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From: "Schwarz, Albrecht (Albrecht)" <albrecht.schwarz@alcatel-lucent.com>
To: "3GPP_TSG_CT_WG3@LIST.ETSI.ORG" <3GPP_TSG_CT_WG3@LIST.ETSI.ORG>
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2012 16:16:56 +0200
Thread-Topic: H.248-controlled T.38 configurations: SDP- vs Property-based H.248 signalling
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Cc: "megaco@ietf.org" <megaco@ietf.org>
Subject: [Megaco] H.248-controlled T.38 configurations: SDP- vs Property-based H.248 signalling
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[Cc'd megaco list due to H.248.2]

The T.38 parameters as defined by ITU-T T.38 are related to a T.38 endpoint=
 implementation, such as the T.38 user plane interworking function as e.g. =
located in an H.248 IP-to-TDM media gateway (e.g. 3GPP IM-MGW).

There are fundamentally two signaling options for such T.38 configurations:
a)      SDP-based: using T.38 Annex D defined SDP elements embedded in H.24=
8 descriptors
b)      Property-based: using H.248.2, IP Fax package defined properties, s=
uch as specified by clauses 10.1.3 to 10.1.7

Both H.248 signalling options are basically equivalent, - independent of SD=
P- or Property-based signaling elements. The signaling elements relate to t=
he T.38 endpoint, but NOT to any remote G3FE.
[Note: the H.248 IP fax package version 1 (from 2005/2007) does not yet con=
tain the latest T.38V4 (2010) parameter. But this aspect is irrelevant in t=
his discussion due to the proposal in 3GPP for the SDP-based method.]

Thus,
all "T.38 SDP attributes" (in C3-121327) are related to gateway capabilitie=
s (such as supported T.38 configurations by an IM-MGW implementation) (NOTE=
: attached is T.38 Table B.1 for H.323 gateways, which again underlines the=
 relation to gateway capabilities).
The MGC / MGCF may be either
a)      aware of the supported T.38 configuration(s) by his associated MGs =
or
b)      unaware.
Awareness may be achieved via auditing or configuration management.
Unawareness is basically possible, but may lead to inefficient or even inef=
fective H.248 scenarios for T.38.
Dependent on the amount of "supported T.38 configuration(s)" knowledge at M=
GC level would be the content of the SIP-level SDP O/A procedures.

Conclusions for C3-121327 (http://www.3gpp.org/ftp/tsg_ct/WG3_interworking_=
ex-CN3/TSGC3_70_Chicago/Docs/C3-121327.zip):
NOTEs 1 and 2 in Table X.3.1 are incorrect in my opinion.
The text related to "remote CS FAX equipment" (term should be anyway replac=
ed by term G3FE) should be just deleted. And there would be correspondent c=
hanges at other tables.

-Albrecht





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<font face=3D"Courier New, monospace" size=3D"2">
<div><font color=3D"#002060">[Cc&#8217;d megaco list due to H.248.2]</font>=
</div>
<div><font color=3D"#002060">&nbsp;</font></div>
<div><font color=3D"#002060">The <b>T.38 parameters</b> as defined by ITU-T=
 T.38 are related to a <b>T.38 endpoint implementation</b>, such as the <b>=
T.38 user plane interworking function</b> as e.g. located in an H.248 IP-to=
-TDM media gateway (e.g. 3GPP IM-MGW).</font></div>
<div><font color=3D"#002060">&nbsp;</font></div>
<div><font color=3D"#002060">There are fundamentally two signaling options =
for such T.38 configurations:</font></div>
<ol type=3D"a" style=3D"margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 3=
6pt; ">
<font color=3D"#002060">
<li><b>SDP-based</b>: using <b>T.38 Annex D</b> defined SDP elements embedd=
ed in H.248 descriptors</li><li><b>Property-based</b>: using <b>H.248.2, IP=
 Fax package</b> defined properties, such as specified by clauses 10.1.3 to=
 10.1.7</li></font>
</ol>
<div><font face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" size=3D"2" color=3D"#002060">&nbsp;=
</font></div>
<div><font color=3D"#002060">Both H.248 signalling options are basically eq=
uivalent, - independent of SDP- or Property-based signaling elements. The s=
ignaling elements relate to the T.38 endpoint, but NOT to any remote G3FE.<=
/font></div>
<div><font color=3D"#002060">[Note: the H.248 IP fax package version 1 (fro=
m 2005/2007) does not yet contain the latest T.38V4 (2010) parameter. But t=
his aspect is irrelevant in this discussion due to the proposal in 3GPP for=
 the SDP-based method.]</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" size=3D"2" color=3D"#002060">&nbsp;=
</font></div>
<div><font color=3D"#002060">Thus,</font></div>
<div><font color=3D"#002060">all &#8220;T.38 SDP attributes&#8221; (in C3-1=
21327) are related to gateway capabilities (such as supported T.38 configur=
ations by an IM-MGW implementation) (NOTE: attached is T.38 Table B.1 for H=
.323 gateways, which again underlines the relation
to gateway capabilities).</font></div>
<div><font color=3D"#002060">The MGC / MGCF may be either</font></div>
<ol type=3D"a" style=3D"margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 3=
6pt; ">
<font color=3D"#002060">
<li>aware of the supported T.38 configuration(s) by his associated MGs or</=
li><li>unaware.</li></font>
</ol>
<div><font color=3D"#002060">Awareness may be achieved via auditing or conf=
iguration management.</font></div>
<div><font color=3D"#002060">Unawareness is basically possible, but may lea=
d to inefficient or even ineffective H.248 scenarios for T.38.</font></div>
<div><font color=3D"#002060">Dependent on the amount of &#8220;supported T.=
38 configuration(s)&#8221; knowledge at MGC level would be the content of t=
he SIP-level SDP O/A procedures.</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" size=3D"2" color=3D"#002060">&nbsp;=
</font></div>
<div><font color=3D"#002060">Conclusions for <b>C3-121327</b> (<a href=3D"h=
ttp://www.3gpp.org/ftp/tsg_ct/WG3_interworking_ex-CN3/TSGC3_70_Chicago/Docs=
/C3-121327.zip"><u>http://www.3gpp.org/ftp/tsg_ct/WG3_interworking_ex-CN3/T=
SGC3_70_Chicago/Docs/C3-121327.zip</u></a>):</font></div>
<div><font color=3D"#002060">NOTEs 1 and 2 in Table X.3.1 are incorrect in =
my opinion.</font></div>
<div><font color=3D"#002060">The <b>text</b> related to &#8220;remote CS FA=
X equipment&#8221; (term should be anyway replaced by term G3FE) should be =
just <b>deleted</b>. And there would be correspondent changes at other tabl=
es.</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" size=3D"2" color=3D"#002060">&nbsp;=
</font></div>
<div><font color=3D"#002060">-Albrecht</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" size=3D"2" color=3D"#002060">&nbsp;=
</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" size=3D"2" color=3D"#C00000">&nbsp;=
</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" size=3D"2" color=3D"#C00000"><img s=
rc=3D"cid:d75168a1-1065-4004-bf13-2b5c1f4f89ee"><font face=3D"Courier New, =
monospace" size=3D"2"> </font></font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" size=3D"2">&nbsp;</font></div>
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From albrecht.schwarz@alcatel-lucent.com  Thu Aug  2 01:05:33 2012
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From: "Schwarz, Albrecht (Albrecht)" <albrecht.schwarz@alcatel-lucent.com>
To: "Belling, Thomas (NSN - DE/Munich)" <thomas.belling@nsn.com>, "3GPP_TSG_CT_WG3@LIST.ETSI.ORG" <3GPP_TSG_CT_WG3@LIST.ETSI.ORG>
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2012 10:05:04 +0200
Thread-Topic: H.248-controlled T.38 configurations: SDP- vs Property-based H.248 signalling
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Subject: Re: [Megaco] H.248-controlled T.38 configurations: SDP- vs Property-based H.248 signalling
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Hello Thomas,

I followed the SIP Forum FoIP thread, but I fail to see that confirmation t=
owards remote G3FE.
Actually it's rather the opposite, see Kevin's reply to you:


> (I did not find any definition of MMR format apart from "Modified

> Modified Read" in T.38. However on Annex VI of T.30, MMR is defined as

> the T.6 encoding. This also matches explanations in Wikipedia)

>

> *T38FaxTranscodingJBIG*: Indicates the ability to convert to/from JBIG

> to reduce bandwidth. This

>

> is a boolean parameter (inclusion =3D true, exclusion =3D false).



It is possible for a T.30<->T.38 gateway to provide these behaviors if desi=
red, and the resulting T.38 bitstream would differ in some noticeable ways =
from the T.30 bitstream. However, based on discussions with various knowled=
geable parties during our previous work in this group, it appears that it i=
s highly unusual for a T.38 implementation (gateway or terminal) to actuall=
y perform any of these three functions.



=F0  it's a gateway capability!

=F0  all your three referred T.38 parameters are subject of the IM-MGW impl=
ementation!
and ALU supports the recommended default values by Table H.2/T.38 (which sh=
ould be inline with your proposal).

Hence, Kevin explicitly confirms this also as gateway capability!

Regards,
Albrecht




From: Belling, Thomas (NSN - DE/Munich) [mailto:thomas.belling@nsn.com]
Sent: Mittwoch, 1. August 2012 16:46
To: Schwarz, Albrecht (Albrecht); 3GPP_TSG_CT_WG3@LIST.ETSI.ORG
Subject: RE: H.248-controlled T.38 configurations: SDP- vs Property-based H=
.248 signalling

Dear Albrecht,

Thanks for your comments.

with respect to T38FaxFillBitRemoval, T38FaxTranscodingMMR and T38FaxTransc=
odingJBIG SDP attributes, to which Notes 1 and 2 relate,  I had some discus=
sions at the SIP forum FoIP mailing list as you suggested.

And it was confirmed that unless you do some "transcoding" of the payload w=
ithin T.38 at the MGW, those properties relate to the remote CS FAX endpoin=
t. However, people thought that not signaling those properties in H.248v4 m=
ight be OK, because the default values which then apply are likely to be su=
pported by any receiving CS endpoint. The only open issue where I did not y=
et receive any reply is whether any harm is done if the CS endpoint behaves=
 differently when sending.

Thomas



From: 3GPP_TSG_CT_WG3 - Core Network and Terminals WG 3 [mailto:3GPP_TSG_CT=
_WG3@LIST.ETSI.ORG] On Behalf Of ext Schwarz, Albrecht (Albrecht)
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2012 4:17 PM
To: 3GPP_TSG_CT_WG3@LIST.ETSI.ORG
Subject: H.248-controlled T.38 configurations: SDP- vs Property-based H.248=
 signalling

[Cc'd megaco list due to H.248.2]

The T.38 parameters as defined by ITU-T T.38 are related to a T.38 endpoint=
 implementation, such as the T.38 user plane interworking function as e.g. =
located in an H.248 IP-to-TDM media gateway (e.g. 3GPP IM-MGW).

There are fundamentally two signaling options for such T.38 configurations:

 1.  SDP-based: using T.38 Annex D defined SDP elements embedded in H.248 d=
escriptors
 2.  Property-based: using H.248.2, IP Fax package defined properties, such=
 as specified by clauses 10.1.3 to 10.1.7

Both H.248 signalling options are basically equivalent, - independent of SD=
P- or Property-based signaling elements. The signaling elements relate to t=
he T.38 endpoint, but NOT to any remote G3FE.
[Note: the H.248 IP fax package version 1 (from 2005/2007) does not yet con=
tain the latest T.38V4 (2010) parameter. But this aspect is irrelevant in t=
his discussion due to the proposal in 3GPP for the SDP-based method.]

Thus,
all "T.38 SDP attributes" (in C3-121327) are related to gateway capabilitie=
s (such as supported T.38 configurations by an IM-MGW implementation) (NOTE=
: attached is T.38 Table B.1 for H.323 gateways, which again underlines the=
 relation to gateway capabilities).
The MGC / MGCF may be either

 1.  aware of the supported T.38 configuration(s) by his associated MGs or
 2.  unaware.
Awareness may be achieved via auditing or configuration management.
Unawareness is basically possible, but may lead to inefficient or even inef=
fective H.248 scenarios for T.38.
Dependent on the amount of "supported T.38 configuration(s)" knowledge at M=
GC level would be the content of the SIP-level SDP O/A procedures.

Conclusions for C3-121327 (http://www.3gpp.org/ftp/tsg_ct/WG3_interworking_=
ex-CN3/TSGC3_70_Chicago/Docs/C3-121327.zip):
NOTEs 1 and 2 in Table X.3.1 are incorrect in my opinion.
The text related to "remote CS FAX equipment" (term should be anyway replac=
ed by term G3FE) should be just deleted. And there would be correspondent c=
hanges at other tables.

-Albrecht





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	{mso-level-number-format:alpha-lower;
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--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit">
<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DDE link=3Dblue vlink=
=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US=
 style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#993366'>Hello T=
homas,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#993366'><o:p>&nbsp;</=
o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:1=
0.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#993366'>I followed the SIP Forum FoI=
P thread, but I fail to see that confirmation towards remote G3FE.<o:p></o:=
p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.=
0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#993366'>Actually it&#8217;s rather the=
 opposite, see Kevin&#8217;s reply to you:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D=
MsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier=
 New";color:#993366'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><s=
pan lang=3DEN-US>&gt; (I did not find any definition of MMR format apart fr=
om &#8220;Modified <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=
=3DEN-US>&gt; Modified Read&#8221; in T.38. However on Annex VI of T.30, MM=
R is defined as <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3D=
EN-US>&gt; the T.6 encoding. This also matches explanations in Wikipedia)<o=
:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nb=
sp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; *T38Fax=
TranscodingJBIG*: Indicates the ability to convert to/from JBIG <o:p></o:p>=
</span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; to reduce bandwi=
dth. This<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&=
gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&=
gt; is a boolean parameter (inclusion =3D true, exclusion =3D false).<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p=
></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>It is <span style=3D=
'color:red'>possible for a T.30&lt;-&gt;T.38 gateway</span> to <span style=
=3D'color:red'>provide these behaviors if desired</span>, and the resulting=
 T.38 bitstream would differ in some noticeable ways from the T.30 bitstrea=
m. However, based on discussions with various knowledgeable parties during =
our previous work in this group, it appears that it is highly unusual for a=
 T.38 implementation (gateway or terminal) to actually perform any of these=
 three functions.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN=
-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#993366'><o:p=
>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'fo=
nt-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#993366'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:=
l1 level1 lfo7'><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#993366'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'=
>=F0<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>&nbsp; </span></span></spa=
n><![endif]><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Couri=
er New";color:#993366'>it&#8217;s a gateway capability!<o:p></o:p></span></=
p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1 leve=
l1 lfo7'><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;=
font-family:Wingdings;color:#993366'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>=F0<sp=
an style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>&nbsp; </span></span></span><![en=
dif]><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"=
;color:#993366'>all your three referred T.38 parameters are subject of the =
IM-MGW implementation!<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=
=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#993366'=
>and ALU supports the recommended default values by Table H.2/T.38 (which s=
hould be inline with your proposal).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNor=
mal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";=
color:#993366'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=
=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#993366'=
>Hence, Kevin explicitly confirms this also as gateway capability!<o:p></o:=
p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.=
0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#993366'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p=
 class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family=
:"Courier New";color:#993366'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoN=
ormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New=
";color:#993366'>Albrecht<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span s=
tyle=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#993366'><o:p>&nbs=
p;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;fon=
t-family:"Courier New";color:#993366'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=
=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";colo=
r:#993366'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'=
font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#993366'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p>=
</span></p><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;pa=
dding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><sp=
an lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"=
'> Belling, Thomas (NSN - DE/Munich) [mailto:thomas.belling@nsn.com] <br><b=
>Sent:</b> Mittwoch, 1. August 2012 16:46<br><b>To:</b> Schwarz, Albrecht (=
Albrecht); 3GPP_TSG_CT_WG3@LIST.ETSI.ORG<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: H.248-contr=
olled T.38 configurations: SDP- vs Property-based H.248 signalling<o:p></o:=
p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Cali=
bri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Dear Albrecht,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DM=
soNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri"=
,"sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Thanks for your comments.<o:p></o:p></span></p=
><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fam=
ily:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"C=
alibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>with respect to T38FaxFillBitRemoval, T=
38FaxTranscodingMMR and T38FaxTranscodingJBIG SDP attributes, to which Note=
s 1 and 2 relate, &nbsp;I had some discussions at the SIP forum FoIP mailin=
g list as you suggested.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span la=
ng=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";col=
or:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DE=
N-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F=
497D'>And it was confirmed that unless you do some &#8220;transcoding&#8221=
; of the payload within T.38 at the MGW, those properties relate to the rem=
ote CS FAX endpoint. However, people thought that not signaling those prope=
rties in H.248v4 might be OK, because the default values which then apply a=
re likely to be supported by any receiving CS endpoint. The only open issue=
 where I did not yet receive any reply is whether any harm is done if the C=
S endpoint behaves differently when sending.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=
=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Cali=
bri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMso=
Normal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","=
sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Thomas<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal=
><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-s=
erif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span=
 lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";=
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=
=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color=
:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div style=3D'border:none;border=
-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b=
><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-se=
rif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> 3GPP_TSG_CT_WG3 - Core Network and Terminals WG=
 3 [mailto:3GPP_TSG_CT_WG3@LIST.ETSI.ORG] <b>On Behalf Of </b>ext Schwarz, =
Albrecht (Albrecht)<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, August 01, 2012 4:17 PM<br><=
b>To:</b> 3GPP_TSG_CT_WG3@LIST.ETSI.ORG<br><b>Subject:</b> H.248-controlled=
 T.38 configurations: SDP- vs Property-based H.248 signalling<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><p class=
=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";colo=
r:#002060'>[Cc&#8217;d megaco list due to H.248.2]</span><span style=3D'fon=
t-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><=
p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier Ne=
w";color:#002060'>&nbsp;</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=
"Courier New"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#002060'>The <b>T=
.38 parameters</b> as defined by ITU-T T.38 are related to a <b>T.38 endpoi=
nt implementation</b>, such as the <b>T.38 user plane interworking function=
</b> as e.g. located in an H.248 IP-to-TDM media gateway (e.g. 3GPP IM-MGW)=
.</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0=
pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#002060'>&nbsp;</span><span style=3D'fon=
t-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><=
p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier Ne=
w";color:#002060'>There are fundamentally two signaling options for such T.=
38 configurations:</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Couri=
er New"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><ol start=3D1 type=3Da><li class=3DMso=
Normal style=3D'color:#002060;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo3'><b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Courier New"'>SDP-based</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:"Courier New"'>: using <b>T.38 Annex D</b> defined SDP elements embe=
dded in H.248 descriptors<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=3DMsoNormal style=
=3D'color:#002060;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-li=
st:l2 level1 lfo3'><b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>Property-based</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=
"Courier New"'>: using <b>H.248.2, IP Fax package</b> defined properties, s=
uch as specified by clauses 10.1.3 to 10.1.7<o:p></o:p></span></li></ol><di=
v><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri=
","sans-serif";color:#002060'>&nbsp;</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;=
font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoN=
ormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#0020=
60'>Both H.248 signalling options are basically equivalent, - independent o=
f SDP- or Property-based signaling elements. The signaling elements relate =
to the T.38 endpoint, but NOT to any remote G3FE.</span><span style=3D'font=
-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p=
 class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New=
";color:#002060'>[Note: the H.248 IP fax package version 1 (from 2005/2007)=
 does not yet contain the latest T.38V4 (2010) parameter. But this aspect i=
s irrelevant in this discussion due to the proposal in 3GPP for the SDP-bas=
ed method.]</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"=
'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font=
-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#002060'>&nbsp;</span=
><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font=
-family:"Courier New";color:#002060'>Thus,</span><span style=3D'font-size:1=
0.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=
=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";colo=
r:#002060'>all &#8220;T.38 SDP attributes&#8221; (in C3-121327) are related=
 to gateway capabilities (such as supported T.38 configurations by an IM-MG=
W implementation) (NOTE: attached is T.38 Table B.1 for H.323 gateways, whi=
ch again underlines the relation to gateway capabilities).</span><span styl=
e=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></di=
v><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Co=
urier New";color:#002060'>The MGC / MGCF may be either</span><span style=3D=
'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><o=
l start=3D1 type=3Da><li class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'color:#002060;mso-margi=
n-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo6'><span st=
yle=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>aware of the supported T=
.38 configuration(s) by his associated MGs or<o:p></o:p></span></li><li cla=
ss=3DMsoNormal style=3D'color:#002060;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bo=
ttom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo6'><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font=
-family:"Courier New"'>unaware.<o:p></o:p></span></li></ol><div><p class=3D=
MsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#=
002060'>Awareness may be achieved via auditing or configuration management.=
</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p></o:=
p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0p=
t;font-family:"Courier New";color:#002060'>Unawareness is basically possibl=
e, but may lead to inefficient or even ineffective H.248 scenarios for T.38=
.</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0=
pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#002060'>Dependent on the amount of &#82=
20;supported T.38 configuration(s)&#8221; knowledge at MGC level would be t=
he content of the SIP-level SDP O/A procedures.</span><span style=3D'font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p c=
lass=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","san=
s-serif";color:#002060'>&nbsp;</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-f=
amily:"Courier New"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>=
<span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#002060'>Co=
nclusions for <b>C3-121327</b> (<a href=3D"http://www.3gpp.org/ftp/tsg_ct/W=
G3_interworking_ex-CN3/TSGC3_70_Chicago/Docs/C3-121327.zip">http://www.3gpp=
.org/ftp/tsg_ct/WG3_interworking_ex-CN3/TSGC3_70_Chicago/Docs/C3-121327.zip=
</a>):</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:=
p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size=
:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#002060'>NOTEs 1 and 2 in Table X.3=
.1 are incorrect in my opinion.</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:"Courier New"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal=
><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#002060'>T=
he <b>text</b> related to &#8220;remote CS FAX equipment&#8221; (term shoul=
d be anyway replaced by term G3FE) should be just <b>deleted</b>. And there=
 would be correspondent changes at other tables.</span><span style=3D'font-=
size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sa=
ns-serif";color:#002060'>&nbsp;</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:"Courier New"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal=
><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#002060'>-=
Albrecht</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><=
o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-si=
ze:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#002060'>&nbsp;</span><s=
pan style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p></o:p></span>=
</p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fa=
mily:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#C00000'>&nbsp;</span><span style=3D'font=
-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p=
 class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New=
"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=
=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</span><span=
 style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p></o:p></span></p=
></div></div></body></html>=

--_000_5F7BCCF5541B7444830A2288ABBEBC96218B57EC14FRMRSSXCHMBSD_--

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From: Christian Groves <Christian.Groves@nteczone.com>
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Subject: Re: [Megaco] H.248-controlled T.38 configurations: SDP- vs Property-based H.248 signalling
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Hello Albrecht,

Yes I would agree that signalling elements from H.248.2 relate to the 
T.38 termination on a MG, i.e. the endpoint on a local MG. H.245 Annex B 
also indicates that T.38 parameters such as fillBiTRemoval and 
TranscodingJBIG indicate the gateway is in scope.

Regards, Christian

On 2/08/2012 12:16 AM, Schwarz, Albrecht (Albrecht) wrote:
> [Cc’d megaco list due to H.248.2]
> The *T.38 parameters* as defined by ITU-T T.38 are related to a *T.38 
> endpoint implementation*, such as the *T.38 user plane interworking 
> function* as e.g. located in an H.248 IP-to-TDM media gateway (e.g. 
> 3GPP IM-MGW).
> There are fundamentally two signaling options for such T.38 
> configurations:
>
>  1. *SDP-based*: using *T.38 Annex D* defined SDP elements embedded in
>     H.248 descriptors
>  2. *Property-based*: using *H.248.2, IP Fax package* defined
>     properties, such as specified by clauses 10.1.3 to 10.1.7
>
> Both H.248 signalling options are basically equivalent, - independent 
> of SDP- or Property-based signaling elements. The signaling elements 
> relate to the T.38 endpoint, but NOT to any remote G3FE.
> [Note: the H.248 IP fax package version 1 (from 2005/2007) does not 
> yet contain the latest T.38V4 (2010) parameter. But this aspect is 
> irrelevant in this discussion due to the proposal in 3GPP for the 
> SDP-based method.]
> Thus,
> all “T.38 SDP attributes” (in C3-121327) are related to gateway 
> capabilities (such as supported T.38 configurations by an IM-MGW 
> implementation) (NOTE: attached is T.38 Table B.1 for H.323 gateways, 
> which again underlines the relation to gateway capabilities).
> The MGC / MGCF may be either
>
>  1. aware of the supported T.38 configuration(s) by his associated MGs or
>  2. unaware.
>
> Awareness may be achieved via auditing or configuration management.
> Unawareness is basically possible, but may lead to inefficient or even 
> ineffective H.248 scenarios for T.38.
> Dependent on the amount of “supported T.38 configuration(s)” knowledge 
> at MGC level would be the content of the SIP-level SDP O/A procedures.
> Conclusions for *C3-121327* 
> (_http://www.3gpp.org/ftp/tsg_ct/WG3_interworking_ex-CN3/TSGC3_70_Chicago/Docs/C3-121327.zip_):
> NOTEs 1 and 2 in Table X.3.1 are incorrect in my opinion.
> The *text* related to “remote CS FAX equipment” (term should be anyway 
> replaced by term G3FE) should be just *deleted*. And there would be 
> correspondent changes at other tables.
> -Albrecht
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Megaco mailing list
> Megaco@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/megaco


From albrecht.schwarz@alcatel-lucent.com  Fri Aug  3 01:26:00 2012
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To: "Belling, Thomas (NSN - DE/Munich)" <thomas.belling@nsn.com>, "3GPP_TSG_CT_WG3@LIST.ETSI.ORG" <3GPP_TSG_CT_WG3@LIST.ETSI.ORG>
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Thread-Topic: H.248-controlled T.38 configurations: SDP- vs Property-based H.248 signalling
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Subject: Re: [Megaco] H.248-controlled T.38 configurations: SDP- vs Property-based H.248 signalling
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Hello Thomas,
looks like that we are now on the same page, i.e. if the T.38 endpoint (her=
e IM-MGW) would support that capability, then it could be also used in the =
negotiation of T.38 configurations with the remote T.38 endpoint.
Hence, the T.38 parameters are not related to remote G3FEs.
There would be then following changes in your CRs, let's take Table X.2.1 a=
s example:



Table X.2.1: Recommended configuration for T.38 SDP attribute values.

T38FaxVersion


Version 2 or higher. (NOTE 1)


T38MaxBitRate


14 400


T38FaxFillBitRemoval


FALSE (NOTE 2)


T38FaxTranscodingMMR


FALSE (NOTE 2)


T38FaxTranscodingJBIG


FALSE (NOTE 2)


T38FaxRateManagement


'transferredTCF'


T38FaxMaxBuffer


1800


T38FaxMaxDatagram


At least 150


T38FaxMaxIFP


40 (NOTE 3)


T38FaxUdpEC


't38UDPRedundancy'


T38FaxUdpECDepth


Minred: 1; Maxred: 2 (NOTE 3)


T38FaxUdpFECMaxSpan


3 (NOTE 3)


T38ModemType


't38G3FaxOnly' (NOTE 2, NOTE 3)


NOTE 1:    With Version 4, default values for the SDP attributes apply if t=
he attributes are omitted. However, some values relate to capabilities of t=
he remote CS FAX equipment unknown to the MGCF.

NOTE 2:    This value relates to capabilities of the remote CS FAX equipmen=
t unknown to the MGCF. The recommended value (which is also the default val=
ue in T.38 version 4) is likely to be supported by FAX equipment in CS netw=
orks.

NOTE 3:    Only applicable for T.38 version 4.


Would you agree?
Albrecht


From: Belling, Thomas (NSN - DE/Munich) [mailto:thomas.belling@nsn.com]
Sent: Donnerstag, 2. August 2012 11:03
To: Schwarz, Albrecht (Albrecht); 3GPP_TSG_CT_WG3@LIST.ETSI.ORG
Subject: RE: H.248-controlled T.38 configurations: SDP- vs Property-based H=
.248 signalling

Hello Albrecht,

a gateway could support FAX "transcoding", as I like to call it, and then u=
se those parameters. But as Kevin wrote, it is highly unusual for MGW imple=
mentations to do so. In my view we should not burden the MGW with such func=
tionality and the benefit is also questionable, in particular because Kevin=
 believes the JBIG and NMR encoding are also rarely used by T.38 terminals.=
 I was rather envisioning a reframing of T.30 at the MGW. Reading your expl=
anation that you support the default values I suspect this is also what you=
r MGW does (as mine). Also in the table B.1 you attached those parameters a=
re "optional". So, depending on MGW implementation, those could either be c=
apabilities of the CS FAX equipment (if a reframing is done at the MGW as I=
 envision), or of the MGW (if the MGW performs FAX "transcoding").

For the 3GPP profiles, we do not necesarrily include any conceivable option=
 but only options with a real benefit. I would prefer not to include FAX "t=
ranscoding" for the reasons outlined above. Assuming that we only want to u=
se the default value, it does not need to be signalled to the MGW but can r=
ather be a provisioned value. So I do not see a need to propagate those par=
ameters over the Mn interface.

Perhaps the NOTES should be phrased a bit clearer and include an explanatio=
n that only T.30 reframing is included in the Mn profile and under this con=
dition, those SDP attributes relate to capabilities of the CS FAX equipment=
.

Thomas



From: 3GPP_TSG_CT_WG3 - Core Network and Terminals WG 3 [mailto:3GPP_TSG_CT=
_WG3@LIST.ETSI.ORG] On Behalf Of ext Schwarz, Albrecht (Albrecht)
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2012 10:05 AM
To: 3GPP_TSG_CT_WG3@LIST.ETSI.ORG
Subject: Re: H.248-controlled T.38 configurations: SDP- vs Property-based H=
.248 signalling

Hello Thomas,

I followed the SIP Forum FoIP thread, but I fail to see that confirmation t=
owards remote G3FE.
Actually it's rather the opposite, see Kevin's reply to you:


> (I did not find any definition of MMR format apart from "Modified

> Modified Read" in T.38. However on Annex VI of T.30, MMR is defined as

> the T.6 encoding. This also matches explanations in Wikipedia)

>

> *T38FaxTranscodingJBIG*: Indicates the ability to convert to/from JBIG

> to reduce bandwidth. This

>

> is a boolean parameter (inclusion =3D true, exclusion =3D false).



It is possible for a T.30<->T.38 gateway to provide these behaviors if desi=
red, and the resulting T.38 bitstream would differ in some noticeable ways =
from the T.30 bitstream. However, based on discussions with various knowled=
geable parties during our previous work in this group, it appears that it i=
s highly unusual for a T.38 implementation (gateway or terminal) to actuall=
y perform any of these three functions.



=F0  it's a gateway capability!

=F0  all your three referred T.38 parameters are subject of the IM-MGW impl=
ementation!
and ALU supports the recommended default values by Table H.2/T.38 (which sh=
ould be inline with your proposal).

Hence, Kevin explicitly confirms this also as gateway capability!

Regards,
Albrecht




From: Belling, Thomas (NSN - DE/Munich) [mailto:thomas.belling@nsn.com]
Sent: Mittwoch, 1. August 2012 16:46
To: Schwarz, Albrecht (Albrecht); 3GPP_TSG_CT_WG3@LIST.ETSI.ORG<mailto:3GPP=
_TSG_CT_WG3@LIST.ETSI.ORG>
Subject: RE: H.248-controlled T.38 configurations: SDP- vs Property-based H=
.248 signalling

Dear Albrecht,

Thanks for your comments.

with respect to T38FaxFillBitRemoval, T38FaxTranscodingMMR and T38FaxTransc=
odingJBIG SDP attributes, to which Notes 1 and 2 relate,  I had some discus=
sions at the SIP forum FoIP mailing list as you suggested.

And it was confirmed that unless you do some "transcoding" of the payload w=
ithin T.38 at the MGW, those properties relate to the remote CS FAX endpoin=
t. However, people thought that not signaling those properties in H.248v4 m=
ight be OK, because the default values which then apply are likely to be su=
pported by any receiving CS endpoint. The only open issue where I did not y=
et receive any reply is whether any harm is done if the CS endpoint behaves=
 differently when sending.

Thomas



From: 3GPP_TSG_CT_WG3 - Core Network and Terminals WG 3 [mailto:3GPP_TSG_CT=
_WG3@LIST.ETSI.ORG] On Behalf Of ext Schwarz, Albrecht (Albrecht)
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2012 4:17 PM
To: 3GPP_TSG_CT_WG3@LIST.ETSI.ORG<mailto:3GPP_TSG_CT_WG3@LIST.ETSI.ORG>
Subject: H.248-controlled T.38 configurations: SDP- vs Property-based H.248=
 signalling

[Cc'd megaco list due to H.248.2]

The T.38 parameters as defined by ITU-T T.38 are related to a T.38 endpoint=
 implementation, such as the T.38 user plane interworking function as e.g. =
located in an H.248 IP-to-TDM media gateway (e.g. 3GPP IM-MGW).

There are fundamentally two signaling options for such T.38 configurations:

 1.  SDP-based: using T.38 Annex D defined SDP elements embedded in H.248 d=
escriptors
 2.  Property-based: using H.248.2, IP Fax package defined properties, such=
 as specified by clauses 10.1.3 to 10.1.7

Both H.248 signalling options are basically equivalent, - independent of SD=
P- or Property-based signaling elements. The signaling elements relate to t=
he T.38 endpoint, but NOT to any remote G3FE.
[Note: the H.248 IP fax package version 1 (from 2005/2007) does not yet con=
tain the latest T.38V4 (2010) parameter. But this aspect is irrelevant in t=
his discussion due to the proposal in 3GPP for the SDP-based method.]

Thus,
all "T.38 SDP attributes" (in C3-121327) are related to gateway capabilitie=
s (such as supported T.38 configurations by an IM-MGW implementation) (NOTE=
: attached is T.38 Table B.1 for H.323 gateways, which again underlines the=
 relation to gateway capabilities).
The MGC / MGCF may be either

 1.  aware of the supported T.38 configuration(s) by his associated MGs or
 2.  unaware.
Awareness may be achieved via auditing or configuration management.
Unawareness is basically possible, but may lead to inefficient or even inef=
fective H.248 scenarios for T.38.
Dependent on the amount of "supported T.38 configuration(s)" knowledge at M=
GC level would be the content of the SIP-level SDP O/A procedures.

Conclusions for C3-121327 (http://www.3gpp.org/ftp/tsg_ct/WG3_interworking_=
ex-CN3/TSGC3_70_Chicago/Docs/C3-121327.zip):
NOTEs 1 and 2 in Table X.3.1 are incorrect in my opinion.
The text related to "remote CS FAX equipment" (term should be anyway replac=
ed by term G3FE) should be just deleted. And there would be correspondent c=
hanges at other tables.

-Albrecht





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<o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" />
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<o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit">
<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DDE link=3Dblue vlink=
=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US=
 style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#003300'>Hello T=
homas,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#003300'>looks like th=
at we are now on the same page, i.e. if the T.38 endpoint (here IM-MGW) wou=
ld support that capability, then it could be also used in the negotiation o=
f T.38 configurations with the remote T.38 endpoint.<o:p></o:p></span></p><=
p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-famil=
y:"Courier New";color:#003300'>Hence, the T.38 parameters are not related t=
o remote G3FEs.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-U=
S style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#003300'>There =
would be then following changes in your CRs, let&#8217;s take Table X.2.1 a=
s example:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US sty=
le=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#003300'><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size=
:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#003300'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></=
p><p class=3DTH><span lang=3DEN-GB>Table <span style=3D'background:yellow;m=
so-highlight:yellow'>X</span>.2.1: Recommended configuration for T.38 SDP a=
ttribute values.<o:p></o:p></span></p><div align=3Dcenter><table class=3DMs=
oNormalTable border=3D1 cellspacing=3D0 cellpadding=3D0 width=3D638 style=
=3D'margin-left:-142.3pt;border-collapse:collapse;border:none'><tr><td widt=
h=3D285 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:213.4pt;border-top:1.5pt;border-left:1.=
5pt;border-bottom:1.0pt;border-right:1.0pt;border-color:windowtext;border-s=
tyle:solid;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'><p class=3DTAL><b><span lang=3DEN-G=
B>T38FaxVersion<o:p></o:p></span></b></p></td><td width=3D354 valign=3Dtop =
style=3D'width:265.45pt;border-top:solid windowtext 1.5pt;border-left:none;=
border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.5pt;pa=
dding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'><p class=3DTAL><span lang=3DEN-GB>Version 2 or h=
igher. (NOTE 1)<o:p></o:p></span></p></td></tr><tr><td width=3D285 valign=
=3Dtop style=3D'width:213.4pt;border-top:none;border-left:solid windowtext =
1.5pt;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.=
0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'><p class=3DTAL><b><span lang=3DEN-GB>T38Ma=
xBitRate<o:p></o:p></span></b></p></td><td width=3D354 valign=3Dtop style=
=3D'width:265.45pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid win=
dowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.5pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4=
pt'><p class=3DTAL><span lang=3DEN-GB>14 400<span style=3D'color:black'><o:=
p></o:p></span></span></p></td></tr><tr><td width=3D285 valign=3Dtop style=
=3D'width:213.4pt;border-top:none;border-left:solid windowtext 1.5pt;border=
-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:=
0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'><p class=3DTAL><b><span lang=3DEN-GB>T38FaxFillBitRemo=
val<o:p></o:p></span></b></p></td><td width=3D354 valign=3Dtop style=3D'wid=
th:265.45pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext=
 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.5pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'><p =
class=3DTAL><span lang=3DEN-GB>FALSE <s>(NOTE 2)</s><o:p></o:p></span></p><=
/td></tr><tr><td width=3D285 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:213.4pt;border-top=
:none;border-left:solid windowtext 1.5pt;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0=
pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'><p clas=
s=3DTAL><b><span lang=3DEN-GB>T38FaxTranscodingMMR<o:p></o:p></span></b></p=
></td><td width=3D354 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:265.45pt;border-top:none;=
border-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid wi=
ndowtext 1.5pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'><p class=3DTAL><span lang=3DEN-=
GB>FALSE <s>(NOTE 2)</s><o:p></o:p></span></p></td></tr><tr><td width=3D285=
 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:213.4pt;border-top:none;border-left:solid wind=
owtext 1.5pt;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid window=
text 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'><p class=3DTAL><b><span lang=3DEN-G=
B>T38FaxTranscodingJBIG<o:p></o:p></span></b></p></td><td width=3D354 valig=
n=3Dtop style=3D'width:265.45pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bot=
tom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.5pt;padding:0cm =
5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'><p class=3DTAL><span lang=3DEN-GB>FALSE <s>(NOTE 2)</s><o:=
p></o:p></span></p></td></tr><tr><td width=3D285 valign=3Dtop style=3D'widt=
h:213.4pt;border-top:none;border-left:solid windowtext 1.5pt;border-bottom:=
solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4p=
t 0cm 5.4pt'><p class=3DTAL><b><span lang=3DEN-GB>T38FaxRateManagement<o:p>=
</o:p></span></b></p></td><td width=3D354 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:265.4=
5pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;b=
order-right:solid windowtext 1.5pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'><p class=3D=
TAL><span lang=3DEN-GB>'transferredTCF'<o:p></o:p></span></p></td></tr><tr>=
<td width=3D285 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:213.4pt;border-top:none;border-=
left:solid windowtext 1.5pt;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-rig=
ht:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'><p class=3DTAL><b><s=
pan lang=3DEN-GB>T38FaxMaxBuffer<o:p></o:p></span></b></p></td><td width=3D=
354 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:265.45pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;b=
order-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.5pt;pad=
ding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'><p class=3DTAL><span lang=3DEN-GB>1800<span style=
=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></span></p></td></tr><tr><td width=3D285=
 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:213.4pt;border-top:none;border-left:solid wind=
owtext 1.5pt;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid window=
text 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'><p class=3DTAL><b><span lang=3DEN-G=
B>T38FaxMaxDatagram<o:p></o:p></span></b></p></td><td width=3D354 valign=3D=
top style=3D'width:265.45pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:=
solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.5pt;padding:0cm 5.4p=
t 0cm 5.4pt'><p class=3DTAL><span lang=3DEN-GB>At least 150<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p></td></tr><tr><td width=3D285 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:213.4pt;bor=
der-top:none;border-left:solid windowtext 1.5pt;border-bottom:solid windowt=
ext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'>=
<p class=3DTAL><b><span lang=3DEN-GB>T38FaxMaxIFP<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>=
</td><td width=3D354 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:265.45pt;border-top:none;b=
order-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid win=
dowtext 1.5pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'><p class=3DTAL><span lang=3DEN-G=
B>40 (NOTE 3)<o:p></o:p></span></p></td></tr><tr><td width=3D285 valign=3Dt=
op style=3D'width:213.4pt;border-top:none;border-left:solid windowtext 1.5p=
t;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;=
padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'><p class=3DTAL><b><span lang=3DEN-GB>T38FaxUdp=
EC<o:p></o:p></span></b></p></td><td width=3D354 valign=3Dtop style=3D'widt=
h:265.45pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext =
1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.5pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'><p c=
lass=3DTAL><span lang=3DEN-GB>'t38UDPRedundancy'<o:p></o:p></span></p></td>=
</tr><tr><td width=3D285 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:213.4pt;border-top:non=
e;border-left:solid windowtext 1.5pt;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;b=
order-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'><p class=3D=
TAL><b><span lang=3DEN-GB>T38FaxUdpECDepth<o:p></o:p></span></b></p></td><t=
d width=3D354 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:265.45pt;border-top:none;border-l=
eft:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext=
 1.5pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'><p class=3DTAL><span lang=3DEN-GB>Minre=
d: 1; Maxred: 2 (NOTE 3)<o:p></o:p></span></p></td></tr><tr><td width=3D285=
 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:213.4pt;border-top:none;border-left:solid wind=
owtext 1.5pt;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid window=
text 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt;border-top:none !msorm;border-left:s=
olid windowtext 1.5pt !msorm;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt !msorm;bo=
rder-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt !msorm;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt !msorm=
'><p class=3DTAL><b><span lang=3DEN-GB>T38FaxUdpFECMaxSpan<o:p></o:p></span=
></b></p></td><td width=3D354 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:265.45pt;border-t=
op:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:=
solid windowtext 1.5pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt;border-top:solid windowt=
ext 1.0pt !msorm;border-left:none !msorm;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0=
pt !msorm;border-right:solid windowtext 1.5pt !msorm;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm =
5.4pt !msorm'><p class=3DTAL><span lang=3DEN-GB>3 (NOTE 3)<o:p></o:p></span=
></p></td></tr><tr><td width=3D285 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:213.4pt;bord=
er-top:none;border-left:solid windowtext 1.5pt;border-bottom:solid windowte=
xt 1.5pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'><=
p class=3DTAL><b><span lang=3DEN-GB>T38ModemType<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><=
/td><td width=3D354 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:265.45pt;border-top:none;bo=
rder-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.5pt;border-right:solid wind=
owtext 1.5pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'><p class=3DTAL><span lang=3DEN-GB=
>'t38G3FaxOnly' (<s>NOTE 2,</s> NOTE 3)<o:p></o:p></span></p></td></tr><tr>=
<td width=3D638 colspan=3D2 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:478.85pt;border:sol=
id windowtext 1.5pt;border-top:none;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'><p class=
=3DTAN><span lang=3DEN-GB>NOTE 1:=A0=A0=A0 With Version 4, default values f=
or the SDP attributes apply if the attributes are omitted. <s>However, some=
 values relate to capabilities of the remote CS FAX equipment unknown to th=
e MGCF.</s></span><span lang=3DEN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DTAN><=
s><span lang=3DEN-GB>NOTE 2:=A0=A0=A0 This value relates to capabilities of=
 the remote CS FAX equipment unknown to the MGCF. The recommended value (wh=
ich is also the default value in T.38 version 4) is likely to be supported =
by FAX equipment in CS networks.<o:p></o:p></span></s></p><p class=3DTAN><s=
pan lang=3DEN-GB>NOTE 3: =A0=A0 Only applicable for T.38 version 4.<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></td></tr></table></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-=
GB style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNor=
mal><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";=
color:#003300'>Would you agree?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><=
span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color=
:#003300'>Albrecht<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DE=
N-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#003300'><o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'f=
ont-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#003300'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p><=
/span></p><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;pad=
ding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D=
'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
Belling, Thomas (NSN - DE/Munich) [mailto:thomas.belling@nsn.com] <br><b>Se=
nt:</b> Donnerstag, 2. August 2012 11:03<br><b>To:</b> Schwarz, Albrecht (A=
lbrecht); 3GPP_TSG_CT_WG3@LIST.ETSI.ORG<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: H.248-contro=
lled T.38 configurations: SDP- vs Property-based H.248 signalling<o:p></o:p=
></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Cali=
bri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Hello Albrecht,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"C=
alibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3D=
MsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri=
","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>a gateway could support FAX &#8220;transcodin=
g&#8221;, as I like to call it, and then use those parameters. But as Kevin=
 wrote, it is highly unusual for MGW implementations to do so. In my view w=
e should not burden the MGW with such functionality and the benefit is also=
 questionable, in particular because Kevin believes the JBIG and NMR encodi=
ng are also rarely used by T.38 terminals. I was rather envisioning a refra=
ming of T.30 at the MGW. Reading your explanation that you support the defa=
ult values I suspect this is also what your MGW does (as mine). Also in the=
 table B.1 you attached those parameters are &#8220;optional&#8221;. So, de=
pending on MGW implementation, those could either be capabilities of the CS=
 FAX equipment (if a reframing is done at the MGW as I envision), or of the=
 MGW (if the MGW performs FAX &#8220;transcoding&#8221;).<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p=
 class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family=
:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>For the 3GPP profiles, we do not nec=
esarrily include any conceivable option but only options with a real benefi=
t. I would prefer not to include FAX &#8220;transcoding&#8221; for the reas=
ons outlined above. Assuming that we only want to use the default value, it=
 does not need to be signalled to the MGW but can rather be a provisioned v=
alue. So I do not see a need to propagate those parameters over the Mn inte=
rface.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p=
>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'fo=
nt-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Perhaps th=
e NOTES should be phrased a bit clearer and include an explanation that onl=
y T.30 reframing is included in the Mn profile and under this condition, th=
ose SDP attributes relate to capabilities of the CS FAX equipment.<o:p></o:=
p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.=
0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></sp=
an></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;fo=
nt-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Thomas<o:p></o:p></span></p=
><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fam=
ily:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans=
-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><sp=
an style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F49=
7D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:s=
olid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span=
 lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>=
From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"T=
ahoma","sans-serif"'> 3GPP_TSG_CT_WG3 - Core Network and Terminals WG 3 [ma=
ilto:3GPP_TSG_CT_WG3@LIST.ETSI.ORG] <b>On Behalf Of </b>ext Schwarz, Albrec=
ht (Albrecht)<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, August 02, 2012 10:05 AM<br><b>To:<=
/b> 3GPP_TSG_CT_WG3@LIST.ETSI.ORG<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: H.248-controlled T=
.38 configurations: SDP- vs Property-based H.248 signalling<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoN=
ormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New=
";color:#993366'>Hello Thomas,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><s=
pan lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:=
#993366'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-U=
S style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#993366'>I foll=
owed the SIP Forum FoIP thread, but I fail to see that confirmation towards=
 remote G3FE.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#993366'>Actually=
 it&#8217;s rather the opposite, see Kevin&#8217;s reply to you:<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0p=
t;font-family:"Courier New";color:#993366'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; (I did not find any definition =
of MMR format apart from &#8220;Modified <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; Modified Read&#8221; in T.38. However o=
n Annex VI of T.30, MMR is defined as <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoP=
lainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; the T.6 encoding. This also matches explan=
ations in Wikipedia)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lan=
g=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lan=
g=3DEN-US>&gt; *T38FaxTranscodingJBIG*: Indicates the ability to convert to=
/from JBIG <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US=
>&gt; to reduce bandwidth. This<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTex=
t><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; is a boolean parameter (inclusion =3D true, exclu=
sion =3D false).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3D=
EN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-U=
S>It is <span style=3D'color:red'>possible for a T.30&lt;-&gt;T.38 gateway<=
/span> to <span style=3D'color:red'>provide these behaviors if desired</spa=
n>, and the resulting T.38 bitstream would differ in some noticeable ways f=
rom the T.30 bitstream. However, based on discussions with various knowledg=
eable parties during our previous work in this group, it appears that it is=
 highly unusual for a T.38 implementation (gateway or terminal) to actually=
 perform any of these three functions.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoN=
ormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New=
";color:#993366'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lan=
g=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#993366=
'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'text-ind=
ent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3DEN-U=
S style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#993366'><span styl=
e=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>=F0<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>&nbsp=
; </span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0=
pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#993366'>it&#8217;s a gateway capability=
!<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'text-indent:-18=
.0pt;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#993366'><span style=3D'ms=
o-list:Ignore'>=F0<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>&nbsp; </spa=
n></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font=
-family:"Courier New";color:#993366'>all your three referred T.38 parameter=
s are subject of the IM-MGW implementation!<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=
=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Cour=
ier New";color:#993366'>and ALU supports the recommended default values by =
Table H.2/T.38 (which should be inline with your proposal).<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;fon=
t-family:"Courier New";color:#993366'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=
=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Cour=
ier New";color:#993366'>Hence, Kevin explicitly confirms this also as gatew=
ay capability!<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US=
 style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#993366'><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-=
size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#993366'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;f=
ont-family:"Courier New";color:#993366'>Albrecht<o:p></o:p></span></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";c=
olor:#993366'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=
=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#993366'><o:p>&nbsp;</=
o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fa=
mily:"Courier New";color:#993366'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMs=
oNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#99=
3366'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top=
:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><sp=
an lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"=
'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=
"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Belling, Thomas (NSN - DE/Munich) [<a href=3D"mailt=
o:thomas.belling@nsn.com">mailto:thomas.belling@nsn.com</a>] <br><b>Sent:</=
b> Mittwoch, 1. August 2012 16:46<br><b>To:</b> Schwarz, Albrecht (Albrecht=
); <a href=3D"mailto:3GPP_TSG_CT_WG3@LIST.ETSI.ORG">3GPP_TSG_CT_WG3@LIST.ET=
SI.ORG</a><br><b>Subject:</b> RE: H.248-controlled T.38 configurations: SDP=
- vs Property-based H.248 signalling<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p cl=
ass=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-U=
S style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Dear Albrecht,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN=
-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F4=
97D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US st=
yle=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>T=
hanks for your comments.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span la=
ng=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";col=
or:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DE=
N-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F=
497D'>with respect to T38FaxFillBitRemoval, T38FaxTranscodingMMR and T38Fax=
TranscodingJBIG SDP attributes, to which Notes 1 and 2 relate, &nbsp;I had =
some discussions at the SIP forum FoIP mailing list as you suggested.<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:=
11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p><=
/span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt=
;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>And it was confirmed tha=
t unless you do some &#8220;transcoding&#8221; of the payload within T.38 a=
t the MGW, those properties relate to the remote CS FAX endpoint. However, =
people thought that not signaling those properties in H.248v4 might be OK, =
because the default values which then apply are likely to be supported by a=
ny receiving CS endpoint. The only open issue where I did not yet receive a=
ny reply is whether any harm is done if the CS endpoint behaves differently=
 when sending.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US=
 style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D=
'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Thom=
as<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'fo=
nt-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-siz=
e:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p=
></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0=
pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding=
:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'fon=
t-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=
=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> 3GPP=
_TSG_CT_WG3 - Core Network and Terminals WG 3 [<a href=3D"mailto:3GPP_TSG_C=
T_WG3@LIST.ETSI.ORG">mailto:3GPP_TSG_CT_WG3@LIST.ETSI.ORG</a>] <b>On Behalf=
 Of </b>ext Schwarz, Albrecht (Albrecht)<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, August =
01, 2012 4:17 PM<br><b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:3GPP_TSG_CT_WG3@LIST.ETSI.=
ORG">3GPP_TSG_CT_WG3@LIST.ETSI.ORG</a><br><b>Subject:</b> H.248-controlled =
T.38 configurations: SDP- vs Property-based H.248 signalling<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><p class=
=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";colo=
r:#002060'>[Cc&#8217;d megaco list due to H.248.2]</span><span style=3D'fon=
t-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><=
p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier Ne=
w";color:#002060'>&nbsp;</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=
"Courier New"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#002060'>The <b>T=
.38 parameters</b> as defined by ITU-T T.38 are related to a <b>T.38 endpoi=
nt implementation</b>, such as the <b>T.38 user plane interworking function=
</b> as e.g. located in an H.248 IP-to-TDM media gateway (e.g. 3GPP IM-MGW)=
.</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0=
pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#002060'>&nbsp;</span><span style=3D'fon=
t-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><=
p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier Ne=
w";color:#002060'>There are fundamentally two signaling options for such T.=
38 configurations:</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Couri=
er New"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><ol start=3D1 type=3Da><li class=3DMso=
Normal style=3D'color:#002060;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo5'><b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Courier New"'>SDP-based</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:"Courier New"'>: using <b>T.38 Annex D</b> defined SDP elements embe=
dded in H.248 descriptors<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=3DMsoNormal style=
=3D'color:#002060;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-li=
st:l2 level1 lfo5'><b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>Property-based</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=
"Courier New"'>: using <b>H.248.2, IP Fax package</b> defined properties, s=
uch as specified by clauses 10.1.3 to 10.1.7<o:p></o:p></span></li></ol><di=
v><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri=
","sans-serif";color:#002060'>&nbsp;</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;=
font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoN=
ormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#0020=
60'>Both H.248 signalling options are basically equivalent, - independent o=
f SDP- or Property-based signaling elements. The signaling elements relate =
to the T.38 endpoint, but NOT to any remote G3FE.</span><span style=3D'font=
-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p=
 class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New=
";color:#002060'>[Note: the H.248 IP fax package version 1 (from 2005/2007)=
 does not yet contain the latest T.38V4 (2010) parameter. But this aspect i=
s irrelevant in this discussion due to the proposal in 3GPP for the SDP-bas=
ed method.]</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"=
'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font=
-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#002060'>&nbsp;</span=
><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font=
-family:"Courier New";color:#002060'>Thus,</span><span style=3D'font-size:1=
0.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=
=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";colo=
r:#002060'>all &#8220;T.38 SDP attributes&#8221; (in C3-121327) are related=
 to gateway capabilities (such as supported T.38 configurations by an IM-MG=
W implementation) (NOTE: attached is T.38 Table B.1 for H.323 gateways, whi=
ch again underlines the relation to gateway capabilities).</span><span styl=
e=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></di=
v><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Co=
urier New";color:#002060'>The MGC / MGCF may be either</span><span style=3D=
'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><o=
l start=3D1 type=3Da><li class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'color:#002060;mso-margi=
n-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo8'><span st=
yle=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>aware of the supported T=
.38 configuration(s) by his associated MGs or<o:p></o:p></span></li><li cla=
ss=3DMsoNormal style=3D'color:#002060;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bo=
ttom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo8'><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font=
-family:"Courier New"'>unaware.<o:p></o:p></span></li></ol><div><p class=3D=
MsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#=
002060'>Awareness may be achieved via auditing or configuration management.=
</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p></o:=
p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0p=
t;font-family:"Courier New";color:#002060'>Unawareness is basically possibl=
e, but may lead to inefficient or even ineffective H.248 scenarios for T.38=
.</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0=
pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#002060'>Dependent on the amount of &#82=
20;supported T.38 configuration(s)&#8221; knowledge at MGC level would be t=
he content of the SIP-level SDP O/A procedures.</span><span style=3D'font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p c=
lass=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","san=
s-serif";color:#002060'>&nbsp;</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-f=
amily:"Courier New"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>=
<span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#002060'>Co=
nclusions for <b>C3-121327</b> (<a href=3D"http://www.3gpp.org/ftp/tsg_ct/W=
G3_interworking_ex-CN3/TSGC3_70_Chicago/Docs/C3-121327.zip">http://www.3gpp=
.org/ftp/tsg_ct/WG3_interworking_ex-CN3/TSGC3_70_Chicago/Docs/C3-121327.zip=
</a>):</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:=
p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size=
:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#002060'>NOTEs 1 and 2 in Table X.3=
.1 are incorrect in my opinion.</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:"Courier New"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal=
><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#002060'>T=
he <b>text</b> related to &#8220;remote CS FAX equipment&#8221; (term shoul=
d be anyway replaced by term G3FE) should be just <b>deleted</b>. And there=
 would be correspondent changes at other tables.</span><span style=3D'font-=
size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sa=
ns-serif";color:#002060'>&nbsp;</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:"Courier New"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal=
><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#002060'>-=
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 style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p></o:p></span></p=
></div></div></body></html>=

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From: "Schwarz, Albrecht (Albrecht)" <albrecht.schwarz@alcatel-lucent.com>
To: "Belling, Thomas (NSN - DE/Munich)" <thomas.belling@nsn.com>, "3GPP_TSG_CT_WG3@LIST.ETSI.ORG" <3GPP_TSG_CT_WG3@LIST.ETSI.ORG>
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2012 11:09:47 +0200
Thread-Topic: H.248-controlled T.38 configurations: SDP- vs Property-based H.248 signalling
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Subject: Re: [Megaco] H.248-controlled T.38 configurations: SDP- vs Property-based H.248 signalling
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With below indicated changes, we recommended the default settings for those=
 T.38 parameters, which is FALSE (i.e., 3GPP profiles would then recommend =
NOT to use such T.38 configurations).

Clause X.2 provides a RECOMMENDATION on T.38 configuration(s).
Clause X.3 the correspondent negotiation procedures.

I think that the prescriptive language between both clauses must be consist=
ent (which isn't yet entirely the case in my opinion).

E.g., Table X.3.1:

T38FaxTranscodingJBIG


Accept offer with value "FALSE" or parameter omitted. Otherwise reject offe=
r (NOTE 3).


Do not include parameter in the answer. (NOTE 2)



=F0  Instead of "Otherwise reject offer (NOTE 3)." we should rather specify
"Otherwise, offer SHOULD be rejected (NOTE x)" and

NOTE x - This parameter is not recommended to use, but there might be remot=
e T.38 endpoints with support of that capability. In order to improve the p=
robability of a final successful T.38 call, the remote T.38 endpoint should=
 be indicated not to use this T.38 capability (see ANSWER).

A pure rejection of the OFFER would immediately lead to an unsuccessful T. =
38 call.

/Albrecht

From: Belling, Thomas (NSN - DE/Munich) [mailto:thomas.belling@nsn.com]
Sent: Freitag, 3. August 2012 10:46
To: Schwarz, Albrecht (Albrecht); 3GPP_TSG_CT_WG3@LIST.ETSI.ORG
Subject: RE: H.248-controlled T.38 configurations: SDP- vs Property-based H=
.248 signalling

Dear Albrecht,

my proposal is still not include FAX "transcoding" in the 3GPP profile. Is =
that acceptable to you?

Thomas

From: ext Schwarz, Albrecht (Albrecht) [mailto:albrecht.schwarz@alcatel-luc=
ent.com]
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2012 10:25 AM
To: Belling, Thomas (NSN - DE/Munich); 3GPP_TSG_CT_WG3@LIST.ETSI.ORG
Cc: megaco@ietf.org
Subject: RE: H.248-controlled T.38 configurations: SDP- vs Property-based H=
.248 signalling

Hello Thomas,
looks like that we are now on the same page, i.e. if the T.38 endpoint (her=
e IM-MGW) would support that capability, then it could be also used in the =
negotiation of T.38 configurations with the remote T.38 endpoint.
Hence, the T.38 parameters are not related to remote G3FEs.
There would be then following changes in your CRs, let's take Table X.2.1 a=
s example:



Table X.2.1: Recommended configuration for T.38 SDP attribute values.

T38FaxVersion


Version 2 or higher. (NOTE 1)


T38MaxBitRate


14 400


T38FaxFillBitRemoval


FALSE (NOTE 2)


T38FaxTranscodingMMR


FALSE (NOTE 2)


T38FaxTranscodingJBIG


FALSE (NOTE 2)


T38FaxRateManagement


'transferredTCF'


T38FaxMaxBuffer


1800


T38FaxMaxDatagram


At least 150


T38FaxMaxIFP


40 (NOTE 3)


T38FaxUdpEC


't38UDPRedundancy'


T38FaxUdpECDepth


Minred: 1; Maxred: 2 (NOTE 3)


T38FaxUdpFECMaxSpan


3 (NOTE 3)


T38ModemType


't38G3FaxOnly' (NOTE 2, NOTE 3)


NOTE 1:    With Version 4, default values for the SDP attributes apply if t=
he attributes are omitted. However, some values relate to capabilities of t=
he remote CS FAX equipment unknown to the MGCF.

NOTE 2:    This value relates to capabilities of the remote CS FAX equipmen=
t unknown to the MGCF. The recommended value (which is also the default val=
ue in T.38 version 4) is likely to be supported by FAX equipment in CS netw=
orks.

NOTE 3:    Only applicable for T.38 version 4.


Would you agree?
Albrecht


From: Belling, Thomas (NSN - DE/Munich) [mailto:thomas.belling@nsn.com]
Sent: Donnerstag, 2. August 2012 11:03
To: Schwarz, Albrecht (Albrecht); 3GPP_TSG_CT_WG3@LIST.ETSI.ORG<mailto:3GPP=
_TSG_CT_WG3@LIST.ETSI.ORG>
Subject: RE: H.248-controlled T.38 configurations: SDP- vs Property-based H=
.248 signalling

Hello Albrecht,

a gateway could support FAX "transcoding", as I like to call it, and then u=
se those parameters. But as Kevin wrote, it is highly unusual for MGW imple=
mentations to do so. In my view we should not burden the MGW with such func=
tionality and the benefit is also questionable, in particular because Kevin=
 believes the JBIG and NMR encoding are also rarely used by T.38 terminals.=
 I was rather envisioning a reframing of T.30 at the MGW. Reading your expl=
anation that you support the default values I suspect this is also what you=
r MGW does (as mine). Also in the table B.1 you attached those parameters a=
re "optional". So, depending on MGW implementation, those could either be c=
apabilities of the CS FAX equipment (if a reframing is done at the MGW as I=
 envision), or of the MGW (if the MGW performs FAX "transcoding").

For the 3GPP profiles, we do not necesarrily include any conceivable option=
 but only options with a real benefit. I would prefer not to include FAX "t=
ranscoding" for the reasons outlined above. Assuming that we only want to u=
se the default value, it does not need to be signalled to the MGW but can r=
ather be a provisioned value. So I do not see a need to propagate those par=
ameters over the Mn interface.

Perhaps the NOTES should be phrased a bit clearer and include an explanatio=
n that only T.30 reframing is included in the Mn profile and under this con=
dition, those SDP attributes relate to capabilities of the CS FAX equipment=
.

Thomas



From: 3GPP_TSG_CT_WG3 - Core Network and Terminals WG 3 [mailto:3GPP_TSG_CT=
_WG3@LIST.ETSI.ORG] On Behalf Of ext Schwarz, Albrecht (Albrecht)
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2012 10:05 AM
To: 3GPP_TSG_CT_WG3@LIST.ETSI.ORG<mailto:3GPP_TSG_CT_WG3@LIST.ETSI.ORG>
Subject: Re: H.248-controlled T.38 configurations: SDP- vs Property-based H=
.248 signalling

Hello Thomas,

I followed the SIP Forum FoIP thread, but I fail to see that confirmation t=
owards remote G3FE.
Actually it's rather the opposite, see Kevin's reply to you:


> (I did not find any definition of MMR format apart from "Modified

> Modified Read" in T.38. However on Annex VI of T.30, MMR is defined as

> the T.6 encoding. This also matches explanations in Wikipedia)

>

> *T38FaxTranscodingJBIG*: Indicates the ability to convert to/from JBIG

> to reduce bandwidth. This

>

> is a boolean parameter (inclusion =3D true, exclusion =3D false).



It is possible for a T.30<->T.38 gateway to provide these behaviors if desi=
red, and the resulting T.38 bitstream would differ in some noticeable ways =
from the T.30 bitstream. However, based on discussions with various knowled=
geable parties during our previous work in this group, it appears that it i=
s highly unusual for a T.38 implementation (gateway or terminal) to actuall=
y perform any of these three functions.



=F0  it's a gateway capability!

=F0  all your three referred T.38 parameters are subject of the IM-MGW impl=
ementation!
and ALU supports the recommended default values by Table H.2/T.38 (which sh=
ould be inline with your proposal).

Hence, Kevin explicitly confirms this also as gateway capability!

Regards,
Albrecht




From: Belling, Thomas (NSN - DE/Munich) [mailto:thomas.belling@nsn.com]
Sent: Mittwoch, 1. August 2012 16:46
To: Schwarz, Albrecht (Albrecht); 3GPP_TSG_CT_WG3@LIST.ETSI.ORG<mailto:3GPP=
_TSG_CT_WG3@LIST.ETSI.ORG>
Subject: RE: H.248-controlled T.38 configurations: SDP- vs Property-based H=
.248 signalling

Dear Albrecht,

Thanks for your comments.

with respect to T38FaxFillBitRemoval, T38FaxTranscodingMMR and T38FaxTransc=
odingJBIG SDP attributes, to which Notes 1 and 2 relate,  I had some discus=
sions at the SIP forum FoIP mailing list as you suggested.

And it was confirmed that unless you do some "transcoding" of the payload w=
ithin T.38 at the MGW, those properties relate to the remote CS FAX endpoin=
t. However, people thought that not signaling those properties in H.248v4 m=
ight be OK, because the default values which then apply are likely to be su=
pported by any receiving CS endpoint. The only open issue where I did not y=
et receive any reply is whether any harm is done if the CS endpoint behaves=
 differently when sending.

Thomas



From: 3GPP_TSG_CT_WG3 - Core Network and Terminals WG 3 [mailto:3GPP_TSG_CT=
_WG3@LIST.ETSI.ORG] On Behalf Of ext Schwarz, Albrecht (Albrecht)
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2012 4:17 PM
To: 3GPP_TSG_CT_WG3@LIST.ETSI.ORG<mailto:3GPP_TSG_CT_WG3@LIST.ETSI.ORG>
Subject: H.248-controlled T.38 configurations: SDP- vs Property-based H.248=
 signalling

[Cc'd megaco list due to H.248.2]

The T.38 parameters as defined by ITU-T T.38 are related to a T.38 endpoint=
 implementation, such as the T.38 user plane interworking function as e.g. =
located in an H.248 IP-to-TDM media gateway (e.g. 3GPP IM-MGW).

There are fundamentally two signaling options for such T.38 configurations:

 1.  SDP-based: using T.38 Annex D defined SDP elements embedded in H.248 d=
escriptors
 2.  Property-based: using H.248.2, IP Fax package defined properties, such=
 as specified by clauses 10.1.3 to 10.1.7

Both H.248 signalling options are basically equivalent, - independent of SD=
P- or Property-based signaling elements. The signaling elements relate to t=
he T.38 endpoint, but NOT to any remote G3FE.
[Note: the H.248 IP fax package version 1 (from 2005/2007) does not yet con=
tain the latest T.38V4 (2010) parameter. But this aspect is irrelevant in t=
his discussion due to the proposal in 3GPP for the SDP-based method.]

Thus,
all "T.38 SDP attributes" (in C3-121327) are related to gateway capabilitie=
s (such as supported T.38 configurations by an IM-MGW implementation) (NOTE=
: attached is T.38 Table B.1 for H.323 gateways, which again underlines the=
 relation to gateway capabilities).
The MGC / MGCF may be either

 1.  aware of the supported T.38 configuration(s) by his associated MGs or
 2.  unaware.
Awareness may be achieved via auditing or configuration management.
Unawareness is basically possible, but may lead to inefficient or even inef=
fective H.248 scenarios for T.38.
Dependent on the amount of "supported T.38 configuration(s)" knowledge at M=
GC level would be the content of the SIP-level SDP O/A procedures.

Conclusions for C3-121327 (http://www.3gpp.org/ftp/tsg_ct/WG3_interworking_=
ex-CN3/TSGC3_70_Chicago/Docs/C3-121327.zip):
NOTEs 1 and 2 in Table X.3.1 are incorrect in my opinion.
The text related to "remote CS FAX equipment" (term should be anyway replac=
ed by term G3FE) should be just deleted. And there would be correspondent c=
hanges at other tables.

-Albrecht





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--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit">
<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DDE link=3Dblue vlink=
=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US=
 style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>With belo=
w indicated changes, we recommended the default settings for those T.38 par=
ameters, which is FALSE (i.e., 3GPP profiles would then <b>recommend</b> NO=
T to use such T.38 configurations).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNorm=
al><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";c=
olor:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DE=
N-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>Claus=
e X.2 provides a RECOMMENDATION on T.38 configuration(s).<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:"Courier New";color:black'>Clause X.3 the correspondent negotiation =
procedures.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US st=
yle=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>I think that the prescriptive=
 language between both clauses must be consistent (which isn&#8217;t yet en=
tirely the case in my opinion).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><=
span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color=
:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US=
 style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>E.g., Tab=
le X.3.1:<o:p></o:p></span></p><div align=3Dcenter><table class=3DMsoNormal=
Table border=3D1 cellspacing=3D0 cellpadding=3D0 width=3D643 style=3D'margi=
n-left:-9.0cm;border-collapse:collapse;border:none'><tr><td width=3D170 val=
ign=3Dtop style=3D'width:127.65pt;border:solid windowtext 1.5pt;border-righ=
t:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'><p class=3DTAL><b>T38=
FaxTranscodingJBIG</b><b><span lang=3DEN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></b></p></td>=
<td width=3D246 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:184.3pt;border-top:solid window=
text 1.5pt;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.5pt;border-rig=
ht:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'><p class=3DTAL><span=
 lang=3DEN-US>Accept offer with value &quot;FALSE&quot; or parameter omitte=
d. </span>Otherwise reject offer (NOTE 3). <span lang=3DEN-GB><o:p></o:p></=
span></p></td><td width=3D227 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:6.0cm;border:soli=
d windowtext 1.5pt;border-left:none;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'><p class=
=3DTAL><span lang=3DEN-US>Do not include parameter in the answer. </span>(N=
OTE 2)<span lang=3DEN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p></td></tr></table></div><p c=
lass=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"=
Courier New";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListPar=
agraph style=3D'text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l4 level1 lfo9'><![if !support=
Lists]><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;c=
olor:black'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>=F0<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "T=
imes New Roman"'>&nbsp; </span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3DEN-US s=
tyle=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>Instead of =
&#8220;</span><span lang=3DEN-US>Otherwise reject offer (NOTE 3).</span><sp=
an lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:b=
lack'>&#8221; we should rather specify <br>&#8220;Otherwise, offer SHOULD b=
e rejected (NOTE x)&#8221; and<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParag=
raph><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"=
;color:black'>NOTE x &#8211; This parameter is not recommended to use, but =
there might be remote T.38 endpoints with support of that capability. In or=
der to improve the probability of a final successful T.38 call, the remote =
T.38 endpoint should be indicated not to use this T.38 capability (see ANSW=
ER).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'=
font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;=
font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>A pure rejection of the OFFER would =
immediately lead to an unsuccessful T. 38 call.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Co=
urier New";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><s=
pan lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:=
black'>/Albrecht<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-=
US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:olive'><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4D=
F 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-=
US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span=
></b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","san=
s-serif"'> Belling, Thomas (NSN - DE/Munich) [mailto:thomas.belling@nsn.com=
] <br><b>Sent:</b> Freitag, 3. August 2012 10:46<br><b>To:</b> Schwarz, Alb=
recht (Albrecht); 3GPP_TSG_CT_WG3@LIST.ETSI.ORG<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: H.24=
8-controlled T.38 configurations: SDP- vs Property-based H.248 signalling<o=
:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><=
p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","=
sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Dear Albrecht,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DM=
soNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"=
;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=
=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color=
:#1F497D'>my proposal is still not include FAX &#8220;transcoding&#8221; in=
 the 3GPP profile. Is that acceptable to you?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=
=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Cali=
bri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMso=
Normal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","=
sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Thomas<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal=
><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-s=
erif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div style=3D'border:=
none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=3DM=
soNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahom=
a","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0=
pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> ext Schwarz, Albrecht (Albrecht) [ma=
ilto:albrecht.schwarz@alcatel-lucent.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, August 0=
3, 2012 10:25 AM<br><b>To:</b> Belling, Thomas (NSN - DE/Munich); 3GPP_TSG_=
CT_WG3@LIST.ETSI.ORG<br><b>Cc:</b> megaco@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: H=
.248-controlled T.38 configurations: SDP- vs Property-based H.248 signallin=
g<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fa=
mily:"Courier New";color:#003300'>Hello Thomas,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Co=
urier New";color:#003300'>looks like that we are now on the same page, i.e.=
 if the T.38 endpoint (here IM-MGW) would support that capability, then it =
could be also used in the negotiation of T.38 configurations with the remot=
e T.38 endpoint.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-=
US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#003300'>Hence=
, the T.38 parameters are not related to remote G3FEs.<o:p></o:p></span></p=
><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:"Courier New";color:#003300'>There would be then following changes in y=
our CRs, let&#8217;s take Table X.2.1 as example:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"=
Courier New";color:#003300'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNorma=
l><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";co=
lor:#003300'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DTH><span lang=3DEN-GB>T=
able <span style=3D'background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow'>X</span>.2.1: R=
ecommended configuration for T.38 SDP attribute values.<o:p></o:p></span></=
p><div align=3Dcenter><table class=3DMsoNormalTable border=3D0 cellspacing=
=3D0 cellpadding=3D0 width=3D638 style=3D'width:478.5pt;margin-left:-142.3p=
t;border-collapse:collapse'><tr><td width=3D285 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width=
:213.4pt;border-top:1.5pt;border-left:1.5pt;border-bottom:1.0pt;border-righ=
t:1.0pt;border-color:windowtext;border-style:solid;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.=
4pt'><p class=3DTAL><b><span lang=3DEN-GB>T38FaxVersion<o:p></o:p></span></=
b></p></td><td width=3D354 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:265.45pt;border-top:=
solid windowtext 1.5pt;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0p=
t;border-right:solid windowtext 1.5pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'><p class=
=3DTAL><span lang=3DEN-GB>Version 2 or higher. (NOTE 1)<o:p></o:p></span></=
p></td></tr><tr><td width=3D285 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:213.4pt;border-=
top:none;border-left:solid windowtext 1.5pt;border-bottom:solid windowtext =
1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'><p c=
lass=3DTAL><b><span lang=3DEN-GB>T38MaxBitRate<o:p></o:p></span></b></p></t=
d><td width=3D354 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:265.45pt;border-top:none;bord=
er-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid window=
text 1.5pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'><p class=3DTAL><span lang=3DEN-GB>1=
4 400<span style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></span></p></td></tr><tr=
><td width=3D285 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:213.4pt;border-top:none;border=
-left:solid windowtext 1.5pt;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-ri=
ght:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'><p class=3DTAL><b><=
span lang=3DEN-GB>T38FaxFillBitRemoval<o:p></o:p></span></b></p></td><td wi=
dth=3D354 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:265.45pt;border-top:none;border-left:=
none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.5=
pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'><p class=3DTAL><span lang=3DEN-GB>FALSE <s>=
(NOTE 2)</s><o:p></o:p></span></p></td></tr><tr><td width=3D285 valign=3Dto=
p style=3D'width:213.4pt;border-top:none;border-left:solid windowtext 1.5pt=
;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;p=
adding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'><p class=3DTAL><b><span lang=3DEN-GB>T38FaxTran=
scodingMMR<o:p></o:p></span></b></p></td><td width=3D354 valign=3Dtop style=
=3D'width:265.45pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid win=
dowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.5pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4=
pt'><p class=3DTAL><span lang=3DEN-GB>FALSE <s>(NOTE 2)</s><o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p></td></tr><tr><td width=3D285 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:213.4pt;bor=
der-top:none;border-left:solid windowtext 1.5pt;border-bottom:solid windowt=
ext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'>=
<p class=3DTAL><b><span lang=3DEN-GB>T38FaxTranscodingJBIG<o:p></o:p></span=
></b></p></td><td width=3D354 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:265.45pt;border-t=
op:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:=
solid windowtext 1.5pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'><p class=3DTAL><span la=
ng=3DEN-GB>FALSE <s>(NOTE 2)</s><o:p></o:p></span></p></td></tr><tr><td wid=
th=3D285 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:213.4pt;border-top:none;border-left:so=
lid windowtext 1.5pt;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:soli=
d windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'><p class=3DTAL><b><span lan=
g=3DEN-GB>T38FaxRateManagement<o:p></o:p></span></b></p></td><td width=3D35=
4 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:265.45pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;bor=
der-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.5pt;paddi=
ng:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'><p class=3DTAL><span lang=3DEN-GB>'transferredTCF'<=
o:p></o:p></span></p></td></tr><tr><td width=3D285 valign=3Dtop style=3D'wi=
dth:213.4pt;border-top:none;border-left:solid windowtext 1.5pt;border-botto=
m:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.=
4pt 0cm 5.4pt'><p class=3DTAL><b><span lang=3DEN-GB>T38FaxMaxBuffer<o:p></o=
:p></span></b></p></td><td width=3D354 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:265.45pt=
;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;bord=
er-right:solid windowtext 1.5pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'><p class=3DTAL=
><span lang=3DEN-GB>1800<span style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></spa=
n></p></td></tr><tr><td width=3D285 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:213.4pt;bor=
der-top:none;border-left:solid windowtext 1.5pt;border-bottom:solid windowt=
ext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'>=
<p class=3DTAL><b><span lang=3DEN-GB>T38FaxMaxDatagram<o:p></o:p></span></b=
></p></td><td width=3D354 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:265.45pt;border-top:n=
one;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:soli=
d windowtext 1.5pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'><p class=3DTAL><span lang=
=3DEN-GB>At least 150<o:p></o:p></span></p></td></tr><tr><td width=3D285 va=
lign=3Dtop style=3D'width:213.4pt;border-top:none;border-left:solid windowt=
ext 1.5pt;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtex=
t 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'><p class=3DTAL><b><span lang=3DEN-GB>T=
38FaxMaxIFP<o:p></o:p></span></b></p></td><td width=3D354 valign=3Dtop styl=
e=3D'width:265.45pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid wi=
ndowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.5pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.=
4pt'><p class=3DTAL><span lang=3DEN-GB>40 (NOTE 3)<o:p></o:p></span></p></t=
d></tr><tr><td width=3D285 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:213.4pt;border-top:n=
one;border-left:solid windowtext 1.5pt;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt=
;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'><p class=
=3DTAL><b><span lang=3DEN-GB>T38FaxUdpEC<o:p></o:p></span></b></p></td><td =
width=3D354 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:265.45pt;border-top:none;border-lef=
t:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1=
.5pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'><p class=3DTAL><span lang=3DEN-GB>'t38UDP=
Redundancy'<o:p></o:p></span></p></td></tr><tr><td width=3D285 valign=3Dtop=
 style=3D'width:213.4pt;border-top:none;border-left:solid windowtext 1.5pt;=
border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;pa=
dding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'><p class=3DTAL><b><span lang=3DEN-GB>T38FaxUdpEC=
Depth<o:p></o:p></span></b></p></td><td width=3D354 valign=3Dtop style=3D'w=
idth:265.45pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowte=
xt 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.5pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'><=
p class=3DTAL><span lang=3DEN-GB>Minred: 1; Maxred: 2 (NOTE 3)<o:p></o:p></=
span></p></td></tr><tr><td width=3D285 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:213.4pt;=
border-top:none;border-left:solid windowtext 1.5pt;border-bottom:solid wind=
owtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4p=
t'><p class=3DTAL><b><span lang=3DEN-GB>T38FaxUdpFECMaxSpan<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></b></p></td><td width=3D354 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:265.45pt;border-=
top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right=
:solid windowtext 1.5pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'><p class=3DTAL><span l=
ang=3DEN-GB>3 (NOTE 3)<o:p></o:p></span></p></td></tr><tr><td width=3D285 v=
align=3Dtop style=3D'width:213.4pt;border-top:none;border-left:solid window=
text 1.5pt;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.5pt;border-right:solid windowte=
xt 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'><p class=3DTAL><b><span lang=3DEN-GB>=
T38ModemType<o:p></o:p></span></b></p></td><td width=3D354 valign=3Dtop sty=
le=3D'width:265.45pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid w=
indowtext 1.5pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.5pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5=
.4pt'><p class=3DTAL><span lang=3DEN-GB>'t38G3FaxOnly' (<s>NOTE 2,</s> NOTE=
 3)<o:p></o:p></span></p></td></tr><tr><td width=3D638 colspan=3D2 valign=
=3Dtop style=3D'width:478.85pt;border:solid windowtext 1.5pt;border-top:non=
e;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'><p class=3DTAN><span lang=3DEN-GB>NOTE 1:&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp; With Version 4, default values for the SDP attributes apply=
 if the attributes are omitted. <s>However, some values relate to capabilit=
ies of the remote CS FAX equipment unknown to the MGCF.</s><o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p><p class=3DTAN><s><span lang=3DEN-GB>NOTE 2:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; This v=
alue relates to capabilities of the remote CS FAX equipment unknown to the =
MGCF. The recommended value (which is also the default value in T.38 versio=
n 4) is likely to be supported by FAX equipment in CS networks.<o:p></o:p><=
/span></s></p><p class=3DTAN><span lang=3DEN-GB>NOTE 3: &nbsp;&nbsp; Only a=
pplicable for T.38 version 4.<o:p></o:p></span></p></td></tr></table></div>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'><o:p>&nb=
sp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#003300'>Would you agree?<o:p></=
o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:1=
0.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#003300'>Albrecht<o:p></o:p></span></=
p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fa=
mily:"Courier New";color:#003300'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMs=
oNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier N=
ew";color:#003300'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div style=3D'border:no=
ne;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMso=
Normal><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma"=
,"sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt=
;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Belling, Thomas (NSN - DE/Munich) [<a =
href=3D"mailto:thomas.belling@nsn.com">mailto:thomas.belling@nsn.com</a>] <=
br><b>Sent:</b> Donnerstag, 2. August 2012 11:03<br><b>To:</b> Schwarz, Alb=
recht (Albrecht); <a href=3D"mailto:3GPP_TSG_CT_WG3@LIST.ETSI.ORG">3GPP_TSG=
_CT_WG3@LIST.ETSI.ORG</a><br><b>Subject:</b> RE: H.248-controlled T.38 conf=
igurations: SDP- vs Property-based H.248 signalling<o:p></o:p></span></p></=
div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><s=
pan lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-seri=
f";color:#1F497D'>Hello Albrecht,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal=
><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-s=
erif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span=
 lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";=
color:#1F497D'>a gateway could support FAX &#8220;transcoding&#8221;, as I =
like to call it, and then use those parameters. But as Kevin wrote, it is h=
ighly unusual for MGW implementations to do so. In my view we should not bu=
rden the MGW with such functionality and the benefit is also questionable, =
in particular because Kevin believes the JBIG and NMR encoding are also rar=
ely used by T.38 terminals. I was rather envisioning a reframing of T.30 at=
 the MGW. Reading your explanation that you support the default values I su=
spect this is also what your MGW does (as mine). Also in the table B.1 you =
attached those parameters are &#8220;optional&#8221;. So, depending on MGW =
implementation, those could either be capabilities of the CS FAX equipment =
(if a reframing is done at the MGW as I envision), or of the MGW (if the MG=
W performs FAX &#8220;transcoding&#8221;).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D=
MsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri=
","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNor=
mal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","san=
s-serif";color:#1F497D'>For the 3GPP profiles, we do not necesarrily includ=
e any conceivable option but only options with a real benefit. I would pref=
er not to include FAX &#8220;transcoding&#8221; for the reasons outlined ab=
ove. Assuming that we only want to use the default value, it does not need =
to be signalled to the MGW but can rather be a provisioned value. So I do n=
ot see a need to propagate those parameters over the Mn interface.<o:p></o:=
p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.=
0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></sp=
an></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;fo=
nt-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Perhaps the NOTES should be=
 phrased a bit clearer and include an explanation that only T.30 reframing =
is included in the Mn profile and under this condition, those SDP attribute=
s relate to capabilities of the CS FAX equipment.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"=
Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=
=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Cali=
bri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Thomas<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMso=
Normal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","=
sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal=
><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#=
1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'fon=
t-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></p><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.=
0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US s=
tyle=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b=
><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-se=
rif"'> 3GPP_TSG_CT_WG3 - Core Network and Terminals WG 3 [<a href=3D"mailto=
:3GPP_TSG_CT_WG3@LIST.ETSI.ORG">mailto:3GPP_TSG_CT_WG3@LIST.ETSI.ORG</a>] <=
b>On Behalf Of </b>ext Schwarz, Albrecht (Albrecht)<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursda=
y, August 02, 2012 10:05 AM<br><b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:3GPP_TSG_CT_WG3=
@LIST.ETSI.ORG">3GPP_TSG_CT_WG3@LIST.ETSI.ORG</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: H.=
248-controlled T.38 configurations: SDP- vs Property-based H.248 signalling=
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p=
><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:"Courier New";color:#993366'>Hello Thomas,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Cou=
rier New";color:#993366'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><=
span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color=
:#993366'>I followed the SIP Forum FoIP thread, but I fail to see that conf=
irmation towards remote G3FE.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><sp=
an lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#=
993366'>Actually it&#8217;s rather the opposite, see Kevin&#8217;s reply to=
 you:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D=
'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#993366'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p=
></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; (I did not find=
 any definition of MMR format apart from &#8220;Modified <o:p></o:p></span>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; Modified Read&#8221; in=
 T.38. However on Annex VI of T.30, MMR is defined as <o:p></o:p></span></p=
><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; the T.6 encoding. This als=
o matches explanations in Wikipedia)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; *T38FaxTranscodingJBIG*: Indicates the abili=
ty to convert to/from JBIG <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><s=
pan lang=3DEN-US>&gt; to reduce bandwidth. This<o:p></o:p></span></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; is a boolean parameter (inclusion=
 =3D true, exclusion =3D false).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainTe=
xt><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><=
span lang=3DEN-US>It is <span style=3D'color:red'>possible for a T.30&lt;-&=
gt;T.38 gateway</span> to <span style=3D'color:red'>provide these behaviors=
 if desired</span>, and the resulting T.38 bitstream would differ in some n=
oticeable ways from the T.30 bitstream. However, based on discussions with =
various knowledgeable parties during our previous work in this group, it ap=
pears that it is highly unusual for a T.38 implementation (gateway or termi=
nal) to actually perform any of these three functions.<o:p></o:p></span></p=
><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:"Courier New";color:#993366'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMso=
Normal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier Ne=
w";color:#993366'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph s=
tyle=3D'text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><=
span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#99=
3366'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>=F0<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times N=
ew Roman"'>&nbsp; </span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#993366'>it&#8217;s a =
gateway capability!<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph style=
=3D'text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span=
 lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#993366=
'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>=F0<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New R=
oman"'>&nbsp; </span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'fo=
nt-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#993366'>all your three refe=
rred T.38 parameters are subject of the IM-MGW implementation!<o:p></o:p></=
span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;=
font-family:"Courier New";color:#993366'>and ALU supports the recommended d=
efault values by Table H.2/T.38 (which should be inline with your proposal)=
.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'fon=
t-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#993366'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></s=
pan></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;f=
ont-family:"Courier New";color:#993366'>Hence, Kevin explicitly confirms th=
is also as gateway capability!<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><s=
pan lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:=
#993366'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-U=
S style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#993366'>Regard=
s,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'fo=
nt-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#993366'>Albrecht<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family=
:"Courier New";color:#993366'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNor=
mal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#993366=
'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size=
:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#993366'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></=
p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier=
 New";color:#993366'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div style=3D'border:=
none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=3DM=
soNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahom=
a","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0=
pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Belling, Thomas (NSN - DE/Munich) [<=
a href=3D"mailto:thomas.belling@nsn.com">mailto:thomas.belling@nsn.com</a>]=
 <br><b>Sent:</b> Mittwoch, 1. August 2012 16:46<br><b>To:</b> Schwarz, Alb=
recht (Albrecht); <a href=3D"mailto:3GPP_TSG_CT_WG3@LIST.ETSI.ORG">3GPP_TSG=
_CT_WG3@LIST.ETSI.ORG</a><br><b>Subject:</b> RE: H.248-controlled T.38 conf=
igurations: SDP- vs Property-based H.248 signalling<o:p></o:p></span></p></=
div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><s=
pan lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-seri=
f";color:#1F497D'>Dear Albrecht,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>=
<span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-se=
rif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";c=
olor:#1F497D'>Thanks for your comments.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMso=
Normal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","=
sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal=
><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-s=
erif";color:#1F497D'>with respect to T38FaxFillBitRemoval, T38FaxTranscodin=
gMMR and T38FaxTranscodingJBIG SDP attributes, to which Notes 1 and 2 relat=
e, &nbsp;I had some discussions at the SIP forum FoIP mailing list as you s=
uggested.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US styl=
e=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'f=
ont-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>And it wa=
s confirmed that unless you do some &#8220;transcoding&#8221; of the payloa=
d within T.38 at the MGW, those properties relate to the remote CS FAX endp=
oint. However, people thought that not signaling those properties in H.248v=
4 might be OK, because the default values which then apply are likely to be=
 supported by any receiving CS endpoint. The only open issue where I did no=
t yet receive any reply is whether any harm is done if the CS endpoint beha=
ves differently when sending.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><sp=
an lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif=
";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lan=
g=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";colo=
r:#1F497D'>Thomas<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN=
-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F4=
97D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US st=
yle=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><=
o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D=
'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4D=
F 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-=
US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span=
></b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","san=
s-serif"'> 3GPP_TSG_CT_WG3 - Core Network and Terminals WG 3 [<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:3GPP_TSG_CT_WG3@LIST.ETSI.ORG">mailto:3GPP_TSG_CT_WG3@LIST.ETSI.ORG</a=
>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>ext Schwarz, Albrecht (Albrecht)<br><b>Sent:</b> Wed=
nesday, August 01, 2012 4:17 PM<br><b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:3GPP_TSG_CT=
_WG3@LIST.ETSI.ORG">3GPP_TSG_CT_WG3@LIST.ETSI.ORG</a><br><b>Subject:</b> H.=
248-controlled T.38 configurations: SDP- vs Property-based H.248 signalling=
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p=
><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Cou=
rier New";color:#002060'>[Cc&#8217;d megaco list due to H.248.2]</span><spa=
n style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p></o:p></span></=
p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Courier New";color:#002060'>&nbsp;</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0p=
t;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMs=
oNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#00=
2060'>The <b>T.38 parameters</b> as defined by ITU-T T.38 are related to a =
<b>T.38 endpoint implementation</b>, such as the <b>T.38 user plane interwo=
rking function</b> as e.g. located in an H.248 IP-to-TDM media gateway (e.g=
. 3GPP IM-MGW).</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'=
font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#002060'>&nbsp;</span><spa=
n style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p></o:p></span></=
p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Courier New";color:#002060'>There are fundamentally two signaling optio=
ns for such T.38 configurations:</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font=
-family:"Courier New"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><ol start=3D1 type=3Da><=
li class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'color:#002060;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-mar=
gin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo5'><b><span style=3D'font-size:10=
.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>SDP-based</span></b><span style=3D'font-siz=
e:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>: using <b>T.38 Annex D</b> defined SDP=
 elements embedded in H.248 descriptors<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=3DM=
soNormal style=3D'color:#002060;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo5'><b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fa=
mily:"Courier New"'>Property-based</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0p=
t;font-family:"Courier New"'>: using <b>H.248.2, IP Fax package</b> defined=
 properties, such as specified by clauses 10.1.3 to 10.1.7<o:p></o:p></span=
></li></ol><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-f=
amily:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#002060'>&nbsp;</span><span style=3D'fon=
t-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><=
p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier Ne=
w";color:#002060'>Both H.248 signalling options are basically equivalent, -=
 independent of SDP- or Property-based signaling elements. The signaling el=
ements relate to the T.38 endpoint, but NOT to any remote G3FE.</span><span=
 style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p></o:p></span></p=
></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-famil=
y:"Courier New";color:#002060'>[Note: the H.248 IP fax package version 1 (f=
rom 2005/2007) does not yet contain the latest T.38V4 (2010) parameter. But=
 this aspect is irrelevant in this discussion due to the proposal in 3GPP f=
or the SDP-based method.]</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family=
:"Courier New"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span=
 style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#002060=
'>&nbsp;</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><=
o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-si=
ze:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#002060'>Thus,</span><span style=
=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div=
><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Cou=
rier New";color:#002060'>all &#8220;T.38 SDP attributes&#8221; (in C3-12132=
7) are related to gateway capabilities (such as supported T.38 configuratio=
ns by an IM-MGW implementation) (NOTE: attached is T.38 Table B.1 for H.323=
 gateways, which again underlines the relation to gateway capabilities).</s=
pan><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p></o:p><=
/span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;f=
ont-family:"Courier New";color:#002060'>The MGC / MGCF may be either</span>=
<span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p></div><ol start=3D1 type=3Da><li class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'color:#00=
2060;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 =
lfo8'><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>aware of t=
he supported T.38 configuration(s) by his associated MGs or<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></li><li class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'color:#002060;mso-margin-top-alt:auto=
;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo8'><span style=3D'font-si=
ze:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>unaware.<o:p></o:p></span></li></ol><d=
iv><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courie=
r New";color:#002060'>Awareness may be achieved via auditing or configurati=
on management.</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier N=
ew"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'f=
ont-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#002060'>Unawareness is bas=
ically possible, but may lead to inefficient or even ineffective H.248 scen=
arios for T.38.</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'=
font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#002060'>Dependent on the =
amount of &#8220;supported T.38 configuration(s)&#8221; knowledge at MGC le=
vel would be the content of the SIP-level SDP O/A procedures.</span><span s=
tyle=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p></o:p></span></p><=
/div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=
"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#002060'>&nbsp;</span><span style=3D'font-size=
:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p clas=
s=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";col=
or:#002060'>Conclusions for <b>C3-121327</b> (<a href=3D"http://www.3gpp.or=
g/ftp/tsg_ct/WG3_interworking_ex-CN3/TSGC3_70_Chicago/Docs/C3-121327.zip">h=
ttp://www.3gpp.org/ftp/tsg_ct/WG3_interworking_ex-CN3/TSGC3_70_Chicago/Docs=
/C3-121327.zip</a>):</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Cou=
rier New"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span styl=
e=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#002060'>NOTEs 1 and =
2 in Table X.3.1 are incorrect in my opinion.</span><span style=3D'font-siz=
e:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p cla=
ss=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";co=
lor:#002060'>The <b>text</b> related to &#8220;remote CS FAX equipment&#822=
1; (term should be anyway replaced by term G3FE) should be just <b>deleted<=
/b>. And there would be correspondent changes at other tables.</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>=
</div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family=
:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#002060'>&nbsp;</span><span style=3D'font-siz=
e:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p cla=
ss=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";co=
lor:#002060'>-Albrecht</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"C=
ourier New"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span st=
yle=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#002060'>&=
nbsp;</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p=
></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#C00000'>&nbsp;</span><span=
 style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p></o:p></span></p=
></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-famil=
y:"Courier New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNorma=
l><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&nbsp=
;</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p></o=
:p></span></p></div></div></body></html>=

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From: "Schwarz, Albrecht (Albrecht)" <albrecht.schwarz@alcatel-lucent.com>
To: "Belling, Thomas (NSN - DE/Munich)" <thomas.belling@nsn.com>, "3GPP_TSG_CT_WG3@LIST.ETSI.ORG" <3GPP_TSG_CT_WG3@LIST.ETSI.ORG>
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2012 16:44:24 +0200
Thread-Topic: H.248-controlled T.38 configurations: SDP- vs Property-based H.248 signalling
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Subject: Re: [Megaco] H.248-controlled T.38 configurations: SDP- vs Property-based H.248 signalling
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Thomas, hm ...

1st We do not need any new terminology in 3GPP, thus "CS FAX equipment" mus=
t be replaced with term "G3FE" (T.38, cl. 3.3).

2nd There is no need to consider remote G3FE capabilities in detail (concer=
ning your referred parameters), however, with the exception of V.34-capable=
 G3FE or non-V.34-capable G3FE.

Thus:
3rd We may only talk about "T.38 endpoints", - and there are two types "T.3=
8/G3" and "T.38/V.34G3", see T.38, cl. 3.4 and 3.5.

=3D>
In the 3GPP Mn H.248 profile, it is recommended not to use this T.38 endpoi=
nt capability. When sent by the MGCF, this value would relate to a T.38 end=
point with support of that capability. The recommended value (which is also=
 the default value in T.38 version 4) is likely to be supported by existing=
 T.38 endpoint implementations.


/Albrecht

From: Belling, Thomas (NSN - DE/Munich) [mailto:thomas.belling@nsn.com]
Sent: Freitag, 3. August 2012 15:19
To: Schwarz, Albrecht (Albrecht); 3GPP_TSG_CT_WG3@LIST.ETSI.ORG
Subject: RE: H.248-controlled T.38 configurations: SDP- vs Property-based H=
.248 signalling

Thanks Albrecht,

I can accept your last proposal.

For your previous suggested change, given that the 3GPP Profile will not su=
pport FAX transcoding (it seems you agree) perhaps we should not entirely r=
emove those notes from table x.2.1. I can accept your change to Note 1. For=
 Note 2, we could write:

In the 3GPP Mn H.248 profile, the T.30 protocol layer embedded within T.38 =
is not modified. When sent by the MGCF, this value thus relates to capabili=
ties of the remote CS FAX equipment unknown to the MGCF. The recommended va=
lue (which is also the default value in T.38 version 4) is likely to be sup=
ported by FAX equipment in CS networks.

Thomas



From: 3GPP_TSG_CT_WG3 - Core Network and Terminals WG 3 [mailto:3GPP_TSG_CT=
_WG3@LIST.ETSI.ORG] On Behalf Of ext Schwarz, Albrecht (Albrecht)
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2012 11:10 AM
To: 3GPP_TSG_CT_WG3@LIST.ETSI.ORG
Subject: Re: H.248-controlled T.38 configurations: SDP- vs Property-based H=
.248 signalling

With below indicated changes, we recommended the default settings for those=
 T.38 parameters, which is FALSE (i.e., 3GPP profiles would then recommend =
NOT to use such T.38 configurations).

Clause X.2 provides a RECOMMENDATION on T.38 configuration(s).
Clause X.3 the correspondent negotiation procedures.

I think that the prescriptive language between both clauses must be consist=
ent (which isn't yet entirely the case in my opinion).

E.g., Table X.3.1:

T38FaxTranscodingJBIG


Accept offer with value "FALSE" or parameter omitted. Otherwise reject offe=
r (NOTE 3).


Do not include parameter in the answer. (NOTE 2)



=F0  Instead of "Otherwise reject offer (NOTE 3)." we should rather specify
"Otherwise, offer SHOULD be rejected (NOTE x)" and

NOTE x - This parameter is not recommended to use, but there might be remot=
e T.38 endpoints with support of that capability. In order to improve the p=
robability of a final successful T.38 call, the remote T.38 endpoint should=
 be indicated not to use this T.38 capability (see ANSWER).

A pure rejection of the OFFER would immediately lead to an unsuccessful T. =
38 call.

/Albrecht

From: Belling, Thomas (NSN - DE/Munich) [mailto:thomas.belling@nsn.com]
Sent: Freitag, 3. August 2012 10:46
To: Schwarz, Albrecht (Albrecht); 3GPP_TSG_CT_WG3@LIST.ETSI.ORG<mailto:3GPP=
_TSG_CT_WG3@LIST.ETSI.ORG>
Subject: RE: H.248-controlled T.38 configurations: SDP- vs Property-based H=
.248 signalling

Dear Albrecht,

my proposal is still not include FAX "transcoding" in the 3GPP profile. Is =
that acceptable to you?

Thomas

From: ext Schwarz, Albrecht (Albrecht) [mailto:albrecht.schwarz@alcatel-luc=
ent.com]
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2012 10:25 AM
To: Belling, Thomas (NSN - DE/Munich); 3GPP_TSG_CT_WG3@LIST.ETSI.ORG<mailto=
:3GPP_TSG_CT_WG3@LIST.ETSI.ORG>
Cc: megaco@ietf.org<mailto:megaco@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: H.248-controlled T.38 configurations: SDP- vs Property-based H=
.248 signalling

Hello Thomas,
looks like that we are now on the same page, i.e. if the T.38 endpoint (her=
e IM-MGW) would support that capability, then it could be also used in the =
negotiation of T.38 configurations with the remote T.38 endpoint.
Hence, the T.38 parameters are not related to remote G3FEs.
There would be then following changes in your CRs, let's take Table X.2.1 a=
s example:



Table X.2.1: Recommended configuration for T.38 SDP attribute values.

T38FaxVersion


Version 2 or higher. (NOTE 1)


T38MaxBitRate


14 400


T38FaxFillBitRemoval


FALSE (NOTE 2)


T38FaxTranscodingMMR


FALSE (NOTE 2)


T38FaxTranscodingJBIG


FALSE (NOTE 2)


T38FaxRateManagement


'transferredTCF'


T38FaxMaxBuffer


1800


T38FaxMaxDatagram


At least 150


T38FaxMaxIFP


40 (NOTE 3)


T38FaxUdpEC


't38UDPRedundancy'


T38FaxUdpECDepth


Minred: 1; Maxred: 2 (NOTE 3)


T38FaxUdpFECMaxSpan


3 (NOTE 3)


T38ModemType


't38G3FaxOnly' (NOTE 2, NOTE 3)


NOTE 1:    With Version 4, default values for the SDP attributes apply if t=
he attributes are omitted. However, some values relate to capabilities of t=
he remote CS FAX equipment unknown to the MGCF.

NOTE 2:    This value relates to capabilities of the remote CS FAX equipmen=
t unknown to the MGCF. The recommended value (which is also the default val=
ue in T.38 version 4) is likely to be supported by FAX equipment in CS netw=
orks.

NOTE 3:    Only applicable for T.38 version 4.


Would you agree?
Albrecht


From: Belling, Thomas (NSN - DE/Munich) [mailto:thomas.belling@nsn.com]
Sent: Donnerstag, 2. August 2012 11:03
To: Schwarz, Albrecht (Albrecht); 3GPP_TSG_CT_WG3@LIST.ETSI.ORG<mailto:3GPP=
_TSG_CT_WG3@LIST.ETSI.ORG>
Subject: RE: H.248-controlled T.38 configurations: SDP- vs Property-based H=
.248 signalling

Hello Albrecht,

a gateway could support FAX "transcoding", as I like to call it, and then u=
se those parameters. But as Kevin wrote, it is highly unusual for MGW imple=
mentations to do so. In my view we should not burden the MGW with such func=
tionality and the benefit is also questionable, in particular because Kevin=
 believes the JBIG and NMR encoding are also rarely used by T.38 terminals.=
 I was rather envisioning a reframing of T.30 at the MGW. Reading your expl=
anation that you support the default values I suspect this is also what you=
r MGW does (as mine). Also in the table B.1 you attached those parameters a=
re "optional". So, depending on MGW implementation, those could either be c=
apabilities of the CS FAX equipment (if a reframing is done at the MGW as I=
 envision), or of the MGW (if the MGW performs FAX "transcoding").

For the 3GPP profiles, we do not necesarrily include any conceivable option=
 but only options with a real benefit. I would prefer not to include FAX "t=
ranscoding" for the reasons outlined above. Assuming that we only want to u=
se the default value, it does not need to be signalled to the MGW but can r=
ather be a provisioned value. So I do not see a need to propagate those par=
ameters over the Mn interface.

Perhaps the NOTES should be phrased a bit clearer and include an explanatio=
n that only T.30 reframing is included in the Mn profile and under this con=
dition, those SDP attributes relate to capabilities of the CS FAX equipment=
.

Thomas



From: 3GPP_TSG_CT_WG3 - Core Network and Terminals WG 3 [mailto:3GPP_TSG_CT=
_WG3@LIST.ETSI.ORG] On Behalf Of ext Schwarz, Albrecht (Albrecht)
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2012 10:05 AM
To: 3GPP_TSG_CT_WG3@LIST.ETSI.ORG<mailto:3GPP_TSG_CT_WG3@LIST.ETSI.ORG>
Subject: Re: H.248-controlled T.38 configurations: SDP- vs Property-based H=
.248 signalling

Hello Thomas,

I followed the SIP Forum FoIP thread, but I fail to see that confirmation t=
owards remote G3FE.
Actually it's rather the opposite, see Kevin's reply to you:


> (I did not find any definition of MMR format apart from "Modified

> Modified Read" in T.38. However on Annex VI of T.30, MMR is defined as

> the T.6 encoding. This also matches explanations in Wikipedia)

>

> *T38FaxTranscodingJBIG*: Indicates the ability to convert to/from JBIG

> to reduce bandwidth. This

>

> is a boolean parameter (inclusion =3D true, exclusion =3D false).



It is possible for a T.30<->T.38 gateway to provide these behaviors if desi=
red, and the resulting T.38 bitstream would differ in some noticeable ways =
from the T.30 bitstream. However, based on discussions with various knowled=
geable parties during our previous work in this group, it appears that it i=
s highly unusual for a T.38 implementation (gateway or terminal) to actuall=
y perform any of these three functions.



=F0  it's a gateway capability!

=F0  all your three referred T.38 parameters are subject of the IM-MGW impl=
ementation!
and ALU supports the recommended default values by Table H.2/T.38 (which sh=
ould be inline with your proposal).

Hence, Kevin explicitly confirms this also as gateway capability!

Regards,
Albrecht




From: Belling, Thomas (NSN - DE/Munich) [mailto:thomas.belling@nsn.com]
Sent: Mittwoch, 1. August 2012 16:46
To: Schwarz, Albrecht (Albrecht); 3GPP_TSG_CT_WG3@LIST.ETSI.ORG<mailto:3GPP=
_TSG_CT_WG3@LIST.ETSI.ORG>
Subject: RE: H.248-controlled T.38 configurations: SDP- vs Property-based H=
.248 signalling

Dear Albrecht,

Thanks for your comments.

with respect to T38FaxFillBitRemoval, T38FaxTranscodingMMR and T38FaxTransc=
odingJBIG SDP attributes, to which Notes 1 and 2 relate,  I had some discus=
sions at the SIP forum FoIP mailing list as you suggested.

And it was confirmed that unless you do some "transcoding" of the payload w=
ithin T.38 at the MGW, those properties relate to the remote CS FAX endpoin=
t. However, people thought that not signaling those properties in H.248v4 m=
ight be OK, because the default values which then apply are likely to be su=
pported by any receiving CS endpoint. The only open issue where I did not y=
et receive any reply is whether any harm is done if the CS endpoint behaves=
 differently when sending.

Thomas



From: 3GPP_TSG_CT_WG3 - Core Network and Terminals WG 3 [mailto:3GPP_TSG_CT=
_WG3@LIST.ETSI.ORG] On Behalf Of ext Schwarz, Albrecht (Albrecht)
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2012 4:17 PM
To: 3GPP_TSG_CT_WG3@LIST.ETSI.ORG<mailto:3GPP_TSG_CT_WG3@LIST.ETSI.ORG>
Subject: H.248-controlled T.38 configurations: SDP- vs Property-based H.248=
 signalling

[Cc'd megaco list due to H.248.2]

The T.38 parameters as defined by ITU-T T.38 are related to a T.38 endpoint=
 implementation, such as the T.38 user plane interworking function as e.g. =
located in an H.248 IP-to-TDM media gateway (e.g. 3GPP IM-MGW).

There are fundamentally two signaling options for such T.38 configurations:

 1.  SDP-based: using T.38 Annex D defined SDP elements embedded in H.248 d=
escriptors
 2.  Property-based: using H.248.2, IP Fax package defined properties, such=
 as specified by clauses 10.1.3 to 10.1.7

Both H.248 signalling options are basically equivalent, - independent of SD=
P- or Property-based signaling elements. The signaling elements relate to t=
he T.38 endpoint, but NOT to any remote G3FE.
[Note: the H.248 IP fax package version 1 (from 2005/2007) does not yet con=
tain the latest T.38V4 (2010) parameter. But this aspect is irrelevant in t=
his discussion due to the proposal in 3GPP for the SDP-based method.]

Thus,
all "T.38 SDP attributes" (in C3-121327) are related to gateway capabilitie=
s (such as supported T.38 configurations by an IM-MGW implementation) (NOTE=
: attached is T.38 Table B.1 for H.323 gateways, which again underlines the=
 relation to gateway capabilities).
The MGC / MGCF may be either

 1.  aware of the supported T.38 configuration(s) by his associated MGs or
 2.  unaware.
Awareness may be achieved via auditing or configuration management.
Unawareness is basically possible, but may lead to inefficient or even inef=
fective H.248 scenarios for T.38.
Dependent on the amount of "supported T.38 configuration(s)" knowledge at M=
GC level would be the content of the SIP-level SDP O/A procedures.

Conclusions for C3-121327 (http://www.3gpp.org/ftp/tsg_ct/WG3_interworking_=
ex-CN3/TSGC3_70_Chicago/Docs/C3-121327.zip):
NOTEs 1 and 2 in Table X.3.1 are incorrect in my opinion.
The text related to "remote CS FAX equipment" (term should be anyway replac=
ed by term G3FE) should be just deleted. And there would be correspondent c=
hanges at other tables.

-Albrecht





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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DDE link=3Dblue vlink=
=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'fon=
t-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#C00000'>Thomas, hm &#8230;<o=
:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;fo=
nt-family:"Courier New";color:#C00000'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=
=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Cour=
ier New";color:#C00000'>1<sup>st</sup> We do not need any new terminology i=
n 3GPP, thus &#8220;CS FAX equipment&#8221; must be replaced with term &#82=
20;G3FE&#8221; (T.38, cl. 3.3).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><=
span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color=
:#C00000'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-=
US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#C00000'>2<sup=
>nd</sup> There is no need to consider remote G3FE capabilities in detail (=
concerning your referred parameters), however, with the exception of V.34-c=
apable G3FE or non-V.34-capable G3FE.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNo=
rmal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"=
;color:#C00000'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=
=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#C00000'=
>Thus:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#C00000'>3<sup>rd</sup=
> We may only talk about &#8220;T.38 endpoints&#8221;, - and there are two =
types &#8220;T.38/G3&#8221; and &#8220;T.38/V.34G3&#8221;, see T.38, cl. 3.=
4 and 3.5.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US sty=
le=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#C00000'><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size=
:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#C00000'>=3D&gt;<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>In the 3GPP Mn H.248 profile, it is recommend=
ed not to use this T.38 endpoint capability. When sent by the MGCF, this va=
lue would relate to a T.38 endpoint with support of that capability. The re=
commended value (which is also the default value in T.38 version 4) is like=
ly to be supported by existing T.38 endpoint implementations.<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;f=
ont-family:"Courier New";color:#C00000'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Cou=
rier New";color:#C00000'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><=
span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color=
:#C00000'>/Albrecht<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3D=
EN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#C00000'><o=
:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #=
B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=
=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:=
</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma=
","sans-serif"'> Belling, Thomas (NSN - DE/Munich) [mailto:thomas.belling@n=
sn.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Freitag, 3. August 2012 15:19<br><b>To:</b> Schwar=
z, Albrecht (Albrecht); 3GPP_TSG_CT_WG3@LIST.ETSI.ORG<br><b>Subject:</b> RE=
: H.248-controlled T.38 configurations: SDP- vs Property-based H.248 signal=
ling<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font=
-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Thanks Albrecht,<o:p></o:p></=
span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I can accept your last proposal=
.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'fon=
t-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size=
:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>For your previous=
 suggested change, given that the 3GPP Profile will not support FAX transco=
ding (it seems you agree) perhaps we should not entirely remove those notes=
 from table x.2.1. I can accept your change to Note 1. For Note 2, we could=
 write:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p=
>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'fo=
nt-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>In the 3GPP Mn H.248 pro=
file, the T.30 protocol layer embedded within T.38 is not modified. When se=
nt by the MGCF, this value thus relates to capabilities of the remote CS FA=
X equipment unknown to the MGCF. The recommended value (which is also the d=
efault value in T.38 version 4) is likely to be supported by FAX equipment =
in CS networks.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-U=
S style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size=
:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#0070C0'>Thomas<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0p=
t;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=
=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Cali=
bri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMso=
Normal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","=
sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div style=3D'b=
order:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p cla=
ss=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=
"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-siz=
e:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> 3GPP_TSG_CT_WG3 - Core Network=
 and Terminals WG 3 [mailto:3GPP_TSG_CT_WG3@LIST.ETSI.ORG] <b>On Behalf Of =
</b>ext Schwarz, Albrecht (Albrecht)<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, August 03, 201=
2 11:10 AM<br><b>To:</b> 3GPP_TSG_CT_WG3@LIST.ETSI.ORG<br><b>Subject:</b> R=
e: H.248-controlled T.38 configurations: SDP- vs Property-based H.248 signa=
lling<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;fon=
t-family:"Courier New";color:black'>With below indicated changes, we recomm=
ended the default settings for those T.38 parameters, which is FALSE (i.e.,=
 3GPP profiles would then <b>recommend</b> NOT to use such T.38 configurati=
ons).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D=
'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p><=
/span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt=
;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>Clause X.2 provides a RECOMMENDATIO=
N on T.38 configuration(s).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span=
 lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:bla=
ck'>Clause X.3 the correspondent negotiation procedures.<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-f=
amily:"Courier New";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMso=
Normal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier Ne=
w";color:black'>I think that the prescriptive language between both clauses=
 must be consistent (which isn&#8217;t yet entirely the case in my opinion)=
.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'fon=
t-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;fon=
t-family:"Courier New";color:black'>E.g., Table X.3.1:<o:p></o:p></span></p=
><div align=3Dcenter><table class=3DMsoNormalTable border=3D0 cellspacing=
=3D0 cellpadding=3D0 width=3D643 style=3D'width:482.25pt;margin-left:-9.0cm=
;border-collapse:collapse'><tr><td width=3D170 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:=
127.65pt;border:solid windowtext 1.5pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;=
padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'><p class=3DTAL><b>T38FaxTranscodingJBIG</b><b>=
<span lang=3DEN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></b></p></td><td width=3D246 valign=3D=
top style=3D'width:184.3pt;border-top:solid windowtext 1.5pt;border-left:no=
ne;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.5pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt=
;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'><p class=3DTAL><span lang=3DEN-US>Accept offe=
r with value &quot;FALSE&quot; or parameter omitted. </span>Otherwise rejec=
t offer (NOTE 3). <span lang=3DEN-GB><o:p></o:p></span></p></td><td width=
=3D227 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:6.0cm;border:solid windowtext 1.5pt;bord=
er-left:none;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'><p class=3DTAL><span lang=3DEN-US=
>Do not include parameter in the answer. </span>(NOTE 2)<span lang=3DEN-GB>=
<o:p></o:p></span></p></td></tr></table></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span la=
ng=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'=
><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'text-inde=
nt:-18.0pt;mso-list:l4 level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span lang=3DEN-US=
 style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:black'><span style=
=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>=F0<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>&nbsp;=
 </span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0p=
t;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>Instead of &#8220;</span><span lan=
g=3DEN-US>Otherwise reject offer (NOTE 3).</span><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>&#8221; we shou=
ld rather specify <br>&#8220;Otherwise, offer SHOULD be rejected (NOTE x)&#=
8221; and<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph><span lang=3DEN-=
US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>NOTE x =
&#8211; This parameter is not recommended to use, but there might be remote=
 T.38 endpoints with support of that capability. In order to improve the pr=
obability of a final successful T.38 call, the remote T.38 endpoint should =
be indicated not to use this T.38 capability (see ANSWER).<o:p></o:p></span=
></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font=
-family:"Courier New";color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DM=
soNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>A pure rejection of the OFFER would immediately lead to a=
n unsuccessful T. 38 call.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:blac=
k'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US styl=
e=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>/Albrecht<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size=
:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:olive'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>=
<div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt=
 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size=
:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-=
US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Belling, T=
homas (NSN - DE/Munich) [<a href=3D"mailto:thomas.belling@nsn.com">mailto:t=
homas.belling@nsn.com</a>] <br><b>Sent:</b> Freitag, 3. August 2012 10:46<b=
r><b>To:</b> Schwarz, Albrecht (Albrecht); <a href=3D"mailto:3GPP_TSG_CT_WG=
3@LIST.ETSI.ORG">3GPP_TSG_CT_WG3@LIST.ETSI.ORG</a><br><b>Subject:</b> RE: H=
.248-controlled T.38 configurations: SDP- vs Property-based H.248 signallin=
g<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri=
","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Dear Albrecht,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=
=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-se=
rif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";c=
olor:#1F497D'>my proposal is still not include FAX &#8220;transcoding&#8221=
; in the 3GPP profile. Is that acceptable to you?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"=
Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=
=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Cali=
bri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Thomas<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMso=
Normal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","=
sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div style=3D'b=
order:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p cla=
ss=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=
"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-siz=
e:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> ext Schwarz, Albrecht (Albrech=
t) [<a href=3D"mailto:albrecht.schwarz@alcatel-lucent.com">mailto:albrecht.=
schwarz@alcatel-lucent.com</a>] <br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, August 03, 2012 10=
:25 AM<br><b>To:</b> Belling, Thomas (NSN - DE/Munich); <a href=3D"mailto:3=
GPP_TSG_CT_WG3@LIST.ETSI.ORG">3GPP_TSG_CT_WG3@LIST.ETSI.ORG</a><br><b>Cc:</=
b> <a href=3D"mailto:megaco@ietf.org">megaco@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b=
> RE: H.248-controlled T.38 configurations: SDP- vs Property-based H.248 si=
gnalling<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;=
font-family:"Courier New";color:#003300'>Hello Thomas,<o:p></o:p></span></p=
><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:"Courier New";color:#003300'>looks like that we are now on the same pag=
e, i.e. if the T.38 endpoint (here IM-MGW) would support that capability, t=
hen it could be also used in the negotiation of T.38 configurations with th=
e remote T.38 endpoint.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lan=
g=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#003300=
'>Hence, the T.38 parameters are not related to remote G3FEs.<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;f=
ont-family:"Courier New";color:#003300'>There would be then following chang=
es in your CRs, let&#8217;s take Table X.2.1 as example:<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-f=
amily:"Courier New";color:#003300'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DM=
soNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#003300'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DTH><span lang=3D=
EN-GB>Table <span style=3D'background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow'>X</span>=
.2.1: Recommended configuration for T.38 SDP attribute values.<o:p></o:p></=
span></p><div align=3Dcenter><table class=3DMsoNormalTable border=3D0 cells=
pacing=3D0 cellpadding=3D0 width=3D638 style=3D'width:478.5pt;margin-left:-=
142.3pt;border-collapse:collapse'><tr><td width=3D285 valign=3Dtop style=3D=
'width:213.4pt;border-top:1.5pt;border-left:1.5pt;border-bottom:1.0pt;borde=
r-right:1.0pt;border-color:windowtext;border-style:solid;padding:0cm 5.4pt =
0cm 5.4pt'><p class=3DTAL><b><span lang=3DEN-GB>T38FaxVersion<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></b></p></td><td width=3D354 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:265.45pt;borde=
r-top:solid windowtext 1.5pt;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtex=
t 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.5pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'><p=
 class=3DTAL><span lang=3DEN-GB>Version 2 or higher. (NOTE 1)<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></td></tr><tr><td width=3D285 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:213.4pt;b=
order-top:none;border-left:solid windowtext 1.5pt;border-bottom:solid windo=
wtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt=
'><p class=3DTAL><b><span lang=3DEN-GB>T38MaxBitRate<o:p></o:p></span></b><=
/p></td><td width=3D354 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:265.45pt;border-top:non=
e;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid =
windowtext 1.5pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'><p class=3DTAL><span lang=3DE=
N-GB>14 400<span style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></span></p></td></=
tr><tr><td width=3D285 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:213.4pt;border-top:none;=
border-left:solid windowtext 1.5pt;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;bor=
der-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'><p class=3DTA=
L><b><span lang=3DEN-GB>T38FaxFillBitRemoval<o:p></o:p></span></b></p></td>=
<td width=3D354 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:265.45pt;border-top:none;border=
-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowte=
xt 1.5pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'><p class=3DTAL><span lang=3DEN-GB>FAL=
SE <s>(NOTE 2)</s><o:p></o:p></span></p></td></tr><tr><td width=3D285 valig=
n=3Dtop style=3D'width:213.4pt;border-top:none;border-left:solid windowtext=
 1.5pt;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1=
.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'><p class=3DTAL><b><span lang=3DEN-GB>T38F=
axTranscodingMMR<o:p></o:p></span></b></p></td><td width=3D354 valign=3Dtop=
 style=3D'width:265.45pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:sol=
id windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.5pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0=
cm 5.4pt'><p class=3DTAL><span lang=3DEN-GB>FALSE <s>(NOTE 2)</s><o:p></o:p=
></span></p></td></tr><tr><td width=3D285 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:213.4=
pt;border-top:none;border-left:solid windowtext 1.5pt;border-bottom:solid w=
indowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5=
.4pt'><p class=3DTAL><b><span lang=3DEN-GB>T38FaxTranscodingJBIG<o:p></o:p>=
</span></b></p></td><td width=3D354 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:265.45pt;bo=
rder-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-=
right:solid windowtext 1.5pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'><p class=3DTAL><s=
pan lang=3DEN-GB>FALSE <s>(NOTE 2)</s><o:p></o:p></span></p></td></tr><tr><=
td width=3D285 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:213.4pt;border-top:none;border-l=
eft:solid windowtext 1.5pt;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-righ=
t:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'><p class=3DTAL><b><sp=
an lang=3DEN-GB>T38FaxRateManagement<o:p></o:p></span></b></p></td><td widt=
h=3D354 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:265.45pt;border-top:none;border-left:no=
ne;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.5pt=
;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'><p class=3DTAL><span lang=3DEN-GB>'transferre=
dTCF'<o:p></o:p></span></p></td></tr><tr><td width=3D285 valign=3Dtop style=
=3D'width:213.4pt;border-top:none;border-left:solid windowtext 1.5pt;border=
-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:=
0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'><p class=3DTAL><b><span lang=3DEN-GB>T38FaxMaxBuffer<o=
:p></o:p></span></b></p></td><td width=3D354 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:26=
5.45pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0p=
t;border-right:solid windowtext 1.5pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'><p class=
=3DTAL><span lang=3DEN-GB>1800<span style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span=
></span></p></td></tr><tr><td width=3D285 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:213.4=
pt;border-top:none;border-left:solid windowtext 1.5pt;border-bottom:solid w=
indowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5=
.4pt'><p class=3DTAL><b><span lang=3DEN-GB>T38FaxMaxDatagram<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></b></p></td><td width=3D354 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:265.45pt;border=
-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-righ=
t:solid windowtext 1.5pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'><p class=3DTAL><span =
lang=3DEN-GB>At least 150<o:p></o:p></span></p></td></tr><tr><td width=3D28=
5 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:213.4pt;border-top:none;border-left:solid win=
dowtext 1.5pt;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windo=
wtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'><p class=3DTAL><b><span lang=3DEN-=
GB>T38FaxMaxIFP<o:p></o:p></span></b></p></td><td width=3D354 valign=3Dtop =
style=3D'width:265.45pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:soli=
d windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.5pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0c=
m 5.4pt'><p class=3DTAL><span lang=3DEN-GB>40 (NOTE 3)<o:p></o:p></span></p=
></td></tr><tr><td width=3D285 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:213.4pt;border-t=
op:none;border-left:solid windowtext 1.5pt;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1=
.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'><p cl=
ass=3DTAL><b><span lang=3DEN-GB>T38FaxUdpEC<o:p></o:p></span></b></p></td><=
td width=3D354 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:265.45pt;border-top:none;border-=
left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtex=
t 1.5pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'><p class=3DTAL><span lang=3DEN-GB>'t38=
UDPRedundancy'<o:p></o:p></span></p></td></tr><tr><td width=3D285 valign=3D=
top style=3D'width:213.4pt;border-top:none;border-left:solid windowtext 1.5=
pt;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt=
;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'><p class=3DTAL><b><span lang=3DEN-GB>T38FaxUd=
pECDepth<o:p></o:p></span></b></p></td><td width=3D354 valign=3Dtop style=
=3D'width:265.45pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid win=
dowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.5pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4=
pt'><p class=3DTAL><span lang=3DEN-GB>Minred: 1; Maxred: 2 (NOTE 3)<o:p></o=
:p></span></p></td></tr><tr><td width=3D285 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:213=
.4pt;border-top:none;border-left:solid windowtext 1.5pt;border-bottom:solid=
 windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm=
 5.4pt'><p class=3DTAL><b><span lang=3DEN-GB>T38FaxUdpFECMaxSpan<o:p></o:p>=
</span></b></p></td><td width=3D354 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:265.45pt;bo=
rder-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-=
right:solid windowtext 1.5pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'><p class=3DTAL><s=
pan lang=3DEN-GB>3 (NOTE 3)<o:p></o:p></span></p></td></tr><tr><td width=3D=
285 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:213.4pt;border-top:none;border-left:solid w=
indowtext 1.5pt;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.5pt;border-right:solid win=
dowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'><p class=3DTAL><b><span lang=3DE=
N-GB>T38ModemType<o:p></o:p></span></b></p></td><td width=3D354 valign=3Dto=
p style=3D'width:265.45pt;border-top:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:so=
lid windowtext 1.5pt;border-right:solid windowtext 1.5pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt =
0cm 5.4pt'><p class=3DTAL><span lang=3DEN-GB>'t38G3FaxOnly' (<s>NOTE 2,</s>=
 NOTE 3)<o:p></o:p></span></p></td></tr><tr><td width=3D638 colspan=3D2 val=
ign=3Dtop style=3D'width:478.85pt;border:solid windowtext 1.5pt;border-top:=
none;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'><p class=3DTAN><span lang=3DEN-GB>NOTE 1:=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; With Version 4, default values for the SDP attributes ap=
ply if the attributes are omitted. <s>However, some values relate to capabi=
lities of the remote CS FAX equipment unknown to the MGCF.</s><o:p></o:p></=
span></p><p class=3DTAN><s><span lang=3DEN-GB>NOTE 2:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Thi=
s value relates to capabilities of the remote CS FAX equipment unknown to t=
he MGCF. The recommended value (which is also the default value in T.38 ver=
sion 4) is likely to be supported by FAX equipment in CS networks.<o:p></o:=
p></span></s></p><p class=3DTAN><span lang=3DEN-GB>NOTE 3: &nbsp;&nbsp; Onl=
y applicable for T.38 version 4.<o:p></o:p></span></p></td></tr></table></d=
iv><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'fon=
t-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#003300'>Would you agree?<o:p=
></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-siz=
e:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#003300'>Albrecht<o:p></o:p></span=
></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font=
-family:"Courier New";color:#003300'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=
=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Cour=
ier New";color:#003300'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div style=3D'bord=
er:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=
=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"T=
ahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Belling, Thomas (NSN - DE/Munich=
) [<a href=3D"mailto:thomas.belling@nsn.com">mailto:thomas.belling@nsn.com<=
/a>] <br><b>Sent:</b> Donnerstag, 2. August 2012 11:03<br><b>To:</b> Schwar=
z, Albrecht (Albrecht); <a href=3D"mailto:3GPP_TSG_CT_WG3@LIST.ETSI.ORG">3G=
PP_TSG_CT_WG3@LIST.ETSI.ORG</a><br><b>Subject:</b> RE: H.248-controlled T.3=
8 configurations: SDP- vs Property-based H.248 signalling<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNor=
mal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","san=
s-serif";color:#1F497D'>Hello Albrecht,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMso=
Normal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","=
sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal=
><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-s=
erif";color:#1F497D'>a gateway could support FAX &#8220;transcoding&#8221;,=
 as I like to call it, and then use those parameters. But as Kevin wrote, i=
t is highly unusual for MGW implementations to do so. In my view we should =
not burden the MGW with such functionality and the benefit is also question=
able, in particular because Kevin believes the JBIG and NMR encoding are al=
so rarely used by T.38 terminals. I was rather envisioning a reframing of T=
.30 at the MGW. Reading your explanation that you support the default value=
s I suspect this is also what your MGW does (as mine). Also in the table B.=
1 you attached those parameters are &#8220;optional&#8221;. So, depending o=
n MGW implementation, those could either be capabilities of the CS FAX equi=
pment (if a reframing is done at the MGW as I envision), or of the MGW (if =
the MGW performs FAX &#8220;transcoding&#8221;).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"C=
alibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3D=
MsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri=
","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>For the 3GPP profiles, we do not necesarrily =
include any conceivable option but only options with a real benefit. I woul=
d prefer not to include FAX &#8220;transcoding&#8221; for the reasons outli=
ned above. Assuming that we only want to use the default value, it does not=
 need to be signalled to the MGW but can rather be a provisioned value. So =
I do not see a need to propagate those parameters over the Mn interface.<o:=
p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-si=
ze:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:=
p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.=
0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Perhaps the NOTES sho=
uld be phrased a bit clearer and include an explanation that only T.30 refr=
aming is included in the Mn profile and under this condition, those SDP att=
ributes relate to capabilities of the CS FAX equipment.<o:p></o:p></span></=
p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fa=
mily:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"=
Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Thomas<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=
=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Cali=
bri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMso=
Normal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";c=
olor:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=
=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p=
>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5=
C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3D=
EN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</s=
pan></b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","=
sans-serif"'> 3GPP_TSG_CT_WG3 - Core Network and Terminals WG 3 [<a href=3D=
"mailto:3GPP_TSG_CT_WG3@LIST.ETSI.ORG">mailto:3GPP_TSG_CT_WG3@LIST.ETSI.ORG=
</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>ext Schwarz, Albrecht (Albrecht)<br><b>Sent:</b> =
Thursday, August 02, 2012 10:05 AM<br><b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:3GPP_TSG=
_CT_WG3@LIST.ETSI.ORG">3GPP_TSG_CT_WG3@LIST.ETSI.ORG</a><br><b>Subject:</b>=
 Re: H.248-controlled T.38 configurations: SDP- vs Property-based H.248 sig=
nalling<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;f=
ont-family:"Courier New";color:#993366'>Hello Thomas,<o:p></o:p></span></p>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Courier New";color:#993366'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoN=
ormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New=
";color:#993366'>I followed the SIP Forum FoIP thread, but I fail to see th=
at confirmation towards remote G3FE.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNor=
mal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";=
color:#993366'>Actually it&#8217;s rather the opposite, see Kevin&#8217;s r=
eply to you:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US s=
tyle=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#993366'><o:p>&nbs=
p;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; (I did n=
ot find any definition of MMR format apart from &#8220;Modified <o:p></o:p>=
</span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; Modified Read&#8=
221; in T.38. However on Annex VI of T.30, MMR is defined as <o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; the T.6 encoding. T=
his also matches explanations in Wikipedia)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=
=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; *T38FaxTranscodingJBIG*: Indicates =
the ability to convert to/from JBIG <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPla=
inText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; to reduce bandwidth. This<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;<o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; is a boolean parameter (=
inclusion =3D true, exclusion =3D false).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DM=
soPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPl=
ainText><span lang=3DEN-US>It is <span style=3D'color:red'>possible for a T=
.30&lt;-&gt;T.38 gateway</span> to <span style=3D'color:red'>provide these =
behaviors if desired</span>, and the resulting T.38 bitstream would differ =
in some noticeable ways from the T.30 bitstream. However, based on discussi=
ons with various knowledgeable parties during our previous work in this gro=
up, it appears that it is highly unusual for a T.38 implementation (gateway=
 or terminal) to actually perform any of these three functions.<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt=
;font-family:"Courier New";color:#993366'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"C=
ourier New";color:#993366'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListPa=
ragraph style=3D'text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo4'><![if !suppor=
tLists]><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;=
color:#993366'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>=F0<span style=3D'font:7.0pt=
 "Times New Roman"'>&nbsp; </span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3DEN-U=
S style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#993366'>it&#82=
17;s a gateway capability!<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoListParagraph=
 style=3D'text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo4'><![if !supportLists]=
><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#=
993366'><span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>=F0<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times=
 New Roman"'>&nbsp; </span></span></span><![endif]><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#993366'>all your thre=
e referred T.38 parameters are subject of the IM-MGW implementation!<o:p></=
o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:1=
0.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#993366'>and ALU supports the recomme=
nded default values by Table H.2/T.38 (which should be inline with your pro=
posal).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#993366'><o:p>&nbsp;</=
o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:1=
0.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#993366'>Hence, Kevin explicitly conf=
irms this also as gateway capability!<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNo=
rmal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"=
;color:#993366'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=
=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#993366'=
>Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US styl=
e=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#993366'>Albrecht<o:p=
></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font=
-family:"Courier New";color:#993366'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=
=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";colo=
r:#993366'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'=
font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#993366'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p>=
</span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family=
:"Courier New";color:#993366'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div style=
=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><=
p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fa=
mily:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'fon=
t-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Belling, Thomas (NSN - DE=
/Munich) [<a href=3D"mailto:thomas.belling@nsn.com">mailto:thomas.belling@n=
sn.com</a>] <br><b>Sent:</b> Mittwoch, 1. August 2012 16:46<br><b>To:</b> S=
chwarz, Albrecht (Albrecht); <a href=3D"mailto:3GPP_TSG_CT_WG3@LIST.ETSI.OR=
G">3GPP_TSG_CT_WG3@LIST.ETSI.ORG</a><br><b>Subject:</b> RE: H.248-controlle=
d T.38 configurations: SDP- vs Property-based H.248 signalling<o:p></o:p></=
span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri"=
,"sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Dear Albrecht,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=
=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Cali=
bri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMso=
Normal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","=
sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Thanks for your comments.<o:p></o:p></span></p><=
p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-famil=
y:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Cal=
ibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>with respect to T38FaxFillBitRemoval, T38=
FaxTranscodingMMR and T38FaxTranscodingJBIG SDP attributes, to which Notes =
1 and 2 relate, &nbsp;I had some discussions at the SIP forum FoIP mailing =
list as you suggested.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=
=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color=
:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-=
US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F49=
7D'>And it was confirmed that unless you do some &#8220;transcoding&#8221; =
of the payload within T.38 at the MGW, those properties relate to the remot=
e CS FAX endpoint. However, people thought that not signaling those propert=
ies in H.248v4 might be OK, because the default values which then apply are=
 likely to be supported by any receiving CS endpoint. The only open issue w=
here I did not yet receive any reply is whether any harm is done if the CS =
endpoint behaves differently when sending.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D=
MsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri=
","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNor=
mal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","san=
s-serif";color:#1F497D'>Thomas<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><s=
pan lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-seri=
f";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span la=
ng=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";col=
or:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DE=
N-US style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F=
497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top=
:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><sp=
an lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"=
'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=
"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> 3GPP_TSG_CT_WG3 - Core Network and Terminals WG 3 [=
<a href=3D"mailto:3GPP_TSG_CT_WG3@LIST.ETSI.ORG">mailto:3GPP_TSG_CT_WG3@LIS=
T.ETSI.ORG</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>ext Schwarz, Albrecht (Albrecht)<br><b>=
Sent:</b> Wednesday, August 01, 2012 4:17 PM<br><b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailt=
o:3GPP_TSG_CT_WG3@LIST.ETSI.ORG">3GPP_TSG_CT_WG3@LIST.ETSI.ORG</a><br><b>Su=
bject:</b> H.248-controlled T.38 configurations: SDP- vs Property-based H.2=
48 signalling<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;fon=
t-family:"Courier New";color:#002060'>[Cc&#8217;d megaco list due to H.248.=
2]</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p></=
o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.=
0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#002060'>&nbsp;</span><span style=3D'fo=
nt-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier N=
ew";color:#002060'>The <b>T.38 parameters</b> as defined by ITU-T T.38 are =
related to a <b>T.38 endpoint implementation</b>, such as the <b>T.38 user =
plane interworking function</b> as e.g. located in an H.248 IP-to-TDM media=
 gateway (e.g. 3GPP IM-MGW).</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:"Courier New"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><s=
pan style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#002060'>&nbs=
p;</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p></=
o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.=
0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#002060'>There are fundamentally two si=
gnaling options for such T.38 configurations:</span><span style=3D'font-siz=
e:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><ol start=
=3D1 type=3Da><li class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'color:#002060;mso-margin-top-a=
lt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo7'><b><span style=
=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>SDP-based</span></b><span s=
tyle=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>: using <b>T.38 Annex D=
</b> defined SDP elements embedded in H.248 descriptors<o:p></o:p></span></=
li><li class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'color:#002060;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso=
-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo7'><b><span style=3D'font-siz=
e:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Property-based</span></b><span style=3D=
'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>: using <b>H.248.2, IP Fax pac=
kage</b> defined properties, such as specified by clauses 10.1.3 to 10.1.7<=
o:p></o:p></span></li></ol><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-si=
ze:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#002060'>&nbsp;</span><s=
pan style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p></o:p></span>=
</p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fa=
mily:"Courier New";color:#002060'>Both H.248 signalling options are basical=
ly equivalent, - independent of SDP- or Property-based signaling elements. =
The signaling elements relate to the T.38 endpoint, but NOT to any remote G=
3FE.</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p>=
</o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:1=
0.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#002060'>[Note: the H.248 IP fax pack=
age version 1 (from 2005/2007) does not yet contain the latest T.38V4 (2010=
) parameter. But this aspect is irrelevant in this discussion due to the pr=
oposal in 3GPP for the SDP-based method.]</span><span style=3D'font-size:10=
.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=
=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-se=
rif";color:#002060'>&nbsp;</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-famil=
y:"Courier New"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><spa=
n style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#002060'>Thus,<=
/span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p></o:p=
></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt=
;font-family:"Courier New";color:#002060'>all &#8220;T.38 SDP attributes&#8=
221; (in C3-121327) are related to gateway capabilities (such as supported =
T.38 configurations by an IM-MGW implementation) (NOTE: attached is T.38 Ta=
ble B.1 for H.323 gateways, which again underlines the relation to gateway =
capabilities).</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier N=
ew"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'f=
ont-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#002060'>The MGC / MGCF may=
 be either</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'=
><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><ol start=3D1 type=3Da><li class=3DMsoNormal s=
tyle=3D'color:#002060;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;ms=
o-list:l0 level1 lfo10'><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courie=
r New"'>aware of the supported T.38 configuration(s) by his associated MGs =
or<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'color:#002060;mso-m=
argin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo10'><sp=
an style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>unaware.<o:p></o:p>=
</span></li></ol><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;=
font-family:"Courier New";color:#002060'>Awareness may be achieved via audi=
ting or configuration management.</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;fon=
t-family:"Courier New"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNorm=
al><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#002060'=
>Unawareness is basically possible, but may lead to inefficient or even ine=
ffective H.248 scenarios for T.38.</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;fo=
nt-family:"Courier New"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNor=
mal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#002060=
'>Dependent on the amount of &#8220;supported T.38 configuration(s)&#8221; =
knowledge at MGC level would be the content of the SIP-level SDP O/A proced=
ures.</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p=
></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#002060'>&nbsp;</span><span=
 style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p></o:p></span></p=
></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-famil=
y:"Courier New";color:#002060'>Conclusions for <b>C3-121327</b> (<a href=3D=
"http://www.3gpp.org/ftp/tsg_ct/WG3_interworking_ex-CN3/TSGC3_70_Chicago/Do=
cs/C3-121327.zip">http://www.3gpp.org/ftp/tsg_ct/WG3_interworking_ex-CN3/TS=
GC3_70_Chicago/Docs/C3-121327.zip</a>):</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0=
pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DM=
soNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:#0=
02060'>NOTEs 1 and 2 in Table X.3.1 are incorrect in my opinion.</span><spa=
n style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p></o:p></span></=
p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Courier New";color:#002060'>The <b>text</b> related to &#8220;remote CS=
 FAX equipment&#8221; (term should be anyway replaced by term G3FE) should =
be just <b>deleted</b>. And there would be correspondent changes at other t=
ables.</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:=
p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size=
:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#002060'>&nbsp;</span><spa=
n style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p></o:p></span></=
p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Courier New";color:#002060'>-Albrecht</span><span style=3D'font-size:10=
.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=
=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-se=
rif";color:#002060'>&nbsp;</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-famil=
y:"Courier New"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><spa=
n style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#C0000=
0'>&nbsp;</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>=
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><di=
v><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri=
","sans-serif"'>&nbsp;</span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"C=
ourier New"'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></body></html>=

--_000_5F7BCCF5541B7444830A2288ABBEBC96218B57EE91FRMRSSXCHMBSD_--

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Subject: Re: [Megaco] H.248-controlled T.38 configurations: SDP- vs Property-based H.248 signalling
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Albrecht in particular: I'm having to release your messages 
administratively because they are too large. Please:

- delete older portions of your messages when you reply;

- send messages in text only rather than text and HTML.

Thanks,
Tom Taylor

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Thread-Topic: Wildcard "$" in Add command changes Signal properties in physical termination
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Subject: [Megaco] Wildcard "$" in Add command changes Signal properties in physical termination
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Hello all,

I came across a strange scenario which I haven't been able to justify it
from the H.248.1 document.

We have an MGC-MG connection in a call waiting scenario where the MGC
applies call-waiting tone to the MG in a physical termination via the
following message: C =3D 1 { MF=3Dport_1{ SG { CG/CW } } }=20

The message is successfully ack'ed by the MG and the PSTN subscriber
successfully hears the call-waiting tone. What will happen to the
call-waiting tone if the MGC issues an Add command with wildcard "$" and
ring-back tone application, like the one below?
C =3D 1 {  A=3D$ { M { O { MO=3DIN,NT/JIT=3D0 } , L  { SDP } } ,  =
SG{CG/RT} } }=20

[ As expected, the MG chooses an ephemeral termination in the subsequent
Add Reply]

Does H.248.1 state anywhere that if a signal is applied in a command
that bears a wildcard "$" termination, , it will replace the last signal
that was applied in the physical termination?  We observed that upon
sending the Add command, the call-waiting tone is deactivated! I would
consider this behavior as a MG deficiency, but I would gladly like to
hear your opinion, as well.


Thank you,
Greg



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<TITLE>Wildcard &quot;$&quot; in Add command changes Signal properties =
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<BODY>
<!-- Converted from text/rtf format -->

<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">Hello =
all,</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">I came across a =
strange scenario</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri"> which I haven</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">&#8217;</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">t been able to justify it from the =
H.248.1</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT FACE=3D"Calibri"> =
document.</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">W</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">e have an MGC-MG</FONT></SPAN><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT FACE=3D"Calibri"> connection in =
a</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri"></FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"> <FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">call waiting scenario</FONT></SPAN><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-us"> <FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">where the MGC =
applie</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">s</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri"> call-waiting tone</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"> =
<FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">to the MG</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"> =
<FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">in a</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"> <FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">physical termination</FONT></SPAN><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT FACE=3D"Calibri"> via the following =
message:</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri"></FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"> <FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">C</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri"></FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"> <FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">=3D</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri"></FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"> <FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">1</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri"></FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"> <FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">{ MF=3Dport_</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">1</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">{</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri"></FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"> <FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">SG</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri"></FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"> <FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">{</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri"></FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"> <FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">CG/CW</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri"></FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"> <FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">}</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri"></FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"> <FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">}</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri"></FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"> <FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">}</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri"></FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"> </SPAN></P>

<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">The message is =
successfully ack</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">&#8217;</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">ed by the MG and the PSTN subscriber successfully hears =
t</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">he =
call-waiting tone.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri"> What will happen to the call-waiting tone if the MGC =
issues an Add command with wildcard</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"> =
<FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">&#8220;</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">$</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">&#8221;</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri"> and ring-back tone application, like =
the</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"> <FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">one =
below?</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">C</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri"></FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"> <FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">=3D</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri"></FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"> <FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">1</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri"></FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"> <FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">{</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri"></FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us">&nbsp;<FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri"> A=3D$</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri"></FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"> <FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">{</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri"></FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"> <FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">M</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri"></FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"> <FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">{</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri"></FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"> <FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">O</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri"></FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"> <FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">{</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri"></FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"> <FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">MO=3DIN,NT/JIT=3D0</FONT></SPAN><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT FACE=3D"Calibri"></FONT></SPAN><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-us"> <FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">}</FONT></SPAN><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT FACE=3D"Calibri"></FONT></SPAN><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-us"> <FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">,</FONT></SPAN><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT FACE=3D"Calibri"></FONT></SPAN><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-us"> <FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">L&nbsp;</FONT></SPAN><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-us"> <FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">{</FONT></SPAN><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT FACE=3D"Calibri"> SDP</FONT></SPAN><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT FACE=3D"Calibri"></FONT></SPAN><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-us"> <FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">}</FONT></SPAN><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT FACE=3D"Calibri"></FONT></SPAN><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-us"> <FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">}</FONT></SPAN><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT FACE=3D"Calibri"></FONT></SPAN><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-us"> <FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">,</FONT></SPAN><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT FACE=3D"Calibri"></FONT></SPAN><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-us">&nbsp;<FONT FACE=3D"Calibri"></FONT></SPAN><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-us"> <FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">SG{CG/RT}</FONT></SPAN><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT FACE=3D"Calibri"></FONT></SPAN><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-us"> <FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">}</FONT></SPAN><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT FACE=3D"Calibri"></FONT></SPAN><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-us"> <FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">}</FONT></SPAN><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT FACE=3D"Calibri"></FONT></SPAN><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-us"> </SPAN></P>

<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">[</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"> <FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">As expected, t</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">he MG chooses an ephemeral =
termination</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT FACE=3D"Calibri"> in =
the subsequent Add Reply</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">]</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">Doe</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">s</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"> <FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">H.248.1 state anywhere that if a =
signal</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"> <FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">is =
applied</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"> <FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">in a =
command</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"> <FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">that =
bears a</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri"></FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"> <FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">wildcard</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"> <FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">&#8220;</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">$</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">&#8221;</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri"> termination</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">, , it will replace the last si</FONT></SPAN><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">gnal that was applied in the =
physical termination?</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri"></FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us">&nbsp;<FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri"> We observed that</FONT></SPAN><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT FACE=3D"Calibri"> upon sending the Add =
command,</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT FACE=3D"Calibri"> the =
call-waiting tone is deactivated!</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"> =
<FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">I</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"> <FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">would consider this behavior as a MG =
deficiency</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">, =
but I would gladly like to</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri"> hear your opinion, as</FONT></SPAN><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-us"> <FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">well</FONT></SPAN><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN =
LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT FACE=3D"Calibri">Thank =
you,</FONT></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT =
FACE=3D"Calibri">Greg</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN><SPAN =
LANG=3D"de-de"></SPAN></P>

<P DIR=3DLTR><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"></SPAN></P>

</BODY>
</HTML>
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From arindam.bhattacharjee@alcatel-lucent.com  Wed Aug 22 07:06:53 2012
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From: "Bhattacharjee, Arindam (Arindam)" <arindam.bhattacharjee@alcatel-lucent.com>
To: "Beis, Grigoris (NSN - GR/Athens)" <grigoris.beis@nsn.com>, "megaco@ietf.org" <megaco@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Wildcard "$" in Add command changes Signal properties in physical termination
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Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2012 14:06:27 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Megaco] Wildcard "$" in Add command changes Signal properties in	physical termination
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Hi Greg,
Your interpretation is correct.
MG should not stop signal on physical termination in your case while adding=
 another termination in that context and should be able to play signals on =
both terminations as instructed by MGC.
-Arindam


From: megaco-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:megaco-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of=
 Beis, Grigoris (NSN - GR/Athens)
Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2012 5:21 AM
To: megaco@ietf.org
Subject: [Megaco] Wildcard "$" in Add command changes Signal properties in =
physical termination


Hello all,

I came across a strange scenario which I haven't been able to justify it fr=
om the H.248.1 document.

We have an MGC-MG connection in a call waiting scenario where the MGC appli=
es call-waiting tone to the MG in a physical termination via the following =
message: C =3D 1 { MF=3Dport_1{ SG { CG/CW } } }

The message is successfully ack'ed by the MG and the PSTN subscriber succes=
sfully hears the call-waiting tone. What will happen to the call-waiting to=
ne if the MGC issues an Add command with wildcard "$" and ring-back tone ap=
plication, like the one below?

C =3D 1 {  A=3D$ { M { O { MO=3DIN,NT/JIT=3D0 } , L  { SDP } } ,  SG{CG/RT}=
 } }

[ As expected, the MG chooses an ephemeral termination in the subsequent Ad=
d Reply]

Does H.248.1 state anywhere that if a signal is applied in a command that b=
ears a wildcard "$" termination, , it will replace the last signal that was=
 applied in the physical termination?  We observed that upon sending the Ad=
d command, the call-waiting tone is deactivated! I would consider this beha=
vior as a MG deficiency, but I would gladly like to hear your opinion, as w=
ell.

Thank you,

Greg

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<title>Wildcard &quot;$&quot; in Add command changes Signal properties in p=
hysical termination</title>
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Hi Greg,<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Your interpretation is co=
rrect.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">MG should not stop signal=
 on physical termination in your case while adding another termination in t=
hat context and should be able to play signals on both terminations
 as instructed by MGC.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">-Arindam<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> megaco-b=
ounces@ietf.org [mailto:megaco-bounces@ietf.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Beis, Grigoris (NSN - GR/Athens)<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, August 22, 2012 5:21 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> megaco@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Megaco] Wildcard &quot;$&quot; in Add command changes Sign=
al properties in physical termination<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">H=
ello all,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">I=
 came across a strange scenario which I haven&#8217;t been able to justify =
it from the H.248.1 document.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">W=
e have an MGC-MG connection in a</span>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">call=
 waiting scenario</span> <span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&qu=
ot;sans-serif&quot;">
where the MGC applies call-waiting tone</span> <span style=3D"font-family:&=
quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
to the MG</span> <span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;">in a</span> <span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&qu=
ot;sans-serif&quot;">
physical termination via the following message:</span> <span style=3D"font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
C</span> <span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;">=3D</span> <span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-s=
erif&quot;">
1</span> <span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;">{ MF=3Dport_1{</span> <span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&=
quot;sans-serif&quot;">
SG</span> <span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&q=
uot;">{</span> <span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;">
CG/CW</span> <span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-seri=
f&quot;">}</span> <span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans=
-serif&quot;">
}</span> <span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;">}</span> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">T=
he message is successfully ack&#8217;ed by the MG and the PSTN subscriber s=
uccessfully hears the call-waiting tone. What will happen to the call-waiti=
ng tone if the MGC issues an Add command with wildcard</span>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&#82=
20;$&#8221; and ring-back tone application, like the</span>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">one =
below?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">C=
</span> <span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quo=
t;">
=3D</span> <span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&=
quot;">1</span> <span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-s=
erif&quot;">
{</span>&nbsp;<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-ser=
if&quot;"> A=3D$</span> <span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quo=
t;sans-serif&quot;">
{</span> <span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;">M</span> <span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-ser=
if&quot;">
{</span> <span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;">O</span> <span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-ser=
if&quot;">
{</span> <span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;">MO=3DIN,NT/JIT=3D0</span> <span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quo=
t;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
}</span> <span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;">,</span> <span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-ser=
if&quot;">
L&nbsp;</span> <span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;">{ SDP</span> <span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quo=
t;sans-serif&quot;">
}</span> <span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;">}</span> <span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-ser=
if&quot;">
,</span>&nbsp; <span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-se=
rif&quot;">SG{CG/RT}</span> <span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,=
&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
}</span> <span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;">}</span> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">[=
</span> <span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quo=
t;">
As expected, the MG chooses an ephemeral termination in the subsequent Add =
Reply]</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">D=
oes</span> <span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&=
quot;">
H.248.1 state anywhere that if a signal</span> <span style=3D"font-family:&=
quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
is applied</span> <span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans=
-serif&quot;">in a command</span>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">that=
 bears a</span> <span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-s=
erif&quot;">
wildcard</span> <span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-s=
erif&quot;">&#8220;$&#8221; termination, , it will replace the last signal =
that was applied in the physical termination?</span>&nbsp;<span style=3D"fo=
nt-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> We observed that upo=
n sending the Add
 command, the call-waiting tone is deactivated!</span> <span style=3D"font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
I</span> <span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&qu=
ot;">would consider this behavior as a MG deficiency, but I would gladly li=
ke to hear your opinion, as</span>
<span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">well=
.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">T=
hank you,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">G=
reg</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_7DE39EC55B99FC47A3DEB6179256D9910293BDUS70UWXCHMBA01zam_--

From grigoris.beis@nsn.com  Wed Aug 22 07:20:13 2012
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Thread-Topic: Wildcard "$" in Add command changes Signal properties inphysical termination
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From: "Beis, Grigoris (NSN - GR/Athens)" <grigoris.beis@nsn.com>
To: "ext Bhattacharjee, Arindam (Arindam)" <arindam.bhattacharjee@alcatel-lucent.com>,  <megaco@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Megaco] Wildcard "$" in Add command changes Signal properties inphysical termination
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Hello Arindam,

=20

Thanks for the confirmation. To my knowledge, "$" is simply another
termination; either an ephemeral termination or another idle physical
termination. Our physical termination, however, is not idle. It already
occupies resources like the call-waiting tone.

=20

Br,

Greg

=20

From: ext Bhattacharjee, Arindam (Arindam)
[mailto:arindam.bhattacharjee@alcatel-lucent.com]=20
Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2012 5:06 PM
To: Beis, Grigoris (NSN - GR/Athens); megaco@ietf.org
Subject: RE: Wildcard "$" in Add command changes Signal properties
inphysical termination

=20

Hi Greg,

Your interpretation is correct.

MG should not stop signal on physical termination in your case while
adding another termination in that context and should be able to play
signals on both terminations as instructed by MGC.

-Arindam

=20

=20

From: megaco-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:megaco-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf
Of Beis, Grigoris (NSN - GR/Athens)
Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2012 5:21 AM
To: megaco@ietf.org
Subject: [Megaco] Wildcard "$" in Add command changes Signal properties
in physical termination

=20

Hello all,

I came across a strange scenario which I haven't been able to justify it
from the H.248.1 document.

We have an MGC-MG connection in a call waiting scenario where the MGC
applies call-waiting tone to the MG in a physical termination via the
following message: C =3D 1 { MF=3Dport_1{ SG { CG/CW } } }=20

The message is successfully ack'ed by the MG and the PSTN subscriber
successfully hears the call-waiting tone. What will happen to the
call-waiting tone if the MGC issues an Add command with wildcard "$" and
ring-back tone application, like the one below?

C =3D 1 {  A=3D$ { M { O { MO=3DIN,NT/JIT=3D0 } , L  { SDP } } ,  =
SG{CG/RT} } }=20

[ As expected, the MG chooses an ephemeral termination in the subsequent
Add Reply]

Does H.248.1 state anywhere that if a signal is applied in a command
that bears a wildcard "$" termination, , it will replace the last signal
that was applied in the physical termination?  We observed that upon
sending the Add command, the call-waiting tone is deactivated! I would
consider this behavior as a MG deficiency, but I would gladly like to
hear your opinion, as well.

Thank you,

Greg


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<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Hello Arindam,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Thanks for the confirmation. To my knowledge, &#8220;$&#8221; is =
simply another termination; either an ephemeral termination or another =
idle physical termination. Our physical termination, however, is not =
idle. It already occupies resources like the call-waiting =
tone.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Br,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Greg<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
ext Bhattacharjee, Arindam (Arindam) =
[mailto:arindam.bhattacharjee@alcatel-lucent.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> =
Wednesday, August 22, 2012 5:06 PM<br><b>To:</b> Beis, Grigoris (NSN - =
GR/Athens); megaco@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: Wildcard =
&quot;$&quot; in Add command changes Signal properties inphysical =
termination<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Hi Greg,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Your interpretation is correct.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>MG should not stop signal on physical termination in your case while =
adding another termination in that context and should be able to play =
signals on both terminations as instructed by =
MGC.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>-Arindam<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
<a href=3D"mailto:megaco-bounces@ietf.org">megaco-bounces@ietf.org</a> =
[<a =
href=3D"mailto:megaco-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:megaco-bounces@ietf.org</a=
>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Beis, Grigoris (NSN - GR/Athens)<br><b>Sent:</b> =
Wednesday, August 22, 2012 5:21 AM<br><b>To:</b> <a =
href=3D"mailto:megaco@ietf.org">megaco@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> =
[Megaco] Wildcard &quot;$&quot; in Add command changes Signal properties =
in physical termination<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Hello =
all,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>I came across a strange =
scenario which I haven&#8217;t been able to justify it from the H.248.1 =
document.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>We have an MGC-MG =
connection in a</span> <span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>call waiting =
scenario</span> <span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>where =
the MGC applies call-waiting tone</span> <span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>to the MG</span> <span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>in a</span> <span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>physical termination via =
the following message:</span> <span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>C</span> <span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>=3D</span> <span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>1</span> <span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>{ MF=3Dport_1{</span> <span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>SG</span> <span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>{</span> <span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>CG/CW</span> <span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>}</span> <span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>}</span> <span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>}</span> =
<o:p></o:p></p><p><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>The =
message is successfully ack&#8217;ed by the MG and the PSTN subscriber =
successfully hears the call-waiting tone. What will happen to the =
call-waiting tone if the MGC issues an Add command with wildcard</span> =
<span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&#8220;$&#8221; and =
ring-back tone application, like the</span> <span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>one =
below?</span><o:p></o:p></p><p><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>C</span> <span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>=3D</span> <span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>1</span> <span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>{</span>&nbsp;<span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> A=3D$</span> <span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>{</span> <span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>M</span> <span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>{</span> <span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>O</span> <span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>{</span> <span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>MO=3DIN,NT/JIT=3D0</span> =
<span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>}</span> <span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>,</span> <span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>L&nbsp;</span> <span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>{ SDP</span> <span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>}</span> <span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>}</span> <span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>,</span>&nbsp; <span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>SG{CG/RT}</span> <span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>}</span> <span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>}</span> =
<o:p></o:p></p><p><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>[</span> <span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>As expected, the MG chooses =
an ephemeral termination in the subsequent Add =
Reply]</span><o:p></o:p></p><p><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Does</span> <span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>H.248.1 state anywhere that =
if a signal</span> <span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>is =
applied</span> <span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>in a =
command</span> <span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>that =
bears a</span> <span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>wildcard</span> <span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>&#8220;$&#8221; =
termination, , it will replace the last signal that was applied in the =
physical termination?</span>&nbsp;<span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> We observed that upon =
sending the Add command, the call-waiting tone is deactivated!</span> =
<span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>I</span> <span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>would consider this =
behavior as a MG deficiency, but I would gladly like to hear your =
opinion, as</span> <span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>well.</span><o:p></o:p></p><=
p><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Thank =
you,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Greg</span><o:p></o:p></p></=
div></body></html>
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From chaim.geretz@idt.net  Wed Aug 22 09:54:52 2012
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From: Chaim Geretz <chaim.geretz@idt.net>
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2012 12:54:25 -0400
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Subject: [Megaco] MEGACO version in ServiceChange Reply
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--f46d04389095a16ce804c7dd99b9
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Hi,

Assume MG sends a ServiceChange encoded as MEGACO/1 with VERSION=3

MGC supports offered version, how does it encode the response; as MEGACO/1
or MEGACO/3? I see the example in ITU H248.1 (09/2005) Appendix I showing a
response of MEGACO/1 but I was unable to find this discussed anywhere else
in the specification.

Thank you

Chaim Geretz

--f46d04389095a16ce804c7dd99b9
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div>Hi,</div><div><br></div><div>Assume MG sends a ServiceChange encoded a=
s MEGACO/1 with VERSION=3D3</div><div><br></div><div>MGC supports offered v=
ersion, how does it encode the response; as MEGACO/1 or MEGACO/3? I see the=
 example in ITU H248.1 (09/2005) Appendix I showing a response of MEGACO/1 =
but I was unable to find this discussed anywhere else in the specification.=
</div>

<div><br></div><div>Thank you</div><div><br></div><div>Chaim Geretz</div><d=
iv><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div>

--f46d04389095a16ce804c7dd99b9--

From Christian.Groves@nteczone.com  Thu Aug 23 18:01:12 2012
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Cc: "megaco@ietf.org" <megaco@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Megaco] MEGACO version in ServiceChange Reply
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Hello Chaim,

Section 11.3 /H.248.1 discusses protocol version negotiation. However I 
think it is a little ambiguous in this regard. It does not say 
explicitly that you should use version 1 in the ServiceChange.reply.

The text is below:
*11.3    Negotiation of protocol version*
/A ServiceChange Command from a MG that registers with an MGC shall 
contain the version number of the protocol supported by the MG in the 
ServiceChangeVersion parameter. Regardless of the version placed in the 
ServiceChangeVersion parameter, the message containing the command shall 
be encoded as a version 1 message.
Upon receiving such a message, if the MGC supports only a lower version, 
then the MGC shall send a ServiceChange Reply with the lower version 
and, thereafter, all the messages between MG and MGC shall conform to 
the lower version of the protocol. If the MG is unable to comply, and it 
has established a transport connection to the MGC, it should close that 
connection. In any event, it should reject all subsequent requests from 
the MGC with Error Code 406 ("Version Not Supported").
/ /If the MGC supports the version indicated by the MG, <<<it shall 
conform to that version in all subsequent messages>>>.  In this case it 
is optional for the MGC to return a version in the ServiceChange Reply./

I think the confusion comes from "in all subsequent messages". It could 
be argued that the message containing the ServiceChange.Reply is a 
"subsequent" message. However I think the intention at the time was that 
the subsequent messages meant messages after the 
Servicechange.req/.reply was completed (i.e. the control associated is 
fully established). This is shown by the Appendix I.

Also I don't think there is any other case where the version numbers 
associated with a message with Transaction.request and a message with a 
Transaction.reply change.

Therefore I think the safest behaviour is to use version 1 encoding for 
the message containing the ServiceChange.Reply

Regards, Christian

On 23/08/2012 2:54 AM, Chaim Geretz wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Assume MG sends a ServiceChange encoded as MEGACO/1 with VERSION=3
>
> MGC supports offered version, how does it encode the response; as 
> MEGACO/1 or MEGACO/3? I see the example in ITU H248.1 (09/2005) 
> Appendix I showing a response of MEGACO/1 but I was unable to find 
> this discussed anywhere else in the specification.
>
> Thank you
>
> Chaim Geretz
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Megaco mailing list
> Megaco@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/megaco


From Abhijit.Dutta@radisys.com  Thu Aug 30 00:00:26 2012
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From: Abhijit Dutta <Abhijit.Dutta@radisys.com>
To: "megaco@ietf.org" <megaco@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Digitmap
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--_000_38519B6C2F9E794B82363B4C77EA57FF01356A6Corexchange04rad_
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Hi,

As pre spec:

"If the timer expires and a member of the candidate set of alternatives is =
fully satisfied, a timeout completion with full match is reported.
 If the timer expires and part or none of any candidate alternative is sati=
sfied, a  timeout completion with partial match is reported.
In either case, if the digit map completion event allows for detailed timeo=
ut reporting, the reported dial string will end with 'L', 'S', or 'T' as ap=
propriate"


What we see is MG reports collected digit string but does not include "S"  =
event in cases where it appears the MG waited for the S timer to expire bef=
ore reporting the Digitstring.

Q: should MG be including the Termination method with Digitstring ?
Q: in case of PM with empty digit string, should the Termination method be =
included ?
Q: in case of PM, does the MS report  the partially collected digits?

If Digitmap is xxxx and MS detects "123" and S timer expires waiting for 4t=
h digit, which OBSERVEDEVENT should MS send:
OBSERVEDEVENTS =3D 214 { 1:DD/CE { DS =3D "", METH =3D PM }, or
OBSERVEDEVENTS =3D 214 { 1:DD/CE { DS =3D "123", METH =3D PM }, or
OBSERVEDEVENTS =3D 214 { 1:DD/CE { DS =3D "123S", METH =3D PM }

~Thanx
Abhijit

--_000_38519B6C2F9E794B82363B4C77EA57FF01356A6Corexchange04rad_
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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-autospace:none">As pre spec:<o:p></o:p=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-autospace:none"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-autospace:none">&#8220;If the timer ex=
pires and a member of the candidate set of alternatives is fully satisfied,=
 a timeout completion with full match is reported.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-autospace:none">&nbsp;If the timer exp=
ires and part or none of any candidate alternative is satisfied, a &nbsp;ti=
meout completion with partial match is reported.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-autospace:none">In either case, if the=
 digit map completion event allows for detailed timeout reporting, the repo=
rted dial string will end with 'L', 'S', or 'T' as appropriate&quot;<o:p></=
o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-autospace:none"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-autospace:none"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-autospace:none">What we see is MG repo=
rts collected digit string but does not include &quot;S&quot;&nbsp; event i=
n cases where it appears the MG waited for the S timer to expire before rep=
orting the Digitstring.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-autospace:none"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Q: should MG be including the Termination method wit=
h Digitstring ?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Q: in case of PM with empty digit string, should the=
 Termination method be included ?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Q: in case of PM, does the MS report &nbsp;the parti=
ally collected digits?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">If Digitmap is xxxx and MS detects &#8220;123&#8221;=
 and S timer expires waiting for 4th digit, which OBSERVEDEVENT should MS s=
end:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:8.0pt">OBSERVEDEVENTS =3D 2=
14 { 1:DD/CE { DS =3D &quot;&quot;, METH =3D PM }, or<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:8.0pt">OBSERVEDEVENTS =3D 2=
14 { 1:DD/CE { DS =3D &quot;123&quot;, METH =3D PM }, or<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:8.0pt">OBSERVEDEVENTS =3D 2=
14 { 1:DD/CE { DS =3D &quot;123S&quot;, METH =3D PM }<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">~Thanx<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Abhijit <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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