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, "mile@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Working group last call for ROLIE Thread-Index: AQHSqBrX3wNPiZjeRUuG2OC1scqiSqGtfp7Q Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2017 14:30:38 +0000 Message-ID: <59aeb29289274c4889f6e6ea9adaaa1a@XCH-ALN-010.cisco.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [64.102.61.63] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_59aeb29289274c4889f6e6ea9adaaa1aXCHALN010ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [mile] Working group last call for ROLIE X-BeenThere: mile@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Managed Incident Lightweight Exchange, IODEF extensions and RID exchanges" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2017 14:30:44 -0000 --_000_59aeb29289274c4889f6e6ea9adaaa1aXCHALN010ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" 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(Fed)" To: "Panos Kampanakis (pkampana)" , "mile@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Working group last call for ROLIE Thread-Index: AQHSqBrX3wNPiZjeRUuG2OC1scqiSqGtfp7QgBMRnxA= Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2017 15:07:31 +0000 Message-ID: References: <59aeb29289274c4889f6e6ea9adaaa1a@XCH-ALN-010.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <59aeb29289274c4889f6e6ea9adaaa1a@XCH-ALN-010.cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: cisco.com; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;cisco.com; dmarc=none action=none header.from=nist.gov; x-originating-ip: [129.6.227.79] x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; DM5PR09MB1308; 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"mile@ietf.org" , "Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwing)" Thread-Topic: [mile] Working group last call for XMPP-grid Thread-Index: AdKp0cx73PIO71MiRLmhQ3n63vW2uAIOpaBQ Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2017 20:12:50 +0000 Message-ID: References: <000901d2a9d1$eaff3ae0$c0fdb0a0$@nict.go.jp> In-Reply-To: <000901d2a9d1$eaff3ae0$c0fdb0a0$@nict.go.jp> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.116.108.4] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_ff6fa23946aa42ddb69af2f009aa8928XCHALN010ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [mile] Working group last call for XMPP-grid X-BeenThere: mile@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Managed Incident Lightweight Exchange, IODEF extensions and RID exchanges" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2017 20:12:55 -0000 --_000_ff6fa23946aa42ddb69af2f009aa8928XCHALN010ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Nancy and team, I hadn't gone through the doc before because of my lack of knowledge of XMP= P-Grid. I just went through it as a non-XMPP-Grid expert. Below I have some= comments and nits. I think the comments below would generated some signifi= cant changes to the doc, so it might not be ready for WGLC yet. * Nit: Add space in "[RFC6120]that" * Nit: "and among network platforms, endpoints, and most any network = connected device." Needs rephrasing. * Section 1.4 should address RID vs ROLIE vs XMPP-Grid. We have now d= efined 3 transports for IODEF documents, so I think it would be beneficial = to qualify where each one fits. * Change all references of [RFC5070] to IODEF-bis [RFC7970]. * In Section 3, I think it would be worth to expand on the IODEF-bis = attributes that could serve as filters. Also how Topics and Subtopics would= be defined in the context of IODEF. Would there be any rules in searching = for attributes that deep in IODEF classes like nodeRole attributes? * Nit: There is an empty parent bullet over "Real-time event notifica= tions through publish and subscribe." * I think section 2.6 should be in an appendix since it is mostly sho= wcasing example xml form. * In section 5.1.4, "Protect the confidentiality of the CA's private = key" is inaccurate. The CA signs the public key but does not know the priva= te key that corresponds to that public key. * In section 5.1.4, it is not clear what "Issue certificates that go = beyond name constraints or other constraints imposed by a relying party or = a cross-certificate" means. * In section 5.2.2, could sharing info with other nodes be one more t= hreat for the compromised XMPP-Node? * Section 5.3.1 mentions that both mutual cert auth or HTTP Basic are= acceptable, but section 2.4.1 only requires mutual cert auth. Are certs th= e only ones mandated? * In section 5.3.1 s/certificate-based authentication SHOULD each ver= ify the revocation status of the other party/certificate-based authenticati= on SHOULD each verify the revocation status of the other party's certificat= e * 5.3.1 does not define ARC and SSRC * 5.3.2 and 5.3.3 does not define TNC. A clarification question for my benefit: Is this draft intended to standard= ize XMPP-Grid and demonstrate its applicability in IODEF and other info sha= ring standards. Even though IODEF is one of the shared standards, the draft= mostly focuses on setting the XMPP-Grid protocol and architecture up. I wa= s curious if SACM had considered the draft back in the day as it is dealing= with more broad set of info sharing standards instead of MILE whose charte= r was focusing on IODEF mostly. No worries, since it already is a MILE WG i= tem anyway. Rgs, Panos -----Original Message----- From: mile [mailto:mile-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Takeshi Takahashi Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 11:50 PM To: mile@ietf.org Subject: [mile] Working group last call for XMPP-grid Hello all, This is a WGLC for draft-ietf-mile-xmpp-grid. The version to be reviewed is https://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-mile-xmpp-grid-02.txt We will have 1 month for this call. Please provide comments before May 1st and provide your support and/ or rai= se any issue you feel are yet to be addressed. Thank you. Take _______________________________________________ mile mailing list mile@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mile --_000_ff6fa23946aa42ddb69af2f009aa8928XCHALN010ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello Nancy and team,
 
I hadn’t gone through the doc before because of my lack of knowl= edge of XMPP-Grid. I just went through it as a non-XMPP-Grid expert. Below = I have some comments and nits. I think the comments below would generated s= ome significant changes to the doc, so it might not be ready for WGLC yet.
  • Nit: Add space in "[RFC6120]that"
  • Nit: "and amon= g network platforms, endpoints, and most any network connected device."= ; Needs rephrasing.
  • Section 1.4 should address RID vs ROLIE vs XMPP= -Grid. We have now defined 3 transports for IODEF documents, so I think it = would be beneficial to qualify where each one fits.
  • Change all ref= erences of [RFC5070] to IODEF-bis [RFC7970].
  • In Section 3, I think = it would be worth to expand on the IODEF-bis attributes that could serve as= filters. Also how Topics and Subtopics would be defined in the context of = IODEF. Would there be any rules in searching for attributes that deep in IO= DEF classes like nodeRole attributes?
  • Nit: There is an empty parent bullet over= “Real-time event notifications through publish and subscribe.”=
  • I think section 2.6 should be in an appendix since it is mostly sh= owcasing example xml form.
  • In section 5.1.4, “Protect the con= fidentiality of the CA's private key” is inaccurate. The CA signs the= public key but does not know the private key that corresponds to that publ= ic key.
  • In section 5.1.4, it is not clear what “Issue certifi= cates that go beyond name constraints or other constraints imposed by a rel= ying party or a cross-certificate” means.
  • In section 5.2.2, c= ould sharing info with other nodes be one more threat for the compromised X= MPP-Node?
  • Section 5.3.1 mentions that both mutual cert auth or HTTP= Basic are acceptable, but section 2.4.1 only requires mutual cert auth. Ar= e certs the only ones mandated?
  • In section 5.3.1 s/certificate-base= d authentication SHOULD each verify the revocation status of the other part= y/certificate-based authentication SHOULD each verify the revocation status= of the other party’s certificate
  • 5.3.1 does not define ARC a= nd SSRC
  • 5.3.2 and 5.3.3 does not define TNC.
 
A clarification question for my benefit: Is this draft intended to sta= ndardize XMPP-Grid and demonstrate its applicability in IODEF and other inf= o sharing standards. Even though IODEF is one of the shared standards, the = draft mostly focuses on setting the XMPP-Grid protocol and architecture up. I was curious if SACM had consi= dered the draft back in the day as it is dealing with more broad set of inf= o sharing standards instead of MILE whose charter was focusing on IODEF mos= tly. No worries, since it already is a MILE WG item anyway.
 
Rgs,
Panos
 
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: mile [mailto:mile-bounces@ie= tf.org] On Behalf Of Takeshi Takahashi
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 11:50 PM
To: mile@ietf.org
Subject: [mile] Working group last call for XMPP-grid
 
Hello all,
 
This is a WGLC for draft-ietf-mile-xmpp-grid.
The version to be reviewed is
 
We will have 1 month for this call.
Please provide comments before May 1st and provide your support and/ o= r raise any issue you feel are yet to be addressed.
 
Thank you.
Take
 
 
_______________________________________________
mile mailing list
 
 --_000_ff6fa23946aa42ddb69af2f009aa8928XCHALN010ciscocom_-- From nobody Mon Apr 17 02:38:11 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mile@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mile@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C0BB129C5C for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2017 02:38:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.698 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.698 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=isode.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2Dabat4w5zTa for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2017 02:38:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from waldorf.isode.com (waldorf.isode.com [62.232.206.188]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6BCFF129C59 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2017 02:38:08 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1492421887; d=isode.com; s=june2016; i=@isode.com; bh=S0J+LO7l9TqISzRiw+Xsc5xjCOXJWK9+K3QAs11rF1Q=; h=From:Sender:Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:To:Cc:MIME-Version: In-Reply-To:References:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description; b=pzno6aOKUjf5aFQgkutujl1DpRApcp/wkya7DNCpXEt77TDsN1jSDhlOsggdz97hlYZkF4 IvQKupuye+J5ImOlhbpPXE3eE5akGOtteo08bv4W/Js//8lMgNJmdxjcly9zko3B4MP+m/ cc6gMCyCjXiVRuyYlIcn1BVDQESVJxc=; Received: from [192.168.0.3] (cpc121086-nmal24-2-0-cust54.19-2.cable.virginm.net [77.97.145.55]) by waldorf.isode.com (submission channel) via TCP with ESMTPSA id ; Mon, 17 Apr 2017 10:38:07 +0100 To: mile@ietf.org Cc: Paul Hoffman , Matthew Miller From: Alexey Melnikov Message-ID: <58F48D0C.4060701@isode.com> Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2017 10:38:20 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: [mile] Review of draft-hoffman-dns-in-json-11 requested X-BeenThere: mile@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Managed Incident Lightweight Exchange, IODEF extensions and RID exchanges" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2017 09:38:09 -0000 Hi, I've been asked to AD sponsor this document as an Experimental RFC. MILE WG has expressed interest in this work in the past, so I would like to solicit reviews of the draft and general comments on whether publishing it as an RFC is a good idea. 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-0500 From: "Panos Kampanakis (pkampana)" To: "Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwing)" , "mile@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Working Group Last Call for IODEF Guidance Thread-Index: AQHSqBsdzaOykKabgkq+aGKpuqOHZKHNFIRQ Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2017 17:34:17 +0000 Message-ID: References: <7CE030B4-2629-4333-AEBA-3305D90FBBD0@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <7CE030B4-2629-4333-AEBA-3305D90FBBD0@cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [64.102.61.152] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_e1bffeb681064c5ab15c67ad3e50198fXCHALN010ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [mile] Working Group Last Call for IODEF Guidance X-BeenThere: mile@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Managed Incident Lightweight Exchange, IODEF extensions and RID exchanges" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 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--_000_e1bffeb681064c5ab15c67ad3e50198fXCHALN010ciscocom_-- From nobody Wed Apr 19 11:14:22 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mile@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mile@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC8CC129BAC for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2017 11:14:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.698 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.698 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ITTa5Ajxd6Tu for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2017 11:14:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-io0-x231.google.com (mail-io0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c06::231]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3DC4E1275AB for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2017 11:14:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-io0-x231.google.com with SMTP id o22so32777781iod.3 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2017 11:14:18 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=YevADBUYwsfq0yyKPx2rE4uBqQwds5ncN33XWM+CVOo=; b=QKXKjQYEfZqIIp2LQWeT86qbAYYma/FtpcfxO8NcpRyC3OIby2+oyHiRnlEfDKRxv/ G5/yIoqoi5l4wglydgwE77o+DZzNiUo90qGGtUHKbyYmRJTyi1WGispWCztfKCz/M3ur Pw2m7qjVmPr1e+bmQPMFlbxxwYUZHwodK/lFY7OiDPXhOMSWOfaySYoSnzGcVYHwhGf3 NQAHVEGbv6bUFzA2vVTvIy7/WhxBCk+OS2dpI2DH0otJYdMIEtgQ3VzpjrIwQCx7iPex sr/VTkmuh9VUtHeAgoN7STpXCXgIFou3RmijWokmqQp3RFK2386eMvZaBfZThVIEmKRP joeQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=YevADBUYwsfq0yyKPx2rE4uBqQwds5ncN33XWM+CVOo=; b=lR+WCD2ITU9s/sd4SC1gecXWDLbmLDWhAS8VtZlI2jHsdJvGyicIyQ9Eapw+0RuH0R tZWw4sbXx69hboMs457G09EXQ4LRWyOUl5n4N8/tY6LMWS4taVfhvb7N74VOoUVpE5UW jQHwv9qLKaH1yIkuIdjWTnFd2xpBX1q0QjJLQF5rWPpOr5Gn7wjAOtr2bHMSLXcO7QEj 68b2LeT144IfUElyyFWIzO4wsoQvGEkNc7oxJ7Tnjyb4+kUrFR/kYMUeeZxVEDht8Yy7 UXnAVXChgwEokzrLdlcVRlDOHrG3d5a57fg5bwWlyuU5UhMomDhL7/cqWegylvbb279B SuUg== X-Gm-Message-State: AN3rC/5snStJltHfuBeHoo194Sl5aH+/j8SrgVUBD2klYw64kEFzxhcH tm9VB1+KFM3SpTYBJhaIiheRS3N4Bw== X-Received: by 10.107.170.80 with SMTP id t77mr4853002ioe.113.1492625657295; Wed, 19 Apr 2017 11:14:17 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Adam Montville Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2017 18:14:06 +0000 Message-ID: To: "Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwing)" , "mile@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11415d58161bbe054d88fe29 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [mile] Working group last call for ROLIE X-BeenThere: mile@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Managed Incident Lightweight Exchange, IODEF extensions and RID exchanges" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2017 18:14:21 -0000 --001a11415d58161bbe054d88fe29 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi all. I've read through the entire draft and found it to be a decent draft. Keep in mind that I've not attempted an implementation, and must rely on implementers to pick out any technical impacts from this specification. That said, I have two broad categories of feedback. The first includes suggestions and concerns that are something more than nits. The second are really just nits and stylistic (i.e. take them or leave them) types of concerns. Suggestions/Concerns More Than Nits... Page 6: There are two similar terms in the second paragraph of section 4.2: "endpoint management system" and "endpoint monitoring system". Are they intended to be distinct, or interchangeable in this context? I could conclude either way, but if they are intended to be interchangeable, then I recommend picking and using one. Page 10: I've probably missed something along the way -- perhaps out of a secdir lunch or other discussion -- but it really seems like section 5.3 could be dramatically reduced by saying, follow RFC7589. There are a lot of non-ROLIE-specific things happening in this section, which mostly amount to good practice overall (so I don't necessarily mind having the information in here), but imagine this information being available in every draft intended to be, in part, secured using TLS. That sounds like a nightmare for managing requirements. Page 11: First paragraph at the top of that page (part of section 5.3) says, "The server MUST support certificate-based client authentication..." Why is this not a SHOULD? Yes, we'd like them to, but there are perfectly valid cases where they needn't support client authentication. Of course, if a proper TLS server implementation does this already, then my previous comment applies here as well. Page 11: First pargraph of section 5.4. A similar concern to the previous, the first sentence reads, "Implementations MUST support user authentication." Why not SHOULD? Again, there are valid cases where authentication is not, strictly speaking, needed. Page 12: Section 5.5 treats GET and POST, but ignores the other methods that may be treated similarly by stating, in section 5.6, "Servers MAY accept request methods beyond those specified in this document." Do we really want to leave those undefined? PUT? DELETE? I'm not an expert in this area, but PUT could be treated similarly to POST. DELETE is probably something that SHOULD be implemented only for user agents properly authenticated and authorized, etc. Sections 6.1 and 6.2 and maybe others I can't recall: These sections provide an informative syntax for a given element that is a "stricter representation" than the original RFC, but they don't ever really state which part of that element is stricter, which forces the reader out to that original RFC. If there is a way to make the statement right there, please do so. Page 15: First sentence of section 6.1.3 indicates that "the atom:updated element MUST be populated with the current time at the instant the Feed representation was last updated..." Is "instant" sufficient definition? Nits and Such... Page 5: Second sentence of section 3.2. Strike "However, " from the beginning. Page 5: Last sentence of section 3.2. Proposed change: "A non-normative RELAX NG Compact Schema..." or "An informative RELAX NG Compact Schema..." Page 5: Last sentence of only paragraph in Section 4 (proper). Proposed change: "...human-in-the-loop sharing arise...". It just reads funny (to me) using "become apparent" followed by something else that "becomes apparent". Page 19: First sentence of first bullet point in section 6.2.5. Proposed change: "...have an atom:link element...". Page 26: Last sentence in first paragraph of section 9. Proposed change: "...All that follows is guidance. More specific instruction is out of scope for this document." Page 26: The term CSIRT is used in the last paragraph on this page. Not sure whether we would prefer to use a more generalized example, as CSIRTs may not be the only type of sharing consortium. Kind regards, Adam On Tue, Mar 28, 2017 at 6:27 PM Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwing) < ncamwing@cisco.com> wrote: > Colleagues, > > > > Given the significant changes made to the last draft, we are doing another > 30day WGLC for > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mile-rolie-06 > > > > Please provide comments before May 1st and provide your support and/ or > raise any issue you feel are yet to be addressed. > > > > Regards, Nancy > _______________________________________________ > mile mailing list > mile@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mile > --001a11415d58161bbe054d88fe29 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi all.

I've read through the = entire draft and found it to be a decent draft. Keep in mind that I've = not attempted an implementation, and must rely on implementers to pick out = any technical impacts from this specification. That said, I have two broad = categories of feedback. The first includes suggestions and concerns that ar= e something more than nits. The second are really just nits and stylistic (= i.e. take them or leave them) types of concerns. =C2=A0

Suggestions/Concerns More Than Nits...

Page = 6: There are two similar terms in the second paragraph of section 4.2: &quo= t;endpoint management system" and "endpoint monitoring system&quo= t;. Are they intended to be distinct, or interchangeable in this context? I= could conclude either way, but if they are intended to be interchangeable,= then I recommend picking and using one.

Page 10: = I've probably missed something along the way -- perhaps out of a secdir= lunch or other discussion -- but it really seems like section 5.3 could be= dramatically reduced by saying, follow RFC7589. There are a lot of non-ROL= IE-specific things happening in this section, which mostly amount to good p= ractice overall (so I don't necessarily mind having the information in = here), but imagine this information being available in every draft intended= to be, in part, secured using TLS. That sounds like a nightmare for managi= ng requirements.

Page 11: First paragraph at the t= op of that page (part of section 5.3) says, "The server MUST support c= ertificate-based client authentication..." Why is this not a SHOULD? Y= es, we'd like them to, but there are perfectly valid cases where they n= eedn't support client authentication. Of course, if a proper TLS server= implementation does this already, then my previous comment applies here as= well.

Page 11: First pargraph of section 5.4. A s= imilar concern to the previous, the first sentence reads, "Implementat= ions MUST support user authentication." Why not SHOULD? Again, there a= re valid cases where authentication is not, strictly speaking, needed.

Page 12: Section 5.5 treats GET and POST, but ignores = the other methods that may be treated similarly by stating, in section 5.6,= "Servers MAY accept request methods beyond those specified in this do= cument." Do we really want to leave those undefined? PUT? DELETE? I= 9;m not an expert in this area, but PUT could be treated similarly to POST.= DELETE is probably something that SHOULD be implemented only for user agen= ts properly authenticated and authorized, etc.

Sec= tions 6.1 and 6.2 and maybe others I can't recall: These sections provi= de an informative syntax for a given element that is a "stricter repre= sentation" than the original RFC, but they don't ever really state= which part of that element is stricter, which forces the reader out to tha= t original RFC. If there is a way to make the statement right there, please= do so.

Page 15: First sentence of section 6.1.3 i= ndicates that "the atom:updated element MUST be populated with the cur= rent time at the instant the Feed representation was last updated..." = Is "instant" sufficient definition?


=
Nits and Such...

Page 5: Second sentenc= e of section 3.2. Strike "However, " from the beginning.

Page 5: Last sentence of section 3.2. Proposed change: &qu= ot;A non-normative RELAX NG Compact Schema..." or "An informative= RELAX NG Compact Schema..."

Page 5: Last sen= tence of only paragraph in Section 4 (proper). Proposed change: "...hu= man-in-the-loop sharing arise...". It just reads funny (to me) using &= quot;become apparent" followed by something else that "becomes ap= parent".

Page 19: First sentence of first bul= let point in section 6.2.5. Proposed change: "...have an atom:link ele= ment...".

Page 26: Last sentence in first par= agraph of section 9. Proposed change: "...All that follows is guidance= .=C2=A0 More specific instruction is out of scope for this document."<= /div>

Page 26: The term CSIRT is used in the last paragr= aph on this page. Not sure whether we would prefer to use a more generalize= d example, as CSIRTs may not be the only type of sharing consortium.
<= div>
Kind regards,

Adam

On Tue, Mar 28, 2017 at 6:27 PM Na= ncy Cam-Winget (ncamwing) <ncamwin= g@cisco.com> wrote:

Colleagues,<= u>

=C2=A0

Given the significa= nt changes made to the last draft, we are doing another 30day WGLC for

https://too= ls.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mile-rolie-06

=C2=A0

Please provide comm= ents before May 1st and provide your support and/ or raise any i= ssue you feel are yet to be addressed.

=C2=A0

Regards, Nancy

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--001a11415d58161bbe054d88fe29-- From nobody Wed Apr 19 11:27:23 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mile@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mile@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A9A2129BDD for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2017 11:27:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.698 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.698 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id l_JzxdjeXB4t for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2017 11:27:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-io0-x22c.google.com (mail-io0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c06::22c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 18C0D129BCE for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2017 11:27:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-io0-x22c.google.com with SMTP id k87so31654320ioi.0 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2017 11:27:20 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=rb1WLkbMxhhihJZp5TT+CoZTXUKrL+8K+rOa8G+Xdvc=; b=h6jmloHG5l/0kQvOM+qBnqj4iTEwKdBrsJsyo5WIgllzj3irspd9O+gnRHWs9WSkpr by5xSwGvduxJSooYk6md/iKjZoJZupRVzMBSDc1uqRcFWzCPTQ7QDFhE3VmdzJoZfYtc BhzWehdtPbvNiOLuuTOWS5UBGLEW9qZs63brRB9jZRtjQriWfiRCaYNJGCepAeXY/QDH pAJ0A392qa3SB+2zA7qBicavRqsOVRZCG70RFKUSVZcztU2368uRS5rR9KekKE8FSDWV 93cXMEaQ/7dB4wkyEbU5L4Z13lzBcfSH/ErDLu7FEpEe24HenweYX7xeUYQJDv7T//OR f2RA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=rb1WLkbMxhhihJZp5TT+CoZTXUKrL+8K+rOa8G+Xdvc=; b=sGXZ8oR0nK7bD38nuoXdQuYkZ7s3DiJgAnmSJ02X0twT53gEovZWARL0so72U3Pf/a a0QgdMP6DC82lPXsKqr/p/xnAa1Q2aqPoz15L/pA3FeK9au+9OWUAjnARH47GGGHBDsL hkO6GSDR1ju/9RUJ1Yq3MutQ9HaKoYA3ob8YuEZpZsEtMvYHqdwzoPGRvM8NECEcKqkP ksUnaDaSgfLazygS+9928C8K+g1gqKbgFHJtHitOBrC/zXgDEKpZH5i2XUEH7B4OQXXW Qgw+8OCdHXLhkjBO6uLWeYeXKc6R9oqRF3VpZvZD0oT+NiK/MoNwg19LWlXQyukybWb7 vsgQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AN3rC/6m9UWHhi2MNZaqjxar/i/YV/9k8L7s/wqbyfO9MagvJxQat0p9 8tt66KxIcHnx1zTVm4KcFOcfubuCqw== X-Received: by 10.36.37.147 with SMTP id g141mr22132804itg.69.1492626437799; Wed, 19 Apr 2017 11:27:17 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <7CE030B4-2629-4333-AEBA-3305D90FBBD0@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: From: Adam Montville Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2017 18:27:07 +0000 Message-ID: To: "Panos Kampanakis (pkampana)" , "Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwing)" , "mile@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a114535129b86f8054d892cd5 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [mile] Working Group Last Call for IODEF Guidance X-BeenThere: mile@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Managed Incident Lightweight Exchange, IODEF extensions and RID exchanges" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2017 18:27:22 -0000 --001a114535129b86f8054d892cd5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks for forwarding this on. I had not intended to comment off-list. Kind regards, Adam On Wed, Apr 19, 2017 at 12:34 PM Panos Kampanakis (pkampana) < pkampana@cisco.com> wrote: > For completeness, below is Adam=E2=80=99s review shared offline. We are p= lanning > to fix all his comments in the final iteration. > > > > ~~~~~~ > > Hi All, > > > > Here's my review. The draft is generally well written and sufficiently > organized. While I have not implemented IODEF, upon reading the draft I > felt as though there was enough information there to give appropriate, bu= t > not overly-prescriptive guidance to an implementer. > > > > I also found some language improvements/nits. Some are stylistic and may > have already been raised, so please take them only as suggestions. > Generally speaking, the draft seems ready to me. > > > > Abstract: Second to last sentence seems incomplete. Should the end of tha= t > sentence read: "...and use-cases of how IODEF is being used." (Adding > "used"). > > > > Page 3: First full paragraph, second sentence. Proposed text: "...IODEF > implementers to decide dwhich are important." > > > > Page 3: First full paragraph, fourth sentence: Proposed text: "...in rare > circumstances." > > > > Page 4: Second paragraph of Section 3.2, first sentence. Strike "has", so > that it reads "...if we have DDos as...". > > > > Page 5: First full paragraph. Proposed text: "...IndicatorData class and > its included classes..." Or whatever makes sense. > > > > Page 5: First paragraph of section 3.3, last sentence... Strike the 's' a= t > the end of "fulfills" > > > > Page 5: Third paragraph of section 3.3, first sentence. Proposed text: > "...Method, and RecoveryTime..." > > > > Page 6: First paragraph, section 4.1, second to last sentence. Proposed > text: "...representations into an IANA registry." > > > > Page 6: First paragraph, section 4.2, third sentence. Proposed text: > "Additional classes..." > > > > Page 6: Third paragraph, section 4.2. Proposed text: "...or importing the= m > in an IODEF document..." > > > > Page 6: Last sentence on that page of section 4.3. Proposed text: "...in > order to form a group of indicators that..." > > > > Page 7: Last sentence of first (partial) paragraph. Proposed text: > "...grouping more than one indicator or observable." > > > > Page 9: Paragraph after step 5. I think DDoS had already been defined, so > you could remove "Distributed Denial of Service" > > > > That's it. > > Kind regards, > > Adam > > ~~~~~~ > > > > > > *From:* mile [mailto:mile-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Nancy > Cam-Winget (ncamwing) > *Sent:* Tuesday, March 28, 2017 7:29 PM > *To:* mile@ietf.org > *Subject:* [mile] Working Group Last Call for IODEF Guidance > > > > Colleagues, > > > > We are doing another WGLC for > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-mile-iodef-guidance > > > > Please provide comments before May 1st and provide your support and/ or > raise any issue you feel are yet to be addressed. > > > > Regards, Nancy > > > _______________________________________________ > mile mailing list > mile@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mile > --001a114535129b86f8054d892cd5 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks for forwarding this on. I had not intended to comme= nt off-list.

Kind regards,

Adam=

On Wed, Apr 19, 2017 at= 12:34 PM Panos Kampanakis (pkampana) <pkampana@cisco.com> wrote:

For c= ompleteness, below is= Adam=E2=80=99s review shared offline. We are planning to fix all his comme= nts in the final iteration.

=C2=A0

~~~~~= ~

Hi All,

=C2=A0

Here's my revie= w. The draft is generally well written and sufficiently organized. While I = have not implemented IODEF, upon reading the draft I felt as though there w= as enough information there to give appropriate, but not overly-prescriptive guidance to an implementer. =C2=A0

=C2=A0

I also found some l= anguage improvements/nits. Some are stylistic and may have already been rai= sed, so please take them only as suggestions. Generally speaking, the draft= seems ready to me.

=C2=A0

Abstract: Second to= last sentence seems incomplete. Should the end of that sentence read: &quo= t;...and use-cases of how IODEF is being used." (Adding "used&quo= t;).

=C2=A0

Page 3: First full = paragraph, second sentence. Proposed text: "...IODEF implementers to d= ecide dwhich are important."

=C2=A0

Page 3: First full = paragraph, fourth sentence: Proposed text: "...in rare circumstances.&= quot;

=C2=A0

Page 4: Second para= graph of Section 3.2, first sentence. Strike "has", so that it re= ads "...if we have DDos as...".

=C2=A0

Page 5: First full = paragraph. Proposed text: "...IndicatorData class and its included cla= sses..." Or whatever makes sense.

=C2=A0

Page 5: First parag= raph of section 3.3, last sentence... Strike the 's' at the end of = "fulfills"

=C2=A0

Page 5: Third parag= raph of section 3.3, first sentence. Proposed text: "...Method, and Re= coveryTime..."

=C2=A0

Page 6: First parag= raph, section 4.1, second to last sentence. Proposed text: "...represe= ntations into an IANA registry."

=C2=A0

Page 6: First parag= raph, section 4.2, third sentence. Proposed text: "Additional classes.= .."

=C2=A0

Page 6: Third parag= raph, section 4.2. Proposed text: "...or importing them in an IODEF do= cument..."

=C2=A0

Page 6: Last senten= ce on that page of section 4.3. Proposed text: "...in order to form a = group of indicators that..."

=C2=A0

Page 7: Last senten= ce of first (partial) paragraph. Proposed text: "...grouping more than= one indicator or observable."

=C2=A0

Page 9: Paragraph a= fter step 5. I think DDoS had already been defined, so you could remove &qu= ot;Distributed Denial of Service"=C2=A0

=C2=A0

That's it.

Kind regards,

Adam<= /span>

~~~~~~<= /span>

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

From:= mile [mailto:mile-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwing)
Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2017 7:29 PM
To: mile@ietf.org=
Subject: [mile] Working Group Last Call for IODEF Guidance=

=C2=A0

Colleagues,

=C2=A0

We are doing anothe= r WGLC for https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-mi= le-iodef-guidance

=C2=A0

Please provide comm= ents before May 1st and provide your support and/ or raise any i= ssue you feel are yet to be addressed.

=C2=A0

Regards, Nancy

=C2=A0

_______________________________________________
mile mailing list
mile@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mile
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--001a114497229f1259054d9a2857 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Take and MILE WG, The following is a partial review of XMPP-grid (I'm still working through it). As with the ROLIE review there are two categories of items: Nits and Non-nits. Many are suggestive/inquisitive. Non-nits: The IODEF treatment in this draft is surprisingly light, though I understand. XMPP-grid as an agnostic transport cares not what goes through it. Then, why make this particular draft tied to IODEF at all? In other words, I don't think the draft would lose any value if section 3 were removed. On the other hand, it doesn't hurt to keep it in there (I just don't think it's necessary, in spite of being put through the MILE WG). No IANA considerations at this time? I think the group should probably settle on whether or not there are any before publication :-) If I were to offer any suggestion, it would be to consider (and this might be an entirely separate draft) establishing the start of a controlled capability vocabulary that could be stored in an IANA registry. I, at first, didn't like the openness of the topic/capability definition, but now I think I do. It's just going to be of limited overall value until disparate vendors start collaborating on their vocabulary. In the XMPP-Grid Topics Protocol Flow section on page 22, item 'a' implies that schemas need to be available for a given capability. Earlier in the draft, XMPP-Grid is stated as being suitable for structured and unstructured data. Is there a contention between these perspectives? The protocol details (section 2.6) were enough for me to get the gist of what's happening in the protocol, but having not tried to implement the specification, I can't really speak for whether the XML examples are complete enough to code against. How many implementations are there? Has anyone yet commented on the ability to implement from this specification? Nits Page 5: "Topics" definition at the top of the page. Proposed change: "...real-time to a set of subscribed devices." Page 5: XMPP-Grid Connection Agent definition. Proposed change: "...library that an XMPP-Grid node..." In fact, this is found throughout the draft, so a find/replace could help --> find "a XMPP-Grid" and replace with "an XMPP-Grid". Page 16: Consider rewording third sentence of section 2.4.1. Maybe there is a "the" missing... "...XMPP uses the Simple Authentication..." Page 16: Last sentence of last paragraph. Proposed change: "...trust to be uniquely established..." Page 19: Third sentence of first paragraph. Proposed change: "...Node identity extracted from the request, a group to which the Node is assigned during account approval, and Topic/capability to which the permission is sought..." Page 20: Last sentence of first paragraph. Proposed change: "...allows or disallows the flow..." Page 20: Last sentence on the page. Proposed change: "Based on this result..." or "Based on the result". Page 22: First sentence of item 'b' in section 2.5. Proposed change: "...if the subscriber wants...values in a capability provider's..." Page 23: Fifth sentence in first paragraph of section 2.5.1. Proposed change: "...nodes with older capabilities..." Kind regards, Adam On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 10:50 PM Takeshi Takahashi < takeshi_takahashi@nict.go.jp> wrote: > Hello all, > > This is a WGLC for draft-ietf-mile-xmpp-grid. > The version to be reviewed is > https://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-mile-xmpp-grid-02.txt > > We will have 1 month for this call. > Please provide comments before May 1st and provide your support and/ or > raise any issue you feel are yet to be addressed. > > Thank you. > Take > > > _______________________________________________ > mile mailing list > mile@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mile > --001a114497229f1259054d9a2857 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Take and MILE WG,

The following is a pa= rtial review of XMPP-grid (I'm still working through it). As with the R= OLIE review there are two categories of items: Nits and Non-nits. Many are = suggestive/inquisitive.

Non-nits:

The IODEF treatment in this draft is surprisingly light, though I = understand. XMPP-grid as an agnostic transport cares not what goes through = it. Then, why make this particular draft tied to IODEF at all? In other wor= ds, I don't think the draft would lose any value if section 3 were remo= ved. On the other hand, it doesn't hurt to keep it in there (I just don= 't think it's necessary, in spite of being put through the MILE WG)= .

No IANA considerations at this time? I think the= group should probably settle on whether or not there are any before public= ation :-) If I were to offer any suggestion, it would be to consider (and t= his might be an entirely separate draft) establishing the start of a contro= lled capability vocabulary that could be stored in an IANA registry.
<= div>
I, at first, didn't like the openness of the topic/c= apability definition, but now I think I do. It's just going to be of li= mited overall value until disparate vendors start collaborating on their vo= cabulary.

In the XMPP-Grid Topics Protocol Flow se= ction on page 22, item 'a' implies that schemas need to be availabl= e for a given capability. Earlier in the draft, XMPP-Grid is stated as bein= g suitable for structured and unstructured data. Is there a contention betw= een these perspectives?

The protocol details (sect= ion 2.6) were enough for me to get the gist of what's happening in the = protocol, but having not tried to implement the specification, I can't = really speak for whether the XML examples are complete enough to code again= st. How many implementations are there? Has anyone yet commented on the abi= lity to implement from this specification?=C2=A0

<= br>
Nits

Page 5: "Topics" defini= tion at the top of the page. Proposed change: "...real-time to a set o= f subscribed devices."

Page 5: XMPP-Grid Conn= ection Agent definition. Proposed change: "...library that an XMPP-Gri= d node..." In fact, this is found throughout the draft, so a find/repl= ace could help --> find "a XMPP-Grid" and replace with "a= n XMPP-Grid".

Page 16: Consider rewording thi= rd sentence of section 2.4.1. Maybe there is a "the" missing... &= quot;...XMPP uses the Simple Authentication..."

Page 16: Last sentence of last paragraph. Proposed change: "...trus= t to be uniquely established..."

Page 19: Thi= rd sentence of first paragraph. Proposed change: "...Node identity ext= racted from the request, a group to which the Node is assigned during accou= nt approval, and Topic/capability to which the permission is sought..."= ;

Page 20: Last sentence of first paragraph. Propo= sed change: "...allows or disallows the flow..."

Page 20: Last sentence on the page. Proposed change: "Based o= n this result..." or "Based on the result".

Page 22: First sentence of item 'b' in section 2.5. Propos= ed change: "...if the subscriber wants...values in a capability provid= er's..."

Page 23: Fifth sentence in first= paragraph of section 2.5.1. Proposed change: "...nodes with older cap= abilities..."

Kind regards,

Adam

On T= hu, Mar 30, 2017 at 10:50 PM Takeshi Takahashi <takeshi_takahashi@nict.go.jp> wrote:
Hello all,

This is a WGLC for draft-ietf-mile-xmpp-grid.
The version to be reviewed is
https://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-mile= -xmpp-grid-02.txt

We will have 1 month for this call.
Please provide comments before May 1st and provide your support and/ or
raise any issue you feel are yet to be addressed.

Thank you.
Take


_______________________________________________
mile mailing list
mile@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mile
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dW90ZT4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjwv ZGl2Pg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPC9k aXY+DQo8L2JvZHk+DQo8L2h0bWw+DQo= --_000_DM5PR09MB1307253E0E2F0707B83A06DCF01B0DM5PR09MB1307namp_-- From nobody Thu Apr 20 09:12:15 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mile@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mile@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3CD8127871 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 2017 09:12:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.701 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.701 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cridland.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id a-j1VjgbUBDL for ; Thu, 20 Apr 2017 09:12:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x22f.google.com (mail-wm0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::22f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 67AFE1287A3 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 2017 09:12:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x22f.google.com with SMTP id r190so52726992wme.1 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 2017 09:12:11 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cridland.net; s=google; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Qts5oE8PEALEjAevpUcpILpetDeYs8+Ezwl0JpRsqMo=; b=PE1mwiVIZKzyPFeb5QMLFcXfq9kKGsWAZZhthtIw2al8FnCRYFmN2h09/MNQQTpzQC jpK/ek9Y7qOThv55r79+hK2FcnFQt3dFSaumxmKU61wqlO+R+TUwAukgvRE7p0aJNI7p lzJsYLTqnghWdNEThAxvJF6LVwDkthRIp8yA4= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Qts5oE8PEALEjAevpUcpILpetDeYs8+Ezwl0JpRsqMo=; b=T/BtiL+uFD1wMtfTHPGZtbPPX/Q/VWLkP7UzpE/iChli90m3LJQyJb0AuEBL0QJUKP 3OBOWAYi6kUn8ivIN+8sEhbmU1xxvoRDWZlK76a/7ssvW/UlJGOSY9/NwI/1ZWm+oNKb vr7lqcRe0+FIsVtjhuF/EjQOIvOEncs1LHxiiWlbHXQMpha90nSrHr0C4PonDoNakZ7C FgjQBBcFsmkNdOKcmL6w832KRrdAgpC8pA3qfvHmFoo/L3M4fP7C0p/jP5JzVInAXMr0 PwtcCu2kmBrDDOEpw8pS/e5OvhTrVYOJP9VdPnFkEoTAyURp9ptuC9zIDn5RBrhDJ6cg 4SLw== X-Gm-Message-State: AN3rC/7RLHfmwbakAK33oIy4aTdOndDjegU2ZXSkDhAP7bq2cG5bQ1Z1 +8GHkb3wx2XGHuWo/pbAH9mmigmylnjrajM= X-Received: by 10.28.226.11 with SMTP id z11mr3876229wmg.91.1492704729819; Thu, 20 Apr 2017 09:12:09 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.136.53 with HTTP; Thu, 20 Apr 2017 09:12:09 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <000901d2a9d1$eaff3ae0$c0fdb0a0$@nict.go.jp> References: <000901d2a9d1$eaff3ae0$c0fdb0a0$@nict.go.jp> From: Dave Cridland Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2017 17:12:09 +0100 Message-ID: To: Takeshi Takahashi Cc: mile@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [mile] Working group last call for XMPP-grid X-BeenThere: mile@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Managed Incident Lightweight Exchange, IODEF extensions and RID exchanges" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2017 16:12:14 -0000 Folks, TL/DR: This shouldn't be published, possibly ever, certainly not in its current state. I remain bewildered as to what this specification offers above and beyond XEP-0060, and I cannot implement from this specification. This is, in part, because the document is written in essentially two parts - one describes how good it'll be once you've got it, and the other has some very lightweight sketches of what the protocol might look like if it were specified, and most of those appear to be reinventions of existing XMPP protocol extensions. An example is registration. The authors have elected to write their own registration protocol, rather than use XEP-0077. Perhaps this is needed, but it's not clear because the behaviour of a Controller when given a registration request isn't specified. I have no idea what a Controller is meant to do with the registration. Maybe register. But if I don't, does it work anyway? Who knows. It's in an XML namespace which appears to be, at best non-traditional, at worst illegal. The register element, despite being empty, is spelt out "in full" with both opening and closing tags, which seems odd - perhaps the serializer used does this and it's a cut and paste. Then there's a "login" and "logout". A "login" looks reasonable modulo the horrible use of incorrect XML namespacing, though again I have absolutely no idea what it might do, and what the requirement is here. The login result, on the other hand, is special - it's placed in the default namespace (ie, xmlns=3D""), which really should not be used. It contains a element, with a default-namespaced attribute. I didn't even know that was legal, so I'm impressed. The meaning of , and whether xsi:nil can also be set to "false", is not explained. Perhaps that's obvious. Typically, in XMPP, we have used presence to indicate client availability - but without knowing whether this is what's intended with the login/logout construct, I have no idea if that meets the requirements - it's only mentioned in passing in =C2=A72.4. The "getCapabilityListRequest", which is also in the default namespace, is another example of reinventing a perfectly serviceable wheel. XEP-0030 includes a full suite of discovery, and for that matter the XMPP community has been using "versioned" namespaces to offer parallel revisions of services for many years, with much success. In this entirely new capability discovery, however, the response includes a set of triples of "id", "name", and "version". None of these are explained. The example contains a lengthy list of capabilities, none of which seem to be documented anywhere. Next up - sorry, there's nothing so simple as section numbers here - there's DiscoveryQuery, which looks suspiciously like it might be a rendition of Java introspection over XMPP. It says it responds with a hostname; it doesn't, instead it responds with a Jid. Again, this kind of discovery is supported within XEP-0030 - it's a disco#items request, so not search-based, but the functionality is there nonetheless, and certainly doesn't need rewriting from scratch. Publisher registration is, I think, new - XEP-0060 does not have anything similar that I can immediately think of. Subscription, on the other hand, is very much within XEP-0060. I have literally no idea why this isn't used. Publishing actually does, here, use XEP-0060 - though no mention of the fact is made, and there's no documentation of the payload format. The security considerations section seems mostly OK, but please note that =C2=A75.3.1 suddenly decides to replace the transport layer with HTTP, which is mildly confusing to say the least. How we're supposed to authenticate over XMPP using an HTTP authentication mechanism is unknown. So what we have here is a vast amount of NIH, plus - if my understanding is correct - one added feature, that'd make a two-page XEP. This is *not* to say that XMPP has no place in CTI sharing; in fact I think it's very useful. But by departing from existing, well-defined XMPP protocol extensions, this specification promptly loses many advantages. As an example, while XEP-0060 provides a reasonably complete pubsub service on its own, it can be enhanced by XEP-0314 into permitting originator-controlled data labelling, which in turn can be used for access control, highly useful in federated environments. Instead of poorly describing a new protocol extension which duplicates existing work, it'd be much better if the document described how to use existing protocol effectively - and indeed, where the document is doing so, it works well. Dave. (Personal opinion, not as XMPP Council or XMPP Standards Foundation). On 31 March 2017 at 04:50, Takeshi Takahashi wrote: > Hello all, > > This is a WGLC for draft-ietf-mile-xmpp-grid. > The version to be reviewed is > https://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-mile-xmpp-grid-02.txt > > We will have 1 month for this call. > Please provide comments before May 1st and provide your support and/ or > raise any issue you feel are yet to be addressed. > > Thank you. > Take > > > _______________________________________________ > mile mailing list > mile@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mile From nobody Thu Apr 20 12:16:40 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mile@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mile@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EA6C129BA0 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 2017 12:16:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.698 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.698 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AC_DIV_BONANZA=0.001, BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id x8n7w_McZTSg for ; Thu, 20 Apr 2017 12:16:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-io0-x22e.google.com (mail-io0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c06::22e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 938301292F4 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 2017 12:16:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-io0-x22e.google.com with SMTP id r16so79659937ioi.2 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 2017 12:16:35 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=KCp4u7x1+ArCSdoxuVcfS546gwX1l/8TjFp0fpiPwnE=; b=W1+YptTiN1cb9xPUycHsM4XX/lxV/q7TQefGOxRKy4o74lrnghzgnNs9tS2o56btRJ cQ7f7TrM7OiRnWAPkkiBsUF8KlAyBDnH/bs/sQi8waWUUjku/JlrdpXBrf5+5K4uGRf8 vZtUks+Wu2f78Gafzp9nSPdlmZn+3uipaTVd8JMB8fcwpSWiWxsQ34NhevE0FsaYb1Kh Ewo1fLU2nOKSPflFtcEjiqyY28Z3jyquurGYlvcz69dGcXKPIyp+2HaEMxZyBCWN0iQY Gpc3MbzTG6GWzgzCXa7gwfvykTJU6PmCEw+/ZLAyTIy5l0GrUPZxNOChnat3TYqvGnDS UR4Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=KCp4u7x1+ArCSdoxuVcfS546gwX1l/8TjFp0fpiPwnE=; b=f2L1LtH22pPgECf8Xz9aks8Q62x7Uobjmi/W6/ID2mgowhAa/i+7NiYsWg2h66ScPc uQwyCmQ42b3o809pqlTZzoxKiRyqT3HRv8kkugzC4qi0drwOAWr/xWQP5vJeukB4KFCi 6efvtAp1ts/upXRMRPEnVZ38WFSJVjnyUEBLcEAeW90hzIoa5Xjj4qhw3oOCPxc8dl8A kB1jIpSda41yTOJ8+enBgrNBX/tsZDnxHIW2NPxBLiTurAedOYx2pDbjTvuPoHOstb0f +1Lhd3JxloN+J2elAAvsTkOjl2AZZYx2e2r8sJjA5x3KikV1sSzHQ3eMd2HkSfVS8Obl l4Hw== X-Gm-Message-State: AN3rC/6d0WHbq85KKcapEC+0TENcAHGGjKV3efaVOkjTwvL0lLNaI15c JSN7VYvTiid0zCqg4Qu6U6U6x8dAug== X-Received: by 10.36.178.1 with SMTP id u1mr5683929ite.12.1492715789262; Thu, 20 Apr 2017 12:16:29 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Adam Montville Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2017 19:16:18 +0000 Message-ID: To: "Banghart, Stephen A. (Fed)" , "mile@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f403045d9c0e5ea8be054d9dfae8 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [mile] Working group last call for ROLIE X-BeenThere: mile@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Managed Incident Lightweight Exchange, IODEF extensions and RID exchanges" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2017 19:16:38 -0000 --f403045d9c0e5ea8be054d9dfae8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable More inline :-) On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 10:57 AM Banghart, Stephen A. (Fed) < stephen.banghart@nist.gov> wrote: > Hey Adam, > > > > Thanks for the review, responses inline. > > > > -Stephen > > > > *From:* mile [mailto:mile-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Adam Montville > *Sent:* Wednesday, April 19, 2017 2:14 PM > > > *To:* Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwing) ; mile@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: [mile] Working group last call for ROLIE > > > > Hi all. > > > > I've read through the entire draft and found it to be a decent draft. Kee= p > in mind that I've not attempted an implementation, and must rely on > implementers to pick out any technical impacts from this specification. > That said, I have two broad categories of feedback. The first includes > suggestions and concerns that are something more than nits. The second ar= e > really just nits and stylistic (i.e. take them or leave them) types of > concerns. > > > > Suggestions/Concerns More Than Nits... > > > > Page 6: There are two similar terms in the second paragraph of section > 4.2: "endpoint management system" and "endpoint monitoring system". Are > they intended to be distinct, or interchangeable in this context? I could > conclude either way, but if they are intended to be interchangeable, then= I > recommend picking and using one. > > > > They were originally meant to be interchangeable, I=E2=80=99ve changed th= em both > to =E2=80=9Cendpoint management system=E2=80=9D to avoid confusion. > Thanks! > > > Page 10: I've probably missed something along the way -- perhaps out of a > secdir lunch or other discussion -- but it really seems like section 5.3 > could be dramatically reduced by saying, follow RFC7589. There are a lot = of > non-ROLIE-specific things happening in this section, which mostly amount = to > good practice overall (so I don't necessarily mind having the information > in here), but imagine this information being available in every draft > intended to be, in part, secured using TLS. That sounds like a nightmare > for managing requirements. > > > > We=E2=80=99ve selectively chosen pieces out of RFC7589 to put into ROLIE,= so > referencing the whole document may include unintended requirements. That > said, there may be a way to shorten this section slightly if you are > concerned about section length. > Understood. Also, my comments were not so much about length as about contributing to a potential rats nest of requirements. But, shortening would be good too. :-) > > > Page 11: First paragraph at the top of that page (part of section 5.3) > says, "The server MUST support certificate-based client authentication...= " > Why is this not a SHOULD? Yes, we'd like them to, but there are perfectly > valid cases where they needn't support client authentication. Of course, = if > a proper TLS server implementation does this already, then my previous > comment applies here as well. > > > > Page 11: First pargraph of section 5.4. A similar concern to the previous= , > the first sentence reads, "Implementations MUST support user > authentication." Why not SHOULD? Again, there are valid cases where > authentication is not, strictly speaking, needed. > > > > We decided that implementations MUST support the authentication in both o= f > these cases to maintain secure interoperability between implementations. = A > given ROLIE repo does *not* have to actually use the authentication. > Panos had similar comments to these two as well, so I=E2=80=99ve added a = paragraph > in section 2 that clarifies that all requirements in the ROLIE > specification are conformance requirements for implementations, and are n= ot > usage requirements. > Right, but therein is sort of the rub. Maybe it's a red herring, but if there's code sitting there that'll never really be used, isn't that a bad thing? > > > Page 12: Section 5.5 treats GET and POST, but ignores the other methods > that may be treated similarly by stating, in section 5.6, "Servers MAY > accept request methods beyond those specified in this document." Do we > really want to leave those undefined? PUT? DELETE? I'm not an expert in > this area, but PUT could be treated similarly to POST. DELETE is probably > something that SHOULD be implemented only for user agents properly > authenticated and authorized, etc. > > > > Section 5.5 only applies to requests sent to the =E2=80=9C/=E2=80=9D reso= urce to maintain > RID compatibility. GET,POST,PUT,DELETE,etc are all defined for general > usage in the Atom Publishing Protocol specification > > > > Sections 6.1 and 6.2 and maybe others I can't recall: These sections > provide an informative syntax for a given element that is a "stricter > representation" than the original RFC, but they don't ever really state > which part of that element is stricter, which forces the reader out to th= at > original RFC. If there is a way to make the statement right there, please > do so. > > > > The definitions for elements we=E2=80=99ve provided in ROLIE are full def= initions, > so a reader shouldn=E2=80=99t need to flip back to RFC4287 in order to ge= t the > whole picture. Any element defined in ROLIE does a full override of the > 4287 element, and any element not defined in ROLIE fully inherits from > 4287. Would it help if I added some text describing that relationship in > more detail somewhere? > It might, but I'm a voice of one, so if others are like "dude, what's this guy talking about?" then I wouldn't worry about it. > > > Page 15: First sentence of section 6.1.3 indicates that "the atom:updated > element MUST be populated with the current time at the instant the Feed > representation was last updated..." Is "instant" sufficient definition? > > > > Time being the beast that it is I=E2=80=99m not sure how to better descri= be the > requirement. Do you have any suggestions/recommendations on how to define > it? > LOL. Nope. If we're not concerned, then that's fine. Does the Atom spec indicate the timestamp format? That's probably sufficient. > > > Nits and Such... > > > > Page 5: Second sentence of section 3.2. Strike "However, " from the > beginning. > > > > Changed > > > > Page 5: Last sentence of section 3.2. Proposed change: "A non-normative > RELAX NG Compact Schema..." or "An informative RELAX NG Compact Schema...= " > > > > Added > > > > Page 5: Last sentence of only paragraph in Section 4 (proper). Proposed > change: "...human-in-the-loop sharing arise...". It just reads funny (to > me) using "become apparent" followed by something else that "becomes > apparent". > > > > Agreed, changed the sentence to avoid the repetition. > > > > Page 19: First sentence of first bullet point in section 6.2.5. Proposed > change: "...have an atom:link element...". > > > > Changed > > > > Page 26: Last sentence in first paragraph of section 9. Proposed change: > "...All that follows is guidance. More specific instruction is out of > scope for this document." > > > > Changed > > > > Page 26: The term CSIRT is used in the last paragraph on this page. Not > sure whether we would prefer to use a more generalized example, as CSIRTs > may not be the only type of sharing consortium. > > > > Agreed, changed to =E2=80=9Cconsortium=E2=80=9D. > > > > Kind regards, > > > > Adam > > > > On Tue, Mar 28, 2017 at 6:27 PM Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwing) < > ncamwing@cisco.com> wrote: > > Colleagues, > > > > Given the significant changes made to the last draft, we are doing anothe= r > 30day WGLC for > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mile-rolie-06 > > > > Please provide comments before May 1st and provide your support and/ or > raise any issue you feel are yet to be addressed. > > > > Regards, Nancy > > _______________________________________________ > mile mailing list > mile@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mile > > --f403045d9c0e5ea8be054d9dfae8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
More inline :-)

On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 10:57 AM Banghart, Stephen A. (Fed) <stephen.banghart@nist.gov>= ; wrote:

Hey Adam,

=C2=A0

Thanks for the review, responses inline.<= /u>

=C2=A0

-Stephen

=C2=A0

From: mile [mailto:mile-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Adam Montville
Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2017 2:14 PM

=


To: Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwing) <ncamwing@cisco.com>; mile@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [mile] Working group last call for ROLIE<= /span>

=C2=A0

Hi all.

=C2=A0

I've read through the entire draft and found it = to be a decent draft. Keep in mind that I've not attempted an implement= ation, and must rely on implementers to pick out any technical impacts from= this specification. That said, I have two broad categories of feedback. The first includes suggestions and concerns = that are something more than nits. The second are really just nits and styl= istic (i.e. take them or leave them) types of concerns. =C2=A0

=C2=A0

Suggestions/Concerns More Than Nits...=

=C2=A0

Page 6: There are two similar terms in the second pa= ragraph of section 4.2: "endpoint management system" and "en= dpoint monitoring system". Are they intended to be distinct, or interc= hangeable in this context? I could conclude either way, but if they are intended to be interchangeable, then I recommend picking a= nd using one.

=C2=A0

They were originally meant to be interchangeable, I= =E2=80=99ve changed them both to =E2=80=9Cendpoint management system=E2=80= =9D to avoid confusion.


Thanks!
=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Page 10: I've probably missed something along th= e way -- perhaps out of a secdir lunch or other discussion -- but it really= seems like section 5.3 could be dramatically reduced by saying, follow RFC= 7589. There are a lot of non-ROLIE-specific things happening in this section, which mostly amount to good practice ove= rall (so I don't necessarily mind having the information in here), but = imagine this information being available in every draft intended to be, in = part, secured using TLS. That sounds like a nightmare for managing requirements.

=C2=A0

We=E2=80=99ve selectively chosen pieces out of RFC7= 589 to put into ROLIE, so referencing the whole document may include uninte= nded requirements. That said, there may be a way to shorten this section slightly if you are concerned about section length.


Under= stood. Also, my comments were not so much about length as about contributin= g to a potential rats nest of requirements. But, shortening would be good t= oo. :-)
=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Page 11: First paragraph at the top of that page (pa= rt of section 5.3) says, "The server MUST support certificate-based cl= ient authentication..." Why is this not a SHOULD? Yes, we'd like t= hem to, but there are perfectly valid cases where they needn't support client authentication. Of course, if a proper TLS= server implementation does this already, then my previous comment applies = here as well.

=C2=A0

Page 11: First pargraph of section 5.4. A similar co= ncern to the previous, the first sentence reads, "Implementations MUST= support user authentication." Why not SHOULD? Again, there are valid = cases where authentication is not, strictly speaking, needed.

=C2=A0

We decided that implementations MUST suppor= t the authentication in both of these cases to maintain secure interoperabi= lity between implementations. A given ROLIE repo does not have to actually use the authentication. Panos had similar comme= nts to these two as well, so I=E2=80=99ve added a paragraph in section 2 th= at clarifies that all requirements in the ROLIE specification are conforman= ce requirements for implementations, and are not usage requirements.

=

Right, but therein is sort of the rub. May= be it's a red herring, but if there's code sitting there that'l= l never really be used, isn't that a bad thing?=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Page 12: Section 5.5 treats GET and POST, but ignore= s the other methods that may be treated similarly by stating, in section 5.= 6, "Servers MAY accept request methods beyond those specified in this = document." Do we really want to leave those undefined? PUT? DELETE? I'm not an expert in this area, but PUT could = be treated similarly to POST. DELETE is probably something that SHOULD be i= mplemented only for user agents properly authenticated and authorized, etc.=

=C2=A0

<= div>

Section 5.5 only applies to requ= ests sent to the =E2=80=9C/=E2=80=9D resource to maintain RID compatibility= . GET,POST,PUT,DELETE,etc are all defined for general usage in the Atom Pub= lishing Protocol specification

=C2=A0

Sections 6.1 and 6.2 and maybe others I can't re= call: These sections provide an informative syntax for a given element that= is a "stricter representation" than the original RFC, but they d= on't ever really state which part of that element is stricter, which forces the reader out to that original RFC. If there is= a way to make the statement right there, please do so.

=C2=A0

The definitions for e= lements we=E2=80=99ve provided in ROLIE are full definitions, so a reader s= houldn=E2=80=99t need to flip back to RFC4287 in order to get the whole pic= ture. Any element defined in ROLIE does a full override of the 4287 element, and any element= not defined in ROLIE fully inherits from 4287. Would it help if I added so= me text describing that relationship in more detail somewhere?


<= div>It might, but I'm a voice of one, so if others are like "dude,= what's this guy talking about?" then I wouldn't worry about i= t.

=C2=A0

=

=C2=A0

Page 15: First sentence of section 6.1.3 indicates t= hat "the atom:updated element MUST be populated with the current time = at the instant the Feed representation was last updated..." Is "i= nstant" sufficient definition?

=C2=A0

Time being the beast that it is I=E2=80=99m not sur= e how to better describe the requirement. Do you have any suggestions/recom= mendations on how to define it?


LOL. Nope. If we'= re not concerned, then that's fine. Does the Atom spec indicate the tim= estamp format? That's probably sufficient.
=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Nits and Such...

=C2=A0

Page 5: Second sentence of section 3.2. Strike "= ;However, " from the beginning.

=C2=A0

= Changed

=
=

=C2=A0

Page 5: Last sentence of section 3.2. Proposed chang= e: "A non-normative RELAX NG Compact Schema..." or "An infor= mative RELAX NG Compact Schema..."

=C2=A0

Added

=C2=A0

Page 5: Last sentence of only paragraph in Section 4= (proper). Proposed change: "...human-in-the-loop sharing arise...&quo= t;. It just reads funny (to me) using "become apparent" followed = by something else that "becomes apparent".

=C2=A0

Agreed, changed the sentence to avoid the repetition.=

=C2=A0

<= div>

Page 19: First sentence of first bullet point in sec= tion 6.2.5. Proposed change: "...have an atom:link element...".

=C2=A0

<= p class=3D"MsoNormal">Changed

=C2=A0

=

Page 26: Last sentence in first paragraph of section= 9. Proposed change: "...All that follows is guidance.=C2=A0 More spec= ific instruction is out of scope for this document."

=C2=A0

=

Changed

=C2=A0

Page 26: The term CSIRT is used in the last paragrap= h on this page. Not sure whether we would prefer to use a more generalized = example, as CSIRTs may not be the only type of sharing consortium.

=C2=A0

Agreed, changed to =E2=80=9Cco= nsortium=E2=80=9D.

=C2=A0

Kind regards,

=C2=A0

Adam

=C2=A0

On Tue, Mar 28, 2017 at 6:27 PM Nancy Cam-Winget (nc= amwing) <ncamwin= g@cisco.com> wrote:

Colleagues,<= u>

=C2=A0

Given the significa= nt changes made to the last draft, we are doing another 30day WGLC for

https://too= ls.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mile-rolie-06

=C2=A0

Please provide comm= ents before May 1st and provide your support and/ or raise any i= ssue you feel are yet to be addressed.

=C2=A0

Regards, Nancy

_______________________________________________
mile mailing list
mile@ietf.org
ht= tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mile

--f403045d9c0e5ea8be054d9dfae8-- From nobody Fri Apr 21 09:47:17 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mile@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mile@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B4AB129513 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 2017 09:47:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AC_DIV_BONANZA=0.001, BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=pivotal-io.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XrgB57aDw2QV for ; Fri, 21 Apr 2017 09:47:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-oi0-x235.google.com (mail-oi0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c06::235]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9F54F129A92 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 2017 09:47:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-oi0-x235.google.com with SMTP id j201so102818548oih.2 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 2017 09:47:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=pivotal-io.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=guXwmg+HheU8N3fp2ujCdEBBOhEpKgykTW+o3NGchCo=; b=lgyCW9lAGAlLC1fq2HmMsYGGW9Cy2DrbpoDnrnBGjRjacquS/0jnaocXMRE/rPmjcb e5l5DhMnNyzZGlq5HEBTmyIz8kDAw0PHJWgL0RbW2Jf+UtrwjH0vHkEePZXkgDlHIJQb 4Xn0v2czvjdwVh9GSCHtziWcM+S4KmS0DaErkii4S8S8hGVnaZuNybfW4JTU8NjWXaCS +Dc9uQFN2Gd40jgiu++4keu5913yuPGurQanICSWqaEbIQt3J/8eSZyrUX+zb3zrjzH0 Ks7zSI6w4nG42Dc9qeD/aXUv4J0/9G3tPHyan2wH36a0nJyOm1FfhK0njwQV07vIXMe1 ikZg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=guXwmg+HheU8N3fp2ujCdEBBOhEpKgykTW+o3NGchCo=; b=VpIuSfqa+5R4vXfMGUPy8F6ZaZLwvx0VFJo+LtSDdXum1uu0n5C84OIsXdfFbN1+J4 7mleovU+Q8WGuOzn+TMrk+7+AiCJ2jT2CDxU91T53/XajzgEI15aL2qYULz9BJeYL0s4 amztw8aVfVyJZ7MZsotzhlMRhxtAEbcgZ90ZDI9TDP7Ky7e4Ou/w2/9Z23sMwwzgaXaQ hQlns+EzZFn36Xfvu+safzw39VKz+4gxJ7EpADuvCey/y/WLlQfrDT8V2RFKwTnUu/O3 aDKTPdGddCtBodglV7dzPedpPWV7yz4hFE0ivXPquht21pmrxRgYD71JLMTk/BkGVFVF 91wQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AN3rC/6wAqNncipZjziCg0SCmzbIVV8YnuWIRTG3uaIhHw9j6lFcJ1V0 JAEzG6jblvcaECKNw2NNxWX73eQJmabr X-Received: by 10.202.197.78 with SMTP id v75mr8419856oif.37.1492793229736; Fri, 21 Apr 2017 09:47:09 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.188.74 with HTTP; Fri, 21 Apr 2017 09:47:09 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: John Field Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2017 12:47:09 -0400 Message-ID: To: Adam Montville Cc: "Banghart, Stephen A. (Fed)" , "mile@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113e47e22e9bb0054db00263 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [mile] Working group last call for ROLIE X-BeenThere: mile@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Managed Incident Lightweight Exchange, IODEF extensions and RID exchanges" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2017 16:47:14 -0000 --001a113e47e22e9bb0054db00263 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi All, Thanks Adam for the review comments. With regard to your specific comments on page 11 of the draft, i.e. MUST versus SHOULD, this is a very good point. I too struggled with this question in the earlier drafts. I can see the motivation to not exclude legitimate use cases or specific deployments that for whatever reason might not require mutually authenticated TLS. But, at the end of the day, I agree with Stephen's response that as ROLIE is a security service endpoint, we should keep this as a MUST in terms of conformance. Here's my rationale= : In general, we want to raise the bar -- in terms of current best practice, and use "TLS everywhere." This ensures privacy (and, depending upon specific cipher suite, perfect forward secrecy). Going the next step, and requiring mutually authenticated TLS, helps by defining at least 1 specific, and consistent client authentication mechanism, and so should promote better interoperability. As a practical matter, there are many tools and libraries available to implementers, and so the associated certificate issuance is just not as big a burden as it might first seem. Also, ensuring data integrity will be an important security characteristic for any ROLIE implementation. Although specific audit requirements are out of scope, requiring mutually authenticated TLS will provide a standards-based way for a server to associate an identity with a client endpoint and provide accountability/audit of client actions. This could be useful as a remember-me, even if the identity provisioning process does not involve strong vetting. Of course, implementations may choose to support additional authentication mechanisms as needed. There is a brief discussion of this in the 3rd paragraph of section 9, security considerations, where guidance is given to align the client authentication requirement to the threat model. Regards, John On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 3:16 PM, Adam Montville wrote: > More inline :-) > > On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 10:57 AM Banghart, Stephen A. (Fed) < > stephen.banghart@nist.gov> wrote: > >> Hey Adam, >> >> >> >> Thanks for the review, responses inline. >> >> >> >> -Stephen >> >> >> >> *From:* mile [mailto:mile-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Adam Montvill= e >> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 19, 2017 2:14 PM >> >> >> *To:* Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwing) ; mile@ietf.org >> *Subject:* Re: [mile] Working group last call for ROLIE >> >> >> >> Hi all. >> >> >> >> I've read through the entire draft and found it to be a decent draft. >> Keep in mind that I've not attempted an implementation, and must rely on >> implementers to pick out any technical impacts from this specification. >> That said, I have two broad categories of feedback. The first includes >> suggestions and concerns that are something more than nits. The second a= re >> really just nits and stylistic (i.e. take them or leave them) types of >> concerns. >> >> >> >> Suggestions/Concerns More Than Nits... >> >> >> >> Page 6: There are two similar terms in the second paragraph of section >> 4.2: "endpoint management system" and "endpoint monitoring system". Are >> they intended to be distinct, or interchangeable in this context? I coul= d >> conclude either way, but if they are intended to be interchangeable, the= n I >> recommend picking and using one. >> >> >> >> They were originally meant to be interchangeable, I=E2=80=99ve changed t= hem both >> to =E2=80=9Cendpoint management system=E2=80=9D to avoid confusion. >> > > Thanks! > > >> >> >> Page 10: I've probably missed something along the way -- perhaps out of = a >> secdir lunch or other discussion -- but it really seems like section 5.3 >> could be dramatically reduced by saying, follow RFC7589. There are a lot= of >> non-ROLIE-specific things happening in this section, which mostly amount= to >> good practice overall (so I don't necessarily mind having the informatio= n >> in here), but imagine this information being available in every draft >> intended to be, in part, secured using TLS. That sounds like a nightmare >> for managing requirements. >> >> >> >> We=E2=80=99ve selectively chosen pieces out of RFC7589 to put into ROLIE= , so >> referencing the whole document may include unintended requirements. That >> said, there may be a way to shorten this section slightly if you are >> concerned about section length. >> > > Understood. Also, my comments were not so much about length as about > contributing to a potential rats nest of requirements. But, shortening > would be good too. :-) > > >> >> >> Page 11: First paragraph at the top of that page (part of section 5.3) >> says, "The server MUST support certificate-based client authentication..= ." >> Why is this not a SHOULD? Yes, we'd like them to, but there are perfectl= y >> valid cases where they needn't support client authentication. Of course,= if >> a proper TLS server implementation does this already, then my previous >> comment applies here as well. >> >> >> >> Page 11: First pargraph of section 5.4. A similar concern to the >> previous, the first sentence reads, "Implementations MUST support user >> authentication." Why not SHOULD? Again, there are valid cases where >> authentication is not, strictly speaking, needed. >> >> >> >> We decided that implementations MUST support the authentication in both >> of these cases to maintain secure interoperability between implementatio= ns. >> A given ROLIE repo does *not* have to actually use the authentication. >> Panos had similar comments to these two as well, so I=E2=80=99ve added a= paragraph >> in section 2 that clarifies that all requirements in the ROLIE >> specification are conformance requirements for implementations, and are = not >> usage requirements. >> > > Right, but therein is sort of the rub. Maybe it's a red herring, but if > there's code sitting there that'll never really be used, isn't that a bad > thing? > > > >> >> >> Page 12: Section 5.5 treats GET and POST, but ignores the other methods >> that may be treated similarly by stating, in section 5.6, "Servers MAY >> accept request methods beyond those specified in this document." Do we >> really want to leave those undefined? PUT? DELETE? I'm not an expert in >> this area, but PUT could be treated similarly to POST. DELETE is probabl= y >> something that SHOULD be implemented only for user agents properly >> authenticated and authorized, etc. >> >> >> >> Section 5.5 only applies to requests sent to the =E2=80=9C/=E2=80=9D res= ource to maintain >> RID compatibility. GET,POST,PUT,DELETE,etc are all defined for general >> usage in the Atom Publishing Protocol specification >> >> >> >> Sections 6.1 and 6.2 and maybe others I can't recall: These sections >> provide an informative syntax for a given element that is a "stricter >> representation" than the original RFC, but they don't ever really state >> which part of that element is stricter, which forces the reader out to t= hat >> original RFC. If there is a way to make the statement right there, pleas= e >> do so. >> >> >> >> The definitions for elements we=E2=80=99ve provided in ROLIE are full >> definitions, so a reader shouldn=E2=80=99t need to flip back to RFC4287 = in order to >> get the whole picture. Any element defined in ROLIE does a full override= of >> the 4287 element, and any element not defined in ROLIE fully inherits fr= om >> 4287. Would it help if I added some text describing that relationship in >> more detail somewhere? >> > > It might, but I'm a voice of one, so if others are like "dude, what's thi= s > guy talking about?" then I wouldn't worry about it. > > > >> >> >> Page 15: First sentence of section 6.1.3 indicates that "the atom:update= d >> element MUST be populated with the current time at the instant the Feed >> representation was last updated..." Is "instant" sufficient definition? >> >> >> >> Time being the beast that it is I=E2=80=99m not sure how to better descr= ibe the >> requirement. Do you have any suggestions/recommendations on how to defin= e >> it? >> > > LOL. Nope. If we're not concerned, then that's fine. Does the Atom spec > indicate the timestamp format? That's probably sufficient. > > >> >> >> Nits and Such... >> >> >> >> Page 5: Second sentence of section 3.2. Strike "However, " from the >> beginning. >> >> >> >> Changed >> >> >> >> Page 5: Last sentence of section 3.2. Proposed change: "A non-normative >> RELAX NG Compact Schema..." or "An informative RELAX NG Compact Schema..= ." >> >> >> >> Added >> >> >> >> Page 5: Last sentence of only paragraph in Section 4 (proper). Proposed >> change: "...human-in-the-loop sharing arise...". It just reads funny (to >> me) using "become apparent" followed by something else that "becomes >> apparent". >> >> >> >> Agreed, changed the sentence to avoid the repetition. >> >> >> >> Page 19: First sentence of first bullet point in section 6.2.5. Proposed >> change: "...have an atom:link element...". >> >> >> >> Changed >> >> >> >> Page 26: Last sentence in first paragraph of section 9. Proposed change: >> "...All that follows is guidance. More specific instruction is out of >> scope for this document." >> >> >> >> Changed >> >> >> >> Page 26: The term CSIRT is used in the last paragraph on this page. Not >> sure whether we would prefer to use a more generalized example, as CSIRT= s >> may not be the only type of sharing consortium. >> >> >> >> Agreed, changed to =E2=80=9Cconsortium=E2=80=9D. >> >> >> >> Kind regards, >> >> >> >> Adam >> >> >> >> On Tue, Mar 28, 2017 at 6:27 PM Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwing) < >> ncamwing@cisco.com> wrote: >> >> Colleagues, >> >> >> >> Given the significant changes made to the last draft, we are doing >> another 30day WGLC for >> >> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mile-rolie-06 >> >> >> >> Please provide comments before May 1st and provide your support and/ or >> raise any issue you feel are yet to be addressed. >> >> >> >> Regards, Nancy >> >> _______________________________________________ >> mile mailing list >> mile@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mile >> >> > _______________________________________________ > mile mailing list > mile@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mile > > --=20 John P. Field | Security PM | Pivotal Direct: (908) 962-3394 | jfield@ pivotal.io --001a113e47e22e9bb0054db00263 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi All,=C2=A0

Thanks Adam for the revie= w comments. =C2=A0

With regard to your specific co= mments on page 11 of the draft, i.e. MUST versus SHOULD, this is a very goo= d point.=C2=A0 I too struggled with this question in the earlier drafts.=C2= =A0=C2=A0I can see the motivation to not exclude legitimate use cases or sp= ecific deployments that for whatever reason might not require mutually auth= enticated TLS.=C2=A0 But, at the end of the day, I agree with Stephen's= response that as ROLIE is a security service endpoint, we should keep this= as a MUST in terms of conformance.=C2=A0 Here's my rationale:

In general, we want to raise the bar -- in terms of curren= t best practice, and use "TLS everywhere." =C2=A0This ensures pri= vacy (and, depending upon specific cipher suite, perfect forward secrecy). = Going the next step, and requiring mutually authenticated TLS, helps by def= ining at least 1 specific, and consistent client authentication mechanism, = and so should promote better interoperability. =C2=A0

<= div>As a practical matter, there are many tools and libraries available to = implementers, and so the associated certificate issuance is just not as big= a burden as it might first seem.=C2=A0

Also, ensu= ring data integrity will be an important security characteristic for any RO= LIE implementation.=C2=A0 Although specific audit requirements are out of s= cope, requiring mutually authenticated TLS will provide a standards-based w= ay for a server to associate an identity with a client endpoint and provide= accountability/audit of client actions. This could be useful as a remember= -me, even if the identity provisioning process does not involve strong vett= ing.=C2=A0

Of course, implementations may choose t= o support additional authentication mechanisms as needed.=C2=A0 There is a = brief discussion of this in the 3rd paragraph of section 9, security consid= erations,=C2=A0where guidance is given to align the client authentication r= equirement to the threat model. =C2=A0

Regards,
John
=C2=A0=C2=A0
<= br>
On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 3:16 PM, Adam Montvil= le <adam.w.montville@gmail.com> wrote:
More inline :-)

On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 10:= 57 AM Banghart, Stephen A. (Fed) <stephen.banghart@nist.gov> wrote:
=

Hey Adam,

=C2=A0

Thanks for the review, responses inline.<= /u>

=C2=A0

-Stephen

=C2=A0

From: mile [mailto:mile-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Adam Montville
Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2017 2:14 PM

=


To: Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwing) <ncamwing@cisco.com>; mile@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [mile] Working group last call for ROLIE<= /span>

=C2=A0

Hi all.

=C2=A0

I've read through the entire draft and found it = to be a decent draft. Keep in mind that I've not attempted an implement= ation, and must rely on implementers to pick out any technical impacts from= this specification. That said, I have two broad categories of feedback. The first includes suggestions and concerns = that are something more than nits. The second are really just nits and styl= istic (i.e. take them or leave them) types of concerns. =C2=A0

=C2=A0

Suggestions/Concerns More Than Nits...=

=C2=A0

Page 6: There are two similar terms in the second pa= ragraph of section 4.2: "endpoint management system" and "en= dpoint monitoring system". Are they intended to be distinct, or interc= hangeable in this context? I could conclude either way, but if they are intended to be interchangeable, then I recommend picking a= nd using one.

=C2=A0

They were originally meant to be interchangeable, I= =E2=80=99ve changed them both to =E2=80=9Cendpoint management system=E2=80= =9D to avoid confusion.


Thanks!
=C2= =A0

=C2=A0

Page 10: I've probably missed something along th= e way -- perhaps out of a secdir lunch or other discussion -- but it really= seems like section 5.3 could be dramatically reduced by saying, follow RFC= 7589. There are a lot of non-ROLIE-specific things happening in this section, which mostly amount to good practice ove= rall (so I don't necessarily mind having the information in here), but = imagine this information being available in every draft intended to be, in = part, secured using TLS. That sounds like a nightmare for managing requirements.

=C2=A0

We=E2=80=99ve selectively chosen pieces out of RFC7= 589 to put into ROLIE, so referencing the whole document may include uninte= nded requirements. That said, there may be a way to shorten this section slightly if you are concerned about section length.


Understood. Also, my comments were not so much about length as about cont= ributing to a potential rats nest of requirements. But, shortening would be= good too. :-)
=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Page 11: First paragraph at the top of that page (pa= rt of section 5.3) says, "The server MUST support certificate-based cl= ient authentication..." Why is this not a SHOULD? Yes, we'd like t= hem to, but there are perfectly valid cases where they needn't support client authentication. Of course, if a proper TLS= server implementation does this already, then my previous comment applies = here as well.

=C2=A0

Page 11: First pargraph of section 5.4. A similar co= ncern to the previous, the first sentence reads, "Implementations MUST= support user authentication." Why not SHOULD? Again, there are valid = cases where authentication is not, strictly speaking, needed.

=C2=A0

We decided that implem= entations MUST support the authentication in both of these cases to maintai= n secure interoperability between implementations. A given ROLIE repo does not have to actually use the authentication. Panos had similar comme= nts to these two as well, so I=E2=80=99ve added a paragraph in section 2 th= at clarifies that all requirements in the ROLIE specification are conforman= ce requirements for implementations, and are not usage requirements.

=

Right, but therein is sort of the r= ub. Maybe it's a red herring, but if there's code sitting there tha= t'll never really be used, isn't that a bad thing?=C2=A0

=C2=A0
=

=C2=A0

Page 12: Section 5.5 treats GET and POST, but ignore= s the other methods that may be treated similarly by stating, in section 5.= 6, "Servers MAY accept request methods beyond those specified in this = document." Do we really want to leave those undefined? PUT? DELETE? I'm not an expert in this area, but PUT could = be treated similarly to POST. DELETE is probably something that SHOULD be i= mplemented only for user agents properly authenticated and authorized, etc.=

=C2=A0

Section 5.= 5 only applies to requests sent to the =E2=80=9C/=E2=80=9D resource to main= tain RID compatibility. GET,POST,PUT,DELETE,etc are all defined for general= usage in the Atom Publishing Protocol specification

=C2=A0

Sections 6.1 and 6.2 and maybe others I can't re= call: These sections provide an informative syntax for a given element that= is a "stricter representation" than the original RFC, but they d= on't ever really state which part of that element is stricter, which forces the reader out to that original RFC. If there is= a way to make the statement right there, please do so.

=C2=A0

<= span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">= The definitions for elements we=E2=80=99ve provided in ROLIE are full defin= itions, so a reader shouldn=E2=80=99t need to flip back to RFC4287 in order= to get the whole picture. Any element defined in ROLIE does a full override of the 4287 element, and any element= not defined in ROLIE fully inherits from 4287. Would it help if I added so= me text describing that relationship in more detail somewhere?


<= /span>
It might, but I'm a voice of one, so if others are like &quo= t;dude, what's this guy talking about?" then I wouldn't worry = about it.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Page 15: First sentence of section 6.1.3 indicates t= hat "the atom:updated element MUST be populated with the current time = at the instant the Feed representation was last updated..." Is "i= nstant" sufficient definition?

=C2=A0

Time being the beast that it is I=E2=80=99m not sur= e how to better describe the requirement. Do you have any suggestions/recom= mendations on how to define it?


LOL. Nope. If = we're not concerned, then that's fine. Does the Atom spec indicate = the timestamp format? That's probably sufficient.
=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Nits and Such...

=C2=A0

<= div>

Page 5: Second sentence of section 3.2. Strike "= ;However, " from the beginning.

=C2=A0

Changed

=C2=A0

Page 5: Last sentence of section 3.2. Proposed chang= e: "A non-normative RELAX NG Compact Schema..." or "An infor= mative RELAX NG Compact Schema..."

=C2=A0

Added

=C2=A0

<= div>

Page 5: Last sentence of only paragraph in Section 4= (proper). Proposed change: "...human-in-the-loop sharing arise...&quo= t;. It just reads funny (to me) using "become apparent" followed = by something else that "becomes apparent".

=C2=A0

<= div>

Agreed, changed the sentence to avoid the = repetition.

=C2=A0

=

Page 19: First sentence of first bullet point in sec= tion 6.2.5. Proposed change: "...have an atom:link element...".

=C2=A0

=

Changed

=C2=A0

Page 26: Last sentence in first paragraph of section= 9. Proposed change: "...All that follows is guidance.=C2=A0 More spec= ific instruction is out of scope for this document."

=C2=A0

Changed

=C2=A0

Page 26: The term CSIRT is used in the last paragrap= h on this page. Not sure whether we would prefer to use a more generalized = example, as CSIRTs may not be the only type of sharing consortium.

=C2=A0

Agreed, c= hanged to =E2=80=9Cconsortium=E2=80=9D.

=C2=A0

Kind regards,

=C2=A0

Adam

=C2=A0

On Tue, Mar 28, 2017 at 6:27 PM Nancy Cam-Winget (nc= amwing) <ncamwin= g@cisco.com> wrote:

Colleagues,<= u>

=C2=A0

Given the significa= nt changes made to the last draft, we are doing another 30day WGLC for

https://too= ls.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mile-rolie-06

=C2=A0

Please provide comm= ents before May 1st and provide your support and/ or raise any i= ssue you feel are yet to be addressed.

=C2=A0

Regards, Nancy

_______________________________________________=
mile mailing list
mile@ietf.org
ht= tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mile


_______________________________________________
mile mailing list
mile@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mile




--
=

John= P. Field |=C2=A0Security PM |=C2=A0Pivotal= =C2=A0

Direct: (908) 962-3394 | jfield@pivo= tal.io=C2=A0=C2=A0

--001a113e47e22e9bb0054db00263-- From nobody Fri Apr 21 12:26:03 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mile@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mile@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7428C127286 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 2017 12:26:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.697 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.697 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AC_DIV_BONANZA=0.001, BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MVS1IOqjV9eg for ; Fri, 21 Apr 2017 12:25:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-io0-x231.google.com (mail-io0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c06::231]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 32FD01287A0 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 2017 12:25:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-io0-x231.google.com with SMTP id k87so132988450ioi.0 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 2017 12:25:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=wTis42XUY1hdJdBxdhMhF0LUK6zb5HkzOyoLPguhVS4=; b=KCMTdVSYMC5DvJ0lbUJaqnctltpIqbfS9JDtjWJ29Q8+hF3Bop1a11QM7+mLHuqzdu xHXE6YFEVNXcSbi8L4oV2/9GCkJYzsgRxGwVCrVBP/pxXDPVqCPSnDorD1fiq1N0tWxr klAAkT+3vYmp5NuUGz1Mgy9CKEZwjeqOsQWxe2smFQMLc2lp9BqZMAFuBpO7WaoRZDms 8FOiWkKicqmuZ7xNJCzzixsQWCR5WVw97ilXAkgiCYKJ9UI7s7Aigsahd7ssk8nX+nlI FPPGEnRf1X1MWQFfO6A/ds8jh0i0pX2KASZSNYs0esVUL03hcbMjAWbnEQkmIk+EKFSU BISA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=wTis42XUY1hdJdBxdhMhF0LUK6zb5HkzOyoLPguhVS4=; b=ZULQl4xrfWmM7iu5BISdsORVZMLCBCW8zu/XdilucAHNwf4y9lB+mGSSCyi/gRB2ov xYiM3U0ocyoOvl3CxCuZop7f2wrfebq1Jj2cIeqWd4rGq6GPdbq/no+cUJXNq5v9KlMk T0b7DusBfOvpfCr/PMwF3v8nsip/fEwAFM7HgZwcrClXaxtkSvnjA3pU1uc9j6kUOhdD tRUWVGbzdNCXSv7Rx0DRSt07rCTrIFcqEfRFS1Ild6Tq11w1bALSDr9DSyLw7ophZLfB RQNDmUkF1CNPG9MQ2wEN7Wv/SjuURQ8smiFWtaipLNzGa9Zh3zkp0POZLTdA/zGejGF+ 99HA== X-Gm-Message-State: AN3rC/5xUGIXupIV6biDgXnZ9rpZPN9quNKoxsvWR6Hf7ywvBWpPcsrZ u6h+4MHVNlHnua2jvNycRCG+3Ba35A== X-Received: by 10.36.69.195 with SMTP id c64mr355768itd.12.1492802730210; Fri, 21 Apr 2017 12:25:30 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Adam Montville Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2017 19:25:18 +0000 Message-ID: To: John Field Cc: "Banghart, Stephen A. (Fed)" , "mile@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113a81c8743955054db2381f Archived-At: Subject: Re: [mile] Working group last call for ROLIE X-BeenThere: mile@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Managed Incident Lightweight Exchange, IODEF extensions and RID exchanges" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2017 19:26:01 -0000 --001a113a81c8743955054db2381f Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks for the additional perspective. It's all good, and I like the idea of upping the game. Just felt, for some reason, compelled to ask about it. On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 11:47 AM John Field wrote: > Hi All, > > Thanks Adam for the review comments. > > With regard to your specific comments on page 11 of the draft, i.e. MUST > versus SHOULD, this is a very good point. I too struggled with this > question in the earlier drafts. I can see the motivation to not exclude > legitimate use cases or specific deployments that for whatever reason mig= ht > not require mutually authenticated TLS. But, at the end of the day, I > agree with Stephen's response that as ROLIE is a security service endpoin= t, > we should keep this as a MUST in terms of conformance. Here's my rationa= le: > > In general, we want to raise the bar -- in terms of current best practice= , > and use "TLS everywhere." This ensures privacy (and, depending upon > specific cipher suite, perfect forward secrecy). Going the next step, and > requiring mutually authenticated TLS, helps by defining at least 1 > specific, and consistent client authentication mechanism, and so should > promote better interoperability. > > As a practical matter, there are many tools and libraries available to > implementers, and so the associated certificate issuance is just not as b= ig > a burden as it might first seem. > > Also, ensuring data integrity will be an important security characteristi= c > for any ROLIE implementation. Although specific audit requirements are o= ut > of scope, requiring mutually authenticated TLS will provide a > standards-based way for a server to associate an identity with a client > endpoint and provide accountability/audit of client actions. This could b= e > useful as a remember-me, even if the identity provisioning process does n= ot > involve strong vetting. > > Of course, implementations may choose to support additional authenticatio= n > mechanisms as needed. There is a brief discussion of this in the 3rd > paragraph of section 9, security considerations, where guidance is given = to > align the client authentication requirement to the threat model. > > Regards, > John > > > On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 3:16 PM, Adam Montville < > adam.w.montville@gmail.com> wrote: > >> More inline :-) >> >> On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 10:57 AM Banghart, Stephen A. (Fed) < >> stephen.banghart@nist.gov> wrote: >> >>> Hey Adam, >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks for the review, responses inline. >>> >>> >>> >>> -Stephen >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* mile [mailto:mile-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Adam >>> Montville >>> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 19, 2017 2:14 PM >>> >>> >>> *To:* Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwing) ; mile@ietf.org >>> *Subject:* Re: [mile] Working group last call for ROLIE >>> >>> >>> >>> Hi all. >>> >>> >>> >>> I've read through the entire draft and found it to be a decent draft. >>> Keep in mind that I've not attempted an implementation, and must rely o= n >>> implementers to pick out any technical impacts from this specification. >>> That said, I have two broad categories of feedback. The first includes >>> suggestions and concerns that are something more than nits. The second = are >>> really just nits and stylistic (i.e. take them or leave them) types of >>> concerns. >>> >>> >>> >>> Suggestions/Concerns More Than Nits... >>> >>> >>> >>> Page 6: There are two similar terms in the second paragraph of section >>> 4.2: "endpoint management system" and "endpoint monitoring system". Are >>> they intended to be distinct, or interchangeable in this context? I cou= ld >>> conclude either way, but if they are intended to be interchangeable, th= en I >>> recommend picking and using one. >>> >>> >>> >>> They were originally meant to be interchangeable, I=E2=80=99ve changed = them both >>> to =E2=80=9Cendpoint management system=E2=80=9D to avoid confusion. >>> >> >> Thanks! >> >> >>> >>> >>> Page 10: I've probably missed something along the way -- perhaps out of >>> a secdir lunch or other discussion -- but it really seems like section = 5.3 >>> could be dramatically reduced by saying, follow RFC7589. There are a lo= t of >>> non-ROLIE-specific things happening in this section, which mostly amoun= t to >>> good practice overall (so I don't necessarily mind having the informati= on >>> in here), but imagine this information being available in every draft >>> intended to be, in part, secured using TLS. That sounds like a nightmar= e >>> for managing requirements. >>> >>> >>> >>> We=E2=80=99ve selectively chosen pieces out of RFC7589 to put into ROLI= E, so >>> referencing the whole document may include unintended requirements. Tha= t >>> said, there may be a way to shorten this section slightly if you are >>> concerned about section length. >>> >> >> Understood. Also, my comments were not so much about length as about >> contributing to a potential rats nest of requirements. But, shortening >> would be good too. :-) >> >> >>> >>> >>> Page 11: First paragraph at the top of that page (part of section 5.3) >>> says, "The server MUST support certificate-based client authentication.= .." >>> Why is this not a SHOULD? Yes, we'd like them to, but there are perfect= ly >>> valid cases where they needn't support client authentication. Of course= , if >>> a proper TLS server implementation does this already, then my previous >>> comment applies here as well. >>> >>> >>> >>> Page 11: First pargraph of section 5.4. A similar concern to the >>> previous, the first sentence reads, "Implementations MUST support user >>> authentication." Why not SHOULD? Again, there are valid cases where >>> authentication is not, strictly speaking, needed. >>> >>> >>> >>> We decided that implementations MUST support the authentication in both >>> of these cases to maintain secure interoperability between implementati= ons. >>> A given ROLIE repo does *not* have to actually use the authentication. >>> Panos had similar comments to these two as well, so I=E2=80=99ve added = a paragraph >>> in section 2 that clarifies that all requirements in the ROLIE >>> specification are conformance requirements for implementations, and are= not >>> usage requirements. >>> >> >> Right, but therein is sort of the rub. Maybe it's a red herring, but if >> there's code sitting there that'll never really be used, isn't that a ba= d >> thing? >> >> >> >>> >>> >>> Page 12: Section 5.5 treats GET and POST, but ignores the other methods >>> that may be treated similarly by stating, in section 5.6, "Servers MAY >>> accept request methods beyond those specified in this document." Do we >>> really want to leave those undefined? PUT? DELETE? I'm not an expert in >>> this area, but PUT could be treated similarly to POST. DELETE is probab= ly >>> something that SHOULD be implemented only for user agents properly >>> authenticated and authorized, etc. >>> >>> >>> >>> Section 5.5 only applies to requests sent to the =E2=80=9C/=E2=80=9D re= source to >>> maintain RID compatibility. GET,POST,PUT,DELETE,etc are all defined for >>> general usage in the Atom Publishing Protocol specification >>> >>> >>> >>> Sections 6.1 and 6.2 and maybe others I can't recall: These sections >>> provide an informative syntax for a given element that is a "stricter >>> representation" than the original RFC, but they don't ever really state >>> which part of that element is stricter, which forces the reader out to = that >>> original RFC. If there is a way to make the statement right there, plea= se >>> do so. >>> >>> >>> >>> The definitions for elements we=E2=80=99ve provided in ROLIE are full >>> definitions, so a reader shouldn=E2=80=99t need to flip back to RFC4287= in order to >>> get the whole picture. Any element defined in ROLIE does a full overrid= e of >>> the 4287 element, and any element not defined in ROLIE fully inherits f= rom >>> 4287. Would it help if I added some text describing that relationship i= n >>> more detail somewhere? >>> >> >> It might, but I'm a voice of one, so if others are like "dude, what's >> this guy talking about?" then I wouldn't worry about it. >> >> >> >>> >>> >>> Page 15: First sentence of section 6.1.3 indicates that "the >>> atom:updated element MUST be populated with the current time at the ins= tant >>> the Feed representation was last updated..." Is "instant" sufficient >>> definition? >>> >>> >>> >>> Time being the beast that it is I=E2=80=99m not sure how to better desc= ribe the >>> requirement. Do you have any suggestions/recommendations on how to defi= ne >>> it? >>> >> >> LOL. Nope. If we're not concerned, then that's fine. Does the Atom spec >> indicate the timestamp format? That's probably sufficient. >> >> >>> >>> >>> Nits and Such... >>> >>> >>> >>> Page 5: Second sentence of section 3.2. Strike "However, " from the >>> beginning. >>> >>> >>> >>> Changed >>> >>> >>> >>> Page 5: Last sentence of section 3.2. Proposed change: "A non-normative >>> RELAX NG Compact Schema..." or "An informative RELAX NG Compact Schema.= .." >>> >>> >>> >>> Added >>> >>> >>> >>> Page 5: Last sentence of only paragraph in Section 4 (proper). Proposed >>> change: "...human-in-the-loop sharing arise...". It just reads funny (t= o >>> me) using "become apparent" followed by something else that "becomes >>> apparent". >>> >>> >>> >>> Agreed, changed the sentence to avoid the repetition. >>> >>> >>> >>> Page 19: First sentence of first bullet point in section 6.2.5. Propose= d >>> change: "...have an atom:link element...". >>> >>> >>> >>> Changed >>> >>> >>> >>> Page 26: Last sentence in first paragraph of section 9. Proposed change= : >>> "...All that follows is guidance. More specific instruction is out of >>> scope for this document." >>> >>> >>> >>> Changed >>> >>> >>> >>> Page 26: The term CSIRT is used in the last paragraph on this page. Not >>> sure whether we would prefer to use a more generalized example, as CSIR= Ts >>> may not be the only type of sharing consortium. >>> >>> >>> >>> Agreed, changed to =E2=80=9Cconsortium=E2=80=9D. >>> >>> >>> >>> Kind regards, >>> >>> >>> >>> Adam >>> >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Mar 28, 2017 at 6:27 PM Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwing) < >>> ncamwing@cisco.com> wrote: >>> >>> Colleagues, >>> >>> >>> >>> Given the significant changes made to the last draft, we are doing >>> another 30day WGLC for >>> >>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mile-rolie-06 >>> >>> >>> >>> Please provide comments before May 1st and provide your support and/ or >>> raise any issue you feel are yet to be addressed. >>> >>> >>> >>> Regards, Nancy >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> mile mailing list >>> mile@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mile >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> mile mailing list >> mile@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mile >> >> > > > -- > > John P. Field | Security PM | Pivotal > > Direct: (908) 962-3394 | jfield@ pivotal.io > --001a113a81c8743955054db2381f Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks for the additional perspective. It's all good, = and I like the idea of upping the game. Just felt, for some reason, compell= ed to ask about it.

On= Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 11:47 AM John Field <jfield@pivotal.io> wrote:
Hi All,=C2=A0

Thanks Adam for the= review comments. =C2=A0

With regard to your speci= fic comments on page 11 of the draft, i.e. MUST versus SHOULD, this is a ve= ry good point.=C2=A0 I too struggled with this question in the earlier draf= ts.=C2=A0=C2=A0I can see the motivation to not exclude legitimate use cases= or specific deployments that for whatever reason might not require mutuall= y authenticated TLS.=C2=A0 But, at the end of the day, I agree with Stephen= 's response that as ROLIE is a security service endpoint, we should kee= p this as a MUST in terms of conformance.=C2=A0 Here's my rationale:

In general, we want to raise the bar -- in terms of = current best practice, and use "TLS everywhere." =C2=A0This ensur= es privacy (and, depending upon specific cipher suite, perfect forward secr= ecy). Going the next step, and requiring mutually authenticated TLS, helps = by defining at least 1 specific, and consistent client authentication mecha= nism, and so should promote better interoperability. =C2=A0

<= /div>
As a practical matter, there are many tools and libraries availab= le to implementers, and so the associated certificate issuance is just not = as big a burden as it might first seem.=C2=A0

Also= , ensuring data integrity will be an important security characteristic for = any ROLIE implementation.=C2=A0 Although specific audit requirements are ou= t of scope, requiring mutually authenticated TLS will provide a standards-b= ased way for a server to associate an identity with a client endpoint and p= rovide accountability/audit of client actions. This could be useful as a re= member-me, even if the identity provisioning process does not involve stron= g vetting.=C2=A0

Of course, implementations may ch= oose to support additional authentication mechanisms as needed.=C2=A0 There= is a brief discussion of this in the 3rd paragraph of section 9, security = considerations,=C2=A0where guidance is given to align the client authentica= tion requirement to the threat model. =C2=A0

Regar= ds,
John
=C2=A0=C2=A0

On Thu= , Apr 20, 2017 at 3:16 PM, Adam Montville <adam.w.montville@gmail= .com> wrote:
More inline :-)

On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 10:57 AM Banghart, Stephen A. (Fed) <stephen.banghart@nist.= gov> wrote:

Hey Adam,

=C2=A0

Thanks for the review, responses inline.<= /u>

=C2=A0

-Stephen

=C2=A0

From: mile [mailto:mile-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Adam Montville
Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2017 2:14 PM

=


To: Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwing) <ncamwing@cisco.com>; mile@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [mile] Working group last call for ROLIE<= /span>

=C2=A0

Hi all.

=C2=A0

I've read through the entire draft and found it = to be a decent draft. Keep in mind that I've not attempted an implement= ation, and must rely on implementers to pick out any technical impacts from= this specification. That said, I have two broad categories of feedback. The first includes suggestions and concerns = that are something more than nits. The second are really just nits and styl= istic (i.e. take them or leave them) types of concerns. =C2=A0

=C2=A0

Suggestions/Concerns More Than Nits...=

=C2=A0

Page 6: There are two similar terms in the second pa= ragraph of section 4.2: "endpoint management system" and "en= dpoint monitoring system". Are they intended to be distinct, or interc= hangeable in this context? I could conclude either way, but if they are intended to be interchangeable, then I recommend picking a= nd using one.

=C2=A0

They were originally meant to be interchangeable, I= =E2=80=99ve changed them both to =E2=80=9Cendpoint management system=E2=80= =9D to avoid confusion.


Thanks!
=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Page 10: I've probably missed something along th= e way -- perhaps out of a secdir lunch or other discussion -- but it really= seems like section 5.3 could be dramatically reduced by saying, follow RFC= 7589. There are a lot of non-ROLIE-specific things happening in this section, which mostly amount to good practice ove= rall (so I don't necessarily mind having the information in here), but = imagine this information being available in every draft intended to be, in = part, secured using TLS. That sounds like a nightmare for managing requirements.

=C2=A0

We=E2=80=99ve selectively chosen pieces out of RFC7= 589 to put into ROLIE, so referencing the whole document may include uninte= nded requirements. That said, there may be a way to shorten this section slightly if you are concerned about section length.


Understood. Also, my comments were not so much about length as about cont= ributing to a potential rats nest of requirements. But, shortening would be= good too. :-)
=C2=A0
<= div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<= div>

=C2=A0

Page 11: First paragraph at the top of that page (pa= rt of section 5.3) says, "The server MUST support certificate-based cl= ient authentication..." Why is this not a SHOULD? Yes, we'd like t= hem to, but there are perfectly valid cases where they needn't support client authentication. Of course, if a proper TLS= server implementation does this already, then my previous comment applies = here as well.

=C2=A0

Page 11: First pargraph of section 5.4. A similar co= ncern to the previous, the first sentence reads, "Implementations MUST= support user authentication." Why not SHOULD? Again, there are valid = cases where authentication is not, strictly speaking, needed.

=C2=A0

<= span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">= We decided that implementations MUST support the authentication in both of = these cases to maintain secure interoperability between implementations. A = given ROLIE repo does not have to actually use the authentication. Panos had similar comme= nts to these two as well, so I=E2=80=99ve added a paragraph in section 2 th= at clarifies that all requirements in the ROLIE specification are conforman= ce requirements for implementations, and are not usage requirements.

=

Right, but therein is sort of the r= ub. Maybe it's a red herring, but if there's code sitting there tha= t'll never really be used, isn't that a bad thing?=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Page 12: Section 5.5 treats GET and POST, but ignore= s the other methods that may be treated similarly by stating, in section 5.= 6, "Servers MAY accept request methods beyond those specified in this = document." Do we really want to leave those undefined? PUT? DELETE? I'm not an expert in this area, but PUT could = be treated similarly to POST. DELETE is probably something that SHOULD be i= mplemented only for user agents properly authenticated and authorized, etc.=

=C2=A0

Section 5.5 only applies to requests sent to the =E2=80=9C/=E2= =80=9D resource to maintain RID compatibility. GET,POST,PUT,DELETE,etc are = all defined for general usage in the Atom Publishing Protocol specification

=C2=A0

Sections 6.1 and 6.2 and maybe others I can't re= call: These sections provide an informative syntax for a given element that= is a "stricter representation" than the original RFC, but they d= on't ever really state which part of that element is stricter, which forces the reader out to that original RFC. If there is= a way to make the statement right there, please do so.

=C2=A0

The definitions for elements we=E2=80=99ve provided i= n ROLIE are full definitions, so a reader shouldn=E2=80=99t need to flip ba= ck to RFC4287 in order to get the whole picture. Any element defined in ROLIE does a full override of the 4287 element, and any element= not defined in ROLIE fully inherits from 4287. Would it help if I added so= me text describing that relationship in more detail somewhere?


<= /span>
It might, but I'm a voice of one, so if others are like &quo= t;dude, what's this guy talking about?" then I wouldn't worry = about it.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Page 15: First sentence of section 6.1.3 indicates t= hat "the atom:updated element MUST be populated with the current time = at the instant the Feed representation was last updated..." Is "i= nstant" sufficient definition?

=C2=A0

Time being the beast that it is I=E2=80=99m not sur= e how to better describe the requirement. Do you have any suggestions/recom= mendations on how to define it?


LOL. Nope. If = we're not concerned, then that's fine. Does the Atom spec indicate = the timestamp format? That's probably sufficient.
=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Nits and Such...

=C2=A0

Page 5: Second sentence of section 3.2. Strike "= ;However, " from the beginning.

=C2=A0

=

Changed

=C2=A0

Page 5: Last sentence of section 3.2. Proposed chang= e: "A non-normative RELAX NG Compact Schema..." or "An infor= mative RELAX NG Compact Schema..."

=

=C2=A0

Added

=C2=A0

Page 5: Last sentence of only paragraph in Section 4= (proper). Proposed change: "...human-in-the-loop sharing arise...&quo= t;. It just reads funny (to me) using "become apparent" followed = by something else that "becomes apparent".

=C2=A0

Agreed, changed the = sentence to avoid the repetition.

=C2=A0

Page 19: First sentence of first bullet point in sec= tion 6.2.5. Proposed change: "...have an atom:link element...".

=C2=A0

Changed

=C2=A0

Page 26: Last sentence in first paragraph of section= 9. Proposed change: "...All that follows is guidance.=C2=A0 More spec= ific instruction is out of scope for this document."

=C2=A0

Changed

=C2=A0

Page 26: The term CSIRT is used in the last paragrap= h on this page. Not sure whether we would prefer to use a more generalized = example, as CSIRTs may not be the only type of sharing consortium.

=C2=A0

Agreed, changed to =E2=80=9Cconsortium=E2=80=9D.=

=C2=A0

Kind regards,

=C2=A0

Adam

=C2=A0

On Tue, Mar 28, 2017 at 6:27 PM Nancy Cam-Winget (nc= amwing) <ncamwin= g@cisco.com> wrote:

Colleagues,<= u>

=C2=A0

Given the significa= nt changes made to the last draft, we are doing another 30day WGLC for

https://too= ls.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mile-rolie-06

=C2=A0

Please provide comm= ents before May 1st and provide your support and/ or raise any i= ssue you feel are yet to be addressed.

=C2=A0

Regards, Nancy

_______________________________________________
mile mailing list
mile@ietf.org
ht= tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mile


_______________________________________________
mile mailing list
mile@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mile




--

John P. Field |=C2=A0Security PM |=C2=A0Pivotal=C2=A0

Direct: (908) 96= 2-3394 | jfie= ld@pivotal.io=C2=A0= =C2=A0

--001a113a81c8743955054db2381f-- From nobody Fri Apr 21 13:19:39 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mile@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mile@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8AFB129447 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 2017 13:19:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.321 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.321 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_05=-0.5, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=stpeter.im header.b=ibPPqz0D; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=e1+Ir1N9 Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rmyXMGNz0shc for ; Fri, 21 Apr 2017 13:19:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from out1-smtp.messagingengine.com (out1-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.25]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0FAFD127BA3 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 2017 13:19:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from compute2.internal (compute2.nyi.internal [10.202.2.42]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70BC821F91; Fri, 21 Apr 2017 16:19:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from frontend2 ([10.202.2.161]) by compute2.internal (MEProxy); Fri, 21 Apr 2017 16:19:35 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=stpeter.im; h=cc :content-transfer-encoding:content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-me-sender :x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc:x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=xqST8xE2HI4aFQa8hj +a+LJe9gP85589CZz7YTsm4BI=; b=ibPPqz0D/0tKHCq17CKYmLwMV/hKl2bHgr tsZPs8aTEiOlmL9rsl49pSP+TUVrL6mupkY2bcncGbjlJzAQkf//oL9dZ12JwKl9 fiiSsxZWGv5vlZU1dJbKn2k8vffIko4qrq3LUcIflzPa2Q9Oiit2MMCpgUi7hoRg bTNVS7IIEhtW4D8WVWWtj4OVuqpaMdRtLdew1f58A3F7Co5ZwMqhzQcQ+cIl6mor qdYsHdYuTsQlUDlW8XmLdLnEW4Maik+A3wEjX0lsEajS5D6OGWLiXFUobzo292/9 3Up+xVG7kcwkYJ8cV1p7V/ZMyRdywMKheSD3Vmvg25oMl2W3Idpg== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc:x-sasl-enc; s= fm1; bh=xqST8xE2HI4aFQa8hj+a+LJe9gP85589CZz7YTsm4BI=; b=e1+Ir1N9 XtAqWy9chme7QLhwuMjuzPAaoOyZHI28yCwqb/ELHV6e9H+6ENJs5RkJLwYOWgTS F9q9tVJ2n4e9um5jalZar2imjoc82PZKQoeDTc/0HcrIfiFYD8V/UAYeW/8DCzSY /cuZEbyUixxGUjSighir88JTQjKN4z3llsNZRRiojhzoq3TrLPLF/yhbvLwkjonU CD5L21MkMzp3eORCbYtNPiW8Tfgr2AeIXnBmc5E130HdUmmM2hpkvJTG7QkKCS8L MDEUo7adfn/3ROzSBunabEx2QDgy5Sg+Lc/DLNrhJamsbL6frNRrEzSZFTLCh/Qr BWV8s9jJdV1JHQ== X-ME-Sender: X-Sasl-enc: NYrIIwsU2bZ8OYS+vUdQkLmViM19mjzT/Jb5fN41V8kQ 1492805975 Received: from aither.local (unknown [76.25.4.24]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id EB92A241ED; Fri, 21 Apr 2017 16:19:34 -0400 (EDT) To: Dave Cridland , Takeshi Takahashi References: <000901d2a9d1$eaff3ae0$c0fdb0a0$@nict.go.jp> Cc: mile@ietf.org From: Peter Saint-Andre Message-ID: Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2017 14:19:34 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.12; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [mile] Working group last call for XMPP-grid X-BeenThere: mile@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Managed Incident Lightweight Exchange, IODEF extensions and RID exchanges" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2017 20:19:38 -0000 On 4/20/17 10:12 AM, Dave Cridland wrote: > Folks, > > TL/DR: This shouldn't be published, possibly ever, certainly not in > its current state. Sadly, I must concur with Dave's assessment. I'd be happy to review a future version that is more fully and correctly specified. Peter From nobody Mon Apr 24 12:44:15 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mile@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mile@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5D78131661 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 2017 12:44:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=mitre.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MhW3KRXu45WX for ; Mon, 24 Apr 2017 12:44:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpvmsrv1.mitre.org (smtpvmsrv1.mitre.org [192.52.194.136]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D8EA1314ED for ; Mon, 24 Apr 2017 12:44:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpvmsrv1.mitre.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 1F5B26FC005 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 2017 15:44:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from imshyb01.MITRE.ORG (imshyb01.mitre.org [129.83.29.2]) by smtpvmsrv1.mitre.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 107AC6DC00A for ; Mon, 24 Apr 2017 15:44:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from imshyb01.MITRE.ORG (129.83.29.2) by imshyb01.MITRE.ORG (129.83.29.2) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1263.5; Mon, 24 Apr 2017 15:44:09 -0400 Received: from gcc01-dm2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (10.140.19.249) by imshyb01.MITRE.ORG (129.83.29.2) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1263.5 via Frontend Transport; Mon, 24 Apr 2017 15:44:09 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mitre.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector1-mitre-org; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version; bh=2KcPEyZEnn5jJN3UJpnoLVg6iS820QkzG69fIpg8zBM=; b=ed9gMFtevj6o3qd5gCUfucL7gwNPcMuiWioiqxpDRiQrDFs1WKJWKnIhPuuJQclNbzSFmlSSr8y2PtvkDXw6JT7TsuRa5pCigJLko7+upJqt0N6eb1hgHakKhIumTAi09ji1ydxkCFDcHz1d2Y+nes3UrkjEpbaTxNqSXtZuJX4= Received: from CY1PR09MB0889.namprd09.prod.outlook.com (10.163.43.27) by CY1PR09MB0891.namprd09.prod.outlook.com (10.163.43.29) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1047.13; Mon, 24 Apr 2017 19:44:08 +0000 Received: from CY1PR09MB0889.namprd09.prod.outlook.com ([10.163.43.27]) by CY1PR09MB0889.namprd09.prod.outlook.com ([10.163.43.27]) with mapi id 15.01.1047.019; Mon, 24 Apr 2017 19:44:08 +0000 From: "Schmidt, Charles M." To: "mile@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Working group last call for ROLIE Thread-Index: AQHSqBrX3wNPiZjeRUuG2OC1scqiSqHVDH4w Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2017 19:44:07 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: ietf.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;ietf.org; dmarc=none action=none header.from=mitre.org; x-originating-ip: [192.160.51.89] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; CY1PR09MB0891; 7:rPIiisbb4RdfNVbZ7nUs8ql2z8bTooDa44x/yuLViBKl61/3MjTJA0i2WSPR72Db2A4soVsLp6bGbbCquDkPXDxNAYg9TVXFGS+Tznf5/crETcKVyuyosN2e0DebSFh56Rj4NJ3x8TDoIQMd+wqNTlCzzjR3w20YFhXE0T5pmlnlVau0ZcmYPkfrcJ9QycaX2P/pxceVEjllpRMO/sgSX8ILoYIIZXYQdH4dfjVNu3lWS+7nzCyMAoX8hlM4LO4QLXXJtVpYZRjNSqoTWr1MDBfgcab84/9YVZ+DWD/lHDSl1s+l8Bh0q8l+phsrGUijiGzD4nvLZ/Xy5yCAqM3Guw== x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 3bb58143-5081-434a-cf7b-08d48b4a45c4 x-ms-office365-filtering-ht: Tenant 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c620dc48-1d50-4952-8b39-df4d54d74d82 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: CY1PR09MB0891 X-OriginatorOrg: mitre.org Archived-At: Subject: Re: [mile] Working group last call for ROLIE X-BeenThere: mile@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Managed Incident Lightweight Exchange, IODEF extensions and RID exchanges" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2017 19:44:14 -0000 SGVsbG8sDQoNCkkgaGF2ZSBvbmx5IGdvdHRlbiBhcyBmYXIgYXMgNS4xLjIgKGluY2x1c2l2ZSks IGJ1dCBpbiB0aGUgaW50ZXJlc3Qgb2YgZ2V0dGluZyB0aGlzIGluZm9ybWF0aW9uIHRvIHlvdSBz b29uZXIgcmF0aGVyIHRoYW4gbGF0ZXIsIG15IGNvbW1lbnRzIHNvIGZhciBhcmUgYmVsb3c6DQoN ClNlY3Rpb24gMToNCi0gIkFzIHRoZSBzZXQgb2YgcmVzb3VyY2UgQ29sbGVjdGlvbnMgYXJlIGZv cndhcmQgZmFjaW5nLCB0aGUgY29uc3VtZXIgbWF5IHNlYXJjaCBhbGwgYXZhaWxhYmxlIGNvbnRl bnQgZm9yIHdoaWNoIHRoZXkgYXJlIGF1dGhvcml6ZWQgdG8gdmlldywgYW5kIHJlcXVlc3QgdGhl 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DQo+IA0KPiANCj4gDQo+IFJlZ2FyZHMsIE5hbmN5DQoNCg== From nobody Mon Apr 24 14:02:15 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mile@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mile@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B4CA129456 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 2017 14:02:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nistgov.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tWz7SkIIIbPJ for ; Mon, 24 Apr 2017 14:02:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gcc01-CY1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com 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([10.172.34.141]) by DM5PR09MB1307.namprd09.prod.outlook.com ([10.172.34.141]) with mapi id 15.01.1047.019; Mon, 24 Apr 2017 21:02:09 +0000 From: "Banghart, Stephen A. (Fed)" To: "Schmidt, Charles M." CC: "mile@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Working group last call for ROLIE Thread-Index: AQHSqBrX3wNPiZjeRUuG2OC1scqiSqHVDH4wgAAQRaA= Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2017 21:02:09 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: mitre.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;mitre.org; dmarc=none action=none header.from=nist.gov; x-originating-ip: [129.6.227.79] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; DM5PR09MB1305; 7:ADJEdz9l0UMHVbF93RqWzvlXAhCmM9GFaq4wo17otwz8ZmR+qgAbfLwTYGFPk9S5fuQdKhd2lpEa5KgbUj+bffRiAQ3qpgIOEkvD5gbl4Wy/6l3HjxFeTGm+QlZfXF3B8inhoarTfbAxDSUkZ998YhSUiBMWGN49N9CT8+DuRLe73tdoEc9rbdz7CWwWAW8cnh8D2arJGXxYdCjX0nlx9Lbdj2bYF82u4G1x9jrOIqhAU6srssJSetctphvk7hVfNojSu+yZfNlw67oxQUTYH7RGFJOMcxMxyGdmYGPqUHz+pDqLC91ffJVJDUsJPpE6JtEzNSqBHOFLtFc5ERKySA== x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: abe0f1da-84ee-43e4-25ac-08d48b552c68 x-ms-office365-filtering-ht: Tenant x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(22001)(2017030254075)(48565401081)(201703131423075)(201703031133081); SRVR:DM5PR09MB1305; x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:(192374486261705); x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(6040450)(601004)(2401047)(8121501046)(5005006)(3002001)(10201501046)(93006095)(93001095)(6055026)(6041248)(20161123564025)(20161123560025)(20161123555025)(20161123562025)(201703131423075)(201702281528075)(201703061421075)(6072148); SRVR:DM5PR09MB1305; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:DM5PR09MB1305; x-forefront-prvs: 0287BBA78D x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(6009001)(39840400002)(39410400002)(39400400002)(39850400002)(13464003)(51914003)(377454003)(6916009)(2950100002)(4326008)(38730400002)(110136004)(305945005)(6506006)(33656002)(77096006)(54356999)(76176999)(74316002)(50986999)(25786009)(53546009)(7736002)(122556002)(229853002)(7696004)(6246003)(102836003)(5660300001)(3846002)(6116002)(2906002)(8936002)(6306002)(3660700001)(3280700002)(9686003)(99286003)(53936002)(66066001)(2900100001)(55016002)(6436002)(8676002)(86362001)(189998001)(81166006); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:DM5PR09MB1305; H:DM5PR09MB1307.namprd09.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; MLV:sfv; LANG:en; spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: nist.gov X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 24 Apr 2017 21:02:09.6823 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 2ab5d82f-d8fa-4797-a93e-054655c61dec X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DM5PR09MB1305 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [mile] Working group last call for ROLIE X-BeenThere: mile@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Managed Incident Lightweight Exchange, IODEF extensions and RID exchanges" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2017 21:02:14 -0000 Charles, Thanks for the comments and review, I've put my responses in-line. Several of your comments speak to some focus issues in the front matter (se= ctions 1 and 4). In lieu of attempting to address each of these issues indi= vidually, I believe the document would benefit most from these sections bei= ng tightened and condensed to focus on the most important aspects of ROLIE.= These edits would only address the front matter and have no normative impa= ct on the specification, so I'll make those edits on the Github to be inclu= ded with the rest of the incorporated feedback. I'll inform you and the list on the status of those changes as they occur. -Stephen Banghart > -----Original Message----- > From: mile [mailto:mile-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Schmidt, Charles M= . > Sent: Monday, April 24, 2017 3:44 PM > To: mile@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [mile] Working group last call for ROLIE >=20 > Hello, >=20 > I have only gotten as far as 5.1.2 (inclusive), but in the interest of ge= tting this > information to you sooner rather than later, my comments so far are below= : >=20 > Section 1: > - "As the set of resource Collections are forward facing, the consumer ma= y > search all available content for which they are authorized to view, and > request the information resources which are desired." - I wasn't sure wha= t > "forward facing" means in this case. Also, I found the wording a bit awkw= ard. > I suggest rewriting the second clause as, "the consumer may search all > available content they are authorized to view, and request the desired > information resources." Forward-facing was intended to note that the collections are easily visible= to the user, I've changed the wording of the first clause to reflect that = and accepted your change on the second clause. > - Paragraph 1, second to last sentence: In the preceding sentences, you t= alk > about a customer contacting repository and requesting data. This sounds l= ike > a point-to-point solution. This makes the penultimate sentence of the > paragraph, which describes point-to-point messaging as the "old way" of > doing things over which ROLIE provides an improvement, very odd sounding. > I understand how ROLIE does, in fact, go beyond point-to-point relationsh= ips, > but given that, thus far, only the point-to-point aspects of ROLIE have b= een > discussed, the contrast seems off. > - Paragraph 1, second to last sentence: you point out that the "old way" = of > doing things involves an interaction "following a triggering event". I wo= uld > argue that all automated systems follow "a triggering event" of some kind= , so > I think you need some more context here if you are going to contrast ROLI= E > with "triggering event"-driven systems. > - Paragraph 1, last sentence: You describe some disadvantages of point-to= - > point systems here. I don't think I agree with any of your assertions her= e. > Specifically, HTTP is used in point-to-point solutions and I would argue = that it > is not inherently closed, duplicative, or hindering of automated security= . >=20 See top of message. > Section 2: > - Definition of Information Type: You state that this is a class of infor= mation > "that can be automated". So does this mean that ROLIE will not support > dissemination of security information unless that information can support > automation? I think a fair amount of cyber threat intelligence (for examp= le) > remains informative in nature, but there is still a value to its dissemin= ation. Agreed, we've changed the definition to "A class of security automation inf= ormation having an associated data model. Often this information is the sub= ject of a security process that can be automated." in order to be more incl= usive of human information whilst making it clear that this is automation f= ocused. > Section 4: > - General comment: I think this section overlooks some of the real benefi= ts > of ROLIE while simultaneously making some questionable claims about it. T= he > way I see it, the main ROLIE benefits are: > 1) Open interface for virtually any type of cybersecurity information. Wh= ile > most existing tools focus on a specific kind of info, ROLIE seeks to be t= he > common language. > 2) Distributed model making it make new data available in an existing > network and have it be found by users. > 3) Stateless communication model simplifies use. (You dance around this i= n > 4.3, but spend most of that time talking about other supposed aspects of > RESTful systems and less about the state.) I think these are important va= lues > of ROLIE and are more real than many of the other claims. >=20 > Section 4.1: > - General comment: I have read this section a few times and still do not > understand what you are claiming. In first paragraph you point out the ol= d > way requires consumers to gather information and then to evaluate it. Thu= s > (by implication), a contrasting new way would just have the data appear, = and > for it to be the right data even if the consumer doesn't know what they > need. > By contrast, in the last paragraph you talk about more typical "search a = body > of data and request what you need". Again, you state how the old ways are > weak, but then describe a solution that seems to use those same methods. >=20 > Section 4.2: > - Section title: I think "Knowledge *Aggregation*" is the wrong word. > Aggregation implies that many sources are being integrated into a unified= set > of information. What you describe in paragraph 1 is "having lots of > information", paragraph 2 is "having the right information", and paragrap= h 3 > alludes to a federated model. I'm not really sure what your main point is= , but > it doesn't seem to be "aggregation". >=20 > Section 4.3: > - Paragraph 2, sentence 1: "A key aspect of any RESTful Web service is th= e > ability to provide multiple resource representations." - This is an aspec= t of > multiple RESTful implementations (HTTP, Atom, etc.), but it is not part o= f any > definition of the RST Model itself as far as I have found. My understandi= ng is > that REST is about the exchange more than the data. Maybe I'm looking at > the wrong reference... > - Paragraph 3, sentence 1: "Finally, an important principle of the REST > architectural style is the focus on hypermedia as the engine of applicati= on > state (HATEOAS)." - I think this statement is a mischaracterization. HATE= OAS > is defined as a constraint/refinement of REST. As such, it builds on REST > rather than serving as a core principle of it. >=20 See top of message. > Section 5.1 > - Figure: I think you need an ellipsis or some other indicator of variabl= e > numbers, or does each service contain exactly two Workspaces, each with > one Collection, and each of those with one child? >=20 Each workspace and collection can be zero to many. We'll add some notation = to show that cardinality. > Section 5.1.1 > - Bullet 1: "I'm confused by this recommendation. If a Workspace containe= d a > mix of public and private data, would it not be possible to hide the priv= ate > data in that case? What about the case where you have multiple levels of > access for private data - should each level have its own workspace? I'm > assuming ROLIE supports highly granular access controls, so the "separate > workspace for public and private data so that private data can be hidden" > seems like it fails to encompass the versatility that people will want to= have." We've provided this just as a recommendation because there are a couple way= to handle the situation. You certainly could hide each collection independ= ently, you could even hide entries individually. By moving the authenticati= on check to the highest level available you avoid potential performance iss= ues and reduce the attack surface. >=20 > I hope this is helpful. I'll try to have comments on more of the spec soo= n. >=20 > Charles >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: mile [mailto:mile-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Nancy > > Cam-Winget > > (ncamwing) > > Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2017 6:27 PM > > To: mile@ietf.org > > Subject: [mile] Working group last call for ROLIE > > > > Colleagues, > > > > > > > > Given the significant changes made to the last draft, we are doing > > another 30day WGLC for > > > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mile-rolie-06 > > > > > > > > Please provide comments before May 1st and provide your support and/ > > or raise any issue you feel are yet to be addressed. > > > > > > > > Regards, Nancy >=20 > _______________________________________________ > mile mailing list > mile@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mile From nobody Mon Apr 24 14:22:21 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mile@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mile@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D22113193F for ; Mon, 24 Apr 2017 14:22:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=mitre.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SRRLURfto8OV for ; Mon, 24 Apr 2017 14:22:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpvmsrv1.mitre.org (smtpvmsrv1.mitre.org [192.52.194.136]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAEEB1294A6 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 2017 14:22:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpvmsrv1.mitre.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 188CF6FC01D; Mon, 24 Apr 2017 17:22:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from imshyb02.MITRE.ORG (imshyb02.mitre.org [129.83.29.3]) by smtpvmsrv1.mitre.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B58A6FC021; Mon, 24 Apr 2017 17:22:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from imshyb01.MITRE.ORG (129.83.29.2) by imshyb02.MITRE.ORG (129.83.29.3) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1263.5; Mon, 24 Apr 2017 17:22:16 -0400 Received: from gcc01-CY1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (10.140.19.249) by imshyb01.MITRE.ORG (129.83.29.2) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1263.5 via Frontend Transport; Mon, 24 Apr 2017 17:22:17 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mitre.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector1-mitre-org; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version; bh=Lfn6CqwpGD6ZztvAbw9jnl/6vTJopIIgEiJlwjEVfU8=; b=HvLHzG6d8Dx6U6XWFQEIA26ncmLac1OR5EMFfXw2Y0dsNeS952ZvuR0UtVtu4rrGhjXfwdv5Gk3sJJxtB/czJ9P3qKwErPs91+yUReUqCZDfL2IIJjiBZShaDVnTFyz8cjUlMe84IDs8pPGrWGonpLEPGaH9SH59Bc0Y+Rmb4fg= Received: from CY1PR09MB0889.namprd09.prod.outlook.com (10.163.43.27) by CY1PR09MB0892.namprd09.prod.outlook.com (10.163.43.30) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1047.13; Mon, 24 Apr 2017 21:22:09 +0000 Received: from CY1PR09MB0889.namprd09.prod.outlook.com ([10.163.43.27]) by CY1PR09MB0889.namprd09.prod.outlook.com ([10.163.43.27]) with mapi id 15.01.1047.019; Mon, 24 Apr 2017 21:22:09 +0000 From: "Schmidt, Charles M." To: "Banghart, Stephen A. (Fed)" CC: "mile@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Working group last call for ROLIE Thread-Index: AQHSqBrX3wNPiZjeRUuG2OC1scqiSqHVDH4wgAAQRaCAABFqEA== Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2017 21:22:09 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: nist.gov; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;nist.gov; dmarc=none action=none header.from=mitre.org; x-originating-ip: [192.160.51.89] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; CY1PR09MB0892; 7:ur3fFxoKmATiVdgNJrcxAUif1GzBCOoOKZOa5ma8GK8/XL7/GGEx7bt954o6yqi6f8v4VSPvfXDMjJl6XqGYJjYiw9y4lnvYxFAMQdxZednvtHEVZO3PTMfw0eTkD3/Lz/RB2znVTreRJ/OXiVuRj+l0OClAQJek62fujt+ko3yDa6LC5bjYbpfJLvKYLk6iCcS9ooavdU4ec3CEKlGN49vNRjiM79+iXFy3qieByAFprLfhXHf3dyJoVayecF/1/lPTeLFzhOcrUNJTASzVXPG/b/liMtaOBZNd+OKf17ntrXSvRCuTlXCyiPTCvMSk4iXIr3perny06zVXRzhLrw== x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 06d7f84c-66cb-4440-6cbf-08d48b57f794 x-ms-office365-filtering-ht: Tenant x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(22001)(2017030254075)(48565401081)(201703131423075)(201703031133081); SRVR:CY1PR09MB0892; x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:; x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(6040450)(601004)(2401047)(8121501046)(5005006)(93006095)(93001095)(10201501046)(3002001)(6055026)(6041248)(201703131423075)(201702281528075)(201703061421075)(20161123560025)(20161123562025)(20161123555025)(20161123564025)(6072148); SRVR:CY1PR09MB0892; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:CY1PR09MB0892; x-forefront-prvs: 0287BBA78D x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10009020)(6009001)(39840400002)(39860400002)(39850400002)(39400400002)(39410400002)(51914003)(8936002)(86362001)(54356999)(74316002)(8676002)(81166006)(76176999)(2900100001)(33656002)(77096006)(66066001)(4326008)(6506006)(7736002)(3660700001)(305945005)(50986999)(25786009)(3280700002)(8656002)(122556002)(2906002)(6436002)(6916009)(2950100002)(7696004)(53936002)(6116002)(5660300001)(6246003)(189998001)(229853002)(38730400002)(99286003)(55016002)(102836003)(110136004)(3846002)(9686003); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; SCL:1; SRVR:CY1PR09MB0892; H:CY1PR09MB0889.namprd09.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; MLV:sfv; LANG:en; spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 24 Apr 2017 21:22:09.7216 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: c620dc48-1d50-4952-8b39-df4d54d74d82 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: CY1PR09MB0892 X-OriginatorOrg: mitre.org Archived-At: Subject: Re: [mile] Working group last call for ROLIE X-BeenThere: mile@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Managed Incident Lightweight Exchange, IODEF extensions and RID exchanges" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2017 21:22:19 -0000 Hi Stephen, Thanks for the response. I have one follow-up to your follow-up: > > Section 5.1.1 > > - Bullet 1: "I'm confused by this recommendation. If a Workspace contai= ned > a > > mix of public and private data, would it not be possible to hide the pr= ivate > > data in that case? What about the case where you have multiple levels o= f > > access for private data - should each level have its own workspace? I'm > > assuming ROLIE supports highly granular access controls, so the "separa= te > > workspace for public and private data so that private data can be hidde= n" > > seems like it fails to encompass the versatility that people will want = to > have." >=20 > We've provided this just as a recommendation because there are a couple > way to handle the situation. You certainly could hide each collection > independently, you could even hide entries individually. By moving the > authentication check to the highest level available you avoid potential > performance issues and reduce the attack surface. This makes sense. I think my confusion was that it sounded to me like you w= ere saying that people SHOULD follow this design choice because this was *t= he* way to control visibility of the content. Based on your response, it so= unds like you are citing this as one way to effectively manage visibility, = but it is not the only way. I wonder if it might be clearer if instead of s= aying "It is RECOMMENDED that public and private Collections be segregated = into different Workspaces" the document could say, "One way of efficiently = controlling visibility of continent is to have public and private Collectio= ns be segregated into different Workspaces." Maybe you could further drive = home that ROLIE is not tied to this model by appending "ROLIE supports othe= r ways of organizing Collections and because ROLIE supports fine-grained ac= cess control, owners can control visibility of content regardless of how Co= llections are organized."=20 Does this make sense? Thanks, Charles From nobody Thu Apr 27 10:28:41 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mile@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mile@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C66B129494 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2017 10:28:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.521 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.521 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IaFVBxOMesX8 for ; Thu, 27 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([64.101.220.155]) with mapi id 15.00.1210.000; Thu, 27 Apr 2017 13:25:21 -0400 From: "Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwing)" To: "Panos Kampanakis (pkampana)" , Takeshi Takahashi , "mile@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [mile] Working group last call for XMPP-grid Thread-Index: AdKp0cx73PIO71MiRLmhQ3n63vW2uAIOpaBQA1Vsi4A= Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2017 17:25:21 +0000 Message-ID: <9E6495CE-DE8C-4FF5-89B7-1474097150DD@cisco.com> References: <000901d2a9d1$eaff3ae0$c0fdb0a0$@nict.go.jp> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.1a.0.160910 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [171.68.122.30] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_9E6495CEDE8C4FF589B71474097150DDciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [mile] Working group last call for XMPP-grid X-BeenThere: mile@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: 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XCH-RTP-011.cisco.com (xch-rtp-011.cisco.com [64.101.220.151]) by alln-core-1.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v3RHgiw4009939 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 27 Apr 2017 17:42:44 GMT Received: from xch-rtp-015.cisco.com (64.101.220.155) by XCH-RTP-011.cisco.com (64.101.220.151) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1210.3; Thu, 27 Apr 2017 13:42:44 -0400 Received: from xch-rtp-015.cisco.com ([64.101.220.155]) by XCH-RTP-015.cisco.com ([64.101.220.155]) with mapi id 15.00.1210.000; Thu, 27 Apr 2017 13:42:44 -0400 From: "Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwing)" To: Adam Montville , Takeshi Takahashi , "mile@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [mile] Working group last call for XMPP-grid Thread-Index: AdKp0cx73PIO71MiRLmhQ3n63vW2uAQNB9EAAVem0YA= Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2017 17:42:43 +0000 Message-ID: References: <000901d2a9d1$eaff3ae0$c0fdb0a0$@nict.go.jp> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.1a.0.160910 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [171.68.122.30] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_BB375E9836674E04BC6552F0546E5A1Cciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [mile] Working group last call for XMPP-grid X-BeenThere: mile@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Managed Incident Lightweight Exchange, IODEF extensions and RID exchanges" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2017 17:46:02 -0000 --_000_BB375E9836674E04BC6552F0546E5A1Cciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 TWFueSB0aGFua3MgZm9yIHRoZSBmdWxsIHJldmlldyBBZGFtISAgSSB3aWxsIHRha2UgY2FyZSBv ZiB0aGUgbml0cyBpbiB0aGUgbmV4dCByZXZpc2lvbi4gIE1lYW53aGlsZSwgcGxlYXNlIHNlZSBm dXJ0aGVyIGNvbW1lbnRzIG9uIHRoZSBub24tbml0cyBiZWxvdzoNCg0KRnJvbTogbWlsZSA8bWls 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(ncamwing)" To: Dave Cridland , Takeshi Takahashi , Peter Saint-Andre CC: "mile@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [mile] Working group last call for XMPP-grid Thread-Index: AdKp0cx73PIO71MiRLmhQ3n63vW2uAQQJcaAAVUv5wA= Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2017 18:01:25 +0000 Message-ID: References: <000901d2a9d1$eaff3ae0$c0fdb0a0$@nict.go.jp> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.1a.0.160910 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [171.68.122.30] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_B7DA0AEA0C7E4A05BFBD823F84D80282ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [mile] Working group last call for XMPP-grid X-BeenThere: mile@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Managed Incident Lightweight Exchange, IODEF extensions and RID exchanges" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: 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<000901d2a9d1$eaff3ae0$c0fdb0a0$@nict.go.jp> From: Dave Cridland Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2017 19:58:57 +0100 Message-ID: To: "Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwing)" Cc: Takeshi Takahashi , Peter Saint-Andre , "mile@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [mile] Working group last call for XMPP-grid X-BeenThere: mile@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Managed Incident Lightweight Exchange, IODEF extensions and RID exchanges" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2017 19:02:28 -0000 On 27 April 2017 at 19:01, Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwing) wrote: > Hi David and Peter, > > > > While I thought we had explained the differences, we apparently did not d= o > it well enough. > > So your points are well taken and I will rework the draft to better layou= t > where XMPP-Grid is explicitly XMPP > > And where the extensions were made. Additionally, I=E2=80=99ll work (th= rough the > use of IODEF) in providing the > > Full example for how this is achieved. > > > > I have a couple more questions/comments below: > > > > On 4/20/17, 9:12 AM, "mile on behalf of Dave Cridland" > wrote: > > > > Folks, > > > > TL/DR: This shouldn't be published, possibly ever, certainly not in > > its current state. > > > > I remain bewildered as to what this specification offers above and > > beyond XEP-0060, and I cannot implement from this specification. > > [NCW] This will be part of the rework as XMPP-Grid does actually use > XEP-0060 > Only partially. Publishing and the events are used, but not subscriptions, = etc. > > > This is, in part, because the document is written in essentially two > > parts - one describes how good it'll be once you've got it, and the > > other has some very lightweight sketches of what the protocol might > > look like if it were specified, and most of those appear to be > > reinventions of existing XMPP protocol extensions. > > > > An example is registration. The authors have elected to write their > > own registration protocol, rather than use XEP-0077. Perhaps this is > > needed, but it's not clear because the behaviour of a Controller when > > given a registration request isn't specified. I have no idea what a > > Controller is meant to do with the registration. Maybe register. But > > if I don't, does it work anyway? Who knows. It's in an XML namespace > > which appears to be, at best non-traditional, at worst illegal. The > > register element, despite being empty, is spelt out "in full" with > > both opening and closing tags, which seems odd - perhaps the > > serializer used does this and it's a cut and paste. > > [NCW] There is actually no registration, the step was meant to show the u= se > of > > XMPP=E2=80=99s SASL/TLS connection. Will improve it by keeping it to the= XMPP > nomenclature > > If that will help as we are not using XEP-0070 but rather RFC 6120. > You explicitly document a protocol exchange using an AccountQuery element shown in =C2=A72.6 as the first example: This is absolutely not part of RFC 6120, and if "there is actually no registration", then this specification is incorrect. Note also: 1) "gi" is not strictly a valid URI, and therefore not a valid XML namespace URI. 2) The same goes for "com.domain.gi.gcl.Controller", which appears to be a Java classname. 3) The first register tag is self-closed; the second is a spurious close tag which should not be present. 4) It's sent to the grid controller (which has a jid I'm mildly concerned is illegal since it contains an underscore in the domain portion). > > > > > Then there's a "login" and "logout". A "login" looks reasonable modul= o > > the horrible use of incorrect XML namespacing, though again I have > > absolutely no idea what it might do, and what the requirement is here= . > > The login result, on the other hand, is special - it's placed in the > > default namespace (ie, xmlns=3D""), which really should not be used. = It > > contains a element, with a default-namespaced attribute. I > > didn't even know that was legal, so I'm impressed. The meaning of > > , and whether xsi:nil can also be set to "false", is not > > explained. Perhaps that's obvious. > > [NCW] The notion of the =E2=80=9Clogin=E2=80=9D is meant to be part of RF= C 6120, so will > clean that up. > > Can you help highlight why you believe it is incorrect XML namespacing? > > The =E2=80=9Clogout=E2=80=9D was added to allow the server side to explic= it cleanup if the > client sends that message. > Ah, I used the wrong terminology there. This has the same complaints as the above register. The response, however, is more interestingly broken. The login element here has been explicitly placed in the empty namespace - the namespace everything resides in if XML namespaces are never declared. The value element also resides in this namespace, but has two namespace prefix declarations - one for the prefix ns2, which is never used. The "xsi" namespace prefix is also set to the empty namespace, but only used for an attribute. It's not clear if what you have: is equivalent to the following: For comparison, these two are certainly not equivalent: However, it's not clear that binding a prefix to the empty string is actually allowed at all - the TR simply says this MAY be done for the default namespace declaration (ie, no prefix). I've no idea how actual XML processors will treat this. > > > Typically, in XMPP, we have used presence to indicate client > > availability - but without knowing whether this is what's intended > > with the login/logout construct, I have no idea if that meets the > > requirements - it's only mentioned in passing in =C2=A72.4. > > [NCW] Yes, for the XMPP use in the data plane, we could use the presence, > but there may > > be instances in which XMPP is not used to share information which is why = we > added the explicit > > =E2=80=98logout=E2=80=99. > Yes... But if you're gatewaying through from another protocol, the gateway can do the presence. It has to, after all, do the login/logout instead. Using presence has various advantages - for one thing, the server will automatically send unavailable presence if the device is disconnected. > > > The "getCapabilityListRequest", which is also in the default > > namespace, is another example of reinventing a perfectly serviceable > > wheel. XEP-0030 includes a full suite of discovery, and for that > > matter the XMPP community has been using "versioned" namespaces to > > offer parallel revisions of services for many years, with much > > success. > > > > In this entirely new capability discovery, however, the response > > includes a set of triples of "id", "name", and "version". None of > > these are explained. The example contains a lengthy list of > > capabilities, none of which seem to be documented anywhere. > > [NCW] XMPP-Grid does indeed not use XEP-0030 as there may be instances in > which > > XMPP may not be used to share the information but rather other > interfaces=E2=80=A6..and will > > Update the draft to ensure we cover the needed information. > I'm reading this as, "The existing design might not be suitable in all cases, so everyone must use our new design in all cases". This confuses me. XEP-0030 can transport both simple string-based feature capabilities, and dataforms containing arbitrary structured data. It is also the incumbent standard, so if you'd like to supplant it you will need to provide a solid argument. > > > > > Next up - sorry, there's nothing so simple as section numbers here - > > there's DiscoveryQuery, which looks suspiciously like it might be a > > rendition of Java introspection over XMPP. It says it responds with a > > hostname; it doesn't, instead it responds with a Jid. Again, this kin= d > > of discovery is supported within XEP-0030 - it's a disco#items > > request, so not search-based, but the functionality is there > > nonetheless, and certainly doesn't need rewriting from scratch. > > > > Publisher registration is, I think, new - XEP-0060 does not have > > anything similar that I can immediately think of. > > > > Subscription, on the other hand, is very much within XEP-0060. I have > > literally no idea why this isn't used. > > > > Publishing actually does, here, use XEP-0060 - though no mention of > > the fact is made, and there's no documentation of the payload format. > > > > The security considerations section seems mostly OK, but please note > > that =C2=A75.3.1 suddenly decides to replace the transport layer with= HTTP, > > which is mildly confusing to say the least. How we're supposed to > > authenticate over XMPP using an HTTP authentication mechanism is > > unknown. > > > > So what we have here is a vast amount of NIH, plus - if my > > understanding is correct - one added feature, that'd make a two-page > > XEP. > > > > This is *not* to say that XMPP has no place in CTI sharing; in fact I > > think it's very useful. But by departing from existing, well-defined > > XMPP protocol extensions, this specification promptly loses many > > advantages. As an example, while XEP-0060 provides a reasonably > > complete pubsub service on its own, it can be enhanced by XEP-0314 > > into permitting originator-controlled data labelling, which in turn > > can be used for access control, highly useful in federated > > environments. Instead of poorly describing a new protocol extension > > which duplicates existing work, it'd be much better if the document > > described how to use existing protocol effectively - and indeed, wher= e > > the document is doing so, it works well. > > > > Dave. > > (Personal opinion, not as XMPP Council or XMPP Standards Foundation). > > > > On 31 March 2017 at 04:50, Takeshi Takahashi > > wrote: > > > Hello all, > > > > > > This is a WGLC for draft-ietf-mile-xmpp-grid. > > > The version to be reviewed is > > > https://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-mile-xmpp-grid-02.txt > > > > > > We will have 1 month for this call. > > > Please provide comments before May 1st and provide your support and= / > or > > > raise any issue you feel are yet to be addressed. > > > > > > Thank you. > > > Take > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > mile mailing list > > > mile@ietf.org > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mile > > > > _______________________________________________ > > mile mailing list > > mile@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mile > > From nobody Thu Apr 27 13:01:57 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mile@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mile@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DEB6712952D for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2017 13:01:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.401 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.401 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=1.5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RUiv_gCqmbRW for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2017 13:01:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailext.sit.fraunhofer.de (mailext.sit.fraunhofer.de [141.12.72.89]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 225A0129486 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2017 12:58:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.sit.fraunhofer.de (mail.sit.fraunhofer.de [141.12.84.171]) by mailext.sit.fraunhofer.de (8.14.4/8.14.4/Debian-2ubuntu2.1) with ESMTP id v3RJw82g009490 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Thu, 27 Apr 2017 21:58:11 +0200 Received: from [192.168.43.25] (80.187.107.79) by mail.sit.fraunhofer.de (141.12.84.171) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.319.2; Thu, 27 Apr 2017 21:58:02 +0200 To: Takeshi Takahashi , "mile@ietf.org" , "Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwing)" From: Henk Birkholz Message-ID: Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2017 21:58:01 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: [80.187.107.79] Archived-At: Subject: Re: [mile] Working group last call for XMPP-grid X-BeenThere: mile@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Managed Incident Lightweight Exchange, IODEF extensions and RID exchanges" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2017 20:01:56 -0000 Hello mile, hello authors, a few nits and comments regarding the current draft. Also, a small prelude. On one hand, the usage scenarios defined in the xmpp-grid draft, illustrated by the different deployment architectures, highlight how valuable and flexible this contribution could be. The draft has potential to provide a very versatile solution that addresses the question: "where do the semantics go?". Either specific (sub-)topics with strong semantic binding (and more raw'ish content) or general topics with content on the data-plane that provides corresponding semantic context via metadata included in the messages. This approach could be quite useful for various kinds of information sharing or event distribution in automated systems. On the other hand, both structure and content of the draft require significant work in order to make this draft a valuable contribution. In consequence, a list of nits: In 1.1. “Publisher: A capability provider sharing contet information” Content In 1.3.: “contextual information ("Topics") (described in Section 3.3 and 3.5)“ Reference is out-dated. In 1.3.: “split into a logical control plane, whereas information exchange is considered a logical data plane” The draft highlights that ‘management information' can be transported via the data plane. What about the management interfaces of xmpp-grid itself? Are these out of scope? E.g. configuration of methods to secure the xmpp-grid data plane or content authorization (authorization to subscribe). In 1.3.: “The operations carried out by XMPP-Grid”. At this point a reader might wonder which XEP are used for which operation. The first mention of XEP is in 2.1. Maybe highlight the usage of existing XEP (and RFC or other specifications, analogously) earlier (or - in some places - at all)? In 1.3.: “Broker-Flow:” Is this first option a pub/sub model? (see next nit) In 1.3.: “Centralized Data-Flow” This is phrased confusing, I think. Is the use of an optional centralized database mandatory in this option? :) In general, the list of three options here seems to imply that data plane traffic is either directly transferred between two xmpp-grid Nodes, or the broker includes a centralized database and enforces a common information structure. Is there no option that provides a data plane flow through the controller via a pub/sub model without (as with the Proxy-Flow option) requiring a common information structure? The text is too open to interpretation and in consequence requires work to clarify. In 1.3.: “data exchange modes”: Seems to require the optional Bulk historic data query. At the moment it is implied this works only with an enforced common information structure. Is that correct? Text requires work (structure & content nit) to clarify. In 1.5. Figure 1 is not referenced in the text, it seems. In 2. Figure 2 is not referenced in the text, it seems. It also seems that Figures are used as elaborate headings, in general. :) While this actually is not as confusing as it sounds, I would strongly recommend to change that style (structure nit). In 2.1.: There is a list item that has an empty level one and continues with nested level two itemized list. In 2.1.: “The XMPP extensions used in XMPP-Grid” XMPP extensions and XMPP extension protocols seems to be used synonymously (which might be common practice?) The acronym XEP should be added to the glossary of terms (which is a curious name, btw). In 2.2.: “XMPP-Grid defines an infrastructure protocol that hides the nuances of the XMPP data plane protocol and makes the information sharing models extensible with simple intuitive APIs.” This passage indirectly implies that a kind of… overlay abstraction on top of xmpp is introduced via this draft? The benefits of the contribution should be highlighted explicitly. The concepts of registration, subscription and login have different semantic meaning (see 2.4.2 nits), I am sure. In 2.3.: “XMPP-Grid Controller manages all control aspects of the Node communication (including management) with the XMPP-Grid and other participating Nodes with mutual trust and authorizations' enforcement.” Manages including management… rephrase please :) In 2.3.: “Through a centralized authorization model, XMPP-Grid Controller provides -” Should probably end with a colon? In 2.3.: “Figure 3: XMPP Controller Message Flow” It seems that the figure does not illustrate -the- flow, but one of the options? Maybe even the option that is not explicitly highlighted in 1.3.? It seems that Figure 3 is also not referenced by the text, again. Which deployment architecture does this figure fit? Maybe there should be a figure for each deployment architecture option? In 2.4.2.: The use of the login/logout mechanic should be explicitly described in the context of registration and subscription. What is the added value here, which exact problem is mitigated? The term login is used in this section, but never introduced. It seems to be the abstraction mentioned earlier? And to be “on top of” registration? (2.6. will show an example how it is done, but the reader is probably still pretty unclear about the purpose of this operation). In 2.4.2.: “mutual authentication trust-based auto-approval registration” What this actually means is elaborated on in 5.3.1. (some hints are already provided in 2.4.1., e.g. TLS, x.509, SASL), I think. An improvement of text structure might be required. In general, it is probably beneficial (and less surprising) to highlight which building-blocks are used in xmpp-grid as an overview earlier in the draft. (possibly using ascii art) (note: pls see 2.6. nit) In 2.4.2.: “The administrator may map the Nodes to the Node groups” What is a node group? This is related to the nit about the management plane being in scope or not, I think. In 2.4.2.: “Multiple Node applications running on a Node could use one XMPP-Grid Node to connect to XMPP-Grid.” Node applications are the… names used in the boxes in Figure 1? The term is not introduced sufficiently. In 2.4.3.: “XMPP data plane server” What is that? I am pretty sure that these are the boxes in Figure 1 again, but nevertheless the term should be introduced and brought into context. In 2.4.3.: How are authorization privileges defined? In 2.4.3.: “Node identity extracted from the request, group to which the Node is assigned during account approval and Topic/capability to which the permission is sought could be some of the ways to authorize Nodes and their requests in XMPP-Grid.” Rephrase… please. Also, this is the first time that topic and capability seem to be used synonymously. The glossary does not really help here, but it should (content & structure nit)! What is the exact relationship between topic, capability and data plane server (which is probably a providing Node)? In 2.4.3.: “rule evaluation engine” What is that? Is that a component not in scope of this document but required? (Interfaces?) In 2.4.3.: “Based this result,” Based on this result. In 2.4.3.: “trust store” What is that? Probably something that should go into the glossary? In 2.5.: MUST a provider provide a schema for the content it produces on the data plane via a topic? It reads that way, but would contradict text before. In 2.5.1.: “The providers of capability include the version number in the messages they publish and the receiving Nodes can interpret the Topic version and process the attributes accordingly.” The heading of this section is topic versioning, but the text seems to describe message versioning? In 2.5.3.: “XMPP-Grid supports semantic message filtering for Topics.” This phrasing implies that the content of the message is a factor for filtering, but 2.5. implies that this is out of scope. “categories based on domain, location of endpoints for example” already clarifies it, but the start of the section should be revised. In 2.5.3.: “XMPP-Grid subscribers query the Controller and obtain the filtering options available for each capability” This phrasing implies that there is a specific way to represent/express filtering options. The draft lacks details how this control plane content is to be conveyed, though? In 2.6.: “Register the Node to XMPP-Grid“ & “Node login to XMPP-Grid”: As mentioned above, both operations have to be illustrated in a larger context, their different purposes described explicitly, and the delta (which would be the contribution, I think) highlighted. In 3.: I was surprised that there is no mapping of (or guidance how to map) IODEF content to specific standard topic names. Would that be in scope? Viele Grüße, Henk From nobody Thu Apr 27 13:30:37 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mile@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mile@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F8CF129C3E for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2017 13:30:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nistgov.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XfDTZyonPdYh for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2017 13:30:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gcc01-dm2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-dm2gcc01on0137.outbound.protection.outlook.com [23.103.201.137]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 389D2129AC5 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2017 13:27:18 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=nistgov.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector1-nist-gov; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version; bh=gk3thX0VlqlTZuJ9dCYBwrfViu0dD/6SabA70Uz4F5w=; b=bVbCwiSCcxn8L0npNVG6dS6gaM//OQAW75TtquyQPwwuvzMTvg7ssc5ivyhcmGXISpoqAIIlXiqKfSKz9wV+GYY/an7t7aJMSzk1kHE/IIFeG6INxAPjVeMnh9QXGpYVPTxVasDFsIM9HuXqqvHfNT4uf0MKkl4FA9vUK3QIXJU= Received: from MWHPR09MB1440.namprd09.prod.outlook.com (10.173.50.14) by MWHPR09MB1440.namprd09.prod.outlook.com (10.173.50.14) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1047.13; Thu, 27 Apr 2017 20:27:16 +0000 Received: from MWHPR09MB1440.namprd09.prod.outlook.com ([10.173.50.14]) by MWHPR09MB1440.namprd09.prod.outlook.com ([10.173.50.14]) with mapi id 15.01.1047.021; Thu, 27 Apr 2017 20:27:16 +0000 From: "Waltermire, David A. 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(Fed)" , "mile@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Working group last call for ROLIE Thread-Index: AQHSqBrX3wNPiZjeRUuG2OC1scqiSqHZ1oAg///UpgA= Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2017 20:42:47 +0000 Message-ID: <3471DC95-25F2-4CE5-9DCE-C19083EB54D0@cisco.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.1a.0.160910 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [171.68.122.30] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_3471DC9525F24CE59DCEC19083EB54D0ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [mile] Working group last call for ROLIE X-BeenThere: mile@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Managed Incident Lightweight Exchange, IODEF extensions and RID exchanges" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2017 20:46:05 -0000 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--_000_3471DC9525F24CE59DCEC19083EB54D0ciscocom_-- From nobody Fri Apr 28 06:48:08 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mile@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mile@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84291120726 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2017 06:48:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nistgov.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hPMCJq-9R0ja for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2017 06:48:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 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(Fed)" To: "Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwing)" , "mile@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Working group last call for ROLIE Thread-Index: AQHSqBrX3wNPiZjeRUuG2OC1scqiSqHZ1oAg///UpgCAAU8ZsA== Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2017 13:44:49 +0000 Message-ID: References: <3471DC95-25F2-4CE5-9DCE-C19083EB54D0@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <3471DC95-25F2-4CE5-9DCE-C19083EB54D0@cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: cisco.com; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;cisco.com; dmarc=none action=none header.from=nist.gov; x-originating-ip: [129.6.224.58] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; MWHPR09MB1437; 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(Fed)" , "mile@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Working group last call for ROLIE Thread-Index: AQHSqBrX3wNPiZjeRUuG2OC1scqiSqHZ1oAg///UpgCAAU8ZsP//8MeA Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2017 15:47:41 +0000 Message-ID: <679FE5BB-6EE6-4330-BF21-0F474F7AC639@cisco.com> References: <3471DC95-25F2-4CE5-9DCE-C19083EB54D0@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.1a.0.160910 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.41.32.41] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_679FE5BB6EE64330BF210F474F7AC639ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [mile] Working group last call for ROLIE X-BeenThere: mile@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Managed Incident Lightweight Exchange, IODEF extensions and RID exchanges" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , 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11:03:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=/iB2JHX+TeSy9Ykq6UqbeXZRe2l77xrhM2GBah9XF9o=; b=Zy6u1ELX7dFjGCrRXGhKCM1NT1vDOMXRBRS5gYHHw3PWi5SpC1mWqEgSPGnsxB34Xr SUMHroaYEikdlvzTZIGtpg+2nIz3jLZH/rlxyg+fvAc+JMPu9wRGWdaFoSvN7KvFcUu8 bRh59KsvXfCs8tTZE0DrBqsD77jkLZ0+ir0+OOayjhXh//+cEivE3aFFWn4XSMthwR7/ 70rd8asdHP4x9bbQ61wlBfSn68sVbA1MBN36eVVRBlztyLYDE0gP3MmP+eJy3tJrhn7V SmC8vtEBlOB6IeKRs8v9kmSB/f0p5Z7Q1gWqROR/rxCRb5pn4V4LJoygHvsZiXUeWvkd 2YWw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=/iB2JHX+TeSy9Ykq6UqbeXZRe2l77xrhM2GBah9XF9o=; b=OPlqIkTs7olz1L+Pk/5ZX6OpHrbtGXqf1Aax11iuUVLsoCQasjuvKdsP5knq0+rk3P HzIZ2EoA2iPCg9pA7/odmIDR49hsgV69uSXEElWYIOSWu0DnQD7fhURhQvK3GyTGdUX+ 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(Fed)" Cc: "Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwing)" , "mile@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [mile] Working group last call for ROLIE X-BeenThere: mile@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Managed Incident Lightweight Exchange, IODEF extensions and RID exchanges" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2017 18:06:24 -0000 Hi Nancy, On Fri, Apr 28, 2017 at 9:44 AM, Waltermire, David A. (Fed) wrote: > Nancy, > > > > Thanks for agreeing to review. We are happy with how much review the draf= t > is getting and are happy to see the WGLC delayed to allow it to receive m= ore > review. This will only help to improve the draft in the end. > > > > Thanks, > > Dave > > > > From: Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwing) [mailto:ncamwing@cisco.com] > Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2017 4:43 PM > To: Waltermire, David A. (Fed) ; mile@ietf.org > Subject: Re: Working group last call for ROLIE > > > > > > Hi David, > > > > I am starting a review of this draft too J > > I personally don=E2=80=99t have concerns, though that would also need to = be > reviewed=E2=80=A6.so we=E2=80=99d have to delay the WGLC hopefully not by= much=E2=80=A6.but would be > good to hear Kathleen as AD provide feedback as well=E2=80=A6 > I usually do my AD review after WGLC, when the draft is sent for IESG publication. Thanks, Kathleen > > > Nancy > > From: "Waltermire, David A. (Fed)" > Date: Thursday, April 27, 2017 at 1:27 PM > To: "ncamwing@cisco.com" , "mile@ietf.org" > > Subject: RE: Working group last call for ROLIE > > > > After talking with a few people, I have realized it might be a good idea = to > allow for a private use portion of the ROLIE property namespace defined i= n > section 8.3. This would be in addition to the current specification requi= red > portion of the namespace. This would allow private extensions to be tried > out on a local server basis. A registration of =E2=80=9Cproperty:local=E2= =80=9D could set > aside the portion of the namespace for local use. Local properties could > then follow the pattern =E2=80=9Curn:ietf:params:rolie:property:local:{na= me}=E2=80=9D where > name is a locally used private property. > > > > Any concerns with adding this? > > > > Regards, > > Dave > > > > From: mile [mailto:mile-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Nancy Cam-Winget > (ncamwing) > Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2017 7:27 PM > To: mile@ietf.org > Subject: [mile] Working group last call for ROLIE > > > > Colleagues, > > > > Given the significant changes made to the last draft, we are doing anothe= r > 30day WGLC for > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mile-rolie-06 > > > > Please provide comments before May 1st and provide your support and/ or > raise any issue you feel are yet to be addressed. > > > > Regards, Nancy > > > _______________________________________________ > mile mailing list > mile@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mile > --=20 Best regards, Kathleen From nobody Sun Apr 30 18:29:30 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mile@ietf.org Delivered-To: mile@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B08DA1277BB; Sun, 30 Apr 2017 18:29:28 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "\"IETF Meeting Session Request Tool\"" To: Cc: mile@ietf.org, Kathleen.Moriarty.ietf@gmail.com, takeshi_takahashi@ieee.org, mile-chairs@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.50.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <149360216862.9776.10071434412594609242.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2017 18:29:28 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [mile] mile - New Meeting Session Request for IETF 99 X-BeenThere: mile@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "Managed Incident Lightweight Exchange, IODEF extensions and RID exchanges" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 May 2017 01:29:29 -0000 A new meeting session request has just been submitted by Takeshi Takahashi, a Chair of the mile working group. --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: Managed Incident Lightweight Exchange Area Name: Security Area Session Requester: Takeshi Takahashi Number of Sessions: 1 Length of Session(s): 1.5 Hours Number of Attendees: 30 Conflicts to Avoid: First Priority: anima core dots i2nsf ipwave ipsecme saag sacm Second Priority: 6tisch appsawg httpbis tls People who must be present: Kathleen Moriarty Nancy Cam-Winget Takeshi Takahashi Resources Requested: Special Requests: --------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Sun Apr 30 18:31:06 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mile@ietf.org Delivered-To: mile@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D6CA129A99; Sun, 30 Apr 2017 18:31:04 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "\"IETF Meeting Session Request Tool\"" To: Cc: mile@ietf.org, Kathleen.Moriarty.ietf@gmail.com, takeshi_takahashi@ieee.org, mile-chairs@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.50.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <149360226422.9939.8721664703698058824.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2017 18:31:04 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [mile] mile - Update to a Meeting Session Request for IETF 99 X-BeenThere: mile@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "Managed Incident Lightweight Exchange, IODEF extensions and RID exchanges" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 May 2017 01:31:04 -0000 An update to a meeting session request has just been submitted by Takeshi Takahashi, a Chair of the mile working group. --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: Managed Incident Lightweight Exchange Area Name: Security Area Session Requester: Takeshi Takahashi Number of Sessions: 1 Length of Session(s): 1.5 Hours Number of Attendees: 30 Conflicts to Avoid: First Priority: anima core dots i2nsf ipwave ipsecme saag sacm Second Priority: 6tisch appsawg httpbis tls People who must be present: Kathleen Moriarty Nancy Cam-Winget David Waltermire Takeshi Takahashi Resources Requested: Special Requests: ---------------------------------------------------------