From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Fri Feb  1 01:12:25 2002
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Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2002 13:42:13 +1030
From: Peter Pham <ppham@SPRI.Levels.UniSA.Edu.Au>
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Subject: Need help
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Hi all
I am looking for the following reference material:

A.F Veinott Jr. "Markov decision chains." eds. G.B Dantzig and
B.C Eaves, MAA Studies in Optimization, 10:124-159, 1974

Anyone know about this and could give some hint of where to get this.

Thank you very much.

--
Best Regards.

Peter Phuc Pham
==========================================
The University of South Australia
Institute for Telecommunications Research
Mawson Lakes Campus SA5095
Office: 08-83023869
Email : ppham@spri.levels.unisa.edu.au
WWW   : http://www.itr.unisa.edu.au/~ppham
==========================================



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<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
Hi all
<br>I&nbsp;am looking for the following reference material:
<p>A.F&nbsp;Veinott Jr. "Markov decision chains." eds. G.B&nbsp;Dantzig
and B.C&nbsp;Eaves, <i>MAA Studies in Optimization,</i> 10:124-159, 1974
<p>Anyone know about this and could give some hint of where to get this.
<p>Thank you very much.
<pre>--&nbsp;
Best Regards.

Peter Phuc Pham
==========================================
The University of South Australia
Institute for Telecommunications Research
Mawson Lakes Campus SA5095
Office: 08-83023869
Email : ppham@spri.levels.unisa.edu.au
WWW&nbsp;&nbsp; : <A HREF="http://www.itr.unisa.edu.au/~ppham">http://www.itr.unisa.edu.au/~ppham</A>
==========================================</pre>
&nbsp;</html>

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From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Fri Feb  1 06:04:26 2002
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Hei colleagues,
Anybody with hot staff on "Topology discovery mechanisms in large scale 
Ad-hoc Networks"?, Just give me a hint for reference.
It appears there is no much in this area ...
Thanks in advance,
Willy



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Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 14:57:58 -0500
From: Yuguang Fang <fang@ece.ufl.edu>
To: Yuguang Fang <fang@ece.ufl.edu>
Cc: "Professor Mohammad S. Obaidat" <obaidat@monmouth.edu>
Subject: SCS SPECTS'2002 paper submission deadline extended: 2/28/2002
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New Submission Deadline: February 28, 2002
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
(We apologize for the inconvenience this message may cause if 
you receive multiple copies) 

Due to numerous requests, the conference organizing committee has 
decided to extend the paper submission deadline to 
February 28, 2002. 

Call For Papers

2002 International Symposium on Performance Evaluation of Computer and
Telecommunication Systems
SPECTS 2002


July 14-19, 2002
U. S. Grant Hotel
San Diego, California, USA

http://www.scs.org/confernc/spects02/


This annual international conference is a forum for professionals
involved in performance evaluation of computer and telecommunication
systems. Evaluation of computer systems and networks is needed at every
stage in the life cycle of the product including design, manufacturing,
sales/purchase, use, upgrade, tuning, etc. The discipline of performance
evaluation has progressed rapidly in the past decade, and it has now
begun to approach maturity. Significant progress has been made in
analytic modeling, simulation, and measurement approaches for
performance evaluation of computer and telecommunication systems.

Topics of interest include, but are not limited to:

Networking and Telecommunication Systems
- Internet Technology
- Quality of Service (QoS)
- DiffServ/IntServ
- TCP
- Unicast and Multicast Routing
- High-Speed Networking
- ATM
- Optical Networks
- Switching Techniques
- Teletraffic
- Satellite Systems and Networks
- Wireless Systems
- UMTS/IMT-2000
- Mobile Networks/Computing
- Multimedia Systems
- Multimedia Communications
- Adaptive Communications
- Network Protocols
- Network Management and Control
- Network Capacity Planning
- Network Architecture Evaluation
- Service and QoS Pricing
- Security and Authentication
- World Wide Web (WWW) Technology
- Electronic Commerce


Computer Systems
- Client/Server
- Microprocessors/Microcomputers
- Memory Systems
- Interconnection Networks
- Software Performance
- Software Evaluation and Testing
- Hardware and Software Monitors
- High-Performance Computing
- Workload and Traffic Characterization
- Scientific Computing Algorithms
- High Performance I/O
- Reconfigurable Computing
-Real-time Systems
- Parallel and Distributed Computing
- Distributed Systems and Agents
- Massively Parallel Systems
- Cluster Computing
- Parallel Algorithms and Languages
- Scheduling Schemes


Tools, Methodologies and Applications
- Parallel and Distributed Simulation
- Verification and Validation
- Performance Tools and Methodologies
- Neural Networks and Fuzzy Logic Applications to High Performance
  Computing/Networking
- Performance Optimization
- Queueing Systems and Networks
- Scalability Studies
- Integrated Modeling and Measurement
- On-Line Performance Adaptation and Tuning
- Process Algebra-Based Models
- Performance Bounds
- Integrated Design and Performance
- New Performance Models
- Mathematical Aspects of Performance
- New Performability Schemes and Models
- Case Studies


General Chair
Mohammad S. Obaidat
Dept. of Computer Science, Monmouth University
W. Long Branch, NJ 07764, USA
Tel +1-732-571-4482
Fax +1-732-263-5202
E-mail: obaidat@monmouth.edu


Senior Program Chair
Franco Davoli
DIST-University of Genoa
Via Opera Pia 13, I-16145 Genoa, Italy
Tel +39-010-353-2732
Fax +39-010-353-2154
E-Mail: franco@dist.unige.it

Program Co-Chairs
Ibrahim Onyuksel
Dept. of Computer Sciences, N. Illinois Univ., USA
E-mail: onyuksel@cs.niu.edu

Raffaele Bolla
DIST-University of Genoa
Via Opera Pia 13, I-16145 Genoa, Italy
E-mail: lelus@dist.unige.it

Vice Program Chair
Erina Ferro  
CNUCE, Institute of National Research Council (C.N.R.)
C.N.R. Pisa Research Area, Building B, Room 73        
Via G. Moruzzi, 1                                     
56124 Pisa, Italy   
E-mail: erina.ferro@cnuce.cnr.it

Industrial Track Chair
J. Fox, Motorola Inc., UK
E-mail: fox.ijcs@btinternet.com

Publicity Chair
Yuguang (Michael) Fang, University of Florida, USA, E-mail: fang@ece.ufl.edu

Web Master:
Daniel Lee, University of Southern California, E-mail: dclee@rcf-fs.usc.edu


Technical Program Committee

Jagan  P. Agrawal, University of Missouri - Kansas City, USA
Ian Akyildiz, Georgia Tech., USA
M. Atiquzzaman, University of Oklahoma, USA
Harmen R. van As, Vienna University of Technology, Austria
Louis G. Birta, University of Ottawa, Canada
Noureddine Boudriga, University of Tunis, Tunisia
Hasan Cam, Arizona State University, USA
Andrew Campbell, Columbia University, USA
Fabio M. Chiussi, Bell Laboratories, Lucent Technologies, USA
Hassan B. Diab, American University of Beirut, Lebanon
Gabor Fodor, Ericsson Radio Systems, Sweden
John Fox, Motorola, UK
Luigi Fratta, Politecnico di Milano, Italy
Aura Ganz, University of Massachusetts, USA
Erol Gelenbe, University of Central Florida, USA
Mario Gerla, UCLA, USA
Omar Hammami, ENSTA, France
Jarmo Harju, Tampere University of Technology, Finland
Herman Hughes, Michigan State University, USA
Andrzej Jajszczyk, University of Mining and Metallurgy, Poland
Ingemar Kaj, Uppsala University, Sweden
Helen Karatza, Aristotle University of Thessalonica, Greece
Demetrios Kazakos, University of Louisiana, USA	
Ulrich Killat, Tech Univ. of Hamburg, Germany
Tag Gon Kim, KAIST, Korea
Belka Kraimeche, Stevens Institute of Technology, USA
Paul J. Kuehn, University of Stuttgart, Germany
Kevin Kwiat, Air Force Research Laboratory, USA
Veronica Lagrange M. Reis, Compaq Computers Corp., USA
Axel Lehmann, Universität der Bundeswehr München, Germany
Daniel C. Lee, USC, USA
Mike T. Liu, Ohio State University, USA
Imad Mahgoub, Florida Atlantic University, USA
Sam Makki, Queensland University of Technology, Australia
Krzysztof Malinowski, Warsaw Technical University, Poland
Jose L. Marzo, Universitat de Girona, Spain
Xiannong Meng, Bucknell University, USA 
Hussein Mouftah, Queen's University, Canada
M. Ould-Khaoua, University of Glasgow, UK
Sergio Palazzo, Università di Catania, Italy
Georgios I. Papadimitriou, Aristotle University, Greece
Achille Pattavina, Politecnico di Milano, Italy
Krzysztof Pawlikowski, University of Canterbury, New Zealand
Steven Pink, University of Arizona, USA
George Polyzos, AUEB, Greece
Ramon Puigjaner, Universitat de les Illes Balears, Spain 
Kaliappa Ravindran, CUNY, USA
Gian Paolo Rossi, Università di Milano, Italy
Izhak Rubin, UCLA, USA
Donald Schilling, CUNY, USA
Jens B. Schmitt, TU Darmstadt, Germany
C. Tim Spracklen, Aberdeen University, UK
Tatsuya Suda, UCI, USA
Iwao Toda, Fujutsu Laboratories Ltd., Japan
Phuoc Tran-Gia, University of Wuerzburg, Germany
Kenneth S. Vastola, Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, USA
Manuel Villen-Altamirano, Telefonica, Spain
Bernd E. Wolfinger, Hamburg University, Germany
Michele Zorzi, Università di Ferrara, Italy

International Liaisons
B. Sadoun, Al-Balqa' Applied University, Jordan
Bsadoun@go.com.jo
M. Sawan, Montreal Poly, Canada
Sawan@vlsi.polymtl.ca
N. Tchamov, Tampere Univ. of Technology, Finland
Nikolay@cs.tut.fi

Publicity Committee:
Hideki Tode, Osaka Univ., Japan, E-mail: Tode@ise.eng.osaka-u.ac.jp
Nusseirat, Al-Isra University, Jordan, E-mail: anuseirat@firstnet.com.jo

Paper Submission
Submit your complete papers electronically to: 

http://scs.proceedingscentral.com/

All required instructions will be posted on this web site. Submissions 
should not exceed 25 double-spaced, 8.5x11 inch pages (including figures, 
tables, and references) in 10-12 point font. Include five to ten keywords, 
complete postal and e-mail addresses, and fax and phone numbers of 
corresponding author. If you have difficulty in electronic submission, 
contact the Web Master, Program Chairs or the Conference Coordinator, 
Mr. Steve Branch, The Society for Modeling and Simulation International, 
4838 Ronson Court, Suite L, San Diego, CA  92111, USA, Tel 858-277-3888, 
Fax 858-277-3930, E-mail sbranch@scs.org sbranch@scs.org.

Extended versions of accepted papers in SPECTS 2002 will be considered for 
possible publication in scholarly journals. Proposals for tutorials, special 
and panel sessions should be sent to the Conference Senior Program Chair. 
Proposals for industrial sessions should be submitted to the Industrial 
Track Chair.

For more information regarding presentations or exhibitions at SPECTS 2002 
contact: Mr. Steve Branch at the address shown above.

Deadlines
Submission of Papers:  Extended to February 28, 2002. 
Notification of Acceptance - April 22, 2002
Final Camera-Ready Submission - May 22, 2002

Sponsored by The Society for Modeling and Simulation International.





-- 
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
Yuguang "Michael" Fang, Ph.D 
Assistant Professor 
Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering
University of Florida 
435 Engineering Building, P.O.Box 116130
Gainesville, FL 32611
Tel: (352) 846-3043, Fax: (352) 392-0044
Email: fang@ece.ufl.edu, http://www.fang.ece.ufl.edu 
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%


From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Fri Feb  1 17:31:10 2002
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Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2002 15:45:46 -0500
To: ogier@erg.sri.com
From: Joe Macker <macker@itd.nrl.navy.mil>
Subject: Re: Some follow-up OLSR/AODV results 
Cc: manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil
In-Reply-To: <200202012010.MAA25819@pit.erg.sri.com>
References: <Your message of "Thu, 31 Jan 2002 19:21:16 EST." <5.0.1.4.2.20020131174924.02e6e100@pop.itd.nrl.navy.mil>
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At 12:10 PM 2/1/2002 -0800, ogier@erg.sri.com wrote:

>Joe,
>
>> >
>> >in the sendPacket() function, which explained the bug. I changed the line to
>> >
>> >    ch->size() = IP_HDR_LEN + p->datalen();
>> >
>> >which seemed to fix the bug.  Am I missing something?
>> 
>> Richard:
>> Good catch, I also believe this a bug.  I checked prototype olsrv4 ns2 code we developed 
>> here and it does not have th is bug (it was independently developed from the INRIA code).
>
>> I will add your fix and doublecheck my previous snapshot scenarios with both pieces of code.  
>
>I guess the Aalborg study posted a few days ago also needs to be redone.

Yes, I just redid points for 100 nodes, 20 sources, 0 motion with your fix.
Early results (with your fix) still show close to 100% delivery for 2, 4, 6 packets/sec loads.

Perhaps that ported Linux code version your are using is breaking down at 100 nodes. 
The 2 other pieces of source code I am using seem not to have the same effect of 65% delivery bounding.

We can take more of this discussion off-line, but some of it has been useful because the results were presented at the WG meeting. Just the scientific process in action.
-joe

>We are also running simulations for OLSR and TBRPF in ns-2.1b8.
>Now that we have ns-2 code for OLSR from INRIA, I am perfectly
>happy using this code and disregarding the results from our
>port of the OLSR implementation code to ns-2.
>Even though I believe those results are valid (and that we ported
>the code correctly), INRIA stated that the implementation code was
>not intended for simulations (after I presented our results in SLC).
>It is understandable that the code may not have been optimized
>(or even tested) for networks of 100 nodes.




From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Fri Feb  1 18:09:51 2002
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To: Joe Macker <macker@itd.nrl.navy.mil>
cc: ogier@erg.sri.com, manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil
Reply-To: ogier@erg.sri.com
From: ogier@erg.sri.com
Subject: Re: Some follow-up OLSR/AODV results 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 31 Jan 2002 19:21:16 EST."
             <5.0.1.4.2.20020131174924.02e6e100@pop.itd.nrl.navy.mil> 
Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2002 12:10:41 -0800
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Joe,

> >
> >in the sendPacket() function, which explained the bug. I changed the line to
> >
> >    ch->size() = IP_HDR_LEN + p->datalen();
> >
> >which seemed to fix the bug.  Am I missing something?
> 
> Richard:
> Good catch, I also believe this a bug.  I checked prototype olsrv4 ns2 code we developed 
> here and it does not have th is bug (it was independently developed from the INRIA code).

> I will add your fix and doublecheck my previous snapshot scenarios with both pieces of code.  

I guess the Aalborg study posted a few days ago also needs to be redone.

We are also running simulations for OLSR and TBRPF in ns-2.1b8.
Now that we have ns-2 code for OLSR from INRIA, I am perfectly
happy using this code and disregarding the results from our
port of the OLSR implementation code to ns-2.
Even though I believe those results are valid (and that we ported
the code correctly), INRIA stated that the implementation code was
not intended for simulations (after I presented our results in SLC).
It is understandable that the code may not have been optimized
(or even tested) for networks of 100 nodes.


-----------------------
Richard Ogier
Sr. Research Engineer
SRI International
333 Ravenswood Ave.
Menlo Park, CA 94025
Tel: 650-859-4216
Fax: 650-859-4812
Email: ogier@erg.sri.com
------------------------



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Subject: CFP: Modeling, Analysis, and Simulation of Wireless LANs and Mobile Ad Hoc Networks and QoS Issues
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Call for Papers 

Invited Session Title: Modeling, Analysis, and Simulation of Wireless
LANs and Mobile Ad Hoc Networks and QoS Issues

Invited Session in the 6th World Multi-Conference on Systemics, 
Cybernetics and Informatics, (SCI 2002) Orlando, Florida, USA, July 14 
-18, 2002


Topics of Interest
	
Wireless LANs & Mobile Ad Hoc Networks (not limited to)

	Simulation, Modeling and performance evaluation of Wireless 
        LANs, such as IEEE 802.11, HIPERLAN, and Ad hoc Networks.
	Quality-of-service issues in Wireless LANs (IEEE 802.11e, 
        HIPERLAN/2, etc.) and Ad Hoc Networks.
	Power Consumption issues
	Higher data rates
	3G/4G-WLAN
	Differentiated Services for Wireless LANs
	Co-existence of the IEEE 802.11 and 802.15
	Resource Management 
	Analytical methods.

Deadlines

Submission of Extended Abstracts: February 05, 2002
Notification of Acceptance: March 05, 2002
Camera Ready Copies:  April 03, 2002

Session Co-Organizers/co-chairs

Dr. Yang Xiao, Micro Linear, USA
Dr. Bin Wang, Wright State University, USA

Instructions For Submission

Submission should be in the form of extended abstracts up to 4 pages 
long. All submitted contributions will be subject to peer review on the

basis of technical correctness, quality, relevance, originality, 
significance, and clarity.  Abstracts should be in MS Word, PDF or PS 
format. Submissions should be sent to the session's co-organizers. 
Successful submissions will be asked to submit a full paper. Full 
papers must be formatted according to IEEE-CS guidelines

Electronic Submission:

Dr. Yang Xiao: xiao.yang@microlinear.com
Dr. Bin Wang: bwang@cs.wright.edu

For more details check at http://www.iiis.org/sci2002/
last updated 12/15/01



__________________________________________________
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From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Mon Feb  4 08:31:20 2002
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Hi,

I want to know which are the latest papers which performs the Simulation Based Comparison of Ad Hoc routing Protocols or the Survey of the Ad Hoc Routing Protocols. 

Also, I want to know which are the latest protocols which have been considered by the MANETs for the standardization or for study.

Kindly provide me this information.

Thankyou.

Mukul Shukla.
mukul.s@mailcity.com




From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Mon Feb  4 12:27:23 2002
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Richard,

Thanks for looking at our simulation code for OLSR in detail. You are
correct in pointing out the bug in the simulation code, and your proposed
solution seems to solve the problem.

Our belated reply is due to the fact that we wanted to investigate the
impact of the bug before replying.

We have been running a set of tests, similar to those presented earlier by
Joe (http://protean.itd.nrl.navy.mil/manet/olsrstatic.pdf) of the
simulation code "with the bug" and "without the bug". 

Exactly the same scenarios being used, our observations basically amount
to the following:

	- the reported overhead (in bytes/sec) indeed is about 50% larger
	  with the "bugfix"

	- the number of control packets is roughly the same (the
	  differences being very small and due to the randomness
	  introduced by the jitter)

	- more importantly: the delivery ratio is unaffected by the
	  change. I.e. the same amount of packets are being delivered.

So while we acknowledge that there indeed is a bug, the impacts seems to
be only related to the rapported overhead, not to the functioning of the
routing protocol.

Thanks again for pointing out the bug in the code. 

--thomas



> I think I found a bug in that code regarding packet size. (I don't know
> whether the same bug is in Joe's code or in the code used for
> simulations that others have done.)
> When running simulations with that code, I noticed in the trace file
> that every OLSR packet has length 20 bytes, including the 20-byte IP
> header (i.e., ns-2  considers each OLSR message to have zero length not
> including the IP header).
> 
> So I looked in the file ns-olsragent.cc and noticed the line
>
>    ch->size() = IP_HDR_LEN;
>
> in the sendPacket() function, which explained the bug. I changed the
> line to
>   ch->size() = IP_HDR_LEN + p->datalen();
>
> which seemed to fix the bug.  Am I missing something?
>
> Richard


-- 

-------------------------------------------
  Thomas Heide Clausen
  Civilingeniør i Datateknik (cand.polyt)
  M.Sc in Computer Engineering

  E-Mail: T.Clausen@computer.org
  WWW:    http://www.cs.auc.dk/~voop
-------------------------------------------








From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Mon Feb  4 12:31:36 2002
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Well the necessity of RTS/CTS comes across because of the hidden terminal
problem (in ad-hoc mode).......

-Vikram


> Hello,
> 
> > I had a couple of questions about multirate support of IEEE 802.11. I
> > will be gratefuil if someone can provide pointers etc...
> > 
> > (*) I know that the PHY preamble and headers are all sent at a basic rate
> > (1Mbps?). Is the RTS/CTS exchange also done at the basic rate ?
> > 
> > (*)....if not then how do other overhearing nodes latch onto the
> > RTS/CTS.. ?
> 
> Yes, they are. (or maybe at 2 Mbps, I can't remember exactly)
> But as I know the some manufacturers sometimes break the standard, use
> short preambles, and higher RTS/CTS bitrates to reduce the overhead,
> which is really high in the basic case. 
> In that case older cards can't communicate, because they can't decode
> the CCK "modulation".
> Carrier detection still works in this case.
> 
> With RTS/CTS mechanism the measured throughput between two nodes
> communicating at 11Mbps is smaller by 20% than without RTS/CTS (1500byte
> MTU).
> Is there any simulation or measurement results that proove the necessity
> of RTS/CTS ?
> 
> Best regards,
> Ferenc
> 

-- 

Department of ECE, Rice University | 713 348 3786 (O)| 713 664 5650(H)
WWW: http://www.ece.rice.edu/~kanodia 



From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Mon Feb  4 22:56:04 2002
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Hi All,


Can anyone please clarify if OLSR has been simulated for Ad hoc n/w in GloMoSim as yet.

Vikas 



From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Tue Feb  5 00:21:59 2002
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Subject: Schemes for the Allocation of IP Addresses for Ad Noc Nodes
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Hi there,

Most of the routing schemes proposed for Ad Hoc networks seem to assume an
IP address has already been allocated to each Ad Hoc node by some
unspecified means.  I am interested in potential schemes that enable the
allocation / auto-configuration of IP addresses for Ad Hoc nodes (with a
particular interest in distributed schemes).

Currently I have found info on the following schemes :

1.  IP Address Autoconfiguration for Ad Hoc Networks, proposed by Manet
Working Group
     (draft-ietf-manet-autoconf-01.txt,  Authors: Perkins, Belding-Royer et
al)

Area(s) of interest / requiring further development :
- From Section 2.  Applicability Statement : "The mechanisms described in
this document do not guarantee uniqueness in disconnected networks.  If a
network is disconnected, the process for Duplicate Address Detection (DAD)
would need to be performed again when the partition heals.  This document
does not specify any method for detecting when the partition heals, nor any
procedure by which such detection would cause new attempts at DAD.  Any
such specification would have to ensure that network healing is not
accompanied by a broadcast storm of DAD messages."


2.  Standard DHCP

Area(s) of interest / requiring further development :
- requires development of DHCP Server / Relay election algorithm(s)
- once DHCP server(s) / relay(s) have been elected, this model is really
hierarchical as opposed to flat / fully distributed (could be advantageous
/ disadvantageous depending on the scale / topology of the network etc.)


I am interested in comments or information from anyone regarding any of the
following :

- further information related to either of the above schemes
- solutions to the "Area(s) of interest / requiring further development"
for either of the above schemes
- reasons why either of the above schemes may not be feasible / suitable
for certain types or topologies of Ad Hoc Networks
- details of (and sources of information for) other schemes that could be
used for the allocation of IP addresses for Ad Hoc nodes (i.e. specifically
for Ad Hoc networks, and preferably fully distributed)


Thanks.

- Piers.







From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Tue Feb  5 05:55:07 2002
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From: Kilian Weniger <weniger@tm.uka.de>
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cc: <manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil>
Subject: Re: Schemes for the Allocation of IP Addresses for Ad Noc Nodes
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Hello Piers,

This question already arose on the list about 2 weeks ago, but
unfortunately there were only a few replies on that. In my
opinion autoconfiguration in ad hoc networks is essential and should be
more in discussion on the list.

In our distributed approach, we modified the IPv6 Stateless Address
Autoconfiguration protocol to work in potentially large ad hoc networks.
Therefore, an hierarchical address space is build up. The protocol
overhead during the Duplicate Address Detection is limited and is not
directly dependend on the network size anymore (as it is in
draft-ietf-manet-autoconf-01). Subsequently, we claim to achieve an
improved scalability. Furthermore, unique addresses are also guaranteed in the
case that two independently configured networks merge.

The paper is called "IPv6 Stateless Address Autoconfiguration in large
mobile ad hoc networks".
You can download the paper from our IPonAir-project homepage:

  http://www.iponair.de/publications/Weniger-EuroWireless02.pdf



Kilian Weniger



On Mon, 4 Feb 2002 pohanlon@hns.com wrote:

> Hi there,
>
> Most of the routing schemes proposed for Ad Hoc networks seem to assume an
> IP address has already been allocated to each Ad Hoc node by some
> unspecified means.  I am interested in potential schemes that enable the
> allocation / auto-configuration of IP addresses for Ad Hoc nodes (with a
> particular interest in distributed schemes).
>
> Currently I have found info on the following schemes :
>
> 1.  IP Address Autoconfiguration for Ad Hoc Networks, proposed by Manet
> Working Group
>      (draft-ietf-manet-autoconf-01.txt,  Authors: Perkins, Belding-Royer et
> al)
>
> Area(s) of interest / requiring further development :
> - From Section 2.  Applicability Statement : "The mechanisms described in
> this document do not guarantee uniqueness in disconnected networks.  If a
> network is disconnected, the process for Duplicate Address Detection (DAD)
> would need to be performed again when the partition heals.  This document
> does not specify any method for detecting when the partition heals, nor any
> procedure by which such detection would cause new attempts at DAD.  Any
> such specification would have to ensure that network healing is not
> accompanied by a broadcast storm of DAD messages."
>
>
> 2.  Standard DHCP
>
> Area(s) of interest / requiring further development :
> - requires development of DHCP Server / Relay election algorithm(s)
> - once DHCP server(s) / relay(s) have been elected, this model is really
> hierarchical as opposed to flat / fully distributed (could be advantageous
> / disadvantageous depending on the scale / topology of the network etc.)
>
>
> I am interested in comments or information from anyone regarding any of the
> following :
>
> - further information related to either of the above schemes
> - solutions to the "Area(s) of interest / requiring further development"
> for either of the above schemes
> - reasons why either of the above schemes may not be feasible / suitable
> for certain types or topologies of Ad Hoc Networks
> - details of (and sources of information for) other schemes that could be
> used for the allocation of IP addresses for Ad Hoc nodes (i.e. specifically
> for Ad Hoc networks, and preferably fully distributed)
>
>
> Thanks.
>
> - Piers.
>
>
>
>
>

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dipl.-Ing. Kilian Weniger           phone: (+49)(0)721-608 6415
Institute of Telematics             fax:   (+49)(0)721-388097
Department of Computer Science      email: weniger@tm.uni-karlsruhe.de
University of Karlsruhe 	    homepage: http://www.tm.uka.de/~weniger/
D-76128 Karlsruhe





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Hi Piers,

we have developped a distributed address allocation scheme, which is
called 'Agent Based Addressing'. I will pesent an performance evaluation
in AdHoc 2002, Paris.

Our scheme also considers the splitting and joining of several ad-hoc
networks.

We are preparing a paper in which the scheme is described.


Regards
Mesut Günes


###-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
###Von: owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil 
###[mailto:owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil] Im Auftrag von pohanlon@hns.com
###Gesendet: Dienstag, 5. Februar 2002 04:25
###An: manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil
###Betreff: Schemes for the Allocation of IP Addresses for Ad Noc Nodes
###
###
###Hi there,
###
###Most of the routing schemes proposed for Ad Hoc networks 
###seem to assume an IP address has already been allocated to 
###each Ad Hoc node by some unspecified means.  I am interested 
###in potential schemes that enable the allocation / 
###auto-configuration of IP addresses for Ad Hoc nodes (with a 
###particular interest in distributed schemes).
###
###Currently I have found info on the following schemes :
###
###1.  IP Address Autoconfiguration for Ad Hoc Networks, 
###proposed by Manet Working Group
###     (draft-ietf-manet-autoconf-01.txt,  Authors: Perkins, 
###Belding-Royer et
###al)
###
###Area(s) of interest / requiring further development :
###- From Section 2.  Applicability Statement : "The mechanisms 
###described in this document do not guarantee uniqueness in 
###disconnected networks.  If a network is disconnected, the 
###process for Duplicate Address Detection (DAD) would need to 
###be performed again when the partition heals.  This document 
###does not specify any method for detecting when the partition 
###heals, nor any procedure by which such detection would cause 
###new attempts at DAD.  Any such specification would have to 
###ensure that network healing is not accompanied by a 
###broadcast storm of DAD messages."
###
###
###2.  Standard DHCP
###
###Area(s) of interest / requiring further development :
###- requires development of DHCP Server / Relay election algorithm(s)
###- once DHCP server(s) / relay(s) have been elected, this 
###model is really hierarchical as opposed to flat / fully 
###distributed (could be advantageous / disadvantageous 
###depending on the scale / topology of the network etc.)
###
###
###I am interested in comments or information from anyone 
###regarding any of the following :
###
###- further information related to either of the above schemes
###- solutions to the "Area(s) of interest / requiring further 
###development" for either of the above schemes
###- reasons why either of the above schemes may not be 
###feasible / suitable for certain types or topologies of Ad 
###Hoc Networks
###- details of (and sources of information for) other schemes 
###that could be used for the allocation of IP addresses for Ad 
###Hoc nodes (i.e. specifically for Ad Hoc networks, and 
###preferably fully distributed)
###
###
###Thanks.
###
###- Piers.
###
###
###
###
###



From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Tue Feb  5 09:22:57 2002
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From: Bernardo Antunes Maciel Villela <bernardo@gta.ufrj.br>
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Hi all,
I am simulating the ad-hoc routing protocols (DSR, AODV, DSDV) with the
ns-2.1b8a. I am using the extensions made by the MONARCH project. I'd
like to know which is the version of these drafts (DSR, AODV and DSDV)
implemented by MONARCH in NS? 
Does anyone have any version of these algorithms for ns (without bugs) 
more recent than that? 
Is exactly that implementation that everybody is using for simulations? 
Is there a page at Manet that points me to old versions of the drafts?
And for OLSR, which is the good implementation in NS? Which version is
that?
Thanks a lot,
Bernardo.




From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Tue Feb  5 13:55:39 2002
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Subject: AODV IP-address configuration and Internet gatewaying
From: Erik =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Nordstr=F6m?= <erno3431@student.uu.se>
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Hello.

Could someone explain to me why AODV should allow any node with any
IP-address to be a participant in the ad-hoc network (as suggested in
section 7 of the AODV draft)?

To me the idea of subnets is a good thing, and is the principle on wich
IP-routing is based.

Breaking subnetting would complicate interaction with the IP-layer and
the mechanisms behind gatewaying (for connecting the ad-hoc network to
the Internet).

Why do AODV even use IP-addresses if creating subnets is not desirable?
Subnets are sort of the whole idea behind IP, isn't it?


Also, a draft issue:

When using "blacklists" and expanding ring search, should
BLACKLIST_TIMEOUT really be [(TTL_THRESHOLD - TTL_START)/TTL_INCREMENT]
+ 1 + RREQ_RETRIES = 6?

This is clearly _much_ smaller than "standard" BLACKLIST_TIMEOUT which
is RREQ_RETRIES * NET_TRAVERSAL_TIME = 4200.


/Erik Nordström




From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Tue Feb  5 15:12:07 2002
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Hi All,
	I will send out the results today or tomorrow. I am simply looking for a block of time to do it in. I have had hundreds of requests! Please don't send duplicate requests unless you don't get a copy by this Friday.
Cheers,
Ken


From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Tue Feb  5 16:09:55 2002
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Hi,

This is an interesting subject; we had discussion regarding MANET
addressing some time back (see: "Challenges for the MANET addressing
model" beginning 3/26/01 in the MANET archives) but did not get into much
detail in terms of address allocation and duplicate address detection. The
two primary means for IP address assignment in the existing IPv4 Internet
are static configuration and stateful autoconfiguration (i.e., DHCP). IPv6
introduces new mechanisms for stateless address autoconfiguration, but with
a number of issues for MANETs.

Concensus from the addressing discussions last spring seemed to favor
supporting peer-to-peer operation in MANETs regardless of the underlying
mechanisms for address assignment and duplicate address detection. In
particular, at the MANET level IP addresses are treated as node IDs
regardless of any "subnet affiliation" implied. For example, two neighboring
nodes in the MANET with disparate IPv4 address prefixes (e.g. 128.21.1.6/32
and 10.0.2.1/32) should be able to form a link and exchange messages directly
w/o going through an intermediate gateway. (This is also a key enabling
feature for integration with Mobile IP.)

The main point is that nodes are free to move about; sometimes staying
within their "home" MANETs and sometimes wandering into "foreign" MANETs.
Therefore, the protocols need to support continued operation regardless
of the underlying address allocation mechanisms, and the underlying
address allocation mechanisms must provide a flexible framework to
support mobility.

Fred
templin@erg.sri.com


From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Tue Feb  5 19:00:16 2002
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From: "Hao Zhang" <zhanghao@sce.carleton.ca>
To: "MANET LIST" <manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil>
Subject: resource about the power optimization on ad hoc network
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 16:48:34 -0500
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I am working on the study on optimizing the power/energy consumption of
ad-hoc networking. Could someone tell me a link to find some papers or tech
resource on it.  Thanks in advance for your help.




From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Tue Feb  5 20:55:20 2002
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Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 16:01:45 -0800 (PST)
From: Ya Xu <yaxu@isi.edu>
To: Hao Zhang <zhanghao@sce.carleton.ca>
cc: MANET LIST <manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil>
Subject: Re: resource about the power optimization on ad hoc network
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Hao,

You can check Mobicom'2001 where there is a section of 3 papers regarding
energy consumption of ad hoc network.

-Ya

On Tue, 5 Feb 2002, Hao Zhang wrote:

> I am working on the study on optimizing the power/energy consumption of
> ad-hoc networking. Could someone tell me a link to find some papers or tech
> resource on it.  Thanks in advance for your help.
> 
> 



From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Tue Feb  5 23:10:41 2002
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Subject: Question about simulation mobility with ns-2
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 21:25:26 -0500
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I need some help on ns-2 mobility simulations.

Sample files in ns-2 usually select a destination and move a node with a
certain speed towards that postion.

What should I do if I want to simulate wrappround movement? (In other words,
if node moves to the edge of the map, how to reset its position to the other
side?) Thanks!



From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Tue Feb  5 23:14:51 2002
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From: Rajesh Bhairampally <rajesh@utdallas.edu>
To: Hao Zhang <zhanghao@sce.carleton.ca>
Cc: MANET LIST <manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil>
Subject: Re: resource about the power optimization on ad hoc network
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Hi,

I recently submitted a paper to mobihoc on the idea of energy
complexity. Energy complexity - like time complexity of an algorithm - is
a theory to analytically compute minimum energy consumption of ad hoc
network protocol. I demonstrated how one can use this theory to optimize
different protocol strategies to reduce energy consumption of a protocol.

This paper is available on my webpage at
http://www.utdallas.edu/~rajesh/resume/mobihoc02.pdf
Currently i am working on an improved model of the same idea. I'll let you
know once it is ready.

sincerely,
raesh


On Tue, 5 Feb 2002, Hao Zhang wrote:

> I am working on the study on optimizing the power/energy consumption of
> ad-hoc networking. Could someone tell me a link to find some papers or tech
> resource on it.  Thanks in advance for your help.
> 
> 
> 

Rajesh

===============================================================================

Rajesh Bhairampally
Graduate Research Assistant
Scalable Network Engineering Techniques Lab (NET Lab)
University of Texas at Dallas
Richardson, TX 75080


Rajesh@utdallas.edu
http://www.utdallas.edu/~rajesh
===============================================================================




From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Tue Feb  5 23:53:02 2002
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I suppose all 802.11-based wireless LAN products on
the market today support DCF, but I'm not aware of any
released product that supports PCF.

Any comment?

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!
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From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Wed Feb  6 01:45:03 2002
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From: Rajesh Bhairampally <rajesh@utdallas.edu>
To: Brahim BENSAOU <brahim@cs.ust.hk>
Cc: MANET LIST <manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil>
Subject: Re: resource about the power optimization on ad hoc network
In-Reply-To: <3C60A416.2417AE52@cs.ust.hk>
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I am terribly sorry! i forgot about it! I'll put the link down
immediately. My sincere apologies.

rajesh

On Wed, 6 Feb 2002, Brahim BENSAOU wrote:

> Humm ...
> 
> I thought MobiHOC'02  was using double blind reviewing 
> thus paper submissions were supposed to be "confidential" 
> or as confidential as possible?!!
> 
> - B.
> 
> 
> Rajesh Bhairampally wrote:
> > 
> > Hi,
> > 
> > I recently submitted a paper to mobihoc on the idea of energy
> > complexity. Energy complexity - like time complexity of an algorithm - is
> > a theory to analytically compute minimum energy consumption of ad hoc
> > network protocol. I demonstrated how one can use this theory to optimize
> > different protocol strategies to reduce energy consumption of a protocol.
> > 
> > This paper is available on my webpage at
> > http://www.utdallas.edu/~rajesh/resume/mobihoc02.pdf
> > Currently i am working on an improved model of the same idea. I'll let you
> > know once it is ready.
> > 
> > sincerely,
> > raesh
> > 
> > On Tue, 5 Feb 2002, Hao Zhang wrote:
> > 
> > > I am working on the study on optimizing the power/energy consumption of
> > > ad-hoc networking. Could someone tell me a link to find some papers or tech
> > > resource on it.  Thanks in advance for your help.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > 
> > Rajesh
> > 
> > ===============================================================================
> > 
> > Rajesh Bhairampally
> > Graduate Research Assistant
> > Scalable Network Engineering Techniques Lab (NET Lab)
> > University of Texas at Dallas
> > Richardson, TX 75080
> > 
> > Rajesh@utdallas.edu
> > http://www.utdallas.edu/~rajesh
> > ===============================================================================
> 
> -- 
> Brahim Bensaou             | Computer Science Department.
> Assistant Professor        | Hong Kong University of Science &
> Technology
> brahim@cs.ust.hk           | Clear Water Bay, Kowloon, Hong Kong.
> http://www.cs.ust.hk/~csbb | Ph: +852 23587014, Fax: +852 23581477
> 

Rajesh

===============================================================================

Rajesh Bhairampally
Graduate Research Assistant
Scalable Network Engineering Techniques Lab (NET Lab)
University of Texas at Dallas
Richardson, TX 75080


Rajesh@utdallas.edu
http://www.utdallas.edu/~rajesh
===============================================================================




From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Wed Feb  6 03:10:41 2002
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Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 22:11:50 -0800 (PST)
From: Xiaoyan Hong <hxy@cs.ucla.edu>
To: vikas p verma <vvicky72@rediffmail.com>
cc: Xiaoyan Hong <hxy@cs.ucla.edu>, <manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil>
Subject: Re: OLSR in GloMoSim
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Hi, Vikas,

OLSR has been simulated in GloMoSim by UCLA. An ICC 2002 paper:
"Scalable Ad Hoc Routing in Large, Dense Wireless
Networks Using  Clustering and Landmarks" contains some simulation
results.

Best,

Xiaoyan

On 5 Feb 2002, vikas p verma wrote:

>
> Hi All,
>
>
> Can anyone please clarify if OLSR has been simulated for Ad hoc n/w in
GloMoSim as yet.
>
> Vikas
>



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Recently I have begun studying the area of Ad hoc networks and I am
interested in concentrating on routing protocols / topology discovery -
what are the main areas of current research or existing problems ?

Any comments?

Susan



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Hi all,

I am new to this mailing list. I want to simulate MANET Routing Protocols using GloMoSim. I want to know if somebody has simulated the TORA and OLSR in glomosim.

Please somebody also tell me which are the recent papers which studies the simulation based comparisom of rcent MANET routing.

Please help me.

Thankyou all.

mukul shukla
mukul.s@mailcity.com




From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Wed Feb  6 07:31:45 2002
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To: Xiaoyan Hong <hxy@cs.ucla.edu>
CC: vikas p verma <vvicky72@rediffmail.com>, manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil
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Hi Xiaoyan

Is this paper available from anywhere else than the proceedings, as I
would like to read it?

Regards,
Gitte Hansen
 
Xiaoyan Hong wrote:
> 
> Hi, Vikas,
> 
> OLSR has been simulated in GloMoSim by UCLA. An ICC 2002 paper:
> "Scalable Ad Hoc Routing in Large, Dense Wireless
> Networks Using  Clustering and Landmarks" contains some simulation
> results.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Xiaoyan
> 
> On 5 Feb 2002, vikas p verma wrote:
> 
> >
> > Hi All,
> >
> >
> > Can anyone please clarify if OLSR has been simulated for Ad hoc n/w in
> GloMoSim as yet.
> >
> > Vikas
> >


From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Wed Feb  6 07:57:32 2002
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To: Bernardo Antunes Maciel Villela <bernardo@gta.ufrj.br>
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Subject: Re: ns draft's version used for routing protocols
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Hi Bernardo,

On Tue, 5 Feb 2002, Bernardo Antunes Maciel Villela wrote:

> Hi all,

<SNIP>

> Is there a page at Manet that points me to old versions of the drafts?

In general, older ietf-drafts seems to be archived in several places. One
of them is here: http://www.watersprings.org/pub/id/

> And for OLSR, which is the good implementation in NS? Which version is
> that?

Currently, we have version 3 of the OLSR draft implemented and tested in
ns-2.1b7. It may be downloaded from the OLSR www-page: http://hipercom.inria.fr/olsr

-- 

-------------------------------------------
  Thomas Heide Clausen
  Civilingeniør i Datateknik (cand.polyt)
  M.Sc in Computer Engineering

  E-Mail: T.Clausen@computer.org
  WWW:    http://www.cs.auc.dk/~voop
-------------------------------------------



From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Wed Feb  6 10:39:50 2002
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Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 08:15:16 -0500
To: manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil
From: Panos Papadimitratos <papadp@ece.cornell.edu>
Subject: NIST Manet Opnet models & 802.11 
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Dear All,

I have the following problem with the 802.11 Opnet model -- as used for the 
above-mentioned DSR and AODV models:

A change of the parameter values (wireless LAN attributes) makes all 
transmissions to fail.
For example, by setting the rate to 2Mbps (default: 1Mbps) not a single 
packet is delivered!
Other changes cause the same or similar problems as well. Unfortunately, a 
selection of settings according to the IEEE standard does not do the trick 
either.

Is this one of the "minor" bugs that were discussed earlier (Dec/01) in the 
list? (:-)
Or, am I doing something wrong?

Could you please point out possible fixes, patches, or any workable 
selection of values?

Thank you very much,

Panos





From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Wed Feb  6 11:42:40 2002
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To: Hao Zhang <zhanghao@sce.carleton.ca>
Subject: Re: resource about the power optimization on ad hoc network
Message-ID: <1013005468.3c613c9c21993@www.cs.virginia.edu>
Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 09:24:28 -0500 (EST)
From: Hridesh Rajan <hr2j@cs.virginia.edu>
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Hi 

Some publications on power/energy consumption:

Rodoplu, V.; Meng, T.H., “Minimum energy mobile wireless networks” IEEE Journal 
on Selected Areas in Communications, Volume: 17 Issue: 8, Aug. 1999 Page(s): 
1333 –1344 

Javier Gomez, Andrew T. Campbell, Mahmoud Naghshineh, Chatschik 
Bisdikian, “Conserving Transmission Power in Wireless Ad Hoc Networks”, Proc. 
9th International Conference on Network Protocols (ICNP 2001), Riverside, 
California, November 11 - 14, 2001. 

Javier Gomez, and Andrew T. Campbell, Mahmoud Naghshineh and C. 
Bisdikian "Power-Aware Routing in Wireless Packet Radio" , Proc. 6th IEEE 
International Workshop on Mobile Multimedia Communications (MOMUC99) , San 
Diego, 15-17 November 1999. 

J. Gomez, A.T. Campbell, M. Naghshineh, C. Bisdikian "PARO: A Power-Aware 
Routing Optimization Scheme for Mobile Ad hoc Networks", Internet Draft draft-
gomez-paro-manet-00.txt IETF MANET Working Group, 50th IETF - Minneapolis, MN, 
March 2001. 

Ya Xu, John Heidemann, and Deborah Estrin. Geography-informed Energy 
Conservation for Ad Hoc Routing. In Proceedings of the ACM/IEEE International 
Conference on Mobile Computing and Networking, pp. 70-84. Rome, Italy, ACM. 
July 2001. 
 
I hope you will find them usefull.

Hridesh 

Quoting Hao Zhang <zhanghao@sce.carleton.ca>:

> I am working on the study on optimizing the power/energy consumption of
> ad-hoc networking. Could someone tell me a link to find some papers or
> tech
> resource on it.  Thanks in advance for your help.
> 
> 
> 



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Subject: Call for Participation: German Workshop on Mobile Ad-Hoc Networks
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English version below.
Please excuse if you receive multiple copies of this mail.

---------------------

1. Deutscher Workshop über Mobile Ad-Hoc Netzwerke  (WMAN 2002)
Universität Ulm, 25.-26. März 2002

Call for Participation

Ziel des Workshops
------------------

Der Workshop über Mobile Ad-Hoc Netzwerke wird von der Gesellschaft für
Informatik (GI)/Informationstechnische Gesellschaft im VDE (ITG)
Fachgruppe 3.3.1 (Kommunikation und Verteilte Systeme), der GI
Fachgruppe 4.9.2 Multimedia und der Universität Ulm veranstaltet.

Ziel des Workshops ist es, auf diesem Gebiet tätige Forscher aus dem
deutschsprachigen Raum zum Ideen- und Meinungsaustausch
zusammenzubringen. Es soll eine Möglichkeit geschaffen werden, eigene
Projekte vorzustellen und in Diskussionen Ideen für neue
Forschungsvorhaben in diesem Gebiet zu entwickeln.

Der Workshop umfaßt das gesamte Spektrum des Forschungsgebietes Mobile
Ad-Hoc Netwerke. Themen sind unter anderem:

* Basistechnologien (802.11, Bluetooth, etc.)
* Routing Mechanismem
* Skalierbarkeit und Simulationen
* Automatische Addresszuweisung und Anbindung an das Internet
* Sicherheit und Datenschutz in Ad-Hoc Netzwerken
* Software Plattformen (Middleware) für Mobile Ad-Hoc Anwendungen
* MANET-Anwendungen und Dienste-Bereitstellung

Der Workshop ist in verschiedene thematische Schwerpunkte gegliedert,
neben Vorträgen werden auch moderierte Diskussionsrunden und Workshops
angeboten. Darüber hinaus werden genügend Freiräume für individuelle
Gespräche eingeplant. Das genaue Programm finden Sie auf den Webseiten
zum Workshop.

Die Beiträge werden im Rahmen der Serie GI - Lecture Notes in
Informatics zu veröffentlichen.

Eine Anmeldung ist über die Webseiten des Workshops möglich.

Projekt-Vorstellungen
---------------------

Sie arbeiten an einem interessanten Projekt rund um Ad-Hoc Netzwerke? In
diesem Fall besteht die Möglichkeit, Ihr Projekt am Anfang des Workshops
kurz (max. 10 Minuten) vorzustellen. Eine Projekt-Präsentation ist dabei
unabhängig von einer Einreichung eines "reviewed papers". Doch auch in
diesem Fall mag es sinnvoll sein, das eigene Projekt in einem größeren
Rahmen am Anfang des Workshops vorzustellen.  Diese Projekt-
Vorstellungen sind keinem Review unterworfen und erscheinen nicht im
Tagungsband.

Anmeldungen einer Projekt-Vorstellung bitte per E-Mail an
wman@medien.informatik.uni-ulm.de. Bitte eine kurze Zusammenfassung zum
Projekt beifügen. Die Zahl der Präsentations-Slots ist begrenzt. Es gilt
First-Come-First-Serve.

Programm Komitee
----------------

Chair:
Michael Weber, Universität Ulm

Reinhold Eberhardt, DaimlerChrysler AG
Claudia Linnhoff-Popien, Ludwig-Maximilians-Universität München
Frank Kargl, Universität Ulm
Silvano Maffeis, Softwired AG
Friedemann Mattern, ETH Zürich
Kurt Rothermel, Universität Stuttgart
Ralf Steinmetz, Technische Universität Darmstadt
Martina Zitterbart, Universität Karlsruhe

Wichtige Termine
----------------

* Start der Anmeldung:                      31. Jan. 2002
* Ende der Frühbucher-Phase:                28. Feb. 2002
* Workshop:                             25./26. März 2002

Ort
---

Der Workshop wird an der Universität Ulm durchgeführt. Details zu
Anfahrt, Übernachtung, Rahmenprogramm entnehmen Sie bitte den Webseiten
zum Workshop.

Webseiten
---------

http://medien.informatik.uni-ulm.de/conferences/WMAN2002/

---------------------

1. German Workshop on Mobile Ad-Hoc Networks  (WMAN 2002)
University of Ulm, Germany, 25.-26. March 2002

Call for Participation

Aim of the workshop
-------------------

The Workshop on Mobile Ad-Hoc Networks is organized by the German
Informatics Society (GI)/ Information Technology Society (ITG)
specialized group 3.3.1 ( Kommunikation und Verteilte Systeme), the GI
specialized group 4.9.2 (Multimedia) and the University of Ulm. 

It is the aim of this workshop to bring together researchers of the
german-speaking area working in the field of Mobile Ad-Hoc Networking to
exchange ideas and visions. It offers them an oportunity to present
their projects and discuss ideas for new research activities. Most of
the presentations and discussions will be in german, but there
will also be some events in english.

The workshop is to cover the entire spectrum of the research area
"Mobile Ad-Hoc Networks". Topics include: 

* Fundamental Technologies (802.11, Bluetooth, etc.) 
* Routing Mechanisms 
* Scalability and Simulations 
* Address Autoconfiguration
* Security and Privacy in Ad-Hoc Networks 
* Software Platforms (Middleware) for Mobile Ad-Hoc Scenarios 
* MANET applications and service-provision

The workshop will be divided into different subject; apart from lectures
there will also be moderated discussions and workshops. Furthermore
sufficient space for individual discussions will be provided. For
details see the web pages of the workshop.

The proceedings of the workshop will be published in the series "GI -
Lecture Notes in Informatics".

Use the webpages of the workshop to register for participation.

Projekt-Presentations
---------------------

You are working in an interesting project related to ad-hoc networks? In
this case you have the possibility to briefly (max. 10 min) present your
project at the beginning of the workshop. Note that you can also
participate in the project-presentation if you haven't submitted a
reviewed paper. But even authors of accepted papers may want to use the
opportunity to present an larger overview over their whole project.
The project presentations are not reviewed and will not appear in the
proceedings.

You can register for a project presentation via e-mail to
wman@medien.informatik.uni-ulm.de. Please attach a short summary of the
project you want to present. The number of presentation slots is limited
and distributed on a first-come-first-serve base.

Program Committee
-----------------

Chair:
Michael Weber, Universität Ulm
Reinhold Eberhardt, DaimlerChrysler AG
Claudia Linnhoff-Popien,
Ludwig-Maximilians-Universität München
Frank Kargl, Universität Ulm
Silvano Maffeis, Softwired AG
Friedemann Mattern, ETH Zürich
Kurt Rothermel, Universität Stuttgart
Ralf Steinmetz, Technische Universität Darmstadt
Martina Zitterbart, Universität Karlsruhe

Important Dates
---------------

Begin of Registration:       31. Jan. 2002
Early-Registration Deadline: 28. Feb. 2002
Workshop:                    25./26. March 2002

Location
--------

The Workshop will be held at the University of Ulm, Germany. Details on
transport, lodging, program, etc. are available on the web page.

Webpages
--------

http://medien.informatik.uni-ulm.de/conferences/WMAN2002/index.en.xml

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
 Frank Kargl          Multimedia Computing, University of Ulm, Germany
 Mail:frank.kargl@informatik.uni-ulm.de http://www.uni-ulm.de/~fkargl/
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
   Use the SOURCE, Luke !  I feel a great disturbance in the SOURCE.
            But beware of the Microsoft side of the SOURCE !


From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Wed Feb  6 12:47:46 2002
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Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 09:57:45 -0500
From: Jason Ballah <jlballah@earthlink.net>
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To: Panos Papadimitratos <papadp@ece.cornell.edu>
CC: manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil
Subject: Re: NIST Manet Opnet models & 802.11
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020206074723.02c14cd8@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu>
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Panos,
   The primary problem there is that the packet streams from the 
wlan_mac process module to the transmitter and receiver modules are 
criss-crossed and not defined correctly for any data rate other than 1 
Mbps.  You will need to re-define the packet streams to the transmitter 
and from the receiver in the dsr node module to match the defined stream 
enumerations in the wlan_mac process module.  (i.e., stream 0 is 1Mbps, 
stream 1 is 2Mbps etc).

   You can use the generic wireless lan workstation node provided by 
OPNET as a reference point.  Let me know if you run into problems and I 
can provide more assistance.

- Jason Ballah


Panos Papadimitratos wrote:

> Dear All,
>
> I have the following problem with the 802.11 Opnet model -- as used 
> for the above-mentioned DSR and AODV models:
>
> A change of the parameter values (wireless LAN attributes) makes all 
> transmissions to fail.
> For example, by setting the rate to 2Mbps (default: 1Mbps) not a 
> single packet is delivered!
> Other changes cause the same or similar problems as well. 
> Unfortunately, a selection of settings according to the IEEE standard 
> does not do the trick either.
>
> Is this one of the "minor" bugs that were discussed earlier (Dec/01) 
> in the list? (:-)
> Or, am I doing something wrong?
>
> Could you please point out possible fixes, patches, or any workable 
> selection of values?
>
> Thank you very much,
>
> Panos
>
>
>
>




From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Wed Feb  6 13:03:29 2002
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Message-ID: <001d01c1af1b$6e74a300$7637ad80@workgroup>
From: "Tao Lin" <taolin@vt.edu>
To: <T.Clausen@computer.org>
Cc: <manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0202061152140.12811-100000@armada>
Subject: Re: ns draft's version used for routing protocols
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 09:34:49 -0500
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Hi Thomas,

I have difficulty when complie ns-2 with your OLSR patch. Error messages
are list below. Could you check it? Thanks!

Tao

***********************************************
I use "./install" to compile and install ns. Problems occur when compiling
olsr.
Error messages are:"
c++ -c -O2 -DTCP_DELAY_BIND_ALL -DNO_TK -DTCLCL_CLASSINSTVAR  -DNDEBUG -DUSE
_SHM -DHAVE_LIBTCLCL -DHAVE_TCLCL_H -DHAVE_LIBOTCL1_0A6 -DHAVE_OTCL_H -DHAVE
_LIBTK8_3 -DHAVE_TK_H -DHAVE_LIBTCL8_3 -DHAVE_TCL_H  -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I/
home/io/tlin/ns/ns-allinone-2.1b7a/tclcl-1.0b10 -I/home/io/tlin/ns/ns-allino
ne-2.1b7a/otcl-1.0a6 -I/home/io/tlin/ns/ns-allinone-2.1b7a/include -I/home/i
o/tlin/ns/ns-allinone-2.1b7a/include -o cmu-trace.o cmu-trace.cc
cmu-trace.cc:52:34: olsr/packet.hh: No such file or directory
make: *** [cmu-trace.o] Error 1
Ns make failed!
See http://www-mash.CS.Berkeley.EDU/ns/ns-problems.html for problems
"
----- Original Message -----
From: <T.Clausen@computer.org>
To: "Bernardo Antunes Maciel Villela" <bernardo@gta.ufrj.br>
Cc: <manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil>; <bernardo_villela@yahoo.com.br>
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2002 6:00 AM
Subject: Re: ns draft's version used for routing protocols


> Hi Bernardo,
>
> On Tue, 5 Feb 2002, Bernardo Antunes Maciel Villela wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
>
> <SNIP>
>
> > Is there a page at Manet that points me to old versions of the drafts?
>
> In general, older ietf-drafts seems to be archived in several places. One
> of them is here: http://www.watersprings.org/pub/id/
>
> > And for OLSR, which is the good implementation in NS? Which version is
> > that?
>
> Currently, we have version 3 of the OLSR draft implemented and tested in
> ns-2.1b7. It may be downloaded from the OLSR www-page:
http://hipercom.inria.fr/olsr
>
> --
>
> -------------------------------------------
>   Thomas Heide Clausen
>   Civilingeniør i Datateknik (cand.polyt)
>   M.Sc in Computer Engineering
>
>   E-Mail: T.Clausen@computer.org
>   WWW:    http://www.cs.auc.dk/~voop
> -------------------------------------------
>



From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Wed Feb  6 13:19:37 2002
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From: "Andrew T. Campbell" <campbell@comet.columbia.edu>
To: "'Hridesh Rajan'" <hr2j@cs.virginia.edu>,
        "'Hao Zhang'" <zhanghao@sce.carleton.ca>
Cc: <manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil>
Subject: RE: resource about the power optimization on ad hoc network
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 10:31:59 -0500
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For those interested in the Columbia papers
Hao points to; they can be found at:

http://comet.columbia.edu/armstrong/

---
Andrew
http://comet.columbia.edu/~campbell


> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil
> [mailto:owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil]On Behalf Of Hridesh Rajan
> Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2002 9:24 AM
> To: Hao Zhang
> Cc: manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil
> Subject: Re: resource about the power optimization on ad hoc network
>
>
>
> Hi
>
> Some publications on power/energy consumption:
>
> Rodoplu, V.; Meng, T.H., “Minimum energy mobile wireless
> networks” IEEE Journal
> on Selected Areas in Communications, Volume: 17 Issue: 8,
> Aug. 1999 Page(s):
> 1333 –1344
>
> Javier Gomez, Andrew T. Campbell, Mahmoud Naghshineh, Chatschik
> Bisdikian, “Conserving Transmission Power in Wireless Ad Hoc
> Networks”, Proc.
> 9th International Conference on Network Protocols (ICNP
> 2001), Riverside,
> California, November 11 - 14, 2001.
>
> Javier Gomez, and Andrew T. Campbell, Mahmoud Naghshineh and C.
> Bisdikian "Power-Aware Routing in Wireless Packet Radio" ,
> Proc. 6th IEEE
> International Workshop on Mobile Multimedia Communications
> (MOMUC99) , San
> Diego, 15-17 November 1999.
>
> J. Gomez, A.T. Campbell, M. Naghshineh, C. Bisdikian "PARO: A
> Power-Aware
> Routing Optimization Scheme for Mobile Ad hoc Networks",
> Internet Draft draft-
> gomez-paro-manet-00.txt IETF MANET Working Group, 50th IETF -
> Minneapolis, MN,
> March 2001.
>
> Ya Xu, John Heidemann, and Deborah Estrin. Geography-informed Energy
> Conservation for Ad Hoc Routing. In Proceedings of the
> ACM/IEEE International
> Conference on Mobile Computing and Networking, pp. 70-84.
> Rome, Italy, ACM.
> July 2001.
>
> I hope you will find them usefull.
>
> Hridesh
>
> Quoting Hao Zhang <zhanghao@sce.carleton.ca>:
>
> > I am working on the study on optimizing the power/energy
> consumption of
> > ad-hoc networking. Could someone tell me a link to find
> some papers or
> > tech
> > resource on it.  Thanks in advance for your help.
> >
> >
> >
>



From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Wed Feb  6 15:01:25 2002
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To: Tao Lin <taolin@vt.edu>
cc: manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil
Subject: Re: ns draft's version used for routing protocols
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Tao,

How do you go about applying the patch? I think that it's there you will
find the source for the problem(s).

--thomas

(maybe we should keep this off-list? - it's hardly a manet-issue)

On Wed, 6 Feb 2002, Tao Lin wrote:

> Hi Thomas,
> 
> I have difficulty when complie ns-2 with your OLSR patch. Error messages
> are list below. Could you check it? Thanks!
> 
> Tao
> 
> ***********************************************
> I use "./install" to compile and install ns. Problems occur when compiling
> olsr.
> Error messages are:"
> c++ -c -O2 -DTCP_DELAY_BIND_ALL -DNO_TK -DTCLCL_CLASSINSTVAR  -DNDEBUG -DUSE
> _SHM -DHAVE_LIBTCLCL -DHAVE_TCLCL_H -DHAVE_LIBOTCL1_0A6 -DHAVE_OTCL_H -DHAVE
> _LIBTK8_3 -DHAVE_TK_H -DHAVE_LIBTCL8_3 -DHAVE_TCL_H  -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I/
> home/io/tlin/ns/ns-allinone-2.1b7a/tclcl-1.0b10 -I/home/io/tlin/ns/ns-allino
> ne-2.1b7a/otcl-1.0a6 -I/home/io/tlin/ns/ns-allinone-2.1b7a/include -I/home/i
> o/tlin/ns/ns-allinone-2.1b7a/include -o cmu-trace.o cmu-trace.cc
> cmu-trace.cc:52:34: olsr/packet.hh: No such file or directory
> make: *** [cmu-trace.o] Error 1
> Ns make failed!
> See http://www-mash.CS.Berkeley.EDU/ns/ns-problems.html for problems
> "
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <T.Clausen@computer.org>
> To: "Bernardo Antunes Maciel Villela" <bernardo@gta.ufrj.br>
> Cc: <manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil>; <bernardo_villela@yahoo.com.br>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2002 6:00 AM
> Subject: Re: ns draft's version used for routing protocols
> 
> 
> > Hi Bernardo,
> >
> > On Tue, 5 Feb 2002, Bernardo Antunes Maciel Villela wrote:
> >
> > > Hi all,
> >
> > <SNIP>
> >
> > > Is there a page at Manet that points me to old versions of the drafts?
> >
> > In general, older ietf-drafts seems to be archived in several places. One
> > of them is here: http://www.watersprings.org/pub/id/
> >
> > > And for OLSR, which is the good implementation in NS? Which version is
> > > that?
> >
> > Currently, we have version 3 of the OLSR draft implemented and tested in
> > ns-2.1b7. It may be downloaded from the OLSR www-page:
> http://hipercom.inria.fr/olsr
> >
> > --
> >
> > -------------------------------------------
> >   Thomas Heide Clausen
> >   Civilingeniør i Datateknik (cand.polyt)
> >   M.Sc in Computer Engineering
> >
> >   E-Mail: T.Clausen@computer.org
> >   WWW:    http://www.cs.auc.dk/~voop
> > -------------------------------------------
> >
> 

-- 

-------------------------------------------
  Thomas Heide Clausen
  Civilingeniør i Datateknik (cand.polyt)
  M.Sc in Computer Engineering

  E-Mail: T.Clausen@computer.org
  WWW:    http://www.cs.auc.dk/~voop
-------------------------------------------



From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Wed Feb  6 17:58:16 2002
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From: Vikas Kawadia <kawadia@control.csl.uiuc.edu>
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Subject: Re: resource about the power optimization on ad hoc network
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We have developed the COMPOW protocol for power control in ad hoc
networks. It has also been implemented and tested in a Linux testbed.

``Power Control in Ad-Hoc Networks: Theory, Architecture, Algorithm and
Implementation of the COMPOW protocol.'' 
* Swetha Narayanaswamy, Vikas Kawadia, R. S. Sreenivas and P. R. Kumar,

To appear in European Wireless 2002. Next Generation Wireless Networks:
Technologies, Protocols, Services and Applications, February 25-28, 2002.
Florence, Italy. 

The paper can be found here.

http://black1.csl.uiuc.edu/~prkumar/postscript_files.html#Wireless%20Networks

There is also a farily comprehensive list of references.

..vikas


On Wed, 6 Feb 2002, Hridesh Rajan wrote:

> 
> Hi 
> 
> Some publications on power/energy consumption:
> 
> Rodoplu, V.; Meng, T.H., “Minimum energy mobile wireless networks” IEEE Journal 
> on Selected Areas in Communications, Volume: 17 Issue: 8, Aug. 1999 Page(s): 
> 1333 –1344 
> 
> Javier Gomez, Andrew T. Campbell, Mahmoud Naghshineh, Chatschik 
> Bisdikian, “Conserving Transmission Power in Wireless Ad Hoc Networks”, Proc. 
> 9th International Conference on Network Protocols (ICNP 2001), Riverside, 
> California, November 11 - 14, 2001. 
> 
> Javier Gomez, and Andrew T. Campbell, Mahmoud Naghshineh and C. 
> Bisdikian "Power-Aware Routing in Wireless Packet Radio" , Proc. 6th IEEE 
> International Workshop on Mobile Multimedia Communications (MOMUC99) , San 
> Diego, 15-17 November 1999. 
> 
> J. Gomez, A.T. Campbell, M. Naghshineh, C. Bisdikian "PARO: A Power-Aware 
> Routing Optimization Scheme for Mobile Ad hoc Networks", Internet Draft draft-
> gomez-paro-manet-00.txt IETF MANET Working Group, 50th IETF - Minneapolis, MN, 
> March 2001. 
> 
> Ya Xu, John Heidemann, and Deborah Estrin. Geography-informed Energy 
> Conservation for Ad Hoc Routing. In Proceedings of the ACM/IEEE International 
> Conference on Mobile Computing and Networking, pp. 70-84. Rome, Italy, ACM. 
> July 2001. 
>  
> I hope you will find them usefull.
> 
> Hridesh 
> 
> Quoting Hao Zhang <zhanghao@sce.carleton.ca>:
> 
> > I am working on the study on optimizing the power/energy consumption of
> > ad-hoc networking. Could someone tell me a link to find some papers or
> > tech
> > resource on it.  Thanks in advance for your help.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
                          Vikas Kawadia
                          -------------
                    http://www.uiuc.edu/~kawadia
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-




From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Wed Feb  6 18:35:15 2002
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To: ogier@erg.sri.com
cc: MEDDOUR Djamal Eddine thesard FTRD/DAC/LAN <djamaleddine.meddour@rd.francetelecom.com>,
        Fred Baker <fred@cisco.com>, manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil
Subject: Re: performance comparaison between Ad Hoc routing protocols 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 06 Feb 2002 12:41:29 PST."
             <200202062041.MAA27993@pit.erg.sri.com> 
Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 16:29:15 -0500
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> 
>   - Although control traffic is not a quality-of-service measure, a protocol 
>     that generates less control traffic:
> 
>     - uses less energy,
>     - is more likely to scale to a larger number of nodes,
        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Why so?

The "pure flooding" protocol (in which every data packet is flooded
throughout  the network) consumes zero overhead. Does that mean it
scales to infinite number of nodes? :)

The flippancy of the above example notwithstanding, one should really
look at the TOTAL OVERHEAD (sum of control message overhead + sub-optimal
route overhead (extra bandwidth wasted due to longer paths). There are
many instances in my experience where a mechanism that takes more
overhead ends up doing better in terms of user metrics.

For a more formal treatment of TOTAL OVERHEAD, see

Making Link State Routing Scale for Ad Hoc Networks, in Mobihoc 2001 by
C. Santivanez et al

On the Scalability of Routing for Ad Hoc Networks, to appear in Infocom 2002,
by C. Santivanez et al


>     - is more likely to perform well in lower bandwidth radios such
>       as those used by the military.
> 
> 
> -----------------------
> Richard Ogier
> Sr. Research Engineer
> SRI International
> 333 Ravenswood Ave.
> Menlo Park, CA 94025
> Tel: 650-859-4216
> Fax: 650-859-4812
> Email: ogier@erg.sri.com
> ------------------------
> 



From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Wed Feb  6 18:55:34 2002
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Subject: Re: performance comparaison between Ad Hoc routing protocols 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 23 Jan 2002 15:24:15 +0100."
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> hi all body
> is there any new studies wich made a comparaison between all routing
> protocols (espicially AODV and OLSR) .
> thank you 
> best regards

I ran some ns-2 simulations comparing TBRPF to OLSR and AODV,
using the corrected ns-2 code for OLSR.  The simulation results 
can be found at the TBRPF web site: 
http://www.erg.sri.com/projects/tbrpf/

The results are summarized below.  Comments are welcome.

Protocols compared:

   - TBRPF code for ns-2.1b8
     Available from http://www.erg.sri.com/projects/tbrpf/sourcecode.html
     Uses the same 'C' code as our Linux implementation

   - OLSR code for ns-2.1b7
     Available from http://hipercom.inria.fr/olsr/
     Bug affecting packet size was fixed.

   - AODV code for ns-2.1b8
     Available from http://www.cs.ucsb.edu/~eroyer/aodv.html

   - Link-layer notification was not used for any of the protocols
     (it is available with the TBRPF and AODV code but not with the OLSR code).

Simulation model:

  - ns-2 version 2.1b8
  - WaveLAN IEEE 802.11 MAC with rate 2Mb/s and range 250m
  - 50 and 100 nodes
  - Two area sizes: 670m x 670m and 1500m x 300m
  - Mobility model: No mobility, and random waypoint model with 0 pause 
    time and maximum speed 20 m/s.
  - 20 simultaneous CBR traffic streams:
    - Source and destination of each stream are selected randomly 
    - Duration of each stream is 30 seconds
    - Size of each data packet is 512 bytes
    - Packet generation rate per stream is increased from 2 to 8 packets/s
  - Each simulation was run for 500 simulated seconds.

Rationale for the simulation parameters: 

  - We chose a wide range of characteristics to ensure that we did not 
    use only scenarios that favor TBRPF or proactive protocols (no 
    mobility and high mobility, square area and long rectangular area, 
    50 and 100 nodes).  
  - We chose a stream duration of 30s to provide a moderate amount of 
    traffic dynamics without giving too much advantage to proactive 
    protocols.  (Note that the Aalborg Univ. study used 10s for 
    comparison of OLSR and AODV, which gives proactive protocols more 
    advantage than 30s)
    
Summary of results:

  - In every scenario, TBRPF achieved the highest delivery percentage of all
    three protocols: up to 15% more than OLSR and 23% more than AODV.

  - In every scenario, TBRPF generated significantly less routing control 
    traffic than the other protocols: up to 60% less than OLSR and 36% 
    less than AODV.  This is true despite the fact that TBRPF sends
    HELLOs twice as frequently as OLSR.
    
  - TBRPF and OLSR achieved similar delay curves.  When the network was 
    congested, AODV tended to achieve smaller delays than the other protocols 
    with mobility, and larger delays with no mobility.

Remarks:

  - This study did not use link-layer notification.  It is important to 
    also compare the protocols with link-layer notification, since this 
    allows one to achieve a delivery fraction close to 100%.
    (A comparison of TBRPF with AODV using link-layer notification can
    be also be found at the TBRPF web site.)

  - Although control traffic is not a quality-of-service measure, a protocol 
    that generates less control traffic:

    - uses less energy,
    - is more likely to scale to a larger number of nodes,
    - is more likely to perform well in lower bandwidth radios such
      as those used by the military.


-----------------------
Richard Ogier
Sr. Research Engineer
SRI International
333 Ravenswood Ave.
Menlo Park, CA 94025
Tel: 650-859-4216
Fax: 650-859-4812
Email: ogier@erg.sri.com
------------------------


From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Wed Feb  6 20:13:49 2002
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Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 18:11:38 -0500
To: "Hao Zhang" <zhanghao@sce.carleton.ca>
From: Jeff Wieselthier <wieselthier@itd.nrl.navy.mil>
Subject: Re: resource about the power optimization on ad hoc network
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>I am working on the study on optimizing the power/energy consumption of
>ad-hoc networking. Could someone tell me a link to find some papers or tech
>resource on it.  Thanks in advance for your help.

Here is the message I posted to the manet list on 11/28/01.
I hope this is helpful.

    -- Jeff






In response to the recent request for references on power-aware 
routing on the manet list, here is a listing of our publications in 
this area.

We have recently published numerous papers on energy-aware 
broadcasting and multicasting.

Most of our work addresses energy-efficient operation, in which the 
goal is to produce energy-efficient trees.

We address the impact of finite transceiver and bandwidth resources.

Papers [4], [13], [14] and [16] address the important case of 
energy-limited operation, in which a node dies when its energy is 
depleted.  We show how network lifetime can be extended dramatically 
by appropriate changes to the cost function used in constructing the 
trees.

These papers are not yet available on our website, although we hope 
to post them in the near future.

In the meantime, we would be happy to email our papers to anyone who 
is interested.

      Best regards,
      Jeff 


   Papers on Energy-Aware Broadcasting and Multicasting
   Naval Research Laboratory

Journal Articles

[1]  J. E. Wieselthier, G. D. Nguyen, and A. Ephremides, "Algorithms 
for Energy-Efficient Multicasting in Static Ad Hoc Wireless 
Networks," Journal on Special Topics in Mobile Networking and 
Applications (MONET), 6-3, pp. 251-263, June 2001.

[2]  J. E. Wieselthier, G. D. Nguyen, and A. Ephremides, 
"Energy-Efficient Broadcast and Multicast Trees in Wireless 
Networks," to appear in the Journal on Special Topics in Mobile 
Networking and Applications (MONET).

[3]  J. E. Wieselthier, G. D. Nguyen, and A. Ephremides, 
"Energy-Efficient Multicasting of Session Traffic in Bandwidth- and 
Transceiver-Limited Wireless Networks," to appear in Journal of 
Cluster Computing.

[4]  J. E. Wieselthier, G. D. Nguyen, and A. Ephremides, "Resource 
Management in Energy-Limited, Bandwidth-Limited, Transceiver Limited 
Wireless Networks for Session-Based Multicasting," to appear in 
Computer Networks.


Conference Papers

[5]  J. E. Wieselthier, G. D. Nguyen, and A. Ephremides, 
"Multicasting in Energy-Limited Ad-Hoc Wireless Networks," 
Proceedings of IEEE MILCOM'98, Bedford, MA, pp. 723-729, October 1998.

[6]  J. E. Wieselthier, G. D. Nguyen, and A. Ephremides, 
"Energy-Efficient Wireless Networking Techniques: Fundamental Issues 
and an Application to Multicasting in Ad Hoc Networks," Proceedings 
of the NATO RTO Information Systems Technology (IST) Symposium on 
Tactical Mobile Communications (RTO-MP-26), Lillehammer, Norway, pp. 
5-1-5-13, June 1999.

[7]  J. E. Wieselthier, G. D. Nguyen, and A. Ephremides, "Algorithms 
for Energy-Efficient Multicasting in Ad Hoc Wireless Networks," 
Proceedings of MILCOM'99, Atlantic City, NJ, October/November 1999.

[8]  J. E. Wieselthier, G. D. Nguyen, and A. Ephremides, "On the 
Construction of Energy-Efficient Broadcast and Multicast Trees in 
Wireless Networks," Proceedings of IEEE INFOCOM 2000, Tel Aviv, 
Israel, pp. 585-594, March 2000.

[9]  G. D. Nguyen, J. E. Wieselthier, and A. Ephremides, "The Effect 
of Bandwidth Limitations on Wireless Broadcasting and Multicasting," 
2000 Conference on Information Sciences and Systems, Princeton 
University, pp. TA7a-7-TA7a-12, March 2000.

[10]  J. E. Wieselthier, G. D. Nguyen, and A. Ephremides, "Algorithms 
for Bandwidth-Limited Energy-Efficient Wireless Broadcasting and 
Multicasting," Proceedings of IEEE MILCOM 2000, Los Angeles, CA, 
October 2000.

[11]  J. E. Wieselthier, G. D. Nguyen, and A. Ephremides, "Energy 
Efficiency, Energy Constraints, and Admission Control in Wireless 
Networks: A Case Study in Session Multicasting," Proceedings of the 
38th Annual Allerton Conference on Communication, Control, and 
Computing, pp. 103-112, October 2000.

[12]  J. E. Wieselthier, G. D. Nguyen, and A. Ephremides, 
"Resource-Limited Energy-Efficient Wireless Multicast of Session 
Traffic," Proceedings of Hawaii International Conference on System 
Sciences (HICSS-34), Maui, Hawaii, January 2001.

[13]  J. E. Wieselthier, G. D. Nguyen, and A. Ephremides, "Energy 
Efficiency in Energy-Limited Wireless Networks for Session-Based 
Multicasting," Proceedings of the 2001 Spring Vehicular Technology 
Conference, May 2001.

[14]  G. D. Nguyen, J. E. Wieselthier, and A. Ephremides, "The 
Effects of Multicast Group Size and Antenna Directivity on 
Energy-Constrained Multicasting," Proceedings of the 2001 Conference 
on Information Sciences and Systems, Johns Hopkins University, 
Baltimore, MD, March 2001.

[15]  J. E. Wieselthier, G. D. Nguyen, and A. Ephremides, "The Impact 
of Directional Antennas on Energy-Aware, Session-Based Multicasting 
in Ad Hoc Wireless Networks," Proceedings of IEEE MILCOM 2001, 2001.

[16]  J. E. Wieselthier, G. D. Nguyen, and A. Ephremides, 
"Energy-Limited Wireless Networking with Directional Antennas: The 
Case of Session-Based Multicasting," to appear in Proceedings of IEEE 
INFOCOM 2002, New York, NY, to take place June 2002.
--============_-1199085396==_ma============
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"

<!doctype html public "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<html><head><style type="text/css"><!--
blockquote, dl, ul, ol, li { margin-top: 0 ; margin-bottom: 0 }
 --></style><title>Re: resource about the power optimization on ad hoc
ne</title></head><body>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>I am working on the study on optimizing
the power/energy consumption of<br>
ad-hoc networking. Could someone tell me a link to find some papers or
tech</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>resource on it.&nbsp; Thanks in advance
for your help.</blockquote>
<div><br></div>
<div>Here is the message I posted to the manet list on 11/28/01.</div>
<div>I hope this is helpful.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>&nbsp;&nbsp; -- Jeff</div>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div>
<div><font color="#000000">In response to the recent request for
references on power-aware routing on the manet list, here is a listing
of our publications in this area.</font></div>
<div><font color="#000000"><br>
We have recently published numerous papers on energy-aware
broadcasting and multicasting.<br>
<br>
Most of our work addresses energy-efficient operation, in which the
goal is to produce energy-efficient trees.<br>
<br>
We address the impact of finite transceiver and bandwidth
resources.</font><br>
</div>
<div><font color="#000000">Papers [4], [13], [14] and [16] address the
important case of energy-limited operation, in which a node dies when
its energy is depleted.&nbsp; We show how network lifetime can be
extended dramatically by appropriate changes to the cost function used
in constructing the trees.</font></div>
<div><font color="#000000"><br>
These papers are not yet available on our website, although we hope to
post them in the near future.<br>
<br>
In the meantime, we would be happy to email our papers to anyone who
is interested.<br>
<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Best regards,<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Jeff&nbsp;</font></div>
<div><font color="#000000"><br>
<br>
</font></div>
<div><font size="+2" color="#000000"><b>&nbsp; Papers on Energy-Aware
Broadcasting and Multicasting</b></font></div>
<div><font size="+2" color="#000000"><b>&nbsp; Naval Research
Laboratory</b></font></div>
<div><font color="#000000"><br>
<b>Journal Articles<br>
<br>
</b>[1]&nbsp; J. E. Wieselthier, G. D. Nguyen, and A. Ephremides,
&quot;Algorithms for Energy-Efficient Multicasting in Static Ad Hoc
Wireless Networks,&quot;<i> Journal on Special Topics in Mobile
Networking and Applications (MONET),</i><b> 6-</b>3, pp. 251-263, June
2001.<br>
<br>
[2]&nbsp; J. E. Wieselthier, G. D. Nguyen, and A. Ephremides,
&quot;Energy-Efficient Broadcast and Multicast Trees in Wireless
Networks,&quot;<i> to appear in the Journal on Special Topics in
Mobile Networking and Applications (MONET)</i>.<br>
<br>
[3]&nbsp; J. E. Wieselthier, G. D. Nguyen, and A. Ephremides,
&quot;Energy-Efficient Multicasting of Session Traffic in Bandwidth-
and Transceiver-Limited Wireless Networks,&quot;<i> to appear in
Journal of Cluster Computing</i>.<br>
<br>
[4]&nbsp; J. E. Wieselthier, G. D. Nguyen, and A. Ephremides,
&quot;Resource Management in Energy-Limited, Bandwidth-Limited,
Transceiver Limited Wireless Networks for Session-Based
Multicasting,&quot;<i> to appear in Computer Networks</i>.<br>
<br>
<br>
<b>Conference Papers<br>
<br>
</b>[5]&nbsp; J. E. Wieselthier, G. D. Nguyen, and A. Ephremides,
&quot;Multicasting in Energy-Limited Ad-Hoc Wireless
Networks,&quot;<i> Proceedings of IEEE MILCOM'98,</i> Bedford, MA, pp.
723-729, October 1998.<br>
<br>
[6]&nbsp; J. E. Wieselthier, G. D. Nguyen, and A. Ephremides,
&quot;Energy-Efficient Wireless Networking Techniques: Fundamental
Issues and an Application to Multicasting in Ad Hoc Networks,&quot;<i>
Proceedings of the NATO RTO Information Systems Technology (IST)
Symposium on Tactical Mobile Communications (RTO-MP-26),</i>
Lillehammer, Norway, pp. 5-1-5-13, June 1999.<br>
<br>
[7]&nbsp; J. E. Wieselthier, G. D. Nguyen, and A. Ephremides,
&quot;Algorithms for Energy-Efficient Multicasting in Ad Hoc Wireless
Networks,&quot;<i> Proceedings of MILCOM'99,</i> Atlantic City, NJ,
October/November 1999.</font></div>
<div><font color="#000000"><br></font></div>
<div><font color="#000000">[8]&nbsp; J. E. Wieselthier, G. D. Nguyen,
and A. Ephremides, &quot;On the Construction of Energy-Efficient
Broadcast and Multicast Trees in Wireless Networks,&quot;<i>
Proceedings of IEEE INFOCOM 2000,</i> Tel Aviv, Israel, pp. 585-594,
March 2000.<br>
<br>
[9]&nbsp; G. D. Nguyen, J. E. Wieselthier, and A. Ephremides,
&quot;The Effect of Bandwidth Limitations on Wireless Broadcasting and
Multicasting,&quot;<i> 2000 Conference on Information Sciences and
Systems,</i> Princeton University, pp. TA7a-7-TA7a-12, March 2000.<br>
<br>
[10]&nbsp; J. E. Wieselthier, G. D. Nguyen, and A. Ephremides,
&quot;Algorithms for Bandwidth-Limited Energy-Efficient Wireless
Broadcasting and Multicasting,&quot;<i> Proceedings of IEEE MILCOM
2000,</i> Los Angeles, CA, October 2000.<br>
<br>
[11]&nbsp; J. E. Wieselthier, G. D. Nguyen, and A. Ephremides,
&quot;Energy Efficiency, Energy Constraints, and Admission Control in
Wireless Networks: A Case Study in Session Multicasting,&quot;<i>
Proceedings of the 38th Annual Allerton Conference on Communication,
Control, and Computing,</i> pp. 103-112, October 2000.</font></div>
<div><font color="#000000"><br>
[12]&nbsp; J. E. Wieselthier, G. D. Nguyen, and A. Ephremides,
&quot;Resource-Limited Energy-Efficient Wireless Multicast of Session
Traffic,&quot;<i> Proceedings of Hawaii International Conference on
System Sciences (HICSS-34),</i> Maui, Hawaii, January 2001.<br>
<br>
[13]&nbsp; J. E. Wieselthier, G. D. Nguyen, and A. Ephremides,
&quot;Energy Efficiency in Energy-Limited Wireless Networks for
Session-Based Multicasting,&quot;<i> Proceedings of the 2001 Spring
Vehicular Technology Conference,</i> May 2001.</font></div>
<div><font color="#000000"><br>
[14]&nbsp; G. D. Nguyen, J. E. Wieselthier, and A. Ephremides,
&quot;The Effects of Multicast Group Size and Antenna Directivity on
Energy-Constrained Multicasting,&quot;<i> Proceedings of the 2001
Conference on Information Sciences and Systems,</i> Johns Hopkins
University, Baltimore, MD, March 2001.<br>
<br>
[15]&nbsp; J. E. Wieselthier, G. D. Nguyen, and A. Ephremides,
&quot;The Impact of Directional Antennas on Energy-Aware,
Session-Based Multicasting in Ad Hoc Wireless Networks,&quot;<i>
Proceedings of IEEE MILCOM 2001,</i> 2001.<br>
<br>
[16]&nbsp; J. E. Wieselthier, G. D. Nguyen, and A. Ephremides,
&quot;Energy-Limited Wireless Networking with Directional Antennas:
The Case of Session-Based Multicasting,&quot; to appear in<i>
Proceedings of IEEE INFOCOM 2002,</i> New York, NY, to take place June
2002.</font></div>
</body>
</html>
--============_-1199085396==_ma============--


From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Wed Feb  6 23:45:00 2002
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From: "Kim, JinUg" <jukim@os.korea.ac.kr>
To: <manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil>
Subject: Research area
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 11:30:09 +0900
Message-ID: <NFECIDCCMLNBOKFCOIDFGECHCCAA.jukim@os.korea.ac.kr>
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Recently I have begun studying the area of Ad hoc networks and I am
interested in concentrating on tcp performance or autoconfiguration.
what are the main areas of current research or existing problems ?

Any comments?

Jade

-----------------------------------------------------
 Kim, JinUg (Jade)
 Don't be constrained by today's technology
 Operating System Lab.
 Dept. of CSE, Korea University
 5-Ka Anam-Dong, SungBuk-Gu, SEOUL, 136-701, KOREA
 E-mail        jukim@os.korea.ac.kr
 ICQ            75693268
 Cell Phone 82-11-9119-0024
 -----------------------------------------------------
 


From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Thu Feb  7 01:17:53 2002
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To: Ram Ramanathan <ramanath@BBN.COM>
cc: ogier@erg.sri.com, manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil
Reply-To: ogier@erg.sri.com
From: ogier@erg.sri.com
Subject: Re: performance comparaison between Ad Hoc routing protocols 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 06 Feb 2002 16:29:15 EST."
             <200202062129.QAA43627@crystal.bbn.com> 
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Hi Ram,

> >   - Although control traffic is not a quality-of-service measure, a protocol 
> >     that generates less control traffic:
> > 
> >     - uses less energy,
> >     - is more likely to scale to a larger number of nodes,
>         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> 
> Why so?
> 
> The "pure flooding" protocol (in which every data packet is flooded
> throughout  the network) consumes zero overhead. Does that mean it
> scales to infinite number of nodes? :)
> 
> The flippancy of the above example notwithstanding, one should really
> look at the TOTAL OVERHEAD (sum of control message overhead + sub-optimal
> route overhead (extra bandwidth wasted due to longer paths). 

I agree that overhead due to suboptimal routes should be considered.
Our simulation results at the TBRPF web site include graphs that
show the average hop count.  TBRPF and OLSR usually use shorter paths
than AODV, and in our simulations with link-layer notification,
TBRPF typically uses paths that are 10-15% shorter than AODV.

One problem with total overhead is that it is highly dependent on the
amount of data traffic sent, whereas routing control traffic is often
fairly independent of this.

> There are many instances in my experience where a mechanism that takes more
> overhead ends up doing better in terms of user metrics.

I'm not sure if you mean "total overhead" here.  
But since the min-hop path is not always the best path, it is certainly
possible for a protocol to perform better by using longer paths
(and thus more total overhead).  Full flooding also achieves better 
reliability by using more total overhead than other flooding mechanisms.
And the following example, in which neither of the two disjoint paths
from 1 to 4 uses a min-hop path, shows that sometimes throughput can be 
increased by using more total overhead:

       5-6 
      /   \ 
     /     \ 
1 - 2 - 3 - 4 
 \     / 
  \   / 
   6-7


Richard


> For a more formal treatment of TOTAL OVERHEAD, see
> 
> Making Link State Routing Scale for Ad Hoc Networks, in Mobihoc 2001 by
> C. Santivanez et al
> 
> On the Scalability of Routing for Ad Hoc Networks, to appear in Infocom 2002,
> by C. Santivanez et al
> 
> 
> >     - is more likely to perform well in lower bandwidth radios such
> >       as those used by the military.
> > 
> > 
> > -----------------------
> > Richard Ogier
> > Sr. Research Engineer
> > SRI International
> > 333 Ravenswood Ave.
> > Menlo Park, CA 94025
> > Tel: 650-859-4216
> > Fax: 650-859-4812
> > Email: ogier@erg.sri.com
> > ------------------------
> > 
> 


From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Thu Feb  7 13:18:08 2002
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From: "Karthik Ramakrishnan" <kramakri@engmail.uwaterloo.ca>
To: <manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil>
Subject: Archive
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 10:33:41 -0500
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Hello,

      I just wanted to know if there is an archive for this mailing list and
if so where I can I access it?
Thank You
Karthik.



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You can try to visit 
http://www.cs.hut.fi/~mart/mail/manet/
enjoy it!
B.S. Zhou

>From: "Karthik Ramakrishnan" <kramakri@engmail.uwaterloo.ca>
>To: <manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil>
>Subject: Archive
>Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 10:33:41 -0500
>
>Hello,
>
>       I just wanted to know if there is an archive for this mailing list 
and
>if so where I can I access it?
>Thank You
>Karthik.
>


_________________________________________________________________
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From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Fri Feb  8 22:56:07 2002
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From: Seung-Hak Lee <shlee@camars.kaist.ac.kr>
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Subject: CFP for International Workshop on Ad Hoc Networking (IWAN2002)
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CALL FOR PAPERS
 
International Workshop on Ad Hoc Networking (IWAN2002)
to be held in conjunction with ICPP-2002
 
August 18-21, 2002
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada 
 
http://calab.kaist.ac.kr/Conf/IWAN2002/
 
This workshop provides a forum for engineers and scientists in academia, 
industry and government to present their latest research findings 
in any aspect of ad hoc networking. Topics of interest include, 
but are not limited to:
 
 - Ad Hoc Routing Protocols           
 - Ad Hoc Multicasting
 - Ad Hoc Transport Layer Issues     
 - Ad Hoc Networking over Bluetooth
 - Quality of Service Issues 
 - Ad Hoc Network Architectures
 - Sensor and Data Fusion Ad Hoc Networks 
 - Media Access Techniques 
 - Applications for Ad Hoc Networks 
 - Peer-to-Peer Networking
 - Distributed Algorithms for Ad Hoc Networks 
 - Mobile IP with Ad Hoc
 - Low Power and Energy-Efficient Algorithm and Protocol Designs
 - Security and Fault-Tolerance Issues for Ad Hoc Networks
 
Paper Submission :
Authors are invited to submit research contributions representing original, 
previously unpublished work. Submitted papers will be carefully evaluated 
based on originality, significance, technical soundness, and clarity of 
exposition. All papers will be refereed by at least two members of 
the program committee. Accepted papers will be published as proceedings of 
ICPP-2002 workshops. All submitted papers MUST be formatted according 
to the author guidelines provided by ICPP-2002 and MUST NOT be longer 
than 6 pages.
 
Submission Deadline  April 1, 2002
Author Notification  May 1, 2002
Final Manuscript Due  June 1, 2002
 
Electronic Submission :
Please e-mail one PDF or PostScript version of your paper to the Workshop 
Program Chair at hyoon@calab.kaist.ac.kr
 
Workshop Co-Chairs :
Professor Hyunsoo Yoon 
Dept. of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science 
Korea Advanced Institute of Science and Technology  
373-1 Kusong-dong, Yusong-ku, Daejon, Korea 
E-mail: hyoon@calab.kaist.ac.kr 
Tel: +82-42-869-3529  Fax: +82-42-869-5569 
 
Professor Joong-Soo Ma 
Mobile Multimedia Research Center
Information and Communication University (ICU)
58-4, Hwaam-Dong Yusong-Gu Daejon Korea
E-mail: jsma@icu.ac.kr
Tel: +82-42-866-6124
 
Program Committee Members :
Charles E. Perkins, Nokia Research Center 
David B. Johnson, Department of Computer Science Rice University
Elizabeth M. Royer, University of California at Santa Barbara 
Zygmunt J. Hass, Cornell University 
Stefano Basagni, UT-Dallas  
Young-Bae Ko, IBM T.J. Watson Research
Songwu Lu, UCLA 
Sung-Ju Lee, Hewlett-Packard Labs 
Andrew Campbell, Columbia University  
Ram Ramanathan, BBN Tech.
Ramesh Govindan, ICSI, The University of California at Berkeley
David Maltz, AON Networks  
Jean-Pierre Hubaux, Swiss Federal Institute of Technology 
Ting-Chao Hou, National Chung Cheng University, Taiwan 
Gunter Hommel, Technical University of Berlin, Germany
Christian Bonnet, Institut Eurecom, France 
Gerald Q. Maguire, Royal Institute of Technology, Sweden
W. C. Wong, National University of Singapore 
Brahim Bensaou, Hong Kong University of Science and Technology
Pravin Bhagwat, University of Maryland
Aoyama Tomonori, Osaka University, Japan
Takahiro HARA, Osaka University, Japan 
KAWAI, Makoto, Kyoto University, Japan  
Sungbae Eun, Hannam University, Korea
Ikjoon Yeom, KAIST, Korea
Chongkwon Kim, Seoul National University, Korea
Joonwon Lee, KAIST, Korea



From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Sat Feb  9 02:43:35 2002
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CALL FOR PAPERS
 
International Workshop on Ad Hoc Networking (IWAN2002)
to be held in conjunction with ICPP-2002
 
August 18-21, 2002
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada 
 
http://calab.kaist.ac.kr/Conf/IWAN2002/
 

This workshop provides a forum for engineers and scientists in academia, 
industry and 
government to present their latest research findings in any aspect of ad 
hoc networking. Topics 
of interest include, but are not limited to:
 
 - Ad Hoc Routing Protocols           
 - Ad Hoc Multicasting
 - Ad Hoc Transport Layer Issues     
 - Ad Hoc Networking over Bluetooth
 - Quality of Service Issues 
 - Ad Hoc Network Architectures
 - Sensor and Data Fusion Ad Hoc Networks 
 - Media Access Techniques 
 - Applications for Ad Hoc Networks 
 - Peer-to-Peer Networking
 - Distributed Algorithms for Ad Hoc Networks 
 - Mobile IP with Ad Hoc
 - Low Power and Energy-Efficient Algorithm and Protocol Designs
 - Security and Fault-Tolerance Issues for Ad Hoc Networks
 
Paper Submission :
Authors are invited to submit research contributions representing original, 
previously 
unpublished work. Submitted papers will be carefully evaluated based on 
originality, 
significance, technical soundness, and clarity of exposition. All papers 
will be refereed by at 
least two members of the program committee. Accepted papers will be 
published as proceedings of 
ICPP-2002 workshops. All submitted papers MUST be formatted according to 
the author guidelines 
provided by ICPP-2002 and MUST NOT be longer than 6 pages.
 
Submission Deadline  April 1, 2002
Author Notification  May 1, 2002
Final Manuscript Due  June 1, 2002
 
Electronic Submission :
Please e-mail one PDF or PostScript version of your paper to the Workshop 
Program Chair at
hyoon@calab.kaist.ac.kr
 
Workshop Co-Chairs :
Professor Hyunsoo Yoon 
Dept. of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science 
Korea Advanced Institute of Science and Technology  
373-1 Kusong-dong, Yusong-ku, Daejon, Korea 
E-mail: hyoon@calab.kaist.ac.kr 
Tel: +82-42-869-3529  Fax: +82-42-869-5569 
 
Professor Joong-Soo Ma 
Mobile Multimedia Research Center
Information and Communication University (ICU)
58-4, Hwaam-Dong Yusong-Gu Daejon Korea
E-mail: jsma@icu.ac.kr
Tel: +82-42-866-6124
 
Program Committee Members :
Charles E. Perkins, Nokia Research Center 
David B. Johnson, Department of Computer Science Rice University
Elizabeth M. Royer, University of California at Santa Barbara 
Zygmunt J. Hass, Cornell University 
Stefano Basagni, UT-Dallas  
Young-Bae Ko, IBM T.J. Watson Research
Songwu Lu, UCLA 
Sung-Ju Lee, Hewlett-Packard Labs 
Andrew Campbell, Columbia University  
Ram Ramanathan, BBN Tech.
Ramesh Govindan, ICSI, The University of California at Berkeley
David Maltz, AON Networks  
Jean-Pierre Hubaux, Swiss Federal Institute of Technology 
Ting-Chao Hou, National Chung Cheng University, Taiwan 
Gunter Hommel, Technical University of Berlin, Germany
Christian Bonnet, Institut Eurecom, France 
Gerald Q. Maguire, Royal Institute of Technology, Sweden
W. C. Wong, National University of Singapore 
Brahim Bensaou, Hong Kong University of Science and Technology
Pravin Bhagwat, University of Maryland
Aoyama Tomonori, Osaka University, Japan
Takahiro HARA, Osaka University, Japan 
KAWAI, Makoto, Kyoto University, Japan  
Sungbae Eun, Hannam University, Korea
Ikjoon Yeom, KAIST, Korea
Chongkwon Kim, Seoul National University, Korea
Joonwon Lee, KAIST, Korea



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Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2002 11:21:19 -0500
From: Yuguang Fang <fang@ece.ufl.edu>
To: Yuguang Fang <fang@ece.ufl.edu>
Subject: SPECTS'2002 in San Diego
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New Submission Deadline: February 28, 2002
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
(We apologize for the inconvenience this message may cause if 
you receive multiple copies) 

Due to numerous requests, the conference organizing committee has 
decided to extend the paper submission deadline to 
February 28, 2002. 

Call For Papers

2002 International Symposium on Performance Evaluation of Computer and
Telecommunication Systems
SPECTS 2002


July 14-19, 2002
U. S. Grant Hotel
San Diego, California, USA

http://www.scs.org/confernc/spects02/


This annual international conference is a forum for professionals
involved in performance evaluation of computer and telecommunication
systems. Evaluation of computer systems and networks is needed at every
stage in the life cycle of the product including design, manufacturing,
sales/purchase, use, upgrade, tuning, etc. The discipline of performance
evaluation has progressed rapidly in the past decade, and it has now
begun to approach maturity. Significant progress has been made in
analytic modeling, simulation, and measurement approaches for
performance evaluation of computer and telecommunication systems.

Topics of interest include, but are not limited to:

Networking and Telecommunication Systems
- Internet Technology
- Quality of Service (QoS)
- DiffServ/IntServ
- TCP
- Unicast and Multicast Routing
- High-Speed Networking
- ATM
- Optical Networks
- Switching Techniques
- Teletraffic
- Satellite Systems and Networks
- Wireless Systems
- UMTS/IMT-2000
- Mobile Networks/Computing
- Multimedia Systems
- Multimedia Communications
- Adaptive Communications
- Network Protocols
- Network Management and Control
- Network Capacity Planning
- Network Architecture Evaluation
- Service and QoS Pricing
- Security and Authentication
- World Wide Web (WWW) Technology
- Electronic Commerce


Computer Systems
- Client/Server
- Microprocessors/Microcomputers
- Memory Systems
- Interconnection Networks
- Software Performance
- Software Evaluation and Testing
- Hardware and Software Monitors
- High-Performance Computing
- Workload and Traffic Characterization
- Scientific Computing Algorithms
- High Performance I/O
- Reconfigurable Computing
-Real-time Systems
- Parallel and Distributed Computing
- Distributed Systems and Agents
- Massively Parallel Systems
- Cluster Computing
- Parallel Algorithms and Languages
- Scheduling Schemes


Tools, Methodologies and Applications
- Parallel and Distributed Simulation
- Verification and Validation
- Performance Tools and Methodologies
- Neural Networks and Fuzzy Logic Applications to High Performance
  Computing/Networking
- Performance Optimization
- Queueing Systems and Networks
- Scalability Studies
- Integrated Modeling and Measurement
- On-Line Performance Adaptation and Tuning
- Process Algebra-Based Models
- Performance Bounds
- Integrated Design and Performance
- New Performance Models
- Mathematical Aspects of Performance
- New Performability Schemes and Models
- Case Studies


General Chair
Mohammad S. Obaidat
Dept. of Computer Science, Monmouth University
W. Long Branch, NJ 07764, USA
Tel +1-732-571-4482
Fax +1-732-263-5202
E-mail: obaidat@monmouth.edu


Senior Program Chair
Franco Davoli
DIST-University of Genoa
Via Opera Pia 13, I-16145 Genoa, Italy
Tel +39-010-353-2732
Fax +39-010-353-2154
E-Mail: franco@dist.unige.it

Program Co-Chairs
Ibrahim Onyuksel
Dept. of Computer Sciences, N. Illinois Univ., USA
E-mail: onyuksel@cs.niu.edu

Raffaele Bolla
DIST-University of Genoa
Via Opera Pia 13, I-16145 Genoa, Italy
E-mail: lelus@dist.unige.it

Vice Program Chair
Erina Ferro  
CNUCE, Institute of National Research Council (C.N.R.)
C.N.R. Pisa Research Area, Building B, Room 73        
Via G. Moruzzi, 1                                     
56124 Pisa, Italy   
E-mail: erina.ferro@cnuce.cnr.it

Industrial Track Chair
J. Fox, Motorola Inc., UK
E-mail: fox.ijcs@btinternet.com

Publicity Chair
Yuguang (Michael) Fang, University of Florida, USA, E-mail: fang@ece.ufl.edu

Web Master:
Daniel Lee, University of Southern California, E-mail: dclee@rcf-fs.usc.edu


Technical Program Committee

Jagan  P. Agrawal, University of Missouri - Kansas City, USA
Ian Akyildiz, Georgia Tech., USA
M. Atiquzzaman, University of Oklahoma, USA
Harmen R. van As, Vienna University of Technology, Austria
Louis G. Birta, University of Ottawa, Canada
Noureddine Boudriga, University of Tunis, Tunisia
Hasan Cam, Arizona State University, USA
Andrew Campbell, Columbia University, USA
Fabio M. Chiussi, Bell Laboratories, Lucent Technologies, USA
Hassan B. Diab, American University of Beirut, Lebanon
Gabor Fodor, Ericsson Radio Systems, Sweden
John Fox, Motorola, UK
Luigi Fratta, Politecnico di Milano, Italy
Aura Ganz, University of Massachusetts, USA
Erol Gelenbe, University of Central Florida, USA
Mario Gerla, UCLA, USA
Omar Hammami, ENSTA, France
Jarmo Harju, Tampere University of Technology, Finland
Herman Hughes, Michigan State University, USA
Andrzej Jajszczyk, University of Mining and Metallurgy, Poland
Ingemar Kaj, Uppsala University, Sweden
Helen Karatza, Aristotle University of Thessalonica, Greece
Demetrios Kazakos, University of Louisiana, USA	
Ulrich Killat, Tech Univ. of Hamburg, Germany
Tag Gon Kim, KAIST, Korea
Belka Kraimeche, Stevens Institute of Technology, USA
Paul J. Kuehn, University of Stuttgart, Germany
Kevin Kwiat, Air Force Research Laboratory, USA
Veronica Lagrange M. Reis, Compaq Computers Corp., USA
Axel Lehmann, Universität der Bundeswehr München, Germany
Daniel C. Lee, USC, USA
Mike T. Liu, Ohio State University, USA
Imad Mahgoub, Florida Atlantic University, USA
Sam Makki, Queensland University of Technology, Australia
Krzysztof Malinowski, Warsaw Technical University, Poland
Jose L. Marzo, Universitat de Girona, Spain
Xiannong Meng, Bucknell University, USA 
Hussein Mouftah, Queen's University, Canada
M. Ould-Khaoua, University of Glasgow, UK
Sergio Palazzo, Università di Catania, Italy
Georgios I. Papadimitriou, Aristotle University, Greece
Achille Pattavina, Politecnico di Milano, Italy
Krzysztof Pawlikowski, University of Canterbury, New Zealand
Steven Pink, University of Arizona, USA
George Polyzos, AUEB, Greece
Ramon Puigjaner, Universitat de les Illes Balears, Spain 
Kaliappa Ravindran, CUNY, USA
Gian Paolo Rossi, Università di Milano, Italy
Izhak Rubin, UCLA, USA
Donald Schilling, CUNY, USA
Jens B. Schmitt, TU Darmstadt, Germany
C. Tim Spracklen, Aberdeen University, UK
Tatsuya Suda, UCI, USA
Iwao Toda, Fujutsu Laboratories Ltd., Japan
Phuoc Tran-Gia, University of Wuerzburg, Germany
Kenneth S. Vastola, Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, USA
Manuel Villen-Altamirano, Telefonica, Spain
Bernd E. Wolfinger, Hamburg University, Germany
Michele Zorzi, Università di Ferrara, Italy

International Liaisons
B. Sadoun, Al-Balqa' Applied University, Jordan
Bsadoun@go.com.jo
M. Sawan, Montreal Poly, Canada
Sawan@vlsi.polymtl.ca
N. Tchamov, Tampere Univ. of Technology, Finland
Nikolay@cs.tut.fi

Publicity Committee:
Hideki Tode, Osaka Univ., Japan, E-mail: Tode@ise.eng.osaka-u.ac.jp
Nusseirat, Al-Isra University, Jordan, E-mail: anuseirat@firstnet.com.jo

Paper Submission
Submit your complete papers electronically to: 

http://scs.proceedingscentral.com/

All required instructions will be posted on this web site. Submissions 
should not exceed 25 double-spaced, 8.5x11 inch pages (including figures, 
tables, and references) in 10-12 point font. Include five to ten keywords, 
complete postal and e-mail addresses, and fax and phone numbers of 
corresponding author. If you have difficulty in electronic submission, 
contact the Web Master, Program Chairs or the Conference Coordinator, 
Mr. Steve Branch, The Society for Modeling and Simulation International, 
4838 Ronson Court, Suite L, San Diego, CA  92111, USA, Tel 858-277-3888, 
Fax 858-277-3930, E-mail sbranch@scs.org sbranch@scs.org.

Extended versions of accepted papers in SPECTS 2002 will be considered for 
possible publication in scholarly journals. Proposals for tutorials, special 
and panel sessions should be sent to the Conference Senior Program Chair. 
Proposals for industrial sessions should be submitted to the Industrial 
Track Chair.

For more information regarding presentations or exhibitions at SPECTS 2002 
contact: Mr. Steve Branch at the address shown above.

Deadlines
Submission of Papers:  Extended to February 28, 2002. 
Notification of Acceptance - April 22, 2002
Final Camera-Ready Submission - May 22, 2002

Sponsored by The Society for Modeling and Simulation International.




-- 
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
Yuguang "Michael" Fang, Ph.D 
Assistant Professor 
Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering
University of Florida 
435 Engineering Building, P.O.Box 116130
Gainesville, FL 32611
Tel: (352) 846-3043, Fax: (352) 392-0044
Email: fang@ece.ufl.edu, http://www.fang.ece.ufl.edu 
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%


From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Mon Feb 11 15:58:55 2002
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Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 08:44:27 -0800 (PST)
From: Yang Xiao <yangxiao_acm@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: YangXiao@ieee.org
Subject: CFP: Modeling, Analysis, and Simulation of Wireless LANs and Mobile Ad Hoc Networks and QoS Issues
To: manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil
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My apologies if you receive this CFP duplicated.
-------------------

Call for Papers- Deadline extented

Invited Session Title: Modeling, Analysis, and Simulation of Wireless
LANs and Mobile Ad Hoc Networks and QoS Issues

Invited Session in the 6th World Multi-Conference on Systemics, 
Cybernetics and Informatics, (SCI 2002) Orlando, Florida, USA, July 14 
-18, 2002


Topics of Interest
	
Wireless LANs & Mobile Ad Hoc Networks (not limited to)

	Simulation, Modeling and performance evaluation of Wireless 
        LANs, such as IEEE 802.11, HIPERLAN, and Ad hoc Networks.
	Quality-of-service issues in Wireless LANs (IEEE 802.11e, 
        HIPERLAN/2, etc.) and Ad Hoc Networks.
	Power Consumption issues
	Higher data rates
	3G/4G-WLAN
	Differentiated Services for Wireless LANs
	Co-existence of the IEEE 802.11 and 802.15
	Resource Management 
	Analytical methods.

Deadlines

Submission of Extended Abstracts: February 25, 2002
Notification of Acceptance: March 15, 2002
Camera Ready Copies:  April 03, 2002

Session Co-Organizers/co-chairs

Dr. Yang Xiao, Micro Linear, USA
Dr. Bin Wang, Wright State University, USA

Instructions For Submission

Submission should be in the form of extended abstracts up to 4 pages 
long. All submitted contributions will be subject to peer review on the

basis of technical correctness, quality, relevance, originality, 
significance, and clarity.  Abstracts should be in MS Word, PDF or PS 
format. Submissions should be sent to the session's co-organizers. 
Successful submissions will be asked to submit a full paper. Full 
papers must be formatted according to IEEE-CS guidelines

Electronic Submission:

Dr. Yang Xiao: YangXiao@IEEE.ORG
Dr. Bin Wang: bwang@cs.wright.edu

For more details check at http://www.iiis.org/sci2002/
last updated 02/11/02



__________________________________________________
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From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Tue Feb 12 06:48:17 2002
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From: MEDDOUR Djamal Eddine thesard FTRD/DAC/LAN
	 <djamaleddine.meddour@rd.francetelecom.com>
To: "'Kilian Weniger'" <weniger@tm.uka.de>
Cc: manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil,
        CARLINET Yannick FTRD/DAC/LAN
	 <yannick.carlinet@rd.francetelecom.com>
Subject: Address Allocation with IPV6
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 09:41:13 +0100
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this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

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hi all
I am reading a paper which talk about Address Allocation with IPV6 (IPv6
Autoconfiguration in Large Scale Mobile Ad Hoc Networks). do you think
really that a same scheme is needed?. in IPV6 we have a huge number of IP
address, we can attribute statically one adresse by node (when we buy a
terminal we can buy an IP address with it).
any comments ? 
 

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<TITLE>Address Allocation with IPV6</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>hi all</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>I am reading a paper which talk about Address =
Allocation with IPV6 (IPv6 Autoconfiguration in Large Scale Mobile Ad =
Hoc Networks). do you think really that a same scheme is needed?. in =
IPV6 we have a huge number of IP address, we can attribute statically =
one adresse by node (when we buy a terminal we can buy an IP address =
with it).</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>any comments ? </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&nbsp;</FONT>
</P>

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From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Tue Feb 12 08:28:49 2002
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Hello Djamal,

I have two comments on that:

Firstly, in your scenario routing would only work if every existing
device has an unique IPv6 address assigned by the manufacturer.
This is not the case today and even
if EVERY manufacturer would start doing so at some point of time in the
future (I don't see any such effort, yet), there are still
thousands of devices without addresses, that were sold before.
Furthermore, you would need some sort of central registration, as there is
for IEEE MAC-addresses. And even the MAC-addresses are not unique today
(some manufacturers sell devices with unregistered MAC-addresses; you can change
the MAC-address of some devices,...). So even in the case you would have
this central registry, you probably want to have a backup solution to
guarantee unique addresses.

By the way, if you argue against IPv6 SAA in ad hoc networks, you
could also argue against IPv6 SAA in general (in wired LANs). You
wouldn't need that, too, if all (wired) network devices would have unique,
pre-assigned IPv6 addresses.

Secondly, a hierarchy is established by the architecture described in the
paper, which can be used by routing protocols to achieve an improved
scalability (route aggregation...). You wouldn't have this with
preassigned addresses.


Kilian Weniger


On Tue, 12 Feb 2002, MEDDOUR Djamal Eddine thesard FTRD/DAC/LAN wrote:

> hi all
> I am reading a paper which talk about Address Allocation with IPV6 (IPv6
> Autoconfiguration in Large Scale Mobile Ad Hoc Networks). do you think
> really that a same scheme is needed?. in IPV6 we have a huge number of IP
> address, we can attribute statically one adresse by node (when we buy a
> terminal we can buy an IP address with it).
> any comments ?
>
>

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dipl.-Ing. Kilian Weniger           phone: (+49)(0)721-608 6415
Institute of Telematics             fax:   (+49)(0)721-388097
Department of Computer Science      email: weniger@tm.uni-karlsruhe.de
University of Karlsruhe 	    homepage: http://www.tm.uka.de/~weniger/
D-76128 Karlsruhe



From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Tue Feb 12 11:45:05 2002
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Subject: Asymmetric links
From: Jonas Nielsen <jonasn@diku.dk>
Date: 12 Feb 2002 15:23:35 +0100
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In some ways DSR is said to be superior to AODV because it supports
asymmetric links. But in what scenarios are asymmetric links used. I
can only see that either a system is (almost) symmetric or highly
assymetric (e.g sattelite communications).


From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Tue Feb 12 20:15:33 2002
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Hi, Gitte,

You can find the paper at  URL:
http://www.cs.ucla.edu/NRL/wireless/papers.html

best,

Xiaoyan
On Wed, 6 Feb 2002, Gitte Hansen wrote:

> Hi Xiaoyan
>
> Is this paper available from anywhere else than the proceedings, as I
> would like to read it?
>
> Regards,
> Gitte Hansen
>
> Xiaoyan Hong wrote:
> >
> > Hi, Vikas,
> >
> > OLSR has been simulated in GloMoSim by UCLA. An ICC 2002 paper:
> > "Scalable Ad Hoc Routing in Large, Dense Wireless
> > Networks Using  Clustering and Landmarks" contains some simulation
> > results.
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > Xiaoyan
> >
> > On 5 Feb 2002, vikas p verma wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Hi All,
> > >
> > >
> > > Can anyone please clarify if OLSR has been simulated for Ad hoc n/w in
> > GloMoSim as yet.
> > >
> > > Vikas
> > >
>



From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Tue Feb 12 20:46:49 2002
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Sorry these comments are late. These comments are for the WG last call of
aodv-10. This draft appears to be a substantial improvement in the
definition of AODV, as it is more clearly and precisely specifies the
protocol. I did find a few problems with the draft as it stands, and would
like to raise a couple points previously brought up on the list. 

As was mentioned on the list before by Erik Nordstrom (in Message-ID
<Pine.GSO.4.21.0112131555350.10628-100000@hamberg.it.uu.se> on December
13, 2001), Hello messages don't work with unidirectional links, since
Hello messages can propogate over such links, but packets can't flow in
the reverse direction. 

Because of the use of NODE_TRAVERSAL_TIME, it seems inconsistent to allow
any node to hold a packet beyond NODE_TRAVERSAL_TIME (ie a node buffering
a packet for NODE_TRAVERSAL_TIME MUST drop the packet), and
NODE_TRAVERSAL_TIME should not be a configurable parameter at any node
(needs to be consistant network-wide).

Any cycle in the network which has aggregate latency PATH_TRAVERSAL_TIME
could cause the infinite looping of RREQ packets, and each time the RREQ
goes around this cycle, it would cause another flood of the entire
network, subject to TTL constraints. PATH_TRAVERSAL_TIME therefore should
be conservatively set to NETWORK_NODES * NODE_TRAVERSAL_TIME. 

The definition of PATH_DISCOVERY_TIME in Section 10 is unparsable.

This draft does not seem to define a default RREQ_RETRIES, nor does it
provide any guidance on how one might set that particular parameter. 

There may be a node X which has a very dynamic network on one side of it
and a very static network on the other side of it. It may be possible for
X to issue 2^31 sequence numbers on the active side between new sequence
numbers on the static side. This would cause the static side to believe
that all new sequence numbers were stale for quite a long period of time,
and possibly preclude routing to X. A more aggressive mechanism for
dealing with wraparound is needed. 

Suppose some node Y has a route to X and sends packets over that route
once per ACTIVE_ROUTE_TIMEOUT. If X reboots, and K sequential data packets
or corresponding RERRs are lost over the entire path from X to Y, Y will
be unable to find routes to X until the newly chosen sequence number
becomes greater than Y's current sequence number. 

The draft should give some guidance about the types of networks for which
AODV is a suitable routing protocol.

The precursor list is only set in response to RREPs, but RREQs serve as a
form of RREP in that they create routing state. As a result, precursor
lists SHOULD be set in the sender when an RREQ it propogates is received. 

In Section 10, the draft allows a node to "possibly [reconfigure] the
HELLO_INTERVAL." This is too vague to be in a specification. Allowing
arbitrary changes to HELLO_INTERVAL is also problematic if a node does not
always boot to a consistant HELLO_INTERVAL. For example, if a node X sets
HELLO_INTERVAL to 10s, and advertises it, upstream neighbors only require
one HELLO within 30s. X reboots and need only wait 5 seconds before it
starts participating in the protocol again. Nodes would no longer be able
to reach X. 

In Sec 6.2, the draft allows the receipt of AODV control packets to
confirm that a neighbor is still there. Not only does this suffer the same
problem with unidirectional links as Hello packets, it also is
ill-specified. The language in the draft can be interpreted to allow an
RREQ that has traversed multiple hops could be used to renew the neighbor
status of the source of the RREQ. 




From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Wed Feb 13 01:23:12 2002
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From: Rajesh Bhairampally <rajesh@utdallas.edu>
To: Jonas Nielsen <jonasn@diku.dk>
Cc: manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil
Subject: Re: Asymmetric links
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I guess asymetry comes with the time; i mean, as the time passes, nodes
loose energy; different nodes may have different energy losses. so, there
can be a situation where a node can receive data  from another node, but
it doesn't has sufficient energy levels to send its data to the other
node. such situations create unidirectional links in the network which
originally started with bidirectional links.

rajesh


On 12 Feb 2002, Jonas Nielsen wrote:

> In some ways DSR is said to be superior to AODV because it supports
> asymmetric links. But in what scenarios are asymmetric links used. I
> can only see that either a system is (almost) symmetric or highly
> assymetric (e.g sattelite communications).
> 

Rajesh



From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Wed Feb 13 10:28:36 2002
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From: Kilian Weniger <weniger@tm.uka.de>
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You can have unidirectional links even if you have enough battery power:

Firstly, if you use power control alogrithms. This is obvious.
Secondly, interference leads to a decrease of the SNR at the receiver. If
the interference is much higher at one of both receivers, the link
may be unidirectional.

I guess there are even more examples of situation, which result in
unidirectional links.


Kilian


On Tue, 12 Feb 2002, Rajesh Bhairampally wrote:

> I guess asymetry comes with the time; i mean, as the time passes, nodes
> loose energy; different nodes may have different energy losses. so, there
> can be a situation where a node can receive data  from another node, but
> it doesn't has sufficient energy levels to send its data to the other
> node. such situations create unidirectional links in the network which
> originally started with bidirectional links.
>
> rajesh
>
>
> On 12 Feb 2002, Jonas Nielsen wrote:
>
> > In some ways DSR is said to be superior to AODV because it supports
> > asymmetric links. But in what scenarios are asymmetric links used. I
> > can only see that either a system is (almost) symmetric or highly
> > assymetric (e.g sattelite communications).
> >
>
> Rajesh
>

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dipl.-Ing. Kilian Weniger           phone: (+49)(0)721-608 6415
Institute of Telematics             fax:   (+49)(0)721-388097
Department of Computer Science      email: weniger@tm.uni-karlsruhe.de
University of Karlsruhe 	    homepage: http://www.tm.uka.de/~weniger/
D-76128 Karlsruhe



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From: MEDDOUR Djamal Eddine thesard FTRD/DAC/LAN
	 <djamaleddine.meddour@rd.francetelecom.com>
To: manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil
Subject: definition of large ad hoc networks
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any comments ?


-----Message d'origine-----
De : Kilian Weniger [mailto:weniger@tm.uka.de]
Envoy=E9 : mercredi 13 f=E9vrier 2002 13:58
=C0 : Bruno Husson
Cc : MEDDOUR Djamal Eddine thesard FTRD/DAC/LAN; CARLINET Yannick
FTRD/DAC/LAN
Objet : Re: Address Allocation with IPV6



From my point of view a large network is a couple of hundred nodes. You
might have as many nodes in conferences, at exhibitions, on highways =
etc.

For example kids in the back of a car want to play multiplayer-games =
with
other kids in another car, or you want to exchange files with other
people in a train.... This would be too expensive und not free from
interruptions (tunnels,...), if you would use cellular networks.


Kilian


On Wed, 13 Feb 2002, Bruno Husson wrote:

> Hello Kilian,
>
> What are the use cases of large ad-hoc networks  you consider as =
possible
?
> Large ad-hoc networks for which kind of community :
> - Companies ?
> - public sites like airports, railway stations, hospitals ?
> - public networks ?
> Have you some example where large ad-hoc networks would be an =
interesting
solution compared to
> cellular based networks ?
>
>
> Kilian Weniger a =E9crit :
>
> > Hi Bruno,
> >
> > yes, we are also interested in large networks. We want a system, =
that
> > scales to a large number of nodes.
> >
> > We claim, that our system can do that. Of course it also works for =
small
> > networks. E.g. If the network is so small, that it has the radius =
equal
> > or less to the radius of a scope, there is only one subnet with one
leader node.
> > This is equivalent to a simple, flat address scheme.
> >
> > If nodes also would have unique IPv6 address, this could be used as
global
> > routable address in conjunction with Mobile IP to connect the ad =
hoc
> > network to the internet. The site-local addresses constructed by =
the
IPv6
> > SAA could than be used for the communication within the ad hoc =
network
> > (with the benefit of route aggregation).
> >
> > regards,
> >
> > Kilian Weniger
> >
> > On Tue, 12 Feb 2002, Bruno Husson wrote:
> >
> > > Hello Kilian and Djamal,
> > >
> > > Kilian Weniger a =E9crit :
> > >
> > > > Hello Djamal,
> > > >
> > > > I have two comments on that:
> > > >
> > > > Firstly, in your scenario routing would only work if every =
existing
> > > > device has an unique IPv6 address assigned by the manufacturer.
> > >
> > > IPv6 shall not be defined by the manufacturer. It should be
auto-configured or configured by
> > > administrator of the network.
> > >
> > > > This is not the case today and even
> > > > if EVERY manufacturer would start doing so at some point of =
time in
the
> > > > future (I don't see any such effort, yet), there are still
> > > > thousands of devices without addresses, that were sold before.
> > > > Furthermore, you would need some sort of central registration, =
as
there is
> > > > for IEEE MAC-addresses. And even the MAC-addresses are not =
unique
today
> > > > (some manufacturers sell devices with unregistered =
MAC-addresses;
you can change
> > > > the MAC-address of some devices,...). So even in the case you =
would
have
> > > > this central registry, you probably want to have a backup =
solution
to
> > > > guarantee unique addresses.
> > >
> > > Yes. IPv6 adress may be built based on MAC address (EUI-64 =
solution).
In that case it has a
> > > good probability to be unique, except that some devices may have =
non
unique MAC adress for
> > > the reasons you indicate.
> > > So, some detection of duplicate address (DAD) should be =
recommanded,
except if you work in a
> > > closed environment where your are sure it is unnecessary (this is =
not
the IETF philosophy).
> > >
> > > >
> > > > By the way, if you argue against IPv6 SAA in ad hoc networks, =
you
> > > > could also argue against IPv6 SAA in general (in wired LANs). =
You
> > > > wouldn't need that, too, if all (wired) network devices would =
have
unique,
> > > > pre-assigned IPv6 addresses.
> > >
> > > This is not the solely objctive of SAA.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Secondly, a hierarchy is established by the architecture =
described
in the
> > > > paper, which can be used by routing protocols to achieve an =
improved
> > > > scalability (route aggregation...). You wouldn't have this with
> > > > preassigned addresses.
> > > >
> > >
> > > That's the point. The site local or global IPv6 address is built =
to be
unique but also to
> > > enable integration of the node in a hierarchical address scheme.
> > > In a flat address scheme, a unique EUI-64 address would be =
sufficient
(except that we are
> > > not totally sure it is a unique address). However a flat address =
space
would imply great
> > > complexity in routing tables!  So hierarchy in the adress space =
is
needed and networs are
> > > pertitioned in subnetworks.
> > >
> > > Now, the problem is to define the notion of hierarchy and of
subnetwork in ad-hoc networks.
> > > There are several proposal but no unique answer to that question. =
In a
theoretical world,
> > > the mechanism proposed in the document seems interesting =
(hierarchy
depends on topology and
> > > may evolve with it). It answers large networks needs.
> > > Possibly there are more simple solutions that would answer =
smaller
topology cases where an
> > > a-dhoc network is a falt subnetwork to be integrated in a larger
network and adressing plan.
> > >
> > > Are you more interested in large scale networks ?
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Kilian Weniger
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, 12 Feb 2002, MEDDOUR Djamal Eddine thesard FTRD/DAC/LAN
wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > hi all
> > > > > I am reading a paper which talk about Address Allocation with =
IPV6
(IPv6
> > > > > Autoconfiguration in Large Scale Mobile Ad Hoc Networks). do =
you
think
> > > > > really that a same scheme is needed?. in IPV6 we have a huge
number of IP
> > > > > address, we can attribute statically one adresse by node =
(when we
buy a
> > > > > terminal we can buy an IP address with it).
> > > > > any comments ?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > >
------------------------------------------------------------------------=
----
------------
> > > > Dipl.-Ing. Kilian Weniger           phone: (+49)(0)721-608 6415
> > > > Institute of Telematics             fax:   (+49)(0)721-388097
> > > > Department of Computer Science      email:
weniger@tm.uni-karlsruhe.de
> > > > University of Karlsruhe             homepage:
http://www.tm.uka.de/~weniger/
> > > > D-76128 Karlsruhe
> > >
> > > --
> > > Bruno HUSSON
> > > Tel : +33 1 46 08 61 92
> > > Fax : +33 1 46 08 61 10
> > > Standard : +33 1 46 08 61 00
> > > e-mail:bruno.husson@sycomore.fr
> > > -----------------
> > > SYCOMORE - Groupe EADS
> > > Immeuble l'Etendard
> > > 63 ter, Avenue Edouard VAILLANT
> > > 92517 BOULOGNE-BILLANCOURT
> > > http://www.sycomore.fr
> > > ------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --
> >
------------------------------------------------------------------------=
----
------------
> > Dipl.-Ing. Kilian Weniger           phone: (+49)(0)721-608 6415
> > Institute of Telematics             fax:   (+49)(0)721-388097
> > Department of Computer Science      email: =
weniger@tm.uni-karlsruhe.de
> > University of Karlsruhe             homepage:
http://www.tm.uka.de/~weniger/
> > D-76128 Karlsruhe
>
> --
> Bruno HUSSON
> Tel : +33 1 46 08 61 92
> Fax : +33 1 46 08 61 10
> Standard : +33 1 46 08 61 00
> e-mail:bruno.husson@sycomore.fr
> -----------------
> SYCOMORE - Groupe EADS
> Immeuble l'Etendard
> 63 ter, Avenue Edouard VAILLANT
> 92517 BOULOGNE-BILLANCOURT
> http://www.sycomore.fr
> ------------------------------------------------------
>
>

--=20
------------------------------------------------------------------------=
----
------------
Dipl.-Ing. Kilian Weniger           phone: (+49)(0)721-608 6415
Institute of Telematics             fax:   (+49)(0)721-388097
Department of Computer Science      email: weniger@tm.uni-karlsruhe.de
University of Karlsruhe 	    homepage: http://www.tm.uka.de/~weniger/
D-76128 Karlsruhe

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<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>any comments ?</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>-----Message d'origine-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>De : Kilian Weniger [<A =
HREF=3D"mailto:weniger@tm.uka.de">mailto:weniger@tm.uka.de</A>]</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Envoy=E9 : mercredi 13 f=E9vrier 2002 13:58</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>=C0 : Bruno Husson</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Cc : MEDDOUR Djamal Eddine thesard FTRD/DAC/LAN; =
CARLINET Yannick</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>FTRD/DAC/LAN</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Objet : Re: Address Allocation with IPV6</FONT>
</P>
<BR>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>From my point of view a large network is a couple of =
hundred nodes. You</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>might have as many nodes in conferences, at =
exhibitions, on highways etc.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>For example kids in the back of a car want to play =
multiplayer-games with</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>other kids in another car, or you want to exchange =
files with other</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>people in a train.... This would be too expensive =
und not free from</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>interruptions (tunnels,...), if you would use =
cellular networks.</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Kilian</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>On Wed, 13 Feb 2002, Bruno Husson wrote:</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Hello Kilian,</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; What are the use cases of large ad-hoc =
networks&nbsp; you consider as possible ?</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Large ad-hoc networks for which kind of =
community :</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; - Companies ?</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; - public sites like airports, railway stations, =
hospitals ?</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; - public networks ?</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Have you some example where large ad-hoc =
networks would be an interesting solution compared to</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; cellular based networks ?</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Kilian Weniger a =E9crit :</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; Hi Bruno,</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; yes, we are also interested in large =
networks. We want a system, that</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; scales to a large number of nodes.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; We claim, that our system can do that. Of =
course it also works for small</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; networks. E.g. If the network is so small, =
that it has the radius equal</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; or less to the radius of a scope, there is =
only one subnet with one leader node.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; This is equivalent to a simple, flat =
address scheme.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; If nodes also would have unique IPv6 =
address, this could be used as global</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; routable address in conjunction with =
Mobile IP to connect the ad hoc</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; network to the internet. The site-local =
addresses constructed by the IPv6</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; SAA could than be used for the =
communication within the ad hoc network</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; (with the benefit of route =
aggregation).</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; regards,</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; Kilian Weniger</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; On Tue, 12 Feb 2002, Bruno Husson =
wrote:</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; Hello Kilian and Djamal,</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; Kilian Weniger a =E9crit :</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Hello Djamal,</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; I have two comments on =
that:</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Firstly, in your scenario =
routing would only work if every existing</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; device has an unique IPv6 =
address assigned by the manufacturer.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; IPv6 shall not be defined by the =
manufacturer. It should be auto-configured or configured by</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; administrator of the network.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; This is not the case today and =
even</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; if EVERY manufacturer would =
start doing so at some point of time in the</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; future (I don't see any such =
effort, yet), there are still</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; thousands of devices without =
addresses, that were sold before.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Furthermore, you would need some =
sort of central registration, as there is</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; for IEEE MAC-addresses. And even =
the MAC-addresses are not unique today</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; (some manufacturers sell devices =
with unregistered MAC-addresses; you can change</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; the MAC-address of some =
devices,...). So even in the case you would have</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; this central registry, you =
probably want to have a backup solution to</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; guarantee unique =
addresses.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; Yes. IPv6 adress may be built based =
on MAC address (EUI-64 solution). In that case it has a</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; good probability to be unique, except =
that some devices may have non unique MAC adress for</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; the reasons you indicate.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; So, some detection of duplicate =
address (DAD) should be recommanded, except if you work in a</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; closed environment where your are =
sure it is unnecessary (this is not the IETF philosophy).</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; By the way, if you argue against =
IPv6 SAA in ad hoc networks, you</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; could also argue against IPv6 =
SAA in general (in wired LANs). You</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; wouldn't need that, too, if all =
(wired) network devices would have unique,</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; pre-assigned IPv6 =
addresses.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; This is not the solely objctive of =
SAA.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Secondly, a hierarchy is =
established by the architecture described in the</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; paper, which can be used by =
routing protocols to achieve an improved</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; scalability (route =
aggregation...). You wouldn't have this with</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; preassigned addresses.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; That's the point. The site local or =
global IPv6 address is built to be unique but also to</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; enable integration of the node in a =
hierarchical address scheme.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; In a flat address scheme, a unique =
EUI-64 address would be sufficient (except that we are</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; not totally sure it is a unique =
address). However a flat address space would imply great</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; complexity in routing tables!&nbsp; =
So hierarchy in the adress space is needed and networs are</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; pertitioned in subnetworks.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; Now, the problem is to define the =
notion of hierarchy and of subnetwork in ad-hoc networks.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; There are several proposal but no =
unique answer to that question. In a theoretical world,</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; the mechanism proposed in the =
document seems interesting (hierarchy depends on topology and</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; may evolve with it). It answers large =
networks needs.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; Possibly there are more simple =
solutions that would answer smaller topology cases where an</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; a-dhoc network is a falt subnetwork =
to be integrated in a larger network and adressing plan.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; Are you more interested in large =
scale networks ?</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Kilian Weniger</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; On Tue, 12 Feb 2002, MEDDOUR =
Djamal Eddine thesard FTRD/DAC/LAN wrote:</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; hi all</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; I am reading a paper which =
talk about Address Allocation with IPV6 (IPv6</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Autoconfiguration in Large =
Scale Mobile Ad Hoc Networks). do you think</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; really that a same scheme =
is needed?. in IPV6 we have a huge number of IP</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; address, we can attribute =
statically one adresse by node (when we buy a</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; terminal we can buy an IP =
address with it).</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; any comments ?</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; --</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; =
------------------------------------------------------------------------=
----------------</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Dipl.-Ing. Kilian =
Weniger&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
phone: (+49)(0)721-608 6415</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Institute of =
Telematics&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; fax:&nbsp;&nbsp; (+49)(0)721-388097</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Department of Computer =
Science&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; email: =
weniger@tm.uni-karlsruhe.de</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; University of =
Karlsruhe&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; homepage: <A HREF=3D"http://www.tm.uka.de/~weniger/" =
TARGET=3D"_blank">http://www.tm.uka.de/~weniger/</A></FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; D-76128 Karlsruhe</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; --</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; Bruno HUSSON</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; Tel : +33 1 46 08 61 92</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; Fax : +33 1 46 08 61 10</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; Standard : +33 1 46 08 61 00</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
e-mail:bruno.husson@sycomore.fr</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; -----------------</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; SYCOMORE - Groupe EADS</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; Immeuble l'Etendard</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; 63 ter, Avenue Edouard =
VAILLANT</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; 92517 BOULOGNE-BILLANCOURT</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; <A HREF=3D"http://www.sycomore.fr" =
TARGET=3D"_blank">http://www.sycomore.fr</A></FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
------------------------------------------------------</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; &gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; --</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; =
------------------------------------------------------------------------=
----------------</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; Dipl.-Ing. Kilian =
Weniger&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
phone: (+49)(0)721-608 6415</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; Institute of =
Telematics&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; fax:&nbsp;&nbsp; (+49)(0)721-388097</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; Department of Computer =
Science&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; email: =
weniger@tm.uni-karlsruhe.de</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; University of =
Karlsruhe&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; homepage: <A HREF=3D"http://www.tm.uka.de/~weniger/" =
TARGET=3D"_blank">http://www.tm.uka.de/~weniger/</A></FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; D-76128 Karlsruhe</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; --</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Bruno HUSSON</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Tel : +33 1 46 08 61 92</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Fax : +33 1 46 08 61 10</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Standard : +33 1 46 08 61 00</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; e-mail:bruno.husson@sycomore.fr</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; -----------------</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; SYCOMORE - Groupe EADS</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Immeuble l'Etendard</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; 63 ter, Avenue Edouard VAILLANT</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; 92517 BOULOGNE-BILLANCOURT</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; <A HREF=3D"http://www.sycomore.fr" =
TARGET=3D"_blank">http://www.sycomore.fr</A></FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; =
------------------------------------------------------</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>-- </FONT>
<BR><FONT =
SIZE=3D2>---------------------------------------------------------------=
-------------------------</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Dipl.-Ing. Kilian =
Weniger&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
phone: (+49)(0)721-608 6415</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Institute of =
Telematics&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp; fax:&nbsp;&nbsp; (+49)(0)721-388097</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Department of Computer =
Science&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; email: =
weniger@tm.uni-karlsruhe.de</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>University of Karlsruhe =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; homepage: =
<A HREF=3D"http://www.tm.uka.de/~weniger/" =
TARGET=3D"_blank">http://www.tm.uka.de/~weniger/</A></FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>D-76128 Karlsruhe</FONT>
</P>

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From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Wed Feb 13 10:36:56 2002
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Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 08:47:10 -0500
To: Kilian Weniger <weniger@tm.uka.de>,
        Rajesh Bhairampally <rajesh@utdallas.edu>
From: Chip Elliott <celliott@BBN.COM>
Subject: Re: Asymmetric links
Cc: Jonas Nielsen <jonasn@diku.dk>, <manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil>
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It's probably worth worrying about asymmetric links, especially
when using spread spectrum radios.

Many years ago, an interesting paper described simulations of
spread spectrum packet radio networks, in which a surprisingly
large number of simplex links were found. For example, using
assumptions that seemed plausible to me, the authors calculated
that 1/4 to 1/3 of all possible links were simplex, in a few
more or less random laydowns.

I'm not competent to judge their findings, but I'd be most
interested in hearing from anyone that is!

"Computer-Aided Modeling of Spread Spectrum Packet Radio
Networks," E. Sousa, J. Silvester, T. Papavassiliou, IEEE
JSAC, 9-1, January 1991.


-- Chip

Chip Elliott
Principal Engineer, BBN


At 08:06 AM 2/13/02, Kilian Weniger wrote:

>You can have unidirectional links even if you have enough battery power:
>
>Firstly, if you use power control alogrithms. This is obvious.
>Secondly, interference leads to a decrease of the SNR at the receiver. If
>the interference is much higher at one of both receivers, the link
>may be unidirectional.
>
>I guess there are even more examples of situation, which result in
>unidirectional links.
>
>
>Kilian
>
>
>On Tue, 12 Feb 2002, Rajesh Bhairampally wrote:
>
> > I guess asymetry comes with the time; i mean, as the time passes, nodes
> > loose energy; different nodes may have different energy losses. so, there
> > can be a situation where a node can receive data  from another node, but
> > it doesn't has sufficient energy levels to send its data to the other
> > node. such situations create unidirectional links in the network which
> > originally started with bidirectional links.
> >
> > rajesh
> >
> >
> > On 12 Feb 2002, Jonas Nielsen wrote:
> >
> > > In some ways DSR is said to be superior to AODV because it supports
> > > asymmetric links. But in what scenarios are asymmetric links used. I
> > > can only see that either a system is (almost) symmetric or highly
> > > assymetric (e.g sattelite communications).
> > >
> >
> > Rajesh
> >
>
>--
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Dipl.-Ing. Kilian Weniger           phone: (+49)(0)721-608 6415
>Institute of Telematics             fax:   (+49)(0)721-388097
>Department of Computer Science      email: weniger@tm.uni-karlsruhe.de
>University of Karlsruhe             homepage: http://www.tm.uka.de/~weniger/
>D-76128 Karlsruhe



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To: Chip Elliott <celliott@BBN.COM>
Cc: Kilian Weniger <weniger@tm.uka.de>,
        Rajesh Bhairampally <rajesh@utdallas.edu>, <manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil>
Subject: Re: Asymmetric links
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	<5.0.2.1.2.20020213083337.00ab11d0@pop3.norton.antivirus>
From: Jonas Nielsen <jonasn@diku.dk>
Date: 13 Feb 2002 15:13:04 +0100
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Thanks for all the answers. What I really want to know is how often
simplex links is found in todays "personal" wireless network
standards. I'm particulary thinking of 802.11-based networks, but also
other technologies like Bluetooth. Any thougts ?



From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Wed Feb 13 11:26:11 2002
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From: Scott Corson <Corson@flarion.com>
To: "'Yih-Chun Hu'" <yihchun@cs.cmu.edu>,
        Joe Macker
	 <macker@itd.nrl.navy.mil>
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Subject: RE: AODV WG Last Call for Comments
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 09:31:39 -0500
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Yih-Chun,

The comments are late.  The WG last call closed last Friday and the draft is
with the IESG at this time.

Still thanks for the input and I will forward these to the ADs for their
consideration during IESG review.

Thanks,

-Scott

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Yih-Chun Hu [mailto:yihchun@cs.cmu.edu]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 6:58 PM
> To: Joe Macker
> Cc: manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil
> Subject: Re: AODV WG Last Call for Comments
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry these comments are late. These comments are for the WG 
> last call of
> aodv-10. This draft appears to be a substantial improvement in the
> definition of AODV, as it is more clearly and precisely specifies the
> protocol. I did find a few problems with the draft as it 
> stands, and would
> like to raise a couple points previously brought up on the list. 
> 
> As was mentioned on the list before by Erik Nordstrom (in Message-ID
> <Pine.GSO.4.21.0112131555350.10628-100000@hamberg.it.uu.se> 
> on December
> 13, 2001), Hello messages don't work with unidirectional links, since
> Hello messages can propogate over such links, but packets 
> can't flow in
> the reverse direction. 
> 
> Because of the use of NODE_TRAVERSAL_TIME, it seems 
> inconsistent to allow
> any node to hold a packet beyond NODE_TRAVERSAL_TIME (ie a 
> node buffering
> a packet for NODE_TRAVERSAL_TIME MUST drop the packet), and
> NODE_TRAVERSAL_TIME should not be a configurable parameter at any node
> (needs to be consistant network-wide).
> 
> Any cycle in the network which has aggregate latency 
> PATH_TRAVERSAL_TIME
> could cause the infinite looping of RREQ packets, and each 
> time the RREQ
> goes around this cycle, it would cause another flood of the entire
> network, subject to TTL constraints. PATH_TRAVERSAL_TIME 
> therefore should
> be conservatively set to NETWORK_NODES * NODE_TRAVERSAL_TIME. 
> 
> The definition of PATH_DISCOVERY_TIME in Section 10 is unparsable.
> 
> This draft does not seem to define a default RREQ_RETRIES, nor does it
> provide any guidance on how one might set that particular parameter. 
> 
> There may be a node X which has a very dynamic network on one 
> side of it
> and a very static network on the other side of it. It may be 
> possible for
> X to issue 2^31 sequence numbers on the active side between 
> new sequence
> numbers on the static side. This would cause the static side 
> to believe
> that all new sequence numbers were stale for quite a long 
> period of time,
> and possibly preclude routing to X. A more aggressive mechanism for
> dealing with wraparound is needed. 
> 
> Suppose some node Y has a route to X and sends packets over that route
> once per ACTIVE_ROUTE_TIMEOUT. If X reboots, and K sequential 
> data packets
> or corresponding RERRs are lost over the entire path from X 
> to Y, Y will
> be unable to find routes to X until the newly chosen sequence number
> becomes greater than Y's current sequence number. 
> 
> The draft should give some guidance about the types of 
> networks for which
> AODV is a suitable routing protocol.
> 
> The precursor list is only set in response to RREPs, but 
> RREQs serve as a
> form of RREP in that they create routing state. As a result, precursor
> lists SHOULD be set in the sender when an RREQ it propogates 
> is received. 
> 
> In Section 10, the draft allows a node to "possibly [reconfigure] the
> HELLO_INTERVAL." This is too vague to be in a specification. Allowing
> arbitrary changes to HELLO_INTERVAL is also problematic if a 
> node does not
> always boot to a consistant HELLO_INTERVAL. For example, if a 
> node X sets
> HELLO_INTERVAL to 10s, and advertises it, upstream neighbors 
> only require
> one HELLO within 30s. X reboots and need only wait 5 seconds before it
> starts participating in the protocol again. Nodes would no 
> longer be able
> to reach X. 
> 
> In Sec 6.2, the draft allows the receipt of AODV control packets to
> confirm that a neighbor is still there. Not only does this 
> suffer the same
> problem with unidirectional links as Hello packets, it also is
> ill-specified. The language in the draft can be interpreted 
> to allow an
> RREQ that has traversed multiple hops could be used to renew 
> the neighbor
> status of the source of the RREQ. 
> 
> 


From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Wed Feb 13 13:19:11 2002
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Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 11:13:47 -0500 (EST)
From: Prithwish Basu <pbasu@bu.edu>
To: Jonas Nielsen <jonasn@diku.dk>
cc: Chip Elliott <celliott@BBN.COM>, Kilian Weniger <weniger@tm.uka.de>,
        Rajesh Bhairampally <rajesh@utdallas.edu>, <manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil>
Subject: Re: Asymmetric links
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In our lab environment (and dept corridors) with 802.11 radios (cisco
aironet 350 series), we have observed occasional unidirectional links
between nodes which are on battery power (with APMD running) and those
which are on AC power. This happens at the lowest configurable power level
(1mW) usually.

This is not a systematic observation but just something which we have
observed sometimes.. I wonder if other people have experienced similar
behavior.

-Prithwish


On 13 Feb 2002, Jonas Nielsen wrote:

>
> Thanks for all the answers. What I really want to know is how often
> simplex links is found in todays "personal" wireless network
> standards. I'm particulary thinking of 802.11-based networks, but also
> other technologies like Bluetooth. Any thougts ?
>
>



From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Wed Feb 13 13:39:18 2002
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From: "Richard Miller" <richardmiller67@hotmail.com>
To: manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil
Subject: Re: Address Allocation with IPV6
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 16:31:42 +0000
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Hello list, hello Kilian,

   would it really be necessary to tie the IPv6 address to the hardware? 
Rather you could buy your IP address from your (Mobile IP) Service Provider 
and assign it to whatever device you are currently using. For IP addresses 
there is already a central registration, namely the IANA. Wouldn't this be 
the straightforward solution?

   Related to wired IPv6 SAA, it would still not be obsolete, because it is 
a convenient means for companies to configure their infrastructure network 
in a plug and play manner.

regards,
Richard

--- Original Message ---

Hello Djamal,

I have two comments on that:

Firstly, in your scenario routing would only work if every existing
device has an unique IPv6 address assigned by the manufacturer.
This is not the case today and even
if EVERY manufacturer would start doing so at some point of time in the
future (I don't see any such effort, yet), there are still
thousands of devices without addresses, that were sold before.
Furthermore, you would need some sort of central registration, as there is
for IEEE MAC-addresses. And even the MAC-addresses are not unique today
(some manufacturers sell devices with unregistered MAC-addresses; you can 
change
the MAC-address of some devices,...). So even in the case you would have
this central registry, you probably want to have a backup solution to
guarantee unique addresses.

By the way, if you argue against IPv6 SAA in ad hoc networks, you
could also argue against IPv6 SAA in general (in wired LANs). You
wouldn't need that, too, if all (wired) network devices would have unique,
pre-assigned IPv6 addresses.

Secondly, a hierarchy is established by the architecture described in the
paper, which can be used by routing protocols to achieve an improved
scalability (route aggregation...). You wouldn't have this with
preassigned addresses.


Kilian Weniger


On Tue, 12 Feb 2002, MEDDOUR Djamal Eddine thesard FTRD/DAC/LAN wrote:


>hi all
>I am reading a paper which talk about Address Allocation with IPV6 (IPv6
>Autoconfiguration in Large Scale Mobile Ad Hoc Networks). do you think
>really that a same scheme is needed?. in IPV6 we have a huge number of IP
>address, we can attribute statically one adresse by node (when we buy a
>terminal we can buy an IP address with it).
>any comments ?
>
>


-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Dipl.-Ing. Kilian Weniger phone: (+49)(0)721-608 6415 Institute of 
Telematics fax: (+49)(0)721-388097 Department of Computer Science email: 
weniger@tm.uni-karlsruhe.de University of Karlsruhe homepage: 
http://www.tm.uka.de/~weniger/ D-76128 Karlsruhe





_________________________________________________________________
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From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Wed Feb 13 13:48:34 2002
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Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 09:00:15 -0800
From: Mineo Takai <mineo@cs.ucla.edu>
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Hello Jonas,

For unicast communication, there should not be a simplex link in 802.11-based
networks, because the MAC protocol requires the receiver to transmit ACK back to
the sender upon successful data reception. This is regardless of the RTS/CTS
option.

Mineo

Jonas Nielsen wrote:
> 
> Thanks for all the answers. What I really want to know is how often
> simplex links is found in todays "personal" wireless network
> standards. I'm particulary thinking of 802.11-based networks, but also
> other technologies like Bluetooth. Any thougts ?


From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Wed Feb 13 14:37:48 2002
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From: "Mesut Günes" <mesut@i4.informatik.rwth-aachen.de>
To: <manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil>
Subject: Video/Multimedia transmission over ad-hoc networks
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 18:20:45 +0100
Organization: Lehrstuhl für Informatik 4, RWTH-Aachen
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Hello Group,

I am searching for material about transmitting video over mobile
multihop ad-hoc networks. Can someone help me with advice or papers?


With best regards
Mesut Günes

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From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Wed Feb 13 15:16:27 2002
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From: mread@hns.com (Matt Read)
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In-Reply-To: Prithwish Basu <pbasu@bu.edu>
        "Re: Asymmetric links" (Feb 13, 11:13)
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Prithwish,

Your description is so familiar that I had to check to make sure you 
don't work here were I work. :-)

We run at 1mW or 5mW, Cisco 350's, "hallway" network, usually AC but 
sometimes battery, and we occasionally see unidirectional links.  It 
seems random, i.e. not always reproducible, but once it happens the 
condition usually persists until we move the node.  This confirms the
idea that it's due to asymmetrical radio propagation/interference.

Everyone,

AODV breaks when this happens.  As a relative newcomer to AODV, 
please pardon me if this has already been considered, but could the 
HELLO message include a list of the Neighbors from which the sender 
has recently heard HELLO's?  Then if a node hears a HELLO in which 
it does not find itself listed, it could assume there is no link and 
not try to send directly to that node (sending RREQ's instead).  
(There will be scalability and other issues, of course.)

- Matt


On Feb 13, 11:13, Prithwish Basu wrote:
> Subject: Re: Asymmetric links
> 
> In our lab environment (and dept corridors) with 802.11 radios (cisco
> aironet 350 series), we have observed occasional unidirectional links
> between nodes which are on battery power (with APMD running) and those
> which are on AC power. This happens at the lowest configurable power level
> (1mW) usually.
> 
> This is not a systematic observation but just something which we have
> observed sometimes.. I wonder if other people have experienced similar
> behavior.
> 
> -Prithwish
> 

________________________________________________________________________
MattRead  mread@hns.com  858/452-4608  HughesNetworkSystems  SanDiego,CA


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Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 21:00:47 +0200
From: Manel Guerrero Zapata <manel.guerrero-zapata@nokia.com>
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To: ext Scott Corson <Corson@flarion.com>
CC: "'Yih-Chun Hu'" <yihchun@cs.cmu.edu>, Joe Macker <macker@itd.nrl.navy.mil>,
        manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil
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Hi :)

I know... I know... I'm also late. :(

But, if you are interested in more. Here it comes a couple of comments:


COMPARING SEQUENCE NUMBERS
==========================

In 6.1 (Maintaining Sequence Numbers), there is a new paragraph about how
sequence numbers should be compared. The main idea behind this is that if
a sequence number overflows, rounds back to zero. So sequence numbers might
be 'reused'. It is like the big hand of a clock.
Therefore, to check if a destination sequence number received in an AODV
message is stale or not, it checks if it is in the half after or in the half
before of the clock's hand.
The very same concept that makes that if you know that it's 5 o'clock and your
watch says that it is 4 o'clock, you will think you watch is one hour late
(but you never think that it is 11 hours advanced).

That is not a very bad assumption, until somebody wants to send a packet to us.
If it does not have an active route and does not know no sequence number it
will use '0' (acording to 6.3 (Generating Route Requests)).

It is bad because when we receive it, we have to do the following (from 6.1):
       "Immediately before a destination node originates a RREP in
        response to a RREQ, it MUST update its own sequence number to
        the maximum of its current sequence number and the destination
        sequence number in the RREQ packet."

In the example of the watch, zero would be 12 o'clock. In the new paragraph
'maximum' should be adapted to the watch concept (so we would check
if the sdn in the RREQ is stale compared with our own sequence number).
But that also means that if it is 7 o'clock and the RREQ comes with 12
o'clock I'll update to 12 o'clock (thinking that my clock is 5 hours late).
Which, of course, makes no sense.

The problem comes, not from the 'clock alike' system, but from the fact
that nobody should tell me which is my sequence number. Especially when
I could easely keep track of it.

My proposed solution would be (again):

8<--------------------------------------------------
* Every time you modify your sequence number, you store it somewhere.
* When you reboot you read the value, and start to operate
	(who wants to wait for DELETE_PERIOD (15 seconds) ! )
* You increment your own sequence number in the following situations:
	- Before generating a RREP (being you the final destination)
	- Before sending a Hello (this can be considered as a specific
		case of the previos situation)
	- Before originating a RREQ flood (as it is said in 8.1)
* You don't update your destination sequence number believing in what
	others say. You _know_ which is your sequence number.
-------------------------------------------------->8


DELETE PERIOD
=============

The default value has changed:

   "DELETE_PERIOD = K * max (ACTIVE_ROUTE_TIMEOUT, HELLO_INTERVAL)
	(K = 5 is recommended)."

But then, the rest of the text about delete period seems quite contradictory:
K seems to play the role of ALLOWED_HELLO_LOSS (although it has a bigger
value). But then it should be: max(A_R_T, K * H_I) to make sense with:

   "If Hello messages are used, then the
    ACTIVE_ROUTE_TIMEOUT parameter value MUST be more than the
    value (ALLOWED_HELLO_LOSS * HELLO_INTERVAL)."



Best regards,

	Manel Guerrero Zapata



ext Scott Corson wrote:

> Yih-Chun,
> 
> The comments are late.  The WG last call closed last Friday and the draft is
> with the IESG at this time.
> 
> Still thanks for the input and I will forward these to the ADs for their
> consideration during IESG review.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> -Scott




From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Wed Feb 13 16:12:33 2002
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Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 14:06:44 -0500 (EST)
From: Prithwish Basu <pbasu@bu.edu>
To: Matt Read <mread@hns.com>
cc: <manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil>
Subject: Re: Asymmetric links
In-Reply-To: <020213101533.ZM16432@sds14.hns.com>
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Matt,

Since 802.11 needs an ACK at the MAC layer for a *unicast* pkt, a
unidirectional link won't show up at a higher layer. However, it is indeed
possible (as both of us have observed) for broadcast HELLO messages. (A
always hears B's broadcast but B never hears A's broadcast when A and B
are at certain fixed positions in space)

And yes, the condition does persist at times until one moves the node.

-Prithwish

On Wed, 13 Feb 2002, Matt Read wrote:

> Prithwish,
>
> Your description is so familiar that I had to check to make sure you
> don't work here were I work. :-)
>
> We run at 1mW or 5mW, Cisco 350's, "hallway" network, usually AC but
> sometimes battery, and we occasionally see unidirectional links.  It
> seems random, i.e. not always reproducible, but once it happens the
> condition usually persists until we move the node.  This confirms the
> idea that it's due to asymmetrical radio propagation/interference.
>
> Everyone,
>
> AODV breaks when this happens.  As a relative newcomer to AODV,
> please pardon me if this has already been considered, but could the
> HELLO message include a list of the Neighbors from which the sender
> has recently heard HELLO's?  Then if a node hears a HELLO in which
> it does not find itself listed, it could assume there is no link and
> not try to send directly to that node (sending RREQ's instead).
> (There will be scalability and other issues, of course.)
>
> - Matt
>
>
> On Feb 13, 11:13, Prithwish Basu wrote:
> > Subject: Re: Asymmetric links
> >
> > In our lab environment (and dept corridors) with 802.11 radios (cisco
> > aironet 350 series), we have observed occasional unidirectional links
> > between nodes which are on battery power (with APMD running) and those
> > which are on AC power. This happens at the lowest configurable power level
> > (1mW) usually.
> >
> > This is not a systematic observation but just something which we have
> > observed sometimes.. I wonder if other people have experienced similar
> > behavior.
> >
> > -Prithwish
> >
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> MattRead  mread@hns.com  858/452-4608  HughesNetworkSystems  SanDiego,CA
>



From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Wed Feb 13 16:26:18 2002
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To: Mahesh Marina <mmarina@ececs.uc.edu>
cc: "'ogier@erg.sri.com'" <ogier@erg.sri.com>,
        "Samir R. Das" <sdas@ececs.uc.edu>, manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil
Reply-To: ogier@erg.sri.com
From: ogier@erg.sri.com
Subject: Re: performance comparaison between Ad Hoc routing protocols 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 07 Feb 2002 11:41:19 EST."
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On Thu, 7 Feb 2002 Mahesh Marina wrote:
 
> Your simulation results for AODV somehow were way off from what I have
> observed in the past. I was one of the people involved in the development
> of AODV code for ns2. 
> 
> You mention that the link-layer notification was turned off in your
> evaluations. I assumed that HELLOs were instead used for link
> detection/failure in AODV as well and looked at the piece of code for
> handling HELLOs. 

> I found that neighbor deletion (and therefore, link failure
> detection) was commented out inadvertently, perhaps during
> debugging. As most of our performance studies used link-layer feedback,
> this bug didn't show up. So, I was wondering whether AODV results would be
> same without this bug.

I reran the ns-2 simulations for AODV with the above fix,
which improved the performance of AODV substantially in the 
mobile scenarios (but not in the non-mobile scenarios).
To ensure fairness with TBRPF and OLSR, I also commented out
the following code in AODV so that no protocol is allowed
to retrieve packets from the interface queue (ifqueue):

       // Not sure whether this is the right thing to do
       Packet *pkt;
       while((pkt = ifqueue->filter(ih->saddr()))) {
			drop(pkt, DROP_RTR_MAC_CALLBACK);

(The above comment is by one of the AODV programmers, not me.)

The simulation results can be found at the TBRPF web site: 
http://www.erg.sri.com/projects/tbrpf/

The results are summarized below.  Comments are welcome.
Note that TBRPF code for ns-2.1b8 is now available.

Protocols compared:

   - AODV code for ns-2.1b8
     Available from http://www.cs.ucsb.edu/~eroyer/aodv.html

   - TBRPF code for ns-2.1b8
     Available from http://www.erg.sri.com/projects/tbrpf/sourcecode.html
     Uses the same 'C' code as our Linux implementation

   - OLSR code for ns-2.1b7
     Available from http://hipercom.inria.fr/olsr/
     Bug affecting packet size was fixed.

   - In all protocols, link-layer failure notification was NOT used, and 
     packets could not be retrieved from the link layer (interface queue). 

Simulation model:

  - ns-2 version 2.1b8
  - WaveLAN IEEE 802.11 MAC with rate 2Mb/s and range 250m
  - 50 and 100 nodes
  - Two area sizes: 670m x 670m and 1500m x 300m
  - Mobility model: No mobility, and random waypoint model with 0 pause 
    time and maximum speed 20 m/s.
  - 20 simultaneous CBR traffic streams:
    - Source and destination of each stream are selected randomly 
    - Duration of each stream is 30 seconds
    - Size of each data packet is 512 bytes
    - Packet generation rate per stream is increased from 2 to 8 packets/s
  - Each simulation was run for 500 simulated seconds.

Summary of results:

  - In every scenario, TBRPF achieved a higher delivery percentage (up to 
    15% higher) than OLSR.  TBRPF also achieved a higher delivery percentage 
    (up to 15% higher) than AODV in all scenarios with no mobility, and in 
    all scenarios using the square area (670x670) with the lower packet rates 
    (2 and 4 packets/s).  For the long rectangular area (1500x300), AODV 
    achieved a higher delivery percentage (up to 5% higher) than TBRPF.

  - In every scenario, TBRPF generated less routing control traffic
    than the other protocols: up to 60% less than OLSR and up to 48% 
    less than AODV.  This is despite the fact that TBRPF sends
    HELLOs twice as frequently as OLSR.

  - In every scenario, TBRPF used the shortest paths (except nearly shortest 
    in some cases with the higher packet rates).  In every scenario, AODV 
    used paths that were 12-20% longer on average than TBRPF.

  - TBRPF usually had the best or nearly best delay.  

Remarks:

  - This study did not use link-layer failure notification.  It is important 
    to also compare the protocols with link-layer notification, since this 
    allows one to achieve a delivery fraction close to 100%.

  - A comparison of TBRPF with AODV using link-layer notification can
    also be found at the TBRPF web site.  That comparison also compares
    the protocols with 40 sources (which gives TBRPF more advantage).

  - A routing protocol that generates less control traffic and uses 
    shorter paths:

    - uses less energy,
    - is more likely to scale to a larger number of nodes,
    - is more likely to perform well in lower bandwidth radios such
      as those used by the military.


-----------------------
Richard Ogier
Sr. Research Engineer
SRI International
333 Ravenswood Ave.
Menlo Park, CA 94025
Tel: 650-859-4216
Fax: 650-859-4812
Email: ogier@erg.sri.com
------------------------


From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Wed Feb 13 17:41:25 2002
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To: mread@hns.com (Matt Read)
cc: manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil, ogier@erg.sri.com
Reply-To: ogier@erg.sri.com
From: ogier@erg.sri.com
Subject: Re: Asymmetric links 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 13 Feb 2002 10:15:32 PST."
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Matt,

> Everyone,
> 
> AODV breaks when this happens.  As a relative newcomer to AODV, 
> please pardon me if this has already been considered, but could the 
> HELLO message include a list of the Neighbors from which the sender 
> has recently heard HELLO's?  Then if a node hears a HELLO in which 
> it does not find itself listed, it could assume there is no link and 
> not try to send directly to that node (sending RREQ's instead).  
> (There will be scalability and other issues, of course.)
> 
> - Matt

Yes, by including a list of all neighbors in each HELLO, a node
can detect when a bidirectional link has become unidirectional.
This is what OSPF and OLSR do.  But a more efficient way is to
use differential HELLOs (as in TBRPF), so that each HELLO contains
only the neighbors whose states have recently changed.
Perhaps AODV should also use differential HELLOs.

Richard




From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Wed Feb 13 19:29:49 2002
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Subject: Re: Asymmetric links (+AODV-UU 0.2)
From: Erik =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Nordstr=F6m?= <erno3431@student.uu.se>
To: Matt Read <mread@hns.com>
Cc: MANET LIST <manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil>
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	<020213101533.ZM16432@sds14.hns.com>
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Hi Matt + others.

Comments below.

On Wed, 2002-02-13 at 19:15, Matt Read wrote:
> Prithwish,
> 
> Your description is so familiar that I had to check to make sure you 
> don't work here were I work. :-)
> 
> We run at 1mW or 5mW, Cisco 350's, "hallway" network, usually AC but 
> sometimes battery, and we occasionally see unidirectional links.  It 
> seems random, i.e. not always reproducible, but once it happens the 
> condition usually persists until we move the node.  This confirms the
> idea that it's due to asymmetrical radio propagation/interference.
> 
> Everyone,
> 
> AODV breaks when this happens.  As a relative newcomer to AODV, 
> please pardon me if this has already been considered, but could the 
> HELLO message include a list of the Neighbors from which the sender 
> has recently heard HELLO's?  Then if a node hears a HELLO in which 
> it does not find itself listed, it could assume there is no link and 
> not try to send directly to that node (sending RREQ's instead).  
> (There will be scalability and other issues, of course.)
> 

I have also experienced unidirectional links during testing of my AODV
implementation. My implementation already include the feature/idea you
are requesting. The code, which just has been released in version 0.2,
can be downloaded from http://www.docs.uu.se/~henrikl/aodv/.

/Erik Nordström





From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Wed Feb 13 19:56:42 2002
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Subject: Difficulty implementing a gateway node for a peer-to-peer ad hoc network
 using AODV routing
To: manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil
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Hi all,

I am trying to connect a network of ad hoc nodes (running in peer-to-peer
mode using AODV routing) to our company intranet using a 'gateway node'.
This 'gateway node' contains 2 network interfaces :
- 1 wireless (802.11) for speaking to the ad hoc nodes (hereafter referred
to as GN-eth-802.11), and
- 1 wired (802.3 i.e. regular ethernet) for speaking to the company
intranet (hereafter referred to as GN-eth-802.3).

Below is a rough ASCII sketch of the arrangement :

                                                                 'gateway
node'
     -----------       802.11
----------------------------------------------------          802.3
--------------------------------
     | Client |    <---------->   |  GN-eth-802.11   |   GN -eth-802.3   |
<---------->   |  Company Intranet   |
     -----------
----------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------

After booting the gateway node and a client node (but before enabling the
AODV routing), I can ping from the client node to all of the following
successfully i.e.

Client   --------------------->  GN-eth-802.11
(successful)
Client   ------------------------------------------------->  GN-eth-802.3
(successful)
Client
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------->

Company intranet    (successful)


However, after starting up AODV, the client node can still reach the
wireless interface of the gateway node (GN-eth-802.11), but can no longer
reach the wired interface of the gateway node (GN-eth-802.3) or the company
intranet i.e.

Client   --------------------->  GN-eth-802.11
(successful)
Client   -------------------------------------XXX--------->  GN-eth-802.3
(NOTsuccessful)
Client
-------------------------------------XXX---------------------------------------------------->

Company intranet    (NOT successful)


It seems that as soon as I 'insmod' the AODV routing module, it breaks the
connection to the wired segment fo the network.  I looked at the kernel IP
routing table (using the 'route' command) and can see that the AODV module
has updated the kernel IP routing table (which is to be expected for the
wireless 802.11 ethX interface).  However, after 'insmod'ing the AODV
routing module, some of the routing entries for the wired 802.3 ethX
interface also seem to have been modified / deleted.  I have tried looking
at the differences and manually adding some of the desired route entries
using the 'route add' command, but have so far been unsuccessful in
reconnecting the wired part of the network once AODV is running.

So finally ;-) , my questions are :

- has anyone successfully configured a 'gateway node' with both wired and
wireless network interfaces, and where AODV routing is used for the ad hoc
nodes running in peer-to peer mode ?

- is this a configuration issue, or does installing the AODV module change
something else in addition to modifying the kernel IP routing table ?

- is there another (better or easier) way of implementing a gateway node
for connecting a wired network to a wireless network running AODV,
OPERATING IN PEER-TO-PEER MODE (since the ad hoc nodes are running in
peer-to-peer mode, I can't just use a COTS wireless router operating in
infrastructure mode) ?

Any advice / information much appreciated.

Thanks.

- Piers.











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> I have seen Charlie pull out the terminology draft at least a 
> few times! :-)  Why can't 
> some WG chair in SeaMoby or MANET adopt it as WG draft?

I cannot see this being a MANET draft, far too many non-MANET concepts
involved.

As far as Seamoby effectively bridging between MIP and MANET, it seems
reasonable.  IMO the best-baked architectural notion within Seamoby is the
notion of an AR, its discovery and possible subsequent CT between ARs.  The
AR stands at the edge of a domain, and mobile hosts (MIP) or routers (MANET
or MONET?) seeking access to the domain do so via an AR...the AR and
consequently Seamoby forms a natural bridge.

As for the terminology draft, if included in Seamoby, IMO it needs to be
simplified and clarified big time.  For example, it needs deletion of
irrelevant/unclear IP architectural elements (e.g. APs, ANs, ANRs, ANGs) and
all references thereto/implications thereof. 
* APs are layer 2 elements (need I say more?)
* Access Network Routers (ANR) are IP routers (presumably fixed)...Are these
notably different from non-access network routers?  Perhaps they run a
different routing algorithm, but what of it?  Perhaps they do not!
* Moreover, what is an Access Network?...the doc says it's an IP network
full of ANRs?  This is a bit circular!  If the ANRs are normal IP routers
(and they well could be), then the definition of the AN is completely and
suddenly vacuous...POOF!!! ;-)
* Access Network Gateway (ANG) is just another name for a gateway router.

To my way of thinking, at IP such an "access network" is just a routed
domain, accessed at the edge via access routers and interfaced to the core
thru some gateway router functionality.  No new terms are (yet) needed.  If
you think differently, either you have truly invented something new and I'd
love to hear about it, or you are probably too buried in L2 specifics to see
clearly. ;-)

My 2 cents...for starters, just delete the whole notion of an Access Network
until this can be meaningfully defined at IP layer and differentiated from
existing IP terminology.  Presently, whereever the text addresses the issue
of an "access network", the related definitions (e.g. relating to handoff)
break down as they implicitly assume certain L2 architectures and
capabilities.  These assumptions do not apply in the general case of IP
mobility or hold for all L2 technologies.  There's plenty more that could be
said as well.

But, without wasting more time, on the whole I think this document is mostly
a waste of time.  Whilst specific terminology drafts may be of value (such
as the recently suggested MIP/Security Terminology harmonization draft), IMO
these all-things-to-all-people drafts try to overreach and are generally not
worth bother.

-Scott

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From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Thu Feb 14 00:22:06 2002
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Hi,

I have seen Charlie pull out the terminology draft at least a few times! :-)  Why can't 
some WG chair in SeaMoby or MANET adopt it as WG draft?

http://people.nokia.net/~charliep/txt/seamoby/term.txt

It seems that many times arguments are over terminology.  IMO, I would like to 
the SeaMoby WG become a bridge between MANET and MIP technologies, 
especially with respect to AR discovery and CT.  This terminology draft would make
a very nice addition to the SeaMoby WG draft list.  

Best regards,

Phil


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From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Thu Feb 14 00:22:09 2002
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Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 08:47:06 +0100
From: Frank Kargl <frank.kargl@informatik.uni-ulm.de>
Organization: University of Ulm, Germany
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Subject: Re: [Seamoby] Terminology Draft Needed
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Hi Charlie,

"Charles E. Perkins" wrote: 
> This is a good idea.  Where can we find a list of the acceptable
> security terminology to incorporate into the terminology draft?

There are many such compilations in the web, e.g.:
http://www.securitypanel.org/glossary.html
http://www.certmag.com/issues/jul01/securityterms.cfm
http://www.setsolutions.com/security.htm

As MANET and Security is one of my focal points of interest, I would
gladly volunteer to compile such a security glossary. The important
point is how extensive such a glossary should be. Either we focus on
terms that are directly related to MANETs/Mobility or we try to compile
a glossary on everything that relates to security in general. I think
that only the first approach makes sense.

Ciao ... Frank

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
 Frank Kargl          Multimedia Computing, University of Ulm, Germany
 Mail:frank.kargl@informatik.uni-ulm.de http://www.uni-ulm.de/~fkargl/
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
   Use the SOURCE, Luke !  I feel a great disturbance in the SOURCE.
            But beware of the Microsoft side of the SOURCE !

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From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Thu Feb 14 00:22:14 2002
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Hello folks,

This is a good idea.  Where can we find a list of the acceptable
security terminology to incorporate into the terminology draft?

Regards,
Charlie P.


> "Pat R. Calhoun" wrote:
> 
> 
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> I brought this topic up with the ADs again yesterday, and there seems
> to be agreement that such a document is necessary. However, it would
> be useful if this document also included the security terminology
> that we use, since it conflicts with some of the terms used WGs in
> other areas (e.g. IPSec).
> 
> PatC
> 
> - -----Original Message-----
> From: Phil Neumiller [mailto:pneumiller@meshnetworks.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 6:39 AM
> To: manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil; seamoby@ietf.org
> Subject: [Seamoby] Terminology Draft Needed
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I have seen Charlie pull out the terminology draft at least a few
> times! :-)  Why can't
> some WG chair in SeaMoby or MANET adopt it as WG draft?
> 
> http://people.nokia.net/~charliep/txt/seamoby/term.txt
> 
> It seems that many times arguments are over terminology.  IMO, I
> would like to
> the SeaMoby WG become a bridge between MANET and MIP technologies,
> especially with respect to AR discovery and CT.  This terminology
> draft would make a very nice addition to the SeaMoby WG draft list.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Phil
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Seamoby mailing list
> Seamoby@ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/seamoby
> 
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: PGPfreeware 7.0.3 for non-commercial use <http://www.pgp.com>
> 
> iQA/AwUBPEWp+DN1fXKoxmisEQKpKwCgsuQlnVlOxREcl5hKPmD76ZrjI74AoLNh
> bL1hxFHUR1waVYM8pGeJbZW/
> =JrHd
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Thu Feb 14 06:45:48 2002
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From: Kilian Weniger <weniger@tm.uka.de>
To: Richard Miller <richardmiller67@hotmail.com>
cc: <manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil>
Subject: Re: Address Allocation with IPV6
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Hello Richard,

even if you would have this possiblity of buying a permanent IP address,
you probably also want a independent plug-and-play solution for
spontaneous networking scenarios without internet connection.
(Independent in terms of being able to communicate
in an ad hoc network even if you don't have a contract with a Service
Provider.)

By the way, I don't think that it's a good solution, that users have to reconfigure
the IP stack each time they change their devices. At least they should
have an seperate IP address for each device, which would be quite
expensive and you would have to remember several IP addresses.

And you also don't have the possiblity of hierarchical routing
within the ad hoc network with pre-assigned addresses.

I would prefer a self-organizing, autoconfiguring and
independent (from any commercial organizations) ad hoc network.
If I want to access the internet via Mobile IP,
I get a routable address assigned by the FA (e.g. as
described in draft-wakikawa-manet-globalv6-00.txt) and, potentially, use
the IP address bought from a Mobile IP Service Provider as Home Address. This
would be a device-independent plug-and-play solution for internet access.


regards,

Kilian


On Wed, 13 Feb 2002, Richard Miller wrote:

> Hello list, hello Kilian,
>
>    would it really be necessary to tie the IPv6 address to the hardware?
> Rather you could buy your IP address from your (Mobile IP) Service Provider
> and assign it to whatever device you are currently using. For IP addresses
> there is already a central registration, namely the IANA. Wouldn't this be
> the straightforward solution?
>
>    Related to wired IPv6 SAA, it would still not be obsolete, because it is
> a convenient means for companies to configure their infrastructure network
> in a plug and play manner.
>
> regards,
> Richard
>
> --- Original Message ---
>
> Hello Djamal,
>
> I have two comments on that:
>
> Firstly, in your scenario routing would only work if every existing
> device has an unique IPv6 address assigned by the manufacturer.
> This is not the case today and even
> if EVERY manufacturer would start doing so at some point of time in the
> future (I don't see any such effort, yet), there are still
> thousands of devices without addresses, that were sold before.
> Furthermore, you would need some sort of central registration, as there is
> for IEEE MAC-addresses. And even the MAC-addresses are not unique today
> (some manufacturers sell devices with unregistered MAC-addresses; you can
> change
> the MAC-address of some devices,...). So even in the case you would have
> this central registry, you probably want to have a backup solution to
> guarantee unique addresses.
>
> By the way, if you argue against IPv6 SAA in ad hoc networks, you
> could also argue against IPv6 SAA in general (in wired LANs). You
> wouldn't need that, too, if all (wired) network devices would have unique,
> pre-assigned IPv6 addresses.
>
> Secondly, a hierarchy is established by the architecture described in the
> paper, which can be used by routing protocols to achieve an improved
> scalability (route aggregation...). You wouldn't have this with
> preassigned addresses.
>
>
> Kilian Weniger
>
>
> On Tue, 12 Feb 2002, MEDDOUR Djamal Eddine thesard FTRD/DAC/LAN wrote:
>
>
> >hi all
> >I am reading a paper which talk about Address Allocation with IPV6 (IPv6
> >Autoconfiguration in Large Scale Mobile Ad Hoc Networks). do you think
> >really that a same scheme is needed?. in IPV6 we have a huge number of IP
> >address, we can attribute statically one adresse by node (when we buy a
> >terminal we can buy an IP address with it).
> >any comments ?
> >
> >
>
>
>

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dipl.-Ing. Kilian Weniger           phone: (+49)(0)721-608 6415
Institute of Telematics             fax:   (+49)(0)721-388097
Department of Computer Science      email: weniger@tm.uni-karlsruhe.de
University of Karlsruhe 	    homepage: http://www.tm.uka.de/~weniger/
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From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Thu Feb 14 06:45:57 2002
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Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 10:41:09 +0100 (CET)
From: Kilian Weniger <weniger@tm.uka.de>
To: <manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil>
Subject: Minutes of 52nd IETF MANET WG meeting?
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Hi all,

Why are there no minutes and/or slides available of the last (52nd) IETF
MANET meeting?

  http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/01dec/index.html


Kilian Weniger

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dipl.-Ing. Kilian Weniger           phone: (+49)(0)721-608 6415
Institute of Telematics             fax:   (+49)(0)721-388097
Department of Computer Science      email: weniger@tm.uni-karlsruhe.de
University of Karlsruhe 	    homepage: http://www.tm.uka.de/~weniger/
D-76128 Karlsruhe





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From: JMG <jean-mickael.guerin@6wind.com>
Organization: 6WIND
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To: manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil
Subject: Re: Difficulty implementing a gateway node for a peer-to-peer ad hoc 
 networkusing AODV routing
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Hello,
It seems that the problem is how to inject a defaut route for ad hoc nodes to reach a fixed network.
Is this question has already  been discussed in the working group ?
In Piers's case, is there a way to configure AODV on the gateway node to advertise "I'm the default
gateway" ?
Is it specific to on-demand routing protocols or is it the same for proactive protocols like OLSR ?

thanks
Jean-Mickaël

pohanlon@hns.com wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I am trying to connect a network of ad hoc nodes (running in peer-to-peer
> mode using AODV routing) to our company intranet using a 'gateway node'.
> This 'gateway node' contains 2 network interfaces :
> - 1 wireless (802.11) for speaking to the ad hoc nodes (hereafter referred
> to as GN-eth-802.11), and
> - 1 wired (802.3 i.e. regular ethernet) for speaking to the company
> intranet (hereafter referred to as GN-eth-802.3).
>
> Below is a rough ASCII sketch of the arrangement :
>
>                                                                  'gateway
> node'
>      -----------       802.11
> ----------------------------------------------------          802.3
> --------------------------------
>      | Client |    <---------->   |  GN-eth-802.11   |   GN -eth-802.3   |
> <---------->   |  Company Intranet   |
>      -----------
> ----------------------------------------------------
> --------------------------------
>
> After booting the gateway node and a client node (but before enabling the
> AODV routing), I can ping from the client node to all of the following
> successfully i.e.
>
> Client   --------------------->  GN-eth-802.11
> (successful)
> Client   ------------------------------------------------->  GN-eth-802.3
> (successful)
> Client
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------->
>
> Company intranet    (successful)
>
> However, after starting up AODV, the client node can still reach the
> wireless interface of the gateway node (GN-eth-802.11), but can no longer
> reach the wired interface of the gateway node (GN-eth-802.3) or the company
> intranet i.e.
>
> Client   --------------------->  GN-eth-802.11
> (successful)
> Client   -------------------------------------XXX--------->  GN-eth-802.3
> (NOTsuccessful)
> Client
> -------------------------------------XXX---------------------------------------------------->
>
> Company intranet    (NOT successful)
>
> It seems that as soon as I 'insmod' the AODV routing module, it breaks the
> connection to the wired segment fo the network.  I looked at the kernel IP
> routing table (using the 'route' command) and can see that the AODV module
> has updated the kernel IP routing table (which is to be expected for the
> wireless 802.11 ethX interface).  However, after 'insmod'ing the AODV
> routing module, some of the routing entries for the wired 802.3 ethX
> interface also seem to have been modified / deleted.  I have tried looking
> at the differences and manually adding some of the desired route entries
> using the 'route add' command, but have so far been unsuccessful in
> reconnecting the wired part of the network once AODV is running.
>
> So finally ;-) , my questions are :
>
> - has anyone successfully configured a 'gateway node' with both wired and
> wireless network interfaces, and where AODV routing is used for the ad hoc
> nodes running in peer-to peer mode ?
>
> - is this a configuration issue, or does installing the AODV module change
> something else in addition to modifying the kernel IP routing table ?
>
> - is there another (better or easier) way of implementing a gateway node
> for connecting a wired network to a wireless network running AODV,
> OPERATING IN PEER-TO-PEER MODE (since the ad hoc nodes are running in
> peer-to-peer mode, I can't just use a COTS wireless router operating in
> infrastructure mode) ?
>
> Any advice / information much appreciated.
>
> Thanks.
>
> - Piers.



From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Thu Feb 14 07:11:58 2002
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Subject: Re: Difficulty implementing a gateway node for a peer-to-peer ad
	hoc network using AODV routing
From: Erik =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Nordstr=F6m?= <erno3431@student.uu.se>
To: pohanlon@hns.com
Cc: MANET LIST <manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil>
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Hello Piers.

AODV currently does not define a way to do "Internet gatewaying". The
main problem has to do with the way subnets should be handled in an
ad-hoc network. The AODV draft says that nodes should be able to have IP
addresses belonging to different subnets, but they should still be able
to communicate directly. This clearly breaks the subnet idea of
"traditional" IP routing and makes Internet gatewaying impossible.
Apparently, the way to do this is a MANET problem, something not decided
on yet. However, there exists a few drafts on how to connect an ad-hoc
network to the Internet.

I don't know which implementation of AODV you are using, but it sounds
like "kernel-aodv". I don't think that implementation has any Internet
gateway support.

If you want to experiment, you could try the AODV-UU implementation
(version 0.2) which has experimental Internet gateway support. This
feature is implemented with the restriction that nodes should be
configured with IP-addresses on the same subnet.

http://www.docs.uu.se/~henrikl/aodv/

Otherwise I would recommend using LUNAR, which is a bit more robust, but
are created for smaller networks of up to around 10 nodes.

http://www.docs.uu.se/docs/research/projects/selnet/lunar/

I hope this answers your questions.

/Erik Nordström, 

Uppsala University.



On Thu, 2002-02-14 at 00:06, pohanlon@hns.com wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I am trying to connect a network of ad hoc nodes (running in peer-to-peer
> mode using AODV routing) to our company intranet using a 'gateway node'.
> This 'gateway node' contains 2 network interfaces :
> - 1 wireless (802.11) for speaking to the ad hoc nodes (hereafter referred
> to as GN-eth-802.11), and
> - 1 wired (802.3 i.e. regular ethernet) for speaking to the company
> intranet (hereafter referred to as GN-eth-802.3).
> 
> Below is a rough ASCII sketch of the arrangement :
> 
>                                                                  'gateway
> node'
>      -----------       802.11
> ----------------------------------------------------          802.3
> --------------------------------
>      | Client |    <---------->   |  GN-eth-802.11   |   GN -eth-802.3   |
> <---------->   |  Company Intranet   |
>      -----------
> ----------------------------------------------------
> --------------------------------
> 
> After booting the gateway node and a client node (but before enabling the
> AODV routing), I can ping from the client node to all of the following
> successfully i.e.
> 
> Client   --------------------->  GN-eth-802.11
> (successful)
> Client   ------------------------------------------------->  GN-eth-802.3
> (successful)
> Client
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------->
> 
> Company intranet    (successful)
> 
> 
> However, after starting up AODV, the client node can still reach the
> wireless interface of the gateway node (GN-eth-802.11), but can no longer
> reach the wired interface of the gateway node (GN-eth-802.3) or the company
> intranet i.e.
> 
> Client   --------------------->  GN-eth-802.11
> (successful)
> Client   -------------------------------------XXX--------->  GN-eth-802.3
> (NOTsuccessful)
> Client
> -------------------------------------XXX---------------------------------------------------->
> 
> Company intranet    (NOT successful)
> 
> 
> It seems that as soon as I 'insmod' the AODV routing module, it breaks the
> connection to the wired segment fo the network.  I looked at the kernel IP
> routing table (using the 'route' command) and can see that the AODV module
> has updated the kernel IP routing table (which is to be expected for the
> wireless 802.11 ethX interface).  However, after 'insmod'ing the AODV
> routing module, some of the routing entries for the wired 802.3 ethX
> interface also seem to have been modified / deleted.  I have tried looking
> at the differences and manually adding some of the desired route entries
> using the 'route add' command, but have so far been unsuccessful in
> reconnecting the wired part of the network once AODV is running.
> 
> So finally ;-) , my questions are :
> 
> - has anyone successfully configured a 'gateway node' with both wired and
> wireless network interfaces, and where AODV routing is used for the ad hoc
> nodes running in peer-to peer mode ?
> 
> - is this a configuration issue, or does installing the AODV module change
> something else in addition to modifying the kernel IP routing table ?
> 
> - is there another (better or easier) way of implementing a gateway node
> for connecting a wired network to a wireless network running AODV,
> OPERATING IN PEER-TO-PEER MODE (since the ad hoc nodes are running in
> peer-to-peer mode, I can't just use a COTS wireless router operating in
> infrastructure mode) ?
> 
> Any advice / information much appreciated.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> - Piers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 




From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Thu Feb 14 12:05:06 2002
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From: MEDDOUR Djamal Eddine thesard FTRD/DAC/LAN
	 <djamaleddine.meddour@rd.francetelecom.com>
To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=27Erik_Nordstr=F6m=27?= <erno3431@student.uu.se>,
        pohanlon@hns.com
Cc: MANET LIST <manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil>
Subject: RE: Difficulty implementing a gateway node for a peer-to-peer ad 
	hoc network using AODV routing
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hi all
I think that we must define a communicationinterface between your =
gateway
and internet independently of the routing protocol which we use. there =
is
some studies which talk about this problem.=20
we can find perhaps some indication in :=20
or :
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-wakikawa-manet-globalv6-00.txt=

     www.public.iastate.edu/~magico/Files_Pubs/LCN-ClusterGateway.pdf=20

best regards
djamal eddine


-----Message d'origine-----
De : Erik Nordstr=F6m [mailto:erno3431@student.uu.se]
Envoy=E9 : jeudi 14 f=E9vrier 2002 11:21
=C0 : pohanlon@hns.com
Cc : MANET LIST
Objet : Re: Difficulty implementing a gateway node for a peer-to-peer =
ad
hoc network using AODV routing


Hello Piers.

AODV currently does not define a way to do "Internet gatewaying". The
main problem has to do with the way subnets should be handled in an
ad-hoc network. The AODV draft says that nodes should be able to have =
IP
addresses belonging to different subnets, but they should still be able
to communicate directly. This clearly breaks the subnet idea of
"traditional" IP routing and makes Internet gatewaying impossible.
Apparently, the way to do this is a MANET problem, something not =
decided
on yet. However, there exists a few drafts on how to connect an ad-hoc
network to the Internet.

I don't know which implementation of AODV you are using, but it sounds
like "kernel-aodv". I don't think that implementation has any Internet
gateway support.

If you want to experiment, you could try the AODV-UU implementation
(version 0.2) which has experimental Internet gateway support. This
feature is implemented with the restriction that nodes should be
configured with IP-addresses on the same subnet.

http://www.docs.uu.se/~henrikl/aodv/

Otherwise I would recommend using LUNAR, which is a bit more robust, =
but
are created for smaller networks of up to around 10 nodes.

http://www.docs.uu.se/docs/research/projects/selnet/lunar/

I hope this answers your questions.

/Erik Nordstr=F6m,=20

Uppsala University.



On Thu, 2002-02-14 at 00:06, pohanlon@hns.com wrote:
> Hi all,
>=20
> I am trying to connect a network of ad hoc nodes (running in =
peer-to-peer
> mode using AODV routing) to our company intranet using a 'gateway =
node'.
> This 'gateway node' contains 2 network interfaces :
> - 1 wireless (802.11) for speaking to the ad hoc nodes (hereafter =
referred
> to as GN-eth-802.11), and
> - 1 wired (802.3 i.e. regular ethernet) for speaking to the company
> intranet (hereafter referred to as GN-eth-802.3).
>=20
> Below is a rough ASCII sketch of the arrangement :
>=20
>                                                                  =
'gateway
> node'
>      -----------       802.11
> ----------------------------------------------------          802.3
> --------------------------------
>      | Client |    <---------->   |  GN-eth-802.11   |   GN =
-eth-802.3   |
> <---------->   |  Company Intranet   |
>      -----------
> ----------------------------------------------------
> --------------------------------
>=20
> After booting the gateway node and a client node (but before enabling =
the
> AODV routing), I can ping from the client node to all of the =
following
> successfully i.e.
>=20
> Client   --------------------->  GN-eth-802.11
> (successful)
> Client   ------------------------------------------------->  =
GN-eth-802.3
> (successful)
> Client
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------=
----
------------------->
>=20
> Company intranet    (successful)
>=20
>=20
> However, after starting up AODV, the client node can still reach the
> wireless interface of the gateway node (GN-eth-802.11), but can no =
longer
> reach the wired interface of the gateway node (GN-eth-802.3) or the
company
> intranet i.e.
>=20
> Client   --------------------->  GN-eth-802.11
> (successful)
> Client   -------------------------------------XXX--------->  =
GN-eth-802.3
> (NOTsuccessful)
> Client
>
-------------------------------------XXX--------------------------------=
----
---------------->
>=20
> Company intranet    (NOT successful)
>=20
>=20
> It seems that as soon as I 'insmod' the AODV routing module, it =
breaks the
> connection to the wired segment fo the network.  I looked at the =
kernel IP
> routing table (using the 'route' command) and can see that the AODV =
module
> has updated the kernel IP routing table (which is to be expected for =
the
> wireless 802.11 ethX interface).  However, after 'insmod'ing the AODV
> routing module, some of the routing entries for the wired 802.3 ethX
> interface also seem to have been modified / deleted.  I have tried =
looking
> at the differences and manually adding some of the desired route =
entries
> using the 'route add' command, but have so far been unsuccessful in
> reconnecting the wired part of the network once AODV is running.
>=20
> So finally ;-) , my questions are :
>=20
> - has anyone successfully configured a 'gateway node' with both wired =
and
> wireless network interfaces, and where AODV routing is used for the =
ad hoc
> nodes running in peer-to peer mode ?
>=20
> - is this a configuration issue, or does installing the AODV module =
change
> something else in addition to modifying the kernel IP routing table ?
>=20
> - is there another (better or easier) way of implementing a gateway =
node
> for connecting a wired network to a wireless network running AODV,
> OPERATING IN PEER-TO-PEER MODE (since the ad hoc nodes are running in
> peer-to-peer mode, I can't just use a COTS wireless router operating =
in
> infrastructure mode) ?
>=20
> Any advice / information much appreciated.
>=20
> Thanks.
>=20
> - Piers.
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20


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<TITLE>RE: Difficulty implementing a gateway node for a peer-to-peer ad =
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<BODY>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>hi all</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>I think that we must define a communicationinterface =
between your gateway and internet independently of the routing protocol =
which we use. there is some studies which talk about this problem. =
</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>we can find perhaps some indication in : </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>or : <A =
HREF=3D"http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-wakikawa-manet-globalv=
6-00.txt" =
TARGET=3D"_blank">http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-wakikawa-man=
et-globalv6-00.txt</A></FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
www.public.iastate.edu/~magico/Files_Pubs/LCN-ClusterGateway.pdf =
</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>best regards</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>djamal eddine</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>-----Message d'origine-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>De : Erik Nordstr=F6m [<A =
HREF=3D"mailto:erno3431@student.uu.se">mailto:erno3431@student.uu.se</A>=
]</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Envoy=E9 : jeudi 14 f=E9vrier 2002 11:21</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>=C0 : pohanlon@hns.com</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Cc : MANET LIST</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Objet : Re: Difficulty implementing a gateway node =
for a peer-to-peer ad</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>hoc network using AODV routing</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Hello Piers.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>AODV currently does not define a way to do =
&quot;Internet gatewaying&quot;. The</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>main problem has to do with the way subnets should =
be handled in an</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>ad-hoc network. The AODV draft says that nodes =
should be able to have IP</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>addresses belonging to different subnets, but they =
should still be able</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>to communicate directly. This clearly breaks the =
subnet idea of</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&quot;traditional&quot; IP routing and makes =
Internet gatewaying impossible.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Apparently, the way to do this is a MANET problem, =
something not decided</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>on yet. However, there exists a few drafts on how to =
connect an ad-hoc</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>network to the Internet.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>I don't know which implementation of AODV you are =
using, but it sounds</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>like &quot;kernel-aodv&quot;. I don't think that =
implementation has any Internet</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>gateway support.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>If you want to experiment, you could try the AODV-UU =
implementation</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>(version 0.2) which has experimental Internet =
gateway support. This</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>feature is implemented with the restriction that =
nodes should be</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>configured with IP-addresses on the same =
subnet.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2><A HREF=3D"http://www.docs.uu.se/~henrikl/aodv/" =
TARGET=3D"_blank">http://www.docs.uu.se/~henrikl/aodv/</A></FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Otherwise I would recommend using LUNAR, which is a =
bit more robust, but</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>are created for smaller networks of up to around 10 =
nodes.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2><A =
HREF=3D"http://www.docs.uu.se/docs/research/projects/selnet/lunar/" =
TARGET=3D"_blank">http://www.docs.uu.se/docs/research/projects/selnet/lu=
nar/</A></FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>I hope this answers your questions.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>/Erik Nordstr=F6m, </FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Uppsala University.</FONT>
</P>
<BR>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>On Thu, 2002-02-14 at 00:06, pohanlon@hns.com =
wrote:</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Hi all,</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; I am trying to connect a network of ad hoc =
nodes (running in peer-to-peer</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; mode using AODV routing) to our company =
intranet using a 'gateway node'.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; This 'gateway node' contains 2 network =
interfaces :</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; - 1 wireless (802.11) for speaking to the ad =
hoc nodes (hereafter referred</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; to as GN-eth-802.11), and</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; - 1 wired (802.3 i.e. regular ethernet) for =
speaking to the company</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; intranet (hereafter referred to as =
GN-eth-802.3).</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Below is a rough ASCII sketch of the =
arrangement :</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT =
SIZE=3D2>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 'gateway</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; node'</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
-----------&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 802.11</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; =
----------------------------------------------------&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 802.3</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; --------------------------------</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | Client =
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;----------&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp; =
GN-eth-802.11&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; GN -eth-802.3&nbsp;&nbsp; =
|</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &lt;----------&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp; Company =
Intranet&nbsp;&nbsp; |</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
-----------</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; =
----------------------------------------------------</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; --------------------------------</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; After booting the gateway node and a client =
node (but before enabling the</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; AODV routing), I can ping from the client node =
to all of the following</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; successfully i.e.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Client&nbsp;&nbsp; =
---------------------&gt;&nbsp; GN-eth-802.11</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; (successful)</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Client&nbsp;&nbsp; =
-------------------------------------------------&gt;&nbsp; =
GN-eth-802.3</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; (successful)</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Client</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; =
------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----------------------&gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Company intranet&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
(successful)</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; However, after starting up AODV, the client =
node can still reach the</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; wireless interface of the gateway node =
(GN-eth-802.11), but can no longer</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; reach the wired interface of the gateway node =
(GN-eth-802.3) or the company</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; intranet i.e.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Client&nbsp;&nbsp; =
---------------------&gt;&nbsp; GN-eth-802.11</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; (successful)</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Client&nbsp;&nbsp; =
-------------------------------------XXX---------&gt;&nbsp; =
GN-eth-802.3</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; (NOTsuccessful)</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Client</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; =
-------------------------------------XXX--------------------------------=
--------------------&gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Company intranet&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; (NOT =
successful)</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; It seems that as soon as I 'insmod' the AODV =
routing module, it breaks the</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; connection to the wired segment fo the =
network.&nbsp; I looked at the kernel IP</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; routing table (using the 'route' command) and =
can see that the AODV module</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; has updated the kernel IP routing table (which =
is to be expected for the</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; wireless 802.11 ethX interface).&nbsp; However, =
after 'insmod'ing the AODV</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; routing module, some of the routing entries for =
the wired 802.3 ethX</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; interface also seem to have been modified / =
deleted.&nbsp; I have tried looking</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; at the differences and manually adding some of =
the desired route entries</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; using the 'route add' command, but have so far =
been unsuccessful in</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; reconnecting the wired part of the network once =
AODV is running.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; So finally ;-) , my questions are :</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; - has anyone successfully configured a 'gateway =
node' with both wired and</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; wireless network interfaces, and where AODV =
routing is used for the ad hoc</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; nodes running in peer-to peer mode ?</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; - is this a configuration issue, or does =
installing the AODV module change</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; something else in addition to modifying the =
kernel IP routing table ?</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; - is there another (better or easier) way of =
implementing a gateway node</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; for connecting a wired network to a wireless =
network running AODV,</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; OPERATING IN PEER-TO-PEER MODE (since the ad =
hoc nodes are running in</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; peer-to-peer mode, I can't just use a COTS =
wireless router operating in</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; infrastructure mode) ?</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Any advice / information much =
appreciated.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Thanks.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; - Piers.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
</P>

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From: "Peter Lewis" <peter.lewis@upperside.fr>
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Subject: Mobile Ad Hoc Networks '02
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Mobile Ad Hoc Networks '02, to take place in Paris, France, from March 5 =
to 8, 2002, will bring answers and enlightenment to all these questions =
through the presentations of leading-edge researchers in the domain.=20
http://www.upperside.fr/adhoc/adhocintro.htm



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From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Thu Feb 14 14:12:47 2002
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Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 08:43:53 -0800 (PST)
From: Yang Xiao <yangxiao_acm@yahoo.com>
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My apologies if you receive this CFP duplicated.
-------------------

Call for Papers- Deadline correction

Invited Session Title: Modeling, Analysis, and Simulation of Wireless
LANs and Mobile Ad Hoc Networks and QoS Issues

Invited Session in the 6th World Multi-Conference on Systemics, 
Cybernetics and Informatics, (SCI 2002) Orlando, Florida, USA, July 14 
-18, 2002


Topics of Interest
	
Wireless LANs & Mobile Ad Hoc Networks (not limited to)

	Simulation, Modeling and performance evaluation of Wireless 
        LANs, such as IEEE 802.11, HIPERLAN, and Ad hoc Networks.
	Quality-of-service issues in Wireless LANs (IEEE 802.11e, 
        HIPERLAN/2, etc.) and Ad Hoc Networks.
	Power Consumption issues
	Higher data rates
	3G/4G-WLAN
	Differentiated Services for Wireless LANs
	Co-existence of the IEEE 802.11 and 802.15
	Resource Management 
	Analytical methods.

Deadlines

Submission of Extended Abstracts: February 17, 2002
Notification of Acceptance: March 10, 2002
Camera Ready Copies:  April 03, 2002

Session Co-Organizers/co-chairs

Dr. Yang Xiao, Micro Linear, USA
Dr. Bin Wang, Wright State University, USA

Instructions For Submission

Submission should be in the form of extended abstracts up to 4 pages 
long. All submitted contributions will be subject to peer review on the

basis of technical correctness, quality, relevance, originality, 
significance, and clarity.  Abstracts should be in MS Word, PDF or PS 
format. Submissions should be sent to the session's co-organizers. 
Successful submissions will be asked to submit a full paper. Full 
papers must be formatted according to IEEE-CS guidelines

Electronic Submission:

Dr. Yang Xiao: YangXiao@IEEE.ORG
Dr. Bin Wang: bwang@cs.wright.edu

For more details check at http://www.iiis.org/sci2002/
last updated 02/11/02



__________________________________________________
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From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Thu Feb 14 22:18:40 2002
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From: Cesar Santivanez <csantiva@BBN.COM>
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I am resending this e-mail, since for some reason it did not get posted ...

Cesar

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Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 09:45:30 -0500
From: Cesar Santivanez <csantiva@bbn.com>
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Hi Richard,

ogier@erg.sri.com wrote:

> One problem with total overhead is that it is highly dependent on the
> amount of data traffic sent, whereas routing control traffic is often
> fairly independent of this.

That is the whole point ....  Routing protocols should be mobility and traffic sensitive ...
As the bandwidth and data traffic increase, the `relative cost' of the control overhead
decreases... There is an inherent trade off between control overhead and sub-optimal
routng cost.  Scalability analysis has shown that best peformance can be achieved when
these two sources of overhead (or cost) are kept balanced.
This means that if we allow data traffic demands to increase, then we should also
let the `control overhead'  to increase accordingly ...

Now, dynamic adaptation to mobility and traffic may sound far fetch now, but it is
something to explore in the future... For the time being, I would suggest to tune
protocols to minimize the `total overhead'  at the maximum expected traffic load ...
This way your protocol will work efficiently when you need this efficiency the most,
while  under light load -- in most cases -- we may not care about expending extra control
overhead bits since we  have bandwidth to spare  ...



> > There are many instances in my experience where a mechanism that takes more
> > overhead ends up doing better in terms of user metrics.
>
> I'm not sure if you mean "total overhead" here.

I think Ram was referring to `control overhead' here ...


> But since the min-hop path is not always the best path, it is certainly
> possible for a protocol to perform better by using longer paths
> (and thus more total overhead).

Yeap.. Specially since `better' may mean less delay, less jitter, etc.
What the `total overhead' metric gives you is an indication of the amount of
capacity  left for data traffic. So, gives you the `potencial' for data
transmission.


> Full flooding also achieves better
> reliability by using more total overhead than other flooding mechanisms.

Well, the `total overhead' framework assumes that the network layer provides
reliable transmissions, that is, that never gives up until a packet reaches its
destination. Thus, for efficient flooding techniques's total overhead's computation
you would have to consider all the retransmissions required until getting the
data packet to its intended destination.  So, the total overhead assumes the
`reliable' version (e.g. using network layer ACKs) of the protocols.


> And the following example, in which neither of the two disjoint paths
> from 1 to 4 uses a min-hop path, shows that sometimes throughput can be
> increased by using more total overhead:
>
>        5-6
>       /   \
>      /     \
> 1 - 2 - 3 - 4
>  \     /
>   \   /
>    6-7
>

Well, this is not the whole history ...  Total overhead relates to remaining capacity, but for ALL the
possible flows. You are assuming that only flow 1 --> 4 has traffic to sent, and I agree that in such a
particular scenario you'll be better off with load balancing over least interfering paths.
But if you consider the maximum combined rates of all the flows ( 1->6,  1 -> 7,  2 ->6,  2->7, etc.)
you will see that the protocol with less total overhead is the one that achieves greater total
throughput (granted, there are fairness issues -- specially in the presence of bottleneck links --
so we are not maximazing the minimum flow throughput here).
So, if you are sure what traffic pattern you have, to may beat the total overhead design criteria.
But if you are assuming that all flows are potentially possible, a better desing criteria would be to
minimize the expected total overhead ...

The total overhead metric allow for tractable models to be derived. It is not perfect since it ignores
fairness issues (as well as the effect of bottleneck links) by assigning the same cost to all
transmissions as oppose to assigning a smaller cost to transmission over `unused' areas
of the network (due to the inherent assumption that the network load is high and diverse
-- several flows -- and all areas of the network are going to be used).

I'll be more than happy to discuss/explore better metrics that addresses the
`total overhead' shortcomings while still allowing for meaningful tractable models
to be developed...


Regards

Cesar


> Richard
>
> > For a more formal treatment of TOTAL OVERHEAD, see
> >
> > Making Link State Routing Scale for Ad Hoc Networks, in Mobihoc 2001 by
> > C. Santivanez et al
> >
> > On the Scalability of Routing for Ad Hoc Networks, to appear in Infocom 2002,
> > by C. Santivanez et al
> >
> >
> > >     - is more likely to perform well in lower bandwidth radios such
> > >       as those used by the military.
> > >
> > >
> > > -----------------------
> > > Richard Ogier
> > > Sr. Research Engineer
> > > SRI International
> > > 333 Ravenswood Ave.
> > > Menlo Park, CA 94025
> > > Tel: 650-859-4216
> > > Fax: 650-859-4812
> > > Email: ogier@erg.sri.com
> > > ------------------------
> > >
> >

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To: manet <manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil>, manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil
Subject: Sending rate in wireless 
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 15:53:06 +0800
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I have a query that the data rate using 802.11 & 802.11b are 2Mbps & 11Mbps
respectively, but what is the packet size and sending rate (that is packets
sent per second) to achieve the above rates.
Also, can someone guide me as to how to implement 802.11b using NS2, cuz
presently it has only 802.11

Thanking you.

Yours sincerely,
Shivanajay Marwaha
~-~~-~~-~~-~-~-~-~
RS, ECE Dept, NUS.
www.nus.edu.sg
~-~~-~~-~~-~-~-~-~


From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Fri Feb 15 14:24:40 2002
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From: Brown Warren-YMDI110 <Warren.G.Brown@motorola.com>
To: "'Marwaha Shivanajay'" <engp1609@nus.edu.sg>,
        manet
	 <manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil>, manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil
Subject: RE: Sending rate in wireless 
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 09:02:41 -0800
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I believe this refers to the raw bit transfer rate at the physical layer. eg similar to 100 Mbps for 802.3 Ethernet.

Warren Brown


-----Original Message-----
From: Marwaha Shivanajay [mailto:engp1609@nus.edu.sg]
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2002 11:53 PM
To: manet; manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil
Subject: Sending rate in wireless 



I have a query that the data rate using 802.11 & 802.11b are 2Mbps & 11Mbps
respectively, but what is the packet size and sending rate (that is packets
sent per second) to achieve the above rates.
Also, can someone guide me as to how to implement 802.11b using NS2, cuz
presently it has only 802.11

Thanking you.

Yours sincerely,
Shivanajay Marwaha
~-~~-~~-~~-~-~-~-~
RS, ECE Dept, NUS.
www.nus.edu.sg
~-~~-~~-~~-~-~-~-~


From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Fri Feb 15 16:48:39 2002
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To: Brown Warren-YMDI110 <Warren.G.Brown@motorola.com>,
        "'Marwaha Shivanajay'" <engp1609@nus.edu.sg>,
        manet <manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil>, manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil
From: Joe Macker <macker@itd.nrl.navy.mil>
Subject: RE: Sending rate in wireless 
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 com>
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Please move this and similar discussion/replies to the ns-user mailing list.
-Joe

At 09:02 AM 2/15/2002 -0800, Brown Warren-YMDI110 wrote:
>I believe this refers to the raw bit transfer rate at the physical layer. eg similar to 100 Mbps for 802.3 Ethernet.
>
>Warren Brown
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Marwaha Shivanajay [mailto:engp1609@nus.edu.sg]
>Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2002 11:53 PM
>To: manet; manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil
>Subject: Sending rate in wireless 
>
>
>
>I have a query that the data rate using 802.11 & 802.11b are 2Mbps & 11Mbps
>respectively, but what is the packet size and sending rate (that is packets
>sent per second) to achieve the above rates.
>Also, can someone guide me as to how to implement 802.11b using NS2, cuz
>presently it has only 802.11
>
>Thanking you.
>
>Yours sincerely,
>Shivanajay Marwaha




From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Fri Feb 15 16:48:43 2002
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Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 11:53:47 -0800
From: "Fred L. Templin" <templin@erg.sri.com>
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Hello,

I would like to announce the following draft that proposes an IPv6
transition mechanism which may be of general interest to MANET. This
draft is currently a working group item in the IETF NGTRANS WG, and
specifies mechanisms for dealing with NBMA link layers that draw
parallels to certain architectural considerations for MANET.

Please note that I am cross-posting this from the IETF NGTRANS mailing
list where the draft is currently undergoing active discussion. Please
direct any comments you may have to both lists.

Fred Templin
templin@erg.sri.com     


  "Intra-Site Automatic Tunnel Addressing Protocol (ISATAP)",
   F. Templin, et.al., 01/30/2002

  http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ngtrans-isatap-03.txt

  This document specifies the Intra-Site Automatic Tunnel Addressing
  Protocol (ISATAP) that connects IPv6 hosts and routers (nodes) within
  IPv4 sites. ISATAP is a transition mechanism that enables incremental
  deployment of IPv6 by treating the site's IPv4 infrastructure as a
  Non-Broadcast Multiple Access (NBMA) link layer.


From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Fri Feb 15 16:51:39 2002
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From: "Fred L. Templin" <templin@erg.sri.com>
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CC: templin@erg.sri.com
Subject: Fast Convergence Extension for ISATAP Router Discovery
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Hello,
 
I would like to announce the following personal draft that proposes
an optional extension for ISATAP which may be of specific interest to
MANET. The optional extension may provide benefits for ISATAP when used
in MANET environments. The draft is concise and to-the-point, and the
subject matter can be grasped by a quick read of the abstract. At this
time, my purpose in making this announcement is only to seek feedback
from the community on what is being proposed. Thanks in advance for any
comments you may have.

Fred Templin
templin@erg.sri.com


  "Fast Convergence Extension for ISATAP Router Discovery",
   Fred Templin, 02/01/2002

  http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-templin-ngtrans-isatapext-00.txt 

  This document specifies an optional extension for [ISATAP] that supports
  fast convergence (i.e, fast discovery of on-link routers). The extension
  employs a subset of the multicast mechanisms specified by [6OVER4] to
  augment the NBMA mechanisms specified by [ISATAP].


From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Fri Feb 15 20:52:50 2002
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Message-ID: <8C92E23A3E87FB479988285F9E22BE46994130@ftmail>
From: Scott Corson <Corson@flarion.com>
To: "'Kilian Weniger'" <weniger@tm.uka.de>, manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil
Subject: RE: Minutes of 52nd IETF MANET WG meeting?
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 18:19:33 -0500
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Folks,

Sorry for the lapse this time...we had this ready and never submitted it.

-Scott n Joe


****************************************************************************
***

Minutes of Dec 2001 MANET MTG

The IETF manet WG held a recent meeting on December 11, 2001 in Salt Lake
City, Utah, USA. The meeting began with a brief introduction by the WG
chairmen, Joe Macker and Scott Corson and the customary agenda bashing
session.

WG Scope Discussion

Scott Corson then led a discussion on WG scope and direction.  With the
recent change in Routing Area Directorship, the WG's scope and charter are
under review, and there is a desire on the part of the Routing AD and the WG
chairs to keep the group focused and working on near-term practical
problems.  It was reiterated by the co-chairs that work on multicast, QoS
and address auto-configuration in manets is currently out of scope.  Also,
it was strongly suggested that work specifically oriented towards larger
scale manets (TORA, ZRP-related drafts, LANMAR) be removed as WG work items
due to the apparent lack of WG interest, but this was agreed to be taken to
the list for discussion and consensus assessment.  

There was specific discussion on whether to still advance both AODV and DSR
as Experimental RFCs as was previously agreed, or to try to come to WG
consensus now on which of the two protocols should advance towards Proposed
Standard status.  The rough consensus of the WG seemed to favor continuing
with both drafts moving to Experimental status, due to minimal operational
experience and third party experimentation with the protocols.  The short
term goal would be to encourage further implementation and experimentation
and for a "WG process" to be developed by which future reactive protocol
decisions could be made.

The suggestion was also put forth by the chairs to include work on manet
"flooding" as a WG item; the thought being that flooding is a generic
feature useful in manets for a variety of algorithms such as multicast and
address auto-configuration mechanisms.  Also the group has some experience
with flooding mechanisms already as every unicast protocol makes use of a
flooding mechanism to some degree.

The conclusion of the discussion on WG scope was that focused work on
reactive and proactive unicast routing protocols for manet should continue,
and that flooding should be added as well.  The rationale was that these
pieces of work are relatively technically mature and that further
experimentation and closure on specifics is needed before moving on to more
complicated design areas.  Further discussion of future scope will be taken
to the list.

Protocol Discussions

A sequence of presentations then followed, not all of which are described
here, so please see the meeting minutes for more information [1].

Richard Ogier briefly outlined recent changes to TBRPF, and then presented
simulation results comparing the relative performances of TBRPF, OLSR and
AODV.  The discussion of these results was lively and the validity and
effectiveness of the models developed for OLSR experimentation was openly
questioned.  Joe Macker raised the issue that the results presented for OLSR
should not be taken as representative of the performance due to potential
design issues with the Linux code based on version 3 of the draft
specification.  This earlier protocol implementation source code was used to
develop the simulation results presented.  The WG chairs encouraged further
third party experimentation with newer simulation models under development
as a further independent comparison of protocol performance and issues.

Thomas Clausen followed with a summary of activity and progress regarding
the work of the proactive protocol design team. The proactive routing design
team activity was established within the WG to explore the potential for a
compromise core protocol for proactive routing.  A short term goal of this
team was to explore the possibility of a design merge of the best aspects of
approaches being proposed to further simplify and scope WG activity.  The
active membership has mostly consisted of work between TBRPF and OLSR
authors. While progress was made in identifying common algorithm components
and obtaining a shared understanding of the similarities and differences in
the two approaches, the design team membership failed to close some of the
gaps that existed between the designs of respective proposed algorithms.
The conclusion of the early exploratory design team effort is that a merged
protocol design was not likely without technical compromising existing
proposals.  Due to this outcome, respective proactive routing protocol
groups have decided to continue to progress work on their respective
individual protocols.

Along with reactive protocols, the manet WG feels that the development of
proactive protocols for manet is important for a number of mobile routing
application areas and scenarios. This work is also reaching maturity rather
quickly in terms of implementation and experimental experience.  Now that
the proactive routing design team has reached its initial conclusions, that
a single protocol consensus design is unlikely, a WG decision process and
timeline for progressing forward respective proposals needs to be
established.

References

[1] Proceedings of the Fifty-Second Internet Engineering Task Force, Current
Meeting Report for the manet WG, Salt Lake City, December 2001.



From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Sat Feb 16 18:07:12 2002
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From: berniejoe@x263.net
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To: manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil
Subject: both in Ad-hoc mode and Infrastructure mode?
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 04:15:44 +0800
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Hello all,

We're conducting research on ad-hoc routing. I'd like to know if the wireless cards now available could work in both Ad-hoc mode and Infrastructure mode. I mean, you needn't switch the card between these two modes, and it could communicate with the Access Point and another wireless card at the same time. I'm not quite familiar about 802.11 standard, and I know it can't in Windows. But I heard that it works in Linux. Is that true?

Thanks for any comments

Bernie Joe


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From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Mon Feb 18 16:03:45 2002
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From: "Philippe Jacquet" <philippe.jacquet@inria.fr>
To: <ogier@erg.sri.com>, "Matt Read" <mread@hns.com>
Cc: <manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil>
References: <200202132050.MAA25942@koa.erg.sri.com>
Subject: Re: Asymmetric links 
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 20:00:43 +0100
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Richard,

You must be careful with your definition of symmetric/asymmetric links. In
your draft you assume that a link is bidirectional even when it is made of
two unidirectional interfaces. This may fail with IEEE 802.11 ACK feedback
process. Please look at OLSR draft. Indeed you may meet weird situations
(the most uncomfortable one is when a node receives the same interface from
another node but on two different interfaces, among them one is asymmetric).

Philippe
----- Original Message -----
From: <ogier@erg.sri.com>
To: Matt Read <mread@hns.com>
Cc: <manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil>; <ogier@erg.sri.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 9:50 PM
Subject: Re: Asymmetric links


>
> Matt,
>
> > Everyone,
> >
> > AODV breaks when this happens.  As a relative newcomer to AODV,
> > please pardon me if this has already been considered, but could the
> > HELLO message include a list of the Neighbors from which the sender
> > has recently heard HELLO's?  Then if a node hears a HELLO in which
> > it does not find itself listed, it could assume there is no link and
> > not try to send directly to that node (sending RREQ's instead).
> > (There will be scalability and other issues, of course.)
> >
> > - Matt
>
> Yes, by including a list of all neighbors in each HELLO, a node
> can detect when a bidirectional link has become unidirectional.
> This is what OSPF and OLSR do.  But a more efficient way is to
> use differential HELLOs (as in TBRPF), so that each HELLO contains
> only the neighbors whose states have recently changed.
> Perhaps AODV should also use differential HELLOs.
>
> Richard
>
>



From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Tue Feb 19 06:37:55 2002
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From: MEDDOUR Djamal Eddine thesard FTRD/DAC/LAN
	 <djamaleddine.meddour@rd.francetelecom.com>
To: manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil
Subject: others cretaria in MANET routing protocol
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Hi all<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns =
"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> 

The criteria of the choice of the optimal route is the number of hops, do
you think that it's sufficient? Why don't take in consideration some other
criteria like traffic load around node, node energy, node capacity, ...

Any comments


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<DIV><FONT face=Arial><SPAN class=139074808-19022002><SPAN 
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all</SPAN><SPAN 
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial Unicode MS'; mso-ansi-language: EN-GB; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt"><?xml:namespace 
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<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN 
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-ansi-language: EN-GB">The 
criteria of the choice of the optimal route is the&nbsp;number of hops, do you 
think that it's sufficient? Why don't take in consideration&nbsp;<SPAN 
class=139074808-19022002>some </SPAN>other criteria like&nbsp;<SPAN 
class=139074808-19022002>traffic</SPAN> load<SPAN class=139074808-19022002> 
around node</SPAN>,&nbsp;<SPAN class=139074808-19022002>node </SPAN>energy, node 
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From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Wed Feb 20 07:48:42 2002
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Subject: Re: performance comparaison between Ad Hoc routing protocols 
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Richard,

I am not quite sure what to make from your simulations. It seems to me
that they are from a network in overload condition - in which case buffer
management has a critical impact on performance. We've been simulating
OLSR in conditions, similar to those you've been showing, and our results
differ significantly. We experience that a large abmount of (data and
control) traffic in these situations are rejected from the various
buffers.

Dropping control-traffic in the various buffers due to overload should in
fact result in (and, indeed, does in our simulations) *less* control
traffic being sent on the medium, not more - as suggested by your results.
A solution, obviously, is to use priority queues and to prioritize control
traffic. However this is approaching an implementation issue, and is not
something included in our code. So I am puzzled how you get the figures
showing an increasing control traffic overhead when increasing the
overload condition.

Also, I notice that we obtain much less overhead for OLSR when counting
MAC/IP overhead. Have you alterated the ns2 code to make it output more
detailed information (e.g. physical overhead etc.) ?

Please keep in mind that the ns2-code (version 3) of OLSR does not include
features such as link hysteresis and loss link management for mobility
conditions. I thins this is the case for AODV (version 2) as well
(features not fully implemented, new features not present).

Finally, I've been looking at your graphs, and I think that achieving
optimal performance (for either of the manet protocols) is largely a
matter of tuning protocol parameters. I noticed, for example, that the
paraeters you used for tbrpf in the simulations differ from those
specifyed in the draft.

--thomas

On Wed, 13 Feb 2002 ogier@erg.sri.com wrote:

> 
> On Thu, 7 Feb 2002 Mahesh Marina wrote:
>  
> > Your simulation results for AODV somehow were way off from what I have
> > observed in the past. I was one of the people involved in the development
> > of AODV code for ns2. 
> > 
> > You mention that the link-layer notification was turned off in your
> > evaluations. I assumed that HELLOs were instead used for link
> > detection/failure in AODV as well and looked at the piece of code for
> > handling HELLOs. 
> 
> > I found that neighbor deletion (and therefore, link failure
> > detection) was commented out inadvertently, perhaps during
> > debugging. As most of our performance studies used link-layer feedback,
> > this bug didn't show up. So, I was wondering whether AODV results would be
> > same without this bug.
> 
> I reran the ns-2 simulations for AODV with the above fix,
> which improved the performance of AODV substantially in the 
> mobile scenarios (but not in the non-mobile scenarios).
> To ensure fairness with TBRPF and OLSR, I also commented out
> the following code in AODV so that no protocol is allowed
> to retrieve packets from the interface queue (ifqueue):
> 
>        // Not sure whether this is the right thing to do
>        Packet *pkt;
>        while((pkt = ifqueue->filter(ih->saddr()))) {
> 			drop(pkt, DROP_RTR_MAC_CALLBACK);
> 
> (The above comment is by one of the AODV programmers, not me.)
> 
> The simulation results can be found at the TBRPF web site: 
> http://www.erg.sri.com/projects/tbrpf/
> 
> The results are summarized below.  Comments are welcome.
> Note that TBRPF code for ns-2.1b8 is now available.
> 
> Protocols compared:
> 
>    - AODV code for ns-2.1b8
>      Available from http://www.cs.ucsb.edu/~eroyer/aodv.html
> 
>    - TBRPF code for ns-2.1b8
>      Available from http://www.erg.sri.com/projects/tbrpf/sourcecode.html
>      Uses the same 'C' code as our Linux implementation
> 
>    - OLSR code for ns-2.1b7
>      Available from http://hipercom.inria.fr/olsr/
>      Bug affecting packet size was fixed.
> 
>    - In all protocols, link-layer failure notification was NOT used, and 
>      packets could not be retrieved from the link layer (interface queue). 
> 
> Simulation model:
> 
>   - ns-2 version 2.1b8
>   - WaveLAN IEEE 802.11 MAC with rate 2Mb/s and range 250m
>   - 50 and 100 nodes
>   - Two area sizes: 670m x 670m and 1500m x 300m
>   - Mobility model: No mobility, and random waypoint model with 0 pause 
>     time and maximum speed 20 m/s.
>   - 20 simultaneous CBR traffic streams:
>     - Source and destination of each stream are selected randomly 
>     - Duration of each stream is 30 seconds
>     - Size of each data packet is 512 bytes
>     - Packet generation rate per stream is increased from 2 to 8 packets/s
>   - Each simulation was run for 500 simulated seconds.
> 
> Summary of results:
> 
>   - In every scenario, TBRPF achieved a higher delivery percentage (up to 
>     15% higher) than OLSR.  TBRPF also achieved a higher delivery percentage 
>     (up to 15% higher) than AODV in all scenarios with no mobility, and in 
>     all scenarios using the square area (670x670) with the lower packet rates 
>     (2 and 4 packets/s).  For the long rectangular area (1500x300), AODV 
>     achieved a higher delivery percentage (up to 5% higher) than TBRPF.
> 
>   - In every scenario, TBRPF generated less routing control traffic
>     than the other protocols: up to 60% less than OLSR and up to 48% 
>     less than AODV.  This is despite the fact that TBRPF sends
>     HELLOs twice as frequently as OLSR.
> 
>   - In every scenario, TBRPF used the shortest paths (except nearly shortest 
>     in some cases with the higher packet rates).  In every scenario, AODV 
>     used paths that were 12-20% longer on average than TBRPF.
> 
>   - TBRPF usually had the best or nearly best delay.  
> 
> Remarks:
> 
>   - This study did not use link-layer failure notification.  It is important 
>     to also compare the protocols with link-layer notification, since this 
>     allows one to achieve a delivery fraction close to 100%.
> 
>   - A comparison of TBRPF with AODV using link-layer notification can
>     also be found at the TBRPF web site.  That comparison also compares
>     the protocols with 40 sources (which gives TBRPF more advantage).
> 
>   - A routing protocol that generates less control traffic and uses 
>     shorter paths:
> 
>     - uses less energy,
>     - is more likely to scale to a larger number of nodes,
>     - is more likely to perform well in lower bandwidth radios such
>       as those used by the military.
> 
> 
> -----------------------
> Richard Ogier
> Sr. Research Engineer
> SRI International
> 333 Ravenswood Ave.
> Menlo Park, CA 94025
> Tel: 650-859-4216
> Fax: 650-859-4812
> Email: ogier@erg.sri.com
> ------------------------
> 

-- 

-------------------------------------------
  Thomas Heide Clausen
  Civilingeniør i Datateknik (cand.polyt)
  M.Sc in Computer Engineering

  E-Mail: T.Clausen@computer.org
  WWW:    http://www.cs.auc.dk/~voop
-------------------------------------------



From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Wed Feb 20 12:24:14 2002
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Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 10:03:45 -0500
From: Chuck Winters <cwinters@atl.lmco.com>
To: manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil
Subject: Ad-Hoc Analysis
Message-ID: <20020220150345.GC15039@atl.lmco.com>
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Hello All,
	I was wondering if someone could point me to some information on 
network performance analysis in Ad-Hoc networks?  I am not looking
for simulation, but for real testing.

Thanks,
Chuck

-- 
Chuck Winters                            | Email:  cwinters@atl.lmco.com
Distributed Processing Laboratory        | Phone:  856-338-3987
Lockheed Martin Advanced Technology Labs |
1 Federal St - A&E-3W                    |
Camden, NJ 08102                         |


From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Wed Feb 20 16:34:39 2002
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To: T.Clausen@computer.org
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Reply-To: ogier@erg.sri.com
From: ogier@erg.sri.com
Subject: Re: performance comparaison between Ad Hoc routing protocols 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 20 Feb 2002 11:20:08 +0100."
             <Pine.LNX.4.21.0202201117560.433-100000@armada> 
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 11:09:50 -0800
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Thomas,

> Richard,
> 
> I am not quite sure what to make from your simulations. It seems to me
> that they are from a network in overload condition - in which case buffer
> management has a critical impact on performance. We've been simulating
> OLSR in conditions, similar to those you've been showing, and our results
> differ significantly. We experience that a large abmount of (data and
> control) traffic in these situations are rejected from the various
> buffers.

I considered four packet rates: 2, 4, 6, and 8 packets/s.  
The latter two are indeed usually an overload condition 
(except that TBRPF sometimes did very well with 6 packets/s),
but 2 packets/s is certainly NOT.

> Dropping control-traffic in the various buffers due to overload should in
> fact result in (and, indeed, does in our simulations) *less* control
> traffic being sent on the medium, not more - as suggested by your results.
> A solution, obviously, is to use priority queues and to prioritize control
> traffic. However this is approaching an implementation issue, and is not
> something included in our code. So I am puzzled how you get the figures
> showing an increasing control traffic overhead when increasing the
> overload condition.

To ensure that the protocols were compared on a fair basis,
since AODV and TBRPF gave control traffic higher priority than
data traffic, we did the same for OLSR.  It has long been considered
a good idea to give control traffic higher priority.  This could 
explain why your results differ from mine.
You can do this simply by adding the line
                case PT_OLSR:
to the function PriQueue::recv() in priqueue.cc.

> Also, I notice that we obtain much less overhead for OLSR when counting
> MAC/IP overhead. Have you alterated the ns2 code to make it output more
> detailed information (e.g. physical overhead etc.) ?

No we did not.  In addition to the 20-byte IP header, ns2 adds 52 bytes 
at the MAC layer.  

> Please keep in mind that the ns2-code (version 3) of OLSR does not include
> features such as link hysteresis and loss link management for mobility
> conditions. I thins this is the case for AODV (version 2) as well
> (features not fully implemented, new features not present).

Yes. Please let me know when OLSR code is available that has these 
new features.

Regarding hysteresis, this is a feature that can be used by either
OLSR or TBRPF.  For example, TBRPF can use the same EWMA hysteresis 
technique used by OLSR if it helps performance.

> Finally, I've been looking at your graphs, and I think that achieving
> optimal performance (for either of the manet protocols) is largely a
> matter of tuning protocol parameters. I noticed, for example, that the
> paraeters you used for tbrpf in the simulations differ from those
> specifyed in the draft.

We also tried using the parameter values in the draft, but the difference 
in performance was only slight.  Note that we used the same parameter
values for all scenarios, so we did not tune the parameters to each
scenario.  

Richard




From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Wed Feb 20 16:34:42 2002
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Subject: Extended Submission Deadline (IEEE SAWN 2002) : March 18
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Extended Submission Deadline !!! : March 18, 2002 

 * Apologize if you receive multiple copies of this announcement !
   Please feel free to distribute a copy of this CFP to those who
   might be interested.

 =======================================================================

          The Second Symposium on Ad Hoc Wireless Networks (SAWN2002)
                          in conjunction with IEEE GLOBECOM 2002.

                             November 17 - 21, 2002.
                             Taipei, Taiwan, R.O.C.

   http://mmlab.snu.ac.kr/~pretty/sawn/sawn02.html

   -----------------------------------------------------------
                                 CALL FOR PAPERS

  Objectives

   The IEEE Symposium on Ad-Hoc Wireless Networks (SAWN2002) is a new and
   high quality technical meeting (to be held as part of IEEE GLOBECOM 2002) for
   researchers to present their latest research work related to the fast
   evolving field of ad hoc (multihop, adaptive, and self-organizing)
   wireless networks and pervasive communications. Such networks could
   have strong potential impact on our daily lives (for example at home
   and on-the-road) and the way we work. They are also particularly
   attractive for military and emergency operations due to their fast
   deployable and self-organizing characteristics. Future ad hoc networks
   are also capable of supporting multimedia. High quality papers are
   invited from researchers in academia and industries who are involved
   in this area of work.
 
 Submissions

   Submissions are welcomed in any area related ad hoc wireless networks. The
   topics os interest include, but are not limited to :

   * Ad Hoc Routing Protocols/Algorithms
   * Ad Hoc Multicasting Protocols/Algorithms
   * Ad Hoc Transport Issues
   * Service Discovery Algorithms
   * Media Access Techniques/Protocols
   * Low Power Algorithms and Protocols
   * Sensor & Data Fusion Ad Hoc Networks
   * Quality of Service Issues
   * Ad Hoc Network Architectures
   * Mobile IP with Ad Hoc
   * Error & Link Control Techniques
   * Performance of Bluetooth Networks
   * Access & Session Support
   * Integration Issues

   Technical papers should be submitted to the Globecom Committee following
   the general Globecom submission process and instructions.  In order to
   ensure that your paper is properly routed to this Symposium, it is VERY
   IMPORTANT that you explicitly identify "Symposium on Ad Hoc Wireless
   Networks" as the intended symposium to which you are submitting the
   paper. Failure to do so may result in your paper being forwarded to
   another symposium.

   All submissions will be made electronically and accepted papers will be
   published with GLOBECOM proceedings. Papers of particular merit may be
   considered for journal publications.

  Important Dates
   ===============
    Extended Submission Deadline : March 18, 2002
    Acceptance Notification : June 30, 2002
    Camera Ready Paper Due : August 15, 2002

  All inquires should be directed to the symposium chairman at
    dkkim@jade.snu.ac.kr or pretty@mmlab.snu.ac.kr

 Paper that are more than 5 pages are allowed but once they are accepted for
 publication, the author/s must be prepared to pay for additional page
 charges.

  SAWN 2002 Technical Program Chair

    Dr. Dongkyun Kim      Seoul National University

  Steering Committee Members

    Prof. Victor Li        University of Hong Kong
    Dr. Justin Chuang      MobilinkTel USA
    Prof. C-K. Toh         (Steering Committee Chair)

  Technical Program Committee Members

    Dr. Kenneth Brayer                 MITRE, USA
    Prof. Elvino S. Sousa              Univ. of Toronto, Canada
    Dr. Silvia. Giordano               EPFL, Switzerland
    Prof. Bo Li                        Hongkong UST
    Dr. Chip Elliott                   BBN, USA
    Dr. Eric Fleury                    INRIA, France
    Prof. Nick Bambos                  Stanford U, USA
    Prof. Znati, Taieb                 NSF/Pittsburg U
    Syed Akbar                         TRW, USA
    Prof. Khaled Ben Letaief           Hongkong UST
    Prof. Halim Yanikomeroglu          Carleton U, Canada
    Dr. Yile Guo                       NOKIA, USA
    Prof. Adam Wolisz                  TU-berlin, Germany
    Dr. Nader Moayeri                  NIST, USA
    Prof. Y.H. Choi                    Seoul National Univ., Korea
    Dr. Chih-Lin I                     AT & T, USA
    Prof. K.C. Chen                    NTU, Taiwan
    Dr. Howard Lemberg                 Telcordia, USA
    Prof. Hussein Mouftah              Queens University, Canada
    Prof. Jean-Yves Le-Boudec          EPFL, Switzerland
    Dr. Bassam Hashem                  Nortel Networks
    Dr. PeiYing Zhu                    Nortel Networks
    Dr. Chatschik Bisdikian         IBM Watson Lab.
    Prof. Per Gunningberg              Uppsala U, Sweden



From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Thu Feb 21 09:35:35 2002
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Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 14:11:04 +0200
From: Manel Guerrero Zapata <manel.guerrero-zapata@nokia.com>
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To: Aodvimpl-Public <aodvimpl-public@lists.sourceforge.net>,
        manet <manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil>,
        "Perkins Charles (IPRG)" <charliep@iprg.nokia.com>,
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Subject: Route expiry in AODV v10
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Hi everybody :)

Correct me if I'm mistaken:

The former 'Route Expiry and Route Deletion' section has been merged with the
'Route Error messages'. And now the draft is wroten in such a way that the
actions to be taken when a route expires are only taken when a RRER is
generated.

And, this is wrong because a route can expire just because it times out.

Am I missing something?

BR/Manel Guerrerro




From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Fri Feb 22 01:09:36 2002
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To: charliep@iprg.nokia.com, manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil
Cc: adhoc@krv6.net
Subject: Question of AODV
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 12:43:50 +0900
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Hello,

I am a researcher of ETRI in Korea.
I have a plan to implement IPv6 AODV and Multicast routing protocol of AODV.
I would like to know the status related to IPv6 AODV and AODV Multicast
routing protocol.
I also want to know if  MANET WG will produce RFCs of IPv6 AODV and AODV
Multicast routing protocol.
Could anyone comment?
Thanks a lot.

Regards,
Jaehoon

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<P><FONT SIZE=2>Hello,</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>I am a researcher of ETRI in Korea.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>I have a plan to implement IPv6 AODV and Multicast routing protocol of AODV.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>I would like to know the status related to IPv6 AODV and AODV Multicast routing protocol.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>I also want to know if&nbsp; MANET WG will produce RFCs of IPv6 AODV and AODV Multicast routing protocol.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Could anyone comment?</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Thanks a lot.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>Regards,</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Jaehoon</FONT>
</P>

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From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Fri Feb 22 01:26:08 2002
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Hello Jaehoon,

AODV for IPv6, and MAODV are not manet working group
documents.  It is not easy to tell if they might become working
group documents in the future.  However, there are implementations
for both of them, and a good way for documents to be taken up
as working group documents is for there to be more implementations.
I also think it would be considered appropriate for you to discuss
your experiences on the working group mailing list.

Thanks for your interest.

Regards,
Charlie P.



paul@etri.re.kr wrote:

>
>
> Hello,
>
> I am a researcher of ETRI in Korea.
> I have a plan to implement IPv6 AODV and Multicast routing protocol of
> AODV.
> I would like to know the status related to IPv6 AODV and AODV
> Multicast routing protocol.
> I also want to know if  MANET WG will produce RFCs of IPv6 AODV and
> AODV Multicast routing protocol.
> Could anyone comment?
> Thanks a lot.
>
> Regards,
> Jaehoon



From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Fri Feb 22 04:50:07 2002
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Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 02:25:58 -0500 (EST)
From: Yih-Chun Hu <yihchun@cs.cmu.edu>
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We submitted our latest Internet-Draft (draft-ietf-manet-dsr-07.txt) 
today; we consider this to be a work-in-progress as we converge on a solid
document to send to the IESG. This draft can be found at
http://monarch.cs.rice.edu/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-manet-dsr-07.txt

The differences between -06 and -07 represent the major changes that have
been suggested as improvements to the draft. Though we invite comment on
this current iteration of the draft, but would like an opportunity to
further revise this document before the Last Call. 

Thanks,
Yih-Chun




From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Fri Feb 22 12:22:38 2002
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From: Yuguang Fang <fang@ece.ufl.edu>
To: Yuguang Fang <fang@ece.ufl.edu>
Cc: "Professor Mohammad S. Obaidat" <obaidat@monmouth.edu>
Subject: SCS SPECTS'2002 deadline is approaching!!!
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Dear Colleagues, 

The deadline is about one week away, you may want to wrap up 
your paper during the weekend and send it to us before the deadline. 

Do bear in mind that this symposium is also a part of the celebration of 
the 50 Years Anniversary of Society for Computer Simulation (SCS) International 

Michael Fang 

Submission Deadline: February 28, 2002
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
(We apologize for the inconvenience this message may cause if 
you receive multiple copies) 

Call For Papers

2002 International Symposium on Performance Evaluation of Computer and
Telecommunication Systems
SPECTS 2002


July 14-19, 2002
U. S. Grant Hotel
San Diego, California, USA

http://www.scs.org/confernc/spects02/


This annual international conference is a forum for professionals
involved in performance evaluation of computer and telecommunication
systems. Evaluation of computer systems and networks is needed at every
stage in the life cycle of the product including design, manufacturing,
sales/purchase, use, upgrade, tuning, etc. The discipline of performance
evaluation has progressed rapidly in the past decade, and it has now
begun to approach maturity. Significant progress has been made in
analytic modeling, simulation, and measurement approaches for
performance evaluation of computer and telecommunication systems.

Topics of interest include, but are not limited to:

Networking and Telecommunication Systems
- Internet Technology
- Quality of Service (QoS)
- DiffServ/IntServ
- TCP
- Unicast and Multicast Routing
- High-Speed Networking
- ATM
- Optical Networks
- Switching Techniques
- Teletraffic
- Satellite Systems and Networks
- Wireless Systems
- UMTS/IMT-2000
- Mobile Networks/Computing
- Multimedia Systems
- Multimedia Communications
- Adaptive Communications
- Network Protocols
- Network Management and Control
- Network Capacity Planning
- Network Architecture Evaluation
- Service and QoS Pricing
- Security and Authentication
- World Wide Web (WWW) Technology
- Electronic Commerce


Computer Systems
- Client/Server
- Microprocessors/Microcomputers
- Memory Systems
- Interconnection Networks
- Software Performance
- Software Evaluation and Testing
- Hardware and Software Monitors
- High-Performance Computing
- Workload and Traffic Characterization
- Scientific Computing Algorithms
- High Performance I/O
- Reconfigurable Computing
-Real-time Systems
- Parallel and Distributed Computing
- Distributed Systems and Agents
- Massively Parallel Systems
- Cluster Computing
- Parallel Algorithms and Languages
- Scheduling Schemes


Tools, Methodologies and Applications
- Parallel and Distributed Simulation
- Verification and Validation
- Performance Tools and Methodologies
- Neural Networks and Fuzzy Logic Applications to High Performance
  Computing/Networking
- Performance Optimization
- Queueing Systems and Networks
- Scalability Studies
- Integrated Modeling and Measurement
- On-Line Performance Adaptation and Tuning
- Process Algebra-Based Models
- Performance Bounds
- Integrated Design and Performance
- New Performance Models
- Mathematical Aspects of Performance
- New Performability Schemes and Models
- Case Studies


General Chair
Mohammad S. Obaidat
Dept. of Computer Science, Monmouth University
W. Long Branch, NJ 07764, USA
Tel +1-732-571-4482
Fax +1-732-263-5202
E-mail: obaidat@monmouth.edu


Senior Program Chair
Franco Davoli
DIST-University of Genoa
Via Opera Pia 13, I-16145 Genoa, Italy
Tel +39-010-353-2732
Fax +39-010-353-2154
E-Mail: franco@dist.unige.it

Program Co-Chairs
Ibrahim Onyuksel
Dept. of Computer Sciences, N. Illinois Univ., USA
E-mail: onyuksel@cs.niu.edu

Raffaele Bolla
DIST-University of Genoa
Via Opera Pia 13, I-16145 Genoa, Italy
E-mail: lelus@dist.unige.it

Vice Program Chair
Erina Ferro  
CNUCE, Institute of National Research Council (C.N.R.)
C.N.R. Pisa Research Area, Building B, Room 73        
Via G. Moruzzi, 1                                     
56124 Pisa, Italy   
E-mail: erina.ferro@cnuce.cnr.it

Industrial Track Chair
J. Fox, Motorola Inc., UK
E-mail: fox.ijcs@btinternet.com

Publicity Chair
Yuguang (Michael) Fang, University of Florida, USA, E-mail: fang@ece.ufl.edu

Web Master:
Daniel Lee, University of Southern California, E-mail: dclee@rcf-fs.usc.edu


Technical Program Committee

Jagan  P. Agrawal, University of Missouri - Kansas City, USA
Ian Akyildiz, Georgia Tech., USA
M. Atiquzzaman, University of Oklahoma, USA
Harmen R. van As, Vienna University of Technology, Austria
Louis G. Birta, University of Ottawa, Canada
Noureddine Boudriga, University of Tunis, Tunisia
Hasan Cam, Arizona State University, USA
Andrew Campbell, Columbia University, USA
Fabio M. Chiussi, Bell Laboratories, Lucent Technologies, USA
Hassan B. Diab, American University of Beirut, Lebanon
Gabor Fodor, Ericsson Radio Systems, Sweden
John Fox, Motorola, UK
Luigi Fratta, Politecnico di Milano, Italy
Aura Ganz, University of Massachusetts, USA
Erol Gelenbe, University of Central Florida, USA
Mario Gerla, UCLA, USA
Omar Hammami, ENSTA, France
Jarmo Harju, Tampere University of Technology, Finland
Herman Hughes, Michigan State University, USA
Andrzej Jajszczyk, University of Mining and Metallurgy, Poland
Ingemar Kaj, Uppsala University, Sweden
Helen Karatza, Aristotle University of Thessalonica, Greece
Demetrios Kazakos, University of Louisiana, USA	
Ulrich Killat, Tech Univ. of Hamburg, Germany
Tag Gon Kim, KAIST, Korea
Belka Kraimeche, Stevens Institute of Technology, USA
Paul J. Kuehn, University of Stuttgart, Germany
Kevin Kwiat, Air Force Research Laboratory, USA
Veronica Lagrange M. Reis, Compaq Computers Corp., USA
Axel Lehmann, Universität der Bundeswehr München, Germany
Daniel C. Lee, USC, USA
Mike T. Liu, Ohio State University, USA
Imad Mahgoub, Florida Atlantic University, USA
Sam Makki, Queensland University of Technology, Australia
Krzysztof Malinowski, Warsaw Technical University, Poland
Jose L. Marzo, Universitat de Girona, Spain
Xiannong Meng, Bucknell University, USA 
Hussein Mouftah, Queen's University, Canada
M. Ould-Khaoua, University of Glasgow, UK
Sergio Palazzo, Università di Catania, Italy
Georgios I. Papadimitriou, Aristotle University, Greece
Achille Pattavina, Politecnico di Milano, Italy
Krzysztof Pawlikowski, University of Canterbury, New Zealand
Steven Pink, University of Arizona, USA
George Polyzos, AUEB, Greece
Ramon Puigjaner, Universitat de les Illes Balears, Spain 
Kaliappa Ravindran, CUNY, USA
Gian Paolo Rossi, Università di Milano, Italy
Izhak Rubin, UCLA, USA
Donald Schilling, CUNY, USA
Jens B. Schmitt, TU Darmstadt, Germany
C. Tim Spracklen, Aberdeen University, UK
Tatsuya Suda, UCI, USA
Iwao Toda, Fujutsu Laboratories Ltd., Japan
Phuoc Tran-Gia, University of Wuerzburg, Germany
Kenneth S. Vastola, Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, USA
Manuel Villen-Altamirano, Telefonica, Spain
Bernd E. Wolfinger, Hamburg University, Germany
Michele Zorzi, Università di Ferrara, Italy

International Liaisons
B. Sadoun, Al-Balqa' Applied University, Jordan
Bsadoun@go.com.jo
M. Sawan, Montreal Poly, Canada
Sawan@vlsi.polymtl.ca
N. Tchamov, Tampere Univ. of Technology, Finland
Nikolay@cs.tut.fi

Publicity Committee:
Hideki Tode, Osaka Univ., Japan, E-mail: Tode@ise.eng.osaka-u.ac.jp
Nusseirat, Al-Isra University, Jordan, E-mail: anuseirat@firstnet.com.jo

Paper Submission
Submit your complete papers electronically to: 

http://scs.proceedingscentral.com/

All required instructions will be posted on this web site. Submissions 
should not exceed 25 double-spaced, 8.5x11 inch pages (including figures, 
tables, and references) in 10-12 point font. Include five to ten keywords, 
complete postal and e-mail addresses, and fax and phone numbers of 
corresponding author. If you have difficulty in electronic submission, 
contact the Web Master, Program Chairs or the Conference Coordinator, 
Mr. Steve Branch, The Society for Modeling and Simulation International, 
4838 Ronson Court, Suite L, San Diego, CA  92111, USA, Tel 858-277-3888, 
Fax 858-277-3930, E-mail sbranch@scs.org sbranch@scs.org.

Extended versions of accepted papers in SPECTS 2002 will be considered for 
possible publication in scholarly journals. Proposals for tutorials, special 
and panel sessions should be sent to the Conference Senior Program Chair. 
Proposals for industrial sessions should be submitted to the Industrial 
Track Chair.

For more information regarding presentations or exhibitions at SPECTS 2002 
contact: Mr. Steve Branch at the address shown above.

Deadlines
Submission of Papers:  Extended to February 28, 2002. 
Notification of Acceptance - April 22, 2002
Final Camera-Ready Submission - May 22, 2002

Sponsored by The Society for Modeling and Simulation International.




-- 
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
Yuguang "Michael" Fang, Ph.D 
Assistant Professor 
Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering
University of Florida 
435 Engineering Building, P.O.Box 116130
Gainesville, FL 32611
Tel: (352) 846-3043, Fax: (352) 392-0044
Email: fang@ece.ufl.edu, http://www.fang.ece.ufl.edu 
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%


From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Sat Feb 23 12:29:42 2002
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Yih-Chun Hu <yihchun@cs.cmu.edu>
cc: manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil
Subject: Re: New DSR Draft
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.3.95L.1020222021532.18030G-100000@ux6.sp.cs.cmu.edu>
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On Fri, 22 Feb 2002, Yih-Chun Hu wrote:
> We submitted our latest Internet-Draft (draft-ietf-manet-dsr-07.txt) 
> today; we consider this to be a work-in-progress as we converge on a solid
> document to send to the IESG. This draft can be found at
> http://monarch.cs.rice.edu/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-manet-dsr-07.txt
> 
> The differences between -06 and -07 represent the major changes that have
> been suggested as improvements to the draft. Though we invite comment on
> this current iteration of the draft, but would like an opportunity to
> further revise this document before the Last Call. 

I read -06 a week ago because I'll have to write a paper about it in a
month or so.. and let's just say I didn't like what I read (everybody must
trust everybody 100%, changing IP to be a reliable protocol by
retransmissions, total incompatibility with anything like IPSEC,
piggybacking data and routing control, forcing every router to look into
DSR header killing "fast path" etc.); it seemed to be a nice piece of
academic work, "mental masturbation" some might say, but totally
unapplicable in any real use except, perhaps, for some very special cases
where the assumptions hold (perhaps some military networks).

But then again, this was a first manet draft I read, so perhaps all of 
them are more or less of the same.

I'll try to give more concrete feedback within some weeks but I'm not sure
if that's going to help any as the basic assumptions seem to vary quite a
bit.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords





From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Sat Feb 23 17:00:39 2002
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>I read -06 a week ago because I'll have to write a paper about it in a
>month or so.. and let's just say I didn't like what I read (everybody must
>trust everybody 100%, 

This is a given in manet. A number of groups are working on security right
now, but that is very much an area of research. Also consider how BGP is
implemented in the Internet today. Is that an unrealistic level of trust
as well?

>changing IP to be a reliable protocol by
>retransmissions, 

We're not trying to make IP reliable; the retransmissions are for the
purposes of neighbor detection. This is clarified in -07, where only the
neighbor reachability acknowledgements are retransmitted.

>total incompatibility with anything like IPSEC,

I don't see how it's completely incompatible with IPsec. Anything below
the DSR header can be encrypted or authenticated, in the same way as
Hop-By-Hop options in IPv6 are normalized before AH processing.

>piggybacking data and routing control, 

I fail to see how this is a problem. How is this different from, say, IPv6
Routing Headers?

>forcing every router to look into
>DSR header killing "fast path" etc

You're only checking the IP Protocol number for default flow forwarding
(dsrflow-00). Furthermore, if you need to run a manet routing protocol on
superfast links where you actually need fast path, you should seriously
consider RIP or DSDV; it's precisely those cases where you can just throw
bandwidth at the problem. Furthermore, all of manet by definition either
sacrifices fast path performance or kills scalability due to lack of
address aggregation, so mindlessly evaluating manet protocols from an
Internet routing requirements document isn't meaningful. 

>.); it seemed to be a nice piece of
>academic work, [...] but totally
>unapplicable in any real use except, perhaps, for some very special cases
>where the assumptions hold (perhaps some military networks).

If you don't believe the assumptions, perhaps other IETF working groups in
the routing area would interest you more. Most of the people actively
working in the manet WG would strongly disagree with you on this point,
and in each of our research papers on the area, we stress the scenarios
where ad hoc networks may be applicable. Our papers can be found at:
	http://monarch.cs.rice.edu/papers.html

>But then again, this was a first manet draft I read, so perhaps all of 
>them are more or less of the same.
>
>I'll try to give more concrete feedback within some weeks but I'm not sure
>if that's going to help any as the basic assumptions seem to vary quite a
>bit.
>
>-- 
>Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
>Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
>Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords



From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Sat Feb 23 18:55:58 2002
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Hi,

> >I read -06 a week ago because I'll have to write a paper about it in a
> >month or so.. and let's just say I didn't like what I read (everybody must
> >trust everybody 100%, 
> 
> This is a given in manet. A number of groups are working on security right
> now, but that is very much an area of research. Also consider how BGP is
> implemented in the Internet today. Is that an unrealistic level of trust
> as well?

In order to implement Secure Routing, there is *no* need for full
trust relations among the nodes (i.e., no everyone has to trust
everyone else).

For more inofrmation, see the Secure Routing Protocol (SRP):

P.Papadimitratos and Z.J. Haas, "Secure Routing for Mobile Ad Hoc
Networks,"  SCS Communication Networks and Distributed Systems Modeling
and Simulation Conference (CNDS 2002), San Antonio, TX, January 27-31,
2002.

You can download it from our WNL web page.

Enjoy!

Zygmunt.
==-=-====
~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
Prof. Zygmunt J. Haas                    http://people.ece.cornell.edu/haas 
Wireless Networks Laboratory		 http://wnl.ece.cornell.edu
School of Electrical Engineering         
Cornell University			 tel: +1-607-255-3454
323 Frank Rhodes Hall			 fax: +1-607-255-9072
Ithaca, NY 14853			 e-mail: haas@ece.cornell.edu
U.S.A                             
	WNL web page: http://wnl.ece.cornell.edu
~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-



From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Sat Feb 23 19:33:57 2002
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From: Pekka Savola <pekkas@netcore.fi>
To: Yih-Chun Hu <yihchun@cs.cmu.edu>
cc: manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil
Subject: Re: New DSR Draft
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.3.95L.1020223142043.13602A-100000@ux6.sp.cs.cmu.edu>
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I had wanted to avoid further comments for a few weeks, but I'll comment 
on a few issues.

On Sat, 23 Feb 2002, Yih-Chun Hu wrote:
> >total incompatibility with anything like IPSEC,
> 
> I don't see how it's completely incompatible with IPsec. Anything below
> the DSR header can be encrypted or authenticated, in the same way as
> Hop-By-Hop options in IPv6 are normalized before AH processing.

Source/destination addresses are usually included in IPSEC ICV
calculations, and AFAIR these can change in transit (I recall some oddness 
with 255.255.255.255 at least, but not sure).

By the way, have you considered whether wide-scale use of 255.255.255.255 
is a good idea?  If it's supposed to work off-link, I sense a new 
directed-broadcast -style attack wave coming (using routing header as a 
reflector from the remote router).
 
> >piggybacking data and routing control, 
> 
> I fail to see how this is a problem. How is this different from, say, IPv6
> Routing Headers?

Routing Headers aren't significantly overwritten in the process of being
transferred around the network.  AFAIR, whole DSR options can be removed
or added while in transit.

Note that if above is true, this could be rather problematic from Path MTU 
discovery perspective.

There are some issues with routing headers, by the way, especially in 
production networks:

http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-savola-ipv6-rh-ha-security-01.txt

most of these don't probably apply to the DSR scenario.
 
> >forcing every router to look into
> >DSR header killing "fast path" etc
> 
> You're only checking the IP Protocol number for default flow forwarding
> (dsrflow-00). Furthermore, if you need to run a manet routing protocol on
> superfast links where you actually need fast path, you should seriously
> consider RIP or DSDV; it's precisely those cases where you can just throw
> bandwidth at the problem. Furthermore, all of manet by definition either
> sacrifices fast path performance or kills scalability due to lack of
> address aggregation, so mindlessly evaluating manet protocols from an
> Internet routing requirements document isn't meaningful. 

Another, related problem: all routers must support DSR, else they can't
dig into DSR header's options and see if they should process the header.
(as the router is not the destination address of the packets.)
 
> >.); it seemed to be a nice piece of
> >academic work, [...] but totally
> >unapplicable in any real use except, perhaps, for some very special cases
> >where the assumptions hold (perhaps some military networks).
> 
> If you don't believe the assumptions, 

For example, you refer to 802.11 as a potential technique, rely solely on 
the security of the link-layer, but we all know that for practical 
purposes there exists none in 802.11.

-- 
Pekka Savola                 "Tell me of difficulties surmounted,
Netcore Oy                   not those you stumble over and fall"
Systems. Networks. Security.  -- Robert Jordan: A Crown of Swords





From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Sat Feb 23 19:33:57 2002
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> By no means do I intend to belittle recent progress in the area of
> practical, secure routing mechanisms for ad hoc networks; I'm only
> pointing out that _none_ of the current manet WG IDs do an acceptable job
> of providing security, and that for some time to come (at least a year or
> two) none of the proposed secure protocols make sense as Experimental
> RFCs. 

Hmmm, to backup such a strong claim, you would need to show that there
is a substantial flaw in *every* secure routing mechanisms proposed there.
This might be tough call ....

I agree with you that various of those schemes have different assumptions-
some more realistic than others. (For instance, as opposed to other
works, our scheme has the salient features that it does not require
security binding between *intermediate* nodes; only between the "source"
and the "destination".) But even if some of the assumptions in some
schemes (others, not ours (:-)), make less than realistic assumption, I
feel that your statement that "none_ of the current manet WG IDs do an
acceptable job of providing security" is a bit too harsh. Wouldn't you
agree?

Zygmunt.
==--=-==-==
~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
Prof. Zygmunt J. Haas                    http://people.ece.cornell.edu/haas 
Wireless Networks Laboratory		 http://wnl.ece.cornell.edu
School of Electrical Engineering         
Cornell University			 tel: +1-607-255-3454
323 Frank Rhodes Hall			 fax: +1-607-255-9072
Ithaca, NY 14853			 e-mail: haas@ece.cornell.edu
U.S.A                             
	WNL web page: http://wnl.ece.cornell.edu
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> 
> >> This is a given in manet. A number of groups are working on security right
> >> now, but that is very much an area of research. Also consider how BGP is
> >> implemented in the Internet today. Is that an unrealistic level of trust
> >> as well?
> >
> >In order to implement Secure Routing, there is *no* need for full
> >trust relations among the nodes (i.e., no everyone has to trust
> >everyone else).
> 
> Also,
> Radia Perlman. Network Layer Protocols with Byzantine Robustness.
> Technical Report, MIT Laboratory for Computer Science #429, October 1988.
> 
> Manel Guerrero Zapata. Secure Ad hoc On-Demand Distance Vector (SAODV)
> Routing. IETF MANET Mailing List, Message-ID: 
> 3BC17B40.BBF52E09@nokia.com, URL: 
> ftp://manet.itd.nrl.navy.mil/pub/manet/2001-10.mail, October 8, 2001. 
> 
> Bridget Dahill, Brian Neil Levine, Elizabeth Royer, and Clay Shields. A
> Secure Routing Protocol for Ad Hoc Networks, Technical
> Report UM-CS-2001-037, University of Michigan, August 2001.
> 
> Seung Yi, Prasad Naldurg and Robin Kravets. Security-Aware Ad hoc Routing
> for Wireless Networks. Technical Report UIUCDCS-R-2001-2241, UIUC, August
> 2001.
> 
> My point is that none of these papers have been out long enough or
> publicized well enough or independantly tested using simulation and
> implementation to be a serious candidate within manet at the present time. 
> Furthermore, no single manet-wide threat model has ever been defined, so
> if you adopt the no node compromise model, MAC layer encryption with
> integrity is sufficient, and if you assume no single trusted entity, you
> need a PGP-style web-of-trust for certificates.
> 
> By no means do I intend to belittle recent progress in the area of
> practical, secure routing mechanisms for ad hoc networks; I'm only
> pointing out that _none_ of the current manet WG IDs do an acceptable job
> of providing security, and that for some time to come (at least a year or
> two) none of the proposed secure protocols make sense as Experimental
> RFCs. 
> 
> Yih-Chun
> 



From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Sat Feb 23 19:34:04 2002
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From: Yih-Chun Hu <yihchun@cs.cmu.edu>
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>> This is a given in manet. A number of groups are working on security right
>> now, but that is very much an area of research. Also consider how BGP is
>> implemented in the Internet today. Is that an unrealistic level of trust
>> as well?
>
>In order to implement Secure Routing, there is *no* need for full
>trust relations among the nodes (i.e., no everyone has to trust
>everyone else).

Also,
Radia Perlman. Network Layer Protocols with Byzantine Robustness.
Technical Report, MIT Laboratory for Computer Science #429, October 1988.

Manel Guerrero Zapata. Secure Ad hoc On-Demand Distance Vector (SAODV)
Routing. IETF MANET Mailing List, Message-ID: 
3BC17B40.BBF52E09@nokia.com, URL: 
ftp://manet.itd.nrl.navy.mil/pub/manet/2001-10.mail, October 8, 2001. 

Bridget Dahill, Brian Neil Levine, Elizabeth Royer, and Clay Shields. A
Secure Routing Protocol for Ad Hoc Networks, Technical
Report UM-CS-2001-037, University of Michigan, August 2001.

Seung Yi, Prasad Naldurg and Robin Kravets. Security-Aware Ad hoc Routing
for Wireless Networks. Technical Report UIUCDCS-R-2001-2241, UIUC, August
2001.

My point is that none of these papers have been out long enough or
publicized well enough or independantly tested using simulation and
implementation to be a serious candidate within manet at the present time. 
Furthermore, no single manet-wide threat model has ever been defined, so
if you adopt the no node compromise model, MAC layer encryption with
integrity is sufficient, and if you assume no single trusted entity, you
need a PGP-style web-of-trust for certificates.

By no means do I intend to belittle recent progress in the area of
practical, secure routing mechanisms for ad hoc networks; I'm only
pointing out that _none_ of the current manet WG IDs do an acceptable job
of providing security, and that for some time to come (at least a year or
two) none of the proposed secure protocols make sense as Experimental
RFCs. 

Yih-Chun



From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Sat Feb 23 20:20:15 2002
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>> I don't see how it's completely incompatible with IPsec. Anything below
>> the DSR header can be encrypted or authenticated, in the same way as
>> Hop-By-Hop options in IPv6 are normalized before AH processing.
>
>Source/destination addresses are usually included in IPSEC ICV
>calculations, and AFAIR these can change in transit (I recall some oddness 
>with 255.255.255.255 at least, but not sure).

Nope. DSR doesn't change these in transit (or if it does, for route
request piggyback, it'll change them back before delivery to IP).

>By the way, have you considered whether wide-scale use of 255.255.255.255 
>is a good idea?  If it's supposed to work off-link, I sense a new 
>directed-broadcast -style attack wave coming (using routing header as a 
>reflector from the remote router).

That's filterable. A good point, though, for the (I think several) groups
here working on internet bridging. In any case, manet has considered a
1-hop all manet nodes multicast address. I don't know the status of that.
If it's there, we should use it. If not, maybe we should make one.

>> I fail to see how this is a problem. How is this different from, say, IPv6
>> Routing Headers?
>
>Routing Headers aren't significantly overwritten in the process of being
>transferred around the network.  AFAIR, whole DSR options can be removed
>or added while in transit.

Entire options, yes, but generally the header will stay intact. In almost
all cases, any options will stick around. A few (ie acknowledgement) are
hop-by-hop, but they're rarely used in typical networks (MACA/MACAW style
MAC, bidirectional, ...).  IPv6 Source Route headers have addresses
swapped around inside, so that's some amount of change. I'm wondering if
there's any practical difference between (occasional) substantial change
and consistant "slight" change.

>Note that if above is true, this could be rather problematic from Path MTU 
>discovery perspective.

Understood. But there are standard tricks that can be played with Path MTU
discovery. And as long as a single route is being used, Path MTU works
just fine. Just as in the Real World, when the route changes, the MTU
might as well.

>> bandwidth at the problem. Furthermore, all of manet by definition either
>> sacrifices fast path performance or kills scalability due to lack of
>> address aggregation, so mindlessly evaluating manet protocols from an
>> Internet routing requirements document isn't meaningful. 
>
>Another, related problem: all routers must support DSR, else they can't
>dig into DSR header's options and see if they should process the header.
>(as the router is not the destination address of the packets.)

(This is another point I spoke too quickly on. AODV provides some level
of address aggregation, but the protocol as currently specified doesn't
provide dynamic aggregation. As a result, nodes within an aggregated route
record must be routable from the replier.)

Yes, all routers must support DSR. Just like all Internet gateway routers
must support BGP. Most routing protocols work this way, right?

>> If you don't believe the assumptions, 
>
>For example, you refer to 802.11 as a potential technique, rely solely on 
>the security of the link-layer, but we all know that for practical 
>purposes there exists none in 802.11.

Yes, yes, 802.11 has woeful security problems. Even if you addressed
issues like WEP, DOS attacks are trivial. Link-layer encryption should be
"correctly" implemented at some point; otherwise, several, less-reviewed,
incompatible layers could be added to 
	{DSR,AODV,TBRPF,OLSR,FSR,IERP,IARP,BRP,LANMAR}, 
or we could all agree on a manet-wide security shim. Not that I'm at all
biased about which solution I prefer ;) 

Yih-Chun



From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Sat Feb 23 20:46:52 2002
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>> By no means do I intend to belittle recent progress in the area of
>> practical, secure routing mechanisms for ad hoc networks; I'm only
>> pointing out that _none_ of the current manet WG IDs do an acceptable job
>> of providing security, and that for some time to come (at least a year or
>> two) none of the proposed secure protocols make sense as Experimental
>> RFCs. 
>
>Hmmm, to backup such a strong claim, you would need to show that there
>is a substantial flaw in *every* secure routing mechanisms proposed there.
>This might be tough call ....

No, I'm saying that it'll take a year for any of these protocols to mature
and be well-enough cooked for WG consensus on publication as an
Experimental RFC. The sense of time referred to the RFC, not to the work.

>I agree with you that various of those schemes have different assumptions-
>some more realistic than others. (For instance, as opposed to other
>works, our scheme has the salient features that it does not require
>security binding between *intermediate* nodes; only between the "source"
>and the "destination".) 

I generally agree that that's a good assumption. Having certificates for
all nodes may be reasonable as well, and the you can use those certs to
set up a security association on-demand. Your earlier work with multiple
CAs, however, may be a more conservative assumption, and the
military-types may like that, instead.

>But even if some of the assumptions in some
>schemes (others, not ours (:-)), make less than realistic assumption, I
>feel that your statement that "none_ of the current manet WG IDs do an
>acceptable job of providing security" is a bit too harsh. Wouldn't you
>agree?

The current manet WG IDs
(http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/manet-charter.html) 
are:

http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-manet-aodv-10.txt
  which says "Currently, AODV does not specify any special security
  measures"
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-manet-tora-spec-04.txt
  which says "TBD" under Security Considerations
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-manet-dsr-07.txt
  the draft that sparked this... discussion
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-manet-olsr-05.txt
  which has no security considerations section
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-manet-tbrpf-04.txt
  which vaguely alludes to using IPsec to cover all evil
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-manet-lanmar-03.txt
  which has no security considerations section
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-manet-simple-mbcast-01.txt
  the same cop out as the DSR draft
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-manet-fsr-02.txt
  which has no security considerations section
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-manet-zone-ierp-01.txt
  which has no security considerations section
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-manet-zone-iarp-01.txt
  which has no security considerations section
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-manet-zone-brp-01.txt
  which has no security considerations section
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-manet-dsrflow-00.txt
  the same cop out as the DSR draft
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-manet-bcast-00.txt
  "It does not make any provision for securing the contents of the flooded
   data, either to protect against tampering or to protect against
   unauthorized inspection of the data."

Which one of these provides acceptable security?

I'm not trying to downplay anyone's work in secure routing, or in general
ad hoc network routing. It's very possible that your work or any of the
other group's work could provide acceptable security in a number of
environments. I'm just (rather bluntly) stating that this is a young and
not very well understood area. There is good work in this area, and work
is progressing, but to say that the community at large has confidence in
any one protocol would be premature.

Yih-Chun

>~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
>Prof. Zygmunt J. Haas                    http://people.ece.cornell.edu/haas 
>Wireless Networks Laboratory		 http://wnl.ece.cornell.edu
>School of Electrical Engineering         
>Cornell University			 tel: +1-607-255-3454
>323 Frank Rhodes Hall			 fax: +1-607-255-9072
>Ithaca, NY 14853			 e-mail: haas@ece.cornell.edu
>U.S.A                             
>	WNL web page: http://wnl.ece.cornell.edu
>~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-



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--====_ABC123456j7890DEF_====--


From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Mon Feb 25 05:11:25 2002
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From: "David Simplot" <David.Simplot@lifl.fr>
To: "'MEDDOUR Djamal Eddine thesard FTRD/DAC/LAN'" <djamaleddine.meddour@rd.francetelecom.com>,
        <manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil>
Subject: RE : others cretaria in MANET routing protocol
Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 08:36:49 +0100
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You are right: perhaps we can consider the "robustness" of the generated
route... The definition of "robustness" could be the probability that
the route stays valid during a given time without route maintenance.
Notice that, in the general case, an optimal route (number of hops) is
not a robust one.
David.
--
David SIMPLOT
CNRS UPRESA 8022 - LIFL Univ. Lille 1 / IUP MIAGE Formation Continue
http://www.lifl.fr/~simplot=20

=20

-----Message d'origine-----
De : owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil [mailto:owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil]
De la part de MEDDOUR Djamal Eddine thesard FTRD/DAC/LAN
Envoy=E9 : mardi 19 f=E9vrier 2002 09:57
=C0 : manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil
Objet : others cretaria in MANET routing protocol


Hi all=20

The criteria of the choice of the optimal route is the number of hops,
do you think that it's sufficient? Why don't take in consideration some
other criteria like traffic load around node, node energy, node
capacity, ...

Any comments


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<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D416461922-24022002><SPAN=20
lang=3DEN-US=20
style=3D"COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; =
mso-ansi-language: EN-US">You=20
are right: perhaps we can consider the "robustness" of the generated =
route...=20
The definition of "robustness" could be the probability that the route =
stays=20
valid during a given time without route maintenance. Notice that, in the =
general=20
case, an optimal route (number of hops) is not a robust one.</SPAN><SPAN =

lang=3DEN-US style=3D"mso-ansi-language: EN-US"><?xml:namespace prefix =
=3D o ns =3D=20
"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office"=20
/><o:p></o:p></SPAN></SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial =
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class=3D416461922-24022002></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D416461922-24022002>David.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D416461922-24022002><!-- Converted from text/plain format -->
<P><FONT size=3D2>--<BR>David SIMPLOT<BR>CNRS UPRESA 8022 - LIFL Univ. =
Lille 1 /=20
IUP MIAGE Formation Continue<BR><A=20
href=3D"http://www.lifl.fr/~simplot">http://www.lifl.fr/~simplot</A>=20
</FONT></P></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
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style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
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  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV align=3Dleft class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr =
lang=3Dfr><FONT face=3DTahoma=20
  size=3D2>-----Message d'origine-----<BR><B>De&nbsp;:</B>=20
  owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil [mailto:owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil] =
<B>De la=20
  part de</B> MEDDOUR Djamal Eddine thesard =
FTRD/DAC/LAN<BR><B>Envoy=E9&nbsp;:</B>=20
  mardi 19 f=E9vrier 2002 09:57<BR><B>=C0&nbsp;:</B>=20
  manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil<BR><B>Objet&nbsp;:</B> others cretaria in MANET =
routing=20
  protocol<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial><SPAN class=3D139074808-19022002><SPAN=20
  style=3D"COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; =
mso-ansi-language: EN-GB">Hi=20
  all</SPAN><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial Unicode MS'; mso-ansi-language: EN-GB; =
mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN>=20

  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
  style=3D"COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; =
mso-ansi-language: EN-GB">The=20
  criteria of the choice of the optimal route is the&nbsp;number of =
hops, do you=20
  think that it's sufficient? Why don't take in consideration&nbsp;<SPAN =

  class=3D139074808-19022002>some </SPAN>other criteria like&nbsp;<SPAN=20
  class=3D139074808-19022002>traffic</SPAN> load<SPAN =
class=3D139074808-19022002>=20
  around node</SPAN>,&nbsp;<SPAN class=3D139074808-19022002>node =
</SPAN>energy,=20
  node capacity, ...</SPAN><SPAN=20
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  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
  style=3D"COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; =
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</SPAN><SPAN=20
  lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; =
mso-ansi-language: EN-US">comments</SPAN><SPAN=20
  =
lang=3DFR><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></SPAN></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY><=
/HTML>

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From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Mon Feb 25 05:23:45 2002
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Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 09:26:58 +0100 (MET)
From: Michael Bahr <michael.bahr@mchp.siemens.de>
To: owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil
cc: manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil
Subject: Virus in: Re: AW: column spanned in multicolumn region
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Hi all,

The email with subject "Re: AW: column spanned in multicolumn region" from
owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil contains the Nimda-virus.

Do not open the attachment. Anyway, it isn't a wav-file, its an exe-file
containing the virus.

Just throw the email away (and delete your "Deleted Messages Folder" as
well).

All the best,
Michael Bahr





From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Mon Feb 25 08:41:41 2002
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--NextPart

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Mobile Ad-hoc Networks Working Group of the IETF.

	Title		: The Dynamic Source Routing Protocol for Mobile Ad Hoc 
                          Networks (DSR)
	Author(s)	: D. Johnson, D. Maltz, Y. Hu, J. Jetcheva
	Filename	: draft-ietf-manet-dsr-07.txt
	Pages		: 81
	Date		: 22-Feb-02
	
The Dynamic Source Routing protocol (DSR) is a simple and efficient
routing protocol designed specifically for use in multi-hop wireless
ad hoc networks of mobile nodes.  DSR allows the network to be
completely self-organizing and self-configuring, without the need
for any existing network infrastructure or administration.  The
protocol is composed of the two mechanisms of 'Route Discovery'
and 'Route Maintenance', which work together to allow nodes to
discover and maintain source routes to arbitrary destinations in the
ad hoc network.  The use of source routing allows packet routing
to be trivially loop-free, avoids the need for up-to-date routing
information in the intermediate nodes through which packets are
forwarded, and allows nodes forwarding or overhearing packets to
cache the routing information in them for their own future use.  All
aspects of the protocol operate entirely on-demand, allowing the
routing packet overhead of DSR to scale automatically to only that
needed to react to changes in the routes currently in use.  This
document specifies the operation of the DSR protocol for routing
unicast IP packets in multi-hop wireless ad hoc networks.

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From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Mon Feb 25 09:28:53 2002
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Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 05:22:06 -0600
From: Dave Johnson <dbj@cs.rice.edu>
To: David Simplot <David.Simplot@lifl.fr>
Cc: "'MEDDOUR Djamal Eddine thesard FTRD/DAC/LAN'" <djamaleddine.meddour@rd.francetelecom.com>,
        manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil
Subject: Re: RE : others cretaria in MANET routing protocol
Message-ID: <20020225052206.A58153@maredsous.cs.rice.edu>
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References: <0489A7888F080B4BA73B53F7E145F29A03C054@LANMHS20.rd.francetelecom.fr> <001601c1bdcf$3c8edc80$100bce86@lifl.fr>
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The real problem is actually fairly complex.  Suggesting that
robustness may be more important than minimal hop count -- that you
care more that a route remains valid during a given time without need
for route maintenance -- seems to imply that route maintenance has
some significant harmful effect to a route in use, more so than the
extra overhead and latency and battery consumption caused by sending
packets over routes that involve more hops than are otherwise
necessary.  If, instead, route maintenance can be done quickly and
effeciently when needed, without significant disturbance to the flow
of packets from that source to that destination, then perhaps this
definition of robustness is less important.  I don't at all mean to
suggest that robustness actually is not important, but there are many
factors that affect the "optimal" choice of routes that any given
sender may want to use for any given type of traffic.

In our paper "Caching Strategies in On-Demand Routing Protocols for
Wireless Ad Hoc Network" at MobiCom 2000, one of our results was a
new route caching strategy in which a sending node selects from its
cache the route that it knows with minimum hop count to the
destination, but among those with that same hop count, it selects
the one that it believes will remain valid for the longest period
of time, based on its past observations of links involving the
nodes along that route.  This caching strategy, which we call
Link-MaxLife, performed overall better than other caches we
studied.  This cache is also the recommended cache in the DSR
Internet-Draft.  This MobiCom paper is available from our web site
at http://www.monarch.cs.rice.edu/monarch-papers/mobicom2000.pdf.

					Dave


David Simplot said:
> You are right: perhaps we can consider the "robustness" of the generated
> route... The definition of "robustness" could be the probability that
> the route stays valid during a given time without route maintenance.
> Notice that, in the general case, an optimal route (number of hops) is
> not a robust one.
> David.
> --
> David SIMPLOT
> CNRS UPRESA 8022 - LIFL Univ. Lille 1 / IUP MIAGE Formation Continue
> http://www.lifl.fr/~simplot 
> 
>  
> 
> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil [mailto:owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil]
> De la part de MEDDOUR Djamal Eddine thesard FTRD/DAC/LAN
> Envoyé : mardi 19 février 2002 09:57
> À : manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil
> Objet : others cretaria in MANET routing protocol
> 
> 
> Hi all 
> 
> The criteria of the choice of the optimal route is the number of hops,
> do you think that it's sufficient? Why don't take in consideration some
> other criteria like traffic load around node, node energy, node
> capacity, ...
> 
> Any comments
> 


From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Mon Feb 25 09:47:39 2002
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From: "Leo" <leosbox@hotmail.com>
To: "Michael Bahr" <michael.bahr@mchp.siemens.de>
Cc: <manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.00.10202250920120.2648-100000@york>
Subject: Re: Virus in: Re: AW: column spanned in multicolumn region
Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 07:18:05 -0500
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I agree.  Norton warned me of the attachment and identified it as Nimda.  I
assumed it was either a false alarm (since it has happened before; see link
below) or the real thing and just deleted it to be on the safe side.

http://www.informationweek.com/story/IWK20011113S0005

Cheers,

Leo

----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Bahr" <michael.bahr@mchp.siemens.de>
To: <owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil>
Cc: <manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil>
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 3:26 AM
Subject: Virus in: Re: AW: column spanned in multicolumn region


>
> Hi all,
>
> The email with subject "Re: AW: column spanned in multicolumn region" from
> owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil contains the Nimda-virus.
>
> Do not open the attachment. Anyway, it isn't a wav-file, its an exe-file
> containing the virus.
>
> Just throw the email away (and delete your "Deleted Messages Folder" as
> well).
>
> All the best,
> Michael Bahr
>
>
>
>


From daemon@optimus.ietf.org  Mon Feb 25 13:30:35 2002
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_______________________________________________
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From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Mon Feb 25 19:29:01 2002
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All:

We would like to solicit for additional agenda input from the WG for the upcoming Minneapolis meeting.

Thanks,
Joe n' Scott



From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Mon Feb 25 19:29:20 2002
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All:

I am moving the mailing list host to ietf.org soon (likely later this week, Wednesday or Thursday).  I will send out a message  on manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil when this is about to happen and will move everyone in bulk.

The new list will be manet@ietf.org.   Do not use it until you receive the welcome message.  You should also receive a welcome message and complete instructions once this happens.

the mailman...(not Karl Malone).



From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Mon Feb 25 22:35:37 2002
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Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 17:16:58 -0800
To: Dave Johnson <dbj@cs.rice.edu>
From: Fred Baker <fred@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: RE : others cretaria in MANET routing protocol
Cc: manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil
In-Reply-To: <20020225052206.A58153@maredsous.cs.rice.edu>
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 <0489A7888F080B4BA73B53F7E145F29A03C054@LANMHS20.rd.francetelecom.fr>
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At 03:22 AM 2/25/2002, Dave Johnson wrote:
>one of our results was a new route caching strategy in which a sending 
>node selects from its cache the route that it knows with minimum hop count 
>to the destination, but among those with that same hop count, it selects 
>the one that it believes will remain valid for the longest period of time, 
>based on its past observations of links involving the nodes along that route.

I'll argue that hop count in and of itself is a poor indicator.  Consider 
the following

         A--------------------->B
          ---------->C--------->

B and C can both hear A; C hears A with an excellent S/N Ratio and B hears 
A with a poor signal to noise ratio, such that a small percentage of 
packets (less than some threshold measured in percent) can actually 
traverse A->B. I will argue that A->C->B is much kinder to the application 
than A->B, so adding a hop creates a significantly improved route even 
though the smaller hop count would be nice.

It seems to me that hop count might be a tie-breaker amount routes of equal 
robustness, not the other way around.



From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Mon Feb 25 23:52:48 2002
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Hi All,

Fred Baker wrote:

> At 03:22 AM 2/25/2002, Dave Johnson wrote:
> >one of our results was a new route caching strategy in which a sending
> >node selects from its cache the route that it knows with minimum hop count
> >to the destination, but among those with that same hop count, it selects
> >the one that it believes will remain valid for the longest period of time,
> >based on its past observations of links involving the nodes along that route.
>
> I'll argue that hop count in and of itself is a poor indicator.  Consider
> the following
>
>          A--------------------->B
>           ---------->C--------->
>
> B and C can both hear A; C hears A with an excellent S/N Ratio and B hears
> A with a poor signal to noise ratio, such that a small percentage of
> packets (less than some threshold measured in percent) can actually
> traverse A->B. I will argue that A->C->B is much kinder to the application
> than A->B, so adding a hop creates a significantly improved route even
> though the smaller hop count would be nice.
>
> It seems to me that hop count might be a tie-breaker amount routes of equal
> robustness, not the other way around.

I agree with this argument.   We found this to be true on our testbed,
especially in indoor environments where multipath fading is severe.
We found that the link between A and B comes up and
down frequently, causing routing protocols (based on hop count) to
construct - deconstruct - construct ........ route continuosly over the link
since A and B think they have a 1-hop route each other.    When we
add more nodes (i.e., topology with more unreliable links), we found that
hop-based
MANET routing protocols spend most of their time trying to establish a route and
little
packets get through.   So, hop count is a poor metric, and we feel a combination
of
metrics such as link lifetimes (from radio and mobility perspectives), etc will be
more
suitable.

cheers,
kwan-wu



From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Tue Feb 26 07:54:25 2002
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Subject: Re: RE : others cretaria in MANET routing protocol
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This is where link hysteresis comes up. It allows to detect dangling
links and to ignore them so that hop count becomes a rather good metric.
See the advanced neighbor sensing section of OLSR draft for a short
description of link hysteresis.

laurent

Kwan-Wu Chin writes:
 > Hi All,
 > 
 > Fred Baker wrote:
 > 
 > > At 03:22 AM 2/25/2002, Dave Johnson wrote:
 > > >one of our results was a new route caching strategy in which a sending
 > > >node selects from its cache the route that it knows with minimum hop count
 > > >to the destination, but among those with that same hop count, it selects
 > > >the one that it believes will remain valid for the longest period of time,
 > > >based on its past observations of links involving the nodes along that route.
 > >
 > > I'll argue that hop count in and of itself is a poor indicator.  Consider
 > > the following
 > >
 > >          A--------------------->B
 > >           ---------->C--------->
 > >
 > > B and C can both hear A; C hears A with an excellent S/N Ratio and B hears
 > > A with a poor signal to noise ratio, such that a small percentage of
 > > packets (less than some threshold measured in percent) can actually
 > > traverse A->B. I will argue that A->C->B is much kinder to the application
 > > than A->B, so adding a hop creates a significantly improved route even
 > > though the smaller hop count would be nice.
 > >
 > > It seems to me that hop count might be a tie-breaker amount routes of equal
 > > robustness, not the other way around.
 > 
 > I agree with this argument.   We found this to be true on our testbed,
 > especially in indoor environments where multipath fading is severe.
 > We found that the link between A and B comes up and
 > down frequently, causing routing protocols (based on hop count) to
 > construct - deconstruct - construct ........ route continuosly over the link
 > since A and B think they have a 1-hop route each other.    When we
 > add more nodes (i.e., topology with more unreliable links), we found that
 > hop-based
 > MANET routing protocols spend most of their time trying to establish a route and
 > little
 > packets get through.   So, hop count is a poor metric, and we feel a combination
 > of
 > metrics such as link lifetimes (from radio and mobility perspectives), etc will be
 > more
 > suitable.
 > 
 > cheers,
 > kwan-wu
 > 


From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Tue Feb 26 10:01:33 2002
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From: "David Simplot" <David.Simplot@lifl.fr>
To: "'Chai Keong Toh'" <Chai.Toh@ece.gatech.edu>
Cc: <djamaleddine.meddour@rd.francetelecom.com>, <manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil>
Subject: RE : RE : others cretaria in MANET routing protocol
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 13:43:42 +0100
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Oupps, thank you: I have found the following reference

CK. Toh. Associativity based routing for ad hoc mobile networks.
Wireless Personal Communications Journal, Special Issue on Mobile
Networking and Computing Systems, Vol 4. No. 2, pp. 103-139, March 1997.
http://citeseer.nj.nec.com/495494.html

Perhaps there are some updates in chapter 6 ? :-)

Yours,
David.

> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : Chai Keong Toh [mailto:Chai.Toh@ece.gatech.edu] 
> Envoyé : lundi 25 février 2002 19:46
> À : David.Simplot@lifl.fr
> Cc : djamaleddine.meddour@rd.francetelecom.com; manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil
> Objet : Re: RE : others cretaria in MANET routing protocol
> 
> 
> David - This metric has already been defined by Associativity-Based
> Routing back in 1994. It claims that ther is no point in having a mere
> shortest hop routing if the route is unstable. It also defines a way
> to capture and quantify link and route stability. If you need more
> literatures, I would be happy to provide more.
> 
> C.K. Toh
> 
> ========
> > You are right: perhaps we can consider the "robustness" of the
> > generated route... The definition of "robustness" could be the
> > probability that the route stays valid during a given time without
> > route maintenance. Notice that, in the general case, an 
> optimal route
> > (number of hops) is not a robust one.
> > David.
> > --
> > David SIMPLOT
> > CNRS UPRESA 8022 - LIFL Univ. Lille 1 / IUP MIAGE Formation Continue
> > http://www.lifl.fr/~simplot 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -----Message d'origine-----
> > De : owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil 
> [mailto:owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil]
> > De la part de MEDDOUR 
> Djamal Eddine thesard FTRD/DAC/LAN
> > Envoyé : mardi 19 février 2002 09:57
> > À : manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil
> > Objet : others cretaria in MANET routing protocol
> > 
> > 
> > Hi all 
> > 
> > The criteria of the choice of the optimal route is the 
> number of hops,
> > do you think that it's sufficient? Why don't take in 
> consideration some
> > other criteria like traffic load around node, node energy, node
> > capacity, ...
> > 
> > Any comments
> 



From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Tue Feb 26 10:26:34 2002
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From: "David Simplot" <David.Simplot@lifl.fr>
To: <manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil>
Subject: TR : RE : others cretaria in MANET routing protocol
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 14:19:20 +0100
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It seems that this mail has been lost...

> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : David Simplot [mailto:David.Simplot@lifl.fr] 
> Envoyé : mardi 26 février 2002 13:44
> À : 'Chai Keong Toh'
> Cc : 'djamaleddine.meddour@rd.francetelecom.com'; 
> 'manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil'
> Objet : RE : RE : others cretaria in MANET routing protocol
> 
> 
> Oupps, thank you: I have found the following reference
> 
> CK. Toh. Associativity based routing for ad hoc mobile 
> networks. Wireless Personal Communications Journal, Special 
> Issue on Mobile Networking and Computing Systems, Vol 4. No. 
> 2, pp. 103-139, March 1997.
> http://citeseer.nj.nec.com/495494.html
> 
> Perhaps there are some updates in chapter 6 ? :-)
> 
> Yours,
> David.
> 
> > -----Message d'origine-----
> > De : Chai Keong Toh [mailto:Chai.Toh@ece.gatech.edu] 
> > Envoyé : lundi 25 février 2002 19:46
> > À : David.Simplot@lifl.fr
> > Cc : djamaleddine.meddour@rd.francetelecom.com; 
> manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil
> > Objet : Re: RE : others cretaria in MANET routing protocol
> > 
> > 
> > David - This metric has already been defined by Associativity-Based
> > Routing back in 1994. It claims that ther is no point in 
> having a mere
> > shortest hop routing if the route is unstable. It also defines a way
> > to capture and quantify link and route stability. If you need more
> > literatures, I would be happy to provide more.
> > 
> > C.K. Toh
> > 
> > ========
> > > You are right: perhaps we can consider the "robustness" of the
> > > generated route... The definition of "robustness" could be the
> > > probability that the route stays valid during a given time without
> > > route maintenance. Notice that, in the general case, an 
> > optimal route
> > > (number of hops) is not a robust one.
> > > David.
> > > --
> > > David SIMPLOT
> > > CNRS UPRESA 8022 - LIFL Univ. Lille 1 / IUP MIAGE 
> Formation Continue
> > > http://www.lifl.fr/~simplot 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > -----Message d'origine-----
> > > De : owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil 
> > [mailto:owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil]
> > > De la part de MEDDOUR 
> > Djamal Eddine thesard FTRD/DAC/LAN
> > > Envoyé : mardi 19 février 2002 09:57
> > > À : manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil
> > > Objet : others cretaria in MANET routing protocol
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Hi all 
> > > 
> > > The criteria of the choice of the optimal route is the 
> > number of hops,
> > > do you think that it's sufficient? Why don't take in 
> > consideration some
> > > other criteria like traffic load around node, node energy, node
> > > capacity, ...
> > > 
> > > Any comments
> > 
> 



From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Wed Feb 27 12:36:45 2002
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Hi laurent,

   Exactly.  We ended up doing hysterisis as well, but in our
implementation the routing protocol was oblivious to the
existence of the hysterisis.

   I'll look at the indicated section in the OLSR draft, thanks for
   the info.

cheers,
kwan-wu


Laurent Viennot wrote:

> This is where link hysteresis comes up. It allows to detect dangling
> links and to ignore them so that hop count becomes a rather good metric.
> See the advanced neighbor sensing section of OLSR draft for a short
> description of link hysteresis.
>
> laurent
>
> Kwan-Wu Chin writes:
>  > Hi All,
>  >
>  > Fred Baker wrote:
>  >
>  > > At 03:22 AM 2/25/2002, Dave Johnson wrote:
>  > > >one of our results was a new route caching strategy in which a sending
>  > > >node selects from its cache the route that it knows with minimum hop count
>  > > >to the destination, but among those with that same hop count, it selects
>  > > >the one that it believes will remain valid for the longest period of time,
>  > > >based on its past observations of links involving the nodes along that route.
>  > >
>  > > I'll argue that hop count in and of itself is a poor indicator.  Consider
>  > > the following
>  > >
>  > >          A--------------------->B
>  > >           ---------->C--------->
>  > >
>  > > B and C can both hear A; C hears A with an excellent S/N Ratio and B hears
>  > > A with a poor signal to noise ratio, such that a small percentage of
>  > > packets (less than some threshold measured in percent) can actually
>  > > traverse A->B. I will argue that A->C->B is much kinder to the application
>  > > than A->B, so adding a hop creates a significantly improved route even
>  > > though the smaller hop count would be nice.
>  > >
>  > > It seems to me that hop count might be a tie-breaker amount routes of equal
>  > > robustness, not the other way around.
>  >
>  > I agree with this argument.   We found this to be true on our testbed,
>  > especially in indoor environments where multipath fading is severe.
>  > We found that the link between A and B comes up and
>  > down frequently, causing routing protocols (based on hop count) to
>  > construct - deconstruct - construct ........ route continuosly over the link
>  > since A and B think they have a 1-hop route each other.    When we
>  > add more nodes (i.e., topology with more unreliable links), we found that
>  > hop-based
>  > MANET routing protocols spend most of their time trying to establish a route and
>  > little
>  > packets get through.   So, hop count is a poor metric, and we feel a combination
>  > of
>  > metrics such as link lifetimes (from radio and mobility perspectives), etc will be
>  > more
>  > suitable.
>  >
>  > cheers,
>  > kwan-wu
>  >



From manet-admin@ietf.org  Wed Feb 27 13:18:22 2002
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From manet-admin@ietf.org  Wed Feb 27 18:29:43 2002
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This is a belated reply to one of Scott Corson's postings from way back in January ...

Scientific Research Corporation (SRC) has implemented a hybrid-routing protocol that is based on Cornell's ZRP, but has some differences.  It currently runs on Red Hat (2.2 and 2.4 kernels) and Debian Linux (2.4 kernel).  Supported hardware platforms are x86 and StrongARM.  Other OS's and platforms are planned during 2002.  That software has had two beta-testers to date.

SRC may bring that protocol into the IETF after we finish coordinating with Dr. Haas and our various DoD sponsors (AFRL/IF, AFRL/MN and DARPA ATO mainly).  The main goal might be standardizing the *framework* within which the reactive and proactive components communicate --- rather than the components themselves.  As such, SRC is also interested in integrating with other vendors' (and/or colleges') proactive and reactive protocols.  (We're currently also running the INRIA code for OLSR in our lab, but not as the proactive portion of our hybrid protocol.)

In general, hybrid protocols do seem to interest SRC's U.S. DoD customers.  So, IMHO the IETF should continue work on them. Your opinion/mileage may vary, of course :)

Kind Regards,
Pete Sholander

Principal Engineer
Scientific Research Corporation 
2300 Windy Ridge Parkway, Suite 400S
Atlanta, GA  30339

E: psholander@scires.com
V: 770-989-9551
F: 770-859-9315
 

>>> Scott Corson <Corson@flarion.com> 01/04/02 02:30PM >>>
Folks,

First off, welcome back from the holidays for those who took time off.

The issue I'm raising was discussed at the SLC meeting and I want to raise
it on the list.  

We are in the process of milestone revamping in the WG charter, and are
looking to clarify the current scope of work.

As mentioned at the meeting, a number of proposals seem best suited for
highly scaled manet networks. The chairs suggest that the manet WG scope
down the areas of near term work until reasonable progress is achieved. The
rough idea is to concentrate on several items for near term work and
progress.

(1) reactive unicast protocol
(2) proactive unicast protocol
(3) flooding protocol work

----------------
The concerns regarding a number of the proposal(s) are:

(1) primarily useful for scaling manets ..longer term scope issue
(2) perceived lack of broad interest .. independent of WG scope

Would anyone interested in *implementing* TORA, ZRP-related drafts and/or
LANMAR please let me know?  And I do not mean simulation.  I would prefer
that you respond to the list.  I do not want to hear from document authors
or parties working directly with authors.  

I am trying to gauge interest in these drafts as WG work items. 

Thanks,

-Scott


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From daemon@optimus.ietf.org  Wed Feb 27 18:29:43 2002
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This is a belated reply to one of Scott Corson's postings from way back in January ...

Scientific Research Corporation (SRC) has implemented a hybrid-routing protocol that is based on Cornell's ZRP, but has some differences.  It currently runs on Red Hat (2.2 and 2.4 kernels) and Debian Linux (2.4 kernel).  Supported hardware platforms are x86 and StrongARM.  Other OS's and platforms are planned during 2002.  That software has had two beta-testers to date.

SRC may bring that protocol into the IETF after we finish coordinating with Dr. Haas and our various DoD sponsors (AFRL/IF, AFRL/MN and DARPA ATO mainly).  The main goal might be standardizing the *framework* within which the reactive and proactive components communicate --- rather than the components themselves.  As such, SRC is also interested in integrating with other vendors' (and/or colleges') proactive and reactive protocols.  (We're currently also running the INRIA code for OLSR in our lab, but not as the proactive portion of our hybrid protocol.)

In general, hybrid protocols do seem to interest SRC's U.S. DoD customers.  So, IMHO the IETF should continue work on them. Your opinion/mileage may vary, of course :)

Kind Regards,
Pete Sholander

Principal Engineer
Scientific Research Corporation 
2300 Windy Ridge Parkway, Suite 400S
Atlanta, GA  30339

E: psholander@scires.com
V: 770-989-9551
F: 770-859-9315
 

>>> Scott Corson <Corson@flarion.com> 01/04/02 02:30PM >>>
Folks,

First off, welcome back from the holidays for those who took time off.

The issue I'm raising was discussed at the SLC meeting and I want to raise
it on the list.  

We are in the process of milestone revamping in the WG charter, and are
looking to clarify the current scope of work.

As mentioned at the meeting, a number of proposals seem best suited for
highly scaled manet networks. The chairs suggest that the manet WG scope
down the areas of near term work until reasonable progress is achieved. The
rough idea is to concentrate on several items for near term work and
progress.

(1) reactive unicast protocol
(2) proactive unicast protocol
(3) flooding protocol work

----------------
The concerns regarding a number of the proposal(s) are:

(1) primarily useful for scaling manets ..longer term scope issue
(2) perceived lack of broad interest .. independent of WG scope

Would anyone interested in *implementing* TORA, ZRP-related drafts and/or
LANMAR please let me know?  And I do not mean simulation.  I would prefer
that you respond to the list.  I do not want to hear from document authors
or parties working directly with authors.  

I am trying to gauge interest in these drafts as WG work items. 

Thanks,

-Scott


_______________________________________________
manet mailing list
manet@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet



From owner-manet@itd.nrl.navy.mil  Wed Feb 27 18:30:25 2002
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Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 13:36:37 -0500
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Subject: IMPORTANT: Mail list moving to ietf.org
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I have mass subscribed everyone from the manet@itd to manet@ietf.org.
You should be receiving a subscription message for your account.

-Joe



