Subject: RE: [midcom] pre-midcom candidates

From: Steve Davies <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 16:49:17 -0000

Melinda,

Are you moving the goal-posts? I thought the new deliverable was to:

'develop or document a protocol or approach that allows
clients to indirectly obtain address bindings from midcom-unaware
middleboxes, through communications with server elements on the public
side of the middlebox'

In my book a midcom-unaware middlebox could be a firewall, a firewall/NAT
combination, or just a NAT, so a pre-midcom solution must enable the
traversal of all these midcom-unaware devices - not just NATs. 

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: Melinda Shore [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: 12 November 2001 16:04
To: Steve Davies; 'Bob Penfield'; 'midcom'
Subject: RE: [midcom] pre-midcom candidates

At 02:28 PM 11/12/01 +0000, Steve Davies wrote:
>[SD] How can you make this claim when STUN doesn't solve the NAT/FW
problem? 

I'd like to remind everybody that pre-midcom != midcom.  That
is to say, the intent is to get a simple hack addressing the hard
problem (NAT traversal) out quickly.  The work that's going to
address NAT and firewall traversal and attempt to be thorough
about it is midcom itself.  Please, let's not get carried away.

Melinda

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From: "Bob Penfield" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 12:24:20 -0500

> middleboxes, through communications with server elements on the public
Regardless of whether its a NAT or a firewall, "indirectly obtain address
bindings .... through communications with server elements" sounds a lot more
like 'the discovery of the type of firewall/NAT combination a terminal is
behind' than 'the traversal of VoIP through any firewall/NAT combination'.
Address binding discovery is what the STUN proposal addresses rather than a
complete the VOIP solution. We're not even required to deal with the
symetric-NAT problem.

This is something that we need to submit to the IESG ASAP (in 2001). In
fact, according to the midcom web-page (which says Oct 01), we're already
late.

BTW, shouldn't we get the above verbage on the pre-midcom deliverable on the
IETF midcom web-page? It just has a milestone right now.

(-:bob

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From: Melinda Shore <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 12:35:36 -0500

>IETF midcom web-page? It just has a milestone right now.

There are still discussions going on in the IESG/IAB.  I'll
let you know as soon as there's some sort of resolution.

Melinda