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From: "Roman D. Danyliw" <rdd@cert.org>
To: "Panos Kampanakis (pkampana)" <pkampana@cisco.com>, "'Moriarty, Kathleen'" <kathleen.moriarty@emc.com>, "mile@ietf.org" <mile@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [mile] Documenting DomainData
Thread-Index: AQHPFeZKcVHy8XjkSUe8d5nwrbpqVpqOITGAgAAOhgCABB0RoIAAFI3ggAHKzCCAADjHoIAOdveQ
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2014 02:21:11 +0000
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Hi Panos, et al!

Regardless of format, we need to document every record type listed in @Reco=
rdType to enumerate which fields from this record type will be supported, w=
hat representation will be used to store the field, and an appropriate RFC =
citation.

To the larger group, do we want a colon separated list, or since the data m=
odel is implemented in XML, individual classes to represent the fields (e.g=
.,  ApplicationHeaderType)?

Roman

From: Panos Kampanakis (pkampana) [mailto:pkampana@cisco.com]
Sent: Friday, January 24, 2014 4:18 PM
To: Roman D. Danyliw; 'Moriarty, Kathleen'; mile@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [mile] Documenting DomainData

I see your point now. Yes, we need to be as specific as possible.

We can format them using colons as separators as you used in your example f=
ollowing a simple pattern.  It can be

<owner>:< TTL>:<MX Level>:< Data>

The type is dictated by the RelatedDNS attribute and the class should be as=
sumed as IN.

Panos



From: Roman D. Danyliw [mailto:rdd@cert.org]
Sent: Friday, January 24, 2014 1:03 PM
To: Panos Kampanakis (pkampana); 'Moriarty, Kathleen'; mile@ietf.org<mailto=
:mile@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [mile] Documenting DomainData

Hello!

I concur that RelatedDNS contains related DNS records for the domain listed=
 in DomainData/Name.  However, I don't think we can be vague in describing =
the format of RelatedDNS.

The example shared by Kathleen's had the following example of a MX record.

<iodef:RelatedDNS RecordType=3D"MX">evildave.com MX prefernce =3D 10, mail =
exchanger =3D mail1.evildave.com</iodef:RelatedDNS>

I can infer the format.  However, without the draft providing guidance, the=
 following could have also have been acceptable (replacing evildave.com for=
 example.com):

<RelatedDNS RecordType=3D"MX">mail1.org1.example.com</RelatedDNS>
<RelatedDNS RecordType=3D"MX">org1.example.com 4000 IN MX 10 mail1.org1.exa=
mple.com</RelatedDNS>
<RelatedDNS RecordType=3D"MX">org1.example.com mail1.org1.example.com</Rela=
tedDNS>
<RelatedDNS RecordType=3D"MX">@org1.example.com:10.1.2.3:mail1.org1.example=
.com:0:86400:329832:0</RelatedDNS>

I feel that we need to provide implementers unambiguous guidance if we expe=
ct them to parse the field.

Roman

From: Panos Kampanakis (pkampana) [mailto:pkampana@cisco.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2014 9:28 AM
To: Roman D. Danyliw; 'Moriarty, Kathleen'; mile@ietf.org<mailto:mile@ietf.=
org>
Subject: RE: [mile] Documenting DomainData

I think text that says "The RelatedDNS record contain DNS records (i.e. MX,=
 A) that are related to the domain described in its parent DomainData class=
. For example, in DomainData class for domain example.com, the RelatedDNS r=
ecord could be carrying the MX record for example.com." would suffice.
Panos

From: Roman D. Danyliw [mailto:rdd@cert.org]
Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2014 8:20 AM
To: 'Moriarty, Kathleen'; mile@ietf.org<mailto:mile@ietf.org>
Cc: Panos Kampanakis (pkampana)
Subject: RE: [mile] Documenting DomainData

Hi Kathleen!

The example was very helpful.  Thank you.

For discussion purposes on the list, here is a relevant excerpt from the pr=
eviously attached file:
<iodef:DomainData>
<iodef:Name>evildave.com</iodef:Name>
<iodef:DateDomainWasChecked>2013-01-04T09:10:24+00:00</iodef:DateDomainWasC=
hecked>
<iodef:RelatedDNS RecordType=3D"MX">evildave.com MX prefernce =3D 10, mail =
exchanger =3D mail1.evildave.com</iodef:RelatedDNS>
<iodef:RelatedDNS RecordType=3D"A">mail1.evildave.com internet address =3D =
176.157.32.17</iodef:RelatedDNS>
<iodef:RelatedDNS RecordType=3D"SPF">zuesevil.com. IN TXT \"v=3Dspf1 a mx -=
all\"</iodef:RelatedDNS>
</iodef:DomainData>

Reading this particular example, I understand what information is being pas=
sed along in the DNS record.  Where I need help is how do we formally descr=
ibe this format for the draft.

Roman

From: Moriarty, Kathleen [mailto:kathleen.moriarty@emc.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2014 6:50 PM
To: Roman D. Danyliw; mile@ietf.org<mailto:mile@ietf.org>
Cc: 'Panos Kampanakis (pkampana)' (pkampana@cisco.com<mailto:pkampana@cisco=
.com>)
Subject: RE: [mile] Documenting DomainData

Hi Roman,

I was able to dig up an example from the group that was proposing the addit=
ion of RelatedDNS to the DomainData class that was added from RFC5901.  Pan=
os may have other examples planned for the IODEF Guidance document.

I think as long as the data of other records can be included, the intent wi=
ll be met for the requestors.  See the attached example and I am sure a pro=
posal that alters it, but provides the ability to include that information =
would be fine.

Anyone else?

Thanks,
Kathleen


From: Roman D. Danyliw [mailto:rdd@cert.org]
Sent: Monday, January 20, 2014 5:04 PM
To: Moriarty, Kathleen; mile@ietf.org<mailto:mile@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [mile] Documenting DomainData

Hello!

Understood on #1 and #3.  I still need a little more clarification on your =
answer to question #2, "RelatedDNS lets you add any record type to expand o=
ut what is possible from the Domain data class.  You can also list what typ=
e of record you are including."  To restate, RelatedDNS represents DNS reco=
rds for a domain specified in DomainData/Name?  If so, what exactly goes in=
to the element content of RelatedDNS which is defined as xs:string?  For ex=
ample, if I had an AXFR record (<RelatedDNS RecordType=3D"AXRF">) how would=
 this be encoded?

Since Node/DomainData/DateDomainWasChecked represents when Node/DomainData/=
Name was resolved (where the IP address is stored in Node/Address), is ther=
e a similar construct for these other record types in RelatedDNS?

Roman

From: Moriarty, Kathleen [mailto:kathleen.moriarty@emc.com]
Sent: Monday, January 20, 2014 8:48 AM
To: Roman D. Danyliw; mile@ietf.org<mailto:mile@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [mile] Documenting DomainData

Hi Roman,

#1 I thought the answer was yes, but it would be good to hear if anyone thi=
nks it is too much detail now.

#2 RelatedDNS lets you add any record type to expand out what is possible f=
rom the Domain data class.  You can also list what type of record you are i=
ncluding.

#3 I don't think there is a concern in adjusting the names for consistency.

Thanks,
Kathleen

From: mile [mailto:mile-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Roman D. Danyliw
Sent: Friday, January 17, 2014 9:32 PM
To: mile@ietf.org<mailto:mile@ietf.org>
Subject: [mile] Documenting DomainData

Hello!

Since being copied from RFC5901 into 5070bis, DomainData has evolved.  Curr=
ently the two definition differ as follows:

** 5070bis added DomainData@{indicator-uid, indicator-set-id}
** 5070bis added DomainData/RelatedDNS
** 5070bis uses iodef:Contact for DomainData/DomainContacts/Contact instead=
 of phish:Contact which added classes and attributes to Contact

A few questions:

(1) Since bits and pieces were added and modified in the cut-and-paste from=
 5901, is there agreement that we don't need to remove anything from Domain=
Data?  Do we want to represent this level of detail in the core IODEF data =
model?

(2) RelatedDNS was added to DomainData and is not present in RFC5901.  Ther=
e is no descriptive text.  Could someone shed light on the purpose of this =
class.

(3) The attributes DomainData@{SystemStatus, DomainStatus} and RelatedDNS@R=
ecordType don't follow the naming convention of lower case names separated =
by a hyphen.  As in other cases where classes have been moved, I would be i=
nclined to rename the attributes.  Any concern in doing that?

Roman

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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Hi Panos, et al!<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Regardless of format, =
we need to document every record type listed in @RecordType to enumerate wh=
ich fields from this record type will be supported, what representation wil=
l be used to store the field, and an
 appropriate RFC citation.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">To the larger group, d=
o we want a colon separated list, or since the data model is implemented in=
 XML, individual classes to represent the fields (e.g., &nbsp;ApplicationHe=
aderType)?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Roman<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> Panos Ka=
mpanakis (pkampana) [mailto:pkampana@cisco.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, January 24, 2014 4:18 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Roman D. Danyliw; 'Moriarty, Kathleen'; mile@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [mile] Documenting DomainData<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">I see your point now. =
Yes, we need to be as specific as possible.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">We can format them usi=
ng colons as separators as you used in your example following a simple patt=
ern. &nbsp;It can be
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><i><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&lt;owner&gt;:&lt;<=
/span> <span style=3D"color:#1F497D">
TTL&gt;:&lt;MX Level&gt;:&lt;</span> <span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Data&gt;=
<o:p></o:p></span></i></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">The type is dictated b=
y the RelatedDNS attribute and the class should be assumed as IN.<o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Panos<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> Roman D.=
 Danyliw [<a href=3D"mailto:rdd@cert.org">mailto:rdd@cert.org</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, January 24, 2014 1:03 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Panos Kampanakis (pkampana); 'Moriarty, Kathleen'; <a href=3D"ma=
ilto:mile@ietf.org">
mile@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [mile] Documenting DomainData<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Hello!<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">I concur that RelatedD=
NS contains related DNS records for the domain listed in DomainData/Name.&n=
bsp; However, I don&#8217;t think we can be vague in describing the format =
of RelatedDNS.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">The example shared by =
Kathleen&#8217;s had the following example of a MX record.<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&lt;iodef:RelatedDNS R=
ecordType=3D&quot;MX&quot;&gt;evildave.com MX prefernce =3D 10, mail exchan=
ger =3D mail1.evildave.com&lt;/iodef:RelatedDNS&gt;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">I can infer the format=
.&nbsp; However, without the draft providing guidance, the following could =
have also have been acceptable (replacing evildave.com for example.com):<o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&lt;RelatedDNS RecordT=
ype=3D&quot;MX&quot;&gt;mail1.org1.example.com&lt;/RelatedDNS&gt;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&lt;RelatedDNS RecordT=
ype=3D&quot;MX&quot;&gt;org1.example.com 4000 IN MX 10 mail1.org1.example.c=
om&lt;/RelatedDNS&gt;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&lt;RelatedDNS RecordT=
ype=3D&quot;MX&quot;&gt;org1.example.com mail1.org1.example.com&lt;/Related=
DNS&gt;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&lt;RelatedDNS RecordT=
ype=3D&quot;MX&quot;&gt;@org1.example.com:10.1.2.3:mail1.org1.example.com:0=
:86400:329832:0&lt;/RelatedDNS&gt;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">I feel that we need to=
 provide implementers unambiguous guidance if we expect them to parse the f=
ield.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Roman<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> Panos Ka=
mpanakis (pkampana) [<a href=3D"mailto:pkampana@cisco.com">mailto:pkampana@=
cisco.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, January 23, 2014 9:28 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Roman D. Danyliw; 'Moriarty, Kathleen'; <a href=3D"mailto:mile@i=
etf.org">
mile@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [mile] Documenting DomainData<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">I think text that says=
 &#8220;The RelatedDNS record contain DNS records (i.e. MX, A) that are rel=
ated to the domain described in its parent DomainData class. For example, i=
n DomainData class for domain example.com,
 the RelatedDNS record could be carrying the MX record for example.com.&#82=
21; would suffice.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Panos <o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> Roman D.=
 Danyliw [<a href=3D"mailto:rdd@cert.org">mailto:rdd@cert.org</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, January 23, 2014 8:20 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Moriarty, Kathleen'; <a href=3D"mailto:mile@ietf.org">mile@ietf=
.org</a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Panos Kampanakis (pkampana)<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [mile] Documenting DomainData<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Hi Kathleen!<o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">The example was very h=
elpful.&nbsp; Thank you.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">For discussion purpose=
s on the list, here is a relevant excerpt from the previously attached file=
:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&lt;iodef:DomainData&g=
t; <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&lt;iodef:Name&gt;evil=
dave.com&lt;/iodef:Name&gt;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&lt;iodef:DateDomainWa=
sChecked&gt;2013-01-04T09:10:24&#43;00:00&lt;/iodef:DateDomainWasChecked&gt=
;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&lt;iodef:RelatedDNS R=
ecordType=3D&quot;MX&quot;&gt;evildave.com MX prefernce =3D 10, mail exchan=
ger =3D mail1.evildave.com&lt;/iodef:RelatedDNS&gt;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&lt;iodef:RelatedDNS R=
ecordType=3D&quot;A&quot;&gt;mail1.evildave.com internet address =3D 176.15=
7.32.17&lt;/iodef:RelatedDNS&gt;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&lt;iodef:RelatedDNS R=
ecordType=3D&quot;SPF&quot;&gt;zuesevil.com. IN TXT \&quot;v=3Dspf1 a mx &#=
8211;all\&quot;&lt;/iodef:RelatedDNS&gt;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&lt;/iodef:DomainData&=
gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Reading this particula=
r example, I understand what information is being passed along in the DNS r=
ecord.&nbsp; Where I need help is how do we formally describe this format f=
or the draft.&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Roman<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> Moriarty=
, Kathleen [<a href=3D"mailto:kathleen.moriarty@emc.com">mailto:kathleen.mo=
riarty@emc.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, January 22, 2014 6:50 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Roman D. Danyliw; <a href=3D"mailto:mile@ietf.org">mile@ietf.org=
</a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> 'Panos Kampanakis (pkampana)' (<a href=3D"mailto:pkampana@cisco.=
com">pkampana@cisco.com</a>)<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [mile] Documenting DomainData<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Hi Roman,<o:p></o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">I was able to dig up a=
n example from the group that was proposing the addition of RelatedDNS to t=
he DomainData class that was added from RFC5901.&nbsp; Panos may have other=
 examples planned for the IODEF Guidance
 document.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">I think as long as the=
 data of other records can be included, the intent will be met for the requ=
estors.&nbsp; See the attached example and I am sure a proposal that alters=
 it, but provides the ability to include
 that information would be fine.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Anyone else?<o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Kathleen<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> Roman D.=
 Danyliw [<a href=3D"mailto:rdd@cert.org">mailto:rdd@cert.org</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, January 20, 2014 5:04 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Moriarty, Kathleen; <a href=3D"mailto:mile@ietf.org">mile@ietf.o=
rg</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [mile] Documenting DomainData<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Hello!<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Understood on #1 and #=
3.&nbsp; I still need a little more clarification on your answer to questio=
n #2, &#8220;RelatedDNS lets you add any record type to expand out what is =
possible from the Domain data class.&nbsp; You can also
 list what type of record you are including.&#8221;&nbsp; To restate, Relat=
edDNS represents DNS records for a domain specified in DomainData/Name?&nbs=
p; If so, what exactly goes into the element content of RelatedDNS which is=
 defined as xs:string?&nbsp; For example, if I had an
 AXFR record (&lt;RelatedDNS RecordType=3D&#8221;AXRF&#8221;&gt;) how would=
 this be encoded?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Since Node/DomainData/=
DateDomainWasChecked represents when Node/DomainData/Name was resolved (whe=
re the IP address is stored in Node/Address), is there a similar construct =
for these other record types in RelatedDNS?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Roman<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> Moriarty=
, Kathleen [<a href=3D"mailto:kathleen.moriarty@emc.com">mailto:kathleen.mo=
riarty@emc.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, January 20, 2014 8:48 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Roman D. Danyliw; <a href=3D"mailto:mile@ietf.org">mile@ietf.org=
</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [mile] Documenting DomainData<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Hi Roman,<o:p></o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">#1 I thought the answe=
r was yes, but it would be good to hear if anyone thinks it is too much det=
ail now.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">#2 RelatedDNS lets you=
 add any record type to expand out what is possible from the Domain data cl=
ass.&nbsp; You can also list what type of record you are including.<o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">#3 I don&#8217;t think=
 there is a concern in adjusting the names for consistency.<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Kathleen<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> mile [<a=
 href=3D"mailto:mile-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:mile-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Roman D. Danyliw<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, January 17, 2014 9:32 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:mile@ietf.org">mile@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [mile] Documenting DomainData<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hello!<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Since being copied from RFC5901 into 5070bis, Domain=
Data has evolved.&nbsp; Currently the two definition differ as follows:<o:p=
></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">** 5070bis added DomainData@{indicator-uid, indicato=
r-set-id}<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">** 5070bis added DomainData/RelatedDNS<o:p></o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">** 5070bis uses iodef:Contact for DomainData/DomainC=
ontacts/Contact instead of phish:Contact which added classes and attributes=
 to Contact<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">A few questions:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">(1) Since bits and pieces were added and modified in=
 the cut-and-paste from 5901, is there agreement that we don&#8217;t need t=
o remove anything from DomainData?&nbsp; Do we want to represent this level=
 of detail in the core IODEF data model?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">(2) RelatedDNS was added to DomainData and is not pr=
esent in RFC5901.&nbsp; There is no descriptive text.&nbsp; Could someone s=
hed light on the purpose of this class.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">(3) The attributes DomainData@{SystemStatus, DomainS=
tatus} and RelatedDNS@RecordType don't follow the naming convention of lowe=
r case names separated by a hyphen.&nbsp; As in other cases where classes h=
ave been moved, I would be inclined to
 rename the attributes.&nbsp; Any concern in doing that?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Roman<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_359EC4B99E040048A7131E0F4E113AFC54C2C29Dmarathon_--

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From: "Waltermire, David A." <david.waltermire@nist.gov>
To: "Moriarty, Kathleen" <kathleen.moriarty@emc.com>, "Roman D. Danyliw" <rdd@cert.org>, "mile@ietf.org" <mile@ietf.org>
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Subject: [mile] CPE and SWID
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Changing the subject to reflect the discussion thread.

I just saw this message. Here is what I can vouch for as the NIST lead for =
these efforts:

NIST is continuing to support CPE as it has for the last few years. SCAP an=
d a few other efforts are dependent on it, so this is critical. It has not =
been defunded.

NIST is working with the SWID community to advance the ISO specification ef=
forts and to ensure that the necessary implementation guidance for SWID tag=
 producers and tool consumers is put in place.

We see SWID tags as having synergies with the CPE effort. We are looking at=
 methods to consume SWID tags, as software publishers create them, for use =
in auto generating CPEs. This has significant advantages over the current C=
PE methodology that largely involves investigating vulnerability reports an=
d vendor product pages and documentation to generate CPE names. By generati=
ng CPE names in this way we can increase the fidelity and accuracy of the p=
roduct data, using less human effort, making product identification informa=
tion available as close to the publication of the software as possible.

Our long-term plans are to maintain a mapping between SWID and CPE in the N=
ational Vulnerability Database. This information does not exist yet, but is=
 in the planning stages. Such information will provide a transition path fo=
r the SCAP community and other that use CPE today to take greater advantage=
s of the information that SWID offer including: a more robust product metad=
ata model and footprint information including file names, versions, and has=
hes.

Please let me know if you have any questions.

Thanks,
Dave



> -----Original Message-----
> From: mile [mailto:mile-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Moriarty, Kathleen
> Sent: Monday, January 27, 2014 5:40 PM
> To: Roman D. Danyliw; mile@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [mile] @user-agent attribute
>=20
> CPE isn't funded anymore and may get folded in SWID.  I don't have the
> latest on this, but would not want to rely on something that may go away.=
  Is
> anyone aware of the latest on CPE?
>=20
> Thanks,
> Kathleen
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mile [mailto:mile-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Roman D. Danyliw
> Sent: Monday, January 27, 2014 3:22 PM
> To: mile@ietf.org
> Subject: [mile] @user-agent attribute
>=20
> Hello!
>=20
> The -04 schema of 5070bis has the following comment in the definition of
> @user-agent in the Application and OperatingSystem classes.
>=20
> [begin comment]
> "<!-- CHANGE: Should UserAgent or HTTPUserAgent fit in SoftwareTypes?
> This is typically intended to mean servers, but the category seems more
> appropriate than others.-->"
> [end comment]
>=20
> SoftwareType is the complexType used to define System/Application and
> Service/OperatingSystem.  Lacking documentation in the text and going onl=
y
> on the name in the schema, it would appear that this attribute is attempt=
ing
> to describe the "User-Agent" HTTP field per Section 14.43 of RFC2616.  If
> there is a broader definition, could someone please talk us through it.
>=20
> With the addition of the Service/ApplicationHeader there appear to be two
> ways to represent a User-Agent.  Consider the following XML snippet below=
:
>=20
> <System>...
> <Service ip_protocol=3D"80">
> ... <ApplicationHeader proto=3D"80" field=3D"User-Agent"
> dtype=3D"string">Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.2; Win64; x64)
> AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/32.0.1667.0
> Safari/537.36</ApplicationApplication>
>=20
> ... <Application swid=3D"xxx" configid=3D"xxx" vendor=3D"Google"
> name=3D"Chrome" user-agent=3D"Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.2; Win64; x64)
> AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/32.0.1667.0 Safari/537.36"
> version=3D"32.0.11667"> <URL>something</URL> </Application> </Service>
> </System>
>=20
> A few questions:
> ** Does the data model need the @user-agent attribute if
> ApplicationHeader can model it?
> ** Could @swid (defined as "An identifier that can be used to reference t=
his
> software") be used for a User-Agent?
> ** What implementation guidance should be given about how @user-agent
> should be set with Service/OperatingSystem?
>=20
> To share my own bias, the Application and OperatingSystem Class are
> currently very poorly specified.  I don't think we should continue improv=
ing
> them.  Instead, we should reference software through CPE
> (http://nvd.nist.gov/cpe.cfm) or similar effort as is possible through th=
e SCI-
> defined class Platform.  For the time being, I would drop @user-agent.
>=20
> Roman
> _______________________________________________
> mile mailing list
> mile@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mile
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> mile mailing list
> mile@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mile

From blibbet@gmail.com  Wed Feb  5 14:08:47 2014
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Subject: Re: [mile] CPE and SWID
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 > Please let me know if you have any questions.

Will this long-term mapping between SWID and CPE mean that we can ignore 
SWID and just use CPE?

Will I have to pay and/or join the SWID trade group to access this 
information? MITRE and NIST were goot at SCAP standards, making their 
data and schemas available without the extra licenses and registration 
barriers and fees. Do you have to pay ISO for access to their SWID 
standards? The last time a TagVault evangelist came on this list to push 
SWID, they failed to make any case for noncommercial use of SWID.
http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/sacm/current/msg00679.html

SWID adds barriers, that'll make it difficult to create open source 
software, especially Free Software, that uses SCAP/SACM.

Does it still cost US$500/year for an individual to use CPE. The only 
"Open Source" Microsoft mentions when they defend SWID is an internal 
project (WIX), where they fund all the fees for it.

This sounds bad. SCAP/SACM should not use CPE.



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Sorry, I mistyped two things in my last message.

 > MITRE and NIST were goot at SCAP standards, ...

/goot/good

NIST/SCAP/IETF are good at making standards, ...

 > SCAP/SACM should not use CPE.

/CPE/SWID.

SCAP/SACM should not use SWID.

(CPE should be used.
SWID adds to many barriers and restrictions.)

Thanks.




From trammell@tik.ee.ethz.ch  Sun Feb  9 23:43:29 2014
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Greetings, all,

Please send requests for agenda slots in London to =
ippm-chairs@tools.ietf.org by Thursday, February 13. FYI, The MILE =
meeting is presently scheduled for 11:50 Friday 7 March.

Many thanks, best regards,

Brian

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Thanks for sending this out and I have a slight correction, please send the
requests to mile-chairs@tools.ietf.org

Best regards,
Kathleen


On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 2:43 AM, Brian Trammell <trammell@tik.ee.ethz.ch>wrote:

> Greetings, all,
>
> Please send requests for agenda slots in London to
> ippm-chairs@tools.ietf.org by Thursday, February 13. FYI, The MILE
> meeting is presently scheduled for 11:50 Friday 7 March.
>
> Many thanks, best regards,
>
> Brian
>
> _______________________________________________
> mile mailing list
> mile@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mile
>
>


-- 

Best regards,
Kathleen

--001a11343898ffa25f04f20ed202
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<div dir="ltr">Thanks for sending this out and I have a slight correction, please send the requests to <a href="mailto:mile-chairs@tools.ietf.org">mile-chairs@tools.ietf.org</a><div><br></div><div>Best regards,</div><div>Kathleen</div>
</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 2:43 AM, Brian Trammell <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:trammell@tik.ee.ethz.ch" target="_blank">trammell@tik.ee.ethz.ch</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Greetings, all,<br>
<br>
Please send requests for agenda slots in London to <a href="mailto:ippm-chairs@tools.ietf.org">ippm-chairs@tools.ietf.org</a> by Thursday, February 13. FYI, The MILE meeting is presently scheduled for 11:50 Friday 7 March.<br>

<br>
Many thanks, best regards,<br>
<br>
Brian<br>
<br>_______________________________________________<br>
mile mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:mile@ietf.org">mile@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mile" target="_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mile</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr"><br><div>Best regards,</div><div>Kathleen</div></div>
</div>

--001a11343898ffa25f04f20ed202--

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Greetings, all,=20

Indeed, apologies for the copy-paste error (and thanks Kathleen for the =
correction).

Best regards,

Brian

On 10 Feb 2014, at 16:16, Kathleen Moriarty =
<kathleen.moriarty.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:

> Thanks for sending this out and I have a slight correction, please =
send the requests to mile-chairs@tools.ietf.org
>=20
> Best regards,
> Kathleen
>=20
>=20
> On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 2:43 AM, Brian Trammell =
<trammell@tik.ee.ethz.ch> wrote:
> Greetings, all,
>=20
> Please send requests for agenda slots in London to =
ippm-chairs@tools.ietf.org by Thursday, February 13. FYI, The MILE =
meeting is presently scheduled for 11:50 Friday 7 March.
>=20
> Many thanks, best regards,
>=20
> Brian
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> mile mailing list
> mile@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mile
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> --=20
>=20
> Best regards,
> Kathleen


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<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=iso-8859-1"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;">Greetings, all,&nbsp;<div><br></div><div>Indeed, apologies for the copy-paste error (and thanks Kathleen for the correction).</div><div><br></div><div>Best regards,</div><div><br></div><div>Brian</div><div><br><div><div>On 10 Feb 2014, at 16:16, Kathleen Moriarty &lt;<a href="mailto:kathleen.moriarty.ietf@gmail.com">kathleen.moriarty.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr">Thanks for sending this out and I have a slight correction, please send the requests to <a href="mailto:mile-chairs@tools.ietf.org">mile-chairs@tools.ietf.org</a><div><br></div><div>Best regards,</div><div>Kathleen</div>
</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 2:43 AM, Brian Trammell <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:trammell@tik.ee.ethz.ch" target="_blank">trammell@tik.ee.ethz.ch</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Greetings, all,<br>
<br>
Please send requests for agenda slots in London to <a href="mailto:ippm-chairs@tools.ietf.org">ippm-chairs@tools.ietf.org</a> by Thursday, February 13. FYI, The MILE meeting is presently scheduled for 11:50 Friday 7 March.<br>

<br>
Many thanks, best regards,<br>
<br>
Brian<br>
<br>_______________________________________________<br>
mile mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:mile@ietf.org">mile@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mile" target="_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mile</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr"><br><div>Best regards,</div><div>Kathleen</div></div>
</div>
</blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>
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From david.waltermire@nist.gov  Mon Feb 10 11:57:52 2014
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From: "Waltermire, David A." <david.waltermire@nist.gov>
To: Blibbet <blibbet@gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: [mile] CPE and SWID
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Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2014 19:57:46 +0000
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Blibbet,

I don't think we can simply ignore SWIDs. In my personal opinion, SWIDs hav=
e many advantages over CPEs including:

- Providing authoritative, high-fidelity software data generated at build t=
ime by the software creator/publisher. CPEs are commonly generated by 3rd p=
arties in a labor intensive way by scraping vendor websites and vulnerabili=
ty bulletins for software data that is often incomplete and inaccurate.
- Providing more robust software metadata that goes beyond the 11 fields su=
pported by CPE including tags/identification for patches which CPE doesn't =
support.
- Normalizing the data representation for installed software on endpoints r=
egardless of platform/software specific technologies.
- Providing software footprint details including composite files, versions,=
 and hashes. This is not something that CPE supports.

Simply put, SWIDs provide greater support for the management of software ac=
ross the deployment lifecycle than CPE allows for. This has both security a=
nd IT operational benefits. SWIDs allow for greater coverage and address th=
e scalability concerns that currently exist with CPE.

With SWID there is not a requirement to pay or join any trade group to part=
icipate. Software publishers are responsible for the creation and propagati=
on of SWID tags they produce. There is not a requirement to centrally curat=
e them like there is with the US Government curated CPE dictionary.

The ISO specification is behind a paywall, which is the ISO model for publi=
cation. The IETF and ISO both reference each other's specifications. This s=
hould not be a significant barrier.

The schema is freely available. You can access it here:

http://standards.iso.org/iso/19770/-2/2009/schema.xsd

TagVault is developing best practice guides and certification requirements =
to help interested software publishers to demonstrate the degree of informa=
tion provided by a publisher's SWID tags to support various use cases. They=
 have stated publically that they intend to make these documents publically=
 available as they are produced. Participation in TagVault is not a require=
ment for SWID tag publication; it is simply a value added service for publi=
shers and consumers if they choose to participate.

I know of no US$500/year cost for use of CPE. Current CPE information is pr=
ovided for use on a voluntary basis at no cost to the consumer at:

http://nvd.nist.gov/cpe.cfm

I hope this helps address your questions/concerns.

Sincerely,
Dave

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Blibbet [mailto:blibbet@gmail.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2014 5:13 PM
> To: Waltermire, David A.
> Cc: mile@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [mile] CPE and SWID
>=20
>  > Please let me know if you have any questions.
>=20
> Will this long-term mapping between SWID and CPE mean that we can ignore
> SWID and just use CPE?
>=20
> Will I have to pay and/or join the SWID trade group to access this
> information? MITRE and NIST were goot at SCAP standards, making their dat=
a
> and schemas available without the extra licenses and registration barrier=
s
> and fees. Do you have to pay ISO for access to their SWID standards? The =
last
> time a TagVault evangelist came on this list to push SWID, they failed to=
 make
> any case for noncommercial use of SWID.
> http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/sacm/current/msg00679.html
>=20
> SWID adds barriers, that'll make it difficult to create open source softw=
are,
> especially Free Software, that uses SCAP/SACM.
>=20
> Does it still cost US$500/year for an individual to use CPE. The only "Op=
en
> Source" Microsoft mentions when they defend SWID is an internal project
> (WIX), where they fund all the fees for it.
>=20
> This sounds bad. SCAP/SACM should not use CPE.
>=20


From tony@yaanatech.com  Mon Feb 10 16:48:30 2014
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Cc: "mile@ietf.org" <mile@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [mile] CPE and SWID
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Dave,

Across multiple bodies and companies, the
notion of SWIDs has been DOA.  Why is
it still being pursued here?

--tony


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From: "Roman D. Danyliw" <rdd@cert.org>
To: "mile@ietf.org" <mile@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [mile] Describing the time window during which an indicator should	be used
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--_000_359EC4B99E040048A7131E0F4E113AFC54C39D29marathon_
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Hello all!

I'm checking in with the group to hear if the proposal outlined below addre=
sses the need of the community per Issue #28 (http://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg=
/mile/trac/ticket/28).  Does it satisfy the need?

Roman

From: mile [mailto:mile-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Roman D. Danyliw
Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2014 9:20 PM
To: Eric Burger
Cc: mile@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [mile] Describing the time window during which an indicator sh=
ould be used

I see your perspective Eric. Let's talk through a little more about how we =
could use this fifth indicator attribute, perhaps calling it "indicator-per=
sistent" for the moment.  It seems like we'd end up in one of the following=
 situations:

(1) known start time and end time for an indicator (i.e., only look for the=
 indicator during the described interval)
(2) known start time for an indicator (i.e., look for the indicator indefin=
itely after the start time)
(3) known end time (i.e., an indicator won't be valid after a certain time =
so look for it only before an end time)
(4) unknown start or end time (i.e., look for the indicator on any data you=
 have)

Do we want to deal with all of them?  Are there others?  If we did want to =
cover all cases perhaps we could define @indicator-persistent as an ENUM:

"start" =3D assume that the indicator is valid up to the provided @indicato=
r-end-time.  If this value is selected, @indicator-end-time must be set and=
 @indicator-start must not be set.
"end" =3D assume that the indicator is valid indefinitely starting from the=
 provided @indicator-start-time.  If this value is selected, @indicator-sta=
rt-time value must be set and @indicator-end-time value must not be set.
"defined" =3D assume that the indicator is valid between the specified @ind=
icator-start-time and @indicator-end-time.  If this value is selected both =
the @indicator-start-time and @indicator-end-time must be set.
"unknown" =3D assume that the indicator can be valid during any time period=
.  If this value is selected both @indicator-start-time and @indicator-end-=
time must not be set.  This is the default.

Roman

From: Eric Burger [mailto:eburger@cs.georgetown.edu]
Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2014 11:45 AM
To: Roman D. Danyliw
Cc: mile@ietf.org<mailto:mile@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [mile] Describing the time window during which an indicator sh=
ould be used

Say what we mean. We are already paying the XML tax, so a fifth attribute d=
oes not really 'cost' us anything. I can guarantee that we will have more p=
roblems than a Year 3000 problem if we overload indicator-etime.

On Jan 15, 2014, at 11:02 AM, Roman D. Danyliw <rdd@cert.org<mailto:rdd@cer=
t.org>> wrote:

Hi,

I'd like to explore the community thinking on how to implement a flag as Ch=
ris suggested to note that an indicator is persistent.  Assuming that the c=
onvention of @indicator-stime and -etime was adopted, a few possibilities t=
o add a "persistence flag" would be:

(1) Add a boolean attribute, say @indicator-persistent, to convey to always=
 look for this indicator.  No @indicator-etime would be required.

(2) Define a particular date far into the future for @indicator-etime that =
conveys persistence.  For example, when @indicator-etime=3D"3000/12/01 12:0=
0:00"  is seen, this indicator is persistent.

Option #1 is most intuitively self-describing but adds another attribute, n=
ow the fifth, to the list of "special indicator attributes".

Option #2 reduces the number of additional attributes.

Personally, I prefer #2.  Your thoughts?

Roman

From: Harrington, Christopher [mailto:Christopher.Harrington@emc.com]
Sent: Monday, January 13, 2014 8:18 AM
To: Roman D. Danyliw; Stoecker, Paul
Cc: mile@ietf.org<mailto:mile@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [mile] Describing the time window during which an indicator sh=
ould be used

Roman,

>From what I have seen the aging is usually up to the recipient. I would say=
 that option #1 would be better.

For purposes of deciding to stop looking for an indicator there is another =
data point that is used far more frequently, Last Seen time. For the majori=
ty of indicators we use the time it was last "seen". For us the "seen" mean=
s that either we have seen it being used or we have intel from a 3rd party =
or open source that it is still in use. The only time we use the stime-etim=
e paradigm is when there is an infection (delivery stage of the Kill Chain)=
 that was valid but later cleaned up. Nbc.com<http://nbc.com/> was compromi=
sed last year for about 4 hours then cleaned up. In that case we would use =
stime-etime. There are indicators that we call persistent. These are indica=
tors that we will never stop looking for. These could be indicators that ar=
e used exclusively by a specific threat actor (like a domain registered by =
an actor) or something that we used in a previous incident at our organizat=
ion, like RSA breech related indicators. A construct to flag an indicator a=
s persistent would be helpful as this is information is something we routin=
ely share.

Thanks,

--Chris

From: Roman D. Danyliw [mailto:rdd@cert.org]
Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2014 4:59 PM
To: Harrington, Christopher; Stoecker, Paul
Cc: mile@ietf.org<mailto:mile@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [mile] Describing the time window during which an indicator sh=
ould be used

Hello!

Chris: Thanks for the background!

To date, the message traffic suggests interest in per-indicator annotation =
of validity.  That would suggest something as follows:

<Assessment indicator-uid=3D"foo-12345" indicator-stime=3D"2013/12/01 12:00=
:00">
Or
<Assessment indicator-uid=3D"foo-12345" indicator-stime=3D"2013/12/01 12:00=
:00" indicator-etime=3D"2013/12/01 13:00:00"-->

The follow-up discuss asked if organizations really every stop looking for =
indicators they have.  One answer was yes.

How do we want to handle that?  Ideas might include:

(1) provide only an @indicator-stime and @indicator-etime, and these are th=
e best guess of the reporter of how long to make it valid.  The recipient c=
an decide how and if to honor these.

(2) provide another attribute that would suggest an aging policy that the r=
ecipient can choose to honor.  What would we those aging policies?

Roman


From: Harrington, Christopher [mailto:Christopher.Harrington@emc.com]
Sent: Monday, December 23, 2013 10:46 AM
To: Stoecker, Paul
Cc: Roman D. Danyliw; mile@ietf.org<mailto:mile@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [mile] Describing the time window during which an indicator sh=
ould be used

Yes we do stop looking. A good example is when NBC.com<http://nbc.com/> got=
 hacked a few months ago. We watched for people hitting it while the URL wa=
s malicious. Once it was cleaned up we stopped watching for it since it was=
 a somewhat popular  URL that would fire all the time and bury us in false =
positives.

Indicator aging is an area that nobody has a good handle one. Each organiza=
tion seems to have their own way of doing things with aging, if they do any=
thing at all. Some commercial threat intel providers use a decrementing cou=
nter based on the last time the indicator was seen. At EMC we make the agin=
g calculation based on time since last seen, attribution (if known), kill c=
hain stage, confidence in the source  and other factors. It's not automated=
 at this point.

We can't keep all indicators forever. At some point the watch lists and blo=
ck lists on your Proxy, firewall, etc get too large and the devices start h=
aving issues. We ran into this at EMC and had to switch from Proxy blocks f=
or domains to DNS RPZ with a sinkhole web servers. There were too many doma=
ins in the proxy block list. We have tens of thousands. There are indicator=
s that we consider "persistent". These are indicators that we always want t=
o be alerted about. Generally these are advanced threat / APT and have eith=
er been seen in activity involving EMC or they belong to threat actor group=
s that we have seen at EMC.

Thanks,

--Chris

From: Stoecker, Paul
Sent: Monday, December 23, 2013 10:26 AM
To: Harrington, Christopher
Cc: Roman D. Danyliw; mile@ietf.org<mailto:mile@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [mile] Describing the time window during which an indicator sh=
ould be used

I have a question...Do we really stop looking for IOCs whose time has expir=
ed?  Like a malicious URL whose time has expired...do you stop looking for =
that URL?  Let's say that Paul the malware dude got a hold of the IODEF doc=
ument...I shutdown my web server and after the time expired I turned it bac=
k on?

Just wondering how IOC aging is actually handled?

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 20, 2013, at 4:57 PM, "Harrington, Christopher" <Christopher.Harring=
ton@emc.com<mailto:Christopher.Harrington@emc.com>> wrote:
Hello,

Answers inline below.

Thanks,

--Chris

Christopher Harrington
Consulting Security Engineer
GSO - Critical Incident Response Center
EMC
174 Middlesex Turnpike
Bedford, MA 01730
781-515-5862 (work)
603-583-1585 (cell)

From: mile [mailto:mile-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Roman D. Danyliw
Sent: Friday, December 20, 2013 4:26 PM
To: mile@ietf.org<mailto:mile@ietf.org>
Subject: [mile] Describing the time window during which an indicator should=
 be used

Hello!

Ticket #28 (http://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/mile/trac/ticket/28) is tracking =
the need to convey the valid time during which to apply an indicator.  I wa=
nted to solicit from the community the degree of flexibility desired.  For =
the purposes of this discussion an indicator is defined as a class that has=
 an @indicator-uid attribute.

** Does this flexibility need to exist on a per indicator basis?
Example 1, <Assessment indicator-uid=3D"foo-12345" indicator-valid-stime=3D=
"2013/12/01 12:00:00">
Yes, a malicious URL would be valid only as long as it is live.

** Could it be at the EventData level (and the time window cascades to all =
indicators that are children)?
Example 2:, <EventData indicator-stime=3D"2013/12/01 12:00:00"> ... <Flow> =
... many domain indicators </Flow> ... </EventData>
Example 3: <EventData>  ... <IndicatorStartTime>2013/12/01 12:00:00</Indica=
torStartTime> ... <Flow> ... many domain indicators </Flow> ... </EventData=
>
Yes, you could have multiple malware delivery URLs that are all on the same=
 domain. If the Domain is specified at EvenData level then when it is no lo=
nger valid the children would no longer be valid. I hope I explained that r=
ight :)  I am not sure how it would differ between Example 2 and 3.

** Could it be at the Incident level?
Example 4: <Incident>  ... <IndicatorStartTime>2013/12/01 12:00:00</Indicat=
orStartTime> ... many domain indicators </Flow> ... </Incident>
If there was only one Indicator in an incident it could be. In practical te=
rms this is very unlikely.

Per indicator time information would provide the most flexibility but would=
 require duplication of the same information.

A time window for indicator validity specified at the Incident level would =
not allow for multiple time windows per indicator.

A time window for indicator validity specified in the EventData class would=
 require nested EventData instances to convey different time period.  Also,=
 some indicators are only in the Incident class so this approach would be i=
nsufficient.  Perhaps a hybrid approach where this timing information is in=
 the EventData and IncidentData classes could be possible.

Personally I think the safest approach is validity per Indicator.  Validity=
 for parent / child would be rare and validity per Incident even rarer.

One question, how do we represent "still valid"? If I have an indicator tha=
t is valid when I send the message how do I know what that time represents?=
  If I put "12/20/2013 13:00" as the time can you tell if I mean that it wa=
s still valid when I sent the message at that time or that its validity per=
iod ended at that time. Those are very different scenarios and critically i=
mportant for searching / responding to indicator hits.

Roman

_______________________________________________
mile mailing list
mile@ietf.org<mailto:mile@ietf.org>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mile
_______________________________________________
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mile@ietf.org<mailto:mile@ietf.org>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mile


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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Hello all!<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">I&#8217;m checking in wit=
h the group to hear if the proposal outlined below addresses the need of th=
e community per Issue #28 (<a href=3D"http://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/mile/tr=
ac/ticket/28">http://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/mile/trac/ticket/28</a>).&nbsp;
 Does it satisfy the need?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Roman<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> mile [ma=
ilto:mile-bounces@ietf.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Roman D. Danyliw<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, January 23, 2014 9:20 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Eric Burger<br>
<b>Cc:</b> mile@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [mile] Describing the time window during which an indic=
ator should be used<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">I see your perspective Er=
ic. Let&#8217;s talk through a little more about how we could use this fift=
h indicator attribute, perhaps calling it &#8220;indicator-persistent&#8221=
;
 for the moment.&nbsp; It seems like we&#8217;d end up in one of the follow=
ing situations:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">(1) known start time and =
end time for an indicator (i.e., only look for the indicator during the des=
cribed interval)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">(2) known start time for =
an indicator (i.e., look for the indicator indefinitely after the start tim=
e)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">(3) known end time (i.e.,=
 an indicator won&#8217;t be valid after a certain time so look for it only=
 before an end time)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">(4) unknown start or end =
time (i.e., look for the indicator on any data you have)<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Do we want to deal with a=
ll of them?&nbsp; Are there others?&nbsp; If we did want to cover all cases=
 perhaps we could define @indicator-persistent as an ENUM:<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&#8220;start&#8221; =3D a=
ssume that the indicator is valid up to the provided @indicator-end-time.&n=
bsp; If this value is selected, @indicator-end-time must be set and @indica=
tor-start
 must not be set.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&#8220;end&#8221; =3D ass=
ume that the indicator is valid indefinitely starting from the provided @in=
dicator-start-time.&nbsp; If this value is selected, @indicator-start-time
 value must be set and @indicator-end-time value must not be set.<o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&#8220;defined&#8221; =3D=
 assume that the indicator is valid between the specified @indicator-start-=
time and @indicator-end-time.&nbsp; If this value is selected both the @ind=
icator-start-time
 and @indicator-end-time must be set.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&#8220;unknown&#8221; =3D=
 assume that the indicator can be valid during any time period.&nbsp; If th=
is value is selected both @indicator-start-time and @indicator-end-time mus=
t
 not be set.&nbsp; This is the default.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Roman<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"> Eric Bur=
ger [<a href=3D"mailto:eburger@cs.georgetown.edu">mailto:eburger@cs.georget=
own.edu</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, January 23, 2014 11:45 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Roman D. Danyliw<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:mile@ietf.org">mile@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [mile] Describing the time window during which an indic=
ator should be used<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Say what we mean. We are already paying the XML tax,=
 so a fifth attribute does not really &#8216;cost&#8217; us anything. I can=
 guarantee that we will have more problems than a Year 3000 problem if we o=
verload indicator-etime.<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Jan 15, 2014, at 11:02 AM, Roman D. Danyliw &lt;<=
a href=3D"mailto:rdd@cert.org">rdd@cert.org</a>&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Hi,</span><span style=3D"=
font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span style=
=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;=
"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">I&#8217;d like to explore=
 the community thinking on how to implement a flag as Chris suggested to no=
te that an indicator is persistent.&nbsp; Assuming that the convention
 of @</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;=
,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">indicator-stime<span class=3D"apple-converted-spac=
e"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span></span><span style=3D"color:#=
1F497D">and &#8211;etime was adopted, a few possibilities to add a &#8220;p=
ersistence
 flag&#8221; would be:</span><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span style=
=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;=
"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">(1) Add a boolean attribu=
te, say @indicator-persistent, to convey to always look for this indicator.=
&nbsp; No @indicator-etime would be required.</span><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span style=
=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;=
"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">(2) Define a particular d=
ate far into the future for @indicator-etime that conveys persistence.&nbsp=
; For example, when @indicator-etime=3D&#8221;</span><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">3000/12/0=
1
 12:00:00&#8221; &nbsp;is seen, this indicator is persistent.<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Option #1 is most intuitively self-desc=
ribing but adds another attribute, now the fifth, to the list of &#8220;spe=
cial indicator attributes&#8221;.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Option #2 reduces the number of additio=
nal attributes.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Personally, I prefer #2.&nbsp; Your tho=
ughts?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Roman<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span style=
=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;=
"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span class=3D"apple-=
converted-space"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&q=
uot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&nbsp;</span></span><span style=3D"font-size:1=
0.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Harrington,
 Christopher [<a href=3D"mailto:Christopher.Harrington@emc.com"><span style=
=3D"color:purple">mailto:Christopher.Harrington@emc.com</span></a>]<span cl=
ass=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Monday, Janu=
ary 13, 2014 8:18 AM<br>
<b>To:</b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Roman D. Danyl=
iw; Stoecker, Paul<br>
<b>Cc:</b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a href=3D"mai=
lto:mile@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:purple">mile@ietf.org</span></a><br=
>
<b>Subject:</b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>RE: [mile=
] Describing the time window during which an indicator should be used</span=
><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans=
-serif&quot;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Roman,</span><span style=
=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;=
"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span style=
=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;=
"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">From what I have seen the=
 aging is usually up to the recipient. I would say that option #1 would be =
better.</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quo=
t;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span style=
=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;=
"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">For purposes of deciding =
to stop looking for an indicator there is another data point that is used f=
ar more frequently, Last Seen time. For the majority of
 indicators we use the time it was last &#8220;seen&#8221;. For us the &#82=
20;seen&#8221; means that either we have seen it being used or we have inte=
l from a 3<sup>rd</sup><span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>p=
arty or open source that it is still in use. The only time we use
 the stime-etime paradigm is when there is an infection (delivery stage of =
the Kill Chain) that was valid but later cleaned up.<span class=3D"apple-co=
nverted-space">&nbsp;</span><a href=3D"http://nbc.com/"><span style=3D"colo=
r:purple">Nbc.com</span></a><span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</s=
pan>was
 compromised last year for about 4 hours then cleaned up. In that case we w=
ould use stime-etime. There are indicators that we call persistent. These a=
re indicators that we will never stop looking for. These could be indicator=
s that are used exclusively by a
 specific threat actor (like a domain registered by an actor) or something =
that we used in a previous incident at our organization, like RSA breech re=
lated indicators. A construct to flag an indicator as persistent would be h=
elpful as this is information is
 something we routinely share.</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span style=
=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;=
"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Thanks,</span><span style=
=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;=
"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span style=
=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;=
"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">--Chris</span><span style=
=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;=
"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span style=
=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;=
"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span class=3D"apple-=
converted-space"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&q=
uot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&nbsp;</span></span><span style=3D"font-size:1=
0.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Roman
 D. Danyliw [<a href=3D"mailto:rdd@cert.org"><span style=3D"color:purple">m=
ailto:rdd@cert.org</span></a>]<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;<=
/span><br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Thursday, Ja=
nuary 09, 2014 4:59 PM<br>
<b>To:</b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Harrington, Ch=
ristopher; Stoecker, Paul<br>
<b>Cc:</b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a href=3D"mai=
lto:mile@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:purple">mile@ietf.org</span></a><br=
>
<b>Subject:</b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>RE: [mile=
] Describing the time window during which an indicator should be used</span=
><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans=
-serif&quot;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Hello!</span><span style=
=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;=
"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span style=
=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;=
"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Chris: Thanks for the bac=
kground!</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&qu=
ot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span style=
=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;=
"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">To date, the message traf=
fic suggests interest in per-indicator annotation of validity.&nbsp; That w=
ould suggest something as follows:</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span style=
=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;=
"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&lt;Assessment indicator-uid=3D&#8221;f=
oo-12345&#8221; indicator-stime=3D&#8221;2013/12/01 12:00:00&#8221;&gt;<o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Or<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&lt;Assessment indicator-uid=3D&#8221;f=
oo-12345&#8221; indicator-stime=3D&#8221;2013/12/01 12:00:00&#8221; indicat=
or-etime=3D&#8221;2013/12/01 13:00:00&#8221;--&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">The follow-up discuss asked if organiza=
tions really every stop looking for indicators they have.&nbsp; One answer =
was yes.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">How do we want to handle that?&nbsp; Id=
eas might include:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">(1) provide only an @indicator-stime an=
d @indicator-etime, and these are the best guess of the reporter of how lon=
g to make it valid.&nbsp; The recipient can decide how and if
 to honor these.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">(2) provide another attribute that woul=
d suggest an aging policy that the recipient can choose to honor.&nbsp; Wha=
t would we those aging policies?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Roman</span><span style=
=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;=
"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span style=
=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;=
"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span style=
=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;=
"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span class=3D"apple-=
converted-space"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&q=
uot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&nbsp;</span></span><span style=3D"font-size:1=
0.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Harrington,
 Christopher [</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cali=
bri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><a href=3D"mailto:Christopher.Harrington@=
emc.com"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&qu=
ot;sans-serif&quot;;color:purple">mailto:Christopher.Harrington@emc.com</sp=
an></a></span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot=
;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">]<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</sp=
an><br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Monday, Dece=
mber 23, 2013 10:46 AM<br>
<b>To:</b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Stoecker, Paul=
<br>
<b>Cc:</b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Roman D. Danyl=
iw;<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><span style=3D=
"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><=
a href=3D"mailto:mile@ietf.org"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family=
:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:purple">mile@ietf.org</spa=
n></a></span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;=
,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><br>
<b>Subject:</b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>RE: [mile=
] Describing the time window during which an indicator should be used</span=
><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans=
-serif&quot;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Yes we do stop looking. A=
 good example is when<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"http://nbc.com/"><span style=3D"color:purple">NBC.com</span></a><sp=
an class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>got
 hacked a few months ago. We watched for people hitting it while the URL wa=
s malicious. Once it was cleaned up we stopped watching for it since it was=
 a somewhat popular&nbsp; URL that would fire all the time and bury us in f=
alse positives.</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span style=
=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;=
"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Indicator aging is an are=
a that nobody has a good handle one. Each organization seems to have their =
own way of doing things with aging, if they do anything
 at all. Some commercial threat intel providers use a decrementing counter =
based on the last time the indicator was seen. At EMC we make the aging cal=
culation based on time since last seen, attribution (if known), kill chain =
stage, confidence in the source
 &nbsp;and other factors. It&#8217;s not automated at this point.</span><sp=
an style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-ser=
if&quot;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span style=
=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;=
"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">We can&#8217;t keep all i=
ndicators forever. At some point the watch lists and block lists on your Pr=
oxy, firewall, etc get too large and the devices start having
 issues. We ran into this at EMC and had to switch from Proxy blocks for do=
mains to DNS RPZ with a sinkhole web servers. There were too many domains i=
n the proxy block list. We have tens of thousands. There are indicators tha=
t we consider &#8220;persistent&#8221;. These
 are indicators that we always want to be alerted about. Generally these ar=
e advanced threat / APT and have either been seen in activity involving EMC=
 or they belong to threat actor groups that we have seen at EMC.</span><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-seri=
f&quot;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span style=
=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;=
"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Thanks,</span><span style=
=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;=
"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span style=
=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;=
"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">--Chris</span><span style=
=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;=
"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span style=
=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;=
"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span class=3D"apple-=
converted-space"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&q=
uot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&nbsp;</span></span><span style=3D"font-size:1=
0.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Stoecker,
 Paul<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Monday, Dece=
mber 23, 2013 10:26 AM<br>
<b>To:</b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Harrington, Ch=
ristopher<br>
<b>Cc:</b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Roman D. Danyl=
iw;<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><span style=3D=
"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><=
a href=3D"mailto:mile@ietf.org"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family=
:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:purple">mile@ietf.org</spa=
n></a></span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;=
,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><br>
<b>Subject:</b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Re: [mile=
] Describing the time window during which an indicator should be used</span=
><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans=
-serif&quot;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">I have a question...Do we really stop l=
ooking for IOCs whose time has expired? &nbsp;Like a malicious URL whose ti=
me has expired...do you stop looking for that URL? &nbsp;Let's say
 that Paul the malware dude got a hold of the IODEF document...I shutdown m=
y web server and after the time expired I turned it back on?<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Just wondering how IOC aging is actuall=
y handled?<br>
<br>
Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><br>
On Dec 20, 2013, at 4:57 PM, &quot;Harrington, Christopher&quot; &lt;<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:Christopher.Harrington@emc.com"><span style=3D"color:purple">Ch=
ristopher.Harrington@emc.com</span></a>&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Hello,</span><span style=
=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;=
"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span style=
=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;=
"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Answers inline below.</sp=
an><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sa=
ns-serif&quot;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span style=
=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;=
"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Thanks,</span><span style=
=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;=
"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span style=
=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;=
"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">--Chris</span><span style=
=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;=
"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span style=
=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;=
"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Christopher Harrington<br=
>
Consulting Security Engineer<br>
GSO - Critical Incident Response Center<br>
EMC<br>
174 Middlesex Turnpike<br>
Bedford, MA 01730<br>
781-515-5862 (work)<br>
603-583-1585 (cell)</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span style=
=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;=
"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span class=3D"apple-=
converted-space"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&q=
uot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&nbsp;</span></span><span style=3D"font-size:1=
0.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">mile
 [</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&q=
uot;sans-serif&quot;"><a href=3D"mailto:mile-bounces@ietf.org"><span style=
=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;=
color:purple">mailto:mile-bounces@ietf.org</span></a></span><span style=3D"=
font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">]<s=
pan class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><b>On
 Behalf Of<span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></b>Roman D. D=
anyliw<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Friday, Dece=
mber 20, 2013 4:26 PM<br>
<b>To:</b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&q=
uot;"><a href=3D"mailto:mile@ietf.org"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font=
-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:purple">mile@ietf.o=
rg</span></a></span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahom=
a&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><br>
<b>Subject:</b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>[mile] De=
scribing the time window during which an indicator should be used</span><sp=
an style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-ser=
if&quot;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Hello!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Ticket #28 (<a href=3D"http://trac.tool=
s.ietf.org/wg/mile/trac/ticket/28"><span style=3D"color:purple">http://trac=
.tools.ietf.org/wg/mile/trac/ticket/28</span></a>) is tracking
 the need to convey the valid time during which to apply an indicator. &nbs=
p;I wanted to solicit from the community the degree of flexibility desired.=
&nbsp; For the purposes of this discussion an indicator is defined as a cla=
ss that has an @indicator-uid attribute.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">** Does this flexibility need to exist =
on a per indicator basis?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Example 1, &lt;Assessment indicator-uid=
=3D&#8221;foo-12345&#8221; indicator-valid-stime=3D&#8221;2013/12/01 12:00:=
00&#8221;&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Yes, a malicious URL woul=
d be valid only as long as it is live.</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0p=
t;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">** Could it be at the EventData level (=
and the time window cascades to all indicators that are children)?<o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Example 2:, &lt;EventData indicator-sti=
me=3D&#8221;2013/12/01 12:00:00&#8221;&gt; &#8230; &lt;Flow&gt; &#8230; man=
y domain indicators &lt;/Flow&gt; &#8230; &lt;/EventData&gt;<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Example 3: &lt;EventData&gt; &nbsp;&#82=
30; &lt;IndicatorStartTime&gt;2013/12/01 12:00:00&lt;/IndicatorStartTime&gt=
; &#8230; &lt;Flow&gt; &#8230; many domain indicators &lt;/Flow&gt; &#8230;=
 &lt;/EventData&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Yes, you could have multi=
ple malware delivery URLs that are all on the same domain. If the Domain is=
 specified at EvenData level then when it is no longer valid
 the children would no longer be valid. I hope I explained that right<span =
class=3D"apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></span><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D">J</span><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F=
497D">&nbsp;
 I am not sure how it would differ between Example 2 and 3.</span><span sty=
le=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quo=
t;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span style=
=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;=
"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">** Could it be at the Incident level?<o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Example 4: &lt;Incident&gt; &nbsp;&#823=
0; &lt;IndicatorStartTime&gt;2013/12/01 12:00:00&lt;/IndicatorStartTime&gt;=
 &#8230; many domain indicators &lt;/Flow&gt; &#8230; &lt;/Incident&gt;<o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">If there was only one Ind=
icator in an incident it could be. In practical terms this is very unlikely=
.</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&qu=
ot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Per indicator time information would pr=
ovide the most flexibility but would require duplication of the same inform=
ation.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">A time window for indicator validity sp=
ecified at the Incident level would not allow for multiple time windows per=
 indicator.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">A time window for indicator validity sp=
ecified in the EventData class would require nested EventData instances to =
convey different time period.&nbsp; Also, some indicators are
 only in the Incident class so this approach would be insufficient.&nbsp; P=
erhaps a hybrid approach where this timing information is in the EventData =
and IncidentData classes could be possible.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span style=
=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;=
"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Personally I think the sa=
fest approach is validity per Indicator.&nbsp; Validity for parent / child =
would be rare and validity per Incident even rarer.</span><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span style=
=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;=
"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">One question, how do we r=
epresent &#8220;still valid&#8221;? If I have an indicator that is valid wh=
en I send the message how do I know what that time represents?&nbsp; If I
 put &#8220;12/20/2013 13:00&#8221; as the time can you tell if I mean that=
 it was still valid when I sent the message at that time or that its validi=
ty period ended at that time. Those are very different scenarios and critic=
ally important for searching / responding to
 indicator hits.</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><span style=
=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;=
"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Roman<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>
mile mailing list<br>
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;"><a href=3D"mailto:mile@ietf.org"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0=
pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;color:purple">=
mile@ietf.org</span></a></span><br>
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;"><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mile"><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;seri=
f&quot;;color:purple">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mile</span></a>=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:&quot;Hel=
vetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">______________________________________=
_________<br>
mile mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:mile@ietf.org"><span style=3D"color:purple">mile@ietf.org=
</span></a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mile"><span style=3D"color=
:purple">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mile</span></a><o:p></o:p></=
span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_359EC4B99E040048A7131E0F4E113AFC54C39D29marathon_--


From ietf@augustcellars.com  Tue Feb 11 11:14:59 2014
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From: "Jim Schaad" <ietf@augustcellars.com>
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Subject: [mile] FW: New Version Notification for draft-schaad-mile-iodef-plasma-00.txt
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Trever Freeman, myself and Kathleen have been talking about the ability =
to integrate the Plasma work into IODEF for doing finer grain =
protection.  This draft lays out the basic ideas that are being proposed =
for that purpose.

We have requested a slot at the London meeting to discuss this.

Expect the rest of the plasma drafts to be updated this week.

Jim


> -----Original Message-----
> From: internet-drafts@ietf.org [mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 11:11 AM
> To: Jim Schaad; Jim Schaad
> Subject: New Version Notification for =
draft-schaad-mile-iodef-plasma-00.txt
>=20
>=20
> A new version of I-D, draft-schaad-mile-iodef-plasma-00.txt
> has been successfully submitted by Jim Schaad and posted to the IETF
> repository.
>=20
> Name:		draft-schaad-mile-iodef-plasma
> Revision:	00
> Title:		Plasma Protected IODEF
> Document date:	2014-02-11
> Group:		Individual Submission
> Pages:		26
> URL:            =
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-schaad-mile-iodef-
> plasma-00.txt
> Status:         =
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-schaad-mile-iodef-plasma/
> Htmlized:       =
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-schaad-mile-iodef-plasma-00
>=20
>=20
> Abstract:
>    The Incident Object Description Exchange Format (IODEF) defines a =
XML
>    representation for information about computer security incidents.
>    The driver for the standardization effort for IODEF is the desire =
to
>    share the information as part of the cybersecurity response.  As =
the
>    security considerations of RFC5070 notes, the data can be sensitive
>    and should only be disclosed to appropriate parties.  This document
>    describes how to use the Plasma policy enforcement model to ensure
>    access to the IODEF data follows the appropriate policies in a
>    distributed environment and independent of the transports used to
>    share the information.
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of =
submission
> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
>=20
> The IETF Secretariat


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Hello!

Issue #17 (http://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/mile/trac/ticket/17) is tracking t=
he need to review the completeness of Incident@purpose of 5070bis.  As of d=
raft -05, this attribute is defined as follows:

1.  traceback.  The document was sent for trace-back purposes.
2.  mitigation.  The document was sent to request aid in mitigating the des=
cribed activity.
3.  reporting.  The document was sent to comply with reporting requirements=
.
4.  watch.  The document was sent to convey indicators to watch for particu=
lar activity.
5.  other.  The document was sent for purposes specified in the Expectation=
 class.
6.  ext-value.  An escape value used to extend this attribute.  See Section=
 5.1.

Does the community have a need to add any additional values?

Roman


From kathleen.moriarty@emc.com  Tue Feb 11 12:40:43 2014
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From: "Moriarty, Kathleen" <kathleen.moriarty@emc.com>
To: "mile@ietf.org" <mile@ietf.org>
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 15:40:15 -0500
Thread-Topic: New Version Notification for draft-moriarty-mile-implementreport-00.txt
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From john_richardson@symantec.com  Wed Feb 12 07:55:28 2014
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From: John Richardson <john_richardson@symantec.com>
To: "mile@ietf.org" <mile@ietf.org>
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2014 07:51:13 -0800
Thread-Topic: re: [mile] CPE and SWID
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Subject: Re: [mile] CPE and SWID
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--_000_1AD43422943F5B4E89EF766D28DCA2EA0BF9D894CETUS1XCHEVSPIN_
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Hi Everyone,

I added myself to the this list so that I can comment on SWID tags on this =
thread from a Symantec perspective. Hopefully my response will be added inl=
ine to others on this thread.

Symantec has SWID tags conformant to the ISO 19770-2:2009 standard released=
 in four products - NetBackup 7.0 and later, Endpoint Protection 12.1 and l=
ater, Control Compliance Suite 11.0, and Enterprise Vault 9.03 and 10.0 and=
 later.

Symantec has been active in the support and development of the ISO 19770 st=
andards for many years with the initial interest in improving the ability S=
ymantec customers and partners better manage their Symantec assets using CO=
TS SAM tools.

Symantec is a founding member of TagVault.org as we see it necessary to hav=
e a consistent implementation of tags across publishers along with normaliz=
ed data to decrease issues related to the current model where SAM tools use=
 their own proprietary techniques to discover and identify installed softwa=
re on a device, and to report software asset information.

Symantec, along with TagVault.org members, are working together to agree on=
 common guidelines for how to implement tags against baseline use cases to =
ensure that if publishers implement tags to these guidelines, COTS tools ca=
n use standard algorithms to consistently discover and to identify installe=
d software, as well as consistently report software asset information.

In the past year or so, the Federal Government interest in SWID tags has in=
creased from a security perspective as Dave Waltermire from NIST outlines b=
elow. We are actively working with several government agencies, through Tag=
Vault.org and along with other TagVault.org members, to ensure that impleme=
ntation guidelines for SWID tags developed within TagVault.org align with t=
he Federal Government use cases and requirements.

For more information on these activities, please see www.tagvault.org<http:=
//www.tagvault.org>.

Best Regards,

John

________________________________

 *   From: "Waltermire, David A." <david.waltermire at nist.gov<mailto:davi=
d.waltermire@DOMAIN.HIDDEN>>
 *   To: "Moriarty, Kathleen" <kathleen.moriarty at emc.com<mailto:kathleen=
.moriarty@DOMAIN.HIDDEN>>, "Roman D. Danyliw" <rdd at cert.org<mailto:rdd@D=
OMAIN.HIDDEN>>, "mile at ietf.org<mailto:mile@DOMAIN.HIDDEN>" <mile at ietf=
.org<mailto:mile@DOMAIN.HIDDEN>>
 *   Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2014 21:43:46 +0000
 *   List-id: "Managed Incident Lightweight Exchange, IODEF extensions and =
RID exchanges" <mile.ietf.org>

________________________________

Changing the subject to reflect the discussion thread.



I just saw this message. Here is what I can vouch for as the NIST lead for =
these efforts:



NIST is continuing to support CPE as it has for the last few years. SCAP an=
d a few other efforts are dependent on it, so this is critical. It has not =
been defunded.



NIST is working with the SWID community to advance the ISO specification ef=
forts and to ensure that the necessary implementation guidance for SWID tag=
 producers and tool consumers is put in place.



We see SWID tags as having synergies with the CPE effort. We are looking at=
 methods to consume SWID tags, as software publishers create them, for use =
in auto generating CPEs. This has significant advantages over the current C=
PE methodology that largely involves investigating vulnerability reports an=
d vendor product pages and documentation to generate CPE names. By generati=
ng CPE names in this way we can increase the fidelity and accuracy of the p=
roduct data, using less human effort, making product identification informa=
tion available as close to the publication of the software as possible.



Our long-term plans are to maintain a mapping between SWID and CPE in the N=
ational Vulnerability Database. This information does not exist yet, but is=
 in the planning stages. Such information will provide a transition path fo=
r the SCAP community and other that use CPE today to take greater advantage=
s of the information that SWID offer including: a more robust product metad=
ata model and footprint information including file names, versions, and has=
hes.



Please let me know if you have any questions.



Thanks,

Dave







> -----Original Message-----

> From: mile [mailto:mile-bounces at ietf.org] On Behalf Of Moriarty, Kathl=
een

> Sent: Monday, January 27, 2014 5:40 PM

> To: Roman D. Danyliw; mile at ietf.org

> Subject: Re: [mile] @user-agent attribute

>

> CPE isn't funded anymore and may get folded in SWID.  I don't have the

> latest on this, but would not want to rely on something that may go away.=
  Is

> anyone aware of the latest on CPE?

>

> Thanks,

> Kathleen

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: mile [mailto:mile-bounces at ietf.org] On Behalf Of Roman D. Danyli=
w

> Sent: Monday, January 27, 2014 3:22 PM

> To: mile at ietf.org

> Subject: [mile] @user-agent attribute

>

> Hello!

>

> The -04 schema of 5070bis has the following comment in the definition of

> @user-agent in the Application and OperatingSystem classes.

>

> [begin comment]

> "<!-- CHANGE: Should UserAgent or HTTPUserAgent fit in SoftwareTypes?

> This is typically intended to mean servers, but the category seems more

> appropriate than others.-->"

> [end comment]

>

> SoftwareType is the complexType used to define System/Application and

> Service/OperatingSystem.  Lacking documentation in the text and going onl=
y

> on the name in the schema, it would appear that this attribute is attempt=
ing

> to describe the "User-Agent" HTTP field per Section 14.43 of RFC2616.  If

> there is a broader definition, could someone please talk us through it.

>

> With the addition of the Service/ApplicationHeader there appear to be two

> ways to represent a User-Agent.  Consider the following XML snippet below=
:

>

> <System>...

> <Service ip_protocol=3D"80">

> ... <ApplicationHeader proto=3D"80" field=3D"User-Agent"

> dtype=3D"string">Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.2; Win64; x64)

> AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/32.0.1667.0

> Safari/537.36</ApplicationApplication>

>

> ... <Application swid=3D"xxx" configid=3D"xxx" vendor=3D"Google"

> name=3D"Chrome" user-agent=3D"Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.2; Win64; x64)

> AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/32.0.1667.0 Safari/537.36"

> version=3D"32.0.11667"> <URL>something</URL> </Application> </Service>

> </System>

>

> A few questions:

> ** Does the data model need the @user-agent attribute if

> ApplicationHeader can model it?

> ** Could @swid (defined as "An identifier that can be used to reference t=
his

> software") be used for a User-Agent?

> ** What implementation guidance should be given about how @user-agent

> should be set with Service/OperatingSystem?

>

> To share my own bias, the Application and OperatingSystem Class are

> currently very poorly specified.  I don't think we should continue improv=
ing

> them.  Instead, we should reference software through CPE

> (http://nvd.nist.gov/cpe.cfm) or similar effort as is possible through th=
e SCI-

> defined class Platform.  For the time being, I would drop @user-agent.

>

> Roman

> _______________________________________________

> mile mailing list

> mile at ietf.org

> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mile

>

> _______________________________________________

> mile mailing list

> mile at ietf.org

> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mile

________________________________

 *   Follow-Ups:
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--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit">
<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vli=
nk=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal>Hi Everyone,<o:p=
></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>I=
 added myself to the this list so that I can comment on SWID tags on this t=
hread from a Symantec perspective. Hopefully my response will be added inli=
ne to others on this thread. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Symantec has SWID tags conformant to the IS=
O 19770-2:2009 standard released in four products &#8211; NetBackup 7.0 and=
 later, Endpoint Protection 12.1 and later, Control Compliance Suite 11.0, =
and Enterprise Vault 9.03 and 10.0 and later. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMso=
Normal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Symantec has been active i=
n the support and development of the ISO 19770 standards for many years wit=
h the initial interest in improving the ability Symantec customers and part=
ners better manage their Symantec assets using COTS SAM tools. <o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Symantec =
is a founding member of TagVault.org as we see it necessary to have a consi=
stent implementation of tags across publishers along with normalized data t=
o decrease issues related to the current model where SAM tools use their ow=
n proprietary techniques to discover and identify installed software on a d=
evice, and to report software asset information. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3D=
MsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Symantec, along with Ta=
gVault.org members, are working together to agree on common guidelines for =
how to implement tags against baseline use cases to ensure that if publishe=
rs implement tags to these guidelines, COTS tools can use standard algorith=
ms to consistently discover and to identify installed software, as well as =
consistently report software asset information. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>In the past year or so, =
the Federal Government interest in SWID tags has increased from a security =
perspective as Dave Waltermire from NIST outlines below. We are actively wo=
rking with several government agencies, through TagVault.org and along with=
 other TagVault.org members, to ensure that implementation guidelines for S=
WID tags developed within TagVault.org align with the Federal Government us=
e cases and requirements. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>For more information on these activities, plea=
se see <a href=3D"http://www.tagvault.org">www.tagvault.org</a>.<o:p></o:p>=
</p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Best Reg=
ards,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oNormal>John<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div c=
lass=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><hr size=3D2 wi=
dth=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter></div><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><ul type=3Ddisc><li c=
lass=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:aut=
o;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo1'><em><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-s=
erif"'>From</span></em>: &quot;Waltermire, David A.&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:david.waltermire@DOMAIN.HIDDEN">david.waltermire at nist.gov</a>&gt; <=
o:p></o:p></li><li class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-m=
argin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo1'><em><span style=3D'font-fami=
ly:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>To</span></em>: &quot;Moriarty, Kathleen&quot; &=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:kathleen.moriarty@DOMAIN.HIDDEN">kathleen.moriarty at =
emc.com</a>&gt;, &quot;Roman D. Danyliw&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rdd@DOM=
AIN.HIDDEN">rdd at cert.org</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:mile@DOMAIN.HI=
DDEN">mile at ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mile@DOMAIN.HIDDEN">=
mile at ietf.org</a>&gt; <o:p></o:p></li><li class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso=
-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo1'><e=
m><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Date</span></em>: Wed,=
 5 Feb 2014 21:43:46 +0000 <o:p></o:p></li><li class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'm=
so-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo1'>=
<em><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>List-id</span></em>:=
 &quot;Managed Incident Lightweight Exchange, IODEF extensions and RID exch=
anges&quot; &lt;mile.ietf.org&gt; <o:p></o:p></li></ul></span><div class=3D=
MsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><hr size=3D2 width=3D"=
100%" align=3Dcenter></div><pre>Changing the subject to reflect the discuss=
ion thread.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre><pre>I just saw thi=
s message. Here is what I can vouch for as the NIST lead for these efforts:=
<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre><pre>NIST is continuing to sup=
port CPE as it has for the last few years. SCAP and a few other efforts are=
 dependent on it, so this is critical. It has not been defunded.<o:p></o:p>=
</pre><pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre><pre>NIST is working with the SWID commun=
ity to advance the ISO specification efforts and to ensure that the necessa=
ry implementation guidance for SWID tag producers and tool consumers is put=
 in place.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre><pre>We see SWID tag=
s as having synergies with the CPE effort. We are looking at methods to con=
sume SWID tags, as software publishers create them, for use in auto generat=
ing CPEs. This has significant advantages over the current CPE methodology =
that largely involves investigating vulnerability reports and vendor produc=
t pages and documentation to generate CPE names. By generating CPE names in=
 this way we can increase the fidelity and accuracy of the product data, us=
ing less human effort, making product identification information available =
as close to the publication of the software as possible.<o:p></o:p></pre><p=
re><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre><pre>Our long-term plans are to maintain a mappin=
g between SWID and CPE in the National Vulnerability Database. This informa=
tion does not exist yet, but is in the planning stages. Such information wi=
ll provide a transition path for the SCAP community and other that use CPE =
today to take greater advantages of the information that SWID offer includi=
ng: a more robust product metadata model and footprint information includin=
g file names, versions, and hashes.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p><=
/pre><pre>Please let me know if you have any questions.<o:p></o:p></pre><pr=
e><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre><pre>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Dave<o:p></o:p><=
/pre><pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre><pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre><pre><o:p>&nbs=
p;</o:p></pre><pre>&gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&gt=
; From: mile [<a href=3D"mailto:mile-bounces">mailto:mile-bounces</a> at ie=
tf.org] On Behalf Of Moriarty, Kathleen<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&gt; Sent: Mon=
day, January 27, 2014 5:40 PM<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&gt; To: Roman D. Danyli=
w; mile at ietf.org<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&gt; Subject: Re: [mile] @user-age=
nt attribute<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&gt; <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&gt; CPE isn't=
 funded anymore and may get folded in SWID.&nbsp; I don't have the<o:p></o:=
p></pre><pre>&gt; latest on this, but would not want to rely on something t=
hat may go away.&nbsp; Is<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&gt; anyone aware of the lat=
est on CPE?<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&gt; <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&gt; Thanks,<o:=
p></o:p></pre><pre>&gt; Kathleen<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&gt; <o:p></o:p></pre=
><pre>&gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&gt; From: mile =
[<a href=3D"mailto:mile-bounces">mailto:mile-bounces</a> at ietf.org] On Be=
half Of Roman D. Danyliw<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&gt; Sent: Monday, January 27=
, 2014 3:22 PM<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&gt; To: mile at ietf.org<o:p></o:p></p=
re><pre>&gt; Subject: [mile] @user-agent attribute<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&gt=
; <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&gt; Hello!<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&gt; <o:p></o:p></=
pre><pre>&gt; The -04 schema of 5070bis has the following comment in the de=
finition of<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&gt; @user-agent in the Application and Op=
eratingSystem classes.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&gt; <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&gt;=
 [begin comment]<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&gt; &quot;&lt;!-- CHANGE: Should Use=
rAgent or HTTPUserAgent fit in SoftwareTypes?<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&gt; Thi=
s is typically intended to mean servers, but the category seems more<o:p></=
o:p></pre><pre>&gt; appropriate than others.--&gt;&quot;<o:p></o:p></pre><p=
re>&gt; [end comment]<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&gt; <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&gt; =
SoftwareType is the complexType used to define System/Application and<o:p><=
/o:p></pre><pre>&gt; Service/OperatingSystem.&nbsp; Lacking documentation i=
n the text and going only<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&gt; on the name in the sche=
ma, it would appear that this attribute is attempting<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>=
&gt; to describe the &quot;User-Agent&quot; HTTP field per Section 14.43 of=
 RFC2616.&nbsp; If<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&gt; there is a broader definition,=
 could someone please talk us through it.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&gt; <o:p></=
o:p></pre><pre>&gt; With the addition of the Service/ApplicationHeader ther=
e appear to be two<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&gt; ways to represent a User-Agent=
.&nbsp; Consider the following XML snippet below:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&gt;=
 <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&gt; &lt;System&gt;...<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&gt; &lt=
;Service ip_protocol=3D&quot;80&quot;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&gt; ... &lt=
;ApplicationHeader proto=3D&quot;80&quot; field=3D&quot;User-Agent&quot;<o:=
p></o:p></pre><pre>&gt; dtype=3D&quot;string&quot;&gt;Mozilla/5.0 (Windows =
NT 6.2; Win64; x64)<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&gt; AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, li=
ke Gecko) Chrome/32.0.1667.0<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&gt; Safari/537.36&lt;/Ap=
plicationApplication&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&gt; <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&g=
t; ... &lt;Application swid=3D&quot;xxx&quot; configid=3D&quot;xxx&quot; ve=
ndor=3D&quot;Google&quot;<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&gt; name=3D&quot;Chrome&quo=
t; user-agent=3D&quot;Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.2; Win64; x64)<o:p></o:p></=
pre><pre>&gt; AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/32.0.1667.0 Saf=
ari/537.36&quot;<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&gt; version=3D&quot;32.0.11667&quot;=
&gt; &lt;URL&gt;something&lt;/URL&gt; &lt;/Application&gt; &lt;/Service&gt;=
<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&gt; &lt;/System&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&gt; <o:p><=
/o:p></pre><pre>&gt; A few questions:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&gt; ** Does the=
 data model need the @user-agent attribute if<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&gt; App=
licationHeader can model it?<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&gt; ** Could @swid (defi=
ned as &quot;An identifier that can be used to reference this<o:p></o:p></p=
re><pre>&gt; software&quot;) be used for a User-Agent?<o:p></o:p></pre><pre=
>&gt; ** What implementation guidance should be given about how @user-agent=
<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&gt; should be set with Service/OperatingSystem?<o:p>=
</o:p></pre><pre>&gt; <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&gt; To share my own bias, the =
Application and OperatingSystem Class are<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&gt; current=
ly very poorly specified.&nbsp; I don't think we should continue improving<=
o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&gt; them.&nbsp; Instead, we should reference software=
 through CPE<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&gt; (<a href=3D"http://nvd.nist.gov/cpe.=
cfm">http://nvd.nist.gov/cpe.cfm</a>) or similar effort as is possible thro=
ugh the SCI-<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&gt; defined class Platform.&nbsp; For th=
e time being, I would drop @user-agent.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&gt; <o:p></o:=
p></pre><pre>&gt; Roman<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&gt; _________________________=
______________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&gt; mile mailing list<o:p></o:=
p></pre><pre>&gt; mile at ietf.org<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&gt; <a href=3D"htt=
ps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mile">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listi=
nfo/mile</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&gt; <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&gt; _________=
______________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&gt; mile maili=
ng list<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&gt; mile at ietf.org<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>&gt=
; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mile">https://www.ietf.o=
rg/mailman/listinfo/mile</a><o:p></o:p></pre><div class=3DMsoNormal align=
=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dc=
enter></div><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-ser=
if";mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><ul type=3Ddisc><li class=3DMsoNormal style=
=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1 level1 l=
fo2'><strong><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Follow-Ups<=
/span></strong>: <o:p></o:p></li><ul type=3Dcircle><li class=3DMsoNormal st=
yle=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1 level=
2 lfo2'><a name=3D01348></a><a href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web=
/mile/current/msg01348.html"><b>Re: [mile] CPE and SWID</b></a> <o:p></o:p>=
</li><ul type=3Dsquare><li class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:au=
to;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1 level3 lfo2'><em><span style=3D'f=
ont-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>From:</span></em> Blibbet<o:p></o:p></li=
></ul></ul></ul><ul type=3Ddisc><li class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-t=
op-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo3'>Prev by Dat=
e: <strong><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><a href=3D"ht=
tp://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/mile/current/msg01346.html">Re: [mile] D=
ocumenting DomainData</a></span></strong> <o:p></o:p></li><li class=3DMsoNo=
rmal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l=
0 level1 lfo3'>Next by Date: <strong><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","=
sans-serif"'><a href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/mile/current/m=
sg01348.html">Re: [mile] CPE and SWID</a></span></strong> <o:p></o:p></li><=
li class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo3'>Previous by thread: <strong><span style=3D'f=
ont-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><a href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/mail-arch=
ive/web/mile/current/msg01344.html">[mile] I-D Action: draft-ietf-mile-rfc5=
070-bis-05.txt</a></span></strong> <o:p></o:p></li><li class=3DMsoNormal st=
yle=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level=
1 lfo3'>Next by thread: <strong><span style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-=
serif"'><a href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/mile/current/msg013=
48.html">Re: [mile] CPE and SWID</a></span></strong> <o:p></o:p></li><li cl=
ass=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto=
;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo3'>Index(es): <o:p></o:p></li><ul type=3Dcircle><li =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:au=
to;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo3'><a href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web=
/mile/current/maillist.html#01347"><strong><span style=3D'font-family:"Cali=
bri","sans-serif";color:blue'>Date</span></strong></a> <o:p></o:p></li><li =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:au=
to;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo3'><a href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web=
/mile/current/threads.html#01347"><strong><span style=3D'font-family:"Calib=
ri","sans-serif";color:blue'>Thread</span></strong></a> <o:p></o:p></li></u=
l></ul></span><p><b>Note Well: Messages sent to this mailing list are the o=
pinions of the senders and do not imply endorsement by the IETF.</b><o:p></=
o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div></body></html>=

--_000_1AD43422943F5B4E89EF766D28DCA2EA0BF9D894CETUS1XCHEVSPIN_--


From kathleen.moriarty@emc.com  Wed Feb 12 09:57:43 2014
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From: "Moriarty, Kathleen" <kathleen.moriarty@emc.com>
To: "mile@ietf.org" <mile@ietf.org>
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2014 12:57:24 -0500
Thread-Topic: CSIRT Tools/Product showcase at IETF Bits and Bytes
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Subject: [mile] CSIRT Tools/Product showcase at IETF Bits and Bytes
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Hello,

At the upcoming IETF meeting, there will be a Bits and Bites showcase on Ma=
rch 6th from 19:00-21:00.  I was asked if tools and products implemented to=
 assist CSIRT teams using IETF protocols could be showcased at the event.  =
If any of you are interested in showcasing your tools or products at the ev=
ent, more information can be found at the link below:

http://www.ietf.org/meeting/89/bits-n-bites.html

IETF protocols may include those developed in MILE, IPFIX, XMPP, MARF or ot=
her related working groups.

Please let me know if you are working to get a table in addition to the ISO=
C so that we may be able to coordinate between vendors or implementers, etc=
.

There will be about 1,200 engineers attending from more than 40 countries. =
 It would be great to show the progress we have made so far in this space.

Thank you,
Kathleen

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<html xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-micr=
osoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" =
xmlns:m=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns=3D"http:=
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vli=
nk=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal>Hello,<o:p></o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>At the =
upcoming IETF meeting, there will be a Bits and Bites showcase on March 6<s=
up>th</sup> from 19:00-21:00.&nbsp; I was asked if tools and products imple=
mented to assist CSIRT teams using IETF protocols could be showcased at the=
 event.&nbsp; If any of you are interested in showcasing your tools or prod=
ucts at the event, more information can be found at the link below:<o:p></o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><a hr=
ef=3D"http://www.ietf.org/meeting/89/bits-n-bites.html">http://www.ietf.org=
/meeting/89/bits-n-bites.html</a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&=
nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>IETF protocols may include those develo=
ped in MILE, IPFIX, XMPP, MARF or other related working groups.<o:p></o:p><=
/p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Please le=
t me know if you are working to get a table in addition to the ISOC so that=
 we may be able to coordinate between vendors or implementers, etc.&nbsp; <=
o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNorma=
l>There will be about 1,200 engineers attending from more than 40 countries=
.&nbsp; It would be great to show the progress we have made so far in this =
space.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DM=
soNormal>Thank you,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Kathleen<o:p></o:p><=
/p></div></body></html>=

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From stevek@tagvault.org  Wed Feb 12 10:35:58 2014
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From: Steve Klos <stevek@tagvault.org>
To: "mile@ietf.org" <mile@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [mile] CPE and SWID
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Quite a number of issues addressed in this e-mail - I apologize for the len=
gth, but wanted to provide background for anyone new and try to provide som=
e insight on various issues that have recently been raised in the MILE dist=
ribution list.  David Waltermire has done a great job discussing many of th=
ese issues, and David's been great in providing feedback on real-world use =
case validation for SWID tags that have made the standard and best practice=
s guides better and more complete.  However, there are numerous use cases f=
or SWID tags including many that are outside the scope of what many on this=
 list may be aware of, so forgive me if I end up repeating information you =
already know.
Full disclosure - my name is Steve Klos and I work for a non-profit organiz=
ation that is tasked with evangelizing and providing certification efforts =
for SWID tags based on the ISO/IEC 19770-2 standard.  I do absolutely have =
an agenda - I want to see more effective and automated management of IT ope=
rations when it comes to software security, compliance and logistics.  The =
primary platforms the program is focused on are notebooks, desktops, tablet=
s, minis, mainframes, cloud and virtual systems and includes support for an=
y publisher on any platform.  It is possible that the SWID tags may be usef=
ul in a wider range of mobile systems as well, but the use cases have not y=
et been fully evaluated in that space.
The overall cost to include SWID tags as part of a software development pro=
ject is absolutely trivial and the process is designed to be completely man=
aged within a software publisher's infrastructure, so there are no critical=
 path issues that get between a publisher and a software release.  SWID tag=
s are also designed for use within customer environments so IT developed so=
ftware and software that does not include tags from the publisher can be ta=
gged.
The uptake of SWID tags is a chicken and egg problem - why do software publ=
ishers want to provide SWID tags if tool providers and end-users aren't rea=
ding them and why do tool providers create support for SWID tags if publish=
ers and end-users are not creating them.  Fortunately, we've moved well bey=
ond that issue, now it's a matter of how quickly publishers integrate SWID =
tags into their development process.
Evidence that indicates support for SWID tags in the market include:

1)      Publishers see the value of SWID tags both for their internal opera=
tions as well as for their customers.  More and more publishers have starte=
d to include SWID tags in their software, or will in the very near future. =
 These publishers include EMC, HP, IBM, Microsoft and Symantec.

2)      Symantec has been shipping 4 of their enterprise products with SWID=
 tags.  Microsoft has included tags in all new software releases they ship =
and they have indicated that they are interested in adding SWID tags to old=
er Microsoft products through the patching process.  HP has already started=
 to ship SWID tags.  Adobe has been shipping SWID tags since Creative Suite=
s 4.0, IBM will be shipping software with SWID tags this year and any Windo=
ws based software product that uses InstallShield 2012 or later will automa=
tically have SWID tags created and installed as part of the install script.=
  Windows based software that uses WiX or Advanced Installer will need to i=
nclude the option to add SWID tags, but the options are trivially easy to u=
se and do not require any additional purchase of a standard, or memberships=
 to any organizations.

3)      Tools that are used to create Microsoft centered installation tools=
 all support the creation of SWID tags.  In fact anyone using InstallShield=
 2012 or later will automatically create and install SWID tags as part of t=
heir install script.  Recognizing that Microsoft software is an important, =
but not the complete subset of the devices under management today, everyone=
 generally recognizes that Microsoft software is a critical majority of the=
 software in use across a wide spectrum of market stakeholders and this pla=
tform needs better automation capabilities for security, compliance and log=
istics.  Better automation can only be provided when IT shops have authorit=
ative information that comes directly from the software publisher or the IT=
 organization.

4)      Tools that are used for discovery support SWID tags today are shown=
 below:

*       Aspera
*       Asset Metrics
*       CA Technology
*       Eracent
*       Express Metrix
*       Flexera
*       Hewlett Packard
*       Magnicomp
*       Microsoft Assessment and Planning (MAP)
*       Microsoft SCCM
*       Sassafras Software
*       Scalable Software
*       Software Management.org
*       Symantec
There are many more products adding functionality to support SWID tags at t=
he moment:

5)      Numerous US Government efforts currently underway are recognizing t=
hat a more authoritative software identification effort is required for the=
ir success.  The inclusion of SWID tags in the Cybersecurity Innovation For=
um presentations was seen across the board from IAD, NIST, MITRE and DHS.  =
There is no other option we are aware of within a standards body that can c=
ome close to the fidelity and richness of the information provided by SWID =
tags, do it in a way that the publisher has the ability to create the data =
internally (and therefore not create a critical path problem for software r=
eleases) and also support the authoritative capabilities provided by digita=
l signatures.

6)      Other standards bodies are incorporating SWID tags in their specifi=
cations.  DMTF has added it to V2.40 of their CIM schema and will be provid=
ing a profile for SWID tags later this quarter.  TNC has also incorporated =
SWID tags into their specifications and NCCoE sees SWID tags as a fundament=
al building block for their reference infrastructure.

7)      For those who are concerned about ISO standards being behind a payw=
all - ISO has finally made some accommodation to the need to provide certai=
n specifications for free.  Essentially, standards that are included in rul=
emaking documents by the US Government now have open viewer access through =
the ANSI Portal.  I assume that other national bodies that work with ISO ar=
e providing similar portals for their own countries.  You can have a look a=
t ANSI's portal here - http://ibr.ansi.org/.  I would expect that if the 19=
770-2 standard becomes mandated for software being sold into the US governm=
ent that the standard would be available for people to access at no charge.

8)      There is more effort happening within the FOSS community - primaril=
y around the revision for the 19770-2 standard that will provide even more =
support for free and open source publishers to use SWID tags to provide add=
itional relationship, or link data that will help users identify other rela=
ted software components they may be interested in.

9)      TagVault.org (the organization I work with) has previously written =
a compendium for the 19770-2 standard that allows for anyone to access the =
material at no charge.  The programs model moving forward is that the stand=
ards and documents we create (such as the best practices document that is t=
he next document our working group is focused on) will be available for the=
 public at no charge.  Note that the compendium is not currently published =
primarily because certification efforts will be done against a best practic=
es document being developed by a TagVault.org working group which is curren=
tly testing various use cases and requirements at the moment.

10)   There has been significant interest in SWID tags from customers in th=
e fortune 500.  The interest is being driven by the need for more accurate =
information from inventory and discovery tools, a need to reconcile data be=
tween tools that typically use proprietary data sets and the recognition th=
at more, better and consistent automation is required across platforms if t=
he IT operations have any hope of keeping up with the pace of change being =
pushed by the business.

There have been other questions about SWID tags that have been addressed, b=
ut seem to keep coming up.

Yes, there is a paywall for the ISO standards.  However, as indicated by it=
em 6 above, ISO and ANSI have recognized that there is a need to make stand=
ards more available to vendors who do not have the money available to pay $=
150 for a copy of the standard.  There will be other options available for =
organizations who do not "need" the official ISO standard - you can use too=
ls (open source or paid for), you can use other reference documents (freely=
 available, provided through training, or provided through association memb=
ership), you can access and use the schema directly - which, along with sam=
ple SWID tags will provide most of the data developers would require to inc=
orporate SWID tags.

Anyone has the ability to provide support for SWID tags and there is no res=
triction, nor is there a requirement that organizations must buy the standa=
rd, or join any organization.  TagVault.org is working with larger publishe=
rs and end-user organizations to establish a baseline of best practices whi=
ch will be made available to anyone for free.

SWID tags also do provide a bridge to support CPE names if required, but th=
e CPE names that will be created will be curated by the publishers themselv=
es and therefore will be normalized, consistent and more importantly can be=
 directly correlated with software that is installed on a device.

There is a new capability that is being added in the 19770-2 revision as we=
ll which will allow software publishers to reference a URI that software IT=
 groups to identify when patches are released and know exactly which softwa=
re products the patches are targeted at in such a way that a simple invento=
ry of software can identify devices to target for patch installations.  Oh,=
 and patches include SWID tags as well, so identifying if a patch is instal=
led is again, simply a matter of checking inventory for a device.

I can discuss the benefits and limitations of CPE's for quite a while, but =
I believe quite a few of the issues are relatively well known.  With the fa=
ct that SWID tags are implemented in a wide range of software today with mo=
re support on the way, it seems clear that the SCAP infrastructure can bene=
fit from working with software publishers instead of trying to manage somet=
hing that is not supported by software publishers (in general, most publish=
ers do not provide a CPE reference with their software today).

It seems that the goals of a standards development organization should be t=
o utilize work that is supported by providers (in this case software publis=
hers) and that support the use cases of the consumers (in this particular i=
nstance we're referencing SCAP/CPE/MILE, etc).  With the fact that there ar=
e limited resources available to develop standards, it also seems that the =
various SDOs should work together to solve bigger problems...  This is why =
ISO, the DMTF, TNC and TagVault.org (among others) are all working cooperat=
ively together.  TagVault.org is supportive of the IETF efforts in both the=
 MILE and SACM efforts and will continue to do what it can to support the e=
fforts to improve IT automation by ensuring systems receive authoritative d=
ata from validated sources.  In the case of SWID tags, the validated source=
s should be the publishers as they are the only ones who have any hope of m=
anaging the scale of this problem.

Regards,

Steve Klos

From: John Richardson [mailto:john_richardson@symantec.com]
Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2014 7:51 AM
To: mile@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [mile] CPE and SWID

Hi Everyone,

I added myself to the this list so that I can comment on SWID tags on this =
thread from a Symantec perspective. Hopefully my response will be added inl=
ine to others on this thread.

Symantec has SWID tags conformant to the ISO 19770-2:2009 standard released=
 in four products - NetBackup 7.0 and later, Endpoint Protection 12.1 and l=
ater, Control Compliance Suite 11.0, and Enterprise Vault 9.03 and 10.0 and=
 later.

Symantec has been active in the support and development of the ISO 19770 st=
andards for many years with the initial interest in improving the ability S=
ymantec customers and partners better manage their Symantec assets using CO=
TS SAM tools.

Symantec is a founding member of TagVault.org as we see it necessary to hav=
e a consistent implementation of tags across publishers along with normaliz=
ed data to decrease issues related to the current model where SAM tools use=
 their own proprietary techniques to discover and identify installed softwa=
re on a device, and to report software asset information.

Symantec, along with TagVault.org members, are working together to agree on=
 common guidelines for how to implement tags against baseline use cases to =
ensure that if publishers implement tags to these guidelines, COTS tools ca=
n use standard algorithms to consistently discover and to identify installe=
d software, as well as consistently report software asset information.

In the past year or so, the Federal Government interest in SWID tags has in=
creased from a security perspective as Dave Waltermire from NIST outlines b=
elow. We are actively working with several government agencies, through Tag=
Vault.org and along with other TagVault.org members, to ensure that impleme=
ntation guidelines for SWID tags developed within TagVault.org align with t=
he Federal Government use cases and requirements.

For more information on these activities, please see www.tagvault.org<http:=
//www.tagvault.org>.

Best Regards,

John

________________________________

  *   From: "Waltermire, David A." <david.waltermire at nist.gov<mailto:dav=
id.waltermire@DOMAIN.HIDDEN>>
  *   To: "Moriarty, Kathleen" <kathleen.moriarty at emc.com<mailto:kathlee=
n.moriarty@DOMAIN.HIDDEN>>, "Roman D. Danyliw" <rdd at cert.org<mailto:rdd@=
DOMAIN.HIDDEN>>, "mile at ietf.org<mailto:mile@DOMAIN.HIDDEN>" <mile at iet=
f.org<mailto:mile@DOMAIN.HIDDEN>>
  *   Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2014 21:43:46 +0000
  *   List-id: "Managed Incident Lightweight Exchange, IODEF extensions and=
 RID exchanges" <mile.ietf.org>

________________________________

Changing the subject to reflect the discussion thread.



I just saw this message. Here is what I can vouch for as the NIST lead for =
these efforts:



NIST is continuing to support CPE as it has for the last few years. SCAP an=
d a few other efforts are dependent on it, so this is critical. It has not =
been defunded.



NIST is working with the SWID community to advance the ISO specification ef=
forts and to ensure that the necessary implementation guidance for SWID tag=
 producers and tool consumers is put in place.



We see SWID tags as having synergies with the CPE effort. We are looking at=
 methods to consume SWID tags, as software publishers create them, for use =
in auto generating CPEs. This has significant advantages over the current C=
PE methodology that largely involves investigating vulnerability reports an=
d vendor product pages and documentation to generate CPE names. By generati=
ng CPE names in this way we can increase the fidelity and accuracy of the p=
roduct data, using less human effort, making product identification informa=
tion available as close to the publication of the software as possible.



Our long-term plans are to maintain a mapping between SWID and CPE in the N=
ational Vulnerability Database. This information does not exist yet, but is=
 in the planning stages. Such information will provide a transition path fo=
r the SCAP community and other that use CPE today to take greater advantage=
s of the information that SWID offer including: a more robust product metad=
ata model and footprint information including file names, versions, and has=
hes.



Please let me know if you have any questions.



Thanks,

Dave







> -----Original Message-----

> From: mile [mailto:mile-bounces at ietf.org] On Behalf Of Moriarty, Kathl=
een

> Sent: Monday, January 27, 2014 5:40 PM

> To: Roman D. Danyliw; mile at ietf.org

> Subject: Re: [mile] @user-agent attribute

>

> CPE isn't funded anymore and may get folded in SWID.  I don't have the

> latest on this, but would not want to rely on something that may go away.=
  Is

> anyone aware of the latest on CPE?

>

> Thanks,

> Kathleen

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: mile [mailto:mile-bounces at ietf.org] On Behalf Of Roman D. Danyli=
w

> Sent: Monday, January 27, 2014 3:22 PM

> To: mile at ietf.org

> Subject: [mile] @user-agent attribute

>

> Hello!

>

> The -04 schema of 5070bis has the following comment in the definition of

> @user-agent in the Application and OperatingSystem classes.

>

> [begin comment]

> "<!-- CHANGE: Should UserAgent or HTTPUserAgent fit in SoftwareTypes?

> This is typically intended to mean servers, but the category seems more

> appropriate than others.-->"

> [end comment]

>

> SoftwareType is the complexType used to define System/Application and

> Service/OperatingSystem.  Lacking documentation in the text and going onl=
y

> on the name in the schema, it would appear that this attribute is attempt=
ing

> to describe the "User-Agent" HTTP field per Section 14.43 of RFC2616.  If

> there is a broader definition, could someone please talk us through it.

>

> With the addition of the Service/ApplicationHeader there appear to be two

> ways to represent a User-Agent.  Consider the following XML snippet below=
:

>

> <System>...

> <Service ip_protocol=3D"80">

> ... <ApplicationHeader proto=3D"80" field=3D"User-Agent"

> dtype=3D"string">Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.2; Win64; x64)

> AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/32.0.1667.0

> Safari/537.36</ApplicationApplication>

>

> ... <Application swid=3D"xxx" configid=3D"xxx" vendor=3D"Google"

> name=3D"Chrome" user-agent=3D"Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.2; Win64; x64)

> AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/32.0.1667.0 Safari/537.36"

> version=3D"32.0.11667"> <URL>something</URL> </Application> </Service>

> </System>

>

> A few questions:

> ** Does the data model need the @user-agent attribute if

> ApplicationHeader can model it?

> ** Could @swid (defined as "An identifier that can be used to reference t=
his

> software") be used for a User-Agent?

> ** What implementation guidance should be given about how @user-agent

> should be set with Service/OperatingSystem?

>

> To share my own bias, the Application and OperatingSystem Class are

> currently very poorly specified.  I don't think we should continue improv=
ing

> them.  Instead, we should reference software through CPE

> (http://nvd.nist.gov/cpe.cfm) or similar effort as is possible through th=
e SCI-

> defined class Platform.  For the time being, I would drop @user-agent.

>

> Roman

> _______________________________________________

> mile mailing list

> mile at ietf.org

> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mile

>

> _______________________________________________

> mile mailing list

> mile at ietf.org

> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mile

________________________________

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</head>
<body lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;mar=
gin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:.25in">
Quite a number of issues addressed in this e-mail &#8211; I apologize for t=
he length, but wanted to provide background for anyone new and try to provi=
de some insight on various issues that have recently been raised in the MIL=
E distribution list.&nbsp; David Waltermire
 has done a great job discussing many of these issues, and David&#8217;s be=
en great in providing feedback on real-world use case validation for SWID t=
ags that have made the standard and best practices guides better and more c=
omplete.&nbsp; However, there are numerous
 use cases for SWID tags including many that are outside the scope of what =
many on this list may be aware of, so forgive me if I end up repeating info=
rmation you already know.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;mar=
gin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:.25in">
Full disclosure &#8211; my name is Steve Klos and I work for a non-profit o=
rganization that is tasked with evangelizing and providing certification ef=
forts for SWID tags based on the ISO/IEC 19770-2 standard.&nbsp; I do absol=
utely have an agenda &#8211; I want to see more effective
 and automated management of IT operations when it comes to software securi=
ty, compliance and logistics.&nbsp; The primary platforms the program is fo=
cused on are notebooks, desktops, tablets, minis, mainframes, cloud and vir=
tual systems and includes support for
 any publisher on any platform.&nbsp; It is possible that the SWID tags may=
 be useful in a wider range of mobile systems as well, but the use cases ha=
ve not yet been fully evaluated in that space.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;mar=
gin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:.25in">
The overall cost to include SWID tags as part of a software development pro=
ject is absolutely trivial and the process is designed to be completely man=
aged within a software publisher&#8217;s infrastructure, so there are no cr=
itical path issues that get between a
 publisher and a software release.&nbsp; SWID tags are also designed for us=
e within customer environments so IT developed software and software that d=
oes not include tags from the publisher can be tagged.&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;mar=
gin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:.25in">
The uptake of SWID tags is a chicken and egg problem &#8211; why do softwar=
e publishers want to provide SWID tags if tool providers and end-users aren=
&#8217;t reading them and why do tool providers create support for SWID tag=
s if publishers and end-users are not creating
 them.&nbsp; Fortunately, we&#8217;ve moved well beyond that issue, now it&=
#8217;s a matter of how quickly publishers integrate SWID tags into their d=
evelopment process.&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;mar=
gin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:.25in">
Evidence that indicates support for SWID tags in the market include:<o:p></=
o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt;text-indent:-.2=
5in;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo10">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">1)<span style=3D"font:=
7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span><![endif]>Publishers see the value of SWID tags both for thei=
r internal operations as well as for their customers.&nbsp; More and more p=
ublishers have started to include SWID tags in their software, or will in t=
he very near future.&nbsp; These publishers
 include EMC, HP, IBM, Microsoft and Symantec.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt;text-indent:-.2=
5in;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo10">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">2)<span style=3D"font:=
7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span><![endif]>Symantec has been shipping 4 of their enterprise pr=
oducts with SWID tags.&nbsp; Microsoft has included tags in all new softwar=
e releases they ship and they have indicated that they are interested in ad=
ding SWID tags to older Microsoft products
 through the patching process.&nbsp; HP has already started to ship SWID ta=
gs.&nbsp; Adobe has been shipping SWID tags since Creative Suites 4.0, IBM =
will be shipping software with SWID tags this year and any Windows based so=
ftware product that uses InstallShield 2012
 or later will automatically have SWID tags created and installed as part o=
f the install script.&nbsp; Windows based software that uses WiX or Advance=
d Installer will need to include the option to add SWID tags, but the optio=
ns are trivially easy to use and do not
 require any additional purchase of a standard, or memberships to any organ=
izations.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt;text-indent:-.2=
5in;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo10">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">3)<span style=3D"font:=
7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span><![endif]>Tools that are used to create Microsoft centered in=
stallation tools all support the creation of SWID tags.&nbsp; In fact anyon=
e using InstallShield 2012 or later will automatically create and install S=
WID tags as part of their install script.&nbsp;
 Recognizing that Microsoft software is an important, but not the complete =
subset of the devices under management today, everyone generally recognizes=
 that Microsoft software is a critical majority of the software in use acro=
ss a wide spectrum of market stakeholders
 and this platform needs better automation capabilities for security, compl=
iance and logistics.&nbsp; Better automation can only be provided when IT s=
hops have authoritative information that comes directly from the software p=
ublisher or the IT organization.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt;text-indent:-.2=
5in;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo10">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">4)<span style=3D"font:=
7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span><![endif]>Tools that are used for discovery support SWID tags=
 today are shown below:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:1.5in;text-indent:-.25in=
;mso-list:l0 level3 lfo11">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;san=
s-serif&quot;;color:#4472C4"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&#8226;<span s=
tyle=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"color:#4472C4">Aspera<o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1.5in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-li=
st:l0 level3 lfo11">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;san=
s-serif&quot;;color:#4472C4"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&#8226;<span s=
tyle=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"color:#4472C4">Asset Metrics<=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1.5in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-li=
st:l0 level3 lfo11">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;san=
s-serif&quot;;color:#4472C4"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&#8226;<span s=
tyle=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"color:#4472C4">CA Technology<=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1.5in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-li=
st:l0 level3 lfo11">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;san=
s-serif&quot;;color:#4472C4"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&#8226;<span s=
tyle=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"color:#4472C4">Eracent<o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1.5in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-li=
st:l0 level3 lfo11">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;san=
s-serif&quot;;color:#4472C4"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&#8226;<span s=
tyle=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"color:#4472C4">Express Metrix=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1.5in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-li=
st:l0 level3 lfo11">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;san=
s-serif&quot;;color:#4472C4"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&#8226;<span s=
tyle=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"color:#4472C4">Flexera<o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1.5in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-li=
st:l0 level3 lfo11">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;san=
s-serif&quot;;color:#4472C4"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&#8226;<span s=
tyle=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"color:#4472C4">Hewlett Packar=
d<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1.5in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-li=
st:l0 level3 lfo11">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;san=
s-serif&quot;;color:#4472C4"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&#8226;<span s=
tyle=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"color:#4472C4">Magnicomp<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1.5in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-li=
st:l0 level3 lfo11">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;san=
s-serif&quot;;color:#4472C4"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&#8226;<span s=
tyle=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"color:#4472C4">Microsoft Asse=
ssment and Planning (MAP)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1.5in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-li=
st:l0 level3 lfo11">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;san=
s-serif&quot;;color:#4472C4"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&#8226;<span s=
tyle=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"color:#4472C4">Microsoft SCCM=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1.5in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-li=
st:l0 level3 lfo11">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;san=
s-serif&quot;;color:#4472C4"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&#8226;<span s=
tyle=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"color:#4472C4">Sassafras Soft=
ware<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1.5in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-li=
st:l0 level3 lfo11">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;san=
s-serif&quot;;color:#4472C4"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&#8226;<span s=
tyle=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"color:#4472C4">Scalable Softw=
are<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:1.5in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-li=
st:l0 level3 lfo11">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;san=
s-serif&quot;;color:#4472C4"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&#8226;<span s=
tyle=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"color:#4472C4">Software Manag=
ement.org<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;mar=
gin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:1.5in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level3 l=
fo11">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;san=
s-serif&quot;;color:#4472C4"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">&#8226;<span s=
tyle=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"color:#4472C4">Symantec <o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;mar=
gin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:.5in">
There are many more products adding functionality to support SWID tags at t=
he moment:<span style=3D"color:#4472C4"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt;text-indent:-.2=
5in;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo10">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">5)<span style=3D"font:=
7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span><![endif]>Numerous US Government efforts currently underway a=
re recognizing that a more authoritative software identification effort is =
required for their success.&nbsp; The inclusion of SWID tags in the Cyberse=
curity Innovation Forum presentations
 was seen across the board from IAD, NIST, MITRE and DHS.&nbsp; There is no=
 other option we are aware of within a standards body that can come close t=
o the fidelity and richness of the information provided by SWID tags, do it=
 in a way that the publisher has the
 ability to create the data internally (and therefore not create a critical=
 path problem for software releases) and also support the authoritative cap=
abilities provided by digital signatures.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt;text-indent:-.2=
5in;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo10">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">6)<span style=3D"font:=
7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span><![endif]>Other standards bodies are incorporating SWID tags =
in their specifications.&nbsp; DMTF has added it to V2.40 of their CIM sche=
ma and will be providing a profile for SWID tags later this quarter.&nbsp; =
TNC has also incorporated SWID tags into their
 specifications and NCCoE sees SWID tags as a fundamental building block fo=
r their reference infrastructure.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt;text-indent:-.2=
5in;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo10">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">7)<span style=3D"font:=
7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span><![endif]>For those who are concerned about ISO standards bei=
ng behind a paywall - ISO has finally made some accommodation to the need t=
o provide certain specifications for free.&nbsp; Essentially, standards tha=
t are included in rulemaking documents
 by the US Government now have open viewer access through the ANSI Portal.&=
nbsp; I assume that other national bodies that work with ISO are providing =
similar portals for their own countries.&nbsp; You can have a look at ANSI&=
#8217;s portal here -
<a href=3D"http://ibr.ansi.org/">http://ibr.ansi.org/</a>.&nbsp; I would ex=
pect that if the 19770-2 standard becomes mandated for software being sold =
into the US government that the standard would be available for people to a=
ccess at no charge.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt;text-indent:-.2=
5in;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo10">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">8)<span style=3D"font:=
7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span><![endif]>There is more effort happening within the FOSS comm=
unity &#8211; primarily around the revision for the 19770-2 standard that w=
ill provide even more support for free and open source publishers to use SW=
ID tags to provide additional relationship,
 or link data that will help users identify other related software componen=
ts they may be interested in.&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt;text-indent:-.2=
5in;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo10">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">9)<span style=3D"font:=
7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span><![endif]>TagVault.org (the organization I work with) has pre=
viously written a compendium for the 19770-2 standard that allows for anyon=
e to access the material at no charge.&nbsp; The programs model moving forw=
ard is that the standards and documents
 we create (such as the best practices document that is the next document o=
ur working group is focused on) will be available for the public at no char=
ge.&nbsp; Note that the compendium is not currently published primarily bec=
ause certification efforts will be done
 against a best practices document being developed by a TagVault.org workin=
g group which is currently testing various use cases and requirements at th=
e moment.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l2 level=
1 lfo10"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">10)<span styl=
e=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span><![endif]>There has been significant interest in SWID tags fr=
om customers in the fortune 500.&nbsp; The interest is being driven by the =
need for more accurate information from inventory and discovery tools, a ne=
ed to reconcile data between tools that
 typically use proprietary data sets and the recognition that more, better =
and consistent automation is required across platforms if the IT operations=
 have any hope of keeping up with the pace of change being pushed by the bu=
siness.&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">There have been other questions about SWID tags that=
 have been addressed, but seem to keep coming up.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Yes, there is a paywall for the ISO standards.&nbsp;=
 However, as indicated by item 6 above, ISO and ANSI have recognized that t=
here is a need to make standards more available to vendors who do not have =
the money available to pay $150 for a copy
 of the standard.&nbsp; There will be other options available for organizat=
ions who do not &#8220;need&#8221; the official ISO standard &#8211; you ca=
n use tools (open source or paid for), you can use other reference document=
s (freely available, provided through training, or provided
 through association membership), you can access and use the schema directl=
y &#8211; which, along with sample SWID tags will provide most of the data =
developers would require to incorporate SWID tags.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Anyone has the ability to provide support for SWID t=
ags and there is no restriction, nor is there a requirement that organizati=
ons must buy the standard, or join any organization.&nbsp; TagVault.org is =
working with larger publishers and end-user
 organizations to establish a baseline of best practices which will be made=
 available to anyone for free.&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">SWID tags also do provide a bridge to support CPE na=
mes if required, but the CPE names that will be created will be curated by =
the publishers themselves and therefore will be normalized, consistent and =
more importantly can be directly correlated
 with software that is installed on a device.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">There is a new capability that is being added in the=
 19770-2 revision as well which will allow software publishers to reference=
 a URI that software IT groups to identify when patches are released and kn=
ow exactly which software products
 the patches are targeted at in such a way that a simple inventory of softw=
are can identify devices to target for patch installations.&nbsp; Oh, and p=
atches include SWID tags as well, so identifying if a patch is installed is=
 again, simply a matter of checking inventory
 for a device.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I can discuss the benefits and limitations of CPE&#8=
217;s for quite a while, but I believe quite a few of the issues are relati=
vely well known.&nbsp; With the fact that SWID tags are implemented in a wi=
de range of software today with more support
 on the way, it seems clear that the SCAP infrastructure can benefit from w=
orking with software publishers instead of trying to manage something that =
is not supported by software publishers (in general, most publishers do not=
 provide a CPE reference with their
 software today).&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">It seems that the goals of a standards development o=
rganization should be to utilize work that is supported by providers (in th=
is case software publishers) and that support the use cases of the consumer=
s (in this particular instance we&#8217;re
 referencing SCAP/CPE/MILE, etc).&nbsp; With the fact that there are limite=
d resources available to develop standards, it also seems that the various =
SDOs should work together to solve bigger problems&#8230;&nbsp; This is why=
 ISO, the DMTF, TNC and TagVault.org (among others)
 are all working cooperatively together.&nbsp; TagVault.org is supportive o=
f the IETF efforts in both the MILE and SACM efforts and will continue to d=
o what it can to support the efforts to improve IT automation by ensuring s=
ystems receive authoritative data from
 validated sources.&nbsp; In the case of SWID tags, the validated sources s=
hould be the publishers as they are the only ones who have any hope of mana=
ging the scale of this problem.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Steve Klos<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a name=3D"_MailEndCompose"><span style=3D"color:#44=
72C4"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></a></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> John Richardson [mailto:john_richardson=
@symantec.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, February 12, 2014 7:51 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> mile@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [mile] CPE and SWID<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Everyone,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I added myself to the this list so that I can commen=
t on SWID tags on this thread from a Symantec perspective. Hopefully my res=
ponse will be added inline to others on this thread.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Symantec has SWID tags conformant to the ISO 19770-2=
:2009 standard released in four products &#8211; NetBackup 7.0 and later, E=
ndpoint Protection 12.1 and later, Control Compliance Suite 11.0, and Enter=
prise Vault 9.03 and 10.0 and later.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Symantec has been active in the support and developm=
ent of the ISO 19770 standards for many years with the initial interest in =
improving the ability Symantec customers and partners better manage their S=
ymantec assets using COTS SAM tools.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Symantec is a founding member of TagVault.org as we =
see it necessary to have a consistent implementation of tags across publish=
ers along with normalized data to decrease issues related to the current mo=
del where SAM tools use their own
 proprietary techniques to discover and identify installed software on a de=
vice, and to report software asset information.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Symantec, along with TagVault.org members, are worki=
ng together to agree on common guidelines for how to implement tags against=
 baseline use cases to ensure that if publishers implement tags to these gu=
idelines, COTS tools can use standard
 algorithms to consistently discover and to identify installed software, as=
 well as consistently report software asset information.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">In the past year or so, the Federal Government inter=
est in SWID tags has increased from a security perspective as Dave Waltermi=
re from NIST outlines below. We are actively working with several governmen=
t agencies, through TagVault.org and
 along with other TagVault.org members, to ensure that implementation guide=
lines for SWID tags developed within TagVault.org align with the Federal Go=
vernment use cases and requirements.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">For more information on these activities, please see=
 <a href=3D"http://www.tagvault.org">
www.tagvault.org</a>.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Best Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">John<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center">
<hr size=3D"2" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center">
</div>
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
serif&quot;;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">
<ul type=3D"disc">
<li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-=
alt:auto;mso-list:l7 level1 lfo3">
<em><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">=
From</span></em>: &quot;Waltermire, David A.&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:da=
vid.waltermire@DOMAIN.HIDDEN">david.waltermire at nist.gov</a>&gt;
<o:p></o:p></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;ms=
o-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l7 level1 lfo3">
<em><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">=
To</span></em>: &quot;Moriarty, Kathleen&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:kathle=
en.moriarty@DOMAIN.HIDDEN">kathleen.moriarty at emc.com</a>&gt;, &quot;Roma=
n D. Danyliw&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rdd@DOMAIN.HIDDEN">rdd at cert.org=
</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:mile@DOMAIN.HIDDEN">mile
 at ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mile@DOMAIN.HIDDEN">mile at ie=
tf.org</a>&gt; <o:p>
</o:p></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-mar=
gin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l7 level1 lfo3">
<em><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">=
Date</span></em>: Wed, 5 Feb 2014 21:43:46 &#43;0000
<o:p></o:p></li><li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;ms=
o-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l7 level1 lfo3">
<em><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">=
List-id</span></em>: &quot;Managed Incident Lightweight Exchange, IODEF ext=
ensions and RID exchanges&quot; &lt;mile.ietf.org&gt;
<o:p></o:p></li></ul>
</span>
<div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center">
<hr size=3D"2" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center">
</div>
<pre>Changing the subject to reflect the discussion thread.<o:p></o:p></pre=
>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>I just saw this message. Here is what I can vouch for as the NIST lead=
 for these efforts:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>NIST is continuing to support CPE as it has for the last few years. SC=
AP and a few other efforts are dependent on it, so this is critical. It has=
 not been defunded.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>NIST is working with the SWID community to advance the ISO specificati=
on efforts and to ensure that the necessary implementation guidance for SWI=
D tag producers and tool consumers is put in place.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>We see SWID tags as having synergies with the CPE effort. We are looki=
ng at methods to consume SWID tags, as software publishers create them, for=
 use in auto generating CPEs. This has significant advantages over the curr=
ent CPE methodology that largely involves investigating vulnerability repor=
ts and vendor product pages and documentation to generate CPE names. By gen=
erating CPE names in this way we can increase the fidelity and accuracy of =
the product data, using less human effort, making product identification in=
formation available as close to the publication of the software as possible=
.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>Our long-term plans are to maintain a mapping between SWID and CPE in =
the National Vulnerability Database. This information does not exist yet, b=
ut is in the planning stages. Such information will provide a transition pa=
th for the SCAP community and other that use CPE today to take greater adva=
ntages of the information that SWID offer including: a more robust product =
metadata model and footprint information including file names, versions, an=
d hashes.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>Please let me know if you have any questions.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Dave<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></pre>
<pre>&gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&gt; From: mile [<a href=3D"mailto:mile-bounces">mailto:mile-bounces</=
a> at ietf.org] On Behalf Of Moriarty, Kathleen<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&gt; Sent: Monday, January 27, 2014 5:40 PM<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&gt; To: Roman D. Danyliw; mile at ietf.org<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&gt; Subject: Re: [mile] @user-agent attribute<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&gt; <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&gt; CPE isn't funded anymore and may get folded in SWID.&nbsp; I don'=
t have the<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&gt; latest on this, but would not want to rely on something that may =
go away.&nbsp; Is<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&gt; anyone aware of the latest on CPE?<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&gt; <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&gt; Thanks,<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&gt; Kathleen<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&gt; <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&gt; -----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&gt; From: mile [<a href=3D"mailto:mile-bounces">mailto:mile-bounces</=
a> at ietf.org] On Behalf Of Roman D. Danyliw<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&gt; Sent: Monday, January 27, 2014 3:22 PM<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&gt; To: mile at ietf.org<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&gt; Subject: [mile] @user-agent attribute<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&gt; <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&gt; Hello!<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&gt; <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&gt; The -04 schema of 5070bis has the following comment in the defini=
tion of<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&gt; @user-agent in the Application and OperatingSystem classes.<o:p><=
/o:p></pre>
<pre>&gt; <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&gt; [begin comment]<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&gt; &quot;&lt;!-- CHANGE: Should UserAgent or HTTPUserAgent fit in So=
ftwareTypes?<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&gt; This is typically intended to mean servers, but the category seem=
s more<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&gt; appropriate than others.--&gt;&quot;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&gt; [end comment]<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&gt; <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&gt; SoftwareType is the complexType used to define System/Application=
 and<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&gt; Service/OperatingSystem.&nbsp; Lacking documentation in the text =
and going only<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&gt; on the name in the schema, it would appear that this attribute is=
 attempting<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&gt; to describe the &quot;User-Agent&quot; HTTP field per Section 14.=
43 of RFC2616.&nbsp; If<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&gt; there is a broader definition, could someone please talk us throu=
gh it.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&gt; <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&gt; With the addition of the Service/ApplicationHeader there appear t=
o be two<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&gt; ways to represent a User-Agent.&nbsp; Consider the following XML =
snippet below:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&gt; <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&gt; &lt;System&gt;...<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&gt; &lt;Service ip_protocol=3D&quot;80&quot;&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&gt; ... &lt;ApplicationHeader proto=3D&quot;80&quot; field=3D&quot;Us=
er-Agent&quot;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&gt; dtype=3D&quot;string&quot;&gt;Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.2; Win64;=
 x64)<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&gt; AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/32.0.1667.0<o:p></o=
:p></pre>
<pre>&gt; Safari/537.36&lt;/ApplicationApplication&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&gt; <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&gt; ... &lt;Application swid=3D&quot;xxx&quot; configid=3D&quot;xxx&q=
uot; vendor=3D&quot;Google&quot;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&gt; name=3D&quot;Chrome&quot; user-agent=3D&quot;Mozilla/5.0 (Windows=
 NT 6.2; Win64; x64)<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&gt; AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/32.0.1667.0 Safari/=
537.36&quot;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&gt; version=3D&quot;32.0.11667&quot;&gt; &lt;URL&gt;something&lt;/URL=
&gt; &lt;/Application&gt; &lt;/Service&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&gt; &lt;/System&gt;<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&gt; <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&gt; A few questions:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&gt; ** Does the data model need the @user-agent attribute if<o:p></o:=
p></pre>
<pre>&gt; ApplicationHeader can model it?<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&gt; ** Could @swid (defined as &quot;An identifier that can be used t=
o reference this<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&gt; software&quot;) be used for a User-Agent?<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&gt; ** What implementation guidance should be given about how @user-a=
gent<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&gt; should be set with Service/OperatingSystem?<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&gt; <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&gt; To share my own bias, the Application and OperatingSystem Class a=
re<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&gt; currently very poorly specified.&nbsp; I don't think we should co=
ntinue improving<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&gt; them.&nbsp; Instead, we should reference software through CPE<o:p=
></o:p></pre>
<pre>&gt; (<a href=3D"http://nvd.nist.gov/cpe.cfm">http://nvd.nist.gov/cpe.=
cfm</a>) or similar effort as is possible through the SCI-<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&gt; defined class Platform.&nbsp; For the time being, I would drop @u=
ser-agent.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&gt; <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&gt; Roman<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&gt; _______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&gt; mile mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&gt; mile at ietf.org<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mile">https://ww=
w.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mile</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&gt; <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&gt; _______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&gt; mile mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&gt; mile at ietf.org<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>&gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mile">https://ww=
w.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mile</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center">
<hr size=3D"2" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center">
</div>
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-=
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<strong><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quo=
t;">Follow-Ups</span></strong>:
<o:p></o:p>
<ul type=3D"circle">
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<a name=3D"01348"></a><a href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/mile/=
current/msg01348.html"><b>Re: [mile] CPE and SWID</b></a>
<o:p></o:p>
<ul type=3D"square">
<li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-=
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<em><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">=
From:</span></em> Blibbet<o:p></o:p></li></ul>
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Subject: Re: [mile] CPE and SWID
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Yes, you can simply ignore SWID. Continue with CPE.

Just like you should have rejected the Microsoft inclusion of PowerShell 
into NIST SCAP's OVAL. :-)

I believe you are incorrect. Perhaps you have been mislead by the SWID 
lobbyists? Have you joined yourself? Answer: probably not.

Re: cost, Wikipedia page on SWID:
----snip----
"The organization will act as a registration and certification authority 
for ISO/IEC 19770-2 software identifiation tags (SWID Tags) and will 
provide tools and services allowing all SAM eco-system members to take 
advantage of SWID tags faster, with a lower cost ($500 per year for 
individuals, $1,500 and up for organizations[6]) and with more industry 
compatibility than would otherwise be possible."
[6] http://tagvault.org/documents/2013/06/membership-information.zip
----snip----

Have you read the 40 pages of legal fine print required to join? How is 
this a good thing for IETF SACM and NIST SCAP-related standards?

Besides the freely-available XSD schema on their web site, are you able 
to access ANY SWID tags? Answer: No.

 From earlier in thread, the comments from Symantec -- one of SWID's 
founding corporations -- are fine for large commercial corporations. 
There are still massive SWID barriers for open source or Free Software. 
These barriers will ensure that only large corporations produce security 
software, which is bad now that the gov is finally realizing the value 
of open source.

I think one of their main main arguments for SWID -vs- CPE is that CPE's 
Microsoft namespace has errors? That's not a fault in CPE design, it's a 
fault for Micorosft, a SWID member, that has been relying on third 
parties to maintain their CPE namespace.

Again, NIST SCAP should not use SWID. IETF SACM should not use SWID. 
NIST SCAP may be going down this wrong path, but I hope IETF doesn't 
follow them.

Why give control over such critical metadata to a corporate trade group 
interested in making money and making barriers to access? Corporate-run 
industry trade groups that use standards bodies like ISO for legitimacy 
are not the kind of people that should be controlling key metadata for 
all computer security!

Thanks,
Lee

On 2/10/14 11:57 AM, Waltermire, David A. wrote:
> Blibbet,
>
> I don't think we can simply ignore SWIDs. In my personal opinion, SWIDs have many advantages over CPEs including:
>
> - Providing authoritative, high-fidelity software data generated at build time by the software creator/publisher. CPEs are commonly generated by 3rd parties in a labor intensive way by scraping vendor websites and vulnerability bulletins for software data that is often incomplete and inaccurate.
> - Providing more robust software metadata that goes beyond the 11 fields supported by CPE including tags/identification for patches which CPE doesn't support.
> - Normalizing the data representation for installed software on endpoints regardless of platform/software specific technologies.
> - Providing software footprint details including composite files, versions, and hashes. This is not something that CPE supports.
>
> Simply put, SWIDs provide greater support for the management of software across the deployment lifecycle than CPE allows for. This has both security and IT operational benefits. SWIDs allow for greater coverage and address the scalability concerns that currently exist with CPE.
>
> With SWID there is not a requirement to pay or join any trade group to participate. Software publishers are responsible for the creation and propagation of SWID tags they produce. There is not a requirement to centrally curate them like there is with the US Government curated CPE dictionary.
>
> The ISO specification is behind a paywall, which is the ISO model for publication. The IETF and ISO both reference each other's specifications. This should not be a significant barrier.
>
> The schema is freely available. You can access it here:
>
> http://standards.iso.org/iso/19770/-2/2009/schema.xsd
>
> TagVault is developing best practice guides and certification requirements to help interested software publishers to demonstrate the degree of information provided by a publisher's SWID tags to support various use cases. They have stated publically that they intend to make these documents publically available as they are produced. Participation in TagVault is not a requirement for SWID tag publication; it is simply a value added service for publishers and consumers if they choose to participate.
>
> I know of no US$500/year cost for use of CPE. Current CPE information is provided for use on a voluntary basis at no cost to the consumer at:
>
> http://nvd.nist.gov/cpe.cfm
>
> I hope this helps address your questions/concerns.
>
> Sincerely,
> Dave
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Blibbet [mailto:blibbet@gmail.com]
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2014 5:13 PM
>> To: Waltermire, David A.
>> Cc: mile@ietf.org
>> Subject: Re: [mile] CPE and SWID
>>
>>   > Please let me know if you have any questions.
>>
>> Will this long-term mapping between SWID and CPE mean that we can ignore
>> SWID and just use CPE?
>>
>> Will I have to pay and/or join the SWID trade group to access this
>> information? MITRE and NIST were goot at SCAP standards, making their data
>> and schemas available without the extra licenses and registration barriers
>> and fees. Do you have to pay ISO for access to their SWID standards? The last
>> time a TagVault evangelist came on this list to push SWID, they failed to make
>> any case for noncommercial use of SWID.
>> http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/sacm/current/msg00679.html
>>
>> SWID adds barriers, that'll make it difficult to create open source software,
>> especially Free Software, that uses SCAP/SACM.
>>
>> Does it still cost US$500/year for an individual to use CPE. The only "Open
>> Source" Microsoft mentions when they defend SWID is an internal project
>> (WIX), where they fund all the fees for it.
>>
>> This sounds bad. SCAP/SACM should not use CPE.
>>
>
>


From tony@yaanatech.com  Wed Feb 12 12:52:08 2014
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Subject: Re: [mile] CPE and SWID
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We seem to live in a world of parallel universes
and reinvention of platforms every generation.

The idea for globally unique software/application IDs
is compelling - as it has been for the past 30 years.
Since the CCITT/JTC1 meetings of the early 80s,
SWIDs have been pursued by different groups.  Perhaps
the first and most elegant SWIDs were created in the
OSI world.  They deserve cudos for being far-sighted
- even binding the SWIDs to PKI certificates, although
their platform had limited takeup in the marketplace.

As the years progressed, and the need for unique
software IDs grew, multiple organizations and
groups created their own SWID schemes and sought
to assert it in the marketplace.  Bob Khan's combination
of DOIs and Handles is perhaps the zenith of the SWID
concepts.  The 19770-2 based SWIDs are the latest
folks on the SWID block.

About two years ago, the largest standards body today
in the networking sector, as well as the constituents
with the most compelling need - 3GPP - undertook
an 18 month process to consider if they should
establish their own SWIDs.  In the end, they did not
pursue that course.

What they discovered was that there was a world of
autonomous parties that have adopted well known
and widely established SWIDs.  Especially significant
were the maintainers of the two largest application
platform OSs - IOS and Android - which have their
own widely implemented SWIDs.  So in the end, 3GPP
chose embrace this diverse, autonomous SWID world.
The result was promulgated in Rel. 11 of the world's
universal spec for mobile networks.  The materials -
although extensive - are difficult to find unless one
is familiar with 3GPP and has access to the materials.
Some summary slides with pointers are attached.

Although 19770-2 based SWIDs are not a bad approach,
it is incomprehensible that a global standards body -
especially the IETF - would embrace them as the only
solution to a complex need where there are already so
many equally compelling solutions.  The work of 3GPP
here is worth emulating.

--tony




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From stevek@tagvault.org  Wed Feb 12 13:39:52 2014
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From: Steve Klos <stevek@tagvault.org>
To: "mile@ietf.org" <mile@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [mile] CPE and SWID
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It appears there are some misunderstandings.

My comments will be bounded by [TagVault >] and [< TagVault} as I don't rea=
lly see any way to do a proper response to e-mails like this using this typ=
e of messaging system...

My comments are in-line in the message below.

-----Original Message-----
From: Blibbet [mailto:blibbet@gmail.com]=20
Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2014 11:00 AM
To: Waltermire, David A.
Cc: mile@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [mile] CPE and SWID

Yes, you can simply ignore SWID. Continue with CPE.

[TagVault >]=20

CPE's can certainly still be used - never said they could not be.  SWID tag=
s provide the data required and provided by publishers to construct the CPE=
 names, with a few key exceptions:

1) Not all data elements are structured in the same way - they will be cons=
istent, since they are provided by the publisher, but they will not be exac=
tly the same as the names that are created by the volunteers who create CPE=
 names today.

2) The data will be provided by the publishers - this ensures that the data=
 is consistently made available and will not change depending on who is cre=
ating the CPE name.

3) The data will link directly with inventory of software discovered from a=
 device.  Since there will be SWID tags installed on the device with the so=
ftware, those can be directly linked to CPE names.  There will be no more d=
ata scrubbing, nor assumptions of what matches what.  The data provided in =
the SWID tag will exactly match the CPE and any tools that are managing a d=
iscovery process, regardless of who makes the tool, will provide exactly th=
e same data!

[< TagVault}

Just like you should have rejected the Microsoft inclusion of PowerShell in=
to NIST SCAP's OVAL. :-)

I believe you are incorrect. Perhaps you have been mislead by the SWID lobb=
yists? Have you joined yourself? Answer: probably not.

[TagVault>]

TagVault.org is not a lobbying organization.  We are working with producers=
 and consumers to ensure the data structured is provided in a manner that w=
orks for both keystones who need to either create or use the data.

[< TagVault}

Re: cost, Wikipedia page on SWID:
----snip----
"The organization will act as a registration and certification authority fo=
r ISO/IEC 19770-2 software identifiation tags (SWID Tags) and will provide =
tools and services allowing all SAM eco-system members to take advantage of=
 SWID tags faster, with a lower cost ($500 per year for individuals, $1,500=
 and up for organizations[6]) and with more industry compatibility than wou=
ld otherwise be possible."
[6] http://tagvault.org/documents/2013/06/membership-information.zip
----snip----

[TagVault >]

Yes, that's what TagVault.org is.  There are other tool providers and other=
 approaches that can be used - with all of them ending up with exactly the =
same data structure and format.  There are open source tools on the market =
today that will create tags.  There are commercial tools on the market that=
 will create and install tags.  There are commercial tools that read tags. =
 TagVault.org is structured to ensure that the very large software provider=
s have a clear and concise definition for the amount of data that must be p=
rovided.  Smaller orgs are not likely to need this level of information, bu=
t with the disparity of platforms, dev team locations, dev processes, namin=
g conventions, languages used, etc, an organization like TagVault.org makes=
 sense.  There is absolutely no requirement for the company Blibbet works f=
or to join TagVault.org.  If Blibbet would like to help specify best practi=
ces, to test use cases, to work with IBM, HP, Microsoft, Symantec and with =
other SDO's, great - join as an individual member.  Unfortunately, in today=
's world there are costs to manage an organization - program managers by IE=
EE-ISTO, E&O insurance, resources to write, edit and distribute materials a=
nd tools, etc.  IETF manages funding through a different means - meeting fe=
es, meeting sponsors, and others.  There is money provided by someone, some=
where along the line to keep lights on and efforts moving forward.  At the =
moment, TagVault.org uses membership fees, that will change over time.  But=
 with all of that, there is absolutely no requirement for someone to be a m=
ember of TagVault.org in order to produce SWID tags.

[< TagVault}

Have you read the 40 pages of legal fine print required to join? How is thi=
s a good thing for IETF SACM and NIST SCAP-related standards?

[TagVault >]

it's not particularly that fine print - it's in a 12 point font :-).  It's =
also mostly boiler plate text on how a non-profit works.  TagVault.org is f=
ormed as an IEEE-ISTO program which means it has a program manager and a bo=
ard of directors to oversee how the program is run.  If anyone would like t=
o read the material, it tries to be very clear and very transparent about h=
ow the board operates, how working groups are formed, how membership works,=
 etc.  Non-profits require these types of rules to ensure they are operatin=
g on behalf of their membership.  Personally, I'd rather know how an organi=
zation works and what the expectations are than not.  I'm sure that the IET=
F has similar types of documents that define how its operations work.

[< TagVault}

Besides the freely-available XSD schema on their web site, are you able to =
access ANY SWID tags? Answer: No.

[TagVault >]

You are incorrect here!  Any software product that includes a SWID tag inst=
alls the tag along with the software.  If you have access to that software,=
 you have access to the tag.  This is one reason why this approach is so mu=
ch more scalable - data is provided by the publisher and there is no centra=
lized catalog that *must* be referenced.  Will there ever be a catalog put =
up by TagVault.org - perhaps - if that's something that members want and if=
 there are funds to pay for the development of such a repository.  I can ea=
sily see commercial and open source systems that create their own catalog a=
s well.  The key here is that the SWID tag travels with the software and pa=
tches, there is no after the fact work that's needed, nor is there any thir=
d party work that's needed.

[< TagVault}

 From earlier in thread, the comments from Symantec -- one of SWID's foundi=
ng corporations -- are fine for large commercial corporations.=20
There are still massive SWID barriers for open source or Free Software.=20
These barriers will ensure that only large corporations produce security so=
ftware, which is bad now that the gov is finally realizing the value of ope=
n source.

[TagVault >]

You may be surprised to hear me say, I agree with you, but I do.  TagVault.=
org is working on a few avenues to mitigate the issue of FOSS developers ha=
ving access to the materials they need and in having some added benefits th=
at come with SWID tags:

1) TagVault.org will publish a compendium for the standard.  It will not be=
 the official standard, but will provide the data required to understand th=
e data elements and attributes, know how they should be used and the detail=
s behind how the data is used by consumers.  This document will be availabl=
e to anyone.

2) The best practices document we are currently working on will also be ava=
ilable to the public.  The standard itself has to accommodate every use cas=
e where someone wants to conform to the standard, but the best practices gu=
ide will focus on what data elements and attributes need to be provided by =
a publisher to provide the most value to the SWID tag consumer.

3) Should there be a requirement to use SWID tags in software that's purcha=
sed by the US Government, the 19770-2 standard will be available for free (=
as mentioned in my last e-mail).

4) TagVault.org is working with a FOSS proponent to ensure that the revisio=
n provides added value for that community.  I won't go into detail here, bu=
t I can ask if there is a venue where these types of discussions are happen=
ing and point you toward that venue if you are interested.

One other thing - we do have a fairly strong open source presence on the IS=
O working group as there is a significant interest in having software that =
can be more automated from an IT management perspective.

Would love to have everything available right now, but it's a progressive d=
evelopment effort.

[< TagVault}

I think one of their main main arguments for SWID -vs- CPE is that CPE's Mi=
crosoft namespace has errors? That's not a fault in CPE design, it's a faul=
t for Micorosft, a SWID member, that has been relying on third parties to m=
aintain their CPE namespace.

[TagVault >]

There are a number of well-known issues with CPE's.  It's not just the Micr=
osoft namespace, it's most of the namespaces that have errors.  This also i=
sn't just a CPE issue, it's generally an issue of any system that attempts =
to use an archeological approach to software identification - all of these =
systems can get close, but they are almost never perfect.  They are also no=
t scalable.  Having said all that - if you want to keep using CPE's - great=
 - do so, the SWID tag data will provide vendor supplied data values that c=
an be used to construct normalized CPE names.  Other than TagVault.org help=
ing to ensure the revision of the standard allows for the data needed to cr=
eate CPE's - there's no TagVault.org involvement. =20

[< TagVault}

Again, NIST SCAP should not use SWID. IETF SACM should not use SWID.=20
NIST SCAP may be going down this wrong path, but I hope IETF doesn't follow=
 them.

Why give control over such critical metadata to a corporate trade group int=
erested in making money and making barriers to access? Corporate-run indust=
ry trade groups that use standards bodies like ISO for legitimacy are not t=
he kind of people that should be controlling key metadata for all computer =
security!

[TagVault >]

I take serious issue with the above statement for any number of reasons, bu=
t will limit my reply.  ISO is an international SDO, so is IETF - they both=
 have their respective focus areas and a variety of strengths and weaknesse=
s.  I would say that neither is perfect, nor would most any rational person=
 try to say they were.  I personally don't care too much about the standard=
s body I work with - what I personally am interested in is being able to fi=
x what, so far, has been a large and growing problem for IT - and that is t=
he standardized provision of software identification information.  I don't =
particularly care which SDO is managing the overall standards development p=
rocess, as long as there are clear rules to follow and I know where my work=
 fits into the overall process.  Further, the meta data that you're referri=
ng to is managed by the publishers of the software - who have a very signif=
icant vested interest in ensuring their software is easy to manage and that=
 it can be validated as being secure.  I would be more than happy to provid=
e details on how the process works, so you can see there is no requirement =
for companies to be a member of TagVault.org, nor is there a requirement fo=
r someone to buy the standard.  The key part of the SWID standard is the de=
finition of the data provided and the structure of how it's provided.  Beyo=
nd that, it's between the publisher and the consumer to define expectations=
. =20

I hope this provides some additional insights to those who cared to read to=
 the end. =20

There seem to be two approaches that are being promoted here:

CPE=20
  - Only available in a central repository
  - Curated by 3rd party individuals (who don't seem to manage CPE names as=
 a full time job, but as an added extra)
  - No strict approach towards normalization applied
  - Definition happens well after the software is released
  - No direct link that can be used to associate the CPE with software inve=
ntory
  - No CPE's defined for patches
  - No direct link between a CPE and where someone can automatically downlo=
ad patches
  - No ability to use inventory data  to know if patches are installed or n=
ot.
  - No commercial value for software publishers to define a CPE name for ea=
ch release
  - No ability to use signatures in the CPE to validate publisher, or other=
 app data
  - No ability to get to file level details for application data (note, thi=
s is not even close to being in scope for CPE's so really not fair)

SWID tags
  - No repository required - publishers provide SWID tag data with their so=
ftware making this unbelievably scalable
  - Defined by publisher and consistently applied by publisher
  - Normalization applied to many values - more possible, but need market s=
upport
  - Definition happens as part of the software release process
  - Direct link between meta data and software inventory
  - Full support for patches
  - Direct link (in revision) between SWID tag and the publisher location w=
here patches can be downloaded
  - Direct link between inventory data and patch installation checks
  - Lots of value for publishers (both commercial and FOSS) to provide SWID=
 tag data as it benefits many IT processes
  - Digital signatures of data required (plenty more to define here such as=
 how CA's are used, what algorithms are used, etc, but SWID tags can be sig=
ned by the publisher today - further refinement of requirements can be appl=
ied to best practices)
  - File level data provided when publishers include the file payload infor=
mation (based on customer demand).

Will let others on this list make the call.

Cheers,

SK

[< TagVault}

Thanks,
Lee

On 2/10/14 11:57 AM, Waltermire, David A. wrote:
> Blibbet,
>
> I don't think we can simply ignore SWIDs. In my personal opinion, SWIDs h=
ave many advantages over CPEs including:
>
> - Providing authoritative, high-fidelity software data generated at build=
 time by the software creator/publisher. CPEs are commonly generated by 3rd=
 parties in a labor intensive way by scraping vendor websites and vulnerabi=
lity bulletins for software data that is often incomplete and inaccurate.
> - Providing more robust software metadata that goes beyond the 11 fields =
supported by CPE including tags/identification for patches which CPE doesn'=
t support.
> - Normalizing the data representation for installed software on endpoints=
 regardless of platform/software specific technologies.
> - Providing software footprint details including composite files, version=
s, and hashes. This is not something that CPE supports.
>
> Simply put, SWIDs provide greater support for the management of software =
across the deployment lifecycle than CPE allows for. This has both security=
 and IT operational benefits. SWIDs allow for greater coverage and address =
the scalability concerns that currently exist with CPE.
>
> With SWID there is not a requirement to pay or join any trade group to pa=
rticipate. Software publishers are responsible for the creation and propaga=
tion of SWID tags they produce. There is not a requirement to centrally cur=
ate them like there is with the US Government curated CPE dictionary.
>
> The ISO specification is behind a paywall, which is the ISO model for pub=
lication. The IETF and ISO both reference each other's specifications. This=
 should not be a significant barrier.
>
> The schema is freely available. You can access it here:
>
> http://standards.iso.org/iso/19770/-2/2009/schema.xsd
>
> TagVault is developing best practice guides and certification requirement=
s to help interested software publishers to demonstrate the degree of infor=
mation provided by a publisher's SWID tags to support various use cases. Th=
ey have stated publically that they intend to make these documents publical=
ly available as they are produced. Participation in TagVault is not a requi=
rement for SWID tag publication; it is simply a value added service for pub=
lishers and consumers if they choose to participate.
>
> I know of no US$500/year cost for use of CPE. Current CPE information is =
provided for use on a voluntary basis at no cost to the consumer at:
>
> http://nvd.nist.gov/cpe.cfm
>
> I hope this helps address your questions/concerns.
>
> Sincerely,
> Dave
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Blibbet [mailto:blibbet@gmail.com]
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2014 5:13 PM
>> To: Waltermire, David A.
>> Cc: mile@ietf.org
>> Subject: Re: [mile] CPE and SWID
>>
>>   > Please let me know if you have any questions.
>>
>> Will this long-term mapping between SWID and CPE mean that we can=20
>> ignore SWID and just use CPE?
>>
>> Will I have to pay and/or join the SWID trade group to access this=20
>> information? MITRE and NIST were goot at SCAP standards, making their=20
>> data and schemas available without the extra licenses and=20
>> registration barriers and fees. Do you have to pay ISO for access to=20
>> their SWID standards? The last time a TagVault evangelist came on=20
>> this list to push SWID, they failed to make any case for noncommercial u=
se of SWID.
>> http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/sacm/current/msg00679.html
>>
>> SWID adds barriers, that'll make it difficult to create open source=20
>> software, especially Free Software, that uses SCAP/SACM.
>>
>> Does it still cost US$500/year for an individual to use CPE. The only=20
>> "Open Source" Microsoft mentions when they defend SWID is an internal=20
>> project (WIX), where they fund all the fees for it.
>>
>> This sounds bad. SCAP/SACM should not use CPE.
>>
>
>



From tony@yaanatech.com  Wed Feb 12 15:06:13 2014
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It costs CHF 196.00 to even look at the the
19770-2:2009 specification of SWIDs.
That's $217.66 cents at today's exchange rate.

Of course, that's just the starting price, as
it likely makes reference to other ISO
specs for which there are additional costs.

Out of curiosity, if use of the spec was of some
importance to USG parties, why wasn't ISO
forced to make it publicly available like the
Common Criteria specs?

What other IT/telecom identifier spec these
days has a several hundred dollar pricetag to
view it?

--tony


On 2/10/2014 2:57 PM, Waltermire, David A. wrote:
> The ISO specification is behind a paywall, which is the ISO model for p=
ublication. The IETF and ISO both reference each other's specifications. =
This should not be a significant barrier.
>



From nobody Thu Feb 13 09:48:27 2014
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Hello all, this is Daisuke.

  Here informs our draft, obtained knowledges from experimental
implementation and operation of an IODEF-capable incident
response management systems in my university CERT.

http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-daisuke-iodef-experiment-00

  Generated codes (by some code generators) are also available at
https://github.com/daisu-mi/IODEF-codegen

  I'd like to share about it on next IETF meeting.

Regards,
Daisuke

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: New Version Notification for draft-daisuke-iodef-experiment-00.txt
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2014 16:14:14 -0800
From: internet-drafts@ietf.org
To: Daisuke Miyamoto <daisu-mi@nc.u-tokyo.ac.jp>, Takeshi Takahashi 
<takeshi_takahashi@nict.go.jp>, "daisu-mi@nc.u-tokyo.ac.jp" 
<daisu-mi@nc.u-tokyo.ac.jp>, "Takeshi Takahashi" 
<takeshi_takahashi@nict.go.jp>


A new version of I-D, draft-daisuke-iodef-experiment-00.txt
has been successfully submitted by Daisuke Miyamoto and posted to the
IETF repository.

Name:		draft-daisuke-iodef-experiment
Revision:	00
Title:		Knowledge obtained from the implementation experience of an 
IODEF- capable incident response management system
Document date:	2014-02-12
Group:		Individual Submission
Pages:		7
URL: 
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-daisuke-iodef-experiment-00.txt
Status: 
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-daisuke-iodef-experiment/
Htmlized:       http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-daisuke-iodef-experiment-00


Abstract:
    This document explains our observation on the usability of IODEF
    [RFC5070], based on our experiments.  We aim at developing an IODEF-
    capable incident response management systems in order to facilitate
    incident response activities.  We started to design and implement the
    system for our university CERT, however, there are several technical
    issues while implementing and operating the system.  This document
    shares the observation from our proto-type implementation and
    provides new sight from operational aspects.

 



Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF Secretariat




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Steve,

In answer to your question, I don't represent any organization. I 
represent the use case of a open source project, specifically the more 
stringent case of a Free Software-licensed project, which usually 
consists of 2-5 people with zero budget. Big companies will have no 
problems with the barriers your organizion imposes (and I'm happy for 
all those non-profit income you earn from them!). But, as you admit, 
SWID is not usable for open source project use. And I do have an issue 
if SCAP or IETF SACM or related IETF standards use your stuff, as it 
currently exists.

Tony,

Speaking of parallel universes, there's also the Linux Foundation-based 
standard SPDX, which also tracks computer metadata, and might compete 
with CPE and SWID. Microsoft-based TagVault will likely have zero 
interest in a Linux Foundation-based standard, of course. ;-) I'd much 
rather see CPE mapped to SPDX, not SWID.

IETF/NIST:

So, as Steve of TagVault admits in his last msg, it is not viable for 
open source-based proejcts.

In previous msgs, I didn't even bring up the lack of transparency in the 
corporations that control this industry group. I can't find out that 
data, they try hard to keep that data from the public. I seem to recall 
it was started by Microsoft and the Business Software Alliance (BSA, the 
piracy lawyer trade group), but can't confirm this. There's also the 
issue of what patents and related legal barriers that the SWID tech has, 
I see nothing that makes it ready for IETF-based usage.

If IETF-based standards are happy to write-off open source 
implemenations, and NIST is happy to do likewise with SCAP, then you 
should adopt SWID today.

If you want SWID to be usable by open source projects, we need to wait 
for TagVault v.next. Fewer legal barriers, zero price barriers for open 
source projects. Complete transparency about the controlling 
corporations and intellectual property they're controlling. And a 
reference implementation of SWID-based open soruce project that is not 
hosted/funded by MSFT, that is capable of being added to the 
package/port list of an FSF.org-approved Linux distro, Debian at the least.

Until then, any IETF or NIST SCAP standards should completely ignore SWID.

Just like they ignore ICASI SWRF and other vendor-controlled 
non-standards that pretend to be ones.

In the mean time, you can keep using CPE, and ignore SWID. TagVault will 
write a batch file -- not a shell script, I'm fairly sure -- to do the 
mappings themselves, if they want to keep being important in this space.

I look forward to the day that SWID is usable by Free Software.

Thanks,
Lee


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Subject: [mile] I-D Action: draft-ietf-mile-rfc5070-bis-06.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
 This draft is a work item of the Managed Incident Lightweight Exchange Working Group of the IETF.

        Title           : The Incident Object Description Exchange Format v2
        Authors         : Roman Danyliw
                          Paul Stoecker
	Filename        : draft-ietf-mile-rfc5070-bis-06.txt
	Pages           : 131
	Date            : 2014-02-13

Abstract:
   The Incident Object Description Exchange Format (IODEF) defines a
   data representation that provides a framework for sharing information
   commonly exchanged by Computer Security Incident Response Teams
   (CSIRTs) about computer security incidents.  This document describes
   the information model for the IODEF and provides an associated data
   model specified with XML Schema.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mile-rfc5070-bis/

There's also a htmlized version available at:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mile-rfc5070-bis-06

A diff from the previous version is available at:
http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-mile-rfc5070-bis-06


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From: "Roman D. Danyliw" <rdd@cert.org>
To: "mile@ietf.org" <mile@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [mile] I-D Action: draft-ietf-mile-rfc5070-bis-06.txt
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Subject: [mile] FW:  I-D Action: draft-ietf-mile-rfc5070-bis-06.txt
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The changelog for -06 is as follows:

** (schema) Sorted attributes of System to align to the text
** (schema) Removed System@indicator-set-id
** (schema) Removed Service/{Email,EmailSubject, X-Mailer} in favor of Serv=
ice/EmailData
** (schema) Renamed Service/EmailInfo to EmailData
** (schema) Renamed Service@ip_protocol to @ip-protocol
** (schema) Removed Node/{NodeName,DateTime} and Service/DomainData in favo=
r of Node/DomainData (Issue #4)
** (schema) Added Expectation@action=3D{upgrade-software,rebuild-asset}
** (schema) Added Contact@role=3D"vendor"
** (schema) Added {Incident,Event}/Discovery and Discovery/DetectionPattern=
 (Issue #27)
** (editorial) Added Section 4.4 to describe incompatable changes between r=
fc5070 and rfc070bis
** (editorial) Changed text in Method class to address part (c) for Issue #=
22 (Issue #22)

Roman

-----Original Message-----
From: mile [mailto:mile-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of internet-drafts@ietf=
.org
Sent: Friday, February 14, 2014 12:01 AM
To: i-d-announce@ietf.org
Cc: mile@ietf.org
Subject: [mile] I-D Action: draft-ietf-mile-rfc5070-bis-06.txt


A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director=
ies.
 This draft is a work item of the Managed Incident Lightweight Exchange Wor=
king Group of the IETF.

        Title           : The Incident Object Description Exchange Format v=
2
        Authors         : Roman Danyliw
                          Paul Stoecker
	Filename        : draft-ietf-mile-rfc5070-bis-06.txt
	Pages           : 131
	Date            : 2014-02-13

Abstract:
   The Incident Object Description Exchange Format (IODEF) defines a
   data representation that provides a framework for sharing information
   commonly exchanged by Computer Security Incident Response Teams
   (CSIRTs) about computer security incidents.  This document describes
   the information model for the IODEF and provides an associated data
   model specified with XML Schema.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mile-rfc5070-bis/

There's also a htmlized version available at:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mile-rfc5070-bis-06

A diff from the previous version is available at:
http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-mile-rfc5070-bis-06


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio=
n until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/

_______________________________________________
mile mailing list
mile@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mile


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Subject: [mile] Draft agenda for MILE, IETF 89, Friday 7 March 2014
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Greetings, all,

The draft agenda for MILE has been posted at =
http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/89/agenda/agenda-89-mile, and is copied =
below. Please send any comments or questions to =
mile-chairs@tools.ietf.org.

Best regards,

Brian


MILE Agenda - IETF 89 London

Remote participation is available via meetecho; see

   http://ietf89.conf.meetecho.com
    =20
Please note the meeting takes place in UTC.

Friday 7 March, 11:50 - 13:20, Buckingham
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

I.      Welcome and Administrivia
------  ---------------------------------------------------------------
11:50   Welcome, Status, and Agenda Bash
   10m  Chairs (K. Moriarty, B. Trammell)

II.     Current Working Group Drafts
------  ---------------------------------------------------------------
12:00   draft-ietf-mile-rfc5070-bis
   20m  R. Danyliw

III.    Other Presentations
------  ---------------------------------------------------------------
12:20   draft-murillo-mile-cps-00
   15m  TBD for M. Murillo

12:35   draft-miyamoto-iodef-experiment
   15m  D. Miyamoto

12:50   draft-moriarty-mile-implementreport
   5m  K. Moriarty

12:55   draft-schaad-mile-iodef-plasma
   15m  T. Freeman

13:10   MILE + JOSE
   10m  T. Freeman

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From nobody Tue Feb 18 18:23:21 2014
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From: "Waltermire, David A." <david.waltermire@nist.gov>
To: "tony@yaanatech.com" <tony@yaanatech.com>, "mile@ietf.org" <mile@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [mile] CPE and SWID
Thread-Index: Ac8iuuT2GnSM5l/DSiW4GVRSwDSDnAABJZYAAPMpVfAAZhuXAAAD7fqAATh4s4A=
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2014 02:23:03 +0000
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References: <0958b539572e43eda472f6a3a8fd8382@BLUPR09MB038.namprd09.prod.outlook.com> <52F2B782.2080104@gmail.com> <e0b074f1073942db93c2c00e0c68d7b6@BLUPR09MB038.namprd09.prod.outlook.com> <52FBC492.8040700@gmail.com> <52FBDEF1.2060004@yaanatech.com>
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Subject: Re: [mile] CPE and SWID
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Going back to the start of this thread, what was proposed was to incorporat=
e ISO/IEC 19770-2 SWIDs as ONE method of identifying software in the Applic=
ation and OperatingSystem classes "using the SCI-defined class Platform". I=
 agree that we will never see 100% convergence on a single software identif=
ication approach across all use cases and communities of interest. But effo=
rts like SWID tagging and CPE do offer a degree of commonality across speci=
fic communities of interest and use cases. This should not be discounted he=
re. It seems to me that SWID tags should be included in this work, along wi=
th CPE, as a possible method to identify software in this context. There is=
 running code for both examples.

Dave


> -----Original Message-----
> From: mile [mailto:mile-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Tony Rutkowski
> Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2014 3:52 PM
> To: mile@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [mile] CPE and SWID
>=20
> We seem to live in a world of parallel universes and reinvention of platf=
orms
> every generation.
>=20
> The idea for globally unique software/application IDs is compelling - as =
it has
> been for the past 30 years.
> Since the CCITT/JTC1 meetings of the early 80s, SWIDs have been pursued b=
y
> different groups.  Perhaps the first and most elegant SWIDs were created =
in
> the OSI world.  They deserve cudos for being far-sighted
> - even binding the SWIDs to PKI certificates, although their platform had
> limited takeup in the marketplace.
>=20
> As the years progressed, and the need for unique software IDs grew,
> multiple organizations and groups created their own SWID schemes and
> sought to assert it in the marketplace.  Bob Khan's combination of DOIs a=
nd
> Handles is perhaps the zenith of the SWID concepts.  The 19770-2 based
> SWIDs are the latest folks on the SWID block.
>=20
> About two years ago, the largest standards body today in the networking
> sector, as well as the constituents with the most compelling need - 3GPP =
-
> undertook an 18 month process to consider if they should establish their =
own
> SWIDs.  In the end, they did not pursue that course.
>=20
> What they discovered was that there was a world of autonomous parties
> that have adopted well known and widely established SWIDs.  Especially
> significant were the maintainers of the two largest application platform =
OSs -
> IOS and Android - which have their own widely implemented SWIDs.  So in
> the end, 3GPP chose embrace this diverse, autonomous SWID world.
> The result was promulgated in Rel. 11 of the world's universal spec for m=
obile
> networks.  The materials - although extensive - are difficult to find unl=
ess one
> is familiar with 3GPP and has access to the materials.
> Some summary slides with pointers are attached.
>=20
> Although 19770-2 based SWIDs are not a bad approach, it is
> incomprehensible that a global standards body - especially the IETF - wou=
ld
> embrace them as the only solution to a complex need where there are
> already so many equally compelling solutions.  The work of 3GPP here is
> worth emulating.
>=20
> --tony
>=20
>=20


From nobody Wed Feb 19 16:13:26 2014
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From nobody Fri Feb 21 15:04:51 2014
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From: Steve Klos <stevek@tagvault.org>
To: "mile@ietf.org" <mile@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [mile] CPE and SWID
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+1

-----Original Message-----
From: Waltermire, David A. [mailto:david.waltermire@nist.gov]=20
Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2014 6:23 PM
To: tony@yaanatech.com; mile@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [mile] CPE and SWID

Going back to the start of this thread, what was proposed was to incorporat=
e ISO/IEC 19770-2 SWIDs as ONE method of identifying software in the Applic=
ation and OperatingSystem classes "using the SCI-defined class Platform". I=
 agree that we will never see 100% convergence on a single software identif=
ication approach across all use cases and communities of interest. But effo=
rts like SWID tagging and CPE do offer a degree of commonality across speci=
fic communities of interest and use cases. This should not be discounted he=
re. It seems to me that SWID tags should be included in this work, along wi=
th CPE, as a possible method to identify software in this context. There is=
 running code for both examples.

Dave


> -----Original Message-----
> From: mile [mailto:mile-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Tony Rutkowski
> Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2014 3:52 PM
> To: mile@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [mile] CPE and SWID
>=20
> We seem to live in a world of parallel universes and reinvention of=20
> platforms every generation.
>=20
> The idea for globally unique software/application IDs is compelling -=20
> as it has been for the past 30 years.
> Since the CCITT/JTC1 meetings of the early 80s, SWIDs have been=20
> pursued by different groups.  Perhaps the first and most elegant SWIDs=20
> were created in the OSI world.  They deserve cudos for being=20
> far-sighted
> - even binding the SWIDs to PKI certificates, although their platform=20
> had limited takeup in the marketplace.
>=20
> As the years progressed, and the need for unique software IDs grew,=20
> multiple organizations and groups created their own SWID schemes and=20
> sought to assert it in the marketplace.  Bob Khan's combination of=20
> DOIs and Handles is perhaps the zenith of the SWID concepts.  The=20
> 19770-2 based SWIDs are the latest folks on the SWID block.
>=20
> About two years ago, the largest standards body today in the=20
> networking sector, as well as the constituents with the most=20
> compelling need - 3GPP - undertook an 18 month process to consider if=20
> they should establish their own SWIDs.  In the end, they did not pursue t=
hat course.
>=20
> What they discovered was that there was a world of autonomous parties=20
> that have adopted well known and widely established SWIDs.  Especially=20
> significant were the maintainers of the two largest application=20
> platform OSs - IOS and Android - which have their own widely=20
> implemented SWIDs.  So in the end, 3GPP chose embrace this diverse, auton=
omous SWID world.
> The result was promulgated in Rel. 11 of the world's universal spec=20
> for mobile networks.  The materials - although extensive - are=20
> difficult to find unless one is familiar with 3GPP and has access to the =
materials.
> Some summary slides with pointers are attached.
>=20
> Although 19770-2 based SWIDs are not a bad approach, it is=20
> incomprehensible that a global standards body - especially the IETF -=20
> would embrace them as the only solution to a complex need where there=20
> are already so many equally compelling solutions.  The work of 3GPP=20
> here is worth emulating.
>=20
> --tony
>=20
>=20



From nobody Wed Feb 26 13:38:15 2014
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From: "Roman D. Danyliw" <rdd@cert.org>
To: "mile@ietf.org" <mile@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: How are email and file hashes computed?
Thread-Index: Ac8zOwbSCy75do86TZ2CV1Gz6W1CiA==
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2014 21:37:58 +0000
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Subject: [mile] How are email and file hashes computed?
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Hello!

Setting HashData@type=3D"email-hash" conveys that the combination of ds:Sig=
nature, ds:KeyInfo, or ds:Reference classes of the same HashData will descr=
ibe "[a]n email hash" of some form.  Over which part of the email is this h=
ash computed?  We currently fail to specify this detail.

The same question applies to when HashData@type=3D"file-hash".  In this cas=
e, I would propose we state that the "hash is computed over the entire cont=
ents of the file".

Roman


From nobody Wed Feb 26 13:42:39 2014
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From: "Roman D. Danyliw" <rdd@cert.org>
To: "mile@ietf.org" <mile@ietf.org>
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Subject: [mile] Review of Incident@purpose
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Hello!

In Issue #17 (http://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/mile/trac/ticket/17), we're tra=
cking the need to review the completeness of Incident@purpose in 5070bis.  =
In -06, it is defined as follows:

---[ snip from Section 3.2 ]--
   purpose
      Required.  ENUM.  The purpose attribute represents the reason why
      the IODEF document was created.  It is closely related to the
      Expectation class (Section 3.17).  This attribute is defined as an
      enumerated list:

      1.  traceback.  The document was sent for trace-back purposes.
      2.  mitigation.  The document was sent to request aid in
          mitigating the described activity.
      3.  reporting.  The document was sent to comply with reporting
          requirements.
      4.  watch.  The document was sent to convey indicators to watch
          for particular activity.
      5.  other.  The document was sent for purposes specified in the
          Expectation class.
      6.  ext-value.  An escape value used to extend this attribute.
          See Section 5.1.
--[ end ]--

Are there additional values the working would like to include?

Roman


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Subject: Re: [mile] How are email and file hashes computed?
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hi Roman,

the key question here is what's done in practice?

On 26 Feb 2014, at 22:37, Roman D. Danyliw <rdd@cert.org> wrote:

> Hello!
>=20
> Setting HashData@type=3D"email-hash" conveys that the combination of =
ds:Signature, ds:KeyInfo, or ds:Reference classes of the same HashData =
will describe "[a]n email hash" of some form.  Over which part of the =
email is this hash computed?  We currently fail to specify this detail.

What's commonly done here? I can see a case for body-only, headers-only, =
originator headers, or any combination of the three.=20

> The same question applies to when HashData@type=3D"file-hash".  In =
this case, I would propose we state that the "hash is computed over the =
entire contents of the file".

Is it ever (generally) useful to express something other than a hash =
over the whole file?

> Roman
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> mile mailing list
> mile@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mile


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From: "Roman D. Danyliw" <rdd@cert.org>
To: "mile@ietf.org" <mile@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Missing data elements useful for incident reporting
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Subject: [mile] Missing data elements useful for incident reporting
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Hello!

I cross-walked a few references describing the incident reporting process (=
e.g., NIST SP800-61 and CERT's Handbook for CSIRTs) and a number of operati=
onal reporting forms, and found that 5070bis can't easily represent these d=
ata fields:

(1) Status of an Incident (e.g., New/In Progress/Ended/Resolved/Unknown; Oc=
curring/Contained/Concluded/Future Threat)
(2) Consortium-specific incident categories -- consortiums defined label cl=
assifying this incident
(3) Mitigation factors -- a free form description on mitigating factors tha=
t influence the technical or business impact=20
(4) Distinguishing between the report time (e.g., time when this incident w=
as reported as occurring) vs. generation time (i.e., when this IODEF-Docume=
nt was created).
(5) Enumerating which organizations have been notified in the incident -- n=
eed to review current HistoryItem and Contact classes
(6) RecoveryTime -- the wall-clock timestamp of when the impact of the inci=
dent was remediated.
(7) Cause of the incident (e.g., misconfigured app, unpatched host) -- the =
SCI draft introduces Method/AdditionalData/Weakness and this may be suffici=
ent.

Does anyone feel we shouldn't add a particular data elements listed above t=
o the data model?

Roman


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From: "Harrington, Christopher" <Christopher.Harrington@emc.com>
To: "Roman D. Danyliw" <rdd@cert.org>, "mile@ietf.org" <mile@ietf.org>
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 11:37:03 -0500
Thread-Topic: Missing data elements useful for incident reporting
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Subject: Re: [mile] Missing data elements useful for incident reporting
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With respect to times there are 4 times that we track with regards to an
incident. 

1. Time the event (compromise) happened.
2. Time the event was discovered
3. Time when mitigations / response actions took place
4. Time of the indicator sharing (generation time)

Tracking time this way allows us to better understand and prioritize our
efforts. The time between #1 and #2 is what we call Dwell Time or Attacker
Free Time. We monitor that closely. 

For cause of incident we map all of ours to the VERIS framework. Makes for
much more consistent reporting and trend analysis. 

Thanks,

--Chris

Christopher Harrington
Consulting Security Engineer
GSO - Critical Incident Response Center
EMC
174 Middlesex Turnpike
Bedford, MA 01730
781-515-5862 (work)
603-583-1585 (cell)
-----Original Message-----
From: mile [mailto:mile-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Roman D. Danyliw
Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2014 11:16 AM
To: mile@ietf.org
Subject: [mile] Missing data elements useful for incident reporting

Hello!

I cross-walked a few references describing the incident reporting process
(e.g., NIST SP800-61 and CERT's Handbook for CSIRTs) and a number of
operational reporting forms, and found that 5070bis can't easily represent
these data fields:

(1) Status of an Incident (e.g., New/In Progress/Ended/Resolved/Unknown;
Occurring/Contained/Concluded/Future Threat)
(2) Consortium-specific incident categories -- consortiums defined label
classifying this incident
(3) Mitigation factors -- a free form description on mitigating factors that
influence the technical or business impact 
(4) Distinguishing between the report time (e.g., time when this incident
was reported as occurring) vs. generation time (i.e., when this
IODEF-Document was created).
(5) Enumerating which organizations have been notified in the incident --
need to review current HistoryItem and Contact classes
(6) RecoveryTime -- the wall-clock timestamp of when the impact of the
incident was remediated.
(7) Cause of the incident (e.g., misconfigured app, unpatched host) -- the
SCI draft introduces Method/AdditionalData/Weakness and this may be
sufficient.

Does anyone feel we shouldn't add a particular data elements listed above to
the data model?

Roman

_______________________________________________
mile mailing list
mile@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mile


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From: "Roman D. Danyliw" <rdd@cert.org>
To: "mile@ietf.org" <mile@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Redesign of indicators
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Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 06:49:44 +0000
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Subject: [mile] Redesign of indicators
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Hello!

Nearly a year ago, the challenge with adding additional indicator sharing c=
lasses to the existing incident reporting data model in IODEF was noted [1,=
=20
http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/mile/current/msg00985.html].  As we en=
umerate the outstanding actions to bring 5070bis to closure, this central i=
ssue needs to be resolved.  The text is littered with references to data el=
ements representing some part of "the incident" making it awkward for an im=
plementer solely interested in sharing indicators.  However, for all of the=
 interest in using IODEF to convey indicators,  two key constructs added=20
to the data model to support indicators (i.e., @indicator-uid/set-id and at=
tributes with "-watchlist" values) remain undocumented (see Issue #41 and #=
42).  Furthermore, Issue #14, to add predicate logic to these indicators is=
 unresolved.

This email is a _rough_ proposal to bridge these two use cases.  The summar=
y of this proposal is that we should think of indicators as being the produ=
ct of analyzing an incident.  Sometimes, an IODEF document will only descri=
be the specific events an incident; it might describe the incident and the =
indicators derived from it; or in another instance the details of the incid=
ent might not be shared at all but the derived indicators would be. =20

This proposal suggests that we move all indicator-specific information to a=
 new distinct class, IndicatorData, that is a child of Incident.  Indicator=
s can be described outright in this new class, or can be defined by referen=
ce by pointing to specific data (e.g., Address or DomainData)  already desc=
ribed elsewhere in the IODEF document.  This proposal addresses current ope=
n issues #14 (predicate logic for indicators) and #28 (specifying time wind=
ows for indicators) by suggesting a data model to cover these use cases.  I=
ssue #41 (documenting @indicator-* attributes) is resolved by redefining @i=
ndicator-uid and removing @indicator-set-id.  Issue #42 (documenting "-watc=
hlist" attributes) is resolved by removing all these attribute values as th=
ey are no longer necessary.

Consider the following XML-snippets to get a sense of how such an approach =
would look:

-------------[ Begin XML Examples ]-----------------
<EventData>
...
   <System>
     <Node>
        <DomainData observable-id=3D"observable-1">
          <Name>www4.example.com</Name>
        </DomainData>
     </Node>
   </System>

</EventData>
...
<IndicatorData>
  <!-- Indicator #1 (a watchlist) -->
  <!-- set of domain names as indicators -->
  <!--   shows an IndicatorExpression -->
  <Indicator>
      <IndicatorID version=3D"1.0">indicator-1</IndicatorID>
      <Description>My First Indicator</Description>
      <IndicatorExpression operator=3D"or">
         <Observable>
           <DomainData><Name>www1.example.com</Name></DomainData>
         </Observable>
         <Observable>
           <DomainData><Name>www2.example.com</Name></DomainData>
         </Observable>
         <Observable>
           <DomainData><Name>www3.example.com</Name></DomainData>
         </Observable>
      </IndicatorExpression>
  </Indicator>

  <!-- Indicator #2 -->
  <!-- just one domain name -->
  <Indicator>
      <IndicatorID version=3D"1.0">indicator-2</IndicatorID>
      <Description>My Second Indicator</Description>
      <Observable>
         <DomainData><Name>www1.example.com</Name></DomainData>
      </Observable>
  </Indicator>

  <!-- Indicator #3 -->
  <!-- just one domain name -->
  <Indicator>
      <IndicatorID version=3D"1.0">indicator-3</IndicatorID>
      <Description>My Third Indicator</Description>
      <Observable>
         <DomainData><Name>www1.example.com</Name></DomainData>
      </Observable>
  </Indicator>

  <!-- Indicator #4 -->
  <!-- just one domain name -->
  <Indicator>
      <IndicatorID version=3D"1.0">indicator-4</IndicatorID>
      <Description>My Fourth Indicator</Description>
      <Observable>
         <DomainData><Name>www1.example.com</Name></DomainData>
      </Observable>
  </Indicator>

  <!-- Indicator #5 -->
  <!-- equivalent to Indicator #1 but uses references to #2,3,4 -->
  <!--   shows an IndicatorReference -->
  <Indicator>
      <IndicatorID version=3D"1.0">indicator-5</IndicatorID>
      <Description>My Fifth Indicator</Description>
      <IndicatorExpression operator=3D"or">
         <IndicatorReference uid-ref=3D"indicator-2" />
         <IndicatorReference uid-ref=3D"indicator-3" />
         <IndicatorReference uid-ref=3D"indicator-4" />
      </IndicatorExpression>
  </Indicator>

  <!-- Indicator #6 -->
  <!-- pulls in an observable from EventData -->
  <!--    shows an ObservableReference -->
  <!--    shows the valid time interval -->
  <Indicator>
      <IndicatorID version=3D"1.0">indicator-6</IndicatorID>
      <Description>My Sixth Indicator</Description>
      <StartTime>2013-06-08T05:44:53-05:00</StartTime>
      <EndTime>2014-06-08T05:44:53-05:00</EndTime>
      <ObservableReference uid-ref=3D"observable-1" />
  </Indicator>

  <!-- Indicator #7 -->
  <!-- pulls in an external indicator not in this document -->
  <!--    shows an IndicatorReference@euid-ref -->
  <Indicator>
      <IndicatorID version=3D"1.0">indicator-7</IndicatorID>
      <Description>My Seventh Indicator</Description>
      <IndicatorReference euid-ref=3D"certcc-indicator-2390823094-23423" />
  </Indicator>

  <!-- Indicator #8 -->
  <!-- shows the expression: "(indicator-2 or indicator-3) AND indicator-4"
  <Indicator>
      <IndicatorID version=3D"1.0">indicator-8</IndicatorID>
      <Description>My Eight Indicator</Description>
      <IndicatorExpression operator=3D"and">
         <IndicatorExpression operator=3D"or">
           <IndicatorReference uid-ref=3D"indicator-2" />
           <IndicatorReference uid-ref=3D"indicator-3" />
         </IndicatorExpression>
         <IndicatorReference uid-ref=3D"indicator-4" />
      </IndicatorExpression>
  </Indicator>
</IndicatorData>
-------------[ End XML Examples ]-----------------

The following is rough text that describes the data model:

-------------[ Begin Draft Text ]-----------------


3.28.  IndicatorData Class

   The IndicatorData class describes the indicators identified from
   analysis of an incident.

   +--------------------------+
   | IndicatorData            |
   +--------------------------+
   |                          |<>--{1..*}--[ Indicator      ]
   +--------------------------+

   The aggregate class that constitutes IndicatorData is:

   Indicator=20
      One or more.  An indicator from the incident.

   The IndicatorData class has no attributes.

3.29.  Indicator Class

   The Indicator class describes a cyber indicator.  An indicator
   consists of observable features and phenomenon that aid in the
   forensic or proactive detection of malicious activity, and associated
   meta-data.  This indicator can be described outright or reference
   observable features and phenomenon described elsewhere in the
   incident information.  Portions of an incident description can be
   composed to define an indicator, as can the indicators themselves.

   +--------------------+
   | Indicator          |
   +--------------------+
   | ENUM restriction   |<>----------[ IndicatorID            ]
   |                    |<>--{0..1}--[ AlternativeIndicatorID ]
   |                    |<>--{0..*}--[ Description            ]
   |                    |<>--{0..1}--[ StartTime              ]   |        =
            |<>--{0..1}--[ EndTime                ]   |                   =
=20

|<>--{0..1}--[ Confidence             ]
   |                    |<>--{0..*}--[ Contact                ]
   |                    |<>--{0..1}--[ Observable             ]
   |                    |<>--{0..1}--[ IndicatorExpression    ]
   |                    |<>--{0..1}--[ ObservableReference    ]
   |                    |<>--{0..1}--[ IndicatorReference     ]
   |                    |<>--{0..*}--[ AdditionalData         ]
   +--------------------+

   The aggregate classes that constitute Indicator are:

   IndicatorID=20
      One.  An identifier for this indicator.  See Section 3.29.1

   AlternativeIndicatorID=20
      Zero or one.  TODO.  See Section 3.29.2

   Description=20
      Zero or more.  ML_STRING.  A free-form textual description of the
      indicator.

   StartTime       Zero or one.  DATETIME.  A timestamp of the start of the=
 time      period during which this indicator is valid.   EndTime      =20

Zero or one.  DATETIME. A timestamp fo the end of the time period      duri=
ng which this indicaor is valid.
   Confidence=20
      Zero or one.  An estimate of the confidence in the quality of the
      indicator.  See Section 3.14.5.

   Contact=20
      Zero or more.  Contact information for this indicator.  See
      Section 3.10.

   Observable=20
      Zero or one.  An observable feature or phenomenon of this
      indicator.  See Section 3.29.3.

   IndicatorExpression=20
      Zero or one.  A composition of observables.  See Section 3.29.4.

   ObservableReference=20
      Zero or one.  A reference to a feature or phenomenon defined
      elsewhere in the document.  See Section 3.29.5.

   IndicatorReference=20
      Zero or one.  A reference to an indicator.

   AdditionalData=20
      Zero or more.  Mechanism by which to extend the data model.  See
      Section 3.9

   The Indicator class MUST have exactly one instance of an Observable,
   IndicatorExpression, ObservableReference, or IndicatorReference
   class.

   The StartTime and EndTime classes can be used to define an interval   du=
ring which the indicator is valid.  If both classes are present,   the=20

indicator is consider valid only during the decribed interval.   If neither=
 class is provided, the indicator is considered valid   during any time=20

interval.  If only a StartTime is provided, the   indicator is valid anytim=
e after this timestamp.  If only an EndTime   is provided, the indicator is=
=20

valid anytime prior to this timestamp.
   The Indicator class has one attribute:

   restriction=20
      Optional.  ENUM.  See Section 3.3.1.

3.29.1.  IndicatorID Class

   The IndicatorID class uniquely identifies an indicator.  ... TODO
   Discuss if (1) a CSIRT needs to keep state to make this globally
   unique like an IncidentID.  (2) An indicator generated by a given
   CSIRT MUST NOT reuse the same value ...

   The body of this class describes the unique identifier for an
   indicator (... TODO ... an "ID" type is not defined but this is
   equivalent to xs:ID).  An indicator is unique identified by the
   identifier in the body and the associated value of the version
   attribute.

   +------------------+
   | IndicatorID      |
   +------------------+
   | ID               |
   |                  |
   | STRING version   |
   +------------------+

   The IndicatorID class has three attributes:

   version=20
      Required.  STRING.  A version number of an indicator.

3.29.2.  AlternativeIndicatorID Class

   The AlternativeIndicatorID class lists alternative identifiers for an
   indicator.

   +-------------------------+
   | AlternativeIndicatorID  |
   +-------------------------+
   | ENUM restriction        |<>--{1..*}--[ IndicatorReference ]
   |                         |
   +-------------------------+

   The aggregate class that constitutes AlternativeIndicatorID is:

   IndicatorReference=20
      One or more.  A reference to an indicator.

   The AlternativeIndicatorID class has one attribute:

   restriction=20
      Optional.  ENUM.  This attribute has been defined in Section 3.2.

3.29.3.  Observable Class

   The Observable class describes a feature and phenomenon that can be
   observed or measured for the purposes of detecting malicious
   behavior.

   +--------------------+
   | Observable         |
   +--------------------+
   |                    |<>--{0..1}--[ Address                     ]
   |                    |<>--{0..1}--[ DomainData                  ]
   |                    |<>--{0..1}--[ Service                     ]
   |                    |<>--{0..*}--[ EmailData                   ]
   |                    |<>--{0..1}--[ ApplicationHeader           ]
   |                    |<>--{0..*}--[ WindowsRegistryKeysModified ]
   |                    |<>--{0..1}--[ HashData                    ]
   |                    |<>--{0..1}--[ RecordData                  ]
   |                    |<>--{0..1}--[ Expectation                 ]
   |                    |<>--{0..1}--[ EventData                   ]
   |                    |<>--{0..1}--[ Incident                    ]
   |                    |<>--{0..1}--[ Reference                   ]
   |                    |<>--{0..1}--[ Assessment                  ]
   |                    |<>--{0..1}--[ HistoryItem                 ]
   |                    |<>--{0..*}--[ AdditionalData              ]
   +--------------------+

   The aggregate classes that constitute Observable are: ... TODO check
   the figure above while we discuss which classes to add here.  The
   figure lists every class that currently has an @indicator-uid.

   The Observable class MUST have exactly one of the possible child
   classes.

   The Observable class has no attributes.

3.29.4.  IndicatorExpression Class

   The IndicatorExpression describes an expression composed of observed
   phenomenon or features, or indicators.  Elements of the expression
   can be described directly, reference relevant data from other parts
   of a given IODEF document, or reference previously defined
   indicators.

   All child classes of a given instance of IndicatorExpression form a
   boolean algebraic expression where the operator between them is
   determined by the operator attribute.  Nesting an IndicatorExpression
   in itself is akin to a parenthesis in the expression.

   +--------------------------+
   | IndicatorExpression      |
   +--------------------------+
   | ENUM operator            |<>--{0..*}--[ IndicatorExpression  ]
   |                          |<>--{0..*}--[ Observable           ]
   |                          |<>--{0..*}--[ ObservableReference  ]
   |                          |<>--{0..*}--[ IndicatorReference   ]
   |                          |<>--{0..*}--[ AdditionalData       ]
   +--------------------------+

   The aggregate classes that constitute IndicatorExpression are:

   IndicatorExpression=20
      Zero or more.  TODO.

   Observable=20
      Zero or more.  TODO.

   ObservableReference=20
      Zero or more.  TODO.

   IndicatorReference=20
      Zero or more.  TODO.

   AdditionalData=20
      Zero or more.  Mechanism by which to extend the data model.  See
      Section 3.9

   The IndicatorExpression class MUST have exactly one of the possible
   child classes.  ... TODO Additional text is required to describe the
   valid combinations of classes ...

   The IndicatorExpression class has one attributes:

   operator=20
      Optional.  ENUM.  The operator.  TODO.

      1.  not.  negation operator.

      2.  and.  conjunction operator.

      3.  or.  disjunction operator.

3.29.5.  ObservableReference Class

   The ObservableReference describes a reference to an observable
   feature or phenomenon described elsewhere in the document.

   This class has no content.  ... TODO, @observable-id-ref uses an
   IDREF type, this is not yet defined in Section 2.  In schema it would
   be xs:IDREF .  We could also use xs:key ...

   +-------------------------+
   | ObservableReference     |
   +-------------------------+
   | EMPTY                   |
   |                         |
   | IDREF uid-ref           |
   +-------------------------+

   The ObservableReference class has one attributes:

   uid-ref=20
      Required.  IDREF.  An identifier that serves as a reference to a
      class in the IODEF document.  The referenced class will have this
      identifier set in the observable-id attribute (TODO, NOTE:
      currently this attribute is named @indicator-uid).

3.29.6.  IndicatorReference Class

   The IndicatorReference describes a reference to an indicator.  This
   reference may be to an indicator described in the IODEF document or
   in a previously exchanged IODEF document.

   +--------------------------+
   | IndicatorReference       |
   +--------------------------+
   | EMPTY                    |
   |                          |
   | IDREF uid-ref            |
   | STRING euid-ref          |
   | STRING version           |
   +--------------------------+

   The IndicatorReference class has one attributes:

   uid-ref=20
      Optional.  IDREF.  An identifier that serves as a reference to an
      Indicator class in the IODEF document.  The referenced Indicator
      class will have this identifier set in the IndicatorID class.

   euid-ref=20
      Optional.  STRING.  An identifier that references an IndicatorID
      not in this IODEF document.

   version=20
      Optional.  STRING.  A version number of an indicator.

   Either the uid-ref or the euid-ref attribute MUST be set.

-------------[ End Draft Text ]-----------------


Roman

