From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Fri Aug 1 02:07:47 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ltru-archive@megatron.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B69E33A6D54; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 02:07:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB0383A6D60 for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 02:07:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.769 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.769 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.830, BAYES_00=-2.599, GB_I_LETTER=-2, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id myJDpR-jv4sB for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 02:07:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ch-smtp01.sth.basefarm.net (ch-smtp01.sth.basefarm.net [80.76.149.212]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC9A83A6D49 for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 02:07:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from c83-248-80-178.bredband.comhem.se ([83.248.80.178]:33029 helo=wgbgkka02x) by ch-smtp01.sth.basefarm.net with esmtp (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1KOqMB-00026L-3R; Fri, 01 Aug 2008 10:51:27 +0200 From: "Kent Karlsson" To: "'LTRU Working Group'" , References: <804CC246A33E4BFBB9673BF3C0232323@DGBP7M81> Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 10:50:59 +0200 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5512 In-Reply-To: <804CC246A33E4BFBB9673BF3C0232323@DGBP7M81> Thread-Index: Acjzk9/EYuIVlKT5Qy+6YYk5HMeHQgAHXKFA X-Originating-IP: 83.248.80.178 X-Scan-Result: No virus found in message 1KOqMB-00026L-3R. X-Scan-Signature: ch-smtp01.sth.basefarm.net 1KOqMB-00026L-3R e76e14b25e7e482f241c61564effffff Subject: Re: [Ltru] Duplicate Busters: Survey #2 X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Doug Ewell wrote: > 1. Two Description fields are identical, [...] > or one contains letters with > diacritical marks while the other is a pure-ASCII > equivalent (i.e. all > diacritical marks stripped). [...] The > premise is that both Description fields convey > the exact same content, > but using slightly different typography. ... I do **NOT** agree with the position that removing diacritial marks would be "slightly different typography". It is a difference in spelling, much the same as differences in spelling that you excluded from your list ["(such as Kirghiz vs. Kyrgyz, or Dhivehi vs. Divehi)"] and thus want to keep as multiple names. As for the other items in your "#2" list, keep just the ISO 639-3 names. (Don't generalise my statement here. As you know, I think some of the items not on this "#2" list need spell correction.) /kent k _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Fri Aug 1 08:33:23 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ltru-archive@megatron.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38F4F3A6A21; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 08:33:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79E1A3A68E4 for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 08:30:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LG4VcWiCh3XT for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 08:30:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from blu0-omc1-s20.blu0.hotmail.com (blu0-omc1-s20.blu0.hotmail.com [65.55.116.31]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDC193A68A5 for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 08:30:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from BLU109-W48 ([65.55.116.9]) by blu0-omc1-s20.blu0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Fri, 1 Aug 2008 08:30:07 -0700 Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [74.254.68.141] From: CE Whitehead To: Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 11:30:07 -0400 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Aug 2008 15:30:07.0667 (UTC) FILETIME=[7A69B030:01C8F3EB] Cc: ltru@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Ltru] Duplicate Busters: Survey #2 X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1441379713==" Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org --===============1441379713== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_2d30246c-8ba0-4f15-9e14-e21651583aef_" --_2d30246c-8ba0-4f15-9e14-e21651583aef_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi=2C I think I understand Kent Karlsson to be saying that Hangul=2C Hang&= #x16D=3Bl=2C and Hangeul should all be kept as description fields. If so= =2C then I am in agreement (but I'm not an expert so I'd be willing to list= en to other arguments-- I did not get John Cowan's reasoning for retaining = just the first and third of these three fields.) I think it's better to li= st the different ways the names are spelled as it makes the description mor= e easily recognized. (It would help me to see a particular spelling I was = used to.) =20 --C. E. Whitehead cewcathar@hotmail.com=20 > From: "Doug Ewell" > Subject: Duplicate Busters: Survey= #2 > Type: script> Subtag: Hang> Description: Hangul> Description: Hangŭ= =3Bl> Description: Hangeul > (Technically I should not be including Hangeul= =2C which is a different > transcription of the same Korean word=2C not a g= enuinely different=20 > name. > Make your own judgment.) From: "Kent Karlsson" kent.karlsson14@comhem.seTo: "'LTRU Working Group'" = =2C > Doug Ewell wrote:> > 1. Two D= escription fields are identical=2C [...]> > or one contains letters with > = > diacritical marks while the other is a pure-ASCII> > equivalent (i.e. all= > > diacritical marks stripped). [...] The > > premise is that both Descri= ption fields convey> > the exact same content=2C > > but using slightly dif= ferent typography. ... > I do **NOT** agree with the position that removing= diacritial> marks would be "slightly different typography". It is a differ= ence> in spelling=2C much the same as differences in spelling that you> exc= luded from your list ["(such as Kirghiz vs. Kyrgyz=2C or Dhivehi> vs. Diveh= i)"] and thus want to keep as multiple names.= --_2d30246c-8ba0-4f15-9e14-e21651583aef_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi=2C I think I = =3Bunderstand Kent Karlsson to be saying =3Bthat =3BHangul=2C = =3B Hang&=3B#x16D=3Bl=2C and Hangeul should all be kept as description f= ields. =3B If so=2C then I am in agreement (but I'm not an expert so I'= d be willing to listen to other arguments-- I did not =3Bget John Cowan= 's reasoning for retaining just the first and third of these three fields.)=  =3B I think it's better to list the different ways the names are spell= ed as it makes the =3Bdescription more easily recognized. =3B (It w= ould help me to see a particular spelling I was used to.)

cewcathar@hotmail.com


>=3B From: "Doug E= well" <=3Bdoug@ewellic.org>=3B
>=3B Subject: Duplicate Busters: Su= rvey #2

>=3B Type: script>=3B Subtag: Hang
>=3B Description: Hangul
>=3B Description: H= ang&=3B#x16D=3Bl
>=3B Description: Hangeul
 =3B
>=3B (Technically I should not be includi= ng Hangeul=2C which is a different
>=3B transcription of the same Kor= ean word=2C not a genuinely different

>=3B name.
>= =3B Make your own judgment.)

 =3B
From: "Kent Karlsson" kent.karlsson14@comhem.se

To: "'LTRU Working Group'" <=3Blt= ru@ietf.org>=3B=2C <=3Bietf-languages@iana.org>=3B
>=3B Doug Ewe= ll wrote:
>=3B >=3B 1. Two Description fields are identical=2C [...]=
>=3B >=3B or one contains letters with
>=3B >=3B diacritica= l marks while the other is a pure-ASCII
>=3B >=3B equivalent (i.e. a= ll
>=3B >=3B diacritical marks stripped). [...] The
>=3B >= =3B premise is that both Description fields convey
>=3B >=3B the exa= ct same content=2C
>=3B >=3B but using slightly different typograph= y. ...
 =3B
>=3B I do = **NOT** agree with the position that removing diacritial
>=3B marks wo= uld be "slightly different typography". It is a difference
>=3B in spe= lling=2C much the same as differences in spelling that you
>=3B exclud= ed from your list ["(such as Kirghiz vs. Kyrgyz=2C or Dhivehi
>=3B vs. Divehi)"] and thus w= ant to keep as multiple names.

= --_2d30246c-8ba0-4f15-9e14-e21651583aef_-- --===============1441379713== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru --===============1441379713==-- From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Fri Aug 1 09:43:02 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ltru-archive@megatron.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2C0728C114; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 09:43:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A92B528C114 for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 09:43:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.398 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.398 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.800, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pc+FmMCoQo+U for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 09:42:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp2.wsfo.org (smtp2.wsfo.org [208.145.81.52]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C06228C10E for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 09:42:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dfwcom.sil.org (philippi.dallas.sil.org [172.20.1.21]) by smtp2.wsfo.org (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id m71Gh00K031342; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 12:43:01 -0400 In-Reply-To: From: ISO639-3@sil.org To: ietf-languages@alvestrand.no, ltru@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-KeepSent: DD97A502:D3DC76F5-86257498:005B5626; type=4; name=$KeepSent X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 7.0.2 September 26, 2006 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 11:42:57 -0500 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on DFWCOM/Servers/WCT(Release 8.0.1|February 07, 2008) at 08/01/2008 11:42:55 AM, Serialize complete at 08/01/2008 11:42:55 AM X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.62 on 172.22.0.52 Subject: Re: [Ltru] Duplicate Busters: Survey #2 [rup] X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0414836329==" Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org This is a multipart message in MIME format. --===============0414836329== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_alternative 005BD3A886257498_=" This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 005BD3A886257498_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" I have no problem with adding the hyphen, so that ISO 639-3 agrees with 639-2. It came without the hyphen from Ethnologue into the ISO/DIS 639-3, and apparently no one noticed the issue until now. -Joan "Frank Ellermann" Sent by: ietf-languages-bounces@alvestrand.no 2008-08-01 10:27 AM Please respond to Frank Ellermann To ietf-languages@alvestrand.no cc ltru@ietf.org Subject Re: Duplicate Busters: Survey #2 ... > Type: language > Subtag: rup > Description: Macedo Romanian > Description: Macedo-Romanian That is stupid. Pick the currently registered name, or convince ISO 638 to toss a coin. Note what you have done manually in 4645bis. ... Frank _______________________________________________ Ietf-languages mailing list Ietf-languages@alvestrand.no http://www.alvestrand.no/mailman/listinfo/ietf-languages --=_alternative 005BD3A886257498_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
I have no problem with adding the hyphen, so that ISO 639-3 agrees with 639-2. It came without the hyphen from Ethnologue into the ISO/DIS 639-3, and apparently no one noticed the issue until now.

-Joan


"Frank Ellermann" <nobody@xyzzy.claranet.de>
Sent by: ietf-languages-bounces@alvestrand.no

2008-08-01 10:27 AM
Please respond to
Frank Ellermann <hmdmhdfmhdjmzdtjmzdtzktdkztdjz@gmail.com>
To
ietf-languages@alvestrand.no
cc
ltru@ietf.org
Subject
Re: Duplicate Busters: Survey #2




...

> Type: language
> Subtag: rup
> Description: Macedo Romanian
> Description: Macedo-Romanian

That is stupid.  Pick the currently registered name,
or convince ISO 638 to toss a coin.  Note what you
have done manually in 4645bis.

...

Frank

_______________________________________________
Ietf-languages mailing list
Ietf-languages@alvestrand.no
http://www.alvestrand.no/mailman/listinfo/ietf-languages
--=_alternative 005BD3A886257498_=-- --===============0414836329== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru --===============0414836329==-- From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Fri Aug 1 11:30:03 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ltru-archive@megatron.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3008E3A6827; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 11:30:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E8823A6827 for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 11:30:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.717 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.717 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.627, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_JP=1.244, HOST_EQ_JP=1.265] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id meTJG8HRTAiw for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 11:30:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from toro.w3.mag.keio.ac.jp (toro.w3.mag.keio.ac.jp [133.27.228.201]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A26E63A6895 for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2008 11:29:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by toro.w3.mag.keio.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27C032BC4D; Sat, 2 Aug 2008 03:28:57 +0900 (JST) Received: from toro.w3.mag.keio.ac.jp ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (toro.w3.mag.keio.ac.jp [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RVzd1Fz1Q66v; Sat, 2 Aug 2008 03:28:57 +0900 (JST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (p5B3ECCE4.dip.t-dialin.net [91.62.204.228]) by toro.w3.mag.keio.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 187BA2BC43; Sat, 2 Aug 2008 03:28:54 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <489355D4.30809@w3.org> Date: Sat, 02 Aug 2008 03:28:36 +0900 From: Felix Sasaki User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.16 (Windows/20080708) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mark Davis References: <48929EC0.4090707@w3.org> <4D25F22093241741BC1D0EEBC2DBB1DA014A4ECD03@EX-SEA5-D.ant.amazon.com> <30b660a20808010919v5659c0e1mf335e4eab32b838a@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <30b660a20808010919v5659c0e1mf335e4eab32b838a@mail.gmail.com> Cc: LTRU Working Group Subject: Re: [Ltru] Using BCP 47 for translation information X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed" Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org SSBtYWRlIHRoZSBIVE1MIFdvcmtpbmcgR3JvdXAgYXdhcmUgb2YgeW91ciByZXNwb25zZSwgc2Vl CgpodHRwOi8vbGlzdHMudzMub3JnL0FyY2hpdmVzL1B1YmxpYy9wdWJsaWMtaHRtbC8yMDA4QXVn LzAwMzguaHRtbAoKUGxlYXNlIGZlZWwgZnJlZSB0byBjaGltZSBpbiBkaXJlY3RseS4KCkZlbGl4 CgpNYXJrIERhdmlzIOOBleOCk+OBr+abuOOBjeOBvuOBl+OBnzoKPiBJIGFncmVlIHdpdGggQWRk aXNvbidzIHJlc3BvbnNlLgo+Cj4gTWFyawo+Cj4KPiBPbiBUaHUsIEp1bCAzMSwgMjAwOCBhdCAx MDozNCBQTSwgUGhpbGxpcHMsIEFkZGlzb24gCj4gPGFkZGlzb25AYW1hem9uLmNvbSA8bWFpbHRv OmFkZGlzb25AYW1hem9uLmNvbT4+IHdyb3RlOgo+Cj4gICAgIE5vdGU6IEkgbWFkZSBhIHBhcnRp YWxseSByZXNwb25kaW5nIGNvbW1lbnQgb24gdGhlICJ3aW50ZXIiCj4gICAgICh3d3ctaW50ZXJu YXRpb25hbEB3My5vcmcgPG1haWx0bzp3d3ctaW50ZXJuYXRpb25hbEB3My5vcmc+KSBsaXN0Cj4g ICAgIGluIHJlc3BvbnNlIHRvIExlaWYgSGFsdmFyZCBTaWxsaSBoZXJlOgo+Cj4gICAgIGh0dHA6 Ly9saXN0cy53My5vcmcvQXJjaGl2ZXMvUHVibGljL3d3dy1pbnRlcm5hdGlvbmFsLzIwMDhKdWxT ZXAvMDAyMy5odG1sCj4KPiAgICAgQWRkaXNvbgo+Cj4gICAgIEFkZGlzb24gUGhpbGxpcHMKPiAg ICAgR2xvYmFsaXphdGlvbiBBcmNoaXRlY3QgLS0gTGFiMTI2Cj4KPiAgICAgSW50ZXJuYXRpb25h bGl6YXRpb24gaXMgbm90IGEgZmVhdHVyZS4KPiAgICAgSXQgaXMgYW4gYXJjaGl0ZWN0dXJlLgo+ Cj4KPiAgICAgPiAtLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLQo+ICAgICA+IEZyb206IGx0cnUt Ym91bmNlc0BpZXRmLm9yZyA8bWFpbHRvOmx0cnUtYm91bmNlc0BpZXRmLm9yZz4KPiAgICAgW21h aWx0bzpsdHJ1LWJvdW5jZXNAaWV0Zi5vcmcgPG1haWx0bzpsdHJ1LWJvdW5jZXNAaWV0Zi5vcmc+ XSBPbgo+ICAgICA+IEJlaGFsZiBPZiBGZWxpeCBTYXNha2kKPiAgICAgPiBTZW50OiBUaHVyc2Rh eSwgSnVseSAzMSwgMjAwOCAxMDoyNyBQTQo+ICAgICA+IFRvOiBMVFJVIFdvcmtpbmcgR3JvdXAK PiAgICAgPiBTdWJqZWN0OiBbTHRydV0gVXNpbmcgQkNQIDQ3IGZvciB0cmFuc2xhdGlvbiBpbmZv cm1hdGlvbgo+ICAgICA+Cj4gICAgID4gVGhlcmUgaXMgYSBwcm9wb3NhbCB0byB1c2UgQkNQIDQ3 IGZvciB0cmFuc2xhdGlvbiBpbmZvcm1hdGlvbiBpbgo+ICAgICA+IEhUTUw1LiBTZWUKPiAgICAg PiBodHRwOi8vbGlzdHMudzMub3JnL0FyY2hpdmVzL1B1YmxpYy9wdWJsaWMtaHRtbC8yMDA4QXVn LzAwMDUuaHRtbAo+ICAgICA+IGFuZCB0aGUgc3RhcnQgb2YgdGhlIHRocmVhZCBhdAo+ICAgICA+ IGh0dHA6Ly9saXN0cy53My5vcmcvQXJjaGl2ZXMvUHVibGljL3B1YmxpYy1odG1sLzIwMDhKdWwv MDQyNy5odG1sCj4gICAgID4gQ29tbWVudHMgYXJlIHZlcnkgd2VsY29tZS4KPiAgICAgPgo+ICAg ICA+IEZlbGl4Cj4gICAgID4gX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX18KPiAgICAgPiBMdHJ1IG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdAo+ICAgICA+IEx0cnVAaWV0Zi5vcmcg PG1haWx0bzpMdHJ1QGlldGYub3JnPgo+ICAgICA+IGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxt YW4vbGlzdGluZm8vbHRydQo+ICAgICBfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fXwo+ICAgICBMdHJ1IG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdAo+ICAgICBMdHJ1QGlldGYub3Jn IDxtYWlsdG86THRydUBpZXRmLm9yZz4KPiAgICAgaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1h bi9saXN0aW5mby9sdHJ1Cj4KPgoKX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX18KTHRydSBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QKTHRydUBpZXRmLm9yZwpodHRwczovL3d3dy5p ZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL2x0cnUK From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Mon Aug 4 10:01:25 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ltru-archive@megatron.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31F0828C306; Mon, 4 Aug 2008 10:01:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E22EA3A68E4; Mon, 4 Aug 2008 10:01:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.131 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.131 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.132, BAYES_50=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id E3CFgUNGoeKu; Mon, 4 Aug 2008 10:01:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3063B28C242; Mon, 4 Aug 2008 10:01:23 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=mindspring.com; b=KY/lg+uEzo78SFklGjKUnWOQHeMfHNanMQ/SluZuX0M1dKliQ8emnAl2HE2uEY2K; h=Received:Message-ID:From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [68.164.85.129] (helo=oemcomputer) by elasmtp-dupuy.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1KQ3RP-00071y-FU; Mon, 04 Aug 2008 13:01:51 -0400 Message-ID: <007e01c8f653$e34186e0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> From: "Randy Presuhn" To: "LTRU Working Group" Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 10:02:31 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-ELNK-Trace: 4488c18417c9426da92b9037bc8bcf44d4c20f6b8d69d888a63b7957ab9b23b3917b1cd06474d386c1ac40cd7e4860b3350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 68.164.85.129 Cc: agentx@ietf.org, Disman Subject: [Ltru] SOT - nomcom volunteers needed X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Hi - Joel M. Halpern, the IETF Nomcom Chair, has asked WG chairs to make their WGs aware that nomcom needs more volunteers. See https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/show_nomcom_message.cgi?id=1617 for further details. Randy _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Mon Aug 18 22:04:31 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ltru-archive@megatron.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 579B83A6814; Mon, 18 Aug 2008 22:04:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C9AF3A6814 for ; Mon, 18 Aug 2008 22:04:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.002 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.002 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.001, STOX_REPLY_TYPE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6QyX0zCL58oC for ; Mon, 18 Aug 2008 22:04:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpout07.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net (smtpout07-04.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net [64.202.165.233]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 16C623A6767 for ; Mon, 18 Aug 2008 22:04:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 32736 invoked from network); 19 Aug 2008 05:04:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (67.177.232.210) by smtpout07-04.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net (64.202.165.233) with ESMTP; 19 Aug 2008 05:04:34 -0000 Message-ID: From: "Doug Ewell" To: , "LTRU Working Group" Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 23:04:31 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5512 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 Subject: [Ltru] Registry updated X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed" Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org VGhlIExhbmd1YWdlIFN1YnRhZyBSZWdpc3RyeSBoYXMganVzdCBiZWVuIHVwZGF0ZWQsIHdpdGgg Zm91ciBjaGFuZ2VzIGluIApEZXNjcmlwdGlvbiBmaWVsZHMgcmVmbGVjdGluZyBjaGFuZ2VzIGlu IHRoZSB1bmRlcmx5aW5nIElTTyA2MzkgYW5kIDMxNjYgCnN0YW5kYXJkcy4KCmh0dHA6Ly93d3cu aWFuYS5vcmcvYXNzaWdubWVudHMvbGFuZ3VhZ2Utc3VidGFnLXJlZ2lzdHJ5CgotLQpEb3VnIEV3 ZWxsICAqICBUaG9ybnRvbiwgQ29sb3JhZG8sIFVTQSAgKiAgUkZDIDQ2NDUgICogIFVUTiAjMTQK aHR0cDovL3d3dy5ld2VsbGljLm9yZwpodHRwOi8vd3d3MS5pZXRmLm9yZy9odG1sLmNoYXJ0ZXJz L2x0cnUtY2hhcnRlci5odG1sCmh0dHA6Ly93d3cuYWx2ZXN0cmFuZC5uby9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3Rp bmZvL2lldGYtbGFuZ3VhZ2VzICDLhgoKX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX18KTHRydSBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QKTHRydUBpZXRmLm9yZwpodHRwczovL3d3 dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL2x0cnUK From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Sun Aug 24 20:46:53 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ltru-archive@megatron.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01D923A682B; Sun, 24 Aug 2008 20:46:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FE3A3A682B for ; Sun, 24 Aug 2008 20:46:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Quarantine-ID: X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER, Non-encoded 8-bit data (char E9 hex): Cc: "Lang G\351rard" ; Sun, 24 Aug 2008 20:46:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpauth21.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net (smtpauth21.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net [64.202.165.38]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 81CDA3A67DB for ; Sun, 24 Aug 2008 20:46:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 16365 invoked from network); 25 Aug 2008 03:46:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (67.177.232.210) by smtpauth21.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net (64.202.165.38) with ESMTP; 25 Aug 2008 03:46:04 -0000 Message-ID: <28A5AB79A97144228B72DB68A394830D@DGBP7M81> From: "Doug Ewell" To: "LTRU Working Group" References: <20080819184003.0FDF13BA269@hermes2.insee.fr> <68723E6B2E0EDC4999504D17DDE8F94904AD06F2@S90X2HUB1.ad.insee.intra> <68723E6B2E0EDC4999504D17DDE8F94904AD06F5@S90X2HUB1.ad.insee.intra> <4D4A25EEF3A541A4AC195EE86E928B54@DGBP7M81> <68723E6B2E0EDC4999504D17DDE8F94904AD06FC@S90X2HUB1.ad.insee.intra> <536D3DB8C2B14CD083F032A1467FE3FC@DGBP7M81> <68723E6B2E0EDC4999504D17DDE8F94904AD06FE@S90X2HUB1.ad.insee.intra> Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 21:46:02 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5512 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 Cc: Lang Gérard Subject: Re: [Ltru] [private] Re: Registry updated X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org This is a continuation, of sorts, of a semi-private thread that was sent = to 7 people (though only G=E9rard and I participated) and which I felt = belonged on the public list. Lang G=E9rard wrote: [on adding region subtags for oceans and seas] > ... I think that it is perfectly conceivable that: > -People working together on a petrol platform (say outside Alaska on = > one side, and in the economic maritime zone of Norway on another side) = > could each develop a language that would be initially only = > interintelligible between them on each side, but would spread out and = > be recognized with specific language names after that; > -People working on a ship that only sails inside the mediterraneen = > sea, on one side, and in the Japan sea on another side could each = > develop a language that would be initially only interintelligible = > between them on each side, but would spread out and be recognized with = > specific language names after that. > In both cases, that are certainly not more absurd that the cases of = > Klingon or Europanto, a region subtag for Atlantic Ocean and another = > one for Pacific Ocean would not be unuseful to mark the association of = > these languages with these regions. In both cases, the underlying premise is that these co-workers would = develop and share a language variant (if not a full-blown "language") = that is different enough from their respective regional variants to = warrant a new variant subtag, and -- here's the tough one for me -- is = best identified by the physical location of the platform or ship, not = the industry or company, such that other workers on a different platform = or ship in the same region would be expected to adopt the same language = variant. I'm not seeing this. I can imagine Shell or BP employees adopting a = particular industry-specific jargon or vocabulary (not quite as = grammatically extensive as Boontling, however), but I don't see how this = would be specific enough to the geographic region, or consistent enough = across different scenarios, that the best way to describe these variants = would be "English as spoken in the Bering Sea" or similar. If such variants are found to exist, and a need to tag content in these = variants is established, then ietf-languages can always consider adding = variant subtags as needed. > The fact that a list of region subtag corresponding to countries that = > border the Atlantic Ocean would be necessary to correctly use a = > region subtag for Atlantic Ocean does not seem not different from the = > fact that the same is true concerning the numeric-3 region subtags = > given by the continental, subcontinental and regional continental = > entries in UNSD's M49 nomenclature. There are actual, real-world use cases like "Spanish as used in Latin = America," where the language variety in question is broader than = "Honduras" or "Colombia," but still needs to be distinguished from = "Spanish as used in Spain." To date I have not seen any real-world use = cases for "Language X as used in the Atlantic Ocean." There is a big = difference between reserving the possibility to encode things we have = not encoded before, and adding subtags for hypothetical cases. > Returning to Europanto, I am not sure that everyone knows or agrees = > that this is a bogus. And how is it possible that ETHNOLOGUE, that = > seems a serious academic organisation created such a language name, = > and that ISO 639-3 registered such a language name, and that SIL that = > is ISO 639-3 Registration Agency and ISO 639/RA-JAC did not decide to = > deprecate "eur" I don't know how all this happened. But I do believe strongly that it = is not our place to choose certain ISO 639-* languages and reject = others. > (By the way, the mobilization of the ISO 3166-2 code element BE-BRU = > could be useful in this case) ? Notwithstanding all of my other objections to ISO 3166-2-based subtags = (syntactic conflict with other subtags; not always freely available), = this would only be appropriate to describe a language variety associated = with Brussels itself -- not merely some putative variant associated with = the NATO or EU administration. > To be completely sure about this case, I recently (08/0/2008) posted = > to SIL an official request form, following all described procedures, = > to register a new alpha-3 ISO 639-3 code element (nel) [because = > infortunately (neg) is no more available] for the language name = > "Neglish", that is the name of the language spoken by people working = > in NATO's buildings in Brussels (I am not sure that the use of a = > region tag concerning Atlantic Ocean would be in this specific case = > more fitting that BE-BRU !), exactly in the same way that Europanto is = > defined and described in ETHNOLOGUE as being the name of the language = > spoken by people working in European Union's buildings in Brussels. = > And I am waiting to see how this request will be managed by SIL and = > ISO 639/RA-JAC, and what explanations will be given about it. I don't know how ISO 639-3/RA will feel about a request that is made to = test the waters, so to speak, "to see how this request will be managed" = rather than as a genuine request for a code for a genuine language that = is genuinely not supported in ISO 639-3. If it were up to me, I would = reject this request as frivolous. "Bureaucratese" is not a separate language. We have had this discussion = a few times with concepts like "formal" versus "informal" speech. Some = people (not to say G=E9rard) like to mock politicians by claiming "they're = not speaking the same language as you and me," but there is no = conceptual precedent for tagging political or bureaucratic speech = distinctly from other speech. Finally, I'm not at all convinced that your best argument for adding = something to ISO 639-3 or to the LSR is to first cite an example you = consider absurd, such as Europanto, and then state that your proposed = code or subtag is "no worse than" the absurd example. [on adding ISO 3166-2-based subtags] > Concerning syntax, maybe case-insensitivity is not all the future for = > IANA's Registry. As I said before (but not on the list), the reasons for language tags to = be case-insensitive are numerous, and the design decision would be = difficult and painful to overturn. > Anyway, we certainly could search for another solution for ISO 3166-2 = > pseudo code elements. For example, by introducing a "j" prefix, like = > the "i" prefix is used. Reserving a singleton to introduce a 3166-2-based subtag would be = syntactically feasible, and has been suggested for other situations, = such as ISO 639-6. A syntactically equivalent, but perhaps = administratively cleaner, solution might be to establish an extension = (see RFC 4646, Section 3.7). You would still need to persuade people = that the additional geographic precision afforded by ISO 3166-2 would be = useful in language tags and would justify the administrative effort. -- Doug Ewell * Thornton, Colorado, USA * RFC 4645 * UTN #14 http://www.ewellic.org http://www1.ietf.org/html.charters/ltru-charter.html http://www.alvestrand.no/mailman/listinfo/ietf-languages =88 _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Sun Aug 24 21:10:56 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ltru-archive@megatron.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E516F3A682B; Sun, 24 Aug 2008 21:10:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F18983A682B for ; Sun, 24 Aug 2008 21:10:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.74 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.74 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_20=-0.74] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0eheDSV8MHh0 for ; Sun, 24 Aug 2008 21:10:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from earth.ccil.org (earth.ccil.org [192.190.237.11]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D9DB3A6804 for ; Sun, 24 Aug 2008 21:10:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cowan by earth.ccil.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1KXTPp-0002g5-FN; Mon, 25 Aug 2008 00:10:53 -0400 Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 00:10:53 -0400 To: Doug Ewell Message-ID: <20080825041053.GA23099@mercury.ccil.org> References: <20080819184003.0FDF13BA269@hermes2.insee.fr> <68723E6B2E0EDC4999504D17DDE8F94904AD06F2@S90X2HUB1.ad.insee.intra> <68723E6B2E0EDC4999504D17DDE8F94904AD06F5@S90X2HUB1.ad.insee.intra> <4D4A25EEF3A541A4AC195EE86E928B54@DGBP7M81> <68723E6B2E0EDC4999504D17DDE8F94904AD06FC@S90X2HUB1.ad.insee.intra> <536D3DB8C2B14CD083F032A1467FE3FC@DGBP7M81> <68723E6B2E0EDC4999504D17DDE8F94904AD06FE@S90X2HUB1.ad.insee.intra> <28A5AB79A97144228B72DB68A394830D@DGBP7M81> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <28A5AB79A97144228B72DB68A394830D@DGBP7M81> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11) From: John Cowan Cc: LTRU Working Group , Lang =?utf-8?Q?G=E9rard?= Subject: Re: [Ltru] [private] Re: Registry updated X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Doug Ewell scripsit: > Reserving a singleton to introduce a 3166-2-based subtag would be > syntactically feasible, and has been suggested for other situations, The trouble is that 3166-2 is neither stable nor publicly available. -- John Cowan cowan@ccil.org http://ccil.org/~cowan In computer science, we stand on each other's feet. --Brian K. Reid _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Sun Aug 24 21:21:00 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ltru-archive@megatron.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 774553A68A4; Sun, 24 Aug 2008 21:21:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B3393A68A4 for ; Sun, 24 Aug 2008 21:20:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.001 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0I9ZDnZ+psdZ for ; Sun, 24 Aug 2008 21:20:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.66]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F1BC3A683B for ; Sun, 24 Aug 2008 21:20:58 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=mindspring.com; b=TRq8Y8gIEJoizzrY/5KbuHsTS1yFH0odYqt+gxxn/vTkXB82VKSCt9gl7sWui5Ol; h=Received:Message-ID:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [69.3.146.228] (helo=oemcomputer) by elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1KXTZY-0003Z6-SF for ltru@ietf.org; Mon, 25 Aug 2008 00:20:57 -0400 Message-ID: <004201c9066a$2be07480$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> From: "Randy Presuhn" To: "LTRU Working Group" References: <20080819184003.0FDF13BA269@hermes2.insee.fr><68723E6B2E0EDC4999504D17DDE8F94904AD06F2@S90X2HUB1.ad.insee.intra><68723E6B2E0EDC4999504D17DDE8F94904AD06F5@S90X2HUB1.ad.insee.intra><4D4A25EEF3A541A4AC195EE86E928B54@DGBP7M81><68723E6B2E0EDC4999504D17DDE8F94904AD06FC@S90X2HUB1.ad.insee.intra><536D3DB8C2B14CD083F032A1467FE3FC@DGBP7M81><68723E6B2E0EDC4999504D17DDE8F94904AD06FE@S90X2HUB1.ad.insee.intra><28A5AB79A97144228B72DB68A394830D@DGBP7M81> <20080825041053.GA23099@mercury.ccil.org> Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 21:22:21 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-ELNK-Trace: 4488c18417c9426da92b9037bc8bcf44d4c20f6b8d69d888a63b7957ab9b23b3caaee4006b1228b41c6a27438758a49d350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 69.3.146.228 Subject: Re: [Ltru] [private] Re: Registry updated X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Hi - > From: "John Cowan" > To: "Doug Ewell" > Cc: "LTRU Working Group" ; "Lang G=E9rard" > Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2008 9:10 PM > Subject: Re: [Ltru] [private] Re: Registry updated > > Doug Ewell scripsit: > > > Reserving a singleton to introduce a 3166-2-based subtag would be > > syntactically feasible, and has been suggested for other situations, > > The trouble is that 3166-2 is neither stable nor publicly available. As co-chair: Furthermore, that work is outside the current scope of this working group. After we've completed our current charter, we can consider whether it would be worthwhile to add such a deliverable. At this time, we should devote our energy to completing the current deliverables. Randy _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Mon Aug 25 06:06:27 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ltru-archive@megatron.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D4AB3A6FBA; Mon, 25 Aug 2008 06:06:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 839B53A6FB9 for ; Mon, 25 Aug 2008 06:06:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.069 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.069 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.067, BAYES_50=0.001, STOX_REPLY_TYPE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oyianp9rflOV for ; Mon, 25 Aug 2008 06:06:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpauth21.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net (smtpauth21.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net [64.202.165.38]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 694093A69E0 for ; Mon, 25 Aug 2008 06:06:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 2766 invoked from network); 25 Aug 2008 13:05:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (67.177.232.210) by smtpauth21.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net (64.202.165.38) with ESMTP; 25 Aug 2008 13:05:32 -0000 Message-ID: <444975FD0B044857BBF156AC3B51E6FB@DGBP7M81> From: "Doug Ewell" To: "LTRU Working Group" , , Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 07:05:29 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5512 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 Subject: [Ltru] Results of Duplicate Busters Survey #1 X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org SGVyZSBhcmUgdGhlIHJlc3VsdHMgb2YgU3VydmV5ICMxLCBpbiB3aGljaCBJIGFza2VkIHdoYXQg dG8gZG8gYWJvdXQgCmR1cGxpY2F0ZSBuYW1lcyBpbiB0aGUgY29yZSBzdGFuZGFyZHMsIHdoaWNo IHdlIGFkb3B0IGFzIERlc2NyaXB0aW9uIApmaWVsZHMgYW5kIGluIHdoaWNoIGR1cGxpY2F0aW9u IHdpdGhpbiBhIHJlY29yZCB0eXBlIHdvdWxkIHRoZXJlZm9yZSBiZSAKYmFkLgoKRm9yIHRoZSBs YW5ndWFnZSBzdWJ0YWdzIGZvciBIZWJyZXcsIEluZG9uZXNpYW4sIEphdmFuZXNlLCBhbmQgWWlk ZGlzaCwgCnRoZSByZWdpb24gc3VidGFnIGZvciAiUHJpdmF0ZSB1c2UiLCBhbmQgdGhlIGdyYW5k ZmF0aGVyZWQgdGFnIGZvciAKSGFra2EsIEkgcmVjb21tZW5kZWQgbm8gY2hhbmdlLCBzaW5jZSB0 aGVzZSBhcmUgbm90IHRoZSBjYXNlcyBpbiB3aGljaCAKZHVwbGljYXRpb24gcG9zZXMgYSBwcm9i bGVtLiAgTm9ib2R5IGFyZ3VlZCBhZ2FpbnN0IHRoaXMuICBJIGRpZCBjaGFuZ2UgCnRoZSB0ZXh0 ICJQUklWQVRFIFVTRSIgZnJvbSB1cHBlcmNhc2UgdG8gc2VudGVuY2UgY2FzZSwgYWdhaW4gd2l0 aG91dCAKb2JqZWN0aW9uIChhbHRob3VnaCBLZW50IEthcmxzc29uIGhhZCBvcmlnaW5hbGx5IGV4 cHJlc3NlZCBwcmVmZXJlbmNlIApmb3IgYWxsLWxvd2VyY2FzZSAicHJpdmF0ZSB1c2UiKS4KCkZv ciB0aGUgbGFuZ3VhZ2Ugc3VidGFncyBmb3IgQXJ1w6EsIEF3YSwgQm9ybmEsIGFuZCBNdXJpaywg SVNPIDYzOS0zL1JBIApoYXMgbWFkZSB0aGUgYXBwcm9wcmlhdGUgY2hhbmdlcyBpbiB0aGVpciBk YXRhYmFzZSBhbmQgcG9zdGVkIHRoZW0gdG8gCnRoZWlyIERvd25sb2FkcyBwYWdlLCBzbyB3ZSBo YXZlIG5vIGFjdGlvbiBpdGVtIHRoZXJlIGVpdGhlci4KClRoYXQgbGVhdmVzIG9ubHkgdGhlIERp bWxpL0tpcm1hbmpraSBzaXR1YXRpb24sIHdoaWNoIG1pZ2h0IGhhdmUgYmVlbiAKaGFuZGxlZCBi eSBJU08gNjM5LTMgYXMgd2VsbCBidXQgd2FzIG5vdC4gIFRvIHN1bW1hcml6ZSwgIkRpbWxpIiBh bmQgCiJLaXJtYW5qa2kiIGFyZSB0aGUgb25seSBuYW1lcyBhc3NpZ25lZCB0byBJU08gNjM5LTMg Y29kZSBlbGVtZW50cyAnZGlxJyAKYW5kICdraXUnIHJlc3BlY3RpdmVseSwgYnV0IHRoZXkgYXJl IGFsc28gYWx0ZXJuYXRpdmUgbmFtZXMgZm9yIHRoZSBjb2RlIAplbGVtZW50ICd6emEnIHdob3Nl IHJlZmVyZW5jZSBuYW1lIGlzICJaYXphLiIKCkJlbG93IGlzIHRoZSBvcmlnaW5hbCB0ZXh0IEkg d3JvdGUgb24gSnVseSAzMCwgcHJvcG9zaW5nIHRoYXQgdGhlc2UgCm5hbWVzIGJlIGRpc2FtYmln dWF0ZWQgaW4gdGhlIFJlZ2lzdHJ5LiAgSSdkIGxpa2UgdG8gYXNrIElTTyA2MzktMyB0byAKY29u c2lkZXIgbWFraW5nIHRoaXMgY2hhbmdlIGluIHRoZSBzb3VyY2U7IGlmIHRoZXkgZG8gbm90LCBJ J2QgbGlrZSAKZmVlZGJhY2sgZnJvbSB0aGUgbGlzdHMgb24gbWFraW5nIHRoZSBjaGFuZ2UgaW4g dGhlIFJlZ2lzdHJ5LCBhIHNvbHV0aW9uIAp3aGljaCBoYXMgbm90IHNhdCB3ZWxsIHdpdGggbWFu eSBsaXN0IHBhcnRpY2lwYW50cyBpbiB0aGUgcGFzdC4KCi0tLWNvcGllZCBmcm9tIGVhcmxpZXIg cG9zdC0tLQoKVHlwZTogbGFuZ3VhZ2UKU3VidGFnOiBkaXEKRGVzY3JpcHRpb246IERpbWxpCi0t PiBSRVBMQUNFIFdJVEg6IERlc2NyaXB0aW9uOiBEaW1saSAoaW5kaXZpZHVhbCBsYW5ndWFnZSkK QWRkZWQ6IDIwMjktMDktMDkKTWFjcm9sYW5ndWFnZTogenphCgpUeXBlOiBsYW5ndWFnZQpTdWJ0 YWc6IGtpdQpEZXNjcmlwdGlvbjogS2lybWFuamtpCi0tPiBSRVBMQUNFIFdJVEg6IERlc2NyaXB0 aW9uOiBLaXJtYW5qa2kgKGluZGl2aWR1YWwgbGFuZ3VhZ2UpCkFkZGVkOiAyMDI5LTA5LTA5Ck1h Y3JvbGFuZ3VhZ2U6IHp6YQoKVHlwZTogbGFuZ3VhZ2UKU3VidGFnOiB6emEKRGVzY3JpcHRpb246 IFphemEKRGVzY3JpcHRpb246IERpbWlsaQpEZXNjcmlwdGlvbjogRGltbGkKLS0+IFJFUExBQ0Ug V0lUSDogRGVzY3JpcHRpb246IERpbWxpIChtYWNyb2xhbmd1YWdlKQpEZXNjcmlwdGlvbjogS2ly ZGtpCkRlc2NyaXB0aW9uOiBLaXJtYW5qa2kKLS0+IFJFUExBQ0UgV0lUSDogRGVzY3JpcHRpb246 IEtpcm1hbmpraSAobWFjcm9sYW5ndWFnZSkKRGVzY3JpcHRpb246IFphemFraQpBZGRlZDogMjAw Ni0wOC0yNApTY29wZTogbWFjcm9sYW5ndWFnZQoKRGlzY3Vzc2lvbjoKVGhlc2UgdGhyZWUgY2Fz ZXMgYXJlIGhhbmRsZWQgdG9nZXRoZXIgZHVlIHRvIHRoZWlyIGNvbW1vbmFsaXR5LiAgQm90aApE aW1saSBhbmQgS2lybWFuamtpIGFyZSBpbmRpdmlkdWFsIGxhbmd1YWdlcyBlbmNvbXBhc3NlZCB3 aXRoaW4gWmF6YSwKd2hpY2ggbWF5IGFsc28gYmUgY2FsbGVkIERpbWxpIG9yIEtpcm1hbmpraSwg bmVhdGx5IGV4ZW1wbGlmeWluZyB0aGUKY29uY2VwdCBvZiBhIG1hY3JvbGFuZ3VhZ2UuICBUaGUg c3RyaW5ncyAiaW5kaXZpZHVhbCBsYW5ndWFnZSIgYW5kCiJtYWNyb2xhbmd1YWdlIiBhcmUgdXNl ZCBleHRlbnNpdmVseSBpbiA2MzktMyBmb3IgdGhpcyBwdXJwb3NlOyBzZWUsIGZvcgpleGFtcGxl LCBEb2dyaS4KCi0tCkRvdWcgRXdlbGwgICogIFRob3JudG9uLCBDb2xvcmFkbywgVVNBICAqICBS RkMgNDY0NSAgKiAgVVROICMxNApodHRwOi8vd3d3LmV3ZWxsaWMub3JnCmh0dHA6Ly93d3cxLmll dGYub3JnL2h0bWwuY2hhcnRlcnMvbHRydS1jaGFydGVyLmh0bWwKaHR0cDovL3d3dy5hbHZlc3Ry YW5kLm5vL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vaWV0Zi1sYW5ndWFnZXMgIMuGCgpfX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXwpMdHJ1IG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdApMdHJ1 QGlldGYub3JnCmh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vbHRydQo= From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Mon Aug 25 08:44:33 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ltru-archive@megatron.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5ECD33A6FC3; 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Mon, 25 Aug 2008 17:43:38 +0200 From: "Kent Karlsson" To: "'LTRU Working Group'" References: <444975FD0B044857BBF156AC3B51E6FB@DGBP7M81> Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 17:42:37 +0200 Message-ID: <89E28F621466485AA20A019C0D4A9811@streamserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5512 In-Reply-To: <444975FD0B044857BBF156AC3B51E6FB@DGBP7M81> Thread-Index: AckGs2T9uz7i5xBhTkupzt68OVdy1gAFRpIg X-Originating-IP: 83.248.80.178 X-Scan-Result: No virus found in message 1KXeED-0008Ny-62. X-Scan-Signature: ch-smtp01.sth.basefarm.net 1KXeED-0008Ny-62 22c8298e5fca8b115e4d8ac5bbf151eb Cc: ietf-languages@iana.org, ISO639-3@sil.org Subject: Re: [Ltru] Results of Duplicate Busters Survey #1 X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Doug Ewell wrote: > > Type: language > Subtag: diq > Description: Dimli > --> REPLACE WITH: Description: Dimli (individual language) > Added: 2029-09-09 > Macrolanguage: zza > > Type: language > Subtag: kiu > Description: Kirmanjki > --> REPLACE WITH: Description: Kirmanjki (individual language) > Added: 2029-09-09 > Macrolanguage: zza > > Type: language > Subtag: zza > Description: Zaza > Description: Dimili > Description: Dimli > --> REPLACE WITH: Description: Dimli (macrolanguage) > Description: Kirdki > Description: Kirmanjki > --> REPLACE WITH: Description: Kirmanjki (macrolanguage) > Description: Zazaki > Added: 2006-08-24 > Scope: macrolanguage > > Discussion: > These three cases are handled together due to their commonality. Both > Dimli and Kirmanjki are individual languages encompassed within Zaza, > which may also be called Dimli or Kirmanjki, neatly exemplifying the > concept of a macrolanguage. The strings "individual language" and > "macrolanguage" are used extensively in 639-3 for this > purpose; see, for > example, Dogri. My preference would be to remove Dimli and Kirmanjki as alternative descriptions for zza, if ISO 639-3 RA does so. Failing that, I support your suggestion, even if ISO 639-3 RA continues to ignore the issue. /kent k _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Mon Aug 25 09:21:40 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ltru-archive@megatron.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F22428C100; Mon, 25 Aug 2008 09:21:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C27B03A6CED for ; Mon, 25 Aug 2008 09:21:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.739 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.739 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_20=-0.74, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Q62Ox5Cdkymy for ; Mon, 25 Aug 2008 09:21:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp1.wsfo.org (smtp1.wsfo.org [208.145.81.51]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 786C128C100 for ; Mon, 25 Aug 2008 09:21:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dfwcom.sil.org (philippi.dallas.sil.org [172.20.1.21]) by smtp1.wsfo.org (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id m7PGJj9x008163; Mon, 25 Aug 2008 12:19:45 -0400 In-Reply-To: <89E28F621466485AA20A019C0D4A9811@streamserve.com> From: ISO639-3@sil.org To: ietf-languages@iana.org, "'LTRU Working Group'" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-KeepSent: 867AF419:83CA6E43-862574B0:0058D35E; type=4; name=$KeepSent X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 7.0.2 September 26, 2006 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 11:19:34 -0500 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on DFWCOM/Servers/WCT(Release 8.0.1|February 07, 2008) at 08/25/2008 11:19:29 AM, Serialize complete at 08/25/2008 11:19:29 AM X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.62 on 172.22.0.51 Subject: Re: [Ltru] Results of Duplicate Busters Survey #1 X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1374104622==" Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org This is a multipart message in MIME format. --===============1374104622== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_alternative 0059B317862574B0_=" This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 0059B317862574B0_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" I think that the ISO 639/JAC erred in including so many names with the macrolanguage (done before I was a voting member). I cannot simply remove the names (as I also think would be better), because they are included in Part 2. So the offending name pairs will be disambiguated in Part 3. At the moment I am processing substantive change requests and trying to meet other deadlines with other work, so it may be a week before these changes are posted publicly either online or in download tables. Joan Spanne ISO 639-3/RA SIL International 7500 W Camp Wisdom Rd Dallas, TX 75236 ISO639-3@sil.org "Kent Karlsson" Sent by: ietf-languages-bounces@alvestrand.no 2008-08-25 10:42 AM To "'LTRU Working Group'" cc ietf-languages@iana.org, ISO639-3@sil.org Subject RE: [Ltru] Results of Duplicate Busters Survey #1 Doug Ewell wrote: > > Type: language > Subtag: diq > Description: Dimli > --> REPLACE WITH: Description: Dimli (individual language) > Added: 2029-09-09 > Macrolanguage: zza > > Type: language > Subtag: kiu > Description: Kirmanjki > --> REPLACE WITH: Description: Kirmanjki (individual language) > Added: 2029-09-09 > Macrolanguage: zza > > Type: language > Subtag: zza > Description: Zaza > Description: Dimili > Description: Dimli > --> REPLACE WITH: Description: Dimli (macrolanguage) > Description: Kirdki > Description: Kirmanjki > --> REPLACE WITH: Description: Kirmanjki (macrolanguage) > Description: Zazaki > Added: 2006-08-24 > Scope: macrolanguage > > Discussion: > These three cases are handled together due to their commonality. Both > Dimli and Kirmanjki are individual languages encompassed within Zaza, > which may also be called Dimli or Kirmanjki, neatly exemplifying the > concept of a macrolanguage. The strings "individual language" and > "macrolanguage" are used extensively in 639-3 for this > purpose; see, for > example, Dogri. My preference would be to remove Dimli and Kirmanjki as alternative descriptions for zza, if ISO 639-3 RA does so. Failing that, I support your suggestion, even if ISO 639-3 RA continues to ignore the issue. /kent k _______________________________________________ Ietf-languages mailing list Ietf-languages@alvestrand.no http://www.alvestrand.no/mailman/listinfo/ietf-languages --=_alternative 0059B317862574B0_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
I think that the ISO 639/JAC erred in including so many names with the macrolanguage (done before I was a voting member). I cannot simply remove the names (as I also think would be better), because they are included in Part 2. So the offending name pairs will be disambiguated in Part 3.

At the moment I am processing substantive change requests and trying to meet other deadlines with other work, so it may be a week before these changes are posted publicly either online or in download tables.

Joan Spanne
ISO 639-3/RA
SIL International
7500 W Camp Wisdom Rd
Dallas, TX 75236
ISO639-3@sil.org


"Kent Karlsson" <kent.karlsson14@comhem.se>
Sent by: ietf-languages-bounces@alvestrand.no

2008-08-25 10:42 AM

To
"'LTRU Working Group'" <ltru@ietf.org>
cc
ietf-languages@iana.org, ISO639-3@sil.org
Subject
RE: [Ltru] Results of Duplicate Busters Survey #1





Doug Ewell wrote:
>
> Type: language
> Subtag: diq
> Description: Dimli
> --> REPLACE WITH: Description: Dimli (individual language)
> Added: 2029-09-09
> Macrolanguage: zza
>
> Type: language
> Subtag: kiu
> Description: Kirmanjki
> --> REPLACE WITH: Description: Kirmanjki (individual language)
> Added: 2029-09-09
> Macrolanguage: zza
>
> Type: language
> Subtag: zza
> Description: Zaza
> Description: Dimili
> Description: Dimli
> --> REPLACE WITH: Description: Dimli (macrolanguage)
> Description: Kirdki
> Description: Kirmanjki
> --> REPLACE WITH: Description: Kirmanjki (macrolanguage)
> Description: Zazaki
> Added: 2006-08-24
> Scope: macrolanguage
>
> Discussion:
> These three cases are handled together due to their commonality.  Both
> Dimli and Kirmanjki are individual languages encompassed within Zaza,
> which may also be called Dimli or Kirmanjki, neatly exemplifying the
> concept of a macrolanguage.  The strings "individual language" and
> "macrolanguage" are used extensively in 639-3 for this
> purpose; see, for
> example, Dogri.

My preference would be to remove Dimli and Kirmanjki as alternative
descriptions for zza, if ISO 639-3 RA does so. Failing that, I support
your suggestion, even if ISO 639-3 RA continues to ignore the issue.

                /kent k

_______________________________________________
Ietf-languages mailing list
Ietf-languages@alvestrand.no
http://www.alvestrand.no/mailman/listinfo/ietf-languages
--=_alternative 0059B317862574B0_=-- --===============1374104622== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru --===============1374104622==-- From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Mon Aug 25 17:41:04 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ltru-archive@megatron.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB9783A68E7; Mon, 25 Aug 2008 17:41:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E124D3A68E7 for ; Mon, 25 Aug 2008 17:41:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.541 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.541 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.472, BAYES_50=0.001, FAKE_REPLY_C=2.012, STOX_REPLY_TYPE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Jz3i8roOdeXM for ; Mon, 25 Aug 2008 17:41:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpauth17.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net (smtpauth17.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net [64.202.165.29]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id C5FC43A68C6 for ; Mon, 25 Aug 2008 17:41:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 10253 invoked from network); 26 Aug 2008 00:41:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (67.177.232.210) by smtpauth17.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net (64.202.165.29) with ESMTP; 26 Aug 2008 00:41:00 -0000 Message-ID: <4643C221EEBB419F9B12F7A34D2CE8B9@DGBP7M81> From: "Doug Ewell" To: "LTRU Working Group" Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 18:40:57 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5512 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 Subject: Re: [Ltru] Results of Duplicate Busters Survey #1 X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org S2VudCBLYXJsc3NvbiA8a2VudCBkb3Qga2FybHNzb24xNCBhdCBjb21oZW0gZG90IHNlPiB3cm90 ZToKCj4gTXkgcHJlZmVyZW5jZSB3b3VsZCBiZSB0byByZW1vdmUgRGltbGkgYW5kIEtpcm1hbmpr aSBhcyBhbHRlcm5hdGl2ZQo+IGRlc2NyaXB0aW9ucyBmb3IgenphLCBpZiBJU08gNjM5LTMgUkEg ZG9lcyBzby4KCkkgd291bGQgYWx3YXlzIGNob29zZSB0byBmb2xsb3cgdGhlIElTTyA2MzktMyBz b2x1dGlvbiwgaWYgb25lIGV4aXN0cy4KSSdtIGRlbGlnaHRlZCB0byBzZWUgdGhhdCB0aGV5IGhh dmUgYmVlbiByZWNlcHRpdmUgdG8gc29sdmluZyB0aGlzCnByb2JsZW0sIHdoaWNoIGlzIG5vdCB0 aGVpciBvd24uCgo+IEZhaWxpbmcgdGhhdCwgSSBzdXBwb3J0IHlvdXIgc3VnZ2VzdGlvbiwgZXZl 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ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFBF93A686E; Mon, 25 Aug 2008 21:49:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB0D93A686E for ; Mon, 25 Aug 2008 21:49:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.693 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.693 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.691, BAYES_50=0.001, STOX_REPLY_TYPE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id f0V5GGumMOkC for ; Mon, 25 Aug 2008 21:49:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpauth03.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net (smtpauth03.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net [64.202.165.183]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id CD9CD3A67B3 for ; Mon, 25 Aug 2008 21:49:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 17774 invoked from network); 26 Aug 2008 04:49:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (67.177.232.210) by smtpauth03.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net (64.202.165.183) with ESMTP; 26 Aug 2008 04:49:54 -0000 Message-ID: <469D8E759C214EBBA028DA24C8AD9782@DGBP7M81> From: "Doug Ewell" To: , "LTRU Working Group" Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 22:49:51 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5512 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 Cc: Michael Everson Subject: [Ltru] Results of Duplicate Busters Survey #2 X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org 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Aug 26 03:06:24 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ltru-archive@megatron.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADCC53A6ACE; Tue, 26 Aug 2008 03:06:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 913CE3A6ACE for ; Tue, 26 Aug 2008 03:06:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.507 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.507 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.042, BAYES_50=0.001, FB_CIALIS_LEO3=3.899, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wFr5Q8pQ7VUA for ; Tue, 26 Aug 2008 03:06:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hermes2.insee.fr (hermes2.insee.fr [194.254.38.69]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6FCC3A6AC3 for ; Tue, 26 Aug 2008 03:06:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from evariste.insee.fr (unknown [194.254.38.143]) by hermes2.insee.fr (Insee Mail server) with ESMTP id 1A6C63BA26D; Tue, 26 Aug 2008 12:06:19 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by evariste.insee.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id E952B79401E; Tue, 26 Aug 2008 12:06:18 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at insee.fr Received: from evariste.insee.fr ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (evariste.insee.fr [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 15GWujNdg7eL; Tue, 26 Aug 2008 12:06:18 +0200 (CEST) Received: from s90x2smtp.ad.insee.intra (unknown [194.254.38.144]) by evariste.insee.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC28E79401F; Tue, 26 Aug 2008 12:06:18 +0200 (CEST) Received: from S90X2HUB1.ad.insee.intra ([10.90.200.50]) by s90x2smtp.ad.insee.intra with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Tue, 26 Aug 2008 12:06:18 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 12:06:18 +0200 Message-ID: <68723E6B2E0EDC4999504D17DDE8F94904AD070C@S90X2HUB1.ad.insee.intra> In-Reply-To: <20080825041053.GA23099@mercury.ccil.org> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [Ltru] [private] Re: Registry updated Thread-Index: AckGaxzFu5AlLXtISqCYFM28fUwaVgAXRf0A References: <20080819184003.0FDF13BA269@hermes2.insee.fr> <68723E6B2E0EDC4999504D17DDE8F94904AD06F2@S90X2HUB1.ad.insee.intra> <68723E6B2E0EDC4999504D17DDE8F94904AD06F5@S90X2HUB1.ad.insee.intra> <4D4A25EEF3A541A4AC195EE86E928B54@DGBP7M81> <68723E6B2E0EDC4999504D17DDE8F94904AD06FC@S90X2HUB1.ad.insee.intra> <536D3DB8C2B14CD083F032A1467FE3FC@DGBP7M81> <68723E6B2E0EDC4999504D17DDE8F94904AD06FE@S90X2HUB1.ad.insee.intra> <28A5AB79A97144228B72DB68A394830D@DGBP7M81> <20080825041053.GA23099@mercury.ccil.org> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Lang_G=E9rard?= To: "John Cowan" , "Doug Ewell" , , , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Aug 2008 10:06:18.0901 (UTC) FILETIME=[624B0450:01C90763] Cc: LTRU Working Group , =?iso-8859-1?Q?Lang_G=E9rard?= Subject: Re: [Ltru] [private] Re: Registry updated X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Let me give some more comments about my previous exchanges with Doug Ewell,= and some remarks about them. 1- I already indicated in a previous exchange with Doug Ewell that ISO cent= ral Secretary is seriously considering a decision to make all ISO 3166-1 an= d ISO 3166-2 code lists freely available. 2-Concerning my request for the creation of "Neglish" (nel) inside ISO 639-= 3, let me remark that even is jokingly presented by parralelism with "Europ= anto" (eur), the two cases are completely different. When Europanto, if exi= sting, is described as a purely artificial language only spoken by bureaucr= ats located in Brussels, Neglish is a purely genuine spoken language, defin= ed for reference as born among NATO's bureucrats, build as an enrichment of= English language with many words coming from different others languages (f= rench, german, spanish, ..) and not plainly respecting english grammar, tha= t is massively spoken in our today's world, specially for international rel= ations of all kinds, certainly by more people than the people speaking onl= y pure english language, that all have a good interintelligibity (and this = would not be the case with English language only). 3-The common normative history of ISO 639 and ISO 3166 goes back to Novembe= r 1967, when ISO (after work on this question beginning in 1951 and submitt= ed to inquiry in 1964) published recommendation R 639 (1st edition) "Symbol= s for languages, countries and authorities", includind 4 parts: 1 Language = symbols; 2 Country symbols; 3 Symbols of Authorities; 4 Combination of symb= ols. Authorities were there understood as ISO national body members. Annex a gave a classified list of languages and their symbols, arranged by = families, following the UDC. Annex B gave for each of a list of 38 language names an alpha-2 language = symbol (and also another alpha-1 language symbol for 10 of them), as well = as a numeric-3 index given by the Universal Decimal Classification (UDC). Annex D gave a classified list of country and standard symbols, with for ea= ch of the 50 coutries in the list a numerc UDC iondex, An alpha-1 or alpha-= 2 or alpha-3 country symbol and a standards symbol (like USAS fior USA, BS = for GB or NF for France). After that, the story goes on as follows: = ISO R 639 (November 1967), 1st edition Symbols for Languages, Countries and Authorities (NOT FACE A FACE BILINGUAL ENGLISH/FRENCH) = ISO 3166 (15/12/1974), 1st edition (NOT FAC= E A FACE BILINGUAL ENGLISH/FRENCH) = Codes for the representation of names of coun= tries = = (224 entries, with each an alpha-2 code eleme= nt and an alpha-3 code element) = ISO 3166 (15/05/1981), 2nd edition [replaces= ISO 3166: 1974] = = Codes for the representation of names of coun= tries = (220 entries, with each an alpha-2, an alpha-= 3 code element AND a numeric-3 code element) ISO 639 (01/04/1988), 1st edition [replaces ISO R 639] = ISO 3166 (15/08/1988), 3rd edition [replaces ISO 3166 1981] Code for the representation of names of languages = Codes for the representation of names of countries (136 entries, with each an alpha-2 code element, but "jw") = (221 entries, with each an alpha-2, an alpha-3 and a numeric-3 code el= ement) = ISO 3166 (15/09/1993), 4th edition [replace= s ISO 3166 1988] = Codes for the representartion of names of cou= ntries = (229 entries, with each an alpha-2 an alpha-3= and a numeric-3 code element) [ RFC 1766 (March 1995), (ONLY ENGLISH) Tags for the Identification of Languages ] = [ AFNOR XP Z 44-002 (August 1997) = Code for the representation of names of histo= ric countries (ONLY FRENCH) = (About 1330 entries, with each an alpha-5 cod= e element, giving the history of country names = = from 1815 [Congress of Vienna) to 1974, publ= ication of the first edition of ISO 3166) ] = = ISO 3166-1 (01/10/1997),1st edition [ISO 3166= 5th edition, replaces ISO 3166 1993] = Codes for the representation of names of count= ries and their subdivisions = Part 1: Country codes = (238 entries, with each an alpha-2, an alpha-3= and a numeric-3 code element) ISO 639-2 (22/10/1998), 1st edition = ISO 3166-2 (15/10/1998), 1st edition Codes for the representation of names of languages = Codes for the representation of names of countries and their subdivisio= ns Part 2: Alpha-3 code = Part 2: Country subdivision code (430 entries, with each an alpha-3 "T" code elements, = (About 6000 entries, each represented with a chain of characters of len= gth max 6, beginning = and in 23 cases anorther alpha-3 "B" code element) = with the alpha-2 code element of the considered country, followed by a= n hyphen) = ISO 3166-3 (01/04/1999), 1st edition = Codes for the representation of names of countr= ies and their subdivisions = Part 3: Code for formerly used names of countri= es = (26 entries, each with an alpha-4 code element) [ RFC 3066 (January 2001) [obsoletes RFC 1766] Tags for the Identification of Languages (ONLY ENGLISH) ] ISO 639-1 (15/07/2002), 1st edition [replaces ISO 639] Codes for the representation of names of languages Part 1: Alpha-2 codes (182 entries, with each an alpha-2 code element) ISO 15924 (04/02/2004), 1st edition Code for the representation of names of scripts (103 entries, each with an alpha-4 and a numeric-3 code element) [ RFC 4646 (September 2006) [obsoletes RFC 3066] = [ AFNOR XP Z 44-020 (25/09/2006) Tags for Identifying Languages (ONLY ENGLISH)] = Code for the representation of names of Oceans and Seas (ONLY FRENCH) = (About 500 entries, each represented by a chai= n of characters beginning by a letter = = representing the considered Ocean, followed by= a numeric chain representing the Seas)] = ISO 3166-1 (15/11/2006), 2nd edition [replaces = ISO 3166-1 1997] = Codes for the representation of names of countr= ies and their subdivisions = Part 1: Country codes = (244 entries, 193 independant countries and 51 = others territories with geopolitical interest, = with each an alpha-2, an alpha-3 and a numeric = 3 code element) ISO 639-3 (01/02/2007) = ISO 3166-2 (15/12/2007), 2nd edition [replaces ISO 3166-2 = 1998] Codes for the representation of names of languages = Codes for the representation of names of countries and their subdivisions Part 3: Alpha-3 code for comprehensive coverage of = Part 2 : Country subdivision code = languages (NOT BILINGUAL FACE A FACE ENGLISH/FRENCH) (About 7000 en= tries, representing high level administrative subdivisions of each independ= ant (About 7000 entries, with each an alpha-3 code element) = country inside ISO 3166-1, but Monaco and Vatican, and also for 2 others t= errritories, each = represented by a chain of characters of length m= ax 6) ISO 639-5 (15/05/2008) Codes for the representation of names of languages Part 5: Alpha-3 code for language families and groups (114 entries, each with an alpha-3 code element) [RFC 4646 bis (08/07/2008) Tags for Identidfying Languages draft (ONLY ENGLISH) Links between all these documents arte as follows: ISO 639 (1988) only normative reference is ISO 3166, and its clause 4.4 is = "Application of the country symbols" RFC 1766 (1995) refers to ISO 639 (1988), and also to ISO 3166 (1988) but n= ot to ISO 3166 (1993) [why ?] ISO 3166-1 (1997) gives ISO 639 (1988) not as a normative reference, but as= a bibliographic reference with others ISO standards using ISO 3166 ISO 639-2 (1998) only normative reference is ISO 3166-1 (1997), and its cla= use 4.4 is "Application of the country code" ISO 3166-2 (1998) gives ISO 3166-1 (1997) and ISO 639 (1988) among its norm= ative references, and uses ISO 639 inside its annex C (informative) to pro= duce an index of ISO 639 language code elerments used for the representatio= bn of official languages of countries ISO 3166-3 (1999) gives ISO 3166-1 (1997) among its normative references RFC 3066 (2001) refers to ISO 639 (1988), ISO 639-2 (1998), and ISO 3166 (1= 988), but not ISO 3166-1 (1997) that seems curious because RFC 3066 also q= uasi-refers to the future ISO 639-1 (2000), that will in fact be ISO 639-1 = (2002). Also, ISO 3166-2 (1998) is not referenced inside RFC 31-066, but is= in fact directly used by the example sgn-US-MA given inside point 2.2 "Lan= guage tag sources". ISO 639-1 (2002) gives only the three parts of ISO 3166, ISO 3166-1 (1997),= ISO 3166-2 (1998) and ISO 3166-3 (1999) as normative references, and its c= lause 4.4 "Application of the country code" explicitely gives both examples= "en US-NY" and "fr FR-75". ISO 15924 (2004) gives ISO 639-2 (1998) among its normative references, but= ISO 639-2 and ISO 3166-1 (1997) are also given in the Bibliography, and in= fact definition 3.3 is about "country code", so that ISO 3166 is effective= ly used by ISO 15924 RFC 4646 (2006) gives as normative references ISO 15924 (2004), ISO 3166-1 = (1997), ISO 639-1 (2002), ISO 639-2 (1998) and also UNSTAT's M49, but not I= SO 3166-2 (1998). = 08/07/2008ISO 3166-1 (2006) gives ISO 639-1 and ISO 639-2 among its normati= ve references, and uses them in informative columns 9 and 10 of tables 9 an= d 10 that give the list of code elements of administrative languages (defin= ed in clause 6.2) of each entry. ISO 3166-2 (2007) gives ISO 3166-1 (2006) among its normative references an= d uses ISO 639-1 (2002) for each entry inside table 8 "List of country subd= ivision names and their code elements" to give the list of administrative l= anguages of this entry. Also Annex C (informative) "Index of ISO 639-1 name= s of alpha-2 languages code element used" uses ISO 639-1. = RFC 4646 bis (2008) gives as normative references ISO 15924 (2004), ISO 316= 6-1 (2006), ISO 639-1 (2002), ISO 639-2 (1998), ISO 639-3 (2007), ISO 639-5= (2008) and also UNSTAT's M49, but not ISO 3166-2 (2007). It could also refer to IS= O 8601 that is used at the end of point 3.1.1 "File Format" for the represe= ntation of the gregorian calendar. = 4-So, combination of ISO 639-1 or 639-2 code elements with ISO 3166-1 or IS= O 3166-2 code elements has already been documented many times, as well in I= SO 3166 that in ISO 639, or even in RFC 3066. So, it only seems natural to= introduce ISO 3166-2 code elements inside the "region type" of IANA's Regi= ster. 5-Moreover, as ISO 639-3, and ISO 15924 as well, are developping an histori= c view on language name, it would also be natural to introduce an historic = view on country names. Clearly ISO 3166-3, that begins history in 1974 (in = thesame manner that IANA's Register begins history in 2005 !), in not an ad= equate reference for this, and AFNOR XP Z 44-002 could be a better one. Bien cordialement. G=E9rard LANG = = -----Message d'origine----- De : John Cowan [mailto:cowan@ccil.org] = Envoy=E9 : lundi 25 ao=FBt 2008 06:11 =C0 : Doug Ewell Cc : LTRU Working Group; Lang G=E9rard Objet : Re: [Ltru] [private] Re: Registry updated Doug Ewell scripsit: > Reserving a singleton to introduce a 3166-2-based subtag would be = > syntactically feasible, and has been suggested for other situations, The trouble is that 3166-2 is neither stable nor publicly available. -- John Cowan cowan@ccil.org http://ccil.org/~cowan In computer science, we = stand on each other's feet. --Brian K. Reid _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Tue Aug 26 06:49:32 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ltru-archive@megatron.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A38D3A6B67; Tue, 26 Aug 2008 06:49:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD0523A6B57 for ; Tue, 26 Aug 2008 06:49:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 2.029 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.029 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.521, BAYES_50=0.001, FB_CIALIS_LEO3=3.899, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gJiEKijZDbYF for ; Tue, 26 Aug 2008 06:49:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hermes2.insee.fr (hermes2.insee.fr [194.254.38.69]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8154A3A6B5E for ; Tue, 26 Aug 2008 06:49:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from evariste.insee.fr (unknown [194.254.38.143]) by hermes2.insee.fr (Insee Mail server) with ESMTP id 1DE083BA26A; Tue, 26 Aug 2008 15:49:09 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by evariste.insee.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE1D679401F; Tue, 26 Aug 2008 15:49:08 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at insee.fr Received: from evariste.insee.fr ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (evariste.insee.fr [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3UZKETCRTLoP; Tue, 26 Aug 2008 15:49:08 +0200 (CEST) Received: from s90x2smtp.ad.insee.intra (unknown [194.254.38.144]) by evariste.insee.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 921AD79401E; Tue, 26 Aug 2008 15:49:08 +0200 (CEST) Received: from S90X2HUB1.ad.insee.intra ([10.90.200.50]) by s90x2smtp.ad.insee.intra with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Tue, 26 Aug 2008 15:49:08 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 15:49:08 +0200 Message-ID: <68723E6B2E0EDC4999504D17DDE8F94904AD070D@S90X2HUB1.ad.insee.intra> In-Reply-To: <68723E6B2E0EDC4999504D17DDE8F94904AD070C@S90X2HUB1.ad.insee.intra> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [Ltru] [private] Re: Registry updated Thread-Index: AckGaxzFu5AlLXtISqCYFM28fUwaVgAXRf0AACyqW0A= References: <20080819184003.0FDF13BA269@hermes2.insee.fr> <68723E6B2E0EDC4999504D17DDE8F94904AD06F2@S90X2HUB1.ad.insee.intra> <68723E6B2E0EDC4999504D17DDE8F94904AD06F5@S90X2HUB1.ad.insee.intra> <4D4A25EEF3A541A4AC195EE86E928B54@DGBP7M81> <68723E6B2E0EDC4999504D17DDE8F94904AD06FC@S90X2HUB1.ad.insee.intra> <536D3DB8C2B14CD083F032A1467FE3FC@DGBP7M81> <68723E6B2E0EDC4999504D17DDE8F94904AD06FE@S90X2HUB1.ad.insee.intra> <28A5AB79A97144228B72DB68A394830D@DGBP7M81> <20080825041053.GA23099@mercury.ccil.org> <68723E6B2E0EDC4999504D17DDE8F94904AD070C@S90X2HUB1.ad.insee.intra> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Lang_G=E9rard?= To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Lang_G=E9rard?= , "John Cowan" , "Doug Ewell" , , , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Aug 2008 13:49:08.0886 (UTC) FILETIME=[836CD360:01C90782] Cc: LTRU Working Group , =?iso-8859-1?Q?Lang_G=E9rard?= Subject: Re: [Ltru] [private] Re: Registry updated X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org 4 bis: The following informations should be inserted at their places at the= end of point 4 of my previous message: AFNOR XP Z 44-002 (1997) gives among its normative references NF EN 23166 = (1994), that is the european endorsement by CEN and AFNOR of ISO 3166 (1993= ), ISO/DIS 3166-1 (1996), ISO/DIS 3166-2 (1997), and ISO/DIS 3166-3 (1997) = AFNOR XP Z 44-020 (2006) gives as normative references NF EN 3166-1 (1997)= , that is the european endorsement by CEN and AFNOR of ISO 3166-1 (1997), a= nd = NF EN 639-1 (2002) that is the european endorsement by CEN and AFNOR of IS= O 639-1 (2002), that is used inside point 3.2 "Glossary of generic terms". = Bibliography of AFNOR's XP Z 44-020 also refers to the document Spec= ial Publication n=B0 23 " Limits of Oceans and Seas", third edition (1953) = of IHO (International Hydrographic Organization), as well as Special Public= ation 23's document fourth edition final draft (2001). ISO 639-3 (2007) gives as only normative references ISO 3166-1 and ISO 159= 24, but point 4.4 is about "Relationship between ISO 639-2 and ISO 639-3" a= nd also point 4.7 is about "Scripts and regions" = ISO 639-5 (2208) gives as only normative reference ISO 639-2 (1998), and po= int 4.2 is about "Language identifiers that are also included in ISO 639-2"= and also Annex A (informative) is about "Groups and remainder groups in = ISO 639-2" = Bien cordialement G=E9rard LANG = -----Message d'origine----- De : Lang G=E9rard = Envoy=E9 : mardi 26 ao=FBt 2008 12:06 = =C0 : 'John Cowan'; Doug Ewell; 'iso639-2@loc.gov'; ISO639-3@sil.org; Joan_= Spanne@sil.org Cc : LTRU Working Group; Lang G=E9rard Objet : RE: [Ltru] [private] Re: Registry updated Let me give some more comments about my previous exchanges with Doug Ewell,= and some remarks about them. 1- I already indicated in a previous exchange with Doug Ewell that ISO cent= ral Secretary is seriously considering a decision to make all ISO 3166-1 an= d ISO 3166-2 code lists freely available. 2-Concerning my request for the creation of "Neglish" (nel) inside ISO 639-= 3, let me remark that even is jokingly presented by parralelism with "Europ= anto" (eur), the two cases are completely different. When Europanto, if exi= sting, is described as a purely artificial language only spoken by bureaucr= ats located in Brussels, Neglish is a purely genuine spoken language, defin= ed for reference as born among NATO's bureucrats, build as an enrichment of= English language with many words coming from different others languages (f= rench, german, spanish, ..) and not plainly respecting english grammar, tha= t is massively spoken in our today's world, specially for international rel= ations of all kinds, certainly by more people than the people speaking onl= y pure english language, that all have a good interintelligibity (and this = would not be the case with English language only). 3-The common normative history of ISO 639 and ISO 3166 goes back to Novembe= r 1967, when ISO (after work on this question beginning in 1951 and submitt= ed to inquiry in 1964) published recommendation R 639 (1st edition) "Symbol= s for languages, countries and authorities", includind 4 parts: 1 Language = symbols; 2 Country symbols; 3 Symbols of Authorities; 4 Combination of symb= ols. Authorities were there understood as ISO national body members. Annex a gave a classified list of languages and their symbols, arranged by = families, following the UDC. Annex B gave for each of a list of 38 language names an alpha-2 language = symbol (and also another alpha-1 language symbol for 10 of them), as well = as a numeric-3 index given by the Universal Decimal Classification (UDC). Annex D gave a classified list of country and standard symbols, with for ea= ch of the 50 coutries in the list a numerc UDC iondex, An alpha-1 or alpha-= 2 or alpha-3 country symbol and a standards symbol (like USAS fior USA, BS = for GB or NF for France). After that, the story goes on as follows: = ISO R 639 (November 1967), 1st edition Symbols for Languages, Countries and Authorities (NOT FACE A FACE BILINGU= AL ENGLISH/FRENCH) = ISO 3166 (15/12/1974), 1st edition (NOT FAC= E A FACE BILINGUAL ENGLISH/FRENCH) = Codes for the representation of names of coun= tries = = (224 entries, with each an alpha-2 code eleme= nt and an alpha-3 code element) = ISO 3166 (15/05/1981), 2nd edition [replaces= ISO 3166: 1974] = = Codes for the representation of names of coun= tries = (220 entries, with each an alpha-2, an alpha-= 3 code element AND a numeric-3 code element) ISO 639 (01/04/1988), 1st edition [replaces ISO R 639] = ISO 3166 (15/08/1988), 3rd edition [replaces ISO 3166 1981] Code for the representation of names of languages = Codes for the representation of names of countries (136 entries, with each an alpha-2 code element, but "jw") = (221 entries, with each an alpha-2, an alpha-3 and a numeric-3 code el= ement) = ISO 3166 (15/09/1993), 4th edition [replace= s ISO 3166 1988] = Codes for the representartion of names of cou= ntries = (229 entries, with each an alpha-2 an alpha-3= and a numeric-3 code element) [ RFC 1766 (March 1995), (ONLY ENGLISH) Tags for the Identification of L= anguages ] = [ AFNOR XP Z 44-002 (August 1997) = Code for the representation of names of histo= ric countries (ONLY FRENCH) = (About 1330 entries, with each an alpha-5 cod= e element, giving the history of country names = = from 1815 [Congress of Vienna) to 1974, publ= ication of the first edition of ISO 3166) ] = = ISO 3166-1 (01/10/1997),1st edition [ISO 3166= 5th edition, replaces ISO 3166 1993] = Codes for the representation of names of count= ries and their subdivisions = Part 1: Country codes = (238 entries, with each an alpha-2, an alpha-3= and a numeric-3 code element) ISO 639-2 (22/10/1998), 1st edition = ISO 3166-2 (15/10/1998), 1st edition Codes for the representation of names of languages = Codes for the representation of names of countries and their subdivisio= ns Part 2: Alpha-3 code = Part 2: Country subdivision code (430 entries, with each an alpha-3 "T" code elements, = (About 6000 entries, each represented with a chain of characters of len= gth max 6, beginning = and in 23 cases anorther alpha-3 "B" code element) = with the alpha-2 code element of the considered country, followed by a= n hyphen) = ISO 3166-3 (01/04/1999), 1st edition = Codes for the representation of names of countr= ies and their subdivisions = Part 3: Code for formerly used names of countri= es = (26 entries, each with an alpha-4 code element) [ RFC 3066 (January 2001) [obsoletes RFC 1766] Tags for the Identificati= on of Languages (ONLY ENGLISH) ] ISO 639-1 (15/07/2002), 1st edition [replaces ISO 639] Codes for the rep= resentation of names of languages Part 1: Alpha-2 codes (182 entries, with each an alpha-2 code element) ISO 15924 (04/02/2004), 1st edition Code for the representation of names of scripts (103 entries, each with an alpha-4 and a numeric-3 code element) [ RFC 4646 (September 2006) [obsoletes RFC 3066] = [ AFNOR XP Z 44-020 (25/09/2006) Tags for Identifying Languages (ONLY ENGLISH)] = Code for the representation of names of Oceans and Seas (ONLY FRENCH) = (About 500 entries, each represented by a chai= n of characters beginning by a letter = = representing the considered Ocean, followed by= a numeric chain representing the Seas)] = ISO 3166-1 (15/11/2006), 2nd edition [replaces = ISO 3166-1 1997] = Codes for the representation of names of countr= ies and their subdivisions = Part 1: Country codes = (244 entries, 193 independant countries and 51 = others territories with geopolitical interest, = with each an alpha-2, an alpha-3 and a numeric = 3 code element) ISO 639-3 (01/02/2007) = ISO 3166-2 (15/12/2007), 2nd edition [replaces ISO 3166-2 = 1998] Codes for the representation of names of languages = Codes for the representation of names of countries and their subdivisions Part 3: Alpha-3 code for comprehensive coverage of = Part 2 : Country subdivision code = languages (NOT BILINGUAL FACE A FACE ENGLISH/FRENCH) (About 7000 en= tries, representing high level administrative subdivisions of each independ= ant (About 7000 entries, with each an alpha-3 code element) = country inside ISO 3166-1, but Monaco and Vatican, and also for 2 others t= errritories, each = represented by a chain of characters of length m= ax 6) ISO 639-5 (15/05/2008) Codes for the representation of names of languages Part 5: Alpha-3 code f= or language families and groups (114 entries, each with an alpha-3 code element) [RFC 4646 bis (08/07/2008) Tags for Identidfying Languages draft (ONLY ENGLISH) Links between all these documents arte as follows: ISO 639 (1988) only normative reference is ISO 3166, and its clause 4.4 is = "Application of the country symbols" RFC 1766 (1995) refers to ISO 639 (1988), and also to ISO 3166 (1988) but n= ot to ISO 3166 (1993) [why ?] ISO 3166-1 (1997) gives ISO 639 (1988) not as a normative reference, but as= a bibliographic reference with others ISO standards using ISO 3166 ISO 639-2 (1998) only normative reference is ISO 3166-1 (1997), and its cla= use 4.4 is "Application of the country code" ISO 3166-2 (1998) gives ISO 3166-1 (1997) and ISO 639 (1988) among its norm= ative references, and uses ISO 639 inside its annex C (informative) to pro= duce an index of ISO 639 language code elerments used for the representatio= bn of official languages of countries ISO 3166-3 (1999) gives ISO 3166-1 (1997) among its normative references RFC 3066 (2001) refers to ISO 639 (1988), ISO 639-2 (1998), and ISO 3166 (1= 988), but not ISO 3166-1 (1997) that seems curious because RFC 3066 also q= uasi-refers to the future ISO 639-1 (2000), that will in fact be ISO 639-1 = (2002). Also, ISO 3166-2 (1998) is not referenced inside RFC 31-066, but is= in fact directly used by the example sgn-US-MA given inside point 2.2 "Lan= guage tag sources". ISO 639-1 (2002) gives only the three parts of ISO 3166, ISO 3166-1 (1997),= ISO 3166-2 (1998) and ISO 3166-3 (1999) as normative references, and its c= lause 4.4 "Application of the country code" explicitely gives both examples= "en US-NY" and "fr FR-75". ISO 15924 (2004) gives ISO 639-2 (1998) among its normative references, but= ISO 639-2 and ISO 3166-1 (1997) are also given in the Bibliography, and in= fact definition 3.3 is about "country code", so that ISO 3166 is effective= ly used by ISO 15924 RFC 4646 (2006) gives as normative references ISO 15924 (2004), ISO 3166-1 = (1997), ISO 639-1 (2002), ISO 639-2 (1998) and also UNSTAT's M49, but not I= SO 3166-2 (1998). = ISO 3166-1 (2006) gives ISO 639-1 and ISO 639-2 among its normative referen= ces, and uses them in informative columns 9 and 10 of tables 9 and 10 that = give the list of code elements of administrative languages (defined in clau= se 6.2) of each entry. ISO 3166-2 (2007) gives ISO 3166-1 (2006) among its normative references an= d uses ISO 639-1 (2002) for each entry inside table 8 "List of country subd= ivision names and their code elements" to give the list of administrative l= anguages of this entry. Also Annex C (informative) "Index of ISO 639-1 name= s of alpha-2 languages code element used" uses ISO 639-1. = RFC 4646 bis (2008) gives as normative references ISO 15924 (2004), ISO 316= 6-1 (2006), ISO 639-1 (2002), ISO 639-2 (1998), ISO 639-3 (2007), ISO 639-5= (2008) and also UNSTAT's M49, but not ISO 3166-2 (2007). It could also ref= er to ISO 8601 that is used at the end of point 3.1.1 "File Format" for the= representation of the gregorian calendar. = 4-So, combination of ISO 639-1 or 639-2 code elements with ISO 3166-1 or IS= O 3166-2 code elements has already been documented many times, as well in I= SO 3166 that in ISO 639, or even in RFC 3066. So, it only seems natural to= introduce ISO 3166-2 code elements inside the "region type" of IANA's Regi= ster. 5-Moreover, as ISO 639-3, and ISO 15924 as well, are developping an histori= c view on language name, it would also be natural to introduce an historic = view on country names. Clearly ISO 3166-3, that begins history in 1974 (in = thesame manner that IANA's Register begins history in 2005 !), in not an ad= equate reference for this, and AFNOR XP Z 44-002 could be a better one. Bien cordialement. G=E9rard LANG = = -----Message d'origine----- De : John Cowan [mailto:cowan@ccil.org] Envoy=E9 : lundi 25 ao=FBt 2008 06:= 11 =C0 : Doug Ewell Cc : LTRU Working Group; Lang G=E9rard Objet : Re: [Ltr= u] [private] Re: Registry updated Doug Ewell scripsit: > Reserving a singleton to introduce a 3166-2-based subtag would be = > syntactically feasible, and has been suggested for other situations, The trouble is that 3166-2 is neither stable nor publicly available. -- John Cowan cowan@ccil.org http://ccil.org/~cowan In computer science, we = stand on each other's feet. --Brian K. Reid _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Tue Aug 26 10:51:41 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ltru-archive@megatron.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38FC828C218; Tue, 26 Aug 2008 10:51:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D6E228C215 for ; Tue, 26 Aug 2008 10:51:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.95 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.95 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.950, BAYES_50=0.001, FB_CIALIS_LEO3=3.899, GB_I_LETTER=-2] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Zwl1N8eDuqZS for ; Tue, 26 Aug 2008 10:51:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.70]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D75828C1F7 for ; Tue, 26 Aug 2008 10:51:38 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=mindspring.com; b=RLoTkMgkogV09RQyT8mp4+t42FgCnU5ajj2kTi0tefsyrKpkhlyyg3ZMdcskZH7n; h=Received:Message-ID:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [69.3.146.220] (helo=oemcomputer) by elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1KY2hd-0004OL-3D for ltru@ietf.org; Tue, 26 Aug 2008 13:51:37 -0400 Message-ID: <007401c907a4$97fad940$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> From: "Randy Presuhn" To: "LTRU Working Group" References: <20080819184003.0FDF13BA269@hermes2.insee.fr><68723E6B2E0EDC4999504D17DDE8F94904AD06F2@S90X2HUB1.ad.insee.intra><68723E6B2E0EDC4999504D17DDE8F94904AD06F5@S90X2HUB1.ad.insee.intra><4D4A25EEF3A541A4AC195EE86E928B54@DGBP7M81><68723E6B2E0EDC4999504D17DDE8F94904AD06FC@S90X2HUB1.ad.insee.intra><536D3DB8C2B14CD083F032A1467FE3FC@DGBP7M81><68723E6B2E0EDC4999504D17DDE8F94904AD06FE@S90X2HUB1.ad.insee.intra><28A5AB79A97144228B72DB68A394830D@DGBP7M81><20080825041053.GA23099@mercury.ccil.org><68723E6B2E0EDC4999504D17DDE8F94904AD070C@S90X2HUB1.ad.insee.intra> <68723E6B2E0EDC4999504D17DDE8F94904AD070D@S90X2HUB1.ad.insee.intra> Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 10:53:05 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-ELNK-Trace: 4488c18417c9426da92b9037bc8bcf44d4c20f6b8d69d888a63b7957ab9b23b31bcd5f90443b95b3bc122dcbb924756c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 69.3.146.220 Subject: Re: [Ltru] Registry updated X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Hi - Gerard - Your last two postings are quite off-topic for this WG. Please stick to matters that are within our charter and which have not already been resolved. Randy ltru co-chair ----- Original Message ----- = From: "Lang G=E9rard" To: "Lang G=E9rard" ; "John Cowan" ; = "Doug Ewell" ; ; ; Cc: "LTRU Working Group" ; "Lang G=E9rard" Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 6:49 AM Subject: Re: [Ltru] [private] Re: Registry updated 4 bis: The following informations should be inserted at their places at the= end of point 4 of my previous message: AFNOR XP Z 44-002 (1997) gives among its normative references NF EN 23166 = (1994), that is the european endorsement by CEN and AFNOR of ISO 3166 (1993), ISO/DIS 3166-1 (1996), ISO/DIS 3166-2 (1997), and ISO/D= IS 3166-3 (1997) AFNOR XP Z 44-020 (2006) gives as normative references NF EN 3166-1 (1997)= , that is the european endorsement by CEN and AFNOR of ISO 3166-1 (1997), and NF EN 639-1 (2002) that is the european endorsement by CEN and AFNOR of IS= O 639-1 (2002), that is used inside point 3.2 "Glossary of generic terms". Bibliography of AFNOR's XP Z 44-020 also refers t= o the document Special Publication n=B0 23 " Limits of Oceans and Seas", third edition (1953) of IHO (International Hydrographic O= rganization), as well as Special Publication 23's document fourth edition final draft (2001). ISO 639-3 (2007) gives as only normative references ISO 3166-1 and ISO 159= 24, but point 4.4 is about "Relationship between ISO 639-2 and ISO 639-3" and also point 4.7 is about "Scripts and regions" ISO 639-5 (2208) gives as only normative reference ISO 639-2 (1998), and po= int 4.2 is about "Language identifiers that are also included in ISO 639-2" and also Annex A (informative) is about "Groups and= remainder groups in ISO 639-2" Bien cordialement G=E9rard LANG -----Message d'origine----- De : Lang G=E9rard Envoy=E9 : mardi 26 ao=FBt 2008 12:06 =C0 : 'John Cowan'; Doug Ewell; 'iso639-2@loc.gov'; ISO639-3@sil.org; Joan_= Spanne@sil.org Cc : LTRU Working Group; Lang G=E9rard Objet : RE: [Ltru] [private] Re: Registry updated Let me give some more comments about my previous exchanges with Doug Ewell,= and some remarks about them. 1- I already indicated in a previous exchange with Doug Ewell that ISO cent= ral Secretary is seriously considering a decision to make all ISO 3166-1 and ISO 3166-2 code lists freely available. 2-Concerning my request for the creation of "Neglish" (nel) inside ISO 639-= 3, let me remark that even is jokingly presented by parralelism with "Europanto" (eur), the two cases are completely different.= When Europanto, if existing, is described as a purely artificial language only spoken by bureaucrats located in Brussels, Neglish= is a purely genuine spoken language, defined for reference as born among NATO's bureucrats, build as an enrichment of Englis= h language with many words coming from different others languages (french, german, spanish, ..) and not plainly respecting english = grammar, that is massively spoken in our today's world, specially for international relations of all kinds, certainly by more peop= le than the people speaking only pure english language, that all have a good interintelligibity (and this would not be the case wit= h English language only). 3-The common normative history of ISO 639 and ISO 3166 goes back to Novembe= r 1967, when ISO (after work on this question beginning in 1951 and submitted to inquiry in 1964) published recommendation R 639 (1= st edition) "Symbols for languages, countries and authorities", includind 4 parts: 1 Language symbols; 2 Country symbols; 3 S= ymbols of Authorities; 4 Combination of symbols. Authorities were there understood as ISO national body members. Annex a gave a classified list of languages and their symbols, arranged by = families, following the UDC. Annex B gave for each of a list of 38 language names an alpha-2 language = symbol (and also another alpha-1 language symbol for 10 of them), as well as a numeric-3 index given by the Universal Decimal Class= ification (UDC). Annex D gave a classified list of country and standard symbols, with for ea= ch of the 50 coutries in the list a numerc UDC iondex, An alpha-1 or alpha-2 or alpha-3 country symbol and a standards symbol (like U= SAS fior USA, BS for GB or NF for France). After that, the story goes on as follows: ISO R 639 (November 1967), 1st edition Symbols for Languages, Countries and Authorities (NOT FACE A FACE BILINGU= AL ENGLISH/FRENCH) = ISO 3166 (15/12/1974), 1st edition (NOT FACE A FACE BILINGUAL ENGLISH/FRENCH) = Codes for the representation of names of countries = (224 entries, with each an alpha-2 code element and an alpha-3 code element) = ISO 3166 (15/05/1981), 2nd edition [replaces ISO 3166: 1974] = Codes for the representation of names of countries = (220 entries, with each an alpha-2, an alpha-3 code element AND a numeric-3 code element) ISO 639 (01/04/1988), 1st edition [replaces ISO R 639] = ISO 3166 (15/08/1988), 3rd edition [replaces ISO 3166 1981] Code for the representation of names of languages = Codes for the representation of names of countries (136 entries, with each an alpha-2 code element, but "jw") = (221 entries, with each an alpha-2, an alpha-3 and a numeric-3 code element) = ISO 3166 (15/09/1993), 4th edition [replaces ISO 3166 1988] = Codes for the representartion of names of countries = (229 entries, with each an alpha-2 an alpha-3 and a numeric-3 code element) [ RFC 1766 (March 1995), (ONLY ENGLISH) Tags for the Identification of L= anguages ] = [ AFNOR XP Z 44-002 (August 1997) = Code for the representation of names of historic countries (ONLY FRENCH) = (About 1330 entries, with each an alpha-5 code element, giving the history of country names = from 1815 [Congress of Vienna) to 1974, publication of the first edition of ISO 3166) ] = ISO 3166-1 (01/10/1997),1st edition [ISO 3166 5th edition, replaces ISO 3166 1993] = Codes for the representation of names of countries and their subdivisions = Part 1: Country codes = (238 entries, with each an alpha-2, an alpha-3 and a numeric-3 code element) ISO 639-2 (22/10/1998), 1st edition = ISO 3166-2 (15/10/1998), 1st edition Codes for the representation of names of languages = Codes for the representation of names of countries and their subdivisions Part 2: Alpha-3 code = Part 2: Country subdivision code (430 entries, with each an alpha-3 "T" code elements, = (About 6000 entries, each represented with a chain of characters of length max 6, beginning and in 23 cases anorther alpha-3 "B" code element) = with the alpha-2 code element of the considered country, followed by an hyphen) = ISO 3166-3 (01/04/1999), 1st edition = Codes for the representation of names of countries and their subdivisions = Part 3: Code for formerly used names of countries = (26 entries, each with an alpha-4 code element) [ RFC 3066 (January 2001) [obsoletes RFC 1766] Tags for the Identificati= on of Languages (ONLY ENGLISH) ] ISO 639-1 (15/07/2002), 1st edition [replaces ISO 639] Codes for the rep= resentation of names of languages Part 1: Alpha-2 codes (182 entries, with each an alpha-2 code element) ISO 15924 (04/02/2004), 1st edition Code for the representation of names of scripts (103 entries, each with an alpha-4 and a numeric-3 code element) [ RFC 4646 (September 2006) [obsoletes RFC 3066] = [ AFNOR XP Z 44-020 (25/09/2006) Tags for Identifying Languages (ONLY ENGLISH)] = Code for the representation of names of Oceans and Seas (ONLY FRENCH) = (About 500 entries, each represented by a chain of characters beginning by a letter = representing the considered Ocean, followed by a numeric chain representing the Seas)] = ISO 3166-1 (15/11/2006), 2nd edition [replaces ISO 3166-1 1997] = Codes for the representation of names of countries and their subdivisions = Part 1: Country codes = (244 entries, 193 independant countries and 51 others territories with geopolitical interest, = with each an alpha-2, an alpha-3 and a numeric 3 code element) ISO 639-3 (01/02/2007) = ISO 3166-2 (15/12/2007), 2nd edition [replaces ISO 3166-2 1998] Codes for the representation of names of languages = Codes for the representation of names of countries and their subdivisions Part 3: Alpha-3 code for comprehensive coverage of = Part 2 : Country subdivision code languages (NOT BILINGUAL FACE A FACE ENGLISH/FRENCH) (About 7000 en= tries, representing high level administrative subdivisions of each independant (About 7000 entries, with each an alpha-3 code element) = country inside ISO 3166-1, but Monaco and Vatican, and also for 2 others terrritories, each = represented by a chain of characters of length max 6) ISO 639-5 (15/05/2008) Codes for the representation of names of languages Part 5: Alpha-3 code f= or language families and groups (114 entries, each with an alpha-3 code element) [RFC 4646 bis (08/07/2008) Tags for Identidfying Languages draft (ONLY ENGLISH) Links between all these documents arte as follows: ISO 639 (1988) only normative reference is ISO 3166, and its clause 4.4 is = "Application of the country symbols" RFC 1766 (1995) refers to ISO 639 (1988), and also to ISO 3166 (1988) but n= ot to ISO 3166 (1993) [why ?] ISO 3166-1 (1997) gives ISO 639 (1988) not as a normative reference, but as= a bibliographic reference with others ISO standards using ISO 3166 ISO 639-2 (1998) only normative reference is ISO 3166-1 (1997), and its cla= use 4.4 is "Application of the country code" ISO 3166-2 (1998) gives ISO 3166-1 (1997) and ISO 639 (1988) among its norm= ative references, and uses ISO 639 inside its annex C (informative) to produce an index of ISO 639 language code elerments used f= or the representatiobn of official languages of countries ISO 3166-3 (1999) gives ISO 3166-1 (1997) among its normative references RFC 3066 (2001) refers to ISO 639 (1988), ISO 639-2 (1998), and ISO 3166 (1= 988), but not ISO 3166-1 (1997) that seems curious because RFC 3066 also quasi-refers to the future ISO 639-1 (2000), that wi= ll in fact be ISO 639-1 (2002). Also, ISO 3166-2 (1998) is not referenced inside RFC 31-066, but is in fact directly used by the ex= ample sgn-US-MA given inside point 2.2 "Language tag sources". ISO 639-1 (2002) gives only the three parts of ISO 3166, ISO 3166-1 (1997),= ISO 3166-2 (1998) and ISO 3166-3 (1999) as normative references, and its clause 4.4 "Application of the country code" explicitel= y gives both examples "en US-NY" and "fr FR-75". ISO 15924 (2004) gives ISO 639-2 (1998) among its normative references, but= ISO 639-2 and ISO 3166-1 (1997) are also given in the Bibliography, and in fact definition 3.3 is about "country code", so that I= SO 3166 is effectively used by ISO 15924 RFC 4646 (2006) gives as normative references ISO 15924 (2004), ISO 3166-1 = (1997), ISO 639-1 (2002), ISO 639-2 (1998) and also UNSTAT's M49, but not ISO 3166-2 (1998). ISO 3166-1 (2006) gives ISO 639-1 and ISO 639-2 among its normative referen= ces, and uses them in informative columns 9 and 10 of tables 9 and 10 that give the list of code elements of administrative langu= ages (defined in clause 6.2) of each entry. ISO 3166-2 (2007) gives ISO 3166-1 (2006) among its normative references an= d uses ISO 639-1 (2002) for each entry inside table 8 "List of country subdivision names and their code elements" to give the lis= t of administrative languages of this entry. Also Annex C (informative) "Index of ISO 639-1 names of alpha-2 languages code element u= sed" uses ISO 639-1. RFC 4646 bis (2008) gives as normative references ISO 15924 (2004), ISO 316= 6-1 (2006), ISO 639-1 (2002), ISO 639-2 (1998), ISO 639-3 (2007), ISO 639-5 (2008) and also UNSTAT's M49, but not ISO 3166-2 (2007). = It could also refer to ISO 8601 that is used at the end of point 3.1.1 "File Format" for the representation of the gregorian calend= ar. 4-So, combination of ISO 639-1 or 639-2 code elements with ISO 3166-1 or IS= O 3166-2 code elements has already been documented many times, as well in ISO 3166 that in ISO 639, or even in RFC 3066. So, it on= ly seems natural to introduce ISO 3166-2 code elements inside the "region type" of IANA's Register. 5-Moreover, as ISO 639-3, and ISO 15924 as well, are developping an histori= c view on language name, it would also be natural to introduce an historic view on country names. Clearly ISO 3166-3, that begin= s history in 1974 (in thesame manner that IANA's Register begins history in 2005 !), in not an adequate reference for this, and AFNOR= XP Z 44-002 could be a better one. Bien cordialement. G=E9rard LANG -----Message d'origine----- De : John Cowan [mailto:cowan@ccil.org] Envoy=E9 : lundi 25 ao=FBt 2008 06:= 11 =C0 : Doug Ewell Cc : LTRU Working Group; Lang G=E9rard Objet : Re: [Ltru] [private] Re: Registry updated Doug Ewell scripsit: > Reserving a singleton to introduce a 3166-2-based subtag would be > syntactically feasible, and has been suggested for other situations, The trouble is that 3166-2 is neither stable nor publicly available. -- John Cowan cowan@ccil.org http://ccil.org/~cowan In computer science, we = stand on each other's feet. --Brian K. Reid _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Tue Aug 26 14:23:40 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ltru-archive@megatron.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD57E3A6BEE; Tue, 26 Aug 2008 14:23:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E29B13A68EF for ; Tue, 26 Aug 2008 14:23:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -104.74 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-104.74 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_20=-0.74, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HSMA+vsd2iqe for ; Tue, 26 Aug 2008 14:23:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp-fw-9101.amazon.com (smtp-fw-9101.amazon.com [207.171.184.25]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5FC93A6817 for ; Tue, 26 Aug 2008 14:23:38 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.32,273,1217808000"; d="scan'208";a="97169112" Received: from smtp-in-1104.vdc.amazon.com ([10.140.10.25]) by smtp-border-fw-out-9101.sea19.amazon.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 26 Aug 2008 21:23:27 +0000 Received: from ex-hub-4104.ant.amazon.com (ex-hub-4104.sea5.amazon.com [10.248.163.25]) by smtp-in-1104.vdc.amazon.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id m7QLNQ3C029086 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=FAIL) for ; Tue, 26 Aug 2008 21:23:27 GMT Received: from EX-SEA5-D.ant.amazon.com ([10.248.163.28]) by ex-hub-4104.ant.amazon.com ([10.248.163.25]) with mapi; Tue, 26 Aug 2008 14:23:27 -0700 From: "Phillips, Addison" To: LTRU Working Group Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 14:23:26 -0700 Thread-Topic: inter-locale down... Thread-Index: AckHwfphOjKEECTQTSeDz8QptquQoA== Message-ID: <4D25F22093241741BC1D0EEBC2DBB1DA014B2960D7@EX-SEA5-D.ant.amazon.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: [Ltru] inter-locale down... X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org All, I'm in the process of moving house. As a result, starting this morning at 8 AM Pacific time, the inter-locale.com server (where versions of the draft are stored) is down. In theory, my new internet connection is working in the new house; in practice, I am once again negotiating with the various facets of my provider to get service. Hopefully service will be restored tomorrow. Until service is restored, I cannot submit a new draft, since I have to receive an email from the submission tool. Regards, Addison Addison Phillips Globalization Architect -- Lab126 Internationalization is not a feature. It is an architecture. _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Tue Aug 26 19:07:10 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ltru-archive@megatron.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8142D3A6874; Tue, 26 Aug 2008 19:07:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39D873A6ABB for ; Tue, 26 Aug 2008 19:07:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.52 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.52 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.518, BAYES_50=0.001, STOX_REPLY_TYPE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OfQzM67bT34G for ; Tue, 26 Aug 2008 19:07:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpauth11.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net (smtpauth11.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net [64.202.165.33]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 386633A6A82 for ; Tue, 26 Aug 2008 19:07:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 22639 invoked from network); 27 Aug 2008 02:07:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (67.177.232.210) by smtpauth11.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net (64.202.165.33) with ESMTP; 27 Aug 2008 02:06:59 -0000 Message-ID: <83975B738F8A4B8094B6A38B49678384@DGBP7M81> From: "Doug Ewell" To: "LTRU Working Group" References: Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 20:06:55 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5512 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 Subject: Re: [Ltru] Registry updated X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org UmFuZHkgUHJlc3VobiA8cmFuZHkgdW5kZXJzY29yZSBwcmVzdWhuIGF0IG1pbmRzcHJpbmcgZG90 IGNvbT4gd3JvdGU6Cgo+IEdlcmFyZCAtIFlvdXIgbGFzdCB0d28gcG9zdGluZ3MgYXJlIHF1aXRl IG9mZi10b3BpYyBmb3IgdGhpcyBXRy4KPiBQbGVhc2Ugc3RpY2sgdG8gbWF0dGVycyB0aGF0IGFy ZSB3aXRoaW4gb3VyIGNoYXJ0ZXIgYW5kIHdoaWNoCj4gaGF2ZSBub3QgYWxyZWFkeSBiZWVuIHJl c29sdmVkLgoKSSBlbmNvdXJhZ2VkIEfDqXJhcmQgdG8gbW92ZSB0aGlzIHRocmVhZCBvbnRvIHRo ZSBXRywgc2luY2UgaGUgd2FzIApwcmVzZW50aW5nIHByb3Bvc2FscyBhbmQgc3VnZ2VzdGlvbnMg Zm9yIEJDUCA0NyB0byBhIGhhbmQtcGlja2VkIHByaXZhdGUgCmxpc3QuICBJIGRpZG4ndCBhbnRp Y2lwYXRlIHRoZSBsb25nIGFubm90YXRlZCBoaXN0b3J5IG9mIElTTyBzdGFuZGFyZHMuCgpIb3dl dmVyLCBzb21lIG9mIGhpcyBwb2ludHMgd2VyZSBhdCBsZWFzdCBzb21ld2hhdCBvbi10b3BpYywg aWYgeW91IGxvb2sgCmhhcmQgZW5vdWdoOgoKMS4gIE9uZSBvZiB0aGUgbnVtZXJvdXMgb2JqZWN0 aW9ucyB0byB0aGUgdXNlIG9mIElTTyAzMTY2LTIgY29kZSAKZWxlbWVudHMgYXMgc3ViLXJlZ2lv biBzdWJ0YWdzIGlzIHRoYXQgdGhlIGxpc3QgaXMgbm90IGZyZWVseSBhdmFpbGFibGUuIApJZiBp dCBpcyB0cnVlIHRoYXQgdGhlIGNvZGVzIG1heSBiZWNvbWUgZnJlZWx5IGF2YWlsYWJsZSBpbiB0 aGUgZnV0dXJlLCAKdGhhdCBkb2VzIHJlbW92ZSBvbmUgb2YgdGhlIG9iamVjdGlvbnMsIGFsdGhv dWdoIHRoZSBvdGhlcnMgcmVtYWluLgoKMi4gIFRoZSBkaXNjdXNzaW9uIGFib3V0IEV1cm9wYW50 byBhbmQgIk5lZ2xpc2giIHByb2JhYmx5IGJlbG9uZ3Mgb24gCmlldGYtbGFuZ3VhZ2VzIHJhdGhl ciB0aGFuIGhlcmUsIGJ1dCBJIHdhc24ndCBhYm91dCB0byB0ZWxsIEfDqXJhcmQgdG8gCnRha2Ug aGlzIHRocmVhZCB0byB0d28gZGlmZmVyZW50IGxpc3RzLiAgQnV0IHRoZXJlIGlzIGEgcHJvYmxl bSBhbnl3YXkgCndpdGggaGlzIHBhcmFsbGVsaXNtOiBFdXJvcGFudG8gKGFzIGRlc2NyaWJlZCBi eSBpdHMgY3JlYXRvciwgRGllZ28gCk1hcmFuaSkgaXMgbm90IGF0IGFsbCAiZGVzY3JpYmVkIGFz IGEgcHVyZWx5IGFydGlmaWNpYWwgbGFuZ3VhZ2Ugb25seSAKc3Bva2VuIGJ5IGJ1cmVhdWNyYXRz IGxvY2F0ZWQgaW4gQnJ1c3NlbHMuIiAgQm90aCBoYWx2ZXMgb2YgdGhpcyAKc3RhdGVtZW50IGFy ZSBpbmNvcnJlY3Q7IGl0IGlzIG5vdCBhbiBhcnRpZmljaWFsIGxhbmd1YWdlIChub3IgYSAKbGFu Z3VhZ2UgYXQgYWxsLCBzYXlzIE1hcmFuaSwgYnV0IGEgImxpbmd1aXN0aWMgY29kZSBvZiBjb25k dWN0IiksIGFuZCAKaXQgaGFzIG5vdGhpbmcgdG8gZG8gd2l0aCBOQVRPIG9yIFVOIGJ1cmVhdWNy YXRzIHBlciBzZSAodGhlIHRhcmdldCAKYXVkaWVuY2UgaXMgYW55b25lIHdobyBuZWVkcyB0byBj b21tdW5pY2F0ZSBhY3Jvc3MgbGluZ3Vpc3RpYyAKYm91bmRhcmllcykuIFsxXQoKMy4gIFRoZSBs ZW5ndGh5IGhpc3RvcmljYWwgc2VjdGlvbiB3YXMgcHJvYmFibHkgbWVhbnQgdG8gZXN0YWJsaXNo IGEgCnJlbGF0aW9uc2hpcCBiZXR3ZWVuIEFGTk9SIFhQIFogNDQtMDIwLCAiQ29kZSBmb3IgdGhl IHJlcHJlc2VudGF0aW9uIG9mIApuYW1lcyBvZiBPY2VhbnMgYW5kIFNlYXMsIiBhbmQgdGhlIG90 aGVyIElTTyBzdGFuZGFyZHMgd2UgdXNlIGluIEJDUCA0Ny4gCkkgc3VwcG9zZSB0aGUgdWx0aW1h dGUgcHVycG9zZSB3YXMgdG8gc2hvdyB0aGF0IHdlIHNob3VsZCBhZGQgcmVnaW9uIApzdWJ0YWdz IGZvciBub24tbGFuZCBhcmVhcyBvZiB0aGUgZWFydGguCgotLQpEb3VnIEV3ZWxsICAqICBUaG9y bnRvbiwgQ29sb3JhZG8sIFVTQSAgKiAgUkZDIDQ2NDUgICogIFVUTiAjMTQKaHR0cDovL3d3dy5l d2VsbGljLm9yZwpodHRwOi8vd3d3MS5pZXRmLm9yZy9odG1sLmNoYXJ0ZXJzL2x0cnUtY2hhcnRl ci5odG1sCmh0dHA6Ly93d3cuYWx2ZXN0cmFuZC5uby9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL2lldGYtbGFu Z3VhZ2VzICDLhgoKWzFdIGh0dHA6Ly93d3cuZXVyb3BhbnRvLmJlL2dyYW0uZW4uaHRtbAoKX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18KTHRydSBtYWlsaW5n IGxpc3QKTHRydUBpZXRmLm9yZwpodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZv L2x0cnUK From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Tue Aug 26 19:16:09 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ltru-archive@megatron.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B96C3A695C; 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Received: from [64.105.35.136] (helo=oemcomputer) by elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1KYAZq-0000sh-D3 for ltru@ietf.org; Tue, 26 Aug 2008 22:16:06 -0400 Message-ID: <001801c907eb$11ac8e00$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> From: "Randy Presuhn" To: "LTRU Working Group" References: <83975B738F8A4B8094B6A38B49678384@DGBP7M81> Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 19:17:34 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-ELNK-Trace: 4488c18417c9426da92b9037bc8bcf44d4c20f6b8d69d888a63b7957ab9b23b339d6d28c61eac2562ce22c51e3d77271350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 64.105.35.136 Subject: Re: [Ltru] Registry updated X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; 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Tue, 26 Aug 2008 19:22:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8E6B28C26F for ; Tue, 26 Aug 2008 19:22:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.932 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.932 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.932, BAYES_50=0.001, GB_I_LETTER=-2, SARE_SUB_OBFU_OTHER=0.135] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OyIeVh+0Chuf for ; Tue, 26 Aug 2008 19:22:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.66]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F9EF28C26E for ; Tue, 26 Aug 2008 19:22:52 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=mindspring.com; b=Ho0HGNkF9Ysg0wFhEXzwCR+AbkJr9beNu4oTDq3JnL/G0loU9eSFYktzafxMa0DF; h=Received:Message-ID:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [64.105.35.136] (helo=oemcomputer) by elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1KYAgM-0002Tt-2m for ltru@ietf.org; Tue, 26 Aug 2008 22:22:50 -0400 Message-ID: <004b01c907ec$026639e0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> From: "Randy Presuhn" To: "LTRU Working Group" References: <257D6D3DEBA4409687C22CAFE12455F4@DGBP7M81> Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 19:24:18 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-ELNK-Trace: 4488c18417c9426da92b9037bc8bcf44d4c20f6b8d69d888a63b7957ab9b23b3e1df3f1071cc69b39a4822ef43c4442c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 64.105.35.136 Subject: Re: [Ltru] Expanding the xx..yy ranges (was: Re: Two grandfathered tagsfor 'Hakka') X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Hi - As co-chair... > From: "Doug Ewell" > To: "LTRU Working Group" > Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 9:54 PM > Subject: [Ltru] Expanding the xx..yy ranges (was: Re: Two grandfathered tagsfor 'Hakka') ... > OK, now I have TWO change items on which I request that the co-chairs > determine rough consensus: > > 1. whether to modify the Description fields of ISO 639-3 language names > that contain ASCII approximations of click letters, replacing them with > real Unicode click letters There does not appear to be a rough consensus in support of making such a change. > 2. whether to expand the four subtags that contain "xx..yy" ranges into > individual records > > Regarding #2, we are talking about expanding 4 records into 610, for a > net increase of 606 records. The current 4645bis Registry includes 8561 > subtags, so this represents a 7% increase. There does not appear to be a rough consensus in support of making such a change. > I will take no action on either of these items unless and until one of > the co-chairs declares rough consensus, one way or the other. These are > technical, not editorial, and there is already disagreement on #2. ... If there are serious objections to not making these two proposed changes, please speak up NOW. Randy ltru co-chair _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From ltru-bounces@ietf.org Tue Aug 26 23:27:20 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ltru-archive@megatron.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-ltru-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B7E63A6918; Tue, 26 Aug 2008 23:27:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56CE13A6918 for ; Tue, 26 Aug 2008 23:27:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 2.802 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.802 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.947, BAYES_50=0.001, FB_CIALIS_LEO3=3.899, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, J_CHICKENPOX_14=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_21=0.6, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dCoVSQoestVk for ; Tue, 26 Aug 2008 23:27:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mercure.insee.fr (mercure.insee.fr [81.255.68.34]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6964F3A6888 for ; Tue, 26 Aug 2008 23:27:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from evariste.insee.fr (unknown [194.254.38.143]) by mercure.insee.fr (Insee Mail Server) with ESMTP id AC30F133731 for ; Wed, 27 Aug 2008 08:27:16 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by evariste.insee.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8703679401F for ; Wed, 27 Aug 2008 08:27:16 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at insee.fr Received: from evariste.insee.fr ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (evariste.insee.fr [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BDWwSvLKLG3U for ; Wed, 27 Aug 2008 08:27:16 +0200 (CEST) Received: from s90x2smtp.ad.insee.intra (unknown [194.254.38.144]) by evariste.insee.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5570279401E for ; Wed, 27 Aug 2008 08:27:16 +0200 (CEST) Received: from S90X2HUB1.ad.insee.intra ([10.90.200.50]) by s90x2smtp.ad.insee.intra with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Wed, 27 Aug 2008 08:27:16 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 08:27:16 +0200 Message-ID: <68723E6B2E0EDC4999504D17DDE8F94904AD070F@S90X2HUB1.ad.insee.intra> In-Reply-To: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Ltru Digest, Vol 42, Issue 6 Thread-Index: AckHrf5S9RWxEpOcQ0G4kyrw6AFRZgAX4Kuw References: From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Lang_G=E9rard?= To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Aug 2008 06:27:16.0508 (UTC) FILETIME=[F33ABDC0:01C9080D] Cc: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Lang_G=E9rard?= Subject: Re: [Ltru] Ltru Digest, Vol 42, Issue 6 X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: ltru-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: ltru-bounces@ietf.org I posted these messages on the list because Harald Alvestrand and Doug Ewel= l asked me to do so. Anyway they contain general informations that not completely outside the sc= ope of this list and could have interest for the members ! Cordialement. G=E9rard LANG -----Message d'origine----- De : ltru-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ltru-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de ltr= u-request@ietf.org Envoy=E9 : mardi 26 ao=FBt 2008 21:00 =C0 : ltru@ietf.org Objet : Ltru Digest, Vol 42, Issue 6 Send Ltru mailing list submissions to ltru@ietf.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to ltru-request@ietf.org You can reach the person managing the list at ltru-owner@ietf.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "R= e: Contents of Ltru digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Registry updated (Randy Presuhn) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 10:53:05 -0700 From: "Randy Presuhn" Subject: Re: [Ltru] Registry updated To: "LTRU Working Group" Message-ID: <007401c907a4$97fad940$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Hi - Gerard - Your last two postings are quite off-topic for this WG. Please stick to matters that are within our charter and which have not alre= ady been resolved. Randy ltru co-chair ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lang G?rard" To: "Lang G?rard" ; "John Cowan" ; "D= oug Ewell" ; ; ; Cc: "LTRU Working Group" ; "Lang G?rard" Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 6:49 AM Subject: Re: [Ltru] [private] Re: Registry updated 4 bis: The following informations should be inserted at their places at the= end of point 4 of my previous message: AFNOR XP Z 44-002 (1997) gives among its normative references NF EN 23166 = (1994), that is the european endorsement by CEN and AFNOR of ISO 3166 (1993), ISO/DIS 3166-1 (1996), ISO/DIS 3166-2 (1997), and ISO/D= IS 3166-3 (1997) AFNOR XP Z 44-020 (2006) gives as normative references NF EN 3166-1 (1997)= , that is the european endorsement by CEN and AFNOR of ISO 3166-1 (1997), and NF EN 639-1 (2002) that is the european endorsement by CEN and AFNOR of IS= O 639-1 (2002), that is used inside point 3.2 "Glossary of generic terms". Bibliography of AFNOR's XP Z 44-020 also refers t= o the document Special Publication n? 23 " Limits of Oceans and Seas", third edition (1953) of IHO (International Hydrographic O= rganization), as well as Special Publication 23's document fourth edition final draft (2001). ISO 639-3 (2007) gives as only normative references ISO 3166-1 and ISO 159= 24, but point 4.4 is about "Relationship between ISO 639-2 and ISO 639-3" and also point 4.7 is about "Scripts and regions" ISO 639-5 (2208) gives as only normative reference ISO 639-2 (1998), and po= int 4.2 is about "Language identifiers that are also included in ISO 639-2" and also Annex A (informative) is about "Groups and= remainder groups in ISO 639-2" Bien cordialement G?rard LANG -----Message d'origine----- De : Lang G?rard Envoy? : mardi 26 ao?t 2008 12:06 ? : 'John Cowan'; Doug Ewell; 'iso639-2@loc.gov'; ISO639-3@sil.org; Joan_Sp= anne@sil.org Cc : LTRU Working Group; Lang G?rard Objet : RE: [Ltru] [private] Re: Registry updated Let me give some more comments about my previous exchanges with Doug Ewell,= and some remarks about them. 1- I already indicated in a previous exchange with Doug Ewell that ISO cent= ral Secretary is seriously considering a decision to make all ISO 3166-1 and ISO 3166-2 code lists freely available. 2-Concerning my request for the creation of "Neglish" (nel) inside ISO 639-= 3, let me remark that even is jokingly presented by parralelism with "Europanto" (eur), the two cases are completely different.= When Europanto, if existing, is described as a purely artificial language only spoken by bureaucrats located in Brussels, Neglish= is a purely genuine spoken language, defined for reference as born among NATO's bureucrats, build as an enrichment of Englis= h language with many words coming from different others languages (french, german, spanish, ..) and not plainly respecting english = grammar, that is massively spoken in our today's world, specially for international relations of all kinds, certainly by more peop= le than the people speaking only pure english language, that all have a good interintelligibity (and this would not be the case wit= h English language only). 3-The common normative history of ISO 639 and ISO 3166 goes back to Novembe= r 1967, when ISO (after work on this question beginning in 1951 and submitted to inquiry in 1964) published recommendation R 639 (1= st edition) "Symbols for languages, countries and authorities", includind 4 parts: 1 Language symbols; 2 Country symbols; 3 S= ymbols of Authorities; 4 Combination of symbols. Authorities were there understood as ISO national body members. Annex a gave a classified list of languages and their symbols, arranged by = families, following the UDC. Annex B gave for each of a list of 38 language names an alpha-2 language = symbol (and also another alpha-1 language symbol for 10 of them), as well as a numeric-3 index given by the Universal Decimal Class= ification (UDC). Annex D gave a classified list of country and standard symbols, with for ea= ch of the 50 coutries in the list a numerc UDC iondex, An alpha-1 or alpha-2 or alpha-3 country symbol and a standards symbol (like U= SAS fior USA, BS for GB or NF for France). After that, the story goes on as follows: ISO R 639 (November 1967), 1st edition Symbols for Languages, Countries and Authorities (NOT FACE A FACE BILINGU= AL ENGLISH/FRENCH) = ISO 3166 (15/12/1974), 1st edition (NOT FACE A FACE BILINGUAL ENGLISH/FRENCH) = Codes for the representation of names of countries = (224 entries, with each an alpha-2 code element and an alpha-3 code element) = ISO 3166 (15/05/1981), 2nd edition [replaces ISO 3166: 1974] = Codes for the representation of names of countries = (220 entries, with each an alpha-2, an alpha-3 code element AND a numeric-3 code element) ISO 639 (01/04/1988), 1st edition [replaces ISO R 639] = ISO 3166 (15/08/1988), 3rd edition [replaces ISO 3166 1981] Code for the representation of names of languages = Codes for the representation of names of countries (136 entries, with each an alpha-2 code element, but "jw") = (221 entries, with each an alpha-2, an alpha-3 and a numeric-3 code element) = ISO 3166 (15/09/1993), 4th edition [replaces ISO 3166 1988] = Codes for the representartion of names of countries = (229 entries, with each an alpha-2 an alpha-3 and a numeric-3 code element) [ RFC 1766 (March 1995), (ONLY ENGLISH) Tags for the Identification of L= anguages ] = [ AFNOR XP Z 44-002 (August 1997) = Code for the representation of names of historic countries (ONLY FRENCH) = (About 1330 entries, with each an alpha-5 code element, giving the history of country names = from 1815 [Congress of Vienna) to 1974, publication of the first edition of ISO 3166) ] = ISO 3166-1 (01/10/1997),1st edition [ISO 3166 5th edition, replaces ISO 3166 1993] = Codes for the representation of names of countries and their subdivisions = Part 1: Country codes = (238 entries, with each an alpha-2, an alpha-3 and a numeric-3 code element) ISO 639-2 (22/10/1998), 1st edition = ISO 3166-2 (15/10/1998), 1st edition Codes for the representation of names of languages = Codes for the representation of names of countries and their subdivisions Part 2: Alpha-3 code = Part 2: Country subdivision code (430 entries, with each an alpha-3 "T" code elements, = (About 6000 entries, each represented with a chain of characters of length max 6, beginning and in 23 cases anorther alpha-3 "B" code element) = with the alpha-2 code element of the considered country, followed by an hyphen) = ISO 3166-3 (01/04/1999), 1st edition = Codes for the representation of names of countries and their subdivisions = Part 3: Code for formerly used names of countries = (26 entries, each with an alpha-4 code element) [ RFC 3066 (January 2001) [obsoletes RFC 1766] Tags for the Identificati= on of Languages (ONLY ENGLISH) ] ISO 639-1 (15/07/2002), 1st edition [replaces ISO 639] Codes for the rep= resentation of names of languages Part 1: Alpha-2 codes (182 entries, with each an alpha-2 code element) ISO 15924 (04/02/2004), 1st edition Code for the representation of names of scripts (103 entries, each with an alpha-4 and a numeric-3 code element) [ RFC 4646 (September 2006) [obsoletes RFC 3066] = [ AFNOR XP Z 44-020 (25/09/2006) Tags for Identifying Languages (ONLY ENGLISH)] = Code for the representation of names of Oceans and Seas (ONLY FRENCH) = (About 500 entries, each represented by a chain of characters beginning by a letter = representing the considered Ocean, followed by a numeric chain representing the Seas)] = ISO 3166-1 (15/11/2006), 2nd edition [replaces ISO 3166-1 1997] = Codes for the representation of names of countries and their subdivisions = Part 1: Country codes = (244 entries, 193 independant countries and 51 others territories with geopolitical interest, = with each an alpha-2, an alpha-3 and a numeric 3 code element) ISO 639-3 (01/02/2007) = ISO 3166-2 (15/12/2007), 2nd edition [replaces ISO 3166-2 1998] Codes for the representation of names of languages = Codes for the representation of names of countries and their subdivisions Part 3: Alpha-3 code for comprehensive coverage of = Part 2 : Country subdivision code languages (NOT BILINGUAL FACE A FACE ENGLISH/FRENCH) (About 7000 en= tries, representing high level administrative subdivisions of each independant (About 7000 entries, with each an alpha-3 code element) = country inside ISO 3166-1, but Monaco and Vatican, and also for 2 others terrritories, each = represented by a chain of characters of length max 6) ISO 639-5 (15/05/2008) Codes for the representation of names of languages Part 5: Alpha-3 code f= or language families and groups (114 entries, each with an alpha-3 code element) [RFC 4646 bis (08/07/2008) Tags for Identidfying Languages draft (ONLY ENGLISH) Links between all these documents arte as follows: ISO 639 (1988) only normative reference is ISO 3166, and its clause 4.4 is = "Application of the country symbols" RFC 1766 (1995) refers to ISO 639 (1988), and also to ISO 3166 (1988) but n= ot to ISO 3166 (1993) [why ?] ISO 3166-1 (1997) gives ISO 639 (1988) not as a normative reference, but as= a bibliographic reference with others ISO standards using ISO 3166 ISO 639-2 (1998) only normative reference is ISO 3166-1 (1997), and its cla= use 4.4 is "Application of the country code" ISO 3166-2 (1998) gives ISO 3166-1 (1997) and ISO 639 (1988) among its norm= ative references, and uses ISO 639 inside its annex C (informative) to produce an index of ISO 639 language code elerments used f= or the representatiobn of official languages of countries ISO 3166-3 (1999) gives ISO 3166-1 (1997) among its normative references RFC 3066 (2001) refers to ISO 639 (1988), ISO 639-2 (1998), and ISO 3166 (1= 988), but not ISO 3166-1 (1997) that seems curious because RFC 3066 also quasi-refers to the future ISO 639-1 (2000), that wi= ll in fact be ISO 639-1 (2002). Also, ISO 3166-2 (1998) is not referenced inside RFC 31-066, but is in fact directly used by the ex= ample sgn-US-MA given inside point 2.2 "Language tag sources". ISO 639-1 (2002) gives only the three parts of ISO 3166, ISO 3166-1 (1997),= ISO 3166-2 (1998) and ISO 3166-3 (1999) as normative references, and its clause 4.4 "Application of the country code" explicitel= y gives both examples "en US-NY" and "fr FR-75". ISO 15924 (2004) gives ISO 639-2 (1998) among its normative references, but= ISO 639-2 and ISO 3166-1 (1997) are also given in the Bibliography, and in fact definition 3.3 is about "country code", so that I= SO 3166 is effectively used by ISO 15924 RFC 4646 (2006) gives as normative references ISO 15924 (2004), ISO 3166-1 = (1997), ISO 639-1 (2002), ISO 639-2 (1998) and also UNSTAT's M49, but not ISO 3166-2 (1998). ISO 3166-1 (2006) gives ISO 639-1 and ISO 639-2 among its normative referen= ces, and uses them in informative columns 9 and 10 of tables 9 and 10 that give the list of code elements of administrative langu= ages (defined in clause 6.2) of each entry. ISO 3166-2 (2007) gives ISO 3166-1 (2006) among its normative references an= d uses ISO 639-1 (2002) for each entry inside table 8 "List of country subdivision names and their code elements" to give the lis= t of administrative languages of this entry. Also Annex C (informative) "Index of ISO 639-1 names of alpha-2 languages code element u= sed" uses ISO 639-1. RFC 4646 bis (2008) gives as normative references ISO 15924 (2004), ISO 316= 6-1 (2006), ISO 639-1 (2002), ISO 639-2 (1998), ISO 639-3 (2007), ISO 639-5 (2008) and also UNSTAT's M49, but not ISO 3166-2 (2007). = It could also refer to ISO 8601 that is used at the end of point 3.1.1 "File Format" for the representation of the gregorian calend= ar. 4-So, combination of ISO 639-1 or 639-2 code elements with ISO 3166-1 or IS= O 3166-2 code elements has already been documented many times, as well in ISO 3166 that in ISO 639, or even in RFC 3066. So, it on= ly seems natural to introduce ISO 3166-2 code elements inside the "region type" of IANA's Register. 5-Moreover, as ISO 639-3, and ISO 15924 as well, are developping an histori= c view on language name, it would also be natural to introduce an historic view on country names. Clearly ISO 3166-3, that begin= s history in 1974 (in thesame manner that IANA's Register begins history in 2005 !), in not an adequate reference for this, and AFNOR= XP Z 44-002 could be a better one. Bien cordialement. G?rard LANG -----Message d'origine----- De : John Cowan [mailto:cowan@ccil.org] Envoy? : lundi 25 ao?t 2008 06:11 ?= : Doug Ewell Cc : LTRU Working Group; Lang G?rard Objet : Re: [Ltru] [private] Re: Registry updated Doug Ewell scripsit: > Reserving a singleton to introduce a 3166-2-based subtag would be > syntactically feasible, and has been suggested for other situations, The trouble is that 3166-2 is neither stable nor publicly available. -- John Cowan cowan@ccil.org http://ccil.org/~cowan In computer science, we = stand on each other's feet. --Brian K. Reid _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru End of Ltru Digest, Vol 42, Issue 6 *********************************** _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru