From exim@www1.ietf.org Sat Nov 1 13:26:32 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA11911 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 13:26:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AG0Rw-0000EJ-Ql for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sat, 01 Nov 2003 13:26:14 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA1IQCTd000875 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 13:26:12 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AG0Rw-0000E0-L7 for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Sat, 01 Nov 2003 13:26:12 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA11897 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 13:25:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AG0Ru-0003sH-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 01 Nov 2003 13:26:10 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AG0Ru-0003sE-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 01 Nov 2003 13:26:10 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AG0Rm-0000Cw-2U; Sat, 01 Nov 2003 13:26:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AG0Qo-0000Ac-BR for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Sat, 01 Nov 2003 13:25:03 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA11889 for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 13:24:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AG0Qm-0003rs-00 for manet@ietf.org; Sat, 01 Nov 2003 13:25:00 -0500 Received: from engr10ras.eos.ncsu.edu ([152.1.21.12]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AG0Ql-0003rg-00 for manet@ietf.org; Sat, 01 Nov 2003 13:24:59 -0500 Received: (from jjun@localhost) by engr10ras.eos.ncsu.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.10.2) id hA1IOq129682; Sat, 1 Nov 2003 13:24:52 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 13:24:52 -0500 (EST) From: Jangeun Jun X-X-Sender: jjun@engr10ras.eos.ncsu.edu To: manet@ietf.org cc: mlsichit@unity.ncsu.edu, ma11@uow.edu.au, ppham@spri.levels.unisa.edu.au, naoumov@inf.ethz.ch, jjun@ncsu.edu In-Reply-To: <20031031170005.20501.56552.Mailman@www1.ietf.org> Message-ID: References: <20031031170005.20501.56552.Mailman@www1.ietf.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [manet] Re:Question: Scalalbe DSDV code in ns-2? Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Hello all, Thank you very much for all of your comments. I really appreciate them. As all of you pointed out, ns-2 will be much slower for a large number of nodes and will take a long simulation time. On top of it, ns-2's DSDV code has a critical limit that it cannot handle more than 100 nodes. Actually, the latter is what I am really concerned about. With this limit in DSDV code, there is no use of an enhanced version of ns-2. ( But Valeri Naoumov's enhanced version of ns-2 will greatly help other users who want fast and efficient simulation. Hopefully, it will become available online soon. ) Therefore, I am now looking at Glomosim but it seems that Glomosim's DSDV was ported from ns-2's DSDV. (ugh~~) Maybe we should try using Glomosim's Bellman-Ford with some modification. Regards, -Jangeun Jun > From: Kenneth Brayer > To: Jangeun Jun > CC: ma11@uow.edu.au, ppham@spri.levels.unisa.edu.au, manet@ietf.org, > Mihail L Sichitiu > Subject: Re: [manet] Question: Scalalbe DSDV code in ns-2? > > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > --------------080100030405040900010007 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Jangeun > > You have another problem. Mario Gerla of UCLA, CS Dept., gave a talk in > a panel discussion at Milcom 2002 pointing out that ns-2 is very slow > above a few hundred nodes. He suggested Qualnet as a simulator for large > networks and ran a 1000 node example of I think LANMAR above AODV(?). It > took minutes. He said ns-2 would run for like days(?). Mario can > probably give you better info. > Ken > > From: Val Naoumov > Reply-To: naoumov@inf.ethz.ch > Organization: ETH Zentrum > To: manet@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [manet] Question: Scalalbe DSDV code in ns-2? ANSWER: Scalable > ns-2. > > Kenneth is right - the main problem not in DSDV code to ns-2 but in ns-2 > itself. > > We modified ns-2 in order to improve performance results (runtime). > Our modification of ns-2 is based on the idea of exploiting the limited > interference of wireless communication. The modified simulator has > simulated populations of up to 3000 nodes so far and works 2-20 times > faster than the original version. The speedup depends on the number of > nodes, the size of the simulation area and on the data traffic. The > higher the number of nodes and the larger the simulation area, the > better the runtime improvement (provided there exists sufficient data > traffic). > > We presented the fast ns-2 in MSWiM 2003 paper: > http://doi.acm.org/10.1145/940991.941001 > > Valeri Naoumov > -- > Institute of Computer Systems > ETH Zurich > Switzerland > http://www.inf.ethz.ch/~naoumov > _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Sun Nov 2 08:10:58 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA14924 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 08:10:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGI06-0003Tb-7D for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 02 Nov 2003 08:10:38 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA2DAcan013359 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 08:10:38 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGI05-0003TO-Kb for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 02 Nov 2003 08:10:37 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA14904 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 08:10:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGI04-00066b-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 02 Nov 2003 08:10:36 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGI04-00066Y-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 02 Nov 2003 08:10:36 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGHzY-0003SN-5V; Sun, 02 Nov 2003 08:10:04 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGHzR-0003Rc-Qw for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 02 Nov 2003 08:09:57 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA14885 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 08:09:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGHzQ-000669-00 for manet@ietf.org; Sun, 02 Nov 2003 08:09:56 -0500 Received: from [210.32.0.5] (helo=zju.edu.cn) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGHzP-00065q-00 for manet@ietf.org; Sun, 02 Nov 2003 08:09:55 -0500 Received: (eyou gateway send program); Sun, 02 Nov 2003 20:13:24 +0800 Received: from unknown (HELO ken) (unknown@10.13.72.28) by 10.10.2.41 with ; Sun, 02 Nov 2003 20:13:24 +0800 Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 21:05:59 +0800 From: Hang Su To: manet@ietf.org Message-Id: <20031102210559.358557af.shzju@eyou.com> Organization: Zhejiang Univ., Hangzhou, China X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.6 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i586-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [manet] I have a few of questions about the energy consumption of IEEE 802.11. Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, Firstly, In the paper Laura Marie Feeney, Martin Nilsson "Investigating the Energy Consumption of a Wireless Network Interface in an Ad Hoc Networking Environment (2001)" IEEE Infocom 2001 The Lucent IEEE802.11 2Mbps WaveLAN PC Card power consumption characters is measured as follow, Idle power : 843mW , Receive power : 967mW , Transmit power : 1327mW. >From the above, we can see the Idle power is close to the receive power. The live time of a node is greatly depend on the idle power. Assume the node initial energy is 1000W*s and there are two node. One always receives data and the other never. Then the one that always receives dies after 1000 / 843e-3 = 1186(s). and the one that never receives dies after 1000 / 967e-3 = 1034 (s). The tow nodes did at the almost same time. So in the IEEE 802.11, the energy consumption of the promiscuous receive mode and the discard mode is almost the same. Is the above analysis right? Secondly, And I have another question why the idle power is so great. If I do some simulation about the energy consumption, can I set the idle power to zero? Thanks in advance. -- Hang Su. _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Sun Nov 2 11:19:32 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA19349 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 11:19:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGKwZ-0002Tf-R5 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 02 Nov 2003 11:19:12 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA2GJBd4009520 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 11:19:11 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGKwZ-0002TT-Kk for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 02 Nov 2003 11:19:11 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA19336 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 11:19:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGKwY-00005I-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 02 Nov 2003 11:19:10 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGKwY-00005E-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 02 Nov 2003 11:19:10 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGKwQ-0002SG-1L; Sun, 02 Nov 2003 11:19:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGKw0-0002Rx-6B for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 02 Nov 2003 11:18:36 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA19320 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 11:18:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGKvz-00004w-00 for manet@ietf.org; Sun, 02 Nov 2003 11:18:35 -0500 Received: from smtp-bedford-x.mitre.org ([192.160.51.76] helo=smtp-bedford.mitre.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGKvy-00004t-00 for manet@ietf.org; Sun, 02 Nov 2003 11:18:34 -0500 Received: from smtp-bedford.mitre.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp-bedford.mitre.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id hA2GIYr05344 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 11:18:34 -0500 Received: from smtpsrv1.mitre.org (smtpsrv1.mitre.org [129.83.20.101]) by smtp-bedford.mitre.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id hA2GIYP05340; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 11:18:34 -0500 Received: from MAILHUB1 (mailhub1.mitre.org [129.83.20.31]) by smtpsrv1.mitre.org (8.12.9/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hA2GIXv4013521; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 11:18:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from wmodempoo1-7.mitre.org (128.29.251.7) by mailhub1.mitre.org with SMTP id 4815125; Sun, 02 Nov 2003 11:18:28 -0500 Message-ID: <3FA52E4C.D4F776AE@mitre.org> Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2003 11:18:21 -0500 From: John Stine Organization: The MITRE Corporation X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en]C-20020130M (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Hang Su CC: manet@ietf.org Subject: Re: [manet] I have a few of questions about the energy consumption of IEEE802.11. References: <20031102210559.358557af.shzju@eyou.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hang Su, The observation below was empirical of a single device and was not the result of employing any of the energy conservation protocols that are part of the 802.11 MAC. This observations says that when a node is in the receive state in anticipation of receiving a packet it will consume more energy than when it is in the receive state and can drop a packet because it knows the packet is not destined for itself. The fact the node does not process the packet conserves energy. However, 802.11 devices have even greater energy conserving states where they consume about 5-10% the energy they consume while in the full-up receive state. The challenge in using these latter protocols is that they result in nodes being unaware of what is going on in the network. If feasible, entering a doze state could result in significant savings. In my judgement, the interesting part of this observation has more to do with transition time. A challenge in using low energy states is that it can take a long time to enter and then to leave those states. This transition from full-up receive and receive without packet processing seemed nearly instantaneous as opposed to tens to hundreds of milliseconds. Perhaps in future 802.11 modems, additional low energy states, perhaps at 30-60% of the receive state power, with faster transition times (tens of microseconds) will be made available. John Hang Su wrote: > Hi all, > > Firstly, > In the paper > > Laura Marie Feeney, Martin Nilsson > "Investigating the Energy Consumption of a Wireless Network Interface in an > Ad Hoc Networking Environment (2001)" > IEEE Infocom 2001 > > The Lucent IEEE802.11 2Mbps WaveLAN PC Card power consumption characters is measured as > follow, Idle power : 843mW , Receive power : 967mW , Transmit power : 1327mW. > > From the above, we can see the Idle power is close to the receive power. > The live time of a node is greatly depend on the idle power. > Assume the node initial energy is 1000W*s and there are two node. > One always receives data and the other never. > Then the one that always receives dies after 1000 / 843e-3 = 1186(s). > and the one that never receives dies after 1000 / 967e-3 = 1034 (s). > The tow nodes did at the almost same time. > > So in the IEEE 802.11, the energy consumption of the promiscuous receive mode and > the discard mode is almost the same. > > Is the above analysis right? > Secondly, > And I have another question why the idle power is so great. > If I do some simulation about the energy consumption, can I set the idle power to zero? > > Thanks in advance. > > -- > > Hang Su. > > _______________________________________________ > manet mailing list > manet@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Sun Nov 2 19:47:31 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA01665 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 19:47:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGSsA-00049H-B5 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 02 Nov 2003 19:47:11 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA30lAZ6015941 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 19:47:10 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGSsA-000492-6h for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 02 Nov 2003 19:47:10 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA01659 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 19:46:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGSs8-000579-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 02 Nov 2003 19:47:08 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGSs7-000576-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 02 Nov 2003 19:47:07 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGSs2-00047y-Ja; Sun, 02 Nov 2003 19:47:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGSrD-000466-6l for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 02 Nov 2003 19:46:11 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA01636 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 19:46:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGSrB-00056t-00 for manet@ietf.org; Sun, 02 Nov 2003 19:46:09 -0500 Received: from rodin.i2r.a-star.edu.sg ([192.122.139.27] helo=i2r.a-star.edu.sg) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGSrA-00056D-00 for manet@ietf.org; Sun, 02 Nov 2003 19:46:08 -0500 Received: from newmailhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by i2r.a-star.edu.sg (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hA30hulN020638 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 08:43:56 +0800 (SGT) Received: from lit.org.sg (samson.i2r.org.sg [192.122.134.27]) by mailhost.lit.org.sg (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 Patch 1 (built Aug 19 2002)) with ESMTP id <0HNR005FU3GKO2@mailhost.lit.org.sg> for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 08:45:56 +0800 (SGT) Received: from localhost (stuss@localhost) by lit.org.sg (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with SMTP id hA30jtT15335; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 08:45:55 +0800 (SGT) Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 08:45:55 +0800 (SGT) From: Sourabh Sharma X-Sender: stuss@samson To: manet@ietf.org Cc: eng02377@nus.edu.sg Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Authentication-warning: samson.i2r.a-star.edu.sg: stuss owned process doing -bs Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Subject: [manet] Need for DAD in Ad Hoc Networks Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Dear All, I would like some authoritative answers on this. Since IPv6 Autoconf scheme uses 48 bit MACID for autconfiguration of IPaddress - DAD is proposed due to the following reasons: - MAC Ids are designed to be unique but are not gauranteed. - Some users/ devices may use random MAC IDs -->might lead to duplicates My argument for Not using DAD in Ad hoc networks is as follows: - Finding a node within an ad hoc network with the same MACID has a very low probability - Finding a node within an ad hoc network with the same MACID + SubNET ID has an even lower probability. In case of Small ad hoc networks - this probability can be safely assumed to be zero. Thus, in case of using DSR ( where it is assumed that nw_diameter is small --> especially in the case of IPv6 where each IP address in the source route is 32 bytes, the network cannot support more than 5-7 hops.) we can say that not using DAD will not cause any problems. Please let me know of your opinion on this. Regards, Sourabh Sharma I2R, Singapore _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 3 00:37:33 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA07732 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 00:37:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGXOs-0005TA-LR for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 00:37:15 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA35bDjJ020818 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 00:37:13 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGXOq-0005PN-SX for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 00:37:12 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA07713 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 00:37:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGXOo-0000H6-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 00:37:10 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGXOn-0000H3-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 00:37:09 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGXOf-0005L2-RA; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 00:37:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGXO1-0005J3-O7 for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 00:36:21 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA07706 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 00:36:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGXNy-0000Gn-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 00:36:18 -0500 Received: from [210.32.0.5] (helo=zju.edu.cn) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGXNx-0000Gh-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 00:36:17 -0500 Received: (eyou gateway send program); Mon, 03 Nov 2003 12:39:49 +0800 Received: from unknown (HELO ken) (unknown@210.32.131.214) by 10.10.2.41 with ; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 12:39:49 +0800 Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 13:32:23 +0800 From: Hang Su To: John Stine Cc: manet@ietf.org Subject: Re: [manet] I have a few of questions about the energy consumption of IEEE802.11. Message-Id: <20031103133223.7eb029af.shzju@eyou.com> In-Reply-To: <267790511.20561@eyou.com> References: <20031102210559.358557af.shzju@eyou.com> <267790511.20561@eyou.com> Organization: Zhejiang Univ., Hangzhou, China X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.6 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i586-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi John Stine, In the paper, Juan Carlos Cano and Pietro Manzoni, "Evaluating the energyconsumption reduction in a MANET by dynamically switching-off network interfaces," Proceedings of the 6th IEEE Symposium on Computers and Communications, Hammamet, Tunisia, July 2001. the idle power mode current which is used to do the simulation is set to 15mA. That is to say the power consumption is 15 * 5 = 75(mW) in the idle mode. While the power consumption is 178 * 5 = 890(mW) in the L.M. Feeney's paper. Why the distinction between the two papers is so sharp. Regards, --- Hang Su On Sun, 02 Nov 2003 11:18:21 -0500 John Stine wrote: > Hang Su, > > The observation below was empirical of a single device and was not the result of employing > any of the energy conservation protocols that are part of the 802.11 MAC. This > observations says that when a node is in the receive state in anticipation of receiving a > packet it will consume more energy than when it is in the receive state and can drop a > packet because it knows the packet is not destined for itself. The fact the node does not > process the packet conserves energy. However, 802.11 devices have even greater energy > conserving states where they consume about 5-10% the energy they consume while in the > full-up receive state. The challenge in using these latter protocols is that they result > in nodes being unaware of what is going on in the network. If feasible, entering a doze > state could result in significant savings. > > In my judgement, the interesting part of this observation has more to do with transition > time. A challenge in using low energy states is that it can take a long time to enter and > then to leave those states. This transition from full-up receive and receive without > packet processing seemed nearly instantaneous as opposed to tens to hundreds of > milliseconds. Perhaps in future 802.11 modems, additional low energy states, perhaps at > 30-60% of the receive state power, with faster transition times (tens of microseconds) will > be made available. > > John > > Hang Su wrote: > > > Hi all, > > > > Firstly, > > In the paper > > > > Laura Marie Feeney, Martin Nilsson > > "Investigating the Energy Consumption of a Wireless Network Interface in an > > Ad Hoc Networking Environment (2001)" > > IEEE Infocom 2001 > > > > The Lucent IEEE802.11 2Mbps WaveLAN PC Card power consumption characters is measured as > > follow, Idle power : 843mW , Receive power : 967mW , Transmit power : 1327mW. > > > > From the above, we can see the Idle power is close to the receive power. > > The live time of a node is greatly depend on the idle power. > > Assume the node initial energy is 1000W*s and there are two node. > > One always receives data and the other never. > > Then the one that always receives dies after 1000 / 843e-3 = 1186(s). > > and the one that never receives dies after 1000 / 967e-3 = 1034 (s). > > The tow nodes did at the almost same time. > > > > So in the IEEE 802.11, the energy consumption of the promiscuous receive mode and > > the discard mode is almost the same. > > > > Is the above analysis right? > > > Secondly, > > And I have another question why the idle power is so great. > > If I do some simulation about the energy consumption, can I set the idle power to zero? > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > -- > > > > Hang Su. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > manet mailing list > > manet@ietf.org > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet > > _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 3 01:23:32 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA08503 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 01:23:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGY7L-0007TP-RJ for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 01:23:12 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA36NBxj028721 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 01:23:11 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGY7L-0007TA-Ny for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 01:23:11 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA08478 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 01:23:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGY7I-0000fF-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 01:23:08 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGY7I-0000fC-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 01:23:08 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGY7B-0007P8-IF; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 01:23:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGY6N-0007OB-Eg for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 01:22:11 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA08468 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 01:22:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGY6K-0000ek-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 01:22:08 -0500 Received: from gehenna.ece.cornell.edu ([128.84.95.235]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGY6K-0000eh-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 01:22:08 -0500 Received: from verdi (verdi.ece.cornell.edu [128.84.210.27]) by gehenna.ece.cornell.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E0DC1E8006; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 01:22:09 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 01:20:32 -0500 (EST) From: "haas@ece.cornell.edu" To: Hang Su Cc: manet@ietf.org Subject: Re: [manet] I have a few of questions about the energy consumption of IEEE 802.11. In-Reply-To: <20031102210559.358557af.shzju@eyou.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Hi Hang, These numbers appear to be (relatively) consistent with other published data. Of course, there is also the "sleep" mode, in which the power consumption is significantly reduced. For example, see the following reference on how to use this feature to increase the node lifetime: M.R. Pearlman, J. Deng, B. Liang, Z.J. Haas, ``Elective Participation in Ad Hoc Networks Based on Energy Consumption,'' IEEE GLOBECOM 2002, Taipei, Taiwan, November 17-21, 2002 (you can download the paper from http://wnl.ece.cornell.edu/wnlprojects.html). Best, ZYgmunt. ==-=-===== ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~- Prof. Zygmunt J. Haas http://people.ece.cornell.edu/haas Wireless Networks Laboratory http://wnl.ece.cornell.edu School of Electrical Engineering Cornell University tel: +1-607-255-3454 323 Frank Rhodes Hall fax: +1-607-255-9072 Ithaca, NY 14853 e-mail: haas@ece.cornell.edu U.S.A WNL web page: http://wnl.ece.cornell.edu ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~- On Sun, 2 Nov 2003, Hang Su wrote: > Hi all, > > Firstly, > In the paper > > Laura Marie Feeney, Martin Nilsson > "Investigating the Energy Consumption of a Wireless Network Interface in an > Ad Hoc Networking Environment (2001)" > IEEE Infocom 2001 > > The Lucent IEEE802.11 2Mbps WaveLAN PC Card power consumption characters is measured as > follow, Idle power : 843mW , Receive power : 967mW , Transmit power : 1327mW. > > From the above, we can see the Idle power is close to the receive power. > The live time of a node is greatly depend on the idle power. > Assume the node initial energy is 1000W*s and there are two node. > One always receives data and the other never. > Then the one that always receives dies after 1000 / 843e-3 = 1186(s). > and the one that never receives dies after 1000 / 967e-3 = 1034 (s). > The tow nodes did at the almost same time. > > So in the IEEE 802.11, the energy consumption of the promiscuous receive mode and > the discard mode is almost the same. > > Is the above analysis right? > > Secondly, > And I have another question why the idle power is so great. > If I do some simulation about the energy consumption, can I set the idle power to zero? > > Thanks in advance. > > > > -- > > Hang Su. > > _______________________________________________ > manet mailing list > manet@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet > > _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 3 04:29:52 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA24990 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 04:29:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGb1g-0000qD-Eu for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 04:29:32 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA39TWr1003233 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 04:29:32 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGb1f-0000q2-Qe for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 04:29:31 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA24917 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 04:29:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGb1c-0002ZQ-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 04:29:28 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGb1b-0002ZN-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 04:29:27 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGb1E-0000gS-Fl; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 04:29:04 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGb0h-0000Zx-45 for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 04:28:31 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA24830 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 04:28:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGb0e-0002X7-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 04:28:28 -0500 Received: from smtp5.clb.oleane.net ([213.56.31.25]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGb0d-0002Wd-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 04:28:27 -0500 Received: from oleane ([194.250.212.114]) by smtp5.clb.oleane.net with SMTP id hA39RrpR016503 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 10:27:54 +0100 Message-ID: <016401c3a1ed$3fe81000$0601a8c0@www.oleane.com> From: "Peter Lewis" To: Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 10:31:24 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0161_01C3A1F5.A1695480" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Subject: [manet] UWB Summit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , C'est un message de format MIME en plusieurs parties. ------=_NextPart_000_0161_01C3A1F5.A1695480 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Which proposal will be selected as the IEEE 802.15.3a standard? A = consortium has just proposed to offer a RANDZ access to its patents. The = industry is now waiting for the reply from the supporters of the other = proposal.=20 This battle between technology heavyweights underlines the growing = importance of a technology expected to generate $1.39 billion in revenue = by 2007. All questions and answers will be delivered during the UWB Summit to be = held in Paris next 2-5 December. All details at: http://www.upperside.fr/newmobtech/uwb03cfp.htm ------=_NextPart_000_0161_01C3A1F5.A1695480 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Which proposal will be selected as = the=20 IEEE 802.15.3a standard? A consortium has just proposed = to=20 offer a RANDZ access to its patents. The industry is now waiting for the = reply=20 from the supporters of the other proposal.
This battle between technology = heavyweights=20 underlines the growing importance of a technology expected to generate = $1.39=20 billion in revenue by 2007.
All questions and answers will be = delivered=20 during the UWB Summit to be held in Paris next 2-5=20 December.
All details at:
http://www.upper= side.fr/newmobtech/uwb03cfp.htm
------=_NextPart_000_0161_01C3A1F5.A1695480-- _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 3 06:16:38 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA27568 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 06:16:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGch0-0006eo-67 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 06:16:20 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA3BGISl025587 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 06:16:18 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGch0-0006ec-1y for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 06:16:18 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA27557 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 06:16:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGcgw-0003qS-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 06:16:14 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGcgv-0003qP-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 06:16:13 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGcgk-0006da-J2; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 06:16:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGcgc-0006dB-Oz for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 06:15:55 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA27554 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 06:15:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGcgY-0003qL-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 06:15:50 -0500 Received: from marfik.cc.upv.es ([158.42.250.61] helo=marfik.upv.es) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGcgX-0003q1-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 06:15:50 -0500 Received: from pop.upv.es (maia.cc.upv.es [158.42.4.11]) by marfik.upv.es (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3BFAjb009073; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 12:15:10 +0100 Received: from mx2.upv.es (mx2.cc.upv.es [158.42.249.55]) by pop.upv.es (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id hA3BF9I05587; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 12:15:09 +0100 (MET) Received: from nao.disca.upv.es (nao.disca.upv.es [158.42.53.70]) by mx2.upv.es (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hA3BF72o002926; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 12:15:08 +0100 Received: from darti (darti.disca.upv.es [158.42.53.50]) by nao.disca.upv.es (Postfix on SuSE eMail Server 2.0) with ESMTP id A12BF1FE8B; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 12:14:58 +0100 (CET) From: "J.Carlos Cano" To: "'Hang Su'" , "'John Stine'" Cc: Subject: RE: [manet] I have a few of questions about the energy consumption of IEEE802.11. Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 12:15:07 +0100 Message-ID: <002101c3a1fb$bd0e9aa0$32352a9e@darti> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: <20031103133223.7eb029af.shzju@eyou.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, In the first page of the paper "Evaluating the energy consumption reduction ..." when we present the energy consumption of the ORINOCO Card. We said idle when we wanted to say sleep. Bye. -----Mensaje original----- De: manet-admin@ietf.org [mailto:manet-admin@ietf.org] En nombre de Hang Su Enviado el: lunes, 03 de noviembre de 2003 6:32 Para: John Stine CC: manet@ietf.org Asunto: Re: [manet] I have a few of questions about the energy consumption of IEEE802.11. Hi John Stine, In the paper, Juan Carlos Cano and Pietro Manzoni, "Evaluating the energyconsumption reduction in a MANET by dynamically switching-off network interfaces," Proceedings of the 6th IEEE Symposium on Computers and Communications, Hammamet, Tunisia, July 2001. the idle power mode current which is used to do the simulation is set to 15mA. That is to say the power consumption is 15 * 5 = 75(mW) in the idle mode. While the power consumption is 178 * 5 = 890(mW) in the L.M. Feeney's paper. Why the distinction between the two papers is so sharp. Regards, --- Hang Su On Sun, 02 Nov 2003 11:18:21 -0500 John Stine wrote: > Hang Su, > > The observation below was empirical of a single device and was not the result of employing > any of the energy conservation protocols that are part of the 802.11 MAC. This > observations says that when a node is in the receive state in anticipation of receiving a > packet it will consume more energy than when it is in the receive state and can drop a > packet because it knows the packet is not destined for itself. The fact the node does not > process the packet conserves energy. However, 802.11 devices have even greater energy > conserving states where they consume about 5-10% the energy they consume while in the > full-up receive state. The challenge in using these latter protocols is that they result > in nodes being unaware of what is going on in the network. If feasible, entering a doze > state could result in significant savings. > > In my judgement, the interesting part of this observation has more to do with transition > time. A challenge in using low energy states is that it can take a long time to enter and > then to leave those states. This transition from full-up receive and receive without > packet processing seemed nearly instantaneous as opposed to tens to hundreds of > milliseconds. Perhaps in future 802.11 modems, additional low energy states, perhaps at > 30-60% of the receive state power, with faster transition times (tens of microseconds) will > be made available. > > John > > Hang Su wrote: > > > Hi all, > > > > Firstly, > > In the paper > > > > Laura Marie Feeney, Martin Nilsson > > "Investigating the Energy Consumption of a Wireless Network Interface in an > > Ad Hoc Networking Environment (2001)" > > IEEE Infocom 2001 > > > > The Lucent IEEE802.11 2Mbps WaveLAN PC Card power consumption characters is measured as > > follow, Idle power : 843mW , Receive power : 967mW , Transmit power : 1327mW. > > > > From the above, we can see the Idle power is close to the receive power. > > The live time of a node is greatly depend on the idle power. > > Assume the node initial energy is 1000W*s and there are two node. > > One always receives data and the other never. > > Then the one that always receives dies after 1000 / 843e-3 = 1186(s). > > and the one that never receives dies after 1000 / 967e-3 = 1034 (s). > > The tow nodes did at the almost same time. > > > > So in the IEEE 802.11, the energy consumption of the promiscuous receive mode and > > the discard mode is almost the same. > > > > Is the above analysis right? > > > Secondly, > > And I have another question why the idle power is so great. > > If I do some simulation about the energy consumption, can I set the idle power to zero? > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > -- > > > > Hang Su. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > manet mailing list > > manet@ietf.org > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet > > _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 3 07:08:29 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA28710 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 07:08:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGdVD-0000qO-Mk for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 07:08:11 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA3C8BPA003238 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 07:08:11 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGdVD-0000q8-JL for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 07:08:11 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA28679 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 07:07:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGdV7-0004OJ-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 07:08:05 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGdV7-0004OG-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 07:08:05 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGdV4-0000p7-2q; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 07:08:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGdUC-0000XW-BA for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 07:07:08 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA28657 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 07:06:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGdU8-0004Nm-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 07:07:04 -0500 Received: from smtp-bedford-x.mitre.org ([192.160.51.76] helo=smtp-bedford.mitre.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGdU7-0004Nj-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 07:07:03 -0500 Received: from smtp-bedford.mitre.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp-bedford.mitre.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id hA3C75226478 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 07:07:05 -0500 Received: from MAILHUB2 (mailhub2.mitre.org [129.83.221.18]) by smtp-bedford.mitre.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id hA3C75W26459; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 07:07:05 -0500 Received: from wmodempoo1-21.mitre.org (128.29.251.21) by mailhub2.mitre.org with SMTP id 226112; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 07:07:00 -0500 Message-ID: <3FA644D9.8606C628@mitre.org> Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 07:06:49 -0500 From: John Stine Organization: The MITRE Corporation X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en]C-20020130M (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Hang Su CC: manet@ietf.org Subject: Re: [manet] I have a few of questions about the energy consumptionof IEEE802.11. References: <20031102210559.358557af.shzju@eyou.com> <267790511.20561@eyou.com> <20031103133223.7eb029af.shzju@eyou.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Those numbers are consistent with what I said. The idle power mentioned in this paper is the energy conservation state provided by the card they used. Feeney's observation of a card using less energy when it does not process a packet was not using this low energy state. The energy conservation was a result of not processing the packet. The node was still sensing the channel and participating in the network. John Hang Su wrote: > Hi John Stine, > > In the paper, > Juan Carlos Cano and Pietro Manzoni, > "Evaluating the energyconsumption reduction in a MANET by dynamically switching-off network interfaces," > Proceedings of the 6th IEEE Symposium on Computers and Communications, Hammamet, Tunisia, July 2001. > > the idle power mode current which is used to do the simulation is set to 15mA. > That is to say the power consumption is 15 * 5 = 75(mW) in the idle mode. > While the power consumption is 178 * 5 = 890(mW) in the L.M. Feeney's paper. > Why the distinction between the two papers is so sharp. > > Regards, > > --- > Hang Su > > On Sun, 02 Nov 2003 11:18:21 -0500 > John Stine wrote: > > > Hang Su, > > > > The observation below was empirical of a single device and was not the result of employing > > any of the energy conservation protocols that are part of the 802.11 MAC. This > > observations says that when a node is in the receive state in anticipation of receiving a > > packet it will consume more energy than when it is in the receive state and can drop a > > packet because it knows the packet is not destined for itself. The fact the node does not > > process the packet conserves energy. However, 802.11 devices have even greater energy > > conserving states where they consume about 5-10% the energy they consume while in the > > full-up receive state. The challenge in using these latter protocols is that they result > > in nodes being unaware of what is going on in the network. If feasible, entering a doze > > state could result in significant savings. > > > > In my judgement, the interesting part of this observation has more to do with transition > > time. A challenge in using low energy states is that it can take a long time to enter and > > then to leave those states. This transition from full-up receive and receive without > > packet processing seemed nearly instantaneous as opposed to tens to hundreds of > > milliseconds. Perhaps in future 802.11 modems, additional low energy states, perhaps at > > 30-60% of the receive state power, with faster transition times (tens of microseconds) will > > be made available. > > > > John > > > > Hang Su wrote: > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > Firstly, > > > In the paper > > > > > > Laura Marie Feeney, Martin Nilsson > > > "Investigating the Energy Consumption of a Wireless Network Interface in an > > > Ad Hoc Networking Environment (2001)" > > > IEEE Infocom 2001 > > > > > > The Lucent IEEE802.11 2Mbps WaveLAN PC Card power consumption characters is measured as > > > follow, Idle power : 843mW , Receive power : 967mW , Transmit power : 1327mW. > > > > > > From the above, we can see the Idle power is close to the receive power. > > > The live time of a node is greatly depend on the idle power. > > > Assume the node initial energy is 1000W*s and there are two node. > > > One always receives data and the other never. > > > Then the one that always receives dies after 1000 / 843e-3 = 1186(s). > > > and the one that never receives dies after 1000 / 967e-3 = 1034 (s). > > > The tow nodes did at the almost same time. > > > > > > So in the IEEE 802.11, the energy consumption of the promiscuous receive mode and > > > the discard mode is almost the same. > > > > > > Is the above analysis right? > > > > > Secondly, > > > And I have another question why the idle power is so great. > > > If I do some simulation about the energy consumption, can I set the idle power to zero? > > > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Hang Su. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > manet mailing list > > > manet@ietf.org > > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet > > > > _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 3 07:40:34 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA29707 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 07:40:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGe0C-0002Nm-Eg for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 07:40:13 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA3CeCvV009152 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 07:40:12 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGe0C-0002NX-Ag for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 07:40:12 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA29695 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 07:40:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGe0B-0004sH-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 07:40:11 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGe0B-0004sE-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 07:40:11 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGe03-0002MD-AI; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 07:40:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGdzT-0002LK-Ir for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 07:39:27 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA29675 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 07:39:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGdzS-0004rj-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 07:39:26 -0500 Received: from [210.32.0.5] (helo=zju.edu.cn) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGdzQ-0004r8-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 07:39:25 -0500 Received: (eyou gateway send program); Mon, 03 Nov 2003 19:42:52 +0800 Received: from unknown (HELO ken) (unknown@210.32.131.214) by 10.10.2.41 with ; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 19:42:52 +0800 Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 20:35:20 +0800 From: Hang Su To: "J.Carlos Cano" , "John Stine" , "haas@ece.cornell.edu" Cc: manet@ietf.org Subject: Re: [manet] I have a few of questions about the energy consumption of IEEE802.11. Message-Id: <20031103203520.2b90d36b.shzju@eyou.com> In-Reply-To: <267858714.13921@eyou.com> References: <20031103133223.7eb029af.shzju@eyou.com> <267858714.13921@eyou.com> Organization: Zhejiang Univ., Hangzhou, China X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.6 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i586-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi , Here you said the "idle" equaled to "sleep". So when a node did not send a packet or receive a packet, which state did it work at, idle(890mW), or sleep(75mW) ? Another question. In your paper "Evaluating the energy consumption reduction ...", you did the simulation without considering the idle power. you said ``In this work we asssume that the idle status is energy free, - as well the evaluated MANET protocols will have similar energy cosumption.'' (in the paper p.188). That is to say the node in your simulation only had two states ,tran. or recv.. The question is when the node work in idle mode, and when in sleep mode. Regards, Hang Su ----- On Mon, 3 Nov 2003 12:15:07 +0100 "J.Carlos Cano" wrote: > Hi, > > In the first page of the paper "Evaluating the energy consumption > reduction ..." when we present the energy consumption of the ORINOCO > Card. We said idle when we wanted to say sleep. > > Bye. > > -----Mensaje original----- > De: manet-admin@ietf.org [mailto:manet-admin@ietf.org] En nombre de Hang > Su > Enviado el: lunes, 03 de noviembre de 2003 6:32 > Para: John Stine > CC: manet@ietf.org > Asunto: Re: [manet] I have a few of questions about the energy > consumption of IEEE802.11. > > Hi John Stine, > > In the paper, > Juan Carlos Cano and Pietro Manzoni, > "Evaluating the energyconsumption reduction in a MANET by dynamically > switching-off network interfaces," > Proceedings of the 6th IEEE Symposium on Computers and Communications, > Hammamet, Tunisia, July 2001. > > the idle power mode current which is used to do the simulation is set to > 15mA. > That is to say the power consumption is 15 * 5 = 75(mW) in the idle > mode. > While the power consumption is 178 * 5 = 890(mW) in the L.M. Feeney's > paper. > Why the distinction between the two papers is so sharp. > > Regards, > > --- > Hang Su > > > > > On Sun, 02 Nov 2003 11:18:21 -0500 > John Stine wrote: > > > Hang Su, > > > > The observation below was empirical of a single device and was not the > result of employing > > any of the energy conservation protocols that are part of the 802.11 > MAC. This > > observations says that when a node is in the receive state in > anticipation of receiving a > > packet it will consume more energy than when it is in the receive > state and can drop a > > packet because it knows the packet is not destined for itself. The > fact the node does not > > process the packet conserves energy. However, 802.11 devices have > even greater energy > > conserving states where they consume about 5-10% the energy they > consume while in the > > full-up receive state. The challenge in using these latter protocols > is that they result > > in nodes being unaware of what is going on in the network. If > feasible, entering a doze > > state could result in significant savings. > > > > In my judgement, the interesting part of this observation has more to > do with transition > > time. A challenge in using low energy states is that it can take a > long time to enter and > > then to leave those states. This transition from full-up receive and > receive without > > packet processing seemed nearly instantaneous as opposed to tens to > hundreds of > > milliseconds. Perhaps in future 802.11 modems, additional low energy > states, perhaps at > > 30-60% of the receive state power, with faster transition times (tens > of microseconds) will > > be made available. > > > > John > > > > Hang Su wrote: > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > Firstly, > > > In the paper > > > > > > Laura Marie Feeney, Martin Nilsson > > > "Investigating the Energy Consumption of a Wireless Network > Interface in an > > > Ad Hoc Networking Environment (2001)" > > > IEEE Infocom 2001 > > > > > > The Lucent IEEE802.11 2Mbps WaveLAN PC Card power consumption > characters is measured as > > > follow, Idle power : 843mW , Receive power : 967mW , Transmit power > : 1327mW. > > > > > > From the above, we can see the Idle power is close to the receive > power. > > > The live time of a node is greatly depend on the idle power. > > > Assume the node initial energy is 1000W*s and there are two node. > > > One always receives data and the other never. > > > Then the one that always receives dies after 1000 / 843e-3 = > 1186(s). > > > and the one that never receives dies after 1000 / 967e-3 = 1034 (s). > > > The tow nodes did at the almost same time. > > > > > > So in the IEEE 802.11, the energy consumption of the promiscuous > receive mode and > > > the discard mode is almost the same. > > > > > > Is the above analysis right? > > > > > Secondly, > > > And I have another question why the idle power is so great. > > > If I do some simulation about the energy consumption, can I set the > idle power to zero? > > > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Hang Su. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > manet mailing list > > > manet@ietf.org > > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > manet mailing list > manet@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet > _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 3 10:40:42 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA07308 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 10:40:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGgoY-0004bU-Sw for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 10:40:23 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA3FeMKJ017693 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 10:40:22 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGgoY-0004bF-4U for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 10:40:22 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA07295 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 10:40:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGgoS-0007Ng-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 10:40:16 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGgoS-0007Nd-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 10:40:16 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGgoE-0004Zq-WE; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 10:40:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGgnJ-0004XY-C2 for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 10:39:05 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA07267 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 10:38:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGgnH-0007NA-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 10:39:03 -0500 Received: from smtp1.bae.co.uk ([20.138.254.61]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGgnG-0007Mr-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 10:39:02 -0500 Received: from ngbaux (ngbaux.msd.bae.co.uk [141.245.68.234]) by smtp1.bae.co.uk (Switch-2.2.8/Switch-2.2.8) with ESMTP id hA3FcOF19401 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 15:38:25 GMT Received: from bsrsmtp02.ng.bae.co.uk ([141.245.68.242]) by ngbaux.net.bae.co.uk (PMDF V5.2-33 #44998) with SMTP id <0HNS00J8T8QCXW@ngbaux.net.bae.co.uk> for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 15:37:24 +0000 (GMT) Received: from glkms0002.GREENLNK.NET ([10.15.184.2]) by 141.245.68.242 with InterScan Messaging Security Suite for SMTP; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 15:38:05 +0000 Received: from glkms0008.GREENLNK.NET ([10.15.184.8]) by glkms0002.GREENLNK.NET with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5329); Mon, 03 Nov 2003 15:38:07 +0000 Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 15:38:07 +0000 From: "Dearlove, Chris (UK)" To: manet@ietf.org Cc: T.Clausen@computer.org, Philippe.Jacquet@inria.fr Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6375.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Thread-Topic: OLSR RFC, IETF Minneapolis Thread-Index: AcOeDxiDSvtLjQklEdiBCgCw0GQZXwEDjkAw content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Nov 2003 15:38:07.0441 (UTC) FILETIME=[7A80A410:01C3A220] Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [manet] OLSR: RFC 3626 observations. Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have a number of observations regarding OLSR, as currently defined by RFC 3626. Whether any of them are ever taken on board depends on future plans for OLSR and the manet group. (I note that post-RFC work has already started on AODV.) First nit-packing comments on the RFC. - There are some erroneous references to the advertised link set that should be the advertised neighbor set in sections 9.2 (page 44), 9.3 (page 45), 15 (page 59), 15.1 (page 60) and 15.2 (page 60) - multiple times in some cases. - In section 9.3 (page 45) it should be a change to the advertised neighbor set, rather than the MPR selector set that provokes an additional TC message. (Of course by default the two are the same, but in general it is the advertised neighbor set which matters.) Second some specific comments on the protocol. (Note that these have been informed by having implemented the latest version of the protocol, as now defined by the RFC.) Note that any suggested changes are backward compatible (and could interwork with the current version of the protocol). - When considering neighbourhood changes, there is the case of two nodes each using the same two interfaces. If the nodes are symmetrically connected using one interface, and then the second interface link becomes symmetric, or if symmetrically connected using both interfaces and then the connection through one interface becomes asymmetric or lost, this does not count as a neighbourhood change as defined in Section 8.5 (page 42); in fact these cases are explicitly excluded there. This is appropriate for MPR Set recalculation, but not for Routing Table recalculation, although Section 10 (page 47) does not make this distinction. To illustrate the problem consider an example starting with a symmetric link using the first interface, but not using the second interface, one node (the first node) will route to either interface of the other node (the second node) using the first interface. Now add the parallel link using the second interface. If this is not regarded as a neighbour appearance then there will be no Routing Table change, and the Routing Table will use the slightly odd, but acceptable, route to the second interface address on the second node via the first interface. Now break the link using the first interface. If this is not a neighbourhood loss then again there will be no Routing Table change - but there is an invalid entry in the Routing Table. This suggests that a modification to sections 8.5 and section 10 would be appropriate. - Section 10 point 2 (page 48) refers to main address without specifying where to get it from. The RFC defines main address in section 5.5 (page 27) and hence that definition should be used. However in the indicated point this is a 1-hop neighbour, hence the main address is also available in the associated Neighbour Tuple. Since the 1-hop link must be established before a MID message is received and the Interface Association Set is updated, not using the Neighbour Tuple will result in an unnecessary delay. Since the procedure in Section 10 is an example, it is not necessary to change the RFC to use the Neighbour Set at this point. However there are other circumstances where this additional information may be used. The protocol could be modified to add that an entry may be added to the Interface Association Set whenever a HELLO message's originator address and source address differ (the former is the main address, the latter is the interface address). - On receipt of a MID message and update of the Interface Association Set to add a new entry, one or more interface addresses which were previously assumed to be main addresses will no longer be main addresses. There may then be two hop tuples each containing an interface, rather than a main, address of a two hop neighbours. This has the drawbacks both of having entries which are incorrect, and not having entries which are wanted, and losing the opportunity to "merge" entries. The absence of any wanted entries lasts until the next appropriate HELLO message, the unwanted entries last until they expire. The protocol could be modified such that if a MID message is received (may qualify to only consider the case where it adds a new entry to the Interface Association Set) and if there are any two hop tuples with neighbour address contained in the MID message then replace all of these two hop tuples with a single two hop tuple using the MID message originator address. The new tuple's expiry time should be the latest of all the replace tuples expiry times. Third some points where protocol behaviour is not ideal, but changes might not be 100% compatible. - In point 2 of section 13 (page 56) and point 2 of section 14.3 (page 58) the parameter NEIGHB_HOLD_TIME is used to define new link time(s). However all other entries in the Link Set use the NEIGHB_HOLD_TIME of the other end of the link, as reported in the Vtime field of a HELLO message. It would be more appropriate to save this Vtime value (in the same way that the Htime field is already saved) and use that rather than NEIGHB_HOLD_TIME. Note that this avoids (among other issues) a tuple's expiry time ever becoming earlier as could otherwise occur. - The protocol contains features (in section 9.5, page 46) to handle out of order TC messages. However these features are imperfect, they rely on the physically first/logically second TC message adding an entry to the Topology Set so that the physically second/logically first TC message may be recognised as such and discarded. However if the physically first/logically second TC message is empty then no such entry will be added and the physically second/logically first TC message will not be discarded. It will add entries to the Topology Set, which defeats the object of the empty TC message, at least partially. I can see one easy, but ugly, fix. This is that an empty TC message could add a "dummy" entry to the Topology Set. This could be one where both T_dest_addr and T_last_addr are set to the originator address, and T_seq is set to the ANSN. (T_time would be set as usual.) The Routing Table update process would have to be modified to disregard entries with T_last_addr equal to T_dest_addr. However a cleaner approach would be better. This is not just a hypothetical case, we have observed it in simulation, albeit in circumstances which would be better removed by another approach. (However removal of the observed circumstances still leaves the case able to happen in other ways.) In the observed case an intermediate node first received a TC message. After processing it, it decided to forward it. It therefore scheduled a retransmission at a time delayed by a random jitter duration. Shortly thereafter (before the retransmission) it received another TC message, from the same originating node. It did the same, but scheduling it before the other message (owing to using a smaller random number). There are at least two possible fixes to prevent this occurring, but neither is suggested by the RFC - Discard the earlier TC message when queuing the later TC message. (This would be limited to messages from the same originating node with earlier ANSN.) This contradicts section 9.4 (page 45) which mandates use of the standard forwarding algorithm for TC messages. - Ensure that queued messages order is maintained. This could apply to all messages, all messages from the same origin, or all messages of the same type from the same origin. Technically it violates section 3.5 (page 21) by using a different random delay distribution than that suggested. If adopted section 3.5 should be modified to indicate this. Fourth an observation, without a specific suggestion here (although I have considered some specifics I omit here as the principles are more important). - OLSR timing for tuple expiry etc. is now defined using the Vtime (and for a HELLO message Htime) fields of a message, i.e. timing is based on the message originator's parameter settings. In addition to the case noted above, there are two other cases where timing is not taken from the originator and where significantly different values of parameters on different nodes could interact badly. - Jitter delay, based on parameter MAXJITTER. Note that it is possible, as currently defined, for a message to be delayed by more than the interval between messages. Ideally use of the message interval would be preferable to use of the hold time (Vtime) but typically these will be related. - Duplicate hold time. In this case basing hold time on Vtime would also provide greater extensibility to new message types that might be significantly more or less frequent. ******************************************************************** This email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient please delete it from your system and notify the sender. You should not copy it or use it for any purpose nor disclose or distribute its contents to any other person. ******************************************************************** _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 3 11:27:40 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA09163 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 11:27:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGhXz-0007FX-MX for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 11:27:20 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA3GRJZ2027864 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 11:27:19 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGhXz-0007FL-Fh for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 11:27:19 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA09123 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 11:27:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGhXy-0000J0-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 11:27:18 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGhXy-0000It-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 11:27:18 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGhXh-0007B0-GA; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 11:27:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGhWp-00076s-M4 for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 11:26:07 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA09078 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 11:25:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGhWo-0000IB-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 11:26:06 -0500 Received: from rodin.i2r.a-star.edu.sg ([192.122.139.27] helo=i2r.a-star.edu.sg) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGhWn-0000I7-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 11:26:06 -0500 Received: from newmailhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by i2r.a-star.edu.sg (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hA3GNxlN013588 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 00:23:59 +0800 (SGT) Received: from lit.org.sg (samson.i2r.org.sg [192.122.134.27]) by mailhost.lit.org.sg (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 Patch 1 (built Aug 19 2002)) with ESMTP id <0HNS008H3AZ96X@mailhost.lit.org.sg> for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 00:25:57 +0800 (SGT) Received: from localhost (stuss@localhost) by lit.org.sg (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6) with SMTP id hA3GPrI15871; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 00:25:56 +0800 (SGT) Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 00:25:53 +0800 (SGT) From: Sourabh Sharma Subject: Re: [manet] Need for DAD in Ad Hoc Networks In-reply-to: <003601c3a222$ea754e90$af29be9d@eeb253w2k> X-Sender: stuss@samson To: JP O Grady Cc: manet@ietf.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Authentication-warning: samson.i2r.a-star.edu.sg: stuss owned process doing -bs Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hello Grady, Thanks for your reply. My next question would be - Is there a way to disbale DAD in IPv6 implementation. as in can it be a configurable option ? because RFC2462 section 5.4 specifies DAD MUST take place on all unicast addresses Thanks, Sourabh On Mon, 3 Nov 2003, JP O Grady wrote: > What about IPv4. You may have a point in regard to IPv6 but obviously MACs cant be used in IPv4, therefore some sort of DAD process will be needed in IPv4. > > JP O Grady > Cork Institute of Technology > Ireland > > Subject: [manet] Need for DAD in Ad Hoc Networks > > Dear All, > > I would like some authoritative answers on this. > > Since IPv6 Autoconf scheme uses 48 bit MACID for autconfiguration > of IPaddress - DAD is proposed due to the following reasons: > - MAC Ids are designed to be unique but are not gauranteed. > - Some users/ devices may use random MAC IDs -->might lead to duplicates > > My argument for Not using DAD in Ad hoc networks is as follows: > > - Finding a node within an ad hoc network with the same MACID has > a very low probability > - Finding a node within an ad hoc network with the same MACID + SubNET ID > has an even lower probability. > In case of Small ad hoc networks - this probability can be safely > assumed to be zero. > > Thus, in case of using DSR ( where it is assumed that nw_diameter is > small --> especially in the case of IPv6 where each IP address in the > source route is 32 bytes, the network cannot support more than 5-7 > hops.) we can say that not using DAD will not cause any problems. > > Please let me know of your opinion on this. > > Regards, > Sourabh Sharma > I2R, Singapore > > > > > > -------------------Legal Disclaimer--------------------------------------- > > The above electronic mail transmission is confidential and intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Its contents may be protected by legal and/or professional privilege. Should it be received by you in error please contact the sender at the above quoted email address. Any unauthorised form of reproduction of this message is strictly prohibited. The Institute does not guarantee the security of any information electronically transmitted and is not liable if the information contained in this communication is not a proper and complete record of the message as transmitted by the sender nor for any delay in its receipt. > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 3 12:34:29 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA11683 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 12:34:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGiag-0002RF-FF for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 12:34:10 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA3HYAvF009372 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 12:34:10 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGiag-0002R5-BI for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 12:34:10 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA11674 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 12:33:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGiae-0001ND-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 12:34:08 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGiae-0001NA-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 12:34:08 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGiaY-0002Q0-7V; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 12:34:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGiZa-0002PZ-EA for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 12:33:02 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA11634 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 12:32:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGiZY-0001MW-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 12:33:00 -0500 Received: from pat.uio.no ([129.240.130.16] ident=7411) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGiZY-0001MO-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 12:33:00 -0500 Received: from mail-mx3.uio.no ([129.240.10.44]) by pat.uio.no with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGiZR-000098-5b; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 18:32:53 +0100 Received: from tolf.ifi.uio.no ([129.240.65.212]) by mail-mx3.uio.no with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1AGiZO-0001w1-CD; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 18:32:50 +0100 Received: from localhost (andreto@localhost) by tolf.ifi.uio.no ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 18:32:49 +0100 (MET) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 18:32:49 +0100 (MET) From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andreas_T=F8nnesen?= To: "Dearlove, Chris (UK)" cc: manet@ietf.org, T.Clausen@computer.org, Philippe.Jacquet@inria.fr Subject: Re: [manet] OLSR: RFC 3626 observations. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE X-MailScanner-Information: This message has been scanned for viruses/spam. Contact postmaster@uio.no if you have questions about this scanning. X-UiO-MailScanner: No virus found Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE On Mon, 3 Nov 2003, Dearlove, Chris (UK) wrote: > > - On receipt of a MID message and update of the Interface > Association Set to add a new entry, one or more interface > addresses which were previously assumed to be main addresses > will no longer be main addresses. There may then be two hop > tuples each containing an interface, rather than a main, address > of a two hop neighbours. This has the drawbacks both of having > entries which are incorrect, and not having entries which are > wanted, and losing the opportunity to "merge" entries. The > absence of any wanted entries lasts until the next appropriate > HELLO message, the unwanted entries last until they expire. > > The protocol could be modified such that if a MID message > is received (may qualify to only consider the case where it > adds a new entry to the Interface Association Set) and if > there are any two hop tuples with neighbour address contained > in the MID message then replace all of these two hop tuples > with a single two hop tuple using the MID message originator > address. The new tuple's expiry time should be the latest of > all the replace tuples expiry times. > A node must only use its main address as originator address in all packages, so one would never register nodes with an address that is not the main address of that node. So if I didn't missunderstand you, the case you describe should not occur. Andreas T=F8nnesen UniK University Graduation Center University of Oslo http://heim.ifi.uio.no/~andreto/uolsrd/index.cgi _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 3 12:36:33 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA11823 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 12:36:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGicb-0002tB-T4 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 12:36:14 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA3Ha9TS011099 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 12:36:09 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGicb-0002sw-I8 for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 12:36:09 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA11779 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 12:35:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGicZ-0001QT-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 12:36:07 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGicZ-0001QQ-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 12:36:07 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGicW-0002jm-8c; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 12:36:04 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGicI-0002h7-TC for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 12:35:50 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA11746 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 12:35:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGicH-0001Ph-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 12:35:49 -0500 Received: from cardinal.mail.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.121.226]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGic3-0001P3-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 12:35:35 -0500 Received: from user-2ivfk56.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.247.208.166] helo=erg.sri.com) by cardinal.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AGibu-0000gf-00; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 09:35:27 -0800 Message-ID: <3FA691DE.30205@erg.sri.com> Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 09:35:26 -0800 From: Richard Ogier User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011128 Netscape6/6.2.1 (emach0202) X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Dearlove, Chris (UK)" , manet@ietf.org Subject: Re: [manet] OLSR: RFC 3626 observations. References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chris, You made several good observations regarding OLSR, including the problem regarding out of order TC messages. Another fix to this problem is to do what OSPF does, i.e., require each TC message (or LSA) to include the entire neighbor set (which could be empty). An empty LSA also has a sequence number. To limit the message size, an LSA can be divided into pieces as in OSPFv3, each piece being identified by its Link State ID. This also fixes another problem when TC messages are partial: when the first TC message with a larger sequence number is received, assuming this TC message is partial, then all of the old tuples with the same originator are removed, and you are left with only a partial neighbor set until the other partial TC messages with the same sequence number are received, which may not happen for several seconds since flooding is not reliable. Regards, Richard Dearlove, Chris (UK) wrote: >- The protocol contains features (in section 9.5, page 46) > to handle out of order TC messages. However these features > are imperfect, they rely on the physically first/logically > second TC message adding an entry to the Topology Set > so that the physically second/logically first TC message > may be recognised as such and discarded. However if the > physically first/logically second TC message is empty > then no such entry will be added and the physically > second/logically first TC message will not be discarded. > It will add entries to the Topology Set, which defeats > the object of the empty TC message, at least partially. > > I can see one easy, but ugly, fix. This is that an > empty TC message could add a "dummy" entry to the > Topology Set. This could be one where both T_dest_addr > and T_last_addr are set to the originator address, > and T_seq is set to the ANSN. (T_time would be set as > usual.) The Routing Table update process would have to > be modified to disregard entries with T_last_addr equal > to T_dest_addr. However a cleaner approach would be > better. > _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 3 17:16:32 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA27625 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 17:16:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGmzd-0003CD-WD for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 17:16:14 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA3MGDOD012281 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 17:16:13 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGmzd-0003C0-SJ for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 17:16:13 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA27570 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 17:16:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGmzb-0006Tl-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 17:16:11 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGmzb-0006Ti-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 17:16:11 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGmzT-00039N-1r; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 17:16:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGmyh-00035q-NS for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 17:15:15 -0500 Received: from asgard.ietf.org (asgard.ietf.org [10.27.6.40]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA27507 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 17:15:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from apache by asgard.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.14) id 1AGmhs-0006ji-P1; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 16:57:52 -0500 X-test-idtracker: no From: The IESG To: IETF-Announce:; Cc: Internet Architecture Board , RFC Editor , Message-Id: Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 16:57:52 -0500 Subject: [manet] Document Action: 'Topology Dissemination Based on Reverse-Path Forwarding (TBRPF)' to Experimental RFC Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , The IESG has approved following document: - 'Topology Dissemination Based on Reverse-Path Forwarding (TBRPF) ' as an Experimental RFC This document is the product of the Mobile Ad-hoc Networks Working Group. The IESG contact persons are Alex Zinin and Bill Fenner. _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 3 19:18:29 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA05052 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 19:18:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGotd-0004OC-EE for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 19:18:09 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA40I9aO016866 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 19:18:09 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGotd-0004Nx-8s for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 19:18:09 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA05030 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 19:17:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGotb-0001ID-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 19:18:07 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGotb-0001IA-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 19:18:07 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGotV-0004Kk-JU; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 19:18:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGosu-0004J3-Ka for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 19:17:24 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA05021 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 19:17:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGost-0001Ho-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 19:17:23 -0500 Received: from patty.levels.unisa.edu.au ([130.220.36.156]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGoss-0001Hk-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 19:17:22 -0500 Received: from spri.levels.unisa.edu.au (morpheus [172.17.0.143]) by patty.levels.unisa.edu.au (8.12.10/8.12.2) with ESMTP id hA40HDv1006046 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 10:47:14 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <3FA6F008.5060905@spri.levels.unisa.edu.au> Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 10:47:12 +1030 From: Peter Pham User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020830 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: manet@ietf.org References: <20031102210559.358557af.shzju@eyou.com> <267790511.20561@eyou.com> <20031103133223.7eb029af.shzju@eyou.com> <3FA644D9.8606C628@mitre.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [manet] Power Saving in 802.11 Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all I have the following question and really appreaciate any feedback. I am interested to know how much power we save when we reduce the transmission range of the sender. That is the power that drives the transmitter. Let say we used P1 for the transmission of range R1(250 m for WLAN). If I reduce the transmission range to R2 (R2; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 19:28:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGp3G-0005Yl-GU for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 19:28:07 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA40S6up021365 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 19:28:06 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGp3G-0005YW-Cq for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 19:28:06 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA05479 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 19:27:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGp3E-0001T8-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 19:28:04 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGp3E-0001T5-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 19:28:04 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGp3B-0005Ue-G2; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 19:28:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGp2P-0005TY-La for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 19:27:13 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA05472 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 19:27:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGp2N-0001Sj-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 19:27:12 -0500 Received: from beru.its.uow.edu.au ([130.130.68.31]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGp2N-0001Sg-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 19:27:11 -0500 Received: from beru (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by beru.its.uow.edu.au (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA40R47q019823; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:27:05 +1100 (EST) Received: from inti.its.uow.edu.au ([130.130.37.4]) by beru.its.uow.edu.au (MailMonitor for SMTP v1.2.2 ) ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:27:04 +1100 (EST) Received: (from sendmail@localhost) by inti.its.uow.edu.au (8.12.9/8.12.9) id hA40R48L002340; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:27:04 +1100 (EST) Received: from hades.snrc.uow.edu.au (hades.snrc.uow.edu.au[130.130.10.100]) by inti.its.uow.edu.au (UWSMTPD 1.5.2) with ESMTP id 2552406.2334; Tuesday, 04 November 2003 11:27:02 +1100 Received: from hades (IDENT:0@hades.snrc.uow.edu.au [130.130.10.100]) by hades.snrc.uow.edu.au (8.12.10/8.12.4) with ESMTP id hA40R1Wh018191; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:27:01 +1100 Received: from neo.snrc.uow.edu.au ([130.130.10.106]) by hades.snrc.uow.edu.au (MailMonitor for SMTP v1.2.2 ) ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:27:01 +1100 (EST) From: Justin Lipman Reply-To: justin@titr.uow.edu.au Organization: TITR To: Peter Pham Subject: Re: [manet] Power Saving in 802.11 Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:26:59 +1100 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.3 References: <20031102210559.358557af.shzju@eyou.com> <3FA644D9.8606C628@mitre.org> <3FA6F008.5060905@spri.levels.unisa.edu.au> In-Reply-To: <3FA6F008.5060905@spri.levels.unisa.edu.au> Cc: manet@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200311041126.59882.justin@titr.uow.edu.au> X-MessageID: 2552406.2334 X-EnvelopeFrom: 2552406.2334 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Peter, I sent you a model a few weeks back... In my papers I always use a simple first order radio model: E_tx (k,d) = E_elec * k + E_amp * k * d^2 E_rx (k) = E_elec * k where E_elec = 50 nJ/bit E_amp = 100 pJ/(bit*m^2) as described in: Wendi Rabiner Heinzelman and Anantha Chandrakasan and Hari Balakrishnan, "Energy-Efficient Communication Protocol for Wireless Microsensor Networks", Proceedings of the Hawaii International Conference on System Sciences, 2000. Hope this helps, Justin - PhD Candidate Telecommunications & Information Technology Research Institute School of Computer, Electrical & Telecommunications Engineering University of Wollongong, Australia http://www.titr.uow.edu.au/~justin On Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:17 am, Peter Pham wrote: > Hi all > > I have the following question and really appreaciate any feedback. > > I am interested to know how much power we save when we reduce the > transmission range of the sender. That is the power that drives the > transmitter. Let say we used P1 for the transmission of range R1(250 m > for WLAN). If I reduce the transmission range to R2 (R2 power I will save ?. How can I express P2 as a function of P1 and the > two transmission range, packet length..etc...Is there any model that I > can use. > > Thanks > > Peter Pham > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > manet mailing list > manet@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet - _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 3 20:52:37 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA08209 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 20:52:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGqMi-0002cE-DD for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 20:52:17 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA41qGY6010048 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 20:52:16 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGqMi-0002bz-9E for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 20:52:16 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA08189 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 20:52:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGqMf-0002jM-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 20:52:13 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGqMf-0002jJ-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 20:52:13 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGqMU-0002at-7b; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 20:52:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGqMM-0002ab-TL for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 20:51:56 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA08177 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 20:51:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGqMK-0002j3-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 20:51:52 -0500 Received: from [129.254.114.50] (helo=pec.etri.re.kr) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGqMJ-0002iu-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 20:51:51 -0500 Received: from paulnb (paul3.etri.re.kr [129.254.112.196]) by pec.etri.re.kr (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hA42665l012312; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:06:07 +0900 (KST) Message-ID: <01d801c3a275$fba73ae0$c470fe81@etri.re.kr> From: "Jaehoon Paul Jeong" To: "Sourabh Sharma" Cc: "MANET WG" References: Subject: Re: [manet] Need for DAD in Ad Hoc Networks Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 10:50:10 +0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGkgU291cmFiaCwNCg0KTGlrZSB5b3VyIG9waW5pb24sIGluIElQdjYsIGFkZHJlc3MgZHVwbGlj YXRpb24gaGFyZGx5IGhhcHBlbnMsIGVzcGVjaWFsbHkgb24gdGhlIGJhc2lzIG9mIEVVSS02NCBm b3JtYXQuDQpIb3dldmVyLCB3ZSBuZWVkIHNvbWUgd2F5cyB0byBkZXRlY3QgYWRkcmVzcyBkdXBs aWNhdGlvbiBpbiBvcmRlciB0byBwcmV2ZW50IHJvdXRpbmcgcHJvYmxlbSANCmR1ZSB0byBhZGRy ZXNzIGNvbmZsaWN0Lg0KRm9yIGV4YW1wbGVzLCB0aGVyZSBhcmUgV2Vhay1EQUQgYW5kIFBhc3Np dmUtREFEIGV0Yy4NCllvdSBjYW4gYWxzbyByZWZlciB0byBteSBkcmFmdDsNCiAgaHR0cDovL3d3 dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9pbnRlcm5ldC1kcmFmdHMvZHJhZnQtamVvbmctYWRob2MtaXAtYWRkci1hdXRv Y29uZi0wMS50eHQNCg0KQWJvdXQgSVB2NiBsaW5rLWxvY2FsIGFkZHJlc3MsIHRoZSBjdXJyZW50 IERBRCwgU3Ryb25nLURBRCB3aXRoaW4gb25lLWhvcCwgY2FuIG5vdCBndWFyYW50ZWUNCnRoZSB1 bmlxdWVuZXNzIG9mIHRoZSBhZGRyZXNzIHdoZW4gREFEIGlzIHN1Y2Nlc3NmdWwgYnV0IGFkZHJl c3MgZHVwbGljYXRpb24gaGFwcGVucyBkdWUgdG8gTUFORVQgbWVyZ2VuY2UuDQpPZiBjb3Vyc2Us IHdoZW4gbGluay1sb2NhbCBhZGRyZXNzIGlzIGJhc2VkIG9uIEVVSS02NCwgdGhlIGR1cGxpY2F0 aW9uIHByb2JhYmlsaXR5IGlzIHZlcnkgbG93Lg0KSU1ITywgaW4gTUFORVQgaGF2aW5nIGR5bmFt aWMgdG9wb2xvZ3ksIElQdjYgbGluay1sb2NhbCBhZGRlc3MgYWxzbyBzZWVtcyB1c2VsZXNzLg0K DQpSZWdhcmRzLA0KUGF1bA0KDQotLS0tLSBPcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlIC0tLS0tIA0KRnJvbTog IlNvdXJhYmggU2hhcm1hIiA8c3R1c3NAaTJyLmEtc3Rhci5lZHUuc2c+DQpUbzogPG1hbmV0QGll dGYub3JnPg0KQ2M6IDxlbmcwMjM3N0BudXMuZWR1LnNnPg0KU2VudDogTW9uZGF5LCBOb3ZlbWJl ciAwMywgMjAwMyA5OjQ1IEFNDQpTdWJqZWN0OiBbbWFuZXRdIE5lZWQgZm9yIERBRCBpbiBBZCBI b2MgTmV0d29ya3MNCg0KDQo+IA0KPiANCj4gRGVhciBBbGwsDQo+IA0KPiAgSSB3b3VsZCBsaWtl IHNvbWUgYXV0aG9yaXRhdGl2ZSBhbnN3ZXJzIG9uIHRoaXMuDQo+IA0KPiAgU2luY2UgSVB2NiBB dXRvY29uZiBzY2hlbWUgdXNlcyA0OCBiaXQgTUFDSUQgZm9yIGF1dGNvbmZpZ3VyYXRpb24NCj4g IG9mIElQYWRkcmVzcyAtIERBRCBpcyBwcm9wb3NlZCBkdWUgdG8gdGhlIGZvbGxvd2luZyByZWFz b25zOg0KPiAgLSAgTUFDIElkcyBhcmUgZGVzaWduZWQgdG8gYmUgdW5pcXVlIGJ1dCBhcmUgbm90 IGdhdXJhbnRlZWQuDQo+ICAtICBTb21lIHVzZXJzLyBkZXZpY2VzIG1heSB1c2UgcmFuZG9tIE1B QyBJRHMgLS0+bWlnaHQgbGVhZCB0byBkdXBsaWNhdGVzDQo+IA0KPiAgTXkgYXJndW1lbnQgZm9y IE5vdCB1c2luZyBEQUQgaW4gQWQgaG9jIG5ldHdvcmtzIGlzIGFzIGZvbGxvd3M6DQo+IA0KPiAg LSBGaW5kaW5nIGEgbm9kZSB3aXRoaW4gYW4gYWQgaG9jIG5ldHdvcmsgd2l0aCB0aGUgc2FtZSBN QUNJRCBoYXMNCj4gICAgIGEgdmVyeSBsb3cgcHJvYmFiaWxpdHkNCj4gIC0gRmluZGluZyBhIG5v ZGUgd2l0aGluIGFuIGFkIGhvYyBuZXR3b3JrIHdpdGggdGhlIHNhbWUgTUFDSUQgKyBTdWJORVQg SUQNCj4gICAgaGFzIGFuIGV2ZW4gbG93ZXIgcHJvYmFiaWxpdHkuDQo+ICAgIEluIGNhc2Ugb2Yg U21hbGwgYWQgaG9jIG5ldHdvcmtzIC0gdGhpcyBwcm9iYWJpbGl0eSBjYW4gYmUgc2FmZWx5DQo+ ICAgIGFzc3VtZWQgdG8gYmUgemVyby4NCj4gDQo+ICAgVGh1cywgaW4gY2FzZSBvZiB1c2luZyBE U1IgKCB3aGVyZSBpdCBpcyBhc3N1bWVkIHRoYXQgbndfZGlhbWV0ZXIgaXMNCj4gICBzbWFsbCAt LT4gZXNwZWNpYWxseSBpbiB0aGUgY2FzZSBvZiBJUHY2IHdoZXJlIGVhY2ggSVAgYWRkcmVzcyBp biB0aGUNCj4gICBzb3VyY2Ugcm91dGUgaXMgMzIgYnl0ZXMsIHRoZSBuZXR3b3JrIGNhbm5vdCBz dXBwb3J0IG1vcmUgdGhhbiA1LTcNCj4gICAgaG9wcy4pIHdlIGNhbiBzYXkgdGhhdCBub3QgdXNp bmcgREFEIHdpbGwgbm90IGNhdXNlIGFueSBwcm9ibGVtcy4NCj4gDQo+ICBQbGVhc2UgbGV0IG1l IGtub3cgb2YgeW91ciBvcGluaW9uIG9uIHRoaXMuDQo+IA0KPiAgUmVnYXJkcywNCj4gIFNvdXJh YmggU2hhcm1hDQo+ICBJMlIsIFNpbmdhcG9yZQ0KPiANCj4gDQo+IF9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQo+IG1hbmV0IG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdA0KPiBt YW5ldEBpZXRmLm9yZw0KPiBodHRwczovL3d3dzEuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9t YW5ldA0KPiA= _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 3 21:11:40 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA08998 for ; 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Mon, 03 Nov 2003 21:11:16 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGqeu-0004LF-WE; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 21:11:05 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGqeZ-0004FZ-5N for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 21:10:43 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA08888 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 21:10:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGqeW-0002xw-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 21:10:40 -0500 Received: from [129.254.114.50] (helo=pec.etri.re.kr) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGqeV-0002xJ-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 21:10:39 -0500 Received: from paulnb (paul3.etri.re.kr [129.254.112.196]) by pec.etri.re.kr (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hA42Or5l012434; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:24:58 +0900 (KST) Message-ID: <01e801c3a278$9dc2f240$c470fe81@etri.re.kr> From: "Jaehoon Paul Jeong" To: "Sourabh Sharma" Cc: "MANET WG" References: Subject: Re: [manet] Need for DAD in Ad Hoc Networks Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:08:56 +0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 UGxlYXNlLCBsb29rIGF0IG15IGlubGluZSBjb21tZW50cyA6LSkNCg0KLS0tLS0gT3JpZ2luYWwg TWVzc2FnZSAtLS0tLSANCkZyb206ICJTb3VyYWJoIFNoYXJtYSIgPHN0dXNzQGkyci5hLXN0YXIu ZWR1LnNnPg0KDQo+IA0KPiANCj4gSGVsbG8gR3JhZHksDQo+IA0KPiAgVGhhbmtzIGZvciB5b3Vy IHJlcGx5LiBNeSBuZXh0IHF1ZXN0aW9uIHdvdWxkIGJlIC0gSXMgdGhlcmUgYSB3YXkNCj4gIHRv IGRpc2JhbGUgREFEICBpbiBJUHY2IGltcGxlbWVudGF0aW9uLiBhcyBpbiBjYW4gaXQgYmUgYQ0K PiAgY29uZmlndXJhYmxlIG9wdGlvbiA/DQo+ICBiZWNhdXNlIFJGQzI0NjIgc2VjdGlvbiA1LjQg c3BlY2lmaWVzIERBRCBNVVNUIHRha2UgcGxhY2Ugb24gYWxsIHVuaWNhc3QNCj4gIGFkZHJlc3Nl cw0KDQpJdCBkb2VzIHNvIGZvciBJUHY2IGxpbmstbG9jYWwuDQpBY2NvcmRpbmcgdG8gUkZDMjQ2 Miwgd2UgY2FuIHNraXAgREFEIGZvciBnbG9iYWwgSVB2NiBhZGRyZXNzLg0KLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLQ0KICAgVGh1cywgaWYgYSBub2RlIGhhcyBhbHJlYWR5IHZl cmlmaWVkIHRoZSB1bmlxdWVuZXNzIG9mIGEgbGluay1sb2NhbCBhZGRyZXNzLCANCiAgIGFkZGl0 aW9uYWwgYWRkcmVzc2VzIGNyZWF0ZWQgZnJvbSB0aGUgc2FtZSBpbnRlcmZhY2UgaWRlbnRpZmll ciBuZWVkIG5vdCBiZSB0ZXN0ZWQgaW5kaXZpZHVhbGx5Lg0KICAgSW4gY29udHJhc3QsIGFsbCBh ZGRyZXNzZXMgb2J0YWluZWQgbWFudWFsbHkgb3IgdmlhIHN0YXRlZnVsIGFkZHJlc3MNCiAgIGF1 dG9jb25maWd1cmF0aW9uIHNob3VsZCBiZSB0ZXN0ZWQgZm9yIHVuaXF1ZW5lc3MgaW5kaXZpZHVh bGx5LiBUbw0KICAgYWNjb21tb2RhdGUgc2l0ZXMgdGhhdCBiZWxpZXZlIHRoZSBvdmVyaGVhZCBv ZiBwZXJmb3JtaW5nIER1cGxpY2F0ZQ0KICAgQWRkcmVzcyBEZXRlY3Rpb24gb3V0d2VpZ2hzIGl0 cyBiZW5lZml0cywgdGhlIHVzZSBvZiBEdXBsaWNhdGUNCiAgIEFkZHJlc3MgRGV0ZWN0aW9uIGNh biBiZSBkaXNhYmxlZCB0aHJvdWdoIHRoZSBhZG1pbmlzdHJhdGl2ZSBzZXR0aW5nDQogICBvZiBh IHBlci1pbnRlcmZhY2UgY29uZmlndXJhdGlvbiBmbGFnLg0KLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLQ0KDQpBbnl3YXksIEkgYW0gbm90IHN1cmUgd2UgbmVlZCBJUHY2IGxpbmst bG9jYWwgYWRkcmVzcyBpbiBNQU5FVC4NCg0KL1BhdWw= _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 3 21:43:34 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA09953 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 21:43:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGrA1-0006fr-Ic for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 21:43:15 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA42hDs0025649 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 21:43:13 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGrA1-0006fc-ER for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 21:43:13 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA09919 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 21:43:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGr9y-0003Rp-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 21:43:10 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGr9y-0003Rm-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 21:43:10 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGr9p-0006bb-Sq; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 21:43:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGr93-0006aT-Fr for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 21:42:13 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA09893 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 21:42:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGr90-0003R7-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 21:42:10 -0500 Received: from [129.254.16.14] (helo=cms4.cms.etri.re.kr) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGr8v-0003QV-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 21:42:10 -0500 Received: from jafywinxp (pd412h.etri.re.kr [129.254.112.174]) by cms4.cms.etri.re.kr with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2657.72) id WA8PYV76; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:37:57 +0900 Reply-To: From: "HyunWook Cha" To: "'Christophe Jelger'" , Cc: "autonet" Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:41:37 +0900 Message-ID: <000001c3a27d$2b27b4a0$ae70fe81@jafywinxp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <3F9CF062.5070207@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr> Importance: Normal Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [manet] Comment on manet gateway autoconf draft. Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, Christophe. I briefly read your draft. Please see following comments. .GW_INFO_REFRESH_PERIOD(2 secs) is too short. This can degrade overall manet capability. .B_DISTANCE/F_DISTANCE - suffer from frequent change of global address in case of relatively high mobility as you mentioned. .B_STBILITY/F_STABILITY - I think this can not help prefix(addres) stability after all. In manet, it is not queranteed that a given path with prefix continuity will survive as you hope. In addition, your scheme allows forwarding of GW_INFO with same prefix as already configured one when node receives GW_INFOs. So, it is possible that a node can not receive fresh GW_INFO for current prefix after upstream link fails although alternate path toward correspon ding gateway exists and it should change its address. - Irrespective of type of underlying routing protocols, this appoach can cause inconsistency of route entry for gw and default route entry. This is ok for proactive routing protocols except for above issue. However, as for reactive routing protocols, prefix continuity does not help at all and routing header is needed to avoid ingress filtering problem. Becuase routing entry is created through routing protocol(you told that in your draft), path along which packets travers can be different from one with prefix continuity. If this is right, you should consider applicability to reactive routing protocols again. .Why do not you allow configuration of multiple global addresses from multiple gateways? I want to hear your answer. Thank you in advance. HyunWook _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 4 01:01:43 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA16862 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 01:01:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGuFn-00039V-Kp for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 01:01:24 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA461N5D012113 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 01:01:23 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGuFn-00039I-HQ for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 01:01:23 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA16813 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 01:01:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGuFY-0006T0-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 01:01:08 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGuFY-0006Sx-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 01:01:08 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGuFT-00033v-4I; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 01:01:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGuEx-00031o-GU for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 01:00:31 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA16759 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 01:00:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGuEu-0006RI-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 01:00:28 -0500 Received: from patty.levels.unisa.edu.au ([130.220.36.156]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGuEt-0006RE-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 01:00:28 -0500 Received: from spri.levels.unisa.edu.au (morpheus [172.17.0.143]) by patty.levels.unisa.edu.au (8.12.10/8.12.2) with ESMTP id hA460Qv1027008; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 16:30:26 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <3FA74077.9000906@spri.levels.unisa.edu.au> Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 16:30:23 +1030 From: Peter Pham User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020830 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: justin@titr.uow.edu.au CC: manet@ietf.org Subject: Re: [manet] Power Saving in 802.11 References: <20031102210559.358557af.shzju@eyou.com> <3FA644D9.8606C628@mitre.org> <3FA6F008.5060905@spri.levels.unisa.edu.au> <200311041126.59882.justin@titr.uow.edu.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Justin Thanks for the info. I really appreaciate this. However, it is questionable whether the model is close to the reality. In some other paper, in the receiving mode and idle mode, the node spends the same amount of energy approximately no matter whether it actually receives the data or not. Furthermore, it does not model the fact that for a sent packet every node around the sending station in a certain range will ``hear'' the packet thus will consume energy. Cheers Peter Pham Justin Lipman wrote: >Hi Peter, > >I sent you a model a few weeks back... > >In my papers I always use a simple first order radio model: > >E_tx (k,d) = E_elec * k + E_amp * k * d^2 >E_rx (k) = E_elec * k > >where > >E_elec = 50 nJ/bit >E_amp = 100 pJ/(bit*m^2) > >as described in: > >Wendi Rabiner Heinzelman and Anantha Chandrakasan and Hari Balakrishnan, >"Energy-Efficient Communication Protocol for Wireless Microsensor Networks", >Proceedings of the Hawaii International Conference on System Sciences, 2000. > >Hope this helps, >Justin > >- >PhD Candidate >Telecommunications & Information Technology Research Institute >School of Computer, Electrical & Telecommunications Engineering >University of Wollongong, Australia >http://www.titr.uow.edu.au/~justin > > >On Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:17 am, Peter Pham wrote: > > >>Hi all >> >>I have the following question and really appreaciate any feedback. >> >>I am interested to know how much power we save when we reduce the >>transmission range of the sender. That is the power that drives the >>transmitter. Let say we used P1 for the transmission of range R1(250 m >>for WLAN). If I reduce the transmission range to R2 (R2>power I will save ?. How can I express P2 as a function of P1 and the >>two transmission range, packet length..etc...Is there any model that I >>can use. >> >>Thanks >> >>Peter Pham >> >> >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>manet mailing list >>manet@ietf.org >>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet >> >> > >- > > > > >_______________________________________________ >manet mailing list >manet@ietf.org >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet > > > > _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 4 04:23:35 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA05173 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 04:23:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGxPA-0003Ui-CA for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 04:23:17 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA49NGJG013426 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 04:23:16 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGxP9-0003UT-Kq for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 04:23:15 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA05145 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 04:23:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGxP6-0001W9-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 04:23:12 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGxP6-0001W6-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 04:23:12 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGxOw-0003TP-RZ; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 04:23:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGxOL-0003Ql-Ip for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 04:22:25 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA05137 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 04:22:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGxOI-0001Vu-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 04:22:22 -0500 Received: from beru.its.uow.edu.au ([130.130.68.31]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGxOH-0001Vr-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 04:22:22 -0500 Received: from beru (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by beru.its.uow.edu.au (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA49ML7q004122; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 20:22:21 +1100 (EST) Received: from inti.its.uow.edu.au ([130.130.37.4]) by beru.its.uow.edu.au (MailMonitor for SMTP v1.2.2 ) ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 20:22:20 +1100 (EST) Received: (from sendmail@localhost) by inti.its.uow.edu.au (8.12.9/8.12.9) id hA49MKVD028564; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 20:22:20 +1100 (EST) Received: from hades.snrc.uow.edu.au (hades.snrc.uow.edu.au[130.130.10.100]) by inti.its.uow.edu.au (UWSMTPD 1.5.2) with ESMTP id 2584519.28543; Tuesday, 04 November 2003 20:22:15 +1100 Received: from hades (IDENT:0@hades.snrc.uow.edu.au [130.130.10.100]) by hades.snrc.uow.edu.au (8.12.10/8.12.4) with ESMTP id hA49MDWh024991; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 20:22:13 +1100 Received: from neo.snrc.uow.edu.au ([130.130.10.106]) by hades.snrc.uow.edu.au (MailMonitor for SMTP v1.2.2 ) ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 20:22:13 +1100 (EST) From: Justin Lipman Reply-To: justin@titr.uow.edu.au Organization: TITR To: Peter Pham Subject: Re: [manet] Power Saving in 802.11 Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 20:22:10 +1100 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.3 Cc: manet@ietf.org References: <20031102210559.358557af.shzju@eyou.com> <200311041126.59882.justin@titr.uow.edu.au> <3FA74077.9000906@spri.levels.unisa.edu.au> In-Reply-To: <3FA74077.9000906@spri.levels.unisa.edu.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200311042022.10536.justin@titr.uow.edu.au> X-MessageID: 2584519.28543 X-EnvelopeFrom: 2584519.28543 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Peter, > Thanks for the info. I really appreaciate this. > However, it is questionable whether the model is close to the reality. > In some other paper, in the receiving mode and idle mode, the node > spends the same amount of energy approximately no matter whether it > actually receives the data or not. If you consider Feeny's measurements. Idle power : 843mW , Receive power : 967mW , Transmit power : 1327mW. The model could probably be adapted to encorporate these values including idle time etc. However, Im pretty sure Feeny's paper has some linear models of consumption, does it not? I also think that differences between idle, receive and transmit power consumption are important when one considers the total number of packets sent and received by all nodes. Thus I think the validity of the model really depends on how you intend to use and interpret the results. One more point, since I know you are looking at power saving schemes for ad hoc networks. Perhaps you should look at something along the lines of Activity Scheduling as described in: J. Shaikh, J. Solano, I. Stojmenovic and J. Wu, New metrics for dominating set based energy efficient activity scheduling in ad hoc networks, Proc. WLN Workshop at IEEE Conf. on Local Computer Networks, Bonn, Germany, Oct. 20-24, 2003. It would be very interesting to find out the differences between idle, receive and transmit in newer 802.11 cards. > Furthermore, it does not model the fact that for a sent packet every > node around the sending station in a certain range will ``hear'' the > packet thus will consume energy. Yes it does. If you want to model the energy consumed by a broadcast, then every node upon receiving a k-bit frame should adjust its available energy by E_rx(k). Likewise the transmitting node should adjust its remaining energy by E_tx(k,d). It just does not account for idle energy over time. cheerio, Justin -- PhD Candidate Telecommunications & Information Technology Research Institute School of Computer, Electrical & Telecommunications Engineering University of Wollongong, Australia http://www.titr.uow.edu.au/~justin > Cheers > Peter Pham > > Justin Lipman wrote: > >Hi Peter, > > > >I sent you a model a few weeks back... > > > >In my papers I always use a simple first order radio model: > > > >E_tx (k,d) = E_elec * k + E_amp * k * d^2 > >E_rx (k) = E_elec * k > > > >where > > > >E_elec = 50 nJ/bit > >E_amp = 100 pJ/(bit*m^2) > > > >as described in: > > > >Wendi Rabiner Heinzelman and Anantha Chandrakasan and Hari Balakrishnan, > >"Energy-Efficient Communication Protocol for Wireless Microsensor > > Networks", Proceedings of the Hawaii International Conference on System > > Sciences, 2000. > > > >Hope this helps, > >Justin > > > >- > >PhD Candidate > >Telecommunications & Information Technology Research Institute > >School of Computer, Electrical & Telecommunications Engineering > >University of Wollongong, Australia > >http://www.titr.uow.edu.au/~justin > > > >On Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:17 am, Peter Pham wrote: > >>Hi all > >> > >>I have the following question and really appreaciate any feedback. > >> > >>I am interested to know how much power we save when we reduce the > >>transmission range of the sender. That is the power that drives the > >>transmitter. Let say we used P1 for the transmission of range R1(250 m > >>for WLAN). If I reduce the transmission range to R2 (R2 >>power I will save ?. How can I express P2 as a function of P1 and the > >>two transmission range, packet length..etc...Is there any model that I > >>can use. > >> > >>Thanks > >> > >>Peter Pham > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>_______________________________________________ > >>manet mailing list > >>manet@ietf.org > >>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet > > > >- > > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >manet mailing list > >manet@ietf.org > >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 4 05:10:38 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA06598 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 05:10:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGy8i-00078u-Ic for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 05:10:20 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA4AAK3t027456 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 05:10:20 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGy8i-00078g-0m for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 05:10:20 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA06569 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 05:10:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGy8e-0002Dq-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 05:10:16 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGy8e-0002Dn-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 05:10:16 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGy8T-00074b-0Q; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 05:10:05 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGy7u-000730-TF for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 05:09:30 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA06532 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 05:09:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGy7r-0002D7-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 05:09:27 -0500 Received: from clarinet.u-strasbg.fr ([130.79.90.157]) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGy7q-0002Cy-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 05:09:27 -0500 Received: (qmail 1588 invoked for bounce); 4 Nov 2003 10:09:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO clarinet.u-strasbg.fr) (lorchat@unknown) by unknown with RC4-MD5 encrypted SMTP; 4 Nov 2003 10:09:35 -0000 Message-ID: <3FA77ADC.50300@clarinet.u-strasbg.fr> Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 11:09:32 +0100 From: Jean Lorchat User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031020 Debian/1.5-1 X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: justin@titr.uow.edu.au CC: manet@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: [manet] Power Saving in 802.11] References: <3FA770D3.7010007@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr> In-Reply-To: <3FA770D3.7010007@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Peter & Justin, If you want some in-depth measurements and models, you can also consider the following reports (especially for TX power differences) : http://www.tkn.tu-berlin.de/publications/papers/tr_01_007.pdf and http://www.tkn.tu-berlin.de/publications/papers/networking2002_withcover.pdf Jean > Hi Peter, > >> Thanks for the info. I really appreaciate this. >> However, it is questionable whether the model is close to the reality. >> In some other paper, in the receiving mode and idle mode, the node >> spends the same amount of energy approximately no matter whether it >> actually receives the data or not. > > > If you consider Feeny's measurements. > Idle power : 843mW , Receive power : 967mW , Transmit power : 1327mW. > > The model could probably be adapted to encorporate these values > including idle > time etc. However, Im pretty sure Feeny's paper has some linear models of > consumption, does it not? I also think that differences between idle, > receive > and transmit power consumption are important when one considers the total > number of packets sent and received by all nodes. Thus I think the validity > of the model really depends on how you intend to use and interpret the > results. > > One more point, since I know you are looking at power saving schemes for ad > hoc networks. Perhaps you should look at something along the lines of > Activity Scheduling as described in: > > J. Shaikh, J. Solano, I. Stojmenovic and J. Wu, New metrics for > dominating set > based energy efficient activity scheduling in ad hoc networks, Proc. WLN > Workshop at IEEE Conf. on Local Computer Networks, Bonn, Germany, Oct. > 20-24, > 2003. > > It would be very interesting to find out the differences between idle, > receive > and transmit in newer 802.11 cards. > >> Furthermore, it does not model the fact that for a sent packet every >> node around the sending station in a certain range will ``hear'' the >> packet thus will consume energy. > > > Yes it does. If you want to model the energy consumed by a broadcast, then > every node upon receiving a k-bit frame should adjust its available > energy by > E_rx(k). Likewise the transmitting node should adjust its remaining > energy by > E_tx(k,d). It just does not account for idle energy over time. > > cheerio, > Justin > _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 4 05:32:29 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA07591 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 05:32:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGyTs-00018f-2F for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 05:32:12 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA4AWCfW004376 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 05:32:12 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGyTr-00018L-QX for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 05:32:11 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA07552 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 05:31:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGyTo-0002dc-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 05:32:08 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGyTn-0002dZ-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 05:32:07 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGyTi-00016b-5l; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 05:32:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGySp-00015T-5M for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 05:31:07 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA07522 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 05:30:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGySl-0002d5-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 05:31:03 -0500 Received: from smtp1.bae.co.uk ([20.138.254.61]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGySk-0002ce-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 05:31:02 -0500 Received: from ngbaux (ngbaux.msd.bae.co.uk [141.245.68.234]) by smtp1.bae.co.uk (Switch-2.2.8/Switch-2.2.8) with ESMTP id hA4AUWF00609 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 10:30:32 GMT Received: from bsrsmtp02.ng.bae.co.uk ([141.245.68.242]) by ngbaux.net.bae.co.uk (PMDF V5.2-33 #44998) with SMTP id <0HNT004JMP5IZ4@ngbaux.net.bae.co.uk> for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 10:29:42 +0000 (GMT) Received: from glkms0001.GREENLNK.NET ([10.15.184.1]) by 141.245.68.242 with InterScan Messaging Security Suite for SMTP; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 10:30:23 +0000 Received: from glkms0008.GREENLNK.NET ([10.15.184.8]) by glkms0001.GREENLNK.NET with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5329); Tue, 04 Nov 2003 10:30:25 +0000 Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 10:30:25 +0000 From: "Dearlove, Chris (UK)" Subject: RE: [manet] OLSR: RFC 3626 observations. To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Andreas_T=F8nnesen?= , "Dearlove, Chris (UK)" Cc: manet@ietf.org, T.Clausen@computer.org, Philippe.Jacquet@inria.fr Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6375.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Thread-Topic: [manet] OLSR: RFC 3626 observations. Thread-Index: AcOiMIj2/VQy68AdTCGOVSTLVnL6fgAiUVNw content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Nov 2003 10:30:25.0503 (UTC) FILETIME=[A8BE36F0:01C3A2BE] Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: Andreas T=F8nnesen [mailto:andreto@ifi.uio.no] > A node must only use its main address as originator address in all > packages, so one would never register nodes with an address=20 > that is not > the main address of that node. > So if I didn't missunderstand you, the case you describe should not > occur. Here's the scenario which I think has the effect I described Node A has one interface, A1, node B has one interface B1, node C has two interfaces, C1 and C0. Node C chooses address C0 as its main address. There are symmetric connections between A1 and B1 and between B1 and C1. These can be established before any MID message from node C is relevant. (In fact node A can't process a MID message from node C until they are established, on the assumption this is the only route from node A to node C.) Node B will broadcast a HELLO message containing address C1. The HELLO message will not contain C0 (because it contains C1). Node A will thus put address C1 into its two hop table because, there being no entry for node C in the interface association set, node A thinks the main address corresponding to C1 is C1. Later node A will receive node C's MID message and put an entry in its interface association set. Now HELLO messages received from node B will result in C0 being put in the two hop set. This leaves the C1 entry unwanted in the two hop set until it expires. My suggestion is that when the MID message associating C0 with C1 is received that the C1 entry in the two hop set is replaced by a matching C0 entry. (This is, in essence, actually not unlike what used to happen when two hop tuples had interface and main addresses.) ******************************************************************** This email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient please delete it from your system and notify the sender. You should not copy it or use it for any purpose nor disclose or distribute its contents to any other person. ******************************************************************** _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 4 05:40:31 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA07952 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 05:40:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGybd-00024k-Jm for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 05:40:14 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA4AeDJ3007972 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 05:40:13 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGybd-00024V-0T for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 05:40:13 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA07928 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 05:39:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGybZ-0002ne-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 05:40:09 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGybY-0002nb-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 05:40:08 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGybV-00020S-AU; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 05:40:05 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGyaq-0001z9-78 for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 05:39:24 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA07903 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 05:39:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGyam-0002nG-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 05:39:20 -0500 Received: from pat.uio.no ([129.240.130.16] ident=7411) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGyam-0002nD-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 05:39:20 -0500 Received: from mail-mx4.uio.no ([129.240.10.45]) by pat.uio.no with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGyah-00058x-TQ; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 11:39:15 +0100 Received: from tolf.ifi.uio.no ([129.240.65.212]) by mail-mx4.uio.no with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1AGyae-0000md-Sn; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 11:39:12 +0100 Received: from localhost (andreto@localhost) by tolf.ifi.uio.no ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:39:12 +0100 (MET) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:39:11 +0100 (MET) From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andreas_T=F8nnesen?= To: "Dearlove, Chris (UK)" cc: manet@ietf.org, T.Clausen@computer.org, Philippe.Jacquet@inria.fr Subject: RE: [manet] OLSR: RFC 3626 observations. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE X-MailScanner-Information: This message has been scanned for viruses/spam. Contact postmaster@uio.no if you have questions about this scanning. X-UiO-MailScanner: No virus found Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Dearlove, Chris (UK) wrote: > > From: Andreas T=F8nnesen [mailto:andreto@ifi.uio.no] > > A node must only use its main address as originator address in all > > packages, so one would never register nodes with an address > > that is not > > the main address of that node. > > So if I didn't missunderstand you, the case you describe should not > > occur. > > Here's the scenario which I think has the effect I described > > Node A has one interface, A1, node B has one interface B1, node C > has two interfaces, C1 and C0. Node C chooses address C0 as its > main address. > > There are symmetric connections between A1 and B1 and between > B1 and C1. These can be established before any MID message from > node C is relevant. (In fact node A can't process a MID message > from node C until they are established, on the assumption this > is the only route from node A to node C.) > > Node B will broadcast a HELLO message containing address C1. > The HELLO message will not contain C0 (because it contains C1). > No. Node C will use the address of C0 even tough it is sending on interface C1. So node B will use the main address of C(C0) in its HELLO message. The only time the address C1 is mentioned in any control traffic(OLSR)O is in MID messages. Nodes should _not_ ever use the sender address from the IP header when processing messages. The originator address on the OLSR message should be used. And this address is _always_ the senders main address. So IMO the scenario you describe could not occure. Andreas T=F8nnesen UniK University Graduation Center University of Oslo http://heim.ifi.uio.no/~andreto/uolsrd/index.cgi _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 4 05:53:28 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA08312 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 05:53:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGyoA-0002bp-7s for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 05:53:10 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA4ArAke010023 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 05:53:10 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGyoA-0002ba-2f for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 05:53:10 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA08266 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 05:52:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGyo6-0002xh-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 05:53:06 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGyo5-0002xe-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 05:53:05 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGyo2-0002Xh-74; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 05:53:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGyng-0002XR-Hw for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 05:52:40 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA08263 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 05:52:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGync-0002xJ-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 05:52:36 -0500 Received: from beru.its.uow.edu.au ([130.130.68.31]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGynb-0002xF-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 05:52:36 -0500 Received: from beru (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by beru.its.uow.edu.au (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA4AqR7q021035; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 21:52:27 +1100 (EST) Received: from inti.its.uow.edu.au ([130.130.37.4]) by beru.its.uow.edu.au (MailMonitor for SMTP v1.2.2 ) ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 21:52:27 +1100 (EST) Received: (from sendmail@localhost) by inti.its.uow.edu.au (8.12.9/8.12.9) id hA4AqRWg016748; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 21:52:27 +1100 (EST) Received: from hades.snrc.uow.edu.au (hades.snrc.uow.edu.au[130.130.10.100]) by inti.its.uow.edu.au (UWSMTPD 1.5.2) with ESMTP id 2589928.16725; Tuesday, 04 November 2003 21:52:24 +1100 Received: from hades (IDENT:0@hades.snrc.uow.edu.au [130.130.10.100]) by hades.snrc.uow.edu.au (8.12.10/8.12.4) with ESMTP id hA4AqMWh025871; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 21:52:22 +1100 Received: from neo.snrc.uow.edu.au ([130.130.10.106]) by hades.snrc.uow.edu.au (MailMonitor for SMTP v1.2.2 ) ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 21:52:22 +1100 (EST) From: Justin Lipman Reply-To: justin@titr.uow.edu.au Organization: TITR To: Jean Lorchat Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: [manet] Power Saving in 802.11] Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 21:52:19 +1100 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.3 Cc: manet@ietf.org References: <3FA770D3.7010007@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr> <3FA77ADC.50300@clarinet.u-strasbg.fr> In-Reply-To: <3FA77ADC.50300@clarinet.u-strasbg.fr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200311042152.19231.justin@titr.uow.edu.au> X-MessageID: 2589928.16725 X-EnvelopeFrom: 2589928.16725 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jean, Thats excellent! Thankyou! =46rom your conclusion (quick read), it would seem that the first order rad= io=20 model I quoted is reasonably accurate in terms of reception and transmissio= n? Cheers, Justin =2D-=20 PhD Candidate Telecommunications & Information Technology Research Institute School of Computer, Electrical & Telecommunications Engineering University of Wollongong, Australia=20 http://www.titr.uow.edu.au/~justin On Tue, 4 Nov 2003 09:09 pm, Jean Lorchat wrote: > Hi Peter & Justin, > > If you want some in-depth measurements and models, you can also consider > the following reports (especially for TX power differences) : > > http://www.tkn.tu-berlin.de/publications/papers/tr_01_007.pdf > and > http://www.tkn.tu-berlin.de/publications/papers/networking2002_withcover.= pd >f > > Jean > > > Hi Peter, > > > >> Thanks for the info. I really appreaciate this. > >> However, it is questionable whether the model is close to the reality. > >> In some other paper, in the receiving mode and idle mode, the node > >> spends the same amount of energy approximately no matter whether it > >> actually receives the data or not. > > > > If you consider Feeny's measurements. > > Idle power : 843mW , Receive power : 967mW , Transmit power : 1327mW. > > > > The model could probably be adapted to encorporate these values > > including idle > > time etc. However, Im pretty sure Feeny's paper has some linear models > > of consumption, does it not? I also think that differences between idle, > > receive > > and transmit power consumption are important when one considers the tot= al > > number of packets sent and received by all nodes. Thus I think the > > validity of the model really depends on how you intend to use and > > interpret the results. > > > > One more point, since I know you are looking at power saving schemes for > > ad hoc networks. Perhaps you should look at something along the lines of > > Activity Scheduling as described in: > > > > J. Shaikh, J. Solano, I. Stojmenovic and J. Wu, New metrics for > > dominating set > > based energy efficient activity scheduling in ad hoc networks, Proc. WLN > > Workshop at IEEE Conf. on Local Computer Networks, Bonn, Germany, Oct. > > 20-24, > > 2003. > > > > It would be very interesting to find out the differences between idle, > > receive > > and transmit in newer 802.11 cards. > > > >> Furthermore, it does not model the fact that for a sent packet every > >> node around the sending station in a certain range will ``hear'' the > >> packet thus will consume energy. > > > > Yes it does. If you want to model the energy consumed by a broadcast, > > then every node upon receiving a k-bit frame should adjust its available > > energy by > > E_rx(k). Likewise the transmitting node should adjust its remaining > > energy by > > E_tx(k,d). It just does not account for idle energy over time. > > > > cheerio, > > Justin > > _______________________________________________ > manet mailing list > manet@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 4 06:00:33 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA08643 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 06:00:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGyv0-0003As-Jt for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 06:00:16 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA4B0ESC012196 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 06:00:14 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGyv0-0003Ad-AL for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 06:00:14 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA08577 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 06:00:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGyuw-00038m-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 06:00:10 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGyuv-00038j-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 06:00:09 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGyuq-00036J-Hf; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 06:00:04 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGyue-00035Y-Ir for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 05:59:52 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA08544 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 05:59:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGyua-00035v-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 05:59:48 -0500 Received: from smtp-bedford-x.mitre.org ([192.160.51.76] helo=smtp-bedford.mitre.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGyua-00035s-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 05:59:48 -0500 Received: from smtp-bedford.mitre.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp-bedford.mitre.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id hA4Axn704370 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 05:59:49 -0500 Received: from smtpsrv1.mitre.org (smtpsrv1.mitre.org [129.83.20.101]) by smtp-bedford.mitre.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id hA4AxnX04366; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 05:59:49 -0500 Received: from MAILHUB1 (mailhub1.mitre.org [129.83.20.31]) by smtpsrv1.mitre.org (8.12.9/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hA4Axmv4016432; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 05:59:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from wmodempoo1-117.mitre.org (128.29.251.117) by mailhub1.mitre.org with SMTP id 4833775; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 05:59:45 -0500 Message-ID: <3FA7869E.B1EECBA3@mitre.org> Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 05:59:43 -0500 From: John Stine Organization: The MITRE Corporation X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en]C-20020130M (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: justin@titr.uow.edu.au CC: Peter Pham , manet@ietf.org Subject: Re: [manet] Power Saving in 802.11 References: <20031102210559.358557af.shzju@eyou.com> <200311041126.59882.justin@titr.uow.edu.au> <3FA74077.9000906@spri.levels.unisa.edu.au> <200311042022.10536.justin@titr.uow.edu.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I believe it is important to realize that Feeney did not measure the energy consumed in an idle state but observed that an active node that does not process an arriving packet consumes less energy than a node that tries to process an incoming packet. The paradox here is that a node will consume more energy when there are no packets being sent. This conservation occurs only after discerning that an incoming packet is not intended for a node. The node is still very much active not idle. This energy conservation is not part of any protocol and occurs simply because the incoming packet is not processed. There is nothing to study here. Meanwhile, 802.11 devices have doze states that consume significantly less energy than that specified below which can be controlled by protocols so energy can be conserved when no one is using the network. Its power is usually in the manufacturer's literature. What is usually missing is the time to move in and out of that state. If these transition times are large, this state is hard to exploit. John Justin Lipman wrote: > Hi Peter, > > > Thanks for the info. I really appreaciate this. > > However, it is questionable whether the model is close to the reality. > > In some other paper, in the receiving mode and idle mode, the node > > spends the same amount of energy approximately no matter whether it > > actually receives the data or not. > > If you consider Feeny's measurements. > Idle power : 843mW , Receive power : 967mW , Transmit power : 1327mW. > > The model could probably be adapted to encorporate these values including idle > time etc. However, Im pretty sure Feeny's paper has some linear models of > consumption, does it not? I also think that differences between idle, receive > and transmit power consumption are important when one considers the total > number of packets sent and received by all nodes. Thus I think the validity > of the model really depends on how you intend to use and interpret the > results. > > One more point, since I know you are looking at power saving schemes for ad > hoc networks. Perhaps you should look at something along the lines of > Activity Scheduling as described in: > > J. Shaikh, J. Solano, I. Stojmenovic and J. Wu, New metrics for dominating set > based energy efficient activity scheduling in ad hoc networks, Proc. WLN > Workshop at IEEE Conf. on Local Computer Networks, Bonn, Germany, Oct. 20-24, > 2003. > > It would be very interesting to find out the differences between idle, receive > and transmit in newer 802.11 cards. > > > Furthermore, it does not model the fact that for a sent packet every > > node around the sending station in a certain range will ``hear'' the > > packet thus will consume energy. > > Yes it does. If you want to model the energy consumed by a broadcast, then > every node upon receiving a k-bit frame should adjust its available energy by > E_rx(k). Likewise the transmitting node should adjust its remaining energy by > E_tx(k,d). It just does not account for idle energy over time. > > cheerio, > Justin > > -- > PhD Candidate > Telecommunications & Information Technology Research Institute > School of Computer, Electrical & Telecommunications Engineering > University of Wollongong, Australia > http://www.titr.uow.edu.au/~justin > > > Cheers > > Peter Pham > > > > Justin Lipman wrote: > > >Hi Peter, > > > > > >I sent you a model a few weeks back... > > > > > >In my papers I always use a simple first order radio model: > > > > > >E_tx (k,d) = E_elec * k + E_amp * k * d^2 > > >E_rx (k) = E_elec * k > > > > > >where > > > > > >E_elec = 50 nJ/bit > > >E_amp = 100 pJ/(bit*m^2) > > > > > >as described in: > > > > > >Wendi Rabiner Heinzelman and Anantha Chandrakasan and Hari Balakrishnan, > > >"Energy-Efficient Communication Protocol for Wireless Microsensor > > > Networks", Proceedings of the Hawaii International Conference on System > > > Sciences, 2000. > > > > > >Hope this helps, > > >Justin > > > > > >- > > >PhD Candidate > > >Telecommunications & Information Technology Research Institute > > >School of Computer, Electrical & Telecommunications Engineering > > >University of Wollongong, Australia > > >http://www.titr.uow.edu.au/~justin > > > > > >On Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:17 am, Peter Pham wrote: > > >>Hi all > > >> > > >>I have the following question and really appreaciate any feedback. > > >> > > >>I am interested to know how much power we save when we reduce the > > >>transmission range of the sender. That is the power that drives the > > >>transmitter. Let say we used P1 for the transmission of range R1(250 m > > >>for WLAN). If I reduce the transmission range to R2 (R2 > >>power I will save ?. How can I express P2 as a function of P1 and the > > >>two transmission range, packet length..etc...Is there any model that I > > >>can use. > > >> > > >>Thanks > > >> > > >>Peter Pham > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >>_______________________________________________ > > >>manet mailing list > > >>manet@ietf.org > > >>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet > > > > > >- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > > >manet mailing list > > >manet@ietf.org > > >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet > > _______________________________________________ > manet mailing list > manet@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 4 07:28:30 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA11711 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 07:28:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH0I6-000181-Vw for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 07:28:11 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA4CSAwM004331 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 07:28:10 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH0I6-00017m-Sa for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 07:28:10 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA11693 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 07:27:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH0I6-0004Tv-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 07:28:10 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH0I5-0004Ts-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 07:28:09 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH0Hy-00015a-8b; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 07:28:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH0HE-00014D-8i for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 07:27:16 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA11674 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 07:27:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH0HD-0004Tl-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 07:27:15 -0500 Received: from smtp1.bae.co.uk ([20.138.254.61]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH0HC-0004TP-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 07:27:15 -0500 Received: from ngbaux (ngbaux.msd.bae.co.uk [141.245.68.234]) by smtp1.bae.co.uk (Switch-2.2.8/Switch-2.2.8) with ESMTP id hA4CQeF11643 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 12:26:40 GMT Received: from bsrsmtp02.ng.bae.co.uk ([141.245.68.242]) by ngbaux.net.bae.co.uk (PMDF V5.2-33 #44998) with SMTP id <0HNT00JEQUJ3NW@ngbaux.net.bae.co.uk> for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 12:25:51 +0000 (GMT) Received: from glkms0002.GREENLNK.NET ([10.15.184.2]) by 141.245.68.242 with InterScan Messaging Security Suite for SMTP; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 12:26:31 +0000 Received: from glkms0008.GREENLNK.NET ([10.15.184.8]) by glkms0002.GREENLNK.NET with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5329); Tue, 04 Nov 2003 12:26:34 +0000 Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 12:26:33 +0000 From: "Dearlove, Chris (UK)" Subject: RE: [manet] OLSR: RFC 3626 observations. To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Andreas_T=F8nnesen?= Cc: manet@ietf.org, T.Clausen@computer.org, Philippe.Jacquet@inria.fr Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6375.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Thread-Topic: [manet] OLSR: RFC 3626 observations. Thread-Index: AcOiv+pgVWAUlt5NRWOutU1Pw3fwPAADNvWA content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Nov 2003 12:26:34.0256 (UTC) FILETIME=[E2718900:01C3A2CE] Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > No. Node C will use the address of C0 even tough it is sending on > interface C1. So node B will use the main address of C(C0) in=20 > its HELLO message. A HELLO message sent by node C will use C0 as its main address, C1 will be used as its IP source address. Then (section 7.1.1 of the RFC, page 34) a link tuple will be created at node B with L_neighbor_iface_addr =3D Source Address. (Not Originator Address.) When node B sends a HELLO message it will use L_neighbot_iface_addr (RFC section 6.2, page 31: "L_neighbor_iface_addr is advertised") so B will, as I said, advertise C1 not C0 in its HELLO messages. In other words I believe the scenario I described does occur. ******************************************************************** This email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient please delete it from your system and notify the sender. You should not copy it or use it for any purpose nor disclose or distribute its contents to any other person. ******************************************************************** _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 4 07:47:29 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA12474 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 07:47:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH0aU-0002SM-HW for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 07:47:10 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA4ClAQP009436 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 07:47:10 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH0aU-0002S7-CN for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 07:47:10 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA12452 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 07:46:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH0aT-0004mA-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 07:47:09 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH0aT-0004m7-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 07:47:09 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH0aL-0002Nb-3m; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 07:47:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH0Zv-0002NI-M4 for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 07:46:35 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA12445 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 07:46:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH0Zu-0004ly-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 07:46:34 -0500 Received: from pat.uio.no ([129.240.130.16] ident=7411) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH0Zu-0004ln-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 07:46:34 -0500 Received: from mail-mx2.uio.no ([129.240.10.30]) by pat.uio.no with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH0Zq-0004Px-Bh; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 13:46:30 +0100 Received: from fimm.ifi.uio.no ([129.240.65.205]) by mail-mx2.uio.no with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1AH0Yj-0001yR-2N; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 13:45:21 +0100 Received: from localhost (andreto@localhost) by fimm.ifi.uio.no ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 13:45:20 +0100 (MET) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 13:45:20 +0100 (MET) From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andreas_T=F8nnesen?= To: "Dearlove, Chris (UK)" cc: manet@ietf.org Subject: RE: [manet] OLSR: RFC 3626 observations. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE X-MailScanner-Information: This message has been scanned for viruses/spam. Contact postmaster@uio.no if you have questions about this scanning. X-UiO-MailScanner: No virus found Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Dearlove, Chris (UK) wrote: > > From: Andreas T=F8nnesen [mailto:andreto@ifi.uio.no] > > A node must only use its main address as originator address in all > > packages, so one would never register nodes with an address > > that is not > > the main address of that node. > > So if I didn't missunderstand you, the case you describe should not > > occur. > > Here's the scenario which I think has the effect I described > > Node A has one interface, A1, node B has one interface B1, node C > has two interfaces, C1 and C0. Node C chooses address C0 as its > main address. > > There are symmetric connections between A1 and B1 and between > B1 and C1. These can be established before any MID message from > node C is relevant. (In fact node A can't process a MID message > from node C until they are established, on the assumption this > is the only route from node A to node C.) > > Node B will broadcast a HELLO message containing address C1. > The HELLO message will not contain C0 (because it contains C1). > > Node A will thus put address C1 into its two hop table because, > there being no entry for node C in the interface association set, > node A thinks the main address corresponding to C1 is C1. > > Later node A will receive node C's MID message and put an entry > in its interface association set. Now HELLO messages received > from node B will result in C0 being put in the two hop set. This > leaves the C1 entry unwanted in the two hop set until it expires. > > My suggestion is that when the MID message associating C0 with > C1 is received that the C1 entry in the two hop set is replaced > by a matching C0 entry. (This is, in essence, actually not unlike > what used to happen when two hop tuples had interface and main > addresses.) > > ******************************************************************** > This email and any attachments are confidential to the intended > recipient and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended > recipient please delete it from your system and notify the sender. > You should not copy it or use it for any purpose nor disclose or > distribute its contents to any other person. > ******************************************************************** > My bad. You are absolutly right. Time to read up on the RFC it seems :) Andreas T=F8nnesen UniK University Graduation Center University of Oslo http://heim.ifi.uio.no/~andreto/uolsrd/index.cgi _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 4 07:50:27 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA12622 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 07:50:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH0dL-0002l8-WE for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 07:50:08 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA4Co7Zp010600 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 07:50:07 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH0dL-0002kt-RM for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 07:50:07 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA12575 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 07:49:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH0dL-0004pR-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 07:50:07 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH0dK-0004pO-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 07:50:06 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH0dG-0002go-ME; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 07:50:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH0ci-0002gL-OK for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 07:49:28 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA12566 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 07:49:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH0ch-0004pE-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 07:49:27 -0500 Received: from wasp.ece.queensu.ca ([130.15.22.4]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH0ch-0004pB-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 07:49:27 -0500 Received: from Acer100 ([24.226.32.182]) by wasp.ECE.QUEENSU.CA with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Tue, 4 Nov 2003 07:50:08 -0500 From: "Chi-Hsiang Yeh" To: Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 07:57:11 -0500 Message-ID: <000b01c3a2d3$2cf63d00$6ea8fea9@Acer100> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Nov 2003 12:50:08.0234 (UTC) FILETIME=[2D3D74A0:01C3A2D2] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [manet] Extension to 802.11 needed for MANET? Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, I'll appreciate your opinions toward the following issue. In the literature, IEEE 802.11 is the most commonly assumed MAC protocol for ad hoc networks. Most ad hoc network testbeds are also built based on IEEE 802.11. However, some problems (e.g., concerning power control, interference, QoS, directional antennas, security, or radio efficiency) will be introduced when the MAC protocol of IEEE 802.11/11e is applied to multihop networking environments, leading to inefficiency and difficulties in QoS provisioning. Do you think we need an extension to the MAC protocols of IEEE 802.11 and 802.11e for ad hoc networks and multihop WLANs? Chi-Hsiang Yeh ___________________________________________________________ Chi-Hsiang Yeh (Mr./Dr./Prof.) Dept. of Electrical & Computer Eng. Queen's University Kingston, Ontario, K7L 3N6 Canada phone: +1 613-533-6368 fax: +1 613-533-6615 e-mail: chi-hsiang.yeh@ece.queensu.ca , yeh@ee.queensu.ca URL: http://www.ece.queensu.ca/hpages/faculty/yeh/ ___________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 4 08:11:32 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA13288 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 08:11:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH0xk-0004UJ-9z for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 08:11:13 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA4DBCRM017245 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 08:11:12 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH0xk-0004U4-5m for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 08:11:12 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA13256 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 08:11:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH0xj-00058y-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 08:11:11 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH0xi-00058v-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 08:11:10 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH0xb-0004Sx-Fr; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 08:11:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH0x6-0004SP-Qm for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 08:10:33 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA13214 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 08:10:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH0x5-00057u-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 08:10:31 -0500 Received: from dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr ([130.79.44.193]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH0x1-00057r-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 08:10:31 -0500 Received: from dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr (patinet.u-strasbg.fr [130.79.90.172]) by dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian-6.6) with ESMTP id hA4DKmnu027246; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 14:20:48 +0100 Message-ID: <3FA7A552.4070309@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr> Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 14:10:42 +0100 From: Christophe Jelger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031013 Thunderbird/0.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: manet@ietf.org, autonet Subject: Re: [manet] Comment on manet gateway autoconf draft. References: <000001c3a27d$2b27b4a0$ae70fe81@jafywinxp> In-Reply-To: <000001c3a27d$2b27b4a0$ae70fe81@jafywinxp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi HyunWook and thanks for your comments, I will reply to your comments one by one, see my answers below. HyunWook Cha wrote: > Hello, Christophe. > > I briefly read your draft. > Please see following comments. > > .GW_INFO_REFRESH_PERIOD(2 secs) is too short. This can degrade overall > manet capability. Well in fact this value may change, and actually it is not easy to find a suitable value. I mean, if this value is too big then we won't have any reactivity to topological changes. In the mean time, I do not agree with you when you say that it degrades the performance of the manet, as with our proposal each node does one (local to its 1-hop neighborhood) broadcast every GW_INFO_REFRESH_PEIOD. The size of the broadcasted message itself is very small (24 bytes for the data + IPv6 header). I don't think such a small overhead can that much degrade performance. > > .B_DISTANCE/F_DISTANCE > - suffer from frequent change of global address in case of relatively > high mobility as you mentioned. As mentioned in the draft, we cannot have shortest-path and stability at the same. > > .B_STBILITY/F_STABILITY > - I think this can not help prefix(addres) stability after all. In > manet, it is not queranteed that a given path with prefix continuity > will survive as you hope. The aim of our proposal is to maintain such a path. The maximum time during which prefix continuity may be broken is equal to NEIGH_LIFE (i.e. 6 seconds). Once again it's a trade-off between stability and reactivity. > In addition, your scheme allows forwarding of > GW_INFO with same prefix as already configured one when node receives > GW_INFOs. So, it is possible that a node can not receive fresh GW_INFO > for current prefix after upstream link fails although alternate path > toward correspon ding gateway exists and it should change its address. This is correct. The lifetime of an upstream neighbor entry is equal to NEIGH_LIFE. Once again we did not want to be too reactive because a GW_INFO may be lost (due to collisions) but the neighbor may still be in radio range. In that case we do not want to change the upstream neighbor too quickly. > - Irrespective of type of underlying routing protocols, this appoach can > cause inconsistency of route entry for gw and default route entry. This > is ok for proactive routing protocols except for above issue. However, > as for reactive routing protocols, prefix continuity does not help at > all and routing header is needed to avoid ingress filtering problem. > Becuase routing entry is created through routing protocol(you told that > in your draft), path along which packets travers can be different from > one with prefix continuity. If this is right, you should consider > applicability to reactive routing protocols again. Well in fact this is mentioned in the draft, i.e. there might be a different next hop entry for default route (added by our protocol) and for gateway/128 route (added by proactive routing protocol), in the case of proactive protocols. With F_DISTANCE, it is easy to show that the alternate path is also a shortest-path. With F_STABILITY, the alternate path may be longer than shortest-path, but (during a stady-state period) all nodes on this path use the same prefix, so we don't need a routing header : that is our main objective. Now with reactive protocols, we don't add a default route. The reactive routing protocol is in charge of route discovery. If the prefix continuity condition is satisfied, it means that there exists, between a node A with prefix P and its gateway G, a path of nodes with prefix P. If we want to avoid the need of a routing header, there should be a condition in routing protocol operation : "don't accept R_REP (for a destination address outside manet) from nodes that use a different prefix". This condition would impose (in a recursive manner) that the path would be composed of nodes with prefix P. > > .Why do not you allow configuration of multiple global addresses from > multiple gateways? Mainly because we favor prefix continuity. A node could have more than one global address but it should then use the one for which prefix continuity is maintained. In our proposal we use only one global address, but it is changed (with some delay) if a topological change occurs. In fact and again our proposal avoids the need of a routing header. Actuallly it can of course be interesting to have multiple global addresses, and this something we may add in the future, if we manage to come up with a cleaver idea on how we can use these addresses efficiently. > > I want to hear your answer. > > Thank you in advance. > > HyunWook > > > _______________________________________________ > manet mailing list > manet@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 4 08:31:43 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA13872 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 08:31:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH1HH-0005Kk-Ic for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 08:31:24 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA4DVNVX020492 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 08:31:23 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH1HH-0005KR-Ci for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 08:31:23 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA13855 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 08:31:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH1HG-0005TL-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 08:31:22 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH1HF-0005TI-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 08:31:21 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH1Gw-0005Is-A5; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 08:31:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH1GI-0005Gp-Fn for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 08:30:22 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA13792 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 08:30:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH1GH-0005SP-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 08:30:21 -0500 Received: from clarinet.u-strasbg.fr ([130.79.90.157]) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH1GG-0005SM-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 08:30:20 -0500 Received: (qmail 3003 invoked for bounce); 4 Nov 2003 13:30:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO clarinet.u-strasbg.fr) (lorchat@unknown) by unknown with RC4-MD5 encrypted SMTP; 4 Nov 2003 13:30:28 -0000 Message-ID: <3FA7A9F0.3060502@clarinet.u-strasbg.fr> Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 14:30:24 +0100 From: Jean Lorchat User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031020 Debian/1.5-1 X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: justin@titr.uow.edu.au CC: manet@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: [manet] Power Saving in 802.11] References: <3FA770D3.7010007@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr> <3FA77ADC.50300@clarinet.u-strasbg.fr> <200311042152.19231.justin@titr.uow.edu.au> In-Reply-To: <200311042152.19231.justin@titr.uow.edu.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Justin, > From your conclusion (quick read), it would seem that the first order radio > model I quoted is reasonably accurate in terms of reception and transmission? Although these are not my conclusions (I'm not the author), that's what it seems. However, I think that John is right when he states that we should differenciate so-called idle mode corresponding to "discarding a packet not intended to us" and real sleep mode that 802.11 hardware is capable of (namely PSP in infrastructures). But knowing this, you must also have a way to use it in adhoc mode (and I don't know whether adhoc PSP is a good solution for manets...) ? or do you mean MAC modifications ? Jean _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 4 08:45:30 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA14508 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 08:45:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH1Ud-0006kT-IU for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 08:45:11 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA4DjBAk025935 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 08:45:11 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH1Ud-0006kE-Cz for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 08:45:11 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA14487 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 08:44:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH1Uc-0005i1-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 08:45:10 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH1Ub-0005hy-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 08:45:09 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH1UU-0006gE-5T; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 08:45:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH1Ti-0006e7-0Q for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 08:44:14 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA14424 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 08:44:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH1Tg-0005fK-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 08:44:12 -0500 Received: from dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr ([130.79.44.193]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH1Tg-0005fH-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 08:44:12 -0500 Received: from dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr (patinet.u-strasbg.fr [130.79.90.172]) by dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian-6.6) with ESMTP id hA4Dsbnu027808 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 14:54:38 +0100 Message-ID: <3FA7AD3F.2000203@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr> Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 14:44:31 +0100 From: Christophe Jelger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031013 Thunderbird/0.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: manet@ietf.org Subject: Re: FW: [manet] I-D ACTION:draft-cha-manet-extended-support-globalv6-00.txt References: <001801c39c38$5a4886b0$ae70fe81@jafywinxp> In-Reply-To: <001801c39c38$5a4886b0$ae70fe81@jafywinxp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi again HyunWook, I also read your draft, and have a few comments about it. First, don't take it as an offense, but it is sometimes quite hard to read (I'm not saying mine is easier to read !), especially the part with the locator (section 5.2). I'm sometimes still not sure I understood things as you are expecting people to understand them. So as far as I got it, a node first acquires a global address (or more, one for each gateway ?) valid for GLOBAL_IP_LIFETIME (by the way you don't mention how long that should be). Then if there is no route entry for the (current ?) gateway, the node can use another GW in a MIP manner. Well roughly I understand your proposal, but it's all the details I don't understand well that bother me. My main advice is that you maybe try to rewrite this section and maybe include an example (in a step-by-step way). In fact I have many questions and in the mean time I don't know where to start because I'm not sure I understood the details. So silly questions are : - Each node configures a global address for each gateway ? Or just when it needs a locator ? - The idea to redirect packets arrving at a given gateway through another gateway from which ad hoc node is reachable seems good but I'm not sure whether it is realistic or not. For example, at some point there might be a cascade of such registrations, how do you handle that ? - I'm not sure about the complexity of your proposal if you want to implement it. Can you tell us more about that ? - Your proposal induces packet encapsulations, which is quite hungry in resources (an extra header in all packets). Routing becomes sub-optimal (i.e. triangular). - I think your proposal induces a large number of security issues around locator registrations : Node B registers a locator with a gateway G for address of node C (and gateway of C will forward packets to G that will forward them to B). Is this possible ? I'm sorry I can't give more feedback, mainly because I think I understand your proposal roughly but not deeply. Regards, Christophe HyunWook Cha wrote: > Hello, folks. > > As far as I know, research works have been performed in Internet > connectivity for MANETs continueously until now. > I think that MANET wg members also consider this issue as important one > to be addressed in the working group. > My question is if this issue will be discussed in the 58th IETF meeting > or not. > > Regardless of answer for the above question, I request comments or > advices for the following draft submitted by me. > > Regards, > _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 4 11:11:35 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA20678 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:11:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH3m1-0006Cp-4Y for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 11:11:18 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA4GBH7d023851 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:11:17 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH3m1-0006Cc-0v for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 11:11:17 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA20640 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:11:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH3ly-0007jj-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 11:11:14 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH3lx-0007jg-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 11:11:13 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH3lm-0006BH-F9; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 11:11:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH3lV-0006Ag-Ow for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 11:10:45 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA20593 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:10:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH3lT-0007j2-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 11:10:43 -0500 Received: from concorde.inria.fr ([192.93.2.39]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH3lS-0007iM-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 11:10:42 -0500 Received: from zephyrin (byzantium.inria.fr [128.93.17.6]) by concorde.inria.fr (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id hA4GA2113251; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 17:10:02 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <00b701c3a2ed$ea1501e0$1f175d80@inria.fr> From: "Philippe Jacquet" To: "Dearlove, Chris (UK)" , Cc: References: Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 17:08:40 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [manet] Re: OLSR: RFC 3626 observations. Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, Chris, Below are my tentative comments and answers. Sorry for being late. Best regards, Philippe ----- Original Message ----- From: Dearlove, Chris (UK) To: Cc: ; Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 4:38 PM Subject: OLSR: RFC 3626 observations. > > I have a number of observations regarding OLSR, as > currently defined by RFC 3626. Whether any of them > are ever taken on board depends on future plans for > OLSR and the manet group. (I note that post-RFC work > has already started on AODV.) > > First nit-packing comments on the RFC. > > - There are some erroneous references to the advertised > link set that should be the advertised neighbor set in > sections 9.2 (page 44), 9.3 (page 45), 15 (page 59), > 15.1 (page 60) and 15.2 (page 60) - multiple times in > some cases. > > - In section 9.3 (page 45) it should be a change to the > advertised neighbor set, rather than the MPR selector > set that provokes an additional TC message. (Of course > by default the two are the same, but in general it is > the advertised neighbor set which matters.) > In fact it seems that the connectivity is maintained when the MPR selector set does not change even if the advertized set changes; in this case ANSN is optionnal. If a non MPR link breaks, then there is always a path with MPR links with same length that is available. This should be a way to save some ANSN changes. Do you have a case where it should not work? > Second some specific comments on the protocol. (Note that > these have been informed by having implemented the latest > version of the protocol, as now defined by the RFC.) Note > that any suggested changes are backward compatible (and > could interwork with the current version of the protocol). > > - When considering neighbourhood changes, there is the > case of two nodes each using the same two interfaces. > If the nodes are symmetrically connected using one > interface, and then the second interface link becomes > symmetric, or if symmetrically connected using both > interfaces and then the connection through one interface > becomes asymmetric or lost, this does not count as a > neighbourhood change as defined in Section 8.5 (page 42); > in fact these cases are explicitly excluded there. This is > appropriate for MPR Set recalculation, but not for Routing > Table recalculation, although Section 10 (page 47) does not > make this distinction. To illustrate the problem consider > an example starting with a symmetric link using the first > interface, but not using the second interface, one node > (the first node) will route to either interface of the > other node (the second node) using the first interface. > Now add the parallel link using the second interface. If > this is not regarded as a neighbour appearance then there > will be no Routing Table change, and the Routing Table > will use the slightly odd, but acceptable, route to the > second interface address on the second node via the > first interface. Now break the link using the first > interface. If this is not a neighbourhood loss then again > there will be no Routing Table change - but there is an > invalid entry in the Routing Table. > > This suggests that a modification to sections 8.5 and > section 10 would be appropriate. I agree that we have to recompute the routing table for neighbor nodes, when the interface set to this node changes. Notice that the neighbor set contains the "associated link tuple", and a change in this tuple is actually a change in the neighbor set and should result in a routing table recomputation. Maybe we should write down that any change in any routing database results in a routing table recomputation, although it looks over-redundant;-) > > - Section 10 point 2 (page 48) refers to main address without > specifying where to get it from. The RFC defines main address > in section 5.5 (page 27) and hence that definition should be > used. However in the indicated point this is a 1-hop neighbour, > hence the main address is also available in the associated > Neighbour Tuple. Since the 1-hop link must be established > before a MID message is received and the Interface Association > Set is updated, not using the Neighbour Tuple will result in > an unnecessary delay. Since the procedure in Section 10 is > an example, it is not necessary to change the RFC to use the > Neighbour Set at this point. However there are other circumstances > where this additional information may be used. The protocol could > be modified to add that an entry may be added to the Interface > Association Set whenever a HELLO message's originator address and > source address differ (the former is the main address, the latter > is the interface address). > The main address is mentioned in the originator address field in the header of the HELLO. One should not need to wait for an MID message to get it. > - On receipt of a MID message and update of the Interface > Association Set to add a new entry, one or more interface > addresses which were previously assumed to be main addresses > will no longer be main addresses. There may then be two hop > tuples each containing an interface, rather than a main, address > of a two hop neighbours. This has the drawbacks both of having > entries which are incorrect, and not having entries which are > wanted, and losing the opportunity to "merge" entries. The > absence of any wanted entries lasts until the next appropriate > HELLO message, the unwanted entries last until they expire. > > The protocol could be modified such that if a MID message > is received (may qualify to only consider the case where it > adds a new entry to the Interface Association Set) and if > there are any two hop tuples with neighbour address contained > in the MID message then replace all of these two hop tuples > with a single two hop tuple using the MID message originator > address. The new tuple's expiry time should be the latest of > all the replace tuples expiry times. > Right, it looks more like an implementation issue, maybe better to write it down. > Third some points where protocol behaviour is not ideal, but > changes might not be 100% compatible. > > - In point 2 of section 13 (page 56) and point 2 of section > 14.3 (page 58) the parameter NEIGHB_HOLD_TIME is used to > define new link time(s). However all other entries in the > Link Set use the NEIGHB_HOLD_TIME of the other end of the > link, as reported in the Vtime field of a HELLO message. > It would be more appropriate to save this Vtime value (in > the same way that the Htime field is already saved) and > use that rather than NEIGHB_HOLD_TIME. Note that this > avoids (among other issues) a tuple's expiry time ever > becoming earlier as could otherwise occur. > You have a point, it should be Vtime of HELLO instead of NEIGH_HOLD_TIME. > - The protocol contains features (in section 9.5, page 46) > to handle out of order TC messages. However these features > are imperfect, they rely on the physically first/logically > second TC message adding an entry to the Topology Set > so that the physically second/logically first TC message > may be recognised as such and discarded. However if the > physically first/logically second TC message is empty > then no such entry will be added and the physically > second/logically first TC message will not be discarded. > It will add entries to the Topology Set, which defeats > the object of the empty TC message, at least partially. > > I can see one easy, but ugly, fix. This is that an > empty TC message could add a "dummy" entry to the > Topology Set. This could be one where both T_dest_addr > and T_last_addr are set to the originator address, > and T_seq is set to the ANSN. (T_time would be set as > usual.) The Routing Table update process would have to > be modified to disregard entries with T_last_addr equal > to T_dest_addr. However a cleaner approach would be > better. > Yes in this case, out of order TCs more or less result as if one of the TC were lost. Next TCs should fix the misfit. Remembering the ANSN of the empty TC seems to be a good implementation trick. Maybe one could specify this in a cleaner way. For example to define T-Tuples as (T_last_addr,T_ANSN, T_ANSN_Time,T_dest_tuple) where T_dest_tuple is a set of (T_dest_addr, T_time) and empty sets are permitted. T-ANSN_time is refreshed at each TC reception from the same T_last originator. > This is not just a hypothetical case, we have observed > it in simulation, albeit in circumstances which would > be better removed by another approach. (However removal > of the observed circumstances still leaves the case able > to happen in other ways.) In the observed case an > intermediate node first received a TC message. After > processing it, it decided to forward it. It therefore > scheduled a retransmission at a time delayed by a random > jitter duration. Shortly thereafter (before the > retransmission) it received another TC message, from the > same originating node. It did the same, but scheduling it > before the other message (owing to using a smaller random > number). > > There are at least two possible fixes to prevent this > occurring, but neither is suggested by the RFC > > - Discard the earlier TC message when queuing the > later TC message. (This would be limited to > messages from the same originating node with > earlier ANSN.) This contradicts section 9.4 (page 45) > which mandates use of the standard forwarding algorithm > for TC messages. This is too much implementation oriented.. > > - Ensure that queued messages order is maintained. This > could apply to all messages, all messages from the > same origin, or all messages of the same type from the > same origin. Technically it violates section 3.5 > (page 21) by using a different random delay distribution > than that suggested. If adopted section 3.5 should be > modified to indicate this. > > Fourth an observation, without a specific suggestion here > (although I have considered some specifics I omit here as > the principles are more important). > > - OLSR timing for tuple expiry etc. is now defined using the > Vtime (and for a HELLO message Htime) fields of a message, > i.e. timing is based on the message originator's parameter > settings. In addition to the case noted above, there are > two other cases where timing is not taken from the originator > and where significantly different values of parameters on > different nodes could interact badly. > > - Jitter delay, based on parameter MAXJITTER. Note that it > is possible, as currently defined, for a message to be > delayed by more than the interval between messages. > Ideally use of the message interval would be preferable > to use of the hold time (Vtime) but typically these will > be related. But the interval between hellos should not be greater than the neighb_hold_time. > > - Duplicate hold time. In this case basing hold time on Vtime > would also provide greater extensibility to new message > types that might be significantly more or less frequent. > That is an interesting issue, one may store duplicate ID longer depending on origin. Notice that the duplicate hold time is a compromise on the speed at which a network delivers all the copies of one packet and the time for a node to wrap around packet sequence number. Processing again a packet is not damageable but a packet may bounce several times if duplicate is not detected. > > > > > ******************************************************************** > This email and any attachments are confidential to the intended > recipient and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended > recipient please delete it from your system and notify the sender. > You should not copy it or use it for any purpose nor disclose or > distribute its contents to any other person. > ******************************************************************** _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 4 11:44:34 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA21989 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:44:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH4Hv-0008PA-LH for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 11:44:16 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA4GiFkm032307 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:44:15 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH4Hv-0008P0-Gf for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 11:44:15 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA21927 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:44:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH4Hu-0000Ry-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 11:44:14 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH4Ht-0000Ru-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 11:44:13 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH4Hi-0008IR-BH; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 11:44:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH4HW-0008HU-Cu for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 11:43:50 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA21917 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:43:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH4HV-0000Rf-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 11:43:49 -0500 Received: from smtp1.bae.co.uk ([20.138.254.61]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH4HU-0000Qw-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 11:43:48 -0500 Received: from ngbaux (ngbaux.msd.bae.co.uk [141.245.68.234]) by smtp1.bae.co.uk (Switch-2.2.8/Switch-2.2.8) with ESMTP id hA4Gh8F07845 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 16:43:08 GMT Received: from bsrsmtp02.ng.bae.co.uk ([141.245.68.242]) by ngbaux.net.bae.co.uk (PMDF V5.2-33 #44998) with SMTP id <0HNU00FD56EA9O@ngbaux.net.bae.co.uk> for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 16:42:11 +0000 (GMT) Received: from glkms0002.GREENLNK.NET ([10.15.184.2]) by 141.245.68.242 with InterScan Messaging Security Suite for SMTP; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 16:42:51 +0000 Received: from glkms0008.GREENLNK.NET ([10.15.184.8]) by glkms0002.GREENLNK.NET with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5329); Tue, 04 Nov 2003 16:42:54 +0000 Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 16:42:53 +0000 From: "Dearlove, Chris (UK)" To: Philippe Jacquet , manet@ietf.org Cc: T.Clausen@computer.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6375.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Thread-Topic: OLSR: RFC 3626 observations. Thread-Index: AcOi7iOKowln7yhaQvGF1JkQqRjuBwAAIwhA content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Nov 2003 16:42:54.0240 (UTC) FILETIME=[B1A0DA00:01C3A2F2] Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [manet] RE: OLSR: RFC 3626 observations. Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks for the comments. I've snipped everything where, judging from reply, I think I've made my point (whether regarded as significant or not). > In fact it seems that the connectivity is maintained when the=20 > MPR selector set does not > change even if the advertized set changes; in this case ANSN=20 > is optionnal. If a non MPR link breaks, > then there is always a path with MPR links with same length that is > available. This should be a way to > save some ANSN changes. Do you have a case where it should not work? No, so perhaps it's not necessary. On the other hand it can lead to some inefficiencies where the MPR selector set changes but (when using a non-default TC redundancy) the advertised neighbour set does not change. In this case you don't want to send a new TC even though the MPR selector set has changed. Perhaps therefore you could send only if both the MPRSS and the ANS change (i.e. only if necessary, and not when pointless). However sending simply when the ANS has changed seems easiest, and maintains a constant redundancy level. > > - Section 10 point 2 (page 48) refers to main address without > > specifying where to get it from. The RFC defines main address > > in section 5.5 (page 27) and hence that definition should be > > used. However in the indicated point this is a 1-hop neighbour, > > hence the main address is also available in the associated > > Neighbour Tuple. Since the 1-hop link must be established > > before a MID message is received and the Interface Association > > Set is updated, not using the Neighbour Tuple will result in > > an unnecessary delay. Since the procedure in Section 10 is > > an example, it is not necessary to change the RFC to use the > > Neighbour Set at this point. However there are other circumstances > > where this additional information may be used. The protocol could > > be modified to add that an entry may be added to the Interface > > Association Set whenever a HELLO message's originator address and > > source address differ (the former is the main address, the latter > > is the interface address). >=20 > The main address is mentioned in the originator address field=20 > in the header of the HELLO. One should not need > to wait for an MID message to get it. I agree, in fact that's my point. However my reading of the RFC suggests this is not strictly as it specifies. Have I missed anything (other than that, as I note, in this particular section the algorithm is only a suggestion and the implementer is free to make the change, as in fact I have)? > > Fourth an observation, without a specific suggestion here > > (although I have considered some specifics I omit here as > > the principles are more important). > > > > - OLSR timing for tuple expiry etc. is now defined using the > > Vtime (and for a HELLO message Htime) fields of a message, > > i.e. timing is based on the message originator's parameter > > settings. In addition to the case noted above, there are > > two other cases where timing is not taken from the originator > > and where significantly different values of parameters on > > different nodes could interact badly. > > > > - Jitter delay, based on parameter MAXJITTER. Note that it > > is possible, as currently defined, for a message to be > > delayed by more than the interval between messages. > > Ideally use of the message interval would be preferable > > to use of the hold time (Vtime) but typically these will > > be related. >=20 > But the interval between hellos should not be greater than the > neighb_hold_time. I'll switch to TCs as they are forwarded. I think it's possible to have Node A runs default OLSR parameters, in particular HELLO_INTERVAL is 2, TC_INTERVAL is 5, TOP_HOLD_TIME is 15 and MAXJITTER is 0.5. Now node B is overclocked by a factor of 10. (Yes, that's rather extreme, although not absolutely inconceivable.) Then TC_INTERVAL will be 0.5 and when a node B TC message is forwarded by node A it is completely randomised. With transmission jitter (or a factor greater than 10) node B's TC messages could actually be reordered. Instead suppose a message were jittered by a multiple of Vtime, then if all OLSR parameters on a node are kept in default ratio then that multiple could be 1/30 (by default). Of course there's no guarantee that OLSR parameters are kept in step, but that's another matter. This is most interesting if adding some extension to OLSR (a message other than HELLO, TC, MID and HNA) which may be badly treated by a fixed jitter. (If the new message has no use for Vtime this gives it one.) > > - Duplicate hold time. In this case basing hold time on Vtime > > would also provide greater extensibility to new message > > types that might be significantly more or less frequent. > > > That is an interesting issue, one may store duplicate ID=20 > longer depending on origin. > Notice that the duplicate hold time is a compromise on the=20 > speed at which a network > delivers all the copies of one packet and the time for a node=20 > to wrap around packet > sequence number. Processing again a packet is not damageable=20 > but a packet may > bounce several times if duplicate is not detected. I didn't comment on wrap-around (assuming that 16 bits was fixed) but I did think about it. I was concerned with possible fast messages (whether from a fast node or a new message type) and how with fixed DUP_HOLD_TIME the Duplicate Table could get over-full. ******************************************************************** This email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient please delete it from your system and notify the sender. You should not copy it or use it for any purpose nor disclose or distribute its contents to any other person. ******************************************************************** _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 4 12:36:28 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA24519 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 12:36:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH56A-0004p1-Ld for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 12:36:10 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA4HaAT6018529 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 12:36:10 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH56A-0004om-Gm for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 12:36:10 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA24495 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 12:35:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH568-0001Rz-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 12:36:08 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH568-0001Rw-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 12:36:08 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH563-0004nj-8T; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 12:36:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH55U-0004mt-1w for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 12:35:28 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA24474 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 12:35:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH55S-0001RN-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 12:35:26 -0500 Received: from web21210.mail.yahoo.com ([216.136.175.253]) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH55L-0001RJ-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 12:35:25 -0500 Message-ID: <20031104173515.35296.qmail@web21210.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [158.94.254.20] by web21210.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 09:35:15 PST Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 09:35:15 -0800 (PST) From: vishak sivakumar To: manet@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [manet] is ns-2 the only simulator with which MANETs can be simulated?? Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , hi everybody, i just want to know is that whether the NS-2 the only network simulator that is available for simualting MANETs. is that anything that it cannot be done using any other network simulators. have anybody tried this using any other simualtor or if so anybody has done this using ns-2 please do tell me how to proceed this such that it can be simulated in a WINDOWS platform. i would be really grateful if anybody could help me out and my advance thnaks for them regards, vishak srinivasan ===== __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 4 14:37:31 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA00063 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 14:37:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH6zH-0007Wz-75 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 14:37:11 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA4JbAVi028941 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 14:37:10 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH6zF-0007Wi-V8 for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 14:37:09 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA00038 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 14:36:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH6zD-0003c7-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 14:37:07 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH6zC-0003c4-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 14:37:06 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH6z7-0007SS-Lx; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 14:37:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH6yA-0007PN-AY for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 14:36:02 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA29988 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 14:35:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH6y7-0003an-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 14:35:59 -0500 Received: from xenia.media.mit.edu ([18.85.3.135]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH6y6-0003ac-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 14:35:58 -0500 Received: from Neon (hotwire-21-86-ind.hotwireindia.com [210.7.86.21] (may be forged)) by xenia.media.mit.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10/XENIA) with ESMTP id hA4JZgnA066779; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 14:35:48 -0500 (EST) From: "Ankur Jain" To: "'vishak sivakumar'" , Subject: RE: [manet] is ns-2 the only simulator with which MANETs can be simulated?? Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 01:05:05 +0700 Message-ID: <000101c3a2fe$33bbe290$155607d2@Neon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 In-Reply-To: <20031104173515.35296.qmail@web21210.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Vishak, There are 2-3 other simulators for simulating Manets and ns2 is the most famous one among these. Other good simulators are QualNet and OPNET. Both of them are commercial software. However, a 14 day trial version of QualNet is available. You may want to download that and check it yourself. These software can run on Windows platform. Well, there are many things that can't be done through simulators - you can't simulate the wireless environment with 100% accuracy. There will definitely be an error - how small it may be. Hope it helps. Regards, Ankur | -----Original Message----- | From: manet-admin@ietf.org [mailto:manet-admin@ietf.org] On Behalf Of | vishak sivakumar | Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 12:35 AM | To: manet@ietf.org | Subject: [manet] is ns-2 the only simulator with which MANETs can be | simulated?? | | hi everybody, | | i just want to know is that whether the NS-2 the only | network simulator that is available for simualting | MANETs. is that anything that it cannot be done using | any other network simulators. have anybody tried this | using any other simualtor or if so anybody has done | this using ns-2 please do tell me how to proceed this | such that it can be simulated in a WINDOWS platform. | | i would be really grateful if anybody could help me | out and my advance thnaks for them | | regards, | vishak srinivasan | | ===== | | | __________________________________ | Do you Yahoo!? | Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard | http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree | | _______________________________________________ | manet mailing list | manet@ietf.org | https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 4 15:35:32 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA04271 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 15:35:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH7tO-00032Y-UZ for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 15:35:13 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA4KZAuw011682 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 15:35:10 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH7tO-00032L-Qq for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 15:35:10 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA04229 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 15:34:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH7tN-0004lQ-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 15:35:09 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH7tM-0004lN-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 15:35:08 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH7tG-000300-GI; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 15:35:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH7sK-0002i1-6l for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 15:34:04 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA04196 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 15:33:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH7sI-0004kl-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 15:34:02 -0500 Received: from nn6.excitenetwork.com ([207.159.120.60] helo=xmxpita.excite.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH7sI-0004k9-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 15:34:02 -0500 Received: by xmxpita.excite.com (Postfix, from userid 110) id B1B821E443; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 15:33:28 -0500 (EST) To: ankur.j@media.mit.edu Subject: RE: [manet] is ns-2 the only simulator with which MANETs can be simulated?? Received: from [204.198.72.206] by xprdmailfe25.nwk.excite.com via HTTP; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 15:33:28 EST X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: ID = 89659a7ff4ddd332408b0a759a1a101b Reply-To: jw2000@excite.com From: "Jack Wang" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: jw2000@excite.com X-Mailer: PHP Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: manet@ietf.org Message-Id: <20031104203328.B1B821E443@xmxpita.excite.com> Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 15:33:28 -0500 (EST) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Ankur: Is Qualnet better than Glomosim? Jack --- On Tue 11/04, Ankur Jain < ankur.j@media.mit.edu > wrote: From: Ankur Jain [mailto: ankur.j@media.mit.edu] To: vishak_001@yahoo.com, manet@ietf.org Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 01:05:05 +0700 Subject: RE: [manet] is ns-2 the only simulator with which MANETs can be simulated?? Hi Vishak,

There are 2-3 other simulators for simulating Manets and ns2 is the most
famous one among these.

Other good simulators are QualNet and OPNET. Both of them are commercial
software. However, a 14 day trial version of QualNet is available. You
may want to download that and check it yourself. These software can run
on Windows platform.

Well, there are many things that can't be done through simulators - you
can't simulate the wireless environment with 100% accuracy. There will
definitely be an error - how small it may be.

Hope it helps.

Regards,
Ankur



| -----Original Message-----
| From: manet-admin@ietf.org [mailto:manet-admin@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
| vishak sivakumar
| Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 12:35 AM
| To: manet@ietf.org
| Subject: [manet] is ns-2 the only simulator with which MANETs can be
| simulated??
|
| hi everybody,
|
| i just want to know is that! whether the NS-2 the only
| network simulator that is available for simualting
| MANETs. is that anything that it cannot be done using
| any other network simulators. have anybody tried this
| using any other simualtor or if so anybody has done
| this using ns-2 please do tell me how to proceed this
| such that it can be simulated in a WINDOWS platform.
|
| i would be really grateful if anybody could help me
| out and my advance thnaks for them
|
| regards,
| vishak srinivasan
|
| =====
|
|
| __________________________________
| Do you Yahoo!?
| Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard
| http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree
|
| _______________________________________________
| manet mailing list
| manet@ietf.org
| https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet


_______________________________________________
manet mailing list
manet@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/! mailman/listinfo/manet
_______________________________________________ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 4 20:16:41 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA14676 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 20:16:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHCHW-00058A-IZ for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 20:16:23 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA51GMuJ019719 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 20:16:22 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHCHW-00057y-Bk for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 20:16:22 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA14665 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 20:16:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHCHU-00012Y-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 20:16:20 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHCHT-00012V-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 20:16:19 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHCHB-00053j-V7; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 20:16:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHCGY-000531-BU for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 20:15:22 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA14624 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 20:15:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHCGW-00011S-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 20:15:20 -0500 Received: from law12-oe51.law12.hotmail.com ([64.4.18.40] helo=hotmail.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHCGV-0000zI-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 20:15:19 -0500 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 17:14:50 -0800 Received: from 203.120.68.68 by law12-oe51.law12.hotmail.com with DAV; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 01:14:49 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [203.120.68.68] X-Originating-Email: [hoang_sg74@hotmail.com] From: "Hoang SG" To: "Ankur Jain" , "'vishak sivakumar'" , References: <000101c3a2fe$33bbe290$155607d2@Neon> Subject: Re: [manet] is ns-2 the only simulator with which MANETs can be simulated?? Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 09:13:25 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Nov 2003 01:14:50.0034 (UTC) FILETIME=[35AB1120:01C3A33A] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Ankur Jain, NS2 could run on windows platform if you use cygwin. Please go to NS2 homepage for more details. I currently run NS2 on windows 2000 using cygwin and found everything is OK. Hope it help, Hoang ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ankur Jain" To: "'vishak sivakumar'" ; Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 2:05 AM Subject: RE: [manet] is ns-2 the only simulator with which MANETs can be simulated?? > Hi Vishak, > > There are 2-3 other simulators for simulating Manets and ns2 is the most > famous one among these. > > Other good simulators are QualNet and OPNET. Both of them are commercial > software. However, a 14 day trial version of QualNet is available. You > may want to download that and check it yourself. These software can run > on Windows platform. > > Well, there are many things that can't be done through simulators - you > can't simulate the wireless environment with 100% accuracy. There will > definitely be an error - how small it may be. > > Hope it helps. > > Regards, > Ankur > > > > | -----Original Message----- > | From: manet-admin@ietf.org [mailto:manet-admin@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > | vishak sivakumar > | Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 12:35 AM > | To: manet@ietf.org > | Subject: [manet] is ns-2 the only simulator with which MANETs can be > | simulated?? > | > | hi everybody, > | > | i just want to know is that whether the NS-2 the only > | network simulator that is available for simualting > | MANETs. is that anything that it cannot be done using > | any other network simulators. have anybody tried this > | using any other simualtor or if so anybody has done > | this using ns-2 please do tell me how to proceed this > | such that it can be simulated in a WINDOWS platform. > | > | i would be really grateful if anybody could help me > | out and my advance thnaks for them > | > | regards, > | vishak srinivasan > | > | ===== > | > | > | __________________________________ > | Do you Yahoo!? > | Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard > | http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree > | > | _______________________________________________ > | manet mailing list > | manet@ietf.org > | https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet > > > _______________________________________________ > manet mailing list > manet@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet > _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 4 21:32:35 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA17011 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 21:32:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHDSz-0001n7-Bm for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 21:32:18 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA52WHBN006879 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 21:32:17 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHDSz-0001ms-8G for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 21:32:17 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA16982 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 21:32:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHDSw-00022l-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 21:32:14 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHDSv-00022i-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 21:32:13 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHDSj-0001kD-CC; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 21:32:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHDS1-0001je-6m for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 21:31:17 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA16939 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 21:31:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHDRy-00021y-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 21:31:14 -0500 Received: from nn5.excitenetwork.com ([207.159.120.59] helo=xmxpita.excite.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHDRx-00021p-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 21:31:14 -0500 Received: by xmxpita.excite.com (Postfix, from userid 110) id 37CAA1E44C; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 21:30:33 -0500 (EST) To: ezhoon@sait.samsung.co.kr Subject: Re: [manet] is ns-2 the only simulator with which MANETs can be simulated?? Received: from [158.253.232.128] by xprdmailfe24.nwk.excite.com via HTTP; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 21:30:33 EST X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: ID = d7a3de9db4844228d9b4a6123ab0fc3a Reply-To: jw2000@excite.com From: "Jack Wang" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: jw2000@excite.com X-Mailer: PHP Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Robert.Welsh@GDC4S.Com, manet@ietf.org Message-Id: <20031105023033.37CAA1E44C@xmxpita.excite.com> Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 21:30:33 -0500 (EST) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks. Besides interface, all other parts of Qualnet are the same to Glomosim? It seems that Glomosim has not been updated for a long time. Jack --- On Tue 11/04, Jihoon Lee < ezhoon@sait.samsung.co.kr > wrote: From: Jihoon Lee [mailto: ezhoon@sait.samsung.co.kr] To: jw2000@excite.com Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 10:41:27 +0900 Subject: Re: [manet] is ns-2 the only simulator with which MANETs can be simulated?? Hi. Jack

As you know, Qualnet is a commercial software of Glomosim.

As far as I know, Qualnet has the better user interface than that of
Glomosim.

Bye.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jack Wang"
To:
Cc:
Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 5:33 AM
Subject: RE: [manet] is ns-2 the only simulator with which MANETs can be
simulated??


>
>
> Hi Ankur:
>
> Is Qualnet better than Glomosim?
>
> Jack
>
>
>
> --- On Tue 11/04, Ankur Jain < ankur.j@media.mit.edu > wrote:
> From: Ankur Jain [mailto: ankur.j@media.mit.edu]
> To: vishak_001@yahoo.com, manet@ietf.org
> Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 01:05:05 +0700
> Subject: RE: [manet] is ns-2 the only simulator with which MANETs can be
simulated??
>
> Hi Vishak,

There are 2-3 other simulators for simulating Manets and
ns2 is the most
famous one among these.
!
Other good simulators are
QualNet and OPNET. Both of them are commercial
software. However, a 14
day trial version of QualNet is available. You
may want to download that
and check it yourself. These software can run
on Windows
platform.

Well, there are many things that can't be done through
simulators - you
can't simulate the wireless environment with 100%
accuracy. There will
definitely be an error - how small it may be.


Hope it
helps.

Regards,
Ankur



| -----Original
Message-----
| From: manet-admin@ietf.org [mailto:manet-admin@ietf.org]
On Behalf Of
| vishak sivakumar
| Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003
12:35 AM
| To: manet@ietf.org
| Subject: [manet] is ns-2 the only
simulator with which MANETs can be
| simulated??
|
| hi
everybody,
|
| i just want to know is that!
> whether the NS-2 the only
| network simulator that is available forsimualting
| MANETs. is that anything that it cannot be done usin g
|
any other network simulators. have anybody tried this
| using any other
simualtor or if so anybody has done
| this using ns-2 please do tell me
how to proceed this
| such that it can be simulated in a WINDOWS
platform.
|
| i would be really grateful if anybody could help
me
| out and my advance thnaks for them
|
| regards,
| vishak
srinivasan
|
| =====
|
|
|
__________________________________
| Do you Yahoo!?
| Protect your
identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard
|
http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree
|
|
_______________________________________________
| manet mailing list
|
manet@ietf.org
|
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet


_______________________________________________
manet
mailing list
manet@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/!
> mailman/listinfo/manet

>
> _______________________________________________
> Join! Excite! - http://www.excite.com
> The most personalized portal on the Web!
>
> _______________________________________________
> manet mailing list
> manet@ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet
>


_______________________________________________ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 4 21:36:34 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA17282 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 21:36:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHDWo-0002xP-GT for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 21:36:17 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA52aEsh011361 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 21:36:14 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHDWo-0002xA-BI for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 21:36:14 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA17244 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 21:36:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHDWl-00027s-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 21:36:11 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHDWl-00027p-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 21:36:11 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHDWd-0002mp-88; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 21:36:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHDWX-0002lQ-4E for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 21:35:57 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA17217 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 21:35:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHDWU-00026v-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 21:35:54 -0500 Received: from mail11.ntu.edu.sg ([155.69.5.163]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHDWT-000260-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 21:35:53 -0500 Received: from mail01.student.main.ntu.edu.sg ([155.69.5.165]) by mail11.ntu.edu.sg with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5576); Wed, 5 Nov 2003 10:33:32 +0800 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.6944.0 Subject: RE: [manet] is ns-2 the only simulator with which MANETs can be simulated?? Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 10:33:31 +0800 Message-ID: <34C4FA35021357469685D8102806A1C06F8113@mail01.student.main.ntu.edu.sg> Thread-Topic: [manet] is ns-2 the only simulator with which MANETs can be simulated?? Thread-Index: AcOjPDbGy1xZmsr3T/C46tJAcq9HUQABpieA From: "#ZHOU ZHI#" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Nov 2003 02:33:32.0735 (UTC) FILETIME=[349E0CF0:01C3A345] Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable but from my experience, running ns-2 simulation on windows is much = slower than in linux or unix with same hardware configuration. People = who are expecting to use ns-2 frequently for a long time are suggested = to do it on linux since everything will go smooth and fast! It worths = spending time learning, I believe. =20 < spamcontrol > -----Original Message----- From: manet-admin@ietf.org [mailto:manet-admin@ietf.org] On Behalf Of = Hoang SG Sent: 2003=C4=EA11=D4=C25=C8=D5 9:13 To: Ankur Jain; 'vishak sivakumar'; manet@ietf.org Subject: Re: [manet] is ns-2 the only simulator with which MANETs can be = simulated?? Hi Ankur Jain, NS2 could run on windows platform if you use cygwin. Please go to NS2 = homepage for more details. I currently run NS2 on windows 2000 using = cygwin and found everything is OK. Hope it help, Hoang ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ankur Jain" To: "'vishak sivakumar'" ; Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 2:05 AM Subject: RE: [manet] is ns-2 the only simulator with which MANETs can be = simulated?? > Hi Vishak, > > There are 2-3 other simulators for simulating Manets and ns2 is the = most > famous one among these. > > Other good simulators are QualNet and OPNET. Both of them are = commercial > software. However, a 14 day trial version of QualNet is available. You > may want to download that and check it yourself. These software can = run > on Windows platform. > > Well, there are many things that can't be done through simulators - = you > can't simulate the wireless environment with 100% accuracy. There will > definitely be an error - how small it may be. > > Hope it helps. > > Regards, > Ankur > > > > | -----Original Message----- > | From: manet-admin@ietf.org [mailto:manet-admin@ietf.org] On Behalf = Of > | vishak sivakumar > | Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 12:35 AM > | To: manet@ietf.org > | Subject: [manet] is ns-2 the only simulator with which MANETs can be > | simulated?? > | > | hi everybody, > | > | i just want to know is that whether the NS-2 the only > | network simulator that is available for simualting > | MANETs. is that anything that it cannot be done using > | any other network simulators. have anybody tried this > | using any other simualtor or if so anybody has done > | this using ns-2 please do tell me how to proceed this > | such that it can be simulated in a WINDOWS platform. > | > | i would be really grateful if anybody could help me > | out and my advance thnaks for them > | > | regards, > | vishak srinivasan > | > | =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > | > | > | __________________________________ > | Do you Yahoo!? > | Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard > | http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree > | > | _______________________________________________ > | manet mailing list > | manet@ietf.org > | https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet > > > _______________________________________________ > manet mailing list > manet@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet > _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Nov 5 03:25:35 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA25539 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 03:25:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHIya-0007oD-M5 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 03:25:16 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA58PGht030016 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 03:25:16 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHIya-0007o3-Bj for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 03:25:16 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA25516 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 03:25:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHIyX-0006mo-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 03:25:13 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHIyX-0006ml-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 03:25:13 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHIyN-0007mP-HW; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 03:25:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHIxS-0007l5-Rz for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 03:24:06 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA25484 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 03:23:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHIxQ-0006ln-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 03:24:04 -0500 Received: from [202.108.35.248] (helo=sina.com) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHIxP-0006lY-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 03:24:04 -0500 Received: (qmail 13627 invoked by uid 99); 5 Nov 2003 08:23:56 -0000 Message-ID: <20031105082356.13626.qmail@sina.com> Received: from hejue2980(61.187.64.197) by webserver with HTTP; From: hejue2980 To: manet@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 16:23:55 +0800 X-Mailer: SinaMail 3.0Beta (FireToad) X-Priority: 3 Subject: [manet] (no subject) Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , hejue2980@sina.com ______________________________________ =================================================================== _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Nov 5 03:59:35 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA26619 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 03:59:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHJVR-0001gD-7G for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 03:59:16 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA58xDK8006451 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 03:59:13 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHJVQ-0001fy-Pe for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 03:59:12 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA26588 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 03:59:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHJVO-0007Kz-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 03:59:10 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHJVN-0007Kw-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 03:59:09 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHJVF-0001YB-MF; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 03:59:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHJUI-0001Td-Hc for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 03:58:02 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA26527 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 03:57:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHJUF-0007K7-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 03:57:59 -0500 Received: from vsmtp4.tin.it ([212.216.176.224]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHJUF-0007Js-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 03:57:59 -0500 Received: from dell (146.48.99.66) by vsmtp4.tin.it (7.0.019) (authenticated as spagoni) id 3F8C844B00B9B061; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 09:57:27 +0100 Message-ID: <002d01c3a37a$e878bbf0$5dc68ac0@dell> From: "Carlo Spagoni" To: Cc: "Henrik Lundgren" References: <00cb01c39fd5$54861670$5dc68ac0@dell> Subject: Re: [manet] [DSR] problem with click DSR Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 09:57:53 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Henrik Lundgren wrote: > On Fri, 31 Oct 2003, Carlo Spagoni wrote: > >> "eth1: ERROR-110 Writing Tx descriptor to BAP" and i must restart. >> > This is an error reported by the firmware but is triggered by the > driver. If I remember correctly BAP stands for Buffer Access Path > and has something to do with shuffling data in and out of the > card's memory. Try upgrading to the latest driver (some of the > "BAP-errors" should have been solved in later versions). > > cheers, > Henrik > ...thanks a lot Henrik....i donwloaded the last driver orinoco and now it's ok....(speriamo bene) regards Carlo _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Nov 5 05:07:31 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA29001 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 05:07:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHKZD-0006fD-RS for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 05:07:13 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA5A7BDT025612 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 05:07:11 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHKZD-0006eQ-6B for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 05:07:11 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA28978 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 05:06:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHKZ9-0000dV-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 05:07:07 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHKZ9-0000dS-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 05:07:07 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHKZ4-0006XX-AU; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 05:07:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHKY4-0006Uz-7J for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 05:06:00 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA28956 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 05:05:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHKY0-0000co-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 05:05:56 -0500 Received: from [199.181.134.41] (helo=wmailmta04of.seamail.go.com) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHKY0-0000cO-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 05:05:56 -0500 Received: (qmail 3542 invoked from network); 5 Nov 2003 10:05:27 -0000 Received: from jtp05.seamail.go.com (HELO gomailjtp05) (10.192.72.224) by wmailmta04o.seamail.go.com with SMTP; 5 Nov 2003 10:05:27 -0000 Message-ID: <8167304.1068026726309.JavaMail.moez_gadri@gomailjtp05> Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 02:05:26 -0800 (PST) From: moez gadri To: manet@ietf.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: GoMail 3.0.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [manet] Mobile agents Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi every body, I'm interrested to using mobile agents to improve routing mecanisms for MANETs. for exemple we can use them to minimise the time latency due to route recovery in reactive protocols. can agents improve any other drowback, for example ameliore the scalability to mobility, ... if anyone have an idea in this subject, please send it to me. best regards . ___________________________________________________ Check-out GO.com GO get your free GO E-Mail account with expanded storage of 6 MB! http://mail.go.com _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Nov 5 06:26:36 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA00974 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 06:26:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHLnm-0001ka-58 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 06:26:20 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA5BQIZ3006722 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 06:26:18 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHLnm-0001kL-15 for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 06:26:18 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA00962 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 06:26:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHLnh-0001ZS-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 06:26:13 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHLnh-0001ZP-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 06:26:13 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHLnW-0001j6-Cw; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 06:26:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHLmd-0001hD-Eq for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 06:25:08 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA00942 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 06:24:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHLmZ-0001YU-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 06:25:03 -0500 Received: from reserv2.univ-lille1.fr ([193.49.225.90] ident=root) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHLmY-0001YL-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 06:25:02 -0500 Received: from malonne.lifl.fr (malonne.lifl.fr [134.206.10.29]) by reserv2.univ-lille1.fr (8.12.9/jtpda-5.3.1) with ESMTP id hA5BMpQd012311 ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 12:22:51 +0100 Received: from kriek (kriek.lifl.fr [134.206.11.16]) by malonne.lifl.fr with ESMTP id hA5BM6923629 ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 12:22:11 +0100 (MET) From: "David Simplot" To: , Cc: , , , Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 12:22:18 +0100 Organization: IRCICA/LIFL, Univ. Lille 1 Message-ID: <002f01c3a38f$24836eb0$100bce86@kriek> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-MailScanner: Found to be clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [manet] Last CFP IEEE Network Magazine special issue on 'Ad hoc Networking: Data Communications & Topology Control' Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Please accept our apologies in case you receive this information from multiple sources. ================================================================== *LAST* Call for Papers IEEE Network Magazine Special Issue on 'AD HOC NETWORKING: DATA COMMUNICATIONS & TOPOLOGY CONTROL' http://www.lifl.fr/RD2P/download/net-adhoc-cfp-final.pdf IEEE Network seeks articles for a special issue on Ad Hoc Networking: Data Communications and Topology Control, to appear in July 2004. The guest editors for this special issue are David Simplot-Ryl, University of Lille, France, and Ivan Stojmenovic, University of Ottawa, Canada. Purpose Wireless networks and mobile computing research has until recently concentrated on single-hop networks (network nodes communicating directly to a fixed infrastructure), such as cellular and satellite systems. Ad hoc networking covers multi-hop scenarios (network nodes communicating via other network nodes) such as conference, hospital, battlefield, rescue, and monitoring scenarios. Particular ad hoc network systems include packet radio networks, sensor networks, personal communication systems, rooftop networks, and wireless local area networks. Even multi-hop cellular networks may be a viable option when a huge number of cellular phones are concentrated on a small area such as stadium. This special issue will cover comprehensively the network layer in ad hoc networks, which deals with data communication and topology control problems. Data communication problems include routing, broadcasting, multicasting, geocasting, clustering, area monitoring, data and service access. Topology control problems include neighbor discovery, topology construction and maintenance, activity scheduling, position discovery, partition detection, location updates, and network management. The new approaches to ad hoc networks design emphasize cross-layering approach, and therefore the relevant issues arising from network layer problems will also be covered, such as power management, security, quality of service, performance evaluation, data link and transport layers. The goal of the special issue is to publish original research and review articles which should be comprehensive to all readers, regardless of their specialty. Manuscript submission Send papers as PDF file to both co-guest editors simplot@lifl.fr and ivan@site.uottawa.ca. It is recommended that submissions be limited to 4500 words, with the number of references limited to 10. Guidelines for authors can be found on the IEEE Network magazine Website at http://www.comsoc.org/pubs/net/ntwrk/authors.html . Important dates Manuscript Submission: November 30, 2003 Acceptance Notification: February 29, 2004 Final Manuscript Due: May 1, 2004 Publication: July/August 2004 Guest co-editors Dr. David Simplot-Ryl IRCICA/LIFL, Univ. Lille 1, France David.Simplot@lifl.fr Dr. Ivan Stojmenovic SITE, University of Ottawa, Canada ivan@site.uottawa.ca _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Nov 5 06:49:35 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA01710 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 06:49:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHMA2-0003Cf-2u for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 06:49:19 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA5BnI2c012307 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 06:49:18 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHMA1-0003CQ-VH for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 06:49:17 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA01676 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 06:49:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHM9x-0001vU-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 06:49:13 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHM9x-0001vR-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 06:49:13 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHM9m-00035A-0K; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 06:49:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHM9W-00034L-5P for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 06:48:46 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA01668 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 06:48:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHM9R-0001ud-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 06:48:41 -0500 Received: from evaki.its.uow.edu.au ([130.130.68.32]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHM9Q-0001uT-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 06:48:41 -0500 Received: from evaki (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by evaki.its.uow.edu.au (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA5BldLW017103; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 22:47:39 +1100 (EST) Received: from chac.its.uow.edu.au ([130.130.37.3]) by evaki.its.uow.edu.au (MailMonitor for SMTP v1.2.2 ) ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 22:47:39 +1100 (EST) Received: (from sendmail@localhost) by chac.its.uow.edu.au (8.12.9/8.12.9) id hA5BldL5004874; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 22:47:39 +1100 (EST) Received: from hades.snrc.uow.edu.au (hades.snrc.uow.edu.au[130.130.10.100]) by chac.its.uow.edu.au (UWSMTPD 1.5.2) with ESMTP id 2679637.4845; Wednesday, 05 November 2003 22:47:33 +1100 Received: from hades (IDENT:0@hades.snrc.uow.edu.au [130.130.10.100]) by hades.snrc.uow.edu.au (8.12.10/8.12.4) with ESMTP id hA5BlUWh006959; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 22:47:32 +1100 Received: from neo.snrc.uow.edu.au ([130.130.10.106]) by hades.snrc.uow.edu.au (MailMonitor for SMTP v1.2.2 ) ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 22:47:30 +1100 (EST) From: Justin Lipman Reply-To: justin@titr.uow.edu.au Organization: TITR To: moez gadri , manet@ietf.org Subject: Re: [manet] Mobile agents Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 22:47:25 +1100 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.3 References: <8167304.1068026726309.JavaMail.moez_gadri@gomailjtp05> In-Reply-To: <8167304.1068026726309.JavaMail.moez_gadri@gomailjtp05> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200311052247.25549.justin@titr.uow.edu.au> X-MessageID: 2679637.4845 X-EnvelopeFrom: 2679637.4845 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Moez, Ive always liked the idea of combining intelligent/mobile agents to ad hoc networks, but I think its possibly a little heavy weight... You can go and look at work that Nelson Minar @ MIT media lab. http://xenia.media.mit.edu/~nelson/research/routes/ More recent work can be found in the paper by: Nikos Migas, William J. Buchanan, Kevin A. Mc Aartney Mobile Agents for Routing, Topology Discovery, and Automatic Network Reconfiguration in Ad-Hoc Networks http://www.buchananweb.co.uk/wjbuchanan.pdf Hope that helps. Justin -- PhD Candidate Telecommunications & Information Technology Research Institute School of Computer, Electrical & Telecommunications Engineering University of Wollongong, Australia http://www.titr.uow.edu.au/~justin On Wed, 5 Nov 2003 09:05 pm, moez gadri wrote: > Hi every body, > > I'm interrested to using mobile agents to improve routing mecanisms for > MANETs. for exemple we can use them to minimise the time latency due to > route recovery in reactive protocols. can agents improve any other > drowback, for example ameliore the scalability to mobility, ... > > if anyone have an idea in this subject, please send it to me. > > best regards . > > ___________________________________________________ > Check-out GO.com > GO get your free GO E-Mail account with expanded storage of 6 MB! > http://mail.go.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > manet mailing list > manet@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Nov 5 07:52:47 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA03674 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 07:52:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHN91-0006Ss-JT for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 07:52:29 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA5CqJ2i024844 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 07:52:19 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHN91-0006Sd-Es for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 07:52:19 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA03634 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 07:52:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHN90-0003Mh-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 07:52:18 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHN90-0003Me-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 07:52:18 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHN8j-0006Lq-Ln; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 07:52:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHN88-0006L6-MW for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 07:51:24 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA03588 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 07:51:13 -0500 (EST) From: jjinfo@nudt.edu.cn Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHN87-0003La-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 07:51:23 -0500 Received: from [61.187.56.12] (helo=ds20.nudt.edu.cn) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHN87-0003LA-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 07:51:23 -0500 Received: by ds20.nudt.edu.cn (Postfix, from userid 506) id BAEFA5A9D7; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 20:57:56 +0800 (HKT) To: manet@ietf.org Reply-To: jjinfo@nudt.edu.cn MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: YH WebMail Program Version 1.5 X-Originating-IP: 172.26.20.200 Message-Id: <20031105125756.BAEFA5A9D7@ds20.nudt.edu.cn> Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 20:57:56 +0800 (HKT) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [manet] =?gb2312?B?UGhEIHJlc2VhcmNoIG9uIHJvdXRpbmcgc2VjdXJpdHk=?= Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi,folks My Phd research focus on routing security problem in MANET.There are lots of related papers in many conferences. I wana to know is there anybody 's PhD dissertation(or on-going research) is on this topic? _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Nov 5 08:08:36 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA04072 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 08:08:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHNOR-0007lQ-Qq for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 08:08:17 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA5D8FBM029841 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 08:08:15 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHNOR-0007lE-Ms for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 08:08:15 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA04035 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 08:08:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHNOQ-0003Zy-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 08:08:14 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHNOQ-0003Zv-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 08:08:14 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHNOF-0007dP-0d; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 08:08:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHNO7-0007bg-RY for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 08:07:56 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA04029 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 08:07:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHNO6-0003Zj-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 08:07:54 -0500 Received: from ims21.stu.nus.edu.sg ([137.132.14.228]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHNO6-0003Za-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 08:07:54 -0500 Received: from MBXSRV26.stu.nus.edu.sg ([137.132.14.236]) by ims21.stu.nus.edu.sg with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5329); Wed, 5 Nov 2003 21:07:50 +0800 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Subject: RE: [manet] Mobile agents Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 21:07:50 +0800 Message-ID: <07FF47DA7F34EF4F8700F35EE424493E0111D06F@MBXSRV26.stu.nus.edu.sg> Thread-Topic: [manet] Mobile agents Thread-Index: AcOjhKvsna8s+I9PRYy9B38jlk2DeQAFoxBQ From: "Marwaha Shivanajay" To: "moez gadri" Cc: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Nov 2003 13:07:50.0945 (UTC) FILETIME=[D1140910:01C3A39D] Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, You may look at this work that we did sometime ago using mobile agents based routing combined with reactive routing to develop a hybrid routing scheme: "Mobile Agents based Routing Protocol for Mobile Ad Hoc Networks",=20 Proceedings of IEEE GLOBECOM 2002, 17-21 Nov 2002, Taipei, Taiwan Well in my view mobile agents may not be able to perform very good with very high mobility, for that reactive routing is the answer as it (mobile agents based routing or proactive routing) may not be able to cope up with the mobility and the routes would become invalid very soon. But when you consider scalability in terms of network size, reactive routing may not yield the best results (at least in terms of route discovery latency) and hence there have been many previous studies on hybrid routing schemes such as Zone Routing Protocol (ZRP) and Ant-AODV hybrid routing etc. Mobile agents based routing or hybrid routing would make a good case where route discovery is required to be fast. Consider a simple case where a para-medic is waiting for a long route to be discovered (when a pure reactive routing scheme is used) in order to call the ambulance for an emergency and the patient is waiting along side. Regards, Shivanajay -----Original Message----- From: manet-admin@ietf.org [mailto:manet-admin@ietf.org] On Behalf Of moez gadri Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 6:05 PM To: manet@ietf.org Subject: [manet] Mobile agents Hi every body, I'm interrested to using mobile agents to improve routing mecanisms for MANETs. for exemple we can use them to minimise the time latency due to route recovery in reactive protocols. can agents improve any other drowback, for example ameliore the scalability to mobility, ... if anyone have an idea in this subject, please send it to me. best regards . _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Nov 5 09:31:34 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA06691 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 09:31:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHOgm-0004JH-7y for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 09:31:16 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA5EVGvN016561 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 09:31:16 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHOgm-0004J2-2z for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 09:31:16 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA06673 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 09:31:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHOgk-0004yK-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 09:31:14 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHOgj-0004yH-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 09:31:13 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHOgZ-0004Hy-3e; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 09:31:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHOfn-0004Gs-7E for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 09:30:16 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA06649 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 09:30:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHOfl-0004xT-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 09:30:13 -0500 Received: from eri.interia.pl ([217.74.65.138]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHOfk-0004xP-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 09:30:13 -0500 Received: from poczta.interia.pl (naos.interia.pl [217.74.65.50]) by eri.interia.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10B2E26ED8 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 15:30:07 +0100 (CET) Received: from 127.0.0.1 (naos.interia.pl [127.0.0.1]) by system.wewnetrzny9 (poczta.interia.pl) with SMTP id 2B47F146C8E for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 15:30:08 +0100 (CET) Received: by poczta.interia.pl (poczta.interia.pl, from userid 502) id 13617146C85; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 15:30:08 +0100 (CET) Received: from gawlin (unknown [195.116.153.110]) by poczta.fm (poczta.fm) with ESMTP id 6D626AF54C for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 15:30:06 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <001d01c3a3a9$cf34cb50$8b000b0a@gawlin> From: "gawlin" To: Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 15:33:33 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [manet] 802.11 firmware source code Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, I'm looking for firmware source code of any 802.11 network adapter. I wil= l be very grateful for your help. Regards Marcin Gawli=F1ski _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Nov 5 11:03:09 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA11275 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 11:03:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHQ7P-0001f8-Vh for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 11:02:53 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA5G2pCx006387 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 11:02:51 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHQ7P-0001ew-Pn for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 11:02:51 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA11256 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 11:02:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHQ7N-0006DZ-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 11:02:49 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHQ7M-0006DW-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 11:02:48 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHQ6b-0001Tx-Rm; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 11:02:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHQ69-0001SW-M2 for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 11:01:33 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA11220 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 11:01:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHQ67-0006CQ-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 11:01:31 -0500 Received: from cheviot3.ncl.ac.uk ([128.240.233.117]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHQ66-0006CN-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 11:01:30 -0500 Received: from ncl.ac.uk (deerbook.ncl.ac.uk [128.240.149.114]) by cheviot3.ncl.ac.uk (8.10.1-20030918-patch/8.10.1) with ESMTP id hA5G1GR13393; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 16:01:16 GMT Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 16:01:24 +0000 Subject: Re: [manet] Mobile agents Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Cc: To: "Marwaha Shivanajay" , Justin Lipman , "moez gadri" From: Einar Vollset In-Reply-To: <07FF47DA7F34EF4F8700F35EE424493E0111D06F@MBXSRV26.stu.nus.edu.sg> Message-Id: <4E3630DE-0FA9-11D8-8740-000A9575BD30@ncl.ac.uk> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) X-Newcastle-MailScanner-Information: Please contact Postmaster@newcastle.ac.uk for more information X-Newcastle-MailScanner: Found to be clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hey, The following paper describe a mobile agent approach to achieving =20 self-stabilizing group comms you might find relevant if you like me have interests=20 slightly outside pure best-effort unicast routing: Shlomi Dolev, Elad Schiller, and Jennifer Welch. =93Random Walk for=20 Self-Stabilizing Group Communication in Ad-Hoc Networks,=94 Proc. of the=20= 21st IEEE Symposium on Reliable Distributed Systems (SRDS 2002) pp.=20 70-79. In addition, appears in PODC 2002 pp. 259. Cheers, Einar ---------------------------------------- Einar Vollset PhD Student School of Computing Science University of Newcastle, UK http://vollset.org ----------------------------------------- On Wednesday, Nov 5, 2003, at 13:07 Europe/London, Marwaha Shivanajay=20 wrote: > Hi, > > You may look at this work that we did sometime ago using mobile agents > based routing combined with reactive routing to develop a hybrid=20 > routing > scheme: > > "Mobile Agents based Routing Protocol for Mobile Ad Hoc Networks", > Proceedings of IEEE GLOBECOM 2002, 17-21 Nov 2002, Taipei, Taiwan > > Well in my view mobile agents may not be able to perform very good = with > very high mobility, for that reactive routing is the answer as it > (mobile agents based routing or proactive routing) may not be able to > cope up with the mobility and the routes would become invalid very=20 > soon. > > > But when you consider scalability in terms of network size, reactive > routing may not yield the best results (at least in terms of route > discovery latency) and hence there have been many previous studies on > hybrid routing schemes such as Zone Routing Protocol (ZRP) and = Ant-AODV > hybrid routing etc. Mobile agents based routing or hybrid routing = would > make a good case where route discovery is required to be fast. = Consider > a simple case where a para-medic is waiting for a long route to be > discovered (when a pure reactive routing scheme is used) in order to > call the ambulance for an emergency and the patient is waiting along > side. > > Regards, > Shivanajay > > -----Original Message----- > From: manet-admin@ietf.org [mailto:manet-admin@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > moez gadri > Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 6:05 PM > To: manet@ietf.org > Subject: [manet] Mobile agents > > > Hi every body, > > I'm interrested to using mobile agents to improve routing mecanisms = for > MANETs. for exemple we can use them to minimise the time latency due = to > route recovery in reactive protocols. can agents improve any other > drowback, for example ameliore the scalability to mobility, ... > > if anyone have an idea in this subject, please send it to me. > > best regards . > > _______________________________________________ > manet mailing list > manet@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet > > _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Nov 5 12:37:36 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA14197 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 12:37:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHRao-0007ht-32 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 12:37:19 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA5HbHWi029616 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 12:37:18 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHRan-0007hW-NL for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 12:37:17 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA14163 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 12:37:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHRam-0007Pa-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 12:37:16 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHRal-0007PW-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 12:37:15 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHRaZ-0007d2-Ic; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 12:37:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHRa1-0007bW-JW for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 12:36:29 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA14144 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 12:36:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHRZz-0007PD-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 12:36:27 -0500 Received: from falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.120.74]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHRZz-0007P8-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 12:36:27 -0500 Received: from user-2ivfmsg.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.247.219.144] helo=erg.sri.com) by falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AHRZx-0006NP-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 09:36:26 -0800 Message-ID: <3FA934F8.6030309@erg.sri.com> Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 09:35:52 -0800 From: Richard Ogier User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011128 Netscape6/6.2.1 (emach0202) X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: manet Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [manet] OSPF Extensions for Mobile Ad Hoc Networks Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit All, Please look at the following draft: http://www.erg.sri.com/projects/tbrpf/docs/draft-ogier-manet-ospf-extension-00.txt which offers suggestions for extending OSPF to support manet interfaces. This draft does not propose a specific protocol, but discusses alternative candidate techniques that can be compared via discussions, analysis, and/or simulations. The suggestions in the draft below are consistent with the recommendations in draft-baker-manet-ospf-problem-statement-00.txt. This draft has not yet been submitted to the IETF (since the problem statement draft was announced only recently), but may be submitted as an individual draft after the upcoming meeting. (There are no IPR claims for this draft.) I hope that some of the ideas in this draft will become part of a more formal Internet-Draft, coauthored by several members of the working group, which describes a more specific plan for designing a proactive routing protocol for manets. Regards, Richard _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Nov 5 14:20:32 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA18059 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 14:20:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHTCQ-0005ky-Es for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 14:20:15 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA5JKE4Y022122 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 14:20:14 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHTCQ-0005kj-9W for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 14:20:14 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA18034 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 14:20:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHTCN-00016p-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 14:20:11 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHTCN-00016m-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 14:20:11 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHTCI-0005jC-UB; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 14:20:06 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHTBT-0005fH-NZ for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 14:19:15 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA17996 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 14:19:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHTBR-00016N-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 14:19:13 -0500 Received: from osgood.cc.nd.edu ([129.74.250.227]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHTBQ-000161-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 14:19:12 -0500 Received: from sys.cse.ND.EDU (sys.cse.nd.edu [129.74.50.188]) by osgood.cc.nd.edu (Switch-3.1.3/Switch-3.1.0) with ESMTP id hA5JIgEW002000 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 14:18:42 -0500 (EST) Received: by sys.cse.ND.EDU (Postfix, from userid 9403) id D3982176BA6; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 14:25:44 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 14:25:44 -0500 From: Surendar Chandra To: manet@ietf.org Message-ID: <20031105192544.GA9760@sys.cse.nd.edu> Reply-To: surendar@nd.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-ND-MTA-Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 14:18:43 -0500 (EST) X-ND-Virus-Scan: engine v4.2.40; dat v4301 Subject: [manet] Call for participation: Trusted Internet Workshop (TIW03) Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , {Please accept our apologies if you receive multiple copies of this CFP} Dear Colleague, Enclosed below please find the Call for Participation for the Second International Trusted Internet Workshop (TIW) 2003 to be held in conjunction with Intl. Conference on High-Performance Computing on December 17, 2003 in Hyderabad, INDIA. For complete information about the upcoming conference, please visit: http://www.ee.iastate.edu/~gmani/tiw-2003 We apologize if you have received multiple copies of this Call for Participation. Please feel free to distribute it to those who might be interested. Very truly yours, Prof. G. Manimaran (gmani@iastate.edu) Prof. C. Sivaram Murthy (murthy@iitm.ac.in) Prof. Krishna Sivalingam (krishna@umbc.edu) ========================================================================== CALL FOR PARTICIPATION Second International Trusted Internet Workshop (TIW) 2003 Held in conjunction with Intl. Conference on High-Performance Computing 2003 December 17, 2003 Hyderabad, INDIA URL: http://www.ee.iastate.edu/~gmani/tiw-2003 Registration, Travel and Accommodation Information available at: http://www.hipc.org For more information, please contact: Prof. Manimaran (gmani@iastate.edu) and Prof. Sivalingam (krishna@umbc.edu) ========================================================================= SCOPE ----- In recent years, there has been a tremendous push from both civil and military communities for next generation applications demanding Quality of Service (QoS), reliability, and security guarantees. The goal of Trusted Internet workshop is to provide a forum for researchers and practitioners to present and discuss their work and exchange ideas in the areas of Internet QoS, Internet Reliability, and Internet Security. To achieve this goal, this workshop presents a collection of high-quality papers on various aspects of the Trusted Internet. ********************************************************************* PRELIMINARY TECHNICAL PROGRAM Session 1: Introduction and Keynote (Time: 9.00 AM - 9.45 AM) Introduction: General Chairs Keynote Talk: QoS and Security in Mobile Ad-hoc and Sensor Networks Prof. Prasant Mohapatra, Univ. of California, Davis, USA Mobile ad-hoc and sensor networks belong to the class of infrastructure- less wireless networks, which do not need any fixed infrastructure for operations. Mobile ad hoc networks (MANETs) have use in battlefields, disaster recovery areas, inter-communication between islands or in difficult terrains, and conferencing with any infrastructure support. Sensor networks have a wide range of applications ranging from monitoring environments, sensitive installations, and remote data collection and analysis. Research and development in the areas of infrastructure-less wireless networks have been advancing at a fast pace and more efforts need to be dedicated in this direction for wide-scale adoption and deployment. In this talk we will overview issues and challenges in EQT (read as EQUITY): Energy, QoS, and Trust aspects of the infrastructure-less networks. These issues are very critical in addition to the routing and performance aspects of these networks. In this talk, we will overview various EQT issues and will explore the future challenges in these areas. Session 2: Multicast in WDM Networks (Time: 9.45 AM - 10.30 AM) Session Chair: TBA Reliability-Constrained Least-Cost Multicast Routing in WDM Optical Networks Chava Vijaya Saradhi, Mohan Gurusamy, and Zhou Luying (NUS, Singapore) Multicast Traffic Routing in IP-over-WDM Networks Niladhuri Sreenath (Pondicherry Engg. College, India) and C. Siva Ram Murthy (IIT Madras, India) Break: 10.30 AM -- 11.00 AM Session 3: Internet Security and QoS (Time: 11.00 AM - 1.00 PM) Session Chair: TBA Trust Analysis of Link State Network Routing Dijiang Huang, Deep Medhi, Cory Beard, and Lein Harn (Univ. of Missouri-Kansas City, USA) Security modeling and quantification of intrusion tolerant systems Bharat Madan and Kishore Trivedi (Duke University, USA) Trojan Detection using Time Fingerprints in a Self Checking Signature Scheme M.F. Abdulla (University of Yemen, Yemen) and C. P. Ravikumar (Texas Instruments, India) Ensuring Fault-Tolerance in Group Key Distribution using Multicast Group Characteristics H. Seba, A. Bouabdallah and N. Badache (Univ. Tech. Compiegne, France) Virtual video caching: A scalable and generic techniques for improved quality of video service S. P. Pal, R. R. Suman, G. S. Anil Kumar, and R. Malhotra (IIT Kharagpur, India) ********************************************************************* ORGANIZING COMMITTEE -------------------- GENERAL CO-CHAIRS ----------------- G. Manimaran Assistant Professor Dept. of ECpE Iowa State University Ames, IA 50011, USA Phone: 515 294 9175 Fax: 515 294 8432 Email: gmani@iastate.edu C. Siva Ram Murthy Professor Department of Computer Science IIT Chennai (formerly Madras) Chennai - 600 036, INDIA Email: murthy@iitm.ac.in TECHNICAL PROGRAM CHAIR ----------------------- Krishna Sivalingam Associate Professor Department of CSEE 1000 Hilltop Circle University of Maryland Baltimore County Baltimore, MD 21250 Email: krishna@cs.umbc.edu Phone: 1-410-455-3961 Fax: 1-410-455-3969 TECHNICAL PROGRAM COMMITTEE --------------------------- Albert Banchs, NEC Europe, Germany Abdelmadjid Bouabdallah, UTC, France Anirban Chakrabarti, Iowa State University, USA Surendar Chandra, Univ. of Notre Dame, USA Mohan Gurusamy, NUS, Singapore Rajeev Kumar, IIT Kharagpur, India Padma Mundur, UMBC, USA Prasant Mohapatra, University of California, Davis, USA Sudebkumar Prasant Pal, IIT Kharagpur, India Byrav Ramamurthy, University of Nebraska, USA Aaron Striegel, University of Notre Dame, USA Suresh Subramaniam, George Washington University, USA PUBLICITY CHAIR --------------- Prof. Surendar Chandra, Univ. of Notre Dame, USA REGISTRATION INFORMATION: www.hipc.org ====================================================================== _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Nov 5 21:00:35 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA05612 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 21:00:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHZRY-0007nd-Ez for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 21:00:17 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA620GoU029975 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 21:00:16 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHZRY-0007nO-Aq for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 21:00:16 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA05592 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 21:00:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHZRV-0007fD-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 21:00:13 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHZRV-0007fA-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 21:00:13 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHZRL-0007lv-4F; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 21:00:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHZQk-0007l9-4P for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 20:59:26 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA05567 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 20:59:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHZQh-0007cn-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 20:59:23 -0500 Received: from patty.levels.unisa.edu.au ([130.220.36.156]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHZQg-0007ck-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 20:59:22 -0500 Received: from spri.levels.unisa.edu.au (morpheus [172.17.0.143]) by patty.levels.unisa.edu.au (8.12.10/8.12.2) with ESMTP id hA61xAv1029213; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 12:29:11 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <3FA9AAEA.20104@spri.levels.unisa.edu.au> Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 12:29:06 +1030 From: Peter Pham User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020830 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jean Lorchat , MANET Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: [manet] Power Saving in 802.11] References: <3FA770D3.7010007@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr> <3FA77ADC.50300@clarinet.u-strasbg.fr> <200311042152.19231.justin@titr.uow.edu.au> <3FA7A9F0.3060502@clarinet.u-strasbg.fr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi I am really interested in the time switch between the ``sleep'' state to other state. By the spec, the turn around time between Tx and Rx must be less than 5micro sec. However it does not state this. I guess it should be in order of few microsec right ? Although, it is easily modelled in ns2 or Glomosim, is it feasible in practice ?...What I mean is is that possible we can control the NIC card as that easy ?. For example, can we change the Tx power as any level as we wish at anytime. Can we set the card to sleep mode and turn it back on at anytime as we wish. Is there anyone has any info on this...I appreciate some ``real'' knowledge on this. Cheers Peter Pham Jean Lorchat wrote: > Hi Justin, > >> From your conclusion (quick read), it would seem that the first order >> radio model I quoted is reasonably accurate in terms of reception and >> transmission? > > > Although these are not my conclusions (I'm not the author), that's > what it seems. > However, I think that John is right when he states that we should > differenciate > so-called idle mode corresponding to "discarding a packet not intended > to us" and > real sleep mode that 802.11 hardware is capable of (namely PSP in > infrastructures). > But knowing this, you must also have a way to use it in adhoc mode > (and I don't know > whether adhoc PSP is a good solution for manets...) ? or do you mean > MAC modifications ? > > Jean > > > > _______________________________________________ > manet mailing list > manet@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet > > _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Nov 5 21:42:33 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA06811 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 21:42:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHa66-0002Ks-1W for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 21:42:16 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA62g9HK008972 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 21:42:10 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHa65-0002Kd-Th for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 21:42:09 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA06783 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 21:41:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHa62-0000OU-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 21:42:06 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHa62-0000OR-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 21:42:06 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHa5x-0002J9-ET; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 21:42:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHa51-0002H0-CZ for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 21:41:03 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA06748 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 21:40:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHa4y-0000Ni-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 21:41:00 -0500 Received: from cms4.etri.re.kr ([129.254.16.14] helo=cms4.cms.etri.re.kr) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHa4x-0000NC-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 21:40:59 -0500 Received: from jafywinxp (pd412h.etri.re.kr [129.254.112.174]) by cms4.cms.etri.re.kr with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2657.72) id WA8PY72V; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 11:36:35 +0900 Reply-To: From: "HyunWook Cha" To: "'Christophe Jelger'" , Cc: "autonet" Subject: RE: FW: [manet] I-D ACTION:draft-cha-manet-extended-support-globalv6-00.txt Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 11:40:26 +0900 Message-ID: <000001c3a40f$558cee70$ae70fe81@jafywinxp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <3FA7AD3F.2000203@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, Christophe. Thanks for your interest in my draft. Please see my comments below. > -----Original Message----- > From: manet-admin@ietf.org [mailto:manet-admin@ietf.org] On > Behalf Of Christophe Jelger > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 10:45 PM > To: manet@ietf.org > Subject: Re: FW: [manet] I-D > ACTION:draft-cha-manet-extended-support-globalv6-00.txt > > > > Hi again HyunWook, > > I also read your draft, and have a few comments about it. > > First, don't take it as an offense, but it is sometimes quite hard to > read (I'm not saying mine is easier to read !), especially > the part with > the locator (section 5.2). I'm sometimes still not sure I understood > things as you are expecting people to understand them. > > So as far as I got it, a node first acquires a global address > (or more, > one for each gateway ?) valid for GLOBAL_IP_LIFETIME (by the way you > don't mention how long that should be). Then if there is no > route entry > for the (current ?) gateway, the node can use another GW in a MIP > manner. Well roughly I understand your proposal, but it's all the > details I don't understand well that bother me. My main > advice is that > you maybe try to rewrite this section and maybe include an > example (in a > step-by-step way). > Your summary is right. Thank you for your advice. I apologize that my bad composition bothered you. :-) I will revise this I-D as soon as I can. > In fact I have many questions and in the mean time I don't > know where to > start because I'm not sure I understood the details. So silly > questions > are : > > - Each node configures a global address for each gateway ? Or > just when > it needs a locator ? Every node configures a global address per a gateway. As you know, while global address acquition in Wakikawa's draft is in stateless manner similar to RFC 2462, this is performed in stateful manner. So, a manet node should request assignment of its global address to availabe gateways in my draft. If unsolicited gateway advertisement(GW_ADV) is issued periodically by gateway, a manet node can request address assignment by unicast GW_SOL using route informaiton from received GW_ADVs. Otherwise, a manet node can obtain its addresses from reachable gateways by broadcasting GW_SOL. As I mentioned in my draft, locator candidates are subset of configured global addresses of a node. > - The idea to redirect packets arrving at a given gateway through > another gateway from which ad hoc node is reachable seems > good but I'm not sure whether it is realistic or not. For example, at some point > there might be a cascade of such registrations, how do you > handle that ? Good question. I also think that a cascade of locator registrations should be avoided. To address this problem, I added following requirement for locator registration. Firstly, a manet node checks that cared address(being used to current active sesstion) is being used as a locator of another global address or not. Only if the cared address is not being used as locator, it performs locator registration. Secondly, a manet node should use global addresses as candidates of locator which are not being cared through previous locator registrations. However, these requirements are not sufficient to avoid this issue since information related locator registration in a manet node can be inconsistent with information in gateway, which can be occurred ocassionally in nature of manet. Thus, in my draft, gateways are responsible for cascaded locator registration problem. That is, when gateway which assigned locator address receives a LOC_UPDATE, it filters out the message if locator in the message is being cared through previous locator registation. If not, the gateway updates loc_service_expire in node_entry for locator in the message to current time plus LOC_SERVICE_LIFETIME(10 secs). By doing this, locator is not allowed to be cared through upcoming locator registrations as long as loc_service_expire is valid. In addition, when gateway which assigned the address for which the LOC_UPDATE was issued receives a LOC_UPDATE, it filters out the message if it is possilbe that the cared address is being used as locator for another address, in other words, loc_service_expire for the cared address is valid. In this way, this issue can be handled simply. > - I'm not sure about the complexity of your proposal if you want to > implement it. Can you tell us more about that ? Actually, I have written NS-2 simulation codes for my draft except for implicit ack related to address refresh as well as locator registration. In my codes, I also considered next hop forwarding strategy instead of routing header. But big difference between you and I is that multiple global addresses are configured and maintained in very natural manner, and source address based forwarding is performed in intermediate nodes on a path to a gateway thereby avoiding use of routing header. For this scheme, logical prefix continuity is necessary. That is, all intermediate nodes should have corresponding GW_INFO for the prefix of source address in a received packet. As for complexity, Uhm... Currently, I did not yet analyze the complexity of my draft deeply. Basically, idea is simple but applicability to manet requires addtional considerations as my draft describes. Although, I tried to perform efficiently my scheme, room to be modified and enhanced may be left in my draft. > - Your proposal induces packet encapsulations, which is quite > hungry in > resources (an extra header in all packets). Routing becomes > sub-optimal > (i.e. triangular). Right. Tunneling using registered locator should be done as restictively(limitedly) as possible. Basically, I propose this scheme as advanced functionality for basic internet connectivity support. So, a gateway can forward using route entry for a manet node instead of tunneling using locator when the gateway knows fresh route information throgh normal route discovery by the manet node (in case of bidirectional communication) or the gateway itself. Please, think about the case where a gateway can not obtain route information for destination manet node because of a little bit long-term partition. In this case, my scheme can be helpful since it can help upper layer session keep going safely. I think this has big advantage over some nonobtimal routing or bandwidth consumption by encapsulation. > - I think your proposal induces a large number of security > issues around > locator registrations : Node B registers a locator with a > gateway G for > address of node C (and gateway of C will forward packets to G > that will > forward them to B). Is this possible ? > Right. As Mobile IPv6 needs securiy associations between HA and a mobile node to authorize a binding update, security concern is also a critical issue in my draft. As you read section 6, this is out of scope for the initial version. As I mentioned in my draft, I am cosidering basic security mechanism for routing protocols (update of route entry actually requires secure mechanism needed for authentication of destination node) as well as additional method. I wonder that IPSec can be applied to my scheme efficiently. IMO, more than two way handshake to establish security association can not be adapted in manet. Enhanced Diffi-Helman method can be used, too. Again, I will describe in more detail in revised version. > I'm sorry I can't give more feedback, mainly because I think I > understand your proposal roughly but not deeply. > > Regards, > > Christophe > I hope that my explanation can help you understand more deeply and you can give important comments. Thanks in advance. HyunWook Cha _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Nov 5 23:59:32 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA10418 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 23:59:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHcEk-0000gm-HE for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 23:59:15 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA64xEFO002646 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 23:59:14 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHcEk-0000gb-Bk for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 23:59:14 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA10396 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 23:59:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHcEh-00022p-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 23:59:11 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHcEh-00022m-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 23:59:11 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHcEY-0000fA-4v; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 23:59:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHcE9-0000dk-LO for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 23:58:38 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA10358 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 23:58:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHcE7-00022C-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 23:58:35 -0500 Received: from cms4.etri.re.kr ([129.254.16.14] helo=cms4.cms.etri.re.kr) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHcE6-00021q-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 23:58:34 -0500 Received: from jafywinxp (pd412h.etri.re.kr [129.254.112.174]) by cms4.cms.etri.re.kr with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2657.72) id WA8PY7TY; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 13:54:19 +0900 Reply-To: From: "HyunWook Cha" To: "'Christophe Jelger'" Cc: , "'autonet'" Subject: RE: [manet] Comment on manet gateway autoconf draft. Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 13:58:10 +0900 Message-ID: <000001c3a422$93532950$ae70fe81@jafywinxp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <3FA7A552.4070309@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hellow, Cristophe. Please see my comments below. [snip] ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----------------------------- > > HyunWook Cha wrote: > > Hello, Christophe. > > > > I briefly read your draft. > > Please see following comments. > > > > .GW_INFO_REFRESH_PERIOD(2 secs) is too short. This can > degrade overall > > manet capability. > > Well in fact this value may change, and actually it is not > easy to find > a suitable value. I mean, if this value is too big then we won't have > any reactivity to topological changes. In the mean time, I do > not agree > with you when you say that it degrades the performance of the > manet, as > with our proposal each node does one (local to its 1-hop > neighborhood) > broadcast every GW_INFO_REFRESH_PEIOD. The size of the broadcasted > message itself is very small (24 bytes for the data + IPv6 header). I > don't think such a small overhead can that much degrade performance. > Uhm... I understand that. But, receiver nodes should process GW_INFO in routing module or seperate specific module whether the GW_INFO is accepted or not. I think this is also unnecessay bandwidth consumption and processing overhead. > > - Irrespective of type of underlying routing protocols, > this appoach > > can cause inconsistency of route entry for gw and default > route entry. > > This is ok for proactive routing protocols except for above issue. > > However, as for reactive routing protocols, prefix > continuity does not > > help at all and routing header is needed to avoid ingress filtering > > problem. Becuase routing entry is created through routing > protocol(you > > told that in your draft), path along which packets travers can be > > different from one with prefix continuity. If this is right, you > > should consider applicability to reactive routing protocols again. > > Well in fact this is mentioned in the draft, i.e. there might be a > different next hop entry for default route (added by our > protocol) and > for gateway/128 route (added by proactive routing protocol), > in the case > of proactive protocols. With F_DISTANCE, it is easy to show that the > alternate path is also a shortest-path. With F_STABILITY, the > alternate > path may be longer than shortest-path, but (during a > stady-state period) > all nodes on this path use the same prefix, so we don't need > a routing > header : that is our main objective. > > Now with reactive protocols, we don't add a default route. > The reactive > routing protocol is in charge of route discovery. If the prefix > continuity condition is satisfied, it means that there > exists, between a > node A with prefix P and its gateway G, a path of nodes with > prefix P. > If we want to avoid the need of a routing header, there should be a > condition in routing protocol operation : "don't accept R_REP (for a > destination address outside manet) from nodes that use a different > prefix". This condition would impose (in a recursive manner) that the > path would be composed of nodes with prefix P. > Above condition is not sufficient. Broadcast RREQ message can traverse any node irrespective of its prefix. So, reverse path established by RREQ is shortest one toward the gateway but intermediate nodes may have different prefix than a requesting node as well as intermediate node replying with RREP. Thus, you should insert additional requirement into processing of RREQ that only intermediate nodes with the same prefix as requesting node can forward RREQ. This can lead that upper layer session is disconnected even before lifetime of prefix is expired. > > > > .Why do not you allow configuration of multiple global > addresses from > > multiple gateways? > > Mainly because we favor prefix continuity. A node could have > more than > one global address but it should then use the one for which prefix > continuity is maintained. In our proposal we use only one global > address, but it is changed (with some delay) if a topological change > occurs. In fact and again our proposal avoids the need of a routing > header. Actuallly it can of course be interesting to have multiple > global addresses, and this something we may add in the future, if we > manage to come up with a cleaver idea on how we can use these > addresses > efficiently. > If the main purpose of maintenance of prefix continuity is to avoid routing header, I do not agree. IMO, usage of routing header has following advantages. - not require prefix continuity, but prefix stability can be maximized. As long as a node can find route information for a gateway, it can refresh its address. This can help tranport layer survivability. - can use the shortest path established by routing protocol. This can compensate bandwidth consumption caused by routing header while traffics can traverse non-optimal paths without routing header. - ok when intermediate nodes do not want internet connectivity or not yet configure its global address just after bootstraping. It needs only route information for a gateway through RREQ and RREP exchange. What do you think about this? Regards, HyunWook Cha _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Nov 6 04:40:38 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA00907 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 04:40:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHgcl-0001Oh-G4 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 04:40:20 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA69eJ5I005339 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 04:40:19 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHgcg-0001NL-Tp for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 04:40:14 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA00845 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 04:40:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHgcc-0005hM-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 04:40:10 -0500 Received: from manatick.foretec.com ([4.17.168.5] helo=manatick) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHgcb-0005gw-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 04:40:09 -0500 Received: from [132.151.6.22] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by manatick with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1AHgZl-0001aQ-Hi for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 04:37:13 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHgNV-0007un-Nh; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 04:24:33 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHfgg-0005bK-1L for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 03:40:18 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA28922 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 03:40:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHfgd-0004wF-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 03:40:15 -0500 Received: from mx.laposte.net ([81.255.54.11]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHfgc-0004vS-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 03:40:15 -0500 Received: from laposte.net (127.0.0.1) by mx.laposte.net (6.0.053) id 3F83E7D90105C55B for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 09:39:28 +0100 Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 09:39:28 +0100 Message-Id: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Sensitivity: 3 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_=_XaM3_Bdry.1068107968.2A.739090.42.17440.52.42.1010.27251" From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?mouna.ayari?=" To: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?manet?=" X-XaM3-API-Version: 3.2 R29 (B54 pl1) X-type: 0 X-SenderIP: 193.95.33.18 Subject: [manet] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Implementation_code_for_OLSR_in_Glomosim?= Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , --_=_XaM3_Bdry.1068107968.2A.739090.42.17440.52.42.1010.27251 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi every body,=0D=0AI want to know if there is any Implementation code fo= r OLSR in Glomosim. If it exists please send to me this implementation co= de. =0D=0AThanks.=0A=0AAcc=E9dez au courrier =E9lectronique de La Poste := www.laposte.net ; =0A3615 LAPOSTENET (0,34=80/mn) ; t=E9l : 08 92 68 13 = 50 (0,34=80/mn)=0A=0A --_=_XaM3_Bdry.1068107968.2A.739090.42.17440.52.42.1010.27251 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
=0D=0A
Hi= every body,
=0D=0A
I want to know if there is any Implementatio= n code for OLSR in Glomosim. If it exists please send to me this implemen= tation code.
=0D=0A
Thanks.
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=0AAcc=E9dez = au courrier =E9lectronique de La Poste : www.laposte.net ; =0A
=0A3615= LAPOSTENET (0,34=80/mn) ; t=E9l : 08 92 68 13 50 (0,34=80/mn)=0A=0A --_=_XaM3_Bdry.1068107968.2A.739090.42.17440.52.42.1010.27251-- _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Nov 6 08:28:33 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA08004 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 08:28:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHkBJ-0006Wo-TG for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 08:28:14 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA6DSDoO025085 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 08:28:13 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHkBJ-0006WO-JK for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 08:28:13 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA07954 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 08:28:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHkBG-0000yI-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 08:28:10 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHkBG-0000yF-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 08:28:10 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHkB8-0006TF-6y; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 08:28:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHkAN-0006SG-57 for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 08:27:15 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA07934 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 08:27:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHkAL-0000xn-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 08:27:14 -0500 Received: from herculanum.int-evry.fr ([157.159.11.15]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHkAL-0000xS-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 08:27:13 -0500 Received: from sparte.int-evry.fr (spartebis.int-evry.fr [157.159.10.20]) by herculanum.int-evry.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE46F34017 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 14:19:52 +0100 (CET) Received: from alpes.int-evry.fr (alpes.int-evry.fr [157.159.10.19]) by spartebis.int-evry.fr (Postfix) with SMTP id CCC8B3F429; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 14:19:52 +0100 (CET) Received: from sparte.int-evry.fr ([157.159.10.11]) by alpes.int-evry.fr (SAVSMTP 3.0.0.44) with SMTP id M2003110614195232049 ; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 14:19:52 +0100 Received: from molure.int-evry.fr (molure.int-evry.fr [157.159.10.18]) by sparte.int-evry.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE2ED3F429; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 14:19:52 +0100 (CET) Received: from free.fr (MCI-0475e84c91.int-evry.fr [157.159.110.224]) by molure.int-evry.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9ECC9C2280; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 14:19:52 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <3FAA4A7A.40607@free.fr> Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 14:19:54 +0100 From: Vincent Gauthier User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; fr-FR; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031007 X-Accept-Language: fr-fr, en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: manet@ietf.org Cc: Sandoche BALAKRISHNAN X-Enigmail-Version: 0.76.7.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [manet] Crosslayer Simulation Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi evrybody, My Phd research focus on CrossLayer Simulation, I want to know if there is any Implementation code for Ns or other simulator. If it exists please give me the pointer to this. Thanks. _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Nov 6 15:14:40 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA27538 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 15:14:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHqWL-0007qR-Pd for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 15:14:21 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA6KELlF030149 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 15:14:21 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHqWL-0007qC-Km for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 15:14:21 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA27483 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 15:14:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHqWK-00078E-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 15:14:20 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHqWJ-00078A-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 15:14:19 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHqW2-0007mQ-3x; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 15:14:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHqVo-0007kM-DF for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 15:13:48 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA27410 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 15:13:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHqVn-00077B-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 15:13:47 -0500 Received: from basie.internet2.edu ([207.75.164.22]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHqVm-000778-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 15:13:46 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by basie.internet2.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73A3246D for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 15:13:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from magic.internet2.edu (unknown [216.91.87.132]) by basie.internet2.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB06B3DF for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 15:13:41 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20031106150815.0291f0c8@mail.internet2.edu> X-Sender: jzeeff@mail.internet2.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 15:13:29 -0500 To: manet@ietf.org From: Jon Zeeff In-Reply-To: <8167304.1068026726309.JavaMail.moez_gadri@gomailjtp05> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: by mail.internet2.edu virus scanner Subject: [manet] directional antennas in mesh networks Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , I hear from the military that they are mostly looking at arrays of directional antennas with switching systems to select the antenna used. Ie, imagine 8 yagi antennas pointed in different directions and a switch that allows any of them to be selected. Advantages are lower power, less interference, longer range. The disadvantage is more complex routing software - you also have to decide which antenna to use when. I tend to agree that it is the right way to go. What protocols do we have to support this? _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Nov 6 15:43:38 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA29820 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 15:43:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHqyN-0002Zx-GJ for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 15:43:20 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA6KhJd3009907 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 15:43:19 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHqyN-0002Zi-Bl for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 15:43:19 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA29781 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 15:43:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHqyL-000034-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 15:43:17 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHqyL-000031-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 15:43:17 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHqy5-0002Rx-H1; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 15:43:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHqx9-0002J5-PG for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 15:42:03 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA29645 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 15:41:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHqx4-0007nJ-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 15:41:58 -0500 Received: from smtp-bedford-x.mitre.org ([192.160.51.76] helo=smtp-bedford.mitre.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHqx3-0007nE-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 15:41:57 -0500 Received: from smtp-bedford.mitre.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp-bedford.mitre.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id hA6Kfv931916 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 15:41:57 -0500 Received: from MAILHUB1 (mailhub1.mitre.org [129.83.20.31]) by smtp-bedford.mitre.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id hA6KfvC31884; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 15:41:57 -0500 Received: from kbrayer.mitre.org (129.83.64.59) by mailhub1.mitre.org with SMTP id 4880105; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 15:41:49 -0500 Message-ID: <3FAAB29F.2050803@mitre.org> Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 15:44:15 -0500 From: Kenneth Brayer User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jon Zeeff CC: manet@ietf.org Subject: Re: [manet] directional antennas in mesh networks References: <5.1.0.14.2.20031106150815.0291f0c8@mail.internet2.edu> In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20031106150815.0291f0c8@mail.internet2.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jon If you look at Ad Hoc you typically see a routing scheme on top of a broadcast scheme. Like run a router over packet radio. In the Ad Hoc spec they are typically merged. With directional antennas the antennas "look" at each other to set up a connection and then communicate. So you just need to separate the routing scheme from probably any Manet idea and use it as a point to point protocol. Just calculate the path based on routing info, point and send. Of course you have to know where to point. LEO Satellites can be prepointed and as they revolve around the earth if you did it right the pointing holds. With mobile vehicles, ground or air you may need a GPS based pilot system or some other orderwire for the vehicles to find each other. Since the routing needs paths and calculates based on paths it would seem a proactive system would be desired. If you look in "Packet Switching for Mobile Earth Stations via Low-Orbit Satellite Network", K. Brayer, Proceedings of the IEEE, November 1984 you will see an example. Sorry, this predates computerized papers so you need to go to the library, IEEE Xplore may have a scanned pdf available, I don't know. The routing algorithm is the same idea as the add a path to messages system as in DSR so I assume DSR can be used to strip out the algorithm. Also ZRP refers to a Route Accumulation Procedure which is again the same so it could be extracted to form a path calculator. Likewise ABR contains the path developer. Probably many others also. Ken Jon Zeeff wrote: > > > I hear from the military that they are mostly looking at arrays of > directional antennas with > switching systems to select the antenna used. Ie, imagine 8 yagi > antennas pointed > in different directions and a switch that allows any of them to be > selected. Advantages are > lower power, less interference, longer range. The disadvantage is > more complex routing > software - you also have to decide which antenna to use when. > > I tend to agree that it is the right way to go. What protocols do we > have to support this? > > > > > _______________________________________________ > manet mailing list > manet@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet -- Kenneth Brayer Fellow of the IEEE M/S B312 The MITRE Corporation 202 Burlington Road Bedford, MA 01730 e-mail: kb@mitre.org tele: 781-271-5254 fax: 781-271-2841 _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Nov 6 19:04:34 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA09350 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 19:04:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHu6r-0006ui-14 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 19:04:18 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA704HVa026573 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 19:04:17 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHu6q-0006uW-TM for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 19:04:16 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA09338 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 19:04:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHu6n-0003Ar-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 19:04:13 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHu6n-0003Ao-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 19:04:13 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHu6b-0006tQ-NY; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 19:04:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHu5p-0006sn-1z for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 19:03:13 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA09293 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 19:02:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHu5l-0003AR-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 19:03:09 -0500 Received: from blaze.cs.jhu.edu ([128.220.13.50]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHu5l-0003AO-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 19:03:09 -0500 Received: from Mercury (pelican.cs.jhu.edu [128.220.13.57]) by blaze.cs.jhu.edu (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA704HQQ016374; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 19:04:17 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: From: "dholmer" To: , "'Peter Pham'" Subject: RE: [Fwd: Re: [manet] Power Saving in 802.11] Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 19:03:08 -0500 Organization: Johns Hopkins University Message-ID: <000901c3a4c2$8751edd0$e6dddc80@Mercury> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-reply-to: <3FA9AAEA.20104@spri.levels.unisa.edu.au> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The turnaround time from Tx to Rx cited in the 802.11 spec deals with a somewhat different area than the power saving state transitions. A while back I downloaded a document from Intersil called "PRISM Power Management Modes" (application note AN9665) that was dated February 1997. This document details the power saving states of the original PRISM chipset, current consumption, and most interestingly the time needed to transition between these states. What I hadn't known before reading this document, was that there isn't just one "sleep" mode, but a number of different levels of power saving modes. Each mode corresponds to deactivating a larger and larger fraction of the radio hardware. The result of this is that "deeper" sleep modes consume less power, but take more time to wake up from because more hardware must be reinitialized and stabilized. Here is a basic summery of the operating modes they described: Mode Current Recovery Time Transmit (continuous) 488mA NA Receive (continuous) 287mA NA Power Saving Mode 1 190mA 1 us Power Saving Mode 2 70mA 25 us Power Saving Mode 3 60mA 2000 us (2 ms) Power Saving Mode 4 30mA 5000 us (5 ms) Going from an active mode to a power saving mode takes essentially zero time, but the time till fully active from a given power saving mode takes the time listed in the table above. The wakeup process seems to transition up through the power states, with some brief (10us) power spikes when transitions are made. In other words, if you are in power saving mode 4 (consuming 30mA) and are scheduled to be active at time T, you begin by transitioning to power saving mode 3 at T minus 5000 us. After a brief power spike, you'll be consuming 60 mA until T minus 2000 us when you transition to power saving mode 2. After another brief power spike you consume 70 mA until T minus 25 us when you go to power saving mode 1. Then you consume 190 mA until T minus 1 us when you make the final transition to active mode. A graphical representation of this is shown at the end of the document. It seems that as long as we are setting sleep times for >5ms then the turn on time isn't going to be much of a problem in actual implementations. Obviously these numbers will be different for cards with different chipsets, but the order of magnitude in timing should probably be the same. Now for your other question on how feasible is it to control the power saving state of an actual NIC card. I haven't had that much experience with attempting that yet. The real question is if that functionality is available at the driver level, or if it is only a firmware controlled feature. A quick search through the Linux open source orinoco driver (which actually supports many types of cards) yielded no promising leads for manual power control. However many options for enabling the default 802.11 PSM and tweaking its parameters were available. In a pinch, it may be possible to switch the card in and out of PSM with very long beacon intervals, but some in depth experimentation would be necessary to test this out. David Holmer PS I had trouble locating a link to the Intersil application note. If it has been removed, people can email me directly for a copy. -----Original Message----- From: manet-admin@ietf.org [mailto:manet-admin@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Peter Pham Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 8:59 PM To: Jean Lorchat; MANET Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: [manet] Power Saving in 802.11] Hi I am really interested in the time switch between the ``sleep'' state to other state. By the spec, the turn around time between Tx and Rx must be less than 5micro sec. However it does not state this. I guess it should be in order of few microsec right ? Although, it is easily modelled in ns2 or Glomosim, is it feasible in practice ?...What I mean is is that possible we can control the NIC card as that easy ?. For example, can we change the Tx power as any level as we wish at anytime. Can we set the card to sleep mode and turn it back on at anytime as we wish. Is there anyone has any info on this...I appreciate some ``real'' knowledge on this. Cheers Peter Pham Jean Lorchat wrote: > Hi Justin, > >> From your conclusion (quick read), it would seem that the first order >> radio model I quoted is reasonably accurate in terms of reception and >> transmission? > > > Although these are not my conclusions (I'm not the author), that's > what it seems. > However, I think that John is right when he states that we should > differenciate > so-called idle mode corresponding to "discarding a packet not intended > to us" and > real sleep mode that 802.11 hardware is capable of (namely PSP in > infrastructures). > But knowing this, you must also have a way to use it in adhoc mode > (and I don't know > whether adhoc PSP is a good solution for manets...) ? or do you mean > MAC modifications ? > > Jean > > > > _______________________________________________ > manet mailing list > manet@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet > > _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Nov 6 21:11:43 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA12816 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 21:11:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHw5s-0005HQ-EI for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 21:11:25 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA72BOFJ020290 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 21:11:24 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHw5s-0005HB-9i for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 21:11:24 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA12790 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 21:11:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHw5p-0004et-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 21:11:21 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHw5p-0004eq-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 21:11:21 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHw5W-0005Fh-2z; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 21:11:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHw55-0005FD-Uw for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 21:10:35 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA12764 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 21:10:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHw53-0004eX-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 21:10:33 -0500 Received: from ms01.net.ie.niigata-u.ac.jp ([133.35.156.1] ident=postfix) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHw52-0004eU-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 21:10:32 -0500 Received: from ms195.net.ie.niigata-u.ac.jp (ms195.net.ie.niigata-u.ac.jp [133.35.156.195]) by ms01.net.ie.niigata-u.ac.jp (Postfix) with SMTP id 9610B11DE6 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 11:09:45 +0900 (JST) Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 11:15:07 +0900 From: Sota Yoshida To: manet@ietf.org Subject: Re: [manet] Implementation code for OLSR in Glomosim Message-Id: <20031107111507.2035012d.syoshida@net.ie.niigata-u.ac.jp> In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.8.6 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-vine-linux) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Mouna and manet, I'm a student of Niigata Univ in Japan. I implemented a OLSR code(ver.11) in GloMoSim. If you need a olsr code , please send a E-mail first to syoshida@net.ie.niigata-u.ac.jp , mgoto@net.ie.niigata-u.ac.jp and mase@net.ie.niigata-u.ac.jp. Regards, gm and syoshida On Thu, 6 Nov 2003 09:39:28 +0100 "mouna.ayari" wrote: > Hi every body, > I want to know if there is any Implementation code for OLSR in Glomosim. If it exists please send to me this implementation code. > Thanks. > > > _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Nov 6 22:03:27 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA14083 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 22:03:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHwtx-0007dZ-Io for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 22:03:10 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA7339p0029356 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 22:03:09 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHwtx-0007dP-Fn for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 22:03:09 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA14075 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 22:02:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHwtu-0005I3-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 22:03:06 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHwtu-0005I0-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 22:03:06 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHwtp-0007cD-Sj; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 22:03:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHwtW-0007bu-JY for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 22:02:42 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA14071 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 22:02:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHwtR-0005Hx-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 22:02:37 -0500 Received: from mail11.ntu.edu.sg ([155.69.5.163]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHwtQ-0005Hs-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 22:02:37 -0500 Received: from mail01.student.main.ntu.edu.sg ([155.69.5.165]) by mail11.ntu.edu.sg with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5576); Fri, 7 Nov 2003 11:02:04 +0800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.6944.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [manet] Extension to 802.11 needed for MANET? Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 11:02:04 +0800 Message-ID: <3D565922795545468AE3E3DA2881BEA901F858F8@mail01.student.main.ntu.edu.sg> Thread-Topic: [manet] Extension to 802.11 needed for MANET? Thread-Index: AcOi0i2Ol7lHmBb3Q9SvJTm2HIVpbQCA49sQ From: "#LI ZHIFEI#" To: "Chi-Hsiang Yeh" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Nov 2003 03:02:04.0684 (UTC) FILETIME=[85D83CC0:01C3A4DB] Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, I would comment my understanding as follows: IEEE 802.11 operates well in a single-hop network (at least it can run = in the practical scenario though QoS can not be ensured). However, when IEEE 802.11 is adopted into multi-hop scenarios, the = performance is really not promising as shown by many papers. The key problem of IEEE 802.11 in multi-hop scenarios is that it cannot = cope with the inteference from neighborhood nodes in an efficient = manner. The inteference problem is in turn mainly due to the following = assumptions: single channel in the whole network, omi-directional = antenna,=20 and symetrical transmission power. That is why many work have introduced = multi-channel (or sometimes busy-tone channel), directional-antenna, and power control (from inteference point of view) into multi-hop ad hoc = networks. Regarding to these issues, please see the tutorial of=20 mobihoc 2002 given by professor Nitin Vaidya. However, when we use multi-channel , directional-antenna, and power = control, IEEE 802.11 may need considerable modifications or we may have to design totally new MAC protocols. Therefore, when we talk = about modifications of IEEE 802.11 in multi-hop sceanrios, there may be two options:=20 (1) extend IEEE 802.11 into multi-hop ad hoc networks while still = keeping assumptions of single channel,=20 omi-directional antenna, and symetrical transmission power? (2) extend IEEE 802.11 into multi-hop ad hoc networks with multi-channel = (or sometimes busy-tone channel), directional-antenna, and complex power control ? Now, my questions are: Is it technically possible for the above two = options? If yes, which one is better in the multi-hop ad hoc networks? Best regards Li zhifei -----Original Message----- From: manet-admin@ietf.org [mailto:manet-admin@ietf.org]On Behalf Of = Chi-Hsiang Yeh Sent: dimarts, 4 / novembre / 2003 20:57 To: manet@ietf.org Subject: [manet] Extension to 802.11 needed for MANET? Hi, I'll appreciate your opinions toward the following issue. In the literature, IEEE 802.11 is the most commonly assumed MAC protocol for ad hoc networks. Most ad hoc network testbeds are also built based on IEEE 802.11. However, some problems (e.g., concerning power control, interference, QoS, directional antennas, security, or radio efficiency) will be introduced when the MAC protocol of IEEE 802.11/11e is applied to multihop networking environments, leading to inefficiency and difficulties in QoS provisioning. Do you think we need an extension to the MAC protocols of IEEE 802.11 and 802.11e for ad hoc networks and multihop WLANs? =20 Chi-Hsiang Yeh ___________________________________________________________ Chi-Hsiang Yeh (Mr./Dr./Prof.) Dept. of Electrical & Computer Eng. Queen's University Kingston, Ontario, K7L 3N6 Canada =20 phone: +1 613-533-6368 fax: +1 613-533-6615 e-mail: chi-hsiang.yeh@ece.queensu.ca , yeh@ee.queensu.ca URL: http://www.ece.queensu.ca/hpages/faculty/yeh/ ___________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Nov 7 01:34:37 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA19294 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 01:34:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AI0CG-0007Ws-Lv for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 01:34:18 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA76YGMT028941 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 01:34:16 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AI0CG-0007Wi-Ei for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 01:34:16 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA19274 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 01:34:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AI0CD-0007VD-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 01:34:13 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AI0CC-0007VA-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 01:34:12 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AI0C1-0007Vc-Ka; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 01:34:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AI0BB-0007Ut-Nz for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 01:33:10 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA19250 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 01:32:58 -0500 (EST) From: lorchat@clarinet.u-strasbg.fr Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AI0B8-0007UV-00 for manet@ietf.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 01:33:06 -0500 Received: from clarinet.u-strasbg.fr ([130.79.90.157]) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AI0B7-0007US-00 for manet@ietf.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 01:33:06 -0500 Received: (qmail 22922 invoked from network); 7 Nov 2003 06:33:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO localhost) (130.79.90.157) by clarinet.u-strasbg.fr with SMTP; 7 Nov 2003 06:33:10 -0000 Received: from AStrasbourg-206-1-9-208.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr (AStrasbourg-206-1-9-208.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr [80.13.236.208]) by clarinet.u-strasbg.fr (IMP) with HTTP for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 07:33:10 +0100 Message-ID: <1068186790.3fab3ca620c91@clarinet.u-strasbg.fr> Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 07:33:10 +0100 To: dholmer@cs.jhu.edu Cc: manet@ietf.org, "'Peter Pham'" Subject: RE: [Fwd: Re: [manet] Power Saving in 802.11] References: <000901c3a4c2$8751edd0$e6dddc80@Mercury> In-Reply-To: <000901c3a4c2$8751edd0$e6dddc80@Mercury> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.2.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi all ! > Mode Current Recovery Time > Transmit (continuous) 488mA NA > Receive (continuous) 287mA NA > Power Saving Mode 1 190mA 1 us > Power Saving Mode 2 70mA 25 us > Power Saving Mode 3 60mA 2000 us (2 ms) > Power Saving Mode 4 30mA 5000 us (5 ms) very interesting... > > Going from an active mode to a power saving mode takes essentially zero > time, but the time till fully active from a given power saving mode > takes the time listed in the table above. The wakeup process seems to > transition up through the power states, with some brief (10us) power > spikes when transitions are made. In other words, if you are in power > saving mode 4 (consuming 30mA) and are scheduled to be active at time T, > you begin by transitioning to power saving mode 3 at T minus 5000 us. > After a brief power spike, you'll be consuming 60 mA until T minus 2000 > us when you transition to power saving mode 2. After another brief power > spike you consume 70 mA until T minus 25 us when you go to power saving > mode 1. Then you consume 190 mA until T minus 1 us when you make the > final transition to active mode. A graphical representation of this is > shown at the end of the document. > > Now for your other question on how feasible is it to control the power > saving state of an actual NIC card. I haven't had that much experience > with attempting that yet. The real question is if that functionality is > available at the driver level, or if it is only a firmware controlled > feature. A quick search through the Linux open source orinoco driver > (which actually supports many types of cards) yielded no promising leads However, there are cards with no firmware and almost open-source driver that look very promising, using Atheros chipset. See the madwifi project http://www.sourceforge.net/projects/madwifi. > for manual power control. However many options for enabling the default > 802.11 PSM and tweaking its parameters were available. In a pinch, it > may be possible to switch the card in and out of PSM with very long > beacon intervals, but some in depth experimentation would be necessary > to test this out. I think that this should work for adhoc, although an answer may be needed to the PS mode frame by the IBSS master depending on the firmware, not sure of this one though. As you said, experimentation needed... Jean _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Nov 7 11:03:36 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA20177 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 11:03:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AI94w-00059a-Nx for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 11:03:19 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA7G3IHG019806 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 11:03:18 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AI94w-00057P-Ii for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 11:03:18 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA20108 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 11:03:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AI94t-0006pk-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 11:03:15 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AI94t-0006ph-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 11:03:15 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AI94f-0004zS-AE; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 11:03:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AI93u-0004wK-GF for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 11:02:14 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA20078 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 11:02:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AI93r-0006p3-00 for manet@ietf.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 11:02:11 -0500 Received: from tomts20.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.74] helo=tomts20-srv.bellnexxia.net) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AI93r-0006p0-00 for manet@ietf.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 11:02:11 -0500 Received: from ordi ([64.228.192.151]) by tomts20-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with SMTP id <20031107160210.KGWM22704.tomts20-srv.bellnexxia.net@ordi> for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 11:02:10 -0500 Message-ID: <001e01c3a505$6a1e5c60$670cfea9@A8245.findquick.com> From: "Omar LAHLOU" To: Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 11:01:56 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [manet] Multipath routing implementation for GloMoSim Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All, Please, I am looking for AOMDV or any Multipath Routing Protocol implementation over GlomoSim to campare it to my routing protocol. Please if you have the source code I'll be grateful. Thanks. Omar. _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Nov 7 11:34:50 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA21163 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 11:34:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AI9Yv-00076w-32 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 11:34:31 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA7GYHVq027328 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 11:34:17 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AI9Yu-00076h-TS for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 11:34:16 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA21137 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 11:34:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AI9Yt-0007Dl-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 11:34:15 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AI9Yt-0007Di-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 11:34:15 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AI9Yf-0006ym-Dx; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 11:34:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AI9YQ-0006yY-MW for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 11:33:47 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA21123 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 11:33:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AI9YP-0007DU-00 for manet@ietf.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 11:33:45 -0500 Received: from glenlivet.cs.cornell.edu ([128.84.97.184]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AI9YP-0007DC-00 for manet@ietf.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 11:33:45 -0500 Received: from glenlivet.cs.cornell.edu (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by glenlivet.cs.cornell.edu (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hA7GXFiM011973; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 11:33:15 -0500 Received: from localhost (barr@localhost) by glenlivet.cs.cornell.edu (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id hA7GX8ek011969; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 11:33:08 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: glenlivet.cs.cornell.edu: barr owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 11:33:07 -0500 (EST) From: Rimon Barr Reply-To: Rimon Barr To: manet@ietf.org cc: Kenneth Brayer , Jangeun Jun , , , Mihail L Sichitiu In-Reply-To: <3FA16F1F.2090001@mitre.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [manet] scalable wireless simulation (was: Scalalbe DSDV code in ns-2?) Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Dear Jangeun Jun and others, As Naoumov already mentioned, the problem is first the simulator and then (possibly) the network protocol being simulated. I'm currently building a simulation system called JiST (for Java in Simulation Time) and a wireless network simulator on top of this system called SWANS (for Scalable Wireless Ad hoc Network Simulator), explicitly to tackle this problem of scalability. This work is a project at Cornell's Wireless Networking Lab: http://wnl.ece.cornell.edu. Based on my results, I believe that 100,000 nodes is a *very* realistic number and can it be simulated with accuracy in just a few hours even with a sequential simulator. My preliminary results show that JiST out-performs Glomosim, ns2 and even raw Parsec code by 2x-10x just in terms of event throughput. More importantly for this group, I have also run full wireless simulations in SWANS. SWANS uses an effective algorithm to simulate signal propagation similar to Naoumov's idea presented at MSWiM. It is improved to be insensitive to bin size. The result of efficient signal propagation, combined with the time and memory saving of the JiST approach, is that the total time to run a wireless simulation is linear with respect to the number of nodes (for fixed density and proportional traffic load) and I am running simulations with 100,000 nodes on commodity hardware (2.0GHz processor with less than 1Gb of RAM) within a few hours. I've also recently been able to show 1,000,000 nodes. We're currently working on more simulation components and hope to release the software in a few months. So, 100,000 nodes and up is certainly possible, even with a sequential simulator on commodity hardware -- you just need to do things efficiently. All the best, Rimon. -- Rimon Barr - Ph.D. candidate, Computer Science, Cornell University rimon-AT-acm.org - http://www.cs.cornell.edu/barr - Y!IM: batripler On Thu, 30 Oct 2003, Kenneth Brayer wrote: >Jangeun > >You have another problem. Mario Gerla of UCLA, CS Dept., gave a talk in >a panel discussion at Milcom 2002 pointing out that ns-2 is very slow >above a few hundred nodes. He suggested Qualnet as a simulator for large >networks and ran a 1000 node example of I think LANMAR above AODV(?). It >took minutes. He said ns-2 would run for like days(?). Mario can >probably give you better info. >Ken > >Jangeun Jun wrote: > >>Hi, >>Thank you Peter, thank you Mehran, I appreciate your prompt reponses. >>I agree that 100K is somewhat unrealistic number. >>Then, how about 1K? (or hopefully 10K?) >> >>I need to compare the performance of a new algorithm with existing ones >>(DSDV, DSR, AODV, TORA and so on...). And I don't think it's a good idea >>to compare the performance only up to 100 nodes because of DSDV. (Other >>models seem to be OK... Why only DSDV?) >> >>I agree that DSDV is not scalable by its nature. But that's what we want >>to simulate. The restriction of 100 nodes is really painful. I mean it >>can be difficult to tell the difference with only 100 nodes. >> >>Can anyone please let me know if there is *any* version of DSDV model >>written in ns-2 that overcame the 100-node limit? >>Or, has anyone tried to modify the ns-2's "dsdv.cc" code to enable >>multiple packets per update? >> >>Regards, >> >>-Jangeun Jun >> >>>Hi >>>I dont think that you can manage to run such scenario realistically. >>>If anyone did, I am really interested to know. >>>BTW, I heard someone has run a network of 10000 nodes using AODV... >>> >>>Cheers >>>Peter Pham >> >>On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 ma11@uow.edu.au wrote: >> >>>Hi Jangeun, >>> >>>I am not sure why you want run such a large number of nodes. >>>I dont think DSDV or any other proactive routing protocol >>>would scale to such a large number of nodes, as the number of >>>update packets would overwelm the network, not mension that >>>your simulator would crash or run for a very very long time >>>regardless of what simulation tool you use (NS, glomosim..etc). >>> >>>I dont know of any proposed MANET routing protocol >>>proven to run such a large network. >>> >>>Regards, >>>Mehran >>>-------------------------------- >>> >>>Dear sir or madam, >>> >>>I am a Ph.D. student at NC State University. >>>As it's clearly shown in ns-2's DSDV source code (dsdv.cc), >>>the current >>>ns-2 DSDV protocol is not scalable. The maximum number of >>>entries in an >>>update packet is around 100 and nodes cannot generate multiple >>>packets for one update. >>> >>>Since I need to run very large DSDV scenario (100,000 nodes), I am >>>looking for a *scalable* DSDV model written in ns-2. >>>Your tip will be greatly appreciated. >>> >>>(I posted this question on ns-2 mailing list but no answer. I hope >>>that there is an improved DSDV model done by an expert in this >>>manet >>>circle.) >>> >>>Regards, >>> >>>-Jangeun Jun _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Nov 7 12:28:34 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA25725 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 12:28:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AIAP9-00026J-Gk for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 12:28:16 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA7HSFgQ008069 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 12:28:15 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AIAP9-000264-CA for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 12:28:15 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA25654 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 12:28:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AIAP7-00003q-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 12:28:13 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AIAP7-00003n-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 12:28:13 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AIAOw-000226-46; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 12:28:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AIAOS-00021k-Jo for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 12:27:32 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA25633 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 12:27:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AIAOQ-00003J-00 for manet@ietf.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 12:27:30 -0500 Received: from nestor.nmsu.edu ([128.123.34.146] helo=mail.nmsu.edu) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AIAOP-00003A-00 for manet@ietf.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 12:27:30 -0500 Received: from PCMullen2 (pc-mullen-2.NMSU.Edu [128.123.245.103]) by mail.nmsu.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CC1D204B for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 10:27:15 -0700 (MST) From: "John Mullen" To: Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 10:27:08 -0700 Message-ID: <000001c3a554$6ab21f00$67f57b80@IEngr.ad.nmsu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <2a6aa62a8c5a.2a8c5a2a6aa6@drexel.edu> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [manet] A question of scope Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, We have been studying the MANET problem here and have come to the conclusion that there is a stochastic component that needs to be managed However, we are not sure where the management would best be addressed. In theory, the variability of received power could be managed at the MAC, link or some sub-MANET protocol layer, but we feel the best solutions will incorporate integrating the layers and at least some management by the MANET protocol. My first question is, would a MANET protocol that differs from others solely in the manner it deals with this problem of variability in the received signal be considered a distinct MANET protocol or would it be better to treat this as a modification that could be applied to a number of protocols. My second is, would this be an appropriate topic for this working group or would it be better addressed in some other forum. Thanks, John P. Mullen, Ph.D. Center for Stochastic Operations Modeling Industrial Engineering Department New Mexico State University Call: KH6DG Tel: (505) 646-2958 Email: jomullen@nmsu.edu _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Nov 7 13:44:33 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA28603 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 13:44:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AIBag-0006g9-Bz for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 13:44:14 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA7IiEGR025667 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 13:44:14 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AIBag-0006fu-7b for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 13:44:14 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA28573 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 13:44:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AIBad-00013x-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 13:44:12 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AIBad-00013u-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 13:44:11 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AIBaU-0006ea-Be; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 13:44:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AIBaJ-0006eF-Io for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 13:43:51 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA28563 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 13:43:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AIBaH-00013h-00 for manet@ietf.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 13:43:49 -0500 Received: from letters.cs.ucsb.edu ([128.111.41.13]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AIBaG-00013d-00 for manet@ietf.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 13:43:48 -0500 Received: from ella (ella [128.111.43.201]) by letters.cs.ucsb.edu (8.11.7+Sun/8.11.7) with ESMTP id hA7Ihk221712 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 10:43:46 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 10:43:46 -0800 (PST) From: "Krishna N. Ramachandran" X-Sender: krishna@ella To: manet@ietf.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [manet] AODV @ IETF Project Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Hi there, Mobile ad hoc networks have typically been deployed on a small scale in restricted environments. The AODV@IETF project aims to make available the first ever publicly-usable ad hoc network at the 58th IETF conference to be held in Minneapolis, MN, USA from November 9-14. The AODV network, scheduled to go live at 12:01 AM on the 10th of November, a Monday, will support Internet capable AODV implementations for the Microsoft Windows XP and Linux operating systems. Our goals behind the project are to demonstrate the capabilities of ad hoc networks to the general public and also to evaluate the performance of ad hoc networks when used on a large-scale in the real world. We welcome and encourage your participation in the ad hoc network at the IETF. Please visit the AODV@IETF website: http://moment.cs.ucsb.edu/aodv-ietf for more details. On the same website, we will very soon make available the software packages needed to join the ad hoc network. Please email me if you have any questions at krishna@cs.ucsb.edu. Thank you and looking forward to your participation, Krishna Ramachandran, UC Santa Barbara. _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Nov 7 16:14:44 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA07864 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 16:14:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AIDw1-0000Tr-7w for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 16:14:25 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA7LEP5Z001841 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 16:14:25 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AIDw1-0000TN-29 for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 16:14:25 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA07845 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 16:14:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AIDvy-0002zx-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 16:14:23 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AIDvy-0002zr-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 16:14:22 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AIDvf-0000Q5-2r; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 16:14:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AIDvY-0000Pd-JK for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 16:13:56 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA07833 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 16:13:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AIDvW-0002zg-00 for manet@ietf.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 16:13:54 -0500 Received: from marnier.ucs.louisiana.edu ([130.70.132.233] ident=root) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AIDvW-0002zd-00 for manet@ietf.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 16:13:54 -0500 Received: from louisiana.edu (nobody@pineau.ucs.louisiana.edu [130.70.132.229]) by marnier.ucs.louisiana.edu (8.11.3/8.11.3/ull-ucs-mx-host_1.6) with ESMTP id hA7LDro28863 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 15:13:53 -0600 (CST) From: "Faisal Md I" To: manet@ietf.org Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 16:13:53 -0500 Message-Id: <20031107210515.M36670@louisiana.edu> X-Mailer: Open WebMail 2.00 20030327 X-OriginatingIP: 130.70.82.184 (mif7474) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: [manet] QualNet Help need Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Hi! I would like to do some simulation using QualNet 3.5. In my simulation I would like to see what is the effect of selecting a route based on packet drop rate + bandwidth + delay. Usually, any link state protocol selects a route based on only hop count. If in a network there are multiple routes with same hop count available my simulation would select the one with best performance according to those three parameters. As I'm very new to QualNet, I'm kind of clueless one where to start. Can anyone please suggest me where to start. If you have appropriate code that would also be a great help. Thanks a lot. Ibrahim mif7474@louisiana.edu _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Nov 7 16:42:14 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA09136 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 16:42:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AIEM1-0003Px-Md for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 16:41:25 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA7LfHd0013131 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 16:41:17 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AIEM1-0003Pg-Dt for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 16:41:17 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA09067 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 16:41:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AIELz-0003Pt-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 16:41:15 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AIELy-0003Pq-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 16:41:14 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AIELl-0003IX-O8; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 16:41:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AIEKx-0003Hx-NU for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 16:40:12 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA09027 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 16:39:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AIEKv-0003P6-00 for manet@ietf.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 16:40:09 -0500 Received: from 205-158-62-67.outblaze.com ([205.158.62.67] helo=spf13.us4.outblaze.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AIEKu-0003Oq-00 for manet@ietf.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 16:40:08 -0500 Received: from 205-158-62-68.outblaze.com (205-158-62-68.outblaze.com [205.158.62.68]) by spf13.us4.outblaze.com (Postfix) with QMQP id 31A6418023D4 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 21:39:37 +0000 (GMT) Received: (qmail 32183 invoked from network); 7 Nov 2003 21:39:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ws1-4.us4.outblaze.com) (205.158.62.50) by 205-158-62-153.outblaze.com with SMTP; 7 Nov 2003 21:39:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 59497 invoked by uid 1001); 7 Nov 2003 21:39:30 -0000 Message-ID: <20031107213930.59495.qmail@mail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.41 (Entity 5.404) Received: from [65.199.136.17] by ws1-4.us4.outblaze.com with http for ielghand@mail.com; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 16:39:30 -0500 From: "iman elghandour" To: "Rimon Barr" , manet@ietf.org Cc: "Kenneth Brayer" , "Jangeun Jun" , ma11@uow.edu.au, ppham@spri.levels.unisa.edu.au, "Mihail L Sichitiu" Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 16:39:30 -0500 Subject: Re: [manet] scalable wireless simulation (was: Scalalbe DSDV code in ns-2?) X-Originating-Ip: 65.199.136.17 X-Originating-Server: ws1-4.us4.outblaze.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ietf.org id QAA09028 Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, woow. It =91s really amazing to simulate a 1,000,000 node and so it encou= raged me to ask this question.. my question is what about the reality, ca= n I have this number of nodes connected in an ad hoc network, I think the= re is no real life implementation but theoretically is it possible??!! I was thinking of another thing too, what about simulating the network to= be composed of smaller separated sub-networks,. Have any one considered = this simulation in his work. I think it will be important to consider it = in service discovery or file sharing scenarios. Kind regards, Iman. ----- Original Message ----- From: Rimon Barr Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 11:33:07 -0500 (EST) To: manet@ietf.org Subject: [manet] scalable wireless simulation (was: Scalalbe DSDV code in= ns-2?) > Dear Jangeun Jun and others, >=20 > As Naoumov already mentioned, the problem is first the simulator and > then (possibly) the network protocol being simulated. I'm currently > building a simulation system called JiST (for Java in Simulation Time) > and a wireless network simulator on top of this system called SWANS (fo= r > Scalable Wireless Ad hoc Network Simulator), explicitly to tackle this > problem of scalability. This work is a project at Cornell's Wireless > Networking Lab: http://wnl.ece.cornell.edu. Based on my results, I > believe that 100,000 nodes is a *very* realistic number and can it be > simulated with accuracy in just a few hours even with a sequential > simulator. My preliminary results show that JiST out-performs Glomosim, > ns2 and even raw Parsec code by 2x-10x just in terms of event > throughput. More importantly for this group, I have also run full > wireless simulations in SWANS. SWANS uses an effective algorithm to > simulate signal propagation similar to Naoumov's idea presented at > MSWiM. It is improved to be insensitive to bin size. The result of > efficient signal propagation, combined with the time and memory saving > of the JiST approach, is that the total time to run a wireless > simulation is linear with respect to the number of nodes (for fixed > density and proportional traffic load) and I am running simulations wit= h > 100,000 nodes on commodity hardware (2.0GHz processor with less than 1G= b > of RAM) within a few hours. I've also recently been able to show > 1,000,000 nodes. We're currently working on more simulation components > and hope to release the software in a few months. So, 100,000 nodes and > up is certainly possible, even with a sequential simulator on commodity > hardware -- you just need to do things efficiently. >=20 > All the best, > Rimon. > --=20 > Rimon Barr - Ph.D. candidate, Computer Science, Cornell University > rimon-AT-acm.org - http://www.cs.cornell.edu/barr - Y!IM: batripler >=20 > On Thu, 30 Oct 2003, Kenneth Brayer wrote: >=20 > >Jangeun > > > >You have another problem. Mario Gerla of UCLA, CS Dept., gave a talk i= n > >a panel discussion at Milcom 2002 pointing out that ns-2 is very slow > >above a few hundred nodes. He suggested Qualnet as a simulator for lar= ge > >networks and ran a 1000 node example of I think LANMAR above AODV(?). = It > >took minutes. He said ns-2 would run for like days(?). Mario can > >probably give you better info. > >Ken > > > >Jangeun Jun wrote: > > > >>Hi, > >>Thank you Peter, thank you Mehran, I appreciate your prompt reponses. > >>I agree that 100K is somewhat unrealistic number. > >>Then, how about 1K? (or hopefully 10K?) > >> > >>I need to compare the performance of a new algorithm with existing on= es > >>(DSDV, DSR, AODV, TORA and so on...). And I don't think it's a good i= dea > >>to compare the performance only up to 100 nodes because of DSDV. (Oth= er > >>models seem to be OK... Why only DSDV?) > >> > >>I agree that DSDV is not scalable by its nature. But that's what we w= ant > >>to simulate. The restriction of 100 nodes is really painful. I mean i= t > >>can be difficult to tell the difference with only 100 nodes. > >> > >>Can anyone please let me know if there is *any* version of DSDV model > >>written in ns-2 that overcame the 100-node limit? > >>Or, has anyone tried to modify the ns-2's "dsdv.cc" code to enable > >>multiple packets per update? > >> > >>Regards, > >> > >>-Jangeun Jun > >> > >>>Hi > >>>I dont think that you can manage to run such scenario realistically. > >>>If anyone did, I am really interested to know. > >>>BTW, I heard someone has run a network of 10000 nodes using AODV... > >>> > >>>Cheers > >>>Peter Pham > >> > >>On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 ma11@uow.edu.au wrote: > >> > >>>Hi Jangeun, > >>> > >>>I am not sure why you want run such a large number of nodes. > >>>I dont think DSDV or any other proactive routing protocol > >>>would scale to such a large number of nodes, as the number of > >>>update packets would overwelm the network, not mension that > >>>your simulator would crash or run for a very very long time > >>>regardless of what simulation tool you use (NS, glomosim..etc). > >>> > >>>I dont know of any proposed MANET routing protocol > >>>proven to run such a large network. > >>> > >>>Regards, > >>>Mehran > >>>-------------------------------- > >>> > >>>Dear sir or madam, > >>> > >>>I am a Ph.D. student at NC State University. > >>>As it's clearly shown in ns-2's DSDV source code (dsdv.cc), > >>>the current > >>>ns-2 DSDV protocol is not scalable. The maximum number of > >>>entries in an > >>>update packet is around 100 and nodes cannot generate multiple > >>>packets for one update. > >>> > >>>Since I need to run very large DSDV scenario (100,000 nodes), I am > >>>looking for a *scalable* DSDV model written in ns-2. > >>>Your tip will be greatly appreciated. > >>> > >>>(I posted this question on ns-2 mailing list but no answer. I hope > >>>that there is an improved DSDV model done by an expert in this > >>>manet > >>>circle.) > >>> > >>>Regards, > >>> > >>>-Jangeun Jun >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > manet mailing list > manet@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet >=20 --=20 __________________________________________________________ Sign-up for your own personalized E-mail at Mail.com http://www.mail.com/?sr=3Dsignup Search Smarter - get the new eXact Search Bar for free! http://www.exactsearchbar.com/ _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Nov 7 17:04:08 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA07863 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 16:14:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AIDw1-0000Td-4k for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 16:14:25 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA7LEPqX001826 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 16:14:25 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AIDw0-0000TM-W9 for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 16:14:25 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA07846 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 16:14:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AIDvy-000300-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 16:14:23 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AIDvy-0002zs-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 16:14:22 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AIDvd-0000Pv-Se; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 16:14:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AIDvJ-0000PS-ES for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 16:13:41 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA07830 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 16:13:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AIDvG-0002za-00 for manet@ietf.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 16:13:38 -0500 Received: from marnier.ucs.louisiana.edu ([130.70.132.233] ident=root) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AIDvF-0002zX-00 for manet@ietf.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 16:13:37 -0500 Received: from louisiana.edu (nobody@pineau.ucs.louisiana.edu [130.70.132.229]) by marnier.ucs.louisiana.edu (8.11.3/8.11.3/ull-ucs-mx-host_1.6) with ESMTP id hA7LDao28844 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 15:13:36 -0600 (CST) From: "Faisal Md I" To: manet@ietf.org Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 16:13:36 -0500 Message-Id: <20031107210515.M36670@louisiana.edu> X-Mailer: Open WebMail 2.00 20030327 X-OriginatingIP: 130.70.82.184 (mif7474) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: [manet] QualNet Help need Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Hi! I would like to do some simulation using QualNet 3.5. In my simulation I would like to see what is the effect of selecting a route based on packet drop rate + bandwidth + delay. Usually, any link state protocol selects a route based on only hop count. If in a network there are multiple routes with same hop count available my simulation would select the one with best performance according to those three parameters. As I'm very new to QualNet, I'm kind of clueless one where to start. Can anyone please suggest me where to start. If you have appropriate code that would also be a great help. Thanks a lot. Ibrahim mif7474@louisiana.edu _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Sun Nov 9 16:27:36 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA10959 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 16:27:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AIx5a-0006JE-VY for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 16:27:19 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA9LRI7o024246 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 16:27:18 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AIx5a-0006Iz-RB for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 16:27:18 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA10945 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 16:27:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AIx5Y-0007Kj-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 16:27:16 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AIx5Y-0007Kg-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 16:27:16 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AIx5I-0006Er-MJ; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 16:27:00 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AIx50-0006ET-2v for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 16:26:42 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA10924 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 16:26:28 -0500 (EST) From: i24@uow.edu.au Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AIx4y-0007KJ-00 for manet@ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 16:26:40 -0500 Received: from beru.its.uow.edu.au ([130.130.68.31]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AIx4x-0007KB-00 for manet@ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 16:26:39 -0500 Received: from beru (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by beru.its.uow.edu.au (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA9LQapB004597 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 08:26:36 +1100 (EST) Received: from inti.its.uow.edu.au ([130.130.37.4]) by beru.its.uow.edu.au (MailMonitor for SMTP v1.2.2 ) ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 08:26:36 +1100 (EST) Received: (from sendmail@localhost) by inti.its.uow.edu.au (8.12.9/8.12.9) id hA9LQaFF019473 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 08:26:36 +1100 (EST) Received: from mirapoint.uow.edu.au (mirapoint.uow.edu.au[130.130.68.27]) by inti.its.uow.edu.au (UWSMTPD 1.5.2) with ESMTP id 3059979.19461; Monday, 10 November 2003 08:26:35 +1100 Received: from mirapoint.uow.edu.au (localhost.uow.edu.au [127.0.0.1]) by mirapoint.uow.edu.au (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.3.7-GR) with ESMTP id ADV77120; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 08:26:33 +1100 (EST) Received: from 130.130.10.111 by mirapoint.uow.edu.au (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.3.7-GR) with HTTP/1.1; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 08:26:33 +1100 Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 08:26:33 +1100 To: manet@ietf.org X-Mailer: Webmail Mirapoint Direct 3.3.7-GR MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <54def5c6.e03d27b4.8282200@mirapoint.uow.edu.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-MessageID: 3059979.19461 X-EnvelopeFrom: 3059979.19461 X-EnvelopeTo: 3059979.19461 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [manet] Request for OFDM and Shadowing for ns2 Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi there, I am a new ns2 user, and at the moment i am using ns2 version 6a. I just wondering do anyone has OFDM modulation code for ns2, and shadowing code for IEEE 802.11a for ns2? Many thanks for your assistance in advance, Regards, Irwan _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Sun Nov 9 19:14:40 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA19681 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 19:14:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AIzhH-0000vg-6D for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 19:14:23 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAA0EN8h003566 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 19:14:23 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AIzhH-0000vR-1s for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 19:14:23 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA19670 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 19:14:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AIzhF-0002YP-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 19:14:21 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AIzhF-0002YM-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 19:14:21 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AIzgv-0000uK-LA; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 19:14:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AIzgi-0000t7-Pt for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 19:13:48 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA19664 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 19:13:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AIzgh-0002YC-00 for manet@ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 19:13:47 -0500 Received: from patty.levels.unisa.edu.au ([130.220.36.156]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AIzgg-0002Y9-00 for manet@ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 19:13:46 -0500 Received: from spri.levels.unisa.edu.au (morpheus [172.17.0.143]) by patty.levels.unisa.edu.au (8.12.10/8.12.2) with ESMTP id hAA0Dbv1016437 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 10:43:37 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <3FAED82E.7020007@spri.levels.unisa.edu.au> Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 10:43:34 +1030 From: Peter Pham User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020830 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: MANET Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [manet] Question on 802.11DCF Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all I read the standard of 802.11 and it is confusing on how you interpret the standard. If the channel is already idle for a long-long time (low data rate), and the mobile node has a packet for transmission, will the mobile nodes send the packet after a DIFS or DIFS + Deferal time ? From the standard it said that "if the medium is busy, it will sense the channel until the channel is idle for a DIFS and it performs a additional deferal time". It does not state what to do when the medium is idle. Do the node need to do a deferal backoff in this case ? does the node alway have to to defer after a DIFS ? Can you please provide some insight here. Best regards Peter Pham _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Sun Nov 9 19:41:35 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA20189 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 19:41:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJ07I-0002IK-QA for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 19:41:16 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAA0fGsI008814 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 19:41:16 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJ07I-0002I5-MV for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 19:41:16 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA20158 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 19:41:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJ07G-0002wX-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 19:41:14 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJ07G-0002wU-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 19:41:14 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJ074-0002Bl-FS; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 19:41:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJ06O-0002B5-G3 for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 19:40:20 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA20138 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 19:40:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJ06M-0002w7-00 for manet@ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 19:40:18 -0500 Received: from popeye.snu.ac.kr ([147.46.240.214]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJ06L-0002w4-00 for manet@ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 19:40:18 -0500 Received: from oahu (oahu [147.46.240.228]) by popeye.snu.ac.kr (8.12.2/8.12.2) with SMTP id hAA0dxTm009359; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 09:39:59 +0900 Message-ID: <006f01c3a723$307df180$e4f02e93@oahu> From: "Joon Yoo" To: "Peter Pham" Cc: References: <3FAED82E.7020007@spri.levels.unisa.edu.au> Subject: Re: [manet] Question on 802.11DCF Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 09:40:07 +0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 DQotLS0tLSBPcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlIC0tLS0tIA0KRnJvbTogIlBldGVyIFBoYW0iIDxwcGhh bUBzcHJpLmxldmVscy51bmlzYS5lZHUuYXU+DQpUbzogIk1BTkVUIiA8bWFuZXRAaWV0Zi5vcmc+ DQpTZW50OiBNb25kYXksIE5vdmVtYmVyIDEwLCAyMDAzIDk6MTMgQU0NClN1YmplY3Q6IFttYW5l dF0gUXVlc3Rpb24gb24gODAyLjExRENGDQoNCg0KPiBIaSBhbGwNCj4gDQo+IEkgcmVhZCB0aGUg c3RhbmRhcmQgb2YgODAyLjExIGFuZCBpdCBpcyBjb25mdXNpbmcgb24gaG93IHlvdSBpbnRlcnBy ZXQgDQo+IHRoZSBzdGFuZGFyZC4NCj4gSWYgdGhlIGNoYW5uZWwgaXMgIGFscmVhZHkgaWRsZSBm b3IgYSBsb25nLWxvbmcgdGltZSAobG93IGRhdGEgcmF0ZSksIA0KPiBhbmQgdGhlIG1vYmlsZSBu b2RlIGhhcyBhIHBhY2tldCBmb3IgdHJhbnNtaXNzaW9uLCB3aWxsIHRoZSBtb2JpbGUgbm9kZXMg DQo+IHNlbmQgdGhlIHBhY2tldCBhZnRlciBhIERJRlMgIG9yIERJRlMgKyBEZWZlcmFsIHRpbWUg Pw0KPiAgRnJvbSB0aGUgc3RhbmRhcmQgaXQgc2FpZCB0aGF0ICJpZiB0aGUgbWVkaXVtIGlzIGJ1 c3ksIGl0IHdpbGwgc2Vuc2UgDQo+IHRoZSBjaGFubmVsIHVudGlsICB0aGUgY2hhbm5lbCBpcyBp ZGxlIGZvciBhIERJRlMgYW5kIGl0IHBlcmZvcm1zIGEgDQo+IGFkZGl0aW9uYWwgZGVmZXJhbCB0 aW1lIi4gSXQgZG9lcyBub3Qgc3RhdGUgd2hhdCB0byBkbyB3aGVuIHRoZSBtZWRpdW0gDQo+IGlz IGlkbGUuIERvIHRoZSBub2RlIG5lZWQgdG8gZG8gYSBkZWZlcmFsIGJhY2tvZmYgaW4gdGhpcyBj YXNlID8gZG9lcyANCg0KSW4gdGhpcyBjYXNlLCB3aGVyZSB0aGUgbm9kZSBoYXMgYmVlbiBzZW5z aW5nIHRoZSBjaGFubmVsIGFzIGlkbGUgYmVmb3JlIHRoZSBwYWNrZXQgYXJyaXZhbCwgdGhlIG5v ZGUgd2lsbCB3YWl0IGZvciBhIERJRlMgcGVyaW9kIGFuZCB0cmFuc21pdCB0aGUgcGFja2V0IHdp dGhvdXQgYW55IGJhY2tvZmYgcHJvY2VkdXJlcyAoZXF1aXZhbGVudCB0byBiYWNrb2ZmIHZhbHVl PTApLiBUaGlzIGlzIGNhbGxlZCAiSW1tZWRpYXRlIEFjY2VzcyIuICBJbiBvdGhlciB3b3Jkcywg d2hlbiBubyBvbi1nb2luZyBiYWNrb2ZmIGFuZCBvdmVyIERJRlMgaWRsZSB0aW1lLCBhIGZyYW1l IGNhbiBiZSB0cmFuc21pdHRlZCBpbW1lZGlhdGxleS4NCg0KDQo+IHRoZSBub2RlIGFsd2F5IGhh dmUgdG8gdG8gZGVmZXIgYWZ0ZXIgYSBESUZTID8NCj4gDQoNCkluIGNhc2Ugb2YgRENGLCB5ZXMu IA0KDQo+IENhbiB5b3UgcGxlYXNlIHByb3ZpZGUgc29tZSBpbnNpZ2h0IGhlcmUuDQo+IA0KPiBC ZXN0IHJlZ2FyZHMNCj4gUGV0ZXIgUGhhbQ0KPiANCj4gDQo+IF9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQo+IG1hbmV0IG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdA0KPiBtYW5l dEBpZXRmLm9yZw0KPiBodHRwczovL3d3dzEuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9tYW5l dA0KPiANCg== _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Sun Nov 9 23:41:39 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA24984 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 23:41:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJ3rd-0003wn-I3 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 23:41:22 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAA4fLGZ015170 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 23:41:21 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJ3rd-0003wb-Dl for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 23:41:21 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA24954 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 23:41:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJ3ra-0005zh-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 23:41:18 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJ3ra-0005ze-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 23:41:18 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJ3rL-0003qP-B8; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 23:41:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJ3qg-0003p7-Dy for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 23:40:24 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA24933 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 23:40:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJ3qe-0005z8-00 for manet@ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 23:40:20 -0500 Received: from patty.levels.unisa.edu.au ([130.220.36.156]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJ3qd-0005z4-00 for manet@ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 23:40:19 -0500 Received: from spri.levels.unisa.edu.au (morpheus [172.17.0.143]) by patty.levels.unisa.edu.au (8.12.10/8.12.2) with ESMTP id hAA4eDv1015130; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 15:10:17 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <3FAF16A8.50205@spri.levels.unisa.edu.au> Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 15:10:08 +1030 From: Peter Pham User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020830 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Joon Yoo CC: manet@ietf.org Subject: Re: [manet] Question on 802.11DCF References: <3FAED82E.7020007@spri.levels.unisa.edu.au> <006f01c3a723$307df180$e4f02e93@oahu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi There are two terms that must be distinguished here. Defer and Backoff. Is it true that after every DIFS we perform a Defer ? How Defer and Backoff interact ? Let discuss in this scenario. After a successful transmission, the sender receive and ACK. It will perform a backoff (this one should be called backoff ? right)... After this backoff, there are two cases here 1) if there is no packet for transmission and the channel is idle. The node goes to idle right ?....Once the node in idle state and the channel is idle and there is a packet arrival ? the node performs a DIFS + defer or just DIFS before sending the packet ??? 2) if there is a packet for transmission and the channel is idle, it performs are DIFS + defer or just a DIFS ??? This is where I find the standard confused here ... Cheers Peter Pham Joon Yoo wrote: >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Peter Pham" >To: "MANET" >Sent: Monday, November 10, 2003 9:13 AM >Subject: [manet] Question on 802.11DCF > > > > >>Hi all >> >>I read the standard of 802.11 and it is confusing on how you interpret >>the standard. >>If the channel is already idle for a long-long time (low data rate), >>and the mobile node has a packet for transmission, will the mobile nodes >>send the packet after a DIFS or DIFS + Deferal time ? >> From the standard it said that "if the medium is busy, it will sense >>the channel until the channel is idle for a DIFS and it performs a >>additional deferal time". It does not state what to do when the medium >>is idle. Do the node need to do a deferal backoff in this case ? does >> >> > >In this case, where the node has been sensing the channel as idle before the packet arrival, the node will wait for a DIFS period and transmit the packet without any backoff procedures (equivalent to backoff value=0). This is called "Immediate Access". In other words, when no on-going backoff and over DIFS idle time, a frame can be transmitted immediatley. > > > > >>the node alway have to to defer after a DIFS ? >> >> >> > >In case of DCF, yes. > > > >>Can you please provide some insight here. >> >>Best regards >>Peter Pham >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>manet mailing list >>manet@ietf.org >>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet >> >> >> > > > > > _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 10 00:08:34 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA25669 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 00:08:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJ4Hh-0005Ml-Kv for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 00:08:18 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAA58H3E020618 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 00:08:17 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJ4Hh-0005MT-HH for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 00:08:17 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA25648 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 00:08:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJ4Hf-0006Qu-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 00:08:15 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJ4He-0006Qr-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 00:08:14 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJ4HS-0005GU-Oj; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 00:08:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJ4Gm-000586-0e for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 00:07:20 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA25644 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 00:07:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJ4Gj-0006QA-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 00:07:17 -0500 Received: from post5.inre.asu.edu ([129.219.110.120]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJ4Gj-0006Q6-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 00:07:17 -0500 Received: from conversion.post5.inre.asu.edu by asu.edu (PMDF V6.1-1X6 #30769) id <0HO400601E3RYK@asu.edu> for manet@ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 22:04:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.asu.edu (smtp.asu.edu [129.219.110.107]) by asu.edu (PMDF V6.1-1X6 #30769) with ESMTP id <0HO40067KE3REZ@asu.edu>; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 22:04:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from wind1.eas.asu.edu (wind1.eas.asu.edu [149.169.39.143]) by smtp.asu.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10/asu_smtp_relay,nullclient,tcp_wrapped) with ESMTP id hAA54bS8028258; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 22:04:38 -0700 (MST) Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2003 22:04:40 -0700 From: Dong Zheng Subject: Re: [manet] Question on 802.11DCF In-reply-to: <3FAF16A8.50205@spri.levels.unisa.edu.au> To: Peter Pham Cc: Joon Yoo , manet@ietf.org Message-id: <1068440681.29000.21.camel@wind1> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.0.8 (1.0.8-9.7x.1) Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <3FAED82E.7020007@spri.levels.unisa.edu.au> <006f01c3a723$307df180$e4f02e93@oahu> <3FAF16A8.50205@spri.levels.unisa.edu.au> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Sun, 2003-11-09 at 21:40, Peter Pham wrote: > Hi > There are two terms that must be distinguished here. Defer and Backoff. > > Is it true that after every DIFS we perform a Defer ? > How Defer and Backoff interact ? > > Let discuss in this scenario. After a successful transmission, the > sender receive and ACK. It will perform a backoff (this one should be > called backoff ? right)... No need if there is no packet in the output queue and the BO (backoff) is simply left as 0. However, if the queue is not empty, the BO will be set and it will compete for the channel again. If somehow later it has a packet to deliver, it will first check if the channel is idle and NAV ?= 0. If not, it will wait for the channel to become idle again, set the BO and compete for the channel after DIFS. Otherwise, it will just wait for DIFS, and if no one else transmits before the DIFS period expires, it will transmit the packet immediately after the DIFS period. Hope this can help you, correct me if I am wrong. -Dong After this backoff, there are two cases here > 1) if there is no packet for transmission and the channel is idle. The > node goes to idle right ?.... Once the node in idle state and the channel > is idle and there is a packet arrival ? the node performs a DIFS + defer > or just DIFS before sending the packet ??? > 2) if there is a packet for transmission and the channel is idle, it > performs are DIFS + defer or just a DIFS ??? > > This is where I find the standard confused here ... > > Cheers > Peter Pham > > Joon Yoo wrote: > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Peter Pham" > >To: "MANET" > >Sent: Monday, November 10, 2003 9:13 AM > >Subject: [manet] Question on 802.11DCF > > > > > > > > > >>Hi all > >> > >>I read the standard of 802.11 and it is confusing on how you interpret > >>the standard. > >>If the channel is already idle for a long-long time (low data rate), > >>and the mobile node has a packet for transmission, will the mobile nodes > >>send the packet after a DIFS or DIFS + Deferal time ? > >> From the standard it said that "if the medium is busy, it will sense > >>the channel until the channel is idle for a DIFS and it performs a > >>additional deferal time". It does not state what to do when the medium > >>is idle. Do the node need to do a deferal backoff in this case ? does > >> > >> > > > >In this case, where the node has been sensing the channel as idle before the packet arrival, the node will wait for a DIFS period and transmit the packet without any backoff procedures (equivalent to backoff value=0). This is called "Immediate Access". In other words, when no on-going backoff and over DIFS idle time, a frame can be transmitted immediatley. > > > > > > > > > >>the node alway have to to defer after a DIFS ? > >> > >> > >> > > > >In case of DCF, yes. > > > > > > > >>Can you please provide some insight here. > >> > >>Best regards > >>Peter Pham > >> > >> > >>_______________________________________________ > >>manet mailing list > >>manet@ietf.org > >>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > manet mailing list > manet@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 10 01:00:44 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA26782 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 01:00:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJ568-0008L0-DM for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 01:00:25 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAA60OYn032049 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 01:00:24 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJ568-0008Kq-7L for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 01:00:24 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA26764 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 01:00:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJ565-0007EK-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 01:00:21 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJ564-0007EH-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 01:00:20 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJ55o-0008GR-1C; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 01:00:04 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJ55k-0008Fq-SC for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 01:00:00 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA26744 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 00:59:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJ55h-0007EB-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 00:59:57 -0500 Received: from swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.120.123]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJ55h-0007E8-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 00:59:57 -0500 Received: from user-2ivfljh.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.247.214.113] helo=erg.sri.com) by swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AJ55g-0003c1-00; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 21:59:56 -0800 Message-ID: <3FAF2958.7090102@erg.sri.com> Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2003 21:59:52 -0800 From: Richard Ogier User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011128 Netscape6/6.2.1 (emach0202) X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: manet@ietf.org CC: ogier@erg.sri.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [manet] OSPF extensions for manets Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I would like to offer some comments on: draft-spagnolo-manet-ospf-wireless-interface-00.txt and to compare it with the solution in http://www.erg.sri.com/projects/tbrpf/docs/draft-ogier-manet-ospf-extension-00.txt I will refer to these documents as [Spagnolo03] and [Ogier03], respectively. I am not saying that either of these solutions is better than the other, and hopefully better solutions (or suggestions for improving these) will be proposed after the problem statement is accepted. The draft [Spagnolo03] extends OSPF to manet interfaces by using the MPR flooding mechanism of OSPF to flood LSAs. I.e., it proposes to list MPRs in Hello messages, and to disseminate LSAs using unreliable, periodic flooding via MPRs. Most of my comments can be grouped into the following three questions: 1. Are MPRs the best choice for the relay nodes used for flooding LSAs? 2. Is it better to use reliable vs. unreliable flooding of LSAs? 3. Should we try to minimize the changes to OSPF? I will discuss the third question first. It seems to me that minimizing the changes to OSPF would make the extension more acceptable to the OSPF working group. For example, as discussed below and in [Ogier03], it is possible to avoid introducing any new packet formats, e.g., to use the existing format for OSPF Hello packets, and to avoid introducing a new flooding mechanism that requires a new sequence number for suppressing duplicates, etc. OSPF already has a mechanism for suppressing duplicates during flooding, and it is possible to use this mechanism. Below I quote a set of bullets from [Spagnolo03] summarizing their proposed OSPF extension, and for comparison, after each bullet I summarize how the solution in [Ogier03] is different. (S indicates [Spagnolo03] and O indicates [Ogier03].) S defines a new Wireless Hello message. The new message adds an MPR list and eliminate backup and designated router fields; O Does not require any change to the OSPF Hello packet format. The Designated Router field may indicate a CDS (connected dominating set) node instead of a DR. S implements the MPR selection algorithm and rules for reflood- ing LSAs; O Implements an algorithm by which nodes select themselves to be a CDS node or an MPR. S efficiently floods LSAs periodically using a Link State Flood (LSF) message; O Uses an efficient method for reliable flooding based on periodic Database Description packets, using existing OSPF message types. S eliminates the formation of full adjacencies on wireless interfaces; all neighbor states beyond 2-Way are not reached, and no database synchronization is performed; and O Same. S includes a mechanism for suppressing the redundant flooding of "outside" LSAs (LSAs originated external to the wireless sub- net). O A similar mechanism for suppressing "outside" LSAs can be employed. MPRs seem to be a popular method for flooding in manets, but we need to ask whether MPRs are really the best way to flood LSAs in an OSPF extension. Also, there are different ways to compute MPRs: in OLSR, nodes select a subset of neighbors as MPRs, but it is also possible for nodes to select themselves as MPRs. If MPRs are used only to flood LSAs, then a CDS is sufficent for this purpose and has the following advantages. Most of these advantages are also shared by self-selected MPRs (which do not require nodes to advertise MPRs in Hellos). 1. OSPF Hello packets can be used without modification (the DR field would indicate a CDS node, which can be the sending node itself). Each node decides whether it is a CDS node (or an MPR) based on Hellos and LSAs originated by neighbors. 2. As shown in reference [Lin03] of [Ogier03], and also by my own simulations, using a CDS or self-selected MPR results in a relay node set (set of nodes that relay a given LSA) that is smaller than or about the same size as using MPRs (depending on the scenario). 3. Using a CDS is simpler, since the relay node set is independent of the LSA originator. And the decision to forward a given LSA/LSU does not depend on which neighbor it was received from. 4. Using a CDS or self-selected MPRs can result in faster recovery from link failures, since a node does not have to wait for a neighbor to select it. In fact, a CDS node or MPR is analogous to a Designated Router (DR), and DRs select themselves in OSPF. The solution described in [Spagnolo03] uses unreliable, periodic flooding, which is quite different from the OSPF flooding mechanism, and requires a new packet type (LSF) that includes a new sequence number used to detect duplicates. The solution described in [Ogier03] uses a reliable flooding mechanism that does not require a new packet type, and uses the same mechanism as OSPF to detect duplicates (based on the LSA sequence number in the database). This flooding mechanism makes efficient use of the Database Description (DD) and LS Request packets already defined in OSPF. Instead of each node exchanging DD packets separately with each new neighbor, each relay node (e.g., CDS node) periodically broadcasts to its neighbors (on each manet interface) a set of DD packets, which describes the set of LSAs that it is currently responsible for reporting (by including the LSA headers with sequence numbers). This is similar to the periodic Complete Sequence Numbers (CSN) packets of IS-IS. If a node i detects via a DD packet that a neighbor CDS node j has a more recent instance of some LSA, then node i can request the LSA by sending a LS Request packet to j. More details can be found in [Ogier03] (link given above), including an option for differential LSAs. As I mentioned, I am not saying that this is the best solution. It is only work in progress, and hopefully other solutions will be proposed. There are many choices to make, such as whether to use a CDS, and if so, what algorithm to use. Comments and suggestions are welcome. Regards, Richard _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 10 10:32:46 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA24608 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 10:32:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJE1l-0001yY-2n for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 10:32:29 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAAFWTD5007590 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 10:32:29 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJE1k-0001yL-VD for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 10:32:28 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA24596 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 10:32:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJE1h-00065u-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 10:32:25 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJE1h-00065r-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 10:32:25 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJE1J-0001wi-8C; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 10:32:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJE1G-0001wQ-LL for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 10:31:58 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA24562 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 10:31:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJE1E-00065U-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 10:31:56 -0500 Received: from ellis.ad.nps.navy.mil ([131.120.18.61] helo=[140.32.132.66]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJE1D-00065R-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 10:31:55 -0500 Received: from no.name.available by [140.32.132.66] via smtpd (for [132.151.6.1]) with ESMTP; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 07:29:12 -0800 Received: from ro178-33.ro.nps.navy.mil ([131.120.178.33]) by ellis.ad.nps.navy.mil with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Mon, 10 Nov 2003 07:31:46 -0800 Subject: Re: [manet] Extension to 802.11 needed for MANET? From: Rex Buddenberg To: Chi-Hsiang Yeh Cc: manet@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <000b01c3a2d3$2cf63d00$6ea8fea9@Acer100> References: <000b01c3a2d3$2cf63d00$6ea8fea9@Acer100> Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1068309164.3770.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.2.2 (1.2.2-5) Date: 10 Nov 2003 07:31:46 -0800 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Nov 2003 15:31:46.0134 (UTC) FILETIME=[C01E0F60:01C3A79F] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chi-Hsiang, You should read up on the IEEE 802.16 and 802.20 committee works. Contacts in the WiMax group (industry association for .16) are telling me to look for products in the coming year. On Tue, 2003-11-04 at 04:57, Chi-Hsiang Yeh wrote: > Hi, > > I'll appreciate your opinions toward the following issue. > > In the literature, IEEE 802.11 is the most commonly assumed MAC protocol > for ad hoc networks. Most ad hoc network testbeds are also built based > on IEEE 802.11. However, some problems (e.g., concerning power control, > interference, QoS, directional antennas, security, or radio efficiency) > will be introduced when the MAC protocol of IEEE 802.11/11e is applied > to multihop networking environments, leading to inefficiency and > difficulties in QoS provisioning. > > Do you think we need an extension to the MAC protocols of IEEE 802.11 > and 802.11e for ad hoc networks and multihop WLANs? > > Chi-Hsiang Yeh > ___________________________________________________________ > Chi-Hsiang Yeh (Mr./Dr./Prof.) > Dept. of Electrical & Computer Eng. > Queen's University > Kingston, Ontario, K7L 3N6 > Canada > > phone: +1 613-533-6368 > fax: +1 613-533-6615 > e-mail: chi-hsiang.yeh@ece.queensu.ca , yeh@ee.queensu.ca > URL: http://www.ece.queensu.ca/hpages/faculty/yeh/ > ___________________________________________________________ > > > > _______________________________________________ > manet mailing list > manet@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet -- b _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 10 10:52:37 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA25976 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 10:52:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJEKx-0003wB-Og for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 10:52:21 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAAFqJKa015129 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 10:52:19 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJEKx-0003vw-EN for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 10:52:19 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA25955 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 10:52:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJEKu-0006YI-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 10:52:16 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJEKu-0006YF-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 10:52:16 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJEKe-0003oh-VO; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 10:52:00 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJEJi-0003mC-UK for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 10:51:03 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA25883 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 10:50:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJEJg-0006XF-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 10:51:00 -0500 Received: from web80605.mail.yahoo.com ([66.218.79.94]) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJEJg-0006Wi-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 10:51:00 -0500 Message-ID: <20031110155024.29031.qmail@web80605.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [130.129.143.102] by web80605.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 07:50:24 PST Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 07:50:24 -0800 (PST) From: Jaehoon Jeong To: macker@itd.nrl.navy.mil, Corson@flarion.com Cc: manet@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [manet] About MANET WG's Agenda in IETF-58 Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Dear Chairs, I will be glad to hear the new agenda of this meeting. In addition, I am wondering whether the requirements for MANET address autoconf will be discussed. Thanks. Regards, Jaehoon Paul Jeong __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 10 11:33:36 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA28617 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 11:33:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJEyc-0006vw-DD for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 11:33:18 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAAGXINA026646 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 11:33:18 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJEyc-0006vh-4n for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 11:33:18 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA28556 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 11:33:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJEya-0007VR-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 11:33:16 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJEyZ-0007VO-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 11:33:15 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJEyM-0006pY-VV; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 11:33:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJExf-0006oq-Df for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 11:32:19 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA28508 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 11:32:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJExe-0007UT-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 11:32:18 -0500 Received: from pullyou.nist.gov ([129.6.16.93] helo=postmark.nist.gov) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJExd-0007UK-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 11:32:17 -0500 Received: from nist.gov (mouse.antd.nist.gov [129.6.50.84]) by postmark.nist.gov (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id hAAGVd18001838 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 11:31:39 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3FAFCBFF.586756CE@nist.gov> Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 12:33:51 -0500 From: bjkwak Organization: NIST, MD X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.8-26mdk i686) X-Accept-Language: en, ko MIME-Version: 1.0 To: manet@ietf.org Subject: Re: [manet] Question on 802.11DCF References: <3FAED82E.7020007@spri.levels.unisa.edu.au> <006f01c3a723$307df180$e4f02e93@oahu> <3FAF16A8.50205@spri.levels.unisa.edu.au> <1068440681.29000.21.camel@wind1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit [My apologies, if you have received multiple copies of this e-mail!] Hi Dong, Dong Zheng wrote: > > On Sun, 2003-11-09 at 21:40, Peter Pham wrote: > > Hi > > There are two terms that must be distinguished here. Defer and Backoff. > > > > Is it true that after every DIFS we perform a Defer ? > > How Defer and Backoff interact ? > > > > Let discuss in this scenario. After a successful transmission, the > > sender receive and ACK. It will perform a backoff (this one should be > > called backoff ? right)... > No need if there is no packet in the output queue and the BO (backoff) > is simply left as 0. However, if the queue is not empty, the BO will be > set and it will compete for the channel again. In 5th paragraph, Section 9.2.5.2, IEEE 802.11 specification, it says "A backoff procedure shall be performed immediately after the end of every transmission [ ... ] even if no additional transmissions are currently queued." > If somehow later it has a packet to deliver, it will first check if the > channel is idle and NAV ?= 0. If not, it will wait for the channel to > become idle again, set the BO and compete for the channel after DIFS. > Otherwise, it will just wait for DIFS, and if no one else transmits > before the DIFS period expires, it will transmit the packet immediately > after the DIFS period. My understanding is, if a packet arrives, a node checks if the channel has been idle for DIFS, instead of checking if the channel is idle for DIFS after the arrival of the packet. Thanks! Byung-Jae Kwak > Hope this can help you, correct me if I am wrong. > > -Dong > > After this backoff, there are two cases here > > 1) if there is no packet for transmission and the channel is idle. The > > node goes to idle right ?.... Once the node in idle state and the channel > > is idle and there is a packet arrival ? the node performs a DIFS + defer > > or just DIFS before sending the packet ??? > > 2) if there is a packet for transmission and the channel is idle, it > > performs are DIFS + defer or just a DIFS ??? > > > > This is where I find the standard confused here ... > > > > Cheers > > Peter Pham > > > > Joon Yoo wrote: > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > >From: "Peter Pham" > > >To: "MANET" > > >Sent: Monday, November 10, 2003 9:13 AM > > >Subject: [manet] Question on 802.11DCF > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>Hi all > > >> > > >>I read the standard of 802.11 and it is confusing on how you interpret > > >>the standard. > > >>If the channel is already idle for a long-long time (low data rate), > > >>and the mobile node has a packet for transmission, will the mobile nodes > > >>send the packet after a DIFS or DIFS + Deferal time ? > > >> From the standard it said that "if the medium is busy, it will sense > > >>the channel until the channel is idle for a DIFS and it performs a > > >>additional deferal time". It does not state what to do when the medium > > >>is idle. Do the node need to do a deferal backoff in this case ? does > > >> > > >> > > > > > >In this case, where the node has been sensing the channel as idle before the packet arrival, the node will wait for a DIFS period and transmit the packet without any backoff procedures (equivalent to backoff value=0). This is called "Immediate Access". In other words, when no on-going backoff and over DIFS idle time, a frame can be transmitted immediatley. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>the node alway have to to defer after a DIFS ? > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > >In case of DCF, yes. > > > > > > > > > > > >>Can you please provide some insight here. > > >> > > >>Best regards > > >>Peter Pham > > >> > > >> > > >>_______________________________________________ > > >>manet mailing list > > >>manet@ietf.org > > >>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > manet mailing list > > manet@ietf.org > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet > > _______________________________________________ > manet mailing list > manet@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet -- Anyone can be passionate, but it takes real lovers to be silly. - Rose Franklin _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 10 13:19:34 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA03893 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 13:19:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJGdC-0006bt-5L for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 13:19:19 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAAIJIJM025405 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 13:19:18 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJGdC-0006bg-1P for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 13:19:18 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA03870 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 13:19:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJGd9-0001bp-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 13:19:16 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJGd9-0001bm-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 13:19:15 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJGcw-0006ZT-B3; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 13:19:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJGci-0006Z2-8i for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 13:18:48 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA03867 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 13:18:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJGcg-0001bi-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 13:18:46 -0500 Received: from stl-smtpout-01.boeing.com ([130.76.96.56]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJGcf-0001bf-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 13:18:45 -0500 Received: from stl-av-01.boeing.com ([192.76.190.6]) by stl-smtpout-01.boeing.com (8.9.2.MG.10092003/8.8.5-M2) with ESMTP id MAA21905; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 12:18:43 -0600 (CST) Received: from stl-hub-01.boeing.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by stl-av-01.boeing.com (8.9.3/8.9.2/MBS-AV-02) with ESMTP id MAA09858; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 12:18:43 -0600 (CST) Received: from XCH-NWBH-01.nw.nos.boeing.com (xch-nwbh-01.nw.nos.boeing.com [192.33.62.231]) by stl-hub-01.boeing.com (8.11.3/8.11.3/MBS-LDAP-01) with ESMTP id hAAIGok12670; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 12:16:50 -0600 (CST) Received: from XCH-NW-27.nw.nos.boeing.com ([192.48.4.101]) by XCH-NWBH-01.nw.nos.boeing.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6662); Mon, 10 Nov 2003 10:16:37 -0800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [manet] OSPF extensions for manets Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 10:16:37 -0800 Message-ID: <6938661A6EDA8A4EA8D1419BCE46F24C026B5D6E@xch-nw-27.nw.nos.boeing.com> Thread-Topic: [manet] OSPF extensions for manets Thread-Index: AcOnUEvbO/HEIn2jTyuhu4FvS07RDgAYptLw From: "Henderson, Thomas R" To: "Richard Ogier" Cc: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Nov 2003 18:16:37.0795 (UTC) FILETIME=[C801BF30:01C3A7B6] Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Richard, Thanks for your comments and list of issues. As I mentioned to you previously, I agree that some of these technical choices need to be discussed further, once the IETF decides whether or not this becomes a work effort. Hopefully there will be strong support for the problem statement that will be presented=20 at the OSPF and MANET WGs this week, and we can then focus on the particulars of the solution via a design team. Tom > -----Original Message----- > From: Richard Ogier [mailto:ogier@erg.sri.com] > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2003 10:00 PM > To: manet@ietf.org > Cc: ogier@erg.sri.com > Subject: [manet] OSPF extensions for manets >=20 >=20 > I would like to offer some comments on: >=20 > draft-spagnolo-manet-ospf-wireless-interface-00.txt =20 >=20 > and to compare it with the solution in >=20 > http://www.erg.sri.com/projects/tbrpf/docs/draft-ogier-manet-o > spf-extension-00.txt >=20 ... _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 10 13:24:32 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA04138 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 13:24:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJGhG-0007EG-BT for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 13:24:06 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAAINT9L027784 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 13:23:29 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJGh6-000797-4P for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 13:23:20 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA04085 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 13:23:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJGh3-0001gI-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 13:23:17 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJGh2-0001gF-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 13:23:17 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJGgo-00071h-CL; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 13:23:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJGft-00070k-6s for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 13:22:05 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA04058 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 13:21:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJGfq-0001fN-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 13:22:02 -0500 Received: from rainer.bnt.com ([12.4.218.18]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJGfq-0001fB-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 13:22:02 -0500 Received: from LAPTOPPC ([198.70.230.133]) by rainer.bnt.com (8.12.8p2/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hAAILtsG003972; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 13:21:55 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from taolin@vt.edu) Message-ID: <022701c3a7b7$7c4d4b80$0402a8c0@LAPTOPPC> From: "Tao Lin" To: "Richard Ogier" , References: <3FAF2958.7090102@erg.sri.com> Subject: Re: [manet] OSPF extensions for manets Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 13:21:34 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Richard, I went over your OSPF extension draft carefully and have following comments. First of all, thanks for incorporating our idea of relay node set (RNS) framework into your draft. There is a mistake in the citation. The correct reference information for our RNS framework is T. Lin, S. F. Midkiff, and J. S. Park, "A Framework For Wireless Ad Hoc Network," IEEE WCNC 2003. Moreover, there are some other papers published that discuss the use of CDS algorithm to reduce broadcast overhead and support link state protocols such as OSPF in MANET (See below). I would suggest that these papers should also be read and/or cited as well. At least our IPCCC paper shows that the broadcast scheme using a CDS is a promising approach to reduce the control overhead dramatically compared to the blind broadcast scheme, which is used by the designated routers in OSPF. 1. B. Das and V. Bhargavan, "Routing in ad-hoc networks using minimum connected dominating sets," in Proc. of IEEE International Conference on Communications, vol. 1, pp. 376-380, 1997. 2. U.C. Kozat, G. Kondylis, B. Ryu, M.K. Marina, "Virtual dynamic backbone for mobile ad hoc networks," in Proc. of IEEE International Conference on Communications (ICC), vol. 1, pp. 250-255, 2001. 3. T. Lin, S. F. Midkiff, and J. S. Park, "Approximation Algorithms for Minimal Connected Dominating Sets and Application with Routing protocol in Wireless Ad Hoc Network," in Proc. of IEEE International Performance Computing and Communications Conference (IPCCC), pp. 157-164, April, 2003. Actually, we have implemented (in Linux) an OSPF extension protocol for MANET using the similar idea. We have also created an ns2 simulation model and are currently using that model to develop complete performance results. A paper summarizing the work and simulation results is in progress. The paper can be distributed when it is allowed. Thank you! Tao Lin Ph.D. Candidate Laboratory for Advanced Networking (VT-LAN) ECE Dept. Virginia Tech ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Ogier" To: Cc: Sent: Monday, November 10, 2003 12:59 AM Subject: [manet] OSPF extensions for manets > I would like to offer some comments on: > > draft-spagnolo-manet-ospf-wireless-interface-00.txt > > and to compare it with the solution in > > http://www.erg.sri.com/projects/tbrpf/docs/draft-ogier-manet-ospf-extension-00.txt > > I will refer to these documents as [Spagnolo03] and [Ogier03], respectively. > I am not saying that either of these solutions is better than the other, > and hopefully better solutions (or suggestions for improving these) will > be proposed after the problem statement is accepted. > > The draft [Spagnolo03] extends OSPF to manet interfaces by using the MPR > flooding mechanism of OSPF to flood LSAs. I.e., it proposes to list > MPRs in Hello messages, and to disseminate LSAs using unreliable, > periodic flooding via MPRs. > > Most of my comments can be grouped into the following three questions: > > 1. Are MPRs the best choice for the relay nodes used for flooding LSAs? > 2. Is it better to use reliable vs. unreliable flooding of LSAs? > 3. Should we try to minimize the changes to OSPF? > > I will discuss the third question first. It seems to me that minimizing > the changes to OSPF would make the extension more acceptable to the OSPF > working group. For example, as discussed below and in [Ogier03], it is > possible to avoid introducing any new packet formats, e.g., to use the > existing format for OSPF Hello packets, and to avoid introducing a new > flooding mechanism that requires a new sequence number for suppressing > duplicates, etc. OSPF already has a mechanism for suppressing > duplicates during flooding, and it is possible to use this mechanism. > > Below I quote a set of bullets from [Spagnolo03] summarizing their > proposed OSPF extension, and for comparison, after each bullet I > summarize how the solution in [Ogier03] is different. > (S indicates [Spagnolo03] and O indicates [Ogier03].) > > S defines a new Wireless Hello message. The new message adds > an MPR list and eliminate backup and designated router fields; > > O Does not require any change to the OSPF Hello packet format. > The Designated Router field may indicate a CDS (connected > dominating set) node instead of a DR. > > S implements the MPR selection algorithm and rules for reflood- > ing LSAs; > > O Implements an algorithm by which nodes select themselves > to be a CDS node or an MPR. > > S efficiently floods LSAs periodically using a Link State Flood > (LSF) message; > > O Uses an efficient method for reliable flooding based on periodic > Database Description packets, using existing OSPF message types. > > S eliminates the formation of full adjacencies on wireless > interfaces; all neighbor states beyond 2-Way are not reached, > and no database synchronization is performed; and > > O Same. > > S includes a mechanism for suppressing the redundant flooding of > "outside" LSAs (LSAs originated external to the wireless sub- > net). > > O A similar mechanism for suppressing "outside" LSAs can be employed. > > MPRs seem to be a popular method for flooding in manets, but we need to > ask whether MPRs are really the best way to flood LSAs in an OSPF > extension. Also, there are different ways to compute MPRs: in OLSR, > nodes select a subset of neighbors as MPRs, but it is also possible for > nodes to select themselves as MPRs. > > If MPRs are used only to flood LSAs, then a CDS is sufficent for this > purpose and has the following advantages. Most of these advantages > are also shared by self-selected MPRs (which do not require nodes to > advertise MPRs in Hellos). > > 1. OSPF Hello packets can be used without modification (the DR > field would indicate a CDS node, which can be the sending node > itself). Each node decides whether it is a CDS node (or an MPR) > based on Hellos and LSAs originated by neighbors. > > 2. As shown in reference [Lin03] of [Ogier03], and also by my own > simulations, using a CDS or self-selected MPR results in a relay > node set (set of nodes that relay a given LSA) that is smaller than > or about the same size as using MPRs (depending on the scenario). > > 3. Using a CDS is simpler, since the relay node set is independent > of the LSA originator. And the decision to forward a given LSA/LSU > does not depend on which neighbor it was received from. > > 4. Using a CDS or self-selected MPRs can result in faster recovery > from link failures, since a node does not have to wait for > a neighbor to select it. In fact, a CDS node or MPR is analogous > to a Designated Router (DR), and DRs select themselves in OSPF. > > The solution described in [Spagnolo03] uses unreliable, periodic > flooding, which is quite different from the OSPF flooding mechanism, > and requires a new packet type (LSF) that includes a new sequence > number used to detect duplicates. > > The solution described in [Ogier03] uses a reliable flooding mechanism > that does not require a new packet type, and uses the same mechanism as > OSPF to detect duplicates (based on the LSA sequence number in the > database). This flooding mechanism makes efficient use of the Database > Description (DD) and LS Request packets already defined in OSPF. > Instead of each node exchanging DD packets separately with each new > neighbor, each relay node (e.g., CDS node) periodically broadcasts > to its neighbors (on each manet interface) a set of DD packets, which > describes the set of LSAs that it is currently responsible for > reporting (by including the LSA headers with sequence numbers). > This is similar to the periodic Complete Sequence Numbers (CSN) packets > of IS-IS. If a node i detects via a DD packet that a neighbor CDS node j > has a more recent instance of some LSA, then node i can request the LSA > by sending a LS Request packet to j. More details can be found in > [Ogier03] (link given above), including an option for differential LSAs. > > As I mentioned, I am not saying that this is the best solution. > It is only work in progress, and hopefully other solutions will > be proposed. There are many choices to make, such as whether > to use a CDS, and if so, what algorithm to use. > Comments and suggestions are welcome. > > Regards, > Richard > > > _______________________________________________ > manet mailing list > manet@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 10 13:48:39 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA05142 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 13:48:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJH5J-0000PE-3d for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 13:48:22 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAAImLVm001561 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 13:48:21 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJH5I-0000P6-Dy for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 13:48:20 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA05121 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 13:48:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJH5G-00027Q-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 13:48:18 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJH5F-00027N-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 13:48:17 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJH4z-0000HW-MU; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 13:48:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJH4I-0000Bb-RJ for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 13:47:18 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA05058 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 13:47:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJH4G-00026H-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 13:47:16 -0500 Received: from gehenna.ece.cornell.edu ([128.84.95.235]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJH4G-00026E-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 13:47:16 -0500 Received: from Panacea_2.cornell.edu (dhcp-128-84-210-149-r3a-desktop.ece.cornell.edu [128.84.210.149]) by gehenna.ece.cornell.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 595DB1E8002; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 13:47:16 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20031110134331.0272f270@postoffice7.mail.cornell.edu> X-Sender: papadp@pop.ece.cornell.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 13:47:16 -0500 To: manet@ietf.org From: Panos Papadimitratos Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [manet] CfP: 1st European Workshop on Security in Ad-Hoc and Sensor Networks (ESAS 2004) Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , CALL FOR PAPERS 1st European Workshop on Security in Ad-Hoc and Sensor Networks (ESAS 2004) http://www.netlab.nec.de/esas/esas2004.html EURESCOM, Heidelberg, Germany 5.-6. August, 2004 GENERAL INFORMATION With more and more devices getting smart and interconnected, ad hoc and sensor networks will open up a realm of new communication and data exchange opportunities. These upcoming networks are characterized by their dynamic structure, lack of a pre-established fixed infrastructure, and constrained resources. In order to allow their successful deployment, various security challenges must be met. Examples include missing `a priori' security associations, no clear line of defense, the lack of a trusted infrastructure, complex multiple domain relationships, as well as bandwidth, computing, memory, and energy constraints. Due to the pervasive nature of applications relying on ad-hoc and sensor networks effective provisions for robust security solutions in a reliable and power efficient way must be taken. This workshop seeks submissions presenting novel research on all aspects of security and cryptography for ad-hoc and sensor networks. ESAS 2004 will be a workshop where the cryptography, security and wireless networking communities meet. Submission of papers based on work-in-progress is encouraged. The topics include but are not limited to: * Cryptographic protocols * Trust establishment, negotiation, and management * Security in constrained environments * Cooperation and fairness based protocols * Key management * Scalability evaluation of secure and reliable protocols * Secure routing * Secure hardware modules * Implementations of secure protocols * Deployment of secure protocols * Privacy and anonymity * Secure MAC protocols INSTRUCTIONS FOR AUTHORS Authors are invited to submit original papers. The preferred submission form is by electronic mail to Claude.Castelluccia@inrialpes.fr. The submissions must not exceed 10 pages (excluding the title page, bibliography and appendices), nor 12 pages overall. The final version should not exceed 15 pages. Please submit the paper in Postscript or PDF, together with an extra file containing the email and physical address of the authors, an indication of the corresponding author, and a copy of the title, key words and abstract. We recommend that you generate the PS or PDF file using LaTeX and the LNCS style available at www.springer.de/comp/lncs. All submissions will be refereed. Submissions must not substantially duplicate work that any of the authors have published elsewhere or have submitted in parallel. IMPORTANT DATES Submission Deadline: 15th March, 2004. Acceptance Notification: 30th April, 2004. Workshop Version due: 1st June, 2004. Workshop: 5th-6th August, 2004. Proceedings Version Deadline: 6th September, 2004. WORKSHOP ORGANIZERS Claude Castelluccia, INRIA, France Hannes Hartenstein, University of Karlsruhe, Germany Christof Paar, University of Bochum, Germany Dirk Westhoff, NEC Europe Network Lab., Heidelberg, Germany PROGRAM COMMITTEE N. Asokan, Nokia, Finland Levente Buttyan, BME-HIT, Hungary Claude Castelluccia, INRIA, France Hannes Hartenstein, University of Karlsruhe, Germany Refik Molva, Eurecom, France Gabriel Montenegro, SunLabs, France Pekka Nikander, Ericsson, Finland Christof Paar, University of Bochum, Germany Panagiotis Papadimitratos, Cornell University, USA Frank Stajano, University of Cambridge, UK Gene Tsudik, UC Irvine, USA Andre Weimerskirch, University of Bochum, Germany Dirk Westhoff, NEC Europe Ltd., Germany Susanne Wetzel, Stevens Institute of Technology, USA WORKSHOP PROCEEDINGS The Proceedings will be published by Springer after the Workshop in the Lecture Notes in Computer Science (LNCS) Series (www.springer.de/comp/lncs). Notice that in order to be included in the proceedings, the authors of an accepted paper must guarantee to present their contribution at the workshop. FURTHER WORKSHOP INFORMATION Web Page: http://www.netlab.nec.de/esas/esas2004.html E-mail: dirk.westhoff@netlab.nec.de _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 10 13:51:39 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA05218 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 13:51:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJH89-0000k7-2T for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 13:51:22 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAAIpHr3002856 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 13:51:17 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJH88-0000jw-75 for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 13:51:16 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA05198 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 13:51:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJH85-00029d-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 13:51:13 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJH85-00029a-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 13:51:13 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJH7u-0000cg-2c; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 13:51:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJH77-0000bS-Jq for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 13:50:13 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA05187 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 13:50:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJH75-00029L-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 13:50:11 -0500 Received: from s2.itd.nrl.navy.mil ([132.250.83.3]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJH74-00028p-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 13:50:10 -0500 Received: from smtp.itd.nrl.navy.mil (smtp.itd.nrl.navy.mil [132.250.86.3]) by s2.itd.nrl.navy.mil (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.8) with SMTP id hAAInQMq013752; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 13:49:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from SEXTANT.itd.nrl.navy.mil ([132.250.92.22]) by smtp.itd.nrl.navy.mil (SAVSMTP 3.1.2.35) with SMTP id M2003111013492621217 ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 13:49:26 -0500 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.2.20031110134751.028fad90@pop.itd.nrl.navy.mil> X-Sender: macker@pop.itd.nrl.navy.mil (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 13:51:38 -0500 To: "Henderson, Thomas R" , "Richard Ogier" From: Joe Macker Subject: RE: [manet] OSPF extensions for manets Cc: In-Reply-To: <6938661A6EDA8A4EA8D1419BCE46F24C026B5D6E@xch-nw-27.nw.nos. boeing.com> References: <6938661A6EDA8A4EA8D1419BCE46F24C026B5D6E@xch-nw-27.nw.nos.boeing.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , At 01:16 PM 11/10/2003, Henderson, Thomas R wrote: >Richard, >Thanks for your comments and list of issues. As I mentioned to >you previously, I agree that some of these technical choices >need to be discussed further, once the IETF decides whether >or not this becomes a work effort. Hopefully there will be >strong support for the problem statement that will be presented >at the OSPF and MANET WGs this week, and we can then focus on >the particulars of the solution via a design team. We will have time for presentations and issues at the meeting. The main goal, however, is to determine if the problem statement can be used to move forward with a design team approach. This is one possible way forward for some of the proactive "lessons learned" to transition. Of course, there are new issues too. -Joe >Tom > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Richard Ogier [mailto:ogier@erg.sri.com] >> Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2003 10:00 PM >> To: manet@ietf.org >> Cc: ogier@erg.sri.com >> Subject: [manet] OSPF extensions for manets >> >> >> I would like to offer some comments on: >> >> draft-spagnolo-manet-ospf-wireless-interface-00.txt >> >> and to compare it with the solution in >> >> http://www.erg.sri.com/projects/tbrpf/docs/draft-ogier-manet-o >> spf-extension-00.txt >> >... > >_______________________________________________ >manet mailing list >manet@ietf.org >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 10 16:38:46 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA14814 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 16:38:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJJjx-0005SV-FI for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 16:38:29 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAALcTxp020971 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 16:38:29 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJJjx-0005SA-45 for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 16:38:29 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA14763 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 16:38:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJJjv-000584-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 16:38:27 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJJju-000581-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 16:38:26 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJJjY-0005Lp-GT; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 16:38:04 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJJib-0004t5-3i for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 16:37:05 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA14696; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 16:36:51 -0500 (EST) From: fred@cisco.com Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJJiY-00055l-00; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 16:37:02 -0500 Received: from sj-iport-1-in.cisco.com ([171.71.176.70] helo=sj-iport-1.cisco.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJJiY-00055S-00; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 16:37:02 -0500 Received: from irp-view7.cisco.com (irp-view7.cisco.com [171.70.65.144]) by sj-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.9/8.12.6) with ESMTP id hAALaTw5001832; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 13:36:30 -0800 (PST) Received: (fred@localhost) by irp-view7.cisco.com (8.8.8-Cisco List Logging/CISCO.WS.1.2) id NAA27590; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 13:36:29 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 13:36:29 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <200311102136.NAA27590@irp-view7.cisco.com> To: manet@ietf.org, ospf@peach.ease.lsoft.com, proceedings@ietf.org Subject: [manet] Baker slides on Manet OSPF Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , You may find the slides I'm using in OSPF and in Manet at: ftp://ftpeng.cisco.com/fred/manet/Problem_Statement_for_OSPF_Extensions_for_Mobile_Ad.pdf ftp://ftpeng.cisco.com/fred/manet/Problem_Statement_for_OSPF_Extensions_for_Mobile_Ad.ppt _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 10 16:49:36 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA15321 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 16:49:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJJuM-0006cq-SR for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 16:49:19 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAALnExH025462 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 16:49:14 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJJuM-0006cG-Mx for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 16:49:14 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA15304 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 16:49:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJJuK-0005MT-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 16:49:12 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJJuK-0005MQ-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 16:49:12 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJJuA-0006Wc-6Q; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 16:49:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJJu6-0006WE-Ma for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 16:48:58 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA15291 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 16:48:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJJu4-0005M6-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 16:48:56 -0500 Received: from post3.inre.asu.edu ([129.219.113.218]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJJu3-0005Ly-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 16:48:56 -0500 Received: from conversion.post3.inre.asu.edu by asu.edu (PMDF V6.1-1X6 #30769) id <0HO500801OA81T@asu.edu> for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 14:42:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.asu.edu (smtp.asu.edu [129.219.110.107]) by asu.edu (PMDF V6.1-1X6 #30769) with ESMTP id <0HO500762OA8IA@asu.edu>; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 14:42:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from wind1.eas.asu.edu (wind1.eas.asu.edu [149.169.39.143]) by smtp.asu.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10/asu_smtp_relay,nullclient,tcp_wrapped) with ESMTP id hAALg6S8010665; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 14:42:06 -0700 (MST) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 14:42:08 -0700 From: Dong Zheng Subject: Re: [manet] Question on 802.11DCF In-reply-to: <3FAFCBFF.586756CE@nist.gov> To: bjkwak Cc: manet@ietf.org Message-id: <1068500529.29000.45.camel@wind1> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.0.8 (1.0.8-9.7x.1) Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <3FAED82E.7020007@spri.levels.unisa.edu.au> <006f01c3a723$307df180$e4f02e93@oahu> <3FAF16A8.50205@spri.levels.unisa.edu.au> <1068440681.29000.21.camel@wind1> <3FAFCBFF.586756CE@nist.gov> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > > Let discuss in this scenario. After a successful transmission, the > > > sender receive and ACK. It will perform a backoff (this one should be > > > called backoff ? right)... > > No need if there is no packet in the output queue and the BO (backoff) > > is simply left as 0. However, if the queue is not empty, the BO will be > > set and it will compete for the channel again. > > In 5th paragraph, Section 9.2.5.2, IEEE 802.11 specification, it says > > "A backoff procedure shall be performed immediately after the end of > every transmission [ ... ] even if no additional transmissions are > currently queued." Yes, you are right. But does this backoff mean that you have to set up the Backoff Timer? My understanding is since you don't have any packets in the queue, then definitely you have to be silent (backoff) for a while. ;-) BTW, I also read the code from GlomoSim, here is the code: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ void Mac802_11CheckForOutgoingPacket(GlomoNode *node, GlomoMac802_11 *M802) { if (!NetworkIpOutputQueueIsEmpty(node,M802->myGlomoMac->interfaceIndex)) { Mac802_11SetBackoffIfZero(node, M802); AttemptToGoIntoWaitForDifsOrEifsState(node, M802); } else { assert(M802->BO == 0); Mac802_11SetState(node, M802, M802_11_S_IDLE); Mac802_11CancelTimer(node, M802); } } ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ This function is called after a successful ACK has been received. As you can see, if there is no packet in the queue, it will simply leave BO (the Backoff Timer) as zero. > > > If somehow later it has a packet to deliver, it will first check if the > > channel is idle and NAV ?= 0. If not, it will wait for the channel to > > become idle again, set the BO and compete for the channel after DIFS. > > Otherwise, it will just wait for DIFS, and if no one else transmits > > before the DIFS period expires, it will transmit the packet immediately > > after the DIFS period. > > My understanding is, if a packet arrives, a node checks if the channel > has been idle for DIFS, instead of checking if the channel is idle for > DIFS after the arrival of the packet. > But does that mean if the channel has been idle for DIFS, it will transmit the packet immediately? Thanks! -Dong _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 10 17:33:30 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA17970 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 17:33:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJKaw-000271-2V for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 17:33:14 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAAMXEqF008118 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 17:33:14 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJKav-00026r-Qx for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 17:33:13 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA17954 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 17:32:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJKat-0006Gz-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 17:33:11 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJKas-0006Gw-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 17:33:10 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJKak-000224-8O; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 17:33:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJKaX-00021a-9w for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 17:32:49 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA17945 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 17:32:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJKaU-0006GY-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 17:32:46 -0500 Received: from pullyou.nist.gov ([129.6.16.93] helo=postmark.nist.gov) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJKaU-0006GV-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 17:32:46 -0500 Received: from nist.gov (mouse.antd.nist.gov [129.6.50.84]) by postmark.nist.gov (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id hAAMWP18028410; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 17:32:25 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3FB0208D.F08AC7B4@nist.gov> Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 18:34:37 -0500 From: bjkwak Organization: NIST, MD X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.8-26mdk i686) X-Accept-Language: en, ko MIME-Version: 1.0 To: manet@ietf.org CC: Dong Zheng Subject: Re: [manet] Question on 802.11DCF References: <3FAED82E.7020007@spri.levels.unisa.edu.au> <006f01c3a723$307df180$e4f02e93@oahu> <3FAF16A8.50205@spri.levels.unisa.edu.au> <1068440681.29000.21.camel@wind1> <3FAFCBFF.586756CE@nist.gov> <1068500529.29000.45.camel@wind1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Dong, Dong Zheng wrote: > > > > > Let discuss in this scenario. After a successful transmission, the > > > > sender receive and ACK. It will perform a backoff (this one should be > > > > called backoff ? right)... > > > No need if there is no packet in the output queue and the BO (backoff) > > > is simply left as 0. However, if the queue is not empty, the BO will be > > > set and it will compete for the channel again. > > > > In 5th paragraph, Section 9.2.5.2, IEEE 802.11 specification, it says > > > > "A backoff procedure shall be performed immediately after the end of > > every transmission [ ... ] even if no additional transmissions are > > currently queued." > > Yes, you are right. But does this backoff mean that you have to set up > the Backoff Timer? My understanding is since you don't have any packets > in the queue, then definitely you have to be silent (backoff) for a > while. ;-) > > BTW, I also read the code from GlomoSim, here is the code: > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > void Mac802_11CheckForOutgoingPacket(GlomoNode *node, GlomoMac802_11 > *M802) > { > if > (!NetworkIpOutputQueueIsEmpty(node,M802->myGlomoMac->interfaceIndex)) > { > Mac802_11SetBackoffIfZero(node, M802); > AttemptToGoIntoWaitForDifsOrEifsState(node, M802); > } > else > { > assert(M802->BO == 0); > Mac802_11SetState(node, M802, M802_11_S_IDLE); > Mac802_11CancelTimer(node, M802); > } > } > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > This function is called after a successful ACK has been received. As you > can see, if there is no packet in the queue, it will simply leave BO > (the Backoff Timer) as zero. I see! But, I believe we have to follow the published STANDARD if there is a disagreement between the standard and an implementation. A while ago, our group was working on performance analysis of the IEEE 802.11 DCF and we used OPNET for the simulation. At first the simulation result (OPNET 7) was quite different from our analysis result. We decided to investigate the OPNET WLAN model and later found out there were some bugs in the OPNET model. We reported the bugs to OPNET company and they fixed the bugs in a very timely manner. OPNET 9 has all the bugs we reported fixed and it implements the 802.11 standards quite accurately. (There were still some areas that needed some work when OPNET 9 was released though.) I am sure GlomoSim has a lot of bugs, too. > > > If somehow later it has a packet to deliver, it will first check if the > > > channel is idle and NAV ?= 0. If not, it will wait for the channel to > > > become idle again, set the BO and compete for the channel after DIFS. > > > Otherwise, it will just wait for DIFS, and if no one else transmits > > > before the DIFS period expires, it will transmit the packet immediately > > > after the DIFS period. > > > > My understanding is, if a packet arrives, a node checks if the channel > > has been idle for DIFS, instead of checking if the channel is idle for > > DIFS after the arrival of the packet. > > > But does that mean if the channel has been idle for DIFS, it will > transmit the packet immediately? > > Thanks! > > -Dong Actually, that is where the standard is very confusing. What I understand is as follows: Node A Tx a packet; Node A receives an ACK; Node A starts a backoff procedure: choose random backoff and count down; If the queue was not empty at the time of reception of ACK then Enter normal backoff procedure; else // Queue was empty If a packet arrives before the backoff counter expires Then Wait until the timer expire; Tx the packet after DIFS idle time; else // A packet arrives after the timer expires If channel has been idle for more than DIFS then Tx the packet right away; else Enter normal backoff procedure; endif endif endif Thanks! Byung-Jae Kwak ------------------------------------------ Wireless Communication Technologies Group Advanced Network Technologies Division NIST, MD -- Anyone can be passionate, but it takes real lovers to be silly. - Rose Franklin _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 10 18:32:38 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA22477 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 18:32:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJLWB-0006kU-BZ for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 18:32:23 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAANWNJO025942 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 18:32:23 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJLW9-0006kJ-RX for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 18:32:23 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA22451 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 18:32:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJLVu-0007RM-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 18:32:06 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJLVu-0007RJ-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 18:32:06 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJLVq-0006g4-C0; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 18:32:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJLVU-0006fJ-2i for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 18:31:40 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA22416 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 18:31:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJLVQ-0007Qf-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 18:31:36 -0500 Received: from post3.inre.asu.edu ([129.219.113.218]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJLVQ-0007Qc-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 18:31:36 -0500 Received: from conversion.post3.inre.asu.edu by asu.edu (PMDF V6.1-1X6 #30769) id <0HO500J01T1FUU@asu.edu> for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 16:24:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.asu.edu (smtp.asu.edu [129.219.110.107]) by asu.edu (PMDF V6.1-1X6 #30769) with ESMTP id <0HO500DYQT1FHP@asu.edu>; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 16:24:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from wind1.eas.asu.edu (wind1.eas.asu.edu [149.169.39.143]) by smtp.asu.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10/asu_smtp_relay,nullclient,tcp_wrapped) with ESMTP id hAANOnS8018058; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 16:24:49 -0700 (MST) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 16:24:51 -0700 From: Dong Zheng Subject: Re: [manet] Question on 802.11DCF In-reply-to: <3FB0208D.F08AC7B4@nist.gov> To: bjkwak Cc: manet@ietf.org Message-id: <1068506691.28780.89.camel@wind1> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.0.8 (1.0.8-9.7x.1) Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <3FAED82E.7020007@spri.levels.unisa.edu.au> <006f01c3a723$307df180$e4f02e93@oahu> <3FAF16A8.50205@spri.levels.unisa.edu.au> <1068440681.29000.21.camel@wind1> <3FAFCBFF.586756CE@nist.gov> <1068500529.29000.45.camel@wind1> <3FB0208D.F08AC7B4@nist.gov> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Byung, It seems that our understanding bifurcates from the clause "In general, a STA may transmit ..., when the STA determines that the medium is idle for greater than or equal to a DIFS period ..." In my understanding, the STA determines that the medium will be idle for DIFS, however, your understanding is that the STA determines that the medium has been idle for more than DIFS. But a closer look at Fig. 51 tells that the STA will wait for DIFS instead of checking the channel has been idle for DIFS. Can sb. else help us clarify this confusion? ;-) > What I understand is as follows: > > Node A Tx a packet; > Node A receives an ACK; > Node A starts a backoff procedure: > choose random backoff and count down; If the average of this backoff time is less than DIFS ... > If the queue was not empty at the time of reception of ACK > then > Enter normal backoff procedure; then it will give priority to this node cause other nodes will wait for DIFS before they can enter the backoff procedure. > else // Queue was empty > If a packet arrives before the backoff counter expires > Then > Wait until the timer expire; > Tx the packet after DIFS idle time; > else // A packet arrives after the timer expires > If channel has been idle for more than DIFS > then > Tx the packet right away; > else > Enter normal backoff procedure; > endif > endif > endif > > Thanks! > > Byung-Jae Kwak > ------------------------------------------ > Wireless Communication Technologies Group > Advanced Network Technologies Division > NIST, MD > > -- > Anyone can be passionate, > but it takes real lovers to be silly. - Rose Franklin _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 10 23:02:29 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA03716 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 23:02:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJPjK-0005aq-55 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 23:02:14 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAB42Elv021496 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 23:02:14 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJPjK-0005ad-0m for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 23:02:14 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA03705 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 23:01:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJPjG-00047s-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 23:02:10 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJPjF-00047p-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 23:02:09 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJPj8-0005ZX-GM; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 23:02:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJPj4-0005ZK-3d for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 23:01:58 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA03698 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 23:01:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJPj0-00047h-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 23:01:54 -0500 Received: from web40803.mail.yahoo.com ([66.218.78.180]) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJPiz-00047D-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 23:01:53 -0500 Message-ID: <20031111040124.37626.qmail@web40803.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [128.226.182.231] by web40803.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 20:01:24 PST Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 20:01:24 -0800 (PST) From: Vinay Kolar To: manet@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [manet] Directional mode in qualnet Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Hi, We are using qualnet for the simulations and testing scenarios involving directional antennas. The type of RTS/CTS/DATA and ACK transmissions is not documented in any place. Does it ALWAYS send in directional mode? Does it receive in directional mode? Or does it send an omni-RTS and omni-CTS and then send the data in the directional mode? It is hard to analyse the results without above understanding! Any answers/references to these questions is highly appreciated..... Some papers which have used Qualnet for simulations do talk about "directional send with omni-RTS/omni-CTS" but I do not know if that is specific to their study or a general implementation in Qualnet. Thanks, Vinay Kolar __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 11 01:05:35 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA07614 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 01:05:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJReM-0004Fe-Ty for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 01:05:15 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAB65Epe016336 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 01:05:14 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJReM-0004FP-Oc for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 01:05:14 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA07600 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 01:05:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJReJ-0005dy-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 01:05:11 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJReJ-0005dv-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 01:05:11 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJReA-0004BI-Vp; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 01:05:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJRdd-0004AT-4X for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 01:04:29 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA07573 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 01:04:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJRda-0005dF-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 01:04:26 -0500 Received: from s2.itd.nrl.navy.mil ([132.250.83.3]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJRdZ-0005cp-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 01:04:25 -0500 Received: from smtp.itd.nrl.navy.mil (smtp.itd.nrl.navy.mil [132.250.86.3]) by s2.itd.nrl.navy.mil (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.8) with SMTP id hAB63vMq003673 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 01:03:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from gonzo.itd.nrl.navy.mil ([132.250.217.206]) by smtp.itd.nrl.navy.mil (SAVSMTP 3.1.2.35) with SMTP id M2003111101035604153 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 01:03:56 -0500 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.2.20031111005447.01ab9048@pop.itd.nrl.navy.mil> X-Sender: macker@pop.itd.nrl.navy.mil (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 00:59:52 -0500 To: manet@ietf.org From: Joe Macker Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [manet] Thursday Mtg Draft Agenda Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Here is a draft agenda for Thursday. There have been alot of requests with limited space so we have sidetracked some peripheral discussions. We want to concentrate on core routing design team work in our discussion and possible next steps. Bashing can begin now. ------------------------------- Mobile Ad-hoc Networks (manet) Thursday, November 13 at 1530-1730 ================================== CHAIRS: Joe Macker Scott Corson AGENDA: Agenda Bashing 5 Mins WG Documents and General Status 10 Mins Chairs Update of Peripheral ID Submissions (e.g., manet autoconf) TBRPF: (IESG Approval to EXP) 10 Mins Richard Ogier Discussion 5 Mins OLSR: RFC 3626 (EXP) 10 Mins Thomas Clausen Discussion 5 Mins draft-perkins-manet-aodvbis-00 10 Mins Charlie Perkins Discussion 10 Mins Report on AODV-IETF Experiment 10 Mins Elizabeth Royer OSPF-MANET Integration Consideration 5 Mins Chairs Draft OSPF-MANET Problem Statement 10 Mins Fred Baker draft-baker-manet-ospf-problem-statement-00 Discussion 5 Mins OSPFv2 + MANET ID 10 Mins Tom Henderson draft-spagnolo-manet-ospf-wireless-interface-00 Discussion 5 Mins Next Steps Discussion 10 Mins Chairs/All ------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 11 11:13:43 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA07637 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:13:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJb8u-00030H-Ab for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:13:24 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hABGDOKq011541 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:13:24 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJb8u-000304-5N for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:13:24 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA07600 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:13:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJb8t-0005DW-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:13:23 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJb8s-0005DS-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:13:22 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJb8X-0002ww-8X; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:13:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJb8U-0002wB-0R for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:12:58 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA07591 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:12:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJb8T-0005D6-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:12:57 -0500 Received: from web12905.mail.yahoo.com ([216.136.174.72]) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJb8S-0005D3-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:12:56 -0500 Message-ID: <20031111161255.28868.qmail@web12905.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [199.77.155.130] by web12905.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 08:12:55 PST Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 08:12:55 -0800 (PST) From: Mark Pratt To: manet@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1048123844-1068567175=:28482" Subject: [manet] IEEE 802.11 CSMA/CA or RTS/CTS? Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , --0-1048123844-1068567175=:28482 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii To Whom It May Concern, Hi. It is documented that the DCF mode of IEEE 802.11 can use both CSMA/CA and/?or MACA (RTS/CTS). However, I was wondering which one does 802.11 use? Does it use a combination of both? Does it make a selection as to which one to use? I would really appreciate your help in this regard. Thanks a lot, Mark manet80211@yahoo.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard --0-1048123844-1068567175=:28482 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
To Whom It May Concern,
 
Hi. It is documented that the DCF mode of IEEE 802.11 can use both CSMA/CA and/?or MACA (RTS/CTS).  However, I was wondering which one does 802.11 use?  Does it use a combination of both?  Does it make a selection as to which one to use?
 
I would really appreciate your help in this regard.
 
Thanks a lot,
Mark
manet80211@yahoo.com

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Mail AddressGuard --0-1048123844-1068567175=:28482-- _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 11 11:35:40 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA08664 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:35:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJbU7-0005CP-9W for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:35:21 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hABGZJGv019979 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:35:19 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJbU7-0005C9-1d for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:35:19 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA08632 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:35:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJbU6-0005ZB-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:35:18 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJbU5-0005Z8-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:35:17 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJbTt-00050U-4E; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:35:05 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJbT6-0004uq-MV for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:34:16 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA08613 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:34:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJbT5-0005Ye-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:34:15 -0500 Received: from pullyou.nist.gov ([129.6.16.93] helo=postmark.nist.gov) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJbT4-0005Yb-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:34:15 -0500 Received: from nist.gov (mouse.antd.nist.gov [129.6.50.84]) by postmark.nist.gov (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id hABGXg18001617; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:33:42 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3FB11DFA.48D4687D@nist.gov> Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 12:35:54 -0500 From: bjkwak Organization: NIST, MD X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.8-26mdk i686) X-Accept-Language: en, ko MIME-Version: 1.0 To: manet@ietf.org CC: Dong Zheng Subject: Re: [manet] Question on 802.11DCF References: <3FAED82E.7020007@spri.levels.unisa.edu.au> <006f01c3a723$307df180$e4f02e93@oahu> <3FAF16A8.50205@spri.levels.unisa.edu.au> <1068440681.29000.21.camel@wind1> <3FAFCBFF.586756CE@nist.gov> <1068500529.29000.45.camel@wind1> <3FB0208D.F08AC7B4@nist.gov> <1068506691.28780.89.camel@wind1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Dong, Dong Zheng wrote: > > Hi, Byung, It is Byung-Jae :) > It seems that our understanding bifurcates from the clause "In general, > a STA may transmit ..., when the STA determines that the medium is idle > for greater than or equal to a DIFS period ..." In my understanding, the > STA determines that the medium will be idle for DIFS, however, your > understanding is that the STA determines that the medium has been idle > for more than DIFS. But a closer look at Fig. 51 tells that the STA will > wait for DIFS instead of checking the channel has been idle for DIFS. > > Can sb. else help us clarify this confusion? ;-) > > > What I understand is as follows: > > > > Node A Tx a packet; > > Node A receives an ACK; > > Node A starts a backoff procedure: > > choose random backoff and count down; > If the average of this backoff time is less than DIFS ... > > > If the queue was not empty at the time of reception of ACK > > then > > Enter normal backoff procedure; > then it will give priority to this node cause other nodes will wait for > DIFS before they can enter the backoff procedure. > > > else // Queue was empty > > If a packet arrives before the backoff counter expires > > Then > > Wait until the timer expire; > > Tx the packet after DIFS idle time; > > else // A packet arrives after the timer expires > > If channel has been idle for more than DIFS > > then > > Tx the packet right away; > > else > > Enter normal backoff procedure; > > endif > > endif > > endif I guess I was not clear enough in my description. Below is an improved version. Note: In my original description, the "normal backoff procedure" was meant to be: waiting DIFS + choosing random number + counting down. In the new description below, it does not include the DIFS to be clearer. STA A Tx a packet; STA A receives an ACK; STA A waits for DIFS; STA A choose a random number for backoff and counts down to zero; If (STA A has a packet in the queue) then STA A Tx the packet; else STA A waits until a packet arrives; switch (channel idle time) case (the channel has been idle for more than DIFS): STA A Tx the packet right away; case (the channel has been idle for T_idle < DIFS): STA A waits for DIFS - T_idle; STA A enters a normal backoff procedure; case (the channel is busy) STA A waits until the channel becomes idle; STA A waits DIFS; STA A enters a normal backoff procedure; endswitch endif I hope that it makes sense now! Thanks! Byung-Jae Kwak ------------------------------------------ Wireless Communication Technologies Group Advanced Network Technologies Division NIST, MD -- Anyone can be passionate, but it takes real lovers to be silly. - Rose Franklin _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 11 11:40:52 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA09068 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:40:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJbZ8-0006l6-Af for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:40:33 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hABGeUF8025974 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:40:30 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJbZ8-0006kr-59 for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:40:30 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA09034 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:40:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJbZ7-0005gv-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:40:29 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJbZ6-0005gs-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:40:28 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJbYq-0006dR-K2; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:40:12 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJbYb-0006aD-HE for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:39:57 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA09004 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:39:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJbYa-0005fs-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:39:56 -0500 Received: from blaze.cs.jhu.edu ([128.220.13.50]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJbYY-0005fI-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:39:55 -0500 Received: from Mercury (pelican.cs.jhu.edu [128.220.13.57]) by blaze.cs.jhu.edu (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hABGerQQ026970 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:40:53 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: From: "dholmer" To: Subject: RE: [manet] Re: Power Saving in 802.11 Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:39:42 -0500 Organization: Johns Hopkins University Message-ID: <003901c3a872$68d87460$0300a8c0@Mercury> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A number of people have asked for the application note I mentioned in my previous post. I've placed a copy of the pdf on a publicly accessible location so anyone can download it. http://www.cnds.jhu.edu/research/networks/archipelago/prism_power_manage ment_modes.pdf - David Holmer PS. Sorry for the delay, the original version of this post got flagged for moderation because it was too long (due to me not stripping out the reply text). _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 11 13:01:27 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA13641 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 13:01:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJcpC-00071M-BQ for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 13:01:10 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hABI1Asc026988 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 13:01:10 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJcpC-00071D-7y for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 13:01:10 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA13614 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 13:00:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJcpA-0007Gq-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 13:01:08 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJcp9-0007Gn-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 13:01:07 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJcp4-000706-6b; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 13:01:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJcoE-0006pg-TD for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 13:00:10 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA13585 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 12:59:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJcoC-0007E9-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 13:00:08 -0500 Received: from isis.lip6.fr ([132.227.60.2]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJcoC-0007E6-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 13:00:08 -0500 Received: from tibre.lip6.fr (tibre.lip6.fr [132.227.74.2]) by isis.lip6.fr (8.12.10/jtpda-5.4+victor) with ESMTP id hABI06su004085 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 19:00:06 +0100 X-pt: isis.lip6.fr Received: from localhost (iannone@localhost) by tibre.lip6.fr (8.11.6p3/8.11.6) with ESMTP id hABI05j21146; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 19:00:06 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 19:00:05 +0100 (CET) From: Luigi Iannone To: manet@ietf.org cc: bjkwak Subject: Re: [manet] Question on 802.11DCF In-Reply-To: <20031111170005.3892.86487.Mailman@www1.ietf.org> Message-ID: References: <20031111170005.3892.86487.Mailman@www1.ietf.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: isis.lip6.fr Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , > Message: 4 > Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 12:35:54 -0500 > From: bjkwak > Organization: NIST, MD > To: manet@ietf.org > CC: Dong Zheng > Subject: Re: [manet] Question on 802.11DCF > I think you did a nice job in your description, though I have a remaining doubt: In the first case of the switch I'm not sure the packet is transmitted right away. I think a backoff is done. Ciao Luigi > STA A Tx a packet; > STA A receives an ACK; > STA A waits for DIFS; > STA A choose a random number for backoff and counts down to zero; > If (STA A has a packet in the queue) > then > STA A Tx the packet; > else > STA A waits until a packet arrives; > switch (channel idle time) > case (the channel has been idle for more than DIFS): > STA A Tx the packet right away; > case (the channel has been idle for T_idle < DIFS): > STA A waits for DIFS - T_idle; > STA A enters a normal backoff procedure; > case (the channel is busy) > STA A waits until the channel becomes idle; > STA A waits DIFS; > STA A enters a normal backoff procedure; > endswitch > endif > ------------------------>>>>>>>> Luigi Iannone - Laboratoire D'Informatique Paris 6 e.mail: luigi.iannone@lip6.fr Tel: +33 (0)1 44 27 71 28 _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 11 14:55:31 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA18243 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 14:55:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJebZ-0007er-MI for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 14:55:14 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hABJtDDG029432 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 14:55:13 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJebZ-0007eR-Ff for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 14:55:13 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA18231 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 14:55:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJebW-00018W-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 14:55:10 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJebW-00018T-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 14:55:10 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJebP-0007Vv-S6; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 14:55:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJebI-0007VS-AU for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 14:54:56 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA18185 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 14:54:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJebE-00017x-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 14:54:52 -0500 Received: from pullyou.nist.gov ([129.6.16.93] helo=postmark.nist.gov) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJebD-00017j-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 14:54:51 -0500 Received: from nist.gov (mouse.antd.nist.gov [129.6.50.84]) by postmark.nist.gov (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id hABJrh18010897; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 14:53:43 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3FB14CDC.881CD678@nist.gov> Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 15:55:56 -0500 From: bjkwak Organization: NIST, MD X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.8-26mdk i686) X-Accept-Language: en, ko MIME-Version: 1.0 To: manet@ietf.org CC: Luigi Iannone Subject: Re: [manet] Question on 802.11DCF References: <20031111170005.3892.86487.Mailman@www1.ietf.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Luigi Iannone wrote: > > > Message: 4 > > Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 12:35:54 -0500 > > From: bjkwak > > Organization: NIST, MD > > To: manet@ietf.org > > CC: Dong Zheng > > Subject: Re: [manet] Question on 802.11DCF > > > > I think you did a nice job in your description, though I have a remaining > doubt: Thanks :) > In the first case of the switch I'm not sure the packet is > transmitted right away. I think a backoff is done. > Ciao > Luigi Please read Section 9.2.5.1 Basic access of the standard and figure 51 therein. Thanks! Byung-Jae Kwak -- Anyone can be passionate, but it takes real lovers to be silly. - Rose Franklin _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 11 15:23:34 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA20397 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 15:23:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJf2g-0001Fk-RN for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 15:23:15 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hABKNEHl004810 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 15:23:14 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJf2g-0001FV-0d for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 15:23:14 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA20381 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 15:23:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJf2e-0001Wi-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 15:23:12 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJf2e-0001Wf-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 15:23:12 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJf2U-0001BJ-2S; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 15:23:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJf1m-0001Ai-1M for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 15:22:18 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA20363 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 15:22:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJf1k-0001W4-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 15:22:16 -0500 Received: from letters.cs.ucsb.edu ([128.111.41.13]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJf1j-0001W1-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 15:22:15 -0500 Received: from yosemite.cs.ucsb.edu (yosemite [128.111.40.103]) by letters.cs.ucsb.edu (8.11.7+Sun/8.11.7) with ESMTP id hABKME224975 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 12:22:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from yosemite.cs.ucsb.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by yosemite.cs.ucsb.edu (8.12.8/8.11.6) with ESMTP id hABKMGIR011624 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 12:22:16 -0800 Received: from localhost (ebelding@localhost) by yosemite.cs.ucsb.edu (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id hABKMG9Q011620 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 12:22:16 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: yosemite.cs.ucsb.edu: ebelding owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 12:22:15 -0800 (PST) From: "Elizabeth M. Belding-Royer" To: manet@ietf.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [manet] AODV is up and running! Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , The AODV IETF network is back online and working. There were some technical difficulties with the infrastructured wireless network that forced us to be offline for awhile. Now those issues are solved and we are back online. If you are here, download an implementation from http://moment.cs.ucsb.edu/aodv-ietf and try it out. Be sure to disable wep, and set your windows preferences to ad hoc mode. Elizabeth _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 11 17:08:50 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA24059 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 17:08:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJgga-0001rs-Bv for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 17:08:32 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hABM8WB4007176 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 17:08:32 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJgga-0001rf-15 for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 17:08:32 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA24042 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 17:08:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJggX-00030y-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 17:08:29 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJggX-00030v-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 17:08:29 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJgg6-0001jV-FB; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 17:08:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJgfT-0001cm-UD for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 17:07:23 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA23997 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 17:07:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJgfR-00030c-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 17:07:21 -0500 Received: from ics09.uncc.edu ([152.15.42.137]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJgfQ-000303-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 17:07:21 -0500 Received: from ics09.uncc.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost.uncc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8FE63579A for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 17:06:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from carc210pc (carc210pc.uncc.edu [152.15.23.11]) by ics09.uncc.edu (Postfix) with SMTP id A8D8A3576B for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 17:06:50 -0500 (EST) From: "Asis Nasipuri" To: Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 17:07:26 -0500 Message-ID: <000c01c3a8a0$3105c000$0b170f98@uncc.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [manet] Call for papers: Workshop on Multihop Wireless Networks Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit *********************Call for Papers************************ ********** WORKSHOP ON MULTIHOP WIRELESS NETWORKS ********** in conjunction with 23rd IEEE International Performance Computing and Communications Conference (IPCCC) April 14-17, 2004, Phoenix, Arizona PROGRAM CHAIR: Asis Nasipuri, University of North Carolina at Charlotte. (anasipur@uncc.edu) SCOPE: Multihop networking has experienced rapid growth in the last decade with applications ranging from battlefield and disaster area networking to wireless LANs for the home and offices. Recent technological developments have led to newer possibilities for applications such as networking of large arrays of wireless sensors and development of wireless community networks. However, design of multihop networks continue to pose a myriad of challenging problems that exist across multiple disciplines. These include issues in the physical layer, network protocol development, operating system, low-power circuit design, signal processing, and distributed algorithms. The objective of this workshop is to bring together researchers on different aspects of the current issues on multihop wireless wireless networks with special emphasis on performance modeling and protocol development. We encourage submission of high-quality papers that report original work in both theoretical and experimental research areas. Topics of interest include, but are not limited to: - Physical layer design - Medium Access Control - Routing - Network Control and Management - Operating system and middleware - Data storage and database - Energy conservation techniques - Distributed and collaborative algorithms for multihop networks - Signal processing techniques - Performance evaluation and modeling of multihop networks - Security issues - Network reliability/survivability - Multimedia and QoS - Testbed results - Applications DATES: Deadlines for Submissions: December 6, 2003 Notification of Acceptance: December 29, 2003 Camera-Ready Copy Received: January 26, 2004 Workshop: April 14-17, 2004 SUBMISSION: Submit an extended abstract not exceeding 8 pages, including figures. A cover page containing the title, authors, descriptive keywords, and contact information of the corresponding author must be included. Postscript or Adobe pdf format are preferred. Submit by e-mail to the Workshop Chair (anasipur@uncc.edu). PAPERS: Papers must represent original work that has not been published in any other forum. All submitted papers will be refereed for originality, quality, contribution, and relevance to the scope of this workshop. At least one author must register for the conference by paying the full (non-student) registration fee and present the paper at the conference venue. All accepted papers will be published in the IPCCC proceedings by the IEEE press. Accepted papers will be limited to 6 pages in standard IEEE format. For any further information, please check the workshop web page at http://www.ece.uncc.edu/~anasipur/MWN/index.html or the IPCCC web page (http://www.ipccc.org) or send e-mail to the program chair. Dr. Asis Nasipuri Electrical & Computer Engineering The University of North Carolina at Charlotte 9201 University City Blvd Charlotte, NC 28223-0001 Phone: 704-687-3876 Fax: 704-687-2352 URL: www.ece.uncc.edu/~anasipur _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 11 20:11:35 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA02304 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 20:11:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJjXO-0000O4-5E for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 20:11:16 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAC1BEL2001482 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 20:11:14 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJjXO-0000Np-0s for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 20:11:14 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA02174 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 20:11:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJjXL-0005uw-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 20:11:11 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJjXL-0005us-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 20:11:11 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJjXC-0000G6-Ic; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 20:11:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJjWy-0008WA-4r for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 20:10:48 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA02129 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 20:10:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJjWw-0005tX-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 20:10:46 -0500 Received: from den.erg.sri.com ([128.18.100.23]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJjWv-0005t7-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 20:10:45 -0500 Received: from den.erg.sri.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by den.erg.sri.com (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA01937; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 17:10:08 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <200311120110.RAA01937@den.erg.sri.com> To: manet@ietf.org CC: ogier@erg.sri.com From: ogier@erg.sri.com Reply-to: ogier@erg.sri.com Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 17:10:08 -0800 Subject: [manet] My slides on OSPF extension for manets Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , You can find my slides on extending OSPF for manets here: http://www.erg.sri.com/projects/tbrpf/docs/ogier-manet-ospf-extension.ppt I am not scheduled to present these at the meeting on Thursday, but I will keep my TBRPF talk short so that we may have time to discuss this approach near the end of the meeting. Richard _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 11 20:16:12 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA02598 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 20:16:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJjXc-0000X9-93 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 20:11:31 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAC1BPaO001733 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 20:11:25 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJjXZ-0000Ro-03 for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 20:11:25 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA02195 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 20:11:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJjXW-0005vV-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 20:11:22 -0500 Received: from manatick.foretec.com ([4.17.168.5] helo=manatick) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJjXW-0005vL-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 20:11:22 -0500 Received: from [132.151.6.22] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by manatick with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1AJjM1-00053d-Sb for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 19:59:34 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJjLb-0007LM-6r; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 19:59:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJjLD-0007KH-Hf for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 19:58:39 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA01803 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 19:58:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJjLB-0005iK-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 19:58:37 -0500 Received: from patty.levels.unisa.edu.au ([130.220.36.156]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJjLA-0005iH-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 19:58:36 -0500 Received: from spri.levels.unisa.edu.au (morpheus [172.17.0.143]) by patty.levels.unisa.edu.au (8.12.10/8.12.2) with ESMTP id hAC0wTv1008034; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:28:30 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <3FB185B2.2010807@spri.levels.unisa.edu.au> Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:28:26 +1030 From: Peter Pham User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020830 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bjkwak CC: manet@ietf.org, Dong Zheng Subject: Re: [manet] Question on 802.11DCF References: <3FAED82E.7020007@spri.levels.unisa.edu.au> <006f01c3a723$307df180$e4f02e93@oahu> <3FAF16A8.50205@spri.levels.unisa.edu.au> <1068440681.29000.21.camel@wind1> <3FAFCBFF.586756CE@nist.gov> <1068500529.29000.45.camel@wind1> <3FB0208D.F08AC7B4@nist.gov> <1068506691.28780.89.camel@wind1> <3FB11DFA.48D4687D@nist.gov> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all There are two concerns here Firstly, this is the ns2 code when receiving a packet from the upper layer. Focusing on the first case of the switch on what Byung-Jae said , in this case backoff is already performed therefore it will go to the true part of the if statement. The defer is also not busy, therefore it start defering a DIFS + random slot time of the windows. It only Tx the packet after finishing the defer. If what Byung-Jae stated is true, ns2 code is false which casts doubts on simulations results from ns2. */ if(mhBackoff_.busy() == 0) { if(is_idle()) { /* * If we are already deferring, there is no * need to reset the Defer timer. */ if(mhDefer_.busy() == 0) { rTime = (Random::random() % cw_) * (phymib_->SlotTime); mhDefer_.start(difs_ + rTime); } } /* * If the medium is NOT IDLE, then we start * the backoff timer. */ else { mhBackoff_.start(cw_, is_idle()); } } Secondly, please correct me if I am wrong... If it is like what you said then the node will have to wait 2 DIFS in the second and third case of the switch ? Please look at the comment with the # ****************************************************** normal packoff procedure: waiting DIFS + choosing random number + counting down. ****************************************************** STA A Tx a packet; STA A receives an ACK; STA A waits for DIFS; STA A choose a random number for backoff and counts down to zero; If (STA A has a packet in the queue) then STA A Tx the packet; else STA A waits until a packet arrives; switch (channel idle time) case (the channel has been idle for more than DIFS): STA A Tx the packet right away; case (the channel has been idle for T_idle < DIFS): STA A waits for DIFS - T_idle; // -> therefore wait totally one DIFS here STA A enters a normal backoff procedure; //wait another DIFS + random number of slot time here case (the channel is busy) STA A waits until the channel becomes idle; STA A waits DIFS; // one DIFS STA A enters a normal backoff procedure; //wait another DIFS + random slot time here endswitch endif I hope that it makes sense now! bjkwak wrote: >Hi Dong, > >Dong Zheng wrote: > > >>Hi, Byung, >> >> > >It is Byung-Jae :) > > > >>It seems that our understanding bifurcates from the clause "In general, >>a STA may transmit ..., when the STA determines that the medium is idle >>for greater than or equal to a DIFS period ..." In my understanding, the >>STA determines that the medium will be idle for DIFS, however, your >>understanding is that the STA determines that the medium has been idle >>for more than DIFS. But a closer look at Fig. 51 tells that the STA will >>wait for DIFS instead of checking the channel has been idle for DIFS. >> >>Can sb. else help us clarify this confusion? ;-) >> >> >> >>>What I understand is as follows: >>> >>>Node A Tx a packet; >>>Node A receives an ACK; >>>Node A starts a backoff procedure: >>> choose random backoff and count down; >>> >>> >>If the average of this backoff time is less than DIFS ... >> >> >> >>>If the queue was not empty at the time of reception of ACK >>> then >>> Enter normal backoff procedure; >>> >>> >>then it will give priority to this node cause other nodes will wait for >>DIFS before they can enter the backoff procedure. >> >> >> >>> else // Queue was empty >>> If a packet arrives before the backoff counter expires >>> Then >>> Wait until the timer expire; >>> Tx the packet after DIFS idle time; >>> else // A packet arrives after the timer expires >>> If channel has been idle for more than DIFS >>> then >>> Tx the packet right away; >>> else >>> Enter normal backoff procedure; >>> endif >>> endif >>>endif >>> >>> > >I guess I was not clear enough in my description. >Below is an improved version. > >Note: In my original description, the "normal backoff >procedure" was meant to be: > > waiting DIFS + choosing random number + counting down. > >In the new description below, it does not include the >DIFS to be clearer. > >STA A Tx a packet; >STA A receives an ACK; >STA A waits for DIFS; >STA A choose a random number for backoff and counts down to zero; >If (STA A has a packet in the queue) > then > STA A Tx the packet; > else > STA A waits until a packet arrives; > switch (channel idle time) > case (the channel has been idle for more than DIFS): > STA A Tx the packet right away; > case (the channel has been idle for T_idle < DIFS): > STA A waits for DIFS - T_idle; > STA A enters a normal backoff procedure; > case (the channel is busy) > STA A waits until the channel becomes idle; > STA A waits DIFS; > STA A enters a normal backoff procedure; > endswitch >endif > >I hope that it makes sense now! > >Thanks! > >Byung-Jae Kwak >------------------------------------------ >Wireless Communication Technologies Group >Advanced Network Technologies Division >NIST, MD > > > _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 11 21:16:36 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA04086 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 21:16:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJkYL-0004i8-BW for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 21:16:17 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAC2GHlX018102 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 21:16:17 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJkYL-0004ht-6v for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 21:16:17 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA04046 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 21:16:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJkYI-0006lO-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 21:16:14 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJkYI-0006lL-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 21:16:14 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJkY5-0004dc-NH; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 21:16:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJkXO-0004c1-SF for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 21:15:18 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA04027 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 21:15:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJkXM-0006ie-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 21:15:16 -0500 Received: from po1.glue.umd.edu ([128.8.10.97]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJkXL-0006ib-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 21:15:15 -0500 Received: from z.glue.umd.edu (IDENT:sendmail@z.glue.umd.edu [128.8.10.71]) by po1.glue.umd.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAC2FAcb001005 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 21:15:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (thsalon@localhost) by z.glue.umd.edu (8.11.6-20030924/8.11.6) with ESMTP id hAC2FFu07707 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 21:15:16 -0500 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: z.glue.umd.edu: thsalon owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 21:15:15 -0500 (EST) From: Theodoros Salonidis To: manet@ietf.org Subject: RE: [manet] OSPF extensions for manets Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Dear Manet-OSPF work group, Extending OSPF to MANETs is an attractive idea for several reasons. However (for an equal number of reasons :-) ) I was wondering what MANET sizes or mobility scenarios could be supported by a link state protocol. Is there a desired MANET environment or application towards which this effort is geared? Or is it because it may become easier to be globally adopted, being a wireless extension of an existing standard? Regards, Theodoros -------------------------------------------------- Theodoros Salonidis Ph.D. Candidate Institute of Systems Research & Dept. of Electrical and Computer Engineering University of Maryland, College Park 3187 A.V. Williams Bldg. College Park, MD 20742 (301) 405-2942 thsalon@eng.umd.edu http://www.ece.umd.edu/~thsalon --------------------------------------------------------- On Mon, 10 Nov 2003, Joe Macker wrote: > At 01:16 PM 11/10/2003, Henderson, Thomas R wrote: > >Richard, > >Thanks for your comments and list of issues. As I mentioned to > >you previously, I agree that some of these technical choices > >need to be discussed further, once the IETF decides whether > >or not this becomes a work effort. Hopefully there will be > >strong support for the problem statement that will be presented > >at the OSPF and MANET WGs this week, and we can then focus on > >the particulars of the solution via a design team. > > We will have time for presentations and issues at the meeting. > The main goal, however, is to determine if the problem statement can be used > to move forward with a design team approach. This is one possible way > forward for some of the proactive "lessons learned" to transition. > > Of course, there are new issues too. > > -Joe > > >Tom > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Richard Ogier [mailto:ogier@erg.sri.com] > >> Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2003 10:00 PM > >> To: manet@ietf.org > >> Cc: ogier@erg.sri.com > >> Subject: [manet] OSPF extensions for manets > >> > >> > >> I would like to offer some comments on: > >> > >> draft-spagnolo-manet-ospf-wireless-interface-00.txt > >> > >> and to compare it with the solution in > >> > >> http://www.erg.sri.com/projects/tbrpf/docs/draft-ogier-manet-o > >> spf-extension-00.txt > >> > >... > > > >_______________________________________________ > >manet mailing list > >manet@ietf.org > >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet > > > > _______________________________________________ > manet mailing list > manet@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet > -------------------------------------------------- Theodoros Salonidis Ph.D. Candidate Institute of Systems Research & Dept. of Electrical and Computer Engineering University of Maryland, College Park 3187 A.V. Williams Bldg. College Park, MD 20742 (301) 405-2942 thsalon@eng.umd.edu http://www.ece.umd.edu/~thsalon --------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Nov 12 00:43:31 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA09259 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 00:43:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJnmb-0001SD-Ca for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 00:43:14 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAC5hDxF005583 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 00:43:13 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJnmb-0001Ry-7U for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 00:43:13 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA09238 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 00:42:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJnmY-0001F8-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 00:43:10 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJnmY-0001F5-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 00:43:10 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJnmQ-0001Qr-9V; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 00:43:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJnly-0001QB-Lz for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 00:42:34 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA09230 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 00:42:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJnlv-0001Er-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 00:42:31 -0500 Received: from turkey.mail.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.120.126]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJnlv-0001Eo-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 00:42:31 -0500 Received: from [165.121.166.93] (helo=erg.sri.com) by turkey.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AJnlv-0002iI-00; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 21:42:31 -0800 Message-ID: <3FB1C843.4070900@erg.sri.com> Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 21:42:27 -0800 From: Richard Ogier User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011128 Netscape6/6.2.1 (emach0202) X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: manet@ietf.org CC: ogier@erg.sri.com Subject: Re: [manet] OSPF extensions for manets References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have some comments on the strategy of the working group. On Thursday, Thomas Henderson will discuss an initial solution to the problem of extending OSPF, using MPRs and unreliable flooding. As he has said, this is only an initial solution that needs work, and other solutions will also be considered. There is clearly no consensus on whether the OSPF extension should use MPRs or a CDS, and on whether it should use reliable flooding. This is indicated in Fred Baker's slides, where he uses the term "overlapping relays" instead of CDS, and where he discusses the problems with unreliable flooding. However, the draft by Henderson et al. describes an extension that uses MPRs and unreliable, periodic flooding (even though he claims that future versions may use reliable flooding). Therefore, since the draft describes a protocol that does not agree with working group consensus, it would make no sense to accept the draft as is. We first need to agree on the general design of the protocol, e.g., should it use a CDS or MPRS? Should it use reliable flooding? One argument I heard was that the draft should be considered as an initial solution because it has been implemented. I don't think that is important at this early stage, when the problem statement has just been announced and we haven't even agreed on what the protocol should look like. Having an implementation is irrelevant if the protocol does not have consensus of the working group. Besides, this is apparently a recent implementation, so another extension could be implemented within a few months, and waiting a few months is a small price to pay considering that people will have to live with the resulting standard for many years. But this brings up another issue. How can we be sure that the design team will make the right decisions, and will give fair consideration to the alternative solutions proposed by the working group? I'm not saying the team will not give fair consideration to alternative solutions, but there is no guarantee that they will. One answer to this is something that I have suggested before. We should make it so that anyone who proposes an alternative technique can run simulations (or have someone else run simulations) to determine how their technique affects performance on an agreed set of scenarios (such as the ones being developed by the ANS research group). This is not research, but a selection process to help decide between alternative designs. (Of course, performance is not the only criteria, but is an important one.) In addition, it would be good to have an arbitrator, someone who everyone agrees would be fair and unbiased. I think Fred Baker would be a good choice, since he is giving fair consideration to alternative solutions, and has not been involved in the MANET fighting of the past. Regards, Richard _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Nov 12 10:12:35 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA20945 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:12:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJwfI-0006lQ-Pn for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:12:17 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hACFCG2v025996 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:12:16 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJwfI-0006lD-Jm for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:12:16 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA20905 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:12:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJwfG-00005Q-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:12:14 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJwfF-00005N-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:12:13 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJwf3-0006js-U6; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:12:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJweD-0006ii-Be for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:11:09 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA20786 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:10:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJweA-00004z-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:11:06 -0500 Received: from cms4.etri.re.kr ([129.254.16.14] helo=cms4.cms.etri.re.kr) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJweA-00004i-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:11:06 -0500 Received: from jafymobile (dyn133-209.ietf58.ietf.org [130.129.133.209]) by cms4.cms.etri.re.kr with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2657.72) id WA8PZP9G; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 00:06:29 +0900 Reply-To: From: "HyunWook Cha" To: Subject: RE: [manet] OSPF extensions for manets Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 09:10:27 -0600 Organization: ETRI Message-ID: <003401c3a92f$1d3cd970$d1858182@jafymobile> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, folks. Yeah, I also want to know that. Is there anybody who can tell why these approaches should be dealt with high priority? I think that many people may have same curiosity. Please, answer before forwarding. Thanks in advance. HyunWook Cha > -----Original Message----- > From: manet-admin@ietf.org [mailto:manet-admin@ietf.org] On > Behalf Of Theodoros Salonidis > Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2003 8:15 PM > To: manet@ietf.org > Subject: RE: [manet] OSPF extensions for manets > > > > > Dear Manet-OSPF work group, > > Extending OSPF to MANETs is an attractive > idea for several reasons. However (for an equal > number of reasons :-) ) I was wondering what MANET > sizes or mobility scenarios could be supported > by a link state protocol. > > Is there a desired MANET environment or application > towards which this effort is geared? > Or is it because it may become easier to be globally > adopted, being a wireless extension of an existing standard? > > Regards, > > Theodoros > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------- > Theodoros Salonidis > Ph.D. Candidate > > Institute of Systems Research & > Dept. of Electrical and Computer Engineering > University of Maryland, College Park > 3187 A.V. Williams Bldg. > College Park, MD 20742 > > (301) 405-2942 > thsalon@eng.umd.edu > http://www.ece.umd.edu/~thsalon > --------------------------------------------------------- > > > > On Mon, 10 Nov 2003, Joe Macker wrote: > > > At 01:16 PM 11/10/2003, Henderson, Thomas R wrote: > > >Richard, > > >Thanks for your comments and list of issues. As I mentioned to > > >you previously, I agree that some of these technical choices > > >need to be discussed further, once the IETF decides whether > > >or not this becomes a work effort. Hopefully there will be > > >strong support for the problem statement that will be presented > > >at the OSPF and MANET WGs this week, and we can then focus on > > >the particulars of the solution via a design team. > > > > We will have time for presentations and issues at the meeting. > > The main goal, however, is to determine if the problem > statement can be used > > to move forward with a design team approach. This is one > possible way > > forward for some of the proactive "lessons learned" to transition. > > > > Of course, there are new issues too. > > > > -Joe > > > > >Tom > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: Richard Ogier [mailto:ogier@erg.sri.com] > > >> Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2003 10:00 PM > > >> To: manet@ietf.org > > >> Cc: ogier@erg.sri.com > > >> Subject: [manet] OSPF extensions for manets > > >> > > >> > > >> I would like to offer some comments on: > > >> > > >> draft-spagnolo-manet-ospf-wireless-interface-00.txt > > >> > > >> and to compare it with the solution in > > >> > > >> http://www.erg.sri.com/projects/tbrpf/docs/draft-ogier-manet-o > > >> spf-extension-00.txt > > >> > > >... > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > > >manet mailing list > > >manet@ietf.org > > >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > manet mailing list > > manet@ietf.org > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet > > > > -------------------------------------------------- > Theodoros Salonidis > Ph.D. Candidate > > Institute of Systems Research & > Dept. of Electrical and Computer Engineering > University of Maryland, College Park > 3187 A.V. Williams Bldg. > College Park, MD 20742 > > (301) 405-2942 > thsalon@eng.umd.edu > http://www.ece.umd.edu/~thsalon > --------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > manet mailing list > manet@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet > _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Nov 12 10:51:32 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA23588 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:51:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJxH1-00012f-7L for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:51:15 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hACFpFrW003994 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:51:15 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJxH0-00012G-S0 for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:51:14 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA23537 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:51:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJxGy-0000rG-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:51:12 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJxGx-0000rC-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:51:11 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJxGo-0000vQ-U4; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:51:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJxGO-0000nT-Az for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:50:36 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA23366 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:50:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJxGL-0000mi-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:50:33 -0500 Received: from web40604.mail.yahoo.com ([66.218.78.141]) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJxGL-0000lr-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:50:33 -0500 Message-ID: <20031112154955.73393.qmail@web40604.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [132.204.100.226] by web40604.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 16:49:55 CET Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 16:49:55 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?redouane?= To: manet@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ietf.org id KAA23368 Subject: [manet] tora ietf draft Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi I need tora ietf draft for understanding implemtation of this protocol. there is a link for this? thanks redouane ___________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? -- Une adresse @yahoo.fr gratuite et en fran=E7ais ! Yahoo! Mail : http://fr.mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Nov 12 11:05:38 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA24228 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:05:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJxUe-0002RF-Bm for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:05:21 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hACG5K71009373 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:05:20 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJxUd-0002R6-V9 for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:05:19 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA24203 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:05:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJxUb-00019A-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:05:17 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJxUa-000197-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:05:16 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJxUM-0002Je-9I; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:05:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJxTb-0002Im-IX for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:04:15 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA24177 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:04:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJxTY-000184-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:04:13 -0500 Received: from tokyo.netlab.nec.de ([195.37.70.2] helo=tokyo.ccrle.nec.de) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJxTY-00017O-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:04:12 -0500 Received: from tokyo.ccrle.nec.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tokyo.ccrle.nec.de (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hACG3eD1004966 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 17:03:41 +0100 (CET) Received: (from defang@localhost) by tokyo.ccrle.nec.de (8.12.10/8.12.8/Submit) id hACG0o3r004718 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 17:00:50 +0100 (CET) X-Authentication-Warning: tokyo.ccrle.nec.de: defang set sender to using -f Received: from venus.office (venus.office [10.1.1.11]) by pluto.office (8.12.9/8.12.9+MIMEDefang) with ESMTP id hACG0oCx004715; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 17:00:50 +0100 (CET) Received: from [10.0.1.12] (girao.office [10.1.1.176]) by venus.office (Postfix on SuSE Linux eMail Server 3.0) with ESMTP id 332BBDE34D; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 17:00:49 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: [manet] tora ietf draft From: Joao Girao To: redouane Cc: manet@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <20031112154955.73393.qmail@web40604.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20031112154955.73393.qmail@web40604.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-xHC29LcjRm0Qz8H+MOGe" Organization: Network Laboratories Heidelberg Message-Id: <1068652848.5503.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.2.4 Date: 12 Nov 2003 17:01:03 +0100 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , --=-xHC29LcjRm0Qz8H+MOGe Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable You'll find a link in the mirror archives of the ietf drafts. For example: ftp://ftp.fccn.pt/pub/IETF/Internet-Drafts/draft-ietf-manet-tora-spec-05.tx= t joao girao On Wed, 2003-11-12 at 16:49, redouane wrote: > Hi > I need tora ietf draft for understanding implemtation > of this protocol. > there is a link for this? > thanks >=20 > redouane >=20 >=20 > ___________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? -- Une adresse @yahoo.fr gratuite et en fran=C3=A7ais ! > Yahoo! Mail : http://fr.mail.yahoo.com >=20 > _______________________________________________ > manet mailing list > manet@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet --=20 Jo=C3=A3o Gir=C3=A3o (Joao.Girao@ccrle.nec.de) NEC Europe Ltd., Network Laboratories Tel. (+49) 6221 90511-17 Fax: (+49) 6221 90511-55 --=-xHC29LcjRm0Qz8H+MOGe Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQA/slkrzT+O0HlWj/8RApeEAJ4yQ2unqVpxve2cT2w1Aa6A84LbNACfa6kI orm3O4Mk66fcSPzcd5bt2J4= =cjBB -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-xHC29LcjRm0Qz8H+MOGe-- _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Nov 12 11:30:40 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA25604 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:30:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJxsq-0004nQ-0T for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:30:22 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hACGUJ7Y018430 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:30:19 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJxsp-0004nB-Sx for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:30:19 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA25584 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:30:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJxso-0001bq-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:30:18 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJxso-0001bi-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:30:18 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJxsY-0004l0-O0; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:30:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJxsB-0004kE-FJ for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:29:39 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA25554 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:29:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJxsA-0001b7-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:29:38 -0500 Received: from dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr ([130.79.44.193]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJxs9-0001b3-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:29:37 -0500 Received: from dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr (patinet.u-strasbg.fr [130.79.90.172]) by dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian-6.6) with ESMTP id hACGeEnu008745; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 17:40:14 +0100 Message-ID: <3FB25FB5.2090303@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr> Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 17:28:37 +0100 From: Christophe Jelger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.0.0) Gecko/20020623 Debian/1.0.0-0.woody.1 X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: manet@ietf.org, "'autonet'" Subject: Re: [manet] Comment on manet gateway autoconf draft. References: <000001c3a422$93532950$ae70fe81@jafywinxp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi HyunWook / all, Well I agree when you say that using a routing header maximizes prefix stability. If we also want to maintain transport layer sessions then we also need something like your proposal (or MIPv6). I am not opposed to the use of routing header, in fact I'm mainly worried about the complexity to write some code that needs to add a routing header. I guess this has to be kernel code, I don't know if it can written as an external module or not, and how complex it is for a lambda user to install such code. If anybode has experienced in writing code with routing header can give us some hints he is very welcome. ;-) I think MIPv6 is a good example of what I mean : a user that is not experienced with Linux cannot install it easily. I personaly think that it can refrain people from using it, mainly because it is too complex to setup. Note that with our proposal, we can also use routing headers, but decided not to include it in the draft because we wanted to avoid this (unknown) complexity (when writing the code). Our proposal (developed by Arnaud Frey) is already implemented as a (user level) daemon which can be installed by any user that knows how to use a shell. The code is still in a debugging state, a few things have to be checked and validated but a first beta version should be available soon. Christophe HyunWook Cha wrote: >If the main purpose of maintenance of prefix continuity is to avoid >routing header, I do not agree. IMO, usage of routing header has >following advantages. >- not require prefix continuity, but prefix stability can be maximized. >As long as a node can find route information for a gateway, it can >refresh its address. This can help tranport layer survivability. >- can use the shortest path established by routing protocol. This can >compensate bandwidth consumption caused by routing header while >traffics can traverse non-optimal paths without routing header. >- ok when intermediate nodes do not want internet connectivity or not >yet configure its global address just after bootstraping. It needs only >route information for a gateway through RREQ and RREP exchange. > >What do you think about this? > >Regards, > >HyunWook Cha > > _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Nov 12 11:30:41 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA25617 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:30:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJxss-0004nl-Sq for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:30:23 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hACGUM1S018451 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:30:22 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJxss-0004nW-OB for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:30:22 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA25587 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:30:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJxso-0001bp-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:30:18 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJxso-0001bh-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:30:18 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJxsZ-0004lA-Sd; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:30:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJxsQ-0004ke-N7 for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:29:54 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA25569 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:29:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJxsP-0001bR-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:29:53 -0500 Received: from itc100.adtran.com ([66.0.238.100] helo=srv-exchange2.adtran.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJxsP-0001bO-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:29:53 -0500 Received: by srv-exchange2.adtran.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:29:49 -0600 Message-ID: <39B01E2189D99F4B8C9612462DB3922A0CEBA91F@srv-exchange.adtran.com> From: DANIEL BYRNE To: "'Joao Girao'" , redouane Cc: manet@ietf.org Subject: RE: [manet] tora ietf draft Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:29:48 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable That link is broken -----Original Message----- From: Joao Girao [mailto:Joao.Girao@ccrle.nec.de] Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2003 10:01 AM To: redouane Cc: manet@ietf.org Subject: Re: [manet] tora ietf draft You'll find a link in the mirror archives of the ietf drafts. For example: ftp://ftp.fccn.pt/pub/IETF/Internet-Drafts/draft-ietf-manet-tora-spec-05= .txt joao girao On Wed, 2003-11-12 at 16:49, redouane wrote: > Hi > I need tora ietf draft for understanding implemtation > of this protocol. > there is a link for this? > thanks >=20 > redouane >=20 >=20 > ___________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? -- Une adresse @yahoo.fr gratuite et en fran=C3=A7ais = ! > Yahoo! Mail : http://fr.mail.yahoo.com >=20 > _______________________________________________ > manet mailing list > manet@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet --=20 Jo=C3=A3o Gir=C3=A3o (Joao.Girao@ccrle.nec.de) NEC Europe Ltd., Network Laboratories Tel. (+49) 6221 90511-17 Fax: (+49) 6221 90511-55 _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Nov 12 11:36:27 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA25988 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:36:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJxyT-0005pY-Ms for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:36:09 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hACGa9tx022406 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:36:09 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJxyT-0005pJ-JA for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:36:09 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA25961 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:35:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJxyS-0001m7-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:36:08 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJxyS-0001m4-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:36:08 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJxyN-0005kx-4L; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:36:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJxxf-0005hm-KZ for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:35:19 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA25925 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:35:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJxxe-0001l1-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:35:18 -0500 Received: from itc100.adtran.com ([66.0.238.100] helo=srv-exchange2.adtran.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJxxe-0001kw-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:35:18 -0500 Received: by srv-exchange2.adtran.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:35:11 -0600 Message-ID: <39B01E2189D99F4B8C9612462DB3922A0CEBA920@srv-exchange.adtran.com> From: DANIEL BYRNE To: manet@ietf.org Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:35:10 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Subject: [manet] AODV Question Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , if the "AODV routing protocol is designed for mobile ad hoc networks with populations of tens to thousands of mobile nodes" why is the HopCount limited to only a BYTE? This effectively limits the number of hops to 255. Why not expand the hop count to two bytes into the reseved region of the RREQ packet. Something similar could be done with the RREP packet as well. _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Nov 12 12:03:53 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA27578 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 12:03:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJyOv-0000NQ-DE for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 12:03:36 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hACH3THw001448 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 12:03:29 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJyOv-0000NH-7S for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 12:03:29 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA27527 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 12:03:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJyOt-0002Nu-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 12:03:27 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJyOt-0002Nr-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 12:03:27 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJyOU-0000Ev-FF; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 12:03:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJyNo-0000Dj-Ne for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 12:02:20 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA27407 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 12:02:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJyNn-0002LJ-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 12:02:19 -0500 Received: from concorde.inria.fr ([192.93.2.39]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJyNm-0002Kk-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 12:02:18 -0500 Received: from zephyrin (byzantium.inria.fr [128.93.17.6]) by concorde.inria.fr (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id hACH1R122042; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 18:01:27 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <008301c3a93e$7e53e640$1f175d80@inria.fr> From: "Philippe Jacquet" To: "Richard Ogier" , Cc: References: <3FB1C843.4070900@erg.sri.com> Subject: Re: [manet] OSPF extensions for manets Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 18:00:35 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Richard, I don't think there is any conceptual conflict between MPR, CDS and overlapping relays. To be short MPR is a practical implementation of CDS. Since it is now mature enough, it is proposed in a draft for a wireless extension of OSPF. MPRs contain nice features that have been added by the working group during the past years such as "willingness to forward" parameter, adaptability to link qualities, possibility of drastic reduction of advertized link set size, etc. However they are certainly not yet absolutely optimal, since optimal CDS selection is an NP hard problem. If you give me a polynomial algorithm that select a good CDS, I will find another polynomial algorithm that select a better CDS;-) However, MPRs have shown acceptable performance so far that we did not find practical algorithms that significantly outperform it. Best regards, Philippe ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Ogier To: Cc: Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2003 6:42 AM Subject: Re: [manet] OSPF extensions for manets > I have some comments on the strategy of the working group. > On Thursday, Thomas Henderson will discuss an initial solution to the > problem of extending OSPF, using MPRs and unreliable flooding. > As he has said, this is only an initial solution that needs work, > and other solutions will also be considered. > > There is clearly no consensus on whether the OSPF extension should > use MPRs or a CDS, and on whether it should use reliable flooding. > This is indicated in Fred Baker's slides, where he uses the term > "overlapping relays" instead of CDS, and where he discusses the > problems with unreliable flooding. > > However, the draft by Henderson et al. describes an extension that > uses MPRs and unreliable, periodic flooding (even though he claims > that future versions may use reliable flooding). > Therefore, since the draft describes a protocol that does not > agree with working group consensus, it would make no sense to > accept the draft as is. > > We first need to agree on the general design of the protocol, e.g., > should it use a CDS or MPRS? Should it use reliable flooding? > > One argument I heard was that the draft should be considered > as an initial solution because it has been implemented. I don't > think that is important at this early stage, when the problem > statement has just been announced and we haven't even agreed on > what the protocol should look like. > Having an implementation is irrelevant if the protocol does not > have consensus of the working group. > > Besides, this is apparently a recent implementation, so another > extension could be implemented within a few months, and waiting > a few months is a small price to pay considering that people > will have to live with the resulting standard for many years. > > But this brings up another issue. How can we be sure that > the design team will make the right decisions, and will give > fair consideration to the alternative solutions proposed > by the working group? I'm not saying the team will not give > fair consideration to alternative solutions, but there is no > guarantee that they will. > > One answer to this is something that I have suggested before. > We should make it so that anyone who proposes an alternative > technique can run simulations (or have someone else run simulations) > to determine how their technique affects performance on an agreed > set of scenarios (such as the ones being developed by the ANS > research group). This is not research, but a selection process > to help decide between alternative designs. (Of course, performance > is not the only criteria, but is an important one.) > > In addition, it would be good to have an arbitrator, someone who > everyone agrees would be fair and unbiased. I think Fred Baker would > be a good choice, since he is giving fair consideration to alternative > solutions, and has not been involved in the MANET fighting of the past. > > Regards, > Richard > > > _______________________________________________ > manet mailing list > manet@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Nov 12 12:49:37 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA29599 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 12:49:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJz7I-0003vE-8w for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 12:49:20 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hACHnK6n015070 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 12:49:20 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJz7I-0003uz-5X for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 12:49:20 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA29577 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 12:49:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJz7G-00034o-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 12:49:18 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJz7G-00034l-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 12:49:18 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJz6z-0003tY-I9; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 12:49:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJz6u-0003t3-Lp for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 12:48:56 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA29540 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 12:48:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJz6s-00034P-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 12:48:54 -0500 Received: from web60202.mail.yahoo.com ([216.109.118.97]) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJz6s-00034F-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 12:48:54 -0500 Message-ID: <20031112174822.95258.qmail@web60202.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [211.102.13.201] by web60202.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 09:48:22 PST Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 09:48:22 -0800 (PST) From: Qing Zhang To: manet MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-2011555006-1068659302=:95126" Subject: [manet] Re: [ns] bug wireless routing protocolls? Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , --0-2011555006-1068659302=:95126 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii hi, Martin Kohlwes: I don't think it is a bug. I think the IP-header is used to indicate the routing destination. When DSRAgent send the packet to Linklayer, we can see code like this in ll.cc: hdr_ip *ih = HDR_IP(p); nsaddr_t dst = (nsaddr_t)Address::instance().get_nodeaddr(ih->daddr()); ^^^^^^^^it was set in DSRAgent To different type of common head( NS_AF_ILINK, NS_AF_INET, NS_AF_NONE), the destination "dst" can also be changed. But I don't know the meaning of "NS_AF_ILINK, NS_AF_INET, NS_AF_NONE", Does anybody know it? > >Hi everyone, > >in the wireless routing protocols (AODV, DSDV, DSR...) there is always a line >like: > ch->size() += IP_HDR_LEN; >It adds 20 bytes to the packet. This was apparently done, to include an >IP-header. But it is realy strange for two reasons: > >1. If we use TCP, we already start with a packet (size 40 bytes) which >includes TCP _and_ IP header. > >2. In chapter 16.1.1 (creating wireless topology) of the ns-manual there is a >flow chart showing the way of a packet through the different layers. >The routing-agent (which adds the 20 bytes) is only passed on the way down >(towards physical layer) - not on the way up (towards the application). So >there is no peer entity, which could take away this overhead. > >Most of the applications don't seem to care of receiving larger packets than >the ones that were sent, but FullTcp does. > >All suggestions are welcome, > Martin (Aachen, Germany) > --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard --0-2011555006-1068659302=:95126 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

hi, Martin Kohlwes:
   I don't think it is a bug. I think the IP-header is used to indicate
the routing destination.
   When DSRAgent send the packet to Linklayer, we can see code like this in ll.cc:
 hdr_ip *ih = HDR_IP(p);
 nsaddr_t dst = (nsaddr_t)Address::instance().get_nodeaddr(ih->daddr());
                                                                                    ^^^^^^^^it was set in DSRAgent
    To different type of common head( NS_AF_ILINK,  NS_AF_INET, NS_AF_NONE), the destination "dst" can also be changed. But I don't know the meaning of "NS_AF_ILINK,  NS_AF_INET, NS_AF_NONE", Does anybody know it?
 
>
>Hi everyone,
>
>in the wireless routing protocols (AODV, DSDV, DSR...) there is always a line
>like:
>      ch->size() += IP_HDR_LEN;
>It adds 20 bytes to the packet. This was apparently done, to include an
>IP-header. But it is realy strange for two reasons:
>
>1. If we use TCP, we already start with a packet (size 40 bytes) which
>includes TCP _and_ IP header.
>
>2. In chapter 16.1.1 (creating wireless topology) of the ns-manual there is a
>flow chart showing the way of a packet through the different layers.
>The routing-agent (which adds the 20 bytes) is only passed on the way down
>(towards physical layer) - not on the way up (towards the application). So
>there is no peer entity, which could take away this overhead.
>
>Most of the applications don't seem to care of receiving larger packets than
>the ones that we! re sent, but FullTcp does.
>
>All suggestions are welcome,
> Martin (Aachen, Germany)
>

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Mail AddressGuard --0-2011555006-1068659302=:95126-- _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Nov 12 13:02:38 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA00146 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 13:02:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJzJo-0004to-TT for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 13:02:21 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hACI2GPc018826 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 13:02:16 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJzJo-0004tZ-Od for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 13:02:16 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA00084 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 13:02:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJzJm-0003FE-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 13:02:14 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJzJm-0003FA-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 13:02:14 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJzJa-0004iU-8j; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 13:02:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJzIy-0004hb-09 for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 13:01:24 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA00058 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 13:01:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJzIw-0003Eg-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 13:01:22 -0500 Received: from s2.itd.nrl.navy.mil ([132.250.83.3]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJzIv-0003EX-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 13:01:21 -0500 Received: from smtp.itd.nrl.navy.mil (smtp.itd.nrl.navy.mil [132.250.86.3]) by s2.itd.nrl.navy.mil (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.8) with SMTP id hACI0bMu022842; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 13:00:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from SEXTANT.itd.nrl.navy.mil ([132.250.92.22]) by smtp.itd.nrl.navy.mil (SAVSMTP 3.1.2.35) with SMTP id M2003111213003921030 ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 13:00:39 -0500 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.2.20031112123725.026cf298@pop.itd.nrl.navy.mil> X-Sender: macker@pop.itd.nrl.navy.mil (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 13:02:57 -0500 To: Theodoros Salonidis , manet@ietf.org From: Joe Macker Subject: RE: [manet] OSPF extensions for manets In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , At 09:15 PM 11/11/2003, Theodoros Salonidis wrote: >Dear Manet-OSPF work group, > >Extending OSPF to MANETs is an attractive >idea for several reasons. However (for an equal >number of reasons :-) ) I was wondering what MANET >sizes or mobility scenarios could be supported >by a link state protocol. First off, it is not my belief that extending OSPF with a MANET interface and other optimizations is the only MANET solution that is needed. At the last few meetings there seemed to be rough consensus on proceeding forward with a proactive and a reactive track. This is a POSSIBLE AREA for proactive "lessons learned" to transition. In fact, its already happening. There is energy here from a vendor and previous author community to we are pursuing discussion. MANET-like optimizations (e.g., flooding improvements) will provide some scaling improvements intraarea. Mobility support will be improved by allowing peer areas to be larger The MANET-like wireless interface is needed. I don't think there is much question of that. >Is there a desired MANET environment or application >towards which this effort is geared? >Or is it because it may become easier to be globally >adopted, being a wireless extension of an existing standard? In my opinion, there are a number of pragmatic hybrid wireless networks where this would apply. OSPF has some clear advantages there.. Once again, I think it may only address moderate mobility initially but may help address more heterogeneous environment and improve MANET-like support in backbone wireless networks.. In my PDA, I would prefer to run something lighterweight ;-) I think your second observation is also true to a degree. I have heard vendor feedback to that tune. > Regards, > > Theodoros > > > > > >-------------------------------------------------- >Theodoros Salonidis >Ph.D. Candidate > >Institute of Systems Research & >Dept. of Electrical and Computer Engineering >University of Maryland, College Park >3187 A.V. Williams Bldg. >College Park, MD 20742 > >(301) 405-2942 >thsalon@eng.umd.edu >http://www.ece.umd.edu/~thsalon >--------------------------------------------------------- > > > >On Mon, 10 Nov 2003, Joe Macker wrote: > >> At 01:16 PM 11/10/2003, Henderson, Thomas R wrote: >> >Richard, >> >Thanks for your comments and list of issues. As I mentioned to >> >you previously, I agree that some of these technical choices >> >need to be discussed further, once the IETF decides whether >> >or not this becomes a work effort. Hopefully there will be >> >strong support for the problem statement that will be presented >> >at the OSPF and MANET WGs this week, and we can then focus on >> >the particulars of the solution via a design team. >> >> We will have time for presentations and issues at the meeting. >> The main goal, however, is to determine if the problem statement can be used >> to move forward with a design team approach. This is one possible way >> forward for some of the proactive "lessons learned" to transition. >> >> Of course, there are new issues too. >> >> -Joe >> >> >Tom >> > >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: Richard Ogier [mailto:ogier@erg.sri.com] >> >> Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2003 10:00 PM >> >> To: manet@ietf.org >> >> Cc: ogier@erg.sri.com >> >> Subject: [manet] OSPF extensions for manets >> >> >> >> >> >> I would like to offer some comments on: >> >> >> >> draft-spagnolo-manet-ospf-wireless-interface-00.txt >> >> >> >> and to compare it with the solution in >> >> >> >> http://www.erg.sri.com/projects/tbrpf/docs/draft-ogier-manet-o >> >> spf-extension-00.txt >> >> >> >... >> > >> >_______________________________________________ >> >manet mailing list >> >manet@ietf.org >> >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> manet mailing list >> manet@ietf.org >> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet >> > >-------------------------------------------------- >Theodoros Salonidis >Ph.D. Candidate > >Institute of Systems Research & >Dept. of Electrical and Computer Engineering >University of Maryland, College Park >3187 A.V. Williams Bldg. >College Park, MD 20742 > >(301) 405-2942 >thsalon@eng.umd.edu >http://www.ece.umd.edu/~thsalon >--------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ >manet mailing list >manet@ietf.org >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Nov 12 14:46:42 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA03931 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 14:46:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AK0wa-0002Ym-Pw for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 14:46:25 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hACJkO9G009833 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 14:46:24 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AK0wZ-0002YS-VM for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; 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Wed, 12 Nov 2003 14:45:07 -0500 Received: from slb-smtpout-01.boeing.com ([130.76.64.48]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AK0vK-0004Vq-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 14:45:06 -0500 Received: from slb-av-01.boeing.com ([129.172.13.4]) by slb-smtpout-01.boeing.com (8.9.2.MG.10092003/8.8.5-M2) with ESMTP id LAA24918; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:45:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from slb-hub-01.boeing.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slb-av-01.boeing.com (8.9.3/8.9.2/MBS-AV-02) with ESMTP id LAA15137; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:45:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from XCH-NWBH-01.nw.nos.boeing.com (xch-nwbh-01.nw.nos.boeing.com [192.33.62.231]) by slb-hub-01.boeing.com (8.11.3/8.11.3/MBS-LDAP-01) with ESMTP id hACJibG13595; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:44:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from XCH-NW-27.nw.nos.boeing.com ([192.48.4.101]) by XCH-NWBH-01.nw.nos.boeing.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6662); Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:44:12 -0800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [manet] OSPF extensions for manets Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:44:12 -0800 Message-ID: <6938661A6EDA8A4EA8D1419BCE46F24C026B5DB6@xch-nw-27.nw.nos.boeing.com> Thread-Topic: [manet] OSPF extensions for manets Thread-Index: AcOnUEvbO/HEIn2jTyuhu4FvS07RDgB+1mKA From: "Henderson, Thomas R" To: "Richard Ogier" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Nov 2003 19:44:12.0532 (UTC) FILETIME=[58E67B40:01C3A955] Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Richard, Embedded are some comments in response. > -----Original Message----- > From: Richard Ogier [mailto:ogier@erg.sri.com] > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2003 10:00 PM > To: manet@ietf.org > Cc: ogier@erg.sri.com > Subject: [manet] OSPF extensions for manets >=20 >=20 > I would like to offer some comments on: >=20 > draft-spagnolo-manet-ospf-wireless-interface-00.txt =20 >=20 > and to compare it with the solution in >=20 > http://www.erg.sri.com/projects/tbrpf/docs/draft-ogier-manet-o > spf-extension-00.txt >=20 > I will refer to these documents as [Spagnolo03] and=20 > [Ogier03], respectively. > I am not saying that either of these solutions is better than=20 > the other, > and hopefully better solutions (or suggestions for improving=20 > these) will > be proposed after the problem statement is accepted. >=20 > The draft [Spagnolo03] extends OSPF to manet interfaces by=20 > using the MPR > flooding mechanism of OSPF to flood LSAs. I.e., it proposes to list > MPRs in Hello messages, and to disseminate LSAs using unreliable, > periodic flooding via MPRs. >=20 > Most of my comments can be grouped into the following three questions: >=20 > 1. Are MPRs the best choice for the relay nodes used for=20 > flooding LSAs? > 2. Is it better to use reliable vs. unreliable flooding of LSAs? > 3. Should we try to minimize the changes to OSPF? >=20 > I will discuss the third question first. It seems to me that=20 > minimizing > the changes to OSPF would make the extension more acceptable=20 > to the OSPF > working group. For example, as discussed below and in=20 > [Ogier03], it is > possible to avoid introducing any new packet formats, e.g., to use the > existing format for OSPF Hello packets, and to avoid introducing a new > flooding mechanism that requires a new sequence number for suppressing > duplicates, etc. OSPF already has a mechanism for suppressing > duplicates during flooding, and it is possible to use this mechanism. While it seems like minimizing changes to OSPF is an agreed goal, I guess we have different views of this. We decided not to change the LSA format at all, but we did adopt some new message types. But is this really a big deal? I would argue that even in your proposal, you are using (overloading) a new message type for Hello because you=20 are redefining the semantics of the DR field. Also, you have proposed changes (sequence numbers) to LSR messages. The LSF is identical to an LSU but with the flooding sequence number. =20 We are not saying that we believe LSF to be the best possible approach=20 to flooding, but we are saying that it was straightforward to implement. However, differential LSAs do represent a departure from OSPF database formats and the logic of handling/parsing LSAs when doing SPFs (unless differential LSAs are converted to regular LSAs upon reception). We were able to avoid touching any of this part of the implementation. One also has to consider that conventional LSAs are needed to be=20 circulated outside of the wireless network if it is to interoperate=20 with legacy routers. If a wireless-optimized flooding algorithm is devised that does not=20 require a flooding sequence number, so much the better, but this is not a big concern in my view. I haven't seen a proposal yet that didn't change how flooding is done in some manner (whether using a LSF message or redefining database description, etc.). >=20 > Below I quote a set of bullets from [Spagnolo03] summarizing their > proposed OSPF extension, and for comparison, after each bullet I > summarize how the solution in [Ogier03] is different. =20 > (S indicates [Spagnolo03] and O indicates [Ogier03].) >=20 > S defines a new Wireless Hello message. The new message adds > an MPR list and eliminate backup and designated router fields; >=20 > O Does not require any change to the OSPF Hello packet format. > The Designated Router field may indicate a CDS (connected > dominating set) node instead of a DR. > =20 > S implements the MPR selection algorithm and rules for reflood- > ing LSAs; >=20 > O Implements an algorithm by which nodes select themselves > to be a CDS node or an MPR. >=20 > S efficiently floods LSAs periodically using a Link State Flood > (LSF) message; >=20 > O Uses an efficient method for reliable flooding based=20 > on periodic > Database Description packets, using existing OSPF=20 > message types. >=20 > S eliminates the formation of full adjacencies on wireless > interfaces; all neighbor states beyond 2-Way are not reached, > and no database synchronization is performed; and >=20 > O Same. >=20 > S includes a mechanism for suppressing the redundant flooding of > "outside" LSAs (LSAs originated external to the wireless sub- > net). >=20 > O A similar mechanism for suppressing "outside" LSAs can=20 > be employed. >=20 > MPRs seem to be a popular method for flooding in manets, but=20 > we need to > ask whether MPRs are really the best way to flood LSAs in an OSPF > extension. Also, there are different ways to compute MPRs: in OLSR, > nodes select a subset of neighbors as MPRs, but it is also=20 > possible for > nodes to select themselves as MPRs. >=20 > If MPRs are used only to flood LSAs, then a CDS is sufficent for this > purpose and has the following advantages. Most of these advantages > are also shared by self-selected MPRs (which do not require nodes to > advertise MPRs in Hellos). >=20 > 1. OSPF Hello packets can be used without modification (the DR > field would indicate a CDS node, which can be the sending node > itself). Each node decides whether it is a CDS node (or an MPR) > based on Hellos and LSAs originated by neighbors. >=20 > 2. As shown in reference [Lin03] of [Ogier03], and also by my own > simulations, using a CDS or self-selected MPR results in a relay > node set (set of nodes that relay a given LSA) that is smaller than > or about the same size as using MPRs (depending on the scenario). >=20 > 3. Using a CDS is simpler, since the relay node set is independent > of the LSA originator. And the decision to forward a given LSA/LSU > does not depend on which neighbor it was received from. > =20 > 4. Using a CDS or self-selected MPRs can result in faster recovery > from link failures, since a node does not have to wait for > a neighbor to select it. In fact, a CDS node or MPR is analogous > to a Designated Router (DR), and DRs select themselves in OSPF. >=20 I agree that CDS vs. self-selected MPRs vs. OLSR-style MPRs can be looked at further. However, I am not convinced that there will be huge gains one way or the other. One argument against CDS or other solutions for global relay sets, which might be relevant for some=20 environments is that it might end up concentrating transmission=20 (battery consumption) among fewer nodes. We chose OLSR-style=20 MPRs because the MANET group has already selected it as an appropriate=20 flooding optimization for MANETs, and the code was readily available. =20 > The solution described in [Spagnolo03] uses unreliable, periodic > flooding, which is quite different from the OSPF flooding mechanism, > and requires a new packet type (LSF) that includes a new sequence > number used to detect duplicates. =20 >=20 > The solution described in [Ogier03] uses a reliable flooding mechanism > that does not require a new packet type, and uses the same=20 > mechanism as > OSPF to detect duplicates (based on the LSA sequence number in the > database). This flooding mechanism makes efficient use of the Database > Description (DD) and LS Request packets already defined in OSPF. =20 > Instead of each node exchanging DD packets separately with each new > neighbor, each relay node (e.g., CDS node) periodically broadcasts > to its neighbors (on each manet interface) a set of DD packets, which > describes the set of LSAs that it is currently responsible for > reporting (by including the LSA headers with sequence numbers). > This is similar to the periodic Complete Sequence Numbers=20 > (CSN) packets > of IS-IS. If a node i detects via a DD packet that a neighbor=20 > CDS node j > has a more recent instance of some LSA, then node i can=20 > request the LSA > by sending a LS Request packet to j. More details can be found in > [Ogier03] (link given above), including an option for=20 > differential LSAs. There are two issues here: whether to flood reliably vs. unreliably,=20 and whether to devise some concise representation of databases so that neighbors can make sure that they are in sync. You have a proposal that combines the two, and it deserves more thought. We implemented an unreliable flooding and did not use database exchange. Obviously, as Fred pointed out, there are scalability implications to unreliable flooding. Perhaps these can be addressed by having an adaptive flooding interval that is tuned to the amount of local topology change going on-- perhaps the best approach is to use some reliability. But we did find that the performance implications = on routing were not significant-- forwarding based on the imperfect information did as well as legacy OSPFv2 forwarding. We have been considering augmenting the unreliable flooding with a=20 reliable flooding mechanism to deal with events like Max Aging of=20 LSAs (which aren't lingering around to be periodically reflooded). So in summary, I think that this issue needs to be looked at some more from a bandwidth efficiency perspective, but we have observed that the imperfect information does not generally impact the route selection performance. >=20 > As I mentioned, I am not saying that this is the best solution. > It is only work in progress, and hopefully other solutions will > be proposed. There are many choices to make, such as whether > to use a CDS, and if so, what algorithm to use. =20 > Comments and suggestions are welcome. >=20 Agreed-- I just hope that we are not too harshly criticized for adapting what has already been approved as an RFC by this group to the problem at hand, building an implementation, finding that it performed fairly well, and putting it on the table for discussion. =20 I also would like the group to consider that there is a new dimension to this problem. Not only are we concerned about efficiency in the MANET environment itself, but we also have to worry about how this glues into the rest of the OSPF network, particularly if the wireless network is a transit subnet. We have to worry about i) the possibility of hundreds or thousands of external LSAs being injected into the wireless network, and=20 ii) how to potentially mask a rapidly changing wireless environment so that the rest of the OSPF network is not flooded with lots of LSAs. My feeling is that solutions to these issues will trump issues like MPRs vs. CDS and the like. Tom _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Nov 12 15:34:00 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA07741 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 15:34:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AK1gJ-0000dI-Mm for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 15:33:41 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hACKXd7m002432 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 15:33:39 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AK1gI-0000cx-6E for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 15:33:39 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA07700 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 15:33:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AK1gG-0005YF-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 15:33:36 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AK1gF-0005Xx-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 15:33:35 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AK1fh-0000VN-Fn; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 15:33:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AK1es-0000Uh-SH for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 15:32:10 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA07674 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 15:31:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AK1er-0005XX-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 15:32:09 -0500 Received: from shaku.sfc.wide.ad.jp ([203.178.143.49]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AK1eq-0005Ts-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 15:32:08 -0500 Received: from [130.129.64.239] (dyn064-239.ietf58.ietf.org [130.129.64.239]) (authenticated bits=0) by shaku.sfc.wide.ad.jp (8.12.10/8.12.0) with ESMTP id hACKU34v024138; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 05:30:04 +0900 Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 05:30:07 +0900 From: Ryuji Wakikawa To: Christophe Jelger Subject: Re: [manet] Comment on manet gateway autoconf draft. Cc: manet@ietf.org, "'autonet'" In-Reply-To: <3FB25FB5.2090303@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr> References: <000001c3a422$93532950$ae70fe81@jafywinxp> <3FB25FB5.2090303@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr> Message-Id: <20031113052538.3491.RYUJI@sfc.wide.ad.jp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Becky! ver. 2.06.02 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I don't know why you concern implementation so much. You should not assume particular OS. I don't see any problem to use routing header. We suggested to use it in global6 draft. Are you saying that kernel implementation is complex? I disagree with your statement. ryuji > Hi HyunWook / all, > > Well I agree when you say that using a routing header maximizes prefix > stability. If we also want to maintain transport layer sessions then we > also need something like your proposal (or MIPv6). I am not opposed to > the use of routing header, in fact I'm mainly worried about the > complexity to write some code that needs to add a routing header. I > guess this has to be kernel code, I don't know if it can written as an > external module or not, and how complex it is for a lambda user to > install such code. If anybode has experienced in writing code with > routing header can give us some hints he is very welcome. ;-) > > I think MIPv6 is a good example of what I mean : a user that is not > experienced with Linux cannot install it easily. I personaly think that > it can refrain people from using it, mainly because it is too complex to > setup. > > Note that with our proposal, we can also use routing headers, but > decided not to include it in the draft because we wanted to avoid this > (unknown) complexity (when writing the code). Our proposal (developed by > Arnaud Frey) is already implemented as a (user level) daemon which can > be installed by any user that knows how to use a shell. The code is > still in a debugging state, a few things have to be checked and > validated but a first beta version should be available soon. > > Christophe > > HyunWook Cha wrote: > > >If the main purpose of maintenance of prefix continuity is to avoid > >routing header, I do not agree. IMO, usage of routing header has > >following advantages. > >- not require prefix continuity, but prefix stability can be maximized. > >As long as a node can find route information for a gateway, it can > >refresh its address. This can help tranport layer survivability. > >- can use the shortest path established by routing protocol. This can > >compensate bandwidth consumption caused by routing header while > >traffics can traverse non-optimal paths without routing header. > >- ok when intermediate nodes do not want internet connectivity or not > >yet configure its global address just after bootstraping. It needs only > >route information for a gateway through RREQ and RREP exchange. > > > >What do you think about this? > > > >Regards, > > > >HyunWook Cha > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > manet mailing list > manet@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet regards, ryuji _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Nov 12 15:41:37 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA08107 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 15:41:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AK1nc-0001TS-3H for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 15:41:19 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hACKfBBj005661 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 15:41:11 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AK1nb-0001TE-SK for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 15:41:11 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA08051 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 15:40:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AK1na-0005fd-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 15:41:10 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AK1nZ-0005fa-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 15:41:09 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AK1nS-0001NH-Vx; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 15:41:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AK1n3-0001MV-Kk for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 15:40:37 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA08016 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 15:40:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AK1n2-0005f7-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 15:40:36 -0500 Received: from s2.itd.nrl.navy.mil ([132.250.83.3]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AK1n1-0005en-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 15:40:35 -0500 Received: from smtp.itd.nrl.navy.mil (smtp.itd.nrl.navy.mil [132.250.86.3]) by s2.itd.nrl.navy.mil (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.8) with SMTP id hACKdqMq000682; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 15:39:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from SEXTANT.itd.nrl.navy.mil ([132.250.92.22]) by smtp.itd.nrl.navy.mil (SAVSMTP 3.1.2.35) with SMTP id M2003111215395122461 ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 15:39:51 -0500 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.2.20031112151729.028229a0@pop.itd.nrl.navy.mil> X-Sender: macker@pop.itd.nrl.navy.mil (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 15:42:10 -0500 To: Richard Ogier , manet@ietf.org From: Joe Macker Subject: Re: [manet] OSPF extensions for manets In-Reply-To: <3FB1C843.4070900@erg.sri.com> References: <3FB1C843.4070900@erg.sri.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , > >However, the draft by Henderson et al. describes an extension that >uses MPRs and unreliable, periodic flooding (even though he claims >that future versions may use reliable flooding). >Therefore, since the draft describes a protocol that does not >agree with working group consensus, it would make no sense to >accept the draft as is. There is no intention to considering accepting WG design documents immediately. This should be considered an informational presentation of a prototype implementation not a design recommendation for the WG. We need problem statement acceptance. If any decisions are made that is the area we need consensus on first. despite the fact that there are multiple ways to solve a problem..is there enough on the table to begin an engineering effort? does it meet a need? if accepted where and how can we work the problem? Most people discussing this have been raising similar open design issues that need some addressing during a design process. That is clear. I don't see much disagreement among the parties in that regard. Can I read into your design enthusiasm that you support the problem statement? _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Nov 12 19:55:10 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA20372 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 19:55:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AK5l5-0007Qj-1I for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 19:54:51 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAD0soak028555 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 19:54:51 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AK5l4-0007QU-Su for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 19:54:50 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA20353 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 19:54:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AK5l2-0002Kd-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 19:54:48 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AK5l2-0002Ka-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 19:54:48 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AK5kI-0007Eu-0o; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 19:54:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AK5jP-0007DH-0L for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 19:53:07 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA20283 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 19:52:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AK5jN-0002Ic-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 19:53:05 -0500 Received: from pullyou.nist.gov ([129.6.16.93] helo=postmark.nist.gov) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AK5jM-0002IZ-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 19:53:04 -0500 Received: from nist.gov (mouse.antd.nist.gov [129.6.50.84]) by postmark.nist.gov (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id hAD0qZ18028055; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 19:52:36 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3FB2E468.5829CEEA@nist.gov> Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 20:54:48 -0500 From: bjkwak Organization: NIST, MD X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.8-26mdk i686) X-Accept-Language: en, ko MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Peter Pham , manet@ietf.org Subject: Re: [manet] Question on 802.11DCF References: <3FAED82E.7020007@spri.levels.unisa.edu.au> <006f01c3a723$307df180$e4f02e93@oahu> <3FAF16A8.50205@spri.levels.unisa.edu.au> <1068440681.29000.21.camel@wind1> <3FAFCBFF.586756CE@nist.gov> <1068500529.29000.45.camel@wind1> <3FB0208D.F08AC7B4@nist.gov> <1068506691.28780.89.camel@wind1> <3FB11DFA.48D4687D@nist.gov> <3FB185B2.2010807@spri.levels.unisa.edu.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Peter, > ****************************************************** > normal packoff procedure: > waiting DIFS + choosing random number + counting down. > ****************************************************** No! In the NEW description: normal backoff = choosing random number + chounting down Byung-Jae _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Nov 13 05:39:31 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA19888 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 05:39:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKEsb-0000VZ-HX for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 05:39:14 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hADAdD90001952 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 05:39:13 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKEsb-0000VP-AS for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 05:39:13 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA19873 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 05:39:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKEsX-0002Sh-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 05:39:09 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKEsX-0002Se-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 05:39:09 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKEsQ-0000UL-D6; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 05:39:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKEs8-0000U3-DC for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 05:38:44 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA19865 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 05:38:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKEs4-0002SW-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 05:38:40 -0500 Received: from neptune.webvis.net ([128.242.238.141] helo=ulfius.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKEs4-0002ST-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 05:38:40 -0500 Received: from ulfius.com ([207.153.226.197]) by ulfius.com ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:13:30 +0800 SGT From: "Robert Cain" Reply-to: manet@ulfius.com To: manet@ietf.org Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 10:38:34 +0000 Subject: RE: [manet] AODV Question Message-id: <3fb3594a.1e08.0@ulfius.com> X-User-Info: 81.103.147.248 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rcpt-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Connectivity is the number of other nodes each node can reach with 1 hop. Therefore a connectivity of 10 means there is 10 nodes that a can reach directly. Obviously in an actual network this would vary from node to node. Rob Cain :-) >What does the connectivity parameter specify? Is it saying in 100,000 nodes only 10 nodes would be connected? > >-----Original Message----- >From: Robert Cain [mailto:tgm@ulfius.com] >Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2003 11:13 AM >To: DANIEL BYRNE >Subject: Re: [manet] AODV Question > > >1 byte seems OK to me. > >With some simple analysis assuming a circular homogeneous network of node >count K and a reasonable connectivity C then the radius of the network in >hops can be derived to be the square root of K/C. Which for a network size >of 100,000 and a connectivity of 10 gives a hop count radius of 100. Seeing >as a network of size 100,000 will be probably at practical limits of size >due to performance degradation then I think 1 byte may well be enough. > >hope that helps :-) > >Rob Cain > >>if the >> >>"AODV routing protocol is designed for mobile ad hoc networks >> with populations of tens to thousands of mobile nodes" >> >>why is the HopCount limited to only a BYTE? This effectively limits the >number of hops to 255. Why not expand the hop count to two bytes into the >reseved region of the RREQ packet. Something similar could be done with >the RREP packet as well. >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>manet mailing list >>manet@ietf.org >>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet >> > _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Nov 13 06:02:38 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA20401 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 06:02:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKFEw-0001b6-D7 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 06:02:21 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hADB2IOs006134 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 06:02:18 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKFEw-0001ar-80 for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 06:02:18 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA20368 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 06:02:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKFEs-0002je-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 06:02:14 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKFEs-0002ja-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 06:02:14 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKFEg-0001Tb-Iu; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 06:02:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKFE5-0001Sy-81 for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 06:01:25 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA20351 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 06:01:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKFE1-0002io-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 06:01:21 -0500 Received: from [203.199.93.15] (helo=WS0005.indiatimes.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKFE0-0002ii-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 06:01:20 -0500 Received: from 192.168.57.15 (a2 [192.168.57.22]) by WS0005.indiatimes.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA22997 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:55:46 +0530 From: "anjali_jain_aset" Message-Id: <200311131025.PAA22997@WS0005.indiatimes.com> To: Reply-To: "anjali_jain_aset" Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 16:19:14 +0530 X-URL: http://indiatimes.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_MAILER_ATTACH_BOUNDARY1_200311134161914635723058" MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: [manet] problem on QoS Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , --=_MAILER_ATTACH_BOUNDARY1_200311134161914635723058 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi All, could you please suggest some research areas to be worked upon in providing the quality of service for the Manets and the related material. Earlier I was working on mPLS , but now want to shift my work area to the QOS in Manets Thanx and Regards Anjali Click onthe image to chat with me --=_MAILER_ATTACH_BOUNDARY1_200311134161914635723058 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

Hi All,

could you please suggest some research areas to be worked upon in providing the quality of service for the Manets and the related material.

Earlier I was working on mPLS , but now want to shift my work area to the QOS in Manets

Thanx and Regards

Anjali

 

 


Click onthe image to chat with me
--=_MAILER_ATTACH_BOUNDARY1_200311134161914635723058-- _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Nov 13 08:37:28 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA25828 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 08:37:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKHen-0001os-7D for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 08:37:09 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hADDb999006994 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 08:37:09 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKHen-0001oj-1b for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 08:37:09 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA25784 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 08:36:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKHel-0004o1-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 08:37:07 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKHel-0004ny-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 08:37:07 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKHeg-0001jd-Tm; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 08:37:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKHeS-0001ho-LN for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 08:36:48 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA25758 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 08:36:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKHeR-0004nN-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 08:36:47 -0500 Received: from web8206.mail.in.yahoo.com ([203.199.70.75]) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKHeQ-0004mB-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 08:36:46 -0500 Message-ID: <20031113133613.67118.qmail@web8206.mail.in.yahoo.com> Received: from [203.201.200.249] by web8206.mail.in.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 13:36:13 GMT Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 13:36:13 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jitesh=20Shah?= Subject: RE: [manet] AODV Question To: manet@ulfius.com, manet@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <3fb3594a.1e08.0@ulfius.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi, It depends on how you see the network. If you are refering to a network which has a CHAIN topology then the byte used for RREP and RREQ might be way insignificant. But when you refer to a well connected network then the byte seems sufficient. Rgds Jitesh --- Robert Cain wrote: > Connectivity is the number of other nodes each node > can reach with 1 hop. > Therefore a connectivity of 10 means there is 10 > nodes that a can reach > directly. Obviously in an actual network this would > vary from node to node. > > > Rob Cain :-) > > > >What does the connectivity parameter specify? Is > it saying in 100,000 > nodes only 10 nodes would be connected? > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Robert Cain [mailto:tgm@ulfius.com] > >Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2003 11:13 AM > >To: DANIEL BYRNE > >Subject: Re: [manet] AODV Question > > > > > >1 byte seems OK to me. > > > >With some simple analysis assuming a circular > homogeneous network of node > >count K and a reasonable connectivity C then the > radius of the network in > >hops can be derived to be the square root of K/C. > Which for a network size > >of 100,000 and a connectivity of 10 gives a hop > count radius of 100. > Seeing > >as a network of size 100,000 will be probably at > practical limits of size > >due to performance degradation then I think 1 byte > may well be enough. > > > >hope that helps :-) > > > >Rob Cain > > > >>if the > >> > >>"AODV routing protocol is designed for mobile ad > hoc networks > >> with populations of tens to thousands of mobile > nodes" > >> > >>why is the HopCount limited to only a BYTE? This > effectively limits the > >number of hops to 255. Why not expand the hop > count to two bytes into the > >reseved region of the RREQ packet. Something > similar could be done with > >the RREP packet as well. > >> > >> > >>_______________________________________________ > >>manet mailing list > >>manet@ietf.org > >>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > manet mailing list > manet@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet ________________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! India Mobile: Download the latest polyphonic ringtones. Go to http://in.mobile.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Nov 13 09:44:36 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA28935 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 09:44:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKIhl-0005oA-IL for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 09:44:18 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hADEiHhA022320 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 09:44:17 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKIhl-0005nv-C0 for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 09:44:17 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA28908 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 09:44:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKIhj-0005wt-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 09:44:15 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKIhi-0005wo-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 09:44:14 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKIhV-0005mg-At; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 09:44:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKIhM-0005mO-Ab for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 09:43:53 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA28875 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 09:43:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKIhJ-0005wP-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 09:43:49 -0500 Received: from marfik.cc.upv.es ([158.42.250.61] helo=marfik.upv.es) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKIhI-0005vS-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 09:43:48 -0500 Received: from pop.upv.es (maia.cc.upv.es [158.42.4.11]) by marfik.upv.es (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADEh5jb028591; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:43:06 +0100 Received: from mx2.upv.es (mx2.cc.upv.es [158.42.249.55]) by pop.upv.es (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id hADEh5H07421; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:43:05 +0100 (MET) Received: from nao.disca.upv.es (nao.disca.upv.es [158.42.53.70]) by mx2.upv.es (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hADEh1fp010791; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:43:03 +0100 Received: from disca.upv.es (msanchez2.disca.upv.es [158.42.53.165]) by nao.disca.upv.es (Postfix on SuSE eMail Server 2.0) with ESMTP id A7CFF1FE8B; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:42:33 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <3FB39896.1070804@disca.upv.es> Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:43:34 +0100 From: Miguel Sanchez User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031009 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dholmer@cs.jhu.edu Cc: manet@ietf.org, "'Peter Pham'" Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: [manet] Power Saving in 802.11] References: <000901c3a4c2$8751edd0$e6dddc80@Mercury> In-Reply-To: <000901c3a4c2$8751edd0$e6dddc80@Mercury> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.76.7.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, You may want to look for tech specs of Aironet Cisco 340 and 350 series adapters. I think 340 allow 4 power levels and 350 six different power levels, software selectable. I haven't researched how long does a power change to become effective though. I think this paper [http://black1.csl.uiuc.edu/~prkumar/ps_files/compow.pdf] uses these cards to adapt transmission power level. They did a real implementation using Linux. I guess the paper will give you some of the details my answer is lacking. Best regards, Miguel S=E1nchez Polytechnic University of Valencia, Spain dholmer wrote: >... > >Now for your other question on how feasible is it to control the power >saving state of an actual NIC card. I haven't had that much experience >with attempting that yet. The real question is if that functionality is >available at the driver level, or if it is only a firmware controlled >feature. A quick search through the Linux open source orinoco driver >(which actually supports many types of cards) yielded no promising leads= >for manual power control. However many options for enabling the default >802.11 PSM and tweaking its parameters were available. In a pinch, it >may be possible to switch the card in and out of PSM with very long >beacon intervals, but some in depth experimentation would be necessary >to test this out. > >David Holmer > >PS I had trouble locating a link to the Intersil application note. If it= >has been removed, people can email me directly for a copy. > >-----Original Message----- >From: manet-admin@ietf.org [mailto:manet-admin@ietf.org] On Behalf Of >Peter Pham >Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 8:59 PM >To: Jean Lorchat; MANET >Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: [manet] Power Saving in 802.11] > >Hi > >I am really interested in the time switch between the ``sleep'' state to= > >other state. > >By the spec, the turn around time between Tx and Rx must be less than=20 >5micro sec. However it does not state this. I guess it should be in=20 >order of few microsec right ? > >Although, it is easily modelled in ns2 or Glomosim, is it feasible in=20 >practice ?...What I mean is is that possible we can control the NIC card= > >as that easy ?. For example, can we change the Tx power as any level as = >we wish at anytime. Can we set the card to sleep mode and turn it back=20 >on at anytime as we wish. > >Is there anyone has any info on this...I appreciate some ``real''=20 >knowledge on this. > >Cheers >Peter Pham > >Jean Lorchat wrote: > > =20 > >>Hi Justin, >> >> =20 >> >>>From your conclusion (quick read), it would seem that the first order >>> =20 >>> > > =20 > >>>radio model I quoted is reasonably accurate in terms of reception and >>> =20 >>> > > =20 > >>>transmission? >>> =20 >>> >>Although these are not my conclusions (I'm not the author), that's=20 >>what it seems. >>However, I think that John is right when he states that we should=20 >>differenciate >>so-called idle mode corresponding to "discarding a packet not intended >> =20 >> > > =20 > >>to us" and >>real sleep mode that 802.11 hardware is capable of (namely PSP in=20 >>infrastructures). >>But knowing this, you must also have a way to use it in adhoc mode=20 >>(and I don't know >>whether adhoc PSP is a good solution for manets...) ? or do you mean=20 >>MAC modifications ? >> >>Jean >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>manet mailing list >>manet@ietf.org >>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet >> >> >> =20 >> > > > > >_______________________________________________ >manet mailing list >manet@ietf.org >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet > > >_______________________________________________ >manet mailing list >manet@ietf.org >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet > > > =20 > _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Nov 13 09:53:33 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA29385 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 09:53:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKIqP-0006wN-74 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 09:53:15 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hADErDhE026673 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 09:53:13 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKIqP-0006w8-1q for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 09:53:13 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA29358 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 09:53:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKIqM-00066r-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 09:53:10 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKIqM-00066o-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 09:53:10 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKIqD-0006oB-Dp; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 09:53:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKIpd-0006nk-LW for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 09:52:25 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA29324 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 09:52:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKIpb-00066R-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 09:52:23 -0500 Received: from itc100.adtran.com ([66.0.238.100] helo=srv-exchange2.adtran.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKIpb-00066O-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 09:52:23 -0500 Received: by srv-exchange2.adtran.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 08:52:22 -0600 Message-ID: <39B01E2189D99F4B8C9612462DB3922A0CEBA928@srv-exchange.adtran.com> From: DANIEL BYRNE To: "'Jitesh Shah'" , manet@ulfius.com, manet@ietf.org Subject: RE: [manet] AODV Question Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 08:52:21 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Agreed. A branched chain configuration would be difficult to support with only a BYTE. My point is that although most everyone involved in development and testing of this protocol have envisioned a 'cluster of connected nodes' arrangement, the reality is the sum total of all possible topolgies in a wireless network of this type is potentially limitless. Limited in effect by only the range of the radios in the network. How are we to know how some future person or organization will use this protocol? Will they need the extra BYTE? Should we place artificial limits on the protocol by purposefully limiting the hop count, address range, etc.? One solution is the "extensions" field in the latest draft of AODV could potentially provide a means to expand upon the protocol in the future if neccessary. http://moment.cs.ucsb.edu/pub/draft-perkins-manet-aodvbis-00.txt -----Original Message----- From: Jitesh Shah [mailto:jiteshshahin@yahoo.com] Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2003 7:36 AM To: manet@ulfius.com; manet@ietf.org Subject: RE: [manet] AODV Question Hi, It depends on how you see the network. If you are refering to a network which has a CHAIN topology then the byte used for RREP and RREQ might be way insignificant. But when you refer to a well connected network then the byte seems sufficient. Rgds Jitesh --- Robert Cain wrote: > Connectivity is the number of other nodes each node > can reach with 1 hop. > Therefore a connectivity of 10 means there is 10 > nodes that a can reach > directly. Obviously in an actual network this would > vary from node to node. > > > Rob Cain :-) > > > >What does the connectivity parameter specify? Is > it saying in 100,000 > nodes only 10 nodes would be connected? > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Robert Cain [mailto:tgm@ulfius.com] > >Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2003 11:13 AM > >To: DANIEL BYRNE > >Subject: Re: [manet] AODV Question > > > > > >1 byte seems OK to me. > > > >With some simple analysis assuming a circular > homogeneous network of node > >count K and a reasonable connectivity C then the > radius of the network in > >hops can be derived to be the square root of K/C. > Which for a network size > >of 100,000 and a connectivity of 10 gives a hop > count radius of 100. > Seeing > >as a network of size 100,000 will be probably at > practical limits of size > >due to performance degradation then I think 1 byte > may well be enough. > > > >hope that helps :-) > > > >Rob Cain > > > >>if the > >> > >>"AODV routing protocol is designed for mobile ad > hoc networks > >> with populations of tens to thousands of mobile > nodes" > >> > >>why is the HopCount limited to only a BYTE? This > effectively limits the > >number of hops to 255. Why not expand the hop > count to two bytes into the > >reseved region of the RREQ packet. Something > similar could be done with > >the RREP packet as well. > >> > >> > >>_______________________________________________ > >>manet mailing list > >>manet@ietf.org > >>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > manet mailing list > manet@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet ________________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! India Mobile: Download the latest polyphonic ringtones. Go to http://in.mobile.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Nov 13 12:09:33 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA08391 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 12:09:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKKy3-00055p-34 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 12:09:15 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hADH9FRQ019571 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 12:09:15 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKKy2-00055a-VB for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 12:09:14 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA08354 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 12:09:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKKy1-00013n-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 12:09:13 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKKy1-00013j-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 12:09:13 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKKxq-00052F-Jf; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 12:09:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKKws-0004wC-T1 for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 12:08:02 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA08315 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 12:07:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKKwr-00012Q-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 12:08:01 -0500 Received: from dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr ([130.79.44.193]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKKwq-00012N-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 12:08:00 -0500 Received: from dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr (patinet.u-strasbg.fr [130.79.90.172]) by dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian-6.6) with ESMTP id hADHIdnu026382 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:18:39 +0100 Message-ID: <3FB3BA38.8090809@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr> Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:07:04 +0100 From: Christophe Jelger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.0.0) Gecko/20020623 Debian/1.0.0-0.woody.1 X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: manet Subject: Re: [manet] Comment on manet gateway autoconf draft. References: <000001c3a422$93532950$ae70fe81@jafywinxp> <3FB25FB5.2090303@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr> <20031113052538.3491.RYUJI@sfc.wide.ad.jp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Ryuji, I'm not saying kernel implementation is complex (actually I don't have experience in kernel code), I'm rather saying that such code usually requires that a user who wants to install it needs to have some knowledge in patching a kernel and stuff like that. Well for people like us it is easy to install MIPv6, but for a basic user it requires too much effort and I think it can prevent people from using it. I took the example of MIPv6, because I think many users would be interested by MIPv6, but if installation is too complex people may just give up using it. I also think MANET is a good example. I you tell basic users that he can use MANET functionalities and that it requires very little effort to install, then they may use it. If you tell them they need to be network specialists to install it then they will probably just forget about it. Note that I'm not saying that therefore the research community should not propose protocols/ideas/whatever that are complex to setup, this is completely different. I was just trying to motivate the fact that we decided to avoid the routing header stuff because we want something that is simple to develop and install. The main goal there is to propose something that can be tried very easily. Regards, Christophe Ryuji Wakikawa wrote: >I don't know why you concern implementation so much. >You should not assume particular OS. > >I don't see any problem to use routing header. We suggested to use it in >global6 draft. Are you saying that kernel implementation is complex? >I disagree with your statement. > >ryuji > > > >>Hi HyunWook / all, >> >>Well I agree when you say that using a routing header maximizes prefix >>stability. If we also want to maintain transport layer sessions then we >>also need something like your proposal (or MIPv6). I am not opposed to >>the use of routing header, in fact I'm mainly worried about the >>complexity to write some code that needs to add a routing header. I >>guess this has to be kernel code, I don't know if it can written as an >>external module or not, and how complex it is for a lambda user to >>install such code. If anybode has experienced in writing code with >>routing header can give us some hints he is very welcome. ;-) >> >>I think MIPv6 is a good example of what I mean : a user that is not >>experienced with Linux cannot install it easily. I personaly think that >>it can refrain people from using it, mainly because it is too complex to >>setup. >> >>Note that with our proposal, we can also use routing headers, but >>decided not to include it in the draft because we wanted to avoid this >>(unknown) complexity (when writing the code). Our proposal (developed by >>Arnaud Frey) is already implemented as a (user level) daemon which can >>be installed by any user that knows how to use a shell. The code is >>still in a debugging state, a few things have to be checked and >>validated but a first beta version should be available soon. >> >>Christophe >> >>HyunWook Cha wrote: >> >> >> >>>If the main purpose of maintenance of prefix continuity is to avoid >>>routing header, I do not agree. IMO, usage of routing header has >>>following advantages. >>>- not require prefix continuity, but prefix stability can be maximized. >>>As long as a node can find route information for a gateway, it can >>>refresh its address. This can help tranport layer survivability. >>>- can use the shortest path established by routing protocol. This can >>>compensate bandwidth consumption caused by routing header while >>>traffics can traverse non-optimal paths without routing header. >>>- ok when intermediate nodes do not want internet connectivity or not >>>yet configure its global address just after bootstraping. It needs only >>>route information for a gateway through RREQ and RREP exchange. >>> >>>What do you think about this? >>> >>>Regards, >>> >>>HyunWook Cha >>> >>> >>> >>> >>_______________________________________________ >>manet mailing list >>manet@ietf.org >>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet >> >> > >regards, >ryuji > > > _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Nov 13 14:18:26 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA13813 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 14:18:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKMym-0005oI-1P for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 14:18:08 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hADJI80b022328 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 14:18:08 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKMyl-0005o3-T9 for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 14:18:07 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA13782 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 14:17:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKMyj-0003FD-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 14:18:05 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKMyi-0003FA-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 14:18:04 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKMyg-0005mm-Hu; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 14:18:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKMya-0005ld-Fp for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 14:17:56 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA13754 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 14:17:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKMyX-0003Ea-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 14:17:53 -0500 Received: from web40614.mail.yahoo.com ([66.218.78.151]) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKMyX-0003EE-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 14:17:53 -0500 Message-ID: <20031113191723.58654.qmail@web40614.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [132.204.100.226] by web40614.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 20:17:23 CET Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 20:17:23 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?redouane?= To: manet@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ietf.org id OAA13755 Subject: [manet] AODV paquet Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Is AODV paquet encapsulated in IP paquet without any other data (AODV use udp port 654)? Or, can other data being in the same IP paquet. thanks Redouane ___________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? -- Une adresse @yahoo.fr gratuite et en fran=E7ais ! Yahoo! Mail : http://fr.mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Nov 13 14:32:52 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA14456 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 14:32:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKNCj-00079m-UH for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 14:32:33 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hADJWXQs027504 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 14:32:33 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKNCj-00079X-ME for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 14:32:33 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA14416 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 14:32:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKNCf-0003Un-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 14:32:29 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKNCe-0003TN-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 14:32:28 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKNBG-0006rA-OC; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 14:31:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKNAX-0006ov-6j for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 14:30:17 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA14301 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 14:30:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKNAU-0003QP-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 14:30:14 -0500 Received: from web40614.mail.yahoo.com ([66.218.78.151]) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKNAU-0003Pw-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 14:30:14 -0500 Message-ID: <20031113192944.60276.qmail@web40614.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [132.204.100.226] by web40614.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 20:29:44 CET Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 20:29:44 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?redouane?= To: manet@ietf.org Cc: redouane43@yahoo.fr MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ietf.org id OAA14302 Subject: [manet] AODV paquet Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi AODV use port UDP 654, I ask if AODV paquets are encapsulated in IP paquet without any other data. Or is possible to have other data (or other protocols paquets) in the same IP paquet? thanks redouane ___________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? -- Une adresse @yahoo.fr gratuite et en fran=E7ais ! Yahoo! Mail : http://fr.mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Nov 13 15:08:36 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA16867 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:08:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKNlK-0001oH-7z for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:08:19 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hADK8IcG006951 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:08:18 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKNlK-0001o1-2q for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:08:18 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA16806 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:08:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKNlG-0004Bj-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:08:14 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKNlF-0004Aq-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:08:13 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKNk6-0001HJ-GY; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:07:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKNjX-0001GA-2U for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:06:27 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA16505 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:06:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKNjS-00047k-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:06:22 -0500 Received: from mercury.dgim.crc.ca ([142.92.39.129]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKNjS-00045n-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:06:22 -0500 Received: from ROGER (roger.dgrc.crc.ca [142.92.38.14]) by mercury.dgim.crc.ca (8.12.10/Bubba's Mail 0.2.6f) with SMTP id hADK5pG3032182 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:05:51 -0500 Message-Id: <200311132005.hADK5pG3032182@mercury.dgim.crc.ca> X-Sender: lli@mail.crc.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:10:28 -0500 To: manet From: Li Li In-Reply-To: <3FB3BA38.8090809@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr> References: <000001c3a422$93532950$ae70fe81@jafywinxp> <3FB25FB5.2090303@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr> <20031113052538.3491.RYUJI@sfc.wide.ad.jp> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: [manet] OLSR simulation package on OPNET Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , I'm looking for simulation package of OLSR on OPNET, preferably implemented on the latest version of OPNET, v10. Any information is much appreciated! Li Li _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Nov 13 15:24:08 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA18414 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:24:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKO0K-0003LO-DL for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:23:49 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hADKNmJG012854 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:23:48 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKO0K-0003LE-3F for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:23:48 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA18323 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:23:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKO0I-0004Rn-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:23:46 -0500 Received: from manatick.foretec.com ([4.17.168.5] helo=manatick) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKO0H-0004RZ-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:23:45 -0500 Received: from [132.151.6.22] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by manatick with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1AKNyL-0002vT-RF for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:21:46 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKNxq-0002zY-VL; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:21:14 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKNxJ-0002vF-Pn for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:20:42 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA18187 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:20:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKNxI-0004O4-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:20:40 -0500 Received: from den.erg.sri.com ([128.18.100.23]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKNxH-0004Nm-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:20:40 -0500 Received: from den.erg.sri.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by den.erg.sri.com (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA07041; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 12:20:02 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <200311132020.MAA07041@den.erg.sri.com> To: manet@ietf.org cc: ogier@erg.sri.com Reply-To: ogier@erg.sri.com From: ogier@erg.sri.com Subject: Re: [manet] OSPF extensions for manet In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 13 Nov 2003 10:12:02 PST." <73018.1068747125656.JavaMail.root@dewey.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 12:20:02 -0800 Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Tom, Thank you for your comments. See my comments below. > Richard, > Embedded are some comments in response. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Richard Ogier [mailto:ogier@erg.sri.com] > > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2003 10:00 PM > > To: manet@ietf.org > > Cc: ogier@erg.sri.com > > Subject: [manet] OSPF extensions for manets > > > > > > I would like to offer some comments on: > > > > draft-spagnolo-manet-ospf-wireless-interface-00.txt > > > > and to compare it with the solution in > > > > http://www.erg.sri.com/projects/tbrpf/docs/draft-ogier-manet-o > > spf-extension-00.txt > > > > I will refer to these documents as [Spagnolo03] and > > [Ogier03], respectively. > > I am not saying that either of these solutions is better than > > the other, > > and hopefully better solutions (or suggestions for improving > > these) will > > be proposed after the problem statement is accepted. > > > > The draft [Spagnolo03] extends OSPF to manet interfaces by > > using the MPR > > flooding mechanism of OSPF to flood LSAs. I.e., it proposes to list > > MPRs in Hello messages, and to disseminate LSAs using unreliable, > > periodic flooding via MPRs. > > > > Most of my comments can be grouped into the following three questions: > > > > 1. Are MPRs the best choice for the relay nodes used for > > flooding LSAs? > > 2. Is it better to use reliable vs. unreliable flooding of LSAs? > > 3. Should we try to minimize the changes to OSPF? > > > > I will discuss the third question first. It seems to me that > > minimizing > > the changes to OSPF would make the extension more acceptable > > to the OSPF > > working group. For example, as discussed below and in > > [Ogier03], it is > > possible to avoid introducing any new packet formats, e.g., to use the > > existing format for OSPF Hello packets, and to avoid introducing a new > > flooding mechanism that requires a new sequence number for suppressing > > duplicates, etc. OSPF already has a mechanism for suppressing > > duplicates during flooding, and it is possible to use this mechanism. > > While it seems like minimizing changes to OSPF is an agreed goal, I > guess we have different views of this. We decided not to change the > LSA format at all, but we did adopt some new message types. But is > this really a big deal? I would argue that even in your proposal, > you are using (overloading) a new message type for Hello because you > are redefining the semantics of the DR field. Also, you have proposed > changes (sequence numbers) to LSR messages. It might not be a big deal, but I don't think the OSPF working group would want to add more new message types or formats than necessary. If you propose to add message types or change formats, I think you need to justify that it is necessary. Thus, redefining "designated router" to be an overlapping relay is much less of a change than defining a new Hello format that advertises MPRs. In fact, we can even use the term "designated router" to refer to "overlapping relays". Thus, a manet can have several DRs. Also, it might not be justified to add a new message type for flooding if it is possible to use the existing OSPF mechanism for detecting duplicates (based on LSA sequence number), as I have proposed to do. The differential LSAs that I proposed are optional. The protocol would work well without them, but using them can greatly reduce overhead. Therefore, adding this new message format is justified. > > The LSF is identical to an LSU but with the flooding sequence number. > We are not saying that we believe LSF to be the best possible approach > to flooding, but we are saying that it was straightforward to implement. > > However, differential LSAs do represent a departure from OSPF database > formats and the logic of handling/parsing LSAs when doing SPFs (unless > differential LSAs are converted to regular LSAs upon reception). We > were able to avoid touching any of this part of the implementation. > One also has to consider that conventional LSAs are needed to be > circulated outside of the wireless network if it is to interoperate > with legacy routers. > > If a wireless-optimized flooding algorithm is devised that does not > require a flooding sequence number, so much the better, but this > is not a big concern in my view. I haven't seen a proposal yet that > didn't change how flooding is done in some manner (whether using a LSF > message or redefining database description, etc.). What I am proposing, using a CDS (or overlapping relays) with reliable flooding, avoids using a LSF, and I think this is as close as we can get to OSPF. Of course, some changes are necessary, but I am talking about minimizing the changes. (snip) > I agree that CDS vs. self-selected MPRs vs. OLSR-style MPRs can be > looked at further. However, I am not convinced that there will be > huge gains one way or the other. One argument against CDS or other > solutions for global relay sets, which might be relevant for some environments is that it might end up concentrating transmission > (battery consumption) among fewer nodes. We chose OLSR-style This is a good point that I have thought about. Do MPRs *ensure* that traffic concentration is avoided? Or is it possible that the same node will tend to be an MPR for many neighbors, so that traffic will still be concentrated at the few nodes that are MPRs. (And if MPRs are more spread out, then I argue that this will result in more redundancy in flooding, but this needs to be investigated using simulations.) With a CDS, we know exactly where traffic is concentrated (at the CDS nodes). So, by dynamically changing the router priority (i.e., the priority for being selected as a DR), we can dynamically change the CDS in a controlled manner, and thus fairly distribute the battery consumption among all nodes. There are papers that talk about this. I will end here, but you have some good comments below that we can discuss later. Regards, Richard > MPRs because the MANET group has already selected it as an appropriate > flooding optimization for MANETs, and the code was readily available. > > > The solution described in [Spagnolo03] uses unreliable, periodic > > flooding, which is quite different from the OSPF flooding mechanism, > > and requires a new packet type (LSF) that includes a new sequence > > number used to detect duplicates. > > > > The solution described in [Ogier03] uses a reliable flooding mechanism > > that does not require a new packet type, and uses the same > > mechanism as > > OSPF to detect duplicates (based on the LSA sequence number in the > > database). This flooding mechanism makes efficient use of the Database > > Description (DD) and LS Request packets already defined in OSPF. > > Instead of each node exchanging DD packets separately with each new > > neighbor, each relay node (e.g., CDS node) periodically broadcasts > > to its neighbors (on each manet interface) a set of DD packets, which > > describes the set of LSAs that it is currently responsible for > > reporting (by including the LSA headers with sequence numbers). > > This is similar to the periodic Complete Sequence Numbers > > (CSN) packets > > of IS-IS. If a node i detects via a DD packet that a neighbor > > CDS node j > > has a more recent instance of some LSA, then node i can > > request the LSA > > by sending a LS Request packet to j. More details can be found in > > [Ogier03] (link given above), including an option for > > differential LSAs. > > There are two issues here: whether to flood reliably vs. unreliably, > and whether to devise some concise representation of databases > so that neighbors can make sure that they are in sync. You have > a proposal that combines the two, and it deserves more thought. > > We implemented an unreliable flooding and did not use database > exchange. Obviously, as Fred pointed out, there are scalability > implications to unreliable flooding. Perhaps these can be addressed > by having an adaptive flooding interval that is tuned to the amount > of local topology change going on-- perhaps the best approach is to > use some reliability. But we did find that the performance implications > on routing were not significant-- forwarding based on the imperfect > information did as well as legacy OSPFv2 forwarding. > > We have been considering augmenting the unreliable flooding with a > reliable flooding mechanism to deal with events like Max Aging of > LSAs (which aren't lingering around to be periodically reflooded). > > So in summary, I think that this issue needs to be looked at some > more from a bandwidth efficiency perspective, but we have observed > that the imperfect information does not generally impact the route > selection performance. > > > > > As I mentioned, I am not saying that this is the best solution. > > It is only work in progress, and hopefully other solutions will > > be proposed. There are many choices to make, such as whether > > to use a CDS, and if so, what algorithm to use. > > Comments and suggestions are welcome. > > > > Agreed-- I just hope that we are not too harshly criticized for > adapting what has already been approved as an RFC by this group > to the problem at hand, building an implementation, finding > that it performed fairly well, and putting it on the table for > discussion. > > I also would like the group to consider that there is a new > dimension to this problem. Not only are we concerned about > efficiency in the MANET environment itself, but we also have > to worry about how this glues into the rest of the OSPF network, > particularly if the wireless network is a transit subnet. > We have to worry about i) the possibility of hundreds or thousands > of external LSAs being injected into the wireless network, and > ii) how to potentially mask a rapidly changing wireless environment > so that the rest of the OSPF network is not flooded with lots of > LSAs. My feeling is that solutions to these issues will trump > issues like MPRs vs. CDS and the like. > > Tom _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Nov 13 15:50:53 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA19857 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:50:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKOQE-0005Ss-Gm for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:50:34 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hADKoYfA021003 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:50:34 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKO7P-0003uo-DG for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:31:07 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA18777 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:30:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKO7E-0004eQ-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:30:56 -0500 Received: from manatick.foretec.com ([4.17.168.5] helo=manatick) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKO0V-0004RZ-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:23:59 -0500 Received: from [132.151.6.22] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by manatick with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1AKNqx-0002nY-57 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:14:07 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKNqr-00029W-43; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:14:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKNqM-000269-UI for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:13:31 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA17388 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:13:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKNqL-0004Ew-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:13:29 -0500 Received: from neptune.webvis.net ([128.242.238.141] helo=ulfius.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKNqL-0004Et-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:13:29 -0500 Received: from ulfius.com ([207.153.226.197]) by ulfius.com ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 03:47:43 +0800 SGT From: "Robert Cain" Reply-to: manet@ulfius.com To: manet@ietf.org Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 20:12:48 +0000 Subject: RE: [manet] AODV Question Message-id: <3fb3dfdf.f16.0@ulfius.com> X-User-Info: 81.103.218.171 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rcpt-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I also agree, the single byte could well be inadequate for a chain configured network which was carrying small amounts of data. However in such chain networks where hop counts are exceeding the limit set by use of the byte then unless the network was unusually stable the routes would be continually failing due to the high hop count. In such a network AODV is not the best way to route packets. If the network was very stable and resembled a fixed link network then perhaps something like OLSR would be more appropriate than AODV. Rob Cain >Agreed. A branched chain configuration would be difficult to support with only a BYTE. My point is that although most everyone involved in development and testing of this protocol have envisioned a 'cluster of connected nodes' arrangement, the reality is the sum total of all possible topolgies in a wireless network of this type is potentially limitless. Limited in effect by only the range of the radios in the network. How are we to know how some future person or organization will use this protocol? Will they need the extra BYTE? Should we place artificial limits on the protocol by purposefully limiting the hop count, address range, etc.? > >One solution is the "extensions" field in the latest draft of AODV could potentially provide a means to expand upon the protocol in the future if neccessary. >http://moment.cs.ucsb.edu/pub/draft-perkins-manet-aodvbis-00.txt > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Jitesh Shah [mailto:jiteshshahin@yahoo.com] >Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2003 7:36 AM >To: manet@ulfius.com; manet@ietf.org >Subject: RE: [manet] AODV Question > > >Hi, > >It depends on how you see the network. If you are >refering to a network which has a CHAIN topology then >the byte used for RREP and RREQ might be way >insignificant. But when you refer to a well connected >network then the byte seems sufficient. > >Rgds >Jitesh > > --- Robert Cain wrote: > >Connectivity is the number of other nodes each node >> can reach with 1 hop. >> Therefore a connectivity of 10 means there is 10 >> nodes that a can reach >> directly. Obviously in an actual network this would >> vary from node to node. >> >> >> Rob Cain :-) >> >> >> >What does the connectivity parameter specify? Is >> it saying in 100,000 >> nodes only 10 nodes would be connected? >> > >> >-----Original Message----- >> >From: Robert Cain [mailto:tgm@ulfius.com] >> >Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2003 11:13 AM >> >To: DANIEL BYRNE >> >Subject: Re: [manet] AODV Question >> > >> > >> >1 byte seems OK to me. >> > >> >With some simple analysis assuming a circular >> homogeneous network of node >> >count K and a reasonable connectivity C then the >> radius of the network in >> >hops can be derived to be the square root of K/C. >> Which for a network size >> >of 100,000 and a connectivity of 10 gives a hop >> count radius of 100. >> Seeing >> >as a network of size 100,000 will be probably at >> practical limits of size >> >due to performance degradation then I think 1 byte >> may well be enough. >> > >> >hope that helps :-) >> > >> >Rob Cain >> > >> >>if the >> >> >> >>"AODV routing protocol is designed for mobile ad >> hoc networks >> >> with populations of tens to thousands of mobile >> nodes" >> >> >> >>why is the HopCount limited to only a BYTE? This >> effectively limits the >> >number of hops to 255. Why not expand the hop >> count to two bytes into the >> >reseved region of the RREQ packet. Something >> similar could be done with >> >the RREP packet as well. >> >> >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >> >>manet mailing list >> >>manet@ietf.org >> >>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet >> >> >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> manet mailing list >> manet@ietf.org >> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet > >________________________________________________________________________ >Yahoo! India Mobile: Download the latest polyphonic ringtones. >Go to http://in.mobile.yahoo.com > >_______________________________________________ >manet mailing list >manet@ietf.org >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet > >_______________________________________________ >manet mailing list >manet@ietf.org >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet > _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Nov 13 16:30:42 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA21704 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 16:30:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKP2j-0007ta-CJ for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 16:30:23 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hADLULhq030344 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 16:30:21 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKP2j-0007tL-7C for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 16:30:21 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA21613 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 16:30:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKP2h-0005gn-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 16:30:19 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKP2g-0005gk-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 16:30:18 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKP2R-0007mD-21; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 16:30:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKP1h-0007lC-4V for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 16:29:17 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA21555 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 16:29:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKP1e-0005g2-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 16:29:15 -0500 Received: from cms4.etri.re.kr ([129.254.16.14] helo=cms4.cms.etri.re.kr) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKP1e-0005fZ-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 16:29:14 -0500 Received: from jafymobile (dyn133-209.ietf58.ietf.org [130.129.133.209]) by cms4.cms.etri.re.kr with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2657.72) id WA8PZ45W; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 06:24:28 +0900 Reply-To: From: "HyunWook Cha" To: "'Christophe Jelger'" , "'manet'" Cc: "???????" Subject: RE: [manet] Comment on manet gateway autoconf draft. Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:28:28 -0600 Organization: ETRI Message-ID: <002901c3aa2d$18ae9250$d1858182@jafymobile> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <3FB3BA38.8090809@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr> Importance: Normal Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, Christoph. I think that you should consider performance rather than complextity of installation. As I mentioned before, a manet node do not have to worry about prefix continuity (which can be harmful in manet) by using routing header. That is, upper layer sessions will keep forwarding as long as route for the target gateway can be found. Although installation procedure is very simple and easy to use, bad performance will be accepted by users. I think that it is ok if kernel implemenation does not require kernel patch and its form is a module. Again, think the performance at first. HyunWook Cha > -----Original Message----- > From: manet-admin@ietf.org [mailto:manet-admin@ietf.org] On > Behalf Of Christophe Jelger > Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2003 11:07 AM > To: manet > Subject: Re: [manet] Comment on manet gateway autoconf draft. > > > > Hi Ryuji, > > I'm not saying kernel implementation is complex (actually I > don't have > experience in kernel code), I'm rather saying that such code usually > requires that a user who wants to install it needs to have some > knowledge in patching a kernel and stuff like that. Well for > people like > us it is easy to install MIPv6, but for a basic user it requires too > much effort and I think it can prevent people from using it. > I took the > example of MIPv6, because I think many users would be interested by > MIPv6, but if installation is too complex people may just > give up using it. > > I also think MANET is a good example. I you tell basic users > that he can > use MANET functionalities and that it requires very little effort to > install, then they may use it. If you tell them they need to > be network > specialists to install it then they will probably just forget > about it. > Note that I'm not saying that therefore the research community should > not propose protocols/ideas/whatever that are complex to > setup, this is > completely different. I was just trying to motivate the fact that we > decided to avoid the routing header stuff because we want > something that > is simple to develop and install. The main goal there is to propose > something that can be tried very easily. > > Regards, > Christophe > > Ryuji Wakikawa wrote: > > >I don't know why you concern implementation so much. > >You should not assume particular OS. > > > >I don't see any problem to use routing header. We suggested > to use it in > >global6 draft. Are you saying that kernel implementation is complex? > >I disagree with your statement. > > > >ryuji _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Nov 13 20:11:50 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA02756 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 20:11:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKSUk-0007Hf-Hy for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 20:11:31 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAE1BULa027993 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 20:11:30 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKSUk-0007HQ-E5 for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 20:11:30 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA02731 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 20:11:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKSUi-0001iM-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 20:11:28 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKSUh-0001iJ-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 20:11:27 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKSUH-0007Ct-Kg; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 20:11:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKSU8-0007CY-Rc for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 20:10:52 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA02700 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 20:10:41 -0500 (EST) From: LIM_Wee_Seng@ema.gov.sg Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKSU6-0001hT-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 20:10:50 -0500 Received: from venus.gems2.gov.sg ([160.96.65.2]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKSU1-0001h6-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 20:10:49 -0500 Received: from sehubm001.gems2.gov.sg ([10.235.129.12]) by venus.gems2.gov.sg (AIX5.1/8.11.6p2/8.11.0) with ESMTP id hAE18a894444 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 09:08:36 +0800 To: manet@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 09:10:40 +0800 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on SEHUBM001/GOV/H/SINEXTRA(Release 5.0.12 |February 13, 2003) at 11/14/2003 09:10:48 AM, Serialize complete at 11/14/2003 09:10:48 AM Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_alternative 00066C6D48256DDE_=" Subject: [manet] MANET Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 00066C6D48256DDE_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Does anyone know if I can get any introductory books on MANET?=20 =20 =20 =20 Regards, =A0 Lim Wee Seng =A0 --=_alternative 00066C6D48256DDE_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,

Does anyone know if I can = get any introductory books on MANET?
 
 
 
Regards,
=A0
Lim Wee Seng
=A0
--=_alternative 00066C6D48256DDE_=-- _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Nov 13 23:27:37 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA10936 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 23:27:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKVYD-0005yy-8a for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 23:27:19 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAE4RHU7022992 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 23:27:17 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKVYD-0005yl-5F for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 23:27:17 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA10922 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 23:27:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKVYB-0005CI-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 23:27:15 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKVYA-0005CF-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 23:27:14 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKVXy-0005ui-Ag; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 23:27:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKVX7-0005q7-3E for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 23:26:09 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA10894 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 23:25:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKVX4-0005Ay-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 23:26:06 -0500 Received: from web8202.mail.in.yahoo.com ([203.199.70.115]) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKVX3-0005Ah-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 23:26:06 -0500 Message-ID: <20031114042531.46825.qmail@web8202.mail.in.yahoo.com> Received: from [203.201.200.249] by web8202.mail.in.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 04:25:31 GMT Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 04:25:31 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jitesh=20Shah?= Subject: RE: [manet] AODV Question To: DANIEL BYRNE , manet@ulfius.com, manet@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <39B01E2189D99F4B8C9612462DB3922A0CEBA928@srv-exchange.adtran.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Daniel, I completely agree with you when you suggest that one must take care of the future needs when we are in the development stage. We might have to face a situation in the real life when we might actually need more than a byte. The things being in development stage, I believe perhaps this is the right time to incorporate the changes rather than evolving with AODV 1.1 at a later stage :-) Rgds Jitesh --- DANIEL BYRNE wrote: > Agreed. A branched chain configuration would be > difficult to support with only a BYTE. My point is > that although most everyone involved in development > and testing of this protocol have envisioned a > 'cluster of connected nodes' arrangement, the > reality is the sum total of all possible topolgies > in a wireless network of this type is potentially > limitless. Limited in effect by only the range of > the radios in the network. How are we to know how > some future person or organization will use this > protocol? Will they need the extra BYTE? Should we > place artificial limits on the protocol by > purposefully limiting the hop count, address range, > etc.? > > One solution is the "extensions" field in the latest > draft of AODV could potentially provide a means to > expand upon the protocol in the future if > neccessary. > http://moment.cs.ucsb.edu/pub/draft-perkins-manet-aodvbis-00.txt > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jitesh Shah [mailto:jiteshshahin@yahoo.com] > Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2003 7:36 AM > To: manet@ulfius.com; manet@ietf.org > Subject: RE: [manet] AODV Question > > > Hi, > > It depends on how you see the network. If you are > refering to a network which has a CHAIN topology > then > the byte used for RREP and RREQ might be way > insignificant. But when you refer to a well > connected > network then the byte seems sufficient. > > Rgds > Jitesh > > --- Robert Cain wrote: > > Connectivity is the number of other nodes each node > > can reach with 1 hop. > > Therefore a connectivity of 10 means there is 10 > > nodes that a can reach > > directly. Obviously in an actual network this > would > > vary from node to node. > > > > > > Rob Cain :-) > > > > > > >What does the connectivity parameter specify? Is > > it saying in 100,000 > > nodes only 10 nodes would be connected? > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > > >From: Robert Cain [mailto:tgm@ulfius.com] > > >Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2003 11:13 AM > > >To: DANIEL BYRNE > > >Subject: Re: [manet] AODV Question > > > > > > > > >1 byte seems OK to me. > > > > > >With some simple analysis assuming a circular > > homogeneous network of node > > >count K and a reasonable connectivity C then the > > radius of the network in > > >hops can be derived to be the square root of K/C. > > Which for a network size > > >of 100,000 and a connectivity of 10 gives a hop > > count radius of 100. > > Seeing > > >as a network of size 100,000 will be probably at > > practical limits of size > > >due to performance degradation then I think 1 > byte > > may well be enough. > > > > > >hope that helps :-) > > > > > >Rob Cain > > > > > >>if the > > >> > > >>"AODV routing protocol is designed for mobile ad > > hoc networks > > >> with populations of tens to thousands of > mobile > > nodes" > > >> > > >>why is the HopCount limited to only a BYTE? > This > > effectively limits the > > >number of hops to 255. Why not expand the hop > > count to two bytes into the > > >reseved region of the RREQ packet. Something > > similar could be done with > > >the RREP packet as well. > > >> > > >> > > >>_______________________________________________ > > >>manet mailing list > > >>manet@ietf.org > > >>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet > > >> > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > manet mailing list > > manet@ietf.org > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Yahoo! India Mobile: Download the latest polyphonic > ringtones. > Go to http://in.mobile.yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > manet mailing list > manet@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet ________________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! India Mobile: Download the latest polyphonic ringtones. Go to http://in.mobile.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Nov 14 03:30:45 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA01363 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 03:30:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKZLT-0004MW-8e for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 03:30:27 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAE8UM2J016764 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 03:30:22 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKZLR-0004MJ-Vn for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 03:30:22 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA01339 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 03:30:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKZLP-0000xf-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 03:30:19 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKZLO-0000xc-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 03:30:18 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKZL9-0004I0-4g; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 03:30:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKZKy-0004E8-Bj for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 03:29:52 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA01336 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 03:29:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKZKv-0000xT-00 for manet@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 03:29:49 -0500 Received: from dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr ([130.79.44.193]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKZKv-0000xQ-00 for manet@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 03:29:49 -0500 Received: from dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr (patinet.u-strasbg.fr [130.79.90.172]) by dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian-6.6) with ESMTP id hAE8eQnu001625; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 09:40:28 +0100 Message-ID: <3FB49243.8090603@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr> Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 09:28:51 +0100 From: Christophe Jelger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.0.0) Gecko/20020623 Debian/1.0.0-0.woody.1 X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "'manet'" CC: autonet@ipv6.or.kr Subject: Re: [manet] Comment on manet gateway autoconf draft. References: <002901c3aa2d$18ae9250$d1858182@jafymobile> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi again, Well actually I don't agree with your statement when you say that prefix continuity can be harmful ... harmful to what ? Moreover I also disagree when you say "bad performance" as I don't think prefix continuity would lead to bad peformance, I mean in terms of packet delay for example. In contrast I agree that if we want to maximize prefix stability then routing might be sub-optimal. Again if we don't care about prefix stability (prefix continuity is inherent to the protocol), then routing would be optimal (a node finds the closest gateway), and transport layer sessions can be maintained with MIPv6. Actually I think it is good to have different solutions/proposals, they can be compared and if implementations are available one can choose one or another. Well I don't really know if this address autoconfiguration stuff is being discussed at the IETF meeting (I could not go there), but if it does not become a MANET objective we won't have to bother about finding the best solution. Regards, Christophe HyunWook Cha wrote: >Hello, Christoph. > >I think that you should consider performance rather than complextity of >installation. >As I mentioned before, a manet node do not have to worry about prefix >continuity (which can be harmful in manet) by using routing header. >That is, upper layer sessions will keep forwarding as long as route for >the target gateway can be found. > >Although installation procedure is very simple and easy to use, bad >performance will be accepted by users. I think that it is ok if kernel >implemenation does not require kernel patch and its form is a module. >Again, think the performance at first. > >HyunWook Cha > > > > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: manet-admin@ietf.org [mailto:manet-admin@ietf.org] On >>Behalf Of Christophe Jelger >>Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2003 11:07 AM >>To: manet >>Subject: Re: [manet] Comment on manet gateway autoconf draft. >> >> >> >>Hi Ryuji, >> >>I'm not saying kernel implementation is complex (actually I >>don't have >>experience in kernel code), I'm rather saying that such code usually >>requires that a user who wants to install it needs to have some >>knowledge in patching a kernel and stuff like that. Well for >>people like >>us it is easy to install MIPv6, but for a basic user it requires too >>much effort and I think it can prevent people from using it. >>I took the >>example of MIPv6, because I think many users would be interested by >>MIPv6, but if installation is too complex people may just >>give up using it. >> >>I also think MANET is a good example. I you tell basic users >>that he can >>use MANET functionalities and that it requires very little effort to >>install, then they may use it. If you tell them they need to >>be network >>specialists to install it then they will probably just forget >>about it. >>Note that I'm not saying that therefore the research community should >>not propose protocols/ideas/whatever that are complex to >>setup, this is >>completely different. I was just trying to motivate the fact that we >>decided to avoid the routing header stuff because we want >>something that >>is simple to develop and install. The main goal there is to propose >>something that can be tried very easily. >> >>Regards, >>Christophe >> >>Ryuji Wakikawa wrote: >> >> >> >>>I don't know why you concern implementation so much. >>>You should not assume particular OS. >>> >>>I don't see any problem to use routing header. We suggested >>> >>> >>to use it in >> >> >>>global6 draft. Are you saying that kernel implementation is complex? >>>I disagree with your statement. >>> >>>ryuji >>> >>> > > > _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Nov 14 05:24:40 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA04898 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 05:24:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKb7m-0003gp-B0 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 05:24:24 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAEAOMcU014183 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 05:24:22 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKb7l-0003gY-Gr for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 05:24:21 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA04878 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 05:24:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKb7h-0002g0-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 05:24:17 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKb7h-0002fx-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 05:24:17 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKb7S-0003cK-DI; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 05:24:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKb78-0003bk-1Y for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 05:23:42 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA04862 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 05:23:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKb74-0002fb-00 for manet@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 05:23:38 -0500 Received: from tom.upf.es ([193.145.39.17]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKb73-0002fP-00 for manet@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 05:23:37 -0500 Received: from tom.upf.es (tom.upf.es [127.0.0.1]) by tom.upf.es (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAEANW4J002523 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 11:23:33 +0100 Received: from upf.edu (efpc396.upf.es [193.145.45.186]) by tom.upf.es (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAEANVZo002505; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 11:23:31 +0100 Message-ID: <3FB4ACF2.8000003@upf.edu> Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 11:22:42 +0100 From: Manel Guerrero User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030727 Thunderbird/0.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jitesh Shah CC: DANIEL BYRNE , manet@ulfius.com, manet@ietf.org Subject: Re: [manet] AODV Question References: <20031114042531.46825.qmail@web8202.mail.in.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20031114042531.46825.qmail@web8202.mail.in.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello everybody, I tried to ignore this thread from the beginning because I have better things to do. But now I cannot help it. ;) 1) IPv4 headers have a 8-bit field called TTL (Time To Live). ("TTL (time to live): each router must decrement by 1 and discard if zero. Also decrement if router holds for longer than 1 sec.") 2) IPv6 headers have a 8-bit field called Hop Limit. ("hop limit (8 bit): Decremented by one by each node that forwards the packet. When the hop limit field reaches zero, the packet is discarded.") 3) AODV is a UDP protocol. So The AODV message goes wrapped in an IP header. Even if AODV message would have a bigger hop count, the IP packet has only a 8-bit field. Therefore, it will die after the 255 hops. 4) Point number 3 is not a big problem since I have seen some AODV implementations that reset IP's TTL or Hop Limit to 255 at each hop. Anyway, once the route is constructed, when you would send the data, the IP packets would die before reaching the final destination. (Yep, at the 255 hops :) ) (And there is no much point in to constructing a route that cannot be used ;) ). Regards, Manel Guerrero Zapata P.D.: This is my new email address. The previous one: (Manel.Guerrero-Zapata@nokia.com) does not work anymore. Jitesh Shah wrote: > Hi Daniel, > > I completely agree with you when you suggest that one > must take care of the future needs when we are in the > development stage. > > We might have to face a situation in the real life > when we might actually need more than a byte. The > things being in development stage, I believe perhaps > this is the right time to incorporate the changes > rather than evolving with AODV 1.1 at a later stage > :-) > > Rgds > Jitesh > > > > --- DANIEL BYRNE wrote: > > Agreed. A branched chain configuration would be > >>difficult to support with only a BYTE. My point is >>that although most everyone involved in development >>and testing of this protocol have envisioned a >>'cluster of connected nodes' arrangement, the >>reality is the sum total of all possible topolgies >>in a wireless network of this type is potentially >>limitless. Limited in effect by only the range of >>the radios in the network. How are we to know how >>some future person or organization will use this >>protocol? Will they need the extra BYTE? Should we >>place artificial limits on the protocol by >>purposefully limiting the hop count, address range, >>etc.? >> >>One solution is the "extensions" field in the latest >>draft of AODV could potentially provide a means to >>expand upon the protocol in the future if >>neccessary. >> > > http://moment.cs.ucsb.edu/pub/draft-perkins-manet-aodvbis-00.txt > >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Jitesh Shah [mailto:jiteshshahin@yahoo.com] >>Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2003 7:36 AM >>To: manet@ulfius.com; manet@ietf.org >>Subject: RE: [manet] AODV Question >> >> >>Hi, >> >>It depends on how you see the network. If you are >>refering to a network which has a CHAIN topology >>then >>the byte used for RREP and RREQ might be way >>insignificant. But when you refer to a well >>connected >>network then the byte seems sufficient. >> >>Rgds >>Jitesh >> >> --- Robert Cain wrote: > >>Connectivity is the number of other nodes each node >> >>>can reach with 1 hop. >>>Therefore a connectivity of 10 means there is 10 >>>nodes that a can reach >>>directly. Obviously in an actual network this >> >>would >> >>>vary from node to node. >>> >>> >>>Rob Cain :-) >>> >>> >>> >>>>What does the connectivity parameter specify? Is >>> >>>it saying in 100,000 >>>nodes only 10 nodes would be connected? >>> >>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>From: Robert Cain [mailto:tgm@ulfius.com] >>>>Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2003 11:13 AM >>>>To: DANIEL BYRNE >>>>Subject: Re: [manet] AODV Question >>>> >>>> >>>>1 byte seems OK to me. >>>> >>>>With some simple analysis assuming a circular >>> >>>homogeneous network of node >>> >>>>count K and a reasonable connectivity C then the >>> >>>radius of the network in >>> >>>>hops can be derived to be the square root of K/C. >>> >>>Which for a network size >>> >>>>of 100,000 and a connectivity of 10 gives a hop >>> >>>count radius of 100. >>>Seeing >>> >>>>as a network of size 100,000 will be probably at >>> >>>practical limits of size >>> >>>>due to performance degradation then I think 1 >> >>byte >> >>>may well be enough. >>> >>>>hope that helps :-) >>>> >>>>Rob Cain >>>> >>>> >>>>>if the >>>>> >>>>>"AODV routing protocol is designed for mobile ad >>> >>>hoc networks >>> >>>>> with populations of tens to thousands of >> >>mobile >> >>>nodes" >>> >>>>>why is the HopCount limited to only a BYTE? >> >>This >> >>>effectively limits the >>> >>>>number of hops to 255. Why not expand the hop >>> >>>count to two bytes into the >>> >>>>reseved region of the RREQ packet. Something >>> >>>similar could be done with >>> >>>>the RREP packet as well. >>>> >>>>> >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>manet mailing list >>>>>manet@ietf.org >>>>>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet >>>>> >>>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>manet mailing list >>>manet@ietf.org >>>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet >> >> > ________________________________________________________________________ > >>Yahoo! India Mobile: Download the latest polyphonic >>ringtones. >>Go to http://in.mobile.yahoo.com >> >>_______________________________________________ >>manet mailing list >>manet@ietf.org >>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Yahoo! India Mobile: Download the latest polyphonic ringtones. > Go to http://in.mobile.yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > manet mailing list > manet@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Nov 14 05:27:29 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA05043 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 05:27:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKbAW-00045w-Ja for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 05:27:13 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAEARC85015734 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 05:27:12 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKbAW-00045h-6O for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 05:27:12 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA05010 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 05:26:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKbAS-0002j8-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 05:27:08 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKbAS-0002j5-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 05:27:08 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKbAM-0003vE-Ow; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 05:27:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKb9z-0003ux-9p for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 05:26:39 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA05003 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 05:26:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKb9v-0002it-00 for manet@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 05:26:35 -0500 Received: from neon.tcs.hut.fi ([130.233.215.20]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKb9v-0002iq-00 for manet@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 05:26:35 -0500 Received: from rhea.tcs.hut.fi (rhea.tcs.hut.fi [130.233.215.147]) by neon.tcs.hut.fi (Postfix) with ESMTP id 939A98002E3; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 12:26:35 +0200 (EET) Received: from rhea.tcs.hut.fi (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rhea.tcs.hut.fi (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian-6.6) with ESMTP id hAEAQZsj009676; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 12:26:35 +0200 Received: (from anttit@localhost) by rhea.tcs.hut.fi (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian-6.6) id hAEAQYPZ009674; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 12:26:34 +0200 From: Antti Tuominen Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 12:26:34 +0200 To: DANIEL BYRNE Cc: manet@ietf.org Subject: Re: [manet] AODV Question Message-ID: <20031114102630.GA9240@rhea.tcs.hut.fi> References: <39B01E2189D99F4B8C9612462DB3922A0CEBA920@srv-exchange.adtran.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <39B01E2189D99F4B8C9612462DB3922A0CEBA920@srv-exchange.adtran.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.28i Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , On Wed, Nov 12, 2003 at 10:35:10AM -0600, DANIEL BYRNE wrote: > if the > > "AODV routing protocol is designed for mobile ad hoc networks > with populations of tens to thousands of mobile nodes" > > why is the HopCount limited to only a BYTE? This effectively limits > the number of hops to 255. Why not expand the hop count to two > bytes into the reseved region of the RREQ packet. Something similar > could be done with the RREP packet as well. Hello Daniel, This limitation is already inherent in the IPv4 and IPv6 protocols (IPv4 Time To Live is 8bits and IPv6 Hop Limit is 8bits). AODV doesn't restrict it any further. I see no point extending the AODV Hop Limit field. Regards, Antti _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Nov 14 05:36:35 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA05299 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 05:36:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKbJH-0004dT-Or for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 05:36:20 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAEAaFgP017813 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 05:36:15 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKbJH-0004dE-In for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 05:36:15 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA05273 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 05:36:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKbJD-0002qV-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 05:36:12 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKbJD-0002qS-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 05:36:11 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKbJ5-0004Yw-5D; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 05:36:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKbIG-0004UX-Kl for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 05:35:12 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA05257 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 05:34:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKbIC-0002q7-00 for manet@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 05:35:08 -0500 Received: from mr1.cc.ic.ac.uk ([155.198.5.111]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKbIC-0002px-00 for manet@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 05:35:08 -0500 Received: from hide.ee.ic.ac.uk ([155.198.120.14] helo=eecfsag2.ee.ic.ac.uk) by mr1.cc.ic.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1AKbHf-0003jR-01 for manet@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:34:35 +0000 Received: from folly ([155.198.125.50]) by eecfsag2.ee.ic.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 1.90 #1) id 1AKbFF-0003aK-00; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:32:05 +0000 From: "Edwin Chan" To: Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:34:21 -0000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="big5" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [manet] Estimate of end-to-end delay Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all A similar question appeared some while ago but I haven't seen any reply. So I'll repeat here. Is there any algorithm for estimating or predicting end-to-end delay in a manet? Also how wrong is that if I say the delay is proportional to the hop count of a path? Thanks in advance. Edwin _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Nov 14 05:42:34 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA05441 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 05:42:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKbP3-0005Z5-Ka for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 05:42:19 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAEAgDh3021390 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 05:42:13 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKbP3-0005Yv-C9 for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 05:42:13 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA05414 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 05:41:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKbOz-0002vB-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 05:42:09 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKbOz-0002v7-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 05:42:09 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKbOu-0005Ur-Bp; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 05:42:04 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKbO3-0005TR-TV for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 05:41:11 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA05389 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 05:40:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKbO0-0002uS-00 for manet@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 05:41:08 -0500 Received: from smtp7.hy.skanova.net ([195.67.199.140]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKbNz-0002uP-00 for manet@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 05:41:07 -0500 Received: from [217.211.83.187] (h187n2fls35o1121.telia.com [217.211.83.187]) by smtp7.hy.skanova.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEAeqeF004902; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 11:40:52 +0100 (CET) Subject: RE: [manet] AODV Question From: Erik =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Nordstr=F6m?= To: Jitesh Shah Cc: DANIEL BYRNE , manet@ulfius.com, manet@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <20031114042531.46825.qmail@web8202.mail.in.yahoo.com> References: <20031114042531.46825.qmail@web8202.mail.in.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1068806456.6057.25.camel@replicator.mine.nu> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 (1.4.5-7) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 11:40:56 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Why would anyone want to flood an ad hoc 255 hops away? Maybe an even more important question is, would that route be usable? I think not... Only extremely large ad hoc networks would have a radius of 255 hops unless they are very stretched out. Besides, as people have already pointed out, the IP ttl is already an 8-bit field. cheers, Erik On Fri, 2003-11-14 at 05:25, Jitesh Shah wrote: > Hi Daniel, > > I completely agree with you when you suggest that one > must take care of the future needs when we are in the > development stage. > > We might have to face a situation in the real life > when we might actually need more than a byte. The > things being in development stage, I believe perhaps > this is the right time to incorporate the changes > rather than evolving with AODV 1.1 at a later stage > :-) > > Rgds > Jitesh > > > > --- DANIEL BYRNE wrote: > > Agreed. A branched chain configuration would be > > difficult to support with only a BYTE. My point is > > that although most everyone involved in development > > and testing of this protocol have envisioned a > > 'cluster of connected nodes' arrangement, the > > reality is the sum total of all possible topolgies > > in a wireless network of this type is potentially > > limitless. Limited in effect by only the range of > > the radios in the network. How are we to know how > > some future person or organization will use this > > protocol? Will they need the extra BYTE? Should we > > place artificial limits on the protocol by > > purposefully limiting the hop count, address range, > > etc.? > > > > One solution is the "extensions" field in the latest > > draft of AODV could potentially provide a means to > > expand upon the protocol in the future if > > neccessary. > > > http://moment.cs.ucsb.edu/pub/draft-perkins-manet-aodvbis-00.txt > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Jitesh Shah [mailto:jiteshshahin@yahoo.com] > > Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2003 7:36 AM > > To: manet@ulfius.com; manet@ietf.org > > Subject: RE: [manet] AODV Question > > > > > > Hi, > > > > It depends on how you see the network. If you are > > refering to a network which has a CHAIN topology > > then > > the byte used for RREP and RREQ might be way > > insignificant. But when you refer to a well > > connected > > network then the byte seems sufficient. > > > > Rgds > > Jitesh > > > > --- Robert Cain wrote: > > > Connectivity is the number of other nodes each node > > > can reach with 1 hop. > > > Therefore a connectivity of 10 means there is 10 > > > nodes that a can reach > > > directly. Obviously in an actual network this > > would > > > vary from node to node. > > > > > > > > > Rob Cain :-) > > > > > > > > > >What does the connectivity parameter specify? Is > > > it saying in 100,000 > > > nodes only 10 nodes would be connected? > > > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > > > >From: Robert Cain [mailto:tgm@ulfius.com] > > > >Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2003 11:13 AM > > > >To: DANIEL BYRNE > > > >Subject: Re: [manet] AODV Question > > > > > > > > > > > >1 byte seems OK to me. > > > > > > > >With some simple analysis assuming a circular > > > homogeneous network of node > > > >count K and a reasonable connectivity C then the > > > radius of the network in > > > >hops can be derived to be the square root of K/C. > > > Which for a network size > > > >of 100,000 and a connectivity of 10 gives a hop > > > count radius of 100. > > > Seeing > > > >as a network of size 100,000 will be probably at > > > practical limits of size > > > >due to performance degradation then I think 1 > > byte > > > may well be enough. > > > > > > > >hope that helps :-) > > > > > > > >Rob Cain > > > > > > > >>if the > > > >> > > > >>"AODV routing protocol is designed for mobile ad > > > hoc networks > > > >> with populations of tens to thousands of > > mobile > > > nodes" > > > >> > > > >>why is the HopCount limited to only a BYTE? > > This > > > effectively limits the > > > >number of hops to 255. Why not expand the hop > > > count to two bytes into the > > > >reseved region of the RREQ packet. Something > > > similar could be done with > > > >the RREP packet as well. > > > >> > > > >> > > > >>_______________________________________________ > > > >>manet mailing list > > > >>manet@ietf.org > > > >>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > manet mailing list > > > manet@ietf.org > > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Yahoo! India Mobile: Download the latest polyphonic > > ringtones. > > Go to http://in.mobile.yahoo.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > manet mailing list > > manet@ietf.org > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Yahoo! India Mobile: Download the latest polyphonic ringtones. > Go to http://in.mobile.yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > manet mailing list > manet@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Nov 14 05:48:34 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA05620 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 05:48:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKbUv-0005y4-VI for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 05:48:18 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAEAmH3k022934 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 05:48:17 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKbUv-0005xp-PZ for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 05:48:17 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA05599 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 05:48:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKbUr-00032R-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 05:48:13 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKbUr-00032O-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 05:48:13 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKbUg-0005qc-Kb; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 05:48:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKbTn-0005qC-EN for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 05:47:07 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA05585 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 05:46:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKbTj-00031w-00 for manet@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 05:47:03 -0500 Received: from neon.tcs.hut.fi ([130.233.215.20]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKbTj-00031t-00 for manet@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 05:47:03 -0500 Received: from rhea.tcs.hut.fi (rhea.tcs.hut.fi [130.233.215.147]) by neon.tcs.hut.fi (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82A958002E5; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 12:47:04 +0200 (EET) Received: from rhea.tcs.hut.fi (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rhea.tcs.hut.fi (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian-6.6) with ESMTP id hAEAl4sj009806; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 12:47:04 +0200 Received: (from anttit@localhost) by rhea.tcs.hut.fi (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian-6.6) id hAEAl4j2009804; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 12:47:04 +0200 From: Antti Tuominen Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 12:47:04 +0200 To: redouane Cc: manet@ietf.org Subject: Re: [manet] AODV paquet Message-ID: <20031114104700.GB9240@rhea.tcs.hut.fi> References: <20031113192944.60276.qmail@web40614.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20031113192944.60276.qmail@web40614.mail.yahoo.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.28i Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , On Thu, Nov 13, 2003 at 08:29:44PM +0100, redouane wrote: > Hi > > AODV use port UDP 654, I ask if AODV paquets are > encapsulated in IP paquet without any other data. Or > is possible to have other data (or other protocols > paquets) in the same IP paquet? Hello Redouane, No, you can't send any other data in the AODV control message packet. UDP is a final protocol, and you can't put two final protocols in one packet. If you use something like the Hop-By-Hop flooding stuff, mentioned in AODV for IPv6 draft, you can have any final protocol in the packet. There also is (or was?) a draft about including more than one final protocol in one IP packet. Regards, Antti _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Nov 14 06:09:43 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA06142 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 06:09:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKbpM-0007Kf-LG for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 06:09:27 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAEB9OYu028184 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 06:09:24 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKbpM-0007KV-FR for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 06:09:24 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA06127 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 06:09:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKbpI-0003If-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 06:09:20 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKbpI-0003Ic-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 06:09:20 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKbp0-0007GI-MN; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 06:09:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKbo4-0007D6-KP for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 06:08:04 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA06098 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 06:07:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKbo0-0003I7-00 for manet@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 06:08:00 -0500 Received: from cheviot3.ncl.ac.uk ([128.240.233.117]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKbnz-0003Hv-00 for manet@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 06:08:00 -0500 Received: from ncl.ac.uk (deerbook.ncl.ac.uk [128.240.149.114]) by cheviot3.ncl.ac.uk (8.10.1-20030918-patch/8.10.1) with ESMTP id hAEB7k814708; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 11:07:46 GMT Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 11:07:47 +0000 Subject: Re: [manet] AODV Question Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Cc: Jitesh Shah , DANIEL BYRNE , manet@ulfius.com, manet@ietf.org To: From: Einar Vollset In-Reply-To: <1068806456.6057.25.camel@replicator.mine.nu> Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) X-Newcastle-MailScanner-Information: Please contact Postmaster@newcastle.ac.uk for more information X-Newcastle-MailScanner: Found to be clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable See now I can't help myself either ;-) On Friday, Nov 14, 2003, at 10:40 Europe/London, Erik Nordstr=F6m wrote: > Why would anyone want to flood an ad hoc 255 hops away? I presume you mean why would anyone want to communicate with a node 255 hops away. I don't think it is in the realm of science fiction to envisage much=20 larger networks using MANET technology (such as those envisaged in pervasive or=20 ubiquitous computing scenarios). I know you disagree on this by the way as I was there for the=20 presentation of your very good paper at PWC arguing this point*. However, it can be argued that the uses of ad hoc networking technology=20= can be envisaged to extend beyond the current focus of extending the reach of=20= base stations and for use in laptops and PDAs. There is an argument (which I=20= hear _alot_ from non-MANET people) which goes, why try to do this, surely=20 soon the world will be one big hotspot? * C. Tschudin, H. Lundgren, E. Nordstr=F6m, "Embedding MANETs in the Real World", PWC 2003, Venice ITALY > Maybe an even > more important question is, would that route be usable? I think not... > Only extremely large ad hoc networks would have a radius of 255 hops > unless they are very stretched out. Besides, as people have already > pointed out, the IP ttl is already an 8-bit field. On the above we totally agree. Cheers, Einar ---------------------------------------- Einar Vollset PhD Student School of Computing Science University of Newcastle, UK http://vollset.org -----------------------------------------= _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Nov 14 06:20:49 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA06490 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 06:20:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKc09-0007rM-Oo for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 06:20:34 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAEBKXgm030213 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 06:20:33 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKc09-0007rE-Ht for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 06:20:33 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA06454 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 06:20:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKc05-0003T9-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 06:20:29 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKc04-0003Ss-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 06:20:28 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKbze-0007im-8N; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 06:20:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKbzJ-0007hd-9C for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 06:19:41 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA06426 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 06:19:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKbzF-0003SB-00 for manet@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 06:19:37 -0500 Received: from smtp7.hy.skanova.net ([195.67.199.140]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKbzE-0003S3-00 for manet@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 06:19:36 -0500 Received: from [217.211.83.187] (h187n2fls35o1121.telia.com [217.211.83.187]) by smtp7.hy.skanova.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAEBJNeF028458; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 12:19:23 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: [manet] AODV Question From: Erik =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Nordstr=F6m?= To: Einar Vollset Cc: Jitesh Shah , DANIEL BYRNE , manet@ulfius.com, manet@ietf.org In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Message-Id: <1068808767.6057.52.camel@replicator.mine.nu> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 (1.4.5-7) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 12:19:27 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by smtp7.hy.skanova.net id hAEBJNeF028458 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, 2003-11-14 at 12:07, Einar Vollset wrote: > See now I can't help myself either ;-) >=20 >=20 > On Friday, Nov 14, 2003, at 10:40 Europe/London, Erik Nordstr=C3=B6m wr= ote: >=20 > > Why would anyone want to flood an ad hoc 255 hops away? >=20 > I presume you mean why would anyone want to communicate with a node > 255 hops away. > I don't think it is in the realm of science fiction to envisage much=20 > larger networks > using MANET technology (such as those envisaged in pervasive or=20 > ubiquitous > computing scenarios). Then the question would be whether you would use AODV in such a scenario or some specialized protocol? If we are assuming science fiction scenarios, can't we also assume that there will be some science fiction technology available at that time that works much better than today's AODV would? I think it is hard enough to design for a 100 node network... BR Erik _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Nov 14 10:14:33 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA14330 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:14:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKfeJ-00059K-Vn for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:14:17 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAEFEFpl019788 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:14:15 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKfeJ-000595-Oe for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:14:15 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA14231 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:14:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKfeH-0006fJ-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:14:13 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKfeH-0006fG-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:14:13 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKfe5-00057Z-H3; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:14:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKfdm-00053e-I2 for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:13:42 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA14109 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:13:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKfdj-0006df-00 for manet@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:13:39 -0500 Received: from itc100.adtran.com ([66.0.238.100] helo=srv-exchange2.adtran.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKfdi-0006dF-00 for manet@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:13:39 -0500 Received: by srv-exchange2.adtran.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 09:13:33 -0600 Message-ID: <39B01E2189D99F4B8C9612462DB3922A0CEBA940@srv-exchange.adtran.com> From: DANIEL BYRNE To: manet@ulfius.com, manet@ietf.org Subject: RE: [manet] AODV Question Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 09:13:29 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , I forgot about the IPv4 TTL. Good point. Sounds like the limitations in AODV goes beyond what can be fixed within the protocol itself. However, to the point that "who would want to connect to a station 255 hops away?" well I would, but maybe not with AODV. -----Original Message----- From: Manel Guerrero [mailto:manel.guerrero@upf.edu] Sent: Friday, November 14, 2003 4:23 AM To: Jitesh Shah Cc: DANIEL BYRNE; manet@ulfius.com; manet@ietf.org Subject: Re: [manet] AODV Question Hello everybody, I tried to ignore this thread from the beginning because I have better things to do. But now I cannot help it. ;) 1) IPv4 headers have a 8-bit field called TTL (Time To Live). ("TTL (time to live): each router must decrement by 1 and discard if zero. Also decrement if router holds for longer than 1 sec.") 2) IPv6 headers have a 8-bit field called Hop Limit. ("hop limit (8 bit): Decremented by one by each node that forwards the packet. When the hop limit field reaches zero, the packet is discarded.") 3) AODV is a UDP protocol. So The AODV message goes wrapped in an IP header. Even if AODV message would have a bigger hop count, the IP packet has only a 8-bit field. Therefore, it will die after the 255 hops. 4) Point number 3 is not a big problem since I have seen some AODV implementations that reset IP's TTL or Hop Limit to 255 at each hop. Anyway, once the route is constructed, when you would send the data, the IP packets would die before reaching the final destination. (Yep, at the 255 hops :) ) (And there is no much point in to constructing a route that cannot be used ;) ). Regards, Manel Guerrero Zapata P.D.: This is my new email address. The previous one: (Manel.Guerrero-Zapata@nokia.com) does not work anymore. Jitesh Shah wrote: > Hi Daniel, > > I completely agree with you when you suggest that one > must take care of the future needs when we are in the > development stage. > > We might have to face a situation in the real life > when we might actually need more than a byte. The > things being in development stage, I believe perhaps > this is the right time to incorporate the changes > rather than evolving with AODV 1.1 at a later stage > :-) > > Rgds > Jitesh > > > > --- DANIEL BYRNE wrote: > > Agreed. A branched chain configuration would be > >>difficult to support with only a BYTE. My point is >>that although most everyone involved in development >>and testing of this protocol have envisioned a >>'cluster of connected nodes' arrangement, the >>reality is the sum total of all possible topolgies >>in a wireless network of this type is potentially >>limitless. Limited in effect by only the range of >>the radios in the network. How are we to know how >>some future person or organization will use this >>protocol? Will they need the extra BYTE? Should we >>place artificial limits on the protocol by >>purposefully limiting the hop count, address range, >>etc.? >> >>One solution is the "extensions" field in the latest >>draft of AODV could potentially provide a means to >>expand upon the protocol in the future if >>neccessary. >> > > http://moment.cs.ucsb.edu/pub/draft-perkins-manet-aodvbis-00.txt > >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Jitesh Shah [mailto:jiteshshahin@yahoo.com] >>Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2003 7:36 AM >>To: manet@ulfius.com; manet@ietf.org >>Subject: RE: [manet] AODV Question >> >> >>Hi, >> >>It depends on how you see the network. If you are >>refering to a network which has a CHAIN topology >>then >>the byte used for RREP and RREQ might be way >>insignificant. But when you refer to a well >>connected >>network then the byte seems sufficient. >> >>Rgds >>Jitesh >> >> --- Robert Cain wrote: > >>Connectivity is the number of other nodes each node >> >>>can reach with 1 hop. >>>Therefore a connectivity of 10 means there is 10 >>>nodes that a can reach >>>directly. Obviously in an actual network this >> >>would >> >>>vary from node to node. >>> >>> >>>Rob Cain :-) >>> >>> >>> >>>>What does the connectivity parameter specify? Is >>> >>>it saying in 100,000 >>>nodes only 10 nodes would be connected? >>> >>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>From: Robert Cain [mailto:tgm@ulfius.com] >>>>Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2003 11:13 AM >>>>To: DANIEL BYRNE >>>>Subject: Re: [manet] AODV Question >>>> >>>> >>>>1 byte seems OK to me. >>>> >>>>With some simple analysis assuming a circular >>> >>>homogeneous network of node >>> >>>>count K and a reasonable connectivity C then the >>> >>>radius of the network in >>> >>>>hops can be derived to be the square root of K/C. >>> >>>Which for a network size >>> >>>>of 100,000 and a connectivity of 10 gives a hop >>> >>>count radius of 100. >>>Seeing >>> >>>>as a network of size 100,000 will be probably at >>> >>>practical limits of size >>> >>>>due to performance degradation then I think 1 >> >>byte >> >>>may well be enough. >>> >>>>hope that helps :-) >>>> >>>>Rob Cain >>>> >>>> >>>>>if the >>>>> >>>>>"AODV routing protocol is designed for mobile ad >>> >>>hoc networks >>> >>>>> with populations of tens to thousands of >> >>mobile >> >>>nodes" >>> >>>>>why is the HopCount limited to only a BYTE? >> >>This >> >>>effectively limits the >>> >>>>number of hops to 255. Why not expand the hop >>> >>>count to two bytes into the >>> >>>>reseved region of the RREQ packet. Something >>> >>>similar could be done with >>> >>>>the RREP packet as well. >>>> >>>>> >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>manet mailing list >>>>>manet@ietf.org >>>>>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet >>>>> >>>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>manet mailing list >>>manet@ietf.org >>>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet >> >> > ________________________________________________________________________ > >>Yahoo! India Mobile: Download the latest polyphonic >>ringtones. >>Go to http://in.mobile.yahoo.com >> >>_______________________________________________ >>manet mailing list >>manet@ietf.org >>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Yahoo! India Mobile: Download the latest polyphonic ringtones. > Go to http://in.mobile.yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > manet mailing list > manet@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Nov 14 10:32:31 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA15830 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:32:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKfvi-0006u0-H6 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:32:16 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAEFWEen026531 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:32:14 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKfvi-0006tq-Ch for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:32:14 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA15795 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:31:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKfvf-00077o-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:32:12 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKfvf-00077l-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:32:11 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKfvV-0006pk-Tl; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:32:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKfvC-0006pQ-G8 for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:31:42 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA15773 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:31:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKfv9-00077M-00 for manet@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:31:40 -0500 Received: from laposte.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr ([192.44.77.17]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKfv8-00076k-00 for manet@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:31:39 -0500 Received: from givry.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr (givry.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr [193.52.74.194]) by laposte.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr (8.11.6p2/8.11.6/2003.04.01) with ESMTP id hAEFV3I22826; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 16:31:03 +0100 Received: from givry.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr (localhost.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr [127.0.0.1]) by givry.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id hAEFV3Sj031592; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 16:31:04 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from dupont@givry.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr) Message-Id: <200311141531.hAEFV3Sj031592@givry.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr> From: Francis Dupont To: Antti Tuominen cc: redouane , manet@ietf.org Subject: Re: [manet] AODV paquet In-reply-to: Your message of Fri, 14 Nov 2003 12:47:04 +0200. <20031114104700.GB9240@rhea.tcs.hut.fi> Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 16:31:03 +0100 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-milter (http://amavis.org/) at enst-bretagne.fr Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , In your previous mail you wrote: No, you can't send any other data in the AODV control message packet. UDP is a final protocol, and you can't put two final protocols in one packet. If you use something like the Hop-By-Hop flooding stuff, mentioned in AODV for IPv6 draft, you can have any final protocol in the packet. => yes, there must be at most one final protocol (the no-next-header is used when there is none). There also is (or was?) a draft about including more than one final protocol in one IP packet. => this draft was explicitly written to explain why it was (and still is) a very bad idea. Regards Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Nov 14 15:09:07 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA27151 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 15:09:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKkFO-0005DV-RP for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 15:08:51 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAEK8oGL020050 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 15:08:50 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKkFO-0005DJ-K8 for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 15:08:50 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA27083 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 15:08:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKkFL-0003bQ-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 15:08:47 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKkFL-0003bM-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 15:08:47 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKkEc-00055P-4t; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 15:08:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKkEM-00051s-Nw for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 15:07:46 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA26962 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 15:07:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKkEJ-0003aU-00 for manet@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 15:07:43 -0500 Received: from itc100.adtran.com ([66.0.238.100] helo=srv-exchange2.adtran.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKkEJ-0003aR-00 for manet@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 15:07:43 -0500 Received: by srv-exchange2.adtran.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 14:07:42 -0600 Message-ID: <39B01E2189D99F4B8C9612462DB3922A0CEBA954@srv-exchange.adtran.com> From: DANIEL BYRNE To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=27Erik_Nordstr=F6m=27?= Cc: manet@ulfius.com, manet@ietf.org Subject: RE: [manet] AODV Question Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 14:07:40 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , >I guess the point is not whether you would like to or not, but rather if >it is feasible with 255+ hops. And we did talk about AODV... Yes we did, but everyone here is now saying that AODV doesn't work well over 50 or more hops. >In the Internet I guess that an average hop count would be 20-30 hops >(with max around 60, correct me if I am wrong). So the Internet has 20-30 max hops right now. So what. The internet backbone is composed of very long expensive cables that someone has to pay for. The reason I started this thread was because that I was considering whether or not a radio multihop network could replace expensive long haul lines between routers. The theory is if you could replace long, expensive, fiber optic cable runs with wireless relay points that could double as routers, then potentially anyone could own and operate a long haul backbone. Obviously this is a topic for another thread. However, to divulge, if it could be made cheaper to pop down 200 wireless nodes in a chain configuration rather then lay fiber I believe there could be a large market for chain topology wireless networks. In which case I guess AODV would either have to be modified, replaced with a more capable routing protocol or something else yet undiscussed. I'm of course just theorizing right now. As far as bandwith is concerned, I know of one current product that delivers DS3 equivalent bandwidth over 25 miles. That is enough bandiwth to make 768 residential ADSL customers pretty happy. 255 of these in a row would give you a 6375 mile long broadband pipe, all without wires. That's long enough to extend from Juneau Alaska to Tampa Bay Forida. The extra hops would be used to service individual communities, or various corporate offices along the way. All with leasing a single DS3 line from Ma Bell. The only major stumbilng block I see in such a configuration is node latency. However, I don't think the AdHoc routing protocols should concern themselves with the speed of the devices that they run themselves on. We'd let the hardware designers figure that one out later. _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Nov 14 15:27:13 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA28317 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 15:27:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKkWt-0006Gg-HQ for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 15:26:56 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAEKQthJ024094 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 15:26:55 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKkWt-0006GW-C2 for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 15:26:55 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA28294 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 15:26:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKkWr-0003oJ-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 15:26:53 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKkWr-0003oG-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 15:26:53 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKkW1-00063s-20; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 15:26:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKkV8-0005rg-Eu for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 15:25:06 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA28253 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 15:24:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKkV7-0003mX-00 for manet@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 15:25:05 -0500 Received: from nestor.nmsu.edu ([128.123.34.146] helo=mail.nmsu.edu) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKkV5-0003mU-00 for manet@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 15:25:03 -0500 Received: from PCMullen2 (pc-mullen-2.NMSU.Edu [128.123.245.103]) by mail.nmsu.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6BDC7201D; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 13:25:03 -0700 (MST) From: "John Mullen" To: "'DANIEL BYRNE'" Cc: Subject: RE: [manet] AODV Question Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 13:25:03 -0700 Message-ID: <000401c3aaed$62979c20$67f57b80@IEngr.ad.nmsu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: <39B01E2189D99F4B8C9612462DB3922A0CEBA954@srv-exchange.adtran.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Daniel, Your idea has promise, especially in areas where right-of-way is a problem. However, it may not be necessary to use a MANET protocol. If the relay points are stationary and in a known relationship with one another, a more conventional routing protocol might work. In such a situation, routes could be very stable and the only thing each node would need to know is whether or not to re-broadcast after receiving a packet. That is, the routes could be embodied in routing tables with no need to imbed them in the packet headers. Also, there might be lower-cost alternatives. Where the right-of-way is established and infrastructure (e.g. poles) exists, fiber is relatively cheap. Remember that your 200 nodes will have to be maintained and will need a source of power. Also remember that bandwidth is much lower and signal strength much more variable in a wireless channel than a fiber one, so your terminals would have to be rather expensive to provide even a fraction of the capability of a fiber cable. In addition, a microwave link could be an option in some parts of the net. That is, even if you use wireless links for part of the backbone, you need may not actually use a MANET protocol and there are liable to be some long hops. John Mullen -----Original Message----- From: manet-admin@ietf.org [mailto:manet-admin@ietf.org] On Behalf Of DANIEL BYRNE Sent: Friday, November 14, 2003 1:08 PM To: 'Erik Nordstr=F6m' Cc: manet@ulfius.com; manet@ietf.org Subject: RE: [manet] AODV Question >I guess the point is not whether you would like to or not, but rather=20 >if it is feasible with 255+ hops. And we did talk about AODV... Yes we did, but everyone here is now saying that AODV doesn't work well over 50 or more hops. =20 >In the Internet I guess that an average hop count would be 20-30 hops=20 >(with max around 60, correct me if I am wrong). So the Internet has 20-30 max hops right now. So what. The internet backbone is composed of very long expensive cables that someone has to pay for. The reason I started this thread was because that I was considering whether or not a radio multihop network could replace expensive long haul lines between routers. The theory is if you could replace long, expensive, fiber optic cable runs with wireless relay points that could double as routers, then potentially anyone could own and operate a long haul backbone. Obviously this is a topic for another thread. However, to divulge, if it could be made cheaper to pop down 200 wireless nodes in a chain configuration rather then lay fiber I believe there could be a large market for chain topology wireless networks. In which case I guess AODV would either have to be modified, replaced with a more capable routing protocol or something else yet undiscussed. I'm of course just theorizing right now. As far as bandwith is concerned, I know of one current product that delivers DS3 equivalent bandwidth over 25 miles. That is enough bandiwth to make 768 residential ADSL customers pretty happy. 255 of these in a row would give you a 6375 mile long broadband pipe, all without wires. That's long enough to extend from Juneau Alaska to Tampa Bay Forida. The extra hops would be used to service individual communities, or various corporate offices along the way. All with leasing a single DS3 line from Ma Bell. The only major stumbilng block I see in such a configuration is node latency. However, I don't think the AdHoc routing protocols should concern themselves with the speed of the devices that they run themselves on. We'd let the hardware designers figure that one out later. _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Nov 14 15:39:28 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA28800 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 15:39:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKkhw-00075M-CR for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 15:38:20 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAEKcKUW027230 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 15:38:20 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKkhw-000757-8T for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 15:38:20 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA28746 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 15:38:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKkhu-000415-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 15:38:18 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKkhu-000412-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 15:38:18 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKkhd-0006xm-S4; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 15:38:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKkhP-0006u8-RS for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 15:37:47 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA28733 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 15:37:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKkhO-00040g-00 for manet@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 15:37:46 -0500 Received: from [208.61.208.100] (helo=srv-exchange1.adtran.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKkhN-00040W-00 for manet@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 15:37:45 -0500 Received: by srv-exchange1.adtran.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 14:37:01 -0600 Message-ID: <39B01E2189D99F4B8C9612462DB3922A0CEBA959@srv-exchange.adtran.com> From: DANIEL BYRNE To: "'John Mullen'" Cc: manet@ietf.org Subject: RE: [manet] AODV Question Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 14:37:03 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Good points, thanks. >Hi Daniel, >Your idea has promise, especially in areas where right-of-way is a >problem. However, it may not be necessary to use a MANET protocol. If >the relay points are stationary and in a known relationship with one >... _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Nov 14 20:22:30 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA08344 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 20:22:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKp8f-0002QO-3c for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 20:22:13 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAF1MDnI009314 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 20:22:13 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKp8e-0002Q9-Vu for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 20:22:13 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA08332 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 20:21:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKp8c-0007kE-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 20:22:10 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKp8c-0007k8-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 20:22:10 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKp8U-0002P5-5L; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 20:22:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKp7i-0002N1-Jm for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 20:21:14 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA08322 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 20:21:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKp7g-0007jo-00 for manet@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 20:21:12 -0500 Received: from lennier.cc.vt.edu ([198.82.162.213]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKp7f-0007jl-00 for manet@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 20:21:11 -0500 Received: from steiner.cc.vt.edu (IDENT:mirapoint@evil-steiner [10.1.1.14]) by lennier.cc.vt.edu (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hAF1LCK0042565; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 20:21:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from zathras (zathras.cc.vt.edu [198.82.162.117]) by steiner.cc.vt.edu (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.3.7-GR) with ESMTP id CAC39983; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 20:21:12 -0500 (EST) X-WebMail-UserID: bsvijay Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 20:21:12 -0500 From: Vijayanand Ballapuram To: manet@ietf.org, nhv@uiuc.edu, xueyang@uiuc.edu X-EXP32-SerialNo: 00002216 Message-ID: <3FC74408@zathras> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" X-Mailer: Infinite Mobile Delivery (Hydra) SMTP v3.62.01 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by lennier.cc.vt.edu id hAF1LCK0042565 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [manet] Priority Scheduling Paper - MobhiHoc 2002 Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Members and Authors, I am a graduate student at Virginia Tech and will present the paper =93Pr= iority=20 Scheduling in Wireless Adhoc Networks=94 from MobiHoc 2002 ( Xue Yang, Ni= tin=20 Vaidya) in our research group this Monday, Nov 17. I have following questions from the paper: 1) Section 4.3: Talks about Occupancy of data channel using black burst. I can=92t understand problem solved by implementing blackburst. =20 Paper explains the below reasons for implementing blackburst. =93During the channel access procedure described above, a station may transmit BT1 or BT2. However, the same sta- tion could be the receiver of a high priority packet for which an RTS may= be=20 transmitted while it is sending BT1 or BT2.Since a station cannot receive= =20 while it is transmitting, the high priority packet intended for this stat= ion=20 will be missed during its busy tone transmission. If the black burst are not received by stations sending BT2 what will hap= pen? If blackburst is not implemented, low priority stations will miss RTS fro= m=20 High priority stations while it is sending BT2. Since, CTS will not be se= nt,=20 high priority stations will send RTS again. 2) Want to know more understanding of Busy tone (BT1 and BT2) and blackbu= rst.. Busy tone =96 10 us , like a pulse. Need more infor about its properties? Blackburst =96 2 slot time. Is it a Pulse or other? Need more information. 3) Its is said in many places in the paper, the transmissions are deferre= d for=20 CTS timeout duration.? More information about this is required? What is t= he=20 advantage of deferring by exactly CTS timeout duration. 4)Need more explanation an information of Conflict graph shown in page 7. Thanks, Vijay _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Sat Nov 15 04:24:52 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA02098 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 04:24:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKwfP-0008Ts-7w for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 04:24:33 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAF9OVL9032600 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 04:24:31 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKwfO-0008Tj-N1 for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 04:24:30 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA02066 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 04:24:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKwfL-0005Gn-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 04:24:27 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKwfL-0005GU-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 04:24:27 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKwf3-0008Kp-EW; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 04:24:09 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKw6H-00063D-58 for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 03:48:13 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA01216 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 03:47:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKw6D-0004tn-00 for manet@ietf.org; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 03:48:09 -0500 Received: from mail11.ntu.edu.sg ([155.69.5.163]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKw6C-0004tW-00 for manet@ietf.org; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 03:48:08 -0500 Received: from mail01.student.main.ntu.edu.sg ([155.69.5.165]) by mail11.ntu.edu.sg with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5576); Sat, 15 Nov 2003 16:46:42 +0800 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C3AB54.FE095082" x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.6944.0 Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 16:46:41 +0800 Message-ID: <34C4FA35021357469685D8102806A1C06F84F2@mail01.student.main.ntu.edu.sg> Thread-Topic: When GPSR loops on the face? Thread-Index: AcOrVGVEGYjq75D+TVmUfDxFcCdcyA== From: "#ZHOU ZHI#" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Nov 2003 08:46:42.0340 (UTC) FILETIME=[FDFE2640:01C3AB54] Subject: [manet] When GPSR loops on the face? Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C3AB54.FE095082 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 Hi all, =20 Can anybody give me an example where GPSR will receive the packet in perimeter mode for the second time? that means that the packet got looped on the current face traversing. =20 thanks! =20 Zhou Zhi (Mr.) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Ph.D. student, CeMNeT, SCE Nanyang Technological University - Home Address: Jurong West St 74, Blk 755, #11-56, Singapore 640755 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ =20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C3AB54.FE095082 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi=20 all,
 
Can anybody give me an=20 example where GPSR will receive the packet in perimeter mode for the = second=20 time? that means that the packet got looped on the current face=20 traversing.
 
thanks!
 
Zhou = Zhi=20 (Mr.)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<= BR>Ph.D. student, CeMNeT, = SCE
Nanyang Technological = University
- Home=20 Address:
Jurong = West St 74,=20 Blk 755, #11-56, Singapore 640755
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 

------_=_NextPart_001_01C3AB54.FE095082-- _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Sat Nov 15 23:23:39 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA03644 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 23:23:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALERV-0003P2-D0 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 23:23:21 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAG4NLVc013077 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 23:23:21 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALERV-0003Oq-6R for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 23:23:21 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA03626 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 23:23:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALERT-0004Nb-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 23:23:19 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALERS-0004NX-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 23:23:18 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALERB-0003NO-NI; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 23:23:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALEQw-0003Mk-C8 for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 23:22:46 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA03592 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 23:22:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALEQu-0004Md-00 for manet@ietf.org; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 23:22:44 -0500 Received: from mbox1.ntu.edu.sg ([155.69.5.171]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALEQt-0004M3-00 for manet@ietf.org; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 23:22:43 -0500 Received: from mail01.student.main.ntu.edu.sg ([155.69.5.165]) by mbox1.ntu.edu.sg with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5576); Sun, 16 Nov 2003 12:22:12 +0800 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.6944.0 Subject: RE: [manet] When GPSR loops on the face? Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 12:22:12 +0800 Message-ID: <34C4FA35021357469685D8102806A1C06F8505@mail01.student.main.ntu.edu.sg> Thread-Topic: [manet] When GPSR loops on the face? Thread-Index: AcOr7hnmB/7VCSjbTg6h2vFrlln0AgAAmHEg From: "#ZHOU ZHI#" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Nov 2003 04:22:12.0787 (UTC) FILETIME=[356A4830:01C3ABF9] Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 Hi Casey, Thanks for your example. Can I get the following conclusion: 1) If the source and destination are not partitioned, GPSR will also find the route.=20 2) If the source and destination are partitioned, GPSR will lead the packet to travel around the whole perimeter of the source partition. And finally the packet will reach the node where it entered perimeter mode. 3) no matter whether source and destination are partioned or not, it is possible that the packet travels back to the node where enters perimeter mode and the source, but without being dropped. If so, from my second conclusion, the traversing loop in GPSR only occurs in exterior face, doesn't it? Furthermore, I think the worst situation for GPSR is like the following figure. Node x is where the packet from S enteres perimeter mode. If the S section is almost the whole network, the packet will almost travel the whole perimeter of the network to reach D. _________ | D | |_______ | _______| |_____________________ ... ... | x =20 | S | | | |______________________________ ... ... -----Original Message----- From: Casey Carter [mailto:ccarter@cs.uiuc.edu]=20 Sent: 2003?11?16? 10:47 To: #ZHOU ZHI# Subject: Re: [manet] When GPSR loops on the face? Here's an easy one: The network is partitioned into two connected components, with the source in one partition, and the destination in another. The packet will traverse the convex hull of the source's partition. #ZHOU ZHI# wrote: > Hi all, > Can anybody give me an example where GPSR will receive the packet in=20 > perimeter mode for the second time? that means that the packet got=20 > looped on the current face traversing. > thanks! > Zhou Zhi (Mr.) > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Ph.D. student, CeMNeT, SCE > Nanyang Technological University > - Home Address: > Jurong West St 74, Blk 755, #11-56, Singapore 640755=20 > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -- Casey Carter Casey@Carter.net ccarter@cs.uiuc.edu AIM: cartec69 _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Sun Nov 16 12:44:27 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA02591 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 12:44:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALQwU-0007ZZ-6M for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 12:44:10 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAGHiAV8029105 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 12:44:10 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALQwT-0007ZL-PX for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 12:44:09 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA02581 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 12:43:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALQwS-0007a3-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 12:44:08 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALQwR-0007a0-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 12:44:07 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALQwL-0007YJ-9f; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 12:44:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALQvU-0007XC-AO for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 12:43:08 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA02551 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 12:42:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALQvS-0007Zc-00 for manet@ietf.org; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 12:43:06 -0500 Received: from pollen.cs.concordia.ca ([132.205.44.61] ident=root) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALQvS-0007ZZ-00 for manet@ietf.org; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 12:43:06 -0500 Received: from cs.concordia.ca (minerva [132.205.66.146]) by pollen.cs.concordia.ca (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAGHh1gD003660 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 12:43:01 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3FB7B655.2060201@cs.concordia.ca> Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 12:39:33 -0500 From: Anup Patnaik User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20030225 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: manet@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [manet] GPSR Security Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Continuing with GPSR, can anyone point me to some work in the area of securing GPSR or other geographic position based routing protocols. It so appears that these protocols being stateless and not involving exchange of any (or very few) control packets are more robust (from a security perspective) as compared to the other on-demand and proactive ones (correct me if im wrong). Anup ------------------------------ Ph.D. student Computer Science Dept. Concordia University Montreal, Canada ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Sun Nov 16 13:03:30 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA02915 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 13:03:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALREt-0008AI-M6 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 13:03:13 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAGI3BIC031384 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 13:03:11 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALREt-0008A7-J5 for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 13:03:11 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA02903 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 13:02:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALREr-0007nq-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 13:03:09 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALREr-0007nn-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 13:03:09 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALREj-000864-Oi; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 13:03:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALRE8-00085g-KQ for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 13:02:26 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA02885 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 13:02:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALRE6-0007nR-00 for manet@ietf.org; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 13:02:22 -0500 Received: from h001.c000.snv.cp.net ([209.228.32.65] helo=c000.snv.cp.net) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALRE6-0007nH-00 for manet@ietf.org; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 13:02:22 -0500 Received: (cpmta 10387 invoked from network); 16 Nov 2003 10:02:15 -0800 Received: from 12.221.64.39 (HELO cs.uiuc.edu) by smtp.carter.net (209.228.32.65) with SMTP; 16 Nov 2003 10:02:15 -0800 X-Sent: 16 Nov 2003 18:02:15 GMT Message-ID: <3FB7BB4A.4000500@cs.uiuc.edu> Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 12:00:42 -0600 From: Casey Carter User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20030225 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: #ZHOU ZHI# CC: manet@ietf.org Subject: Re: [manet] When GPSR loops on the face? References: <34C4FA35021357469685D8102806A1C06F8505@mail01.student.main.ntu.edu.sg> In-Reply-To: <34C4FA35021357469685D8102806A1C06F8505@mail01.student.main.ntu.edu.sg> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit #ZHOU ZHI# wrote: > >Hi Casey, > >Thanks for your example. > >Can I get the following conclusion: >1) If the source and destination are not partitioned, GPSR will also >find the route. > Yes: if there is a route, GPSR will find it. >2) If the source and destination are partitioned, GPSR will lead the >packet to travel around the whole perimeter of the source partition. And >finally the packet will reach the node where it entered perimeter mode. > > Yes: Completing a loop in perimeter mode -- returning to the node where you started without ever leaving perimeter mode -- proves that the network is partitioned. >3) no matter whether source and destination are partioned or not, it is >possible that the packet travels back to the node where enters perimeter >mode and the source, but without being dropped. > > For the source, yes this is true. For the node where it entered perimeter mode, the packet will be dropped upon returning unless there was a period of greedy mode routing between the two visits. >If so, from my second conclusion, the traversing loop in GPSR only >occurs in exterior face, doesn't it? > > Yes: GPSR switches from one face to the next when when it finds an edge of the face that is cut by the line connecting the source and destination. Also, it leaves perimeter mode and returns to greedy mode when it finds a node that is closer to the destination than the node where it entered perimeter mode. >Furthermore, I think the worst situation for GPSR is like the following >figure. Node x is where the packet from S enteres perimeter mode. If the >S section is almost the whole network, the packet will almost travel the >whole perimeter of the network to reach D. >_________ >| D | >|_______ | >_______| |_____________________ ... ... >| x >| S >| >| >| >|______________________________ ... ... > > This is an O(n) delivery -- the worst case is O(n^2). The intuiton behind the worst case is to layout the network so that perimeter mode traverses nearly the whole thing before finding a node a bit closer. Switching to greedy mode gets you a hop closer, at which point you need to go back to perimeter mode, and traverse the same path again, but go a couple of steps farther than last time to find a node a bit closer. Lather, rinse repeat ;) There is a beatiful diagram of such a worst case network, and a lot of interesting discussion of geo-routing, in "Worst-Case Optimal and Average-Case Efficient Geometric Ad-Hoc Routing," Fabian Kuhn et al, MobiHoc 2003. > >-----Original Message----- >From: Casey Carter [mailto:ccarter@cs.uiuc.edu] >Sent: 2003?11?16? 10:47 >To: #ZHOU ZHI# >Subject: Re: [manet] When GPSR loops on the face? > >Here's an easy one: The network is partitioned into two connected >components, with the source in one partition, and the destination in >another. The packet will traverse the convex hull of the source's >partition. > >#ZHOU ZHI# wrote: > > > >>Hi all, >>Can anybody give me an example where GPSR will receive the packet in >>perimeter mode for the second time? that means that the packet got >>looped on the current face traversing. >>thanks! >>Zhou Zhi (Mr.) >>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>Ph.D. student, CeMNeT, SCE >>Nanyang Technological University >>- Home Address: >>Jurong West St 74, Blk 755, #11-56, Singapore 640755 >>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> >> > > > >-- >Casey Carter >Casey@Carter.net >ccarter@cs.uiuc.edu >AIM: cartec69 > > > >_______________________________________________ >manet mailing list >manet@ietf.org >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet > > -- Casey Carter Casey@Carter.net ccarter@cs.uiuc.edu AIM: cartec69 _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Sun Nov 16 22:18:29 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA16555 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 22:18:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALZtz-0001FN-IE for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 22:18:12 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAH3IBAE004789 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 22:18:11 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALZtz-0001FA-FF for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 22:18:11 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA16535 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 22:17:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALZtw-0007a2-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 22:18:08 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALZtv-0007Zz-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 22:18:07 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALZtp-0001Du-7a; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 22:18:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALZtn-0001DX-Kw for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 22:17:59 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA16524 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 22:17:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALZtk-0007Zk-00 for manet@ietf.org; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 22:17:56 -0500 Received: from goose.mail.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.120.18]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALZtj-0007Zh-00 for manet@ietf.org; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 22:17:56 -0500 Received: from user-2ivfk32.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.247.208.98] helo=erg.sri.com) by goose.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1ALZtj-0004pO-00 for manet@ietf.org; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 19:17:55 -0800 Message-ID: <3FB83DE0.5040904@erg.sri.com> Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 19:17:52 -0800 From: Richard Ogier User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011128 Netscape6/6.2.1 (emach0202) X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: manet@ietf.org Subject: Re: [manet] OSPF extensions for manets Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="------------040102020207090906020408" Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , --------------040102020207090906020408 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Philippe,

Dear Richard,

I don't think there is any conceptual conflict between MPR, CDS and
overlapping relays. To be short MPR is a practical implementation of CDS.

A CDS is also a practical implementation of a CDS.   ;-)

Since it is now mature enough, it is proposed in a draft for a wireless
extension of OSPF.

I think CDS is also mature enough.  Also, it is simpler, and allows the OSPF
Hello to be used without changing its format (as has been discussed).
For those who attended the meeting last Thursday, Fred Baker recommended
using "overlapping relays", which is the same as a CDS.  (The main difference
between an overlapping relay and an MPR is that the former forwards all LSAs
originating from the same area, whereas the latter forwards only LSAs that
were received from an MPR selector.)

MPRs contain nice features that have been added by the
working group during the past years such as "willingness to forward"

The same idea has been applied to CDS nodes, and in OSPF this
would just be the "router priority". 

parameter, adaptability to link qualities, possibility of drastic reduction
of advertized link set size, etc.

The purpose of the CDS is to optimize the flooding, not to reduce the
set of advertised links. I agree that MPRs are useful for
reducing the set of advertised links. But this problem can be separated
from the flooding problem, and there are other ways to reduce the set
of advertised links (including self-selected MPRs).  
I think the primary goal is to extend OSPF within minimal changes
to support manets, and a CDS seems to be the simplest way to
achieve this goal. A method for reducing the set of advertised links
can be proposed as an optional extension.

However they are certainly not yet
absolutely optimal, since optimal CDS selection is an NP hard problem. If
you give me a polynomial algorithm that select a good CDS, I will find
another polynomial algorithm that select a better CDS;-)  However, MPRs have
shown acceptable performance so far that we did not find practical
algorithms that significantly outperform it.

As you know, given the set of MPRs that forward a given LSA, that set plus
the originator is a CDS.  Thus, there always exists a CDS that requires
only one more transmission than if MPRs are used.  The converse it not true.
In fact, I can easily find an example where an optimal MPR selection results
in 3 times as many transmissions as an optimal CDS selection.
But this is not as important as the other reasons for using a CDS
(simplicity and being able to use the OSPF Hello without changing
its format).

Regards,
Richard



Best regards,
Philippe



--------------040102020207090906020408-- _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 17 02:18:40 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA03528 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 02:18:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALdeQ-0002Fg-5o for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 02:18:22 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAH7IMNp008645 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 02:18:22 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALdeO-0002FM-Ov for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 02:18:20 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA03474 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 02:18:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALdeK-0002VM-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 02:18:16 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALdeK-0002VI-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 02:18:16 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALde6-0002Do-Oo; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 02:18:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALddT-00029p-1m for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 02:17:23 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA03385 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 02:17:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALddP-0002V2-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 02:17:19 -0500 Received: from web12903.mail.yahoo.com ([216.136.174.70]) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALddO-0002Uz-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 02:17:18 -0500 Message-ID: <20031117071719.85944.qmail@web12903.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [195.219.174.3] by web12903.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 23:17:19 PST Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 23:17:19 -0800 (PST) From: sohrab niazi To: manet@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1799235943-1069053439=:80463" Subject: [manet] i need Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , --0-1799235943-1069053439=:80463 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii sir, i am the new in this, so i want to know about the history of manet at this stage? bye --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard --0-1799235943-1069053439=:80463 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
sir, i am the new in this, so i want to know about the history of manet at this stage?
bye
 

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Mail AddressGuard --0-1799235943-1069053439=:80463-- _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 17 02:37:41 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA04463 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 02:37:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALdwi-0003WA-7z for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 02:37:23 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAH7bF49013521 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 02:37:15 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALdwf-0003U6-Ao for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 02:37:13 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA04425 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 02:37:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALdwb-0002tr-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 02:37:09 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALdwb-0002to-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 02:37:09 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALdwU-0003Ne-7M; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 02:37:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALdvv-0003MT-Mg for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 02:36:28 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA04402 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 02:36:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALdvp-0002sr-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 02:36:21 -0500 Received: from cms4.etri.re.kr ([129.254.16.14] helo=cms4.cms.etri.re.kr) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALdvp-0002sV-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 02:36:21 -0500 Received: from jafywinxp (pd412h.etri.re.kr [129.254.112.174]) by cms4.cms.etri.re.kr with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2657.72) id W8W68B7W; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 16:31:28 +0900 Reply-To: From: "HyunWook Cha" To: "'Christophe Jelger'" , "'manet'" Cc: Subject: RE: [manet] Comment on manet gateway autoconf draft. Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 16:35:45 +0900 Message-ID: <000201c3acdd$6961e8c0$ae70fe81@jafywinxp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <3FB49243.8090603@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, Christophe. I think that I am understanding your idea well enough. As you know from my previous comments (http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/working-groups/manet/current/msg03221. html, http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/working-groups/manet/current/msg03176.h tml), I can not agree that it works efficiently when multiple gateways are available and the topology of a manet is changed frequently. More specifically, I can not expect that your idea can maximize prefix stability though you insist that (I told the reason at my first comment). Have you ever simulated your idea using NS-2 or whatever? The second performance issue is caused by inconsistency between default route established by your idea and routing protocols (This was already mentioned, too). This can affect the performance of your idea in terms of end-to-end delay. This issue also requires that your idea and the scheme using routing header should be compared through simulations. You think that we can not address the prefix stability and optimality of route at the same time. Why do not you use a routing header? (I want to avoid redendant explanation,) Whether multiple addresses(prefixes) can be configured and used or not, the use of routign header can maximize the stability of current prefix and make use of an obtimal route for the current gateway discovered by routing protocols (if we can say that a route is "obtimal" when it is established through a routing protocol.). Uhm.... I do not know when this area (internet connectivity) was issued for the first time, what the current consensus of the whole working roup about this subject and when this subject will be discussed more actively. Actually, any other issues except routing protocols including ospf extension were not addressed.(Am I right?) However, I believe that this issue can support deployment of manet technologies. Will you come at Seoul meeting (59th one)? If so, we can share further thoughts each other. Regards, HyunWook Cha > -----Original Message----- > From: Christophe Jelger [mailto:jelger@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr] > Sent: Friday, November 14, 2003 5:29 PM > To: 'manet' > Cc: autonet@ipv6.or.kr > Subject: Re: [manet] Comment on manet gateway autoconf draft. > > > > Hi again, > > Well actually I don't agree with your statement when you say > that prefix > continuity can be harmful ... harmful to what ? Moreover I > also disagree > when you say "bad performance" as I don't think prefix > continuity would > lead to bad peformance, I mean in terms of packet delay for > example. In > contrast I agree that if we want to maximize prefix stability then > routing might be sub-optimal. Again if we don't care about prefix > stability (prefix continuity is inherent to the protocol), > then routing > would be optimal (a node finds the closest gateway), and > transport layer > sessions can be maintained with MIPv6. > > Actually I think it is good to have different > solutions/proposals, they > can be compared and if implementations are available one can > choose one > or another. Well I don't really know if this address > autoconfiguration > stuff is being discussed at the IETF meeting (I could not go > there), but > if it does not become a MANET objective we won't have to bother about > finding the best solution. > > Regards, > Christophe > _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 17 09:39:32 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA12897 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 09:39:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALkX4-00011H-J7 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 09:39:14 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAHEdEHn003915 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 09:39:14 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALkX4-000114-F4 for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 09:39:14 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA12886 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 09:39:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALkX2-0007Cv-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 09:39:12 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALkX2-0007Cs-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 09:39:12 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALkWr-0000zy-9B; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 09:39:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALkWl-0000zl-KB for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 09:38:55 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA12883 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 09:38:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALkWj-0007Cl-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 09:38:53 -0500 Received: from primary.vmtllc.com ([65.111.95.2]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALkWj-0007Ci-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 09:38:53 -0500 Received: from Mercury (h-64-105-208-118.MCLNVA23.dynamic.covad.net [64.105.208.118]) by primary.vmtllc.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id hAHEcpe25191; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 09:38:51 -0500 From: "David Holmer" To: "'Carmelo Ragusa'" Cc: Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 09:38:48 -0500 Organization: Johns Hopkins University Message-ID: <002701c3ad18$86213750$0300a8c0@Mercury> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-reply-to: <3780.131.227.89.158.1069061415.squirrel@secure.eps.surrey.ac.uk> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [manet] RE: [ns] routing costs in ad-hoc routing Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In wireless ad hoc networks there are no "link" objects because links are implicit between nodes that are less than a threshold distance away. I haven't looked at AODV, but I know from personal experience in the past that DSDV was not designed for non-hop based metrics and requires tweaking to make it work properly. My intuition is that AODV would require even more modifications to do the same. Also you'd have to design your on method of setting link weights in these protocols as there isn't one currently (only hop based metrics are supported). It is possible that some of the more advanced link-state protocols, such as TBRPF or OLSR, might be different and may included the type of capability you are looking for. - David Holmer -----Original Message----- From: ns-users-admin@ISI.EDU [mailto:ns-users-admin@ISI.EDU] On Behalf Of Carmelo Ragusa Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 4:30 AM To: ns-users@ISI.EDU Subject: [ns] routing costs in ad-hoc routing Dear all, I sent an email few days ago, but I didn't receive any answer. I would appreciate if somebody can give some direction. Following, there is my previous email. Many thatnks in advance, regards, Carmelo Dear all, I need to know how I can access routing costs for ad-hoc routing such as DSDV or AODV. I've been doing it for wired networks using the command: [[Simulator instance] link %n1 %n2] cost? but I couldn't find anything similar for ad-hoc routing. There is anybody that can help me? Any hint or direction will be appreciated. Many thanks in advance, Carmelo _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 17 10:16:40 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA14928 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 10:16:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALl6z-0002dc-Bb for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 10:16:23 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAHFGLAP010141 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 10:16:21 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALl6y-0002dU-Sk for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 10:16:20 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA14865 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 10:16:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALl6w-0007b4-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 10:16:18 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALl6w-0007b1-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 10:16:18 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALl6g-0002Vt-Cp; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 10:16:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALl6I-0002Ut-44 for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 10:15:38 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA14777 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 10:15:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALl6F-0007YQ-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 10:15:35 -0500 Received: from nestor.nmsu.edu ([128.123.34.146] helo=mail.nmsu.edu) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALl6E-0007YN-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 10:15:34 -0500 Received: from PCMullen2 (pc-mullen-2.NMSU.Edu [128.123.245.103]) by mail.nmsu.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FE562005; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 08:15:32 -0700 (MST) From: "John Mullen" To: "'sohrab niazi'" , Subject: RE: [manet] i need Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 08:15:36 -0700 Message-ID: <002a01c3ad1d$a6d0e270$67f57b80@IEngr.ad.nmsu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002B_01C3ACE2.FA720A70" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <20031117071719.85944.qmail@web12903.mail.yahoo.com> Importance: Normal Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01C3ACE2.FA720A70 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Here is a place to start. http://w3.antd.nist.gov/wctg/manet/manet_bibliog.html John Mullen -----Original Message----- From: manet-admin@ietf.org [mailto:manet-admin@ietf.org] On Behalf Of sohrab niazi Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 12:17 AM To: manet@ietf.org Subject: [manet] i need sir, i am the new in this, so i want to know about the history of manet at this stage? bye _____ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01C3ACE2.FA720A70 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message
Hi,
 
Here=20 is a place to start.
 
http://w3.= antd.nist.gov/wctg/manet/manet_bibliog.html
 
John=20 Mullen
-----Original Message-----
From:=20 manet-admin@ietf.org [mailto:manet-admin@ietf.org] On Behalf Of = sohrab=20 niazi
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 12:17 AM
To: = manet@ietf.org
Subject: [manet] i need

sir, i am the new in this, so i want to know about the history of = manet=20 at this stage?
bye
 

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------=_NextPart_000_002B_01C3ACE2.FA720A70-- _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 17 10:29:38 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA15783 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 10:29:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALlJX-0004GC-A5 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 10:29:21 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAHFTJo1016366 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 10:29:19 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALlJW-0004Fs-SE for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 10:29:18 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA15714 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 10:29:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALlJU-00001p-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 10:29:16 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALlJU-00001g-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 10:29:16 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALlJG-00048h-Kf; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 10:29:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALlIc-00047Z-GX for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 10:28:27 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA15656 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 10:28:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALlIa-00000p-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 10:28:20 -0500 Received: from darkstar.iprg.nokia.com ([205.226.5.69]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALlIZ-0007nb-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 10:28:19 -0500 Received: (from root@localhost) by darkstar.iprg.nokia.com (8.11.0/8.11.0-DARKSTAR) id hAHFRTn05497; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 07:27:29 -0800 X-mProtect: <200311171527> Nokia Silicon Valley Messaging Protection Received: from charliep.iprg.nokia.com (205.226.2.89, claiming to be "iprg.nokia.com") by darkstar.iprg.nokia.com smtpdzp5vTc; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 07:27:28 PST Message-ID: <3FB8E8D6.A5FB19B2@iprg.nokia.com> Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 07:27:18 -0800 From: "Charles E. Perkins" Organization: Nokia Research Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.4-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: DANIEL BYRNE CC: "'Erik =?iso-8859-1?Q?Nordstr=F6m=27?=" , manet@ulfius.com, manet@ietf.org Subject: Re: [manet] AODV Question References: <39B01E2189D99F4B8C9612462DB3922A0CEBA954@srv-exchange.adtran.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello folks, One or two comments below: DANIEL BYRNE wrote: > Yes we did, but everyone here is now saying that AODV doesn't work well > over 50 or more hops. I can believe that the performance would suffer greatly, depending on the mobility of the intermediate nodes. If the nodes didn't move, then I wonder what would go wrong? Regarding the idea about replacing land lines, I guess that any routing protocol would work, even manual configuration. To overcome the hop limit, you could do encapsulations. It doesn't seem to be a close match for the technology provided for use with mobile ad hoc networks since: 1) the nodes aren't mobile, and 2) the network isn't ad hoc. Regards, Charlie P. _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 17 11:09:00 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA18286 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 11:09:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALlvf-0006kQ-JJ for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 11:08:43 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAHG8hFo025916 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 11:08:43 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALlvf-0006ju-0C for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 11:08:43 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA18214 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 11:08:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALlvb-0000ik-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 11:08:39 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALlvb-0000iV-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 11:08:39 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALlv1-0006Ts-Es; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 11:08:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALluH-0006Ga-FW for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 11:07:17 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA18014 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 11:07:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALluE-0000i4-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 11:07:14 -0500 Received: from nestor.nmsu.edu ([128.123.34.146] helo=mail.nmsu.edu) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALluE-0000i1-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 11:07:14 -0500 Received: from PCMullen2 (pc-mullen-2.NMSU.Edu [128.123.245.103]) by mail.nmsu.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DBC52007; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 09:07:12 -0700 (MST) From: "John Mullen" To: , Subject: RE: [manet] AODV Question Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 09:07:11 -0700 Message-ID: <000001c3ad24$dc11ae40$67f57b80@IEngr.ad.nmsu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <3FB8E8D6.A5FB19B2@iprg.nokia.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Charlie, Well, I can see one application of MANET technology in a situation in which the nodes do not move. Consider the Dine' (Navajo) nation which covers thousands of square miles in the southwestern US. Connecting the many isolated communities with wire or fiber does not seem to be an option. Furthermore, the Dine' would prefer not to use the ideal places for antennas because of religious and other reasons. Every time you dig a hole on the reservation, you need an archeologist. Other American Indian jurisdictions are checkerboarded. That is, there are parcels of fee simple land owned by non-members of the Tribe interspersed throughout the area. In those cases, right of way is a big problem. It is not just that putting up telephone poles is a problem, but also that a common electrical supply is often not available. That is, any repeaters would have to be self-powered. Now, imagine a network of nodes that are powered by batteries, which in turn, are recharged by solar energy. Also, assume the net is dense enough that many nodes can go to standby while the others take the load. However, as the evening wears on, the active nodes, one by one, will have to shut down due to low power. Others could, at any time, have to shut down due to malfunctions (we a talking of many nodes in a very hostile environment). As each does so, one or more inactive nodes wakes up to take the load. Such a net would have no mobile nodes, but would require frequent automatic reconfiguration. It wouldn't be entirely a MANET, since each node could know where every other node was, but would require a degree of automatic reconfiguration that ordinary protocols would not support due to the frequent changes in the pattern of available nodes. I would think that at least part of a MANET protocol would be helpful. Also, if such a protocol were to be used, mobile nodes could be more easily accommodated as they move throughout the communications area. Just a thought. John Mullen -----Original Message----- From: manet-admin@ietf.org [mailto:manet-admin@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Charles E. Perkins Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 8:27 AM To: DANIEL BYRNE Cc: 'Erik Nordstr=F6m'; manet@ulfius.com; manet@ietf.org Subject: Re: [manet] AODV Question Hello folks, One or two comments below: DANIEL BYRNE wrote: > Yes we did, but everyone here is now saying that AODV doesn't work=20 > well over 50 or more hops. I can believe that the performance would suffer greatly, depending on the mobility of the intermediate nodes. If the nodes didn't move, then I wonder what would go wrong? Regarding the idea about replacing land lines, I guess that any routing protocol would work, even manual configuration. To overcome the=20 hop limit, you could do encapsulations. It doesn't seem to be a close match for the technology provided for use with mobile ad hoc networks since: 1) the nodes aren't mobile, and 2) the network isn't ad hoc. Regards, Charlie P. _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 17 11:24:40 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA18810 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 11:24:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALmAl-0007fB-GC for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 11:24:21 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAHGOJxr029457 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 11:24:19 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALmAl-0007f2-3J for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 11:24:19 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA18799 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 11:24:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALmAk-0000xA-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 11:24:18 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALmAY-0000x3-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 11:24:06 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALmAT-0007Y5-ML; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 11:24:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALm9o-0007XG-AJ for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 11:23:20 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA18773 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 11:23:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALm9n-0000wN-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 11:23:19 -0500 Received: from blv-smtpout-01.boeing.com ([130.76.32.69]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALm9m-0000wK-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 11:23:18 -0500 Received: from blv-av-01.boeing.com ([192.42.227.216]) by blv-smtpout-01.boeing.com (8.9.2.MG.10092003/8.8.5-M2) with ESMTP id IAA09495; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 08:23:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from stl-hub-01.boeing.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by blv-av-01.boeing.com (8.9.3/8.9.2/MBS-AV-02) with ESMTP id IAA29744; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 08:23:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from xch-nebh-01.ne.nos.boeing.com (xch-nebh-01.ne.nos.boeing.com [128.225.80.200]) by stl-hub-01.boeing.com (8.11.3/8.11.3/MBS-LDAP-01) with ESMTP id hAHGMLk10482; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 10:22:21 -0600 (CST) Received: from XCH-NE-02.ne.nos.boeing.com ([128.225.80.202]) by xch-nebh-01.ne.nos.boeing.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6662); Mon, 17 Nov 2003 11:22:20 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [manet] AODV Question Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 11:22:21 -0500 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [manet] AODV Question Thread-Index: AcOtJVZG6HuPm1uGR5C+L7kE+wKfRQAAG94g From: "Manfredi, Albert E" To: "John Mullen" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Nov 2003 16:22:20.0037 (UTC) FILETIME=[F95B2B50:01C3AD26] Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi John, Seems to me that what you describe ought to work just fine with any IGP. = Wired networks also have routers that go up and down, after all. I think this is only a matter of degree. If the infrastructure is not = meant to be ad hoc, i.e. the density of nodes that behave as routers is = roughly what it needs to be to provide reliable connectivity, such that = flooding of hello messages will not overwhelm an overly dense set of = routers, then you don't need to rely one special enhancements of = standard IGPs. All you're describing, I think, is a typical internet in which routers = happen to have RF links? Bert > -----Original Message----- > From: John Mullen [mailto:jomullen@nmsu.edu] > Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 11:07 AM > To: manet@ulfius.com; manet@ietf.org > Subject: RE: [manet] AODV Question >=20 >=20 > Hi Charlie, >=20 > Well, I can see one application of MANET technology in a situation in > which the nodes do not move. Consider the Dine' (Navajo) nation which > covers thousands of square miles in the southwestern US. =20 > Connecting the > many isolated communities with wire or fiber does not seem to be an > option. Furthermore, the Dine' would prefer not to use the=20 > ideal places > for antennas because of religious and other reasons. Every=20 > time you dig > a hole on the reservation, you need an archeologist. Other American > Indian jurisdictions are checkerboarded. That is, there are=20 > parcels of > fee simple land owned by non-members of the Tribe interspersed > throughout the area. In those cases, right of way is a big problem. >=20 > It is not just that putting up telephone poles is a problem, but also > that a common electrical supply is often not available. That is, any > repeaters would have to be self-powered. >=20 > Now, imagine a network of nodes that are powered by=20 > batteries, which in > turn, are recharged by solar energy. Also, assume the net is dense > enough that many nodes can go to standby while the others=20 > take the load. > However, as the evening wears on, the active nodes, one by one, will > have to shut down due to low power. Others could, at any=20 > time, have to > shut down due to malfunctions (we a talking of many nodes in a very > hostile environment). As each does so, one or more inactive=20 > nodes wakes > up to take the load. >=20 > Such a net would have no mobile nodes, but would require frequent > automatic reconfiguration. It wouldn't be entirely a MANET,=20 > since each > node could know where every other node was, but would require a degree > of automatic reconfiguration that ordinary protocols would not support > due to the frequent changes in the pattern of available=20 > nodes. I would > think that at least part of a MANET protocol would be=20 > helpful. Also, if > such a protocol were to be used, mobile nodes could be more easily > accommodated as they move throughout the communications area. >=20 > Just a thought. >=20 > John Mullen >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: manet-admin@ietf.org [mailto:manet-admin@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > Charles E. Perkins > Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 8:27 AM > To: DANIEL BYRNE > Cc: 'Erik Nordstr=F6m'; manet@ulfius.com; manet@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [manet] AODV Question >=20 >=20 >=20 > Hello folks, >=20 > One or two comments below: >=20 > DANIEL BYRNE wrote: >=20 > > Yes we did, but everyone here is now saying that AODV doesn't work=20 > > well over 50 or more hops. >=20 > I can believe that the performance would suffer > greatly, depending on the mobility of the intermediate > nodes. If the nodes didn't move, then I wonder what > would go wrong? >=20 > Regarding the idea about replacing land lines, > I guess that any routing protocol would work, > even manual configuration. To overcome the=20 > hop limit, you could do encapsulations. >=20 > It doesn't seem to be a close match for the > technology provided for use with mobile ad > hoc networks since: > 1) the nodes aren't mobile, and > 2) the network isn't ad hoc. >=20 > Regards, > Charlie P. >=20 > _______________________________________________ > manet mailing list > manet@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > manet mailing list > manet@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet >=20 _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 17 13:05:32 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA25744 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 13:05:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALnkQ-0003qj-Oa for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 13:05:15 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAHI5EOr014796 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 13:05:14 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALnkQ-0003qZ-KR for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 13:05:14 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA25733 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 13:05:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALnkO-0003RK-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 13:05:12 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALnkO-0003RH-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 13:05:12 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALnkE-0003pR-3g; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 13:05:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALnjl-0003of-7Y for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 13:04:33 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA25719 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 13:04:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALnjj-0003R1-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 13:04:31 -0500 Received: from 66-152-29-4.ded.btitelecom.net ([66.152.29.4] helo=mail.scires.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALnji-0003QZ-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 13:04:30 -0500 Received: from SRCATL-MTA by mail.scires.com with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 13:02:50 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.3 Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 13:02:12 -0500 From: "Pete Sholander" To: , , Subject: RE: [manet] AODV Question Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable IMHO ... John's application is why simple QoS metrics (e.g, "node energy = status" or "link stability") might should be included in the next round of = MANET WG proposals. Similar problems exist in military sensor networks. --Pete Sholander Atlanta, GA >>> "Manfredi, Albert E" 11/17/03 11:22AM = >>> Hi John, Seems to me that what you describe ought to work just fine with any IGP. = Wired networks also have routers that go up and down, after all. I think this is only a matter of degree. If the infrastructure is not = meant to be ad hoc, i.e. the density of nodes that behave as routers is = roughly what it needs to be to provide reliable connectivity, such that = flooding of hello messages will not overwhelm an overly dense set of = routers, then you don't need to rely one special enhancements of standard = IGPs. All you're describing, I think, is a typical internet in which routers = happen to have RF links? Bert > -----Original Message----- > From: John Mullen [mailto:jomullen@nmsu.edu]=20 > Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 11:07 AM > To: manet@ulfius.com; manet@ietf.org=20 > Subject: RE: [manet] AODV Question >=20 >=20 > Hi Charlie, >=20 > Well, I can see one application of MANET technology in a situation in > which the nodes do not move. Consider the Dine' (Navajo) nation which > covers thousands of square miles in the southwestern US. =20 > Connecting the > many isolated communities with wire or fiber does not seem to be an > option. Furthermore, the Dine' would prefer not to use the=20 > ideal places > for antennas because of religious and other reasons. Every=20 > time you dig > a hole on the reservation, you need an archeologist. Other American > Indian jurisdictions are checkerboarded. That is, there are=20 > parcels of > fee simple land owned by non-members of the Tribe interspersed > throughout the area. In those cases, right of way is a big problem. >=20 > It is not just that putting up telephone poles is a problem, but also > that a common electrical supply is often not available. That is, any > repeaters would have to be self-powered. >=20 > Now, imagine a network of nodes that are powered by=20 > batteries, which in > turn, are recharged by solar energy. Also, assume the net is dense > enough that many nodes can go to standby while the others=20 > take the load. > However, as the evening wears on, the active nodes, one by one, will > have to shut down due to low power. Others could, at any=20 > time, have to > shut down due to malfunctions (we a talking of many nodes in a very > hostile environment). As each does so, one or more inactive=20 > nodes wakes > up to take the load. >=20 > Such a net would have no mobile nodes, but would require frequent > automatic reconfiguration. It wouldn't be entirely a MANET,=20 > since each > node could know where every other node was, but would require a degree > of automatic reconfiguration that ordinary protocols would not support > due to the frequent changes in the pattern of available=20 > nodes. I would > think that at least part of a MANET protocol would be=20 > helpful. Also, if > such a protocol were to be used, mobile nodes could be more easily > accommodated as they move throughout the communications area. >=20 > Just a thought. >=20 > John Mullen >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: manet-admin@ietf.org [mailto:manet-admin@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > Charles E. Perkins > Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 8:27 AM > To: DANIEL BYRNE > Cc: 'Erik Nordstr=F6m'; manet@ulfius.com; manet@ietf.org=20 > Subject: Re: [manet] AODV Question >=20 >=20 >=20 > Hello folks, >=20 > One or two comments below: >=20 > DANIEL BYRNE wrote: >=20 > > Yes we did, but everyone here is now saying that AODV doesn't work=20 > > well over 50 or more hops. >=20 > I can believe that the performance would suffer > greatly, depending on the mobility of the intermediate > nodes. If the nodes didn't move, then I wonder what > would go wrong? >=20 > Regarding the idea about replacing land lines, > I guess that any routing protocol would work, > even manual configuration. To overcome the=20 > hop limit, you could do encapsulations. >=20 > It doesn't seem to be a close match for the > technology provided for use with mobile ad > hoc networks since: > 1) the nodes aren't mobile, and > 2) the network isn't ad hoc. >=20 > Regards, > Charlie P. >=20 > _______________________________________________ > manet mailing list > manet@ietf.org=20 > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > manet mailing list > manet@ietf.org=20 > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet=20 >=20 _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org=20 https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 17 13:43:30 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA27555 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 13:43:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALoL7-0006Hn-Uq for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 13:43:12 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAHIh9dQ024157 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 13:43:09 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALoL7-0006HY-QM for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 13:43:09 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA27530 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 13:42:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALoL5-00040k-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 13:43:07 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALoL5-00040h-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 13:43:07 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALoKz-0006DQ-FP; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 13:43:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALoKb-0006Cy-6t for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 13:42:37 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA27500 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 13:42:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALoKY-00040N-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 13:42:35 -0500 Received: from mail1.wpi.edu ([130.215.36.102]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALoKY-00040K-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 13:42:34 -0500 Received: from mcafee.wpi.edu (mcafee.WPI.EDU [130.215.36.86]) by mail1.WPI.EDU (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hAHIgY8p029754 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 13:42:34 -0500 Received: from smtp.WPI.EDU(130.215.36.186) by mcafee.wpi.edu via csmap id 31097; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 13:42:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from cs.wpi.edu (cs.WPI.EDU [130.215.28.181]) by smtp.WPI.EDU (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAHIgXDF010547 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 13:42:33 -0500 Received: from cs.wpi.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cs.wpi.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAHIgXRV023021 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 13:42:33 -0500 Received: from localhost (emmanuel@localhost) by cs.wpi.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) with ESMTP id hAHIgX5d023018 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 13:42:33 -0500 Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 13:42:33 -0500 (EST) From: Emmanuel Agu To: manet@ietf.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-PMX-Version: 4.1.0.80455 Subject: [manet] Simulating 802.11b and g Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Hi everyone, >From what I understand, NS simulates 802.11 using 2mbps, based on an old Lucent WaveLAN card. A lot of recent papers have used these values. Are there newer NS implementations (versions) that simulate 11 mbps or 54 mbps, which is more realistic for today's cards? If NS does not support the newer speeds, does anyone have more up-to-date NS 802.11 implementations? Thanks in advance for any information. Emmanuel Agu _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 18 04:24:36 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA11478 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 04:24:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AM25q-0003nz-2o for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 04:24:18 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAI9OIuo014621 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 04:24:18 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AM25p-0003nk-OA for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 04:24:17 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA11420 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 04:24:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AM25m-000180-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 04:24:14 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AM25m-00017w-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 04:24:14 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AM25a-0003kN-1B; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 04:24:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AM24d-0003j1-AV for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 04:23:03 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA11369 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 04:22:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AM24a-00016j-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 04:23:00 -0500 Received: from smtp6.clb.oleane.net ([213.56.31.26]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AM24Z-00016Q-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 04:22:59 -0500 Received: from oleane ([194.250.212.114]) by smtp6.clb.oleane.net with SMTP id hAI9MS6f000533 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 10:22:28 +0100 Message-ID: <013301c3adb6$178ee640$0601a8c0@www.oleane.com> From: "Peter Lewis" To: Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 10:26:48 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0130_01C3ADBE.78EE9900" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Subject: [manet] 2004 WiFi Voice Conference Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , C'est un message de format MIME en plusieurs parties. ------=_NextPart_000_0130_01C3ADBE.78EE9900 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The 2004 WiFi Voice Conference will stand in Paris on May 25 to 28, = 2004.=20 The call for papers dead line has been extended until December 15, 2003. = Get more details at: http://www.upperside.fr/wifivoice04/wifivoice04intro.htm We also remind you that registration is still open to the New Mobile = Technologies Forum (UWB, IPCN and IPv6 Mobile sessions) at: http://www.upperside.fr/newmobtech/newmobtech03intro.htm ------=_NextPart_000_0130_01C3ADBE.78EE9900 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The 2004 WiFi Voice=20 Conference will stand in Paris on May 25 to=20 28, 2004. 
The call for papers dead line has been = extended until=20 December 15, 2003.
Get more details at:
http://= www.upperside.fr/wifivoice04/wifivoice04intro.htm
 
We also remind you that registration is still open to the New Mobile Technologies Forum (UWB, IPCN and IPv6 = Mobile=20 sessions) at:
http://= www.upperside.fr/newmobtech/newmobtech03intro.htm
<= /DIV>
 
------=_NextPart_000_0130_01C3ADBE.78EE9900-- _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 18 04:42:44 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA11909 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 04:42:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AM2NM-0005Ab-Cf for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 04:42:25 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAI9gOU2019862 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 04:42:24 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AM2NI-0005AH-KV for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 04:42:20 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA11895 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 04:42:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AM2NF-0001Ne-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 04:42:17 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AM2NF-0001Nb-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 04:42:17 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AM2N3-00054H-HL; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 04:42:05 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AM2Me-00053t-I9 for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 04:41:40 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA11889 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 04:41:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AM2Mb-0001NR-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 04:41:37 -0500 Received: from hyuee.hanyang.ac.kr ([166.104.46.161]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AM2Ma-0001NO-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 04:41:36 -0500 Received: (qmail 9703 invoked by alias); 18 Nov 2003 18:21:26 +0900 Received: from unknown (HELO cglee) (cglee@203.255.254.196) by 203.255.254.201 (qmail 1.03 + ejcp) with RC4-MD5 encrypted SMTP; 18 Nov 2003 18:21:26 +0900 Message-ID: <001c01c3adb8$21861950$c4feffcb@cglee> From: "???" To: Subject: [manet] help for getting information about mobility model Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 18:41:24 +0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGkNCg0KSSBoYXMgZm91bmQgdGhlcmUgYXJlIHNvbWUgbW9iaWxpdHkgbW9kZWwsIHJhbmRvbSBt b2RlbCwgd2F5cG9pbnQgbW9kZWwgZXRjLg0KDQpJcyBoZXJlIGFueW9uZSB3aG8ga25vd3MgYSB3 ZWItc2l0ZSBvciBwYXBlcnMgZm9yIG1vYmlsaXkgbW9kZWwgaW4gbWFuZXQ/DQoNCkkgYW0gcmVh ZHkgdG8gZ3JhdGl0dWRlIGZvciBqdXN0IGEgZmV3IHlvdXIgaW5mb3JtYXRpb24uDQoNClRoYW5r IHlvdS4NCmNnbGVl _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 18 05:23:31 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA12980 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 05:23:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AM30r-0007zH-Ho for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 05:23:14 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAIANDYn030702 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 05:23:13 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AM30q-0007z7-Il for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 05:23:12 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA12953 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 05:22:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AM30n-00020V-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 05:23:09 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AM30m-00020S-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 05:23:08 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AM30g-0007v0-JH; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 05:23:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AM2zq-0007uA-UT for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 05:22:10 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA12940 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 05:21:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AM2zn-00020C-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 05:22:07 -0500 Received: from web25208.mail.ukl.yahoo.com ([217.12.10.68]) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AM2zm-000209-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 05:22:06 -0500 Message-ID: <20031118102138.18463.qmail@web25208.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.95.41.229] by web25208.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 11:21:38 CET Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 11:21:38 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?xavier=20manavite?= To: manet@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-2120449252-1069150898=:16168" Subject: [manet] scalability to size Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , --0-2120449252-1069150898=:16168 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ietf.org id FAA12941 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi every body, =20 I'm preparing a master about "proposing a routing protocol scalable to ne= twork size and supporting a QoS" since 4 months ago, but when I find a no= vel idea to propose, there are a lot of proposals about the same idea. So= , please help, to find a novel idea before a deadline. I would to notice that I'm interesting to stochastic models (to permit sc= alability to mobility) and thier application with clustering methods (sca= lability to size). =20 Thanks in advance. --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? -- Une adresse @yahoo.fr gratuite et en fran=E7ais ! Testez le nouveau Yahoo! Mail --0-2120449252-1069150898=:16168 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ietf.org id FAA12941 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi every body,
 
I'm preparing a master about "proposing a routing protocol scal= able to network size and supporting a QoS" since 4 months ago, but w= hen I find a novel idea to propose, there are a lot of proposals about th= e same idea. So, please help, to find a novel idea before a deadline.
I would to notice that I'm interesting to stochastic models (to perm= it scalability to mobility) and thier application with clustering me= thods (scalability to size).
 
Thanks in advance.


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Mail --0-2120449252-1069150898=:16168-- _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 18 06:18:26 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA14784 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 06:18:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AM3s0-0004Y8-Ua for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 06:18:09 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAIBI8XE017482 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 06:18:08 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AM3s0-0004Xt-Nb for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 06:18:08 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA14736 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 06:17:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AM3rw-0002nT-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 06:18:04 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AM3rw-0002nQ-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 06:18:04 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AM3ru-0004Wc-Ot; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 06:18:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AM3rI-0004VJ-Gz for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 06:17:24 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA14675 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 06:17:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AM3rE-0002mY-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 06:17:20 -0500 Received: from iramx2.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de ([141.3.10.81]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AM3rD-0002mU-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 06:17:20 -0500 Received: from irams1.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de ([141.3.10.5] helo=irams1.ira.uka.de) by iramx2.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de with esmtp (Exim 3.30 #10 (Debian)) id 1AM3r7-0006mm-00; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 12:17:13 +0100 Received: from i40pc24.ipd.uni-karlsruhe.de ([141.3.48.141] helo=cottbus) by irams1.ira.uka.de with esmtp (Exim 3.30 #7 (Debian)) id 1AM3r5-0007VL-00; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 12:17:11 +0100 From: "Philipp Obreiter" To: "'???'" , Subject: AW: [manet] help for getting information about mobility model Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 12:19:43 +0100 Message-ID: <017e01c3adc5$ddd719d0$8d30038d@ipd.unikarlsruhe.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="WINDOWS-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <001c01c3adb8$21861950$c4feffcb@cglee> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, you might be interested in our WONS (Wireless On-demand Network Systems) 2004 paper: "Activity-Based User Modeling in Service-Oriented Ad hoc Networks" (http://dit.unitn.it/wons/). In the paper, we provided a discussion of conventional mobility models and proposed an activity based approach for such modelling. Regards, Philipp -----Urspr=FCngliche Nachricht----- Von: manet-admin@ietf.org [mailto:manet-admin@ietf.org] Im Auftrag von ??? Gesendet: Dienstag, 18. November 2003 10:41 An: manet@ietf.org Betreff: [manet] help for getting information about mobility model Hi I has found there are some mobility model, random model, waypoint model etc. Is here anyone who knows a web-site or papers for mobiliy model in manet? I am ready to gratitude for just a few your information. Thank you. cglee=99=A9=DE=B6f=A2=96)=E0=96+-=99=A9=DE=B6'=AD~=8A=E0=86=DBi=B3=FF=F0=C3= bz=D7=E8=AE=0F=E6j)fj=7F=E5=8A=CBb=9D=FA?=99=A9=DE _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 18 06:37:31 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA16973 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 06:37:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AM4AS-0006dL-JS for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 06:37:14 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAIBbCbJ025493 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 06:37:12 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AM4AS-0006d5-4M for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 06:37:12 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA16917 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 06:36:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AM4AN-0003I9-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 06:37:08 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AM4AN-0003I6-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 06:37:07 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AM4AH-0006Ws-UX; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 06:37:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AM4A0-0006Sr-9o for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 06:36:44 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA16856 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 06:36:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AM49w-0003Gx-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 06:36:40 -0500 Received: from cheviot3.ncl.ac.uk ([128.240.233.117]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AM49v-0003Gp-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 06:36:39 -0500 Received: from ncl.ac.uk (deerbook.ncl.ac.uk [128.240.149.114]) by cheviot3.ncl.ac.uk (8.10.1-20030918-patch/8.10.1) with ESMTP id hAIBaY819726; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 11:36:34 GMT Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 11:36:37 +0000 Subject: Re: [manet] help for getting information about mobility model Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Cc: To: From: Einar Vollset In-Reply-To: <001c01c3adb8$21861950$c4feffcb@cglee> Message-Id: <7814FA5D-19BB-11D8-9AFD-000A9575BD30@ncl.ac.uk> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) X-Newcastle-MailScanner-Information: Please contact Postmaster@newcastle.ac.uk for more information X-Newcastle-MailScanner: Found to be clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey, In my opinion, the best paper on mobility models is this one: T. Camp and J. Boleng and V. Davies, A Survey of Mobility Models for Ad Hoc Network Research, Wireless Communications and Mobile Computing (WCMC): Special issue on Mobile Ad Hoc Networking: Research, Trends and available at: http://citeseer.nj.nec.com/camp02survey.html I'd also check out BonnMotion (google it) for actually generating mobility scenarios for ns-2 or glomosim. Cheers, Einar ---------------------------------------- Einar Vollset PhD Student School of Computing Science University of Newcastle, UK http://vollset.org ----------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 18 07:11:37 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA18480 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 07:11:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AM4hP-0000GW-Gp for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 07:11:19 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAICBFET001020 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 07:11:15 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AM4hP-0000EG-9M for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 07:11:15 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA18464 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 07:11:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AM4hK-0003sx-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 07:11:10 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AM4hK-0003su-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 07:11:10 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AM4hC-00008q-3w; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 07:11:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AM4gz-00008N-9t for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 07:10:49 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA18457 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 07:10:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AM4gu-0003sY-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 07:10:44 -0500 Received: from london.unik.no ([193.156.97.32]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AM4gu-0003s7-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 07:10:44 -0500 Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 Subject: RE: [manet] Simulating 802.11b and g Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 13:10:15 +0100 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [manet] Simulating 802.11b and g thread-index: AcOtu2xOu/bT6oxEQxuyARTjNBUdtgABXIyQ From: "Frank Li" To: "Claude Chaudet" Cc: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Claude,=20 I guess you are using two-ray model with 'receiver sensitivity' -83 dBm = and Tx power 15 dBm to get the following CS threshold. Phy/WirelessPhy set CSThresh_ 5.011872e-12 My question is - is it sensible to use 'receiver sensitivity' to = calculate CS threshold? (Using the same calculation for -94 dBm at 1 = Mbps, the sensing range will be 796 m). Furthermore, does the CS threshold mean that the PHY header can be = correctly decoded if received power is above the threshold, or the = channel is sensed as busy but the PHY header can NOT be decoded?=20 BTW, CPThresh is the capture threshold, not required SNR to 'understand' = the frame. When multiple frames are detected, the frame with strongest = power (CPThresh>10) will be decoded, otherwise, all frames are = discarded.=20 BR Frank =20 -----Original Message----- From: Claude Chaudet [mailto:Claude.Chaudet@ens-lyon.fr] Sent: 18. november 2003 10:59 To: Emmanuel Agu Cc: manet@ietf.org Subject: Re: [manet] Simulating 802.11b and g Hello, That's true, NS (at least version 2.26) simulates 2Mbps 802.11. Nevertheless, you can change this by simply putting in your script the=20 following lines : Mac/802_11 set bandwidth_ 11e6 Mac/802_11 set dataRate_ 11e6 Mac/802_11 set basicRate_ 2e6 This only changes the rate at which data is sent. This can be useful=20 for simulating 802.11b protocol, for which only the physical layer changes. But=20 simulating 802.11a will need at least some timings modifications in the mac/mac-802_11.*=20 files. Concerning the physical layer parameters, I tried to update some=20 parameters based on the specification of an Avaya card. Nevertheless, being no expert in=20 physical layers, I cannot guarantee this will be the exact parameters. Here they are : Phy/WirelessPhy set CPThresh_ 10.0 Phy/WirelessPhy set CSThresh_ 5.011872e-12 Phy/WirelessPhy set RXThresh_ 1.15209e-10 Phy/WirelessPhy set Rb_ 11e6 Phy/WirelessPhy set bandwidth_ 11e6 Phy/WirelessPhy set Pt_ 0.031622777 Phy/WirelessPhy set freq_ 2457e+6 Phy/WirelessPhy set L_ 1.0 Concerning this, I wondered if anyone on this list could provide good=20 values once and for all, so that we can use ns, opnet and any other simulator on=20 the same basis. I am especially interested in the CPThresh parameter, i.e. the signal=20 over noise ratio (in dB) required to understand a frame. I found no value in any=20 NIC specification. I suppose it depends on the physical layer. 10 dB was used for early=20 802.11, is it still the good value for newer ones ? Claude Chaudet. _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 18 08:01:31 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA19450 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 08:01:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AM5Tj-0002As-NM for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 08:01:12 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAID1B5o008352 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 08:01:11 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AM5Tj-0002Ad-IP for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 08:01:11 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA19432 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 08:01:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AM5Ti-0004jo-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 08:01:10 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AM5Ti-0004jl-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 08:01:10 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AM5Ta-00028s-6S; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 08:01:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AM5T1-00026P-R7 for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 08:00:28 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA19396 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 08:00:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AM5T0-0004gf-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 08:00:26 -0500 Received: from mx.laposte.net ([81.255.54.11]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AM5T0-0004g5-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 08:00:26 -0500 Received: from laposte.net (127.0.0.1) by mx.laposte.net (6.0.053) id 3F65959E010377E3; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 13:38:08 +0100 Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 13:38:08 +0100 Message-Id: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Sensitivity: 3 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_=_XaM3_Bdry.1069159088.2A.425047.42.6181.52.42.1010.737" From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?mouna.ayari?=" To: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?yiu.chan?=" Cc: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?manet?=" X-XaM3-API-Version: 3.2 R29 (B54 pl1) X-type: 0 X-SenderIP: 193.95.33.18 Subject: [manet] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:[manet]_Estimate_of_end-to-end_delay?= Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , --_=_XaM3_Bdry.1069159088.2A.425047.42.6181.52.42.1010.737 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Edwin,=0D=0AI don't know a specific algorithm for estimating or predic= ting end-to-end delay in manet. However, QOLSR which is an extension of t= he OLSR routing protocol to support QoS in manets uses an estimation of e= nd to end delay to choose the appropriate route from a source to a destin= ation. QOLSR uses Hello and TC messages to estimate the end-to-end delay.= A description of this idea is presented in www.lri.fr/~alagha/OPNET/OLSR= .pdf and in dept-info.labri.fr/algotel03/CameraReady/62.ps. I hope that i= t could help you.=0D=0AMouna.=0D=0A--------------------------------------= ----=0D=0A> Hi all=0D=0A> =0D=0A> A similar question appeared some while = ago but I haven't seen any reply. So=0D=0A> I'll repeat here.=0D=0A> =0D=0A= > Is there any algorithm for estimating or predicting end-to-end delay in= a=0D=0A> manet? Also how wrong is that if I say the delay is proportiona= l to the hop=0D=0A> count of a path?=0D=0A> =0D=0A> Thanks in advance.=0D= =0A> =0D=0A> Edwin=0D=0A> =0D=0A> =0D=0A> _______________________________= ________________=0D=0A> manet mailing list=0D=0A> manet@ietf.org=0D=0A> h= ttps://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet=0D=0A> =0A=0AAcc=E9dez au cou= rrier =E9lectronique de La Poste : www.laposte.net ; =0A3615 LAPOSTENET (= 0,34=80/mn) ; t=E9l : 08 92 68 13 50 (0,34=80/mn)=0A=0A --_=_XaM3_Bdry.1069159088.2A.425047.42.6181.52.42.1010.737 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Edwin,

=0D=0A

I don't know a specific algorithm for estim= ating or predicting end-to-end delay in manet. However, QOLSR which is an= extension of the OLSR routing protocol to support QoS in manets uses an = estimation of end to end delay to choose the appropriate route from a sou= rce to a destination. QOLSR uses Hello and TC messages to estimate the en= d-to-end delay. A description of this idea is presented in www.lri.fr/~alagha/OPNET/OLSR.pdf<= /A> and in dept-info.labri.fr/algotel03/CameraReady/62.ps. I hope th= at it could help you.

=0D=0A

Mouna.

=0D=0A

--------------------= ----------------------
> Hi all

=0D=0A
>
=0D=0A> A similar question appeared some while ago but I haven't seen any r= eply. So
=0D=0A
> I'll repeat here.
=0D=0A
> =0D=0A
> Is there any algorithm for estimating or predicting end= -to-end delay in a
=0D=0A
> manet? Also how wrong is that if = I say the delay is proportional to the hop
=0D=0A
> count of = a path?
=0D=0A
>
=0D=0A
> Thanks in advance.=0D=0A
>
=0D=0A
> Edwin
=0D=0A
>
= =0D=0A
>
=0D=0A
> ___________________________________= ____________
=0D=0A
> manet mailing list
=0D=0A
>= manet@ietf.org
=0D=0A
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listin= fo/manet
=0D=0A
>
=0A

=0AAcc=E9dez au courrier =E9= lectronique de La Poste : www.laposte.net ; =0A
=0A3615 LAPOSTENET (0,= 34=80/mn) ; t=E9l : 08 92 68 13 50 (0,34=80/mn)=0A=0A --_=_XaM3_Bdry.1069159088.2A.425047.42.6181.52.42.1010.737-- _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 18 08:06:29 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA19637 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 08:06:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AM5YX-0002g2-Kf for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 08:06:09 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAID6914010281 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 08:06:09 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AM5YX-0002fj-84 for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 08:06:09 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA19625 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 08:05:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AM5YV-0004op-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 08:06:07 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AM5YV-0004om-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 08:06:07 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AM5YQ-0002Yj-EL; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 08:06:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AM5Xh-0002Xp-99 for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 08:05:17 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA19608 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 08:05:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AM5Xf-0004nq-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 08:05:15 -0500 Received: from mx.laposte.net ([81.255.54.11]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AM5Xf-0004nF-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 08:05:15 -0500 Received: from laposte.net (127.0.0.1) by mx.laposte.net (6.0.053) id 3FAA8BBF0035B4E0; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 14:04:12 +0100 Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 14:04:12 +0100 Message-Id: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Sensitivity: 3 X-Priority: 1 (Highest) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_=_XaM3_Bdry.1069160652.2A.576011.42.13613.52.42.1010.14019" From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?mouna.ayari?=" To: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?yiu.chan?=" Cc: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?manet?=" X-XaM3-API-Version: 3.2 R29 (B54 pl1) X-type: 0 X-SenderIP: 193.95.33.18 Subject: [manet] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:[manet]_Estimate_of_end-to-end_delay?= Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , --_=_XaM3_Bdry.1069160652.2A.576011.42.13613.52.42.1010.14019 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Edwin,=0D=0AI don't know a specific algorithm for estimating or predic= ting end-to-end =0D=0Adelay in a manet. However, QOLSR which is an extens= ion of the OLSR routing =0D=0Aprotocol to support QoS over manets uses a = delay estimation to choose the =0D=0Aappropriate route between a source a= nd a destination. It uses Hello and TC =0D=0Amessages to estimate and pre= dict end to end delay. This idea is presented in =0D=0Awww.lri.fr/~alagha= /OPNET/OLSR.pdf and in =0D=0Adept-info.labri.fr/algotel03/CameraReady/62.= ps. I hope that this information =0D=0Acould help you.=0D=0AMouna.=0D=0A-= --------------------------=0D=0A=0D=0A> Hi all=0D=0A> =0D=0A> A similar q= uestion appeared some while ago but I haven't seen any reply. So=0D=0A> I= 'll repeat here.=0D=0A> =0D=0A> Is there any algorithm for estimating or = predicting end-to-end delay in a=0D=0A> manet? Also how wrong is that if = I say the delay is proportional to the hop=0D=0A> count of a path?=0D=0A>= =0D=0A> Thanks in advance.=0D=0A> =0D=0A> Edwin=0D=0A> =0D=0A> =0D=0A> _= ______________________________________________=0D=0A> manet mailing list=0D= =0A> manet@ietf.org=0D=0A> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet=0D= =0A> =0A=0AAcc=E9dez au courrier =E9lectronique de La Poste : www.laposte= .net ; =0A3615 LAPOSTENET (0,34=80/mn) ; t=E9l : 08 92 68 13 50 (0,34=80/= mn)=0A=0A --_=_XaM3_Bdry.1069160652.2A.576011.42.13613.52.42.1010.14019 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Edwin,
I don't know a specific algorithm for estimating or predi= cting end-to-end

=0D=0A

delay in a manet. However, QOLSR which is a= n extension of the OLSR routing

=0D=0A

protocol to support QoS over= manets uses a delay estimation to choose the

=0D=0A

appropriate ro= ute between a source and a destination. It uses Hello and TC

=0D=0Amessages to estimate and predict end to end delay. This idea is presente= d in

=0D=0A

ww= w.lri.fr/~alagha/OPNET/OLSR.pdf and in

=0D=0A

dept-info.labri.f= r/algotel03/CameraReady/62.ps. I hope that this information

=0D=0A

= could help you.
Mouna.

=0D=0A

---------------------------

= =0D=0A
> Hi all
=0D=0A
>
=0D=0A
> A simil= ar question appeared some while ago but I haven't seen any reply. So=0D=0A
> I'll repeat here.
=0D=0A
>
=0D=0A
= > Is there any algorithm for estimating or predicting end-to-end delay= in a
=0D=0A
> manet? Also how wrong is that if I say the del= ay is proportional to the hop
=0D=0A
> count of a path?
= =0D=0A
>
=0D=0A
> Thanks in advance.
=0D=0A
= >
=0D=0A
> Edwin
=0D=0A
>
=0D=0A
&g= t;
=0D=0A
> _______________________________________________<= /DIV>=0D=0A
> manet mailing list
=0D=0A
> manet@ietf.o= rg
=0D=0A
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet=0D=0A
>
=0A

=0AAcc=E9dez au courrier =E9lectronique= de La Poste : www.laposte.net ; =0A
=0A3615 LAPOSTENET (0,34=80/mn) ;= t=E9l : 08 92 68 13 50 (0,34=80/mn)=0A=0A --_=_XaM3_Bdry.1069160652.2A.576011.42.13613.52.42.1010.14019-- _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 18 17:20:26 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA21303 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 17:20:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMECd-00051L-S2 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 17:20:08 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAIMK7Rr019292 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 17:20:07 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMECc-000515-Lh for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 17:20:06 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA21292 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 17:19:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMECa-0000ZE-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 17:20:04 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMECZ-0000Z9-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 17:20:03 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMEBZ-0004sk-2D; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 17:19:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMEBR-0004sL-Ca for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 17:18:53 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA21251 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 17:18:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMEBO-0000Xd-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 17:18:50 -0500 Received: from imap.ncat.edu ([152.8.25.5]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMEBO-0000Xa-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 17:18:50 -0500 Received: from ipcv3 (ipcv3.elen.ncat.edu [152.8.113.156]) by imap.ncat.edu (Switch-2.2.8/Switch-2.2.4) with ESMTP id hAIMIdv22786 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 17:18:39 -0500 (EST) From: "Justin" To: Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 17:18:59 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c3ae21$f715ca20$9c710898@ipcv3> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C3ADF8.0E3FC220" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Subject: [manet] Glomosim Java Visualization Tool Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C3ADF8.0E3FC220 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear all users, I am a graduate student at North Carolina A&T State University and I am doing research in the area of wireless networks. I downloaded GloMoSim to assist in simulation. I have successfully compiled and ran GloMoSim in DOS and have viewed the outputted text file. The problem that I am having deals with the Java GUI. I downloaded the Java development kit 1.3. Next I followed the steps in the vis_help file: [A] Preliminaries: - Make sure that the Java Development Kit (JDK) version 1.2 or higher is installed on your machine. Our VT now base on swing package of JDK If you prefer to use JDK 1.1, you must install the swing package for JDK 1.1. The swing package is included in JDK1.2. - Make sure that you have already compiled the GloMoSim source files. (see $glomo/doc/user.txt for more information on compiling GloMoSim) - Compile the Java VT files: - cd to the $glomo/java_gui/ directory - type: "javac *.java" [B] Starting the VT: - From the $glomo/java_gui/ directory, type: "java GlomoMain &" [C] An Example Use of the VT: - Start up the VT as explained in part b above. - Select "Real Time" from the "Simulate" menu. - A dialog will pop up asking for the name of the executable to run. The default is: "../bin/Sim ../bin/CONFIG.IN"(UNIX) or "..\bin\glomo ..\bin\CONFIG.IN"(Windows NT); Click the "OK" button to continue. After performing the step in part [B] the GUI successfully opens and I proceed to step [C]. But when I select "Real Time" from the "Simulate" menu, I choose the correct files to execute and then nothing happens. I have also tried to perform the "Write Trace" option with no output. The trace file that I try to play back is empty. Can you please help me resolve this issue or give me some suggestions? Any replies will be greatly appreciated. Thanks and have a wonderful day, Justin Taylor Graduate Research Assistant North Carolina A&T State University ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C3ADF8.0E3FC220 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dear all users,

 

I am a graduate student at North = Carolina A&T State University and I am doing research in the area of wireless networks.  I downloaded = GloMoSim to assist in simulation.  I have successfully compiled and ran = GloMoSim in DOS and have viewed the outputted text file. 

 

The problem that I am having deals with the Java = GUI.  I downloaded the Java development kit 1.3.  Next I followed the = steps in the vis_help file:

 

[A] Preliminaries:

    - Make sure that the Java Development Kit (JDK) version 1.2 or higher

      is installed = on your machine. Our VT now base on swing package of JDK

      If you prefer = to use JDK 1.1, you must install the swing package for

      JDK 1.1. The = swing package is included in JDK1.2.

    - Make sure that you have = already compiled the GloMoSim source files.

      (see $glomo/doc/user.txt for more information on compiling = GloMoSim)

    - Compile the Java VT = files:

      - cd to the = $glomo/java_gui/ directory

      - type: = "javac *.java"

 

[B] Starting the VT:

    - From the = $glomo/java_gui/ directory, type: "java GlomoMain &"

 

[C] An Example Use of the = VT:

    - Start up the VT as = explained in part b above.

    - Select "Real = Time" from the "Simulate" menu.

    - A dialog will pop up = asking for the name of the executable to run.

      The default = is: "../bin/Sim ../bin/CONFIG.IN"(UNIX)

      or = "..\bin\glomo ..\bin\CONFIG.IN"(Windows NT);

      Click the "OK" button to continue.

 

After performing the step in part [B] the GUI = successfully opens and I proceed to step [C].  But when I select “Real Time” from the “Simulate” menu, I choose the correct = files to execute and then nothing happens.  I have also tried to perform the “Write Trace” option with no output.  The trace file = that I try to play back is empty.

 

Can you please help me resolve this issue or give me = some suggestions?  Any replies will be greatly = appreciated.

 

Thanks and have a wonderful day,

 

Justin Taylor

Graduate Research Assistant

North Carolina A&T State University

=

 

 

------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C3ADF8.0E3FC220-- _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 18 19:07:35 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA27021 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 19:07:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMFsM-0002f7-VQ for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 19:07:19 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAJ07IRd010227 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 19:07:18 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMFsM-0002es-MD for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 19:07:18 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA26974 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 19:07:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMFsJ-0003Et-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 19:07:15 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMFsI-0003Eq-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 19:07:14 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMFs7-0002YJ-Aw; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 19:07:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMFro-0002Wm-Sj for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 19:06:44 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA26943 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 19:06:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMFrl-0003Ds-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 19:06:41 -0500 Received: from pedigree.cs.ubc.ca ([142.103.6.50]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMFrk-0003Dn-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 19:06:40 -0500 Received: from newcastle.cs.ubc.ca (newcastle.cs.ubc.ca [142.103.6.21]) by pedigree.cs.ubc.ca (8.12.10/8.11.4) with ESMTP id hAJ06d23009417; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 16:06:39 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 16:06:39 -0800 (PST) From: Suprio Ray To: Justin cc: manet@ietf.org Subject: Re: [manet] Glomosim Java Visualization Tool In-Reply-To: <000001c3ae21$f715ca20$9c710898@ipcv3> Message-ID: References: <000001c3ae21$f715ca20$9c710898@ipcv3> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , I also faced similar problem. The solution that worked for me was that I specified the FULL paths of all files like app.conf in the config.in file. See if it works for you. Best of luck. -Suprio ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Tue, 18 Nov 2003, Justin wrote: > Dear all users, > > > > I am a graduate student at North Carolina A&T State University and I am > doing research in the area of wireless networks. I downloaded GloMoSim > to assist in simulation. I have successfully compiled and ran GloMoSim > in DOS and have viewed the outputted text file. > > > > The problem that I am having deals with the Java GUI. I downloaded the > Java development kit 1.3. Next I followed the steps in the vis_help > file: > > > > [A] Preliminaries: > > - Make sure that the Java Development Kit (JDK) version 1.2 or > higher > > is installed on your machine. Our VT now base on swing package of > JDK > > If you prefer to use JDK 1.1, you must install the swing package > for > > JDK 1.1. The swing package is included in JDK1.2. > > - Make sure that you have already compiled the GloMoSim source > files. > > (see $glomo/doc/user.txt for more information on compiling > GloMoSim) > > - Compile the Java VT files: > > - cd to the $glomo/java_gui/ directory > > - type: "javac *.java" > > > > [B] Starting the VT: > > - From the $glomo/java_gui/ directory, type: "java GlomoMain &" > > > > [C] An Example Use of the VT: > > - Start up the VT as explained in part b above. > > - Select "Real Time" from the "Simulate" menu. > > - A dialog will pop up asking for the name of the executable to run. > > The default is: "../bin/Sim ../bin/CONFIG.IN"(UNIX) > > or "..\bin\glomo ..\bin\CONFIG.IN"(Windows NT); > > Click the "OK" button to continue. > > > > After performing the step in part [B] the GUI successfully opens and I > proceed to step [C]. But when I select "Real Time" from the "Simulate" > menu, I choose the correct files to execute and then nothing happens. I > have also tried to perform the "Write Trace" option with no output. The > trace file that I try to play back is empty. > > > > Can you please help me resolve this issue or give me some suggestions? > Any replies will be greatly appreciated. > > > > Thanks and have a wonderful day, > > > > Justin Taylor > > Graduate Research Assistant > > North Carolina A&T State University > > > > > > _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 18 22:25:36 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA03855 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 22:25:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMIxz-0003rv-4Y for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 22:25:19 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAJ3PJpq014865 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 22:25:19 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMIxy-0003rg-Uj for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 22:25:18 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA03819 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 22:25:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMIxv-0006c2-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 22:25:15 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMIxv-0006bw-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 22:25:15 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMIxi-0003mK-O3; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 22:25:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMIxf-0003ly-5E for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 22:24:59 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA03800 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 22:24:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMIxb-0006bS-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 22:24:55 -0500 Received: from mail11.ntu.edu.sg ([155.69.5.163]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMIxb-0006ac-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 22:24:55 -0500 Received: from mail03.student.main.ntu.edu.sg ([155.69.5.167]) by mail11.ntu.edu.sg with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5576); Wed, 19 Nov 2003 11:19:35 +0800 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-2022-jp" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.6944.0 Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 11:10:55 +0800 Message-ID: <052033A55521254893A4E2041957E1D05C433F@mail03.student.main.ntu.edu.sg> Thread-Topic: About the conferernce lists for MANET Thread-Index: AcOuSr9uRrxiei9FQSSutnbfvvx0EQ== From: "#LI ZHUOWEI#" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Nov 2003 03:19:35.0382 (UTC) FILETIME=[F5110760:01C3AE4B] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [manet] About the conferernce lists for MANET Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Everybody, Do you know one good maintained conference list for MANET? Or some special issues on MANET? Thank you.. Regards! Sincerely yours, Li Zhuowei **************************************************************************** ****** Title: Ph.D. candidate ****** Email: zhwei.li@pmail.ntu.edu.sg ****** Home: http://www.cais.ntu.edu.sg/~zhuowei ****** or http://www.ntu.edu.sg/home5/pg01316106 **************************************************************************** 　 _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 18 22:32:23 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA04223 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 22:32:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMJ4X-0004KW-B9 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 22:32:05 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAJ3W5De016638 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 22:32:05 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMJ4X-0004KH-5r for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 22:32:05 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA04169 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 22:31:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMJ4T-0006mf-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 22:32:01 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMJ4T-0006mc-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 22:32:01 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMJ4T-0004GI-Kt; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 22:32:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMJ42-0004Fs-Mr for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 22:31:34 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA04150 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 22:31:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMJ3z-0006m7-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 22:31:31 -0500 Received: from mail11.ntu.edu.sg ([155.69.5.163]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMJ3y-0006hx-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 22:31:30 -0500 Received: from mail01.student.main.ntu.edu.sg ([155.69.5.165]) by mail11.ntu.edu.sg with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5576); Wed, 19 Nov 2003 11:31:00 +0800 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-2022-jp" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: RE: [manet] About the conferernce lists for MANET X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.6944.0 Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 11:31:01 +0800 Message-ID: <3D565922795545468AE3E3DA2881BEA901F85B3A@mail01.student.main.ntu.edu.sg> Thread-Topic: About the conferernce lists for MANET Thread-Index: AcOuSr9uRrxiei9FQSSutnbfvvx0EQAAowww From: "#LI ZHIFEI#" To: "#LI ZHUOWEI#" Cc: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Nov 2003 03:31:00.0463 (UTC) FILETIME=[8D6817F0:01C3AE4D] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hi, zhou wei There is one: http://www.cs.ucla.edu/NRL/wireless/cfp.html. li zhifei -----Original Message----- From: manet-admin@ietf.org [mailto:manet-admin@ietf.org]On Behalf Of #LI ZHUOWEI# Sent: dimecres, 19 / novembre / 2003 11:11 To: manet@ietf.org Subject: [manet] About the conferernce lists for MANET Hi, Everybody, Do you know one good maintained conference list for MANET? Or some special issues on MANET? Thank you.. Regards! Sincerely yours, Li Zhuowei **************************************************************************** ****** Title: Ph.D. candidate ****** Email: zhwei.li@pmail.ntu.edu.sg ****** Home: http://www.cais.ntu.edu.sg/‾zhuowei ****** or http://www.ntu.edu.sg/home5/pg01316106 **************************************************************************** 　 _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Nov 19 02:00:42 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA09731 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 02:00:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMMK9-0004aI-5d for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 02:00:25 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAJ70PS3017616 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 02:00:25 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMMK8-0004a3-Mt for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 02:00:24 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA09207 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 02:00:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMMK5-0001XS-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 02:00:21 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMMK4-0001XP-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 02:00:20 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMMJs-0004YJ-4H; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 02:00:08 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMMJW-0004XN-7q for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 01:59:46 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA09028 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 01:59:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMMJR-0001Wn-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 01:59:41 -0500 Received: from web25208.mail.ukl.yahoo.com ([217.12.10.68]) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMMJQ-0001Wk-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 01:59:40 -0500 Message-ID: <20031119065911.2175.qmail@web25208.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.95.41.229] by web25208.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 07:59:11 CET Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 07:59:11 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?xavier=20manavite?= To: manet@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1121209390-1069225151=:2017" Subject: [manet] stochastic distribution Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , --0-1121209390-1069225151=:2017 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ietf.org id BAA09029 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi every body, =20 What do you think about using a stochastic distributions associated with = routing table : so, to eatch destination the source have more than one en= try with different probabilities (the node S can reach the node D through= node1 with probabilty P1 and reach the same node D through node2 with pr= obabilty P2). =20 Using a stochastic distributions will improve, or not, scalability to mob= ility and network size ? =20 there is any metric witch contabilise the overhead when we use a stochast= ic distribution? =20 If there is any work related to this topic, please indicate it to me ? if there is any one interested to this topic i will be very gratefull to = establish a workgroup to develop this them ? --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? -- Une adresse @yahoo.fr gratuite et en fran=E7ais ! Testez le nouveau Yahoo! Mail --0-1121209390-1069225151=:2017 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ietf.org id BAA09029 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi every body,
 
What do you think about using a stochastic distributions associated = with routing table : so, to eatch destination the source have more than o= ne entry with different probabilities (the node S can reach the node D th= rough node1 with probabilty P1 and reach the same node D through node2 wi= th probabilty P2).
 
Using a stochastic distributions will improve, or not, scalabil= ity to mobility and network size ?
 
there is any metric witch contabilise the overhead when we use a sto= chastic distribution?
 
If there is any work related to this topic, please indicate it to me= ?
if there is any one interested to this topic i will be very grateful= l to establish a workgroup to develop this them ?


Do You Yahoo!? -- Une adresse @yahoo.fr gratuite et en fran=E7ais !
Testez le nouveau Yahoo! Mail --0-1121209390-1069225151=:2017-- _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Nov 19 11:46:45 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA25758 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 11:46:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMVTH-0006VF-LA for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 11:46:28 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAJGkRci024991 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 11:46:27 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMVTH-0006V0-HR for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 11:46:27 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA25689 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 11:46:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMVTG-0002qp-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 11:46:26 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMVTF-0002qm-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 11:46:25 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMVSr-0006Ss-NJ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 11:46:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMVSo-0006SG-ON for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 11:45:58 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA25644 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 11:45:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMVSn-0002nG-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 11:45:57 -0500 Received: from smtp1.utdallas.edu ([129.110.10.12]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMVSn-0002m7-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 11:45:57 -0500 Received: from infoserv.utdallas.edu (infoserv.utdallas.edu [129.110.16.2]) by smtp1.utdallas.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA9E63890A6; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 10:45:26 -0600 (CST) Received: from localhost (montgo@localhost) by infoserv.utdallas.edu (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id KAA04071; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 10:45:26 -0600 (CST) X-Authentication-Warning: infoserv.utdallas.edu: montgo owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 10:45:26 -0600 (CST) From: Don Montgomery To: =?iso-8859-1?q?xavier=20manavite?= Cc: manet@ietf.org Subject: Re: [manet] stochastic distribution In-Reply-To: <20031119065911.2175.qmail@web25208.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: References: <20031119065911.2175.qmail@web25208.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Hi Xavier, S.S. Kulkarni and G.R. Dattatreya of UT Dallas have investigated a scenario similar to the one you describe, and developed a stochastic routing technique. See: G. R. Dattatreya, S. S. Kulkarni, H. Martinez, and R. Soto, "Adaptive control of heterogeneous ad hoc networks," IEEE International Conference on Systems, Man, and Cybernetics, Nashville, TN, Oct. 2000. S. S. Kulkarni and G. R. Dattatreya, "SMART: Statistically multiplexed adaptive routing techniques for ad hoc networks," To appear in Wireless Networks: The Journal of Mobile Communication, Computation, and Information. vol. 10, no. 2, March 2004. These are available in postscript at www.utdallas.edu/‾datta Regards, Don On Wed, 19 Nov 2003, [iso-8859-1] xavier manavite wrote: Hi every body, What do you think about using a stochastic distributions associated with routing table : so, to eatch destination the source have more than one entry with different probabilities (the node S can reach the node D through node1 with probabilty P1 and reach the same node D through node2 with probabilty P2). Using a stochastic distributions will improve, or not, scalability to mobility and network size ? there is any metric witch contabilise the overhead when we use a stochastic distribution? If there is any work related to this topic, please indicate it to me ? if there is any one interested to this topic i will be very gratefull to establish a workgroup to develop this them ? --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? -- Une adresse @yahoo.fr gratuite et en fran=E7ais ! Testez le nouveau Yahoo! Mail _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Nov 19 12:26:37 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA28029 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 12:26:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMW5s-0000yA-H3 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 12:26:21 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAJHQKi3003726 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 12:26:20 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMW5s-0000xw-AM for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 12:26:20 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA27967 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 12:26:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMW5n-0003xV-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 12:26:16 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMW5n-0003xR-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 12:26:15 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMW5b-0000rb-Dr; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 12:26:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMW5O-0000ql-RN for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 12:25:50 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA27945 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 12:25:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMW5N-0003wq-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 12:25:49 -0500 Received: from web41201.mail.yahoo.com ([66.218.93.34]) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMW5M-0003wL-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 12:25:48 -0500 Message-ID: <20031119172511.87245.qmail@web41201.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [129.110.97.113] by web41201.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 09:25:11 PST Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 09:25:11 -0800 (PST) From: Pallavi Mavinkurve To: manet@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <20031119170005.28129.67956.Mailman@www1.ietf.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-564545354-1069262711=:84381" Subject: [manet] pls help me locate a paper Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , --0-564545354-1069262711=:84381 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi, I am having trouble in locating a soft copy of the following paper that I need for my research. "Selecting routers in wireless ad hoc networks" by A.K.Parekh, appeared in ITC 1994. I have noticed that there is not a lot of research about the highest connectivity clustering for MANET's. If any of you know any referances about this apart from the Mario Gerla papers, I would be very grateful. Pallavi. Pallavi Mavinkurve Pallavi.Mavinkurve@student.utdallas.edu "If we are unwilling to be aware of the dark, we cannot see the light" John Cowan --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard --0-564545354-1069262711=:84381 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

Hi,

I am having trouble in locating a soft copy of the following paper that I need for my research.

"Selecting routers in wireless ad hoc networks" by A.K.Parekh, appeared in ITC 1994.

I have noticed that there is not a lot of research about the highest connectivity clustering for MANET's. If any of you know any referances about this apart from the Mario Gerla papers, I would be very grateful.

Pallavi. 



Pallavi Mavinkurve

Pallavi.Mavinkurve@student.utdallas.edu

"If we are unwilling to be aware of the dark, we cannot see the light"

John Cowan

 

Do you Yahoo!?
Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard --0-564545354-1069262711=:84381-- _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Nov 19 15:11:47 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA08071 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 15:11:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMYfj-0003jz-90 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 15:11:31 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAJKBVdG014373 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 15:11:31 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMYfj-0003jk-51 for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 15:11:31 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA07998 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 15:11:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMYff-0001Da-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 15:11:27 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMYfV-0001DP-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 15:11:17 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMYfH-0003ic-Bm; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 15:11:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMYf7-0003iG-EX for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 15:10:53 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA07927 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 15:10:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMYf4-0001Cu-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 15:10:50 -0500 Received: from web14526.mail.yahoo.com ([216.136.224.55]) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMYf4-0001Cr-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 15:10:50 -0500 Message-ID: <20031119201049.82119.qmail@web14526.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [129.219.38.114] by web14526.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 12:10:49 PST Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 12:10:49 -0800 (PST) From: Zee Jay To: manet@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [manet] defer timer in NS Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Hi, Could someone let me know how the defer timer [in mac 802.11] works in NS.. When does a node [ in NS] defer its transmission. Thanks in advance for any help. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Nov 19 20:04:33 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA27443 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 20:04:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMdF1-0002D8-0Y for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 20:04:15 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAK14EvR008497 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 20:04:14 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMdF0-0002Cy-RV for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 20:04:14 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA27417 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 20:04:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMdEy-0000MJ-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 20:04:12 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMdEy-0000MG-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 20:04:12 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMdEn-0002Bj-Hu; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 20:04:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMdEh-0002AR-IA for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 20:03:55 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA27413 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 20:03:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMdEf-0000MA-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 20:03:53 -0500 Received: from patty.levels.unisa.edu.au ([130.220.36.156]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMdEe-0000M4-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 20:03:52 -0500 Received: from spri.levels.unisa.edu.au (morpheus [172.17.0.143]) by patty.levels.unisa.edu.au (8.12.10/8.12.2) with ESMTP id hAK13mv1005830 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:33:49 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <3FBC12F3.2010808@spri.levels.unisa.edu.au> Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:33:47 +1030 From: Peter Pham User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020830 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: MANET Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [manet] Question regarding Mobility Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all I am interested in modelling ad hoc networks. In the stationary scenario (nodes do not move), I can assume that the mobile nodes are distributed randomly according to Poisson distribution (many assumed so). However, is this assumption still valid under the mobility ? Can anyone give me some advice ? Peter Pham _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Nov 19 20:28:30 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA28325 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 20:28:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMdcC-0003SF-En for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 20:28:13 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAK1SCdK013273 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 20:28:12 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMdcC-0003S0-1p for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 20:28:12 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA28308 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 20:27:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMdc9-0000kP-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 20:28:09 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMdc9-0000kM-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 20:28:09 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMdc1-0003Kw-Ll; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 20:28:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMdbw-0003Kg-G7 for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 20:27:56 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA28303 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 20:27:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMdbu-0000kI-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 20:27:54 -0500 Received: from pollen.cs.concordia.ca ([132.205.44.61] ident=root) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMdbt-0000kF-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 20:27:53 -0500 Received: from cs.concordia.ca (minerva [132.205.66.146]) by pollen.cs.concordia.ca (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAK1RjgD015001 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 20:27:45 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3FBC17B3.3090707@cs.concordia.ca> Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 20:24:03 -0500 From: Anup Patnaik User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20030225 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: manet@ietf.org References: <20031119170005.28129.67956.Mailman@www1.ietf.org> In-Reply-To: <20031119170005.28129.67956.Mailman@www1.ietf.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [manet] Re: manet digest, Vol 1 #629 - 6 msgs Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Li Zhuowei Here are a few more listings of journals/conferences related to MANETs http://www.cs.virginia.edu/‾adw5p/conferences.html http://black.csl.uiuc.edu/‾kawadia/confs.html http://dutetvg.et.tudelft.nl/‾alex/CFP/ Anup > hi, zhou wei > > There is one: http://www.cs.ucla.edu/NRL/wireless/cfp.html. > > li zhifei > --------------------- > > Hi, Everybody, > > Do you know one good maintained conference list for MANET? Or some special issues on MANET? Thank you.. > > _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Nov 19 21:48:37 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA00190 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 21:48:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMerj-0006qY-PO for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 21:48:20 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAK2mJUn026312 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 21:48:19 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMerj-0006qJ-Lm for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 21:48:19 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA00168 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 21:48:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMerg-0001ga-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 21:48:16 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMerg-0001gX-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 21:48:16 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMerR-0006mE-Io; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 21:48:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMer6-0006ha-3Z for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 21:47:40 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA00137 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 21:47:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMer3-0001fq-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 21:47:37 -0500 Received: from nestor.nmsu.edu ([128.123.34.146] helo=mail.nmsu.edu) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMer2-0001fn-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 21:47:36 -0500 Received: from PCMullen2 (pc-mullen-2.NMSU.Edu [128.123.245.103]) by mail.nmsu.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DE9F2026; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 19:47:36 -0700 (MST) From: "John Mullen" To: "'Peter Pham'" , "'MANET'" Subject: RE: [manet] Question regarding Mobility Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 19:47:36 -0700 Message-ID: <000101c3af10$a7da3960$67f57b80@IEngr.ad.nmsu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: <3FBC12F3.2010808@spri.levels.unisa.edu.au> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Peter, In general, the distribution of nodes while in motion differs from that when they are stationary, but in the particular case you describe, I am not sure. The Poisson distribution essentially describes a uniform distribution over an unbounded region. If the region is bounded, and if nodes pick a location, then move to it, the distribution of nodes in motion will have a more central distribution because when near a boundary, it is more likely to pick a new location that is towards the interior than further out. However, without a boundary, this reasoning does not apply and it might be that the distribution does not change. So if the region is bounded, and if destinations are chosen according to the original placement distribution, the answer is "yes," but if the region is unbounded or if some other destination rule is used, I am not sure. John Mullen -----Original Message----- From: manet-admin@ietf.org [mailto:manet-admin@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Peter Pham Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 6:04 PM To: MANET Subject: [manet] Question regarding Mobility Hi all I am interested in modelling ad hoc networks. In the stationary scenario (nodes do not move), I can assume that the mobile nodes are distributed randomly according to Poisson distribution (many assumed so). However, is this assumption still valid under the mobility ? Can anyone give me some advice ? Peter Pham _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Nov 19 22:03:33 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA00513 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 22:03:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMf6C-0007Oe-0k for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 22:03:17 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAK33Fgb028426 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 22:03:15 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMf6B-0007OP-Ob for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 22:03:15 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA00503 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 22:03:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMf68-0001r9-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 22:03:12 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMf68-0001r6-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 22:03:12 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMf5y-0007Gj-0J; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 22:03:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMf5Y-0007G3-0A for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 22:02:36 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA00482 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 22:02:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMf5U-0001qV-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 22:02:32 -0500 Received: from okigate.oki.co.jp ([202.226.91.194] helo=iscan2.intra.oki.co.jp) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMf5U-0001qS-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 22:02:32 -0500 Received: from s24c5.dm1.oii.oki.co.jp (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by iscan2.intra.oki.co.jp (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA22348; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 12:02:09 +0900 Received: from localhost (coffee.yokosuka.oki.co.jp [10.42.129.46]) by s24c5.dm1.oii.oki.co.jp (8.9.3/3.7W) with ESMTP id MAA07880; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 12:02:08 +0900 (envelope-from ytnk@ieee.org) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 12:01:54 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <20031120.120154.60854190.tanaka686@oki.com> To: manet@ietf.org From: yuichi tanaka Organization: Wireless Technology R&D Div., Oki Electric Industry Co., Ltd. X-fingerprint: 7C 82 4E C6 21 C3 1D 69 4B 40 C1 76 E6 F7 F8 D5 X-Mailer: Mew version 3.3 on Emacs 21.1 / Mule 5.0 =?iso-2022-jp?B?KBskQjgtTFobKEIp?= / Meadow-2.00 Beta2-dev (WOMINAHESHI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [manet] question about 802.11 entry time Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Did anyone analyze the L2/L1 entry time of 802.11b/g/a? I want to know the time which it takes when a new terminal goes into a BSS. In order to be able to use a new terminal, how much time does it take? Does a terminal scan the frequency, when going into BSS? How much time does the scan take? Could you teach me where the information about this is? Thanks Regards, -- Yuichi Tanaka _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Nov 19 22:05:36 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA00629 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 22:05:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMf83-0007j4-DF for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 22:05:20 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAK35B7U029699 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 22:05:11 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMf83-0007iw-6W for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 22:05:11 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA00596 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 22:04:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMf80-0001tX-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 22:05:08 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMf7z-0001tU-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 22:05:07 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMf7v-0007bL-OF; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 22:05:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMf7H-0007U3-RX for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 22:04:23 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA00559 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 22:04:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMf7E-0001rv-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 22:04:20 -0500 Received: from ns2w.atr.co.jp ([133.186.1.11] helo=mailgw2.atr.co.jp) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMf7C-0001rV-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 22:04:18 -0500 Received: from vcms.atr.co.jp (beta.atr.co.jp [133.186.254.11]) by mailgw2.atr.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9942418C7A; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 12:03:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from acr.acr.atr.co.jp (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vcms.atr.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B087DB33; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 12:03:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from [133.186.57.247] (rpc404.acr.atr.co.jp [133.186.57.247]) by acr.acr.atr.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1CAA3D40B0; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 12:03:43 +0900 (JST) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 12:03:47 +0900 From: Mohammad Aminul Haq To: "Justin" Subject: Re: [manet] Glomosim Java Visualization Tool Cc: In-Reply-To: <000001c3ae21$f715ca20$9c710898@ipcv3> References: <000001c3ae21$f715ca20$9c710898@ipcv3> Message-Id: <20031120115921.5336.MOHAMMAD.AMINUL.HAQ@acm.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Becky! ver. 2.05.10 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Two solutions: 1. is to copy the configuration files (nodes.input, mobility.in, app.conf and config.in) to java_gui directory. 2. is to specify in the VT the full path where the configuration file (CONFIG.IN) is located. However in this case, full paths of all secondary configuration files should also be specified in the CONFIG.IN file. You can have a look in Glomosim-Users-L Mailing list. -Aminul. On Tue, 18 Nov 2003 17:18:59 -0500 "Justin" wrote: Dear all users, I am a graduate student at North Carolina A&T State University and I am doing research in the area of wireless networks. I downloaded GloMoSim to assist in simulation. I have successfully compiled and ran GloMoSim in DOS and have viewed the outputted text file. The problem that I am having deals with the Java GUI. I downloaded the Java development kit 1.3. Next I followed the steps in the vis_help file: [A] Preliminaries: - Make sure that the Java Development Kit (JDK) version 1.2 or higher is installed on your machine. Our VT now base on swing package of JDK If you prefer to use JDK 1.1, you must install the swing package for JDK 1.1. The swing package is included in JDK1.2. - Make sure that you have already compiled the GloMoSim source files. (see $glomo/doc/user.txt for more information on compiling GloMoSim) - Compile the Java VT files: - cd to the $glomo/java_gui/ directory - type: "javac *.java" [B] Starting the VT: - From the $glomo/java_gui/ directory, type: "java GlomoMain &" [C] An Example Use of the VT: - Start up the VT as explained in part b above. - Select "Real Time" from the "Simulate" menu. - A dialog will pop up asking for the name of the executable to run. The default is: "../bin/Sim ../bin/CONFIG.IN"(UNIX) or "..¥bin¥glomo ..¥bin¥CONFIG.IN"(Windows NT); Click the "OK" button to continue. After performing the step in part [B] the GUI successfully opens and I proceed to step [C]. But when I select "Real Time" from the "Simulate" menu, I choose the correct files to execute and then nothing happens. I have also tried to perform the "Write Trace" option with no output. The trace file that I try to play back is empty. Can you please help me resolve this issue or give me some suggestions? Any replies will be greatly appreciated. Thanks and have a wonderful day, Justin Taylor Graduate Research Assistant North Carolina A&T State University -- Mohammad Aminul Haq _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Nov 19 23:58:36 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA03694 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 23:58:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMgtW-0003fJ-Sd for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 23:58:19 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAK4wIiD014083 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 23:58:18 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMgtW-0003f3-AX for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 23:58:18 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA03688 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 23:58:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMgtT-0003Le-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 23:58:16 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMgtT-0003Lb-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 23:58:15 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMgtF-0003aY-N4; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 23:58:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMgsK-0003ZZ-QW for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 23:57:04 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA03628 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 23:56:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMgsI-0003Jx-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 23:57:02 -0500 Received: from 283-11.cs.ucr.edu ([138.23.199.161]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMgsH-0003JE-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 23:57:01 -0500 Received: from 283-11.cs.ucr.edu (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by 283-11.cs.ucr.edu (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hAK4tgX3002283; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 20:55:42 -0800 Received: from localhost (zye@localhost) by 283-11.cs.ucr.edu (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id hAK1OtrM021057; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 17:24:56 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: 283-11.cs.ucr.edu: zye owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 17:24:55 -0800 (PST) From: "Zhenqiang(Frank) Ye" To: Peter Pham cc: MANET Subject: Re: [manet] Question regarding Mobility In-Reply-To: <3FBC12F3.2010808@spri.levels.unisa.edu.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , On Thu, 20 Nov 2003, Peter Pham wrote: > Hi all > I am interested in modelling ad hoc networks. In the stationary scenario > (nodes do not move), I can assume that the mobile nodes are distributed > randomly according to Poisson distribution (many assumed so). However, What do you mean Poission distribution? Thanks, Frank > is this assumption still valid under the mobility ? > Can anyone give me some advice ? > > Peter Pham > > > > _______________________________________________ > manet mailing list > manet@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet > -- **************************************** Zhenqiang(Frank) Ye Ph.D Student Department of Electrical Engineering University of California, Riverside Phone: (909)-787-2434 email: zye@cs.ucr.edu **************************************** _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Nov 20 04:35:38 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA26604 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 04:35:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMlDc-0004Rc-PB for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 04:35:21 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAK9ZKJT016896 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 04:35:20 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMlDb-0004OR-2T for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 04:35:19 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA26581 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 04:35:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMlDY-0007Rl-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 04:35:17 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMlDY-0007Ri-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 04:35:16 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMlDL-0004MT-KY; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 04:35:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMlCp-0004LC-1r for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 04:34:31 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA26571 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 04:34:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMlCn-0007RR-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 04:34:29 -0500 Received: from tokyo.netlab.nec.de ([195.37.70.2] helo=tokyo.ccrle.nec.de) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMlCm-0007R0-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 04:34:28 -0500 Received: from venus.office (venus.office [10.1.1.11]) by tokyo.ccrle.nec.de (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAK9XvCx008807 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 10:33:58 +0100 (CET) Received: from [10.0.1.12] (girao.office [10.1.1.176]) by venus.office (Postfix on SuSE Linux eMail Server 3.0) with ESMTP id 36FC214CFB for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 10:33:57 +0100 (CET) From: Joao Girao To: manet@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-VbMX6tfpBgg0xndOHTea" Organization: Network Laboratories Heidelberg Message-Id: <1069320859.23154.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.2.4 Date: 20 Nov 2003 10:34:20 +0100 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Subject: [manet] SAODV - signature Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , --=-VbMX6tfpBgg0xndOHTea Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, According to draft-guerrero-manet-saodv-00, in the signature for the extension, some fields of the extension itself are also signed. These normally include the Length of the extension. The Length of the extension is calculated as the size of the extension except the type and length fields. (according to the rfc) My question is simple: If the signature is variable in length and depends on the data, how can we sign over the length field of the extension which depends on the same signature we are producing? Depending on the algorithm being used, it can be impossible to predict a multiple of 4 bytes for the size of the signature. Should length be zeroed out for signature calculation? Thanks in advance, joao girao --=20 Jo=C3=A3o Gir=C3=A3o (Joao.Girao@ccrle.nec.de) NEC Europe Ltd., Network Laboratories Tel. (+49) 6221 90511-17 Fax: (+49) 6221 90511-55 --=-VbMX6tfpBgg0xndOHTea Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQA/vIqazT+O0HlWj/8RAgroAJ4/EZ3QQglnI/qqBMDwIriDVQs9mwCfeWoC Gpx4R42lD0gBAy+jHep+WIw= =gQDW -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-VbMX6tfpBgg0xndOHTea-- _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Nov 20 05:04:37 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA27307 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 05:04:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMlfg-0005fx-7L for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 05:04:20 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAKA4KgW021816 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 05:04:20 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMlfe-0005fk-Nc for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 05:04:18 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA27294 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 05:04:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMlfc-0007ld-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 05:04:16 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMlfc-0007la-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 05:04:16 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMlfP-0005bc-9t; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 05:04:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMler-0005bA-DJ for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 05:03:29 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA27281 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 05:03:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMleo-0007lA-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 05:03:26 -0500 Received: from tom.upf.es ([193.145.39.17]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMleo-0007l7-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 05:03:26 -0500 Received: from tom.upf.es (tom.upf.es [127.0.0.1]) by tom.upf.es (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAKA3PxP003808 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:03:25 +0100 Received: from upf.edu (efpc396.upf.es [193.145.45.186]) by tom.upf.es (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAKA3O2e003801; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:03:24 +0100 Message-ID: <3FBC9127.7030608@upf.edu> Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:02:15 +0100 From: Manel Guerrero User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030727 Thunderbird/0.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Joao Girao CC: manet@ietf.org Subject: Re: [manet] SAODV - signature References: <1069320859.23154.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> In-Reply-To: <1069320859.23154.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Joao, The size of the signature has variable length because different algorithms to generate signatures might generate signatures of different length. Anyway, when you generate an SAODV message you know which algorithm you are gonna use and, therefore, what is gonna be the length of the signature. Then, it is not a problem at all to calculate the length field before calculating the signature. Hope this helps, Manel Guerrero Joao Girao wrote: > Hello, > > According to draft-guerrero-manet-saodv-00, in the signature for the > extension, some fields of the extension itself are also signed. These > normally include the Length of the extension. > > The Length of the extension is calculated as the size of the extension > except the type and length fields. (according to the rfc) > > My question is simple: If the signature is variable in length and > depends on the data, how can we sign over the length field of the > extension which depends on the same signature we are producing? > Depending on the algorithm being used, it can be impossible to predict a > multiple of 4 bytes for the size of the signature. > > Should length be zeroed out for signature calculation? > > Thanks in advance, > > joao girao > _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Nov 20 05:07:32 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA27420 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 05:07:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMliR-00063F-Jk for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 05:07:15 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAKA7BTU023244 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 05:07:11 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMliP-00062h-Aa for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 05:07:09 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA27377 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 05:06:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMliM-00000K-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 05:07:07 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMliM-00000H-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 05:07:06 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMliI-0005v6-5q; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 05:07:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMli2-0005ue-Hi for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 05:06:46 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA27372 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 05:06:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMli0-0007nl-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 05:06:44 -0500 Received: from mail11.ntu.edu.sg ([155.69.5.163]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMlhz-0007nX-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 05:06:43 -0500 Received: from mail01.student.main.ntu.edu.sg ([155.69.5.165]) by mail11.ntu.edu.sg with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5576); Thu, 20 Nov 2003 18:00:42 +0800 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Subject: RE: [manet] SAODV - signature X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.6944.0 Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 18:00:41 +0800 Message-ID: <34C4FA35021357469685D8102806A1C06F86D5@mail01.student.main.ntu.edu.sg> Thread-Topic: [manet] SAODV - signature Thread-Index: AcOvSa6J6YUlK6XMTs6GW8lS1fzkQAAAkqlQ From: "#ZHOU ZHI#" To: "Joao Girao" Cc: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Nov 2003 10:00:42.0097 (UTC) FILETIME=[285C0E10:01C3AF4D] Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 ZG8geW91IG1lYW4gdGhlIHNpZ25hdHVyZSBzaXplIGRlcGVuZHMgb24gdGhlIGNvbnRlbnQgb2Yg dGhlICJMZW5ndGgiIGZpZWxkPyANCklmIHlvdSBjYWxjdWxhdGUgc2lnbmF0dXJlIG92ZXIganVz dCBhbnkgc2luZ2xlIGJ5dGUgb2YgZGF0YSwgd2lsbCB5b3VyIHNpZ25hdHVyZSBzaXplIGJlIHRo ZSBmaXhlZD8gDQoNCi0tLS0tT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZS0tLS0tDQpGcm9tOiBtYW5ldC1hZG1p bkBpZXRmLm9yZyBbbWFpbHRvOm1hbmV0LWFkbWluQGlldGYub3JnXSBPbiBCZWhhbGYgT2YgSm9h byBHaXJhbw0KU2VudDogMjAwM+W5tDEx5pyIMjDml6UgMTc6MzQNClRvOiBtYW5ldEBpZXRmLm9y Zw0KU3ViamVjdDogW21hbmV0XSBTQU9EViAtIHNpZ25hdHVyZQ0KDQpIZWxsbywNCg0KQWNjb3Jk aW5nIHRvIGRyYWZ0LWd1ZXJyZXJvLW1hbmV0LXNhb2R2LTAwLCBpbiB0aGUgc2lnbmF0dXJlIGZv ciB0aGUgZXh0ZW5zaW9uLCBzb21lIGZpZWxkcyBvZiB0aGUgZXh0ZW5zaW9uIGl0c2VsZiBhcmUg YWxzbyBzaWduZWQuIFRoZXNlIG5vcm1hbGx5IGluY2x1ZGUgdGhlIExlbmd0aCBvZiB0aGUgZXh0 ZW5zaW9uLg0KDQpUaGUgTGVuZ3RoIG9mIHRoZSBleHRlbnNpb24gaXMgY2FsY3VsYXRlZCBhcyB0 aGUgc2l6ZSBvZiB0aGUgZXh0ZW5zaW9uIGV4Y2VwdCB0aGUgdHlwZSBhbmQgbGVuZ3RoIGZpZWxk cy4gKGFjY29yZGluZyB0byB0aGUgcmZjKQ0KDQpNeSBxdWVzdGlvbiBpcyBzaW1wbGU6IElmIHRo ZSBzaWduYXR1cmUgaXMgdmFyaWFibGUgaW4gbGVuZ3RoIGFuZCBkZXBlbmRzIG9uIHRoZSBkYXRh LCBob3cgY2FuIHdlIHNpZ24gb3ZlciB0aGUgbGVuZ3RoIGZpZWxkIG9mIHRoZSBleHRlbnNpb24g d2hpY2ggZGVwZW5kcyBvbiB0aGUgc2FtZSBzaWduYXR1cmUgd2UgYXJlIHByb2R1Y2luZz8NCkRl cGVuZGluZyBvbiB0aGUgYWxnb3JpdGhtIGJlaW5nIHVzZWQsIGl0IGNhbiBiZSBpbXBvc3NpYmxl IHRvIHByZWRpY3QgYSBtdWx0aXBsZSBvZiA0IGJ5dGVzIGZvciB0aGUgc2l6ZSBvZiB0aGUgc2ln bmF0dXJlLg0KDQpTaG91bGQgbGVuZ3RoIGJlIHplcm9lZCBvdXQgZm9yIHNpZ25hdHVyZSBjYWxj dWxhdGlvbj8NCg0KVGhhbmtzIGluIGFkdmFuY2UsDQoNCmpvYW8gZ2lyYW8NCg0KLS0NCkpvw6Nv IEdpcsOjbyAoSm9hby5HaXJhb0BjY3JsZS5uZWMuZGUpDQpORUMgRXVyb3BlIEx0ZC4sIE5ldHdv cmsgTGFib3JhdG9yaWVzDQpUZWwuICgrNDkpIDYyMjEgOTA1MTEtMTcNCkZheDogKCs0OSkgNjIy MSA5MDUxMS01NQ0K _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Nov 20 07:46:30 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA02184 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 07:46:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMoCK-0005zM-5b for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 07:46:12 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAKCkCqn023016 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 07:46:12 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMoCK-0005z9-1e for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 07:46:12 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA02162 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 07:45:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMoCJ-0002DH-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 07:46:11 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMoCI-0002DE-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 07:46:10 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMoC9-0005xy-81; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 07:46:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMoC0-0005xd-0a for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 07:45:52 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA02148 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 07:45:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMoBz-0002Cp-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 07:45:51 -0500 Received: from web25206.mail.ukl.yahoo.com ([217.12.10.66]) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMoBy-0002CS-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 07:45:50 -0500 Message-ID: <20031120124514.77819.qmail@web25206.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Received: from [193.95.41.229] by web25206.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 13:45:14 CET Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 13:45:14 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?xavier=20manavite?= Subject: Re: [manet] stochastic distribution To: manet@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-898362919-1069332314=:77310" Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , --0-898362919-1069332314=:77310 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ietf.org id HAA02149 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi sanjay, =20 Wellcome to group. =20 I think there are to problem to resolve : 1- Finding a mecanism to distribute probabilities to attain a destination= : using intelligent swarms is proposed in "A probabilistic Emergent Rout= ing Algorithm for Mobile Ad Hoc Networks" (you can find it with Google) or using a basic routing protocol to dissiminate probability informations= (this necessite choosing an adapted routing protocol) if there is any other mecanism it will be wellcome. =20 2- How to determine probabilities : I think that the idea proposed in "MP= -DSR A QoS-aware Multi-path Dynamic Source Routing protocol for Wireless = Ad Hoc Networks" is adapted if we add to it a probability corresponding t= o intermediate nodes witch depends on energy level, connectivity (number = of neighbors) and traffic. =20 sanjay.ramaswamy@ndsu.nodak.edu wrote: Hi Xavier, I was also thinking of applying stochastic approach to find, and maintain reliable routes in MANETs. Yes, I would be intersted in joining the group. Add me to your list. Sanjay > Hi every body, > > What do you think about using a stochastic distributions associated wit= h > routing table : so, to eatch destination the source have more than one > entry with different probabilities (the node S can reach the node D > through node1 with probabilty P1 and reach the same node D through node= 2 > with probabilty P2). > > Using a stochastic distributions will improve, or not, scalability to > mobility and network size ? > > there is any metric witch contabilise the overhead when we use a > stochastic distribution? > > If there is any work related to this topic, please indicate it to me ? > if there is any one interested to this topic i will be very gratefull t= o > establish a workgroup to develop this them ? > > > > --------------------------------- > Do You Yahoo!? -- Une adresse @yahoo.fr gratuite et en fran=E7ais ! > Testez le nouveau Yahoo! Mail --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? -- Une adresse @yahoo.fr gratuite et en fran=E7ais ! Testez le nouveau Yahoo! Mail --0-898362919-1069332314=:77310 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ietf.org id HAA02149 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi sanjay,
 
Wellcome to group.
 
I think there are to problem to resolve :
1- Finding a mecanism to distribute probabilities to attain a destin= ation : using intelligent swarms is proposed in "A probabilistic Emergent= Routing Algorithm for Mobile Ad Hoc Networks" (you can find it with Goog= le)
or using a basic routing protocol to dissiminate probability informa= tions (this necessite choosing an adapted routing protocol)
if there is any other mecanism it will be wellcome.
 
2- How to determine probabilities : I think that the idea proposed i= n "MP-DSR A QoS-aware Multi-path Dynamic Source Routing protocol for Wire= less Ad Hoc Networks" is adapted if we add to it a probability correspond= ing to intermediate nodes witch depends on energy level, connectivit= y (number of neighbors) and traffic.
 

sanjay.ramaswamy@ndsu.nodak.edu wrote:
Hi Xavier,

I was also thinking of = applying stochastic approach to find, and maintain
reliable routes in = MANETs. Yes, I would be intersted in joining the group.
Add me to your= list.

Sanjay

> Hi every body,
>
> What do y= ou think about using a stochastic distributions associated with
> r= outing table : so, to eatch destination the source have more than one
= > entry with different probabilities (the node S can reach the node D<= BR>> through node1 with probabilty P1 and reach the same node D throug= h node2
> with probabilty P2).
>
> Using a stochastic d= istributions will improve, or not, scalability to
> mobility and ne= twork size ?
>
> there is any metric witch contabilise the ov= erhead when we use a
> stochastic distribution?
>
> If = there is any work related to this topic, please indicate it to me ?
> if there is any one interested to this topic= i will be very gratefull to
> establish a workgroup to develop thi= s them ?
>
>
>
> --------------------------------= -
> Do You Yahoo!? -- Une adresse @yahoo.fr gratuite et en fran=E7a= is !
> Testez le nouveau Yahoo! Mail




Do You Yahoo!? -- Une adresse @yahoo= .fr gratuite et en fran=E7ais !
Testez le nouveau Yahoo! Mail --0-898362919-1069332314=:77310-- _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Nov 20 07:54:32 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA02423 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 07:54:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMoK3-0006ZH-Sm for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 07:54:14 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAKCsB4K025243 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 07:54:11 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMoK3-0006Z4-Mc for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 07:54:11 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA02394 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 07:53:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMoK2-0002L9-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 07:54:10 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMoK2-0002L6-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 07:54:10 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMoJt-0006V0-IF; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 07:54:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMoJ5-0006TD-Da for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 07:53:12 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA02378 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 07:52:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMoJ4-0002KW-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 07:53:10 -0500 Received: from tokyo.netlab.nec.de ([195.37.70.2] helo=tokyo.ccrle.nec.de) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMoJ3-0002JV-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 07:53:09 -0500 Received: from tokyo.ccrle.nec.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tokyo.ccrle.nec.de (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAKCqXD1018765 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 13:52:34 +0100 (CET) Received: (from defang@localhost) by tokyo.ccrle.nec.de (8.12.10/8.12.8/Submit) id hAKCp6hn018743 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 13:51:06 +0100 (CET) X-Authentication-Warning: tokyo.ccrle.nec.de: defang set sender to using -f Received: from venus.office (venus.office [10.1.1.11]) by pluto.office (8.12.9/8.12.9+MIMEDefang) with ESMTP id hAKCp4Cx018741; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 13:51:06 +0100 (CET) Received: from [10.0.1.12] (girao.office [10.1.1.176]) by venus.office (Postfix on SuSE Linux eMail Server 3.0) with ESMTP id 8F654E0132; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 13:51:03 +0100 (CET) Subject: RE: [manet] SAODV - signature From: Joao Girao To: #ZHOU ZHI# Cc: manet@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <34C4FA35021357469685D8102806A1C06F86D5@mail01.student.main.ntu.edu.sg> References: <34C4FA35021357469685D8102806A1C06F86D5@mail01.student.main.ntu.edu.sg> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-LmuFl7896iaFzV+gj5jY" Organization: Network Laboratories Heidelberg Message-Id: <1069332685.23148.30.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.2.4 Date: 20 Nov 2003 13:51:26 +0100 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , --=-LmuFl7896iaFzV+gj5jY Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable That's exactly what I meant. For the same digest size, the signature size can be different depending on the contents. On Thu, 2003-11-20 at 11:00, #ZHOU ZHI# wrote: > do you mean the signature size depends on the content of the "Length" fie= ld?=20 > If you calculate signature over just any single byte of data, will your s= ignature size be the fixed?=20 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: manet-admin@ietf.org [mailto:manet-admin@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Joa= o Girao > Sent: 2003=E5=B9=B411=E6=9C=8820=E6=97=A5 17:34 > To: manet@ietf.org > Subject: [manet] SAODV - signature >=20 > Hello, >=20 > According to draft-guerrero-manet-saodv-00, in the signature for the exte= nsion, some fields of the extension itself are also signed. These normally = include the Length of the extension. >=20 > The Length of the extension is calculated as the size of the extension ex= cept the type and length fields. (according to the rfc) >=20 > My question is simple: If the signature is variable in length and depends= on the data, how can we sign over the length field of the extension which = depends on the same signature we are producing? > Depending on the algorithm being used, it can be impossible to predict a = multiple of 4 bytes for the size of the signature. >=20 > Should length be zeroed out for signature calculation? >=20 > Thanks in advance, >=20 > joao girao >=20 > -- > Jo=C3=A3o Gir=C3=A3o (Joao.Girao@ccrle.nec.de) > NEC Europe Ltd., Network Laboratories > Tel. (+49) 6221 90511-17 > Fax: (+49) 6221 90511-55 --=20 Jo=C3=A3o Gir=C3=A3o (Joao.Girao@ccrle.nec.de) NEC Europe Ltd., Network Laboratories Tel. (+49) 6221 90511-17 Fax: (+49) 6221 90511-55 --=-LmuFl7896iaFzV+gj5jY Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQA/vLjNzT+O0HlWj/8RArVVAJ9n2qKcOrkc5dxLSh4o7LjV/9dBfgCeIm9Y 7P7KV9mVorz/AbbZ428wAK0= =/E/F -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-LmuFl7896iaFzV+gj5jY-- _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Nov 20 08:04:41 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA02711 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 08:04:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMoTv-00077m-Em for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 08:04:23 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAKD4NJf027380 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 08:04:23 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMoTv-00077X-Az for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 08:04:23 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA02693 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 08:04:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMoTu-0002U2-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 08:04:22 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMoTu-0002Ty-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 08:04:22 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMoTZ-0006zk-AC; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 08:04:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMoTJ-0006zB-7Q for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 08:03:45 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA02676 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 08:03:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMoTI-0002TV-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 08:03:44 -0500 Received: from mail11.ntu.edu.sg ([155.69.5.163]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMoTH-0002TK-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 08:03:43 -0500 Received: from mail01.student.main.ntu.edu.sg ([155.69.5.165]) by mail11.ntu.edu.sg with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5576); Thu, 20 Nov 2003 21:02:49 +0800 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Subject: RE: [manet] SAODV - signature X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.6944.0 Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 21:02:47 +0800 Message-ID: <34C4FA35021357469685D8102806A1C06F86DE@mail01.student.main.ntu.edu.sg> Thread-Topic: [manet] SAODV - signature Thread-Index: AcOvZTADEDUxMQCCTbeEmig84ROo9QAAF6lw From: "#ZHOU ZHI#" To: "Joao Girao" Cc: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Nov 2003 13:02:49.0213 (UTC) FILETIME=[996DA2D0:01C3AF66] Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SSBhbSBub3Qgc3VyZSBhYm91dCB0aGUgYWR2YW50YWdlcyBvZiB0aGlzIGtpbmQgb2Ygc2lnbmF0 dXJlIHNjaGVtZSBiZWNhdXNlIGFzIE1hbmVsIEd1ZXJyZXJvIHNhaWQsIHRoZXJlIGRvIGV4aXN0 IHNvbWUgc2lnbmF0dXJlIHNjaGVtZXMgbWFraW5nIGxpZmUgZWFzeS4gRnVydGhlcm1vcmUsIGZy b20gdGhlIGNyeXB0b2dyYXBoaWMgcG9pbnQgb2YgdmlldywgdGhpcyBwcm9wZXJ0eSBtYXkgYmUg dW5kZXNpcmFibGUgYmVjYXVzZSBjb250ZW50cyBhcmUgcmVsYXRlZCB0byB0aGUgZmluYWwgc2ln bmF0dXJlIHNpemUsIHdoaWNoIGdpdmVzIGhpbnRzIGZvciBjcmFja2luZy4gDQoNCg0KLS0tLS1P cmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlLS0tLS0NCkZyb206IEpvYW8gR2lyYW8gW21haWx0bzpKb2FvLkdpcmFv QGNjcmxlLm5lYy5kZV0gDQpTZW50OiAyMDAz5bm0MTHmnIgyMOaXpSAyMDo1MQ0KVG86ICNaSE9V IFpISSMNCkNjOiBtYW5ldEBpZXRmLm9yZw0KU3ViamVjdDogUkU6IFttYW5ldF0gU0FPRFYgLSBz aWduYXR1cmUNCg0KVGhhdCdzIGV4YWN0bHkgd2hhdCBJIG1lYW50Lg0KRm9yIHRoZSBzYW1lIGRp Z2VzdCBzaXplLCB0aGUgc2lnbmF0dXJlIHNpemUgY2FuIGJlIGRpZmZlcmVudCBkZXBlbmRpbmcg b24gdGhlIGNvbnRlbnRzLg0KDQoNCk9uIFRodSwgMjAwMy0xMS0yMCBhdCAxMTowMCwgI1pIT1Ug WkhJIyB3cm90ZToNCj4gZG8geW91IG1lYW4gdGhlIHNpZ25hdHVyZSBzaXplIGRlcGVuZHMgb24g dGhlIGNvbnRlbnQgb2YgdGhlICJMZW5ndGgiIGZpZWxkPyANCj4gSWYgeW91IGNhbGN1bGF0ZSBz aWduYXR1cmUgb3ZlciBqdXN0IGFueSBzaW5nbGUgYnl0ZSBvZiBkYXRhLCB3aWxsIHlvdXIgc2ln bmF0dXJlIHNpemUgYmUgdGhlIGZpeGVkPyANCj4gDQo+IC0tLS0tT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZS0t LS0tDQo+IEZyb206IG1hbmV0LWFkbWluQGlldGYub3JnIFttYWlsdG86bWFuZXQtYWRtaW5AaWV0 Zi5vcmddIE9uIEJlaGFsZiBPZiANCj4gSm9hbyBHaXJhbw0KPiBTZW50OiAyMDAz5bm0MTHmnIgy MOaXpSAxNzozNA0KPiBUbzogbWFuZXRAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCj4gU3ViamVjdDogW21hbmV0XSBTQU9E ViAtIHNpZ25hdHVyZQ0KPiANCj4gSGVsbG8sDQo+IA0KPiBBY2NvcmRpbmcgdG8gZHJhZnQtZ3Vl cnJlcm8tbWFuZXQtc2FvZHYtMDAsIGluIHRoZSBzaWduYXR1cmUgZm9yIHRoZSBleHRlbnNpb24s IHNvbWUgZmllbGRzIG9mIHRoZSBleHRlbnNpb24gaXRzZWxmIGFyZSBhbHNvIHNpZ25lZC4gVGhl c2Ugbm9ybWFsbHkgaW5jbHVkZSB0aGUgTGVuZ3RoIG9mIHRoZSBleHRlbnNpb24uDQo+IA0KPiBU aGUgTGVuZ3RoIG9mIHRoZSBleHRlbnNpb24gaXMgY2FsY3VsYXRlZCBhcyB0aGUgc2l6ZSBvZiB0 aGUgZXh0ZW5zaW9uIA0KPiBleGNlcHQgdGhlIHR5cGUgYW5kIGxlbmd0aCBmaWVsZHMuIChhY2Nv cmRpbmcgdG8gdGhlIHJmYykNCj4gDQo+IE15IHF1ZXN0aW9uIGlzIHNpbXBsZTogSWYgdGhlIHNp Z25hdHVyZSBpcyB2YXJpYWJsZSBpbiBsZW5ndGggYW5kIGRlcGVuZHMgb24gdGhlIGRhdGEsIGhv dyBjYW4gd2Ugc2lnbiBvdmVyIHRoZSBsZW5ndGggZmllbGQgb2YgdGhlIGV4dGVuc2lvbiB3aGlj aCBkZXBlbmRzIG9uIHRoZSBzYW1lIHNpZ25hdHVyZSB3ZSBhcmUgcHJvZHVjaW5nPw0KPiBEZXBl bmRpbmcgb24gdGhlIGFsZ29yaXRobSBiZWluZyB1c2VkLCBpdCBjYW4gYmUgaW1wb3NzaWJsZSB0 byBwcmVkaWN0IGEgbXVsdGlwbGUgb2YgNCBieXRlcyBmb3IgdGhlIHNpemUgb2YgdGhlIHNpZ25h dHVyZS4NCj4gDQo+IFNob3VsZCBsZW5ndGggYmUgemVyb2VkIG91dCBmb3Igc2lnbmF0dXJlIGNh bGN1bGF0aW9uPw0KPiANCj4gVGhhbmtzIGluIGFkdmFuY2UsDQo+IA0KPiBqb2FvIGdpcmFvDQo+ IA0KPiAtLQ0KPiBKb8OjbyBHaXLDo28gKEpvYW8uR2lyYW9AY2NybGUubmVjLmRlKQ0KPiBORUMg RXVyb3BlIEx0ZC4sIE5ldHdvcmsgTGFib3JhdG9yaWVzDQo+IFRlbC4gKCs0OSkgNjIyMSA5MDUx MS0xNw0KPiBGYXg6ICgrNDkpIDYyMjEgOTA1MTEtNTUNCi0tDQpKb8OjbyBHaXLDo28gKEpvYW8u R2lyYW9AY2NybGUubmVjLmRlKQ0KTkVDIEV1cm9wZSBMdGQuLCBOZXR3b3JrIExhYm9yYXRvcmll cw0KVGVsLiAoKzQ5KSA2MjIxIDkwNTExLTE3DQpGYXg6ICgrNDkpIDYyMjEgOTA1MTEtNTUNCg== _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Nov 20 08:12:31 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA02908 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 08:12:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMobV-0007nM-PH for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 08:12:13 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAKDCDb6029964 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 08:12:13 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMobV-0007nD-IB for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 08:12:13 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA02899 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 08:12:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMobU-0002Zc-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 08:12:12 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMobU-0002ZZ-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 08:12:12 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMobJ-0007g9-KR; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 08:12:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMob8-0007fo-4M for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 08:11:50 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA02896 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 08:11:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMob7-0002ZT-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 08:11:49 -0500 Received: from tokyo.netlab.nec.de ([195.37.70.2] helo=tokyo.ccrle.nec.de) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMob6-0002ZP-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 08:11:48 -0500 Received: from tokyo.ccrle.nec.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tokyo.ccrle.nec.de (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAKDBGD1019547 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 14:11:17 +0100 (CET) Received: (from defang@localhost) by tokyo.ccrle.nec.de (8.12.10/8.12.8/Submit) id hAKDBClp019544 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 14:11:12 +0100 (CET) X-Authentication-Warning: tokyo.ccrle.nec.de: defang set sender to using -f Received: from venus.office (venus.office [10.1.1.11]) by pluto.office (8.12.9/8.12.9+MIMEDefang) with ESMTP id hAKDBCCx019542; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 14:11:12 +0100 (CET) Received: from [10.0.1.12] (girao.office [10.1.1.176]) by venus.office (Postfix on SuSE Linux eMail Server 3.0) with ESMTP id 2DE22D37DB; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 14:11:11 +0100 (CET) Subject: RE: [manet] SAODV - signature From: Joao Girao To: #ZHOU ZHI# Cc: manet@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <34C4FA35021357469685D8102806A1C06F86DE@mail01.student.main.ntu.edu.sg> References: <34C4FA35021357469685D8102806A1C06F86DE@mail01.student.main.ntu.edu.sg> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-zgFOY92QhiQ8YlBjBNF4" Organization: Network Laboratories Heidelberg Message-Id: <1069333893.23153.37.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.2.4 Date: 20 Nov 2003 14:11:34 +0100 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.35 Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , --=-zgFOY92QhiQ8YlBjBNF4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Well, ok. My approach will then be to calculate a maximum signature size and use that to calculate de length to be signed. That should fall well with other encryption schemes in which the size of the future signature is known in advanced. Thank you for your help, joao girao On Thu, 2003-11-20 at 14:02, #ZHOU ZHI# wrote: > I am not sure about the advantages of this kind of signature scheme becau= se as Manel Guerrero said, there do exist some signature schemes making lif= e easy. Furthermore, from the cryptographic point of view, this property ma= y be undesirable because contents are related to the final signature size, = which gives hints for cracking.=20 >=20 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Joao Girao [mailto:Joao.Girao@ccrle.nec.de]=20 > Sent: 2003=E5=B9=B411=E6=9C=8820=E6=97=A5 20:51 > To: #ZHOU ZHI# > Cc: manet@ietf.org > Subject: RE: [manet] SAODV - signature >=20 > That's exactly what I meant. > For the same digest size, the signature size can be different depending o= n the contents. >=20 >=20 > On Thu, 2003-11-20 at 11:00, #ZHOU ZHI# wrote: > > do you mean the signature size depends on the content of the "Length" f= ield?=20 > > If you calculate signature over just any single byte of data, will your= signature size be the fixed?=20 > >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: manet-admin@ietf.org [mailto:manet-admin@ietf.org] On Behalf Of=20 > > Joao Girao > > Sent: 2003=E5=B9=B411=E6=9C=8820=E6=97=A5 17:34 > > To: manet@ietf.org > > Subject: [manet] SAODV - signature > >=20 > > Hello, > >=20 > > According to draft-guerrero-manet-saodv-00, in the signature for the ex= tension, some fields of the extension itself are also signed. These normall= y include the Length of the extension. > >=20 > > The Length of the extension is calculated as the size of the extension=20 > > except the type and length fields. (according to the rfc) > >=20 > > My question is simple: If the signature is variable in length and depen= ds on the data, how can we sign over the length field of the extension whic= h depends on the same signature we are producing? > > Depending on the algorithm being used, it can be impossible to predict = a multiple of 4 bytes for the size of the signature. > >=20 > > Should length be zeroed out for signature calculation? > >=20 > > Thanks in advance, > >=20 > > joao girao > >=20 > > -- > > Jo=C3=A3o Gir=C3=A3o (Joao.Girao@ccrle.nec.de) > > NEC Europe Ltd., Network Laboratories > > Tel. (+49) 6221 90511-17 > > Fax: (+49) 6221 90511-55 > -- > Jo=C3=A3o Gir=C3=A3o (Joao.Girao@ccrle.nec.de) > NEC Europe Ltd., Network Laboratories > Tel. (+49) 6221 90511-17 > Fax: (+49) 6221 90511-55 --=20 Jo=C3=A3o Gir=C3=A3o (Joao.Girao@ccrle.nec.de) NEC Europe Ltd., Network Laboratories Tel. (+49) 6221 90511-17 Fax: (+49) 6221 90511-55 --=-zgFOY92QhiQ8YlBjBNF4 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQA/vL2FzT+O0HlWj/8RAu6WAJ0VY8ilB+OlP6FA9jHoXhkonu3tsQCg7jjX wVCrxhzi8y1GAGA2iv1dEP8= =LUsf -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-zgFOY92QhiQ8YlBjBNF4-- _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Nov 20 08:19:46 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA03089 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 08:19:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMoiU-0008MQ-Sc for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 08:19:28 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAKDJQ85032098 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 08:19:26 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMoiS-0008Lc-Mk for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 08:19:24 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA03070 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 08:19:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMoiR-0002ft-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 08:19:23 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMoiQ-0002f1-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 08:19:22 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMoh7-00084M-Vq; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 08:18:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMogw-00082w-9B for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 08:17:50 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA03042 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 08:17:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMogu-0002el-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 08:17:49 -0500 Received: from concorde.inria.fr ([192.93.2.39]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMogu-0002e8-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 08:17:48 -0500 Received: from zephyrin (byzantium.inria.fr [128.93.17.6]) by concorde.inria.fr (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id hAKDGb105500; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 14:16:37 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <00ab01c3af68$6baa7a60$1f175d80@inria.fr> From: "Philippe Jacquet" To: "Peter Pham" , "MANET" References: <3FBC12F3.2010808@spri.levels.unisa.edu.au> Subject: Re: [manet] Question regarding Mobility Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 14:15:49 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yes, Peter, the distribution changes if you introduce mobility and it depends on the mobility model. Take the random way point model where each node has a distinct a random destination point selected uniformly in a square, and each node moves to this destination at constant speed. In this case, the stationary density at point (x,y) (assuming a 1x1 square) is *( x* log x+(1-x)*log(1-x))*(y*log y +(1-y)*log(1-y)) which differs from uniform density (which is equal to 1 at any point in the 1x1 square). Philippe ----- Original Message ----- From: Peter Pham To: MANET Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 2:03 AM Subject: [manet] Question regarding Mobility > Hi all > I am interested in modelling ad hoc networks. In the stationary scenario > (nodes do not move), I can assume that the mobile nodes are distributed > randomly according to Poisson distribution (many assumed so). However, > is this assumption still valid under the mobility ? > Can anyone give me some advice ? > > Peter Pham > > > > _______________________________________________ > manet mailing list > manet@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Nov 20 08:20:45 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA03136 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 08:20:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMojS-0008T3-DF for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 08:20:27 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAKDKQ4n032543 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 08:20:26 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMojS-0008So-5e for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 08:20:26 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA03114 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 08:20:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMojR-0002gu-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 08:20:25 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMojQ-0002gr-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 08:20:24 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMoj5-0008Nz-74; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 08:20:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMoiY-0008N9-QV for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 08:19:30 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA03081 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 08:19:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMoiS-0002g5-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 08:19:24 -0500 Received: from london.unik.no ([193.156.97.32]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMoiS-0002er-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 08:19:24 -0500 Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 14:17:50 +0100 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: Transport protocols in wireless, mobile networks thread-index: AcOvaLLJ3Uvw1ia9RXq2SJiSgZWeGA== From: "Andreas Hafslund" To: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [manet] Transport protocols in wireless, mobile networks Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Is there any good work/paper that analyzes transport protocols in = wireless, mobile networks? Such as using TCP or TCP with some specific = wireless enhancements? Or maybe someone has a different, good solution = for this problem? I would appreciate links to papers or other sources. Regards, Andreas Hafslund UniK - Universty Graduate Center Norway _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Nov 20 09:36:33 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA06221 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 09:36:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMpuo-0006Cp-6k for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 09:36:16 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAKEaESK023854 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 09:36:14 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMpuo-0006Cf-1x for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 09:36:14 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA06197 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 09:36:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMpul-0003t0-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 09:36:11 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMpul-0003sx-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 09:36:11 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMpuc-00068b-B9; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 09:36:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMptt-0005zI-MG for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 09:35:17 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA06161 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 09:35:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMptr-0003sM-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 09:35:15 -0500 Received: from csiges9.insa-lyon.fr ([134.214.79.200] helo=mail.insa-lyon.fr) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMptr-0003rx-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 09:35:15 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail.insa-lyon.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E0364B4B7; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 15:34:41 +0100 (CET) Received: from [134.214.144.152] (ares-chaudet-1.insa-lyon.fr [134.214.144.152]) by mail.insa-lyon.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6AD5B4B48A; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 15:34:40 +0100 (CET) In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v606) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: manet@ietf.org From: Claude Chaudet Subject: Re: [manet] Simulating 802.11b and g Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 15:34:41 +0100 To: "Frank Li" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.606) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd 0.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Frank, In fact I hesitated about using the "receiver sensivity" parameter of=20 the card as the carrier sense threshold or as the minimum power needed to understand a frame (Rx=20 threshold). I chose to use it as a carrier sense threshold as the range in ns, using these=20 values, almost corresponded to the range advertised for "open office" in the Avaya specification. For the capture threshold, that's true, that is not the SNR. Sorry for=20= this confusion. But apart from NS or a particular simulator, I am still looking for=20 realistic values for these parameters. I don't know what is needed in a simulator to model the physical layer=20= accurately enough. The parameters used in NS are important, but are they enough ? For=20 example, a different set of values would be needed for each transmission rate /=20 physical layer coding, especially considering that different parts of 802.11 frames are=20 transmitted at different rates. Anyway, to get back to the original question, do these PHY layer=20 parameters have a real influence on the MAC layer behavior or do they just change the communication and=20 interference ranges ? Claude. Le 18 nov. 03, =E0 13:10, Frank Li a =E9crit : > Hi Claude, > > I guess you are using two-ray model with 'receiver sensitivity' -83=20 > dBm and Tx power 15 dBm to get the following CS threshold. > > Phy/WirelessPhy set CSThresh_ 5.011872e-12 > > My question is - is it sensible to use 'receiver sensitivity' to=20 > calculate CS threshold? (Using the same calculation for -94 dBm at 1=20= > Mbps, the sensing range will be 796 m). > Furthermore, does the CS threshold mean that the PHY header can be=20 > correctly decoded if received power is above the threshold, or the=20 > channel is sensed as busy but the PHY header can NOT be decoded? > > BTW, CPThresh is the capture threshold, not required SNR to=20 > 'understand' the frame. When multiple frames are detected, the frame=20= > with strongest power (CPThresh>10) will be decoded, otherwise, all=20 > frames are discarded. > > BR > Frank Claude. _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Nov 20 10:04:40 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA07478 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 10:04:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMqM4-0000Ro-09 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 10:04:24 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAKF4NA7001714 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 10:04:23 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMqM3-0000RS-QG for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 10:04:23 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA07409 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 10:04:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMqM0-0004L9-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 10:04:20 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMqLz-0004L6-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 10:04:19 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMqLh-0000K3-FC; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 10:04:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMqL8-0000Jc-7F for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 10:03:26 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA07318 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 10:03:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMqL6-0004Kf-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 10:03:24 -0500 Received: from s2.itd.nrl.navy.mil ([132.250.83.3]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMqL5-0004KN-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 10:03:23 -0500 Received: from smtp.itd.nrl.navy.mil (smtp.itd.nrl.navy.mil [132.250.86.3]) by s2.itd.nrl.navy.mil (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.8) with SMTP id hAKF2eMs004440; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 10:02:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from SEXTANT.itd.nrl.navy.mil ([132.250.92.22]) by smtp.itd.nrl.navy.mil (SAVSMTP 3.1.2.35) with SMTP id M2003112010024708010 ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 10:02:47 -0500 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.2.20031120095954.0297bdd8@pop.itd.nrl.navy.mil> X-Sender: macker@pop.itd.nrl.navy.mil (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 10:03:06 -0500 To: "Andreas Hafslund" , From: Joe Macker Subject: Re: [manet] Transport protocols in wireless, mobile networks In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , At 08:17 AM 11/20/2003, Andreas Hafslund wrote: >Is there any good work/paper that analyzes transport protocols in wireless, mobile networks? Such as using TCP or TCP with some specific wireless enhancements? Or maybe someone has a different, good solution for this problem? There are many papers on this subject. I wouldn't want to provide an incomplete list. Check past Mobihoc, Mobicom events for one. >I would appreciate links to papers or other sources. > >Regards, >Andreas Hafslund >UniK - Universty Graduate Center >Norway > > >_______________________________________________ >manet mailing list >manet@ietf.org >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Nov 20 10:54:28 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA10309 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 10:54:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMr8F-0002zd-Qu for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 10:54:12 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAKFsBBR011499 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 10:54:11 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMr8F-0002zJ-Gj for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 10:54:11 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA10287 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 10:53:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMr8C-0004zL-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 10:54:08 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMr8C-0004zI-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 10:54:08 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMr85-0002xo-SI; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 10:54:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMr7J-0002wY-2i for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 10:53:13 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA10249 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 10:52:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMr7G-0004yY-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 10:53:10 -0500 Received: from geranium.noc.ucla.edu ([169.232.48.11]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMr7G-0004yV-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 10:53:10 -0500 Received: from cs.ucla.edu (ts13-182.dialup.bol.ucla.edu [169.232.229.129]) by geranium.noc.ucla.edu (8.12.8p2/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hAKFr4TF008656; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 07:53:05 -0800 Message-ID: <3FBCE468.9090207@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 07:57:28 -0800 From: Mineo Takai User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; WinNT4.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, ja, th MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Claude Chaudet CC: Frank Li , manet@ietf.org Subject: Re: [manet] Simulating 802.11b and g References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by geranium.noc.ucla.edu id hAKFr4TF008656 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Claude, You might be interested in one of our papers that discusses issues with=20 PHY parameters and the overall manet performance: Mineo Takai, Jay Martin and Rajive Bagrodia, "Effects of Wireless=20 Physical Layer Modeling in Mobile Ad Hoc Networks," MobiHoc 2001, pp. 87-= 94. Mineo Claude Chaudet wrote: > Hi Frank, >=20 > In fact I hesitated about using the "receiver sensivity" parameter of=20 > the card as the carrier sense > threshold or as the minimum power needed to understand a frame (Rx=20 > threshold). I chose to > use it as a carrier sense threshold as the range in ns, using these=20 > values, almost corresponded > to the range advertised for "open office" in the Avaya specification. >=20 > For the capture threshold, that's true, that is not the SNR. Sorry for=20 > this confusion. > But apart from NS or a particular simulator, I am still looking for=20 > realistic values for > these parameters. >=20 > I don't know what is needed in a simulator to model the physical layer=20 > accurately enough. > The parameters used in NS are important, but are they enough ? For=20 > example, a > different set of values would be needed for each transmission rate /=20 > physical layer coding, > especially considering that different parts of 802.11 frames are=20 > transmitted at different rates. >=20 > Anyway, to get back to the original question, do these PHY layer=20 > parameters have a real influence on > the MAC layer behavior or do they just change the communication and=20 > interference ranges ? >=20 > Claude. >=20 > Le 18 nov. 03, =E0 13:10, Frank Li a =E9crit : >=20 >> Hi Claude, >> >> I guess you are using two-ray model with 'receiver sensitivity' -83=20 >> dBm and Tx power 15 dBm to get the following CS threshold. >> >> Phy/WirelessPhy set CSThresh_ 5.011872e-12 >> >> My question is - is it sensible to use 'receiver sensitivity' to=20 >> calculate CS threshold? (Using the same calculation for -94 dBm at 1=20 >> Mbps, the sensing range will be 796 m). >> Furthermore, does the CS threshold mean that the PHY header can be=20 >> correctly decoded if received power is above the threshold, or the=20 >> channel is sensed as busy but the PHY header can NOT be decoded? >> >> BTW, CPThresh is the capture threshold, not required SNR to=20 >> 'understand' the frame. When multiple frames are detected, the frame=20 >> with strongest power (CPThresh>10) will be decoded, otherwise, all=20 >> frames are discarded. >> >> BR >> Frank >=20 > Claude. >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > manet mailing list > manet@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet >=20 _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Nov 20 11:11:27 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA11106 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:11:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMrOi-0004n9-0K for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:11:12 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAKGBBrZ018413 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:11:11 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMrOh-0004mu-SS for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:11:11 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA11086 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:10:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMrOf-0005HW-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:11:09 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMrOe-0005HT-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:11:08 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMrOY-0004iS-5t; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:11:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMrNn-0004hS-ME for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:10:15 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA11043 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:10:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMrNk-0005Gd-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:10:13 -0500 Received: from odin.unik.no ([193.156.96.7]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMrNk-0005G9-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:10:12 -0500 Received: from freya.unik.no ([193.156.96.215]) by odin.unik.no with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #12) id 1AMrNE-0005kX-00; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 17:09:40 +0100 Received: from leka.unik.no ([193.156.97.98] helo=unik.no) by freya.unik.no with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #12) id 1AMrNE-0006ym-00; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 17:09:40 +0100 Message-ID: <3FBCE76F.6070802@unik.no> Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 17:10:23 +0100 From: Frank Li User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020830 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, no MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Claude Chaudet CC: manet@ietf.org Subject: Re: [manet] Simulating 802.11b and g References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Claude > In fact I hesitated about using the "receiver sensivity" parameter of > the card as the carrier sense > threshold or as the minimum power needed to understand a frame (Rx > threshold). I chose to > use it as a carrier sense threshold as the range in ns, using these > values, almost corresponded > to the range advertised for "open office" in the Avaya specification. So what you use as the sensing range is still 550 m, the transmission range for 1 Mbps in the card specification which is also the default value in ns2. But I feel the sensing range should be even larger. For example, in Xu, Gerla and Bae Globecom02 paper ' How effective is the IEEE 802.11 RTS/CTS handshake in ad hoc neteworks?', the sensing range for 2 Mbps is calculated as 670 m (I guess they used the 'receiver sensitivity' to obtain this value). As 1 Mbps has longer transmission range, the corresponding sensing range should be larger. Let me repeat the same question in my previous mail. Assume the received power is just above the CS threshold and the channel is sensed as busy. Does this mean that the PHY header (PMD/PLCP) can be correctly decoded but not the MPDU, or even the PHY header itself can NOT be decoded? Can anyone give me an 'authoritative' answer to this point? Thanks. > > I don't know what is needed in a simulator to model the physical layer > accurately enough. > The parameters used in NS are important, but are they enough ? For > example, a > different set of values would be needed for each transmission rate / > physical layer coding, > especially considering that different parts of 802.11 frames are > transmitted at different rates. > > Anyway, to get back to the original question, do these PHY layer > parameters have a real influence on > the MAC layer behavior or do they just change the communication and > interference ranges ? I do believe they have impact on the MAC layer performance. But the current version of ns2 obviously does not provide us with enough info on physical layer, e.g. the phsical header is not readable, all data rates have the same transmission range, the modulation schemes are not really implmented. Frank _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Nov 20 12:06:43 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA13624 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 12:06:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMsG9-0000aS-Io for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 12:06:27 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAKH6PV8002250 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 12:06:25 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMsG9-0000aD-Co for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 12:06:25 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA13607 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 12:06:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMsG7-0006Ii-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 12:06:23 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMsG7-0006If-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 12:06:23 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMsFm-0000X1-78; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 12:06:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMsEr-0000VZ-I8 for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 12:05:05 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA13534 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 12:04:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMsEp-0006Gk-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 12:05:03 -0500 Received: from ece.rice.edu ([128.42.246.164]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMsEp-0006GX-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 12:05:03 -0500 Received: from localhost (ece [127.0.0.1]) by ece.rice.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD484FAC7; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:05:02 -0600 (CST) Received: from ece.rice.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (ece [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 25931-01-4; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:05:02 -0600 (CST) Received: from hoss.ece.rice.edu (hoss.ece.rice.edu [128.42.246.165]) by ece.rice.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 293DCFAAF; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:05:02 -0600 (CST) Received: from localhost (kanodia@localhost) by hoss.ece.rice.edu (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA09466; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:05:01 -0600 (CST) X-Authentication-Warning: hoss.ece.rice.edu: kanodia owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:05:01 -0600 (CST) From: Vikram Kanodia X-X-Sender: To: Frank Li Cc: Claude Chaudet , , Bahareh Sadeghi , "Edward W. Knightly" Subject: Re: [manet] Simulating 802.11b and g In-Reply-To: <3FBCE76F.6070802@unik.no> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: by amavis-20030616-p5 at ece.rice.edu Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Hi, To evaluate our protocol, Opportunistic Auto rate (OAR) for multi rate 802.11 (MobiCom 2002) we have implemented multi-rate 802.11 in ns-2.1b7a with the following salient features: - PHY headers are transmitted at the base rate of 1 Mbps. - Possible data transmission rates (for the MPDU part of a packet) are 2 Mbps, 5.5 Mbps and 11 Mbps. - The range for each data rate (corresponding to a different received power threshold) was set using data from atheros web site of data rate versus range values and also from experiments performed using an ORINOCCO wireless NIC). The range (with no channel fading and only two ray ground path loss model) were as follows: 0-100m ---> 11Mbps 100m-200m --> 5.5Mbps 200m-250m --> 2Mbps The code (with our implementation of OAR) and related papers can be found at: http://www.ece.rice.edu/networks/ and by following the link to software and OAR. Comments, feedback, anecdotes (preferably humorous ones) about your experiences with the code are appreciated. Also if you do decide to use the code (for your research or for fun) we would appreciate it if you drop an email to Bahareh (bahar@rice.edu) or Vikram (kanodia@rice.edu) to let us know of the fact - this will help us keep a track of people who use the code and also keep you informed of any updates to the code/bug fixes etc. Thanks, -Vikram > Hi Claude > > > In fact I hesitated about using the "receiver sensivity" parameter of > > the card as the carrier sense > > threshold or as the minimum power needed to understand a frame (Rx > > threshold). I chose to > > use it as a carrier sense threshold as the range in ns, using these > > values, almost corresponded > > to the range advertised for "open office" in the Avaya specification. > > > So what you use as the sensing range is still 550 m, the transmission > range for 1 Mbps in the card specification which is also > the default value in ns2. But I feel the sensing range should be even > larger. For example, in Xu, Gerla and Bae Globecom02 paper ' How > effective is the IEEE 802.11 RTS/CTS handshake in ad hoc neteworks?', > the sensing range for 2 Mbps is calculated as 670 m (I guess they used > the 'receiver sensitivity' to obtain this value). As 1 Mbps has longer > transmission range, the corresponding sensing range should be larger. > > Let me repeat the same question in my previous mail. Assume the received > power is just above the CS threshold and the channel is sensed as busy. > Does this mean that the PHY header (PMD/PLCP) can be correctly decoded > but not the MPDU, or even the PHY header itself can NOT be decoded? Can > anyone give me an 'authoritative' answer to this point? Thanks. > > > > > I don't know what is needed in a simulator to model the physical layer > > accurately enough. > > The parameters used in NS are important, but are they enough ? For > > example, a > > different set of values would be needed for each transmission rate / > > physical layer coding, > > especially considering that different parts of 802.11 frames are > > transmitted at different rates. > > > > Anyway, to get back to the original question, do these PHY layer > > parameters have a real influence on > > the MAC layer behavior or do they just change the communication and > > interference ranges ? > > I do believe they have impact on the MAC layer performance. But the > current version of ns2 obviously does not provide us with enough info on > physical layer, e.g. the phsical header is not readable, all data rates > have the same transmission range, the modulation schemes are not really > implmented. > > > Frank > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > manet mailing list > manet@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet > Department of ECE, Rice University | 713 348 3786 (O)| 713 664 5650(H) WWW: http://www.ece.rice.edu/‾kanodia _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Nov 20 12:43:35 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA15136 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 12:43:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMspr-0003V4-26 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 12:43:19 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAKHhJ7R013448 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 12:43:19 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMspq-0003Up-UK for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 12:43:18 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA15124 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 12:43:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMspp-0006tr-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 12:43:17 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMspo-0006to-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 12:43:16 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMspZ-0003Qm-PI; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 12:43:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMsoq-0003Pq-KE for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 12:42:16 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA15100 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 12:42:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMsoo-0006tA-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 12:42:14 -0500 Received: from ece.rice.edu ([128.42.246.164]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMsoo-0006t7-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 12:42:14 -0500 Received: from localhost (ece [127.0.0.1]) by ece.rice.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B029FAAF; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:42:14 -0600 (CST) Received: from ece.rice.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (ece [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 27609-01-7; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:42:14 -0600 (CST) Received: from hoss.ece.rice.edu (hoss.ece.rice.edu [128.42.246.165]) by ece.rice.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1166EFA50; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:42:14 -0600 (CST) Received: from localhost (kanodia@localhost) by hoss.ece.rice.edu (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA16004; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:42:13 -0600 (CST) X-Authentication-Warning: hoss.ece.rice.edu: kanodia owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:42:13 -0600 (CST) From: Vikram Kanodia X-X-Sender: To: Frank Li Cc: Claude Chaudet , , Bahareh Sadeghi Subject: Re: [manet] Simulating 802.11b and g In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: by amavis-20030616-p5 at ece.rice.edu Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Also to add to my previous email - we have not tied the possible data transmission rates to physical distance - rather we have tied the possible data transmission rate to received power thresholds which correspond to the distances given earlier in the presence of a ¥emph{non-fading channel} only. In the presence of a fading channel (Ricean for example) the data rate-distance chart does not hold true and it may happen that for severe fading (Ricean parameter, K = 0) maximum possible data rate is 2Mbps at distances as low as 75 m. Hope this clarifies matters a bit more. -Vikram > > Hi, > > To evaluate our protocol, Opportunistic Auto rate (OAR) for multi rate > 802.11 (MobiCom 2002) we have implemented multi-rate 802.11 in > ns-2.1b7a with the following salient features: > > - PHY headers are transmitted at the base rate of 1 Mbps. > > - Possible data transmission rates (for the MPDU part of a packet) are 2 > Mbps, 5.5 Mbps and 11 Mbps. > > - The range for each data rate (corresponding to a different received > power threshold) was set using data from atheros web site of data rate > versus range values and also from experiments performed using an ORINOCCO > wireless NIC). > > The range (with no channel fading and only two ray ground path loss > model) were as follows: > > 0-100m ---> 11Mbps > 100m-200m --> 5.5Mbps > 200m-250m --> 2Mbps > > The code (with our implementation of OAR) and related papers can be found > at: > http://www.ece.rice.edu/networks/ > > and by following the link to software and OAR. > > Comments, feedback, anecdotes (preferably humorous ones) about your > experiences with the code are appreciated. > > Also if you do decide to use the code (for your research or for fun) we > would appreciate it if you drop > an email to Bahareh (bahar@rice.edu) or Vikram (kanodia@rice.edu) to let > us know of the fact - this will help us keep a track of people who use the > code and also keep you informed of any updates to the code/bug fixes etc. > > Thanks, > -Vikram > > > > > > Hi Claude > > > > > In fact I hesitated about using the "receiver sensivity" parameter of > > > the card as the carrier sense > > > threshold or as the minimum power needed to understand a frame (Rx > > > threshold). I chose to > > > use it as a carrier sense threshold as the range in ns, using these > > > values, almost corresponded > > > to the range advertised for "open office" in the Avaya specification. > > > > > > So what you use as the sensing range is still 550 m, the transmission > > range for 1 Mbps in the card specification which is also > > the default value in ns2. But I feel the sensing range should be even > > larger. For example, in Xu, Gerla and Bae Globecom02 paper ' How > > effective is the IEEE 802.11 RTS/CTS handshake in ad hoc neteworks?', > > the sensing range for 2 Mbps is calculated as 670 m (I guess they used > > the 'receiver sensitivity' to obtain this value). As 1 Mbps has longer > > transmission range, the corresponding sensing range should be larger. > > > > Let me repeat the same question in my previous mail. Assume the received > > power is just above the CS threshold and the channel is sensed as busy. > > Does this mean that the PHY header (PMD/PLCP) can be correctly decoded > > but not the MPDU, or even the PHY header itself can NOT be decoded? Can > > anyone give me an 'authoritative' answer to this point? Thanks. > > > > > > > > I don't know what is needed in a simulator to model the physical layer > > > accurately enough. > > > The parameters used in NS are important, but are they enough ? For > > > example, a > > > different set of values would be needed for each transmission rate / > > > physical layer coding, > > > especially considering that different parts of 802.11 frames are > > > transmitted at different rates. > > > > > > Anyway, to get back to the original question, do these PHY layer > > > parameters have a real influence on > > > the MAC layer behavior or do they just change the communication and > > > interference ranges ? > > > > I do believe they have impact on the MAC layer performance. But the > > current version of ns2 obviously does not provide us with enough info on > > physical layer, e.g. the phsical header is not readable, all data rates > > have the same transmission range, the modulation schemes are not really > > implmented. > > > > > > Frank > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > manet mailing list > > manet@ietf.org > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet > > > > > Department of ECE, Rice University | 713 348 3786 (O)| 713 664 5650(H) > WWW: http://www.ece.rice.edu/‾kanodia > > Department of ECE, Rice University | 713 348 3786 (O)| 713 664 5650(H) WWW: http://www.ece.rice.edu/‾kanodia _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Nov 20 13:16:38 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA16824 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 13:16:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMtLo-0006SS-CH for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 13:16:20 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAKIGK4C024818 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 13:16:20 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMtLo-0006SD-8g for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 13:16:20 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA16779 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 13:16:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMtLm-0007WA-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 13:16:18 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMtLl-0007W7-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 13:16:17 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMtLW-0006Qq-Rg; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 13:16:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMtL9-0006Pz-Rd for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 13:15:40 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA16673 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 13:15:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMtL7-0007Tr-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 13:15:37 -0500 Received: from web41213.mail.yahoo.com ([66.218.93.46]) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMtL6-0007SV-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 13:15:36 -0500 Message-ID: <20031120181450.49438.qmail@web41213.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [129.110.97.155] by web41213.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 10:14:50 PST Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 10:14:50 -0800 (PST) From: Pallavi Mavinkurve To: manet@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <20031120170004.31811.54786.Mailman@www1.ietf.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-561275631-1069352090=:49034" Subject: [manet] Re: Transport protocols in wireless, mobile networks Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , --0-561275631-1069352090=:49034 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >Is there any good work/paper that analyzes transport protocols in wireless, mobile networks? Such as using TCP or TCP with some specific wireless enhancements? Or maybe someone has a different, good solution for this problem? there are many papers for wireless TCP. the following is a good paper for comparison analysis of various schemes. A Comparison of Mechanisms for Improving TCP Performance over Wireless Links. Hari Balakrishnan, Venkat Padmanabhan, Srinivasan Seshan, and Randy H. Katz. IEEE/ACM Transactions on Networking, December 1997. Pallavi Mavinkurve Pallavi.Mavinkurve@student.utdallas.edu "If we are unwilling to be aware of the dark, we cannot see the light" John Cowan --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now --0-561275631-1069352090=:49034 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

>Is there any good work/paper that analyzes transport protocols in wireless, mobile networks? Such as using TCP or TCP with some specific
wireless enhancements? Or maybe someone has a different, good solution for this problem?

there are many papers for wireless TCP. the following is a good paper for comparison analysis of various schemes.

A Comparison of Mechanisms for Improving TCP Performance over Wireless Links. Hari Balakrishnan, Venkat Padmanabhan, Srinivasan Seshan, and Randy H. Katz.
IEEE/ACM Transactions on Networking, December 1997.


 



 



Pallavi Mavinkurve

Pallavi.Mavinkurve@student.utdallas.edu

"If we are unwilling to be aware of the dark, we cannot see the light"

John Cowan

 

Do you Yahoo!?
Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now --0-561275631-1069352090=:49034-- _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Nov 20 16:12:38 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA27033 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 16:12:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMw67-0003hh-Nt for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 16:12:20 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAKLCJNJ014229 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 16:12:19 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMw67-0003hQ-Cc for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 16:12:19 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA26974 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 16:12:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMw65-0002wb-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 16:12:17 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMw65-0002wY-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 16:12:17 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMw5p-0003ZD-9I; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 16:12:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMw52-0003N0-9J for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 16:11:12 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA26850 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 16:10:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMw50-0002to-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 16:11:10 -0500 Received: from pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.120.122]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMw50-0002tk-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 16:11:10 -0500 Received: from user-2ivfnto.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.247.223.184] helo=erg.sri.com) by pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AMw4v-00020f-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 13:11:05 -0800 Message-ID: <3FBD2DE7.6020704@erg.sri.com> Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 13:11:03 -0800 From: Richard Ogier User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011128 Netscape6/6.2.1 (emach0202) X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: manet@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [manet] I-D announcement for An updated version of the pre-draft that I previously announced has been submitted and is available at: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ogier-manet-ospf-extension-00.txt Title: Alternative Designs for OSPF Extensions for Mobile Ad Hoc Networks There are a few changes from the pre-draft: - Added Section 5: Hybrid Reliable/Unreliable Flooding in OSPF. This section describes a simple method that allows the ACKs for a given LSA to be suppressed when new instances of the LSA are received frequently. - Modified Section 6.2 (Reliable Flooding Using Periodic Database Description Packets) to improve readability and to emphasize the use of a CDS. - Added Section 6.5: Adjacencies. This section proposes a modified definition of "fully adjacent" for links between a CDS node and its neighbors. - Modified the Conclusions to recommend using a CDS. - Added more references on CDS algorithms. The purpose of this draft is to recommend an approach for extending OSPF to support manets. The draft may contain some new ideas, but the approach is mainly based on old ideas. The approach tries to minimize the changes to OSPF, while achieving the goal of reducing control traffic. Regards, Richard I-D announcement: draft-ogier-manet-ospf-extension-00.txt Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit An updated version of the pre-draft that I previously announced has been submitted and is available at: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ogier-manet-ospf-extension-00.txt Title: Alternative Designs for OSPF Extensions for Mobile Ad Hoc Networks There are a few changes from the pre-draft: - Added Section 5: Hybrid Reliable/Unreliable Flooding in OSPF. This section describes a simple method that allows the ACKs for a given LSA to be suppressed when new instances of the LSA are received frequently. - Modified Section 6.2 (Reliable Flooding Using Periodic Database Description Packets) to improve readability and to emphasize the use of a CDS. - Added Section 6.5: Adjacencies. This section proposes a modified definition of "fully adjacent" for links between a CDS node and its neighbors. - Modified the Conclusions to recommend using a CDS. - Added more references on CDS algorithms. The purpose of this draft is to recommend an approach for extending OSPF to support manet interfaces. The draft may contain some new ideas, but the approach is mainly based on old ideas. The approach tries to minimize the changes to OSPF, while achieving the goal of reducing control traffic. Regards, Richard _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Nov 20 16:36:31 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA29496 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 16:36:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMwTG-00065a-TB for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 16:36:14 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAKLaEuS023400 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 16:36:14 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMwTG-00065L-Ph for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 16:36:14 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA29471 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 16:36:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMwTE-0003t3-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 16:36:12 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMwTE-0003t0-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 16:36:12 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMwT5-0005y8-1e; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 16:36:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMwSa-0005wf-OH for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 16:35:32 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA29451 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 16:35:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMwSY-0003s2-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 16:35:30 -0500 Received: from scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.120.49]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMwSY-0003rf-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 16:35:30 -0500 Received: from user-38ldusu.dialup.mindspring.com ([209.86.251.158] helo=erg.sri.com) by scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AMwSN-0003L6-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 13:35:20 -0800 Message-ID: <3FBD3396.8010100@erg.sri.com> Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 13:35:18 -0800 From: Richard Ogier User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011128 Netscape6/6.2.1 (emach0202) X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: manet@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [manet] I-D announcement: draft-ogier-manet-ospf-extension-00.txt Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (Since the subject line somehow got messed up in my previous post, I am reposting this with the correct subject line.) An updated version of the pre-draft that I previously announced has been submitted and is available at: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ogier-manet-ospf-extension-00.txt Title: Alternative Designs for OSPF Extensions for Mobile Ad Hoc Networks There are a few changes from the pre-draft: - Added Section 5: Hybrid Reliable/Unreliable Flooding in OSPF. This section describes a simple method that allows the ACKs for a given LSA to be suppressed when new instances of the LSA are received frequently. - Modified Section 6.2 (Reliable Flooding Using Periodic Database Description Packets) to improve readability and to emphasize the use of a CDS. - Added Section 6.5: Adjacencies. This section proposes a modified definition of "fully adjacent" for links between a CDS node and its neighbors. - Modified the Conclusions to recommend using a CDS. - Added more references on CDS algorithms. The purpose of this draft is to recommend an approach for extending OSPF to support manets. The draft may contain some new ideas, but the approach is mainly based on old ideas. The approach tries to minimize the changes to OSPF, while achieving the goal of reducing control traffic. Regards, Richard _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Nov 20 16:45:31 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA00275 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 16:45:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMwby-0006vX-Oe for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 16:45:14 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAKLjEQB026621 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 16:45:14 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMwby-0006vI-K6 for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 16:45:14 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA00208 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 16:45:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMwbw-00049s-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 16:45:12 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMwbw-00049p-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 16:45:12 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMwbp-0006qL-88; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 16:45:05 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMwb8-0006nE-P4 for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 16:44:22 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA00176 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 16:44:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMwb6-00048g-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 16:44:20 -0500 Received: from swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.120.123]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMwb6-00048c-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 16:44:20 -0500 Received: from user-38ldusu.dialup.mindspring.com ([209.86.251.158] helo=erg.sri.com) by swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AMwb3-0001KI-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 13:44:18 -0800 Message-ID: <3FBD35B0.5030703@erg.sri.com> Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 13:44:16 -0800 From: Richard Ogier User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011128 Netscape6/6.2.1 (emach0202) X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: manet@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [manet] I-D announcement: draft-ogier-manet-ospf-extension-00.txt Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (Since the subject line somehow got messed up in my earlier post, I am reposting this message with the correct subject line.) An updated version of the pre-draft that I previously announced has been submitted and is available at: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ogier-manet-ospf-extension-00.txt Title: Alternative Designs for OSPF Extensions for Mobile Ad Hoc Networks There are a few changes from the pre-draft: - Added Section 5: Hybrid Reliable/Unreliable Flooding in OSPF. This section describes a simple method that allows the ACKs for a given LSA to be suppressed when new instances of the LSA are received frequently. - Modified Section 6.2 (Reliable Flooding Using Periodic Database Description Packets) to improve readability and to emphasize the use of a CDS. - Added Section 6.5: Adjacencies. This section proposes a modified definition of "fully adjacent" for links between a CDS node and its neighbors. - Modified the Conclusions to recommend using a CDS. - Added more references on CDS algorithms. The purpose of this draft is to recommend an approach for extending OSPF to support manets. The draft may contain some new ideas, but the approach is mainly based on old ideas. The approach tries to minimize the changes to OSPF, while achieving the goal of reducing control traffic. Regards, Richard _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Nov 20 19:12:27 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA09774 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 19:12:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMyu9-0008Rj-Lm for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 19:12:10 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAL0C949032463 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 19:12:09 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMyu9-0008RW-IJ for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 19:12:09 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA09746 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 19:11:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMyu7-0007TX-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 19:12:08 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMyu7-0007TU-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 19:12:07 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMyu1-0008Oh-68; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 19:12:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMyu0-0008Nz-18 for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 19:12:00 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA09740 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 19:11:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMytw-0007TM-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 19:11:56 -0500 Received: from patty.levels.unisa.edu.au ([130.220.36.156]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMytv-0007TA-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 19:11:55 -0500 Received: from spri.levels.unisa.edu.au (morpheus [172.17.0.143]) by patty.levels.unisa.edu.au (8.12.10/8.12.2) with ESMTP id hAL0Brv1005894; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 10:41:53 +1030 (CST) Message-ID: <3FBD5847.4040708@spri.levels.unisa.edu.au> Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 10:41:51 +1030 From: Peter Pham User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020830 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Philippe Jacquet CC: MANET Subject: Re: [manet] Question regarding Mobility References: <3FBC12F3.2010808@spri.levels.unisa.edu.au> <00ab01c3af68$6baa7a60$1f175d80@inria.fr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Philippe I am really intersted in the result. Is there any papers on this that you can refer to ?...Can you let me know ? Cheers Peter Pham Philippe Jacquet wrote: >Yes, Peter, the distribution changes if you introduce mobility and it >depends on the mobility model. Take the random way point model where each >node has a distinct a random destination point selected uniformly in a >square, and each node moves to this destination at constant speed. In this >case, the stationary density at point (x,y) (assuming a 1x1 square) is >*( x* log x+(1-x)*log(1-x))*(y*log y +(1-y)*log(1-y)) which differs from >uniform density (which is equal to 1 at any point in the 1x1 square). > >Philippe >----- Original Message ----- >From: Peter Pham >To: MANET >Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 2:03 AM >Subject: [manet] Question regarding Mobility > > > > >>Hi all >>I am interested in modelling ad hoc networks. In the stationary scenario >>(nodes do not move), I can assume that the mobile nodes are distributed >>randomly according to Poisson distribution (many assumed so). However, >>is this assumption still valid under the mobility ? >>Can anyone give me some advice ? >> >>Peter Pham >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>manet mailing list >>manet@ietf.org >>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet >> >> > > >_______________________________________________ >manet mailing list >manet@ietf.org >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet > > > > _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Nov 21 00:37:37 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA18442 for ; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 00:37:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AN3yr-0001Jq-Gq for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 00:37:21 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAL5bLXs005066 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 00:37:21 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AN3yr-0001Jd-2a for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 00:37:21 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA18430 for ; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 00:37:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AN3yo-0003yu-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 00:37:18 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AN3yo-0003yr-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 00:37:18 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AN3ya-0001F2-Cv; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 00:37:04 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AN3yF-0001CR-Q4 for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 00:36:43 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA18378 for ; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 00:36:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AN3yD-0003xH-00 for manet@ietf.org; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 00:36:41 -0500 Received: from law15-f87.law15.hotmail.com ([64.4.23.87] helo=hotmail.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AN3yC-0003wx-00 for manet@ietf.org; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 00:36:40 -0500 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 21:18:18 -0800 Received: from 203.129.220.117 by lw15fd.law15.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 05:18:18 GMT X-Originating-IP: [203.129.220.117] X-Originating-Email: [karun8880@hotmail.com] From: "Karun Verma" To: manet@ietf.org Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 10:48:18 +0530 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 Nov 2003 05:18:18.0639 (UTC) FILETIME=[DFAF49F0:01C3AFEE] Subject: [manet] Ragardin Generation of Scenerio in MANET Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: ,

Hello Friends,

Please Tell Me how i can create Scenerios in MANET for various protocols loke DSDV, DSR qand OLSR, etc. I want to generate a 1000x1000 scenerio with 50-100 nodes and random movement of nodes in the scenerio. If any body has the script for the simulation of this scenerio, please provide me the help. Will be very thankful to him.

Thanx In Advance

Karun Verma

ME_IT_2002

PEC Chandigarh

India


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It cuts cost & adds value! _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Nov 21 00:47:23 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA18689 for ; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 00:47:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AN48I-0002BD-IV for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 00:47:07 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAL5l6Fu008358 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 00:47:06 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AN48I-00029b-84 for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 00:47:06 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA18671 for ; 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Fri, 21 Nov 2003 00:46:08 -0500 Received: from MBXSRV26.stu.nus.edu.sg ([137.132.14.236]) by ims21.stu.nus.edu.sg with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5329); Fri, 21 Nov 2003 13:45:32 +0800 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Subject: RE: [manet] Ragardin Generation of Scenerio in MANET Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 13:45:32 +0800 Message-ID: <07FF47DA7F34EF4F8700F35EE424493E0111D0D8@MBXSRV26.stu.nus.edu.sg> Thread-Topic: [manet] Ragardin Generation of Scenerio in MANET Thread-Index: AcOv8f57X2RrqZFXRWm1iQ0L/r+oJgAAD61C From: "Marwaha Shivanajay" To: "Karun Verma" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 Nov 2003 05:45:32.0382 (UTC) FILETIME=[AD78AFE0:01C3AFF2] Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGkgS2FydW4sDQogDQpZb3UgbWF5IGNoZWNrIG91dCB0aGUgTlMtbWFudWFsIG9yIHRoZSBNYXJj IEdyZWlzIE5TIHR1dG9yaWFsIGZvciB0aGUgY29tbWFuZHMgdG8gZ2VuZXJhdGUgd2lyZWxlc3Mg bW9iaWxpdHkgc2NlbmFyaW9zIGZvciBOUy4gQnV0IGtlZXAgaW4gbWluZCB0aGF0IHlvdXIgc2lt dWxhdGlvbnMgd2l0aCBzdWNoIGxhcmdlIHBhcmFtZXRlcnMgY291bGQgYmUgdmVyeSBzbG93IDst KSANCiANClJlZ2FyZHMsDQpTaGl2YW5hamF5DQoNCgktLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0t LSANCglGcm9tOiBtYW5ldC1hZG1pbkBpZXRmLm9yZyBvbiBiZWhhbGYgb2YgS2FydW4gVmVybWEg DQoJU2VudDogRnJpIDExLzIxLzIwMDMgMToxOCBQTSANCglUbzogbWFuZXRAaWV0Zi5vcmcgDQoJ Q2M6IA0KCVN1YmplY3Q6IFttYW5ldF0gUmFnYXJkaW4gR2VuZXJhdGlvbiBvZiBTY2VuZXJpbyBp biBNQU5FVA0KCQ0KCQ0KDQoJSGVsbG8gRnJpZW5kcywNCg0KCVBsZWFzZSBUZWxsIE1lIGhvdyBp IGNhbiBjcmVhdGUgU2NlbmVyaW9zIGluIE1BTkVUIGZvciB2YXJpb3VzIHByb3RvY29scyBsb2tl IERTRFYsIERTUiBxYW5kIE9MU1IsIGV0Yy4gSSB3YW50IHRvIGdlbmVyYXRlIGEgMTAwMHgxMDAw IHNjZW5lcmlvIHdpdGggNTAtMTAwIG5vZGVzIGFuZCByYW5kb20gbW92ZW1lbnQgb2Ygbm9kZXMg aW4gdGhlIHNjZW5lcmlvLiBJZiBhbnkgYm9keSBoYXMgdGhlIHNjcmlwdCBmb3IgdGhlIHNpbXVs YXRpb24gb2YgdGhpcyBzY2VuZXJpbywgcGxlYXNlIHByb3ZpZGUgbWUgdGhlIGhlbHAuIFdpbGwg YmUgdmVyeSB0aGFua2Z1bCB0byBoaW0uDQoNCglUaGFueCBJbiBBZHZhbmNlDQoNCglLYXJ1biBW ZXJtYQ0KDQoJTUVfSVRfMjAwMg0KDQoJUEVDIENoYW5kaWdhcmgNCg0KCUluZGlhDQoNCg0KICBf X19fXyAgDQoNCglFbmpveSBzaG9wcGluZyBvbmxpbmU/IEdldCB0aGlzIGUgY3JlZGl0IGNhcmQu IEl0IGN1dHMgY29zdCAmIGFkZHMgdmFsdWUhIDxodHRwOi8vZy5tc24uY29tLzhITUFFTklOLzI3 NDY/P1BTPT4gIF9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f IG1hbmV0IG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdCBtYW5ldEBpZXRmLm9yZyBodHRwczovL3d3dzEuaWV0Zi5vcmcv bWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9tYW5ldCANCg0K _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Nov 21 09:37:35 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA14795 for ; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 09:37:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ANCPL-0002ip-JQ for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 09:37:17 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hALEbFl0010454 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 09:37:15 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ANCPL-0002iS-3F for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 09:37:15 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA14775 for ; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 09:37:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ANCPJ-0002ye-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 09:37:13 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ANCPI-0002ya-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 09:37:12 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ANCP9-0002eQ-TX; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 09:37:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ANCOr-0002ci-U8 for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 09:36:45 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA14761 for ; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 09:36:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ANCOq-0002yK-00 for manet@ietf.org; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 09:36:44 -0500 Received: from nestor.nmsu.edu ([128.123.34.146] helo=mail.nmsu.edu) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ANCOo-0002yH-00 for manet@ietf.org; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 09:36:43 -0500 Received: from PCMullen2 (pc-mullen-2.NMSU.Edu [128.123.245.103]) by mail.nmsu.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61BB52003; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 07:36:41 -0700 (MST) From: "John Mullen" To: "'Philippe Jacquet'" , "'Peter Pham'" Cc: "'MANET'" Subject: RE: [manet] Question regarding Mobility Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 07:36:41 -0700 Message-ID: <000001c3b03c$e10f0490$67f57b80@IEngr.ad.nmsu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <007201c3b017$021d0ae0$1f175d80@inria.fr> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Peter, Well, if you have a very large table. :-) The exact distributions are rather tedious and dependent on the mobility model in question. If you use Johnson's version of the Random Waypoint model (David B. Johnson, David A. Maltz, and A Josh Broch. DSR: The Dynamic Source Routing Protocol for Multi-Hop Wireless Ad Hoc Networks, chapter 5, pages 139-172.) on a square region, then the cumulative distribution function of the distance (d) between two randomly-selected nodes is approximately 1 - exp{-15d^2/[w^2(5-2p)]} where w is the edge dimension of the square region and p is the probability that a random node will be in motion. The gory details of this and similar derivations are in "Robust Approximations to the Distribution of Link Distances in a Wireless Network Occupying a Rectangular Region," _Mobile Computing and Communications Review_, Volume 7, Number 2. You can find a closer approximation in that paper and get some sense of what the exact distributions look like. However, there are other versions of the Random Waypoint Mobility Model and many other mobility models (see T. Camp, J. Boleng, and V. Davies. "A survey of mobility models for ad hoc network research." _Wireless Communications & Mobile Computing (WCMC): Special issue on Mobile Ad Hoc Networking: Research, Trends and Applications_, 2(5):483-502, 2002.) and each one will have its own spatial and distance distributions. The approximation given in my paper above can be used in at least some of the models, providing you can determine the standard deviations of the X and Y spatial distributions. However, as far as I know, that is something yet to be done. Even for the situation above, I depended on a promising, but approximate model given in Bettstetter and Wagner's paper, "The spatial node distribution of the random waypoint mobility model." In the 1st German Workshop on Mobile Ad-Hoc Networks (WMAN'02), Ulm, Germany, 2002.) As far as I know, no one has derived an exact distribution for this case. John Mullen -----Original Message----- From: manet-admin@ietf.org [mailto:manet-admin@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Philippe Jacquet Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 3:06 AM To: Peter Pham Cc: MANET Subject: Re: [manet] Question regarding Mobility Basically I am not aware of publications, these are easy derviations, you can write the proof on the corner of a table... Philippe ----- Original Message ----- From: Peter Pham To: Philippe Jacquet Cc: MANET Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 1:11 AM Subject: Re: [manet] Question regarding Mobility > Dear Philippe > > I am really intersted in the result. Is there any papers on this that > you can refer to ?...Can you let me know ? > > Cheers > Peter Pham > > Philippe Jacquet wrote: > > >Yes, Peter, the distribution changes if you introduce mobility and it > >depends on the mobility model. Take the random way point model where > >each node has a distinct a random destination point selected > >uniformly in a square, and each node moves to this destination at > >constant speed. In this > >case, the stationary density at point (x,y) (assuming a 1x1 square) > >is *( x* log x+(1-x)*log(1-x))*(y*log y +(1-y)*log(1-y)) which > >differs from uniform density (which is equal to 1 at any point in the > >1x1 square). > > > >Philippe > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: Peter Pham > >To: MANET > >Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 2:03 AM > >Subject: [manet] Question regarding Mobility > > > > > > > > > >>Hi all > >>I am interested in modelling ad hoc networks. In the stationary > >>scenario (nodes do not move), I can assume that the mobile nodes are > >>distributed randomly according to Poisson distribution (many assumed > >>so). However, is this assumption still valid under the mobility ? > >>Can anyone give me some advice ? > >> > >>Peter Pham > >> > >> > >> > >>_______________________________________________ > >>manet mailing list > >>manet@ietf.org > >>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet > >> > >> > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >manet mailing list > >manet@ietf.org > >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > manet mailing list > manet@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Nov 21 11:38:41 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA20537 for ; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 11:38:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ANEIY-0001dL-Ey for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 11:38:24 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hALGcMKT006265 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 11:38:22 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ANEIX-0001cy-SA for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 11:38:21 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA20510 for ; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 11:38:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ANEIW-0004eK-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 11:38:20 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ANEIW-0004eH-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 11:38:20 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ANEIG-0001Ry-Dy; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 11:38:04 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ANEI2-0001N8-8w for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 11:37:50 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA20495 for ; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 11:37:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ANEI1-0004dv-00 for manet@ietf.org; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 11:37:49 -0500 Received: from falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.120.74]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ANEI0-0004ds-00 for manet@ietf.org; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 11:37:48 -0500 Received: from user-38lc0mk.dialup.mindspring.com ([209.86.2.212] helo=erg.sri.com) by falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1ANEHt-0000WJ-00; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 08:37:42 -0800 Message-ID: <3FBE3F54.9000602@erg.sri.com> Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 08:37:40 -0800 From: Richard Ogier User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011128 Netscape6/6.2.1 (emach0202) X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Philippe Jacquet CC: MANET Subject: Re: [manet] Question regarding Mobility References: <3FBC12F3.2010808@spri.levels.unisa.edu.au> <00ab01c3af68$6baa7a60$1f175d80@inria.fr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Philippe Jacquet wrote: >Yes, Peter, the distribution changes if you introduce mobility and it >depends on the mobility model. Take the random way point model where each >node has a distinct a random destination point selected uniformly in a >square, and each node moves to this destination at constant speed. In this >case, the stationary density at point (x,y) (assuming a 1x1 square) is >*( x* log x+(1-x)*log(1-x))*(y*log y +(1-y)*log(1-y)) which differs from >uniform density (which is equal to 1 at any point in the 1x1 square). > >Philippe > Philippe, Your result implies that you can consider the x and y directions independently. I don't think this is the case, because the speed in the x direction depends on the (x,y) direction of movement. I did some calculations, and I think your result assumes that the time to go from one random point to the next random point is constant (thus, if the distance between the 2 points is greater, the speed must be greater). Just for fun I tried to derive the steady state distribution in one dimension for a unit interval [0,1] and got the following result (assuming constant speed and zero pause time): C * x*(1-x) (C is a normalization constant) The x*(1-x) term is simply the probability that the point x lies between two random numbers uniformly distributed in [0,1]. I ran a simulation on the unit interval [0,1] which confirms this result. In particular, the probability that the node is near x = 0.25 is 0.75 times the probability that the node is near x = 0.50. Unfortunately, this result cannot be extended to 2 dimensions by taking the product of this term for the x and y directions, because the x and y components of the node speed are not independent. Richard > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Peter Pham >To: MANET >Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 2:03 AM >Subject: [manet] Question regarding Mobility > > >>Hi all >>I am interested in modelling ad hoc networks. In the stationary scenario >>(nodes do not move), I can assume that the mobile nodes are distributed >>randomly according to Poisson distribution (many assumed so). However, >>is this assumption still valid under the mobility ? >>Can anyone give me some advice ? >> >>Peter Pham >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>manet mailing list >>manet@ietf.org >>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet >> > > >_______________________________________________ >manet mailing list >manet@ietf.org >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet > _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Nov 21 11:56:39 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA22058 for ; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 11:56:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ANEZx-00037Y-2u for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 11:56:22 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hALGuLtu011990 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 11:56:21 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ANEZw-00037H-PC for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 11:56:20 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA21958 for ; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 11:56:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ANEZu-0005A5-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 11:56:18 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ANEZu-0005A2-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 11:56:18 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ANEZg-0002w3-5d; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 11:56:04 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ANEZJ-0002tK-S8 for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 11:55:41 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA21880 for ; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 11:55:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ANEZI-00058D-00 for manet@ietf.org; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 11:55:40 -0500 Received: from nestor.nmsu.edu ([128.123.34.146] helo=mail.nmsu.edu) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ANEZI-000586-00 for manet@ietf.org; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 11:55:40 -0500 Received: from PCMullen2 (pc-mullen-2.NMSU.Edu [128.123.245.103]) by mail.nmsu.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E23E2012; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 09:55:39 -0700 (MST) From: "John Mullen" To: "'Richard Ogier'" Cc: "'MANET'" Subject: RE: [manet] Question regarding Mobility Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 09:55:39 -0700 Message-ID: <000001c3b050$4ad19fb0$67f57b80@IEngr.ad.nmsu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <3FBE3F54.9000602@erg.sri.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Richard, You are correct in the matter of non-independent speed, however, I am unaware of any result that takes this into consideration. In "The spatial node distribution of the random waypoint mobility model." (1st German Workshop on Mobile Ad-Hoc Networks (WMAN'02), Ulm, Germany, 2002.), Christian Bettstetter discusses this problem at length and develops a couple of approximate distributions. He also performed some simulations which seem to indicate the approximations are pretty close. Bettstetter has published more on this topic, so you may want to check out his web page: http://www.lkn.ei.tum.de/‾chris/#Publications John Mullen -----Original Message----- From: manet-admin@ietf.org [mailto:manet-admin@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Richard Ogier Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 9:38 AM To: Philippe Jacquet Cc: MANET Subject: Re: [manet] Question regarding Mobility Philippe Jacquet wrote: >Yes, Peter, the distribution changes if you introduce mobility and it >depends on the mobility model. Take the random way point model where >each node has a distinct a random destination point selected uniformly >in a square, and each node moves to this destination at constant speed. >In this case, the stationary density at point (x,y) (assuming a 1x1 >square) is *( x* log x+(1-x)*log(1-x))*(y*log y +(1-y)*log(1-y)) which >differs from uniform density (which is equal to 1 at any point in the >1x1 square). > >Philippe > Philippe, Your result implies that you can consider the x and y directions independently. I don't think this is the case, because the speed in the x direction depends on the (x,y) direction of movement. I did some calculations, and I think your result assumes that the time to go from one random point to the next random point is constant (thus, if the distance between the 2 points is greater, the speed must be greater). Just for fun I tried to derive the steady state distribution in one dimension for a unit interval [0,1] and got the following result (assuming constant speed and zero pause time): C * x*(1-x) (C is a normalization constant) The x*(1-x) term is simply the probability that the point x lies between two random numbers uniformly distributed in [0,1]. I ran a simulation on the unit interval [0,1] which confirms this result. In particular, the probability that the node is near x = 0.25 is 0.75 times the probability that the node is near x = 0.50. Unfortunately, this result cannot be extended to 2 dimensions by taking the product of this term for the x and y directions, because the x and y components of the node speed are not independent. Richard > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Peter Pham >To: MANET >Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 2:03 AM >Subject: [manet] Question regarding Mobility > > >>Hi all >>I am interested in modelling ad hoc networks. In the stationary >>scenario (nodes do not move), I can assume that the mobile nodes are >>distributed randomly according to Poisson distribution (many assumed >>so). However, is this assumption still valid under the mobility ? Can >>anyone give me some advice ? >> >>Peter Pham >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>manet mailing list >>manet@ietf.org >>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet >> > > >_______________________________________________ >manet mailing list >manet@ietf.org >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet > _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Nov 21 21:33:35 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA16537 for ; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 21:33:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ANNaF-00019T-7w for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 21:33:18 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAM2XFFt004427 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 21:33:15 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ANNaE-00019K-UN for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 21:33:14 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA16515 for ; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 21:33:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ANNaC-00062w-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 21:33:12 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ANNaB-00062t-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 21:33:11 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ANNa1-00013P-Un; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 21:33:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ANNZG-00011v-F7 for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 21:32:14 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA16504 for ; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 21:32:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ANNZD-00062F-00 for manet@ietf.org; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 21:32:11 -0500 Received: from conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.120.54]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ANNZD-00062C-00 for manet@ietf.org; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 21:32:11 -0500 Received: from user-2ivfk32.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.247.208.98] helo=erg.sri.com) by conure.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1ANNZB-0006Vx-00; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 18:32:09 -0800 Message-ID: <3FBECAA9.5090601@erg.sri.com> Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 18:32:09 -0800 From: Richard Ogier User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011128 Netscape6/6.2.1 (emach0202) X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: John Mullen CC: "'MANET'" Subject: Re: [manet] Question regarding Mobility References: <000001c3b050$4ad19fb0$67f57b80@IEngr.ad.nmsu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John, Thanks for the pointer. Frankly, instead of studying bad mobility models (like random waypoint), I prefer to use a good mobility model that ensures node positions are uniformly distributed. One model that achieves a uniform distribution (assuming zero pause time) is a random walk model, where each node moves in a random direction for T seconds, then chooses a new random direction. If the node hits a boundary, it bounces off as in billiards (angle of reflection equals angle of incidence). There is another model called the "random direction" model, in which the node chooses a new random direction only when it hits the boundary. However, I don't think this model achieves a uniform distribution (assuming zero pause time). The following paper discusses these model and several others (but does not talk about probability distributions): T. Camp, J. Boleng, and V. Davies. A survey of mobility models for ad hoc network research. Wireless Communications & Mobile Computing (WCMC): Special issue on Mobile Ad Hoc Networking: Research, Trends and Applications, 2(5):483--502, 2002. Richard John Mullen wrote: Hi Richard, You are correct in the matter of non-independent speed, however, I am unaware of any result that takes this into consideration. In "The spatial node distribution of the random waypoint mobility model." (1st German Workshop on Mobile Ad-Hoc Networks (WMAN'02), Ulm, Germany, 2002.), Christian Bettstetter discusses this problem at length and develops a couple of approximate distributions. He also performed some simulations which seem to indicate the approximations are pretty close. Bettstetter has published more on this topic, so you may want to check out his web page: http://www.lkn.ei.tum.de/‾chris/#Publications John Mullen -----Original Message----- From: manet-admin@ietf.org [mailto:manet-admin@ietf.org ] On Behalf Of Richard Ogier Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 9:38 AM To: Philippe Jacquet Cc: MANET Subject: Re: [manet] Question regarding Mobility Philippe Jacquet wrote: > Yes, Peter, the distribution changes if you introduce mobility and it > depends on the mobility model. Take the random way point model where > each node has a distinct a random destination point selected uniformly > in a square, and each node moves to this destination at constant speed. > > In this case, the stationary density at point (x,y) (assuming a 1x1 > square) is *( x* log x+(1-x)*log(1-x))*(y*log y +(1-y)*log(1-y)) which > differs from uniform density (which is equal to 1 at any point in the > 1x1 square). > > Philippe > Philippe, Your result implies that you can consider the x and y directions independently. I don't think this is the case, because the speed in the x direction depends on the (x,y) direction of movement. I did some calculations, and I think your result assumes that the time to go from one random point to the next random point is constant (thus, if the distance between the 2 points is greater, the speed must be greater). Just for fun I tried to derive the steady state distribution in one dimension for a unit interval [0,1] and got the following result (assuming constant speed and zero pause time): C * x*(1-x) (C is a normalization constant) The x*(1-x) term is simply the probability that the point x lies between two random numbers uniformly distributed in [0,1]. I ran a simulation on the unit interval [0,1] which confirms this result. In particular, the probability that the node is near x = 0.25 is 0.75 times the probability that the node is near x = 0.50. Unfortunately, this result cannot be extended to 2 dimensions by taking the product of this term for the x and y directions, because the x and y components of the node speed are not independent. Richard John Mullen wrote: >Hi Richard, > >You are correct in the matter of non-independent speed, however, I am >unaware of any result that takes this into consideration. In "The >spatial node distribution of the random waypoint mobility model." (1st >German Workshop on Mobile Ad-Hoc Networks (WMAN'02), Ulm, Germany, >2002.), Christian Bettstetter discusses this problem at length and >develops a couple of approximate distributions. He also performed some >simulations which seem to indicate the approximations are pretty close. >Bettstetter has published more on this topic, so you may want to check >out his web page: > >http://www.lkn.ei.tum.de/‾chris/#Publications > >John Mullen > >-----Original Message----- >From: manet-admin@ietf.org [mailto:manet-admin@ietf.org] On Behalf Of >Richard Ogier >Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 9:38 AM >To: Philippe Jacquet >Cc: MANET >Subject: Re: [manet] Question regarding Mobility > > >Philippe Jacquet wrote: > >>Yes, Peter, the distribution changes if you introduce mobility and it >>depends on the mobility model. Take the random way point model where >>each node has a distinct a random destination point selected uniformly >>in a square, and each node moves to this destination at constant speed. >> > >>In this case, the stationary density at point (x,y) (assuming a 1x1 >>square) is *( x* log x+(1-x)*log(1-x))*(y*log y +(1-y)*log(1-y)) which >>differs from uniform density (which is equal to 1 at any point in the >>1x1 square). >> >>Philippe >> >Philippe, > >Your result implies that you can consider the x and y directions >independently. I don't think this is the case, because the speed in the >x direction depends on the (x,y) direction of movement. >I did some calculations, and I think your result assumes that the time >to go from one random point to the next random point is constant (thus, >if the distance between the 2 points is greater, the speed must be >greater). > >Just for fun I tried to derive the steady state distribution in one >dimension for a unit interval [0,1] and got the following result >(assuming constant speed and zero pause time): > > C * x*(1-x) (C is a normalization constant) > >The x*(1-x) term is simply the probability that the point x lies between >two random numbers uniformly distributed in [0,1]. I ran a simulation on >the unit interval [0,1] which confirms this result. In particular, the >probability that the node is near x = 0.25 is 0.75 times the probability >that the node is near x = 0.50. > >Unfortunately, this result cannot be extended to 2 dimensions by taking >the product of this term for the x and y directions, because the x and y >components of the node speed are not independent. > >Richard > >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: Peter Pham >>To: MANET >>Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 2:03 AM >>Subject: [manet] Question regarding Mobility >> >> >>>Hi all >>>I am interested in modelling ad hoc networks. In the stationary >>>scenario (nodes do not move), I can assume that the mobile nodes are >>>distributed randomly according to Poisson distribution (many assumed >>>so). However, is this assumption still valid under the mobility ? Can >>>anyone give me some advice ? >>> >>>Peter Pham >>> >>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>manet mailing list >>>manet@ietf.org >>>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet >>> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>manet mailing list >>manet@ietf.org >>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet >> > > > >_______________________________________________ >manet mailing list >manet@ietf.org >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet > > _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Nov 21 23:34:41 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA19139 for ; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 23:34:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ANPTS-0007pz-Mg for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 23:34:23 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAM4YMDb029938 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 23:34:22 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ANPTQ-0007mn-Fp for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 23:34:20 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA19134 for ; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 23:34:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ANPTO-0007KE-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 23:34:18 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ANPTN-0007KB-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 23:34:17 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ANPT9-0007g9-Vd; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 23:34:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ANPSd-0007fN-RB for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 23:33:31 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA19107 for ; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 23:33:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ANPSb-0007JW-00 for manet@ietf.org; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 23:33:29 -0500 Received: from postoffice01.princeton.edu ([128.112.129.75] helo=Princeton.EDU ident=root) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ANPSa-0007JT-00 for manet@ietf.org; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 23:33:28 -0500 Received: from smtpserver1.Princeton.EDU (smtpserver1.Princeton.EDU [128.112.129.65]) by Princeton.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAM4XS3f023728 for ; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 23:33:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from Princeton.EDU (mailserver2.Princeton.EDU [128.112.128.25]) by smtpserver1.Princeton.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAM4XShc002840 for ; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 23:33:28 -0500 (EST) From: "Ioannis C. Avramopoulos" Received: from mmp01.Princeton.EDU[128.112.128.133] by imap2.Princeton.EDU (mshttpd); Fri, 21 Nov 2003 23:33:28 -0500 To: manet@ietf.org Message-ID: <1fb247f1fb8180.1fb81801fb247f@Princeton.EDU> Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 23:33:28 -0500 X-Mailer: iPlanet Messenger Express 5.2 HotFix 1.12 (built Feb 13 2003) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Language: en X-Accept-Language: en Priority: normal Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [manet] MAC layer Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear fellows, I have a question on the MAC layer used in ad hoc networks. In 802.11 nodes share the medium, i.e. they use the same frequency hopping pattern or chip sequence. Had nodes used orthogonal hopping patterns, spectrum utilization would significantly increase and, furthermore, the impact of malicious nodes with respect to jamming would be severely mitigated. I am interested in the reasons that schemes of the latter type are not considered in the ad hoc community. I would appreciate it if you could point me to any papers discussing such issues. Kind regards, Yannis _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Sat Nov 22 00:18:05 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA20505 for ; Sat, 22 Nov 2003 00:18:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ANQ9T-0001sc-4o for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sat, 22 Nov 2003 00:17:48 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAM5HkNS007218 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sat, 22 Nov 2003 00:17:46 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ANQ9O-0001sG-Qv for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Sat, 22 Nov 2003 00:17:42 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA20481 for ; Sat, 22 Nov 2003 00:17:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ANQ9I-0000BH-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 22 Nov 2003 00:17:36 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ANQ9I-0000BE-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 22 Nov 2003 00:17:36 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ANQ8n-0001ns-64; Sat, 22 Nov 2003 00:17:05 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ANQ8J-0001nA-OW for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Sat, 22 Nov 2003 00:16:35 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA20462 for ; Sat, 22 Nov 2003 00:16:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ANQ8G-0000Aj-00 for manet@ietf.org; Sat, 22 Nov 2003 00:16:32 -0500 Received: from mbox1.ntu.edu.sg ([155.69.5.171]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ANQ8F-00008O-00 for manet@ietf.org; Sat, 22 Nov 2003 00:16:32 -0500 Received: from mail03.student.main.ntu.edu.sg ([155.69.5.167]) by mbox1.ntu.edu.sg with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5576); Sat, 22 Nov 2003 13:03:22 +0800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.6944.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-2022-jp" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 13:03:19 +0800 Message-ID: <052033A55521254893A4E2041957E1D05C4440@mail03.student.main.ntu.edu.sg> Thread-Topic: About one script for experiments in NS-2 Thread-Index: AcOwtfJq6yfVS2SWSdmIrGhWVSEk3g== From: "#LI ZHUOWEI#" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Nov 2003 05:03:22.0320 (UTC) FILETIME=[F3D99D00:01C3B0B5] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [manet] About one script for experiments in NS-2 Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Everybody, I am a novice in NS-2 and MANET research, and I want to apply some machine learning or data mining techniques to strengthern the security in MANET. Do you know some typical scripts in NS-2 to simulate the real environments for MANET, such as packets loss, packet delay, and other anomalous situation in correct protocol implementation? What's more, is there any scripts which simulate the typical instrusions/anomalies in MANET? In other words, I want to get the existing scripts which can generate synthetic normal and anomalous/intrusive datasets. Thank you Regards! Sincerely yours, Li Zhuowei **************************************************************************** ****** Title: Ph.D. candidate ****** Email: zhwei.li@pmail.ntu.edu.sg ****** Home: http://www.cais.ntu.edu.sg/‾zhuowei ****** or http://www.ntu.edu.sg/home5/pg01316106 **************************************************************************** 　 _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Sat Nov 22 06:01:37 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA08734 for ; Sat, 22 Nov 2003 06:01:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ANVVx-0002ir-82 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sat, 22 Nov 2003 06:01:21 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAMB1LJ7010459 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sat, 22 Nov 2003 06:01:21 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ANVVx-0002ic-24 for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Sat, 22 Nov 2003 06:01:21 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA08725 for ; Sat, 22 Nov 2003 06:01:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ANVVt-0003Mq-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 22 Nov 2003 06:01:17 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ANVVs-0003Mn-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 22 Nov 2003 06:01:16 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ANVVe-0002hU-Oz; Sat, 22 Nov 2003 06:01:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ANVVT-0002go-RL for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Sat, 22 Nov 2003 06:00:51 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA08713 for ; Sat, 22 Nov 2003 06:00:37 -0500 (EST) From: kiran.challapali@philips.com Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ANVVQ-0003Mj-00 for manet@ietf.org; Sat, 22 Nov 2003 06:00:48 -0500 Received: from gw-us1.philips.com ([63.114.235.94]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ANVVP-0003Mb-00 for manet@ietf.org; Sat, 22 Nov 2003 06:00:47 -0500 Received: from smtpscan-us1.philips.com (smtpscan-us1.philips.com [167.81.233.25]) by gw-us1.philips.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 456EB59462 for ; Sat, 22 Nov 2003 05:00:47 -0600 (CST) Received: from smtpscan-us1.philips.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost.philips.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A20619C49 for ; Sat, 22 Nov 2003 05:00:46 -0600 (CST) Received: from smtprelay-us1.philips.com (smtprelay-nam2.philips.com [167.81.233.16]) by smtpscan-us1.philips.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2463919C42 for ; Sat, 22 Nov 2003 05:00:46 -0600 (CST) Received: from arj001soh.diamond.philips.com (amsoh01.diamond.philips.com [161.88.79.79]) by smtprelay-us1.philips.com (8.9.3p3/8.8.5-1.2.2m-19990317) with ESMTP id FAA07948 for ; Sat, 22 Nov 2003 05:00:45 -0600 (CST) To: manet@ietf.org Message-ID: Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 05:02:09 -0600 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on arj001soh/H/SERVER/PHILIPS(Release 5.0.11 |July 24, 2002) at 22/11/2003 05:02:19 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [manet] Kiran Challapali/BRQ/RESEARCH/PHILIPS is out of the office. Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , I will be out of the office starting 2003-11-21 and will not return until 2003-12-15. I will respond to your message when I return. _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Sun Nov 23 16:16:34 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA00041 for ; Sun, 23 Nov 2003 16:16:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AO1ab-0003Gr-3C for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 23 Nov 2003 16:16:17 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hANLGHAW012569 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 23 Nov 2003 16:16:17 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AO1aa-0003Ge-Ru for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 23 Nov 2003 16:16:16 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA00034 for ; Sun, 23 Nov 2003 16:16:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AO1aZ-0007I4-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 23 Nov 2003 16:16:15 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AO1aY-0007I0-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 23 Nov 2003 16:16:14 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AO1aM-0003FV-Hf; Sun, 23 Nov 2003 16:16:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AO1Zb-0003F0-L9 for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 23 Nov 2003 16:15:15 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA00024 for ; Sun, 23 Nov 2003 16:15:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AO1ZZ-0007Hq-00 for manet@ietf.org; Sun, 23 Nov 2003 16:15:13 -0500 Received: from mail.zero.ou.edu ([129.15.0.75] helo=r2d2.ou.edu) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AO1ZZ-0007Hj-00 for manet@ietf.org; Sun, 23 Nov 2003 16:15:13 -0500 Received: from conversion-daemon.r2d2.ou.edu by r2d2.ou.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.16 (built May 14 2003)) id <0HOT00901POBJ7@r2d2.ou.edu> for manet@ietf.org; Sun, 23 Nov 2003 15:14:43 -0600 (CST) Received: from han (han_priv_VIP [192.168.11.58]) by r2d2.ou.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.16 (built May 14 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HOT004M0POJNA@r2d2.ou.edu> for manet@ietf.org; Sun, 23 Nov 2003 15:14:43 -0600 (CST) Received: from ou.edu (han [192.168.11.21]) by han.ou.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.16 (built May 14 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HOT004REPOJ4Y@han.ou.edu> for manet@ietf.org; Sun, 23 Nov 2003 15:14:43 -0600 (CST) Received: from [192.168.26.40] by han.ou.edu (mshttpd); Sun, 23 Nov 2003 15:14:43 -0600 Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2003 15:14:43 -0600 From: "Prasanna.Padmanabhan-1" To: manet@ietf.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: iPlanet Messenger Express 5.2 HotFix 1.16 (built May 14 2003) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-language: en Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline X-Accept-Language: en Priority: normal Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Subject: [manet] Bandwidth vs Transmission Range Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hello Everyone, In one of the WLAN cards (Wireless LAN Mini PCI Type 3A card), I see that for higher bandwidth cards they offer, the transmission range decreases. For example, a 1 Mbps WLAN card has a tranmission range of 550m, a 2 Mbps WLAN card has a tranmission range of 400m, a 11 Mbps WLAN card has a tranmission range of 160m. Does that mean that bandwidth and transmission range are inversely proportional. I understand transmission range is related to Power. But how is it related to Bandwidth? Please let me know. Thanks, Prasanna _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Sun Nov 23 23:27:27 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA10878 for ; Sun, 23 Nov 2003 23:27:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AO8Ja-00039A-2v for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 23 Nov 2003 23:27:10 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAO4RAGJ012092 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 23 Nov 2003 23:27:10 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AO8JZ-00038x-W3 for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 23 Nov 2003 23:27:10 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA10870 for ; Sun, 23 Nov 2003 23:26:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AO8JX-0004h1-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 23 Nov 2003 23:27:07 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AO8JX-0004gy-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 23 Nov 2003 23:27:07 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AO8JS-00037x-3s; Sun, 23 Nov 2003 23:27:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AO8J1-00033q-9w for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 23 Nov 2003 23:26:35 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA10842 for ; Sun, 23 Nov 2003 23:26:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AO8Iz-0004gA-00 for manet@ietf.org; Sun, 23 Nov 2003 23:26:33 -0500 Received: from web13201.mail.yahoo.com ([216.136.174.186]) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AO8Iy-0004g7-00 for manet@ietf.org; Sun, 23 Nov 2003 23:26:32 -0500 Message-ID: <20031124042632.32546.qmail@web13201.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [64.228.193.226] by web13201.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 04:26:32 GMT Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 04:26:32 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Ngoc=20Ca?= To: manet@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-129367902-1069647992=:31216" Subject: [manet] Example codes in Glomosim Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , --0-129367902-1069647992=:31216 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ietf.org id XAA10844 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear all, I am a student and doing a small project of ad hoc networking course. In = this project we have to do with Glomosim but my professor gives us nothin= g about it.=20 =20 Since we only have 2 weeks to suggest and do the project, I want to find some helps from you. I want to know whether I can find the exampl= es of programming in glomosim so that I can begin my work easily.=20 Your reply is highly appreciated! Best regards --------------------------------- Want to chat instantly with your online friends?=A0Get the FREE Yahoo!Mes= senger --0-129367902-1069647992=:31216 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ietf.org id XAA10844 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear all,

I am a student and doing a small project of ad= hoc networking course. In this project we have to do with Glomosim but m= y professor gives us nothing about it.
 
Since we only have 2 weeks to suggest and do the project, I want
= to find some helps from you. I want to know whether I can find the exampl= es of programming in glomosim so that I can begin my work easily.

Your reply is highly appreciated!

Best regards
<= p>
Want to chat instantly wit= h your online friends?=A0Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger --0-129367902-1069647992=:31216-- _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 24 00:21:38 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA12017 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 00:21:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AO9A0-0005MM-85 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 00:21:21 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAO5LKJC020594 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 00:21:20 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AO9A0-0005M5-2o for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 00:21:20 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA12001 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 00:21:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AO99x-0005tB-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 00:21:17 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AO99x-0005t5-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 00:21:17 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AO99l-0005E0-2j; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 00:21:05 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AO99A-0005DF-JF for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 00:20:28 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA11984 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 00:20:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AO998-0005sa-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 00:20:26 -0500 Received: from mbox1.ntu.edu.sg ([155.69.5.171]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AO997-0005sJ-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 00:20:25 -0500 Received: from mail01.student.main.ntu.edu.sg ([155.69.5.165]) by mbox1.ntu.edu.sg with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5576); Mon, 24 Nov 2003 13:13:11 +0800 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [manet] MAC layer X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.6944.0 Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 13:13:13 +0800 Message-ID: <3D565922795545468AE3E3DA2881BEA901F85BDF@mail01.student.main.ntu.edu.sg> Thread-Topic: [manet] MAC layer Thread-Index: AcOwshq7D2yw3lKXQeOR2di6qGLDowBlF2Lg From: "#LI ZHIFEI#" To: "Ioannis C. Avramopoulos" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Nov 2003 05:13:11.0500 (UTC) FILETIME=[A7DAD8C0:01C3B249] Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, I think your question is: why CDMA is not used in ad hoc networks? I = also try to figure out the reasons. I have the following reasons:=20 (1) since ad hoc network is fully distributed, how to make the code = orthogonal, and how to make the sender be aware of the code it should = use before transmitting? (2) again, due to the distributed nature, how to do the power control to = cope with the inteference which is ensential for cdma system? However, the above difficulties do not mean that we should not try to = apply CDMA into ad hoc networks. In fact, there is a paper talking about = CDMA in ad hoc networks=20 in mobihoc 2003. The author is also on this list, and maybe he can give = us his understanding. Also, it seems that in the literature about packet radio networks ( ad = hoc networks developed for military use during 1970s), they normally use = CDMA for security reason (i.e., jamming as you have mentioned). However, = now there are very few papers talking about CDMA in ad hoc networks. = Reasearch is really a little bit strange :). Best regards Li zhifei -----Original Message----- From: manet-admin@ietf.org [mailto:manet-admin@ietf.org]On Behalf Of = Ioannis C. Avramopoulos Sent: dissabte, 22 / novembre / 2003 12:33 To: manet@ietf.org Subject: [manet] MAC layer Dear fellows, I have a question on the MAC layer used in ad hoc networks. In 802.11 nodes share the medium, i.e. they use the same frequency hopping pattern or chip sequence. Had nodes used orthogonal hopping patterns, spectrum utilization would significantly increase and, furthermore, the impact of malicious nodes with respect to jamming would be severely=20 mitigated. I am interested in the reasons that schemes of the latter type are not considered in the ad hoc community. I would appreciate it if you could point me to any papers discussing such issues. Kind regards, Yannis _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 24 00:21:41 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA12038 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 00:21:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AO9A0-0005Ma-Ax for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 00:21:21 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAO5LK4G020610 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 00:21:20 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AO9A0-0005MC-6T for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 00:21:20 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA12002 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 00:21:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AO99x-0005t8-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 00:21:17 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AO99w-0005t4-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 00:21:16 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AO99j-0005Dm-Os; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 00:21:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AO998-0005D5-OQ for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 00:20:26 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA11977 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 00:20:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AO996-0005sP-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 00:20:24 -0500 Received: from mbox1.ntu.edu.sg ([155.69.5.171]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AO995-0005sJ-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 00:20:23 -0500 Received: from mail01.student.main.ntu.edu.sg ([155.69.5.165]) by mbox1.ntu.edu.sg with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5576); Mon, 24 Nov 2003 12:48:37 +0800 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [manet] Bandwidth vs Transmission Range X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.6944.0 Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 12:48:39 +0800 Message-ID: <3D565922795545468AE3E3DA2881BEA901F85BDD@mail01.student.main.ntu.edu.sg> Thread-Topic: [manet] Bandwidth vs Transmission Range Thread-Index: AcOyB8it2JpvQmNhRt26VSkLXwt8cQAPbcPw From: "#LI ZHIFEI#" To: "Prasanna.Padmanabhan-1" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Nov 2003 04:48:37.0294 (UTC) FILETIME=[3928DCE0:01C3B246] Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable hi, I think the reason is: for higher transmission rate you need a higher = SNR to receive the packet correctly. The SNR=20 in turn depends on the distance between the communicating pair if all = the other stuff are assumed as the same. Therefore, when a higher transmission rate is used, the effective = transmission range should decrease. Best regards li zhifei -----Original Message----- From: manet-admin@ietf.org [mailto:manet-admin@ietf.org]On Behalf Of = Prasanna.Padmanabhan-1 Sent: dilluns, 24 / novembre / 2003 05:15 To: manet@ietf.org Subject: [manet] Bandwidth vs Transmission Range Hello Everyone, In one of the WLAN cards (Wireless LAN Mini PCI Type 3A card), I see = that for higher bandwidth cards they offer, the transmission range = decreases. For example, a 1 Mbps WLAN card has a tranmission range of 550m, a 2 Mbps WLAN card has a tranmission range of 400m, a 11 Mbps WLAN card has a tranmission range of 160m. Does that mean that bandwidth and transmission range are inversely = proportional. I understand transmission range is related to Power. But how is it = related to Bandwidth? Please let me know. Thanks, Prasanna _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 24 01:04:30 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA13521 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 01:04:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AO9pV-0007Uv-TW for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 01:04:14 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAO64DIt028815 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 01:04:13 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AO9pV-0007So-OW for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 01:04:13 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA13493 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 01:03:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AO9pS-0006Vw-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 01:04:10 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AO9pS-0006Vt-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 01:04:10 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AO9pJ-0007Mf-EF; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 01:04:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AO9p1-0007L9-D4 for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 01:03:43 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA13463 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 01:03:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AO9oy-0006Vb-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 01:03:40 -0500 Received: from mail11.ntu.edu.sg ([155.69.5.163]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AO9ox-0006Ur-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 01:03:40 -0500 Received: from mail01.student.main.ntu.edu.sg ([155.69.5.165]) by mail11.ntu.edu.sg with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5576); Mon, 24 Nov 2003 13:33:18 +0800 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [manet] Simulating 802.11b and g X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.6944.0 Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 13:33:20 +0800 Message-ID: <3D565922795545468AE3E3DA2881BEA901F85BE2@mail01.student.main.ntu.edu.sg> Thread-Topic: [manet] Simulating 802.11b and g Thread-Index: AcOtu2xOu/bT6oxEQxuyARTjNBUdtgABXIyQASJYYAA= From: "#LI ZHIFEI#" To: "Frank Li" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Nov 2003 05:33:18.0749 (UTC) FILETIME=[776E6CD0:01C3B24C] Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, frank Here is my answer to your question though my answer is definitely not = 'autoritative' as you are looking for :): Whenever the received power of a frame is above the CS threshold and the = channel is sensed as busy, whether or not the PLCP header of that frame can be received correctly = depends on how large the carrier sensing energy threshold is. If the threshold is large enough, the PLCP header can = always be interpreted. Otherwise, there is some possibility that the = PLCP is un-interpretable. However, since the PLCP header is very short and is always transmitted in the lowest = rate, the probability that the PLCP header is interpretable should be = very large. This is especially true if the wireless card developers = follow the recommented value of the threshold in the standard.=20 I hope this will help. Best regards Li zhifei >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me repeat the same question in my previous mail. Assume the received = power is just above the CS threshold and the channel is sensed as busy. = Does this mean that the PHY header (PMD/PLCP) can be correctly decoded = but not the MPDU, or even the PHY header itself can NOT be decoded? Can = anyone give me an 'authoritative' answer to this point? Thanks. Frank -----Original Message----- From: manet-admin@ietf.org [mailto:manet-admin@ietf.org]On Behalf Of = Frank Li Sent: dimarts, 18 / novembre / 2003 20:10 To: Claude Chaudet Cc: manet@ietf.org Subject: RE: [manet] Simulating 802.11b and g Hi Claude,=20 I guess you are using two-ray model with 'receiver sensitivity' -83 dBm = and Tx power 15 dBm to get the following CS threshold. Phy/WirelessPhy set CSThresh_ 5.011872e-12 My question is - is it sensible to use 'receiver sensitivity' to = calculate CS threshold? (Using the same calculation for -94 dBm at 1 = Mbps, the sensing range will be 796 m). Furthermore, does the CS threshold mean that the PHY header can be = correctly decoded if received power is above the threshold, or the = channel is sensed as busy but the PHY header can NOT be decoded?=20 BTW, CPThresh is the capture threshold, not required SNR to 'understand' = the frame. When multiple frames are detected, the frame with strongest = power (CPThresh>10) will be decoded, otherwise, all frames are = discarded.=20 BR Frank =20 -----Original Message----- From: Claude Chaudet [mailto:Claude.Chaudet@ens-lyon.fr] Sent: 18. november 2003 10:59 To: Emmanuel Agu Cc: manet@ietf.org Subject: Re: [manet] Simulating 802.11b and g Hello, That's true, NS (at least version 2.26) simulates 2Mbps 802.11. Nevertheless, you can change this by simply putting in your script the=20 following lines : Mac/802_11 set bandwidth_ 11e6 Mac/802_11 set dataRate_ 11e6 Mac/802_11 set basicRate_ 2e6 This only changes the rate at which data is sent. This can be useful=20 for simulating 802.11b protocol, for which only the physical layer changes. But=20 simulating 802.11a will need at least some timings modifications in the mac/mac-802_11.*=20 files. Concerning the physical layer parameters, I tried to update some=20 parameters based on the specification of an Avaya card. Nevertheless, being no expert in=20 physical layers, I cannot guarantee this will be the exact parameters. Here they are : Phy/WirelessPhy set CPThresh_ 10.0 Phy/WirelessPhy set CSThresh_ 5.011872e-12 Phy/WirelessPhy set RXThresh_ 1.15209e-10 Phy/WirelessPhy set Rb_ 11e6 Phy/WirelessPhy set bandwidth_ 11e6 Phy/WirelessPhy set Pt_ 0.031622777 Phy/WirelessPhy set freq_ 2457e+6 Phy/WirelessPhy set L_ 1.0 Concerning this, I wondered if anyone on this list could provide good=20 values once and for all, so that we can use ns, opnet and any other simulator on=20 the same basis. I am especially interested in the CPThresh parameter, i.e. the signal=20 over noise ratio (in dB) required to understand a frame. I found no value in any=20 NIC specification. I suppose it depends on the physical layer. 10 dB was used for early=20 802.11, is it still the good value for newer ones ? Claude Chaudet. _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 24 01:58:28 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA14798 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 01:58:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOAfk-0001xU-HM for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 01:58:12 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAO6wC34007528 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 01:58:12 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOAfk-0001xL-Bx for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 01:58:12 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA14780 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 01:57:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOAfg-00075t-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 01:58:08 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOAfg-00075q-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 01:58:08 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOAfZ-0001tN-In; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 01:58:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOAf5-0001t5-Tz for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 01:57:32 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA14777 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 01:57:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOAf2-00075e-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 01:57:28 -0500 Received: from wasp.ece.queensu.ca ([130.15.22.4]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOAf2-00075b-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 01:57:28 -0500 Received: from Acer100 ([24.226.32.182]) by wasp.ECE.QUEENSU.CA with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Mon, 24 Nov 2003 01:58:11 -0500 From: "Chi-Hsiang Yeh" To: "'#LI ZHIFEI#'" , "'Ioannis C. Avramopoulos'" , Subject: RE: [manet] MAC layer Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 01:57:02 -0500 Message-ID: <002401c3b258$2d0bf390$6ea8fea9@Acer100> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <3D565922795545468AE3E3DA2881BEA901F85BDF@mail01.student.main.ntu.edu.sg> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Nov 2003 06:58:11.0375 (UTC) FILETIME=[52DF7BF0:01C3B258] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Zhifei, > I think your question is: why CDMA is not used in ad hoc networks? I also try to figure out the reasons. I have the following reasons: (1) since ad hoc network is fully distributed, how to make the code orthogonal, and how to make the sender be aware of the code it should use before transmitting? Transmissions cannot be made orthogonal in MANET even if orthogonal codes are known and used by nearby nodes and all nodes are perfectly synchronized. The reason is that propagation delays will make the beginning of codes arrive at a node at different times. Some previous papers assumed that nearby clusters used orthogonal codes and would not interfere with each other. Such assumptions are not valid when the chip rate is moderate or high (e.g., >= 1 M chips per second). But in my opinion, this will not necessarily prohibit CDMA from being used in ad hoc networks. You can still use a set of codes that have small cross-correlation. Regards, Chihsiang _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 24 02:57:41 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA28935 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 02:57:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOBav-00072t-MX for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 02:57:23 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAO7vHM7027078 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 02:57:17 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOBau-00072c-Ui for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 02:57:16 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA28881 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 02:57:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOBaq-00001r-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 02:57:13 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOBaq-00001o-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 02:57:12 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOBah-0006xQ-18; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 02:57:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOBZs-0006u0-52 for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 02:56:12 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA28861 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 02:55:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOBZo-00001C-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 02:56:08 -0500 Received: from [202.131.133.36] (helo=kongu.ac.in) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOBZm-00000w-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 02:56:07 -0500 Received: from kongu.ac.in (kongu.ac.in [127.0.0.1] (may be forged)) by kongu.ac.in (8.12.8/8.12.5) with ESMTP id hAO7h3iL028464 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 13:13:08 +0530 From: "20ece75" To: manet@ietf.org Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 13:13:03 +0530 Message-Id: <20031124073916.M69605@kongu.ac.in> X-Mailer: KEC WebMail 2.10 20030622 X-OriginatingIP: 202.131.133.42 (srinivasan_raja) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: [manet] Fuzzy routing -possible or not? Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , hi, I am a new memer to the MANET group. I am doing a project on manet Routing. I have a question that fuzzy algorithms can be used in manet routing? If so please suggest where it can be used. Kind regards, K.Srinivasan. _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 24 03:14:29 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA29309 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 03:14:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOBrI-0008Dj-F5 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 03:14:12 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAO8ECd3031593 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 03:14:12 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOBrH-0008DU-DV for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 03:14:11 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA29298 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 03:13:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOBrF-0000Fb-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 03:14:09 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOBrE-0000FY-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 03:14:08 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOBr8-00089R-CJ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 03:14:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOBqg-00084G-Cz for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 03:13:34 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA29280 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 03:13:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOBqe-0000F9-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 03:13:32 -0500 Received: from web8205.mail.in.yahoo.com ([203.199.70.126]) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOBqd-0000Es-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 03:13:31 -0500 Message-ID: <20031124081300.20080.qmail@web8205.mail.in.yahoo.com> Received: from [203.201.200.249] by web8205.mail.in.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 08:13:00 GMT Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 08:13:00 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Jitesh=20Shah?= Subject: Re: [manet] Fuzzy routing -possible or not? To: 20ece75 , manet@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <20031124073916.M69605@kongu.ac.in> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Srinivasan, A lot of fuzzy techniches have been used in routing schemes for MANETS. Not only to the routing schemes but also to the secure routing schemes. I also remember oing through a paper with substantial work on deriving transmited power level on some fuzzy principle but am not sure about its usability due to various assumptions involved. Rgds Jitesh --- 20ece75 wrote: > hi, > I am a new memer to the MANET group. > > I am doing a project on manet Routing. > I have a question that fuzzy algorithms can be > used in manet routing? > If so please suggest where it can be used. > > Kind regards, > > K.Srinivasan. > > > > _______________________________________________ > manet mailing list > manet@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet ________________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! India Mobile: Download the latest polyphonic ringtones. Go to http://in.mobile.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 24 08:42:25 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA07863 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 08:42:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOGyf-0001kS-4j for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 08:42:09 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAODg9Ja006714 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 08:42:09 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOGyf-0001kD-0b for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 08:42:09 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA07857 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 08:41:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOGyd-0004zZ-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 08:42:07 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOGyd-0004zW-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 08:42:07 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOGyY-0001j9-7N; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 08:42:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOGxl-0001f7-FD for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 08:41:13 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA07709 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 08:40:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOGxk-0004ym-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 08:41:12 -0500 Received: from london.unik.no ([193.156.97.32]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOGxj-0004w0-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 08:41:11 -0500 Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 Subject: RE: [manet] Simulating 802.11b and g Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 14:40:36 +0100 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [manet] Simulating 802.11b and g thread-index: AcOtu2xOu/bT6oxEQxuyARTjNBUdtgABXIyQASJYYAAAEVBTEA== From: "Frank Li" To: "#LI ZHIFEI#" Cc: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Zhifei, I think you are talking about the PMD_ED and PMD_CS thresholds in the = standard. Is it always=20 true that PMD_CS < PMD_ED? Do you know the concrete values of PMD_CS and = PMD_ED thresholds for any wlan card? Furthermore, is it correct to use = 'receiver sensitivity' to calculate sensing range?=20 Frank -----Original Message----- From: #LI ZHIFEI# [mailto:zhifeili@pmail.ntu.edu.sg] Sent: 24. november 2003 06:33 To: Frank Li; manet@ietf.org Subject: RE: [manet] Simulating 802.11b and g Hi, frank Here is my answer to your question though my answer is definitely not = 'autoritative' as you are looking for :): Whenever the received power of a frame is above the CS threshold and the = channel is sensed as busy, whether or not the PLCP header of that frame can be received correctly = depends on how large the carrier sensing energy threshold is. If the threshold is large enough, the PLCP header can = always be interpreted. Otherwise, there is some possibility that the = PLCP is un-interpretable. However, since the PLCP header is very short and is always transmitted in the lowest = rate, the probability that the PLCP header is interpretable should be = very large. This is especially true if the wireless card developers = follow the recommented value of the threshold in the standard.=20 I hope this will help. Best regards Li zhifei >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me repeat the same question in my previous mail. Assume the received = power is just above the CS threshold and the channel is sensed as busy. = Does this mean that the PHY header (PMD/PLCP) can be correctly decoded = but not the MPDU, or even the PHY header itself can NOT be decoded? Can = anyone give me an 'authoritative' answer to this point? Thanks. Frank -----Original Message----- From: manet-admin@ietf.org [mailto:manet-admin@ietf.org]On Behalf Of = Frank Li Sent: dimarts, 18 / novembre / 2003 20:10 To: Claude Chaudet Cc: manet@ietf.org Subject: RE: [manet] Simulating 802.11b and g Hi Claude,=20 I guess you are using two-ray model with 'receiver sensitivity' -83 dBm = and Tx power 15 dBm to get the following CS threshold. Phy/WirelessPhy set CSThresh_ 5.011872e-12 My question is - is it sensible to use 'receiver sensitivity' to = calculate CS threshold? (Using the same calculation for -94 dBm at 1 = Mbps, the sensing range will be 796 m). Furthermore, does the CS threshold mean that the PHY header can be = correctly decoded if received power is above the threshold, or the = channel is sensed as busy but the PHY header can NOT be decoded?=20 BTW, CPThresh is the capture threshold, not required SNR to 'understand' = the frame. When multiple frames are detected, the frame with strongest = power (CPThresh>10) will be decoded, otherwise, all frames are = discarded.=20 BR Frank =20 -----Original Message----- From: Claude Chaudet [mailto:Claude.Chaudet@ens-lyon.fr] Sent: 18. november 2003 10:59 To: Emmanuel Agu Cc: manet@ietf.org Subject: Re: [manet] Simulating 802.11b and g Hello, That's true, NS (at least version 2.26) simulates 2Mbps 802.11. Nevertheless, you can change this by simply putting in your script the=20 following lines : Mac/802_11 set bandwidth_ 11e6 Mac/802_11 set dataRate_ 11e6 Mac/802_11 set basicRate_ 2e6 This only changes the rate at which data is sent. This can be useful=20 for simulating 802.11b protocol, for which only the physical layer changes. But=20 simulating 802.11a will need at least some timings modifications in the mac/mac-802_11.*=20 files. Concerning the physical layer parameters, I tried to update some=20 parameters based on the specification of an Avaya card. Nevertheless, being no expert in=20 physical layers, I cannot guarantee this will be the exact parameters. Here they are : Phy/WirelessPhy set CPThresh_ 10.0 Phy/WirelessPhy set CSThresh_ 5.011872e-12 Phy/WirelessPhy set RXThresh_ 1.15209e-10 Phy/WirelessPhy set Rb_ 11e6 Phy/WirelessPhy set bandwidth_ 11e6 Phy/WirelessPhy set Pt_ 0.031622777 Phy/WirelessPhy set freq_ 2457e+6 Phy/WirelessPhy set L_ 1.0 Concerning this, I wondered if anyone on this list could provide good=20 values once and for all, so that we can use ns, opnet and any other simulator on=20 the same basis. I am especially interested in the CPThresh parameter, i.e. the signal=20 over noise ratio (in dB) required to understand a frame. I found no value in any=20 NIC specification. I suppose it depends on the physical layer. 10 dB was used for early=20 802.11, is it still the good value for newer ones ? Claude Chaudet. _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 24 09:27:42 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA09267 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 09:27:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOHgU-0004I3-CA for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 09:27:27 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAOERQeX016485 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 09:27:26 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOHgU-0004Ho-8D for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 09:27:26 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA09221 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 09:27:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOHgS-0005u4-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 09:27:24 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOHgS-0005u1-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 09:27:24 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOHg5-0004AR-Uf; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 09:27:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOHff-00049P-Eb for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 09:26:35 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA09202 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 09:26:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOHfd-0005tC-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 09:26:33 -0500 Received: from mailswitch2.city.ac.uk ([138.40.12.5]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOHfd-0005t9-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 09:26:33 -0500 Received: from [138.40.12.12] (helo=mailswitch) by mailswitch2 with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #8) id 1AOHh3-0007RZ-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 14:28:01 +0000 Received: from eeipc197.city.ac.uk ([138.40.163.23] helo=CITY) by mailswitch with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #5) id 1AOHfX-0002ey-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 14:26:27 +0000 From: "Ehsan Hamadani" To: Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 14:25:10 -0000 Message-ID: <000001c3b296$c746f2a0$17a3288a@CITY> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C3B296.C7487940" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 Importance: Normal Subject: [manet] Quetion on RREP Packet Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C3B296.C7487940 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all I am a PhD student and it is just about 2 months that I have started my research on Ad-Hoc networks. My question is that in all reactive routing protocols, we assume that RREP follows the reverse path in which RREP has arrived, so what will happen if in the return path one of the links are broken?? Does the destination start a routing discovery to destination? I would be thankful if someone can answer me. Regards Ehsan ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C3B296.C7487940 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi all

I am a PhD student and it is just about 2 months that = I have started my research on Ad-Hoc networks.

My question is that in all reactive routing = protocols, we assume that RREP follows the reverse path in which RREP has arrived, so = what will happen if in the return path one of the links are broken?? Does the destination start a routing discovery to = destination?

 

I would be thankful if someone can answer = me.

 

Regards

 

Ehsan  =

 

------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C3B296.C7487940-- _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 24 09:44:26 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA09846 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 09:44:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOHwh-0005vh-7X for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 09:44:11 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAOEiBGK022787 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 09:44:11 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOHwh-0005vS-2v for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 09:44:11 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA09822 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 09:43:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOHwf-00069I-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 09:44:09 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOHwe-00069E-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 09:44:08 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOHwX-0005qH-UE; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 09:44:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOHw1-0005ms-P9 for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 09:43:29 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA09801 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 09:43:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOHvz-00068z-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 09:43:27 -0500 Received: from mailswitch2.city.ac.uk ([138.40.12.5]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOHvz-00068w-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 09:43:27 -0500 Received: from [138.40.12.12] (helo=mailswitch) by mailswitch2 with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #8) id 1AOHxT-00018E-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 14:44:59 +0000 Received: from eeipc197.city.ac.uk ([138.40.163.23] helo=CITY) by mailswitch with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #5) id 1AOHvw-0003CI-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 14:43:24 +0000 From: "Ehsan Hamadani" To: Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 14:42:11 -0000 Message-ID: <000201c3b299$254a69c0$17a3288a@CITY> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0003_01C3B299.254A69C0" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 Importance: Normal Subject: [manet] question on RREP Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C3B299.254A69C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sorry , in the third line I made a mistake by using RREP, it should be RREQ. So this is my question : Hi all I am a PhD student and it is just about 2 months that I have started my research on Ad-Hoc networks. My question is that in all reactive routing protocols, we assume that RREP follows the reverse path in which RREQ has arrived, so what will happen if in the return path one of the links are broken?? Does the destination start a routing discovery to destination? I would be thankful if someone can answer me. Regards Ehsan ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C3B299.254A69C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Sorry = , in the third line I made a mistake by using RREP, it should be RREQ. So this is = my question :

 

Hi all

I am a PhD student and it is just about 2 months that = I have started my research on Ad-Hoc networks.

My question is that in all reactive routing = protocols, we assume that RREP follows the reverse path in which RREQ has arrived, so = what will happen if in the return path one of the links are broken?? Does the destination start a routing discovery to = destination?

 

I would be thankful if someone can answer = me.

 

Regards

 

Ehsan  =

 

------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C3B299.254A69C0-- _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 24 09:52:36 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA10109 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 09:52:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOI4Z-0006ln-M0 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 09:52:21 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAOEqJ06026017 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 09:52:19 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOI4Y-0006lU-Rc for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 09:52:18 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA10097 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 09:52:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOI4W-0006I2-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 09:52:16 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOI4W-0006Hw-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 09:52:16 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOI4H-0006az-Ay; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 09:52:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOI3R-0006aU-Bt for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 09:51:09 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA10068 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 09:50:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOI3P-0006HQ-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 09:51:07 -0500 Received: from slb-smtpout-01.boeing.com ([130.76.64.48]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOI3O-0006HN-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 09:51:06 -0500 Received: from slb-av-02.boeing.com ([129.172.13.7]) by slb-smtpout-01.boeing.com (8.9.2.MG.10092003/8.8.5-M2) with ESMTP id GAA06285; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 06:51:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from blv-hub-01.boeing.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slb-av-02.boeing.com (8.9.3/8.9.2/MBS-AV-02) with ESMTP id GAA20963; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 06:51:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from xch-nebh-01.ne.nos.boeing.com (xch-nebh-01.ne.nos.boeing.com [128.225.80.200]) by blv-hub-01.boeing.com (8.11.3/8.11.3/MBS-LDAP-01) with ESMTP id hAOEmYq22879; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 06:48:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from XCH-NE-02.ne.nos.boeing.com ([128.225.80.202]) by xch-nebh-01.ne.nos.boeing.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6662); Mon, 24 Nov 2003 09:47:51 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [manet] MAC layer Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 09:47:50 -0500 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [manet] MAC layer Thread-Index: AcOwshq7D2yw3lKXQeOR2di6qGLDowBlF2LgABRCOeA= From: "Manfredi, Albert E" To: "Ioannis C. Avramopoulos" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Nov 2003 14:47:51.0371 (UTC) FILETIME=[EF75A1B0:01C3B299] Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Guys, I think Yannis is asking something different. CDMA, exactly as implemented in 2G and 3G cellular networks, is of = course not used in IEEE 802.11. For one thing, IEEE 802.11 is not a = circuit-based technique. But the fundamentals of the scheme, i.e. use of = direct sequence spread spectrum, are indeed used in IEEE 802.11b. I think what Yannis was asking is why aren't individual 802.11 LANs = differentiated by the spreading sequence used in creating chips out of = bits, as done in CDMA cellular phones. Instead of differentiating purely = on the basis of the carrier frequency. You don't use perfectly orthogonal codes in CDMA, as that would require = synchronized transmissions, impossible to achieve when mobile hosts move = about. But that doesn't stop 2G and 3G from working. What happens is, as = more and more users share the same frequncy band, the noise level for = each user increases, until the noise overwhelms the channel. So you have = a soft ceiling on number of users that can share a frequncy band, unlike = TDMA where the limit is hard. I don't know why 802.11 doesn't use differnt spreading sequences as well = as different frequency bands to differentiate LANs. One reason might be = to simplify the design. Another might be that allowing multiple = spreading sequences in the same frequency band will increase the noise = level and reduce performance in umpredictable ways. Bert > -----Original Message----- > From: #LI ZHIFEI# [mailto:zhifeili@pmail.ntu.edu.sg] > Sent: Monday, November 24, 2003 12:13 AM > To: Ioannis C. Avramopoulos; manet@ietf.org > Subject: RE: [manet] MAC layer >=20 >=20 > Hi, >=20 > I think your question is: why CDMA is not used in ad hoc=20 > networks? I also try to figure out the reasons. > I have the following reasons:=20 > (1) since ad hoc network is fully distributed, how to make=20 > the code orthogonal, and how to make the sender be aware of=20 > the code it should use before transmitting? > (2) again, due to the distributed nature, how to do the power=20 > control to cope with the inteference which is ensential for=20 > cdma system? >=20 > However, the above difficulties do not mean that we should=20 > not try to apply CDMA into ad hoc networks. In fact, there is=20 > a paper talking about CDMA in ad hoc networks=20 > in mobihoc 2003. The author is also on this list, and maybe=20 > he can give us his understanding. >=20 > Also, it seems that in the literature about packet radio=20 > networks ( ad hoc networks developed for military use during=20 > 1970s), they normally use CDMA for security reason (i.e.,=20 > jamming as you have mentioned). However, now there are very=20 > few papers talking about CDMA in ad hoc networks. Reasearch=20 > is really a little bit strange :). >=20 >=20 > Best regards > Li zhifei >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: manet-admin@ietf.org [mailto:manet-admin@ietf.org]On=20 > Behalf Of Ioannis C. Avramopoulos > Sent: dissabte, 22 / novembre / 2003 12:33 > To: manet@ietf.org > Subject: [manet] MAC layer >=20 > Dear fellows, >=20 > I have a question on the MAC layer used in ad hoc networks. >=20 > In 802.11 nodes share the medium, i.e. they use the same > frequency hopping pattern or chip sequence. Had nodes used > orthogonal hopping patterns, spectrum utilization would > significantly increase and, furthermore, the impact of > malicious nodes with respect to jamming would be severely=20 > mitigated. >=20 > I am interested in the reasons that schemes of the latter > type are not considered in the ad hoc community. I would > appreciate it if you could point me to any papers discussing > such issues. >=20 > Kind regards, > Yannis >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > manet mailing list > manet@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet >=20 > _______________________________________________ > manet mailing list > manet@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet >=20 _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 24 10:04:33 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA10710 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 10:04:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOIG8-0007dC-Rg for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 10:04:18 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAOF4GZF029328 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 10:04:16 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOIG8-0007cx-Mj for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 10:04:16 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA10645 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 10:04:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOIG6-0006U4-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 10:04:14 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOIG5-0006U1-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 10:04:13 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOIFu-0007WC-9l; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 10:04:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOIFe-0007Tn-WE for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 10:03:47 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA10580 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 10:03:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOIFc-0006TJ-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 10:03:44 -0500 Received: from itc100.adtran.com ([66.0.238.100] helo=srv-exchange1.adtran.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOIFc-0006TE-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 10:03:44 -0500 Received: by srv-exchange1.adtran.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 09:03:37 -0600 Message-ID: <39B01E2189D99F4B8C9612462DB3922A0CEBA98F@srv-exchange.adtran.com> From: DANIEL BYRNE To: "'Ehsan Hamadani'" , manet@ietf.org Subject: RE: [manet] question on RREP Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 09:03:44 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C3B29C.27A96100" Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C3B29C.27A96100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" In AODV for instance, the RREP just gets lost because it is unicast back. I believe however that this shouldn't be the case. The RREP should be able to take a different route back to the source of the RREQ if neccessary. For instance, if the RREQ transmitting station has a more powerful transmitter, he could reach further into the web looking for a node that is closer to his destination to deliver his packet. If however, the radio he reaches cannot get back to him without making a hop through another node in the return path because of a weaker transmitter, this should be allowed. Maybe you can work on an elegant solution to this problem in your research. -----Original Message----- From: manet-admin@ietf.org [mailto:manet-admin@ietf.org]On Behalf Of Ehsan Hamadani Sent: Monday, November 24, 2003 8:42 AM To: manet@ietf.org Subject: [manet] question on RREP Sorry , in the third line I made a mistake by using RREP, it should be RREQ. So this is my question : Hi all I am a PhD student and it is just about 2 months that I have started my research on Ad-Hoc networks. My question is that in all reactive routing protocols, we assume that RREP follows the reverse path in which RREQ has arrived, so what will happen if in the return path one of the links are broken?? Does the destination start a routing discovery to destination? I would be thankful if someone can answer me. Regards Ehsan ------_=_NextPart_001_01C3B29C.27A96100 Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
In=20 AODV for instance, the RREP just gets lost because it is unicast = back.  I=20 believe however that this shouldn't be the case.  The RREP should = be able=20 to take a different route back to the source of the RREQ if = neccessary. =20
 
For=20 instance, if the RREQ transmitting station has a more powerful = transmitter, he=20 could reach further into the web looking for a node that is closer to = his=20 destination to deliver his packet.  If however, the radio he = reaches cannot=20 get back to him without making a hop through another node in the return = path because of a weaker transmitter, this should be = allowed. =20 Maybe you can work on an elegant solution to this problem in your=20 research.
 
 
 -----Original = Message-----
From:=20 manet-admin@ietf.org [mailto:manet-admin@ietf.org]On Behalf Of = Ehsan=20 Hamadani
Sent: Monday, November 24, 2003 8:42 = AM
To:=20 manet@ietf.org
Subject: [manet] question on=20 RREP

Sorry = , in the=20 third line I made a mistake by using RREP, it should be RREQ. So this = is my=20 question :

 

Hi=20 all

I am a PhD student and = it is just=20 about 2 months that I have started my research on Ad-Hoc=20 networks.

My question is that in = all=20 reactive routing protocols, we assume that RREP follows the reverse = path in=20 which RREQ has arrived, so what will happen if in the return path one = of the=20 links are broken?? Does the destination start a routing discovery to=20 destination?

 

I would be thankful if = someone can=20 answer me.

 

Regards

 

Ehsan  =

 

------_=_NextPart_001_01C3B29C.27A96100-- _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 24 10:16:37 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA11970 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 10:16:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOIRo-0000D5-Te for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 10:16:23 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAOFGK00000807 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 10:16:20 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOIRo-0000Cw-Mq for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 10:16:20 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA11913 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 10:16:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOIRl-0006dR-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 10:16:17 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOIRl-0006dO-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 10:16:17 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOIRW-00008f-5x; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 10:16:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOIQk-00007Q-O6 for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 10:15:16 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA11790 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 10:14:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOIQi-0006cG-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 10:15:12 -0500 Received: from mail03.gmu.edu ([129.174.0.113]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOIQh-0006bf-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 10:15:12 -0500 Received: from Isovaio002 ([65.213.193.35]) by mserver3.gmu.edu (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 Patch 1 (built Aug 19 2002)) with ESMTPA id <0HOV001F83OFXN@mserver3.gmu.edu> for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 10:14:39 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 10:14:35 -0500 From: Ali Nabi Zadeh Subject: RE: [manet] MAC layer In-reply-to: <3D565922795545468AE3E3DA2881BEA901F85BDF@mail01.student.main.ntu.edu.sg> To: "'#LI ZHIFEI#'" , "'Ioannis C. Avramopoulos'" , manet@ietf.org Reply-to: anabizad@gmu.edu Message-id: <000b01c3b29d$aba431a0$23c1d541@Isovaio002> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-priority: Normal Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hi Li, > (1) since ad hoc network is fully distributed, how to make > the code orthogonal, and how to make the sender be aware of > the code it should use before transmitting? Transmissions from different users cannot be synchronous due to propagation delay and multipath fading. Even in the downlink of the current cellular networks, where a base station can use synchronous CDMA for transmissions to different users, due to multipath fading, the receiver observes several replicas of the whole set with different delays. In effect the final reception is not synchronized. So, I don't think this is a major problem in Ad hoc networks. Sousa and Silvester have a paper on how to assign spreading codes in this environment. E. S. Sousa and J. A. Silvester, "Spreading code protocols for distributed spreadspectrum packet radio networks," IEEE Transactions on Communications, vol. 36, no. 3, pp. 272-281, Mar. 1988. > (2) again, due to the distributed nature, how to do the power > control to cope with the inteference which is ensential for > cdma system? Again there are some old papers on using this structure without power control, however I've not seen the exact performance measurment of this system. So what is the drawback of using a channel inversion power control in a master-slave environment? For example in a bluetooth system, each master node can act as a base station with power control capability. Actually, we have used this method for performance modeling of this structure. A. N. Zadeh, B. Jabbari, R. Pickholtz, and B. Vojcic, "Self-organizing packet radio ad hoc networks with overlay (SOPRANO)," IEEE Communications Magazine, vol. 40, no. 6, pp. 149-157, June 2002. Best regards Ali Zadeh. > > -----Original Message----- > From: manet-admin@ietf.org [mailto:manet-admin@ietf.org]On > Behalf Of Ioannis C. Avramopoulos > Sent: dissabte, 22 / novembre / 2003 12:33 > To: manet@ietf.org > Subject: [manet] MAC layer > > Dear fellows, > > I have a question on the MAC layer used in ad hoc networks. > > In 802.11 nodes share the medium, i.e. they use the same > frequency hopping pattern or chip sequence. Had nodes used > orthogonal hopping patterns, spectrum utilization would > significantly increase and, furthermore, the impact of > malicious nodes with respect to jamming would be severely > mitigated. > > I am interested in the reasons that schemes of the latter > type are not considered in the ad hoc community. I would > appreciate it if you could point me to any papers discussing > such issues. > > Kind regards, > Yannis > > > > _______________________________________________ > manet mailing list > manet@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet > > _______________________________________________ > manet mailing list > manet@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet > _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 24 10:30:39 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA12532 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 10:30:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOIfP-000168-6Y for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 10:30:24 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAOFUN9l004219 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 10:30:23 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOIfO-00015x-Us for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 10:30:22 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA12490 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 10:30:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOIfK-0006nD-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 10:30:18 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOIfK-0006nA-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 10:30:18 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOIf4-0000zL-2B; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 10:30:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOIe7-0000yE-IX for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 10:29:03 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA12427 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 10:28:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOIe5-0006mU-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 10:29:01 -0500 Received: from s2.itd.nrl.navy.mil ([132.250.83.3]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOIe0-0006m2-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 10:28:56 -0500 Received: from smtp.itd.nrl.navy.mil (smtp.itd.nrl.navy.mil [132.250.86.3]) by s2.itd.nrl.navy.mil (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.8) with SMTP id hAOFSKMq003687; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 10:28:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from SEXTANT.itd.nrl.navy.mil ([132.250.92.22]) by smtp.itd.nrl.navy.mil (SAVSMTP 3.1.2.35) with SMTP id M2003112410281925216 ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 10:28:19 -0500 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.2.20031124101922.029e6598@pop.itd.nrl.navy.mil> X-Sender: macker@pop.itd.nrl.navy.mil (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 10:28:29 -0500 To: "Ioannis C. Avramopoulos" , manet@ietf.org From: Joe Macker Subject: Re: [manet] MAC layer In-Reply-To: <1fb247f1fb8180.1fb81801fb247f@Princeton.EDU> References: <1fb247f1fb8180.1fb81801fb247f@Princeton.EDU> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , At 11:33 PM 11/21/2003, Ioannis C. Avramopoulos wrote: >Dear fellows, > >I have a question on the MAC layer used in ad hoc networks. > >In 802.11 nodes share the medium, i.e. they use the same >frequency hopping pattern or chip sequence. Had nodes used >orthogonal hopping patterns, spectrum utilization would >significantly increase and, furthermore, the impact of >malicious nodes with respect to jamming would be severely >mitigated. > >I am interested in the reasons that schemes of the latter >type are not considered in the ad hoc community. I would >appreciate it if you could point me to any papers discussing >such issues. 802.11 is "widely available and inexpensive" and has an ad hoc mode which makes broadcast neighbor association simple. There are NO fundamental reasons why it has to be the MAC layer. There are many possibilities here. You've point out one. There is plenty of work here and you can go back to the 1980s.. >Kind regards, >Yannis > > > >_______________________________________________ >manet mailing list >manet@ietf.org >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 24 10:32:32 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA12759 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 10:32:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOIhE-0001an-BN for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 10:32:18 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAOFWGlK006112 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 10:32:16 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOIhD-0001aJ-Qb for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 10:32:15 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA12650 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 10:31:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOIhB-0006ra-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 10:32:13 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOIhB-0006rW-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 10:32:13 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOIh1-0001NQ-PK; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 10:32:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOIgM-0001KJ-84 for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 10:31:22 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA12576 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 10:31:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOIgJ-0006oS-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 10:31:19 -0500 Received: from [202.138.119.193] (helo=da-iict.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOIgI-0006nf-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 10:31:19 -0500 Received: from mail.da-iict.org (smtp.da-iict.org [10.100.56.27]) by da-iict.org (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id hAOFUji01553 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 21:00:45 +0530 Received: (from net@localhost) by mail.da-iict.org (8.11.2/8.11.2) id hAODF3h16301; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 18:45:03 +0530 Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 18:45:03 +0530 Message-Id: <200311241315.hAODF3h16301@mail.da-iict.org> X-Authentication-Warning: mail.da-iict.org: net set sender to ravichander_vipperla@da-iict.org using -f From: "Vipperla Ravi Chander N Rao" To: manet@ietf.org Reply-To: ravichander_vipperla@da-iict.org Subject: Re:[manet] Bandwidth vs Transmission range X-Mailer: NeoMail 1.26 X-IPAddress: 10.100.57.37 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Hi, I guess 'intersymbol interference' has a major role to play in this issue. When the bit rate is increased the spacing between the symbols transmitted decreases leading to higher intersymbol interference. Actually what happens is that as the symbols propogate through a medium, due to the filtering nature of the medium the symbols spread in time interfering with the adjacent symbols. This effect becomes more apparent as the distance increases. Hence as the bit rate increases, the maximum distance that the receiver should be placed at (for faithful reproduction of ransmitted symbols) decreases regards, Ravi -----Original Message----- From: manet-admin@ietf.org [mailto:manet-admin@ietf.org]On Behalf Of Prasanna.Padmanabhan-1 Sent: dilluns, 24 / novembre / 2003 05:15 To: manet@ietf.org Subject: [manet] Bandwidth vs Transmission Range Hello Everyone, In one of the WLAN cards (Wireless LAN Mini PCI Type 3A card), I see that for higher bandwidth cards they offer, the transmission range decreases. For example, a 1 Mbps WLAN card has a tranmission range of 550m, a 2 Mbps WLAN card has a tranmission range of 400m, a 11 Mbps WLAN card has a tranmission range of 160m. Does that mean that bandwidth and transmission range are inversely proportional. I understand transmission range is related to Power. But how is it related to Bandwidth? Please let me know. Thanks, Prasanna _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 24 10:48:10 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA13579 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 10:48:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOIwN-0003kA-A2 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 10:47:56 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAOFltGH014389 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 10:47:55 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOIwN-0003k0-6B for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 10:47:55 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA13495 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 10:47:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOIwK-0007AK-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 10:47:52 -0500 Received: from manatick.foretec.com ([4.17.168.5] helo=manatick) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOIwJ-0007A6-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 10:47:51 -0500 Received: from [132.151.6.22] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by manatick with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1AOItu-0006SA-Pg for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 10:45:22 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOItb-0003PO-A1; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 10:45:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOItX-0003Os-8l for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 10:44:59 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA13324 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 10:44:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOItU-00074n-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 10:44:56 -0500 Received: from nestor.nmsu.edu ([128.123.34.146] helo=mail.nmsu.edu) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOItS-00074e-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 10:44:55 -0500 Received: from PCMullen2 (pc-mullen-2.NMSU.Edu [128.123.245.103]) by mail.nmsu.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67E222004; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 08:44:52 -0700 (MST) From: "John Mullen" To: "'Richard Ogier'" Cc: "'MANET'" Subject: RE: [manet] Question regarding Mobility Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 08:44:52 -0700 Message-ID: <000001c3b2a1$e6f74770$67f57b80@IEngr.ad.nmsu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <3FBEC992.7010006@earthlink.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Richard, Well, we can argue mobility models, but in the end, it is how well they reflect node behavior in a real situation that matters. The "choose a location and move to it" model is attractive because that is how people move around. The "bounce off the boundary" model is not so attractive because people don't usually move this way. People will choose different models because they are thinking of different contexts. However, the mobility model may not be that important. Because of shadowing and fading, received signals can easily vary by a factor of 100 to 1 from their expected values and will tend to do so as a function of the rate at which the environment is changing. (Not just the one node's speed, by that of all other objects and nodes in the vicinity.) As a result, it may be the node's speed, together with data rate, packet length, transmission frequency, etc. that are the greater factors and the differences among many of the various mobility models may just be a moot point. John Mullen -----Original Message----- From: Richard Ogier [mailto:ogier@earthlink.net] Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 7:28 PM To: John Mullen Cc: 'Richard Ogier'; 'MANET' Subject: Re: [manet] Question regarding Mobility John, Thanks for the pointer. Frankly, instead of studying bad mobility models (like random waypoint), I prefer to use a good mobility model that ensures node positions are uniformly distributed. One model that achieves a uniform distribution (assuming zero pause time) is a random walk model, where each node moves in a random direction for T seconds, then chooses a new random direction. If the node hits a boundary, it bounces off as in billiards (angle of reflection equals angle of incidence). There is another model called the "random direction" model, in which the node chooses a new random direction only when it hits the boundary. However, I don't think this model achieves a uniform distribution (assuming zero pause time). The following paper discusses these model and several others (but does not talk about probability distributions): T. Camp, J. Boleng, and V. Davies. A survey of mobility models for ad hoc network research. Wireless Communications & Mobile Computing (WCMC): Special issue on Mobile Ad Hoc Networking: Research, Trends and Applications, 2(5):483--502, 2002. Richard John Mullen wrote: >Hi Richard, > >You are correct in the matter of non-independent speed, however, I am >unaware of any result that takes this into consideration. In "The >spatial node distribution of the random waypoint mobility model." (1st >German Workshop on Mobile Ad-Hoc Networks (WMAN'02), Ulm, Germany, >2002.), Christian Bettstetter discusses this problem at length and >develops a couple of approximate distributions. He also performed some >simulations which seem to indicate the approximations are pretty close. >Bettstetter has published more on this topic, so you may want to check >out his web page: > >http://www.lkn.ei.tum.de/‾chris/#Publications > >John Mullen > >-----Original Message----- >From: manet-admin@ietf.org [mailto:manet-admin@ietf.org] On Behalf Of >Richard Ogier >Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 9:38 AM >To: Philippe Jacquet >Cc: MANET >Subject: Re: [manet] Question regarding Mobility > > >Philippe Jacquet wrote: > >>Yes, Peter, the distribution changes if you introduce mobility and it >>depends on the mobility model. Take the random way point model where >>each node has a distinct a random destination point selected uniformly >>in a square, and each node moves to this destination at constant speed. >> > >>In this case, the stationary density at point (x,y) (assuming a 1x1 >>square) is *( x* log x+(1-x)*log(1-x))*(y*log y +(1-y)*log(1-y)) which >>differs from uniform density (which is equal to 1 at any point in the >>1x1 square). >> >>Philippe >> >Philippe, > >Your result implies that you can consider the x and y directions >independently. I don't think this is the case, because the speed in the >x direction depends on the (x,y) direction of movement. I did some >calculations, and I think your result assumes that the time to go from >one random point to the next random point is constant (thus, if the >distance between the 2 points is greater, the speed must be greater). > >Just for fun I tried to derive the steady state distribution in one >dimension for a unit interval [0,1] and got the following result >(assuming constant speed and zero pause time): > > C * x*(1-x) (C is a normalization constant) > >The x*(1-x) term is simply the probability that the point x lies >between two random numbers uniformly distributed in [0,1]. I ran a >simulation on the unit interval [0,1] which confirms this result. In >particular, the probability that the node is near x = 0.25 is 0.75 >times the probability that the node is near x = 0.50. > >Unfortunately, this result cannot be extended to 2 dimensions by taking >the product of this term for the x and y directions, because the x and >y components of the node speed are not independent. > >Richard > >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: Peter Pham >>To: MANET >>Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 2:03 AM >>Subject: [manet] Question regarding Mobility >> >> >>>Hi all >>>I am interested in modelling ad hoc networks. In the stationary >>>scenario (nodes do not move), I can assume that the mobile nodes are >>>distributed randomly according to Poisson distribution (many assumed >>>so). However, is this assumption still valid under the mobility ? Can >>>anyone give me some advice ? >>> >>>Peter Pham >>> >>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>manet mailing list >>>manet@ietf.org >>>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet >>> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>manet mailing list >>manet@ietf.org >>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet >> > > > >_______________________________________________ >manet mailing list >manet@ietf.org >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet > > _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 24 10:48:14 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA13594 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 10:48:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOIwS-0003l1-1F for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 10:48:00 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAOFm0k6014437 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 10:48:00 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOIwR-0003km-SB for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 10:47:59 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA13517 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 10:47:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOIwP-0007At-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 10:47:57 -0500 Received: from manatick.foretec.com ([4.17.168.5] helo=manatick) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOIwO-0007A6-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 10:47:56 -0500 Received: from [132.151.6.22] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by manatick with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1AOInb-0006GS-5A for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 10:38:51 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOIhK-0001eu-6Z; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 10:32:22 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOIgq-0001LT-Rt for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 10:31:52 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA12614 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 10:31:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOIgo-0006qh-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 10:31:50 -0500 Received: from nestor.nmsu.edu ([128.123.34.146] helo=mail.nmsu.edu) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOIgn-0006qe-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 10:31:49 -0500 Received: from PCMullen2 (pc-mullen-2.NMSU.Edu [128.123.245.103]) by mail.nmsu.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA49D2014 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 08:31:47 -0700 (MST) From: "John Mullen" To: Subject: RE: [manet] Bandwidth vs Transmission Range Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 08:31:48 -0700 Message-ID: <000001c3b2a0$1335a4a0$67f57b80@IEngr.ad.nmsu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <3D565922795545468AE3E3DA2881BEA901F85BDD@mail01.student.main.ntu.edu.sg> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Li, Exactly! Shannon's limit restricts the bandwidth of a reliable channel to B log_2 (1 + S/N), where B is the channel bandwidth and S/N is the ratio of signal to noise. It is a theoretical limit which is approached, but not surpassed, by some existing coding schemes. It also ignores interference and some other factors, but is useful in that it is an upper limit. Plotting the S/N due to expected power at a given range will clearly demonstrate that data rate and bandwidth are linked. Prasanna, it is also good to remember that such estimates may assume a RF environment that is more stable than the one you are working in, so you may not get the promised range. Also, because of shadowing and fading, you will find that dropouts and interference may be a problem at even moderate ranges. John Mullen -----Original Message----- From: manet-admin@ietf.org [mailto:manet-admin@ietf.org] On Behalf Of #LI ZHIFEI# Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2003 9:49 PM To: Prasanna.Padmanabhan-1; manet@ietf.org Subject: RE: [manet] Bandwidth vs Transmission Range hi, I think the reason is: for higher transmission rate you need a higher SNR to receive the packet correctly. The SNR in turn depends on the distance between the communicating pair if all the other stuff are assumed as the same. Therefore, when a higher transmission rate is used, the effective transmission range should decrease. Best regards li zhifei -----Original Message----- From: manet-admin@ietf.org [mailto:manet-admin@ietf.org]On Behalf Of Prasanna.Padmanabhan-1 Sent: dilluns, 24 / novembre / 2003 05:15 To: manet@ietf.org Subject: [manet] Bandwidth vs Transmission Range Hello Everyone, In one of the WLAN cards (Wireless LAN Mini PCI Type 3A card), I see that for higher bandwidth cards they offer, the transmission range decreases. For example, a 1 Mbps WLAN card has a tranmission range of 550m, a 2 Mbps WLAN card has a tranmission range of 400m, a 11 Mbps WLAN card has a tranmission range of 160m. Does that mean that bandwidth and transmission range are inversely proportional. I understand transmission range is related to Power. But how is it related to Bandwidth? Please let me know. Thanks, Prasanna _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 24 12:52:35 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA18882 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 12:52:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOKsm-0004GI-Og for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 12:52:21 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAOHqK3V016376 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 12:52:20 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOKsm-0004G3-KQ for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 12:52:20 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA18869 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 12:52:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOKsk-0001Mk-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 12:52:18 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOKsk-0001Mh-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 12:52:18 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOKsU-0004Bd-6V; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 12:52:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOKsO-0004BK-10 for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 12:51:56 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA18858 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 12:51:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOKsM-0001MO-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 12:51:54 -0500 Received: from web40105.mail.yahoo.com ([66.218.78.39]) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOKsL-0001LR-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 12:51:54 -0500 Message-ID: <20031124175121.78272.qmail@web40105.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [66.223.56.187] by web40105.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 09:51:21 PST Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 09:51:21 -0800 (PST) From: pradeep To: manet@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [manet] unsubscribe me Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , please unsubscribe me __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 24 13:04:35 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA19262 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 13:04:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOL4O-0004uk-Ma for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 13:04:21 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAOI4Kpr018879 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 13:04:20 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOL4M-0004uK-UC for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 13:04:20 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA19232 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 13:04:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOL4J-0001X7-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 13:04:15 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOL4J-0001X4-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 13:04:15 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOL45-0004pC-IZ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 13:04:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOL3B-0004oS-P1 for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 13:03:06 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA19200 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 13:02:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOL32-0001Vp-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 13:02:56 -0500 Received: from ponyexpress.ee.columbia.edu ([128.59.64.61] ident=[NB2bhSjayOVwgjDh1ZIMv0CttP+juGaU]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOL31-0001Vm-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 13:02:56 -0500 Received: from farseer (dhcp-65-163.ee.columbia.edu [128.59.65.163]) (authenticated bits=0) by ponyexpress.ee.columbia.edu (8.12.8/8.12.1) with ESMTP id hAOI0iaT005963; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 13:00:44 -0500 From: "SeoungBum Lee" To: Cc: "Lee SeoungBum" Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 13:02:39 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [manet] HMP (hotspot mitigation protocol) ID Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello: We have submitted an ID (draft-lee-hmp-00.txt ) that describes HMP (hotspot mitigation protocol) sometime ago. HMP addresses the issue of congestion in MANET and interworks with some of the MANET routing protocols. The ID is based on our publication; Seoung-Bum Lee, Jiyoung Cho and Andrew T. Campbell, "A Hotspot Mitigation Protocol for Ad hoc Networks", Ad hoc Networks Journal, Vol. 1, No. 1, 2003. You can also download the internet draft from http://www.comet.columbia.edu/hmp/draft-ietf-lee-hmp-00.txt Any comments are appreciated. Best Regards, Seoung-Bum Lee _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 24 13:37:30 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA20432 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 13:37:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOLaB-0006vD-Nd for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 13:37:14 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAOIbBBo026601 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 13:37:11 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOLaB-0006uq-Cn for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 13:37:11 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA20413 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 13:36:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOLa9-0001xQ-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 13:37:09 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOLa8-0001xN-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 13:37:08 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOLa3-0006oX-ER; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 13:37:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOLZn-0006lZ-Su for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 13:36:48 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA20403 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 13:36:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOLZl-0001x9-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 13:36:45 -0500 Received: from nestor.nmsu.edu ([128.123.34.146] helo=mail.nmsu.edu) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOLZk-0001x5-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 13:36:44 -0500 Received: from PCMullen2 (pc-mullen-2.NMSU.Edu [128.123.245.103]) by mail.nmsu.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABECD202D; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 11:36:43 -0700 (MST) From: "John Mullen" To: "'Ehsan Hamadani'" Cc: Subject: RE: [manet] question on RREP Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 11:36:43 -0700 Message-ID: <000001c3b2b9$e8929400$67f57b80@IEngr.ad.nmsu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C3B27F.3C33BC00" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <000201c3b299$254a69c0$17a3288a@CITY> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C3B27F.3C33BC00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Ehsan, In wireless communications, link reliability is an issue. Requiring the RREP to follow the reverse path is a means of protecting against an unreliable link. For example, if the link reliability is 0.2, that means that, on the average, once every five attempts, one will get through. One of those times could be a RREQ. We wouldn't want to use such a link to transmit a message. However, if the path must be traversed twice, once for the RREQ and once for the RREP, the chances of both transmissions being received is only 0.04. Also, when a RREQ is sent out, there may be multiple replies via several routes. The requesting node will wait for a time interval for later replies to arrive, then choose the best one. If a RREP fails to arrive because of an unreliable link, chances are that some other RREP will be chosen from those that did arrive. If no other RREP does arrive, then, after a timeout, the RREQ will be sent out again, possibly with some parameters changed. Notice that I said "on the average" above. There is a chance that even a reliable link will fail in one direction or the other. There is also a chance that an unreliable path will be chosen. The idea of the protocol is to improve the odds, but nothing is certain. John Mullen -----Original Message----- From: manet-admin@ietf.org [mailto:manet-admin@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ehsan Hamadani Sent: Monday, November 24, 2003 7:42 AM To: manet@ietf.org Subject: [manet] question on RREP Sorry , in the third line I made a mistake by using RREP, it should be RREQ. So this is my question : Hi all I am a PhD student and it is just about 2 months that I have started my research on Ad-Hoc networks. My question is that in all reactive routing protocols, we assume that RREP follows the reverse path in which RREQ has arrived, so what will happen if in the return path one of the links are broken?? Does the destination start a routing discovery to destination? I would be thankful if someone can answer me. Regards Ehsan ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C3B27F.3C33BC00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message
Hi=20 Ehsan,
 
In=20 wireless communications, link reliability is an issue.  Requiring = the RREP=20 to follow the reverse path is a means of protecting against an = unreliable=20 link.  For example, if the link reliability is 0.2, that means = that, on the=20 average, once every five attempts, one will get through.  One of = those=20 times could be a RREQ.  We wouldn't want to use such a link to = transmit a=20 message.  However, if the path must be traversed twice, once for = the RREQ=20 and once for the RREP, the chances of both transmissions being received = is only=20 0.04. 
 
Also,=20 when a RREQ is sent out, there may be multiple replies via several = routes. =20 The requesting node will wait for a time interval for later replies to = arrive,=20 then choose the best one.  If a RREP fails to arrive because of an=20 unreliable link, chances are that some other RREP will be chosen = from those=20 that did arrive.  If no other RREP does arrive, then, after a = timeout, the=20 RREQ will be sent out again, possibly with some parameters=20 changed.
 
Notice=20 that I said "on the average" above.  There is a chance that even a = reliable=20 link will fail in one direction or the other.  There is also a = chance that=20 an unreliable path will be chosen.  The idea of the protocol is to = improve=20 the odds, but nothing is certain.
 
John=20 Mullen
-----Original Message-----
From:=20 manet-admin@ietf.org [mailto:manet-admin@ietf.org] On Behalf Of = Ehsan=20 Hamadani
Sent: Monday, November 24, 2003 7:42 = AM
To:=20 manet@ietf.org
Subject: [manet] question on=20 RREP

Sorry = , in the=20 third line I made a mistake by using RREP, it should be RREQ. So this = is my=20 question :

 

Hi=20 all

I am a PhD student and = it is just=20 about 2 months that I have started my research on Ad-Hoc=20 networks.

My question is that in = all=20 reactive routing protocols, we assume that RREP follows the reverse = path in=20 which RREQ has arrived, so what will happen if in the return path one = of the=20 links are broken?? Does the destination start a routing discovery to=20 destination?

 

I would be thankful if = someone can=20 answer me.

 

Regards

 

Ehsan  =

 

------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C3B27F.3C33BC00-- _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 24 15:12:34 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA25762 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 15:12:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AON4D-0005GO-3U for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 15:12:18 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAOKCHC3020228 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 15:12:17 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AON4C-0005GB-WD for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 15:12:17 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA25711 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 15:12:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AON4B-0003aw-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 15:12:15 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AON4B-0003at-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 15:12:15 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AON3y-0005Ek-6S; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 15:12:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AON3q-0005E4-FJ for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 15:11:54 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA25667 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 15:11:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AON3n-0003af-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 15:11:51 -0500 Received: from zaz.kom.auc.dk ([130.225.51.10]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AON3m-0003aX-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 15:11:50 -0500 Received: from room-1-9.guesthouse.auc.dk ([192.168.78.108] helo=ernie) by zaz.kom.auc.dk with smtp (Exim 2.05 #3) id 1AON3h-0004hd-00; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 21:11:45 +0100 Message-ID: <004701c3b2c7$f790bdc0$6c4ea8c0@guesthouse.auc.dk> From: "Petar Popovski" To: "Ioannis C. Avramopoulos" , References: <1fb247f1fb8180.1fb81801fb247f@Princeton.EDU> Subject: Re: [manet] MAC layer Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 21:17:19 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, In addition to the previous comments, I think that the usage of a single spreading code can be also related to the fact that WLAN operates in an unlicensed spectrum. The single random access channel gives some guarantees about the interference level that a WLAN or group of collocated WLANs can make to the other collocated entities that operate in the same spectrum. This is due to the usage of CSMA and the limited number of successful transmission that can occur simultaneously at the certain spatial point (clearly, more than one e.g. due to reuse possibility for an exposed terminal). If there are more spreading codes, the WLANs will have increased throughput, but at the expense of increased interference level for the other proximate license-free devices. Regards, Petar ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ioannis C. Avramopoulos" To: Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2003 5:33 AM Subject: [manet] MAC layer > > Dear fellows, > > I have a question on the MAC layer used in ad hoc networks. > > In 802.11 nodes share the medium, i.e. they use the same > frequency hopping pattern or chip sequence. Had nodes used > orthogonal hopping patterns, spectrum utilization would > significantly increase and, furthermore, the impact of > malicious nodes with respect to jamming would be severely > mitigated. > > I am interested in the reasons that schemes of the latter > type are not considered in the ad hoc community. I would > appreciate it if you could point me to any papers discussing > such issues. > > Kind regards, > Yannis > > > > _______________________________________________ > manet mailing list > manet@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 24 15:17:50 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA26622 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 15:17:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AON9H-0005qQ-MU for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 15:17:33 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAOKHVF0022465 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 15:17:31 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AON9H-0005qG-4Z for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 15:17:31 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA26576 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 15:17:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AON9F-0003mL-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 15:17:29 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AON9F-0003mI-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 15:17:29 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AON8p-0005df-QF; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 15:17:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AON8e-0005cR-VL for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 15:16:53 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA26515 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 15:16:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AON8d-0003m2-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 15:16:51 -0500 Received: from wexford-2.cmcl.cs.cmu.edu ([128.2.198.115]) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AON8c-0003lz-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 15:16:50 -0500 Received: from wexford-2.cmcl.cs.cmu.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by wexford-2.cmcl.cs.cmu.edu id aa27768; 24 Nov 2003 15:16 EST From: Dave Maltz To: John Mullen cc: "'Ehsan Hamadani'" , manet@ietf.org, dmaltz@cs.cmu.edu Subject: Re: [manet] question on RREP References: <000001c3b2b9$e8929400$67f57b80@IEngr.ad.nmsu.edu> Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 15:16:20 -0500 Message-Id: Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Generalizing slightly on John's comments, I think there is often value in testing the candidate routes discovered by a reactive or on-demand protocol. Over the years, we have looked at many variations on this theme in the design of DSR. For example, when S does a route request for D, DSR is capable of independently discovering a route from D->S, rather than simply using the reverse route on the Route Request packet. Basically, the discovered S->D route is turned into a Route Reply that is piggybacked on a RouteRequest lauched from D targeting S. (The results in our '96 paper use this mechanism. see below for more details) When we believed that 802.11b, with its */DATA/ACK exchanges, was likely to become the dominant MAC for ad hoc network testbeds, we changed the default behavior in DSR to be sending Route Replies along the reverse route because it was critical to verify the reverse route worked before reporting it as a candidate route. (802.11b with its per-hop ACK cannot successfully deliver data over a unidirectional link). I always intended to run an experiment where nodes able to reply from their cache would unicast the Route Request along the cached route, rather than simply return a Route Reply themselves. This would test that the cached route was still valid before returning it to the requesting node. I'm pretty sure we never published the results, and I don't recall if we eventually ran the experiment or not. Cheers, -dam Prior to '98, it was the case that our ns-2 implementation of DSR could be changed to work with asymetric routes simply by changing the value of the flag below, which caused DSR to use Route Discovery to determine how to return Route Replies to an originating node. bool dsragent_require_bi_routes = true; // do we need to have bidirectional source routes? As comments in the source file show, after '98 I stopped supporting that option. You could reimplement it easily if you were interested in experimenting with it. David B. Johnson and David A. Maltz. Protocols for Adaptive Wireless and Mobile Networking. IEEE Personal Communications, 3(1):34-42, February 1996. http://www.monarch.cs.rice.edu/monarch-papers/pcs-monarch.ps In message <000001c3b2b9$e8929400$67f57b80@IEngr.ad.nmsu.edu>, "John Mullen" wr ites: >Hi Ehsan, > >In wireless communications, link reliability is an issue. Requiring the >RREP to follow the reverse path is a means of protecting against an >unreliable link. For example, if the link reliability is 0.2, that >means that, on the average, once every five attempts, one will get >through. One of those times could be a RREQ. We wouldn't want to use >such a link to transmit a message. However, if the path must be >traversed twice, once for the RREQ and once for the RREP, the chances of >both transmissions being received is only 0.04. > >Also, when a RREQ is sent out, there may be multiple replies via several >routes. The requesting node will wait for a time interval for later >replies to arrive, then choose the best one. If a RREP fails to arrive >because of an unreliable link, chances are that some other RREP will be >chosen from those that did arrive. If no other RREP does arrive, then, >after a timeout, the RREQ will be sent out again, possibly with some >parameters changed. > >Notice that I said "on the average" above. There is a chance that even >a reliable link will fail in one direction or the other. There is also >a chance that an unreliable path will be chosen. The idea of the >protocol is to improve the odds, but nothing is certain. > >John Mullen >-----Original Message----- >From: manet-admin@ietf.org [mailto:manet-admin@ietf.org] On Behalf Of >Ehsan Hamadani >Sent: Monday, November 24, 2003 7:42 AM >To: manet@ietf.org >Subject: [manet] question on RREP > > >Sorry , in the third line I made a mistake by using RREP, it should be >RREQ. So this is my question : > >Hi all >I am a PhD student and it is just about 2 months that I have started my >research on Ad-Hoc networks. >My question is that in all reactive routing protocols, we assume that >RREP follows the reverse path in which RREQ has arrived, so what will >happen if in the return path one of the links are broken?? Does the >destination start a routing discovery to destination? > >I would be thankful if someone can answer me. > >Regards > >Ehsan > > >------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C3B27F.3C33BC00 >Content-Type: text/html; > charset="us-ascii" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > >"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w =3D=20 >"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word"> >charset=3Dus-ascii"> >Message > > > >href=3D"cid:filelist.xml@01C3B299.24A9E400" rel=3DFile-List> > > >link=3Dblue> >
size=3D2>Hi=20 >Ehsan,
>
>size=3D2> 
>
size=3D2>In=20 >wireless communications, link reliability is an issue.  Requiring = >the RREP=20 >to follow the reverse path is a means of protecting against an = >unreliable=20 >link.  For example, if the link reliability is 0.2, that means = >that, on the=20 >average, once every five attempts, one will get through.  One of = >those=20 >times could be a RREQ.  We wouldn't want to use such a link to = >transmit a=20 >message.  However, if the path must be traversed twice, once for = >the RREQ=20 >and once for the RREP, the chances of both transmissions being received = >is only=20 >0.04. 
>
>size=3D2> 
>
size=3D2>Also,=20 >when a RREQ is sent out, there may be multiple replies via several = >routes. =20 >The requesting node will wait for a time interval for later replies to = >arrive,=20 >then choose the best one.  If a RREP fails to arrive because of an=20 >unreliable link, chances are that some other RREP will be chosen = >from those=20 >that did arrive.  If no other RREP does arrive, then, after a = >timeout, the=20 >RREQ will be sent out again, possibly with some parameters=20 >changed.
>
>size=3D2> 
>
size=3D2>Notice=20 >that I said "on the average" above.  There is a chance that even a = >reliable=20 >link will fail in one direction or the other.  There is also a = >chance that=20 >an unreliable path will be chosen.  The idea of the protocol is to = >improve=20 >the odds, but nothing is certain.
>
>size=3D2> 
>
size=3D2>John=20 >Mullen
>
>
>
align=3Dleft> face=3DTahoma size=3D2>-----Original Message-----
From:=20 > manet-admin@ietf.org [mailto:manet-admin@ietf.org] On Behalf Of = >Ehsan=20 > Hamadani
Sent: Monday, November 24, 2003 7:42 = >AM
To:=20 > manet@ietf.org
Subject: [manet] question on=20 >RREP

>
>

size=3D2> style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Sorry = >, face=3DArial size=3D2>Arial"> in the=20 > third line I made a mistake by using RREP, it should be RREQ. So this = >is my=20 > question :

>

style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: = >Arial"> 

>

style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Hi=20 >all

>

style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I am a PhD student and = >it is just=20 > about 2 months that I have started my research on Ad-Hoc=20 > networks.

>

style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">My question is that in = >all=20 > reactive routing protocols, we assume that RREP follows the reverse = >path in=20 > which RREQ has arrived, so what will happen if in the return path one = >of the=20 > links are broken?? Does the destination start a routing discovery to=20 > destination?

>

style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: = >Arial"> 

>

style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I would be thankful if = >someone can=20 > answer me.

>

style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: = >Arial"> 

>

style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: = >Arial">Regards

>

style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: = >Arial"> 

>

style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Ehsan style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">  = >

>

style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: = >Arial"> 

L> > >------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C3B27F.3C33BC00-- > > >_______________________________________________ >manet mailing list >manet@ietf.org >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 24 15:48:34 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA28851 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 15:48:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AONd0-0000Bk-AP for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 15:48:18 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAOKmEIR000717 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 15:48:14 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AONd0-0000BU-6p for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 15:48:14 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA28812 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 15:47:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AONcy-0004NY-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 15:48:12 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AONcy-0004NV-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 15:48:12 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AONco-00005G-3a; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 15:48:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AONcg-00004v-8O for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 15:47:54 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA28783 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 15:47:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AONce-0004Mu-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 15:47:52 -0500 Received: from nestor.nmsu.edu ([128.123.34.146] helo=mail.nmsu.edu) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AONcd-0004Mr-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 15:47:51 -0500 Received: from PCMullen2 (pc-mullen-2.NMSU.Edu [128.123.245.103]) by mail.nmsu.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 377A22020; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 13:47:45 -0700 (MST) From: "John Mullen" To: "'Joe Macker'" , Subject: RE: [manet] MAC layer Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 13:47:45 -0700 Message-ID: <000301c3b2cc$366706e0$67f57b80@IEngr.ad.nmsu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.2.20031124101922.029e6598@pop.itd.nrl.navy.mil> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Joe, I guess it is good to bear in mind that this is an evolving situation. My first wireless phone did OK out in the country, but when I moved to the "big city" I found I needed a phone with more channels to avoid interference with neighbors. I think as MANETs and other wireless solutions become more common, it will become more necessary to include more sophisticated methods and the simpler, less expensive, alternatives will be phased out. In addition, as new technology is developed, the more sophisticated options will become less and less expensive. Eventually, manufacturers will not want to support both the older and newer technology and the old stuff will be phased out. That is, we'll be able to tell our grand kids about the "good old days" when there were hot spots, antennas were omni and the leading MAC protocol was 802.11. John Mullen Who remembers crystal radios, 33, 45 and 78 rpm records, when Hollerith cards were an innovation, and when everybody had to set their watch every day. -----Original Message----- From: manet-admin@ietf.org [mailto:manet-admin@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Joe Macker Sent: Monday, November 24, 2003 8:28 AM To: Ioannis C. Avramopoulos; manet@ietf.org Subject: Re: [manet] MAC layer At 11:33 PM 11/21/2003, Ioannis C. Avramopoulos wrote: >Dear fellows, > >I have a question on the MAC layer used in ad hoc networks. > >In 802.11 nodes share the medium, i.e. they use the same frequency >hopping pattern or chip sequence. Had nodes used orthogonal hopping >patterns, spectrum utilization would significantly increase and, >furthermore, the impact of malicious nodes with respect to jamming >would be severely mitigated. > >I am interested in the reasons that schemes of the latter >type are not considered in the ad hoc community. I would appreciate it >if you could point me to any papers discussing such issues. 802.11 is "widely available and inexpensive" and has an ad hoc mode which makes broadcast neighbor association simple. There are NO fundamental reasons why it has to be the MAC layer. There are many possibilities here. You've point out one. There is plenty of work here and you can go back to the 1980s.. >Kind regards, >Yannis > > > >_______________________________________________ >manet mailing list >manet@ietf.org >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 24 16:32:33 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA01880 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 16:32:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOOJd-0002fJ-8b for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 16:32:17 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAOLWHPn010239 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 16:32:17 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOOJd-0002f4-3z for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 16:32:17 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA01823 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 16:32:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOOJb-0005JX-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 16:32:15 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOOJa-0005JT-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 16:32:14 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOOJN-0002do-I7; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 16:32:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOOJ1-0002dJ-6n for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 16:31:39 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA01761 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 16:31:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOOIz-0005Gw-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 16:31:37 -0500 Received: from s2.itd.nrl.navy.mil ([132.250.83.3]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOOIy-0005Ea-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 16:31:36 -0500 Received: from smtp.itd.nrl.navy.mil (smtp.itd.nrl.navy.mil [132.250.86.3]) by s2.itd.nrl.navy.mil (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.8) with SMTP id hAOLUSMt024100; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 16:30:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from SEXTANT.itd.nrl.navy.mil ([132.250.92.22]) by smtp.itd.nrl.navy.mil (SAVSMTP 3.1.2.35) with SMTP id M2003112416303129509 ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 16:30:31 -0500 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.2.20031124160430.0218c910@pop.itd.nrl.navy.mil> X-Sender: macker@pop.itd.nrl.navy.mil (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 16:30:41 -0500 To: "John Mullen" , From: Joe Macker Subject: RE: [manet] MAC layer In-Reply-To: <000301c3b2cc$366706e0$67f57b80@IEngr.ad.nmsu.edu> References: <6.0.0.22.2.20031124101922.029e6598@pop.itd.nrl.navy.mil> <000301c3b2cc$366706e0$67f57b80@IEngr.ad.nmsu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , At 03:47 PM 11/24/2003, John Mullen wrote: >Hi Joe, > >I guess it is good to bear in mind that this is an evolving situation. >My first wireless phone did OK out in the country, but when I moved to >the "big city" I found I needed a phone with more channels to avoid >interference with neighbors. I think as MANETs and other wireless >solutions become more common, it will become more necessary to include >more sophisticated methods and the simpler, less expensive, alternatives >will be phased out. In addition, as new technology is developed, the >more sophisticated options will become less and less expensive. >Eventually, manufacturers will not want to support both the older and >newer technology and the old stuff will be phased out. Absolutely, did you think I wasn't agreeing ? I am. (Even in the short history since IETFish MANET). 802.11 was relatively expensive and just becoming a standard while many of use were developing routing solutions and looking for a cheap off-the-shelf digital radio. We had heterogeneous wireless in mind. (there was early diffused IR work even)..and we still do keep this idea alive. Heterogeneity is what IP is good at...and its partly why we started this WG in this forum. This is not a research group, but better MACs are certain to evolve (the 802 series will move on). Some MAC/PHY combinations when they become widespread realities will likely require some redesign of the routing layer interface functions (e.g., different interface type classes). I worked on a variety of MAC types, including CDMA, in the 80s., and I expect to run UWB in my house as a grandad someday... ...let's trade 78s I have some Caruso but its going to cost you ;-> ------------------------- _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 24 16:56:52 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA04484 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 16:56:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOOhA-00052U-AQ for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 16:56:37 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAOLua0Y019371 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 16:56:36 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOOhA-00052L-53 for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 16:56:36 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA04392 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 16:56:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOOh7-0006FO-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 16:56:33 -0500 Received: from manatick.foretec.com ([4.17.168.5] helo=manatick) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOOh7-0006Ci-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 16:56:33 -0500 Received: from [132.151.6.22] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by manatick with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1AOOa9-0008WD-Su for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 16:49:30 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOOZq-0004Tz-5q; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 16:49:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOOZW-0004Pd-21 for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 16:48:43 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA03557 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 16:48:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOOZU-0005vu-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 16:48:40 -0500 Received: from ellis.ad.nps.navy.mil ([131.120.18.61] helo=[140.32.132.66]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOOZT-0005tx-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 16:48:39 -0500 Received: from no.name.available by [140.32.132.66] via smtpd (for [132.151.6.1]) with ESMTP; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 13:45:13 -0800 Received: from ro178-234.ro.nps.navy.mil ([131.120.178.234]) by ellis.ad.nps.navy.mil with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Mon, 24 Nov 2003 13:47:01 -0800 Subject: RE: [manet] MAC layer From: Rex Buddenberg To: #LI ZHIFEI# Cc: "Ioannis C. Avramopoulos" , manet@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <3D565922795545468AE3E3DA2881BEA901F85BDF@mail01.student.main.ntu.edu.sg> References: <3D565922795545468AE3E3DA2881BEA901F85BDF@mail01.student.main.ntu.edu.sg> Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1069710421.3763.10.camel@ro178-234.ro.nps.navy.mil> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.2.2 (1.2.2-5) Date: 24 Nov 2003 13:47:01 -0800 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Nov 2003 21:47:01.0711 (UTC) FILETIME=[7E3AF5F0:01C3B2D4] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You may find the question clearer if you look at it from a security vulnerability point of view. But first, we need to sort out layers properly. CDMA in packet switched radio networks is a physical layer function not a MAC layer one. Per 802 committee usage: - LLC sublayer (802.1, 802.2) ¥data link layer - MAC sublayer / - PMI sublayer ¥physical layer - Phy sublayer / CDMA (or FDMA or QAM) all fall in the Phy sublayer (or some purists would argue below that). MAC, by contrast, has to do with how stations take turns. Now to the security questions. What security attributes to we need at each layer to provide a complete solution? - at the MAC sublayer, the vulnerability to be worried about is traffic analysis and traffic flow analysis. The keys to that vulnerability are the MAC addresses (in ethernet terms, the factory-assigned hardware addresses). One proper approach to plugging this vulnerability is to encrypt these addresses is link encryption. - at the Phy sublare the vulnerabilities include Low Probability of Intercept/Detection and jam resistance. In commercial 802.11 jam resistance was properly considered; LPI/LPD was not. The single direct sequence spread spectrum code addresses jamming, but any netstumbler can find the correct PN code and intercept. Addition of more spreading codes would complicate the LPI/LPD problem (and probably complicate system configuration as well). (for completeness, layer 3 security measures provide for enclaving or perimeter control. Note that so far, all these measures protect the _infrastructure_, not the data directly. Layer 7 protections (SSL, ssh, S/MIME, all with PKI) are protections of the data and are consequently media-independent and can be arranged end-to-end -- something you can't do with any of the lower layer remedies.) On Sun, 2003-11-23 at 21:13, #LI ZHIFEI# wrote: > Hi, > > I think your question is: why CDMA is not used in ad hoc networks? I also try to figure out the reasons. > I have the following reasons: > (1) since ad hoc network is fully distributed, how to make the code orthogonal, and how to make the sender be aware of the code it should use before transmitting? > (2) again, due to the distributed nature, how to do the power control to cope with the inteference which is ensential for cdma system? > > However, the above difficulties do not mean that we should not try to apply CDMA into ad hoc networks. In fact, there is a paper talking about CDMA in ad hoc networks > in mobihoc 2003. The author is also on this list, and maybe he can give us his understanding. > > Also, it seems that in the literature about packet radio networks ( ad hoc networks developed for military use during 1970s), they normally use CDMA for security reason (i.e., jamming as you have mentioned). However, now there are very few papers talking about CDMA in ad hoc networks. Reasearch is really a little bit strange :). > > > Best regards > Li zhifei > > -----Original Message----- > From: manet-admin@ietf.org [mailto:manet-admin@ietf.org]On Behalf Of Ioannis C. Avramopoulos > Sent: dissabte, 22 / novembre / 2003 12:33 > To: manet@ietf.org > Subject: [manet] MAC layer > > Dear fellows, > > I have a question on the MAC layer used in ad hoc networks. > > In 802.11 nodes share the medium, i.e. they use the same > frequency hopping pattern or chip sequence. Had nodes used > orthogonal hopping patterns, spectrum utilization would > significantly increase and, furthermore, the impact of > malicious nodes with respect to jamming would be severely > mitigated. > > I am interested in the reasons that schemes of the latter > type are not considered in the ad hoc community. I would > appreciate it if you could point me to any papers discussing > such issues. > > Kind regards, > Yannis > > > > _______________________________________________ > manet mailing list > manet@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet > > _______________________________________________ > manet mailing list > manet@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet -- b _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 24 17:02:08 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA05356 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 17:02:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOOmH-0005Zt-6Z for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 17:01:53 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAOM1rFP021435 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 17:01:53 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOOmH-0005Ze-21 for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 17:01:53 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA05259 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 17:01:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOOmE-0006bk-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 17:01:50 -0500 Received: from manatick.foretec.com ([4.17.168.5] helo=manatick) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOOmD-0006bN-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 17:01:49 -0500 Received: from [132.151.6.22] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by manatick with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1AOOm9-0000IA-PU for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 17:01:46 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOOlc-0005Oh-Vv; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 17:01:12 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOOkj-0005Fs-KW for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 17:00:17 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA04917 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 17:00:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOOkh-0006R2-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 17:00:15 -0500 Received: from mail1.ku.edu ([129.237.35.130] helo=imc1.home.ku.edu) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOOkg-0006Qw-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 17:00:14 -0500 Received: from hawk2.home.ku.edu ([129.237.37.38]) by imc1.home.ku.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Mon, 24 Nov 2003 16:00:13 -0600 x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C3B2D6.55EE2D80" Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 16:00:13 -0600 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: Unsubscribe ME Thread-Index: AcOy1ldfDhBhYT20QZSS9myywO9EDA== From: "Shantha, Raghavendra Vasanth" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Nov 2003 22:00:13.0256 (UTC) FILETIME=[56072480:01C3B2D6] Subject: [manet] Unsubscribe ME Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C3B2D6.55EE2D80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Please Unsubscribe me. =20 Thanks, Raghavendra Shantha Project Coordinator, DEEC The University of Kansas 785-864-4539 raghu@ku.edu =20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C3B2D6.55EE2D80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

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=00 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C3B2D6.55EE2D80-- _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 24 17:23:46 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA06629 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 17:23:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOP79-0006zp-Se for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 17:23:28 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAOMNRE5026892 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 17:23:27 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOP79-0006zf-MB for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 17:23:27 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA06563 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 17:23:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOP74-00076L-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 17:23:22 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOP73-00076I-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 17:23:21 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOP6j-0006sU-Bk; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 17:23:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOP5q-0006ro-Bj for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 17:22:06 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA06503 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 17:21:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOP5n-00075X-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 17:22:03 -0500 Received: from postoffice02.princeton.edu ([128.112.130.38] helo=Princeton.EDU ident=root) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOP5m-00075L-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 17:22:03 -0500 Received: from smtpserver1.Princeton.EDU (smtpserver1.Princeton.EDU [128.112.129.65]) by Princeton.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAOMLwEE024121; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 17:21:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from Princeton.EDU (mailserver2.Princeton.EDU [128.112.128.25]) by smtpserver1.Princeton.EDU (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAOMLwhc027882; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 17:21:58 -0500 (EST) From: "Ioannis C. Avramopoulos" Received: from mmp02.Princeton.EDU[128.112.129.54] by imap2.Princeton.EDU (mshttpd); Mon, 24 Nov 2003 17:21:58 -0500 To: Rex Buddenberg Cc: manet@ietf.org Message-ID: <22471d9224a319.224a31922471d9@Princeton.EDU> Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 17:21:58 -0500 X-Mailer: iPlanet Messenger Express 5.2 HotFix 1.12 (built Feb 13 2003) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Language: en Subject: Re: RE: [manet] MAC layer X-Accept-Language: en Priority: normal Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Please see my question below. > Now to the security questions. > - at the Phy sublare the vulnerabilities include Low Probability of > Intercept/Detection and jam resistance. Any node in the network can jam the transmissions of any other node within transmission range trivially. So in what way is jam resistance properly considered? This attack is possible even by outsiders as the spreading code is made public. > In commercial 802.11 jam > resistance was properly considered; LPI/LPD was not. The single > directsequence spread spectrum code addresses jamming, but any > netstumbler can > find the correct PN code and intercept. Addition of more spreading > codes would complicate the LPI/LPD problem (and probably complicate > system configuration as well). The design would be more complex but the benefits, including performance and security, would be great I think. From the discussion I haven't heard any compelling reason not to do it. Yannis _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 24 18:04:28 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA08712 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 18:04:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOPkb-0000lH-5I for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 18:04:14 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAON4DXS002921 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 18:04:13 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOPkb-0000l2-0p for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 18:04:13 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA08658 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 18:03:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOPkY-0000AA-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 18:04:10 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOPkX-0000A7-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 18:04:09 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOPkQ-0000ie-3C; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 18:04:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOPk3-0000hm-Bv for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 18:03:39 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA08590 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 18:03:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOPk0-00009r-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 18:03:36 -0500 Received: from nestor.nmsu.edu ([128.123.34.146] helo=mail.nmsu.edu) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOPjz-00009o-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 18:03:35 -0500 Received: from PCMullen2 (pc-mullen-2.NMSU.Edu [128.123.245.103]) by mail.nmsu.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id A45D1201B; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 16:03:35 -0700 (MST) From: "John Mullen" To: "'Joe Macker'" , Subject: RE: [manet] MAC layer Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 16:03:35 -0700 Message-ID: <000001c3b2df$30787e40$67f57b80@IEngr.ad.nmsu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.2.20031124160430.0218c910@pop.itd.nrl.navy.mil> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Joe, I figured you would agree. :-) Technology is wonderful, when it works. I suppose one problem in this working group is trying to come up with a MANET protocol that works, not only in the variety of situations that exist today, but also in those likely to exist in the near future. BTW, we are looking for some "cheap off-the-shelf digital radio" that we can use over a distance of a few hundred meters. The only catch is we are looking for devices that we can connect to a computer and that will allow us to monitor the received power and/or S/N ratio. Any suggestions? John Mullen -----Original Message----- From: manet-admin@ietf.org [mailto:manet-admin@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Joe Macker Sent: Monday, November 24, 2003 2:31 PM To: John Mullen; manet@ietf.org Subject: RE: [manet] MAC layer At 03:47 PM 11/24/2003, John Mullen wrote: >Hi Joe, > >I guess it is good to bear in mind that this is an evolving situation. >My first wireless phone did OK out in the country, but when I moved to >the "big city" I found I needed a phone with more channels to avoid >interference with neighbors. I think as MANETs and other wireless >solutions become more common, it will become more necessary to include >more sophisticated methods and the simpler, less expensive, >alternatives will be phased out. In addition, as new technology is >developed, the more sophisticated options will become less and less >expensive. Eventually, manufacturers will not want to support both the >older and newer technology and the old stuff will be phased out. Absolutely, did you think I wasn't agreeing ? I am. (Even in the short history since IETFish MANET). 802.11 was relatively expensive and just becoming a standard while many of use were developing routing solutions and looking for a cheap off-the-shelf digital radio. We had heterogeneous wireless in mind. (there was early diffused IR work even)..and we still do keep this idea alive. Heterogeneity is what IP is good at...and its partly why we started this WG in this forum. This is not a research group, but better MACs are certain to evolve (the 802 series will move on). Some MAC/PHY combinations when they become widespread realities will likely require some redesign of the routing layer interface functions (e.g., different interface type classes). I worked on a variety of MAC types, including CDMA, in the 80s., and I expect to run UWB in my house as a grandad someday... ...let's trade 78s I have some Caruso but its going to cost you ;-> ------------------------- _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 24 18:08:31 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA09260 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 18:08:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOPoX-0001VI-58 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 18:08:17 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAON8HnJ005779 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 18:08:17 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOPoW-0001Ut-ED for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 18:08:16 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA09200 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 18:07:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOPoT-0000Ei-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 18:08:13 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOPoT-0000Ef-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 18:08:13 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOPoI-0001Je-Lq; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 18:08:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOPnY-00018X-G6 for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 18:07:16 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA09069 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 18:06:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOPnV-0000DU-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 18:07:13 -0500 Received: from s2.itd.nrl.navy.mil ([132.250.83.3]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOPnU-0000Ch-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 18:07:12 -0500 Received: from smtp.itd.nrl.navy.mil (smtp.itd.nrl.navy.mil [132.250.86.3]) by s2.itd.nrl.navy.mil (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.8) with SMTP id hAON6dMr028170 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 18:06:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from SEXTANT.itd.nrl.navy.mil ([132.250.92.22]) by smtp.itd.nrl.navy.mil (SAVSMTP 3.1.2.35) with SMTP id M2003112418064230735 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 18:06:42 -0500 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.2.20031124174952.027ad428@pop.itd.nrl.navy.mil> X-Sender: macker@pop.itd.nrl.navy.mil (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 18:06:53 -0500 To: manet@ietf.org From: Joe Macker Subject: Re: RE: [manet] MAC layer In-Reply-To: <22471d9224a319.224a31922471d9@Princeton.EDU> References: <22471d9224a319.224a31922471d9@Princeton.EDU> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , While I think this is interesting (and many in the forum have the technical background to discuss it) this is getting a little out of scope for this WG's charter. We are not chartered to design lower layers (the IEEE forum and others can be approached with arguments). I think everyone mostly agrees there can be better lower layers for wireless developed (they are also likely application specific). Some may even include subnet routing. Let's concentrate on the IP technology issues for better dynamic wireless routing. Heterogeneous interface considerations are fair game. If there's a specific lower layer with interfacing/behavior/IP interaction issues that's also fair game, because we can discuss how the routing layer should interface and perhaps behave over top of this interface layer. -Joe _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 24 19:05:46 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA12611 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 19:05:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOQhw-0004Zz-EG for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 19:05:33 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAP05Wm3017604 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 19:05:32 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOQhw-0004Zr-77 for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 19:05:32 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA12575 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 19:05:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOQhs-0001Ju-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 19:05:28 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOQhs-0001Jr-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 19:05:28 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOQhT-0004YD-Da; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 19:05:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOQhM-0004XY-A2 for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 19:04:56 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA12559 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 19:04:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOQhI-0001JQ-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 19:04:53 -0500 Received: from s2.itd.nrl.navy.mil ([132.250.83.3]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOQhH-0001Io-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 19:04:52 -0500 Received: from smtp.itd.nrl.navy.mil (smtp.itd.nrl.navy.mil [132.250.86.3]) by s2.itd.nrl.navy.mil (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.8) with SMTP id hAP04IMt029760; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 19:04:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from SEXTANT.itd.nrl.navy.mil ([132.250.92.22]) by smtp.itd.nrl.navy.mil (SAVSMTP 3.1.2.35) with SMTP id M2003112419041931375 ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 19:04:19 -0500 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.2.20031124185740.027828c0@pop.itd.nrl.navy.mil> X-Sender: macker@pop.itd.nrl.navy.mil (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 19:04:30 -0500 To: "John Mullen" , From: Joe Macker Subject: RE: [manet] MAC layer In-Reply-To: <000001c3b2df$30787e40$67f57b80@IEngr.ad.nmsu.edu> References: <6.0.0.22.2.20031124160430.0218c910@pop.itd.nrl.navy.mil> <000001c3b2df$30787e40$67f57b80@IEngr.ad.nmsu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , At 06:03 PM 11/24/2003, John Mullen wrote: >Hi Joe, > >I figured you would agree. > >:-) > >Technology is wonderful, when it works. I suppose one problem in this >working group is trying to come up with a MANET protocol that works, not >only in the variety of situations that exist today, but also in those >likely to exist in the near future. True... >BTW, we are looking for some "cheap off-the-shelf digital radio" that we >can use over a distance of a few hundred meters. The only catch is we >are looking for devices that we can connect to a computer and that will >allow us to monitor the received power and/or S/N ratio. Any >suggestions? We are looking for something similar... ;-) While some selected drivers, cards, and other wireless devices allow some level of this .. things could be improved. If you are going to do something with the information metric provided at a routing layer or neighbor discovery/management layer its also important to know how it was measured and potentially filtered or not. IMHO, some general improvements here would be welcome. -joe _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 24 22:57:31 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA19246 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 22:57:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOUKC-00071K-SL for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 22:57:17 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAP3vGL1026980 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 22:57:16 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOUKC-000715-Oc for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 22:57:16 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA19232 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 22:57:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOUK9-0004Zu-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 22:57:13 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOUK8-0004Zr-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 22:57:12 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOUJy-0006zt-4y; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 22:57:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOUJa-0006zH-MK for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 22:56:38 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA19219 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 22:56:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOUJX-0004ZW-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 22:56:35 -0500 Received: from smtp-mclean-x.mitre.org ([192.80.55.71] helo=smtp-mclean.mitre.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOUJW-0004ZT-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 22:56:34 -0500 Received: from smtp-mclean.mitre.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp-mclean.mitre.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id hAOIK8A15288 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 13:20:08 -0500 Received: from MAILHUB1 (mailhub1.mitre.org [129.83.20.31]) by smtp-mclean.mitre.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id hAOIK6l15230; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 13:20:06 -0500 Received: from m29103-pc.mitre.org (128.29.55.48) by mailhub1.mitre.org with SMTP id 5063802; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 13:20:03 -0500 Message-ID: <3FC24BD2.39E1E532@mitre.org> Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 13:20:02 -0500 From: John Stine Organization: The MITRE Corporation X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en]C-20020130M (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Prasanna.Padmanabhan-1" CC: manet@ietf.org Subject: Re: [manet] Bandwidth vs Transmission Range References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Prassana, The modulation schemes that provide the 1, 2, 5.5 and 11 Mbps data rates all use the same bandwidth of RF spectrum. The result is that the 1 Mbps data rate has about a 10 dB processing gain as compared to the 11 Mbps data rate. So as a rough estimate in 802.11, given the same transmit power, the SNR advantage data rate x has over data rate y is y/x. That is, data rate y needs y/x more signal power in order to have the same BER as data rate x. Since the maximum transmit power of 802.11 is regulated, the transmission range of the data rates change. Graphs in the following reference will give you a better comparison of the performance of the modulation schemes. C. Heegard, et al, "High Performance Wireless Ethernet," IEEE Communications Magazine, Nov 2001. pp. 64 -73. An interesting problem that I have not found any information on is how these modulation schemes affect each other. MANET channels are interference limited not noise limited. The data rate control schemes that I have read about assume communication to and from base stations and so no interference. I would imagine in MANETS, using the different data rates with the data rate selection schemes that come with the devices will exacerbate the hidden terminal problems that result from interference having a greater range than the RTS/CTS virtual sensing range. By the way, I imagine that most M&S environments fail to capture these effects and the problems they cause. John "Prasanna.Padmanabhan-1" wrote: > Hello Everyone, > > In one of the WLAN cards (Wireless LAN Mini PCI Type 3A card), I see that for higher bandwidth cards they offer, the transmission range decreases. > > For example, a 1 Mbps WLAN card has a tranmission range of 550m, > a 2 Mbps WLAN card has a tranmission range of 400m, > a 11 Mbps WLAN card has a tranmission range of 160m. > > Does that mean that bandwidth and transmission range are inversely proportional. > I understand transmission range is related to Power. But how is it related to Bandwidth? > > Please let me know. > Thanks, > Prasanna > > _______________________________________________ > manet mailing list > manet@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 24 23:28:43 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA19977 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 23:28:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOUoG-0008Pc-K6 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 23:28:27 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAP4SKa3032333 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 23:28:20 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOUoG-0008PQ-Ef for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 23:28:20 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA19964 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 23:28:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOUoE-0004wZ-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 23:28:18 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOUoE-0004wW-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 23:28:18 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOUnx-0008I8-LH; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 23:28:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOUnt-0008Hv-PG for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 23:27:58 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA19961 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 23:27:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOUnr-0004wL-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 23:27:55 -0500 Received: from wasp.ece.queensu.ca ([130.15.22.4]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOUnr-0004wI-00 for manet@ietf.org; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 23:27:55 -0500 Received: from Acer100 ([24.226.32.182]) by wasp.ECE.QUEENSU.CA with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Mon, 24 Nov 2003 23:28:38 -0500 From: "Chi-Hsiang Yeh" To: "'Manfredi, Albert E'" , "'Ioannis C. Avramopoulos'" , , Subject: RE: [manet] MAC layer Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 23:27:37 -0500 Message-ID: <00c001c3b30c$77abc0b0$6ea8fea9@Acer100> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Nov 2003 04:28:38.0390 (UTC) FILETIME=[98F86160:01C3B30C] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > You don't use perfectly orthogonal codes in CDMA, as that would require synchronized transmissions, impossible to achieve when mobile hosts move about. But that doesn't stop 2G and 3G from working. This is not true. IS-95 and cdma2000 both use Walsh codes for forward link, and W-CDMA uses OVSF for downlink. Both Walsh codes and OVSF are (perfectly) orthogonal codes. For cellular networks, mobility is not the issue as far as orthogonality is concerned, but multipath is. For ad hoc networks, orthogonality is not possible due to different propagation delays between the desired reception and the signals from other nearby nodes (especially from very close nodes). Chihsiang -----Original Message----- From: manet-admin@ietf.org [mailto:manet-admin@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Manfredi, Albert E Sent: Monday, November 24, 2003 9:48 AM To: Ioannis C. Avramopoulos; manet@ietf.org Subject: RE: [manet] MAC layer Hi Guys, I think Yannis is asking something different. CDMA, exactly as implemented in 2G and 3G cellular networks, is of course not used in IEEE 802.11. For one thing, IEEE 802.11 is not a circuit-based technique. But the fundamentals of the scheme, i.e. use of direct sequence spread spectrum, are indeed used in IEEE 802.11b. I think what Yannis was asking is why aren't individual 802.11 LANs differentiated by the spreading sequence used in creating chips out of bits, as done in CDMA cellular phones. Instead of differentiating purely on the basis of the carrier frequency. You don't use perfectly orthogonal codes in CDMA, as that would require synchronized transmissions, impossible to achieve when mobile hosts move about. But that doesn't stop 2G and 3G from working. What happens is, as more and more users share the same frequncy band, the noise level for each user increases, until the noise overwhelms the channel. So you have a soft ceiling on number of users that can share a frequncy band, unlike TDMA where the limit is hard. I don't know why 802.11 doesn't use differnt spreading sequences as well as different frequency bands to differentiate LANs. One reason might be to simplify the design. Another might be that allowing multiple spreading sequences in the same frequency band will increase the noise level and reduce performance in umpredictable ways. Bert > -----Original Message----- > From: #LI ZHIFEI# [mailto:zhifeili@pmail.ntu.edu.sg] > Sent: Monday, November 24, 2003 12:13 AM > To: Ioannis C. Avramopoulos; manet@ietf.org > Subject: RE: [manet] MAC layer > > > Hi, > > I think your question is: why CDMA is not used in ad hoc > networks? I also try to figure out the reasons. > I have the following reasons: > (1) since ad hoc network is fully distributed, how to make > the code orthogonal, and how to make the sender be aware of > the code it should use before transmitting? > (2) again, due to the distributed nature, how to do the power > control to cope with the inteference which is ensential for > cdma system? > > However, the above difficulties do not mean that we should > not try to apply CDMA into ad hoc networks. In fact, there is > a paper talking about CDMA in ad hoc networks > in mobihoc 2003. The author is also on this list, and maybe > he can give us his understanding. > > Also, it seems that in the literature about packet radio > networks ( ad hoc networks developed for military use during > 1970s), they normally use CDMA for security reason (i.e., > jamming as you have mentioned). However, now there are very > few papers talking about CDMA in ad hoc networks. Reasearch > is really a little bit strange :). > > > Best regards > Li zhifei > > -----Original Message----- > From: manet-admin@ietf.org [mailto:manet-admin@ietf.org]On > Behalf Of Ioannis C. Avramopoulos > Sent: dissabte, 22 / novembre / 2003 12:33 > To: manet@ietf.org > Subject: [manet] MAC layer > > Dear fellows, > > I have a question on the MAC layer used in ad hoc networks. > > In 802.11 nodes share the medium, i.e. they use the same > frequency hopping pattern or chip sequence. Had nodes used > orthogonal hopping patterns, spectrum utilization would > significantly increase and, furthermore, the impact of > malicious nodes with respect to jamming would be severely > mitigated. > > I am interested in the reasons that schemes of the latter > type are not considered in the ad hoc community. I would > appreciate it if you could point me to any papers discussing > such issues. > > Kind regards, > Yannis > > > > _______________________________________________ > manet mailing list > manet@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet > > _______________________________________________ > manet mailing list > manet@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet > _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 25 00:11:32 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA21095 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 00:11:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOVTp-0001mX-5D for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 00:11:17 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAP5BH6A006846 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 00:11:17 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOVTo-0001mL-Sh for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 00:11:16 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA21081 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 00:11:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOVTm-0005Ub-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 00:11:14 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOVTm-0005UY-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 00:11:14 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOVTb-0001iJ-0a; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 00:11:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOVTK-0001hp-8z for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 00:10:46 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA21065 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 00:10:30 -0500 (EST) From: manigandan_p@email.com Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOVTH-0005UI-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 00:10:43 -0500 Received: from 205-158-62-67.outblaze.com ([205.158.62.67] helo=spf13.us4.outblaze.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOVTH-0005UA-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 00:10:43 -0500 Received: from 205-158-62-146.outblaze.com (205-158-62-146.outblaze.com [205.158.62.146]) by spf13.us4.outblaze.com (Postfix) with QMQP id 5615918002AD for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 05:10:14 +0000 (GMT) Received: (qmail 18328 invoked from network); 25 Nov 2003 05:10:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ws3-2.us4.outblaze.com) (205.158.62.92) by 205-158-62-146.outblaze.com with SMTP; 25 Nov 2003 05:10:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 1094 invoked by uid 1001); 25 Nov 2003 05:10:14 -0000 Message-ID: <20031125051014.1093.qmail@email.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.41 (Entity 5.404) Received: from [129.15.78.149] by ws3-2.us4.outblaze.com with http for manigandan_p@email.com; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 00:10:14 -0500 To: manet@ietf.org Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 00:10:14 -0500 X-Originating-Ip: 129.15.78.149 X-Originating-Server: ws3-2.us4.outblaze.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [manet] Power consumption questions Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Everyone, Im a beginner to MANET field of research. I have a question regarding power consumption of a mobile node. I have read through the archives and found a couple of papers which address this issue. [Feeney, 2001] - Investigating the Energy Consumption of a Wireless Network Interface in an Ad Hoc Networking Environment [Jean-Pierre Ebert, 2002] - A trace based approach for determining the energy consumption of a WLAN network interface. and a couple more. But all these determine the "power consumed by the communication device - WLAN card". Im assuming the mobile nodes to be hand held devices - PDA in my simulation model. I feel that the power consumed by such PDA is 1. "power consumed by the communication device - WLAN card" - plus (+) 2. "power consumed by the mobile host while processing - computing power" These together would give us a more precise value of the power consumed by the PDA. Am I right ? If yes, how can I find the "power consumed by mobile host for processing in different modes of operation" like active mode, doze mode and sleep mode ? Please guide me on this. Thanks, Manigandan -- ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 25 00:21:26 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA21329 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 00:21:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOVdQ-0002Ng-5q for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 00:21:12 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAP5LCPI009146 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 00:21:12 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOVdQ-0002NR-2f for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 00:21:12 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA21310 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 00:20:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOVdN-0005cl-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 00:21:09 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOVdN-0005ci-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 00:21:09 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOVdG-0002JK-FA; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 00:21:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOVcs-0002Io-9B for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 00:20:38 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA21297 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 00:20:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOVcp-0005cK-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 00:20:35 -0500 Received: from smtp-mclean-x.mitre.org ([192.80.55.71] helo=smtp-mclean.mitre.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOVcp-0005cH-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 00:20:35 -0500 Received: from smtp-mclean.mitre.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp-mclean.mitre.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id hAOJJLA15775 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 14:19:21 -0500 Received: from MAILHUB1 (mailhub1.mitre.org [129.83.20.31]) by smtp-mclean.mitre.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id hAOJJLl15755 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 14:19:21 -0500 Received: from m29103-pc.mitre.org (128.29.55.48) by mailhub1.mitre.org with SMTP id 5065323; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 14:19:19 -0500 Message-ID: <3FC259B6.8CB427B3@mitre.org> Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 14:19:18 -0500 From: John Stine Organization: The MITRE Corporation X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en]C-20020130M (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: manet@ietf.org Subject: [Fwd: Re: [manet] MAC layer] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Actually, the biggest issue is not knowing which channel to transmit on but knowing which channel to listen to. The problem is that in ad hoc networks, broadcasting is essential to link and topology discovery. Nodes must share a channel to receive broadcasts. Say we use receiver directed codes for peer-to-peer packets. From the transmitters point of view the solution is simple, use the broadcast code to broadcast packets and use the receiver directed code of the destination for peer-to-peer packets. In an asynchronous protocol like 802.11, an active node does not when it will receive a packet nor if the next packet it will receive will be broadcast or peer-to-peer. It really isn't possible for it to know which channel to listen to. A second issue in carrier sensing protocols such as 802.11 is that getting a benefit from CDMA requires relaxing the carrier sensing and virtual sensing mechanisms which can result in a near-far condition. A contender may start transmitting during its neighbor's reception since it does not defer as it would if it were virtual sensing. Even though it uses a different code, the contender may interfere with the ongoing reception on account of its relative proximity to that node. John #LI ZHIFEI# wrote: > Hi, > > I think your question is: why CDMA is not used in ad hoc networks? I also try to figure out the reasons. > I have the following reasons: > (1) since ad hoc network is fully distributed, how to make the code orthogonal, and how to make the sender be aware of the code it should use before transmitting? > (2) again, due to the distributed nature, how to do the power control to cope with the inteference which is ensential for cdma system? > > However, the above difficulties do not mean that we should not try to apply CDMA into ad hoc networks. In fact, there is a paper talking about CDMA in ad hoc networks > in mobihoc 2003. The author is also on this list, and maybe he can give us his understanding. > > Also, it seems that in the literature about packet radio networks ( ad hoc networks developed for military use during 1970s), they normally use CDMA for security reason (i.e., jamming as you have mentioned). However, now there are very few papers talking about CDMA in ad hoc networks. Reasearch is really a little bit strange :). > > Best regards > Li zhifei > > -----Original Message----- > From: manet-admin@ietf.org [mailto:manet-admin@ietf.org]On Behalf Of Ioannis C. Avramopoulos > Sent: dissabte, 22 / novembre / 2003 12:33 > To: manet@ietf.org > Subject: [manet] MAC layer > > Dear fellows, > > I have a question on the MAC layer used in ad hoc networks. > > In 802.11 nodes share the medium, i.e. they use the same > frequency hopping pattern or chip sequence. Had nodes used > orthogonal hopping patterns, spectrum utilization would > significantly increase and, furthermore, the impact of > malicious nodes with respect to jamming would be severely > mitigated. > > I am interested in the reasons that schemes of the latter > type are not considered in the ad hoc community. I would > appreciate it if you could point me to any papers discussing > such issues. > > Kind regards, > Yannis > > _______________________________________________ > manet mailing list > manet@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet > > _______________________________________________ > manet mailing list > manet@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 25 00:55:30 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA21912 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 00:55:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOWAN-0003VV-Ns for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 00:55:16 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAP5tF42013480 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 00:55:15 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOWAN-0003VL-Kb for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 00:55:15 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA21898 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 00:54:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOWAK-0005yf-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 00:55:12 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOWAK-0005yc-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 00:55:12 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOWAB-0003UA-FP; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 00:55:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOW9B-0003TW-NF for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 00:54:01 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA21883 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 00:53:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOW96-0005yA-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 00:53:56 -0500 Received: from mbox1.ntu.edu.sg ([155.69.5.171]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOW95-0005xn-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 00:53:55 -0500 Received: from mail01.student.main.ntu.edu.sg ([155.69.5.165]) by mbox1.ntu.edu.sg with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5576); Tue, 25 Nov 2003 13:12:11 +0800 Subject: RE: [manet] Simulating 802.11b and g MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 13:12:09 +0800 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Message-ID: <3D565922795545468AE3E3DA2881BEA901F85C01@mail01.student.main.ntu.edu.sg> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.6944.0 Thread-Topic: [manet] Simulating 802.11b and g Thread-Index: AcOtu2xOu/bT6oxEQxuyARTjNBUdtgABXIyQASJYYAAAEVBTEAAgXQhg From: "#LI ZHIFEI#" To: "Frank Li" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Nov 2003 05:12:11.0914 (UTC) FILETIME=[AEC07EA0:01C3B312] Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Frank >>>I think you are talking about the PMD_ED and PMD_CS thresholds in the = standard.=20 Yes, I refer to that. >>> Is it always true that PMD_CS < PMD_ED? Do you know the concrete = values of PMD_CS and PMD_ED thresholds for any wlan card? I am not familar with the parameters used in practical WLAN cards. = However, for the standard itself, the condition PMD_CS < PMD_ED should = be true, at least for IEEE 802.11a where the PMD_ED is 20 DB greater than PMD_CS. >>>Furthermore, is it correct to use 'receiver sensitivity' to calculate = sensing range?=20 I think the receiver-sensitivity is used to calculate the transmission = range, while the CCA sensitivity (or CS threshold) is used to calculate = the sensing range. Please point out if I made any mistakes. Best regards Li zhifei -----Original Message----- From: Frank Li [mailto:frank.li@unik.no] Sent: dilluns, 24 / novembre / 2003 21:41 To: #LI ZHIFEI# Cc: manet@ietf.org Subject: RE: [manet] Simulating 802.11b and g Hi Zhifei, I think you are talking about the PMD_ED and PMD_CS thresholds in the = standard. Is it always=20 true that PMD_CS < PMD_ED? Do you know the concrete values of PMD_CS and = PMD_ED thresholds for any wlan card? Furthermore, is it correct to use = 'receiver sensitivity' to calculate sensing range?=20 Frank -----Original Message----- From: #LI ZHIFEI# [mailto:zhifeili@pmail.ntu.edu.sg] Sent: 24. november 2003 06:33 To: Frank Li; manet@ietf.org Subject: RE: [manet] Simulating 802.11b and g Hi, frank Here is my answer to your question though my answer is definitely not = 'autoritative' as you are looking for :): Whenever the received power of a frame is above the CS threshold and the = channel is sensed as busy, whether or not the PLCP header of that frame can be received correctly = depends on how large the carrier sensing energy threshold is. If the threshold is large enough, the PLCP header can = always be interpreted. Otherwise, there is some possibility that the = PLCP is un-interpretable. However, since the PLCP header is very short and is always transmitted in the lowest = rate, the probability that the PLCP header is interpretable should be = very large. This is especially true if the wireless card developers = follow the recommented value of the threshold in the standard.=20 I hope this will help. Best regards Li zhifei >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me repeat the same question in my previous mail. Assume the received = power is just above the CS threshold and the channel is sensed as busy. = Does this mean that the PHY header (PMD/PLCP) can be correctly decoded = but not the MPDU, or even the PHY header itself can NOT be decoded? Can = anyone give me an 'authoritative' answer to this point? Thanks. Frank -----Original Message----- From: manet-admin@ietf.org [mailto:manet-admin@ietf.org]On Behalf Of = Frank Li Sent: dimarts, 18 / novembre / 2003 20:10 To: Claude Chaudet Cc: manet@ietf.org Subject: RE: [manet] Simulating 802.11b and g Hi Claude,=20 I guess you are using two-ray model with 'receiver sensitivity' -83 dBm = and Tx power 15 dBm to get the following CS threshold. Phy/WirelessPhy set CSThresh_ 5.011872e-12 My question is - is it sensible to use 'receiver sensitivity' to = calculate CS threshold? (Using the same calculation for -94 dBm at 1 = Mbps, the sensing range will be 796 m). Furthermore, does the CS threshold mean that the PHY header can be = correctly decoded if received power is above the threshold, or the = channel is sensed as busy but the PHY header can NOT be decoded?=20 BTW, CPThresh is the capture threshold, not required SNR to 'understand' = the frame. When multiple frames are detected, the frame with strongest = power (CPThresh>10) will be decoded, otherwise, all frames are = discarded.=20 BR Frank =20 -----Original Message----- From: Claude Chaudet [mailto:Claude.Chaudet@ens-lyon.fr] Sent: 18. november 2003 10:59 To: Emmanuel Agu Cc: manet@ietf.org Subject: Re: [manet] Simulating 802.11b and g Hello, That's true, NS (at least version 2.26) simulates 2Mbps 802.11. Nevertheless, you can change this by simply putting in your script the=20 following lines : Mac/802_11 set bandwidth_ 11e6 Mac/802_11 set dataRate_ 11e6 Mac/802_11 set basicRate_ 2e6 This only changes the rate at which data is sent. This can be useful=20 for simulating 802.11b protocol, for which only the physical layer changes. But=20 simulating 802.11a will need at least some timings modifications in the mac/mac-802_11.*=20 files. Concerning the physical layer parameters, I tried to update some=20 parameters based on the specification of an Avaya card. Nevertheless, being no expert in=20 physical layers, I cannot guarantee this will be the exact parameters. Here they are : Phy/WirelessPhy set CPThresh_ 10.0 Phy/WirelessPhy set CSThresh_ 5.011872e-12 Phy/WirelessPhy set RXThresh_ 1.15209e-10 Phy/WirelessPhy set Rb_ 11e6 Phy/WirelessPhy set bandwidth_ 11e6 Phy/WirelessPhy set Pt_ 0.031622777 Phy/WirelessPhy set freq_ 2457e+6 Phy/WirelessPhy set L_ 1.0 Concerning this, I wondered if anyone on this list could provide good=20 values once and for all, so that we can use ns, opnet and any other simulator on=20 the same basis. I am especially interested in the CPThresh parameter, i.e. the signal=20 over noise ratio (in dB) required to understand a frame. I found no value in any=20 NIC specification. I suppose it depends on the physical layer. 10 dB was used for early=20 802.11, is it still the good value for newer ones ? Claude Chaudet. _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 25 01:29:55 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA22573 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 01:29:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOWhe-00055P-Da for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 01:29:38 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAP6Tc2h019549 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 01:29:38 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOWhe-00055D-7H for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 01:29:38 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA22562 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 01:29:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOWhb-0006Kr-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 01:29:35 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOWha-0006Ko-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 01:29:34 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOWh3-0004xK-Qg; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 01:29:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOWgT-0004w8-Un for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 01:28:25 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA22509 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 01:28:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOWgQ-0006JF-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 01:28:22 -0500 Received: from mail11.ntu.edu.sg ([155.69.5.163]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOWgQ-0006IW-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 01:28:22 -0500 Received: from mail01.student.main.ntu.edu.sg ([155.69.5.165]) by mail11.ntu.edu.sg with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5576); Tue, 25 Nov 2003 13:55:00 +0800 Subject: RE: [manet] MAC layer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 13:55:02 +0800 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Message-ID: <3D565922795545468AE3E3DA2881BEA901F85C02@mail01.student.main.ntu.edu.sg> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.6944.0 Thread-Topic: [manet] MAC layer Thread-Index: AcOzFdgG/pMFCm7DT4KNXLdtNNQ+PQAAD23A From: "#LI ZHIFEI#" To: "John Stine" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Nov 2003 05:55:00.0460 (UTC) FILETIME=[A9B982C0:01C3B318] Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, John One possible method is to use a common code for the header parter, while = using a receiver-based / transmiter-based code (in the case of = peer-to-peer mode) ,=20 or transmiter-based / common-code (in case of broadcast) for the actual = payload part. Therefore, a node only needs to listen to the channel with = common-code. I am not sure it works, please clarify. Best regards Li zhifei -----Original Message----- From: John Stine [mailto:jstine@mitre.org] Sent: dimarts, 25 / novembre / 2003 03:09 To: #LI ZHIFEI# Subject: Re: [manet] MAC layer Actually, the biggest issue is not knowing which channel to transmit on = but knowing which channel to listen to. The problem is that in ad hoc = networks, broadcasting is essential to link and topology discovery. = Nodes must share a channel to receive broadcasts. Say we use receiver = directed codes for peer-to-peer packets. From the transmitters point of view the solution is simple, use the broadcast = code to broadcast packets and use the receiver directed code of the = destination for peer-to-peer packets. In an asynchronous protocol like = 802.11, an active node does not when it will receive a packet nor if the = next packet it will receive will be broadcast or peer-to-peer. It really isn't possible for it to know which channel to = listen to. A second issue in carrier sensing protocols such as 802.11 is that = getting a benefit from CDMA requires relaxing the carrier sensing and = virtual sensing mechanisms which can result in a near-far condition. A = contender may start transmitting during its neighbor's reception since = it does not defer as it would if it were virtual sensing. Even though it uses a different code, the contender may = interfere with the ongoing reception on account of its relative = proximity to that node. John #LI ZHIFEI# wrote: > Hi, > > I think your question is: why CDMA is not used in ad hoc networks? I = also try to figure out the reasons. > I have the following reasons: > (1) since ad hoc network is fully distributed, how to make the code = orthogonal, and how to make the sender be aware of the code it should = use before transmitting? > (2) again, due to the distributed nature, how to do the power control = to cope with the inteference which is ensential for cdma system? > > However, the above difficulties do not mean that we should not try to = apply CDMA into ad hoc networks. In fact, there is a paper talking about = CDMA in ad hoc networks > in mobihoc 2003. The author is also on this list, and maybe he can = give us his understanding. > > Also, it seems that in the literature about packet radio networks ( ad = hoc networks developed for military use during 1970s), they normally use = CDMA for security reason (i.e., jamming as you have mentioned). However, = now there are very few papers talking about CDMA in ad hoc networks. = Reasearch is really a little bit strange :). > > Best regards > Li zhifei > > -----Original Message----- > From: manet-admin@ietf.org [mailto:manet-admin@ietf.org]On Behalf Of = Ioannis C. Avramopoulos > Sent: dissabte, 22 / novembre / 2003 12:33 > To: manet@ietf.org > Subject: [manet] MAC layer > > Dear fellows, > > I have a question on the MAC layer used in ad hoc networks. > > In 802.11 nodes share the medium, i.e. they use the same > frequency hopping pattern or chip sequence. Had nodes used > orthogonal hopping patterns, spectrum utilization would > significantly increase and, furthermore, the impact of > malicious nodes with respect to jamming would be severely > mitigated. > > I am interested in the reasons that schemes of the latter > type are not considered in the ad hoc community. I would > appreciate it if you could point me to any papers discussing > such issues. > > Kind regards, > Yannis > > _______________________________________________ > manet mailing list > manet@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet > > _______________________________________________ > manet mailing list > manet@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 25 02:46:40 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA07116 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 02:46:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOXtw-0001ZN-2d for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 02:46:24 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAP7kOJr006030 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 02:46:24 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOXtv-0001ZB-R6 for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 02:46:23 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA07096 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 02:46:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOXtr-0007Ic-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 02:46:19 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOXtr-0007IZ-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 02:46:19 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOXta-0001XY-JY; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 02:46:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOXsk-0001WF-1q for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 02:45:10 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA07072 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 02:44:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOXsg-0007I2-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 02:45:06 -0500 Received: from smtp-mclean-x.mitre.org ([192.80.55.71] helo=smtp-mclean.mitre.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOXsf-0007Hy-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 02:45:05 -0500 Received: from smtp-mclean.mitre.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp-mclean.mitre.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id hAOK3IA09529 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 15:03:18 -0500 Received: from MAILHUB2 (mailhub2.mitre.org [129.83.221.18]) by smtp-mclean.mitre.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id hAOK3Gl09489; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 15:03:17 -0500 Received: from m29103-pc.mitre.org (128.29.55.48) by mailhub2.mitre.org with SMTP id 478834; Mon, 24 Nov 2003 15:03:08 -0500 Message-ID: <3FC263FC.E1D9DAC5@mitre.org> Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 15:03:08 -0500 From: John Stine Organization: The MITRE Corporation X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en]C-20020130M (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: John Mullen CC: manet@ietf.org Subject: Re: [manet] MAC layer References: <000501c3b2bb$eee43eb0$67f57b80@IEngr.ad.nmsu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John, The complexity of code assignment depends on your assignment scheme. If using a receiver directed coding scheme, assignment can be trivial. Given n codes choose one none of your two hop neighbors are using and broadcast it to your neighbors. If there are not enough codes, randomly select one on a periodic basis and broadcast it to your neighbors. If you have a code but another node moves in range of you using the same code, choose a new code using one of the techniques above. Even when a node has a neighbor that uses the same code, it will usually be rare that contenders will be sending a packet to different destinations that use the same code. In an access scheme that I have been working on, this conflict occurred <0.5% of the contentions in a congested degree 10 network using 10 codes. Note that in this network codes were reused 4 times on average in a two-hop range. John John Mullen wrote: > Hi, > > I think the answer is simpler than that. For CDMA to work, someone has > to decide which channel each user should use. This is managed by the > base station in a cellular system, but in a MANET, could be a big > headache. An exception to this could be MANETs associated with specific > organizations, such as the military, police, EMT, etc., in which channel > assignments could be made and managed via some network plan. In > general, however, it would just be too unwieldy to manage. > > John Mullen > > -----Original Message----- > From: manet-admin@ietf.org [mailto:manet-admin@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > Manfredi, Albert E > Sent: Monday, November 24, 2003 7:48 AM > To: Ioannis C. Avramopoulos; manet@ietf.org > Subject: RE: [manet] MAC layer > > Hi Guys, > > I think Yannis is asking something different. > > CDMA, exactly as implemented in 2G and 3G cellular networks, is of > course not used in IEEE 802.11. For one thing, IEEE 802.11 is not a > circuit-based technique. But the fundamentals of the scheme, i.e. use of > direct sequence spread spectrum, are indeed used in IEEE 802.11b. > > I think what Yannis was asking is why aren't individual 802.11 LANs > differentiated by the spreading sequence used in creating chips out of > bits, as done in CDMA cellular phones. Instead of differentiating purely > on the basis of the carrier frequency. > > You don't use perfectly orthogonal codes in CDMA, as that would require > synchronized transmissions, impossible to achieve when mobile hosts move > about. But that doesn't stop 2G and 3G from working. What happens is, as > more and more users share the same frequncy band, the noise level for > each user increases, until the noise overwhelms the channel. So you have > a soft ceiling on number of users that can share a frequncy band, unlike > TDMA where the limit is hard. > > I don't know why 802.11 doesn't use differnt spreading sequences as well > as different frequency bands to differentiate LANs. One reason might be > to simplify the design. Another might be that allowing multiple > spreading sequences in the same frequency band will increase the noise > level and reduce performance in umpredictable ways. > > Bert > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: #LI ZHIFEI# [mailto:zhifeili@pmail.ntu.edu.sg] > > Sent: Monday, November 24, 2003 12:13 AM > > To: Ioannis C. Avramopoulos; manet@ietf.org > > Subject: RE: [manet] MAC layer > > > > > > Hi, > > > > I think your question is: why CDMA is not used in ad hoc > > networks? I also try to figure out the reasons. > > I have the following reasons: > > (1) since ad hoc network is fully distributed, how to make > > the code orthogonal, and how to make the sender be aware of > > the code it should use before transmitting? > > (2) again, due to the distributed nature, how to do the power > > control to cope with the inteference which is ensential for > > cdma system? > > > > However, the above difficulties do not mean that we should > > not try to apply CDMA into ad hoc networks. In fact, there is > > a paper talking about CDMA in ad hoc networks > > in mobihoc 2003. The author is also on this list, and maybe > > he can give us his understanding. > > > > Also, it seems that in the literature about packet radio > > networks ( ad hoc networks developed for military use during > > 1970s), they normally use CDMA for security reason (i.e., > > jamming as you have mentioned). However, now there are very > > few papers talking about CDMA in ad hoc networks. Reasearch > > is really a little bit strange :). > > > > > > Best regards > > Li zhifei > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: manet-admin@ietf.org [mailto:manet-admin@ietf.org]On > > Behalf Of Ioannis C. Avramopoulos > > Sent: dissabte, 22 / novembre / 2003 12:33 > > To: manet@ietf.org > > Subject: [manet] MAC layer > > > > Dear fellows, > > > > I have a question on the MAC layer used in ad hoc networks. > > > > In 802.11 nodes share the medium, i.e. they use the same frequency > > hopping pattern or chip sequence. Had nodes used orthogonal hopping > > patterns, spectrum utilization would significantly increase and, > > furthermore, the impact of malicious nodes with respect to jamming > > would be severely mitigated. > > > > I am interested in the reasons that schemes of the latter type are not > > > considered in the ad hoc community. I would appreciate it if you could > > > point me to any papers discussing such issues. > > > > Kind regards, > > Yannis > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > manet mailing list > > manet@ietf.org > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet > > > > _______________________________________________ > > manet mailing list > > manet@ietf.org > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet > > > > _______________________________________________ > manet mailing list > manet@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet > > _______________________________________________ > manet mailing list > manet@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 25 06:58:29 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA14405 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 06:58:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AObpe-0004EO-RE for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 06:58:15 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAPBwEfC016260 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 06:58:14 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AObpe-0004EB-NX for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 06:58:14 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA14379 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 06:57:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AObpa-0002u2-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 06:58:10 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AObpZ-0002ty-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 06:58:09 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AObpS-0004D0-KU; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 06:58:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AObot-0004CX-7h for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 06:57:27 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA14354 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 06:57:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOboo-0002t0-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 06:57:22 -0500 Received: from smtp-mclean-x.mitre.org ([192.80.55.71] helo=smtp-mclean.mitre.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOboo-0002sx-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 06:57:22 -0500 Received: from smtp-mclean.mitre.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp-mclean.mitre.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id hAPBvOL25740 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 06:57:24 -0500 Received: from MAILHUB1 (mailhub1.mitre.org [129.83.20.31]) by smtp-mclean.mitre.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id hAPBvNl25728; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 06:57:24 -0500 Received: from wmodempoo1-18.mitre.org (128.29.251.18) by mailhub1.mitre.org with SMTP id 5072053; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 06:57:19 -0500 Message-ID: <3FC3439D.4478FD80@mitre.org> Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 06:57:17 -0500 From: John Stine Organization: The MITRE Corporation X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en]C-20020130M (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: #LI ZHIFEI# CC: manet@ietf.org Subject: Re: [manet] MAC layer References: <3D565922795545468AE3E3DA2881BEA901F85C02@mail01.student.main.ntu.edu.sg> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Li Zhifei As I remember, this is similar to the solution in the Sousa and Silvester paper that was identified earlier. I can see no reason why this can't be implemented in an asynchronous access protocol but it doesn't solve the near-far problem that comes with asynchronous access. John #LI ZHIFEI# wrote: > Hi, John > > One possible method is to use a common code for the header parter, while using a receiver-based / transmiter-based code (in the case of peer-to-peer mode) , > or transmiter-based / common-code (in case of broadcast) for the actual payload part. Therefore, a node only needs to listen to the channel with common-code. > > I am not sure it works, please clarify. > > Best regards > Li zhifei > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Stine [mailto:jstine@mitre.org] > Sent: dimarts, 25 / novembre / 2003 03:09 > To: #LI ZHIFEI# > Subject: Re: [manet] MAC layer > > Actually, the biggest issue is not knowing which channel to transmit on but knowing which channel to listen to. The problem is that in ad hoc networks, broadcasting is essential to link and topology discovery. Nodes must share a channel to receive broadcasts. Say we use receiver directed codes for peer-to-peer packets. From the > transmitters point of view the solution is simple, use the broadcast code to broadcast packets and use the receiver directed code of the destination for peer-to-peer packets. In an asynchronous protocol like 802.11, an active node does not when it will receive a packet nor if the next packet it will receive will be broadcast or > peer-to-peer. It really isn't possible for it to know which channel to listen to. > > A second issue in carrier sensing protocols such as 802.11 is that getting a benefit from CDMA requires relaxing the carrier sensing and virtual sensing mechanisms which can result in a near-far condition. A contender may start transmitting during its neighbor's reception since it does not defer as it would if it were virtual > sensing. Even though it uses a different code, the contender may interfere with the ongoing reception on account of its relative proximity to that node. > > John > > #LI ZHIFEI# wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > I think your question is: why CDMA is not used in ad hoc networks? I also try to figure out the reasons. > > I have the following reasons: > > (1) since ad hoc network is fully distributed, how to make the code orthogonal, and how to make the sender be aware of the code it should use before transmitting? > > (2) again, due to the distributed nature, how to do the power control to cope with the inteference which is ensential for cdma system? > > > > However, the above difficulties do not mean that we should not try to apply CDMA into ad hoc networks. In fact, there is a paper talking about CDMA in ad hoc networks > > in mobihoc 2003. The author is also on this list, and maybe he can give us his understanding. > > > > Also, it seems that in the literature about packet radio networks ( ad hoc networks developed for military use during 1970s), they normally use CDMA for security reason (i.e., jamming as you have mentioned). However, now there are very few papers talking about CDMA in ad hoc networks. Reasearch is really a little bit strange :). > > > > Best regards > > Li zhifei > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: manet-admin@ietf.org [mailto:manet-admin@ietf.org]On Behalf Of Ioannis C. Avramopoulos > > Sent: dissabte, 22 / novembre / 2003 12:33 > > To: manet@ietf.org > > Subject: [manet] MAC layer > > > > Dear fellows, > > > > I have a question on the MAC layer used in ad hoc networks. > > > > In 802.11 nodes share the medium, i.e. they use the same > > frequency hopping pattern or chip sequence. Had nodes used > > orthogonal hopping patterns, spectrum utilization would > > significantly increase and, furthermore, the impact of > > malicious nodes with respect to jamming would be severely > > mitigated. > > > > I am interested in the reasons that schemes of the latter > > type are not considered in the ad hoc community. I would > > appreciate it if you could point me to any papers discussing > > such issues. > > > > Kind regards, > > Yannis > > > > _______________________________________________ > > manet mailing list > > manet@ietf.org > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet > > > > _______________________________________________ > > manet mailing list > > manet@ietf.org > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 25 09:23:28 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA18516 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 09:23:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOe5v-00031j-AH for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 09:23:12 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAPENBN9011634 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 09:23:11 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOe5v-00031Z-6h for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 09:23:11 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA18486 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 09:22:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOe5t-0005gS-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 09:23:09 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOe5t-0005gP-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 09:23:09 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOe5l-00030T-UP; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 09:23:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOe4o-0002zt-Gr for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 09:22:03 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA18473 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 09:21:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOe4m-0005g6-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 09:22:00 -0500 Received: from concorde.inria.fr ([192.93.2.39]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOe4l-0005fu-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 09:22:00 -0500 Received: from zephyrin (byzantium.inria.fr [128.93.17.6]) by concorde.inria.fr (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id hAPELP103587; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 15:21:25 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <024a01c3b35e$45229d60$1f175d80@inria.fr> From: "Philippe Jacquet" To: "Richard Ogier" Cc: "MANET" References: <3FBC12F3.2010808@spri.levels.unisa.edu.au> <00ab01c3af68$6baa7a60$1f175d80@inria.fr> <3FBE3F54.9000602@erg.sri.com> Subject: Re: [manet] Question regarding Mobility Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 15:13:13 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Richard, My mistake, you are right. I was considering the case where the node reaches its way point in a constant time. With a constant speed, zero pause time, the density is your result: C (1-x)*x in dimension one. To be forgiven I tried to compute the formula for the density in two dimensions. Not really fun. For x>y and (1-x)>y it should be proportional to j(x,y)+j(1-x,y) with a normalizing factor, with j(x,y)=(1-x)*y*(2+log(x/y)-log((1-x)/(1-y))). For the other cases for (x,y) one makes use of symmetries and finally: density(x,y)=C*(j(max(x,y),min(x,y))+j(max(1-x,y),min(1-x,y))) I made the integration over all angle of the product of the two distances of the point (x,y) to the border of the square within a given angle. I used Maple. It needs to be cross checked. . The plot looks like a very eroded pyramid: null density on the border and top on the square center. The result should be the same when the speed is randomly selected on finite distribution. Best regards, Philipe ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Ogier To: Philippe Jacquet Cc: MANET Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 5:37 PM Subject: Re: [manet] Question regarding Mobility > Philippe Jacquet wrote: > > >Yes, Peter, the distribution changes if you introduce mobility and it > >depends on the mobility model. Take the random way point model where each > >node has a distinct a random destination point selected uniformly in a > >square, and each node moves to this destination at constant speed. In this > >case, the stationary density at point (x,y) (assuming a 1x1 square) is > >*( x* log x+(1-x)*log(1-x))*(y*log y +(1-y)*log(1-y)) which differs from > >uniform density (which is equal to 1 at any point in the 1x1 square). > > > >Philippe > > > Philippe, > > Your result implies that you can consider the x and y directions > independently. I don't think this is the case, because the speed > in the x direction depends on the (x,y) direction of movement. > I did some calculations, and I think your result assumes that > the time to go from one random point to the next random point > is constant (thus, if the distance between the 2 points is > greater, the speed must be greater). > > Just for fun I tried to derive the steady state distribution in one > dimension for a unit interval [0,1] and got the following result > (assuming constant speed and zero pause time): > > C * x*(1-x) (C is a normalization constant) > > The x*(1-x) term is simply the probability that the point x > lies between two random numbers uniformly distributed in [0,1]. > I ran a simulation on the unit interval [0,1] which confirms this result. > In particular, the probability that the node is near x = 0.25 > is 0.75 times the probability that the node is near x = 0.50. > > Unfortunately, this result cannot be extended to 2 dimensions by > taking the product of this term for the x and y directions, because > the x and y components of the node speed are not independent. > > Richard > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: Peter Pham > >To: MANET > >Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 2:03 AM > >Subject: [manet] Question regarding Mobility > > > > > >>Hi all > >>I am interested in modelling ad hoc networks. In the stationary scenario > >>(nodes do not move), I can assume that the mobile nodes are distributed > >>randomly according to Poisson distribution (many assumed so). However, > >>is this assumption still valid under the mobility ? > >>Can anyone give me some advice ? > >> > >>Peter Pham > >> > >> > >> > >>_______________________________________________ > >>manet mailing list > >>manet@ietf.org > >>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet > >> > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >manet mailing list > >manet@ietf.org > >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet > > > > _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 25 09:35:37 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA19048 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 09:35:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOeHf-0004Bw-MO for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 09:35:20 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAPEZJTT016106 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 09:35:19 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOeHf-0004Bh-Io for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 09:35:19 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA19004 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 09:35:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOeHd-0005tZ-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 09:35:17 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOeHd-0005tV-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 09:35:17 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOeHP-00042P-VN; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 09:35:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOeHL-00041N-4S for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 09:34:59 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA18990 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 09:34:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOeHJ-0005tA-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 09:34:57 -0500 Received: from concorde.inria.fr ([192.93.2.39]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOeHI-0005sq-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 09:34:56 -0500 Received: from zephyrin (byzantium.inria.fr [128.93.17.6]) by concorde.inria.fr (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id hAPEXt105056; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 15:33:55 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <025a01c3b35f$f8d85ce0$1f175d80@inria.fr> From: "Philippe Jacquet" To: "John Mullen" , "'Richard Ogier'" Cc: "'MANET'" References: <000001c3b2a1$e6f74770$67f57b80@IEngr.ad.nmsu.edu> Subject: Re: [manet] Question regarding Mobility Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 15:25:26 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John, Amir Qayyum, developped a simulator model which use the billard model. It was called movinet. This may be good to model people moving on an exhibition field. The way point model is better for modeling players on a soccer field;-) An interesting model is when the map is a torus: nodes disappearing on one end reappear on the other end. This would really put the route control under stress ! To be more realistic nodes should change identity when reappearing, therefore simulating an open network. Philippe ----- Original Message ----- From: John Mullen To: 'Richard Ogier' Cc: 'MANET' Sent: Monday, November 24, 2003 4:44 PM Subject: RE: [manet] Question regarding Mobility > Hi Richard, > > Well, we can argue mobility models, but in the end, it is how well they > reflect node behavior in a real situation that matters. The "choose a > location and move to it" model is attractive because that is how people > move around. The "bounce off the boundary" model is not so attractive > because people don't usually move this way. People will choose > different models because they are thinking of different contexts. > > However, the mobility model may not be that important. Because of > shadowing and fading, received signals can easily vary by a factor of > 100 to 1 from their expected values and will tend to do so as a function > of the rate at which the environment is changing. (Not just the one > node's speed, by that of all other objects and nodes in the vicinity.) > As a result, it may be the node's speed, together with data rate, packet > length, transmission frequency, etc. that are the greater factors and > the differences among many of the various mobility models may just be a > moot point. > > John Mullen > > _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 25 10:16:24 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA21881 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 10:16:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOevB-0007Ji-7h for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 10:16:09 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAPFG9br028120 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 10:16:09 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOevA-0007JT-W2 for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 10:16:09 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA21807 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 10:15:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOev8-0006Wo-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 10:16:06 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOev8-0006Wl-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 10:16:06 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOev4-0007I4-9N; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 10:16:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOeuY-0007G8-Pa for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 10:15:30 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA21713 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 10:15:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOeuW-0006Vf-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 10:15:28 -0500 Received: from mail.atl.external.lmco.com ([192.35.37.50] helo=enterprise.atl.lmco.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOeuW-0006Uy-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 10:15:28 -0500 Received: from atl.lmco.com (sextant [166.17.244.88]) by enterprise.atl.lmco.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CFB26C1D07 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 10:14:57 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3FC371F1.6000100@atl.lmco.com> Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 10:14:57 -0500 From: Rick McClain Organization: Advanced Technology Laboratories User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030319 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: manet@ietf.org Subject: Re: [manet] MAC layer References: <3D565922795545468AE3E3DA2881BEA901F85C02@mail01.student.main.ntu.edu.sg> In-Reply-To: <3D565922795545468AE3E3DA2881BEA901F85C02@mail01.student.main.ntu.edu.sg> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit At the risk of continuing an off-topic discussion, I just had to ask: Why is it that there is not more attention given to the use of Frequency Hopping (FH-CDMA) as a better Spread Spectrum alternative for MANET (compared to DS-CDMA)? Isn't it true that it will not suffer from the near-far problem as DS-CDMA? The near-far problem boils down to the fact that the processing gain can't overcome the large dynamic range in received powers due to 1/d^4 propagation law. But in FH-CDMA, the processing gain is acheived by lowering the probability of frequency collisions, and seems to be independent of the relative signal powers at the receiver. Are there other considerations that I am missing? -- Rick McClain Lockheed Martin Advanced Technology Laboratories 3 Executive Campus | email: rmcclain@atl.lmco.com Cherry Hill, NJ 08002 | Phone: 856-792-9771 _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 25 10:29:39 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA22736 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 10:29:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOf7z-0000gw-Ly for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 10:29:24 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAPFTNli002658 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 10:29:23 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOf7z-0000gi-8k for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 10:29:23 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA22682 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 10:29:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOf7w-0006uX-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 10:29:20 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOf7w-0006uU-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 10:29:20 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOf7d-0000ZM-LU; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 10:29:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOf7V-0000Yo-Kd for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 10:28:53 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA22664 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 10:28:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOf7T-0006u4-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 10:28:51 -0500 Received: from nestor.nmsu.edu ([128.123.34.146] helo=mail.nmsu.edu) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOf7S-0006u1-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 10:28:50 -0500 Received: from PCMullen2 (pc-mullen-2.NMSU.Edu [128.123.245.103]) by mail.nmsu.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBD34201E; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 08:28:49 -0700 (MST) From: "John Mullen" To: "'John Stine'" Cc: Subject: RE: [manet] MAC layer Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 08:28:50 -0700 Message-ID: <000301c3b368$d3d18440$67f57b80@IEngr.ad.nmsu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <3FC263FC.E1D9DAC5@mitre.org> Importance: Normal Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi John, If I'm reading you right, your scheme would require all receivers to monitor all channels (codes). I'm probably missing some details here. John Mullen -----Original Message----- From: manet-admin@ietf.org [mailto:manet-admin@ietf.org] On Behalf Of John Stine Sent: Monday, November 24, 2003 1:03 PM To: John Mullen Cc: manet@ietf.org Subject: Re: [manet] MAC layer John, The complexity of code assignment depends on your assignment scheme. If using a receiver directed coding scheme, assignment can be trivial. Given n codes choose one none of your two hop neighbors are using and broadcast it to your neighbors. If there are not enough codes, randomly select one on a periodic basis and broadcast it to your neighbors. If you have a code but another node moves in range of you using the same code, choose a new code using one of the techniques above. Even when a node has a neighbor that uses the same code, it will usually be rare that contenders will be sending a packet to different destinations that use the same code. In an access scheme that I have been working on, this conflict occurred <0.5% of the contentions in a congested degree 10 network using 10 codes. Note that in this network codes were reused 4 times on average in a two-hop range. John John Mullen wrote: > Hi, > > I think the answer is simpler than that. For CDMA to work, someone > has to decide which channel each user should use. This is managed by > the base station in a cellular system, but in a MANET, could be a big > headache. An exception to this could be MANETs associated with > specific organizations, such as the military, police, EMT, etc., in > which channel assignments could be made and managed via some network > plan. In general, however, it would just be too unwieldy to manage. > > John Mullen > > -----Original Message----- > From: manet-admin@ietf.org [mailto:manet-admin@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > Manfredi, Albert E > Sent: Monday, November 24, 2003 7:48 AM > To: Ioannis C. Avramopoulos; manet@ietf.org > Subject: RE: [manet] MAC layer > > Hi Guys, > > I think Yannis is asking something different. > > CDMA, exactly as implemented in 2G and 3G cellular networks, is of > course not used in IEEE 802.11. For one thing, IEEE 802.11 is not a > circuit-based technique. But the fundamentals of the scheme, i.e. use > of direct sequence spread spectrum, are indeed used in IEEE 802.11b. > > I think what Yannis was asking is why aren't individual 802.11 LANs > differentiated by the spreading sequence used in creating chips out of > bits, as done in CDMA cellular phones. Instead of differentiating > purely on the basis of the carrier frequency. > > You don't use perfectly orthogonal codes in CDMA, as that would > require synchronized transmissions, impossible to achieve when mobile > hosts move about. But that doesn't stop 2G and 3G from working. What > happens is, as more and more users share the same frequncy band, the > noise level for each user increases, until the noise overwhelms the > channel. So you have a soft ceiling on number of users that can share > a frequncy band, unlike TDMA where the limit is hard. > > I don't know why 802.11 doesn't use differnt spreading sequences as > well as different frequency bands to differentiate LANs. One reason > might be to simplify the design. Another might be that allowing > multiple spreading sequences in the same frequency band will increase > the noise level and reduce performance in umpredictable ways. > > Bert > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: #LI ZHIFEI# [mailto:zhifeili@pmail.ntu.edu.sg] > > Sent: Monday, November 24, 2003 12:13 AM > > To: Ioannis C. Avramopoulos; manet@ietf.org > > Subject: RE: [manet] MAC layer > > > > > > Hi, > > > > I think your question is: why CDMA is not used in ad hoc networks? I > > also try to figure out the reasons. I have the following reasons: > > (1) since ad hoc network is fully distributed, how to make > > the code orthogonal, and how to make the sender be aware of > > the code it should use before transmitting? > > (2) again, due to the distributed nature, how to do the power > > control to cope with the inteference which is ensential for > > cdma system? > > > > However, the above difficulties do not mean that we should not try > > to apply CDMA into ad hoc networks. In fact, there is a paper > > talking about CDMA in ad hoc networks in mobihoc 2003. The author is > > also on this list, and maybe he can give us his understanding. > > > > Also, it seems that in the literature about packet radio networks ( > > ad hoc networks developed for military use during 1970s), they > > normally use CDMA for security reason (i.e., jamming as you have > > mentioned). However, now there are very few papers talking about > > CDMA in ad hoc networks. Reasearch is really a little bit strange > > :). > > > > > > Best regards > > Li zhifei > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: manet-admin@ietf.org [mailto:manet-admin@ietf.org]On Behalf Of > > Ioannis C. Avramopoulos > > Sent: dissabte, 22 / novembre / 2003 12:33 > > To: manet@ietf.org > > Subject: [manet] MAC layer > > > > Dear fellows, > > > > I have a question on the MAC layer used in ad hoc networks. > > > > In 802.11 nodes share the medium, i.e. they use the same frequency > > hopping pattern or chip sequence. Had nodes used orthogonal hopping > > patterns, spectrum utilization would significantly increase and, > > furthermore, the impact of malicious nodes with respect to jamming > > would be severely mitigated. > > > > I am interested in the reasons that schemes of the latter type are > > not > > > considered in the ad hoc community. I would appreciate it if you > > could > > > point me to any papers discussing such issues. > > > > Kind regards, > > Yannis > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > manet mailing list > > manet@ietf.org > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet > > > > _______________________________________________ > > manet mailing list > > manet@ietf.org > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet > > > > _______________________________________________ > manet mailing list > manet@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet > > _______________________________________________ > manet mailing list > manet@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 25 10:41:53 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA23652 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 10:41:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOfJq-0002El-1H for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 10:41:38 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAPFfbtr008593 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 10:41:37 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOfJp-0002EW-Ni for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 10:41:37 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA23611 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 10:41:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOfJn-00079C-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 10:41:35 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOfJm-00078Q-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 10:41:34 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOfIK-0001w7-6F; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 10:40:04 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOfHp-0001vO-2c for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 10:39:33 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA23519 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 10:39:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOfHj-00076d-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 10:39:27 -0500 Received: from s2.itd.nrl.navy.mil ([132.250.83.3]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOfHj-00075n-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 10:39:27 -0500 Received: from smtp.itd.nrl.navy.mil (smtp.itd.nrl.navy.mil [132.250.86.3]) by s2.itd.nrl.navy.mil (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.8) with SMTP id hAPFbqMw025052; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 10:38:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from SEXTANT.itd.nrl.navy.mil ([132.250.92.22]) by smtp.itd.nrl.navy.mil (SAVSMTP 3.1.2.35) with SMTP id M2003112510375907839 ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 10:37:59 -0500 Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.2.20031125102426.027a2528@pop.itd.nrl.navy.mil> X-Sender: macker@pop.itd.nrl.navy.mil (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 10:38:12 -0500 To: Rick McClain , manet@ietf.org From: Joe Macker Subject: Re: [manet] MAC layer In-Reply-To: <3FC371F1.6000100@atl.lmco.com> References: <3D565922795545468AE3E3DA2881BEA901F85C02@mail01.student.main.ntu.edu.sg> <3FC371F1.6000100@atl.lmco.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , At 10:14 AM 11/25/2003, Rick McClain wrote: >At the risk of continuing an off-topic discussion, I just had to >ask: There are MANET FH-SS radio products available now (e.g., Novaroam). In case you didn't know about them. >Why is it that there is not more attention given to the use of >Frequency Hopping (FH-CDMA) as a better Spread Spectrum alternative >for MANET (compared to DS-CDMA)? Isn't it true that it will not suffer >from the near-far problem as DS-CDMA? The near-far problem boils down >to the fact that the processing gain can't overcome the large dynamic >range in received powers due to 1/d^4 propagation law. But in >FH-CDMA, the processing gain is acheived by lowering the probability >of frequency collisions, and seems to be independent of the relative >signal powers at the receiver. > >Are there other considerations that I am missing? FH approaches can improve interference and multipath issues, but there are other tradeoffs. There is no "one-size-fits-all". I think the MANET community for a large part is and should be receptive to multiple lower layer technologies. >-- >Rick McClain >Lockheed Martin Advanced Technology Laboratories >3 Executive Campus | email: rmcclain@atl.lmco.com >Cherry Hill, NJ 08002 | Phone: 856-792-9771 > > >_______________________________________________ >manet mailing list >manet@ietf.org >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 25 11:23:12 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA25232 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 11:23:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOfxn-00053Y-M3 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 11:22:56 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAPGMtdW019434 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 11:22:55 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOfxn-00053N-G8 for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 11:22:55 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA25214 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 11:22:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOfxm-0000IN-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 11:22:54 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOfxm-0000IK-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 11:22:54 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOfwv-0004nS-KF; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 11:22:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOfwT-0004jx-8L for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 11:21:33 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA25163 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 11:21:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOfwS-0000H1-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 11:21:32 -0500 Received: from blv-smtpout-01.boeing.com ([130.76.32.69]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOfwR-0000Gx-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 11:21:31 -0500 Received: from stl-av-01.boeing.com ([192.76.190.6]) by blv-smtpout-01.boeing.com (8.9.2.MG.10092003/8.8.5-M2) with ESMTP id IAA16367; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 08:13:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from blv-hub-01.boeing.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by stl-av-01.boeing.com (8.9.3/8.9.2/MBS-AV-02) with ESMTP id KAA11260; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 10:13:56 -0600 (CST) Received: from xch-nebh-01.ne.nos.boeing.com (xch-nebh-01.ne.nos.boeing.com [128.225.80.200]) by blv-hub-01.boeing.com (8.11.3/8.11.3/MBS-LDAP-01) with ESMTP id hAPGCfq12690; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 08:12:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from XCH-NE-02.ne.nos.boeing.com ([128.225.80.202]) by xch-nebh-01.ne.nos.boeing.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6662); Tue, 25 Nov 2003 11:12:45 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [manet] MAC layer Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 11:12:45 -0500 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [manet] MAC layer Thread-Index: AcOzDJKkv9WmP8taSGCF8dEixuwm9wAWNEng From: "Manfredi, Albert E" To: "Chi-Hsiang Yeh" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Nov 2003 16:12:45.0785 (UTC) FILETIME=[F6614490:01C3B36E] Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > This is not true. IS-95 and cdma2000 both use Walsh codes for forward > link, and W-CDMA uses OVSF for downlink. Both Walsh codes and OVSF are > (perfectly) orthogonal codes. This made me curious, because I clearly remembered that perfectly = orthogonal spreading codes were actually not optimal. So I looked back. = You're right, it wasn't in cdma2000, IS-95, or WCDMA. I was remembering the Jin Lu doctoral thesis Source-Channel Coding and = Modulation for Wireless Image Transmissions, Rice University ECE Dept, = May 1999. "A primary issue in CDMA system design is to reduce multiple access = interference (MAI) by designing spreading sequences with low = cross-correlation properties. The offset autocorrelations of these = waveforms must also be low to ensure accurate acquisition and tracking = and to achieve multipath diversity. It is generally believed that one = cannot achieve best performance in both objectives in asynchronous = systems." He goes on in Chapter 5 to study different optimal techniques in = different types of fading channels. Bert > -----Original Message----- > From: Chi-Hsiang Yeh [mailto:chi-hsiang.yeh@ece.queensu.ca] > Sent: Monday, November 24, 2003 11:28 PM > To: Manfredi, Albert E; 'Ioannis C. Avramopoulos'; manet@ietf.org; > zhifeili@pmail.ntu.edu.sg > Subject: RE: [manet] MAC layer >=20 >=20 > > You don't use perfectly orthogonal codes in CDMA, as that would > require synchronized transmissions, impossible to achieve when mobile > hosts move about. But that doesn't stop 2G and 3G from working.=20 >=20 > This is not true. IS-95 and cdma2000 both use Walsh codes for forward > link, and W-CDMA uses OVSF for downlink. Both Walsh codes and OVSF are > (perfectly) orthogonal codes. >=20 > For cellular networks, mobility is not the issue as far as=20 > orthogonality > is concerned, but multipath is. For ad hoc networks, orthogonality is > not possible due to different propagation delays between the desired > reception and the signals from other nearby nodes (especially=20 > from very > close nodes). >=20 > Chihsiang _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 25 11:29:26 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA25427 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 11:29:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOg3o-0005IC-Dz for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 11:29:10 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAPGT8mr020344 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 11:29:08 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOg3o-0005I3-9h for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 11:29:08 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA25407 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 11:28:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOg3n-0000Ng-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 11:29:07 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOg3m-0000Nd-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 11:29:06 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOg3i-0005Gr-Oq; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 11:29:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOg3T-0005GS-K5 for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 11:28:48 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA25402 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 11:28:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOg3S-0000Na-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 11:28:46 -0500 Received: from dahlia.noc.ucla.edu ([169.232.46.11]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOg3R-0000NS-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 11:28:46 -0500 Received: from cs.ucla.edu (ts49-20.dialup.bol.ucla.edu [169.232.231.177]) by dahlia.noc.ucla.edu (8.12.8p2/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hAPGSgG9007831; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 08:28:43 -0800 Message-ID: <3FC38445.7050802@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 08:33:09 -0800 From: Mineo Takai User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; WinNT4.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, ja, th MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Frank Li CC: #LI ZHIFEI# , manet@ietf.org Subject: Re: [manet] Simulating 802.11b and g References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Frank, No, PMD_CS and PMD_ED do not correspond to CST and RXT in my paper. CCA returns busy if the radio successfully received a signal preamble whose power is more than or equal to PMD_CS. If it did not receive a signal preamble, the threshold is raised by 20 dB (PMD_ED) due to difficulty (or instability) of detecting energy on the channel without synchronization. So, PMD_CS and PMD_ED together correspond to CST. We are making our 802.11 model more detailed by replacing CST with these two thresholds. Thanks, Mineo Frank Li wrote: > Hi Zhifei, > > >>However, for the standard itself, the condition PMD_CS < PMD_ED should be true, at least >>for IEEE 802.11a where the PMD_ED is 20 DB greater than PMD_CS. > > > Are you sure that PMD_ED is 20 dB greater than PMD_CS? Is the difference between PMD_CS and PMD_ED the same for all datarates? In the paper posted to the same discussion by Mineo Takai last week, the two thresholds are set as CST = - 78 dBm and RXT = - 64 dBm for WaveLan card. But maybe they don't correspond to PMD_CS and PMD_ED? Any further comments here, Mineo? > > > >>I think the receiver-sensitivity is used to calculate the transmission range, while the CCA >sensitivity (or CS threshold) is used to calculate the sensing range. > > > No, I think receiver-sensivity (or CS threshold in ns2) should be used to calculate the sensing range, another threshold (PMD_ED?) which is greater than receiver-sensivity, should be used to calculate the tansmission range. > > List below are the sensing ranges for outdoor environment I calculated based on Agere Wireless LAN World PC Card (Extended) specification. Here Pt=15 dBm , receiver-sensitivity and transmission ranges are directly from the specification, and I used two-ray model > with Gt=Gr=1, ht=hr=1.5, L=1 to obtain the sensing ranges. > > Datarate 11 Mbps 5.5 Mbps 2 Mbps 1 Mbps > > Transmission range 160 m 270 m 400 m 550 m > > Receiver sensitivity -82 dBm -87 dBm -91 dBm -94 dBm > > sensing range 399 m 532 m 670 m 796 m > > > Any comments are welcome. > > Frank > > _______________________________________________ > manet mailing list > manet@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 25 11:35:33 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA25763 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 11:35:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOg9k-00061b-7X for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 11:35:17 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAPGZGjM023153 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 11:35:16 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOg9j-00061M-UA for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 11:35:15 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA25734 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 11:35:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOg9i-0000WU-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 11:35:14 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOg9i-0000WR-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 11:35:14 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOg9X-0005uE-TM; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 11:35:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOg9D-0005st-4j for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 11:34:43 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA25714 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 11:34:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOg9C-0000W1-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 11:34:42 -0500 Received: from nestor.nmsu.edu ([128.123.34.146] helo=mail.nmsu.edu) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOg9B-0000Vy-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 11:34:41 -0500 Received: from PCMullen2 (pc-mullen-2.NMSU.Edu [128.123.245.103]) by mail.nmsu.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AE26201E; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 09:34:40 -0700 (MST) From: "John Mullen" To: "'Joe Macker'" , Subject: RE: [manet] MAC layer Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 09:34:40 -0700 Message-ID: <000501c3b372$06096af0$67f57b80@IEngr.ad.nmsu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.2.20031124185740.027828c0@pop.itd.nrl.navy.mil> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Joe, That's what we figure here, too. At this point, we're looking for the card with a S/N or power monitoring port more to validate our stochastic propagation models, but expect we can use this capability later in other ways. If I find something I'll drop a note. John Mullen -----Original Message----- From: manet-admin@ietf.org [mailto:manet-admin@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Joe Macker Sent: Monday, November 24, 2003 5:05 PM To: John Mullen; manet@ietf.org Subject: RE: [manet] MAC layer At 06:03 PM 11/24/2003, John Mullen wrote: >Hi Joe, > >I figured you would agree. > >:-) > >Technology is wonderful, when it works. I suppose one problem in this >working group is trying to come up with a MANET protocol that works, >not only in the variety of situations that exist today, but also in >those likely to exist in the near future. True... >BTW, we are looking for some "cheap off-the-shelf digital radio" that >we can use over a distance of a few hundred meters. The only catch is >we are looking for devices that we can connect to a computer and that >will allow us to monitor the received power and/or S/N ratio. Any >suggestions? We are looking for something similar... ;-) While some selected drivers, cards, and other wireless devices allow some level of this .. things could be improved. If you are going to do something with the information metric provided at a routing layer or neighbor discovery/management layer its also important to know how it was measured and potentially filtered or not. IMHO, some general improvements here would be welcome. -joe _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 25 12:10:39 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA27556 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 12:10:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOghj-0001Ml-8i for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 12:10:24 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAPHANcq005245 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 12:10:23 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOghj-0001MW-2E for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 12:10:23 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA27525 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 12:10:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOghh-0001Cj-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 12:10:21 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOghh-0001Cg-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 12:10:21 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOghX-0001F5-9Q; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 12:10:11 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOghC-0001DJ-Bf for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 12:09:50 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA27491 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 12:09:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOgh9-0001CA-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 12:09:47 -0500 Received: from imap.ncat.edu ([152.8.25.5]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOgh8-0001By-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 12:09:46 -0500 Received: from ipcv3 (ipcv3.elen.ncat.edu [152.8.113.156]) by imap.ncat.edu (Switch-2.2.8/Switch-2.2.4) with ESMTP id hAPH9Ze25194 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 12:09:35 -0500 (EST) From: "Justin" To: Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 12:09:47 -0500 Message-ID: <000501c3b376$edbdaf10$9c710898@ipcv3> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01C3B34D.04E7A710" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Subject: [manet] Glomosim question Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C3B34D.04E7A710 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, I am researching in the area of wireless sensor networks. I have an ad hoc hardware Development Kit that I can use to gather data from various sensors. Inside of Glomosim, is there a way that I can inject this real raw data that has been collected from a network into the simulator? Then analyze how system (e.g. Execution time using various routing and Mac layer techniques). Or is there no way to simulate this using Glomosim? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Have a good day, Justin ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C3B34D.04E7A710 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hello, I am researching in the area of wireless = sensor networks.  I have an ad hoc hardware Development Kit that I can use = to gather data from various sensors.  Inside of Glomosim, is there a = way that I can inject this real raw data that has been collected from a network = into the simulator?  Then analyze how system (e.g. Execution time using = various routing and Mac layer techniques).  Or is there no way to simulate = this using Glomosim?  Any suggestions would be greatly = appreciated.

 

Have a good day,

 

Justin

 

------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C3B34D.04E7A710-- _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 25 12:19:29 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA28054 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 12:19:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOgqH-00022h-5k for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 12:19:14 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAPHJDgL007852 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 12:19:13 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOgqG-00022O-MT for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 12:19:12 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA28042 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 12:18:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOgqE-0001QC-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 12:19:10 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOgqE-0001Q9-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 12:19:10 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOgq5-0001vT-3g; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 12:19:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOgpN-0001um-CP for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 12:18:17 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA28034 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 12:18:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOgpL-0001Pg-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 12:18:15 -0500 Received: from smtp1.bae.co.uk ([20.138.254.61]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOgpL-0001PG-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 12:18:15 -0500 Received: from ngbaux (ngbaux.msd.bae.co.uk [141.245.68.234]) by smtp1.bae.co.uk (Switch-2.2.8/Switch-2.2.8) with ESMTP id hAPHHgF00039 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 17:17:42 GMT Received: from bsrsmtp02.ng.bae.co.uk ([141.245.68.242]) by ngbaux.net.bae.co.uk (PMDF V5.2-33 #44998) with SMTP id <0HOX00CFQ407T4@ngbaux.net.bae.co.uk> for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 17:16:55 +0000 (GMT) Received: from glkms0002.GREENLNK.NET ([10.15.184.2]) by 141.245.68.242 with InterScan Messaging Security Suite for SMTP; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 17:17:36 +0000 Received: from glkms0008.GREENLNK.NET ([10.15.184.8]) by glkms0002.GREENLNK.NET with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5329); Tue, 25 Nov 2003 17:17:39 +0000 Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 17:17:38 +0000 From: "Dearlove, Chris (UK)" Subject: RE: [manet] Question regarding Mobility To: Richard Ogier , Philippe Jacquet Cc: MANET Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6375.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Thread-Topic: [manet] Question regarding Mobility Thread-Index: AcOzdl60t9rgwIi/SrenvVIQF1+XDQAAB4NQ content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Nov 2003 17:17:39.0039 (UTC) FILETIME=[06F0AEF0:01C3B378] Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > Someone asked me about a proof that the random-walk billiards=20 > model results > in uniformly distributed node positions. (This is the model=20 > in which a node > moves in a random direction for T seconds, bouncing off boundaries > like a billiards ball, and choosing a new random direction=20 > after T seconds.) > I think this is fairly intuitive, by considering what happens if the=20 > node instead > goes straight through the boundary into an equivalent region=20 > adjacent to > the original region. But is this result well known? Can=20 > anyone point > to a reference for this? We have been using this model and whilst I also haven't rigorously proved it, I also was happy with the equivalency argument. The equivalency argument of course requires only minimal symmetry of the random walk process (axes parallel with the rectangular - square not necessary - bounded region). A published result would be good to dot the i's and cross the t's however. Practically - with the distribution you note - the model seems to work. Whilst we haven't done full statistical analysis, it has the consequences that were the reason we adopted it in the first place - results as speed tends to zero are consistent with the actual static case. For random waypoint (with a positive lower bound on speed so we don't have the tendency to zero speed problem) this is not true because of a tendency to be in the centre of the region. ******************************************************************** This email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient please delete it from your system and notify the sender. You should not copy it or use it for any purpose nor disclose or distribute its contents to any other person. ******************************************************************** _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 25 13:09:28 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA00008 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 13:09:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOhcd-0004z7-4J for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 13:09:13 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAPI9Bk3019155 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 13:09:11 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOhcc-0004ys-Qn for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 13:09:10 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA29992 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 13:08:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOhca-0002Dy-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 13:09:08 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOhca-0002Dv-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 13:09:08 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOhcT-0004xk-Qe; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 13:09:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOhc5-0004wv-9b for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 13:08:37 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA29969 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 13:08:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOhc3-0002DR-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 13:08:35 -0500 Received: from smtp-mclean-x.mitre.org ([192.80.55.71] helo=smtp-mclean.mitre.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOhc2-0002DN-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 13:08:34 -0500 Received: from smtp-mclean.mitre.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp-mclean.mitre.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id hAPI8YL06416 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 13:08:34 -0500 Received: from MAILHUB1 (mailhub1.mitre.org [129.83.20.31]) by smtp-mclean.mitre.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id hAPI8Yl06365; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 13:08:34 -0500 Received: from m29103-pc.mitre.org (128.29.55.48) by mailhub1.mitre.org with SMTP id 5081684; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 13:08:30 -0500 Message-ID: <3FC39A9D.85CCC273@mitre.org> Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 13:08:29 -0500 From: John Stine Organization: The MITRE Corporation X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en]C-20020130M (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: John Mullen CC: manet@ietf.org Subject: Re: [manet] MAC layer References: <000301c3b368$d3d18440$67f57b80@IEngr.ad.nmsu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John, No, a receiver would only have two channels to choose from, a broadcast channel and its chosen receiver directed channel. Without going into too many details of my work, lets just say I am using a synchronous access protocol and contention is resolved by a tournament. At the end of the tournament, all nodes are aware of whether the tournament winner will be sending a broadcast packet or a peer-to-peer packet. These nodes simply go to the appropriate channel. If the upcoming packet is peer-to-peer, all nodes will listen on their different receiver directed channels. The contention winner will transmit the packet on the destination's receiver directed channel. If a broadcast packet, all nodes listen on the broadcast channel and the contention winner uses that channel. The tournament creates a distribution of contention winners in an ad hoc network that are physically separated from each other but well packed. Not all can exchange packets simultaneously on a common channel. The advantage of channelization is that it increases the number that can. John John Mullen wrote: > Hi John, > > If I'm reading you right, your scheme would require all receivers to > monitor all channels (codes). I'm probably missing some details here. > > John Mullen > > -----Original Message----- > From: manet-admin@ietf.org [mailto:manet-admin@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > John Stine > Sent: Monday, November 24, 2003 1:03 PM > To: John Mullen > Cc: manet@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [manet] MAC layer > > John, > > The complexity of code assignment depends on your assignment scheme. > If using a receiver directed coding scheme, assignment can be trivial. > Given n codes choose one none of your two hop neighbors are using and > broadcast it to your neighbors. If there are not enough codes, randomly > select one on a periodic basis and broadcast it to your neighbors. If > you have a code but another node moves in range of you using the same > code, choose a new code using one of the techniques above. Even when a > node has a neighbor that uses the same code, it will usually be rare > that contenders will be sending a packet to different destinations that > use the same code. In an access scheme that I have been working on, > this conflict occurred <0.5% of the contentions in a congested degree 10 > network using 10 codes. Note that in this network codes were reused 4 > times on average in a two-hop range. > > John > > John Mullen wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > I think the answer is simpler than that. For CDMA to work, someone > > has to decide which channel each user should use. This is managed by > > the base station in a cellular system, but in a MANET, could be a big > > headache. An exception to this could be MANETs associated with > > specific organizations, such as the military, police, EMT, etc., in > > which channel assignments could be made and managed via some network > > plan. In general, however, it would just be too unwieldy to manage. > > > > John Mullen > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: manet-admin@ietf.org [mailto:manet-admin@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > > Manfredi, Albert E > > Sent: Monday, November 24, 2003 7:48 AM > > To: Ioannis C. Avramopoulos; manet@ietf.org > > Subject: RE: [manet] MAC layer > > > > Hi Guys, > > > > I think Yannis is asking something different. > > > > CDMA, exactly as implemented in 2G and 3G cellular networks, is of > > course not used in IEEE 802.11. For one thing, IEEE 802.11 is not a > > circuit-based technique. But the fundamentals of the scheme, i.e. use > > of direct sequence spread spectrum, are indeed used in IEEE 802.11b. > > > > I think what Yannis was asking is why aren't individual 802.11 LANs > > differentiated by the spreading sequence used in creating chips out of > > > bits, as done in CDMA cellular phones. Instead of differentiating > > purely on the basis of the carrier frequency. > > > > You don't use perfectly orthogonal codes in CDMA, as that would > > require synchronized transmissions, impossible to achieve when mobile > > hosts move about. But that doesn't stop 2G and 3G from working. What > > happens is, as more and more users share the same frequncy band, the > > noise level for each user increases, until the noise overwhelms the > > channel. So you have a soft ceiling on number of users that can share > > a frequncy band, unlike TDMA where the limit is hard. > > > > I don't know why 802.11 doesn't use differnt spreading sequences as > > well as different frequency bands to differentiate LANs. One reason > > might be to simplify the design. Another might be that allowing > > multiple spreading sequences in the same frequency band will increase > > the noise level and reduce performance in umpredictable ways. > > > > Bert > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: #LI ZHIFEI# [mailto:zhifeili@pmail.ntu.edu.sg] > > > Sent: Monday, November 24, 2003 12:13 AM > > > To: Ioannis C. Avramopoulos; manet@ietf.org > > > Subject: RE: [manet] MAC layer > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > I think your question is: why CDMA is not used in ad hoc networks? I > > > > also try to figure out the reasons. I have the following reasons: > > > (1) since ad hoc network is fully distributed, how to make > > > the code orthogonal, and how to make the sender be aware of > > > the code it should use before transmitting? > > > (2) again, due to the distributed nature, how to do the power > > > control to cope with the inteference which is ensential for > > > cdma system? > > > > > > However, the above difficulties do not mean that we should not try > > > to apply CDMA into ad hoc networks. In fact, there is a paper > > > talking about CDMA in ad hoc networks in mobihoc 2003. The author is > > > > also on this list, and maybe he can give us his understanding. > > > > > > Also, it seems that in the literature about packet radio networks ( > > > ad hoc networks developed for military use during 1970s), they > > > normally use CDMA for security reason (i.e., jamming as you have > > > mentioned). However, now there are very few papers talking about > > > CDMA in ad hoc networks. Reasearch is really a little bit strange > > > :). > > > > > > > > > Best regards > > > Li zhifei > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: manet-admin@ietf.org [mailto:manet-admin@ietf.org]On Behalf Of > > > > Ioannis C. Avramopoulos > > > Sent: dissabte, 22 / novembre / 2003 12:33 > > > To: manet@ietf.org > > > Subject: [manet] MAC layer > > > > > > Dear fellows, > > > > > > I have a question on the MAC layer used in ad hoc networks. > > > > > > In 802.11 nodes share the medium, i.e. they use the same frequency > > > hopping pattern or chip sequence. Had nodes used orthogonal hopping > > > patterns, spectrum utilization would significantly increase and, > > > furthermore, the impact of malicious nodes with respect to jamming > > > would be severely mitigated. > > > > > > I am interested in the reasons that schemes of the latter type are > > > not > > > > > considered in the ad hoc community. I would appreciate it if you > > > could > > > > > point me to any papers discussing such issues. > > > > > > Kind regards, > > > Yannis > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > manet mailing list > > > manet@ietf.org > > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > manet mailing list > > > manet@ietf.org > > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > manet mailing list > > manet@ietf.org > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet > > > > _______________________________________________ > > manet mailing list > > manet@ietf.org > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet > > _______________________________________________ > manet mailing list > manet@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 25 13:38:30 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA01194 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 13:38:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOi4i-0006gc-8J for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 13:38:13 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAPIcC7Y025623 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 13:38:12 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOi4g-0006eA-U6 for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 13:38:10 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA01180 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 13:37:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOi4e-0002bH-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 13:38:08 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOi4e-0002bE-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 13:38:08 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOi4Z-0006ae-DL; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 13:38:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOi48-0006Un-39 for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 13:37:36 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA01157 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 13:37:21 -0500 (EST) From: ab36@njit.edu Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOi45-0002ax-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 13:37:33 -0500 Received: from mail-shield2.njit.edu ([128.235.251.172]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOi45-0002ai-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 13:37:33 -0500 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by mail-shield2.njit.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) id hAPIb1k20524 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 13:37:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from nodnsquery(128.235.251.173) by mail-shield2.njit.edu via csmap (V4.1) id srcAAAUtayfO; Tue, 25 Nov 03 13:37:01 -0500 Received: from webmail.njit.edu (webmail.njit.edu [128.235.251.121]) by mail-gw5.njit.edu (8.12.10/8.12.4) with ESMTP id hAPIb0Un017073 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 13:37:00 -0500 (EST) Received: (from apache@localhost) by webmail.njit.edu (8.11.7+Sun/8.11.7) id hAPIQ7H20534 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 13:26:07 -0500 (EST) To: manet@ietf.org Message-ID: <1069784767.3fc39ebf557ca@webmail.njit.edu> Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 13:26:07 -0500 (EST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: IMP/PHP IMAP webmail program 2.2.4 X-Originating-IP: 219.65.85.27 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [manet] Unsubscribe ME Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit please unsubscribe me _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 25 14:15:32 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA02954 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 14:15:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOieZ-0000q1-KL for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 14:15:16 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAPJFFbY003215 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 14:15:15 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOieZ-0000pm-G1 for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 14:15:15 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA02932 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 14:15:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOieW-0003ID-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 14:15:12 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOieW-0003I8-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 14:15:12 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOieM-0000nt-Jd; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 14:15:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOidQ-0000ma-VN for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 14:14:04 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA02870 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 14:13:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOidO-0003Gt-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 14:14:02 -0500 Received: from concorde.inria.fr ([192.93.2.39]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOidN-0003Gj-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 14:14:01 -0500 Received: from zephyrin (byzantium.inria.fr [128.93.17.6]) by concorde.inria.fr (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id hAPJDO104244; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 20:13:25 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <001e01c3b388$1b16a960$1f175d80@inria.fr> From: "Philippe Jacquet" To: "Richard Ogier" Cc: "MANET" References: <3FBC12F3.2010808@spri.levels.unisa.edu.au> <00ab01c3af68$6baa7a60$1f175d80@inria.fr> <3FBE3F54.9000602@erg.sri.com> <024a01c3b35e$45229d60$1f175d80@inria.fr> <3FC38B35.9070004@erg.sri.com> Subject: Re: [manet] Question regarding Mobility Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 20:12:43 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There is likely a proof for the invariance of the Poisson distribution under the billard model. There is a general result that tells that on an infinite plane, an initial Poisson distribution of nodes remains Poisson at any time given simple conditions on node motions, i.e. move are indendent of nodes and position. I think it is easily extendable to the billard model, one just have to clone the square and cover the whole the plane by mirror effect, so that bouncing is just equivalent to going straight through the border between two mirror images. And then we distribute nodes indifferently in the original square and in its mirror images as if it was a Poisson distribution on the whole plane. After letting the node moving, we apply the general result. Notice that the result remains valid even when the motions are complicated (pause times, distance travelled, changes of direction, curves, etc), given they are independent of nodes and locations. Random change of direction at the border may not satisfy this rule. Philippe ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Ogier To: Philippe Jacquet Cc: MANET Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2003 6:02 PM Subject: Re: [manet] Question regarding Mobility > Philippe, > > Thanks for computing the formula for the probability density of node > position > for random waypoint. I also started to compute the formula for 2 > dimensions, > but quit when I saw how complicated it is. In actual simulations, to > start out > with the steady state density, it might be easiest to just generate two > random > points in the square and then choose a random point uniformly > distributed on the > line connecting the two points. > > Someone asked me about a proof that the random-walk billiards model results > in uniformly distributed node positions. (This is the model in which a node > moves in a random direction for T seconds, bouncing off boundaries > like a billiards ball, and choosing a new random direction after T seconds.) > I think this is fairly intuitive, by considering what happens if the > node instead > goes straight through the boundary into an equivalent region adjacent to > the original region. But is this result well known? Can anyone point > to a reference for this? > > Richard > > > > Philippe Jacquet wrote: > > >Richard, > > > >My mistake, you are right. I was considering the case where the node reaches > >its way point in a constant time. With a constant speed, zero pause time, > >the density is your result: C (1-x)*x in dimension one. To be forgiven I > >tried to compute the formula for the density in two dimensions. Not really > >fun. For x>y and (1-x)>y it should be proportional to j(x,y)+j(1-x,y) with a > >normalizing factor, with > >j(x,y)=(1-x)*y*(2+log(x/y)-log((1-x)/(1-y))). > > > >For the other cases for (x,y) one makes use of symmetries and finally: > >density(x,y)=C*(j(max(x,y),min(x,y))+j(max(1-x,y),min(1-x,y))) > > > >I made the integration over all angle of the product of the two distances of > >the point (x,y) to the border of the square within a given angle. I used > >Maple. It needs to be cross checked. > >. > > > >The plot looks like a very eroded pyramid: null density on the border and > >top on the square center. The result should be the same when the speed is > >randomly selected on finite distribution. > > > >Best regards, > >Philipe > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: Richard Ogier > >To: Philippe Jacquet > >Cc: MANET > >Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 5:37 PM > >Subject: Re: [manet] Question regarding Mobility > > > > > >>Philippe Jacquet wrote: > >> > >>>Yes, Peter, the distribution changes if you introduce mobility and it > >>>depends on the mobility model. Take the random way point model where each > >>>node has a distinct a random destination point selected uniformly in a > >>>square, and each node moves to this destination at constant speed. In > >>> > >this > > > >>>case, the stationary density at point (x,y) (assuming a 1x1 square) is > >>>*( x* log x+(1-x)*log(1-x))*(y*log y +(1-y)*log(1-y)) which differs from > >>>uniform density (which is equal to 1 at any point in the 1x1 square). > >>> > >>>Philippe > >>> > >>Philippe, > >> > >>Your result implies that you can consider the x and y directions > >>independently. I don't think this is the case, because the speed > >>in the x direction depends on the (x,y) direction of movement. > >>I did some calculations, and I think your result assumes that > >>the time to go from one random point to the next random point > >>is constant (thus, if the distance between the 2 points is > >>greater, the speed must be greater). > >> > >>Just for fun I tried to derive the steady state distribution in one > >>dimension for a unit interval [0,1] and got the following result > >>(assuming constant speed and zero pause time): > >> > >> C * x*(1-x) (C is a normalization constant) > >> > >>The x*(1-x) term is simply the probability that the point x > >>lies between two random numbers uniformly distributed in [0,1]. > >>I ran a simulation on the unit interval [0,1] which confirms this result. > >>In particular, the probability that the node is near x = 0.25 > >>is 0.75 times the probability that the node is near x = 0.50. > >> > >>Unfortunately, this result cannot be extended to 2 dimensions by > >>taking the product of this term for the x and y directions, because > >>the x and y components of the node speed are not independent. > >> > >>Richard > >> > >>>----- Original Message ----- > >>>From: Peter Pham > >>>To: MANET > >>>Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 2:03 AM > >>>Subject: [manet] Question regarding Mobility > >>> > >>> > >>>>Hi all > >>>>I am interested in modelling ad hoc networks. In the stationary scenario > >>>>(nodes do not move), I can assume that the mobile nodes are distributed > >>>>randomly according to Poisson distribution (many assumed so). However, > >>>>is this assumption still valid under the mobility ? > >>>>Can anyone give me some advice ? > >>>> > >>>>Peter Pham > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>_______________________________________________ > >>>>manet mailing list > >>>>manet@ietf.org > >>>>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet > >>>> > >>> > >>>_______________________________________________ > >>>manet mailing list > >>>manet@ietf.org > >>>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet > >>> > >> > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >manet mailing list > >manet@ietf.org > >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet > > > > _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 25 15:12:29 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA06564 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 15:12:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOjXb-0004st-WE for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 15:12:11 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAPKC7Y0018769 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 15:12:07 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOjXb-0004se-SX for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 15:12:07 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA06506 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 15:11:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOjXa-0004bf-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 15:12:06 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOjXa-0004bc-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 15:12:06 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOjXU-0004ob-7s; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 15:12:00 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOjWy-0004my-5a for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 15:11:28 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA06443 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 15:11:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOjWv-0004b1-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 15:11:25 -0500 Received: from che.ojctech.com ([209.254.133.74]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOjWs-0004al-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 15:11:23 -0500 Received: from che.ojctech.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by che.ojctech.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hAPKBD5o003611; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 14:11:13 -0600 Received: (from dyoung@localhost) by che.ojctech.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAPKB7u8003609; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 14:11:07 -0600 Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 14:11:07 -0600 From: David Young To: John Mullen Cc: "'Joe Macker'" , manet@ietf.org Subject: Re: [manet] MAC layer Message-ID: <20031125201107.GC32391@che.ojctech.com> Mail-Followup-To: John Mullen , 'Joe Macker' , manet@ietf.org References: <6.0.0.22.2.20031124185740.027828c0@pop.itd.nrl.navy.mil> <000501c3b372$06096af0$67f57b80@IEngr.ad.nmsu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <000501c3b372$06096af0$67f57b80@IEngr.ad.nmsu.edu> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , On Tue, Nov 25, 2003 at 09:34:40AM -0700, John Mullen wrote: > Hi Joe, > > That's what we figure here, too. At this point, we're looking for the > card with a S/N or power monitoring port more to validate our stochastic > propagation models, but expect we can use this capability later in other > ways. If I find something I'll drop a note. John, Virtually all 802.11 radios tell the RSSI for each Rx packet. Some tell the noise level, also. Are you looking for something different? Just for example, Lucent and Intersil Prism-based radios tell signal & noise in ‾dB. I think that Cisco Aironet cards do, also. Finally, the Atheros-based radios are most versatile of all the 802.11a/b/g radios, but AFAIK they only tell Rx signal strength---no noise figure. I don't know about Linux, but in NetBSD & FreeBSD you can get at the signal strength information using the Berkeley Packet Filter. Both those BSDs provide the information through an extensible, hardware-independent radio header. I have patches for tcpdump that make it interpret the header. For example, monitoring an Atheros radio: % sudo ./tcpdump -ne -y ieee802_11_radio -i ath0 listening on ath0, link-type IEEE802_11_RADIO (802.11 plus radio information header), capture size 96 bytes 14:00:58.351473 11.0 Mb/s 2442 MHz (0x00a0) 52dB signal antenna 1 BSSID:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff DA:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff SA:00:05:5d:da:b0:a9 Probe Request (cuw) [1.0* 2.0* 5.5* 11.0* Mbit] Monitoring a Prism radio: % sudo ./tcpdump -ne -y ieee802_11_radio -i wi0 listening on wi0, link-type IEEE802_11_RADIO (802.11 plus radio information header), capture size 96 bytes 14:02:20.331138 11.0 Mb/s 2422 MHz BSSID:00:05:5d:89:6a:33 SA:00:05:5d:da:ac:a8 DA:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff Data IV:3aaaa Pad 0 KeyID 0 14:02:20.334116 11.0 Mb/s 2422 MHz -79dB signal -100dB noise DA:00:05:5d:da:ac:a8 BSSID:00:05:5d:89:6a:33 SA:00:05:5d:89:6a:33 Data IV:3aaaa Pad 0 KeyID 0 Dave -- David Young OJC Technologies dyoung@ojctech.com Urbana, IL * (217) 278-3933 _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 25 15:25:42 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA07622 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 15:25:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOjkS-0005tj-Og for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 15:25:25 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAPKPOln022670 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 15:25:24 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOjkS-0005tZ-5G for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 15:25:24 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA07504 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 15:25:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOjkQ-0004wG-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 15:25:22 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOjkQ-0004wD-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 15:25:22 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOjk8-0005mK-HL; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 15:25:04 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOjk2-0005lN-65 for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 15:24:58 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA07435 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 15:24:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOjk0-0004vb-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 15:24:56 -0500 Received: from grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.120.46]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOjk0-0004vU-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 15:24:56 -0500 Received: from user-38ldvkm.dialup.mindspring.com ([209.86.254.150] helo=erg.sri.com) by grebe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AOjhL-0001QQ-00; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 12:22:11 -0800 Message-ID: <3FC3B9F0.7060600@erg.sri.com> Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 12:22:08 -0800 From: Richard Ogier User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011128 Netscape6/6.2.1 (emach0202) X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: John Mullen CC: "'Philippe Jacquet'" , "'MANET'" Subject: Re: [manet] Question regarding Mobility References: <000001c3b38e$33907920$67f57b80@IEngr.ad.nmsu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John, The proof that Philippe gave is essentially what I was thinking of when I mentioned the equivalence of going straight through the boundary to an equivalent region. I understood him to mean that, since the number of nodes is constant, the resulting Poisson distribution in the original square (after moving each node from its position in a cloned square to the corresponding position in the original square) becomes a uniform distribution because of the well-known result that you mentioned. Richard John Mullen wrote: >Hi Philippe, > >The (two-dimensional) Poisson assumes that, for a very small area within >a region, the probability of a node being in an area is proportional to >the area plus something that becomes insignificant as the area become >extremely small. If you use the Poisson on a bounded region, the number >of nodes within that region will be a random variable. If you apply a >Poisson distribution to a region when the number of nodes within the >region is known in advance, the result is a uniform distribution. > >If the number of nodes is fixed, then eventually, the node density will >drop to zero on the infinite plane. The Poisson keeps the local density >constant, so any piece of the plain will appear to be distributed >uniformly, but the expected number of nodes on the plane will be >infinite, since the expected value of the Poisson is the expected node >density times the node area. > >So, I'm not quite sure what you are saying. Are you saying the number >of nodes in the finite region is a random variable (Poisson) or that the >number of nodes is fixed, but the positions are random (Uniform)? > > > >John Mullen > > >-----Original Message----- >From: manet-admin@ietf.org [mailto:manet-admin@ietf.org] On Behalf Of >Philippe Jacquet >Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2003 12:13 PM >To: Richard Ogier >Cc: MANET >Subject: Re: [manet] Question regarding Mobility > > >There is likely a proof for the invariance of the Poisson distribution >under the billard model. > >There is a general result that tells that on an infinite plane, an >initial Poisson distribution of nodes remains Poisson at any time given >simple conditions on node motions, i.e. move are indendent of nodes and >position. > >I think it is easily extendable to the billard model, one just have to >clone the square and cover the whole the plane by mirror effect, so that >bouncing is just equivalent to going straight through the border between >two mirror images. And then we distribute nodes indifferently in the >original square and in its mirror images as if it was a Poisson >distribution on the whole plane. After letting the node moving, we apply >the general result. > >Notice that the result remains valid even when the motions are >complicated (pause times, distance travelled, changes of direction, >curves, etc), given they are independent of nodes and locations. Random >change of direction at the border may not satisfy this rule. > >Philippe >----- Original Message ----- >From: Richard Ogier >To: Philippe Jacquet >Cc: MANET >Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2003 6:02 PM >Subject: Re: [manet] Question regarding Mobility > > >>Philippe, >> >>Thanks for computing the formula for the probability density of node >>position for random waypoint. I also started to compute the formula >>for 2 dimensions, >>but quit when I saw how complicated it is. In actual simulations, to >>start out >>with the steady state density, it might be easiest to just generate >> >two > >>random >>points in the square and then choose a random point uniformly >>distributed on the >>line connecting the two points. >> >>Someone asked me about a proof that the random-walk billiards model >> >results > >>in uniformly distributed node positions. (This is the model in which >>a >> >node > >>moves in a random direction for T seconds, bouncing off boundaries >>like a billiards ball, and choosing a new random direction after T >> >seconds.) > >>I think this is fairly intuitive, by considering what happens if the >>node instead goes straight through the boundary into an equivalent >>region adjacent to >>the original region. But is this result well known? Can anyone >> >point > >>to a reference for this? >> >>Richard >> >> >> >>Philippe Jacquet wrote: >> >>>Richard, >>> >>>My mistake, you are right. I was considering the case where the node >>> >reaches > >>>its way point in a constant time. With a constant speed, zero pause >>>time, the density is your result: C (1-x)*x in dimension one. To be >>>forgiven I tried to compute the formula for the density in two >>>dimensions. Not >>> >really > >>>fun. For x>y and (1-x)>y it should be proportional to j(x,y)+j(1-x,y) >>> >with a > >>>normalizing factor, with >>>j(x,y)=(1-x)*y*(2+log(x/y)-log((1-x)/(1-y))). >>> >>>For the other cases for (x,y) one makes use of symmetries and >>>finally: >>>density(x,y)=C*(j(max(x,y),min(x,y))+j(max(1-x,y),min(1-x,y))) >>> >>>I made the integration over all angle of the product of the two >>>distances >>> >of > >>>the point (x,y) to the border of the square within a given angle. I >>>used Maple. It needs to be cross checked. . >>> >>>The plot looks like a very eroded pyramid: null density on the border >>> > >>>and top on the square center. The result should be the same when the >>>speed is randomly selected on finite distribution. >>> >>>Best regards, >>>Philipe >>> >>>----- Original Message ----- >>>From: Richard Ogier >>>To: Philippe Jacquet >>>Cc: MANET >>>Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 5:37 PM >>>Subject: Re: [manet] Question regarding Mobility >>> >>> >>>>Philippe Jacquet wrote: >>>> >>>>>Yes, Peter, the distribution changes if you introduce mobility and >>>>>it depends on the mobility model. Take the random way point model >>>>>where >>>>> >each > >>>>>node has a distinct a random destination point selected uniformly >>>>>in a square, and each node moves to this destination at constant >>>>>speed. In >>>>> >>>this >>> >>>>>case, the stationary density at point (x,y) (assuming a 1x1 square) >>>>> > >>>>>is *( x* log x+(1-x)*log(1-x))*(y*log y +(1-y)*log(1-y)) which >>>>>differs >>>>> >from > >>>>>uniform density (which is equal to 1 at any point in the 1x1 >>>>>square). >>>>> >>>>>Philippe >>>>> >>>>Philippe, >>>> >>>>Your result implies that you can consider the x and y directions >>>>independently. I don't think this is the case, because the speed in >>>>the x direction depends on the (x,y) direction of movement. I did >>>>some calculations, and I think your result assumes that the time to >>>>go from one random point to the next random point is constant (thus, >>>> > >>>>if the distance between the 2 points is greater, the speed must be >>>>greater). >>>> >>>>Just for fun I tried to derive the steady state distribution in one >>>>dimension for a unit interval [0,1] and got the following result >>>>(assuming constant speed and zero pause time): >>>> >>>> C * x*(1-x) (C is a normalization constant) >>>> >>>>The x*(1-x) term is simply the probability that the point x lies >>>>between two random numbers uniformly distributed in [0,1]. I ran a >>>>simulation on the unit interval [0,1] which confirms this >>>> >result. > >>>>In particular, the probability that the node is near x = 0.25 is >>>>0.75 times the probability that the node is near x = 0.50. >>>> >>>>Unfortunately, this result cannot be extended to 2 dimensions by >>>>taking the product of this term for the x and y directions, because >>>>the x and y components of the node speed are not independent. >>>> >>>>Richard >>>> >>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>From: Peter Pham >>>>>To: MANET >>>>>Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 2:03 AM >>>>>Subject: [manet] Question regarding Mobility >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>Hi all >>>>>>I am interested in modelling ad hoc networks. In the stationary >>>>>> >scenario > >>>>>>(nodes do not move), I can assume that the mobile nodes are >>>>>> >distributed > >>>>>>randomly according to Poisson distribution (many assumed so). >>>>>>However, is this assumption still valid under the mobility ? Can >>>>>>anyone give me some advice ? >>>>>> >>>>>>Peter Pham >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>manet mailing list >>>>>>manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet >>>>>> >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>manet mailing list >>>>>manet@ietf.org >>>>>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet >>>>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>manet mailing list >>>manet@ietf.org >>>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet >>> >> > > >_______________________________________________ >manet mailing list >manet@ietf.org >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet > > >_______________________________________________ >manet mailing list >manet@ietf.org >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet > _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 25 16:42:10 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA12400 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 16:42:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOkwU-0003Mo-LL for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 16:41:54 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAPLfs81012941 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 16:41:54 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOkwU-0003Md-DC for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 16:41:54 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA12380 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 16:41:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOkwR-0007AX-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 16:41:51 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOkwQ-0007AT-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 16:41:51 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOkvg-0003Ec-TD; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 16:41:04 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOkvE-0003Cg-3D for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 16:40:36 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA12285 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 16:40:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOkvC-00079V-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 16:40:34 -0500 Received: from web41213.mail.yahoo.com ([66.218.93.46]) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOkvB-00078p-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 16:40:33 -0500 Message-ID: <20031125214003.95890.qmail@web41213.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [129.110.97.144] by web41213.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 13:40:03 PST Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 13:40:03 -0800 (PST) From: Pallavi Mavinkurve To: manet@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <20031125115801.16170.92018.Mailman@www1.ietf.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-68931311-1069796403=:94149" Subject: [manet] Power consumption questions Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , --0-68931311-1069796403=:94149 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi Manigandan, I believe the computing power consumption that u r taking into account will occur on many levels. the network processing, MAC processing etc. shud we not consider these separately? for sleep or doze mode let us consider that it does not perticiapte in any network operations, but it still would be active on MAC layer? and in active mode, what will be the routing overhead for power? I have these wuestions myself...Has anybody done any specific work regarding this? PM Pallavi Mavinkurve Pallavi.Mavinkurve@student.utdallas.edu "If we are unwilling to be aware of the dark, we cannot see the light" John Cowan --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now --0-68931311-1069796403=:94149 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

Hi Manigandan,

I believe the computing power consumption that u r taking into account will occur on many levels. the network processing, MAC processing etc. shud we not consider these separately? for sleep or doze mode let us consider that it does not perticiapte in any network operations, but it still would be active on MAC layer? and in active mode, what will be the routing overhead for power? I have these wuestions myself...Has anybody done any specific work regarding this?

PM

 



Pallavi Mavinkurve

Pallavi.Mavinkurve@student.utdallas.edu

"If we are unwilling to be aware of the dark, we cannot see the light"

John Cowan

 

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Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now --0-68931311-1069796403=:94149-- _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 25 16:44:32 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA12474 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 16:44:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOkyn-0003i6-3Y for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 16:44:17 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAPLiHfS014262 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 16:44:17 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOkym-0003hx-W1 for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 16:44:17 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA12445 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 16:44:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOkyk-0007Ci-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 16:44:14 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOkyk-0007Cf-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 16:44:14 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOkyX-0003XU-Pa; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 16:44:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOky8-0003Rq-EX for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 16:43:36 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA12424 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 16:43:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOky6-0007Bl-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 16:43:34 -0500 Received: from web41210.mail.yahoo.com ([66.218.93.43]) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOky5-0007BZ-00 for manet@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 16:43:33 -0500 Message-ID: <20031125214302.62047.qmail@web41210.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [129.110.97.144] by web41210.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 13:43:02 PST Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 13:43:02 -0800 (PST) From: Pallavi Mavinkurve To: manet@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <20031125180901.19064.70356.Mailman@www1.ietf.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-915262351-1069796582=:61980" Subject: [manet] Simulating wireless sensor networks Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , --0-915262351-1069796582=:61980 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi, I have a question regarding the simulation of wireless sensor networks. I have a clustering algorithm that I want to simulate for sensor networks. Which would be the best simulator for this case? PM Pallavi Mavinkurve Pallavi.Mavinkurve@student.utdallas.edu "If we are unwilling to be aware of the dark, we cannot see the light" John Cowan --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now --0-915262351-1069796582=:61980 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

Hi,

I have a question regarding the simulation of wireless sensor networks. I have a clustering algorithm that I want to simulate for sensor networks. Which would be the best simulator for this case?

PM



Pallavi Mavinkurve

Pallavi.Mavinkurve@student.utdallas.edu

"If we are unwilling to be aware of the dark, we cannot see the light"

John Cowan

 

Do you Yahoo!?
Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now --0-915262351-1069796582=:61980-- _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Nov 26 01:50:35 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA27841 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 01:50:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOtVB-0004iA-B1 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 01:50:18 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAQ6oH9c018104 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 01:50:17 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOtVB-0004hv-7R for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 01:50:17 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA27823 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 01:50:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOtV7-000062-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 01:50:13 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOtV7-00005z-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 01:50:13 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOtUx-0004gr-IS; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 01:50:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOtUJ-0004gN-AE for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 01:49:23 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA27812 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 01:49:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOtUG-00005l-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 01:49:20 -0500 Received: from violet.noc.ucla.edu ([169.232.47.18]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOtUF-00005i-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 01:49:19 -0500 Received: from cs.ucla.edu (ts12-153.dialup.bol.ucla.edu [169.232.225.100]) by violet.noc.ucla.edu (8.12.8p2/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hAQ6nGpS000723; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 22:49:17 -0800 Message-ID: <3FC44DF5.106@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 22:53:41 -0800 From: Mineo Takai User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; WinNT4.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, ja, th MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bjkwak , Dong Zheng CC: manet@ietf.org Subject: Re: [manet] Question on 802.11DCF References: <3FAED82E.7020007@spri.levels.unisa.edu.au> <006f01c3a723$307df180$e4f02e93@oahu> <3FAF16A8.50205@spri.levels.unisa.edu.au> <1068440681.29000.21.camel@wind1> <3FAFCBFF.586756CE@nist.gov> <1068500529.29000.45.camel@wind1> <3FB0208D.F08AC7B4@nist.gov> In-Reply-To: <3FB0208D.F08AC7B4@nist.gov> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Byung-Jae and Dong, I could not join the discussion in a timely manner even though the GloMoSim code was cited. Now that I had a chance to look into the standard, and can comment on a few issues. >>‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾ >>void Mac802_11CheckForOutgoingPacket(GlomoNode *node, GlomoMac802_11 >>*M802) >>{ >> if >>(!NetworkIpOutputQueueIsEmpty(node,M802->myGlomoMac->interfaceIndex)) >> { >> Mac802_11SetBackoffIfZero(node, M802); >> AttemptToGoIntoWaitForDifsOrEifsState(node, M802); >> } >> else >> { >> assert(M802->BO == 0); >> Mac802_11SetState(node, M802, M802_11_S_IDLE); >> Mac802_11CancelTimer(node, M802); >> } >>} >>‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾‾ >> >>This function is called after a successful ACK has been received. As you >>can see, if there is no packet in the queue, it will simply leave BO >>(the Backoff Timer) as zero. > > I see! But, I believe we have to follow the published STANDARD > if there is a disagreement between the standard and an > implementation. I acknowledge this as a GloMoSim bug, although I think its effect is minimal (at least for many MANET studies in which the network is loaded with a lot of traffic). With this bug, STA may transmit a packet (aCWmin * aSlotTime) sooner than defined in the standard in the worst case (half the time on average). But this happens only when (a) an application somehow requests MAC to send a packet right after MAC sees that the queue is empty, and (b) other STAs do not transmit any packet after DIFS because none of their backoff timers expires on that time slot. If these two conditions are met, fairness among multiple STAs can be incorrectly simulated. Again, it is very difficult to create such conditions though. I (or our students) will fix it and try updating the distribution. Thanks for pointing this out. >>>My understanding is, if a packet arrives, a node checks if the channel >>>has been idle for DIFS, instead of checking if the channel is idle for >>>DIFS after the arrival of the packet. >> >>But does that mean if the channel has been idle for DIFS, it will >>transmit the packet immediately? > > Actually, that is where the standard is very confusing. Yes, it is very confusing, so I took a look at the formal description of MAC operation (Annex C) towards the end of the standard. According to that description, STA waits for DIFS after the arrival of the packet, instead of examining if the channel has been idle for DIFS. Here are several places to look at: "Process Tx_Coordination_sta: sta_tx_idle_2d(10)," on page 345 includes an input symbol "Pdu_Request(fsdu)." This is the request of packet transmission given by the higher layer. If we trace down the flow, STA performs "Backoff(0, 0)" before going to "send_rts" or "send_mpdu" in the next page. Backoff(cw, cnt) is defined in "Process Backoff_Procedure" on pages 356 and 357. If Backoff(cw, cnt) gets called with arguments (0, 0), it exits the process with value -2 if the channel is idle for DIFS since Pdu_Request(fsdu). Let's go back to the flow after Backoff(0, 0). "Process Tx_Coordination_sta: sta_tx_dcf_3d(10)" on page 346 checks the return value of the backoff procedure (bstat). If bstat == -2, it requests PHY to transmit an RTS or MPDU immediately, otherwise it calls Backoff(ccw, -1) in which case a new random backoff value is chosen. (I only have the latest standard "1999 Edition (R2003)" so the page number may be slightly off.) I think no one can follow what I am talking about without the standard handy :-) but I am certain that STA waits for DIFS after receiving the packet from the higher layer. So, the description below needs to be changed slightly: > What I understand is as follows: > > Node A Tx a packet; > Node A receives an ACK; > Node A starts a backoff procedure: > choose random backoff and count down; > If the queue was not empty at the time of reception of ACK > then > Enter normal backoff procedure; > else // Queue was empty > If a packet arrives before the backoff counter expires > Then > Wait until the timer expire; > Tx the packet after DIFS idle time; > else // A packet arrives after the timer expires !!! Wait for DIFS; if channel is idle during the DIFS period !!! then !!! Tx the packet > else > Enter normal backoff procedure; > endif > endif > endif Hope this helps, Mineo _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Nov 26 02:07:46 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA06023 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 02:07:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOtlo-00067U-Fr for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 02:07:29 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAQ77SaV023523 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 02:07:28 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOtln-00067G-K5 for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 02:07:27 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA05473 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 02:07:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOtlj-0000LJ-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 02:07:23 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOtlj-0000LG-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 02:07:23 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOtlR-0005xm-19; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 02:07:05 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOtkk-0005qm-TC for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 02:06:22 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA04397 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 02:06:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOtkh-0000K3-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 02:06:19 -0500 Received: from mbox1.ntu.edu.sg ([155.69.5.171]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOtkg-0000Iw-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 02:06:18 -0500 Received: from mail03.student.main.ntu.edu.sg ([155.69.5.167]) by mbox1.ntu.edu.sg with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5576); Wed, 26 Nov 2003 14:25:07 +0800 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-2022-jp" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.6944.0 Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 14:25:00 +0800 Message-ID: <052033A55521254893A4E2041957E1D05C4502@mail03.student.main.ntu.edu.sg> Thread-Topic: About your knowledge about the intrusive scripts to MANET Thread-Index: AcOz5gShZtI0gjiARXCbjivcxgLvQQ== From: "#LI ZHUOWEI#" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Nov 2003 06:25:07.0207 (UTC) FILETIME=[090AF970:01C3B3E6] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [manet] About your knowledge about the intrusive scripts to MANET Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Everybody, Do you know whether there exist some intrusive scripts (typical designed and utilized in one paper) for MANET? For my work, I want to design the intrusive scenarios, in routing or traffic anomalies, for future use in the security design or for the variety of the traffic for future MANET simulation (I mean, evaluate the performance of one technique in a very malicious environment). Since I worry about the doubling research work, please notify me if you have such intrusive scripts for MANET. Thank you. Regards! Sincerely yours, Li Zhuowei **************************************************************************** ****** Title: Ph.D. candidate ****** Email: zhwei.li@pmail.ntu.edu.sg ****** Home: http://www.cais.ntu.edu.sg/‾zhuowei ****** or http://www.ntu.edu.sg/home5/pg01316106 **************************************************************************** 　 _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Nov 26 02:40:30 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA26213 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 02:40:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOuHP-0000sa-I9 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 02:40:08 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAQ7e4QE003180 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 02:40:04 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOuHJ-0000pD-VM for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 02:40:01 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA26207 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 02:39:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOuHG-0000tm-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 02:39:58 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOuHF-0000tj-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 02:39:57 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOuGQ-0000fu-NC; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 02:39:06 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOuFj-0000bU-Cy for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 02:38:23 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA26064 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 02:38:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOuFf-0000sm-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 02:38:19 -0500 Received: from post5.inre.asu.edu ([129.219.110.120]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOuFf-0000sj-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 02:38:19 -0500 Received: from conversion.post5.inre.asu.edu by asu.edu (PMDF V6.1-1X6 #30769) id <0HOY009017VVIW@asu.edu> for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 00:38:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.asu.edu (smtp.asu.edu [129.219.110.107]) by asu.edu (PMDF V6.1-1X6 #30769) with ESMTP id <0HOY007OW7VVG5@asu.edu>; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 00:38:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from wind1.eas.asu.edu (wind1.eas.asu.edu [149.169.39.143]) by smtp.asu.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10/asu_smtp_relay,nullclient,tcp_wrapped) with ESMTP id hAQ7cIS8003988; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 00:38:18 -0700 (MST) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 00:38:22 -0700 From: Dong Zheng Subject: Re: [manet] Question on 802.11DCF In-reply-to: <3FC44DF5.106@cs.ucla.edu> To: Mineo Takai Cc: bjkwak , manet@ietf.org Message-id: <1069832302.28413.20.camel@wind1> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.0.8 (1.0.8-9.7x.1) Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <3FAED82E.7020007@spri.levels.unisa.edu.au> <006f01c3a723$307df180$e4f02e93@oahu> <3FAF16A8.50205@spri.levels.unisa.edu.au> <1068440681.29000.21.camel@wind1> <3FAFCBFF.586756CE@nist.gov> <1068500529.29000.45.camel@wind1> <3FB0208D.F08AC7B4@nist.gov> <3FC44DF5.106@cs.ucla.edu> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Mineo, Thanks for your comments. > I acknowledge this as a GloMoSim bug, although I think its effect is > minimal (at least for many MANET studies in which the network is loaded > with a lot of traffic). With this bug, STA may transmit a packet (aCWmin > * aSlotTime) sooner than defined in the standard in the worst case (half > the time on average). But this happens only when (a) an application > somehow requests MAC to send a packet right after MAC sees that the > queue is empty, and (b) other STAs do not transmit any packet after DIFS > because none of their backoff timers expires on that time slot. If these > two conditions are met, fairness among multiple STAs can be incorrectly > simulated. Again, it is very difficult to create such conditions though. > Suppose that you have a CBR traffic with inter-arrival time slightly bigger than the transmission time of the packet and other CBR flows have larger interval time, or suppose there is a high traffic load, then this situation should happen more frequently. > I (or our students) will fix it and try updating the distribution. GloMoSim or Qualnet? ;-) Anyway, I have another question which I posted on the mailing list of GloMoSim. I guess the Rayleigh fading implementation has a bug (if you plot the values that it generates for the fading_dB, it is actually Rayleigh distributed, not exponentially distributed), the correct code should be: *fading_dB = 10.0 * log10(-2.0 * RAYLEIGH_VARIANCE * log(pc_erand(seed))); Also RAYLEIGH_VARIANCE should be given a value of 0.5, thus not introducing any energy into the channel. Thanks, -Dong _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Nov 26 03:29:18 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA27266 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 03:29:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOv2j-0003N0-0O for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 03:29:01 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAQ8T0CH012955 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 03:29:00 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOv2i-0003Ms-IJ for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 03:29:00 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA27250 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 03:28:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOv2g-0001Om-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 03:28:58 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOv2f-0001Oj-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 03:28:57 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOv1m-0003EB-5q; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 03:28:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOv11-0003CM-3j for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 03:27:15 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA27164 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 03:27:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOv0y-0001Np-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 03:27:12 -0500 Received: from violet.noc.ucla.edu ([169.232.47.18]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOv0y-0001Nm-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 03:27:12 -0500 Received: from cs.ucla.edu (ts12-153.dialup.bol.ucla.edu [169.232.225.100]) by violet.noc.ucla.edu (8.12.8p2/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hAQ8RApS025741; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 00:27:10 -0800 Message-ID: <3FC464E5.1010102@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 00:31:33 -0800 From: Mineo Takai User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; WinNT4.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, ja, th MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dong Zheng CC: manet@ietf.org Subject: Re: [manet] Question on 802.11DCF References: <3FAED82E.7020007@spri.levels.unisa.edu.au> <006f01c3a723$307df180$e4f02e93@oahu> <3FAF16A8.50205@spri.levels.unisa.edu.au> <1068440681.29000.21.camel@wind1> <3FAFCBFF.586756CE@nist.gov> <1068500529.29000.45.camel@wind1> <3FB0208D.F08AC7B4@nist.gov> <3FC44DF5.106@cs.ucla.edu> <1069832302.28413.20.camel@wind1> In-Reply-To: <1069832302.28413.20.camel@wind1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dong: My comments are in line. Dong Zheng wrote: > >>I acknowledge this as a GloMoSim bug, although I think its effect is >>minimal (at least for many MANET studies in which the network is loaded >>with a lot of traffic). With this bug, STA may transmit a packet (aCWmin >>* aSlotTime) sooner than defined in the standard in the worst case (half >>the time on average). But this happens only when (a) an application >>somehow requests MAC to send a packet right after MAC sees that the >>queue is empty, and (b) other STAs do not transmit any packet after DIFS >>because none of their backoff timers expires on that time slot. If these >>two conditions are met, fairness among multiple STAs can be incorrectly >>simulated. Again, it is very difficult to create such conditions though. >> > > Suppose that you have a CBR traffic with inter-arrival time slightly > bigger than the transmission time of the packet and other CBR flows have > larger interval time, or suppose there is a high traffic load, then this > situation should happen more frequently. Well, sure. If you create a scenario intentionally to expose this bug, it is not difficult. But again, I think typical manet scenarios with xx pps CBR flows would hardly create this situation. Also, I don't know any real application that would generate such traffic patterns. Even if there is one, the delay (jitters) caused by host-NIC communications is more than a few hundred microseconds, so it is hard to hit this spot every time. > Anyway, I have another question which I posted on the mailing list of > GloMoSim. I guess the Rayleigh fading implementation has a bug (if you > plot the values that it generates for the fading_dB, it is actually > Rayleigh distributed, not exponentially distributed), the correct code > should be: > *fading_dB = 10.0 * log10(-2.0 * RAYLEIGH_VARIANCE * > log(pc_erand(seed))); > > Also RAYLEIGH_VARIANCE should be given a value of 0.5, thus not > introducing any energy into the channel. I will look into the model and get back to you in the glomosim mailing list. Please don't post a GloMoSim bug report here to make me respond to defend ;-) It's outside the scope of this mailing list. Mineo _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Nov 26 05:57:39 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA02010 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 05:57:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOxMG-0002gE-Ld for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 05:57:24 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAQAvKvW010298 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 05:57:20 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOxMG-0002g1-HE for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 05:57:20 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA01940 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 05:57:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOxMC-0003Xi-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 05:57:16 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOxMC-0003Xf-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 05:57:16 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOxLy-0002VR-TB; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 05:57:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOxLP-0002UG-6Y for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 05:56:27 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA01904 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 05:56:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOxLL-0003Ws-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 05:56:23 -0500 Received: from concorde.inria.fr ([192.93.2.39]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOxLK-0003WQ-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 05:56:22 -0500 Received: from zephyrin (byzantium.inria.fr [128.93.17.6]) by concorde.inria.fr (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id hAQAtk102866; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 11:55:46 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <008801c3b40b$c086b740$1f175d80@inria.fr> From: "Philippe Jacquet" To: "John Mullen" Cc: "'MANET'" References: <000001c3b38e$33907920$67f57b80@IEngr.ad.nmsu.edu> Subject: Re: [manet] Question regarding Mobility Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 11:55:05 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, John, The Poisson distribution is more than this. It tells that that the number of nodes in area A is independent of the number of nodes in area B, provided that A and B have intersection null (more precisely of measure 0). It is not the case when the number N of nodes in the square is fixed (if you have N nodes in A then there is zero node in B). Therefore there is the question: does the property hold for uniform distribution? The answer is yes and this should be a simple corollary of the result over Poisson, because: 1. The position of a random node is uniform in the square (Poisson result) 2. The positions of nodes are independent (basic hypothesis) Philippe ----- Original Message ----- From: John Mullen To: 'Philippe Jacquet' Cc: 'MANET' Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2003 8:56 PM Subject: RE: [manet] Question regarding Mobility > Hi Philippe, > > The (two-dimensional) Poisson assumes that, for a very small area within > a region, the probability of a node being in an area is proportional to > the area plus something that becomes insignificant as the area become > extremely small. If you use the Poisson on a bounded region, the number > of nodes within that region will be a random variable. If you apply a > Poisson distribution to a region when the number of nodes within the > region is known in advance, the result is a uniform distribution. > > If the number of nodes is fixed, then eventually, the node density will > drop to zero on the infinite plane. The Poisson keeps the local density > constant, so any piece of the plain will appear to be distributed > uniformly, but the expected number of nodes on the plane will be > infinite, since the expected value of the Poisson is the expected node > density times the node area. > > So, I'm not quite sure what you are saying. Are you saying the number > of nodes in the finite region is a random variable (Poisson) or that the > number of nodes is fixed, but the positions are random (Uniform)? > > John Mullen > > > -----Original Message----- > From: manet-admin@ietf.org [mailto:manet-admin@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > Philippe Jacquet > Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2003 12:13 PM > To: Richard Ogier > Cc: MANET > Subject: Re: [manet] Question regarding Mobility > > > There is likely a proof for the invariance of the Poisson distribution > under the billard model. > > There is a general result that tells that on an infinite plane, an > initial Poisson distribution of nodes remains Poisson at any time given > simple conditions on node motions, i.e. move are indendent of nodes and > position. > > I think it is easily extendable to the billard model, one just have to > clone the square and cover the whole the plane by mirror effect, so that > bouncing is just equivalent to going straight through the border between > two mirror images. And then we distribute nodes indifferently in the > original square and in its mirror images as if it was a Poisson > distribution on the whole plane. After letting the node moving, we apply > the general result. > > Notice that the result remains valid even when the motions are > complicated (pause times, distance travelled, changes of direction, > curves, etc), given they are independent of nodes and locations. Random > change of direction at the border may not satisfy this rule. > > Philippe > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Richard Ogier > To: Philippe Jacquet > Cc: MANET > Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2003 6:02 PM > Subject: Re: [manet] Question regarding Mobility > > > > Philippe, > > > > Thanks for computing the formula for the probability density of node > > position for random waypoint. I also started to compute the formula > > for 2 dimensions, > > but quit when I saw how complicated it is. In actual simulations, to > > start out > > with the steady state density, it might be easiest to just generate > two > > random > > points in the square and then choose a random point uniformly > > distributed on the > > line connecting the two points. > > > > Someone asked me about a proof that the random-walk billiards model > results > > in uniformly distributed node positions. (This is the model in which > > a > node > > moves in a random direction for T seconds, bouncing off boundaries > > like a billiards ball, and choosing a new random direction after T > seconds.) > > I think this is fairly intuitive, by considering what happens if the > > node instead goes straight through the boundary into an equivalent > > region adjacent to > > the original region. But is this result well known? Can anyone > point > > to a reference for this? > > > > Richard > > > > > > > > Philippe Jacquet wrote: > > > > >Richard, > > > > > >My mistake, you are right. I was considering the case where the node > reaches > > >its way point in a constant time. With a constant speed, zero pause > > >time, the density is your result: C (1-x)*x in dimension one. To be > > >forgiven I tried to compute the formula for the density in two > > >dimensions. Not > really > > >fun. For x>y and (1-x)>y it should be proportional to j(x,y)+j(1-x,y) > with a > > >normalizing factor, with > > >j(x,y)=(1-x)*y*(2+log(x/y)-log((1-x)/(1-y))). > > > > > >For the other cases for (x,y) one makes use of symmetries and > > >finally: > > >density(x,y)=C*(j(max(x,y),min(x,y))+j(max(1-x,y),min(1-x,y))) > > > > > >I made the integration over all angle of the product of the two > > >distances > of > > >the point (x,y) to the border of the square within a given angle. I > > >used Maple. It needs to be cross checked. . > > > > > >The plot looks like a very eroded pyramid: null density on the border > > > >and top on the square center. The result should be the same when the > > >speed is randomly selected on finite distribution. > > > > > >Best regards, > > >Philipe > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > >From: Richard Ogier > > >To: Philippe Jacquet > > >Cc: MANET > > >Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 5:37 PM > > >Subject: Re: [manet] Question regarding Mobility > > > > > > > > >>Philippe Jacquet wrote: > > >> > > >>>Yes, Peter, the distribution changes if you introduce mobility and > > >>>it depends on the mobility model. Take the random way point model > > >>>where > each > > >>>node has a distinct a random destination point selected uniformly > > >>>in a square, and each node moves to this destination at constant > > >>>speed. In > > >>> > > >this > > > > > >>>case, the stationary density at point (x,y) (assuming a 1x1 square) > > > >>>is *( x* log x+(1-x)*log(1-x))*(y*log y +(1-y)*log(1-y)) which > > >>>differs > from > > >>>uniform density (which is equal to 1 at any point in the 1x1 > > >>>square). > > >>> > > >>>Philippe > > >>> > > >>Philippe, > > >> > > >>Your result implies that you can consider the x and y directions > > >>independently. I don't think this is the case, because the speed in > > >>the x direction depends on the (x,y) direction of movement. I did > > >>some calculations, and I think your result assumes that the time to > > >>go from one random point to the next random point is constant (thus, > > > >>if the distance between the 2 points is greater, the speed must be > > >>greater). > > >> > > >>Just for fun I tried to derive the steady state distribution in one > > >>dimension for a unit interval [0,1] and got the following result > > >>(assuming constant speed and zero pause time): > > >> > > >> C * x*(1-x) (C is a normalization constant) > > >> > > >>The x*(1-x) term is simply the probability that the point x lies > > >>between two random numbers uniformly distributed in [0,1]. I ran a > > >>simulation on the unit interval [0,1] which confirms this > result. > > >>In particular, the probability that the node is near x = 0.25 is > > >>0.75 times the probability that the node is near x = 0.50. > > >> > > >>Unfortunately, this result cannot be extended to 2 dimensions by > > >>taking the product of this term for the x and y directions, because > > >>the x and y components of the node speed are not independent. > > >> > > >>Richard > > >> > > >>>----- Original Message ----- > > >>>From: Peter Pham > > >>>To: MANET > > >>>Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 2:03 AM > > >>>Subject: [manet] Question regarding Mobility > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>>Hi all > > >>>>I am interested in modelling ad hoc networks. In the stationary > scenario > > >>>>(nodes do not move), I can assume that the mobile nodes are > distributed > > >>>>randomly according to Poisson distribution (many assumed so). > > >>>>However, is this assumption still valid under the mobility ? Can > > >>>>anyone give me some advice ? > > >>>> > > >>>>Peter Pham > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>>_______________________________________________ > > >>>>manet mailing list > > >>>>manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet > > >>>> > > >>> > > >>>_______________________________________________ > > >>>manet mailing list > > >>>manet@ietf.org > > >>>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet > > >>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > > >manet mailing list > > >manet@ietf.org > > >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > manet mailing list > manet@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet > _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Nov 26 07:17:33 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA03878 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 07:17:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOybb-0005nU-BX for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 07:17:15 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAQCHFXj022278 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 07:17:15 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOybb-0005nF-8A for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 07:17:15 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA03866 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 07:17:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOyba-0004U6-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 07:17:14 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOyba-0004U3-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 07:17:14 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOybO-0005ly-Rf; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 07:17:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOyaa-0005dZ-PQ for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 07:16:12 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA03841 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 07:16:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOyaa-0004Qt-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 07:16:12 -0500 Received: from mailswitch2.city.ac.uk ([138.40.12.5]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOyaZ-0004Qq-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 07:16:11 -0500 Received: from [138.40.12.12] (helo=mailswitch) by mailswitch2 with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #8) id 1AOyc2-0000Ck-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 12:17:42 +0000 Received: from eeipc197.city.ac.uk ([138.40.163.23] helo=CITY) by mailswitch with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #5) id 1AOyaX-0005V5-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 12:16:09 +0000 From: "Ehsan Hamadani" To: Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 12:14:52 -0000 Message-ID: <000001c3b416$e9140770$17a3288a@CITY> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C3B416.E9140770" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 Subject: [manet] IP or Mobile-IP Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C3B416.E9140770 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all I want to know what ad-hoc nodes use in their network layer for sending and receiving message. Do they use IP address or Mobile IP address to communicate with each other?? I personally go for IP address but still I am not sure!! Regards Ehsan ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C3B416.E9140770 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi all

I want to know what ad-hoc nodes use in their network = layer for sending and receiving message. Do they use IP address or Mobile IP = address to communicate with each other?? I personally go for IP address but still I = am not sure!!

 

Regards

Ehsan

------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C3B416.E9140770-- _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Nov 26 10:17:32 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA11344 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 10:17:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AP1Po-0001NI-F4 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 10:17:17 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAQFHGHJ005278 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 10:17:16 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AP1Po-0001N3-Ab for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 10:17:16 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA11253 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 10:17:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AP1Pm-0006zm-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 10:17:14 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AP1Pl-0006zj-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 10:17:13 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AP1PZ-0001Fw-2e; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 10:17:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AP1On-0001Bh-IV for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 10:16:13 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA11095 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 10:15:58 -0500 (EST) From: jomullen@nmsu.edu Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AP1Ol-0006x2-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 10:16:11 -0500 Received: from cheech.nmsu.edu ([128.123.34.14]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AP1Ok-0006wz-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 10:16:10 -0500 Received: (from nobody@localhost) by cheech.nmsu.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) id hAQFG8R19606; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 08:16:08 -0700 Received: from 216.234.194.176 ( [216.234.194.176]) as user jomullen@chong.nmsu.edu by webmail.nmsu.edu with HTTP; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 08:16:08 -0700 Message-ID: <1069859768.3fc4c3b84b826@webmail.nmsu.edu> Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 08:16:08 -0700 To: Philippe Jacquet Cc: "'MANET'" Subject: Re: [manet] Question regarding Mobility References: <000001c3b38e$33907920$67f57b80@IEngr.ad.nmsu.edu> <008801c3b40b$c086b740$1f175d80@inria.fr> In-Reply-To: <008801c3b40b$c086b740$1f175d80@inria.fr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.0 X-Originating-IP: 216.234.194.176 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Philippe, Yes. I was just lost over the point of reference. I wasn't sure if you were talking about the entire MANET region, for which the number of nodes is fixed, or a sub-region, for which the number of nodes is a random variable. Strictly speaking, the numbers are not independent, if the number in the region of concern is fixed. If you have a MANET consisting of 100 nodes and you know that 40 are in sub-region A, then no more than 60 can be in a non- overlapping sub-region B. We usually dont worry about this because the sub- regions are small, compared to the whole. But, to be precise, if your MANET will exist in a region of fixed size and you say that nodes have a Poisson distribution, then the number of nodes in the MANET will be a random variable. In the mobility models we are speaking of (billards and Random Waypoint) the MANET is assumed to exist within a fixed region and the number of member nodes is assumed to be constant. Thus, the distribution of the nodes within the whole region cannot be Poisson, while that within a small subregion of that MANET could be approximated by a Poisson. On the other hand, if we want the nodes within a fixed MANET region to have a Poisson distribution, we need to use a mobility model in which nodes are free to either leave or join the MANET region, and thereby, the MANET itself. John Mullen Quoting Philippe Jacquet : > Hi, John, > > The Poisson distribution is more than this. It tells that that the number > of > nodes in area A is independent of the number of nodes in area B, provided > that A and B have intersection null (more precisely of measure 0). It is > not > the case when the number N of nodes in the square is fixed (if you have N > nodes in A then there is zero node in B). Therefore there is the question: > does the property hold for uniform distribution? The answer is yes and this > should be a simple corollary of the result over Poisson, because: > > 1. The position of a random node is uniform in the square (Poisson result) > 2. The positions of nodes are independent (basic hypothesis) > > Philippe _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Nov 26 11:30:44 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA16113 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 11:30:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AP2Ya-0006OO-CY for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 11:30:28 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAQGUO7f024572 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 11:30:24 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AP2Ya-0006OF-6E for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 11:30:24 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA16071 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 11:30:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AP2YZ-0000sV-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 11:30:23 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AP2YY-0000sS-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 11:30:22 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AP2YH-0006Fq-K7; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 11:30:05 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AP2Xr-0006Ef-4B for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 11:29:39 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA16032 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 11:29:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AP2Xq-0000rR-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 11:29:38 -0500 Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.120.22]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AP2Xp-0000rN-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 11:29:37 -0500 Received: from sdn-ap-021castocp0506.dialsprint.net ([65.178.81.252] helo=Panoramic) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AP2SR-0003us-00; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 08:24:04 -0800 Message-ID: <003501c3b439$cdc919b0$fc51b241@Panoramic> From: "Richard Ogier" To: "Philippe Jacquet" Cc: "'MANET'" References: <000001c3b38e$33907920$67f57b80@IEngr.ad.nmsu.edu> <008801c3b40b$c086b740$1f175d80@inria.fr> Subject: Re: [manet] Question regarding Mobility Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 08:18:15 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Actually, we only need to consider a single node, and show that it is uniformly distributed in the square. Thus, even though Philippe's explanation is accurate, I don't think it is necessary to talk about a Poisson distribution. Allowing the single node to travel straight through boundaries, we only need to show that it is uniformly distributed in whatever "clone" of the square it happens to be in at any time. I think this follows simply because the node is initially placed uniformly, and its movements are independent of its location. Richard ----- Original Message ----- From: "Philippe Jacquet" To: "John Mullen" Cc: "'MANET'" Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2003 2:55 AM Subject: Re: [manet] Question regarding Mobility > Hi, John, > > The Poisson distribution is more than this. It tells that that the number of > nodes in area A is independent of the number of nodes in area B, provided > that A and B have intersection null (more precisely of measure 0). It is not > the case when the number N of nodes in the square is fixed (if you have N > nodes in A then there is zero node in B). Therefore there is the question: > does the property hold for uniform distribution? The answer is yes and this > should be a simple corollary of the result over Poisson, because: > > 1. The position of a random node is uniform in the square (Poisson result) > 2. The positions of nodes are independent (basic hypothesis) > > Philippe > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: John Mullen > To: 'Philippe Jacquet' > Cc: 'MANET' > Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2003 8:56 PM > Subject: RE: [manet] Question regarding Mobility > > > > Hi Philippe, > > > > The (two-dimensional) Poisson assumes that, for a very small area within > > a region, the probability of a node being in an area is proportional to > > the area plus something that becomes insignificant as the area become > > extremely small. If you use the Poisson on a bounded region, the number > > of nodes within that region will be a random variable. If you apply a > > Poisson distribution to a region when the number of nodes within the > > region is known in advance, the result is a uniform distribution. > > > > If the number of nodes is fixed, then eventually, the node density will > > drop to zero on the infinite plane. The Poisson keeps the local density > > constant, so any piece of the plain will appear to be distributed > > uniformly, but the expected number of nodes on the plane will be > > infinite, since the expected value of the Poisson is the expected node > > density times the node area. > > > > So, I'm not quite sure what you are saying. Are you saying the number > > of nodes in the finite region is a random variable (Poisson) or that the > > number of nodes is fixed, but the positions are random (Uniform)? > > > > John Mullen > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: manet-admin@ietf.org [mailto:manet-admin@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > > Philippe Jacquet > > Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2003 12:13 PM > > To: Richard Ogier > > Cc: MANET > > Subject: Re: [manet] Question regarding Mobility > > > > > > There is likely a proof for the invariance of the Poisson distribution > > under the billard model. > > > > There is a general result that tells that on an infinite plane, an > > initial Poisson distribution of nodes remains Poisson at any time given > > simple conditions on node motions, i.e. move are indendent of nodes and > > position. > > > > I think it is easily extendable to the billard model, one just have to > > clone the square and cover the whole the plane by mirror effect, so that > > bouncing is just equivalent to going straight through the border between > > two mirror images. And then we distribute nodes indifferently in the > > original square and in its mirror images as if it was a Poisson > > distribution on the whole plane. After letting the node moving, we apply > > the general result. > > > > Notice that the result remains valid even when the motions are > > complicated (pause times, distance travelled, changes of direction, > > curves, etc), given they are independent of nodes and locations. Random > > change of direction at the border may not satisfy this rule. > > > > Philippe > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Richard Ogier > > To: Philippe Jacquet > > Cc: MANET > > Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2003 6:02 PM > > Subject: Re: [manet] Question regarding Mobility > > > > > > > Philippe, > > > > > > Thanks for computing the formula for the probability density of node > > > position for random waypoint. I also started to compute the formula > > > for 2 dimensions, > > > but quit when I saw how complicated it is. In actual simulations, to > > > start out > > > with the steady state density, it might be easiest to just generate > > two > > > random > > > points in the square and then choose a random point uniformly > > > distributed on the > > > line connecting the two points. > > > > > > Someone asked me about a proof that the random-walk billiards model > > results > > > in uniformly distributed node positions. (This is the model in which > > > a > > node > > > moves in a random direction for T seconds, bouncing off boundaries > > > like a billiards ball, and choosing a new random direction after T > > seconds.) > > > I think this is fairly intuitive, by considering what happens if the > > > node instead goes straight through the boundary into an equivalent > > > region adjacent to > > > the original region. But is this result well known? Can anyone > > point > > > to a reference for this? > > > > > > Richard > > > > > > > > > > > > Philippe Jacquet wrote: > > > > > > >Richard, > > > > > > > >My mistake, you are right. I was considering the case where the node > > reaches > > > >its way point in a constant time. With a constant speed, zero pause > > > >time, the density is your result: C (1-x)*x in dimension one. To be > > > >forgiven I tried to compute the formula for the density in two > > > >dimensions. Not > > really > > > >fun. For x>y and (1-x)>y it should be proportional to j(x,y)+j(1-x,y) > > with a > > > >normalizing factor, with > > > >j(x,y)=(1-x)*y*(2+log(x/y)-log((1-x)/(1-y))). > > > > > > > >For the other cases for (x,y) one makes use of symmetries and > > > >finally: > > > >density(x,y)=C*(j(max(x,y),min(x,y))+j(max(1-x,y),min(1-x,y))) > > > > > > > >I made the integration over all angle of the product of the two > > > >distances > > of > > > >the point (x,y) to the border of the square within a given angle. I > > > >used Maple. It needs to be cross checked. . > > > > > > > >The plot looks like a very eroded pyramid: null density on the border > > > > > >and top on the square center. The result should be the same when the > > > >speed is randomly selected on finite distribution. > > > > > > > >Best regards, > > > >Philipe > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > > >From: Richard Ogier > > > >To: Philippe Jacquet > > > >Cc: MANET > > > >Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 5:37 PM > > > >Subject: Re: [manet] Question regarding Mobility > > > > > > > > > > > >>Philippe Jacquet wrote: > > > >> > > > >>>Yes, Peter, the distribution changes if you introduce mobility and > > > >>>it depends on the mobility model. Take the random way point model > > > >>>where > > each > > > >>>node has a distinct a random destination point selected uniformly > > > >>>in a square, and each node moves to this destination at constant > > > >>>speed. In > > > >>> > > > >this > > > > > > > >>>case, the stationary density at point (x,y) (assuming a 1x1 square) > > > > > >>>is *( x* log x+(1-x)*log(1-x))*(y*log y +(1-y)*log(1-y)) which > > > >>>differs > > from > > > >>>uniform density (which is equal to 1 at any point in the 1x1 > > > >>>square). > > > >>> > > > >>>Philippe > > > >>> > > > >>Philippe, > > > >> > > > >>Your result implies that you can consider the x and y directions > > > >>independently. I don't think this is the case, because the speed in > > > >>the x direction depends on the (x,y) direction of movement. I did > > > >>some calculations, and I think your result assumes that the time to > > > >>go from one random point to the next random point is constant (thus, > > > > > >>if the distance between the 2 points is greater, the speed must be > > > >>greater). > > > >> > > > >>Just for fun I tried to derive the steady state distribution in one > > > >>dimension for a unit interval [0,1] and got the following result > > > >>(assuming constant speed and zero pause time): > > > >> > > > >> C * x*(1-x) (C is a normalization constant) > > > >> > > > >>The x*(1-x) term is simply the probability that the point x lies > > > >>between two random numbers uniformly distributed in [0,1]. I ran a > > > >>simulation on the unit interval [0,1] which confirms this > > result. > > > >>In particular, the probability that the node is near x = 0.25 is > > > >>0.75 times the probability that the node is near x = 0.50. > > > >> > > > >>Unfortunately, this result cannot be extended to 2 dimensions by > > > >>taking the product of this term for the x and y directions, because > > > >>the x and y components of the node speed are not independent. > > > >> > > > >>Richard > > > >> > > > >>>----- Original Message ----- > > > >>>From: Peter Pham > > > >>>To: MANET > > > >>>Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 2:03 AM > > > >>>Subject: [manet] Question regarding Mobility > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>>>Hi all > > > >>>>I am interested in modelling ad hoc networks. In the stationary > > scenario > > > >>>>(nodes do not move), I can assume that the mobile nodes are > > distributed > > > >>>>randomly according to Poisson distribution (many assumed so). > > > >>>>However, is this assumption still valid under the mobility ? Can > > > >>>>anyone give me some advice ? > > > >>>> > > > >>>>Peter Pham > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>>_______________________________________________ > > > >>>>manet mailing list > > > >>>>manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet > > > >>>> > > > >>> > > > >>>_______________________________________________ > > > >>>manet mailing list > > > >>>manet@ietf.org > > > >>>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet > > > >>> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > > > >manet mailing list > > > >manet@ietf.org > > > >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > manet mailing list > > manet@ietf.org > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet > > > > > _______________________________________________ > manet mailing list > manet@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet > _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Nov 26 11:42:37 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA16512 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 11:42:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AP2k8-0007MR-Ff for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 11:42:20 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAQGgKbC028294 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 11:42:20 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AP2k7-0007MG-Tp for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 11:42:19 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA16487 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 11:42:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AP2k6-00011q-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 11:42:18 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AP2k6-00011j-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 11:42:18 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AP2jq-0007FA-3D; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 11:42:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AP2jL-0007EV-0J for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 11:41:31 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA16481 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 11:41:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AP2jJ-00011b-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 11:41:29 -0500 Received: from smtp1.bae.co.uk ([20.138.254.61]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AP2jJ-00011N-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 11:41:29 -0500 Received: from ngbaux (ngbaux.msd.bae.co.uk [141.245.68.234]) by smtp1.bae.co.uk (Switch-2.2.8/Switch-2.2.8) with ESMTP id hAQGeqF09694 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 16:40:52 GMT Received: from bsrsmtp02.ng.bae.co.uk ([141.245.68.242]) by ngbaux.net.bae.co.uk (PMDF V5.2-33 #44998) with SMTP id <0HOY006O7WYS35@ngbaux.net.bae.co.uk> for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 16:40:04 +0000 (GMT) Received: from glkms0001.GREENLNK.NET ([10.15.184.1]) by 141.245.68.242 with InterScan Messaging Security Suite for SMTP; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 16:40:38 +0000 Received: from glkms0008.GREENLNK.NET ([10.15.184.8]) by glkms0001.GREENLNK.NET with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5329); Wed, 26 Nov 2003 16:40:42 +0000 Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 16:40:41 +0000 From: "Dearlove, Chris (UK)" Subject: RE: [manet] Question regarding Mobility To: Richard Ogier , Philippe Jacquet Cc: MANET Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6375.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Thread-Topic: [manet] Question regarding Mobility Thread-Index: AcO0OtGKELWbxRaGStegVkUoEziFmgAAClUg content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Nov 2003 16:40:42.0741 (UTC) FILETIME=[08563250:01C3B43C] Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > Actually, we only need to consider a single node, and show that it is > uniformly distributed in the square. Thus, even though Philippe's > explanation is accurate, I don't think it is necessary to talk about > a Poisson distribution. Allowing the single node to travel straight > through boundaries, we only need to show that it is uniformly > distributed in whatever "clone" of the square it happens to be in > at any time. I think this follows simply because the node is > initially placed uniformly, and its movements are independent of > its location. It doesn't travel through walls, it bounces off them, so we need to apply some reflections, and we need basic symmetry properties (left/right, up/down). Otherwise consider a node which always picks its next destination a short distance away to the right, regardless of position. It will keep hitting the right wall, bouncing, doing the same again and always be close to the right wall, i.e. not uniform. With this minor tweak, I otherwise agree with you. (I'm assuming you are talking about the billiard ball model. The torus model of course is exactly as you say - with however the issue of what a jump means.) ******************************************************************** This email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient please delete it from your system and notify the sender. You should not copy it or use it for any purpose nor disclose or distribute its contents to any other person. ******************************************************************** _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Nov 26 13:11:33 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA20190 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 13:11:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AP48E-0006Dm-Gb for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 13:11:18 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAQIBI0d023908 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 13:11:18 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AP48E-0006DX-BA for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 13:11:18 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA20119 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 13:11:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AP48C-0002Ei-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 13:11:16 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AP48C-0002Ef-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 13:11:16 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AP47y-00066d-6u; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 13:11:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AP473-00065i-T6 for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 13:10:06 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA20085 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 13:09:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AP471-0002Dd-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 13:10:03 -0500 Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.120.22]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AP471-0002DZ-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 13:10:03 -0500 Received: from sdn-ap-004castocp0414.dialsprint.net ([63.187.33.160] helo=Panoramic) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AP46w-0004Er-00; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 10:09:59 -0800 Message-ID: <00ec01c3b448$997bd3a0$fc51b241@Panoramic> From: "Richard Ogier" To: "Dearlove, Chris ¥(UK¥)" Cc: "MANET" References: Subject: Re: [manet] Question regarding Mobility Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 10:10:39 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chris, > > Actually, we only need to consider a single node, and show that it is > > uniformly distributed in the square. Thus, even though Philippe's > > explanation is accurate, I don't think it is necessary to talk about > > a Poisson distribution. Allowing the single node to travel straight > > through boundaries, we only need to show that it is uniformly > > distributed in whatever "clone" of the square it happens to be in > > at any time. I think this follows simply because the node is > > initially placed uniformly, and its movements are independent of > > its location. > > It doesn't travel through walls, it bounces off them, so we need to > apply some reflections, and we need basic symmetry properties (left/right, > up/down). > > Otherwise consider a node which always picks its next destination a > short distance away to the right, regardless of position. It will keep > hitting the right wall, bouncing, doing the same again and always be > close to the right wall, i.e. not uniform. Good point. But I am talking about the probability distribution at any point in time. Even if the node never moves, it's position is still uniform because it was placed that way. If you want a single node to eventually travel near all points of the square, that is a different problem, but I agree that this is a desirable property. This property will be achieved if the node chooses a new random direction every T seconds. Regarding the application of reflections in the "clone" argument (if that's what you meant), when I said that we need to show the node position is uniformly distributed in whatever "clone" it happens to be in, the orientation (reflection) of the clone should not matter, since if the node is uniform for any reflection of the square, it is uniform for the original square. Also, it would be more accurate to say that the fractional part (i..e, modulo 1) of the node position is uniform in the unit square. Richard > With this minor tweak, I otherwise agree with you. (I'm assuming you > are talking about the billiard ball model. The torus model of course > is exactly as you say - with however the issue of what a jump means.) > > ******************************************************************** > This email and any attachments are confidential to the intended > recipient and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended > recipient please delete it from your system and notify the sender. > You should not copy it or use it for any purpose nor disclose or > distribute its contents to any other person. > ******************************************************************** > > _______________________________________________ > manet mailing list > manet@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet > _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Nov 26 19:22:37 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA06026 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 19:22:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AP9vJ-0005ws-B4 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 19:22:21 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAR0MLxb022859 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 19:22:21 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AP9vJ-0005wc-5B for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 19:22:21 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA06007 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 19:22:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AP9vH-0007VE-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 19:22:19 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AP9vH-0007VA-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 19:22:19 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AP9uz-0005sK-Oc; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 19:22:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AP9uf-0005rp-5E for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 19:21:41 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA05987 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 19:21:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AP9ud-0007Ur-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 19:21:39 -0500 Received: from web20712.mail.yahoo.com ([66.163.169.153]) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AP9uc-0007Uo-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 19:21:39 -0500 Message-ID: <20031127002139.43197.qmail@web20712.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [64.136.26.228] by web20712.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 16:21:39 PST Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 16:21:39 -0800 (PST) From: Roshini Bhalla To: manet@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1497030992-1069892499=:38068" Subject: [manet] Request for position based routing protocol Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , --0-1497030992-1069892499=:38068 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii hi, I am doing research in position based routing for ad hoc network. I would like to know if there is any implementation of position routing algorithm avilable.Will it be possible for someone to send me the code or web site where it can be accessed. Thanks for your help, Roshini --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now --0-1497030992-1069892499=:38068 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
hi,
 
I am doing research in position based routing for ad hoc network.
I would like to know if there is any implementation of position routing algorithm avilable.Will it be possible for someone to send me the code or web site where it can be accessed.
 
Thanks for your help,
Roshini

Do you Yahoo!?
Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now --0-1497030992-1069892499=:38068-- _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Nov 26 19:54:12 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA07065 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 19:54:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APAPq-0008F1-Lm for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 19:53:55 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAR0rs5P031673 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 19:53:54 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APAPq-0008Eh-Ck for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 19:53:54 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA07016 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 19:53:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APAPn-00008q-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 19:53:51 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APAPn-00008J-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 19:53:51 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APAP0-00083J-FN; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 19:53:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APAO8-00082T-Qa for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 19:52:09 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA06962 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 19:51:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APAO6-00007R-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 19:52:06 -0500 Received: from gateway.scalable-networks.com ([63.205.33.202] helo=mithrandir.scalable-networks.com) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APAO5-00006k-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 19:52:05 -0500 Received: (qmail 1539 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2003 00:57:42 -0000 Received: from web.lan.scalable-solutions.com (HELO cs.ucla.edu) (sssmail@192.168.0.1) by mithrandir.lan.scalable.networks.com with SMTP; 27 Nov 2003 00:57:42 -0000 Message-ID: <3FC54A8D.5080107@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 16:51:25 -0800 From: Mineo Takai User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dong Zheng , "GLOMOSIM-USERS-L@listserv.ucla.edu" CC: Mineo Takai , manet@ietf.org Subject: Re: [manet] Question on 802.11DCF References: <3FAED82E.7020007@spri.levels.unisa.edu.au> <006f01c3a723$307df180$e4f02e93@oahu> <3FAF16A8.50205@spri.levels.unisa.edu.au> <1068440681.29000.21.camel@wind1> <3FAFCBFF.586756CE@nist.gov> <1068500529.29000.45.camel@wind1> <3FB0208D.F08AC7B4@nist.gov> <3FC44DF5.106@cs.ucla.edu> <1069832302.28413.20.camel@wind1> <3FC464E5.1010102@cs.ucla.edu> In-Reply-To: <3FC464E5.1010102@cs.ucla.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dong: I decided to copy this message to manet@ietf.org just because I don't want people on this mailing list to unconsciously think the current GloMoSim fading models (and studies that used the models) are inaccurate. I see no problem with the GloMoSim Rayleigh fading model. It does produce a Rayleigh distribution, and I don't know why we need to use an exponential distribution which is the cdf of Rayleigh. Is there a rational behind it? As for RAYLEIGH_VARIANCE, the default value gives the mean value of 1.0 (or 0 dB) such that the fading model does not have an effect on the average rx power. Regards, Mineo Mineo Takai wrote: >> Anyway, I have another question which I posted on the mailing list of >> GloMoSim. I guess the Rayleigh fading implementation has a bug (if you >> plot the values that it generates for the fading_dB, it is actually >> Rayleigh distributed, not exponentially distributed), the correct code >> should be: >> *fading_dB = 10.0 * log10(-2.0 * RAYLEIGH_VARIANCE * >> log(pc_erand(seed))); >> >> Also RAYLEIGH_VARIANCE should be given a value of 0.5, thus not >> introducing any energy into the channel. > > > I will look into the model and get back to you in the glomosim mailing > list. Please don't post a GloMoSim bug report here to make me respond to > defend ;-) It's outside the scope of this mailing list. > > Mineo > > > _______________________________________________ > manet mailing list > manet@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Nov 26 23:58:28 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA12302 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 23:58:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APEEG-0001nu-7n for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 23:58:12 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAR4wCuY006928 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 23:58:12 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APEEG-0001nf-1S for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 23:58:12 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA12250 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 23:57:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APEED-0002dO-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 23:58:09 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APEED-0002dL-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 23:58:09 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APEE5-0001mP-LV; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 23:58:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APEDE-0001lV-Ew for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 23:57:08 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA12209 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 23:56:53 -0500 (EST) From: i24@uow.edu.au Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APEDC-0002cA-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 23:57:06 -0500 Received: from evaki.its.uow.edu.au ([130.130.68.32]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APEDB-0002bX-00 for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 23:57:05 -0500 Received: from evaki (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by evaki.its.uow.edu.au (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAR4uwAs007040 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 15:56:58 +1100 (EST) Received: from inti.its.uow.edu.au ([130.130.37.4]) by evaki.its.uow.edu.au (MailMonitor for SMTP v1.2.2 ) ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 15:56:58 +1100 (EST) Received: (from sendmail@localhost) by inti.its.uow.edu.au (8.12.9/8.12.9) id hAR4uwYb022243 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 15:56:58 +1100 (EST) Received: from mirapoint.uow.edu.au (mirapoint.uow.edu.au[130.130.68.27]) by inti.its.uow.edu.au (UWSMTPD 1.5.4) with ESMTP id 4555800.22237; Thursday, 27 November 2003 15:56:56 +1100 Received: from 130.130.10.111 by mirapoint.uow.edu.au (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.3.7-GR) with HTTP/1.1; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 15:56:54 +1100 Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 15:56:54 +1100 To: manet@ietf.org X-Mailer: Webmail Mirapoint Direct 3.3.7-GR MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <9ab76a41.e927988f.81e0300@mirapoint.uow.edu.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-MessageID: 4555800.22237 X-EnvelopeFrom: 4555800.22237 X-EnvelopeTo: 4555800.22237 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [manet] A question regarding wireless access bandwidth in ns2 Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, I would like to know how to increase the channel capacity of a wireless link in NS2. What parameters or code would I need to change to increase the bandwidth of wireless links to higher capacities, eg, '100 Mbps". as opposed to the current 11Mbps. Is this possible? I would appreciate some guidance if possible! Thankyou kindly, Irwan (i24@uow.edu.au) _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Nov 27 01:00:34 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA13709 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 01:00:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APFCJ-0004d8-Mp for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 01:00:16 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAR60Fb5017799 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 01:00:15 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APFCJ-0004cs-A0 for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 01:00:15 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA13651 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 00:59:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APFCF-0003Hh-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 01:00:11 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APFCF-0003HD-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 01:00:11 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APFB8-0004QS-J7; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 00:59:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APFAY-0004Pv-7t for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 00:58:26 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA13631 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 00:58:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APFAV-0003Gs-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 00:58:23 -0500 Received: from post5.inre.asu.edu ([129.219.110.120]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APFAU-0003Gm-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 00:58:22 -0500 Received: from conversion.post5.inre.asu.edu by asu.edu (PMDF V6.1-1X6 #30769) id <0HOZ00201XXA5D@asu.edu> for manet@ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 22:58:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.asu.edu (smtp.asu.edu [129.219.110.107]) by asu.edu (PMDF V6.1-1X6 #30769) with ESMTP id <0HOZ000M3XXAMB@asu.edu>; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 22:58:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from wind1.eas.asu.edu (wind1.eas.asu.edu [149.169.39.143]) by smtp.asu.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10/asu_smtp_relay,nullclient,tcp_wrapped) with ESMTP id hAR5wMS8022320; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 22:58:22 -0700 (MST) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 22:58:25 -0700 From: Dong Zheng Subject: Re: [manet] Question on 802.11DCF In-reply-to: <3FC54A8D.5080107@cs.ucla.edu> To: Mineo Takai Cc: GLOMOSIM-USERS-L@listserv.ucla.edu, manet@ietf.org Message-id: <1069912706.28413.309.camel@wind1> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.0.8 (1.0.8-9.7x.1) Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <3FAED82E.7020007@spri.levels.unisa.edu.au> <006f01c3a723$307df180$e4f02e93@oahu> <3FAF16A8.50205@spri.levels.unisa.edu.au> <1068440681.29000.21.camel@wind1> <3FAFCBFF.586756CE@nist.gov> <1068500529.29000.45.camel@wind1> <3FB0208D.F08AC7B4@nist.gov> <3FC44DF5.106@cs.ucla.edu> <1069832302.28413.20.camel@wind1> <3FC464E5.1010102@cs.ucla.edu> <3FC54A8D.5080107@cs.ucla.edu> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Mineo, Please correct me if I am wrong. The Rayleigh distribution has the cdf as: F = 1 - exp(-r^2/(2*sigma^2)) So we generate r using inverse transform method as: r = sqrt(-2*sigma^2*log(u)), where u is a uniform random number between 0 and 1. To compute the channel gain, we need to compute: fading_gain = 10*log10(r^2) = 10*log10(-2*sigma^2*log(u)). However, the original code is 5*log10(-2*sigma^2*log(u)). For the Rayleigh variance, the expected value of r^2 is: E(r^2) = 2*sigma^2, we want this value to be 1, thus sigma^2 has to be 1/2. Thanks, -Dong On Wed, 2003-11-26 at 17:51, Mineo Takai wrote: > Dong: > > I decided to copy this message to manet@ietf.org just because I don't want > people on this mailing list to unconsciously think the current GloMoSim fading > models (and studies that used the models) are inaccurate. > > I see no problem with the GloMoSim Rayleigh fading model. It does produce a > Rayleigh distribution, and I don't know why we need to use an exponential > distribution which is the cdf of Rayleigh. Is there a rational behind it? > > As for RAYLEIGH_VARIANCE, the default value gives the mean value of 1.0 (or 0 > dB) such that the fading model does not have an effect on the average rx power. > > Regards, > > Mineo > > > Mineo Takai wrote: > > >> Anyway, I have another question which I posted on the mailing list of > >> GloMoSim. I guess the Rayleigh fading implementation has a bug (if you > >> plot the values that it generates for the fading_dB, it is actually > >> Rayleigh distributed, not exponentially distributed), the correct code > >> should be: > >> *fading_dB = 10.0 * log10(-2.0 * RAYLEIGH_VARIANCE * > >> log(pc_erand(seed))); > >> > >> Also RAYLEIGH_VARIANCE should be given a value of 0.5, thus not > >> introducing any energy into the channel. > > > > > > I will look into the model and get back to you in the glomosim mailing > > list. Please don't post a GloMoSim bug report here to make me respond to > > defend ;-) It's outside the scope of this mailing list. > > > > Mineo > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > manet mailing list > > manet@ietf.org > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet > _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Nov 27 02:53:41 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA29292 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 02:53:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APGxo-000391-Cw for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 02:53:24 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAR7rO5C012086 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 02:53:24 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APGxn-00038r-DC for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 02:53:23 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA29275 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 02:53:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APGxj-0004hK-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 02:53:19 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APGxj-0004hH-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 02:53:19 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APGxS-00033K-H8; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 02:53:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APGx3-00032r-RV for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 02:52:37 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA29265 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 02:52:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APGwz-0004gz-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 02:52:34 -0500 Received: from india-ironport-1.cisco.com ([64.104.129.195]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APGwz-0004gc-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 02:52:33 -0500 Received: from cisco.com (64.104.129.221) by india-ironport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 27 Nov 2003 13:32:16 +0530 Received: from ind-mira-01.cisco.com (IDENT:mirapoint@ind-mira-01.cisco.com [64.104.129.12]) by india-msg-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.9/8.12.6) with ESMTP id hARDJa0s017492 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 13:19:37 GMT Received: from poornaw2k01 (dhcp-64-104-134-201.cisco.com [64.104.134.201]) by ind-mira-01.cisco.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.3.6-GR) with ESMTP id AAA19320; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 13:25:27 +0530 (IST) From: "Poornananda G R" To: Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 13:21:58 +0530 Organization: Cisco Systems Message-ID: <000801c3b4bb$55cce040$c9866840@apac.cisco.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0009_01C3B4E9.6F882980" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4927.1200 Importance: Normal Subject: [manet] Simulation Tool NS2/Glomosim/...? Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C3B4E9.6F882980 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All, I want to study (and possibly change) the implementation of ad hoc routing protocols (aodv, dsr, olsr etc). I am looking for a simulation tool - (NS2, glomosim or any other) that has all these implemented. So I need advice as to which is the best tool to use based ease of coding, user interface, support for many implementations and so on. Any help will be appreciated. Thanks very much. Regards, -Poorna ---------------------- Poornananda G R, Cisco Systems, +91-80-229 9625 x 3823 ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C3B4E9.6F882980 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message
Hi All,
 
   I want to = study (and possibly change) the = implementation of ad=20 hoc routing protocols = (aodv, dsr,=20 olsr etc).
I am looking for a simulation tool - (NS2, glomosim or any = other)  that has all these implemented.
 
So I need advice as to which is = the best=20 tool to use based ease of coding, user interface, support for many=20 implementations and so on.
 
Any help will be = appreciated.
Thanks=20 very much.
 
Regards,
-Poorna
 
 
 
----------------------
Poornananda G = R,
Cisco = Systems,
+91-80-229 9625 x=20 3823
 
------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C3B4E9.6F882980-- _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Nov 27 03:11:36 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA29769 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 03:11:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APHF9-0004D0-KM for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 03:11:20 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAR8BJ1s016178 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 03:11:19 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APHF9-0004Cr-7T for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 03:11:19 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA29750 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 03:11:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APHF5-0004vW-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 03:11:15 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APHF4-0004vT-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 03:11:14 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APHEt-00048M-4e; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 03:11:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APHEM-00047Z-6T for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 03:10:30 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA29740 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 03:10:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APHEI-0004vD-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 03:10:26 -0500 Received: from dahlia.noc.ucla.edu ([169.232.46.11]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APHEH-0004vA-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 03:10:25 -0500 Received: from cs.ucla.edu (ts14-115.dialup.bol.ucla.edu [169.232.225.254]) by dahlia.noc.ucla.edu (8.12.8p2/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hAR8ALG9012948; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 00:10:21 -0800 Message-ID: <3FC5B27C.3040005@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 00:14:52 -0800 From: Mineo Takai User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; WinNT4.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, ja, th MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dong Zheng CC: GLOMOSIM-USERS-L@listserv.ucla.edu, manet@ietf.org Subject: Re: [manet] Question on 802.11DCF References: <3FAED82E.7020007@spri.levels.unisa.edu.au> <006f01c3a723$307df180$e4f02e93@oahu> <3FAF16A8.50205@spri.levels.unisa.edu.au> <1068440681.29000.21.camel@wind1> <3FAFCBFF.586756CE@nist.gov> <1068500529.29000.45.camel@wind1> <3FB0208D.F08AC7B4@nist.gov> <3FC44DF5.106@cs.ucla.edu> <1069832302.28413.20.camel@wind1> <3FC464E5.1010102@cs.ucla.edu> <3FC54A8D.5080107@cs.ucla.edu> <1069912706.28413.309.camel@wind1> In-Reply-To: <1069912706.28413.309.camel@wind1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dong: Ok, I now see your point. Since the Rayleigh fading describes gain/loss of the signal amplitude, the fading gain (power) should be the square of the Rayleigh variable. The fading code in GloMoSim uses the Rayleigh variable directly, thus it becomes halved (10*log10(sqrt(f)) == 5*log10(f)) and its variance needs to be sigma^2 == 2/PI. Let me know if my understanding is correct. Mineo Dong Zheng wrote: > Hi, Mineo, > > Please correct me if I am wrong. > > The Rayleigh distribution has the cdf as: > F = 1 - exp(-r^2/(2*sigma^2)) > > So we generate r using inverse transform method as: > r = sqrt(-2*sigma^2*log(u)), > where u is a uniform random number between 0 and 1. > > To compute the channel gain, we need to compute: > fading_gain = 10*log10(r^2) = 10*log10(-2*sigma^2*log(u)). > However, the original code is 5*log10(-2*sigma^2*log(u)). > > For the Rayleigh variance, the expected value of r^2 is: > E(r^2) = 2*sigma^2, > we want this value to be 1, thus sigma^2 has to be 1/2. > > Thanks, > -Dong > > On Wed, 2003-11-26 at 17:51, Mineo Takai wrote: > >>Dong: >> >>I decided to copy this message to manet@ietf.org just because I don't want >>people on this mailing list to unconsciously think the current GloMoSim fading >>models (and studies that used the models) are inaccurate. >> >>I see no problem with the GloMoSim Rayleigh fading model. It does produce a >>Rayleigh distribution, and I don't know why we need to use an exponential >>distribution which is the cdf of Rayleigh. Is there a rational behind it? >> >>As for RAYLEIGH_VARIANCE, the default value gives the mean value of 1.0 (or 0 >>dB) such that the fading model does not have an effect on the average rx power. >> >>Regards, >> >>Mineo >> >> >>Mineo Takai wrote: >> >> >>>>Anyway, I have another question which I posted on the mailing list of >>>>GloMoSim. I guess the Rayleigh fading implementation has a bug (if you >>>>plot the values that it generates for the fading_dB, it is actually >>>>Rayleigh distributed, not exponentially distributed), the correct code >>>>should be: >>>>*fading_dB = 10.0 * log10(-2.0 * RAYLEIGH_VARIANCE * >>>>log(pc_erand(seed))); >>>> >>>>Also RAYLEIGH_VARIANCE should be given a value of 0.5, thus not >>>>introducing any energy into the channel. >>> >>> >>>I will look into the model and get back to you in the glomosim mailing >>>list. Please don't post a GloMoSim bug report here to make me respond to >>>defend ;-) It's outside the scope of this mailing list. >>> >>>Mineo >>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>manet mailing list >>>manet@ietf.org >>>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > manet mailing list > manet@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Nov 27 03:51:42 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA00537 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 03:51:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APHrx-000603-2R for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 03:51:25 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAR8pOjf023061 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 03:51:24 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APHrw-0005zs-FM for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 03:51:24 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA00509 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 03:51:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APHrt-0005Hz-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 03:51:21 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APHrt-0005Hv-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 03:51:21 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APHrZ-0005vR-VS; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 03:51:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APHrH-0005vC-CS for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 03:50:43 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA00501 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 03:50:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APHrE-0005Hc-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 03:50:40 -0500 Received: from post5.inre.asu.edu ([129.219.110.120]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APHrE-0005HZ-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 03:50:40 -0500 Received: from conversion.post5.inre.asu.edu by asu.edu (PMDF V6.1-1X6 #30769) id <0HP0003015WGWR@asu.edu> for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 01:50:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp.asu.edu (smtp.asu.edu [129.219.110.107]) by asu.edu (PMDF V6.1-1X6 #30769) with ESMTP id <0HP0001JR5WGV6@asu.edu>; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 01:50:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from wind1.eas.asu.edu (wind1.eas.asu.edu [149.169.39.143]) by smtp.asu.edu (8.12.10/8.12.10/asu_smtp_relay,nullclient,tcp_wrapped) with ESMTP id hAR8oeS8026108; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 01:50:40 -0700 (MST) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 01:50:43 -0700 From: Dong Zheng Subject: Re: [manet] Question on 802.11DCF In-reply-to: <3FC5B27C.3040005@cs.ucla.edu> To: Mineo Takai Cc: GLOMOSIM-USERS-L@listserv.ucla.edu, manet@ietf.org Message-id: <1069923043.28413.314.camel@wind1> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.0.8 (1.0.8-9.7x.1) Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <3FAED82E.7020007@spri.levels.unisa.edu.au> <006f01c3a723$307df180$e4f02e93@oahu> <3FAF16A8.50205@spri.levels.unisa.edu.au> <1068440681.29000.21.camel@wind1> <3FAFCBFF.586756CE@nist.gov> <1068500529.29000.45.camel@wind1> <3FB0208D.F08AC7B4@nist.gov> <3FC44DF5.106@cs.ucla.edu> <1069832302.28413.20.camel@wind1> <3FC464E5.1010102@cs.ucla.edu> <3FC54A8D.5080107@cs.ucla.edu> <1069912706.28413.309.camel@wind1> <3FC5B27C.3040005@cs.ucla.edu> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Thu, 2003-11-27 at 01:14, Mineo Takai wrote: > Dong: > > Ok, I now see your point. Since the Rayleigh fading describes gain/loss > of the signal amplitude, the fading gain (power) should be the square of > the Rayleigh variable. The fading code in GloMoSim uses the Rayleigh > variable directly, thus it becomes halved (10*log10(sqrt(f)) == > 5*log10(f)) and its variance needs to be sigma^2 == 2/PI. > > Let me know if my understanding is correct. > Yes, correct. ;-) -Dong _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Nov 27 04:19:33 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA01184 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 04:19:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APIIr-0007dc-Mz for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 04:19:16 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAR9JD00029354 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 04:19:13 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APIIp-0007dN-Ul for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 04:19:11 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA01167 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 04:18:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APIIn-0005Yi-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 04:19:09 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APIIm-0005Yf-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 04:19:08 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APIIg-0007ZK-G2; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 04:19:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APII8-0007YS-BT for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 04:18:28 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA01148 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 04:18:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APII5-0005YG-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 04:18:25 -0500 Received: from smtp1.bae.co.uk ([20.138.254.61]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APII4-0005Xw-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 04:18:25 -0500 Received: from ngbaux (ngbaux.msd.bae.co.uk [141.245.68.234]) by smtp1.bae.co.uk (Switch-2.2.8/Switch-2.2.8) with ESMTP id hAR9HtF12161 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 09:17:55 GMT Received: from bsrsmtp02.ng.bae.co.uk ([141.245.68.242]) by ngbaux.net.bae.co.uk (PMDF V5.2-33 #44998) with SMTP id <0HP00041G74JBS@ngbaux.net.bae.co.uk> for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 09:17:08 +0000 (GMT) Received: from glkms0001.GREENLNK.NET ([10.15.184.1]) by 141.245.68.242 with InterScan Messaging Security Suite for SMTP; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 09:16:34 +0000 Received: from glkms0008.GREENLNK.NET ([10.15.184.8]) by glkms0001.GREENLNK.NET with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5329); Thu, 27 Nov 2003 09:16:38 +0000 Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 09:16:38 +0000 From: "Dearlove, Chris (UK)" Subject: RE: [manet] Question regarding Mobility To: Richard Ogier Cc: MANET Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6375.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Thread-Topic: [manet] Question regarding Mobility Thread-Index: AcO0SITpqScTiAwlSDePhrIALXxWcgAfU4qw content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Nov 2003 09:16:38.0538 (UTC) FILETIME=[299136A0:01C3B4C7] Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > > Actually, we only need to consider a single node, and=20 > show that it is > > > uniformly distributed in the square. Thus, even though Philippe's > > > explanation is accurate, I don't think it is necessary to=20 > talk about > > > a Poisson distribution. Allowing the single node to=20 > travel straight > > > through boundaries, we only need to show that it is uniformly > > > distributed in whatever "clone" of the square it happens to be in > > > at any time. I think this follows simply because the node is > > > initially placed uniformly, and its movements are independent of > > > its location. > > > > It doesn't travel through walls, it bounces off them, so we need to > > apply some reflections, and we need basic symmetry=20 > properties (left/right, > > up/down). > > > > Otherwise consider a node which always picks its next destination a > > short distance away to the right, regardless of position.=20 > It will keep > > hitting the right wall, bouncing, doing the same again and always be > > close to the right wall, i.e. not uniform. >=20 > Good point. But I am talking about the probability=20 > distribution at any > point in time. So am I. Suppose that all nodes have the above skewed distribution of movement. Then, regardless of initial uniform distribution, all will end up near the right wall, not uniformly distributed. > Even if the node never moves, it's position is still > uniform because it was placed that way. Not moving is symmetric! Of course the main point you make is important: you need a uniform initial distribution. I think that and symmetry of movement (in two axes) is then sufficient for a uniform distribution at all future times. I haven't rigorously proved it however (a proof would be based on equivalent positions, with reflection). ******************************************************************** This email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient please delete it from your system and notify the sender. You should not copy it or use it for any purpose nor disclose or distribute its contents to any other person. ******************************************************************** _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Nov 27 08:23:31 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA06443 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 08:23:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APM6z-0000Qi-Hc for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 08:23:14 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hARDNDkW001646 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 08:23:13 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APM6z-0000QT-Cd for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 08:23:13 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA06428 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 08:23:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APM6y-0000JY-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 08:23:12 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APM6x-0000JV-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 08:23:11 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APM6n-0000PI-K3; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 08:23:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APM6Z-0000Oy-Ie for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 08:22:47 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA06416 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 08:22:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APM6Y-0000JF-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 08:22:46 -0500 Received: from odin.unik.no ([193.156.96.7]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APM6X-0000Ip-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 08:22:46 -0500 Received: from freya.unik.no ([193.156.96.215]) by odin.unik.no with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #12) id 1APM61-0000FD-00; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 14:22:13 +0100 Received: from leka.unik.no ([193.156.97.98] helo=unik.no) by freya.unik.no with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #12) id 1APM60-0007DW-00; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 14:22:12 +0100 Message-ID: <3FC5FAAE.6060307@unik.no> Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 14:22:54 +0100 From: Frank Li User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020830 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, no MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mineo Takai CC: manet@ietf.org Subject: Re: [manet] Simulating 802.11b and g References: <3FC38445.7050802@cs.ucla.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Mineo, > > No, PMD_CS and PMD_ED do not correspond to CST and RXT in my paper. > CCA returns busy if the radio successfully received a signal preamble > whose power is more than or equal to PMD_CS. This is quite clear now. But does PMD_CS correspond to receriver-sensitivity in the card specification? > If it did not receive a signal preamble, the threshold The threshold for sensing or PLCP decoding? > is raised by 20 dB (PMD_ED) due to difficulty (or instability) of > detecting energy on the channel without synchronization. So, PMD_CS > and PMD_ED together correspond to CST. So you mean the PLCP header can be correctly decoded if the received signal is strong enough, even though the bit sequence is not synchronized? > > We are making our 802.11 model more detailed by replacing CST with > these two thresholds. > Are there any papers/reports on your model? What is the relationship between CST and these two thresholds? Do you express CST as x*PMD_CS + y*PMD_ED? Frank _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Nov 27 09:33:32 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA07786 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 09:33:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APNCl-0002xx-1i for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 09:33:15 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAREXEmJ011387 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 09:33:14 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APNCk-0002xT-RK for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 09:33:14 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA07765 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 09:33:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APNCi-00010t-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 09:33:13 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APNCi-00010n-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 09:33:12 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APNCY-0002v9-TE; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 09:33:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APNCC-0002ui-OW for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 09:32:40 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA07748 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 09:32:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APNCA-00010P-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 09:32:38 -0500 Received: from concorde.inria.fr ([192.93.2.39]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APNCA-00010B-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 09:32:38 -0500 Received: from prokofiev.inria.fr (prokofiev.inria.fr [128.93.17.51]) by concorde.inria.fr (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id hAREW2117487; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 15:32:02 +0100 (MET) Received: from muhletha by prokofiev.inria.fr with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1APNBZ-00061w-00; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 15:32:01 +0100 From: Paul Muhlethaler Reply-To: Paul.Muhlethaler@inria.fr Organization: INRIA To: "#LI ZHUOWEI#" Subject: Re: [manet] About your knowledge about the intrusive scripts to MANET Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 15:32:00 +0100 User-Agent: KMail/1.5.1 References: <052033A55521254893A4E2041957E1D05C4502@mail03.student.main.ntu.edu.sg> In-Reply-To: <052033A55521254893A4E2041957E1D05C4502@mail03.student.main.ntu.edu.sg> Cc: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-2022-jp" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200311271532.00982.Paul.Muhlethaler@inria.fr> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We have studied how to secure OLSR, the paper can be found at http://voop.free.fr/Publications/2003/medhocnet03.ps.gz Further works with more details on the same issue are in progress. That is not exactly the question we are asking, however this paper studies vulnerabilities of OLSR (also applicable to other proactive routing protocols and most probably also to reactive protocols ? ) and that is may be linked to your question. Regards Paul Muhlethaler INRIA. Projet HiPERCOM Tel 01.39.63.52.78 - Fax 01.39.63.55.66 http://menetou.inria.fr/‾muhletha/PaulMuhlethaler.htm On Wednesday 26 November 2003 07:25, #LI ZHUOWEI# wrote: > Hi, Everybody, > > Do you know whether there exist some intrusive scripts (typical designed > and utilized in one paper) for MANET? For my work, I want to design the > intrusive scenarios, in routing or traffic anomalies, for future use in the > security design or for the variety of the traffic for future MANET > simulation (I mean, evaluate the performance of one technique in a very > malicious environment). Since I worry about the doubling research work, > please notify me if you have such intrusive scripts for MANET. Thank you. > > > Regards! > > Sincerely yours, > Li Zhuowei > *************************************************************************** >* ****** Title: Ph.D. candidate > ****** Email: zhwei.li@pmail.ntu.edu.sg > ****** Home: http://www.cais.ntu.edu.sg/‾zhuowei > ****** or http://www.ntu.edu.sg/home5/pg01316106 > *************************************************************************** >* > > _______________________________________________ > manet mailing list > manet@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet -- Paul Muhlethaler INRIA. Projet HiPERCOM Tel 01.39.63.52.78 - Fax 01.39.63.55.66 http://menetou.inria.fr/‾muhletha/PaulMuhlethaler.htm _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Nov 27 10:19:19 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA07785 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 09:33:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APNCl-0002xy-26 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 09:33:15 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAREXFtO011385 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 09:33:15 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APNCk-0002xU-RM for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 09:33:14 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA07763 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 09:33:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APNCi-00010r-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 09:33:12 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APNCi-00010j-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 09:33:12 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APNCX-0002uz-IL; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 09:33:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APNBp-0002uS-9X for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 09:32:17 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA07740 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 09:32:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APNBn-00010E-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 09:32:15 -0500 Received: from mbox1.ntu.edu.sg ([155.69.5.171]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APNBm-0000yR-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 09:32:15 -0500 Received: from mail01.student.main.ntu.edu.sg ([155.69.5.165]) by mbox1.ntu.edu.sg with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5576); Thu, 27 Nov 2003 22:12:50 +0800 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [manet] Simulating 802.11b and g X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.6944.0 Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 22:12:52 +0800 Message-ID: <3D565922795545468AE3E3DA2881BEA901F85C5E@mail01.student.main.ntu.edu.sg> Thread-Topic: [manet] Simulating 802.11b and g Thread-Index: AcO06i1Ajip9DTSqT2eFGli5W+MjTgABJudw From: "#LI ZHIFEI#" To: "Frank Li" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Nov 2003 14:12:50.0277 (UTC) FILETIME=[8A596150:01C3B4F0] Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, frank Receive Sensitivity is how much energy a signal should be to allow a = card receive it correctly with large probability. For more details, pls = check at: http://www.freenetworks.org/moin/index.cgi/ReceiveSensitivity Therefore, I still think that Receive Sensitivity is roughly related to = transmission range, while PMD_CS / PMD_ED is related to sensing range. In fact, whether the PMD_ED or PMD_CS should be used as the threshold = depends on the CCA mode (please see Page-58 in IEEE 802.11b-1999) being = used. The PMD_ED should be greater than PMD_CS because a non-DSSS signal = (e.g., signal from micro-wave oven) has smaller interference to the IEEE = 802.11. If any confuse, pls point out. Best regards Li zhifei -----Original Message----- From: manet-admin@ietf.org [mailto:manet-admin@ietf.org]On Behalf Of = Frank Li Sent: dijous, 27 / novembre / 2003 21:23 To: Mineo Takai Cc: manet@ietf.org Subject: Re: [manet] Simulating 802.11b and g Hi Mineo, > > No, PMD_CS and PMD_ED do not correspond to CST and RXT in my paper.=20 > CCA returns busy if the radio successfully received a signal preamble=20 > whose power is more than or equal to PMD_CS.=20 This is quite clear now. But does PMD_CS correspond to=20 receriver-sensitivity in the card specification? > If it did not receive a signal preamble, the threshold=20 The threshold for sensing or PLCP decoding? > is raised by 20 dB (PMD_ED) due to difficulty (or instability) of=20 > detecting energy on the channel without synchronization. So, PMD_CS=20 > and PMD_ED together correspond to CST. So you mean the PLCP header can be correctly decoded if the received=20 signal is strong enough, even though the bit sequence is not = synchronized?=20 > > We are making our 802.11 model more detailed by replacing CST with=20 > these two thresholds. > =20 Are there any papers/reports on your model? What is the relationship=20 between CST and these two thresholds? Do you express CST as x*PMD_CS +=20 y*PMD_ED? Frank _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Nov 27 12:36:29 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA13387 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 12:36:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APQ3p-0003Bc-6O for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 12:36:13 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hARHaDwI012242 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 12:36:13 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APQ3p-0003BN-1o for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 12:36:13 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA13364 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 12:35:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APQ3n-00030u-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 12:36:11 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APQ3n-00030r-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 12:36:11 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APQ3e-0003A7-9I; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 12:36:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APQ32-00039Y-Ts for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 12:35:24 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA13358 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 12:35:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APQ31-00030Z-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 12:35:23 -0500 Received: from isis.lip6.fr ([132.227.60.2]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APQ30-00030R-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 12:35:22 -0500 Received: from tibre.lip6.fr (tibre.lip6.fr [132.227.74.2]) by isis.lip6.fr (8.12.10/jtpda-5.4+victor) with ESMTP id hARHYtX1024136 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 18:34:55 +0100 X-pt: isis.lip6.fr Received: from localhost (iannone@localhost) by tibre.lip6.fr (8.11.6p3/8.11.6) with ESMTP id hARHYsx07471; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 18:34:54 +0100 (CET) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 18:34:54 +0100 (CET) From: Luigi Iannone To: manet@ietf.org cc: i24@uow.edu.au Subject: Re: [manet] A question regarding wireless access bandwidth in ns2 In-Reply-To: <20031127143300.11214.37470.Mailman@www1.ietf.org> Message-ID: References: <20031127143300.11214.37470.Mailman@www1.ietf.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Scanned-By: isis.lip6.fr Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , > --__--__-- > > Message: 4 > From: i24@uow.edu.au > Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 15:56:54 +1100 > To: manet@ietf.org > Subject: [manet] A question regarding wireless access bandwidth in ns2 > > Hi all, > > I would like to know how to increase the channel capacity of > a wireless link in NS2. > > What parameters or code would I need to change to increase > the bandwidth of wireless links to higher capacities, > eg, '100 Mbps". as opposed to the current 11Mbps. Mac/802_11 set dataRate_ 100e6 Keep attention... this will not change the PLCPHeader length that is setted to the long version. At this speed the use of long PLCPHeader instead of the short will reduce your throughput a lot. Ns-2 does not offer native way to change the PLCPHeader you have to go in the code. > > Is this possible? > > I would appreciate some guidance if possible! > > Thankyou kindly, > Irwan > > (i24@uow.edu.au) > > > ------------------------------------> Luigi Iannone - Laboratoire D'Informatique Paris 6 e.mail: luigi.iannone@lip6.fr Tel: +33 (0)1 44 27 71 28 _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Nov 27 14:25:00 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA15736 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 14:25:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APRkn-0008Jz-Rz for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 14:24:43 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hARJOfnb031981 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 14:24:41 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APRkn-0008Jk-OJ for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 14:24:41 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA15707 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 14:24:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APRkk-00048p-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 14:24:38 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APRkk-00048Y-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 14:24:38 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APRk9-00088p-Ks; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 14:24:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APRjS-00087y-32 for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 14:23:18 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA15690 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 14:23:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APRjP-00048L-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 14:23:15 -0500 Received: from nightshade.noc.ucla.edu ([169.232.48.18]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APRjO-00048I-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 14:23:15 -0500 Received: from cs.ucla.edu (ts17-123.dialup.bol.ucla.edu [169.232.230.199]) by nightshade.noc.ucla.edu (8.12.8p2/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hARJN86r007254; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 11:23:11 -0800 Message-ID: <3FC65029.5050607@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 11:27:37 -0800 From: Mineo Takai User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; WinNT4.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, ja, th MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Frank Li CC: manet@ietf.org Subject: Re: [manet] Simulating 802.11b and g References: <3FC38445.7050802@cs.ucla.edu> <3FC5FAAE.6060307@unik.no> In-Reply-To: <3FC5FAAE.6060307@unik.no> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Frank, Frank Li wrote: > Hi Mineo, > >> >> No, PMD_CS and PMD_ED do not correspond to CST and RXT in my paper. >> CCA returns busy if the radio successfully received a signal preamble >> whose power is more than or equal to PMD_CS. > > This is quite clear now. But does PMD_CS correspond to > receriver-sensitivity in the card specification? As someone else has already pointed out, the receiver-sensitivity in the card specification is typically the signal power level at which the card can achieve FER (Frame Error Rate) less than or equal to 10%. Since that FER is measured for data frames (I don't remember the exact size now, but it should be 1000 or 1500 bytes) PMD_CS can be lower than the receiver-sensitivity. >> If it did not receive a signal preamble, the threshold > > The threshold for sensing or PLCP decoding? This threshold is for CCA (ED). >> is raised by 20 dB (PMD_ED) due to difficulty (or instability) of >> detecting energy on the channel without synchronization. So, PMD_CS >> and PMD_ED together correspond to CST. > > So you mean the PLCP header can be correctly decoded if the received > signal is strong enough, even though the bit sequence is not synchronized? No, if the card misses the beginning of signal (preamble), it cannot decode the frame. >> We are making our 802.11 model more detailed by replacing CST with >> these two thresholds. > > Are there any papers/reports on your model? What is the relationship > between CST and these two thresholds? Do you express CST as x*PMD_CS + > y*PMD_ED? No and no. For the first question, I am working with several people to come up with a reasonable model with reasonable thresholds that exclude implementation dependent (proprietary) mechanisms. I don't know if that is possible, but I will try :-) For the second question, if the card (CCA) uses CS only, CST = PMD_CS. If it does ED only, CST = PMD_ED. If it does CS and ED, CST = PMD_ED for most situations (PMD_CS < PMD_ED). If it does CS or ED, CST = {PMD_CS (with preamble) | PMD_ED (without preamble)}. Mineo > > Frank > _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Nov 27 21:50:54 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA29087 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 21:50:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APYiL-0005hf-J1 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 21:50:37 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAS2obdV021917 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 21:50:37 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APYiL-0005hQ-Bm for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 21:50:37 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA29075 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 21:50:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APYiI-0001RG-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 21:50:34 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APYiH-0001RD-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 21:50:33 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APYhm-0005ei-Sg; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 21:50:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APYgn-0005di-Lt for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 21:49:01 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA29046 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 21:48:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APYgk-0001QP-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 21:48:58 -0500 Received: from tomts36-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.93]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APYgk-0001QM-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 21:48:58 -0500 Received: from JOHNSON ([64.230.107.202]) by tomts36-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with SMTP id <20031128024858.WWCU22549.tomts36-srv.bellnexxia.net@JOHNSON> for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 21:48:58 -0500 Message-ID: <000801c3b55a$2d1c2850$96fea8c0@JOHNSON> From: "Standards Update" To: References: <3FC38445.7050802@cs.ucla.edu> <3FC5FAAE.6060307@unik.no> <3FC65029.5050607@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 21:49:00 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [manet] Propagation Models Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, I am new to this area and I have been reading up on ns2 for a while. How/where can I get the source for the propagation model implementations in ns2? Any help would be highly appreciated. Thanks, --John _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Nov 27 22:22:35 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA29813 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 22:22:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APZD1-0006yh-8w for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 22:22:19 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAS3MJTX026819 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 22:22:19 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APZD0-0006vO-OA for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 22:22:18 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA29801 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 22:22:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APZCx-0001ob-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 22:22:15 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APZCw-0001oY-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 22:22:14 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APZCj-0006rO-G7; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 22:22:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APZBq-0006r5-LW for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 22:21:06 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA29778 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 22:20:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APZBn-0001oV-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 22:21:03 -0500 Received: from mbox1.ntu.edu.sg ([155.69.5.171]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APZBm-0001oG-00 for manet@ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 22:21:02 -0500 Received: from mail03.student.main.ntu.edu.sg ([155.69.5.167]) by mbox1.ntu.edu.sg with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5576); Fri, 28 Nov 2003 10:48:30 +0800 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-2022-jp" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.6944.0 Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 10:44:45 +0800 Message-ID: <052033A55521254893A4E2041957E1D085B1AD@mail03.student.main.ntu.edu.sg> Thread-Topic: About the intrusive scripts and another questions Thread-Index: AcO1WZThQk4JjYggTciww2K36kiQ6g== From: "#LI ZHUOWEI#" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Nov 2003 02:48:30.0081 (UTC) FILETIME=[1AFA6F10:01C3B55A] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [manet] About the intrusive scripts and another questions Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, As there are few responses for my emails, I will begin to design the possible anomalies and intrusions in the MANET by NS-2 scripts, i.e. to build one malicious environments like the real application of MANET. The purpose is to strengthern the future protocols design by exploiting the vulnerabilities of existing protocols and the tradeoff between security and resource constraint. If you have similar interest to build/develop such an environment for evaluating other techniques, maybe, we can cooperate to give it a more complete and more careful design with our effort. For such a cooperation, you can send one email to me first.. Thank you... To the people familiar with MANET, especially hardware-oriented, I want to know the degree of the resource consuming for promicuous eavedropping mode in MANET with comparison with non-promicuous mode. In other words, can you explain the relation between promicuous model and the resource comsumption in MANET, and a quantative analysis is better... ? Thank you... Regards! Sincerely yours, Li Zhuowei **************************************************************************** ****** Title: Ph.D. candidate ****** Email: zhwei.li@pmail.ntu.edu.sg ****** Home: http://www.cais.ntu.edu.sg/‾zhuowei ****** or http://www.ntu.edu.sg/home5/pg01316106 **************************************************************************** 　 _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Nov 28 03:56:58 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA18835 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 03:56:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APeQW-0002Gp-EC for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 03:56:40 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAS8uaZ7008721 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 03:56:36 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APeQU-0002DZ-EU for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 03:56:34 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA18822 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 03:56:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APeQR-0005OW-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 03:56:31 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APeQR-0005OT-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 03:56:31 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APeQ0-0002C2-Dh; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 03:56:04 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APePN-0002B1-Bu for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 03:55:25 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA18805 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 03:55:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APePK-0005Ny-00 for manet@ietf.org; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 03:55:22 -0500 Received: from concorde.inria.fr ([192.93.2.39]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APePJ-0005Nv-00 for manet@ietf.org; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 03:55:22 -0500 Received: from yana.inria.fr (yana.inria.fr [128.93.9.62]) by concorde.inria.fr (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id hAS8sp121752; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 09:54:51 +0100 (MET) Received: from inria.fr (naimi@albeniz-16.inria.fr [128.93.17.24]) by yana.inria.fr (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id hAS8spD26432; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 09:54:51 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <3FC70CA7.1040209@inria.fr> Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 09:51:51 +0100 From: Amina Naimi User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.0.0) Gecko/20020623 Debian/1.0.0-0.woody.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Standards Update CC: manet@ietf.org Subject: Re: [manet] Propagation Models References: <3FC38445.7050802@cs.ucla.edu> <3FC5FAAE.6060307@unik.no> <3FC65029.5050607@cs.ucla.edu> <000801c3b55a$2d1c2850$96fea8c0@JOHNSON> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-2022-JP Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Standards Update wrote: >Hello, > >I am new to this area and I have been reading up on ns2 for a while. > >How/where can I get the source for the propagation model implementations in >ns2? > >Any help would be highly appreciated. > >Thanks, >--John > > > >_______________________________________________ >manet mailing list >manet@ietf.org >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet > > > > Hello, The common used propagation model is implemented in the file tworayground.cc. Other models exist like shadowing (implemented in shadowing.cc) Regards _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Nov 28 04:03:33 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA19032 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 04:03:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APeWx-0002nS-EL for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 04:03:16 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAS93EdU010744 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 04:03:14 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APeWw-0002mW-E6 for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 04:03:14 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA19005 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 04:03:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APeWs-0005VC-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 04:03:11 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APeWs-0005V9-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 04:03:10 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APeWk-0002i9-QX; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 04:03:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APeVp-0002bS-2u for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 04:02:05 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA18996 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 04:01:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APeVm-0005Uz-00 for manet@ietf.org; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 04:02:02 -0500 Received: from web13102.mail.yahoo.com ([216.136.174.147]) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APeVl-0005Uw-00 for manet@ietf.org; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 04:02:02 -0500 Message-ID: <20031128090201.6909.qmail@web13102.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [202.56.207.218] by web13102.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 01:02:01 PST Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 01:02:01 -0800 (PST) From: "R. Ragupathy" To: manet@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <20031127143300.11214.37470.Mailman@www1.ietf.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [manet] coverage area of omini antanna in ns2 Reg Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Hai friends, I am working in ns-2 simulator. I wanted to know how much distance a node can cover the transmission/receiving. They are dependend on Tx, Rx defined by the API in terms of lamda. Is there any formula to find the distance of coverage? waiting for reply Yours ===== R.Ragupathy Lecturer Department Of Computer Science & Engg. Annamalai University Tamil Nadu - 608002 India. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Nov 28 05:17:47 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA21945 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 05:17:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APfgm-0007OB-Ka for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 05:17:30 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hASAHSCP028397 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 05:17:28 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APfgm-0007Nw-CF for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 05:17:28 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA21906 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 05:17:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APfgi-0006pp-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 05:17:24 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APfgi-0006pm-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 05:17:24 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APfgN-0007GZ-HH; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 05:17:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APfgC-0007Ed-CY for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 05:16:53 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA21739 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 05:16:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APfg8-0006il-00 for manet@ietf.org; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 05:16:49 -0500 Received: from odin.unik.no ([193.156.96.7]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APfg8-0006iL-00 for manet@ietf.org; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 05:16:48 -0500 Received: from freya.unik.no ([193.156.96.215]) by odin.unik.no with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #12) id 1APffT-0000Pm-00; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 11:16:07 +0100 Received: from leka.unik.no ([193.156.97.98] helo=unik.no) by freya.unik.no with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #12) id 1APffS-0004c5-00; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 11:16:06 +0100 Message-ID: <3FC7209F.2010103@unik.no> Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 11:17:03 +0100 From: Frank Li User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020830 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, no MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mineo Takai , zhifeili@pmail.ntu.edu.sg CC: manet@ietf.org Subject: Re: [manet] Simulating 802.11b and g References: <3FC38445.7050802@cs.ucla.edu> <3FC5FAAE.6060307@unik.no> <3FC65029.5050607@cs.ucla.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Mineo, Zhifei, So what I conclude on receiver-sensitivity is that it is a threshold for transmission range. Obviously the transmission ranges in any card specifications are not calculated from the two ray model. Which model do they use? Or the ranges are measured in real life? Do you know any concrete values of PMD_ED and PMD_CS for any card? Moreover, is the PMD_ED threshold mainly used in the presence of non-DSSS or non-802.11 equipments ? >> >> So you mean the PLCP header can be correctly decoded if the received >> signal is strong enough, even though the bit sequence is not >> synchronized? > > > No, if the card misses the beginning of signal (preamble), it cannot > decode the frame. > I feel it is still possible to decode the PLCP header in this case. If the serial input bit sequence matches any predefined header pattern , the correction between them may result in a high enough value, thus the receiver interprets that a specific type of header is decoded. Frank _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Nov 28 19:18:43 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA17266 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 19:18:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APsob-0003F2-69 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 19:18:26 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAT0IPJ7012454 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 19:18:25 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APsob-0003En-0f for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 19:18:25 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA17260 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 19:18:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APsoX-0003xu-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 19:18:22 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APsoX-0003xr-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 19:18:21 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APsoD-0003Dk-EC; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 19:18:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APso0-0003DS-Rb for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 19:17:49 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA17253 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 19:17:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APsnz-0003xV-00 for manet@ietf.org; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 19:17:47 -0500 Received: from kiwi.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APsny-0003xN-00 for manet@ietf.org; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 19:17:46 -0500 Received: from cs.ucla.edu (Amber.CS.UCLA.EDU [131.179.120.73]) by kiwi.cs.ucla.edu (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.11.7/UCLACS-5.2) with ESMTP id hAT0GRi07112; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 16:16:27 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3FC7E5F4.7030305@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 16:19:00 -0800 From: Mineo Takai User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Frank Li CC: zhifeili@pmail.ntu.edu.sg, manet@ietf.org Subject: Re: [manet] Simulating 802.11b and g References: <3FC38445.7050802@cs.ucla.edu> <3FC5FAAE.6060307@unik.no> <3FC65029.5050607@cs.ucla.edu> <3FC7209F.2010103@unik.no> In-Reply-To: <3FC7209F.2010103@unik.no> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Frank, My comments are inline. Frank Li wrote: > Hi Mineo, Zhifei, > > So what I conclude on receiver-sensitivity is that it is a threshold for > transmission range. I would not conclude that way. Receiver sensitivities on the data sheets show (probably) the best performance of specific products. Minimum requirements of PMD_ED and sensitivity are specified in the standard. Actual thresholds used to determine CCA status and reception of packets are somewhere in between and implementation dependent (not publicly available). > Obviously the transmission ranges in any card > specifications are not calculated from the two ray model. Which model do > they use? Or the ranges are measured in real life? I think they are based on measurements. But I don't know what typical indoor / open environments imply, and we cannot use these values to calculate the thresholds of our interest backwards. > Do you know any concrete values of PMD_ED and PMD_CS for any card? > Moreover, is the PMD_ED threshold mainly used in the presence of > non-DSSS or non-802.11 equipments ? The highest value of PMD_ED is specified in the standard. PMD_CS is not. If the receiver is synchronized with a particular signal, there is little difference between 802.11 signals and noise / (non-802.11) interference. >>> So you mean the PLCP header can be correctly decoded if the received >>> signal is strong enough, even though the bit sequence is not >>> synchronized? >> >> No, if the card misses the beginning of signal (preamble), it cannot >> decode the frame. > > I feel it is still possible to decode the PLCP header in this case. If > the serial input bit sequence matches any predefined header pattern , > the correction between them may result in a high enough value, thus the > receiver interprets that a specific type of header is decoded. The contents of PLCP preamble is predefined and known to the receiver, but the PLCP header carries data (information) unknown to the receiver. So, once the receiver misses the preamble, it cannot decode the PLCP header or following data correctly. Mineo > > Frank > > > > > _______________________________________________ > manet mailing list > manet@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Sun Nov 30 01:17:34 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA09763 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 01:17:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AQKtQ-0005U3-US for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 01:17:18 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAU6HGxd021073 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 01:17:16 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AQKtQ-0005To-PE for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 01:17:16 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA09757 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 01:17:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AQKtN-0000zc-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 01:17:13 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AQKtN-0000zY-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 01:17:13 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AQKtB-0005S7-1Y; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 01:17:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AQKsQ-0005Rb-Kq for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 01:16:14 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA09730 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 01:16:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AQKsN-0000x3-00 for manet@ietf.org; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 01:16:11 -0500 Received: from noya.bupt.edu.cn ([202.112.96.2]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AQKsM-0000x0-00 for manet@ietf.org; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 01:16:10 -0500 Received: from MSRA-vs3055-3 ([202.108.85.198]) (authenticated bits=0) by noya.bupt.edu.cn (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAU6Fm7x005862 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 14:15:57 +0800 (CST) Message-Id: <200311300615.hAU6Fm7x005862@noya.bupt.edu.cn> From: "=?us-ascii?Q?=D7=DE=CA=CB=BA=E9?=" Reply-To: hoyli@bupt.edu.cn To: "manet@ietf.org" Organization: =?us-ascii?Q?=B1=B1=BE=A9=D3=CA=B5=E7=B4=F3=D1=A7=B9=FA=BC=D2=D6=D8=B5=E3=CA=B5=D1=E9=CA=D2=BF=ED=B4=F8=CD=F8=D6=D0=D0=C4?= X-mailer: Foxmail 4.2 [cn] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 14:16:39 +0800 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [manet] Multi-rate on 802.11b? Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable hi, =09I have been working on muli-rate of 802.11 and I have read from= waveLan White Paper that: at the same BER, in the closed environment, the range of 11Mbps,= 5.5Mbps, 2Mbps and 1Mbps are as following: 25m, 35m, 40m, 50m. =09 Let us just look at 5.5Mbps, it's range is 35m, and just 5m= farther(namely 40m), the rate is cut down to 2Mbps. Is this true= in reality? How does they get the data? Can anybody show me some= data of other kinds of 802.11 Cards? (i have googled for it, but= didn't find any other cards that given detailed data about= different data rates.) =09Thanks in advance. =09 =A1=A1=A1=A1 =A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1 =09=09=09=09 =A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1Shihong Zou =A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1hoyli@bupt.edu.cn =A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A12003-11-30 _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet From exim@www1.ietf.org Sun Nov 30 22:04:37 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA21868 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 22:04:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AQeMH-0003WK-6X for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 22:04:22 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hB134LaZ013531 for manet-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 22:04:21 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AQeMH-0003WA-01 for manet-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 22:04:21 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA21845 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 22:04:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AQeMD-0001bB-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 22:04:17 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AQeMD-0001b7-00 for manet-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 22:04:17 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AQeLx-0003V4-Bf; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 22:04:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AQeKy-0003UT-6H for manet@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 22:03:00 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA21824 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 22:02:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AQeKv-0001aC-00 for manet@ietf.org; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 22:02:57 -0500 Received: from gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.120.84]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AQeKu-0001a1-00 for manet@ietf.org; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 22:02:56 -0500 Received: from user-38lc06g.dialup.mindspring.com ([209.86.0.208] helo=erg.sri.com) by gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1AQeKq-0001DP-00; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 19:02:52 -0800 Message-ID: <3FCAAF5A.2020306@erg.sri.com> Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 19:02:50 -0800 From: Richard Ogier User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011128 Netscape6/6.2.1 (emach0202) X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Dearlove, Chris (UK)" CC: MANET Subject: Re: [manet] Question regarding Mobility References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: manet-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: manet-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chris, You are right. For the "cloned square" argument to work (to prove the node position is uniformly distributed), the node movements must not only be independent of position, but they must also be statistically symmetric in the two axes. (This is because each cloned square is some reflection of the original square.) Also, the node must choose a new random direction every step. E.g, it cannot choose a random direction initially and always travel in that direction, since then it could still end up near one of the four sides. Richard Dearlove, Chris (UK) wrote: >>>>Actually, we only need to consider a single node, and >>>> >>show that it is >> >>>>uniformly distributed in the square. Thus, even though Philippe's >>>>explanation is accurate, I don't think it is necessary to >>>> >>talk about >> >>>>a Poisson distribution. Allowing the single node to >>>> >>travel straight >> >>>>through boundaries, we only need to show that it is uniformly >>>>distributed in whatever "clone" of the square it happens to be in >>>>at any time. I think this follows simply because the node is >>>>initially placed uniformly, and its movements are independent of >>>>its location. >>>> >>>It doesn't travel through walls, it bounces off them, so we need to >>>apply some reflections, and we need basic symmetry >>> >>properties (left/right, >> >>>up/down). >>> >>>Otherwise consider a node which always picks its next destination a >>>short distance away to the right, regardless of position. >>> >>It will keep >> >>>hitting the right wall, bouncing, doing the same again and always be >>>close to the right wall, i.e. not uniform. >>> >>Good point. But I am talking about the probability >>distribution at any >>point in time. >> > >So am I. Suppose that all nodes have the above skewed distribution >of movement. Then, regardless of initial uniform distribution, all >will end up near the right wall, not uniformly distributed. > >>Even if the node never moves, it's position is still >>uniform because it was placed that way. >> > >Not moving is symmetric! > >Of course the main point you make is important: you need a uniform >initial distribution. I think that and symmetry of movement (in >two axes) is then sufficient for a uniform distribution at all >future times. I haven't rigorously proved it however (a proof >would be based on equivalent positions, with reflection). > >******************************************************************** >This email and any attachments are confidential to the intended >recipient and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended >recipient please delete it from your system and notify the sender. >You should not copy it or use it for any purpose nor disclose or >distribute its contents to any other person. >******************************************************************** > _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet