From nobody Thu Dec 1 07:55:32 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9F81129C2F for ; Thu, 1 Dec 2016 00:29:44 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -107.098 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-107.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-2.896, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MVJukVsZUK9m for ; Thu, 1 Dec 2016 00:29:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from rfc-editor.org (rfc-editor.org [4.31.198.49]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9B6BA129C2E for ; Thu, 1 Dec 2016 00:29:42 -0800 (PST) Received: by rfc-editor.org (Postfix, from userid 30) id 785D0B801CF; Thu, 1 Dec 2016 00:29:42 -0800 (PST) To: T.Clausen@computer.org, chris.dearlove@baesystems.com, philippe.jacquet@alcatel-lucent.com, ulrich@herberg.name, akatlas@gmail.com, db3546@att.com, aretana@cisco.com, sratliff@idirect.net, bebemaster@gmail.com X-PHP-Originating-Script: 30:errata_mail_lib.php From: RFC Errata System Message-Id: <20161201082942.785D0B801CF@rfc-editor.org> Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2016 00:29:42 -0800 (PST) Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 01 Dec 2016 07:55:29 -0800 Cc: manet@ietf.org, nmalykh@gmail.com, rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org Subject: [manet] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7181 (4874) X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2016 08:29:45 -0000 The following errata report has been submitted for RFC7181, "The Optimized Link State Routing Protocol Version 2". -------------------------------------- You may review the report below and at: http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=7181&eid=4874 -------------------------------------- Type: Technical Reported by: Nikolai Malykh Section: 17.1 Original Text ------------- If the router changes its originator address, then: 1. If there is no Originator Tuple with: * O_orig_addr = old originator address then create an Originator Tuple with: * O_orig_addr := old originator address The Originator Tuple (existing or new) with: * O_orig_addr = new originator address is then modified as follows: * O_time := current time + O_HOLD_TIME Corrected Text -------------- If the router changes its originator address, then: 1. If there is no Originator Tuple with: * O_orig_addr = old originator address then create an Originator Tuple with: * O_orig_addr := old originator address The Originator Tuple (existing or new) with: * O_orig_addr = old originator address is then modified as follows: * O_orig_addr := new originator address * O_time := current time + O_HOLD_TIME Notes ----- At the time of the modification Originator Tuple with O_orig_addr = new originator address does not yet exist. Instructions: ------------- This erratum is currently posted as "Reported". If necessary, please use "Reply All" to discuss whether it should be verified or rejected. When a decision is reached, the verifying party can log in to change the status and edit the report, if necessary. -------------------------------------- RFC7181 (draft-ietf-manet-olsrv2-19) -------------------------------------- Title : The Optimized Link State Routing Protocol Version 2 Publication Date : April 2014 Author(s) : T. Clausen, C. Dearlove, P. Jacquet, U. Herberg Category : PROPOSED STANDARD Source : Mobile Ad-hoc Networks Area : Routing Stream : IETF Verifying Party : IESG From nobody Thu Dec 1 07:55:38 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A851E12961D for ; Thu, 1 Dec 2016 02:00:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.816 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.816 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-2.896] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hWSRJWOLJ0EW for ; Thu, 1 Dec 2016 02:00:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from ukmta2.baesystems.com (ukmta2.baesystems.com [20.133.0.56]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6BCB91295FB for ; Thu, 1 Dec 2016 02:00:07 -0800 (PST) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.33,724,1477958400"; d="scan'208";a="46431253" Received: from unknown (HELO baemasmds016.greenlnk.net) ([10.15.207.101]) by ukmta2.baesystems.com with ESMTP; 01 Dec 2016 10:00:05 +0000 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.33,724,1477958400"; d="scan'208";a="145854911" Received: from glkxh0004v.greenlnk.net ([10.109.2.35]) by baemasmds016.greenlnk.net with ESMTP; 01 Dec 2016 10:00:05 +0000 Received: from GLKXM0002V.GREENLNK.net ([169.254.5.170]) by GLKXH0004V.GREENLNK.net ([10.109.2.35]) with mapi id 14.03.0248.002; Thu, 1 Dec 2016 10:00:05 +0000 From: "Dearlove, Christopher (UK)" To: RFC Errata System , "T.Clausen@computer.org" , "philippe.jacquet@alcatel-lucent.com" , "ulrich@herberg.name" , "akatlas@gmail.com" , "db3546@att.com" , "aretana@cisco.com" , "sratliff@idirect.net" , "bebemaster@gmail.com" Thread-Topic: [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7181 (4874) Thread-Index: AQHSS60WuoD3QYDwFEKBZFgZRrDAaKDy2Glg Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2016 10:00:04 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20161201082942.785D0B801CF@rfc-editor.org> In-Reply-To: <20161201082942.785D0B801CF@rfc-editor.org> Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.109.62.6] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 01 Dec 2016 07:55:29 -0800 Cc: "manet@ietf.org" , "nmalykh@gmail.com" Subject: Re: [manet] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7181 (4874) X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2016 10:00:10 -0000 Author. There is an issue, and the proposed resolution would work, and is probably = the minimal textual change. But it's potentially confusing creating a tuple= to immediately change it. I can see two possible better (in my opinion) texts, I'd appreciate comment= (especially from co-author) on preference to recommend as correction (incl= uding possibly for version I dislike). NEW (1): If the router changes its originator address, then: 1. If there is an Originator Tuple with: * O_orig_addr =3D old originator address then modify it as follows: * O_orig_addr :=3D new originator address * O_time :=3D current time + O_HOLD_TIME otherwise create an Originator Tuple with: * O_orig_addr :=3D new originator address * O_time :=3D current time + O_HOLD_TIME NEW (2): If the router changes its originator address, then: 1. If there is an Originator Tuple with: * O_orig_addr =3D old originator address then remove it. 2. Create an Originator Tuple with: * O_orig_addr :=3D new originator address * O_time :=3D current time + O_HOLD_TIME I think I prefer NEW (2). -- = Christopher Dearlove Senior Principal Engineer BAE Systems Applied Intelligence Laboratories __________________________________________________________________________ T: =A0+44 (0)1245 242194 =A0| =A0E: chris.dearlove@baesystems.com BAE Systems Applied Intelligence, Chelmsford Technology Park, Great Baddow,= Chelmsford, Essex CM2 8HN. www.baesystems.com/ai BAE Systems Applied Intelligence Limited Registered in England & Wales No: 01337451 Registered Office: Surrey Research Park, Guildford, Surrey, GU2 7YP -----Original Message----- From: RFC Errata System [mailto:rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org] = Sent: 01 December 2016 08:30 To: T.Clausen@computer.org; Dearlove, Christopher (UK); philippe.jacquet@al= catel-lucent.com; ulrich@herberg.name; akatlas@gmail.com; db3546@att.com; a= retana@cisco.com; sratliff@idirect.net; bebemaster@gmail.com Cc: nmalykh@gmail.com; manet@ietf.org; rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org Subject: [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7181 (4874) ----------------------! WARNING ! ---------------------- This message origi= nates from outside our organisation, either from an external partner or fro= m the internet. Consider carefully whether you should click on any links, open any attachme= nts or reply. Follow the 'Report Suspicious Emails' link on IT matters for instructions o= n reporting suspicious email messages. -------------------------------------------------------- The following errata report has been submitted for RFC7181, "The Optimized = Link State Routing Protocol Version 2". -------------------------------------- You may review the report below and at: http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=3D7181&eid=3D4874 -------------------------------------- Type: Technical Reported by: Nikolai Malykh Section: 17.1 Original Text ------------- If the router changes its originator address, then: 1. If there is no Originator Tuple with: * O_orig_addr =3D old originator address then create an Originator Tuple with: * O_orig_addr :=3D old originator address The Originator Tuple (existing or new) with: * O_orig_addr =3D new originator address is then modified as follows: * O_time :=3D current time + O_HOLD_TIME Corrected Text -------------- If the router changes its originator address, then: 1. If there is no Originator Tuple with: * O_orig_addr =3D old originator address then create an Originator Tuple with: * O_orig_addr :=3D old originator address The Originator Tuple (existing or new) with: * O_orig_addr =3D old originator address is then modified as follows: * O_orig_addr :=3D new originator address * O_time :=3D current time + O_HOLD_TIME Notes ----- At the time of the modification Originator Tuple with O_orig_addr =3D new o= riginator address does not yet exist. Instructions: ------------- This erratum is currently posted as "Reported". If necessary, please use "R= eply All" to discuss whether it should be verified or rejected. When a deci= sion is reached, the verifying party can log in to change the status and ed= it the report, if necessary. = -------------------------------------- RFC7181 (draft-ietf-manet-olsrv2-19) -------------------------------------- Title : The Optimized Link State Routing Protocol Version 2 Publication Date : April 2014 Author(s) : T. Clausen, C. Dearlove, P. Jacquet, U. Herberg Category : PROPOSED STANDARD Source : Mobile Ad-hoc Networks Area : Routing Stream : IETF Verifying Party : IESG ******************************************************************** This email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient please delete it from your system and notify the sender. You should not copy it or use it for any purpose nor disclose or distribute its contents to any other person. ******************************************************************** From nobody Sat Dec 3 00:11:39 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 241BD129594; Sat, 3 Dec 2016 00:11:35 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id F55Wbh8phGy2; Sat, 3 Dec 2016 00:11:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp-fr.alcatel-lucent.com (fr-hpida-esg-02.alcatel-lucent.com [135.245.210.21]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 537B012956C; Sat, 3 Dec 2016 00:11:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from fr712umx4.dmz.alcatel-lucent.com (unknown [135.245.210.45]) by Websense Email Security Gateway with ESMTPS id 97466F81B69AF; Sat, 3 Dec 2016 08:11:29 +0000 (GMT) Received: from fr712usmtp2.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (fr712usmtp2.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com [135.239.2.42]) by fr712umx4.dmz.alcatel-lucent.com (GMO-o) with ESMTP id uB38BQjr019791 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 3 Dec 2016 08:11:29 GMT Received: from FR711WXCHHUB01.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (fr711wxchhub01.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com [135.239.2.111]) by fr712usmtp2.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (GMO) with ESMTP id uB38BMMZ010482 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Sat, 3 Dec 2016 08:11:24 GMT Received: from FR712WXCHMBA15.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com ([169.254.7.116]) by FR711WXCHHUB01.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com ([135.239.2.111]) with mapi id 14.03.0301.000; Sat, 3 Dec 2016 09:11:20 +0100 From: "Scharf, Michael (Nokia - DE)" To: "draft-ietf-manet-dlep.all@ietf.org" , "tsv-art@ietf.org" , "tsv-ads@tools.ietf.org" Thread-Topic: TSV-ART review of draft-ietf-manet-dlep-25 Thread-Index: AdJNPNOQrabYujTRRk+3E9/lutelaQ== Date: Sat, 3 Dec 2016 08:11:19 +0000 Message-ID: <655C07320163294895BBADA28372AF5D48BE27C4@FR712WXCHMBA15.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> Accept-Language: de-DE, en-US Content-Language: de-DE X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [135.239.27.41] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "manet@ietf.org" Subject: [manet] TSV-ART review of draft-ietf-manet-dlep-25 X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 Dec 2016 08:11:35 -0000 Hi, I've reviewed this document as part of TSV-ART's ongoing effort to review k= ey IETF documents. These comments were written primarily for the transport = area directors, but are copied to the document's authors for their informat= ion and to allow them to address any issues raised. When done at the time o= f IETF Last Call, the authors should consider this review together with any= other last-call comments they receive. Please always CC tsv-art@ietf.org i= f you reply to or forward this review. This draft is basically ready for publication, but has nits that should be = fixed before publication. TSV-ART review comments: * I think the DLEP protocol makes an implicit assumption that the 1-hop lin= k between the router and the modem is unlikely to become a bottleneck, e.g.= , because its bandwidth is larger than the maximum possible bandwidth of th= e modem. I assume that in typical deployments this condition can be fulfill= ed, and the hop count limitation provides some safety measures. Yet, the li= nk between the router and modem could possibly run over a tunnel, with unkn= own performance characteristics (e.g., another wireless backhaul link). It = is unclear what a router would indeed learn from the information provided b= y DLEP in such a case. This scenario is not the target environment for the = protocol, but it would make sense to more explicitly spell out that assumpt= ion, e.g., in Section 1. =20 Other comments: * Page 9: "If the router and modem support both IPv4 and IPv6, the IPv6 tra= nsport MUST be used for the DLEP session." seems inconsistent with page 21:= "For routers supporting both IPv4 and IPv6 DLEP operation, it is RECOMMEND= ED that IPv6 be selected as the transport." * I am not an IANA expert but at first sight the IANA section does not comp= rehensively describe the policy for modifying the IANA registries (Section = 4 in RFC 5226). Is it "Standards Action"? This in particular matters for th= e extensions in Section 13.6. Thanks Michael From nobody Sat Dec 3 00:19:31 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7AC6129624; Sat, 3 Dec 2016 00:19:25 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UMqVsvI3NERZ; Sat, 3 Dec 2016 00:19:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp-fr.alcatel-lucent.com (fr-hpida-esg-02.alcatel-lucent.com [135.245.210.21]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7FAA3129594; Sat, 3 Dec 2016 00:19:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from fr712umx3.dmz.alcatel-lucent.com (unknown [135.245.210.42]) by Websense Email Security Gateway with ESMTPS id 10FB610951DF2; Sat, 3 Dec 2016 08:19:20 +0000 (GMT) Received: from fr711usmtp1.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (fr711usmtp1.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com [135.239.2.122]) by fr712umx3.dmz.alcatel-lucent.com (GMO-o) with ESMTP id uB38JLIB006135 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 3 Dec 2016 08:19:21 GMT Received: from FR711WXCHHUB01.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (fr711wxchhub01.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com [135.239.2.111]) by fr711usmtp1.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (GMO) with ESMTP id uB38JH1r004931 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Sat, 3 Dec 2016 08:19:19 GMT Received: from FR712WXCHMBA15.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com ([169.254.7.116]) by FR711WXCHHUB01.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com ([135.239.2.111]) with mapi id 14.03.0301.000; Sat, 3 Dec 2016 09:19:17 +0100 From: "Scharf, Michael (Nokia - DE)" To: "draft-ietf-manet-credit-window.all@ietf.org" , "tsv-art@ietf.org" , "tsv-ads@tools.ietf.org" Thread-Topic: TSV-ART review of draft-ietf-manet-credit-window-07 Thread-Index: AdJNPe9OoXrEH44kT0KcLjVcI/TK5A== Date: Sat, 3 Dec 2016 08:19:15 +0000 Message-ID: <655C07320163294895BBADA28372AF5D48BE27E8@FR712WXCHMBA15.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> Accept-Language: de-DE, en-US Content-Language: de-DE X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [135.239.27.41] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "manet@ietf.org" Subject: [manet] TSV-ART review of draft-ietf-manet-credit-window-07 X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 Dec 2016 08:19:26 -0000 Hi, I've reviewed this document as part of TSV-ART's ongoing effort to review k= ey IETF documents. These comments were written primarily for the transport = area directors, but are copied to the document's authors for their informat= ion and to allow them to address any issues raised. When done at the time o= f IETF Last Call, the authors should consider this review together with any= other last-call comments they receive. Please always CC tsv-art@ietf.org i= f you reply to or forward this review. This draft is on the right track but has open issues, described in the revi= ew. TSV-ART review comments: * Page 2: "The capacity of an Ethernet link is normally far superior to tha= t of the wireless medium... " That statement is not generally true, e.g., c= ertain wireless technologies can outperform Fast Ethernet (100 Mbps). This = sentence should probably be rephrased to something like "This document focu= ses on deployments in which the link between a router and a modem has alway= s a higher capacity than the wireless medium". * Page 3 and 4: It is unclear why the flow control MUST be used in both dir= ections between a router and modem. An explanation on this design choice wo= uld make a lot of sense. Specifically, I don't understand why flow control = for the traffic direction from the modem to the router is really needed in = all cases, e.g., if the wireless medium is the bottleneck. * Page 5: "The number of credits needed for a given transmission is the len= gth of the data portion of the packet at the MAC layer." This statement is = vague. Implementers of the protocol in the router and in the modem would ha= ve to exactly agree how to consume credits. So, what is exactly meant by "d= ata portion"? One example how to improve this section would be to explain t= his at the example of Ethernet MTU, as one example for a MAC layer. * Page 7: "Operational credit mismatches can occur due to (data) packets in= transit on the wire, or sequencing of sending and receiving packets". I be= lieve that mismatch can also occur if packets get lost, e.g., because of co= rruption or because of (unexpected) congestion on the link between the rout= er and the modem. That situation may be infrequent but still has to be take= n into account at least as a corner case. Other comments: * It is a bit surprising that the document does not discuss potential chall= enges and downsides of the flow control scheme. For instance, if the RF lin= k capacity rapidly changes, what is the benefit of this flow control? In th= is case, it will be challenging e.g. for a modem to calculate a credit gran= t. If the credit grant is too high, packets may be dropped at the modem, bu= t this would happen without flow control, too. If the credit grant is too l= ow, the capacity may not be fully utilized. Also, if the credits are grante= d at a time scale of the transport protocol congestion control (e.g., TCP),= interactions between the DLEP flow control and the congestion control coul= d occur. Problems can probably be avoided if the credit mechanism operates = at a time scale much below the end-to-end RTT seen by the transport protoco= l. This sort of issues does not necessarily affect the protocol specificati= on itself, though. * Somehow related, the benefits of using the flow control defined in the do= cument could also be better explained. For instance, as long as the bandwid= th on the wireless link is not fluctuating too much, end-to-end congestion = control (e.g., in TCP) should avoid overloading the wireless link. An addit= ional flow control may not necessarily be needed in such case. There may be= benefits in other cases, maybe e.g. for multicast traffic, but all in all = the document does not motivate well why this DLEP protocol extension is rea= lly needed. * Page 3 and later. The references to the IANA registries defined in draft-= ietf-manet-dlep-25 seem not fully consistent. For instance, page 12 states:= 'This specification defines three (3) new entries in the repository entitl= ed "Data Item Type Values for the Dynamic Link Exchange Protocol (DLEP)"'. = It seems that this registry is named "Data Item Values" in draft-ietf-manet= -dlep-25. Nits: * Page 4: "reciver" * Pae 7: "synchrnoization" Thanks Michael From nobody Tue Dec 6 03:27:10 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F935129887 for ; Tue, 6 Dec 2016 03:27:09 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WQFZMpT0vWi0 for ; Tue, 6 Dec 2016 03:27:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qt0-x22f.google.com (mail-qt0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c0d::22f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6ED86129443 for ; Tue, 6 Dec 2016 03:27:07 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qt0-x22f.google.com with SMTP id n6so343372707qtd.1 for ; Tue, 06 Dec 2016 03:27:07 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=6CzTayg8mOVfjaNBTqQyNIiwqUuYRNXFM0nlbJOri0w=; b=Cqv86u/wjCcx4s4xRzJ9AeFaUqwG8XBXc5Aesw/PcDJQwM2ZBy/G8Ew7Ocsk5OS/5w wjKCJko3t1KcQqyRbL+Utad0k9d+Xc3YM8kmtGqFdSjG9ZKQdiw4XP4HIm4CJcSKHZ69 XSxxVRLrLeQ1MhSL0ZCWybk3vXxER+Rz30PWdxn/gVRO6YNmxwRoPYQLg27essaiIkLq X3r89Dm0BmTkfvvrO8QEm9xkfcOQ1MG12e0H5nEMWLbxFpsllZG548Fwg+LQl26oT0By IZay+qReW7SVcap8Yu/YdH9dp8NXa8hXV+NxdKm5NP6fdvkNiwgqolQ4qMEoRttruYk2 lzGw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=6CzTayg8mOVfjaNBTqQyNIiwqUuYRNXFM0nlbJOri0w=; b=OP8kIsYQv37K1lWgYfx/ro9BdNZAEAsPTF5p9Lb2HK4d6HQFw9k++j7w0eB5WTwN72 f0TtAYe66TcUHn5Bqj00e9uJI5DRGId/SYWKc6UBvvnE9zkcnYDv9dgmDhtltnF0b4bW PhJM8QRoK+I1mrem79lGn5zwa7/+M3rggudMXTxdM+Eb+6B427r0991lDVsMzA4TcUum V2GpOqGenCZPr7dvfhlT1RYjodYzAtYyr58qnBHkxOI57zqF3zfPpD7HssRJXMIymKEA Eh9tWUJ6c8eZzDzLQtQqUz0i6bWLQwI2UcUT9cHLp7QV6J1AASdB9JvWtGgVTaY9Jipl wGag== X-Gm-Message-State: AKaTC02XjaIxgeDVst6Rkr+jGh5ivEFoSjZ1Hyx5RQtWNOu4NMf1AiIfGv+FOpCoMCZ1yCPFDTIDRd2oGJ5Srw== X-Received: by 10.200.57.54 with SMTP id s51mr52985075qtb.68.1481023625793; Tue, 06 Dec 2016 03:27:05 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.237.38.161 with HTTP; Tue, 6 Dec 2016 03:26:35 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: From: Henning Rogge Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2016 12:26:35 +0100 Message-ID: To: Stan Ratliff Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: Cc: MANET IETF Subject: Re: [manet] Call for acceptance as Working Group documents X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2016 11:27:09 -0000 On Mon, Nov 28, 2016 at 4:26 PM, Stan Ratliff wrote: > Hello working group participants, > > One of the items identified during the WG meeting in Seoul was to formally > request, via the list, Working Group adoption of 5 extension drafts related > to DLEP. This email is that formal request. > > The drafts are: > 1. > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-cheng-manet-dlep-latency-extension-00.html > 2. https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-cheng-manet-dlep-pause-extension-00 > 3. https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-cheng-manet-dlep-multi-hop-extension-00 > 4. https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-cheng-manet-dlep-latency-extension-00 > 5. https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-cheng-manet-dlep-da-credit-extension-00 All of these drafts contain valid (and important) extensions for DLEP, as long as we keep in mind that we might need to shuffle the ideas around between documents I definitely support adopting them. establishing a concept of "flows" for DLEP would be a good start for a more generic document, which we then could use to describe how to select these flows (e.g. DSCP) and how they are handled by the radio (e.g. prioritization order) and to control the flow for each of them. Henning From nobody Tue Dec 6 09:56:15 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6426512947B for ; Tue, 6 Dec 2016 09:56:14 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.001 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=idirect.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DwVtxF_dmTsY for ; Tue, 6 Dec 2016 09:56:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx0b-00229401.pphosted.com (00229401.pphosted.com [148.163.159.249]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 739C7129400 for ; Tue, 6 Dec 2016 09:56:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from pps.filterd (m0097890.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0b-00229401.pphosted.com (8.16.0.17/8.16.0.17) with SMTP id uB6Hu6MU017657; Tue, 6 Dec 2016 12:56:09 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=idirect.net; h=from : to : cc : subject : date : message-id : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding : mime-version; s=dk1; bh=KARc8o3AVxoThVi3l/9FY6/QsDGoopgB5urNRxeBVzg=; b=RwRSB77GpBxcj6rCmvnvl9LsqxepMBLaVrVK7aRmkiR7HyyUVrlaZCOefHuA1NedzXOO LM0vtmne4iCv9I2eab1n1uUmnxmyjsBRPMPLBD/SUugEtefPRy6KDFfhHYSZy5h4l+lZ p1bQCV65NtTXXp5k8zIAUmZJlNs9K3NdXYXtkPayd4ikgHk5BcLon4DruUh+FN8Datm9 rZ1g/z+EmDXu6MJVkbon8A3wu6QOlu5N1jGQep/cf+8VabcBD5yzX1moMWjfPhSe1sXa 3Bi0B/6p38i6ltMoO7gdOZn1QpAWbHnQiGTlY4Zsv0HJtgcw1NTz0LFBbpDZOj3BCiIO Bg== Received: from webmail.idirect.net ([198.180.159.2]) by mx0b-00229401.pphosted.com with ESMTP id 273u8haemw-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Tue, 06 Dec 2016 12:56:09 -0500 Received: from VAUSDITCHM2.idirect.net (10.250.250.202) by VAUSDITCHM1.idirect.net (10.250.250.201) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1236.3; Tue, 6 Dec 2016 12:56:08 -0500 Received: from VAUSDITCHM2.idirect.net ([fe80::b5b6:9e50:3403:e75d]) by VAUSDITCHM2.idirect.net ([fe80::b5b6:9e50:3403:e75d%15]) with mapi id 15.00.1236.000; Tue, 6 Dec 2016 12:56:08 -0500 From: "Ratliff, Stanley" To: Henning Rogge , Stan Ratliff Thread-Topic: [manet] Call for acceptance as Working Group documents Thread-Index: AQHSSYvOMRONXpStV0Gm/SWjUwqUNaD7J+6AgAAYNrA= Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2016 17:56:07 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.250.250.20] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:, , definitions=2016-12-06_09:, , signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outboundspam_notspam policy=outboundspam score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1011 lowpriorityscore=0 impostorscore=0 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1609300000 definitions=main-1612060270 Archived-At: Cc: MANET IETF Subject: Re: [manet] Call for acceptance as Working Group documents X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2016 17:56:14 -0000 Henning,=20 Interesting. You're the second person I've heard lately that mentioned the = notion of DLEP flows. So, what do you envision a DLEP flow to look like? I'll be honest - this so= unds like a lot of complexity, and I'm not entirely sure what it buys us. C= an you enlighten me?=20 Regards, Stan > -----Original Message----- > From: manet [mailto:manet-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Henning Rogge > Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 6:27 AM > To: Stan Ratliff > Cc: MANET IETF > Subject: Re: [manet] Call for acceptance as Working Group documents >=20 > On Mon, Nov 28, 2016 at 4:26 PM, Stan Ratliff > wrote: > > Hello working group participants, > > > > One of the items identified during the WG meeting in Seoul was to > > formally request, via the list, Working Group adoption of 5 extension > > drafts related to DLEP. This email is that formal request. > > > > The drafts are: > > 1. > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__tools.ietf.org_ht > > ml_draft-2Dcheng-2Dmanet-2Ddlep-2Dlatency-2Dextension- > 2D00.html&d=3DDgIC > > Ag&c=3DLlUvidvlhStGUSxQl0giOA&r=3DQzgCKlK- > eUsbLW5r8KZAL9L_yqNON1dbKtMa-Wbx > > na8&m=3DBCoPI7uYl2VWWZLOiT2_hvChwZeOzOv5lfyrfADyR_8&s=3D0WQ- > snJj88VGKf7xJj > > 3iHvybVGepqcFgS1dnP_67erE&e=3D 2. > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__tools.ietf.org_ht > > ml_draft-2Dcheng-2Dmanet-2Ddlep-2Dpause-2Dextension- > 2D00&d=3DDgICAg&c=3DLl > > UvidvlhStGUSxQl0giOA&r=3DQzgCKlK-eUsbLW5r8KZAL9L_yqNON1dbKtMa- > Wbxna8&m=3DB > > > CoPI7uYl2VWWZLOiT2_hvChwZeOzOv5lfyrfADyR_8&s=3DCy0zgSTLb9cojir1_ars > JUAqn > > lWqY3yr2_cJGplaSfA&e=3D 3. > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__tools.ietf.org_ht > > ml_draft-2Dcheng-2Dmanet-2Ddlep-2Dmulti-2Dhop-2Dextension- > 2D00&d=3DDgICA > > g&c=3DLlUvidvlhStGUSxQl0giOA&r=3DQzgCKlK- > eUsbLW5r8KZAL9L_yqNON1dbKtMa-Wbxn > > > a8&m=3DBCoPI7uYl2VWWZLOiT2_hvChwZeOzOv5lfyrfADyR_8&s=3DiPynr3nKX2q > hgYAEdfd > > oEJAblVkiRDiQCgQ1oS8BtbQ&e=3D 4. > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__tools.ietf.org_ht > > ml_draft-2Dcheng-2Dmanet-2Ddlep-2Dlatency-2Dextension- > 2D00&d=3DDgICAg&c=3D > > LlUvidvlhStGUSxQl0giOA&r=3DQzgCKlK-eUsbLW5r8KZAL9L_yqNON1dbKtMa- > Wbxna8&m > > > =3DBCoPI7uYl2VWWZLOiT2_hvChwZeOzOv5lfyrfADyR_8&s=3D3Zl09TGLH5nuj_vy > h8ih-GL > > BQzufwZxd6g-2DK1JHm4&e=3D 5. > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__tools.ietf.org_ht > > ml_draft-2Dcheng-2Dmanet-2Ddlep-2Dda-2Dcredit-2Dextension- > 2D00&d=3DDgICA > > g&c=3DLlUvidvlhStGUSxQl0giOA&r=3DQzgCKlK- > eUsbLW5r8KZAL9L_yqNON1dbKtMa-Wbxn > > > a8&m=3DBCoPI7uYl2VWWZLOiT2_hvChwZeOzOv5lfyrfADyR_8&s=3DXN5_qWwK2 > x8PWHRRT8y > > xW9Dv6hITxVGv4xxGBQ4o9JY&e=3D >=20 > All of these drafts contain valid (and important) extensions for DLEP, as= long > as we keep in mind that we might need to shuffle the ideas around between > documents I definitely support adopting them. >=20 > establishing a concept of "flows" for DLEP would be a good start for a mo= re > generic document, which we then could use to describe how to select these > flows (e.g. DSCP) and how they are handled by the radio (e.g. prioritizat= ion > order) and to control the flow for each of them. >=20 > Henning >=20 > _______________________________________________ > manet mailing list > manet@ietf.org > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps- > 3A__www.ietf.org_mailman_listinfo_manet&d=3DDgICAg&c=3DLlUvidvlhStGUSx > Ql0giOA&r=3DQzgCKlK-eUsbLW5r8KZAL9L_yqNON1dbKtMa- > Wbxna8&m=3DBCoPI7uYl2VWWZLOiT2_hvChwZeOzOv5lfyrfADyR_8&s=3DADneD > atu54Qas369e3xZr1qA4a6zsMVEVzReVdEUjYo&e=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D This electronic message and any files transmitted with it contains information from iDirect, which may be privileged, proprietary and/or confidential. 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LjBwdCI+PG86cD4mbmJzcDs8L286cD48L3NwYW4+PC9wPg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8L2JvZHk+DQo8L2h0 bWw+DQo= --_000_A09CAE07764C44A19CFB4B52EBE36155ciscocom_-- From nobody Tue Dec 6 11:20:54 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: manet@ietf.org Delivered-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A87A7129BB3; Tue, 6 Dec 2016 11:20:47 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: The IESG To: "IETF-Announce" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.39.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Sender: Message-ID: <148105204764.1882.16191100712020192729.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2016 11:20:47 -0800 Archived-At: Cc: manet@ietf.org, draft-ietf-manet-olsrv2-sec-threats@ietf.org, manet-chairs@ietf.org Subject: [manet] Last Call: (Security Threats for the Optimized Link State Routing Protocol version 2 (OLSRv2)) to Informational RFC X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Reply-To: ietf@ietf.org List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2016 19:20:47 -0000 The IESG has received a request from the Mobile Ad-hoc Networks WG (manet) to consider the following document: - 'Security Threats for the Optimized Link State Routing Protocol version 2 (OLSRv2)' as Informational RFC The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits final comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2016-12-20. Exceptionally, comments may be sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting. Abstract This document analyzes common security threats of the Optimized Link State Routing Protocol version 2 (OLSRv2) and describes their potential impacts on Mobile Ad Hoc Network (MANET) operations. It then analyzes which of these security vulnerabilities can be mitigated when using the mandatory-to-implement security mechanisms for OLSRv2, and how the vulnerabilities are mitigated. The file can be obtained via https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-manet-olsrv2-sec-threats/ IESG discussion can be tracked via https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-manet-olsrv2-sec-threats/ballot/ No IPR declarations have been submitted directly on this I-D. From nobody Tue Dec 6 13:31:28 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15070129CA9; Tue, 6 Dec 2016 13:31:27 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gDs28vBUzszn; Tue, 6 Dec 2016 13:31:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from sender163-mail.zoho.com (sender163-mail.zoho.com [74.201.84.163]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9E96D12957C; Tue, 6 Dec 2016 13:31:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.101] (95.248.86.88.rdns.comcable.net [88.86.248.95]) by mx.zohomail.com with SMTPS id 1481059867641597.3643553381429; Tue, 6 Dec 2016 13:31:07 -0800 (PST) From: Jiazi Yi Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_DE9665C7-61E5-42D2-BD01-F526AE4A9E09" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.1 \(3251\)) Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2016 22:31:03 +0100 In-Reply-To: To: "Alvaro Retana (aretana)" References: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3251) Archived-At: Cc: "manet@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-manet-olsrv2-sec-threats@ietf.org" , "manet-chairs@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [manet] AD Review of draft-ietf-manet-olsrv2-sec-threats-03 X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2016 21:31:27 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_DE9665C7-61E5-42D2-BD01-F526AE4A9E09 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Dear Alvaro: Thanks very much for the review.=20 We will update the draft based on the comments from you and the coming = IETF LC.=20 regards Jiazi > On 6 Dec 2016, at 20:13, Alvaro Retana (aretana) = wrote: >=20 > Dear authors: > =20 > I just finished reading this document. I have some minor comments = (mostly nits) below; please consider them along with any other Last Call = comments you might get. > =20 > I am starting the IETF Last Call and will schedule this document in = the next available IESG Telechat. > =20 > Thanks! > =20 > Alvaro. > =20 > =20 > C1. Do we really need all the references in the Introduction to = describe OSLRv2? I think that a reference to RFC7181 is enough. Trying = to be exhaustive has the risk of missing other potential references; for = example, RFC7466 Updates RFC7181, but it isn=E2=80=99t mentioned = anywhere. I=E2=80=99m not suggesting that you add a reference to = RFC7466, but that you only use RFC7181 when describing OLSRv2 (in this = part of the Introduction). > =20 > C2. s/RFC6779/RFC7939 > =20 > C3. s/the the/the > =20 > C4. s/TCs to not being delivered/TCs not being delivered > =20 > C5. Section 3.1: "=E2=80=A6and the legitimate message will be = discarded as a duplicate message." I think that a little more = qualification may be needed here: the phrase above seems to assume = spoofing of the ID or a topology as shown in Figure 1 -- please clarify = and/or point at Figure 1. > =20 > C6. s/when a receives a TC from F/when A receives a TC from F > =20 > C7. s/E will have a choice=E2=80=A6as illustrated in Figure 9(b)./E = will have a choice=E2=80=A6as illustrated in Figure 9(c). > =20 > C8. s/presented in Section 5.2.1/presented in Section 5.1 > =20 > C9. The Security Considerations Section basically says nothing. It = would be nice to say in it that this whole document is about security = considerations =E2=80=93 and maybe include a summary (couple of = sentences). FWIW, what stuck with me is that most of the threats can be = mitigated, but many depend on RFC7183, which is not effective if the = compromised router is one with valid credentials =E2=80=93 this fact was = mentioned, but brushed over fairly quickly. > =20 > _______________________________________________ > manet mailing list > manet@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet = --Apple-Mail=_DE9665C7-61E5-42D2-BD01-F526AE4A9E09 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Dear Alvaro:

Thanks very much for the = review. 
We will update the draft based on the = comments from you and the coming IETF LC. 

regards

Jiazi

On = 6 Dec 2016, at 20:13, Alvaro Retana (aretana) <aretana@cisco.com> = wrote:

Dear authors:
 
I just finished reading this = document.  I have some minor comments (mostly nits) below; please = consider them along with any other Last Call comments you might get.
 
I am starting the IETF Last Call = and will schedule this document in the next available IESG Telechat.
 
Thanks!
 
Alvaro.
 
 
C1. Do we really need all the = references in the Introduction to describe OSLRv2?  I think that a = reference to RFC7181 is enough.  Trying to be exhaustive has the = risk of missing other potential references; for example, RFC7466 Updates = RFC7181, but it isn=E2=80=99t mentioned anywhere.  I=E2=80=99m not = suggesting that you add a reference to RFC7466, but that you only use = RFC7181 when describing OLSRv2 (in this part of the Introduction).
 
C2. = s/RFC6779/RFC7939
 
C3. = s/the the/the
 
C4. = s/TCs to not being delivered/TCs not being delivered
 
C5. = Section 3.1: "=E2=80=A6and the legitimate message will be discarded as a = duplicate message."  I think that a little more qualification may = be needed here: the phrase above seems to assume spoofing of the ID or a = topology as shown in Figure 1 -- please clarify and/or point at Figure = 1.
 
C6. = s/when a receives a TC from F/when A receives a TC from F
 
C7. = s/E will have a choice=E2=80=A6as = illustrated in Figure 9(b)./E will have a choice=E2=80=A6as illustrated = in Figure 9(c).
 
C8. s/presented in Section 5.2.1/presented in Section 5.1
 
C9. The = Security Considerations Section basically says nothing.  It would = be nice to say in it that this whole document is about security = considerations =E2=80=93 and maybe include a summary (couple of = sentences).  FWIW, what stuck with me is that most of the threats = can be mitigated, but many depend on RFC7183, which is not effective if = the compromised router is one with valid credentials =E2=80=93 this fact = was mentioned, but brushed over fairly quickly.
 
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= --Apple-Mail=_DE9665C7-61E5-42D2-BD01-F526AE4A9E09-- From nobody Fri Dec 9 06:58:09 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: manet@ietf.org Delivered-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A520129460; Fri, 9 Dec 2016 06:58:08 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.39.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <148129548810.4690.17208246830467685289.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2016 06:58:08 -0800 Archived-At: Cc: manet@ietf.org Subject: [manet] I-D Action: draft-ietf-manet-dlep-26.txt X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2016 14:58:08 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Mobile Ad-hoc Networks of the IETF. Title : Dynamic Link Exchange Protocol (DLEP) Authors : Stan Ratliff Shawn Jury Darryl Satterwhite Rick Taylor Bo Berry Filename : draft-ietf-manet-dlep-26.txt Pages : 75 Date : 2016-12-09 Abstract: When routing devices rely on modems to effect communications over wireless links, they need timely and accurate knowledge of the characteristics of the link (speed, state, etc.) in order to make routing decisions. In mobile or other environments where these characteristics change frequently, manual configurations or the inference of state through routing or transport protocols does not allow the router to make the best decisions. A bidirectional, event- driven communication channel between the router and the modem is necessary. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-manet-dlep/ There's also a htmlized version available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-manet-dlep-26 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-manet-dlep-26 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Fri Dec 9 07:10:43 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A6A4129686 for ; Fri, 9 Dec 2016 07:10:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pNKZp73M4u53 for ; Fri, 9 Dec 2016 07:10:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qk0-x22a.google.com (mail-qk0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c09::22a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A38C01294B1 for ; Fri, 9 Dec 2016 07:10:39 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qk0-x22a.google.com with SMTP id n204so20001710qke.2 for ; Fri, 09 Dec 2016 07:10:39 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=SRf7X0VOkPFIMm72Pvp33Zg/SseaceHOMOESVw9Ijhk=; b=on84K/aeLvNC4VGw+EBwix3qXz1lRoUpdjhWDIqLR25q1SBgKBdtnEQFS8ybv7myd+ p/gyQ6YK09U2W03IaBULBXTHSEjlHa52ZKicQrKj8rmSRn9K/8vIndiGnjlfjcJF3N56 cE6XxRMCD1Yq7uHFjw3CRqGuV+0iR6ozVuUEdHWMV8+d6DfjjH2H1nUeUbGxTWScPJ8d VFDAfL9BoJwYyKrMhvy2iElWb/j0eB5rrQiM5U6SmWdpPGQpZO/Q37F0xYpapeUK5y1Y Gt/0X3qL5l0RTXKre/uKpAGm7Wfj/orUH8vQ8WrAwb67LZfODjs1aIrEnYXUUawWCsc/ +dUg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=SRf7X0VOkPFIMm72Pvp33Zg/SseaceHOMOESVw9Ijhk=; b=AZM5kkn6UT4O1IVWwzQ+Sd1XU60+hPgzvEMQNcPJdds4F0ymQO1hzD33vf1uhGmPO8 kfXYaFghzHBJOp9v0usI/uPuQfX4JIMJsBijc9ACvp0ndmLfIS83y4X2d2mioCT8Z54n 1bLWRWPeKMZfajvY/PFCPbDGiT9yMRW3VpoJGPqdfkrLtmU26JrEo/uaBgfW+Cdfqh1C qKCMnA6Pepcb9uVm2PCVP9J8Up1LcAA4Gl1/yOKsIh1Mflo49GIo+GThC/7aZGBDCzv8 rxvb9S4SXj+kIHNbiL8D/Wyp/QfonjQC1CwQI8VkdG8Da6eVVpbpuXEDQ2ZYh/+r2yFo QyDQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AKaTC02rtAVL0O989vGAgKCnSVwa3akXS7E9ARaudwoY/WnfrLFuPb5NEVsOqBcN4V+TDk4VwsA1kqmRiCbt9A== X-Received: by 10.55.214.83 with SMTP id t80mr5447081qki.305.1481296238636; Fri, 09 Dec 2016 07:10:38 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.237.38.161 with HTTP; Fri, 9 Dec 2016 07:10:08 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: From: Henning Rogge Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2016 16:10:08 +0100 Message-ID: To: "Ratliff, Stanley" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: Cc: MANET IETF Subject: Re: [manet] Call for acceptance as Working Group documents X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2016 15:10:42 -0000 On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 6:56 PM, Ratliff, Stanley wrote: > Henning, > > Interesting. You're the second person I've heard lately that mentioned the notion of DLEP flows. > > So, what do you envision a DLEP flow to look like? I'll be honest - this sounds like a lot of complexity, and I'm not entirely sure what it buys us. Can you enlighten me? Anything that provide different DLEP data (or even different flow control) not based on the destination MAC address. Easiest example is DSCP-based priority classes... but maybe also things like a special "voice slot" in a TDMA waveform... or reservation based mechanisms in TDMA. Henning From nobody Mon Dec 12 09:22:35 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: manet@ietf.org Delivered-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D48E1129D1A; Mon, 12 Dec 2016 09:22:29 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Alexey Melnikov" To: "The IESG" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.39.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <148156334986.22491.1152871712874859894.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2016 09:22:29 -0800 Archived-At: Cc: manet@ietf.org, draft-ietf-manet-dlep@ietf.org, manet-chairs@ietf.org Subject: [manet] Alexey Melnikov's Discuss on draft-ietf-manet-dlep-26: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2016 17:22:30 -0000 Alexey Melnikov has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-manet-dlep-26: Discuss When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-manet-dlep/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- DISCUSS: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This is generally a well written document and I enjoyed reading it. I have a small set of questions which I would like to discuss before recommending approval of this document: 1) In 10.4. Peer Offer Signal A Peer Offer Signal MUST be sent by a DLEP modem in response to a properly formatted and addressed Peer Discovery Signal (Section 10.3). A Peer Offer Signal MUST be encoded within a UDP packet. The IP destination MUST be set to the IP address and port number received in the corresponding Peer Discovery Signal. The source IP address MUST be set to the modem's IP address associated with the DLEP interface. The source port number MUST be set to the DLEP well-known port number. The port number can be omitted to signal that the well-known port number is to be used (as per 11.2 and 11.3). It looks like requiring that the source port is always a well-known port is an error here. 2) In 10.17: If metrics are supplied with the Message (e.g., Resources), these metrics are MUST be applied to all destinations identified in the Message. Nit: extra "are" before "MUST". Question: how can multiple destinations be specified? Note that this may overwrite metrics provided in a previously received Session or Destination Up Messages. 3) 12. Security Considerations At the transport layer, implementations of DLEP SHOULD implement, and use, TLS [RFC5246] to protect the TCP session. Deployments that are protected by strong physical security (e.g., deployments where the DLEP router and modem are the only devices on a physical Layer 2 segment) may consider use of DLEP without TLS. When TLS is in use, each peer SHOULD check the validity of credentials presented by the other peer during TLS session extablishment. Refer to [RFC7525] for additional details. How can credentials presented by the other peer can be validated? RFC 7525 is referencing RFC 6125, which talks about hostname validation, which is something which might not apply to DLEP deployments? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- In Section 6, last para: DLEP transactions do not time out and are not cancellable. What exactly does this mean? Does this mean that a router (or modem) can terminate a session, then reconnect later on and continue the transaction? Or did you mean something else? An implementation can detect if its peer has failed in some way by use of the session heartbeat mechanism during the In-Session state, see Section 5.3. In 10.2, 2nd para: A DLEP participant receiving any Message apart from Session Termination Message (Section 10.9) containing a Status Data Item with a status code value with failure mode 'Terminate' MUST immediately issue a Session Termination Message containing an identical Status Data Item, and then transition to the Session Termination state. I had to reread this multiple times, but I still want to double check whether I understood this correctly: are you saying that the Session Termination Message echoes back the Status Data Item that caused the session to terminate? If yes, you might want to reword this in order to make this clear. If no, you should definitely reword this ;-). 10.9. Session Termination Message A Session Termination Message MUST be sent by a DLEP participant when the DLEP session needs to be terminated. This probably means "MUST attempted to be sent", because the TCP connection might already be dead. 11. DLEP Data Items Following is the list of core Data Items that MUST be recognized by a DLEP compliant implementation. As mentioned before, not all Data Items need be used during a session, but an implementation MUST correctly process these Data Items when correctly associated with a Signal or Message. Is "skip over or ignore" a valid way to "correctly process"? I think so, but this might not be obvious from the text as written. In 11.1: Text: UTF-8 encoded string of UNICODE [RFC3629] characters, describing the cause, used for implementation defined purposes. Since this field is used for description, implementations SHOULD limit characters in this field to printable characters. Implementations receiving this Data Item SHOULD check for printable characters in the field. Checking for printable Unicode characters might require keeping an up-to-date table of which Unicode characters are valid and are printable. This seems like a rather high bar to implement, I suspect implementations wouldn't bother. I suggest either deleting the last sentence or downgrading it to MAY. 11.4. Peer Type Peer Type: UTF-8 encoded string of UNICODE [RFC3629] characters. For example, a satellite modem might set this variable to "Satellite terminal". Since this Data Item is intended to provide additional information for display commands, sending implementations SHOULD limit the data to printable characters, and receiving implementations SHOULD check the data for printable characters. As above. From nobody Mon Dec 12 18:24:31 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EA3812985B; Mon, 12 Dec 2016 18:24:21 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RUN7ktl2OuQm; Mon, 12 Dec 2016 18:24:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-io0-x22f.google.com (mail-io0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c06::22f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3171F129857; Mon, 12 Dec 2016 18:24:18 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-io0-x22f.google.com with SMTP id 136so30365274iou.3; Mon, 12 Dec 2016 18:24:18 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=uabz+9pRbwzTf7w/Zqmdy181WRv636sv3rX/JIIWSwY=; b=CkUDmSzerwSybYhte074rgMxiuSttToHXnfCFaMgxGrL8roMeE0q3lWQnqpjKIkUod 93KFNpcOxOPH/61KV342o55VTa+xJfNnWjFVzKA6pNxbdQAMK6sLZHgJGMlpYQXc6xrd hAOIff/CNBdpDyUCr/+OZ2qoD5lFD7SjoZCYeA0AQWTpYqO55mIYN/K6Qc3BbJUmTpyv +N+ATR2MFWxTsttRmRV7k4602kV+tDVOx/PAW77RZWGsXab5SyT83DFezfRcttdfjvAe ItLuKDV4CXN/VAFogyA/dez56X3cVrYmazFLfl5Bysi37K0sg8Ud0FN/hZDw6jMQaiFf WWnw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=uabz+9pRbwzTf7w/Zqmdy181WRv636sv3rX/JIIWSwY=; b=Xg7AstqNNFJ77YnPcCxftremWfGGDSR0QAJRfxUyeQrwgt/DjNwPRyCHnx1SUat8Sn h6CRbATqP5SfFrfQhryvPrHtEn442hT3LZTox71fhHmhQAeVb6tkhVInGbY73Gop4hgf 1f+l/7Cuv6NBqbgls73xFKqpwZwzLlH0zMwhcTD9NHLoVy+AfCzr2sayFRjhYRwHzWHo ylHtiVhTYyBBMVbZl5wud9LUG8M2y/5oCgnznpPJVNBhVXbXH8xoJAv76fMC9BwLhx1w r81hfgIn/+7+YoMVMSWB9LI1a1AgcLQstv8NoQW1SXINFy6Ehp8qMXxPWw1jj4oLQlH2 3x9w== X-Gm-Message-State: AKaTC00jDL2sFPyitoh4n4Oz/VlBSiqGnbJUw5gzlYEne4Am0qRXCzVLi3sV4Yvqz/qALGJ7e6tBeT8qdNHKrg== X-Received: by 10.36.125.207 with SMTP id b198mr568182itc.88.1481595857396; Mon, 12 Dec 2016 18:24:17 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.79.90.4 with HTTP; Mon, 12 Dec 2016 18:24:16 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <148156334986.22491.1152871712874859894.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> References: <148156334986.22491.1152871712874859894.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Stan Ratliff Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2016 21:24:16 -0500 Message-ID: To: Alexey Melnikov Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a114442d8c7ea84054380eab6 Archived-At: Cc: MANET IETF , The IESG , draft-ietf-manet-dlep@ietf.org, manet-chairs@ietf.org Subject: Re: [manet] Alexey Melnikov's Discuss on draft-ietf-manet-dlep-26: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2016 02:24:21 -0000 --001a114442d8c7ea84054380eab6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Alexey, Responses inline. On Mon, Dec 12, 2016 at 12:22 PM, Alexey Melnikov wrote: > Alexey Melnikov has entered the following ballot position for > draft-ietf-manet-dlep-26: Discuss > > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this > introductory paragraph, however.) > > > Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html > for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. > > > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-manet-dlep/ > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > DISCUSS: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > This is generally a well written document and I enjoyed reading it. > > I have a small set of questions which I would like to discuss before > recommending approval of this document: > > 1) In 10.4. Peer Offer Signal > > A Peer Offer Signal MUST be sent by a DLEP modem in response to a > properly formatted and addressed Peer Discovery Signal > (Section 10.3). > > A Peer Offer Signal MUST be encoded within a UDP packet. The IP > destination MUST be set to the IP address and port number received in > the corresponding Peer Discovery Signal. The source IP address MUST > be set to the modem's IP address associated with the DLEP interface. > The source port number MUST be set to the DLEP well-known port > number. > > The port number can be omitted to signal that the well-known port number > is to > be used (as per 11.2 and 11.3). It looks like requiring that the source > port is always a well-known > port is an error here. > Yes, that is an error. We will correct that. > > 2) In 10.17: > > If metrics are supplied with the Message (e.g., Resources), these > metrics are MUST be applied to all destinations identified in the > Message. > > Nit: extra "are" before "MUST". > Question: how can multiple destinations be specified? > The sentence "If metrics are supplied with the Message (e.g., Resources)..." should be deleted from the text. There is no way to specify multiple destinations with the 'Destination Update' message - that text would apply to the 'Peer Update' message, where (for example) a modem is updating a metric on what the document calls a "modem-wide" basis. > > Note that this may overwrite metrics provided in a > previously received Session or Destination Up Messages. > > 3) 12. Security Considerations > > At the transport layer, implementations of DLEP SHOULD implement, and > use, TLS [RFC5246] to protect the TCP session. Deployments that are > protected by strong physical security (e.g., deployments where the > DLEP router and modem are the only devices on a physical Layer 2 > segment) may consider use of DLEP without TLS. When TLS is in use, > each peer SHOULD check the validity of credentials presented by the > other peer during TLS session extablishment. Refer to [RFC7525] for > additional details. > > How can credentials presented by the other peer can be validated? > RFC 7525 is referencing RFC 6125, which talks about hostname validation, > which is something which might not apply to DLEP deployments? > In terms of exactly how an implementation would validate credentials, we have no guidance. You correctly note that techniques like hostname validation might not apply to mobile ad-hoc (DLEP) deployments. Indeed, the whole issue of credentials, and how to process them, is an interesting challenge in MANET environments. > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > COMMENT: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > In Section 6, last para: > > DLEP transactions do not time out and are not cancellable. > > What exactly does this mean? Does this mean that a router (or modem) can > terminate > a session, then reconnect later on and continue the transaction? Or did > you mean > something else? > No, our intent was to say that a transaction cannot timeout within the context of a TCP session. If the session is terminated, then the DLEP state machine should be reset (which includes knowledge of transactions in-flight). > > An > implementation can detect if its peer has failed in some way by use > of the session heartbeat mechanism during the In-Session state, see > Section 5.3. > > In 10.2, 2nd para: > > A DLEP participant receiving any Message apart from Session > Termination Message (Section 10.9) containing a Status Data Item with > a status code value with failure mode 'Terminate' MUST immediately > issue a Session Termination Message containing an identical Status > Data Item, and then transition to the Session Termination state. > > I had to reread this multiple times, but I still want to double check > whether I understood > this correctly: are you saying that the Session Termination Message > echoes > back the Status Data Item that caused the session to terminate? > If yes, you might want to reword this in order to make this clear. If no, > you should > definitely reword this ;-). > Fair point. You understood correctly - the intent is for the Session Termination Message to echo the Status Item that causes the session to terminate. We will re-word. > > 10.9. Session Termination Message > > A Session Termination Message MUST be sent by a DLEP participant when > the DLEP session needs to be terminated. > > This probably means "MUST attempted to be sent", because the TCP > connection might > already be dead. > Yes. We will re-word this. > > 11. DLEP Data Items > > Following is the list of core Data Items that MUST be recognized by a > DLEP compliant implementation. As mentioned before, not all Data > Items need be used during a session, but an implementation MUST > correctly process these Data Items when correctly associated with a > Signal or Message. > > Is "skip over or ignore" a valid way to "correctly process"? I think so, > but > this might not be obvious from the text as written. > Yes, "silently ignoring" a data item would be, potentially, a way to "correctly process". DLEP specifies a list of Data Items that can be passed between a modem and a router. However, we purposefully don't specify exactly how each of those Data Items would (or should, or even could) be used - the WG consensus was that level of specification would amount to "boiling the ocean". For example, if a modem sends a "Latency" data item to a router, and the receiving router doesn't understand (or need, or even care) about Latency, then the router shouldn't see that as an error. > > In 11.1: > > Text: UTF-8 encoded string of UNICODE [RFC3629] characters, > describing the cause, used for implementation defined purposes. > Since this field is used for description, implementations SHOULD > limit characters in this field to printable characters. > Implementations receiving this Data Item SHOULD check for > printable characters in the field. > > Checking for printable Unicode characters might require keeping an > up-to-date > table of which Unicode characters are valid and are printable. > This seems like a rather high bar to implement, I suspect > implementations > wouldn't bother. I suggest either deleting the last sentence or > downgrading > it to MAY. > Again, a fair point. We will re-word. Regards, Stan > > 11.4. Peer Type > > Peer Type: UTF-8 encoded string of UNICODE [RFC3629] characters. > For example, a satellite modem might set this variable to > "Satellite terminal". Since this Data Item is intended to provide > additional information for display commands, sending > implementations SHOULD limit the data to printable characters, and > receiving implementations SHOULD check the data for printable > characters. > > As above. > > > _______________________________________________ > manet mailing list > manet@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet > --001a114442d8c7ea84054380eab6 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Alexey,=C2=A0

Responses inline.

On Mon, Dec 12, 2016 = at 12:22 PM, Alexey Melnikov <aamelnikov@fastmail.fm> w= rote:
Alexey Melnikov has entered the following ballot = position for
draft-ietf-manet-dlep-26: Discuss

When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all
email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this
introductory paragraph, however.)


Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/<= wbr>statement/discuss-criteria.html
for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.


The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-i= etf-manet-dlep/



-----------------------------------------------------------------= -----
DISCUSS:
-----------------------------------------------------------------= -----

This is generally a well written document and I enjoyed reading it.

I have a small set of questions which I would like to discuss before
recommending approval of this document:

1) In 10.4.=C2=A0 Peer Offer Signal

=C2=A0 =C2=A0A Peer Offer Signal MUST be sent by a DLEP modem in response t= o a
=C2=A0 =C2=A0properly formatted and addressed Peer Discovery Signal
=C2=A0 =C2=A0(Section 10.3).

=C2=A0 =C2=A0A Peer Offer Signal MUST be encoded within a UDP packet.=C2=A0= The IP
=C2=A0 =C2=A0destination MUST be set to the IP address and port number rece= ived in
=C2=A0 =C2=A0the corresponding Peer Discovery Signal.=C2=A0 The source IP a= ddress MUST
=C2=A0 =C2=A0be set to the modem's IP address associated with the DLEP = interface.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0The source port number MUST be set to the DLEP well-known port=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0number.

The port number can be omitted to signal that the well-known port number is to
be used (as per 11.2 and 11.3). It looks like requiring that the source
port is always a well-known
port is an error here.

Yes, that is an = error. We will correct that.=C2=A0
=C2=A0

2) In 10.17:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0If metrics are supplied with the Message (e.g., Resources), th= ese
=C2=A0 =C2=A0metrics are MUST be applied to all destinations identified in = the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Message.

Nit: extra "are" before "MUST".

Question: how can multiple destinations be specified?
=
The sentence "If metrics are supplied with the Message = (e.g., Resources)..." should be deleted from the text. There is no way= to specify multiple destinations with the 'Destination Update' mes= sage - that text would apply to the 'Peer Update' message, where (f= or example) a modem is updating a metric on what the document calls a "= ;modem-wide" basis.=C2=A0
=C2=A0

=C2=A0 =C2=A0Note that this may overwrite metrics provided in a
=C2=A0 =C2=A0previously received Session or Destination Up Messages.

3) 12.=C2=A0 Security Considerations

=C2=A0 =C2=A0At the transport layer, implementations of DLEP SHOULD impleme= nt, and
=C2=A0 =C2=A0use, TLS [RFC5246] to protect the TCP session.=C2=A0 Deploymen= ts that are
=C2=A0 =C2=A0protected by strong physical security (e.g., deployments where= the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0DLEP router and modem are the only devices on a physical Layer= 2
=C2=A0 =C2=A0segment) may consider use of DLEP without TLS.=C2=A0 When TLS = is in use,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0each peer SHOULD check the validity of credentials presented b= y the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0other peer during TLS session extablishment.=C2=A0 Refer to [R= FC7525] for
=C2=A0 =C2=A0additional details.

How can credentials presented by the other peer can be validated?
RFC 7525 is referencing RFC 6125, which talks about hostname validation, which is something which might not apply to DLEP deployments?

In terms of exactly how an implementation would vali= date credentials, we have no guidance. You correctly note that techniques l= ike hostname validation might not apply to mobile ad-hoc (DLEP) deployments= . Indeed, the whole issue of credentials, and how to process them, is an in= teresting challenge in MANET environments.=C2=A0
=C2=A0


-----------------------------------------------------------------= -----
COMMENT:
-----------------------------------------------------------------= -----

In Section 6, last para:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0DLEP transactions do not time out and are not cancellable.

What exactly does this mean? Does this mean that a router (or modem) can terminate
a session, then reconnect later on and continue the transaction? Or did
you mean
something else?

No, our intent was to s= ay that a transaction cannot timeout within the context of a TCP session. I= f the session is terminated, then the DLEP state machine should be reset (w= hich includes knowledge of transactions in-flight).=C2=A0
=C2=A0<= /div>

=C2=A0 =C2=A0An
=C2=A0 =C2=A0implementation can detect if its peer has failed in some way b= y use
=C2=A0 =C2=A0of the session heartbeat mechanism during the In-Session state= , see
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Section 5.3.

In 10.2, 2nd para:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0A DLEP participant receiving any Message apart from Session =C2=A0 =C2=A0Termination Message (Section 10.9) containing a Status Data It= em with
=C2=A0 =C2=A0a status code value with failure mode 'Terminate' MUST= immediately
=C2=A0 =C2=A0issue a Session Termination Message containing an identical St= atus
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Data Item, and then transition to the Session Termination stat= e.

I had to reread this multiple times, but I still want to double check
whether I understood
this correctly: are you saying that the Session Termination Message
echoes
back the Status Data Item that caused the session to terminate?
If yes, you might want to reword this in order to make this clear. If no, you should
definitely reword this ;-).

Fair point.= You understood correctly - the intent is for the Session Termination Messa= ge to echo the Status Item that causes the session to terminate. We will re= -word.=C2=A0
=C2=A0

10.9.=C2=A0 Session Termination Message

=C2=A0 =C2=A0A Session Termination Message MUST be sent by a DLEP participa= nt when
=C2=A0 =C2=A0the DLEP session needs to be terminated.

This probably means "MUST attempted to be sent", because the TCP<= br> connection might
already be dead.

Yes. We will re-word t= his.=C2=A0
=C2=A0

11.=C2=A0 DLEP Data Items

=C2=A0 =C2=A0Following is the list of core Data Items that MUST be recogniz= ed by a
=C2=A0 =C2=A0DLEP compliant implementation.=C2=A0 As mentioned before, not = all Data
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Items need be used during a session, but an implementation MUS= T
=C2=A0 =C2=A0correctly process these Data Items when correctly associated w= ith a
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Signal or Message.

Is "skip over or ignore" a valid way to "correctly process&q= uot;? I think so,
but
this might not be obvious from the text as written.
Yes, "silently ignoring" a data item would be, poten= tially, a way to "correctly process". DLEP specifies a list of Da= ta Items that can be passed between a modem and a router. However, we purpo= sefully don't specify exactly how each of those Data Items would (or sh= ould, or even could) be used - the WG consensus was that level of specifica= tion would amount to "boiling the ocean". For example, if a modem= sends a "Latency" data item to a router, and the receiving route= r doesn't understand (or need, or even care) about Latency, then the ro= uter shouldn't see that as an error.=C2=A0
=C2=A0

In 11.1:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0Text:=C2=A0 UTF-8 encoded string of UNICODE [RFC3629] characte= rs,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 describing the cause, used for implementation defined = purposes.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Since this field is used for description, implementati= ons SHOULD
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 limit characters in this field to printable characters= .
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Implementations receiving this Data Item SHOULD check = for
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 printable characters in the field.

Checking for printable Unicode characters might require keeping an
up-to-date
table of which Unicode characters are valid and are printable.
This seems like a rather high bar to implement, I suspect
implementations
wouldn't bother. I suggest either deleting the last sentence or
downgrading
it to MAY.

Again, a fair point. We will= re-word.=C2=A0

Regards,
Stan=C2=A0

=C2=A0

11.4.=C2=A0 Peer Type

=C2=A0 =C2=A0Peer Type:=C2=A0 UTF-8 encoded string of UNICODE [RFC3629] cha= racters.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 For example, a satellite modem might set this variable= to
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 "Satellite terminal".=C2=A0 Since this Data = Item is intended to provide
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 additional information for display commands, sending =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 implementations SHOULD limit the data to printable cha= racters, and
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 receiving implementations SHOULD check the data for pr= intable
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 characters.

As above.


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--001a114442d8c7ea84054380eab6-- From nobody Tue Dec 13 02:04:28 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCC56129A25; Tue, 13 Dec 2016 02:04:19 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.72 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.72 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=fastmail.fm header.b=BDpfqCaN; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=WQDuS4F0 Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BK5CV7-nDoi8; Tue, 13 Dec 2016 02:04:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from out4-smtp.messagingengine.com (out4-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.28]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 91905129456; Tue, 13 Dec 2016 02:04:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from compute7.internal (compute7.nyi.internal [10.202.2.47]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id C29D720870; Tue, 13 Dec 2016 05:04:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from frontend1 ([10.202.2.160]) by compute7.internal (MEProxy); Tue, 13 Dec 2016 05:04:12 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fastmail.fm; h=cc :content-transfer-encoding:content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-me-sender :x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc:x-sasl-enc; s=mesmtp; bh=gx37UamoemWnwit K4uEfa+7g+lE=; b=BDpfqCaN6e+M5BpylIcmzhbBT10mcM4h4/jEyfi1gJBcYQI hh/kX5/co2kJDoWtuTTytAISJ0OsHM9r9IuZnbDk6jlnPqmSfdbqayxJwKh2xOVI H1NiXwF5zmJ8sm9v4gpR2Gtv9BZhG1+A+LqlPDvgDFw5cWJJiNAgzYJFGPMg= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc:x-sasl-enc; s= smtpout; bh=gx37UamoemWnwitK4uEfa+7g+lE=; b=WQDuS4F0n3aAHd3UAM6R re5oR+ZjwWJYwgG6PmFK99Jc6ggOrWTE7OT5ckyCmZDhqnS9SPo/a22UWrxrQ6V6 hKevGnnFSdoed1pW30lEl4r/XDuVUKDiFI6yKwrxEVK/+wapNEAV+Yir/bX5cqYM Dzkg3TLcmgyUF+pmpq9hwb4= X-ME-Sender: X-Sasl-enc: lGCTkoZtDzd1Pzt0eyvtzjR6LqZChFIbPWoZX/M/HFIQ 1481623452 Received: from [10.215.160.30] (unknown [185.69.145.88]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 7542E7EE37; Tue, 13 Dec 2016 05:04:12 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) From: Alexey Melnikov X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (13G35) In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2016 10:11:45 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <79D48CEB-2CFC-43A8-8D01-5C5CB1778966@fastmail.fm> References: <148156334986.22491.1152871712874859894.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> To: Stan Ratliff Archived-At: Cc: MANET IETF , The IESG , draft-ietf-manet-dlep@ietf.org, manet-chairs@ietf.org Subject: Re: [manet] Alexey Melnikov's Discuss on draft-ietf-manet-dlep-26: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2016 10:04:20 -0000 Hi Stan, All your answers look good to me. But I think credential validation might ne= ed a bit more thought/discussion in the WG. Maybe you can specify how precon= figured IP or MAC addresses can be checked in X.509 certificates? (Just an i= dea, not necessarily saying that it is the right or the only way of doing th= is) Best Regards, Alexey From nobody Tue Dec 13 08:34:45 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: manet@ietf.org Delivered-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CB7B1295A6; Tue, 13 Dec 2016 08:34:41 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Kathleen Moriarty" To: "The IESG" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.39.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <148164688110.29322.7112665237497628249.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2016 08:34:41 -0800 Archived-At: Cc: manet@ietf.org, draft-ietf-manet-dlep@ietf.org, manet-chairs@ietf.org Subject: [manet] Kathleen Moriarty's No Objection on draft-ietf-manet-dlep-26: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2016 16:34:43 -0000 Kathleen Moriarty has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-manet-dlep-26: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-manet-dlep/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks, Alexey for asking the question on validating credentials in your discuss. It would be good to see more clarity on how that will be done and I see the response stating it is an outstanding problem in Manet - I'd like to know the plan to solve this. From nobody Tue Dec 13 14:44:03 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: manet@ietf.org Delivered-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01D10129C31; Tue, 13 Dec 2016 14:43:59 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Alia Atlas" To: "The IESG" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.39.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <148166903900.10872.17786351060220320313.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2016 14:43:59 -0800 Archived-At: Cc: manet@ietf.org, draft-ietf-manet-dlep@ietf.org, manet-chairs@ietf.org Subject: [manet] Alia Atlas' Yes on draft-ietf-manet-dlep-26: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2016 22:43:59 -0000 Alia Atlas has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-manet-dlep-26: Yes When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-manet-dlep/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Thank you for a well-written clear document. Every time I had a question, I found the answer in the next section. typo: a) bottom of 11.11.1 " Modems that do not track IPv6 subnets MUST silently ignore IPv4 Attached Subnet Data Items." The IPv4 should be IPv6. From nobody Tue Dec 13 14:50:26 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21953129C48; Tue, 13 Dec 2016 14:50:19 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.001 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=idirect.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qmcmYE-LYyTF; Tue, 13 Dec 2016 14:50:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx0b-00229401.pphosted.com (mx0b-00229401.pphosted.com [148.163.159.249]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4E356129C3E; Tue, 13 Dec 2016 14:50:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from pps.filterd (m0097890.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0b-00229401.pphosted.com (8.16.0.17/8.16.0.17) with SMTP id uBDMlKja016833; Tue, 13 Dec 2016 17:50:15 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=idirect.net; h=from : to : cc : subject : date : message-id : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding : mime-version; s=dk1; bh=f7TajPdeojWo4O9ncXPbS1ni9fPqozgXuudcr+3z6uw=; b=GM//WZrLiZjNPDWPHBaFGA5cQwKFeTGY63FxE47frIMu7B3SzyUVwcWfJfD4DpLP2xEM xc6i5B022zEIIfXgOVhAUMgiyqLUliLU8qonOwc+I5uNaildlE5Wc9enepVr1GQO3AM2 YFRHP/DLdoNSOby0/dkm8UC31wyox7UMSPhGfqXSVmVdVijhRm0eDPio9Bz7Hbu37uAO E/1wBPUAnJAwwIO5Tn8u2DfJ0/lLEQXnQDsUZ/RKrkaoJz7D8LEeXYzxm0viqWhJa36m G+ynH+GdEJTiiPu7FI04aL0bHSZs7oBj5/VlQ8vqvvjtzFGw5ur1DfeV289Y05wBwbwg 0Q== Received: from webmail.idirect.net ([198.180.159.2]) by mx0b-00229401.pphosted.com with ESMTP id 278ewgangp-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Tue, 13 Dec 2016 17:50:15 -0500 Received: from VAUSDITCHM2.idirect.net (10.250.250.202) by VAUSDITCHM1.idirect.net (10.250.250.201) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1236.3; Tue, 13 Dec 2016 17:50:14 -0500 Received: from VAUSDITCHM2.idirect.net ([fe80::b5b6:9e50:3403:e75d]) by VAUSDITCHM2.idirect.net ([fe80::b5b6:9e50:3403:e75d%15]) with mapi id 15.00.1236.000; Tue, 13 Dec 2016 17:50:14 -0500 From: "Ratliff, Stanley" To: Alia Atlas Thread-Topic: Alia Atlas' Yes on draft-ietf-manet-dlep-26: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHSVZJmwOO+u8r8ikG3ajlpHWEWqqEGe2Oz Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2016 22:50:13 +0000 Message-ID: <8BE5EC48-36C1-48ED-A20F-2B30AB9AF797@idirect.net> References: <148166903900.10872.17786351060220320313.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <148166903900.10872.17786351060220320313.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:, , definitions=2016-12-13_14:, , signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outboundspam_notspam policy=outboundspam score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1011 lowpriorityscore=0 impostorscore=0 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1609300000 definitions=main-1612130342 Archived-At: Cc: "manet-chairs@ietf.org" , "manet@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-manet-dlep@ietf.org" , The IESG Subject: Re: [manet] Alia Atlas' Yes on draft-ietf-manet-dlep-26: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2016 22:50:19 -0000 Alia, Thank you for the review. We will add the action item to the list for the n= ext revision. Regards, Stan Sent from my iPhone. Please excuse typos and autocorrect errors. > On Dec 13, 2016, at 5:44 PM, Alia Atlas wrote: >=20 > Alia Atlas has entered the following ballot position for > draft-ietf-manet-dlep-26: Yes >=20 > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this > introductory paragraph, however.) >=20 >=20 > Please refer to https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__ww= w.ietf.org_iesg_statement_discuss-2Dcriteria.html&d=3DDgICaQ&c=3DLlUvidvlhS= tGUSxQl0giOA&r=3DQzgCKlK-eUsbLW5r8KZAL9L_yqNON1dbKtMa-Wbxna8&m=3DiO58KwfQ2u= aHDrNkDP1E6c1fKqh0LqoyNJ6yxUR9MtY&s=3DeuH1rD1m_Ec7ZAOStlRfzuT01VFPzXc9h_92Q= Lk2hxY&e=3D=20 > for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. >=20 >=20 > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__datatracker.ietf.o= rg_doc_draft-2Dietf-2Dmanet-2Ddlep_&d=3DDgICaQ&c=3DLlUvidvlhStGUSxQl0giOA&r= =3DQzgCKlK-eUsbLW5r8KZAL9L_yqNON1dbKtMa-Wbxna8&m=3DiO58KwfQ2uaHDrNkDP1E6c1f= Kqh0LqoyNJ6yxUR9MtY&s=3DzReINOxv11LqiVF1hP5LrsCqy3pw3piOfmMOStI5yRk&e=3D=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > COMMENT: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >=20 > Thank you for a well-written clear document. Every time I had a > question, I found the answer in the next section. >=20 > typo: > a) bottom of 11.11.1 " Modems that do not track IPv6 subnets MUST > silently ignore IPv4 > Attached Subnet Data Items." The IPv4 should be IPv6. >=20 >=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D This electronic message and any files transmitted with it contains information from iDirect, which may be privileged, proprietary and/or confidential. It is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you are not the original recipient or the person responsible for delivering the email to the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this email in error, and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of this email is strictly prohibited. If you received this email in error, please delete it and immediately notify the sender. From nobody Tue Dec 13 16:02:36 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: manet@ietf.org Delivered-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E133129CB5; Tue, 13 Dec 2016 16:02:09 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Ben Campbell" To: "The IESG" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.39.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <148167372944.10880.17965532160271098693.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2016 16:02:09 -0800 Archived-At: Cc: manet@ietf.org, draft-ietf-manet-dlep@ietf.org, manet-chairs@ietf.org Subject: [manet] Ben Campbell's No Objection on draft-ietf-manet-dlep-26: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2016 00:02:09 -0000 Ben Campbell has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-manet-dlep-26: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-manet-dlep/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I agree with Alexey's discuss point about the security considerations. -5.1: Is discovery support optional? Can you offer any guidance on a reasonable maximum interval for peer discovery signals? - 5.2: It's probably worth mentioning that the messages from here onward go over the TCP connection established as a result of discovery. Can you offer any guidance on how long a modem should wait for the Session Initiation Message before abandoning a connection? -7, paragraph 2: "they will need to be standardized either as an update to this document, or as an additional stand-alone specification." I'm not sure what the distinction is between an update vs a stand-alone specification in this context. But in any case, it's unusual to require that a spec update an RFC to exercise defined extension points. - 8, first paragraph: "At large scale, implementations SHOULD consider employing techniques to prevent flooding its peer with a large number of Messages in a short time." The SHOULD consider is an odd use of a 2119 SHOULD. If the intent is to tell implentors to think about this, then the SHOULD is probably not appropriate. Or does this mean "implementations SHOULD employ techniques" (which would be perfectly reasonable)? -10.3: This seems to forbid the configuration of non-standard ports. Is that the intent? - 10.5, 2nd to last paragraph: Can you offer any sort of guidance at all for Session Initiation timeout values? -11.5: Do heartbeat messages occur in parallel to other active traffic, or only when things are quiet? Or in other words, do messages other than heartbeats reset the heartbeat interval timer? Can you offer any guidance on reasonable heartbeat interval values, or guidance on how to choose a value? It seems like there could be a lot of heartbeat messages if people choose low values. -12 Is eavesdropping a concern? Could inserted messages be used to direct user traffic over a compromised link? What is the reasoning to not at least require implementation of TLS? Do you imagine situations where it might make sense not to use TLS, other than the mentioned? ("deployments where the DLEP router and modem are the only devices on a physical Layer 2"). Would a "MUST use TLS unless..." construction make sense here? Editorial Comments: - General: Neither the abstract or the first few paragraphs of the introduction mention that this draft creates a protocol. That sort of buries the lede. Please consider mentioning that both in the abstract and near the top of section 1. - 10.5, 2nd to last paragraph: "DLEP Heartbeats are not fully established " I'm not sure what it means to fully establish heartbeats. Would it be reasonable to say "... not started"? From nobody Tue Dec 13 17:26:06 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27C691297E6; Tue, 13 Dec 2016 17:25:59 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wOK5D6LYi4Ei; Tue, 13 Dec 2016 17:25:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-io0-x234.google.com (mail-io0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c06::234]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 18ECA1293E1; Tue, 13 Dec 2016 17:25:56 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-io0-x234.google.com with SMTP id 136so15444983iou.3; Tue, 13 Dec 2016 17:25:56 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=mVbbqy355UpcB3qU8wGwvWOmqRE2SEIhyevWBAGjnyo=; b=fExaQmr4qm9g7ONdbae8gVN/HCq++5m2wDogsTP6rk+T0IvofoEcV2Lj2hXD0zWukq iSQM5XLelHtVg3oU6Mt5lcBSfixeaoyPUpnNlWH0EBo4Tdnuy55IdsoRVXuno9/Jw9/t GxeMitud2a5X0B+JeuAlxsyoHSX8CfF6gC7Oxr5CTTbfIAj7BI7fHrbTTEplCLcTqJ6s F1JYE90G1fQV+orbe5RQ0qNnfjnaDUcQjz15sSW3iCtLTWlpQwRneNb3nt/02JWSUhWA 7zliLgZCyzOBTVsKEw3uXl85Df8DzJzMigzcIUnS86krB5yaV6fVMdMqc1tt89HLfJUP U5Dw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=mVbbqy355UpcB3qU8wGwvWOmqRE2SEIhyevWBAGjnyo=; b=LAg4tmoEKEf/lUa06lD+3odM8CbnZrIUhg5nxe4X2kNCSzqKgs+Flh4nQh5uU5yjzz BOUFvs7vfNQNHlnmQP8CXiqn7/Ra84mdCAY05t8FAVRGprKxI/Z4onzGoQC3uASOPb39 JqqHiT8ONIDqZX1QLDgg1NUYANYSiCmi7N2ju9pmLKR7k79iwV8nMujMHGZHN71gFGJe S46M3OV1tewDcMYpvakjNqs7cGxtqS6L6ACI2yw3tU4fUDCh0o3ZCBTKrBfuMFhSZYXD b4a7xVtWkM/UPvlVn3G1cfoy6iw8jUvBQHRAx4Bz24EHrABjjKj8nlb8uzIhuAFrfhBB nHkA== X-Gm-Message-State: AKaTC037gn0cA2UVVlDK6tGt+Xxws+Xwiv0PSNxNTD4n0PWyd2xBcXSh4hUeET5kTkKcC+LDEMxB03cATUt+TQ== X-Received: by 10.107.197.197 with SMTP id v188mr18752534iof.119.1481678755321; Tue, 13 Dec 2016 17:25:55 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.79.90.4 with HTTP; Tue, 13 Dec 2016 17:25:54 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <148167372944.10880.17965532160271098693.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> References: <148167372944.10880.17965532160271098693.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Stan Ratliff Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2016 20:25:54 -0500 Message-ID: To: Ben Campbell Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=94eb2c18a9b0e1ddeb0543943713 Archived-At: Cc: MANET IETF , The IESG , draft-ietf-manet-dlep@ietf.org, manet-chairs@ietf.org Subject: Re: [manet] Ben Campbell's No Objection on draft-ietf-manet-dlep-26: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2016 01:25:59 -0000 --94eb2c18a9b0e1ddeb0543943713 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Ben, Thank you for the review. We will put these action items on the list for the next revision. Some additional responses inline. On Tue, Dec 13, 2016 at 7:02 PM, Ben Campbell wrote: > Ben Campbell has entered the following ballot position for > draft-ietf-manet-dlep-26: No Objection > > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this > introductory paragraph, however.) > > > Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html > for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. > > > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-manet-dlep/ > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > COMMENT: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > I agree with Alexey's discuss point about the security considerations. > > -5.1: Is discovery support optional? > Can you offer any guidance on a reasonable maximum interval for peer > discovery signals? > Discovery support is optional for routers (the sender of the MCAST discovery message); it is mandatory for modems. Routers may rely on a-priori configuration to reach the modem. That said, we will provide some guidance on a maximum interval for peer discovery signals. My initial take (without consensus from my fellow authors) would be some small number of minutes (perhaps 5) at maximum. > > - 5.2: It's probably worth mentioning that the messages from here onward > go over the TCP connection established as a result of discovery. > Can you offer any guidance on how long a modem should wait for the > Session Initiation Message before abandoning a connection? > Will do, on both points. > > -7, paragraph 2: "they will need to > be standardized either as an update to this document, or as an > additional stand-alone specification." > I'm not sure what the distinction is between an update vs a stand-alone > specification in this context. But in any case, it's unusual to require > that a spec update an RFC to exercise defined extension points. > We will change that text. We'll drop the reference to a spec update. > > - 8, first paragraph: "At large scale, implementations SHOULD > consider employing techniques to prevent flooding its peer with a > large number of Messages in a short time." > > The SHOULD consider is an odd use of a 2119 SHOULD. If the intent is to > tell implentors to think about this, then the SHOULD is probably not > appropriate. Or does this mean "implementations SHOULD employ techniques" > (which would be perfectly reasonable)? > Yes, that was the intent - that "implementations SHOULD employ techniques". We'll make that change. > > -10.3: This seems to forbid the configuration of non-standard ports. Is > that the intent? > The Peer Discovery signal itself doesn't have the ability to flow on a non-standard port. Otherwise, the modem wouldn't receive the Peer Discovery. However, the TCP session can be established on a non-standard port, via either a-priori config in the router, or use of the non-standard port in the "Connection Point" TLVs. > > - 10.5, 2nd to last paragraph: Can you offer any sort of guidance at all > for Session Initiation timeout values? > Yes, we will provide that guidance. Again, without consensus from my co-authors, this should be a small number of seconds (10, for example). > > -11.5: Do heartbeat messages occur in parallel to other active traffic, > or only when things are quiet? Or in other words, do messages other than > heartbeats reset the heartbeat interval timer? > Our intent was for other messages to "count" as heartbeats - Section 5.3.1 (Heartbeats), says in part: "Receipt of any valid DLEP Message MUST reset the heartbeat interval timer (i.e., valid DLEP Messages take the place of, and obviate the need for, additional Heartbeat Messages)." > Can you offer any guidance on reasonable heartbeat interval values, or > guidance on how to choose a value? It seems like there could be a lot of > heartbeat messages if people choose low values. > Yes, we will offer some guidance. In the end, the Heartbeat interval would need to take into consideration the frequency of "normal" DLEP messages, and the "pain level" of potential black-holing of traffic. Without co-author consensus, I'd expect the timer set at around 15-30 seconds. > > -12 Is eavesdropping a concern? Could inserted messages be used to direct > user traffic over a compromised link? > What is the reasoning to not at least require implementation of TLS? > Do you imagine situations where it might make sense not to use TLS, other > than the mentioned? ("deployments where the DLEP router and modem are the > only devices on a physical Layer 2"). Would a "MUST use TLS unless..." > construction make sense here? > We (the co-authors) have received feedback from some radio vendors stating that a "MUST use TLS" in all cases would be a show-stopper. We see deployments where a small number of devices co-exist on the LAN segment - for example, a router, a line-of-sight radio, a satellite terminal, and a small number of other devices. We're open to the construction you suggest, and will discuss it. > > Editorial Comments: > > - General: Neither the abstract or the first few paragraphs of the > introduction mention that this draft creates a protocol. That sort of > buries the lede. Please consider mentioning that both in the abstract and > near the top of section 1. > Will do. > > - 10.5, 2nd to last paragraph: "DLEP Heartbeats are not fully established > " > > I'm not sure what it means to fully establish heartbeats. Would it be > reasonable to say "... not started"? > Yes. We'll make that change. Regards, Stan > > > _______________________________________________ > manet mailing list > manet@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet > --94eb2c18a9b0e1ddeb0543943713 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Ben,=C2=A0

Thank you for the review. We= will put these action items on the list for the next revision. Some additi= onal responses inline.

On Tue, Dec 13, 2016 at 7:02 PM, Ben Campbell = <ben@nostrum.com> wrote:
Ben Campbell has entered the follow= ing ballot position for
draft-ietf-manet-dlep-26: No Objection

When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all
email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this
introductory paragraph, however.)


Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/<= wbr>statement/discuss-criteria.html
for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.


The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-i= etf-manet-dlep/



-----------------------------------------------------------------= -----
COMMENT:
-----------------------------------------------------------------= -----

I agree with Alexey's discuss point about the security considerations.<= br>
-5.1: Is discovery support optional?
Can you offer any guidance on a reasonable maximum interval for peer
discovery signals?

Discovery support is= optional for routers (the sender of the MCAST discovery message); it is ma= ndatory for modems. Routers may rely on a-priori configuration to reach the= modem.=C2=A0

That said, we will provide some guid= ance on a maximum interval for peer discovery signals. My initial take (wit= hout consensus from my fellow authors) would be some small number of minute= s (perhaps 5) at maximum.=C2=A0
=C2=A0

- 5.2: It's probably worth mentioning that the messages from here onwar= d
go over the TCP connection established as a result of discovery.
Can you offer any guidance on how long a modem should wait for the
Session Initiation Message before abandoning a connection?
=

Will do, on both points.=C2=A0
=C2=A0

-7, paragraph 2: "they will need to
=C2=A0 =C2=A0be standardized either as an update to this document, or as an=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0additional stand-alone specification."
I'm not sure what the distinction is between an update vs a stand-alone=
specification in this context. But in any case, it's unusual to require=
that a spec update an RFC to exercise=C2=A0 defined extension points.

We will change that text. We'll drop the= reference to a spec update.=C2=A0
=C2=A0

- 8, first paragraph: "At large scale, implementations SHOULD
=C2=A0 =C2=A0consider employing techniques to prevent flooding its peer wit= h a
=C2=A0 =C2=A0large number of Messages in a short time."

The SHOULD consider is an odd use of a 2119 SHOULD. If the intent is to
tell implentors to think about this, then the SHOULD is probably not
appropriate. Or does this mean "implementations SHOULD employ techniqu= es"
(which would be perfectly reasonable)?

= Yes, that was the intent - that "implementations SHOULD employ techniq= ues". We'll make that change.=C2=A0
=C2=A0

-10.3: This seems to forbid the configuration of non-standard ports. Is
that the intent?

The Peer Discovery sig= nal itself doesn't have the ability to flow on a non-standard port. Oth= erwise, the modem wouldn't receive the Peer Discovery.=C2=A0
=
However, the TCP session can be established on a non-standar= d port, via either a-priori config in the router, or use of the non-standar= d port in the "Connection Point" TLVs.=C2=A0
=C2=A0

- 10.5, 2nd to last paragraph: Can you offer any sort of guidance at all for Session Initiation timeout values?

= Yes, we will provide that guidance.=C2=A0 Again, without consensus from my = co-authors, this should be a small number of seconds (10, for example).=C2= =A0

-11.5: Do heartbeat messages occur in parallel to other active traffic,
or only when things are quiet? Or in other words, do messages other than heartbeats reset the heartbeat interval timer?

Our intent was for other messages to "count" as heartbeat= s - Section 5.3.1 (Heartbeats), says in part:=C2=A0

"Receipt of an= y valid DLEP Message MUST reset the heartbeat interval timer (i.e., valid DLEP Messages= take the place of, and obviate the need for, additional Heartbeat Messages)."

=C2=A0
Can you offer any guidance on reasonable heartbeat interval values, or
guidance on how to choose a value? It seems like there could be a lot of heartbeat messages if people choose low values.

Yes, we will offer some guidance. In the end, the Heartbeat interv= al would need to take into consideration the frequency of "normal"= ; DLEP messages, and the "pain level" of potential black-holing o= f traffic. Without co-author consensus, I'd expect the timer set at aro= und 15-30 seconds.=C2=A0
=C2=A0

-12 Is eavesdropping a concern? Could inserted messages be used to direct user traffic over a compromised link?
What is the reasoning to not at least require implementation of TLS?
Do you imagine situations where it might make sense not to use TLS, other than the mentioned? ("deployments where the DLEP router and modem are = the
only devices on a physical Layer 2"). Would a "MUST use TLS unles= s..."
construction make sense here?

We (the c= o-authors) have received feedback from some radio vendors stating that a &q= uot;MUST use TLS" in all cases would be a show-stopper. We see deploym= ents where a small number of devices co-exist on the LAN segment - for exam= ple, a router, a line-of-sight radio, a satellite terminal, and a small num= ber of other devices. We're open to the construction you suggest, and w= ill discuss it. =C2=A0
=C2=A0

Editorial Comments:

- General: Neither the abstract or the first few paragraphs of the
introduction mention that this draft creates a protocol. That sort of
buries the lede. Please consider mentioning that both in the abstract and near the top of section 1.

Will do.=C2= =A0
=C2=A0

- 10.5, 2nd to last paragraph: "DLEP Heartbeats are not fully establis= hed
"

I'm not sure what it means to fully establish heartbeats. Would it be reasonable to say "... not started"?

Yes. We'll make that change.=C2=A0

Reg= ards,
Stan
=C2=A0


_______________________________________________
manet mailing list
manet@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet

--94eb2c18a9b0e1ddeb0543943713-- From nobody Tue Dec 13 21:22:56 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: manet@ietf.org Delivered-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 915A612943C; Tue, 13 Dec 2016 21:22:51 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Suresh Krishnan" To: "The IESG" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.39.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <148169297159.10864.11213404330614218630.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2016 21:22:51 -0800 Archived-At: Cc: manet@ietf.org, draft-ietf-manet-dlep@ietf.org, manet-chairs@ietf.org Subject: [manet] Suresh Krishnan's Discuss on draft-ietf-manet-dlep-26: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2016 05:22:51 -0000 Suresh Krishnan has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-manet-dlep-26: Discuss When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-manet-dlep/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- DISCUSS: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- * Section 11.7 The MAC address encoding on the wire seems to be wrong. Instead of using 6 bytes for MAC-48 the document seems to using 8 bytes. Similarly for EUI-64 the document seems to be using 12 bytes instead of 8. Please fix this (Also Note that the length values specified under the format of the data item seem to be correct i.e. 6 & 8 - it is the data item format that is wrong) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- * Sections 11.2, 11.3, 11.9 and 11.10 The IPv4 and IPv6 addresses do not seem to be aligned on word boundaries. Didn't you face any inefficiencies/difficulties due to this in your implementations (I saw there were four independent ones)? * Section 11.11.1 Agree with Alia's point that there seems to be a typo in "IPv4 Attached Subnet" From nobody Wed Dec 14 08:32:30 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8ED18129405; Wed, 14 Dec 2016 08:32:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.796 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.796 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-2.896] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WGHSyv9I1OmM; Wed, 14 Dec 2016 08:32:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 234B9129423; Wed, 14 Dec 2016 08:31:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.0.1.39] (cpe-66-25-7-22.tx.res.rr.com [66.25.7.22]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id uBEGVq6V036721 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Wed, 14 Dec 2016 10:31:53 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from ben@nostrum.com) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host cpe-66-25-7-22.tx.res.rr.com [66.25.7.22] claimed to be [10.0.1.39] From: "Ben Campbell" To: "Stan Ratliff" Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2016 10:31:52 -0600 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: <148167372944.10880.17965532160271098693.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-Mailer: MailMate (1.9.6r5310) Archived-At: Cc: MANET IETF , The IESG , draft-ietf-manet-dlep@ietf.org, manet-chairs@ietf.org Subject: Re: [manet] Ben Campbell's No Objection on draft-ietf-manet-dlep-26: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2016 16:32:22 -0000 Thanks for the response. I've removed sections that don't seem to need further discussion. On 13 Dec 2016, at 19:25, Stan Ratliff wrote: [...] >> I agree with Alexey's discuss point about the security >> considerations. >> >> -5.1: Is discovery support optional? >> Can you offer any guidance on a reasonable maximum interval for peer >> discovery signals? >> > > Discovery support is optional for routers (the sender of the MCAST > discovery message); it is mandatory for modems. Routers may rely on > a-priori configuration to reach the modem. Did I miss language that said that in the draft? If not, an explicit mention would be helpful. > > That said, we will provide some guidance on a maximum interval for > peer > discovery signals. My initial take (without consensus from my fellow > authors) would be some small number of minutes (perhaps 5) at maximum. > [...] > >> >> -10.3: This seems to forbid the configuration of non-standard ports. >> Is >> that the intent? >> > > The Peer Discovery signal itself doesn't have the ability to flow on a > non-standard port. Otherwise, the modem wouldn't receive the Peer > Discovery. I understand that this makes it technically impossible for a router and modem to "agree" (via config) to use a different port for discovery, correct? Off the cuff, I can imagine some use cases for that, e.g. in testing, or to partition clusters of modems. But if the working group intentionally chose to forbid that, I'm okay with it. > > However, the TCP session can be established on a non-standard port, > via > either a-priori config in the router, or use of the non-standard port > in > the "Connection Point" TLVs. Do I understand correctly that the "standard" TCP port only matters if the router is configured to skip discovery and directly connect? [...] > >> >> -11.5: Do heartbeat messages occur in parallel to other active >> traffic, >> or only when things are quiet? Or in other words, do messages other >> than >> heartbeats reset the heartbeat interval timer? >> > > Our intent was for other messages to "count" as heartbeats - Section > 5.3.1 > (Heartbeats), says in part: > > "Receipt of any valid DLEP Message MUST reset the heartbeat interval > timer > (i.e., valid DLEP Messages take the place of, and obviate the need > for, > additional Heartbeat Messages)." Got it; missed that. It might be helpful to mention that fact in the language about the heartbeat interval. [...] > >> >> -12 Is eavesdropping a concern? Could inserted messages be used to >> direct >> user traffic over a compromised link? >> What is the reasoning to not at least require implementation of TLS? >> Do you imagine situations where it might make sense not to use TLS, >> other >> than the mentioned? ("deployments where the DLEP router and modem are >> the >> only devices on a physical Layer 2"). Would a "MUST use TLS >> unless..." >> construction make sense here? >> > > We (the co-authors) have received feedback from some radio vendors > stating > that a "MUST use TLS" in all cases would be a show-stopper. We see > deployments where a small number of devices co-exist on the LAN > segment - > for example, a router, a line-of-sight radio, a satellite terminal, > and a > small number of other devices. We're open to the construction you > suggest, > and will discuss it. Understood. That suggests there are reasons to not _use_ TLS other than the listed one, so "MUST unless" may not be what you want. Any thoughts on why TLS should not be mandatory to _implement_? [...] From nobody Wed Dec 14 09:12:53 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: manet@ietf.org Delivered-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33FE112951D; Wed, 14 Dec 2016 09:12:50 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: "Mirja Kuehlewind" To: "The IESG" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.39.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <148173557020.16832.1794865129983846438.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2016 09:12:50 -0800 Archived-At: Cc: manet@ietf.org, draft-ietf-manet-dlep@ietf.org, manet-chairs@ietf.org Subject: [manet] =?utf-8?q?Mirja_K=C3=BChlewind=27s_Discuss_on_draft-ietf-?= =?utf-8?q?manet-dlep-26=3A_=28with_DISCUSS_and_COMMENT=29?= X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2016 17:12:50 -0000 Mirja Kühlewind has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-manet-dlep-26: Discuss When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-manet-dlep/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- DISCUSS: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Am I missing something or does the doc not specify which policy/policies should be used for registration of new values in these new registries? (Also previously mentioned by the tsv-art reviewer - thx!) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Technical comments: 1) You say "If a Signal is received with a TTL value that is NOT equal to 255, the receiving implementation MUST ignore the Signal." and "If a packet in the TCP stream is received with a TTL value other than 255, the receiving implementation MUST immediately transition to the Session Reset state." However, there is no requirement that the initial TTL must be 225. I guess you can just add a sentence to require this from the sender. 2) You say: "If an unrecognized, or unexpected Signal is received, or a received Signal contains unrecognized, invalid, or disallowed duplicate Data Items, the receiving implementation MUST ignore the Signal." Would it make sense to also send an error signal in this case or was this omitted as it could be used as a DoS reflector? If so, maybe add a sentence. 3) in section 10.5: "DLEP Heartbeats are not fully established until receipt of the Session Initialization Response Message (Section 10.6), and therefore implementations MUST use their own timeout and retry heuristics for this Message." I'm not sure if re-trying makes sense given that TCP should deliver the data reliably here. I guess time-out to terminate the TCP and a local error log would be more appropriate. 4) section 11.16: "The Latency value is reported as transmission delay. The calculation of latency is implementation dependent. For example, the latency may be a running average calculated from the internal queuing." Not sure if this is very useful. I would either recommend to define to report the average (or max?) latency (where the calculation is still of course implementation specific) or have three different items for min, max, and current average. Editorial comment: The 2119 boilerplate has a weird position as part of a subsection. I assume that this is intended to say that the normative text starts here but it could also be interpreted to be just part of the subsection. Also having 'Requirements' (3.1) as subsection of 'Extension' (3) seems to be an error. I would suggest to have the 2119 boilerplate as well as the Requirements section both as own main level sections. And sec 3 and sec 7 are both called 'Extensions'...? Further: I didn't see a reply to the tsv-art review by Micheal Scharf. Have those comments be addressed? Here is his review on -25: This draft is basically ready for publication, but has nits that should be fixed before publication. TSV-ART review comments: * I think the DLEP protocol makes an implicit assumption that the 1-hop link between the router and the modem is unlikely to become a bottleneck, e.g., because its bandwidth is larger than the maximum possible bandwidth of the modem. I assume that in typical deployments this condition can be fulfilled, and the hop count limitation provides some safety measures. Yet, the link between the router and modem could possibly run over a tunnel, with unknown performance characteristics (e.g., another wireless backhaul link). It is unclear what a router would indeed learn from the information provided by DLEP in such a case. This scenario is not the target environment for the protocol, but it would make sense to more explicitly spell out that assumption, e.g., in Section 1. Other comments: * Page 9: "If the router and modem support both IPv4 and IPv6, the IPv6 transport MUST be used for the DLEP session." seems inconsistent with page 21: "For routers supporting both IPv4 and IPv6 DLEP operation, it is RECOMMENDED that IPv6 be selected as the transport." * I am not an IANA expert but at first sight the IANA section does not comprehensively describe the policy for modifying the IANA registries (Section 4 in RFC 5226). Is it "Standards Action"? This in particular matters for the extensions in Section 13.6. From nobody Wed Dec 14 11:05:42 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: manet@ietf.org Delivered-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EAB34129A64; Wed, 14 Dec 2016 11:05:40 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Alissa Cooper" To: "The IESG" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.39.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <148174234095.16918.11283344396419538138.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2016 11:05:40 -0800 Archived-At: Cc: manet@ietf.org, draft-ietf-manet-dlep@ietf.org, manet-chairs@ietf.org Subject: [manet] Alissa Cooper's No Objection on draft-ietf-manet-dlep-26: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2016 19:05:41 -0000 Alissa Cooper has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-manet-dlep-26: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-manet-dlep/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For the Latency and Relative Link Quality metrics, it seems like allowing their measurement methods to be implementation-dependent reduces their usefulness. If two different implementations calculate these in different ways, then the results may not be comparable. Are these not meant to be compared between different destination implementations? From nobody Thu Dec 15 00:46:10 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1055129B73; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 00:46:07 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UcAOohKrg2S4; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 00:46:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qt0-x241.google.com (mail-qt0-x241.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c0d::241]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E523A12954D; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 00:46:05 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qt0-x241.google.com with SMTP id n34so6018860qtb.3; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 00:46:05 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=vkQEPnqAN2eCNnEQXGNKI4fN5bJxL8gY3I4rRK8U9TQ=; b=KTSEx93I59+Z5id7fUXS9yt/+Yx8XQB/t/H1Sr3emmKJnIheBWwZCmyilKknl0hM6Y xpt0EXiBdFhOd//b97kDt4xL+WIcGJMjTO6gYYasDCzh/uyp812CnhMO1ZiabVmU6IzU 2YpCJR2rTkwpnBZzlxU+aAE43wL7BEcASwSdq3Qqut8iJGqUfi1oL/4MUVb3tZBib7Ht uOuJJ0QWETk+V5LZjEZ1yMHR5byRT+XkkYaCDAEdMBOVLLvuN4O8NBTO7sLakb4n0W0g lG53mm6hWEme5aItM0FeAB3dvG41WEhMwR9dYqegwerZO76k97Djoc6ZPYdKEVB85D0p 5G1w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=vkQEPnqAN2eCNnEQXGNKI4fN5bJxL8gY3I4rRK8U9TQ=; b=YFabF30rjgAt8Vdxofi8DbXp0NUM6Me5900OYvUyHC/xk7CJQecGkxXvSCu2OOnIf7 Uau9ItpSv9QFEdrzWKyGIv7TKhVy36O4is0zVk/M9wV0l75zuIwU69S270YaLkEMebN/ Sk7L8YWAsi8aiPUcx3uY+P3gZAQLPzYNuAsCYNOlX1QRzY6QyK6zWBdz7A0R4Y1SSnBD FVmhdFFgshI9oOpEeLpdsCsGq+d4lisoF/5gY4OxbhzKgQYJToAmIyOlt7tzwD9Vrz85 d5XUzPsWFYoNZqpYPhCsx2dRQTsNwSz6oZHpK2DjBqogpmkoC5j2O/fn5pcqW37y6+IM 6fNw== X-Gm-Message-State: AIkVDXLOFdMosNB8CuyL4+/TnTbm1NPaobZPuiXaHX7o4NGNjwWEW2U0a3PV+ylY3Qc46xSyKEQBp3FaQf3ZuA== X-Received: by 10.200.36.125 with SMTP id d58mr152864qtd.126.1481791565074; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 00:46:05 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.237.38.161 with HTTP; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 00:45:34 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <148167372944.10880.17965532160271098693.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Henning Rogge Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2016 09:45:34 +0100 Message-ID: To: Ben Campbell Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: Cc: draft-ietf-manet-dlep@ietf.org, MANET IETF , The IESG , manet-chairs@ietf.org Subject: Re: [manet] Ben Campbell's No Objection on draft-ietf-manet-dlep-26: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2016 08:46:08 -0000 On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 5:31 PM, Ben Campbell wrote: >> We (the co-authors) have received feedback from some radio vendors stating >> that a "MUST use TLS" in all cases would be a show-stopper. We see >> deployments where a small number of devices co-exist on the LAN segment - >> for example, a router, a line-of-sight radio, a satellite terminal, and a >> small number of other devices. We're open to the construction you suggest, >> and will discuss it. > > Understood. That suggests there are reasons to not _use_ TLS other than the > listed one, so "MUST unless" may not be what you want. Any thoughts on why > TLS should not be mandatory to _implement_? I might exaggerate it a little bit but I think using TLS for DLEP is at best a waste of time to implement. I have yet to hear about an attacker model for a single hop DLEP connection (which is necessary because otherwise the bridged datapath is broken!) which is not easily dealt with MAC-layer security. At worst TLS will kill one of the most important aspects of DLEP, easy integration and autodiscovery of radios by different vendors to any kind of router. TLS also opens can of worms (additional questions). How is the DLEP certificates be handled? Are there mandatory types of certificate algorithms (if not, you break interoperability)? How do you secure the UDP part of DLEP for discovery (DTLS?) ? How do you make sure that the DTLS connection is to the same endpoint as the TLS connection? There is a LOT of work in this direction without any gain. Henning Rogge From nobody Thu Dec 15 00:56:22 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E870C129C07; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 00:56:11 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3-05k3Hy2OVy; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 00:56:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qk0-x243.google.com (mail-qk0-x243.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c09::243]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F3FF9129B41; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 00:56:07 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qk0-x243.google.com with SMTP id h201so6354070qke.3; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 00:56:07 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=xRDgRL4kW6ayYy2joyGJToatfHBQN0CD2JZeCY2idQc=; b=OZbgC3A8D80i93A3siZn3vzwXsTt09KpxhjtDgU4/0W8j98gygpkx5rcQTRuLuyPQf TIyykDuEMd8M9QL/ZYGNc+y+c7pjI9KbiKEV5YpDISgsTkOxrGgAbyNUTnnaOagzvGaF XGXsZNos8QggdtGnBQbE77N3Iq8acMcPv/9LG3m91CBByFXIWxy54jVTR1k8XH1VTy7l u794V+E0ZNymG5WzxRgUj3CHOkUDjpvmFbE5/fYY6V0Ff8/XtiHXQpPiDgMI7Q3t9Xdd p6nWzLRX7sqXVu7Fa4nxqtUhatg2fVBFbAxjRhdOjG+lPx2ToEMEj0QlHlbPh24XYnnD zs7A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=xRDgRL4kW6ayYy2joyGJToatfHBQN0CD2JZeCY2idQc=; b=Fvi9LgrbA5xs2k1gryey40DhYJeSLY4gZUnbvhSqxvnZ4XmPUM9IrinnD3P6L3KOmd 1Z7F+ui5OlxoEv888zuuBMkDmLUyDMIi/ebeulDmS2oayMn+UUbeiNI3U3BIrOOIjAtZ P6ggtfiX54lUsXe76vp2IxJ0QylJAhTmZLllcIn5KzHqGTamCIz/D/RuokXqI18Gf7EW a9XawoiX4OIG5iqDpZSKjyFpIvAJTmLj+QfdrFKf9bXTlB9dV6OZthYlrZPlWMBnNgj7 xBxL5U88mBz9GPz398w1XITeLbHGPhBbJaTWT7Ey6CJvQilCODHMIGex05txcXzi9O1M D+jg== X-Gm-Message-State: AIkVDXKeZXfE60lpPbz3h8FdohqfZM6thMiHrPkdoVRZwZmx5tl/4Fae/MzeJoesadnMiMBx023zEY1h7ebCIA== X-Received: by 10.55.174.135 with SMTP id x129mr194635qke.133.1481792167193; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 00:56:07 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.237.38.161 with HTTP; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 00:55:36 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <148169297159.10864.11213404330614218630.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> References: <148169297159.10864.11213404330614218630.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Henning Rogge Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2016 09:55:36 +0100 Message-ID: To: Suresh Krishnan Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: Cc: MANET IETF , The IESG , draft-ietf-manet-dlep@ietf.org, manet-chairs@ietf.org Subject: Re: [manet] Suresh Krishnan's Discuss on draft-ietf-manet-dlep-26: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2016 08:56:12 -0000 On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 6:22 AM, Suresh Krishnan wrote: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > COMMENT: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > * Sections 11.2, 11.3, 11.9 and 11.10 > The IPv4 and IPv6 addresses do not seem to be aligned on word boundaries. > Didn't you face any inefficiencies/difficulties due to this in your > implementations (I saw there were four independent ones)? DLEP does not use any padding on single TLVs, so you must be able to parse a TLS beginning on an unaligned address anyways. Henning Rogge From nobody Thu Dec 15 01:00:02 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F09AE129B73; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 00:59:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NR_qY4mi9y7G; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 00:59:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qk0-x243.google.com (mail-qk0-x243.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c09::243]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7AD9212947A; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 00:59:44 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qk0-x243.google.com with SMTP id h201so6362600qke.3; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 00:59:44 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=oQlW6WxJWBQ6vtnBcNQdrTexfJ52hGxdkfU9juNgT9Y=; b=RrDcY5codJ5Xfs29d57tApzL+G4lbEY9iu3aM1dufBcZ9hiYcrnDPtN5YjtS2AHa+z fcpOlCmaVrL0u8g6+alOPmCHE4FWdPn65NWL4uSlLmFqn7eApJtCRXqIwq2lYLHGvH3b /8SEbVn6KxCIhjYkPaGmhM95HTPtWGGDmSAJa25CHt9FonjIdxkpDV9sKx/ZlJw3dMW9 a5gmbvBzJ+gzjCBzG83+vyWqGCxtre4J8EJmJBqNNsh4w2khSwy9EMCYyvQGkpNmvJVX wrwExr6VwUfpBudc1GQBVy0UWXLT1ym7zW1L8qwf5z9wyewGTFEIKtJ//Bh4hm0MOvaq 2/6g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=oQlW6WxJWBQ6vtnBcNQdrTexfJ52hGxdkfU9juNgT9Y=; b=i9jBzDdElu3DO299HIy+KzFPdAeHlQ+F2zON+C9CmuI3j4rUSjPpqlH4cSjdv3D9J7 zD3bkFX4yjK6doTzFX9yyatXrndGvWIXgBF04hJ1QoHdFdl/+SqZPZOlX4Zalvgncj+H NzzLTUczt2620hw0HOl1IM+1dVaM3PneRcQ0O5d60X4YtA6yowedB+xXkpaLUvoLny69 kufcX1pl+/1/jW25SSgNZhz/3l+tYYfm1lO865R0aJuluCEc+e4LHu+cReZMPe9S/MlW 9mGugKQSX04ulbQC/vXf62K+rF57vcA4DqjbC4U5qQkostdzaXnensMknfJ59wQckglQ EvmA== X-Gm-Message-State: AIkVDXLOb8lHSwoYvlzYfQXe02PMVVj60/pes5+U248GmVTYCheAdKaO4+2IhvcBxgc+9p/2ZsdgqfLmXDjrwg== X-Received: by 10.55.5.65 with SMTP id 62mr186972qkf.308.1481792383757; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 00:59:43 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.237.38.161 with HTTP; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 00:59:13 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <79D48CEB-2CFC-43A8-8D01-5C5CB1778966@fastmail.fm> References: <148156334986.22491.1152871712874859894.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <79D48CEB-2CFC-43A8-8D01-5C5CB1778966@fastmail.fm> From: Henning Rogge Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2016 09:59:13 +0100 Message-ID: To: Alexey Melnikov Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Cc: draft-ietf-manet-dlep@ietf.org, MANET IETF , The IESG , manet-chairs@ietf.org Subject: Re: [manet] Alexey Melnikov's Discuss on draft-ietf-manet-dlep-26: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2016 08:59:50 -0000 On Tue, Dec 13, 2016 at 11:11 AM, Alexey Melnikov wrote: > Hi Stan, > > All your answers look good to me. But I think credential validation might= need a bit more thought/discussion in the WG. Maybe you can specify how pr= econfigured IP or MAC addresses can be checked in X.509 certificates? (Just= an idea, not necessarily saying that it is the right or the only way of do= ing this) I raised the point of the certificate problem ages ago as an argument to DROP TLS from DLEP completely. Henning Rogge From nobody Thu Dec 15 01:16:13 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F041F129C07; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 01:16:06 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=fastmail.fm header.b=atndJR1m; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=WjI48mz2 Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KZ6q5dxMArkK; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 01:16:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from out3-smtp.messagingengine.com (out3-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.27]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49974129C3C; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 01:15:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from compute7.internal (compute7.nyi.internal [10.202.2.47]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9CD4208D5; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 04:15:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from frontend1 ([10.202.2.160]) by compute7.internal (MEProxy); Thu, 15 Dec 2016 04:15:56 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fastmail.fm; h=cc :content-transfer-encoding:content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-me-sender :x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc:x-sasl-enc; s=mesmtp; bh=51hlsOR6FX/9Hw7 rAYfWi0sukzw=; b=atndJR1mnDi+TP9C1r0KCjiTVmGYD2536nIXEPzoY5v6Xme fPSVb0AsMZZmYdYQazjY+b9ACFJL3uSQ5KPb6qBwEjDHkSYnR+Lfb9b5Ic1fGKhi CudRAlusmoy1bP/1AOHEHFszePEiZrn3tUkY6lLTIr4j828Pnj7hWtw33Gvc= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc:x-sasl-enc; s= smtpout; bh=51hlsOR6FX/9Hw7rAYfWi0sukzw=; b=WjI48mz2/cc+7VtOQjd1 +i21iU1t+sN8ZTGKtbqkLbpP02952+H2PIs3bZ3NUXJgJ1fYPbvu5ng86S9ZkYGI ZHIdFxny6/r5WcVgHRpBLZIDfvA8y5D3vJRRL0uJC1G2QjV1O2EdIBeqsopPDQHz sd1Du7kdLleL/MzGOSMYWe8= X-ME-Sender: X-Sasl-enc: HcR4ESSQCD07oEDc/hRUd/baehznkJhYFvPKP9gYNB5+ 1481793356 Received: from [192.168.0.5] (cpc5-nmal20-2-0-cust24.19-2.cable.virginm.net [92.234.84.25]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 45FEA7EA02; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 04:15:56 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) From: Alexey Melnikov X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (13G35) In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2016 09:23:36 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <9B802ACF-84EF-4C47-92F8-122CA724C71A@fastmail.fm> References: <148156334986.22491.1152871712874859894.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <79D48CEB-2CFC-43A8-8D01-5C5CB1778966@fastmail.fm> To: Henning Rogge Archived-At: Cc: draft-ietf-manet-dlep@ietf.org, MANET IETF , The IESG , manet-chairs@ietf.org Subject: Re: [manet] Alexey Melnikov's Discuss on draft-ietf-manet-dlep-26: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2016 09:16:07 -0000 Hi, > On 15 Dec 2016, at 08:59, Henning Rogge wrote: >=20 > On Tue, Dec 13, 2016 at 11:11 AM, Alexey Melnikov > wrote: >> Hi Stan, >>=20 >> All your answers look good to me. But I think credential validation might= need a bit more thought/discussion in the WG. Maybe you can specify how pre= configured IP or MAC addresses can be checked in X.509 certificates? (Just a= n idea, not necessarily saying that it is the right or the only way of doing= this) >=20 > I raised the point of the certificate problem ages ago as an argument > to DROP TLS from DLEP completely. Even unauthenticated TLS is better than no TLS, so I would rather the docume= nt continues to recommend it. From nobody Thu Dec 15 01:22:22 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD772129C46; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 01:22:13 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EiGZ_Zu3LzCL; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 01:22:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qk0-x243.google.com (mail-qk0-x243.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c09::243]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DD615129436; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 01:22:11 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qk0-x243.google.com with SMTP id h201so6419952qke.3; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 01:22:11 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=ZAJS2lUfWhDr+RgVyLJjl9H6MefRcqbB7E+kqeFxsqA=; b=Gy+Gd8nQLM5u0E8pkDvXmyM9eF19DwcvT3i8TKLx5TFPIiBjHWbCD3ltVhMmM+AZfe Ne4h+h/PPcYeG00u8gMLV6X866s0R/cyrMHZXfa91EJW+W+v5mitFZBA2I+HpOcugdYz fD6uWLuobOL7QjmwgltppyFXC2hJ+mhbvcS8pfXPjUlckR/b7scakBN1T7qE/VwePPMS pSwEssfHRs1JsoJxUA0me14J7IH/fXJtztBZbtD4CeiS2VWp+sQdB2IQz9oR38+ptND1 9M5wwECf0QTPB1PhtK+4VP3D6/FeMeJ8jYDzzkW6ZIUQu1xnLNfvIiDD0B7niQVfyUf6 OONw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=ZAJS2lUfWhDr+RgVyLJjl9H6MefRcqbB7E+kqeFxsqA=; b=M8y+/6QRXiKEcheLcp9AQn5kx/xlArm1/RMpLHnFwiIWj+WlD+kMSGqf3Uj68W4Lfl EiafUWq5OeLInv6cD40G/aaWOoK9qHf/nuJq+Mu0J+6DJkY+JZe92WeZWSFypXphGVte jkpvok8UtYvw/afFSbnUH2K+hSLWAYQmur0bTv/uKhjbzZyv/kC6j5upCLX01Yp35L2Z s1xeivEsbeKKBgT+nDZLyhOqQDGnKZSjm6aeEbtF0SnYL2dcxbAge/EWFA1V0KG1b5kz PSQIDZ1nM8R9iEzNZVwlp9pepighJxiYYPCPRU3zXbZDCE8vs0Fllv7+FKq7aPnd17ON DOKg== X-Gm-Message-State: AIkVDXISP2Zmv9BkZWr32o/BL9gjW7F41BfkEbuxarbH+Dsw7/8S2W+A6m3WjmtifuEzj05yTofGAP62BU8l/w== X-Received: by 10.55.156.138 with SMTP id f132mr236001qke.177.1481793731083; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 01:22:11 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.237.38.161 with HTTP; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 01:21:40 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <9B802ACF-84EF-4C47-92F8-122CA724C71A@fastmail.fm> References: <148156334986.22491.1152871712874859894.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <79D48CEB-2CFC-43A8-8D01-5C5CB1778966@fastmail.fm> <9B802ACF-84EF-4C47-92F8-122CA724C71A@fastmail.fm> From: Henning Rogge Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2016 10:21:40 +0100 Message-ID: To: Alexey Melnikov Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Cc: draft-ietf-manet-dlep@ietf.org, MANET IETF , The IESG , manet-chairs@ietf.org Subject: Re: [manet] Alexey Melnikov's Discuss on draft-ietf-manet-dlep-26: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2016 09:22:14 -0000 On Thu, Dec 15, 2016 at 10:23 AM, Alexey Melnikov wrote: > Hi, > >> On 15 Dec 2016, at 08:59, Henning Rogge wrote: >> >> On Tue, Dec 13, 2016 at 11:11 AM, Alexey Melnikov >> wrote: >>> Hi Stan, >>> >>> All your answers look good to me. But I think credential validation mig= ht need a bit more thought/discussion in the WG. Maybe you can specify how = preconfigured IP or MAC addresses can be checked in X.509 certificates? (Ju= st an idea, not necessarily saying that it is the right or the only way of = doing this) >> >> I raised the point of the certificate problem ages ago as an argument >> to DROP TLS from DLEP completely. > > Even unauthenticated TLS is better than no TLS, so I would rather the doc= ument continues to recommend it. What kind of security does unauthenticated TLS provide against an attacker that sits on your local LAN segment? Its not that DLEP carry any "secret" data... I have spoken with a few radio vendors and from what I got none of them considers to implement TLS. Nobody sees any advantage of it, but everyone sees a huge cost. Cost in terms of performance (Flow control is delay dependent), cost in terms of complexity, costs in terms of interoperability. Henning Rogge From nobody Thu Dec 15 02:36:39 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D500129503; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 02:36:29 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QuDsEsjd59M6; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 02:36:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-dotnet4.eads.net (mail-dotnet4.eads.net [193.56.40.77]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3C22D1294E6; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 02:36:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from unknown (HELO fr-gate2.mailhub.intra.corp) ([53.154.16.34]) by mail-dotnet4.eads.net with ESMTP; 15 Dec 2016 11:36:01 +0100 Received: from f8562vs5.main.fr.ds.corp ([10.37.8.22]) by fr-gate2.mailhub.intra.corp with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.7381); Thu, 15 Dec 2016 11:35:56 +0100 Received: from f8562vs4.main.fr.ds.corp ([10.37.8.28]) by f8562vs5.main.fr.ds.corp with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Thu, 15 Dec 2016 11:35:56 +0100 Received: from SUCNPTEXC01.com.ad.uk.ds.corp ([10.80.73.70]) by f8562vs4.main.fr.ds.corp with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Thu, 15 Dec 2016 11:35:56 +0100 Received: from SUCNPTEXM01.COM.AD.UK.DS.CORP ([fe80::2543:10a0:fd02:b894]) by SUCNPTEXC01.com.ad.uk.ds.corp ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0279.002; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 10:35:55 +0000 From: "Taylor, Rick (External)" To: Alissa Cooper , The IESG Thread-Topic: [manet] Alissa Cooper's No Objection on draft-ietf-manet-dlep-26: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHSVj2q0ebFhEhhNEi7kt+i4WSQ9aEI0WWQ Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2016 10:35:55 +0000 Message-ID: References: <148174234095.16918.11283344396419538138.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <148174234095.16918.11283344396419538138.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.80.22.46] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Dec 2016 10:35:56.0331 (UTC) FILETIME=[049D0FB0:01D256BF] X-TM-AS-Product-Ver: SMEX-8.0.0.4194-7.500.1017-22762.006 X-TM-AS-Result: No--20.475100-0.000000-31 X-TM-AS-User-Approved-Sender: Yes X-TM-AS-User-Blocked-Sender: No Archived-At: Cc: "manet@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-manet-dlep@ietf.org" , "manet-chairs@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [manet] Alissa Cooper's No Objection on draft-ietf-manet-dlep-26: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2016 10:36:29 -0000 Hi Alissa, Thank you for the review. A few replies to your comments inline... (Sorry for the multiple postings, but my local mailserver hates the IETF ma= iling lists) > -----Original Message----- > From: Alissa Cooper [mailto:alissa@cooperw.in] > Sent: 14 December 2016 19:06 > To: The IESG > Cc: draft-ietf-manet-dlep@ietf.org; aretana@cisco.com; manet- > chairs@ietf.org; bebemaster@gmail.com; manet@ietf.org > Subject: Alissa Cooper's No Objection on draft-ietf-manet-dlep-26: > (with > COMMENT) > > Alissa Cooper has entered the following ballot position for > draft-ietf-manet-dlep-26: No Objection > > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut > this introductory paragraph, however.) > > > Please refer to > https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html > for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. > > > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-manet-dlep/ > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > COMMENT: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For the Latency and Relative Link Quality metrics, it seems like > allowing their measurement methods to be implementation-dependent > reduces their usefulness. If two different implementations calculate > these in different ways, then the results may not be comparable. Are > these not meant to be compared between different destination implementati= ons? Yes, this is indeed a difficult issue. The underlying concept behind DLEP = is that modem implementers have their own low-level mechanisms for measurin= g such things as latency, and exposing these metrics to the routing layer r= ather than forcing the up layers to measure such things can be useful. How= ever, we didn't want to prescribe how a lower-layer might calculate such me= trics, as we couldn't see a 'one size fits all' mechanism being useful. When comparing metrics between destinations reported by a single modem, it = is considered a safe assumption that the metrics are sensibly comparable. = When comparing metrics reported between different modems, it gets more comp= licated. For metrics such as latency, it's fairly well understood what lat= ency means. However, for Relative Link Quality, that is by design subjecti= ve, the suggestion from DLEP is that this metric is most useful when used a= s a modifier to other metrics, hence the second paragraph in Section 11.18 = and 11.19. Hope that goes some way to explaining our rationale? Regards, Rick Taylor The information contained within this e-mail and any files attached to this= e-mail is private and in addition may include commercially sensitive infor= mation. The contents of this e-mail are for the intended recipient only and= therefore if you wish to disclose the information contained within this e-= mail or attached files, please contact the sender prior to any such disclos= ure. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying or distribut= ion is prohibited. Please also contact the sender and inform them of the er= ror and delete the e-mail, including any attached files from your system. Emails to Airbus Defence and Space Limited may be processed, recorded and m= onitored anywhere in the European Community. Airbus Defence and Space Limited Registered Office: Gunnels Wood Road, Stevenage, Hertfordshire, SG1 2AS. Registered in England and Wales under company number 02449259. From nobody Thu Dec 15 06:11:25 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F5C1129FBC; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 06:11:17 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.701 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.701 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cooperw.in header.b=UQ6V4Qy0; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=Gv1b7E0Q Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id scyOOqVii1ar; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 06:11:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from out3-smtp.messagingengine.com (out3-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.27]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F413E129E5A; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 06:09:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from compute7.internal (compute7.nyi.internal [10.202.2.47]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FEC020999; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 09:09:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from frontend1 ([10.202.2.160]) by compute7.internal (MEProxy); Thu, 15 Dec 2016 09:09:51 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cooperw.in; h=cc :content-transfer-encoding:content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-me-sender :x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc:x-sasl-enc; s=mesmtp; bh=ZP/J/zTUigxAlo3 aAq9eVIBfmH4=; b=UQ6V4Qy08nI4CH1auX+7SGn6DulUemgmS2ikwp44E9VeDic JH/K4EZueqLBd2D7TmFM4fT48geJdPdaYRc3aZV5HkCYVk9KlwDhsCKT03StdsxB rZiNy8fomTbfZLEVS7VhLqO4E+X7f4lCK9sFmG7+pxk+wwRQyZffW+O5kph8= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc:x-sasl-enc; s= smtpout; bh=ZP/J/zTUigxAlo3aAq9eVIBfmH4=; b=Gv1b7E0Q0S0vjn/CUXYr YimPOMxDY8auVLK7DZc+9jBUhNjtDq/7J0DAsq8rTOtWAB5ri+MmL/dQHvLXsrj7 hme4gqI5f/Hzt5Uh6bmXLdYKF4Lv4ve6DnyccLkcNWVbAE/xq4DLo9AirePkT1dF MVxKOPP+OYEAg4gWXNgP0jM= X-ME-Sender: X-Sasl-enc: wdcJ4BRPoVoZSmK4dpMe66ZHzHB0D1/Q856ojRpeofAs 1481810990 Received: from sjc-alcoop-8819.cisco.com (unknown [128.107.241.169]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 242E77EA48; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 09:09:50 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) From: Alissa Cooper In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2016 09:09:49 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <234FB6D4-831A-46A8-907A-59D2784C35D7@cooperw.in> References: <148174234095.16918.11283344396419538138.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> To: "Taylor, Rick (External)" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) Archived-At: Cc: "manet@ietf.org" , The IESG , "draft-ietf-manet-dlep@ietf.org" , "manet-chairs@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [manet] Alissa Cooper's No Objection on draft-ietf-manet-dlep-26: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2016 14:11:17 -0000 Hi Rick, > On Dec 15, 2016, at 5:35 AM, Taylor, Rick (External) = wrote: >=20 > Hi Alissa, >=20 > Thank you for the review. A few replies to your comments inline... >=20 > (Sorry for the multiple postings, but my local mailserver hates the = IETF mailing lists) >=20 >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Alissa Cooper [mailto:alissa@cooperw.in] >> Sent: 14 December 2016 19:06 >> To: The IESG >> Cc: draft-ietf-manet-dlep@ietf.org; aretana@cisco.com; manet- >> chairs@ietf.org; bebemaster@gmail.com; manet@ietf.org >> Subject: Alissa Cooper's No Objection on draft-ietf-manet-dlep-26: >> (with >> COMMENT) >>=20 >> Alissa Cooper has entered the following ballot position for >> draft-ietf-manet-dlep-26: No Objection >>=20 >> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all >> email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut >> this introductory paragraph, however.) >>=20 >>=20 >> Please refer to >> https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html >> for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. >>=20 >>=20 >> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-manet-dlep/ >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> = ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> COMMENT: >> = ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>=20 >> For the Latency and Relative Link Quality metrics, it seems like >> allowing their measurement methods to be implementation-dependent >> reduces their usefulness. If two different implementations calculate >> these in different ways, then the results may not be comparable. Are >> these not meant to be compared between different destination = implementations? >=20 > Yes, this is indeed a difficult issue. The underlying concept behind = DLEP is that modem implementers have their own low-level mechanisms for = measuring such things as latency, and exposing these metrics to the = routing layer rather than forcing the up layers to measure such things = can be useful. However, we didn't want to prescribe how a lower-layer = might calculate such metrics, as we couldn't see a 'one size fits all' = mechanism being useful. >=20 > When comparing metrics between destinations reported by a single = modem, it is considered a safe assumption that the metrics are sensibly = comparable. When comparing metrics reported between different modems, = it gets more complicated. For metrics such as latency, it's fairly well = understood what latency means. =20 I believe that, but as Mirja points out, the document doesn=E2=80=99t = specify whether what is being reported is an average or max or min over = some period of time. It seems like at least a little more detail could = be provided to make this one more useful.=20 > However, for Relative Link Quality, that is by design subjective, the = suggestion from DLEP is that this metric is most useful when used as a = modifier to other metrics, hence the second paragraph in Section 11.18 = and 11.19. Makes sense. That point is quite implicit in those two paragraphs, so it = may be worth stating it more explicitly as you do above. Thanks, Alissa >=20 > Hope that goes some way to explaining our rationale? >=20 > Regards, >=20 > Rick Taylor > The information contained within this e-mail and any files attached to = this e-mail is private and in addition may include commercially = sensitive information. The contents of this e-mail are for the intended = recipient only and therefore if you wish to disclose the information = contained within this e-mail or attached files, please contact the = sender prior to any such disclosure. >=20 > If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying or = distribution is prohibited. Please also contact the sender and inform = them of the error and delete the e-mail, including any attached files = from your system. >=20 > Emails to Airbus Defence and Space Limited may be processed, recorded = and monitored anywhere in the European Community. >=20 >=20 > Airbus Defence and Space Limited >=20 > Registered Office: Gunnels Wood Road, Stevenage, Hertfordshire, SG1 = 2AS. > Registered in England and Wales under company number 02449259. >=20 From nobody Thu Dec 15 06:39:29 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A66A0129FC1; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 06:39:21 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=fastmail.fm header.b=c4zoN2Ic; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=YcJMjU6L Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 39Tnwq_Jg3Na; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 06:39:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from out3-smtp.messagingengine.com (out3-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.27]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DD756129FB6; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 06:39:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from compute7.internal (compute7.nyi.internal [10.202.2.47]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DC4320828; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 09:39:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from web5 ([10.202.2.215]) by compute7.internal (MEProxy); Thu, 15 Dec 2016 09:39:10 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fastmail.fm; h=cc :content-transfer-encoding:content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-me-sender :x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=mesmtp; bh=5L0k4rQh+CdAdOk1Cn6IsUD0K/ E=; b=c4zoN2IcJNJMHPNsspVqyBwq5k3pxakdtfQSZwbeV7AYf3VT8m/NMXGuHc yuw62GV8fY9sDQwvaLCJJ7Va6sElvwIiGtZdbW/OlwNdAv7dWejpSLujSRxCZGYY p8FsS0qx8iSlFt5YJwZxGlKrlUCNMvI5WR1jnz84sfqye/DwY= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=smtpout; bh=5L 0k4rQh+CdAdOk1Cn6IsUD0K/E=; b=YcJMjU6LzWApk08PVr2XgwyDJGqEXNcx3s hj8HZMt8U+0Hcnmn9g8R0tX6wM3sn39s950ofzpifZ7/BHLWjvbA9mPVinZZlL22 cbym6aDJXTR1yRGMRNH7jfmxE0dXsH+u/ThMy2FIAqn3xBgEzz6NVSGu/rXID/Me Yoy+KqwcU= X-ME-Sender: Received: by mailuser.nyi.internal (Postfix, from userid 99) id 2D6686ABE7; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 09:39:10 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <1481812750.414535.820052825.22514754@webmail.messagingengine.com> From: Alexey Melnikov To: Mirja Kuehlewind , The IESG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface - ajax-f1319049 References: <148173557020.16832.1794865129983846438.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <148173557020.16832.1794865129983846438.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2016 14:39:10 +0000 Archived-At: Cc: manet-chairs@ietf.org, manet@ietf.org, draft-ietf-manet-dlep@ietf.org Subject: Re: [manet] =?utf-8?q?Mirja_K=C3=BChlewind=27s_Discuss_on_draft-ietf-?= =?utf-8?q?manet-dlep-26=3A_=28with_DISCUSS_and_COMMENT=29?= X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2016 14:39:22 -0000 Hi Mirja, On Wed, Dec 14, 2016, at 05:12 PM, Mirja Kuehlewind wrote: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > DISCUSS: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Am I missing something or does the doc not specify which policy/policies > should be used for registration of new values in these new registries? > (Also previously mentioned by the tsv-art reviewer - thx!) It is specified in the IANA registration tables. Maybe it can be made clearer. Best Regards, Alexey From nobody Thu Dec 15 06:39:43 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: manet@ietf.org Delivered-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B5A1129FE2; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 06:39:38 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Stephen Farrell" To: "The IESG" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.39.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <148181277830.27651.2048933448078334926.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2016 06:39:38 -0800 Archived-At: Cc: manet@ietf.org, draft-ietf-manet-dlep@ietf.org, manet-chairs@ietf.org Subject: [manet] Stephen Farrell's No Objection on draft-ietf-manet-dlep-26: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2016 14:39:38 -0000 Stephen Farrell has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-manet-dlep-26: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-manet-dlep/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - 5.1: Is a modem supposed to ignore peer discovery signals from routers with which the modem does not have a TCP connection? - 10.7: This says: "If the modem is capable of understanding and forwarding this information (via mechanisms not defined by DLEP)," I don't get why that's here, can you explain? If modem-modem comms is part of DLEP deployments (even if not fully spec'd) then that does change the security model. - 10.9 and elsewhere: none of these messages have anything like a cookie. Why not? That'd help mitigate potential off path attacks, where we currently depend solely on TTL=255 (and TLS, which seems to not be some people's favourite;-) - 11.8/9: are there any special addresses that MUST NOT occur here? E.g. ::1, 127.0.0.10? What about the addresses IANA allocates for you from 13.14/15? - 11.10/11: what does prefix=0 mean? - I agree with Alexey's DISCUSS#3, the TLS stuff needs more work to be usable. Maybe recommend PSK? From nobody Thu Dec 15 06:51:27 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C06E12965C for ; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 06:51:18 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.798 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.798 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-2.896, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9XbmevAeJ3PH for ; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 06:51:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from kuehlewind.net (kuehlewind.net [83.169.45.111]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 90C5512965A for ; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 06:51:15 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 13917 invoked from network); 15 Dec 2016 15:44:27 +0100 Received: from p5dec26d9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de (HELO ?192.168.178.33?) (93.236.38.217) by kuehlewind.net with ESMTPSA (DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA encrypted, authenticated); 15 Dec 2016 15:44:27 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.1 \(3251\)) From: "Mirja Kuehlewind (IETF)" In-Reply-To: <1481812750.414535.820052825.22514754@webmail.messagingengine.com> Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2016 15:44:27 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <785D99A9-2053-4111-87CD-B5F45CE39C78@kuehlewind.net> References: <148173557020.16832.1794865129983846438.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <1481812750.414535.820052825.22514754@webmail.messagingengine.com> To: Alexey Melnikov X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3251) Archived-At: Cc: manet-chairs@ietf.org, manet@ietf.org, draft-ietf-manet-dlep@ietf.org, The IESG Subject: Re: [manet] =?utf-8?q?Mirja_K=C3=BChlewind=27s_Discuss_on_draft-ietf-?= =?utf-8?q?manet-dlep-26=3A_=28with_DISCUSS_and_COMMENT=29?= X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2016 14:51:18 -0000 Ah, completely missed that. Yes, please make it clearer. Having it in = the tables is rather uncommon. Thanks! Clearing my discuss now! > Am 15.12.2016 um 15:39 schrieb Alexey Melnikov = : >=20 > Hi Mirja, >=20 > On Wed, Dec 14, 2016, at 05:12 PM, Mirja Kuehlewind wrote: >=20 >> = ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> DISCUSS: >> = ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>=20 >> Am I missing something or does the doc not specify which = policy/policies >> should be used for registration of new values in these new = registries? >> (Also previously mentioned by the tsv-art reviewer - thx!) >=20 > It is specified in the IANA registration tables. Maybe it can be made > clearer. >=20 > Best Regards, > Alexey >=20 From nobody Thu Dec 15 06:54:06 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9EDFE12965A; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 06:54:05 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.796 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.796 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-2.896] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hfQo1mGXyJbk; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 06:54:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DAFAB12963D; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 06:54:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.0.1.39] (cpe-66-25-7-22.tx.res.rr.com [66.25.7.22]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id uBFErwnx073648 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Thu, 15 Dec 2016 08:53:58 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from ben@nostrum.com) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host cpe-66-25-7-22.tx.res.rr.com [66.25.7.22] claimed to be [10.0.1.39] From: "Ben Campbell" To: "Henning Rogge" Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2016 08:53:58 -0600 Message-ID: <770ED361-BE84-4C10-918D-1A99C6D5EDC2@nostrum.com> In-Reply-To: References: <148167372944.10880.17965532160271098693.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-Mailer: MailMate (1.9.6r5310) Archived-At: Cc: draft-ietf-manet-dlep@ietf.org, MANET IETF , The IESG , manet-chairs@ietf.org Subject: Re: [manet] Ben Campbell's No Objection on draft-ietf-manet-dlep-26: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2016 14:54:05 -0000 On 15 Dec 2016, at 2:45, Henning Rogge wrote: > On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 5:31 PM, Ben Campbell wrote: >>> We (the co-authors) have received feedback from some radio vendors >>> stating >>> that a "MUST use TLS" in all cases would be a show-stopper. We see >>> deployments where a small number of devices co-exist on the LAN >>> segment - >>> for example, a router, a line-of-sight radio, a satellite terminal, >>> and a >>> small number of other devices. We're open to the construction you >>> suggest, >>> and will discuss it. >> >> Understood. That suggests there are reasons to not _use_ TLS other >> than the >> listed one, so "MUST unless" may not be what you want. Any thoughts >> on why >> TLS should not be mandatory to _implement_? > > I might exaggerate it a little bit but I think using TLS for DLEP is > at best a waste of time to implement. I have yet to hear about an > attacker model for a single hop DLEP connection (which is necessary > because otherwise the bridged datapath is broken!) which is not easily > dealt with MAC-layer security. > > At worst TLS will kill one of the most important aspects of DLEP, easy > integration and autodiscovery of radios by different vendors to any > kind of router. > > TLS also opens can of worms (additional questions). How is the DLEP > certificates be handled? Are there mandatory types of certificate > algorithms (if not, you break interoperability)? How do you secure the > UDP part of DLEP for discovery (DTLS?) ? How do you make sure that the > DTLS connection is to the same endpoint as the TLS connection? > > There is a LOT of work in this direction without any gain. IIRC, you are arguing against even the existing "SHOULD implement" requirement? When you talk about a single-hop connection, are you assuming a direct connection from the router to the modem, or that the router and modem are on the same LAN segment? Thanks! Ben. From nobody Thu Dec 15 06:58:57 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B72ED1296C9; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 06:58:55 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=fastmail.fm header.b=qmdGogHm; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=XufwVQxY Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id M8m9iZmM13PS; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 06:58:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from out3-smtp.messagingengine.com (out3-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.27]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0E3741296C1; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 06:58:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from compute7.internal (compute7.nyi.internal [10.202.2.47]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B94B20768; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 09:58:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from web5 ([10.202.2.215]) by compute7.internal (MEProxy); Thu, 15 Dec 2016 09:58:37 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fastmail.fm; h=cc :content-transfer-encoding:content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-me-sender :x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=mesmtp; bh=pkAHtJNa3iDLQkkVePZrTiJ+qz w=; b=qmdGogHmU6gY0/e3LiXR66wEgm6lghEEJafenIIYnhQQxyZcTtqQ52rynG QLwEEF1dwRkCFHC7wYf8XoVX/mEGOhxxRPw34I6d6buLOzu9xnC1lgQcQOqtUufo 85bIyaFLPMDEFn3cZRpEtQce3HOz4BgAM0t09kGVeU3fPUQ74= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=smtpout; bh=pk AHtJNa3iDLQkkVePZrTiJ+qzw=; b=XufwVQxYYToLOMl3gO9Mwded61if3GSMRA GG6ZiI4DnT91pvncAoCBWektBuoUhyeEtAS9XQvRgf2alWB+anDFpoacnK5+Aezp e7pCkLISovOLFaAWzRdBWeHntGfPiPpfuYBgjGwckJ0xajmOyG91lp6/YvAUb644 w+wffif9M= X-ME-Sender: Received: by mailuser.nyi.internal (Postfix, from userid 99) id 4E2F76ABE7; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 09:58:37 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <1481813917.419436.820073297.68E45D5D@webmail.messagingengine.com> From: Alexey Melnikov To: Henning Rogge MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface - ajax-f1319049 In-Reply-To: References: <148156334986.22491.1152871712874859894.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <79D48CEB-2CFC-43A8-8D01-5C5CB1778966@fastmail.fm> <9B802ACF-84EF-4C47-92F8-122CA724C71A@fastmail.fm> Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2016 14:58:37 +0000 Archived-At: Cc: draft-ietf-manet-dlep@ietf.org, MANET IETF , The IESG , manet-chairs@ietf.org Subject: Re: [manet] Alexey Melnikov's Discuss on draft-ietf-manet-dlep-26: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2016 14:58:56 -0000 On Thu, Dec 15, 2016, at 09:21 AM, Henning Rogge wrote: > On Thu, Dec 15, 2016 at 10:23 AM, Alexey Melnikov > wrote: > > Hi, > > > >> On 15 Dec 2016, at 08:59, Henning Rogge wrote: > >> > >> On Tue, Dec 13, 2016 at 11:11 AM, Alexey Melnikov > >> wrote: > >>> Hi Stan, > >>> > >>> All your answers look good to me. But I think credential validation might need a bit more thought/discussion in the WG. Maybe you can specify how preconfigured IP or MAC addresses can be checked in X.509 certificates? (Just an idea, not necessarily saying that it is the right or the only way of doing this) > >> > >> I raised the point of the certificate problem ages ago as an argument > >> to DROP TLS from DLEP completely. > > > > Even unauthenticated TLS is better than no TLS, so I would rather the document continues to recommend it. > > What kind of security does unauthenticated TLS provide against an > attacker that sits on your local LAN segment? I am not really concerned about that, but I am concerned about VPN or virtualized environment where router is across the globe from the modem. > Its not that DLEP carry > any "secret" data... That is the question really. If the date is exposed outside of LAN, does it contain no sensitive information? > I have spoken with a few radio vendors and from what I got none of > them considers to implement TLS. Nobody sees any advantage of it, but > everyone sees a huge cost. Cost in terms of performance (Flow control > is delay dependent), cost in terms of complexity, costs in terms of > interoperability. > > Henning Rogge From nobody Thu Dec 15 06:59:28 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDDE21296C9; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 06:59:26 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.797 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.797 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-2.896, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wtGskkVpV0HY; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 06:59:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tropicalstormsoftware.com (mail.tropicalstormsoftware.com [188.94.42.120]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 25212129FA4; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 06:59:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from tss-server1.home.tropicalstormsoftware.com ([fe80::753b:fa82:5c0:af0d]) by tss-server1.home.tropicalstormsoftware.com ([fe80::753b:fa82:5c0:af0d%10]) with mapi; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 14:58:19 +0000 From: Rick Taylor To: "ben@nostrum.com" , "hrogge@gmail.com" Thread-Topic: [manet] Ben Campbell's No Objection on draft-ietf-manet-dlep-26: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHSVZ1UhsyOQarrJkGfk1iUDwr8gqEGpssAgAD9IACAARANAIAAZu4AgAABQIA= Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2016 14:58:27 +0000 Message-ID: <1481813907.2566.16.camel@tropicalstormsoftware.com> References: <148167372944.10880.17965532160271098693.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <770ED361-BE84-4C10-918D-1A99C6D5EDC2@nostrum.com> In-Reply-To: <770ED361-BE84-4C10-918D-1A99C6D5EDC2@nostrum.com> Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <885953cc-399c-404e-8b30-677280e8cf88> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "manet@ietf.org" , "iesg@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-manet-dlep@ietf.org" , "manet-chairs@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [manet] Ben Campbell's No Objection on draft-ietf-manet-dlep-26: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2016 14:59:27 -0000 T24gVGh1LCAyMDE2LTEyLTE1IGF0IDA4OjUzIC0wNjAwLCBCZW4gQ2FtcGJlbGwgd3JvdGU6DQo+ IE9uIDE1IERlYyAyMDE2LCBhdCAyOjQ1LCBIZW5uaW5nIFJvZ2dlIHdyb3RlOg0KPiANCj4gPiAN Cj4gPiBPbiBXZWQsIERlYyAxNCwgMjAxNiBhdCA1OjMxIFBNLCBCZW4gQ2FtcGJlbGwgPGJlbkBu b3N0cnVtLmNvbT4NCj4gPiB3cm90ZToNCj4gPiA+IA0KPiA+ID4gPiANCj4gPiA+ID4gV2UgKHRo ZSBjby1hdXRob3JzKSBoYXZlIHJlY2VpdmVkIGZlZWRiYWNrIGZyb20gc29tZSByYWRpbw0KPiA+ 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ZW5zdXMgaXMgdGhhdCAnTVVTVCcgd2lsbCBub3Qgd29yayBmb3INCmltcGxlbWVudGVycy4NCg0K Umljaw0K From nobody Thu Dec 15 07:03:36 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A48D81296C0; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 07:03:27 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7.197 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.197 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-2.896, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cs.tcd.ie Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xQFHzqRdwVVi; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 07:03:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [134.226.56.6]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A5F7C1299E8; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 07:02:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FDBCBE5F; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 15:02:55 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at scss.tcd.ie Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Dia7I9jGJTC4; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 15:02:49 +0000 (GMT) Received: from [10.87.48.210] (95-45-153-252-dynamic.agg2.phb.bdt-fng.eircom.net [95.45.153.252]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3C058BE5C; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 15:02:49 +0000 (GMT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cs.tcd.ie; s=mail; t=1481814169; bh=3a9HtbU2jeYBRQhrwwZXbIOqj5PQpw24qLHAby9/p8g=; h=Subject:To:References:Cc:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=RJC/PHPxIJEXlf09zx+J0m78m0RFX3p4PI4MSIyTNfXnfT8i3ST8PpyIBwrZEtHjI ILqX+nWWyR+GBZtr2ioZwOYZ2CY7eQHPbsieXH3PL1AibRkTwrzXKz0SBjjWN0nmvR 9m/+7pnrvr0HogbAdwPf3rvdPnCpOczCEAsI99Es= To: Alexey Melnikov , Henning Rogge References: <148156334986.22491.1152871712874859894.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <79D48CEB-2CFC-43A8-8D01-5C5CB1778966@fastmail.fm> <9B802ACF-84EF-4C47-92F8-122CA724C71A@fastmail.fm> <1481813917.419436.820073297.68E45D5D@webmail.messagingengine.com> From: Stephen Farrell Openpgp: id=D66EA7906F0B897FB2E97D582F3C8736805F8DA2; url= Message-ID: <4f81336b-b9be-2891-f502-90cae6955e56@cs.tcd.ie> Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2016 15:02:49 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.5.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <1481813917.419436.820073297.68E45D5D@webmail.messagingengine.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha-256; boundary="------------ms050307050204020002050806" Archived-At: Cc: MANET IETF , The IESG , draft-ietf-manet-dlep@ietf.org, manet-chairs@ietf.org Subject: Re: [manet] Alexey Melnikov's Discuss on draft-ietf-manet-dlep-26: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2016 15:03:28 -0000 This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms050307050204020002050806 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 15/12/16 14:58, Alexey Melnikov wrote: > That is the question really. If the date is exposed outside of LAN, doe= s > it contain no sensitive information? >=20 If someone can tell a router that AA.BB/16 is connected "here" then that'd I guess cause the router to send packets to that interface that'd otherwise go out the default. Seems like that could be the basis for some attacks, wouldn't it? 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at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.796 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.796 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-2.896] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XB4Xuftz1EQZ; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 07:08:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6BA66129654; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 07:08:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.0.1.39] (cpe-66-25-7-22.tx.res.rr.com [66.25.7.22]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id uBFF86Ft075155 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Thu, 15 Dec 2016 09:08:06 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from ben@nostrum.com) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host cpe-66-25-7-22.tx.res.rr.com [66.25.7.22] claimed to be [10.0.1.39] From: "Ben Campbell" To: "Rick Taylor" Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2016 09:07:54 -0600 Message-ID: <51386411-8457-43F1-A081-86290630E762@nostrum.com> In-Reply-To: <1481813907.2566.16.camel@tropicalstormsoftware.com> References: <148167372944.10880.17965532160271098693.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <770ED361-BE84-4C10-918D-1A99C6D5EDC2@nostrum.com> <1481813907.2566.16.camel@tropicalstormsoftware.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: MailMate (1.9.6r5310) Archived-At: Cc: "manet@ietf.org" , "iesg@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-manet-dlep@ietf.org" , "manet-chairs@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [manet] Ben Campbell's No Objection on draft-ietf-manet-dlep-26: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2016 15:08:13 -0000 On 15 Dec 2016, at 8:58, Rick Taylor wrote: > On Thu, 2016-12-15 at 08:53 -0600, Ben Campbell wrote: >> On 15 Dec 2016, at 2:45, Henning Rogge wrote: >> >>> >>> On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 5:31 PM, Ben Campbell >>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> We (the co-authors) have received feedback from some radio >>>>> vendors  >>>>> stating >>>>> that a "MUST use TLS" in all cases would be a show-stopper. We >>>>> see >>>>> deployments where a small number of devices co-exist on the >>>>> LAN  >>>>> segment - >>>>> for example, a router, a line-of-sight radio, a satellite >>>>> terminal,  >>>>> and a >>>>> small number of other devices. We're open to the construction >>>>> you  >>>>> suggest, >>>>> and will discuss it. >>>> Understood. That suggests there are reasons to not _use_ TLS >>>> other  >>>> than the >>>> listed one, so "MUST unless" may not be what you want.  Any >>>> thoughts  >>>> on why >>>> TLS should not be mandatory to _implement_? >>> I might exaggerate it a little bit but I think using TLS for DLEP >>> is >>> at best a waste of time to implement. I have yet to hear about an >>> attacker model for a single hop DLEP connection (which is necessary >>> because otherwise the bridged datapath is broken!) which is not >>> easily >>> dealt with MAC-layer security. >>> >>> At worst TLS will kill one of the most important aspects of DLEP, >>> easy >>> integration and autodiscovery of radios by different vendors to any >>> kind of router. >>> >>> TLS also opens  can of worms (additional questions). How is the >>> DLEP >>> certificates be handled? Are there mandatory types of certificate >>> algorithms (if not, you break interoperability)? How do you secure >>> the >>> UDP part of DLEP for discovery (DTLS?) ? How do you make sure that >>> the >>> DTLS connection is to the same endpoint as the TLS connection? >>> >>> There is a LOT of work in this direction without any gain. >> IIRC, you are arguing against even the existing "SHOULD implement"  >> requirement? >> >> When you talk about a single-hop connection, are you assuming a >> direct  >> connection from the router to the modem, or that the router and >> modem  >> are on the same LAN segment? > > Most of the discussed use-cases where TLS is viewed as unnecessary are > direct connections, but some are single-hop with an 'externally > secured > perimeter'. > > The authors are happy with 'SHOULD' if it removes any blocks from the > IESG, and the WG consensus is that 'MUST' will not work for > implementers. Am I hearing that this is one of those proverbial "SHOULD BUT WE KNOW YOU WON'T" requirements :-) > > Rick From nobody Thu Dec 15 07:12:51 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B137128824; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 07:12:44 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.797 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.797 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-2.896, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZpyssmXFsvg1; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 07:12:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tropicalstormsoftware.com (mail.tropicalstormsoftware.com [188.94.42.120]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 483C61296BA; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 07:12:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from tss-server1.home.tropicalstormsoftware.com ([fe80::753b:fa82:5c0:af0d]) by tss-server1.home.tropicalstormsoftware.com ([fe80::753b:fa82:5c0:af0d%10]) with mapi; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 15:11:58 +0000 From: Rick Taylor To: "stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie" , "iesg@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [manet] Stephen Farrell's No Objection on draft-ietf-manet-dlep-26: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHSVuEV2xKR6DgxZUyi+iOOn4GycaEJHXsA Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2016 15:12:16 +0000 Message-ID: <1481814736.2566.27.camel@tropicalstormsoftware.com> References: <148181277830.27651.2048933448078334926.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <148181277830.27651.2048933448078334926.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "manet@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-manet-dlep@ietf.org" , "manet-chairs@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [manet] Stephen Farrell's No Objection on draft-ietf-manet-dlep-26: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2016 15:12:44 -0000 SGkgU3RlcGhlbiwNCg0KVGhhbmtzIGZvciB0aGUgY29tbWVudHMsIHNvbWUgYW5zd2VycyBpbmxp bmUuLi4NCg0KT24gVGh1LCAyMDE2LTEyLTE1IGF0IDA2OjM5IC0wODAwLCBTdGVwaGVuIEZhcnJl bGwgd3JvdGU6DQo+IFN0ZXBoZW4gRmFycmVsbCBoYXMgZW50ZXJlZCB0aGUgZm9sbG93aW5nIGJh bGxvdCBwb3NpdGlvbiBmb3INCj4gZHJhZnQtaWV0Zi1tYW5ldC1kbGVwLTI2OiBObyBPYmplY3Rp b24NCj4gDQo+IC0gNS4xOiBJcyBhIG1vZGVtIHN1cHBvc2VkIHRvIGlnbm9yZSBwZWVyIGRpc2Nv dmVyeQ0KPiBzaWduYWxzIGZyb20gcm91dGVycyB3aXRoIHdoaWNoIHRoZSBtb2RlbSBkb2VzIG5v dCBoYXZlIGENCj4gVENQIGNvbm5lY3Rpb24/DQoNClBlZXIgRGlzY292ZXJ5IGlzIGEgVURQLWJh c2VkIG1lY2hhbmlzbSB0aGF0IGlzIGRlc2lnbmVkIHRvIHJ1biBiZWZvcmUNCmEgVENQLWJhc2Vk IHNlc3Npb24gaXMgZXN0YWJsaXNoZWQsIG11Y2ggbGlrZSBVUG5QIG9yIG1ETlMuDQoNCj4gDQo+ IC0gMTAuNzogVGhpcyBzYXlzOiAiSWYgdGhlIG1vZGVtIGlzIGNhcGFibGUgb2YNCj4gdW5kZXJz dGFuZGluZyBhbmQgZm9yd2FyZGluZyB0aGlzIGluZm9ybWF0aW9uICh2aWENCj4gbWVjaGFuaXNt cyBub3QgZGVmaW5lZCBieSBETEVQKSwiIEkgZG9uJ3QgZ2V0IHdoeSB0aGF0J3MNCj4gaGVyZSwg Y2FuIHlvdSBleHBsYWluPyBJZiBtb2RlbS1tb2RlbSBjb21tcyBpcyBwYXJ0IG9mDQo+IERMRVAg ZGVwbG95bWVudHMgKGV2ZW4gaWYgbm90IGZ1bGx5IHNwZWMnZCkgdGhlbiB0aGF0IGRvZXMNCj4g Y2hhbmdlIHRoZSBzZWN1cml0eSBtb2RlbC4NCg0KRExFUCBvbmx5IGRlZmluZXMgdGhlIGNvbnZl cnNhdGlvbiBiZXR3ZWVuIGEgbG9jYWwgcm91dGVyL21vZGVtIHBhaXIuDQrCoEhvdyBvciB3aGF0 IGEgbW9kZW0gc2VuZHMgb3ZlciB0aGUgYWlyIHRvIGFub3RoZXIgbW9kZW0gaXMNCmludGVudGlv bmFsbHkgb3V0IG9mIHNjb3BlLg0KDQo+IA0KPiAtIDEwLjkgYW5kIGVsc2V3aGVyZTogbm9uZSBv ZiB0aGVzZSBtZXNzYWdlcyBoYXZlIGFueXRoaW5nDQo+IGxpa2UgYSBjb29raWUuIFdoeSBub3Q/ IFRoYXQnZCBoZWxwIG1pdGlnYXRlIHBvdGVudGlhbCBvZmYNCj4gcGF0aCBhdHRhY2tzLCB3aGVy ZSB3ZSBjdXJyZW50bHkgZGVwZW5kIHNvbGVseSBvbiBUVEw9MjU1DQo+IChhbmQgVExTLCB3aGlj aCBzZWVtcyB0byBub3QgYmUgc29tZSBwZW9wbGUncyBmYXZvdXJpdGU7LSkNCg0KVG8gYmUgZnJh bmsgLSB3ZSBuZXZlciBjb25zaWRlcmVkIGEgY29va2llIGFzIGEgc2VjdXJpdHkgbWVjaGFuaXNt Lg0KwqBQZXJzb25hbGx5IEkgY29uc2lkZXJlZCBhbiBhdHRhY2tlciBjYXBhYmxlIG9mIHN1Y2Nl c3NmdWxseSBpbmplY3RpbmcNCm9jdGV0cyBpbnRvIGFuIGV4aXN0aW5nIFRDUCBzdHJlYW0gd291 bGQgcHJvYmFibHkgYmUgYWJsZSB0byBoaWphY2sgYQ0KY29va2llIG1lY2hhbmlzbS4NCg0KSG93 ZXZlciwgSSBhbSBub3QgYSBzZWN1cml0eSBleHBlcnQsIGFuZCBpZiB0aGlzIGlzIGEgdmlhYmxl DQphbHRlcm5hdGl2ZSB0byBUTFMgKHdoaWNoIGlzIHVucG9wdWxhciB3aXRoIGltcGxlbWVudGVy cywgYW5kIGhhcyBvcGVuDQpxdWVzdGlvbnMgb3ZlciBjZXJ0aWZpY2F0aW9uKSB0aGVuIGl0IGlz IGRlZmluaXRlbHkgc29tZXRoaW5nIHRoYXQNCnNob3VsZCBiZSBjb25zaWRlcmVkLg0KDQo+IA0K PiAtIDExLjgvOTogYXJlIHRoZXJlIGFueSBzcGVjaWFsIGFkZHJlc3NlcyB0aGF0IE1VU1QgTk9U DQo+IG9jY3VyIGhlcmU/IEUuZy4gOjoxLCAxMjcuMC4wLjEwPyBXaGF0IGFib3V0IHRoZSBhZGRy ZXNzZXMNCj4gSUFOQSBhbGxvY2F0ZXMgZm9yIHlvdSBmcm9tIDEzLjE0LzE1Pw0KDQpGcm9tIGEg RExFUCBwZXJzcGVjdGl2ZSwgbm8gZGVzdGluYXRpb24gYWRkcmVzcyBvciBzdWJuZXQgaXMNCnBy b2hpYml0dGVkLiDCoE9idmlvdXNseSBhIHVzZXIgY2FuIGNvbmZpZ3VyZSB0aGVpciBuZXR3b3Jr IHN0dXBpZGx5IGFuZA0KdGhlbiBpdCB3b250IHdvcmssIGJ1dCBmcm9tIGEgZnVuY3Rpb25hbCBw ZXJzcGVjdGl2ZSwgRExFUCBkb2Vzbid0DQpjYXJlLiDCoEFuZCBpdCBkb2Vzbid0IGFkZCBhbnkg ZnVydGhlciByZXN0cmljdGlvbiBvbiBhZGRyZXNzZXMgYmV5b25kDQp0aGUgcmVndWxhciBJUHY0 LzYgcnVsZXMuDQoNCj4gDQo+IC0gMTEuMTAvMTE6IHdoYXQgZG9lcyBwcmVmaXg9MCBtZWFuPw0K DQpQcmVmaXggMCB3YXMgbGVmdCBpbiB0byBhbGxvdyBhbm5vdW5jZW1lbnQgb2YgYSBkZWZhdWx0 IHJvdXRlLg0KDQo+IA0KPiAtIEkgYWdyZWUgd2l0aCBBbGV4ZXkncyBESVNDVVNTIzMsIHRoZSBU TFMgc3R1ZmYgbmVlZHMNCj4gbW9yZSB3b3JrIHRvIGJlIHVzYWJsZS4gTWF5YmUgcmVjb21tZW5k IFBTSz8NCg0KTm9uZSBvZiB0aGUgYXV0aG9ycyBhcmUgc2VsZi1jb25mZXNzZWQgc2VjdXJpdHkg ZXhwZXJ0cywgYW5kIHdlIGRvIG5lZWQNCmFkdmljZSBoZXJlLg0KDQpUaGFua3MsDQoNClJpY2s= From nobody Thu Dec 15 07:15:10 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 042A71296BF; 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Thu, 15 Dec 2016 07:15:04 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.237.38.161 with HTTP; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 07:14:34 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <770ED361-BE84-4C10-918D-1A99C6D5EDC2@nostrum.com> References: <148167372944.10880.17965532160271098693.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <770ED361-BE84-4C10-918D-1A99C6D5EDC2@nostrum.com> From: Henning Rogge Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2016 16:14:34 +0100 Message-ID: To: Ben Campbell Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: Cc: draft-ietf-manet-dlep@ietf.org, MANET IETF , The IESG , manet-chairs@ietf.org Subject: Re: [manet] Ben Campbell's No Objection on draft-ietf-manet-dlep-26: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2016 15:15:08 -0000 On Thu, Dec 15, 2016 at 3:53 PM, Ben Campbell wrote: > On 15 Dec 2016, at 2:45, Henning Rogge wrote: > >> On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 5:31 PM, Ben Campbell wrote: >>>> >>>> We (the co-authors) have received feedback from some radio vendors >>>> stating >>>> that a "MUST use TLS" in all cases would be a show-stopper. We see >>>> deployments where a small number of devices co-exist on the LAN segment >>>> - >>>> for example, a router, a line-of-sight radio, a satellite terminal, and >>>> a >>>> small number of other devices. We're open to the construction you >>>> suggest, >>>> and will discuss it. >>> >>> >>> Understood. That suggests there are reasons to not _use_ TLS other than >>> the >>> listed one, so "MUST unless" may not be what you want. Any thoughts on >>> why >>> TLS should not be mandatory to _implement_? >> >> >> I might exaggerate it a little bit but I think using TLS for DLEP is >> at best a waste of time to implement. I have yet to hear about an >> attacker model for a single hop DLEP connection (which is necessary >> because otherwise the bridged datapath is broken!) which is not easily >> dealt with MAC-layer security. >> >> At worst TLS will kill one of the most important aspects of DLEP, easy >> integration and autodiscovery of radios by different vendors to any >> kind of router. >> >> TLS also opens can of worms (additional questions). How is the DLEP >> certificates be handled? Are there mandatory types of certificate >> algorithms (if not, you break interoperability)? How do you secure the >> UDP part of DLEP for discovery (DTLS?) ? How do you make sure that the >> DTLS connection is to the same endpoint as the TLS connection? >> >> There is a LOT of work in this direction without any gain. > > > IIRC, you are arguing against even the existing "SHOULD implement" > requirement? I am trying to provide a "strong agree" with Stan Ratliff's opinion that any move towards "MUST unless X" or similar is counterproductive. > When you talk about a single-hop connection, are you assuming a direct > connection from the router to the modem, or that the router and modem are on > the same LAN segment? I have seen two (and thought about a third) different kind of deployments for DLEP... we also had (at Fraunhofer FKIE) discussions with a few military radio vendors how they could use DLEP and they also fit into these three scenarios. 1.) a direct ethernet (point to point) cable between the radio and the router. 2.) a router connected with a switch using VLAN to configure a direct (point to point) connection to the radio connected to the switch. 3.) a layer2 tunnel between router and radio, allowing to span some intermediate network between radio and router the third point was discussed in a scenario with a "multi-router emulator" based on VM technology connected to real radios, but never really deployed. DLEP provides a router with knowledge about an interface and the neighbors behind it. If you provide a three-way layer-2 connection between a radio, a router and some third device you instantly break the view DLEP will deliver because the "whole interface metrics" DLEP deliver don't apply anymore to the whole interface. Things get even worse when you want to do flow control in the router and suddenly have neighbors DLEP does not tell you about, most likely your routing functionality will break in a creative way. You cannot even switch two DLEP radios together on the same layer-2 segment, connect them to a router and expect the whole thing to work. Now you have two radio interfaces and a router who cannot differentiate between them, because you can only sent your (linklocal-) Multicast to either both of them or don't send at all. so yes... "single hop" is most likely a dedicated point-2-point cable or a VLAN simulation of the same. > Am I hearing that this is one of those proverbial "SHOULD BUT WE KNOW YOU > WON'T" requirements :-) I would expect making it "RECOMMENDED" or "MUST unless" would result in a lot of semi-tested bitrotting code nobody is using. Or maybe a "does not support TLS" note in the manual. Henning Rogge From nobody Thu Dec 15 07:16:36 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE3921296E1; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 07:16:28 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.797 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.797 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-2.896, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tMQTrXdc4z3r; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 07:16:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tropicalstormsoftware.com (mail.tropicalstormsoftware.com [188.94.42.120]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CB0DB129645; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 07:15:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from tss-server1.home.tropicalstormsoftware.com ([fe80::753b:fa82:5c0:af0d]) by tss-server1.home.tropicalstormsoftware.com ([fe80::753b:fa82:5c0:af0d%10]) with mapi; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 15:15:08 +0000 From: Rick Taylor To: "aamelnikov@fastmail.fm" , "hrogge@gmail.com" Thread-Topic: [manet] Alexey Melnikov's Discuss on draft-ietf-manet-dlep-26: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHSVJxQuXSWkPgmk0meQl1pSW0OMqEFJscAgACCnYCAAxBmgIAABtAA////dgCAAF4kgIAABLSA Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2016 15:15:27 +0000 Message-ID: <1481814927.2566.30.camel@tropicalstormsoftware.com> References: <148156334986.22491.1152871712874859894.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <79D48CEB-2CFC-43A8-8D01-5C5CB1778966@fastmail.fm> <9B802ACF-84EF-4C47-92F8-122CA724C71A@fastmail.fm> <1481813917.419436.820073297.68E45D5D@webmail.messagingengine.com> In-Reply-To: <1481813917.419436.820073297.68E45D5D@webmail.messagingengine.com> Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "manet@ietf.org" , "iesg@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-manet-dlep@ietf.org" , "manet-chairs@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [manet] Alexey Melnikov's Discuss on draft-ietf-manet-dlep-26: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2016 15:16:29 -0000 T24gVGh1LCAyMDE2LTEyLTE1IGF0IDE0OjU4ICswMDAwLCBBbGV4ZXkgTWVsbmlrb3Ygd3JvdGU6 DQo+IE9uIFRodSwgRGVjIDE1LCAyMDE2LCBhdCAwOToyMSBBTSwgSGVubmluZyBSb2dnZSB3cm90 ZToNCj4gPiANCj4gPiBPbiBUaHUsIERlYyAxNSwgMjAxNiBhdCAxMDoyMyBBTSwgQWxleGV5IE1l bG5pa292DQo+ID4gPGFhbWVsbmlrb3ZAZmFzdG1haWwuZm0+IHdyb3RlOg0KPiA+ID4gDQo+ID4g PiBIaSwNCj4gPiA+IA0KPiA+ID4gPiANCj4gPiA+ID4gT24gMTUgRGVjIDIwMTYsIGF0IDA4OjU5 LCBIZW5uaW5nIFJvZ2dlIDxocm9nZ2VAZ21haWwuY29tPg0KPiA+ID4gPiB3cm90ZToNCj4gPiA+ ID4gDQo+ID4gPiA+IE9uIFR1ZSwgRGVjIDEzLCAyMDE2IGF0IDExOjExIEFNLCBBbGV4ZXkgTWVs bmlrb3YNCj4gPiA+ID4gPGFhbWVsbmlrb3ZAZmFzdG1haWwuZm0+IHdyb3RlOg0KPiA+ID4gPiA+ IA0KPiA+ID4gPiA+IEhpIFN0YW4sDQo+ID4gPiA+ID4gDQo+ID4gPiA+ID4gQWxsIHlvdXIgYW5z d2VycyBsb29rIGdvb2QgdG8gbWUuIEJ1dCBJIHRoaW5rIGNyZWRlbnRpYWwNCj4gPiA+ID4gPiB2 YWxpZGF0aW9uIG1pZ2h0IG5lZWQgYSBiaXQgbW9yZSB0aG91Z2h0L2Rpc2N1c3Npb24gaW4gdGhl DQo+ID4gPiA+ID4gV0cuIE1heWJlIHlvdSBjYW4gc3BlY2lmeSBob3cgcHJlY29uZmlndXJlZCBJ UCBvciBNQUMNCj4gPiA+ID4gPiBhZGRyZXNzZXMgY2FuIGJlIGNoZWNrZWQgaW4gWC41MDkgY2Vy dGlmaWNhdGVzPyAoSnVzdCBhbg0KPiA+ID4gPiA+IGlkZWEsIG5vdCBuZWNlc3NhcmlseSBzYXlp bmcgdGhhdCBpdCBpcyB0aGUgcmlnaHQgb3IgdGhlIG9ubHkNCj4gPiA+ID4gPiB3YXkgb2YgZG9p bmcgdGhpcykNCj4gPiA+ID4gSSByYWlzZWQgdGhlIHBvaW50IG9mIHRoZSBjZXJ0aWZpY2F0ZSBw cm9ibGVtIGFnZXMgYWdvIGFzIGFuDQo+ID4gPiA+IGFyZ3VtZW50DQo+ID4gPiA+IHRvIERST1Ag VExTIGZyb20gRExFUCBjb21wbGV0ZWx5Lg0KPiA+ID4gRXZlbiB1bmF1dGhlbnRpY2F0ZWQgVExT IGlzIGJldHRlciB0aGFuIG5vIFRMUywgc28gSSB3b3VsZCByYXRoZXINCj4gPiA+IHRoZSBkb2N1 bWVudCBjb250aW51ZXMgdG8gcmVjb21tZW5kIGl0Lg0KPiA+IFdoYXQga2luZCBvZiBzZWN1cml0 eSBkb2VzIHVuYXV0aGVudGljYXRlZCBUTFMgcHJvdmlkZSBhZ2FpbnN0IGFuDQo+ID4gYXR0YWNr ZXIgdGhhdCBzaXRzIG9uIHlvdXIgbG9jYWwgTEFOIHNlZ21lbnQ/DQo+IEkgYW0gbm90IHJlYWxs eSBjb25jZXJuZWQgYWJvdXQgdGhhdCwgYnV0IEkgYW0gY29uY2VybmVkIGFib3V0IFZQTiBvcg0K PiB2aXJ0dWFsaXplZCBlbnZpcm9ubWVudCB3aGVyZSByb3V0ZXIgaXMgYWNyb3NzIHRoZSBnbG9i ZSBmcm9tIHRoZQ0KPiBtb2RlbS4NCg0KVGhpcyB3YXMgd2h5IHdlIHB1dCBpbiB0aGUgdGV4dCBp biB0aGUgc2VjdXJpdHkgY29uc2lkZXJhdGlvbnMgc3RhdGluZw0KdGhhdCB0aG9zZSBlbnZpcm9u bWVudHMgbmVlZCBhbGwgc2VjdXJpdHkgcHJvdmlkZWQgYnkgd2hhdGV2ZXIgTGF5ZXItMg0KdHVu bmVsbGluZyBwcm90b2NvbHMgYXJlIHVzZWQuIMKgSG93ZXZlciwgd2UgaGFkIHNldmVyYWwgZGlz Y3VzcydzDQpzdWdnZXN0aW5nIHRoYXQgdGhpcyB3YXNuJ3QgZW5vdWdoLi4uDQoNCj4gDQo+ID4g DQo+ID4gSXRzIG5vdCB0aGF0IERMRVAgY2FycnkNCj4gPiBhbnkgInNlY3JldCIgZGF0YS4uLg0K PiBUaGF0IGlzIHRoZSBxdWVzdGlvbiByZWFsbHkuIElmIHRoZSBkYXRlIGlzIGV4cG9zZWQgb3V0 c2lkZSBvZiBMQU4sDQo+IGRvZXMNCj4gaXQgY29udGFpbiBubyBzZW5zaXRpdmUgaW5mb3JtYXRp b24/DQo+ID4gSSBoYXZlIHNwb2tlbiB3aXRoIGEgZmV3IHJhZGlvIHZlbmRvcnMgYW5kIGZyb20g d2hhdCBJIGdvdCBub25lIG9mDQo+ID4gdGhlbSBjb25zaWRlcnMgdG8gaW1wbGVtZW50IFRMUy4g Tm9ib2R5IHNlZXMgYW55IGFkdmFudGFnZSBvZiBpdCwNCj4gPiBidXQNCj4gPiBldmVyeW9uZSBz ZWVzIGEgaHVnZSBjb3N0LiBDb3N0IGluIHRlcm1zIG9mIHBlcmZvcm1hbmNlIChGbG93DQo+ID4g Y29udHJvbA0KPiA+IGlzIGRlbGF5IGRlcGVuZGVudCksIGNvc3QgaW4gdGVybXMgb2YgY29tcGxl eGl0eSwgY29zdHMgaW4gdGVybXMgb2YNCj4gPiBpbnRlcm9wZXJhYmlsaXR5Lg0KPiA+IA0KPiA+ IEhlbm5pbmcgUm9nZ2UNCj4gX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX18NCj4gbWFuZXQgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQo+IG1hbmV0QGlldGYub3JnDQo+IGh0dHBz Oi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vbWFuZXQ= From nobody Thu Dec 15 07:17:21 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13174129875; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 07:17:14 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.797 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.797 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-2.896, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oMWvbxDfi9tH; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 07:17:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tropicalstormsoftware.com (mail.tropicalstormsoftware.com [188.94.42.120]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B09E9129FF7; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 07:16:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from tss-server1.home.tropicalstormsoftware.com ([fe80::753b:fa82:5c0:af0d]) by tss-server1.home.tropicalstormsoftware.com ([fe80::753b:fa82:5c0:af0d%10]) with mapi; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 15:15:50 +0000 From: Rick Taylor To: "stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie" , "aamelnikov@fastmail.fm" , "hrogge@gmail.com" Thread-Topic: [manet] Alexey Melnikov's Discuss on draft-ietf-manet-dlep-26: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHSVJxQuXSWkPgmk0meQl1pSW0OMqEFJscAgACCnYCAAxBmgIAABtAA////dgCAAF4kgIAAAS2AgAADuYA= Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2016 15:16:09 +0000 Message-ID: <1481814969.2566.31.camel@tropicalstormsoftware.com> References: <148156334986.22491.1152871712874859894.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <79D48CEB-2CFC-43A8-8D01-5C5CB1778966@fastmail.fm> <9B802ACF-84EF-4C47-92F8-122CA724C71A@fastmail.fm> <1481813917.419436.820073297.68E45D5D@webmail.messagingengine.com> <4f81336b-b9be-2891-f502-90cae6955e56@cs.tcd.ie> In-Reply-To: <4f81336b-b9be-2891-f502-90cae6955e56@cs.tcd.ie> Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <4c93b861-d41b-4bc1-99ab-c895f23716ec> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "manet@ietf.org" , "iesg@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-manet-dlep@ietf.org" , "manet-chairs@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [manet] Alexey Melnikov's Discuss on draft-ietf-manet-dlep-26: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2016 15:17:14 -0000 T24gVGh1LCAyMDE2LTEyLTE1IGF0IDE1OjAyICswMDAwLCBTdGVwaGVuIEZhcnJlbGwgd3JvdGU6 DQo+IA0KPiBPbiAxNS8xMi8xNiAxNDo1OCwgQWxleGV5IE1lbG5pa292IHdyb3RlOg0KPiA+IA0K PiA+IFRoYXQgaXMgdGhlIHF1ZXN0aW9uIHJlYWxseS4gSWYgdGhlIGRhdGUgaXMgZXhwb3NlZCBv dXRzaWRlIG9mIExBTiwNCj4gPiBkb2VzDQo+ID4gaXQgY29udGFpbiBubyBzZW5zaXRpdmUgaW5m b3JtYXRpb24/DQo+ID4gDQo+IElmIHNvbWVvbmUgY2FuIHRlbGwgYSByb3V0ZXIgdGhhdCBBQS5C Qi8xNiBpcyBjb25uZWN0ZWQgImhlcmUiDQo+IHRoZW4gdGhhdCdkIEkgZ3Vlc3MgY2F1c2UgdGhl IHJvdXRlciB0byBzZW5kIHBhY2tldHMgdG8gdGhhdA0KPiBpbnRlcmZhY2UgdGhhdCdkIG90aGVy d2lzZSBnbyBvdXQgdGhlIGRlZmF1bHQuIFNlZW1zIGxpa2UgdGhhdA0KPiBjb3VsZCBiZSB0aGUg YmFzaXMgZm9yIHNvbWUgYXR0YWNrcywgd291bGRuJ3QgaXQ/DQo+IA0KDQpBZ3JlZWQsIG5ldHdv cmsgdG9wb2xvZ3kgaW5mb3JtYXRpb24gaXMgc2Vuc2l0aXZlIGVub3VnaCB0byB3YXJyYW50DQpz b21lIGtpbmQgb2YgcHJvdGVjdGlvbi4NCg0KUmljaw== From nobody Thu Dec 15 07:22:24 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1780F1296CF; 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Thu, 15 Dec 2016 15:22:09 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at scss.tcd.ie Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RjObnX3mhf-D; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 15:22:08 +0000 (GMT) Received: from [10.87.48.210] (95-45-153-252-dynamic.agg2.phb.bdt-fng.eircom.net [95.45.153.252]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7EB58BE51; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 15:22:07 +0000 (GMT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cs.tcd.ie; s=mail; t=1481815328; bh=xATuA/J2n2hk3uYPFDiahN4Y7MQWt0qNCQQC30ovNFM=; h=Subject:To:References:Cc:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=Vbfb9WgkAIEy4k9VqLX96IuruZXho4xF5t5I1S6LLvUgVAFwOV8PiAS0Xf/JiRLJD BqTmZBCHIUQ6IPHRR3kuUXZdLuycXtEVD6sGaVbIOnUtGz/KwFrrPDkoeYXWuwuYIu 8aMcXqLKliykAPlXyN9tTlokE8kQLs21Zrst9Os8= To: Rick Taylor , "iesg@ietf.org" References: <148181277830.27651.2048933448078334926.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <1481814736.2566.27.camel@tropicalstormsoftware.com> From: Stephen Farrell Openpgp: id=D66EA7906F0B897FB2E97D582F3C8736805F8DA2; url= Message-ID: Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2016 15:22:07 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.5.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <1481814736.2566.27.camel@tropicalstormsoftware.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha-256; boundary="------------ms070507030301040800000807" Archived-At: Cc: "manet@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-manet-dlep@ietf.org" , "manet-chairs@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [manet] Stephen Farrell's No Objection on draft-ietf-manet-dlep-26: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2016 15:22:22 -0000 This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms070507030301040800000807 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hiya, On 15/12/16 15:12, Rick Taylor wrote: > Hi Stephen, >=20 > Thanks for the comments, some answers inline... >=20 > On Thu, 2016-12-15 at 06:39 -0800, Stephen Farrell wrote: >> Stephen Farrell has entered the following ballot position for >> draft-ietf-manet-dlep-26: No Objection >> >> - 5.1: Is a modem supposed to ignore peer discovery >> signals from routers with which the modem does not have a >> TCP connection? >=20 > Peer Discovery is a UDP-based mechanism that is designed to run before > a TCP-based session is established, much like UPnP or mDNS. Sure, but my question stands doesn't it? As written a modem could decide to drop the current connection or ignore the signal. Don't you need to say? >=20 >> >> - 10.7: This says: "If the modem is capable of >> understanding and forwarding this information (via >> mechanisms not defined by DLEP)," I don't get why that's >> here, can you explain? If modem-modem comms is part of >> DLEP deployments (even if not fully spec'd) then that does >> change the security model. >=20 > DLEP only defines the conversation between a local router/modem pair. > How or what a modem sends over the air to another modem is > intentionally out of scope. That's why I don't get why the text sorta muddies the waters with the above quoted text. >=20 >> >> - 10.9 and elsewhere: none of these messages have anything >> like a cookie. Why not? That'd help mitigate potential off >> path attacks, where we currently depend solely on TTL=3D255 >> (and TLS, which seems to not be some people's favourite;-) >=20 > To be frank - we never considered a cookie as a security mechanism. > Personally I considered an attacker capable of successfully injecting > octets into an existing TCP stream would probably be able to hijack a > cookie mechanism. >=20 > However, I am not a security expert, and if this is a viable > alternative to TLS (which is unpopular with implementers, and has open > questions over certification) then it is definitely something that > should be considered. I'd need to think about the combination of 1-hop and offpath but there may be cases where it's useful e.g. to stop someone else on the same LAN from hijacking an existing session. Cookie mechanisms are not really an alternative to TLS though, more a useful thing if one doesn't have TLS, if you see the difference I mean. Cheers, S. >=20 >> >> - 11.8/9: are there any special addresses that MUST NOT >> occur here? E.g. ::1, 127.0.0.10? What about the addresses >> IANA allocates for you from 13.14/15? >=20 > From a DLEP perspective, no destination address or subnet is > prohibitted. Obviously a user can configure their network stupidly and= > then it wont work, but from a functional perspective, DLEP doesn't > care. And it doesn't add any further restriction on addresses beyond > the regular IPv4/6 rules. >=20 >> >> - 11.10/11: what does prefix=3D0 mean? >=20 > Prefix 0 was left in to allow announcement of a default route. >=20 >> >> - I agree with Alexey's DISCUSS#3, the TLS stuff needs >> more work to be usable. Maybe recommend PSK? >=20 > None of the authors are self-confessed security experts, and we do need= > advice here. >=20 > Thanks, >=20 > Rick >=20 --------------ms070507030301040800000807 Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExDzANBglghkgBZQMEAgEFADCABgkqhkiG9w0BBwEAAKCC CvIwggUIMIID8KADAgECAhBPzaE7pzYviUJyhmHTFBdnMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBCwUAMHUxCzAJ BgNVBAYTAklMMRYwFAYDVQQKEw1TdGFydENvbSBMdGQuMSkwJwYDVQQLEyBTdGFydENvbSBD ZXJ0aWZpY2F0aW9uIEF1dGhvcml0eTEjMCEGA1UEAxMaU3RhcnRDb20gQ2xhc3MgMSBDbGll bnQgQ0EwHhcNMTYwMjA5MDkyODE1WhcNMTcwMjA5MDkyODE1WjBOMSIwIAYDVQQDDBlzdGVw aGVuLmZhcnJlbGxAY3MudGNkLmllMSgwJgYJKoZIhvcNAQkBFhlzdGVwaGVuLmZhcnJlbGxA Y3MudGNkLmllMIIBIjANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQEFAAOCAQ8AMIIBCgKCAQEAtuC0rYze/2JinSra C9F2RjGdQZjNALLcW9C3WKTwYII3wBslobmHuPEYE5JaGItmzuKnAW619R1rD/kfoNWC19N3 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mapi; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 15:40:16 +0000 From: Rick Taylor To: "stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie" , "iesg@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [manet] Stephen Farrell's No Objection on draft-ietf-manet-dlep-26: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHSVuEV2xKR6DgxZUyi+iOOn4GycaEJHXsAgAACwYCAAAUrgA== Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2016 15:40:37 +0000 Message-ID: <1481816437.2566.40.camel@tropicalstormsoftware.com> References: <148181277830.27651.2048933448078334926.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <1481814736.2566.27.camel@tropicalstormsoftware.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <64b2ba0e-189d-4d1d-9866-23c0bf11db00> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "manet@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-manet-dlep@ietf.org" , "manet-chairs@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [manet] Stephen Farrell's No Objection on draft-ietf-manet-dlep-26: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 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with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 565C31296FD; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 07:45:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from tss-server1.home.tropicalstormsoftware.com ([fe80::753b:fa82:5c0:af0d]) by tss-server1.home.tropicalstormsoftware.com ([fe80::753b:fa82:5c0:af0d%10]) with mapi; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 15:45:00 +0000 From: Rick Taylor To: "rick.taylor.external@airbus.com" , "alissa@cooperw.in" Thread-Topic: [manet] Alissa Cooper's No Objection on draft-ietf-manet-dlep-26: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHSVj0zWOBylgf5JUW+mRU+Ll5hoaEI0Y2AgAA7w4CAABqyAA== Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2016 15:45:22 +0000 Message-ID: <1481816722.2566.45.camel@tropicalstormsoftware.com> References: <148174234095.16918.11283344396419538138.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <234FB6D4-831A-46A8-907A-59D2784C35D7@cooperw.in> In-Reply-To: <234FB6D4-831A-46A8-907A-59D2784C35D7@cooperw.in> Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "manet@ietf.org" , "iesg@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-manet-dlep@ietf.org" , "manet-chairs@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [manet] Alissa Cooper's No Objection on draft-ietf-manet-dlep-26: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2016 15:45:29 -0000 SGkgQWxpc3NhLA0KDQpPbiBUaHUsIDIwMTYtMTItMTUgYXQgMDk6MDkgLTA1MDAsIEFsaXNzYSBD b29wZXIgd3JvdGU6DQo+IEhpIFJpY2ssDQo+IA0KPiA+IA0KPiA+IE9uIERlYyAxNSwgMjAxNiwg YXQgNTozNSBBTSwgVGF5bG9yLCBSaWNrIChFeHRlcm5hbCkgPHJpY2sudGF5bG9yLmUNCj4gPiB4 dGVybmFsQGFpcmJ1cy5jb20+IHdyb3RlOg0KPiA+IA0KPiA+IEhpIEFsaXNzYSwNCj4gPiANCj4g PiBUaGFuayB5b3UgZm9yIHRoZSByZXZpZXcuwqDCoEEgZmV3IHJlcGxpZXMgdG8geW91ciBjb21t 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sjc-alcoop-8819.cisco.com (unknown [128.107.241.169]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id E3B2F241D1; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 12:56:47 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_9614C8F7-C561-42E5-81E0-0859805DFF83" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) From: Alissa Cooper In-Reply-To: <1481816722.2566.45.camel@tropicalstormsoftware.com> Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2016 12:56:46 -0500 Message-Id: <6F404885-55CA-4029-8AEF-B91C5B61EBC2@cooperw.in> References: <148174234095.16918.11283344396419538138.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <234FB6D4-831A-46A8-907A-59D2784C35D7@cooperw.in> <1481816722.2566.45.camel@tropicalstormsoftware.com> To: Rick Taylor X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) Archived-At: Cc: "rick.taylor.external@airbus.com" , "manet@ietf.org" , "iesg@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-manet-dlep@ietf.org" , "manet-chairs@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [manet] Alissa Cooper's No Objection on draft-ietf-manet-dlep-26: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2016 17:56:51 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_9614C8F7-C561-42E5-81E0-0859805DFF83 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi Rick, > On Dec 15, 2016, at 10:45 AM, Rick Taylor = wrote: >=20 > Ironically, there is a draft that has just been adopted by the WG, = that > describes a DLEP extension for min/max for the latency metric. Oh good. >=20 > The first paragraph of Section 4 attempts to suggest that metrics > should be an (perhaps rolling) average over a "...large enough sample > sizes will preclude short traffic bursts from adversely skewing > reported values..." >=20 > But perhaps that text needs improving?=20 I would say so, I found it to be vague. Thanks, Alissa >=20 > Thanks, >=20 > Rick --Apple-Mail=_9614C8F7-C561-42E5-81E0-0859805DFF83 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Hi Rick,

On Dec 15, 2016, at 10:45 AM, = Rick Taylor <rick@tropicalstormsoftware.com> wrote:

Ironically, there is a draft that has just been = adopted by the WG, that
describes a DLEP extension for min/max = for the latency metric.

Oh = good.


The first paragraph of Section 4 attempts to = suggest that metrics
should be an (perhaps rolling) average = over a "...large enough sample
sizes will preclude short traffic bursts = from adversely skewing
reported values..."

But perhaps that text needs = improving? 

I would say = so, I found it to be vague.

Thanks,
Alissa


Thanks,

Rick

= --Apple-Mail=_9614C8F7-C561-42E5-81E0-0859805DFF83-- From nobody Thu Dec 15 10:02:18 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F40D0129B56; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 10:02:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NrVsmlMCpmAO; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 10:02:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qk0-x242.google.com (mail-qk0-x242.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c09::242]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D0B641293DC; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 10:02:04 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qk0-x242.google.com with SMTP id t184so587612qkd.1; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 10:02:04 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=/rkwa7t/B/LiYLP2ysNzoBAD+5zHQgz9JUTHXQM8VaI=; b=Na3zNfiLyWXe6X++NalBfW/xJsALSy/GZSrJD9PioHl8+Csq/rTjg35hdeKkKEZCw8 SWUeeOtcnXKHr80FQV5BXOXOhqCxix13b3mGKNrDOQlWOqTDCZuHck0Yomn6WNrnWDc+ D05WnbzyQ7lZydQoIQnfMY3bsrca0nONQ7PudGzmMUqPc/7NWWGteyu9F8P59DmDFf3p G+jV7HM2YwxmP6yHFKmv/2brtgFYipbnDYfGvPRfuIN0EYrI9ljtI2GV1KOkLLb5uqNI mQ0+0ZCvH97qbOuBOTT0VGZ6zSNw8vrHY57CIxu7CJOrJwO21XPvpz3t1PIBW4ihLarE ZlaA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=/rkwa7t/B/LiYLP2ysNzoBAD+5zHQgz9JUTHXQM8VaI=; b=p2uB8Txz5AzPbBB20TKqpsp1dRqyePM0JiUyBnH1KsxxqJLRiVUQA2JhxJy9sIdjYf mDstTzxDHigKwdIww1ll+0WVXFeVN5ID0eRGWzweeTddJsIiAi1EY+qWBHlEQO3U/wMK 3nCr9Kd6JnMlbkKaQZxlKwQAfCDHnBMoYcqVRUPMvfph2iNLS7XrY65m2L8FEnuzE/hp hQ0VmPa98OxKvp2rJkRKLa3prTm31AAh8YIbD5p7WZsZYFWCCszeRgXoB3QG/EUsyOr9 s3bQdJjEbS4RMSeH73VC18WPHS78oBeTIm9o7uAeHRLjnG9mE5z8Gp84iKhIiTB1mI/d TRlg== X-Gm-Message-State: AIkVDXIiU755DbVBdzGqUyAI57bk8H/dSsUYZzCOh0F6Nek6yZsf2g6dFn+ZEMxKMCOfYOceBT0TWg3HxEesRA== X-Received: by 10.55.174.135 with SMTP id x129mr2055889qke.133.1481824924023; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 10:02:04 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.237.38.161 with HTTP; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 10:01:33 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <4f81336b-b9be-2891-f502-90cae6955e56@cs.tcd.ie> References: <148156334986.22491.1152871712874859894.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <79D48CEB-2CFC-43A8-8D01-5C5CB1778966@fastmail.fm> <9B802ACF-84EF-4C47-92F8-122CA724C71A@fastmail.fm> <1481813917.419436.820073297.68E45D5D@webmail.messagingengine.com> <4f81336b-b9be-2891-f502-90cae6955e56@cs.tcd.ie> From: Henning Rogge Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2016 19:01:33 +0100 Message-ID: To: Stephen Farrell Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: Cc: manet-chairs@ietf.org, Alexey Melnikov , MANET IETF , draft-ietf-manet-dlep@ietf.org, The IESG Subject: Re: [manet] Alexey Melnikov's Discuss on draft-ietf-manet-dlep-26: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2016 18:02:11 -0000 On Thu, Dec 15, 2016 at 4:02 PM, Stephen Farrell wrote: > If someone can tell a router that AA.BB/16 is connected "here" > then that'd I guess cause the router to send packets to that > interface that'd otherwise go out the default. Seems like that > could be the basis for some attacks, wouldn't it? Which would be totally fine (security wise) by dedicated cable of 802.1x/801.1ae, right? Henning From nobody Thu Dec 15 11:01:53 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AEAF12943D; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 11:01:47 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.202 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.202 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SNiF3aFHW2k8; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 11:01:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from usplmg20.ericsson.net (usplmg20.ericsson.net [198.24.6.45]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 042FA129BC0; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 11:01:31 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: c618062d-aa3ff70000007359-4b-5852edf87e1c Received: from EUSAAHC007.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [147.117.188.93]) by (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 87.EF.29529.8FDE2585; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 20:24:41 +0100 (CET) Received: from EUSAAMB107.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.124]) by EUSAAHC007.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.93]) with mapi id 14.03.0319.002; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 14:01:30 -0500 From: Suresh Krishnan To: Henning Rogge Thread-Topic: [manet] Suresh Krishnan's Discuss on draft-ietf-manet-dlep-26: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHSVcohsd/RbZGzekagDZY0o+pV+g== Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2016 19:01:29 +0000 Message-ID: References: <148169297159.10864.11213404330614218630.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [147.117.188.11] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFvrMLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyuXRPrO7Pt0ERBg1PuSwu9UxmtJi+YD2r xYw/E5ktVv3dwmzxb8sTdgdWj52z7rJ7LFnykymAKYrLJiU1J7MstUjfLoEr42H/BOaCL2wV 63rbGBsYn7F2MXJwSAiYSPxtCOhi5OIQEljPKLFi2ixWCGc5o8T5QxOZuxg5OdiAijbs/MwE YosIqEh0HV7MCFLELLCRUeJa+zs2kEnCAhkSzev5IWoyJa7NuQhVryfx/+AJFhCbRUBV4uau DawgNq+Ar0RH10x2iGVTGSWWd+1gB0kwCohJfD+1BqyZWUBc4taT+WC2hICAxJI955khbFGJ l4//sULYShIff89nh6jXkViw+xMbhK0tsWzha2aIZYISJ2c+YZnAKDILydhZSFpmIWmZhaRl ASPLKkaO0uKCnNx0I4NNjMCoOCbBpruD8f50z0OMAhyMSjy8Bi+CIoRYE8uKK3MPMUpwMCuJ 8Fo9BwrxpiRWVqUW5ccXleakFh9ilOZgURLnjVt9P1xIID2xJDU7NbUgtQgmy8TBKdXAyHV9 wo8IgW1CGUVyZR+PtRdFKZZNs3+WH16kKNTo6qVR0/3o3eGoMxn/Jtm9nZA11yZpt29Q0XOP Dg5lk+31G7uOcom9UE8+GMT7p2prfZHacfP3Rrnyd08knN1ZYG37O+f6LX6ztFt2glphIhz3 J+W4pok01HjfvWOko7J+qrLMpMkLnr5TYinOSDTUYi4qTgQALz3DOYYCAAA= Archived-At: Cc: MANET IETF , The IESG , "draft-ietf-manet-dlep@ietf.org" , "manet-chairs@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [manet] Suresh Krishnan's Discuss on draft-ietf-manet-dlep-26: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2016 19:01:47 -0000 On 12/15/2016 03:56 AM, Henning Rogge wrote:=0A= > On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 6:22 AM, Suresh Krishnan=0A= > wrote:=0A= >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------= =0A= >> COMMENT:=0A= >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------= =0A= >>=0A= >> * Sections 11.2, 11.3, 11.9 and 11.10=0A= >> The IPv4 and IPv6 addresses do not seem to be aligned on word boundaries= .=0A= >> Didn't you face any inefficiencies/difficulties due to this in your=0A= >> implementations (I saw there were four independent ones)?=0A= >=0A= > DLEP does not use any padding on single TLVs, so you must be able to=0A= > parse a TLS beginning on an unaligned address anyways.=0A= =0A= Thanks Henning. That makes sense. Any thoughts regarding my DISCUSS point?= =0A= =0A= Regards=0A= Suresh=0A= =0A= From nobody Thu Dec 15 11:03:31 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E42A12943D; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 11:03:29 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UMJLGj6u0IWm; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 11:03:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qk0-x236.google.com (mail-qk0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c09::236]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7ACBA12965B; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 11:03:20 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qk0-x236.google.com with SMTP id n204so67165228qke.2; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 11:03:20 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=fQAYlhBFmh7QYVHGXCM2VhU5hSckDPDO7qHrRxoBhi8=; b=hmC4EtiQeYJSmHqpY7mvRb6bytnZzqxRsDvN/EvVfXFdYwSabB/TmZzkFK0XJx39t3 p9Mk/Z7xq+KvIE3N0FPDwvkp2EOd/aK8UZCvULjmbOEX/SQPls3Flyq5J5u+C5SPeayD /59TOETuDYQfwVwGtSCu+sPRYqhqu9IOBItxjACa0T5WrmewmUZllaFf9ynWGoTckGHs UxUI11Sa+7oCso7H7obQGWC7P/6I4uc8X8gTw5wZs+8QIEcQWdRyxzBbb2G7DbgPy1VV TBnSrKBoTBHFBTMWWd6PiFoGWmzQ3IhLrBlcBmhL9LlCrJ8vkVsLFocuBrh35uCKfi9Y Obgw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=fQAYlhBFmh7QYVHGXCM2VhU5hSckDPDO7qHrRxoBhi8=; b=hDI2os5QCGQPkrrOHD/EjvZzyd18KSsU6yFDb1Sw8LdiA3NpsBn7kaRgSQerqW937p 7CuCNO5GvQJiLJvQGTnF4gBZI4zMRuaN6oV0GL8WxfzfFXsxGbOlRky7tRK0vW1c1sa1 x0Jx7+z+/+YujqZ/UgUyLtvrlGtSL7Vomf/k1qyUVjuGTn7CL3ttnxScM4bNU883gvqK haaXgh2PXBWQ4pnEcWESV7W1XA19qRr64BPhDeikF1BI2cjf1eZYzVYnG+6CzKmYWt2N cMfL9u64RLODpaY76Pl742J0HemBggULpPcMHIRV1mM4QKOxAdxczFdyr3hsRGIAOUet WeAA== X-Gm-Message-State: AIkVDXL1CC1YTxqyzqG/16Q4ghgPnANOAk0EOCsf2hxQkzw2W9dpD6uci0fhHjv94LU14evYNVYgRamyXKMZdQ== X-Received: by 10.55.200.147 with SMTP id t19mr1869505qkl.165.1481828599705; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 11:03:19 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.237.38.161 with HTTP; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 11:02:49 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <148169297159.10864.11213404330614218630.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Henning Rogge Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2016 20:02:49 +0100 Message-ID: To: Suresh Krishnan Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: Cc: MANET IETF , The IESG , "draft-ietf-manet-dlep@ietf.org" , "manet-chairs@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [manet] Suresh Krishnan's Discuss on draft-ietf-manet-dlep-26: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2016 19:03:29 -0000 On Thu, Dec 15, 2016 at 8:01 PM, Suresh Krishnan wrote: > On 12/15/2016 03:56 AM, Henning Rogge wrote: >> On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 6:22 AM, Suresh Krishnan >> wrote: >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> COMMENT: >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> * Sections 11.2, 11.3, 11.9 and 11.10 >>> The IPv4 and IPv6 addresses do not seem to be aligned on word boundaries. >>> Didn't you face any inefficiencies/difficulties due to this in your >>> implementations (I saw there were four independent ones)? >> >> DLEP does not use any padding on single TLVs, so you must be able to >> parse a TLS beginning on an unaligned address anyways. > > Thanks Henning. That makes sense. Any thoughts regarding my DISCUSS point? You are right, there is one "line" too much for the MAC address, if we remove it we get down to the 6/8 bytes we need. Henning From nobody Thu Dec 15 11:06:57 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32C8512943D; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 11:06:56 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.001 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=idirect.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AChKowDYL6g6; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 11:06:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx0b-00229401.pphosted.com (mx0b-00229401.pphosted.com [148.163.159.249]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A3245129422; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 11:06:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from pps.filterd (m0097890.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0b-00229401.pphosted.com (8.16.0.17/8.16.0.17) with SMTP id uBFJ6o8J004915; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 14:06:50 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=idirect.net; h=from : to : cc : subject : date : message-id : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding : mime-version; s=dk1; bh=s4IGrmn9Dirax7H2Ir9YPGmGCqMXx6cwKaSGGbh2sio=; b=f7vnU7JBpHjLunWOBy0egWVCDz23SFmoUD+dKfXnN00gfAG+1Cj4L/NjD9v+a16P5Sj1 DpwbLiJ0Y+T4Jd599+04djsVJPmh4gjvgucVL6L9p0mrb5uP+eYr6z0hybyaiq9tFM0A +LDPTnK/zNKd5+iH5zwiIM/nqsGG1xHm86+z8f3JrmdWVweAXB07rP3S4bzCJcl7Lq9d aPuAlmFpgqfLI95uTDRSXctiPfKId/lOLIkuAfdCp2sTcoNIshsK04PDSF6LnJCdkZup lVKzDg4/aW1Advp4wAxefxyIM3p/+K9f3ztHyfl8rnUiq4B601/DzuysJo+JbMwEsBPd Sw== Received: from webmail.idirect.net ([198.180.159.2]) by mx0b-00229401.pphosted.com with ESMTP id 27bn76gmua-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Thu, 15 Dec 2016 14:06:50 -0500 Received: from VAUSDITCHM2.idirect.net (10.250.250.202) by VAUSDITCHM2.idirect.net (10.250.250.202) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1236.3; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 14:06:49 -0500 Received: from VAUSDITCHM2.idirect.net ([fe80::b5b6:9e50:3403:e75d]) by VAUSDITCHM2.idirect.net ([fe80::b5b6:9e50:3403:e75d%15]) with mapi id 15.00.1236.000; Thu, 15 Dec 2016 14:06:49 -0500 From: "Ratliff, Stanley" To: Suresh Krishnan , Henning Rogge Thread-Topic: [manet] Suresh Krishnan's Discuss on draft-ietf-manet-dlep-26: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHSVcogXYgSE3Ym8EyEXgKOyYTnEKEJYKEg Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2016 19:06:49 +0000 Message-ID: <7dbbb2d6f7f2436ca190952eaee5cd4a@VAUSDITCHM2.idirect.net> References: <148169297159.10864.11213404330614218630.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.250.250.20] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:, , definitions=2016-12-15_14:, , signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outboundspam_notspam policy=outboundspam score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1011 lowpriorityscore=0 impostorscore=0 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1612050000 definitions=main-1612150287 Archived-At: Cc: MANET IETF , The IESG , "draft-ietf-manet-dlep@ietf.org" , "manet-chairs@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [manet] Suresh Krishnan's Discuss on draft-ietf-manet-dlep-26: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2016 19:06:56 -0000 Suresh,=20 FWIW, your DISCUSS point on Section 11.7 is absolutely correct. There is an= error in the ASCII art in that section. We will fix with the next revision= .=20 Regards, Stan > -----Original Message----- > From: Suresh Krishnan [mailto:suresh.krishnan@ericsson.com] > Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2016 2:01 PM > To: Henning Rogge > Cc: The IESG ; MANET IETF ; draft-ietf- > manet-dlep@ietf.org; manet-chairs@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [manet] Suresh Krishnan's Discuss on draft-ietf-manet-dlep-2= 6: > (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) >=20 > On 12/15/2016 03:56 AM, Henning Rogge wrote: > > On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 6:22 AM, Suresh Krishnan > > wrote: > >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> - > >> COMMENT: > >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> - > >> > >> * Sections 11.2, 11.3, 11.9 and 11.10 The IPv4 and IPv6 addresses do > >> not seem to be aligned on word boundaries. > >> Didn't you face any inefficiencies/difficulties due to this in your > >> implementations (I saw there were four independent ones)? > > > > DLEP does not use any padding on single TLVs, so you must be able to > > parse a TLS beginning on an unaligned address anyways. >=20 > Thanks Henning. That makes sense. Any thoughts regarding my DISCUSS > point? >=20 > Regards > Suresh =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D This electronic message and any files transmitted with it contains information from iDirect, which may be privileged, proprietary and/or confidential. It is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. 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manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2016 19:56:04 -0000 Reviewer: Elwyn Davies Review result: Ready with Nits I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. The General Area Review Team (Gen-ART) reviews all IETF documents being processed by the IESG for the IETF Chair.  Please treat these comments just like any other last call comments. For more information, please see the FAQ at ;. Document: draft-ietf-manet-olsrv2-sec-threats-03.txt Reviewer: Elwyn Davies Review Date: 2016/12/18 IETF LC End Date: 2016/12/20 IESG Telechat date: 2017/01/05 Summary: Ready with nits Major issues:  None. Minor issues: s3.2:  I do not know enough about the details of NHDP and OLSRv2 to know if this is a silly question:  Would it be possible for a compromised node to perform hop-limit or hop-count modification attacks even with RFC 6183 security in place just by modifying these fields and reforwarding the packet even if it wasn't actually in the network topology?   If so, it would be desirable to mention this if it can do any harm. s6:  I am unclear whether the RFC 6183 security mitigates all the threats mentioned  here and in RFC 7186.  It would be useful to list any that remain unmitigated at the end of s9 as items for further study (or say that all of these are covered).    Nits/editorial comments: idnits indicates that RFC 6779 has been obsoleted by RFC 7939.  I think this ref ought to be updated. I noticed that Ian Chakeres' affiliation is out of date. Abstract: s/threats of/threats that might apply to/ s1, para 2: s/requirements presented/requirements that need to be addressed / s1, para 2: s/utopia/utopian/ s1, para 2: OLD:    For the    Internet, with an increase in users, an increase in attacks and    abuses followed necessitating a change in recommended practices. NEW:    With deployent in the wider     Internet, with a resultant increase in user numbers, an increase in attacks and    abuses has followed necessitating a change in recommended practices. ENDS s1, para 3: s/often is/is often/ s1, para 3: s/particular/greater/  s1, para 3: OLD: there is commonly no physical    protection as otherwise known for wired networks. NEW: there are commonly no physical constraints on the conformation of nodes and     communication links that make up the network as could be expected for    wired networks. ENDS s1, para 4: s/secured/well-secured/ s1, para 2: s/to OLSRv2/of OLSRv2 s1,next to last para: It would be good to reference RFC 6130 for NHDP here. s1.1, para 1: OLD: Link State Advertisements, They are described in the    below with sufficient details for elaborating the analyses in this    document. NEW: Link State Advertisements. They are described in the sections    below with sufficient details to allow elaboration of the analyses in this    document. ENDS s1.3: s/correctly looking/apparently correct/ s1.4; s/henceforth/henceforth identified as/ s1.3: s/disrupt the the LSA process,/disrupt the LSA process,/ s3, para 1: s/TCs to not being delivered to/TCs not being delivered to/ s3.1, para 1: s/a jittering/a jittering mechanism/ s3.2.1, para 1: s/forwarding the message/forwarding for the message/ s3.2.1, para 2: s/transmissions arrives/transmissions arrive/ s4.3.1, s4.3.2 and s5.1:  The statements that 'this threat can be mitigated...' are premature and belong to s6.  Suggest removing the sentences. s4.4, para 6:  OLD: The compromised OLSRv2 router will indicate its willingness to be zero (thus, avoid being selected as MPR) NEW: The compromised OLSRv2 router will indicate its willingness to be selected as an MPR as zero (thus, avoid being selected as MPR) ENDS s5.1, para 1: OLD: The inconsistent topology maps due to neighborhood discovery has been NEW: The creation of inconsistent topology maps due to neighborhood discovery has been ENDS s6.2.1, "Modifying the hop limit/count": I think you mean "mutable" rather than "mutual" (2 places)! s6.2.3, "Identity Spoofing": s/may further allow to revoke/may give the possibility of revoking/ s9: There is some discussion as to whether an Informational RFC can have Normative References.  I think it shouldn't, but if it does then I would argue that RFC 6130 and RFC 7183 are also normative. From nobody Mon Dec 19 02:41:16 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04ABF12969B; Mon, 19 Dec 2016 02:41:08 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.127 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.127 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RDNS_NONE=0.793] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mI4z6qgq1Tjo; Mon, 19 Dec 2016 02:41:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from ukmta1.baesystems.com (unknown [20.133.0.55]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A1E241296A4; Mon, 19 Dec 2016 02:40:13 -0800 (PST) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.33,373,1477958400"; d="scan'208";a="142209153" Received: from unknown (HELO baemasmds016.greenlnk.net) ([10.15.207.101]) by ukmta1.baesystems.com with ESMTP; 19 Dec 2016 10:40:11 +0000 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.33,373,1477958400"; d="scan'208";a="148456039" Received: from glkxh0001v.greenlnk.net ([10.109.2.32]) by baemasmds016.greenlnk.net with ESMTP; 19 Dec 2016 10:40:12 +0000 Received: from GLKXM0003V.GREENLNK.net ([169.254.4.250]) by GLKXH0001V.GREENLNK.net ([10.109.2.32]) with mapi id 14.03.0248.002; Mon, 19 Dec 2016 10:40:11 +0000 From: "Dearlove, Christopher (UK)" To: Elwyn Davies , "gen-art@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Review of draft-ietf-manet-olsrv2-sec-threats-03 Thread-Index: AQHSWWjMPz9z731p2kWISNR37iythaEPD0tw Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2016 10:40:10 +0000 Message-ID: References: <148209096399.6405.5288912281902695282.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <148209096399.6405.5288912281902695282.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.109.62.6] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Archived-At: Cc: "draft-ietf-manet-olsrv2-sec-threats.all@ietf.org" , "manet@ietf.org" , "ietf@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [manet] Review of draft-ietf-manet-olsrv2-sec-threats-03 X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2016 10:41:08 -0000 RWx3eW4gRGF2aWVzDQo+IHMzLjI6IMKgSSBkbyBub3Qga25vdyBlbm91Z2ggYWJvdXQgdGhlIGRl dGFpbHMgb2YgTkhEUCBhbmQgT0xTUnYyIHRvIGtub3cgaWYgdGhpcyBpcyBhIHNpbGx5IHF1ZXN0 aW9uOiDCoFdvdWxkIGl0IGJlIHBvc3NpYmxlIGZvciBhIGNvbXByb21pc2VkIG5vZGUgdG8gcGVy Zm9ybSBob3AtbGltaXQgb3IgaG9wLWNvdW50IG1vZGlmaWNhdGlvbiBhdHRhY2tzIGV2ZW4gd2l0 aCBSRkMgNjE4MyBzZWN1cml0eSBpbiBwbGFjZSBqdXN0IGJ5IG1vZGlmeWluZyB0aGVzZSBmaWVs 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KioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKgo= From nobody Mon Dec 19 11:46:17 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 306DB1294B6; Mon, 19 Dec 2016 11:46:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id y4A3CmQPtDv2; Mon, 19 Dec 2016 11:46:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qk0-x233.google.com 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"Dearlove, Christopher (UK)" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=94eb2c07692893d9ca0544081365 Archived-At: Cc: "manet@ietf.org" , "gen-art@ietf.org" , Elwyn Davies , "draft-ietf-manet-olsrv2-sec-threats.all@ietf.org" , "ietf@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [manet] Review of draft-ietf-manet-olsrv2-sec-threats-03 X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2016 19:46:10 -0000 --94eb2c07692893d9ca0544081365 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 I recommend that if a reviewer did not find the answer to the simple security question then the answer should be clear in the document. Please note that this protocol has many RFCs involved but still this draft needs to answer clearly the security threat questions. I think maybe the confusion is that the draft refers to many drafts and does not clarify the differences between packets and messages, not sure but the reviewer can help with his observations. The main issues of threats is always about packets and messages, so why not clarify those differences rather than referring to other documents. - We may understand from the below answer is that the question answer is YES, and NO if using ICVs or signatures. It states in the draft in page 4, as OLSRv2 SHOULD use 7183 and MAY use other ....... (it is better not to use MAY if you don't define/determine the other alternative). - Section 3.2 page 7, mentions the attacks threats of modify hop-limit. It also mentions that hop-limit is not protected by integrity check,,, ( which is 7183). Recommend to clarify in draft: The manet packet has no longer than one hop, it's messages that have the hop-limit that may be attacked. So the attacker to manet using 7183, just can change the hop-limits of messages if has the keys. AB On Mon, Dec 19, 2016 at 12:40 PM, Dearlove, Christopher (UK) < chris.dearlove@baesystems.com> wrote: > Elwyn Davies > > s3.2: I do not know enough about the details of NHDP and OLSRv2 to know > if this is a silly question: Would it be possible for a compromised node > to perform hop-limit or hop-count modification attacks even with RFC 6183 > security in place just by modifying these fields and reforwarding the > packet even if it wasn't actually in the network topology? If so, it > would be desirable to mention this if it can do any harm. > > No, not a silly question at all. But there are details that make the > answer longer than yes or no. > > (Typo: RFC 6183 is RFC 7183.) > > You need to distinguish packets from messages (this is RFC 5444 > territory). And NHDP doesn't matter here, as its message (HELLO) is not > forwarded and any hop count or limit is either ignored or possibly used as > a reason to reject. > > So OLSRv2 messages (TC) are forwarded, but at each hop they are put into a > packet. That packet is assembled from one or more messages, and at each hop > it is broken apart and a new packet formed. So the TC message may share a > packet with different other messages at each hop. > > RFC 7183, which forwards to RFC 7182 where the actual work is defined, > allows you to protect either messages, or packets (or both). Packet > protection protects hop count and hop limit, but has other limitations (it > is not end to end). Message protection is applied to each message, and is > end to end (or rather, originator to each processing/forwarding router) but > does not protect hop count and hop limit. > > So if using RFC 7183/7182 just to protect messages (it also covers sender > addresses) then there is an attack. Attacker receives packet, sends new > packet that resets hop count and limit in those messages it includes in a > new packet to only one more hop before end of life. Sends quickly (normal > forwarding may be delayed, especially if using RFC 5148) and possibly even > elsewhere in network (wormhole attack). This "penultimate hop" message > poisons the real message, if it arrives later, as it is seen before, and > not forwarded, while the penultimate hop message will go one hop and stop. > (Can we do this with a "last hop" message to poison even more successfully? > That I would need to check some details in RFC 7181 to determine.) > > Could this be prevented? I can imagine a revision of RFC 7181's forwarding > rules that recorded hop count/limit, and if seeing a longer range message > decided to forward that even if seen before with a lower range. But that > introduces a new attack of creating a sequence of increasing range messages > to add to the traffic load. Or you could use both packet and message ICVs, > which does prevent this attack but increases overhead. Or (potential future > that I know someone is working on, but is not a solution now as far as I > know) find a form of aggregating signature that overcomes this problem > efficiently. > ******************************************************************** > This email and any attachments are confidential to the intended > recipient and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended > recipient please delete it from your system and notify the sender. > You should not copy it or use it for any purpose nor disclose or > distribute its contents to any other person. > ******************************************************************** > _______________________________________________ > manet mailing list > manet@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet > --94eb2c07692893d9ca0544081365 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I recommend that if a reviewer did not find the answe= r to the simple security question then the answer should be clear in the do= cument. Please note that this protocol has many RFCs involved but still thi= s draft needs to answer clearly the security threat=C2=A0questions. I think= maybe the=C2=A0confusion is that the draft refers to many drafts and does = not clarify the differences between packets and messages, not sure but the = reviewer can help with his observations. The main issues of threats is alwa= ys about packets and messages, so why not clarify those differences=C2=A0ra= ther than referring to other documents.

- We may= =C2=A0understand from=C2=A0the below answer is that the question answer is = YES, and=C2=A0 NO if using ICVs or signatures. It states in the draft in pa= ge 4, as OLSRv2 SHOULD use 7183 and MAY use other ....... (it is better not= to use MAY if you don't define/determine the other alternative).

- Section 3.2 page 7, =C2=A0mentions the attacks threa= ts of modify hop-limit. It also mentions that hop-limit is not protected by= integrity check,,, ( which is=C2=A0 7183).

Recomm= end to clarify in draft:
The=C2=A0manet packet has no=C2=A0longer= than one hop, it's messages that have the=C2=A0hop-limit that may be a= ttacked. So the attacker to manet using 7183, =C2=A0just can change the hop= -limits of messages=C2=A0if has the keys.


AB

On Mon, Dec 19, 2016 at 12:40 PM, Dearlove, Christopher (UK) <chris.dearlove@baesystems.com> wrote:
Elwyn Davies
> s3.2: =C2=A0I do not know enough about the details of NHDP and O= LSRv2 to know if this is a silly question: =C2=A0Would it be possible for a= compromised node to perform hop-limit or hop-count modification attacks ev= en with RFC 6183 security in place just by modifying these fields and refor= warding the packet even if it wasn't actually in the network topology? = =C2=A0 If so, it would be desirable to mention this if it can do any harm.<= br>
No, not a silly question at all. But there are details that make the= answer longer than yes or no.

(Typo: RFC 6183 is RFC 7183.)

You need to distinguish packets from messages (this is RFC 5444 territory).= And NHDP doesn't matter here, as its message (HELLO) is not forwarded = and any hop count or limit is either ignored or possibly used as a reason t= o reject.

So OLSRv2 messages (TC) are forwarded, but at each hop they are put into a = packet. That packet is assembled from one or more messages, and at each hop= it is broken apart and a new packet formed. So the TC message may share a = packet with different other messages at each hop.

RFC 7183, which forwards to RFC 7182 where the actual work is defined, allo= ws you to protect either messages, or packets (or both). Packet protection = protects hop count and hop limit, but has other limitations (it is not end = to end). Message protection is applied to each message, and is end to end (= or rather, originator to each processing/forwarding router) but does not pr= otect hop count and hop limit.

So if using RFC 7183/7182 just to protect messages (it also covers sender a= ddresses) then there is an attack. Attacker receives packet, sends new pack= et that resets hop count and limit in those messages it includes in a new p= acket to only one more hop before end of life. Sends quickly (normal forwar= ding may be delayed, especially if using RFC 5148) and possibly even elsewh= ere in network (wormhole attack). This "penultimate hop" message = poisons the real message, if it arrives later, as it is seen before, and no= t forwarded, while the penultimate hop message will go one hop and stop. (C= an we do this with a "last hop" message to poison even more succe= ssfully? That I would need to check some details in RFC 7181 to determine.)=

Could this be prevented? I can imagine a revision of RFC 7181's forward= ing rules that recorded hop count/limit, and if seeing a longer range messa= ge decided to forward that even if seen before with a lower range. But that= introduces a new attack of creating a sequence of increasing range message= s to add to the traffic load. Or you could use both packet and message ICVs= , which does prevent this attack but increases overhead. Or (potential futu= re that I know someone is working on, but is not a solution now as far as I= know) find a form of aggregating signature that overcomes this problem eff= iciently.
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--94eb2c07692893d9ca0544081365-- From nobody Mon Dec 19 12:06:34 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FA1C129572; Mon, 19 Dec 2016 12:06:28 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ogkdC4XS4nHG; Mon, 19 Dec 2016 12:06:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wm0-x243.google.com (mail-wm0-x243.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::243]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 655021294B6; Mon, 19 Dec 2016 12:06:26 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wm0-x243.google.com with SMTP id u144so20556358wmu.0; Mon, 19 Dec 2016 12:06:26 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=iebPvRVNN2TfxvRmC6GlBkwosK3y22KL6E7e/nF/EcY=; b=rdBFKXANAEw/mLclKf6nG1xEc4RBbvQS78h/HyUSExzmazHb0abfLTxz6nfRRHofad RqO0FkkMwO7UBoyNWPAGP2zEoauGY/IRI45d9jObySI4t+x6a8DJAoUkzXdzqxbQ/U8D wigo0dWSS0itD7IqpXFpDxDu0sSLbCMTRkaC0tFk54kdi3F8Zku3rwR9k11k2/b96Y4e PqE9oBNm4+emkOKF5pKQYvnuGkFFtfPQQ7sBEuEjmK7nn+O+q/gwbHuY+b+NHqMQEzur t5GHI7RSAQwgcdDti021TbY895gnMA1xTtsvVuuuwKBdyCi4K517O19MbwcQaTK4j0zw NJHA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=iebPvRVNN2TfxvRmC6GlBkwosK3y22KL6E7e/nF/EcY=; b=na1vwa3EokG+SaYVCdW0Lf5DCr/R8xb7vrc9iC2pQDt9cQ6+tXsT9hVS4hgL/a9Fb1 uQFlcaRBHrC4lskXroFFUEOUnelbXCqPBVNnXuCzN5Zp5/AgalSle5QtChtKXizfqrX6 XVOWdm2zJ+pW6FPdrt9iK9GS8CKd36EMNzHJdZvJ0Tmp03TJ0nU51aQw6CKGaD1YGhgU x3Y6F/IRhN7tpaKq2/5YZuBk6SqXVj1HnGekPiDxAQbZHgn0PyVp6WA9fxs1jKVr09i9 GtYkhFTCVwVIJshyeReHiAd1TU1mX6mK6vmmtwzanCREt5L1vcw0HFnQlukJeyBQToQN c8Hw== X-Gm-Message-State: AIkVDXLJMhVOcz7/mpkCSfwrUsR3k3ugX6urvyv897g5fZT/tgWxJhNFdf2n1+1+FMJsvA== X-Received: by 10.28.46.144 with SMTP id u138mr14091448wmu.136.1482177984756; Mon, 19 Dec 2016 12:06:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.142] ([213.205.251.189]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id m145sm18711427wma.3.2016.12.19.12.06.23 (version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 19 Dec 2016 12:06:24 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) From: Christopher Dearlove In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2016 20:06:22 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <277CA497-CFB1-4E23-9941-66D89C3BBB1D@gmail.com> References: <148209096399.6405.5288912281902695282.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> To: Abdussalam Baryun X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) Archived-At: Cc: "ietf@ietf.org" , "Dearlove, Christopher \(UK\)" , "gen-art@ietf.org" , "manet@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-manet-olsrv2-sec-threats.all@ietf.org" , Elwyn Davies Subject: Re: [manet] Review of draft-ietf-manet-olsrv2-sec-threats-03 X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2016 20:06:28 -0000 On 19 Dec 2016, at 19:39, Abdussalam Baryun = wrote: >=20 > I recommend that if a reviewer did not find the answer to the simple = security question then the answer should be clear in the document. = Please note that this protocol has many RFCs involved but still this = draft needs to answer clearly the security threat questions. I think = maybe the confusion is that the draft refers to many drafts and does not = clarify the differences between packets and messages, not sure but the = reviewer can help with his observations. The main issues of threats is = always about packets and messages, so why not clarify those differences = rather than referring to other documents. >=20 > - We may understand from the below answer is that the question answer = is YES, and NO if using ICVs or signatures. It states in the draft in = page 4, as OLSRv2 SHOULD use 7183 and MAY use other ....... (it is = better not to use MAY if you don't define/determine the other = alternative).=20 >=20 > - Section 3.2 page 7, mentions the attacks threats of modify = hop-limit. It also mentions that hop-limit is not protected by integrity = check,,, ( which is 7183). >=20 > Recommend to clarify in draft: > The manet packet has no longer than one hop, it's messages that have = the hop-limit that may be attacked. So the attacker to manet using 7183, = just can change the hop-limits of messages if has the keys. There are a number of errors in the above, which I=E2=80=99m afraid I = lack the patience to spell out in detail. But it does correctly point out that section 3.2 discusses the impact of = attacks on hop count/limit - in fact in more detail than I did. And that = this is not protected against by 7183 is indicated in section 6.2.1. = (The keys are not required.) However there is a weakness in section 6, which is that it seems to only = be considering message ICV use. But, as I had forgotten in my previous = comment, although RFC 7182 defines packet and message level protections, = RFC 7183 only discusses the message protection. (That will be because = packets are RFC 5444 constructs, not limited to carrying OLSRv2 and = NHDP.) Packet level protection therefore is correctly excluded if only = considering RFC 7183, however I think a mention of packet protection = using RFC 7182 would not be out of place. (Protecting hop count and = limit is the main gain from packet protection over message protection, = the other is some processing gain if using something more expensive like = RFC 7859 - an RFC 7182 addition. The main losses are in trust model and = the impact of key loss when not using a single shared key - as for RFC = 7859 but not RFC 7183=E2=80=99s chosen option from RFC 7182.)= From nobody Mon Dec 19 13:42:00 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45B0912943D for ; Mon, 19 Dec 2016 13:41:59 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7.297 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.297 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-3.1, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id u3PtwSoLEEXa for ; Mon, 19 Dec 2016 13:41:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from llmx2.ll.mit.edu (LLMX2.LL.MIT.EDU [129.55.12.48]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5D1E129418 for ; Mon, 19 Dec 2016 13:41:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from LLE2K10-HUB02.mitll.ad.local (LLE2K10-HUB02.mitll.ad.local) by llmx2.ll.mit.edu (unknown) with ESMTP id uBJLaTOA049072 for ; Mon, 19 Dec 2016 16:36:30 -0500 From: "Wiggins, David - 0665 - MITLL" To: "manet@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: DLEP software on github Thread-Index: AQHSWkAouLDjROqd00iIo49M6IKETw== Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2016 21:37:54 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [172.25.59.174] Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="B_3565010273_4766" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:, , definitions=2016-12-19_14:, , signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 spamscore=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1612050000 definitions=main-1612190230 Archived-At: Subject: [manet] DLEP software on github X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2016 21:41:59 -0000 --B_3565010273_4766 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="B_3565010273_17732" --B_3565010273_17732 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit MIT Lincoln Laboratory is pleased to announce the availability of the following open-source software on github: DLEP implementation: https://github.com/mit-ll/LL-DLEP DLEP wireshark dissector: https://github.com/mit-ll/dlep-wireshark-dissector Integration of EMANE RF-PIPE model with LL-DLEP: https://github.com/mit-ll/emane-dlep-layer Enjoy! David --B_3565010273_17732 Content-type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable
MIT Lincoln Laboratory i= s pleased to announce the availability of the following open-source software= on github:

DLEP implementation: https://github.com/mit-ll/LL-DLEP


Integration of EMANE RF-PIPE model wit= h LL-DLEP: https:/= /github.com/mit-ll/emane-dlep-layer
       = ; 
Enjoy!

David

=
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[69.250.229.191]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id a47sm11773342qtc.17.2016.12.19.16.39.03 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 19 Dec 2016 16:39:03 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-E650918F-6146-4310-AF23-6565CEBECDC9 Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) From: Mihir Sevak X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (14C92) In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2016 19:39:02 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: References: To: "Wiggins, David - 0665 - MITLL" Archived-At: Cc: "manet@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [manet] DLEP software on github X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2016 00:39:07 -0000 --Apple-Mail-E650918F-6146-4310-AF23-6565CEBECDC9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cool.=20 Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 19, 2016, at 4:37 PM, Wiggins, David - 0665 - MITLL wrote: >=20 > MIT Lincoln Laboratory is pleased to announce the availability of the foll= owing open-source software on github: >=20 > DLEP implementation: https://github.com/mit-ll/LL-DLEP >=20 > DLEP wireshark dissector: https://github.com/mit-ll/dlep-wireshark-dissect= or >=20 > Integration of EMANE RF-PIPE model with LL-DLEP: https://github.com/mit-ll= /emane-dlep-layer > =20 > Enjoy! >=20 > David >=20 > _______________________________________________ > manet mailing list > manet@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet --Apple-Mail-E650918F-6146-4310-AF23-6565CEBECDC9 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Cool. 

Sent from my iPhone=

On Dec 19, 2016, at 4:37 PM, Wiggins, David - 0665 - MITLL &l= t;David.Wiggins@ll.mit.edu&g= t; wrote:

MIT Lincoln L= aboratory is pleased to announce the availability of the following open-sour= ce software on github:

DLEP implementation: https://github.com/mit-ll/LL-DLE= P


Integration of EMANE RF-= PIPE model with LL-DLEP: https://github.com/mit-ll/emane-dlep-layer
  &nb= sp;     
Enjoy!

David

____________________= ___________________________
manet mailing list
manet@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mai= lman/listinfo/manet
= --Apple-Mail-E650918F-6146-4310-AF23-6565CEBECDC9-- From nobody Tue Dec 20 02:26:10 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F139129563 for ; Tue, 20 Dec 2016 02:26:09 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.001 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-3.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7XJeftl2ELsC for ; Tue, 20 Dec 2016 02:26:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tropicalstormsoftware.com (mail.tropicalstormsoftware.com [188.94.42.120]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C223E129560 for ; Tue, 20 Dec 2016 02:26:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from tss-server1.home.tropicalstormsoftware.com ([fe80::753b:fa82:5c0:af0d]) by tss-server1.home.tropicalstormsoftware.com ([fe80::753b:fa82:5c0:af0d%10]) with mapi; Tue, 20 Dec 2016 10:25:38 +0000 From: Rick Taylor To: "David.Wiggins@ll.mit.edu" , "manet@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [manet] DLEP software on github Thread-Index: AQHSWqtooJkWtQ/jTEWORfZZlqd3Ow== Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2016 10:25:39 +0000 Message-ID: <1482229539.10187.4.camel@tropicalstormsoftware.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [manet] DLEP software on github X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: 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requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C516A126579 for ; Tue, 20 Dec 2016 02:36:59 -0800 (PST) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.33,378,1477958400"; d="scan'208";a="47693603" Received: from unknown (HELO baemasmds016.greenlnk.net) ([10.15.207.101]) by ukmta2.baesystems.com with ESMTP; 20 Dec 2016 10:36:57 +0000 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.33,378,1477958400"; d="scan'208";a="148666083" Received: from glkxh0003v.greenlnk.net ([10.109.2.34]) by baemasmds016.greenlnk.net with ESMTP; 20 Dec 2016 10:36:58 +0000 Received: from GLKXM0003V.GREENLNK.net ([169.254.4.250]) by GLKXH0003V.GREENLNK.net ([10.109.2.34]) with mapi id 14.03.0248.002; Tue, 20 Dec 2016 10:36:57 +0000 From: "Dearlove, Christopher (UK)" To: Rick Taylor , "David.Wiggins@ll.mit.edu" , "manet@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [manet] DLEP software on github Thread-Index: AQHSWkAouLDjROqd00iIo49M6IKET6EQolGAgAAC3oA= Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2016 10:36:57 +0000 Message-ID: References: <1482229539.10187.4.camel@tropicalstormsoftware.com> In-Reply-To: <1482229539.10187.4.camel@tropicalstormsoftware.com> Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.109.62.6] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [manet] DLEP software on github X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2016 10:37:01 -0000 SXMgdGhpcyBmb3IgdGhlIGxhdGVzdCB2ZXJzaW9uIG9mIHRoZSBETEVQIGRyYWZ0Pw0KDQotLSAN CkNocmlzdG9waGVyIERlYXJsb3ZlDQpTZW5pb3IgUHJpbmNpcGFsIEVuZ2luZWVyDQpCQUUgU3lz dGVtcyBBcHBsaWVkIEludGVsbGlnZW5jZSBMYWJvcmF0b3JpZXMNCl9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f 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ZW0gYW5kIG5vdGlmeSB0aGUgc2VuZGVyLgpZb3Ugc2hvdWxkIG5vdCBjb3B5IGl0IG9yIHVzZSBp dCBmb3IgYW55IHB1cnBvc2Ugbm9yIGRpc2Nsb3NlIG9yCmRpc3RyaWJ1dGUgaXRzIGNvbnRlbnRz IHRvIGFueSBvdGhlciBwZXJzb24uCioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioq KioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqCg== From nobody Tue Dec 20 05:15:25 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D749C1296DE for ; Tue, 20 Dec 2016 05:15:23 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7.299 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.299 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-3.1, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id v41wZ4DxUCg5 for ; Tue, 20 Dec 2016 05:15:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from llmx2.ll.mit.edu (LLMX2.LL.MIT.EDU [129.55.12.48]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD4C51296D8 for ; Tue, 20 Dec 2016 05:15:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from LLE2K10-HUB02.mitll.ad.local (LLE2K10-HUB02.mitll.ad.local) by llmx2.ll.mit.edu (unknown) with ESMTP id uBKD9pBn031667; Tue, 20 Dec 2016 08:09:53 -0500 From: "Wiggins, David - 0665 - MITLL" To: "Dearlove, Christopher (UK)" , Rick Taylor , "manet@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [manet] DLEP software on github Thread-Index: AQHSWkAouLDjROqd00iIo49M6IKET6EQ9iKAgAADKYD//9fPAA== Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2016 13:13:07 +0000 Message-ID: References: <1482229539.10187.4.camel@tropicalstormsoftware.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [172.25.59.174] Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="B_3565066387_3377524" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:, , definitions=2016-12-20_07:, , signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 spamscore=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1612050000 definitions=main-1612200172 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [manet] DLEP software on github X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2016 13:15:24 -0000 --B_3565066387_3377524 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit This implements draft 24. I plan to keep updating it as time permits. The addition of TLS in draft 26 seems like a relatively large effort compared to the other changes, so I'm not sure if/when we'll get to that. David On 12/20/16, 5:36 AM, "Dearlove, Christopher (UK)" wrote: >Is this for the latest version of the DLEP draft? > >-- >Christopher Dearlove >Senior Principal Engineer >BAE Systems Applied Intelligence Laboratories >__________________________________________________________________________ > >T: +44 (0)1245 242194 | E: chris.dearlove@baesystems.com > >BAE Systems Applied Intelligence, Chelmsford Technology Park, Great >Baddow, Chelmsford, Essex CM2 8HN. >www.baesystems.com/ai >BAE Systems Applied Intelligence Limited >Registered in England & Wales No: 01337451 >Registered Office: Surrey Research Park, Guildford, Surrey, GU2 7YP > >-----Original Message----- >From: manet [mailto:manet-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Rick Taylor >Sent: 20 December 2016 10:26 >To: David.Wiggins@ll.mit.edu; manet@ietf.org >Subject: Re: [manet] DLEP software on github > >----------------------! WARNING ! ---------------------- This message >originates from outside our organisation, either from an external partner >or from the internet. >Consider carefully whether you should click on any links, open any >attachments or reply. >Follow the 'Report Suspicious Emails' link on IT matters for instructions >on reporting suspicious email messages. >-------------------------------------------------------- > >*** WARNING *** >EXTERNAL EMAIL -- This message originates from outside our organization. > > >Thank you very much David and your team. I can see this being very handy >for implementers and evaluators. > >Rick > >On Mon, 2016-12-19 at 21:37 +0000, Wiggins, David - 0665 - MITLL wrote: >> MIT Lincoln Laboratory is pleased to announce the availability of the >> following open-source software on github: >> >> DLEP implementation: https://github.com/mit-ll/LL-DLEP >> >> DLEP wireshark dissector: https://github.com/mit-ll/dlep-wireshark-di >> ssector >> >> Integration of EMANE RF-PIPE model with LL-DLEP: https://github.com/m >> it-ll/emane-dlep-layer >> >> Enjoy! >> >> David >> >> _______________________________________________ >> manet mailing list >> manet@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet >_______________________________________________ >manet mailing list >manet@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet >******************************************************************** >This email and any attachments are confidential to the intended >recipient and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended >recipient please delete it from your system and notify the sender. >You should not copy it or use it for any purpose nor disclose or >distribute its contents to any other person. >******************************************************************** --B_3565066387_3377524 Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" MIIMEgYJKoZIhvcNAQcCoIIMAzCCC/8CAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMAsGCSqGSIb3DQEHAaCC CfUwggT1MIID3aADAgECAgoY4rwNAAAAAHNuMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBCwUAMFExCzAJBgNVBAYT AlVTMR8wHQYDVQQKExZNSVQgTGluY29sbiBMYWJvcmF0b3J5MQwwCgYDVQQLEwNQS0kxEzAR BgNVBAMTCk1JVExMIENBLTMwHhcNMTYwMjEwMTMwNjAwWhcNMTkwMjA5MTMwNjAwWjBiMQsw CQYDVQQGEwJVUzEfMB0GA1UEChMWTUlUIExpbmNvbG4gTGFib3JhdG9yeTEPMA0GA1UECxMG UGVvcGxlMSEwHwYDVQQDExhXaWdnaW5zLkRhdmlkLlAuNTAwMTUyMDcwggEiMA0GCSqGSIb3 DQEBAQUAA4IBDwAwggEKAoIBAQCiKFVMUMne1LGJfzRn943ZeccfuQI37zhvT3/LYCK/6Yaa jKbXmDz3AoT/XI551vtwvvc0wQNRfNIkB0oYfa8OkD+EYqO3sDV4IejFP9XQKkRxgb3bESa8 Frl30C0vScQ3A8h3mSQ8lFOLgo3ndiGnfF0mtUt2TbE7LAO4Jn3yxw1JqXgDk/gbXBy3zSsj uqQeWWlj2OQ3D1WBTM0fEZjMLCUfAANHxE58isDHHksnlm20EOBoaqNStCcYbFQNSjlBQ0ng 0dky+2Wx8lllMttw0R9oznENQ6RKLrzQaTSQ5tRjYpGLGIPxAhPL7MWerZrDZrdsjwTMJoge +siq0HJdAgMBAAGjggG8MIIBuDAdBgNVHQ4EFgQUIABH8cDVoyihib5dIjevNJCX+r4wDgYD VR0PAQH/BAQDAgbAMB8GA1UdIwQYMBaAFNdgZg57SY11TA39z0beyMcSh8q/MDMGA1UdHwQs MCowKKAmoCSGImh0dHA6Ly9jcmwubGwubWl0LmVkdS9nZXRjcmwvTExDQTMwZgYIKwYBBQUH AQEEWjBYMC0GCCsGAQUFBzAChiFodHRwOi8vY3JsLmxsLm1pdC5lZHUvZ2V0dG8vTExDQTMw JwYIKwYBBQUHMAGGG2h0dHA6Ly9vY3NwLmxsLm1pdC5lZHUvb2NzcDA9BgkrBgEEAYI3FQcE MDAuBiYrBgEEAYI3FQiDg+Udh+ynZoathxWD6vBFhbahHx2Fy94yh/+KcwIBZAIBBjAiBgNV HSUBAf8EGDAWBggrBgEFBQcDBAYKKwYBBAGCNwoDDDAYBgNVHSAEETAPMA0GCyqGSIb3EgIB AwEIMCMGA1UdEQQcMBqBGERhdmlkLldpZ2dpbnNAbGwubWl0LmVkdTAnBgkrBgEEAYI3FAIE Gh4YAEwATABVAHMAZQByAFMAaQBnAC0AUwBXMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBCwUAA4IBAQBFmdkJgK08 BFDtjsYcbWuUE5mzlX/7RoxLNHbg/yc5w8QnpzblBYAKH4bCZJVBfPA6I7hTrOdTs/zp4LWo lD4tyS5Nz3+D4UrBCccvoOSdccD4R4hhqCLLUwX58GHETEafw6G+HbadVhFtmIdc1l23rwCw c/U2/I2Apl6R7bfpYXHCdPc0qW2ierJVPQUDtacF7vOLDRwLc7XqL1V+TfMU1yxaClfQbNXD auyuCDzQgMN1lvAMvUaA7EeUlZ8aQRwOmMMiaqDXftUp5aAufYz0oKHNwhrLlmssypjKJ0pP e3VJ6Lo6Ujx0v7GfXyW1xBDpe2GX6WQLYSfgwjU8XF6sMIIE+DCCA+CgAwIBAgIKWrCpkwAA AAA2DzANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQsFADBRMQswCQYDVQQGEwJVUzEfMB0GA1UEChMWTUlUIExpbmNv bG4gTGFib3JhdG9yeTEMMAoGA1UECxMDUEtJMRMwEQYDVQQDEwpNSVRMTCBDQS0zMB4XDTE1 MDQwNjEyMDAyNloXDTE2MDQwNTEyMDAyNlowYjELMAkGA1UEBhMCVVMxHzAdBgNVBAoTFk1J VCBMaW5jb2xuIExhYm9yYXRvcnkxDzANBgNVBAsTBlBlb3BsZTEhMB8GA1UEAxMYV2lnZ2lu cy5EYXZpZC5QLjUwMDE1MjA3MIIBIjANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQEFAAOCAQ8AMIIBCgKCAQEAlEWD uIm5kuHghfe7O+eMLVena6sNfAZtHLp2mwXLrNshaHM6wVKmml8zhxeSmJJXTF3Owyn7imKs vHMWcIJD9EoFQyJoeBaFV5Ll75/fE2WKswtGn9ZSSejplI/Iy99SI/9Lna5B7/BDmPozGn66 jdzgl+JVFptqEUGx5NZlRUEEtVtXYUy+PllIq6SpR/242wFiYVslFqSoHu789mexaDDAl7p7 z3W9cYidPtZUoysjW0omzwZIoYMsIhTbUMnv+TkBuhJErBmaNvAXPf8Y3pNf3pYz8pnR4MyI ibFv2CS/2KLGxJRE9xt1nrgHT8Wx+E6Ro6IYkYLPSdE6YgYAgwIDAQABo4IBvzCCAbswHQYD VR0OBBYEFGww5LYEZSoVOkuJ7ZVJS+35ChrUMA4GA1UdDwEB/wQEAwIFIDAfBgNVHSMEGDAW gBTXYGYOe0mNdUwN/c9G3sjHEofKvzAzBgNVHR8ELDAqMCigJqAkhiJodHRwOi8vY3JsLmxs Lm1pdC5lZHUvZ2V0Y3JsL0xMQ0EzMGYGCCsGAQUFBwEBBFowWDAtBggrBgEFBQcwAoYhaHR0 cDovL2NybC5sbC5taXQuZWR1L2dldHRvL0xMQ0EzMCcGCCsGAQUFBzABhhtodHRwOi8vb2Nz cC5sbC5taXQuZWR1L29jc3AwPQYJKwYBBAGCNxUHBDAwLgYmKwYBBAGCNxUIg4PlHYfsp2aG rYcVg+rwRYW2oR8dhevQcIPr7SACAWQCAQQwJQYDVR0lBB4wHAYEVR0lAAYIKwYBBQUHAwQG CisGAQQBgjcKAwQwGAYDVR0gBBEwDzANBgsqhkiG9xICAQMBCDAjBgNVHREEHDAagRhEYXZp ZC5XaWdnaW5zQGxsLm1pdC5lZHUwJwYJKwYBBAGCNxQCBBoeGABMAEwAVQBzAGUAcgBFAG4A YwAtAFMAVzANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQsFAAOCAQEATCsJT66TKeYNh9hrcC1wxRH08CricKt9JktB I1WWl48F4CqcYDZlLMpvHuSe6GezZzTUH4oq1y2q3um9Txh1NjLPT7j0k5SSwdr2V7d8upDN WOrXvCi59Cyz5RvuhleCPIE+6wPyDrQwfBRhte/cv8PVOrsG4tio4VOHi/nXcS+HLgC5qNxk 1/w1UBf8QkkNP8kIgum/uItm4QwVdVAJMuwe3te8dYjtp3M5nC2exfqQfk+Mmw/8fdZFpch0 rSYbpchMMOueBuy2UnWaYBF84uXldBH9fkONRX8AL8EQ3sQEOyzxqpwKQ/d0itjAGaPCCJCI VgnSYSWYoFiN9idyaTGCAeUwggHhAgEBMF8wUTELMAkGA1UEBhMCVVMxHzAdBgNVBAoTFk1J VCBMaW5jb2xuIExhYm9yYXRvcnkxDDAKBgNVBAsTA1BLSTETMBEGA1UEAxMKTUlUTEwgQ0Et MwIKGOK8DQAAAABzbjAJBgUrDgMCGgUAoF0wIwYJKoZIhvcNAQkEMRYEFAh+67EQ9y6XWYGy 2HcrhgGitfGyMBgGCSqGSIb3DQEJAzELBgkqhkiG9w0BBwEwHAYJKoZIhvcNAQkFMQ8XDTE2 MTIyMDEzMTMwN1owDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEBBQAEggEAM8kHQkvFijWQuNBznLYDFawTzDPUvdM9 bvkEUuANZU7GkyUxFZjcZ7ozziFDNwtq/8TknJyZTEtQRkLj0Q5v7KpJFjYFtMAARYoaNMbK pM0Yxg51/cXDEiaDLAhYoXZTlBduIBpuBjd7ixLNJYGL4VS7LETCnBPhN3uCtwiP7qMG05E8 P2v5bqJveOr/hQjoFeQceJCpJiAb43zx12V/CaKksZ5N8uWtoD3exUTmNSHWZww5RJJWy3nY ukaptjSeTmDGhvnZA+TDWrdTE2yLD7tEN82Pf12aDDd2VeP6Gqsnj3ijcsKITI8WNwaywfe4 vbOVLLcVhBmu8SGXvFGlHw== --B_3565066387_3377524-- From nobody Tue Dec 20 05:20:33 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D2891296D8 for ; Tue, 20 Dec 2016 05:20:32 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.127 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.127 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RDNS_NONE=0.793] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zT1hVLDciXzR for ; Tue, 20 Dec 2016 05:20:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from ukmta2.baesystems.com (unknown [20.133.0.56]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AEC611296C1 for ; Tue, 20 Dec 2016 05:20:28 -0800 (PST) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.33,378,1477958400"; d="scan'208";a="47710450" Received: from unknown (HELO baemasmds016.greenlnk.net) ([10.15.207.101]) by ukmta2.baesystems.com with ESMTP; 20 Dec 2016 13:20:27 +0000 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.33,378,1477958400"; d="scan'208";a="148705264" Received: from glkxh0005v.greenlnk.net ([10.109.2.36]) by baemasmds016.greenlnk.net with ESMTP; 20 Dec 2016 13:20:27 +0000 Received: from GLKXM0003V.GREENLNK.net ([169.254.4.250]) by GLKXH0005V.GREENLNK.net ([10.109.2.36]) with mapi id 14.03.0248.002; Tue, 20 Dec 2016 13:20:27 +0000 From: "Dearlove, Christopher (UK)" To: "Wiggins, David - 0665 - MITLL" , Rick Taylor , "manet@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [manet] DLEP software on github Thread-Index: AQHSWkAouLDjROqd00iIo49M6IKET6EQolGAgAAC3oCAACvsgIAAAdEA Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2016 13:20:26 +0000 Message-ID: References: <1482229539.10187.4.camel@tropicalstormsoftware.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.109.62.6] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [manet] DLEP software on github X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2016 13:20:32 -0000 I don't think we yet know what the final word on TLS is going to be. --=20 Christopher Dearlove Senior Principal Engineer BAE Systems Applied Intelligence Laboratories __________________________________________________________________________ T: =A0+44 (0)1245 242194 =A0| =A0E: chris.dearlove@baesystems.com BAE Systems Applied Intelligence, Chelmsford Technology Park, Great Baddow,= Chelmsford, Essex CM2 8HN. www.baesystems.com/ai BAE Systems Applied Intelligence Limited Registered in England & Wales No: 01337451 Registered Office: Surrey Research Park, Guildford, Surrey, GU2 7YP -----Original Message----- From: Wiggins, David - 0665 - MITLL [mailto:David.Wiggins@ll.mit.edu]=20 Sent: 20 December 2016 13:13 To: Dearlove, Christopher (UK); Rick Taylor; manet@ietf.org Subject: Re: [manet] DLEP software on github This implements draft 24. I plan to keep updating it as time permits. The addition of TLS in draft 26 seems like a relatively large effort compared to the other changes, so I'm not sure if/when we'll get to that. David On 12/20/16, 5:36 AM, "Dearlove, Christopher (UK)" wrote: >Is this for the latest version of the DLEP draft? > >--=20 >Christopher Dearlove >Senior Principal Engineer >BAE Systems Applied Intelligence Laboratories >__________________________________________________________________________ > >T: +44 (0)1245 242194 | E: chris.dearlove@baesystems.com > >BAE Systems Applied Intelligence, Chelmsford Technology Park, Great >Baddow, Chelmsford, Essex CM2 8HN. >www.baesystems.com/ai >BAE Systems Applied Intelligence Limited >Registered in England & Wales No: 01337451 >Registered Office: Surrey Research Park, Guildford, Surrey, GU2 7YP > >-----Original Message----- >From: manet [mailto:manet-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Rick Taylor >Sent: 20 December 2016 10:26 >To: David.Wiggins@ll.mit.edu; manet@ietf.org >Subject: Re: [manet] DLEP software on github > >----------------------! WARNING ! ---------------------- This message >originates from outside our organisation, either from an external partner >or from the internet. >Consider carefully whether you should click on any links, open any >attachments or reply. >Follow the 'Report Suspicious Emails' link on IT matters for instructions >on reporting suspicious email messages. >-------------------------------------------------------- > >*** WARNING *** >EXTERNAL EMAIL -- This message originates from outside our organization. > > >Thank you very much David and your team. I can see this being very handy >for implementers and evaluators. > >Rick > >On Mon, 2016-12-19 at 21:37 +0000, Wiggins, David - 0665 - MITLL wrote: >> MIT Lincoln Laboratory is pleased to announce the availability of the >> following open-source software on github: >>=20 >> DLEP implementation: https://github.com/mit-ll/LL-DLEP >>=20 >> DLEP wireshark dissector: https://github.com/mit-ll/dlep-wireshark-di >> ssector >>=20 >> Integration of EMANE RF-PIPE model with LL-DLEP: https://github.com/m >> it-ll/emane-dlep-layer >> =20 >> Enjoy! >>=20 >> David >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> manet mailing list >> manet@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet >_______________________________________________ >manet mailing list >manet@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet >******************************************************************** >This email and any attachments are confidential to the intended >recipient and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended >recipient please delete it from your system and notify the sender. >You should not copy it or use it for any purpose nor disclose or >distribute its contents to any other person. >******************************************************************** From nobody Tue Dec 20 06:39:10 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C655E1299CB; Tue, 20 Dec 2016 06:38:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.954 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.954 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BtUe5s0p2YAG; Tue, 20 Dec 2016 06:38:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from a-painless.mh.aa.net.uk (a-painless.mh.aa.net.uk [81.187.30.51]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3C180129986; Tue, 20 Dec 2016 06:38:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from [81.144.134.66] (helo=[192.168.12.2]) by a-painless.mh.aa.net.uk with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cJLPj-0004RL-Ma; Tue, 20 Dec 2016 14:29:12 +0000 Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2016 14:29:07 +0000 Message-ID: <9jtcxvpuod3tfjyhotq8svng.1482243453005@email.android.com> Importance: normal From: Elwyn Davies To: "Dearlove, Christopher (UK)" , "gen-art@ietf.org" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--_com.samsung.android.email_31337191711178140" Archived-At: Cc: "draft-ietf-manet-olsrv2-sec-threats.all@ietf.org" , "manet@ietf.org" , "ietf@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [manet] Review of draft-ietf-manet-olsrv2-sec-threats-03 X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2016 14:38:41 -0000 ----_com.samsung.android.email_31337191711178140 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGkuClRoYW5rcywgQ2hyaXN0b3BoZXIuClNvLCBJIHRoaW5rIHRoZSBzaXR1YXRpb24gY2FuIGJl IGNsYXJpZmllZCAtIGFuZCB3b3VsZCBoYXZlIHByb3ZpZGVkIGEgY2xlYXJlciBhbnN3ZXIgdG8g bXkgcXVlc3Rpb24gYnnCoDEuIMKgYWRkaW5nIGEgY291cGxlIG9mIHNlbnRlbmNlcyB0byBzNi4y IHRvIHBvaW50IHVwIHRoZSBhbHRlcm5hdGl2ZSBwYWNrZXQgYW5kIG1lc3NhZ2UgcHJvdGVjdGlv bnM7IGFuZMKgMi4gZXhwbGFpbmluZyBpbiBzNi4yLjEgdGhhdCB0aGF0IHRoZSAnaG9sZScgaW4g dGhlIG1pdGlnYXRpb24gb25seSBvY2N1cnMgaWYgbWVzc2FnZSByYXRoZXIgdGhhbiBwYWNrZXQg SUNWcyBhcmUgaW4gdXNlLCBhbmQgdGhlbiBhIG1hbGljaW91cyBub2RlIGNhbiBqdXN0IHVwZGF0 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"draft-ietf-manet-olsrv2-sec-threats.all@ietf.org" , "manet@ietf.org" , "ietf@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [manet] Review of draft-ietf-manet-olsrv2-sec-threats-03 X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2016 18:02:36 -0000 ----_com.samsung.android.email_31456444522916520 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 UmlnaHQsIGl0IGlzIGFsd2F5cyB1cCB0byB0aGUgYXV0aG9ycyAoc3ViamVjdCB0byB3ZyBjb25z ZW5zdXMpLi4uIGJ1dCBpdCBjZXJ0YWlubHkgaGVscHMgbWUgdW5kZXJzdGFuZCAtIHNvIG1hbnkg dGhhbmtzIGZvciB0aGF0LsKgCkNoZWVycyxFbHd5bgoKClNlbnQgZnJvbSBTYW1zdW5nIHRhYmxl dC4KLS0tLS0tLS0gT3JpZ2luYWwgbWVzc2FnZSAtLS0tLS0tLUZyb206ICJEZWFybG92ZSwgQ2hy aXN0b3BoZXIgKFVLKSIgPGNocmlzLmRlYXJsb3ZlQGJhZXN5c3RlbXMuY29tPiBEYXRlOiAyMC8x Mi8yMDE2ICAxNDo1MCAgKEdNVCswMDowMCkgVG86IEVsd3luIERhdmllcyA8ZWx3eW5kQGRpYWwu 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KjxvOnA+PC9vOnA+PC9wPgo8L2Rpdj4KPC9ib2R5PjwvaHRtbD4= ----_com.samsung.android.email_31456444522916520-- From nobody Tue Dec 20 19:11:13 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A5AB129C37 for ; Tue, 20 Dec 2016 19:11:11 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7.299 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.299 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-3.1, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MTMqonZKKstO for ; Tue, 20 Dec 2016 19:11:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from llmx2.ll.mit.edu (LLMX2.LL.MIT.EDU [129.55.12.48]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B573129C36 for ; Tue, 20 Dec 2016 19:11:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from LLE2K10-HUB01.mitll.ad.local (LLE2K10-HUB01.mitll.ad.local) by llmx2.ll.mit.edu (unknown) with ESMTP id uBL35dj6004052; Tue, 20 Dec 2016 22:05:39 -0500 From: "Cheng, Bow-Nan - 0665 - MITLL" To: "Wiggins, David - 0665 - MITLL" , "Dearlove, Christopher (UK)" , Rick Taylor , "manet@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [manet] DLEP software on github Thread-Index: AQHSWkAojiScUz7NCEiVBQRk1eOsOKEQ9iKAgAADKYCAACuhgIAAli2A Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2016 03:11:05 +0000 Message-ID: References: <1482229539.10187.4.camel@tropicalstormsoftware.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.7.0.161029 x-originating-ip: [172.26.147.86] Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="B_3565116637_6073464" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:, , definitions=2016-12-20_19:, , signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 spamscore=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1612050000 definitions=main-1612210046 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [manet] DLEP software on github X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2016 03:11:11 -0000 --B_3565116637_6073464 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I think what David didn't mention (which is the coolest part) is that the LL-DLEP implementation allows you to configure different past DLEP Draft versions (up to a certain point, for instance, UDP of draft 03 is not supported) with just XML files (see https://github.com/mit-ll/LL-DLEP/blob/master/config/protocol/dlep-draft-24 .xml) Additionally, adding new metrics and other extensions require only XML config changes as long as they use the standard types so people can explore different metrics and names easily with no code change. -Bow-Nan On 12/20/16, 8:13 AM, "manet on behalf of Wiggins, David - 0665 - MITLL" wrote: >This implements draft 24. I plan to keep updating it as time permits. >The addition of TLS in draft 26 seems like a relatively large effort >compared to the other changes, so I'm not sure if/when we'll get to that. > >David > >On 12/20/16, 5:36 AM, "Dearlove, Christopher (UK)" > wrote: > >>Is this for the latest version of the DLEP draft? >> >>-- >>Christopher Dearlove >>Senior Principal Engineer >>BAE Systems Applied Intelligence Laboratories >>_________________________________________________________________________ >>_ >> >>T: +44 (0)1245 242194 | E: chris.dearlove@baesystems.com >> >>BAE Systems Applied Intelligence, Chelmsford Technology Park, Great >>Baddow, Chelmsford, Essex CM2 8HN. >>www.baesystems.com/ai >>BAE Systems Applied Intelligence Limited >>Registered in England & Wales No: 01337451 >>Registered Office: Surrey Research Park, Guildford, Surrey, GU2 7YP >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: manet [mailto:manet-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Rick Taylor >>Sent: 20 December 2016 10:26 >>To: David.Wiggins@ll.mit.edu; manet@ietf.org >>Subject: Re: [manet] DLEP software on github >> >>----------------------! WARNING ! ---------------------- This message >>originates from outside our organisation, either from an external partner >>or from the internet. >>Consider carefully whether you should click on any links, open any >>attachments or reply. >>Follow the 'Report Suspicious Emails' link on IT matters for instructions >>on reporting suspicious email messages. >>-------------------------------------------------------- >> >>*** WARNING *** >>EXTERNAL EMAIL -- This message originates from outside our organization. >> >> >>Thank you very much David and your team. I can see this being very handy >>for implementers and evaluators. >> >>Rick >> >>On Mon, 2016-12-19 at 21:37 +0000, Wiggins, David - 0665 - MITLL wrote: >>> MIT Lincoln Laboratory is pleased to announce the availability of the >>> following open-source software on github: >>> >>> DLEP implementation: https://github.com/mit-ll/LL-DLEP >>> >>> DLEP wireshark dissector: https://github.com/mit-ll/dlep-wireshark-di >>> ssector >>> >>> Integration of EMANE RF-PIPE model with LL-DLEP: https://github.com/m >>> it-ll/emane-dlep-layer >>> >>> Enjoy! >>> >>> David >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> manet mailing list >>> manet@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet >>_______________________________________________ >>manet mailing list >>manet@ietf.org >>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet >>******************************************************************** >>This email and any attachments are confidential to the intended >>recipient and may also be privileged. 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