From mailman-bounces@core3.amsl.com Fri Feb 1 05:50:03 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 914992A3046 for ; Fri, 1 Feb 2008 05:49:02 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.589 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.589 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.010, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from core3.amsl.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NxTyymkB54h9 for ; Fri, 1 Feb 2008 05:49:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB19C294318 for ; Fri, 1 Feb 2008 05:25:13 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: ietf.org mailing list memberships reminder From: mailman-owner@ietf.org To: ltru-archive@megatron.ietf.org X-No-Archive: yes Message-ID: Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2008 05:04:21 -0800 Precedence: bulk X-BeenThere: mailman@core3.amsl.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 List-Id: X-List-Administrivia: yes Sender: mailman-bounces@core3.amsl.com Errors-To: mailman-bounces@core3.amsl.com This is a reminder, sent out once a month, about your ietf.org mailing list memberships. It includes your subscription info and how to use it to change it or unsubscribe from a list. You can visit the URLs to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. In addition to the URL interfaces, you can also use email to make such changes. For more info, send a message to the '-request' address of the list (for example, mailman-request@ietf.org) containing just the word 'help' in the message body, and an email message will be sent to you with instructions. If you have questions, problems, comments, etc, send them to mailman-owner@ietf.org. Thanks! http://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ltru/ltru-archive%40megatron.ietf.org From mailman-bounces@core3.amsl.com Fri Feb 1 05:51:31 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08E2328D4BA for ; Fri, 1 Feb 2008 05:49:50 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.589 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.589 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.010, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from core3.amsl.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mCsvp+ToOvfU for ; Fri, 1 Feb 2008 05:49:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F780296016 for ; Fri, 1 Feb 2008 05:25:21 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: ietf.org mailing list memberships reminder From: mailman-owner@ietf.org To: ltru-archive@megatron.ietf.org X-No-Archive: yes Message-ID: Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2008 05:04:22 -0800 Precedence: bulk X-BeenThere: mailman@core3.amsl.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 List-Id: X-List-Administrivia: yes Sender: mailman-bounces@core3.amsl.com Errors-To: mailman-bounces@core3.amsl.com This is a reminder, sent out once a month, about your ietf.org mailing list memberships. It includes your subscription info and how to use it to change it or unsubscribe from a list. You can visit the URLs to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. In addition to the URL interfaces, you can also use email to make such changes. For more info, send a message to the '-request' address of the list (for example, mailman-request@ietf.org) containing just the word 'help' in the message body, and an email message will be sent to you with instructions. If you have questions, problems, comments, etc, send them to mailman-owner@ietf.org. Thanks! http://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ltru/ltru-archive%40megatron.ietf.org From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Fri Feb 1 20:56:37 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8336428C241; Fri, 1 Feb 2008 20:56:37 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.457 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.457 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_50=0.001, HELO_EQ_ADELPHIA=0.456] Received: from core3.amsl.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id E4otcon6FehM; Fri, 1 Feb 2008 20:56:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5BB73A6821; Fri, 1 Feb 2008 20:56:36 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 811693A6842 for ; Fri, 1 Feb 2008 20:56:35 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from core3.amsl.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CMW6VzXrmRwF for ; Fri, 1 Feb 2008 20:56:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from mta13.adelphia.net (mta13.adelphia.net [68.168.78.44]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 728D13A6821 for ; Fri, 1 Feb 2008 20:56:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from DGBP7M81 ([76.167.184.182]) by mta13.adelphia.net (InterMail vM.6.01.05.02 201-2131-123-102-20050715) with SMTP id <20080202045806.ERYI15797.mta13.adelphia.net@DGBP7M81> for ; Fri, 1 Feb 2008 23:58:06 -0500 Message-ID: <003501c86558$321a7020$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> From: "Doug Ewell" To: "LTRU Working Group" References: Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 20:58:04 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 Subject: Re: [Ltru] Principles of Operation X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org S2VudCBLYXJsc3NvbiA8a2VudCBkb3Qga2FybHNzb24xNCBhdCBjb21oZW0gZG90IHNlPiByZXBs aWVkIHRvIEpvaG4gCkNvd2FuLCB3aG8gYWxyZWFkeSBhbnN3ZXJlZCB0aGVzZSBxdWVzdGlvbnMg YnV0IGRpZCBub3QgY2l0ZSBjaGFwdGVyIGFuZCAKdmVyc2U6Cgo+PiBJZiBJU08gNjM5IGRlY2lk ZXMgdG8gbWVyZ2UgdHdvIGxhbmd1YWdlcywgd2UgYXJlbid0IGdvaW5nIHRvIGZvbGxvdzsgCj4+ IHdlJ2xsIGp1c3QgYWRkIHRoZSBuZXcgbWVyZ2VkIGNvZGUsIGFuZCBrZWVwIHRoZSB0d28gY29k ZXMgdGhleSAKPj4gcmV0aXJlLgo+Cj4gVGhleSBzdXJlbHkgbXVzdCBiZSBrZXB0IChpZiB0aGV5 IGV2ZXIgZ290IGluIHRvIGJlZ2luIHdpdGgpLCBidXQgSSBkbyAKPiBob3BlIHRoYXQsIGJ5IDYz OS0zIFJBLCBjb2RlcyB0aGF0IGJlY29tZSAicmV0aXJlZCIgYXJlIAo+ICJhdXRvbWF0aWNhbGx5 IiBkZXByZWNhdGVkIGluIExTUi4gSSdtIG5vdCBzdXJlIGlmIGFueSBuZXcgdGV4dCBpbiAKPiA0 NjQ2YmlzIGlzIG5lZWRlZCB0byBzYXkgdGhhdCBtb3JlIGV4cGxpY2l0bHkuCgpEcmFmdC00NjQ2 YmlzLTExLCBzZWN0aW9uIDMuNCwgaXRlbSAxMyBjb3ZlcnMgdGhpcy4gIEkgaGF2ZSB0byBhZG1p dCAKSm9obidzIHJlc3BvbnNlIHN1cnByaXNlZCBtZSBhdCBmaXJzdCByZWFkaW5nOiBzYXlpbmcg d2UgImtlZXAiIHRoZW0gCmRpZG4ndCBzaG91dCAiZGVwcmVjYXRpb24iIHRvIG1lLgoKPiBJZiBh IDYzOS0zIGNvZGUgaXMgInJldGlyZWQiIGFscmVhZHkgYmVmb3JlIDQ2NDViaXMgaXMgc3VibWl0 dGVkIGluIAo+IGZpbmFsIGZvcm0sIGl0IHNob3VsZCBub3QgYmUgcGFydCBvZiA0NjQ1YmlzLiBJ IHVuZGVyc3RhbmQgdGhhdCAKPiBjdXJyZW50IGRyYWZ0cyBhcmUgY29uc3RydWN0ZWQgd2l0aG91 dCBhbHJlYWR5IHJldGlyZWQgIm5ldyIgY29kZXMuCgpEcmFmdC00NjQ1YmlzLTAzLCBzZWN0aW9u IDIuMSBjb3ZlcnMgdGhpczogdGhlIHJldGlyZWQgY29kZSBlbGVtZW50cyBhcmUgCm5vdCBjb25z aWRlcmVkIHRvIGJlICJpbiIgNjM5LTMuICBJIHByb2JhYmx5IG5lZWQgdG8gbWFrZSB0aGF0IGNs ZWFyZXIuCgpJIGhvcGUgdGhlIGRlZmF1bHQgYWN0aW9uIGZvciBhbGwgTFRSVSBwYXJ0aWNpcGFu dHMsIHdoZW4gcXVlc3Rpb25zIGxpa2UgCnRoaXMgY29tZSB1cCwgd2lsbCBiZSB0byBjaGVjayB0 aGUgZHJhZnRzIGZpcnN0LiAgQWxsIGJhc2ljIHF1ZXN0aW9ucyBvZiAKdGhpcyBzb3J0IHNob3Vs ZCBiZSBpbiBvbmUgZHJhZnQgb3IgdGhlIG90aGVyLCBhbmQgaWYgdGhleSBhcmUgbm90LCB3ZSAK bmVlZCB0byBhZGQgdGhlbS4gIElmIHdlJ3JlIG5vdCByZWFkaW5nIHRocm91Z2ggdGhlIGRyYWZ0 cyBwcmV0dHkgCnRob3JvdWdobHkgYnkgbm93LCB3ZSBhcmVuJ3QgZXZlbiBnb2luZyB0byBtYWtl IHRoZSBjby1jaGFpcnMnIG5ldywgCmltcHJvdmVkIG1pbGVzdG9uZSBvZiBNYXJjaCBmb3IgSUVU RiBMYXN0IENhbGwgKHdoaWNoIEJUVyBpcyBzdGlsbCBub3QgCnBvc3RlZCBvbiB0aGUgY2hhcnRl ciBwYWdlKS4KCi0tCkRvdWcgRXdlbGwgICogIEZ1bGxlcnRvbiwgQ2FsaWZvcm5pYSwgVVNBICAq ICBSRkMgNDY0NSAgKiAgVVROICMxNApodHRwOi8vd3d3LmV3ZWxsaWMub3JnCmh0dHA6Ly93d3cx LmlldGYub3JnL2h0bWwuY2hhcnRlcnMvbHRydS1jaGFydGVyLmh0bWwKaHR0cDovL3d3dy5hbHZl c3RyYW5kLm5vL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vaWV0Zi1sYW5ndWFnZXMgIMuGCgoKCl9fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fCkx0cnUgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0 Ckx0cnVAaWV0Zi5vcmcKaHR0cDovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL2x0cnUK From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Fri Feb 1 21:55:26 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 887B53A698B; 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Fri, 1 Feb 2008 21:55:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from DGBP7M81 ([76.167.184.182]) by mta9.adelphia.net (InterMail vM.6.01.05.02 201-2131-123-102-20050715) with SMTP id <20080202055656.LAK5295.mta9.adelphia.net@DGBP7M81> for ; Sat, 2 Feb 2008 00:56:56 -0500 Message-ID: <004b01c86560$6a805440$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> From: "Doug Ewell" To: "LTRU Working Group" Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 21:56:54 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 Subject: [Ltru] Proposed wording for 639-3 items already retired X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org SSB3cm90ZToKCj4gRHJhZnQtNDY0NWJpcy0wMywgc2VjdGlvbiAyLjEgY292ZXJzIHRoaXM6IHRo ZSByZXRpcmVkIGNvZGUgZWxlbWVudHMgCj4gYXJlIG5vdCBjb25zaWRlcmVkIHRvIGJlICJpbiIg NjM5LTMuICBJIHByb2JhYmx5IG5lZWQgdG8gbWFrZSB0aGF0IAo+IGNsZWFyZXIuCgpQcm9wb3Nl ZCB3b3JkaW5nIGZvciBTZWN0aW9uIDIuMSBvZiBkcmFmdC00NjQ1YmlzLCBpbW1lZGlhdGVseSBm b2xsb3dpbmcgCnRoZSB0aHJlZSBidWxsZXQgcG9pbnRzOgoKIkxhbmd1YWdlIGNvZGUgZWxlbWVu dHMgdGhhdCB3ZXJlIGFscmVhZHkgcmV0aXJlZCBpbiBbSVNPNjM5LTNdIHByaW9yIHRvIApJRVNH IGFwcHJvdmFsIG9mIHRoaXMgbWVtbyB3ZXJlIG5vdCBsaXN0ZWQgaW4gdGhlc2UgZmlsZXMsIGFu ZCAKY29uc2VxdWVudGx5IHdlcmUgbm90IGNvbnNpZGVyZWQgaW4gdGhpcyB1cGRhdGUuIgoKLS0K RG91ZyBFd2VsbCAgKiAgRnVsbGVydG9uLCBDYWxpZm9ybmlhLCBVU0EgICogIFJGQyA0NjQ1ICAq ICBVVE4gIzE0Cmh0dHA6Ly93d3cuZXdlbGxpYy5vcmcKaHR0cDovL3d3dzEuaWV0Zi5vcmcvaHRt bC5jaGFydGVycy9sdHJ1LWNoYXJ0ZXIuaHRtbApodHRwOi8vd3d3LmFsdmVzdHJhbmQubm8vbWFp bG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9pZXRmLWxhbmd1YWdlcyAgy4YKCl9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fCkx0cnUgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0Ckx0cnVAaWV0Zi5vcmcK aHR0cDovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL2x0cnUK From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Sat Feb 2 11:48:44 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F1A63A6A9D; Sat, 2 Feb 2008 11:48:44 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.977 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.977 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=1] Received: from core3.amsl.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wEwY+MnHN0jZ; Sat, 2 Feb 2008 11:48:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FB6C3A696F; Sat, 2 Feb 2008 11:48:39 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18A503A696F for ; Sat, 2 Feb 2008 11:48:38 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from core3.amsl.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7v1ApYiK+Ubl for ; Sat, 2 Feb 2008 11:48:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from wx-out-0506.google.com (wx-out-0506.google.com [66.249.82.229]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E64953A6AC7 for ; Sat, 2 Feb 2008 11:47:08 -0800 (PST) Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id s8so1634941wxc.31 for ; Sat, 02 Feb 2008 11:48:45 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.142.242.8 with SMTP id p8mr2866943wfh.142.1201981723985; Sat, 02 Feb 2008 11:48:43 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.143.49.2 with HTTP; Sat, 2 Feb 2008 11:48:43 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <30b660a20802021148r1ddfb5e6y5278e0e9d0f1a6b4@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2008 11:48:43 -0800 From: "Mark Davis" To: "Doug Ewell" In-Reply-To: <004b01c86560$6a805440$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <004b01c86560$6a805440$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> X-Google-Sender-Auth: e84b4dc6d1fb12a1 Cc: LTRU Working Group Subject: Re: [Ltru] Proposed wording for 639-3 items already retired X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1636814095==" Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org --===============1636814095== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; 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charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru --===============1636814095==-- From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 6 10:12:52 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AC6E3A70AF; Wed, 6 Feb 2008 10:12:52 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.332 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.332 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.331, BAYES_50=0.001] Received: from core3.amsl.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.ietf.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id whBNpPCRLAqd; Wed, 6 Feb 2008 10:12:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54EC73A7041; Wed, 6 Feb 2008 10:12:51 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC9953A7041 for ; Wed, 6 Feb 2008 10:12:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from core3.amsl.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.ietf.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TzIygMDuYr-0 for ; Wed, 6 Feb 2008 10:12:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from elasmtp-scoter.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-scoter.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.67]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E87953A7032 for ; Wed, 6 Feb 2008 10:12:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from [64.105.35.169] (helo=oemcomputer) by elasmtp-scoter.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1JMomp-0002Fl-W7 for ltru@ietf.org; Wed, 06 Feb 2008 13:14:20 -0500 Message-ID: <002001c868ec$23e463c0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> From: "Randy Presuhn" To: "LTRU Working Group" Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 10:14:39 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-ELNK-Trace: 4488c18417c9426da92b9037bc8bcf44d4c20f6b8d69d8885d2a9c731cc8911725f2bc72d64e73a3ea1771e77b82544c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 64.105.35.169 Subject: [Ltru] ltru mailing list test X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Hi - test, please ignore Randy, as list admin _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Fri Feb 8 12:15:04 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CE6028C52D; Fri, 8 Feb 2008 12:15:04 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.584 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.584 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.015, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from core3.amsl.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.ietf.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Oq0x9fm6t3e1; Fri, 8 Feb 2008 12:15:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C14528C4BC; Fri, 8 Feb 2008 12:15:03 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@ietf.org Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: by core3.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 0) id 9B25D28C416; Fri, 8 Feb 2008 12:15:01 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: i-d-announce@ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Message-Id: <20080208201501.9B25D28C416@core3.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 12:15:01 -0800 (PST) Cc: ltru@ietf.org Subject: [Ltru] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ltru-4645bis-04.txt X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Language Tag Registry Update Working Group of the IETF. Title : Update to the Language Subtag Registry Author(s) : D. Ewell Filename : draft-ietf-ltru-4645bis-04.txt Pages : 904 Date : 2008-2-8 This memo defines the procedure used to update the IANA Language Subtag Registry in conjunction with the publication of RFC 4646bis [RFC EDITOR NOTE: replace with actual RFC number], for use in forming tags for identifying languages. As an Internet-Draft, it also contained a complete replacement of the contents of the Registry to be used by IANA in updating it. To prevent confusion, this material was removed before publication. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ltru-4645bis-04.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-ltru-4645bis-04.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ltru-4645bis-04.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2008-2-8120125.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ltru-4645bis-04.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-ltru-4645bis-04.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2008-2-8120125.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru --NextPart-- From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Fri Feb 8 16:39:06 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D90283A6C33; Fri, 8 Feb 2008 16:39:06 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.949 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.949 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.650, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from core3.amsl.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.ietf.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hhHnGodkMtdG; Fri, 8 Feb 2008 16:39:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18E9F28C6AF; Fri, 8 Feb 2008 16:39:06 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 135583A6BF8 for ; Fri, 8 Feb 2008 16:39:04 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from core3.amsl.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.ietf.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uAgf35KTZtMH for ; Fri, 8 Feb 2008 16:39:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.66]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4616E3A6BCC for ; Fri, 8 Feb 2008 16:39:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from [68.165.6.185] (helo=oemcomputer) by elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1JNdlf-0002XW-OD for ltru@ietf.org; Fri, 08 Feb 2008 19:40:32 -0500 Message-ID: <002601c86ab4$6f974020$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> From: "Randy Presuhn" To: "LTRU Working Group" Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 16:40:57 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-ELNK-Trace: 4488c18417c9426da92b9037bc8bcf44d4c20f6b8d69d8885d2a9c731cc891179d62f70782b78a8e5916ebdbee2298db350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 68.165.6.185 Subject: [Ltru] Begin LTRU WG last call on 4646bis and 4645bis X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Hi - After consulting with our document editors, my co-chair, and our Area Director, as ltru co-chair I'm pleased to announce the start of working group last call on two documents: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ltru-4646bis-11.txt http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ltru-4645bis-04.txt This will be a two-week WG last call, ending on February 22. In order to maintain some semblance of sanity PLEASE: 1) group your *purely* editorial comments into a single message 2) technical comments should be posted with *ONE* issue per message 3) the subject line should identify the document (e.g. 4646bis) 4) the subject line should uniquely identify the issue 5) if there is an issue which you believe has not been satisfactorily resolved, or needs to be reconsidered in light of experience, NOW is the time to speak up! 6) comments of the form "I've read this document and have no problems with it" are also helpful. 7) in discussing comments, if a new issue arises, USE A NEW SUBJECT LINE Please post your comments to to ltru@ietf.org February 25 is the i-d cutoff. We hope to be able to issue updated drafts reflecting the working group last call comments before then. Depending on the nature of the comments and the edits, at that time we will either issue a second last call, to end March 17 (extended due to the IETF meeting in Philadelphia), or hand the documents to our ADs. Randy ltru co-chair _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Fri Feb 8 17:09:26 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C0E228C6AF; Fri, 8 Feb 2008 17:09:26 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -17.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-17.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_DEF_WHITELIST=-15] Received: from core3.amsl.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.ietf.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Z-m-vLvuw7WX; Fri, 8 Feb 2008 17:09:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C4DD28C758; Fri, 8 Feb 2008 17:09:25 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFFEA28C758 for ; Fri, 8 Feb 2008 17:09:23 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from core3.amsl.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.ietf.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id loI9nvLYPkND for ; Fri, 8 Feb 2008 17:09:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from rsmtp1.corp.yahoo.com (rsmtp1.corp.yahoo.com [207.126.228.149]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C566128C6AF for ; Fri, 8 Feb 2008 17:09:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.72.78.43] (snvvpn2-10-72-78-c43.corp.yahoo.com [10.72.78.43]) by rsmtp1.corp.yahoo.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/y.rout) with ESMTP id m191Aklh041479; Fri, 8 Feb 2008 17:10:46 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <47ACFD96.9020807@yahoo-inc.com> Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2008 17:10:46 -0800 From: Addison Phillips User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Randy Presuhn References: <002601c86ab4$6f974020$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> In-Reply-To: <002601c86ab4$6f974020$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> Cc: LTRU Working Group Subject: Re: [Ltru] Begin LTRU WG last call on 4646bis and 4645bis X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org > After consulting with our document editors, I don't recall seeing a note from you recently, but I'll go back and look for it. Shouldn't I submit draft-12, with its one or two edits first? Addison -- Addison Phillips Globalization Architect -- Yahoo! Inc. Chair -- W3C Internationalization Core WG Internationalization is an architecture. It is not a feature. Randy Presuhn wrote: > Hi - > > After consulting with our document editors, my co-chair, and our > Area Director, as ltru co-chair I'm pleased to announce the start > of working group last call on two documents: > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ltru-4646bis-11.txt > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ltru-4645bis-04.txt > > This will be a two-week WG last call, ending on February 22. > In order to maintain some semblance of sanity PLEASE: > 1) group your *purely* editorial comments into a single message > 2) technical comments should be posted with *ONE* issue per message > 3) the subject line should identify the document (e.g. 4646bis) > 4) the subject line should uniquely identify the issue > 5) if there is an issue which you believe has not been satisfactorily > resolved, or needs to be reconsidered in light of experience, > NOW is the time to speak up! > 6) comments of the form "I've read this document and have no problems > with it" are also helpful. > 7) in discussing comments, if a new issue arises, USE A NEW SUBJECT > LINE > > Please post your comments to to ltru@ietf.org > > February 25 is the i-d cutoff. We hope to be able to issue updated > drafts reflecting the working group last call comments before then. > Depending on the nature of the comments and the edits, at that time > we will either issue a second last call, to end March 17 (extended > due to the IETF meeting in Philadelphia), or hand the documents to > our ADs. > > Randy > ltru co-chair > > _______________________________________________ > Ltru mailing list > Ltru@ietf.org > http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Fri Feb 8 17:34:29 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E429028C7F3; Fri, 8 Feb 2008 17:34:29 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.258 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.258 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.341, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from core3.amsl.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.ietf.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ugjthMA9Rc1l; Fri, 8 Feb 2008 17:34:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3811228C80E; Fri, 8 Feb 2008 17:34:25 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9910A28C870 for ; Fri, 8 Feb 2008 17:34:23 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from core3.amsl.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.ietf.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dkC8mkGgDZ0m for ; Fri, 8 Feb 2008 17:34:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.66]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC4E828C8B2 for ; Fri, 8 Feb 2008 17:33:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from [68.165.6.185] (helo=oemcomputer) by elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1JNecP-0007ls-6q for ltru@ietf.org; Fri, 08 Feb 2008 20:35:01 -0500 Message-ID: <000401c86abc$0b9b9280$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> From: "Randy Presuhn" To: "LTRU Working Group" References: <002601c86ab4$6f974020$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> <47ACFD96.9020807@yahoo-inc.com> Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 17:35:24 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-ELNK-Trace: 4488c18417c9426da92b9037bc8bcf44d4c20f6b8d69d8885d2a9c731cc891172ad14229b222181587155fffa00e5b88350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 68.165.6.185 Subject: Re: [Ltru] Begin LTRU WG last call on 4646bis and 4645bis X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Hi - > From: "Addison Phillips" > To: "Randy Presuhn" > Cc: "LTRU Working Group" > Sent: Friday, February 08, 2008 5:10 PM > Subject: Re: [Ltru] Begin LTRU WG last call on 4646bis and 4645bis > > > After consulting with our document editors, > > I don't recall seeing a note from you recently, but I'll go back and > look for it. A short while ago I received a NDN for you. Sorry, I assumed you'd seen our conversation. > Shouldn't I submit draft-12, with its one or two edits first? No. If it's just one or two (or even a small handful of) edits, let's treat them individually as WGLC comments. Randy _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Fri Feb 8 19:23:57 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC1DD28C80E; Fri, 8 Feb 2008 19:23:57 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.682 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.682 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.601, BAYES_40=-0.185, FAKE_REPLY_C=2.012, HELO_EQ_ADELPHIA=0.456] Received: from core3.amsl.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.ietf.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aovigCFbYPHD; Fri, 8 Feb 2008 19:23:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2644028C687; Fri, 8 Feb 2008 19:23:57 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCD3028C67C for ; Fri, 8 Feb 2008 19:23:55 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from core3.amsl.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.ietf.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tdYEt65IOAdM for ; Fri, 8 Feb 2008 19:23:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from mta13.adelphia.net (mta13.adelphia.net [68.168.78.44]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB5D628C687 for ; Fri, 8 Feb 2008 19:23:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from DGBP7M81 ([76.167.184.182]) by mta13.adelphia.net (InterMail vM.6.01.05.02 201-2131-123-102-20050715) with SMTP id <20080209032522.QAJS15797.mta13.adelphia.net@DGBP7M81> for ; Fri, 8 Feb 2008 22:25:22 -0500 Message-ID: <001f01c86acb$67eefcc0$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> From: "Doug Ewell" To: "LTRU Working Group" Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 19:25:22 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 Subject: Re: [Ltru] Begin LTRU WG last call on 4646bis and 4645bis X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org UmFuZHkgd3JvdGU6Cgo+IEFmdGVyIGNvbnN1bHRpbmcgd2l0aCBvdXIgZG9jdW1lbnQgZWRpdG9y cywgbXkgY28tY2hhaXIsIGFuZCBvdXIKPiBBcmVhIERpcmVjdG9yLCBhcyBsdHJ1IGNvLWNoYWly IEknbSBwbGVhc2VkIHRvIGFubm91bmNlIHRoZSBzdGFydAo+IG9mIHdvcmtpbmcgZ3JvdXAgbGFz dCBjYWxsIG9uIHR3byBkb2N1bWVudHM6Cj4gaHR0cDovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9pbnRlcm5ldC1k cmFmdHMvZHJhZnQtaWV0Zi1sdHJ1LTQ2NDZiaXMtMTEudHh0Cj4gaHR0cDovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9y Zy9pbnRlcm5ldC1kcmFmdHMvZHJhZnQtaWV0Zi1sdHJ1LTQ2NDViaXMtMDQudHh0Cj4KPiBUaGlz IHdpbGwgYmUgYSB0d28td2VlayBXRyBsYXN0IGNhbGwsIGVuZGluZyBvbiBGZWJydWFyeSAyMi4K CkkgdGhpbmsgdGhlIGlldGYtbGFuZ3VhZ2VzIGxpc3Qgc2hvdWxkIGJlIGNvcGllZCBvbiB0aGlz IGFzIHdlbGwuCgotLQpEb3VnIEV3ZWxsICAqICBGdWxsZXJ0b24sIENhbGlmb3JuaWEsIFVTQSAg KiAgUkZDIDQ2NDUgICogIFVUTiAjMTQKaHR0cDovL3d3dy5ld2VsbGljLm9yZwpodHRwOi8vd3d3 MS5pZXRmLm9yZy9odG1sLmNoYXJ0ZXJzL2x0cnUtY2hhcnRlci5odG1sCmh0dHA6Ly93d3cuYWx2 ZXN0cmFuZC5uby9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL2lldGYtbGFuZ3VhZ2VzICDLhiAKCl9fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fCkx0cnUgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0 Ckx0cnVAaWV0Zi5vcmcKaHR0cDovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL2x0cnUK From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Sun Feb 10 09:04:22 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 172B43A68A9; Sun, 10 Feb 2008 09:04:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=2.241, BAYES_00=-2.599, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_EQ_ADELPHIA=0.456] Received: from core3.amsl.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.ietf.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hFYT1B0+C7En; Sun, 10 Feb 2008 09:04:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 735573A68FF; Sun, 10 Feb 2008 09:04:20 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE8203A6832 for ; Sun, 10 Feb 2008 09:04:18 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from core3.amsl.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.ietf.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EKGPBqAgQL-t for ; Sun, 10 Feb 2008 09:04:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from mta9.adelphia.net (mta9.adelphia.net [68.168.78.199]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21A433A691D for ; Sun, 10 Feb 2008 09:04:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from DGBP7M81 ([76.167.184.182]) by mta9.adelphia.net (InterMail vM.6.01.05.02 201-2131-123-102-20050715) with SMTP id <20080210063909.FWXM1279.mta9.adelphia.net@DGBP7M81>; Sun, 10 Feb 2008 01:39:09 -0500 Message-ID: <013201c86baf$a428df50$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> From: "Doug Ewell" To: "LTRU Working Group" Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2008 22:39:08 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 Subject: [Ltru] WGLC: remove new region subtags from 4646bis/4645bis (long) X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org VGhpcyBpcyBhIHRlY2huaWNhbCBjb21tZW50IG9uIGJvdGggZHJhZnQtNDY0NmJpcyBhbmQsIGJ5 IGltcGxpY2F0aW9uLCAKZHJhZnQtNDY0NWJpcy4KClN1bW1hcnk6CkkgcHJvcG9zZSB0aGF0IHRo ZSBuZXcgcmVnaW9uIHN1YnRhZ3MgYmFzZWQgb24gSVNPIDMxNjYtMSAiZXhjZXB0aW9uYWxseSAK cmVzZXJ2ZWQiIGNvZGUgZWxlbWVudHMsIGFuZCB0aGUgd29yZGluZyB0aGF0IGF1dGhvcml6ZXMg dGhlbSwgYmUgCnJlbW92ZWQgZnJvbSBib3RoIGRyYWZ0cy4KCkRpc2N1c3Npb246ClRoaXMgdG9w aWMgd2FzIGRpc2N1c3NlZCBhdCBzaWduaWZpY2FudCBsZW5ndGggZHVyaW5nIE5vdmVtYmVyIDIw MDcuIApNb3N0IG9mIHdoYXQgSSBhbSB3cml0aW5nIGhlcmUgaXMgYSBzdW1tYXJ5IG9mIHdoYXQg aGFzIGdvbmUgYmVmb3JlLCAKcmVwYWNrYWdlZCBmb3IgTGFzdCBDYWxsLiAgQW4gZWFybGllciBh cmd1bWVudCwgd2hpY2ggaXRzZWxmIGNvbnRhaW5zIApsaW5rcyB0byBzdGlsbCBlYXJsaWVyIGFy Z3VtZW50cywgaXMgYXQgCmh0dHA6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbC1hcmNoaXZlL3dlYi9sdHJ1 L2N1cnJlbnQvbXNnMDg4NTEuaHRtbCAuCgpIaXN0b3JpY2FsbHksIFJGQyA0NjQ2IGFuZCBpdHMg 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bmZvL2x0cnUK From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Sun Feb 10 14:41:47 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12C1D3A6948; Sun, 10 Feb 2008 14:41:47 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.437 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.437 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id C7ULhn+FtcvT; Sun, 10 Feb 2008 14:41:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19C6E3A686B; Sun, 10 Feb 2008 14:41:46 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 959BD3A686B for ; Sun, 10 Feb 2008 14:41:44 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7+72XYQfwq2U for ; Sun, 10 Feb 2008 14:41:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from earth.ccil.org (unknown [192.190.237.11]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B4683A6803 for ; Sun, 10 Feb 2008 14:41:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from cowan by earth.ccil.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1JOKtA-0004tK-64; Sun, 10 Feb 2008 17:43:08 -0500 Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 17:43:08 -0500 To: Doug Ewell Message-ID: <20080210224307.GF16774@mercury.ccil.org> References: <013201c86baf$a428df50$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <013201c86baf$a428df50$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11) From: John Cowan Cc: LTRU Working Group Subject: Re: [Ltru] WGLC: remove new region subtags from 4646bis/4645bis (long) X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Doug Ewell scripsit: > I propose that the new region subtags based on ISO 3166-1 "exceptionally > reserved" code elements, and the wording that authorizes them, be > removed from both drafts. Just as a reminder, the seven code elements at issue are: AC (Ascension Island) CP (Clipperton Island) DG (Diego Garcia) EA (Ceuta and Melilla) EU (European Union) IC (Canary Islands) TA (Tristan da Cunha) Loosely speaking, AC, DG, and TA are attached to the U.K., CP to France, EA and IC to Spain, and EU is sui generis. There is also FX, which is already in the registry, and UK, which is excluded by rule. > The primary reason for adding the exceptionally reserved ("ER") code > elements was apparently to allow 'EU' to be used with the meaning > "European Union," not for language tagging per se, but in CLDR and > other works that are not related to language tagging. The other ER > code elements, such as 'DG' for "Diego Garcia" and 'EA' for "Ceuta > [and] Melilla," were ancillary to this objective; they were added > in preference to cherry-picking 'EU' out of the list of ER codes > (a preference I certainly shared). True enough historically; however, I think the case for adding the six is better than the case for adding EU. AC and TA are administratively part of SH, but geographically and linguistically they are on a par with the eleven other ordinary British overseas territories, each of which has an officially assigned 3166 code element (viz. AI, BM, FK, GI, GS, IO, KY, MS, PN, TC, VI). And if AC and CP have no native inhabitants, no more does GS (South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands). The Sovereign Base Areas in Cyprus are military bases, and the British Antarctic Territory is not internationally recognized, which probably accounts for their lack of code elements. In short, I think that for six of the seven elements at issue, their status as exceptionally reserved is more or less accidental and ought to be ignored by us. The ones with native inhabitants do have special varieties of their official languages, and there is no reason why en-AI should be privileged over en-TA. (Note that these en-* varieties are distinct from the creoles also spoken in these places.) Given that, and given that someone wants EU and there is no reason to cherry-pick it out, I continue in favor of the seven code elements. > Making an explicit change to RFC 4646bis to add the ISO 3166-1 ER code > elements presents the impression that they must fulfill a particular > language tagging need, just as the act of adding the UN codes fulfilled > such a need. However, no such need has been demonstrated *for language > tagging*, only for locale designation and ease of cross-checking between > standards. John Cowan mentioned that "English as spoken on Tristan da > Cunha" is a recognized variety of English, but there is no actual > evidence of a need to tag this variety. Since when have we demanded actual evidence of this sort? It has always sufficed to present actual evidence of the existence of a variety. > Claims of a requirement to tag "European Union English" as distinct from > "English as spoken in {Northern, Southern, Western, Eastern} Europe" > (all of which could be implemented with numeric UN-based region subtags) > have been based on the notion of an EU "bureaucratese" which has not > been shown to exist, at least not in any way beyond ordinary > bureaucratese, and which in any case would not be truly region-based and > thus not appropriate for a region subtag. A variant subtag is the > normal mechanism for tagging specialized jargon. I agree. -- John Cowan cowan@ccil.org http://ccil.org/~cowan If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants were standing on my shoulders. --Hal Abelson _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Sun Feb 10 14:56:42 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78C9E3A6890; Sun, 10 Feb 2008 14:56:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.915 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.915 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.270, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, HTML_MESSAGE=1, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fy8JjgVrbqWv; Sun, 10 Feb 2008 14:56:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DA9F3A686B; Sun, 10 Feb 2008 14:56:41 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AED0C3A686B for ; Sun, 10 Feb 2008 14:56:39 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9AGkJDNwCtfa for ; Sun, 10 Feb 2008 14:56:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from py-out-1112.google.com (py-out-1112.google.com [64.233.166.183]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58AD63A6854 for ; Sun, 10 Feb 2008 14:56:38 -0800 (PST) Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id x19so4601085pyg.24 for ; Sun, 10 Feb 2008 14:58:04 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.142.212.19 with SMTP id k19mr8082642wfg.154.1202684283866; Sun, 10 Feb 2008 14:58:03 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.143.174.8 with HTTP; Sun, 10 Feb 2008 14:58:03 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <30b660a20802101458r4b530665pdacc74944f878dbc@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 14:58:03 -0800 From: "Mark Davis" To: "John Cowan" In-Reply-To: <20080210224307.GF16774@mercury.ccil.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <013201c86baf$a428df50$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> <20080210224307.GF16774@mercury.ccil.org> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 329969b667e18aa9 Cc: Doug Ewell , LTRU Working Group Subject: Re: [Ltru] WGLC: remove new region subtags from 4646bis/4645bis (long) X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0782714329==" Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org --===============0782714329== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_3852_2131300.1202684283837" ------=_Part_3852_2131300.1202684283837 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I agree with John. Mark On Feb 10, 2008 2:43 PM, John Cowan wrote: > Doug Ewell scripsit: > > > I propose that the new region subtags based on ISO 3166-1 "exceptionally > > reserved" code elements, and the wording that authorizes them, be > > removed from both drafts. > > Just as a reminder, the seven code elements at issue are: > > AC (Ascension Island) > CP (Clipperton Island) > DG (Diego Garcia) > EA (Ceuta and Melilla) > EU (European Union) > IC (Canary Islands) > TA (Tristan da Cunha) > > Loosely speaking, AC, DG, and TA are attached to the U.K., CP to France, > EA and IC to Spain, and EU is sui generis. There is also FX, which is > already in the registry, and UK, which is excluded by rule. > > > The primary reason for adding the exceptionally reserved ("ER") code > > elements was apparently to allow 'EU' to be used with the meaning > > "European Union," not for language tagging per se, but in CLDR and > > other works that are not related to language tagging. The other ER > > code elements, such as 'DG' for "Diego Garcia" and 'EA' for "Ceuta > > [and] Melilla," were ancillary to this objective; they were added > > in preference to cherry-picking 'EU' out of the list of ER codes > > (a preference I certainly shared). > > True enough historically; however, I think the case for adding the six is > better than the case for adding EU. AC and TA are administratively part > of SH, but geographically and linguistically they are on a par with the > eleven other ordinary British overseas territories, each of which has an > officially assigned 3166 code element (viz. AI, BM, FK, GI, GS, IO, KY, > MS, PN, TC, VI). And if AC and CP have no native inhabitants, no more > does GS (South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands). The Sovereign > Base Areas in Cyprus are military bases, and the British Antarctic > Territory is not internationally recognized, which probably accounts > for their lack of code elements. > > In short, I think that for six of the seven elements at issue, their > status as exceptionally reserved is more or less accidental and ought > to be ignored by us. The ones with native inhabitants do have special > varieties of their official languages, and there is no reason why en-AI > should be privileged over en-TA. (Note that these en-* varieties are > distinct from the creoles also spoken in these places.) > > Given that, and given that someone wants EU and there is no reason to > cherry-pick it out, I continue in favor of the seven code elements. > > > Making an explicit change to RFC 4646bis to add the ISO 3166-1 ER code > > elements presents the impression that they must fulfill a particular > > language tagging need, just as the act of adding the UN codes fulfilled > > such a need. However, no such need has been demonstrated *for language > > tagging*, only for locale designation and ease of cross-checking between > > standards. John Cowan mentioned that "English as spoken on Tristan da > > Cunha" is a recognized variety of English, but there is no actual > > evidence of a need to tag this variety. > > Since when have we demanded actual evidence of this sort? It has always > sufficed to present actual evidence of the existence of a variety. > > > Claims of a requirement to tag "European Union English" as distinct from > > "English as spoken in {Northern, Southern, Western, Eastern} Europe" > > (all of which could be implemented with numeric UN-based region subtags) > > have been based on the notion of an EU "bureaucratese" which has not > > been shown to exist, at least not in any way beyond ordinary > > bureaucratese, and which in any case would not be truly region-based and > > thus not appropriate for a region subtag. A variant subtag is the > > normal mechanism for tagging specialized jargon. > > I agree. > > -- > John Cowan cowan@ccil.org http://ccil.org/~cowan > If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants were standing > on my shoulders. > --Hal Abelson > _______________________________________________ > Ltru mailing list > Ltru@ietf.org > http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru > -- Mark ------=_Part_3852_2131300.1202684283837 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I agree with John.

Mark

On Feb 10, 2008 2:43 PM, John Cowan <cowan@ccil.org> wrote:
Doug Ewell scripsit:

> I propose that the new region subtags based on ISO 3166-1 "exceptionally
> reserved" code elements, and the wording that authorizes them, be
> removed from both drafts.

Just as a reminder, the seven code elements at issue are:

AC (Ascension Island)
CP (Clipperton Island)
DG (Diego Garcia)
EA (Ceuta and Melilla)
EU (European Union)
IC (Canary Islands)
TA (Tristan da Cunha)

Loosely speaking, AC, DG, and TA are attached to the U.K., CP to France,
EA and IC to Spain, and EU is sui generis.  There is also FX, which is
already in the registry, and UK, which is excluded by rule.

> The primary reason for adding the exceptionally reserved ("ER") code
> elements was apparently to allow 'EU' to be used with the meaning
> "European Union," not for language tagging per se, but in CLDR and
> other works that are not related to language tagging.  The other ER
> code elements, such as 'DG' for "Diego Garcia" and 'EA' for "Ceuta
> [and] Melilla," were ancillary to this objective; they were added
> in preference to cherry-picking 'EU' out of the list of ER codes
> (a preference I certainly shared).

True enough historically; however, I think the case for adding the six is
better than the case for adding EU.  AC and TA are administratively part
of SH, but geographically and linguistically they are on a par with the
eleven other ordinary British overseas territories, each of which has an
officially assigned 3166 code element (viz.  AI, BM, FK, GI, GS, IO, KY,
MS, PN, TC, VI).  And if AC and CP have no native inhabitants, no more
does GS (South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands).  The Sovereign
Base Areas in Cyprus are military bases, and the British Antarctic
Territory is not internationally recognized, which probably accounts
for their lack of code elements.

In short, I think that for six of the seven elements at issue, their
status as exceptionally reserved is more or less accidental and ought
to be ignored by us.  The ones with native inhabitants do have special
varieties of their official languages, and there is no reason why en-AI
should be privileged over en-TA.  (Note that these en-* varieties are
distinct from the creoles also spoken in these places.)

Given that, and given that someone wants EU and there is no reason to
cherry-pick it out, I continue in favor of the seven code elements.

> Making an explicit change to RFC 4646bis to add the ISO 3166-1 ER code
> elements presents the impression that they must fulfill a particular
> language tagging need, just as the act of adding the UN codes fulfilled
> such a need.  However, no such need has been demonstrated *for language
> tagging*, only for locale designation and ease of cross-checking between
> standards.  John Cowan mentioned that "English as spoken on Tristan da
> Cunha" is a recognized variety of English, but there is no actual
> evidence of a need to tag this variety.

Since when have we demanded actual evidence of this sort?  It has always
sufficed to present actual evidence of the existence of a variety.

> Claims of a requirement to tag "European Union English" as distinct from
> "English as spoken in {Northern, Southern, Western, Eastern} Europe"
> (all of which could be implemented with numeric UN-based region subtags)
> have been based on the notion of an EU "bureaucratese" which has not
> been shown to exist, at least not in any way beyond ordinary
> bureaucratese, and which in any case would not be truly region-based and
> thus not appropriate for a region subtag.  A variant subtag is the
> normal mechanism for tagging specialized jargon.

I agree.

--
John Cowan  cowan@ccil.org  http://ccil.org/~cowan
If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants were standing
on my shoulders.
       --Hal Abelson
_______________________________________________
Ltru mailing list
Ltru@ietf.org
http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru



--
Mark ------=_Part_3852_2131300.1202684283837-- --===============0782714329== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru --===============0782714329==-- From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Sun Feb 10 17:58:24 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38EDD3A69C2; Sun, 10 Feb 2008 17:58:24 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.054 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.054 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.383, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9Hjny-i4rmca; Sun, 10 Feb 2008 17:58:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D5DC3A684A; Sun, 10 Feb 2008 17:58:23 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4FD03A69AF for ; Sun, 10 Feb 2008 17:58:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id crHC89WOR2X5 for ; Sun, 10 Feb 2008 17:58:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06E0B3A6838 for ; Sun, 10 Feb 2008 17:58:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from [66.167.77.88] (helo=oemcomputer) by elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1JONxR-0004qk-Qq for ltru@ietf.org; Sun, 10 Feb 2008 20:59:46 -0500 Message-ID: <006b01c86c51$d8f2ca00$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> From: "Randy Presuhn" To: "LTRU Working Group" References: <013201c86baf$a428df50$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81><20080210224307.GF16774@mercury.ccil.org> <30b660a20802101458r4b530665pdacc74944f878dbc@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 18:00:15 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-ELNK-Trace: 4488c18417c9426da92b9037bc8bcf44d4c20f6b8d69d8885d2a9c731cc89117dabb1dc1f3fc691da84fa6ac7bf31aaa350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 66.167.77.88 Subject: Re: [Ltru] WGLC: remove new region subtags from 4646bis/4645bis(long) X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Hi - > From: "Mark Davis" > To: "John Cowan" > Cc: "Doug Ewell" ; "LTRU Working Group" > Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2008 2:58 PM > Subject: Re: [Ltru] WGLC: remove new region subtags from 4646bis/4645bis(long) > > I agree with John. > > Mark > > On Feb 10, 2008 2:43 PM, John Cowan wrote: ... > > In short, I think that for six of the seven elements at issue, their > > status as exceptionally reserved is more or less accidental and ought > > to be ignored by us. The ones with native inhabitants do have special > > varieties of their official languages, and there is no reason why en-AI > > should be privileged over en-TA. (Note that these en-* varieties are > > distinct from the creoles also spoken in these places.) > > > > Given that, and given that someone wants EU and there is no reason to > > cherry-pick it out, I continue in favor of the seven code elements. ... As a technical contributor, I agree with John and Mark that it makes sense to include the seven "exceptionally reserved" code elements for purposes of language tagging. I think the question of whether they might also find use in constructing locales or anything else is a red herring as far as this mailing list is concerned. Randy _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Mon Feb 11 01:17:36 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 182FA3A6AEE; Mon, 11 Feb 2008 01:17:36 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.855 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.855 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.418, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eS3BPaRMr2mO; Mon, 11 Feb 2008 01:17:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BA0C3A6AB6; Mon, 11 Feb 2008 01:17:35 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C392B3A6AB6 for ; Mon, 11 Feb 2008 01:17:34 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id S+-7+J0AKW5D for ; Mon, 11 Feb 2008 01:17:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from ch-smtp01.sth.basefarm.net (ch-smtp01.sth.basefarm.net [80.76.149.212]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAD193A695D for ; Mon, 11 Feb 2008 01:17:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from c83-248-84-5.bredband.comhem.se ([83.248.84.5]:3950 helo=wgbgkka02x) by ch-smtp01.sth.basefarm.net with esmtp (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1JOUoS-0000gl-41 for ltru@ietf.org; Mon, 11 Feb 2008 10:18:56 +0100 From: "Kent Karlsson" To: "'LTRU Working Group'" References: <013201c86baf$a428df50$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> <20080210224307.GF16774@mercury.ccil.org> Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 10:18:43 +0100 Message-ID: <016b01c86c8f$20d34920$0554f853@streamserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: AchsNlMzu5Q88zuDQjCwS7fReLFHXgAB7+Fg X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 In-Reply-To: <20080210224307.GF16774@mercury.ccil.org> X-Originating-IP: 83.248.84.5 X-Scan-Result: No virus found in message 1JOUoS-0000gl-41. X-Scan-Signature: ch-smtp01.sth.basefarm.net 1JOUoS-0000gl-41 d2f96113cebe17c987fad9e84ea9da33 Subject: Re: [Ltru] WGLC: remove new region subtags from 4646bis/4645bis(long) X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org John Cowan wrote: > Given that, and given that someone wants EU and there is no reason to > cherry-pick it out, I continue in favor of the seven code elements. I agree (mostly), but see no real reason to exclude "UK". "UK" is a code for a real territory, even though that code has a preferred alias. > > Claims of a requirement to tag "European Union English" as distinct from > > "English as spoken in {Northern, Southern, Western, Eastern} Europe" > > (all of which could be implemented with numeric UN-based region subtags) > > have been based on the notion of an EU "bureaucratese" which has not > > been shown to exist, at least not in any way beyond ordinary > > bureaucratese, and which in any case would not be truly region-based and > > thus not appropriate for a region subtag. A variant subtag is the > > normal mechanism for tagging specialized jargon. > > I agree. I sort of agree, but "bureaucratese" is not the reason to include "EU". (Nor do I think "bureaucratese" is in general a good reason for variant subtags. There may be exceptions.) Language tags and locale designators are so closely related, and the code "EU" is desired for locale designators, that I see no reason to split hairs on this territory code. /kent k _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Mon Feb 11 08:47:34 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 855F73A6CB1; Mon, 11 Feb 2008 08:47:34 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.437 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.437 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QWl+w92DRGt1; Mon, 11 Feb 2008 08:47:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B41BA3A6C8F; Mon, 11 Feb 2008 08:47:33 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 685783A6C55 for ; Mon, 11 Feb 2008 08:47:32 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZMgA1RJ-tYQs for ; Mon, 11 Feb 2008 08:47:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from earth.ccil.org (unknown [192.190.237.11]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B9DC3A6C41 for ; Mon, 11 Feb 2008 08:47:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from cowan by earth.ccil.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1JObpu-0003N1-03; Mon, 11 Feb 2008 11:48:54 -0500 Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 11:48:53 -0500 To: Kent Karlsson Message-ID: <20080211164853.GB9978@mercury.ccil.org> References: <013201c86baf$a428df50$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> <20080210224307.GF16774@mercury.ccil.org> <016b01c86c8f$20d34920$0554f853@streamserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <016b01c86c8f$20d34920$0554f853@streamserve.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11) From: John Cowan Cc: 'LTRU Working Group' Subject: Re: [Ltru] WGLC: remove new region subtags from 4646bis/4645bis(long) X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Kent Karlsson scripsit: > I agree (mostly), but see no real reason to exclude "UK". "UK" > is a code for a real territory, even though that code has a > preferred alias. We don't introduce subtags that have already-existing preferred aliases. > Language tags and locale designators are so closely related, > and the code "EU" is desired for locale designators, I still don't understand why it is so desired. Can someone try again, please? -- On the Semantic Web, it's too hard to prove John Cowan cowan@ccil.org you're not a dog. --Bill de hOra http://www.ccil.org/~cowan _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Mon Feb 11 09:58:22 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA32A3A6D4D; Mon, 11 Feb 2008 09:58:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.131 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.131 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.694, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0WFGr5yGPpeQ; Mon, 11 Feb 2008 09:58:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0099C3A6D07; Mon, 11 Feb 2008 09:58:22 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E89563A6C86 for ; Mon, 11 Feb 2008 09:58:19 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id viTSI9gZHQ+W for ; Mon, 11 Feb 2008 09:58:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.microsoft.com (mail2.microsoft.com [131.107.115.215]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17CFD3A6B61 for ; Mon, 11 Feb 2008 09:58:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from TK5-EXHUB-C101.redmond.corp.microsoft.com (157.54.70.76) by TK5-EXGWY-E802.partners.extranet.microsoft.com (10.251.56.168) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.1.240.5; Mon, 11 Feb 2008 09:59:44 -0800 Received: from NA-EXMSG-C117.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.62.46]) by TK5-EXHUB-C101.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.70.76]) with mapi; Mon, 11 Feb 2008 09:59:44 -0800 From: Peter Constable To: LTRU Working Group Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 09:59:43 -0800 Thread-Topic: [Ltru] WGLC: remove new region subtags from 4646bis/4645bis(long) Thread-Index: AchsUcpNG70Vm8leTFuTtDYh3h0XIAAO09RQ Message-ID: References: <013201c86baf$a428df50$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81><20080210224307.GF16774@mercury.ccil.org> <30b660a20802101458r4b530665pdacc74944f878dbc@mail.gmail.com> <006b01c86c51$d8f2ca00$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> In-Reply-To: <006b01c86c51$d8f2ca00$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [Ltru] WGLC: remove new region subtags from 4646bis/4645bis(long) X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org I have no objection to inclusion of the exceptionally-reserved code elements in 3166-1. Doug mentioned explicit exclusion of the M.49 "Selected economic and other groupings," presumably as though that were an analogous situation to the 3166-1 exceptionally-reserved code elements. I do not find these comparable: As Doug demonstrated, the former are groups of regions/nations that truly have nothing relevant to language in common. In contrast, the latter all denote a contiguous region or political entity, notions which we know *can* be relevant for language tagging. Peter > -----Original Message----- > From: ltru-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ltru-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > Randy Presuhn > Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2008 6:00 PM > To: LTRU Working Group > Subject: Re: [Ltru] WGLC: remove new region subtags from > 4646bis/4645bis(long) > > Hi - > > > From: "Mark Davis" > > To: "John Cowan" > > Cc: "Doug Ewell" ; "LTRU Working Group" > > > Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2008 2:58 PM > > Subject: Re: [Ltru] WGLC: remove new region subtags from > 4646bis/4645bis(long) > > > > I agree with John. > > > > Mark > > > > On Feb 10, 2008 2:43 PM, John Cowan wrote: > ... > > > In short, I think that for six of the seven elements at issue, > their > > > status as exceptionally reserved is more or less accidental and > ought > > > to be ignored by us. The ones with native inhabitants do have > special > > > varieties of their official languages, and there is no reason why > en-AI > > > should be privileged over en-TA. (Note that these en-* varieties > are > > > distinct from the creoles also spoken in these places.) > > > > > > Given that, and given that someone wants EU and there is no reason > to > > > cherry-pick it out, I continue in favor of the seven code elements. > ... > > As a technical contributor, I agree with John and Mark that it makes > sense > to include the seven "exceptionally reserved" code elements for > purposes > of language tagging. I think the question of whether they might also > find use in constructing locales or anything else is a red herring as > far as this mailing list is concerned. > > Randy > > _______________________________________________ > Ltru mailing list > Ltru@ietf.org > http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Mon Feb 11 10:59:28 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 421253A6D69; Mon, 11 Feb 2008 10:59:28 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.706 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.706 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.269, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cNAsx0DiqCZL; Mon, 11 Feb 2008 10:59:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 494233A6D3E; Mon, 11 Feb 2008 10:59:27 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 640B73A6D3E for ; Mon, 11 Feb 2008 10:59:26 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pEAGOLJDYNUi for ; Mon, 11 Feb 2008 10:59:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from ch-smtp01.sth.basefarm.net (ch-smtp01.sth.basefarm.net [80.76.149.212]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 883653A6C69 for ; Mon, 11 Feb 2008 10:59:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from c83-248-91-184.bredband.comhem.se ([83.248.91.184]:4883 helo=wgbgkka02x) by ch-smtp01.sth.basefarm.net with esmtp (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1JOdtX-0005S3-5C; Mon, 11 Feb 2008 20:00:48 +0100 From: "Kent Karlsson" To: "'John Cowan'" References: <013201c86baf$a428df50$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> <20080210224307.GF16774@mercury.ccil.org> <016b01c86c8f$20d34920$0554f853@streamserve.com> <20080211164853.GB9978@mercury.ccil.org> Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 20:00:14 +0100 Message-ID: <019701c86ce0$693abb70$0554f853@streamserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: AchszlVJ5nkTxpicTyWYn5M7H53WnQAD0bdQ X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 In-Reply-To: <20080211164853.GB9978@mercury.ccil.org> X-Originating-IP: 83.248.91.184 X-Scan-Result: No virus found in message 1JOdtX-0005S3-5C. X-Scan-Signature: ch-smtp01.sth.basefarm.net 1JOdtX-0005S3-5C 45c19e33b6c89f61eed21262418aa4ec Cc: 'LTRU Working Group' Subject: Re: [Ltru] WGLC: remove new region subtags from 4646bis/4645bis(long) X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org John Cowan wrote: > > I agree (mostly), but see no real reason to exclude "UK". "UK" > > is a code for a real territory, even though that code has a > > preferred alias. > > We don't introduce subtags that have already-existing > preferred aliases. I don't see time ordering as overwhelmingly critical in a case like this. > > Language tags and locale designators are so closely related, > > and the code "EU" is desired for locale designators, > > I still don't understand why it is so desired. Can someone try > again, please? Locales are often used to get a particular collation order. EOR (European Ordering Rules) was created by CEN to get a common "European" (EU really, as CEN is an EU organisation) ordering. A locale named sv_EU would be for Swedish with EOR collation. I agree that it would not be very commonly used, and would be inappropriate for Swedish-only purposes, but may be useful in an EU context. /kent k _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Mon Feb 11 11:22:30 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68A6A3A6D8A; Mon, 11 Feb 2008 11:22:30 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.518 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.518 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.081, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ax7T6wT6Y8H0; Mon, 11 Feb 2008 11:22:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0F653A6D5E; Mon, 11 Feb 2008 11:22:29 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93F713A698D for ; Mon, 11 Feb 2008 11:22:28 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YKapZczVfIhU for ; Mon, 11 Feb 2008 11:22:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.68]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A26D3A6D5E for ; Mon, 11 Feb 2008 11:22:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from [68.164.242.185] (helo=oemcomputer) by elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1JOeFs-0001vN-Dh for ltru@ietf.org; Mon, 11 Feb 2008 14:23:52 -0500 Message-ID: <001401c86ce3$b5da0780$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> From: "Randy Presuhn" To: "LTRU Working Group" References: <013201c86baf$a428df50$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81><20080210224307.GF16774@mercury.ccil.org><016b01c86c8f$20d34920$0554f853@streamserve.com><20080211164853.GB9978@mercury.ccil.org> <019701c86ce0$693abb70$0554f853@streamserve.com> Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 11:24:23 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-ELNK-Trace: 4488c18417c9426da92b9037bc8bcf44d4c20f6b8d69d8885d2a9c731cc891172166c32edc0ddc9e9245c86fe82a26d5350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 68.164.242.185 Subject: Re: [Ltru] WGLC: remove new region subtags from4646bis/4645bis(long) X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Hi - As a technical contributor... > From: "Kent Karlsson" > To: "'John Cowan'" > Cc: "'LTRU Working Group'" > Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 11:00 AM > Subject: Re: [Ltru] WGLC: remove new region subtags from4646bis/4645bis(long) ... > Locales are often used to get a particular collation order. > EOR (European Ordering Rules) was created by CEN to get a common > "European" (EU really, as CEN is an EU organisation) ordering. > A locale named sv_EU would be for Swedish with EOR collation. > I agree that it would not be very commonly used, and would be > inappropriate for Swedish-only purposes, but may be useful in > an EU context. ... This WG's concern is language tagging, not locales. That a particular subtag might find applicability there is not persuasive. The back-and- forth about EU strikes me as a red herring. The real issue is whether there are any codes in this grouping that look like they'll be useful. I think *that* has already been established. Taken together with the "no cherry- picking" principle, I think the case has already been made. As co chair: Now, if you want to argue that UK should also be added, this really is a separate issue and should be raised in a separate thread. I think we are close to rough consensus on the seven (AC, CP, DG, EA, EU, IC, TA) and would rather not prolong the discussion of them pending a re-hash of UK. Randy _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Mon Feb 11 23:12:46 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79EB828CBD7; Mon, 11 Feb 2008 23:12:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.317 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.317 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.120, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gOBmrMLH2Pv4; Mon, 11 Feb 2008 23:12:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE6F528C0ED; Mon, 11 Feb 2008 23:12:45 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8019F28C0EA for ; Mon, 11 Feb 2008 23:12:44 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VryB+dDjvONz for ; Mon, 11 Feb 2008 23:12:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from mta16.adelphia.net (mta16.mail.adelphia.net [68.168.78.211]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5298B28C0DB for ; Mon, 11 Feb 2008 23:12:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from DGBP7M81 ([76.167.184.182]) by mta16.adelphia.net (InterMail vM.6.01.05.04 201-2131-123-105-20051025) with SMTP id <20080212071407.MTCY17537.mta16.adelphia.net@DGBP7M81> for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 02:14:07 -0500 Message-ID: <005501c86d46$dbd13b80$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> From: "Doug Ewell" To: "LTRU Working Group" References: Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 23:14:07 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 Subject: Re: [Ltru] WGLC: remove new region subtags from 4646bis/4645bis (long) X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org UmFuZHkgUHJlc3VobiA8cmFuZHkgdW5kZXJzY29yZSBwcmVzdWhuIGF0IG1pbmRzcHJpbmcgZG90 IGNvbT4gd3JvdGU6Cgo+IEFzIGEgdGVjaG5pY2FsIGNvbnRyaWJ1dG9yLCBJIGFncmVlIHdpdGgg Sm9obiBhbmQgTWFyayB0aGF0IGl0IG1ha2VzIAo+IHNlbnNlIHRvIGluY2x1ZGUgdGhlIHNldmVu ICJleGNlcHRpb25hbGx5IHJlc2VydmVkIiBjb2RlIGVsZW1lbnRzIGZvciAKPiBwdXJwb3NlcyBv ZiBsYW5ndWFnZSB0YWdnaW5nLiAgSSB0aGluayB0aGUgcXVlc3Rpb24gb2Ygd2hldGhlciB0aGV5 IAo+IG1pZ2h0IGFsc28gZmluZCB1c2UgaW4gY29uc3RydWN0aW5nIGxvY2FsZXMgb3IgYW55dGhp bmcgZWxzZSBpcyBhIHJlZCAKPiBoZXJyaW5nIGFzIGZhciBhcyB0aGlzIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdCBp cyBjb25jZXJuZWQuCgpKdXN0IHRvIG1ha2Ugc3VyZSBub2JvZHkgaXMgbWlzbGVkIGJ5IHRoaXM6 ICBBbG1vc3QgYWxsIHN1YnRhZ3MgYXJlIAoiYWxzbyIgb2YgdXNlIGluIGNvbnN0cnVjdGluZyBs b2NhbGVzLCBhbmQgb2YgY291cnNlIEkgbmV2ZXIgYXJndWVkIHRoYXQgCnBvaW50LiAgTXkgY29u Y2VybiBpcyB0aGF0ICdFVScgYW5kIHRoZSBvdGhlciBzdWJ0YWdzIGFwcGVhcmVkIHRvIGhhdmUg CmJlZW4gYWRkZWQgKm9ubHkqIGZvciBsb2NhbGUgdXNhZ2UuICBMaWtlIFJhbmR5LCBJIGFncmVl IHRoYXQgdGhlIApjb25jZXJuIG9mIHRoZSBXRyBhbmQgaXRzIHByb2R1Y3RzIGlzIGxhbmd1YWdl IHRhZ2dpbmcsIG5vdCBsb2NhbGVzLCBhbmQgCnNvIEkgb3Bwb3NlIHN1YnRhZ3MgdGhhdCBleGlz dCBwcmltYXJpbHkgdG8gZmFjaWxpdGF0ZSBsb2NhbGVzLgoKSm9obiBhbmQgUGV0ZXIgaGF2ZSBh cmd1ZWQgdGhhdCB0aGUgbmV3IHN1YnRhZ3MgaGF2ZSBnZW51aW5lIHV0aWxpdHkgZm9yIApsYW5n dWFnZSB0YWdnaW5nICh0aG91Z2ggSSBzdGlsbCBoYXZlIG5vdCBiZWVuIGNvbnZpbmNlZCBhYm91 dCAnRVUnKSwuIAphbmQgdGhhdCBhcHBlYXJzIHRvIGJlIGFuIGVmZmVjdGl2ZSByZWJ1dHRhbCB0 byBteSBwcm9wb3NhbC4gIEFzIEkgc2FpZCwgCkkgd2FudGVkIHRvIGJlIHN1cmUgdGhlIGlzc3Vl IHdhcyByYWlzZWQsIGJ1dCB3aWxsIG5vdCBmaWdodCB0byB0aGUgCmRlYXRoIG92ZXIgaXQuCgpP biB0aGUgb3RoZXIgaGFuZCwgSSBjb250aW51ZSB0byBiZSAqdmVyeSogc3Ryb25nbHkgb3Bwb3Nl ZCB0byBhZGRpbmcgCnRoZSBkdXBsaWNhdGl2ZSAnVUsnIHJlZ2lvbiBzdWJ0YWcuCgotLQpEb3Vn IEV3ZWxsICAqICBGdWxsZXJ0b24sIENhbGlmb3JuaWEsIFVTQSAgKiAgUkZDIDQ2NDUgICogIFVU TiAjMTQKaHR0cDovL3d3dy5ld2VsbGljLm9yZwpodHRwOi8vd3d3MS5pZXRmLm9yZy9odG1sLmNo YXJ0ZXJzL2x0cnUtY2hhcnRlci5odG1sCmh0dHA6Ly93d3cuYWx2ZXN0cmFuZC5uby9tYWlsbWFu L2xpc3RpbmZvL2lldGYtbGFuZ3VhZ2VzICDLhgoKX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18KTHRydSBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QKTHRydUBpZXRmLm9yZwpodHRw Oi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vbHRydQo= From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Tue Feb 12 01:35:54 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0ABF528C11D; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 01:35:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.636 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.636 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.199, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id N0zHvh-8sg01; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 01:35:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D4EF28C0F4; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 01:35:53 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 660223A6AF7 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 01:35:52 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4cqeySbw0Fso for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 01:35:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from ch-smtp02.sth.basefarm.net (ch-smtp02.sth.basefarm.net [80.76.149.213]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F35C28C0F4 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 01:35:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from c83-248-91-184.bredband.comhem.se ([83.248.91.184]:3097 helo=wgbgkka02x) by ch-smtp02.sth.basefarm.net with esmtp (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1JOrZi-00043F-8m; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 10:37:15 +0100 From: "Kent Karlsson" To: "'Doug Ewell'" , "'LTRU Working Group'" References: <005501c86d46$dbd13b80$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 10:37:09 +0100 Message-ID: <01db01c86d5a$da0c1bd0$0554f853@streamserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: AchtRt/N6Zl0MP+pTZS8kFIHI491VwAEXm/w X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 In-Reply-To: <005501c86d46$dbd13b80$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> X-Originating-IP: 83.248.91.184 X-Scan-Result: No virus found in message 1JOrZi-00043F-8m. X-Scan-Signature: ch-smtp02.sth.basefarm.net 1JOrZi-00043F-8m 4a2d6a5c3a168c866caa6651c85320b8 Subject: Re: [Ltru] WGLC: remove new region subtags from 4646bis/4645bis(long) X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Doug Ewell wrote: > Just to make sure nobody is misled by this: Almost all subtags are > "also" of use in constructing locales, and of course I never > argued that point. My concern is that 'EU' and the other subtags > appeared to have been added *only* for locale usage. What is the problem if one subtag or another *of exactly the same kind as are used for language tagging* is used "only" for locales. I don't see a crisis there. There are lots and lots of combinations of subtags that are valid but useful neither for language tagging nor locales. If you see that as a major problem, you should argue against the generative system that LTRU was created to introduce. > On the other hand, I continue to be *very* strongly opposed to adding > the duplicative 'UK' region subtag. I see the possible subtag "UK" as exactly parallel to e.g. the subtag "iw" (and a few more like it) that are already in the registry. I may have missed something, but RFC 1766 makes no difference between officially assigned codes in ISO 3166-1 and other codes in ISO 3166-1 (like exceptionally reserved ones), apart from unassigned (implicitly) and user assigned codes (explicitly). /kent k _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Tue Feb 12 06:50:01 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23DF928C2DC; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 06:50:01 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.528 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.528 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.909, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id joT4OAK7mr1j; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 06:49:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E7F028C26C; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 06:49:55 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDCF128C224 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 06:49:53 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Dwgn37BMN2pi for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 06:49:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from mta9.adelphia.net (mta9.adelphia.net [68.168.78.199]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F1A428C263 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 06:49:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from DGBP7M81 ([76.167.184.182]) by mta9.adelphia.net (InterMail vM.6.01.05.02 201-2131-123-102-20050715) with SMTP id <20080212145107.IMPV1279.mta9.adelphia.net@DGBP7M81>; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 09:51:07 -0500 Message-ID: <00ad01c86d86$b3268330$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> From: "Doug Ewell" To: "LTRU Working Group" References: <005501c86d46$dbd13b80$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> <01db01c86d5a$da0c1bd0$0554f853@streamserve.com> Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 06:51:06 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 Cc: Kent Karlsson Subject: [Ltru] The case against adding 'UK' X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org 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ZW0gYXMgImNvZGUgZWxlbWVudHMgd2hpY2ggZG8gbm90IHF1YWxpZnkgZm9yIGluY2x1c2lvbiBp biAKSVNPIDMxNjYtMS4iCgotLQpEb3VnIEV3ZWxsICAqICBGdWxsZXJ0b24sIENhbGlmb3JuaWEs IFVTQSAgKiAgUkZDIDQ2NDUgICogIFVUTiAjMTQKaHR0cDovL3d3dy5ld2VsbGljLm9yZwpodHRw Oi8vd3d3MS5pZXRmLm9yZy9odG1sLmNoYXJ0ZXJzL2x0cnUtY2hhcnRlci5odG1sCmh0dHA6Ly93 d3cuYWx2ZXN0cmFuZC5uby9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL2lldGYtbGFuZ3VhZ2VzICDLhgoKX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18KTHRydSBtYWlsaW5n IGxpc3QKTHRydUBpZXRmLm9yZwpodHRwOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8v bHRydQo= From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Tue Feb 12 09:21:59 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA96C28C36F; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 09:21:59 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.707 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.707 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.270, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ylUWeAOrUJXp; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 09:21:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35F4628C3F6; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 09:21:40 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4784628CC6D for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 09:21:38 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wQF8Re4n--QT for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 09:21:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.microsoft.com (mailc.microsoft.com [131.107.115.214]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F26EF3A6E91 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 09:21:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from TK5-EXHUB-C101.redmond.corp.microsoft.com (157.54.70.76) by TK5-EXGWY-E803.partners.extranet.microsoft.com (10.251.56.169) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.1.240.5; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 09:22:53 -0800 Received: from NA-EXMSG-C117.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.62.46]) by TK5-EXHUB-C101.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.70.76]) with mapi; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 09:22:53 -0800 From: Peter Constable To: LTRU Working Group Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 09:22:48 -0800 Thread-Topic: [Ltru] WGLC: remove new region subtags from 4646bis/4645bis (long) Thread-Index: AchtRt7plCgJpwleQ2yhxvhoHIIF1gAVM8hw Message-ID: References: <005501c86d46$dbd13b80$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> In-Reply-To: <005501c86d46$dbd13b80$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [Ltru] WGLC: remove new region subtags from 4646bis/4645bis (long) X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org > From: ltru-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ltru-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > Doug Ewell > so I oppose subtags that exist primarily to facilitate locales. I do *not* oppose subtags that might have utility primarily for locales, provided that they are subtags of the same type as we already support: language, script and region. Peter _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Tue Feb 12 09:26:52 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D9D828C353; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 09:26:52 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.61 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.61 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.173, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IThc5U8FB83u; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 09:26:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F78928C2D9; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 09:26:48 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A46253A69DC for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 09:26:47 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iCp22sOHXjuT for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 09:26:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.microsoft.com (smtp.microsoft.com [131.107.115.214]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB1363A6C55 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 09:26:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from TK5-EXHUB-C101.redmond.corp.microsoft.com (157.54.70.76) by TK5-EXGWY-E803.partners.extranet.microsoft.com (10.251.56.169) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.1.240.5; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 09:28:10 -0800 Received: from NA-EXMSG-C117.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.62.46]) by TK5-EXHUB-C101.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.70.76]) with mapi; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 09:28:10 -0800 From: Peter Constable To: LTRU Working Group Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 09:28:06 -0800 Thread-Topic: [Ltru] The case against adding 'UK' Thread-Index: AchthrvcgOS+q4aeROqFmU1QzUF6fwAFVXvw Message-ID: References: <005501c86d46$dbd13b80$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> <01db01c86d5a$da0c1bd0$0554f853@streamserve.com> <00ad01c86d86$b3268330$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> In-Reply-To: <00ad01c86d86$b3268330$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [Ltru] The case against adding 'UK' X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org > From: ltru-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ltru-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > Doug Ewell > 2. I don't see what the existence of combinations of subtags that are > not "useful" (I imagine "es-CN" would be an example of this) I don't think it's our rule to judge that "es-CN" isn't useful. Equally, I don't think it's our role to judge that "es-EU" isn't useful. Peter _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Tue Feb 12 09:33:49 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9974F28C3EE; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 09:33:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.223 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.223 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.038, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nlj3ZS0WWrBQ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 09:33:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44E7D28C3AE; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 09:33:44 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A256728C3B1 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 09:33:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ajeqdWgpjTyo for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 09:33:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from rn-out-0910.google.com (rn-out-0910.google.com [64.233.170.188]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9ADD928C3AE for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 09:33:41 -0800 (PST) Received: by rn-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id a46so2252218rne.10 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 09:35:05 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.142.215.5 with SMTP id n5mr1271311wfg.11.1202837704021; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 09:35:04 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.143.174.8 with HTTP; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 09:35:03 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <30b660a20802120935n59d32473j90b7396296810beb@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 09:35:03 -0800 From: "Mark Davis" To: "Peter Constable" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline References: <005501c86d46$dbd13b80$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 678b4b7d346956e4 Cc: LTRU Working Group Subject: Re: [Ltru] WGLC: remove new region subtags from 4646bis/4645bis (long) X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Agreed. Moreover, the term "primarily" is important, since EU can be also used for language tags. Certainly it is as or more useful than other tags like BV. I agree with Randy's co-chair position: "I think we are close to rough consensus on the seven (AC, CP, DG, EA, EU, IC, TA) and would rather not prolong the discussion of them" So I think we need to close this thread. Mark On Feb 12, 2008 9:22 AM, Peter Constable wrote: > > From: ltru-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ltru-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > > Doug Ewell > > > so I oppose subtags that exist primarily to facilitate locales. > > I do *not* oppose subtags that might have utility primarily for locales, provided that they are subtags of the same type as we already support: language, script and region. > > > > Peter > > _______________________________________________ > Ltru mailing list > Ltru@ietf.org > http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru > -- Mark _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Tue Feb 12 09:42:42 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FB2428CCE5; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 09:42:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.096 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.096 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.281, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, HTML_MESSAGE=1, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SZPdNcc4jbIP; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 09:42:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC29728C3B3; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 09:42:34 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2D5028CCEA for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 09:42:32 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id O1hyIluS2W-k for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 09:42:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com (ug-out-1314.google.com [66.249.92.169]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E294A28CC50 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 09:42:08 -0800 (PST) Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id u2so1597428uge.46 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 09:43:32 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.142.177.7 with SMTP id z7mr1228612wfe.238.1202838210279; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 09:43:30 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.143.174.8 with HTTP; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 09:43:30 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <30b660a20802120943y5f0fe005jc9a9dfdc54c10c7e@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 09:43:30 -0800 From: "Mark Davis" To: "Doug Ewell" In-Reply-To: <00ad01c86d86$b3268330$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <005501c86d46$dbd13b80$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> <01db01c86d5a$da0c1bd0$0554f853@streamserve.com> <00ad01c86d86$b3268330$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 800748cb55b332e0 Cc: LTRU Working Group , Kent Karlsson Subject: Re: [Ltru] The case against adding 'UK' X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0693937885==" Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org --===============0693937885== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_17778_9505130.1202838210250" ------=_Part_17778_9505130.1202838210250 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline Rm9yIHRoZSBzdWJ0YWcgIlVLIiwgSSBkb24ndCBjYXJlIG11Y2ggb25lIHdheSBvciBhbm90aGVy IGJldHdlZW4gdHdvCnBvc2l0aW9uczoKCiAgIDEuIEFkZCBVSywgYnV0IGFzIGRlcHJlY2F0ZWQs IHBvaW50aW5nIHRvIEdCLgogICAyLiBEb24ndCBhZGQgVUsuCgpUaGUgYWR2YW50YWdlIG9mICMx IGlzIHRoYXQgaWYgd2UgZG8gZ2V0ICJlcy1VSyIsIHdlIHdvdWxkIGF1dG9tYXRpY2FsbHkgbWFw 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Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru --===============0693937885==-- From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Tue Feb 12 09:51:05 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0576828C40D; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 09:51:05 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.679 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.679 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.243, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, NORMAL_HTTP_TO_IP=0.001, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id E-pURoBpruu6; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 09:51:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1C5928C385; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 09:51:03 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42B6F28C385 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 09:51:03 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KOw9poYidEbu for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 09:50:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from ch-smtp01.sth.basefarm.net (ch-smtp01.sth.basefarm.net [80.76.149.212]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0190528C353 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 09:50:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from c83-248-85-137.bredband.comhem.se ([83.248.85.137]:2906 helo=wgbgkka02x) by ch-smtp01.sth.basefarm.net with esmtp (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1JOzIk-0000eh-6F for ltru@ietf.org; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 18:52:17 +0100 From: "Kent Karlsson" To: "'LTRU Working Group'" References: <005501c86d46$dbd13b80$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81><01db01c86d5a$da0c1bd0$0554f853@streamserve.com> <00ad01c86d86$b3268330$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 18:52:03 +0100 Message-ID: <001701c86d9f$ffb15ae0$8955f853@streamserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 In-Reply-To: <00ad01c86d86$b3268330$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> Thread-Index: Achthr1btALBGbokTKGxpRx9FuosdQACqcUg X-Originating-IP: 83.248.85.137 X-Scan-Result: No virus found in message 1JOzIk-0000eh-6F. X-Scan-Signature: ch-smtp01.sth.basefarm.net 1JOzIk-0000eh-6F f51a76cd29a292bf45dd14aaa6a397c8 Subject: Re: [Ltru] The case against adding 'UK' X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Doug Ewell wrote: > (Changing the Subject line, since this no longer deals with my LC > comment) Despite that the first part of exchange was about "EU" not "UK"... > Kent Karlsson wrote: > > > What is the problem if one subtag or another *of exactly > the same kind > > as are used for language tagging* is used "only" for > locales. I don't > > see a crisis there. There are lots and lots of combinations > of subtags > > that are valid but useful neither for language tagging nor > locales. If > > you see that as a major problem, you should argue against the > > generative system that LTRU was created to introduce. > > Working backwards here: > > 1. LTRU did not introduce the generative system insofar as it deals > with language-region combinations. That system has existed at least > since RFC 1766, if not earlier. LTRU extended the generative > system to include scripts and variants. As far as I can see "UK" (nor "IC" and other "exceptionally reserved" codes, though I haven't checked when they were introduced as "exceptionally reserved" in ISO 3166-1) are included by RFC 1766. > 2. I don't see what the existence of combinations of subtags > that are > not "useful" (I imagine "es-CN" would be an example of this) > has to do > with intentionally adding aliases, whether for language tags > or locales. You're mixing up the "EU" and the "UK" subthreads here. > 3. RFC 4646 and the Language Subtag Registry are for > language tagging. > They can *also* be used for locales, as Randy observed, but > the focus is > on language tagging. There is no mechanism to specify, "Use > this subtag > or combination for locales only." No, why should there be? ===== Switching from "EU" to "UK" subthread. ===== > > I see the possible subtag "UK" as exactly parallel to e.g. > the subtag > > "iw" (and a few more like it) that are already in the registry. > > 'iw' and others were added for a specific, historical reason. > Originally they were officially assigned in ISO 639; then they were > withdrawn and replaced with 'he' and others in 1989. During > that time > frame, there was no "official ISO 639 Web site" that users > could visit > to find out that 'iw' had been withdrawn and replaced with 'he', but > there were lots of unofficial references posted on bulletin > boards and > FTP and Gopher sites that continued to show the old code elements. > Because of the prevalence of these unofficial references, the great > likelihood was that such codes were still in legitimate use > for language > tags, even though RFC 1766 was not introduced until 1995. > And because > RFC 4646 is committed to preserving the validity of all valid > RFC 1766 > tags, 'iw' and friends were added to the Registry. > > The same situation applies to region subtags like 'BU', which has the > same meaning (as far as we are concerned) as 'MM'. That is, 'BU' > represents an ISO 3166 code element that was once officially > assigned, > before it was withdrawn in 1989 and replaced with 'MM', and > it is still > in the Registry because of the likelihood of its legitimate > use in RFC 1766 language tags. > > 'UK' was never officially assigned in ISO 3166, only reserved > so that it > would not be assigned to another country (most likely > Ukraine) and cause > confusion. The criteria that apply to 'iw' and 'BU' do not apply to > 'UK'. "UK" is not plain "reserved". According to http://www.iso.org/iso/country_codes/iso_3166_code_lists/iso-3166-1_decoding_table.htm, it is "exceptionally reserved" ***for "United Kingdom"***. No date is listed in the "Remark" column, so lacking data to the contrary, RFC 1766 allowed for the use of "UK" in RFC 1766 language tags. Even readers of RFC 4647 think "UK" is a valid region subtag, see http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/pana/current/msg02511.html. That includes one of our editors; see http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:a57r__oBm_sJ:www.inter-locale.com/whitepaper/02-C_a306_Phillips_Langtags.ppt+UK+language+tag&hl=sv&ct=clnk&cd=62. Look for "eng-UK", which is said to be "not legal" since "eng" is used instead of "en", but not seeing anything wrong with using "UK"... It's not all that uncommon in (apparent) language tags "in the wild" either: www.abisko.net/default.aspx?lang=en-UK, http://www.learn4auto.com/en-UK, http://www.kth.se/?l=en_UK, http://www.centrumgroup.com/cu/jsp/polopoly.jsp?d=676&l=en_UK, www.sida.se/sida/jsp/sida.jsp?d=520&language=en_UK, ... (I had no hand in creating these sites that use the (very few) language tags, or seeming to be language tags.) Also Google uses "en-UK", see https://adwords.google.com/support/. The page contains a number of apparent language tags "en-uk". Or http://www.wayfinder.com/?sid=49 (look at the "about us" etc. links). Ok, these apparent language tags aren't "true" language tags, but they are surely intented to be structured and look like language tags. /kent k _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Tue Feb 12 10:14:49 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 553513A6C66; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 10:14:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.585 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.585 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.022, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BZSzJ5Ym7r2x; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 10:14:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EBFB28C32D; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 10:14:48 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 531EF3A6BD9 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 10:14:48 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pzHcvU0GsmVi for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 10:14:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from elasmtp-curtail.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-curtail.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.64]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7864028CCA2 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 10:14:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from [69.3.28.38] (helo=oemcomputer) by elasmtp-curtail.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1JOzfF-00037k-Dq for ltru@ietf.org; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 13:15:29 -0500 Message-ID: <006401c86da3$550be980$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> From: "Randy Presuhn" To: "LTRU Working Group" Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 10:16:04 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-ELNK-Trace: 4488c18417c9426da92b9037bc8bcf44d4c20f6b8d69d8885d2a9c731cc89117166ee3cdcd1cdbe1740949c656e3c4d3350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 69.3.28.38 Subject: [Ltru] charter web page problem X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Hi - The WG charter web page at http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/ltru-charter.html is experiencing problems - there's an ancient version appearing there rather than the current one. The problem has been reported. I do not yet know when it will be repaired. Other working groups are also having problems with their charter web pages - some have disappeared entirely. Randy _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Tue Feb 12 10:26:02 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6400728C406; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 10:26:02 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.437 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.437 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.234, BAYES_05=-1.11, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=0.619, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Al41PasFr0az; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 10:26:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 971283A6ABF; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 10:26:01 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A05D3A698D for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 10:26:01 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JQt1hfVeoKvU for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 10:26:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.69]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F15C28C3BA for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 10:26:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from [69.3.28.38] (helo=oemcomputer) by elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1JOzql-0007aY-Vz for ltru@ietf.org; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 13:27:24 -0500 Message-ID: <00a001c86da4$fef089a0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> From: "Randy Presuhn" To: "LTRU Working Group" References: <005501c86d46$dbd13b80$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> <30b660a20802120935n59d32473j90b7396296810beb@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 10:27:59 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-ELNK-Trace: 4488c18417c9426da92b9037bc8bcf44d4c20f6b8d69d8885d2a9c731cc89117b956dc8327c10e43f1df329bcaef84f1350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 69.3.28.38 Subject: Re: [Ltru] WGLC: remove new region subtags from 4646bis/4645bis(long) X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Hi - As ltru co-chair... Based on the discussion, as co-chair, I'm ruling that we have rough consensus to retain the seven (AC, CP, DG, EA, EU, IC, TA) exceptionally reserved code elements. This resolution results in no changes to the drafts. This issue is now closed. Randy _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Tue Feb 12 10:43:07 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 844FD28CC0D; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 10:43:07 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.491 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.491 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.928, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NtrKVGiWNSku; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 10:43:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B42CA28C3F6; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 10:43:06 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E7E928C3CA for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 10:43:05 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Hj0jSkW+KSQT for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 10:43:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4385D28C3F6 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 10:43:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from [69.3.28.38] (helo=oemcomputer) by elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1JP07I-0002Ly-53 for ltru@ietf.org; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 13:44:28 -0500 Message-ID: <00e401c86da7$6156bea0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> From: "Randy Presuhn" To: "LTRU Working Group" References: <005501c86d46$dbd13b80$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81><01db01c86d5a$da0c1bd0$0554f853@streamserve.com><00ad01c86d86$b3268330$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> <001701c86d9f$ffb15ae0$8955f853@streamserve.com> Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 10:45:03 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-ELNK-Trace: 4488c18417c9426da92b9037bc8bcf44d4c20f6b8d69d8885d2a9c731cc8911738b0b81bc62ff908b5b92c808fcd24f1350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 69.3.28.38 Subject: Re: [Ltru] The case against adding 'UK' X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Hi - As co-chair: As I understand how this thread is currently playing out, there is no proposal for a change to the rules for the contruction of language tags, nor is there a proposal for a change to the operation of the registry. It is *solely* about a proposal to add a specific subtag "UK" to the registry. As such, the discussion belongs on the ietf-languages@iana.org mailing list, where a properly submitted subtag registration request would be given due consideration by the language subtag reviewer. Further posts on this topic at ltru@ietf.org will be ruled off-topic *unless* they clearly establish how they affect the operation of the registry, the addition of the ISO 639-3 codes to the registry, or the processing of language tags in general. Randy _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Tue Feb 12 11:11:57 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5AF8828C3C2; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 11:11:57 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.437 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.437 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SpHHdU4MccFR; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 11:11:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 871DE3A6E82; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 11:11:56 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18E793A6E65 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 11:11:55 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id q0RNZc19su7t for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 11:11:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from earth.ccil.org (unknown [192.190.237.11]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA7B23A6D4C for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 11:11:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from cowan by earth.ccil.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1JP0ZB-0001Pk-KN; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 14:13:17 -0500 Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 14:13:17 -0500 To: Randy Presuhn Message-ID: <20080212191317.GB23274@mercury.ccil.org> References: <001701c86d9f$ffb15ae0$8955f853@streamserve.com> <00e401c86da7$6156bea0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <00e401c86da7$6156bea0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11) From: John Cowan Cc: LTRU Working Group Subject: Re: [Ltru] The case against adding 'UK' X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Randy Presuhn scripsit: > As I understand how this thread is currently playing out, there > is no proposal for a change to the rules for the contruction of > language tags, nor is there a proposal for a change to the operation > of the registry. It is *solely* about a proposal to add a specific > subtag "UK" to the registry. As such, the discussion belongs on the > ietf-languages@iana.org mailing list, where a properly submitted subtag > registration request would be given due consideration by the language > subtag reviewer. That turns out not to be the case. 1) The 'UK' tag is explicitly excluded by the current draft; if it is to be allowed, this necessitates a change to the draft, and changes to the drafts must be discussed here. 2) The ietf-languages list has no mechanism for adding region subtags other than those officially assigned by 3166/MA and not already on the list. The code element 'UK' does not have this property. AFAICT, the only way to have the matter discussed on ietf-languages is to write language into the draft requesting and requiring that ietf-languages make the decision, and even that would only have effect after the adoption of RFC 4646bis. So if the question cannot be discussed here, the status quo stands, because it cannot be officially discussed anywhere else. -- The experiences of the past show John Cowan that there has always been a discrepancy cowan@ccil.org between plans and performance. http://www.ccil.org/~cowan --Emperor Hirohito, August 1945 _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Tue Feb 12 11:16:18 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D157B28C442; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 11:16:18 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.175 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.175 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.360, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, HTML_MESSAGE=1, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5yy5j7jDhwu3; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 11:16:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D1DF28C42C; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 11:16:17 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59D5428C445 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 11:16:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Kh93m+CgRWdJ for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 11:16:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from el-out-1112.google.com (el-out-1112.google.com [209.85.162.180]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8D5828C28D for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 11:16:14 -0800 (PST) Received: by el-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id j27so2696399elf.25 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 11:17:38 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.142.48.14 with SMTP id v14mr1375114wfv.14.1202843857986; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 11:17:37 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.143.174.8 with HTTP; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 11:17:37 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <30b660a20802121117t4d7a7b32gabd3c98050a5b65f@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 11:17:37 -0800 From: "Mark Davis" To: "Doug Ewell" In-Reply-To: <001801c8616d$5b5a4030$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <001801c8616d$5b5a4030$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 42ac5e57944d7f79 Cc: LTRU Working Group Subject: Re: [Ltru] Draft-4645bis, as you like it X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0785032515==" Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org --===============0785032515== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_18635_1322983.1202843857916" ------=_Part_18635_1322983.1202843857916 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline SSBkaWQgYSBkaWZmIG9mCgpodHRwOi8vd3d3LmlhbmEub3JnL2Fzc2lnbm1lbnRzL2xhbmd1YWdl LXN1YnRhZy1yZWdpc3RyeQooRmlsZS1EYXRlOiAyMDA4LTAxLTAyKQoKYW5kCgpodHRwOi8vaG9t ZS5yb2FkcnVubmVyLmNvbS9+ZGV3ZWxsL2xzdHJlZy00NjQ2YmlzLWRyYWZ0LTA0LnR4dAooRmls ZS1EYXRlOiAyMDI5LTA5LTA5KQoKVmVyeSBuaWNlIHdvcmshCgoxLiBPbmUgdGhpbmcgSSBub3Rp Y2VkIHdhcyB0aGF0IHRoZSBmb2xsb3dpbmcKCiUlClR5cGU6IGxhbmd1YWdlClN1YnRhZzogYW5w CkRlc2NyaXB0aW9uOiBBbmdpa2EKQWRkZWQ6IDIwMDYtMDMtMDgKCndhcyBtb3ZlZCBpbiBsb2Nh dGlvbi4gSSB0aGluayB0aGlzIHdhcyB0byBoYXZlIGFsbCB0aGUgbGFuZ3VhZ2Ugc3VidGFncyBi ZQppbiB0aGUgb3JkZXI6IGZpcnN0IDIgbGV0dGVyLCB0aGVuIDMgbGV0dGVyLiBJIGxpa2UgaGF2 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Pgo8YSBocmVmPSJtYWlsdG86THRydUBpZXRmLm9yZyI+THRydUBpZXRmLm9yZzwvYT48YnI+PGEg aHJlZj0iaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cxLmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vbHRydSIgdGFyZ2V0 PSJfYmxhbmsiPmh0dHBzOi8vd3d3MS5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL2x0cnU8L2E+ PGJyPjwvYmxvY2txdW90ZT48L2Rpdj48YnI+PGJyIGNsZWFyPSJhbGwiPjxicj4tLSA8YnI+Ck1h cmsK ------=_Part_18635_1322983.1202843857916-- --===============0785032515== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru --===============0785032515==-- From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Tue Feb 12 11:26:19 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4607428C417; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 11:26:19 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.633 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.633 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.196, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AuYGl9FX2Uhz; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 11:26:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76C6228C353; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 11:26:18 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAA2928C3AE for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 11:26:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KoAi1xd9Miyy for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 11:26:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.microsoft.com (mailb.microsoft.com [131.107.115.215]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DB1428C12B for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 11:26:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from TK5-EXHUB-C101.redmond.corp.microsoft.com (157.54.70.76) by TK5-EXGWY-E802.partners.extranet.microsoft.com (10.251.56.168) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.1.240.5; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 11:27:40 -0800 Received: from NA-EXMSG-C117.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.62.46]) by TK5-EXHUB-C101.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.70.76]) with mapi; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 11:27:40 -0800 From: Peter Constable To: LTRU Working Group Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 11:27:35 -0800 Thread-Topic: [Ltru] Draft-4645bis, as you like it Thread-Index: Achtq/WDm5MY8Zt9Sb2vDNCOAwXg/gAAL2NQ Message-ID: References: <001801c8616d$5b5a4030$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> <30b660a20802121117t4d7a7b32gabd3c98050a5b65f@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <30b660a20802121117t4d7a7b32gabd3c98050a5b65f@mail.gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [Ltru] Draft-4645bis, as you like it X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org From: ltru-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ltru-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Mark Davis > 2. You caught many of the preferred values, but: > %% > Type: grandfathered > Tag: zh-min > Description: Min, Fuzhou, Hokkien, Amoy, or Taiwanese > Added: 1999-12-18 > Deprecated: 2029-09-09 > %% > > This should have the Preferred-Value: min Hang on... "min" denotes an Malayo-Polynesian language, Minangkabau, quite unrelated to Chinese. Doug's got this right: "zh-min" should just be deprecated. Peter _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Tue Feb 12 11:37:27 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5101528C46C; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 11:37:27 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.009 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.009 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.194, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, HTML_MESSAGE=1, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qaiJVKbWc0FN; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 11:37:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88D7328C445; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 11:37:26 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE2FF28C445 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 11:37:24 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id g-symCRmB1cR for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 11:37:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from el-out-1112.google.com (el-out-1112.google.com [209.85.162.180]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0149228C444 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 11:37:23 -0800 (PST) Received: by el-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id j27so2705209elf.25 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 11:38:46 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.142.201.3 with SMTP id y3mr1371591wff.120.1202845125663; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 11:38:45 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.143.174.8 with HTTP; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 11:38:45 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <30b660a20802121138h2c750624ma53b1f536b775ea0@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 11:38:45 -0800 From: "Mark Davis" To: "Peter Constable" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <001801c8616d$5b5a4030$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> <30b660a20802121117t4d7a7b32gabd3c98050a5b65f@mail.gmail.com> X-Google-Sender-Auth: a041f7829acfb572 Cc: LTRU Working Group Subject: Re: [Ltru] Draft-4645bis, as you like it X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0235728288==" Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org --===============0235728288== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_18869_8780173.1202845125614" ------=_Part_18869_8780173.1202845125614 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Ok, sorry for the confusion. Then add this to the point below that one -- are there any tags we can use to provide replacements for the remaining grandfathered tags? Mark On Feb 12, 2008 11:27 AM, Peter Constable wrote: > From: ltru-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ltru-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > Mark Davis > > > 2. You caught many of the preferred values, but: > > %% > > Type: grandfathered > > Tag: zh-min > > Description: Min, Fuzhou, Hokkien, Amoy, or Taiwanese > > Added: 1999-12-18 > > Deprecated: 2029-09-09 > > %% > > > > This should have the Preferred-Value: min > > Hang on... "min" denotes an Malayo-Polynesian language, Minangkabau, quite > unrelated to Chinese. Doug's got this right: "zh-min" should just be > deprecated. > > > Peter > _______________________________________________ > Ltru mailing list > Ltru@ietf.org > http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru > -- Mark ------=_Part_18869_8780173.1202845125614 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Ok, sorry for the confusion. Then add this to the point below that one -- are there any tags we can use to provide replacements for the remaining grandfathered tags?

Mark

On Feb 12, 2008 11:27 AM, Peter Constable <petercon@microsoft.com> wrote:
From: ltru-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ltru-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Mark Davis

> 2. You caught many of the preferred values, but:
> %%
> Type: grandfathered
> Tag: zh-min
> Description: Min, Fuzhou, Hokkien, Amoy, or Taiwanese
> Added: 1999-12-18
> Deprecated: 2029-09-09
> %%
>
> This should have the Preferred-Value: min

Hang on... "min" denotes an Malayo-Polynesian language, Minangkabau, quite unrelated to Chinese. Doug's got this right: "zh-min" should just be deprecated.


Peter
_______________________________________________
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http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru



--
Mark ------=_Part_18869_8780173.1202845125614-- --===============0235728288== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru --===============0235728288==-- From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Tue Feb 12 11:48:22 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4347628C432; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 11:48:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.437 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.437 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uGRLXpDfLaOA; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 11:48:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D3AF28C3C3; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 11:48:18 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2ED6928C0EF for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 11:48:17 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SgPOtye7v7d3 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 11:48:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from earth.ccil.org (unknown [192.190.237.11]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39AE628C386 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 11:48:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from cowan by earth.ccil.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1JP186-0003eY-Gd; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 14:49:22 -0500 Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 14:49:22 -0500 To: Mark Davis Message-ID: <20080212194922.GD23274@mercury.ccil.org> References: <001801c8616d$5b5a4030$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> <30b660a20802121117t4d7a7b32gabd3c98050a5b65f@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <30b660a20802121117t4d7a7b32gabd3c98050a5b65f@mail.gmail.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11) From: John Cowan Cc: Doug Ewell , LTRU Working Group Subject: Re: [Ltru] Draft-4645bis, as you like it X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Mark Davis scripsit: > 2. You caught many of the preferred values, but: > %% > Type: grandfathered > Tag: zh-min > Description: Min, Fuzhou, Hokkien, Amoy, or Taiwanese > Added: 1999-12-18 > Deprecated: 2029-09-09 > %% > > This should have the Preferred-Value: min In fact not. "Min" is a group of Sinitic languages with certain common features and a presumed common descent; it has no ISO 639-* equivalent and is not considered useful for language tagging purposes. The code element 'min' refers to Minangkabau, a Malayan language of Sumatra. > 4. It would be nice if we could get to the point where we have > replacements for all the grandfathered items (except perhaps i-default I agree. > -- although even for that 'und' could probably serve). i-default text is very special; in particular, it MUST be intelligible to a monolingual anglophone, though non-English text may be present as well. See http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ltru/current/msg04190.html . i-default is not at all the same as "language undetermined", which might (e.g.) be wholly in Minangkabau. > %% > Type: grandfathered > Tag: cel-gaulish > Description: Gaulish > Added: 2001-05-25 > %% The difficulty here is that 639-3 added tags for Cisalpine and Transalpine Gaulish, but none for Gaulish as such. > %% > Type: grandfathered > Tag: en-GB-oed > Description: English, Oxford English Dictionary spelling > Added: 2003-07-09 > %% IMHO this is not worth changing. > %% > Type: grandfathered > Tag: i-enochian > Description: Enochian > Added: 2002-07-03 > %% The trick here would be to get Linguist List to register Enochian. I doubt whether it meets the criteria for registered conlangs. We could register it ourselves as "enochian", but I don't think there's any point. > %% > Type: grandfathered > Tag: i-mingo > Description: Mingo > Added: 1997-09-19 > %% Mingo is pretty certainly a dialect of Seneca in linguistic terms, but is sociolinguistically distinct. It has no ISO 639 recognition. It is nearly extinct. -- John Cowan http://www.ccil.org/~cowan cowan@ccil.org To say that Bilbo's breath was taken away is no description at all. There are no words left to express his staggerment, since Men changed the language that they learned of elves in the days when all the world was wonderful. --The Hobbit _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Tue Feb 12 14:10:15 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9703928C41C; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 14:10:15 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.708 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.708 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.270, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8mJFw13jFAwq; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 14:10:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCBFF3A6E65; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 14:10:14 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72F3C3A6E5B for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 14:10:13 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xzPCOCYKE2pw for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 14:10:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from ch-smtp01.sth.basefarm.net (ch-smtp01.sth.basefarm.net [80.76.149.212]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90E323A6E65 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 14:10:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from c83-248-85-137.bredband.comhem.se ([83.248.85.137]:1486 helo=wgbgkka02x) by ch-smtp01.sth.basefarm.net with esmtp (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1JP3Lg-0004Ij-46; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 23:11:32 +0100 From: "Kent Karlsson" To: "'Randy Presuhn'" , "'LTRU Working Group'" References: <005501c86d46$dbd13b80$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81><01db01c86d5a$da0c1bd0$0554f853@streamserve.com><00ad01c86d86$b3268330$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81><001701c86d9f$ffb15ae0$8955f853@streamserve.com> <00e401c86da7$6156bea0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 23:11:21 +0100 Message-ID: <005701c86dc4$38601e20$8955f853@streamserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 In-Reply-To: <00e401c86da7$6156bea0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> Thread-Index: Achtp1HV5/p9BqmvTjOxqIb38UBZRQAGqAcg X-Originating-IP: 83.248.85.137 X-Scan-Result: No virus found in message 1JP3Lg-0004Ij-46. X-Scan-Signature: ch-smtp01.sth.basefarm.net 1JP3Lg-0004Ij-46 b0259b51562308caa511f087c8123cbd Subject: Re: [Ltru] The case against adding 'UK' X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Randy Presuhn wrote: > As co-chair: ... > a proposal to add a specific subtag "UK" to the registry. As such, the > discussion belongs on the ietf-languages@iana.org mailing list, where As John notes, this issue is off-topic for ietf-languages, and "UK" can never be added in any way via ietf-languages. > Further posts on this topic at ltru@ietf.org will be ruled off-topic *unless* > they clearly establish how they affect the operation of the registry, the > addition of the ISO 639-3 codes to the registry, or the processing of > language tags in general. I think it is inappropriate for a co-chair to force status quo by ruling an on-topic discussion to be off-topic, while referring the issue to a list where it really is off-topic. The issue at hand here is the domain of LTRU and its 4645bis and 4646bis, but cannot be handled by ietf-languages under current as well as prospective operational rules for ietf-languages. Not allowing "UK" into the registry, will not remove use instances of "en-UK" language tags. And those tags have been written in good faith. While "in error", it would be better to treat them as if they really said "en-GB" rather than reject them as invalid. Of course a "UK" territory subtag should be deprecated with a preferred value of GB. /kent k _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Tue Feb 12 14:49:59 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A68DD3A6E87; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 14:49:59 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.294 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.294 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.731, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IjkHRiHp8d7j; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 14:49:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C512B28C46F; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 14:49:58 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE90928C48B for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 14:49:56 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RBxrIniTtQj0 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 14:49:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from elasmtp-curtail.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-curtail.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.64]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E366428C568 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 14:49:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from [69.3.28.38] (helo=oemcomputer) by elasmtp-curtail.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1JP3xV-0001XV-73 for ltru@ietf.org; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 17:50:37 -0500 Message-ID: <003501c86dc9$c51e23c0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> From: "Randy Presuhn" To: "'LTRU Working Group'" References: <005501c86d46$dbd13b80$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81><01db01c86d5a$da0c1bd0$0554f853@streamserve.com><00ad01c86d86$b3268330$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81><001701c86d9f$ffb15ae0$8955f853@streamserve.com> <00e401c86da7$6156bea0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> <005701c86dc4$38601e20$8955f853@streamserve.com> Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 14:51:13 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-ELNK-Trace: 4488c18417c9426da92b9037bc8bcf44d4c20f6b8d69d8885d2a9c731cc89117559451b7414b772244a2ceed4f2beff7350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 69.3.28.38 Subject: Re: [Ltru] The case against adding 'UK' X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Hi - Our documents are in WG last call. The time for arm-waving proposals is long past. If you want a change to either i-d, propose specific text. Unless proposing specific text, further posts on this thread are *not* welcome. If you think a change to the registry rules is desirable, PLEASE PROPOSE THE EXACT EDITS YOU WOULD LIKE TO SEE. It's time to finish off this work so the rest of us can move on to interesting things. If you think I'm behaving inappropriately, feel free to consult with our AD. Randy as ltru co-chair _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Tue Feb 12 14:53:39 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A18723A69A4; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 14:53:39 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.485 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.485 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.333, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=0.619, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bqZ85IMG1lxC; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 14:53:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E84128C0D0; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 14:53:38 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E591D3A69A4 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 14:53:36 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iQ8eTbfcVEXN for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 14:53:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.69]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B3F93A6C6A for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 14:53:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from [69.3.28.38] (helo=oemcomputer) by elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1JP41g-0005Oq-Vd for ltru@ietf.org; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 17:54:57 -0500 Message-ID: <005501c86dca$6010e340$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> From: "Randy Presuhn" To: "LTRU Working Group" References: <001801c8616d$5b5a4030$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> <30b660a20802121117t4d7a7b32gabd3c98050a5b65f@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 14:55:33 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-ELNK-Trace: 4488c18417c9426da92b9037bc8bcf44d4c20f6b8d69d8885d2a9c731cc891178d16caf8f6c29fd0950bf8b32ddc94a1350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 69.3.28.38 Subject: [Ltru] Message Subjects X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org SGkgLQoKUExFQVNFIFBMRUFTRSBQTEVBU0UgUExFQVNFCk9ORSB0ZWNobmljYWwgY29tbWVudCBw 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LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLQoKCj4gX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X18KPiBMdHJ1IG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdAo+IEx0cnVAaWV0Zi5vcmcKPiBodHRwOi8vd3d3LmlldGYu b3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vbHRydQo+CgoKX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18KTHRydSBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QKTHRydUBpZXRmLm9yZwpodHRw Oi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vbHRydQo= From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Tue Feb 12 15:08:12 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 503363A6E65; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 15:08:12 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.058 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.058 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.495, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6x92TDjj0GxT; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 15:08:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82FB928C25B; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 15:08:11 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A5113A6E65 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 15:08:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KuWzLZw+9-rp for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 15:08:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.65]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E03D3A6C6A for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 15:08:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from [69.3.28.38] (helo=oemcomputer) by elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1JP4Fm-000817-Sa for ltru@ietf.org; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 18:09:31 -0500 Message-ID: <008f01c86dcc$68e5b660$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> From: "Randy Presuhn" To: "LTRU Working Group" References: <001801c8616d$5b5a4030$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> <30b660a20802121117t4d7a7b32gabd3c98050a5b65f@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 15:10:07 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-ELNK-Trace: 4488c18417c9426da92b9037bc8bcf44d4c20f6b8d69d8885d2a9c731cc891179d624a657830d16ea61ca348860f1ea5350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 69.3.28.38 Subject: [Ltru] preferred value zh-min X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Hi - (Starting new subject line for sanity) > From: "Mark Davis" > To: "Doug Ewell" > Cc: "LTRU Working Group" > Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 11:17 AM > Subject: Re: [Ltru] Draft-4645bis, as you like it ... > 2. You caught many of the preferred values, but: > %% > Type: grandfathered > Tag: zh-min > Description: Min, Fuzhou, Hokkien, Amoy, or Taiwanese > Added: 1999-12-18 > Deprecated: 2029-09-09 > %% > > This should have the Preferred-Value: min ... As I read the thread the rough consensus is to *not* make the proposed change. Randy as ltru co-chair _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Tue Feb 12 15:11:09 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C3853A6DF9; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 15:11:09 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.337 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.337 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.155, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=0.619, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oZJda8Z6qfwN; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 15:11:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C9DC28C4C8; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 15:11:07 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7477928C2A4 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 15:11:05 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FPDKpfWPut67 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 15:11:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.69]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF5E228C568 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 15:10:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from [69.3.28.38] (helo=oemcomputer) by elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1JP4I8-0005eL-En for ltru@ietf.org; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 18:11:56 -0500 Message-ID: <00a401c86dcc$bfc9f9a0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> From: "Randy Presuhn" To: "LTRU Working Group" References: <001801c8616d$5b5a4030$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> <30b660a20802121117t4d7a7b32gabd3c98050a5b65f@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 15:12:32 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-ELNK-Trace: 4488c18417c9426da92b9037bc8bcf44d4c20f6b8d69d8885d2a9c731cc891172cccd268b988c550232b971da822bc1b350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 69.3.28.38 Subject: [Ltru] preferred value of zh-hakka in Draft-4645bis X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Hi - New subject line for sanity. Please discuss on this thread so we know whether a change is agreed or not. (It's not even clear to me what change is being proposed for this item!) > From: "Mark Davis" > To: "Doug Ewell" > Cc: "LTRU Working Group" > Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 11:17 AM > Subject: Re: [Ltru] Draft-4645bis, as you like it .. > 3. Others: > > Preferred-Value: zh-hakka ... Randy _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Tue Feb 12 15:11:36 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 773BA3A6C41; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 15:11:36 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.002 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.002 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.435, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uMMe3-JpjuiE; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 15:11:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCD6E3A6CD9; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 15:11:35 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C9E33A68A5 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 15:11:34 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wXq1mdcaHY-S for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 15:11:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACCBD3A6ABE for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 15:11:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from [69.3.28.38] (helo=oemcomputer) by elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1JP4J7-0000dt-HB for ltru@ietf.org; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 18:12:57 -0500 Message-ID: <00b901c86dcc$e40ef2c0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> From: "Randy Presuhn" To: "LTRU Working Group" References: <001801c8616d$5b5a4030$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> <30b660a20802121117t4d7a7b32gabd3c98050a5b65f@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 15:13:33 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-ELNK-Trace: 4488c18417c9426da92b9037bc8bcf44d4c20f6b8d69d8885d2a9c731cc89117b74cb0ae3c5da669a2e85d2d9e36d277350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 69.3.28.38 Subject: [Ltru] preferred-value of zh-cmn in draft-4645bis X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Hi - New subject line for sanity. Please discuss on this thread so we know whether a change is agreed or not. (It's not even clear to me what change is being proposed for this item!) > From: "Mark Davis" > To: "Doug Ewell" > Cc: "LTRU Working Group" > Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 11:17 AM > Subject: Re: [Ltru] Draft-4645bis, as you like it .. > 3. Others: ... > Preferred-Value: zh-cmn Randy _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Tue Feb 12 15:13:15 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB10428C39F; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 15:13:15 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.046 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.046 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.391, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zlD-83w6LkYU; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 15:13:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28C313A6CCB; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 15:13:15 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 113773A6CCB for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 15:13:14 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FUxKa6U3czaZ for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 15:13:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.63]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 202AE3A6C6A for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 15:13:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from [69.3.28.38] (helo=oemcomputer) by elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1JP4Kh-0004rj-Rs for ltru@ietf.org; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 18:14:36 -0500 Message-ID: <00ce01c86dcd$1ea963c0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> From: "Randy Presuhn" To: "LTRU Working Group" References: <001801c8616d$5b5a4030$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> <30b660a20802121117t4d7a7b32gabd3c98050a5b65f@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 15:15:11 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-ELNK-Trace: 4488c18417c9426da92b9037bc8bcf44d4c20f6b8d69d8885d2a9c731cc89117b1a0fc25f78ee3c47746c074c34bc74b350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 69.3.28.38 Subject: [Ltru] replacement for grandfathered items in Draft-4645bis X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Hi - New subject line for sanity... > From: "Mark Davis" > To: "Doug Ewell" > Cc: "LTRU Working Group" > Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 11:17 AM > Subject: Re: [Ltru] Draft-4645bis, as you like it ... > 4. It would be nice if we could get to the point where we have replacements > for all the grandfathered items (except perhaps i-default -- although even > for that 'und' could probably serve). As far as I can tell from a visual > scan of the file, those are just the following (does that match what you > think, Doug?). > > %% > Type: grandfathered > Tag: cel-gaulish > Description: Gaulish > Added: 2001-05-25 > %% > > %% > Type: grandfathered > Tag: en-GB-oed > Description: English, Oxford English Dictionary spelling > Added: 2003-07-09 > %% > > %% > Type: grandfathered > Tag: i-enochian > Description: Enochian > Added: 2002-07-03 > %% > > %% > Type: grandfathered > Tag: i-mingo > Description: Mingo > Added: 1997-09-19 > %% ... Randy _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Tue Feb 12 15:15:15 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C43CA3A6DCD; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 15:15:15 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.09 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.09 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.347, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id e91QGoJiFt7R; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 15:15:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0ABB328C296; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 15:15:15 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CD983A6CD9 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 15:15:14 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ygZH3qMAeQ7M for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 15:15:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.66]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A6473A6E84 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 15:15:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from [69.3.28.38] (helo=oemcomputer) by elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1JP4Me-0007Go-Nk for ltru@ietf.org; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 18:16:37 -0500 Message-ID: <00e301c86dcd$66d1ae00$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> From: "Randy Presuhn" To: "LTRU Working Group" References: <001801c8616d$5b5a4030$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> <30b660a20802121117t4d7a7b32gabd3c98050a5b65f@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 15:17:13 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-ELNK-Trace: 4488c18417c9426da92b9037bc8bcf44d4c20f6b8d69d8885d2a9c731cc89117d45b49c6a4265b853a40363315397ac9350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 69.3.28.38 Subject: [Ltru] source standards' dates in comment registry Draft-4645bis X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Hi - New subject line for sanity... > From: "Mark Davis" > To: "Doug Ewell" > Cc: "LTRU Working Group" > Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 11:17 AM > Subject: Re: [Ltru] Draft-4645bis, as you like it ... > 6. Issue: if we allow a Comment at the top level of the file, we could put > in the latest version numbers/dates of different standards that we draw > from... ... RAndy _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Tue Feb 12 15:31:22 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42FC128C296; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 15:31:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.437 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.437 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id E1UrSWokQ4xV; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 15:31:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B86A3A6EBB; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 15:31:16 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63C5F3A6CBE for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 15:31:15 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xO-5KCrfXc68 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 15:31:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from earth.ccil.org (unknown [192.190.237.11]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66A223A6D53 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 15:31:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from cowan by earth.ccil.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1JP4c9-0002Wb-5j; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 18:32:37 -0500 Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 18:32:37 -0500 To: Randy Presuhn Message-ID: <20080212233237.GA5088@mercury.ccil.org> References: <00e401c86da7$6156bea0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> <005701c86dc4$38601e20$8955f853@streamserve.com> <003501c86dc9$c51e23c0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <003501c86dc9$c51e23c0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11) From: John Cowan Cc: 'LTRU Working Group' Subject: Re: [Ltru] The case against adding 'UK' X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org UmFuZHkgUHJlc3VobiBzY3JpcHNpdDoKCj4gT3VyIGRvY3VtZW50cyBhcmUgaW4gV0cgbGFzdCBj YWxsLiAgVGhlIHRpbWUgZm9yIGFybS13YXZpbmcKPiBwcm9wb3NhbHMgaXMgbG9uZyBwYXN0LiAg SWYgeW91IHdhbnQgYSBjaGFuZ2UgdG8gZWl0aGVyIGktZCwKPiBwcm9wb3NlIHNwZWNpZmljIHRl eHQuICBVbmxlc3MgcHJvcG9zaW5nIHNwZWNpZmljIHRleHQsIGZ1cnRoZXIKPiBwb3N0cyBvbiB0 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cm91Z2ggc2hvdCBhbmQgc2hlbGwsICAgICAgICAgICBodHRwOi8vY2NpbC5vcmcvfmNvd2FuCndl J2xsIGJlIGluIGhlcmUgdGhpbmtpbmcgd2hhdCBhIHN1Y2tlciB5b3UgYXJlIQogICAgICAgIC0t UnVmdXMgVC4gRmlyZWZseQpfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fXwpMdHJ1IG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdApMdHJ1QGlldGYub3JnCmh0dHA6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5v cmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9sdHJ1Cg== From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Tue Feb 12 15:42:53 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B98128C418; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 15:42:53 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.743 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.743 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.442, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, HTML_MESSAGE=1, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bPheEJB4or0B; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 15:42:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76FC028C36F; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 15:42:52 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC79228C38B for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 15:42:50 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ksj0mfsx6vue for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 15:42:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from rn-out-0910.google.com (rn-out-0910.google.com [64.233.170.188]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE51428C1CE for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 15:42:49 -0800 (PST) Received: by rn-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id a46so2423174rne.10 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 15:44:13 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.142.165.9 with SMTP id n9mr1582705wfe.93.1202859851933; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 15:44:11 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.143.174.8 with HTTP; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 15:44:12 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <30b660a20802121544pa80ac4ay2b2e4e7f5f5d6843@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 15:44:12 -0800 From: "Mark Davis" To: "Randy Presuhn" In-Reply-To: <008f01c86dcc$68e5b660$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <001801c8616d$5b5a4030$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> <30b660a20802121117t4d7a7b32gabd3c98050a5b65f@mail.gmail.com> <008f01c86dcc$68e5b660$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 51901fd619991a22 Cc: LTRU Working Group Subject: Re: [Ltru] preferred value zh-min X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2043613567==" Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org --===============2043613567== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_20787_20695826.1202859852058" ------=_Part_20787_20695826.1202859852058 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline correct. I'll go through and clean up the message with specifics in separate messages/subjects On Feb 12, 2008 3:10 PM, Randy Presuhn wrote: > Hi - > > (Starting new subject line for sanity) > > > From: "Mark Davis" > > To: "Doug Ewell" > > Cc: "LTRU Working Group" > > Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 11:17 AM > > Subject: Re: [Ltru] Draft-4645bis, as you like it > ... > > 2. You caught many of the preferred values, but: > > %% > > Type: grandfathered > > Tag: zh-min > > Description: Min, Fuzhou, Hokkien, Amoy, or Taiwanese > > Added: 1999-12-18 > > Deprecated: 2029-09-09 > > %% > > > > This should have the Preferred-Value: min > ... > > As I read the thread the rough consensus is to *not* make > the proposed change. > > Randy > as ltru co-chair > > _______________________________________________ > Ltru mailing list > Ltru@ietf.org > http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru > -- Mark ------=_Part_20787_20695826.1202859852058 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline correct. I'll go through and clean up the message with specifics in separate messages/subjects

On Feb 12, 2008 3:10 PM, Randy Presuhn <randy_presuhn@mindspring.com> wrote:
Hi -

(Starting new subject line for sanity)

> From: "Mark Davis" <mark.davis@icu-project.org>
> To: "Doug Ewell" <dewell@roadrunner.com>
> Cc: "LTRU Working Group" <ltru@ietf.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 11:17 AM
> Subject: Re: [Ltru] Draft-4645bis, as you like it
...
> 2. You caught many of the preferred values, but:
> %%
> Type: grandfathered
> Tag: zh-min
> Description: Min, Fuzhou, Hokkien, Amoy, or Taiwanese
> Added: 1999-12-18
> Deprecated: 2029-09-09
> %%
>
> This should have the Preferred-Value: min
...

As I read the thread the rough consensus is to *not* make
the proposed change.

Randy
as ltru co-chair

_______________________________________________
Ltru mailing list
Ltru@ietf.org
http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru



--
Mark ------=_Part_20787_20695826.1202859852058-- --===============2043613567== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru --===============2043613567==-- From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Tue Feb 12 15:51:30 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34AB83A6E9D; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 15:51:30 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.716 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.716 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.279, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xNhX0t9LfO7K; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 15:51:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C8F53A6DCA; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 15:51:29 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A58763A6E94 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 15:51:27 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6WQNUO5tEftO for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 15:51:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from ch-smtp02.sth.basefarm.net (ch-smtp02.sth.basefarm.net [80.76.149.213]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AA0F3A6DCA for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 15:51:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from c83-248-85-137.bredband.comhem.se ([83.248.85.137]:2225 helo=wgbgkka02x) by ch-smtp02.sth.basefarm.net with esmtp (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1JP4vf-0004fN-9c for ltru@ietf.org; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 00:52:48 +0100 From: "Kent Karlsson" To: "'LTRU Working Group'" References: <005501c86d46$dbd13b80$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81><01db01c86d5a$da0c1bd0$0554f853@streamserve.com><00ad01c86d86$b3268330$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81><001701c86d9f$ffb15ae0$8955f853@streamserve.com><00e401c86da7$6156bea0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer><005701c86dc4$38601e20$8955f853@streamserve.com> <003501c86dc9$c51e23c0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 00:52:45 +0100 Message-ID: <005e01c86dd2$5db1eb00$8955f853@streamserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 In-Reply-To: <003501c86dc9$c51e23c0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> Thread-Index: AchtydBD99TbcQYzQDuLu/PFG2EqpgABF6Kw X-Originating-IP: 83.248.85.137 X-Scan-Result: No virus found in message 1JP4vf-0004fN-9c. X-Scan-Signature: ch-smtp02.sth.basefarm.net 1JP4vf-0004fN-9c 249219a7270433214ece4e70aa085d97 Subject: Re: [Ltru] The case against adding 'UK' X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Randy Presuhn wrote: > Our documents are in WG last call. The time for arm-waving > proposals is long past. If you want a change to either i-d, > propose specific text. Unless proposing specific text, further > posts on this thread are *not* welcome. If you think a change > to the registry rules is desirable, PLEASE PROPOSE THE > EXACT EDITS YOU WOULD LIKE TO SEE. It's time to > finish off this work so the rest of us can move on to interesting > things. For 4645bis: 1) Replace "UK" (United Kingdom) was not added because it is associated with the same UN M.49 code (826) as the existing region subtag "GB". Section 3.4, item 14 (D) of [draft-ietf-ltru-4646bis-11] states that a new region subtag is not added if it carries the same meaning as an existing region subtag. with "UK" (United Kingdom) was added as deprecated with a preferred value of "GB" because it is associated with the same UN M.49 code (826) as the region subtag "GB" already in the registry. One may read RFC 1766 as that exceptionally reserved region subtags could be used, and they have been, so this an issue of stability from what could be seen as valid per RFC 1766. 2) add the following lines in the list of subtag records: %% Type: region Subtag: UK Description: United Kingdom Added: Preferred-Value: GB Deprecated: (the here should be the same in both instances here and also be the same as for IC etc.) For 4646bis: 1) Replace In addition, the codes that are "exceptionally reserved" (as opposed to "assigned") in ISO 3166-1 were also defined in the registry, with the exception of 'UK', which is an exact synonym for the assigned code 'GB'. with In addition, the codes that are "exceptionally reserved" (as opposed to "assigned") in ISO 3166-1 were also defined in the registry. However, 'UK' is deprecated because it is an exact synonym for the assigned code 'GB', thus treating it in the same way as e.g. 'iw'. 2) Replace reserved" ISO 3166-1 codes other than 'UK' were included into the with reserved" ISO 3166-1 codes were included ('UK' as deprecated) into the Note that I do not suggest that future aliases, if any, be treated this way. This is an exception, since the exceptional reservation of 'UK' *for United Kingdom* (rather than be reserved for nothing in particular) predates RFC 4646, and it stands for a real region, and that one can interpret RFC 1766 as allowing the use of 'UK' just as much as the use of e.g. 'iw'. /kent k _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Tue Feb 12 19:10:21 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D75DC28C6C4; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 19:10:21 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.518 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.518 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.081, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aZepKMYr+H0O; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 19:10:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14CF328C670; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 19:10:21 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C1C328C63B for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 19:10:19 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id w7wwGtgmFLvv for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 19:10:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from rsmtp1.corp.yahoo.com (rsmtp1.corp.yahoo.com [207.126.228.149]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE87D28C677 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 19:10:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.72.76.178] (snvvpn2-10-72-76-c178.corp.yahoo.com [10.72.76.178]) by rsmtp1.corp.yahoo.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/y.rout) with ESMTP id m1D3BcJM099233; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 19:11:39 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <47B25FEA.6050203@yahoo-inc.com> Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 19:11:38 -0800 From: Addison Phillips User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Randy Presuhn References: <001801c8616d$5b5a4030$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> <30b660a20802121117t4d7a7b32gabd3c98050a5b65f@mail.gmail.com> <00e301c86dcd$66d1ae00$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> In-Reply-To: <00e301c86dcd$66d1ae00$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> Cc: LTRU Working Group Subject: Re: [Ltru] source standards' dates in comment registry Draft-4645bis X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Mark, Do you mean: 1. Allow a Comment field in the File-Date record or.. 2. Allow file level comments as in draft-record-jar [1] Addison [1] http://www.inter-locale.com/ID/draft-phillips-record-jar-01.html#comments Randy Presuhn wrote: > Hi - > > New subject line for sanity... > >> From: "Mark Davis" >> To: "Doug Ewell" >> Cc: "LTRU Working Group" >> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 11:17 AM >> Subject: Re: [Ltru] Draft-4645bis, as you like it > ... >> 6. Issue: if we allow a Comment at the top level of the file, we could put >> in the latest version numbers/dates of different standards that we draw >> from... > ... > > RAndy > > _______________________________________________ > Ltru mailing list > Ltru@ietf.org > http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru -- Addison Phillips Globalization Architect -- Yahoo! Inc. Chair -- W3C Internationalization Core WG Internationalization is an architecture. It is not a feature. _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Tue Feb 12 20:31:03 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5B9628C6E1; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 20:31:03 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.542 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.542 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.105, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RbrjJxzOCpxf; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 20:31:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E845C28C6DE; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 20:31:02 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D20F28C6DE for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 20:31:02 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1xOP1GyHYj6S for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 20:31:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.microsoft.com (maila.microsoft.com [131.107.115.212]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44F6828C6DC for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 20:31:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from tk5-exhub-c104.redmond.corp.microsoft.com (157.54.70.185) by TK5-EXGWY-E801.partners.extranet.microsoft.com (10.251.56.50) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.1.240.5; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 20:32:25 -0800 Received: from NA-EXMSG-C117.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.62.46]) by tk5-exhub-c104.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.70.185]) with mapi; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 20:32:24 -0800 From: Peter Constable To: Kent Karlsson , 'LTRU Working Group' Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 20:32:19 -0800 Thread-Topic: [Ltru] The case against adding 'UK' Thread-Index: AchtydBD99TbcQYzQDuLu/PFG2EqpgABF6KwAArMMFA= Message-ID: References: <005501c86d46$dbd13b80$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81><01db01c86d5a$da0c1bd0$0554f853@streamserve.com><00ad01c86d86$b3268330$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81><001701c86d9f$ffb15ae0$8955f853@streamserve.com><00e401c86da7$6156bea0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer><005701c86dc4$38601e20$8955f853@streamserve.com> <003501c86dc9$c51e23c0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> <005e01c86dd2$5db1eb00$8955f853@streamserve.com> In-Reply-To: <005e01c86dd2$5db1eb00$8955f853@streamserve.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [Ltru] The case against adding 'UK' X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Kent's proposed changes seem sensible to me. Peter > -----Original Message----- > From: ltru-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ltru-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > Kent Karlsson > Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 3:53 PM > To: 'LTRU Working Group' > Subject: Re: [Ltru] The case against adding 'UK' > > Randy Presuhn wrote: > > Our documents are in WG last call. The time for arm-waving > > proposals is long past. If you want a change to either i-d, > > propose specific text. Unless proposing specific text, further > > posts on this thread are *not* welcome. If you think a change > > to the registry rules is desirable, PLEASE PROPOSE THE > > EXACT EDITS YOU WOULD LIKE TO SEE. It's time to > > finish off this work so the rest of us can move on to interesting > > things. > > For 4645bis: > > 1) Replace > "UK" (United Kingdom) was not added because it is associated > with > the same UN M.49 code (826) as the existing region subtag "GB". > Section 3.4, item 14 (D) of [draft-ietf-ltru-4646bis-11] states > that a new region subtag is not added if it carries the same > meaning as an existing region subtag. > with > "UK" (United Kingdom) was added as deprecated with a preferred > value of "GB" because it is associated with the same UN M.49 > code (826) as the region subtag "GB" already in the registry. > One may read RFC 1766 as that exceptionally reserved region > subtags could be used, and they have been, so this an issue > of stability from what could be seen as valid per RFC 1766. > > 2) add the following lines in the list of subtag records: > %% > Type: region > Subtag: UK > Description: United Kingdom > Added: > Preferred-Value: GB > Deprecated: > > (the here should be the same in both instances > here and also be the same as for IC etc.) > > For 4646bis: > > 1) Replace > In addition, the codes that are > "exceptionally reserved" (as opposed to "assigned") in ISO 3166- > 1 > were also defined in the registry, with the exception of 'UK', > which is an exact synonym for the assigned code 'GB'. > with > In addition, the codes that are > "exceptionally reserved" (as opposed to "assigned") in ISO 3166- > 1 > were also defined in the registry. However, 'UK' is deprecated > because it is an exact synonym for the assigned code 'GB', thus > treating it in the same way as e.g. 'iw'. > > 2) Replace > reserved" ISO 3166-1 codes other than 'UK' were included into the > with > reserved" ISO 3166-1 codes were included ('UK' as deprecated) > into the > > Note that I do not suggest that future aliases, if any, be treated this > way. > This is an exception, since the exceptional reservation of 'UK' *for > United Kingdom* (rather than be reserved for nothing in particular) > predates RFC 4646, and it stands for a real region, and that one can > interpret RFC 1766 as allowing the use of 'UK' just as much as the use > of e.g. 'iw'. > > /kent k > > _______________________________________________ > Ltru mailing list > Ltru@ietf.org > http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Tue Feb 12 21:45:39 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CDDC3A6EE4; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 21:45:39 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.068 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.068 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.631, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ec4JDfwBdxkA; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 21:45:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A92D3A6CEB; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 21:45:38 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0C113A6EC7 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 21:45:36 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ggfB3aSKp7D7 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 21:45:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from rsmtp2.corp.yahoo.com (rsmtp2.corp.yahoo.com [207.126.228.150]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5CF63A6CEB for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 21:45:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.72.76.178] (snvvpn2-10-72-76-c178.corp.yahoo.com [10.72.76.178]) by rsmtp2.corp.yahoo.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/y.rout) with ESMTP id m1D5kOH0095230; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 21:46:25 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <47B28430.5010802@yahoo-inc.com> Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 21:46:24 -0800 From: Addison Phillips User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Peter Constable References: <005501c86d46$dbd13b80$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81><01db01c86d5a$da0c1bd0$0554f853@streamserve.com><00ad01c86d86$b3268330$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81><001701c86d9f$ffb15ae0$8955f853@streamserve.com><00e401c86da7$6156bea0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer><005701c86dc4$38601e20$8955f853@streamserve.com> <003501c86dc9$c51e23c0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> <005e01c86dd2$5db1eb00$8955f853@streamserve.com> In-Reply-To: Cc: 'LTRU Working Group' , Kent Karlsson Subject: Re: [Ltru] The case against adding 'UK' X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Ur... are you sure? Adding 'UK' as a deprecated code has the effect of making tags such as "en-UK" valid (they are not now valid). I oppose making these changes because of the confusion that allowing this special case would create. The invalidity of 'UK' is both deliberate and good. Alternatively, if we really must add it, a Comment really should be included specifying exactly why it was included. Addison -- Addison Phillips Globalization Architect -- Yahoo! Inc. Chair -- W3C Internationalization Core WG Internationalization is an architecture. It is not a feature. Peter Constable wrote: > Kent's proposed changes seem sensible to me. > > Peter > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: ltru-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ltru-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of >> Kent Karlsson >> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 3:53 PM >> To: 'LTRU Working Group' >> Subject: Re: [Ltru] The case against adding 'UK' >> >> Randy Presuhn wrote: >>> Our documents are in WG last call. The time for arm-waving >>> proposals is long past. If you want a change to either i-d, >>> propose specific text. Unless proposing specific text, further >>> posts on this thread are *not* welcome. If you think a change >>> to the registry rules is desirable, PLEASE PROPOSE THE >>> EXACT EDITS YOU WOULD LIKE TO SEE. It's time to >>> finish off this work so the rest of us can move on to interesting >>> things. >> For 4645bis: >> >> 1) Replace >> "UK" (United Kingdom) was not added because it is associated >> with >> the same UN M.49 code (826) as the existing region subtag "GB". >> Section 3.4, item 14 (D) of [draft-ietf-ltru-4646bis-11] states >> that a new region subtag is not added if it carries the same >> meaning as an existing region subtag. >> with >> "UK" (United Kingdom) was added as deprecated with a preferred >> value of "GB" because it is associated with the same UN M.49 >> code (826) as the region subtag "GB" already in the registry. >> One may read RFC 1766 as that exceptionally reserved region >> subtags could be used, and they have been, so this an issue >> of stability from what could be seen as valid per RFC 1766. >> >> 2) add the following lines in the list of subtag records: >> %% >> Type: region >> Subtag: UK >> Description: United Kingdom >> Added: >> Preferred-Value: GB >> Deprecated: >> >> (the here should be the same in both instances >> here and also be the same as for IC etc.) >> >> For 4646bis: >> >> 1) Replace >> In addition, the codes that are >> "exceptionally reserved" (as opposed to "assigned") in ISO 3166- >> 1 >> were also defined in the registry, with the exception of 'UK', >> which is an exact synonym for the assigned code 'GB'. >> with >> In addition, the codes that are >> "exceptionally reserved" (as opposed to "assigned") in ISO 3166- >> 1 >> were also defined in the registry. However, 'UK' is deprecated >> because it is an exact synonym for the assigned code 'GB', thus >> treating it in the same way as e.g. 'iw'. >> >> 2) Replace >> reserved" ISO 3166-1 codes other than 'UK' were included into the >> with >> reserved" ISO 3166-1 codes were included ('UK' as deprecated) >> into the >> >> Note that I do not suggest that future aliases, if any, be treated this >> way. >> This is an exception, since the exceptional reservation of 'UK' *for >> United Kingdom* (rather than be reserved for nothing in particular) >> predates RFC 4646, and it stands for a real region, and that one can >> interpret RFC 1766 as allowing the use of 'UK' just as much as the use >> of e.g. 'iw'. >> >> /kent k >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Ltru mailing list >> Ltru@ietf.org >> http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru > _______________________________________________ > Ltru mailing list > Ltru@ietf.org > http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Tue Feb 12 21:54:49 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E0253A6EFC; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 21:54:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.917 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.917 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.480, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9SrMAbc4cn1U; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 21:54:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B7673A6ED8; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 21:54:48 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5FBC3A6ED8 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 21:54:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OUkePVkN-QlS for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 21:54:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from rsmtp2.corp.yahoo.com (rsmtp2.corp.yahoo.com [207.126.228.150]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CF773A6EFC for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 21:54:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.72.76.178] (snvvpn2-10-72-76-c178.corp.yahoo.com [10.72.76.178]) by rsmtp2.corp.yahoo.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/y.rout) with ESMTP id m1D5tpxd095575 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 21:55:51 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <47B28666.6010707@yahoo-inc.com> Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 21:55:50 -0800 From: Addison Phillips User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "'LTRU Working Group'" Subject: [Ltru] draft-12 edits already in place... X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Following this message will be a series of emails, one per edited block, summarizing changes this editor incorporated into a draft-12 prior to the start of WGLC. I believe that each of these reflects some previous consensus of this WG or is a mere editorial change on my part. A summary follows: 1. (editorial) Figure 3 was given a title. 2. (substantive) Text in section 3.1.1 on folding was changed to require folding on whitespace boundaries (previously we referenced default grapheme cluster boundaries). 3. (substantive) John Cowan's text on macro-languages was added near the end of section 4.2, along with a figure 8 (resulting in a renumbering of figures elsewhere). Best Regards, Addison -- Addison Phillips Globalization Architect -- Yahoo! Inc. Chair -- W3C Internationalization Core WG Internationalization is an architecture. It is not a feature. _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Tue Feb 12 21:55:46 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DE8E3A6EFC; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 21:55:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.879 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.879 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.442, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id URsf5RRz8iwV; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 21:55:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA7433A6E9B; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 21:55:45 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCCEB3A6EE9 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 21:55:44 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Wan+tcp+JLmf for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 21:55:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from rsmtp2.corp.yahoo.com (rsmtp2.corp.yahoo.com [207.126.228.150]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2610B3A6CEB for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 21:55:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.72.76.178] (snvvpn2-10-72-76-c178.corp.yahoo.com [10.72.76.178]) by rsmtp2.corp.yahoo.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/y.rout) with ESMTP id m1D5v5j3095641 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 21:57:05 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <47B286B0.1040806@yahoo-inc.com> Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 21:57:04 -0800 From: Addison Phillips User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "'LTRU Working Group'" Subject: [Ltru] figure 3 title X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org In the editor's copy of draft-12, Figure 3 was given the title: Figure 3: RFC 3066 Language Tag Syntax It previously had no title. Some of the conversion tools complain about that. Addison -- Addison Phillips Globalization Architect -- Yahoo! Inc. Chair -- W3C Internationalization Core WG Internationalization is an architecture. It is not a feature. _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Tue Feb 12 21:58:29 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40DB93A6F01; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 21:58:29 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.853 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.853 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.416, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TGp8IGiI5U00; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 21:58:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A3843A6EFF; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 21:58:28 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04B9A3A6EE9 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 21:58:27 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mFhwrLtwf3K4 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 21:58:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from rsmtp2.corp.yahoo.com (rsmtp2.corp.yahoo.com [207.126.228.150]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A475C3A6E9B for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 21:58:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.72.76.178] (snvvpn2-10-72-76-c178.corp.yahoo.com [10.72.76.178]) by rsmtp2.corp.yahoo.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/y.rout) with ESMTP id m1D5xmIV095740 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 21:59:48 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <47B28753.5090406@yahoo-inc.com> Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 21:59:47 -0800 From: Addison Phillips User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "'LTRU Working Group'" Subject: [Ltru] folding boundaries X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org In draft-11, we have this text in section 3.1.1 (file format) about folding: Folding is always done on Unicode default grapheme boundaries (that is, never in the middle of a multibyte UTF-8 sequence nor in the middle of a combining character sequence). Draft-12's editor's copy has: Folding is always done on a whitespace boundary. Some languages do not use whitespace between words: text in these languages appearing in the registry (typically in comments) will be wrapped arbitrarily between characters. I propose we use the draft-12 text. Addison -- Addison Phillips Globalization Architect -- Yahoo! Inc. Chair -- W3C Internationalization Core WG Internationalization is an architecture. It is not a feature. _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Tue Feb 12 22:01:43 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94A5C3A6F05; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 22:01:43 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.809 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.809 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.372, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id emAiDuhsSoWQ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 22:01:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E056E3A6F00; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 22:01:42 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8668C3A6EFC for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 22:01:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TqMI8I9Vp9VU for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 22:01:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from rsmtp2.corp.yahoo.com (rsmtp2.corp.yahoo.com [207.126.228.150]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE5693A6E9B for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 22:01:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.72.76.178] (snvvpn2-10-72-76-c178.corp.yahoo.com [10.72.76.178]) by rsmtp2.corp.yahoo.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/y.rout) with ESMTP id m1D62sqB095894 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 22:02:54 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <47B2880D.40200@yahoo-inc.com> Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 22:02:53 -0800 From: Addison Phillips User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "'LTRU Working Group'" Subject: [Ltru] addition of text on macrolanguages and supporting table X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org In Section 4.2 of the editor's copy of draft-12, we had previously inserted text suggested by John Cowan as follows: --- The pairs of macro and encompassed languages affected by this issue when this document was published were: Arabic 'ar' Standard Arabic 'arb' Konkani (macrolanguage) 'kok' Konkani (individual language) 'knn' Malay (macrolanguage) 'ms' Malay (individual language) 'mly' Swahili (macrolanguage) 'sw' Swahili (individual language) 'swh' Uzbek 'uz' Northern Uzbek 'uzn' Chinese 'zh' Mandarin Chinese 'cmn' Figure 8 -- I propose we do insert this text (although note that the table must be edited as several lines are too long). Addison -- Addison Phillips Globalization Architect -- Yahoo! Inc. Chair -- W3C Internationalization Core WG Internationalization is an architecture. It is not a feature. _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Tue Feb 12 22:03:25 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC0233A6F06; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 22:03:25 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.778 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.778 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.341, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iZIrOxim4Y0V; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 22:03:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0514B3A6EEE; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 22:03:22 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30CA33A6E9B for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 22:03:21 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6YW3hwcjsRmY for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 22:03:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from rsmtp2.corp.yahoo.com (rsmtp2.corp.yahoo.com [207.126.228.150]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7896C3A6C8C for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 22:03:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.72.76.178] (snvvpn2-10-72-76-c178.corp.yahoo.com [10.72.76.178]) by rsmtp2.corp.yahoo.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/y.rout) with ESMTP id m1D64e9k095966 for ; Tue, 12 Feb 2008 22:04:40 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <47B28877.7040602@yahoo-inc.com> Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 22:04:39 -0800 From: Addison Phillips User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "'LTRU Working Group'" Subject: [Ltru] end of edits... link to diff X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Hi, That's the end of the series of three messages on proposed changes. These were derived by generating the text of the current draft-12 I have and then running the diff. You can view the diff here: http://tinyurl.com/2sv2n5 Addison -- Addison Phillips Globalization Architect -- Yahoo! Inc. Chair -- W3C Internationalization Core WG Internationalization is an architecture. It is not a feature. _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 13 00:45:14 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC52528C183; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 00:45:14 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.274 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.274 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.187, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dfOLNPx7Jtze; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 00:45:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FB2228C71A; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 00:44:54 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9738C28C6F0 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 00:44:50 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id crWhdZyNQI9e for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 00:44:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx2.nic.fr (mx2.nic.fr [192.134.4.11]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44CBF28C6F9 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 00:44:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx2.nic.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mx2.nic.fr (Postfix) with SMTP id 94ED51C007E for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 09:45:28 +0100 (CET) Received: from relay2.nic.fr (relay2.nic.fr [192.134.4.163]) by mx2.nic.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 903821C0075 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 09:45:28 +0100 (CET) Received: from bortzmeyer.nic.fr (batilda.nic.fr [192.134.4.69]) by relay2.nic.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DC1A58ECC9 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 09:45:28 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 09:45:28 +0100 From: Stephane Bortzmeyer To: LTRU Working Group Message-ID: <20080213084528.GA13771@nic.fr> References: <002601c86ab4$6f974020$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <002601c86ab4$6f974020$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> X-Operating-System: Debian GNU/Linux 4.0 X-Kernel: Linux 2.6.18-6-686 i686 Organization: NIC France X-URL: http://www.nic.fr/ User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11) Subject: [Ltru] Some typos (Was: Begin LTRU WG last call on 4646bis and 4645bis X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org On Fri, Feb 08, 2008 at 04:40:57PM -0800, Randy Presuhn wrote = a message of 38 lines which said: > working group last call on two documents: > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ltru-4646bis-11.txt Some purely editorial comments: 1) The most important: "extended language subtags" or similar expressions appear in a lot of places despite extlang removal. Do we agree they should all be suppressed? (See for instance "Codes assigned by ISO 639-2 that do not conflict with existing three-letter primary or extended language subtags are entered into the IANA registry" or "Extension subtags MUST follow all language, extended language, script, region, and variant subtag" or, worse, "Extended language subtags MUST include exactly one 'Prefix' field".) 2) Now that extended language subtags are obsolete (before being used), do we want to retain the "primary language" terminology? It is a bit strange that we talk about "primary language subtags" while there is no secondary language subtags anymore. May be a 's/primary language subtag/language subtag/g' everywhere? 3) In 2.2.2 "Extended Language Subtags", add a reference to 2.2.9 "Classes of Conformance" because of the discussion on the 'extlang' production in 2.2.9. I suggest at the end of 2.2.2 "See also 2.2.9 for a discussion of the consequences of this decision on the grammar." 4) In 8, "It also permanently reserves and disallows the use of extlang subtags. The changes necessary to achieve this were: *=A0something". Replace "something" by: * New ABNF grammar excluding the "extlang" production (see 2.2.9) * New Macrolanguage field (see 3.1.9) 5) All references to RFC 4234 should be replaced by references to RFC 5234 (no consequences for us since we do not use LWSP) _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 13 01:01:03 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1CC928C680; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 01:01:03 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.705 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.705 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.268, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JrenETBP8lyN; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 01:01:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C2FE3A6F0F; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 01:01:00 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2E573A6F0F for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 01:00:58 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OXit6mob-VhG for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 01:00:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from ch-smtp01.sth.basefarm.net (ch-smtp01.sth.basefarm.net [80.76.149.212]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AF253A6DF7 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 01:00:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from c83-248-85-137.bredband.comhem.se ([83.248.85.137]:2533 helo=wgbgkka02x) by ch-smtp01.sth.basefarm.net with esmtp (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1JPDVR-0001m5-3W for ltru@ietf.org; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 10:02:17 +0100 From: "Kent Karlsson" To: "'LTRU Working Group'" References: <005501c86d46$dbd13b80$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81><01db01c86d5a$da0c1bd0$0554f853@streamserve.com><00ad01c86d86$b3268330$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81><001701c86d9f$ffb15ae0$8955f853@streamserve.com><00e401c86da7$6156bea0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer><005701c86dc4$38601e20$8955f853@streamserve.com> <003501c86dc9$c51e23c0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> <005e01c86dd2$5db1eb00$8955f853@streamserve.com> <47B28430.5010802@yahoo-inc.com> Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 10:02:11 +0100 Message-ID: <008301c86e1f$21884780$8955f853@streamserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 In-Reply-To: <47B28430.5010802@yahoo-inc.com> Thread-Index: AchuA94VzSfuPIZoQVCs8t4VZ2+B/wAGSJmA X-Originating-IP: 83.248.85.137 X-Scan-Result: No virus found in message 1JPDVR-0001m5-3W. X-Scan-Signature: ch-smtp01.sth.basefarm.net 1JPDVR-0001m5-3W b3050bc3416b43e8d0ec648496d43201 Subject: Re: [Ltru] The case against adding 'UK' X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Addison Phillips wrote: > Ur... are you sure? Adding 'UK' as a deprecated code has the > effect of > making tags such as "en-UK" valid (they are not now valid). That is the point. en-UK occurs in practice already, and, as I've already mentioned, it is not apparent that it is a breach of RFC 1766 to use "UK" as a region code in language tags. > I oppose making these changes because of the confusion that allowing > this special case would create. The invalidity of 'UK' is both > deliberate and good. Ideally there would be no aliases, and no "pure garbage" codes (like "eur", but I fear that 639-3 MA will not retire it in time). "UK" as a code is not garbage at all, and while ideally there should be no (deprecated, of course) aliases, this one falls in the same category as "iw" and a few other codes. Preexisting aliases for codes that stand for real 'items'. (Quite different from "eur" b.t.w.) > Alternatively, if we really must add it, a Comment really should be > included specifying exactly why it was included. No objection (but no more necessary than for e.g. "iw"). Perhaps: "Comment: Preexisting "exceptionally reserved" alias code, included for stability reasons." /kent k _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 13 04:51:12 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 029E728C77B; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 04:51:12 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.518 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.518 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.081, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id u0ojW0oYunfW; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 04:51:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67F0128C7A6; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 04:51:03 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95CEA28C7A6 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 04:51:01 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sm7rYk0VhBPf for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 04:51:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx1.nexbyte.net (132.nexbyte.net [62.197.41.132]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C32E728C76F for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 04:48:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from 145.nexbyte.net ([62.197.41.145]) by mx1.nexbyte.net (mx1.nexbyte.net [62.197.41.132]) (MDaemon PRO v9.6.4) with ESMTP id md50007776919.msg for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:56:51 +0000 X-Spam-Processed: mx1.nexbyte.net, Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:56:51 +0000 (not processed: message from trusted or authenticated source) X-MDRemoteIP: 62.197.41.145 X-Return-Path: prvs=19293cab6e=debbie@ictmarketing.co.uk X-Envelope-From: debbie@ictmarketing.co.uk X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: ltru@ietf.org Received: from CPQ86763045110 ([83.67.121.192]) by 145.nexbyte.net with MailEnable ESMTP; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:50:00 +0000 From: "Debbie Garside" To: "'Kent Karlsson'" , "'LTRU Working Group'" References: <005501c86d46$dbd13b80$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81><01db01c86d5a$da0c1bd0$0554f853@streamserve.com><00ad01c86d86$b3268330$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81><001701c86d9f$ffb15ae0$8955f853@streamserve.com><00e401c86da7$6156bea0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer><005701c86dc4$38601e20$8955f853@streamserve.com><003501c86dc9$c51e23c0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> <005e01c86dd2$5db1eb00$8955f853@streamserve.com> Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:50:00 -0000 Message-ID: <00b301c86e3e$f282df70$0a00a8c0@CPQ86763045110> X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <005e01c86dd2$5db1eb00$8955f853@streamserve.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 Thread-Index: AchtydBD99TbcQYzQDuLu/PFG2EqpgABF6KwABwsPOA= X-MDAV-Processed: mx1.nexbyte.net, Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:56:51 +0000 Subject: Re: [Ltru] The case against adding 'UK' X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list Reply-To: debbie@ictmarketing.co.uk List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org I agree with Kent. Best wishes Debbie Garside > -----Original Message----- > From: ltru-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ltru-bounces@ietf.org] On > Behalf Of Kent Karlsson > Sent: 12 February 2008 23:53 > To: 'LTRU Working Group' > Subject: Re: [Ltru] The case against adding 'UK' > > Randy Presuhn wrote: > > Our documents are in WG last call. The time for arm-waving > proposals > > is long past. If you want a change to either i-d, propose specific > > text. Unless proposing specific text, further posts on this thread > > are *not* welcome. If you think a change to the registry rules is > > desirable, PLEASE PROPOSE THE EXACT EDITS YOU WOULD LIKE TO > SEE. It's > > time to finish off this work so the rest of us can move on to > > interesting things. > > For 4645bis: > > 1) Replace > "UK" (United Kingdom) was not added because it is > associated with > the same UN M.49 code (826) as the existing region subtag "GB". > Section 3.4, item 14 (D) of [draft-ietf-ltru-4646bis-11] states > that a new region subtag is not added if it carries the same > meaning as an existing region subtag. > with > "UK" (United Kingdom) was added as deprecated with a preferred > value of "GB" because it is associated with the same UN M.49 > code (826) as the region subtag "GB" already in the registry. > One may read RFC 1766 as that exceptionally reserved region > subtags could be used, and they have been, so this an issue > of stability from what could be seen as valid per RFC 1766. > > 2) add the following lines in the list of subtag records: > %% > Type: region > Subtag: UK > Description: United Kingdom > Added: > Preferred-Value: GB > Deprecated: > > (the here should be the same in both instances > here and also be the same as for IC etc.) > > For 4646bis: > > 1) Replace > In addition, the codes that are > "exceptionally reserved" (as opposed to "assigned") in > ISO 3166-1 > were also defined in the registry, with the exception of 'UK', > which is an exact synonym for the assigned code 'GB'. > with > In addition, the codes that are > "exceptionally reserved" (as opposed to "assigned") in > ISO 3166-1 > were also defined in the registry. However, 'UK' is deprecated > because it is an exact synonym for the assigned code 'GB', thus > treating it in the same way as e.g. 'iw'. > > 2) Replace > reserved" ISO 3166-1 codes other than 'UK' were > included into the > with > reserved" ISO 3166-1 codes were included ('UK' as > deprecated) into the > > Note that I do not suggest that future aliases, if any, be > treated this way. > This is an exception, since the exceptional reservation of > 'UK' *for United Kingdom* (rather than be reserved for > nothing in particular) predates RFC 4646, and it stands for a > real region, and that one can interpret RFC 1766 as allowing > the use of 'UK' just as much as the use of e.g. 'iw'. > > /kent k > > _______________________________________________ > Ltru mailing list > Ltru@ietf.org > http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru > > > _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 13 07:50:10 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B692528C800; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 07:50:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.556 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.556 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.119, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fOAz-JhIaSVb; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 07:50:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0381D28C472; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 07:50:10 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD78628C800 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 07:50:07 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OXfnpkCrjkCz for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 07:50:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from mta11.adelphia.net (mta11.adelphia.net [68.168.78.205]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AA3C28C7FC for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 07:49:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from DGBP7M81 ([76.167.184.182]) by mta11.adelphia.net (InterMail vM.6.01.05.02 201-2131-123-102-20050715) with SMTP id <20080213155117.GQVS15146.mta11.adelphia.net@DGBP7M81> for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 10:51:17 -0500 Message-ID: <004e01c86e58$45f87f70$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> From: "Doug Ewell" To: "LTRU Working Group" References: Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 07:51:18 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 Subject: Re: [Ltru] preferred value of zh-hakka in Draft-4645bis X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Pj4gMy4gT3RoZXJzOgo+Pgo+PiBQcmVmZXJyZWQtVmFsdWU6IHpoLWhha2thCgpJJ20gbm90IHN1 cmUgd2hhdCBpcyBiZWluZyBwcm9wb3NlZCBoZXJlLiAgSWYgdGhlIHByb3Bvc2FsIGlzIHRvIGNo YW5nZSAKdGhlIFByZWZlcnJlZC1WYWx1ZSBvZiAiaS1oYWsiIGZyb20gInpoLWhha2thIiB0byAi aGFrIiAodGh1cyBhdm9pZGluZyAKdGhlIGNoYWluIG9mIFByZWZlcnJlZC1WYWx1ZXMpLCB0aGVu IHdlIGNhbm5vdCBkbyB0aGlzLiBTZWN0aW9uIDMuMSBvZiAKUkZDIDQ2NDYgYW5kIFNlY3Rpb24g My4xLjYgb2YgZHJhZnQtNDY0NmJpcyBib3RoIHNheSwgIlRoZSBmaWVsZCAKJ1ByZWZlcnJlZC1W YWx1ZScgTVVTVCBOT1QgYmUgbW9kaWZpZWQgb25jZSBjcmVhdGVkIGluIHRoZSByZWdpc3RyeS4i CgpJJ20gbm90IG9wcG9zZWQgaW4gcHJpbmNpcGxlIHRvIHRoaXMgY2hhbmdlIGFuZCB0aGUgc2lt aWxhciBvbmUgCmFwcGFyZW50bHkgcHJvcG9zZWQgZm9yICJ6aC1ndW95dSIsIGJ1dCB3ZSBoYXZl IHRvIGZvbGxvdyBvdXIgb3duIHJ1bGVzLCAKYW5kIHdlIG5lZWQgdG8gZGV0ZXJtaW5lIHdoeSB3 ZSBtYWRlIHRoYXQgcGFydGljdWxhciBydWxlIGJlZm9yZSAKcmV2b2tpbmcgaXQgdG8gc3VpdCB0 aGVzZSBjYXNlcy4KCi0tCkRvdWcgRXdlbGwgICogIEZ1bGxlcnRvbiwgQ2FsaWZvcm5pYSwgVVNB ICAqICBSRkMgNDY0NSAgKiAgVVROICMxNApodHRwOi8vd3d3LmV3ZWxsaWMub3JnCmh0dHA6Ly93 d3cxLmlldGYub3JnL2h0bWwuY2hhcnRlcnMvbHRydS1jaGFydGVyLmh0bWwKaHR0cDovL3d3dy5h bHZlc3RyYW5kLm5vL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vaWV0Zi1sYW5ndWFnZXMgIMuGCgpfX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXwpMdHJ1IG1haWxpbmcgbGlz dApMdHJ1QGlldGYub3JnCmh0dHA6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9sdHJ1 Cg== From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 13 07:53:07 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58BAD28C815; 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Wed, 13 Feb 2008 07:53:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from mta10.adelphia.net (mta10.adelphia.net [68.168.78.202]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B9B028C472 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 07:53:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from DGBP7M81 ([76.167.184.182]) by mta10.adelphia.net (InterMail vM.6.01.05.02 201-2131-123-102-20050715) with SMTP id <20080213155427.HZZS22143.mta10.adelphia.net@DGBP7M81> for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 10:54:27 -0500 Message-ID: <005501c86e58$b70896f0$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> From: "Doug Ewell" To: "LTRU Working Group" References: Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 07:54:27 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 Subject: Re: [Ltru] replacement for grandfathered items in Draft-4645bis X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; 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Wed, 13 Feb 2008 07:53:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from mta3.adelphia.net (mta3.adelphia.net [68.168.78.181]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3B4D28C800 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 07:53:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from DGBP7M81 ([76.167.184.182]) by mta10.adelphia.net (InterMail vM.6.01.05.02 201-2131-123-102-20050715) with SMTP id <20080213155125.HXFB22143.mta10.adelphia.net@DGBP7M81> for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 10:51:25 -0500 Message-ID: <004f01c86e58$4a2e39e0$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> From: "Doug Ewell" To: "LTRU Working Group" References: Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 07:51:25 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 Subject: Re: [Ltru] preferred-value of zh-cmn in draft-4645bis X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Pj4gMy4gT3RoZXJzOgo+IC4uLgo+PiBQcmVmZXJyZWQtVmFsdWU6IHpoLWNtbgoKSSdtIG5vdCBz dXJlIHdoYXQgaXMgYmVpbmcgcHJvcG9zZWQgaGVyZS4gIElmIHRoZSBwcm9wb3NhbCBpcyB0byBj aGFuZ2UgCnRoZSBQcmVmZXJyZWQtVmFsdWUgb2YgInpoLWd1b3l1IiBmcm9tICJ6aC1jbW4iIHRv ICJjbW4iICh0aHVzIGF2b2lkaW5nIAp0aGUgY2hhaW4gb2YgUHJlZmVycmVkLVZhbHVlcyksIHRo ZW4gd2UgY2Fubm90IGRvIHRoaXMuIFNlY3Rpb24gMy4xIG9mIApSRkMgNDY0NiBhbmQgU2VjdGlv biAzLjEuNiBvZiBkcmFmdC00NjQ2YmlzIGJvdGggc2F5LCAiVGhlIGZpZWxkIAonUHJlZmVycmVk LVZhbHVlJyBNVVNUIE5PVCBiZSBtb2RpZmllZCBvbmNlIGNyZWF0ZWQgaW4gdGhlIHJlZ2lzdHJ5 LiIKCi0tCkRvdWcgRXdlbGwgICogIEZ1bGxlcnRvbiwgQ2FsaWZvcm5pYSwgVVNBICAqICBSRkMg NDY0NSAgKiAgVVROICMxNApodHRwOi8vd3d3LmV3ZWxsaWMub3JnCmh0dHA6Ly93d3cxLmlldGYu b3JnL2h0bWwuY2hhcnRlcnMvbHRydS1jaGFydGVyLmh0bWwKaHR0cDovL3d3dy5hbHZlc3RyYW5k Lm5vL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vaWV0Zi1sYW5ndWFnZXMgIMuGCgpfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXwpMdHJ1IG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdApMdHJ1QGll dGYub3JnCmh0dHA6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9sdHJ1Cg== From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 13 07:56:35 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 456EE28C7D0; 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Wed, 13 Feb 2008 07:56:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from mta11.adelphia.net (mta11.adelphia.net [68.168.78.205]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 857A428C7D0 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 07:56:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from DGBP7M81 ([76.167.184.182]) by mta11.adelphia.net (InterMail vM.6.01.05.02 201-2131-123-102-20050715) with SMTP id <20080213155755.GXMD15146.mta11.adelphia.net@DGBP7M81> for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 10:57:55 -0500 Message-ID: <005b01c86e59$32c9a680$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> From: "Doug Ewell" To: "LTRU Working Group" References: Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 07:57:55 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 Subject: Re: [Ltru] preferred value zh-min X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org UmFuZHkgUHJlc3VobiA8cmFuZHkgdW5kZXJzY29yZSBwcmVzdWhuIGF0IG1pbmRzcHJpbmcgZG90 IGNvbT4gd3JvdGU6Cgo+PiBUeXBlOiBncmFuZGZhdGhlcmVkCj4+IFRhZzogemgtbWluCj4+IERl c2NyaXB0aW9uOiBNaW4sIEZ1emhvdSwgSG9ra2llbiwgQW1veSwgb3IgVGFpd2FuZXNlCj4+IEFk ZGVkOiAxOTk5LTEyLTE4Cj4+IERlcHJlY2F0ZWQ6IDIwMjktMDktMDkKPj4gJSUKPj4KPj4gVGhp cyBzaG91bGQgaGF2ZSB0aGUgUHJlZmVycmVkLVZhbHVlOiBtaW4KPiAuLi4KPgo+IEFzIEkgcmVh ZCB0aGUgdGhyZWFkIHRoZSByb3VnaCBjb25zZW5zdXMgaXMgdG8gKm5vdCogbWFrZQo+IHRoZSBw cm9wb3NlZCBjaGFuZ2UuCgpOb3Qgb25seSB0aGF0LCB0aGVyZSBpcyBhIHBhcmFncmFwaCBpbiBT ZWN0aW9uIDIuNSBvZiBkcmFmdC00NjQ1YmlzIHRoYXQgCnNwZWNpZmljYWxseSBkZXNjcmliZXMg dGhpcyBjYXNlIGFuZCB3aHkgaXQgaXMgdGhlIHdheSBpdCBpcy4gIFBsZWFzZSAKY2xvc2UgdGhp cy4KCi0tCkRvdWcgRXdlbGwgICogIEZ1bGxlcnRvbiwgQ2FsaWZvcm5pYSwgVVNBICAqICBSRkMg NDY0NSAgKiAgVVROICMxNApodHRwOi8vd3d3LmV3ZWxsaWMub3JnCmh0dHA6Ly93d3cxLmlldGYu b3JnL2h0bWwuY2hhcnRlcnMvbHRydS1jaGFydGVyLmh0bWwKaHR0cDovL3d3dy5hbHZlc3RyYW5k Lm5vL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vaWV0Zi1sYW5ndWFnZXMgIMuGCgpfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXwpMdHJ1IG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdApMdHJ1QGll dGYub3JnCmh0dHA6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9sdHJ1Cg== From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 13 08:06:49 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D33A28C8A8; 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Wed, 13 Feb 2008 08:06:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from mta11.adelphia.net (mta11.adelphia.net [68.168.78.205]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C8A328C919 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 08:05:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from DGBP7M81 ([76.167.184.182]) by mta11.adelphia.net (InterMail vM.6.01.05.02 201-2131-123-102-20050715) with SMTP id <20080213160718.HFWU15146.mta11.adelphia.net@DGBP7M81> for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 11:07:18 -0500 Message-ID: <006101c86e5a$82b4d420$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> From: "Doug Ewell" To: "LTRU Working Group" References: Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 08:07:19 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 Subject: Re: [Ltru] The case against adding 'UK' X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; 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Wed, 13 Feb 2008 08:49:34 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.596 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.596 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.589, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, HTML_MESSAGE=1, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PSWw42m8ieLH; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 08:49:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C74E28C87A; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 08:49:28 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88C9C28C87A for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 08:49:27 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Rwhk6AGvr+Db for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 08:49:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from el-out-1112.google.com (el-out-1112.google.com [209.85.162.177]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46A6628C7F2 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 08:49:26 -0800 (PST) Received: by el-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id j27so101005elf.25 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 08:50:49 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.142.213.9 with SMTP id l9mr106255wfg.104.1202921448112; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 08:50:48 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.143.174.8 with HTTP; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 08:50:47 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <30b660a20802130850i71004552yc5de3582385b1c9a@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 08:50:47 -0800 From: "Mark Davis" To: "Doug Ewell" In-Reply-To: <005501c86e58$b70896f0$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <005501c86e58$b70896f0$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> X-Google-Sender-Auth: b5b35b681772ac18 Cc: LTRU Working Group Subject: Re: [Ltru] replacement for grandfathered items in Draft-4645bis X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; 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charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru --===============0914593918==-- From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 13 08:50:52 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3994C28C8E1; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 08:50:52 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.602 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.602 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.583, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, HTML_MESSAGE=1, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zr8X7blWXNtL; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 08:50:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BCFE28C87A; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 08:50:51 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 063DF3A6BE9 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 08:50:50 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PDhuINQvHv4V for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 08:50:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from el-out-1112.google.com (el-out-1112.google.com [209.85.162.176]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F69E3A6F53 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 08:50:48 -0800 (PST) Received: by el-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id j27so101594elf.25 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 08:52:11 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.142.115.10 with SMTP id n10mr130562wfc.19.1202921530403; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 08:52:10 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.143.174.8 with HTTP; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 08:52:10 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <30b660a20802130852j5bbd30e0m3719b79c2042b7c1@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 08:52:10 -0800 From: "Mark Davis" To: "Doug Ewell" In-Reply-To: <004e01c86e58$45f87f70$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <004e01c86e58$45f87f70$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 33c0c0fe1314e49e Cc: LTRU Working Group Subject: Re: [Ltru] preferred value of zh-hakka in Draft-4645bis X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; 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charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru --===============0217810717==-- From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 13 08:53:45 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4107328C91A; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 08:53:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.437 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.437 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id faBc22HnS5yR; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 08:53:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F1613A6F65; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 08:53:44 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE3C03A6F53 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 08:53:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id M2e2-+STYCSf for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 08:53:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from earth.ccil.org (unknown [192.190.237.11]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 057BB3A6BE9 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 08:53:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from cowan by earth.ccil.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1JPKsu-0003UF-91; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 11:55:00 -0500 Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 11:55:00 -0500 To: Mark Davis Message-ID: <20080213165500.GC7215@mercury.ccil.org> References: <005501c86e58$b70896f0$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> <30b660a20802130850i71004552yc5de3582385b1c9a@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <30b660a20802130850i71004552yc5de3582385b1c9a@mail.gmail.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11) From: John Cowan Cc: Doug Ewell , LTRU Working Group Subject: Re: [Ltru] replacement for grandfathered items in Draft-4645bis X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Mark Davis scripsit: > I understand that. The question I'm raising is whether there are any 639-3 > codes that correspond to these, so that we can remove them. If there aren't > any, that's fine. There aren't any. For particulars, see my earlier post. -- Unless it was by accident that I had John Cowan offended someone, I never apologized. cowan@ccil.org --Quentin Crisp http://www.ccil.org/~cowan _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 13 08:55:13 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B0193A6F80; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 08:55:13 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.437 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.437 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id h8UkYGdUAOLJ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 08:55:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88E3B28C91A; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 08:55:08 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D294328C91A for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 08:55:06 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 61U3bdNdFK3G for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 08:55:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from earth.ccil.org (unknown [192.190.237.11]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8B863A6BE9 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 08:53:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from cowan by earth.ccil.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1JPKtG-0003bq-FD; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 11:55:22 -0500 Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 11:55:22 -0500 To: Mark Davis Message-ID: <20080213165522.GD7215@mercury.ccil.org> References: <004e01c86e58$45f87f70$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> <30b660a20802130852j5bbd30e0m3719b79c2042b7c1@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <30b660a20802130852j5bbd30e0m3719b79c2042b7c1@mail.gmail.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11) From: John Cowan Cc: Doug Ewell , LTRU Working Group Subject: Re: [Ltru] preferred value of zh-hakka in Draft-4645bis X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Mark Davis scripsit: > What I suggest doing is adding a comment for the Preferred-Values that are > themselves recursively eliminated. +1 -- A rose by any other name John Cowan may smell as sweet, http://www.ccil.org/~cowan but if you called it an onion cowan@ccil.org you'd get cooks very confused. --RMS _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 13 08:58:38 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C56B28C8F6; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 08:58:38 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.758 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.758 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.426, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, HTML_MESSAGE=1, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id v9wBcHWxYZKH; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 08:58:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 897473A6F65; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 08:58:37 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A17623A6F65 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 08:58:36 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hJLC6jCAm9ht for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 08:58:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from rn-out-0910.google.com (rn-out-0910.google.com [64.233.170.188]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E9893A6BE9 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 08:58:35 -0800 (PST) Received: by rn-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id a46so161785rne.10 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 08:59:58 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.142.76.4 with SMTP id y4mr136536wfa.31.1202921996698; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 08:59:56 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.143.174.8 with HTTP; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 08:59:56 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <30b660a20802130859n7cb1c324v31dac9b1473e7aa3@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 08:59:56 -0800 From: "Mark Davis" To: "Addison Phillips" In-Reply-To: <47B28753.5090406@yahoo-inc.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <47B28753.5090406@yahoo-inc.com> X-Google-Sender-Auth: fce7980e6e757307 Cc: LTRU Working Group Subject: Re: [Ltru] folding boundaries X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0294812706==" Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org --===============0294812706== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_26439_32069799.1202921996660" ------=_Part_26439_32069799.1202921996660 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline The first line contradicts the rest. And I don't think that we need to provide a precise specification of folding. My suggestion: Folding is done according to customary conventions for line-wrapping. This is typically on whitespace boundaries, but may break between other characters where a language does not use whitespace between words. For more information, see [UAX14]. Mark On Feb 12, 2008 9:59 PM, Addison Phillips wrote: > In draft-11, we have this text in section 3.1.1 (file format) about > folding: > > Folding is always done on > Unicode default grapheme boundaries (that is, never in the middle of > a multibyte UTF-8 sequence nor in the middle of a combining character > sequence). > > Draft-12's editor's copy has: > > Folding is always done on > a whitespace boundary. Some languages do not use whitespace between > words: text in these languages appearing in the registry (typically > in comments) will be wrapped arbitrarily between characters. > > I propose we use the draft-12 text. > > Addison > > -- > Addison Phillips > Globalization Architect -- Yahoo! Inc. > Chair -- W3C Internationalization Core WG > > Internationalization is an architecture. > It is not a feature. > _______________________________________________ > Ltru mailing list > Ltru@ietf.org > http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru > -- Mark ------=_Part_26439_32069799.1202921996660 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline The first line contradicts the rest. And I don't think that we need to provide a precise specification of folding. My suggestion:

Folding is done according to customary conventions for line-wrapping. This is typically on whitespace boundaries, but may break between other characters where a language does not use whitespace between words. For more information, see [UAX14].

Mark

On Feb 12, 2008 9:59 PM, Addison Phillips <addison@yahoo-inc.com> wrote:
In draft-11, we have this text in section 3.1.1 (file format) about folding:

   Folding is always done on
   Unicode default grapheme boundaries (that is, never in the middle of
   a multibyte UTF-8 sequence nor in the middle of a combining character
   sequence).

Draft-12's editor's copy has:

   Folding is always done on
   a whitespace boundary.  Some languages do not use whitespace between
   words: text in these languages appearing in the registry (typically
   in comments) will be wrapped arbitrarily between characters.

I propose we use the draft-12 text.

Addison

--
Addison Phillips
Globalization Architect -- Yahoo! Inc.
Chair -- W3C Internationalization Core WG

Internationalization is an architecture.
It is not a feature.
_______________________________________________
Ltru mailing list
Ltru@ietf.org
http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru



--
Mark ------=_Part_26439_32069799.1202921996660-- --===============0294812706== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru --===============0294812706==-- From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 13 09:00:17 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A345228C960; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 09:00:17 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.69 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.69 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.495, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, HTML_MESSAGE=1, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IoczlsDNzHnj; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 09:00:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D727128C95F; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 09:00:08 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 708B228C929 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 09:00:04 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7cDRxhsB6n3R for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 09:00:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from el-out-1112.google.com (el-out-1112.google.com [209.85.162.179]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07DF828C924 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 08:59:05 -0800 (PST) Received: by el-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id j27so105407elf.25 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 09:00:29 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.142.229.4 with SMTP id b4mr110552wfh.125.1202922028226; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 09:00:28 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.143.174.8 with HTTP; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 09:00:28 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <30b660a20802130900r21dd61bap83c17a26fe4eda55@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 09:00:28 -0800 From: "Mark Davis" To: "John Cowan" In-Reply-To: <20080213165500.GC7215@mercury.ccil.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <005501c86e58$b70896f0$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> <30b660a20802130850i71004552yc5de3582385b1c9a@mail.gmail.com> <20080213165500.GC7215@mercury.ccil.org> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 0664401769ec4ce2 Cc: Doug Ewell , LTRU Working Group Subject: Re: [Ltru] replacement for grandfathered items in Draft-4645bis X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1031963058==" Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org --===============1031963058== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_26448_4833625.1202922028182" ------=_Part_26448_4833625.1202922028182 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Ok, thanks. On Feb 13, 2008 8:55 AM, John Cowan wrote: > Mark Davis scripsit: > > I understand that. The question I'm raising is whether there are any > 639-3 > > codes that correspond to these, so that we can remove them. If there > aren't > > any, that's fine. > > There aren't any. For particulars, see my earlier post. > > -- > Unless it was by accident that I had John Cowan > offended someone, I never apologized. cowan@ccil.org > --Quentin Crisp http://www.ccil.org/~cowan > -- Mark ------=_Part_26448_4833625.1202922028182 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Ok, thanks.

On Feb 13, 2008 8:55 AM, John Cowan <cowan@ccil.org> wrote:
Mark Davis scripsit:
> I understand that. The question I'm raising is whether there are any 639-3
> codes that correspond to these, so that we can remove them. If there aren't
> any, that's fine.

There aren't any.  For particulars, see my earlier post.

--
Unless it was by accident that I had            John Cowan
offended someone, I never apologized.           cowan@ccil.org
       --Quentin Crisp                         http://www.ccil.org/~cowan



--
Mark ------=_Part_26448_4833625.1202922028182-- --===============1031963058== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru --===============1031963058==-- From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 13 09:06:30 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8821128C87A; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 09:06:30 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.775 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.775 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.410, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, HTML_MESSAGE=1, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LYRLpY9e+4SM; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 09:06:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98DD428C80B; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 09:06:29 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66DB728C727 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 09:06:28 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id D7VfffKFBPWW for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 09:06:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from el-out-1112.google.com (el-out-1112.google.com [209.85.162.180]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5752028C755 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 09:06:26 -0800 (PST) Received: by el-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id j27so108696elf.25 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 09:07:49 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.142.216.9 with SMTP id o9mr94694wfg.226.1202922468517; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 09:07:48 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.143.174.8 with HTTP; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 09:07:48 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <30b660a20802130907w58b3defcj48d1286b080d2f2@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 09:07:48 -0800 From: "Mark Davis" To: "Addison Phillips" In-Reply-To: <30b660a20802130859n7cb1c324v31dac9b1473e7aa3@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <47B28753.5090406@yahoo-inc.com> <30b660a20802130859n7cb1c324v31dac9b1473e7aa3@mail.gmail.com> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 72d557925a0345ec Cc: LTRU Working Group Subject: Re: [Ltru] folding boundaries X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1313950880==" Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org --===============1313950880== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_26522_14004430.1202922468440" ------=_Part_26522_14004430.1202922468440 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Other than this one, I agree with all your edits. Mark On Feb 13, 2008 8:59 AM, Mark Davis wrote: > The first line contradicts the rest. And I don't think that we need to > provide a precise specification of folding. My suggestion: > > Folding is done according to customary conventions for line-wrapping. This > is typically on whitespace boundaries, but may break between other > characters where a language does not use whitespace between words. For more > information, see [UAX14]. > > Mark > > > On Feb 12, 2008 9:59 PM, Addison Phillips wrote: > > > In draft-11, we have this text in section 3.1.1 (file format) about > > folding: > > > > Folding is always done on > > Unicode default grapheme boundaries (that is, never in the middle of > > a multibyte UTF-8 sequence nor in the middle of a combining character > > sequence). > > > > Draft-12's editor's copy has: > > > > Folding is always done on > > a whitespace boundary. Some languages do not use whitespace between > > words: text in these languages appearing in the registry (typically > > in comments) will be wrapped arbitrarily between characters. > > > > I propose we use the draft-12 text. > > > > Addison > > > > -- > > Addison Phillips > > Globalization Architect -- Yahoo! Inc. > > Chair -- W3C Internationalization Core WG > > > > Internationalization is an architecture. > > It is not a feature. > > _______________________________________________ > > Ltru mailing list > > Ltru@ietf.org > > http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru > > > > > > -- > Mark -- Mark ------=_Part_26522_14004430.1202922468440 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Other than this one, I agree with all your edits.

Mark

On Feb 13, 2008 8:59 AM, Mark Davis <mark.davis@icu-project.org> wrote:
The first line contradicts the rest. And I don't think that we need to provide a precise specification of folding. My suggestion:

Folding is done according to customary conventions for line-wrapping. This is typically on whitespace boundaries, but may break between other characters where a language does not use whitespace between words. For more information, see [UAX14].

Mark


On Feb 12, 2008 9:59 PM, Addison Phillips <addison@yahoo-inc.com> wrote:
In draft-11, we have this text in section 3.1.1 (file format) about folding:

   Folding is always done on
   Unicode default grapheme boundaries (that is, never in the middle of
   a multibyte UTF-8 sequence nor in the middle of a combining character
   sequence).

Draft-12's editor's copy has:

   Folding is always done on
   a whitespace boundary.  Some languages do not use whitespace between
   words: text in these languages appearing in the registry (typically
   in comments) will be wrapped arbitrarily between characters.

I propose we use the draft-12 text.

Addison

--
Addison Phillips
Globalization Architect -- Yahoo! Inc.
Chair -- W3C Internationalization Core WG

Internationalization is an architecture.
It is not a feature.
_______________________________________________
Ltru mailing list
Ltru@ietf.org
http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru



--
Mark



--
Mark ------=_Part_26522_14004430.1202922468440-- --===============1313950880== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru --===============1313950880==-- From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 13 10:15:53 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65AFC3A6FA0; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 10:15:53 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.896 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.081, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, HTML_MESSAGE=1, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bR6OIXvju3Et; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 10:15:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F25DC28C7F2; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 10:15:51 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12C0F3A6D20 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 10:15:51 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hHHzrdLY1KRw for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 10:15:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from ag-out-0708.google.com (ag-out-0708.google.com [72.14.246.242]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D32443A6A9A for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 10:15:49 -0800 (PST) Received: by ag-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id 33so4347955agc.1 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 10:17:12 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.142.125.5 with SMTP id x5mr181937wfc.191.1202926630643; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 10:17:10 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.143.174.8 with HTTP; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 10:17:10 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <30b660a20802131017i4565981s2d0d7ad746359a39@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 10:17:10 -0800 From: "Mark Davis" To: "Stephane Bortzmeyer" In-Reply-To: <20080213084528.GA13771@nic.fr> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <002601c86ab4$6f974020$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> <20080213084528.GA13771@nic.fr> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 48412a833eae443c Cc: LTRU Working Group Subject: Re: [Ltru] Some typos (Was: Begin LTRU WG last call on 4646bis and 4645bis X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1754886866==" Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org --===============1754886866== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_26953_9303278.1202926630591" ------=_Part_26953_9303278.1202926630591 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline On Feb 13, 2008 12:45 AM, Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote: > On Fri, Feb 08, 2008 at 04:40:57PM -0800, > Randy Presuhn wrote > a message of 38 lines which said: > > > working group last call on two documents: > > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ltru-4646bis-11.txt > > Some purely editorial comments: > > 1) The most important: "extended language subtags" or similar > expressions appear in a lot of places despite extlang removal. Do we > agree they should all be suppressed? (See for instance "Codes assigned > by ISO 639-2 that do not conflict with existing three-letter primary > or extended language subtags are entered into the IANA registry" or > "Extension subtags MUST follow all language, extended language, > script, region, and variant subtag" or, worse, "Extended language > subtags MUST include exactly one 'Prefix' field".) +1 > > > 2) Now that extended language subtags are obsolete (before being > used), do we want to retain the "primary language" terminology? It is > a bit strange that we talk about "primary language subtags" while > there is no secondary language subtags anymore. May be a 's/primary > language subtag/language subtag/g' everywhere? I'm of two minds about this. Formally, that's true, but it may be worth retaining the 'primary' because one could think of a language tag as being composed of a sequence of "language subtags". We don't, but someone could. So it might be worth retaining the 'primary' for clarity. > > 3) In 2.2.2 "Extended Language Subtags", add a reference to 2.2.9 > "Classes of Conformance" because of the discussion on the 'extlang' > production in 2.2.9. I suggest at the end of 2.2.2 "See also 2.2.9 for > a discussion of the consequences of this decision on the grammar." +1 > > > 4) In 8, "It also permanently reserves and disallows the use of > extlang subtags. The changes necessary to achieve this were: > * something". Replace "something" by: > > * New ABNF grammar excluding the "extlang" production (see 2.2.9) > * New Macrolanguage field (see 3.1.9) +1 > > > 5) All references to RFC 4234 should be replaced by references to RFC > 5234 (no consequences for us since we do not use LWSP) 0 > > > _______________________________________________ > Ltru mailing list > Ltru@ietf.org > http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru > -- Mark ------=_Part_26953_9303278.1202926630591 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline

On Feb 13, 2008 12:45 AM, Stephane Bortzmeyer <bortzmeyer@nic.fr> wrote:
On Fri, Feb 08, 2008 at 04:40:57PM -0800,
 Randy Presuhn <randy_presuhn@mindspring.com> wrote
 a message of 38 lines which said:

> working group last call on two documents:
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ltru-4646bis-11.txt

Some purely editorial comments:

1) The most important: "extended language subtags" or similar
expressions appear in a lot of places despite extlang removal. Do we
agree they should all be suppressed? (See for instance "Codes assigned
by ISO 639-2 that do not conflict with existing three-letter primary
or extended language subtags are entered into the IANA registry" or
"Extension subtags MUST follow all language, extended language,
script, region, and variant subtag" or, worse, "Extended language
subtags MUST include exactly one 'Prefix' field".)

+1
 


2) Now that extended language subtags are obsolete (before being
used), do we want to retain the "primary language" terminology? It is
a bit strange that we talk about "primary language subtags" while
there is no secondary language subtags anymore. May be a 's/primary
language subtag/language subtag/g' everywhere?

I'm of two minds about this. Formally, that's true, but it may be worth retaining the 'primary' because one could think of a language tag as being composed of a sequence of "language subtags". We don't, but someone could. So it might be worth retaining the 'primary' for clarity.



3) In 2.2.2 "Extended Language Subtags", add a reference to 2.2.9
"Classes of Conformance" because of the discussion on the 'extlang'
production in 2.2.9. I suggest at the end of 2.2.2 "See also 2.2.9 for
a discussion of the consequences of this decision on the grammar."

+1


4) In 8, "It also permanently reserves and disallows the use of
extlang subtags.  The changes necessary to achieve this were:
* something". Replace "something" by:

* New ABNF grammar excluding the "extlang" production (see 2.2.9)
* New Macrolanguage field (see 3.1.9)

+1


5) All references to RFC 4234 should be replaced by references to RFC
5234 (no consequences for us since we do not use LWSP)

0




_______________________________________________
Ltru mailing list
Ltru@ietf.org
http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru



--
Mark ------=_Part_26953_9303278.1202926630591-- --===============1754886866== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru --===============1754886866==-- From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 13 10:40:56 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F058628C99B; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 10:40:56 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.978 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.978 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-2.540, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5fOCPfJmqXTl; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 10:40:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D40228C946; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 10:40:47 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E66C28CA05 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 10:40:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OpfSa0SpPTea for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 10:40:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.microsoft.com (mailb.microsoft.com [131.107.115.215]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2679628C8CC for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 10:40:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from tk1-exhub-c103.redmond.corp.microsoft.com (157.56.116.114) by TK5-EXGWY-E802.partners.extranet.microsoft.com (10.251.56.168) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.1.240.5; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 10:41:30 -0800 Received: from NA-EXMSG-C116.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.62.41]) by tk1-exhub-c103.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.56.116.114]) with mapi; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 10:41:30 -0800 From: Shawn Steele To: Doug Ewell , LTRU Working Group Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 10:41:28 -0800 Thread-Topic: [Ltru] preferred-value of zh-cmn in draft-4645bis Thread-Index: AchuWM9G8ERqmuOOSkeYzJPYBYEGZQAFvdUQ Message-ID: References: <004f01c86e58$4a2e39e0$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> In-Reply-To: <004f01c86e58$4a2e39e0$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [Ltru] preferred-value of zh-cmn in draft-4645bis X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org > >> 3. Others: > > ... > >> Preferred-Value: zh-cmn > I'm not sure what is being proposed here. If the proposal is to change > the Preferred-Value of "zh-guoyu" from "zh-cmn" to "cmn" (thus avoiding > the chain of Preferred-Values), then we cannot do this. Section 3.1 of > RFC 4646 and Section 3.1.6 of draft-4646bis both say, "The field > 'Preferred-Value' MUST NOT be modified once created in the registry." IMO saying the "preferred-value" MUST NOT change, would also mean that its end result MUST NOT change. Ie: The chain can't change. If you're willing to change the chain, then changing the actual value has no practical difference, since the end result (cmn) is the same. - Shawn _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 13 10:52:02 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 535B03A6D6E; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 10:52:02 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.726 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.726 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.289, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dW6faPhz+j1B; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 10:52:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81DCC3A67D9; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 10:52:01 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B9B83A67D6 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 10:52:00 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id llAgBbK3Hwes for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 10:51:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from ch-smtp02.sth.basefarm.net (ch-smtp02.sth.basefarm.net [80.76.149.213]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A1BB3A67D9 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 10:51:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from c83-248-85-137.bredband.comhem.se ([83.248.85.137]:4284 helo=wgbgkka02x) by ch-smtp02.sth.basefarm.net with esmtp (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1JPMjQ-0005xj-91; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 19:53:21 +0100 From: "Kent Karlsson" To: "'Doug Ewell'" , "'LTRU Working Group'" References: <006101c86e5a$82b4d420$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 19:53:13 +0100 Message-ID: <00bb01c86e71$b31e0cf0$8955f853@streamserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 In-Reply-To: <006101c86e5a$82b4d420$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> Thread-Index: AchuWqQkG5/NJJp+QC6CFQztKceQXAAFqq5Q X-Originating-IP: 83.248.85.137 X-Scan-Result: No virus found in message 1JPMjQ-0005xj-91. X-Scan-Signature: ch-smtp02.sth.basefarm.net 1JPMjQ-0005xj-91 ad49e619de838ab34793e743ca37cc6d Subject: Re: [Ltru] The case against adding 'UK' X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Doug Ewell wrote: > If we add 'UK' to the Registry, what is the remaining > justification for > keeping Section 3.4, item 14 (D) of draft-4646bis, which states that > duplicate ISO 3166-1 code elements are not added? That section is still valid, and should be kept, but does not apply in this case as "UK" is not a by ISO 3166-1 MA newly assigned code. /kent k _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 13 11:01:08 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 653853A6F96; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 11:01:08 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.481 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.481 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.666, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id diXcOTHw4STk; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 11:01:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0C963A684D; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 11:01:03 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D02123A6F96 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 11:01:01 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RO6JIqp8gfiO for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 11:01:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from ag-out-0708.google.com (ag-out-0708.google.com [72.14.246.248]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CC743A6949 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 10:59:52 -0800 (PST) Received: by ag-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id 33so4436915agc.1 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 11:01:14 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.142.84.3 with SMTP id h3mr273475wfb.34.1202929272971; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 11:01:12 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.143.174.8 with HTTP; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 11:01:12 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <30b660a20802131101h3f58fa4bh6730cc706ad2d9d9@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 11:01:12 -0800 From: "Mark Davis" To: "LTRU Working Group" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline X-Google-Sender-Auth: 6fc15f8b239299f5 Subject: [Ltru] Proposed edits (davis) X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org I went through the document a final time. It is in very good shape, thanks to the many contributions on this list. I do have the following suggested edits, numbered for reference. My notes are in [...] Mark ----- MD1 values are not recognized. Thus, a parser need not have an up-to- date copy (or any copy at all) of the subtag registry to perform most searching and matching operations. => values are not recognized. Thus, a parser need not have an up-to- date copy (or any copy at all) of the subtag registry to perform common searching and matching operations. [most => common] --------- MD2 language = (2*3ALPHA) ; shortest ISO 639 code / 4ALPHA ; reserved for future use / 5*8ALPHA ; registered language subtag => language = (2*3ALPHA) ; shortest ISO 639 code / 4ALPHA ; reserved for possible future use / 5*8ALPHA ; registered language subtag [insert 'possible', matching description below.] ----- MD3 appropriate) in forming a language tag with the variant. That is, each of the subtags in the prefix SHOULD appear before the variant. For example, the subtag 'nedis' has a Prefix of "sl", making it => appropriate) in forming a language tag with the variant. That is, each of the subtags in the prefix SHOULD appear, in order, before the variant. For example, the subtag 'nedis' has a Prefix of "sl", making it [add 'in order'] ------ MD4 For example: Users who wished to utilize codes from the Ethnologue publication of SIL International for language identification might agree to exchange tags such as "az-Arab-x-AZE-derbend". This example contains two private use subtags. The first is 'AZE' and the second is 'derbend'. => For example: The Unicode Consortium defines a set of private use extensions in LDML (Locale Data Markup Language), such as en-US-x-ldml-POSIX-k-calendar-islamic-k-colStren-secondar, which indicates that en-US is being used, but with the (non-standard) POSIX variant is being used, and that formatting of dates should use the islamic calendar, with case being ignored in sorted lists. For more information, see [LDML]. [Reason: replace a hypothetical example with a real one.] ----- MD5 to validate the tag. A more-recent copy of the registry might => to validate the tag. A more recent copy of the registry might [typo] ----- MD6 The first record in the registry is a "File-Date" record. This record contains the single field whose field-name is "File-Date" (see Figure 4). The field-body of this record contains the last modification date of this copy of the registry, making it possible to compare different versions of the registry. The registry on the IANA website is the most current. Versions with an older date than that one are not up-to-date. File-Date: 2004-06-28 %% => The first record in the registry is a "File-Date" record. This record contains a required first field whose field-name is "File-Date" (see Figure 4). The field-body of File-Date contains the last modification date of this copy of the registry, making it possible to compare different versions of the registry. The registry on the IANA website is the most current. Versions with an older date than that one are not up-to-date. Subsequent fields in the File-Date record are optional Comment fields. Comments contains additional information about the registry, as deemed appropriate for understanding the current state of the registry. For example: File-Date: 2009-09-10 Comment: Updated on 2009-09-10 to add new codes from ISO 639-3. Comment: Updated on 2009-06-14 to add new codes from ISO 3166. Comment: Updated on 2008-07-12 to in accordance with RFC XXX (4646bis). %% ----- MD7 variant 'nedis' is 'sl', meaning that the tags "sl-nedis" and "sl-IT-nedis" might be appropriate while the tag "is-nedis" is not. => variant 'nedis' is 'sl', meaning that the tags "sl-nedis" and "sl-IT-nedis" are appropriate while the tag "is-nedis" is not. [consistence mood] ----- MD8 replace the content of the source standard itself. The descriptions are not intended to be the localized English names for the subtags. Localization or translation of language tag and subtag descriptions is out of scope of this document. => replace the content of the source standard itself. The descriptions are not intended to be the localized English names for the subtags. Localization or translation of language tag and subtag descriptions is out of scope of this document. Descriptions should contain all and only that information necessary to distinguish one subtag from others that it might be confused with. They are not intended to provide general background information, nor to provide all possible alternate names or designations. [add more guidance on scope of descriptions] ----- MD9 The field 'Comments' conveys additional information about the record and MAY appear more than once per record. The field-body MAY include => The field 'Comments' conveys additional information about the record as needed for clarity: it is not intended to provide general background information. It MAY appear more than once per record. The field-body MAY include [add more guidance on scope of comments] ----- MD10 To ensure consistent backward compatibility, this document contains several provisions to account for potential instability in the standards used to define the subtags that make up language tags. These provisions mean that no language tag created under the rules in this document will become invalid. => To ensure consistent backward compatibility, this document contains several provisions to account for potential instability in the standards used to define the subtags that make up language tags. These provisions mean that no language tag created under the rules in this document will become invalid, nor will that language tag have a narrower scope in the future (it may have a broader scope). [clarify broadening, relating to use elsewhere] ----- MD11 2. Subtags of type 'Region' that have a Preferred-Value mapping in the IANA registry (see Section 3.1) SHOULD be replaced with their mapped value. Note: In rare cases, the mapped value will also have a Preferred-Value. 3. Redundant or grandfathered tags that have a Preferred-Value mapping in the IANA registry (see Section 3.1) MUST be replaced with their mapped value. These items either are deprecated mappings created before the adoption of this document (such as the mapping of "no-nyn" to "nn" or "i-klingon" to "tlh") or are the result of later registrations or additions to this document (for example, "zh-hakka" was deprecated in favor of the ISO 639-3 code 'hak' when this document was adopted). 4. Other subtags that have a Preferred-Value mapping in the IANA registry (see Section 3.1) MUST be replaced with their mapped value. These items consist entirely of clerical corrections to ISO 639-1 in which the deprecated subtags have been maintained for compatibility purposes. => 2. Subtags of type 'Region' that have a Preferred-Value mapping in the IANA registry (see Section 3.1) are recursively replaced with their mapped value. Note: In rare cases, the mapped value will also have a Preferred-Value. 3. Redundant or grandfathered tags that have a Preferred-Value mapping in the IANA registry (see Section 3.1) are recursively replaced with their mapped value. These items either are deprecated mappings created before the adoption of this document (such as the mapping of "no-nyn" to "nn" or "i-klingon" to "tlh") or are the result of later registrations or additions to this document (for example, "zh-hakka" was deprecated in favor of the ISO 639-3 code 'hak' when this document was adopted). 4. Other subtags that have a Preferred-Value mapping in the IANA registry (see Section 3.1) are recursively replaced with their mapped value. These items consist entirely of clerical corrections to ISO 639-1 in which the deprecated subtags have been maintained for compatibility purposes. [We are defining 'canonical order'. MUST and SHOULD are inappropriate in a definition -- and were inconsistently used, since #1 and #5 don't use them. Also, we have to have recursive replacement of tags in order to get an idempotent result!] ----- MD12 The 'Preferred-Value' field in records of type "grandfathered" and "redundant" contains whole language tags that are strongly RECOMMENDED for use in place of the record's value. In many cases, the mappings were created by deprecation of the tags during the period before this document was adopted. For example, the tag "no- nyn" was deprecated in favor of the ISO 639-1-defined language code 'nn'. [ADD] If the value of a Preferred-Value is not canonical (such as when it is a tag or contains a subtag that itself has a Preferred-Value), then a Comment SHOULD be added to the record to that effect. For example: Preferred-Value: zh-hakka Comment: The canonical form of "zh-hakka" is "hak". ----- [MD13] The relationship between the tag and the information it identifies is defined by the context in which the tag appears. Accordingly, this section gives only possible examples of its usage. [add at bottom of list] o Language tags form the basis for most implementations of locale identifiers. For example, see the Unicode Locales project [CLDR]. -- Mark _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 13 11:10:28 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE9F13A6FBD; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 11:10:28 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.722 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.722 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.285, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id v-zW22k8jM1L; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 11:10:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE5303A6FAC; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 11:10:27 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6349E3A6FAC for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 11:10:26 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id m5sVXghRv2zx for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 11:10:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from ch-smtp02.sth.basefarm.net (ch-smtp02.sth.basefarm.net [80.76.149.213]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86DA03A6942 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 11:10:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from c83-248-85-137.bredband.comhem.se ([83.248.85.137]:4322 helo=wgbgkka02x) by ch-smtp02.sth.basefarm.net with esmtp (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1JPN1G-0005VX-8v for ltru@ietf.org; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 20:11:47 +0100 From: "Kent Karlsson" To: "'LTRU Working Group'" References: <004e01c86e58$45f87f70$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 20:11:45 +0100 Message-ID: <00bc01c86e74$4642e530$8955f853@streamserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 In-Reply-To: <004e01c86e58$45f87f70$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> Thread-Index: AchuWFV1Ud9ys5bQTX+U+UNEJ7h5pQAGlXKQ X-Originating-IP: 83.248.85.137 X-Scan-Result: No virus found in message 1JPN1G-0005VX-8v. X-Scan-Signature: ch-smtp02.sth.basefarm.net 1JPN1G-0005VX-8v fd6244c663d26c620dabe52918c8c2df Subject: Re: [Ltru] preferred value of zh-hakka in Draft-4645bis X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Doug Ewell wrote: > >> 3. Others: > >> > >> Preferred-Value: zh-hakka > > I'm not sure what is being proposed here. If the proposal is > to change > the Preferred-Value of "i-hak" from "zh-hakka" to "hak" (thus > avoiding > the chain of Preferred-Values), then we cannot do this. > Section 3.1 of > RFC 4646 and Section 3.1.6 of draft-4646bis both say, "The field > 'Preferred-Value' MUST NOT be modified once created in the registry." It seem illogical to me to allow a "preferred-value" to be a deprecated value. Especially if the newly deprecated value has a preferred value. So if a preferred value becomes deprecated, all Preferred-value references to it should be changed to the new preferred value of the ex-target, if any. If there is no new (non-deprecated) preferred value, maybe the reference could be kept. (If you want me to draft changes, I can do so, but I will wait a little while for others to comment on this.) /kent k _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 13 12:03:06 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2BA73A6FC9; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:03:05 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.164 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.164 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.888, BAYES_05=-1.11, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gUggSfCF48GG; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:03:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FBE328C940; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:02:34 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8AED28C922 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:02:33 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sziu1crRTG8g for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:02:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.61]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8ADC728C8E0 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:01:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from [68.164.82.195] (helo=oemcomputer) by elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1JPNoy-00045b-2O for ltru@ietf.org; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 15:03:08 -0500 Message-ID: <003b01c86e7b$8a1f50c0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> From: "Randy Presuhn" To: "LTRU Working Group" References: <006401c86da3$550be980$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:03:44 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-ELNK-Trace: 4488c18417c9426da92b9037bc8bcf44d4c20f6b8d69d8885d2a9c731cc891176d9d0adc1a8e1bd07482486a009e372f350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 68.164.82.195 Subject: Re: [Ltru] charter web page problem X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Hi - Our WG charter has been fixed. Randy _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 13 12:07:00 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 919DF3A6FA8; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:07:00 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.343 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.343 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.094, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8I2CS++w-PGK; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:06:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D586F3A68DF; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:06:59 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EF8C3A685D for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:06:58 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jMK5JyAfT1Af for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:06:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.61]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F9043A682B for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:06:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from [68.164.82.195] (helo=oemcomputer) by elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1JPNu0-0001d3-Cj for ltru@ietf.org; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 15:08:20 -0500 Message-ID: <005801c86e7c$44a197a0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> From: "Randy Presuhn" To: "'LTRU Working Group'" References: <47B286B0.1040806@yahoo-inc.com> Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:08:57 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-ELNK-Trace: 4488c18417c9426da92b9037bc8bcf44d4c20f6b8d69d8885d2a9c731cc89117424a495e406cb18e3f4d5380eae40985350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 68.164.82.195 Subject: Re: [Ltru] figure 3 title X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Hi - I believe it's safe to declare this issue purely editorial and resolved. Randy as co-chair > From: "Addison Phillips" > To: "'LTRU Working Group'" > Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 9:57 PM > Subject: [Ltru] figure 3 title > > In the editor's copy of draft-12, Figure 3 was given the title: > > Figure 3: RFC 3066 Language Tag Syntax > > It previously had no title. Some of the conversion tools complain about > that. > > Addison > > -- > Addison Phillips > Globalization Architect -- Yahoo! Inc. > Chair -- W3C Internationalization Core WG > > Internationalization is an architecture. > It is not a feature. > _______________________________________________ > Ltru mailing list > Ltru@ietf.org > http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 13 12:12:35 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED7783A6FA0; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:12:35 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.337 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.337 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.522, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id F9apgiEGnw+l; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:12:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34F893A6831; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:12:35 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E27F3A682D for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:12:34 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wyOQwyDKjfXt for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:12:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from ag-out-0708.google.com (ag-out-0708.google.com [72.14.246.244]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91E553A67A7 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:12:29 -0800 (PST) Received: by ag-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id 33so4600307agc.1 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:13:51 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.142.211.10 with SMTP id j10mr305516wfg.202.1202933629640; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:13:49 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.143.174.8 with HTTP; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:13:49 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <30b660a20802131213x27283c91t98bb9ebf81dc55d5@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:13:49 -0800 From: "Mark Davis" To: "Addison Phillips" In-Reply-To: <47B25FEA.6050203@yahoo-inc.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline References: <001801c8616d$5b5a4030$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> <30b660a20802121117t4d7a7b32gabd3c98050a5b65f@mail.gmail.com> <00e301c86dcd$66d1ae00$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> <47B25FEA.6050203@yahoo-inc.com> X-Google-Sender-Auth: fa00348bf9ba9a10 Cc: LTRU Working Group Subject: Re: [Ltru] source standards' dates in comment registry Draft-4645bis X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org I meant #1. I suggested concrete text for this in "Proposed edits (davis)" sent Feb 13, 2008 11:01 AM, under MD6 and MD12. (We can also further wordsmith that suggestion, if people agree on the direction.) Mark On Feb 12, 2008 7:11 PM, Addison Phillips wrote: > Mark, > > Do you mean: > > 1. Allow a Comment field in the File-Date record > > or.. > > 2. Allow file level comments as in draft-record-jar [1] > > Addison > > [1] > http://www.inter-locale.com/ID/draft-phillips-record-jar-01.html#comments > > > Randy Presuhn wrote: > > Hi - > > > > New subject line for sanity... > > > >> From: "Mark Davis" > >> To: "Doug Ewell" > >> Cc: "LTRU Working Group" > >> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 11:17 AM > >> Subject: Re: [Ltru] Draft-4645bis, as you like it > > ... > >> 6. Issue: if we allow a Comment at the top level of the file, we could put > >> in the latest version numbers/dates of different standards that we draw > >> from... > > ... > > > > RAndy > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ltru mailing list > > Ltru@ietf.org > > http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru > > > -- > Addison Phillips > Globalization Architect -- Yahoo! Inc. > Chair -- W3C Internationalization Core WG > > Internationalization is an architecture. > It is not a feature. > > _______________________________________________ > Ltru mailing list > Ltru@ietf.org > http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru > -- Mark _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 13 12:17:40 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF4043A6FCA; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:17:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.328 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.328 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.110, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 58kpMHWp9Dr4; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:17:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A5E53A6811; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:17:40 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E82E23A67A7 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:17:38 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XgxlmwO6ZtPa for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:17:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from relay-2.mailobj.net (relay-2.mailobj.net [195.234.90.137]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6B2A3A6811 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:17:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from netcourrier.com (webmail-4.in.mailobj.net [192.168.90.141]) by relay-2.mailobj.net (Postfix) with SMTP id A77EC1510BF for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 21:18:58 +0100 (CET) Received: from [89.2.186.89] by webmail-4.netcourrier.com via html interface From: Nicolas Krebs To: ltru@ietf.org Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 21:18:58 +0100 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Medianet/v2.0 Message-Id: Subject: Re: [Ltru] =?iso-8859-1?q?WGLC=3A_remove_new_region_subtags_from_4646?= =?iso-8859-1?q?bis/4645bis=09=28long=29?= X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org >Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 17:43:08 -0500 >To: Doug Ewell >From: John Cowan >CC: LTRU Working Group >Doug Ewell scripsit: > >> I propose that the new region subtags based on ISO 3166-1 "exceptionally >> reserved" code elements, and the wording that authorizes them, be >> removed from both drafts. > >Just as a reminder, the seven code elements at issue are: > >AC (Ascension Island) >CP (Clipperton Island) >DG (Diego Garcia) >EA (Ceuta and Melilla) >EU (European Union) >IC (Canary Islands) >TA (Tristan da Cunha) > >Loosely speaking, AC, DG, and TA are attached to the U.K., CP to France, >EA and IC to Spain, and EU is sui generis. There is also FX, which is >already in the registry, and UK, which is excluded by rule. What is (are) the difference(s) between DG (Diego Garcia) and IO (British Indian Ocean Territory , http://www.langtag.net/registries/registry-html/region/IO.html ) ? _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 13 12:23:18 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81C6F3A6FCC; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:23:18 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.323 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.323 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.114, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zFrasvNUimk1; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:23:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B14143A6859; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:23:17 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FDBD3A67F8 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:23:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bIrwc8boPUBm for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:23:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from elasmtp-scoter.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-scoter.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.67]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92B283A6859 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:23:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from [66.167.203.224] (helo=oemcomputer) by elasmtp-scoter.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1JPO9j-0002Lx-Q1 for ltru@ietf.org; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 15:24:36 -0500 Message-ID: <009901c86e7e$8a1f4960$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> From: "Randy Presuhn" To: "LTRU Working Group" References: <47B28753.5090406@yahoo-inc.com> <30b660a20802130859n7cb1c324v31dac9b1473e7aa3@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:25:13 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-ELNK-Trace: 4488c18417c9426da92b9037bc8bcf44d4c20f6b8d69d8885d2a9c731cc891172d7be8653b81b97b075989589612516d350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 66.167.203.224 Subject: Re: [Ltru] folding boundaries X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Hi - > From: "Mark Davis" > To: "Addison Phillips" > Cc: "LTRU Working Group" > Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 8:59 AM > Subject: Re: [Ltru] folding boundaries > > The first line contradicts the rest. And I don't think that we need to > provide a precise specification of folding. My suggestion: > > Folding is done according to customary conventions for line-wrapping. This > is typically on whitespace boundaries, but may break between other > characters where a language does not use whitespace between words. For more > information, see [UAX14]. ... As a technical contributor, I would prefer something similar to this suggested text. However, I do think the current text ("Folding is always done on Unicode default grapheme boundaries (that is, never in the middle of a multibyte UTF-8 sequence nor in the middle of a combining character sequence).") makes an important point. I do not think that we need to over-engineer this point, however, since *we* are adding the bulk of these records, and the folks on ietf-languages@iana.org can probably be trusted to "do the right thing." Randy _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 13 12:25:13 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25D6F3A6FD3; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:25:13 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.526 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.526 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.089, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dv5s1xbjMI3H; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:25:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 496483A6FD7; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:25:10 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DDAC3A6904 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:25:08 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Afa+S2F2XgRE for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:25:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.microsoft.com (smtp.microsoft.com [131.107.115.214]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57C6E3A6FCC for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:24:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from tk5-exhub-c104.redmond.corp.microsoft.com (157.54.70.185) by TK5-EXGWY-E803.partners.extranet.microsoft.com (10.251.56.169) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.1.240.5; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:25:54 -0800 Received: from NA-EXMSG-C117.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.62.46]) by tk5-exhub-c104.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.70.185]) with mapi; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:25:54 -0800 From: Peter Constable To: Addison Phillips Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:25:48 -0800 Thread-Topic: [Ltru] The case against adding 'UK' Thread-Index: AchuA9xKwX1d5068RzOC+xY2kgZWKQAemibw Message-ID: References: <005501c86d46$dbd13b80$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81><01db01c86d5a$da0c1bd0$0554f853@streamserve.com><00ad01c86d86$b3268330$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81><001701c86d9f$ffb15ae0$8955f853@streamserve.com><00e401c86da7$6156bea0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer><005701c86dc4$38601e20$8955f853@streamserve.com> <003501c86dc9$c51e23c0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> <005e01c86dd2$5db1eb00$8955f853@streamserve.com> <47B28430.5010802@yahoo-inc.com> In-Reply-To: <47B28430.5010802@yahoo-inc.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: 'LTRU Working Group' , Kent Karlsson Subject: Re: [Ltru] The case against adding 'UK' X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org > From: Addison Phillips [mailto:addison@yahoo-inc.com] > Ur... are you sure? Adding 'UK' as a deprecated code has the effect of > making tags such as "en-UK" valid (they are not now valid). > > I oppose making these changes because of the confusion that allowing > this special case would create. The invalidity of 'UK' is both > deliberate and good. > > Alternatively, if we really must add it, a Comment really should be > included specifying exactly why it was included. I guess it comes down to two issues: - what the best way is to discourage usage, and - what is needed to deal with any existing usage Peter _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 13 12:28:36 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AEB63A6D7C; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:28:36 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.41 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.41 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.027, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZWbZRecrX+NI; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:28:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B43213A6858; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:28:35 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00DB53A683C for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:28:34 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id itXRAnPOr0g9 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:28:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.61]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B0FF3A6858 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:28:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from [66.167.203.224] (helo=oemcomputer) by elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1JPOEu-0000p3-56 for ltru@ietf.org; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 15:29:56 -0500 Message-ID: <00b401c86e7f$48fcfb20$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> From: "Randy Presuhn" To: "LTRU Working Group" References: <005b01c86e59$32c9a680$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:30:33 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-ELNK-Trace: 4488c18417c9426da92b9037bc8bcf44d4c20f6b8d69d8885d2a9c731cc89117cdf85e4aea98fb5d2eeb768aceeec059350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 66.167.203.224 Subject: Re: [Ltru] preferred value zh-min X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Hi - > From: "Doug Ewell" > To: "LTRU Working Group" > Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 7:57 AM > Subject: Re: [Ltru] preferred value zh-min > > Randy Presuhn wrote: > > >> Type: grandfathered > >> Tag: zh-min > >> Description: Min, Fuzhou, Hokkien, Amoy, or Taiwanese > >> Added: 1999-12-18 > >> Deprecated: 2029-09-09 > >> %% > >> > >> This should have the Preferred-Value: min > > ... > > > > As I read the thread the rough consensus is to *not* make > > the proposed change. > > Not only that, there is a paragraph in Section 2.5 of draft-4645bis that > specifically describes this case and why it is the way it is. Please > close this. ... Uh, what more than a co-chair making a determination of rough consensus do you want? It sounds like I really will have to drag out the RT bug tracker. Randy _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 13 12:32:58 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D4913A6FA8; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:32:58 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.14 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.14 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.322, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=0.619, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VLJrNTrL7OLR; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:32:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9AED13A6F00; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:32:57 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFE393A685C for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:32:55 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xcb7V5-7StU5 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:32:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.69]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07F6B3A67D0 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:32:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from [66.167.203.224] (helo=oemcomputer) by elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1JPOJ7-000554-H1 for ltru@ietf.org; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 15:34:17 -0500 Message-ID: <00bf01c86e7f$e4f4a780$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> From: "Randy Presuhn" To: "LTRU Working Group" References: <001801c8616d$5b5a4030$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> <30b660a20802121117t4d7a7b32gabd3c98050a5b65f@mail.gmail.com> <00e301c86dcd$66d1ae00$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> <47B25FEA.6050203@yahoo-inc.com> <30b660a20802131213x27283c91t98bb9ebf81dc55d5@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:34:55 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-ELNK-Trace: 4488c18417c9426da92b9037bc8bcf44d4c20f6b8d69d8885d2a9c731cc891174f2e58878263b2e382b524823798710d350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 66.167.203.224 Subject: Re: [Ltru] source standards' dates in comment registry Draft-4645bis X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Hi - > From: "Mark Davis" > To: "Addison Phillips" > Cc: "Randy Presuhn" ; "LTRU Working Group" > Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 12:13 PM > Subject: Re: [Ltru] source standards' dates in comment registry Draft-4645bis > > I meant #1. I suggested concrete text for this in "Proposed edits > (davis)" sent Feb 13, 2008 11:01 AM, under MD6 and MD12. (We can also > further wordsmith that suggestion, if people agree on the direction.) ... As a technical contributor... I'd prefer to *not* make this kind of a change. It is enough for the 4645bis i-d to identify the versions used. Adding this information to the registry itself opens yet another opportunity for maintenance errors, and in no way aids the use or interpretation of language tags. Randy _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 13 12:34:41 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 875573A6FDB; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:34:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.441 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.441 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.004, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8M1FvFAqSJAx; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:34:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C74F43A6FA8; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:34:40 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B35FF3A685C for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:34:39 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id akhRJGFJQMqi for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:34:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.70]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 085B83A67CF for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:34:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from [66.167.203.224] (helo=oemcomputer) by elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1JPOKl-0001qm-9z for ltru@ietf.org; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 15:35:59 -0500 Message-ID: <00e301c86e80$219d8620$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> From: "Randy Presuhn" To: "LTRU Working Group" References: <005501c86e58$b70896f0$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81><30b660a20802130850i71004552yc5de3582385b1c9a@mail.gmail.com><20080213165500.GC7215@mercury.ccil.org> <30b660a20802130900r21dd61bap83c17a26fe4eda55@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:36:37 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-ELNK-Trace: 4488c18417c9426da92b9037bc8bcf44d4c20f6b8d69d8885d2a9c731cc891171f59f6aee410e91a776361f203476388350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 66.167.203.224 Subject: Re: [Ltru] replacement for grandfathered items in Draft-4645bis X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Hi - As co-chair, based on the discussion on this thread, I'm declaring a rough consensus to *not* make this proposed change. Randy _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 13 12:35:44 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FAF53A6FEC; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:35:44 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.584 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.584 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.147, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BlFOf7YeY7iH; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:35:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C1C73A683B; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:35:43 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACEE53A6FDB for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:35:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ACU+-XcNdJxq for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:35:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.microsoft.com (maila.microsoft.com [131.107.115.212]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1EBD3A683B for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:35:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from tk1-exhub-c101.redmond.corp.microsoft.com (157.56.116.111) by TK5-EXGWY-E801.partners.extranet.microsoft.com (10.251.56.50) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.1.240.5; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:37:04 -0800 Received: from NA-EXMSG-C117.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.62.46]) by tk1-exhub-c101.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.56.116.111]) with mapi; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:37:04 -0800 From: Peter Constable To: Doug Ewell , LTRU Working Group Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:36:58 -0800 Thread-Topic: [Ltru] The case against adding 'UK' Thread-Index: AchuWqnRhZIlWvSBSKe45y2znHMu/QAJHvTA Message-ID: References: <006101c86e5a$82b4d420$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> In-Reply-To: <006101c86e5a$82b4d420$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [Ltru] The case against adding 'UK' X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org > From: ltru-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ltru-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > Doug Ewell > If we add 'UK' to the Registry, what is the remaining justification for > keeping Section 3.4, item 14 (D) of draft-4646bis, which states that > duplicate ISO 3166-1 code elements are not added? That section deals with maintenance of the registry. There's no conflict. > I'm not convinced by Kent's argument that "One may read RFC 1766 as > that > exceptionally reserved region subtags could be used." RFC 1766 > referred > specifically to "ISO 3166 alpha-2 country codes." The use of 'UK' in > language tags was (and is) not out of a belief that exceptionally > reserved code elements are allowed, but out of a common misconception > over the correct code element for the United Kingdom. You see this > misconception in non-language-tagging contexts as well. So, there's the issue of communicating that "UK" should not be used. That can be done either in the text of the BCP (current draft) or in the registry (Kent's proposal). We can consider which is more likely to be effective. But, if there is existing usage of "UK" in language tags, then what's the best way for implementations to handle that? If a user requests "en-UK", is it better to reject/ignore the request because the tag is invalid, or to serve up "en-GB" content? If use of "UK" is rare, then treating tags that include it as invalid may be tolerable in the big scheme of things. I don't know how widely it's used. Peter _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 13 12:37:13 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E96F33A683B; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:37:13 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.242 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.242 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.426, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id j3BBwwZFUbvk; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:37:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A4423A685C; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:37:13 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ECBD03A683B for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:37:12 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FVoh8Fz+oEnM for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:37:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from ag-out-0708.google.com (ag-out-0708.google.com [72.14.246.243]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4D023A67B1 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:37:11 -0800 (PST) Received: by ag-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id 33so4654552agc.1 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:38:33 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.142.48.14 with SMTP id v14mr347239wfv.133.1202935111665; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:38:31 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.143.174.8 with HTTP; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:38:31 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <30b660a20802131238t22b168f1p9aa0c9fd39d3fd21@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:38:31 -0800 From: "Mark Davis" To: "Randy Presuhn" In-Reply-To: <009901c86e7e$8a1f4960$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline References: <47B28753.5090406@yahoo-inc.com> <30b660a20802130859n7cb1c324v31dac9b1473e7aa3@mail.gmail.com> <009901c86e7e$8a1f4960$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 0539d4a743fc9dad Cc: LTRU Working Group Subject: Re: [Ltru] folding boundaries X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org How about: Folding is done according to customary conventions for line-wrapping. This is typically on whitespace boundaries, but may break between other characters where a language does not use whitespace between words. In any event, there MUST never be breaks inside a multibyte UTF-8 sequence nor in the middle of a combining character sequence. For more information, see [UAX14]. Mark On Feb 13, 2008 12:25 PM, Randy Presuhn wrote: > Hi - > > > From: "Mark Davis" > > To: "Addison Phillips" > > Cc: "LTRU Working Group" > > Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 8:59 AM > > Subject: Re: [Ltru] folding boundaries > > > > The first line contradicts the rest. And I don't think that we need to > > provide a precise specification of folding. My suggestion: > > > > Folding is done according to customary conventions for line-wrapping. This > > is typically on whitespace boundaries, but may break between other > > characters where a language does not use whitespace between words. For more > > information, see [UAX14]. > ... > > As a technical contributor, I would prefer something similar to this > suggested text. However, I do think the current text ("Folding is > always done on Unicode default grapheme boundaries (that is, never > in the middle of a multibyte UTF-8 sequence nor in the middle of a > combining character sequence).") makes an important point. I do not > think that we need to over-engineer this point, however, since *we* > are adding the bulk of these records, and the folks on ietf-languages@iana.org > can probably be trusted to "do the right thing." > > Randy > > > _______________________________________________ > Ltru mailing list > Ltru@ietf.org > http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru > -- Mark _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 13 12:40:30 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8880928C8C9; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:40:30 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.473 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.473 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.036, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hM05fwKrsw4F; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:40:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B698028C386; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:40:29 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D771328C24B for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:40:28 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KqacYOTDlh6y for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:40:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.68]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D58328C427 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:40:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from [66.167.203.224] (helo=oemcomputer) by elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1JPOQQ-0003bH-E5 for ltru@ietf.org; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 15:41:50 -0500 Message-ID: <010301c86e80$f2e19b40$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> From: "Randy Presuhn" To: "LTRU Working Group" References: <47B28753.5090406@yahoo-inc.com> <30b660a20802130859n7cb1c324v31dac9b1473e7aa3@mail.gmail.com> <009901c86e7e$8a1f4960$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> <30b660a20802131238t22b168f1p9aa0c9fd39d3fd21@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:42:28 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-ELNK-Trace: 4488c18417c9426da92b9037bc8bcf44d4c20f6b8d69d8885d2a9c731cc89117c39dddc3702da2dce194a4d89ad04b5b350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 66.167.203.224 Subject: Re: [Ltru] folding boundaries X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Hi - > From: "Mark Davis" > To: "Randy Presuhn" > Cc: "LTRU Working Group" > Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 12:38 PM > Subject: Re: [Ltru] folding boundaries > > How about: > > Folding is done according to customary conventions for line-wrapping. > This is typically on whitespace boundaries, but may break between > other characters where a language does not use whitespace between > words. In any event, there MUST never be breaks inside a multibyte > UTF-8 sequence nor in the middle of a combining character sequence. > For more information, see [UAX14]. Seems very clear to me as a technical contributor. Randy _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 13 12:46:05 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E36E3A6856; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:46:05 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.566 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.566 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.129, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QBbBC0dZ0h7c; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:46:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0FAE3A6859; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:45:58 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39EFA3A6858 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:45:57 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8pF9fyVC2Dhu for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:45:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.microsoft.com (mailb.microsoft.com [131.107.115.215]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D69943A6892 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:44:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from tk5-exhub-c103.redmond.corp.microsoft.com (157.54.70.186) by TK5-EXGWY-E802.partners.extranet.microsoft.com (10.251.56.168) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.1.240.5; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:45:28 -0800 Received: from NA-EXMSG-C117.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.62.46]) by tk5-exhub-c103.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.70.186]) with mapi; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:45:28 -0800 From: Peter Constable To: "ltru@ietf.org" Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:45:21 -0800 Thread-Topic: [Ltru] WGLC: remove new region subtags from 4646bis/4645bis (long) Thread-Index: AchufbFMZwVDoWl9RQel0+H9O99j2QAA2McQ Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [Ltru] WGLC: remove new region subtags from 4646bis/4645bis (long) X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org > From: ltru-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ltru-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > Nicolas Krebs > What is (are) the difference(s) between > DG (Diego Garcia) and IO (British Indian Ocean Territory , IMO, it's not the role of LTRU to make judgments as to what differences in content would correlate with these region differences. Thus, I think the question is off topic. Peter _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 13 12:51:02 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F2D33A6FD3; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:51:02 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.498 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.498 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.061, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id S+O262HGuGeT; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:51:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 600BD28C89D; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:50:57 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48FBE28C24B for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:50:56 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KNGSkweUDwxD for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:50:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.70]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5A3328CA24 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:49:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from [66.167.203.224] (helo=oemcomputer) by elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1JPOYm-00016j-C6 for ltru@ietf.org; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 15:50:28 -0500 Message-ID: <013301c86e82$2798fa80$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> From: "Randy Presuhn" To: "LTRU Working Group" References: <47B2880D.40200@yahoo-inc.com> Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:51:05 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-ELNK-Trace: 4488c18417c9426da92b9037bc8bcf44d4c20f6b8d69d8885d2a9c731cc891172aafec5e8e9eca270c7a04f352548729350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 66.167.203.224 Subject: Re: [Ltru] addition of text on macrolanguages and supporting table X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Hi - As a technical contributor... > From: "Addison Phillips" > To: "'LTRU Working Group'" > Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 10:02 PM > Subject: [Ltru] addition of text on macrolanguages and supporting table > > In Section 4.2 of the editor's copy of draft-12, we had previously > inserted text suggested by John Cowan as follows: > > --- > The pairs of macro and encompassed languages affected by this issue > when this document was published were: > > Arabic 'ar' Standard Arabic 'arb' > Konkani (macrolanguage) 'kok' Konkani (individual language) 'knn' > Malay (macrolanguage) 'ms' Malay (individual language) 'mly' > Swahili (macrolanguage) 'sw' Swahili (individual language) 'swh' > Uzbek 'uz' Northern Uzbek 'uzn' > Chinese 'zh' Mandarin Chinese 'cmn' > > Figure 8 > > -- > > I propose we do insert this text (although note that the table must be > edited as several lines are too long). ... This seems reasonable to me. Randy _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 13 12:56:40 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CA093A6FCB; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:56:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.371 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.371 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.814, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, HTML_MESSAGE=1, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wj9rmYwI6-lS; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:56:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E3A13A6FAC; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:56:39 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60F593A6D6E for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:56:38 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ofFDQw8obmpA for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:56:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from ag-out-0708.google.com (ag-out-0708.google.com [72.14.246.244]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23BFC3A6FBF for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:56:36 -0800 (PST) Received: by ag-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id 33so4697515agc.1 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:57:59 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.142.114.15 with SMTP id m15mr337136wfc.235.1202936278561; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:57:58 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.143.174.8 with HTTP; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:57:58 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <30b660a20802131257u1a1e4961od31ae93883bb139f@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:57:58 -0800 From: "Mark Davis" To: "Randy Presuhn" In-Reply-To: <00bf01c86e7f$e4f4a780$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <001801c8616d$5b5a4030$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> <30b660a20802121117t4d7a7b32gabd3c98050a5b65f@mail.gmail.com> <00e301c86dcd$66d1ae00$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> <47B25FEA.6050203@yahoo-inc.com> <30b660a20802131213x27283c91t98bb9ebf81dc55d5@mail.gmail.com> <00bf01c86e7f$e4f4a780$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> X-Google-Sender-Auth: da4a281fc388c17d Cc: LTRU Working Group Subject: Re: [Ltru] source standards' dates in comment registry Draft-4645bis X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1445520510==" Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org --===============1445520510== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_28430_30332312.1202936278540" ------=_Part_28430_30332312.1202936278540 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline There are really 2 separate things here. MD6a. Should we add the ability to have Comments in the File-Date record? We have had various cases come up where we wanted to do that, but were unable. We could use those examples in the comments instead of the ones I had. MD6b. Should we document changes in the registry via those comments? Those were the examples that I gave -- but I'm not wedded to that -- they were just the first examples I came up with. On the other hand, I really like having the ability to have, at least at a gross level, some statement of what was done to the file for at least the change between this version and the last (if not the 'running total'). Mark On Feb 13, 2008 12:34 PM, Randy Presuhn wrote: > Hi - > > > From: "Mark Davis" > > To: "Addison Phillips" > > Cc: "Randy Presuhn" ; "LTRU Working Group" > > > Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 12:13 PM > > Subject: Re: [Ltru] source standards' dates in comment registry > Draft-4645bis > > > > > I meant #1. I suggested concrete text for this in "Proposed edits > > (davis)" sent Feb 13, 2008 11:01 AM, under MD6 and MD12. (We can also > > further wordsmith that suggestion, if people agree on the direction.) > ... > > As a technical contributor... > > I'd prefer to *not* make this kind of a change. > It is enough for the 4645bis i-d to identify the versions used. > Adding this information to the registry itself opens yet another > opportunity for maintenance errors, and in no way aids the use or > interpretation of language tags. > > Randy > > _______________________________________________ > Ltru mailing list > Ltru@ietf.org > http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru > -- Mark ------=_Part_28430_30332312.1202936278540 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline There are really 2 separate things here.

MD6a. Should we add the ability to have Comments in the File-Date record?

We have had various cases come up where we wanted to do that, but were unable. We could use those examples in the comments instead of the ones I had.

MD6b. Should we document changes in the registry via those comments?

Those were the examples that I gave -- but I'm not wedded to that -- they were just the first examples I came up with. On the other hand, I really like having the ability to have, at least at a gross level, some statement of what was done to the file for at least the change between this version and the last (if not the 'running total').

Mark

On Feb 13, 2008 12:34 PM, Randy Presuhn <randy_presuhn@mindspring.com> wrote:
Hi -

> From: "Mark Davis" <mark.davis@icu-project.org>
> To: "Addison Phillips" <addison@yahoo-inc.com>
> Cc: "Randy Presuhn" <randy_presuhn@mindspring.com>; "LTRU Working Group" <ltru@ietf.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 12:13 PM
> Subject: Re: [Ltru] source standards' dates in comment registry Draft-4645bis
>

> I meant #1. I suggested concrete text for this in "Proposed edits
> (davis)" sent Feb 13, 2008 11:01 AM, under MD6 and MD12. (We can also
> further wordsmith that suggestion, if people agree on the direction.)
...

As a technical contributor...

I'd prefer to *not* make this kind of a change.
It is enough for the 4645bis i-d to identify the versions used.
Adding this information to the registry itself opens yet another
opportunity for maintenance errors, and in no way aids the use or
interpretation of language tags.

Randy

_______________________________________________
Ltru mailing list
Ltru@ietf.org
http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru



--
Mark ------=_Part_28430_30332312.1202936278540-- --===============1445520510== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru --===============1445520510==-- From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 13 12:58:14 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7A573A6FC4; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:58:14 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.515 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.515 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.078, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4vREexAEdF8w; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:58:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E90F83A6FCB; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:58:12 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01D043A6FBF for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:58:12 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xuMIaeZ-JUXa for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:58:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.61]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 645893A67CF for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:58:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from [66.167.203.224] (helo=oemcomputer) by elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1JPOhT-00008p-VL for ltru@ietf.org; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 15:59:28 -0500 Message-ID: <013e01c86e83$6937e0e0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> From: "Randy Presuhn" To: References: Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:00:05 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-ELNK-Trace: 4488c18417c9426da92b9037bc8bcf44d4c20f6b8d69d8885d2a9c731cc891170aa1e9a95db7723bfb3baa700266b000350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 66.167.203.224 Subject: Re: [Ltru] WGLC: remove new region subtags from4646bis/4645bis (long) X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Hi - > From: "Peter Constable" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 12:45 PM > Subject: Re: [Ltru] WGLC: remove new region subtags from4646bis/4645bis (long) > > > From: ltru-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ltru-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > > Nicolas Krebs > > > > What is (are) the difference(s) between > > DG (Diego Garcia) and IO (British Indian Ocean Territory , > > IMO, it's not the role of LTRU to make judgments as to what differences > in content would correlate with these region differences. Thus, I think > the question is off topic. ... As co-chair... In the context of discussions like the one about what to do about 'UK', I think the question is legitimate and reasonable. Important is that the question is *not* about whether there would be any differences in content there might be, but rather simply how the region 'DG' refers to can be distinguished from the region 'IO' refers to. Are they the same bit of land and ocean or not? If they are the same bit of land and ocean, then it seems we have a UK/GB situation. If they aren't, then there's nothing to worry about *here*. Randy _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 13 13:05:12 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0B3B28C8AF; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:05:12 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.526 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.526 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.089, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1Z0vkZ8qSnLa; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:05:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F0CD28C8BB; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:05:10 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8A0B3A681F for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:05:08 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IeuEa9Yszvj4 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:05:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.microsoft.com (smtp.microsoft.com [131.107.115.215]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4511F3A6FC1 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:05:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from tk1-exhub-c104.redmond.corp.microsoft.com (157.56.116.117) by TK5-EXGWY-E802.partners.extranet.microsoft.com (10.251.56.168) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.1.240.5; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:06:24 -0800 Received: from NA-EXMSG-C117.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.62.46]) by tk1-exhub-c104.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.56.116.117]) with mapi; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:06:23 -0800 From: Peter Constable To: "ltru@ietf.org" Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:06:17 -0800 Thread-Topic: Editorial: wording in section 4.2 Thread-Index: AchuhEYlp/xEejHcTFKYeSIQdZ1LCg== Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: [Ltru] Editorial: wording in section 4.2 X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org The second paragraph of section 4.2 begins as follows: "Validity of a tag is not everything." I don't like the style of that wording. Here's a suggested change: "Validity of a tag is not the only factor determining its usefulness." Paragraph 3 begins as follows: "The relationship between the tag and the information it identifies is defined by the context in which the tag appears." This could be read as saying that the meaning of a tag can vary according to usage context. That certainly is not the case. I think the following better reflects what I think was intended: "The meaning of a given tag is not dependent on the context in which it appears. The relationship between the meaning of a tag and information objects to which the tag is applied, however, can vary." Thanks, Peter. _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 13 13:05:52 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76ED128C6D0; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:05:52 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.78 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.78 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.343, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id V8CI-qjP8IOh; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:05:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A772D3A6FCD; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:05:51 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 888093A683C for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:05:50 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vTCd6CotuQ7r for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:05:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from rsmtp2.corp.yahoo.com (rsmtp2.corp.yahoo.com [207.126.228.150]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A32E28C15C for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:05:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from [172.21.37.80] (duringperson-lx.corp.yahoo.com [172.21.37.80]) by rsmtp2.corp.yahoo.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/y.rout) with ESMTP id m1DL73GY037800; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:07:03 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <47B35BF7.3060904@yahoo-inc.com> Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:07:03 -0800 From: Addison Phillips User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Randy Presuhn References: <47B28753.5090406@yahoo-inc.com> <30b660a20802130859n7cb1c324v31dac9b1473e7aa3@mail.gmail.com> <009901c86e7e$8a1f4960$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> <30b660a20802131238t22b168f1p9aa0c9fd39d3fd21@mail.gmail.com> <010301c86e80$f2e19b40$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> In-Reply-To: <010301c86e80$f2e19b40$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> Cc: LTRU Working Group Subject: Re: [Ltru] folding boundaries X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Randy Presuhn wrote: > Hi - > >> From: "Mark Davis" >> To: "Randy Presuhn" >> Cc: "LTRU Working Group" >> Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 12:38 PM >> Subject: Re: [Ltru] folding boundaries >> >> How about: >> >> Folding is done according to customary conventions for line-wrapping. >> This is typically on whitespace boundaries, but may break between >> other characters where a language does not use whitespace between >> words. In any event, there MUST never be breaks inside a multibyte >> UTF-8 sequence nor in the middle of a combining character sequence. >> For more information, see [UAX14]. > > Seems very clear to me as a technical contributor. +1 Addison -- Addison Phillips Globalization Architect -- Yahoo! Inc. Chair -- W3C Internationalization Core WG Internationalization is an architecture. It is not a feature. _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 13 13:06:06 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8ED228C848; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:06:06 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.531 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.531 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.094, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lHX+I0gE7R7n; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:06:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E457E3A6FE0; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:06:05 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 709B828C15C for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:06:04 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MZ83FJ3hWapk for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:06:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.63]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 227743A6FC4 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:06:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from [66.167.203.224] (helo=oemcomputer) by elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1JPOpA-0006Pd-0I for ltru@ietf.org; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 16:07:24 -0500 Message-ID: <014701c86e84$83848e20$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> From: "Randy Presuhn" To: "LTRU Working Group" References: <30b660a20802131101h3f58fa4bh6730cc706ad2d9d9@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:07:59 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-ELNK-Trace: 4488c18417c9426da92b9037bc8bcf44d4c20f6b8d69d8885d2a9c731cc89117df0ece920e07cd75bcce7f2156082594350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 66.167.203.224 Subject: [Ltru] Proposed edits (davis) MD4 X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Hi - > From: "Mark Davis" > To: "LTRU Working Group" > Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 11:01 AM > Subject: [Ltru] Proposed edits (davis) ... > MD4 > For example: Users who wished to utilize codes from the Ethnologue > publication of SIL International for language identification might > agree to exchange tags such as "az-Arab-x-AZE-derbend". This example > contains two private use subtags. The first is 'AZE' and the second > is 'derbend'. > => > For example: The Unicode Consortium defines a set of private use > extensions in LDML (Locale Data Markup Language), such as > en-US-x-ldml-POSIX-k-calendar-islamic-k-colStren-secondar, which > indicates that en-US is being used, but with the (non-standard) POSIX > variant is being used, and that formatting of dates should use the > islamic calendar, with case being ignored in sorted lists. For more > information, see [LDML]. > > [Reason: replace a hypothetical example with a real one.] ... As a technical contributor, I object to the proposed change. The proposed replacement is not an example of language tagging, but rather of a locale. Randy _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 13 13:08:41 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52C2B28C848; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:08:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.543 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.543 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.106, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id erjSCA0nGbLh; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:08:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 659613A683C; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:08:40 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F07128C198 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:08:39 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id d42d9+HC9GrB for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:08:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from elasmtp-curtail.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-curtail.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.64]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AE613A683C for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:08:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from [66.167.203.224] (helo=oemcomputer) by elasmtp-curtail.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1JPOrg-0004wx-TY for ltru@ietf.org; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 16:10:01 -0500 Message-ID: <014c01c86e84$e29f7aa0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> From: "Randy Presuhn" To: "LTRU Working Group" References: <30b660a20802131101h3f58fa4bh6730cc706ad2d9d9@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:10:38 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-ELNK-Trace: 4488c18417c9426da92b9037bc8bcf44d4c20f6b8d69d8885d2a9c731cc891179647a8aabcadbda603a1329c60b68460350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 66.167.203.224 Subject: [Ltru] Proposed edit MD6 (davis) X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Hi - As co-chair, I'm splitting this into a separate thread, since it is, in my judgement, a proposal for a technical change rather than being merely editorial. Randy > From: "Mark Davis" > To: "LTRU Working Group" > Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 11:01 AM > Subject: [Ltru] Proposed edits (davis) ... > MD6 > The first record in the registry is a "File-Date" record. This > record contains the single field whose field-name is "File-Date" (see > Figure 4). The field-body of this record contains the last > modification date of this copy of the registry, making it possible to > compare different versions of the registry. The registry on the IANA > website is the most current. Versions with an older date than that > one are not up-to-date. > > File-Date: 2004-06-28 > %% > => > The first record in the registry is a "File-Date" record. This > record contains a required first field whose field-name is "File-Date" (see > Figure 4). The field-body of File-Date contains the last > modification date of this copy of the registry, making it possible to > compare different versions of the registry. The registry on the IANA > website is the most current. Versions with an older date than that > one are not up-to-date. > > Subsequent fields in the File-Date record are optional Comment fields. > Comments contains additional information about the registry, as > deemed appropriate for understanding the current state of the registry. > > For example: > > File-Date: 2009-09-10 > Comment: Updated on 2009-09-10 to add new codes from ISO 639-3. > Comment: Updated on 2009-06-14 to add new codes from ISO 3166. > Comment: Updated on 2008-07-12 to in accordance with RFC XXX (4646bis). > %% _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 13 13:09:55 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 864D63A67D6; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:09:55 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.542 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.542 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.105, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VxPU3YSYfbf6; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:09:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6E963A67D9; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:09:54 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 429383A67D6 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:09:53 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wMoY5hSJ0GWp for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:09:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.microsoft.com (smtp.microsoft.com [131.107.115.212]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CD003A6781 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:09:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from tk1-exhub-c101.redmond.corp.microsoft.com (157.56.116.111) by TK5-EXGWY-E801.partners.extranet.microsoft.com (10.251.56.50) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.1.240.5; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:11:15 -0800 Received: from NA-EXMSG-C117.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.62.46]) by tk1-exhub-c101.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.56.116.111]) with mapi; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:11:15 -0800 From: Peter Constable To: Addison Phillips , 'LTRU Working Group' Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:11:08 -0800 Thread-Topic: [Ltru] addition of text on macrolanguages and supporting table Thread-Index: AchuBhuWXiCAiu0pTI2ZnK09TTvtbQAfBeSw Message-ID: References: <47B2880D.40200@yahoo-inc.com> In-Reply-To: <47B2880D.40200@yahoo-inc.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [Ltru] addition of text on macrolanguages and supporting table X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org > From: ltru-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ltru-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > Addison Phillips > In Section 4.2 of the editor's copy of draft-12, we had previously > inserted text suggested by John Cowan as follows: > > --- > The pairs of macro and encompassed languages affected by this issue > when this document was published were: > > Arabic 'ar' Standard Arabic 'arb' > Konkani (macrolanguage) 'kok' Konkani (individual language) > 'knn' > Malay (macrolanguage) 'ms' Malay (individual language) 'mly' > Swahili (macrolanguage) 'sw' Swahili (individual language) > 'swh' > Uzbek 'uz' Northern Uzbek 'uzn' > Chinese 'zh' Mandarin Chinese 'cmn' > > Figure 8 > > -- > > I propose we do insert this text (although note that the table must be > edited as several lines are too long). It's not clear how this would fit into 4.2. Note that "this issue" must have an antecedent, but it's not clear what that would be. I wonder: did you mean for this to be inserted somewhere in 4.1? If so, exactly where would you add it? Peter _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 13 13:11:27 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 425E728C89D; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:11:27 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.232 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.232 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.414, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=0.619, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2cJF43mRWiSh; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:11:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 777C128C24B; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:11:26 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 738C83A6FAE for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:11:25 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jNLmIgVmgFSU for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:11:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.69]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F21528C24B for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:11:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from [66.167.203.224] (helo=oemcomputer) by elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1JPOuN-0005b9-8j for ltru@ietf.org; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 16:12:47 -0500 Message-ID: <015101c86e85$45d2ae80$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> From: "Randy Presuhn" To: "LTRU Working Group" References: <30b660a20802131101h3f58fa4bh6730cc706ad2d9d9@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:13:25 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-ELNK-Trace: 4488c18417c9426da92b9037bc8bcf44d4c20f6b8d69d8885d2a9c731cc89117d3ef10f284277162184807a0fc61755e350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 66.167.203.224 Subject: [Ltru] Proposed edits MD8 (davis) X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Hi - As a technical contributor... > From: "Mark Davis" > To: "LTRU Working Group" > Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 11:01 AM > Subject: [Ltru] Proposed edits (davis) ... > MD8 > replace the content of the source standard itself. The descriptions > are not intended to be the localized English names for the subtags. > Localization or translation of language tag and subtag descriptions > is out of scope of this document. > => > replace the content of the source standard itself. The descriptions > are not intended to be the localized English names for the subtags. > Localization or translation of language tag and subtag descriptions > is out of scope of this document. > > Descriptions should contain all and only that information necessary > to distinguish one subtag from others that it might be confused with. > They are not intended to provide general background information, > nor to provide all possible alternate names or designations. > > [add more guidance on scope of descriptions] "should" -> "SHOULD" (since this really is a normative usage) otherwise the proposal looks ok to me. Randy _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 13 13:17:16 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 143083A685C; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:17:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.216 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.216 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.398, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=0.619, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id K91GkgEStj13; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:17:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 964B73A6FEC; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:17:10 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4512B3A6FC1 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:17:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id efHJtNtmRkVu for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:17:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.69]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A8BC3A67D0 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:17:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from [66.167.203.224] (helo=oemcomputer) by elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1JPOzv-0003TL-TW for ltru@ietf.org; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 16:18:32 -0500 Message-ID: <015e01c86e86$1327af20$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> From: "Randy Presuhn" To: "LTRU Working Group" References: <30b660a20802131101h3f58fa4bh6730cc706ad2d9d9@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:19:09 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-ELNK-Trace: 4488c18417c9426da92b9037bc8bcf44d4c20f6b8d69d8885d2a9c731cc891171944d40d5193aa9a60b5ab716a174ee5350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 66.167.203.224 Subject: [Ltru] Proposed edit MD11 (davis) X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Hi - As co-chair, I'm splitting this item into a separate thread since it calls for what in my judgement could be understood to be a technical change. Randy > From: "Mark Davis" > To: "LTRU Working Group" > Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 11:01 AM > Subject: [Ltru] Proposed edits (davis) ... > MD11 > 2. Subtags of type 'Region' that have a Preferred-Value mapping in > the IANA registry (see Section 3.1) SHOULD be replaced with their > mapped value. Note: In rare cases, the mapped value will also > have a Preferred-Value. > > 3. Redundant or grandfathered tags that have a Preferred-Value > mapping in the IANA registry (see Section 3.1) MUST be replaced > with their mapped value. These items either are deprecated > mappings created before the adoption of this document (such as > the mapping of "no-nyn" to "nn" or "i-klingon" to "tlh") or are > the result of later registrations or additions to this document > (for example, "zh-hakka" was deprecated in favor of the ISO 639-3 > code 'hak' when this document was adopted). > > 4. Other subtags that have a Preferred-Value mapping in the IANA > registry (see Section 3.1) MUST be replaced with their mapped > value. These items consist entirely of clerical corrections to > ISO 639-1 in which the deprecated subtags have been maintained > for compatibility purposes. > => > 2. Subtags of type 'Region' that have a Preferred-Value mapping in > the IANA registry (see Section 3.1) are recursively replaced with their > mapped value. Note: In rare cases, the mapped value will also > have a Preferred-Value. > > 3. Redundant or grandfathered tags that have a Preferred-Value > mapping in the IANA registry (see Section 3.1) are recursively replaced > with their mapped value. These items either are deprecated > mappings created before the adoption of this document (such as > the mapping of "no-nyn" to "nn" or "i-klingon" to "tlh") or are > the result of later registrations or additions to this document > (for example, "zh-hakka" was deprecated in favor of the ISO 639-3 > code 'hak' when this document was adopted). > > 4. Other subtags that have a Preferred-Value mapping in the IANA > registry (see Section 3.1) are recursively replaced with their mapped > value. These items consist entirely of clerical corrections to > ISO 639-1 in which the deprecated subtags have been maintained > for compatibility purposes. > [We are defining 'canonical order'. MUST and SHOULD are inappropriate > in a definition -- and were inconsistently used, since #1 and #5 don't > use them. Also, we have to have recursive replacement of tags in order > to get an idempotent result!] _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 13 13:21:02 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BE013A7007; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:21:02 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.529 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.529 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.092, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WjM6k6DyetLF; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:21:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2475F3A6FFB; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:20:56 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 941333A681F for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:20:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ixcPFPc2riYR for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:20:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.65]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E93B03A6FEC for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:18:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from [66.167.203.224] (helo=oemcomputer) by elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1JPP1W-0004fj-53 for ltru@ietf.org; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 16:20:10 -0500 Message-ID: <016301c86e86$4dd2e900$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> From: "Randy Presuhn" To: "LTRU Working Group" References: <30b660a20802131101h3f58fa4bh6730cc706ad2d9d9@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:20:48 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-ELNK-Trace: 4488c18417c9426da92b9037bc8bcf44d4c20f6b8d69d8885d2a9c731cc8911782a2121afc79261cf4a22f79754c8176350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 66.167.203.224 Subject: [Ltru] Proposed edit MD12 (davis) X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Hi - As co-chair, I'm splitting this comment into a separate thread since in my judgement it could be understood to be a technical change. Randy > From: "Mark Davis" > To: "LTRU Working Group" > Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 11:01 AM > Subject: [Ltru] Proposed edits (davis) ... > MD12 > The 'Preferred-Value' field in records of type "grandfathered" and > "redundant" contains whole language tags that are strongly > RECOMMENDED for use in place of the record's value. In many cases, > the mappings were created by deprecation of the tags during the > period before this document was adopted. For example, the tag "no- > nyn" was deprecated in favor of the ISO 639-1-defined language code > 'nn'. > [ADD] > If the value of a Preferred-Value is not canonical (such as when it is > a tag or contains a subtag that itself has a Preferred-Value), then > a Comment > SHOULD be added to the record to that effect. For example: > > Preferred-Value: zh-hakka > Comment: The canonical form of "zh-hakka" is "hak". > _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 13 13:21:05 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED58B3A701B; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:21:04 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.533 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.533 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.096, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YzaSCxi21t9v; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:21:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CB1928C8DC; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:21:02 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3082F3A685C for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:21:00 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tNQOHHzidwaF for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:20:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.microsoft.com (mail2.microsoft.com [131.107.115.215]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB01628CA17 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:20:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from tk1-exhub-c101.redmond.corp.microsoft.com (157.56.116.111) by TK5-EXGWY-E802.partners.extranet.microsoft.com (10.251.56.168) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.1.240.5; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:21:36 -0800 Received: from NA-EXMSG-C117.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.62.46]) by tk1-exhub-c101.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.56.116.111]) with mapi; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:21:36 -0800 From: Peter Constable To: Randy Presuhn , LTRU Working Group Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:21:29 -0800 Thread-Topic: [Ltru] Proposed edits (davis) MD4 Thread-Index: AchuhHJEp0n3swHmRjOeMTnuv8sFuQAAVhYg Message-ID: References: <30b660a20802131101h3f58fa4bh6730cc706ad2d9d9@mail.gmail.com> <014701c86e84$83848e20$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> In-Reply-To: <014701c86e84$83848e20$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [Ltru] Proposed edits (davis) MD4 X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org I agree with Randy: we shouldn't use an example based on locales. I do think it would be good to change that wording in 2.2.7, however, since at this point most/all entries in Ethnologue would be in 639-3. And, given the comprehensive nature of 639-3, a private-use example would have to involve something it doesn't cover. (I'm at home, sick, and don't have the energy to think of better replacement text. I'll leave that for someone else.) Peter > -----Original Message----- > From: ltru-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ltru-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > Randy Presuhn > Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 1:08 PM > To: LTRU Working Group > Subject: [Ltru] Proposed edits (davis) MD4 > > Hi - > > > From: "Mark Davis" > > To: "LTRU Working Group" > > Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 11:01 AM > > Subject: [Ltru] Proposed edits (davis) > ... > > MD4 > > For example: Users who wished to utilize codes from the Ethnologue > > publication of SIL International for language identification might > > agree to exchange tags such as "az-Arab-x-AZE-derbend". This > example > > contains two private use subtags. The first is 'AZE' and the > second > > is 'derbend'. > > => > > For example: The Unicode Consortium defines a set of private use > > extensions in LDML (Locale Data Markup Language), such as > > en-US-x-ldml-POSIX-k-calendar-islamic-k-colStren-secondar, which > > indicates that en-US is being used, but with the (non-standard) POSIX > > variant is being used, and that formatting of dates should use the > > islamic calendar, with case being ignored in sorted lists. For more > > information, see [LDML]. > > > > [Reason: replace a hypothetical example with a real one.] > ... > > As a technical contributor, I object to the proposed change. The > proposed replacement is not an example of language tagging, > but rather of a locale. > > Randy > > _______________________________________________ > Ltru mailing list > Ltru@ietf.org > http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 13 13:21:10 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D618C3A702C; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:21:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.455 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.455 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.730, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, HTML_MESSAGE=1, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id R8PN0am1QoM1; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:21:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00EC63A6C49; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:21:03 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 019B93A6B2C for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:21:01 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kYFXL9z2C9QL for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:20:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from ag-out-0708.google.com (ag-out-0708.google.com [72.14.246.249]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 806893A6FCD for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:20:42 -0800 (PST) Received: by ag-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id 33so4748829agc.1 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:22:04 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.142.213.9 with SMTP id l9mr405234wfg.71.1202937723111; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:22:03 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.143.174.8 with HTTP; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:22:03 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <30b660a20802131322m6236c805ma29162351fada2bc@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:22:03 -0800 From: "Mark Davis" To: "Peter Constable" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 References: X-Google-Sender-Auth: 329f3dc08c6e9c83 Cc: "ltru@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Ltru] Editorial: wording in section 4.2 X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0100450198==" Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org --===============0100450198== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_28635_17192330.1202937723106" ------=_Part_28635_17192330.1202937723106 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline +1 On Feb 13, 2008 1:06 PM, Peter Constable wrote: > The second paragraph of section 4.2 begins as follows: > > "Validity of a tag is not everything." > > I don't like the style of that wording. Here's a suggested change: > > "Validity of a tag is not the only factor determining its > usefulness." > > Paragraph 3 begins as follows: > > "The relationship between the tag and the information it > identifies is defined by the context in which the tag > appears." > > This could be read as saying that the meaning of a tag can vary according > to usage context. That certainly is not the case. I think the following > better reflects what I think was intended: > > "The meaning of a given tag is not dependent on the > context in which it appears. The relationship between the > meaning of a tag and information objects to which the tag > is applied, however, can vary." > > > > Thanks, > Peter. > _______________________________________________ > Ltru mailing list > Ltru@ietf.org > http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru > -- Mark ------=_Part_28635_17192330.1202937723106 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline +1

On Feb 13, 2008 1:06 PM, Peter Constable <petercon@microsoft.com> wrote:
The second paragraph of section 4.2 begins as follows:

      "Validity of a tag is not everything."

I don't like the style of that wording. Here's a suggested change:

       "Validity of a tag is not the only factor determining its
       usefulness."

Paragraph 3 begins as follows:

       "The relationship between the tag and the information it
       identifies is defined by the context in which the tag
       appears."

This could be read as saying that the meaning of a tag can vary according to usage context. That certainly is not the case. I think the following better reflects what I think was intended:

       "The meaning of a given tag is not dependent on the
       context in which it appears. The relationship between the
       meaning of a tag and information objects to which the tag
       is applied, however, can vary."



Thanks,
Peter.
_______________________________________________
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Ltru@ietf.org
http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru



--
Mark ------=_Part_28635_17192330.1202937723106-- --===============0100450198== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru --===============0100450198==-- From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 13 13:24:51 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 559E03A6B4E; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:24:51 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.493 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.493 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.692, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, HTML_MESSAGE=1, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4wx2UJIJ2B7m; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:24:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 565883A69DF; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:24:50 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 669233A63EC for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:24:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id naFHNXB3yx4X for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:24:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from ag-out-0708.google.com (ag-out-0708.google.com [72.14.246.241]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DD983A6FF3 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:24:42 -0800 (PST) Received: by ag-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id 33so4757096agc.1 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:26:05 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.142.125.5 with SMTP id x5mr394108wfc.124.1202937963318; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:26:03 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.143.174.8 with HTTP; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:26:03 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <30b660a20802131326y38330a64x1cc88ff3af29fdd2@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:26:03 -0800 From: "Mark Davis" To: "Randy Presuhn" In-Reply-To: <015101c86e85$45d2ae80$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <30b660a20802131101h3f58fa4bh6730cc706ad2d9d9@mail.gmail.com> <015101c86e85$45d2ae80$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 0856920439484e62 Cc: LTRU Working Group Subject: Re: [Ltru] Proposed edits MD8 (davis) X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0509546818==" Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org --===============0509546818== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_28668_1822486.1202937963330" ------=_Part_28668_1822486.1202937963330 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline +1 On Feb 13, 2008 1:13 PM, Randy Presuhn wrote: > Hi - > > As a technical contributor... > > > From: "Mark Davis" > > To: "LTRU Working Group" > > Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 11:01 AM > > Subject: [Ltru] Proposed edits (davis) > ... > > MD8 > > replace the content of the source standard itself. The descriptions > > are not intended to be the localized English names for the subtags. > > Localization or translation of language tag and subtag descriptions > > is out of scope of this document. > > => > > replace the content of the source standard itself. The descriptions > > are not intended to be the localized English names for the subtags. > > Localization or translation of language tag and subtag descriptions > > is out of scope of this document. > > > > Descriptions should contain all and only that information necessary > > to distinguish one subtag from others that it might be confused with. > > They are not intended to provide general background information, > > nor to provide all possible alternate names or designations. > > > > [add more guidance on scope of descriptions] > > "should" -> "SHOULD" (since this really is a normative usage) > otherwise the proposal looks ok to me. > > Randy > > _______________________________________________ > Ltru mailing list > Ltru@ietf.org > http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru > -- Mark ------=_Part_28668_1822486.1202937963330 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline +1

On Feb 13, 2008 1:13 PM, Randy Presuhn <randy_presuhn@mindspring.com> wrote:
Hi -

As a technical contributor...

> From: "Mark Davis" <mark.davis@icu-project.org>
> To: "LTRU Working Group" <ltru@ietf.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 11:01 AM
> Subject: [Ltru] Proposed edits (davis)
...
> MD8
>    replace the content of the source standard itself.  The descriptions
>    are not intended to be the localized English names for the subtags.
>    Localization or translation of language tag and subtag descriptions
>    is out of scope of this document.
> =>
>    replace the content of the source standard itself.  The descriptions
>    are not intended to be the localized English names for the subtags.
>    Localization or translation of language tag and subtag descriptions
>    is out of scope of this document.
>
>    Descriptions should contain all and only that information necessary
>    to distinguish one subtag from others that it might be confused with.
>    They are not intended to provide general background information,
>    nor to provide all possible alternate names or designations.
>
> [add more guidance on scope of descriptions]

"should" -> "SHOULD" (since this really is a normative usage)
otherwise the proposal looks ok to me.

Randy

_______________________________________________
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http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru



--
Mark ------=_Part_28668_1822486.1202937963330-- --===============0509546818== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru --===============0509546818==-- From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 13 13:25:58 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B87D13A681F; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:25:58 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.526 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.526 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.089, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ztaN15M3P6Ct; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:25:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD47A3A6AB5; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:25:57 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 648B13A6B31 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:25:56 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4gn2LF33yFuU for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:25:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.microsoft.com (mail3.microsoft.com [131.107.115.214]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06F2D3A63EC for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:25:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from tk5-exhub-c103.redmond.corp.microsoft.com (157.54.70.186) by TK5-EXGWY-E803.partners.extranet.microsoft.com (10.251.56.169) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.1.240.5; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:27:13 -0800 Received: from NA-EXMSG-C117.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.62.46]) by tk5-exhub-c103.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.70.186]) with mapi; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:27:13 -0800 From: Peter Constable To: LTRU Working Group Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:27:06 -0800 Thread-Topic: [Ltru] folding boundaries Thread-Index: AchuhG0nsOb8xiTmTdGtAj2wa4Sc2wAArupQ Message-ID: References: <47B28753.5090406@yahoo-inc.com> <30b660a20802130859n7cb1c324v31dac9b1473e7aa3@mail.gmail.com> <009901c86e7e$8a1f4960$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> <30b660a20802131238t22b168f1p9aa0c9fd39d3fd21@mail.gmail.com> <010301c86e80$f2e19b40$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> <47B35BF7.3060904@yahoo-inc.com> In-Reply-To: <47B35BF7.3060904@yahoo-inc.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [Ltru] folding boundaries X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org +1 > -----Original Message----- > From: ltru-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ltru-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > Addison Phillips > Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 1:07 PM > To: Randy Presuhn > Cc: LTRU Working Group > Subject: Re: [Ltru] folding boundaries > > Randy Presuhn wrote: > > Hi - > > > >> From: "Mark Davis" > >> To: "Randy Presuhn" > >> Cc: "LTRU Working Group" > >> Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 12:38 PM > >> Subject: Re: [Ltru] folding boundaries > >> > >> How about: > >> > >> Folding is done according to customary conventions for line-wrapping. > >> This is typically on whitespace boundaries, but may break between > >> other characters where a language does not use whitespace between > >> words. In any event, there MUST never be breaks inside a multibyte > >> UTF-8 sequence nor in the middle of a combining character sequence. > >> For more information, see [UAX14]. > > > > Seems very clear to me as a technical contributor. > > > +1 > > Addison > > -- > Addison Phillips > Globalization Architect -- Yahoo! Inc. > Chair -- W3C Internationalization Core WG > > Internationalization is an architecture. > It is not a feature. > _______________________________________________ > Ltru mailing list > Ltru@ietf.org > http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 13 13:26:01 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B57243A6FA7; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:26:01 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.468 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.468 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.031, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JSM5io5I2jg3; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:26:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DECDE3A6B31; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:26:00 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E1A73A681F for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:25:59 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sr1qL+dfmDjW for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:25:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from earth.ccil.org (earth.ccil.org [192.190.237.11]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A3533A6B4E for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:25:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from cowan by earth.ccil.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1JPP8R-0006J5-MO; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 16:27:19 -0500 Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 16:27:19 -0500 To: Randy Presuhn Message-ID: <20080213212719.GG7215@mercury.ccil.org> References: <013e01c86e83$6937e0e0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <013e01c86e83$6937e0e0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11) From: John Cowan Cc: ltru@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Ltru] WGLC: remove new region subtags from4646bis/4645bis (long) X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Randy Presuhn scripsit: > In the context of discussions like the one about what to do about 'UK', > I think the question is legitimate and reasonable. Important is that > the question is *not* about whether there would be any differences in > content there might be, but rather simply how the region 'DG' refers to > can be distinguished from the region 'IO' refers to. Are they the same > bit of land and ocean or not? If they are the same bit of land and ocean, > then it seems we have a UK/GB situation. If they aren't, then there's > nothing to worry about *here*. Easily answered. IO comprises the six atolls of the Chagos Archipelago, of which Diego Garcia (DG) is one: at present, the only one which is used for anything -- it is a joint US/GB military base. So administratively DG is part of IO, just as administratively AC and TA are part of SH. -- John Cowan http://ccil.org/~cowan cowan@ccil.org Monday we watch-a Firefly's house, but he no come out. He wasn't home. Tuesday we go to the ball game, but he fool us. He no show up. Wednesday he go to the ball game, and we fool him. We no show up. Thursday was a double-header. Nobody show up. Friday it rained all day. There was no ball game, so we stayed home and we listened to it on-a the radio. --Chicolini _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 13 13:27:23 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8013F3A6B4E; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:27:23 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.524 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.524 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.661, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, HTML_MESSAGE=1, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9arNH9APdzw5; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:27:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 731173A681F; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:27:22 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 158BC3A63EC for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:27:21 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5IAVrEcrzPty for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:27:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from ag-out-0708.google.com (ag-out-0708.google.com [72.14.246.241]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 877F83A681F for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:27:19 -0800 (PST) Received: by ag-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id 33so4763031agc.1 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:28:41 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.142.128.6 with SMTP id a6mr410958wfd.74.1202938119792; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:28:39 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.143.174.8 with HTTP; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:28:39 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <30b660a20802131328l6cd66779y59f1a4dd9b7f089f@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:28:39 -0800 From: "Mark Davis" To: "Randy Presuhn" In-Reply-To: <015e01c86e86$1327af20$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <30b660a20802131101h3f58fa4bh6730cc706ad2d9d9@mail.gmail.com> <015e01c86e86$1327af20$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 9d145da8d08a66e6 Cc: LTRU Working Group Subject: Re: [Ltru] Proposed edit MD11 (davis) X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1288387596==" Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org --===============1288387596== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_28686_9640807.1202938119810" ------=_Part_28686_9640807.1202938119810 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I do not believe it is a technical change. When you state a definition, you don't use the term MUST. When you *use* that definition you might have MUST. Moreover, as I said, the other 2 processing steps don't use MUST. Mark On Feb 13, 2008 1:19 PM, Randy Presuhn wrote: > Hi - > > As co-chair, I'm splitting this item into a separate thread since it > calls for what in my judgement could be understood to be a technical > change. > > Randy > > > From: "Mark Davis" > > To: "LTRU Working Group" > > Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 11:01 AM > > Subject: [Ltru] Proposed edits (davis) > ... > > MD11 > > 2. Subtags of type 'Region' that have a Preferred-Value mapping in > > the IANA registry (see Section 3.1) SHOULD be replaced with their > > mapped value. Note: In rare cases, the mapped value will also > > have a Preferred-Value. > > > > 3. Redundant or grandfathered tags that have a Preferred-Value > > mapping in the IANA registry (see Section 3.1) MUST be replaced > > with their mapped value. These items either are deprecated > > mappings created before the adoption of this document (such as > > the mapping of "no-nyn" to "nn" or "i-klingon" to "tlh") or are > > the result of later registrations or additions to this document > > (for example, "zh-hakka" was deprecated in favor of the ISO 639-3 > > code 'hak' when this document was adopted). > > > > 4. Other subtags that have a Preferred-Value mapping in the IANA > > registry (see Section 3.1) MUST be replaced with their mapped > > value. These items consist entirely of clerical corrections to > > ISO 639-1 in which the deprecated subtags have been maintained > > for compatibility purposes. > > => > > 2. Subtags of type 'Region' that have a Preferred-Value mapping in > > the IANA registry (see Section 3.1) are recursively replaced with > their > > mapped value. Note: In rare cases, the mapped value will also > > have a Preferred-Value. > > > > 3. Redundant or grandfathered tags that have a Preferred-Value > > mapping in the IANA registry (see Section 3.1) are recursively > replaced > > with their mapped value. These items either are deprecated > > mappings created before the adoption of this document (such as > > the mapping of "no-nyn" to "nn" or "i-klingon" to "tlh") or are > > the result of later registrations or additions to this document > > (for example, "zh-hakka" was deprecated in favor of the ISO 639-3 > > code 'hak' when this document was adopted). > > > > 4. Other subtags that have a Preferred-Value mapping in the IANA > > registry (see Section 3.1) are recursively replaced with their > mapped > > value. These items consist entirely of clerical corrections to > > ISO 639-1 in which the deprecated subtags have been maintained > > for compatibility purposes. > > [We are defining 'canonical order'. MUST and SHOULD are inappropriate > > in a definition -- and were inconsistently used, since #1 and #5 don't > > use them. Also, we have to have recursive replacement of tags in order > > to get an idempotent result!] > > > _______________________________________________ > Ltru mailing list > Ltru@ietf.org > http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru > -- Mark ------=_Part_28686_9640807.1202938119810 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I do not believe it is a technical change. When you state a definition, you don't use the term MUST. When you *use* that definition you might have MUST.

Moreover, as I said, the other 2 processing steps don't use MUST.

Mark

On Feb 13, 2008 1:19 PM, Randy Presuhn <randy_presuhn@mindspring.com> wrote:
Hi -

As co-chair, I'm splitting this item into a separate thread since it
calls for what in my judgement could be understood to be a technical
change.

Randy

> From: "Mark Davis" <mark.davis@icu-project.org>
> To: "LTRU Working Group" <ltru@ietf.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 11:01 AM
> Subject: [Ltru] Proposed edits (davis)
...
> MD11
>    2.  Subtags of type 'Region' that have a Preferred-Value mapping in
>        the IANA registry (see Section 3.1) SHOULD be replaced with their
>        mapped value.  Note: In rare cases, the mapped value will also
>        have a Preferred-Value.
>
>    3.  Redundant or grandfathered tags that have a Preferred-Value
>        mapping in the IANA registry (see Section 3.1) MUST be replaced
>        with their mapped value.  These items either are deprecated
>        mappings created before the adoption of this document (such as
>        the mapping of "no-nyn" to "nn" or "i-klingon" to "tlh") or are
>        the result of later registrations or additions to this document
>        (for example, "zh-hakka" was deprecated in favor of the ISO 639-3
>        code 'hak' when this document was adopted).
>
>    4.  Other subtags that have a Preferred-Value mapping in the IANA
>        registry (see Section 3.1) MUST be replaced with their mapped
>        value.  These items consist entirely of clerical corrections to
>        ISO 639-1 in which the deprecated subtags have been maintained
>        for compatibility purposes.
> =>
>    2.  Subtags of type 'Region' that have a Preferred-Value mapping in
>        the IANA registry (see Section 3.1) are recursively replaced with their
>        mapped value.  Note: In rare cases, the mapped value will also
>        have a Preferred-Value.
>
>    3.  Redundant or grandfathered tags that have a Preferred-Value
>        mapping in the IANA registry (see Section 3.1) are recursively replaced
>        with their mapped value.  These items either are deprecated
>        mappings created before the adoption of this document (such as
>        the mapping of "no-nyn" to "nn" or "i-klingon" to "tlh") or are
>        the result of later registrations or additions to this document
>        (for example, "zh-hakka" was deprecated in favor of the ISO 639-3
>        code 'hak' when this document was adopted).
>
>    4.  Other subtags that have a Preferred-Value mapping in the IANA
>        registry (see Section 3.1) are recursively replaced with their mapped
>        value.  These items consist entirely of clerical corrections to
>        ISO 639-1 in which the deprecated subtags have been maintained
>        for compatibility purposes.
> [We are defining 'canonical order'. MUST and SHOULD are inappropriate
> in a definition -- and were inconsistently used, since #1 and #5 don't
> use them. Also, we have to have recursive replacement of tags in order
> to get an idempotent result!]


_______________________________________________
Ltru mailing list
Ltru@ietf.org
http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru



--
Mark ------=_Part_28686_9640807.1202938119810-- --===============1288387596== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru --===============1288387596==-- From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 13 13:31:48 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA0413A701A; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:31:48 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.021 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.021 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.584, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, HTML_MESSAGE=1, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id or7AoKIlM+nD; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:31:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30AE93A7011; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:31:45 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3A4D3A6FC1 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:31:44 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7e27X4hM6mYj for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:31:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.microsoft.com (mail1.microsoft.com [131.107.115.212]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 258A43A6FFF for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:31:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from tk1-exhub-c104.redmond.corp.microsoft.com (157.56.116.117) by TK5-EXGWY-E801.partners.extranet.microsoft.com (10.251.56.50) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.1.240.5; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:33:03 -0800 Received: from NA-EXMSG-C117.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.62.46]) by tk1-exhub-c104.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.56.116.117]) with mapi; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:33:00 -0800 From: Peter Constable To: LTRU Working Group Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:32:54 -0800 Thread-Topic: [Ltru] source standards' dates in comment registry Draft-4645bis Thread-Index: AchugyELQVS9qtDOTAC5YP7kgnqiHQABH3qQ Message-ID: References: <001801c8616d$5b5a4030$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> <30b660a20802121117t4d7a7b32gabd3c98050a5b65f@mail.gmail.com> <00e301c86dcd$66d1ae00$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> <47B25FEA.6050203@yahoo-inc.com> <30b660a20802131213x27283c91t98bb9ebf81dc55d5@mail.gmail.com> <00bf01c86e7f$e4f4a780$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> <30b660a20802131257u1a1e4961od31ae93883bb139f@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <30b660a20802131257u1a1e4961od31ae93883bb139f@mail.gmail.com> Accept-Language: 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from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C091A3A6F00; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:37:43 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.539 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.539 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.102, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3K6EpV+G1R2f; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:37:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0ED0A3A6D73; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:37:43 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62EC13A6B51 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:37:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id K3scT8r2A0wI for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:37:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.65]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0902D3A6C3C for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:37:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from [66.167.203.224] (helo=oemcomputer) by elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1JPPJi-0007Dh-Nl for ltru@ietf.org; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 16:38:58 -0500 Message-ID: <019501c86e88$ee6d3080$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> From: "Randy Presuhn" To: "LTRU Working Group" References: <30b660a20802131101h3f58fa4bh6730cc706ad2d9d9@mail.gmail.com> <015e01c86e86$1327af20$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> <30b660a20802131328l6cd66779y59f1a4dd9b7f089f@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:39:36 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-ELNK-Trace: 4488c18417c9426da92b9037bc8bcf44d4c20f6b8d69d8885d2a9c731cc8911776b2ea3695baa2f6af251661761ae035350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 66.167.203.224 Subject: Re: [Ltru] Proposed edit MD11 (davis) X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Hi - As co-chair - For example: 2. Subtags of type 'Region' that have a Preferred-Value mapping in the IANA registry (see Section 3.1) SHOULD be replaced with their mapped value. Note: In rare cases, the mapped value will also have a Preferred-Value. 2. Subtags of type 'Region' that have a Preferred-Value mapping in the IANA registry (see Section 3.1) are recursively replaced with their mapped value. Note: In rare cases, the mapped value will also have a Preferred-Value. These two descriptions of step 2 have potentially different results - in the first version, the replacement is optional, in the second version it is unconditional. This is a technical change. As a technical contributor: I agree with making this change. It's probably what we meant all along. :-) Randy _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 13 13:42:05 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF4373A6CD2; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:42:05 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.545 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.545 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.108, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lFHpHNhbUggi; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:42:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F15953A6B2F; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:42:04 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC6493A69DF for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:42:03 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 94aVQDTB1JTZ for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:42:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.65]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D10A3A6AE9 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:42:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from [66.167.203.224] (helo=oemcomputer) by elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1JPPO1-0003OZ-KK for ltru@ietf.org; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 16:43:25 -0500 Message-ID: <01aa01c86e89$8d99c920$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> From: "Randy Presuhn" To: "LTRU Working Group" References: <001801c8616d$5b5a4030$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81><30b660a20802121117t4d7a7b32gabd3c98050a5b65f@mail.gmail.com><00e301c86dcd$66d1ae00$6801a8c0@oemcomputer><47B25FEA.6050203@yahoo-inc.com><30b660a20802131213x27283c91t98bb9ebf81dc55d5@mail.gmail.com><00bf01c86e7f$e4f4a780$6801a8c0@oemcomputer><30b660a20802131257u1a1e4961od31ae93883bb139f@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:44:03 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-ELNK-Trace: 4488c18417c9426da92b9037bc8bcf44d4c20f6b8d69d8885d2a9c731cc89117c478b3cb7fe1f98cfb4733eb8dd18f00350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 66.167.203.224 Subject: Re: [Ltru] source standards' dates in comment registry Draft-4645bis X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org SGkgLQoKQXMgYSB0ZWNobmljYWwgY29udHJpYnV0b3IuLi4KCj4gRnJvbTogIlBldGVyIENvbnN0 YWJsZSIgPHBldGVyY29uQG1pY3Jvc29mdC5jb20+Cj4gVG86ICJMVFJVIFdvcmtpbmcgR3JvdXAi IDxsdHJ1QGlldGYub3JnPgo+IFNlbnQ6IFdlZG5lc2RheSwgRmVicnVhcnkgMTMsIDIwMDggMToz MiBQTQo+IFN1YmplY3Q6IFJlOiBbTHRydV0gc291cmNlIHN0YW5kYXJkcycgZGF0ZXMgaW4gY29t bWVudCByZWdpc3RyeSBEcmFmdC00NjQ1YmlzCj4KPiBPdGhlciB0aGFuIHBvc3NpYmxlIGltcGFj dCBvbiBleGlzdGluZyBwYXJzZXJzLAoKRm9yIG1lLCB0aGlzIG1lYW5zIHRoZXJlIG5lZWRzIHRv IGJlIGEgKmh1Z2UqIGJlbmVmaXQgdG8gbWFraW5nCnN1Y2ggYSBjaGFuZ2UgdG8ganVzdGlmeSB0 aGUgcmlzay4gIEkgZG9uJ3Qgc2VlIGl0LiAgVGhpcyBraW5kCm9mIHJldmlzaW9uIGhpc3Rvcnkg aW5mb3JtYXRpb24gaXMgb2YgdmFsdWUgdG8gdGhlIG1haW50YWluZXIgb2YKdGhlIHJlZ2lzdHJ5 LCByYXRoZXIgdGhhbiB0aGUgdXNlciwgYW5kIGNvdWxkIGp1c3QgYXMgd2VsbCBiZQprZXB0ICJv dXQgb2YgYmFuZCIgKGFuZCBwcm9iYWJseSBhbHJlYWR5IGV4aXN0cyB3aGF0ZXZlciByZXZpc2lv bgpjb250cm9sIHNvZnR3YXJlIGlzIHVzZWQgdG8gbWFpbnRhaW4gdGhlIGZpbGUpCgo+IEkgZG9u 4oCZdCBzZWUgYSBwcm9ibGVtIHdpdGggaGF2ZSBjb21tZW50IGZpZWxkcyBpbiB0aGUgRmlsZS1E YXRlIHJlY29yZCwKPiBvciBoYXZpbmcgY29tbWVudHMgYmVmb3JlIG9yIGFmdGVyIHRoZSBGaWxl LURhdGUgcmVjb3JkLgo+Cj4gSeKAmWxsIG5vdGUsIHRob3VnaCwgdGhhdCB0aGlzIGlzIGEgKm5l dyogdGVjaG5pY2FsIGNoYW5nZS4KPiBJZiB3ZeKAmXJlIGluIFdHIGxhc3QtY2FsbCwgSSBob3Bl IHdlIGRvbuKAmXQgZ2V0IGJvZ2dlZCBkb3duIGluIGZlYXR1cmUgY3JlZXAuCgpBZ3JlZWQuCgpS YW5keQoKCl9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fCkx0 cnUgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0Ckx0cnVAaWV0Zi5vcmcKaHR0cDovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFu L2xpc3RpbmZvL2x0cnUK From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 13 14:10:54 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CFB63A69A9; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 14:10:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.044 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.044 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.481, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2viUsEYCwGWh; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 14:10:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 998D13A6B14; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 14:10:53 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3143F3A6877 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 14:10:52 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Uf5FCm+kHc-H for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 14:10:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.bortzmeyer.org (virtual3.netaktiv.com [80.67.170.53]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C8893A683E for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 14:10:51 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail.bortzmeyer.org (Postfix, from userid 10) id 33947240824; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 23:12:09 +0100 (CET) Received: by mail.sources.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id C6AF613226; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 23:07:59 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 23:07:59 +0100 From: Stephane Bortzmeyer To: Mark Davis Message-ID: <20080213220759.GB29989@sources.org> References: <002601c86ab4$6f974020$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> <20080213084528.GA13771@nic.fr> <30b660a20802131017i4565981s2d0d7ad746359a39@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <30b660a20802131017i4565981s2d0d7ad746359a39@mail.gmail.com> X-Transport: UUCP rules X-Operating-System: Debian GNU/Linux 3.1 User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i Cc: LTRU Working Group Subject: Re: [Ltru] Some typos (Was: Begin LTRU WG last call on 4646bis and 4645bis X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org On Wed, Feb 13, 2008 at 10:17:10AM -0800, Mark Davis wrote a message of 125 lines which said: > > 5) All references to RFC 4234 should be replaced by references to RFC > > 5234 (no consequences for us since we do not use LWSP) > > > 0 Why? What's the problem with RFC 5234? _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 13 15:31:11 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E8703A701D; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 15:31:11 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.585, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, HTML_MESSAGE=1, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pD3DEMl2K5uu; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 15:31:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 578BE3A6FFD; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 15:31:10 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DEFA03A6FF8 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 15:31:08 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9d+zlsxL+W+3 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 15:31:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from ag-out-0708.google.com (ag-out-0708.google.com [72.14.246.240]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95A003A6FFD for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 15:31:07 -0800 (PST) Received: by ag-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id 33so4974983agc.1 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 15:32:29 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.142.158.17 with SMTP id g17mr497167wfe.157.1202945548712; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 15:32:28 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.143.174.8 with HTTP; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 15:32:28 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <30b660a20802131532q484b1c7chfb40d58c784794e1@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 15:32:28 -0800 From: "Mark Davis" To: "Stephane Bortzmeyer" In-Reply-To: <20080213220759.GB29989@sources.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <002601c86ab4$6f974020$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> <20080213084528.GA13771@nic.fr> <30b660a20802131017i4565981s2d0d7ad746359a39@mail.gmail.com> <20080213220759.GB29989@sources.org> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 6987654ded11f947 Cc: LTRU Working Group Subject: Re: [Ltru] Some typos (Was: Begin LTRU WG last call on 4646bis and 4645bis X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1315960210==" Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org --===============1315960210== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_29468_17002877.1202945548789" ------=_Part_29468_17002877.1202945548789 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline 0 meaning no opinion (not familiar with the situation) -1 would mean disagree. Mark On Feb 13, 2008 2:07 PM, Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote: > On Wed, Feb 13, 2008 at 10:17:10AM -0800, > Mark Davis wrote > a message of 125 lines which said: > > > > 5) All references to RFC 4234 should be replaced by references to RFC > > > 5234 (no consequences for us since we do not use LWSP) > > > > > > 0 > > Why? What's the problem with RFC 5234? > -- Mark ------=_Part_29468_17002877.1202945548789 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline 0 meaning no opinion (not familiar with the situation)

-1 would mean disagree.

Mark

On Feb 13, 2008 2:07 PM, Stephane Bortzmeyer <bortzmeyer@nic.fr> wrote:
On Wed, Feb 13, 2008 at 10:17:10AM -0800,
 Mark Davis <mark.davis@icu-project.org> wrote
 a message of 125 lines which said:

> > 5) All references to RFC 4234 should be replaced by references to RFC
> > 5234 (no consequences for us since we do not use LWSP)
>
>
> 0

Why? What's the problem with RFC 5234?



--
Mark ------=_Part_29468_17002877.1202945548789-- --===============1315960210== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru --===============1315960210==-- From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 13 23:35:05 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00C0D28C9F4; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 23:35:05 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 2.946 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.946 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.087, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, J_CHICKENPOX_23=0.6, RCVD_IN_NJABL_RELAY=2.696, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5I+xgDmiMlP8; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 23:35:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43A8E28CAD4; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 23:35:04 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C28228CAD4 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 23:35:03 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Drf387zX6Q+y for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 23:35:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from scmailgw2.scop.aoyama.ac.jp (scmailgw2.scop.aoyama.ac.jp [133.2.251.195]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C98F28C9F4 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2008 23:34:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from scmse2.scbb.aoyama.ac.jp (scmse2 [133.2.253.17]) by scmailgw2.scop.aoyama.ac.jp (secret/secret) with SMTP id m1E7aKPW001267 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 16:36:21 +0900 (JST) Received: from (133.2.206.133) by scmse2.scbb.aoyama.ac.jp via smtp id 0189_893ab6d4_dacf_11dc_979e_0014221f2a2d; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 16:36:20 +0900 Received: from Tanzawa.it.aoyama.ac.jp ([133.2.210.1]:39814) by itmail.it.aoyama.ac.jp with [XMail 1.22 ESMTP Server] id for from ; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 16:31:59 +0900 Message-Id: <6.0.0.20.2.20080214161516.09f2d200@localhost> X-Sender: duerst@localhost X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6J Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 16:16:28 +0900 To: "Mark Davis" , "Stephane Bortzmeyer" From: Martin Duerst In-Reply-To: <30b660a20802131532q484b1c7chfb40d58c784794e1@mail.gmail.co m> References: <002601c86ab4$6f974020$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> <20080213084528.GA13771@nic.fr> <30b660a20802131017i4565981s2d0d7ad746359a39@mail.gmail.com> <20080213220759.GB29989@sources.org> <30b660a20802131532q484b1c7chfb40d58c784794e1@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Cc: LTRU Working Group Subject: Re: [Ltru] Some typos (Was: Begin LTRU WG last call on 4646bis and4645bis X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org As a technical contributor, +1 for replacing RFC 4234 with RFC 5234, because the later is an update of the former. Regards, Martin. At 08:32 08/02/14, Mark Davis wrote: >0 meaning no opinion (not familiar with the situation) > >-1 would mean disagree. > >Mark > >On Feb 13, 2008 2:07 PM, Stephane Bortzmeyer <bortzmeyer@nic.fr> wrote: >>On Wed, Feb 13, 2008 at 10:17:10AM -0800, >> Mark Davis <mark.davis@icu-project.org> wrote >> a message of 125 lines which said: >> >>> > 5) All references to RFC 4234 should be replaced by references to RFC >>> > 5234 (no consequences for us since we do not use LWSP) >>> >>> >>> 0 >> >>Why? What's the problem with RFC 5234? > > > >-- >Mark >_______________________________________________ >Ltru mailing list >Ltru@ietf.org >http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru #-#-# Martin J. Du"rst, Assoc. Professor, Aoyama Gakuin University #-#-# http://www.sw.it.aoyama.ac.jp mailto:duerst@it.aoyama.ac.jp _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Thu Feb 14 07:06:16 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 317C428CF05; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 07:06:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.757 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.757 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.194, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0x48oc3bqTdD; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 07:06:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D00A28CF66; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 07:06:15 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 874BF28CF93 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 07:06:13 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9+NvCuoTs91g for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 07:06:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.bortzmeyer.org (bortzmeyer.netaktiv.com [80.67.170.53]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A132528CF56 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 07:05:52 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail.bortzmeyer.org (Postfix, from userid 10) id B2F8D240827; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 16:07:08 +0100 (CET) Received: by mail.sources.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 0EF6011794; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 16:06:16 +0100 (CET) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 16:06:16 +0100 From: Stephane Bortzmeyer To: LTRU Working Group Message-ID: <20080214150615.GA30974@sources.org> References: <30b660a20802131101h3f58fa4bh6730cc706ad2d9d9@mail.gmail.com> <014c01c86e84$e29f7aa0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <014c01c86e84$e29f7aa0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> X-Transport: UUCP rules X-Operating-System: Debian GNU/Linux 3.1 User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i Subject: Re: [Ltru] Proposed edit MD6 (davis) X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org > > Subsequent fields in the File-Date record are optional Comment fields. > > Comment: Updated on 2009-09-10 to add new codes from ISO 639-3. To me, it is not an editorial fix but a new technical feature. It has merits but, IMHO, WGLC is not the moment to add it. [And, if we add new stuff in the format of the registry, I would prefer ordinary comments, as all formats have: # Updated on 2009-09-10 to add new codes from ISO 639-3 ] _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Thu Feb 14 07:26:45 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA56D28CFEC; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 07:26:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.759 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.759 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.322, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4Inv65tcAaeJ; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 07:26:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D35D228CF92; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 07:26:44 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 537D128CFE1 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 07:26:44 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id niBC-EzEZHvR for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 07:26:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from rsmtp2.corp.yahoo.com (rsmtp2.corp.yahoo.com [207.126.228.150]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2145128CF43 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 07:26:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.72.73.27] (snvvpn1-10-72-73-c27.corp.yahoo.com [10.72.73.27]) by rsmtp2.corp.yahoo.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/y.rout) with ESMTP id m1EFRkAc085950; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 07:27:46 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <47B45DF2.1090206@yahoo-inc.com> Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 07:27:46 -0800 From: Addison Phillips User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Stephane Bortzmeyer References: <30b660a20802131101h3f58fa4bh6730cc706ad2d9d9@mail.gmail.com> <014c01c86e84$e29f7aa0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> <20080214150615.GA30974@sources.org> In-Reply-To: <20080214150615.GA30974@sources.org> Cc: LTRU Working Group Subject: Re: [Ltru] Proposed edit MD6 (davis) X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote: >>> Subsequent fields in the File-Date record are optional Comment fields. >>> Comment: Updated on 2009-09-10 to add new codes from ISO 639-3. > > To me, it is not an editorial fix but a new technical feature. It has > merits but, IMHO, WGLC is not the moment to add it. > > [And, if we add new stuff in the format of the registry, I would > prefer ordinary comments, as all formats have: > > # Updated on 2009-09-10 to add new codes from ISO 639-3 > All formats but the registry! This is one of those revived battles from the 4646 era. The WG didn't feel then that file-level comments were necessary and didn't allow for them (I don't agree with that decision). The question now is whether adding them will break things. I personally prefer to use the record separator to introduce comments, on the theory that empty records will be ignored or at least harmless. But there is no telling what foolishness has been done in someone else's implementation. OTOH, I tend to think that the number of record-jar or registry processors extant is going to be small and reasonably tolerant of this change. I *would* thus propose once again that we include file-level comments, but this is WGLC and there was consensus before that this was unnecessary. So that suggests we be cautious. We've lived without comments until now. We may as well keep it that way. Addison -- Addison Phillips Globalization Architect -- Yahoo! Inc. Chair -- W3C Internationalization Core WG Internationalization is an architecture. It is not a feature. _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Thu Feb 14 07:31:46 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E712428CF19; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 07:31:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.643 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.643 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.542, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, HTML_MESSAGE=1, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Y07B9bW+lzBF; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 07:31:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2E0C28CF38; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 07:31:45 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC4C428CF19 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 07:31:44 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mXWh7ohRVwGR for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 07:31:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from ag-out-0708.google.com (ag-out-0708.google.com [72.14.246.241]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAF6C28CF0F for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 07:31:43 -0800 (PST) Received: by ag-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id 33so6580239agc.1 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 07:33:04 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.142.188.4 with SMTP id l4mr1261743wff.92.1203003183915; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 07:33:03 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.143.174.8 with HTTP; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 07:33:03 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <30b660a20802140733u6dce4de5la7c18c06369e19c8@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 07:33:03 -0800 From: "Mark Davis" To: "Addison Phillips" In-Reply-To: <47B45DF2.1090206@yahoo-inc.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <30b660a20802131101h3f58fa4bh6730cc706ad2d9d9@mail.gmail.com> <014c01c86e84$e29f7aa0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> <20080214150615.GA30974@sources.org> <47B45DF2.1090206@yahoo-inc.com> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 9394124092b877c3 Cc: LTRU Working Group Subject: Re: [Ltru] Proposed edit MD6 (davis) X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0232381143==" Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org --===============0232381143== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_2448_28544959.1203003183879" ------=_Part_2448_28544959.1203003183879 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Ok, I agree that this is not a crucial feature. On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 7:27 AM, Addison Phillips wrote: > Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote: > >>> Subsequent fields in the File-Date record are optional Comment > fields. > >>> Comment: Updated on 2009-09-10 to add new codes from ISO 639-3. > > > > To me, it is not an editorial fix but a new technical feature. It has > > merits but, IMHO, WGLC is not the moment to add it. > > > > [And, if we add new stuff in the format of the registry, I would > > prefer ordinary comments, as all formats have: > > > > # Updated on 2009-09-10 to add new codes from ISO 639-3 > > > > All formats but the registry! This is one of those revived battles from > the 4646 era. The WG didn't feel then that file-level comments were > necessary and didn't allow for them (I don't agree with that decision). > > The question now is whether adding them will break things. I personally > prefer to use the record separator to introduce comments, on the theory > that empty records will be ignored or at least harmless. But there is no > telling what foolishness has been done in someone else's implementation. > > OTOH, I tend to think that the number of record-jar or registry > processors extant is going to be small and reasonably tolerant of this > change. > > I *would* thus propose once again that we include file-level comments, > but this is WGLC and there was consensus before that this was > unnecessary. So that suggests we be cautious. We've lived without > comments until now. We may as well keep it that way. > > Addison > > -- > Addison Phillips > Globalization Architect -- Yahoo! Inc. > Chair -- W3C Internationalization Core WG > > Internationalization is an architecture. > It is not a feature. > _______________________________________________ > Ltru mailing list > Ltru@ietf.org > http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru > -- Mark ------=_Part_2448_28544959.1203003183879 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Ok, I agree that this is not a crucial feature.

On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 7:27 AM, Addison Phillips <addison@yahoo-inc.com> wrote:
Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote:
>>>   Subsequent fields in the File-Date record are optional Comment fields.
>>>    Comment: Updated on 2009-09-10 to add new codes from ISO 639-3.
>
> To me, it is not an editorial fix but a new technical feature. It has
> merits but, IMHO, WGLC is not the moment to add it.
>
> [And, if we add new stuff in the format of the registry, I would
> prefer ordinary comments, as all formats have:
>
> # Updated on 2009-09-10 to add new codes from ISO 639-3
>

All formats but the registry! This is one of those revived battles from
the 4646 era. The WG didn't feel then that file-level comments were
necessary and didn't allow for them (I don't agree with that decision).

The question now is whether adding them will break things. I personally
prefer to use the record separator to introduce comments, on the theory
that empty records will be ignored or at least harmless. But there is no
telling what foolishness has been done in someone else's implementation.

OTOH, I tend to think that the number of record-jar or registry
processors extant is going to be small and reasonably tolerant of this
change.

I *would* thus propose once again that we include file-level comments,
but this is WGLC and there was consensus before that this was
unnecessary. So that suggests we be cautious. We've lived without
comments until now. We may as well keep it that way.

Addison

--
Addison Phillips
Globalization Architect -- Yahoo! Inc.
Chair -- W3C Internationalization Core WG

Internationalization is an architecture.
It is not a feature.
_______________________________________________
Ltru mailing list
Ltru@ietf.org
http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru



--
Mark ------=_Part_2448_28544959.1203003183879-- --===============0232381143== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru --===============0232381143==-- From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Thu Feb 14 07:35:50 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 733C128CF48; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 07:35:50 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.792 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.792 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.393, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, HTML_MESSAGE=1, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qvclr2vNCzOH; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 07:35:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CAA128CF04; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 07:35:49 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8455B28CF04 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 07:35:48 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id j9iUgM3f1PvU for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 07:35:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from el-out-1112.google.com (el-out-1112.google.com [209.85.162.178]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED70828CE40 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 07:35:46 -0800 (PST) Received: by el-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id j27so567001elf.25 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 07:37:08 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.142.127.10 with SMTP id z10mr1256962wfc.122.1203003427663; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 07:37:07 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.143.174.8 with HTTP; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 07:37:07 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <30b660a20802140737u7065d940jf231b4c3d4f16650@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 07:37:07 -0800 From: "Mark Davis" To: "Randy Presuhn" In-Reply-To: <016301c86e86$4dd2e900$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <30b660a20802131101h3f58fa4bh6730cc706ad2d9d9@mail.gmail.com> <016301c86e86$4dd2e900$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 6076a4e54f9d0c26 Cc: LTRU Working Group Subject: Re: [Ltru] Proposed edit MD12 (davis) X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1764522712==" Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org --===============1764522712== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_2489_33207919.1203003427635" ------=_Part_2489_33207919.1203003427635 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I don't view this as a technical change; it doesn't change the registry format; it doesn't change what qualifies as language tags; it just makes it easier for implementers to see what the intended result is. If we changed the SHOULD to should, would that make it easier? Mark On Wed, Feb 13, 2008 at 1:20 PM, Randy Presuhn wrote: > Hi - > > As co-chair, I'm splitting this comment into a separate thread > since in my judgement it could be understood to be a technical > change. > > Randy > > > From: "Mark Davis" > > To: "LTRU Working Group" > > Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 11:01 AM > > Subject: [Ltru] Proposed edits (davis) > ... > > MD12 > > The 'Preferred-Value' field in records of type "grandfathered" and > > "redundant" contains whole language tags that are strongly > > RECOMMENDED for use in place of the record's value. In many cases, > > the mappings were created by deprecation of the tags during the > > period before this document was adopted. For example, the tag "no- > > nyn" was deprecated in favor of the ISO 639-1-defined language code > > 'nn'. > > [ADD] > > If the value of a Preferred-Value is not canonical (such as when it > is > > a tag or contains a subtag that itself has a Preferred-Value), then > > a Comment > > SHOULD be added to the record to that effect. For example: > > > > Preferred-Value: zh-hakka > > Comment: The canonical form of "zh-hakka" is "hak". > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ltru mailing list > Ltru@ietf.org > http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru > -- Mark ------=_Part_2489_33207919.1203003427635 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I don't view this as a technical change; it doesn't change the registry format; it doesn't change what qualifies as language tags; it just makes it easier for implementers to see what the intended result is.

If we changed the SHOULD to should, would that make it easier?

Mark

On Wed, Feb 13, 2008 at 1:20 PM, Randy Presuhn <randy_presuhn@mindspring.com> wrote:
Hi -

As co-chair, I'm splitting this comment into a separate thread
since in my judgement it could be understood to be a technical
change.

Randy

> From: "Mark Davis" <mark.davis@icu-project.org>
> To: "LTRU Working Group" <ltru@ietf.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 11:01 AM
> Subject: [Ltru] Proposed edits (davis)
...
> MD12
>    The 'Preferred-Value' field in records of type "grandfathered" and
>    "redundant" contains whole language tags that are strongly
>    RECOMMENDED for use in place of the record's value.  In many cases,
>    the mappings were created by deprecation of the tags during the
>    period before this document was adopted.  For example, the tag "no-
>    nyn" was deprecated in favor of the ISO 639-1-defined language code
>    'nn'.
> [ADD]
>    If the value of a Preferred-Value is not canonical (such as when it is
>    a tag or contains a subtag that itself has a Preferred-Value), then
> a Comment
>    SHOULD be added to the record to that effect. For example:
>
>    Preferred-Value: zh-hakka
>    Comment: The canonical form of "zh-hakka" is "hak".
>


_______________________________________________
Ltru mailing list
Ltru@ietf.org
http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru



--
Mark ------=_Part_2489_33207919.1203003427635-- --===============1764522712== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru --===============1764522712==-- From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Thu Feb 14 07:36:26 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4922B28CF59; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 07:36:26 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.806 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.806 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.379, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, HTML_MESSAGE=1, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nziZMYa0IO0o; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 07:36:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6828828CEE7; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 07:36:25 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13A9A28CEE7 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 07:36:25 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WDUDgO76qOkk for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 07:36:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from wf-out-1314.google.com (wf-out-1314.google.com [209.85.200.173]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B05A28CE40 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 07:36:24 -0800 (PST) Received: by wf-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 25so56433wfa.31 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 07:37:46 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.142.144.16 with SMTP id r16mr1264233wfd.97.1203003465823; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 07:37:45 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.143.174.8 with HTTP; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 07:37:45 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <30b660a20802140737g78160b7ej3f3f9493ae8fd95b@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 07:37:45 -0800 From: "Mark Davis" To: "Randy Presuhn" In-Reply-To: <014701c86e84$83848e20$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <30b660a20802131101h3f58fa4bh6730cc706ad2d9d9@mail.gmail.com> <014701c86e84$83848e20$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 4d61bdc3ee6e4f6f Cc: LTRU Working Group Subject: Re: [Ltru] Proposed edits (davis) MD4 X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0701583547==" Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org --===============0701583547== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_2498_7666992.1203003465566" ------=_Part_2498_7666992.1203003465566 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline It is a valid example. The private use subtags (x-...) can be used to add arbitrary information to a language tag. We do not limit what that information is, and we couldn't in any event. My only thought here was to use an actual, documented example of the use of private use subtags, rather than an artificial example. Mark On Feb 13, 2008 1:07 PM, Randy Presuhn wrote: > Hi - > > > From: "Mark Davis" > > To: "LTRU Working Group" > > Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 11:01 AM > > Subject: [Ltru] Proposed edits (davis) > ... > > MD4 > > For example: Users who wished to utilize codes from the Ethnologue > > publication of SIL International for language identification might > > agree to exchange tags such as "az-Arab-x-AZE-derbend". This example > > contains two private use subtags. The first is 'AZE' and the second > > is 'derbend'. > > => > > For example: The Unicode Consortium defines a set of private use > > extensions in LDML (Locale Data Markup Language), such as > > en-US-x-ldml-POSIX-k-calendar-islamic-k-colStren-secondar, which > > indicates that en-US is being used, but with the (non-standard) POSIX > > variant is being used, and that formatting of dates should use the > > islamic calendar, with case being ignored in sorted lists. For more > > information, see [LDML]. > > > > [Reason: replace a hypothetical example with a real one.] > ... > > As a technical contributor, I object to the proposed change. The > proposed replacement is not an example of language tagging, > but rather of a locale. > > Randy > > _______________________________________________ > Ltru mailing list > Ltru@ietf.org > http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru > -- Mark ------=_Part_2498_7666992.1203003465566 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline It is a valid example. The private use subtags (x-...) can be used to add arbitrary information to a language tag. We do not limit what that information is, and we couldn't in any event.

My only thought here was to use an actual, documented example of the use of private use subtags, rather than an artificial example.

Mark

On Feb 13, 2008 1:07 PM, Randy Presuhn <randy_presuhn@mindspring.com> wrote:
Hi -

> From: "Mark Davis" <mark.davis@icu-project.org>
> To: "LTRU Working Group" <ltru@ietf.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 11:01 AM
> Subject: [Ltru] Proposed edits (davis)
...
> MD4
>    For example: Users who wished to utilize codes from the Ethnologue
>    publication of SIL International for language identification might
>    agree to exchange tags such as "az-Arab-x-AZE-derbend".  This example
>    contains two private use subtags.  The first is 'AZE' and the second
>    is 'derbend'.
> =>
>    For example: The Unicode Consortium defines a set of private use
> extensions in LDML (Locale Data Markup Language), such as
> en-US-x-ldml-POSIX-k-calendar-islamic-k-colStren-secondar, which
> indicates that en-US is being used, but with the (non-standard) POSIX
> variant is being used, and that formatting of dates should use the
> islamic calendar, with case being ignored in sorted lists. For more
> information, see [LDML].
>
> [Reason: replace a hypothetical example with a real one.]
...

As a technical contributor, I object to the proposed change.  The
proposed replacement is not an example of language tagging,
but rather of a locale.

Randy

_______________________________________________
Ltru mailing list
Ltru@ietf.org
http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru



--
Mark ------=_Part_2498_7666992.1203003465566-- --===============0701583547== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru --===============0701583547==-- From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Thu Feb 14 07:38:30 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5DDB28CF0A; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 07:38:30 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.842 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.842 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.344, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, HTML_MESSAGE=1, MIME_HTML_MOSTLY=0.001, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TlRKx5kpZo4s; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 07:38:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0E4F28CEAD; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 07:38:28 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9B4428CEAD for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 07:38:27 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XD3wURVJ6CSb for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 07:38:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from rn-out-0910.google.com (rn-out-0910.google.com [64.233.170.190]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4765528CF0A for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 07:38:24 -0800 (PST) Received: by rn-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id a46so695213rne.10 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 07:39:46 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.142.232.20 with SMTP id e20mr1277893wfh.59.1203003584308; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 07:39:44 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.143.174.8 with HTTP; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 07:39:43 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <30b660a20802140739t5a67a6eeje8292111831b4158@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 07:39:43 -0800 From: "Mark Davis" To: "LTRU Working Group" In-Reply-To: <30b660a20802131101h3f58fa4bh6730cc706ad2d9d9@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <30b660a20802131101h3f58fa4bh6730cc706ad2d9d9@mail.gmail.com> X-Google-Sender-Auth: af810675507e48dd Subject: Re: [Ltru] Proposed edits (davis) X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0907629824==" Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org --===============0907629824== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_2518_61428.1203003584289" ------=_Part_2518_61428.1203003584289 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Other than the items that Randy separated out with separate subjects, does anyone object to the other items? Should I split them also into separate subjects? Mark On Wed, Feb 13, 2008 at 11:01 AM, Mark Davis wrote: > I went through the document a final time. It is in very good shape, > thanks to the many contributions on this list. > > > I do have the following suggested edits, numbered for reference. My > notes are in [...] > > Mark > > ----- > > MD1 > values are not recognized. Thus, a parser need not have an up-to- > date copy (or any copy at all) of the subtag registry to perform most > searching and matching operations. > => > values are not recognized. Thus, a parser need not have an up-to- > date copy (or any copy at all) of the subtag registry to perform common > searching and matching operations. > > [most => common] > > --------- > MD2 > > language = (2*3ALPHA) ; shortest ISO 639 code > / 4ALPHA ; reserved for future use > / 5*8ALPHA ; registered language subtag > => > language = (2*3ALPHA) ; shortest ISO 639 code > / 4ALPHA ; reserved for possible future > use > / 5*8ALPHA ; registered language subtag > > [insert 'possible', matching description below.] > > ----- > MD3 > appropriate) in forming a language tag with the variant. That is, > each of the subtags in the prefix SHOULD appear before the variant. > For example, the subtag 'nedis' has a Prefix of "sl", making it > => > appropriate) in forming a language tag with the variant. That is, > each of the subtags in the prefix SHOULD appear, in order, before > the variant. > For example, the subtag 'nedis' has a Prefix of "sl", making it > > [add 'in order'] > > ------ > MD4 > For example: Users who wished to utilize codes from the Ethnologue > publication of SIL International for language identification might > agree to exchange tags such as "az-Arab-x-AZE-derbend". This example > contains two private use subtags. The first is 'AZE' and the second > is 'derbend'. > => > For example: The Unicode Consortium defines a set of private use > extensions in LDML (Locale Data Markup Language), such as > en-US-x-ldml-POSIX-k-calendar-islamic-k-colStren-secondar, which > indicates that en-US is being used, but with the (non-standard) POSIX > variant is being used, and that formatting of dates should use the > islamic calendar, with case being ignored in sorted lists. For more > information, see [LDML]. > > [Reason: replace a hypothetical example with a real one.] > > ----- > MD5 > to validate the tag. A more-recent copy of the registry might > => > to validate the tag. A more recent copy of the registry might > [typo] > > ----- > MD6 > The first record in the registry is a "File-Date" record. This > record contains the single field whose field-name is "File-Date" (see > Figure 4). The field-body of this record contains the last > modification date of this copy of the registry, making it possible to > compare different versions of the registry. The registry on the IANA > website is the most current. Versions with an older date than that > one are not up-to-date. > > File-Date: 2004-06-28 > %% > => > The first record in the registry is a "File-Date" record. This > record contains a required first field whose field-name is "File-Date" > (see > Figure 4). The field-body of File-Date contains the last > modification date of this copy of the registry, making it possible to > compare different versions of the registry. The registry on the IANA > website is the most current. Versions with an older date than that > one are not up-to-date. > > Subsequent fields in the File-Date record are optional Comment fields. > Comments contains additional information about the registry, as > deemed appropriate for understanding the current state of the registry. > > For example: > > File-Date: 2009-09-10 > Comment: Updated on 2009-09-10 to add new codes from ISO 639-3. > Comment: Updated on 2009-06-14 to add new codes from ISO 3166. > Comment: Updated on 2008-07-12 to in accordance with RFC XXX (4646bis). > %% > > ----- > MD7 > variant 'nedis' is 'sl', meaning that the tags "sl-nedis" and > "sl-IT-nedis" might be appropriate while the tag "is-nedis" is > not. > => > variant 'nedis' is 'sl', meaning that the tags "sl-nedis" and > "sl-IT-nedis" are appropriate while the tag "is-nedis" is > not. > [consistence mood] > > ----- > MD8 > replace the content of the source standard itself. The descriptions > are not intended to be the localized English names for the subtags. > Localization or translation of language tag and subtag descriptions > is out of scope of this document. > => > replace the content of the source standard itself. The descriptions > are not intended to be the localized English names for the subtags. > Localization or translation of language tag and subtag descriptions > is out of scope of this document. > > Descriptions should contain all and only that information necessary > to distinguish one subtag from others that it might be confused with. > They are not intended to provide general background information, > nor to provide all possible alternate names or designations. > > [add more guidance on scope of descriptions] > > ----- > MD9 > The field 'Comments' conveys additional information about the record > and MAY appear more than once per record. The field-body MAY include > => > The field 'Comments' conveys additional information about the record > as needed for clarity: it is not intended to provide general background > information. > > It MAY appear more than once per record. The field-body MAY include > > [add more guidance on scope of comments] > > ----- > MD10 > To ensure consistent backward compatibility, this document contains > several provisions to account for potential instability in the > standards used to define the subtags that make up language tags. > These provisions mean that no language tag created under the rules in > this document will become invalid. > => > To ensure consistent backward compatibility, this document contains > several provisions to account for potential instability in the > standards used to define the subtags that make up language tags. > These provisions mean that no language tag created under the rules in > this document will become invalid, nor will that language tag have a > narrower scope in the future (it may have a broader scope). > > [clarify broadening, relating to use elsewhere] > > ----- > MD11 > 2. Subtags of type 'Region' that have a Preferred-Value mapping in > the IANA registry (see Section 3.1) SHOULD be replaced with their > mapped value. Note: In rare cases, the mapped value will also > have a Preferred-Value. > > 3. Redundant or grandfathered tags that have a Preferred-Value > mapping in the IANA registry (see Section 3.1) MUST be replaced > with their mapped value. These items either are deprecated > mappings created before the adoption of this document (such as > the mapping of "no-nyn" to "nn" or "i-klingon" to "tlh") or are > the result of later registrations or additions to this document > (for example, "zh-hakka" was deprecated in favor of the ISO 639-3 > code 'hak' when this document was adopted). > > 4. Other subtags that have a Preferred-Value mapping in the IANA > registry (see Section 3.1) MUST be replaced with their mapped > value. These items consist entirely of clerical corrections to > ISO 639-1 in which the deprecated subtags have been maintained > for compatibility purposes. > => > 2. Subtags of type 'Region' that have a Preferred-Value mapping in > the IANA registry (see Section 3.1) are recursively replaced with > their > mapped value. Note: In rare cases, the mapped value will also > have a Preferred-Value. > > 3. Redundant or grandfathered tags that have a Preferred-Value > mapping in the IANA registry (see Section 3.1) are recursively > replaced > with their mapped value. These items either are deprecated > mappings created before the adoption of this document (such as > the mapping of "no-nyn" to "nn" or "i-klingon" to "tlh") or are > the result of later registrations or additions to this document > (for example, "zh-hakka" was deprecated in favor of the ISO 639-3 > code 'hak' when this document was adopted). > > 4. Other subtags that have a Preferred-Value mapping in the IANA > registry (see Section 3.1) are recursively replaced with their > mapped > value. These items consist entirely of clerical corrections to > ISO 639-1 in which the deprecated subtags have been maintained > for compatibility purposes. > [We are defining 'canonical order'. MUST and SHOULD are inappropriate > in a definition -- and were inconsistently used, since #1 and #5 don't > use them. Also, we have to have recursive replacement of tags in order > to get an idempotent result!] > > ----- > MD12 > The 'Preferred-Value' field in records of type "grandfathered" and > "redundant" contains whole language tags that are strongly > RECOMMENDED for use in place of the record's value. In many cases, > the mappings were created by deprecation of the tags during the > period before this document was adopted. For example, the tag "no- > nyn" was deprecated in favor of the ISO 639-1-defined language code > 'nn'. > [ADD] > If the value of a Preferred-Value is not canonical (such as when it is > a tag or contains a subtag that itself has a Preferred-Value), then > a Comment > SHOULD be added to the record to that effect. For example: > > Preferred-Value: zh-hakka > Comment: The canonical form of "zh-hakka" is "hak". > > ----- > [MD13] > The relationship between the tag and the information it identifies is > defined by the context in which the tag appears. Accordingly, this > section gives only possible examples of its usage. > [add at bottom of list] > o Language tags form the basis for most implementations of locale > identifiers. For example, see the Unicode Locales project [CLDR]. > > -- > Mark > -- Mark ------=_Part_2518_61428.1203003584289 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Other than the items that Randy separated out with separate subjects, does anyone object to the other items?

Should I split them also into separate subjects?

Mark

On Wed, Feb 13, 2008 at 11:01 AM, Mark Davis <mark.davis@icu-project.org> wrote:
I went through the document a final time. It is in very good shape,
thanks to the many contributions on this list.


I do have the following suggested edits, numbered for reference. My
notes are in [...]

Mark

-----

MD1
  values are not recognized.  Thus, a parser need not have an up-to-
  date copy (or any copy at all) of the subtag registry to perform most
  searching and matching operations.
=>
  values are not recognized.  Thus, a parser need not have an up-to-
  date copy (or any copy at all) of the subtag registry to perform common
  searching and matching operations.

[most => common]

---------
MD2

  language      = (2*3ALPHA) ; shortest ISO 639 code
                / 4ALPHA                 ; reserved for future use
                / 5*8ALPHA               ; registered language subtag
=>
  language      = (2*3ALPHA) ; shortest ISO 639 code
                / 4ALPHA                 ; reserved for possible future use
                / 5*8ALPHA               ; registered language subtag

[insert 'possible', matching description below.]

-----
MD3
  appropriate) in forming a language tag with the variant.  That is,
  each of the subtags in the prefix SHOULD appear before the variant.
  For example, the subtag 'nedis' has a Prefix of "sl", making it
=>
  appropriate) in forming a language tag with the variant.  That is,
  each of the subtags in the prefix SHOULD appear, in order, before
the variant.
  For example, the subtag 'nedis' has a Prefix of "sl", making it

[add 'in order']

------
MD4
  For example: Users who wished to utilize codes from the Ethnologue
  publication of SIL International for language identification might
  agree to exchange tags such as "az-Arab-x-AZE-derbend".  This example
  contains two private use subtags.  The first is 'AZE' and the second
  is 'derbend'.
=>
  For example: The Unicode Consortium defines a set of private use
extensions in LDML (Locale Data Markup Language), such as
en-US-x-ldml-POSIX-k-calendar-islamic-k-colStren-secondar, which
indicates that en-US is being used, but with the (non-standard) POSIX
variant is being used, and that formatting of dates should use the
islamic calendar, with case being ignored in sorted lists. For more
information, see [LDML].

[Reason: replace a hypothetical example with a real one.]

-----
MD5
  to validate the tag.  A more-recent copy of the registry might
=>
  to validate the tag.  A more recent copy of the registry might
[typo]

-----
MD6
  The first record in the registry is a "File-Date" record.  This
  record contains the single field whose field-name is "File-Date" (see
  Figure 4).  The field-body of this record contains the last
  modification date of this copy of the registry, making it possible to
  compare different versions of the registry.  The registry on the IANA
  website is the most current.  Versions with an older date than that
  one are not up-to-date.

  File-Date: 2004-06-28
  %%
=>
  The first record in the registry is a "File-Date" record.  This
  record contains a required first field whose field-name is "File-Date" (see
  Figure 4).  The field-body of File-Date contains the last
  modification date of this copy of the registry, making it possible to
  compare different versions of the registry.  The registry on the IANA
  website is the most current.  Versions with an older date than that
  one are not up-to-date.

 Subsequent fields in the File-Date record are optional Comment fields.
 Comments contains additional information about the registry, as
 deemed appropriate for understanding the current state of the registry.

 For example:

  File-Date: 2009-09-10
  Comment: Updated on 2009-09-10 to add new codes from ISO 639-3.
  Comment: Updated on 2009-06-14 to add new codes from ISO 3166.
  Comment: Updated on 2008-07-12 to in accordance with RFC XXX (4646bis).
  %%

-----
MD7
        variant 'nedis' is 'sl', meaning that the tags "sl-nedis" and
        "sl-IT-nedis" might be appropriate while the tag "is-nedis" is
        not.
=>
        variant 'nedis' is 'sl', meaning that the tags "sl-nedis" and
        "sl-IT-nedis" are appropriate while the tag "is-nedis" is
        not.
[consistence mood]

-----
MD8
  replace the content of the source standard itself.  The descriptions
  are not intended to be the localized English names for the subtags.
  Localization or translation of language tag and subtag descriptions
  is out of scope of this document.
=>
  replace the content of the source standard itself.  The descriptions
  are not intended to be the localized English names for the subtags.
  Localization or translation of language tag and subtag descriptions
  is out of scope of this document.

  Descriptions should contain all and only that information necessary
  to distinguish one subtag from others that it might be confused with.
  They are not intended to provide general background information,
  nor to provide all possible alternate names or designations.

[add more guidance on scope of descriptions]

-----
MD9
  The field 'Comments' conveys additional information about the record
  and MAY appear more than once per record.  The field-body MAY include
=>
  The field 'Comments' conveys additional information about the record
  as needed for clarity: it is not intended to provide general background
  information.

  It MAY appear more than once per record. The field-body MAY include

[add more guidance on scope of comments]

-----
MD10
  To ensure consistent backward compatibility, this document contains
  several provisions to account for potential instability in the
  standards used to define the subtags that make up language tags.
  These provisions mean that no language tag created under the rules in
  this document will become invalid.
=>
  To ensure consistent backward compatibility, this document contains
  several provisions to account for potential instability in the
  standards used to define the subtags that make up language tags.
  These provisions mean that no language tag created under the rules in
  this document will become invalid, nor will that language tag have a
  narrower scope in the future (it may have a broader scope).

[clarify broadening, relating to use elsewhere]

-----
MD11
  2.  Subtags of type 'Region' that have a Preferred-Value mapping in
      the IANA registry (see Section 3.1) SHOULD be replaced with their
      mapped value.  Note: In rare cases, the mapped value will also
      have a Preferred-Value.

  3.  Redundant or grandfathered tags that have a Preferred-Value
      mapping in the IANA registry (see Section 3.1) MUST be replaced
      with their mapped value.  These items either are deprecated
      mappings created before the adoption of this document (such as
      the mapping of "no-nyn" to "nn" or "i-klingon" to "tlh") or are
      the result of later registrations or additions to this document
      (for example, "zh-hakka" was deprecated in favor of the ISO 639-3
      code 'hak' when this document was adopted).

  4.  Other subtags that have a Preferred-Value mapping in the IANA
      registry (see Section 3.1) MUST be replaced with their mapped
      value.  These items consist entirely of clerical corrections to
      ISO 639-1 in which the deprecated subtags have been maintained
      for compatibility purposes.
=>
  2.  Subtags of type 'Region' that have a Preferred-Value mapping in
      the IANA registry (see Section 3.1) are recursively replaced with their
      mapped value.  Note: In rare cases, the mapped value will also
      have a Preferred-Value.

  3.  Redundant or grandfathered tags that have a Preferred-Value
      mapping in the IANA registry (see Section 3.1) are recursively replaced
      with their mapped value.  These items either are deprecated
      mappings created before the adoption of this document (such as
      the mapping of "no-nyn" to "nn" or "i-klingon" to "tlh") or are
      the result of later registrations or additions to this document
      (for example, "zh-hakka" was deprecated in favor of the ISO 639-3
      code 'hak' when this document was adopted).

  4.  Other subtags that have a Preferred-Value mapping in the IANA
      registry (see Section 3.1) are recursively replaced with their mapped
      value.  These items consist entirely of clerical corrections to
      ISO 639-1 in which the deprecated subtags have been maintained
      for compatibility purposes.
[We are defining 'canonical order'. MUST and SHOULD are inappropriate
in a definition -- and were inconsistently used, since #1 and #5 don't
use them. Also, we have to have recursive replacement of tags in order
to get an idempotent result!]

-----
MD12
  The 'Preferred-Value' field in records of type "grandfathered" and
  "redundant" contains whole language tags that are strongly
  RECOMMENDED for use in place of the record's value.  In many cases,
  the mappings were created by deprecation of the tags during the
  period before this document was adopted.  For example, the tag "no-
  nyn" was deprecated in favor of the ISO 639-1-defined language code
  'nn'.
[ADD]
  If the value of a Preferred-Value is not canonical (such as when it is
  a tag or contains a subtag that itself has a Preferred-Value), then
a Comment
  SHOULD be added to the record to that effect. For example:

  Preferred-Value: zh-hakka
  Comment: The canonical form of "zh-hakka" is "hak".

-----
[MD13]
  The relationship between the tag and the information it identifies is
  defined by the context in which the tag appears.  Accordingly, this
  section gives only possible examples of its usage.
[add at bottom of list]
  o  Language tags form the basis for most implementations of locale
      identifiers. For example, see the Unicode Locales project [CLDR].

--
Mark



--
Mark ------=_Part_2518_61428.1203003584289-- --===============0907629824== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru --===============0907629824==-- From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Thu Feb 14 09:00:58 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B3BE28D0CE; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 09:00:58 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.503 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.503 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.934, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id haj4wc5Q-3lp; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 09:00:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9732728D069; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 09:00:56 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07A5E28CFD4 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 09:00:55 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6B6OXaasK7hQ for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 09:00:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.bortzmeyer.org (virtual3.netaktiv.com [80.67.170.53]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CA9328D069 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 09:00:51 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail.bortzmeyer.org (Postfix, from userid 10) id 4A73E240827; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 18:02:09 +0100 (CET) Received: by mail.sources.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 7584A1123B; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 17:58:53 +0100 (CET) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 17:58:53 +0100 From: Stephane Bortzmeyer To: LTRU Working Group Message-ID: <20080214165853.GA10760@sources.org> References: <002601c86ab4$6f974020$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> <20080213084528.GA13771@nic.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="DocE+STaALJfprDB" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20080213084528.GA13771@nic.fr> X-Transport: UUCP rules X-Operating-System: Debian GNU/Linux 3.1 User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i Subject: Re: [Ltru] Some typos (Was: Begin LTRU WG last call on 4646bis and 4645bis X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org --DocE+STaALJfprDB Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline On Wed, Feb 13, 2008 at 09:45:28AM +0100, Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote a message of 44 lines which said: > 1) The most important: "extended language subtags" or similar > expressions appear in a lot of places despite extlang removal. Do we > agree they should all be suppressed? (See for instance "Codes > assigned by ISO 639-2 that do not conflict with existing > three-letter primary or extended language subtags are entered into > the IANA registry" or "Extension subtags MUST follow all language, > extended language, script, region, and variant subtag" or, worse, > "Extended language subtags MUST include exactly one 'Prefix' > field".) Since I believe that this issue is the least controversial, here is a diff against -11 that implements it. Sorry, I had to delete an entire example (zh-gan) which worked only for extlangs.) --DocE+STaALJfprDB Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="draft-ietf-ltru-4646bis-11-suppress-extlang.diff" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable --- draft-ietf-ltru-4646bis-11.xml.orig 2008-02-14 16:13:21.723195266 +0100 +++ draft-ietf-ltru-4646bis-11.xml 2008-02-14 17:52:56.796669835 +0100 @@ -410,7 +410,7 @@ Each singleton MUST be followed by at least one extension subta= g.=0D For example, the tag "tlh-a-b-foo" is invalid because the first si= ngleton=0D 'a' is followed immediately by another singleton 'b'.=0D - Extension subtags MUST follow all language, extended language, = script,=0D + Extension subtags MUST follow all language, script,=0D region, and variant subtags in a tag.=0D All subtags following the singleton and before another singleto= n=0D are part of the extension. Example: In the tag "fr-a-Latn", the su= btag=0D @@ -429,7 +429,7 @@ =0D Private use subtags are separated from the other subtags =0D defined in this document by the reserved single-character subtag '= x'.Private use subtags MUST conform to the format and content constr= aints defined in the ABNF for all subtags.=0D - Private use subtags MUST follow all language, extended language= , =0D + Private use subtags MUST follow all language, =0D script, region, variant, and extension subtags in the tag. Another= =0D way of saying this is that all subtags following the singleton 'x'= =0D MUST be considered private use. Example: The subtag 'US' in the =0D @@ -449,7 +449,7 @@ =0D =0D
=0D -Implementations sometimes need to describe their capabilities with rega= rd to the rules and practices described in this document. Tags can be check= ed or verified in a number of ways, but two particular classes of tag confo= rmance are formally defined here.A tag is considered "well-formed" i= f it conforms to the ABNF. Note that irregul= ar grandfathered tags are now listed in the 'irregular' production. = A tag is considered "valid" if it well-formed and it also satisfies these c= onditions:The tag is either a grandfathered tag,= or all of its language, extended language, script, region, and variant sub= tags appear in the IANA language subtag registry as of the particular regis= try date.There are no duplicate singleton (extension) subtags and no= duplicate variant subtags.For each subtag that has a 'Prefix' field= in the registry, the Prefix matches the language tag using Extended Filtering. That is, each subtag in the Prefix is = present in the tag and in the same order. Furthermore, all of the Prefix's = subtags MUST appear before the subtag. For example, the Prefix "zh-TW" matc= hes the tag "zh-Hant-TW".=0D +Implementations sometimes need to describe their capabilities with rega= rd to the rules and practices described in this document. Tags can be check= ed or verified in a number of ways, but two particular classes of tag confo= rmance are formally defined here.A tag is considered "well-formed" i= f it conforms to the ABNF. Note that irregul= ar grandfathered tags are now listed in the 'irregular' production. = A tag is considered "valid" if it well-formed and it also satisfies these c= onditions:The tag is either a grandfathered tag,= or all of its language, script, region, and variant subtags appear in the = IANA language subtag registry as of the particular registry date.The= re are no duplicate singleton (extension) subtags and no duplicate variant = subtags.For each subtag that has a 'Prefix' field in the registry, t= he Prefix matches the language tag using Extended = Filtering. That is, each subtag in the Prefix is present in the tag = and in the same order. Furthermore, all of the Prefix's subtags MUST appear= before the subtag. For example, the Prefix "zh-TW" matches the tag "zh-Han= t-TW".=0D Note that a tag's validity depends on the date of the registry used to = validate the tag. A more-recent copy of the registry might contain a subtag= that an older version does not.A tag is considered "valid" for a gi= ven extension (as of a particular versio= n, revision, and date) if it meets the criteria for "valid" above and also = satisfies this condition:Each subtag used in the extension part of= the tag is valid according to the extension. =0D =0D =0D @@ -567,7 +567,7 @@ Values in the field 'Prefix' in records of type 'variant' MAY be modifi= ed, so long as the modifications broaden the set of prefixes. That is, a pr= efix MAY be replaced by one of its own prefixes. For example, the prefix "e= n-US" could be replaced by "en", but not by the prefixes "en-Latn", "fr", o= r "en-US-boont". If one of those prefixes were needed, a new Prefix SHOULD = be registered.=0D Values in the field 'Prefix' MUST NOT be removed.=0D The field 'Comments' MAY be added, changed, modified, or removed via th= e registration process or any of the processes or considerations described = in this section.The field 'Suppress-Script' MAY be added or removed = via the registration process.The field 'Macrolanguage' MAY be added = or removed via the registration process, but only in response to changes ma= de by ISO 639. The Macrolanguage field appears whenever a language has a co= rresponding Macrolanguage in ISO 639. That is, the macrolanguage fields in = the registry exactly match those of ISO 639. No other macrolanguage mapping= s will be considered for registration. =0D -Codes assigned by ISO 639-1 that do not conflict with existing two-lett= er primary language subtags and which have no corresponding three-letter pr= imary or extended language subtags defined in the registry are entered into= the IANA registry as new records of type 'language'.Codes assigned = by ISO 639-2 that do not conflict with existing three-letter primary or ext= ended language subtags are entered into the IANA registry as new records of= type 'language'.Codes assigned by ISO 639-3 that do not conflict wi= th existing three-letter primary language subtags are entered into the IANA= registry as new primary language records. Codes assigned by ISO 15= 924 and ISO 3166 that do not conflict with existing subtags of the associat= ed type and whose meaning is not the same as an existing subtag of the same= type are entered into the IANA registry as new records.Codes assign= ed by ISO 639, ISO 15924, or ISO 3166 that are withdrawn by their respectiv= e maintenance or registration authority remain valid in language tags. A 'D= eprecated' field containing the date of withdrawal MUST be added to the rec= ord. If a new record of the same type is added that represents a replacemen= t value, then a 'Preferred-Value' field MAY also be added. The registration= process MAY be used to add comments about the withdrawal of the code by th= e respective standard. =0D +Codes assigned by ISO 639-1 that do not conflict with existing two-lett= er primary language subtags and which have no corresponding three-letter pr= imary subtag defined in the registry are entered into the IANA registry as = new records of type 'language'.Codes assigned by ISO 639-2 that do n= ot conflict with existing three-letter primary subtag are entered into the = IANA registry as new records of type 'language'.Codes assigned by IS= O 639-3 that do not conflict with existing three-letter primary language su= btags are entered into the IANA registry as new primary language records. = Codes assigned by ISO 15924 and ISO 3166 that do not conflict with e= xisting subtags of the associated type and whose meaning is not the same as= an existing subtag of the same type are entered into the IANA registry as = new records.Codes assigned by ISO 639, ISO 15924, or ISO 3166 that a= re withdrawn by their respective maintenance or registration authority rema= in valid in language tags. A 'Deprecated' field containing the date of with= drawal MUST be added to the record. If a new record of the same type is add= ed that represents a replacement value, then a 'Preferred-Value' field MAY = also be added. The registration process MAY be used to add comments about t= he withdrawal of the code by the respective standard. =0D The region code 'TL' was a= ssigned to the country 'Timor-Leste', replacing the code 'TP' (which was as= signed to 'East Timor' when it was under administration by Portugal). The s= ubtag 'TP' remains valid in language tags, but its record contains the a 'P= referred-Value' of 'TL' and its field 'Deprecated' contains the date the ne= w code was assigned ('2004-07-06').Codes assigned by ISO = 639, ISO 15924, or ISO 3166 that conflict with existing subtags of the asso= ciated type, including subtags that are deprecated, MUST NOT be entered int= o the registry. The following additional considerations apply to subtag val= ues that are reassigned:=0D =0D =0D @@ -600,10 +600,7 @@ then the field 'Type' in that record is changed from 'grandfathered'= to 'redundant'. Note that this =0D will not affect=0D language tags that match the grandfathered tag, since these tags wil= l now=0D - match valid generative subtag sequences. For example, this document = caused the ISO 639-3 code 'gan', used=0D - in the redundant tag "zh-gan", to be registered as an extended langu= age =0D - subtag. The formerly-grandfathered tag "zh-gan" became a redundant t= ag as a result (but=0D - existing content or implementations that use "zh-gan" remain valid).= =0D + match valid generative subtag sequences. =0D Note: The redundant and grandfathered entries together are t= he complete list of tags registered under .= The redundant tags are those that can now be formed using the subtags defi= ned in the registry together with the rules of . The grandfathered entries include those that can never be legal unde= r those same provisions plus those tags that contain subtags not yet regist= ered or, perhaps, inappropriate for registration. The set of redunda= nt and grandfathered tags is permanent and stable: new entries in this sect= ion MUST NOT be added and existing entries MUST NOT be removed. Records of = type 'grandfathered' MAY have their type converted to 'redundant'; see item= 12 in for more information. The decis= ion-making process about which tags were initially grandfathered and which = were made redundant is described in .RFC 3066 tags that were deprecated prior to the adoption of are part of the list of grandfathered tags, and their = component subtags were not included as registered variants (although they r= emain eligible for registration). For example, the tag "art-lojban" was dep= recated in favor of the language subtag 'jbo'.
=0D The procedure given here MUST be used by anyone who wants to use a subt= ag not currently in the IANA Language Subtag Registry.=0D Only subtags of type 'language' and 'variant' will be considered for in= dependent =0D @@ -647,7 +644,7 @@ Some fields in both the registration form as well as the registry recor= d itself permit the use of non-ASCII characters. Registration requests SHOU= LD use the UTF-8 encoding for consistency and clarity. However, since some = mail clients do not support this encoding, other encodings MAY be used for = the registration request. The Language Subtag Reviewer is responsible for e= nsuring that the proper Unicode characters appear in both the archived requ= est form and the registry record. In the case of a transcription or encodin= g error by IANA, the Language Subtag Reviewer will request that the registr= y be repaired, providing any necessary information to assist IANA.Va= riant subtags are usually registered for use with a particular range of lan= guage tags. For example, the subtag 'rozaj' is =0D intended for use with language tags that start with the primary language s= ubtag "sl", since =0D Resian is a dialect of Slovenian. Thus, the subtag 'rozaj' would be approp= riate in tags such as "sl-Latn-rozaj" or=0D -"sl-IT-rozaj". This information is stored in the 'Prefix' field in the reg= istry. Variant registration requests SHOULD include at least one 'Prefix' f= ield in the registration form.Extended language subtags MUST include= exactly one 'Prefix' field.=0D +"sl-IT-rozaj". This information is stored in the 'Prefix' field in the reg= istry. Variant registration requests SHOULD include at least one 'Prefix' f= ield in the registration form.=0D =0D The 'Prefix' field for a given registered subtag exists =0D in the IANA registry as a guide to usage. Additional prefixes MAY be added= by filing an additional registration form. In that form, the "Any other =0D @@ -903,7 +900,7 @@
Th= ere is no defined upper limit on the size of language tags. While historica= lly most language tags have consisted of language and region subtags with a= combined total length of up to six characters, larger tags have always bee= n both possible and actually appeared in use. Neither the language t= ag syntax nor other requirements in this document impose a fixed upper limi= t on the number of subtags in a language tag (and thus an upper bound on th= e size of a tag). The language tag syntax suggests that, depending on the s= pecific language, more subtags (and thus a longer tag) are sometimes necess= ary to completely identify the language for certain applications; thus, it = is possible to envision long or complex subtag sequences.
Some app= lications and protocols are forced to allocate fixed buffer sizes or otherw= ise limit the length of a language tag. A conformant implementation or spec= ification MAY refuse to support the storage of =0D language tags=0D that exceed a specified length. Any such limitation SHOULD be clearly docu= mented, and such documentation SHOULD include what happens to longer tags (= for example, whether an error value is generated or the language tag is tru= ncated). A protocol that allows tags to be truncated at an arbitrary limit,= without giving any indication of what that limit is, has the potential for= causing harm by changing the meaning of tags in substantial ways. I= n practice, most language tags do not require more than a few subtags and w= ill not approach reasonably sized buffer limitations; see .Some specifications or protocols have limits on tag l= ength but do not have a fixed length limitation. For example, has no explicit length limitation: the length availab= le for the language tag is constrained by the length of other header compon= ents (such as the charset's name) coupled with the 76-character limit in . Thus, the "limit" might be 50 or more chara= cters, but it could potentially be quite small.The considerations fo= r assigning a buffer limit are:Implementations SHOULD NOT truncate= language tags unless the meaning of the tag is purposefully being changed,= or unless the tag does not fit into a limited buffer size specified by a p= rotocol for storage or transmission.Implementations SHOULD warn the = user when a tag is truncated since truncation changes the semantic meaning = of the tag.Implementations of protocols or specifications that are s= pace constrained but do not have a fixed limit SHOULD use the longest possi= ble tag in preference to truncation.Protocols or specifications that= specify limited buffer sizes for language tags MUST allow for language tag= s of up to 33 characters.Protocols or specifications that specify li= mited buffer sizes for language tags SHOULD allow for language tags of at l= east=0D -30 characters. Note that RFC 4646 recommen= ded a field size of 42 character because it included the permanently reserv= ed (and unused) 'extlang' production. The current size recommendation does = not include the use of the 'extlang' field. The following= illustration shows how the 30-character recommendation was derived. The co= mbination of language and extended language subtags was chosen for future c= ompatibility. At up to 15 characters, this combination is longer than the l= ongest possible primary language subtag (8 characters):
=0D +30 characters. Note that RFC 4646 recommen= ded a field size of 42 character because it included the permanently reserv= ed (and unused) 'extlang' production. The current size recommendation does = not include the use of the 'extlang' field. The following= illustration shows how the 30-character recommendation was derived. The co= mbination of language subtags was chosen for future compatibility. At up to= 15 characters, this combination is longer than the longest possible primar= y language subtag (8 characters):
=0D language =3D 3 (ISO 639-2; ISO 639-1 requires 2)=0D script =3D 5 (if not suppressed: see Section 4.1)=0D region =3D 4 (UN M.49; ISO 3166 requires 3)=0D --DocE+STaALJfprDB Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru --DocE+STaALJfprDB-- From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Thu Feb 14 09:43:02 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A00B228CB93; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 09:43:02 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.211 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.211 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.774, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, HTML_MESSAGE=1, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TIbiUHD9Srbs; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 09:43:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 706593A68F3; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 09:43:01 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03A5A3A68F3 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 09:43:00 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id U+jfruuMSDiB for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 09:42:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from ch-smtp02.sth.basefarm.net (ch-smtp02.sth.basefarm.net [80.76.149.213]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5ACF03A68A0 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 09:42:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from c83-248-85-137.bredband.comhem.se ([83.248.85.137]:3948 helo=wgbgkka02x) by ch-smtp02.sth.basefarm.net with esmtp (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1JPi87-0004ed-6U for ltru@ietf.org; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 18:44:17 +0100 From: "Kent Karlsson" To: "'LTRU Working Group'" References: <30b660a20802131101h3f58fa4bh6730cc706ad2d9d9@mail.gmail.com><016301c86e86$4dd2e900$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> <30b660a20802140737u7065d940jf231b4c3d4f16650@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 18:44:13 +0100 Message-ID: <012e01c86f31$36ba2a70$8955f853@streamserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 In-Reply-To: <30b660a20802140737u7065d940jf231b4c3d4f16650@mail.gmail.com> Thread-Index: AchvH3i399pFLTlhSWaSUUIQXisj+gADeo7Q X-Originating-IP: 83.248.85.137 X-Scan-Result: No virus found in message 1JPi87-0004ed-6U. X-Scan-Signature: ch-smtp02.sth.basefarm.net 1JPi87-0004ed-6U 3a533e71c1a97a1682200582c36bc5bd Subject: Re: [Ltru] Proposed edit MD12 (davis) X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1232525326==" Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============1232525326== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_012F_01C86F39.987E9270" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_012F_01C86F39.987E9270 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Since the label chosen was "Preferred-Value", rather than something more = neutral, like "Mapto-Value", I think that the value listed should not be a = deprecated value with another preferred value. I.e. I think the transitiveness should be = shorted out when maintaining the registry, rather than by users of the registry. =20 The current text also says: * For fields of type 'language', 'Preferred-Value' contains the primary language subtag that is preferred when forming the language tag. and similarly for the other types. This does in no way imply that there = may be further steps of preferredness, and trying to make it so may result = in inconsistent wording in various places in the text, and will surely = (even if we get all the wording consistent) introduce confusion: "Is not the = preferred value preferred?". =20 Surely it is better to map directly to the true preferred value (if = there is any), and allow, or rather require, that this is maintained both in this bulk = update, and during regular maintenance. I see that as much better than allowing for some comment on that issue in the registry record. =20 /kent k =20 _____ =20 From: ltru-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ltru-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of = Mark Davis Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 4:37 PM To: Randy Presuhn Cc: LTRU Working Group Subject: Re: [Ltru] Proposed edit MD12 (davis) I don't view this as a technical change; it doesn't change the registry = format; it doesn't change what qualifies as language tags; it just makes = it easier for implementers to see what the intended result is. If we changed the SHOULD to should, would that make it easier? Mark On Wed, Feb 13, 2008 at 1:20 PM, Randy Presuhn = wrote: Hi - As co-chair, I'm splitting this comment into a separate thread since in my judgement it could be understood to be a technical change. Randy > From: "Mark Davis" > To: "LTRU Working Group" > Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 11:01 AM > Subject: [Ltru] Proposed edits (davis) ... > MD12 > The 'Preferred-Value' field in records of type "grandfathered" and > "redundant" contains whole language tags that are strongly > RECOMMENDED for use in place of the record's value. In many cases, > the mappings were created by deprecation of the tags during the > period before this document was adopted. For example, the tag "no- > nyn" was deprecated in favor of the ISO 639-1-defined language code > 'nn'. > [ADD] > If the value of a Preferred-Value is not canonical (such as when it = is > a tag or contains a subtag that itself has a Preferred-Value), then > a Comment > SHOULD be added to the record to that effect. For example: > > Preferred-Value: zh-hakka > Comment: The canonical form of "zh-hakka" is "hak". > _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru --=20 Mark=20 ------=_NextPart_000_012F_01C86F39.987E9270 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =EF=BB=BF
Since the label chosen was "Preferred-Value", = rather=20 than something more neutral,
like "Mapto-Value", I think that the value = listed=20 should not be a deprecated value
with another preferred value. I.e. I think = the=20 transitiveness should be shorted out
when maintaining the registry, rather than by = users of=20 the registry.
 
The current text also = says:
      *  For = fields of=20 type 'language', 'Preferred-Value' contains=20 the
         primary language = subtag=20 that is preferred when forming=20 the
         language=20 tag.
and similarly for the other types. This does = in no way=20 imply that there may
be further steps of preferredness, and trying = to make=20 it so may result in
inconsistent wording in various places in the = text, and=20 will surely (even if
we get all the wording consistent) = introduce=20 confusion: "Is not the preferred
value preferred?".
 
Surely it is better to map directly to the = true=20 preferred value (if there is any),
and allow, or rather require, that this is = maintained=20 both in this bulk update,
and during regular maintenance. I see that as = much=20 better than allowing
for some comment on that issue in the = registry=20 record.
 
        = /kent=20 k
 

From: ltru-bounces@ietf.org=20 [mailto:ltru-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Mark = Davis
Sent:=20 Thursday, February 14, 2008 4:37 PM
To: Randy = Presuhn
Cc:=20 LTRU Working Group
Subject: Re: [Ltru] Proposed edit MD12=20 (davis)

I don't view this as a technical change; it doesn't change = the=20 registry format; it doesn't change what qualifies as language tags; it = just=20 makes it easier for implementers to see what the intended result = is.

If=20 we changed the SHOULD to should, would that make it=20 easier?

Mark

On Wed, Feb 13, 2008 at 1:20 PM, Randy = Presuhn <randy_presuhn@mindspring.com= >=20 wrote:
Hi=20 -

As co-chair, I'm splitting this comment into a separate=20 thread
since in my judgement it could be understood to be a=20 technical
change.

Randy

> From: "Mark Davis" = <mark.davis@icu-project.org= >
>=20 To: "LTRU Working Group" <ltru@ietf.org>
> Sent: = Wednesday,=20 February 13, 2008 11:01 AM
> Subject: [Ltru] Proposed edits=20 (davis)
...
> MD12
>    The = 'Preferred-Value' field=20 in records of type "grandfathered" and
>   =  "redundant"=20 contains whole language tags that are strongly
>  =20  RECOMMENDED for use in place of the record's value.  In = many=20 cases,
>    the mappings were created by deprecation = of the=20 tags during the
>    period before this document was = adopted.  For example, the tag "no-
>    nyn" = was=20 deprecated in favor of the ISO 639-1-defined language code
> =  =20  'nn'.
> [ADD]
>    If the value of a=20 Preferred-Value is not canonical (such as when it is
>   =  a=20 tag or contains a subtag that itself has a Preferred-Value), = then
> a=20 Comment
>    SHOULD be added to the record to that = effect.=20 For example:
>
>    Preferred-Value: = zh-hakka
>=20    Comment: The canonical form of "zh-hakka" is=20 = "hak".
>


_______________________________________________=
Ltru=20 mailing list
Ltru@ietf.org
http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru


--
Mark ------=_NextPart_000_012F_01C86F39.987E9270-- --===============1232525326== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru --===============1232525326==-- From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Thu Feb 14 11:11:43 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08A6E3A7086; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 11:11:43 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.842 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.842 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.343, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, HTML_MESSAGE=1, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id q1GSOHSWxkxp; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 11:11:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A31563A6833; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 11:11:41 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA14F3A7076 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 11:11:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZSa99s6SNMd7 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 11:11:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from el-out-1112.google.com (el-out-1112.google.com [209.85.162.183]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D683A3A68BA for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 11:11:34 -0800 (PST) Received: by el-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id j27so660651elf.25 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 11:12:56 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.143.6.1 with SMTP id j1mr1507827wfi.45.1203016375126; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 11:12:55 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.143.174.8 with HTTP; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 11:12:55 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <30b660a20802141112p19fb8f76of6de76447f1fab2@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 11:12:55 -0800 From: "Mark Davis" To: "Kent Karlsson" In-Reply-To: <012e01c86f31$36ba2a70$8955f853@streamserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <30b660a20802131101h3f58fa4bh6730cc706ad2d9d9@mail.gmail.com> <016301c86e86$4dd2e900$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> <30b660a20802140737u7065d940jf231b4c3d4f16650@mail.gmail.com> <012e01c86f31$36ba2a70$8955f853@streamserve.com> X-Google-Sender-Auth: d0a16e5899786cb5 Cc: LTRU Working Group Subject: Re: [Ltru] Proposed edit MD12 (davis) X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1997900467==" Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org --===============1997900467== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_4482_11593868.1203016375129" ------=_Part_4482_11593868.1203016375129 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline There is a prohibition on changing Preferred-Value: 3.4. Stability of IANA Registry EntriesValues in the fields 'Type', 'Subtag', 'Tag', 'Added', 'Deprecated' and 'Preferred-Value' MUST NOT be changed and are guaranteed to be stable over time. I think the goal of that was to have the canonical form not vary over time, but of course that can't be achieved. If "US" changes to "UX", then the formerly canonical form "en-US" would change under canonicalization once someone updated to the registry. So logically speaking (see below though), I agree that it would be better to change the Preferred-Value to be the recursive result. That would prevent mistakes in using the registry. Moreover, I don't even think that we should have a prohibition on removing the Preferred-Value or Deprecated fields. Suppose that on 2011-11-11, Myanmar changes its name back to Burma, and ISO changes the country code back to BU. In that case, the correct course of action would be for us to do the following, which is not currently permitted by the spec. FROM: %% Type: region Subtag: BU Description: Burma Added: 2005-10-16 Preferred-Value: MM Deprecated: 1989-12-05 %% ... %% Type: region Subtag: MM Description: Myanmar Added: 2005-10-16 %% TO: %% Type: region Subtag: BU Description: Burma Added: 2005-10-16 %% ... %% Type: region Subtag: MM Description: Myanmar Added: 2005-10-16 Preferred-Value: BU Deprecated: 2011-11-11 %% However, now doesn't seem to be the time to make such a change, so we may have to resign ourselves to yet another version. Mark On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 9:44 AM, Kent Karlsson wrote: > Since the label chosen was "Preferred-Value", rather than something more > neutral, > like "Mapto-Value", I think that the value listed should *not* be a > deprecated value > with another preferred value. I.e. I think the transitiveness should be > shorted out > when maintaining the registry, rather than by users of the registry. > > The current text also says: > * For fields of type 'language', 'Preferred-Value' contains the > primary language subtag that is preferred when forming the > language tag. > and similarly for the other types. This does in no way imply that there > may > be further steps of preferredness, and trying to make it so may result in > inconsistent wording in various places in the text, and will surely (even > if > we get all the wording consistent) introduce confusion: "Is not the > preferred > value preferred?". > > Surely it is better to map directly to the true preferred value (if there > is any), > and allow, or rather require, that this is maintained both in this bulk > update, > and during regular maintenance. I see that as much better than allowing > for some comment on that issue in the registry record. > > /kent k > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* ltru-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ltru-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of > *Mark Davis > *Sent:* Thursday, February 14, 2008 4:37 PM > *To:* Randy Presuhn > *Cc:* LTRU Working Group > *Subject:* Re: [Ltru] Proposed edit MD12 (davis) > > I don't view this as a technical change; it doesn't change the registry > format; it doesn't change what qualifies as language tags; it just makes it > easier for implementers to see what the intended result is. > > If we changed the SHOULD to should, would that make it easier? > > Mark > > On Wed, Feb 13, 2008 at 1:20 PM, Randy Presuhn < > randy_presuhn@mindspring.com> wrote: > > > Hi - > > > > As co-chair, I'm splitting this comment into a separate thread > > since in my judgement it could be understood to be a technical > > change. > > > > Randy > > > > > From: "Mark Davis" > > > To: "LTRU Working Group" > > > Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 11:01 AM > > > Subject: [Ltru] Proposed edits (davis) > > ... > > > MD12 > > > The 'Preferred-Value' field in records of type "grandfathered" and > > > "redundant" contains whole language tags that are strongly > > > RECOMMENDED for use in place of the record's value. In many cases, > > > the mappings were created by deprecation of the tags during the > > > period before this document was adopted. For example, the tag "no- > > > nyn" was deprecated in favor of the ISO 639-1-defined language code > > > 'nn'. > > > [ADD] > > > If the value of a Preferred-Value is not canonical (such as when it > > is > > > a tag or contains a subtag that itself has a Preferred-Value), then > > > a Comment > > > SHOULD be added to the record to that effect. For example: > > > > > > Preferred-Value: zh-hakka > > > Comment: The canonical form of "zh-hakka" is "hak". > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ltru mailing list > > Ltru@ietf.org > > http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru > > > > > > -- > Mark > > > _______________________________________________ > Ltru mailing list > Ltru@ietf.org > http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru > > -- Mark ------=_Part_4482_11593868.1203016375129 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline There is a prohibition on changing Preferred-Value:

3.4.  Stability of IANA Registry Entries

Values in the fields 'Type', 'Subtag', 'Tag', 'Added', 'Deprecated' and 'Preferred-Value' MUST NOT be changed and are guaranteed to be stable over time.

I think the goal of that was to have the canonical form not vary over time, but of course that can't be achieved. If "US" changes to "UX", then the formerly canonical form "en-US" would change under canonicalization once someone updated to the registry. So logically speaking (see below though), I agree that it would be better to change the Preferred-Value to be the recursive result. That would prevent mistakes in using the registry.

Moreover, I don't even think that we should have a prohibition on removing the Preferred-Value or Deprecated fields. Suppose that on 2011-11-11, Myanmar changes its name back to Burma, and ISO changes the country code back to BU. In that case, the correct course of action would be for us to do the following, which is not currently permitted by the spec.

FROM:
%%
Type: region
Subtag: BU
Description: Burma
Added: 2005-10-16
Preferred-Value: MM

Deprecated: 1989-12-05
%%
...
%%
Type: region
Subtag: MM
Description: Myanmar
Added: 2005-10-16

%%

TO:
%%
Type: region
Subtag: BU
Description: Burma
Added: 2005-10-16
%%
...
%%
Type: region
Subtag: MM
Description: Myanmar
Added: 2005-10-16
Preferred-Value: BU
Deprecated: 2011-11-11

%%
However, now doesn't seem to be the time to make such a change, so we may have to resign ourselves to yet another version.

Mark

On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 9:44 AM, Kent Karlsson <kent.karlsson14@comhem.se> wrote:
Since the label chosen was "Preferred-Value", rather than something more neutral,
like "Mapto-Value", I think that the value listed should not be a deprecated value
with another preferred value. I.e. I think the transitiveness should be shorted out
when maintaining the registry, rather than by users of the registry.
 
The current text also says:
      *  For fields of type 'language', 'Preferred-Value' contains the
         primary language subtag that is preferred when forming the
         language tag.
and similarly for the other types. This does in no way imply that there may
be further steps of preferredness, and trying to make it so may result in
inconsistent wording in various places in the text, and will surely (even if
we get all the wording consistent) introduce confusion: "Is not the preferred
value preferred?".
 
Surely it is better to map directly to the true preferred value (if there is any),
and allow, or rather require, that this is maintained both in this bulk update,
and during regular maintenance. I see that as much better than allowing
for some comment on that issue in the registry record.
 
        /kent k
 

From: ltru-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ltru-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Mark Davis
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 4:37 PM
To: Randy Presuhn
Cc: LTRU Working Group
Subject: Re: [Ltru] Proposed edit MD12 (davis)

I don't view this as a technical change; it doesn't change the registry format; it doesn't change what qualifies as language tags; it just makes it easier for implementers to see what the intended result is.

If we changed the SHOULD to should, would that make it easier?

Mark

On Wed, Feb 13, 2008 at 1:20 PM, Randy Presuhn <randy_presuhn@mindspring.com> wrote:
Hi -

As co-chair, I'm splitting this comment into a separate thread
since in my judgement it could be understood to be a technical
change.

Randy

> From: "Mark Davis" <mark.davis@icu-project.org>
> To: "LTRU Working Group" <ltru@ietf.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 11:01 AM
> Subject: [Ltru] Proposed edits (davis)
...
> MD12
>    The 'Preferred-Value' field in records of type "grandfathered" and
>    "redundant" contains whole language tags that are strongly
>    RECOMMENDED for use in place of the record's value.  In many cases,
>    the mappings were created by deprecation of the tags during the
>    period before this document was adopted.  For example, the tag "no-
>    nyn" was deprecated in favor of the ISO 639-1-defined language code
>    'nn'.
> [ADD]
>    If the value of a Preferred-Value is not canonical (such as when it is
>    a tag or contains a subtag that itself has a Preferred-Value), then
> a Comment
>    SHOULD be added to the record to that effect. For example:
>
>    Preferred-Value: zh-hakka
>    Comment: The canonical form of "zh-hakka" is "hak".
>


_______________________________________________
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Ltru@ietf.org
http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru



--
Mark

_______________________________________________
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Ltru@ietf.org
http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru




--
Mark ------=_Part_4482_11593868.1203016375129-- --===============1997900467== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru --===============1997900467==-- From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Thu Feb 14 12:04:01 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B74FD28D1EC; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 12:04:01 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.108 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.108 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.329, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DkUcSadpZ72V; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 12:04:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C27A828D1BB; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 12:02:49 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2479D3A70CB for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 12:02:48 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jJEGe6qBvvUR for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 12:02:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from elasmtp-curtail.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-curtail.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.64]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8261C28D26A for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 12:01:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from [69.3.28.74] (helo=oemcomputer) by elasmtp-curtail.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1JPkIP-00010j-Np for ltru@ietf.org; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 15:03:02 -0500 Message-ID: <007c01c86f44$b25f2be0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> From: "Randy Presuhn" To: "LTRU Working Group" References: <30b660a20802131101h3f58fa4bh6730cc706ad2d9d9@mail.gmail.com><014c01c86e84$e29f7aa0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer><20080214150615.GA30974@sources.org> <47B45DF2.1090206@yahoo-inc.com> <30b660a20802140733u6dce4de5la7c18c06369e19c8@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 12:03:41 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-ELNK-Trace: 4488c18417c9426da92b9037bc8bcf44d4c20f6b8d69d8885d2a9c731cc891174331a227a90d8b9407fb597d5c2df625350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 69.3.28.74 Subject: Re: [Ltru] Proposed edit MD6 (davis) X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Hi - As co-chair, it looks to me like we have a rough consensus to *not* add the proposed file-level comments. Randy _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Thu Feb 14 12:12:12 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFE7B3A67E1; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 12:12:11 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.132 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.132 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.305, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zblkbh1IHhdF; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 12:12:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AEA1C28CF64; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 12:12:01 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 929903A6813 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 12:12:00 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nUJw-pERzNe0 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 12:11:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.70]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 678253A7118 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 12:09:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from [69.3.28.74] (helo=oemcomputer) by elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1JPkPr-0000Ce-Jb for ltru@ietf.org; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 15:10:43 -0500 Message-ID: <00a501c86f45$c618cdc0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> From: "Randy Presuhn" To: "LTRU Working Group" References: <30b660a20802131101h3f58fa4bh6730cc706ad2d9d9@mail.gmail.com> <016301c86e86$4dd2e900$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> <30b660a20802140737u7065d940jf231b4c3d4f16650@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 12:11:23 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-ELNK-Trace: 4488c18417c9426da92b9037bc8bcf44d4c20f6b8d69d8885d2a9c731cc891173eaff8cd72f18e970fc3c42142d701e4350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 69.3.28.74 Subject: Re: [Ltru] Proposed edit MD12 (davis) X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Hi - > From: "Mark Davis" > To: "Randy Presuhn" > Cc: "LTRU Working Group" > Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 7:37 AM > Subject: Re: [Ltru] Proposed edit MD12 (davis) > > I don't view this as a technical change; it doesn't change the registry > format; it doesn't change what qualifies as language tags; it just makes it > easier for implementers to see what the intended result is. > > If we changed the SHOULD to should, would that make it easier? ... As co-chair: No. It still changes the instructions for the maintenance of the registry, and is consequently, from the perspective of this document as a BCP-to-be, is a technical change. As a technical contributor: I think that the change is innocuous and cannot cause any new problems. As a co-chair: There's nothing wrong with accepting an innocuous technical change during WG last call, particularly if no one can figure out any way in which it might cause a problem. Randy _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Thu Feb 14 12:12:41 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BBE33A68F1; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 12:12:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.161 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.161 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.276, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KhD3Zlb3V7jK; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 12:12:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 218963A68A4; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 12:12:40 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 528EA3A6849 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 12:12:38 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id K9phTGfH7WuD for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 12:12:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.66]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FA573A6813 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 12:12:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from [69.3.28.74] (helo=oemcomputer) by elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1JPkSy-0000vz-2v for ltru@ietf.org; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 15:13:56 -0500 Message-ID: <00ad01c86f46$38e84880$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> From: "Randy Presuhn" To: "LTRU Working Group" References: <30b660a20802131101h3f58fa4bh6730cc706ad2d9d9@mail.gmail.com> <014701c86e84$83848e20$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> <30b660a20802140737g78160b7ej3f3f9493ae8fd95b@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 12:14:36 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-ELNK-Trace: 4488c18417c9426da92b9037bc8bcf44d4c20f6b8d69d8885d2a9c731cc8911772be2f4253502d4bf82d393f7bd65ea4350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 69.3.28.74 Subject: Re: [Ltru] Proposed edits (davis) MD4 X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Hi - > From: "Mark Davis" > To: "Randy Presuhn" > Cc: "LTRU Working Group" > Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 7:37 AM > Subject: Re: [Ltru] Proposed edits (davis) MD4 > > It is a valid example. The private use subtags (x-...) can be used to add > arbitrary information to a language tag. We do not limit what that > information is, and we couldn't in any event. > > My only thought here was to use an actual, documented example of the use of > private use subtags, rather than an artificial example. As a technical contributor, I agree with the intent. However, the proposed example is *not* a language tag, even though it happens to have a compatible syntax. There has been too much grief in the past due to confusion between language tags and locales. This is not a good time to blur the distinction. Randy _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Thu Feb 14 12:20:15 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4AE03A70FD; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 12:20:15 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.179 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.179 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.258, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gds+c5oo7wIi; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 12:20:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59F9E3A70FB; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 12:20:12 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 216D528D092 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 12:20:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Y4EiU9b0H1Bk for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 12:20:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from elasmtp-scoter.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-scoter.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.67]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93FEA28CE9A for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 12:20:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from [69.3.28.74] (helo=oemcomputer) by elasmtp-scoter.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1JPkaF-0003Dm-NU for ltru@ietf.org; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 15:21:28 -0500 Message-ID: <00d001c86f47$460bd1c0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> From: "Randy Presuhn" To: "LTRU Working Group" References: <30b660a20802131101h3f58fa4bh6730cc706ad2d9d9@mail.gmail.com> <30b660a20802140739t5a67a6eeje8292111831b4158@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 12:22:07 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-ELNK-Trace: 4488c18417c9426da92b9037bc8bcf44d4c20f6b8d69d8885d2a9c731cc8911732ae8451132225b09adcdd91f85f0ef5350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 69.3.28.74 Subject: Re: [Ltru] Proposed edits (davis) X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Hi - > From: "Mark Davis" > To: "LTRU Working Group" > Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 7:39 AM > Subject: Re: [Ltru] Proposed edits (davis) > > Other than the items that Randy separated out with separate subjects, does > anyone object to the other items? As a technical contributor, I had no problem with those other items. In my judgement as a co-chair, I regarded them as being purely editorial. > Should I split them also into separate subjects? Only if someone has a problem with one of them. Let's treat them as being accepted. If someone finds out that they cannot live with one of those changes, let them open a new thread and we'll deal with the issue then. Randy _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Thu Feb 14 13:17:22 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4765828D0CE; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 13:17:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.518 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.518 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.081, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, HTML_MESSAGE=1, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JWk7y5uD2TQP; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 13:17:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F7293A70AF; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 13:17:21 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1946D3A6999 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 13:17:20 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SnDHkfS9mBhD for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 13:17:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from blu139-omc2-s2.blu139.hotmail.com (blu139-omc2-s2.blu139.hotmail.com [65.55.175.172]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E402D28D0CE for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 13:17:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from BLU109-W36 ([65.55.162.186]) by blu139-omc2-s2.blu139.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Thu, 14 Feb 2008 13:14:49 -0800 Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [168.12.253.66] From: CE Whitehead To: Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 16:14:48 -0500 Importance: Normal MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Feb 2008 21:14:49.0300 (UTC) FILETIME=[A1D0B140:01C86F4E] Cc: Ann Rice Subject: [Ltru] Extensions, Extended Language Subtags (new topic from Some typos . . .) X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1852880832==" Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org --===============1852880832== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_85b52f23-0bd1-4f44-921e-a7ad643633f7_" --_85b52f23-0bd1-4f44-921e-a7ad643633f7_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 Hi.=20 =20 Regarding, http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ltru-4646bis-11.txt=20 Regarding extensions,=20 =20 (1), A single digit or character is used for these rfc's--so how many chara= cters/digits are there available for registering extensions? That is, are = you accepting other unicode characters (I assume that you are not making a= real distinction between upper and lower case ascii)? (2), Also, the old e= xtended language tags are deprecated? grandfathered? I see the tag zh-ga= n could be formed when [gan] became an extended language subtag (section 3.= 4 item 16) =20 Is [gan] now deprecated? zh-gan grandfathered? (I'm sorry; I don't know; = please clarify for dummies). =20 (This example's being deleted because not a good example, fine.) =20 Regarding "Extended Language Subtags," On Wed, Feb 13, 2008 at 09:45:28AM = +0100,Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote a message of 44 line= s which said:> 1) The most important: "extended language subtags" or simila= r> expressions appear in a lot of places despite extlang removal. Do we> ag= ree they should all be suppressed? ( I agree that mention of "Extended language" should be suppressed from this= document except maybe (back to my question) to say that these particular tags/subtag= s grandfathered or deprecated?? =20 --C. E. Whitehead cewcathar@hotmail.com = --_85b52f23-0bd1-4f44-921e-a7ad643633f7_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

 

Hi. 

 

Regarding,

http://= www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ltru-4646bis-11.txt<= BR> 

Regarding extensions, 

 

(1), A single digit or character is used fo= r these rfc's--so how many characters/digits are there available for regist= ering extensions?  That is, are you accepting other unicode chara= cters  (I assume that you are not making a real distinction between up= per and lower case ascii)?
 
(2), Also, the old extended languag= e tags are deprecated?  grandfathered?  
 
I see = the tag zh-gan could be formed when [gan] became an extended language = subtag (section 3.4 item 16) 

Is [gan] now deprecated?  zh-gan grand= fathered?  (I'm sorry; I don't know; please clarify for dummies).

 

(This example's being deleted because not a= good example, fine.)

 

Regarding "Extended Language Subtags," = ;
 On Wed, Feb 13, 2008 at 09:45:28AM +0100,
Stephane Bortzmeyer= <bortzmeyer at nic.fr> wrote
a message of 44 lines which said:
> 1) The most important: "extended language subtags" or similar> expressions appear in a lot of places despite extlang removal. Do we<= BR>> agree they should all be suppressed? (

 
I agree that mention of "Extended= language" should be suppressed from this document

except maybe (back to my question) to say t= hat these particular tags/subtags grandfathered or deprecated??

 

--C. E. Whitehead

cewcath= ar@hotmail.com

= --_85b52f23-0bd1-4f44-921e-a7ad643633f7_-- --===============1852880832== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru --===============1852880832==-- From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Thu Feb 14 13:30:52 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 729C73A68F4; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 13:30:52 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.153 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.153 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.716, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, HTML_MESSAGE=1, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hV-66w3OK+hB; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 13:30:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E9923A6867; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 13:30:51 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FD223A68EE for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 13:30:50 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 27HptvrqrK71 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 13:30:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from ch-smtp02.sth.basefarm.net (ch-smtp02.sth.basefarm.net [80.76.149.213]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 815B83A6920 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 13:30:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from c83-248-85-137.bredband.comhem.se ([83.248.85.137]:4683 helo=wgbgkka02x) by ch-smtp02.sth.basefarm.net with esmtp (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1JPlgR-0007ve-72; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 22:31:59 +0100 From: "Kent Karlsson" To: "'CE Whitehead'" , References: Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 22:31:47 +0100 Message-ID: <014e01c86f51$04d63380$8955f853@streamserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: AchvT1IQz7ybTfb0RGiAFPdPg8SPhgAAFKGA X-Originating-IP: 83.248.85.137 X-Scan-Result: No virus found in message 1JPlgR-0007ve-72. X-Scan-Signature: ch-smtp02.sth.basefarm.net 1JPlgR-0007ve-72 ea7c2786fdd3fd28a8255811ba15b854 Cc: 'Ann Rice' Subject: Re: [Ltru] Extensions, Extended Language Subtags (new topic from Some typos . . .) X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0739867481==" Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============0739867481== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_014F_01C86F59.669A9B80" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_014F_01C86F59.669A9B80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit See below. _____ From: ltru-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ltru-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of CE Whitehead Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 10:15 PM To: ltru@ietf.org Cc: Ann Rice Subject: [Ltru] Extensions, Extended Language Subtags (new topic from Some typos . . .) Hi. Regarding, http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ltru-4646bis-11.txt Regarding extensions, (1), A single digit or character is used for these rfc's--so how many characters/digits are there available for registering extensions? That is, are you accepting other unicode characters (I assume that you are not making a real distinction between upper and lower case ascii)? No, only a-z (except x) and 0-9. There is no registered extension. (I guess it is unlikely that there ever will be any...) (2), Also, the old extended language tags are deprecated? grandfathered? Non-existent (those that look like they use extlangs don't really). I see the tag zh-gan could be formed when [gan] became an extended language subtag (section 3.4 item 16) Is [gan] now deprecated? zh-gan grandfathered? (I'm sorry; I don't know; please clarify for dummies). That example and others like it are grandfathered, but they will be deprecated (most often with a preferred value). See the 4645bis draft. /kent k (This example's being deleted because not a good example, fine.) Regarding "Extended Language Subtags," On Wed, Feb 13, 2008 at 09:45:28AM +0100, Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote a message of 44 lines which said: > 1) The most important: "extended language subtags" or similar > expressions appear in a lot of places despite extlang removal. Do we > agree they should all be suppressed? ( I agree that mention of "Extended language" should be suppressed from this document except maybe (back to my question) to say that these particular tags/subtags grandfathered or deprecated?? --C. E. Whitehead cewcathar@hotmail.com ------=_NextPart_000_014F_01C86F59.669A9B80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
See below.

From: ltru-bounces@ietf.org=20 [mailto:ltru-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of CE=20 Whitehead
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 10:15 = PM
To:=20 ltru@ietf.org
Cc: Ann Rice
Subject: [Ltru] = Extensions,=20 Extended Language Subtags (new topic from Some typos . .=20 .)

 

Hi. 

 

Regarding,

http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ltru-4646b= is-11.txt
 

Regarding=20 extensions, 

 

(1),=20 A single digit or character is used for these rfc's--so how many=20 characters/digits are there available for registering = extensions?  That=20 is, are you accepting other unicode characters  (I assume = that you=20 are not making a real distinction between upper and lower case=20 ascii)?
  

No, only a-z = (except x) and=20 0-9. There is no registered extension. (I guess it is unlikely that = there ever=20 will be any...)

 
(2), Also, the old = extended language=20 tags are deprecated?  grandfathered?  
  

Non-existent = (those that=20 look like they use extlangs don't really).

 
I see the tag zh-gan could = be formed when [gan] became an extended language subtag (section = 3.4 item=20 16) 

Is [gan]=20 now deprecated?  zh-gan grandfathered?  (I'm sorry; I don't = know;=20 please clarify for dummies).

 

That example = and others like=20 it are grandfathered, but they will be deprecated (most often with a = preferred=20 value). See the 4645bis draft.

 

    /kent=20 k

 

 

(This = example's being deleted because not a good example, = fine.)

 

Regarding=20 "Extended Language Subtags," 
 On Wed, Feb 13, 2008 = at=20 09:45:28AM +0100,
Stephane Bortzmeyer <bortzmeyer at nic.fr> = wrote=20
a message of 44 lines which said:

> 1) The most = important:=20 "extended language subtags" or similar
> expressions appear in a = lot of=20 places despite extlang removal. Do we
> agree they should all be = suppressed? (


I = agree that mention of "Extended language" should be = suppressed from=20 this document

except maybe=20 (back to my question) to say that these particular tags/subtags=20 grandfathered or deprecated??

 

--C. = E.=20 Whitehead

cewcathar@hotmail.com=20

------=_NextPart_000_014F_01C86F59.669A9B80-- --===============0739867481== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru --===============0739867481==-- From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Thu Feb 14 22:11:12 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFF523A6A21; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 22:11:12 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.562 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.562 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.125, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5OEgoKSH1MJy; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 22:11:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF92B3A69DB; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 22:11:11 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C1463A69AF for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 22:11:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SnVTC7j0J9kk for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 22:11:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from mta15.adelphia.net (mta15.mail.adelphia.net [68.168.78.77]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EA5E3A6A17 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2008 22:11:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from DGBP7M81 ([76.167.184.182]) by mta15.adelphia.net (InterMail vM.6.01.05.04 201-2131-123-105-20051025) with SMTP id <20080215061229.CWTK26734.mta15.adelphia.net@DGBP7M81> for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 01:12:29 -0500 Message-ID: <003801c86f99$bf090d20$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> From: "Doug Ewell" To: "LTRU Working Group" References: Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 22:12:29 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 Subject: Re: [Ltru] Proposed edit MD12 (davis) X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org TWFyayBEYXZpcyA8bWFyayBkb3QgZGF2aXMgYXQgaWN1IGRhc2ggcHJvamVjdCBkb3Qgb3JnPiB3 cm90ZToKCj4gSSB0aGluayB0aGUgZ29hbCBvZiB0aGF0IHdhcyB0byBoYXZlIHRoZSBjYW5vbmlj YWwgZm9ybSBub3QgdmFyeSBvdmVyIAo+IHRpbWUsIGJ1dCBvZiBjb3Vyc2UgdGhhdCBjYW4ndCBi ZSBhY2hpZXZlZC4gSWYgIlVTIiBjaGFuZ2VzIHRvICJVWCIsIAo+IHRoZW4gdGhlIGZvcm1lcmx5 IGNhbm9uaWNhbCBmb3JtICJlbi1VUyIgd291bGQgY2hhbmdlIHVuZGVyIAo+IGNhbm9uaWNhbGl6 YXRpb24gb25jZSBzb21lb25lIHVwZGF0ZWQgdG8gdGhlIHJlZ2lzdHJ5LiBTbyBsb2dpY2FsbHkg Cj4gc3BlYWtpbmcgKHNlZSBiZWxvdyB0aG91Z2gpLCBJIGFncmVlIHRoYXQgaXQgd291bGQgYmUg YmV0dGVyIHRvIGNoYW5nZSAKPiB0aGUgUHJlZmVycmVkLVZhbHVlIHRvIGJlIHRoZSByZWN1cnNp dmUgcmVzdWx0LiBUaGF0IHdvdWxkIHByZXZlbnQgCj4gbWlzdGFrZXMgaW4gdXNpbmcgdGhlIHJl Z2lzdHJ5LgoKQXQgbGFzdCwgc29tZW9uZSBoYXMgbWFkZSBhbiBlZmZvcnQgdG8gZmlndXJlIG91 dCB3aHkgdGhpcyBydWxlIGV4aXN0cy4gClNvbWV0aW1lcyBJIGdldCB0aGUgZmVlbGluZyBzb21l IG9mIHRoZXNlIG9sZCBpc3N1ZXMgYXJlIGJlaW5nIHJldmlzaXRlZCAKYXMgaWYgdGhleSBoYWQg YmVlbiBhZGRlZCB0byA0NjQ2IHB1cmVseSBieSBjaGFuY2UuCgpJZiBNYXJrIGFuZCBvdGhlcnMg dW5kZXJzdGFuZCB0aGUgb3JpZ2luYWwgcmF0aW9uYWxlIGZvciB0cnlpbmcgdG8gCmFjaGlldmUg c3RhYmlsaXR5IGhlcmUsIGFuZCBzdGlsbCBmZWVsIHRoYXQgaXQgd291bGQgYmUgT0sgdG8gcmV2 ZXJzZSAKdGhpcyBydWxlIGFuZCBhbGxvdyBQcmVmZXJyZWQtVmFsdWUgdG8gY2hhbmdlLCBJIGRv bid0IGhhdmUgYW55IApvYmplY3Rpb24uICBpdCBjZXJ0YWlubHkgc2ltcGxpZmllcyB0aGUgam9i IG9mIGltcGxlbWVudGVycywgaW5jbHVkaW5nIAptZS4KCj4gTW9yZW92ZXIsIEkgZG9uJ3QgZXZl biB0aGluayB0aGF0IHdlIHNob3VsZCBoYXZlIGEgcHJvaGliaXRpb24gb24gCj4gcmVtb3Zpbmcg dGhlIFByZWZlcnJlZC1WYWx1ZSBvciBEZXByZWNhdGVkIGZpZWxkcy4gU3VwcG9zZSB0aGF0IG9u IAo+IDIwMTEtMTEtMTEsIE15YW5tYXIgY2hhbmdlcyBpdHMgbmFtZSBiYWNrIHRvIEJ1cm1hLCBh bmQgSVNPIGNoYW5nZXMgCj4gdGhlIGNvdW50cnkgY29kZSBiYWNrIHRvIEJVLiBJbiB0aGF0IGNh c2UsIHRoZSBjb3JyZWN0IGNvdXJzZSBvZiAKPiBhY3Rpb24gd291bGQgYmUgZm9yIHVzIHRvIGRv IHRoZSBmb2xsb3dpbmcsIHdoaWNoIGlzIG5vdCBjdXJyZW50bHkgCj4gcGVybWl0dGVkIGJ5IHRo ZSBzcGVjLgoKTGlrZXdpc2UsIEkgaGF2ZSBubyBwcm9ibGVtIHdpdGggdGhpcywgYXMgbG9uZyBh cyB3ZSB1bmRlcnN0YW5kIHdoYXQgd2UgCndlcmUgdGhpbmtpbmcgaW4gdGhlIGZpcnN0IHBsYWNl IGFuZCBmZWVsIHdlIG5vdyBoYXZlIGJldHRlciAKcGVyc3BlY3RpdmUuCgotLQpEb3VnIEV3ZWxs ICAqICBGdWxsZXJ0b24sIENhbGlmb3JuaWEsIFVTQSAgKiAgUkZDIDQ2NDUgICogIFVUTiAjMTQK aHR0cDovL3d3dy5ld2VsbGljLm9yZwpodHRwOi8vd3d3MS5pZXRmLm9yZy9odG1sLmNoYXJ0ZXJz L2x0cnUtY2hhcnRlci5odG1sCmh0dHA6Ly93d3cuYWx2ZXN0cmFuZC5uby9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3Rp bmZvL2lldGYtbGFuZ3VhZ2VzICDLhgoKX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX18KTHRydSBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QKTHRydUBpZXRmLm9yZwpodHRwOi8vd3d3 LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vbHRydQo= From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Fri Feb 15 05:27:42 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF8C728D0F4; 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Fri, 15 Feb 2008 05:27:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx2.nic.fr (mx2.nic.fr [192.134.4.11]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C7AB3A6A93 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 05:27:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx2.nic.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mx2.nic.fr (Postfix) with SMTP id 62A0E1C0106 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 14:29:00 +0100 (CET) Received: from relay2.nic.fr (relay2.nic.fr [192.134.4.163]) by mx2.nic.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E2331C00EE for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 14:29:00 +0100 (CET) Received: from bortzmeyer.nic.fr (batilda.nic.fr [192.134.4.69]) by relay2.nic.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5274E58ECC8 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 14:29:00 +0100 (CET) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 14:29:00 +0100 From: Stephane Bortzmeyer To: LTRU Working Group Message-ID: <20080215132900.GA30234@nic.fr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline X-Operating-System: Debian GNU/Linux 4.0 X-Kernel: Linux 2.6.18-6-686 i686 Organization: NIC France X-URL: http://www.nic.fr/ User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11) Subject: [Ltru] Meeting in Philadelphia for IETF 71? X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Apparently, we did not discuss the need for a face-to-face meeting in Philadelphia for IETF 71? I wonder if it would be a good idea to meet in order to discuss a future possible rechartering for incorporation of ISO 639-5 and ISO 639-6 (which seem close to completion, no?) _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Fri Feb 15 07:19:32 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C42F028D17D; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 07:19:32 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.852 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.852 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.333, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, HTML_MESSAGE=1, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QPJmu3JbpemK; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 07:19:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC17D28D1E4; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 07:19:27 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A72728D1DA for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 07:19:26 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DKuidYfGJ6T0 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 07:19:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from wr-out-0506.google.com (wr-out-0506.google.com [64.233.184.237]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E421628D1DE for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 07:18:48 -0800 (PST) Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id 50so1385603wri.25 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 07:20:09 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.142.108.14 with SMTP id g14mr2370589wfc.52.1203088808823; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 07:20:08 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.143.174.8 with HTTP; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 07:20:08 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <30b660a20802150720uc8a28edj4620832bec37b7e8@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 07:20:08 -0800 From: "Mark Davis" To: "Stephane Bortzmeyer" In-Reply-To: <20080215132900.GA30234@nic.fr> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20080215132900.GA30234@nic.fr> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 7cbc06aed23ceb19 Cc: LTRU Working Group Subject: Re: [Ltru] Meeting in Philadelphia for IETF 71? X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0588850097==" Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org --===============0588850097== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_9828_9885811.1203088808831" ------=_Part_9828_9885811.1203088808831 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline For the same reasons as outlined earlier, it is far better to have a telephone meeting than a F2F. Mark On Fri, Feb 15, 2008 at 5:29 AM, Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote: > Apparently, we did not discuss the need for a face-to-face meeting in > Philadelphia for IETF 71? > > I wonder if it would be a good idea to meet in order to discuss a > future possible rechartering for incorporation of ISO 639-5 and ISO > 639-6 (which seem close to completion, no?) > _______________________________________________ > Ltru mailing list > Ltru@ietf.org > http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru > -- Mark ------=_Part_9828_9885811.1203088808831 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline For the same reasons as outlined earlier, it is far better to have a telephone meeting than a F2F.

Mark

On Fri, Feb 15, 2008 at 5:29 AM, Stephane Bortzmeyer <bortzmeyer@nic.fr> wrote:
Apparently, we did not discuss the need for a face-to-face meeting in
Philadelphia for IETF 71?

I wonder if it would be a good idea to meet in order to discuss a
future possible rechartering for incorporation of ISO 639-5 and ISO
639-6 (which seem close to completion, no?)
_______________________________________________
Ltru mailing list
Ltru@ietf.org
http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru



--
Mark ------=_Part_9828_9885811.1203088808831-- --===============0588850097== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru --===============0588850097==-- From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Fri Feb 15 09:46:51 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 669483A6B6C; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 09:46:51 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.246 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.246 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.191, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Azmd+m5ZPZdr; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 09:46:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD6933A6B83; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 09:46:47 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4F1D3A6B32 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 09:46:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SEDVBxXNH1bZ for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 09:46:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from elasmtp-scoter.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-scoter.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.67]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC3BF28D305 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 09:45:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from [69.3.145.246] (helo=oemcomputer) by elasmtp-scoter.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1JQ4eB-0000lQ-05 for ltru@ietf.org; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 12:46:51 -0500 Message-ID: <003601c86ffa$d715dae0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> From: "Randy Presuhn" To: "LTRU Working Group" References: <003801c86f99$bf090d20$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 09:47:31 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-ELNK-Trace: 4488c18417c9426da92b9037bc8bcf44d4c20f6b8d69d8885d2a9c731cc89117f510e68d9f19e9098a51fce0cbbdf9ce350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 69.3.145.246 Subject: Re: [Ltru] Proposed edit MD12 (davis) X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org SGkgLQoKQXMgYSB0ZWNobmljYWwgY29udHJpYnV0b3IuLi4KCk9uZSBvZiB0aGUgcmVhc29ucyBm b3IgdGhlIHN1YnRhZyByZWdpc3RyeSB3YXMgdG8gcHJvdmlkZSBhIG1lYXN1cmUKb2YgaW5zdWxh dGlvbiBmcm9tIHBvc3NpYmxlIGluc3RhYmlsaXRpZXMgaW4gdGhlIHNvdXJjZXMgb2YgdGhlIGNv ZGVzLgpJIHRoaW5rIHRoZSBleGFtcGxlIG1ha2VzIHRoZSB3cm9uZyBzdXBwb3NpdGlvbnMuICBJ ZiBhICJVWCIgKHJlZmVycmluZwp0byBhbmQgZWZmZWN0aXZlbHkgc3lub255bW91cyB3aXRoIHRo ZSBmb3JtZXIgIlVTIikgc2hvd3MgdXAsICJlbi1VUyIKc2hvdWxkIHJlbWFpbiB0aGUgY2Fub25p Y2FsIGZvcm0uICBUbyBoYXZlIGEgZm9ybWVybHkgY2Fub25pY2FsIHRhZwpjaGFuZ2Ugb3ZlciB0 aW1lIHNvdW5kcyBsaWtlIGEgdmVyeSBiYWQgdGhpbmcuICBJJ20gYWxzbyBjb25jZXJuZWQKdGhh dCBpZiB0aGUgV0cgaXMgd2lsbGluZyB0byBtYWtlIHN1Y2ggYSByYWRpY2FsIGNoYW5nZSBpbiBp dHMgYXR0aXR1ZGUKdG93YXJkIGxhbmd1YWdlIHRhZyBzdGFiaWxpdHkgZHVyaW5nIHdvcmtpbmcg Z3JvdXAgbGFzdCBjYWxsLCB0aGF0IHdlCm1heSBiZSBzZW50IGJhY2sgdG8gc3F1YXJlIG9uZS4K CkluIHNob3J0LCBJIG9wcG9zZSByZW1vdmluZyB0aGUgcHJvaGliaXRpb24gb24gcmVtb3Zpbmcg UHJlZmVycmVkLVZhbHVlIG9yCkRlcHJlY2F0ZWQgZmllbGRzIGlmIHRoYXQgaXMgZ29pbmcgdG8g YmUgdW5kZXJzdG9vZCBhcyBwZXJtaXR0aW5nIGNoYW5nZXMKdG8gdGhlIGNhbm9uaWNhbCBmb3Jt IG9mIGEgdGFnLgoKUmFuZHkKCj4gRnJvbTogIkRvdWcgRXdlbGwiIDxkZXdlbGxAcm9hZHJ1bm5l ci5jb20+Cj4gVG86ICJMVFJVIFdvcmtpbmcgR3JvdXAiIDxsdHJ1QGlldGYub3JnPgo+IFNlbnQ6 IFRodXJzZGF5LCBGZWJydWFyeSAxNCwgMjAwOCAxMDoxMiBQTQo+IFN1YmplY3Q6IFJlOiBbTHRy dV0gUHJvcG9zZWQgZWRpdCBNRDEyIChkYXZpcykKPgo+IE1hcmsgRGF2aXMgPG1hcmsgZG90IGRh dmlzIGF0IGljdSBkYXNoIHByb2plY3QgZG90IG9yZz4gd3JvdGU6Cj4KPiA+IEkgdGhpbmsgdGhl IGdvYWwgb2YgdGhhdCB3YXMgdG8gaGF2ZSB0aGUgY2Fub25pY2FsIGZvcm0gbm90IHZhcnkgb3Zl cgo+ID4gdGltZSwgYnV0IG9mIGNvdXJzZSB0aGF0IGNhbid0IGJlIGFjaGlldmVkLiBJZiAiVVMi IGNoYW5nZXMgdG8gIlVYIiwKPiA+IHRoZW4gdGhlIGZvcm1lcmx5IGNhbm9uaWNhbCBmb3JtICJl bi1VUyIgd291bGQgY2hhbmdlIHVuZGVyCj4gPiBjYW5vbmljYWxpemF0aW9uIG9uY2Ugc29tZW9u ZSB1cGRhdGVkIHRvIHRoZSByZWdpc3RyeS4gU28gbG9naWNhbGx5Cj4gPiBzcGVha2luZyAoc2Vl IGJlbG93IHRob3VnaCksIEkgYWdyZWUgdGhhdCBpdCB3b3VsZCBiZSBiZXR0ZXIgdG8gY2hhbmdl Cj4gPiB0aGUgUHJlZmVycmVkLVZhbHVlIHRvIGJlIHRoZSByZWN1cnNpdmUgcmVzdWx0LiBUaGF0 IHdvdWxkIHByZXZlbnQKPiA+IG1pc3Rha2VzIGluIHVzaW5nIHRoZSByZWdpc3RyeS4KPgo+IEF0 IGxhc3QsIHNvbWVvbmUgaGFzIG1hZGUgYW4gZWZmb3J0IHRvIGZpZ3VyZSBvdXQgd2h5IHRoaXMg cnVsZSBleGlzdHMuCj4gU29tZXRpbWVzIEkgZ2V0IHRoZSBmZWVsaW5nIHNvbWUgb2YgdGhlc2Ug b2xkIGlzc3VlcyBhcmUgYmVpbmcgcmV2aXNpdGVkCj4gYXMgaWYgdGhleSBoYWQgYmVlbiBhZGRl ZCB0byA0NjQ2IHB1cmVseSBieSBjaGFuY2UuCj4KPiBJZiBNYXJrIGFuZCBvdGhlcnMgdW5kZXJz dGFuZCB0aGUgb3JpZ2luYWwgcmF0aW9uYWxlIGZvciB0cnlpbmcgdG8KPiBhY2hpZXZlIHN0YWJp bGl0eSBoZXJlLCBhbmQgc3RpbGwgZmVlbCB0aGF0IGl0IHdvdWxkIGJlIE9LIHRvIHJldmVyc2UK PiB0aGlzIHJ1bGUgYW5kIGFsbG93IFByZWZlcnJlZC1WYWx1ZSB0byBjaGFuZ2UsIEkgZG9uJ3Qg aGF2ZSBhbnkKPiBvYmplY3Rpb24uICBpdCBjZXJ0YWlubHkgc2ltcGxpZmllcyB0aGUgam9iIG9m IGltcGxlbWVudGVycywgaW5jbHVkaW5nCj4gbWUuCj4KPiA+IE1vcmVvdmVyLCBJIGRvbid0IGV2 ZW4gdGhpbmsgdGhhdCB3ZSBzaG91bGQgaGF2ZSBhIHByb2hpYml0aW9uIG9uCj4gPiByZW1vdmlu ZyB0aGUgUHJlZmVycmVkLVZhbHVlIG9yIERlcHJlY2F0ZWQgZmllbGRzLiBTdXBwb3NlIHRoYXQg b24KPiA+IDIwMTEtMTEtMTEsIE15YW5tYXIgY2hhbmdlcyBpdHMgbmFtZSBiYWNrIHRvIEJ1cm1h LCBhbmQgSVNPIGNoYW5nZXMKPiA+IHRoZSBjb3VudHJ5IGNvZGUgYmFjayB0byBCVS4gSW4gdGhh dCBjYXNlLCB0aGUgY29ycmVjdCBjb3Vyc2Ugb2YKPiA+IGFjdGlvbiB3b3VsZCBiZSBmb3IgdXMg dG8gZG8gdGhlIGZvbGxvd2luZywgd2hpY2ggaXMgbm90IGN1cnJlbnRseQo+ID4gcGVybWl0dGVk IGJ5IHRoZSBzcGVjLgo+Cj4gTGlrZXdpc2UsIEkgaGF2ZSBubyBwcm9ibGVtIHdpdGggdGhpcywg YXMgbG9uZyBhcyB3ZSB1bmRlcnN0YW5kIHdoYXQgd2UKPiB3ZXJlIHRoaW5raW5nIGluIHRoZSBm aXJzdCBwbGFjZSBhbmQgZmVlbCB3ZSBub3cgaGF2ZSBiZXR0ZXIKPiBwZXJzcGVjdGl2ZS4KPgo+ IC0tCj4gRG91ZyBFd2VsbCAgKiAgRnVsbGVydG9uLCBDYWxpZm9ybmlhLCBVU0EgICogIFJGQyA0 NjQ1ICAqICBVVE4gIzE0Cj4gaHR0cDovL3d3dy5ld2VsbGljLm9yZwo+IGh0dHA6Ly93d3cxLmll dGYub3JnL2h0bWwuY2hhcnRlcnMvbHRydS1jaGFydGVyLmh0bWwKPiBodHRwOi8vd3d3LmFsdmVz dHJhbmQubm8vbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9pZXRmLWxhbmd1YWdlcyAgy4YKPgo+IF9fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fCj4gTHRydSBtYWlsaW5nIGxp c3QKPiBMdHJ1QGlldGYub3JnCj4gaHR0cDovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZv L2x0cnUKPgoKCl9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f Ckx0cnUgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0Ckx0cnVAaWV0Zi5vcmcKaHR0cDovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWls bWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL2x0cnUK From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Fri Feb 15 10:21:41 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16ADE3A6B4C; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 10:21:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.278 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.278 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.159, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qbBmvIXOzq3U; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 10:21:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E6543A6B92; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 10:21:36 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D894A3A694C for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 10:21:34 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 376zxrYjbJgl for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 10:21:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from elasmtp-scoter.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-scoter.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.67]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3BE328D213 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 10:19:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from [69.3.145.246] (helo=oemcomputer) by elasmtp-scoter.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1JQ5Ag-0001DR-4o for ltru@ietf.org; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 13:20:26 -0500 Message-ID: <005401c86fff$89afc2c0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> From: "Randy Presuhn" To: "LTRU Working Group" References: <20080215132900.GA30234@nic.fr> Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 10:21:08 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-ELNK-Trace: 4488c18417c9426da92b9037bc8bcf44d4c20f6b8d69d8885d2a9c731cc891175b8f4ca5ead7354792971399f854a052350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 69.3.145.246 Subject: Re: [Ltru] Meeting in Philadelphia for IETF 71? X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Hi - > From: "Stephane Bortzmeyer" > To: "LTRU Working Group" > Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 5:29 AM > Subject: [Ltru] Meeting in Philadelphia for IETF 71? > > Apparently, we did not discuss the need for a face-to-face meeting in > Philadelphia for IETF 71? Deadline is long past. There were no requests to hold a meeting, so the co-chairs did not schedule one. > I wonder if it would be a good idea to meet in order to discuss a > future possible rechartering for incorporation of ISO 639-5 and ISO > 639-6 (which seem close to completion, no?) My sincere hope is that we can wrap up this working group as soon as we complete our two current deliverables. Randy _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Fri Feb 15 11:01:10 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E192B28D0F4; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 11:01:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.652 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.652 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.215, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id C4nS2xflJvPA; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 11:01:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34FD93A6B5C; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 11:01:10 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED8123A69AB for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 11:01:08 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3jpY+C5C92qs for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 11:01:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from ch-smtp01.sth.basefarm.net (ch-smtp01.sth.basefarm.net [80.76.149.212]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6AA8F3A6B5C for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 11:01:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from c83-248-86-24.bredband.comhem.se ([83.248.86.24]:1624 helo=wgbgkka02x) by ch-smtp01.sth.basefarm.net with esmtp (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1JQ5pG-0004hN-59; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 20:02:22 +0100 From: "Kent Karlsson" To: "'Randy Presuhn'" , "'LTRU Working Group'" References: <003801c86f99$bf090d20$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> <003601c86ffa$d715dae0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 20:02:16 +0100 Message-ID: <003d01c87005$4b3ebf90$1856f853@streamserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <003601c86ffa$d715dae0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> Thread-Index: Achv+vJw1YtcxrkJS16jEVsr0RYG/QAB20uA X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 X-Originating-IP: 83.248.86.24 X-Scan-Result: No virus found in message 1JQ5pG-0004hN-59. X-Scan-Signature: ch-smtp01.sth.basefarm.net 1JQ5pG-0004hN-59 8c8312f73a3851d9634988aa8e0f3ec2 Subject: Re: [Ltru] Proposed edit MD12 (davis) X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Randy Presuhn wrote: > One of the reasons for the subtag registry was to provide a measure > of insulation from possible instabilities in the sources of the codes. > I think the example makes the wrong suppositions. If a "UX" > (referring > to and effectively synonymous with the former "US") shows up, "en-US" > should remain the canonical form. To have a formerly canonical tag > change over time sounds like a very bad thing. I'm also concerned > that if the WG is willing to make such a radical change in > its attitude > toward language tag stability during working group last call, that we > may be sent back to square one. > > In short, I oppose removing the prohibition on removing > Preferred-Value or > Deprecated fields if that is going to be understood as > permitting changes > to the canonical form of a tag. But currently there is no requirement that the canonical form of a language tag is stable in it's canonicalness. There is just a requirement that Preferred-value cannot be removed or changed, which does not guarantee stability of the "canonical" language tag as canonical (it is stable per se, but it's status as canonical is not), since a "Preferred-Value" can be added to a registry entry after the entry per se is added (which is why we are having this whole discussion on this issue). /kent k _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Fri Feb 15 11:04:29 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCF6428C95F; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 11:04:29 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.862 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.862 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.323, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, HTML_MESSAGE=1, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id x8P5Q+oHFVkI; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 11:04:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 700EF3A6B85; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 11:04:28 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A01E3A6B77 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 11:04:27 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ehYVxQcgFsF3 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 11:04:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from wf-out-1314.google.com (wf-out-1314.google.com [209.85.200.170]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60BE13A6B93 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 11:04:26 -0800 (PST) Received: by wf-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 25so122161wfa.31 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 11:05:47 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.142.171.6 with SMTP id t6mr2571525wfe.150.1203102346989; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 11:05:46 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.143.174.8 with HTTP; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 11:05:46 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <30b660a20802151105h7e48f205paccaf8b6a6973ae2@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 11:05:46 -0800 From: "Mark Davis" To: "Randy Presuhn" In-Reply-To: <003601c86ffa$d715dae0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <003801c86f99$bf090d20$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> <003601c86ffa$d715dae0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 109bde19352d28f9 Cc: LTRU Working Group Subject: Re: [Ltru] Proposed edit MD12 (davis) X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: 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tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.142, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4VmMCRnQFSUi; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 11:22:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB0493A6B8C; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 11:22:19 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3825E3A6B38 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 11:22:19 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cgBR8KO-gdUw for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 11:22:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.68]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 728273A694C for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 11:22:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from [69.3.145.246] (helo=oemcomputer) by elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1JQ69q-0003kz-Nm for ltru@ietf.org; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 14:23:38 -0500 Message-ID: <008d01c87008$5e6b51c0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> From: "Randy Presuhn" To: "LTRU Working Group" References: <003801c86f99$bf090d20$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> <003601c86ffa$d715dae0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> <30b660a20802151105h7e48f205paccaf8b6a6973ae2@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 11:24:21 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-ELNK-Trace: 4488c18417c9426da92b9037bc8bcf44d4c20f6b8d69d8885d2a9c731cc891176402873e6635b074e178e4bb555bd01a350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 69.3.145.246 Subject: Re: [Ltru] Proposed edit MD12 (davis) X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Hi - Let's get back to the actual text proposed in this thread: > If the value of a Preferred-Value is not canonical (such as when it is > a tag or contains a subtag that itself has a Preferred-Value), then > a Comment SHOULD be added to the record to that effect. For example: > > Preferred-Value: zh-hakka > Comment: The canonical form of "zh-hakka" is "hak". The technical change is to recommend the inclusion of a comment in the registry under specific circumstances. As a technical contributor, I find this perfectly reasonable, and that it has no adverse interoperability consequences for users of the registry. As co-chair: If the other messages in this thread are intended to suggest that we do something else, then please start new threads with appropriate subject lines and with the exact text for whatever is being proposed. Randy _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Fri Feb 15 11:36:05 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BAF428D322; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 11:36:05 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 3.767 X-Spam-Level: *** X-Spam-Status: No, score=3.767 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-3.881, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, FRT_GUARANTEE1=4.533, FUZZY_GUARANTEE=1.252, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, MANGLED_GRNTEE=2.3, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id suAh8-3odCAI; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 11:36:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BAE23A6AE0; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 11:36:04 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A746A3A6AA7 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 11:36:02 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id G6Dy6-PkhMZ9 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 11:36:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.65]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D523A3A6AEC for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 11:36:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from [69.3.145.246] (helo=oemcomputer) by elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1JQ6N3-0004AB-0m for ltru@ietf.org; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 14:37:17 -0500 Message-ID: <009901c8700a$431cbd80$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> From: "Randy Presuhn" To: References: Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 11:37:49 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-ELNK-Trace: 4488c18417c9426da92b9037bc8bcf44d4c20f6b8d69d8885d2a9c731cc891171ee965934a12834ee8a5592c8f75b794350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 69.3.145.246 Subject: Re: [Ltru] Editorial Comments Only--RFC4646bis-11 X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Hi - As a technical contributor... > From: "CE Whitehead" > To: > Cc: ; > Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 10:55 AM > Subject: Editorial Comments Only--RFC4646bis-11 ... > * * *p.3, Section 1, PAR 2COMMENT: You might want to add here a brief > note saying that language tags do not facilitate/gurarantee proper > document display; you need to declare the character encoding if > you want to insure correct display of the characters/text in a > document. (Also pp. 10-11, Section 2.2.3:COMMENT: Again, > perhaps it might be mentioned that the encoding is what needs to be > declared to get text display right, not the script???) Actually, there are cases where knowing the language permits better rendering of the data. For example, there are a few ideographs which one might choose to render differently depending on whether the language is Chinese or Japanese. Opinions about the significance of such cases vary. In any case, knowing the encoding is pretty obviously fundamental, at the level of "it goes without saying." > * * *p.10., Section 2.2.2: > "2.2.2. Extended Language Subtags "Extended language subtags > are permanently reserved. They MUST NOT be registered or used > to form language tags (except in grandfathered tags). They were > originally created to allow for certain kinds of compatibility mappings > which ultimately were not used." COMMENT: Insert (for clarity) a > reference to the other draft?? ... A reference to an i-d would not make sense here. At best, it would be a reference to RFC 4646, which would be rather self-evident. Randy _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Fri Feb 15 12:20:13 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44CD43A6806; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 12:20:13 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.656 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.656 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.219, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id U-gZ-RFgoiSx; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 12:20:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DE7C3A6B60; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 12:20:11 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D89093A6ABA for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 12:20:09 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yrhqzsURAip9 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 12:20:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from ch-smtp01.sth.basefarm.net (ch-smtp01.sth.basefarm.net [80.76.149.212]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B36428C1E9 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 12:19:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from c83-248-86-24.bredband.comhem.se ([83.248.86.24]:1868 helo=wgbgkka02x) by ch-smtp01.sth.basefarm.net with esmtp (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1JQ737-0003hh-51; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 21:20:46 +0100 From: "Kent Karlsson" To: "'Randy Presuhn'" , "'LTRU Working Group'" References: <003801c86f99$bf090d20$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81><003601c86ffa$d715dae0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer><30b660a20802151105h7e48f205paccaf8b6a6973ae2@mail.gmail.com> <008d01c87008$5e6b51c0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 21:20:44 +0100 Message-ID: <004f01c87010$3e84b010$1856f853@streamserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <008d01c87008$5e6b51c0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> Thread-Index: AchwCEiXgaFsz0eXQeyQoseVfqCcHwABr03g X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 X-Originating-IP: 83.248.86.24 X-Scan-Result: No virus found in message 1JQ737-0003hh-51. X-Scan-Signature: ch-smtp01.sth.basefarm.net 1JQ737-0003hh-51 8c5c83b17e58f1ef894cf08311f4c863 Subject: Re: [Ltru] Proposed edit MD12 (davis) X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Randy Presuhn wrote: > Let's get back to the actual text proposed in this thread: > > > If the value of a Preferred-Value is not canonical (such as when it is > > a tag or contains a subtag that itself has a Preferred-Value), then > > a Comment SHOULD be added to the record to that effect. For example: > > > > Preferred-Value: zh-hakka > > Comment: The canonical form of "zh-hakka" is "hak". > > The technical change is to recommend the inclusion of a comment > in the registry under specific circumstances. As a technical > contributor, I find this perfectly reasonable, and that it has > no adverse interoperability consequences for users of the registry. I think that NOT short-circuiting: Preferred-Value: zh-hakka Comment: The canonical form of "zh-hakka" is "hak". to (if there actually is a preferred value line 'hak' for 'zh-hakka') Preferred-Value: hak DOES have interoperability consequences for users of the registry. Reason: that short-circuiting is unlikely, at least for now, to be done by implementations ("users of the registry"). And it would surely be a service to users of the registry for the *maintainers* to do that short-circuiting, rather than require all users of the registry to do it. > As co-chair: > If the other messages in this thread are intended to suggest that we > do something else, then please start new threads with appropriate > subject lines and with the exact text for whatever is being proposed. I will look into that over the weekend. /kent k _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Fri Feb 15 15:26:21 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 622313A6BD6; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 15:26:21 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.493 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.493 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.056, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hRR794Lwv4WQ; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 15:26:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A70F3A6A01; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 15:26:19 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 999BA3A6A01 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 15:26:17 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id c3kPQNVb4xCF for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 15:26:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.microsoft.com (mailc.microsoft.com [131.107.115.214]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C5A53A67B3 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 15:26:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from tk1-exhub-c101.redmond.corp.microsoft.com (157.56.116.111) by TK5-EXGWY-E803.partners.extranet.microsoft.com (10.251.56.169) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.1.240.5; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 15:27:35 -0800 Received: from NA-EXMSG-C117.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.62.46]) by tk1-exhub-c101.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.56.116.111]) with mapi; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 15:27:35 -0800 From: Peter Constable To: LTRU Working Group Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 15:27:34 -0800 Thread-Topic: [Ltru] Proposed edit MD12 (davis) Thread-Index: Achv+vDWtaZd0Xq0S82Et3MoaMUcVQALqeiQ Message-ID: References: <003801c86f99$bf090d20$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> <003601c86ffa$d715dae0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> In-Reply-To: <003601c86ffa$d715dae0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [Ltru] Proposed edit MD12 (davis) X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org > From: ltru-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ltru-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > Randy Presuhn > In short, I oppose removing the prohibition on removing Preferred-Value > or > Deprecated fields if that is going to be understood as permitting > changes > to the canonical form of a tag. Might it be better to specify requirements on the desired result -- don't change canonical form of tag -- rather than on what might be secondary issues -- the content of Preferred-Value and Deprecated fields? Peter _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Fri Feb 15 16:04:20 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4B9D3A6805; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 16:04:20 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.036 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.036 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.149, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, HTML_MESSAGE=1, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XrxqVviVKANN; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 16:04:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CEBBA3A6877; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 16:04:19 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62DC33A68CB for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 16:04:18 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id V69k12HBjplw for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 16:04:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from wx-out-0506.google.com (wx-out-0506.google.com [66.249.82.228]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 444163A6877 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 16:03:49 -0800 (PST) Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id s8so920678wxc.31 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 16:05:09 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.142.188.4 with SMTP id l4mr2800134wff.151.1203120308126; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 16:05:08 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.143.174.8 with HTTP; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 16:05:07 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <30b660a20802151605v5bb2c0d7xf4b9cf1ab5faf65b@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 16:05:07 -0800 From: "Mark Davis" To: "Peter Constable" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <003801c86f99$bf090d20$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> <003601c86ffa$d715dae0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 768692ae29d4315b Cc: LTRU Working Group Subject: Re: [Ltru] Proposed edit MD12 (davis) X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1409788530==" Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org --===============1409788530== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_59_23797481.1203120308046" ------=_Part_59_23797481.1203120308046 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline You may have missed a previous message. The purpose of canonicalization is to put the language tag into the latest-and-greatest form. *It is not restricted by stability, nor has it ever been. *The implications of your proposed change would be that one MUST NOT ever add a Preferred-Value once a subtag has been added. So we couldn't reflect any change of any 3166 code, for example. This would be a major, breaking technical change, with many unforeseen consequences. And I'm firmly opposed to it. If people really want an additional "stablized canonical form", that is a different beast. But it is too late in the process to add that either -- it would require data and apparatus that we don't have. Mark On Feb 15, 2008 3:27 PM, Peter Constable wrote: > > From: ltru-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ltru-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > > Randy Presuhn > > > > In short, I oppose removing the prohibition on removing Preferred-Value > > or > > Deprecated fields if that is going to be understood as permitting > > changes > > to the canonical form of a tag. > > Might it be better to specify requirements on the desired result -- don't > change canonical form of tag -- rather than on what might be secondary > issues -- the content of Preferred-Value and Deprecated fields? > > > Peter > _______________________________________________ > Ltru mailing list > Ltru@ietf.org > http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru > -- Mark ------=_Part_59_23797481.1203120308046 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline You may have missed a previous message.

The purpose of canonicalization is to put the language tag into the latest-and-greatest form. It is not restricted by stability, nor has it ever been. The implications of your proposed change would be that one MUST NOT ever add a Preferred-Value once a subtag has been added. So we couldn't reflect any change of any 3166 code, for example.

This would be a major, breaking technical change, with many unforeseen consequences. And I'm firmly opposed to it.

If people really want an additional "stablized canonical form", that is a different beast. But it is too late in the process to add that either -- it would require data and apparatus that we don't have.

Mark

On Feb 15, 2008 3:27 PM, Peter Constable <petercon@microsoft.com> wrote:
> From: ltru-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ltru-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
> Randy Presuhn


> In short, I oppose removing the prohibition on removing Preferred-Value
> or
> Deprecated fields if that is going to be understood as permitting
> changes
> to the canonical form of a tag.

Might it be better to specify requirements on the desired result -- don't change canonical form of tag -- rather than on what might be secondary issues -- the content of Preferred-Value and Deprecated fields?


Peter
_______________________________________________
Ltru mailing list
Ltru@ietf.org
http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru



--
Mark ------=_Part_59_23797481.1203120308046-- --===============1409788530== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru --===============1409788530==-- From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Fri Feb 15 16:15:25 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45B0928C168; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 16:15:25 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.206 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.206 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.231, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0ynjwlKsrNNt; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 16:15:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDA503A688F; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 16:15:23 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC61B28C168 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 16:15:21 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DAzQbvcMUPxy for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 16:15:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3BC53A688F for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 16:15:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from [69.3.145.246] (helo=oemcomputer) by elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1JQAjR-0002OH-8a for ltru@ietf.org; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 19:16:41 -0500 Message-ID: <005401c87031$4f038bc0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> From: "Randy Presuhn" To: "LTRU Working Group" References: <003801c86f99$bf090d20$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81><003601c86ffa$d715dae0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> <30b660a20802151605v5bb2c0d7xf4b9cf1ab5faf65b@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 16:17:25 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-ELNK-Trace: 4488c18417c9426da92b9037bc8bcf44d4c20f6b8d69d8885d2a9c731cc89117410b7b7d4e0283aebf40dcb39801d3d0350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 69.3.145.246 Subject: Re: [Ltru] Proposed edit MD12 (davis) X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Hi - > From: "Mark Davis" > To: "Peter Constable" > Cc: "LTRU Working Group" > Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 4:05 PM > Subject: Re: [Ltru] Proposed edit MD12 (davis) > > You may have missed a previous message. > > The purpose of canonicalization is to put the language tag into the > latest-and-greatest form. *It is not restricted by stability, nor has it > ever been. *The implications of your proposed change would be that one MUST > NOT ever add a Preferred-Value once a subtag has been added. So we couldn't > reflect any change of any 3166 code, for example. > > This would be a major, breaking technical change, with many unforeseen > consequences. And I'm firmly opposed to it. > > If people really want an additional "stablized canonical form", that is a > different beast. But it is too late in the process to add that either -- it > would require data and apparatus that we don't have. It sounds like it's time to start a different thread. The change proposed in *this* thread was to recommend adding a comment regarding the canonical form under certain circumstances. Do we or do we not have agreement regarding *that* proposal? If someone seriously wants to make other changes, please start new threads with appropriate subject lines and specific text. Randy as ltru co-chair _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Fri Feb 15 16:37:47 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1EA333A6A68; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 16:37:47 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.49 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.49 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.053, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gqpNzLywZJaS; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 16:37:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CD5E3A6877; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 16:37:46 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5571F3A67B3 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 16:37:44 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id k-u-9eYQgZ56 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 16:37:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from earth.ccil.org (earth.ccil.org [192.190.237.11]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72D333A6877 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 16:37:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from cowan by earth.ccil.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1JQB55-0003W1-AI for ltru@ietf.org; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 19:39:03 -0500 Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 19:39:03 -0500 To: ltru@ietf.org Message-ID: <20080216003903.GA5695@mercury.ccil.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11) From: John Cowan Subject: [Ltru] Updating Preferred-Value: field X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org I propose the following change to the penultimate paragraph of 4646bis, Editor's Draft, Section 3.1.6: Original text: The field 'Preferred-Value' MUST NOT be modified once created in the registry. The field MAY be added to records according to the rules in Section 3.3 (Maintenance of the Registry). Proposed revised text: The field 'Preferred-Value' MUST not be removed from a record. If the subtag described by the record becomes deprecated, this field MAY be added according to the rules in Section 3.3. In that case, any records which refer to this one through their own 'Preferred-Value' fields are updated to refer to the new preferred value, so that it is not necessary to navigate from a deprecated subtag via another deprecated subtag to reach a preferred subtag. Discussion: This is a substantive change which bites the bullet directly and allows update of the 'Preferred-Value' field so that it at all times refers to the value which is in fact preferred. -- A rose by any other name John Cowan may smell as sweet, http://www.ccil.org/~cowan but if you called it an onion cowan@ccil.org you'd get cooks very confused. --RMS _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Fri Feb 15 16:39:20 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 839B93A6BB0; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 16:39:20 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.509 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.509 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.072, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kIcdBTUxrzbZ; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 16:39:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87D3D3A6A68; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 16:39:19 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 550D83A684B for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 16:39:18 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zO7TySgVsvri for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 16:39:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from earth.ccil.org (earth.ccil.org [192.190.237.11]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DEC523A6AA7 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 16:38:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from cowan by earth.ccil.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1JQB6B-0003ee-Ok; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 19:40:11 -0500 Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 19:40:11 -0500 To: Randy Presuhn Message-ID: <20080216004011.GB5695@mercury.ccil.org> References: <30b660a20802151605v5bb2c0d7xf4b9cf1ab5faf65b@mail.gmail.com> <005401c87031$4f038bc0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <005401c87031$4f038bc0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11) From: John Cowan Cc: LTRU Working Group Subject: Re: [Ltru] Proposed edit MD12 (davis) X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Randy Presuhn scripsit: > It sounds like it's time to start a different thread. The change > proposed in *this* thread was to recommend adding a comment > regarding the canonical form under certain circumstances. > Do we or do we not have agreement regarding *that* proposal? I am opposed to the idea of adding such a comment, as I do not believe the contents of Comment fields should be part of the algorithms of BCP 47. > If someone seriously wants to make other changes, please start > new threads with appropriate subject lines and specific text. I have just proposed actual text for the update option. -- It was impossible to inveigle John Cowan Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel http://www.ccil.org/~cowan Into offering the slightest apology For his Phenomenology. --W. H. Auden, from "People" (1953) _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Fri Feb 15 16:46:24 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B059128C30C; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 16:46:24 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.523 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.523 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.086, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fYMYGSe0Ue0Z; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 16:46:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E453328C355; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 16:46:23 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CEAC3A6785 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 16:46:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8DCz84uGuZJe for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 16:46:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from earth.ccil.org (earth.ccil.org [192.190.237.11]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC5B828C443 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 16:44:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from cowan by earth.ccil.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1JQBBm-00042q-Gn; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 19:45:58 -0500 Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 19:45:58 -0500 To: John Cowan Message-ID: <20080216004558.GC5695@mercury.ccil.org> References: <20080216003903.GA5695@mercury.ccil.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20080216003903.GA5695@mercury.ccil.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11) From: John Cowan Cc: ltru@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Ltru] Updating Preferred-Value: field X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org John Cowan scripsit: > Proposed revised text: > > The field 'Preferred-Value' MUST not be removed from a record. If the > subtag described by the record becomes deprecated, this field MAY be > added according to the rules in Section 3.3. In that case, any records > which refer to this one through their own 'Preferred-Value' fields are > updated to refer to the new preferred value, so that it is not necessary > to navigate from a deprecated subtag via another deprecated subtag to > reach a preferred subtag. Oops. s/are updated/MUST be updated -- Even a refrigerator can conform to the XML John Cowan Infoset, as long as it has a door sticker cowan@ccil.org saying "No information items inside". http://www.ccil.org/~cowan --Eve Maler _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Fri Feb 15 16:52:42 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 257EC3A67B3; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 16:52:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.444 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.444 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.259, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, HTML_MESSAGE=1, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZAP85pwX-+5D; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 16:52:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C8903A682F; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 16:52:41 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72D8B3A682F for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 16:52:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id M7zz7GLSq+1g for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 16:52:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from py-out-1112.google.com (py-out-1112.google.com [64.233.166.181]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBEF43A67B3 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 16:52:38 -0800 (PST) Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id x19so1388441pyg.24 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 16:53:58 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.143.34.11 with SMTP id m11mr2808160wfj.222.1203123236974; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 16:53:56 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.143.174.8 with HTTP; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 16:53:56 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <30b660a20802151653r1c532bf7gdc27eb3f449ba001@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 16:53:56 -0800 From: "Mark Davis" To: "John Cowan" In-Reply-To: <20080216003903.GA5695@mercury.ccil.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20080216003903.GA5695@mercury.ccil.org> X-Google-Sender-Auth: be25497b1db8385f Cc: ltru@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Ltru] Updating Preferred-Value: field X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1465265918==" Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org --===============1465265918== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_161_22816074.1203123236946" ------=_Part_161_22816074.1203123236946 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I agree with the intent, or at least some of it. However, 1. It doesn't fix the case I cited, of BU -> MM -> BU. So I would not be in agreement with the text as given. If we were going to do this, we should do it completely. 2. The instructions as to what to do to the registry to *other *tags when a given Preferred-Value is added or changed probably belong in http://www.inter-locale.com/ID/draft-ietf-ltru-4646bis-11.html#registrationProc 3. Other parts of the text would need to be touched for consistency, like http://www.inter-locale.com/ID/draft-ietf-ltru-4646bis-11.html#ianastability Mark On Feb 15, 2008 4:39 PM, John Cowan wrote: > I propose the following change to the penultimate paragraph of 4646bis, > Editor's Draft, Section 3.1.6: > > Original text: > > The field 'Preferred-Value' MUST NOT be modified once created in the > registry. The field MAY be added to records according to the rules in > Section 3.3 (Maintenance of the Registry). > > Proposed revised text: > > The field 'Preferred-Value' MUST not be removed from a record. If the > subtag described by the record becomes deprecated, this field MAY be > added according to the rules in Section 3.3. In that case, any records > which refer to this one through their own 'Preferred-Value' fields are > updated to refer to the new preferred value, so that it is not necessary > to navigate from a deprecated subtag via another deprecated subtag to > reach a preferred subtag. > > Discussion: > > This is a substantive change which bites the bullet directly and allows > update of the 'Preferred-Value' field so that it at all times refers to > the value which is in fact preferred. > > -- > A rose by any other name John Cowan > may smell as sweet, > http://www.ccil.org/~cowan > but if you called it an onion cowan@ccil.org > you'd get cooks very confused. --RMS > _______________________________________________ > Ltru mailing list > Ltru@ietf.org > http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru > -- Mark ------=_Part_161_22816074.1203123236946 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I agree with the intent, or at least some of it. However,
  1. It doesn't fix the case I cited, of BU -> MM -> BU. So I would not be in agreement with the text as given. If we were going to do this, we should do it completely.
  2. The instructions as to what to do to the registry to other tags when a given Preferred-Value is added or changed probably belong in http://www.inter-locale.com/ID/draft-ietf-ltru-4646bis-11.html#registrationProc
  3. Other parts of the text would need to be touched for consistency, like http://www.inter-locale.com/ID/draft-ietf-ltru-4646bis-11.html#ianastability
Mark

On Feb 15, 2008 4:39 PM, John Cowan <cowan@ccil.org> wrote:
I propose the following change to the penultimate paragraph of 4646bis,
Editor's Draft, Section 3.1.6:

Original text:

The field 'Preferred-Value' MUST NOT be modified once created in the
registry. The field MAY be added to records according to the rules in
Section 3.3 (Maintenance of the Registry).

Proposed revised text:

The field 'Preferred-Value' MUST not be removed from a record.  If the
subtag described by the record becomes deprecated, this field MAY be
added according to the rules in Section 3.3.  In that case, any records
which refer to this one through their own 'Preferred-Value' fields are
updated to refer to the new preferred value, so that it is not necessary
to navigate from a deprecated subtag via another deprecated subtag to
reach a preferred subtag.

Discussion:

This is a substantive change which bites the bullet directly and allows
update of the 'Preferred-Value' field so that it at all times refers to
the value which is in fact preferred.

--
A rose by any other name                            John Cowan
may smell as sweet,                                 http://www.ccil.org/~cowan
but if you called it an onion                       cowan@ccil.org
you'd get cooks very confused.          --RMS
_______________________________________________
Ltru mailing list
Ltru@ietf.org
http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru



--
Mark ------=_Part_161_22816074.1203123236946-- --===============1465265918== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru --===============1465265918==-- From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Fri Feb 15 16:55:08 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B42BB3A6AA7; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 16:55:08 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.218 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.218 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.219, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xQNBX50PykL9; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 16:55:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61B5D28C29A; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 16:55:07 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FC7228C2F9 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 16:55:05 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id u4wEs0rWM1qu for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 16:55:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.63]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C65A28C2AD for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 16:55:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from [69.3.145.93] (helo=oemcomputer) by elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1JQBLs-0007JR-ET for ltru@ietf.org; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 19:56:24 -0500 Message-ID: <008401c87036$db96d7e0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> From: "Randy Presuhn" To: References: <20080216003903.GA5695@mercury.ccil.org> Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 16:57:08 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-ELNK-Trace: 4488c18417c9426da92b9037bc8bcf44d4c20f6b8d69d8885d2a9c731cc89117f62b396a988c483b6313d2129453dd6a350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 69.3.145.93 Subject: Re: [Ltru] Updating Preferred-Value: field X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Hi - > From: "John Cowan" > To: > Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 4:39 PM > Subject: [Ltru] Updating Preferred-Value: field > > I propose the following change to the penultimate paragraph of 4646bis, > Editor's Draft, Section 3.1.6: > > Original text: > > The field 'Preferred-Value' MUST NOT be modified once created in the > registry. The field MAY be added to records according to the rules in > Section 3.3 (Maintenance of the Registry). > > Proposed revised text: > > The field 'Preferred-Value' MUST not be removed from a record. If the > subtag described by the record becomes deprecated, this field MAY be > added according to the rules in Section 3.3. In that case, any records > which refer to this one through their own 'Preferred-Value' fields are > updated to refer to the new preferred value, so that it is not necessary > to navigate from a deprecated subtag via another deprecated subtag to > reach a preferred subtag. > > Discussion: > > This is a substantive change which bites the bullet directly and allows > update of the 'Preferred-Value' field so that it at all times refers to > the value which is in fact preferred. ... As a technical contributor, I have no objection to this proposal. (Though some might trip over the optionality implied by "MAY" - more robust would be "If the subtag described by the record becomes deprecated and there is a replacement mapping, this field MUST be added according to the rules in Section 3.3. ") An existing application which recursively follows "Preferred-Value" fields through the registry would still work correctly if this change is made. The additional effort impacts only the registry maintainers (i.e., ietf-languages@iana.org). Consequently, the technical impact of this change is minimal. Randy _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Fri Feb 15 17:00:34 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BB7428C753; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 17:00:34 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.231 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.231 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.206, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id S88irAx04JWm; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 17:00:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B3513A6BD3; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 17:00:33 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF12828C30C for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 17:00:32 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id of0+sTSI6-aA for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 17:00:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 315EB3A6BD3 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 17:00:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from [69.3.145.93] (helo=oemcomputer) by elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1JQBR9-0002jA-BR for ltru@ietf.org; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 20:01:51 -0500 Message-ID: <00a301c87037$9e9c1340$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> From: "Randy Presuhn" To: References: <20080216003903.GA5695@mercury.ccil.org> <30b660a20802151653r1c532bf7gdc27eb3f449ba001@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 17:02:35 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-ELNK-Trace: 4488c18417c9426da92b9037bc8bcf44d4c20f6b8d69d8885d2a9c731cc89117fee210362ad8637c8b0aa60d9bae4763350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 69.3.145.93 Subject: Re: [Ltru] Updating Preferred-Value: field X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Hi - As a technical contributor... > From: "Mark Davis" > To: "John Cowan" > Cc: > Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 4:53 PM > Subject: Re: [Ltru] Updating Preferred-Value: field > > I agree with the intent, or at least some of it. However, > > 1. It doesn't fix the case I cited, of BU -> MM -> BU. So I would not > be in agreement with the text as given. If we were going to do this, we > should do it completely. ... I disagree. I think changing the preferred form from BU to MM to BU would be a very bad thing to do if BU and MM and BU refer to essentially the same thing for purposes of tagging. Randy _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Fri Feb 15 17:09:49 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23A183A6C06; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 17:09:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.537 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.537 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.100, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ytlVGCi0+3Gw; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 17:09:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49F133A682F; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 17:09:48 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 420B73A68CB for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 17:09:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ttAwKs-bS3AW for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 17:09:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from earth.ccil.org (earth.ccil.org [192.190.237.11]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F7C63A67B3 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 17:08:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from cowan by earth.ccil.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1JQBZ9-0005ti-PW; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 20:10:07 -0500 Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 20:10:07 -0500 To: Mark Davis Message-ID: <20080216011007.GD5695@mercury.ccil.org> References: <20080216003903.GA5695@mercury.ccil.org> <30b660a20802151653r1c532bf7gdc27eb3f449ba001@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <30b660a20802151653r1c532bf7gdc27eb3f449ba001@mail.gmail.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11) From: John Cowan Cc: ltru@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Ltru] Updating Preferred-Value: field X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Mark Davis scripsit: > 1. It doesn't fix the case I cited, of BU -> MM -> BU. So I would not > be in agreement with the text as given. If we were going to do this, we > should do it completely. That would be the time, IMHO, to use the 3-digit M.49 code. > 2. The instructions as to what to do to the registry to *other *tags > when a given Preferred-Value is added or changed probably belong in > http://www.inter-locale.com/ID/draft-ietf-ltru-4646bis-11.html#registrationProc > 3. Other parts of the text would need to be touched for consistency, > like > http://www.inter-locale.com/ID/draft-ietf-ltru-4646bis-11.html#ianastability Can you propose text? -- Is a chair finely made tragic or comic? Is the John Cowan portrait of Mona Lisa good if I desire to see cowan@ccil.org it? Is the bust of Sir Philip Crampton lyrical, http://ccil.org/~cowan epical or dramatic? If a man hacking in fury at a block of wood make there an image of a cow, is that image a work of art? If not, why not? --Stephen Dedalus _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Fri Feb 15 19:06:22 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC9EB3A6C03; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 19:06:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.39 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.39 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.205, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, HTML_MESSAGE=1, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XCdodWE3oWB6; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 19:06:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC9903A697D; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 19:06:20 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A99753A6A61 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 19:06:18 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id isPmXqdAR+5L for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 19:06:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from py-out-1112.google.com (py-out-1112.google.com [64.233.166.182]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 892093A6BB7 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 19:04:06 -0800 (PST) Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id x19so1439320pyg.24 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 19:05:27 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.142.140.14 with SMTP id n14mr2869019wfd.192.1203131126533; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 19:05:26 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.143.174.8 with HTTP; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 19:05:26 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <30b660a20802151905v79ad7460yd91bfc0702dc21b4@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 19:05:26 -0800 From: "Mark Davis" To: "Randy Presuhn" In-Reply-To: <00a301c87037$9e9c1340$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20080216003903.GA5695@mercury.ccil.org> <30b660a20802151653r1c532bf7gdc27eb3f449ba001@mail.gmail.com> <00a301c87037$9e9c1340$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> X-Google-Sender-Auth: f81ade900b70de87 Cc: ltru@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Ltru] Updating Preferred-Value: field X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1739343513==" Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org --===============1739343513== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_399_22975348.1203131126531" ------=_Part_399_22975348.1203131126531 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Let me spell this out more. The same country (UN code = 100) has already had two ISO names: BU already changed name to MM. That is already done, in the past. So UN:100 corresponds to two ISO names: BU and MM, with BU deprecated, and MM preferred. So we have two tags for the same thing: my-BU and *my-MM* (with the preferred one bold). Now suppose that in 2011, ISO changes the name of UN:100 back to BU. That is certainly a possibility. At that point we are obliged to deprecate MM. We have two choices. 1. Use the UN number, so we now have *three* tags that mean the same thing: my-BU, my-MM, and *my-100* 2. Use the former BU, so we still have only two valid tags: *my-BU*and my-MM. Option #2 is, in my opinion, much cleaner and more understandable. It is bizarre in #1 to add yet another code, when BU is exactly the same country, *and* the preferred ISO code. We should only use the UN code if we have to, to avoid a collision. But this is *not* a collision -- they are different codes for the same entity. Mark On Feb 15, 2008 5:02 PM, Randy Presuhn wrote: > Hi - > > As a technical contributor... > > > From: "Mark Davis" > > To: "John Cowan" > > Cc: > > Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 4:53 PM > > Subject: Re: [Ltru] Updating Preferred-Value: field > > > > > I agree with the intent, or at least some of it. However, > > > > 1. It doesn't fix the case I cited, of BU -> MM -> BU. So I would not > > be in agreement with the text as given. If we were going to do this, > we > > should do it completely. > ... > > I disagree. I think changing the preferred form from BU to MM to BU would > be a very bad thing to do if BU and MM and BU refer to essentially the > same > thing for purposes of tagging. > > Randy > > _______________________________________________ > Ltru mailing list > Ltru@ietf.org > http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru > -- Mark ------=_Part_399_22975348.1203131126531 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Let me spell this out more.

The same country (UN code = 100) has already had two ISO names: BU already changed name to MM. That is already done, in the past. So UN:100 corresponds to two ISO names: BU and MM, with BU deprecated, and MM preferred.

So we have two tags for the same thing: my-BU and my-MM (with the preferred one bold).

Now suppose that in 2011, ISO changes the name of UN:100 back to BU. That is certainly a possibility. At that point we are obliged to deprecate MM. We have two choices.
  1. Use the UN number, so we now have three tags that mean the same thing: my-BU, my-MM, and my-100
  2. Use the former BU, so we still have only two valid tags: my-BU and my-MM.
Option #2 is, in my opinion, much cleaner and more understandable. It is bizarre in #1 to add yet another code, when BU is exactly the same country, and the preferred ISO code. We should only use the UN code if we have to, to avoid a collision. But this is not a collision -- they are different codes for the same entity.

Mark

On Feb 15, 2008 5:02 PM, Randy Presuhn <randy_presuhn@mindspring.com> wrote:
Hi -

As a technical contributor...

> From: "Mark Davis" <mark.davis@icu-project.org>
> To: "John Cowan" <cowan@ccil.org>
> Cc: <ltru@ietf.org>
> Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 4:53 PM
> Subject: Re: [Ltru] Updating Preferred-Value: field
>

> I agree with the intent, or at least some of it. However,
>
>    1. It doesn't fix the case I cited, of BU -> MM -> BU. So I would not
>    be in agreement with the text as given. If we were going to do this, we
>    should do it completely.
...

I disagree.  I think changing the preferred form from BU to MM to BU would
be a very bad thing to do if BU and MM and BU refer to essentially the same
thing for purposes of tagging.

Randy

_______________________________________________
Ltru mailing list
Ltru@ietf.org
http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru



--
Mark ------=_Part_399_22975348.1203131126531-- --===============1739343513== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru --===============1739343513==-- From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Fri Feb 15 21:37:58 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F7273A67AC; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 21:37:58 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.059 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.059 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.123, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=0.619, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id P8qJqvxbn5qU; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 21:37:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 948E53A67E9; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 21:37:57 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 094DD3A67AC for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 21:37:56 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id f5ou-uMZpV0D for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 21:37:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.69]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 626F628C137 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 21:37:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from [64.105.35.55] (helo=oemcomputer) by elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1JQFkI-0003Gh-Kp for ltru@ietf.org; Sat, 16 Feb 2008 00:37:54 -0500 Message-ID: <000901c8705e$2f5b2bc0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> From: "Randy Presuhn" To: "LTRU Working Group" References: <20080216003903.GA5695@mercury.ccil.org> <30b660a20802151653r1c532bf7gdc27eb3f449ba001@mail.gmail.com> <00a301c87037$9e9c1340$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> <30b660a20802151905v79ad7460yd91bfc0702dc21b4@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 21:38:37 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-ELNK-Trace: 4488c18417c9426da92b9037bc8bcf44d4c20f6b8d69d8885d2a9c731cc891177efeac8508186c177f1fc1107236dd09350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 64.105.35.55 Subject: Re: [Ltru] Updating Preferred-Value: field X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Hi - > From: "Mark Davis" > To: "Randy Presuhn" > Cc: > Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 7:05 PM > Subject: Re: [Ltru] Updating Preferred-Value: field ... > Now suppose that in 2011, ISO changes the name of UN:100 back to BU. That is > certainly a possibility. At that point we are obliged to deprecate MM. We > have two choices. ... WHY would we be *obliged* to deprecate MM in this scenario? Randy _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Fri Feb 15 22:10:47 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1FAA3A6872; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 22:10:47 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.566 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.566 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.129, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SBd3lBgGNrxn; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 22:10:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01B1A3A680E; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 22:10:47 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AAC83A680E for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 22:10:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XzwRYh6u5UJN for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 22:10:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from mta10.adelphia.net (mta10.adelphia.net [68.168.78.202]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F2C93A67B3 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 22:10:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from DGBP7M81 ([76.167.184.182]) by mta10.adelphia.net (InterMail vM.6.01.05.02 201-2131-123-102-20050715) with SMTP id <20080216061043.ZCK22143.mta10.adelphia.net@DGBP7M81> for ; Sat, 16 Feb 2008 01:10:43 -0500 Message-ID: <008901c87062$aa447c20$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> From: "Doug Ewell" To: "LTRU Working Group" References: Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 22:10:43 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 Subject: Re: [Ltru] Proposed edit MD12 (davis) X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Sm9obiBDb3dhbiA8Y293YW4gYXQgY2NpbCBkb3Qgb3JnPiB3cm90ZToKCj4+IEl0IHNvdW5kcyBs aWtlIGl0J3MgdGltZSB0byBzdGFydCBhIGRpZmZlcmVudCB0aHJlYWQuICBUaGUgY2hhbmdlIAo+ PiBwcm9wb3NlZCBpbiAqdGhpcyogdGhyZWFkIHdhcyB0byByZWNvbW1lbmQgYWRkaW5nIGEgY29t bWVudCByZWdhcmRpbmcgCj4+IHRoZSBjYW5vbmljYWwgZm9ybSB1bmRlciBjZXJ0YWluIGNpcmN1 bXN0YW5jZXMuIERvIHdlIG9yIGRvIHdlIG5vdCAKPj4gaGF2ZSBhZ3JlZW1lbnQgcmVnYXJkaW5n ICp0aGF0KiBwcm9wb3NhbD8KPgo+IEkgYW0gb3Bwb3NlZCB0byB0aGUgaWRlYSBvZiBhZGRpbmcg c3VjaCBhIGNvbW1lbnQsIGFzIEkgZG8gbm90IGJlbGlldmUgCj4gdGhlIGNvbnRlbnRzIG9mIENv bW1lbnQgZmllbGRzIHNob3VsZCBiZSBwYXJ0IG9mIHRoZSBhbGdvcml0aG1zIG9mIEJDUCAKPiA0 Ny4KCkFjdHVhbGx5LCB0aGUgcHJvcG9zZWQgY29tbWVudCB3b3VsZCBub3QgZm9ybSBwYXJ0IG9m IHRoZSBhbGdvcml0aG0uIApSYXRoZXIsIGl0IHdvdWxkIGhlbHAgcmVtaW5kIGltcGxlbWVudGVy cyBhbmQgdG91cmlzdHMgYWxpa2UgdGhhdCB0aGUgCmNvcnJlY3QgYWxnb3JpdGhtIGlzIHRvIGZv bGxvdyB0aGUgY2hhaW4gb2YgUHJlZmVycmVkLVZhbHVlcywgaW5zdGVhZCBvZiAKc3RvcHBpbmcg YWZ0ZXIgdGhlIGZpcnN0IG9uZS4KClRoYXQgc2FpZCwgSSB0b28gYW0gY29uY2VybmVkIGFib3V0 IHNwZWNpZnlpbmcgYWxnb3JpdGhtaWMgYmVoYXZpb3IgaW4gCkNvbW1lbnRzIGZpZWxkcy4gIFJl bWVtYmVyIHRoYXQgdGhlIGN1cnJlbnQgUmVnaXN0cnkgaGFzIGEgZ3JvdXAgb2YgCnJhdGhlciBp bmFuZSBDb21tZW50cyBmaWVsZHMgbGlrZSB0aGlzOgoKVHlwZTogZ3JhbmRmYXRoZXJlZApUYWc6 IGktbmF2YWpvCkRlc2NyaXB0aW9uOiBOYXZham8KQWRkZWQ6IDE5OTctMDktMTkKUHJlZmVycmVk LVZhbHVlOiBudgpEZXByZWNhdGVkOiAyMDAwLTAyLTE4CkNvbW1lbnRzOiByZXBsYWNlZCBieSBJ U08gY29kZSBudgoKU29tZSBwZW9wbGUgd2hvIGRvbid0IHVuZGVyc3RhbmQgdGhhdCB0aGUgQ29t bWVudHMgZmllbGQgaW4gdGhpcyBjYXNlIApzaW1wbHkgbWlycm9ycyB0aGUgUHJlZmVycmVkLVZh bHVlIGZpZWxkIG1pZ2h0IHRoaW5rIHRoZSBDb21tZW50cyBmaWVsZCAKaXMgbm9ybWF0aXZlLgoK SSB3b3VsZCBiZSBsZWVyeSBhYm91dCBhZGRpbmcgY29tbWVudHMgdGhhdCBwZW9wbGUgbWlnaHQg KnRoaW5rKiBmb3JtIApwYXJ0IG9mIHRoZSBhbGdvcml0aG0sIGFzIEpvaG4gZGlkLCBldmVuIGlm IHRoZXkgZG9uJ3QgcmVhbGx5LgoKSW4gYW55IGNhc2UsIGFueSBwcm9wb3NhbCBpbiA0NjQ2Ymlz IHRoYXQgaW1wb3NlcyBhIGNoYW5nZSBvbiB0aGUgCnVwZGF0ZWQgUmVnaXN0cnkgaW4gNDY0NWJp cyBzaG91bGQgYmUgY29uc2lkZXJlZCB0ZWNobmljYWwsIG5vdCAKZWRpdG9yaWFsLgoKLS0KRG91 ZyBFd2VsbCAgKiAgRnVsbGVydG9uLCBDYWxpZm9ybmlhLCBVU0EgICogIFJGQyA0NjQ1ICAqICBV VE4gIzE0Cmh0dHA6Ly93d3cuZXdlbGxpYy5vcmcKaHR0cDovL3d3dzEuaWV0Zi5vcmcvaHRtbC5j aGFydGVycy9sdHJ1LWNoYXJ0ZXIuaHRtbApodHRwOi8vd3d3LmFsdmVzdHJhbmQubm8vbWFpbG1h bi9saXN0aW5mby9pZXRmLWxhbmd1YWdlcyAgy4YKCl9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fCkx0cnUgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0Ckx0cnVAaWV0Zi5vcmcKaHR0 cDovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL2x0cnUK From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Fri Feb 15 22:28:26 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10A5D28C141; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 22:28:26 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.872 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.872 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.313, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, HTML_MESSAGE=1, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QTDvw5CUAr8o; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 22:28:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E2A63A6886; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 22:28:25 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3D263A67EF for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 22:28:23 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RQu9OOXFYxh0 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 22:28:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from wa-out-1112.google.com (wa-out-1112.google.com [209.85.146.181]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 417083A6872 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 22:28:21 -0800 (PST) Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id k40so2016468wah.25 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 22:28:21 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.142.52.9 with SMTP id z9mr2929768wfz.201.1203143301127; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 22:28:21 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.143.174.8 with HTTP; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 22:28:21 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <30b660a20802152228u3081eb69r59ba441101771cf6@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 22:28:21 -0800 From: "Mark Davis" To: "Randy Presuhn" In-Reply-To: <000901c8705e$2f5b2bc0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20080216003903.GA5695@mercury.ccil.org> <30b660a20802151653r1c532bf7gdc27eb3f449ba001@mail.gmail.com> <00a301c87037$9e9c1340$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> <30b660a20802151905v79ad7460yd91bfc0702dc21b4@mail.gmail.com> <000901c8705e$2f5b2bc0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 29e04fd011e0bfeb Cc: LTRU Working Group Subject: Re: [Ltru] Updating Preferred-Value: field X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1041489380==" Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org --===============1041489380== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_839_17173693.1203143301108" ------=_Part_839_17173693.1203143301108 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline >WHY would we be *obliged* to deprecate MM in this scenario?Because that is required by BCP 47: 3.3. Maintenance of the Registry Maintenance of the registry requires that as codes are assigned or withdrawn by ISO 639, ISO 15924, ISO 3166, and UN M.49, the Language Subtag Reviewer MUST evaluate each change and determine the appropriate course of action according to the rules in this document. Such updates follow the registration process described in Section 3.5 (Registration Procedure for Subtags). ... 3.4. Stability of IANA Registry Entries... Codes assigned by ISO 639, ISO 15924, or ISO 3166 that are withdrawn by their respective maintenance or registration authority remain valid in language tags. A 'Deprecated' field containing the date of withdrawal MUST be added to the record. If a new record of the same type is added that represents a replacement value, then a 'Preferred-Value' field MAY also be added. The registration process MAY be used to add comments about the withdrawal of the code by the respective standard. On Feb 15, 2008 9:38 PM, Randy Presuhn wrote: > Hi - > > > From: "Mark Davis" > > To: "Randy Presuhn" > > Cc: > > Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 7:05 PM > > Subject: Re: [Ltru] Updating Preferred-Value: field > ... > > Now suppose that in 2011, ISO changes the name of UN:100 back to BU. > That is > > certainly a possibility. At that point we are obliged to deprecate MM. > We > > have two choices. > ... > > WHY would we be *obliged* to deprecate MM in this scenario? > > Randy > > _______________________________________________ > Ltru mailing list > Ltru@ietf.org > http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru > -- Mark ------=_Part_839_17173693.1203143301108 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline

>WHY would we be *obliged* to deprecate MM in this scenario?

Because that is required by BCP 47:

3.3.  Maintenance of the Registry

Maintenance of the registry requires that as codes are assigned or withdrawn by ISO 639, ISO 15924, ISO 3166, and UN M.49, the Language Subtag Reviewer MUST evaluate each change and determine the appropriate course of action according to the rules in this document. Such updates follow the registration process described in Section 3.5 (Registration Procedure for Subtags).
...

3.4.  Stability of IANA Registry Entries

...
Codes assigned by ISO 639, ISO 15924, or ISO 3166 that are withdrawn by their respective maintenance or registration authority remain valid in language tags. A 'Deprecated' field containing the date of withdrawal MUST be added to the record. If a new record of the same type is added that represents a replacement value, then a 'Preferred-Value' field MAY also be added. The registration process MAY be used to add comments about the withdrawal of the code by the respective standard.

On Feb 15, 2008 9:38 PM, Randy Presuhn <randy_presuhn@mindspring.com> wrote:
Hi -

> From: "Mark Davis" <mark.davis@icu-project.org>
> To: "Randy Presuhn" <randy_presuhn@mindspring.com>
> Cc: <ltru@ietf.org>
> Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 7:05 PM
> Subject: Re: [Ltru] Updating Preferred-Value: field
...
> Now suppose that in 2011, ISO changes the name of UN:100 back to BU. That is
> certainly a possibility. At that point we are obliged to deprecate MM. We
> have two choices.
...

WHY would we be *obliged* to deprecate MM in this scenario?

Randy

_______________________________________________
Ltru mailing list
Ltru@ietf.org
http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru



--
Mark ------=_Part_839_17173693.1203143301108-- --===============1041489380== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru --===============1041489380==-- From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Fri Feb 15 22:47:03 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C1753A67B3; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 22:47:03 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.308 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.308 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.129, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id v5BdWJD94tHk; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 22:47:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABE763A67EF; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 22:47:02 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8C853A67B3 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 22:47:01 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 99WcsPpAup9J for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 22:47:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.70]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B22913A67EF for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 22:47:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from [64.105.35.55] (helo=oemcomputer) by elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1JQGp9-0001Ks-QE for ltru@ietf.org; Sat, 16 Feb 2008 01:47:00 -0500 Message-ID: <003001c87067$d50cfe00$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> From: "Randy Presuhn" To: "LTRU Working Group" References: <20080216003903.GA5695@mercury.ccil.org> <30b660a20802151653r1c532bf7gdc27eb3f449ba001@mail.gmail.com> <00a301c87037$9e9c1340$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> <30b660a20802151905v79ad7460yd91bfc0702dc21b4@mail.gmail.com> <000901c8705e$2f5b2bc0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> <30b660a20802152228u3081eb69r59ba441101771cf6@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 22:47:40 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-ELNK-Trace: 4488c18417c9426da92b9037bc8bcf44d4c20f6b8d69d8885d2a9c731cc89117a767690e83a595641b3ca84f7bd8c94b350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 64.105.35.55 Subject: Re: [Ltru] Updating Preferred-Value: field X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Hi - As a technical contributor... > From: "Mark Davis" > To: "Randy Presuhn" > Cc: "LTRU Working Group" > Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 10:28 PM > Subject: Re: [Ltru] Updating Preferred-Value: field > > >WHY would we be *obliged* to deprecate MM in this scenario? > Because that is > required by BCP 47: > 3.3. Maintenance of the Registry Maintenance of the registry requires that > as codes are assigned or withdrawn by ISO 639, ISO 15924, ISO 3166, and UN > M.49, the Language Subtag Reviewer MUST evaluate each change and determine > the appropriate course of action according to the rules in this document. > Such updates follow the registration process described in Section 3.5 > (Registration > Procedure for Subtags). > > ... > > 3.4. Stability of IANA Registry Entries... > Codes assigned by ISO 639, ISO 15924, or ISO 3166 that are withdrawn by > their respective maintenance or registration authority remain valid in > language tags. A 'Deprecated' field containing the date of withdrawal MUST > be added to the record. If a new record of the same type is added that > represents a replacement value, then a 'Preferred-Value' field MAY also be > added. The registration process MAY be used to add comments about the > withdrawal of the code by the respective standard. ... I thought this was all trumped (at least in spirit) by 3.4 (10) (D): D. For ISO 3166 codes, if the newly assigned code's meaning is associated with the same UN M.49 code as another 'region' subtag, then the existing region subtag remains as the preferred value for that region and no new entry is created. A comment MAY be added to the existing region subtag indicating the relationship to the new ISO 3166 code. Randy _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Fri Feb 15 23:11:22 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72A663A692E; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 23:11:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.557 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.557 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.120, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id y4p9AphNAYdM; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 23:11:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA49B3A67ED; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 23:11:21 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B20B3A6904 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 23:11:19 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id djhXkk6-GNYZ for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 23:11:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from mta11.adelphia.net (mta11.adelphia.net [68.168.78.205]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60F0F3A6930 for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 23:09:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from DGBP7M81 ([76.167.184.182]) by mta11.adelphia.net (InterMail vM.6.01.05.02 201-2131-123-102-20050715) with SMTP id <20080216070956.DDHE15146.mta11.adelphia.net@DGBP7M81> for ; Sat, 16 Feb 2008 02:09:56 -0500 Message-ID: <00a301c8706a$efce5420$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> From: "Doug Ewell" To: "LTRU Working Group" References: Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 23:09:56 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 Subject: Re: [Ltru] Updating Preferred-Value: field X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; 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Sat, 16 Feb 2008 02:56:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from ch-smtp01.sth.basefarm.net (ch-smtp01.sth.basefarm.net [80.76.149.212]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B9D83A6947 for ; Sat, 16 Feb 2008 02:56:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from c83-248-86-24.bredband.comhem.se ([83.248.86.24]:3565 helo=wgbgkka02x) by ch-smtp01.sth.basefarm.net with esmtp (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1JQKiZ-0000CH-6L; Sat, 16 Feb 2008 11:56:28 +0100 From: "Kent Karlsson" To: "'Randy Presuhn'" , References: <20080216003903.GA5695@mercury.ccil.org> <008401c87036$db96d7e0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2008 11:56:25 +0100 Message-ID: <008f01c8708a$94357bf0$1856f853@streamserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <008401c87036$db96d7e0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> Thread-Index: AchwNs/7hEUqjKQdStmyyCRh+LvLLAAUcKJg X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 X-Originating-IP: 83.248.86.24 X-Scan-Result: No virus found in message 1JQKiZ-0000CH-6L. X-Scan-Signature: ch-smtp01.sth.basefarm.net 1JQKiZ-0000CH-6L 918bb3610e6ac0917e4cffc2bf934e13 Subject: Re: [Ltru] Updating Preferred-Value: field X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Randy Presuhn wrote: > > From: "John Cowan" > > To: > > Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 4:39 PM > > Subject: [Ltru] Updating Preferred-Value: field > > > > > I propose the following change to the penultimate paragraph > of 4646bis, > > Editor's Draft, Section 3.1.6: > > > > Original text: > > > > The field 'Preferred-Value' MUST NOT be modified once created in the > > registry. The field MAY be added to records according to > the rules in > > Section 3.3 (Maintenance of the Registry). > > > > Proposed revised text: > > > > The field 'Preferred-Value' MUST not be removed from a record. If the > > subtag described by the record becomes deprecated, this field MAY be > > added according to the rules in Section 3.3. In that case, any records > > which refer to this one through their own 'Preferred-Value' fields are > > updated to refer to the new preferred value, so that it is not necessary > > to navigate from a deprecated subtag via another deprecated subtag to > > reach a preferred subtag. > ... ... > As a technical contributor, I have no objection to this proposal. > > (Though some might trip over the optionality implied by "MAY" - > more robust would be "If the subtag described by the record > becomes deprecated and there is a replacement mapping, this > field MUST be added according to the rules in Section 3.3. ") No, because it may be the case that there is no preferred value. See e.g. sh and zh-min in draft-ietf-ltru-4645bis-04.txt. > An existing application which recursively follows "Preferred-Value" > fields through the registry would still work correctly if this change > is made. The additional effort impacts only the registry > maintainers (i.e., ietf-languages@iana.org). Consequently, the > technical impact of this change is minimal. That agrees with my intention. (I will not propose any alternate change of text for 4646bis, though I think the BU->MM->BU case that Mark mentioned would be unproblematic per se. I think the rules were intended to prevent ambiguities to arise, but in such an example there would be no ambiguity, so the rules even if amended as above are still a bit too strict. But maybe this is as far as we can get at this point.) /kent k _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Sun Feb 17 13:56:40 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF18C3A6E32; Sun, 17 Feb 2008 13:56:39 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.545 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.545 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.108, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7gsaz4Z6198b; Sun, 17 Feb 2008 13:56:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E4A53A6DFD; Sun, 17 Feb 2008 13:56:32 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2E213A6AC9 for ; Sun, 17 Feb 2008 13:56:29 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ccr1Jt-J7GPE for ; Sun, 17 Feb 2008 13:56:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx1.nexbyte.net (132.nexbyte.net [62.197.41.132]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78E473A6E2D for ; Sun, 17 Feb 2008 13:54:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from 145.nexbyte.net ([62.197.41.145]) by mx1.nexbyte.net (mx1.nexbyte.net [62.197.41.132]) (MDaemon PRO v9.6.4) with ESMTP id md50007792731.msg for ; Sun, 17 Feb 2008 15:12:26 +0000 X-Spam-Processed: mx1.nexbyte.net, Sun, 17 Feb 2008 15:12:26 +0000 (not processed: message from trusted or authenticated source) X-MDRemoteIP: 62.197.41.145 X-Return-Path: prvs=1933d99498=debbie@ictmarketing.co.uk X-Envelope-From: debbie@ictmarketing.co.uk X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: ltru@ietf.org Received: from CPQ86763045110 ([83.67.121.192]) by 145.nexbyte.net with MailEnable ESMTP; Sun, 17 Feb 2008 15:05:28 +0000 From: "Debbie Garside" To: Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2008 15:05:14 -0000 Message-ID: <00f501c87176$7fec95b0$0a00a8c0@CPQ86763045110> X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: Achxdn+eCmFOCrZmTnit/ZNhUEOoWw== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 X-MDAV-Processed: mx1.nexbyte.net, Sun, 17 Feb 2008 15:12:27 +0000 Subject: [Ltru] Language Subtag Reviewer X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list Reply-To: debbie@ictmarketing.co.uk List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Hi Can you clarify the following: --- The Language Subtag Reviewer is appointed by the IESG for an indefinite term, subject to removal or replacement at the IESG's discretion. The IESG will solicit nominees for the position (upon adoption of this document or upon a vacancy) and then solicit feedback on the nominees' qualifications. Qualified candidates should be familiar with BCP 47 and its requirements; be willing to fairly, responsively, and judiciously administer the registration process; and be suitably informed about the issues of language identification so that they can draw upon and assess the claim and contributions of language experts and subtag requesters. --- Does this mean that the IESG are required to solicit nominees for the position of Language Subtag Reviewer upon the adoption of this document? Or does it mean just when a vacancy arises? Best regards Debbie Debbie Garside CEO The World Language Documentation Centre Corner House Barn Street Haverfordwest Pembrokeshire SA61 1BW Wales UK Tel: 0044 1437 766441 Fax: 0044 1437 766173 Web: http://www.thewldc.org _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Sun Feb 17 18:31:40 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C7883A6C50; Sun, 17 Feb 2008 18:31:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.202 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.202 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.235, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tVNRnuusNAcQ; Sun, 17 Feb 2008 18:31:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6234E3A6BFD; Sun, 17 Feb 2008 18:31:39 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FBB03A6C3D for ; Sun, 17 Feb 2008 18:31:38 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ONXaXS7y11r9 for ; Sun, 17 Feb 2008 18:31:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.63]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 781B43A6BBF for ; Sun, 17 Feb 2008 18:31:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from [68.166.38.119] (helo=oemcomputer) by elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1JQvn5-0003Cu-2k for ltru@ietf.org; Sun, 17 Feb 2008 21:31:35 -0500 Message-ID: <008501c871d6$7ea769e0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> From: "Randy Presuhn" To: References: <00f501c87176$7fec95b0$0a00a8c0@CPQ86763045110> Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2008 18:32:23 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-ELNK-Trace: 4488c18417c9426da92b9037bc8bcf44d4c20f6b8d69d8885d2a9c731cc891172876f689bfcd71019ad0f61f8520166d350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 68.166.38.119 Subject: Re: [Ltru] Language Subtag Reviewer X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Hi - > From: "Debbie Garside" > To: > Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 7:05 AM > Subject: [Ltru] Language Subtag Reviewer ... > Can you clarify the following: > > --- > The Language Subtag Reviewer is appointed by the IESG for an > indefinite term, subject to removal or replacement at the IESG's > discretion. The IESG will solicit nominees for the position (upon > adoption of this document or upon a vacancy) and then solicit > feedback on the nominees' qualifications. Qualified candidates > should be familiar with BCP 47 and its requirements; be willing to > fairly, responsively, and judiciously administer the registration > process; and be suitably informed about the issues of language > identification so that they can draw upon and assess the claim and > contributions of language experts and subtag requesters. > > --- > > Does this mean that the IESG are required to solicit nominees for the > position of Language Subtag Reviewer upon the adoption of this document? Or > does it mean just when a vacancy arises? ... As a technical contributor: replace "(upon adoption of this document or upon a vacancy)" with "upon a vacancy". Randy _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Mon Feb 18 01:50:56 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8ED5228C276; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 01:50:56 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.586 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.586 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.149, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0j8UAT6fFSWi; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 01:50:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDC053A6C78; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 01:50:55 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A7B43A6C41 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 01:50:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6bRvMz9NZET2 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 01:50:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx1.nexbyte.net (132.nexbyte.net [62.197.41.132]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 775BE3A6C78 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 01:50:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from 145.nexbyte.net ([62.197.41.145]) by mx1.nexbyte.net (mx1.nexbyte.net [62.197.41.132]) (MDaemon PRO v9.6.4) with ESMTP id md50007794110.msg for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 09:57:38 +0000 X-Spam-Processed: mx1.nexbyte.net, Mon, 18 Feb 2008 09:57:38 +0000 (not processed: message from trusted or authenticated source) X-MDRemoteIP: 62.197.41.145 X-Return-Path: prvs=1934f75bc1=debbie@ictmarketing.co.uk X-Envelope-From: debbie@ictmarketing.co.uk X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: ltru@ietf.org Received: from CPQ86763045110 ([83.67.121.192]) by 145.nexbyte.net with MailEnable ESMTP; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 09:50:40 +0000 From: "Debbie Garside" To: "'Randy Presuhn'" , References: <00f501c87176$7fec95b0$0a00a8c0@CPQ86763045110> <008501c871d6$7ea769e0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 09:50:21 -0000 Message-ID: <014201c87213$ad6dd2e0$0a00a8c0@CPQ86763045110> X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: Achx1woD7wmSeQPVQaiQ11LPYRjOAQAPJyvg In-Reply-To: <008501c871d6$7ea769e0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 X-MDAV-Processed: mx1.nexbyte.net, Mon, 18 Feb 2008 09:57:39 +0000 Subject: Re: [Ltru] Language Subtag Reviewer X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list Reply-To: debbie@ictmarketing.co.uk List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org +1 > -----Original Message----- > From: ltru-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ltru-bounces@ietf.org] On > Behalf Of Randy Presuhn > Sent: 18 February 2008 02:32 > To: ltru@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Ltru] Language Subtag Reviewer > > Hi - > > > From: "Debbie Garside" > > To: > > Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 7:05 AM > > Subject: [Ltru] Language Subtag Reviewer > ... > > Can you clarify the following: > > > > --- > > The Language Subtag Reviewer is appointed by the IESG for an > > indefinite term, subject to removal or replacement at the IESG's > > discretion. The IESG will solicit nominees for the > position (upon > > adoption of this document or upon a vacancy) and then solicit > > feedback on the nominees' qualifications. Qualified candidates > > should be familiar with BCP 47 and its requirements; be > willing to > > fairly, responsively, and judiciously administer the registration > > process; and be suitably informed about the issues of language > > identification so that they can draw upon and assess the > claim and > > contributions of language experts and subtag requesters. > > > > --- > > > > Does this mean that the IESG are required to solicit > nominees for the > > position of Language Subtag Reviewer upon the adoption of this > > document? Or does it mean just when a vacancy arises? > ... > > As a technical contributor: > replace "(upon adoption of this document or upon a vacancy)" > with "upon a vacancy". > > Randy > > _______________________________________________ > Ltru mailing list > Ltru@ietf.org > http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru > > > _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Mon Feb 18 05:57:44 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD09628C35F; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 05:57:44 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.293 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.293 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.270, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, HTML_MESSAGE=1, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KSBBa2e3Pf0S; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 05:57:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B789D28C31D; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 05:57:43 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40B7E28C312 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 05:57:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wSABfcuGQcZn for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 05:57:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from rv-out-0910.google.com (rv-out-0910.google.com [209.85.198.191]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 096EC28C31D for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 05:57:41 -0800 (PST) Received: by rv-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id l15so1163172rvb.49 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 05:57:37 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.141.22.1 with SMTP id z1mr3805657rvi.277.1203343057705; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 05:57:37 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.140.166.2 with HTTP; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 05:57:37 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <5b0cbc7c0802180557g2378cd24g92f1dbb7a6a10ebb@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 14:57:37 +0100 From: LB To: "Randy Presuhn" In-Reply-To: <008501c871d6$7ea769e0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <00f501c87176$7fec95b0$0a00a8c0@CPQ86763045110> <008501c871d6$7ea769e0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> Cc: ltru@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Ltru] Language Subtag Reviewer X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1443720993==" Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org --===============1443720993== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_1762_28291749.1203343057940" ------=_Part_1762_28291749.1203343057940 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Dear Randy, Because I see that you answer from time to time the questions, may I remind you that I have an unresolved question? I would thank you for answering me: it is very important for me as multilinguist to know if I can or not use / interoperate the work which I make on ccTAGs and Langtags in a stable way. As regards the proposed correction I quickly asked JFC Morfin that you know= , to the other multilinguists in France and in China, and French and European politics in a professional meeting of the publishing industry where I am. They completely agree with you. They say that it will clarify, once for all, that langtags are a project of Unicode for the naming of the CLDR locale files and American documentalists, with a very weak practical interest outside. They seem to consider that all this i= s of low academic interest, seing the little of time which Michael Everson ca= n dedicate it. In every case, they agree that they would be effectively very difficult to find somebody else of comp=E9tant and who ccepts this job. 2008/2/18, Randy Presuhn : > > Hi - > > > From: "Debbie Garside" > > To: > > Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 7:05 AM > > Subject: [Ltru] Language Subtag Reviewer > ... > > Can you clarify the following: > > > > --- > > The Language Subtag Reviewer is appointed by the IESG for an > > indefinite term, subject to removal or replacement at the IESG's > > discretion. The IESG will solicit nominees for the position (upon > > adoption of this document or upon a vacancy) and then solicit > > feedback on the nominees' qualifications. Qualified candidates > > should be familiar with BCP 47 and its requirements; be willing to > > fairly, responsively, and judiciously administer the registration > > process; and be suitably informed about the issues of language > > identification so that they can draw upon and assess the claim and > > contributions of language experts and subtag requesters. > > > > --- > > > > Does this mean that the IESG are required to solicit nominees for the > > position of Language Subtag Reviewer upon the adoption of this > document? Or > > does it mean just when a vacancy arises? > ... > > As a technical contributor: > replace "(upon adoption of this document or upon a vacancy)" > with "upon a vacancy". > > Randy > > _______________________________________________ > Ltru mailing list > Ltru@ietf.org > http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru > --=20 LB ------=_Part_1762_28291749.1203343057940 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline

Dear Randy,
Because I see that you answer from time to time the questions, may I remind you that I have an unresolved question? I would thank you for answering me: it is very important for me as multilinguist to know if I can or not use / interoperate the work which I make on ccTAGs and Langtags in a stable way.

As regards the proposed correction I quickly asked JFC Morfin that you know, to the other multilinguists in France and in China, and French and European politics in a professional meeting of the publishing industry where I am. They completely agree with you.

They say that it will clarify, once for all, that la= ngtags are a project of Un= icode for the naming of the CLDR locale files and American documentalists, with a very weak practical interest outside. They seem to consider that all this is of low academic interest, seing the little of time which Michael Everson can dedicate it. In every case, they agree that they would be effectively very difficult to find somebody else of comp=E9tant and who ccepts this job.



2008/2/18, Randy Presuhn <randy_presuhn@mindspring.com= >:
Hi -

> From: "Debbie Garside" <debbie@ictmarketing.co.uk>
> To: <<= a href=3D"mailto:ltru@ietf.org">ltru@ietf.org>
> Sent: Sunday,= February 17, 2008 7:05 AM
> Subject: [Ltru] Language Subtag Reviewer
...
> Can you clarif= y the following:
>
> ---
>    The Lan= guage Subtag Reviewer is appointed by the IESG for an
>  &n= bsp; indefinite term, subject to removal or replacement at the IESG= 9;s
>    discretion.  The IESG will solicit no= minees for the position (upon
>    adoption of th= is document or upon a vacancy) and then solicit
>   &n= bsp;feedback on the nominees' qualifications.  Qualified cand= idates
>    should be familiar with BCP 47 and its requirem= ents; be willing to
>    fairly, responsively, an= d judiciously administer the registration
>    pr= ocess; and be suitably informed about the issues of language
>    identification so that they can draw upon and a= ssess the claim and
>    contributions of languag= e experts and subtag requesters.
>
> ---
>
> Does t= his mean that the IESG are required to solicit nominees for the
> position of Language Subtag Reviewer upon the adoption of this documen= t?  Or
> does it mean just when a vacancy arises?
...
As a technical contributor:
replace "(upon adoption of this do= cument or upon a vacancy)"
with "upon a vacancy".

Randy

______________________= _________________________
Ltru mailing list
Ltru@ietf.org
http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru



--
LB ------=_Part_1762_28291749.1203343057940-- --===============1443720993== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru --===============1443720993==-- From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Mon Feb 18 07:07:17 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3187228C405; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 07:07:17 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.037 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.037 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.950, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 71lqM7oOtcKv; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 07:07:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C82C28C3EC; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 07:07:09 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D765328C349 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 07:07:08 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id j4ldpUJiDpjQ for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 07:07:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx2.nic.fr (mx2.nic.fr [192.134.4.11]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DBB128C451 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 07:05:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx2.nic.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mx2.nic.fr (Postfix) with SMTP id 72EB51C0124 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 16:05:01 +0100 (CET) Received: from relay2.nic.fr (relay2.nic.fr [192.134.4.163]) by mx2.nic.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E5521C011E for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 16:05:01 +0100 (CET) Received: from bortzmeyer.nic.fr (batilda.nic.fr [192.134.4.69]) by relay2.nic.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6205458EBC5 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 16:05:01 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 16:05:00 +0100 From: Stephane Bortzmeyer To: LTRU Working Group Message-ID: <20080218150500.GA24509@nic.fr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline X-Operating-System: Debian GNU/Linux 4.0 X-Kernel: Linux 2.6.18-6-686 i686 Organization: NIC France X-URL: http://www.nic.fr/ User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11) Subject: [Ltru] [4645bis] How to parse zh-gan? X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org The registry in 4645bis (I used the copy at http://home.roadrunner.com/~dewell/lstreg-4646bis-draft-04.txt) contains grandfathered tags like zh-gan or zh-cmn. They were "legal" in RFC 4646 (a language tag and an extended language subtag). How should a parser handle them? 1) They are not well-formed because the 'extlang' production has been removed from the ABNF and they are *not* listed in the 'irregular' production. 2) They are valid by definition, since they are in the registry (although deprecated). What's the best way for a parser to handle them? Should I add them to the 'irregular' production? Isn't it a problem that a tag can be valid but not well-formed? According to 2.2.9 in 4646bis, it is a technical problem because well-formed tags are a superset of valid tags. _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Mon Feb 18 07:34:15 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B15663A6CE4; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 07:34:15 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.663 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.663 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.226, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rZRnUaQnY4fd; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 07:34:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF36128C458; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 07:33:47 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04B8A28C44F for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 07:33:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lodaqRXLC7X4 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 07:33:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from ch-smtp02.sth.basefarm.net (ch-smtp02.sth.basefarm.net [80.76.149.213]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2093C28C45F for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 07:33:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from c83-248-82-96.bredband.comhem.se ([83.248.82.96]:3803 helo=wgbgkka02x) by ch-smtp02.sth.basefarm.net with esmtp (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1JR7zc-0003XV-8A; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 16:33:20 +0100 From: "Kent Karlsson" To: "'Stephane Bortzmeyer'" , "'LTRU Working Group'" References: <20080218150500.GA24509@nic.fr> Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 16:33:14 +0100 Message-ID: <012e01c87243$975d2b60$1856f853@streamserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <20080218150500.GA24509@nic.fr> Thread-Index: AchyQBSmc68GxdIoQxuzNCmz/YDJpAAAkdJA X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 X-Originating-IP: 83.248.82.96 X-Scan-Result: No virus found in message 1JR7zc-0003XV-8A. X-Scan-Signature: ch-smtp02.sth.basefarm.net 1JR7zc-0003XV-8A caf775b65c9a76ebb040dccd98b0f1f3 Subject: Re: [Ltru] [4645bis] How to parse zh-gan? X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote: > The registry in 4645bis (I used the copy at > http://home.roadrunner.com/~dewell/lstreg-4646bis-draft-04.txt) > contains grandfathered tags like zh-gan or zh-cmn. They were "legal" > in RFC 4646 (a language tag and an extended language subtag). > > How should a parser handle them? > > 1) They are not well-formed because the 'extlang' production has been > removed from the ABNF and they are *not* listed in the 'irregular' > production. They should be listed among the other "irregular" ones in the ABNF. /kent k _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Mon Feb 18 07:37:57 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46D5628C493; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 07:37:57 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.644 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.644 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.540, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, HTML_MESSAGE=1, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 07x+0wseGNKS; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 07:37:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F7103A6CDB; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 07:37:47 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 659B228C44F for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 07:37:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id igT630Nyr0rm for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 07:37:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from gv-out-0910.google.com (gv-out-0910.google.com [216.239.58.191]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D80B628C4DF for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 07:35:03 -0800 (PST) Received: by gv-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id i36so171820gve.15 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 07:35:00 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.142.47.6 with SMTP id u6mr4406768wfu.159.1203348899399; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 07:34:59 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.143.174.8 with HTTP; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 07:34:59 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <30b660a20802180734m55e7d7acg7c89f8ea30455d1b@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 07:34:59 -0800 From: "Mark Davis" To: "Randy Presuhn" In-Reply-To: <008501c871d6$7ea769e0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <00f501c87176$7fec95b0$0a00a8c0@CPQ86763045110> <008501c871d6$7ea769e0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> X-Google-Sender-Auth: fa2bb506c2cf6018 Cc: ltru@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Ltru] Language Subtag Reviewer X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0458711517==" Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org --===============0458711517== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_8304_18142892.1203348899416" ------=_Part_8304_18142892.1203348899416 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline -1 That language was deliberate, after an extended email debate. It should be retained. Mark On Feb 17, 2008 6:32 PM, Randy Presuhn wrote: > Hi - > > > From: "Debbie Garside" > > To: > > Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 7:05 AM > > Subject: [Ltru] Language Subtag Reviewer > ... > > Can you clarify the following: > > > > --- > > The Language Subtag Reviewer is appointed by the IESG for an > > indefinite term, subject to removal or replacement at the IESG's > > discretion. The IESG will solicit nominees for the position (upon > > adoption of this document or upon a vacancy) and then solicit > > feedback on the nominees' qualifications. Qualified candidates > > should be familiar with BCP 47 and its requirements; be willing to > > fairly, responsively, and judiciously administer the registration > > process; and be suitably informed about the issues of language > > identification so that they can draw upon and assess the claim and > > contributions of language experts and subtag requesters. > > > > --- > > > > Does this mean that the IESG are required to solicit nominees for the > > position of Language Subtag Reviewer upon the adoption of this document? > Or > > does it mean just when a vacancy arises? > ... > > As a technical contributor: > replace "(upon adoption of this document or upon a vacancy)" > with "upon a vacancy". > > Randy > > _______________________________________________ > Ltru mailing list > Ltru@ietf.org > http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru > -- Mark ------=_Part_8304_18142892.1203348899416 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline -1

That language was deliberate, after an extended email debate. It should be retained.

Mark

On Feb 17, 2008 6:32 PM, Randy Presuhn <randy_presuhn@mindspring.com> wrote:
Hi -

> From: "Debbie Garside" <debbie@ictmarketing.co.uk>
> To: <ltru@ietf.org>
> Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 7:05 AM
> Subject: [Ltru] Language Subtag Reviewer
...
> Can you clarify the following:
>
> ---
>    The Language Subtag Reviewer is appointed by the IESG for an
>    indefinite term, subject to removal or replacement at the IESG's
>    discretion.  The IESG will solicit nominees for the position (upon
>    adoption of this document or upon a vacancy) and then solicit
>    feedback on the nominees' qualifications.  Qualified candidates
>    should be familiar with BCP 47 and its requirements; be willing to
>    fairly, responsively, and judiciously administer the registration
>    process; and be suitably informed about the issues of language
>    identification so that they can draw upon and assess the claim and
>    contributions of language experts and subtag requesters.
>
> ---
>
> Does this mean that the IESG are required to solicit nominees for the
> position of Language Subtag Reviewer upon the adoption of this document?  Or
> does it mean just when a vacancy arises?
...

As a technical contributor:
replace "(upon adoption of this document or upon a vacancy)"
with "upon a vacancy".

Randy

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http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru



--
Mark ------=_Part_8304_18142892.1203348899416-- --===============0458711517== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru --===============0458711517==-- From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Mon Feb 18 07:39:06 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9018C3A6CE3; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 07:39:06 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.87 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.87 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.315, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, HTML_MESSAGE=1, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Z5tZPTRKVpB6; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 07:39:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB63328C2EB; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 07:39:05 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 281483A6CE8 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 07:39:04 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id le1es91iX7sY for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 07:39:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from el-out-1112.google.com (el-out-1112.google.com [209.85.162.180]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD1EA3A6CE3 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 07:39:02 -0800 (PST) Received: by el-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id j27so1125724elf.25 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 07:39:00 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.142.141.21 with SMTP id o21mr4445822wfd.56.1203349139521; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 07:38:59 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.143.174.8 with HTTP; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 07:38:59 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <30b660a20802180738t13f233d5qd9aca46732eb1892@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 07:38:59 -0800 From: "Mark Davis" To: "Stephane Bortzmeyer" In-Reply-To: <20080218150500.GA24509@nic.fr> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20080218150500.GA24509@nic.fr> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 36fe11fa0352eead Cc: LTRU Working Group Subject: Re: [Ltru] [4645bis] How to parse zh-gan? X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1939743478==" Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org --===============1939743478== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_8335_1695085.1203349139548" ------=_Part_8335_1695085.1203349139548 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline That's a mistake in the ABNF production: we didn't capture the change when we removed extlang. Would you like to suggest the list to be added? On Feb 18, 2008 7:05 AM, Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote: > The registry in 4645bis (I used the copy at > http://home.roadrunner.com/~dewell/lstreg-4646bis-draft-04.txt > ) > contains grandfathered tags like zh-gan or zh-cmn. They were "legal" > in RFC 4646 (a language tag and an extended language subtag). > > How should a parser handle them? > > 1) They are not well-formed because the 'extlang' production has been > removed from the ABNF and they are *not* listed in the 'irregular' > production. > > 2) They are valid by definition, since they are in the registry > (although deprecated). > > What's the best way for a parser to handle them? Should I add them to > the 'irregular' production? > > Isn't it a problem that a tag can be valid but not well-formed? > According to 2.2.9 in 4646bis, it is a technical problem because > well-formed tags are a superset of valid tags. > > > _______________________________________________ > Ltru mailing list > Ltru@ietf.org > http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru > -- Mark ------=_Part_8335_1695085.1203349139548 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline That's a mistake in the ABNF production: we didn't capture the change when we removed extlang. Would you like to suggest the list to be added?

On Feb 18, 2008 7:05 AM, Stephane Bortzmeyer <bortzmeyer@nic.fr> wrote:
The registry in 4645bis (I used the copy at
http://home.roadrunner.com/~dewell/lstreg-4646bis-draft-04.txt)
contains grandfathered tags like zh-gan or zh-cmn. They were "legal"
in RFC 4646 (a language tag and an extended language subtag).

How should a parser handle them?

1) They are not well-formed because the 'extlang' production has been
removed from the ABNF and they are *not* listed in the 'irregular'
production.

2) They are valid by definition, since they are in the registry
(although deprecated).

What's the best way for a parser to handle them? Should I add them to
the 'irregular' production?

Isn't it a problem that a tag can be valid but not well-formed?
According to 2.2.9 in 4646bis, it is a technical problem because
well-formed tags are a superset of valid tags.


_______________________________________________
Ltru mailing list
Ltru@ietf.org
http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru



--
Mark ------=_Part_8335_1695085.1203349139548-- --===============1939743478== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru --===============1939743478==-- From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Mon Feb 18 07:41:07 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAC3028C374; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 07:41:07 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.023 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.023 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.936, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tXba+plBnHZd; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 07:41:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 069D93A6CAC; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 07:41:07 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D54183A68FE for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 07:41:05 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rQt1CY7NDQ1M for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 07:41:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx2.nic.fr (mx2.nic.fr [192.134.4.11]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6A253A6CDB for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 07:41:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx2.nic.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mx2.nic.fr (Postfix) with SMTP id 6731D1C00FD; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 16:41:02 +0100 (CET) Received: from relay2.nic.fr (relay2.nic.fr [192.134.4.163]) by mx2.nic.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61E281C00DA; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 16:41:02 +0100 (CET) Received: from bortzmeyer.nic.fr (batilda.nic.fr [192.134.4.69]) by relay2.nic.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5491A58EBC5; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 16:41:02 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 16:41:02 +0100 From: 'Stephane Bortzmeyer' To: Kent Karlsson Message-ID: <20080218154102.GA29936@nic.fr> References: <20080218150500.GA24509@nic.fr> <012e01c87243$975d2b60$1856f853@streamserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <012e01c87243$975d2b60$1856f853@streamserve.com> X-Operating-System: Debian GNU/Linux 4.0 X-Kernel: Linux 2.6.18-6-686 i686 Organization: NIC France X-URL: http://www.nic.fr/ User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11) Cc: 'LTRU Working Group' Subject: Re: [Ltru] [4645bis] How to parse zh-gan? X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org On Mon, Feb 18, 2008 at 04:33:14PM +0100, Kent Karlsson wrote a message of 15 lines which said: > They should be listed among the other "irregular" ones in the ABNF. Yes, so one more Technical Issue for the WGLC? _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Mon Feb 18 07:48:12 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62C7F28C57F; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 07:48:12 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.978 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.978 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.891, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MwF+5vcqBul1; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 07:48:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74DDE28C48B; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 07:48:00 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0435A28C493 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 07:47:59 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8oIwLCu5SBNb for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 07:47:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx2.nic.fr (mx2.nic.fr [192.134.4.11]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FBBB28C43E for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 07:47:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx2.nic.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mx2.nic.fr (Postfix) with SMTP id D4F571C0106; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 16:47:44 +0100 (CET) Received: from relay2.nic.fr (relay2.nic.fr [192.134.4.163]) by mx2.nic.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF8A51C00FD; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 16:47:44 +0100 (CET) Received: from bortzmeyer.nic.fr (batilda.nic.fr [192.134.4.69]) by relay2.nic.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2DF758EBC5; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 16:47:44 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 16:47:44 +0100 From: Stephane Bortzmeyer To: Randy Presuhn Message-ID: <20080218154744.GA30493@nic.fr> References: <002001c868ec$23e463c0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <002001c868ec$23e463c0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> X-Operating-System: Debian GNU/Linux 4.0 X-Kernel: Linux 2.6.18-6-686 i686 Organization: NIC France X-URL: http://www.nic.fr/ User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11) Cc: LTRU Working Group Subject: Re: [Ltru] ltru mailing list test X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org On Wed, Feb 06, 2008 at 10:14:39AM -0800, Randy Presuhn wrote a message of 10 lines which said: > test, please ignore I do not ignore :-) the fact that the link "Archive:" http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/ltru-charter.html is broken: Object not found! The requested URL was not found on this server. The link on the referring page seems to be wrong or outdated. Please inform the author of that page about the error. If you think this is a server error, please contact the webmaster. Error 404 www.ietf.org Mon Feb 18 07:44:59 2008 Apache/2.2.4 (Linux/SUSE) mod_ssl/2.2.4 OpenSSL/0.9.8e PHP/5.2.5 with Suhosin-Patch mod_python/3.3.1 Python/2.5.1 JRun/4.0 mod_perl/2.0.3 Perl/v5.8.8 _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Mon Feb 18 08:06:12 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E373128C3B1; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 08:06:12 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.985 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.985 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.898, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dIW1oNHYgjbE; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 08:06:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1770928C3C3; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 08:06:12 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1509728C3C0 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 08:06:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SN-5OOW97bTD for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 08:06:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx2.nic.fr (mx2.nic.fr [192.134.4.11]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F273428C427 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 08:05:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx2.nic.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mx2.nic.fr (Postfix) with SMTP id A22D91C0115; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 17:05:22 +0100 (CET) Received: from relay2.nic.fr (relay2.nic.fr [192.134.4.163]) by mx2.nic.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CE5D1C010D; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 17:05:22 +0100 (CET) Received: from bortzmeyer.nic.fr (batilda.nic.fr [192.134.4.69]) by relay2.nic.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EFCF58EB6A; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 17:05:22 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 17:05:22 +0100 From: Stephane Bortzmeyer To: Mark Davis Message-ID: <20080218160522.GA32102@nic.fr> References: <20080218150500.GA24509@nic.fr> <30b660a20802180738t13f233d5qd9aca46732eb1892@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <30b660a20802180738t13f233d5qd9aca46732eb1892@mail.gmail.com> X-Operating-System: Debian GNU/Linux 4.0 X-Kernel: Linux 2.6.18-6-686 i686 Organization: NIC France X-URL: http://www.nic.fr/ User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11) Cc: LTRU Working Group Subject: Re: [Ltru] [4645bis] How to parse zh-gan? X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org On Mon, Feb 18, 2008 at 07:38:59AM -0800, Mark Davis wrote a message of 58 lines which said: > That's a mistake in the ABNF production: we didn't capture the change when > we removed extlang. Would you like to suggest the list to be added? Apparently, we just have to add norwegian and chinese :-) "no-bok" / "no-nyn" / "zh-cmn" / "zh-cmn-Hans" / "zh-cmn-Hant" / "zh-gan" / "zh-min" / "zh-min-nan" / "zh-wuu" / "zh-yue" _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Mon Feb 18 08:35:15 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 404623A6CDC; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 08:35:15 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.542 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.542 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.105, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id h8Ycm1q3TN46; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 08:35:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7664D3A6CA6; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 08:35:14 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B2A028C3AD for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 08:35:12 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MzakM7I9q+DX for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 08:35:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from earth.ccil.org (earth.ccil.org [192.190.237.11]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E803B28C3BE for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 08:34:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from cowan by earth.ccil.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1JR8x1-0004C9-Ev for ltru@ietf.org; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 11:34:43 -0500 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 11:34:43 -0500 To: ltru@ietf.org Message-ID: <20080218163443.GB22163@mercury.ccil.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11) From: John Cowan Subject: [Ltru] Proposal to add new tags to the 'irregular' production X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Per Stephane Bortzmeyer's email, I propose adding the following tags to the 'irregular' production: no-bok, no-nyn, zh-cmn, zh-cmn-Hans, zh-cmn-Hant, zh-gan, zh-min, zh-wuu, zh-yue These tags are grandfathered, and all will be deprecated and replaced in RFC 4645bis; however, they don't fit the new grammar. The alternative would be to have tags which are valid but not well-formed, which is unthinkable, or to allow a single level of extlangs purely for the purpose of making these tags work. -- At the end of the Metatarsal Age, the dinosaurs John Cowan abruptly vanished. The theory that a single cowan@ccil.org catastrophic event may have been responsible http://www.ccil.org/~cowan has been strengthened by the recent discovery of a worldwide layer of whipped cream marking the Creosote-Tutelary boundary. --Science Made Stupid _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Mon Feb 18 10:00:42 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 875E628C49E; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 10:00:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.751 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.751 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-2.238, BAYES_40=-0.185, FAKE_REPLY_C=2.012, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fAJDgfJjLHqK; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 10:00:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACCC43A6CE9; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 10:00:40 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CBF628C489 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 10:00:39 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HYKboMgmvaUX for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 10:00:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from mta11.adelphia.net (mta11.adelphia.net [68.168.78.205]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 304913A6D20 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 09:59:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from DGBP7M81 ([76.167.184.182]) by mta11.adelphia.net (InterMail vM.6.01.05.02 201-2131-123-102-20050715) with SMTP id <20080218175940.RXHJ14551.mta11.adelphia.net@DGBP7M81> for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 12:59:40 -0500 Message-ID: <006401c87258$08a0bee0$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> From: "Doug Ewell" To: "LTRU Working Group" Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 09:59:39 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 Subject: Re: [Ltru] Proposal to add new tags to the 'irregular' production X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Sm9obiBDb3dhbiA8Y293YW4gYXQgY2NpbCBkb3Qgb3JnPiB3cm90ZToKCj4gUGVyIFN0ZXBoYW5l IEJvcnR6bWV5ZXIncyBlbWFpbCwgSSBwcm9wb3NlIGFkZGluZyB0aGUgZm9sbG93aW5nIHRhZ3Mg Cj4gdG8gdGhlICdpcnJlZ3VsYXInIHByb2R1Y3Rpb246Cj4KPiAgICBuby1ib2ssIG5vLW55biwg emgtY21uLCB6aC1jbW4tSGFucywgemgtY21uLUhhbnQsCj4gICAgemgtZ2FuLCB6aC1taW4sIHpo LXd1dSwgemgteXVlCgoiemgtbWluLW5hbiIgbmVlZHMgdG8gYmUgYWRkZWQgdG8gdGhpcyBsaXN0 LCBhcyBTdMOpcGhhbmUgbm90ZWQuCgpUaGUgd2hvbGUgbGlzdCBzaG91bGQgYmUgbWFpbnRhaW5l ZCBpbiBhbHBoYWJldGljYWwgb3JkZXIsIHZpejoKCiAgIGlycmVndWxhciAgICAgPSAiZW4tR0It b2VkIiAvICJpLWFtaSIgLyAiaS1ibm4iIC8gImktZGVmYXVsdCIKICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAv ICJpLWVub2NoaWFuIiAvICJpLWhhayIgLyAiaS1rbGluZ29uIiAvICJpLWx1eCIKICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAvICJpLW1pbmdvIiAvICJpLW5hdmFqbyIgLyAiaS1wd24iIC8gImktdGFvIgogICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgIC8gImktdGF5IiAvICJpLXRzdSIgLyAibm8tYm9rIiAvICJuby1ueW4iCiAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgLyAic2duLUJFLWZyIiAvICJzZ24tQkUtbmwiIC8gInNnbi1DSC1kZSIg LyAiemgtY21uIgogICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIC8gInpoLWNtbi1IYW5zIiAvICJ6aC1jbW4tSGFu dCIgLyAiemgtZ2FuIgogICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIC8gInpoLW1pbiIgLyAiemgtbWluLW5hbiIg LyAiemgtd3V1IiAvICJ6aC15dWUiCgotLQpEb3VnIEV3ZWxsICAqICBGdWxsZXJ0b24sIENhbGlm b3JuaWEsIFVTQSAgKiAgUkZDIDQ2NDUgICogIFVUTiAjMTQKaHR0cDovL3d3dy5ld2VsbGljLm9y ZwpodHRwOi8vd3d3MS5pZXRmLm9yZy9odG1sLmNoYXJ0ZXJzL2x0cnUtY2hhcnRlci5odG1sCmh0 dHA6Ly93d3cuYWx2ZXN0cmFuZC5uby9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL2lldGYtbGFuZ3VhZ2VzICDL hiAKCl9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fCkx0cnUg bWFpbGluZyBsaXN0Ckx0cnVAaWV0Zi5vcmcKaHR0cDovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xp c3RpbmZvL2x0cnUK From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Mon Feb 18 10:32:43 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13B2D3A67E7; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 10:32:43 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.638 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.638 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=2.074, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, HTML_MESSAGE=1, MIME_HTML_MOSTLY=0.001, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id N9eGJU1MyaIt; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 10:32:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 750203A68A7; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 10:32:41 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 371E13A67E7 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 10:32:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tzohlTsha3xI for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 10:32:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from blu139-omc2-s3.blu139.hotmail.com (blu139-omc2-s3.blu139.hotmail.com [65.55.175.173]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71FF33A68BE for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 10:32:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from BLU109-W26 ([65.55.162.184]) by blu139-omc2-s3.blu139.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Mon, 18 Feb 2008 10:32:36 -0800 Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [168.12.253.66] From: CE Whitehead To: Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 13:32:35 -0500 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <30b660a20802151222o763fea90p843bb48c56169c7c@mail.gmail.com> References: <30b660a20802151222o763fea90p843bb48c56169c7c@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Feb 2008 18:32:36.0360 (UTC) FILETIME=[A22EE880:01C8725C] Subject: Re: [Ltru] Editorial Comments Only--RFC4646bis-11 X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1275930483==" Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org --===============1275930483== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_16b45889-5ca9-46ab-8ff4-46d5668ff62e_" --_16b45889-5ca9-46ab-8ff4-46d5668ff62e_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, I have revised my comments on the first part of the draft. Hope you fin= d these helpful! --C. E. Whiteheadcewcathar@hotmail.com From: mark.davis@ic= u-project.orgTo: cewcathar@hotmail.com> General comment: at this point, if = you want a=20 > change you should indicate precisely the text that is > to be replaced an= d by precisely what text. So we=20 > really can't take any action on most of these. Other > comments below.> M= ark =20 =20 Done! =20 On Fri, Feb 15, 2008 at 10:55 AM, CE Whitehead wrot= e: Hi, so far I've read through p. 32, section 3.4 in: http://www.ietf.org/in= ternet-drafts/draft-ietf-ltru-4646bis-11.txt Following are some editorial c= omments (from my perspective, these would make the draft more readable to o= utsiders--people not completely familiar with all this yet; just some reque= sts for clarifications and cross-references that would be nice, if you all = agree).. . .Thanks! --C. E. Whiteheadcewcathar@hotmail.com * * *p.3, Sec= tion 1, PAR 5> If you are requesting a change, provide exactly the=20 > change in the text that you propose.=20 "Tags can also be used to indicate additional language attributes of conten= t. For example, indicating specific information about the dialect, writing = system, or orthography used in a document or resource may enable the user t= o obtain information in a form that they can understand, or it can be impor= tant in processing or rendering the given content into an appropriate form = or style." =20 =3D=3D> "For example, indicating specific information about=20 the dialect, writing system, or orthography used in a document or resource = may enable the user to obtain information in a form that they can understan= d, or it, together with the declaration of document encoding type, can be i= mportant in processing or rendering the given content into an appropriate f= orm or style." =20 =20 COMMENT/DISCUSSION: It's nice to insert a short note here that it is not j= ust the language declaration that is used for this; I think that makes the = fifth paragraph of the first section "More Useful." =20 (ALSO, ONE MORE TRIVIAL COMMENT ON THIS SECTION: "form or style?" "proces= sing or rendering??" =20 Would not it be best to choose between processing or rendering? I think it= 's first processed then rendered; that is the text is processed; then part = of the processing involves rendering it for the user; I'd say instead of=20 "processing or rendering"=20 =3D> "rendering"=20 only but it's no big deal!) * * *p.10, Section 2.2.2: "2.2.2. Extended Language Subtags "Extended language subtags are permane= ntly reserved. They MUST NOT be registered or used to form language tags (= except in grandfathered tags). They were originally created to allow for c= ertain kinds of compatibility mappings which ultimately were not used." INS= ERT =3D> "The grandfathered tags formed with extended language subtags, fo= r example, zh-gan, =20 > will be deprecated (most often with a preferred value). " COMMENT: Inserting this information makes it clear what is happening to th= e grandfathered tags! Otherwise I was left wondering.=20 * * * =20 p. 11, Section 2.2.4, item 3:"The following rules define which codes are en= tered into the registry as valid subtags:" INSERT =3D> =20 "The following rules define which codes are entered into the registry= as valid regional subtags:" =20 (COMMENT: Sorry, it's just not clear that you mean "regional" here; someh= ow without the word 'regional' spelled out it seems like you've jumped back= to the general talk about language tags) =20 * * * p. 11, Section 2.2.4, Item 3.C: "UN numeric codes for countries or areas wh= ich are assigned ISO 3166 alpha2 codes already present in the reg= istry, MUST be defined according to the rules in Section 3.4 and = MUST be used to form language tags that represent the country or = region for which they are defined. This happens when ISO = 3166 reassigns a code formerly used for one country to another= ." =20 CHANGE LAST SENTENCE, "This happens when ISO 3166 reassigns a code formerly used for one country = to another."=20 =3D> "The numeric subtags for countries are used instead of the subtags for= countries formed with letters only when ISO 3166 reassigns a letter code f= ormerly used for one country to another country." =20 =20 COMMENT: That this was done to avoid collisions was not clear from the dra= ft, although it's been amply addressed in the ltru discussion; however it n= eeds to be clarifiied in the draft. =20 =20 Thanks. =20 * * * =20 I also support John Cowan's proprosed change (which is not strictly editori= al): =20 > penultimate paragraph of=20 > 4646bis,> Editor's Draft, Section 3.1.6:> Original text:> The field 'Pref= erred-Value' MUST NOT > be modified once created in the> registry. The fiel= d MAY be added to=20 > records according to the rules in> Section 3.3 (Maintenance of the=20 > Registry).> Proposed revised text:> The field 'Preferred-Value' MUST not = > be removed from a record. If the> subtag described by the record=20 > becomes deprecated, this field MAY > be added according to the rules in=20 > Section 3.3. In that case, any=20 > records which refer to this one=20 > through their own 'Preferred-Value'=20 > fields are updated to refer to the new=20 > preferred value, so that it is not > necessary to navigate from a > deprecated subtag via another=20 > deprecated subtag to> reach a preferred subtag.> Discussion:> This is a s= ubstantive change which=20 > bites the bullet directly and allows> update of the 'Preferred-Value' fie= ld=20 > so that it at all times refers to> the value which is in fact preferred. * * * p.3, Section 1, PAR 1: "Human beings on our planet have, past and present, = used a number of languages."=3D> DELETE! =20 "There are many reasons why one would want to identify the language used = when presenting or requesting information." =20 =3D> "When presenting or requesting information, there are a number of reas= ons for identifying the human (as opposed to programming) languages used."= =20 =20 COMMENT/DISCUSSION: However, as Mark Davis pointed out, > As I recall, that sentence has made its way through different versions.=20 =20 It's unlikely then that this part will be changed; and this change is not i= mportant to me. So SKIP; the remaining changes are more important! =20 * * * =20 Best wishes, =20 --C. E. Whitehead cewcathar@hotmail.com = --_16b45889-5ca9-46ab-8ff4-46d5668ff62e_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi, I have revised my comments on the first part of the draft.
 Hope you find these helpful!
 
--C. E. Whitehead
cewcathar@hotmail.com

From: mark.= davis@icu-project.org
To: cewcathar@hotmail.com

> General comm= ent: at this point, if you want a
> change you should indicate precisely the text that is > to be repla= ced and by precisely what text. So we
> really can't take any action on most of these. Other > comments bel= ow.

> Mark
 
 
Done!

 
On Fri, Feb 15, 2008 at 10:55 AM, CE Whitehead = <cewcathar@hotmail.com> = wrote:


Hi,  so far I've read through p. 32, section 3.= 4 in:
 
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/= draft-ietf-ltru-4646bis-11.txt
 
Following are some edi= torial comments (from my perspective, these would make the draft more reada= ble to outsiders--people not completely familiar with all this yet; just so= me requests for clarifications and cross-references that would be nice, if = you all agree).
. . .
Thanks!
  
 --C. E. Whiteh= ead
cewcathar@hotmail.com&n= bsp;

 
* * *
p.3, Section 1, PAR 5

> If you are= requesting a change, provide exactly the
> change in the text that you propose.
 
"Tags can also be used to indicate additional language attributes of c= ontent. For example, indicating specific information about the dialect, wri= ting system, or orthography used in a document or resource may enable the u= ser to obtain information in a form that they can understand, or it can be = important in processing or rendering the given content into an appropriate = form or style."
 
=3D=3D> "For example, indicating specific information about
the dialect, writing system, or orthography used in a document or reso= urce may enable the user to obtain information in a form that they can unde= rstand, or it, together with the declaration of = document encoding type, can be important in processing or rendering = the given content into an appropriate form or style."
 
 
COMMENT/DISCUSSION:  It's nice to insert a short note here that i= t is not just the language declaration that is used for this; I think that = makes the fifth paragraph of the first section "More Useful."
 
(ALSO, ONE MORE TRIVIAL COMMENT ON THIS SECTION:  "form or style?= "  "processing or rendering??"  
Would not it be best to choose between processing or rendering?&n= bsp; I think it's first processed then rendered; that is the text is proces= sed; then part of the processing involves rendering it for the user; I'd sa= y
instead of
"processing or rendering" 
=3D> "rendering"
only but it's no big deal!)  

 
* * *
p.10= , Section 2.2.2:

"2.2.2.  Extend= ed Language Subtags

   "Extended language subtags are perm= anently reserved.  They MUST NOT be registered or used to form languag= e tags (except in grandfathered tags).  They were originally created t= o allow for certain kinds of compatibility mappings which ultimately were n= ot used."

 
INSERT  =3D>
 = ;"The grandfathered tags formed with extended languag= e subtags, for example, zh-gan,  

> will be deprecated (most often with a preferred value).

 "

COMMENT:  Inserting this i= nformation makes it clear what is happening to the grandfathered tags! = ; Otherwise I was left wondering.=20


* * *

 

p. 11, Section 2.2.4, item = 3:

"The following rules define which codes are entered
 &nbs= p;     into the registry as valid subtags:"
 INSERT  =3D>

 

"The following rules define= which codes are entered
       into the r= egistry as valid regional subtags:"

 

 
(COMMENT:  S= orry, it's just not clear that you mean "regional" here; somehow witho= ut the word 'regional' spelled out it seems like you've jumped back to= the general talk about language tags)

 

* * *

p. 11, Section 2.2.4, Item = 3.C:
 
"UN numeric codes for countries or areas which are assign= ed
           ISO 3166= alpha2 codes already present in the registry, MUST
   &n= bsp;       be defined according to the rules = in Section 3.4 and MUST be
       &nb= sp;   used to form language tags that represent the country or           region for wh= ich they are defined.  This happens when ISO
   &nbs= p;       3166 reassigns a code formerly used = for one country to
         = ;  another."

 

CHANGE LAST SENTENCE,


"This happens when ISO = 3166 reassigns a code formerly used for one country to another." 
<= /P>

=3D> "The numeric subtags for countries are used instead of the subtags for c= ountries formed with letters only when ISO 3166 reassigns a letter code for= merly used for one country to another country."

 

 

COMMENT:  That this wa= s done to avoid collisions was not clear from the draft, although it's= been amply addressed in the ltru discussion; however it needs to be c= larifiied in the draft. 


 

Thanks.

 

* * *

 

I also support John Cowan's= proprosed change (which is not strictly editorial):

 

> penultimate paragraph = of

> 4646bis,
> Edito= r's Draft, Section 3.1.6:

> Original text:

> The field = 'Preferred-Value' MUST NOT > be modified once created in the
> reg= istry. The field MAY be added to

> records according to t= he rules in
> Section 3.3 (Maintenance of the

> Registry).

>= Proposed revised text:

> The field 'Preferred-Value' MUST not &g= t; be removed from a record.  If the
> subtag described by the r= ecord

> becomes deprecated, th= is field MAY

> be added accordin= g to the rules in

> Section 3.3.  In = that case, any

> records which refer to= this one

> through their own 'Pre= ferred-Value'

> fields are updated to = refer to the new

> preferred value, so th= at it is not

> necessary to navi= gate from a

>  deprecated subta= g via another

> deprecated subtag to> reach a preferred subtag.

> Discussion:

> This i= s a substantive change which

> bites the bullet direc= tly and allows
> update of the 'Preferred-Value' field

> so that it at all time= s refers to
> the value which is in fact preferred.

* * *

p.3, Section 1, PAR 1:=
 "Human beings on our planet have, past and present, used a number= of languages."
=3D> DELETE!

 
"There are many reasons why one would want to identify the
 &n= bsp; language used when presenting or requesting information."
 
=3D> "When presenting or requesting informati= on, there are a number of reasons for identifying the human (as o= pposed to programming) languages used."
 
COMMENT/DISCUSSION:  However, as Mark Davis pointed out,
> As I recall, that sentence has made its way through different ver= sions.
 
It's unlikely then that this part will be changed; and this = change is not important to me.  So SKIP; the remaining changes ar= e more important!

 

* * *


 

 Best wishes,

 

--C. E. Whitehead

cewcathar@hotmail.com 

 

= --_16b45889-5ca9-46ab-8ff4-46d5668ff62e_-- --===============1275930483== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru --===============1275930483==-- From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Mon Feb 18 10:40:19 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4FF628C3F6; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 10:40:19 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.458 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.458 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.021, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DNkrYYDo49Dx; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 10:40:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B1693A6B73; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 10:40:18 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C84AF3A68A0 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 10:40:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9vS1CMOAdRmg for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 10:40:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.63]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13D4F3A67E7 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 10:40:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from [68.164.81.168] (helo=oemcomputer) by elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1JRAuT-0004uv-P2 for ltru@ietf.org; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 13:40:14 -0500 Message-ID: <004001c8725d$d1582940$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> From: "Randy Presuhn" To: References: <00f501c87176$7fec95b0$0a00a8c0@CPQ86763045110> <008501c871d6$7ea769e0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> <5b0cbc7c0802180557g2378cd24g92f1dbb7a6a10ebb@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 10:41:03 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-ELNK-Trace: 4488c18417c9426da92b9037bc8bcf44d4c20f6b8d69d8885d2a9c731cc89117ef458382663f80af6b7ce06e9b86ca73350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 68.164.81.168 Subject: Re: [Ltru] Language Subtag Reviewer X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Hi - > From: "LB" > To: "Randy Presuhn" > Cc: > Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 5:57 AM > Subject: Re: [Ltru] Language Subtag Reviewer ... > Because I see that you answer from time to time the questions, may I remind > you that I have an unresolved question? I would thank you for answering me: > it is very important for me as multilinguist to know if I can or not use / > interoperate the work which I make on ccTAGs and Langtags in a stable way. ... As co chair: I wasn't able to figure out how your message was relevant to this thread, which is on the specific question of whether the IESG needs to appoint a language subtag reviewer (even though we already have one) upon adoption of RFC 4646bis. If you'd like to open a new working group last call issue, please start a new thread with an appropriate subject line. It is best if you provide the exact replacement text you would like to see used in the drafts. Randy _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Mon Feb 18 10:47:24 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E57328C3C0; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 10:47:24 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.504 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.504 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.067, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ppVNMVsrpoKp; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 10:47:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1FC33A6CB7; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 10:47:23 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C0FA3A6CB7 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 10:47:23 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MYy3HfonbYCt for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 10:47:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.63]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B70D3A681E for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 10:47:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from [68.164.81.168] (helo=oemcomputer) by elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1JRB1L-0004Uf-7X for ltru@ietf.org; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 13:47:20 -0500 Message-ID: <005a01c8725e$cee58620$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> From: "Randy Presuhn" To: "LTRU Working Group" References: <20080218150500.GA24509@nic.fr><012e01c87243$975d2b60$1856f853@streamserve.com> <20080218154102.GA29936@nic.fr> Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 10:48:09 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-ELNK-Trace: 4488c18417c9426da92b9037bc8bcf44d4c20f6b8d69d8885d2a9c731cc8911731be12cde9e0ced36bf9c95e10e6e1e2350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 68.164.81.168 Subject: Re: [Ltru] [4645bis] How to parse zh-gan? X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Hi - > From: "'Stephane Bortzmeyer'" > To: "Kent Karlsson" > Cc: "'LTRU Working Group'" > Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 7:41 AM > Subject: Re: [Ltru] [4645bis] How to parse zh-gan? ... > Yes, so one more Technical Issue for the WGLC? ... As co-chair: Sure. There's nothing wrong with technical issues showing up in a working group last call. It's just a sign that people are actually reading the documents. As technical contributor: I'm beginning to think we may have been over-zealous in removing extlang from the grammar. Randy _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Mon Feb 18 10:50:34 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D728228C43F; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 10:50:34 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.528 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.528 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.091, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oV1pYK1l8Ui4; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 10:50:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC80628C3FE; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 10:50:33 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 414233A6CD8 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 10:50:32 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KX0YdZ1QtLkS for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 10:50:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.65]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A1B93A68A6 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 10:50:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from [68.164.81.168] (helo=oemcomputer) by elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1JRB4J-0005HN-SL for ltru@ietf.org; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 13:50:24 -0500 Message-ID: <006101c8725f$3a36f940$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> From: "Randy Presuhn" To: "LTRU Working Group" References: <002001c868ec$23e463c0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> <20080218154744.GA30493@nic.fr> Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 10:51:04 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-ELNK-Trace: 4488c18417c9426da92b9037bc8bcf44d4c20f6b8d69d8885d2a9c731cc89117563a0a994cd3ff9292cdb0163b9aaea0350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 68.164.81.168 Subject: Re: [Ltru] ltru mailing list test X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Hi - Already reported. I don't have an estimate on when it will be repaired. Other working groups' archives are also not accessible at the moment. We are not alone. :-) Randy > From: "Stephane Bortzmeyer" > To: "Randy Presuhn" > Cc: "LTRU Working Group" > Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 7:47 AM > Subject: Re: ltru mailing list test > > On Wed, Feb 06, 2008 at 10:14:39AM -0800, > Randy Presuhn wrote > a message of 10 lines which said: > > > test, please ignore > > I do not ignore :-) the fact that the link "Archive:" > http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/ltru-charter.html is broken: > > Object not found! > > The requested URL was not found on this server. The link on the referring page seems to be wrong or outdated. Please inform the author of that page about the error. > > If you think this is a server error, please contact the webmaster. > Error 404 > www.ietf.org > Mon Feb 18 07:44:59 2008 > Apache/2.2.4 (Linux/SUSE) mod_ssl/2.2.4 OpenSSL/0.9.8e PHP/5.2.5 with Suhosin-Patch mod_python/3.3.1 Python/2.5.1 JRun/4.0 mod_perl/2.0.3 Perl/v5.8.8 _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Mon Feb 18 10:55:35 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E56CB28C573; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 10:55:35 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.219 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.219 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.401, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=0.619, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Lv-sVIX3mSXa; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 10:55:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB39D28C4BA; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 10:54:59 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9BF228C592 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 10:54:58 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VqpzJBdFIREZ for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 10:54:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.69]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05CCB28C4B4 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 10:54:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from [68.164.81.168] (helo=oemcomputer) by elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1JRB8K-0004hk-Fi for ltru@ietf.org; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 13:54:32 -0500 Message-ID: <007801c8725f$d15dbca0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> From: "Randy Presuhn" To: References: <20080218163443.GB22163@mercury.ccil.org> Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 10:55:22 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-ELNK-Trace: 4488c18417c9426da92b9037bc8bcf44d4c20f6b8d69d8885d2a9c731cc8911741ab69a0f5ab9d24b92efef36f65a9bb350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 68.164.81.168 Subject: Re: [Ltru] Proposal to add new tags to the 'irregular' production X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Hi - As a technical contributor... > From: "John Cowan" > To: > Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 8:34 AM > Subject: [Ltru] Proposal to add new tags to the 'irregular' production > > Per Stephane Bortzmeyer's email, I propose adding the following > tags to the 'irregular' production: > > no-bok, no-nyn, zh-cmn, zh-cmn-Hans, zh-cmn-Hant, > zh-gan, zh-min, zh-wuu, zh-yue > > These tags are grandfathered, and all will be deprecated and replaced > in RFC 4645bis; however, they don't fit the new grammar. > > The alternative would be to have tags which are valid but not well-formed, > which is unthinkable, or to allow a single level of extlangs purely for > the purpose of making these tags work. Would the latter alternative be more palatable for the other organizations who had concerns about the removal of the extlang production? Randy _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Mon Feb 18 11:23:09 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 248E93A6C95; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 11:23:09 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.332 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.332 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.147, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, HTML_MESSAGE=1, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HmsjS8sSgL9X; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 11:23:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F66828C3A8; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 11:23:08 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 550DE28C3A8 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 11:23:07 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CaA4c3eEG6Vk for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 11:23:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from wr-out-0506.google.com (wr-out-0506.google.com [64.233.184.236]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBD253A6C95 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 11:23:05 -0800 (PST) Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id 50so2212258wri.25 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 11:23:03 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.142.79.15 with SMTP id c15mr4640108wfb.105.1203362582104; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 11:23:02 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.143.174.8 with HTTP; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 11:23:02 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <30b660a20802181123t6acbfb6ex57118776251c615b@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 11:23:02 -0800 From: "Mark Davis" To: "Doug Ewell" In-Reply-To: <006401c87258$08a0bee0$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <006401c87258$08a0bee0$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> X-Google-Sender-Auth: e25a38b6a151bbed Cc: LTRU Working Group Subject: Re: [Ltru] Proposal to add new tags to the 'irregular' production X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; 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charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru --===============1412647961==-- From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Mon Feb 18 12:18:24 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F06243A6D6C; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 12:18:24 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.518 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.518 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.081, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JRZRvyT2Zdkd; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 12:18:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D0653A6D73; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 12:18:19 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D30F3A6D73 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 12:18:18 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QfzgYirbMs9Y for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 12:18:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.bortzmeyer.org (aetius.bortzmeyer.org [217.70.190.232]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF7653A6D6E for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 12:18:12 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail.bortzmeyer.org (Postfix, from userid 10) id 8172932E78; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 21:17:16 +0100 (CET) Received: by mail.sources.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 1D16D114D2; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 21:17:51 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 21:17:51 +0100 From: Stephane Bortzmeyer To: Randy Presuhn Message-ID: <20080218201750.GA30687@sources.org> References: <20080218154102.GA29936@nic.fr> <005a01c8725e$cee58620$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <005a01c8725e$cee58620$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> X-Transport: UUCP rules X-Operating-System: Debian GNU/Linux 3.1 User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i Cc: LTRU Working Group Subject: Re: [Ltru] [4645bis] How to parse zh-gan? X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org On Mon, Feb 18, 2008 at 10:48:09AM -0800, Randy Presuhn wrote a message of 27 lines which said: > I'm beginning to think we may have been over-zealous in removing > extlang from the grammar. No, this case is not sufficient. After all, it has a simple technical fix. _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Mon Feb 18 12:35:28 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63C8A3A6D9F; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 12:35:28 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.978 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.978 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.540, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PrekJ+0t1Zaz; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 12:35:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E71803A6D5E; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 12:34:23 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1EB853A6B47 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 12:34:23 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jSiUsYBH31-R for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 12:34:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.bortzmeyer.org (aetius.bortzmeyer.org [217.70.190.232]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57E8F28C5D8 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 12:33:12 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail.bortzmeyer.org (Postfix, from userid 10) id 512D432F3A; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 21:32:17 +0100 (CET) Received: by mail.sources.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 8F61F1157E; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 21:28:54 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 21:28:54 +0100 From: Stephane Bortzmeyer To: Randy Presuhn Message-ID: <20080218202854.GA31843@sources.org> References: <20080218154102.GA29936@nic.fr> <005a01c8725e$cee58620$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <005a01c8725e$cee58620$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> X-Transport: UUCP rules X-Operating-System: Debian GNU/Linux 3.1 User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i Cc: LTRU Working Group Subject: Re: [Ltru] [4645bis] How to parse zh-gan? X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org On Mon, Feb 18, 2008 at 10:48:09AM -0800, Randy Presuhn wrote a message of 27 lines which said: > It's just a sign that people are actually reading the documents. Actually, implementing them. I'm quite bad at spotting problems just by reading. But implementation forces me to read in detail and understand the document :-) _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Mon Feb 18 12:40:29 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3F0C28C5ED; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 12:40:28 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.118 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.118 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.281, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, J_CHICKENPOX_48=0.6, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NWmHe5IE67jw; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 12:40:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33D0328C631; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 12:39:09 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9538328C5E8 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 12:39:07 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nB9yHExRgf09 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 12:39:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B39228C631 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 12:37:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from [68.164.81.168] (helo=oemcomputer) by elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1JRCjh-0004Xc-JL for ltru@ietf.org; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 15:37:13 -0500 Message-ID: <001901c8726e$29cc8f20$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> From: "Randy Presuhn" To: "LTRU Working Group" Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 12:38:04 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-ELNK-Trace: 4488c18417c9426da92b9037bc8bcf44d4c20f6b8d69d8885d2a9c731cc89117e437ee6d2dbffb7355ed21035e29538e350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 68.164.81.168 Subject: [Ltru] Fw: archives gone missing X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Hi - Here's an update on our WG archives, with a workaround to gain access to them until the problem is fixed. Randy > From: "James M Galvin" > To: "Working Group Chairs" > Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 11:15 AM > Subject: Re: archives gone missing > > Let me expand on Randy's message. > > WG Charter pages that include "/index.html" as a suffix on the > archive URL will find that that URL does not work. > > If you drop the "/index.html" the URL does work. > > It is not at all clear at the moment why that is there or why they > suddenly do not work. However, please know that the Secretariat is > aware of the problem. > > The problem comes from the fact that the html.charters pages are > automatically generated. This is a detail that was not apparent > prior to cut-over. In addition, the directory hierarchy that was > not discovered until last week is an important component of this > problem. > > AMS is actively working on the automation and will get it in place > quickly. They will then synchronize everything as best they can > and probably ask one more time for people to look at their charter > pages and report any problems. > > You should continue to report issues you see now with your WG page > that are not related to the archive URL. This way they can check > when the automation has been put in place. > > Jim > > > > -- On Monday, February 18, 2008 11:02 AM -0800 Randy Presuhn > wrote regarding archives gone > missing -- > > > Hi - > > > > The email archives pointed to from your WG's web page > > may have become inaccessible if the mailing list is an > > @ietf.org one. I've already reported the problem. > > > > Randy > > > > _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Tue Feb 19 17:30:08 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5515528C754; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 17:30:08 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.254 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.254 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.309, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, HTML_MESSAGE=1, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yOQJQwXfCSMF; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 17:30:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C72428C72B; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 17:30:07 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E03628C718 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 17:30:06 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Rt6varQUFWIG for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 17:30:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from rv-out-0910.google.com (rv-out-0910.google.com [209.85.198.189]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2322228C6DE for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 17:30:04 -0800 (PST) Received: by rv-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id l15so1589971rvb.49 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 17:30:01 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.141.19.16 with SMTP id w16mr5253942rvi.8.1203471001222; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 17:30:01 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.140.166.2 with HTTP; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 17:30:01 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <5b0cbc7c0802191730x11640adao46edcc2da998b527@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 02:30:01 +0100 From: LB To: "LTRU Working Group" MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: [Ltru] should LSRs cooperate ? X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0483024955==" Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org --===============0483024955== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_3952_24192795.1203471001245" ------=_Part_3952_24192795.1203471001245 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline I would like to return on the question of the application of the RFC 4646bi= s in the case of a plurality of LSRs on the Internet. I consider that the architectural reasons asking for a unique authoritative root are similar to those for a unique authoritative LSR. And the needs for alternative LSRs comparable to that for alternative roots. ICANN tells very well ( http://icann.org/icp/icp-3.htm) in which conditions there are thousands of legitimate alternatives root, either within private networks, or for reason= s of test - and it indicates the conditions that such tests have to respect. The discussions that I followed these last days within the MLTF shown me that what is going to take place is the creation of a LSR of test. The purpose of which will be to study the interoperability between the LSR of the IANA and the other linguistic registries concerning more specific or more general domains: correspondence with ISO 3166 administrative languages and the corresponding "filtering", national, cultural, relational spaces (notion of externet). I thus ask myself the question of the interest or not of a coordination between the various LSRs. I raised this question in the MLTF. The answer I obtained is that to interface it is necessary to be two, that I was free to raise the question in the IETF, that the MLTF's target was interoperability with all including the IANA. However, our resources being very limited, we had to advance at first with those who wished it. I was told that the persons the most capable of commenting would be Doug Ewell, Martin D=FCrst, and Peter Constable. --=20 LB ------=_Part_3952_24192795.1203471001245 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline I would like to return on the question of the application of the RFC 4646bi= s in the case of a plurality of LSRs on the Internet. I consider that the a= rchitectural reasons asking for a unique authoritative root are similar to = those for a unique authoritative LSR. And the needs for alternative LSRs co= mparable to that for alternative roots. ICANN tells very well (http://icann.org/icp/icp-3.htm) in which= conditions there are thousands of legitimate alternatives root, either wit= hin private networks, or for reasons of test - and it indicates the conditi= ons that such tests have to respect.

The discussions that I followed these last days within the MLTF shown m= e that what is going to take place is the creation of a LSR of test. The pu= rpose of which will be to study the interoperability between the LSR of the= IANA and the other linguistic registries concerning more specific or more = general domains: correspondence with ISO 3166 administrative languages and = the corresponding "filtering", national, cultural, relational spa= ces (notion of externet).

I thus ask myself the question of the interest or not of a coordination= between the various LSRs. I raised this question in the MLTF. The answer I= obtained is that to interface it is necessary to be two, that I was free t= o raise the question in the IETF, that the MLTF's target was interopera= bility with all including the IANA. However, our resources being very limit= ed, we had to advance at first with those who wished it. I was told that th= e persons the most capable of commenting would be Doug Ewell, Martin D=FCrs= t, and Peter Constable.

--
LB ------=_Part_3952_24192795.1203471001245-- --===============0483024955== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru --===============0483024955==-- From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Tue Feb 19 18:09:48 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0154728C202; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 18:09:48 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.896 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.078, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=0.619, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id seq4XZuTUo35; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 18:09:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34A8D3A6876; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 18:09:47 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A4303A6876 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 18:09:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jbgOXsciimEt for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 18:09:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.69]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D05A83A67A9 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 18:09:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from [68.165.5.205] (helo=oemcomputer) by elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1JReP0-0007ia-Pi for ltru@ietf.org; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 21:09:43 -0500 Message-ID: <002601c87365$c9220440$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> From: "Randy Presuhn" To: "LTRU Working Group" References: <5b0cbc7c0802191730x11640adao46edcc2da998b527@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 18:10:37 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-ELNK-Trace: 4488c18417c9426da92b9037bc8bcf44d4c20f6b8d69d8885d2a9c731cc891176e2696687083699910ce06b6aec48a58350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 68.165.5.205 Subject: Re: [Ltru] should LSRs cooperate ? X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Hi - As co-chair... The question of multiple language subtag registries is outside the scope of the ltru WG charter. Since we are in the final stages of a WG last call for our chartered work, I'd strongly prefer that discussion focus on getting our current i-ds ready for handoff to our Area Director. If you have comments on the current drafts, please provide the specific replacement text you would like to propose. Randy ----- Original Message ----- From: "LB" To: "LTRU Working Group" Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 5:30 PM Subject: [Ltru] should LSRs cooperate ? I would like to return on the question of the application of the RFC 4646bis in the case of a plurality of LSRs on the Internet. I consider that the architectural reasons asking for a unique authoritative root are similar to those for a unique authoritative LSR. And the needs for alternative LSRs comparable to that for alternative roots. ICANN tells very well ( http://icann.org/icp/icp-3.htm) in which conditions there are thousands of legitimate alternatives root, either within private networks, or for reasons of test - and it indicates the conditions that such tests have to respect. ... _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Tue Feb 19 23:30:31 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70C0228C421; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 23:30:31 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.518 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.518 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.081, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, HTML_MESSAGE=1, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MQYdldsrex7x; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 23:30:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8977E28C168; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 23:30:29 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39F6228C168 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 23:30:29 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id juQiXtLt+Xyi for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 23:30:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from py-out-1112.google.com (py-out-1112.google.com [64.233.166.183]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D78A3A6E19 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 23:30:27 -0800 (PST) Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id x19so4693904pyg.24 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 23:30:24 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.140.170.12 with SMTP id s12mr5455682rve.83.1203492623916; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 23:30:23 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.140.166.2 with HTTP; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 23:30:23 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <5b0cbc7c0802192330n4289442do32c9a32bd4a4e7e@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 08:30:23 +0100 From: LB To: "Randy Presuhn" In-Reply-To: <002601c87365$c9220440$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <5b0cbc7c0802191730x11640adao46edcc2da998b527@mail.gmail.com> <002601c87365$c9220440$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> Cc: LTRU Working Group Subject: Re: [Ltru] should LSRs cooperate ? X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1171416479==" Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org --===============1171416479== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_4286_10773895.1203492623919" ------=_Part_4286_10773895.1203492623919 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline 2008/2/20, Randy Presuhn : > > Hi - > > As co-chair... > > The question of multiple language subtag registries is outside the scope > of the ltru WG charter. Since we are in the final stages of a WG last > call > for our chartered work, I'd strongly prefer that discussion focus on > getting > our current i-ds ready for handoff to our Area Director. If you have > comments > on the current drafts, please provide the specific replacement text you > would like to propose. Hi - After a quick review for the most general text, I suggest to complete/modifiy the text as follows: "2. The Language Tag Language tags are used to help identify languages, whether spoken, written, signed, or otherwise signaled, for the purpose of communication. This includes constructed and artificial languages, but excludes languages not intended primarily for human communication, such as programming languages. The management of Language tags is assured by a Language Subtag Registry (" the registry "). In all the body of the text to replace IANA LSR by "the registry". "2.2. Language Subtag Sources and Interpretation The IETF langtags namespace registery is administered by the Internet Assigned Numbers Authority (IANA) [RFC2860] according to the rules in Section 5 of this document. The Language Subtag Registry maintained by IANA is the source for valid subtags: other standards referenced in this section provide the source material for that registry. This allows tags to be parsed and processed without reference to the latest version of the underlying standards or the IANA registry and makes the associated exception handling when parsing tags simpler. The private, specialized or other national or international standards respectfull registries SHOULD strive to remain interoperable with the registry of the IANA if they are not used within the framework of a closed private network or of a test-bed. Subtags in the registry that do not come from an underlying standard can only appear in specific positions in a tag. Specifically, they can only occur as primary language subtags or as variant subtags And to add to "Security considerations": "Users should keep in mind that there is no certainty in the authority and in the sources of the register used to form or read langtags. For that reason the Chairs of working groups of SSDOs widening the sources used by the IANA should concert with the IANA Language Subtags Registry Reviewer, and the members of ietf-languages mailing list should participate in the mailing list which they could elect to form. -- LB ------=_Part_4286_10773895.1203492623919 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline 2008/2/20, Randy Presuhn <randy_presuhn@mindspring.com>:
Hi -

As co-chair...

The question of multiple language subtag registries is outside the scope
of the ltru WG charter.   Since we are in the final stages of a WG last call
for our chartered work, I'd strongly prefer that discussion focus on getting
our current i-ds ready for handoff to our Area Director.  If you have comments
on the current drafts, please provide the specific replacement text you
would like to propose.

Hi -

After a quick review for the most general text, I suggest to complete/modifiy the text as follows:

"2. The Language Tag
  
   Language tags are used to help identify languages, whether spoken,
   written, signed, or otherwise signaled, for the purpose of
   communication.  This includes constructed and artificial languages,
   but excludes languages not intended primarily for human
   communication, such as programming languages. The management of
   Language tags is assured by a Language Subtag Registry (" the
   registry ").

In all the body of the text to replace IANA LSR by "the registry".

"2.2.  Language Subtag Sources and Interpretation

   The IETF langtags namespace registery is administered by
   the Internet Assigned Numbers Authority (IANA) [RFC2860] according to
   the rules in Section 5 of this document.  The Language Subtag
   Registry maintained by IANA is the source for valid subtags: other
   standards referenced in this section provide the source material for
   that registry.

   This allows tags to be parsed and processed without
   reference to the latest version of the underlying standards or the
   IANA registry and makes the associated exception handling when
   parsing tags simpler.

The private, specialized or other national or international standards respectfull registries SHOULD strive to remain interoperable with the registry of the IANA if they are not used within the framework of a closed private network or of a test-bed.

   Subtags in the registry that do not come from an underlying
   standard can only appear in specific positions in a tag.
   Specifically, they can only occur as primary language subtags or as
   variant subtags 

And to add to "Security considerations":

"Users should keep in mind that there is no certainty in the authority and in the sources of the register used to form or read langtags. For that reason the Chairs of working groups of SSDOs widening the sources used by the IANA should concert with the IANA Language Subtags Registry Reviewer, and the members of ietf-languages mailing list should participate in the mailing list which they could elect to form.

--
LB ------=_Part_4286_10773895.1203492623919-- --===============1171416479== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru --===============1171416479==-- From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Tue Feb 19 23:43:13 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AEB13A6E3B; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 23:43:13 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.022 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.022 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.540, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, HTML_MESSAGE=1, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WCgIw61s6+Tk; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 23:43:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B83133A694D; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 23:43:11 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30F1C3A6930 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 23:43:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NtejreEAxFRF for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 23:43:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from wx-out-0506.google.com (wx-out-0506.google.com [66.249.82.229]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 649523A6917 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 23:43:09 -0800 (PST) Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id s8so2229379wxc.31 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 23:43:06 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.141.161.6 with SMTP id n6mr5474658rvo.41.1203493385192; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 23:43:05 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.140.166.2 with HTTP; Tue, 19 Feb 2008 23:43:05 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <5b0cbc7c0802192343v31ebf6b1j49cb8b53583ad507@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 08:43:05 +0100 From: LB To: "Randy Presuhn" In-Reply-To: <5b0cbc7c0802192330n4289442do32c9a32bd4a4e7e@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <5b0cbc7c0802191730x11640adao46edcc2da998b527@mail.gmail.com> <002601c87365$c9220440$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> <5b0cbc7c0802192330n4289442do32c9a32bd4a4e7e@mail.gmail.com> Cc: LTRU Working Group Subject: Re: [Ltru] should LSRs cooperate ? X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1477026012==" Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org --===============1477026012== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_4293_24064406.1203493385199" ------=_Part_4293_24064406.1203493385199 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Sorry, I forgot to mention the reference of the charter which IMHO justifis my proposition in view of the operational aspects I experiment. "The working group will clarify text where necessary. It may also make adjustments to the registration process and the form of the registry if this is deemed appropriate based on ongoing registration and operational experience. These adjustments and clarifications are not expected to delay the progress of the work." --- LB ------=_Part_4293_24064406.1203493385199 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Sorry, I forgot to mention the reference of the charter which IMHO justifis my  proposition in view of the operational aspects I experiment.

"The working group will clarify text where necessary. It may also
make adjustments to the registration process and the form of the
registry if this is deemed appropriate based on ongoing registration
and operational experience. These adjustments and clarifications
are not expected to delay the progress of the work."

---
LB

------=_Part_4293_24064406.1203493385199-- --===============1477026012== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru --===============1477026012==-- From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 20 02:22:52 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E64B028C117; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 02:22:52 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.997 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.997 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.910, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WRRNLX8R3L9n; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 02:22:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B22828C700; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 02:22:51 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04D6028C396 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 02:22:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZqwQuMu0sJlZ for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 02:22:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx2.nic.fr (mx2.nic.fr [192.134.4.11]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 671D83A696B for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 02:22:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx2.nic.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mx2.nic.fr (Postfix) with SMTP id 9C4F31C012A for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 11:22:32 +0100 (CET) Received: from relay2.nic.fr (relay2.nic.fr [192.134.4.163]) by mx2.nic.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 975AD1C00FE for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 11:22:32 +0100 (CET) Received: from bortzmeyer.nic.fr (batilda.nic.fr [192.134.4.69]) by relay2.nic.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 952CD58E9F2 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 11:22:32 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 11:22:32 +0100 From: Stephane Bortzmeyer To: LTRU Working Group Message-ID: <20080220102232.GA7962@nic.fr> References: <002601c86ab4$6f974020$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <002601c86ab4$6f974020$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> X-Operating-System: Debian GNU/Linux 4.0 X-Kernel: Linux 2.6.18-6-686 i686 Organization: NIC France X-URL: http://www.nic.fr/ User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11) Subject: [Ltru] Implementation report (Was: Begin LTRU WG last call on 4646bis and 4645bis X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1300343043==" Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org --===============1300343043== Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="jI8keyz6grp/JLjh" Content-Disposition: inline --jI8keyz6grp/JLjh Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Feb 08, 2008 at 04:40:57PM -0800, Randy Presuhn wrote=20 a message of 38 lines which said: > 6) comments of the form "I've read this document and have no problems > with it" are also helpful. I've read and reviewed the version -11 of the 4646bis draft in detail, and implemented it, starting from my RFC 4646 implementation (http://www.bortzmeyer.org/gabuzomeu-parsing-language-tags.html). GaBuZoMeu has automatic testing of test sets (see http://www.langtag.net/test-suites.html) and of the registry, which allows detailed testing of the implementation.=20 =46rom this experience, I can say that: * as already discussed on this list, the "irregular" production in the ABNF needs to be extended :-) with the grandfathered tags that used extlangs. * test sets need to be modified to remove extlangs from the set of "well-formed but invalid" tags. "fr-foo" was well-formed, it is no longer. * the changes to accomodate 4646bis are minimal: the new ABNF is much better and the Macrolanguage field is simple to handle and to test (unlike the Prefix field, it can only store a language subtag). The switch to UTF-8 was painful for my host language, which has no standard library to read UTF-8 files :-( But there are several existing non-standard libraries. GaBuZoMeu version 2 (4646bis) now runs 100 % of its test suite. To me, it is an indication that 4646bis, as of version -11, is an usable specification. Is there similar experience from the other implementors? --jI8keyz6grp/JLjh Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFHu/9oQTZHl5fW0kYRApswAKCR9E52B22PBRg84iIGtWnEanq1YgCfaIVp UsLeRKDLxoi6JYE1dC88GY8= =c1wd -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --jI8keyz6grp/JLjh-- --===============1300343043== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru --===============1300343043==-- From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Wed Feb 20 02:41:18 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B967B3A6E4F; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 02:41:18 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.018 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.018 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.069, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SDOaKkdbUljS; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 02:41:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 337183A6E4E; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 02:41:15 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 578F03A6E4C for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 02:41:14 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id X5HPvIy9AIoq for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 02:41:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx2.nic.fr (mx2.nic.fr [192.134.4.11]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB8B43A6E47 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 02:41:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx2.nic.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mx2.nic.fr (Postfix) with SMTP id C478A1C0133 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 11:41:06 +0100 (CET) Received: from relay2.nic.fr (relay2.nic.fr [192.134.4.163]) by mx2.nic.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD8301C0092 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 11:41:06 +0100 (CET) Received: from bortzmeyer.nic.fr (batilda.nic.fr [192.134.4.69]) by relay2.nic.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9B0B58E9F2 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 11:41:06 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 11:41:06 +0100 From: Stephane Bortzmeyer To: LTRU Working Group Message-ID: <20080220104106.GB7962@nic.fr> References: <002601c86ab4$6f974020$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> <20080213084528.GA13771@nic.fr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="ZoaI/ZTpAVc4A5k6" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20080213084528.GA13771@nic.fr> X-Operating-System: Debian GNU/Linux 4.0 X-Kernel: Linux 2.6.18-6-686 i686 Organization: NIC France X-URL: http://www.nic.fr/ User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11) Subject: Re: [Ltru] Some typos (Was: Begin LTRU WG last call on 4646bis and 4645bis X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org --ZoaI/ZTpAVc4A5k6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline On Wed, Feb 13, 2008 at 09:45:28AM +0100, Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote a message of 44 lines which said: > Some purely editorial comments: Here is a patch against -11 (I was not able to find a XML source for the editor's copy) . I incorporated all the changes explained in http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ltru/current/msg09419.html *except* the removal of "primary language subtag", following Mark Davis's uncertainty (http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ltru/current/msg09434.html). I added also the missing "former extlang" grandfathered tags in the "irregular" production of the ABNF. --ZoaI/ZTpAVc4A5k6 Content-Type: text/x-diff; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="draft-ietf-ltru-4646bis-11-bortzmeyer.diff" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable --- draft-ietf-ltru-4646bis-11.xml.orig 2008-02-20 11:27:49.000000000 +0100 +++ draft-ietf-ltru-4646bis-11.xml 2008-02-20 11:34:41.000000000 +0100 @@ -19,7 +19,7 @@ =0D =0D =0D -=0D +=0D ]>=0D = =0D =0D @@ -80,7 +80,7 @@
=0D
Language tags ar= e used to help identify languages, whether spoken, written, signed, or othe= rwise signaled, for the purpose of communication. This includes constructed= and artificial languages, but excludes languages not intended primarily fo= r human communication, such as programming languages.=0D
=0D - The language tag is composed of one or more parts, known as "subtag= s". Each subtag consists of a sequence of alphanumeric characters. Subtags = are distinguished and separated from one another by a hyphen ("-", ABNF %x2D). A language tag consists of a "primary = language" subtag and =0D + The language tag is composed of one or more parts, known as "subtag= s". Each subtag consists of a sequence of alphanumeric characters. Subtags = are distinguished and separated from one another by a hyphen ("-", ABNF %x2D). A language tag consists of a "primary = language" subtag and =0D a (possibly empty) series of subsequent subtags, each of which refines= or narrows the range of languages identified by the overall tag.Usu= ally, each type of subtag is distinguished by =0D length, position in the tag, and content: subtags can be recognized so= lely by these features. The only exception to this is a fixed list of grand= fathered tags registered under RFC 3066. Th= is makes it possible =0D to construct a parser that can extract and assign some semantic inform= ation =0D @@ -88,7 +88,7 @@ parser need not have an up-to-date copy (or any copy at all) of the su= btag registry to=0D perform most searching and matching operations.=0D
=0D - The syntax of the language tag in ABNF is:=0D + The syntax of the language tag in ABNF is:=0D =0D Language-Tag =3D langtag=0D / privateuse ; private use tag=0D @@ -122,11 +122,13 @@ =0D privateuse =3D "x" 1*("-" (1*8alphanum))=0D =0D -irregular =3D "en-GB-oed" / "i-ami" / "i-bnn" / "i-default"=0D - / "i-enochian" / "i-hak" / "i-klingon" / "i-lux" =0D - / "i-mingo" / "i-navajo" / "i-pwn" / "i-tao" =0D - / "i-tay" / "i-tsu" / "sgn-BE-fr" / "sgn-BE-nl" =0D - / "sgn-CH-de" =0D +irregular =3D "en-GB-oed" / "i-ami" / "i-bnn" / "i-default" = =0D + / "i-enochian" / "i-hak" / "i-klingon" / "i-lux" = =0D + / "i-mingo" / "i-navajo" / "i-pwn" / "i-tao" = =0D + / "i-tay" / "i-tsu" / "no-bok" / "no-nyn" = =0D + / "sgn-BE-fr" / "sgn-BE-nl" / "sgn-CH-de" =0D + / "zh-cmn" / "zh-cmn-Hans" / "zh-cmn-Hant" / "zh-gan" = =0D + / "zh-min" / "zh-min-nan" / "zh-wuu" / "zh-yue"=0D =0D alphanum =3D (ALPHA / DIGIT) ; letters and numbers=0D =0D @@ -149,7 +151,7 @@ However, in the tags defined by this document, the uppercase US-ASCII = letters in the range 'A' through 'Z' are considered equivalent and mapped d= irectly to their US-ASCII lowercase equivalents in the range 'a' through 'z= '. Thus, the tag "mn-Cyrl-MN" is not=0D distinct from "MN-cYRL-mn" or "mN-cYrL-Mn" (or any other combination),= and =0D each of these variations conveys the same meaning: Mongolian written i= n the =0D - Cyrillic script as used in Mongolia.Although case distinctions = do not carry meaning in language tags, consistent formatting and presentati= on of the tags will aid users. The format of the tags and subtags in the re= gistry is RECOMMENDED. In this format, all non-initial two-letter subtags a= re uppercase, all non-initial four-letter subtags are titlecase, and all ot= her subtags are lowercase.Note that although refers to octets,=0D + Cyrillic script as used in Mongolia.Although case distinctions = do not carry meaning in language tags, consistent formatting and presentati= on of the tags will aid users. The format of the tags and subtags in the re= gistry is RECOMMENDED. In this format, all non-initial two-letter subtags a= re uppercase, all non-initial four-letter subtags are titlecase, and all ot= her subtags are lowercase.Note that although refers to octets,=0D the language tags described in this document are sequences of characte= rs=0D from the US-ASCII repertoire. Language= tags MAY be used in documents and=0D applications that use other encodings, so long as these encompass the = US-ASCII=0D @@ -290,7 +292,7 @@ =0D =0D
= =0D -Extended language subtags are permanently reserved. They MUST NOT be re= gistered or used to form language tags (except in grandfathered tags). They= were originally created to allow for certain kinds of compatibility mappin= gs which ultimately were not used.=0D +Extended language subtags are permanently reserved. They MUST NOT be re= gistered or used to form language tags (except in grandfathered tags). They= were originally created to allow for certain kinds of compatibility mappin= gs which ultimately were not used. Tags using them are no longer well-forme= d, see for a discussion of the consequences = of this decision on the grammar.=0D =0D

I agree: there is a grammatical problem with “or to be= in any particular language.” I’d suggest alternate wording if I had a = clue what was the intended meaning.

 

Peter.

 

 

From: ltru-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ltru-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of CE Whitehead
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 9:31 AM
To: Addison Phillips
Cc: ltru@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Ltru] RFC4646bis-11 Editorial Comments Only Sections 3= .5, 3.6

 

Addison, thanks for your quick reply.&nb= sp; Regarding the sentence,
"The 'Description' field is used for identification purposes and doesn= 't necessarily represent
the actual native name of the language or variation or to be in any
particular language."
 
Because you  use "or" in this sentence, clauses separated by "or" should be equals grammatically.
 
Th
Thus . . . the first clauses separated by "or" can be read:<= br> * doesn't necessarily represent the actual native name of the language
* doesn't necessarily represent the actual native name of the variation
 
("Doesn't necessarily represent the actual native name of the" is understood for "variation" here; all that gets copied; for more o= n this phenomenom, called reference by ellipsis, see Halliday and Hassan, "Cohesion in English")
 
the last "or" could be 'or'd with either the whole clau= se following the "and" and would read:
 
* doesn't necessarily represent to be in any particular language"
 
I don't think you'd say:
 
" doesn't necessarily represent the actual native name of the to be in= any particular language"
 
I know you want to say:
 
"Doesn't necessarily represent the actual native name [of the language= ] to be in any particular language"
 
but you can't because you are looking for another noun here, parallel with "variation" -- once you've used "variation" in the slot it is in, other nouns would go in the same slot.  If you use a ve= rb it will go way higher up.
I'm going to think more about this sentence and try to explain why it's not grammatical.
 
--C. E. Whitehead
cewcathar@hotmail.com
 


<
>
> CE Whitehead wrote:
> >
> >
> > { Section 3.5, p. 34; 1 paragraph up from bottom}
> > The 'Description' field
> > is used for identification purposes and doesn't necessarily repre= sent
> > the actual native name of the language or variation or to be in a= ny
> > particular language.
> >
> >
> > =3D>
> > The 'Description' field
> > is used for identification purposes and doesn't necessarily repre= sent
> > the actual native name of the language or variation nor is it ass= umed to
> > be in any particular language;
> > { COMMENT: Grammar is not right; there is a missing helping verb before
> > "to be;" "represent" just is not the right helping verb . . . "represent
> > . . . to be . . .?" Represent what to be . . . ! }
> >
>
> Editor hat on: it is grammatical and properly formed English as it is.=
> The sentence is rather long, verging on being a run-on. I think you're=
> reading it wrong.
>
> As it sits, the sentence conveys three things:
>
> - the field is used for identification
> - it doesn't have to represent the actual native name
> - it shouldn't be assumed that it is in any other particular language = either
>
> I may split it into several sentences.
 
I would do that maybe.
>
> Your other comments I will read when I get to them.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Addison
>
> --
> Addison Phillips
> Globalization Architect -- Yahoo! Inc.
> Chair -- W3C Internationalization Core WG
>
> Internationalization is an architecture.
> It is not a feature.

--_000_DDB6DE6E9D27DD478AE6D1BBBB83579562DE4CA8B6NAEXMSGC117re_-- --===============1364666297== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru --===============1364666297==-- From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Thu Feb 21 10:28:15 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CEB028CA3C; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 10:28:15 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.798 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.798 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.361, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bo+zO1+Qzvkw; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 10:28:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D3323A6CFA; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 10:28:14 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD6AA3A6CEA for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 10:28:12 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Jj+TkPADrt5d for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 10:28:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from rsmtp2.corp.yahoo.com (rsmtp2.corp.yahoo.com [207.126.228.150]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1912F3A6CFA for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 10:28:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.72.72.149] (snvvpn1-10-72-72-c149.corp.yahoo.com [10.72.72.149]) by rsmtp2.corp.yahoo.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/y.rout) with ESMTP id m1LIRlkr022216; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 10:27:47 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; s=serpent; d=yahoo-inc.com; c=nofws; q=dns; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject: references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=DQ2s0ebRssVV/RVzXb+72ahwhGL7BUxriW6eBlOIXjT8yR40/vjvDLKApvLZ3+Cq Message-ID: <47BDC2A2.3080900@yahoo-inc.com> Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 10:27:46 -0800 From: Addison Phillips User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Peter Constable References: <47BDB190.5050301@yahoo-inc.com> In-Reply-To: Cc: CE Whitehead , "ltru@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Ltru] RFC4646bis-11 Editorial Comments Only Sections 3.5, 3.6 X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org U2luY2UgaXQgaXMgYm9yZGVybGluZSBydW4tb24gYW55d2F5LCBJIGhhdmUgc3BsaXQgaXQgaW50 byBzZXZlcmFsIApzZW50ZW5jZXMgdGhhdCBzaG91bGQgbWFrZSB0aGUgcG9pbnQgY2xlYXI6Cgo8 dD5UaGUgJ0Rlc2NyaXB0aW9uJyBmaWVsZCBpcyB1c2VkIGZvciBpZGVudGlmaWNhdGlvbiBwdXJw b3Nlcy4gSXQgCmRvZXNuJ3QgbmVjZXNzYXJpbHkgcmVwcmVzZW50IHRoZSBhY3R1YWwgbmF0aXZl IG5hbWUgb2YgdGhlIGl0ZW0gaW4gdGhlIApyZWNvcmQsIG5vciBhcmUgYW55IG9mIHRoZSBkZXNj cmlwdGlvbnMgZ3VhcmFudGVlZCB0byBiZSBpbiBhbnkgCnBhcnRpY3VsYXIgbGFuZ3VhZ2UgKHN1 Y2ggYXMgRW5nbGlzaCBvciBGcmVuY2gsIGZvciBleGFtcGxlKS48L3Q+CgpBZGRpc29uCgpQZXRl ciBDb25zdGFibGUgd3JvdGU6Cj4gSSBhZ3JlZTogdGhlcmUgaXMgYSBncmFtbWF0aWNhbCBwcm9i bGVtIHdpdGgg4oCcb3IgdG8gYmUgaW4gYW55IHBhcnRpY3VsYXIgCj4gbGFuZ3VhZ2Uu4oCdIEni gJlkIHN1Z2dlc3QgYWx0ZXJuYXRlIHdvcmRpbmcgaWYgSSBoYWQgYSBjbHVlIHdoYXQgd2FzIHRo ZSAKPiBpbnRlbmRlZCBtZWFuaW5nLgo+IAo+ICAKPiAKPiBQZXRlci4KPiAKPiAgCj4gCj4gIAo+ 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LgpfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXwpMdHJ1IG1h aWxpbmcgbGlzdApMdHJ1QGlldGYub3JnCmh0dHA6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0 aW5mby9sdHJ1Cg== From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Thu Feb 21 10:33:17 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8618528CAC7; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 10:33:17 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.972 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.972 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.409, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, HTML_MESSAGE=1, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qn-r1yIJaDwc; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 10:33:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E845D28CADB; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 10:33:11 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4ACDA28C717 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 10:33:11 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id raX-oZDNYFqU for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 10:33:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from blu139-omc2-s4.blu139.hotmail.com (blu139-omc2-s4.blu139.hotmail.com [65.55.175.174]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4C8B28CAC7 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 10:31:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from BLU109-W49 ([65.55.162.185]) by blu139-omc2-s4.blu139.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Thu, 21 Feb 2008 10:31:53 -0800 Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [168.12.253.66] From: CE Whitehead To: Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 13:31:53 -0500 Importance: Normal MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 Feb 2008 18:31:53.0470 (UTC) FILETIME=[07DBA9E0:01C874B8] Subject: Re: [Ltru] RFC4646bis-11 Editorial Comments Only Sections 3.5, 3.6 X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1751988047==" Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org --===============1751988047== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_6367c8c8-9b85-4394-a1bc-99eccda66e51_" --_6367c8c8-9b85-4394-a1bc-99eccda66e51_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi. I goofed in my last email:> Addison, thanks for your quick reply. Reg= arding the sentence,> "The 'Description' field is used for identification p= urposes and doesn't necessarily represent> the actual native name of the la= nguage or variation or to be in any> particular language."=20 The sentence is not grammatical yes, but . . . mainly because you do not want to say here, "doesn't represent the actual n= ative name of the language . . . to be in any particular language"--it's al= l the information in the description field you are talking about, not just = names, but all information. Thanks. =20 And sorry for the last email. (I got a bit carried away.) --C. E. Whiteheadcewcathar@hotmail.com = --_6367c8c8-9b85-4394-a1bc-99eccda66e51_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi.  I goofed in my last email:
> Addison, thanks for your quick= reply.  Regarding the sentence,
> "The 'Description' field is u= sed for identification purposes and doesn't necessarily represent
> t= he actual native name of the language or variation or to be in any
> = particular language."
 
The sentence is not grammatical yes, but . . .
mainly because you do not want to say here, "doesn't represent the actual n= ative name of the language . . . to be in any particular language"--it's al= l the information in the description field you are talking about, not just = names, but all information.
Thanks.
 
And sorry for the last email.  (I got a bit carried away.)

--C. E. Whitehead
cewcathar@hotmail.com

= --_6367c8c8-9b85-4394-a1bc-99eccda66e51_-- --===============1751988047== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru --===============1751988047==-- From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Thu Feb 21 10:33:20 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9074828CAEC; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 10:33:20 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.906 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.906 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.343, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, HTML_MESSAGE=1, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZVYsSsVnr7mC; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 10:33:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E45F28C1F7; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 10:33:19 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3F8628CAC7 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 10:33:17 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uKrWhFXbaBv2 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 10:33:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from blu139-omc1-s3.blu139.hotmail.com (blu139-omc1-s3.blu139.hotmail.com [65.55.175.143]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C30903A6CF9 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 10:32:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from BLU109-W14 ([65.55.162.183]) by blu139-omc1-s3.blu139.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Thu, 21 Feb 2008 10:32:55 -0800 Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [168.12.253.66] From: CE Whitehead To: Addison Phillips , Peter Constable Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 13:32:54 -0500 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <47BDC2A2.3080900@yahoo-inc.com> References: <47BDB190.5050301@yahoo-inc.com> <47BDC2A2.3080900@yahoo-inc.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 Feb 2008 18:32:55.0186 (UTC) FILETIME=[2CA4C720:01C874B8] Cc: "ltru@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Ltru] RFC4646bis-11 Editorial Comments Only Sections 3.5, 3.6 X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1859401411==" Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org --===============1859401411== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_2947e128-dc8e-4f54-a8f4-9fba23a0e623_" --_2947e128-dc8e-4f54-a8f4-9fba23a0e623_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks! The new sentence works! =20 --C. E. Whitehead cewcathar@hotmail.com > From: addison@yahoo-inc.com> Since it is borderline= run-on anyway, I have split it into several > sentences that should make t= he point clear:> > The 'Description' field is used for identification pu= rposes. It > doesn't necessarily represent the actual native name of the it= em in the > record, nor are any of the descriptions guaranteed to be in any= > particular language (such as English or French, for example).> > Add= ison> > Peter Constable wrote:> > I agree: there is a grammatical problem w= ith =93or to be in any particular > > language.=94 I=92d suggest alternate = wording if I had a clue what was the > > intended meaning.> > > > > > > > P= eter.> > > > > > > > > > > > *From:* ltru-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ltru-bou= nces@ietf.org] *On Behalf > > Of *CE Whitehead> > *Sent:* Thursday, Februar= y 21, 2008 9:31 AM> > *To:* Addison Phillips> > *Cc:* ltru@ietf.org> > *Sub= ject:* Re: [Ltru] RFC4646bis-11 Editorial Comments Only Sections > > 3.5, 3= .6> > > > > > > > Addison, thanks for your quick reply. Regarding the sente= nce,> > "The 'Description' field is used for identification purposes and do= esn't > > necessarily represent> > the actual native name of the language o= r variation or to be in any> > particular language."> > > > Because you use= "or" in this sentence, clauses separated by "or" should > > be equals gram= matically.> > > > Th> > Thus . . . the first clauses separated by "or" can = be read:> > * doesn't necessarily represent the actual native name of the l= anguage> > * doesn't necessarily represent the actual native name of the va= riation> > > > ("Doesn't necessarily represent the actual native name of th= e" is > > understood for "variation" here; all that gets copied; for more o= n this > > phenomenom, called reference by ellipsis, see Halliday and Hassa= n, > > "Cohesion in English")> > > > the last "or" could be 'or'd with eith= er the whole clause following the > > "and" and would read:> > > > * doesn'= t necessarily represent to be in any particular language"> > > > I don't th= ink you'd say:> > > > " doesn't necessarily represent the actual native nam= e of the to be in > > any particular language"> > > > I know you want to sa= y:> > > > "Doesn't necessarily represent the actual native name [of the lan= guage] > > to be in any particular language"> > > > but you can't because y= ou are looking for another noun here, parallel > > with "variation" -- once= you've used "variation" in the slot it is in, > > other nouns would go in = the same slot. If you use a verb it will go way > > higher up.> > I'm going= to think more about this sentence and try to explain why it's > > not gram= matical.> > > > --C. E. Whitehead> > cewcathar@hotmail.com > > > > > > > > <> >>> >> CE Whitehead wrote:> >> >> >> >> >>= > { Section 3.5, p. 34; 1 paragraph up from bottom}> >> > The 'Description= ' field> >> > is used for identification purposes and doesn't necessarily r= epresent> >> > the actual native name of the language or variation or to be= in any> >> > particular language.> >> >> >> >> >> > =3D>> >> > The 'Descri= ption' field> >> > is used for identification purposes and doesn't necessar= ily represent> >> > the actual native name of the language or variation nor= is it > > assumed to> >> > be in any particular language;> >> > { COMMENT:= Grammar is not right; there is a missing helping verb before> >> > "to be;= " "represent" just is not the right helping verb . . . > > "represent> >> >= . . . to be . . .?" Represent what to be . . . ! }> >> >> >>> >> Editor ha= t on: it is grammatical and properly formed English as it is.> >> The sente= nce is rather long, verging on being a run-on. I think you're> >> reading i= t wrong.> >>> >> As it sits, the sentence conveys three things:> >>> >> - t= he field is used for identification> >> - it doesn't have to represent the = actual native name> >> - it shouldn't be assumed that it is in any other pa= rticular language > > either> >>> >> I may split it into several sentences.= > > > > I would do that maybe.> >>> >> Your other comments I will read when= I get to them.> >>> >> Thanks,> >>> >> Addison> >>> >> --> >> Addison Phil= lips> >> Globalization Architect -- Yahoo! Inc.> >> Chair -- W3C Internatio= nalization Core WG> >>> >> Internationalization is an architecture.> >> It = is not a feature.> > > > > -- > Addison Phillips> Globalization Architect -= - Yahoo! Inc.> Chair -- W3C Internationalization Core WG> > Internationaliz= ation is an architecture.> It is not a feature.= --_2947e128-dc8e-4f54-a8f4-9fba23a0e623_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Thanks!  The new sentence works!
 
--C. E. Whitehead
cewcathar@hotmail.com
>= From: addison@yahoo-inc.com
> Since it is borderline run-on anyway, = I have split it into several
> sentences that should make the point = clear:
>
> <t>The 'Description' field is used for identi= fication purposes. It
> doesn't necessarily represent the actual nat= ive name of the item in the
> record, nor are any of the description= s guaranteed to be in any
> particular language (such as English or = French, for example).</t>
>
> Addison
>
> P= eter Constable wrote:
> > I agree: there is a grammatical problem = with =93or to be in any particular
> > language.=94 I=92d suggest= alternate wording if I had a clue what was the
> > intended mean= ing.
> >
> >
> >
> > Peter.
> = >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > = *From:* ltru-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ltru-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf > > Of *CE Whitehead
> > *Sent:* Thursday, February 21, 200= 8 9:31 AM
> > *To:* Addison Phillips
> > *Cc:* ltru@ietf.= org
> > *Subject:* Re: [Ltru] RFC4646bis-11 Editorial Comments Onl= y Sections
> > 3.5, 3.6
> >
> >
> > =
> > Addison, thanks for your quick reply. Regarding the sentence,=
> > "The 'Description' field is used for identification purposes = and doesn't
> > necessarily represent
> > the actual nat= ive name of the language or variation or to be in any
> > particul= ar language."
> >
> > Because you use "or" in this sente= nce, clauses separated by "or" should
> > be equals grammatically= .
> >
> > Th
> > Thus . . . the first clauses s= eparated by "or" can be read:
> > * doesn't necessarily represent = the actual native name of the language
> > * doesn't necessarily r= epresent the actual native name of the variation
> >
> >= ("Doesn't necessarily represent the actual native name of the" is
>= > understood for "variation" here; all that gets copied; for more on th= is
> > phenomenom, called reference by ellipsis, see Halliday and= Hassan,
> > "Cohesion in English")
> >
> > th= e last "or" could be 'or'd with either the whole clause following the
&= gt; > "and" and would read:
> >
> > * doesn't necessa= rily represent to be in any particular language"
> >
> >= I don't think you'd say:
> >
> > " doesn't necessarily = represent the actual native name of the to be in
> > any particul= ar language"
> >
> > I know you want to say:
> >= ;
> > "Doesn't necessarily represent the actual native name [of t= he language]
> > to be in any particular language"
> > <= BR>> > but you can't because you are looking for another noun here, p= arallel
> > with "variation" -- once you've used "variation" in t= he slot it is in,
> > other nouns would go in the same slot. If y= ou use a verb it will go way
> > higher up.
> > I'm goin= g to think more about this sentence and try to explain why it's
> &g= t; not grammatical.
> >
> > --C. E. Whitehead
> &g= t; cewcathar@hotmail.com <mailto:cewcathar@hotmail.com>
> > =
> >
> >
> > <
> >>
> >= ;> CE Whitehead wrote:
> >> >
> >> >
&g= t; >> > { Section 3.5, p. 34; 1 paragraph up from bottom}
> = >> > The 'Description' field
> >> > is used for ide= ntification purposes and doesn't necessarily represent
> >> >= ; the actual native name of the language or variation or to be in any
&g= t; >> > particular language.
> >> >
> >>= ; >
> >> > =3D>
> >> > The 'Description= ' field
> >> > is used for identification purposes and doesn= 't necessarily represent
> >> > the actual native name of th= e language or variation nor is it
> > assumed to
> >>= > be in any particular language;
> >> > { COMMENT: Gramm= ar is not right; there is a missing helping verb before
> >> &g= t; "to be;" "represent" just is not the right helping verb . . .
> &= gt; "represent
> >> > . . . to be . . .?" Represent what to = be . . . ! }
> >> >
> >>
> >> Editor= hat on: it is grammatical and properly formed English as it is.
> &g= t;> The sentence is rather long, verging on being a run-on. I think you'= re
> >> reading it wrong.
> >>
> >> As = it sits, the sentence conveys three things:
> >>
> >&g= t; - the field is used for identification
> >> - it doesn't hav= e to represent the actual native name
> >> - it shouldn't be as= sumed that it is in any other particular language
> > either
&= gt; >>
> >> I may split it into several sentences.
>= ; >
> > I would do that maybe.
> >>
> >&g= t; Your other comments I will read when I get to them.
> >>
= > >> Thanks,
> >>
> >> Addison
> >= ;>
> >> --
> >> Addison Phillips
> >>= ; Globalization Architect -- Yahoo! Inc.
> >> Chair -- W3C Inte= rnationalization Core WG
> >>
> >> Internationaliza= tion is an architecture.
> >> It is not a feature.
> >=
>
>
> --
> Addison Phillips
> Globalizat= ion Architect -- Yahoo! Inc.
> Chair -- W3C Internationalization Core= WG
>
> Internationalization is an architecture.
> It is= not a feature.

= --_2947e128-dc8e-4f54-a8f4-9fba23a0e623_-- --===============1859401411== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru --===============1859401411==-- From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Thu Feb 21 10:33:50 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A729A28CA62; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 10:33:50 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.347 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.347 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.838, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, HTML_MESSAGE=1, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vAE9yMjVzWOQ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 10:33:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 578B528C1F7; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 10:33:49 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E85F03A6CF5 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 10:33:48 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nfKtk2HPDHvN for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 10:33:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com (ug-out-1314.google.com [66.249.92.174]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79B9328C717 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 10:33:42 -0800 (PST) Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id u2so2767924uge.46 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 10:33:38 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references:x-google-sender-auth; bh=iGnQA49xoUUS7TVZhLbfVkA5Mq3+1r8tmQYxfJoSiZ4=; b=J/lvFgncsMGiksQ8pZ2lZX8kIgoBuwWAlwcrEOfXZHl5CJ42Si3cDl0px8pab1lsikvAHbcwv99SQVCMpt+8N9dwtK0fkPrmvyQ3qDP6X6J+vXtHaT0cW7uSbbOOG0U+sYGQTbT4YrbhQxHcuFbdo+bFJE9JAQ52hhGS3FjSYA4= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references:x-google-sender-auth; b=AY9MUabXXVndC2XYXJ1KUYrAl0JIMSndQXba4Q2Lk/dMOglyLfbmPszlD6zlTXQ1misbvqDEKvM72XekzIBvoeskSugMJIVVr2CM9B1oOf+cIBGygVqb7DLtBeoIqO/TJPWkyxO5+bSNrnTwFwoKqFvhBnl7iTsYW0It5KSBi2A= Received: by 10.142.133.15 with SMTP id g15mr668695wfd.9.1203618816671; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 10:33:36 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.143.174.8 with HTTP; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 10:33:36 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <30b660a20802211033ocbe835av505f3250b0e9c92c@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 10:33:36 -0800 From: "Mark Davis" To: "Addison Phillips" In-Reply-To: <47BDC2A2.3080900@yahoo-inc.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <47BDB190.5050301@yahoo-inc.com> <47BDC2A2.3080900@yahoo-inc.com> X-Google-Sender-Auth: d22b202d9f2d28e1 Cc: CE Whitehead , "ltru@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Ltru] RFC4646bis-11 Editorial Comments Only Sections 3.5, 3.6 X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0563862668==" Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org --===============0563862668== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_7146_13254524.1203618816666" ------=_Part_7146_13254524.1203618816666 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline +1 On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 10:27 AM, Addison Phillips wrote: > Since it is borderline run-on anyway, I have split it into several > sentences that should make the point clear: > > The 'Description' field is used for identification purposes. It > doesn't necessarily represent the actual native name of the item in the > record, nor are any of the descriptions guaranteed to be in any > particular language (such as English or French, for example). > > Addison > > Peter Constable wrote: > > I agree: there is a grammatical problem with "or to be in any particular > > language." I'd suggest alternate wording if I had a clue what was the > > intended meaning. > > > > > > > > Peter. > > > > > > > > > > > > *From:* ltru-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ltru-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf > > Of *CE Whitehead > > *Sent:* Thursday, February 21, 2008 9:31 AM > > *To:* Addison Phillips > > *Cc:* ltru@ietf.org > > *Subject:* Re: [Ltru] RFC4646bis-11 Editorial Comments Only Sections > > 3.5, 3.6 > > > > > > > > Addison, thanks for your quick reply. Regarding the sentence, > > "The 'Description' field is used for identification purposes and doesn't > > necessarily represent > > the actual native name of the language or variation or to be in any > > particular language." > > > > Because you use "or" in this sentence, clauses separated by "or" should > > be equals grammatically. > > > > Th > > Thus . . . the first clauses separated by "or" can be read: > > * doesn't necessarily represent the actual native name of the language > > * doesn't necessarily represent the actual native name of the variation > > > > ("Doesn't necessarily represent the actual native name of the" is > > understood for "variation" here; all that gets copied; for more on this > > phenomenom, called reference by ellipsis, see Halliday and Hassan, > > "Cohesion in English") > > > > the last "or" could be 'or'd with either the whole clause following the > > "and" and would read: > > > > * doesn't necessarily represent to be in any particular language" > > > > I don't think you'd say: > > > > " doesn't necessarily represent the actual native name of the to be in > > any particular language" > > > > I know you want to say: > > > > "Doesn't necessarily represent the actual native name [of the language] > > to be in any particular language" > > > > but you can't because you are looking for another noun here, parallel > > with "variation" -- once you've used "variation" in the slot it is in, > > other nouns would go in the same slot. If you use a verb it will go way > > higher up. > > I'm going to think more about this sentence and try to explain why it's > > not grammatical. > > > > --C. E. Whitehead > > cewcathar@hotmail.com > > > > > > > > < > >> > >> CE Whitehead wrote: > >> > > >> > > >> > { Section 3.5, p. 34; 1 paragraph up from bottom} > >> > The 'Description' field > >> > is used for identification purposes and doesn't necessarily > represent > >> > the actual native name of the language or variation or to be in any > >> > particular language. > >> > > >> > > >> > => > >> > The 'Description' field > >> > is used for identification purposes and doesn't necessarily > represent > >> > the actual native name of the language or variation nor is it > > assumed to > >> > be in any particular language; > >> > { COMMENT: Grammar is not right; there is a missing helping verb > before > >> > "to be;" "represent" just is not the right helping verb . . . > > "represent > >> > . . . to be . . .?" Represent what to be . . . ! } > >> > > >> > >> Editor hat on: it is grammatical and properly formed English as it is. > >> The sentence is rather long, verging on being a run-on. I think you're > >> reading it wrong. > >> > >> As it sits, the sentence conveys three things: > >> > >> - the field is used for identification > >> - it doesn't have to represent the actual native name > >> - it shouldn't be assumed that it is in any other particular language > > either > >> > >> I may split it into several sentences. > > > > I would do that maybe. > >> > >> Your other comments I will read when I get to them. > >> > >> Thanks, > >> > >> Addison > >> > >> -- > >> Addison Phillips > >> Globalization Architect -- Yahoo! Inc. > >> Chair -- W3C Internationalization Core WG > >> > >> Internationalization is an architecture. > >> It is not a feature. > > > > > -- > Addison Phillips > Globalization Architect -- Yahoo! Inc. > Chair -- W3C Internationalization Core WG > > Internationalization is an architecture. > It is not a feature. > _______________________________________________ > Ltru mailing list > Ltru@ietf.org > http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru > -- Mark ------=_Part_7146_13254524.1203618816666 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline +1

On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 10:27 AM, Addison Phillips <addison@yahoo-inc.com> wrote:
Since it is borderline run-on anyway, I have split it into several
sentences that should make the point clear:

<t>The 'Description' field is used for identification purposes. It
doesn't necessarily represent the actual native name of the item in the
record, nor are any of the descriptions guaranteed to be in any
particular language (such as English or French, for example).</t>

Addison

Peter Constable wrote:
> I agree: there is a grammatical problem with "or to be in any particular
> language." I'd suggest alternate wording if I had a clue what was the
> intended meaning.
>
>
>
> Peter.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* ltru-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ltru-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf
> Of *CE Whitehead
> *Sent:* Thursday, February 21, 2008 9:31 AM
> *To:* Addison Phillips
> *Cc:* ltru@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Ltru] RFC4646bis-11 Editorial Comments Only Sections
> 3.5, 3.6
>
>
>
> Addison, thanks for your quick reply.  Regarding the sentence,
> "The 'Description' field is used for identification purposes and doesn't
> necessarily represent
> the actual native name of the language or variation or to be in any
> particular language."
>
> Because you  use "or" in this sentence, clauses separated by "or" should
> be equals grammatically.
>
> Th
> Thus . . . the first clauses separated by "or" can be read:
> * doesn't necessarily represent the actual native name of the language
> * doesn't necessarily represent the actual native name of the variation
>
> ("Doesn't necessarily represent the actual native name of the" is
> understood for "variation" here; all that gets copied; for more on this
> phenomenom, called reference by ellipsis, see Halliday and Hassan,
> "Cohesion in English")
>
> the last "or" could be 'or'd with either the whole clause following the
> "and" and would read:
>
> * doesn't necessarily represent to be in any particular language"
>
> I don't think you'd say:
>
> " doesn't necessarily represent the actual native name of the to be in
> any particular language"
>
> I know you want to say:
>
> "Doesn't necessarily represent the actual native name [of the language]
> to be in any particular language"
>
> but you can't because you are looking for another noun here, parallel
> with "variation" -- once you've used "variation" in the slot it is in,
> other nouns would go in the same slot.  If you use a verb it will go way
> higher up.
> I'm going to think more about this sentence and try to explain why it's
> not grammatical.
>
> --C. E. Whitehead
> cewcathar@hotmail.com <mailto:cewcathar@hotmail.com>
>
>
>
> <
>>
>>  CE Whitehead wrote:
>>  >
>>  >
>>  > { Section 3.5, p. 34; 1 paragraph up from bottom}
>>  > The 'Description' field
>>  > is used for identification purposes and doesn't necessarily represent
>>  > the actual native name of the language or variation or to be in any
>>  > particular language.
>>  >
>>  >
>>  > =>
>>  > The 'Description' field
>>  > is used for identification purposes and doesn't necessarily represent
>>  > the actual native name of the language or variation nor is it
> assumed to
>>  > be in any particular language;
>>  > { COMMENT: Grammar is not right; there is a missing helping verb before
>>  > "to be;" "represent" just is not the right helping verb . . .
> "represent
>>  > . . . to be . . .?" Represent what to be . . . ! }
>>  >
>>
>>  Editor hat on: it is grammatical and properly formed English as it is.
>>  The sentence is rather long, verging on being a run-on. I think you're
>>  reading it wrong.
>>
>>  As it sits, the sentence conveys three things:
>>
>>  - the field is used for identification
>>  - it doesn't have to represent the actual native name
>>  - it shouldn't be assumed that it is in any other particular language
> either
>>
>>  I may split it into several sentences.
>
> I would do that maybe.
>>
>>  Your other comments I will read when I get to them.
>>
>>  Thanks,
>>
>>  Addison
>>
>>  --
>>  Addison Phillips
>>  Globalization Architect -- Yahoo! Inc.
>>  Chair -- W3C Internationalization Core WG
>>
>>  Internationalization is an architecture.
>>  It is not a feature.
>


--
Addison Phillips
Globalization Architect -- Yahoo! Inc.
Chair -- W3C Internationalization Core WG

Internationalization is an architecture.
It is not a feature.
_______________________________________________
Ltru mailing list
Ltru@ietf.org
http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru



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Mark ------=_Part_7146_13254524.1203618816666-- --===============0563862668== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru --===============0563862668==-- From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Thu Feb 21 11:01:48 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BD9F28C65C; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 11:01:48 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.832 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.832 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.605, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cBEz8wVAXrag; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 11:01:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B5D13A6CFA; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 11:01:44 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FF993A6CFA for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 11:01:43 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tavoybZ1+FRh for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 11:01:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from rsmtp1.corp.yahoo.com (rsmtp1.corp.yahoo.com [207.126.228.149]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 387933A6D00 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 11:01:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.72.72.149] (snvvpn1-10-72-72-c149.corp.yahoo.com [10.72.72.149]) by rsmtp1.corp.yahoo.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/y.rout) with ESMTP id m1LJ1GYD053174; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 11:01:16 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; s=serpent; d=yahoo-inc.com; c=nofws; q=dns; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject: references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=MxEuw3dXdMrnfndIal7RuP4QQwrWcUICBg/5uGKXjgbHSm69oK2UsqTO6dRjaC2a Message-ID: <47BDCA7C.7010501@yahoo-inc.com> Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 11:01:16 -0800 From: Addison Phillips User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mark Davis References: <002601c86ab4$6f974020$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> <20080213084528.GA13771@nic.fr> <30b660a20802131017i4565981s2d0d7ad746359a39@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <30b660a20802131017i4565981s2d0d7ad746359a39@mail.gmail.com> Cc: LTRU Working Group Subject: Re: [Ltru] Some typos (Was: Begin LTRU WG last call on 4646bis and 4645bis X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Editor hat on except as noted. Changes to be posted to editor's copy in a couple of minutes. > > 1) The most important: "extended language subtags" or similar > expressions appear in a lot of places despite extlang removal. Do we > agree they should all be suppressed? (See for instance "Codes assigned > by ISO 639-2 that do not conflict with existing three-letter primary > or extended language subtags are entered into the IANA registry" or > "Extension subtags MUST follow all language, extended language, > script, region, and variant subtag" or, worse, "Extended language > subtags MUST include exactly one 'Prefix' field".) > > > +1 DONE. All instances of extlang removed. Some editorial work on the extlang section was completed and references to them handled as appropriate. > > 2) Now that extended language subtags are obsolete (before being > used), do we want to retain the "primary language" terminology? It is > a bit strange that we talk about "primary language subtags" while > there is no secondary language subtags anymore. May be a 's/primary > language subtag/language subtag/g' everywhere? > > > I'm of two minds about this. Formally, that's true, but it may be worth > retaining the 'primary' because one could think of a language tag as > being composed of a sequence of "language subtags". We don't, but > someone could. So it might be worth retaining the 'primary' for clarity. Primary is inherited from RFC 1766 days. NO CHANGE. > 3) In 2.2.2 "Extended Language Subtags", add a reference to 2.2.9 > "Classes of Conformance" because of the discussion on the 'extlang' > production in 2.2.9. I suggest at the end of 2.2.2 "See also 2.2.9 for > a discussion of the consequences of this decision on the grammar." > +1 DONE. > > > > 4) In 8, "It also permanently reserves and disallows the use of > extlang subtags. The changes necessary to achieve this were: > * something". Replace "something" by: > > * New ABNF grammar excluding the "extlang" production (see 2.2.9) > * New Macrolanguage field (see 3.1.9) > > > +1 DONE. > > > > 5) All references to RFC 4234 should be replaced by references to RFC > 5234 (no consequences for us since we do not use LWSP) > DONE. -- Addison Phillips Globalization Architect -- Yahoo! Inc. Chair -- W3C Internationalization Core WG Internationalization is an architecture. It is not a feature. _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Thu Feb 21 11:20:38 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A92728C9DE; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 11:20:38 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.843 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.843 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.406, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FiPE9oKQNjzw; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 11:20:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 199D328C71E; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 11:20:37 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 886B628C29D for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 11:20:36 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7KkzqEIgmdSN for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 11:20:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from rsmtp1.corp.yahoo.com (rsmtp1.corp.yahoo.com [207.126.228.149]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9286028C611 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 11:20:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.72.72.149] (snvvpn1-10-72-72-c149.corp.yahoo.com [10.72.72.149]) by rsmtp1.corp.yahoo.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/y.rout) with ESMTP id m1LJKC2p054601; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 11:20:12 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; s=serpent; d=yahoo-inc.com; c=nofws; q=dns; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject: references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=TuvwuA46yUhlTWCQmF9R9/Nh0/GLA+9qBglQWoc/aBDPik1Pezjtvrq7QwZYz7sY Message-ID: <47BDCEEC.5030802@yahoo-inc.com> Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 11:20:12 -0800 From: Addison Phillips User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: debbie@ictmarketing.co.uk References: <478D27D7.4050404@yahoo-inc.com> <30b660a20801151415lf48393ew2b637117dbac6e57@mail.gmail.com> <18df01c85826$a028d050$0b00a8c0@CPQ86763045110> In-Reply-To: <18df01c85826$a028d050$0b00a8c0@CPQ86763045110> Cc: Karen_Broome@spe.sony.com, ltru@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Ltru] Proposed note on well-formed but not valid language tags X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org An old thread being dealt with here. Debbie Garside wrote: > So do you agree with the following? Yes, but some wording and example changes seemed necessary. > > > Language tags may be well formed in terms of syntax but not valid in > terms of content. Users MUST NOT assign and use their own subtags, other > than private use codes as designated within the underlying standards, as > they may find an as yet unassigned subtag may be officially assigned at > a later date with a different meaning. > > I put in: Language tags may be well-formed in terms of syntax but not valid in terms of content. Users MUST NOT assign and use their own subtags, other than private-use sequences (such as "en-x-personal") or by using subtags designated as private-use in the registry (such as "no-QQ", where 'QQ' is one of a range of private-use ISO 3166 codes). Otherwise they risk finding later that their previously unassigned subtag was assigned a meaning that conflicts with their chosen usage. Addison -- Addison Phillips Globalization Architect -- Yahoo! Inc. Chair -- W3C Internationalization Core WG Internationalization is an architecture. It is not a feature. _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Thu Feb 21 11:22:49 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5D3F28C8FE; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 11:22:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.832 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.832 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.395, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id puRvPw3qveUB; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 11:22:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62B5C28C71E; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 11:22:44 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF5E928C71E for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 11:22:43 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id p2h+oZ9GteqD for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 11:22:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from rsmtp1.corp.yahoo.com (rsmtp1.corp.yahoo.com [207.126.228.149]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59F4D28C67F for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 11:22:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.72.72.149] (snvvpn1-10-72-72-c149.corp.yahoo.com [10.72.72.149]) by rsmtp1.corp.yahoo.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/y.rout) with ESMTP id m1LJMWDT054762; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 11:22:32 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; s=serpent; d=yahoo-inc.com; c=nofws; q=dns; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject: references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=FZ7Bg/iR404pEWEBLWeMpDXwF7+s/Au5jBFwW9m2BZqMJshFwCgghP2mWFBbE/ij Message-ID: <47BDCF78.2090907@yahoo-inc.com> Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 11:22:32 -0800 From: Addison Phillips User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Doug Ewell References: <006401c87258$08a0bee0$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> In-Reply-To: <006401c87258$08a0bee0$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> Cc: LTRU Working Group Subject: Re: [Ltru] Proposal to add new tags to the 'irregular' production X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org RWRpdG9yIGhhdCBvbjogRE9ORS4KCkFkZGlzb24KCkRvdWcgRXdlbGwgd3JvdGU6Cj4gSm9obiBD b3dhbiA8Y293YW4gYXQgY2NpbCBkb3Qgb3JnPiB3cm90ZToKPiAKPj4gUGVyIFN0ZXBoYW5lIEJv cnR6bWV5ZXIncyBlbWFpbCwgSSBwcm9wb3NlIGFkZGluZyB0aGUgZm9sbG93aW5nIHRhZ3MgCj4+ IHRvIHRoZSAnaXJyZWd1bGFyJyBwcm9kdWN0aW9uOgo+Pgo+PiAgICBuby1ib2ssIG5vLW55biwg emgtY21uLCB6aC1jbW4tSGFucywgemgtY21uLUhhbnQsCj4+ICAgIHpoLWdhbiwgemgtbWluLCB6 aC13dXUsIHpoLXl1ZQo+IAo+ICJ6aC1taW4tbmFuIiBuZWVkcyB0byBiZSBhZGRlZCB0byB0aGlz IGxpc3QsIGFzIFN0w6lwaGFuZSBub3RlZC4KPiAKPiBUaGUgd2hvbGUgbGlzdCBzaG91bGQgYmUg bWFpbnRhaW5lZCBpbiBhbHBoYWJldGljYWwgb3JkZXIsIHZpejoKPiAKPiAgICBpcnJlZ3VsYXIg ICAgID0gImVuLUdCLW9lZCIgLyAiaS1hbWkiIC8gImktYm5uIiAvICJpLWRlZmF1bHQiCj4gICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAvICJpLWVub2NoaWFuIiAvICJpLWhhayIgLyAiaS1rbGluZ29uIiAvICJp LWx1eCIKPiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIC8gImktbWluZ28iIC8gImktbmF2YWpvIiAvICJpLXB3 biIgLyAiaS10YW8iCj4gICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAvICJpLXRheSIgLyAiaS10c3UiIC8gIm5v LWJvayIgLyAibm8tbnluIgo+ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgLyAic2duLUJFLWZyIiAvICJzZ24t QkUtbmwiIC8gInNnbi1DSC1kZSIgLyAiemgtY21uIgo+ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgLyAiemgt Y21uLUhhbnMiIC8gInpoLWNtbi1IYW50IiAvICJ6aC1nYW4iCj4gICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAv ICJ6aC1taW4iIC8gInpoLW1pbi1uYW4iIC8gInpoLXd1dSIgLyAiemgteXVlIgo+IAo+IC0tCj4g RG91ZyBFd2VsbCAgKiAgRnVsbGVydG9uLCBDYWxpZm9ybmlhLCBVU0EgICogIFJGQyA0NjQ1ICAq ICBVVE4gIzE0Cj4gaHR0cDovL3d3dy5ld2VsbGljLm9yZwo+IGh0dHA6Ly93d3cxLmlldGYub3Jn L2h0bWwuY2hhcnRlcnMvbHRydS1jaGFydGVyLmh0bWwKPiBodHRwOi8vd3d3LmFsdmVzdHJhbmQu bm8vbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9pZXRmLWxhbmd1YWdlcyAgy4YgCj4gCj4gX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18KPiBMdHJ1IG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdAo+ IEx0cnVAaWV0Zi5vcmcKPiBodHRwOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vbHRy dQoKCi0tIApBZGRpc29uIFBoaWxsaXBzCkdsb2JhbGl6YXRpb24gQXJjaGl0ZWN0IC0tIFlhaG9v ISBJbmMuCkNoYWlyIC0tIFczQyBJbnRlcm5hdGlvbmFsaXphdGlvbiBDb3JlIFdHCgpJbnRlcm5h dGlvbmFsaXphdGlvbiBpcyBhbiBhcmNoaXRlY3R1cmUuCkl0IGlzIG5vdCBhIGZlYXR1cmUuCl9f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fCkx0cnUgbWFpbGlu ZyBsaXN0Ckx0cnVAaWV0Zi5vcmcKaHR0cDovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZv L2x0cnUK From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Thu Feb 21 11:25:47 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E227828C9F6; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 11:25:47 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.831 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.831 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.394, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nZPElzhav7vs; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 11:25:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E3C128C84E; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 11:25:47 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28A6C28C958 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 11:25:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5Ek+k6eytUZy for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 11:25:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from rsmtp1.corp.yahoo.com (rsmtp1.corp.yahoo.com [207.126.228.149]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EAC328C84E for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 11:25:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.72.72.149] (snvvpn1-10-72-72-c149.corp.yahoo.com [10.72.72.149]) by rsmtp1.corp.yahoo.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/y.rout) with ESMTP id m1LJPYVG054951 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 11:25:38 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; s=serpent; d=yahoo-inc.com; c=nofws; q=dns; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject: content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=sHkHTgRbhAAWmyTml+rsV0fpMrdz3ueCaZ8o7BuNqncLzkwzv8jbz0Ll7GPZdb2U Message-ID: <47BDD02C.7090101@yahoo-inc.com> Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 11:25:32 -0800 From: Addison Phillips User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "'LTRU Working Group'" Subject: [Ltru] editor's copy updated and posted to inter-locale X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org ... all edits mentioned on list are now available for your diffing pleasure. Addison -- Addison Phillips Globalization Architect -- Yahoo! Inc. Chair -- W3C Internationalization Core WG Internationalization is an architecture. It is not a feature. _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Thu Feb 21 11:30:28 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EE0128C803; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 11:30:28 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.248 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.248 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.430, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=0.619, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Jplg1GLn+3JS; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 11:30:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBB5628C216; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 11:30:27 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 547383A6CF3 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 11:30:27 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PVUfAGeNdUmT for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 11:30:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.69]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59FB13A6CEF for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 11:30:26 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=mindspring.com; b=HPQKqtlEomPo8PdQfSxSHY2sTo3KU7OGwJaGgQ1YalefxR+uUyDWZcXrgkw4Qu2y; 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production X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org SGkgLQoKQXMgY28tY2hhaXIuLi4KCkknbSBtYXJraW5nIHR3byB0aHJlYWRzICJyZXNvbHZlZCIg LQp0aGlzIG9uZSBhbmQgIls0NjQ1YmlzXSBob3cgdG8gcGFyc2UgemgtZ2FuPyIKClRoaXMgaXMg YSB0ZWNobmljYWwgY2hhbmdlLCB0aG91Z2ggSSBkb24ndCBzZWUgdGhpcyBvbmUgYXMKbmVjZXNz aXRhdGluZyBhIHNlY29uZCBXRyBsYXN0IGNhbGwuCgpSYW5keQoKLS0tLS0gT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVz c2FnZSAtLS0tLSAKRnJvbTogIkFkZGlzb24gUGhpbGxpcHMiIDxhZGRpc29uQHlhaG9vLWluYy5j b20+ClRvOiAiRG91ZyBFd2VsbCIgPGRld2VsbEByb2FkcnVubmVyLmNvbT4KQ2M6ICJMVFJVIFdv cmtpbmcgR3JvdXAiIDxsdHJ1QGlldGYub3JnPgpTZW50OiBUaHVyc2RheSwgRmVicnVhcnkgMjEs IDIwMDggMTE6MjIgQU0KU3ViamVjdDogUmU6IFtMdHJ1XSBQcm9wb3NhbCB0byBhZGQgbmV3IHRh 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aXphdGlvbiBpcyBhbiBhcmNoaXRlY3R1cmUuCj4gSXQgaXMgbm90IGEgZmVhdHVyZS4KPiBfX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXwo+IEx0cnUgbWFpbGlu ZyBsaXN0Cj4gTHRydUBpZXRmLm9yZwo+IGh0dHA6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0 aW5mby9sdHJ1Cj4KCgpfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fXwpMdHJ1IG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdApMdHJ1QGlldGYub3JnCmh0dHA6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcv bWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9sdHJ1Cg== From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Thu Feb 21 15:54:34 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 673073A6BA7; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 15:54:34 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.94 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.94 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.504, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, HTML_MESSAGE=1, MIME_HTML_MOSTLY=0.001, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EF3SF3tVOVw3; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 15:54:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F4513A6B5A; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 15:54:33 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E23E3A6B5A for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 15:54:31 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id m6esN304fWfY for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 15:54:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.microsoft.com (mail3.microsoft.com [131.107.115.214]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 271E53A6783 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 15:54:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from tk1-exhub-c104.redmond.corp.microsoft.com (157.56.116.117) by TK5-EXGWY-E803.partners.extranet.microsoft.com (10.251.56.169) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.1.240.5; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 15:54:25 -0800 Received: from NA-EXMSG-C117.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.62.44]) by tk1-exhub-c104.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.56.116.117]) with mapi; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 15:54:25 -0800 From: Peter Constable To: Mark Davis , Addison Phillips Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 15:54:19 -0800 Thread-Topic: [Ltru] RFC4646bis-11 Editorial Comments Only Sections 3.5, 3.6 Thread-Index: Ach0uElvk1TtKdeTTJCVex+3SY7NQAALMHJg Message-ID: References: <47BDB190.5050301@yahoo-inc.com> <47BDC2A2.3080900@yahoo-inc.com> <30b660a20802211033ocbe835av505f3250b0e9c92c@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <30b660a20802211033ocbe835av505f3250b0e9c92c@mail.gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: CE Whitehead , "ltru@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Ltru] RFC4646bis-11 Editorial Comments Only Sections 3.5, 3.6 X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0784889661==" Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org --===============0784889661== Content-Language: en-US Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_DDB6DE6E9D27DD478AE6D1BBBB83579562DE4CAC3ANAEXMSGC117re_" --_000_DDB6DE6E9D27DD478AE6D1BBBB83579562DE4CAC3ANAEXMSGC117re_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 TG9va3MgZ29vZCB0byBtZS4NCg0KUGV0ZXIuDQoNCg0KRnJvbTogbWFyay5lZHdhcmQuZGF2aXNA Z21haWwuY29tIFttYWlsdG86bWFyay5lZHdhcmQuZGF2aXNAZ21haWwuY29tXSBPbiBCZWhhbGYg T2YgTWFyayBEYXZpcw0KU2VudDogVGh1cnNkYXksIEZlYnJ1YXJ5IDIxLCAyMDA4IDEwOjM0IEFN 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_______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru --===============0784889661==-- From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Thu Feb 21 18:43:09 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B66E28C1B7; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 18:43:09 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.821 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.821 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.384, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id J2Do71ykM4SD; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 18:43:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FAB328C579; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 18:43:08 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 711D63A67D2 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 18:43:07 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 25p6tTEjTYKO for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 18:43:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from rsmtp1.corp.yahoo.com (rsmtp1.corp.yahoo.com [207.126.228.149]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3AB213A6864 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 18:42:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.72.73.143] (snvvpn1-10-72-73-c143.corp.yahoo.com [10.72.73.143]) by rsmtp1.corp.yahoo.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/y.rout) with ESMTP id m1M2geFW080728; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 18:42:40 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; s=serpent; d=yahoo-inc.com; c=nofws; q=dns; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject: references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=taBArdeP5iW7TVSdB8ruIYD0CuTd8cj8ZwRAK5JyPJBCCpcqtuLZHvotRydHk0HH Message-ID: <47BE36A0.4080209@yahoo-inc.com> Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 18:42:40 -0800 From: Addison Phillips User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Randy Presuhn References: <47B28753.5090406@yahoo-inc.com> <30b660a20802130859n7cb1c324v31dac9b1473e7aa3@mail.gmail.com> <009901c86e7e$8a1f4960$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> In-Reply-To: <009901c86e7e$8a1f4960$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> Cc: LTRU Working Group Subject: Re: [Ltru] folding boundaries X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Randy Presuhn wrote: > Hi - > >> From: "Mark Davis" >> To: "Addison Phillips" >> Cc: "LTRU Working Group" >> Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 8:59 AM >> Subject: Re: [Ltru] folding boundaries >> >> The first line contradicts the rest. And I don't think that we need to >> provide a precise specification of folding. My suggestion: >> >> Folding is done according to customary conventions for line-wrapping. This >> is typically on whitespace boundaries, but may break between other >> characters where a language does not use whitespace between words. For more >> information, see [UAX14]. > ... > > As a technical contributor, I would prefer something similar to this > suggested text. However, I do think the current text ("Folding is > always done on Unicode default grapheme boundaries (that is, never > in the middle of a multibyte UTF-8 sequence nor in the middle of a > combining character sequence).") makes an important point. I do not > think that we need to over-engineer this point, however, since *we* > are adding the bulk of these records, and the folks on ietf-languages@iana.org > can probably be trusted to "do the right thing." > I tend to agree. However, the current text really needs attention. Thus I added a modified version of Mark's text: -- Folding is done according to customary conventions for line-wrapping. This is typically on whitespace boundaries, but can occur between other characters when the value does not contain whitespace (such as a comment in a language that doesn't use spaces). For more information, see . -- I also added an informative reference to UAX#14. Addison -- Addison Phillips Globalization Architect -- Yahoo! Inc. Chair -- W3C Internationalization Core WG Internationalization is an architecture. It is not a feature. _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Thu Feb 21 18:46:09 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2A8F28C194; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 18:46:09 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.808 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.808 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.371, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id i59wPgQrB2L6; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 18:46:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA95E3A6839; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 18:46:08 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 960E83A6806 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 18:46:07 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id y49LRV9njF-L for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 18:46:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from rsmtp1.corp.yahoo.com (rsmtp1.corp.yahoo.com [207.126.228.149]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4E713A67D2 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 18:46:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.72.73.143] (snvvpn1-10-72-73-c143.corp.yahoo.com [10.72.73.143]) by rsmtp1.corp.yahoo.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/y.rout) with ESMTP id m1M2jpNb080859; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 18:45:51 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; s=serpent; d=yahoo-inc.com; c=nofws; q=dns; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject: references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=P2BDRKbtFrb/vh6I0q5ggYhbjXe5INC3Tho+YGJNdoq5BqSW7Hb+h5RCjmNNVDDG Message-ID: <47BE375E.60608@yahoo-inc.com> Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 18:45:50 -0800 From: Addison Phillips User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mark Davis References: <47B28753.5090406@yahoo-inc.com> <30b660a20802130859n7cb1c324v31dac9b1473e7aa3@mail.gmail.com> <009901c86e7e$8a1f4960$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> <30b660a20802131238t22b168f1p9aa0c9fd39d3fd21@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <30b660a20802131238t22b168f1p9aa0c9fd39d3fd21@mail.gmail.com> Cc: LTRU Working Group Subject: Re: [Ltru] folding boundaries X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Done, with a few minor edits, which includes fixing the not-quite normative "MUST never" to "MUST NOT" and inserting an *informative* reference to UAX14. Here is my modified version: -- Folding is done according to customary conventions for line-wrapping. This is typically on whitespace boundaries, but can occur between other characters when the value does not include spaces, such as when a language does not use whitespace between words. In any event, there MUST NOT be breaks inside a multibyte UTF-8 sequence nor in the middle of a combining character sequence. For more information, see . -- Addison Mark Davis wrote: > How about: > > Folding is done according to customary conventions for line-wrapping. > This is typically on whitespace boundaries, but may break between > other characters where a language does not use whitespace between > words. In any event, there MUST never be breaks inside a multibyte > UTF-8 sequence nor in the middle of a combining character sequence. > For more information, see [UAX14]. > > Mark > > On Feb 13, 2008 12:25 PM, Randy Presuhn wrote: >> Hi - >> >>> From: "Mark Davis" >>> To: "Addison Phillips" >>> Cc: "LTRU Working Group" >>> Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 8:59 AM >>> Subject: Re: [Ltru] folding boundaries >>> >>> The first line contradicts the rest. And I don't think that we need to >>> provide a precise specification of folding. My suggestion: >>> >>> Folding is done according to customary conventions for line-wrapping. This >>> is typically on whitespace boundaries, but may break between other >>> characters where a language does not use whitespace between words. For more >>> information, see [UAX14]. >> ... >> >> As a technical contributor, I would prefer something similar to this >> suggested text. However, I do think the current text ("Folding is >> always done on Unicode default grapheme boundaries (that is, never >> in the middle of a multibyte UTF-8 sequence nor in the middle of a >> combining character sequence).") makes an important point. I do not >> think that we need to over-engineer this point, however, since *we* >> are adding the bulk of these records, and the folks on ietf-languages@iana.org >> can probably be trusted to "do the right thing." >> >> Randy >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Ltru mailing list >> Ltru@ietf.org >> http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru >> > > > -- Addison Phillips Globalization Architect -- Yahoo! Inc. Chair -- W3C Internationalization Core WG Internationalization is an architecture. It is not a feature. _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Thu Feb 21 18:47:00 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E6FD28C56C; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 18:47:00 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.801 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.801 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.364, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ebfdaHpznGqg; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 18:46:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0206528C1B7; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 18:46:59 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A244428C1B7 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 18:46:57 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EaYkXwXoQ1VM for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 18:46:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from rsmtp1.corp.yahoo.com (rsmtp1.corp.yahoo.com [207.126.228.149]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8E1328C194 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 18:46:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.72.73.143] (snvvpn1-10-72-73-c143.corp.yahoo.com [10.72.73.143]) by rsmtp1.corp.yahoo.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/y.rout) with ESMTP id m1M2kowh080911; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 18:46:50 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; s=serpent; d=yahoo-inc.com; c=nofws; q=dns; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject: references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=U9iPPGdOskP00LdL5wKcWAkF9ax90c6ESd6dZ3azpAIv/XK3RkL4jJGT8Tpa8Wzt Message-ID: <47BE379A.1070708@yahoo-inc.com> Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 18:46:50 -0800 From: Addison Phillips User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Randy Presuhn References: <47B28753.5090406@yahoo-inc.com> <30b660a20802130859n7cb1c324v31dac9b1473e7aa3@mail.gmail.com> <009901c86e7e$8a1f4960$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> <47BE36A0.4080209@yahoo-inc.com> In-Reply-To: <47BE36A0.4080209@yahoo-inc.com> Cc: LTRU Working Group Subject: Re: [Ltru] folding boundaries X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Silly me... I composed this and then saw a few more messages in the thread and pushed send on BOTH accidentally. Ignore this one. Addison Addison Phillips wrote: > Randy Presuhn wrote: >> Hi - >> >>> From: "Mark Davis" >>> To: "Addison Phillips" >>> Cc: "LTRU Working Group" >>> Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 8:59 AM >>> Subject: Re: [Ltru] folding boundaries >>> >>> The first line contradicts the rest. And I don't think that we need to >>> provide a precise specification of folding. My suggestion: >>> >>> Folding is done according to customary conventions for line-wrapping. This >>> is typically on whitespace boundaries, but may break between other >>> characters where a language does not use whitespace between words. For more >>> information, see [UAX14]. >> ... >> >> As a technical contributor, I would prefer something similar to this >> suggested text. However, I do think the current text ("Folding is >> always done on Unicode default grapheme boundaries (that is, never >> in the middle of a multibyte UTF-8 sequence nor in the middle of a >> combining character sequence).") makes an important point. I do not >> think that we need to over-engineer this point, however, since *we* >> are adding the bulk of these records, and the folks on ietf-languages@iana.org >> can probably be trusted to "do the right thing." >> > > I tend to agree. However, the current text really needs attention. Thus > I added a modified version of Mark's text: > > -- > Folding is done according to customary conventions for line-wrapping. > This is typically on whitespace boundaries, but can occur between other > characters when the value does not contain whitespace (such as a comment > in a language that doesn't use spaces). For more information, see target="UAX14">. > -- > > I also added an informative reference to UAX#14. > > Addison > -- Addison Phillips Globalization Architect -- Yahoo! Inc. Chair -- W3C Internationalization Core WG Internationalization is an architecture. It is not a feature. _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Thu Feb 21 18:57:54 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFA3428C4E7; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 18:57:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.498 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.498 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.661, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, J_CHICKENPOX_23=0.6, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oPkGsu7pC3bv; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 18:57:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 244A33A6BC4; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 18:57:54 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 745343A6943 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 18:57:52 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tefCeE3UR02O for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 18:57:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from rsmtp1.corp.yahoo.com (rsmtp1.corp.yahoo.com [207.126.228.149]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 546533A6BFA for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 18:57:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.72.73.143] (snvvpn1-10-72-73-c143.corp.yahoo.com [10.72.73.143]) by rsmtp1.corp.yahoo.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/y.rout) with ESMTP id m1M2uibk081312; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 18:56:44 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; s=serpent; d=yahoo-inc.com; c=nofws; q=dns; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject: references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=b8qc1xWY5vgIEbg/yie9h3W3Rt03jn+tV75/JqOMd2jniR2uh7B7zD7Qz1ueRjzd Message-ID: <47BE39EB.6030401@yahoo-inc.com> Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 18:56:43 -0800 From: Addison Phillips User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Martin Duerst References: <20080109014618.0C46D25971E@eikenes.alvestrand.no> <000501c85287$97e9e590$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> <20080109063453.GB9253@mercury.ccil.org> <001001c852cf$4f219d10$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> <30b660a20801091029p3fe7db28tfa787f0c4f399bc8@mail.gmail.com> <6.0.0.20.2.20080110163909.0aabc5f0@localhost> In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.20.2.20080110163909.0aabc5f0@localhost> Cc: LTRU Working Group Subject: Re: [Ltru] Fwd: Addition request: alsatian X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org TW9yZSBjYXRjaGluZyB1cC4gVGhpcyB3YXMgaW5zZXJ0ZWQgYXQgdGhlIGVuZCBvZiAiTWVhbmlu ZyIgd2l0aCBlZGl0czoKCjx0PlNpbWlsYXJseSwgbm90IGFsbCBzdWJ0YWdzIHNwZWNpZnkgYW4g YWN0dWFsIGRpc3RpbmN0aW9uIGluIGxhbmd1YWdlLiAKRm9yIGV4YW1wbGUsIHRoZSB0YWdzICJl bi1VUyIgYW5kICJlbi1DQSIgbWVhbiwgcm91Z2hseSwgRW5nbGlzaCB3aXRoIApmZWF0dXJlcwpn ZW5lcmFsbHkgdGhvdWdodCB0byBiZSBjaGFyYWN0ZXJpc3RpYyBvZiB0aGUgVW5pdGVkIFN0YXRl cyBhbmQgQ2FuYWRhLApyZXNwZWN0aXZlbHkuICBUaGV5IGRvIG5vdCBpbXBseSB0aGF0IGEgc2ln bmlmaWNhbnQgZGlhbGVjdGljYWwgYm91bmRhcnkKZXhpc3RzIGJldHdlZW4gYW55IGFyYml0cmFy aWx5IHNlbGVjdGVkIHBvaW50IGluIHRoZSBVbml0ZWQgU3RhdGVzIGFuZCBhbnkKYXJiaXRyYXJp bHkgc2VsZWN0ZWQgcG9pbnQgaW4gQ2FuYWRhLiBOZWl0aGVyIGRvZXMgYSBwYXJ0aWN1bGFyIHJl Z2lvbiAKc3VidGFnIGltcGx5IHRoYXQgbGluZ3Vpc3RpYyBkaXN0aW5jdGlvbnMgZG8gbm90IGV4 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cm5hdGlvbmFsaXphdGlvbiBpcyBhbiBhcmNoaXRlY3R1cmUuCkl0IGlzIG5vdCBhIGZlYXR1cmUu Cl9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fCkx0cnUgbWFp bGluZyBsaXN0Ckx0cnVAaWV0Zi5vcmcKaHR0cDovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3Rp bmZvL2x0cnUK From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Thu Feb 21 19:00:30 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 666E43A6BF2; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 19:00:30 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.777 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.777 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.340, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ukb2PwHChGEw; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 19:00:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B6083A6C16; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 19:00:29 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B9233A6BF2 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 19:00:28 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id q-ezl9SRdzhZ for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 19:00:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from rsmtp1.corp.yahoo.com (rsmtp1.corp.yahoo.com [207.126.228.149]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37F363A6BBA for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 19:00:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.72.73.143] (snvvpn1-10-72-73-c143.corp.yahoo.com [10.72.73.143]) by rsmtp1.corp.yahoo.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/y.rout) with ESMTP id m1M304rB081475; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 19:00:04 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; s=serpent; d=yahoo-inc.com; c=nofws; q=dns; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject: references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=R/t8Soxh2aQ2CPmyiepMv1X1+y4ZBX3bw74I0XW+2PpgjI7UM9oDELWB2Za20saI Message-ID: <47BE3AB4.2010906@yahoo-inc.com> Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 19:00:04 -0800 From: Addison Phillips User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: debbie@ictmarketing.co.uk References: <00f501c87176$7fec95b0$0a00a8c0@CPQ86763045110><008501c871d6$7ea769e0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> <30b660a20802180734m55e7d7acg7c89f8ea30455d1b@mail.gmail.com> <05e201c8746f$21474590$0a00a8c0@CPQ86763045110> In-Reply-To: <05e201c8746f$21474590$0a00a8c0@CPQ86763045110> Cc: ltru@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Ltru] Language Subtag Reviewer X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org As technical contributor: I oppose changing the draft. As editor: since there haven't been many contributions on this thread yet, I haven't made an edit here. Addison Debbie Garside wrote: > In other words the text is deliberate in requiring the IESG to solicit > nominees upon publication of this document. > > I think this is a waste of time for the people involved. I doubt > whether anyone but Michael would get the job as he has served for so > long and IMHO performs the duties of LSR perfectly well. > > Debbie > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* ltru-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ltru-bounces@ietf.org] *On > Behalf Of *Mark Davis > *Sent:* 18 February 2008 15:35 > *To:* Randy Presuhn > *Cc:* ltru@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: [Ltru] Language Subtag Reviewer > > -1 > > That language was deliberate, after an extended email debate. It > should be retained. > > Mark > > On Feb 17, 2008 6:32 PM, Randy Presuhn > wrote: > > Hi - > > > From: "Debbie Garside" > > > To: > > > Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 7:05 AM > > Subject: [Ltru] Language Subtag Reviewer > ... > > Can you clarify the following: > > > > --- > > The Language Subtag Reviewer is appointed by the IESG for an > > indefinite term, subject to removal or replacement at the > IESG's > > discretion. The IESG will solicit nominees for the > position (upon > > adoption of this document or upon a vacancy) and then solicit > > feedback on the nominees' qualifications. Qualified > candidates > > should be familiar with BCP 47 and its requirements; be > willing to > > fairly, responsively, and judiciously administer the > registration > > process; and be suitably informed about the issues of language > > identification so that they can draw upon and assess the > claim and > > contributions of language experts and subtag requesters. > > > > --- > > > > Does this mean that the IESG are required to solicit nominees > for the > > position of Language Subtag Reviewer upon the adoption of > this document? Or > > does it mean just when a vacancy arises? > ... > > As a technical contributor: > replace "(upon adoption of this document or upon a vacancy)" > with "upon a vacancy". > > Randy > > _______________________________________________ > Ltru mailing list > Ltru@ietf.org > http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru > > > > > -- > Mark > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Ltru mailing list > Ltru@ietf.org > http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru -- Addison Phillips Globalization Architect -- Yahoo! Inc. Chair -- W3C Internationalization Core WG Internationalization is an architecture. It is not a feature. _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Thu Feb 21 19:08:22 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57D173A6C17; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 19:08:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.769 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.769 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.332, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5azOn1NV312O; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 19:08:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8194C3A6BDA; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 19:08:21 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C56973A6B9D for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 19:08:18 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yWo2b0rz7aG7 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 19:08:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from rsmtp1.corp.yahoo.com (rsmtp1.corp.yahoo.com [207.126.228.149]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F4EF28C220 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 19:07:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.72.73.143] (snvvpn1-10-72-73-c143.corp.yahoo.com [10.72.73.143]) by rsmtp1.corp.yahoo.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/y.rout) with ESMTP id m1M37SO2081824; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 19:07:28 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; s=serpent; d=yahoo-inc.com; c=nofws; q=dns; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject: references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=wbFwqte+wm+TV6mpxiul04glv+Nz/aNWjNwuZLfZWQmQNlrY5hfYqYCxWL5K8QKg Message-ID: <47BE3C70.5050405@yahoo-inc.com> Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 19:07:28 -0800 From: Addison Phillips User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mark Davis References: <30b660a20802131322m6236c805ma29162351fada2bc@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <30b660a20802131322m6236c805ma29162351fada2bc@mail.gmail.com> Cc: "ltru@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Ltru] Editorial: wording in section 4.2 X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Mark Davis wrote: > +1 > > On Feb 13, 2008 1:06 PM, Peter Constable > wrote: > > The second paragraph of section 4.2 begins as follows: > > "Validity of a tag is not everything." > > I don't like the style of that wording. Here's a suggested change: > > "Validity of a tag is not the only factor determining its > usefulness." > DONE. > Paragraph 3 begins as follows: > > "The relationship between the tag and the information it > identifies is defined by the context in which the tag > appears." > > This could be read as saying that the meaning of a tag can vary > according to usage context. That certainly is not the case. I think > the following better reflects what I think was intended: > > "The meaning of a given tag is not dependent on the > context in which it appears. The relationship between the > meaning of a tag and information objects to which the tag > is applied, however, can vary." > DONE with edits. The meaning of a given tag doesn't depend on the context in which it appears. The relationship between a tag's meaning and the information objects to which that tag is applied, however, can very. Addison -- Addison Phillips Globalization Architect -- Yahoo! Inc. Chair -- W3C Internationalization Core WG Internationalization is an architecture. It is not a feature. _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Thu Feb 21 19:12:54 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F23928C24D; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 19:12:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.862 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.862 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.323, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, HTML_MESSAGE=1, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WfpyzagCoWJY; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 19:12:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 348793A6856; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 19:12:53 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EAA128C159 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 19:12:50 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IsNbnSq55TLU for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 19:12:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from el-out-1112.google.com (el-out-1112.google.com [209.85.162.177]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BC8A3A6856 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 19:11:51 -0800 (PST) Received: by el-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id j27so444463elf.25 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 19:11:47 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references:x-google-sender-auth; bh=6DhWLZ5OY8i2tb3PEpmLPJ5qs7kYgjM5Ve/Vx3MKByI=; b=YJedUsVO8wxjK/YH4wbiB97PKM1wMM7tJj7dVvMNeaFojC2YAOROIPl1uNKGr+pCod1sDcINXIySAl7tDsRMuv0cHjzpDfpNOQGPbHSQFVnaSPKC1fqaB+/NAXQMHrCoqTNjCgWNJBz0V2OosUn2DrW4m9blzEW8KAx54gD4D1U= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references:x-google-sender-auth; b=tGPEQ9bRs6ghNofVnME+h7chm81vedez2Dpn9H4kv3LYWVuAGlDYSCvtcUv/rYTvy0UvaQh9bbtnGrZWnRKlJkPu7w6cNwKWpJQ7aoBSktn2qvQPhf6WM6M4A9RGIH+j96E3knrSdYqMGt4kup5uD75RSoNJEGbhW/FzZG7GKEE= Received: by 10.142.179.12 with SMTP id b12mr8334333wff.88.1203649906361; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 19:11:46 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.143.174.8 with HTTP; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 19:11:46 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <30b660a20802211911s14836ee6tb6b82183b363fdb7@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 19:11:46 -0800 From: "Mark Davis" To: "Addison Phillips" In-Reply-To: <47BE3AB4.2010906@yahoo-inc.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <00f501c87176$7fec95b0$0a00a8c0@CPQ86763045110> <008501c871d6$7ea769e0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> <30b660a20802180734m55e7d7acg7c89f8ea30455d1b@mail.gmail.com> <05e201c8746f$21474590$0a00a8c0@CPQ86763045110> <47BE3AB4.2010906@yahoo-inc.com> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 9fc6a0fd0c5b1801 Cc: ltru@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Ltru] Language Subtag Reviewer X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0439856524==" Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org --===============0439856524== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_9342_32834933.1203649906372" ------=_Part_9342_32834933.1203649906372 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I agree with Addison, I oppose changing the draft. This language is the result of a compromise reached some time ago, and should not be changed -- unless we want to rehash a long argument about it. Mark On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 7:00 PM, Addison Phillips wrote: > As technical contributor: I oppose changing the draft. > > As editor: since there haven't been many contributions on this thread > yet, I haven't made an edit here. > > Addison > > Debbie Garside wrote: > > In other words the text is deliberate in requiring the IESG to solicit > > nominees upon publication of this document. > > > > I think this is a waste of time for the people involved. I doubt > > whether anyone but Michael would get the job as he has served for so > > long and IMHO performs the duties of LSR perfectly well. > > > > Debbie > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:* ltru-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ltru-bounces@ietf.org] *On > > Behalf Of *Mark Davis > > *Sent:* 18 February 2008 15:35 > > *To:* Randy Presuhn > > *Cc:* ltru@ietf.org > > *Subject:* Re: [Ltru] Language Subtag Reviewer > > > > -1 > > > > That language was deliberate, after an extended email debate. It > > should be retained. > > > > Mark > > > > On Feb 17, 2008 6:32 PM, Randy Presuhn > > wrote: > > > > Hi - > > > > > From: "Debbie Garside" > > > > > To: > > > > Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 7:05 AM > > > Subject: [Ltru] Language Subtag Reviewer > > ... > > > Can you clarify the following: > > > > > > --- > > > The Language Subtag Reviewer is appointed by the IESG for > an > > > indefinite term, subject to removal or replacement at the > > IESG's > > > discretion. The IESG will solicit nominees for the > > position (upon > > > adoption of this document or upon a vacancy) and then > solicit > > > feedback on the nominees' qualifications. Qualified > > candidates > > > should be familiar with BCP 47 and its requirements; be > > willing to > > > fairly, responsively, and judiciously administer the > > registration > > > process; and be suitably informed about the issues of > language > > > identification so that they can draw upon and assess the > > claim and > > > contributions of language experts and subtag requesters. > > > > > > --- > > > > > > Does this mean that the IESG are required to solicit nominees > > for the > > > position of Language Subtag Reviewer upon the adoption of > > this document? Or > > > does it mean just when a vacancy arises? > > ... > > > > As a technical contributor: > > replace "(upon adoption of this document or upon a vacancy)" > > with "upon a vacancy". > > > > Randy > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ltru mailing list > > Ltru@ietf.org > > http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Mark > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ltru mailing list > > Ltru@ietf.org > > http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru > > > -- > Addison Phillips > Globalization Architect -- Yahoo! Inc. > Chair -- W3C Internationalization Core WG > > Internationalization is an architecture. > It is not a feature. > -- Mark ------=_Part_9342_32834933.1203649906372 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I agree with Addison, I oppose changing the draft.

This language is the result of a compromise reached some time ago, and should not be changed -- unless we want to rehash a long argument about it.

Mark

On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 7:00 PM, Addison Phillips <addison@yahoo-inc.com> wrote:
As technical contributor: I oppose changing the draft.

As editor: since there haven't been many contributions on this thread
yet, I haven't made an edit here.

Addison

Debbie Garside wrote:
> In other words the text is deliberate in requiring the IESG to solicit
> nominees upon publication of this document.
>
> I think this is a waste of time for the people involved.  I doubt
> whether anyone but Michael would get the job as he has served for so
> long and IMHO performs the duties of LSR perfectly well.
>
> Debbie
>
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>     *From:* ltru-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ltru-bounces@ietf.org] *On
>     Behalf Of *Mark Davis
>     *Sent:* 18 February 2008 15:35
>     *To:* Randy Presuhn
>     *Cc:* ltru@ietf.org
>     *Subject:* Re: [Ltru] Language Subtag Reviewer
>
>     -1
>
>     That language was deliberate, after an extended email debate. It
>     should be retained.
>
>     Mark
>
>     On Feb 17, 2008 6:32 PM, Randy Presuhn <randy_presuhn@mindspring.com
>     <mailto:randy_presuhn@mindspring.com>> wrote:
>
>         Hi -
>
>          > From: "Debbie Garside" <debbie@ictmarketing.co.uk
>         <mailto:debbie@ictmarketing.co.uk>>
>          > To: <ltru@ietf.org <mailto:ltru@ietf.org>>
>          > Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 7:05 AM
>          > Subject: [Ltru] Language Subtag Reviewer
>         ...
>          > Can you clarify the following:
>          >
>          > ---
>          >    The Language Subtag Reviewer is appointed by the IESG for an
>          >    indefinite term, subject to removal or replacement at the
>         IESG's
>          >    discretion.  The IESG will solicit nominees for the
>         position (upon
>          >    adoption of this document or upon a vacancy) and then solicit
>          >    feedback on the nominees' qualifications.  Qualified
>         candidates
>          >    should be familiar with BCP 47 and its requirements; be
>         willing to
>          >    fairly, responsively, and judiciously administer the
>         registration
>          >    process; and be suitably informed about the issues of language
>          >    identification so that they can draw upon and assess the
>         claim and
>          >    contributions of language experts and subtag requesters.
>          >
>          > ---
>          >
>          > Does this mean that the IESG are required to solicit nominees
>         for the
>          > position of Language Subtag Reviewer upon the adoption of
>         this document?  Or
>          > does it mean just when a vacancy arises?
>         ...
>
>         As a technical contributor:
>         replace "(upon adoption of this document or upon a vacancy)"
>         with "upon a vacancy".
>
>         Randy
>
>         _______________________________________________
>         Ltru mailing list
>         Ltru@ietf.org <mailto:Ltru@ietf.org>
>         http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru
>
>
>
>
>     --
>     Mark
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ltru mailing list
> Ltru@ietf.org
> http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru


--
Addison Phillips
Globalization Architect -- Yahoo! Inc.
Chair -- W3C Internationalization Core WG

Internationalization is an architecture.
It is not a feature.



--
Mark
------=_Part_9342_32834933.1203649906372-- --===============0439856524== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru --===============0439856524==-- From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Thu Feb 21 19:15:32 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6ABAC28C2B0; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 19:15:32 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.764 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.764 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.327, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WDElbKh85Pb7; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 19:15:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E75928C191; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 19:15:31 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F80B28C159 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 19:15:30 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VVsvYPV127KR for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 19:15:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from rsmtp2.corp.yahoo.com (rsmtp2.corp.yahoo.com [207.126.228.150]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C20BC28C191 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 19:15:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.72.73.143] (snvvpn1-10-72-73-c143.corp.yahoo.com [10.72.73.143]) by rsmtp2.corp.yahoo.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/y.rout) with ESMTP id m1M3FAup051443; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 19:15:10 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; s=serpent; d=yahoo-inc.com; c=nofws; q=dns; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject: references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=g5k4CWeIcJ1BgLSmUDWzc8oypUOpHMU4oxRsjD+Yx2d8iIdehbiE/Q/0+CWAuDX5 Message-ID: <47BE3E3D.1010004@yahoo-inc.com> Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 19:15:09 -0800 From: Addison Phillips User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mark Davis References: <30b660a20802151222o763fea90p843bb48c56169c7c@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <30b660a20802151222o763fea90p843bb48c56169c7c@mail.gmail.com> Cc: CE Whitehead , ltru@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Ltru] Editorial Comments Only--RFC4646bis-11 X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Mark Davis wrote: > General comment: at this point, if you want a change you should indicate > precisely the text that is to be replaced and by precisely what text. So > we really can't take any action on most of these. Other comments below. > Editor hat on: My co-editor is correct. Some comments follow as appropriate. > > p.3, Section 1, PAR 1: > "Human beings on our planet have, past and present, used a number > of languages." > > COMMENT: Seems you can just skip this sentence and start w. next > sentence. > > > As I recall, that sentence has made its way through different versions. > I think the reason for this is just to focus on human languages (rather > than programming languages). Perhaps we could change: > > Human beings on our planet have, past and present, used a number of > > languages. There are many reasons why one would want to identify the > language used when presenting or requesting information. > > => > > Human languages may need to be clearly identified when presenting or requesting information. > > > [the text then goes on to list reasons.] As technical contributor: The sentence being objected to appears in RFC 1766. As a sense of history, I think we ought to preserve at least ONE of Harald's original sentences. Certainly this innocuous one would be a good choice. Note: I agree with all of Mark's other comments. Addison -- Addison Phillips Globalization Architect -- Yahoo! Inc. Chair -- W3C Internationalization Core WG Internationalization is an architecture. It is not a feature. _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Thu Feb 21 19:46:33 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 707243A6BE8; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 19:46:33 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.773 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.773 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.664, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nyRSXtjprFlv; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 19:46:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6ED183A6C26; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 19:46:32 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4519D3A6BE8 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 19:46:31 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MQDmHy7jqeDg for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 19:46:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from rsmtp1.corp.yahoo.com (rsmtp1.corp.yahoo.com [207.126.228.149]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B3173A6943 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 19:46:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.72.73.143] (snvvpn1-10-72-73-c143.corp.yahoo.com [10.72.73.143]) by rsmtp1.corp.yahoo.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/y.rout) with ESMTP id m1M3kLuU083397; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 19:46:21 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; s=serpent; d=yahoo-inc.com; c=nofws; q=dns; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject: references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=PQVYtJrkGi8e6KaVdpwkGBICnS0Fa4k+6sjYC8vlXUL98CyniWTFkVQelkf8GCqX Message-ID: <47BE458D.1000505@yahoo-inc.com> Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 19:46:21 -0800 From: Addison Phillips User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: CE Whitehead References: <30b660a20802151222o763fea90p843bb48c56169c7c@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Cc: ltru@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Ltru] Editorial Comments Only--RFC4646bis-11 X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Comments as technical contributor (unless otherwise noted) follow. CE Whitehead wrote: > > * * * > p.3, Section 1, PAR 5 > > > If you are requesting a change, provide exactly the > > > change in the text that you propose. > > > "Tags can also be used to indicate additional language > attributes of content. For example, indicating specific > information about the dialect, writing system, or orthography > used in a document or resource may enable the user to obtain > information in a form that they can understand, or it can be > important in processing or rendering the given content into an > appropriate form or style." > > ==> "For example, indicating specific information about > the dialect, writing system, or orthography used in a document > or resource may enable the user to obtain information in a form > that they can understand, or it, together with the declaration > of document encoding type, can be important in processing or > rendering the given content into an appropriate form or style." I think this paragraph would be redundant with other information in the introduction and elsewhere. > > > COMMENT/DISCUSSION: It's nice to insert a short note here that > it is not just the language declaration that is used for this; I > think that makes the fifth paragraph of the first section "More > Useful." > > (ALSO, ONE MORE TRIVIAL COMMENT ON THIS SECTION: "form or > style?" "processing or rendering??" > Would not it be best to choose between processing or rendering? Not really. They are different things. > I think it's first processed then rendered; that is the text is > processed; then part of the processing involves rendering it for > the user; I'd say > instead of > "processing or rendering" > => "rendering" > only but it's no big deal!) Rendering isn't always done on text. I suppose processing could be considered inclusive of the rendering process, but the distinction here is between a text process (such as spell-checking a text, say) and rendering (causing the text to be displayed). > > > * * * > p.10, Section 2.2.2: > > "2.2.2. Extended Language Subtags > > "Extended language subtags are permanently reserved. They > MUST NOT be registered or used to form language tags (except in > grandfathered tags). They were originally created to allow for > certain kinds of compatibility mappings which ultimately were > not used." > > > INSERT => > "The grandfathered tags formed with extended language subtags, > for example, zh-gan, > > > will be deprecated (most often with a preferred value). This is actually wrong. The grandfathered tags---all of them---are RFC 3066 era tags. They don't actually have extlangs (although some were registered with extlangs in mind, others clearly were not). > > " > > COMMENT: Inserting this information makes it clear what is > happening to the grandfathered tags! Otherwise I was left > wondering. Nothing, actually, is happening to them that didn't already happen in RFC 4646. It *might* have happened that some became redundant, but this didn't turn out to be the case. It might be useful, though, to indicate that grandfathered tags that match the extlang production don't change validity. > > > * * * > > > > p. 11, Section 2.2.4, item 3: > > "The following rules define which codes are entered > into the registry as valid subtags:" > > INSERT => > > > > "The following rules define which codes are entered > into the registry as valid regional subtags:" > > > > > (COMMENT: Sorry, it's just not clear that you mean "regional" > here; somehow without the word 'regional' spelled out it seems > like you've jumped back to the general talk about language tags) Section 2.2.4 is called "Region Subtag" and your proposed change occurs in a block headed by the phrase "The following rules apply to the region subtags:" > > > > * * * > > p. 11, Section 2.2.4, Item 3.C: > > "UN numeric codes for countries or areas which are assigned > ISO 3166 alpha2 codes already present in the > registry, MUST > be defined according to the rules in Section 3.4 and > MUST be > used to form language tags that represent the country or > region for which they are defined. This happens when ISO > 3166 reassigns a code formerly used for one country to > another." > > > > CHANGE LAST SENTENCE, > > > "This happens when ISO 3166 reassigns a code formerly used for > one country to another." > > => "The numeric subtags for countries are used instead of the > subtags for countries formed with letters only when ISO 3166 > reassigns a letter code formerly used for one country to another > country." I was on my way to inserting an edit based on your suggestion, but think that maybe your request is already represented by the full paragraph: UN numeric codes for countries or areas which are assigned ISO 3166 alpha2 codes already present in the registry, MUST be defined according to the rules in and MUST be used to form language tags that represent the country or region for which they are defined. This happens when ISO 3166 reassigns a code formerly used for one country to another. > > > > > > COMMENT: That this was done to avoid collisions was not clear > from the draft, although it's been amply addressed in the ltru > discussion; however it needs to be clarifiied in the draft. I edited the last sentence to try to clarify this thusly: -- This happens when ISO 3166 reassigns a code already included in the registry and formerly used for one country to another. -- Regards, Addison -- Addison Phillips Globalization Architect -- Yahoo! Inc. Chair -- W3C Internationalization Core WG Internationalization is an architecture. It is not a feature. _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Thu Feb 21 19:59:33 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E064E28C311; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 19:59:33 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.796 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.796 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.359, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fZ-UF3y7bn2D; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 19:59:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A8483A695B; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 19:59:33 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 173A93A682E for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 19:59:31 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XBmpJBje16LJ for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 19:59:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from rsmtp1.corp.yahoo.com (rsmtp1.corp.yahoo.com [207.126.228.149]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E45228C2A3 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 19:59:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.72.73.143] (snvvpn1-10-72-73-c143.corp.yahoo.com [10.72.73.143]) by rsmtp1.corp.yahoo.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/y.rout) with ESMTP id m1M3xCDS083942; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 19:59:12 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; s=serpent; d=yahoo-inc.com; c=nofws; q=dns; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject: references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=aHF97cGxH6bjG5KeuO4r8hl9rpUIUkjKl3tp7imHwEFpo+2/zp4h2PK/7cRX2sAU Message-ID: <47BE4890.9020808@yahoo-inc.com> Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 19:59:12 -0800 From: Addison Phillips User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Randy Presuhn References: <30b660a20802131101h3f58fa4bh6730cc706ad2d9d9@mail.gmail.com> <015e01c86e86$1327af20$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> <30b660a20802131328l6cd66779y59f1a4dd9b7f089f@mail.gmail.com> <019501c86e88$ee6d3080$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> In-Reply-To: <019501c86e88$ee6d3080$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> Cc: LTRU Working Group Subject: Re: [Ltru] Proposed edit MD11 (davis) X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org A technical contributor: I dimly recall that we allowed for a SHOULD for some actual purpose, although the following example of "en-BU" -> "en-MM" indicates that we intended MUST. As editor: I made this change. I also changed the example involving alphabetization of extensions, since it had the extension subtags in uppercase (which is not recommended). Addison Randy Presuhn wrote: > Hi - > > As co-chair - > > For example: > > 2. Subtags of type 'Region' that have a Preferred-Value mapping in > the IANA registry (see Section 3.1) SHOULD be replaced with their > mapped value. Note: In rare cases, the mapped value will also > have a Preferred-Value. > > 2. Subtags of type 'Region' that have a Preferred-Value mapping in > the IANA registry (see Section 3.1) are recursively replaced with their > mapped value. Note: In rare cases, the mapped value will also > have a Preferred-Value. > > These two descriptions of step 2 have potentially different results - > in the first version, the replacement is optional, in the second > version it is unconditional. This is a technical change. > > As a technical contributor: > > I agree with making this change. It's probably what we meant > all along. :-) > > Randy > > _______________________________________________ > Ltru mailing list > Ltru@ietf.org > http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru -- Addison Phillips Globalization Architect -- Yahoo! Inc. Chair -- W3C Internationalization Core WG Internationalization is an architecture. It is not a feature. _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Thu Feb 21 20:16:35 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6264E28C5DC; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 20:16:35 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.794 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.794 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.357, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 01xiWD43gZiw; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 20:16:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D7B13A6C26; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 20:16:34 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9346D3A6AE9 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 20:16:32 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YkKQQE7KvnQF for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 20:16:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from rsmtp1.corp.yahoo.com (rsmtp1.corp.yahoo.com [207.126.228.149]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71B8428C159 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 20:16:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.72.73.143] (snvvpn1-10-72-73-c143.corp.yahoo.com [10.72.73.143]) by rsmtp1.corp.yahoo.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/y.rout) with ESMTP id m1M4GHMJ084686; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 20:16:17 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; s=serpent; d=yahoo-inc.com; c=nofws; q=dns; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject: references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=fo8EtbkrAUJhOlkbxb2Saaw6Tyww6VZF8flZZB4QIGhv+3iZich1uOBeJ9vgN8pD Message-ID: <47BE4C90.9060707@yahoo-inc.com> Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 20:16:16 -0800 From: Addison Phillips User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Doug Ewell References: <008901c87062$aa447c20$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> In-Reply-To: <008901c87062$aa447c20$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> Cc: LTRU Working Group Subject: Re: [Ltru] Proposed edit MD12 (davis) X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org SSBoYXZlIGZvbGxvd2VkIHRoaXMgdGhyZWFkIGRvd24gdG8gaGVyZSwgd2hpY2ggaXMgYXBwYXJl bnRseSB0aGUgCmN1cnJlbnQgZW5kLiBXaXRoIHJlZ2FyZCB0byBpbmNsdXNpb24gb2YgdGhlIENv bW1lbnQsIEkgbm90ZSB0aGF0IGl0IAp3b3VsZCBub3QganVzdCBiZSBhIG9uZS10aW1lIGV2ZW50 LCBidXQgYWxzbyBwb3RlbnRpYWxseSByZXF1aXJlIAptYWludGVuYW5jZSwgd2hpY2ggaXMgYSBw YWluIGFuZCBtaWdodCBiZSBvdmVybG9va2VkLgoKSSAqYWxzbyogbm90ZSBhIGNvdXBsZSByZWFz b25zIHdoeSB3ZSBkaWRuJ3QgYWxsb3cgYSBjaGFuZ2UgdG8gdGhlIApQcmVmZXJyZWQtVmFsdWUg YnV0IGluc3RlYWQgbm90ZWQgbWFueSB0aW1lcyBpbiBSRkMgNDY0NiB0aGF0IHlvdSBoYXZlIAp0 byBmb2xsb3cgdGhlIGNoYWluLiBGaXJzdCwgcmVnaW9uIGNvZGVzIGluIHBhcnRpY3VsYXIgY2hh bmdlIHdpdGggc29tZSAKcmVndWxhcml0eS4gVGhlIExTUiB3b3VsZCBoYXZlIHRvIHJlY29nbml6 ZSB0aGF0IG9uZSBjaGFuZ2UgYWZmZWN0ZWQgCnNldmVyYWwgc3VidGFncyBhbmQgdXBkYXRlIGVh Y2ggb25lLiBTZWNvbmQsIHRoZSB0cmFuc2l0aXZlIG5hdHVyZSAKYWxsb3dzIG9uZSB0byByZWNv bnN0cnVjdCBjYW5vbmljYWxpdHkgb2YgYSBsYW5ndWFnZSB0YWcgYXMgYXQgYSAKcGFydGljdWxh ciBkYXRlLCBhIGZlYXR1cmUgdGhhdCBpcyBub3QgcG9zc2libGUgaWYgeW91IHJlbW92ZSB0aGUg Y2hhaW4uCgpIb3dldmVyLCBJIGFncmVlIHdpdGggTWFyaydzIEJ1cm1hIGNhc2UuIFdlIHNob3Vs ZCwgaW4gbXkgb3BpbmlvbiwgcmVsYXggCnRoZSBzdGFiaWxpdHkgb2YgUHJlZmVycmVkLVZhbHVl IHRvIGFsbG93IHJlbW92YWwgb3IgbW9kaWZpY2F0aW9uLiBUaGlzIAp3b3VsZCBhbGxvdyBtb2Rp ZmljYXRpb25zIHRvIHJlbW92ZSB0cmFuc2l0aXZlIGxpbmtzIChraWxsaW5nIHRoZSBzZWNvbmQg CmNhc2UgYWJvdmUpLiBJdCB3b3VsZCBhbHNvIHJlcXVpcmUgc29tZSBtb3JlIG1vZGlmaWNhdGlv bnMgdG8gc3RhYmlsaXR5IApydWxlcyBhbmQgbWFpbnRlbmFuY2UgcmVxdWlyZW1lbnRzLgoKQWRk aXNvbgoKRG91ZyBFd2VsbCB3cm90ZToKPiBKb2huIENvd2FuIDxjb3dhbiBhdCBjY2lsIGRvdCBv cmc+IHdyb3RlOgo+IAo+Pj4gSXQgc291bmRzIGxpa2UgaXQncyB0aW1lIHRvIHN0YXJ0IGEgZGlm ZmVyZW50IHRocmVhZC4gIFRoZSBjaGFuZ2UgCj4+PiBwcm9wb3NlZCBpbiAqdGhpcyogdGhyZWFk IHdhcyB0byByZWNvbW1lbmQgYWRkaW5nIGEgY29tbWVudCByZWdhcmRpbmcgCj4+PiB0aGUgY2Fu b25pY2FsIGZvcm0gdW5kZXIgY2VydGFpbiBjaXJjdW1zdGFuY2VzLiBEbyB3ZSBvciBkbyB3ZSBu b3QgCj4+PiBoYXZlIGFncmVlbWVudCByZWdhcmRpbmcgKnRoYXQqIHByb3Bvc2FsPwo+PiBJIGFt IG9wcG9zZWQgdG8gdGhlIGlkZWEgb2YgYWRkaW5nIHN1Y2ggYSBjb21tZW50LCBhcyBJIGRvIG5v dCBiZWxpZXZlIAo+PiB0aGUgY29udGVudHMgb2YgQ29tbWVudCBmaWVsZHMgc2hvdWxkIGJlIHBh cnQgb2YgdGhlIGFsZ29yaXRobXMgb2YgQkNQIAo+PiA0Ny4KPiAKPiBBY3R1YWxseSwgdGhlIHBy b3Bvc2VkIGNvbW1lbnQgd291bGQgbm90IGZvcm0gcGFydCBvZiB0aGUgYWxnb3JpdGhtLiAKPiBS YXRoZXIsIGl0IHdvdWxkIGhlbHAgcmVtaW5kIGltcGxlbWVudGVycyBhbmQgdG91cmlzdHMgYWxp a2UgdGhhdCB0aGUgCj4gY29ycmVjdCBhbGdvcml0aG0gaXMgdG8gZm9sbG93IHRoZSBjaGFpbiBv ZiBQcmVmZXJyZWQtVmFsdWVzLCBpbnN0ZWFkIG9mIAo+IHN0b3BwaW5nIGFmdGVyIHRoZSBmaXJz dCBvbmUuCj4gCj4gVGhhdCBzYWlkLCBJIHRvbyBhbSBjb25jZXJuZWQgYWJvdXQgc3BlY2lmeWlu ZyBhbGdvcml0aG1pYyBiZWhhdmlvciBpbiAKPiBDb21tZW50cyBmaWVsZHMuICBSZW1lbWJlciB0 aGF0IHRoZSBjdXJyZW50IFJlZ2lzdHJ5IGhhcyBhIGdyb3VwIG9mIAo+IHJhdGhlciBpbmFuZSBD b21tZW50cyBmaWVsZHMgbGlrZSB0aGlzOgo+IAo+IFR5cGU6IGdyYW5kZmF0aGVyZWQKPiBUYWc6 IGktbmF2YWpvCj4gRGVzY3JpcHRpb246IE5hdmFqbwo+IEFkZGVkOiAxOTk3LTA5LTE5Cj4gUHJl ZmVycmVkLVZhbHVlOiBudgo+IERlcHJlY2F0ZWQ6IDIwMDAtMDItMTgKPiBDb21tZW50czogcmVw bGFjZWQgYnkgSVNPIGNvZGUgbnYKPiAKPiBTb21lIHBlb3BsZSB3aG8gZG9uJ3QgdW5kZXJzdGFu ZCB0aGF0IHRoZSBDb21tZW50cyBmaWVsZCBpbiB0aGlzIGNhc2UgCj4gc2ltcGx5IG1pcnJvcnMg dGhlIFByZWZlcnJlZC1WYWx1ZSBmaWVsZCBtaWdodCB0aGluayB0aGUgQ29tbWVudHMgZmllbGQg Cj4gaXMgbm9ybWF0aXZlLgo+IAo+IEkgd291bGQgYmUgbGVlcnkgYWJvdXQgYWRkaW5nIGNvbW1l bnRzIHRoYXQgcGVvcGxlIG1pZ2h0ICp0aGluayogZm9ybSAKPiBwYXJ0IG9mIHRoZSBhbGdvcml0 aG0sIGFzIEpvaG4gZGlkLCBldmVuIGlmIHRoZXkgZG9uJ3QgcmVhbGx5Lgo+IAo+IEluIGFueSBj YXNlLCBhbnkgcHJvcG9zYWwgaW4gNDY0NmJpcyB0aGF0IGltcG9zZXMgYSBjaGFuZ2Ugb24gdGhl IAo+IHVwZGF0ZWQgUmVnaXN0cnkgaW4gNDY0NWJpcyBzaG91bGQgYmUgY29uc2lkZXJlZCB0ZWNo bmljYWwsIG5vdCAKPiBlZGl0b3JpYWwuCj4gCj4gLS0KPiBEb3VnIEV3ZWxsICAqICBGdWxsZXJ0 b24sIENhbGlmb3JuaWEsIFVTQSAgKiAgUkZDIDQ2NDUgICogIFVUTiAjMTQKPiBodHRwOi8vd3d3 LmV3ZWxsaWMub3JnCj4gaHR0cDovL3d3dzEuaWV0Zi5vcmcvaHRtbC5jaGFydGVycy9sdHJ1LWNo YXJ0ZXIuaHRtbAo+IGh0dHA6Ly93d3cuYWx2ZXN0cmFuZC5uby9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL2ll dGYtbGFuZ3VhZ2VzICDLhgo+IAo+IF9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fCj4gTHRydSBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QKPiBMdHJ1QGlldGYub3JnCj4gaHR0cDov L3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL2x0cnUKCgotLSAKQWRkaXNvbiBQaGlsbGlw cwpHbG9iYWxpemF0aW9uIEFyY2hpdGVjdCAtLSBZYWhvbyEgSW5jLgpDaGFpciAtLSBXM0MgSW50 ZXJuYXRpb25hbGl6YXRpb24gQ29yZSBXRwoKSW50ZXJuYXRpb25hbGl6YXRpb24gaXMgYW4gYXJj aGl0ZWN0dXJlLgpJdCBpcyBub3QgYSBmZWF0dXJlLgpfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXwpMdHJ1IG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdApMdHJ1QGlldGYub3JnCmh0 dHA6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9sdHJ1Cg== From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Thu Feb 21 20:19:02 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 093EE28C9BC; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 20:19:02 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.55 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.113, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sDcUrqgyq-US; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 20:19:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D0CE28C8CB; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 20:19:01 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A618028C579 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 20:18:59 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id avRon+bgG8Bh for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 20:18:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from earth.ccil.org (earth.ccil.org [192.190.237.11]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3F6D28C159 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 20:18:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from cowan by earth.ccil.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1JSPN7-00068k-Sp; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 23:18:53 -0500 Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 23:18:53 -0500 To: Addison Phillips Message-ID: <20080222041853.GB21605@mercury.ccil.org> References: <47B28753.5090406@yahoo-inc.com> <30b660a20802130859n7cb1c324v31dac9b1473e7aa3@mail.gmail.com> <009901c86e7e$8a1f4960$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> <47BE36A0.4080209@yahoo-inc.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <47BE36A0.4080209@yahoo-inc.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11) From: John Cowan Cc: LTRU Working Group Subject: Re: [Ltru] folding boundaries X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Addison Phillips scripsit: > Folding is done according to customary conventions for line-wrapping. > This is typically on whitespace boundaries, but can occur between other > characters when the value does not contain whitespace (such as a comment > in a language that doesn't use spaces). For more information, see target="UAX14">. I'm still troubled by this in principle, though not so much in practice. As things stand, it's impossible to tell, based on this paragraph, whether foo: bar baz is equivalent to foo: barbaz or foo: bar baz For merely human readable stuff in the registry, which is what is likely to be folded, it doesn't matter so much, but in other applications of record-jar, it could be a serious issue. -- You escaped them by the will-death John Cowan and the Way of the Black Wheel. cowan@ccil.org I could not. --Great-Souled Sam http://www.ccil.org/~cowan _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Thu Feb 21 20:21:31 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 934C228C8CA; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 20:21:31 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.557 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.557 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.120, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nRyP5I5L5q9P; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 20:21:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C47E128C30E; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 20:21:30 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C491428C30E for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 20:21:28 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9+oOX0Cf4zeR for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 20:21:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from earth.ccil.org (earth.ccil.org [192.190.237.11]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BF5728C216 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 20:21:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from cowan by earth.ccil.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1JSPPX-0006KX-AZ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 23:21:23 -0500 Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 23:21:23 -0500 To: Addison Phillips Message-ID: <20080222042123.GC21605@mercury.ccil.org> References: <30b660a20802151222o763fea90p843bb48c56169c7c@mail.gmail.com> <47BE458D.1000505@yahoo-inc.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <47BE458D.1000505@yahoo-inc.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11) From: John Cowan Cc: CE Whitehead , ltru@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Ltru] Editorial Comments Only--RFC4646bis-11 X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Addison Phillips scripsit: > UN numeric codes for countries or areas which are assigned ISO 3166 > alpha2 codes already present in the registry, MUST be defined according > to the rules in and MUST be used to form > language tags that represent the country or region for which they are > defined. This happens when ISO 3166 reassigns a code formerly used for > one country to another. What still remains open is what should happen when 3166/MA reassigns a code formerly used for one country to that same country. -- A rose by any other name John Cowan may smell as sweet, http://www.ccil.org/~cowan but if you called it an onion cowan@ccil.org you'd get cooks very confused. --RMS _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Thu Feb 21 21:05:08 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 622F83A6C28; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 21:05:08 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.784 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.784 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.347, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Xmx0piXuFRQe; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 21:05:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A7123A6BF2; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 21:05:07 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34A4D3A6C1C for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 21:05:06 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FF-wVaX0+oDn for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 21:05:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from rsmtp1.corp.yahoo.com (rsmtp1.corp.yahoo.com [207.126.228.149]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8E3A3A6B5F for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 21:05:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.72.73.143] (snvvpn1-10-72-73-c143.corp.yahoo.com [10.72.73.143]) by rsmtp1.corp.yahoo.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/y.rout) with ESMTP id m1M54lCF086625; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 21:04:47 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; s=serpent; d=yahoo-inc.com; c=nofws; q=dns; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject: references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=olpt3aYkeXdn16MMuIFRW9d1guYE8Q5yUjDn0j8nNYQWRtwtOU0zs79+Y/6Kxob8 Message-ID: <47BE57EE.5090007@yahoo-inc.com> Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 21:04:46 -0800 From: Addison Phillips User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mark Davis References: <30b660a20802131101h3f58fa4bh6730cc706ad2d9d9@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <30b660a20802131101h3f58fa4bh6730cc706ad2d9d9@mail.gmail.com> Cc: LTRU Working Group Subject: Re: [Ltru] Proposed edits (davis) X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Editor hat on unless otherwise noted. Actions/comments follow, with Randy's extracted items omitted: Mark Davis wrote: > > MD1 > values are not recognized. Thus, a parser need not have an up-to- > date copy (or any copy at all) of the subtag registry to perform most > searching and matching operations. > => > values are not recognized. Thus, a parser need not have an up-to- > date copy (or any copy at all) of the subtag registry to perform common > searching and matching operations. > > [most => common] DONE. > > --------- > MD2 > > language = (2*3ALPHA) ; shortest ISO 639 code > / 4ALPHA ; reserved for future use > / 5*8ALPHA ; registered language subtag > => > language = (2*3ALPHA) ; shortest ISO 639 code > / 4ALPHA ; reserved for possible future use > / 5*8ALPHA ; registered language subtag > > [insert 'possible', matching description below.] Love too. Can't. It makes it too wide. As technical contributor: I think it's not strictly important. > > ----- > MD3 > appropriate) in forming a language tag with the variant. That is, > each of the subtags in the prefix SHOULD appear before the variant. > For example, the subtag 'nedis' has a Prefix of "sl", making it > => > appropriate) in forming a language tag with the variant. That is, > each of the subtags in the prefix SHOULD appear, in order, before > the variant. > For example, the subtag 'nedis' has a Prefix of "sl", making it > > [add 'in order'] DONE. Although I think this is kind of redundant. > > ------ > MD4 > For example: Users who wished to utilize codes from the Ethnologue > publication of SIL International for language identification might > agree to exchange tags such as "az-Arab-x-AZE-derbend". This example > contains two private use subtags. The first is 'AZE' and the second > is 'derbend'. > => > For example: The Unicode Consortium defines a set of private use > extensions in LDML (Locale Data Markup Language), such as > en-US-x-ldml-POSIX-k-calendar-islamic-k-colStren-secondar, which > indicates that en-US is being used, but with the (non-standard) POSIX > variant is being used, and that formatting of dates should use the > islamic calendar, with case being ignored in sorted lists. For more > information, see [LDML]. > > [Reason: replace a hypothetical example with a real one.] As technical contributor: Moreover, the SIL example is now probably harmful, seeing as the items are now all first-class primary language subtags! As editor: DONE. Edited as follows: For example: The Unicode Consortium defines a set of private use extensions in LDML (, Locale Data Markup Language, a standard for defining locale data). One LDML-defined use of private use subtags might be the tag "en-US-x-ldml-POSIX-k-calendar-islamic-k-colStren-secondar", which, in addition to indicating that the language "en-US" is being used, indicates locale-related variations, such as that the (non-standard) POSIX variant is being used; that formatting of dates might use the Islamic calendar; and that case is being ignored in sorted lists. Note also the addition of an *informative* reference to UTS#35 (LDML) > > ----- > MD5 > to validate the tag. A more-recent copy of the registry might > => > to validate the tag. A more recent copy of the registry might > [typo] > DONE. > ----- > MD6 ===omitted as randy extracted it=== > > ----- > MD7 > variant 'nedis' is 'sl', meaning that the tags "sl-nedis" and > "sl-IT-nedis" might be appropriate while the tag "is-nedis" is > not. > => > variant 'nedis' is 'sl', meaning that the tags "sl-nedis" and > "sl-IT-nedis" are appropriate while the tag "is-nedis" is > not. > [consistence mood] DONE. > > ----- > MD8 ===omitted as randy extracted it=== > > ----- > MD9 > The field 'Comments' conveys additional information about the record > and MAY appear more than once per record. The field-body MAY include > => > The field 'Comments' conveys additional information about the record > as needed for clarity: it is not intended to provide general background > information. > > It MAY appear more than once per record. The field-body MAY include > > [add more guidance on scope of comments] As technical contributor: I'm not sure we want to limit it this way. ietf-languages might register all sorts of weird general background information :-). > > ----- > MD10 > To ensure consistent backward compatibility, this document contains > several provisions to account for potential instability in the > standards used to define the subtags that make up language tags. > These provisions mean that no language tag created under the rules in > this document will become invalid. > => > To ensure consistent backward compatibility, this document contains > several provisions to account for potential instability in the > standards used to define the subtags that make up language tags. > These provisions mean that no language tag created under the rules in > this document will become invalid, nor will that language tag have a > narrower scope in the future (it may have a broader scope). > > [clarify broadening, relating to use elsewhere] DONE. Note corrected "will that" to "will a". > > ----- > MD11 > MD12 ===omitted as randy extracted them=== > > ----- > [MD13] > The relationship between the tag and the information it identifies is > defined by the context in which the tag appears. Accordingly, this > section gives only possible examples of its usage. > [add at bottom of list] > o Language tags form the basis for most implementations of locale > identifiers. For example, see the Unicode Locales project [CLDR]. > DONE. I spelled out CLDR. Language tags form the basis for most implementations of locale identifiers. For example, see Unicode's CLDR (Common Locale Data Repository) project. -- Addison Phillips Globalization Architect -- Yahoo! Inc. Chair -- W3C Internationalization Core WG Internationalization is an architecture. It is not a feature. _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Thu Feb 21 21:07:08 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B1FA3A67A2; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 21:07:08 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.782 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.782 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.345, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id INwQUecF3fhL; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 21:07:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACD353A6982; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 21:07:07 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 822FA3A6982 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 21:07:06 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id J8YWlEm070Qp for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 21:07:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from rsmtp1.corp.yahoo.com (rsmtp1.corp.yahoo.com [207.126.228.149]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA0913A67A2 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 21:07:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.72.73.143] (snvvpn1-10-72-73-c143.corp.yahoo.com [10.72.73.143]) by rsmtp1.corp.yahoo.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/y.rout) with ESMTP id m1M56jLw086701; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 21:06:46 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; s=serpent; d=yahoo-inc.com; c=nofws; q=dns; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject: references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=jCpUM+7BIQXRwj+Jq+AeC1FRoM7cmB0jOzQNkgzasypyzSZgjqSpoJj1G2Fa1q8h Message-ID: <47BE5865.3060203@yahoo-inc.com> Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 21:06:45 -0800 From: Addison Phillips User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: John Cowan References: <30b660a20802151222o763fea90p843bb48c56169c7c@mail.gmail.com> <47BE458D.1000505@yahoo-inc.com> <20080222042123.GC21605@mercury.ccil.org> In-Reply-To: <20080222042123.GC21605@mercury.ccil.org> Cc: CE Whitehead , ltru@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Ltru] Editorial Comments Only--RFC4646bis-11 X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org John Cowan wrote: > Addison Phillips scripsit: > >> UN numeric codes for countries or areas which are assigned ISO 3166 >> alpha2 codes already present in the registry, MUST be defined according >> to the rules in and MUST be used to form >> language tags that represent the country or region for which they are >> defined. This happens when ISO 3166 reassigns a code formerly used for >> one country to another. > > What still remains open is what should happen when 3166/MA reassigns a > code formerly used for one country to that same country. > Yes, the Burma->Myanmar->Burma conjecture. Care was used not to prohibit it here. Addison -- Addison Phillips Globalization Architect -- Yahoo! Inc. Chair -- W3C Internationalization Core WG Internationalization is an architecture. It is not a feature. _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Thu Feb 21 21:08:49 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18DF93A6C20; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 21:08:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.778 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.778 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.341, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ph4606CfKeDr; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 21:08:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 559093A6C21; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 21:08:48 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D14DF3A6C21 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 21:08:47 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5C90TGM+6UnK for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 21:08:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from rsmtp1.corp.yahoo.com (rsmtp1.corp.yahoo.com [207.126.228.149]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2248B3A6C1C for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 21:08:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.72.73.143] (snvvpn1-10-72-73-c143.corp.yahoo.com [10.72.73.143]) by rsmtp1.corp.yahoo.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/y.rout) with ESMTP id m1M58asm086770; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 21:08:36 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; s=serpent; d=yahoo-inc.com; c=nofws; q=dns; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject: references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=jbWXEkYVIvu0pcRqPBgKMtn/Hk0dt53ZYJK+idJW0EMSl4VpEHZ2xXBlTTe2VxK0 Message-ID: <47BE58D4.2070609@yahoo-inc.com> Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 21:08:36 -0800 From: Addison Phillips User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: John Cowan References: <47B28753.5090406@yahoo-inc.com> <30b660a20802130859n7cb1c324v31dac9b1473e7aa3@mail.gmail.com> <009901c86e7e$8a1f4960$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> <47BE36A0.4080209@yahoo-inc.com> <20080222041853.GB21605@mercury.ccil.org> In-Reply-To: <20080222041853.GB21605@mercury.ccil.org> Cc: LTRU Working Group Subject: Re: [Ltru] folding boundaries X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org John Cowan wrote: > Addison Phillips scripsit: > >> Folding is done according to customary conventions for line-wrapping. >> This is typically on whitespace boundaries, but can occur between other >> characters when the value does not contain whitespace (such as a comment >> in a language that doesn't use spaces). For more information, see > target="UAX14">. > > I'm still troubled by this in principle, though not so much in practice. > As things stand, it's impossible to tell, based on this paragraph, whether > > foo: bar > baz > > is equivalent to > > foo: barbaz > > or > > foo: bar baz > > For merely human readable stuff in the registry, which is what is > likely to be folded, it doesn't matter so much, but in other > applications of record-jar, it could be a serious issue. > Noted. Not particularly important here, but definitely so elsewhere :-). -- Addison Phillips Globalization Architect -- Yahoo! Inc. Chair -- W3C Internationalization Core WG Internationalization is an architecture. It is not a feature. _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Thu Feb 21 22:12:56 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0016E3A6B55; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 22:12:55 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.774 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.774 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.337, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id X96qBLTx5Y2X; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 22:12:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 412573A6B5A; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 22:12:55 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89DFA3A6B95 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 22:12:53 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YzL9HEa-xdny for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 22:12:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from rsmtp1.corp.yahoo.com (rsmtp1.corp.yahoo.com [207.126.228.149]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58BD03A6B5A for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 22:12:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.72.73.143] (snvvpn1-10-72-73-c143.corp.yahoo.com [10.72.73.143]) by rsmtp1.corp.yahoo.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/y.rout) with ESMTP id m1M6CcaV089385 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2008 22:12:38 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; s=serpent; d=yahoo-inc.com; c=nofws; q=dns; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject: content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=CHrPQnjFuRIrpmoxjVOnxwZsJqKiWLUqH+KXHpTRN3LU0fJ5GzDkk0tduBfq9aBQ Message-ID: <47BE67D6.5070702@yahoo-inc.com> Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 22:12:38 -0800 From: Addison Phillips User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "'LTRU Working Group'" Subject: [Ltru] editor copy updated... X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org All, After a flurry of "editor" messages, the editor's copies are updated on inter-locale, reflecting my responses on the list. Addison -- Addison Phillips Globalization Architect -- Yahoo! Inc. Chair -- W3C Internationalization Core WG Internationalization is an architecture. It is not a feature. _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Fri Feb 22 05:29:41 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B7243A6CBE; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 05:29:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.268 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.268 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.295, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, HTML_MESSAGE=1, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id B+KjjZgOD082; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 05:29:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 131D728C28D; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 05:29:40 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 669EC3A6817 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 05:29:39 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id L0WhdhZoFvKU for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 05:29:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from rv-out-0910.google.com (rv-out-0910.google.com [209.85.198.186]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BC4C3A6CB6 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 05:29:37 -0800 (PST) Received: by rv-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id l15so235390rvb.49 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 05:29:33 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; bh=xwXhn8CmQHYg/7zdwi+AYaA4mUdTVTFFd/4qnSYTFYo=; b=RR4+OgKn///NGfPwiELlshC54q3RsAvpKUKwSOLhZW4FyRK5Pw+jOBKlInq2lG5ON0iWRyb10UgYqbodpwVVmc/Q4HPggpLrwJXoDiICMJwtsXbl5VPGVa2Q17oJzywSTpgVh5jE1/xL3a+X65unRilD26nYDgLx5ezB5cHfh/Y= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=qrGfE0AOGcVpd4euOLqqYSRXmkxj6iM1e8hpEZQEKWZSK7Q/XuPFJ8dkQhPJTgWM2EoevvKavD7eXa5iASwwpIoCM42SBpBcypVsE2px0GdPWlbGjP/ABmQlqz9TaBeScPhhmq01JLm4B6/ZFBAe4x1i1k5Xq+CjBJmr/XWVBrs= Received: by 10.141.43.5 with SMTP id v5mr7647280rvj.49.1203686943543; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 05:29:03 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.140.166.2 with HTTP; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 05:29:03 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <5b0cbc7c0802220529l54fde2e5ic522a99e6bb37a97@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 14:29:03 +0100 From: LB To: "LTRU Working Group" In-Reply-To: <30b660a20802211911s14836ee6tb6b82183b363fdb7@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <00f501c87176$7fec95b0$0a00a8c0@CPQ86763045110> <008501c871d6$7ea769e0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> <30b660a20802180734m55e7d7acg7c89f8ea30455d1b@mail.gmail.com> <05e201c8746f$21474590$0a00a8c0@CPQ86763045110> <47BE3AB4.2010906@yahoo-inc.com> <30b660a20802211911s14836ee6tb6b82183b363fdb7@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Ltru] Language Subtag Reviewer X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0038418682==" Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org --===============0038418682== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_150_22827387.1203686943540" ------=_Part_150_22827387.1203686943540 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I regret that co-Chairs do not consider the modification of the text which I proposed. This raises a problem concerning the possible LSR of test such as they can legally appear (cf. Adoba / Carpenter: draft-carpenter-extension-recs-02). It will thus be up to the experimenters to phraser security rules for the execution of their tests. Without indication on behalf of RFC 4646bis, we risk nevertheless to end in conflicts. ----- LB 2008/2/22, Mark Davis : > > I agree with Addison, I oppose changing the draft. > This language is the result of a compromise reached some time ago, and > should not be changed -- unless we want to rehash a long argument about it. > > Mark > > On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 7:00 PM, Addison Phillips > wrote: > > > As technical contributor: I oppose changing the draft. > > > > As editor: since there haven't been many contributions on this thread > > yet, I haven't made an edit here. > > > > Addison > > > > Debbie Garside wrote: > > > In other words the text is deliberate in requiring the IESG to solicit > > > nominees upon publication of this document. > > > > > > I think this is a waste of time for the people involved. I doubt > > > whether anyone but Michael would get the job as he has served for so > > > long and IMHO performs the duties of LSR perfectly well. > > > > > > Debbie > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > *From:* ltru-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ltru-bounces@ietf.org] *On > > > Behalf Of *Mark Davis > > > *Sent:* 18 February 2008 15:35 > > > *To:* Randy Presuhn > > > *Cc:* ltru@ietf.org > > > *Subject:* Re: [Ltru] Language Subtag Reviewer > > > > > > -1 > > > > > > That language was deliberate, after an extended email debate. It > > > should be retained. > > > > > > Mark > > > > > > On Feb 17, 2008 6:32 PM, Randy Presuhn < > > randy_presuhn@mindspring.com > > > > wrote: > > > > > > Hi - > > > > > > > From: "Debbie Garside" > > > > > > > To: > > > > > Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 7:05 AM > > > > Subject: [Ltru] Language Subtag Reviewer > > > ... > > > > Can you clarify the following: > > > > > > > > --- > > > > The Language Subtag Reviewer is appointed by the IESG > > for an > > > > indefinite term, subject to removal or replacement at > > the > > > IESG's > > > > discretion. The IESG will solicit nominees for the > > > position (upon > > > > adoption of this document or upon a vacancy) and then > > solicit > > > > feedback on the nominees' qualifications. Qualified > > > candidates > > > > should be familiar with BCP 47 and its requirements; be > > > willing to > > > > fairly, responsively, and judiciously administer the > > > registration > > > > process; and be suitably informed about the issues of > > language > > > > identification so that they can draw upon and assess the > > > claim and > > > > contributions of language experts and subtag requesters. > > > > > > > > --- > > > > > > > > Does this mean that the IESG are required to solicit > > nominees > > > for the > > > > position of Language Subtag Reviewer upon the adoption of > > > this document? Or > > > > does it mean just when a vacancy arises? > > > ... > > > > > > As a technical contributor: > > > replace "(upon adoption of this document or upon a vacancy)" > > > with "upon a vacancy". > > > > > > Randy > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Ltru mailing list > > > Ltru@ietf.org > > > http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Mark > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Ltru mailing list > > > Ltru@ietf.org > > > http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru > > > > > > -- > > Addison Phillips > > Globalization Architect -- Yahoo! Inc. > > Chair -- W3C Internationalization Core WG > > > > Internationalization is an architecture. > > It is not a feature. > > > > > > -- > Mark > > _______________________________________________ > Ltru mailing list > Ltru@ietf.org > http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru > > ------=_Part_150_22827387.1203686943540 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I regret that co-Chairs do not consider the modification of the text which I proposed. This raises a problem concerning the possible LSR of test such as they can legally appear (cf. Adoba / Carpenter: draft-carpenter-extension-recs-02). It will thus be up to the experimenters to phraser security rules for the execution of their tests. Without indication on behalf of RFC 4646bis, we risk nevertheless to end in conflicts.
-----
LB


2008/2/22, Mark Davis <mark.davis@icu-project.org>:
I agree with Addison, I oppose changing the draft.

This language is the result of a compromise reached some time ago, and should not be changed -- unless we want to rehash a long argument about it.

Mark


On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 7:00 PM, Addison Phillips <addison@yahoo-inc.com> wrote:
As technical contributor: I oppose changing the draft.

As editor: since there haven't been many contributions on this thread
yet, I haven't made an edit here.

Addison

Debbie Garside wrote:
> In other words the text is deliberate in requiring the IESG to solicit
> nominees upon publication of this document.
>
> I think this is a waste of time for the people involved.  I doubt
> whether anyone but Michael would get the job as he has served for so
> long and IMHO performs the duties of LSR perfectly well.
>
> Debbie
>
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>     *From:* ltru-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ltru-bounces@ietf.org] *On
>     Behalf Of *Mark Davis
>     *Sent:* 18 February 2008 15:35
>     *To:* Randy Presuhn
>     *Cc:* ltru@ietf.org
>     *Subject:* Re: [Ltru] Language Subtag Reviewer
>
>     -1
>
>     That language was deliberate, after an extended email debate. It
>     should be retained.
>
>     Mark
>
>     On Feb 17, 2008 6:32 PM, Randy Presuhn <randy_presuhn@mindspring.com
>     <mailto:randy_presuhn@mindspring.com>> wrote:
>
>         Hi -
>
>          > From: "Debbie Garside" <debbie@ictmarketing.co.uk
>         <mailto:debbie@ictmarketing.co.uk>>
>          > To: <ltru@ietf.org <mailto:ltru@ietf.org>>
>          > Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 7:05 AM
>          > Subject: [Ltru] Language Subtag Reviewer
>         ...
>          > Can you clarify the following:
>          >
>          > ---
>          >    The Language Subtag Reviewer is appointed by the IESG for an
>          >    indefinite term, subject to removal or replacement at the
>         IESG's
>          >    discretion.  The IESG will solicit nominees for the
>         position (upon
>          >    adoption of this document or upon a vacancy) and then solicit
>          >    feedback on the nominees' qualifications.  Qualified
>         candidates
>          >    should be familiar with BCP 47 and its requirements; be
>         willing to
>          >    fairly, responsively, and judiciously administer the
>         registration
>          >    process; and be suitably informed about the issues of language
>          >    identification so that they can draw upon and assess the
>         claim and
>          >    contributions of language experts and subtag requesters.
>          >
>          > ---
>          >
>          > Does this mean that the IESG are required to solicit nominees
>         for the
>          > position of Language Subtag Reviewer upon the adoption of
>         this document?  Or
>          > does it mean just when a vacancy arises?
>         ...
>
>         As a technical contributor:
>         replace "(upon adoption of this document or upon a vacancy)"
>         with "upon a vacancy".
>
>         Randy
>
>         _______________________________________________
>         Ltru mailing list
>         Ltru@ietf.org <mailto:Ltru@ietf.org>
>         http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru
>
>
>
>
>     --
>     Mark
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ltru mailing list
> Ltru@ietf.org
> http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru


--
Addison Phillips
Globalization Architect -- Yahoo! Inc.
Chair -- W3C Internationalization Core WG

Internationalization is an architecture.
It is not a feature.



--
Mark

_______________________________________________
Ltru mailing list
Ltru@ietf.org
http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru



------=_Part_150_22827387.1203686943540-- --===============0038418682== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru --===============0038418682==-- From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Fri Feb 22 07:55:39 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 374F53A6C26; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 07:55:39 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.535 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.535 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.650, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, HTML_MESSAGE=1, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by 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Message-ID: <30b660a20802220755y738e6f7fy5ebef84380e2d355@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 07:55:21 -0800 From: "Mark Davis" To: "Addison Phillips" In-Reply-To: <47BE4C90.9060707@yahoo-inc.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <008901c87062$aa447c20$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> <47BE4C90.9060707@yahoo-inc.com> X-Google-Sender-Auth: cdeab21658b16919 Cc: Doug Ewell , LTRU Working Group Subject: Re: [Ltru] Proposed edit MD12 (davis) X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0469496770==" Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org --===============0469496770== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_404_2456934.1203695722028" ------=_Part_404_2456934.1203695722028 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 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list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru --===============0469496770==-- From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Fri Feb 22 08:25:03 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB74728C2C1; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 08:25:03 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.772 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.772 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.335, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YBHRbHAKYkZu; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 08:25:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 047C628CA6F; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 08:22:47 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4333128C2DF for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 08:22:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UlJ+plrgrWsM for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 08:22:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from rsmtp1.corp.yahoo.com (rsmtp1.corp.yahoo.com [207.126.228.149]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9EA3528C17E for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 08:21:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.72.73.143] (snvvpn1-10-72-73-c143.corp.yahoo.com [10.72.73.143]) by rsmtp1.corp.yahoo.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/y.rout) with ESMTP id m1MGL26m014135; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 08:21:03 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; s=serpent; d=yahoo-inc.com; c=nofws; q=dns; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject: references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=Y8Cg6dgLfa1ol5OCDF5tPgahhLHQqjILYKy5at3NQ4j2NyhlVAFXhR3mjMHAs+81 Message-ID: <47BEF669.2070400@yahoo-inc.com> Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 08:20:57 -0800 From: Addison Phillips User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mark Davis References: <008901c87062$aa447c20$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> <47BE4C90.9060707@yahoo-inc.com> <30b660a20802220755y738e6f7fy5ebef84380e2d355@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <30b660a20802220755y738e6f7fy5ebef84380e2d355@mail.gmail.com> Cc: Doug Ewell , LTRU Working Group Subject: Re: [Ltru] Proposed edit MD12 (davis) X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org 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X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18KPiAgICAgTHRydSBtYWlsaW5nIGxp c3QKPiAgICAgTHRydUBpZXRmLm9yZyA8bWFpbHRvOkx0cnVAaWV0Zi5vcmc+Cj4gICAgIGh0dHA6 Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9sdHJ1Cj4gCj4gCj4gCj4gCj4gLS0gCj4g TWFyawoKCi0tIApBZGRpc29uIFBoaWxsaXBzCkdsb2JhbGl6YXRpb24gQXJjaGl0ZWN0IC0tIFlh aG9vISBJbmMuCkNoYWlyIC0tIFczQyBJbnRlcm5hdGlvbmFsaXphdGlvbiBDb3JlIFdHCgpJbnRl cm5hdGlvbmFsaXphdGlvbiBpcyBhbiBhcmNoaXRlY3R1cmUuCkl0IGlzIG5vdCBhIGZlYXR1cmUu Cl9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fCkx0cnUgbWFp bGluZyBsaXN0Ckx0cnVAaWV0Zi5vcmcKaHR0cDovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3Rp bmZvL2x0cnUK From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Fri Feb 22 08:51:33 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE9013A6CCE; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 08:51:33 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.766 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.766 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.329, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Qz1SNrKl58-0; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 08:51:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5547D28C2B8; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 08:51:22 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE2D528C33D for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 08:51:20 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id L86jfyjdaSsO for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 08:51:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from rsmtp2.corp.yahoo.com (rsmtp2.corp.yahoo.com [207.126.228.150]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D16AD28C5A1 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 08:47:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.72.73.143] (snvvpn1-10-72-73-c143.corp.yahoo.com [10.72.73.143]) by rsmtp2.corp.yahoo.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/y.rout) with ESMTP id m1MGkkx9083940; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 08:46:46 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; s=serpent; d=yahoo-inc.com; c=nofws; q=dns; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject: references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=htQ98OwkJDd34iZAbH62cYnz9rauIZFIqrdwh5N+PeedHxlIwRnUgjI0JgwcB+Uw Message-ID: <47BEFC76.3030202@yahoo-inc.com> Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 08:46:46 -0800 From: Addison Phillips User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mark Davis , "'LTRU Working Group'" References: <30b660a20802131101h3f58fa4bh6730cc706ad2d9d9@mail.gmail.com> <47BE57EE.5090007@yahoo-inc.com> <30b660a20802220809q7127d2b0v4749f75a4ae8f8d9@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <30b660a20802220809q7127d2b0v4749f75a4ae8f8d9@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Ltru] Proposed edits (davis) X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Mark and I were working on a few edits. Herewith a summary of a couple things that we should put on-list. Mark Davis wrote: > > DONE. Edited as follows: > .... > > I'd suggest the following change to your text, to make it pithier also. > > For example: The Unicode Consortium defines a set of private > use extensions in LDML (, Locale Data > Markup Language, the Unicode standard for defining locale data) such as > in the tag "es-419-x-ldml-collation-traditio", which indicates Latin > American Spanish with traditional order for sorted lists. Sounds good. I'll make that edit. I was a bit worried by having such a long example tag. > > As technical contributor: I'm not sure we want to limit it this way. > ietf-languages might register all sorts of weird general background > information :-). > > I think the issue was to have a clear statement that we don't want tons > of text in the registry -- for that, people should look at other > sources. Can you think of an alternative? In RFC 4646 (during one of the drafts) we removed the warning: -- Long screeds about a particular subtag are frowned upon. -- It was felt that the word "screed" was both too obscure and too judgmental. Personally, I thought it did the job. Perhaps: -- Large amounts of information about the use, history, or general background of a subtag are frowned upon: these generally belong and are encouraged in registration requests, but do not belong in the registry record proper. -- Best Regards, Addison -- Addison Phillips Globalization Architect -- Yahoo! Inc. Chair -- W3C Internationalization Core WG Internationalization is an architecture. It is not a feature. _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Fri Feb 22 08:51:40 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C67E28C377; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 08:51:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.874 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.874 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.312, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, HTML_MESSAGE=1, MIME_HTML_MOSTLY=0.001, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iBuHb9BdoZ2G; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 08:51:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD5AD28C429; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 08:51:33 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E480D28C47B for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 08:51:32 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YpJqHpbvI91P for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 08:51:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from wa-out-1112.google.com (wa-out-1112.google.com [209.85.146.182]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0672528C69F for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 08:50:46 -0800 (PST) Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id k40so844033wah.25 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 08:50:42 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references:x-google-sender-auth; bh=P6dx2ZgV+qtk+xCkpzHME+cKV6yEEtxik/9qXqQF3hA=; b=SHhA2eABudkGzbiQqfo2h6CLCNY5Kw9BIO9NoHgOCA8KueYmJc9276E4QzQ+qIaNsm2EAF/g+gK6LqM/Q+DrzQCRMAP0jGeLHMK0BUUuX80y57LAZ6ZmO9pzbzfMNmMY5TbU4E0WK7k1bQcb6Wr3gAGwfP4MvmPr/EgSXdf1p90= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references:x-google-sender-auth; b=leITnFZ/0AmEWXhW2bvmq+4Iz1Yk+XMIO/O9nNzfh0Afqx2Ek+SRTqDOPWOAfuR97mwfBI7HHseDZc9HbO/bvmX+pw+42+TN/i1R9kVsoTP8pkeI0omQMhzxqK9Yl3jFecurV84vY4EWi4Tpp2IkGmYgW9F+4xqqyZJn4pjlqhE= Received: by 10.114.15.1 with SMTP id 1mr226640wao.27.1203699042866; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 08:50:42 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.114.193.3 with HTTP; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 08:50:42 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <30b660a20802220850i7cbc046me3dd7005c566f6f1@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 08:50:42 -0800 From: "Mark Davis" To: "Addison Phillips" In-Reply-To: <47BEF669.2070400@yahoo-inc.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <008901c87062$aa447c20$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> <47BE4C90.9060707@yahoo-inc.com> <30b660a20802220755y738e6f7fy5ebef84380e2d355@mail.gmail.com> <47BEF669.2070400@yahoo-inc.com> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 72c7deafc1c497db Cc: Doug Ewell , LTRU Working Group Subject: Re: [Ltru] Proposed edit MD12 (davis) X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0740204031==" Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org --===============0740204031== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_1243_30812282.1203699042855" ------=_Part_1243_30812282.1203699042855 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 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[127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id H9Q8AIgfSaVc for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 08:51:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from wa-out-1112.google.com (wa-out-1112.google.com [209.85.146.178]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3569728C0FA for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 08:51:29 -0800 (PST) Received: by wa-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id k40so844438wah.25 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 08:51:25 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references:x-google-sender-auth; bh=L+csAwbClXeg7wkQotTKneIw7Kpm1JIpJVl7ma9d++A=; b=X8FwVni29qFOK7aaIy7iAClIb033xIF6XdZ3cncpI9/HuJJ6rHZgdOM2/O5r3kLj97zxXMy5wpoHGNj8eqPCoF5lufpEhmqQKY0ND6fpXB60KGtW1/kriGEarzKOOyVLFQG+RCcWl2Kwq7cUjucnNdilf0tC4A+ZdpIvl/OofmM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references:x-google-sender-auth; b=jDkp6MooydPS+91bnvnqRjXmPZjrZfzsiIOMKqOn+r3oX0EE2/aKhC69Aoq4fqrKoghwyLjR8xxxg22aWKWer+bKzm1e02/MIQsGC4YIom9QViuPc0SwU76qVmXSI/ar2Fykw6L+/UGLzuPItGvb0//9DuJBMRCmJ7sjZfscu/Q= Received: by 10.114.26.1 with SMTP id 1mr197666waz.80.1203699084968; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 08:51:24 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.114.193.3 with HTTP; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 08:51:24 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <30b660a20802220851n5983acc6x906b06ed9ba86015@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 08:51:24 -0800 From: "Mark Davis" To: "Addison Phillips" In-Reply-To: <47BEFC76.3030202@yahoo-inc.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <30b660a20802131101h3f58fa4bh6730cc706ad2d9d9@mail.gmail.com> <47BE57EE.5090007@yahoo-inc.com> <30b660a20802220809q7127d2b0v4749f75a4ae8f8d9@mail.gmail.com> <47BEFC76.3030202@yahoo-inc.com> X-Google-Sender-Auth: d5f8d05843802ed3 Cc: LTRU Working Group Subject: Re: [Ltru] Proposed edits (davis) X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0459982175==" Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org --===============0459982175== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_1252_24585294.1203699084965" ------=_Part_1252_24585294.1203699084965 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline +1 On Fri, Feb 22, 2008 at 8:46 AM, Addison Phillips wrote: > Mark and I were working on a few edits. Herewith a summary of a couple > things that we should put on-list. > > Mark Davis wrote: > > > > DONE. Edited as follows: > > > .... > > > > I'd suggest the following change to your text, to make it pithier also. > > > > For example: The Unicode Consortium defines a set of private > > use extensions in LDML (, Locale Data > > Markup Language, the Unicode standard for defining locale data) such as > > in the tag "es-419-x-ldml-collation-traditio", which indicates Latin > > American Spanish with traditional order for sorted lists. > > Sounds good. I'll make that edit. I was a bit worried by having such a > long example tag. > > > > > As technical contributor: I'm not sure we want to limit it this way. > > ietf-languages might register all sorts of weird general background > > information :-). > > > > I think the issue was to have a clear statement that we don't want tons > > of text in the registry -- for that, people should look at other > > sources. Can you think of an alternative? > > In RFC 4646 (during one of the drafts) we removed the warning: > > -- > Long screeds about a particular subtag are frowned upon. > -- > > It was felt that the word "screed" was both too obscure and too > judgmental. Personally, I thought it did the job. Perhaps: > > -- > Large amounts of information about the use, history, or general > background of a subtag are frowned upon: these generally belong and are > encouraged in registration requests, but do not belong in the registry > record proper. > -- > > Best Regards, > > Addison > > -- > Addison Phillips > Globalization Architect -- Yahoo! Inc. > Chair -- W3C Internationalization Core WG > > Internationalization is an architecture. > It is not a feature. > -- Mark ------=_Part_1252_24585294.1203699084965 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline +1

On Fri, Feb 22, 2008 at 8:46 AM, Addison Phillips <addison@yahoo-inc.com> wrote:
Mark and I were working on a few edits. Herewith a summary of a couple
things that we should put on-list.

Mark Davis wrote:
>
>     DONE. Edited as follows:
>
....
>
> I'd suggest the following change to your text, to make it pithier also.
>
> <t>For example: The Unicode Consortium defines a set of private
> use extensions in LDML (<xref target="UTS35"></xref>, Locale Data
> Markup Language, the Unicode standard for defining locale data) such as
> in the tag "es-419-x-ldml-collation-traditio", which indicates Latin
> American Spanish with traditional order for sorted lists.</t>

Sounds good. I'll make that edit. I was a bit worried by having such a
long example tag.

>
>     As technical contributor: I'm not sure we want to limit it this way.
>     ietf-languages might register all sorts of weird general background
>     information :-).
>
> I think the issue was to have a clear statement that we don't want tons
> of text in the registry -- for that, people should look at other
> sources. Can you think of an alternative?

In RFC 4646 (during one of the drafts) we removed the warning:

--
Long screeds about a particular subtag are frowned upon.
--

It was felt that the word "screed" was both too obscure and too
judgmental. Personally, I thought it did the job. Perhaps:

--
Large amounts of information about the use, history, or general
background of a subtag are frowned upon: these generally belong and are
encouraged in registration requests, but do not belong in the registry
record proper.
--

Best Regards,

Addison

--
Addison Phillips
Globalization Architect -- Yahoo! Inc.
Chair -- W3C Internationalization Core WG

Internationalization is an architecture.
It is not a feature.



--
Mark ------=_Part_1252_24585294.1203699084965-- --===============0459982175== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru --===============0459982175==-- From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Fri Feb 22 09:19:50 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78A5D3A6A40; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 09:19:50 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.843 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.843 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.280, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, HTML_MESSAGE=1, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iHFnLVqceoS9; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 09:19:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E267728C449; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 09:19:43 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6285928C30F for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 09:19:43 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id feYSsWmMkzWF for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 09:19:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from blu139-omc2-s3.blu139.hotmail.com (blu139-omc2-s3.blu139.hotmail.com [65.55.175.173]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7D0B28CA20 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 09:17:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from BLU109-W13 ([65.55.162.186]) by blu139-omc2-s3.blu139.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Fri, 22 Feb 2008 09:17:08 -0800 Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [168.12.253.66] From: CE Whitehead To: Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 12:17:08 -0500 Importance: Normal MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Feb 2008 17:17:08.0774 (UTC) FILETIME=[C12F1C60:01C87576] Subject: Re: [Ltru] Proposed edit MD12 (davis) X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0786833016==" Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org --===============0786833016== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_0465095a-d55e-4586-91d9-24aeb30a6d14_" --_0465095a-d55e-4586-91d9-24aeb30a6d14_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I supported John Cowan's change but see Addison's point, and agree that rel= axing the stability of Preferred-Value as Addison suggests is probably the = best thing to do. =20 --C. E. Whitehead cewcathar@hotmail.com=20 From: "Mark Davis" > On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 8:16 PM, Addison Phillips wrote: > > I *also* note a couple reasons why we didn't allow a change to the> > P= referred-Value but instead noted many times in RFC 4646 that you have> > to= follow the chain.> > However, I agree with Mark's Burma case. We should, i= n my opinion, relax> > the stability of Preferred-Value to allow removal or= modification. This> > would allow modifications to remove transitive links= (killing the second> > case above). It would also require some more modifi= cations to stability> > rules and maintenance requirements.> > Addison= --_0465095a-d55e-4586-91d9-24aeb30a6d14_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I supported John Cowan's change but see Addison's point, and agree that rel= axing the stability of Preferred-Value as Addison suggests is probably the = best thing to do.
 
--C. E. Whitehead
cewcathar@hotmail.com
From: "Mark Davis" <mark.davis at icu-project.org><= BR> > On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 8:16 PM, Addison Phillips <add= ison at yahoo-inc.com> wrote:

> > I *also* note a couple reasons why we didn't allow a change to th= e
> > Preferred-Value but instead noted many times in RFC 4646 tha= t you have
> > to follow the chain.

> > However, I ag= ree with Mark's Burma case. We should, in my opinion, relax
> > th= e stability of Preferred-Value to allow removal or modification. This
&g= t; > would allow modifications to remove transitive links (killing the s= econd
> > case above). It would also require some more modificatio= ns to stability
> > rules and maintenance requirements.

>= ; > Addison
= --_0465095a-d55e-4586-91d9-24aeb30a6d14_-- --===============0786833016== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru --===============0786833016==-- From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Fri Feb 22 09:23:03 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20AB328C48A; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 09:23:03 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.782 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.782 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.219, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, HTML_MESSAGE=1, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ehzHJfrdFBJE; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 09:23:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C04F728C38C; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 09:22:57 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D9EB28C25B for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 09:22:56 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RohdPZEeE005 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 09:22:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from blu139-omc2-s18.blu139.hotmail.com (blu139-omc2-s18.blu139.hotmail.com [65.55.175.188]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34CA428C39D for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 09:21:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from BLU109-W13 ([65.55.162.185]) by blu139-omc2-s18.blu139.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Fri, 22 Feb 2008 09:21:44 -0800 Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [168.12.253.66] From: CE Whitehead To: Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 12:21:44 -0500 Importance: Normal MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Feb 2008 17:21:44.0125 (UTC) FILETIME=[654E56D0:01C87577] Subject: [Ltru] RFC4646bis-11 Editorial Comments Only, Section 3.7 X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1948519638==" Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org --===============1948519638== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_d7209a67-6d16-42d5-b161-1eaba407e5c4_" --_d7209a67-6d16-42d5-b161-1eaba407e5c4_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable One more quick editorial comment for the draft: =20 http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ltru-4646bis-11.txt=20 (there's also of course an off-list question to Doug and Addison saying tha= t it's not clear to me from the relevant paragraphs in 3.1, 3.5, 5.1 exactl= y what subtags get registration forms): page 40, section 3.7Bottom of page= "'Added' contains the date the RFC was published in the "full-date" forma= t specified in [RFC3339]." {COMMENT: Date originally published? Or this = version? I assume originally published, but . . . am unsure . . . } --C. E= . Whiteheadcewcathar@hotmail.com = --_d7209a67-6d16-42d5-b161-1eaba407e5c4_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable One more quick editorial comment for the draft:
 
http://www.ietf.org/internet-dr= afts/draft-ietf-ltru-4646bis-11.txtthe date the RFC was published in the "full-date"
 &nb= sp; format specified in [RFC3339]."
 
{COMMENT:  Date origi= nally published?   Or this version?  I assume originally pub= lished, but . . . am unsure . . . }

 


--C. E. W= hitehead
cewcathar@hotmail.com<= /A>

= --_d7209a67-6d16-42d5-b161-1eaba407e5c4_-- --===============1948519638== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru --===============1948519638==-- From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Fri Feb 22 09:48:00 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FB9128C30F; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 09:48:00 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.763 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.763 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.326, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6ycieCsgoI5C; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 09:47:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AEE7428C25B; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 09:47:59 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 718BD3A68CD for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 09:47:58 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YLSG-bTJauaq for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 09:47:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from rsmtp1.corp.yahoo.com (rsmtp1.corp.yahoo.com [207.126.228.149]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C9B928C335 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 09:47:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.72.73.143] (snvvpn1-10-72-73-c143.corp.yahoo.com [10.72.73.143]) by rsmtp1.corp.yahoo.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/y.rout) with ESMTP id m1MHlcEl018768; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 09:47:38 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; s=serpent; d=yahoo-inc.com; c=nofws; q=dns; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject: references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=X9h8XZZ37CnLVQ9QLARElN0wg8Rai7lerTgG217FWXNI3dE68ZlUF5iw37euevb4 Message-ID: <47BF0AB9.6050003@yahoo-inc.com> Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 09:47:37 -0800 From: Addison Phillips User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: CE Whitehead References: In-Reply-To: Cc: ltru@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Ltru] RFC4646bis-11 Editorial Comments Only, Section 3.7 X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org CE Whitehead wrote: > One more quick editorial comment for the draft: > > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ltru-4646bis-11.txt > > (there's also of course an off-list question to Doug and Addison saying > that it's not clear to me from the relevant paragraphs in 3.1, 3.5, 5.1 > exactly what subtags get registration forms): > > page 40, section 3.7 > Bottom of page > "'Added' contains the date the RFC was published in the "full-date" > format specified in [RFC3339]." > > {COMMENT: Date originally published? Or this version? I assume > originally published, but . . . am unsure . . . } > Section 3.7 concerns itself with the Extensions registry. Each extension is defined by an RFC. The Added date in the Extensions registry reflects the publication date of the RFC defining the extension. I will edit the sentence to read: 'Added' contains the date the extension's RFC was published in the "full-date" format specified in . For example: 2004-06-28 represents June 28, 2004, in the Gregorian calendar. Regards, Addison -- Addison Phillips Globalization Architect -- Yahoo! Inc. Chair -- W3C Internationalization Core WG Internationalization is an architecture. It is not a feature. _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Fri Feb 22 09:54:18 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B95BD28C17D; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 09:54:18 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.742 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.742 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.179, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, HTML_MESSAGE=1, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id H6s4SespqZic; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 09:54:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB9C73A6B41; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 09:54:17 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 864803A6B41 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 09:54:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oeVkDsWbDAJ2 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 09:54:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from blu0-omc1-s1.blu0.hotmail.com (blu0-omc1-s1.blu0.hotmail.com [65.55.162.144]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 675F13A6828 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 09:54:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from BLU109-W51 ([65.55.162.182]) by blu0-omc1-s1.blu0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Fri, 22 Feb 2008 09:54:11 -0800 Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [168.12.253.66] From: CE Whitehead To: Addison Phillips Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 12:54:11 -0500 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <47BF0AB9.6050003@yahoo-inc.com> References: <47BF0AB9.6050003@yahoo-inc.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Feb 2008 17:54:11.0182 (UTC) FILETIME=[EDD7A8E0:01C8757B] Cc: ltru@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Ltru] RFC4646bis-11 Editorial Comments Only, Section 3.7 X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1243064571==" Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org --===============1243064571== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_4d71c4be-6259-41a3-be3a-c43a2eef969f_" --_4d71c4be-6259-41a3-be3a-c43a2eef969f_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 Addison, thanks, yes' I got that wording from the original; no problem so f= ar; but on page 40 it says:"The RFC MUST specify or include each of the f= ollowing: o The specification MUST be versioned, and each version of the= specification MUST be numbered, dated, and stable." =20 So again, is it the publication date of the original rfc? Or of the most r= ecent version? =20 That's what's not clear. Thanks. =20 --C. E. Whitehead cewcathar@hotmail.com > Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 09:47:37 -0800> From: addiso= n@yahoo-inc.com> To: cewcathar@hotmail.com> CC: ltru@ietf.org; randy_presuh= n@mindspring.com; duerst@it.aoyama.ac.jp> Subject: Re: RFC4646bis-11 Editor= ial Comments Only, Section 3.7> > CE Whitehead wrote:> > One more quick edi= torial comment for the draft:> > > > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/dr= aft-ietf-ltru-4646bis-11.txt > > > > (there's also of course an off-list qu= estion to Doug and Addison saying > > that it's not clear to me from the re= levant paragraphs in 3.1, 3.5, 5.1 > > exactly what subtags get registratio= n forms): > > > > page 40, section 3.7> > Bottom of page> > "'Added' contai= ns the date the RFC was published in the "full-date"> > format specified in= [RFC3339]."> > > > {COMMENT: Date originally published? Or this version? I= assume > > originally published, but . . . am unsure . . . }> > > > Sectio= n 3.7 concerns itself with the Extensions registry. Each extension > is def= ined by an RFC. The Added date in the Extensions registry reflects > the pu= blication date of the RFC defining the extension.> > I will edit the senten= ce to read:> > 'Added' contains the date the extension's RFC was publish= ed in> the "full-date" format specified in = . > For example: 2004-06-28 represents June 28, 2004, in the> Gregorian cal= endar.> > Regards,> > Addison> > -- > Addison Phillips> Globalization A= rchitect -- Yahoo! Inc.> Chair -- W3C Internationalization Core WG> > Inter= nationalization is an architecture.> It is not a feature.= --_4d71c4be-6259-41a3-be3a-c43a2eef969f_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable  
Addison, thanks, yes' I got that wording from the original; no problem so f= ar; but on page 40 it says:
"The RFC MUST specify or include each
&nb= sp;  of the following:


   o  The specificati= on MUST be versioned, and each version of the
    &n= bsp; specification MUST be numbered, dated, and stable."
 
So again, is it the publication date of the original rfc?  Or of the m= ost recent version?
 
That's what's not clear.
Thanks.
 
--C. E. Whitehead
cewcathar@hotmail.com
>= Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 09:47:37 -0800
> From: addison@yahoo-inc.com<= BR>> To: cewcathar@hotmail.com
> CC: ltru@ietf.org; randy_presuhn@= mindspring.com; duerst@it.aoyama.ac.jp
> Subject: Re: RFC4646bis-11 E= ditorial Comments Only, Section 3.7
>
> CE Whitehead wrote:> > One more quick editorial comment for the draft:
> > > > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ltru-4646bis-11.t= xt
> >
> > (there's also of course an off-list question= to Doug and Addison saying
> > that it's not clear to me from th= e relevant paragraphs in 3.1, 3.5, 5.1
> > exactly what subtags g= et registration forms):
> >
> > page 40, section 3.7> > Bottom of page
> > "'Added' contains the date the RFC w= as published in the "full-date"
> > format specified in [RFC3339].= "
> >
> > {COMMENT: Date originally published? Or this v= ersion? I assume
> > originally published, but . . . am unsure . = . . }
> >
>
> Section 3.7 concerns itself with the E= xtensions registry. Each extension
> is defined by an RFC. The Added= date in the Extensions registry reflects
> the publication date of = the RFC defining the extension.
>
> I will edit the sentence t= o read:
>
> <t>'Added' contains the date the extension's= RFC was published in
> the "full-date" format specified in <xref = target=3D"RFC3339"></xref>.
> For example: 2004-06-28 repre= sents June 28, 2004, in the
> Gregorian calendar.</t>
> <= BR>> Regards,
>
> Addison
>
> --
> Addi= son Phillips
> Globalization Architect -- Yahoo! Inc.
> Chair -= - W3C Internationalization Core WG
>
> Internationalization is= an architecture.
> It is not a feature.

= --_4d71c4be-6259-41a3-be3a-c43a2eef969f_-- --===============1243064571== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru --===============1243064571==-- From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Fri Feb 22 10:23:44 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE51F28C3FC; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 10:23:44 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.011 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.011 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.152, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, HTML_MESSAGE=1, J_CHICKENPOX_33=0.6, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xzFxZzqeE6kk; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 10:23:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AAB533A6CA7; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 10:23:43 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 516713A6B2D for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 10:23:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GvT4XZHDPE2C for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 10:23:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from blu139-omc2-s25.blu139.hotmail.com (blu139-omc2-s25.blu139.hotmail.com [65.55.175.195]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01A413A6CA7 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 10:23:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from BLU109-W46 ([65.55.162.185]) by blu139-omc2-s25.blu139.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Fri, 22 Feb 2008 10:23:34 -0800 Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [168.12.253.66] From: CE Whitehead To: Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 13:23:33 -0500 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <47BF1046.6090303@yahoo-inc.com> References: <30b660a20802151222o763fea90p843bb48c56169c7c@mail.gmail.com> <47BE458D.1000505@yahoo-inc.com> <47BF1046.6090303@yahoo-inc.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Feb 2008 18:23:34.0034 (UTC) FILETIME=[08958720:01C87580] Subject: Re: [Ltru] Editorial Comments Only--RFC4646bis-11 X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2114418514==" Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org --===============2114418514== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_0a56f12a-997a-4b79-95f5-5a4872673621_" --_0a56f12a-997a-4b79-95f5-5a4872673621_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 Hi all, Here are the strictly editorial edits I sent that I think really should go = in> From: addison@yahoo-inc.com> > Hi,> > Do not send me private email aski= ng for edits. Even my co-editor's > requests go to the list.> > Addison =20 Sorry, I know better. Here the requests are again, on the list (these are the most strictly impo= rtant of the editorial changes I suggested). =20 --C. E. Whitehead cewcathar@hotmail.com> > CE Whitehead wrote:> > Addison, thanks for going t= hrough these! The three changes I still want > > are at the top of this ema= il, numbered 1, 2, 3.> > > > 1. p.10, Section 2.2.2: "2.2.2. Extended Language Subtags"Extended language subtags are permanently= reserved. They MUST NOT be registered or used to form language tags (excep= t in grandfathered tags). They were originally created to allow for certain= kinds of compatibility mappings which ultimately were not used." > > >COMMENT: O.k., make it clear what ishappening to the grandfathered ta= gs! Otherwise I'm leftwondering.> > >> > >> > > Nothing, actually, is happe= ning to them that didn't already happen in> > > RFC 4646. It *might* have h= appened that some became redundant, but this> > > didn't turn out to be the= case.> > >> > > It might be useful, though, to indicate that grandfathered= tags that> > > match the extlang production don't change validity.> > >COM= MENT: O.k. thanks, that would be good if you could make it clear that they= do not change validity; but what is this extlang stuff? I thought we got = rid of that;=20 sorry to trouble you > > > >> > > > * * * p. 11, Section 2.2.4, Item 3.C:> > 2.> > > UN numeric codes for countrie= s or areas which are assigned ISO 3166> > > alpha2 codes already present in= the registry, MUST be defined according> > > to the rules in and MUST be used to form> > > language tags that repre= sent the country or region for which they are> > > defined. This happens wh= en ISO 3166 reassigns a code formerly used for> > > one country to another.= Insert >=3D "The numeric codes are thus used to avoid collisions." > > >> > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > COMMENT: That this was= done to avoid collisions was not clear> > > > from the draft, although it'= s been amply addressed in the ltru> > > > discussion; however it needs to b= e clarifiied in the draft.> > >> > >> > > I edited the last sentence to try= to clarify this thusly:> > >> > > --> > > This happens when ISO 3166 reass= igns a code already included in the> > > registry and formerly used for one= country to another.> >COMMENT: Addison, thanks, it's clearer this way!But I still think you've got to say = something about "avoiding collisions"> > > > * * *> > 3.> > Also one more m= inor change that to me seems important,> > > > {Page 35, Section 3.5, last = paragraph; CORRECT GRAMMAR in the last > > paragraph }> > "Registrations in= itiated due to the provisions of Section 3.3 or> > Section 3.4 SHALL NOT be= rejected altogether (since they have to> > ultimately appear in the regist= ry) and SHOULD be completed as quickly> > as possible. The review process a= llows list members to comment on> > the specific information in the form an= d the record it contains and> > thus help ensure that it is correct and con= sistent."> > =3D>> > > > "Registrations initiated due to the provisions of = Section 3.3 or> > Section 3.4 SHALL NOT be rejected altogether (since they = have to> > ultimately appear in the registry) and SHOULD be completed as qu= ickly> > as possible. The review process allows list members to comment on>= > the specific information in the form and the record it contains and> > t= hus help ensure that this information is correct and consistent."> > > > { = COMMENT change 'it,' as the antecedent is unclear }> > > > > > Thanks,> > >= > --C. E. Whitehead> > cewcathar@hotmail.com > > = --_0a56f12a-997a-4b79-95f5-5a4872673621_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable    
Hi all,
Here are the strictly editorial edits I sent that I think really shoul= d go in
> From: addison@yahoo-inc.com
>
> Hi,
> > Do not send me private email asking for edits. Even my co-editor's <= BR>> requests go to the list.
>
> Addison
 
Sorry, I know better.
Here the requests are again, on the list  (these are the most strictly= important of the editorial changes I suggested).
 
--C. E. Whitehead
cewcathar@hotmail.com
> =
> CE Whitehead wrote:
> > Addison, thanks for going through= these! The three changes I still want
> > are at the top of this= email, numbered 1, 2, 3.
> >
> > 1.
p.10, Section 2.2.2:
"2.2.2. Extended Language Subtags

"Extended language subtags are per= manently reserved. They MUST NOT be registered or used to form language tag= s (except in grandfathered tags). They were originally created to allow for= certain kinds of compatibility mappings which ultimately were not used."

 > > >
COMMENT: O.k., make it clear what is
happen= ing to the grandfathered tags! Otherwise I'm left
wondering.
> >= ; >
> > >
> > > Nothing, actually, is happening = to them that didn't already happen in
> > > RFC 4646. It *might= * have happened that some became redundant, but this
> > > didn= 't turn out to be the case.
> > >
> > > It might be= useful, though, to indicate that grandfathered tags that
> > >= match the extlang production don't change validity.
> > >
C= OMMENT:  O.k. thanks, that would be good if you could make it clear th= at they do not change validity; but what is this extlang stuff?  I tho= ught we got rid of that;
sorry to trouble you
> > > >
> >
> > * *= *
p. 11, Section 2.2.4, Item 3.C:
> > 2.
> > > <t>= UN numeric codes for countries or areas which are assigned ISO 3166
>= > > alpha2 codes already present in the registry, MUST be defined ac= cording
> > > to the rules in <xref target=3D"ianastability"= /> and MUST be used to form
> > > language tags that represe= nt the country or region for which they are
> > > defined. This= happens when ISO 3166 reassigns a code formerly used for
> > >= one country to another.</t>
Insert
>=3D "The numeric codes are thus used to avoid col= lisions."

> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > &g= t; >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >= ;
> > > > COMMENT: That this was done to avoid collisions wa= s not clear
> > > > from the draft, although it's been amply= addressed in the ltru
> > > > discussion; however it needs = to be clarifiied in the draft.
> > >
> > >
> = > > I edited the last sentence to try to clarify this thusly:
>= > >
> > > --
> > > This happens when ISO 316= 6 reassigns a code already included in the
> > > registry and f= ormerly used for one country to another.
> >
COMMENT:
Addison, thanks, it's clearer this way!
But I still think you've go= t to say something about "avoiding collisions"
> >
> > *= * *
> > 3.
> > Also one more minor change that to me see= ms important,
> >
> > {Page 35, Section 3.5, last paragr= aph; CORRECT GRAMMAR in the last
> > paragraph }
> > "Re= gistrations initiated due to the provisions of Section 3.3 or
> > = Section 3.4 SHALL NOT be rejected altogether (since they have to
> &g= t; ultimately appear in the registry) and SHOULD be completed as quickly> > as possible. The review process allows list members to comment o= n
> > the specific information in the form and the record it conta= ins and
> > thus help ensure that it is correct and consistent."> > =3D>
> >
> > "Registrations initiated due= to the provisions of Section 3.3 or
> > Section 3.4 SHALL NOT be = rejected altogether (since they have to
> > ultimately appear in t= he registry) and SHOULD be completed as quickly
> > as possible. T= he review process allows list members to comment on
> > the specif= ic information in the form and the record it contains and
> > thus= help ensure that this information is correct = and consistent."
> >

> > { COMMENT change 'it,' as t= he antecedent is unclear }
> >
> >
> > Thanks,=
> >
> > --C. E. Whitehead
> > cewcathar@hotmai= l.com <mailto:cewcathar@hotmail.com>     &nb= sp;     > >

= --_0a56f12a-997a-4b79-95f5-5a4872673621_-- --===============2114418514== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru --===============2114418514==-- From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Fri Feb 22 10:44:50 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DED6B3A6CD7; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 10:44:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.536 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.536 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.099, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id obptEG6iG2JL; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 10:44:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC8CD3A6C7C; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 10:44:48 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75BB63A6C6D for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 10:44:47 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id S7uX6QI2FjdF for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 10:44:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from elasmtp-scoter.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-scoter.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.67]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E1213A68DB for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 10:44:46 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=mindspring.com; b=DSukqjihNNMw0CWFduessOZcW/U7buYZ9kUY7Zgz+ODHAaxBWleUBn/trmyFG2PF; h=Received:Message-ID:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MIMEOLE:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [66.167.202.77] (helo=oemcomputer) by elasmtp-scoter.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1JSct0-0000m5-0a for ltru@ietf.org; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 13:44:42 -0500 Message-ID: <002201c87583$209ec220$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> From: "Randy Presuhn" To: "LTRU Working Group" References: <47B28753.5090406@yahoo-inc.com> <30b660a20802130859n7cb1c324v31dac9b1473e7aa3@mail.gmail.com> <009901c86e7e$8a1f4960$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> <47BE36A0.4080209@yahoo-inc.com> <20080222041853.GB21605@mercury.ccil.org> <47BE58D4.2070609@yahoo-inc.com> Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 10:45:41 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-ELNK-Trace: 4488c18417c9426da92b9037bc8bcf44d4c20f6b8d69d8885d2a9c731cc89117ea5d8cd514f35c911f7886a0a86faa84350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 66.167.202.77 Subject: Re: [Ltru] folding boundaries X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Hi - As co-chair... >From the recent postings, it seems like we've converged on a consensus with respect to this item, recognizing that while the definition of folding isn't "perfect", it is adequate for the purpose of maintaining human-readable text in the registry. So, I'm going to mark this one "resolved." Randy _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Fri Feb 22 11:09:28 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F16B13A6C10; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 11:09:28 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.542 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.542 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.105, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PH54xe0dU0NL; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 11:09:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 393023A68DF; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 11:09:28 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B77883A6ACD for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 11:09:27 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xxXiZZ5Jb7EZ for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 11:09:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.63]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB0AD3A68DF for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 11:09:26 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=mindspring.com; b=hUDj2XEDT0YXI4goiEUFeR2WvOaMKVquHKZKmGPJZuoB9lIa3mluglcRW+U8qRKm; h=Received:Message-ID:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MIMEOLE:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [66.167.202.77] (helo=oemcomputer) by elasmtp-junco.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1JSdGr-0006z5-Ap for ltru@ietf.org; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 14:09:22 -0500 Message-ID: <02d801c87586$92cf8480$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> From: "Randy Presuhn" To: "LTRU Working Group" References: <00f501c87176$7fec95b0$0a00a8c0@CPQ86763045110><008501c871d6$7ea769e0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer><30b660a20802180734m55e7d7acg7c89f8ea30455d1b@mail.gmail.com><05e201c8746f$21474590$0a00a8c0@CPQ86763045110><47BE3AB4.2010906@yahoo-inc.com><30b660a20802211911s14836ee6tb6b82183b363fdb7@mail.gmail.com> <5b0cbc7c0802220529l54fde2e5ic522a99e6bb37a97@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 11:10:22 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-ELNK-Trace: 4488c18417c9426da92b9037bc8bcf44d4c20f6b8d69d8885d2a9c731cc89117d15afe782ee6207739b5fa18db12f2d6350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 66.167.202.77 Subject: Re: [Ltru] Language Subtag Reviewer X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Hi - As co-chair.... It looks like there is *not* a rough consensus in support of this proposed change. I'm putting this one in my "resolved, no change" basket. Randy _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Fri Feb 22 11:13:08 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE3C228C480; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 11:13:08 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.547 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.547 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.110, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tFp3cjUIWpK4; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 11:13:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59CD028C448; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 11:13:05 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49CD328C199 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 11:13:04 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZGh9adyrBZpM for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 11:13:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.68]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 263913A6D0F for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 11:12:59 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=mindspring.com; b=rRjdzO6EsxChi1r9r5rJ4n/73s5vjdFhGoWFBdm0P1nwZjLyEwvPWGJ/ttLbH/em; h=Received:Message-ID:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MIMEOLE:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [66.167.202.77] (helo=oemcomputer) by elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1JSdKI-0005P8-JG for ltru@ietf.org; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 14:12:54 -0500 Message-ID: <02e801c87587$123a3b20$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> From: "Randy Presuhn" To: "LTRU Working Group" References: <5b0cbc7c0802191730x11640adao46edcc2da998b527@mail.gmail.com> <002601c87365$c9220440$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> <5b0cbc7c0802192330n4289442do32c9a32bd4a4e7e@mail.gmail.com> <5b0cbc7c0802192343v31ebf6b1j49cb8b53583ad507@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 11:13:55 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-ELNK-Trace: 4488c18417c9426da92b9037bc8bcf44d4c20f6b8d69d8885d2a9c731cc89117fd231abf071ba8921c0fda4028e6b372350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 66.167.202.77 Subject: Re: [Ltru] should LSRs cooperate ? X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Hi - As co-chair... Since I have not seen any support for this proposal, I'm marking it "resolved, no change". Randy _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Fri Feb 22 11:22:42 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60DDD28CBC9; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 11:22:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.249 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.249 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.412, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, J_CHICKENPOX_23=0.6, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eXySCaMLlyqj; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 11:22:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4ED303A6CE0; 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h=Received:Message-ID:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MIMEOLE:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [66.167.202.77] (helo=oemcomputer) by elasmtp-curtail.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1JSdPC-0005T5-Fj for ltru@ietf.org; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 14:17:58 -0500 Message-ID: <02f501c87587$c74546e0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> From: "Randy Presuhn" To: "LTRU Working Group" References: <20080109014618.0C46D25971E@eikenes.alvestrand.no> <000501c85287$97e9e590$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> <20080109063453.GB9253@mercury.ccil.org> <001001c852cf$4f219d10$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> <30b660a20801091029p3fe7db28tfa787f0c4f399bc8@mail.gmail.com><6.0.0.20.2.20080110163909.0aabc5f0@localhost> <47BE39EB.6030401@yahoo-inc.com> Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 11:18:59 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-ELNK-Trace: 4488c18417c9426da92b9037bc8bcf44d4c20f6b8d69d8885d2a9c731cc891174517e5ffb7a896f9205620cc45150970350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 66.167.202.77 Subject: Re: [Ltru] Fwd: Addition request: alsatian X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org SGkgLQoKQXMgY28tY2hhaXIuLi4KClVubGVzcyB0aGVyZSBhcmUgb2JqZWN0aW9ucywgSSdsbCBw dXQgdGhpcyBpbiB0aGUKInJlc29sdmVkLCBlZGl0b3JpYWwiIGJhc2tldC4KClJhbmR5Cgo+IEZy b206ICJBZGRpc29uIFBoaWxsaXBzIiA8YWRkaXNvbkB5YWhvby1pbmMuY29tPgo+IFRvOiAiTWFy dGluIER1ZXJzdCIgPGR1ZXJzdEBpdC5hb3lhbWEuYWMuanA+Cj4gQ2M6ICJMVFJVIFdvcmtpbmcg R3JvdXAiIDxsdHJ1QGlldGYub3JnPgo+IFNlbnQ6IFRodXJzZGF5LCBGZWJydWFyeSAyMSwgMjAw 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aW9uIENvcmUgV0cKPgo+IEludGVybmF0aW9uYWxpemF0aW9uIGlzIGFuIGFyY2hpdGVjdHVyZS4K PiBJdCBpcyBub3QgYSBmZWF0dXJlLgo+IF9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fCj4gTHRydSBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QKPiBMdHJ1QGlldGYub3JnCj4gaHR0 cDovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL2x0cnUKPgoKCl9fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fCkx0cnUgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0Ckx0cnVA aWV0Zi5vcmcKaHR0cDovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL2x0cnUK From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Fri Feb 22 11:25:42 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F03328C3AB; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 11:25:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.76 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.76 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.323, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZAM9j1uY9LMl; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 11:25:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F50228C697; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 11:25:23 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9B3F28C3AB for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 11:25:21 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fkPsPUI9+7W5 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 11:25:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from rsmtp1.corp.yahoo.com (rsmtp1.corp.yahoo.com [207.126.228.149]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 236EE28CBFB for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 11:23:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.72.77.39] (snvvpn2-10-72-77-c39.corp.yahoo.com [10.72.77.39]) by rsmtp1.corp.yahoo.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/y.rout) with ESMTP id m1MJNfOB024889; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 11:23:41 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; s=serpent; d=yahoo-inc.com; c=nofws; q=dns; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject: references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=ULOE9AjOrmptaqo/DWer1ppRJlZ45gV9rLm8hi6EBvHwgMTyDGenFEPwdAbnFONw Message-ID: <47BF213C.6090304@yahoo-inc.com> Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 11:23:40 -0800 From: Addison Phillips User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: CE Whitehead References: <30b660a20802151222o763fea90p843bb48c56169c7c@mail.gmail.com> <47BE458D.1000505@yahoo-inc.com> <47BF1046.6090303@yahoo-inc.com> In-Reply-To: Cc: ltru@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Ltru] Editorial Comments Only--RFC4646bis-11 X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org CE Whitehead wrote: > > Hi all, > Here are the strictly editorial edits I sent that I think really should > go in Thanks. > > > 1. > p.10, Section 2.2.2: > "2.2.2. Extended Language Subtags > > "Extended language subtags are permanently reserved. They MUST NOT be > registered or used to form language tags (except in grandfathered tags). > They were originally created to allow for certain kinds of compatibility > mappings which ultimately were not used." > > > > > > COMMENT: O.k., make it clear what is > happening to the grandfathered tags! Otherwise I'm left > wondering. I'm not sure that grandfathered tags belong here. Look: you only know that this affects (or, rather, fails to affect) certain grandfathered tags because you are participating here. Extended language subtags have nothing to do with grandfathering. Note that this paragraph has been edited and is in a different form in draft-12 (the editor's copy). > > > > > > > > > > > > Nothing, actually, is happening to them that didn't already happen in > > > > RFC 4646. It *might* have happened that some became redundant, > but this > > > > didn't turn out to be the case. > > > > > > > > It might be useful, though, to indicate that grandfathered tags that > > > > match the extlang production don't change validity. > > > > > COMMENT: O.k. thanks, that would be good if you could make it clear > that they do not change validity; but what is this extlang stuff? Would this work: Note: a few grandfathered tags () matched the 'extlang' production in RFC 4646, and thus were not considered 'irregular'. These tags are still valid and were added to the 'irregular' production in the ABNF. > I > thought we got rid of that; > sorry to trouble you We removed a production that appeared in RFC 4646 in drafting this document. Please read the full paragraph we have in draft-12 and see if it doesn't convey that. > > > > > COMMENT: That this was done to avoid collisions was not clear > > > > > from the draft, although it's been amply addressed in the ltru > > > > > discussion; however it needs to be clarifiied in the draft. > > > > > > > > > > > > I edited the last sentence to try to clarify this thusly: > > > > > > > > -- > > > > This happens when ISO 3166 reassigns a code already included in the > > > > registry and formerly used for one country to another. > > > > COMMENT: > Addison, thanks, it's clearer this way! > But I still think you've got to say something about "avoiding collisions" We do, but adding lots and lots of text redundant with other text elsewhere in the document makes our overly-long draft even longer. The full paragraph has an explicit link to section 3.4 where this is explained in great detail. > > > > > > * * * > > > 3. > > > Also one more minor change that to me seems important, > > > > > > {Page 35, Section 3.5, last paragraph; CORRECT GRAMMAR in the last > > > paragraph } > > > "Registrations initiated due to the provisions of Section 3.3 or > > > Section 3.4 SHALL NOT be rejected altogether (since they have to > > > ultimately appear in the registry) and SHOULD be completed as quickly > > > as possible. The review process allows list members to comment on > > > the specific information in the form and the record it contains and > > > thus help ensure that it is correct and consistent." > > > => > > > > > > "Registrations initiated due to the provisions of Section 3.3 or > > > Section 3.4 SHALL NOT be rejected altogether (since they have to > > > ultimately appear in the registry) and SHOULD be completed as quickly > > > as possible. The review process allows list members to comment on > > > the specific information in the form and the record it contains and > > > thus help ensure that this information is correct and consistent." > > > > > > > { COMMENT change 'it,' as the antecedent is unclear } Really, it is clear enough. Addison -- Addison Phillips Globalization Architect -- Yahoo! Inc. Chair -- W3C Internationalization Core WG Internationalization is an architecture. It is not a feature. _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Fri Feb 22 11:28:25 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EED143A681E; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 11:28:25 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.546 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.546 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.109, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LvD6BlRJWXpp; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 11:28:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A080B28C448; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 11:28:22 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7ECE33A68AA for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 11:28:20 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DVKAdWq1rowG for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 11:28:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.66]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28C913A6CD4 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 11:27:00 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=mindspring.com; b=SKaLIQyb9B4YwAK12J5nRXyfIzC/FEP1s2aWq4h8eZgQ0W0MhaHITG9ITQX8ofib; h=Received:Message-ID:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MIMEOLE:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [66.167.202.77] (helo=oemcomputer) by elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1JSdXr-0002MH-OL for ltru@ietf.org; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 14:26:56 -0500 Message-ID: <031301c87589$0772ea00$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> From: "Randy Presuhn" To: References: <47BF0AB9.6050003@yahoo-inc.com> Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 11:27:56 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-ELNK-Trace: 4488c18417c9426da92b9037bc8bcf44d4c20f6b8d69d8885d2a9c731cc8911757ec8bf42683e0aee5e5fc43c5ee5b1a350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 66.167.202.77 Subject: Re: [Ltru] RFC4646bis-11 Editorial Comments Only, Section 3.7 X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Hi - As a technical contributor... > From: "CE Whitehead" > To: "Addison Phillips" > Cc: ; ; > Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 9:54 AM > Subject: RE: RFC4646bis-11 Editorial Comments Only, Section 3.7 ... > So again, is it the publication date of the original rfc? Or of the most recent version? ... An RFC is only published once. It has only one date. If another "version" is published, it gets a new RFC number. Randy _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Fri Feb 22 11:30:43 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C33228C602; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 11:30:43 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.701 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.701 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.138, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, HTML_MESSAGE=1, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tfJyGTwWrlrF; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 11:30:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DA503A6CF6; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 11:30:42 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1CD33A6D17 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 11:30:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vh6zfqg1aSfs for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 11:30:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from blu139-omc2-s8.blu139.hotmail.com (blu139-omc2-s8.blu139.hotmail.com [65.55.175.178]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9DA23A68AA for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 11:30:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from BLU109-W56 ([65.55.162.186]) by blu139-omc2-s8.blu139.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Fri, 22 Feb 2008 11:30:34 -0800 Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [168.12.253.66] From: CE Whitehead To: Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 14:30:34 -0500 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <02a501c87585$66abe2a0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> References: <009401c8755e$82f50350$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> <47BF0454.4030502@yahoo-inc.com> <47BF09CF.30603@yahoo-inc.com> <02a501c87585$66abe2a0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Feb 2008 19:30:34.0905 (UTC) FILETIME=[6535C090:01C87589] Subject: [Ltru] Registration Forms; have we made it clear which are archived (mostly editorial comments) WAS: Regist X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2145413708==" Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org --===============2145413708== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_30627093-23bf-455e-bab2-798ad85822fb_" --_30627093-23bf-455e-bab2-798ad85822fb_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all,> From: randy_presuhn@mindspring.com> Hi -> > As co-chair:> > PLEAS= E MOVE THIS DISCUSSION TO THE WG MAILING LIST.> > Randy =20 Randy, per your request, I have excerpted here (I hope) the essential discu= ssion about registration forms (I feel like I'm overwhelming the list with = editorial comments; sorry). =20 --C. E. Whitehead cewcathar@hotmail.com=20 =20 > > CE Whitehead wrote:> > >> > >> > > Doug, the only real sections that tr= eat what records get registration> > > forms are a paragraph each basically= in 3.1, 3.5, 5.1: Can we either add, > > > at the end of 3.1?:> > > "Other subtags will have registration forms = on file."> > >> > > and/or modify the first sentence in 5.1 to say, (assuming that I understand things correctly):> > > " IANA will also archiv= e and make publicly available from> > > "http://www.iana.org/assignments/la= ng-subtags-templates/" each> > > registration form for all subtags not crea= ted by [RFC4645] or> > > [registry-update]." ??=20 From: Addison Phillips (addison@yahoo-inc.com) =20 > Forms sent to IANA get archived (i.e. actual registrations... failed > re= gistrations disappear).> Addison =20 We might add a comment to this effect too, to either 3.1 or 5.1: =20 "Forms for failed registrations are not archived." =20 From: Addison Phillips (addison@yahoo-inc.com) =20 > Clearly most updates sent to IANA begin with a filled in registration> > = form on the ietf-languages list, even for ISO actions.> >> > 3. I agree wit= h Doug that the 7200 new subtags will not have> > registration forms.> > No subtags created by [RFC4645] or [registry-update] will have registration= forms created, apparently according to 3.1. (below):> > > > > "3.1 > > > The existing registration forms for> > > grandfathered and= redundant tags taken from RFC 3066 will be> > > maintained as part of the = obsolete RFC 3066 registry. The remaining> > > set of subtags created by ei= ther [RFC4645] or [registry-update] will> > > not have registration forms c= reated for them." --CEW= --_30627093-23bf-455e-bab2-798ad85822fb_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, all,

> From: = randy_presuhn@mindspring.com
> Hi -
>
> As co-chair:=
>
> PLEASE MOVE THIS DISCUSSION TO THE WG MAILING LIST.
&g= t;
> Randy
 
Randy, per your request, I have excerpted here (I hope) the essential discu= ssion about registration forms (I feel like I'm overwhelming the list with = editorial comments; sorry).
 
--C. E. Whitehead
cewcathar@hotmail.com

 
> > CE Whitehead wrote:
> > >
> > >
> &= gt; > Doug, the only real sections that treat what records get registrat= ion
> > > forms are a paragraph each basically in 3.1, 3.5, 5.1= :
Can we either add,
> > > at the end of 3.1?:
> > > "Other subtags will have registration forms on file."
> > &= gt;
> > > and/or modify the first sentence in 5.1 to say,
(assuming that I understand things correctly):
> > > " IANA will also archive and make publicly available from
&g= t; > > "http://www.iana.org/assignments/lang-subtags-templates/" each=
> > > registration form for all subtags not created by [RFC464= 5] or
> > > [registry-update]."
?? 
From: Addison Phillips (addison@yahoo-inc.com)
 
> Forms sent to IANA get archived (i.e. actual registrations... failed <= BR>> registrations disappear).

> Addison
 
We might add a comment to this effect too, to either 3.1 or 5.1:
 
"Forms for failed registrations are not archived."
 
From: Addison Phillips (addison@yahoo-inc.com)
 
> Clearly most updates sent to IANA begin with a filled in registration<= BR>> > form on the ietf-languages list, even for ISO actions.
>= >
> > 3. I agree with Doug that the 7200 new subtags will not = have
> > registration forms.
> >
No subtags created by [RFC4645] or [registry-update] will have registration= forms created, apparently according to 3.1. (below):
> >
> > > "3.1
> > > The existing registration forms for<= BR>> > > grandfathered and redundant tags taken from RFC 3066 will= be
> > > maintained as part of the obsolete RFC 3066 registry.= The remaining
> > > set of subtags created by either [RFC4645]= or [registry-update] will
> > > not have registration forms cr= eated for them."


--CEW
= --_30627093-23bf-455e-bab2-798ad85822fb_-- --===============2145413708== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru --===============2145413708==-- From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Fri Feb 22 13:00:21 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6531A3A6BFF; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 13:00:21 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.753 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.753 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.316, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id k7VzkZ0qObMO; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 13:00:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 854DF3A6B55; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 13:00:20 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7839A3A69D7 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 13:00:19 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YK4dEjL+UCBT for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 13:00:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from rsmtp2.corp.yahoo.com (rsmtp2.corp.yahoo.com [207.126.228.150]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1937D3A6B55 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 13:00:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from [172.21.37.80] (duringperson-lx.corp.yahoo.com [172.21.37.80]) by rsmtp2.corp.yahoo.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/y.rout) with ESMTP id m1ML01q1098620; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 13:00:01 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; s=serpent; d=yahoo-inc.com; c=nofws; q=dns; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject: references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=FKMUitvixfvzc2m0NQo+LplARd7+lJE6ThuMoo0MohEmzQatF1/7d/TvEIBFl1nL Message-ID: <47BF37D1.3070303@yahoo-inc.com> Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 13:00:01 -0800 From: Addison Phillips User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: CE Whitehead References: <009401c8755e$82f50350$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> <47BF0454.4030502@yahoo-inc.com> <47BF09CF.30603@yahoo-inc.com> <02a501c87585$66abe2a0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> In-Reply-To: Cc: ltru@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Ltru] Registration Forms; have we made it clear which are archived (mostly editorial comments) WAS: Regist X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org CE Whitehead wrote: > > > Forms sent to IANA get archived (i.e. actual registrations... failed > > registrations disappear). > > > Addison > > We might add a comment to this effect too, to either 3.1 or 5.1: > > "Forms for failed registrations are not archived." I'm not opposed to adding this. > > From: *Addison Phillips* (addison@yahoo-inc.com) > > > Clearly most updates sent to IANA begin with a filled in registration > > > form on the ietf-languages list, even for ISO actions. I think this quote from an email I sent to CEW isn't clear. The question was whether ISO 639/3166/15924 actions result in registration forms that are archived. It is my opinion, expressed in the quote above and based on text in RFC 4646 (and still preserved in our I-D) that the proper process has these features: - submission, typically by the LSR, of a registration form for insertion or update of subtags based on ISO actions to the ietf-languages list. This form later forms the submission to IANA registering the change - that from IANA's point of view there is no difference between an ISO-instigated change and any other type of change to the registry; thus the registration forms must be archived for non-RFC-based registrations - "registrations" committed by RFC 4645 or draft-4645bis are a special case for which no forms are created or archived. This is covered in all four relevant RFCs/I-Ds: 4645 4646 4645bis and 4646bis. I don't think any changes to the I-D are being proposed here; I don't think any changes are warranted; and I think that the existing process (as described, but not always practiced very rigorously) is a Good Thing. Addison -- Addison Phillips Globalization Architect -- Yahoo! Inc. Chair -- W3C Internationalization Core WG Internationalization is an architecture. It is not a feature. _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Sat Feb 23 10:42:53 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB60D3A6B97; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 10:42:53 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.282 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.282 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.481, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, HTML_MESSAGE=1, J_CHICKENPOX_44=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_71=0.6, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id f1-phnXNe+0W; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 10:42:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD0D73A6AAE; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 10:42:52 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 646D43A6B0B for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 10:42:51 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Wl9Mksf0DEkn for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 10:42:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from blu139-omc2-s13.blu139.hotmail.com (blu139-omc2-s13.blu139.hotmail.com [65.55.175.183]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 562733A6874 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 10:42:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from BLU109-W22 ([65.55.162.185]) by blu139-omc2-s13.blu139.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Sat, 23 Feb 2008 10:42:45 -0800 Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [168.12.253.66] From: CE Whitehead To: Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 13:42:45 -0500 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <47BF37D1.3070303@yahoo-inc.com> References: <009401c8755e$82f50350$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> <47BF0454.4030502@yahoo-inc.com> <47BF09CF.30603@yahoo-inc.com> <02a501c87585$66abe2a0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> <47BF37D1.3070303@yahoo-inc.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Feb 2008 18:42:45.0644 (UTC) FILETIME=[E16904C0:01C8764B] Subject: Re: [Ltru] Registration Forms; have we made it clear which are archived (mostly editorial comments) X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2047096570==" Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org --===============2047096570== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_233ad5af-bedd-4753-8465-7dea560ecc80_" --_233ad5af-bedd-4753-8465-7dea560ecc80_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Addison, thanks; your reply was very helpful and makes what happens to the = archiving of registration forms much clearer;I'd like to see the following = change to the draft, section 3.1, > > > "3.1 > > > . . . The remaining> > >= set of subtags created by either [RFC4645] or [registry-update] will> > > = not have registration forms created for them.">=3D "The remainingset of sub= tags created by either [RFC4645] or [registry-update] willnot have registra= tion forms created for them."All other registration forms are archived; exc= ept the forms created for failed registrations, which are not archived." If= the above is not acceptable to you, then at least insert the following (wh= ich you've said you are not opposed to inserting) at the bottom of 3.1,>=3D= Forms created for failed registrations are not archived." { COMMENT: I did= a search through all sections of the bis-11 draft ( http://www.ietf.org/in= ternet-drafts/draft-ietf-ltru-4646bis-11.txt ; sorry, the bis-12 draft was = not available on my server today; I do not know where it is), and could fin= d no comments regarding the archiving of failed registration forms. ALSO:wh= at you have explained below, specifically that, > - "from IANA's point of v= iew there is no difference between an > ISO-instigated change and any other= type of change to the registry; thus > the registration forms must be arch= ived for non-RFC-based registrations> > - "registrations" committed by RFC = 4645 or draft-4645bis are a special > case for which no forms are created o= r archived." was not clear at all (to me) from the draft. } Thanks, all, an= dsorry to keep hammering at this. --C. E. Whiteheadcewcathar@hotmail.com = * * * = --_233ad5af-bedd-4753-8465-7dea560ecc80_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi,
Addison, thanks; your reply was very helpful and makes what happe= ns to the archiving of registration forms much clearer;
I'd like to= see the following change to the draft, section 3.1,
 
> >= > "3.1
> > > . . . The remaining
> > > set of = subtags created by either [RFC4645] or [registry-update] will
> > = > not have registration forms created for them."

>=3D
 = ;
"The remaining
set of s= ubtags created by either [RFC4645] or [registry-update] will
not have re= gistration forms created for them."
All other registration forms = are archived; except the forms created for failed registrations, = which are not archived."
 =
If the above is not acceptable to you, then at le= ast insert the following (which you've said you are not opposed to ins= erting) at the bottom of 3.1,
>=3D
Forms created fo= r failed registrations are not archived."
 
{ COMMENT:  I did a search through all sections of the= bis-11 draft ( http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ltru-464= 6bis-11.txt ; sorry, the bis-12 draft was not available on my serv= er today; I do not know where it is), and could find no comments regarding = the archiving of failed registration forms.
 
ALSO:
what you have explained below, specifically that,
 
&g= t; - "from IANA's point of view there is no difference between an
> = ISO-instigated change and any other type of change to the registry; thus > the registration forms must be archived for non-RFC-based registrati= ons
>
> - "registrations" committed by RFC 4645 or draft-4645b= is are a special
> case for which no forms are created or archived."=
 
was not clear at all (to me) from the d= raft.
 
}
 
Thanks, all, and
sorry to keep = hammering at this.
 
--C. E. Whitehead
cewcathar@hotmail.com
 

 
 * * *


 

= --_233ad5af-bedd-4753-8465-7dea560ecc80_-- --===============2047096570== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru --===============2047096570==-- From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Sat Feb 23 12:01:41 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C56363A6C42; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 12:01:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.397 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.397 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.040, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DZRw9fLQV5zF; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 12:01:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08D5928C3BD; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 12:01:25 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90ED128C2F7 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 12:01:23 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PfoEvy-gzCw2 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 12:01:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from mta15.adelphia.net (mta15.adelphia.net [68.168.78.77]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CA2C3A6BA8 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 12:01:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from DGBP7M81 ([76.167.184.182]) by mta15.adelphia.net (InterMail vM.6.01.05.04 201-2131-123-105-20051025) with SMTP id <20080223200057.FKGB4595.mta15.adelphia.net@DGBP7M81> for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 15:00:57 -0500 Message-ID: <004301c87656$ce7a0f70$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> From: "Doug Ewell" To: "LTRU Working Group" References: Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 12:00:57 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 Subject: Re: [Ltru] Proposed edits (davis) X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; 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Sat, 23 Feb 2008 12:12:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from wx-out-0506.google.com (wx-out-0506.google.com [66.249.82.231]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD4D63A6925 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 12:12:09 -0800 (PST) Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id s8so852357wxc.31 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 12:12:04 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references:x-google-sender-auth; bh=qE0sKOAKWVj98xz0ukVxngoSbAzcw9+qg7spAoEgamY=; b=Sg79/qcnaWCaD7WSQUrXmrJWTBqBifU5sV4b/adXzHU3BYUOlibAjbKuItMiupP0oftw/c2GH4+ZPMQXl7pjwJh6Urvuu8pQf5ji+qfuLp3za9RPxXr7GwMfslGz22mSiyKtomo0I8lReeSP/i+kYoauyiPQH+wDYGGva4WVt08= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references:x-google-sender-auth; b=H4VIeHelERbOhMfZwbsB0wrNq3xxzywkdPpkybzpUBpDap9VI2MJ/lAjus+h3eppk+ohSN5Q/uUf5F1ujl1q/19E+2les37u0Iazq72V0xJpd401CpJjVGyEmLbg01OY9tSdxJxr/Cu2neoXG5lvg3bPVvSHnwgz5EdfpRrUSvY= Received: by 10.115.79.1 with SMTP id g1mr977406wal.43.1203797523843; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 12:12:03 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.114.193.3 with HTTP; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 12:12:03 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <30b660a20802231212h2a0184b4q5d25f0d4aacc2512@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 12:12:03 -0800 From: "Mark Davis" To: "Doug Ewell" In-Reply-To: <004301c87656$ce7a0f70$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline References: <004301c87656$ce7a0f70$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 83a57889828a74b3 Cc: LTRU Working Group Subject: Re: [Ltru] Proposed edits (davis) X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org QWRkaXNvbidzIGxhbmd1YWdlIGlzIG9rLCBidXQgSSdkIHJhdGhlciBiZSBhIGJpdCBtb3JlIGZv Y3VzZWQuIFNvIEkKc3VnZ2VzdCBhIHNsaWdodCBhbWVuZGF0aW9uOgoKVGhlIHByaW1hcnkgcmVh c29uIGZvciBjb21tZW50cyBhcmUgZm9yIHN1YnRhZyBpZGVudGlmaWNhdGlvbjogdG8gaGVscApk aXN0aW5ndWlzaCB0aGUgc3VidGFnIGZyb20gb3RoZXJzIHdpdGggd2hpY2ggaXQgbWlnaHQgYmUg Y29uZnVzZWQuIEluCnBhcnRpY3VsYXIsCmxhcmdlIGFtb3VudHMgb2YgaW5mb3JtYXRpb24gYWJv dXQgdGhlIHVzZSwgaGlzdG9yeSwgb3IgZ2VuZXJhbApiYWNrZ3JvdW5kIG9mIGEgc3VidGFnIGFy ZSBmcm93bmVkIHVwb246IHRoZXNlIGdlbmVyYWxseSBiZWxvbmcgYW5kCmFyZSBlbmNvdXJhZ2Vk IGluIHJlZ2lzdHJhdGlvbiByZXF1ZXN0cywgYnV0IGRvIG5vdCBiZWxvbmcgaW4gdGhlCnJlZ2lz dHJ5IHJlY29yZCBwcm9wZXIuCgpPbiBTYXQsIEZlYiAyMywgMjAwOCBhdCAxMjowMCBQTSwgRG91 ZyBFd2VsbCA8ZGV3ZWxsQHJvYWRydW5uZXIuY29tPiB3cm90ZToKPiBBZGRpc29uIFBoaWxsaXBz IDxhZGRpc29uIGF0IHlhaG9vIGRhc2ggaW5jIGRvdCBjb20+IHdyb3RlOgo+Cj4gID4+IEkgdGhp bmsgdGhlIGlzc3VlIHdhcyB0byBoYXZlIGEgY2xlYXIgc3RhdGVtZW50IHRoYXQgd2UgZG9uJ3Qg d2FudAo+ICA+PiB0b25zIG9mIHRleHQgaW4gdGhlIHJlZ2lzdHJ5IC0tIGZvciB0aGF0LCBwZW9w bGUgc2hvdWxkIGxvb2sgYXQgb3RoZXIKPiAgPj4gc291cmNlcy4gQ2FuIHlvdSB0aGluayBvZiBh biBhbHRlcm5hdGl2ZT8KPiAgPgo+ICA+IEluIFJGQyA0NjQ2IChkdXJpbmcgb25lIG9mIHRoZSBk cmFmdHMpIHdlIHJlbW92ZWQgdGhlIHdhcm5pbmc6Cj4gID4KPiAgPiAtLQo+ICA+IExvbmcgc2Ny ZWVkcyBhYm91dCBhIHBhcnRpY3VsYXIgc3VidGFnIGFyZSBmcm93bmVkIHVwb24uCj4gID4gLS0K PiAgPgo+ICA+IEl0IHdhcyBmZWx0IHRoYXQgdGhlIHdvcmQgInNjcmVlZCIgd2FzIGJvdGggdG9v IG9ic2N1cmUgYW5kIHRvbwo+ICA+IGp1ZGdtZW50YWwuIFBlcnNvbmFsbHksIEkgdGhvdWdodCBp dCBkaWQgdGhlIGpvYi4gUGVyaGFwczoKPiAgPgo+ICA+IC0tCj4gID4gTGFyZ2UgYW1vdW50cyBv ZiBpbmZvcm1hdGlvbiBhYm91dCB0aGUgdXNlLCBoaXN0b3J5LCBvciBnZW5lcmFsCj4gID4gYmFj a2dyb3VuZCBvZiBhIHN1YnRhZyBhcmUgZnJvd25lZCB1cG9uOiB0aGVzZSBnZW5lcmFsbHkgYmVs b25nIGFuZAo+ICA+IGFyZSBlbmNvdXJhZ2VkIGluIHJlZ2lzdHJhdGlvbiByZXF1ZXN0cywgYnV0 IGRvIG5vdCBiZWxvbmcgaW4gdGhlCj4gID4gcmVnaXN0cnkgcmVjb3JkIHByb3Blci4KPiAgPiAt LQo+Cj4gIE5vdCBvbmx5IHRoYXQsIHRoZXkgaW1wbGljaXRseSBlbmNvdXJhZ2UgdGhlIHN1Ym1p dHRlciB0byBhZGQgZWRpdG9yaWFsCj4gIHRleHQganVzdGlmeWluZyB0aGUgc3VidGFnIG9yIHZh cmlhdGlvbi4gIGlldGYtbGFuZ3VhZ2VzIHBhcnRpY2lwYW50cwo+ICBtYXkgcmVtZW1iZXIgdGhl IHByb2Nlc3Mgc3Vycm91bmRpbmcgdGhlICd0YXJhc2snIHZhcmlhbnQsIGluIHdoaWNoCj4gIG9w cG9zaW5nIGZhY3Rpb25zIGFyZ3VlZCBhYm91dCB0aGUgbGVnaXRpbWFjeSBvZiB0aGUgb3J0aG9n cmFwaHkgaXRzZWxmLgo+ICBBbnkgYWRkaXRpb25hbCBDb21tZW50cyB0ZXh0IHN1cmVseSB3b3Vs ZCBoYXZlIHJlZmxlY3RlZCB0aGlzLCBhbmQgd291bGQKPiAgaGF2ZSBiZWVuIG91dCBvZiBwbGFj ZSBpbiB0aGUgUmVnaXN0cnkuCj4KPiAgSSBzdXBwb3J0IHNvbWUgc29ydCBvZiB3b3JkaW5nIHRo YXQgZW5jb3VyYWdlcyB0aGUgbGltaXRhdGlvbiBvZgo+ICBjb21tZW50cyB0byB3aGF0IGlzIG5l Y2Vzc2FyeSB0byBoZWxwIHVzZXJzIGNvcnJlY3RseSBpZGVudGlmeSB0aGUKPiAgYXBwcm9wcmlh dGUgc3VidGFnLiAgQWRkaXNvbidzIHRleHQsIGFib3ZlLCBkb2VzIHRoYXQgZm9yIG1lLgo+Cj4g IC0tCj4gIERvdWcgRXdlbGwgICogIEZ1bGxlcnRvbiwgQ2FsaWZvcm5pYSwgVVNBICAqICBSRkMg NDY0NSAgKiAgVVROICMxNAo+ICBodHRwOi8vd3d3LmV3ZWxsaWMub3JnCj4gIGh0dHA6Ly93d3cx LmlldGYub3JnL2h0bWwuY2hhcnRlcnMvbHRydS1jaGFydGVyLmh0bWwKPiAgaHR0cDovL3d3dy5h bHZlc3RyYW5kLm5vL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vaWV0Zi1sYW5ndWFnZXMgIMuGCj4KPiAgX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18KPiAgTHRydSBtYWls aW5nIGxpc3QKPiAgTHRydUBpZXRmLm9yZwo+ICBodHRwOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4v bGlzdGluZm8vbHRydQo+CgoKCi0tIApNYXJrCl9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fCkx0cnUgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0Ckx0cnVAaWV0Zi5vcmcKaHR0cDov L3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL2x0cnUK From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Sat Feb 23 12:35:25 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2AB5D3A6B22; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 12:35:25 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.36 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.36 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.692, BAYES_05=-1.11, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fI2ieynzEATI; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 12:35:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F5C53A6A88; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 12:35:24 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89CF63A6A88 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 12:35:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AWcIuVMOtV0m for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 12:35:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from mta14.adelphia.net (mta14.adelphia.net [68.168.78.137]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0EFB3A67EA for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 12:35:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from DGBP7M81 ([76.167.184.182]) by mta11.adelphia.net (InterMail vM.6.01.05.02 201-2131-123-102-20050715) with SMTP id <20080223195100.NWKQ14551.mta11.adelphia.net@DGBP7M81> for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 14:51:00 -0500 Message-ID: <004101c87655$6a297a20$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> From: "Doug Ewell" To: "LTRU Working Group" References: Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 11:50:59 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 Subject: Re: [Ltru] Editorial Comments Only--RFC4646bis-11 X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; 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Sat, 23 Feb 2008 12:46:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.752 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.752 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.315, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HrhasnCdA8B2; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 12:46:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A90F3A6A58; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 12:46:45 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A2E128C34E for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 12:46:44 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ghYXpukjRfbR for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 12:46:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from rsmtp1.corp.yahoo.com (rsmtp1.corp.yahoo.com [207.126.228.149]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38BE528C316 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 12:46:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.72.76.56] (snvvpn2-10-72-76-c56.corp.yahoo.com [10.72.76.56]) by rsmtp1.corp.yahoo.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/y.rout) with ESMTP id m1NKkULS090797; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 12:46:30 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; s=serpent; d=yahoo-inc.com; c=nofws; q=dns; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject: references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=k9tDnHvWw127IipjD0XQ1vRCXsRITY7U80UlsGc/zOBVMLc7gYNZu+2CXiCii3eq Message-ID: <47C08625.9090704@yahoo-inc.com> Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 12:46:29 -0800 From: Addison Phillips User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Doug Ewell References: <004101c87655$6a297a20$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> In-Reply-To: <004101c87655$6a297a20$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> Cc: LTRU Working Group Subject: Re: [Ltru] Editorial Comments Only--RFC4646bis-11 X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Doug Ewell wrote: > Addison Phillips wrote: > >>> What still remains open is what should happen when 3166/MA reassigns >>> a code formerly used for one country to that same country. >> Yes, the Burma->Myanmar->Burma conjecture. Care was used not to >> prohibit it here. > > So, bottom line, is there: > > (a) consensus to I support this one. > > change the rule about Preferred-Value to allow the value to be modified? > This has a direct impact on draft-4645bis, since the purpose of changing > the rule is to get rid of the need to "chase pointers" to find the true > preferred value. I need to know whether the draft Registry needs to be > changed for cases like Hakka. Needless to say, this is anything but > "editorial only." It depends on how we change it as to whether you have to change the "chase pointers". Allowing something is not the same as requiring it. But that said, I think it likely that you'd want to make the change. I agree that this is a technical change. We are "destabilizing" something (although I suspect that many of us thought it wasn't intended to be stable). Addison -- Addison Phillips Globalization Architect -- Yahoo! Inc. Chair -- W3C Internationalization Core WG Internationalization is an architecture. It is not a feature. _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Sat Feb 23 13:49:25 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 226523A6B3C; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 13:49:25 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.888 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.888 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.297, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, HTML_MESSAGE=1, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uh-uTD4-tPQY; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 13:49:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B0803A6B6C; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 13:49:24 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 670113A6B49 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 13:49:23 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GZGoXa82-xWZ for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 13:49:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from wf-out-1314.google.com (wf-out-1314.google.com [209.85.200.173]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65FF928C398 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 13:49:22 -0800 (PST) Received: by wf-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 25so510397wfa.31 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 13:49:17 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references:x-google-sender-auth; bh=z0MGTKypin3HFiTPK3NU1EDa3U4ZJaWqdGDeMgowGus=; b=n9PlFdjnuLwSJbi6PEVgTHiHz7Y9CtrzRrlbr62kVw3gdaBDSLuqFO24HUuq2L6Rvs4o2ynW1DIUHO8q0vRqAPdBZRcESKmgkHgaLMGR6bJQx8rxDPnt6Fxypwsy9qyY4CYkXsrKJMpxGn2ODhOESw2II626gR2iJoHM3sVErf8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references:x-google-sender-auth; b=w8G3ZwLnu4TDMjx8JbpwrOFjNWl6HMBh2G2/PGroodkPjKZr1q4HDrTbIQu18wzIFAcLOn/EQnbAXGydw+oVDQXmSsPKjHCIu0N53g7jAyfQSGUThBG+bAxX6chI2TLT64LZUdgpRmxgPQ7Z329DbezZTNPAY/h2R3A/JzGgldo= Received: by 10.142.128.6 with SMTP id a6mr693859wfd.206.1203803357221; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 13:49:17 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.143.174.8 with HTTP; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 13:49:16 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <30b660a20802231349h3e857f8dyb020671e690f2ce0@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 13:49:16 -0800 From: "Mark Davis" To: "Addison Phillips" In-Reply-To: <47C08625.9090704@yahoo-inc.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <004101c87655$6a297a20$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> <47C08625.9090704@yahoo-inc.com> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 026f6f36c396c362 Cc: Doug Ewell , LTRU Working Group Subject: Re: [Ltru] Editorial Comments Only--RFC4646bis-11 X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1520158703==" Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org --===============1520158703== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_4755_3977015.1203803357268" ------=_Part_4755_3977015.1203803357268 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Also in favor of (a). While it is a technical change, it is not in practice destabilizing anything, since the canonical form was always already "unstable", because of the possibility (and reality) of adding Preferred-Value to any subtag. Mark On Sat, Feb 23, 2008 at 12:46 PM, Addison Phillips wrote: > Doug Ewell wrote: > > Addison Phillips wrote: > > > >>> What still remains open is what should happen when 3166/MA reassigns > >>> a code formerly used for one country to that same country. > >> Yes, the Burma->Myanmar->Burma conjecture. Care was used not to > >> prohibit it here. > > > > So, bottom line, is there: > > > > (a) consensus to > > > I support this one. > > > > > change the rule about Preferred-Value to allow the value to be modified? > > This has a direct impact on draft-4645bis, since the purpose of changing > > the rule is to get rid of the need to "chase pointers" to find the true > > preferred value. I need to know whether the draft Registry needs to be > > changed for cases like Hakka. Needless to say, this is anything but > > "editorial only." > > It depends on how we change it as to whether you have to change the > "chase pointers". Allowing something is not the same as requiring it. > But that said, I think it likely that you'd want to make the change. > > I agree that this is a technical change. We are "destabilizing" > something (although I suspect that many of us thought it wasn't intended > to be stable). > > Addison > > -- > Addison Phillips > Globalization Architect -- Yahoo! Inc. > Chair -- W3C Internationalization Core WG > > Internationalization is an architecture. > It is not a feature. > _______________________________________________ > Ltru mailing list > Ltru@ietf.org > http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru > -- Mark ------=_Part_4755_3977015.1203803357268 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Also in favor of (a).

While it is a technical change, it is not in practice destabilizing anything, since the canonical form was always already "unstable", because of the possibility (and reality) of adding Preferred-Value to any subtag.

Mark

On Sat, Feb 23, 2008 at 12:46 PM, Addison Phillips <addison@yahoo-inc.com> wrote:
Doug Ewell wrote:
> Addison Phillips <addison at yahoo dash inc dot com> wrote:
>
>>> What still remains open is what should happen when 3166/MA reassigns
>>> a code formerly used for one country to that same country.
>> Yes, the Burma->Myanmar->Burma conjecture. Care was used not to
>> prohibit it here.
>
> So, bottom line, is there:
>
> (a) consensus to


I support this one.

>
> change the rule about Preferred-Value to allow the value to be modified?
> This has a direct impact on draft-4645bis, since the purpose of changing
> the rule is to get rid of the need to "chase pointers" to find the true
> preferred value.  I need to know whether the draft Registry needs to be
> changed for cases like Hakka.  Needless to say, this is anything but
> "editorial only."

It depends on how we change it as to whether you have to change the
"chase pointers". Allowing something is not the same as requiring it.
But that said, I think it likely that you'd want to make the change.

I agree that this is a technical change. We are "destabilizing"
something (although I suspect that many of us thought it wasn't intended
to be stable).

Addison

--
Addison Phillips
Globalization Architect -- Yahoo! Inc.
Chair -- W3C Internationalization Core WG

Internationalization is an architecture.
It is not a feature.
_______________________________________________



--
Mark ------=_Part_4755_3977015.1203803357268-- --===============1520158703== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru --===============1520158703==-- From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Sat Feb 23 13:50:28 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC03F3A6AE3; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 13:50:28 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.371 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.371 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.066, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id et2cc9IbQkHO; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 13:50:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EBCF83A6AF5; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 13:50:27 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 310893A68CD for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 13:50:27 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id k8D4-ll3ex8l for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 13:50:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from mta9.adelphia.net (mta9.adelphia.net [68.168.78.199]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 053F53A6A9A for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 13:50:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from DGBP7M81 ([76.167.184.182]) by mta9.adelphia.net (InterMail vM.6.01.05.02 201-2131-123-102-20050715) with SMTP id <20080223215020.HAPT10598.mta9.adelphia.net@DGBP7M81>; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 16:50:20 -0500 Message-ID: <005201c87666$16356940$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> From: "Doug Ewell" To: "LTRU Working Group" References: Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 13:50:20 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 Cc: Michael Everson Subject: Re: [Ltru] Registration Forms; have we made it clear which are archived X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org QWRkaXNvbiBQaGlsbGlwcyA8YWRkaXNvbiBhdCB5YWhvbyBkYXNoIGluYyBkb3QgY29tPiB3cm90 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Ym92ZS4KCi0tCkRvdWcgRXdlbGwgICogIEZ1bGxlcnRvbiwgQ2FsaWZvcm5pYSwgVVNBICAqICBS RkMgNDY0NSAgKiAgVVROICMxNApodHRwOi8vd3d3LmV3ZWxsaWMub3JnCmh0dHA6Ly93d3cxLmll dGYub3JnL2h0bWwuY2hhcnRlcnMvbHRydS1jaGFydGVyLmh0bWwKaHR0cDovL3d3dy5hbHZlc3Ry YW5kLm5vL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vaWV0Zi1sYW5ndWFnZXMgIMuGCgoKX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18KTHRydSBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QKTHRy dUBpZXRmLm9yZwpodHRwOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vbHRydQo= From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Sat Feb 23 13:51:23 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39C2B3A6AF5; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 13:51:23 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.376 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.376 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.061, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id e8oew4L8IAUY; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 13:51:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C06328C1DC; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 13:51:22 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4D753A686A for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 13:51:20 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4OTEIwzkI32G for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 13:51:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from mta11.adelphia.net (mta11.adelphia.net [68.168.78.205]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4A4928C1DC for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 13:51:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from DGBP7M81 ([76.167.184.182]) by mta11.adelphia.net (InterMail vM.6.01.05.02 201-2131-123-102-20050715) with SMTP id <20080223215114.RMYH14551.mta11.adelphia.net@DGBP7M81>; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 16:51:14 -0500 Message-ID: <005401c87666$362befd0$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> From: "Doug Ewell" To: "LTRU Working Group" References: <004301c87656$ce7a0f70$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> <30b660a20802231212h2a0184b4q5d25f0d4aacc2512@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 13:51:13 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 Subject: Re: [Ltru] Proposed edits (davis) X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org TWFyayBEYXZpcyA8bWFyayBkb3QgZGF2aXMgYXQgaWN1IGRhc2ggcHJvamVjdCBkb3Qgb3JnPiB3 cm90ZToKCj4gQWRkaXNvbidzIGxhbmd1YWdlIGlzIG9rLCBidXQgSSdkIHJhdGhlciBiZSBhIGJp dCBtb3JlIGZvY3VzZWQuIFNvIEkgCj4gc3VnZ2VzdCBhIHNsaWdodCBhbWVuZGF0aW9uOgo+Cj4g VGhlIHByaW1hcnkgcmVhc29uIGZvciBjb21tZW50cyBhcmUgZm9yIHN1YnRhZyBpZGVudGlmaWNh dGlvbjogdG8gaGVscCAKPiBkaXN0aW5ndWlzaCB0aGUgc3VidGFnIGZyb20gb3RoZXJzIHdpdGgg d2hpY2ggaXQgbWlnaHQgYmUgY29uZnVzZWQuIEluIAo+IHBhcnRpY3VsYXIsIGxhcmdlIGFtb3Vu dHMgb2YgaW5mb3JtYXRpb24gYWJvdXQgdGhlIHVzZSwgaGlzdG9yeSwgb3IgCj4gZ2VuZXJhbCBi YWNrZ3JvdW5kIG9mIGEgc3VidGFnIGFyZSBmcm93bmVkIHVwb246IHRoZXNlIGdlbmVyYWxseSAK PiBiZWxvbmcgYW5kIGFyZSBlbmNvdXJhZ2VkIGluIHJlZ2lzdHJhdGlvbiByZXF1ZXN0cywgYnV0 IGRvIG5vdCBiZWxvbmcgCj4gaW4gdGhlIHJlZ2lzdHJ5IHJlY29yZCBwcm9wZXIuCgorMQoKLS0K RG91ZyBFd2VsbCAgKiAgRnVsbGVydG9uLCBDYWxpZm9ybmlhLCBVU0EgICogIFJGQyA0NjQ1ICAq ICBVVE4gIzE0Cmh0dHA6Ly93d3cuZXdlbGxpYy5vcmcKaHR0cDovL3d3dzEuaWV0Zi5vcmcvaHRt bC5jaGFydGVycy9sdHJ1LWNoYXJ0ZXIuaHRtbApodHRwOi8vd3d3LmFsdmVzdHJhbmQubm8vbWFp bG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9pZXRmLWxhbmd1YWdlcyAgy4YKCl9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fCkx0cnUgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0Ckx0cnVAaWV0Zi5vcmcK aHR0cDovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL2x0cnUK From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Sat Feb 23 13:57:54 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A23913A6B84; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 13:57:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.378 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.378 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.059, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wIvsojBguhug; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 13:57:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1EFB3A6A9A; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 13:57:53 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 922133A6B45 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 13:57:52 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id q2Zbos82tYWN for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 13:57:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from mta10.adelphia.net (mta10.adelphia.net [68.168.78.202]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AE0F28C430 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 13:57:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from DGBP7M81 ([76.167.184.182]) by mta10.adelphia.net (InterMail vM.6.01.05.02 201-2131-123-102-20050715) with SMTP id <20080223215732.KXON26616.mta10.adelphia.net@DGBP7M81>; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 16:57:32 -0500 Message-ID: <005c01c87667$17ba8d30$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> From: "Doug Ewell" To: "LTRU Working Group" References: <004101c87655$6a297a20$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> <47C08625.9090704@yahoo-inc.com> Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 13:57:32 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 Subject: Re: [Ltru] Editorial Comments Only--RFC4646bis-11 X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org QWRkaXNvbiBQaGlsbGlwcyA8YWRkaXNvbiBhdCB5YWhvbyBkYXNoIGluYyBkb3QgY29tPiB3cm90 ZToKCj4gSXQgZGVwZW5kcyBvbiBob3cgd2UgY2hhbmdlIGl0IGFzIHRvIHdoZXRoZXIgeW91IGhh dmUgdG8gY2hhbmdlIHRoZSAKPiAiY2hhc2UgcG9pbnRlcnMiLiBBbGxvd2luZyBzb21ldGhpbmcg aXMgbm90IHRoZSBzYW1lIGFzIHJlcXVpcmluZyBpdC4gCj4gQnV0IHRoYXQgc2FpZCwgSSB0aGlu ayBpdCBsaWtlbHkgdGhhdCB5b3UnZCB3YW50IHRvIG1ha2UgdGhlIGNoYW5nZS4KCkkgdGhpbmsg aXQgd291bGQgYmUgcmVnYXJkZWQgYXMgYSBtaXN0YWtlIG9uIG91ciBwYXJ0IG5vdCB0byBjaGFu Z2UgCnRoZW0uCgpWZXJ5IHdlbGwsIHRoZW46IHVwb24gUmFuZHkncyBjb25maXJtYXRpb24gb2Yg dGhpcyBjaGFuZ2UsIEkgd2lsbCBlZGl0IApkcmFmdC00NjQ1YmlzIHNvIHRoYXQgdGhlIFByZWZl cnJlZC1WYWx1ZXMgZm9yICJpLWhhayIgYW5kICJ6aC1ndW95dSIgCndpbGwgYmUgImhhayIgYW5k ICJjbW4iIHJlc3BlY3RpdmVseS4gIChBbnkgb3RoZXJzPykKCi0tCkRvdWcgRXdlbGwgICogIEZ1 bGxlcnRvbiwgQ2FsaWZvcm5pYSwgVVNBICAqICBSRkMgNDY0NSAgKiAgVVROICMxNApodHRwOi8v d3d3LmV3ZWxsaWMub3JnCmh0dHA6Ly93d3cxLmlldGYub3JnL2h0bWwuY2hhcnRlcnMvbHRydS1j aGFydGVyLmh0bWwKaHR0cDovL3d3dy5hbHZlc3RyYW5kLm5vL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vaWV0 Zi1sYW5ndWFnZXMgIMuGCgpfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fXwpMdHJ1IG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdApMdHJ1QGlldGYub3JnCmh0dHA6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5v cmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9sdHJ1Cg== From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Sat Feb 23 13:58:53 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 688033A6B66; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 13:58:53 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.89 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.89 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-2.099, BAYES_40=-0.185, FAKE_REPLY_C=2.012, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vylRfXfIiOMz; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 13:58:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A44513A6B45; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 13:58:52 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8192D3A68E4 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 13:58:51 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0QbPlQfxke3a for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 13:58:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from mta9.adelphia.net (mta9.adelphia.net [68.168.78.199]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B04E43A6B45 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 13:58:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from DGBP7M81 ([76.167.184.182]) by mta9.adelphia.net (InterMail vM.6.01.05.02 201-2131-123-102-20050715) with SMTP id <20080223215845.HICU10598.mta9.adelphia.net@DGBP7M81> for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 16:58:45 -0500 Message-ID: <006001c87667$432a64e0$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> From: "Doug Ewell" To: "LTRU Working Group" Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 13:58:45 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 Subject: Re: [Ltru] The case against adding 'UK' X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org V2FzIHRoZXJlIGEgZmluYWwgZGVjaXNpb24gb24gdGhlIHF1ZXN0aW9uIG9mIGFkZGluZyAnVUsn IHRvIHRoZSA0NjQ1YmlzIApSZWdpc3RyeT8KCi0tCkRvdWcgRXdlbGwgICogIEZ1bGxlcnRvbiwg Q2FsaWZvcm5pYSwgVVNBICAqICBSRkMgNDY0NSAgKiAgVVROICMxNApodHRwOi8vd3d3LmV3ZWxs aWMub3JnCmh0dHA6Ly93d3cxLmlldGYub3JnL2h0bWwuY2hhcnRlcnMvbHRydS1jaGFydGVyLmh0 bWwKaHR0cDovL3d3dy5hbHZlc3RyYW5kLm5vL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vaWV0Zi1sYW5ndWFn ZXMgIMuGCgpfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXwpM dHJ1IG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdApMdHJ1QGlldGYub3JnCmh0dHA6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1h bi9saXN0aW5mby9sdHJ1Cg== From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Sat Feb 23 14:43:11 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC3563A67EA; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 14:43:11 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.447 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.447 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.010, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BriP2Ts5Jsnq; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 14:43:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01C4F3A686A; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 14:43:11 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 670873A686A for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 14:43:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IkO-g6Y5AHJy for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 14:43:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from sl14.dnsireland.com (unknown [74.86.129.163]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8655E3A67EA for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 14:43:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from murrisk2.westnet.ie ([88.81.100.235] helo=[192.168.1.126]) by sl14.dnsireland.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1JT35D-0001u0-Ow; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 22:43:04 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <005201c87666$16356940$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> References: <005201c87666$16356940$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 22:38:29 +0000 To: "Doug Ewell" , "LTRU Working Group" From: Michael Everson X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - sl14.dnsireland.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - evertype.com Subject: Re: [Ltru] Registration Forms; have we made it clear which are archived X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org At 13:50 -0800 2008-02-23, Doug Ewell wrote: >I see from draft-4646bis-12, section 3.3 that this is being changed, >so that Michael and I will have to generate registration forms for >ISO-based changes, and IANA will have to archive them along with the >individually requested ones. This strikes me as pointless busy work >for Michael and me, but I won't fight to the death over it, since >ding so seems to have little or no effect of late. I probably >should have noticed this change sooner. Michael objects to pointless busywork. The reviewing process should not be made more difficult for the Reviewer. He should Review. >I've cc'd Michael on this, so he is aware of the extra work we have >in store. Recall that ISO-based changes often come several at a >time. > >>- "registrations" committed by RFC 4645 or draft-4645bis are a >>special case for which no forms are created or archived. This is >>covered in all four relevant RFCs/I-Ds: 4645 4646 4645bis and >>4646bis. > >I certainly agree with this. -- Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Sat Feb 23 16:07:25 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A68C3A6B97; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 16:07:25 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.568 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.568 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.131, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pnzUUJ7p5K2k; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 16:07:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96ACF3A68B8; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 16:07:24 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D2983A6B8C for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 16:07:23 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PmzIfM++sIsC for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 16:07:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from earth.ccil.org (earth.ccil.org [192.190.237.11]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 513843A68B8 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 16:07:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from cowan by earth.ccil.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1JT4Oi-0002mn-MJ; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 19:07:16 -0500 Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 19:07:16 -0500 To: Doug Ewell Message-ID: <20080224000716.GB5176@mercury.ccil.org> References: <005201c87666$16356940$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <005201c87666$16356940$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11) From: John Cowan Cc: Michael Everson , LTRU Working Group Subject: Re: [Ltru] Registration Forms; have we made it clear which are archived X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Doug Ewell scripsit: > I see from draft-4646bis-12, section 3.3 that this is being changed, so > that Michael and I will have to generate registration forms for > ISO-based changes, and IANA will have to archive them along with the > individually requested ones. This strikes me as pointless busy work for > Michael and me I agree, and think this should be undone. ISO-based changes are their own justification: we don't need the detailed information that the registration form provides. -- We call nothing profound cowan@ccil.org that is not wittily expressed. John Cowan --Northrop Frye (improved) _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Sat Feb 23 16:42:26 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7A6A28C26F; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 16:42:26 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.75 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.75 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.313, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nIqitDlRx9Lt; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 16:42:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0A3128C1E1; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 16:42:25 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6AAEF28C1E1 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 16:42:24 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id C2cf1FplNegJ for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 16:42:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from rsmtp1.corp.yahoo.com (rsmtp1.corp.yahoo.com [207.126.228.149]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D72A28C178 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 16:42:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.72.76.56] (snvvpn2-10-72-76-c56.corp.yahoo.com [10.72.76.56]) by rsmtp1.corp.yahoo.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/y.rout) with ESMTP id m1O0g3Kb099775; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 16:42:03 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; s=serpent; d=yahoo-inc.com; c=nofws; q=dns; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject: references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=E3s9onUzPV4c41oFH61YCoh+s+a+6oipMHu4+fX6NP48qMFT/41V/zWNZg80b4o2 Message-ID: <47C0BD5A.70101@yahoo-inc.com> Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 16:42:02 -0800 From: Addison Phillips User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Doug Ewell References: <005201c87666$16356940$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> In-Reply-To: <005201c87666$16356940$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> Cc: LTRU Working Group Subject: Re: [Ltru] Registration Forms; have we made it clear which are archived X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Doug Ewell wrote: > > I see from draft-4646bis-12, section 3.3 that this is being changed, so > that Michael and I will have to generate registration forms for > ISO-based changes, and IANA will have to archive them along with the > individually requested ones. This strikes me as pointless busy work for > Michael and me, but I won't fight to the death over it, since ding so > seems to have little or no effect of late. I probably should have > noticed this change sooner. Probably a lot sooner :-), since it was in draft-06 that this sentence makes its first appearance: -- Usually this requires that the Language Subtag Reviewer fill in and submit the registration form found in Section 3.5 (Registration Procedure for Subtags) for the new or updated record. -- IIRC, this was done as part of clarifying the public review process and time periods for the automatic registrations. RFC 4646 didn't say very explicitly whether Michael was going to submit information to the list, for how long he was obliged to wait for commentary, and that sort of thing. > > I've cc'd Michael on this, so he is aware of the extra work we have in > store. Recall that ISO-based changes often come several at a time. I am not fond of the registration forms. I think their preparation and archiving is a lot of busy work for IANA, Doug, and the LSR--and they are difficult and annoying for most applicants to use. Personally, I wish we'd do away with the form and just require the necessary information be submitted with the record. Nonetheless, some people like the forms very much. I note that every registration coming from the LSR will bear the exact same information each and every time and most of this information has to be sent to the list anyway. Items 4 and 5 in the reg form don't apply to items required by BCP 47. So the work involved would be extremely small. > >> I don't think any changes to the I-D are being proposed here; I don't >> think any changes are warranted; and I think that the existing process >> (as described, but not always practiced very rigorously) is a Good >> Thing. > > The text in draft-4646bis-12 regarding ISO-based changes does not > reflect the existing process. The existing process is spelled out in > RFC 4646, as quoted above. > You're correct and my comment above is wrong. The problem here is that CEW's comment exposes one reason why these changes were made: if you use the registration forms, it's kind of weird not to see all insertions and modifications archived. > Recall that ISO-based changes often come several at a time. Good point: should we relax the restriction on the LSR sending them as a batch to IANA? Addison -- Addison Phillips Globalization Architect -- Yahoo! Inc. Chair -- W3C Internationalization Core WG Internationalization is an architecture. It is not a feature. _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Sat Feb 23 16:52:51 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 916AD3A6C1F; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 16:52:51 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.333 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.333 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.104, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GLX4twtDva+v; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 16:52:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD5DB3A6BEB; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 16:52:50 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A9033A6C42 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 16:52:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id edQM-YNPAOdP for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 16:52:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.61]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 150843A6BD2 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 16:52:03 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=mindspring.com; b=N6RNpIRFEBHX0ctP41oJ+tvHI69OCLWoR/PmPLLriy+Uah4JG6pvc6ntZKQ4lhzy; h=Received:Message-ID:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [68.166.189.66] (helo=oemcomputer) by elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1JT55y-0002zG-2y for ltru@ietf.org; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 19:51:58 -0500 Message-ID: <003f01c8767f$9bf66700$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> From: "Randy Presuhn" To: "LTRU Working Group" References: <006001c87667$432a64e0$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 16:53:01 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-ELNK-Trace: 4488c18417c9426da92b9037bc8bcf44d4c20f6b8d69d8885d2a9c731cc89117bd484ad71afbed1ce3bda42470b4b27b350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 68.166.189.66 Subject: Re: [Ltru] The case against adding 'UK' X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Hi - > From: "Doug Ewell" > To: "LTRU Working Group" > Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2008 1:58 PM > Subject: Re: [Ltru] The case against adding 'UK' > > Was there a final decision on the question of adding 'UK' to the 4645bis > Registry? ... As a technical contributor... while I have some sympathy for having a standardized way of dealing with garbage tags like en-UK, I ultimately thank it's better to *not* add UK, leaving things as they are. As co-chair: Here's my tally: Mark Davis: don't add Doug Ewell: don't add Addison Phillips: don't add Randy: don't add John Cowan: add it (two proposals offered) Kent Karlsson: add it (one proposal) Debbie Garside: add it (Kent's proposal) Peter Constable: add it (Kent's proposal) This isn't a consensus for change, not even a rough one. :-) The text should stay as it is. Randy _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Sat Feb 23 17:02:30 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 488203A6BFD; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 17:02:30 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.387 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.387 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.050, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FWmsDNEecNBq; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 17:02:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AB443A6A68; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 17:02:29 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96EF33A68C4 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 17:02:27 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Z3mK9IfvENaQ for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 17:02:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.66]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8929C3A6AC5 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 17:02:14 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=mindspring.com; b=DOqI6CWR0uvITSuDTWHfbRqSLVg8ZC2pttUWA4zG6U4OvDyOf4e8bqvT6+Smna64; h=Received:Message-ID:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [68.166.189.66] (helo=oemcomputer) by elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1JT5Fp-0001mB-G5 for ltru@ietf.org; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 20:02:09 -0500 Message-ID: <005d01c87681$085f9640$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> From: "Randy Presuhn" To: "LTRU Working Group" References: <005201c87666$16356940$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> <47C0BD5A.70101@yahoo-inc.com> Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 17:03:13 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-ELNK-Trace: 4488c18417c9426da92b9037bc8bcf44d4c20f6b8d69d8885d2a9c731cc8911780a14c008ff84ed1581c16930506546f350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 68.166.189.66 Subject: Re: [Ltru] Registration Forms; have we made it clear which are archived X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Hi - As a technical contributor, I object to special-casing the archival requirements. *All* changes, regardless of source, should be archived, in my opinion. However, I do agree that creating registration forms for ISO-trigged changes does seem a bit like busy work. If folks thing that ISO changes are so frequent that this busy work is truly onerous, I think IANA could satisfy the spirit of the requirement by simply archiving the relevant email message in those cases. Randy _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Sat Feb 23 17:11:10 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9D7F3A6B84; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 17:11:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.433 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.433 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.004, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NZsS599Qr7Fu; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 17:11:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1ED493A6A68; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 17:11:10 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61F863A69E2 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 17:11:09 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LeQWPoNLaCvf for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 17:11:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.68]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83D1B3A6AC5 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 17:11:08 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=mindspring.com; b=Kdor99f0JFROvZFAHtIBqvioB0vVIy59NAO6ghwHdsIqbofyviaoKJ0RRtTc5ii2; h=Received:Message-ID:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [68.166.189.66] (helo=oemcomputer) by elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1JT5OR-00088S-Bm for ltru@ietf.org; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 20:11:03 -0500 Message-ID: <007b01c87682$46a67800$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> From: "Randy Presuhn" To: "LTRU Working Group" References: <004101c87655$6a297a20$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 17:12:07 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-ELNK-Trace: 4488c18417c9426da92b9037bc8bcf44d4c20f6b8d69d8885d2a9c731cc89117856d9386d393c9694267edba0d3221a8350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 68.166.189.66 Subject: Re: [Ltru] Updating Preferred-Value: field X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Hi - (Please note, I've put this discussion back into the correct thread!) > From: "Doug Ewell" > To: "LTRU Working Group" > Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2008 11:50 AM > Subject: Re: [Ltru] Editorial Comments Only--RFC4646bis-11 > > Addison Phillips wrote: > > >> What still remains open is what should happen when 3166/MA reassigns > >> a code formerly used for one country to that same country. > > > > Yes, the Burma->Myanmar->Burma conjecture. Care was used not to > > prohibit it here. As a technical contributor... I still think this is trumped (at least in spirit) by 3.4 (10) (D): D. For ISO 3166 codes, if the newly assigned code's meaning is associated with the same UN M.49 code as another 'region' subtag, then the existing region subtag remains as the preferred value for that region and no new entry is created. A comment MAY be added to the existing region subtag indicating the relationship to the new ISO 3166 code. > So, bottom line, is there: > > (a) consensus to > (b) consensus not to > (c) no decision yet whether to As co-chair... Since part of the discussion appears to be in a thread labeled "editorial", it'll take me a while to chase it down. Hint for the future: good subject lines result in quicker decisions. Randy _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Sat Feb 23 17:26:40 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B36F3A6BA2; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 17:26:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.57 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.57 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.133, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id URvuJz+NW98A; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 17:26:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CDC13A69E2; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 17:26:39 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4622C3A6B1E for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 17:26:38 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AHg1LY6yrJR2 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 17:26:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from earth.ccil.org (earth.ccil.org [192.190.237.11]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D1F53A69E2 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 17:26:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from cowan by earth.ccil.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1JT5dP-0007w0-PZ; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 20:26:31 -0500 Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 20:26:31 -0500 To: Randy Presuhn Message-ID: <20080224012631.GA29957@mercury.ccil.org> References: <006001c87667$432a64e0$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> <003f01c8767f$9bf66700$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <003f01c8767f$9bf66700$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11) From: John Cowan Cc: ltru@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Ltru] The case against adding 'UK' X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Randy Presuhn scripsit: > John Cowan: add it (two proposals offered) I'm opposed to adding it. I just wrote the text. -- Here lies the Christian, John Cowan judge, and poet Peter, http://www.ccil.org/~cowan Who broke the laws of God cowan@ccil.org and man and metre. _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Sat Feb 23 17:35:51 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3CD53A6ADE; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 17:35:51 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.876 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.876 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.309, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, HTML_MESSAGE=1, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AB8JV+yEI0b7; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 17:35:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C28103A69E2; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 17:35:50 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C6F13A69DB for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 17:35:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zCKgRYpkvWwn for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 17:35:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from gv-out-0910.google.com (gv-out-0910.google.com [216.239.58.190]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D61953A6A68 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 17:35:47 -0800 (PST) Received: by gv-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id i36so351450gve.15 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 17:35:41 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references:x-google-sender-auth; bh=Z3fAV5fLGvZzyxBWC1UAN310aHP54q7wlnpG5v6+4uA=; b=C+PlcmakfN9fFG6Pfy4unDrMvrN+Jm3sdrzp9eZ5EwqVtaaKSBta14mNQMp3JvJVeoTPdLhsc0TDOFU+HjBOxA2ZJ7O+UrnCBxDSqq7wBZIh9MrMEvobYZO+rHNZbPhCBPfAvBCfzQS+ibwtmKuugsDXW092s0NvuxNdaRpW6II= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references:x-google-sender-auth; b=DdxQmJvBXjwNLxBzkwj9VNo/BIYli3BV4iU4U36S4y8Q7D+xOBbquVtotERoUFRUo35VJ3sXJ4aewLyM6pOBXN2hCI1/YxlYLpq783xxlr92NOb7RyBxTKuBS3kPdZfylDJFI4uBR6gtY6MdwpavfRpEDD6TBD0Ai8J0T9MXciQ= Received: by 10.143.168.14 with SMTP id v14mr812324wfo.210.1203816939809; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 17:35:39 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.143.174.8 with HTTP; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 17:35:39 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <30b660a20802231735pd0977bfq557f88a8068626b3@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 17:35:39 -0800 From: "Mark Davis" To: "Randy Presuhn" In-Reply-To: <007b01c87682$46a67800$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <004101c87655$6a297a20$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> <007b01c87682$46a67800$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 24d2afd88bd14dc5 Cc: LTRU Working Group Subject: Re: [Ltru] Updating Preferred-Value: field X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1651699304==" Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org --===============1651699304== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_5024_27417045.1203816939818" ------=_Part_5024_27417045.1203816939818 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Let's suppose we have in 2008 the following in the registry, where => indicates a Preferred-Value. BU MM => BU US Let's suppose that ISO in 2010 changes US to UX and MM to BU. We will clearly make the change of US to UX. For BU/MM we have three choices: A. Switch back to BU. Result: BU => MM MM US => UX UX B. Keep MM. Result: BU MM => BU US => UX UX C. Use the UN M.49 code (say, 666). Result: 666 BU => 666 MM => 666 US => UX UX I find any choice but A to be bizarre. Why should the preexistance of BU -- with the same meaning! -- cause us to do something different with MM than we do with US? We need to make the appropriate changes to do the expected, reasonable thing. Mark On Sat, Feb 23, 2008 at 5:12 PM, Randy Presuhn wrote: > Hi - > > (Please note, I've put this discussion back into the correct thread!) > > > From: "Doug Ewell" > > To: "LTRU Working Group" > > Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2008 11:50 AM > > Subject: Re: [Ltru] Editorial Comments Only--RFC4646bis-11 > > > > Addison Phillips wrote: > > > > >> What still remains open is what should happen when 3166/MA reassigns > > >> a code formerly used for one country to that same country. > > > > > > Yes, the Burma->Myanmar->Burma conjecture. Care was used not to > > > prohibit it here. > > As a technical contributor... > I still think this is trumped (at least in spirit) by 3.4 (10) (D): > > D. For ISO 3166 codes, if the newly assigned code's meaning is > associated with the same UN M.49 code as another 'region' > subtag, then the existing region subtag remains as the > preferred value for that region and no new entry is created. > A comment MAY be added to the existing region subtag > indicating the relationship to the new ISO 3166 code. > > > So, bottom line, is there: > > > > (a) consensus to > > (b) consensus not to > > (c) no decision yet whether to > > As co-chair... > Since part of the discussion appears to be in a thread labeled > "editorial", it'll take me a while to chase it down. Hint for > the future: good subject lines result in quicker decisions. > > Randy > > _______________________________________________ > Ltru mailing list > Ltru@ietf.org > http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru > -- Mark ------=_Part_5024_27417045.1203816939818 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Let's suppose we have in 2008 the following in the registry, where => indicates a Preferred-Value.

BU
MM => BU
US

Let's suppose that ISO in 2010 changes US to UX and MM to BU. We will clearly make the change of US to UX. For BU/MM we have three choices:

A. Switch back to BU.
Result:

BU => MM
MM
US => UX
UX

B. Keep MM.
Result:

BU
MM => BU
US => UX
UX

C. Use the UN M.49 code (say, 666).
Result:

666
BU => 666
MM => 666
US => UX
UX

I find any choice but A to be bizarre. Why should the preexistance of BU -- with the same meaning! -- cause us to do something different with MM than we do with US?

We need to make the appropriate changes to do the expected, reasonable thing.

Mark

On Sat, Feb 23, 2008 at 5:12 PM, Randy Presuhn <randy_presuhn@mindspring.com> wrote:
Hi -

(Please note, I've put this discussion back into the correct thread!)

> From: "Doug Ewell" <dewell@roadrunner.com>
> To: "LTRU Working Group" <ltru@ietf.org>
> Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2008 11:50 AM
> Subject: Re: [Ltru] Editorial Comments Only--RFC4646bis-11
>
> Addison Phillips <addison at yahoo dash inc dot com> wrote:
>
> >> What still remains open is what should happen when 3166/MA reassigns
> >> a code formerly used for one country to that same country.
> >
> > Yes, the Burma->Myanmar->Burma conjecture. Care was used not to
> > prohibit it here.

As a technical contributor...
I still think this is trumped (at least in spirit) by 3.4 (10) (D):

    D.  For ISO 3166 codes, if the newly assigned code's meaning is
        associated with the same UN M.49 code as another 'region'
        subtag, then the existing region subtag remains as the
        preferred value for that region and no new entry is created.
        A comment MAY be added to the existing region subtag
        indicating the relationship to the new ISO 3166 code.

> So, bottom line, is there:
>
> (a) consensus to
> (b) consensus not to
> (c) no decision yet whether to

As co-chair...
Since part of the discussion appears to be in a thread labeled
"editorial", it'll take me a while to chase it down.  Hint for
the future: good subject lines result in quicker decisions.

Randy

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Mark ------=_Part_5024_27417045.1203816939818-- --===============1651699304== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru --===============1651699304==-- From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Sat Feb 23 19:03:56 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1186A3A6B41; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 19:03:56 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.749 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.749 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.312, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dHXZhGsYT9gS; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 19:03:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F4763A6B18; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 19:03:55 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D58528C0F3 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 19:03:53 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tkAl5lCAc3js for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 19:03:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from rsmtp1.corp.yahoo.com (rsmtp1.corp.yahoo.com [207.126.228.149]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E1BE3A6AE7 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 19:03:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.72.76.56] (snvvpn2-10-72-76-c56.corp.yahoo.com [10.72.76.56]) by rsmtp1.corp.yahoo.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/y.rout) with ESMTP id m1O33XbR005276; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 19:03:33 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; s=serpent; d=yahoo-inc.com; c=nofws; q=dns; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject: references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=XaYy/ot2hJnLqkxdD8xMJLT22C0/SgxD8dmGsmjHMX2NH+SNhMubMk/NTQHVzecx Message-ID: <47C0DE85.1030209@yahoo-inc.com> Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 19:03:33 -0800 From: Addison Phillips User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mark Davis References: <004101c87655$6a297a20$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> <007b01c87682$46a67800$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> <30b660a20802231735pd0977bfq557f88a8068626b3@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <30b660a20802231735pd0977bfq557f88a8068626b3@mail.gmail.com> Cc: LTRU Working Group Subject: Re: [Ltru] Updating Preferred-Value: field X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Did you make a typo, Mark? Today we have: BU => MM MM Your text suggest that in your hypothetical you would support doing "B": MM => BU (point MM to BU) BU (remove the p-v) But your text *says* doing A, which is: MM (no change) BU => MM (and no change) Addison Mark Davis wrote: > Let's suppose we have in 2008 the following in the registry, where => > indicates a Preferred-Value. > > BU > MM => BU > US > > Let's suppose that ISO in 2010 changes US to UX and MM to BU. We will > clearly make the change of US to UX. For BU/MM we have three choices: > > A. Switch back to BU. > Result: > > BU => MM > MM > US => UX > UX > > B. Keep MM. > Result: > > BU > MM => BU > US => UX > UX > > C. Use the UN M.49 code (say, 666). > Result: > > 666 > BU => 666 > MM => 666 > US => UX > UX > > I find any choice but A to be bizarre. Why should the preexistance of BU > -- with the same meaning! -- cause us to do something different with MM > than we do with US? > > We need to make the appropriate changes to do the expected, reasonable > thing. > > Mark > > On Sat, Feb 23, 2008 at 5:12 PM, Randy Presuhn > > wrote: > > Hi - > > (Please note, I've put this discussion back into the correct thread!) > > > From: "Doug Ewell" > > > To: "LTRU Working Group" > > > Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2008 11:50 AM > > Subject: Re: [Ltru] Editorial Comments Only--RFC4646bis-11 > > > > Addison Phillips wrote: > > > > >> What still remains open is what should happen when 3166/MA > reassigns > > >> a code formerly used for one country to that same country. > > > > > > Yes, the Burma->Myanmar->Burma conjecture. Care was used not to > > > prohibit it here. > > As a technical contributor... > I still think this is trumped (at least in spirit) by 3.4 (10) (D): > > D. For ISO 3166 codes, if the newly assigned code's meaning is > associated with the same UN M.49 code as another 'region' > subtag, then the existing region subtag remains as the > preferred value for that region and no new entry is created. > A comment MAY be added to the existing region subtag > indicating the relationship to the new ISO 3166 code. > > > So, bottom line, is there: > > > > (a) consensus to > > (b) consensus not to > > (c) no decision yet whether to > > As co-chair... > Since part of the discussion appears to be in a thread labeled > "editorial", it'll take me a while to chase it down. Hint for > the future: good subject lines result in quicker decisions. > > Randy > > _______________________________________________ > Ltru mailing list > Ltru@ietf.org > http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru > > > > > -- > Mark > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Ltru mailing list > Ltru@ietf.org > http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru -- Addison Phillips Globalization Architect -- Yahoo! Inc. Chair -- W3C Internationalization Core WG Internationalization is an architecture. It is not a feature. _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Sat Feb 23 19:47:52 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1124528C2CF; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 19:47:52 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.296 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.296 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.141, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id u7XhrVzbSfNw; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 19:47:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E818F3A68E3; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 19:47:50 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B3F63A6B65 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 19:47:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xsJ0quKfPXWS for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 19:47:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from mta16.adelphia.net (mta16.mail.adelphia.net [68.168.78.211]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BAAC28C2D1 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 19:47:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from DGBP7M81 ([76.167.184.182]) by mta16.adelphia.net (InterMail vM.6.01.05.04 201-2131-123-105-20051025) with SMTP id <20080224034724.LWQF17537.mta16.adelphia.net@DGBP7M81>; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 22:47:24 -0500 Message-ID: <001101c87697$f775f060$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> From: "Doug Ewell" To: "LTRU Working Group" References: <005201c87666$16356940$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> <47C0BD5A.70101@yahoo-inc.com> Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 19:47:23 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 Subject: Re: [Ltru] Registration Forms; have we made it clear which are archived X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org QWRkaXNvbiBQaGlsbGlwcyA8YWRkaXNvbiBhdCB5YWhvbyBkYXNoIGluYyBkb3QgY29tPiB3cm90 ZToKCj4gSUlSQywgdGhpcyB3YXMgZG9uZSBhcyBwYXJ0IG9mIGNsYXJpZnlpbmcgdGhlIHB1Ymxp YyByZXZpZXcgcHJvY2VzcyAKPiBhbmQgdGltZSBwZXJpb2RzIGZvciB0aGUgYXV0b21hdGljIHJl Z2lzdHJhdGlvbnMuIFJGQyA0NjQ2IGRpZG4ndCBzYXkgCj4gdmVyeSBleHBsaWNpdGx5IHdoZXRo ZXIgTWljaGFlbCB3YXMgZ29pbmcgdG8gc3VibWl0IGluZm9ybWF0aW9uIHRvIHRoZSAKPiBsaXN0 LCBmb3IgaG93IGxvbmcgaGUgd2FzIG9ibGlnZWQgdG8gd2FpdCBmb3IgY29tbWVudGFyeSwgYW5k IHRoYXQgCj4gc29ydCBvZiB0aGluZy4KCkkgYWdyZWUgd2l0aCBpbXByb3ZpbmcgdGhlIHJldmll dyBwcm9jZXNzLCBwYXJ0aWN1bGFybHkgd2l0aCByZWdhcmQgdG8gCnRyYW5zcGFyZW5jeSBhbmQg dGltZWxpbmVzcy4gIEkgZG9uJ3QgYWdyZWUgd2l0aCBzb21lIG9mIHRoZSBvdGhlciBpZGVhcyAK dGhhdCBjYW1lIG91dCBvZiB0aGF0IGVmZm9ydCwgc3VjaCBhcyB0ZXJtIGxpbWl0cyBmb3IgdGhl IFJldmlld2VyIAood2hpY2ggYXBwYXJlbnRseSBuZXZlciBtYWRlIGl0IGludG8gYW55IGRyYWZ0 KSBvciB0aGUgbmVlZCB0byBmb3JtYWxseSAKcmVjb25maXJtIHRoZSBSZXZpZXdlciB3aGVuIDQ2 NDZiaXMgaXMgcHVibGlzaGVkICh3aGljaCB3ZSBuZXZlciBkaWQgZm9yIAo0NjQ2IG9yIDMwNjYp LiAgQW5kIEkgZG9uJ3QgYWdyZWUgYWJvdXQgcmVnaXN0cmF0aW9uIGZvcm1zIGZvciBJU08tYmFz ZWQgCmNoYW5nZXMsIGFzIHlvdSBrbm93LgoKPiBOb25ldGhlbGVzcywgc29tZSBwZW9wbGUgbGlr ZSB0aGUgZm9ybXMgdmVyeSBtdWNoLgoKUXVlc3Rpb24gZm9yIHRob3NlIHBlb3BsZTogV2hhdCBp cyB0aGUgc3BlY2lmaWMgYmVuZWZpdCBvZiBmb3JtcyBmb3IgCklTTy1iYXNlZCBjaGFuZ2VzPwoK PiBJIG5vdGUgdGhhdCBldmVyeSByZWdpc3RyYXRpb24gY29taW5nIGZyb20gdGhlIExTUiB3aWxs IGJlYXIgdGhlIGV4YWN0IAo+IHNhbWUgaW5mb3JtYXRpb24gZWFjaCBhbmQgZXZlcnkgdGltZSBh bmQgbW9zdCBvZiB0aGlzIGluZm9ybWF0aW9uIGhhcyAKPiB0byBiZSBzZW50IHRvIHRoZSBsaXN0 IGFueXdheS4gSXRlbXMgNCBhbmQgNSBpbiB0aGUgcmVnIGZvcm0gZG9uJ3QgCj4gYXBwbHkgdG8g aXRlbXMgcmVxdWlyZWQgYnkgQkNQIDQ3LiBTbyB0aGUgd29yayBpbnZvbHZlZCB3b3VsZCBiZSAK PiBleHRyZW1lbHkgc21hbGwuCgpJIGRvbid0IHNlZSBhIHByb2JsZW0gd2l0aCBzYXlpbmc6Cgox LiAgVGhlcmUgYXJlIHR3byB0eXBlcyBvZiBzdWJ0YWdzLCB0aG9zZSB0aGF0IGNvbWUgZnJvbSBp bmRpdmlkdWFsIApyZXF1ZXN0cyBhbmQgdGhvc2UgdGhhdCBjb21lIGZyb20gSVNPIG9yIFVOIHN0 YW5kYXJkcy4gIFlvdSBjYW4gdGVsbCAKd2hpY2ggYXJlIHdoaWNoIGZyb20gdGhlIHN5bnRheDsg eW91IGRvbid0IGV2ZW4gbmVlZCB0byBsb29rIGF0IHRoZSAKUmVnaXN0cnkuCgoyLiAgTmV3IHN1 YnRhZ3MgYW5kIGNoYW5nZXMgdGhhdCBjb21lIGludG8gYmVpbmcgZnJvbSBpbmRpdmlkdWFsIApy ZXF1ZXN0cyBoYXZlIHJlZ2lzdHJhdGlvbiBmb3JtczsgdGhvc2UgdGhhdCBjb21lIGZyb20gSVNP IG9yIFVOIApzdGFuZGFyZHMgZG8gbm90LgoKPiBHb29kIHBvaW50OiBzaG91bGQgd2UgcmVsYXgg dGhlIHJlc3RyaWN0aW9uIG9uIHRoZSBMU1Igc2VuZGluZyB0aGVtIGFzIAo+IGEgYmF0Y2ggdG8g SUFOQT8KClNwZWFraW5nIGFzIHRoZSBvbmUgd2hvIHByZXBhcmVzIHRoaW5ncyBmb3IgTWljaGFl bCB0byBzZW5kIHRvIElBTkEsIGFuZCAKb2NjYXNpb25hbGx5IHRoZSBvbmUgd2hvIHNlbmRzIHRo ZW0sIEkgZG9uJ3Qgc3VwcG9ydCB0aGlzLiAgU3VycHJpc2VkPyAKV2hpbGUgaXQgbWlnaHQgYmUg YSBnb29kIGlkZWEgYW5kIHNhdmUgdXMgc29tZSB3b3JrLCBpdCB3b3VsZCBiZSBhIApub24tdHJp dmlhbCBjaGFuZ2UgaW4gcHJvY2VkdXJlLCBhbmQgbm93IHRoYXQgd2UncmUgaW4gV0cgTGFzdCBD YWxsIEkgCnRoaW5rIHRoZSBwYWluIGFuZCBkZWxheSBvZiBkZWJhdGluZyBzdWNoIGEgY2hhbmdl IGlzIGdyZWF0ZXIgdGhhbiB0aGUgCnBvdGVudGlhbCBiZW5lZml0LiAgTG9vayBob3cgbXVjaCB3 ZSBhcmd1ZWQgb3ZlciB3aGV0aGVyIElBTkEgY291bGQgYmUgCnRydXN0ZWQgdG8gcHV0IFVURi04 IGNoYXJhY3RlcnMgaW50byB0aGUgUmVnaXN0cnkgY29ycmVjdGx5LgoKLS0KRG91ZyBFd2VsbCAg KiAgRnVsbGVydG9uLCBDYWxpZm9ybmlhLCBVU0EgICogIFJGQyA0NjQ1ICAqICBVVE4gIzE0Cmh0 dHA6Ly93d3cuZXdlbGxpYy5vcmcKaHR0cDovL3d3dzEuaWV0Zi5vcmcvaHRtbC5jaGFydGVycy9s dHJ1LWNoYXJ0ZXIuaHRtbApodHRwOi8vd3d3LmFsdmVzdHJhbmQubm8vbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5m by9pZXRmLWxhbmd1YWdlcyAgy4YKCl9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fCkx0cnUgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0Ckx0cnVAaWV0Zi5vcmcKaHR0cDovL3d3dy5p ZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL2x0cnUK From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Sat Feb 23 19:52:44 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AD2A3A6B6D; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 19:52:44 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.299 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.299 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.138, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YAefZT9MI6j8; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 19:52:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B06B3A68D1; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 19:52:43 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E52B53A68AC for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 19:52:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id m1-qIG6rFXfo for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 19:52:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from mta9.adelphia.net (mta9.adelphia.net [68.168.78.199]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E73033A68A4 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 19:52:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from DGBP7M81 ([76.167.184.182]) by mta9.adelphia.net (InterMail vM.6.01.05.02 201-2131-123-102-20050715) with SMTP id <20080224035235.RLLQ10598.mta9.adelphia.net@DGBP7M81> for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 22:52:35 -0500 Message-ID: <001301c87698$b125cc10$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> From: "Doug Ewell" To: "LTRU Working Group" References: Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 19:52:35 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 Subject: Re: [Ltru] Registration Forms; have we made it clear which are archived X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org UmFuZHkgUHJlc3VobiA8cmFuZHkgdW5kZXJzY29yZSBwcmVzdWhuIGF0IG1pbmRzcHJpbmcgZG90 IGNvbT4gd3JvdGU6Cgo+IElmIGZvbGtzIHRoaW5nIHRoYXQgSVNPIGNoYW5nZXMgYXJlIHNvIGZy ZXF1ZW50IHRoYXQgdGhpcyBidXN5IHdvcmsgaXMgCj4gdHJ1bHkgb25lcm91cywKCkkgdGhpbmsg aXQncyBtb3JlIHBvaW50bGVzcyB0aGFuIG9uZXJvdXMuCgo+IEkgdGhpbmsgSUFOQSBjb3VsZCBz YXRpc2Z5IHRoZSBzcGlyaXQgb2YgdGhlIHJlcXVpcmVtZW50IGJ5IHNpbXBseSAKPiBhcmNoaXZp bmcgdGhlIHJlbGV2YW50IGVtYWlsIG1lc3NhZ2UgaW4gdGhvc2UgY2FzZXMuCgorMS4gIEluIGZh Y3QsIGZvciBjb25zaXN0ZW5jeSwgdGhleSBjb3VsZCBhcmNoaXZlIGFsbCBvZiB0aGUgTEFOR1VB R0UgClNVQlRBRyBNT0RJRklDQVRJT04gZS1tYWlscyB3ZSBzZW5kIHRoZW0sIGZvciBhbGwgY2hh bmdlcywgYW5kICphbHNvKiAKYXJjaGl2ZSB0aGUgcmVnaXN0cmF0aW9uIGZvcm1zIGZvciBjaGFu Z2VzIG9yaWdpbmF0aW5nIHdpdGggaW5kaXZpZHVhbCAKcHJvcG9zYWxzLgoKLS0KRG91ZyBFd2Vs bCAgKiAgRnVsbGVydG9uLCBDYWxpZm9ybmlhLCBVU0EgICogIFJGQyA0NjQ1ICAqICBVVE4gIzE0 Cmh0dHA6Ly93d3cuZXdlbGxpYy5vcmcKaHR0cDovL3d3dzEuaWV0Zi5vcmcvaHRtbC5jaGFydGVy cy9sdHJ1LWNoYXJ0ZXIuaHRtbApodHRwOi8vd3d3LmFsdmVzdHJhbmQubm8vbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0 aW5mby9pZXRmLWxhbmd1YWdlcyAgy4YKCl9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fCkx0cnUgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0Ckx0cnVAaWV0Zi5vcmcKaHR0cDovL3d3 dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL2x0cnUK From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Sat Feb 23 19:57:45 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 959C328C171; 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Sat, 23 Feb 2008 19:57:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from mta13.adelphia.net (mta13.mail.adelphia.net [68.168.78.44]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF8EA3A68A4 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 19:57:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from DGBP7M81 ([76.167.184.182]) by mta13.adelphia.net (InterMail vM.6.01.05.02 201-2131-123-102-20050715) with SMTP id <20080224035737.KRFX9254.mta13.adelphia.net@DGBP7M81>; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 22:57:37 -0500 Message-ID: <001901c87699$64f08fa0$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> From: "Doug Ewell" To: "LTRU Working Group" Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 19:57:36 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 Subject: Re: [Ltru] Updating Preferred-Value: field X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org TWFyayBEYXZpcyA8bWFyayBkb3QgZGF2aXMgYXQgaWN1IGRhc2ggcHJvamVjdCBkb3Qgb3JnPiB3 cm90ZToKCj4gSSBmaW5kIGFueSBjaG9pY2UgYnV0IEEgdG8gYmUgYml6YXJyZS4gV2h5IHNob3Vs ZCB0aGUgcHJlZXhpc3RhbmNlIG9mIAo+IEJVIC0tIHdpdGggdGhlIHNhbWUgbWVhbmluZyEgLS0g Y2F1c2UgdXMgdG8gZG8gc29tZXRoaW5nIGRpZmZlcmVudCAKPiB3aXRoIE1NIHRoYW4gd2UgZG8g d2l0aCBVUz8KPgo+IFdlIG5lZWQgdG8gbWFrZSB0aGUgYXBwcm9wcmlhdGUgY2hhbmdlcyB0byBk byB0aGUgZXhwZWN0ZWQsIHJlYXNvbmFibGUgCj4gdGhpbmcuCgpUaGVuIHdoeSBkaWQgd2UgbWFr ZSB0aGUgb3JpZ2luYWwgY2hvaWNlIHRoYXQgd2UgbWFkZT8gIEknbSBub3Qgb3Bwb3NlZCAKdG8g ZG9pbmcgdGhlIGV4cGVjdGVkLCByZWFzb25hYmxlIHRoaW5nLCBidXQgaXQgc2VlbXMgdG8gbWUg dGhhdCB3ZSAKc2hvdWxkIGF0IGxlYXN0IGludmVzdGlnYXRlICp3aHkqIHdlIG1hZGUgdGhhdCBk ZWNpc2lvbiBiZWZvcmUgZ29pbmcgCmFoZWFkIGFuZCBvdmVydHVybmluZyBpdC4gIEkgZG9uJ3Qg dGhpbmsgdGhlIGFuc3dlciB3aWxsIGJlICJiZWNhdXNlIHdlIAp3ZXJlIGNsdWVsZXNzIGFuZCBo YWQgb3VyIGhlYWRzIGluIHRoZSBzYW5kLiIKCi0tCkRvdWcgRXdlbGwgICogIEZ1bGxlcnRvbiwg Q2FsaWZvcm5pYSwgVVNBICAqICBSRkMgNDY0NSAgKiAgVVROICMxNApodHRwOi8vd3d3LmV3ZWxs aWMub3JnCmh0dHA6Ly93d3cxLmlldGYub3JnL2h0bWwuY2hhcnRlcnMvbHRydS1jaGFydGVyLmh0 bWwKaHR0cDovL3d3dy5hbHZlc3RyYW5kLm5vL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vaWV0Zi1sYW5ndWFn ZXMgIMuGCgpfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXwpM dHJ1IG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdApMdHJ1QGlldGYub3JnCmh0dHA6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1h bi9saXN0aW5mby9sdHJ1Cg== From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Sat Feb 23 20:29:22 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 435743A6BA2; 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Sat, 23 Feb 2008 20:29:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.68]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B4ED3A6A7E for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 20:29:19 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=mindspring.com; b=uGA/YaUqtb4MgmKkwOoxaDHrydvX40x2D2G3slcs9Fa9M6iW5SA1fwZKo4CZOMvN; h=Received:Message-ID:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [66.167.204.134] (helo=oemcomputer) by elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1JT8UE-0007Hl-BV for ltru@ietf.org; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 23:29:14 -0500 Message-ID: <000c01c8769d$f6c1d3e0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> From: "Randy Presuhn" To: References: <006001c87667$432a64e0$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> <003f01c8767f$9bf66700$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> <20080224012631.GA29957@mercury.ccil.org> Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 20:30:18 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-ELNK-Trace: 4488c18417c9426da92b9037bc8bcf44d4c20f6b8d69d8885d2a9c731cc891178c4ac4ae596361a4865d6002425b5074350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 66.167.204.134 Subject: Re: [Ltru] The case against adding 'UK' X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Hi - > From: "John Cowan" > To: "Randy Presuhn" > Cc: > Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2008 5:26 PM > Subject: Re: [Ltru] The case against adding 'UK' > > Randy Presuhn scripsit: > > > John Cowan: add it (two proposals offered) > > I'm opposed to adding it. I just wrote the text. ... Thanks for the clarification. This makes it even clearer that there is not a consensus to add 'UK' Randy _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Sat Feb 23 20:58:17 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACE2A3A6B9F; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 20:58:17 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.239 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.239 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.421, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=0.619, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id plkF3Bf1RZqC; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 20:58:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D16E73A68AC; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 20:58:16 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6E703A67F4 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 20:58:15 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id abanuZET+05h for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 20:58:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.69]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 063C93A6B06 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 20:58:15 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=mindspring.com; b=rnDevxcw3EPYVKmDWc0rfRRVk22bvTp2Tc7WI53y4ZhVeJgZjwWQyx4s+zSiKCk9; h=Received:Message-ID:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [66.167.204.134] (helo=oemcomputer) by elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1JT8wD-0006yi-Sm for ltru@ietf.org; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 23:58:10 -0500 Message-ID: <00bc01c876a2$010455e0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> From: "Randy Presuhn" To: "LTRU Working Group" References: <004101c87655$6a297a20$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> <007b01c87682$46a67800$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> <30b660a20802231735pd0977bfq557f88a8068626b3@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 20:59:14 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-ELNK-Trace: 4488c18417c9426da92b9037bc8bcf44d4c20f6b8d69d8885d2a9c731cc89117c8971dc85f44b9c849e5b5fc3c8eb5a4350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 66.167.204.134 Subject: Re: [Ltru] Updating Preferred-Value: field X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Hi - As a technical contributor... > From: "Mark Davis" > To: "Randy Presuhn" > Cc: "LTRU Working Group" > Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2008 5:35 PM > Subject: Re: [Ltru] Updating Preferred-Value: field > > Let's suppose we have in 2008 the following in the registry, where => > indicates a Preferred-Value. > > BU > MM => BU > US > > Let's suppose that ISO in 2010 changes US to UX and MM to BU. We will > clearly make the change of US to UX. No, we shouldn't. Section 3.4 (10) (D): D. For ISO 3166 codes, if the newly assigned code's meaning is associated with the same UN M.49 code as another 'region' subtag, then the existing region subtag remains as the preferred value for that region and no new entry is created. A comment MAY be added to the existing region subtag indicating the relationship to the new ISO 3166 code. > For BU/MM we have three choices: > > A. Switch back to BU. No, we shouldn't. Section 3.4 (10) (D): D. For ISO 3166 codes, if the newly assigned code's meaning is associated with the same UN M.49 code as another 'region' subtag, then the existing region subtag remains as the preferred value for that region and no new entry is created. A comment MAY be added to the existing region subtag indicating the relationship to the new ISO 3166 code. ... > B. Keep MM. This is correct. > C. Use the UN M.49 code (say, 666). No, see section 2.2.4 (3) D: D. UN numeric codes for countries or areas for which there is an associated ISO 3166 alpha-2 code in the registry MUST NOT be entered into the registry and MUST NOT be used to form language tags. Note that the ISO 3166-based subtag in the registry MUST actually be associated with the UN M.49 code in question ... > I find any choice but A to be bizarre. Why should the preexistance of BU -- > with the same meaning! -- cause us to do something different with MM than we > do with US? ... The premise, that US -> UX would be possible, is incorrect. Randy _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Sat Feb 23 21:15:45 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D840F3A6A17; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 21:15:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.893 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.893 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.292, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, HTML_MESSAGE=1, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yFkARMdmkN6M; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 21:15:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7450E28C10D; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 21:15:43 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4ED393A68D3 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 21:15:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4yqRYCOXToB6 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 21:15:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from wf-out-1314.google.com (wf-out-1314.google.com [209.85.200.168]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6558528C299 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 21:15:41 -0800 (PST) Received: by wf-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 25so572435wfa.31 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 21:15:36 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references:x-google-sender-auth; bh=MU1OU1xJ29etwj98fwOl/nM/WXyucdzpNqR/EeNVXCM=; b=j+sjKJmnL6JiCzxaFyW9UQpKXNLCuwtvVE34uPTeeGDAviPlcybmrxu/wni4WrE6AoPwKcakK0ckhhg1pEldt8A59So6SKl3fplzOHnkUmgErkVHXb1FYx3vDAcSPy9aMiqz01KW9lkd+4JZYj4hHmPr5mY+ploEgh88zJd8DWE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references:x-google-sender-auth; b=iWQ8kEQ1c4VsCuUH9RYspxlXdb6sNvFS67SwKIfRkW1O4hD1NpvjTjC5A7xm3px/7Yuut3HwhWxXB8EwB1MJqLTFagub3DqSz9w63tPlMs0MA6PsVvPmKE7Uic6kyBke0YtfcZ/eS4QDiM1FXMBaIod7/rRwTBoiCVveFa4wDuA= Received: by 10.143.16.9 with SMTP id t9mr891427wfi.107.1203830136473; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 21:15:36 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.143.174.8 with HTTP; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 21:15:36 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <30b660a20802232115p5906c75an8572574945dc6262@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 21:15:36 -0800 From: "Mark Davis" To: "Randy Presuhn" In-Reply-To: <003f01c8767f$9bf66700$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <006001c87667$432a64e0$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> <003f01c8767f$9bf66700$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 1eae066a3c39539a Cc: LTRU Working Group Subject: Re: [Ltru] The case against adding 'UK' X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1971183606==" Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org --===============1971183606== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_5165_30358055.1203830136498" ------=_Part_5165_30358055.1203830136498 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I'm a 'don't care', not a 'don't add' Mark On Sat, Feb 23, 2008 at 4:53 PM, Randy Presuhn wrote: > Hi - > > > From: "Doug Ewell" > > To: "LTRU Working Group" > > Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2008 1:58 PM > > Subject: Re: [Ltru] The case against adding 'UK' > > > > Was there a final decision on the question of adding 'UK' to the 4645bis > > Registry? > ... > > As a technical contributor... while I have some sympathy for having a > standardized way of dealing with garbage tags like en-UK, I ultimately > thank it's better to *not* add UK, leaving things as they are. > > As co-chair: > > Here's my tally: > > Mark Davis: don't add > Doug Ewell: don't add > Addison Phillips: don't add > Randy: don't add > > John Cowan: add it (two proposals offered) > Kent Karlsson: add it (one proposal) > Debbie Garside: add it (Kent's proposal) > Peter Constable: add it (Kent's proposal) > > This isn't a consensus for change, not even a rough one. :-) > The text should stay as it is. > > Randy > > _______________________________________________ > Ltru mailing list > Ltru@ietf.org > http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru > -- Mark ------=_Part_5165_30358055.1203830136498 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I'm a 'don't care', not a 'don't add'

Mark

On Sat, Feb 23, 2008 at 4:53 PM, Randy Presuhn <randy_presuhn@mindspring.com> wrote:
Hi -

> From: "Doug Ewell" <dewell@roadrunner.com>
> To: "LTRU Working Group" <ltru@ietf.org>
> Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2008 1:58 PM
> Subject: Re: [Ltru] The case against adding 'UK'
>
> Was there a final decision on the question of adding 'UK' to the 4645bis
> Registry?
...

As a technical contributor... while I have some sympathy for having a
standardized way of dealing with garbage tags like en-UK, I ultimately
thank it's better to *not* add UK, leaving things as they are.

As co-chair:

Here's my tally:

Mark Davis: don't add
Doug Ewell: don't add
Addison Phillips: don't add
Randy: don't add

John Cowan: add it (two proposals offered)
Kent Karlsson: add it (one proposal)
Debbie Garside: add it (Kent's proposal)
Peter Constable: add it (Kent's proposal)

This isn't a consensus for change, not even a rough one.  :-)
The text should stay as it is.

Randy

_______________________________________________
Ltru mailing list
Ltru@ietf.org
http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru



--
Mark ------=_Part_5165_30358055.1203830136498-- --===============1971183606== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru --===============1971183606==-- From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Sat Feb 23 21:18:55 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E443B28C1D8; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 21:18:55 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.575 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.575 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.610, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, HTML_MESSAGE=1, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SjnVtDpDKlVS; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 21:18:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48FA83A68D3; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 21:18:54 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7CBA3A68AC for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 21:18:51 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id W1AoQYCYLffi for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 21:18:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from wx-out-0506.google.com (wx-out-0506.google.com [66.249.82.231]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3701528C1D0 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 21:17:18 -0800 (PST) Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id s8so985986wxc.31 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 21:17:14 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references:x-google-sender-auth; bh=5Ez8bV2Ch2fB5GQndHofr6Rfjqn7/Y2Z12d/vk2V+vI=; b=PSyNEzjVPuP7ug/wwF1lTGdKC9YbN1Q3ROMS6Tikt0eYR0VXvUAuCXGRmXe8OC8Iur5YGW1pNsBUFWj1YYQE6vjxusL7wlS/yFcrh87bfSLlWb6AZ9u1m+XdPi7v7hV0EXX2i+M9Vwhg6Xlwg5j2bfwy32SLpj+w/OcJXzYh3bo= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references:x-google-sender-auth; b=n1zT/eZ4/jFpSiYqes0c2kare6PNliRi7Ycoyq4zadNGPunCa59whbreXG+3OLncwYWK8ZfJQrleoGCrVPsHbgLr4MA8M4iCv7Og+VXRhQ0hXN8Bb5EMYVeGzyC3xMaa8xRw3Sk8LuYMcksPZkYu7OUaocfmS3j8fzcOjchnvgk= Received: by 10.142.162.5 with SMTP id k5mr889375wfe.171.1203830233130; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 21:17:13 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.143.174.8 with HTTP; Sat, 23 Feb 2008 21:17:13 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <30b660a20802232117p6138f3c9y53a286251cb85f05@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 21:17:13 -0800 From: "Mark Davis" To: "Randy Presuhn" In-Reply-To: <00bc01c876a2$010455e0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <004101c87655$6a297a20$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> <007b01c87682$46a67800$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> <30b660a20802231735pd0977bfq557f88a8068626b3@mail.gmail.com> <00bc01c876a2$010455e0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 329227f52292bb28 Cc: LTRU Working Group Subject: Re: [Ltru] Updating Preferred-Value: field X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1959929204==" Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org --===============1959929204== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_5167_11380597.1203830233176" ------=_Part_5167_11380597.1203830233176 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Those are good points. Let me look the text over in more detail. Mark On Sat, Feb 23, 2008 at 8:59 PM, Randy Presuhn wrote: > Hi - > > As a technical contributor... > > > From: "Mark Davis" > > To: "Randy Presuhn" > > Cc: "LTRU Working Group" > > Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2008 5:35 PM > > Subject: Re: [Ltru] Updating Preferred-Value: field > > > > Let's suppose we have in 2008 the following in the registry, where => > > indicates a Preferred-Value. > > > > BU > > MM => BU > > US > > > > Let's suppose that ISO in 2010 changes US to UX and MM to BU. We will > > clearly make the change of US to UX. > > No, we shouldn't. Section 3.4 (10) (D): > > D. For ISO 3166 codes, if the newly assigned code's meaning is > associated with the same UN M.49 code as another 'region' > subtag, then the existing region subtag remains as the > preferred value for that region and no new entry is created. > A comment MAY be added to the existing region subtag > indicating the relationship to the new ISO 3166 code. > > > For BU/MM we have three choices: > > > > A. Switch back to BU. > > > No, we shouldn't. Section 3.4 (10) (D): > > D. For ISO 3166 codes, if the newly assigned code's meaning is > associated with the same UN M.49 code as another 'region' > subtag, then the existing region subtag remains as the > preferred value for that region and no new entry is created. > A comment MAY be added to the existing region subtag > indicating the relationship to the new ISO 3166 code. > > ... > > B. Keep MM. > > This is correct. > > > C. Use the UN M.49 code (say, 666). > > No, see section 2.2.4 (3) D: > D. UN numeric codes for countries or areas for which there is an > associated ISO 3166 alpha-2 code in the registry MUST NOT be > entered into the registry and MUST NOT be used to form > language tags. Note that the ISO 3166-based subtag in the > registry MUST actually be associated with the UN M.49 code in > question > ... > > I find any choice but A to be bizarre. Why should the preexistance of BU > -- > > with the same meaning! -- cause us to do something different with MM > than we > > do with US? > ... > > The premise, that US -> UX would be possible, is incorrect. > > Randy > > _______________________________________________ > Ltru mailing list > Ltru@ietf.org > http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru > -- Mark ------=_Part_5167_11380597.1203830233176 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Those are good points. Let me look the text over in more detail.

Mark

On Sat, Feb 23, 2008 at 8:59 PM, Randy Presuhn <randy_presuhn@mindspring.com> wrote:
Hi -

As a technical contributor...

> From: "Mark Davis" <mark.davis@icu-project.org>
> To: "Randy Presuhn" <randy_presuhn@mindspring.com>
> Cc: "LTRU Working Group" <ltru@ietf.org>
> Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2008 5:35 PM
> Subject: Re: [Ltru] Updating Preferred-Value: field
>
> Let's suppose we have in 2008 the following in the registry, where =>
> indicates a Preferred-Value.
>
> BU
> MM => BU
> US
>
> Let's suppose that ISO in 2010 changes US to UX and MM to BU. We will
> clearly make the change of US to UX.

No, we shouldn't.  Section 3.4 (10) (D):

       D.  For ISO 3166 codes, if the newly assigned code's meaning is
           associated with the same UN M.49 code as another 'region'
           subtag, then the existing region subtag remains as the
           preferred value for that region and no new entry is created.
           A comment MAY be added to the existing region subtag
           indicating the relationship to the new ISO 3166 code.

> For BU/MM we have three choices:
>
> A. Switch back to BU.


No, we shouldn't.  Section 3.4 (10) (D):

       D.  For ISO 3166 codes, if the newly assigned code's meaning is
           associated with the same UN M.49 code as another 'region'
           subtag, then the existing region subtag remains as the
           preferred value for that region and no new entry is created.
           A comment MAY be added to the existing region subtag
           indicating the relationship to the new ISO 3166 code.

...
> B. Keep MM.

This is correct.

> C. Use the UN M.49 code (say, 666).

No, see section  2.2.4 (3) D:
      D.  UN numeric codes for countries or areas for which there is an
          associated ISO 3166 alpha-2 code in the registry MUST NOT be
          entered into the registry and MUST NOT be used to form
          language tags.  Note that the ISO 3166-based subtag in the
          registry MUST actually be associated with the UN M.49 code in
          question
...
> I find any choice but A to be bizarre. Why should the preexistance of BU --
> with the same meaning! -- cause us to do something different with MM than we
> do with US?
...

The premise, that US -> UX would be possible, is incorrect.

Randy

_______________________________________________
Ltru mailing list
Ltru@ietf.org
http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru



--
Mark ------=_Part_5167_11380597.1203830233176-- --===============1959929204== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru --===============1959929204==-- From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Sun Feb 24 00:17:17 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5E1C3A68D2; Sun, 24 Feb 2008 00:17:17 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.545 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.545 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.108, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hwQUqav2FThW; Sun, 24 Feb 2008 00:17:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DEA0B3A6835; Sun, 24 Feb 2008 00:16:47 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A51A23A6835 for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2008 00:16:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 828M5f8PbeqV for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2008 00:16:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.65]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDD893A67A7 for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2008 00:16:45 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=mindspring.com; b=ZTSEvhsCdBOa8Y4sMwNwBIeqZ4HJQKGypFm8QWa6S65UHpKHQAsjrIf9w1NbkTkn; h=Received:Message-ID:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [66.167.204.134] (helo=oemcomputer) by elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1JTC2K-0007SI-HN for ltru@ietf.org; Sun, 24 Feb 2008 03:16:40 -0500 Message-ID: <001501c876bd$bd4d10a0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> From: "Randy Presuhn" To: "LTRU Working Group" References: <006001c87667$432a64e0$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> <003f01c8767f$9bf66700$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> <30b660a20802232115p5906c75an8572574945dc6262@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2008 00:17:46 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-ELNK-Trace: 4488c18417c9426da92b9037bc8bcf44d4c20f6b8d69d8885d2a9c731cc89117c983e46317d82837ee84fd3f49c6b705350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 66.167.204.134 Subject: Re: [Ltru] The case against adding 'UK' X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Hi - As co-chair... > From: "Mark Davis" > To: "Randy Presuhn" > Cc: "LTRU Working Group" > Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2008 9:15 PM > Subject: Re: [Ltru] The case against adding 'UK' > > I'm a 'don't care', not a 'don't add' Ok, I guess I read too much into your earlier post to this thread where you said "The disadvantage is that it is one more deprecated tag to worry about. So I'm perfectly happy leaving it out." Still, we're a long way from having a consensus in support of the addition, so the conclusion is still, "don't add." Randy _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Sun Feb 24 11:09:15 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C56FC3A6C52; Sun, 24 Feb 2008 11:09:15 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.744 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.744 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.307, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Vk+kDFdhSp6q; Sun, 24 Feb 2008 11:09:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B61BB3A69D8; Sun, 24 Feb 2008 11:09:11 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 532533A6A57 for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2008 11:09:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AEuSAbKfromi for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2008 11:09:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from rsmtp1.corp.yahoo.com (rsmtp1.corp.yahoo.com [207.126.228.149]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 837373A69D8 for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2008 11:09:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.72.76.56] (snvvpn2-10-72-76-c56.corp.yahoo.com [10.72.76.56]) by rsmtp1.corp.yahoo.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/y.rout) with ESMTP id m1OJ90H7041621; Sun, 24 Feb 2008 11:09:01 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; s=serpent; d=yahoo-inc.com; c=nofws; q=dns; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject: references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=Ru1V6nPiaIBxVCiMQX5YyiIgipZewsY+Mbh7mtpl6WFjwRo1TUA4alfNGuLTuQeX Message-ID: <47C1C0CC.8030009@yahoo-inc.com> Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2008 11:09:00 -0800 From: Addison Phillips User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Doug Ewell References: <005201c87666$16356940$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> <47C0BD5A.70101@yahoo-inc.com> <001101c87697$f775f060$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> In-Reply-To: <001101c87697$f775f060$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> Cc: LTRU Working Group Subject: Re: [Ltru] Registration Forms; have we made it clear which are archived X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Doug Ewell wrote: > or the need to formally > reconfirm the Reviewer when 4646bis is published > (which we never did for 4646 or 3066). Actually, that's not true. There was "reconfirmation" (prehaps that is too strong a word) of Michael as the reviewer at least in the 3066->4646 changeover. > > I don't see a problem with saying: > > 1. There are two types of subtags, those that come from individual > requests and those that come from ISO or UN standards. You can tell > which are which from the syntax; you don't even need to look at the > Registry. This point is superfluous, as we'll see in a second. > > 2. New subtags and changes that come into being from individual > requests have registration forms; those that come from ISO or UN > standards do not. There are two types of *registration*. There are registrations required by rule and there are registrations by request. The latter includes a process for registering changes to ISO-assigned codes, which has actually been used. These changes appear in the archive. Registrations by rule do not. > >> Good point: should we relax the restriction on the LSR sending them as >> a batch to IANA? > > Speaking as the one who prepares things for Michael to send to IANA, and > occasionally the one who sends them, I don't support this. Surprised? > While it might be a good idea and save us some work, it would be a > non-trivial change in procedure, and now that we're in WG Last Call I > think the pain and delay of debating such a change is greater than the > potential benefit. Look how much we argued over whether IANA could be > trusted to put UTF-8 characters into the Registry correctly. > Hmm... I don't think it would be that big a change. In fact, it is limited to a single sentence in Section 3.3, which currently reads: -- Each individual subtag affected by a change MUST be sent to the ietf-languages list with its own registration form and in a separate message. -- ... to which we would add: -- Additions of new records MAY be batched together for submission to IANA as a set. -- Addison -- Addison Phillips Globalization Architect -- Yahoo! Inc. Chair -- W3C Internationalization Core WG Internationalization is an architecture. It is not a feature. _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Sun Feb 24 20:13:54 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 907373A6AD5; Sun, 24 Feb 2008 20:13:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.065 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.065 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.098, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, J_CHICKENPOX_23=0.6, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6+-YLWdGhXsU; Sun, 24 Feb 2008 20:13:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AAC7828C26D; Sun, 24 Feb 2008 20:13:53 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D4FD3A6875 for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2008 20:13:52 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9-kMZWGfpwJm for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2008 20:13:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from mta13.adelphia.net (mta13.mail.adelphia.net [68.168.78.44]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35F7028C26D for ; Sun, 24 Feb 2008 20:13:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from DGBP7M81 ([76.167.184.182]) by mta13.adelphia.net (InterMail vM.6.01.05.02 201-2131-123-102-20050715) with SMTP id <20080225041345.TUZD9254.mta13.adelphia.net@DGBP7M81>; Sun, 24 Feb 2008 23:13:45 -0500 Message-ID: <003401c87764$d08c9c10$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> From: "Doug Ewell" To: "LTRU Working Group" References: <005201c87666$16356940$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> <47C0BD5A.70101@yahoo-inc.com> <001101c87697$f775f060$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> <47C1C0CC.8030009@yahoo-inc.com> Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2008 20:13:44 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 Cc: Michael Everson Subject: Re: [Ltru] Registration Forms; have we made it clear which are archived X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org QWRkaXNvbiBQaGlsbGlwcyA8YWRkaXNvbiBhdCB5YWhvbyBkYXNoIGluYyBkb3QgY29tPiB3cm90 ZToKCj4+IG9yIHRoZSBuZWVkIHRvIGZvcm1hbGx5IHJlY29uZmlybSB0aGUgUmV2aWV3ZXIgd2hl biA0NjQ2YmlzIGlzIAo+PiBwdWJsaXNoZWQgKHdoaWNoIHdlIG5ldmVyIGRpZCBmb3IgNDY0NiBv ciAzMDY2KS4KPgo+IEFjdHVhbGx5LCB0aGF0J3Mgbm90IHRydWUuIFRoZXJlIHdhcyAicmVjb25m aXJtYXRpb24iIChwcmVoYXBzIHRoYXQgaXMgCj4gdG9vIHN0cm9uZyBhIHdvcmQpIG9mIE1pY2hh ZWwgYXMgdGhlIHJldmlld2VyIGF0IGxlYXN0IGluIHRoZSAKPiAzMDY2LT40NjQ2IGNoYW5nZW92 ZXIuCgpUcnVlLCBJRVRGIGRpZCBjb25maXJtIE1pY2hhZWwgaW4gdGhlIHBvc2l0aW9uIG9mIExh bmd1YWdlIFN1YnRhZyAKUmV2aWV3ZXIsIGluIHRoZWlyIHJlc3BvbnNlIHRvIG9uZSBvZiB0aGUg bWFueSBhcHBlYWxzIGFnYWluc3QgNDY0Ni4gClRoZXkgd2VyZSBuZXZlciBhc2tlZCB0byBzb2xp Y2l0IG5vbWluZWVzIGFuZXcsIGhvd2V2ZXIsIGFzIHRoZXkgd2lsbCBiZSAKbm93LgoKPj4gMi4g IE5ldyBzdWJ0YWdzIGFuZCBjaGFuZ2VzIHRoYXQgY29tZSBpbnRvIGJlaW5nIGZyb20gaW5kaXZp ZHVhbCAKPj4gcmVxdWVzdHMgaGF2ZSByZWdpc3RyYXRpb24gZm9ybXM7IHRob3NlIHRoYXQgY29t ZSBmcm9tIElTTyBvciBVTiAKPj4gc3RhbmRhcmRzIGRvIG5vdC4KPgo+IFRoZXJlIGFyZSB0d28g dHlwZXMgb2YgKnJlZ2lzdHJhdGlvbiouIFRoZXJlIGFyZSByZWdpc3RyYXRpb25zIAo+IHJlcXVp cmVkIGJ5IHJ1bGUgYW5kIHRoZXJlIGFyZSByZWdpc3RyYXRpb25zIGJ5IHJlcXVlc3QuIFRoZSBs YXR0ZXIgCj4gaW5jbHVkZXMgYSBwcm9jZXNzIGZvciByZWdpc3RlcmluZyBjaGFuZ2VzIHRvIElT Ty1hc3NpZ25lZCBjb2RlcywgCj4gd2hpY2ggaGFzIGFjdHVhbGx5IGJlZW4gdXNlZC4gVGhlc2Ug Y2hhbmdlcyBhcHBlYXIgaW4gdGhlIGFyY2hpdmUuIAo+IFJlZ2lzdHJhdGlvbnMgYnkgcnVsZSBk byBub3QuCgpJJ20gc3VyZSB0aGVyZSBpcyBhbiBpbXBvcnRhbnQgZGlzdGluY3Rpb24gYmV0d2Vl biBteSBkZXNjcmlwdGlvbiBvZiB0aGUgCnNpdHVhdGlvbiBhbmQgQWRkaXNvbidzLCBhbmQgZnVy dGhlcm1vcmUgSSdtIHN1cmUgQWRkaXNvbidzIGRlc2NyaXB0aW9uIAppcyBiZXR0ZXIuICBJJ20g bm90IHN1cmUgdGhlIGRpZmZlcmVuY2UgbWF0dGVycyBpbiB0aGlzIGNvbnRleHQuICBVbmRlciAK NDY0NiwgcmVnaXN0cmF0aW9uIGZvcm1zIGZvciAicmVnaXN0cmF0aW9ucyBieSBydWxlIiBkbyBu b3QgYXBwZWFyIGluIAp0aGUgYXJjaGl2ZSwgYmVjYXVzZSB0aGVyZSBhcmUgbm8gc3VjaCBmb3Jt cy4gIFVuZGVyIGRyYWZ0LTQ2NDZiaXMsIHRoZXkgCmRvIGV4aXN0IGFuZCBhcmUgYXJjaGl2ZWQu Cgo+IEhtbS4uLiBJIGRvbid0IHRoaW5rIGl0IHdvdWxkIGJlIHRoYXQgYmlnIGEgY2hhbmdlLiBJ biBmYWN0LCBpdCBpcyAKPiBsaW1pdGVkIHRvIGEgc2luZ2xlIHNlbnRlbmNlIGluIFNlY3Rpb24g My4zLCB3aGljaCBjdXJyZW50bHkgcmVhZHM6Cj4KPiAtLQo+IEVhY2ggaW5kaXZpZHVhbCBzdWJ0 YWcgYWZmZWN0ZWQgYnkgYSBjaGFuZ2UgTVVTVCBiZSBzZW50IHRvIHRoZSAKPiBpZXRmLWxhbmd1 YWdlcyBsaXN0IHdpdGggaXRzIG93biByZWdpc3RyYXRpb24gZm9ybSBhbmQgaW4gYSBzZXBhcmF0 ZSAKPiBtZXNzYWdlLgo+IC0tCj4KPiAuLi4gdG8gd2hpY2ggd2Ugd291bGQgYWRkOgo+Cj4gLS0K PiBBZGRpdGlvbnMgb2YgbmV3IHJlY29yZHMgTUFZIGJlIGJhdGNoZWQgdG9nZXRoZXIgZm9yIHN1 Ym1pc3Npb24gdG8gCj4gSUFOQSBhcyBhIHNldC4KPiAtLQoKSWYgdGhhdCBpcyBhbGwgd2UgbmVl ZCB0byBzYXksIGFuZCB0aGVyZSBpcyBubyAqcmVxdWlyZW1lbnQqIHRvIGNoYW5nZSAKdGhpbmdz LCBhbmQgbm9ib2R5IGZlZWxzIHRoZSBuZWVkIHRvIGZpbmUtdHVuZSB0aGlzIHByb3Zpc2lvbiB0 byBkZWF0aCwgCnRoZW4gSSBoYXZlIG5vIHByb2JsZW0gd2l0aCBpdCwgIEFnYWluLCBjYydpbmcg TWljaGFlbCB0byBtYWtlIHN1cmUgaGUgCnNlZXMgaXQuCgotLQpEb3VnIEV3ZWxsICAqICBGdWxs ZXJ0b24sIENhbGlmb3JuaWEsIFVTQSAgKiAgUkZDIDQ2NDUgICogIFVUTiAjMTQKaHR0cDovL3d3 dy5ld2VsbGljLm9yZwpodHRwOi8vd3d3MS5pZXRmLm9yZy9odG1sLmNoYXJ0ZXJzL2x0cnUtY2hh cnRlci5odG1sCmh0dHA6Ly93d3cuYWx2ZXN0cmFuZC5uby9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL2lldGYt bGFuZ3VhZ2VzICDLhgoKX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX18KTHRydSBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QKTHRydUBpZXRmLm9yZwpodHRwOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3Jn L21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vbHRydQo= From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Mon Feb 25 00:33:13 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A926128C318; Mon, 25 Feb 2008 00:33:13 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.953 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.953 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.866, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JcXiwKb0OjUl; Mon, 25 Feb 2008 00:32:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F5033A6C47; Mon, 25 Feb 2008 00:32:36 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35A1028C25F for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2008 00:32:34 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZiP-PBZi9KUp for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2008 00:32:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx2.nic.fr (mx2.nic.fr [192.134.4.11]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84F5D3A6ACB for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2008 00:31:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx2.nic.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mx2.nic.fr (Postfix) with SMTP id 8B7121C0105; Mon, 25 Feb 2008 09:31:40 +0100 (CET) Received: from relay2.nic.fr (relay2.nic.fr [192.134.4.163]) by mx2.nic.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 869D91C00FA; Mon, 25 Feb 2008 09:31:40 +0100 (CET) Received: from bortzmeyer.nic.fr (batilda.nic.fr [192.134.4.69]) by relay2.nic.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8388E58ECC8; Mon, 25 Feb 2008 09:31:40 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 09:31:40 +0100 From: Stephane Bortzmeyer To: Mark Davis Message-ID: <20080225083140.GA30210@nic.fr> References: <004301c87656$ce7a0f70$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> <30b660a20802231212h2a0184b4q5d25f0d4aacc2512@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <30b660a20802231212h2a0184b4q5d25f0d4aacc2512@mail.gmail.com> X-Operating-System: Debian GNU/Linux 4.0 X-Kernel: Linux 2.6.18-6-686 i686 Organization: NIC France X-URL: http://www.nic.fr/ User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11) Cc: LTRU Working Group Subject: [Ltru] Keep Comments for identification, not for background (Was: Proposed edits (davis) X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org On Sat, Feb 23, 2008 at 12:12:03PM -0800, Mark Davis wrote a message of 6 lines which said: > The primary reason for comments are for subtag identification: to > helpdistinguish the subtag from others with which it might be > confused. Inparticular,large amounts of information about the use, > history, or generalbackground of a subtag are frowned upon: these > generally belong andare encouraged in registration requests, but do > not belong in theregistry record proper. So, to be sure I'm understand, a Comment such as this one (which was actually proposed on ietf-languages: Subtag: gsw Type: language Description: Swiss German Description: Alemannic Comment: gsw-FR is the recommended way to tag Alsatian would be OK? (It seems so but I want to be sure I understand your proposal before writing +1) _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Mon Feb 25 08:12:06 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78B393A6D29; Mon, 25 Feb 2008 08:12:06 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.744 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.744 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.307, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id i2bV1r24Kw-N; Mon, 25 Feb 2008 08:12:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4F0B28C281; Mon, 25 Feb 2008 08:07:05 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D1383A6D3D for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2008 08:07:05 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uj1OAPbrvj9D for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2008 08:07:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from rsmtp2.corp.yahoo.com (rsmtp2.corp.yahoo.com [207.126.228.150]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78E5128C62A for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2008 08:05:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.72.76.105] (snvvpn2-10-72-76-c105.corp.yahoo.com [10.72.76.105]) by rsmtp2.corp.yahoo.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/y.rout) with ESMTP id m1PG5P3q052011 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2008 08:05:28 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; s=serpent; d=yahoo-inc.com; c=nofws; q=dns; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject: content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=oBHSAXuGCAGth52E5hmVKC2ODWlV1L7H2RB2cxoSaPSbuW1q0XW+rUBRZORxrYmb Message-ID: <47C2E745.90300@yahoo-inc.com> Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 08:05:25 -0800 From: Addison Phillips User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "'LTRU Working Group'" Subject: [Ltru] typo in "language subtag reviewer" X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Off-list, someone pointed out to me a typo in Section 3.2 (Language Subtag Reviewer). In correcting it, I made a couple of minor textual adjustments, which are editorial in nature. The text read: -- Qualified candidates should be familiar with BCP 47 and its requirements; be willing to fairly, responsively, and judiciously administer the registration process; and be suitably informed about the issues of language identification so that they can draw upon and assess the claim and contributions of language experts and subtag requesters. -- And I changed it to read: -- Qualified candidates should be familiar with BCP 47 and its requirements; be willing to fairly, responsively, and judiciously administer the registration process; and be suitably informed about the issues of language identification so that the reviewer can assess the claims and draw upon the contributions of language experts and subtag requesters. -- The sentence that follows also contained a typo--I pluralized the word "decision". Best Regards, Addison -- Addison Phillips Globalization Architect -- Yahoo! Inc. Chair -- W3C Internationalization Core WG Internationalization is an architecture. It is not a feature. _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Mon Feb 25 08:16:45 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7345B28C594; Mon, 25 Feb 2008 08:16:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.89 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.89 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.295, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, HTML_MESSAGE=1, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id azp8ABP8Dx6t; Mon, 25 Feb 2008 08:16:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 632EC28C6A9; Mon, 25 Feb 2008 08:16:25 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFDC428C594 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2008 08:16:24 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RagXWaGo8naZ for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2008 08:16:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from gv-out-0910.google.com (gv-out-0910.google.com [216.239.58.187]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1312E3A6C8B for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2008 08:16:00 -0800 (PST) Received: by gv-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id i36so515235gve.15 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2008 08:15:54 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references:x-google-sender-auth; bh=GAoDJ/VNjxeMWI5RL5lhkVTQvA0L2wi0fhmdds48cDU=; b=pgtHp/o3zgCjDaElFDh0gZsi+lilxzOKAeAhVE1LCIk/ZHbbPvKq9kKhg18XWZ0rJy3prg7HtSqZExlzNEt9+GK67IgM0InTKlvR0GTuC3UUskJUrf1MTZNdy3Yp0ik41hNX4tBz43VuIrweiQ0/nRFEUy6UagFeNk1m1J76oe0= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references:x-google-sender-auth; b=Q7+q3yqpiuv8tssVZ0eLPUGJ/1iczwG+NYbLjqwfvYJvbnVJ0d/g02Ckb9qnR3dc4Li+/XrgRZYkSvMx/jVleAWA2gHAwo9A0uFgvk2qMMwcfOSbRHxAmLztjknPrknUFO0lveq5J64oKapUNEudk4CCUYzLAwU+OQv/x3lqUjw= Received: by 10.142.83.4 with SMTP id g4mr2443325wfb.28.1203956153021; Mon, 25 Feb 2008 08:15:53 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.143.174.8 with HTTP; Mon, 25 Feb 2008 08:15:52 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <30b660a20802250815q2d19aabs4fe8e27dedbcc742@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 08:15:52 -0800 From: "Mark Davis" To: "Stephane Bortzmeyer" In-Reply-To: <20080225083140.GA30210@nic.fr> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <004301c87656$ce7a0f70$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> <30b660a20802231212h2a0184b4q5d25f0d4aacc2512@mail.gmail.com> <20080225083140.GA30210@nic.fr> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 68bf1bcc1c6a7bbe Cc: LTRU Working Group Subject: Re: [Ltru] Keep Comments for identification, not for background (Was: Proposed edits (davis) X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0860670661==" Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org --===============0860670661== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_10252_18504856.1203956153040" ------=_Part_10252_18504856.1203956153040 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline That is exactly the kind of comment that is meant -- it helps to identify the subtag, and distinguish it from others. On Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 12:31 AM, Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote: > On Sat, Feb 23, 2008 at 12:12:03PM -0800, > Mark Davis wrote > a message of 6 lines which said: > > > The primary reason for comments are for subtag identification: to > > helpdistinguish the subtag from others with which it might be > > confused. Inparticular,large amounts of information about the use, > > history, or generalbackground of a subtag are frowned upon: these > > generally belong andare encouraged in registration requests, but do > > not belong in theregistry record proper. > > So, to be sure I'm understand, a Comment such as this one (which was > actually proposed on ietf-languages: > > Subtag: gsw > Type: language > Description: Swiss German > Description: Alemannic > Comment: gsw-FR is the recommended way to tag Alsatian > > would be OK? (It seems so but I want to be sure I understand your > proposal before writing +1) > -- Mark ------=_Part_10252_18504856.1203956153040 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline That is exactly the kind of comment that is meant -- it helps to identify the subtag, and distinguish it from others.

On Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 12:31 AM, Stephane Bortzmeyer <bortzmeyer@nic.fr> wrote:
On Sat, Feb 23, 2008 at 12:12:03PM -0800,
 Mark Davis <mark.davis@icu-project.org> wrote
 a message of 6 lines which said:

> The primary reason for comments are for subtag identification: to
> helpdistinguish the subtag from others with which it might be
> confused. Inparticular,large amounts of information about the use,
> history, or generalbackground of a subtag are frowned upon: these
> generally belong andare encouraged in registration requests, but do
> not belong in theregistry record proper.

So, to be sure I'm understand, a Comment such as this one (which was
actually proposed on ietf-languages:

Subtag: gsw
Type: language
Description: Swiss German
Description: Alemannic
Comment: gsw-FR is the recommended way to tag Alsatian

would be OK? (It seems so but I want to be sure I understand your
proposal before writing +1)



--
Mark ------=_Part_10252_18504856.1203956153040-- --===============0860670661== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru --===============0860670661==-- From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Mon Feb 25 08:37:18 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08D8128C6A3; Mon, 25 Feb 2008 08:37:18 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.742 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.742 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.305, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id w64SFjEx+J4A; Mon, 25 Feb 2008 08:37:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 034CC3A6CD1; Mon, 25 Feb 2008 08:35:53 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B7763A6B58 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2008 08:35:52 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OlYyWgtz1cHf for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2008 08:35:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from rsmtp2.corp.yahoo.com (rsmtp2.corp.yahoo.com [207.126.228.150]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DD5828C41B for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2008 08:32:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.72.72.17] (snvvpn1-10-72-72-c17.corp.yahoo.com [10.72.72.17]) by rsmtp2.corp.yahoo.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/y.rout) with ESMTP id m1PGWHem053385; Mon, 25 Feb 2008 08:32:17 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; s=serpent; d=yahoo-inc.com; c=nofws; q=dns; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject: references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=eFnZcZZgZKei0YNI8R+LJ0HTyj/mkkCSvKZVE5zyQ8fFhRpeGu3KtYVVLLrlOH0P Message-ID: <47C2ED90.8040501@yahoo-inc.com> Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 08:32:16 -0800 From: Addison Phillips User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Stephane Bortzmeyer References: <004301c87656$ce7a0f70$6501a8c0@DGBP7M81> <30b660a20802231212h2a0184b4q5d25f0d4aacc2512@mail.gmail.com> <20080225083140.GA30210@nic.fr> In-Reply-To: <20080225083140.GA30210@nic.fr> Cc: LTRU Working Group Subject: Re: [Ltru] Keep Comments for identification, not for background (Was: Proposed edits (davis) X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote: > On Sat, Feb 23, 2008 at 12:12:03PM -0800, > Mark Davis wrote > a message of 6 lines which said: > >> The primary reason for comments are for subtag identification: to >> helpdistinguish the subtag from others with which it might be >> confused. Inparticular,large amounts of information about the use, >> history, or generalbackground of a subtag are frowned upon: these >> generally belong andare encouraged in registration requests, but do >> not belong in theregistry record proper. > > So, to be sure I'm understand, a Comment such as this one (which was > actually proposed on ietf-languages: > > Subtag: gsw > Type: language > Description: Swiss German > Description: Alemannic > Comment: gsw-FR is the recommended way to tag Alsatian > > would be OK? (It seems so but I want to be sure I understand your > proposal before writing +1) That comment is okay to register, in that it is legal to register. I think that particular comment wouldn't be appropriate (I'd probably prefer something like "This subtag also encompasses Alsatian as a dialect", leaving region subtag selection to the user). But that's a personal opinion for another list. So: - it's okay to propose such a registration (it's okay to propose nearly ANY text for registration; that's what Comment is for) - it might or might not be appropriate to register that particular comment: the ietf-languages list and the reviewer would need to decide - Mark's text merely recommends that information be relevant to registry users: the registry is not intended to be Wikipedia. Addison -- Addison Phillips Globalization Architect -- Yahoo! Inc. Chair -- W3C Internationalization Core WG Internationalization is an architecture. It is not a feature. _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Mon Feb 25 09:43:36 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A74628C7EB; Mon, 25 Feb 2008 09:43:36 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.691 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.691 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.128, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, HTML_MESSAGE=1, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id R99l5XVqZCLP; Mon, 25 Feb 2008 09:43:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C09B53A6DB9; Mon, 25 Feb 2008 09:41:37 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2501C3A6BC0 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2008 09:41:37 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HAlyHsK3YFxW for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2008 09:41:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from blu139-omc2-s6.blu139.hotmail.com (blu139-omc2-s6.blu139.hotmail.com [65.55.175.176]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93B473A6DEC for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2008 09:37:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from BLU109-W25 ([65.55.162.185]) by blu139-omc2-s6.blu139.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Mon, 25 Feb 2008 09:37:33 -0800 Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [168.12.253.66] From: CE Whitehead To: Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 12:37:33 -0500 Importance: Normal MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Feb 2008 17:37:33.0914 (UTC) FILETIME=[1AA9E3A0:01C877D5] Subject: Re: [Ltru] Registration Forms; have we made it clear which are archived X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0049789973==" Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org --===============0049789973== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_0a2fd38d-0be9-49f1-a22a-c9fcf78b24df_" --_0a2fd38d-0be9-49f1-a22a-c9fcf78b24df_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Addison, I think the batching together of records is for ISO-triggered chan= ges (I support batching these), right? =20 SO instead of Addison's suggestion, maybe, " In the case of ISO-triggered changes, new records may be batched together= for submission to IANA as a set, and the relevant email messages for the e= ntire batch are then archived. " =20 (I think I understand the intent here--it's to simply archive the email me= ssage with the set of changes in it.) =20 --C. E. Whitehead cewcathar@hotmail.com * * *From: Addison Phillips wrote >In fact, it is > limited to a single sentence in Section 3.3, which curren= tly reads:> --> Each individual subtag affected by a change MUST be sent to= the > ietf-languages list with its own registration form and in a separate= > message. > ... to which we would add: -- Additions of new records MAY be batched tog= ether for=20 > submission to IANA as a set. -- Addison=20 =20 "Additions of new records"=20 sounds a bit awkward;=20 just "New records"=20 is all you need; but I do think you want to specify that it is in the case of ISO-triggered = changes that you are batching them. =20 --C. E. Whitehead cewcathar@hotmail.com= --_0a2fd38d-0be9-49f1-a22a-c9fcf78b24df_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Addison, I think the batching together of records is for ISO-triggered= changes (I support batching these), right?
 
SO
instead of Addison's suggestion, maybe,
" In the case of ISO-triggered changes, new reco= rds may be batched together for submission to IANA as a set,= and the relevant email messages for the entire batch are then archive= d. "
 
(I think I understand  the intent here--it's to simply archive the ema= il message with the set of changes in it.)
 
--C. E. Whitehead
cewcathar@hotmail.com
* * *
From: Addison Phillips <addison at yahoo-inc.com= >
wrote

>In fact, it is 
> limited to a single sentence in Section 3.= 3, which currently reads:

> --
> Each individual subtag aff= ected by a change MUST be sent to the
> ietf-languages list with its= own registration form and in a separate
> message.

> ... to which we would add: -- Additions of new records MAY be batched = together for
> submission to IANA as a set. -- Addison
 
"Additions of new record= s"
sounds a bit awkward;
just "New records"
is all you need;
but I do think you want to specify that it is in the case of ISO-triggered = changes that you are batching them.
 
--C. E. Whitehead
cewcathar@hotmail.com
= --_0a2fd38d-0be9-49f1-a22a-c9fcf78b24df_-- --===============0049789973== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru --===============0049789973==-- From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Mon Feb 25 09:57:05 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D9DB28C830; Mon, 25 Feb 2008 09:57:05 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.291 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.291 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.472, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, HTML_MESSAGE=1, J_CHICKENPOX_22=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_41=0.6, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Dd6WXT0V5K8J; Mon, 25 Feb 2008 09:57:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6ACD43A6D7B; Mon, 25 Feb 2008 09:52:30 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EC623A685C for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2008 09:52:29 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Rt-2yi0qCDNI for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2008 09:52:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from blu139-omc2-s10.blu139.hotmail.com (blu139-omc2-s10.blu139.hotmail.com [65.55.175.180]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E13A928C530 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2008 09:47:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from BLU109-W18 ([65.55.162.186]) by blu139-omc2-s10.blu139.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Mon, 25 Feb 2008 09:47:41 -0800 Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [168.12.253.66] From: CE Whitehead To: Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 12:47:41 -0500 Importance: Normal MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Feb 2008 17:47:41.0468 (UTC) FILETIME=[84CB45C0:01C877D6] Subject: Re: [Ltru] Updating Preferred-Value: field X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1278612138==" Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org --===============1278612138== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_c19b75d6-4487-4eca-bdc4-65a7c7e32553_" --_c19b75d6-4487-4eca-bdc4-65a7c7e32553_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, From: "Mark Davis" =20 > Let's suppose that ISO in 2010 changes US to UX and MM to BU. In the case where MM was originally BU, then,I am waivering between the fol= lowing (choice A? B?): =20 MM =3D> BU (that is, goes back to BU)US =3D> UX =20 and just inserting a comment, as provided for, as you all have noted, in: > 3.4 (10) (D): > D. For ISO 3166 codes, if the newly assigned code's me= aning is > associated with the same UN M.49 code as another 'region' = > subtag, then the existing region subtag remains as the > pref= erred value for that region and no new entry is created. > A comment M= AY be added to the existing region subtag > indicating the relationshi= p to the new ISO 3166 code. =20 I think there are cases when it might be worthwhile to switch back to the o= riginal subtag; but a comment would be in order anyway as some documents on= line will be tagged MM. (P. S., Sorry; I guess I got this into the editorial comments field, becaus= e I had a question about the wording.) =20 --C. E. Whitehead cewcathar@hotmail.com=20 = --_c19b75d6-4487-4eca-bdc4-65a7c7e32553_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi,
From: "Mark Davis" <mark.davis at icu-project.org> =
> Let's suppose that ISO in 2010 changes US to UX and MM to BU.
In the case where MM was originally BU, then,
I am waivering between the= following (choice A? B?):
 
MM =3D> BU
(that is, goes back to BU)
US =3D> UX

 
and just inserting a comment, as provided for, as you all have noted, in: > 3.4 (10) (D):


 >   D.  For ISO 3166 = codes, if the newly assigned code's meaning is
 >     =   associated with the same UN M.49 code as another 'region'
 &= gt;       subtag, then the existing region su= btag remains as the
 >       prefe= rred value for that region and no new entry is created.
 > =      A comment MAY be added to the existing region subt= ag
 >      indicating the relation= ship to the new ISO 3166 code.
 
I think there are cases when it might be worthwhile to switch back to the o= riginal subtag; but a comment would be in order anyway as some documents on= line will be tagged MM.
(P. S., Sorry; I guess I got this into the editorial comments fie= ld, because I had a question about the wording.)
 
--C. E. Whitehead
cewcathar@hotmail.com
 
= --_c19b75d6-4487-4eca-bdc4-65a7c7e32553_-- --===============1278612138== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru --===============1278612138==-- From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Mon Feb 25 10:33:42 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89E5128C47F; Mon, 25 Feb 2008 10:33:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.744 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.744 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.307, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VhTwGX324pum; Mon, 25 Feb 2008 10:33:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A029D28C7F6; Mon, 25 Feb 2008 10:27:34 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04ACC28C7F6 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2008 10:27:34 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GrmqBy2QGGa3 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2008 10:27:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from rsmtp1.corp.yahoo.com (rsmtp1.corp.yahoo.com [207.126.228.149]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6102528C61E for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2008 10:25:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from [172.21.37.80] (duringperson-lx.corp.yahoo.com [172.21.37.80]) by rsmtp1.corp.yahoo.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/y.rout) with ESMTP id m1PIPChk098877; Mon, 25 Feb 2008 10:25:12 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; s=serpent; d=yahoo-inc.com; c=nofws; q=dns; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject: references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=o+90a7VrnqiWP0ItfzoofoOqmOgfrSM6aAqmOaIUh5U4RSa00EzprK2XrP6M3xId Message-ID: <47C30808.8080402@yahoo-inc.com> Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 10:25:12 -0800 From: Addison Phillips User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: CE Whitehead , "'LTRU Working Group'" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [Ltru] RFC4646bis-11 Editorial Comments Only Sections 3.5, 3.6--Off-list but already discussed X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org (Editor hat on) Please do not send comments to me off of the list. I don't mind occasional private emails, but not ones that contain editorial suggestions or reminders that I've missed something (quite possible, given this list's traffic volume)---even if you think it's been covered already. It makes it difficult for me to reply appropriately. I have not divided Section 3.5 up. It could stand some clean-up work (it doesn't flow very well and is rather inelegant), but making subsections is probably not appropriate. At present, I don't propose to make any changes. Addison CE Whitehead wrote: > Regarding my editorial comments, section, > 3.5. "Registration Procedure for Subtags" > covers four pages of the bis-11 draft with only a break to show what > areigstration form looks like and to have a couple of bullets. > > (I can no longer access the bis-12 draft from where I am, but) if > you have not broken this section up, it would be really nice to see some > subsections in it (like I suggested) , > i.e., "The Prefix Field," "The Description Field," "The Role of the > Language Subtag Reviewer," "Revisions Initiated According to the > Provisions of Section 3.3 or Section 3.4," "Appeals," "Updates to > Existing Records." > > Thanks. > > I know you all are probably exhausted (all the typos/grammatical errors > everyone makes is proof), having worked on this all weekend (the library > here closed at 3 Saturday; I have not worked on it since so I am > reasonably well today), but these would be nice; it's the last day for > me to comment. > > Thanks. > > --C. E. Whitehead > cewcathar@hotmail.com > > (P.S. I did not send this to the list because I have already sent a > message in this vein: > > http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ltru/current/msg09545.html > > this is just a follow-up and I just sent two messages today--probably > the quota for someone who has just been participating in the ietf list > and just joined this to comment on the draft, etc.; I don't know; I was > exceeding my quota at ietf sometimes ) > > -- Addison Phillips Globalization Architect -- Yahoo! Inc. Chair -- W3C Internationalization Core WG Internationalization is an architecture. It is not a feature. _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Mon Feb 25 10:41:00 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B1D728C6A0; Mon, 25 Feb 2008 10:41:00 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.698 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.698 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.135, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, HTML_MESSAGE=1, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Nc9UKBwAPTkP; Mon, 25 Feb 2008 10:40:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from core3.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD7863A6CAF; Mon, 25 Feb 2008 10:39:48 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8ED3428C846 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2008 10:39:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qVIQbzaQgntK for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2008 10:39:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from blu139-omc2-s18.blu139.hotmail.com (blu139-omc2-s18.blu139.hotmail.com [65.55.175.188]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D05D28C6F4 for ; Mon, 25 Feb 2008 10:37:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from BLU109-W10 ([65.55.162.185]) by blu139-omc2-s18.blu139.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Mon, 25 Feb 2008 10:37:16 -0800 Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [168.12.253.66] From: CE Whitehead To: Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 13:37:15 -0500 Importance: Normal MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Feb 2008 18:37:16.0425 (UTC) FILETIME=[7201AF90:01C877DD] Subject: Re: [Ltru] RFC4646bis-11 Editorial Comments Only Sections 3.5, 3.6 X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1415141951==" Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org --===============1415141951== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_e8d0512a-cd85-4fc7-9914-e8e8e96f8406_" --_e8d0512a-cd85-4fc7-9914-e8e8e96f8406_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Addison, all, Section, 3.5., "Registration Procedure for Subtags"covers four pages of th= e bis-11 draft with only a break to show what a regstration form looks like= , and to have a couple of bullets. It would be really nice to see some subs= ections in it (like I suggested previously, http://www.ietf.org/mail-archiv= e/web/ltru/current/msg09545.html) ,i.e., "The Prefix Field," "The Descripti= on Field," "The Role of the Language Subtag Reviewer," "Revisions Initiate= d According to the Provisions of Section 3.3 or Section 3.4," "Appeals," "= Updates to Existing Records." =20 I also suggested moving the text in it around a bit. =20 If anyone wants me to send a rewrite, I will; just let me know. Thanks. --= C. E. Whiteheadcewcathar@hotmail.com = --_e8d0512a-cd85-4fc7-9914-e8e8e96f8406_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi, Addison, all,

Section, 3.5.,  "Registration Procedure for Subtags"
covers fou= r pages of the bis-11 draft with only a break to show what a regstrati= on form looks like, and to have a couple of bullets.
 
It would = be really nice to see some subsections in it (like I suggested previou= sly, http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ltru/current/msg09545.html<= /A>) ,
i.e., "The Prefix Field," "The Description Field," "The Role= of the Language Subtag Reviewer,"  "Revisions Initiated According to = the Provisions of Section 3.3 or Section 3.4,"  "Appeals," "Updates to= Existing Records."
 
I also suggested moving the text in it around a bit.
 
If anyone wants me to send a rewrite, I will; just let me know.
 Thanks.
 


 
--C. E. Whitehead
cewcathar@hotmail.com 
 
= --_e8d0512a-cd85-4fc7-9914-e8e8e96f8406_-- --===============1415141951== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru --===============1415141951==--