From randy_presuhn@mindspring.com Mon Oct 19 11:06:06 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0916B3A6941 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 2009 11:06:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.001 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fntj87BC3d8Z for ; Mon, 19 Oct 2009 11:06:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.66]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 445433A68D0 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 2009 11:06:02 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=mindspring.com; b=louy4+bYuvTgyIMTJVpLLZho7Ywmyyoh73S7T0xgTuaymwQ28UKKv8Ut7gdW535p; h=Received:Message-ID:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MIMEOLE:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [99.41.55.89] (helo=oemcomputer) by elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1MzwcS-0007kZ-Or for ltru@ietf.org; Mon, 19 Oct 2009 14:06:09 -0400 Message-ID: <001901ca50e7$108b1be0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> From: "Randy Presuhn" To: "LTRU Working Group" Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 11:07:46 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-ELNK-Trace: 4488c18417c9426da92b9037bc8bcf44d4c20f6b8d69d8881afdcb5313ff34f9fb29bc9c2618f0ec9aa90178589a51d0350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 99.41.55.89 Subject: [Ltru] Fw: [rt.amsl.com #20489] ltru WG milestone completion X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 18:06:06 -0000 Hi - An update. Randy ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Cindy Morgan via RT" > To: > Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 11:05 AM > Subject: [rt.amsl.com #20489] ltru WG milestone completion > > Hi Randy, > > These milestones have been marked as completed on the LTRU WG charter > page, as requested. > > Best regards, > Cindy > > > On Fri Oct 16 22:01:25 2009, randy_presuhn@mindspring.com wrote: > > Hi - > > > > Two milestones from the ltru WG charter have been completed: > > > > Mar 2008 Submit registry procedure update draft for IETF Last Call > > Mar 2008 Submit registry data update draft for IETF Last Call > > > > In each case, the IESG last call announcement went out on April 9th, 2009. > > > > Randy Presuhn > > ltru co-chair > > > > > From duerst@it.aoyama.ac.jp Fri Oct 30 02:29:14 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB52C3A69E6 for ; Fri, 30 Oct 2009 02:29:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.649 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.649 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.020, BAYES_20=-0.74, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_EQ_JP=1.244, HOST_EQ_JP=1.265, J_CHICKENPOX_34=0.6, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ySneX5EZdG9O for ; Fri, 30 Oct 2009 02:29:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from scmailgw01.scop.aoyama.ac.jp (scmailgw01.scop.aoyama.ac.jp [133.2.251.41]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8ED8A3A67A7 for ; Fri, 30 Oct 2009 02:29:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from scmse01.scbb.aoyama.ac.jp (scmse01.scbb.aoyama.ac.jp [133.2.253.158]) by scmailgw01.scop.aoyama.ac.jp (secret/secret) with SMTP id n9U9TTgj032765 for ; Fri, 30 Oct 2009 18:29:29 +0900 Received: from (unknown [133.2.206.133]) by scmse01.scbb.aoyama.ac.jp with smtp id 0b2d_b975700c_c536_11de_b99a_001d096c566a; Fri, 30 Oct 2009 18:29:29 +0900 Received: from [IPv6:::1] ([133.2.210.1]:59623) by itmail.it.aoyama.ac.jp with [XMail 1.22 ESMTP Server] id for from ; Fri, 30 Oct 2009 18:25:59 +0900 Message-ID: <4AEAB1E3.50305@it.aoyama.ac.jp> Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 18:29:07 +0900 From: =?UTF-8?B?Ik1hcnRpbiBKLiBEw7xyc3Qi?= Organization: Aoyama Gakuin University User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.0; en-US; rv:1.9.1b3pre) Gecko/20090108 Eudora/3.0b1pre MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Adam Twardoch (List)" References: <19173.46660.701817.726727@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <49CB1917-6A69-448A-B619-644F8730940C@jfkew.plus.com> <4AEA91E9.4020708@twardoch.com> In-Reply-To: <4AEA91E9.4020708@twardoch.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: LTRU Working Group , www-font , =?UTF-8?B?SMOla29uIFdpdW0gTGll?= , www-style , Jonathan Kew , Stephen Zilles Subject: Re: [Ltru] font features in CSS X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 09:29:14 -0000 Hello Adam, [cc to IETF LTRU WG] On 2009/10/30 16:12, Adam Twardoch (List) wrote: > III. LANGUAGE CLASSIFICATION > > All OpenType Layout features are assigned in a context of specific > script and language system. While the assignment of script is easy (the > engine can determine from the Unicode string which script a certain > character belongs to, and from there it can pick the appropriate > OpenType script branch to apply the features for), the language system > is trickier. > > As you can see from > http://www.microsoft.com/typography/otspec/languagetags.htm > OpenType uses a list of language systems that do not have a 1:1 > correspondence with any of the ISO 639 standards. In OpenType 1.6 (at > the link above), an informational mapping of OpenType language system > tags and "best matches" in the ISO 639 standards has been provided. It > is quite obvious that a web browser that applies OpenType Layout > features should observe the HTML "lang" attribute and, if present, apply > the appropriate features from the particular language system branch in a > font (and only if absent, apply the features from the Default language > system within a script branch). But it might be worth considering to add > a low-level CSS access mechanism to allow users to choose a specific > OpenType language system, because some ISO 639 codes can map to several > OpenType language systems, e.g. > > (OT) (ISO) > Chinese Hong Kong ZHH zho > Chinese Phonetic ZHP zho > Chinese Simplified ZHS zho > Chinese Traditional ZHT zho HTML lang and XML xml:lang use BCP 47 (http://tools.ietf.org/html/bcp47, formerly RFC 1766/3066/4646) tags, not ISO 639 directly. BCP 47 uses two-letter codes (i.e. 'zh') and not three-letter codes (i.e. 'zho') when two-letter codes are available. Also, BCP 47 has facilities for indicating Region (country,...) with two-letter codes and for indicating script with four-letter codes. So the above list should be changed to: (OT) (BCP 47) Chinese Hong Kong ZHH zh-HK Chinese Phonetic ZHP ** Chinese Simplified ZHS zh-Hans Chinese Traditional ZHT zh-Hant ** not sure what's meant by Chinese Phonetic, may be zh-Latn (Latin transcription) or zh-Bopo (Bopomofo)? Regards, Martin. -- #-# Martin J. Dürst, Professor, Aoyama Gakuin University #-# http://www.sw.it.aoyama.ac.jp mailto:duerst@it.aoyama.ac.jp From mark.edward.davis@gmail.com Fri Oct 30 07:49:32 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6478F3A68C1 for ; Fri, 30 Oct 2009 07:49:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.076 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.076 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_34=0.6, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id j+il-+P4kJAE for ; Fri, 30 Oct 2009 07:49:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yw0-f183.google.com (mail-yw0-f183.google.com [209.85.211.183]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58AE03A6883 for ; Fri, 30 Oct 2009 07:49:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by ywh13 with SMTP id 13so3127849ywh.29 for ; Fri, 30 Oct 2009 07:49:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:in-reply-to :references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc :content-type; bh=C9pAiQc5F8XQtnUIhRS5Ab7fUgMR5Uiam6nzWYWLUso=; b=AdBP4o36U2aQarIrdV8EPE/Okremz7VlKYs6Xrz8gIL3wHAt4ZKGQkgSYEenYOg2nt v86bLX81uRdR2kDr+4BvWJUIH9tJbMZHl9U9bnEreiKBzyqW2KI1qbR91gDm0ddsKLFu NIwkaE0Qv6lTY2pqBabNBY4sA7bwAEaDGfuh8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; b=vCQmKCq3R4TB38IFRvsaE9Sw2hXUwxaGhbU2nnfJgJ6/x0zNlvX8LBkYYJqVgj0/yY gSkbgiCxxTaVLU1IXCguptX6fIqVKEYc4lIjUcoaAif7zhrSbpeaZ1kCQYDSUkaDlMSk 06Z1a3+/lJECZ5cYO9WFpbBxxxqVw4H+dQF8U= MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: mark.edward.davis@gmail.com Received: by 10.101.129.6 with SMTP id g6mr1519617ann.161.1256914183477; Fri, 30 Oct 2009 07:49:43 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4AEAB1E3.50305@it.aoyama.ac.jp> References: <19173.46660.701817.726727@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <49CB1917-6A69-448A-B619-644F8730940C@jfkew.plus.com> <4AEA91E9.4020708@twardoch.com> <4AEAB1E3.50305@it.aoyama.ac.jp> Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 07:49:43 -0700 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 8bc9ae6b1e307552 Message-ID: <30b660a20910300749k34504520l142c256723c74e3f@mail.gmail.com> From: =?UTF-8?B?TWFyayBEYXZpcyDimJU=?= To: =?UTF-8?Q?Martin_J=2E_D=C3=BCrst?= Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001636c5bfb96b59e604772823cd Cc: Jonathan Kew , www-font , =?UTF-8?Q?H=C3=A5kon_Wium_Lie?= , www-style , Stephen Zilles , LTRU Working Group , "Adam Twardoch \(List\)" Subject: Re: [Ltru] font features in CSS X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 14:49:32 -0000 --001636c5bfb96b59e604772823cd Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Agreed. I'm guessing he meant zh-Latn-pinyin (http://www.iana.org/assignments/language-subtag-registry) Mark On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 02:29, "Martin J. D=C3=BCrst" wrote: > Hello Adam, > > [cc to IETF LTRU WG] > > On 2009/10/30 16:12, Adam Twardoch (List) wrote: > > III. LANGUAGE CLASSIFICATION >> >> All OpenType Layout features are assigned in a context of specific >> script and language system. While the assignment of script is easy (the >> engine can determine from the Unicode string which script a certain >> character belongs to, and from there it can pick the appropriate >> OpenType script branch to apply the features for), the language system >> is trickier. >> >> As you can see from >> http://www.microsoft.com/typography/otspec/languagetags.htm >> OpenType uses a list of language systems that do not have a 1:1 >> correspondence with any of the ISO 639 standards. In OpenType 1.6 (at >> the link above), an informational mapping of OpenType language system >> tags and "best matches" in the ISO 639 standards has been provided. It >> is quite obvious that a web browser that applies OpenType Layout >> features should observe the HTML "lang" attribute and, if present, apply >> the appropriate features from the particular language system branch in a >> font (and only if absent, apply the features from the Default language >> system within a script branch). But it might be worth considering to add >> a low-level CSS access mechanism to allow users to choose a specific >> OpenType language system, because some ISO 639 codes can map to several >> OpenType language systems, e.g. >> >> (OT) (ISO) >> Chinese Hong Kong ZHH zho >> Chinese Phonetic ZHP zho >> Chinese Simplified ZHS zho >> Chinese Traditional ZHT zho >> > > HTML lang and XML xml:lang use BCP 47 (http://tools.ietf.org/html/bcp47, > formerly RFC 1766/3066/4646) tags, not ISO 639 directly. BCP 47 uses > two-letter codes (i.e. 'zh') and not three-letter codes (i.e. 'zho') when > two-letter codes are available. Also, BCP 47 has facilities for indicatin= g > Region (country,...) with two-letter codes and for indicating script with > four-letter codes. So the above list should be changed to: > > (OT) (BCP 47) > Chinese Hong Kong ZHH zh-HK > Chinese Phonetic ZHP ** > Chinese Simplified ZHS zh-Hans > Chinese Traditional ZHT zh-Hant > > ** not sure what's meant by Chinese Phonetic, may be zh-Latn (Latin > transcription) or zh-Bopo (Bopomofo)? > > Regards, Martin. > > -- > #-# Martin J. D=C3=BCrst, Professor, Aoyama Gakuin University > #-# http://www.sw.it.aoyama.ac.jp mailto:duerst@it.aoyama.ac.jp > _______________________________________________ > Ltru mailing list > Ltru@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru > --001636c5bfb96b59e604772823cd Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Agreed.

I'm guessing he meant zh-Latn-pinyin

(http://www.iana.o= rg/assignments/language-subtag-registry)

Mark


On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 02:29, "Mar= tin J. D=C3=BCrst" <duerst@it.aoyama.ac.jp> wrote:
Hello Adam,

[cc to IETF LTRU WG]

On 2009/10/30 16:12, Adam Twardoch (List) wrote:

III. LANGUAGE CLASSIFICATION

All OpenType Layout features are assigned in a context of specific
script and language system. While the assignment of script is easy (the
engine can determine from the Unicode string which script a certain
character belongs to, and from there it can pick the appropriate
OpenType script branch to apply the features for), the language system
is trickier.

As you can see from
http://www.microsoft.com/typography/otspec/languagetags.htm<= /a>
OpenType uses a list of language systems that do not have a 1:1
correspondence with any of the ISO 639 standards. In OpenType 1.6 (at
the link above), an informational mapping of OpenType language system
tags and "best matches" in the ISO 639 standards has been provide= d. It
is quite obvious that a web browser that applies OpenType Layout
features should observe the HTML "lang" attribute and, if present= , apply
the appropriate features from the particular language system branch in a font (and only if absent, apply the features from the Default language
system within a script branch). But it might be worth considering to add a low-level CSS access mechanism to allow users to choose a specific
OpenType language system, because some ISO 639 codes can map to several
OpenType language systems, e.g.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 (OT) =C2=A0 =C2=A0(ISO)
Chinese Hong Kong =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 ZHH =C2=A0 =C2=A0 zho
Chinese Phonetic =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0ZHP =C2=A0 =C2=A0 zho
Chinese Simplified =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0ZHS =C2=A0 =C2=A0 zho
Chinese Traditional =C2=A0 =C2=A0 ZHT =C2=A0 =C2=A0 zho

HTML lang and XML xml:lang use BCP 47 (http://tools.ietf.org/html/bcp47, formerly R= FC 1766/3066/4646) tags, not ISO 639 directly. BCP 47 uses two-letter codes= (i.e. 'zh') and not three-letter codes (i.e. 'zho') when t= wo-letter codes are available. Also, BCP 47 has facilities for indicating R= egion (country,...) with two-letter codes and for indicating script with fo= ur-letter codes. So the above list should be changed to:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0(OT) =C2=A0 =C2=A0(BCP 47)
Chinese Hong Kong =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 ZHH =C2=A0 =C2=A0 zh-HK
Chinese Phonetic =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0ZHP =C2=A0 =C2=A0 **
Chinese Simplified =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0ZHS =C2=A0 =C2=A0 zh-Hans
Chinese Traditional =C2=A0 =C2=A0 ZHT =C2=A0 =C2=A0 zh-Hant

** not sure what's meant by Chinese Phonetic, may be zh-Latn (Latin tra= nscription) or zh-Bopo (Bopomofo)?

Regards, =C2=A0 Martin.

--
#-# Martin J. D=C3=BCrst, Professor, Aoyama Gakuin University
#-# http://www.= sw.it.aoyama.ac.jp =C2=A0 mailto:duerst@it.aoyama.ac.jp
_______________________________________________
Ltru mailing list
Ltru@ietf.org
ht= tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru

--001636c5bfb96b59e604772823cd-- From mark.edward.davis@gmail.com Fri Oct 30 07:50:47 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D57DF3A67AB for ; Fri, 30 Oct 2009 07:50:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.376 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.376 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.700, BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sPOe1GDUUJOq for ; Fri, 30 Oct 2009 07:50:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yw0-f183.google.com (mail-yw0-f183.google.com [209.85.211.183]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 854B43A687C for ; Fri, 30 Oct 2009 07:50:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by ywh13 with SMTP id 13so3129470ywh.29 for ; Fri, 30 Oct 2009 07:51:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=tvqD3/rb3KGbGnL6+ap/v1HlEzsPL6g72DPRDihSLD0=; b=X6aOmY02tfyDH5FzZ/fPr/zQwXau0bxNeQWrTXeLOyEGN4+waJFG5HyCEXxXK+dQw7 6XzxJWkN1b1bRT0qJMgA470fq4ZUXYaET73EWZkENRKfBGpQ1pbU3tMjsegJMq+aewdz FsGiCGzlkhg4UElVWShYSYS5ZiR6IvF2CFO3Q= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject :from:to:content-type; b=Y4L9h+rOBYtJYYeMVDfl3/0WJE8r6lTuInnAhnMvQDFJqwR1PzDdzUXR497ricncam XXTWHgq+L8ca528vaqliwN67isXPSPybElHVvIsxkFvvhC85d2Y4dARzaVp1HeoNSTCb XxcC3YqYzlVnPsoeSPY3n7oedbs7XwMR2lqFo= MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: mark.edward.davis@gmail.com Received: by 10.100.66.20 with SMTP id o20mr1269677ana.133.1256914252453; Fri, 30 Oct 2009 07:50:52 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 07:50:52 -0700 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 565334f193e6acc7 Message-ID: <30b660a20910300750l44dba964ja98eeab29f333a90@mail.gmail.com> From: =?UTF-8?B?TWFyayBEYXZpcyDimJU=?= To: LTRU Working Group , ietf-languages@iana.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00163623b12f885efc0477282731 Subject: [Ltru] Pinyin language? X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 14:50:48 -0000 --00163623b12f885efc0477282731 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 I was surprised to see the following; anyone know about it? % Type: language Subtag: pny Description: Pinyin Added: 2009-07-29 % Mark --00163623b12f885efc0477282731 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 I was surprised to see the following; anyone know about it?

%
Type: language
Subtag: pny
Description: Pinyin
Added: 2009-07-29
%

Mark
--00163623b12f885efc0477282731-- From cowan@ccil.org Fri Oct 30 08:02:32 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 998EE3A688A for ; Fri, 30 Oct 2009 08:02:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.062 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.062 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.363, BAYES_50=0.001, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bZMRYIP1gWqf for ; Fri, 30 Oct 2009 08:02:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from earth.ccil.org (earth.ccil.org [192.190.237.11]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B5913A6969 for ; Fri, 30 Oct 2009 08:02:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cowan by earth.ccil.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1N3t02-0003XP-Qh; Fri, 30 Oct 2009 11:02:46 -0400 Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 11:02:46 -0400 To: Mark Davis =?utf-8?B?4j8/?= Message-ID: <20091030150246.GD19696@mercury.ccil.org> References: <30b660a20910300750l44dba964ja98eeab29f333a90@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <30b660a20910300750l44dba964ja98eeab29f333a90@mail.gmail.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11) From: John Cowan Cc: ietf-languages@iana.org, LTRU Working Group Subject: Re: [Ltru] Pinyin language? X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 15:02:32 -0000 Mark Davis â?? scripsit: > I was surprised to see the following; anyone know about it? > > % > Type: language > Subtag: pny > Description: Pinyin > Added: 2009-07-29 > % Thus spake the Ethnologue at http://www.ethnologue.com/show_language.asp?code=pny : Pinyin A language of Cameroon ISO 639-3: pny Population 24,600 (2001 SIL). Region North West Province, Mezam Division, southwest Bamenda Subdivision, southwest of Bamenda. Language map Southwestern Cameroon, Enlarged Area, reference number 186 Alternate names Bapinyi, Pelimpo Dialects Related to Awing [aal], Ngemba [nge], Bafut [bfd], Mendankwe-Nkwen [mfd]. Classification Niger-Congo, Atlantic-Congo, Volta-Congo, Benue-Congo, Bantoid, Southern, Wide Grassfields, Narrow Grassfields, Mbam-Nkam, Ngemba Language development Literacy rate in L2: 15%-25%. Coincidences will happen. -- John Cowan http://ccil.org/~cowan cowan@ccil.org 'My young friend, if you do not now, immediately and instantly, pull as hard as ever you can, it is my opinion that your acquaintance in the large-pattern leather ulster' (and by this he meant the Crocodile) 'will jerk you into yonder limpid stream before you can say Jack Robinson.' --the Bi-Coloured-Python-Rock-Snake From lang.support@gmail.com Fri Oct 30 15:02:05 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC7FB3A6A09 for ; Fri, 30 Oct 2009 15:02:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.298 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.298 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1oXKvENKi+x6 for ; Fri, 30 Oct 2009 15:02:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-px0-f171.google.com (mail-px0-f171.google.com [209.85.216.171]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15B903A686C for ; Fri, 30 Oct 2009 15:02:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by pxi1 with SMTP id 1so2285946pxi.32 for ; Fri, 30 Oct 2009 15:02:20 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=wyRyQpP5F4BqMbBW7OLLbhBLAzqNpJVuEoqeaMkUP5I=; b=BLB60WBhfAwcd7EicTiP8WOcjB8ZE5cdajm+F96oOZ4Qky1FMDPQ1x5E0idMXgyi2H S89vL+IASBaoEl2hO3z2PEELSwTFDJPSTTsqaOvcovOKtklXsuWX6HWdz4tq/rdynWjJ 7ydjf8xbA07aJrYFnCxpIpibjNlTkeDxcunWw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; b=mpJjQZUk1aA6OIDKv46YVVpL+B0r5haMS+7QovaY0UetMBF96gKn/fYprIyN/s42uI I2nR5RwUt1ihz9AjxwQMzWCp3XcrHOu4JOzvM6/deetmsTFwnaHNQi3CkofJtP3Ihmn+ ylSxb0GwmNcbgLO2+6T+5b9FhdvwMfqRsP1O4= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.141.29.16 with SMTP id g16mr117218rvj.81.1256940139959; Fri, 30 Oct 2009 15:02:19 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4AEAB1E3.50305@it.aoyama.ac.jp> References: <19173.46660.701817.726727@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <49CB1917-6A69-448A-B619-644F8730940C@jfkew.plus.com> <4AEA91E9.4020708@twardoch.com> <4AEAB1E3.50305@it.aoyama.ac.jp> Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 09:02:19 +1100 Message-ID: <9d70cb000910301502se5053c5qbfa3562dbcbd850a@mail.gmail.com> From: Andrew Cunningham To: =?UTF-8?Q?Martin_J=2E_D=C3=BCrst?= Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cd175488bd5ed04772e2e58 Cc: Jonathan Kew , www-font , =?UTF-8?Q?H=C3=A5kon_Wium_Lie?= , www-style , Stephen Zilles , LTRU Working Group , "Adam Twardoch \(List\)" Subject: Re: [Ltru] font features in CSS X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 22:02:06 -0000 --000e0cd175488bd5ed04772e2e58 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 2009/10/30 "Martin J. D=C3=BCrst" > > (OT) (ISO) >> Chinese Hong Kong ZHH zho >> Chinese Phonetic ZHP zho >> Chinese Simplified ZHS zho >> Chinese Traditional ZHT zho >> > > > you are comparing apples and oranges ,as the expression goes. The ISO language codes and BCP47 are about languages. The table from teh OT spec is NOT a language idfentifier. It identifies wha= t the OT spec refers to as a language system. According to the spec: "Language system tags identify the language systems supported in a OpenType Layout font. What is meant by a =E2=80=9Clanguage system=E2=80=9D in this c= ontext is a set of typographic conventions for how text in a given script should be presented. Such conventions may be associated with particular languages, with particular genres of usage, with different publications, and other suc= h factors." The language system tag could map to one language, to multiple languages, and in unexpected ways. Grouping commonalities in orthographic representation and typesetting traditions are the core aspect as far as I can tell, rather than language identification. At least thats my partial understanding. Andrew --=20 Andrew Cunningham Vicnet Research and Development Coordinator State Library of Victoria Australia andrewc@vicnet.net.au lang.support@gmail.com --000e0cd175488bd5ed04772e2e58 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

2009/10/30 "Martin J. D=C3=BCrst&qu= ot; <duerst@= it.aoyama.ac.jp>

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 (OT) =C2=A0 =C2=A0(ISO)
Chinese Hong Kong =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 ZHH =C2=A0 =C2=A0 zho
Chinese Phonetic =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0ZHP =C2=A0 =C2=A0 zho
Chinese Simplified =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0ZHS =C2=A0 =C2=A0 zho
Chinese Traditional =C2=A0 =C2=A0 ZHT =C2=A0 =C2=A0 zho



you are comparing apples and orang= es ,as the expression goes. The ISO language codes and BCP47 are about lang= uages.

The table from teh OT spec is NOT a language idfentifier. It = identifies what the OT spec refers to as a language system. According to th= e spec:

"Language system tags identify the language systems supported in a OpenType Layout font. What is meant by a =E2=80=9Clanguage system=E2=80=9D = in this context is a set of typographic conventions for how text in a given script should be presented. Such conventions may be associated with particular languages, with particular genres of usage, with different publications, and other such factors."

The language system tag = could map to one language, to multiple languages, and in unexpected ways. G= rouping commonalities in orthographic representation and typesetting tradit= ions are the core aspect as far as I can tell, rather than language identif= ication.

At least thats my partial understanding.

Andrew

--
An= drew Cunningham
Vicnet Research and Development Coordinator
State Lib= rary of Victoria
Australia

andrewc@vicnet.net.au
lang.support@gmail.com
--000e0cd175488bd5ed04772e2e58-- From petercon@microsoft.com Fri Oct 30 15:53:24 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E64793A6872 for ; Fri, 30 Oct 2009 15:53:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -12.298 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-12.298 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id W+VzfYXUL6vs for ; Fri, 30 Oct 2009 15:53:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.microsoft.com (mail1.microsoft.com [131.107.115.212]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35FD63A6800 for ; Fri, 30 Oct 2009 15:53:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from TK5EX14MLTC103.redmond.corp.microsoft.com (157.54.79.174) by TK5-EXGWY-E801.partners.extranet.microsoft.com (10.251.56.50) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.2.176.0; Fri, 30 Oct 2009 15:53:50 -0700 Received: from TK5EX14MBXC141.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([169.254.9.208]) by TK5EX14MLTC103.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.79.174]) with mapi; Fri, 30 Oct 2009 15:53:35 -0700 From: Peter Constable To: Andrew Cunningham , =?utf-8?B?TWFydGluIEouIETDvHJzdA==?= Thread-Topic: [Ltru] font features in CSS Thread-Index: AQHKWUOgRqn8OFEpVUS0nzQ2VOBWYJEfHB2A//+NpjA= Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 22:53:34 +0000 Message-ID: References: <19173.46660.701817.726727@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <49CB1917-6A69-448A-B619-644F8730940C@jfkew.plus.com> <4AEA91E9.4020708@twardoch.com> <4AEAB1E3.50305@it.aoyama.ac.jp> <9d70cb000910301502se5053c5qbfa3562dbcbd850a@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <9d70cb000910301502se5053c5qbfa3562dbcbd850a@mail.gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_BF2262AF099A70419F68A17FF6338DF40440B8B6TK5EX14MBXC141r_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: LTRU Working Group , www-font , =?utf-8?B?SMOla29uIFdpdW0gTGll?= , www-style , Jonathan Kew , Stephen Zilles , "Adam Twardoch \(List\)" Subject: Re: [Ltru] font features in CSS X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 22:53:25 -0000 --_000_BF2262AF099A70419F68A17FF6338DF40440B8B6TK5EX14MBXC141r_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SW5kZWVkLCB0aGUgT1QgbGFuZ3VhZ2Ugc3lzdGVtIHRhZ3MgYXJlIGFib3V0IHR5cG9ncmFwaGlj IGNvbnZlbnRpb25zLiBOb3csIG1hbnkgbGFuZ3VhZ2VzIGhhdmUgYSBzaW5nbGUgY29udmVudGlv bmFsIHdyaXRpbmcgc3lzdGVtIGFuZCBhIHNpbmdsZSBzZXQgb2YgY29udmVudGlvbnMgZm9yIHR5 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Fri, 30 Oct 2009 16:02:16 -0700 From: Peter Constable To: Peter Constable , Andrew Cunningham , =?utf-8?B?TWFydGluIEouIETDvHJzdA==?= Thread-Topic: [Ltru] font features in CSS Thread-Index: AQHKWUOgRqn8OFEpVUS0nzQ2VOBWYJEfHB2A//+NpjCAAAuNAA== Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 23:02:15 +0000 Message-ID: References: <19173.46660.701817.726727@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <49CB1917-6A69-448A-B619-644F8730940C@jfkew.plus.com> <4AEA91E9.4020708@twardoch.com> <4AEAB1E3.50305@it.aoyama.ac.jp> <9d70cb000910301502se5053c5qbfa3562dbcbd850a@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_BF2262AF099A70419F68A17FF6338DF40440B96FTK5EX14MBXC141r_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 17:04:55 -0700 Cc: Jonathan Kew , www-font , =?utf-8?B?SMOla29uIFdpdW0gTGll?= , LTRU Working Group , www-style , Stephen Zilles , "Adam Twardoch \(List\)" Subject: Re: [Ltru] font features in CSS 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X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.331 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.269, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RXLqPH73Ikcr for ; Fri, 30 Oct 2009 17:40:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from earth.ccil.org (earth.ccil.org [192.190.237.11]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 038613A672E for ; Fri, 30 Oct 2009 17:40:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cowan by earth.ccil.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1N421l-0007p2-Hm; Fri, 30 Oct 2009 20:41:09 -0400 Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 20:41:09 -0400 To: Peter Constable Message-ID: <20091031004109.GE19026@mercury.ccil.org> References: <19173.46660.701817.726727@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <49CB1917-6A69-448A-B619-644F8730940C@jfkew.plus.com> <4AEA91E9.4020708@twardoch.com> <4AEAB1E3.50305@it.aoyama.ac.jp> <9d70cb000910301502se5053c5qbfa3562dbcbd850a@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11) From: John Cowan X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 14:26:38 -0700 Cc: LTRU Working Group , www-font , =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5kon?= Wium Lie , www-style , Stephen Zilles , Jonathan Kew , "Adam Twardoch \(List\)" Subject: Re: [Ltru] font features in CSS X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 00:40:57 -0000 Peter Constable scripsit: > Indeed, the OT language system tags are about typographic > conventions. Now, many languages have a single conventional writing > system and a single set of conventions for typography for that > writing system, though conventions may different for other languages > with writing systems based on the same script. Is the repertoire of characters considered part of the typographic convention of a language? Because if so, hardly two languages will share the same conventions. -- There are three kinds of people in the world: John Cowan those who can count, cowan@ccil.org and those who can't.