From petercon@microsoft.com Wed Dec 2 08:49:34 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3FA63A6ACB; Wed, 2 Dec 2009 08:49:34 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EZUHso2hh6MM; Wed, 2 Dec 2009 08:49:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.microsoft.com (maila.microsoft.com [131.107.115.212]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DEFBF3A67F4; Wed, 2 Dec 2009 08:49:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from TK5EX14HUBC102.redmond.corp.microsoft.com (157.54.7.154) by TK5-EXGWY-E801.partners.extranet.microsoft.com (10.251.56.50) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.2.176.0; Wed, 2 Dec 2009 08:49:53 -0800 Received: from TK5EX14MBXC141.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([169.254.9.208]) by TK5EX14HUBC102.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.7.154]) with mapi; Wed, 2 Dec 2009 08:49:25 -0800 From: Peter Constable To: IESG Secretary , "ietf-announce@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Ltru] WG Action: Conclusion of Language Tag Registry Update (ltru) Thread-Index: AQHKces7ERaol+gChkyqCI+cBm24HZFR9XJg Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 16:49:24 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20091130183002.073FE28C15D@core3.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20091130183002.073FE28C15D@core3.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "ltru@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Ltru] WG Action: Conclusion of Language Tag Registry Update (ltru) X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Dec 2009 16:49:34 -0000 Note: searches for BCP 47 don't quickly take one to RFC 5646. In particular= , one result is this link http://tools.ietf.org/html/bcp47 which take one to RFC 4646. Peter -----Original Message----- From: ltru-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ltru-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of IES= G Secretary Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 10:30 AM To: ietf-announce@ietf.org Cc: ltru@ietf.org Subject: [Ltru] WG Action: Conclusion of Language Tag Registry Update (ltru= ) The Language Tag Registry Update (ltru) working group in the Applications A= rea has concluded. The IESG contact persons are Alexey Melnikov and Lisa Dusseault. The LTRU working group has successfully completed its deliverables and can = now be closed. The ADs would like to thank everyone who participated in the= work over the years.=20 The mailing list will remain open. _______________________________________________ Ltru mailing list Ltru@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From randy_presuhn@mindspring.com Wed Dec 2 09:02:41 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A6533A67B6; Wed, 2 Dec 2009 09:02:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dsJVlTV58MYR; Wed, 2 Dec 2009 09:02:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.69]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E50A3A67A5; Wed, 2 Dec 2009 09:02:40 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=mindspring.com; b=bgcPlfinD4jU2/MPK4c3Ixi0rLi9q2AI5VxgBQgPFC6GCw/ATK7P14mKlvh3VfH/; h=Received:Message-ID:From:To:Cc:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MIMEOLE:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [99.35.225.141] (helo=oemcomputer) by elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1NFsb2-0007I5-5R; Wed, 02 Dec 2009 12:02:32 -0500 Message-ID: <008f01ca7371$6d695a00$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> From: "Randy Presuhn" To: "Peter Constable" , "IESG Secretary" References: <20091130183002.073FE28C15D@core3.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 09:03:52 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-ELNK-Trace: 4488c18417c9426da92b9037bc8bcf44d4c20f6b8d69d8881afdcb5313ff34f9d3a98ac14073f650883684de3ee43121350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 99.35.225.141 Cc: ltru@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Ltru] WG Action: Conclusion of Language Tag Registry Update (ltru) X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Dec 2009 17:02:41 -0000 Hi - > From: "Peter Constable" > To: "IESG Secretary" ; > Cc: > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:49 AM > Subject: Re: [Ltru] WG Action: Conclusion of Language Tag Registry Update (ltru) > > Note: searches for BCP 47 don't quickly take one to RFC 5646. In particular, one result is this link > > http://tools.ietf.org/html/bcp47 > > which take one to RFC 4646. No, it does not. The first line below the list of links says: [Note that this file is a concatenation of more than one RFC.] The RFCs there are 4647 and 5646. It looks fine to me. Randy From petercon@microsoft.com Wed Dec 2 11:21:03 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00A4D3A6B03; Wed, 2 Dec 2009 11:21:03 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ncPWcODS0W-6; Wed, 2 Dec 2009 11:21:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.microsoft.com (maila.microsoft.com [131.107.115.212]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C0503A6B02; Wed, 2 Dec 2009 11:21:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from TK5EX14HUBC103.redmond.corp.microsoft.com (157.54.86.9) by TK5-EXGWY-E801.partners.extranet.microsoft.com (10.251.56.50) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.2.176.0; Wed, 2 Dec 2009 11:21:20 -0800 Received: from TK5EX14MBXC141.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([169.254.9.208]) by TK5EX14HUBC103.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.86.9]) with mapi; Wed, 2 Dec 2009 11:20:22 -0800 From: Peter Constable To: Randy Presuhn , IESG Secretary Thread-Topic: [Ltru] WG Action: Conclusion of Language Tag Registry Update (ltru) Thread-Index: AQHKces7ERaol+gChkyqCI+cBm24HZFR9XJggAAJXW+AACSz0A== Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 19:20:22 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20091130183002.073FE28C15D@core3.amsl.com> <008f01ca7371$6d695a00$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> In-Reply-To: <008f01ca7371$6d695a00$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "ltru@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Ltru] WG Action: Conclusion of Language Tag Registry Update (ltru) X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Dec 2009 19:21:03 -0000 My bad: I saw "4647" and "Obsoletes: 3066" and misread the former as "4646"= . The user experience would be much better, IMO, if the note at the top named= the RFCs, "... is a concatenation of RFCs 4647 and 5646", and if this were= HTML (as the URL suggests, btw) with links at that top of the page to the = start of each RFC. Peter -----Original Message----- From: Randy Presuhn [mailto:randy_presuhn@mindspring.com]=20 Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:04 AM To: Peter Constable; IESG Secretary Cc: ltru@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Ltru] WG Action: Conclusion of Language Tag Registry Update (= ltru) Hi - > From: "Peter Constable" > To: "IESG Secretary" ; > Cc: > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:49 AM > Subject: Re: [Ltru] WG Action: Conclusion of Language Tag Registry Update= (ltru) > > Note: searches for BCP 47 don't quickly take one to RFC 5646. In particul= ar, one result is this link >=20 > http://tools.ietf.org/html/bcp47 >=20 > which take one to RFC 4646. No, it does not. The first line below the list of links says: [Note that this file is a concatenation of more than one RFC.] The RFCs there are 4647 and 5646. It looks fine to me. Randy From randy_presuhn@mindspring.com Sun Dec 13 20:20:58 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8A2D3A68B7 for ; Sun, 13 Dec 2009 20:20:58 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.042 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.042 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.557, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id q0KXuGtkuwaO for ; Sun, 13 Dec 2009 20:20:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.61]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CEEF728C0F2 for ; Sun, 13 Dec 2009 20:20:49 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=mindspring.com; b=cLtDt4MMGuvArgY/Zvbi+1H9ZLmtRhTTsMK7Z2HRTSQ8/Vfbr7xXG2Vw/OJ3Wwau; h=Received:Message-ID:From:To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [76.254.55.58] (helo=oemcomputer) by elasmtp-galgo.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1NK2QC-0006ED-E6 for ltru@ietf.org; Sun, 13 Dec 2009 23:20:32 -0500 Message-ID: <012a01ca7c75$07aa4e60$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> From: "Randy Presuhn" To: "LTRU Working Group" Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 20:22:18 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0127_01CA7C31.F7B29C80" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-ELNK-Trace: 4488c18417c9426da92b9037bc8bcf44d4c20f6b8d69d888494b88d665f13b40d050e05659d86cc3768b4327abea893a350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 76.254.55.58 Subject: [Ltru] Fw: I-D Action:draft-burnett-pronunciation-alphabet-registry-00.txt X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 04:20:59 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0127_01CA7C31.F7B29C80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi - This i-d might be of interest to folks who participated in the ltru effort. Randy ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 5:00 AM > Subject: I-D Action:draft-burnett-pronunciation-alphabet-registry-00.txt > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. > > Title : Pronunciation Alphabet Registry > Author(s) : D. Burnett, Z. Shuang > Filename : draft-burnett-pronunciation-alphabet-registry-00.txt > Pages : 16 > Date : 2009-12-04 > > This document describes a new registry for Pronunciation Alphabets, > such as pinyin, that can be used to describe pronunciations of words > and phrases in a particular language. > > Status of this Memo > > This Internet-Draft is submitted to IETF in full conformance with the > provisions of BCP 78 and BCP 79. > > Internet-Drafts are working documents of the Internet Engineering > Task Force (IETF), its areas, and its working groups. Note that > other groups may also distribute working documents as Internet- > Drafts. > > Internet-Drafts are draft documents valid for a maximum of six months > and may be updated, replaced, or obsoleted by other documents at any > time. It is inappropriate to use Internet-Drafts as reference > material or to cite them other than as "work in progress." > > The list of current Internet-Drafts can be accessed at > http://www.ietf.org/ietf/1id-abstracts.txt. > > The list of Internet-Draft Shadow Directories can be accessed at > http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html. > > This Internet-Draft will expire on June 7, 2010. > > Copyright Notice > > Copyright (c) 2009 IETF Trust and the persons identified as the > document authors. All rights reserved. > > This document is subject to BCP 78 and the IETF Trust's Legal > Provisions Relating to IETF Documents > (http://trustee.ietf.org/license-info) in effect on the date of > publication of this document. Please review these documents > carefully, as they describe your rights and restrictions with respect > to this document. Code Components extracted from this document must > include Simplified BSD License text as described in Section 4.e of > the Trust Legal Provisions and are provided without warranty as > described in the BSD License. > > A URL for this Internet-Draft is: > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-burnett-pronunciation-alphabet-registry-00.txt > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader > implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the > Internet-Draft. > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > I-D-Announce mailing list > I-D-Announce@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce > Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html > or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt > ------=_NextPart_000_0127_01CA7C31.F7B29C80 Content-Type: text/plain; name="draft-burnett-pronunciation-alphabet-registry-00.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="draft-burnett-pronunciation-alphabet-registry-00.txt" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2009-12-04045156.I-D@ietf.org> ------=_NextPart_000_0127_01CA7C31.F7B29C80-- From cowan@ccil.org Tue Dec 15 13:02:45 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B4543A68C8 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 2009 13:02:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ya7C5UOwkqCo for ; Tue, 15 Dec 2009 13:02:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from earth.ccil.org (earth.ccil.org [192.190.237.11]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8F963A6AE8 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 2009 13:02:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from cowan by earth.ccil.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1NKeXN-0007pr-9e; Tue, 15 Dec 2009 16:02:29 -0500 Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 16:02:29 -0500 To: Randy Presuhn Message-ID: <20091215210229.GA28404@mercury.ccil.org> References: <012a01ca7c75$07aa4e60$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <012a01ca7c75$07aa4e60$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11) From: John Cowan Cc: LTRU Working Group Subject: Re: [Ltru] Fw: I-D Action:draft-burnett-pronunciation-alphabet-registry-00.txt X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 21:02:45 -0000 Randy Presuhn scripsit: > Hi - > > This i-d might be of interest to folks who participated in the ltru effort. This effort seems singularly pointless and duplicative, since these Pronouncing Alphabets are just romanization systems, and we already register those as variant subtags. Is there any IETF-ly organizational method of discouraging this? -- But that, he realized, was a foolish John Cowan thought; as no one knew better than he cowan@ccil.org that the Wall had no other side. http://www.ccil.org/~cowan --Arthur C. Clarke, "The Wall of Darkness" From randy_presuhn@mindspring.com Tue Dec 15 22:43:54 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90E343A67B0 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 2009 22:43:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.74 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.74 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.370, BAYES_05=-1.11] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5wi-6Wa8wbfJ for ; Tue, 15 Dec 2009 22:43:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.65]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C66363A6813 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 2009 22:43:52 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=mindspring.com; b=df7Wn2Meh0VKD2ZSPhcsQzTYgW4jOQLINBRoclyvEQo2y85vOnoC0fys/IN2TfDO; h=Received:Message-ID:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [99.41.55.230] (helo=oemcomputer) by elasmtp-kukur.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1NKnbc-0001DL-Iu for ltru@ietf.org; Wed, 16 Dec 2009 01:43:28 -0500 Message-ID: <001d01ca7e1b$4a6796c0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> From: "Randy Presuhn" To: "LTRU Working Group" References: <012a01ca7c75$07aa4e60$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> <20091215210229.GA28404@mercury.ccil.org> Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 22:44:34 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-ELNK-Trace: 4488c18417c9426da92b9037bc8bcf44d4c20f6b8d69d888494b88d665f13b4013325228dd52b90cec7f90129d33acd5350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 99.41.55.230 Subject: Re: [Ltru] Fw: I-D Action:draft-burnett-pronunciation-alphabet-registry-00.txt X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 06:43:54 -0000 Hi - > From: "John Cowan" > To: "Randy Presuhn" > Cc: "LTRU Working Group" > Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 1:02 PM > Subject: Re: [Ltru] Fw: I-D Action:draft-burnett-pronunciation-alphabet-registry-00.txt ... > This effort seems singularly pointless and duplicative, since these > Pronouncing Alphabets are just romanization systems, and we already > register those as variant subtags. > > Is there any IETF-ly organizational method of discouraging this? ... My suggestion would be to engage directly with the authors, and to perhaps request use cases (for potential inclusion in the document) to clarify whether these are in fact "just romanization systems", and whether a (select subset of) language tags could provide the same functionality or not. It's really important to get clarification (and to make the draft clear) about this point. (FWIW, I don't see why a pronouncing alphavet would *necessarily* be a romanization system.) The next point of input would be to alert an Area Diretor (e.g. Alexey Melnikov) so that the IESG would be aware of potential concerns, particularly potential overlap with existing IETF BCP. Randy From petercon@microsoft.com Wed Dec 16 01:00:06 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA0FE3A697C for ; Wed, 16 Dec 2009 01:00:06 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LhMt1joJkGYc for ; Wed, 16 Dec 2009 01:00:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.microsoft.com (mailb.microsoft.com [131.107.115.215]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 031A33A696C for ; Wed, 16 Dec 2009 01:00:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from TK5EX14HUBC103.redmond.corp.microsoft.com (157.54.86.9) by TK5-EXGWY-E802.partners.extranet.microsoft.com (10.251.56.168) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.2.176.0; Wed, 16 Dec 2009 01:00:22 -0800 Received: from TK5EX14MBXC141.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([169.254.9.208]) by TK5EX14HUBC103.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.86.9]) with mapi; Wed, 16 Dec 2009 00:59:51 -0800 From: Peter Constable To: Randy Presuhn , LTRU Working Group Thread-Topic: [Ltru] Fw: I-D Action:draft-burnett-pronunciation-alphabet-registry-00.txt Thread-Index: AQHKfhs6Z3Na2FbcAkqDFVzdUSyl55FnX3nw Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 08:59:49 +0000 Message-ID: References: <012a01ca7c75$07aa4e60$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> <20091215210229.GA28404@mercury.ccil.org> <001d01ca7e1b$4a6796c0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> In-Reply-To: <001d01ca7e1b$4a6796c0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [Ltru] Fw: I-D Action:draft-burnett-pronunciation-alphabet-registry-00.txt X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 09:00:06 -0000 From: ltru-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ltru-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ran= dy Presuhn > (FWIW, I don't see why a pronouncing alphavet would *necessarily* be a ro= manization system.) Indeed: I met a Korean linguist about 10 years ago who was promoting use of= Hangul for general phonetic transcription. Peter From kent.karlsson14@comhem.se Wed Dec 16 01:39:41 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6118E3A69AA for ; Wed, 16 Dec 2009 01:39:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rxHF0Ya-zghe for ; Wed, 16 Dec 2009 01:39:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from ch-smtp02.sth.basefarm.net (ch-smtp02.sth.basefarm.net [80.76.149.213]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F73E3A699E for ; Wed, 16 Dec 2009 01:39:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from c83-248-179-85.bredband.comhem.se ([83.248.179.85]:32992 helo=[192.168.1.2]) by ch-smtp02.sth.basefarm.net with esmtp (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1NKqL1-0004i5-7C; Wed, 16 Dec 2009 10:38:33 +0100 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/12.23.0.091001 Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 10:38:24 +0100 From: Kent Karlsson To: Peter Constable , Randy Presuhn , LTRU Working Group Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [Ltru] Fw: I-D Action:draft-burnett-pronunciation-alphabet-registry-00.txt Thread-Index: AQHKfhs6Z3Na2FbcAkqDFVzdUSyl55FnX3nwgAALVik= In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable X-Originating-IP: 83.248.179.85 X-Scan-Result: No virus found in message 1NKqL1-0004i5-7C. X-Scan-Signature: ch-smtp02.sth.basefarm.net 1NKqL1-0004i5-7C ac5b2ddc4885e52d969840d426291b82 Subject: Re: [Ltru] Fw: I-D Action:draft-burnett-pronunciation-alphabet-registry-00.txt X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 09:39:41 -0000 I don't know who you are referring to... But I know of a book partly on the subject of using Hangul as a phonetic alphabet (OPA, Othophonic alphabet): The Korean alphabet of 1446 =AD Expositions, OPA, The visible speech sounds, Annotated translation, Future applicability; Sek Yen Kim-Cho, Humanity Book= s and AC Press, New York, 2002, ISBN 89-428-1587-1. http://www.amazon.com/Korean-Alphabet-1446-Expositions-Applicability/dp/159= 1 02000X /kent k Den 2009-12-16 09.59, skrev "Peter Constable" : > From: ltru-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ltru-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of R= andy > Presuhn >=20 >> (FWIW, I don't see why a pronouncing alphavet would *necessarily* be a >> romanization system.) >=20 > Indeed: I met a Korean linguist about 10 years ago who was promoting use = of > Hangul for general phonetic transcription. >=20 >=20 >=20 > Peter > _______________________________________________ > Ltru mailing list > Ltru@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ltru From lhs@malform.no Wed Dec 16 05:28:35 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 991E73A687D for ; Wed, 16 Dec 2009 05:28:35 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_34=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YEov+EzUcvDf for ; Wed, 16 Dec 2009 05:28:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.domeneshop.no (smtp.domeneshop.no [194.63.248.54]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8B303A680E for ; Wed, 16 Dec 2009 05:28:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from cm-84.208.110.159.getinternet.no ([84.208.110.159] helo=[10.0.1.2]) by smtp.domeneshop.no with esmtpa (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NKtvM-0000iT-Dq; Wed, 16 Dec 2009 14:28:19 +0100 Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 14:28:04 +0100 From: Leif Halvard Silli To: Peter Constable Message-ID: <20091216142804233819.e6a7ff2f@malform.no> In-Reply-To: References: <012a01ca7c75$07aa4e60$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> <20091215210229.GA28404@mercury.ccil.org> <001d01ca7e1b$4a6796c0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Organization: =?utf-8?B?TcOlbGZvcm0ubm8=?= X-Mailer: GyazMail version 1.5.9 Cc: LTRU Working Group Subject: Re: [Ltru] Fw: I-D Action:draft-burnett-pronunciation-alphabet-registry-00.txt X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 13:28:35 -0000 UGV0ZXIgQ29uc3RhYmxlLCBXZWQsIDE2IERlYyAyMDA5IDA4OjU5OjQ5ICswMDAwOg0KPiBG cm9tOiBsdHJ1LWJvdW5jZXNAaWV0Zi5vcmcgW21haWx0bzpsdHJ1LWJvdW5jZXNAaWV0Zi5v 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EX-HUB-6001.ant.amazon.com (ex-hub-6001.iad6.amazon.com [10.124.65.22]) by smtp-in-0201.sea3.amazon.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id nBGG8CQd017708 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=FAIL); Wed, 16 Dec 2009 16:08:13 GMT Received: from EX-IAD6-B.ant.amazon.com ([10.124.65.26]) by EX-HUB-6001.ant.amazon.com ([10.124.65.22]) with mapi; Wed, 16 Dec 2009 11:08:09 -0500 From: "Phillips, Addison" To: Randy Presuhn , LTRU Working Group Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 11:08:07 -0500 Thread-Topic: [Ltru] Fw: I-D Action:draft-burnett-pronunciation-alphabet-registry-00.txt Thread-Index: Acp+Gx2z9j04xsR/SySKlQ9XYBSWzAATFgtA Message-ID: References: <012a01ca7c75$07aa4e60$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> <20091215210229.GA28404@mercury.ccil.org> <001d01ca7e1b$4a6796c0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> In-Reply-To: <001d01ca7e1b$4a6796c0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [Ltru] Fw: I-D Action:draft-burnett-pronunciation-alphabet-registry-00.txt X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 16:08:33 -0000 SGksDQoNCkFjdHVhbGx5LCBJIHNwb2tlIHdpdGggdGhlIGF1dGhvcnMgKHRoZXkgcmVwcmVzZW50 IHRoZSBXM0MgU1NNTCBbU3BlZWNoIFN5bnRoZXNpcyBNYXJrdXAgTGFuZ3VhZ2VdIFdvcmtpbmcg R3JvdXApIGxhc3QgbW9udGggYXQgVzNDIFRQQUMgaW4gU2FudGEgQ2xhcmEuIFRoZSBwcm9ibGVt IHRoZXkgYXJlIHRyeWluZyB0byBzb2x2ZSBsb29rcyBzdXBlcmZpY2lhbGx5IGxpa2UgYSBqb2Ig Zm9yIGxhbmd1YWdlIHRhZ3MgYW5kIG15IGZpcnN0IGFkdmljZSB0byB0aGVtIHdhcyB0byBjb25z aWRlciByZWdpc3RyYXRpb24gb2Ygc3VidGFncywgdXNlIG9mIGxhbmd1YWdlIHRhZ3MsIG9yIGNy ZWF0aW9uIG9mIGFuIGV4dGVuc2lvbi4gSG93ZXZlciB0aGV5IGhhZCByZWFzb25zIHRvIHNlZWsg 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IGFzIHZhcmlhbnQgc3VidGFncy4NCj4gPg0KPiA+IElzIHRoZXJlIGFueSBJRVRGLWx5IG9yZ2Fu aXphdGlvbmFsIG1ldGhvZCBvZiBkaXNjb3VyYWdpbmcgdGhpcz8NCj4gLi4uDQo+IA0KPiBNeSBz dWdnZXN0aW9uIHdvdWxkIGJlIHRvIGVuZ2FnZSBkaXJlY3RseSB3aXRoIHRoZSBhdXRob3JzLA0K PiBhbmQgdG8gcGVyaGFwcyByZXF1ZXN0IHVzZSBjYXNlcyAoZm9yIHBvdGVudGlhbCBpbmNsdXNp b24gaW4NCj4gdGhlIGRvY3VtZW50KSB0byBjbGFyaWZ5IHdoZXRoZXIgdGhlc2UgYXJlIGluIGZh Y3QgImp1c3QNCj4gcm9tYW5pemF0aW9uDQo+IHN5c3RlbXMiLCBhbmQgd2hldGhlciBhIChzZWxl Y3Qgc3Vic2V0IG9mKSBsYW5ndWFnZSB0YWdzIGNvdWxkDQo+IHByb3ZpZGUgdGhlIHNhbWUgZnVu Y3Rpb25hbGl0eSBvciBub3QuICBJdCdzIHJlYWxseSBpbXBvcnRhbnQgdG8NCj4gZ2V0IGNsYXJp ZmljYXRpb24gKGFuZCB0byBtYWtlIHRoZSBkcmFmdCBjbGVhcikgYWJvdXQgdGhpcyBwb2ludC4N Cj4gDQo+IChGV0lXLCBJIGRvbid0IHNlZSB3aHkgYSBwcm9ub3VuY2luZyBhbHBoYXZldCB3b3Vs ZCAqbmVjZXNzYXJpbHkqDQo+IGJlIGEgcm9tYW5pemF0aW9uIHN5c3RlbS4pDQo+IA0KPiBUaGUg bmV4dCBwb2ludCBvZiBpbnB1dCB3b3VsZCBiZSB0byBhbGVydCBhbiBBcmVhIERpcmV0b3IgKGUu Zy4NCj4gQWxleGV5IE1lbG5pa292KSBzbyB0aGF0IHRoZSBJRVNHIHdvdWxkIGJlIGF3YXJlIG9m IHBvdGVudGlhbA0KPiBjb25jZXJucywgcGFydGljdWxhcmx5IHBvdGVudGlhbCBvdmVybGFwIHdp dGggZXhpc3RpbmcgSUVURiBCQ1AuDQo+IA0KPiBSYW5keQ0KPiANCj4gX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCj4gTHRydSBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCj4g THRydUBpZXRmLm9yZw0KPiBodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL2x0 cnUNCg== From lhs@malform.no Wed Dec 16 11:56:53 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4EC53A6834 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 2009 11:56:53 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.555 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.555 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.555, BAYES_05=-1.11, GB_I_LETTER=-2] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OCU1laUm32AC for ; Wed, 16 Dec 2009 11:56:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.domeneshop.no (smtp.domeneshop.no [194.63.248.54]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97F803A677C for ; Wed, 16 Dec 2009 11:56:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from cm-84.208.110.159.getinternet.no ([84.208.110.159] helo=[10.0.1.2]) by smtp.domeneshop.no with esmtpa (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NKzz7-0006XI-05; Wed, 16 Dec 2009 20:56:33 +0100 Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 20:56:31 +0100 From: Leif Halvard Silli To: "Phillips, Addison" Message-ID: <20091216205631957633.bb4405de@malform.no> In-Reply-To: References: <012a01ca7c75$07aa4e60$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> <20091215210229.GA28404@mercury.ccil.org> <001d01ca7e1b$4a6796c0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Organization: =?utf-8?B?TcOlbGZvcm0ubm8=?= X-Mailer: GyazMail version 1.5.9 Cc: LTRU Working Group Subject: Re: [Ltru] Fw: I-D Action:draft-burnett-pronunciation-alphabet-registry-00.txt X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 19:56:53 -0000 Phillips, Addison, Wed, 16 Dec 2009 11:08:07 -0500: > [..] the authors (they represent the W3C SSML [..] had reasons to seek > a separate registry which didn't seem unreasonable to me at the time. >=20 > The main thing is that pronunciation schemes tend to be vendor=20 > specific and are not necessarily transcriptions or, in fact, even=20 > useful outside the speech synthesis process. It seems unlikely to me=20 > that the language subtag registry would take in a wide variety of=20 > these things, especially the vendor-specific variations. They cease to be vendor specific when registered in the Pronunciation=20 Registry (PR), just as windows-1252 has long ago ceased to be Windows=20 specific. PR obviously should exist on its own. But perhaps it would be=20 useful if there were cooperation between the PR and LTR: * PR could be shaped more like LTR is. What about recommending=20 "pinyin-2001" instead of "pinyin2001"? Then it would be easy to reuse=20 '2001' in LTR, if requested. And 'fonipa' could be registered in the PR=20 as an alias for 'ipa', to reflect the LTRU registry.=20 * Many pronunciations alphabets are unregistered, and regardless of=20 where they would registered first, the tag they would get in the first=20 registration, could be a candidate for reuse in the other registry. Examples of unregistered (anywhere) pronunciation alphabets that I am=20 aware of: * the Russian phonetic/pronunciation alphabet for use in education and=20 teaching of Russian. It only uses a subset of the usual Russian=20 Cyrillic letters + diacritical marks. * Norvegia, for the notation of spoken/dialect Norwegian (in use since=20 19th century) [1][2] * Danish has the Danica alphabet and Swedish has a similar thing.[2] I can already say that we ourselves in our teaching material efforts=20 would have found it practical if there existed a LTR variant subtag for=20 the Russian pronunciation alphabet. [1] http://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norvegia_(lydskrift) [2]=A0http://www.hum.uit.no/Forproven/Fagpresentasjoner/lydskrift.html --=20 leif halvard silli From petercon@microsoft.com Wed Dec 16 13:20:37 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 966E53A6A8D for ; Wed, 16 Dec 2009 13:20:37 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IqknHXFJ0Uxb for ; Wed, 16 Dec 2009 13:20:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.microsoft.com (smtp.microsoft.com [131.107.115.215]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDDF93A6A79 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 2009 13:20:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from TK5EX14MLTC104.redmond.corp.microsoft.com (157.54.79.159) by TK5-EXGWY-E802.partners.extranet.microsoft.com (10.251.56.168) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.2.176.0; Wed, 16 Dec 2009 13:20:53 -0800 Received: from TK5EX14MBXC141.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([169.254.9.208]) by TK5EX14MLTC104.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.79.159]) with mapi; Wed, 16 Dec 2009 13:20:22 -0800 From: Peter Constable To: Leif Halvard Silli Thread-Topic: [Ltru] Fw: I-D Action:draft-burnett-pronunciation-alphabet-registry-00.txt Thread-Index: AQHKflIIOZ9Mcej5lEqM77C2QrPsZJFoLhGw Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 21:20:20 +0000 Message-ID: References: <012a01ca7c75$07aa4e60$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> <20091215210229.GA28404@mercury.ccil.org> <001d01ca7e1b$4a6796c0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> <20091216141520370142.1370f40b@xn--mlform-iua.no> In-Reply-To: <20091216141520370142.1370f40b@xn--mlform-iua.no> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: LTRU Working Group Subject: Re: [Ltru] Fw: I-D Action:draft-burnett-pronunciation-alphabet-registry-00.txt X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 21:20:37 -0000 RnJvbTogTGVpZiBIYWx2YXJkIFNpbGxpIFttYWlsdG86eG4tLW1sZm9ybS1pdWFAbcOlbGZvcm0u bm9dIA0KDQo+IFRoZSBwcm9udW5jaWF0aW9uIGFscGhhYmV0IHJlZ2lzdHJ5IGlzIG1lYW50IHRv IGJlIHVzZWQgaW4gZG9jdW1lbnRzIA0KPiBjcmFmdGVkIGFjY29yZGluZyB0byB0aGUgUHJvbnVu Y2lhdGlvbiBMZXhpY29uIFNwZWNpZmljYXRpb24gb3IgdGhlIA0KPiBTcGVlY2ggU3ludGhlc2lz IE1hcmt1cCBMYW5ndWFnZS4uLg0KDQpJdCB3b3VsZCBoYXZlIGJlIGhlbHBmdWwgaWYgdGhhdCBo YWQgYmVlbiBjbGVhciBpbiB0aGUgaW50cm9kdWN0aW9uLiBJIGxvb2tlZCBmb3IgaW5kaWNhdG9y cyBvZiB0aGUgaW50ZW5kZWQgYXBwbGljYXRpb25zIGFuZCBkaWRuJ3Qgc2VlIGFueXRoaW5nIEkg cmVjb2duaXplZCBhcyBzdWNoLg0KDQoNCg0KUGV0ZXINCg== From lhs@malform.no Wed Dec 16 14:35:24 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E3603A68DD for ; Wed, 16 Dec 2009 14:35:24 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.577 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.577 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.022, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CjNHrx6Mt+pU for ; Wed, 16 Dec 2009 14:35:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.domeneshop.no (smtp.domeneshop.no [194.63.248.54]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88BE53A6A12 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 2009 14:35:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from cm-84.208.110.159.getinternet.no ([84.208.110.159] helo=[10.0.1.2]) by smtp.domeneshop.no with esmtpa (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NL2SZ-0003cn-Ac; Wed, 16 Dec 2009 23:35:07 +0100 Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 23:35:03 +0100 From: Leif Halvard Silli To: Peter Constable Message-ID: <20091216233503003964.f9242607@malform.no> In-Reply-To: References: <012a01ca7c75$07aa4e60$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> <20091215210229.GA28404@mercury.ccil.org> <001d01ca7e1b$4a6796c0$6801a8c0@oemcomputer> <20091216141520370142.1370f40b@xn--mlform-iua.no> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Organization: =?utf-8?B?TcOlbGZvcm0ubm8=?= X-Mailer: GyazMail version 1.5.9 Cc: LTRU Working Group Subject: Re: [Ltru] Fw: I-D Action:draft-burnett-pronunciation-alphabet-registry-00.txt X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 22:35:24 -0000 UGV0ZXIgQ29uc3RhYmxlLCBXZWQsIDE2IERlYyAyMDA5IDIxOjIwOjIwICswMDAwOg0KPiBG cm9tOiBMZWlmIEhhbHZhcmQgU2lsbGkgW21haWx0bzp4bi0tbWxmb3JtLWl1YUBtw6VsZm9y bS5ub10gDQo+IA0KPj4gVGhlIHByb251bmNpYXRpb24gYWxwaGFiZXQgcmVnaXN0cnkgaXMg bWVhbnQgdG8gYmUgdXNlZCBpbiBkb2N1bWVudHMgDQo+PiBjcmFmdGVkIGFjY29yZGluZyB0 byB0aGUgUHJvbnVuY2lhdGlvbiBMZXhpY29uIFNwZWNpZmljYXRpb24gb3IgdGhlIA0KPj4g U3BlZWNoIFN5bnRoZXNpcyBNYXJrdXAgTGFuZ3VhZ2UuLi4NCj4gDQo+IEl0IHdvdWxkIGhh dmUgYmUgaGVscGZ1bCBpZiB0aGF0IGhhZCBiZWVuIGNsZWFyIGluIHRoZSBpbnRyb2R1Y3Rp b24uIA0KPiBJIGxvb2tlZCBmb3IgaW5kaWNhdG9ycyBvZiB0aGUgaW50ZW5kZWQgYXBwbGlj YXRpb25zIGFuZCBkaWRuJ3Qgc2VlIA0KPiBhbnl0aGluZyBJIHJlY29nbml6ZWQgYXMgc3Vj aC4NCg0KU2Vjb25kIHBhcmFncmFwaCBvZiB0aGUgaW50cm9kdWN0aW9uOg0KDQpdXQ0KICAg UHJvbnVuY2lhdGlvbiBBbHBoYWJldCB0YWdzIGNhbiBiZSB1c2VkIGluIHRoZSBhbHBoYWJl dCBhdHRyaWJ1dGUgb2YNCiAgIHRoZSBwaG9uZW1lIGVsZW1lbnQgaW4gdGhlIFNwZWVjaCBT eW50aGVzaXMgTWFya3VwIExhbmd1YWdlDQogICBbVzNDLkNSLXNwZWVjaC1zeW50aGVzaXMx MS0yMDA5MDgyN10uICBBdCBzb21lIHBvaW50IGluIHRoZSBmdXR1cmUNCiAgIHRoZXkgbWF5 IGFsc28gYmUgdXNhYmxlIHdpdGhpbiB0aGUgYWxwaGFiZXQgYXR0cmlidXRlIG9mIHRoZSBw aG9uZW1lDQogICBhbmQgbGV4aWNvbiBlbGVtZW50cyBpbiB0aGUgUHJvbnVuY2lhdGlvbiBM ZXhpY29uIFNwZWNpZmljYXRpb24NCiAgIFtXM0MuUkVDLXByb251bmNpYXRpb24tbGV4aWNv bi0yMDA4MTAxNF0uDQpbWw0KLS0gDQpsZWlmIGhhbHZhcmQgc2lsbGk= From doug@ewellic.org Sun Dec 27 20:29:15 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: ltru@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 147FA3A6452 for ; Sun, 27 Dec 2009 20:29:15 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.002 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.002 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.001, BAYES_50=0.001, STOX_REPLY_TYPE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IGlyRxLn4z4d for ; Sun, 27 Dec 2009 20:29:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from p3plsmtpa01-09.prod.phx3.secureserver.net (p3plsmtpa01-09.prod.phx3.secureserver.net [72.167.82.89]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 8D9573A6403 for ; Sun, 27 Dec 2009 20:29:13 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 11159 invoked from network); 28 Dec 2009 04:28:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (24.8.55.39) by p3plsmtpa01-09.prod.phx3.secureserver.net (72.167.82.89) with ESMTP; 28 Dec 2009 04:28:54 -0000 Message-ID: <3A9CA14821D345549549FB979DD8EA6C@DGBP7M81> From: "Doug Ewell" To: "LTRU Working Group" References: Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2009 21:28:51 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="utf-8"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 Subject: Re: [Ltru] Fw: I-D Action:draft-burnett-pronunciation-alphabet-registry-00.txt X-BeenThere: ltru@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Language Tag Registry Update working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 04:29:15 -0000 Didn't notice this thread until now, as I had kind of stopped watching for LTRU traffic. "Phillips, Addison" wrote: > Actually, I spoke with the authors (they represent the W3C SSML > [Speech Synthesis Markup Language] Working Group) last month at W3C > TPAC in Santa Clara. The problem they are trying to solve looks > superficially like a job for language tags and my first advice to them > was to consider registration of subtags, use of language tags, or > creation of an extension. However they had reasons to seek a separate > registry which didn't seem unreasonable to me at the time. > > The main thing is that pronunciation schemes tend to be vendor > specific and are not necessarily transcriptions or, in fact, even > useful outside the speech synthesis process. It seems unlikely to me > that the language subtag registry would take in a wide variety of > these things, especially the vendor-specific variations. So of course I am left to wonder why the BCP 47 extension mechanism wouldn't have been just a perfect solution: cmn-p-pinyin-2001 yue-p-jyutping ja-p-jeita etc. The SSML WG could still develop and maintain their own registry, independent of the LSR, but subject to the constraints in RFC 5646, Section 3.7, which are pretty reasonable. The WG already seems to have most of the necessary concepts and infrastructure. I'd be interested to know what part of "creation of an extension" didn't meet their needs. > I am in receipt of a request to discuss this at today's W3C > Internationalization WG call, a non-IETF organization may (or may not) > discourage this or at least look further into it. And I'd be interested to know how that turned out. -- Doug Ewell | Thornton, Colorado, USA | http://www.ewellic.org RFC 5645, 4645, UTN #14 | ietf-languages @ http://is.gd/2kf0s ­