From nobody Fri Jun 2 16:23:45 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C264C129B62 for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2017 00:58:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.502 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.502 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IgX9TgRwAlHN for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2017 00:58:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mlbxsmtp01.harris.com (mlbxsmtpout01.harris.com [192.52.234.91]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F10D1314B2 for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2017 00:58:22 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c034ea5a-4ddff70000000ab5-cf-59311a9c2df4 Received: from MLBXCH18.cs.myharris.net ( [10.64.224.136]) by mlbxsmtp01.harris.com (mail) with SMTP id 8B.CC.02741.C9A11395; Fri, 2 Jun 2017 03:58:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from MLBXCH18.cs.myharris.net (10.64.224.136) by MLBXCH18.cs.myharris.net (10.64.224.136) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1263.5; Fri, 2 Jun 2017 03:58:19 -0400 Received: from MLBXCH18.cs.myharris.net ([10.64.224.162]) by MLBXCH18.cs.myharris.net ([10.64.224.162]) with mapi id 15.00.1263.000; Fri, 2 Jun 2017 03:58:19 -0400 From: "Morgan, Keith" To: Rick Taylor , "manet@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [manet] Mail regarding draft-dlep-lid Thread-Index: AdLaEhVjbxwzcZvASRi0De17cHVqkQALZj2AAE17RfA= Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2017 07:58:18 +0000 Message-ID: <61e159c5594246d8afa42b5ee5cda557@MLBXCH18.cs.myharris.net> References: <63448cdd41fa4c94a44a390dd10848a1@MLBXCH18.cs.myharris.net> <1496242619.3129.19.camel@tropicalstormsoftware.com> In-Reply-To: <1496242619.3129.19.camel@tropicalstormsoftware.com> Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US 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v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=rq+EQYN2j7RUtCVi+SZBb1ay5nUT9GX10+7JhqODQSs=; b=sF1oxFghxkJGSQ2uPgQOWTKyiFnjFqoBh6FoIvvu/PkbZ+w7Y/F9dDZaNdtNi/XtCn zR5SPpc22NMX7TWLbrEieNqWd8s0yrXlliR8VRjkCF4ZU79pAkVuSfAw8S/Y2/LetDAY HaICa7HQHNUphlhRBWlf7R7SDrDU3uutRqSdE9FaI2Oezdb2o8tFTqLMeJMYmLRLr7WU j7hVKzDm5ltrOUKKd2LV+eHzUL335BRIz9oZYoiEneiXLi7m3Bit8s+B74szDCW46GDa f2x4WXQxfiNGi7b6h/r5agJSntin6NNVXEu4AzLE56gn1dtGGPmys/ZmdgceeBnIZPxR kiXg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=rq+EQYN2j7RUtCVi+SZBb1ay5nUT9GX10+7JhqODQSs=; b=h/b+Hh/h6B8ZRtjbSO9LYMxPdy3z7Ykt80IIFspzFejNJ8OHTZ4pZi6qUQ4yOE/d2s G80tIFk4QKItfrCAml3FLaeimLm3FAIVC1EJXTbS7xqrM/le70UleUmCJ5lVQ6mF7TXV DUluetMOA6GCroQ4m0OMYxJCSbSM8Ul+kmqvWia+gLSeR1wtMrSsqFKs89rE4gSjORJA 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manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2017 16:15:24 -0000 --94eb2c08ee2c79a9b1055124b1a2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, So, what about the notion of allocating a 64-bit quantity for the LID? That way, a MAC address would fit, and by definition, all LIDs would be the same length. We can specify the characteristics of the data in the LID (right-justify, fill character 0x00, etc). Or, we could even use the first octet of that 64-bit quantity as a set of bit flags to indicate what's in the LID (e.g., is it a MAC address, or an integer, or...) Regards, Stan On Fri, Jun 2, 2017 at 3:58 AM, Morgan, Keith wrote: > Hi, > > We have to provide the MAC address in the current protocol so we think it > makes sense to use it if Link ID's are accepted. > > I think all Link ID's should be the same length in a session, to keep it > simple. > > Regards > > Keith > > Keith Morgan > Director of Engineering > COMMUNICATION SYSTEMS / HARRIS DEFENCE LIMITED > Office: +44 (0)1256 383132 / Mobile: +44 (0)7917 012248 > www.harris.com / Keith.Morgan@Harris.com > Jays Close, Viables Estate, Basingstoke, Hampshire, RG22 4BA, United > Kingdom > > > > > > Registered in England No. 2803090 Harris Defence Limited a UK Subsidiary > of Harris Corporation, USA > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This email and any attachments may contain > material that is "Harris Proprietary Information" for the sole use of the > intended recipient. Any review, reliance, distribution, disclosure, or > forwarding without expressed permission is strictly prohibited. If you a= re > not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copi= es > without reading, printing, or saving in any manner. Thank You. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rick Taylor [mailto:rick@tropicalstormsoftware.com] > Sent: 31 May 2017 15:57 > To: Morgan, Keith (Non U.S.); manet@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [manet] Mail regarding draft-dlep-lid > > Hi Keith, > > Comments inline... > > On Wed, 2017-05-31 at 13:30 +0000, Morgan, Keith wrote: > > Hello, > > > > I have been reviewing the proposed Link Identifier Extension to DLEP > > and have the following comments: > > Thanks for the quick review! > > > > > The focus of the proposal appears to be to enable Routers to identify > > where they cannot reach Destinations via the MAC address provided in > > the Destination Up message. This would be the case with our Modem. > > > > Our current implementation does use =E2=80=9Csleight-of-hand=E2=80=9D a= nd will report > > both the MAC address and IP address in the Destination Up message, > > however the Destination is only reachable via its IP address. > > This is one of the use-cases I was trying to fix, so I'm glad it helps. > > > > > The concept proposed appears sound; my immediate suggestion would be > > to recommend a length of 6 bytes for the identifier, this would allow > > the Modem to use the MAC address of the destination which should > > ensure uniqueness while allowing the router to determine how to > > address packets to the Destination based on the use of the Link > > Identifier Data Item. > > 4 is only RECOMMENDED. As a variable length field, Link Id's can be any > length, so if you want to use 6, that's fine. I only picked 4 as I > imagined people had integer values and felt I had to recommend something = to > point people away from using SHA1 hashes or something huge (although they > still can). > > It's interesting that your Link Ids actually are MACs, but by using Link > Ids not MAC Address Data Items you are being explicit that the MACs can't > be used in frames. I hadn't thought of this use-case, but I'm glad it > works for you! > > One thing that is probably missing is a requirement that all Link Ids > should be the same length during a session. Do people think this is a > valid restriction? > > Cheers, > > Rick > _______________________________________________ > manet mailing list > manet@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet > --94eb2c08ee2c79a9b1055124b1a2 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,=C2=A0

So, what about the notion of = allocating a 64-bit quantity for the LID? That way, a MAC address would fit= , and by definition, all LIDs would be the same length. We can specify the = characteristics of the data in the LID (right-justify, fill character 0x00,= etc). Or, we could even use the first octet of that 64-bit quantity as a s= et of bit flags to indicate what's in the LID (e.g., is it a MAC addres= s, or an integer, or...)

Regards,
Stan


On Fri, Jun 2, 2017 at 3:58 AM, Morgan, Keith <= ;kmorga07@harris.c= om> wrote:
Hi,

We have to provide the MAC address in the current protocol so we think it m= akes sense to use it if Link ID's are accepted.

I think all Link ID's should be the same length in a session, to keep i= t simple.

Regards
=C2=A0
Keith

Keith Morgan
Director of Engineering
COMMUNICATION SYSTEMS / HARRIS DEFENCE LIMITED
Office: +44 (0)1256 383132 / Mobile: +44 (0)7917 012248
www.= harris.com / Keith.Morgan@Harris.com
Jays Close, Viables Estate, Basingstoke, Hampshire, RG22 4BA, United Kingdo= m





Registered in England No. 2803090 Harris Defence Limited a UK Subsidiary of= Harris Corporation, USA
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE:=C2=A0 This email and any attachments may contain ma= terial that is "Harris Proprietary Information" for the sole use = of the intended recipient.=C2=A0 Any review, reliance, distribution, disclo= sure, or forwarding without expressed permission is strictly prohibited.=C2= =A0 If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and de= lete all copies without reading, printing, or saving in any manner.=C2=A0 T= hank You.


-----Original Message-----
From: Rick Taylor [mailto:rick@tropicalstormsoftware.com]
Sent: 31 May 2017 15:57
To: Morgan, Keith (Non U.S.); manet@ietf.= org
Subject: Re: [manet] Mail regarding draft-dlep-lid

Hi Keith,

Comments inline...

On Wed, 2017-05-31 at 13:30 +0000, Morgan, Keith wrote:
> Hello,
> =C2=A0
> I have been reviewing the proposed Link Identifier Extension to DLEP > and have the following comments:

Thanks for the quick review!

> =C2=A0
> The focus of the proposal appears to be to enable Routers to identify<= br> > where they cannot reach Destinations via the MAC address provided in > the Destination Up message. This would be the case with our Modem.
> =C2=A0
> Our current implementation does use =E2=80=9Csleight-of-hand=E2=80=9D = and will report
> both the MAC address and IP address in the Destination Up message,
> however the Destination is only reachable via its IP address.

This is one of the use-cases I was trying to fix, so I'm glad it helps.=

> =C2=A0
> The concept proposed appears sound; my immediate suggestion would be > to recommend a length of 6 bytes for the identifier, this would allow<= br> > the Modem to use the MAC address of the destination which should
> ensure uniqueness while allowing the router to determine how to
> address packets to the Destination based on the use of the Link
> Identifier Data Item.

4 is only RECOMMENDED.=C2=A0 As a variable length field, Link Id's can = be any length, so if you want to use 6, that's fine.=C2=A0 I only picke= d 4 as I imagined people had integer values and felt I had to recommend som= ething to point people away from using SHA1 hashes or something huge (altho= ugh they still can).

It's interesting that your Link Ids actually are MACs, but by using Lin= k Ids not MAC Address Data Items you are being explicit that the MACs can&#= 39;t be used in frames.=C2=A0 I hadn't thought of this use-case, but I&= #39;m glad it works for you!

One thing that is probably missing is a requirement that all Link Ids shoul= d be the same length during a session.=C2=A0 Do people think this is a vali= d restriction?

Cheers,

Rick
_______________________________________________
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--94eb2c08ee2c79a9b1055124b1a2-- From nobody Mon Jun 5 05:01:38 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07DB712947C for ; Mon, 5 Jun 2017 05:01:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8IKt2pGa2BiE for ; Mon, 5 Jun 2017 05:01:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tropicalstormsoftware.com (mail.tropicalstormsoftware.com [188.94.42.120]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B5F53127F0E 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Archived-At: Subject: Re: [manet] Mail regarding draft-dlep-lid X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2017 12:01:37 -0000 U3RhbiwNCg0KSSB0aGluayB5b3UncmUgb3Zlci1jb21wbGljYXRpbmcgdGhpcy4gwqBHaXZlbiBh IERhdGEgSXRlbSBpcyBhIFRMViwNCnRoZW4gYXMgbG9uZyBhcyB0aGUgbGVuZ3RocyBhcmUgY29u c2lzdGVudCBvbiBhIHBlci1zZXNzaW9uIGJhc2lzLCBJJ2QNCmJlIGhhcHB5IGxldHRpbmcgdGhl IG1vZGVtIGltcGxlbWVudGVyIGRlY2lkZSBvbiB0aGUgbGVuZ3RoLiDCoEFzIGZhciBhcw0KdGhl IHJvdXRlciBpcyBjb25jZXJuZWQsIGl0IHJlYWxseSBkb2Vzbid0IG1hdHRlci4gwqBaZXJvLXBh ZGRpbmcgZml4ZWQNCmxlbmd0aCBmaWVsZHMgc2VlbXMgYSBiaXQgdW53aWVsZHkuLi4NCg0KUmlj aw0KDQoNCg0KT24gU3VuLCAyMDE3LTA2LTA0IGF0IDEyOjE1IC0wNDAwLCBTdGFuIFJhdGxpZmYg d3JvdGU6DQo+IEhpLMKgDQo+IA0KPiBTbywgd2hhdCBhYm91dCB0aGUgbm90aW9uIG9mIGFsbG9j YXRpbmcgYSA2NC1iaXQgcXVhbnRpdHkgZm9yIHRoZQ0KPiBMSUQ/IFRoYXQgd2F5LCBhIE1BQyBh 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[manet] Mail regarding draft-dlep-lid X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2017 13:58:39 -0000 --94eb2c05b602ff9630055136e536 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Jun 5, 2017 at 8:01 AM, Rick Taylor wrote: > Stan, > > I think you're over-complicating this. Given a Data Item is a TLV, > then as long as the lengths are consistent on a per-session basis, I'd > be happy letting the modem implementer decide on the length. As far as > the router is concerned, it really doesn't matter. Zero-padding fixed > length fields seems a bit unwieldy... > I think some more is required. The consistent length is important, because I can see a router implementation wanting to use the LID as a search key in, for example, an AVL tree. Fixed-length keys are required there. And let's consider a failing case - At Destination Up for the first "link", the modem builds a TLV with length 4 and hands the router an integer. At Destination Up for a second link, the modem builds a TLV with length 6, and hands the router a MAC address... What then? If you "kill" the Destination, then which one? Or, in other words, which LID was "right" - the integer LID, or the MAC-based LID? Or, should the entire Peer Session be brought down (which, as we've already agreed, is an awfully big hammer)? My thinking was (and still is) - if you're going to call for "consistent" LIDs (length-wise), then you either have to explicitly state what that LID size is (and possibly be prepared to negotiate the LID size), or allocate sufficient "real-estate" to cover all the possibilities. Regards, Stan > > Rick > > > > On Sun, 2017-06-04 at 12:15 -0400, Stan Ratliff wrote: > > Hi, > > > > So, what about the notion of allocating a 64-bit quantity for the > > LID? That way, a MAC address would fit, and by definition, all LIDs > > would be the same length. We can specify the characteristics of the > > data in the LID (right-justify, fill character 0x00, etc). Or, we > > could even use the first octet of that 64-bit quantity as a set of > > bit flags to indicate what's in the LID (e.g., is it a MAC address, > > or an integer, or...) > > > > Regards, > > Stan > > > > > > On Fri, Jun 2, 2017 at 3:58 AM, Morgan, Keith > > wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > > > We have to provide the MAC address in the current protocol so we > > > think it makes sense to use it if Link ID's are accepted. > > > > > > I think all Link ID's should be the same length in a session, to > > > keep it simple. > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > Keith > > > > > > Keith Morgan > > > Director of Engineering > > > COMMUNICATION SYSTEMS / HARRIS DEFENCE LIMITED > > > Office: +44 (0)1256 383132 / Mobile: +44 (0)7917 012248 > > > www.harris.com / Keith.Morgan@Harris.com > > > Jays Close, Viables Estate, Basingstoke, Hampshire, RG22 4BA, > > > United Kingdom > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Registered in England No. 2803090 Harris Defence Limited a UK > > > Subsidiary of Harris Corporation, USA > > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This email and any attachments may contain > > > material that is "Harris Proprietary Information" for the sole use > > > of the intended recipient. Any review, reliance, distribution, > > > disclosure, or forwarding without expressed permission is strictly > > > prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact > > > the sender and delete all copies without reading, printing, or > > > saving in any manner. Thank You. > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Rick Taylor [mailto:rick@tropicalstormsoftware.com] > > > Sent: 31 May 2017 15:57 > > > To: Morgan, Keith (Non U.S.); manet@ietf.org > > > Subject: Re: [manet] Mail regarding draft-dlep-lid > > > > > > Hi Keith, > > > > > > Comments inline... > > > > > > On Wed, 2017-05-31 at 13:30 +0000, Morgan, Keith wrote: > > > > Hello, > > > > > > > > I have been reviewing the proposed Link Identifier Extension to > > > DLEP > > > > and have the following comments: > > > > > > Thanks for the quick review! > > > > > > > > > > > The focus of the proposal appears to be to enable Routers to > > > identify > > > > where they cannot reach Destinations via the MAC address provided > > > in > > > > the Destination Up message. This would be the case with our > > > Modem. > > > > > > > > Our current implementation does use =E2=80=9Csleight-of-hand=E2=80= =9D and will > > > report > > > > both the MAC address and IP address in the Destination Up > > > message, > > > > however the Destination is only reachable via its IP address. > > > > > > This is one of the use-cases I was trying to fix, so I'm glad it > > > helps. > > > > > > > > > > > The concept proposed appears sound; my immediate suggestion would > > > be > > > > to recommend a length of 6 bytes for the identifier, this would > > > allow > > > > the Modem to use the MAC address of the destination which should > > > > ensure uniqueness while allowing the router to determine how to > > > > address packets to the Destination based on the use of the Link > > > > Identifier Data Item. > > > > > > 4 is only RECOMMENDED. As a variable length field, Link Id's can > > > be any length, so if you want to use 6, that's fine. I only picked > > > 4 as I imagined people had integer values and felt I had to > > > recommend something to point people away from using SHA1 hashes or > > > something huge (although they still can). > > > > > > It's interesting that your Link Ids actually are MACs, but by using > > > Link Ids not MAC Address Data Items you are being explicit that the > > > MACs can't be used in frames. I hadn't thought of this use-case, > > > but I'm glad it works for you! > > > > > > One thing that is probably missing is a requirement that all Link > > > Ids should be the same length during a session. Do people think > > > this is a valid restriction? > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > Rick > > > _______________________________________________ > > > manet mailing list > > > manet@ietf.org > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet > > > --94eb2c05b602ff9630055136e536 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Mon, Jun 5, 2017 at 8:01 AM, Rick Taylor <rick@tropica= lstormsoftware.com> wrote:
= Stan,

I think you're over-complicating this.=C2=A0 Given a Data Item is a TLV= ,
then as long as the lengths are consistent on a per-session basis, I'd<= br> be happy letting the modem implementer decide on the length.=C2=A0 As far a= s
the router is concerned, it really doesn't matter.=C2=A0 Zero-padding f= ixed
length fields seems a bit unwieldy...

I= think some more is required. The consistent length is important, because I= can see a router implementation wanting to use the LID as a search key in,= for example, an AVL tree. Fixed-length keys are required there. And let= 9;s consider a failing case - At Destination Up for the first "link&qu= ot;, the modem builds a TLV with length 4 and hands the router an integer. = At Destination Up for a second link, the modem builds a TLV with length 6, = and hands the router a MAC address...

What then? I= f you "kill" the Destination, then which one? Or, in other words,= which LID was "right" - the integer LID, or the MAC-based LID? O= r, should the entire Peer Session be brought down (which, as we've alre= ady agreed, is an awfully big hammer)?

My thinking= was (and still is) - if you're going to call for "consistent"= ; LIDs (length-wise), then you either have to explicitly state what that LI= D size is (and possibly be prepared to negotiate the LID size), or allocate= sufficient "real-estate" to cover all the possibilities.

Regards,
Stan

=C2=A0

Rick



On Sun, 2017-06-04 at 12:15 -0400, Stan Ratliff wrote:
> Hi,=C2=A0
>
> So, what about the notion of allocating a 64-bit quantity for the
> LID? That way, a MAC address would fit, and by definition, all LIDs > would be the same length. We can specify the characteristics of the > data in the LID (right-justify, fill character 0x00, etc). Or, we
> could even use the first octet of that 64-bit quantity as a set of
> bit flags to indicate what's in the LID (e.g., is it a MAC address= ,
> or an integer, or...)
>
> Regards,
> Stan
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 2, 2017 at 3:58 AM, Morgan, Keith <kmorga07@harris.com>
> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > We have to provide the MAC address in the current protocol so we<= br> > > think it makes sense to use it if Link ID's are accepted.
> >
> > I think all Link ID's should be the same length in a session,= to
> > keep it simple.
> >
> > Regards
> > =C2=A0
> > Keith
> >
> > Keith Morgan
> > Director of Engineering
> > COMMUNICATION SYSTEMS / HARRIS DEFENCE LIMITED
> > Office: +44 (0)1256 383132 / Mobile: +44 (0)7917 012248
> > www.harris.com / Keith.Morgan@Harris.com
> > Jays Close, Viables Estate, Basingstoke, Hampshire, RG22 4BA,
> > United Kingdom
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Registered in England No. 2803090 Harris Defence Limited a UK
> > Subsidiary of Harris Corporation, USA
> > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE:=C2=A0 This email and any attachments may = contain
> > material that is "Harris Proprietary Information" for t= he sole use
> > of the intended recipient.=C2=A0 Any review, reliance, distributi= on,
> > disclosure, or forwarding without expressed permission is strictl= y
> > prohibited.=C2=A0 If you are not the intended recipient, please c= ontact
> > the sender and delete all copies without reading, printing, or > > saving in any manner.=C2=A0 Thank You.
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Rick Taylor [mailto:rick@tropicalstormsoftware.com]
> > Sent: 31 May 2017 15:57
> > To: Morgan, Keith (Non U.S.); m= anet@ietf.org
> > Subject: Re: [manet] Mail regarding draft-dlep-lid
> >
> > Hi Keith,
> >
> > Comments inline...
> >
> > On Wed, 2017-05-31 at 13:30 +0000, Morgan, Keith wrote:
> > > Hello,
> > > =C2=A0
> > > I have been reviewing the proposed Link Identifier Extension= to
> > DLEP
> > > and have the following comments:
> >
> > Thanks for the quick review!
> >
> > > =C2=A0
> > > The focus of the proposal appears to be to enable Routers to=
> > identify
> > > where they cannot reach Destinations via the MAC address pro= vided
> > in
> > > the Destination Up message. This would be the case with our<= br> > > Modem.
> > > =C2=A0
> > > Our current implementation does use =E2=80=9Csleight-of-hand= =E2=80=9D and will
> > report
> > > both the MAC address and IP address in the Destination Up > > message,
> > > however the Destination is only reachable via its IP address= .
> >
> > This is one of the use-cases I was trying to fix, so I'm glad= it
> > helps.
> >
> > > =C2=A0
> > > The concept proposed appears sound; my immediate suggestion = would
> > be
> > > to recommend a length of 6 bytes for the identifier, this wo= uld
> > allow
> > > the Modem to use the MAC address of the destination which sh= ould
> > > ensure uniqueness while allowing the router to determine how= to
> > > address packets to the Destination based on the use of the L= ink
> > > Identifier Data Item.
> >
> > 4 is only RECOMMENDED.=C2=A0 As a variable length field, Link Id&= #39;s can
> > be any length, so if you want to use 6, that's fine.=C2=A0 I = only picked
> > 4 as I imagined people had integer values and felt I had to
> > recommend something to point people away from using SHA1 hashes o= r
> > something huge (although they still can).
> >
> > It's interesting that your Link Ids actually are MACs, but by= using
> > Link Ids not MAC Address Data Items you are being explicit that t= he
> > MACs can't be used in frames.=C2=A0 I hadn't thought of t= his use-case,
> > but I'm glad it works for you!
> >
> > One thing that is probably missing is a requirement that all Link=
> > Ids should be the same length during a session.=C2=A0 Do people t= hink
> > this is a valid restriction?
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Rick
> > _______________________________________________
> > manet mailing list
> > manet@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mane= t
> >

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<8d83e991-fff6-48e9-8d52-17345b354c94> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [manet] Mail regarding draft-dlep-lid X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2017 15:33:16 -0000 U3RhbiwNCg0KQ29tbWVudHMgaW5saW5lLi4uDQoNCk9uIE1vbiwgMjAxNy0wNi0wNSBhdCAwOTo1 OCAtMDQwMCwgU3RhbiBSYXRsaWZmIHdyb3RlOg0KPiANCj4gDQo+IE9uIE1vbiwgSnVuIDUsIDIw MTcgYXQgODowMSBBTSwgUmljayBUYXlsb3IgPHJpY2tAdHJvcGljYWxzdG9ybXNvZnR3YQ0KPiBy ZS5jb20+IHdyb3RlOg0KPiA+IFN0YW4sDQo+ID4gDQo+ID4gSSB0aGluayB5b3UncmUgb3Zlci1j b21wbGljYXRpbmcgdGhpcy7CoCBHaXZlbiBhIERhdGEgSXRlbSBpcyBhIFRMViwNCj4gPiB0aGVu IGFzIGxvbmcgYXMgdGhlIGxlbmd0aHMgYXJlIGNvbnNpc3RlbnQgb24gYSBwZXItc2Vzc2lvbiBi YXNpcywNCj4gPiBJJ2QNCj4gPiBiZSBoYXBweSBsZXR0aW5nIHRoZSBtb2RlbSBpbXBsZW1lbnRl 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bGQgYmUgc2VlbiBhcyAnY2x1bmt5Jy4NCg0KQ2hlZXJzLA0KDQpSaWNr From nobody Mon Jun 5 09:13:57 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B7EF129B3F for ; Mon, 5 Jun 2017 09:13:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.698 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.698 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SXZz7tcYmnna for ; Mon, 5 Jun 2017 09:13:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-it0-x232.google.com (mail-it0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c0b::232]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 711B3129B16 for ; Mon, 5 Jun 2017 09:13:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-it0-x232.google.com with SMTP id r63so81705514itc.1 for ; Mon, 05 Jun 2017 09:13:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=wAYRVNk8zA4sq6Le6lmjsNDId7aKkLJMKTTYcI8GG9A=; b=Fqvdsqxox8FyhgGEvVhBd/q7BFmiB6j1eF0uFUwoJNedbUFn7WfSXHrtqxK0jow5Kz 4GwZV8FaTwxyznntahwsNMVC0nZ+Prh9DdaK9X+GNC+rBQr2b4J70QAAa2iE1xMhuwAL Yuz3qFg4f0ip2IrX+7u16ztClzrNM+t4nonaPZsV/2L1YJMT/qPHHWjOZiz/q//AbPq2 a72lPW2bw8pH9B5a/gi0LTaVfe/Fyl+rg6prc539zU37qy6i+csyalN2EOtYeFY0xB4q BrNbBykj3hvMW16lVgQodA0YLksP/A6vpIQ11abzpt9ged78VfZqxUA6XcTI8MW3f8Nc 0mqg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; 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<1496242619.3129.19.camel@tropicalstormsoftware.com> <61e159c5594246d8afa42b5ee5cda557@MLBXCH18.cs.myharris.net> <1496664069.3788.31.camel@tropicalstormsoftware.com> <1496676769.3788.60.camel@tropicalstormsoftware.com> From: Stan Ratliff Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2017 12:13:51 -0400 Message-ID: To: Rick Taylor Cc: "kmorga07@harris.com" , "manet@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="94eb2c05b602025c24055138ca98" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [manet] Mail regarding draft-dlep-lid X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2017 16:13:56 -0000 --94eb2c05b602025c24055138ca98 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Mon, Jun 5, 2017 at 11:32 AM, Rick Taylor wrote: > Stan, > > Comments inline... > > On Mon, 2017-06-05 at 09:58 -0400, Stan Ratliff wrote: > > > > > > On Mon, Jun 5, 2017 at 8:01 AM, Rick Taylor > re.com> wrote: > > > Stan, > > > > > > I think you're over-complicating this. Given a Data Item is a TLV, > > > then as long as the lengths are consistent on a per-session basis, > > > I'd > > > be happy letting the modem implementer decide on the length. As > > > far as > > > the router is concerned, it really doesn't matter. Zero-padding > > > fixed > > > length fields seems a bit unwieldy... > > I think some more is required. The consistent length is important, > > because I can see a router implementation wanting to use the LID as a > > search key in, for example, an AVL tree. Fixed-length keys are > > required there. > > Okay, I'll agree with you here - consistent LID lengths make sense. > And, yes, I can see your argument that knowing the size beforehand > does help with hardcoded value fields in search data structures. > Although a malloc equivalent shouldn't hurt too much - hopefully no-one > is writing routers in ADA. > > > And let's consider a failing case - At Destination Up for the first > > "link", the modem builds a TLV with length 4 and hands the router an > > integer. At Destination Up for a second link, the modem builds a TLV > > with length 6, and hands the router a MAC address... > > Again, I agree. If a modem announces the first LID with length 4, then > all further LIDs (for that session) MUST be length 4. Note however > that one can mix and match LIDs with MAC Address Data Items. > > > > > What then? If you "kill" the Destination, then which one? Or, in > > other words, which LID was "right" - the integer LID, or the MAC- > > based LID? Or, should the entire Peer Session be brought down (which, > > as we've already agreed, is an awfully big hammer)? > > I think we are agreeing still: mismatched LIDs = Invalid Data status > code and Terminate. > > > > > My thinking was (and still is) - if you're going to call for > > "consistent" LIDs (length-wise), then you either have to explicitly > > state what that LID size is (and possibly be prepared to negotiate > > the LID size), or allocate sufficient "real-estate" to cover all the > > possibilities. > > I'll try a counter-argument: In core DLEP, a MAC address can be 6 or 8 > octets - you don't know which until you get one, and I'm not sure if we > specify if you are allowed to mix and match. I suggest that LIDs > should follow the same precedent. > It's not exactly the same, though. Here's the relevant text: 13.7. MAC Address The MAC Address Data Item contains the address of the destination on the remote node. DLEP can support MAC addresses in either EUI-48 or EUI-64 format ("EUI" stands for "Extended Unique Identifier"), with the restriction that all MAC addresses for a given DLEP session MUST be in the same format and MUST be consistent with the MAC address format of the connected modem (e.g., if the modem is connected to the router with an EUI-48 MAC, all destination addresses via that modem MUST be expressed in EUI-48 format). Examples of a virtual destination would be (1) a multicast MAC address or (2) the broadcast MAC address (FF:FF:FF:FF:FF:FF). The difference is that the type of MAC is enforced by the connection type of the modem - so the router implementation *does* have a-priori knowledge of the MAC length. > I'm not immediately dismissing the suggestion of a "My LID length is X" > Data Item for use in Session Init, but it could be seen as 'clunky'. > > The only other way I can see is to lift the restriction on LID consistency, other than "they cannot clash". Then, you have to define how "clashing" is determined (for interoperability). For example, "LIDs of different length are to be compared assuming right-justify, fill character 0x00 to achieve equal length). Or something like that. Regards, Stan --94eb2c05b602025c24055138ca98 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Mon, Jun 5, 2017 at 11:32 AM, Rick Taylor <rick@tropic= alstormsoftware.com> wrote:
Stan,

Comments inline...

On Mon, 2017-06-05 at 09:58 -0400, Stan Ratliff wrote:
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 5, 2017 at 8:01 AM, Rick Taylor <rick@tropicalstormsoft= wa
> re.com<= /a>> wrote:
> > Stan,
> >
> > I think you're over-complicating this.=C2=A0 Given a Data Ite= m is a TLV,
> > then as long as the lengths are consistent on a per-session basis= ,
> > I'd
> > be happy letting the modem implementer decide on the length.=C2= =A0 As
> > far as
> > the router is concerned, it really doesn't matter.=C2=A0 Zero= -padding
> > fixed
> > length fields seems a bit unwieldy...
> I think some more is required. The consistent length is important,
> because I can see a router implementation wanting to use the LID as a<= br> > search key in, for example, an AVL tree. Fixed-length keys are
> required there.

Okay, I'll agree with you here - consistent LID lengths make sense.
=C2=A0And, yes, I can see your argument that knowing the size beforehand does help with hardcoded value fields in search data structures.
Although a malloc equivalent shouldn't hurt too much - hopefully no-one=
is writing routers in ADA.

> And let's consider a failing case - At Destination Up for the firs= t
> "link", the modem builds a TLV with length 4 and hands the r= outer an
> integer. At Destination Up for a second link, the modem builds a TLV > with length 6, and hands the router a MAC address...

Again, I agree.=C2=A0 If a modem announces the first LID with length 4, the= n
all further LIDs (for that session) MUST be length 4.=C2=A0 Note however that one can mix and match LIDs with MAC Address Data Items.

>
> What then? If you "kill" the Destination, then which one? Or= , in
> other words, which LID was "right" - the integer LID, or the= MAC-
> based LID? Or, should the entire Peer Session be brought down (which,<= br> > as we've already agreed, is an awfully big hammer)?

I think we are agreeing still: mismatched LIDs =3D Invalid Data status
code and Terminate.

>
> My thinking was (and still is) - if you're going to call for
> "consistent" LIDs (length-wise), then you either have to exp= licitly
> state what that LID size is (and possibly be prepared to negotiate
> the LID size), or allocate sufficient "real-estate" to cover= all the
> possibilities.

I'll try a counter-argument: =C2=A0In core DLEP, a MAC address can be 6= or 8
octets - you don't know which until you get one, and I'm not sure i= f we
specify if you are allowed to mix and match.=C2=A0 I suggest that LIDs
should follow the same precedent.

= 

13.7.  MAC Address

   The MAC Address Data Item contains the address of the destination on
   the remote node.

   DLEP can support MAC addresses in either EUI-48 or EUI-64 format
   ("EUI" stands for "Extended Unique Identifier"), wit=
h the restriction
   that all MAC addresses for a given DLEP session MUST be in the same
   format and MUST be consistent with the MAC address format of the
   connected modem (e.g., if the modem is connected to the router with
   an EUI-48 MAC, all destination addresses via that modem MUST be
   expressed in EUI-48 format).

   Examples of a virtual destination would be (1) a multicast MAC
   address or (2) the broadcast MAC address (FF:FF:FF:FF:FF:FF).
=
The difference is that the type of MAC is enforced by = the connection type of the modem - so the router implementation *does* have= a-priori knowledge of the MAC length.=C2=A0

=C2= =A0=C2=A0
I'm not immediately dismissing the suggestion of a "My LID length = is X"
Data Item for use in Session Init, but it could be seen as 'clunky'= .

The only other way I can see is to lift the rest= riction on LID consistency, other than "they cannot clash". Then,= you have to define how "clashing" is determined (for interoperab= ility). For example, "LIDs of different length are to be compared assu= ming right-justify, fill character 0x00 to achieve equal length). Or someth= ing like that.=C2=A0

Regards,
Stan
=
=C2=A0

--94eb2c05b602025c24055138ca98-- From nobody Thu Jun 15 07:51:37 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: manet@ietf.org Delivered-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49DA8126D46; Thu, 15 Jun 2017 07:51:35 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: The IESG To: "IETF-Announce" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.54.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Cc: The IESG , sratliff@idirect.net, Stan Ratliff , manet-chairs@ietf.org, manet@ietf.org, aretana@cisco.com, draft-ietf-manet-olsrv2-multipath@ietf.org, rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <149753829529.13029.3660616995245443580.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2017 07:51:35 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [manet] Document Action: 'Multipath Extension for the Optimized Link State Routing Protocol version 2 (OLSRv2)' to Experimental RFC (draft-ietf-manet-olsrv2-multipath-15.txt) X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2017 14:51:35 -0000 The IESG has approved the following document: - 'Multipath Extension for the Optimized Link State Routing Protocol version 2 (OLSRv2)' (draft-ietf-manet-olsrv2-multipath-15.txt) as Experimental RFC This document is the product of the Mobile Ad-hoc Networks Working Group. The IESG contact persons are Alvaro Retana, Alia Atlas and Deborah Brungard. A URL of this Internet Draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-manet-olsrv2-multipath/ Technical Summary This document describes an experimental extension of the OLSRv2 protocol that allows for multiple disjoint paths through a MANET network for a source-destination pair. Multiple paths can be used to increase throughput in the MANET, provide load balancing, and improve forwarding reliability. Working Group Summary The document was thoroughly reviewed in the Working Group. There were multiple Last Calls on the document - during previous Last Calls, issues were discovered, discussed, and resolved. The working group reached consensus with the extension, and no issues remain. Document Quality There are three open-source multi-path OLSRv2 implementations available for the purpose of proof-of-concept, network simulation, and field test. Vendors have not indicated plans to implement on a commercial level, hence part of rationale for making this document Experimental. The document was extensively reviewed by Christopher Dearlove, who merits special mention. Personnel Stan Ratliff (sratliff@idirect.net) is the Document Shepherd. Alvaro Retana (aretana@cisco.com) is the Responsible Area Director. From nobody Thu Jun 15 09:21:23 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: manet@ietf.org Delivered-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E204A129524; Thu, 15 Jun 2017 09:21:17 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: The IESG To: "IETF-Announce" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.54.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk CC: manet-chairs@ietf.org, draft-ietf-manet-rfc5444-usage@ietf.org, manet@ietf.org, bebemaster@gmail.com, aretana@cisco.com, Justin Dean Reply-To: ietf@ietf.org Sender: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <149754367783.12977.11685836077078414081.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2017 09:21:17 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [manet] Last Call: (Rules for Designing Protocols Using the RFC 5444 Generalized Packet/ Message Format) to Proposed Standard X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2017 16:21:18 -0000 The IESG has received a request from the Mobile Ad-hoc Networks WG (manet) to consider the following document: - 'Rules for Designing Protocols Using the RFC 5444 Generalized Packet/ Message Format' as Proposed Standard The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits final comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2017-06-29. Exceptionally, comments may be sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting. Abstract RFC 5444 specifies a generalized MANET packet/message format and describes an intended use for multiplexed MANET routing protocol messages that is mandated to use on the port/protocol specified by RFC 5498. This document updates RFC 5444 by providing rules and recommendations for how the multiplexer operates and how protocols can use the packet/message format. In particular, the mandatory rules prohibit a number of uses that have been suggested in various proposals, and which would have led to interoperability problems, to the impediment of protocol extension development, and to an inability to use optional generic parsers. The file can be obtained via https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-manet-rfc5444-usage/ IESG discussion can be tracked via https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-manet-rfc5444-usage/ballot/ No IPR declarations have been submitted directly on this I-D. From nobody Mon Jun 19 07:21:11 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93D1B1314C9 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2017 07:21:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SjxJErMrP2xz for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2017 07:21:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tropicalstormsoftware.com (mail.tropicalstormsoftware.com [188.94.42.120]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9B719131483 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2017 07:21:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tss-server1.home.tropicalstormsoftware.com ([fe80::753b:fa82:5c0:af0d]) by tss-server1.home.tropicalstormsoftware.com ([fe80::753b:fa82:5c0:af0d%10]) with mapi; Mon, 19 Jun 2017 15:20:44 +0100 From: Rick Taylor To: "ratliffstan@gmail.com" CC: "kmorga07@harris.com" , "manet@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [manet] DLEP LID lengths Thread-Index: AQHS6Qc8XDbHi2PNfkeVCwyLbnKMmg== Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2017 14:20:42 +0000 Message-ID: <1497882042.2674.34.camel@tropicalstormsoftware.com> References: <63448cdd41fa4c94a44a390dd10848a1@MLBXCH18.cs.myharris.net> <1496242619.3129.19.camel@tropicalstormsoftware.com> <61e159c5594246d8afa42b5ee5cda557@MLBXCH18.cs.myharris.net> <1496664069.3788.31.camel@tropicalstormsoftware.com> <1496676769.3788.60.camel@tropicalstormsoftware.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <7952a94d-953f-432f-b9cf-ec85a2062da3> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [manet] DLEP LID lengths X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2017 14:21:10 -0000 QWxsLA0KDQpJJ3ZlIGJlZW4gbXVsbGluZyB0aGlzIG92ZXIuDQoNCkhvdyBhYm91dCB0aGUgTElE IGxlbmd0aCBNVVNUIGJlIHRoZSBzYW1lIGFzIHRoZSBNQUMsIHNvIGl0J3MgdXAgdG8gdGhlDQph ZHZlcnRpc2VyIG9mIHRoZSBMSUQgdG8gYml0IHBhY2s/DQoNClRoaXMgc2VlbXMgdG8gd29yayB3 aXRoIGV4aXN0aW5nIHVzZSBjYXNlcywgYW5kIGF2b2lkcyB0aGUgbmVlZCBmb3IgTElEDQpsZW5n dGggbmVnb3RpYXRpb24uIMKgVGhlIG9ubHkgZG93bi1zaWRlIEkgY2FuIHNlZSBpcyB0aGF0IDJe NDggTElEcyBpcw0KYSBjb21tb24gbWF4aW11bSwgYnV0IHRoYXQgc2VlbXMgcGxlbnR5IGN1cnJl bnRseS4NCg0KVGhvdWdodHM/DQoNClJpY2s= From nobody Mon Jun 19 07:34:08 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D5701314F2 for ; 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Mon, 19 Jun 2017 07:34:03 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.79.27.150 with HTTP; Mon, 19 Jun 2017 07:34:02 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1497882042.2674.34.camel@tropicalstormsoftware.com> References: <63448cdd41fa4c94a44a390dd10848a1@MLBXCH18.cs.myharris.net> <1496242619.3129.19.camel@tropicalstormsoftware.com> <61e159c5594246d8afa42b5ee5cda557@MLBXCH18.cs.myharris.net> <1496664069.3788.31.camel@tropicalstormsoftware.com> <1496676769.3788.60.camel@tropicalstormsoftware.com> <1497882042.2674.34.camel@tropicalstormsoftware.com> From: Stan Ratliff Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2017 10:34:02 -0400 Message-ID: To: Rick Taylor Cc: "kmorga07@harris.com" , "manet@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a113fb680cd7ae20552510605" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [manet] DLEP LID lengths X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2017 14:34:06 -0000 --001a113fb680cd7ae20552510605 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 10:20 AM, Rick Taylor < rick@tropicalstormsoftware.com> wrote: > All, > > I've been mulling this over. > > How about the LID length MUST be the same as the MAC, so it's up to the > advertiser of the LID to bit pack? > Does that mean that if a modem is using EUI-64 MACs, then the LIDs are 64 bits as well? I'm OK with that, I just think we need to state it. Also, I think there should be a sentence about LIDs not being duplicated (and, in fact, that a LID MUST NOT duplicate an existing MAC, or vice-versa). I'd think that a duplicate LID on Destination Up would be rejected, and the Destination would not be seen as Up (Destination-level error, NOT a peer session level error). > > This seems to work with existing use cases, and avoids the need for LID > length negotiation. The only down-side I can see is that 2^48 LIDs is > a common maximum, but that seems plenty currently. > Yeah, I'm thinking that 1 modem supporting 2^48 links will cause insanity well before DLEP has a problem... ;-) Regards, Stan > Thoughts? > > Rick --001a113fb680cd7ae20552510605 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 10:20 AM, Rick Taylor <rick@tropi= calstormsoftware.com> wrote:

This seems to work with existing use cases, and avoids the need for LID
length negotiation.=C2=A0 The only down-side I can see is that 2^48 LIDs is=
a common maximum, but that seems plenty currently.
Yeah, I'm thinking that 1 modem supporting 2^48 links will = cause insanity well before DLEP has a problem... ;-)
=C2=A0
=
Regards,
Stan


Thoughts?

Rick

--001a113fb680cd7ae20552510605-- From nobody Mon Jun 19 08:41:02 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFCA113151E for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2017 08:40:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id A2LrZ2QbpRJ7 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2017 08:40:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rocxsmtp1.harris.com (rocxsmtpout1.harris.com [192.158.6.51]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3333E1201FA for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2017 08:40:33 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c09e0632-09bff70000007328-97-5947f06f5dea Received: from ROCXCH12.cs.myharris.net ( [10.64.248.34]) by rocxsmtp1.harris.com (mail) with SMTP id 8E.04.29480.F60F7495; Mon, 19 Jun 2017 11:40:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ROCXCH12.cs.myharris.net (10.64.248.34) by ROCXCH12.cs.myharris.net (10.64.248.34) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1263.5; Mon, 19 Jun 2017 11:40:29 -0400 Received: from ROCXCH12.cs.myharris.net ([10.64.248.34]) by ROCXCH12.cs.myharris.net ([10.64.248.34]) with mapi id 15.00.1263.000; Mon, 19 Jun 2017 11:40:29 -0400 From: "Morgan, Keith" To: Stan Ratliff , Rick Taylor CC: "manet@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [manet] DLEP LID lengths Thread-Index: AQHS6QdDemPXfUs1xEu5fwmvedw6T6IsgzAA///NhbA= Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2017 15:40:28 +0000 Message-ID: <3beac7a34e354c389363008b13f3d4ef@ROCXCH12.cs.myharris.net> References: <63448cdd41fa4c94a44a390dd10848a1@MLBXCH18.cs.myharris.net> <1496242619.3129.19.camel@tropicalstormsoftware.com> 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-1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Np9LuLKDYAgf for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2017 08:53:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tropicalstormsoftware.com (mail.tropicalstormsoftware.com [188.94.42.120]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 672F1131548 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2017 08:53:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tss-server1.home.tropicalstormsoftware.com ([fe80::753b:fa82:5c0:af0d]) by tss-server1.home.tropicalstormsoftware.com ([fe80::753b:fa82:5c0:af0d%10]) with mapi; Mon, 19 Jun 2017 16:53:14 +0100 From: Rick Taylor To: "ratliffstan@gmail.com" CC: "kmorga07@harris.com" , "manet@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [manet] DLEP LID lengths Thread-Index: AQHS6Qc8XDbHi2PNfkeVCwyLbnKMmqIsL14AgAAWIQA= Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2017 15:53:14 +0000 Message-ID: <1497887594.2674.56.camel@tropicalstormsoftware.com> References: <63448cdd41fa4c94a44a390dd10848a1@MLBXCH18.cs.myharris.net> <1496242619.3129.19.camel@tropicalstormsoftware.com> <61e159c5594246d8afa42b5ee5cda557@MLBXCH18.cs.myharris.net> <1496664069.3788.31.camel@tropicalstormsoftware.com> <1496676769.3788.60.camel@tropicalstormsoftware.com> <1497882042.2674.34.camel@tropicalstormsoftware.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <3482f2d3-d706-4741-9fdd-15d56b2d5b8c> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [manet] DLEP LID lengths X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2017 15:53:51 -0000 Q29tbWVudHMgaW5saW5lLi4uDQoNCk9uIE1vbiwgMjAxNy0wNi0xOSBhdCAxMDozNCAtMDQwMCwg U3RhbiBSYXRsaWZmIHdyb3RlOg0KPiANCj4gDQo+IE9uIE1vbiwgSnVuIDE5LCAyMDE3IGF0IDEw OjIwIEFNLCBSaWNrIFRheWxvciA8cmlja0B0cm9waWNhbHN0b3Jtc29mdA0KPiB3YXJlLmNvbT4g d3JvdGU6DQo+ID4gQWxsLA0KPiA+IA0KPiA+IEkndmUgYmVlbiBtdWxsaW5nIHRoaXMgb3Zlci4N Cj4gPiANCj4gPiBIb3cgYWJvdXQgdGhlIExJRCBsZW5ndGggTVVTVCBiZSB0aGUgc2FtZSBhcyB0 aGUgTUFDLCBzbyBpdCdzIHVwIHRvDQo+ID4gdGhlDQo+ID4gYWR2ZXJ0aXNlciBvZiB0aGUgTElE IHRvIGJpdCBwYWNrPw0KPiBEb2VzIHRoYXQgbWVhbiB0aGF0IGlmIGEgbW9kZW0gaXMgdXNpbmcg RVVJLTY0IE1BQ3MsIHRoZW4gdGhlIExJRHMNCj4gYXJlIDY0IGJpdHMgYXMgd2VsbD8gSSdtIE9L IHdpdGggdGhhdCwgSSBqdXN0IHRoaW5rIHdlIG5lZWQgdG8gc3RhdGUNCj4gaXQuwqANCg0KWWVz LCB0aGF0J3MgdGhlIGlkZWEuIMKgQSBkcmFmdC0wMSB3aWxsIGJlIGZvcnRoY29taW5nLi4uDQoN Cg0KPiBBbHNvLCBJIHRoaW5rIHRoZXJlIHNob3VsZCBiZSBhIHNlbnRlbmNlIGFib3V0IExJRHMg bm90IGJlaW5nDQo+IGR1cGxpY2F0ZWQgKGFuZCwgaW4gZmFjdCwgdGhhdCBhIExJRCBNVVNUIE5P 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tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GVAglIB5J188 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2017 09:03:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tropicalstormsoftware.com (mail.tropicalstormsoftware.com [188.94.42.120]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C821712ECBE for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2017 09:03:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tss-server1.home.tropicalstormsoftware.com ([fe80::753b:fa82:5c0:af0d]) by tss-server1.home.tropicalstormsoftware.com ([fe80::753b:fa82:5c0:af0d%10]) with mapi; Mon, 19 Jun 2017 17:03:23 +0100 From: Rick Taylor To: "kmorga07@harris.com" , "ratliffstan@gmail.com" CC: "manet@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [manet] DLEP LID lengths Thread-Index: AQHS6Qc8XDbHi2PNfkeVCwyLbnKMmqIsL14AgAASkACAAAZmAA== Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2017 16:03:22 +0000 Message-ID: <1497888202.2674.60.camel@tropicalstormsoftware.com> References: <63448cdd41fa4c94a44a390dd10848a1@MLBXCH18.cs.myharris.net> <1496242619.3129.19.camel@tropicalstormsoftware.com> <61e159c5594246d8afa42b5ee5cda557@MLBXCH18.cs.myharris.net> <1496664069.3788.31.camel@tropicalstormsoftware.com> <1496676769.3788.60.camel@tropicalstormsoftware.com> <1497882042.2674.34.camel@tropicalstormsoftware.com> <3beac7a34e354c389363008b13f3d4ef@ROCXCH12.cs.myharris.net> In-Reply-To: <3beac7a34e354c389363008b13f3d4ef@ROCXCH12.cs.myharris.net> Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [manet] DLEP LID lengths X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2017 16:03:49 -0000 T24gTW9uLCAyMDE3LTA2LTE5IGF0IDE1OjQwICswMDAwLCBNb3JnYW4sIEtlaXRoIHdyb3RlOg0K PiBIaSwNCj4gwqANCj4gSSB3b3VsZCBpbWFnaW5lIHRoYXQgbW9kZW1zIHdpbGwgZWl0aGVyIHJl cG9ydCBNQUNzIG9yIExJRHMNCj4gY29uc2lzdGVudGx5IGRlcGVuZGluZyBvbiB3aGV0aGVyIHRo ZXkgYXJlIExheWVyIDIgb3IgMy4gRm9yIHVzIGl0DQo+IHdvdWxkIGp1c3QgYmUgTElEcywgYnV0 IGRlcml2ZWQgZnJvbSB0aGUgcm91dGVycyBNQUMuDQoNCkhpIEtlaXRoLA0KDQpJIGNhbiBzZWUg dGhhdCBiZWluZyB0cnVlIGluIHRoZSBjb21tb24gY2FzZSwgYnV0IHRoZXJlIGlzIHRoZSBsdXJr aW5nDQpkZXRhaWwgb2YgbXVsdGljYXN0IGxvZ2ljYWwgZGVzdGluYXRpb25zLCB3aGljaCByZW1h aW4gJ25vcm1hbCcgTUFDDQphZGRyZXNzZXMuIMKgU28gSSB3b3VsZCBleHBlY3QgeW91ciBpbXBs ZW1lbnRhdGlvbiB0byB1c2UgdGhlbSBpbiBzb21lDQp3YXkgaWYgeW91IGhhdmUgbXVsdGljYXN0 IHN1cHBvcnQuDQoNCkNoZWVycywNCg0KUmljaw0KDQo= From nobody Mon Jun 19 09:06:11 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0512A126C0F for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2017 09:06:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.698 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.698 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TWVY6a71SmSv for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2017 09:06:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-it0-x22c.google.com (mail-it0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c0b::22c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by 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b=mLv4+Fft3NnZPZfwLA/dS7JZEkLQT+dTbv/AIClnR9OQ8eWBauBpFDbObou92ctT2e eWf2jfNNCBvOO1a/cv8ZKthWhL5DAgBErbGXnlTYgwZBlM89XMx/VcMZ0rAccv8hrMY7 oDTWfUXi5eZd2gMAdhGz+MAuHmXulFgrXgkFQwoGURqU5h0S0DlZ9pZbNWQRNUV6BsSu FeERoSATjwu3XK/5z5KgWKB2hHETyvBvv7j1I9vBerYyJwaWVwf16achy42GZzKLPUmG 5ogczn6hbwi6gxeSXT1U7bCJxwkFBNdqGNDAU5lCfoktJu4svbsDCommUTV1WQ+IZ9lg hQ2Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AKS2vOyNvIe/Rg8VJkPYrsZz+1kbKX6RAVGmYzDyzOvSSbHIevuuakc1 jpwwO6iEU8G0AhLUnYIxwcN/1w67Xg== X-Received: by 10.36.123.86 with SMTP id q83mr23244570itc.65.1497888366400; Mon, 19 Jun 2017 09:06:06 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.79.27.150 with HTTP; Mon, 19 Jun 2017 09:06:01 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1497887594.2674.56.camel@tropicalstormsoftware.com> References: <63448cdd41fa4c94a44a390dd10848a1@MLBXCH18.cs.myharris.net> <1496242619.3129.19.camel@tropicalstormsoftware.com> <61e159c5594246d8afa42b5ee5cda557@MLBXCH18.cs.myharris.net> <1496664069.3788.31.camel@tropicalstormsoftware.com> <1496676769.3788.60.camel@tropicalstormsoftware.com> <1497882042.2674.34.camel@tropicalstormsoftware.com> <1497887594.2674.56.camel@tropicalstormsoftware.com> From: Stan Ratliff Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2017 12:06:01 -0400 Message-ID: To: Rick Taylor Cc: "kmorga07@harris.com" , "manet@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a11473e42fe1d6f0552524f32" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [manet] DLEP LID lengths X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2017 16:06:10 -0000 --001a11473e42fe1d6f0552524f32 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 11:53 AM, Rick Taylor < rick@tropicalstormsoftware.com> wrote: > Comments inline... > > On Mon, 2017-06-19 at 10:34 -0400, Stan Ratliff wrote: > > > > > > On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 10:20 AM, Rick Taylor > ware.com> wrote: > > > All, > > > > > > I've been mulling this over. > > > > > > How about the LID length MUST be the same as the MAC, so it's up to > > > the > > > advertiser of the LID to bit pack? > > Does that mean that if a modem is using EUI-64 MACs, then the LIDs > > are 64 bits as well? I'm OK with that, I just think we need to state > > it. > > Yes, that's the idea. A draft-01 will be forthcoming... > > > > Also, I think there should be a sentence about LIDs not being > > duplicated (and, in fact, that a LID MUST NOT duplicate an existing > > MAC, or vice-versa). I'd think that a duplicate LID on Destination Up > > would be rejected, and the Destination would not be seen as Up > > (Destination-level error, NOT a peer session level error). > > I'm not sure about this. I can see why it seems helpful: > an implementation can keep one data structure for all destinations, > physical/logical/LID. But, I can't see a simple way for a dual-mode > modem implementation to ensure no clashes. > > Part of the reasons behind LIDs was to produce a separate namespace. > Forcing and implementation to maintain 2 datastructures (of the same > type) for the two namespaces seems little extra effort (again, ignoring > ADA implementations). > Yes, implementations could maintain 2 information bases. But especially since the LID length will be the same as MAC length, it's an easy extension to put both in the same tree. As for how to keep them from clashing - both modems and routers have to maintain a database (or set of in-memory structures) to be able to report stats and keep track of what's going on. Since LIDs are "made up", while MACs are "architected", it would seem pretty easy to: 1. Make a LID up 2. Check to see if that's already in the tree, and if so, 3. Make another one up... I could even see a pretty straightforward implementation where LIDs are assigned based on a monotonically increasing counter. I've never see a MAC address of 00:00:00:00:00:01, 00:00:00:00:00:02, etc... however the implementation decides to pack the LID into a 48-bit (or 64-bit) quantity. Regards, Stan > > > > > > > > > This seems to work with existing use cases, and avoids the need for > > > LID > > > length negotiation. The only down-side I can see is that 2^48 LIDs > > > is > > > a common maximum, but that seems plenty currently. > > Yeah, I'm thinking that 1 modem supporting 2^48 links will cause > > insanity well before DLEP has a problem... ;-) > > As was pointed out to me: 640Kbytes has traditionally been plenty, 2^48 > looks like carelessness! :-) > > Cheers, > > Rick > --001a11473e42fe1d6f0552524f32 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 11:53 AM, Rick Taylor <rick@tropi= calstormsoftware.com> wrote:
ware.= com> wrote:
> > All,
> >
> > I've been mulling this over.
> >
> > How about the LID length MUST be the same as the MAC, so it's= up to
> > the
> > advertiser of the LID to bit pack?
> Does that mean that if a modem is using EUI-64 MACs, then the LIDs
> are 64 bits as well? I'm OK with that, I just think we need to sta= te
> it.=C2=A0

Yes, that's the idea.=C2=A0 A draft-01 will be forthcoming...


> Also, I think there should be a sentence about LIDs not being
> duplicated (and, in fact, that a LID MUST NOT duplicate an existing > MAC, or vice-versa). I'd think that a duplicate LID on Destination= Up
> would be rejected, and the Destination would not be seen as Up
> (Destination-level error, NOT a peer session level error).

I'm not sure about this.=C2=A0 I can see why it seems helpful:
an=C2=A0implementation can keep one data structure for all destinations, physical/logical/LID.=C2=A0 But, I can't see a simple way for a dual-mo= de
modem implementation to ensure no clashes.

Part of the reasons behind LIDs was to produce a separate namespace.
Forcing and implementation to maintain 2 datastructures (of the same
type) for the two namespaces seems little extra effort (again, ignoring
ADA implementations).

Yes, implementati= ons could maintain 2 information bases. But especially since the LID length= will be the same as MAC length, it's an easy extension to put both in = the same tree.
As for how to keep them from clashing - both modem= s and routers have to maintain a database (or set of in-memory structures) = to be able to report stats and keep track of what's going on. Since LID= s are "made up", while MACs are "architected", it would= seem pretty easy to:=C2=A0
1. Make a LID up
2. Check t= o see if that's already in the tree, and if so,
3. Make anoth= er one up...=C2=A0

I could even see a pretty strai= ghtforward implementation where LIDs are assigned based on a monotonically = increasing counter. I've never see a MAC address of 00:00:00:00:00:01, = 00:00:00:00:00:02, etc... however the implementation decides to pack the LI= D into a 48-bit (or 64-bit) quantity.

Regards,
Stan

=C2=A0

> =C2=A0
> >
> > This seems to work with existing use cases, and avoids the need f= or
> > LID
> > length negotiation.=C2=A0 The only down-side I can see is that 2^= 48 LIDs
> > is
> > a common maximum, but that seems plenty currently.
> Yeah, I'm thinking that 1 modem supporting 2^48 links will cause > insanity well before DLEP has a problem... ;-)

As was pointed out to me: 640Kbytes has traditionally been plenty, 2^48
looks like carelessness! :-)

Cheers,

Rick

--001a11473e42fe1d6f0552524f32-- From nobody Mon Jun 19 09:06:18 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F30E126C0F for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2017 09:06:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.698 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.698 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gHgTVIQgm39L for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2017 09:06:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qk0-x234.google.com (mail-qk0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c09::234]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 86874126BF7 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2017 09:06:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qk0-x234.google.com with SMTP id r62so37184176qkf.0 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 2017 09:06:08 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=5zeBiWvvCswP8Y19cRbNtUxSMgLed49ipEgCoezz2V0=; b=Yl89dYMoekFZtSRx2Mqnlug2KEmhuF7ycpvNOvzuktwfvr/KWTEpzvGh3C4emoc54p bgwvM+UYSw81kSo97UFcXTGUCXY8+5LKoFZDPSLJC8Lm/hUlVwU68QD9PmI1EUqj8l6c ZdhH1+NHQeHRjelNkzIiCAE3Mp7TJEM+4kdfGuKs8nOma6V9wCWnyi1Nge6nA67X3ypt zHUNjgv8SDIHYVR1lMQYxR41yYwKIHKCJWIMoF+gQNz6hmyoCcHRvpMBcM1TXDab7fuW 9DDTYjOBf0+J9qLgJdtfcdN4Ftchr17H2zf3jAcGHVJGpRw2qkIopcJHrJmUf+nsAstC E3pg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=5zeBiWvvCswP8Y19cRbNtUxSMgLed49ipEgCoezz2V0=; b=lAGbUZ2I14uA5ncnQJz/C545OToB935bpBy2I7/LzsNI+vV+hisElTZhxzwaUXFYn9 z5Ojd9mRvOozZgcpCMvl50AA3jsj1Yx2QZoyekVseUw8WzR8Nc8BuK5oXOP4FeNeME/d cvtc25C4EBzI+8jQkY09P+P+rh2rxNsK6uQ7cT9082HeZD0Cyl2aKyIwMevYuJYv3NUZ NsvlDkzQCzblgPVkLI5gVjo1QYMoBPV2DcH0yfe7asUsx86X/gdZitVB5J6kTq8PvKGY XldSQm2xOREWI3oMOp/pBDyVqAjHfTCkiofxlMs2RfvCqSJXGGhhAvLMWOSDX/2tuCr7 OQwg== X-Gm-Message-State: AKS2vOwT6jlpRBvbG8Ya2hIucgMlX6KJWJuZFstgEDNYBRq6yScXnnxZ bIOTeNPf9s3f5Cj0tAE+K80y1kEc1g== X-Received: by 10.55.153.199 with SMTP id b190mr29459858qke.117.1497888367653; Mon, 19 Jun 2017 09:06:07 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.79.27.150 with HTTP; Mon, 19 Jun 2017 09:06:01 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1497887594.2674.56.camel@tropicalstormsoftware.com> References: <63448cdd41fa4c94a44a390dd10848a1@MLBXCH18.cs.myharris.net> <1496242619.3129.19.camel@tropicalstormsoftware.com> <61e159c5594246d8afa42b5ee5cda557@MLBXCH18.cs.myharris.net> <1496664069.3788.31.camel@tropicalstormsoftware.com> <1496676769.3788.60.camel@tropicalstormsoftware.com> <1497882042.2674.34.camel@tropicalstormsoftware.com> <1497887594.2674.56.camel@tropicalstormsoftware.com> From: Stan Ratliff Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2017 12:06:01 -0400 Message-ID: To: Rick Taylor Cc: "kmorga07@harris.com" , "manet@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="94eb2c07e70611392405525250b9" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [manet] DLEP LID lengths X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2017 16:06:11 -0000 --94eb2c07e70611392405525250b9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 11:53 AM, Rick Taylor < rick@tropicalstormsoftware.com> wrote: > Comments inline... > > On Mon, 2017-06-19 at 10:34 -0400, Stan Ratliff wrote: > > > > > > On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 10:20 AM, Rick Taylor > ware.com> wrote: > > > All, > > > > > > I've been mulling this over. > > > > > > How about the LID length MUST be the same as the MAC, so it's up to > > > the > > > advertiser of the LID to bit pack? > > Does that mean that if a modem is using EUI-64 MACs, then the LIDs > > are 64 bits as well? I'm OK with that, I just think we need to state > > it. > > Yes, that's the idea. A draft-01 will be forthcoming... > > > > Also, I think there should be a sentence about LIDs not being > > duplicated (and, in fact, that a LID MUST NOT duplicate an existing > > MAC, or vice-versa). I'd think that a duplicate LID on Destination Up > > would be rejected, and the Destination would not be seen as Up > > (Destination-level error, NOT a peer session level error). > > I'm not sure about this. I can see why it seems helpful: > an implementation can keep one data structure for all destinations, > physical/logical/LID. But, I can't see a simple way for a dual-mode > modem implementation to ensure no clashes. > > Part of the reasons behind LIDs was to produce a separate namespace. > Forcing and implementation to maintain 2 datastructures (of the same > type) for the two namespaces seems little extra effort (again, ignoring > ADA implementations). > Yes, implementations could maintain 2 information bases. But especially since the LID length will be the same as MAC length, it's an easy extension to put both in the same tree. As for how to keep them from clashing - both modems and routers have to maintain a database (or set of in-memory structures) to be able to report stats and keep track of what's going on. Since LIDs are "made up", while MACs are "architected", it would seem pretty easy to: 1. Make a LID up 2. Check to see if that's already in the tree, and if so, 3. Make another one up... I could even see a pretty straightforward implementation where LIDs are assigned based on a monotonically increasing counter. I've never see a MAC address of 00:00:00:00:00:01, 00:00:00:00:00:02, etc... however the implementation decides to pack the LID into a 48-bit (or 64-bit) quantity. Regards, Stan > > > > > > > > > This seems to work with existing use cases, and avoids the need for > > > LID > > > length negotiation. The only down-side I can see is that 2^48 LIDs > > > is > > > a common maximum, but that seems plenty currently. > > Yeah, I'm thinking that 1 modem supporting 2^48 links will cause > > insanity well before DLEP has a problem... ;-) > > As was pointed out to me: 640Kbytes has traditionally been plenty, 2^48 > looks like carelessness! :-) > > Cheers, > > Rick > --94eb2c07e70611392405525250b9 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 11:53 AM, Rick Taylor <rick@tropi= calstormsoftware.com> wrote:
ware.= com> wrote:
> > All,
> >
> > I've been mulling this over.
> >
> > How about the LID length MUST be the same as the MAC, so it's= up to
> > the
> > advertiser of the LID to bit pack?
> Does that mean that if a modem is using EUI-64 MACs, then the LIDs
> are 64 bits as well? I'm OK with that, I just think we need to sta= te
> it.=C2=A0

Yes, that's the idea.=C2=A0 A draft-01 will be forthcoming...


> Also, I think there should be a sentence about LIDs not being
> duplicated (and, in fact, that a LID MUST NOT duplicate an existing > MAC, or vice-versa). I'd think that a duplicate LID on Destination= Up
> would be rejected, and the Destination would not be seen as Up
> (Destination-level error, NOT a peer session level error).

I'm not sure about this.=C2=A0 I can see why it seems helpful:
an=C2=A0implementation can keep one data structure for all destinations, physical/logical/LID.=C2=A0 But, I can't see a simple way for a dual-mo= de
modem implementation to ensure no clashes.

Part of the reasons behind LIDs was to produce a separate namespace.
Forcing and implementation to maintain 2 datastructures (of the same
type) for the two namespaces seems little extra effort (again, ignoring
ADA implementations).

Yes, implementati= ons could maintain 2 information bases. But especially since the LID length= will be the same as MAC length, it's an easy extension to put both in = the same tree.
As for how to keep them from clashing - both modem= s and routers have to maintain a database (or set of in-memory structures) = to be able to report stats and keep track of what's going on. Since LID= s are "made up", while MACs are "architected", it would= seem pretty easy to:=C2=A0
1. Make a LID up
2. Check t= o see if that's already in the tree, and if so,
3. Make anoth= er one up...=C2=A0

I could even see a pretty strai= ghtforward implementation where LIDs are assigned based on a monotonically = increasing counter. I've never see a MAC address of 00:00:00:00:00:01, = 00:00:00:00:00:02, etc... however the implementation decides to pack the LI= D into a 48-bit (or 64-bit) quantity.

Regards,
Stan

=C2=A0

> =C2=A0
> >
> > This seems to work with existing use cases, and avoids the need f= or
> > LID
> > length negotiation.=C2=A0 The only down-side I can see is that 2^= 48 LIDs
> > is
> > a common maximum, but that seems plenty currently.
> Yeah, I'm thinking that 1 modem supporting 2^48 links will cause > insanity well before DLEP has a problem... ;-)

As was pointed out to me: 640Kbytes has traditionally been plenty, 2^48
looks like carelessness! :-)

Cheers,

Rick

--94eb2c07e70611392405525250b9-- From nobody Tue Jun 20 13:02:58 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AEC1913160E; Tue, 20 Jun 2017 13:02:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.203 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.203 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id g91hzEqs0ddn; Tue, 20 Jun 2017 13:02:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rfc-editor.org (rfc-editor.org [4.31.198.49]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BCC6213153E; Tue, 20 Jun 2017 13:02:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by rfc-editor.org (Postfix, from userid 30) id 326C1B81356; Tue, 20 Jun 2017 13:02:35 -0700 (PDT) To: ietf-announce@ietf.org, rfc-dist@rfc-editor.org X-PHP-Originating-Script: 1005:ams_util_lib.php From: rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org Cc: rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org, drafts-update-ref@iana.org, manet@ietf.org Message-Id: <20170620200235.326C1B81356@rfc-editor.org> Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2017 13:02:35 -0700 (PDT) Archived-At: Subject: [manet] RFC 8175 on Dynamic Link Exchange Protocol (DLEP) X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2017 20:02:56 -0000 A new Request for Comments is now available in online RFC libraries. RFC 8175 Title: Dynamic Link Exchange Protocol (DLEP) Author: S. Ratliff, S. Jury, D. Satterwhite, R. Taylor, B. Berry Status: Standards Track Stream: IETF Date: June 2017 Mailbox: sratliff@idirect.net, sjury@cisco.com, dsatterw@broadcom.com, rick.taylor@airbus.com Pages: 82 Characters: 177898 Updates/Obsoletes/SeeAlso: None I-D Tag: draft-ietf-manet-dlep-29.txt URL: https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc8175 DOI: 10.17487/RFC8175 When routing devices rely on modems to effect communications over wireless links, they need timely and accurate knowledge of the characteristics of the link (speed, state, etc.) in order to make routing decisions. In mobile or other environments where these characteristics change frequently, manual configurations or the inference of state through routing or transport protocols does not allow the router to make the best decisions. This document introduces a new protocol called the Dynamic Link Exchange Protocol (DLEP), which provides a bidirectional, event-driven communication channel between the router and the modem to facilitate communication of changing link characteristics. This document is a product of the Mobile Ad-hoc Networks Working Group of the IETF. This is now a Proposed Standard. STANDARDS TRACK: This document specifies an Internet Standards Track protocol for the Internet community, and requests discussion and suggestions for improvements. Please refer to the current edition of the Official Internet Protocol Standards (https://www.rfc-editor.org/standards) for the standardization state and status of this protocol. Distribution of this memo is unlimited. This announcement is sent to the IETF-Announce and rfc-dist lists. To subscribe or unsubscribe, see https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce https://mailman.rfc-editor.org/mailman/listinfo/rfc-dist For searching the RFC series, see https://www.rfc-editor.org/search For downloading RFCs, see https://www.rfc-editor.org/retrieve/bulk Requests for special distribution should be addressed to either the author of the RFC in question, or to rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org. Unless specifically noted otherwise on the RFC itself, all RFCs are for unlimited distribution. The RFC Editor Team Association Management Solutions, LLC From nobody Tue Jun 20 23:31:08 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70571127B31 for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2017 23:31:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.22 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.22 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id A7GCli0ru0nt for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2017 23:31:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mirabel.astrium.eads.net (mirabel.astrium.eads.net [194.62.210.46]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31D7B1279EB for ; Tue, 20 Jun 2017 23:31:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rosout.astrium.eads.net ([10.221.0.46]) by mirabel.astrium.eads.net (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id v5L6UxVc012000 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 07:30:59 +0100 Received: from rosout.astrium.eads.net (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by IMSVA (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBC093C805D for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 07:30:59 +0100 (BST) Received: from localhost (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by IMSVA (Postfix) with SMTP id D018B3C8038 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 07:30:59 +0100 (BST) X-IMSS-HAND-OFF-DIRECTIVE: 127.0.0.1:10026 Received: from AUK52839.UKN.UKNROOT.ASTRIUM.CORP (unknown [10.221.1.32]) by rosout.astrium.eads.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E8D453C8038 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 07:30:58 +0100 (BST) Received: from AUK52982.UKN.UKNROOT.ASTRIUM.CORP ([fe80::543e:db1:48aa:1c6]) by AUK52839.UKN.UKNROOT.ASTRIUM.CORP ([fe80::cdf2:d214:a3a9:7510%15]) with mapi id 14.03.0301.000; Wed, 21 Jun 2017 07:30:58 +0100 From: "MATTY, Steven" To: "manet@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [manet] RFC 8175 on Dynamic Link Exchange Protocol (DLEP) Thread-Index: AQHS6gBAzoCkKhvsnEeovRAQwikFl6Iu25pQ Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2017 06:30:57 +0000 Message-ID: References: <25700_1497988983_59497F77_25700_2528_1_20170620200235.326C1B81356@rfc-editor.org> In-Reply-To: <25700_1497988983_59497F77_25700_2528_1_20170620200235.326C1B81356@rfc-editor.org> Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.221.1.73] X-TM-AS-Product-Ver: IMSVA-9.0.0.1549-8.1.0.1062-23144.002 X-TM-AS-Result: No--2.179-5.0-31-10 x-tm-as-user-approved-sender: No x-tm-as-user-blocked-sender: No Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-TM-AS-GCONF: 00 X-imss-scan-details: No--2.179-5.0-31-10 X-TMASE-Version: IMSVA-9.0.0.1549-8.1.1062-23144.002 X-TMASE-Result: 10--2.179300-10.000000 X-TMASE-MatchedRID: 7ySqCuYCpfiqMZyz/RcGLsWbIhUTWv9lt3aeg7g/usAutoY2UtFqGLLV WprbhV6ZxfqWqTgUDaZxS/3vF1WnuxCR6UNmPZVElVHM/F6YkvROjummt4nJ92tEzrC9eANpDnr wC+Ypv2owGJZfcwT/immevJVqJe6AQ6tklRJO9ihcO65jrNll89mzcdRxL+xwKrauXd3MZDWuik CL8VXXTBfaZSAh0texdkaNE38lwTh/E7BNivuQihiZEM/yKzUIh328ckpsmBvb0LncCWtVBG4lj HS6azP5m4z+eW1nbUEOMlGkyIfCpw== X-TMASE-SNAP-Result: 1.821001.0001-0-1-12:0,22:0,33:0,34:0,39:0-0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [manet] RFC 8175 on Dynamic Link Exchange Protocol (DLEP) X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2017 06:31:06 -0000 Many congrats to Stan, Rick et al! >-----Original Message----- >From: manet [mailto:manet-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of rfc-editor@rfc- >editor.org >Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2017 9:03 PM >To: ietf-announce@ietf.org; rfc-dist@rfc-editor.org >Cc: drafts-update-ref@iana.org; manet@ietf.org; rfc-editor@rfc-editor.or= g >Subject: [manet] RFC 8175 on Dynamic Link Exchange Protocol (DLEP) > >A new Request for Comments is now available in online RFC libraries. > > > RFC 8175 [snipped] This email (including any attachments) may contain confidential and/or pr= ivileged information or information otherwise protected from disclosure. = If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediate= ly, do not copy this message or any attachments and do not use it for any= purpose or disclose its content to any person, but delete this message a= nd any attachments from your system. Airbus Defence and Space Limited dis= claims any and all liability if this email transmission was virus corrupt= ed, altered or falsified. -o- Emails to Airbus Defence and Space Limited may be processed, recorded and= monitored outside the UK. -o- Airbus Defence and Space Limited, Registered in England and Wales No. 244= 9259 Registered Office: Gunnels Wood Road, Stevenage, Hertfordshire, SG1 2AS, = England From nobody Sat Jun 24 00:47:46 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 205B6129C30 for ; Sat, 24 Jun 2017 00:47:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id f0RqDTQJchJ3 for ; Sat, 24 Jun 2017 00:47:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qk0-x22e.google.com (mail-qk0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c09::22e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8DBEA12EA56 for ; Sat, 24 Jun 2017 00:47:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qk0-x22e.google.com with SMTP id p21so50388428qke.3 for ; Sat, 24 Jun 2017 00:47:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=+lgW6USXiTvnhOPRqsgivMnG0ARmeCfwFB4o8o8xUjE=; b=nojQzFsmuxroyMVxOCH8hPzUK0XQukKAT/JScfkaZJfmBu1sEvvbUc9whBhFGdbPma Pb6yFiSXpVZlx67NF3TH2qBzNJFJcS58T9Mv7PcMULszNdSPW+NTCS6ZaHguN+ZVGkBH QIsI7fDBoW+nd/PFE78pOemYfbenzfh/XxxlyWL5GkH7FwCUtitYJ81T8K8XIuhJSWqr kM0T6m194BdI1WuriCct6muu8xgNBdo5fwe52ScMjydXEfFezvBB+ndcdf+nN43Zs/bY hZCM2cq4Y2mIhSs6RlOeNNJhILiOArnJwNvBWSIPV+OVIyMLuB7Mj0uxBl0B3GkvtHPe KitQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=+lgW6USXiTvnhOPRqsgivMnG0ARmeCfwFB4o8o8xUjE=; b=MUw+Om04XVTA7V24qy4P3viFQL/S9mmAGBWsbUOtHBqnJLafwx+yXUkmxwJEBRO2lw PyTnxhskC22BhrvSuBpoH2CmqHST3HywaW7Cbc02eL0y44dfi+XV/NGUvVtwerzFI36e cZO/SrIjM/dw+jT2Tu6dyCWeGI8yQO5OGEm6y+0BPyBxpP91mOkE++8CCqjxVkWwFA3M tCWo88o+0CtVRXGgoUf5AOY6WzZ39GCsvI0wtbrNBhavcf12Q4R1/dAyPyLSY3+d34NX fx1B5SJ1/CxpW0OR55O5OrK+UqzXc36SNtk7QbDc+THd+Af61KpR4Zm/kqCaCrXiyej2 azxQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AKS2vOwExusS7Z44wlk4utsE1tbOVLqbMYr3MWw2gvvedL/DxlRUMznS b+B3eRYatBkqjFs1vg85saU3IZxCu0Go X-Received: by 10.55.16.90 with SMTP id a87mr13902629qkh.190.1498290449589; Sat, 24 Jun 2017 00:47:29 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.200.38.243 with HTTP; Sat, 24 Jun 2017 00:47:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.200.38.243 with HTTP; Sat, 24 Jun 2017 00:47:28 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <25700_1497988983_59497F77_25700_2528_1_20170620200235.326C1B81356@rfc-editor.org> From: Henning Rogge Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2017 09:47:28 +0200 Message-ID: To: MANET IETF Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a114760e404abf20552afee3d" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [manet] RFC 8175 on Dynamic Link Exchange Protocol (DLEP) X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2017 07:47:33 -0000 --001a114760e404abf20552afee3d Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I see it and it was a little shock for me... DLEP finally became a RFC! Congratulation to the authors and everyone involved for their insane endurance with this protocol. It is also a very nice timing because I am on a business trip to the CWiX in Poland where we have told and shown the advantage of the DLEP radio model (bridging, metadata available) to a lot of people. Instead of saying "it will become a standard" we were now able to say "it IS an open standard". Henning Rogge Am 21.06.2017 08:31 schrieb "MATTY, Steven" : Many congrats to Stan, Rick et al! >-----Original Message----- >From: manet [mailto:manet-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of rfc-editor@rfc- >editor.org >Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2017 9:03 PM >To: ietf-announce@ietf.org; rfc-dist@rfc-editor.org >Cc: drafts-update-ref@iana.org; manet@ietf.org; rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org >Subject: [manet] RFC 8175 on Dynamic Link Exchange Protocol (DLEP) > >A new Request for Comments is now available in online RFC libraries. > > > RFC 8175 [snipped] This email (including any attachments) may contain confidential and/or privileged information or information otherwise protected from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately, do not copy this message or any attachments and do not use it for any purpose or disclose its content to any person, but delete this message and any attachments from your system. Airbus Defence and Space Limited disclaims any and all liability if this email transmission was virus corrupted, altered or falsified. -o- Emails to Airbus Defence and Space Limited may be processed, recorded and monitored outside the UK. -o- Airbus Defence and Space Limited, Registered in England and Wales No. 2449259 Registered Office: Gunnels Wood Road, Stevenage, Hertfordshire, SG1 2AS, England _______________________________________________ manet mailing list manet@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/manet --001a114760e404abf20552afee3d Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I see it and it was a little shock for me... DLEP finally= became a RFC!

Congratulation = to the authors and everyone involved for their insane endurance with this p= rotocol.

It is also a ve= ry nice timing because I am on a business trip to the CWiX in Poland where = we have told and shown the advantage of the DLEP radio model (bridging, met= adata available) to a lot of people. Instead of saying "it will become= a standard" we were now able to say "it IS an open standard"= ;.

Henning Rogge

Am 21.06.2017= 08:31 schrieb "MATTY, Steven" <steven.matty@airbus.com>:
Many congrats to Stan, Rick et al!


>-----Original Message-----
>From: manet [mailto:manet-bou= nces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of rfc-editor@rfc-
>edit= or.org
>Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2017 9:03 PM
>To: ietf-announce@ietf.org; rfc-dist@rfc-editor.org >Cc: drafts-update-ref@ian= a.org; manet@ietf.org; rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org
>Subject: [manet] RFC 8175 on Dynamic Link Exchange Protocol (DLEP)
>
>A new Request for Comments is now available in online RFC libraries. >
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 RFC 8175

[snipped]
This email (including any attachments) may contain confidential and/or priv= ileged information or information otherwise protected from disclosure. If y= ou are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately, do= not copy this message or any attachments and do not use it for any purpose= or disclose its content to any person, but delete this message and any att= achments from your system. Airbus Defence and Space Limited disclaims any a= nd all liability if this email transmission was virus corrupted, altered or= falsified.
-o-
Emails to Airbus Defence and Space Limited may be processed, recorded and m= onitored outside the UK.
-o-
Airbus Defence and Space Limited, Registered in England and Wales No. 24492= 59
Registered Office: Gunnels Wood Road, Stevenage, Hertfordshire, SG1 2AS, En= gland

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--001a114760e404abf20552afee3d-- From nobody Tue Jun 27 07:05:19 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 739C3129B36 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2017 07:05:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uOWsqemLndJw for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2017 07:05:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.iit.cnr.it (mx3.iit.cnr.it [146.48.98.150]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0F52A129B11 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2017 07:05:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.iit.cnr.it (Postfix) with ESMTP id C522E600763 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2017 16:05:06 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at mx3.iit.cnr.it Received: from smtp.iit.cnr.it ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mx3.iit.cnr.it [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RQtwDD7SzEmH for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2017 16:05:01 +0200 (CEST) Received: from turig.iit.cnr.it (turig.iit.cnr.it [146.48.98.70]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.iit.cnr.it (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6A61D6006A6 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2017 16:05:01 +0200 (CEST) DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.1 smtp.iit.cnr.it 6A61D6006A6 Authentication-Results: smtp.iit.cnr.it; dmarc=none header.from=iit.cnr.it Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2017 16:05:01 +0200 From: Elisabetta Biondi To: manet@ietf.org Message-ID: <5952660d.YJ/IiwodljDYmA/N%e.biondi@iit.cnr.it> User-Agent: Heirloom mailx 12.4 7/29/08 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: [manet] New journal 'Online Social Networks and Media' X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2017 14:05:15 -0000 CALL FOR PAPERS Online Social Networks and Media journal http://www.journals.elsevier.com/online-social-networks-and-media/ *** The first issue is available online: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/journal/24686964 *** Issued quarterly, OSNEM is an Elsevier peer-reviewed international journal that publishes high-quality scientific articles (both theoretical and experimental) and survey papers covering all aspects of online social networks and media: from OSNEM protocols and applications to the use of data mined from OSNEM for modeling and understanding the human behavior in the cyber-physical world. It is a multidisciplinary journal for the wide community of computer and network scientists working on developing OSNEM platforms and services and using OSNEM as a big data source to mine, learn and mode the (online) human behavior. The journal also welcomes contributions applying a wide range of (computer- and network-science) techniques and tools to OSNEM for investigating how social relationships affect other scientific fields, e.g., social and political sciences, economic and financial sciences, medical sciences. Topics include, but are not limited to: - OSNEM platforms, protocols and applications; - Decentralized, mobile and location-based OSNEM; - Trust, reputation, privacy and security in OSNEM; - Dynamics of trends, information and opinion diffusion in OSNEM; - Recommendations and advertising in OSNEM; - Measurement, analysis and modeling of popular online social networks (Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Flickr, etc.); - Data mining, and machine learning in OSNEM systems; - Social media analysis and social analytics; - Information extraction and search in OSNEM; - Complex-network analysis of OSNEM; - Measurement, analysis and modeling of social behavior through OSNEM data; - Analysis of the use of OSNEM in the urban context; - Crowdsourcing and online social networks; - Multidisciplinary applications of OSNEM (economics, medicine, society, politics, homeland security, etc.). Marco Conti Founding EiC Elsevier Journal on Online Social Networks and Media From nobody Wed Jun 28 08:06:43 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: manet@ietf.org Delivered-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6504126CF6; Wed, 28 Jun 2017 08:06:27 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Sean Turner To: Cc: manet@ietf.org, ietf@ietf.org, draft-ietf-manet-rfc5444-usage.all@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.55.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <149866238770.7570.2060858148344768585@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2017 08:06:27 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [manet] Secdir last call review of draft-ietf-manet-rfc5444-usage-06 X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2017 15:06:28 -0000 Reviewer: Sean Turner Review result: Ready This draft is well written and in fact provides a wonderful overview of MANET. The draft updates RFC5444 based on some operational experience (and thanks for that); though it does not specify a protocol it is constraining RFC 5444 implementations hence the “updates” header. >From a security perspective this draft seems fine; there is one security-related update and it is explained in the security considerations. >From a non-MANET expert perspective, I have to admit that I found it hard to figure out exactly what is being “updated”. It’s a style thing that I’m not hard over on, but an informative section explaining what got changed would have really helped this reader. I will note that there are a couple of places where the draft is clear that is updates 5444, e.g., s4.4.1, s.4.6, so I have to wonder are those the only update? Or, is it that all the 2119 requirements for the processing rules update 5444 and you’d only look in 5444 for the packet formats? From nobody Wed Jun 28 08:13:37 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EAF7E1274D0; Wed, 28 Jun 2017 08:13:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.127 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.127 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RDNS_NONE=0.793] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cZ0AcJqHkmvg; Wed, 28 Jun 2017 08:13:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ukmta1.baesystems.com (unknown [20.133.0.55]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 56D7E126CF6; Wed, 28 Jun 2017 08:13:26 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.40,276,1496098800"; d="scan'208";a="9262605" Received: from unknown (HELO baemasmds016.greenlnk.net) ([10.15.207.101]) by ukmta1.baesystems.com with ESMTP; 28 Jun 2017 16:13:24 +0100 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.40,276,1496098800"; d="scan'208";a="7891417" Received: from glkxh0002v.greenlnk.net ([10.109.2.33]) by baemasmds016.greenlnk.net with ESMTP; 28 Jun 2017 16:13:24 +0100 Received: from GLKXM0003V.GREENLNK.net ([169.254.4.201]) by GLKXH0002V.GREENLNK.net ([10.109.2.33]) with mapi id 14.03.0248.002; Wed, 28 Jun 2017 16:13:24 +0100 From: "Dearlove, Christopher (UK)" To: Sean Turner , "secdir@ietf.org" CC: "manet@ietf.org" , "ietf@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-manet-rfc5444-usage.all@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Secdir last call review of draft-ietf-manet-rfc5444-usage-06 Thread-Index: AQHS8CAwegFevquESE68dg0fGkiXz6I6YOfw Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2017 15:13:23 +0000 Message-ID: References: <149866238770.7570.2060858148344768585@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <149866238770.7570.2060858148344768585@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.109.62.6] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [manet] Secdir last call review of draft-ietf-manet-rfc5444-usage-06 X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2017 15:13:29 -0000 U2Vhbg0KDQpUaGFua3MgZm9yIHRoYXQgcmV2aWV3LiBBbnN3ZXJpbmcgeW91ciBxdWVzdGlvbiBh Ym91dCBleGFjdGx5IHdoYXQgaXMgdXBkYXRlZCB3aWxsIHRha2UgYSBsaXR0bGUgd29yayAtIG5v dCB0b28gbXVjaCwgYnV0IGVub3VnaCAoaW5jbHVkaW5nIGNvbnN1bHRpbmcgd2l0aCBjby1hdXRo b3JzKSB0aGF0IEkgd29uJ3QgdHJ5IHRvIGFuc3dlciBub3csIGJ1dCB3ZSB3aWxsIHByb3ZpZGUg YW4gYW5zd2VyIC0gYW5kIGRlcGVuZGluZyBvbiB0aGF0IGFuc3dlciBkZXRlcm1pbmUgaWYgYW55 IGFwcHJvcHJpYXRlIGNvbW1lbnQocykgc2hvdWxkIGJlIGFkZGVkLg0KDQpDaHJpc3RvcGhlcg0K DQotLSANCkNocmlzdG9waGVyIERlYXJsb3ZlDQpTZW5pb3IgUHJpbmNpcGFsIEVuZ2luZWVyDQpC QUUgU3lzdGVtcyBBcHBsaWVkIEludGVsbGlnZW5jZSBMYWJvcmF0b3JpZXMNCl9fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fDQoNClQ6IMKgKzQ0IDMzMDAgNDY3NTAwIMKgfCDCoEU6IGNocmlzLmRlYXJsb3ZlQGJh ZXN5c3RlbXMuY29tDQoNCkJBRSBTeXN0ZW1zIEFwcGxpZWQgSW50ZWxsaWdlbmNlLCBDaGVsbXNm b3JkIFRlY2hub2xvZ3kgUGFyaywgR3JlYXQgQmFkZG93LCBDaGVsbXNmb3JkLCBFc3NleCBDTTIg OEhOLg0Kd3d3LmJhZXN5c3RlbXMuY29tL2FpDQpCQUUgU3lzdGVtcyBBcHBsaWVkIEludGVsbGln ZW5jZSBMaW1pdGVkDQpSZWdpc3RlcmVkIGluIEVuZ2xhbmQgJiBXYWxlcyBObzogMDEzMzc0NTEN ClJlZ2lzdGVyZWQgT2ZmaWNlOiBTdXJyZXkgUmVzZWFyY2ggUGFyaywgR3VpbGRmb3JkLCBTdXJy ZXksIEdVMiA3WVANCg0KDQotLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLQ0KRnJvbTogU2VhbiBU dXJuZXIgW21haWx0bzpzZWFuQHNuM3JkLmNvbV0gDQpTZW50OiAyOCBKdW5lIDIwMTcgMTY6MDYN ClRvOiBzZWNkaXJAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCkNjOiBtYW5ldEBpZXRmLm9yZzsgaWV0ZkBpZXRmLm9yZzsg ZHJhZnQtaWV0Zi1tYW5ldC1yZmM1NDQ0LXVzYWdlLmFsbEBpZXRmLm9yZw0KU3ViamVjdDogU2Vj ZGlyIGxhc3QgY2FsbCByZXZpZXcgb2YgZHJhZnQtaWV0Zi1tYW5ldC1yZmM1NDQ0LXVzYWdlLTA2 DQoNCi0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0hIFdBUk5JTkcgISAtLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tIFRoaXMgbWVzc2FnZSBvcmlnaW5hdGVzIGZyb20gb3V0c2lkZSBvdXIgb3JnYW5pc2F0aW9u LCBlaXRoZXIgZnJvbSBhbiBleHRlcm5hbCBwYXJ0bmVyIG9yIGZyb20gdGhlIGludGVybmV0Lg0K Q29uc2lkZXIgY2FyZWZ1bGx5IHdoZXRoZXIgeW91IHNob3VsZCBjbGljayBvbiBhbnkgbGlua3Ms IG9wZW4gYW55IGF0dGFjaG1lbnRzIG9yIHJlcGx5Lg0KRm9sbG93IHRoZSAnUmVwb3J0IFN1c3Bp Y2lvdXMgRW1haWxzJyBsaW5rIG9uIElUIG1hdHRlcnMgZm9yIGluc3RydWN0aW9ucyBvbiByZXBv cnRpbmcgc3VzcGljaW91cyBlbWFpbCBtZXNzYWdlcy4NCi0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tDQoNClJldmlld2VyOiBTZWFuIFR1cm5l cg0KUmV2aWV3IHJlc3VsdDogUmVhZHkNCg0KVGhpcyBkcmFmdCBpcyB3ZWxsIHdyaXR0ZW4gYW5k IGluIGZhY3QgcHJvdmlkZXMgYSB3b25kZXJmdWwgb3ZlcnZpZXcgb2YgTUFORVQuIA0KVGhlIGRy YWZ0IHVwZGF0ZXMgUkZDNTQ0NCBiYXNlZCBvbiBzb21lIG9wZXJhdGlvbmFsIGV4cGVyaWVuY2Ug KGFuZCB0aGFua3MgZm9yIHRoYXQpOyB0aG91Z2ggaXQgZG9lcyBub3Qgc3BlY2lmeSBhIHByb3Rv Y29sIGl0IGlzIGNvbnN0cmFpbmluZyBSRkMgNTQ0NCBpbXBsZW1lbnRhdGlvbnMgaGVuY2UgdGhl IOKAnHVwZGF0ZXPigJ0gaGVhZGVyLg0KDQo+RnJvbSBhIHNlY3VyaXR5IHBlcnNwZWN0aXZlIHRo aXMgZHJhZnQgc2VlbXMgZmluZTsgdGhlcmUgaXMgb25lDQpzZWN1cml0eS1yZWxhdGVkIHVwZGF0 ZSBhbmQgaXQgaXMgZXhwbGFpbmVkIGluIHRoZSBzZWN1cml0eSBjb25zaWRlcmF0aW9ucy4NCg0K PkZyb20gYSBub24tTUFORVQgZXhwZXJ0IHBlcnNwZWN0aXZlLCBJIGhhdmUgdG8gYWRtaXQgdGhh dCBJIGZvdW5kIGl0IA0KPmhhcmQgdG8NCmZpZ3VyZSBvdXQgZXhhY3RseSB3aGF0IGlzIGJlaW5n IOKAnHVwZGF0ZWTigJ0uICBJdOKAmXMgYSBzdHlsZSB0aGluZyB0aGF0IEnigJltIG5vdCBoYXJk IG92ZXIgb24sIGJ1dCBhbiBpbmZvcm1hdGl2ZSBzZWN0aW9uIGV4cGxhaW5pbmcgd2hhdCBnb3Qg Y2hhbmdlZCB3b3VsZCBoYXZlIHJlYWxseSBoZWxwZWQgdGhpcyByZWFkZXIuICBJIHdpbGwgbm90 ZSB0aGF0IHRoZXJlIGFyZSBhIGNvdXBsZSBvZiBwbGFjZXMgd2hlcmUgdGhlIGRyYWZ0IGlzIGNs ZWFyIHRoYXQgaXMgdXBkYXRlcyA1NDQ0LCBlLmcuLCBzNC40LjEsIHMuNC42LCAgc28gSSBoYXZl IHRvIHdvbmRlciBhcmUgdGhvc2UgdGhlIG9ubHkgdXBkYXRlPyAgT3IsIGlzIGl0IHRoYXQgYWxs IHRoZSAyMTE5IHJlcXVpcmVtZW50cyBmb3IgdGhlIHByb2Nlc3NpbmcgcnVsZXMgdXBkYXRlIDU0 NDQgYW5kIHlvdeKAmWQgb25seSBsb29rIGluIDU0NDQgZm9yIHRoZSBwYWNrZXQgZm9ybWF0cz8N Cg0KKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioq KioqKioqKioqKioqKioKVGhpcyBlbWFpbCBhbmQgYW55IGF0dGFjaG1lbnRzIGFyZSBjb25maWRl bnRpYWwgdG8gdGhlIGludGVuZGVkCnJlY2lwaWVudCBhbmQgbWF5IGFsc28gYmUgcHJpdmlsZWdl ZC4gSWYgeW91IGFyZSBub3QgdGhlIGludGVuZGVkCnJlY2lwaWVudCBwbGVhc2UgZGVsZXRlIGl0 IGZyb20geW91ciBzeXN0ZW0gYW5kIG5vdGlmeSB0aGUgc2VuZGVyLgpZb3Ugc2hvdWxkIG5vdCBj b3B5IGl0IG9yIHVzZSBpdCBmb3IgYW55IHB1cnBvc2Ugbm9yIGRpc2Nsb3NlIG9yCmRpc3RyaWJ1 dGUgaXRzIGNvbnRlbnRzIHRvIGFueSBvdGhlciBwZXJzb24uCioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioq KioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqCg== From nobody Thu Jun 29 23:46:54 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: manet@ietf.org Delivered-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24780128B93; Thu, 29 Jun 2017 23:46:36 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Peter Yee To: Cc: manet@ietf.org, ietf@ietf.org, draft-ietf-manet-rfc5444-usage.all@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.55.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <149880519611.4622.17798538360710855866@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2017 23:46:36 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [manet] Genart last call review of draft-ietf-manet-rfc5444-usage-06 X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2017 06:46:36 -0000 Reviewer: Peter Yee Review result: Ready with Issues I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. The General Area Review Team (Gen-ART) reviews all IETF documents being processed by the IESG for the IETF Chair. Please treat these comments just like any other last call comments. For more information, please see the FAQ at . Document: draft-ietf-manet-rfc5444-usage-06 Reviewer: Peter Yee Review Date: 2017-06-29 IETF LC End Date: 2017-06-29 IESG Telechat date: 2017-07-06 Summary: Ready with issues. Major issues: Minor issues: Page 12, 2nd bullet item: I disagree that this is an implementation detail. Unless there's additional signaling which indicates which implementation generated the packet, how is the receiving demultiplexer to know whether the sending multiplexer added a Message TLV or that was done by the protocol? Nits/editorial comments: General: Somebody needs to strangle the comma fairy. She was a bit too liberal with this document. ;-) I didn't take the time to clean up all of the excess commas, but many are noted below. Change "end to end" to "end-to-end" throughout the document. Specific: Page 3, Section 1, 2nd paragraph, 1st sentence: delete the comma after "in". Page 3, Section 1, 3rd paragraph: delete the comma after "[RFC5444]". Page 4, 1st full bullet item, 2nd sentence: delete the commas after "process" and "usage". Change "is" to "are". Page 5, 1st bullet item, 3rd sentence: delete "of" after "design". Page 5, last bullet item: append a comma after "count". Page 6, last paragraph, 2nd sentence: insert "may" before "pass". Change the comma after "rules" to a semicolon. Page 7, Section 1.3: change "makes" to "make" in both place. Change "impedes" to "impede". Page 7, Section 2, 2nd paragraph: append a comma after \"TLV\". Page 9, Section 4.3, 2nd paragraph, 2nd sentence: append a comma after "Originator Address". Page 10, Section 4.4.1, 1st bullet item, 1st sentence: elide the comma after "protocol". Page 11, 1st bullet item, 2nd sentence: change "of" to "or". Page 11, 3rd bullet item, 3rd sentence: remove the comma after "[RFC5444]". Page 12, 3rd bullet item: change the comma to a semicolon. Page 13, Section 4.5 title: append a comma after "Addresses". Page 13, Section 4.5, 3rd bullet item: change "an" to "a". Page 14, 4th bullet item: delete the comma after "Message". Page 14, last paragraph: add a comma after "absence" and delete one following "location". Page 15, 1st full paragraph: insert "it" before "could". Page 15, 2nd paragraph, 2nd sentence: change "routers" to "router's" or "routers'". Page 15, 4th paragraph, 2nd sentence: change the comma after TLV to a semicolon. Page 15, 5th paragraph: delete the commas after "Type" and "Value". Page 17, 1st partial paragraph, 1st full sentence: change "MPR_WILLNG" to "MPR_WILLING". Page 17, 1st full bullet item, 1st sentence: Strike the comma after "[RFC7182]". Page 17, Section 5, 1st paragraph: delete the comma. Page 17, Section 5, 1st paragraph after the bullet items: change the comma after "structural" to a period. Capitalize the follow "they". Insert "are" before "field lengths" if that makes sense. Page 17, last paragraph: append a comma after "Block". Page 18, 2nd bullet item: add a comma after "Block". Delete the comma after "TLV". Page 18, 2nd paragraph, 1st sentence: elide the comma after "[RFC5444]". Page 18, 2nd paragraph, 2nd sentence: delete the comma after "accepted". Page 18, 2nd paragraph, 3rd sentence: remove the comma after "mechanism". Page 18, 2nd paragraph, 5th sentence: change "4 bit" to "4-bit". Page 18, Section 6, 1st sentence: delete the commas following "different", "same", "specification", and "information". Page 18, Section 6, 2nd sentence: change the comma following "[RFC5444]" to a period. Capitalize the following "any". Page 19, 2nd to last paragraph, 1st sentence: change the comma after "only" to a semicolon. Page 19, 2nd to last paragraph, 2nd sentence: change the comma after "6.2)" to a semicolon. Page 19, last paragraph, 1st sentence: strike the comma after the 4th occurrence of "addresses". Page 19, last paragraph, 2nd sentence: append a comma after "example". Page 20, Section 6.2, 1st paragraph: delete the comma. Page 20, 1st bullet item: remove the comma after "straightforward". Page 20, 2nd bullet item: change the second comma to a period. Capitalize the following "see". Page 21, 2nd paragraph, 2nd sentence: elide the comma after "advice". Page 21, 2nd paragraph, last sentence: I can't parse this sentence. Consider rewriting for clarity. There seems to be a missing clause. Page 22, bullet item: delete the comma after "allowed". Page 24, Appendix A, 1st paragraph, 2nd sentence: delete all of the commas. Page 24, Appendix A, 1st paragraph after the bullet items, 2nd sentence: delete both commas. Page 25, Appendix B, 1st sentence: append a comma after "valuedness". Page 25, Appendix B, 2nd sentence: remove the comma following "creation". Page 25, Appendix B, 3rd sentence: change the comma after "independent" to a period. Capitalize the following "for". From nobody Fri Jun 30 02:06:56 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02BD7129B02; Fri, 30 Jun 2017 02:06:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.127 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.127 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RDNS_NONE=0.793] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iCHM6Sn0daQk; Fri, 30 Jun 2017 02:06:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ukmta1.baesystems.com (unknown [20.133.0.55]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C18E7128990; Fri, 30 Jun 2017 02:06:45 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.40,285,1496098800"; d="scan'208";a="9640413" Received: from unknown (HELO baemasmds016.greenlnk.net) ([10.15.207.101]) by ukmta1.baesystems.com with ESMTP; 30 Jun 2017 10:06:43 +0100 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.40,285,1496098800"; d="scan'208";a="8163060" Received: from glkxh0005v.greenlnk.net ([10.109.2.36]) by baemasmds016.greenlnk.net with ESMTP; 30 Jun 2017 10:06:43 +0100 Received: from GLKXM0003V.GREENLNK.net ([169.254.4.201]) by GLKXH0005V.GREENLNK.net ([10.109.2.36]) with mapi id 14.03.0248.002; Fri, 30 Jun 2017 10:06:42 +0100 From: "Dearlove, Christopher (UK)" To: Peter Yee , "gen-art@ietf.org" CC: "manet@ietf.org" , "ietf@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-manet-rfc5444-usage.all@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Genart last call review of draft-ietf-manet-rfc5444-usage-06 Thread-Index: AQHS8Wy/LoNZ0dAFTES9Ww970gslEqI9GRlQ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2017 09:06:42 +0000 Message-ID: References: <149880519611.4622.17798538360710855866@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <149880519611.4622.17798538360710855866@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.109.62.6] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [manet] Genart last call review of draft-ietf-manet-rfc5444-usage-06 X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2017 09:06:49 -0000 UGV0ZXINCg0KVGhhbmtzIHlvdSBmb3IgeW91ciBjb21tZW50cy4gSSBzaG91bGQgbm90ZSB0aGF0 IHRoZSBmb2xsb3dpbmcgY29tbWVudHMgYXJlIG1pbmUsIG5vdCB5ZXQgY29uc3VsdGVkIHdpdGgg bXkgY28tYXV0aG9ycy4NCg0KSSdtIGdvaW5nIHRvIG1vc3RseSBkaXNhZ3JlZSB3aXRoIHlvdXIg ZGlzYWdyZWVtZW50IGFib3V0IHRoZSBpbmRpY2F0ZWQgcG9pbnQgYmVpbmcgYW4gaW1wbGVtZW50 YXRpb24gaXNzdWUuIFdoYXQgbWF0dGVycyBpcyBjb25zaXN0ZW5jeSBhdCBhIHJvdXRlci4gQmV0 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2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC64C12EAF7; Fri, 30 Jun 2017 03:44:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.921 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.921 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qZ4HWwtAumnT; Fri, 30 Jun 2017 03:44:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ukmta2.baesystems.com (ukmta2.baesystems.com [20.133.0.56]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 79C9012969E; Fri, 30 Jun 2017 03:44:26 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.40,286,1496098800"; d="scan'208";a="8740161" Received: from unknown (HELO baemasmds016.greenlnk.net) ([10.15.207.101]) by ukmta2.baesystems.com with ESMTP; 30 Jun 2017 11:44:24 +0100 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.40,286,1496098800"; d="scan'208";a="8184978" Received: from glkxh0005v.greenlnk.net ([10.109.2.36]) by baemasmds016.greenlnk.net with ESMTP; 30 Jun 2017 11:44:24 +0100 Received: from GLKXM0003V.GREENLNK.net ([169.254.4.201]) by GLKXH0005V.GREENLNK.net ([10.109.2.36]) with mapi id 14.03.0248.002; Fri, 30 Jun 2017 11:44:24 +0100 From: "Dearlove, Christopher (UK)" To: Peter Yee , "gen-art@ietf.org" CC: "manet@ietf.org" , "ietf@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-manet-rfc5444-usage.all@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Genart last call review of draft-ietf-manet-rfc5444-usage-06 Thread-Index: AQHS8Wy/LoNZ0dAFTES9Ww970gslEqI9N7cQ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2017 10:44:24 +0000 Message-ID: References: <149880519611.4622.17798538360710855866@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: 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QiwgM3JkIHNlbnRlbmNlOiBjaGFuZ2UgdGhlIGNvbW1hIGFmdGVyICJpbmRlcGVuZGVudCIgdG8g YSBwZXJpb2QuICBDYXBpdGFsaXplIHRoZSBmb2xsb3dpbmcgImZvciIuDQoNCioqKioqKioqKioq KioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioq ClRoaXMgZW1haWwgYW5kIGFueSBhdHRhY2htZW50cyBhcmUgY29uZmlkZW50aWFsIHRvIHRoZSBp bnRlbmRlZApyZWNpcGllbnQgYW5kIG1heSBhbHNvIGJlIHByaXZpbGVnZWQuIElmIHlvdSBhcmUg bm90IHRoZSBpbnRlbmRlZApyZWNpcGllbnQgcGxlYXNlIGRlbGV0ZSBpdCBmcm9tIHlvdXIgc3lz dGVtIGFuZCBub3RpZnkgdGhlIHNlbmRlci4KWW91IHNob3VsZCBub3QgY29weSBpdCBvciB1c2Ug aXQgZm9yIGFueSBwdXJwb3NlIG5vciBkaXNjbG9zZSBvcgpkaXN0cmlidXRlIGl0cyBjb250ZW50 cyB0byBhbnkgb3RoZXIgcGVyc29uLgoqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioq KioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKgo= From nobody Fri Jun 30 09:03:52 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: manet@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E10512EC4A for ; Fri, 30 Jun 2017 09:03:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.92 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.92 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aXov643BCfM4 for ; Fri, 30 Jun 2017 09:03:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from p3plsmtpa07-06.prod.phx3.secureserver.net (p3plsmtpa07-06.prod.phx3.secureserver.net [173.201.192.235]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 42EE3126557 for ; Fri, 30 Jun 2017 09:03:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spectre ([173.8.184.78]) by :SMTPAUTH: with SMTP id QyLtdTtTpSSXYQyLtdpIrE; Fri, 30 Jun 2017 09:01:02 -0700 From: "Peter Yee" To: "'Dearlove, Christopher \(UK\)'" , Cc: , , References: <149880519611.4622.17798538360710855866@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2017 09:01:09 -0700 Message-ID: <02dc01d2f1ba$172111e0$456335a0$@akayla.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Content-Language: en-us Thread-Index: AQCr02KVCrHuUUtTB2jHVPMoKtTFcAJ14pcJpHgY+6A= X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfFFNdpLC2U4iBWKItez/+Xfaw6RSq2m8F/tPywpa5b+D1Wrrn027PR9J4qV8WqyLXUPjL69p3td8Mx0G/eLYgN3z1bOllrpnV6P64yRpAHU0jK4ER3iK DQLArN4QqsRItGA6F5dflmh+bPfuPUxbdrAZWvC8sQTvB07P46OkS8dHHP2kiFGPvn5nJ+YCD2TOCJpNnjUix9PSBN4aceX6D4DGPHd2lJFmphZzN2k270nH 91KEmtTruY0B5KNB3wXE4OUluMRpfETX4C7mrYFVYBx9Pz0QEZxOu070wD7E4HBD/TlovK+WGureHx/1GhX7jw== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [manet] Genart last call review of draft-ietf-manet-rfc5444-usage-06 X-BeenThere: manet@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobile Ad-hoc Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2017 16:03:50 -0000 Christopher, Thanks for clarifying what the implementation paragraph is supposed to = convey. It wasn't clear to me that this applied only within the router = or that it would be over-the-wire identical. As for the commas, there were a lot of them. I didn't even start = trying to clean them up until part way through the review. As you note, = some of them are tricky. That was part of the problem I had in reading = the draft - dense sentences that strung together lengthy clauses = requiring the reader to refer to earlier bits in the sentence in order = to make sure the meaning was understood. To be clear, I'm not saying = anything stated in the draft appeared to be incorrect. It just made for = more difficult reading and parsing. I appreciate the quick response and look forward to reading the revised = document. -Peter -----Original Message----- From: Dearlove, Christopher (UK) [mailto:chris.dearlove@baesystems.com]=20 Sent: Friday, June 30, 2017 2:07 AM To: Peter Yee; gen-art@ietf.org Cc: manet@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; = draft-ietf-manet-rfc5444-usage.all@ietf.org Subject: RE: Genart last call review of = draft-ietf-manet-rfc5444-usage-06 Peter Thanks you for your comments. I should note that the following comments = are mine, not yet consulted with my co-authors. I'm going to mostly disagree with your disagreement about the indicated = point being an implementation issue. What matters is consistency at a = router. Between routers doesn't matter. If router A adds the TLV in the = multiplexer or the protocol, the on-air message is identical. And it = doesn't matter if router B receiving a packet makes the opposite = decision, as long as router B's multiplexer and protocol are consistent. = I believe one reason for this comment is that different implementers = have made different decisions. Because there is consistency needed on a = router is why it says it is "in part". However, I would agree, re-reading it again, that as worded, it doesn't = come over as clearly as it should, so we will look at re-wording it. I don't agree with all of your comments about commas. Just to take the = first, simply removing the comma is not correct because "but did not = quite succeed in" is a parenthesis. However, fails to be correct because = attempted and succeed take different prepositions. But then "attempted = to providing" is of course incorrect. So that sentence needs work, but = not simply removal of a comma. I will take a look at each case (which I = haven't yet done), but ultimately of course the RFC Editor will act as = the arbiter of such matters. Christopher -- Christopher Dearlove Senior Principal Engineer BAE Systems Applied Intelligence Laboratories = _________________________________________________________________________= _ T: +44 3300 467500 | E: chris.dearlove@baesystems.com BAE Systems Applied Intelligence, Chelmsford Technology Park, Great = Baddow, Chelmsford, Essex CM2 8HN. www.baesystems.com/ai BAE Systems Applied Intelligence Limited Registered in England & Wales = No: 01337451 Registered Office: Surrey Research Park, Guildford, Surrey, = GU2 7YP -----Original Message----- From: Peter Yee [mailto:peter@akayla.com] Sent: 30 June 2017 07:47 To: gen-art@ietf.org Cc: manet@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; = draft-ietf-manet-rfc5444-usage.all@ietf.org Subject: Genart last call review of draft-ietf-manet-rfc5444-usage-06 ----------------------! WARNING ! ---------------------- This message = originates from outside our organisation, either from an external = partner or from the internet. Consider carefully whether you should click on any links, open any = attachments or reply. Follow the 'Report Suspicious Emails' link on IT matters for = instructions on reporting suspicious email messages. -------------------------------------------------------- Reviewer: Peter Yee Review result: Ready with Issues I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. The General Area = Review Team (Gen-ART) reviews all IETF documents being processed by the = IESG for the IETF Chair. Please treat these comments just like any = other last call comments. For more information, please see the FAQ at . Document: draft-ietf-manet-rfc5444-usage-06 Reviewer: Peter Yee Review Date: 2017-06-29 IETF LC End Date: 2017-06-29 IESG Telechat date: 2017-07-06 Summary: Ready with issues. Major issues: Minor issues: Page 12, 2nd bullet item: I disagree that this is an implementation = detail.=20 Unless there's additional signaling which indicates which implementation = generated the packet, how is the receiving demultiplexer to know whether = the sending multiplexer added a Message TLV or that was done by the = protocol? Nits/editorial comments: General: Somebody needs to strangle the comma fairy. She was a bit too liberal = with this document. ;-) I didn't take the time to clean up all of the = excess commas, but many are noted below. Change "end to end" to "end-to-end" throughout the document. Specific: Page 3, Section 1, 2nd paragraph, 1st sentence: delete the comma after = "in". Page 3, Section 1, 3rd paragraph: delete the comma after "[RFC5444]". Page 4, 1st full bullet item, 2nd sentence: delete the commas after = "process" and "usage". Change "is" to "are". Page 5, 1st bullet item, 3rd sentence: delete "of" after "design". Page 5, last bullet item: append a comma after "count". Page 6, last paragraph, 2nd sentence: insert "may" before "pass". = Change the comma after "rules" to a semicolon. Page 7, Section 1.3: change "makes" to "make" in both place. Change = "impedes" to "impede". Page 7, Section 2, 2nd paragraph: append a comma after \"TLV\". Page 9, Section 4.3, 2nd paragraph, 2nd sentence: append a comma after = "Originator Address". Page 10, Section 4.4.1, 1st bullet item, 1st sentence: elide the comma = after "protocol". Page 11, 1st bullet item, 2nd sentence: change "of" to "or". Page 11, 3rd bullet item, 3rd sentence: remove the comma after = "[RFC5444]". Page 12, 3rd bullet item: change the comma to a semicolon. Page 13, Section 4.5 title: append a comma after "Addresses". Page 13, Section 4.5, 3rd bullet item: change "an" to "a". Page 14, 4th bullet item: delete the comma after "Message". Page 14, last paragraph: add a comma after "absence" and delete one = following "location". Page 15, 1st full paragraph: insert "it" before "could". Page 15, 2nd paragraph, 2nd sentence: change "routers" to "router's" or = "routers'". Page 15, 4th paragraph, 2nd sentence: change the comma after TLV to a = semicolon. Page 15, 5th paragraph: delete the commas after "Type" and "Value". Page 17, 1st partial paragraph, 1st full sentence: change "MPR_WILLNG" = to "MPR_WILLING". Page 17, 1st full bullet item, 1st sentence: Strike the comma after = "[RFC7182]". Page 17, Section 5, 1st paragraph: delete the comma. Page 17, Section 5, 1st paragraph after the bullet items: change the = comma after "structural" to a period. Capitalize the follow "they". = Insert "are" before "field lengths" if that makes sense. Page 17, last paragraph: append a comma after "Block". Page 18, 2nd bullet item: add a comma after "Block". Delete the comma = after "TLV". Page 18, 2nd paragraph, 1st sentence: elide the comma after "[RFC5444]". Page 18, 2nd paragraph, 2nd sentence: delete the comma after "accepted". Page 18, 2nd paragraph, 3rd sentence: remove the comma after = "mechanism". Page 18, 2nd paragraph, 5th sentence: change "4 bit" to "4-bit". Page 18, Section 6, 1st sentence: delete the commas following = "different", "same", "specification", and "information". Page 18, Section 6, 2nd sentence: change the comma following "[RFC5444]" = to a period. Capitalize the following "any". Page 19, 2nd to last paragraph, 1st sentence: change the comma after = "only" to a semicolon. Page 19, 2nd to last paragraph, 2nd sentence: change the comma after = "6.2)" to a semicolon. Page 19, last paragraph, 1st sentence: strike the comma after the 4th = occurrence of "addresses". Page 19, last paragraph, 2nd sentence: append a comma after "example". Page 20, Section 6.2, 1st paragraph: delete the comma. Page 20, 1st bullet item: remove the comma after "straightforward". Page 20, 2nd bullet item: change the second comma to a period. = Capitalize the following "see". Page 21, 2nd paragraph, 2nd sentence: elide the comma after "advice". Page 21, 2nd paragraph, last sentence: I can't parse this sentence. = Consider rewriting for clarity. There seems to be a missing clause. Page 22, bullet item: delete the comma after "allowed". Page 24, Appendix A, 1st paragraph, 2nd sentence: delete all of the = commas. Page 24, Appendix A, 1st paragraph after the bullet items, 2nd sentence: = delete both commas. Page 25, Appendix B, 1st sentence: append a comma after "valuedness". Page 25, Appendix B, 2nd sentence: remove the comma following = "creation". Page 25, Appendix B, 3rd sentence: change the comma after "independent" = to a period. Capitalize the following "for". ******************************************************************** This email and any attachments are confidential to the intended = recipient and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended = recipient please delete it from your system and notify the sender. You should not copy it or use it for any purpose nor disclose or = distribute its contents to any other person. ********************************************************************