From nobody Wed Jun 12 14:28:08 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: media-types@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: media-types@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7E8F120181 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 14:28:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.889 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.889 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dqnkCqK_OV_g for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 14:28:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pechora6.dc.icann.org (pechora6.icann.org [192.0.46.72]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7F7A312014E for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 14:28:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 7.mo179.mail-out.ovh.net (7.mo179.mail-out.ovh.net [46.105.61.94]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pechora6.dc.icann.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 30D121E016A for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 21:28:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: from player791.ha.ovh.net (unknown [10.108.35.223]) by mo179.mail-out.ovh.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C953A135D00 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 23:27:40 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hoplahup.net (p5DC6F6F5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [93.198.246.245]) (Authenticated sender: paul@hoplahup.net) by player791.ha.ovh.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3E8EB6A950AF; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 21:27:39 +0000 (UTC) From: "Paul Libbrecht" To: "Matthias Kovatsch" Cc: media-types@iana.org Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 23:27:35 +0200 X-Mailer: MailMate (1.12.5r5635) Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_MailMate_A783D969-957C-412E-AF78-636D42088577_=" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Ovh-Tracer-Id: 7947727444946782213 X-VR-SPAMSTATE: OK X-VR-SPAMSCORE: 49 X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.6.2 (pechora6.dc.icann.org [192.0.46.72]); Wed, 12 Jun 2019 21:28:02 +0000 (UTC) X-VR-SPAMCAUSE: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduuddrudehjedgudeikecutefuodetggdotefrodftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucfqggfjpdevjffgvefmvefgnecuuegrihhlohhuthemucehtddtnecuogfuuhhsphgvtghtffhomhgrihhnucdlgeelmd Archived-At: Subject: Re: [media-types] Notice for a potential media type registration: application/td+json X-BeenThere: media-types@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "IANA mailing list for reviewing Media Type \(MIME Type, Content Type\) registration requests." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 21:28:07 -0000 --=_MailMate_A783D969-957C-412E-AF78-636D42088577_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear Matthias, It seems to me that this format is not unlikely going to be used in copy and paste scenarios. E.g. between editor applications which exchange configurations. While I am too new to this standard to assert this, I would be interested to hear if you agree on that. If you do, I would recommend that “clipboard flavour names” are included in your registration and replace the Macintosh file-type (which is not current anymore). This was done by a few media-type declarations already (e.g. SVG or MathML) and ensures that applications that might include such do so right away with the same name. Considering that type-specificity is likely to give the best user-experience, instead of aiming at text-type, I would like to suggest the following types for the Windows and macOS platforms: * macOS UTI: public.json-td extends public.json * Windows: json-td Note, however, that I have not found any software or specification that employs JSON-TD or even JSON-LD. If one is found for JSON-TD, this should probably be used. If one is found for JNSON-LD (which is far more generic), the extends of the UTI description should probably be adjusted. Thanks in advance. Paul On 3 May 2019, at 11:36, Matthias Kovatsch wrote: > Dear IANA > > The Web of Things WG at W3C is getting ready to transition to > Candidate Recommendation for the WoT Thing Description specification: > https://w3c.github..io/wot-thing-description > > Section 10 (https://w3c.github.io/wot-thing-description/#iana-section) > intents to register "application/td+json" as well as a CoAP > Content-Format ID (256-9999 range with IETF Review or IESG Approval). > > Could you please provide a Preliminary Community Review based on the > Registration Template, also attached below for convenience? > > Thank you and best wishes, > Matthias > > ---------------------- > > Type name: application > > Subtype name: td+json > > Required parameters: None > > Optional parameters: None > > Encoding considerations: See RFC 6839, section 3.1. > > Security considerations: > See RFC 8259. > Since WoT Thing Description is intended to be a pure data exchange > format for Thing metadata, the serialization SHOULD NOT be passed > through a code execution mechanism such as JavaScript's eval() > function to be parsed. An (invalid) document may contain code that, > when executed, could lead to unexpected side effects compromising the > security of a system. > WoT Thing Descriptions can be evaluated with a JSON-LD 1.1 > processor, which typically follows links to remote contexts (i.e., TD > context extensions, see § 6.3 Context Extension) automatically, > resulting in the transfer of files without the explicit request of the > Consumer for each one. If remote contexts are served by third parties, > it may allow them to gather usage patterns or similar information > leading to privacy concerns. While implementations on > resource-constrained devices are expected to perform raw JSON > processing (as opposed to JSON-LD processing), implementations in > general SHOULD statically cache vetted versions of their supported > context extensions and not to follow links to remote contexts. > Supported context extensions can be managed through a secure software > update mechanism instead. > Context Extensions (see § 6.3 Context Extension) that are loaded > from the Web over non-secure connections, such as HTTP, run the risk > of being altered by an attacker such that they may modify the TD > Information Model in a way that could compromise security. For this > reason, Consumer again SHOULD vet and cache remote contexts before > allowing the system to use it. > Given that JSON-LD processing usually includes the substitution of > long IRIs with short terms, WoT Thing Descriptions may expand > considerably when processed using a JSON-LD 1.1 processor and, in the > worst case, the resulting data might consume all of the recipient's > resources. Consumers SHOULD treat any TD metadata with due skepticism. > > Interoperability considerations: > See RFC 8259. > Rules for processing both conforming and non-conforming content > are defined in this specification. > > Published specification: > https://w3c.github.io/wot-thing-description > > Applications that use this media type: > All participating entities in the W3C Web of Things, that is, > Things, Consumers, and Intermediaries as defined in the Web of Things > (WoT) Architecture. > > Fragment identifier considerations: See RFC 6839, section 3.1 > > Additional information: > > Magic number(s): Not Applicable > File extension(s): .jsontd > Macintosh file type code(s): TEXT > > Person & email address to contact for further information: > Matthias Kovatsch > > Intended usage: COMMON > > Restrictions on usage: None > > Author(s): > The WoT Thing Description specification is a product of the Web of > Things Working Group. > > Change controller: W3C > > Provisional registration? (standards tree only): No > > _______________________________________________ > media-types mailing list > media-types@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/media-types --=_MailMate_A783D969-957C-412E-AF78-636D42088577_= Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dear Matthias,

It seems to me that this format is not unlikely going to = be used in copy and paste scenarios. E.g. between editor applications whi= ch exchange configurations.
While I am too new to this standard to assert this, I would be interested= to hear if you agree on that.

If you do, I would recommend that =E2=80=9Cclipboard flav= our names=E2=80=9D are included in your registration and replace the Maci= ntosh file-type (which is not current anymore).
This was done by a few media-type declarations already (e.g. SVG or MathM= L) and ensures that applications that might include such do so right away= with the same name.

Considering that type-specificity is likely to give the b= est user-experience, instead of aiming at text-type, I would like to sugg= est the following types for the Windows and macOS platforms:

  • macOS UTI: public.json-td extends public.json
  • Windows: json-td

Note, however, that I have not found any software or spec= ification that employs JSON-TD or even JSON-LD. If one is found for JSON-= TD, this should probably be used. If one is found for JNSON-LD (which is = far more generic), the extends of the UTI description should probably be = adjusted.

Thanks in advance.

Paul

On 3 May 2019, at 11:36, Matthias Kovatsch wrote:

Dear IANA

The Web of Things WG at W3C is getting ready to transition to Candidate R= ecommendation for the WoT Thing Description specification: https://w3c.github..io/wot-thi= ng-description

Section 10 (https://w3c.github.io/wot-thing-description/#iana-section) i= ntents to register "application/td+json" as well as a CoAP Cont= ent-Format ID (256-9999 range with IETF Review or IESG Approval).

Could you please provide a Preliminary Community Review based on the Regi= stration Template, also attached below for convenience?

Thank you and best wishes,
Matthias

----------------------

Type name: application

Subtype name: td+json

Required parameters: None

Optional parameters: None

Encoding considerations: See RFC 6839, section 3.1.

Security considerations:
See RFC 8259.
Since WoT Thing Description is intended to be a pure data exchange fo= rmat for Thing metadata, the serialization SHOULD NOT be passed through a= code execution mechanism such as JavaScript's eval() function to be = parsed. An (invalid) document may contain code that, when executed, could= lead to unexpected side effects compromising the security of a system. WoT Thing Descriptions can be evaluated with a JSON-LD 1.1 processor,= which typically follows links to remote contexts (i.e., TD context exten= sions, see =C2=A7 6.3 Context Extension) automatically, resulting in the = transfer of files without the explicit request of the Consumer for each o= ne. If remote contexts are served by third parties, it may allow them to = gather usage patterns or similar information leading to privacy concerns.= While implementations on resource-constrained devices are expected to pe= rform raw JSON processing (as opposed to JSON-LD processing), implementat= ions in general SHOULD statically cache vetted versions of their supporte= d context extensions and not to follow links to remote contexts. Supporte= d context extensions can be managed through a secure software update mech= anism instead.
Context Extensions (see =C2=A7 6.3 Context Extension) that are loaded= from the Web over non-secure connections, such as HTTP, run the risk of = being altered by an attacker such that they may modify the TD Information= Model in a way that could compromise security. For this reason, Consumer= again SHOULD vet and cache remote contexts before allowing the system to= use it.
Given that JSON-LD processing usually includes the substitution of lo= ng IRIs with short terms, WoT Thing Descriptions may expand considerably = when processed using a JSON-LD 1.1 processor and, in the worst case, the = resulting data might consume all of the recipient's resources. Consum= ers SHOULD treat any TD metadata with due skepticism.

Interoperability considerations:
See RFC 8259.
Rules for processing both conforming and non-conforming content are d= efined in this specification.

Published specification: https://w3c.github.io/wot-thing-description

Applications that use this media type:
All participating entities in the W3C Web of Things, that is, Things,= Consumers, and Intermediaries as defined in the Web of Things (WoT) Arch= itecture.

Fragment identifier considerations: See RFC 6839, section 3.1

Additional information:

Magic number(s): Not Applicable
File extension(s): .jsontd
Macintosh file type code(s): TEXT

Person & email address to contact for further information:
Matthias Kovatsch <w3c@kovatsch.net>

Intended usage: COMMON

Restrictions on usage: None

Author(s):
The WoT Thing Description specification is a product of the Web of Th= ings Working Group.

Change controller: W3C

Provisional registration? (standards tree only): No

_______________________________________________
media-types mailing list
media-types@ietf.org
https://www= =2Eietf.org/mailman/listinfo/media-types

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media-types@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A360112000E for ; Sun, 16 Jun 2019 23:37:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.889 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.889 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 95x8J-7NT-xe for ; Sun, 16 Jun 2019 23:37:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pechora6.dc.icann.org (pechora6.icann.org [IPv6:2620:0:2830:201::1:72]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 73CC8120122 for ; Sun, 16 Jun 2019 23:37:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 18.mo1.mail-out.ovh.net (18.mo1.mail-out.ovh.net [46.105.35.72]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pechora6.dc.icann.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BF59D1E014F for ; Mon, 17 Jun 2019 06:37:40 +0000 (UTC) Received: from player735.ha.ovh.net (unknown [10.109.159.132]) by mo1.mail-out.ovh.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B50517D7EC for ; Mon, 17 Jun 2019 08:37:18 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hoplahup.net (pD9526438.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [217.82.100.56]) (Authenticated sender: paul@hoplahup.net) by player735.ha.ovh.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 72B4E6EA2239; Mon, 17 Jun 2019 06:37:15 +0000 (UTC) From: "Paul Libbrecht" To: "Matthias Kovatsch" Cc: media-types@iana.org, plh@w3.org, team-wot@w3.org Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2019 08:37:14 +0200 X-Mailer: MailMate (1.12.5r5635) Message-ID: <487D1B91-4BA1-4B59-9DAD-831BC1355E51@hoplahup.net> In-Reply-To: <500fc6386f694fb18c55c6c2ebee7845@MBX100D.cloud4partner.com> References: <500fc6386f694fb18c55c6c2ebee7845@MBX100D.cloud4partner.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_MailMate_D2BC52E7-1DDF-4036-B738-C92F09DF00F5_=" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Embedded-HTML: [{"HTML":[2870, 1887], "plain":[1415, 1261], "uuid":"3017616C-683C-49E5-BB06-45F68331D808"}] X-Ovh-Tracer-Id: 3827496736987482117 X-VR-SPAMSTATE: OK X-VR-SPAMSCORE: 0 X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.6.2 (pechora6.dc.icann.org [192.0.46.72]); Mon, 17 Jun 2019 06:37:40 +0000 (UTC) X-VR-SPAMCAUSE: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduuddrudeiiedguddtiecutefuodetggdotefrodftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucfqggfjpdevjffgvefmvefgnecuuegrihhlohhuthemucehtddtnecu Archived-At: Subject: Re: [media-types] Notice for a potential media type registration: application/td+json X-BeenThere: media-types@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "IANA mailing list for reviewing Media Type \(MIME Type, Content Type\) registration requests." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2019 06:37:46 -0000 --=_MailMate_D2BC52E7-1DDF-4036-B738-C92F09DF00F5_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear Matthias, you’re basically asking for precision about my assertion: > type-specificity is likely to give the best user-experience Here is my interpretation and I am happy to hear about others’ point of view: Type-specificity allows services to be specific (so, a user knows what to read and write because the UI is able to express it); lack of specificity gives freedom to users but this freedom is bound to a broader interpretation range. As an example: text/html or text/json is only presented as text to people who understand it and is known to be sometimes quite painful to read. Similarly, using a generic editor for an OWL-RDF-encoded ontology works but requires the editors to be properly understood (I’ve never met newbie users to be confortable with Protégé for example). So while I am happy to support the possibility of editing given by the text and json-ld nature; I still think that a specific type is the only way to make tools able to offer relevant services. Note that the clipboard type is the most specific information you can use for a tool to be chosen as relevant or not; only an adjusted clipboard type can make it more specialised. Finally, because there is sub-typing (alas only on macOS), slightly more generic services might still be applicable (e.g. json-ld browser or json structured display). thanks. Paul On 15 Jun 2019, at 12:22, Matthias Kovatsch wrote: > Dear Paul > > Thank you very much for pointing us to the clipboard flavor names. I > have been trying to figure out more from the IANA side, but they > appear to be only managed by Microsoft and Apple, resp. Is there any > IANA recommendation around it – as it is not even part of the > registration form (https://www.iana.org/form/media-types). Can you or > anyone else help on this? > > I have also been thinking about the very specific “json-td” flavor > name. One motivation has been that TD can be treated like JSON, for > human “reasoning” and processing pipelines. At the moment, the > most specific tools that we have are online editors that provide some > syntax highlighting. Yet I think, no information would be lost when it > is copied around as JSON. Technically, TDs are a specialization of > JSON-LD, which in turn is a specialization of JSON, which again could > be seen as a specialization of Unicode text. > > Could someone explain, what for instance, the “public.json” flavor > provides on top of “public.utf8-plain-text” when copy-pasting JSON > documents? From this I could extrapolate what “json-td” could > offer atop “json”. Are there any folks having arguments to have > “json-ld” as a clipboard flavor name? > > Thanks a lot, > Matthias > _______________________________________________ > media-types mailing list > media-types@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/media-types --=_MailMate_D2BC52E7-1DDF-4036-B738-C92F09DF00F5_= Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dear Matthias,

you=E2=80=99re basically asking for precision about my as= sertion:

type-specificity is likely to give the best u= ser-experience

Here is my interpretation and I am happy to = hear about others=E2=80=99 point of view:

Type-specificity allows services to be specific (so, a us= er knows what to read and write because the UI is able to express it); la= ck of specificity gives freedom to users but this freedom is bound to a b= roader interpretation range.

As an example: text/html or text/json is only presented a= s text to people who understand it and is known to be sometimes quite pai= nful to read. Similarly, using a generic editor for an OWL-RDF-encoded on= tology works but requires the editors to be properly understood (I=E2=80=99= ve never met newbie users to be confortable with Prot=C3=A9g=C3=A9 for ex= ample).

So while I am happy to support the possibility of editing= given by the text and json-ld nature; I still think that a specific type= is the only way to make tools able to offer relevant services.

Note that the clipboard type is the most specific informa= tion you can use for a tool to be chosen as relevant or not; only an adju= sted clipboard type can make it more specialised.
Finally, because there is sub-typing (alas only on macOS), slightly more = generic services might still be applicable (e.g. json-ld browser or json = structured display).

thanks.

Paul



On 15 Jun 2019, at 12:22, Matthias Kovatsch wrote= :

Dear Paul

 

Thank you very much for pointing us to the clipboa= rd flavor names. I have been trying to figure out more from the IANA side= , but they appear to be only managed by Microsoft and Apple, resp. Is the= re any IANA recommendation around it =E2=80=93 as it is not even part of the registration form (https://www.iana.org/form/media-types). Can y= ou or anyone else help on this?

 

I have also been thinking about the very specific = =E2=80=9Cjson-td=E2=80=9D flavor name. One motivation has been that TD ca= n be treated like JSON, for human =E2=80=9Creasoning=E2=80=9D and process= ing pipelines. At the moment, the most specific tools that we have are on= line editors that provide some syntax highlighting. Yet I think, no informati= on would be lost when it is copied around as JSON. Technically, TDs are a= specialization of JSON-LD, which in turn is a specialization of JSON, wh= ich again could be seen as a specialization of Unicode text.

 

Could someone explain, what for instance, the =E2=80= =9Cpublic.json=E2=80=9D flavor provides on top of =E2=80=9Cpublic.utf8-pl= ain-text=E2=80=9D when copy-pasting JSON documents? From this I could ext= rapolate what =E2=80=9Cjson-td=E2=80=9D could offer atop =E2=80=9Cjson=E2= =80=9D. Are there any folks having arguments to have =E2=80=9Cjson-ld=E2=80=9D as a clipboard flavor name?<= o:p>

 

Thanks a lot,

Matthias

 

 

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media-types@ietf.org
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