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From: "abdusyarif" <abdusyarif@cizinet.org>
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Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 16:34:14 +0700
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Subject: [manet] Help: Problem AODV-UU in ns-2.27
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Hi all,
   I'm trying to recompile AODV-UU 0.8 in NS-2.27 at
my computer that is:
   - Linux Mandrake v9.2
   - gcc version 3.3.1=20
   - Kernel 2.4.21
=20
   My problems are:=20
1. When I try to recompile NS-2, it show this error:
   .....
   .....
   [emulate/netpcap.cc] can't convert ph -> ...line
344
  =20
2. When I run a simulation, it's OK for other=20
simulations which not use AODV-UU. But when I run a
simulation which using AODV-UU, it show this error :
   [user@localhost scenario]$ ns wireless1-aodv-uu.tcl
   num nodes 3.
   Wrong node routing agent !

What's wrong?=20
Thanks.

Best Regards,
Abdusy Syarif



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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"COLOR: #000000; FONT-FAMILY: ">
<DIV>Hi all,<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; I'm trying to recompile AODV-UU 0.8 in =
NS-2.27=20
at<BR>my computer that is:<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; - Linux Mandrake =
v9.2<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
- gcc version 3.3.1 <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; - Kernel 2.4.21<BR> =
<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; My=20
problems are: <BR>1. When I try to recompile NS-2, it show this=20
error:<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; .....<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; .....<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
[emulate/netpcap.cc] can't convert ph -&gt; =
...line<BR>344<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
<BR>2. When I run a simulation, it's OK for other <BR>simulations =
which&nbsp;not=20
use AODV-UU. But when I run a<BR>simulation which using AODV-UU, it show =
this=20
error :<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; [user@localhost scenario]$ ns=20
wireless1-aodv-uu.tcl<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; num nodes 3.<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; Wrong =
node=20
routing agent !<BR><BR>What's wrong? <BR>Thanks.<BR><BR>Best =
Regards,<BR>Abdusy=20
Syarif<BR></DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>
<P></P></BODY></HTML>

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Subject: [manet] AODV-UU 0.9 released.
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Just want to announce that a new version of AODV-UU is available from=20
our webpage:

http://www.docs.uu.se/scanet/aodv

Version 0.9 features quite large changes in the interface towards the=20
OS. Kernel based forwarding is now implemented (which translates to=20
faster packet handling).

Erik Nordstr=F6m
Uppsala University

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From: Marcel Castro <marcelcastrobr@gmail.com>
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Subject: [manet] Segmentation fault running Insignia at Ns2.1b1
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Hi ns-users,

   I'm trying to run Insignia
(http://comet.ctr.columbia.edu/insignia/ns_source_code.html) code at
Ns2.1b1, but when I run a script with  a simulation time greater that
100 seconds,  segmentation fault error occurs.
  I've tried to degub this problem using gdb (Valgrind debuger)  but I
couldn't have any successful.
  Could someone help me.
  I will be glad with any sugestion.
  Regards
Marcel Castro

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Need MANET Experts at Boeing in Southern California:
If you (or someone you know) who is a MANET expert and is looking for
opportunities in Southern California, please visit www.boeing.com to see
job listings to apply.
=20
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From manet-bounces@ietf.org  Thu Dec  2 21:10:11 2004
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Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 19:48:49 +0000 (GMT)
From: l s <quantumparadox@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [manet] where does OLSR loss most occur in lightly loaded
	networks?
To: Tao Lin <tlin_mcmaster@yahoo.ca>
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Hi Tao,

>=20
> The 10-second buffer does not mean that the packet
> dealy is very long.  In other words, this does not
> necessary mean that VoIP will fail with such a
> 10-second buffer.  The real bottleneck is the actual
> end-to-end delay that occurs in your network.  In
> fact, AODV does have small end-to-end delays
> according to my simulations.  This is because AODV
> fixes broken routes immediately after a transmission
> fails.  The new shortest route is up fairly quick in
> AODV if the network size is reasonable.
>=20
Indeed.  With my results, I have noticed that the
end-to-end delay is much greater in AODV than OLSR
(four times greater), using the implementation of OLSR
without Link Layer Notification to detect linkbreaks.
(20 applications running (CBR 4 packets per sec)
in the network of 50 nodes moving Random Way Point in
1500x300 with max speed of 20m per sec)

I think this can also be explained by the effect of
keeping a 10s buffer in AODV whereas OLSR would drop a
datagram.  So OLSR has a much higher loss but but also
a smaller end-to-end delay as it doesn't count those
packets that were dropped.

With the OLSR its an issue that a lot of packets are
lost, but with AODV in my simulations then a lot of
old packets stay in circulation which if they are part
of a flow with a low delay or jitter requirement then
they will just end up adding to congestion
pointlessly, and overflowing the queues.

Cheers,
   Lee -S-
   CCSR, Uni of Surrey, UK.



	=09
___________________________________________________________=20
Moving house? Beach bar in Thailand? New Wardrobe? Win =A310k with Yahoo!=
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From manet-bounces@ietf.org  Fri Dec  3 01:24:20 2004
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From: "Tao Lin" <taolin@vt.edu>
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Subject: Re: [manet] where does OLSR loss most occur in lightly loaded
	networks?
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 21:22:51 -0500
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Hi Lee,

Glad to see that now you can explain your simulation results and this does
match what I have in my PhD dissertation.

Another thing I want to point out is that the ARP protocol in MAC layer ns2
implementation has a bug.  This bug may lead to VERY long delay for one-hop
transmission in a MANET.  Basically, an ARP class in ns2 sends out one ARP
request and never times out or re-tries if there is no ARP reply comes back.
The outgoing packet triggered that ARP request is buffered unless another
packet to the same next hop is ready for transmission.  Therefore if a
neighbor moves away right before an ARP is sent for this neighbor's MAC
address, the trigger packet can be hold up to a very long time, say
1,000,000 seconds. If we assume that that neighbor moves back and somehow
replies another node's ARP request, the buffered packet can be sent to the
neighbor with a 1,000,000 seconds one hop delay.  You can construct a simple
ns2 simulation script to see this bug.  Although this does not happen
frequently, but one such delay can change your simulation results
dramatically.  You can refer to my PhD dissertaion on experince on MANET
simulations for this kind of bugs and fair comparison assumptions.

Have a nice day!

 Tao Lin, Post-Doc
 ECE Department, McMaster University
 www.ece.mcmaster.ca/~tlin
Hi Tao,

>
> The 10-second buffer does not mean that the packet
> dealy is very long.  In other words, this does not
> necessary mean that VoIP will fail with such a
> 10-second buffer.  The real bottleneck is the actual
> end-to-end delay that occurs in your network.  In
> fact, AODV does have small end-to-end delays
> according to my simulations.  This is because AODV
> fixes broken routes immediately after a transmission
> fails.  The new shortest route is up fairly quick in
> AODV if the network size is reasonable.
>
Indeed.  With my results, I have noticed that the
end-to-end delay is much greater in AODV than OLSR
(four times greater), using the implementation of OLSR
without Link Layer Notification to detect linkbreaks.
(20 applications running (CBR 4 packets per sec)
in the network of 50 nodes moving Random Way Point in
1500x300 with max speed of 20m per sec)

I think this can also be explained by the effect of
keeping a 10s buffer in AODV whereas OLSR would drop a
datagram.  So OLSR has a much higher loss but but also
a smaller end-to-end delay as it doesn't count those
packets that were dropped.

With the OLSR its an issue that a lot of packets are
lost, but with AODV in my simulations then a lot of
old packets stay in circulation which if they are part
of a flow with a low delay or jitter requirement then
they will just end up adding to congestion
pointlessly, and overflowing the queues.

Cheers,
   Lee -S-
   CCSR, Uni of Surrey, UK.


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From: "Dearlove, Christopher (UK)" <chris.dearlove@baesystems.com>
Subject: RE: [manet] where does OLSR loss most occur in lightly loadednetworks?
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> > The 10-second buffer does not mean that the packet
> > dealy is very long.  In other words, this does not
> > necessary mean that VoIP will fail with such a
> > 10-second buffer.  The real bottleneck is the actual
> > end-to-end delay that occurs in your network.  In
> > fact, AODV does have small end-to-end delays
> > according to my simulations.  This is because AODV
> > fixes broken routes immediately after a transmission
> > fails.  The new shortest route is up fairly quick in
> > AODV if the network size is reasonable.
>=0D
> Indeed.  With my results, I have noticed that the
> end-to-end delay is much greater in AODV than OLSR
> (four times greater), using the implementation of OLSR
> without Link Layer Notification to detect linkbreaks.
> (20 applications running (CBR 4 packets per sec)
> in the network of 50 nodes moving Random Way Point in
> 1500x300 with max speed of 20m per sec)
>=0D
> I think this can also be explained by the effect of
> keeping a 10s buffer in AODV whereas OLSR would drop a
> datagram.  So OLSR has a much higher loss but but also
> a smaller end-to-end delay as it doesn't count those
> packets that were dropped.
>=0D
> With the OLSR its an issue that a lot of packets are
> lost, but with AODV in my simulations then a lot of
> old packets stay in circulation which if they are part
> of a flow with a low delay or jitter requirement then
> they will just end up adding to congestion
> pointlessly, and overflowing the queues.

There's a serious issue of a lack of a level playing field
in comparing reactive and proactive protocols, not just
here. (I was conscious of this in the only results with
my name on in the open literature.) Reactive protocols queue
packets because they suffer from major packet loss if they
don't, especially in the sorts of scenarios that are
typically simulated (short data flows to reduce time etc.)
while they are waiting to establish routes. With queuing
this becomes delay rather than loss. Proactive protocols
don't queue packets because they can live without it.
But they could, and then they could improve their packet
loss results - at the expense of introducing delay. This
has been suggested by Mase & Clausen in a recent ID that
produced some disagreements in San Diego about whether
queuing packets whilst waiting for routing is acceptable.
There may be a difference in acceptability for queuing
before a route is first established, and queuing for packet
salvaging (some would accept the former but not the latter,
others both, others neither - at least that's the impression I
got). If you don't queue you might want to separate different
reasons for packet loss (waiting for a route, congestion,
lack of a route) but that's difficult of course (but maybe
not impossible).

********************************************************************
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We studied TCP performance over a real 802.11b ad hoc network testbed
extensively. We studied topologies of up to 6 hops. We used Cisco cards,
whose antennae were covered with copper to scale down their range.

Several repetitions of the experiments were conducted, and the results we=
re
subjected to statistical analysis. We measured throughput, delay and dela=
y
jitter and collected several other dumps.

Among other things we found that switching off RTS-CTS handshake always
improved throughput. There are several factors that come into play when=20
RTS-CTS
and carrier sensing are both on, and it is difficult to argue=20
qualitatively what the net
impact on throughput would be. Please see page 57 of the document=20
referred below for a discussion.


To reduce end to end delay and delay jitter other mechanisms are
needed. We study 'congestion window clamping' and find that it helps
tremendously. We suggest clamping the congestion window of each flow to 3=
/2
times the number of hops for that flow.

We also study the effect of the SACK option, MTU, queue lengths, MAC retr=
y
limits, MAC data rates and other parameters.

A paper is under preparation. Meanwhile please see chapter 3 of my=20
thesis which
can be found at:
http://black.csl.uiuc.edu/~prkumar/ps_files/04_07_kawadia_thesis.pdf


Thanks
-vikas

Vikas Kawadia
BBN Technologies


------------------------------------------------------------------------

    * /To/: "Farrag, Osama" <Osama.Farrag at jhuapl.edu
      <mailto:Osama.Farrag@DOMAIN.HIDDEN>>
    * /Subject/: Re: [manet] TCP Retransmission and Goodput
    * /From/: Ram Ramanathan <ramanath at bbn.com
      <mailto:ramanath@DOMAIN.HIDDEN>>
    * /Date/: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 18:23:07 -0500
    * /Cc/: manet at ietf.org <mailto:manet@DOMAIN.HIDDEN>
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------------------------------------------------------------------------
Is this really true in practice -- that 802.11 networks have better=20
goodput when RTS/CTS is turned on?

Researchers doing experimental work with testbeds more often than not=20
report better throughput with RTS/CTS turned off (at least those I've=20
spoken to), hidden terminals notwithstanding.

While RTS/CTS solves the hidden terminal problem, it does introduce=20
exposed terminals, and the overhead of the handshake. And in some cases,=20
the negatives may be more than the positives. For instance, at high data=20
rates (e.g. 54 Mbps) the time for RTS/CTS as a fraction of total packet=20
transfer time gets to be significant, especially if RTS/CTS are sent at=20
lower data rate as is typical.

I'm not disputing your statement, but do you (or anyone on this list)=20
know of any study that corrobarates this statement? Are there=20
comprehensive simulation or testbed based studies on this and does one=20
differ from the other in conclusions? If so, I'd appreciate a pointer.

It would be good for the community to really understand the benefits of=20
RTS/CTS for ad hoc networks.

cheers,


-Ram


On Nov 23, 2004, at 5:23 PM, Farrag, Osama wrote:


Ehsan,


=20


    There could be many factors, in general 802.11 networks perform
    better in terms goodput when RTS/CTS handshake is used.

=20


    a) RTS/CTS mode allows nodes to detect collision faster than in
    Data/ACK mode because Data messages are much longer than RTS
    messages. So the channel revert to idle state faster and nodes will
    start contending again in shorter time.

    b) Probability of collisions from Hidden node problem is reduced
    when RTS/CTS handshake is used. Less collision results in better
    throughput.

=20


Hope that helps.


=20


Best Regards


Osama Farrag


Johns Hopkins University/ APL


=20


    -----Original Message-----
    From:manet-bounces at ietf.org [mailto:manet-bounces at ietf.org]On
    Behalf OfEhsan Hamadani
    Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2004 4:34 PM
    To:manet at ietf.org
    Subject:[manet] TCP Retransmission and Goodput

=20


Hi all,


=20


    I am simulating a 4 hop static network with one TCP flow between the
    sender and receiver. There are 2 scenarios: One scenario (let=92s cal=
l
    it scenario 1) is based on RTS/CTS message exchange for packets
    larger than 1024 Bytes and the other one (scenario 2) does not use
    any RTS/CTS to send data over network.

    When I monitor thebehaviourof TCP in the network, I come across the
    following issue:

=20


    While scenario 1 has less average congestion window size and flight
    size (number of sent and unacknowledged data in network) with higher
    number of TCP retransmission in comparison to scenario 2, the
    goodput of scenario 1 is greater than scenario 2!!!

=20


    For measuring the goodput, I am monitoring the sent sequence number
    by sender. So, for instance, at time 50sec, the sender in scenario 1
    is sending packet with sequence number 10000 while the sender in
    scenario 2 is sending packet with sequence number 6000.

=20


Does anyone know the reason behind this?


=20


Thanks for your help


=20


Ehsan


=20


-----------------------------------------


Ehsan Hamadani, PhD student


SchoolofEngineeringand Math Science


City University


London,EC1V 0HB


United Kingdom


=20


Office:+44 (0)207 040 3886


=20


=20
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From: "Christopher P. Rigano" <cpr@nc.rr.com>
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Subject: RE: [manet] Are 802.11e, 802.16a and 802.20 used in MANETS
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Greetings, are these MACs used in MANETS? 
 
Many thanks,
 
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<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Greetings, are these MACs =
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MANETS? <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

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From manet-bounces@ietf.org  Fri Dec  3 19:55:05 2004
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From: "Tao Lin" <taolin@vt.edu>
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Subject: RE: [manet] where does OLSR loss most occur in lightly loadednetworks?
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Hi  Christopher ,

Yes, you are right about the fair comparison assumptions.

As I pointed out in my previous email, I summarized issues on fair
comparisons among leading MANET routing protocols in my PhD dissertation (I
am not trying to push my work, just want to share my experiences in MANET
simulations).  Without using the same set of assumptions, comparisons are
basis.

  Tao

> There's a serious issue of a lack of a level playing field
> in comparing reactive and proactive protocols, not just
> here. (I was conscious of this in the only results with
> my name on in the open literature.) Reactive protocols queue
> packets because they suffer from major packet loss if they
> don't, especially in the sorts of scenarios that are
> typically simulated (short data flows to reduce time etc.)
> while they are waiting to establish routes. With queuing
> this becomes delay rather than loss. Proactive protocols
> don't queue packets because they can live without it.
> But they could, and then they could improve their packet
> loss results - at the expense of introducing delay. This
> has been suggested by Mase & Clausen in a recent ID that
> produced some disagreements in San Diego about whether
> queuing packets whilst waiting for routing is acceptable.
> There may be a difference in acceptability for queuing
> before a route is first established, and queuing for packet
> salvaging (some would accept the former but not the latter,
> others both, others neither - at least that's the impression I
> got). If you don't queue you might want to separate different
> reasons for packet loss (waiting for a route, congestion,
> lack of a route) but that's difficult of course (but maybe
> not impossible).


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From: "Tao Lin" <taolin@vt.edu>
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Subject: RE: [manet] Are 802.11e, 802.16a and 802.20 used in MANETS
Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 19:28:36 -0500
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Hi Chris,

If you check out those standards, you will figure out whether they can be
used for MANETs.  For example, IEEE 802.11e is based on IEEE 802.11b.
Therefore, you should be able to use it in MANETs.  IEEE 802.16 MAC protocol
is based on TDMA, which means there must be a master to allocation time slot
for all.   This is not possible in a MANET.

 Tao

> Greetings, are these MACs used in MANETS?
> Many thanks,
> Chris


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To: "Dearlove, Christopher (UK)" <chris.dearlove@baesystems.com>,
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From: mase <mase@ie.niigata-u.ac.jp>
Subject: RE: [manet] where does OLSR loss most occur in lightly loadednetworks?
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Hi, Christopher,

At 10:11 04/12/03 +0000, Dearlove, Christopher (UK) wrote:
>Proactive protocols
>don't queue packets because they can live without it.
>But they could, and then they could improve their packet
>loss results - at the expense of introducing delay. This
>has been suggested by Mase & Clausen in a recent ID that
>produced some disagreements in San Diego about whether
>queuing packets whilst waiting for routing is acceptable.
>There may be a difference in acceptability for queuing
>before a route is first established, and queuing for packet
>salvaging (some would accept the former but not the latter,
>others both, others neither - at least that's the impression I
>got).

I agree with your observation as a co-author of the ID cited above. The 
link buffering toghther with packet restoratio works to increase delay and 
to decrease packet loss. The packets in the link buffer wait to be sent 
until the corresponding  route entries are apdated. The amount of delay 
depends on the hello interval, node density and the size of link buffer and 
these parameters should be set approproately based on application and scenarios.

Cheers,
Kenichi




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From: "Andras Varga" <andras@whale.hit.bme.hu>
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Subject: Re: [manet] need help on tools..... 
Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2004 10:37:58 +0100
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Hello Parag,

Another choice would be the Mobility Framework
(http://mobility-fw.sourceforge.net/) for OMNeT++ (www.omnetpp.org). There's
a precompiled demo at
http://www.omnest.com/show.php?page=download&right=right2.

Best regards,
Andras

> Hi all,
> I am an undergraduate student of Computer science and engineering.I need
> help on the various tools that can be used for the simulation purpose in
> my project. Please explain me these tools NS-2 and OPNET. I have to choose
> one from these two tools for my simulation purpose.Please provide
> information about :
> 1. Which one is better?
> 2. How do they work both OPNET and NS-2 ?
>
> Look further to recieve soon response.
>
> Best Regards,
> Parag Goswami
> http://www.geocities.com/paragboom2k
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
>  The all-new My Yahoo! ? Get yours free!
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From: Thomas Clausen <T.Clausen@computer.org>
Subject: Re: [manet] where does OLSR loss most occur in lightly loadednetworks?
Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2004 18:21:31 +0100
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Hi Christopher, Tao, Mase & everybody else,

I obviously agree with what has been said by Chris & Mase.

One of the motives of the I-D that Mase and I released was indeed to 
try to "level the playing field" a little by suggesting that the link 
buffering and restoration mechanism be discussed and evaluated 
separately -- with the outcome of discovering if the techniques were 
applicable in MANETs (which seemed to be the item of 
disagreement/discussion in San Diego) and if so, how they would apply 
to both reactive and proactive protocols.

In addition to the trade-off Chris brought up (delay vs. loss), Alex 
Zinin brought the concern of where and how to buffer as a function of 
the traffic parameters up: large-bitrate flows imply requirements for 
potentially large buffers (in source or intermediate nodes) -- and its 
own set of problems.

--thomas

On 4 Dec 2004, at 03:10, mase wrote:

> Hi, Christopher,
>
> At 10:11 04/12/03 +0000, Dearlove, Christopher (UK) wrote:
>> Proactive protocols
>> don't queue packets because they can live without it.
>> But they could, and then they could improve their packet
>> loss results - at the expense of introducing delay. This
>> has been suggested by Mase & Clausen in a recent ID that
>> produced some disagreements in San Diego about whether
>> queuing packets whilst waiting for routing is acceptable.
>> There may be a difference in acceptability for queuing
>> before a route is first established, and queuing for packet
>> salvaging (some would accept the former but not the latter,
>> others both, others neither - at least that's the impression I
>> got).
>
> I agree with your observation as a co-author of the ID cited above. 
> The link buffering toghther with packet restoratio works to increase 
> delay and to decrease packet loss. The packets in the link buffer wait 
> to be sent until the corresponding  route entries are apdated. The 
> amount of delay depends on the hello interval, node density and the 
> size of link buffer and these parameters should be set approproately 
> based on application and scenarios.
>
> Cheers,
> Kenichi
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> manet mailing list
> manet@ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet
>


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To: Andras Varga <andras@whale.hit.bme.hu>
Subject: Re: [manet] need help on tools..... 
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Parag,

You have many options for tools, and it really depends on what you are 
trying to do. NS-2 is the "standard" tool for academic research. I have a 
version called SNS which is exactly compatible with NS-2, but can run 
much larger simulations and can run them much quicker (minutes instead of 
hours or days). OPNET and GloMoSim are also somewhat popular, and may be 
somewhat easier to learn to use, but possibly less powerful than SNS and 
NS-2. They both have the same very slow performance problems that NS-2 
has. SWANS/Jist is another Cornell simulator with good performance, and is 
probably the easiest to learn to use, but 
has less support for all the hundreds of protocols and scenarios included 
in SNS, since it is very new. The amount of documentation also varies alot 
between these tools. So it depends on your situation, and what you will be 
doing with the tools, and how much you will need to know about the 
simulator to do your experiments.

You can find SNS at http://www.cs.cornell.edu/People/egs/sns/.

Regards,
Kevin

On Sat, 4 Dec 2004, Andras Varga wrote:
> Hello Parag,
> 
> Another choice would be the Mobility Framework
> (http://mobility-fw.sourceforge.net/) for OMNeT++ (www.omnetpp.org). There's
> a precompiled demo at
> http://www.omnest.com/show.php?page=download&right=right2.
> 
> Best regards,
> Andras
> 
> > Hi all,
> > I am an undergraduate student of Computer science and engineering.I need
> > help on the various tools that can be used for the simulation purpose in
> > my project. Please explain me these tools NS-2 and OPNET. I have to choose
> > one from these two tools for my simulation purpose.Please provide
> > information about :
> > 1. Which one is better?
> > 2. How do they work both OPNET and NS-2 ?
> >
> > Look further to recieve soon response.
> >
> > Best Regards,
> > Parag Goswami
> > http://www.geocities.com/paragboom2k
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> >  The all-new My Yahoo! ? Get yours free!
> > _______________________________________________
> > manet mailing list
> > manet at ietf.org
> > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> manet mailing list
> manet@ietf.org
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> 


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Date: Sat, 04 Dec 2004 12:17:31 -0800
From: gabriel montenegro <gab@sun.com>
Subject: Re: [manet] Path Accumulation in DyMO
In-reply-to: <5.2.0.9.2.20041119153535.034e9b30@pop.itd.nrl.navy.mil>
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I've been reading this thread to try to understand where DyMO might
be going in this respect. Not that I can tell yet, but I'd like to
suggest an additional consideration. As I recall during the presentation,
the idea is that DyMO would also support so-called wireless sensor
networks.

If this is true, then from the point of view of WSNs, things like
code size, complexity and power consumption move up in ranking within
the priority list.

At least some of these scenarios are heterogeneous in the sense that, the puniest of
devices will not be "routers" (in the IP sense of the word) spending all
their sorry lives as nothing but leaf nodes.

So such re-prioritization does not apply to *all* devices
in these network, because not all  are expected
to be downright "puny" (as *an* example, say, 2K ram, 32K code space).
But for those that are, it would be good to understand what additional code
size and complexity we're talking about here.

Does anybody have any clue as to what path accumulation implies when
implemented on leaf nodes versus routers in such manets (WSNs)?

Same question applies to DyMO in general, any ideas?

tnx,

-gabriel

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From manet-bounces@ietf.org  Sat Dec  4 22:08:29 2004
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	Sat, 04 Dec 2004 18:18:12 PST
Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2004 18:18:12 -0800 (PST)
From: Yang Xiao <yangxiao_acm@yahoo.com>
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Subject: [manet] Reviewer needed for Journal of Wireless Communications and
	Mobile Computing 
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I am currently handling about 100 journal paper submissions for
  (Wiley) Journal of Wireless Communications and Mobile Computing
  International Journal of Wireless and Mobile Computing

If anyone would like to help reviewing journal paper submissions for
above two journals, please let me know what topics you like listed as
follows. Thanks

Topics included (but not limited to)

Quality of Service support in the MAC layer
Channel access protocols in the MAC layer
Energy efficiency in the MAC layer 
Location and mobility management for cellular networks, mobile IP, IEEE
802.11 wireless LANs, and mobile ad hoc networks. 
Location and mobility models for future wireless networks 
Paging management for cellular networks and mobile IP 
Algorithms, designs and protocols for quality of service in future
wireless networks 
Integration of location management and quality of service for wireless
networks 
Integration of 3G and IEEE 802.11 wireless LANs 
Resource management and control algorithms for multimedia applications 
Performance model and analysis of management algorithms and protocols
Routing in Ad hoc networks


Thanks

Yang Xiao
yangxiao@ieee.org


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From: "Dearlove, Christopher (UK)" <chris.dearlove@baesystems.com>
Subject: RE: [manet] where does OLSR loss most occur in lightly loadednetworks?
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> In addition to the trade-off Chris brought up (delay vs. loss), Alex=0D
> Zinin brought the concern of where and how to buffer as a function of=0D
> the traffic parameters up: large-bitrate flows imply requirements for=0D
> potentially large buffers (in source or intermediate nodes)=0D
> -- and its own set of problems.

Also there is interaction with TCP. (Particularly mentioned at San
Diego, and I know Thomas and Mase know this, but I think it's worth
including it here.)

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Call for Papers WWIC 2005 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
3rd Intl. Conference on Wired/Wireless Internet Communications (WWIC 2005)
May 11-13 2005, Xanthi, Greece
http://www.wwic2005.org/
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Next generation mobile networks will be based on Internet core networks and
wireless access networks. The need for efficient merging of the wired and
wireless infrastructure as well as the new multimedia services and
applications of next generation networks call for novel network
architectures, protocols and traffic-related mechanisms. WWIC is addressing
research topics such as the design and evaluation of protocols, the
dynamics of the integration, the performance tradeoffs, the need for new
performance metrics, and cross-layer interactions. The goal of the
conference is to present high-quality results in the field, and to provide
a framework for research collaboration through focused discussions that
will designate future research efforts and directions. In this context, the
program committee will accept only a limited number of papers that meet the
criteria of originality, presentation quality and topic relevance. 
Proceedings will be  published by LNCS Springer. Selected best papers will
appear in a journal special issue. The specific journal will be 
announced prior to submission deadline.In addition, the best paper as well
as the runner up will be awarded at the conference, based on reviewer
comments and suggestions of the Technical Program Committee members. The
conference will open  with an invited keynote speech by Ian F. Akyldiz.  

Papers should address one of the following topics. 

- Network design and network planning 
- Traffic engineering 
- Traffic characterisation and modeling
- Mobile service level agreements / specification
- Simulation technologies for next generation mobile networks
- Transport protocols and congestion control 
- Cross layer interactions
- Mobility management
- End-to-end Quality of Service support
- Heterogeneous wireless access networks
- Integration and interworking of wired and wireless networks
- Performance evaluation of mobile and wireless networks and systems
- Handover techniques
- Wireless multimedia systems
- Service creation and management environments for mobile/wireless systems
- Resource management and admission control
- QoS signaling 
- QoS routing
- Wireless Multi-Hop Networks
- Economical issues of wireless networks
- Pricing, charging and accounting in wireless networks

Submission deadline    		December  6, 2004 
Notification of acceptance	January  31, 2005
Camera ready papers		February 28, 2005 
Conference			May   11-13, 2005 






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Hello ,

 

How to simulate a MANET using directional antenna. which part of the NS2 have to be changed or modified.

 

regards.,

kathir

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<P>Hello ,</P>
<P>&nbsp;</P>
<P>How to simulate a MANET using directional antenna. which part of the NS2 have to be changed or modified.</P>
<P>&nbsp;</P>
<P>regards.,</P>
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From manet-bounces@ietf.org  Mon Dec  6 23:48:14 2004
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	Mon, 06 Dec 2004 20:38:46 PST
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Subject: [manet] Physical Layer in NS
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Dear All,

I want to know how far NS can handle physical layer
simulation. Does anyone know about this ? Please, help
inform me. I want to do routing simulation related to
physical layer in MANETs using NS software. This is
the only software that I will use because this is
free.

Thanks in advance.
Sigit B. Wibowo


		
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From manet-bounces@ietf.org  Tue Dec  7 23:07:36 2004
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Subject: [manet] Jitter in MANETs
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Dear All,

I want to implement jitter as constraint of QoS
routing in MANETs. Does anyone have documents about
that ?

Thank you in advance.
Sigit B. Wibowo


		
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	Tue, 07 Dec 2004 23:46:20 PST
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Subject: [manet] call arrival rate and call holding times in ad hoc network
	simulations!
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Dear all,
=20
The call arrival rate is described as a poisson process and holding times=
 are exponentially distributed in a mobile ad hoc network. Isn't it? What=
 are the average values of the call arrival rate and call holding rate? C=
an anyone please let me know this? I am trying to simulate voice calls in=
 mobile ad hoc networks and i am not sure for how long i should have my c=
all on and how frequent should they be initiated. So any help will be gre=
atly appreciated. Also when i consider a voice call in ad hoc network; sh=
ould the voice packet generator ( i am using exponential packet generator=
 in ns-2 for this purpose) be attached to both the nodes involved in the =
call? If so, should they be sending packets at the same time or different=
? Why?
=20
Kindly do the needful at the earliest.
=20
Regards,
Raja.


	=09
---------------------------------
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<DIV>
<DIV>Dear all,</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>The call arrival rate is described as a poisson process and holding =
times are exponentially distributed in a mobile ad hoc network. Isn't it?=
 What are the average values of the call arrival rate and call holding ra=
te? Can anyone please let me know this? I am trying to simulate voice cal=
ls in mobile ad hoc networks and i am not sure for how long i should have=
 my call on and how frequent should they be initiated. So any help will b=
e greatly appreciated. Also when i consider a voice call in ad hoc networ=
k; should the voice packet generator ( i am using exponential packet gene=
rator in ns-2 for this purpose) be attached to both the nodes involved in=
 the call? If so, should they be sending packets at the same time or diff=
erent? Why?</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Kindly do the needful at the earliest.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Regards,</DIV>
<DIV>Raja.</DIV></DIV><p>
		<hr size=3D1>Do you Yahoo!?<br>=20
Meet the <a href=3D"http://my.yahoo.com">all-new My Yahoo!</a> =96 Try it=
 today!=20
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<P><BR>&nbsp;hi all</P>
<P>i am a student.i&nbsp;want to work on the Anticipated Route Maintenance Protocol.The area that i am interested is to "Reduce the number of control packets in the network while maintaining the Route".i am requesting you all to help me in getting the code for ARM protocol. if anybody has this code please send it to me.without this code i can't start working on my project.</P>
<P>thanks in advance</P>
<P><BR>Thanks &amp; Regards<BR>M.V.Sivannarayana<BR><BR><BR>Be great in act, as you are in thought</FONT> </P><br>&nbsp;<br><hr>Listen to Non Stop Music @ http://www.ragalahari.com<br></body></html>


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Subject: [manet] CFP: WiNMee Workshop. Paper submission deadline approaching
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(Our oppologies if you receive multiple copies of this CFP)


                          WiNMee Workshop
                          ---------------

                       http://www.winmee.org/

            1st workshop on Wireless Network Measurements
                     (co-located with WiOpt 2005)
                          April 3rd, 2005
                           Trento, Italy


The area of wireless networking has attracted a lot of interest in the recent
past. Nonetheless, evaluation of the performance of wireless networks and the
solutions that are designed to address the identified issues is usually based on
simulations. Only recently did researchers turn their attention to actual
testbeds for similar tasks. Actual wireless testbeds are likely to prove very
challenging environments to work with due to the unique properties of the
wireless medium (in contrast to the well explored area of wired measurements and
experimentation). The wireless medium is bound to behave differently depending
on the location of the testbed and reproducibility of results is no longer a
given. Lastly, solutions that have been previously proposed in the literature
may be infeasible in an operational environment if they require changes in the
network devices. As a result, effort has also been put into designing wireless
hardware where researchers can gain access to functionality that is not
typically exposed at the network driver level.

In this workshop we would like to solicit short, 6 pages, papers that report on
experiences obtained from operational wireless experiments in testbeds or the
field. Topics include:

     * operational experience on the performance of wireless networks
     * challenges with wireless measurements
     * experimental (in)validation of usually made assumptions in a wireless
       environment
     * metrics that would be required in a wireless network for performance
       evaluation or wireless network troubleshooting
     * experience from building/designing wireless networks
     * description of tools for building and/or managing wireless testbeds (e.g.
       wireless link emulation)
     * techniques for scaling the testbed
     * techniques for improving the repeatability of tests
     * techniques for validating the results obtained in the wireless testbed
     * methods for simplifying experiment setup and reconfiguration
     * mobility pattern implementation


Important Dates:
----------------

Submission deadline:            December 17, 2004
Notification deadline:          January 28, 2004
Camera-ready due:               February 18, 2005


Workshop chairs:
----------------

Lakshman Krishnamurthy          Intel
Konstantina Papagiannaki        Intel Research Cambridge


Technical Program Committee:
----------------------------

Elizabeth M. Belding-Royer,     UC Santa Barbara, U.S.A.
Andrew Campbell,                Columbia University, U.S.A.
Edward Knightly,                Rice University, U.S.A.
Lakshman Krishnamurthy,         Intel Corporation, U.S.A.
Josep Mangues,                  CTTC, Spain
Jitu Padhye,                    Microsoft Research, U.S.A.
Konstantina Papagiannaki,       Intel Research Cambridge, U.K.
Kave Salamatian,                LIP6, France
Aruna Seneviratne,              National ICT, Australia
Suresh Singh,                   Portland State University, U.S.A.
Leandros Tassiulas,             University of Thessaly, Greece


---
Imad AAD
WiOpt Workshops Publicity Chair

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From: "John P. Mullen" <jomullen@nmsu.edu>
To: "'Raja Sombhotla'" <rajagopal_452@yahoo.com>, <manet@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [manet] call arrival rate and call holding times in ad hoc
	networksimulations!
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Hi Raja,

 

It is commonly assumed that arrivals are Poisson and hold times are
exponential.  The Poisson arrivals are often borne up in practice, but
exponential service times may not be the case.  Because the call frequency
and duration distribution will depend upon the application (I mean,
"military," "police," "transportation," not a particular software
application), there is really no universally accepted traffic model.  If you
do not have a particular application in mind, I suggest you try a search for
papers discussing traffic models in MANETs and use them to motivate your
choice of values.  Also, explore performance over a reasonable range of
intensity values, since different applications may require different
capabilities.   

 

John Mullen

  _____  

From: manet-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:manet-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
Raja Sombhotla
Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 12:46 AM
To: manet@ietf.org
Subject: [manet] call arrival rate and call holding times in ad hoc
networksimulations!

 

Dear all,

 

The call arrival rate is described as a poisson process and holding times
are exponentially distributed in a mobile ad hoc network. Isn't it? What are
the average values of the call arrival rate and call holding rate? Can
anyone please let me know this? I am trying to simulate voice calls in
mobile ad hoc networks and i am not sure for how long i should have my call
on and how frequent should they be initiated. So any help will be greatly
appreciated. Also when i consider a voice call in ad hoc network; should the
voice packet generator ( i am using exponential packet generator in ns-2 for
this purpose) be attached to both the nodes involved in the call? If so,
should they be sending packets at the same time or different? Why?

 

Kindly do the needful at the earliest.

 

Regards,

Raja.

  _____  

Do you Yahoo!?
Meet the all-new My Yahoo! <http://my.yahoo.com>   Try it today! 


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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Hi =
Raja,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>It is commonly assumed that =
arrivals are
Poisson and hold times are exponential.&nbsp; The Poisson arrivals are =
often
borne up in practice, but exponential service times may not be the =
case.&nbsp; Because
the call frequency and duration distribution will depend upon the =
application
(I mean, &#8220;military,&#8221; &#8220;police,&#8221; =
&#8220;transportation,&#8221;
not a particular software application), there is really no universally =
accepted
traffic model.&nbsp; If you do not have a particular application in =
mind, I
suggest you try a search for papers discussing traffic models in MANETs =
and use
them to motivate your choice of values.&nbsp; Also, explore performance =
over a
reasonable range of intensity values, since different applications may =
require
different capabilities.&nbsp; &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>John =
Mullen<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>

<hr size=3D3 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font =
size=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
manet-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:manet-bounces@ietf.org] <b><span
style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Raja Sombhotla<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, December =
08, 2004
12:46 AM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> manet@ietf.org<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> [manet] call =
arrival rate
and call holding times in ad hoc =
networksimulations!</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>Dear all,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>The call arrival rate is described as a poisson process and =
holding
times are exponentially distributed in a mobile ad hoc network. Isn't =
it? What
are the average values of the call arrival rate and call holding rate? =
Can
anyone please let me know this? I am trying to simulate voice calls in =
mobile
ad hoc networks and i am not sure for how long i should have my call on =
and how
frequent should they be initiated. So any help will be greatly =
appreciated.
Also when i consider a voice call in ad hoc network; should the voice =
packet
generator ( i am using exponential packet generator in ns-2 for this =
purpose)
be attached to both the nodes involved in the call? If so, should they =
be
sending packets at the same time or different? =
Why?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>Kindly do the needful at the =
earliest.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>Raja.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

</div>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>

<hr size=3D1 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>Do you Yahoo!?<br>
Meet the <a href=3D"http://my.yahoo.com">all-new My Yahoo!</a> &nbsp;Try =
it
today! <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

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Folks-

 As you all know we're now in the process of rechartering the WG. As part of
 this process we will also be adding Ian Chakeres as the new co-chair replacing
 Scott Corson. After years of service as MANET WG co-chair, Scott decided to
 step down. I'd like to thank Scott for his contributions to the community!

 Included below in this message is the proposed new MANET WG charter that we've
 developed with the WG chairs and that I put on the IESG agenda for next week.
 If you have any comments, please let us know.
 
-- 
Alex
http://www.psg.com/~zinin

Mobile Ad-hoc Networks (manet)

Chair(s):
 Joseph Macker <macker@itd.nrl.navy.mil>
 Ian Chakeres <idc@cs.ucsb.edu>

Routing Area Director(s):
 Bill Fenner <fenner@research.att.com>
 Alex Zinin <zinin@psg.com>

Routing Area Advisor:
 Alex Zinin <zinin@psg.com>

Mailing Lists:
 General Discussion: manet@ietf.org
 To Subscribe: manet-request@ietf.org
 In Body: subscribe manet
 Archive: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/manet/index.html

Description of Working Group:

The purpose of the MANET working group is to standardize IP routing protocol
functionality suitable for wireless routing application within both static
and dynamic topologies with increased dynamics due to node motion or other
factors.

Approaches are intended to be relatively lightweight in nature, suitable for
multiple hardware and wireless environments, and address scenarios where
MANETs are deployed at the edges of an IP infrastructure. Hybrid mesh
infrastructures (e.g., a mixture of fixed and mobile routers) should also be
supported by MANET specifications and management features.

Using mature components from previous work on experimental reactive and
proactive protocols, the WG will develop two Standards track routing
protocol
specifications:

- Reactive MANET Protocol (RMP)
- Proactive MANET Protocol (PMP)

If significant commonality between RMRP and PMRP protocol modules is
observed, the WG may decide to go with a converged approach. Both IPv4 and
IPv6 will be supported. Routing security requirements and issues will also
be addressed.

The MANET WG will also develop a scoped forwarding protocol that can
efficiently flood data packets to all participating MANET nodes. The primary
purpose of this mechanism is a simplified best effort multicast forwarding
function. The use of this protocol is intended to be applied ONLY within
MANET routing areas and the WG effort will be limited to routing layer
design issues.

The MANET WG will pay attention to the OSPF-MANET protocol work within the
OSPF WG and IRTF work that is addressing research topics related to MANET
environments.

Goals and Milestones:

[all current milestones are DONE]

Mar 05  Submit initial ID of RMP for WG review

Mar 05  Submit initial ID of PMP for WG review

Mar 05  Submit inital ID of generalized MANET flooding approach

Jun 05  Revise WG documents and review 

Nov 05  Document initial implementation progress and experience
          Revise documents based upon implementation experience

Feb 06  Submit RMP specification and supporting documentation to IESG for
        publications as Proposed Standard

Feb 06  Submit PMP specification and supporting documentation to IESG for
        publications as Proposed Standard

Feb 06  Submit MANET flooding specification to IESG for publication as 
        Experimental Standard

Mar 06  Review and update milestones





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From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Xavi_Mantec=F3n_=28UPCNet=29=22?=
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Subject: [manet] AODV - UU 0.8.1(last but one node in a chain doesn't
 forward the
 route reply until source retransmits for route request again)
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Hi to all,
 
I'm making some test with AODV-UU 0.8.1 (I've tried 0.9v but the problem 
persists). I've made a test with 5 laptops (running Fedora 2, kernel 
2.6.9 and IPW2100 v1.01 driver for Intel Centrino).

They are working well without AODV and static routes (good RTTS, 
bandwith, delays...)

Laptops are all in the same subnet (192.178.7.x) and out of range as 
desired to make the test:

192.168.7.2 <-> 192.168.7.3 <->192.168.7.4 <->192.168.7.5 <->192.168.7.6

This is,

7.2 only sees 7.3
7.3 only sees 7.2 and 7.4
7.4 only sees 7.3 and 7.5
7.5 only sees 7.4 and 7.6
7.6 only sees 7.5

(it has been made using iptables, filtering by MAC address)

 
I'm testing now Round Trip Time. I ping from 7.2 to 7.3, 7.4, 7.5 and 
7.6, and compare the results of the first ping (which includes AODV 
RouteRequest and Route Reply).

When I ping 7.2 to 7.3, I get a 4ms value for the first ping and 2 ms 
for the following ones. That's ok (first ping includes rreq and rrep, it 
adds 2 ms).

But when I ping 7.4, the result for the first RTT is 300ms !!, the 
following ones are ok (about 4ms). Route taken by the pings is ok but 
(7.2->7.3>7.4)

If I ping 7.5, the first RTT is about 500 ms !!, the following ones are 
ok (about 6ms). Route taken is good again.

And the same for all the other cases.... it goes on.

I've made captures with Ethereal. It seems that there's always the same 
error.



*******************************************************************************
This is what's happening:

Let's see what happens with 2 jumps, pinging from 7.2 tp 7.4

7.2             7.3         7.4         7.5

send rreq ->
               fw rreq ->

                          <-  rrep
                *
retx rreq ->
             <- fw rrep

(*) -> there should be a forwarded rrep from 7.4 to 7.3, but it's not here!

Then the route it's stablished and communication begins.

It seems that the last but one (or penultimate?) doesn't forward the 
first reply, until the source retransmits for rreq again (this is why 
RTT for the first pings times are bigger than they should be, 
retransmission time is added to the first time).


*****************************************************************************************

Let's see what happens with 3 jumps, pinging from 7.2 tp 7.5

7.2             7.3         7.4         7.5

send rreq ->
               fw rreq ->
                           fw rreq  ->
                                    <-  rrep
                            *
retx rreq ->
               fw rreq ->
                        <- fw rrep
             <- fw rrep


and it begins to transmit data. It's the same than before. The last but 
one only forwards the reply when he receives the second rreq.


*****************************************************************************************

This happens about 99% times. In 1% cases the last but one forwards the 
first reply, and times are what they should be.

Iptables is configured correctly, so I can assure that packets go 
through desired route. And there are cases where the things works like 
they should (1% cases, but it works!!)

Does someone know what's happening? Someone has made this test and has 
get the desired values for the first RTT (stablish route + RTT).

Thanks in advance. I'm waiting for you responses. Kind regards,

Xavi M (UPC student)

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From manet-bounces@ietf.org  Wed Dec  8 15:58:01 2004
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Thread-Topic: Dynamic changes  of 802.11 parameters and link characteristics
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From: "Zenz Michael" <Zenz@iabg.de>
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Hi,

Does anybody can provide information about dynamic changes of link
characteristics and 802.11 parameters during running mobile ad-hoc
network simulations. This means that after the start of an simulation
the quality of the link between selected nodes can be adapted
dynamically based on the location, which is traced with the getLoc
function.

Best Regards,
Michael=20

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From: venkata sivannarayana muppalla <muppalla999@ragalahari.com>
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--===============2083341361==
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<html><body><P><FONT style="FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif" size=2><FONT face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
<P><FONT style="FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif" size=2>hi all</FONT></P>
<P><FONT style="FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif" size=2><FONT size=3><FONT size=2>does any one has any code for Anticipated route maintenance(ARM) , if so please notify me</FONT></FONT></FONT></P>
<P><FONT style="FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif" size=2><FONT size=3><FONT size=2>thanks for your help</FONT></FONT></FONT></P>
<P><FONT style="FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif" size=2><BR>Thanks &amp; Regards<BR>M.V.Sivannarayana<BR><BR><BR>Be great in act, as you are in thought</FONT> </P><br>&nbsp;<br><hr>Listen to Non Stop Music @ http://www.ragalahari.com<br></body></html>


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Subject: [manet] MANETs and 802.11?
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Hello you MANET people,

I have a very general question.
I am running test on a simple 2-hops MANET. Briefly my testing scenario 
is the following: I have 2 ipaqs and a laptop. Those 3 devices have 
PCMCIA 802.11 WLAN cards (2 Dell Truemobile 1150 and a Cisco Aironet 
350). I configure those devices to belong to the same ad-hoc network 
(set the frequency to 2.422GHz) and route the network using unik-OLSR, a 
very popular OLSR implementation. Then I try to do a multi-hop ftp 
session. The result of this simple test is a little deception: routes 
are not stable and the network connectivity and response time seems to 
be, in general, very poor. So the question that comes to my mind is: am 
I doing something wrong or 802.11 is not suitable for real-life 
implementation of MANETs? I would like to have your detailed opinions.

Thx

Claudio

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From manet-bounces@ietf.org  Fri Dec 10 07:13:15 2004
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To: Claudio Lavecchia <Claudio.Lavecchia@eurecom.fr>, manet@ietf.org
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Subject: Re: [manet] MANETs and 802.11?
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Hello Claudio,

The question you raise it's, IMO, quite a hot topic. It's clear enough that=
=20
current IEEE 802.11 implementations are not yet prepared for deploying real=
=20
test-beds. The current specification defines an ad-hoc 802.11 cell as a=20
number of STA that are within the same coverage area, going clearly against=
=20
with the basis of multi-hop networking. In this sense, when you try to=20
separate, lets say, the two edges of the communication (so as to force them=
=20
to route traffic through an intermediate node), they would eventually loose=
=20
connection (from the point of view of 802.11). This causes some=20
inconsistencies and instability, as even in ad-hoc mode of operation, nodes=
=20
within the same 802.11 cell are interchanging signalling traffic=20
(beacons,...). Lets hope that mesh networking study group helps to=20
alleviate this shortcoming.

What you can do (I don't now even whether you were actually using this) is=
=20
MAC filtering. In this case, you "virtually" disconnect the devices but,=20
from the 802.11 point of view, the connectivity is still ok. Another=20
alternative may be to use two different interfaces at the intermediate=20
nodes (one of each connected to one of the edges), but I prefer the former=
=20
one.

I've tried to give my personal experience about this issue, but maybe=20
others have additional ideas or tricks that can be used. I've sometimes=20
heard experimental trials based on IEEE 802.11 cards within open fields, in=
=20
which thinks, at least, worked. Nevertheless, I hope that this may help you=
=20
to better understand the problem you *may* be facing.

Regards,

Ram=F3n


At 12:30 10/12/2004, Claudio Lavecchia wrote:
>Hello you MANET people,
>
>I have a very general question.
>I am running test on a simple 2-hops MANET. Briefly my testing scenario is=
=20
>the following: I have 2 ipaqs and a laptop. Those 3 devices have PCMCIA=20
>802.11 WLAN cards (2 Dell Truemobile 1150 and a Cisco Aironet 350). I=20
>configure those devices to belong to the same ad-hoc network (set the=20
>frequency to 2.422GHz) and route the network using unik-OLSR, a very=20
>popular OLSR implementation. Then I try to do a multi-hop ftp session. The=
=20
>result of this simple test is a little deception: routes are not stable=20
>and the network connectivity and response time seems to be, in general,=20
>very poor. So the question that comes to my mind is: am I doing something=
=20
>wrong or 802.11 is not suitable for real-life implementation of MANETs? I=
=20
>would like to have your detailed opinions.
>
>Thx
>
>Claudio
>
>_______________________________________________
>manet mailing list
>manet@ietf.org
>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet


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Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 12:19:47 +0000
From: "Dearlove, Christopher (UK)" <chris.dearlove@baesystems.com>
Subject: RE: [manet] MANETs and 802.11?
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> The question you raise it's, IMO, quite a hot topic. It's=0D
> clear enough that current IEEE 802.11 implementations are
> not yet prepared for deploying real test-beds.

Except that some of us have done it.

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To: "Dearlove, Christopher (UK)" <chris.dearlove@baesystems.com>
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Subject: RE: [manet] MANETs and 802.11?
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Hi Chris,

I did not have the intention of bothering any of you. I know that some=20
organizations (here I include mine) are working on real testbeds with=20
802.11. This is clear enough; maybe I was not too concrete with my=20
statement. My current belief is that existing technologies have a lot of=20
drawbacks to be fully usable and, therefore, some tricks/hacks are=20
required. If this is not your opinion, I would be really interested in=20
knowing how this could be achieved.

Here, we are using sort of customized MAC filtering schemes. I don't know=20
whether this is the more appropriate thing, but we couldn't think of=20
something better. Again, if you have better ideas, I would be really=20
interested in them.

Indeed, one of the major issues that are being pursued by MANET is real=20
experimentation, so I guess this is the way to follow.

Again, sorry if I bothered you, this was clearly out of my intention.

Regards

Ram=F3n

At 13:19 10/12/2004, you wrote:

> > The question you raise it's, IMO, quite a hot topic. It's
> > clear enough that current IEEE 802.11 implementations are
> > not yet prepared for deploying real test-beds.
>
>Except that some of us have done it.
>
>********************************************************************
>This email and any attachments are confidential to the intended
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>distribute its contents to any other person.
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>
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>
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From: "Dearlove, Christopher (UK)" <chris.dearlove@baesystems.com>
Subject: RE: [manet] MANETs and 802.11?
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> I did not have the intention of bothering any of you.

No problem. I was really saying don't give up, it can be
done. (And I was intending to indicate not just by us
- I don't know by how many but it's not small.) Now as to
the details at the physical/MAC layers, that's not been
my area in this work.

> My current belief is that existing technologies=0D
> have a lot of drawbacks to be fully usable

Certainly could be better. However top of my list would be
better interoperability of actual products. Improvements
could be later.

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Subject: RE: [manet] MANETs and 802.11?
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 08:25:07 -0500
Message-ID: <DDE4FF21A5EE6C47A3A88C2FA074057702161915@blums0005.na.baesystems.com>
Thread-Topic: [manet] MANETs and 802.11?
Thread-Index: AcTeuuyHn+id594bSYy8xumLhqVvcAAAHf3g
From: "Frye, Robert J (US SSA)" <robert.frye@baesystems.com>
To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ram=F3n_Ag=FCero?= <ramon@tlmat.unican.es>,
        "Dearlove, Christopher (UK)" <chris.dearlove@baesystems.com>
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Your suggested use of MAC filtering is a good way to achieve what =
Claudio was originally looking to do.  We've used that & route table =
poisoning both successfully.

Rob Frye
BAE SYSTEMS
CNIR
11487 Sunset Hills Road
Reston, VA 20190
(v)703-668-4520
(m)571-331-2846
(e)robert.frye@baesystems.com
=20

-----Original Message-----
From: manet-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:manet-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf =
Of Ram=F3n Ag=FCero
=20
... I know that some=20
organizations (here I include mine) are working on real testbeds with=20
802.11. This is clear enough; maybe I was not too concrete with my=20
statement. My current belief is that existing technologies have a lot of =

drawbacks to be fully usable and, therefore, some tricks/hacks are=20
required. ...

Here, we are using sort of customized MAC filtering schemes.=20
...

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From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Erik_Nordstr=F6m?= <erik.nordstrom@it.uu.se>
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To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Xavi_Mantec=F3n_=28UPCNet=29=22?=
	<javier.mantecon@estudiant.upc.edu>
Subject: Re: [manet] AODV - UU 0.8.1(last but one node in a chain doesn't
	forward the route reply until source retransmits for route request
	again)
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The delay is probably caused by the expanding ring search. The first=20
RREQ only reaches the first neighbor (if using link layer feedback) and=20
then the route discovery on the source node needs to timeout before a=20
new RREQ with a higher TTL is sent. This goes on as the ring expands...=20
However, the delays you mention still seem a bit long. Try using=20
"--no-expanding-ring" when starting AODV-UU and see what happens.

Erik

Xavi Mantec=F3n (UPCNet) wrote:

> Hi to all,
>
> I'm making some test with AODV-UU 0.8.1 (I've tried 0.9v but the=20
> problem persists). I've made a test with 5 laptops (running Fedora 2,=20
> kernel 2.6.9 and IPW2100 v1.01 driver for Intel Centrino).
>
> They are working well without AODV and static routes (good RTTS,=20
> bandwith, delays...)
>
> Laptops are all in the same subnet (192.178.7.x) and out of range as=20
> desired to make the test:
>
> 192.168.7.2 <-> 192.168.7.3 <->192.168.7.4 <->192.168.7.5 <->192.168.7.=
6
>
> This is,
>
> 7.2 only sees 7.3
> 7.3 only sees 7.2 and 7.4
> 7.4 only sees 7.3 and 7.5
> 7.5 only sees 7.4 and 7.6
> 7.6 only sees 7.5
>
> (it has been made using iptables, filtering by MAC address)
>
>
> I'm testing now Round Trip Time. I ping from 7.2 to 7.3, 7.4, 7.5 and=20
> 7.6, and compare the results of the first ping (which includes AODV=20
> RouteRequest and Route Reply).
>
> When I ping 7.2 to 7.3, I get a 4ms value for the first ping and 2 ms=20
> for the following ones. That's ok (first ping includes rreq and rrep,=20
> it adds 2 ms).
>
> But when I ping 7.4, the result for the first RTT is 300ms !!, the=20
> following ones are ok (about 4ms). Route taken by the pings is ok but=20
> (7.2->7.3>7.4)
>
> If I ping 7.5, the first RTT is about 500 ms !!, the following ones=20
> are ok (about 6ms). Route taken is good again.
>
> And the same for all the other cases.... it goes on.
>
> I've made captures with Ethereal. It seems that there's always the=20
> same error.
>
>
>
> ***********************************************************************=
********=20
>
> This is what's happening:
>
> Let's see what happens with 2 jumps, pinging from 7.2 tp 7.4
>
> 7.2             7.3         7.4         7.5
>
> send rreq ->
>               fw rreq ->
>
>                          <-  rrep
>                *
> retx rreq ->
>             <- fw rrep
>
> (*) -> there should be a forwarded rrep from 7.4 to 7.3, but it's not=20
> here!
>
> Then the route it's stablished and communication begins.
>
> It seems that the last but one (or penultimate?) doesn't forward the=20
> first reply, until the source retransmits for rreq again (this is why=20
> RTT for the first pings times are bigger than they should be,=20
> retransmission time is added to the first time).
>
>
> ***********************************************************************=
******************=20
>
>
> Let's see what happens with 3 jumps, pinging from 7.2 tp 7.5
>
> 7.2             7.3         7.4         7.5
>
> send rreq ->
>               fw rreq ->
>                           fw rreq  ->
>                                    <-  rrep
>                            *
> retx rreq ->
>               fw rreq ->
>                        <- fw rrep
>             <- fw rrep
>
>
> and it begins to transmit data. It's the same than before. The last=20
> but one only forwards the reply when he receives the second rreq.
>
>
> ***********************************************************************=
******************=20
>
>
> This happens about 99% times. In 1% cases the last but one forwards=20
> the first reply, and times are what they should be.
>
> Iptables is configured correctly, so I can assure that packets go=20
> through desired route. And there are cases where the things works like=20
> they should (1% cases, but it works!!)
>
> Does someone know what's happening? Someone has made this test and has=20
> get the desired values for the first RTT (stablish route + RTT).
>
> Thanks in advance. I'm waiting for you responses. Kind regards,
>
> Xavi M (UPC student)
>
> _______________________________________________
> manet mailing list
> manet@ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet



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From manet-bounces@ietf.org  Fri Dec 10 10:52:38 2004
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From: "John P. Mullen" <jomullen@nmsu.edu>
To: "'Claudio Lavecchia'" <Claudio.Lavecchia@eurecom.fr>, <manet@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [manet] MANETs and 802.11?
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 08:40:50 -0700
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Hi Claudio,

I think the best view is that multihop communications is not as easy as it
looks.  A problem several field workers has reported is that, primarily due
to multipath fading, the received signal is highly variable.  This means
that from time to time, a RREP is received over an unreliable link, causing
an unreliable route to be set up.  When the route is used, the low
reliability triggers a new search, with a chance for the same thing to
happen.

Some sort of MAC filtering will definitely help.  Here is a paper that looks
into that problem.  

http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=774758

However, remember that although filtering helps, it does not completely fix
the problem.  I'd say that if you are getting above 50% of the throughput
simulation indicates you should have, you are doing pretty good.

John Mullen

-----Original Message-----
From: manet-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:manet-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
Claudio Lavecchia
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 4:30 AM
To: manet@ietf.org
Subject: [manet] MANETs and 802.11?

Hello you MANET people,

I have a very general question.
I am running test on a simple 2-hops MANET. Briefly my testing scenario 
is the following: I have 2 ipaqs and a laptop. Those 3 devices have 
PCMCIA 802.11 WLAN cards (2 Dell Truemobile 1150 and a Cisco Aironet 
350). I configure those devices to belong to the same ad-hoc network 
(set the frequency to 2.422GHz) and route the network using unik-OLSR, a 
very popular OLSR implementation. Then I try to do a multi-hop ftp 
session. The result of this simple test is a little deception: routes 
are not stable and the network connectivity and response time seems to 
be, in general, very poor. So the question that comes to my mind is: am 
I doing something wrong or 802.11 is not suitable for real-life 
implementation of MANETs? I would like to have your detailed opinions.

Thx

Claudio

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Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 15:58:59 +0000
From: "Dearlove, Christopher (UK)" <chris.dearlove@baesystems.com>
Subject: RE: [manet] MANETs and 802.11?
To: manet@ietf.org
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> A problem several field workers has reported is that,=0D
> primarily due
> to multipath fading, the received signal is highly variable. =0D
> This means
> that from time to time, a RREP is received over an unreliable=0D
> link, causing
> an unreliable route to be set up.  When the route is used, the low
> reliability triggers a new search, with a chance for the same thing to
> happen.

Using a proactive protocol, specifically OLSR, use of link
layer information (as described in RFC 3626) can help against
this problem.

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From manet-bounces@ietf.org  Fri Dec 10 12:35:15 2004
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From: Brown Tim <Timxb@Colorado.EDU>
To: Claudio Lavecchia <Claudio.Lavecchia@eurecom.fr>
Subject: Re: [manet] MANETs and 802.11?
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Another little problem to watch out for is with the Cisco Aironet 350.
If the card is placed in ad hoc mode, we have observed in some versions of
the firmware an undesireable "feature". This feature cuts the throughput
in half and can add up to 125msec delays to packet delivery times. In ad
hoc mode, the card alternates between sending your packets and probing
other channels for other ad hoc networks.  The cycle is about 250msec with
half spent sending your packets and the other half searching. This is easy
to see by observing a file transfer with a spectrum analyzer.
	Regards,
		Tim

On Fri, 10 Dec 2004, Claudio Lavecchia wrote:

> Hello you MANET people,
>
> I have a very general question.
> I am running test on a simple 2-hops MANET. Briefly my testing scenario
> is the following: I have 2 ipaqs and a laptop. Those 3 devices have
> PCMCIA 802.11 WLAN cards (2 Dell Truemobile 1150 and a Cisco Aironet
> 350). I configure those devices to belong to the same ad-hoc network
> (set the frequency to 2.422GHz) and route the network using unik-OLSR, a
> very popular OLSR implementation. Then I try to do a multi-hop ftp
> session. The result of this simple test is a little deception: routes
> are not stable and the network connectivity and response time seems to
> be, in general, very poor. So the question that comes to my mind is: am
> I doing something wrong or 802.11 is not suitable for real-life
> implementation of MANETs? I would like to have your detailed opinions.
>
> Thx
>
> Claudio
>
> _______________________________________________
> manet mailing list
> manet@ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet
>

Timothy X Brown
Interdisciplinary Telecommunications
Electrical and Computer Engineering
ECOT 256 Campus Box 530
University of Colorado
Boulder, CO 80309
Tel: (303) 492-1630
Fax: (303) 492-1112
http://ece.colorado.edu/~timxb

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From manet-bounces@ietf.org  Fri Dec 10 13:09:02 2004
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From: David Young <dyoung@pobox.com>
To: manet@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [manet] MANETs and 802.11?
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On Fri, Dec 10, 2004 at 12:30:17PM +0100, Claudio Lavecchia wrote:
> Hello you MANET people,
> 
> I have a very general question.
> I am running test on a simple 2-hops MANET. Briefly my testing scenario 
> is the following: I have 2 ipaqs and a laptop. Those 3 devices have 
> PCMCIA 802.11 WLAN cards (2 Dell Truemobile 1150 and a Cisco Aironet 
> 350). I configure those devices to belong to the same ad-hoc network 
> (set the frequency to 2.422GHz) and route the network using unik-OLSR, a 
> very popular OLSR implementation. Then I try to do a multi-hop ftp 
> session. The result of this simple test is a little deception: routes 
> are not stable and the network connectivity and response time seems to 
> be, in general, very poor. So the question that comes to my mind is: am 
> I doing something wrong or 802.11 is not suitable for real-life 
> implementation of MANETs? I would like to have your detailed opinions.

Claudio,

802.11 is suitable.  I think that on your network, you are probably
seeing the interaction of shortcomings in both the WLAN cards and OLSR.

On an 802.11 network, no multicast Hello protocol can be expected to
provide a reliable link indication while the link is heavily in use by
a unicast stream, like your FTP session.

Some 802.11 implementers foolishly believe that the number of 802.11
beacons received provides a useful "link quality" indication.  They cease
transmitting/receiving and start to scan if no beacon is heard in 10
consecutive beacon intervals.

802.11 cards commonly have ad-hoc mode implementations that are
susceptible to "IBSS splits."  Your TrueMobile card probably uses the
Intersil Prism chipset---if you are not running station firmware 1.4.9
or higher, try upgrading.  Even 1.4.9 will misbehave on ad hoc networks,
but it's safe to say that running any earlier version will disappoint you.
I don't know if there is a version of the Cisco Aironet firmware that
is not susceptible to IBSS splits.

Dave

-- 
David Young             OJC Technologies
dyoung@ojctech.com      Urbana, IL * (217) 278-3933

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From manet-bounces@ietf.org  Fri Dec 10 18:12:36 2004
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From: Dave Maltz <dmaltz+ietf@cs.cmu.edu>
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Subject: RE: [manet] MANETs and 802.11?
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--On Friday, December 10, 2004 8:40 AM -0700 "John P. Mullen" 
<jomullen@nmsu.edu> wrote:

> I think the best view is that multihop communications is not as easy as it
> looks.
<snip/>
> Some sort of MAC filtering will definitely help.  Here is a paper that
> looks into that problem.
>
> http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=774758
>
> However, remember that although filtering helps, it does not completely
> fix the problem.  I'd say that if you are getting above 50% of the
> throughput simulation indicates you should have, you are doing pretty
> good.

As reported in our paper "Quantitative Lessons From a Full-Scale Multi-Hop 
Wireless Ad Hoc Network Testbed." In Proceedings of the IEEE Wireless 
Communications and Networking Conference, IEEE, Chicago, September 2000
http://www.monarch.cs.rice.edu/monarch-papers/wcnc2000.ps

we found that using macfiltering to prevent the discovery of "routes with 
too few hops" improves TCP throughput performance by 30%.  However, that 
still leaves a long way to go to achieve the throughputs measured on either 
ns-2 or a lab bench.  For example, on a lab bench using macfilter to create 
a synthetic topology of three nodes communicating with 2 Mbps radios, we 
recorded TCP throughput of .5 Mbps.  Moving to the field, with macfiltering 
preventing the discovery of "bad" routes, we measure ~.16 Mbps.  Without 
the macfiltering, we measure .12Mbps.

Cheers,
 -dam



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From manet-bounces@ietf.org  Sat Dec 11 10:04:34 2004
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Hi,
 There are various applications in Wireless Sensor Networks such as military surveillance, disaster management and health monitoring applications, where it is of utmost importance that the sensed data reaches the sink by a certain deadline.
 
 We know that several MAC protocols have been proposed for WSN. I think there is a necessity to design a Sensor MAC protocol which addresses the above issue. I am doing research Independently in this area. I have modified the sleep and Listen schedule in S-MAC so that it takes care of high priority packets. 
 
 I want to know if anybody is working in a related area. Kindly let me know if you are interested in my research.
 
Praveen.

		
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--0-1516077604-1102777146=:6110
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<DIV>Hi,</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;There are various applications in Wireless Sensor Networks such as military surveillance, disaster management and health monitoring applications, where it is of utmost importance that the sensed data reaches the sink by a certain deadline.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;We know that several MAC protocols have been proposed for WSN. I think there is a necessity to design a Sensor MAC protocol which addresses the above issue. I am doing research Independently in this area. I have modified the sleep and Listen schedule in S-MAC so that it takes care of high priority packets. </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;I want to know if anybody is working in a related area. Kindly let me know if you are interested in my research.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Praveen.</DIV><p>
		<hr size=1>Do you Yahoo!?<br> 
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Subject: [manet] questions related to section 9.1 of maodv draft
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Hello ~~
I have some questions related to section 9.1 of maodv draft

draft-ietf-manet-maodv-00.txt
>9.1. Maintaining Multicast Tree Utilization Records
>=A0=A0 For each multicast tree to which a node belongs, either because
>=A0=A0 it is a member of the group or because it is a router for the
>=A0=A0 multicast tree, the node maintains a list of next hops -- i.e., =
those
>=A0=A0 1-hop neighbors that are likewise a part of the multicast tree.
>=A0=A0 This list of next hops is used for forwarding messages received
>=A0=A0 for the multicast group.=A0=20
>   A node forwards a multicast message to every such next hop,=20
>   except that neighbor from which the message arrived.=A0=20
Does a node use "unicast" to forward a multicast message to every such =
next
hop?

>   If there are multiple next hops, the forwarding operation
>=A0=A0 MAY be performed by broadcasting the multicast packet to the =
node's
>=A0=A0 neighbors; only the neighbors that belong to the multicast tree
>=A0=A0 and have not already received the packet continue to forward the
>=A0=A0 multicast packet.
How can a node send the multicast packet to only the neighbors that =
belong
to the multicast tree and have not already received the packet continue =
to
forward the multicast packet?=20

Thank you!!



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Dear colleagues,

We are organizing a one-day workshop within the WiOpt Symposium
(http://www.wiopt.org) to be held in April next year in Riva del Garda,
Italy. Riva del Garda is in Northern Italy, which is quite close to 
Venice.

Our workshop is entitled "Network Coding, Theory, and Applications", and 
we have put up a workshop web page at http://www.netcod.org.  The scope of 
the workshop includes network coding and multiuser information theory.  If 
you have any recent work related to these topics, please consider 
submitting to our workshop.  The deadline for submission is Dec 17, 2004.

In addition to NetCod, three other workshops will be held in conjunction
with the WiOpt Symposium.  For further information, please refer to the
Symposium homepage.  We look forward to seeing you at the Workshop and the 
Symposium.

With best regards,
Raymond Yeung, Workshop Chair
http://www.ie.cuhk.edu.hk/whyeung
Phil Chou, Technical Program Chair
http://research.microsoft.com/users/pachou/


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From manet-bounces@ietf.org  Mon Dec 13 12:25:21 2004
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Our appologies if you receive multiple copies of this CFP.


                     CALL FOR PAPERS
                     ===============

                          RAWNET
   Workshop on Resource Allocation in Wireless Networks
                   http://www.rawnet.org

               In conjunction with WiOpt 2005
                 April 3, Trentino, Italy


This workshop focuses on models and techniques for addressing resource
allocation problems in wireless networks. Resource management in wireless
environments is extremely complex due to the specific characteristics of
wireless communications, such as user mobility, interference, the
intrinsically scarce bandwidth, and the highly variable and unpredictable
propagation conditions. These features present a vast range of novel and
fundamental challenges as wireless networks evolve to support an expanding
variety of data applications. In particular, data streams have drastically
different traffic characteristics and Quality-of-Service requirements from
voice services, urging a radical overhaul of voice-centric air-interface
and resource allocation paradigms. In addition, existing congestion 
control
protocols for data flows like TCP were originally designed for wireline
networks, and are not well-suited to wireless links which are inherently
slow and error-prone. A further dimension of complexity stems from the
growing diversity in network architectures, as wireless LAN's and ad hoc
networks rapidly proliferate, giving rise to a wide spectrum of pricing 
and
routing issues.

Specific topics of interest include (but are not limited to):

    * air-interface scheduling
    * cross-layer design
    * dimensioning, provisioning and traffic engineering
    * load balancing and routing
    * models and techniques for optimization of wireless networks
    * performance evaluation methods for wireless networks
    * power control and energy-efficient communication
    * pricing and incentive schemes in ad hoc networks

Important Dates
===============

Submission deadline:    December 17, 2004
Notification date:      February 11, 2005
Camera-ready due:       February 26, 2005


Papers should be formatted according to the IEEE double-column standard
format with 11 pt font size. The maximum length of the manuscript is 6
pages. This limit includes figures, appendix, bibliography, etc. Papers
must be submitted in PDF. Paper submission is managed by the EDAS system:
http://edas.info. If you do not have an EDAS account, please create one
first.

Program Chairs
==============

Sem Borst <mailto:sem@research.bell-labs.com>
           Bell Labs, Lucent (USA) and CWI (The Netherlands)

Alexandre Proutiere <mailto:alexandre.proutiere@rd.francetelecom.com>
           France Telecom R&D, France


Technical Program Committee
===========================

Rajeev Agrawal          Motorola, USA
Chris Blondia           University of Antwerp, Belgium
Thomas Bonald           France Telecom R&D, France
Richard Boucherie       University of Twente, The Netherlands
Costas Courcoubetis     Athens University of Economics and Business, 
Greece
Piyush Gupta            Bell Labs, Lucent, USA
Riku Jantti             University of Vaasa, Finland
Leonidas Georgiadis     CERTH, Greece
Sindo Nunez Queija      CWI, The Netherlands
Phuoc Tran Gia          University of Wuerzburg, Germany
Venu Veeravalli         University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, USA
Harish Viswanathan      Bell Labs, Lucent, USA
Phil Whiting            Bell Labs, Lucent, USA

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From manet-bounces@ietf.org  Mon Dec 13 21:06:28 2004
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From: Shubhranshu <shubhranshu@samsung.com>
Subject: Re: [manet] MANET WG rechartering and new co-chair
To: Alex Zinin <zinin@psg.com>, manet@ietf.org
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Hi,


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Alex Zinin" <zinin@psg.com>
> 
> The purpose of the MANET working group is to standardize IP routing protocol
> functionality suitable for wireless routing application within both static
> and dynamic topologies with increased dynamics due to node motion or other
> factors.
> 
> Approaches are intended to be relatively lightweight in nature, suitable for
> multiple hardware and wireless environments, and address scenarios where
> MANETs are deployed at the edges of an IP infrastructure. Hybrid mesh
> infrastructures (e.g., a mixture of fixed and mobile routers) should also be
> supported by MANET specifications and management features.
> 


Its good to know that manet WG will address scenarios where MANETs are 
deployed at the edges of IP infrastructure. Does it mean that MANET WG will
specify Internet gateway operation? What is the scope of " address scenarios" 
mentioned here ? Is  MANET WG interested in independent Internet gateway 
related proposals or would like to support this scenario by inserting few lines 
within RMP and PMP specifications  ?


Regards,
Shubhranshu



> Using mature components from previous work on experimental reactive and
> proactive protocols, the WG will develop two Standards track routing
> protocol
> specifications:
> 
> - Reactive MANET Protocol (RMP)
> - Proactive MANET Protocol (PMP)
> 
> If significant commonality between RMRP and PMRP protocol modules is
> observed, the WG may decide to go with a converged approach. Both IPv4 and
> IPv6 will be supported. Routing security requirements and issues will also
> be addressed.
> 
> The MANET WG will also develop a scoped forwarding protocol that can
> efficiently flood data packets to all participating MANET nodes. The primary
> purpose of this mechanism is a simplified best effort multicast forwarding
> function. The use of this protocol is intended to be applied ONLY within
> MANET routing areas and the WG effort will be limited to routing layer
> design issues.
> 
> The MANET WG will pay attention to the OSPF-MANET protocol work within the
> OSPF WG and IRTF work that is addressing research topics related to MANET
> environments.
> 
> Goals and Milestones:
> 
> [all current milestones are DONE]
> 
> Mar 05  Submit initial ID of RMP for WG review
> 
> Mar 05  Submit initial ID of PMP for WG review
> 
> Mar 05  Submit inital ID of generalized MANET flooding approach
> 
> Jun 05  Revise WG documents and review 
> 
> Nov 05  Document initial implementation progress and experience
>           Revise documents based upon implementation experience
> 
> Feb 06  Submit RMP specification and supporting documentation to IESG for
>         publications as Proposed Standard
> 
> Feb 06  Submit PMP specification and supporting documentation to IESG for
>         publications as Proposed Standard
> 
> Feb 06  Submit MANET flooding specification to IESG for publication as 
>         Experimental Standard
> 
> Mar 06  Review and update milestones
> 
> 
> 


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Dear Sirs,

May I request you all to please give me some paper references where I =
can find some ideas on 'Nanotechnology architecture & implementation of =
Wireless Sensor Networks' or something related to that. I have been =
searching some papers on that field but not getting to the right place. =
Plus, I also need some paper references to learn about how ultra =
wideband systems are getting into chip level, I means, the status of =
recent research on this area.
=20
Any help will be highly appreciated. =20
Thanking you all in advance.

Kind regards,

Upal Mahfuz


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http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>
<DIV align=3Djustify><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Dear Sirs,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Djustify>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV align=3Djustify><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>May I request=20
you all to please give me some paper references where I can find some =
ideas on=20
<STRONG><U>'Nanotechnology architecture &amp; implementation of Wireless =
Sensor=20
Networks' </U></STRONG>or something related to that. I have been=20
searching&nbsp;some papers on that field but not getting to the right =
place.=20
Plus, I also need some paper references to learn about how ultra =
wideband=20
systems are getting into chip level, I means, the status of recent =
research on=20
this area.</FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Djustify><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV align=3Djustify><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>Any help will=20
be highly =
appreciated.&nbsp;</FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV align=3Djustify><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanking you all in=20
advance.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Djustify>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV align=3Djustify><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Kind =
regards,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Djustify>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV align=3Djustify><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Upal=20
Mahfuz</FONT></DIV></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

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Subject: [manet] WiMob 2005 -- Submission deadline just one week away!
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        PLEASE ACCEPT OUR APOLOGIES IF YOU RECEIVE MULTIPLE COPIES

               Final Call for Papers -- WiMob'2005

            International Conference on Wireless and Mobile Computing,
                      Networking and Communications

        Conference dates:   August 22-24, 2005
                Location:   Hotel Delta Centre-Ville 
                            Montreal, Canada
                                                                              
                 Website:   http://congresbcu.com/wimob2005/

Important Dates:

Submissions due: December 21, 2004   *** Just one week away! 

Notification of acceptance: February 21, 2005
Tutorial and special session proposals due: March 21, 2005
Final manuscripts due: April 21, 2005
Registration and full payment due: April 30, 2005
                                                                              
Topics of Interest:

  WiMob'2005 addresses three main areas: Wireless Communications, Mobile
Networking, Ubiquitous Computing and Applications. This conference aims
to stimulate interactions between participants through them by exchanging
new ideas and practical experience in these areas. The conference offers
opportunities for in-depth exploration of the most recent research and
results in these fields. 

  The conference will be comprised of the following three symposia: 

         Symposium 1: Wireless Communications
         Symposium 2: Mobile Networking
         Symposium 3: Ubiquitous Computing, Services and Applications

  Please see the conference website for the list of topics for each
of the above symposia as well as for information regarding Tutorials, 
Special Sessions and Industrial Exhibits.

Proceedings: To be published by IEEE and will be accessible through
             IEEE Xplore. 

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From: venkata sivannarayana muppalla <muppalla999@ragalahari.com>
To: ns-users@isi.edu
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Subject: [manet] where can i get NS2.1b8
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<html><body><P><FONT style="FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif" size=2><FONT face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
<P><FONT style="FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif" size=2>Hi all</FONT></P>
<P><FONT style="FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif" size=2>please tell me where can i download NS2.1b8 version.please help me.it is urgent.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT style="FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif" size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
<P><FONT style="FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif" size=2>thanks in advance</P>
<P><BR>&nbsp;<BR>Thanks &amp; Regards<BR>M.V.Sivannarayana<BR><BR><BR>Be great in act, as you are in thought</FONT> </P><br>&nbsp;<br><hr>Listen to Non Stop Music @ http://www.ragalahari.com<br></body></html>


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. What is the business model for WiMAX? 
. What do we learn from earlier deployments? 
. What about the future extensions of the standard? 
. How is addressed the interoperability challenge? 

These questions, among others, will be addressed during the second edition
of the WiMAX Summit to be organised in Paris next 5-8 April 2005.

 

Get all details at:

 <http://www.upperside.fr/wimax05/wimax2005intro.htm>
http://www.upperside.fr/wimax05/wimax2005intro.htm

 

 


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<div class=3DSection1>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><strong><b><font size=3D1 face=3DArial><span =
lang=3DEN-GB
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Arial'>&#8226; =
</span></font></b></strong><font
size=3D1 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Arial'>What
is the <strong><b><font face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-family:Arial'>business
model</span></font></b></strong> for WiMAX? <br>
<strong><b><font face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-family:Arial'>&#8226; =
</span></font></b></strong>What
do we learn from <strong><b><font face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-family:Arial'>earlier
deployments</span></font></b></strong>? <br>
<strong><b><font face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-family:Arial'>&#8226; =
</span></font></b></strong>What
about the <strong><b><font face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-family:Arial'>future
extensions</span></font></b></strong> of the standard? <br>
<strong><b><font face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-family:Arial'>&#8226; =
</span></font></b></strong>How
is addressed the <strong><b><font face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-family:Arial'>interoperability</span></font></b></strong>
challenge? <br>
<br>
These questions, among others, will be addressed during the second =
edition of
the WiMAX Summit to be organised in <st1:place w:st=3D"on"><st1:City =
w:st=3D"on">Paris</st1:City></st1:place>
next 5-8 April 2005.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:
9.0pt;font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:
9.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Get all details =
at:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><a =
href=3D"http://www.upperside.fr/wimax05/wimax2005intro.htm"
title=3D"http://www.upperside.fr/wimax05/wimax2005intro.htm"><span =
lang=3DEN-GB><span
title=3D"http://www.upperside.fr/wimax05/wimax2005intro.htm">http://www.u=
pperside.fr/wimax05/wimax2005intro.htm</span></span></a></span></font><fo=
nt
size=3D1 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>=


<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-GB =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

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From manet-bounces@ietf.org  Wed Dec 15 13:53:04 2004
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From: Claudio Lavecchia <Claudio.Lavecchia@eurecom.fr>
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Subject: [manet] 802.11 ad-hoc mode and infrastructure mode
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Hello you MANET ppl,

After last week discussion (for those who red it) that I found very=20
helpful and interesting, I have another very general question:

Trying to investigate the causes of the delay that I was experiencing=20
when running a multi-hop ftp session on a 802.11 mobile ad-hoc network=20
(I recall the test scenario: 2 ipaqs equipped with Dell Truemobile 1150=20
WLAN card and a laptop equipped withCisco Aironet 350, routing algo=20
OLSR, ad-hoc mode, no mobility) I found an interesting article=20
(http://dsonline.computer.org/0401/f/w1spotp.htm) claiming that five=20
factors highly influence 802.11 link quality and those factors are:
- users shadowing (blocking) node links due to their own body orientation=
,
=95- other people shadowing node links,
=95- cars shadowing node links,
=95- the wireless card model, and
=95- node height.

Now the question that comes to my mind is: why when I use a WLAN card in=20
infrastructure mode and connect to an Access Point I do not experience=20
any delay and when I run ad-hoc mode tests I do? What can be the cause?

Thank you in advance

Claudio

_______________________________________________
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From manet-bounces@ietf.org  Thu Dec 16 03:32:52 2004
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Subject: RE: [manet] 802.11 ad-hoc mode and infrastructure mode
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 09:24:09 +0100
Message-ID: <9F1223587A755D47805AECAB7ECAF5D901A393F3@swing.cefriel.it>
Thread-Topic: [manet] 802.11 ad-hoc mode and infrastructure mode
Thread-Index: AcTi14hmYbfkn7K8RgudPBB+EVrWAQAa4TqQ
From: "Giorgio Mulas" <giorgio.mulas@cefriel.it>
To: "Claudio Lavecchia" <Claudio.Lavecchia@eurecom.fr>, <manet@ietf.org>
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Hi Claudio,
The factors you are listing interact in a complicate way that vary from =
situation to situation. So it is difficult to give an unambiguous =
response. I experienced the same problems in a test-bed similar to that =
you are describing (based on iPAQ 5550 with external PCMCIA 802.11b card =
- the internal one sucks!) and I noticed that better results (anyway it =
is not the Holy Grail) could be achieved considering suitable antennas.

In infrastructure mode AP are usually in a higher place and have better =
antennas with suitable radiation diagrams in order to optimize coverage, =
while "clients" cards (e.g. PCMCIA) are used mainly horizontally and =
have an asymmetric radiation diagram (2 lobes): in particular one lobe =
(the upper side one) is predominant with respect to the other (the lower =
side one that "aim" to the floor).

This is the quickest way to deploy a WLAN (not a MANET!) achieving good =
performances (coverage vs. throughput) without performing accurate site =
surveying.

When deploying a MANET (802.11 ad hoc mode, of course) nodes are placed =
at the same height and in random places and it is difficult to take into =
the proper consideration the antennas orientation (as highlighted in the =
last week discussion 802.11 could not be the best technology to use when =
implementing MANETs, although it is the most used). The solution could =
be using external omnidirectional antennas to be attached to the WLAN =
card (check this document =
http://www.artem.de/content/artem/ar_ib_ANTGUIDE_03_e.pdf for examples).

Hope this is useful.

B.r.

Giorgio




------------------------------------------
Giorgio Mulas | Researcher

CEFRIEL =AD Politecnico di Milano
Via Fucini, 2 =B7 20133 Milano (Italy)

p. +39 02 23954 265
f. +39 02 23954 465
e. giorgio.mulas@cefriel.it


> -----Original Message-----
> From: manet-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:manet-bounces@ietf.org]=20
> On Behalf Of Claudio Lavecchia
> Sent: mercoled=EC 15 dicembre 2004 19.24
> To: manet@ietf.org
> Subject: [manet] 802.11 ad-hoc mode and infrastructure mode
>=20
>=20
> Hello you MANET ppl,
>=20
> After last week discussion (for those who red it) that I found very=20
> helpful and interesting, I have another very general question:
>=20
> Trying to investigate the causes of the delay that I was experiencing=20
> when running a multi-hop ftp session on a 802.11 mobile=20
> ad-hoc network=20
> (I recall the test scenario: 2 ipaqs equipped with Dell=20
> Truemobile 1150=20
> WLAN card and a laptop equipped withCisco Aironet 350, routing algo=20
> OLSR, ad-hoc mode, no mobility) I found an interesting article=20
> (http://dsonline.computer.org/0401/f/w1spotp.htm) claiming that five=20
> factors highly influence 802.11 link quality and those factors are:
> - users shadowing (blocking) node links due to their own body=20
> orientation,
> *- other people shadowing node links,
> *- cars shadowing node links,
> *- the wireless card model, and
> *- node height.
>=20
> Now the question that comes to my mind is: why when I use a=20
> WLAN card in=20
> infrastructure mode and connect to an Access Point I do not=20
> experience=20
> any delay and when I run ad-hoc mode tests I do? What can be=20
> the cause?
>=20
> Thank you in advance
>=20
> Claudio
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> manet mailing list
> manet@ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet
>=20

_______________________________________________
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manet@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet


From manet-bounces@ietf.org  Thu Dec 16 09:31:57 2004
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From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9s?= Lagar Cavilla <andreslc@cs.toronto.edu>
Subject: RE: [manet] 802.11 ad-hoc mode and infrastructure mode
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I totally agree with Giorgio; let me add a bit about my experience:
We performed some indoor signal measurements attaching an external=20
omnidirectional antenna to a pair of laptops in ad hoc mode. I would like=20
to add that, apart from being omnidirectional, the antennas had a very=20
small horizontal aperture (11 degrees), thus minimizing 3D multipath (to=20
some extent). The antennas were also placed pretty high, more or less 3=20
meters, to avoid the interaction of most furniture.
For the sake of the measurements this setup worked very well, enabling=20
stable communication at relatively distant locations. However, it aims to=20
mimic the highly idealized conditions found in simulators, and cannot be=20
translated to any deployment that calls itself "realistic". Unless your ad=
=20
hoc nodes are vehicles, which is hardly the case indoors.
If anyone is interested, details can be found at=20
http://www.cs.toronto.edu/~andreslc/papers/SECON04.pdf. This is a paper we=
=20
published last fall at SECON in Santa Clara.

At 03:24 AM 12/16/2004, you wrote:
>Hi Claudio,
>The factors you are listing interact in a complicate way that vary from=20
>situation to situation. So it is difficult to give an unambiguous=20
>response. I experienced the same problems in a test-bed similar to that=20
>you are describing (based on iPAQ 5550 with external PCMCIA 802.11b card -=
=20
>the internal one sucks!) and I noticed that better results (anyway it is=20
>not the Holy Grail) could be achieved considering suitable antennas.
>
>In infrastructure mode AP are usually in a higher place and have better=20
>antennas with suitable radiation diagrams in order to optimize coverage,=20
>while "clients" cards (e.g. PCMCIA) are used mainly horizontally and have=
=20
>an asymmetric radiation diagram (2 lobes): in particular one lobe (the=20
>upper side one) is predominant with respect to the other (the lower side=20
>one that "aim" to the floor).
>
>This is the quickest way to deploy a WLAN (not a MANET!) achieving good=20
>performances (coverage vs. throughput) without performing accurate site=20
>surveying.
>
>When deploying a MANET (802.11 ad hoc mode, of course) nodes are placed at=
=20
>the same height and in random places and it is difficult to take into the=
=20
>proper consideration the antennas orientation (as highlighted in the last=
=20
>week discussion 802.11 could not be the best technology to use when=20
>implementing MANETs, although it is the most used). The solution could be=
=20
>using external omnidirectional antennas to be attached to the WLAN card=20
>(check this document=20
>http://www.artem.de/content/artem/ar_ib_ANTGUIDE_03_e.pdf for examples).
>
>Hope this is useful.
>
>B.r.
>
>Giorgio
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------------------
>Giorgio Mulas | Researcher
>
>CEFRIEL =AD Politecnico di Milano
>Via Fucini, 2 =B7 20133 Milano (Italy)
>
>p. +39 02 23954 265
>f. +39 02 23954 465
>e. giorgio.mulas@cefriel.it
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: manet-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:manet-bounces@ietf.org]
> > On Behalf Of Claudio Lavecchia
> > Sent: mercoled=EC 15 dicembre 2004 19.24
> > To: manet@ietf.org
> > Subject: [manet] 802.11 ad-hoc mode and infrastructure mode
> >
> >
> > Hello you MANET ppl,
> >
> > After last week discussion (for those who red it) that I found very
> > helpful and interesting, I have another very general question:
> >
> > Trying to investigate the causes of the delay that I was experiencing
> > when running a multi-hop ftp session on a 802.11 mobile
> > ad-hoc network
> > (I recall the test scenario: 2 ipaqs equipped with Dell
> > Truemobile 1150
> > WLAN card and a laptop equipped withCisco Aironet 350, routing algo
> > OLSR, ad-hoc mode, no mobility) I found an interesting article
> > (http://dsonline.computer.org/0401/f/w1spotp.htm) claiming that five
> > factors highly influence 802.11 link quality and those factors are:
> > - users shadowing (blocking) node links due to their own body
> > orientation,
> > *- other people shadowing node links,
> > *- cars shadowing node links,
> > *- the wireless card model, and
> > *- node height.
> >
> > Now the question that comes to my mind is: why when I use a
> > WLAN card in
> > infrastructure mode and connect to an Access Point I do not
> > experience
> > any delay and when I run ad-hoc mode tests I do? What can be
> > the cause?
> >
> > Thank you in advance
> >
> > Claudio
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > manet mailing list
> > manet@ietf.org
> > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet
> >
>
>_______________________________________________
>manet mailing list
>manet@ietf.org
>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet



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As an afterthought to a previous post, I decided to post this on the list.
As part of the process of writing a paper we published last fall in SECON 
04 at Santa Clara (http://www.cs.toronto.edu/~andreslc/papers/SECON04.pdf), 
we have developed a number of new simulation models for indoor MANET 
simulations.
Although the current implementations of those models target ns2, we are 
slowly producing simulator-agnostic versions of some of these models.
You will probably be most interested (if interested at all) in the 
Attenuation Factor propagation model we have implemented, borrowed from 
some Rappaport+Seidel ideas.
We have assembled a software distribution in which you will find all of 
these models, plus some ns2 instrumentation extensions, plus hopefully 
understandable documentation. The distribution can be found at
http://www.cs.toronto.edu/~andreslc/publications.html

Thanks a lot
Andres Lagar Cavilla



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From: Leon Martin <leon70m@yahoo.com>
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Subject: [manet] 802.11/a/b/g transceiver
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Hi,

I found that some wireless LAN cards support
802.11a/b/g. These three standards operate at 2.4GHz
and 5GHz.If a single transceiver is used, there must
be an RF amplifier that works across several GHz. I
believe it is difficult and expensive. Does anyone
know how many receivers are used in such cards?

Thanks.

-- Leon


		
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Subject: [manet] WiNMee Workshop: Paper submission deadline extended,
	Dec. 24th
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(Our oppologies if you receive multiple copies of this CFP)


                           WiNMee Workshop
                           ---------------

                        http://www.winmee.org/

             1st workshop on Wireless Network Measurements
                      (co-located with WiOpt 2005)
                           April 3rd, 2005
                    Riva Del Garda, Trentino, Italy


The area of wireless networking has attracted a lot of interest in the
recent past. Nonetheless, evaluation of the performance of wireless networks
and the solutions that are designed to address the identified issues is
usually based on simulations.

Only recently did researchers turn their attention to actual testbeds for
similar tasks. Actual wireless testbeds are likely to prove very challenging
environments to work with due to the unique properties of the wireless
medium (in contrast to the well explored area of wired measurements and
experimentation).

The wireless medium is bound to behave differently depending on the location
of the testbed and reproducibility of results is no longer a given. Lastly,
solutions that have been previously proposed in the literature may be
infeasible in an operational environment if they require changes in the
network devices. As a result, effort has also been put into designing
wireless hardware where researchers can gain access to functionality that is
not typically exposed at the network driver level.

In this workshop we would like to solicit short, 6 pages, papers that report
on experiences obtained from operational wireless experiments in testbeds or
the field. Topics include:

      * operational experience on the performance of wireless networks
      * challenges with wireless measurements
      * experimental (in)validation of usually made assumptions in a wireless
        environment
      * metrics that would be required in a wireless network for performance
        evaluation or wireless network troubleshooting
      * experience from building/designing wireless networks
      * description of tools for building and/or managing wireless testbeds
        (e.g. wireless link emulation)
      * techniques for scaling the testbed
      * techniques for improving the repeatability of tests
      * techniques for validating the results obtained in the wireless
testbed
      * methods for simplifying experiment setup and reconfiguration
      * mobility pattern implementation


Important Dates:
----------------

Submission deadline:            Extended: December 24, 2004
Notification deadline:          January 28, 2004
Camera-ready due:               February 18, 2005


Workshop chairs:
----------------

Lakshman Krishnamurthy          Intel
Konstantina Papagiannaki        Intel Research Cambridge


Technical Program Committee:
----------------------------

Chadi Barakat			INRIA, France
Elizabeth M. Belding-Royer,     UC Santa Barbara, U.S.A.
Andrew Campbell,                Columbia University, U.S.A.
Edward Knightly,                Rice University, U.S.A.
Lakshman Krishnamurthy,         Intel Corporation, U.S.A.
Josep Mangues,                  CTTC, Spain
Jitu Padhye,                    Microsoft Research, U.S.A.
Konstantina Papagiannaki,       Intel Research Cambridge, U.K.
Kave Salamatian,                LIP6, France
Aruna Seneviratne,              National ICT, Australia
Suresh Singh,                   Portland State University, U.S.A.
Leandros Tassiulas,             University of Thessaly, Greece

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Subject: RE: [manet] 802.11/a/b/g transceiver
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 18:31:17 +0100
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Thread-Topic: [manet] 802.11/a/b/g transceiver
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From: "Giorgio Mulas" <giorgio.mulas@cefriel.it>
To: "Leon Martin" <leon70m@yahoo.com>, "MANET Newsgroup" <manet@ietf.org>
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Hi,
The type of WLAN cards you are asking are composed of:=20
- Media Access Controller (the same for a/b/g)
- Baseband processor (different for a/b/g, it is modulation dependent)
- Dual-band RF transceiver (5GHz vs. 2.4GHz)
- Dual-band power amplifier

For details, you should check whitepapers from WLAN card manufacturers:
E.g. Agere, Atheros, Broadcom, Engim, Texas Instruments (alphabetica and =
non-exaustive order :-) )=20

About the cost: I found on e-bay performing a quick search in about 5 =
seconds a dual-band card (a/b/g orinoco-clone) for 25 dollars...


Br.

Giorgio


------------------------------------------
Giorgio Mulas | Researcher

CEFRIEL =AD Politecnico di Milano
Via Fucini, 2 =B7 20133 Milano (Italy)

p. +39 02 23954 265
f. +39 02 23954 465
e. giorgio.mulas@cefriel.it


> -----Original Message-----
> From: manet-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:manet-bounces@ietf.org]=20
> On Behalf Of Leon Martin
> Sent: gioved=EC 16 dicembre 2004 17.53
> To: MANET Newsgroup
> Subject: [manet] 802.11/a/b/g transceiver
>=20
>=20
> Hi,
>=20
> I found that some wireless LAN cards support
> 802.11a/b/g. These three standards operate at 2.4GHz
> and 5GHz.If a single transceiver is used, there must
> be an RF amplifier that works across several GHz. I
> believe it is difficult and expensive. Does anyone
> know how many receivers are used in such cards?
>=20
> Thanks.
>=20
> -- Leon
>=20
>=20
> 	=09
> __________________________________=20
> Do you Yahoo!?=20
> Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone.=20
> http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> manet mailing list
> manet@ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet
>=20

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Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 11:41:21 -0600
From: David Young <dyoung@pobox.com>
To: MANET Newsgroup <manet@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [manet] 802.11/a/b/g transceiver
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On Thu, Dec 16, 2004 at 08:52:39AM -0800, Leon Martin wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I found that some wireless LAN cards support
> 802.11a/b/g. These three standards operate at 2.4GHz
> and 5GHz.If a single transceiver is used, there must
> be an RF amplifier that works across several GHz. I
> believe it is difficult and expensive. Does anyone
> know how many receivers are used in such cards?

There are two transceivers.

Dave

-- 
David Young             OJC Technologies
dyoung@ojctech.com      Urbana, IL * (217) 278-3933

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Where can I find source code for any LAN card drivers?  Also where can =
I
find datasheets on the chipsets?

-----Original Message-----
From: Giorgio Mulas [mailto:giorgio.mulas@cefriel.it]
Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 11:31 AM
To: Leon Martin; MANET Newsgroup
Subject: RE: [manet] 802.11/a/b/g transceiver


Hi,
The type of WLAN cards you are asking are composed of:=20
- Media Access Controller (the same for a/b/g)
- Baseband processor (different for a/b/g, it is modulation dependent)
- Dual-band RF transceiver (5GHz vs. 2.4GHz)
- Dual-band power amplifier

For details, you should check whitepapers from WLAN card manufacturers:
E.g. Agere, Atheros, Broadcom, Engim, Texas Instruments (alphabetica =
and
non-exaustive order :-) )=20

About the cost: I found on e-bay performing a quick search in about 5
seconds a dual-band card (a/b/g orinoco-clone) for 25 dollars...


Br.

Giorgio


------------------------------------------
Giorgio Mulas | Researcher

CEFRIEL =AD Politecnico di Milano
Via Fucini, 2 =B7 20133 Milano (Italy)

p. +39 02 23954 265
f. +39 02 23954 465
e. giorgio.mulas@cefriel.it


> -----Original Message-----
> From: manet-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:manet-bounces@ietf.org]=20
> On Behalf Of Leon Martin
> Sent: gioved=EC 16 dicembre 2004 17.53
> To: MANET Newsgroup
> Subject: [manet] 802.11/a/b/g transceiver
>=20
>=20
> Hi,
>=20
> I found that some wireless LAN cards support
> 802.11a/b/g. These three standards operate at 2.4GHz
> and 5GHz.If a single transceiver is used, there must
> be an RF amplifier that works across several GHz. I
> believe it is difficult and expensive. Does anyone
> know how many receivers are used in such cards?
>=20
> Thanks.
>=20
> -- Leon
>=20
>=20
> 	=09
> __________________________________=20
> Do you Yahoo!?=20
> Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone.=20
> http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> manet mailing list
> manet@ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet
>=20

_______________________________________________
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From: DANIEL BYRNE <daniel.byrne@adtran.com>
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Would a manet be practical on an airplane in flight?  Now that the FCC
allows wireless networks to operate on airplanes in flight, what would be
the method by which the plane connects to the ground communications towers
or to the sattelites?  A MANET approach would allow the plane to shift
gateway routers as it passes over different geographic regions.  Also
individual users on the plane can contribute in a ad-hoc manner with one
another, sharing files, movies, chatting, etc. What physical layer, long
haul, wireless technologies can be used to communicate with the sattelites
and towers?

_______________________________________________
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https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet


From manet-bounces@ietf.org  Thu Dec 16 15:24:08 2004
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Subject: RE: [manet] New FCC Regulation
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From: "Wujciak, James (US SSA)" <james.wujciak@baesystems.com>
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The routing protocol (level 3) should not have issues with "safety of
flight". The frequencies and power (level 2 & 1) used should not
interfere with the flight systems. Now if flight critical information is
to be sent through a manet network, it the would have to D0-178B (FAA)
compliant.

-----Original Message-----
From: manet-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:manet-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf
Of DANIEL BYRNE
Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 2:44 PM
To: MANET Newsgroup
Subject: [manet] New FCC Regulation

Would a manet be practical on an airplane in flight?  Now that the FCC
allows wireless networks to operate on airplanes in flight, what would
be
the method by which the plane connects to the ground communications
towers
or to the sattelites?  A MANET approach would allow the plane to shift
gateway routers as it passes over different geographic regions.  Also
individual users on the plane can contribute in a ad-hoc manner with one
another, sharing files, movies, chatting, etc. What physical layer, long
haul, wireless technologies can be used to communicate with the
sattelites
and towers?

_______________________________________________
manet mailing list
manet@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet

_______________________________________________
manet mailing list
manet@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet


From manet-bounces@ietf.org  Thu Dec 16 15:39:09 2004
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From: DANIEL BYRNE <daniel.byrne@adtran.com>
To: "'Wujciak, James (US SSA)'" <james.wujciak@baesystems.com>,
        MANET Newsgroup <manet@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [manet] New FCC Regulation
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I'm just interrested in hte prospect of web browsing capabilites for airline
passengers.

-----Original Message-----
From: Wujciak, James (US SSA) [mailto:james.wujciak@baesystems.com]
Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 2:09 PM
To: MANET Newsgroup
Subject: RE: [manet] New FCC Regulation


The routing protocol (level 3) should not have issues with "safety of
flight". The frequencies and power (level 2 & 1) used should not
interfere with the flight systems. Now if flight critical information is
to be sent through a manet network, it the would have to D0-178B (FAA)
compliant.

-----Original Message-----
From: manet-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:manet-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf
Of DANIEL BYRNE
Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 2:44 PM
To: MANET Newsgroup
Subject: [manet] New FCC Regulation

Would a manet be practical on an airplane in flight?  Now that the FCC
allows wireless networks to operate on airplanes in flight, what would
be
the method by which the plane connects to the ground communications
towers
or to the sattelites?  A MANET approach would allow the plane to shift
gateway routers as it passes over different geographic regions.  Also
individual users on the plane can contribute in a ad-hoc manner with one
another, sharing files, movies, chatting, etc. What physical layer, long
haul, wireless technologies can be used to communicate with the
sattelites
and towers?

_______________________________________________
manet mailing list
manet@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet

_______________________________________________
manet mailing list
manet@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet

_______________________________________________
manet mailing list
manet@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet


From manet-bounces@ietf.org  Thu Dec 16 16:05:24 2004
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Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 15:51:11 -0500
From: Kenneth Brayer <kb@mitre.org>
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To: DANIEL BYRNE <daniel.byrne@adtran.com>
Subject: Re: [manet] New FCC Regulation
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That is easy. Boeing has a product called Connexion. It is a Cisco 
Router on an Airplane with a satellite link to the ground. It is on 
Lufthansa with more to come. The FCC Regulation means they can put an 
802 net on board instead of running fibers to seats. Should make it come 
faster.
http://www.connexionbyboeing.com/
Ken
DANIEL BYRNE wrote:

>I'm just interrested in hte prospect of web browsing capabilites for airline
>passengers.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Wujciak, James (US SSA) [mailto:james.wujciak@baesystems.com]
>Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 2:09 PM
>To: MANET Newsgroup
>Subject: RE: [manet] New FCC Regulation
>
>
>The routing protocol (level 3) should not have issues with "safety of
>flight". The frequencies and power (level 2 & 1) used should not
>interfere with the flight systems. Now if flight critical information is
>to be sent through a manet network, it the would have to D0-178B (FAA)
>compliant.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: manet-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:manet-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf
>Of DANIEL BYRNE
>Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 2:44 PM
>To: MANET Newsgroup
>Subject: [manet] New FCC Regulation
>
>Would a manet be practical on an airplane in flight?  Now that the FCC
>allows wireless networks to operate on airplanes in flight, what would
>be
>the method by which the plane connects to the ground communications
>towers
>or to the sattelites?  A MANET approach would allow the plane to shift
>gateway routers as it passes over different geographic regions.  Also
>individual users on the plane can contribute in a ad-hoc manner with one
>another, sharing files, movies, chatting, etc. What physical layer, long
>haul, wireless technologies can be used to communicate with the
>sattelites
>and towers?
>
>_______________________________________________
>manet mailing list
>manet@ietf.org
>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet
>
>_______________________________________________
>manet mailing list
>manet@ietf.org
>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet
>
>_______________________________________________
>manet mailing list
>manet@ietf.org
>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet
>  
>

-- 
Kenneth Brayer
Fellow of the IEEE
M/S M370
The MITRE Corporation
202 Burlington Road
Bedford, MA 01730

e-mail: kb@mitre.org
tele: 781-271-5254
fax: 781-271-2841



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From manet-bounces@ietf.org  Thu Dec 16 16:33:41 2004
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Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 14:57:05 -0600
From: David Young <dyoung@pobox.com>
To: MANET Newsgroup <manet@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [manet] 802.11/a/b/g drivers
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On Thu, Dec 16, 2004 at 11:58:34AM -0600, DANIEL BYRNE wrote:
> Where can I find source code for any LAN card drivers?  Also where can I
> find datasheets on the chipsets?

Daniel,

You have to ask the manufacturers for datasheets.  Sometimes Google can
find a datasheet for you.  If you can find driver sources, they usually
provide more complete information than the datasheets.

As for driver sources: NetBSD has a growing set of drivers unified
under the net80211 framework.  You can browse the net80211 framework
at <http://cvsweb.netbsd.org/bsdweb.cgi/src/sys/net80211/>.
Find out how to download the sources at
<http://www.netbsd.org/Documentation/current/#downloading>.

You can browse the sources on the web at
<http://cvsweb.netbsd.org/bsdweb.cgi/src/sys/>.  Here are pointers to
the source files for particular drivers:

ADMtek
------
dev/ic/atwreg.h
dev/ic/atwvar.h
dev/ic/atw.c
dev/ic/rf3000reg.h
dev/ic/si4136reg.h

AMD
---
dev/ic/awi.c
dev/ic/awireg.h
dev/ic/awivar.h

Atheros
-------
dev/ic/ath.c
dev/ic/athcompat.c
dev/ic/athcompat.h
dev/ic/athioctl.h
dev/ic/athvar.h

Cisco/Aironet
-------------
dev/ic/an.c
dev/ic/anreg.h
dev/ic/anvar.h

Intel
-----
dev/pci/if_ipw.c
dev/pci/if_ipwreg.h
dev/pci/if_ipwvar.h

Lucent/Prism
------------
dev/ic/wi.c
dev/ic/wireg.c
dev/ic/wivar.c

Realtek (work in progress)
-------
dev/ic/rtw.c
dev/ic/rtwphy.c
dev/ic/rtwphy.h
dev/ic/rtwphyio.c
dev/ic/rtwphyio.h
dev/ic/rtwreg.h
dev/ic/rtwvar.h
dev/ic/sa2400reg.h
dev/ic/max2820reg.h

There are drivers for Prism54 and ACX-100 in-progress.

Dave

-- 
David Young             OJC Technologies
dyoung@ojctech.com      Urbana, IL * (217) 278-3933

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From manet-bounces@ietf.org  Thu Dec 16 17:01:56 2004
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	Thu, 16 Dec 2004 13:42:22 -0800
Subject: RE: [manet] New FCC Regulation
From: Rex Buddenberg <budden@nps.navy.mil>
To: DANIEL BYRNE <daniel.byrne@adtran.com>
In-Reply-To: <39B01E2189D99F4B8C9612462DB3922A153B96EB@srv-exchange.adtran.com>
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For this kind of app, MANET has little applicability or value added.

Inside aircraft. MANET is designed to handle network topology
volatility.  That volatility will certainly not occur inside the
aircraft.  Even if you shift back and forth from one AP to another, that
doesn't entail changing routing tables.  

Outside aircraft -- the radio-WAN.  While aircraft are obviously mobile
platforms, that doesn't always translate into either layer 2 or layer 3
mobility issues -- it's entirely possible for an aircraft to take off
and fly to a destination and never change routing topology at all (e.g.
remains under the same satellite footprint for the entire flight).  

On Thu, 2004-12-16 at 12:31, DANIEL BYRNE wrote:
> I'm just interrested in hte prospect of web browsing capabilites for airline
> passengers.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Wujciak, James (US SSA) [mailto:james.wujciak@baesystems.com]
> Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 2:09 PM
> To: MANET Newsgroup
> Subject: RE: [manet] New FCC Regulation
> 
> 
> The routing protocol (level 3) should not have issues with "safety of
> flight". The frequencies and power (level 2 & 1) used should not
> interfere with the flight systems. Now if flight critical information is
> to be sent through a manet network, it the would have to D0-178B (FAA)
> compliant.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: manet-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:manet-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf
> Of DANIEL BYRNE
> Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 2:44 PM
> To: MANET Newsgroup
> Subject: [manet] New FCC Regulation
> 
> Would a manet be practical on an airplane in flight?  Now that the FCC
> allows wireless networks to operate on airplanes in flight, what would
> be
> the method by which the plane connects to the ground communications
> towers
> or to the sattelites?  A MANET approach would allow the plane to shift
> gateway routers as it passes over different geographic regions.  Also
> individual users on the plane can contribute in a ad-hoc manner with one
> another, sharing files, movies, chatting, etc. What physical layer, long
> haul, wireless technologies can be used to communicate with the
> sattelites
> and towers?
> 
> _______________________________________________
> manet mailing list
> manet@ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet
> 
> _______________________________________________
> manet mailing list
> manet@ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet
> 
> _______________________________________________
> manet mailing list
> manet@ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet
-- 

b



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From manet-bounces@ietf.org  Thu Dec 16 17:07:34 2004
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From: DANIEL BYRNE <daniel.byrne@adtran.com>
To: MANET Newsgroup <manet@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [manet] New FCC Regulation
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Volatility is indeed possible inside the airplane as different people log
onto and off of the network and move around the plane.  MANET would be
beneficial in reducing the load on the central access point for node to node
communications.  On the WAN port, while it might not change routing
topologies, it certainly can and will on a # of transcontinental flights.
Why not have a MANET in place handling this low frequency volatility?

-----Original Message-----
From: Rex Buddenberg [mailto:budden@nps.navy.mil]
Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 3:42 PM
To: DANIEL BYRNE
Cc: 'Wujciak, James (US SSA)'; MANET Newsgroup
Subject: RE: [manet] New FCC Regulation


For this kind of app, MANET has little applicability or value added.

Inside aircraft. MANET is designed to handle network topology
volatility.  That volatility will certainly not occur inside the
aircraft.  Even if you shift back and forth from one AP to another, that
doesn't entail changing routing tables.  

Outside aircraft -- the radio-WAN.  While aircraft are obviously mobile
platforms, that doesn't always translate into either layer 2 or layer 3
mobility issues -- it's entirely possible for an aircraft to take off
and fly to a destination and never change routing topology at all (e.g.
remains under the same satellite footprint for the entire flight).  

On Thu, 2004-12-16 at 12:31, DANIEL BYRNE wrote:
> I'm just interrested in hte prospect of web browsing capabilites for
airline
> passengers.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Wujciak, James (US SSA) [mailto:james.wujciak@baesystems.com]
> Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 2:09 PM
> To: MANET Newsgroup
> Subject: RE: [manet] New FCC Regulation
> 
> 
> The routing protocol (level 3) should not have issues with "safety of
> flight". The frequencies and power (level 2 & 1) used should not
> interfere with the flight systems. Now if flight critical information is
> to be sent through a manet network, it the would have to D0-178B (FAA)
> compliant.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: manet-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:manet-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf
> Of DANIEL BYRNE
> Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 2:44 PM
> To: MANET Newsgroup
> Subject: [manet] New FCC Regulation
> 
> Would a manet be practical on an airplane in flight?  Now that the FCC
> allows wireless networks to operate on airplanes in flight, what would
> be
> the method by which the plane connects to the ground communications
> towers
> or to the sattelites?  A MANET approach would allow the plane to shift
> gateway routers as it passes over different geographic regions.  Also
> individual users on the plane can contribute in a ad-hoc manner with one
> another, sharing files, movies, chatting, etc. What physical layer, long
> haul, wireless technologies can be used to communicate with the
> sattelites
> and towers?
> 
> _______________________________________________
> manet mailing list
> manet@ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet
> 
> _______________________________________________
> manet mailing list
> manet@ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet
> 
> _______________________________________________
> manet mailing list
> manet@ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet
-- 

b


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From manet-bounces@ietf.org  Thu Dec 16 17:31:35 2004
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From: DANIEL BYRNE <daniel.byrne@adtran.com>
To: MANET Newsgroup <manet@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [manet] New FCC Regulation
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 16:18:56 -0600
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MANETs on planes also open up the possibility of plane to plane
communication between passengers on passing airlines without the need of an
intervening satellite.


-----Original Message-----
From: DANIEL BYRNE [mailto:daniel.byrne@adtran.com]
Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 3:55 PM
To: MANET Newsgroup
Subject: RE: [manet] New FCC Regulation


Volatility is indeed possible inside the airplane as different people log
onto and off of the network and move around the plane.  MANET would be
beneficial in reducing the load on the central access point for node to node
communications.  On the WAN port, while it might not change routing
topologies, it certainly can and will on a # of transcontinental flights.
Why not have a MANET in place handling this low frequency volatility?

-----Original Message-----
From: Rex Buddenberg [mailto:budden@nps.navy.mil]
Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 3:42 PM
To: DANIEL BYRNE
Cc: 'Wujciak, James (US SSA)'; MANET Newsgroup
Subject: RE: [manet] New FCC Regulation


For this kind of app, MANET has little applicability or value added.

Inside aircraft. MANET is designed to handle network topology
volatility.  That volatility will certainly not occur inside the
aircraft.  Even if you shift back and forth from one AP to another, that
doesn't entail changing routing tables.  

Outside aircraft -- the radio-WAN.  While aircraft are obviously mobile
platforms, that doesn't always translate into either layer 2 or layer 3
mobility issues -- it's entirely possible for an aircraft to take off
and fly to a destination and never change routing topology at all (e.g.
remains under the same satellite footprint for the entire flight).  

On Thu, 2004-12-16 at 12:31, DANIEL BYRNE wrote:
> I'm just interrested in hte prospect of web browsing capabilites for
airline
> passengers.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Wujciak, James (US SSA) [mailto:james.wujciak@baesystems.com]
> Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 2:09 PM
> To: MANET Newsgroup
> Subject: RE: [manet] New FCC Regulation
> 
> 
> The routing protocol (level 3) should not have issues with "safety of
> flight". The frequencies and power (level 2 & 1) used should not
> interfere with the flight systems. Now if flight critical information is
> to be sent through a manet network, it the would have to D0-178B (FAA)
> compliant.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: manet-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:manet-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf
> Of DANIEL BYRNE
> Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 2:44 PM
> To: MANET Newsgroup
> Subject: [manet] New FCC Regulation
> 
> Would a manet be practical on an airplane in flight?  Now that the FCC
> allows wireless networks to operate on airplanes in flight, what would
> be
> the method by which the plane connects to the ground communications
> towers
> or to the sattelites?  A MANET approach would allow the plane to shift
> gateway routers as it passes over different geographic regions.  Also
> individual users on the plane can contribute in a ad-hoc manner with one
> another, sharing files, movies, chatting, etc. What physical layer, long
> haul, wireless technologies can be used to communicate with the
> sattelites
> and towers?
> 
> _______________________________________________
> manet mailing list
> manet@ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet
> 
> _______________________________________________
> manet mailing list
> manet@ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet
> 
> _______________________________________________
> manet mailing list
> manet@ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet
-- 

b


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From: David Young <dyoung@pobox.com>
To: MANET Newsgroup <manet@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [manet] New FCC Regulation
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On Thu, Dec 16, 2004 at 04:18:56PM -0600, DANIEL BYRNE wrote:
> MANETs on planes also open up the possibility of plane to plane
> communication between passengers on passing airlines without the need of an
> intervening satellite.

Yeah.  Contacting people over long distances through an airliner MANET
might be a popular amusement for bored kids on long flights.  (For some
kids, even a one-hour flight might be "long.")  Think "QSL cards for
the Internet age."  Even adults would get a kick out of it.

On intra-continental flights, connecting opportunistically to low-latency
Internet connections might be a popular MANET application.

Dave

-- 
David Young             OJC Technologies
dyoung@ojctech.com      Urbana, IL * (217) 278-3933

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Subject: RE: [manet] New FCC Regulation
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From: "Frye, Robert J (US SSA)" <robert.frye@baesystems.com>
To: "DANIEL BYRNE" <daniel.byrne@adtran.com>,
        "MANET Newsgroup" <manet@ietf.org>
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This is more of NEMO than MANET, and the Access Point running in
infrastructure mode means it is not an Ad-Hoc network, even tho the
end-user nodes come & go.  The only added capability MANET could provide
would be either the airplane-airplane discovery & in-flight transfer
(likely NOT what most people would want!), or intra-airplane moving
around between different sections of the aircraft with multiple APs on
board and nodes (PDAs, laptops, ...) remaining active while traveling.
For the latter, it's more likely that the airline would put a single AP
approximately mid-body to serve passengers the length of the craft.

Rob Frye
BAE SYSTEMS
CNIR
11487 Sunset Hills Road
Reston, VA 20190
(v)703-668-4520
(m)571-331-2846
(e)robert.frye@baesystems.com
=20

-----Original Message-----
From: manet-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:manet-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf
Of DANIEL BYRNE
Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 5:19 PM
To: MANET Newsgroup
Subject: RE: [manet] New FCC Regulation

MANETs on planes also open up the possibility of plane to plane
communication between passengers on passing airlines without the need of
an
intervening satellite.


-----Original Message-----
From: DANIEL BYRNE [mailto:daniel.byrne@adtran.com]
Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 3:55 PM
To: MANET Newsgroup
Subject: RE: [manet] New FCC Regulation


Volatility is indeed possible inside the airplane as different people
log
onto and off of the network and move around the plane.  MANET would be
beneficial in reducing the load on the central access point for node to
node
communications.  On the WAN port, while it might not change routing
topologies, it certainly can and will on a # of transcontinental
flights.
Why not have a MANET in place handling this low frequency volatility?

-----Original Message-----
From: Rex Buddenberg [mailto:budden@nps.navy.mil]
Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 3:42 PM
To: DANIEL BYRNE
Cc: 'Wujciak, James (US SSA)'; MANET Newsgroup
Subject: RE: [manet] New FCC Regulation


For this kind of app, MANET has little applicability or value added.

Inside aircraft. MANET is designed to handle network topology
volatility.  That volatility will certainly not occur inside the
aircraft.  Even if you shift back and forth from one AP to another, that
doesn't entail changing routing tables. =20

Outside aircraft -- the radio-WAN.  While aircraft are obviously mobile
platforms, that doesn't always translate into either layer 2 or layer 3
mobility issues -- it's entirely possible for an aircraft to take off
and fly to a destination and never change routing topology at all (e.g.
remains under the same satellite footprint for the entire flight). =20

On Thu, 2004-12-16 at 12:31, DANIEL BYRNE wrote:
> I'm just interrested in hte prospect of web browsing capabilites for
airline
> passengers.
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Wujciak, James (US SSA) [mailto:james.wujciak@baesystems.com]
> Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 2:09 PM
> To: MANET Newsgroup
> Subject: RE: [manet] New FCC Regulation
>=20
>=20
> The routing protocol (level 3) should not have issues with "safety of
> flight". The frequencies and power (level 2 & 1) used should not
> interfere with the flight systems. Now if flight critical information
is
> to be sent through a manet network, it the would have to D0-178B (FAA)
> compliant.
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: manet-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:manet-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf
> Of DANIEL BYRNE
> Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 2:44 PM
> To: MANET Newsgroup
> Subject: [manet] New FCC Regulation
>=20
> Would a manet be practical on an airplane in flight?  Now that the FCC
> allows wireless networks to operate on airplanes in flight, what would
> be
> the method by which the plane connects to the ground communications
> towers
> or to the sattelites?  A MANET approach would allow the plane to shift
> gateway routers as it passes over different geographic regions.  Also
> individual users on the plane can contribute in a ad-hoc manner with
one
> another, sharing files, movies, chatting, etc. What physical layer,
long
> haul, wireless technologies can be used to communicate with the
> sattelites
> and towers?
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> manet mailing list
> manet@ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> manet mailing list
> manet@ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> manet mailing list
> manet@ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet
--=20

b


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Subject: [manet] Re: How to do simulation with Ns2 for hybrid wireless
	network?
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HyunWook Cha <jafy <at> etri.re.kr> writes:

> 
> Hi.
> 
> I am interested in your job. I have a plan to simulate MIPv6 with AODV
> for the performance comparison with my internet draft regarding internet
> connectivity. 
> 
> Please see my comments below.
> 
> => You can find test script test-suite-WLtutorial.tcl in
> ~/ns-ver/tcl/test directory. In this file, you can refer Test/wireless3
> class. As you can see, you can do what you want using -mobileIP ,
> -adhocRouting, and -wiredRouting options assigned with ON, AODV, and ON
> respectively. When mobileIP and wiredRouting are set to ON, the instvar
> nodetype of Node/MobileNode created by "create-wireless-node" is set to
> MIPBS (get-nodetype called in Node instproc init).Then, makemip-NewMIPBS
> is called in Node/MobileNode instproc init and Agent/MIPBS instance is
> created and attached to the mobilenode. 
> 
> Please, let me know if you find another problems. 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> HyunWook Cha
> 

Hello, HyunWook 

Currently my work is to integrate MIPv6 with AODV.
I using Mobiwan extension , but seems Mobiwan uses a new protocol Network with -
adhocRouting.
Does you have any experience about this job?

Thank you.
-Joe 




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From manet-bounces@ietf.org  Fri Dec 17 00:30:36 2004
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Subject: [manet] Several questions about linux driver for wireless cards!
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Dear all,

I am realatively new to linux and wireless card. I am doing wireless
testbed experiments to evaluate the performance of the different routing
protocols (e.g.,AODV,DSR). I have the followoing questions before I set up
my wireless testbed, and I'll appreciate your help in this regard.


1. I am looking for wireless cards that are most compatiable to the linux
system? Can anyone give some suggestion? (It would be better if the
wireless card can support 802.11g.)

2. Can anyone suggest which linux system will support wireless card
better?

3. Other requirements to this wireless card include capability to turn
on/off RTS/CTS, and to control transmission power.

4. Is there any card that can let you change the sensing threshold of
CSMA?

Any information is greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance!

Qian



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From manet-bounces@ietf.org  Fri Dec 17 03:50:15 2004
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From: TAING Nguon <romdoul2002@yahoo.com>
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Subject: [manet] Changing DSR protocol
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Dear all, 

I am new to NS2. I want to implement a simulation
program by using DSR protocol and I found that there
are dsr directory under ns-2xxx and dsr.tcl file under
ns-2xxx/mobility. Furthermore, I read through DSR ietf
internet draft, I could not find any thing about
modification. Could any one please tell me whether we
can modify DSR algorithm?

Regards,

Nguon





		
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From manet-bounces@ietf.org  Fri Dec 17 09:28:23 2004
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Thread-Topic: manet Digest, Vol 8, Issue 18
Thread-Index: AcTj06O8pZZUUr+eQSuqxysdnu4DpwAbNBOg
From: "Lorenzo Della Nebbia" <Lorenzo.DellaNebbia@students.cefriel.it>
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Subject: [manet] Implementation of S-AODV.
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Hi=20
 I'd like to know if exists an implementation of Secure Ad hoc On-Demand =
Distance Vector (SAODV) Routing, and in this case, where I can find it.

Thank you in advance
-- Lorenzo.

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Instead of the various half-baked ideas of tenous usefulness floating
around this list, folks might want to look at some interesting work that
has already been done on applying ad hoc networking in a flight
environment:

Maggie X. Cheng and Yiyuan J. Zhao.  "Connectivity of Ad Hoc Networks for
Advanced Air Traffic Management". Journal of Aerospace Computing, Information,
and Communication, volume 1, May 2004.

This can be found in the electronic library at the www.aiaa.org website.
The focus is on air traffic management, which is a much different (and
more important) beast than providing user services.

-Wes

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From manet-bounces@ietf.org  Fri Dec 17 10:33:41 2004
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Subject: [manet] Whats wrong with multicasting
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Hi,
Yes, it is a simple question. What's wrong with multicasting in ad-hoc netw=
orks? Why can't we apply a groupcast like in OSPF?


***********************************************
A train station is the place where trains stop,
A bus station is the place where buses stop,
On my desk they installed a workstation !!
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From: DANIEL BYRNE <daniel.byrne@adtran.com>
To: "'Frye, Robert J (US SSA)'" <robert.frye@baesystems.com>,
        MANET Newsgroup <manet@ietf.org>
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What's a NEMO?

-----Original Message-----
From: Frye, Robert J (US SSA) [mailto:robert.frye@baesystems.com]
Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 6:37 PM
To: DANIEL BYRNE; MANET Newsgroup
Subject: RE: [manet] New FCC Regulation


This is more of NEMO than MANET, and the Access Point running in
infrastructure mode means it is not an Ad-Hoc network, even tho the
end-user nodes come & go.  The only added capability MANET could provide
would be either the airplane-airplane discovery & in-flight transfer
(likely NOT what most people would want!), or intra-airplane moving
around between different sections of the aircraft with multiple APs on
board and nodes (PDAs, laptops, ...) remaining active while traveling.
For the latter, it's more likely that the airline would put a single AP
approximately mid-body to serve passengers the length of the craft.

Rob Frye
BAE SYSTEMS
CNIR
11487 Sunset Hills Road
Reston, VA 20190
(v)703-668-4520
(m)571-331-2846
(e)robert.frye@baesystems.com
 

-----Original Message-----
From: manet-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:manet-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf
Of DANIEL BYRNE
Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 5:19 PM
To: MANET Newsgroup
Subject: RE: [manet] New FCC Regulation

MANETs on planes also open up the possibility of plane to plane
communication between passengers on passing airlines without the need of
an
intervening satellite.


-----Original Message-----
From: DANIEL BYRNE [mailto:daniel.byrne@adtran.com]
Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 3:55 PM
To: MANET Newsgroup
Subject: RE: [manet] New FCC Regulation


Volatility is indeed possible inside the airplane as different people
log
onto and off of the network and move around the plane.  MANET would be
beneficial in reducing the load on the central access point for node to
node
communications.  On the WAN port, while it might not change routing
topologies, it certainly can and will on a # of transcontinental
flights.
Why not have a MANET in place handling this low frequency volatility?

-----Original Message-----
From: Rex Buddenberg [mailto:budden@nps.navy.mil]
Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 3:42 PM
To: DANIEL BYRNE
Cc: 'Wujciak, James (US SSA)'; MANET Newsgroup
Subject: RE: [manet] New FCC Regulation


For this kind of app, MANET has little applicability or value added.

Inside aircraft. MANET is designed to handle network topology
volatility.  That volatility will certainly not occur inside the
aircraft.  Even if you shift back and forth from one AP to another, that
doesn't entail changing routing tables.  

Outside aircraft -- the radio-WAN.  While aircraft are obviously mobile
platforms, that doesn't always translate into either layer 2 or layer 3
mobility issues -- it's entirely possible for an aircraft to take off
and fly to a destination and never change routing topology at all (e.g.
remains under the same satellite footprint for the entire flight).  

On Thu, 2004-12-16 at 12:31, DANIEL BYRNE wrote:
> I'm just interrested in hte prospect of web browsing capabilites for
airline
> passengers.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Wujciak, James (US SSA) [mailto:james.wujciak@baesystems.com]
> Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 2:09 PM
> To: MANET Newsgroup
> Subject: RE: [manet] New FCC Regulation
> 
> 
> The routing protocol (level 3) should not have issues with "safety of
> flight". The frequencies and power (level 2 & 1) used should not
> interfere with the flight systems. Now if flight critical information
is
> to be sent through a manet network, it the would have to D0-178B (FAA)
> compliant.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: manet-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:manet-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf
> Of DANIEL BYRNE
> Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 2:44 PM
> To: MANET Newsgroup
> Subject: [manet] New FCC Regulation
> 
> Would a manet be practical on an airplane in flight?  Now that the FCC
> allows wireless networks to operate on airplanes in flight, what would
> be
> the method by which the plane connects to the ground communications
> towers
> or to the sattelites?  A MANET approach would allow the plane to shift
> gateway routers as it passes over different geographic regions.  Also
> individual users on the plane can contribute in a ad-hoc manner with
one
> another, sharing files, movies, chatting, etc. What physical layer,
long
> haul, wireless technologies can be used to communicate with the
> sattelites
> and towers?
> 
> _______________________________________________
> manet mailing list
> manet@ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet
> 
> _______________________________________________
> manet mailing list
> manet@ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet
> 
> _______________________________________________
> manet mailing list
> manet@ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet
-- 

b


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From manet-bounces@ietf.org  Fri Dec 17 10:52:23 2004
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From: DANIEL BYRNE <daniel.byrne@adtran.com>
To: "'weddy@grc.nasa.gov'" <weddy@grc.nasa.gov>, manet@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [manet] New FCC Regulation
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While air traffic management might be more "important", consumer
applications drive the market and drive change.  Air traffic management will
never change to an ad-hoc  system unless the rest of the world is using
ad-hoc systems to begin with.  Government implementation of new technology
is very slow unless it addresss a national secruity issue.  Also  half-baked
ideas, seat of the pants type stuff are often the ideas that change the
world.  Often it is intuition that guides revalation and new avenues of
thought.  While commercial Ad-Hoc implementations might not be "important",
once the seed of thought is out their it often inspires more creative
thought in other areas.  That spread of creativity cannont happen if ideas
are kept silent for fear of denegrating character attacks, worries about
"importance" or other such inconsequential concerns.  A newsgroup thus is
the perfect place to seed new ideas so that the idea may spread through a
community of like minded individuals.


-----Original Message-----
From: Wesley Eddy [mailto:weddy@grc.nasa.gov]
Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 8:50 AM
To: manet@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [manet] New FCC Regulation


Instead of the various half-baked ideas of tenous usefulness floating
around this list, folks might want to look at some interesting work that
has already been done on applying ad hoc networking in a flight
environment:

Maggie X. Cheng and Yiyuan J. Zhao.  "Connectivity of Ad Hoc Networks for
Advanced Air Traffic Management". Journal of Aerospace Computing,
Information,
and Communication, volume 1, May 2004.

This can be found in the electronic library at the www.aiaa.org website.
The focus is on air traffic management, which is a much different (and
more important) beast than providing user services.

-Wes

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From manet-bounces@ietf.org  Fri Dec 17 10:55:26 2004
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From: DANIEL BYRNE <daniel.byrne@adtran.com>
To: manet@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [manet] Several questions about linux driver for wireless car ds!
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 09:37:41 -0600
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What is the best performing Ad-Hoc routing protocol in the Ad-Hoc world right now?


-----Original Message-----
From: manet-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:manet-bounces@ietf.org]On Behalf Of
Qian Wu
Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 11:23 PM
To: manet@ietf.org
Subject: [manet] Several questions about linux driver for wireless
cards!


Dear all,

I am realatively new to linux and wireless card. I am doing wireless
testbed experiments to evaluate the performance of the different routing
protocols (e.g.,AODV,DSR). I have the followoing questions before I set up
my wireless testbed, and I'll appreciate your help in this regard.


1. I am looking for wireless cards that are most compatiable to the linux
system? Can anyone give some suggestion? (It would be better if the
wireless card can support 802.11g.)

2. Can anyone suggest which linux system will support wireless card
better?

3. Other requirements to this wireless card include capability to turn
on/off RTS/CTS, and to control transmission power.

4. Is there any card that can let you change the sensing threshold of
CSMA?

Any information is greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance!

Qian



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From manet-bounces@ietf.org  Fri Dec 17 11:16:28 2004
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From: "John Mullen" <jomullen@nmsu.edu>
To: <manet@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [manet] New FCC Regulation
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 08:37:15 -0700
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Hi,

This is what bothers me.  Given that there is a need to communicate for the
reason of air traffic management and that wireless signals might interfere
with navigation equipment (at least that has been the claim), can any sort
of wireless network be supported in the cabin of an airplane without causing
some undesirable side-effect, such as, say, planes falling from the sky?  

Might it make more sense to use a wired connection from the laptop to a port
in a seat back and leave the wireless bit to communications between the
airplane and other nodes or hubs?  That way, the wireless element can be
maintained and checked to assure there is no conflict and, in the case of an
emergency, all wireless emanations can be cut with a single switch, rather
than making an announcement and waiting for all the passengers with wireless
cards to comply.

Then again, maybe I worry too much.

John Mullen


-----Original Message-----
From: manet-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:manet-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
Wesley Eddy
Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 7:50 AM
To: manet@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [manet] New FCC Regulation

Instead of the various half-baked ideas of tenous usefulness floating around
this list, folks might want to look at some interesting work that has
already been done on applying ad hoc networking in a flight
environment:

Maggie X. Cheng and Yiyuan J. Zhao.  "Connectivity of Ad Hoc Networks for
Advanced Air Traffic Management". Journal of Aerospace Computing,
Information, and Communication, volume 1, May 2004.

This can be found in the electronic library at the www.aiaa.org website.
The focus is on air traffic management, which is a much different (and more
important) beast than providing user services.

-Wes


_______________________________________________
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https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet


From manet-bounces@ietf.org  Fri Dec 17 16:48:45 2004
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	Fri, 17 Dec 2004 12:59:52 PST
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 12:59:52 -0800 (PST)
From: Ali Khayam <ali_khayam@yahoo.com>
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Subject: [manet] Re: Implementation of S-AODV.
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Hi Lorenzo,

I was looking into SAODV recently and asked the
authors for their implementation. They said that they
have lost most part of their original ns2 code. You
will probably have to do the implementation yourself.

thanks,
  ali=20

>
<2276557F1C7668499FF59EC75B84624FC4C432@salsa.cefriel.it>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset=3D"iso-8859-1"
>=20
> Hi=20
>  I'd like to know if exists an implementation of
> Secure Ad hoc On-Demand Distance Vector (SAODV)
> Routing, and in this case, where I can find it.
>=20
> Thank you in advance
> -- Lorenzo.
>=20
>=20



	=09
__________________________________=20
Do you Yahoo!?=20
All your favorites on one personal page =96 Try My Yahoo!
http://my.yahoo.com=20

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Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 13:02:51 -0800 (PST)
From: Ali Khayam <ali_khayam@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [manet] Changing DSR protocol
To: manet@ietf.org
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Hi Nguon,

This link http://www.geocities.com/b_j_hogan/ contains
FAQs about the NS2 DSR implementation.

thanks,
  ali


Message: 2
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 00:45:09 -0800 (PST)
From: TAING Nguon <romdoul2002@yahoo.com>
Subject: [manet] Changing DSR protocol
To: manet@ietf.org
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<20041217084509.84020.qmail@web51602.mail.yahoo.com>
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Dear all, 

I am new to NS2. I want to implement a simulation
program by using DSR protocol and I found that there
are dsr directory under ns-2xxx and dsr.tcl file under
ns-2xxx/mobility. Furthermore, I read through DSR ietf
internet draft, I could not find any thing about
modification. Could any one please tell me whether we
can modify DSR algorithm?

Regards,

Nguon


		
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Subject: RE: [manet] New FCC Regulation
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 17:23:33 -0500
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Thread-Topic: [manet] New FCC Regulation
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From: "Frye, Robert J (US SSA)" <robert.frye@baesystems.com>
To: "DANIEL BYRNE" <daniel.byrne@adtran.com>,
        "MANET Newsgroup" <manet@ietf.org>
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NEMO =3D NEtwork MObility.  See
<http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/nemo-charter.html> and
<http://www.mobilenetworks.org/nemo/>.

Rob Frye
BAE SYSTEMS
CNIR
11487 Sunset Hills Road
Reston, VA 20190
(v)703-668-4520
(m)571-331-2846
(e)robert.frye@baesystems.com
=20

-----Original Message-----
From: DANIEL BYRNE [mailto:daniel.byrne@adtran.com]=20
Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 10:34 AM
To: Frye, Robert J (US SSA); MANET Newsgroup
Subject: RE: [manet] New FCC Regulation

What's a NEMO?

-----Original Message-----
From: Frye, Robert J (US SSA) [mailto:robert.frye@baesystems.com]
Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 6:37 PM
To: DANIEL BYRNE; MANET Newsgroup
Subject: RE: [manet] New FCC Regulation


This is more of NEMO than MANET, and the Access Point running in
infrastructure mode means it is not an Ad-Hoc network, even tho the
end-user nodes come & go.  The only added capability MANET could provide
would be either the airplane-airplane discovery & in-flight transfer
(likely NOT what most people would want!), or intra-airplane moving
around between different sections of the aircraft with multiple APs on
board and nodes (PDAs, laptops, ...) remaining active while traveling.
For the latter, it's more likely that the airline would put a single AP
approximately mid-body to serve passengers the length of the craft.

Rob Frye
BAE SYSTEMS
CNIR
11487 Sunset Hills Road
Reston, VA 20190
(v)703-668-4520
(m)571-331-2846
(e)robert.frye@baesystems.com
=20

-----Original Message-----
From: manet-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:manet-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf
Of DANIEL BYRNE
Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 5:19 PM
To: MANET Newsgroup
Subject: RE: [manet] New FCC Regulation

MANETs on planes also open up the possibility of plane to plane
communication between passengers on passing airlines without the need of
an
intervening satellite.


-----Original Message-----
From: DANIEL BYRNE [mailto:daniel.byrne@adtran.com]
Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 3:55 PM
To: MANET Newsgroup
Subject: RE: [manet] New FCC Regulation


Volatility is indeed possible inside the airplane as different people
log
onto and off of the network and move around the plane.  MANET would be
beneficial in reducing the load on the central access point for node to
node
communications.  On the WAN port, while it might not change routing
topologies, it certainly can and will on a # of transcontinental
flights.
Why not have a MANET in place handling this low frequency volatility?

-----Original Message-----
From: Rex Buddenberg [mailto:budden@nps.navy.mil]
Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 3:42 PM
To: DANIEL BYRNE
Cc: 'Wujciak, James (US SSA)'; MANET Newsgroup
Subject: RE: [manet] New FCC Regulation


For this kind of app, MANET has little applicability or value added.

Inside aircraft. MANET is designed to handle network topology
volatility.  That volatility will certainly not occur inside the
aircraft.  Even if you shift back and forth from one AP to another, that
doesn't entail changing routing tables. =20

Outside aircraft -- the radio-WAN.  While aircraft are obviously mobile
platforms, that doesn't always translate into either layer 2 or layer 3
mobility issues -- it's entirely possible for an aircraft to take off
and fly to a destination and never change routing topology at all (e.g.
remains under the same satellite footprint for the entire flight). =20

On Thu, 2004-12-16 at 12:31, DANIEL BYRNE wrote:
> I'm just interrested in hte prospect of web browsing capabilites for
airline
> passengers.
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Wujciak, James (US SSA) [mailto:james.wujciak@baesystems.com]
> Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 2:09 PM
> To: MANET Newsgroup
> Subject: RE: [manet] New FCC Regulation
>=20
>=20
> The routing protocol (level 3) should not have issues with "safety of
> flight". The frequencies and power (level 2 & 1) used should not
> interfere with the flight systems. Now if flight critical information
is
> to be sent through a manet network, it the would have to D0-178B (FAA)
> compliant.
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: manet-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:manet-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf
> Of DANIEL BYRNE
> Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 2:44 PM
> To: MANET Newsgroup
> Subject: [manet] New FCC Regulation
>=20
> Would a manet be practical on an airplane in flight?  Now that the FCC
> allows wireless networks to operate on airplanes in flight, what would
> be
> the method by which the plane connects to the ground communications
> towers
> or to the sattelites?  A MANET approach would allow the plane to shift
> gateway routers as it passes over different geographic regions.  Also
> individual users on the plane can contribute in a ad-hoc manner with
one
> another, sharing files, movies, chatting, etc. What physical layer,
long
> haul, wireless technologies can be used to communicate with the
> sattelites
> and towers?
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> manet mailing list
> manet@ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> manet mailing list
> manet@ietf.org
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>=20
> _______________________________________________
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--=20

b


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<P>=0A&nbsp; <BR>=0AHi,<BR>=0A I am doing research on my own in QoS aspects=
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dback.<BR>=0A<BR>=0A If anybody is working in Routing or MAC protocols in W=
SN kindly let me know. If you can give me details of the research problem, =
I will come up with a possible solution. We can discuss our ideas and proce=
ed towards a publication.<BR>=0A<BR>=0AWaiting for your reply,<BR>=0Agp.<BR=
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Subject: [manet] The mecahanism of sending beacon in MANET
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Dear all,

In my understanding, every node should send the beacon
packet in periodic time. This beacon is used for
declaring that the node is in transmission range of
another node. I want to know about the mechanism of
sending beacon in MANET. How to avoid collision of
beacon and/or data packet among nodes ?

Thank you in advance.
Best regards,
Sigit B. WIbowo


		
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Subject: [manet] [HELP]..Problem AODV-UU in ns-2.27
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  Hi all,
     I'm trying to recompile AODV-UU 0.8 in NS-2.27 at
  my computer that is:
     - Linux Mandrake v9.2
     - gcc version 3.3.1=20
     - Kernel 2.4.21

     My problems are:=20
  1. When I try to recompile NS-2, it show this error:
     .....
     .....
     [emulate/netpcap.cc] can't convert ph -> ...line
  344
    =20
  2. When I run a simulation, it's OK for other=20
  simulations which not use AODV-UU. But when I run a
  simulation which using AODV-UU, it show this error :
     [user@localhost scenario]$ ns wireless1-aodv-uu.tcl
     num nodes 3.
     Wrong node routing agent !

  What's wrong?=20
  Thanks.

  Best Regards,
  Abdusy Syarif




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  <DIV>Hi all,<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; I'm trying to recompile AODV-UU 0.8 in =
NS-2.27=20
  at<BR>my computer that is:<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; - Linux Mandrake=20
  v9.2<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; - gcc version 3.3.1 <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; - Kernel=20
  2.4.21<BR><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; My problems are: <BR>1. When I try to =
recompile=20
  NS-2, it show this error:<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; .....<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  .....<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; [emulate/netpcap.cc] can't convert ph -&gt;=20
  ...line<BR>344<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>2. When I run a simulation, it's OK =
for=20
  other <BR>simulations which&nbsp;not use AODV-UU. But when I run=20
  a<BR>simulation which using AODV-UU, it show this error =
:<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  [user@localhost scenario]$ ns wireless1-aodv-uu.tcl<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; =
num nodes=20
  3.<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; Wrong node routing agent !<BR><BR>What's wrong?=20
  <BR>Thanks.<BR><BR>Best Regards,<BR>Abdusy Syarif<BR></DIV><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  size=3D2></FONT>
  <P></P></BLOCKQUOTE>
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From manet-bounces@ietf.org  Tue Dec 21 03:08:33 2004
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Subject: RE: [manet] The mecahanism of sending beacon in MANET
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 08:51:09 +0100
Message-ID: <9F1223587A755D47805AECAB7ECAF5D901A39A3E@swing.cefriel.it>
Thread-Topic: [manet] The mecahanism of sending beacon in MANET
Thread-Index: AcTmo+QoRnmqSVgSQD6JBpbtxS6ApgAjbN2Q
From: "Giorgio Mulas" <giorgio.mulas@cefriel.it>
To: "Sigit Basuki Wibowo" <sigitbw@yahoo.com>, <manet@ietf.org>
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Hi,
The problem of collision is a layer 2 issue and it is related to the =
particular MAC (Medium Access Control) you are using.

Br

Giorgio


------------------------------------------
Giorgio Mulas | Researcher

CEFRIEL =AD Politecnico di Milano
Via Fucini, 2 =B7 20133 Milano (Italy)

p. +39 02 23954 265
f. +39 02 23954 465
e. giorgio.mulas@cefriel.it


> -----Original Message-----
> From: manet-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:manet-bounces@ietf.org]=20
> On Behalf Of Sigit Basuki Wibowo
> Sent: luned=EC 20 dicembre 2004 15.41
> To: manet@ietf.org
> Subject: [manet] The mecahanism of sending beacon in MANET
>=20
>=20
> Dear all,
>=20
> In my understanding, every node should send the beacon
> packet in periodic time. This beacon is used for
> declaring that the node is in transmission range of
> another node. I want to know about the mechanism of
> sending beacon in MANET. How to avoid collision of
> beacon and/or data packet among nodes ?
>=20
> Thank you in advance.
> Best regards,
> Sigit B. WIbowo
>=20
>=20
> 	=09
> __________________________________=20
> Do you Yahoo!?=20
> Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less.=20
> http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
>=20
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From: Bracha Hod <hodb@cs.huji.ac.il>
To: <manet@ietf.org>
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Subject: [manet] AODV RERR and precursor list - RFC 3561
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Hi,

According to RFC 3561:

1) In the route discovery phase, every node that get RREQ creates or =
updated the reverse path to the RREQ originator.
2) The precursor list is updated only during the RREP generating and =
forwarding.
3) The neighboring node(s) that should receive the RERR are all those =
that belong to a precursor list of at least one of the unreachable
   destination(s) in the newly created RERR. =20

Based on those facts, consider the following case:

0<--->1 <---> 2 <---> 3 <--->4

All the route tables are empty, then node 2 initiates RREQ to find a =
route to 0.
Nodes 3 and 4 get the RREQ and create a route to 2.
The RREP that is forwarded from 0 via 1 to 2, does not have any effect =
of nodes 3 and 4.=20
Since node 4 has route to 2, it uses it to transmit data. =20
Then, if the link between 2 and 3 is broken, node 3 does not have any =
node in the precursor list of its route entry, since no RREP was =
generated or forwarded by it.
Consequently, when it gets data from node 4 and no local repair is done, =
or the local repair is failed, it does not send any RERR since the =
precursor list is empty.=20

This situation causes packet dropping, without any notification.         =
               =20
Do you have any solution to that case?

Thanks,

Bracha Hod
The Hebrew University of Jerusalem=20
Israel
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dwindows-1255">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1476" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>According to&nbsp;RFC =
3561:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>1) In the route discovery phase, every =
node that=20
get RREQ creates or updated the reverse path to the RREQ=20
originator.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>2) The precursor list is updated only =
during the=20
RREP generating and forwarding.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>3)<FONT size=3D3> <FONT size=3D2>The =
neighboring=20
node(s) that should receive the RERR are all those that belong to a =
precursor=20
list of at least one of the unreachable<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; destination(s) =
in the=20
newly created RERR.</FONT>&nbsp; </FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Based on those facts, c</FONT><FONT=20
face=3DArial><FONT size=3D2>onsider the following =
case:</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D2></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial><FONT =
size=3D2>0&lt;---&gt;1&nbsp;&lt;---&gt;&nbsp;2=20
&lt;---&gt;&nbsp;3 &lt;---&gt;4</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>All the route tables are empty, =
then&nbsp;node&nbsp;2=20
initiates RREQ to&nbsp;find a route to 0.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Nodes&nbsp;3 and 4 get the RREQ and create a =
route&nbsp;to=20
2.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>The RREP that is forwarded from 0&nbsp;via 1 to 2, =
does not=20
have any effect of nodes&nbsp;3 and 4. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Since node 4 has route to 2, it uses it to transmit=20
data.&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Then, if the link between 2 and 3 is =
broken,&nbsp;node 3 does=20
not have any node in the precursor list of&nbsp;its route entry, since =
no RREP=20
was generated or forwarded by it.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Consequently, when it gets data from node 4 and no =
local=20
repair is done, or the local repair is failed, it does not send any RERR =
since=20
the precursor list is empty.&nbsp;</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>This situation causes packet dropping, without any=20
notification.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Do you have any solution to that case?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Thanks,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Bracha Hod</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>The Hebrew University of Jerusalem </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Israel</FONT></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From manet-bounces@ietf.org  Tue Dec 21 06:06:06 2004
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Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 12:01:37 +0100
From: Bart Braem <bart.braem@ua.ac.be>
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To: manet@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [manet] AODV RERR and precursor list - RFC 3561
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Hello,

I think you are right that there is a problem their. In my opinion there 
is a reference to a broader usage of precursors, so not just for nodes 
involved in RREPs:
"For each valid route maintained by a node as a routing table entry, the 
node also maintains a list of precursors that may be forwarding packets 
on this route."
So according to this sentence nodes forwarding data packets also 
qualifies them as precursors...

Greetings,
Bart Braem
University of Antwerp
Belgium

Bracha Hod wrote:

> Hi,
>  
> According to RFC 3561:
>  
> 1) In the route discovery phase, every node that get RREQ creates or 
> updated the reverse path to the RREQ originator.
> 2) The precursor list is updated only during the RREP generating and 
> forwarding.
> 3) The neighboring node(s) that should receive the RERR are all those 
> that belong to a precursor list of at least one of the unreachable
>    destination(s) in the newly created RERR. 
>  
> Based on those facts, consider the following case:
>  
> 0<--->1 <---> 2 <---> 3 <--->4
>  
> All the route tables are empty, then node 2 initiates RREQ to find a 
> route to 0.
> Nodes 3 and 4 get the RREQ and create a route to 2.
> The RREP that is forwarded from 0 via 1 to 2, does not have any effect 
> of nodes 3 and 4.
> Since node 4 has route to 2, it uses it to transmit data. 
> Then, if the link between 2 and 3 is broken, node 3 does not have any 
> node in the precursor list of its route entry, since no RREP was 
> generated or forwarded by it.
> Consequently, when it gets data from node 4 and no local repair is 
> done, or the local repair is failed, it does not send any RERR since 
> the precursor list is empty. 
>  
> This situation causes packet dropping, without any 
> notification.                        
> Do you have any solution to that case?
>  
> Thanks,
>  
> Bracha Hod
> The Hebrew University of Jerusalem
> Israel
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>manet mailing list
>manet@ietf.org
>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet
>  
>


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From manet-bounces@ietf.org  Tue Dec 21 06:31:02 2004
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From: Bracha Hod <hodb@cs.huji.ac.il>
To: <manet@ietf.org>
References: <A4E682B8A936374A9190A3A0FEE412F225D036@xmail10.ad.ua.ac.be>
	<41C80291.7030905@ua.ac.be>
Subject: Re: [manet] AODV RERR and precursor list - RFC 3561
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 13:28:53 +0200
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I think the RFC did not mean that every data packet that is forwarded would
cause update of the precursor list.
This requires high overhead, mainly when due to the mobility there are
single packets that arrived mistakely (not as in my case).

Thanks for your reply.

Best Regards,
Bracha Hod.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bart Braem" <bart.braem@ua.ac.be>
To: <manet@ietf.org>
Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2004 13:01 PM
Subject: Re: [manet] AODV RERR and precursor list - RFC 3561


> Hello,
>
> I think you are right that there is a problem their. In my opinion there
> is a reference to a broader usage of precursors, so not just for nodes
> involved in RREPs:
> "For each valid route maintained by a node as a routing table entry, the
> node also maintains a list of precursors that may be forwarding packets
> on this route."
> So according to this sentence nodes forwarding data packets also
> qualifies them as precursors...
>
> Greetings,
> Bart Braem
> University of Antwerp
> Belgium
>
> Bracha Hod wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > According to RFC 3561:
> >
> > 1) In the route discovery phase, every node that get RREQ creates or
> > updated the reverse path to the RREQ originator.
> > 2) The precursor list is updated only during the RREP generating and
> > forwarding.
> > 3) The neighboring node(s) that should receive the RERR are all those
> > that belong to a precursor list of at least one of the unreachable
> >    destination(s) in the newly created RERR.
> >
> > Based on those facts, consider the following case:
> >
> > 0<--->1 <---> 2 <---> 3 <--->4
> >
> > All the route tables are empty, then node 2 initiates RREQ to find a
> > route to 0.
> > Nodes 3 and 4 get the RREQ and create a route to 2.
> > The RREP that is forwarded from 0 via 1 to 2, does not have any effect
> > of nodes 3 and 4.
> > Since node 4 has route to 2, it uses it to transmit data.
> > Then, if the link between 2 and 3 is broken, node 3 does not have any
> > node in the precursor list of its route entry, since no RREP was
> > generated or forwarded by it.
> > Consequently, when it gets data from node 4 and no local repair is
> > done, or the local repair is failed, it does not send any RERR since
> > the precursor list is empty.
> >
> > This situation causes packet dropping, without any
> > notification.
> > Do you have any solution to that case?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Bracha Hod
> > The Hebrew University of Jerusalem
> > Israel
> >
> >------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >manet mailing list
> >manet@ietf.org
> >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet
> >
> >
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.2 - Release Date: 20/12/2004
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> manet mailing list
> manet@ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet
>


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Subject: [manet] doubt in OLSR duplicate set (sec 4.1)
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Hi,
=20
According to section 4.1 in OLSR RFC 3626, the message should not be=20
retransmitted if D_addr, D_seq_num and D_iface_list matches.
=20
Considering an example of node A -----> node B. A sending TC to node B=20
at time 1sec. Both node A and B have only 1 interface.=20
=20
At time 1 sec, B recvs TC from node A, and suppose it is not selected=20
as MPR by A at that time. So it will not forward the TC. It stores=20
Duplicate Entry with D_iface_list as its intf_addr and D_rexmit as False.
=20
Now this entry will be there till 31 sec (assuming 30 sec expiry for=20
dup entry).
=20
Somewhere between 1 and 31 sec, if node B was selected as MPR by node=20
A, but node A's MPR selector set remains same, TC seq num will remain=20
same.
TCs recvd by node B from A, will not be forwarded as the Duplicate=20
Entry with D_addr, D_seq_num exists with D_iface_list as its intf_addr.=20
This will not allow node B to forward any TC from node A till this dup=20
entry expires, though it should forward those TCs.
=20
 Is this correct behavior? Please help if i am missing something.
=20
Thanks.


	=09
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
 The all-new My Yahoo! =96 What will yours do?
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<DIV>Hi,<BR> <BR>According to section 4.1 in OLSR RFC 3626, the message s=
hould not be <BR>retransmitted if D_addr, D_seq_num and D_iface_list matc=
hes.<BR> <BR>Considering an example of node A -----&gt; node B. A sending=
 TC to node B <BR>at time 1sec. Both node A and B have only 1 interface. =
<BR> <BR>At time 1 sec, B  recvs TC from node A, and suppose it is not se=
lected <BR>as MPR by A at that time. So it will not forward the TC. It st=
ores <BR>Duplicate Entry with D_iface_list as its intf_addr and D_rexmit =
as False.<BR> <BR>Now this entry will be there till 31 sec (assuming 30 s=
ec expiry for <BR>dup entry).<BR> <BR>Somewhere between 1 and 31 sec, if =
node B was selected as MPR by node <BR>A, but node A's MPR selector set r=
emains same, TC seq num will remain <BR>same.<BR>TCs recvd by node B from=
 A, will not be forwarded as the Duplicate <BR>Entry with D_addr, D_seq_n=
um exists with D_iface_list as its intf_addr. <BR>This will not allow nod=
e B to forward any TC from node A till this dup
 <BR>entry expires, though it should forward those TCs.<BR> <BR> Is this =
correct behavior? Please help if i am missing something.<BR> <BR>Thanks.<=
BR></DIV><p>
		<hr size=3D1>Do you Yahoo!?<br>=20
The <a href=3D"http://my.yahoo.com">all-new My Yahoo!</a> =96 What will y=
ours do?
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From manet-bounces@ietf.org  Tue Dec 21 16:35:47 2004
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From: "Francisco J. Ros" <fjrm@dif.um.es>
To: manet@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [manet] doubt in OLSR duplicate set (sec 4.1)
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 21:52:11 +0100
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Hi,

I think you are confusing Message Sequence Number (D_seq_num) with ANSN=20
(Advertised Neighbor Sequence Number). So the last TC messages will be=20
forwarded because Message Sequence Number is updated every time a new messa=
ge=20
is sent.

Regards,
=46rancisco J. Ros

El Martes, 21 de Diciembre de 2004 19:39, manet user escribi=F3:
> Hi,
>
> According to section 4.1 in OLSR RFC 3626, the message should not be
> retransmitted if D_addr, D_seq_num and D_iface_list matches.
>
> Considering an example of node A -----> node B. A sending TC to node B
> at time 1sec. Both node A and B have only 1 interface.
>
> At time 1 sec, B recvs TC from node A, and suppose it is not selected
> as MPR by A at that time. So it will not forward the TC. It stores
> Duplicate Entry with D_iface_list as its intf_addr and D_rexmit as False.
>
> Now this entry will be there till 31 sec (assuming 30 sec expiry for
> dup entry).
>
> Somewhere between 1 and 31 sec, if node B was selected as MPR by node
> A, but node A's MPR selector set remains same, TC seq num will remain
> same.
> TCs recvd by node B from A, will not be forwarded as the Duplicate
> Entry with D_addr, D_seq_num exists with D_iface_list as its intf_addr.
> This will not allow node B to forward any TC from node A till this dup
> entry expires, though it should forward those TCs.
>
>  Is this correct behavior? Please help if i am missing something.
>
> Thanks.
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
>  The all-new My Yahoo! =96 What will yours do?

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From manet-bounces@ietf.org  Tue Dec 21 16:39:40 2004
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Subject: Re: [manet] doubt in OLSR duplicate set (sec 4.1)
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Hi :==))

> Hi,
>
> According to section 4.1 in OLSR RFC 3626, the message should not be
> retransmitted if D_addr, D_seq_num and D_iface_list matches.

The correct section is 3.4.1 ;==)

>
> Considering an example of node A -----> node B. A sending TC to node B
> at time 1sec. Both node A and B have only 1 interface.
>
> At time 1 sec, B recvs TC from node A, and suppose it is not selected
> as MPR by A at that time. So it will not forward the TC. It stores
> Duplicate Entry with D_iface_list as its intf_addr and D_rexmit as False.
>
> Now this entry will be there till 31 sec (assuming 30 sec expiry for
> dup entry).
>
> Somewhere between 1 and 31 sec, if node B was selected as MPR by node
> A, but node A's MPR selector set remains same, TC seq num will remain
> same.

No, Tc seq num is increased by 1 for each Tc generated by Node A. However,
in your case ANSN will remain the same.

> TCs recvd by node B from A, will not be forwarded as the Duplicate
> Entry with D_addr, D_seq_num exists with D_iface_list as its intf_addr.
> This will not allow node B to forward any TC from node A till this dup
> entry expires, though it should forward those TCs.

1- Before selecting node B as MPR, for each TC message sent by A (suppose
that the node A MPR selector is not empty) the node B updates the entry
for A (D_time = current time + DUP_HOLD_TIME) but D_retransmitted remains
false.

2-The next TC message sent by A after selecting node B as MPR, will have
TC-seq_num > D_seq_num. As B is an MPR of A : (i) B will forward the TC
message; (ii) B Will update the entry for A with D_retransmitted = true.

>  Is this correct behavior? Please help if i am missing something.

> Thanks.

Hakim ;=====)


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        PLEASE ACCEPT OUR APOLOGIES IF YOU RECEIVE MULTIPLE COPIES

               Extended Submission Deadline for WiMob'2005

            International Conference on Wireless and Mobile Computing,
                      Networking and Communications

        Conference dates:   August 22-24, 2005
                Location:   Hotel Delta Centre-Ville 
                            Montreal, Canada
                                                                              
                 Website:   http://congresbcu.com/wimob2005/

   Please note that the deadline for submitting a full paper has
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From: manet user <manet_user@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [manet] doubt in OLSR duplicate set 
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Thanks Francisco and Hakim for clarifying the doubt. I got confused betwe=
en D_seq_num and ANSN. So basically duplicate set entries are only added/=
updated when a packet/message is considered for forwarding (rexmitted wil=
l be true or false depending if fwding condition was met or not).
=20
I observe OLSR to be way too slow for large networks (for approx 400-500 =
nodes placed in a grid in a simulation environment). Application traffic =
is not too exhaustive, but just the control overhead consumes all the ban=
dwidth. Even without mobility, TC flooding, processing and resulting rout=
e table recalculations are too frequent and expensive. Isn't this an OLSR=
 scalability issue? Any such experience/comments will help me better unde=
rstand this behavior.
=20
Thanks.
=20
=20

"Francisco J. Ros" <fjrm@dif.um.es> wrote:
Hi,

I think you are confusing Message Sequence Number (D_seq_num) with ANSN=20
(Advertised Neighbor Sequence Number). So the last TC messages will be=20
forwarded because Message Sequence Number is updated every time a new mes=
sage=20
is sent.

Regards,
Francisco J. Ros

El Martes, 21 de Diciembre de 2004 19:39, manet user escribi=F3:
> Hi,
>
> According to section 4.1 in OLSR RFC 3626, the message should not be
> retransmitted if D_addr, D_seq_num and D_iface_list matches.
>
> Considering an example of node A -----> node B. A sending TC to node B
> at time 1sec. Both node A and B have only 1 interface.
>
> At time 1 sec, B recvs TC from node A, and suppose it is not selected
> as MPR by A at that time. So it will not forward the TC. It stores
> Duplicate Entry with D_iface_list as its intf_addr and D_rexmit as Fals=
e.
>
> Now this entry will be there till 31 sec (assuming 30 sec expiry for
> dup entry).
>
> Somewhere between 1 and 31 sec, if node B was selected as MPR by node
> A, but node A's MPR selector set remains same, TC seq num will remain
> same.
> TCs recvd by node B from A, will not be forwarded as the Duplicate
> Entry with D_addr, D_seq_num exists with D_iface_list as its intf_addr.
> This will not allow node B to forward any TC from node A till this dup
> entry expires, though it should forward those TCs.
>
> Is this correct behavior? Please help if i am missing something.
>
> Thanks.
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> The all-new My Yahoo! =96 What will yours do?

	=09
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
 Meet the all-new My Yahoo! =96 Try it today!=20
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<DIV>Thanks Francisco and Hakim for clarifying the doubt.&nbsp;I&nbsp;got=
 confused between D_seq_num and ANSN. So basically duplicate set entries =
are only added/updated when a packet/message is considered for forwarding=
 (rexmitted will be true or false depending if fwding condition was met o=
r not).</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>I observe OLSR to be way too slow for large networks (for approx 400=
-500 nodes placed in a grid in a simulation environment). Application tra=
ffic is not too exhaustive, but just the control overhead consumes all th=
e bandwidth. Even without mobility, TC flooding, processing and resulting=
 route table recalculations are too frequent and&nbsp;expensive. Isn't th=
is an OLSR scalability issue? Any such experience/comments will help me b=
etter understand this behavior.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Thanks.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><BR><B><I>"Francisco J. Ros" &lt;fjrm@dif.um.es&gt;</I></B> wrote:</=
DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dreplbq style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">Hi,<BR><BR>I think you are confusing Mess=
age Sequence Number (D_seq_num) with ANSN <BR>(Advertised Neighbor Sequen=
ce Number). So the last TC messages will be <BR>forwarded because Message=
 Sequence Number is updated every time a new message <BR>is sent.<BR><BR>=
Regards,<BR>Francisco J. Ros<BR><BR>El Martes, 21 de Diciembre de 2004 19=
:39, manet user escribi=F3:<BR>&gt; Hi,<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; According to sect=
ion 4.1 in OLSR RFC 3626, the message should not be<BR>&gt; retransmitted=
 if D_addr, D_seq_num and D_iface_list matches.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Consideri=
ng an example of node A -----&gt; node B. A sending TC to node B<BR>&gt; =
at time 1sec. Both node A and B have only 1 interface.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; At=
 timme 1 sec, B recvs TC from node A, and suppose it is not selected<BR>&=
gt; as MPR by A at that time. So it will not forward the TC. It stores<BR=
>&gt; Duplicate Entry with D_iface_list as its intf_addr
 and D_rexmit as False.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Now this entry will be there till=
 31 sec (assuming 30 sec expiry for<BR>&gt; dup entry).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; S=
omewhere between 1 and 31 sec, if node B was selected as MPR by node<BR>&=
gt; A, but node A's MPR selector set remains same, TC seq num will remain=
<BR>&gt; same.<BR>&gt; TCs recvd by node B from A, will not be forwarded =
as the Duplicate<BR>&gt; Entry with D_addr, D_seq_num exists with D_iface=
_list as its intf_addr.<BR>&gt; This will not allow node B to forward any=
 TC from node A till this dup<BR>&gt; entry expires, though it should for=
ward those TCs.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Is this correct behavior? Please help if =
i am missing something.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Thanks.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<B=
R>&gt; ---------------------------------<BR>&gt; Do you Yahoo!?<BR>&gt; T=
he all-new My Yahoo! =96 What will yours do?<BR></BLOCKQUOTE><<p>
		<hr size=3D1>Do you Yahoo!?<br>=20
Meet the <a href=3D"http://my.yahoo.com">all-new My Yahoo!</a> =96 Try it=
 today!=20
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Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 03:22:07 +0100
From: Philippe Jacquet <philippe.jacquet@inria.fr>
To: manet user <manet_user@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [manet] doubt in OLSR duplicate set 
References: <20041221234830.68149.qmail@web61110.mail.yahoo.com>
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Scalability can be an issue for mobile ad hoc routing but it has not been
included in the OLSR RFC. Originally OLSR design allows the Fisheye techn=
ique
developped by Mario Gerla of UCLA. Basically it consists to play with TC'=
s TTL.
The same node change the TTL for any new TC, large TTL being less frequen=
t than
short TTL. Doing so the local control traffic is much less affected by th=
e TC's
coming from remote nodes. In theory by an appropriate scaling of frequenc=
y
versus TTL one can handle an unbounded number of nodes while keeping the =
local
control traffic bounded.=20

Of course less frequent TC with large TTL should be send with an appropri=
ately
larger VTime so that link information does not disappear in remote note
database before the next TC reaches it.=20

We have a paper about this option in an incoming JCN special issue (decem=
ber
2004).

Philippe   =20

Quoting manet user <manet_user@yahoo.com>:

> Thanks Francisco and Hakim for clarifying the doubt. I got confused bet=
ween
> D_seq_num and ANSN. So basically duplicate set entries are only added/u=
pdated
> when a packet/message is considered for forwarding (rexmitted will be t=
rue or
> false depending if fwding condition was met or not).
> =20
> I observe OLSR to be way too slow for large networks (for approx 400-50=
0
> nodes placed in a grid in a simulation environment). Application traffi=
c is
> not too exhaustive, but just the control overhead consumes all the band=
width.
> Even without mobility, TC flooding, processing and resulting route tabl=
e
> recalculations are too frequent and expensive. Isn't this an OLSR scala=
bility
> issue? Any such experience/comments will help me better understand this
> behavior.
> =20
> Thanks.
> =20
> =20
>=20
> "Francisco J. Ros" <fjrm@dif.um.es> wrote:
> Hi,
>=20
> I think you are confusing Message Sequence Number (D_seq_num) with ANSN=
=20
> (Advertised Neighbor Sequence Number). So the last TC messages will be=20
> forwarded because Message Sequence Number is updated every time a new m=
essage
>=20
> is sent.
>=20
> Regards,
> Francisco J. Ros
>=20
> El Martes, 21 de Diciembre de 2004 19:39, manet user escribi=F3:
> > Hi,
> >
> > According to section 4.1 in OLSR RFC 3626, the message should not be
> > retransmitted if D_addr, D_seq_num and D_iface_list matches.
> >
> > Considering an example of node A -----> node B. A sending TC to node =
B
> > at time 1sec. Both node A and B have only 1 interface.
> >
> > At time 1 sec, B recvs TC from node A, and suppose it is not selected
> > as MPR by A at that time. So it will not forward the TC. It stores
> > Duplicate Entry with D_iface_list as its intf_addr and D_rexmit as Fa=
lse.
> >
> > Now this entry will be there till 31 sec (assuming 30 sec expiry for
> > dup entry).
> >
> > Somewhere between 1 and 31 sec, if node B was selected as MPR by node
> > A, but node A's MPR selector set remains same, TC seq num will remain
> > same.
> > TCs recvd by node B from A, will not be forwarded as the Duplicate
> > Entry with D_addr, D_seq_num exists with D_iface_list as its intf_add=
r.
> > This will not allow node B to forward any TC from node A till this du=
p
> > entry expires, though it should forward those TCs.
> >
> > Is this correct behavior? Please help if i am missing something.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > The all-new My Yahoo! =96 What will yours do?
>=20
> 	=09
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
>  Meet the all-new My Yahoo! =96 Try it today!=20


--=20
Philippe Jacquet
Hipercom project team leader
INRIA
tel: +33 1 39 63 52 63
fax: +33 1 39 63 55 66

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From manet-bounces@ietf.org  Wed Dec 22 09:54:34 2004
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Hello,

I am looking for an (freely available) implementation of a manet routing 
algorithm that supports unicast and multicast. It is not for a simulation, 
but for use on pda's.

Anybody has any idea where to find one?

Kind regards,

pkl

_________________________________________________________________
Nieuw: Hotmail Medium, Large, Extra Large en Extra Extra Large 
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Subject: [manet] [Call for Papers] ESAS 2005
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PRELIMINARY ANNOUNCEMENT & CALL FOR PAPERS

                      **** ESAS 2005 ****
        2nd European Workshop on Security and Privacy
              in Ad hoc and Sensor Networks

           July 14-15, 2005, Budapest, Hungary

              http://www.crysys.hu/ESAS2005/

The vision of ubiquitous computing has generated a lot of interest in
wireless ad hoc and sensor networks. However, besides their potential
advantages, these new generations of networks also raise some challenging
problems with respect to security and privacy. The aim of this workshop i=
s
to bring together the network security, cryptography, and wireless
networking communities in order to discuss these problems and to propose
new solutions. The second ESAS workshop seeks submissions that present
original research on all aspects of security and privacy in wireless ad
hoc and sensor networks. Submission of papers based on work-in-progress i=
s
encouraged. Topics of interest include, but are not limited to the
following

  * Privacy and anonymity
  * Prevention of traffic analysis
  * Location privacy
  * Secure positioning and localization
  * Secure MAC protocols
  * Secure topology control
  * Secure routing
  * Secure in-network processing
  * Secure context aware computing
  * Cooperation and fairness
  * Charging and rewarding
  * Key management
  * Trust establishment
  * Embedded security
  * Cryptography for resource constrained applications
  * Distributed intrusion detection


IMPORTANT DATES

Submission deadline:		March 30, 2005
Notification of acceptance:	May 16, 2005
Workshop version deadline:	May 31, 2005
Workshop:			July 14-15, 2005
Proceedings version deadline:	August 15, 2005


PROGRAM CHAIRS

* Refik Molva, Eurecom, France
* Gene Tsudik, UC Irvine, USA


PROGRAM COMMITTEE

* Imad Aad, EPFL, Switzerland
* N. Asokan, Nokia, Finland
* Sonja Buchegger, Berkeley, USA
* Laurent Bussard, Microsoft, Germany
* Levente Butty=E1n, BUTE, CrySyS Lab, Hungary
* Srdjan Capkun, UCLA, USA
* Claude Castelluccia, INRIA, France
* Hannes Hartenstein, University of Karlsruhe, Germany
* Yih-Chun Hu, Berkeley, USA
* Markus Jakobsson, Indiana University, Bloomington, USA
* Yongdae Kim, University of Minnesota, Minneapolis, USA
* Stefan Lucks, University of Mannheim, Germany
* Breno de Medeiros, Florida State University, USA
* Ludovic M=E9, Supelec, France
* Gabriel Montenegro, SunLabs, USA
* Cristina Nita-Rotaru, Purdue University, USA
* Guevara Noubir, Northeastern University, USA
* Kaisa Nyberg, Nokia, Finland
* Christof Paar, University of Bochum, Germany
* Panagiotis Papadimitratos, Cornell University, USA
* G=FCnter Sch=E4fer, Technical University of Berlin, Germany
* Andre Weimerskirch, University of Bochum, Germany
* Dirk Westhoff, NEC Europe Network Lab., Germany
* Susanne Wetzel, Stevens Institute of Technology, USA


WORKSHOP ORGANIZERS

* Levente Butty=E1n, Budapest University of Technology and Economics,
Hungary (buttyan at crysys.hu)
* Claude Castelluccia, INRIA, France (Claude dot Castelluccia at
inrialpes.fr)
* Dirk Westhoff, NEC Europe Network Lab., Heidelberg, Germany (Dirk dot
Westhoff at netlab.nec.de)
* Susanne Wetzel, Stevens Institute of Technology, USA (swetzel at
cs.stevens.edu)


INSTRUCTIONS FOR AUTHORS

Authors are invited to submit original papers. All submissions will be
refereed. Submissions must not substantially duplicate work that any of
the authors have published elsewhere or have submitted in parallel. The
submissions must not exceed 10 pages (excluding the title page,
bibliography and appendices) nor 12 pages overall. The final version
should not exceed 15 pages. The preferred submission format is PDF or
PostScript. We recommend that you generate the PDF or PS file using LaTeX
and the LNCS style available at www.springer.de/comp/lncs. Further
information on how to submit papers will be available here
http://www.crysys.hu/ESAS2005/submission.html.


WORKSHOP PROCEEDINGS

The Proceedings will be published by Springer after the Workshop in the
Lecture Notes in Computer Science (LNCS) Series
(www.springer.de/comp/lncs/). Notice that in order to be included in the
proceedings, the authors of an accepted paper must guarantee to present
their contribution at the ESAS workshop.


LINKS

* Call for Papers:	http://www.crysys.hu/ESAS2005/cfp.html
* Download CFP (pdf):	http://www.crysys.hu/ESAS2005/esas2005_cfp_short.pd=
f
* Submission:		http://www.crysys.hu/ESAS2005/submission.html
* Technical program:	http://www.crysys.hu/ESAS2005/program.html
* Registration:		http://www.crysys.hu/ESAS2005/registration.html
* Location information:	http://www.crysys.hu/ESAS2005/location.html
* ESAS 2004:		http://www.netlab.nec.de/esas/esas2004.html



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From manet-bounces@ietf.org  Wed Dec 22 15:32:33 2004
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Message-ID: <41C9D7B6.7B459231@bbn.com>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 15:23:18 -0500
From: Cesar Santivanez <csantiva@bbn.com>
Organization: BBN Technologies (a Verizon's unit)
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To: Philippe Jacquet <philippe.jacquet@inria.fr>
Subject: Re: [manet] OLSR and SCALABILITY
References: <20041221234830.68149.qmail@web61110.mail.yahoo.com>
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Hi Philippe,

You just described HSLS routing, developed by BBN under the DAWN project =
(part of
DARPA's Glomo program). Indeed, the HSLS technique, since it only require=
s a modification
on the value of the TTL can be applied simultaneously with the MPR techni=
que. They
are orthogonal and complimentary: HSLS helps you when the network diamete=
r is large,=20
and MPRs help you when the network density is high (e.g. your radios cann=
ot do power=20
control). We have combined both techniques successfully in several projec=
ts in the past.


> In theory by an appropriate scaling of frequency
> versus TTL one can handle an unbounded number of nodes while keeping th=
e local
> control traffic bounded.
Well, we wish this could be true. Unfortunately, in order to keep the con=
trol traffic bounded
as the number of nodes increases, you would have to decrease the rate of =
Link State Updates to=20
a point when the quality of the routes would be no longer acceptable. Wha=
t we discovered is that
we need to balance the overhead due to control traffic with the penalty f=
or lower-quality
routes. For uniform traffic conditions, the best scheduled was found. Thi=
s schedule (HSLS)
maintains a linear relationship between distance and link state informati=
on latency.

Thus, when using the optimal schedule, as the number of nodes increases b=
oth the control overhead and the penalty due to bad routes increases - at=
 the same rate -- to the point that they
render the network ineffective. However, this breaking point is on the sa=
me order of magnitude
as the number of nodes that the network can handle (due to traffic starva=
tion, i.e. the
traffic demands grow faster than available bandwidth with respect to the =
number of nodes)
anyway. Thus, with HSLS, routing is no longer the limiting factor on netw=
ork effectiveness.

For further information, you can take a look at:
(1) Cesar Santivanez and Ram Ramanathan, "Hazy Sighted Link State (HSLS) =
Routing: A Scalable
Link State Algorithm," BBN Technical Memorandum No. 1301, August 31, 2001=
.=20
http://www.ir.bbn.com/documents/techmemos/TM1301.ps
http://www.ir.bbn.com/documents/techmemos/TM1301.pdf

(2) C. Santivanez, B. McDonald, I. Stavrakakis, and R. Ramanathan, "On th=
e Scalability of Ad Hoc Routing Protocols," Proceedings of IEEE INFOCOM'0=
2, New York, June, 2002.
http://www.ir.bbn.com/documents/articles/infocom07.ps
http://www.ir.bbn.com/documents/articles/infocom07.pdf


Regards

Cesar


Philippe Jacquet wrote:
>=20
> Scalability can be an issue for mobile ad hoc routing but it has not be=
en
> included in the OLSR RFC. Originally OLSR design allows the Fisheye tec=
hnique
> developped by Mario Gerla of UCLA. Basically it consists to play with T=
C's TTL.
> The same node change the TTL for any new TC, large TTL being less frequ=
ent than
> short TTL. Doing so the local control traffic is much less affected by =
the TC's
> coming from remote nodes. In theory by an appropriate scaling of freque=
ncy
> versus TTL one can handle an unbounded number of nodes while keeping th=
e local
> control traffic bounded.
>=20
> Of course less frequent TC with large TTL should be send with an approp=
riately
> larger VTime so that link information does not disappear in remote note
> database before the next TC reaches it.
>=20
> We have a paper about this option in an incoming JCN special issue (dec=
ember
> 2004).
>=20
> Philippe
>=20
> Quoting manet user <manet_user@yahoo.com>:
>=20
> > Thanks Francisco and Hakim for clarifying the doubt. I got confused b=
etween
> > D_seq_num and ANSN. So basically duplicate set entries are only added=
/updated
> > when a packet/message is considered for forwarding (rexmitted will be=
 true or
> > false depending if fwding condition was met or not).
> >
> > I observe OLSR to be way too slow for large networks (for approx 400-=
500
> > nodes placed in a grid in a simulation environment). Application traf=
fic is
> > not too exhaustive, but just the control overhead consumes all the ba=
ndwidth.
> > Even without mobility, TC flooding, processing and resulting route ta=
ble
> > recalculations are too frequent and expensive. Isn't this an OLSR sca=
lability
> > issue? Any such experience/comments will help me better understand th=
is
> > behavior.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> >
> >
> > "Francisco J. Ros" <fjrm@dif.um.es> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I think you are confusing Message Sequence Number (D_seq_num) with AN=
SN
> > (Advertised Neighbor Sequence Number). So the last TC messages will b=
e
> > forwarded because Message Sequence Number is updated every time a new=
 message
> >
> > is sent.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Francisco J. Ros
> >
> > El Martes, 21 de Diciembre de 2004 19:39, manet user escribi=F3:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > According to section 4.1 in OLSR RFC 3626, the message should not b=
e
> > > retransmitted if D_addr, D_seq_num and D_iface_list matches.
> > >
> > > Considering an example of node A -----> node B. A sending TC to nod=
e B
> > > at time 1sec. Both node A and B have only 1 interface.
> > >
> > > At time 1 sec, B recvs TC from node A, and suppose it is not select=
ed
> > > as MPR by A at that time. So it will not forward the TC. It stores
> > > Duplicate Entry with D_iface_list as its intf_addr and D_rexmit as =
False.
> > >
> > > Now this entry will be there till 31 sec (assuming 30 sec expiry fo=
r
> > > dup entry).
> > >
> > > Somewhere between 1 and 31 sec, if node B was selected as MPR by no=
de
> > > A, but node A's MPR selector set remains same, TC seq num will rema=
in
> > > same.
> > > TCs recvd by node B from A, will not be forwarded as the Duplicate
> > > Entry with D_addr, D_seq_num exists with D_iface_list as its intf_a=
ddr.
> > > This will not allow node B to forward any TC from node A till this =
dup
> > > entry expires, though it should forward those TCs.
> > >
> > > Is this correct behavior? Please help if i am missing something.
> > >
> > > Thanks.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------
> > > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > The all-new My Yahoo! - What will yours do?
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> >  Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today!
>=20
> --
> Philippe Jacquet
> Hipercom project team leader
> INRIA
> tel: +33 1 39 63 52 63
> fax: +33 1 39 63 55 66
>=20
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> manet mailing list
> manet@ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet

--=20
Cesar Santivanez, Ph.D. <csantiva@bbn.com>
Network Scientist
Internetwork Research
BBN Technologies

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Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 01:50:38 -0800 (PST)
From: pakorn kulsirimongkol <hongzing_add@yahoo.com>
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Dear, sir
          i am researching in ah hoc network and have been confused something.
in link state routing protocol use beaconning for declaring its position . any node which receive beacon can know its neighbor.
my question 
first question
what layer is beacon used? (network/data link)
 
second question
when any node want to send a beacon, that node must sense for free channel before sending. thus many nodes want to send the beacon at the same time. do each node have to wait for free channel?
 
third question
if this routing send beacon more frequently, it will use more bandwidth  ??
 
sincerely
 
pakorn k.



		
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
 Send holiday email and support a worthy cause. Do good.
--0-1642056087-1103795438=:32149
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<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>Dear, sir</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;i am researching in ah hoc network and have been confused&nbsp;something.</DIV>
<DIV>in link state routing protocol use beaconning for&nbsp;declaring&nbsp;its&nbsp;position . any node which receive beacon can know its neighbor.</DIV>
<DIV>my&nbsp;question </DIV>
<DIV>first question</DIV>
<DIV>what layer is beacon used?&nbsp;(network/data link)</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>second question</DIV>
<DIV>when any node&nbsp;want to send a beacon, that node must sense for free channel before sending. thus many nodes want to send the beacon at the same time. do each node have to wait for free channel?</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>third question</DIV>
<DIV>if this routing send beacon more frequently, it will use more bandwidth&nbsp; ??</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>sincerely</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>pakorn k.</DIV></DIV></DIV><p>
		<hr size=1>Do you Yahoo!?<br> 
Send holiday email and support a worthy cause. <a href="http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=29911/*http://celebrity.mail.yahoo.com/">Do good.</a>
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Dear pakorn k.
=20
first answer:
network layer. Beaconing is part of the routing mechanism.
=20
second answer:
sensing channel is a typical MAC operation, even if it depends on the =
particular MAC you are using. In CSMA-like MAC, transmission of frames =
is successful only if they don't collide on the channel: then you MUST =
send layer-2 frames only on free channels.
=20
third answer:
of course. Determining the best trade-off between frequency of beaconing =
(this impacts on a better control over network topology -> critical =
especially in highly dynamic networks) and consumed bandwidth is an =
important issue that is related to the scenario you are considering.
=20
br.
=20
Giorgio
=20



------------------------------------------
Giorgio Mulas | Researcher

CEFRIEL =AD Politecnico di Milano
Via Fucini, 2 =B7 20133 Milano (Italy)

p. +39 02 23954 265
f. +39 02 23954 465
e. giorgio.mulas@cefriel.it


-----Original Message-----
From: manet-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:manet-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf =
Of pakorn kulsirimongkol
Sent: gioved=EC 23 dicembre 2004 10.51
To: manet@ietf.org
Subject: [manet] beaconning in manet


Dear, sir
          i am researching in ah hoc network and have been confused =
something.
in link state routing protocol use beaconning for declaring its position =
. any node which receive beacon can know its neighbor.
my question=20
first question
what layer is beacon used? (network/data link)
=20
second question
when any node want to send a beacon, that node must sense for free =
channel before sending. thus many nodes want to send the beacon at the =
same time. do each node have to wait for free channel?
=20
third question
if this routing send beacon more frequently, it will use more bandwidth  =
??
=20
sincerely
=20
pakorn k.



  _____ =20

Do you Yahoo!?
Send holiday email and support a worthy cause. Do  =
<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=3D29911/*http://celebrity.mail.yahoo.com/> =
good.


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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<TITLE>Message</TITLE>

<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.2523" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D864312110-23122004><FONT face=3D"Courier New" =
size=3D2>Dear <FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>pakorn k.</FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D864312110-23122004><FONT face=3D"Courier New"=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D864312110-23122004><FONT face=3D"Courier New" =
size=3D2>first=20
answer:</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D864312110-23122004><FONT face=3D"Courier New" =
size=3D2>network=20
layer. Beaconing is part of the routing mechanism.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D864312110-23122004><FONT face=3D"Courier New"=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D864312110-23122004><FONT face=3D"Courier New" =
size=3D2>second=20
answer:</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D864312110-23122004><FONT face=3D"Courier New" =
size=3D2>sensing=20
channel is a typical MAC&nbsp;operation, even if it depends on the =
particular=20
MAC you are using. In CSMA-like MAC, transmission of frames is =
successful only=20
if they don't collide on the channel: then you MUST send layer-2 frames =
only on=20
free channels.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D864312110-23122004><FONT face=3D"Courier New"=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D864312110-23122004><FONT face=3D"Courier New" =
size=3D2>third=20
answer:</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D864312110-23122004>of course.=20
Determining the best trade-off between frequency of beaconing (this =
impacts on a=20
better control over network topology -&gt; critical especially in highly =
dynamic=20
networks)&nbsp;and consumed bandwidth is an important issue that is =
related to=20
the scenario you are considering.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D864312110-23122004></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D864312110-23122004>br.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D864312110-23122004></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D864312110-23122004>Giorgio</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV><!-- =
Converted from text/plain format --><FONT=20
face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2></FONT><BR>
<P><FONT size=3D2>------------------------------------------<BR>Giorgio =
Mulas |=20
Researcher<BR><BR>CEFRIEL &shy; Politecnico di Milano<BR>Via Fucini, 2 =
=B7 20133=20
Milano (Italy)<BR><BR>p. +39 02 23954 265<BR>f. +39 02 23954 465<BR>e.=20
giorgio.mulas@cefriel.it<BR></FONT></P>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px =
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr =
align=3Dleft><FONT=20
  face=3DTahoma size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>=20
  manet-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:manet-bounces@ietf.org] <B>On Behalf Of =

  </B>pakorn kulsirimongkol<BR><B>Sent:</B> gioved=EC 23 dicembre 2004=20
  10.51<BR><B>To:</B> manet@ietf.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> [manet] =
beaconning in=20
  manet<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <DIV>
  <DIV>Dear, sir</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;i am=20
  researching in ah hoc network and have been =
confused&nbsp;something.</DIV>
  <DIV>in link state routing protocol use beaconning=20
  for&nbsp;declaring&nbsp;its&nbsp;position . any node which receive =
beacon can=20
  know its neighbor.</DIV>
  <DIV>my&nbsp;question </DIV>
  <DIV>first question</DIV>
  <DIV>what layer is beacon used?&nbsp;(network/data link)</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>second question</DIV>
  <DIV>when any node&nbsp;want to send a beacon, that node must sense =
for free=20
  channel before sending. thus many nodes want to send the beacon at the =
same=20
  time. do each node have to wait for free channel?</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>third question</DIV>
  <DIV>if this routing send beacon more frequently, it will use more=20
  bandwidth&nbsp; ??</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>sincerely</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>pakorn k.</DIV></DIV></DIV>
  <P>
  <HR SIZE=3D1>
  Do you Yahoo!?<BR>Send holiday email and support a worthy cause. <A=20
  =
href=3D"http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=3D29911/*http://celebrity.mail.yahoo.c=
om/">Do=20
  good.</A></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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Cc: Ian Chakeres <idc@cs.ucsb.edu>, manet@ietf.org,
        Joseph Macker <macker@itd.nrl.navy.mil>
Subject: [manet] WG Review: Recharter of Mobile Ad-hoc Networks (manet)
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A modified charter has been submitted for the Mobile Ad-hoc Networks (manet) 
working group in the Routing Area of the IETF. The IESG has not made any 
determination as yet. The following description was submitted, and is 
provided for informational purposes only. Please send your comments to 
the IESG mailing list (iesg@ietf.org) by December 30th.

+++

Mobile Ad-hoc Networks (manet)
===================================

Current Status: Active Working Group

Description of Working Group:

The purpose of the MANET working group is to standardize IP routing protocol
functionality suitable for wireless routing application within both static
and dynamic topologies with increased dynamics due to node motion or other
factors.

Approaches are intended to be relatively lightweight in nature, suitable for
multiple hardware and wireless environments, and address scenarios where
MANETs are deployed at the edges of an IP infrastructure. Hybrid mesh
infrastructures (e.g., a mixture of fixed and mobile routers) should also be
supported by MANET specifications and management features.

Using mature components from previous work on experimental reactive and
proactive protocols, the WG will develop two Standards track routing
protocol
specifications:

- Reactive MANET Protocol (RMP)
- Proactive MANET Protocol (PMP)

If significant commonality between RMRP and PMRP protocol modules is
observed, the WG may decide to go with a converged approach. Both IPv4 and
IPv6 will be supported. Routing security requirements and issues will also
be addressed.

The MANET WG will also develop a scoped forwarding protocol that can
efficiently flood data packets to all participating MANET nodes. The primary
purpose of this mechanism is a simplified best effort multicast forwarding
function. The use of this protocol is intended to be applied ONLY within
MANET routing areas and the WG effort will be limited to routing layer
design issues.

The MANET WG will pay attention to the OSPF-MANET protocol work within the
OSPF WG and IRTF work that is addressing research topics related to MANET
environments.

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Sir , I want to unsubscribe from your group .

		
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<DIV><BR><BR>
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From: "Moustafa Youssef" <moustafa@cs.umd.edu>
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Subject: [manet] CFP: IEEE WirelessCom Symposium on Mobile Computing, 2005
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(Our apologies if you receive multiple copies of this CFP)

-------------------------------------------------------------
                Call for Papers
           Symposium on Mobile Computing
  http://www.csee.umbc.edu/~younis/WC_MobCom05.htm
                  as part of 
             IEEE WirelessCom 2005
Sheraton Maui Resort, Kaanapali Beach, Maui, Hawaii, USA
http://www.ece.queensu.ca/hpages/faculty/safwat/wirelesscom/05/
                 June 13-16, 2005
  Technical Sponsorship: IEEE TCCC, TCPC, and SSCTC


Recent years have witnessed an enormous growth in the development
and applications of mobile computing environments and devices.
Many practitioners envision a future empowered with context and
location aware computation and communication infrastructure that
allow users to access data and receive service at any place and
any time. Compared to conventional platforms, the mobility of
computing nodes introduces many challenges to the design of almost
all systems components.

This symposium will foster a forum for discussing and presenting
recent research results on mobile computer systems. Original
papers are invited in the broader area of mobile computing. Papers
must report high-quality and previously unpublished work. Topics
of interest include, but are not limited to, the following:

-  Architecture and infrastructure support	
-  Middleware and operating systems services
-  Development platforms and environments
-  Adaptive resource management schemes
-  Pervasive and Context-aware Computing
-  Performance metrics and studies
-  Power aware computation and communication
-  Data consistency and synchronization protocols
-  Fault-tolerant architectural and operation models
-  Wearable computing devices and systems
-  Time constrained mobile systems
-  Robust ad-hoc networking techniques
-  Efficient localization techniques
-  Wireless sensor networks
-  Mobile peer to peer systems
-  Quality of service provisioning
-  Context-conscious computing
-  Web caching and services
-  Emerging applications and systems
-  Mobile agents
-  Mobile commerce
-  Security and privacy issues


Submission Guidelines
---------------------
Prospective authors should submit their paper electronically to
younis@csee.umbc.edu.  All papers are limited to 6 pages in MS-Word, PS 
or PDF using standard IEEE double-column format. The first page should 
include title, authors' contact information, an abstract and five 
keywords. Authors should attach the paper abstract to their message.

Important Dates
---------------
Paper Submission Deadline:      March 15, 2005
Notification of Acceptance:     April 15, 2005
Camera-Ready Papers:            May 1, 2005

Symposium Co-Chairs
-------------------
Mohamed Younis
Department of Computer Science and Electrical Engineering
University of Maryland Baltimore County,
E-mail: younis@csee.umbc.edu 

Hesham El-Rewini
Department of Computer Science and Engineering
Southern Methodist University
E-mail: rewini@engr.smu.edu


Publicity Chair
----------------
Moustafa Youssef
Department of Computer Science
University of Maryland at College Park,
E-mail: moustafa@cs.umd.edu 



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From manet-bounces@ietf.org  Fri Dec 24 01:48:30 2004
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Hi, 

I am starting to do some research on the partition in MANET. 
Is there some good or new articles can be recommended?

   TIA.

Merry xmas!

Kevin





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From manet-bounces@ietf.org  Fri Dec 24 04:56:37 2004
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hi all, 
    IMHO it the MANET charter should amplify its scope to address
multicast. 
 
best regards and merry xmas! 
     Dario

The IESG <iesg-secretary@ietf.org> said:

> A modified charter has been submitted for the Mobile Ad-hoc Networks (manet) 
> working group in the Routing Area of the IETF. The IESG has not made any 
> determination as yet. The following description was submitted, and is 
> provided for informational purposes only. Please send your comments to 
> the IESG mailing list (iesg@ietf.org) by December 30th.
> 
> +++
> 
> Mobile Ad-hoc Networks (manet)
> ===================================
> 
> Current Status: Active Working Group
> 
> Description of Working Group:
> 
> The purpose of the MANET working group is to standardize IP routing protocol
> functionality suitable for wireless routing application within both static
> and dynamic topologies with increased dynamics due to node motion or other
> factors.
> 
> Approaches are intended to be relatively lightweight in nature, suitable for
> multiple hardware and wireless environments, and address scenarios where
> MANETs are deployed at the edges of an IP infrastructure. Hybrid mesh
> infrastructures (e.g., a mixture of fixed and mobile routers) should also be
> supported by MANET specifications and management features.
> 
> Using mature components from previous work on experimental reactive and
> proactive protocols, the WG will develop two Standards track routing
> protocol
> specifications:
> 
> - Reactive MANET Protocol (RMP)
> - Proactive MANET Protocol (PMP)
> 
> If significant commonality between RMRP and PMRP protocol modules is
> observed, the WG may decide to go with a converged approach. Both IPv4 and
> IPv6 will be supported. Routing security requirements and issues will also
> be addressed.
> 
> The MANET WG will also develop a scoped forwarding protocol that can
> efficiently flood data packets to all participating MANET nodes. The primary
> purpose of this mechanism is a simplified best effort multicast forwarding
> function. The use of this protocol is intended to be applied ONLY within
> MANET routing areas and the WG effort will be limited to routing layer
> design issues.
> 
> The MANET WG will pay attention to the OSPF-MANET protocol work within the
> OSPF WG and IRTF work that is addressing research topics related to MANET
> environments.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> manet mailing list
> manet@ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet
> 

-- 



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Hi,
 I want to know if there are any publications in Wireless Sensor Networks which propose an Energy efficient QoS routing protocol where all the nodes have same capability and the network is homogeneous.
 
If anybody came across such a publication, kindly give me its reference.
 
Waiting for your reply,
Praveen.

		
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<DIV>Hi,</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;I want to know if there are any publications in Wireless Sensor Networks which propose an Energy efficient QoS routing protocol where all the nodes have same capability and the network is homogeneous.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>If anybody came across such a publication, kindly give me its reference.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Waiting for your reply,</DIV>
<DIV>Praveen.</DIV><p>
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Take a look at Delay Tolerant Networking (google it), here partitions
are "common place".


-- 
~ Gardezi

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From: Sheetalkumar Doshi <Sheetalkumar.Doshi@colorado.edu>
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Subject: [manet] Research in WSN
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Hi Praveen

I've been looking at energy efficient QoS routing in MANETs; the core problem of
 finding a route that satisfies explicit QoS bounds of delay, loss rate and
available bandwidth while trying to minimize energy cost of the route is NP
complete. "Quality of Service Routing for supporting multimedia applications 
by Zheng Wang and Jon Crowcroft" in IEEE JOURNAL ON SELECTED AREAS IN
COMMUNICATIONS, VOL 14, NO. 7, SEPTEMBER 1996 illustrates this well. They show
how 2 or more additive constraints make the problem  NP complete.


Regards

Sheetal




> Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 06:50:43 -0800 (PST)
> From: Praveen Choudary <praveeng_01@yahoo.com>
> Subject: [manet] Research in WSN
> To: manet@irtf.org
> Message-ID: <20041224145043.12678.qmail@web20926.mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Hi,
>  I want to know if there are any publications in Wireless Sensor Networks
> which propose an Energy efficient QoS routing protocol where all the nodes
> have same capability and the network is homogeneous.
>
> If anybody came across such a publication, kindly give me its reference.
>
> Waiting for your reply,
> Praveen.
>
>
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Subject: [manet] 802.11, MANETs and mesh networks?
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Hello to the MANET community and merry XMAS to you all.=20

When the holidays will be over, I would like to open a discussion on a su=
bject
that is not 100% related to MANETs but could still interest some of you.=20

I assume that 802.11 is the standard that has won the market for wireless=
 LAN
applications.=20
Now, in my vision, one of the future developments of  wireless networks i=
n the
close future is the cooperation of MANETs and wireless mesh networks.=20
Wireless mesh networks are networks that are essentially composed by mobi=
le and
fixed wireless nodes: the fixed nodes are used to cover a local area. The
benefit of mesh architecture is that if that we add fault and congestion
tolerance by using redudancy of nodes.
In other words, a dense mesh network that runs self-organizing routing pr=
otocols
and  self organizing congestion-avoidance protocols, will re-route traffi=
c to
avoid broken links and congested nodes.=20
Mesh networks will allow to extend MANETs, because two farway mobile node=
s will
be able to connect to each other by using  the mesh network nodes.
In this scenario, two close mobile nodes will connect tdirectly without p=
assing
throuhg any mesh network node.

Now the question is: is  this possible using 802.11 standard? In my opini=
on the
answer in NO because in 802.11 a device can be EITHER in Ad-hoc OR in
infrastructure mode. To my knowledge, in 802.11 two access points cannot =
connect
to each other  using wireless connection or at least this is not possible=
 in a
standard configuration.=20

Am I right? Am I missing something? for comparison, you could check the M=
EA
technology by a company named MeshNetworks, recently bought by Motorola
(www.meshnetworks.com).

Thanks for your answers and merry XMAS again=A7

Claudio=20

-------------------------------------------------
This mail sent through Institut Eurecom Webmail: http://webmail.eurecom.f=
r

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Hi,
 I am doing research Independently. I have studied publications in routing aspects of wireless sensor networks (WSN). To the best of my knowledge I have developed an idea and I want to know the comments of researchers and scientists working in this area.
 
 There are many publications in QoS aspects of Mobile Ad-hoc Networks. These algorithms cannot be directly applied to WSN. There is a good scope for research in QoS aspects of WSN. My interest is in developing "Energy efficient QoS routing protocol for wireless sensor networks".  I am assuming there is a mix of both real time and non real time packets. I am not using location based routing protocol.
 
Let us get into the details of idea. The existing algorithms try to find out energy efficient QoS path for all the packets. I mean the routing path is same for both the real time and non real time packets. I want to try a different approach. The routing path should be different for real time packets and non real time packets. For non real time packets the routing path is calculated completely ignoring QoS criteria and for real time packets the routing path is calculated using both energy and QoS parameters. You may feel this approach may increase overhead. My algorithm uses the same mechanism for calculating both paths with out much overhead. Also my algorithm uses only local information and achieves global optimization. The algorithm is flexible and the routing paths are calculated dynamically. Initially the nodes will trade off energy for hard real time packets and later when the energy reserves falls below a certian level the nodes gradually decrease trading off energy fo!
 r Real
 time packets. 
 
I have a feeling that my approach is better than the existing techniques. I request the members in this group to give their comments and tell me if this can be explored futher. If possible suggest me some improvements. Let us get into the new year with some new ideas.
 
Waiting for your comments,
Praveen.

		
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<DIV>Hi,</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;I am doing research Independently. I have studied publications in routing aspects of wireless sensor networks (WSN).&nbsp;To the best of my knowledge I&nbsp;have developed an idea and I want to know the comments of researchers and scientists working in this area.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;There are many publications in QoS aspects of Mobile Ad-hoc Networks. These algorithms cannot be directly applied to WSN. There is a good scope for research in QoS aspects of WSN.&nbsp;My interest is in developing "Energy efficient QoS routing protocol for wireless sensor networks".&nbsp; I am assuming there is a mix of both real time and non real time packets. I am not using location based routing protocol.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Let us get into the details of idea. The existing algorithms try to find out energy efficient QoS path for all the packets. I mean the routing&nbsp;path is same for both the real time and non real time packets. I want to try a different approach. The routing path should be different for real time packets and non real time packets. For non real time packets the routing path is calculated completely ignoring QoS criteria and for real time packets the routing path is calculated using both energy and QoS parameters. You may feel this approach may increase overhead. My algorithm uses the same mechanism for&nbsp;calculating both paths with out much overhead. Also my algorithm uses only local information and achieves global optimization. The algorithm is flexible and the routing paths are calculated dynamically. Initially the nodes will trade off energy for hard real time packets and later when the energy reserves falls below a certian level the nodes gradually decrease tradin!
 g off
 energy for Real time packets. </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>I have a feeling that my approach is better than the existing techniques. I request the members in this group to give their comments and tell me if this can be explored futher. If possible suggest me some improvements.&nbsp;Let us get into the new year with some new ideas.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Waiting for your comments,</DIV>
<DIV>Praveen.</DIV><p>
		<hr size=1>Do you Yahoo!?<br> 
Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced search. <a href="http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=29916/*http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250">Learn more.</a>
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From: Yang Xiao <yangxiao_acm@yahoo.com>
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Subject: [manet] International Symposium on Wireless Local and Personal Area
	Networks in WirelessCom 2005
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We apologize if you receive multiple copies of this CFP

===============
Call For Papers 
International Symposium on Wireless Local and Personal Area Networks 
(part of WirelessCom 2005) 

URL:  http://www.cs.ualberta.ca/~ehab/WirelessCom2005-WLANs-WPANs/

Sheraton Maui Resort, Kaanapali Beach, 
Maui, Hawaii, USA 
June 13-16th, 2005 
   


Scope and Topics of Interest 
 
Original papers are invited on emerging architectures and technologies
in the design of wireless local area networks (WLANs) and wireless
personal area networks (WPANs) with emphasis on the use of such
networks in diverse areas of applications such as supporting ubiquitous
mobile Internet access, and the design of ad-hoc networks, and sensor
networks. The symposium solicits high quality and previously
unpublished work in the field. Topics of interest include, but are not
limited to:  

Medium access techniques and protocols for WLANs/WPANs 
Emerging standards and testbeds for WLANs/WPANs 
WLANs/WPANs protocols for smart antennas 
Energy efficiency in protocol and systems design 
Resource assignment and sharing in WLANs/WPANs 
Self configuration in WLANs/WPANs 
Provisioning quality of service in WLANs/WPANs 
Multimedia networking architectures and protocols for WLANs/WPANs 
Integration and interoperability of WLANs/WPANs and 3G (and beyond)
networks 
Interoperability issues between wireless standards/protocols and the
Internet 
User mobility and workload modeling 
Security issues in WLANs/WPANs 
 

Paper Submission and Important Dates 
 
Please see the WirelessCom'05 submission page for guidelines. Note that
all papers are limited to six pages, and must be in standard IEEE
double-column format. All submissions will be handled electronically
and must be in PDF format. The conference has designated best papers
awards.  

Manuscript Submission:  
 March 15, 2005  
Acceptance Notification:  
 April 15, 2005  
Camera-Ready Papers Due:  
 May 1, 2005  

 


Organizing Committee 
 
Symposium Co-Chairs

Ehab S. Elmallah
Department of Computing Science,
University of Alberta, Edmonton, Alberta
Canada, T6G 2E8 
ehab@cs.ualberta.ca

Yang Xiao
Computer Science Division 
The University of Memphis, 
373 Dunn Hall, 
Memphis, TN 38152, USA 
yangxiao@ieee.org

 

Publicity Co-Chairs

Kui Wu
Department of Computer Science 
University of Victoria 
Victoria, British Columbia 
Canada V8W 3P6 
wkui@cs.uvic.ca

Vincent Wong

Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering 
The University of British Columbia 
2356 Main Mall, Vancouver, BC, 
Canada, V6T 1Z4 
vincentw@ece.ubc.ca

 
Technical Program Committee

Imad Aad, EPFL, Switzerland 
Giuseppe Bianchi, University of Roma Tor Vergata, Italy 
Azzedine Boukerche, SITE, University of Ottawa, Canada 
Jiannong Cao, Hong Kong Polytechnic University, Hong Kong 
Liang Cheng, Lehigh University, USA 
Sunghyun Choi, Seoul National University, Korea 
Jing Deng, University of New Orleans, USA 
Christos Douligeris, University of Piraeus, Greece 
Xiaojiang (James) Du, North Dakota State University, USA 
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hi all,
When two MANETs merge, IP address conflicts can occur. If any node =
changes its address then problems like broken routing fabrics and broken =
on going communications occur. I am wondering if MANETs use IPv6 =
addresses (since IPv6 addresses are based on MAC addresses and are =
therefore unique), these problems will not occur ? Or there can be =
situations when even IPv6 addresses will conflict ?=20

Faisal.
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<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2>hi all,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2>When two MANETs merge, IP =
address=20
conflicts can occur. If any node changes its address then problems like =
broken=20
routing fabrics and broken on going communications occur. I am wondering =
if=20
MANETs use IPv6 addresses (since IPv6 addresses are based on&nbsp;MAC =
addresses=20
and are therefore unique), these problems will not&nbsp;occur ?&nbsp;Or =
there=20
can be situations when even IPv6 addresses will conflict ? </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" =
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<P>i am working on cluster based routing protocol.please let me know where can i get the NS implementation of the protocol.</P>
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Faisal,

In "MANETconf: Configuration of Hosts in a Mobile Ad Hoc Network" 
(Section III.C - Hardware-based Addressing) the authors list five points 
to why using IPv6 addresses+Ehternet addresses is not a good idea:

1. MANET nodes are not restricted to using network interface cards 
(NICs) with 48-bit IEEE-assigned uniqueMAC addresses. In fact, the 
TCP/IP protocol stack should work on a variety of data-link layer 
implementations. So, if this approach is employed, specific 
implementations would be required for each type of hardware. What if the 
underlying data-link layer solutions corresponds to GSM, Bluetooth, etc.?

2. For some data-link layer solutions the interface cards do not have 
unique addresses.

3. It is possible to change the MAC address of cards, either by 
reprogramming the EEPROM in which the address is stored or through 
commands like ifconfig. So, uniqueness of MAC addresses cannot be 
guaranteed.

4. There are known instances of multiple NIC cards from the same vendor 
having the same MAC address.

5. With hardware-based addressing the identity of a node can be easily 
determined from its IP address. This raises concerns about privacy.

Regards
Ali

Faisal Adeem Siddiqui wrote:

> hi all,
> When two MANETs merge, IP address conflicts can occur. If any node 
> changes its address then problems like broken routing fabrics and 
> broken on going communications occur. I am wondering if MANETs use 
> IPv6 addresses (since IPv6 addresses are based on MAC addresses and 
> are therefore unique), these problems will not occur ? Or there can be 
> situations when even IPv6 addresses will conflict ?
>  
> Faisal.
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>manet mailing list
>manet@ietf.org
>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet
>  
>

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Faisal,<br>
<br>
In "<i><big><font size="-1"><big>MANETconf: Configuration of Hosts in a
Mobile Ad Hoc Network" </big></font></big></i><big><font size="-1"><big>(Section
III.C - Hardware-based Addressing) the authors list five points to why
using IPv6 addresses+Ehternet addresses</big></font></big><big><font
 size="-1"><big> is not a good idea:<br>
</big></font></big><i><big><font size="-1"><big><br>
1. MANET nodes are not restricted to using network interface cards
(NICs) with 48-bit IEEE-assigned uniqueMAC addresses. In fact, the
TCP/IP protocol stack should work on a variety of data-link layer
implementations. So, if this approach is employed, specific
implementations would be required for each type of hardware. What if
the underlying data-link layer solutions corresponds to GSM, Bluetooth,
etc.?<br>
<br>
2. For some data-link layer solutions the interface cards do not have
unique addresses.<br>
<br>
3. It is possible to change the MAC address of cards, either by
reprogramming the EEPROM in which the address is stored or through
commands like ifconfig. So, uniqueness of MAC addresses cannot be
guaranteed.<br>
<br>
4. There are known instances of multiple NIC cards from the same vendor
having the same MAC address.<br>
<br>
5. With hardware-based addressing the identity of a node can be easily
determined from its IP address. This raises concerns about privacy.<br>
</big></font></big></i><br>
Regards<br>
Ali<br>
<br>
Faisal Adeem Siddiqui wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid01a501c4ecf2$98f21820$bbcb6bd2@ajoudayhakyu"
 type="cite">
  <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; ">
  <meta content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1479" name="GENERATOR">
  <style></style>
  <div><font face="Comic Sans MS" size="2">hi all,</font></div>
  <div><font face="Comic Sans MS" size="2">When two MANETs merge, IP
address conflicts can occur. If any node changes its address then
problems like broken routing fabrics and broken on going communications
occur. I am wondering if MANETs use IPv6 addresses (since IPv6
addresses are based on&nbsp;MAC addresses and are therefore unique), these
problems will not&nbsp;occur ?&nbsp;Or there can be situations when even IPv6
addresses will conflict ? </font></div>
  <div>&nbsp;</div>
  <div><font face="Comic Sans MS" size="2">Faisal.</font></div>
  <pre wrap="">
<hr size="4" width="90%">
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Subject: RE: [manet] 802.11, MANETs and mesh networks?
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Hi Claudio, hi all, and happy xmas holidays,

I agree with you when you depict a meshnetworking/ubiquitous computing =
future, but I have some considerations about the second part of your =
intervention.

First of all, I think that ad hoc networking refers mainly to layer 3 =
(not considering cross-layering issues that are layer 1/2 technology =
specific). This implies that a MANET could be built for example on =
Bluetooth or Zigbee technology if you need only some kilo Bytes or on =
WiMax if you need more bandwidth, not just on WiFi. In all these cases =
layer 3 issues remains *roughly* the same. =20

Second, in what I call a Lego-like approach you try to adapt existing =
mature (except WiMax of course) technologies, that are optimized for a =
certain type of architecture, to the ad hoc, and specifically MANET, =
architecture. The main advantage of this approach is that products are =
already available and "easy to use", but the disadvantage is that you =
undergo several trade-offs. In this sense there is no MANET technology.

Related to the second consideration, in the short term advantages exceed =
disadvantages and then some task or working groups arise in order to =
"patch" existing technologies, while R&D centers study on a true MANET =
technology.

About your last consideration about the use of 802.11 as underlying =
technology for MANETs, I suggest you to check the following PARs @ =
http://www.ieee802.org/11/PARs/

- 802.11p TGp - Amendment to the current 802.11 Standard to provide =
Wireless Access for Vehicular Environments =20
- 802.11r TGr - Amendment to the current 802.11 Standard to provide Fast =
BSS - Transition=20
- 802.11s TGs - Amendment to the current 802.11 Standard to provide =
Extended Service Set Mesh Networking =20
- 802.11u TGu - Amendment to the current 802.11 Standard to provide =
Interworking with External Networks=20

That are related to adding mesh networking capabilities to 802.11.

Hope this has been useful

Best regards

	Giorgio


------------------------------------------
Giorgio Mulas | Researcher

CEFRIEL =AD Politecnico di Milano
Via Fucini, 2 =B7 20133 Milano (Italy)

p. +39 02 23954 265
f. +39 02 23954 465
e. giorgio.mulas@cefriel.it





>=20
>=20
> Hello to the MANET community and merry XMAS to you all.=20
>=20
> When the holidays will be over, I would like to open a=20
> discussion on a subject that is not 100% related to MANETs=20
> but could still interest some of you.=20
>=20
> I assume that 802.11 is the standard that has won the market=20
> for wireless LAN applications.=20
> Now, in my vision, one of the future developments of =20
> wireless networks in the close future is the cooperation of=20
> MANETs and wireless mesh networks.=20
> Wireless mesh networks are networks that are essentially=20
> composed by mobile and fixed wireless nodes: the fixed nodes=20
> are used to cover a local area. The benefit of mesh=20
> architecture is that if that we add fault and congestion=20
> tolerance by using redudancy of nodes. In other words, a=20
> dense mesh network that runs self-organizing routing=20
> protocols and  self organizing congestion-avoidance=20
> protocols, will re-route traffic to avoid broken links and=20
> congested nodes.=20
> Mesh networks will allow to extend MANETs, because two farway=20
> mobile nodes will be able to connect to each other by using =20
> the mesh network nodes. In this scenario, two close mobile=20
> nodes will connect tdirectly without passing throuhg any mesh=20
> network node.
>=20
> Now the question is: is  this possible using 802.11 standard?=20
> In my opinion the answer in NO because in 802.11 a device can=20
> be EITHER in Ad-hoc OR in infrastructure mode. To my=20
> knowledge, in 802.11 two access points cannot connect to each=20
> other  using wireless connection or at least this is not=20
> possible in a standard configuration.=20
>=20
> Am I right? Am I missing something? for comparison, you could=20
> check the MEA technology by a company named MeshNetworks,=20
> recently bought by Motorola (www.meshnetworks.com).
>=20
> Thanks for your answers and merry XMAS again=A7
>=20
> Claudio=20
>=20
> -------------------------------------------------
> This mail sent through Institut Eurecom Webmail:=20
> http://webmail.eurecom.fr
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> manet mailing list
> manet@ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet
>=20

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From manet-bounces@ietf.org  Wed Dec 29 05:00:22 2004
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Subject: RE: [manet] WG Review: Recharter of Mobile Ad-hoc Networks (manet)
Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 10:53:25 +0100
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Thread-Topic: [manet] WG Review: Recharter of Mobile Ad-hoc Networks (manet)
Thread-Index: AcTpn4RXVd5G05NTTlirnLV3NHixXQD7JQUg
From: "Giorgio Mulas" <giorgio.mulas@cefriel.it>
To: <dbottazzi@deis.unibo.it>, <iesg@ietf.org>,
        "The IESG" <iesg-secretary@ietf.org>, <IETF-Announce@ietf.org>
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Hi All,
Fully agree with Dario. Multicast!

B.r. and happy new year

Giorgio=20


------------------------------------------
Giorgio Mulas | Researcher

CEFRIEL =AD Politecnico di Milano
Via Fucini, 2 =B7 20133 Milano (Italy)

p. +39 02 23954 265
f. +39 02 23954 465
e. giorgio.mulas@cefriel.it


> -----Original Message-----
> From: manet-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:manet-bounces@ietf.org]=20
> On Behalf Of dbottazzi@deis.unibo.it
> Sent: venerd=EC 24 dicembre 2004 10.51
> To: iesg@ietf.org; The IESG; IETF-Announce@ietf.org
> Cc: Ian Chakeres; manet@ietf.org; Joseph Macker
> Subject: Re: [manet] WG Review: Recharter of Mobile Ad-hoc=20
> Networks (manet)
>=20
>=20
>=20
> hi all,=20
>     IMHO it the MANET charter should amplify its scope to=20
> address multicast.=20
> =20
> best regards and merry xmas!=20
>      Dario
>=20
> The IESG <iesg-secretary@ietf.org> said:
>=20
> > A modified charter has been submitted for the Mobile Ad-hoc=20
> Networks=20
> > (manet)
> > working group in the Routing Area of the IETF. The IESG has=20
> not made any=20
> > determination as yet. The following description was=20
> submitted, and is=20
> > provided for informational purposes only. Please send your=20
> comments to=20
> > the IESG mailing list (iesg@ietf.org) by December 30th.
> >=20
> > +++
> >=20
> > Mobile Ad-hoc Networks (manet) =
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> >=20
> > Current Status: Active Working Group
> >=20
> > Description of Working Group:
> >=20
> > The purpose of the MANET working group is to standardize IP routing=20
> > protocol functionality suitable for wireless routing application=20
> > within both static and dynamic topologies with increased=20
> dynamics due=20
> > to node motion or other factors.
> >=20
> > Approaches are intended to be relatively lightweight in nature,=20
> > suitable for multiple hardware and wireless environments,=20
> and address=20
> > scenarios where MANETs are deployed at the edges of an IP=20
> > infrastructure. Hybrid mesh infrastructures (e.g., a=20
> mixture of fixed=20
> > and mobile routers) should also be supported by MANET=20
> specifications=20
> > and management features.
> >=20
> > Using mature components from previous work on experimental reactive=20
> > and proactive protocols, the WG will develop two Standards track=20
> > routing protocol
> > specifications:
> >=20
> > - Reactive MANET Protocol (RMP)
> > - Proactive MANET Protocol (PMP)
> >=20
> > If significant commonality between RMRP and PMRP protocol=20
> modules is=20
> > observed, the WG may decide to go with a converged=20
> approach. Both IPv4=20
> > and IPv6 will be supported. Routing security requirements=20
> and issues=20
> > will also be addressed.
> >=20
> > The MANET WG will also develop a scoped forwarding protocol=20
> that can=20
> > efficiently flood data packets to all participating MANET=20
> nodes. The=20
> > primary purpose of this mechanism is a simplified best effort=20
> > multicast forwarding function. The use of this protocol is=20
> intended to=20
> > be applied ONLY within MANET routing areas and the WG=20
> effort will be=20
> > limited to routing layer design issues.
> >=20
> > The MANET WG will pay attention to the OSPF-MANET protocol=20
> work within=20
> > the OSPF WG and IRTF work that is addressing research=20
> topics related=20
> > to MANET environments.
> >=20
> > _______________________________________________
> > manet mailing list
> > manet@ietf.org
> > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet
> >=20
>=20
> --=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> manet mailing list
> manet@ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet
>=20

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Hi all
 
Can anyone please let me know the antenna range of 802.11b according to the IEEE spec.
 
Most of the researchers using ns2 use a range of 250 m (which is the default range in ns2), some use 200m and some papers use 300m. 
 
Can any anyone please let me know the ideal antenna range of 802.11b according to the spec
 
Regards
MU
 

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<DIV>Hi all</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Can anyone please let me know the antenna range of 802.11b according to the IEEE spec.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Most of the researchers using ns2 use a range of 250 m (which is the default range in ns2), some use 200m and some papers use 300m. </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Can any anyone please let me know the ideal antenna range of 802.11b according to the spec</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Regards</DIV>
<DIV>MU</DIV>
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Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 09:01:18 -0800 (PST)
From: pakorn kulsirimongkol <hongzing_add@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [manet] 802.11b ideal antenna range according to IEEE spec
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Dear, sir
           I would like to know about these information too.this transmission range , is it maximum of ad hoc card? How many the processing time is used in simulation? how many the time out is used for retransmit any packet again ?
 
sincerely
pakorn k.


manet user <ietf_manet@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi all
 
Can anyone please let me know the antenna range of 802.11b according to the IEEE spec.
 
Most of the researchers using ns2 use a range of 250 m (which is the default range in ns2), some use 200m and some papers use 300m. 
 
Can any anyone please let me know the ideal antenna range of 802.11b according to the spec
 
Regards
MU
 

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<DIV>
<DIV>Dear, sir</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I would like to know about these information too.this transmission range , is it maximum of ad hoc card? How many the processing time is used in simulation? how many the time out is used for retransmit any packet again ?</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>sincerely</DIV>
<DIV>pakorn k.</DIV>
<DIV><BR><BR><B><I>manet user &lt;ietf_manet@yahoo.com&gt;</I></B> wrote:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">
<DIV>Hi all</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Can anyone please let me know the antenna range of 802.11b according to the IEEE spec.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Most of the researchers using ns2 use a range of 250 m (which is the default range in ns2), some use 200m and some papers use 300m. </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Can any anyone please let me know the ideal antenna range of 802.11b according to the spec</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Regards</DIV>
<DIV>MU</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<P>__________________________________________________<BR>Do You Yahoo!?<BR>Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around <BR>http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________<BR>manet mailing list<BR>manet@ietf.org<BR>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet<BR></P></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><p>__________________________________________________<br>Do You Yahoo!?<br>Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around <br>http://mail.yahoo.com 
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From: "Andreas Yankopolus" <ayank@scires.com>
To: "<"<manet@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [manet] 802.11b ideal antenna range according to IEEE spec
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Can anyone please let me know the antenna range of 802.11b according to =
the IEEE spec.
=20
Most of the researchers using ns2 use a range of 250 m (which is the =
default range in ns2), some use 200m and some papers use 300m.=20
=20
Can any anyone please let me know the ideal antenna range of 802.11b =
according to the spec
=20
Picking a fixed range is a gross simplification. The range varies =
tremendously with power, antenna type/orientation, bit rate, weather, =
terrain, and many other factors. In open terrain, we often closed 1=962 km =
links using 7 dBi omni vehicle mount antennas and 20 dBm 802.11b cards =
running at 1 or 2 Mbps.
=20
Intersil published a great application note some time back on calculating =
link budgets, which is the way to go for calculating an ideal range:
=20
http://www.sss-mag.com/pdf/an9804.pdf=20
=20
Cheers,
=20
Andreas


--=_8BAB159C.50316AE2
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Content-Description: HTML
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1"=
>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 2px; FONT: 8pt Tahoma; MARGIN-LEFT: 2px">
<DIV><EM><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>Can anyone please let me =
know the=20
antenna range of 802.11b according to the IEEE spec.</FONT></EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3></FONT></EM>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><EM><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>Most of the researchers =
using ns2=20
use a range of 250 m (which is the default range in ns2), some use 200m =
and some=20
papers use 300m. </FONT></EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3></FONT></EM>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><EM><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>Can any anyone please let =
me know=20
the ideal antenna range of 802.11b according to the spec</FONT></EM></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>Picking a fixed range is a =
gross=20
simplification. The range varies tremendously with power, antenna=20
type/orientation, bit rate, weather, terrain, and many other factors. In =
open=20
terrain, we often closed 1=962 km links using&nbsp;7 dBi omni vehicle =
mount=20
antennas and 20 dBm 802.11b cards running at 1 or 2 Mbps.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>Intersil published a great =
application=20
note some time back on calculating link budgets, which is the way to go =
for=20
calculating an ideal range:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><!--StartFragment --><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><A=20
href=3D"http://www.sss-mag.com/pdf/an9804.pdf">http://www.sss-mag.com/pdf/a=
n9804.pdf</A>=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>Cheers,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>Andreas</FONT></DIV></BODY></H=
TML>

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From: dev audsin <ietf_dev@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [manet] 802.11b ideal antenna range according to IEEE spec
To: Andreas Yankopolus <ayank@scires.com>, "<" <manet@ietf.org>
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Hi Andreas

Thanks for the reply. I understand that the antenna
range depends tremendously on factors like power,
antenna type/orientation, bit rate, weather, terrain
etc.=20

But my question is there any specific ideal range
specified in the  IEEE 802.11b spec under ideal
conditions

I am not very familiar with the PHY and sorry for
asking very naive ques like this. I searched for the
IEEE spec on 802.11b but couldnt find it. Any idea
where i can find it.

Regards

MU

--- Andreas Yankopolus <ayank@scires.com> wrote:

> Can anyone please let me know the antenna range of
> 802.11b according to the IEEE spec.
> =20
> Most of the researchers using ns2 use a range of 250
> m (which is the default range in ns2), some use 200m
> and some papers use 300m.=20
> =20
> Can any anyone please let me know the ideal antenna
> range of 802.11b according to the spec
> =20
> Picking a fixed range is a gross simplification. The
> range varies tremendously with power, antenna
> type/orientation, bit rate, weather, terrain, and
> many other factors. In open terrain, we often closed
> 1=962 km links using 7 dBi omni vehicle mount antennas
> and 20 dBm 802.11b cards running at 1 or 2 Mbps.
> =20
> Intersil published a great application note some
> time back on calculating link budgets, which is the
> way to go for calculating an ideal range:
> =20
> http://www.sss-mag.com/pdf/an9804.pdf=20
> =20
> Cheers,
> =20
> Andreas
>=20
> > _______________________________________________
> manet mailing list
> manet@ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet
>=20



	=09
__________________________________=20
Do you Yahoo!?=20
Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today!=20
http://my.yahoo.com=20
=20


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To: dev audsin <ietf_dev@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [manet] 802.11b ideal antenna range according to IEEE spec
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Hi,

The IEEE 802.11 standard defines a set of requirements for a card to=20
interoperate with other 802.11 cards, so it does not specify an "ideal"=20
range. (The ideal range should be equal to the distance to an intended=20
receiver, which can be short or long.) However, it accounts for 1 us of=20
propagation delay in its timing, which is 300m at the speed of light.=20
That is the only range related parameter I know of if you do not want to=20
touch any PHY layer and wireless propagation issues.

Note that actual 802.11 cards can accommodate a longer propagation delay=20
as witnessed by many people.

Mineo

dev audsin wrote:
> Hi Andreas
>=20
> Thanks for the reply. I understand that the antenna
> range depends tremendously on factors like power,
> antenna type/orientation, bit rate, weather, terrain
> etc.=20
>=20
> But my question is there any specific ideal range
> specified in the  IEEE 802.11b spec under ideal
> conditions
>=20
> I am not very familiar with the PHY and sorry for
> asking very naive ques like this. I searched for the
> IEEE spec on 802.11b but couldnt find it. Any idea
> where i can find it.
>=20
> Regards
>=20
> MU
>=20
> --- Andreas Yankopolus <ayank@scires.com> wrote:
>=20
>=20
>>Can anyone please let me know the antenna range of
>>802.11b according to the IEEE spec.
>>=20
>>Most of the researchers using ns2 use a range of 250
>>m (which is the default range in ns2), some use 200m
>>and some papers use 300m.=20
>>=20
>>Can any anyone please let me know the ideal antenna
>>range of 802.11b according to the spec
>>=20
>>Picking a fixed range is a gross simplification. The
>>range varies tremendously with power, antenna
>>type/orientation, bit rate, weather, terrain, and
>>many other factors. In open terrain, we often closed
>>1=962 km links using 7 dBi omni vehicle mount antennas
>>and 20 dBm 802.11b cards running at 1 or 2 Mbps.
>>=20
>>Intersil published a great application note some
>>time back on calculating link budgets, which is the
>>way to go for calculating an ideal range:
>>=20
>>http://www.sss-mag.com/pdf/an9804.pdf=20
>>=20
>>Cheers,
>>=20
>>Andreas
>>
>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>
>>manet mailing list
>>manet@ietf.org
>>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet
>>
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> 	=09
> __________________________________=20
> Do you Yahoo!?=20
> Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today!=20
> http://my.yahoo.com=20
> =20
>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> manet mailing list
> manet@ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet


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Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 11:07:10 +0100
To: Giorgio Mulas <giorgio.mulas@cefriel.it>
Subject: RE: [manet] 802.11, MANETs and mesh networks?
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Ciao Giorgio e Buon anno...

OK, of course I agree 100% with you about the fact that the advances that=
 derive
from mesh networking are usable regardless of the wireless technology on =
the top
of it.

And of course I agree on the fact that 802.11 was not born for that purpo=
se and
that advantages exceed disadvantages at the moment.

So more or less I agree on anything and I will read the IEEE papers you s=
uggest.

My question was a little bit more oriented to today real life. I could re=
state
it as follows:

If today I want to deploy a mesh network topology for veichular applicati=
ons
using 802.11 as a wireless technology, could I do that in  a cost and
performances  effective way?
Is it true that such an architecture would need that all the access point=
s have
two interfaces, one to be used for connections from mobile nodes and the =
second
one to route the traffic toward other access points of the mesh?
Is there any way, today and with 802.11, to make so that a mobile node ca=
nnot
connect directly to another mobile node (in ad-hoc mode) or to an access =
point
without changing any configuration?

Ciao

Claudio

Claudio



Quoting Giorgio Mulas <giorgio.mulas@cefriel.it>:

> Hi Claudio, hi all, and happy xmas holidays,
>=20
> I agree with you when you depict a meshnetworking/ubiquitous computing
> future, but I have some considerations about the second part of your
> intervention.
>=20
> First of all, I think that ad hoc networking refers mainly to layer 3 (=
not
> considering cross-layering issues that are layer 1/2 technology specifi=
c).
> This implies that a MANET could be built for example on Bluetooth or Zi=
gbee
> technology if you need only some kilo Bytes or on WiMax if you need mor=
e
> bandwidth, not just on WiFi. In all these cases layer 3 issues remains
> *roughly* the same. =20
>=20
> Second, in what I call a Lego-like approach you try to adapt existing m=
ature
> (except WiMax of course) technologies, that are optimized for a certain=
 type
> of architecture, to the ad hoc, and specifically MANET, architecture. T=
he
> main advantage of this approach is that products are already available =
and
> "easy to use", but the disadvantage is that you undergo several trade-o=
ffs.
> In this sense there is no MANET technology.
>=20
> Related to the second consideration, in the short term advantages excee=
d
> disadvantages and then some task or working groups arise in order to "p=
atch"
> existing technologies, while R&D centers study on a true MANET technolo=
gy.
>=20
> About your last consideration about the use of 802.11 as underlying
> technology for MANETs, I suggest you to check the following PARs @
> http://www.ieee802.org/11/PARs/
>=20
> - 802.11p TGp - Amendment to the current 802.11 Standard to provide Wir=
eless
> Access for Vehicular Environments =20
> - 802.11r TGr - Amendment to the current 802.11 Standard to provide Fas=
t BSS
> - Transition=20
> - 802.11s TGs - Amendment to the current 802.11 Standard to provide Ext=
ended
> Service Set Mesh Networking =20
> - 802.11u TGu - Amendment to the current 802.11 Standard to provide
> Interworking with External Networks=20
>=20
> That are related to adding mesh networking capabilities to 802.11.
>=20
> Hope this has been useful
>=20
> Best regards
>=20
> 	Giorgio
>=20
>=20
> ------------------------------------------
> Giorgio Mulas | Researcher
>=20
> CEFRIEL =AD Politecnico di Milano
> Via Fucini, 2 =B7 20133 Milano (Italy)
>=20
> p. +39 02 23954 265
> f. +39 02 23954 465
> e. giorgio.mulas@cefriel.it
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > Hello to the MANET community and merry XMAS to you all.=20
> >=20
> > When the holidays will be over, I would like to open a=20
> > discussion on a subject that is not 100% related to MANETs=20
> > but could still interest some of you.=20
> >=20
> > I assume that 802.11 is the standard that has won the market=20
> > for wireless LAN applications.=20
> > Now, in my vision, one of the future developments of =20
> > wireless networks in the close future is the cooperation of=20
> > MANETs and wireless mesh networks.=20
> > Wireless mesh networks are networks that are essentially=20
> > composed by mobile and fixed wireless nodes: the fixed nodes=20
> > are used to cover a local area. The benefit of mesh=20
> > architecture is that if that we add fault and congestion=20
> > tolerance by using redudancy of nodes. In other words, a=20
> > dense mesh network that runs self-organizing routing=20
> > protocols and  self organizing congestion-avoidance=20
> > protocols, will re-route traffic to avoid broken links and=20
> > congested nodes.=20
> > Mesh networks will allow to extend MANETs, because two farway=20
> > mobile nodes will be able to connect to each other by using =20
> > the mesh network nodes. In this scenario, two close mobile=20
> > nodes will connect tdirectly without passing throuhg any mesh=20
> > network node.
> >=20
> > Now the question is: is  this possible using 802.11 standard?=20
> > In my opinion the answer in NO because in 802.11 a device can=20
> > be EITHER in Ad-hoc OR in infrastructure mode. To my=20
> > knowledge, in 802.11 two access points cannot connect to each=20
> > other  using wireless connection or at least this is not=20
> > possible in a standard configuration.=20
> >=20
> > Am I right? Am I missing something? for comparison, you could=20
> > check the MEA technology by a company named MeshNetworks,=20
> > recently bought by Motorola (www.meshnetworks.com).
> >=20
> > Thanks for your answers and merry XMAS again=A7
> >=20
> > Claudio=20
> >=20
> > -------------------------------------------------
> > This mail sent through Institut Eurecom Webmail:=20
> > http://webmail.eurecom.fr
> >=20
> > _______________________________________________
> > manet mailing list
> > manet@ietf.org
> > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet
> >=20
>=20




-------------------------------------------------
This mail sent through Institut Eurecom Webmail: http://webmail.eurecom.f=
r

_______________________________________________
manet mailing list
manet@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet


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From: "Lusheng Ji" <lji@research.att.com>
To: <lavecchc@eurecom.fr>, "'Giorgio Mulas'" <giorgio.mulas@cefriel.it>
Subject: RE: [manet] 802.11, MANETs and mesh networks?
Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 11:25:22 -0500
Organization: AT&T Labs Research
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Greetings!

Sorry for jumping in.  On this day before the New Year holiday, sitting =
in
an empty office, I find your topic quite interesting ;)  So here is my 2
cents to stir up the discussion a little more.

A point of access does not have to be an "AP".  Set up a node bridging
between an Ethernet interface and an ad hoc mode 802.11 interface, you =
have
yourself a point of access (to Ethernet DS) too.=20

In typical MANET/Mesh scenarios, there is really not much incentive of =
using
the additional functions of 802.11 AP.  The whole network has to be on =
the
same channel and using the same basic transmission rates anyway.  =
Regarding
functions such as authentication and security, well, my impression is =
that
MANET/Mesh is not there yet to talk about these, especially if you are
thinking about 11i.  Association is a double edged sword, which we may =
not
want in MANET/Mesh either.  Beacons?  Well they are good but MANET nodes
typically do their own hellos and gateway advertisements anyway.  After
stripping off these extraneous functions, what is left in an AP that we
really need for typical MANET/Mesh scenarios?  Actually not much =
different
from what any other ad hoc mode nodes have.  Then why not just putting =
up
another ad hoc node and stabbing a RJ45 plug into its back and using it =
as
the point of access?

Okay what if you want real APs, not faked ones?  There are a couple of
options too.=20

Among the more recent AP products, many of them support something called =
the
"wireless distribution system", or WDS.  WDS enables APs to talk to each
other over wireless directly.  It also enables layer 2 forwarding in an
802.11 mesh because WDS frames use 4 MAC addresses not 3.  The =
additional
MAC address could be used to preserve the original source identity.  You
might want to look into that.  It's been in the standard but had not =
been
implemented until recently.  An AP can use the same physical interface =
to do
its AP things and WDS things.  The catch is: while this solves some
problems, it may open another can of worms.  In this type of =
deployments,
the APs need to be deployed very densely since they need to be in range =
with
each other.  Assuming they do not do super communication among =
themselves,
the AP density needs to be roughly 4 times (if you use square to model =
the
shape of each cell) of a WLAN type of deployment (without inter-AP =
wireless
communication) covering the same area.  The added costs, more frequent
mobile client handoffs....

Well, at last, if you really really want an all around all time
"WDS+adhoc+DCF/PCF" super power AP, seems that you would have to make =
you
own.  Fortunately as far as I can see, the differences between what you =
need
and what current APs offer pretty much are all above firmware level.  So =
you
could play with an open source kernel/user space AP implementation such =
as
the hostapd to tailor it towards your purpose.  Efficient or not is =
another
issue, but it is def. out of scope for this thread :)

Hope the above helps a little. =20
Oh and, happy New Year!

Regards,

Lusheng Ji, Ph.D.
Senior Technical Specialist
AT&T Labs Research
180 Park Ave.,
Florham Park, NJ 07932, USA

-----Original Message-----
From: manet-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:manet-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf =
Of
lavecchc@eurecom.fr
Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 5:07 AM
To: Giorgio Mulas
Cc: manet@ietf.org; Claudio.Lavecchia@eurecom.fr
Subject: RE: [manet] 802.11, MANETs and mesh networks?

Ciao Giorgio e Buon anno...

OK, of course I agree 100% with you about the fact that the advances =
that
derive
from mesh networking are usable regardless of the wireless technology on =
the
top
of it.

And of course I agree on the fact that 802.11 was not born for that =
purpose
and
that advantages exceed disadvantages at the moment.

So more or less I agree on anything and I will read the IEEE papers you
suggest.

My question was a little bit more oriented to today real life. I could
restate
it as follows:

If today I want to deploy a mesh network topology for veichular =
applications
using 802.11 as a wireless technology, could I do that in  a cost and
performances  effective way?
Is it true that such an architecture would need that all the access =
points
have
two interfaces, one to be used for connections from mobile nodes and the
second
one to route the traffic toward other access points of the mesh?
Is there any way, today and with 802.11, to make so that a mobile node
cannot
connect directly to another mobile node (in ad-hoc mode) or to an access
point
without changing any configuration?

Ciao

Claudio

Claudio



Quoting Giorgio Mulas <giorgio.mulas@cefriel.it>:

> Hi Claudio, hi all, and happy xmas holidays,
>=20
> I agree with you when you depict a meshnetworking/ubiquitous computing
> future, but I have some considerations about the second part of your
> intervention.
>=20
> First of all, I think that ad hoc networking refers mainly to layer 3 =
(not
> considering cross-layering issues that are layer 1/2 technology =
specific).
> This implies that a MANET could be built for example on Bluetooth or
Zigbee
> technology if you need only some kilo Bytes or on WiMax if you need =
more
> bandwidth, not just on WiFi. In all these cases layer 3 issues remains
> *roughly* the same. =20
>=20
> Second, in what I call a Lego-like approach you try to adapt existing
mature
> (except WiMax of course) technologies, that are optimized for a =
certain
type
> of architecture, to the ad hoc, and specifically MANET, architecture. =
The
> main advantage of this approach is that products are already available =
and
> "easy to use", but the disadvantage is that you undergo several
trade-offs.
> In this sense there is no MANET technology.
>=20
> Related to the second consideration, in the short term advantages =
exceed
> disadvantages and then some task or working groups arise in order to
"patch"
> existing technologies, while R&D centers study on a true MANET =
technology.
>=20
> About your last consideration about the use of 802.11 as underlying
> technology for MANETs, I suggest you to check the following PARs @
> http://www.ieee802.org/11/PARs/
>=20
> - 802.11p TGp - Amendment to the current 802.11 Standard to provide
Wireless
> Access for Vehicular Environments =20
> - 802.11r TGr - Amendment to the current 802.11 Standard to provide =
Fast
BSS
> - Transition=20
> - 802.11s TGs - Amendment to the current 802.11 Standard to provide
Extended
> Service Set Mesh Networking =20
> - 802.11u TGu - Amendment to the current 802.11 Standard to provide
> Interworking with External Networks=20
>=20
> That are related to adding mesh networking capabilities to 802.11.
>=20
> Hope this has been useful
>=20
> Best regards
>=20
> 	Giorgio
>=20
>=20
> ------------------------------------------
> Giorgio Mulas | Researcher
>=20
> CEFRIEL =AD Politecnico di Milano
> Via Fucini, 2 =B7 20133 Milano (Italy)
>=20
> p. +39 02 23954 265
> f. +39 02 23954 465
> e. giorgio.mulas@cefriel.it
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > Hello to the MANET community and merry XMAS to you all.=20
> >=20
> > When the holidays will be over, I would like to open a=20
> > discussion on a subject that is not 100% related to MANETs=20
> > but could still interest some of you.=20
> >=20
> > I assume that 802.11 is the standard that has won the market=20
> > for wireless LAN applications.=20
> > Now, in my vision, one of the future developments of =20
> > wireless networks in the close future is the cooperation of=20
> > MANETs and wireless mesh networks.=20
> > Wireless mesh networks are networks that are essentially=20
> > composed by mobile and fixed wireless nodes: the fixed nodes=20
> > are used to cover a local area. The benefit of mesh=20
> > architecture is that if that we add fault and congestion=20
> > tolerance by using redudancy of nodes. In other words, a=20
> > dense mesh network that runs self-organizing routing=20
> > protocols and  self organizing congestion-avoidance=20
> > protocols, will re-route traffic to avoid broken links and=20
> > congested nodes.=20
> > Mesh networks will allow to extend MANETs, because two farway=20
> > mobile nodes will be able to connect to each other by using =20
> > the mesh network nodes. In this scenario, two close mobile=20
> > nodes will connect tdirectly without passing throuhg any mesh=20
> > network node.
> >=20
> > Now the question is: is  this possible using 802.11 standard?=20
> > In my opinion the answer in NO because in 802.11 a device can=20
> > be EITHER in Ad-hoc OR in infrastructure mode. To my=20
> > knowledge, in 802.11 two access points cannot connect to each=20
> > other  using wireless connection or at least this is not=20
> > possible in a standard configuration.=20
> >=20
> > Am I right? Am I missing something? for comparison, you could=20
> > check the MEA technology by a company named MeshNetworks,=20
> > recently bought by Motorola (www.meshnetworks.com).
> >=20
> > Thanks for your answers and merry XMAS again=A7
> >=20
> > Claudio=20
> >=20
> > -------------------------------------------------
> > This mail sent through Institut Eurecom Webmail:=20
> > http://webmail.eurecom.fr
> >=20
> > _______________________________________________
> > manet mailing list
> > manet@ietf.org
> > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet
> >=20
>=20




-------------------------------------------------
This mail sent through Institut Eurecom Webmail: =
http://webmail.eurecom.fr

_______________________________________________
manet mailing list
manet@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet



_______________________________________________
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manet@ietf.org
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Subject: RE: [manet] 802.11, MANETs and mesh networks?
Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 09:20:44 +0100
Message-ID: <9F1223587A755D47805AECAB7ECAF5D901C10ABC@swing.cefriel.it>
Thread-Topic: [manet] 802.11, MANETs and mesh networks?
Thread-Index: AcTuWhpdqjxM2FN0QJKM7TXf1chCGQAKSjRQACNI5hA=
From: "Giorgio Mulas" <giorgio.mulas@cefriel.it>
To: "Lusheng Ji" <lji@research.att.com>, <lavecchc@eurecom.fr>
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Hi,
Empty office here too ;-)
Thank you for your contribution. I completely agree to your =
considerations.

Happy new year!


------------------------------------------
Giorgio Mulas | Researcher

CEFRIEL =AD Politecnico di Milano
Via Fucini, 2 =B7 20133 Milano (Italy)

p. +39 02 23954 265
f. +39 02 23954 465
e. giorgio.mulas@cefriel.it


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lusheng Ji [mailto:lji@research.att.com]=20
> Sent: gioved=EC 30 dicembre 2004 17.25
> To: lavecchc@eurecom.fr; Giorgio Mulas
> Cc: manet@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [manet] 802.11, MANETs and mesh networks?
>=20
>=20
> Greetings!
>=20
> Sorry for jumping in.  On this day before the New Year=20
> holiday, sitting in an empty office, I find your topic quite=20
> interesting ;)  So here is my 2 cents to stir up the=20
> discussion a little more.
>=20
> A point of access does not have to be an "AP".  Set up a node=20
> bridging between an Ethernet interface and an ad hoc mode=20
> 802.11 interface, you have yourself a point of access (to=20
> Ethernet DS) too.=20
>=20
> In typical MANET/Mesh scenarios, there is really not much=20
> incentive of using the additional functions of 802.11 AP. =20
> The whole network has to be on the same channel and using the=20
> same basic transmission rates anyway.  Regarding functions=20
> such as authentication and security, well, my impression is=20
> that MANET/Mesh is not there yet to talk about these,=20
> especially if you are thinking about 11i.  Association is a=20
> double edged sword, which we may not want in MANET/Mesh=20
> either.  Beacons?  Well they are good but MANET nodes=20
> typically do their own hellos and gateway advertisements=20
> anyway.  After stripping off these extraneous functions, what=20
> is left in an AP that we really need for typical MANET/Mesh=20
> scenarios?  Actually not much different from what any other=20
> ad hoc mode nodes have.  Then why not just putting up another=20
> ad hoc node and stabbing a RJ45 plug into its back and using=20
> it as the point of access?
>=20
> Okay what if you want real APs, not faked ones?  There are a=20
> couple of options too.=20
>=20
> Among the more recent AP products, many of them support=20
> something called the "wireless distribution system", or WDS. =20
> WDS enables APs to talk to each other over wireless directly.=20
>  It also enables layer 2 forwarding in an 802.11 mesh because=20
> WDS frames use 4 MAC addresses not 3.  The additional MAC=20
> address could be used to preserve the original source=20
> identity.  You might want to look into that.  It's been in=20
> the standard but had not been implemented until recently.  An=20
> AP can use the same physical interface to do its AP things=20
> and WDS things.  The catch is: while this solves some=20
> problems, it may open another can of worms.  In this type of=20
> deployments, the APs need to be deployed very densely since=20
> they need to be in range with each other.  Assuming they do=20
> not do super communication among themselves, the AP density=20
> needs to be roughly 4 times (if you use square to model the=20
> shape of each cell) of a WLAN type of deployment (without=20
> inter-AP wireless
> communication) covering the same area.  The added costs, more=20
> frequent mobile client handoffs....
>=20
> Well, at last, if you really really want an all around all=20
> time "WDS+adhoc+DCF/PCF" super power AP, seems that you would=20
> have to make you own.  Fortunately as far as I can see, the=20
> differences between what you need and what current APs offer=20
> pretty much are all above firmware level.  So you could play=20
> with an open source kernel/user space AP implementation such=20
> as the hostapd to tailor it towards your purpose.  Efficient=20
> or not is another issue, but it is def. out of scope for this=20
> thread :)
>=20
> Hope the above helps a little. =20
> Oh and, happy New Year!
>=20
> Regards,
>=20
> Lusheng Ji, Ph.D.
> Senior Technical Specialist
> AT&T Labs Research
> 180 Park Ave.,
> Florham Park, NJ 07932, USA
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: manet-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:manet-bounces@ietf.org]=20
> On Behalf Of lavecchc@eurecom.fr
> Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 5:07 AM
> To: Giorgio Mulas
> Cc: manet@ietf.org; Claudio.Lavecchia@eurecom.fr
> Subject: RE: [manet] 802.11, MANETs and mesh networks?
>=20
> Ciao Giorgio e Buon anno...
>=20
> OK, of course I agree 100% with you about the fact that the=20
> advances that derive from mesh networking are usable=20
> regardless of the wireless technology on the top of it.
>=20
> And of course I agree on the fact that 802.11 was not born=20
> for that purpose and that advantages exceed disadvantages at=20
> the moment.
>=20
> So more or less I agree on anything and I will read the IEEE=20
> papers you suggest.
>=20
> My question was a little bit more oriented to today real=20
> life. I could restate it as follows:
>=20
> If today I want to deploy a mesh network topology for=20
> veichular applications using 802.11 as a wireless technology,=20
> could I do that in  a cost and performances  effective way?=20
> Is it true that such an architecture would need that all the=20
> access points have two interfaces, one to be used for=20
> connections from mobile nodes and the second one to route the=20
> traffic toward other access points of the mesh? Is there any=20
> way, today and with 802.11, to make so that a mobile node=20
> cannot connect directly to another mobile node (in ad-hoc=20
> mode) or to an access point without changing any configuration?
>=20
> Ciao
>=20
> Claudio
>=20
> Claudio
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Quoting Giorgio Mulas <giorgio.mulas@cefriel.it>:
>=20
> > Hi Claudio, hi all, and happy xmas holidays,
> >=20
> > I agree with you when you depict a=20
> meshnetworking/ubiquitous computing=20
> > future, but I have some considerations about the second=20
> part of your=20
> > intervention.
> >=20
> > First of all, I think that ad hoc networking refers mainly=20
> to layer 3=20
> > (not considering cross-layering issues that are layer 1/2=20
> technology=20
> > specific). This implies that a MANET could be built for example on=20
> > Bluetooth or
> Zigbee
> > technology if you need only some kilo Bytes or on WiMax if you need=20
> > more bandwidth, not just on WiFi. In all these cases layer 3 issues=20
> > remains
> > *roughly* the same. =20
> >=20
> > Second, in what I call a Lego-like approach you try to=20
> adapt existing
> mature
> > (except WiMax of course) technologies, that are optimized for a=20
> > certain
> type
> > of architecture, to the ad hoc, and specifically MANET,=20
> architecture.=20
> > The main advantage of this approach is that products are already=20
> > available and "easy to use", but the disadvantage is that=20
> you undergo=20
> > several
> trade-offs.
> > In this sense there is no MANET technology.
> >=20
> > Related to the second consideration, in the short term advantages=20
> > exceed disadvantages and then some task or working groups arise in=20
> > order to
> "patch"
> > existing technologies, while R&D centers study on a true MANET=20
> > technology.
> >=20
> > About your last consideration about the use of 802.11 as underlying=20
> > technology for MANETs, I suggest you to check the following PARs @=20
> > http://www.ieee802.org/11/PARs/
> >=20
> > - 802.11p TGp - Amendment to the current 802.11 Standard to provide
> Wireless
> > Access for Vehicular Environments
> > - 802.11r TGr - Amendment to the current 802.11 Standard to=20
> provide Fast
> BSS
> > - Transition
> > - 802.11s TGs - Amendment to the current 802.11 Standard to provide
> Extended
> > Service Set Mesh Networking
> > - 802.11u TGu - Amendment to the current 802.11 Standard to provide
> > Interworking with External Networks=20
> >=20
> > That are related to adding mesh networking capabilities to 802.11.
> >=20
> > Hope this has been useful
> >=20
> > Best regards
> >=20
> > 	Giorgio
> >=20
> >=20
> > ------------------------------------------
> > Giorgio Mulas | Researcher
> >=20
> > CEFRIEL =AD Politecnico di Milano
> > Via Fucini, 2 =B7 20133 Milano (Italy)
> >=20
> > p. +39 02 23954 265
> > f. +39 02 23954 465
> > e. giorgio.mulas@cefriel.it
> >=20
> >=20
> >=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > >=20
> > >=20
> > > Hello to the MANET community and merry XMAS to you all.
> > >=20
> > > When the holidays will be over, I would like to open a
> > > discussion on a subject that is not 100% related to MANETs=20
> > > but could still interest some of you.=20
> > >=20
> > > I assume that 802.11 is the standard that has won the market
> > > for wireless LAN applications.=20
> > > Now, in my vision, one of the future developments of =20
> > > wireless networks in the close future is the cooperation of=20
> > > MANETs and wireless mesh networks.=20
> > > Wireless mesh networks are networks that are essentially=20
> > > composed by mobile and fixed wireless nodes: the fixed nodes=20
> > > are used to cover a local area. The benefit of mesh=20
> > > architecture is that if that we add fault and congestion=20
> > > tolerance by using redudancy of nodes. In other words, a=20
> > > dense mesh network that runs self-organizing routing=20
> > > protocols and  self organizing congestion-avoidance=20
> > > protocols, will re-route traffic to avoid broken links and=20
> > > congested nodes.=20
> > > Mesh networks will allow to extend MANETs, because two farway=20
> > > mobile nodes will be able to connect to each other by using =20
> > > the mesh network nodes. In this scenario, two close mobile=20
> > > nodes will connect tdirectly without passing throuhg any mesh=20
> > > network node.
> > >=20
> > > Now the question is: is  this possible using 802.11 standard?
> > > In my opinion the answer in NO because in 802.11 a device can=20
> > > be EITHER in Ad-hoc OR in infrastructure mode. To my=20
> > > knowledge, in 802.11 two access points cannot connect to each=20
> > > other  using wireless connection or at least this is not=20
> > > possible in a standard configuration.=20
> > >=20
> > > Am I right? Am I missing something? for comparison, you could
> > > check the MEA technology by a company named MeshNetworks,=20
> > > recently bought by Motorola (www.meshnetworks.com).
> > >=20
> > > Thanks for your answers and merry XMAS again=A7
> > >=20
> > > Claudio
> > >=20
> > > -------------------------------------------------
> > > This mail sent through Institut Eurecom Webmail:
> > > http://webmail.eurecom.fr
> > >=20
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > manet mailing list
> > > manet@ietf.org
> > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet
> > >=20
> >=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> -------------------------------------------------
> This mail sent through Institut Eurecom Webmail:=20
> http://webmail.eurecom.fr
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> manet mailing list
> manet@ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet
>=20
>=20
>=20

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From manet-bounces@ietf.org  Fri Dec 31 13:22:37 2004
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Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 12:14:00 -0600 (CST)
From: Bin Lu <b0l4549@cs.tamu.edu>
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Subject: [manet] watchdog simulation code
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Hi,

Is there anyone who has simulated "watchdog" and would be nice to let me
use the code? Or does anybody know where I can find and download such
code? I'm doing some simulation on my intrusion detection which
uses the idea of "watchdog".

I'd appreciate your help very much.

Bin Lu

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