From mip4-bounces@ietf.org Fri Apr 1 01:45:36 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA28041 for ; Fri, 1 Apr 2005 01:45:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DHG1k-0004K1-La for mip4-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 01 Apr 2005 01:53:08 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DHFrT-0003jz-Kt; Fri, 01 Apr 2005 01:42:31 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DHFrP-0003jq-0v for mip4@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 01 Apr 2005 01:42:27 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA27751 for ; Fri, 1 Apr 2005 01:42:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from av5-1-sn3.vrr.skanova.net ([81.228.9.113]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DHFye-0004Da-Nt for mip4@ietf.org; Fri, 01 Apr 2005 01:49:58 -0500 Received: by av5-1-sn3.vrr.skanova.net (Postfix, from userid 502) id C063037E59; Fri, 1 Apr 2005 08:42:15 +0200 (CEST) Received: from smtp1-1-sn3.vrr.skanova.net (smtp1-1-sn3.vrr.skanova.net [81.228.9.177]) by av5-1-sn3.vrr.skanova.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB9C137E42; Fri, 1 Apr 2005 08:42:15 +0200 (CEST) Received: from shiraz.levkowetz.com (h195n1fls311o871.telia.com [213.64.174.195]) by smtp1-1-sn3.vrr.skanova.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 987EA38006; Fri, 1 Apr 2005 08:42:14 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by shiraz.levkowetz.com with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DHFrC-0006xm-Qt; Fri, 01 Apr 2005 08:42:14 +0200 Message-ID: <424CED46.3080905@levkowetz.com> Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 08:42:14 +0200 From: Henrik Levkowetz User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Macintosh/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [Mip4] A query about CCOA.. References: <4.3.2.7.2.20050331203755.030ae968@mira-sjcm-2.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20050331203755.030ae968@mira-sjcm-2.cisco.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.89.5.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 127.0.0.1 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on shiraz.levkowetz.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0ddefe323dd869ab027dbfff7eff0465 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: mip4@ietf.org, Chaitra M R X-BeenThere: mip4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobility for IPv4 List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip4-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip4-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 82c9bddb247d9ba4471160a9a865a5f3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Additionally, you might want to read draft-ietf-dhc-dna-ipv4-10.txt, which covers the issues involved in detecting that you have moved to a new network. Henrik On 2005-04-01 6:48 am Kent Leung said the following: > Hi Chaitra. The doubts are legitimate as I don't think RFC 3344 covers > the specifics of move detection in CCoA mode. However, CCoA mode > requires the MN to obtain an IP address on the access network. > Typically this is DHCP or PPP/IPCP. Both provide the subnet prefix > which allows the MN to detect if it has changed subnet. In addition, > the IP address would have also changed as well in this case. > > Hope that helps. > > Kent > > At 10:03 AM 4/1/2005 +0530, Chaitra M R wrote: >>Hi All, >> >> Sorry if this question sounds naive. I am new into the mobility >> realm and hence have many doubts. Please bear with me. >> >> This doubt is about co-located care of address. From what I >> understand, using co-located address does not necessiate the >> services of FA right? >> >> Given that the foreign network on to which the MN has moved doesn't >> have an FA and the MN uses CCOA, how can a mobile node determine >> that it has moved to a foreign network? >> >>Regards, >>Chaitra >> >>-- >>Mip4 mailing list: Mip4@ietf.org >> Web interface: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip4 >> Charter page: http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/mip4-charter.html >>Supplemental site: http://www.mip4.org/ > > -- > | | Kent Leung > :|: :|: IP Mobility Development > :|||: :|||: Internet Technologies Division > :|||||||: :|||||||: Voice: 408.526.5030 > .:|||||||||:.:|||||||||:. Fax: 408.525.1653 > c i s c o S y s t e m s Email: kleung@cisco.com > -- Mip4 mailing list: Mip4@ietf.org Web interface: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip4 Charter page: http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/mip4-charter.html Supplemental site: http://www.mip4.org/ From mip4-bounces@ietf.org Sun Apr 3 08:08:09 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA17888 for ; Sun, 3 Apr 2005 08:08:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DI41T-0000so-DB for mip4-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 03 Apr 2005 08:16:12 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DI3sL-0000SA-36; Sun, 03 Apr 2005 08:06:45 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DHMEt-0003IW-Pc; Fri, 01 Apr 2005 08:31:12 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA24382; Fri, 1 Apr 2005 08:31:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from mx1.isti.cnr.it ([194.119.192.3]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DHMMD-000266-Uy; Fri, 01 Apr 2005 08:38:42 -0500 Received: from conversionlocal.isti.cnr.it by mx.isti.cnr.it (PMDF V6.2-1 #31069) id <01LML21BICIO95RMWV@mx.isti.cnr.it>; Fri, 01 Apr 2005 15:30:08 +0100 (MET) Received: from pcpnt.isti.cnr.it (pcpnt.isti.cnr.it [146.48.85.229]) by mx.isti.cnr.it (PMDF V6.2-1 #31069) with ESMTPS id <01LML21B49LQ96WZFK@mx.isti.cnr.it>; Fri, 01 Apr 2005 15:30:07 +0100 (MET) Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 15:38:21 +0200 (CEST) From: "M. Cristina Pinotti" To: performance@msr.csm.ornl.gov, tccc@cs.columbia.edu, dbworld@cs.wisc.edu, terzis@CS.UCLA.EDU, announce@tcos.org, manet@ietf.org, mip4@ietf.org, Jose Duato , das@cse.uta.edu, kumar@cse.uta.edu, chessa@isti.cnr.it, Damla Turgut Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-IP-SOURCE: 146.48.85.229 Auth Optional-NoAuth X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 36b1f8810cb91289d885dc8ab4fc8172 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 03 Apr 2005 08:06:44 -0400 Subject: [Mip4] CFP ASWAN05 X-BeenThere: mip4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobility for IPv4 List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip4-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip4-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 42e3ed3f10a1d8bef690f09da16f507a I'd like to bring to your attention that the deadline for ASWAN05 is approaching. Please consider to send your recent research. I know we are plenty of dealines, but please have a look and consider it. Please distribute to your colleagues. ===================================================== Call for Papers A_SWAN 2005 AlgorithmS for Wireless And mobile Networks Personal, Sensor, Ad-hoc, Cellular Held in conjunction with Mobiquitous San Diego 2005 July 17, 2005 GENERAL CHAIR: Alan A. Bertossi, University of Bologna, Italy PROGRAM CO-CHAIRS: Stephan Olariu, Old Dominion University, U.S.A. Cristina M. Pinotti, University of Perugia, Italy SCOPE: The rapid and continued growth of wireless technology made information accessible anywhere and at any time. At the same time the falling cost of both communication and mobile computing devices has created a great demand for untethered communication and computing. In addition to wireless networks that rely on pre-existing infrastructure, where wireless communications take place only between the end-nodes and the access points, rapidly-deployable self-organizing mobile networks including ad hoc wireless networks and sensor networks are being developed and deployed. To cope with the rapidly increasing number of users and with the increasing demand for mobile services, it is becoming imperious to optimize the management and use of the limited resources inherent to wireless environments. In turn, these specific demands require new "algorithmic" approaches specifically designed to cope with the highly dynamic underlying infrastructure and with the scarce resources available. Old, heavy-duty algorithmic solutions simply do not work! And, oftentimes, Big-O is not the "best" solution -- one needs to be "closer" to reality. The main goal of A_SWAN'2005 is to bring together in a setting conducive of cross-fertilization a number of researchers and contributions that demonstrate the use of the new algorithmics in the context of the following set of representative topics: intrusion detection consensus in sensor networks unauthorized traversal and monitoring in sensor networks graph modeling power management unit disks generalized coloring algorithms content delivery networks optimal pricing strategies algorithmic mechanism design range assignment station/sensor placement resource management bandwidth allocation resource discovery handover (handoff) routing location tracking user paging scheduling data access data organization security and fault tolerance PUBLICITY CHAIR: Alessandro Mei, University of Rome "La sapienza", Italy TECHNICAL PROGRAM COMMITTEE (preliminary) Giuseppe Anastasi, University of Pisa, Italy Amotz Bar-Noy, Brooklyn College - CUNY, USA Stefano Basagni, Northeastern University Boston, USA Maurizio Bonuccelli, University of Pisa, Italy Andrea Clementi, University of Roma Tor Vergata, Italy Reuven Cohen, Technion University, Haifa, Israel Sajal K. Das, University of Texas at Arlington, USA Mohamed Eltoweissy, Virginia Tech, USA, Leszek Gasieniec, University of Liverpool, United Kingdom Magnus Halldorsson, University of Iceland, Iceland Kamal Jain, Georgia Institute of Technology, USA Guy Kortsarz, Rutgers University, USA Evangelos Kranakis, Carleton University, Ottawa, Canada Robert Leese, Oxford University, United Kingdom Errol Lloyd, Univerity of Delaware, USA Viktor Prasanna, University of Southern California, USA Romeo Rizzi, University of Trento, Italy Anil Shende, Roanoke College, VA, USA Ivan Stojmenovic, University of Ottawa, Canada Peter Widmayer, ETH Centrum, Switzerland Jingyuan Zhang, University of Alabama, USA SUBMISSION GUIDELINES Prospective authors are encouraged to submit an electronic version (Postscript or PDF) of the paper by e-mail to: pinotti@unipg.it (with subject: SUBMISSION ASWAN05) Submissions must be of at most 12 pages plus, optionally, a clearly marked appendix to be read at the discretion of the program committee. Simultaneous submission to other conferences with published proceedings is disallowed. SCHEDULE Manuscript due: April 10, 2005 Acceptance Notification: May 15, 2005 Final Manuscript Due: May 31, 2005 Workshop date: July 17, 2005 -- Mip4 mailing list: Mip4@ietf.org Web interface: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip4 Charter page: http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/mip4-charter.html Supplemental site: http://www.mip4.org/ From mip4-bounces@ietf.org Mon Apr 4 12:25:33 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA24393 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 12:25:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DIUWL-0005f6-Ou for mip4-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 04 Apr 2005 12:33:50 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DIUNE-0004Cw-FD; Mon, 04 Apr 2005 12:24:24 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DIUND-0004Ck-9O for mip4@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 04 Apr 2005 12:24:23 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA24164 for ; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 12:24:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pne-smtpout1-sn1.fre.skanova.net ([81.228.11.98]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DIUV7-0005W8-UT for mip4@ietf.org; Mon, 04 Apr 2005 12:32:38 -0400 Received: from shiraz.levkowetz.com (213.64.174.195) by pne-smtpout1-sn1.fre.skanova.net (7.1.026.7) id 41E3200D00B0F09D; Mon, 4 Apr 2005 18:24:06 +0200 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by shiraz.levkowetz.com with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DIUMv-0005Ys-QK; Mon, 04 Apr 2005 18:24:06 +0200 Message-ID: <42516A25.6080405@levkowetz.com> Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2005 18:24:05 +0200 From: Henrik Levkowetz User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Macintosh/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mobile IPv4 Mailing List , Pete McCann X-Enigmail-Version: 0.89.5.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 127.0.0.1 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on shiraz.levkowetz.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Spam-Score: 2.0 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 94ddbad0060c343c23e74ba9bbebbccf Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Mip4] IETF-62 Draft Minutes. X-BeenThere: mip4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobility for IPv4 List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip4-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip4-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 2.0 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 2af167865907217f0b49c659e31a77f7 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Below you'll find draft minutes from the Minneapolis MIP4 meeting. Please read and comment. Deadline for turning these in is this Friday, so we won't be able to act on comments received after that. A big thank to the three minute takers, Jayshree Bharatia, Espen Klovning and Will Ivancic - I don't think we've had such detailed and complete minutes ever before! A html version of the minutes are available here: http://mip4.org/ietf62/minutes.html Henrik ======================================================================== MIP4 WG Minutes (Thursday, March 10, 2005, 1645-1745) ======================================================================== 1. Preliminaries: Chairs ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Slides: http://tools.ietf.org/wg/mip4/ietf/62/mip4-agenda.ppt Minute takers: Espen Klovning, Jayshree Bharatia, Will Ivancic Henrik: Pete McCann could not be here so I am on my own here. Henrik had not received slides from Vikas Goel and therefore dropped his presentation of draft-goel-mip4-encapext-00.txt Vikas asked whether he could to add the presentation to the agenda. Henrik allocated a slot at the end of the agenda. 2. Document Status: Chairs ------------------------------------------------------------------------ +---------------------------------------------+-----------------------+ |draft |status | +=============================================+=======================+ |draft-ietf-mip4-dynamic-assignment-03 |Waiting for AD Writeup | +---------------------------------------------+-----------------------+ |draft-ietf-mip4-faerr-00 |Waiting for Chair | | |Writeup | +---------------------------------------------+-----------------------+ |draft-ietf-mip4-reg-tunnel-00 |AD Evaluation | +---------------------------------------------+-----------------------+ |draft-ietf-mip4-rfc2006bis-01 |Reviewer needed for | | |MIP-centric review of | | Comments: | | | | | | Henrik: This is the third WG meeting where I| | | have asked for volunteers to do MIB review, | | | but we still don't have anyone. | | | | | | Kent: We should try to leverage the MIPv6 | | | MIB resource. The MIPv6 MIB draft went | | | through quickly | | +---------------------------------------------+-----------------------+ |draft-ietf-mip4-rfc3012bis-03 |Waiting for Chair | +---------------------------------------------+-----------------------+ |draft-ietf-mip4-rfc3344bis-01 |One remaining issue | | | | | Comments: | | | | | | Henrik: There is one remaining issue with | | | 3344. It is the same as last time. The | | | discussion is going on but no consensus yet.| | | I hope to manage that now. | | +---------------------------------------------+-----------------------+ |draft-ietf-mip4-aaa-key-06 |Published as RFC 3957 | +---------------------------------------------+-----------------------+ |draft-ietf-mip4-experimental-messages-02 |RFC Ed Queue::Awaiting | | |processing and publ. | +---------------------------------------------+-----------------------+ |draft-ietf-mip4-vpn-problem-statement-03 |RFC Ed Queue::Awaiting | | |processing and publ. | +---------------------------------------------+-----------------------+ |draft-ietf-mip4-lowlatency-handoffs-v4 |AD Evaluation::AD | | |Followup | | Comments: | | | | | | Thomas Narten: There is a nominal dependence| | | on the regional tunneling draft that is | | | holding up the low latency draft. | | +---------------------------------------------+-----------------------+ |draft-ietf-mip4-vpn-problem-solution-01 |Review needed | | | | | Comments: | | | | | | Henrik: I have one reviewer for the VPN | | | solution draft lined up but more are needed.| | +---------------------------------------------+-----------------------+ 3. Resolving one outstanding issues for 3344bis: Charlie P. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ draft-ietf-mip4-rfc3344bis-01 Slides: http://tools.ietf.org/wg/mip4/ietf/62/fa-ha-sa-selectors.pdf This issue revolves around what selectors (e.g., Reg. Request CoA and HA address) should be used to select the SA (security association) used to calculate FA-HA Authorization-enabling extensions. Issue: Selector for the HA-FA Security Association. * When the MN sends a de-register request to a foreign agent with the intention of de-registering its earlier binding it had with a different foreign agent, the behavior of FA in RFC3344 is to reject such request with invalid care-of address error. However, the HA considerations allows such requests. The scenario is not handled consistently at both HA and FA ends. * Also, if the foreign agent is allowed to forward such requests, there is no explanation as how the home agent should locate the security associations for that FA and validate the FHAE. * This issue was also discussed in IETF-61. The following are the selector fields: - Source IP address - Destination IP address - Care-of address - Home address - Lifetime field (or the bit which says that it is zero or not) - The D bit (to determine whether coa is co-located). It was mentioned that CoA and HoA usage may be problematic because there will not be correct security association in those cases. Comments: Kent Leung: Agreement was that we are not considering NAT scenario (out of scope for RFC3344). Also, SA (indexed by the source IP address) would solve the problem. This source address will always be known by the HA. Henrik: Referred to as a,d here. Kent: Agreed to go with that approach. Just gone use IP src to index cover all the case. It been awhile. Henrik: It would be nice to find a solution for the non-NAT case. We will have to revisit NAT case too. We must be aware of that now. Permitting COA MN to send directly. Kent: It was brought up but it is breaking some processing rules. It is the R bit case right. We will not be able to go over this now. We should start from our email discussion. Henrik: We have no known starting point. Kent: We are probably too tired to discuss it Charlie: I did run out of steam.. We were at equilibrium ... Kent: I do not mind any good approach. We have not found it yet. Henrik: What is your view of the status? Kent: What I stated earlier was the status. Henrik: We need a known starting point. I had hoped we had come to a point where we could agree. Kent: I can summarize how far we have come. Resolution: Action item: Kent to summarize how far this communication has gone. The working group will consider this as a new starting point. Note that there was no resolution offered on this issue. There will be further discussion on the mailing list. 4. Generic Strings: Alpesh Patel ------------------------------------------------------------------------ draft-sastry-mip4-string-extension-00.txt Slides: http://tools.ietf.org/wg/mip4/ietf/62/genericstring.pdf This document specifies an extension to carry a text string in the Registration Reply messaged, with the purpose of having the text string displayed on the Mobile Node user interface. Alpesh presented the draft that stems from customer requests during deployment. - This draft defines a new skippable extension for use by HA and FA in registration request. Note that both FA and HA can add this extension in to the same registration request. - A new subtype defines two values indicating who adds this extension. If this extension is added by the HA, it must be present before MHAE. - In case of authentication failure, error is returned. The text field of the extension can be displayed on MN's user interface. The MN may throttle the message. Comments: Espen Klovning: The mechanism is OK but I do not like the reference to user interface. The MN might not have a user interface. It could write the string to a log. Tone down the reference to user display. It is up to the MN to decide what to to with the information. Avi Lior: I like the draft. In case of AAA, user doesn't know the detail. Although it is not clear how to indicate whether the string should go to the user or not. Kent: I agree with Espen. It is up to the MN to decide what to to with the strings. Xxx: This can be appended by both nodes in the same message. If FA adds this extension, it can't be authenticated (which is optional). Henrik: This is within the scope of this WG but will require a charter update. Resolution: Enough interest (humming) to make this a WG item Action: Charter update will be proposed by the chair for this work. 5. Host Configuration Extensions: Kent Leung ------------------------------------------------------------------------ draft-leung-mip4-host-config-vse-00.txt Slides: http://tools.ietf.org/wg/mip4/ietf/62/hostconfig.pdf This document describes the extensions used to provide the base host configuration in the Registration Request and Reply messages. Kent presented: - The MN needs additional configuration to setup MIP interface. This is from the deployment perspective. Current host configuration is insufficient. - Defines NVSEs in the registration Request used by HA to include DHCP in response. Host configuration types includes HA prefix, DHCP server, DNS server, DHCP client ID, default Gateway, DNS suffix and config URL. - The informational status is asked at this time by the author. Again, this will go as vendor specific option. Action: It wasn't very clear whether WG should take this document as a WG item or not. Although 6 people volunteered to support this draft if it is taken as a WG item. 6. Questions about MIPv4/MIPv6 - IPv4/IPv6 transitions: Chairs ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Henrik: There are currently 4 proposed solution drafts for MIPv4/MIPv6 transition. One for MIPv4 and three for MIPv6. The drafts describes different alternatives. It is not clear where this work belongs to at this time. Non of the solution are complete. I think we should start by producing a problem statement. Show of hands indicated little interest in the WG for taking the transition issue up as a WG item. Comments: Thomas: Surprised over the lack WG interest. Charter WG to have clear idea. Current deployments of MIP4 that wants to go to IPv6. Vijay: There are two distinct scenarios. One for MIPv6. How to reach IPv6 over IPv4 network. One for MIPv4 on how to move into IPv6 network. Kent: Too many access network with IPv4. That is the reason for the interest in MIPv6. Thomas : Good. It fits better in the MIPv6 group. Action: None 6A. Questions about regional registration and AD feedback: Chairs ------------------------------------------------------------------------ draft-ietf-mip4-reg-tunnel-00.txt Henrik: There is a small issue on how to handle AD review feedback. Charlie? Charlie: We will be able to answer all issue that has been raised by the ADs. We should have a new draft shortly after the beginning of June. 7. RADIUS attributes for Mobile-IP v4: Madjid Nakhjiri ------------------------------------------------------------------------ draft-nakhjiri-radius-mip4-00.txt Slides: http://tools.ietf.org/wg/mip4/ietf/62/radius_mip4.pdf This document defines the RADIUS attributes that provide support for Mobile IPv4 operations such as key management and authentication services during a mobile node's registration process. Madjid presented the draft. - This draft is relevant to MIP-AAA interaction. A receipt of the registration request results in to the authentication and creation of new security association. There is no document detailing this information from the AAA perspective. All current documents are written w.r.t. MIP. Two cases are considered, co-located and FA-based CoA. - Can't do Radius extension unless this WG endorse this work. Hence Liaison is needed from MIP4 to RADEXT WG. - Want to make sure that MIP functionality is verified by this working group. Comments: Alpesh: We have due to deployment requirements made vendor specific solutions that do the same. There is interest for this. Kent: There is definitely deployment interest. Avi Lior: We have to review the semantics of the attributes. View whether RADIUS protocol is violated. Perhaps WG item. Primarily, ask Radius to review it. Henrik: When I worked on MIPv4 deployments, we did our own. Having a standardised set will be good. This will be a WG item for RADEXT. They need to know how we evaluate this, though. Thomas: It defines new attributes. Then the right home is the RADEXT WG. It does not matter. Both WG must be happy with the solution. Alpesh: We need to think about 3012bis in this. Only MD5 is supported in 3012bis. RADIUS have limitations. There are no mechanisms to use HMAC or SHA1, and MD5 is being deprecated in RADIUS group. Charlie: This should be standardized in RADEXT working group similar to what has been done for DIAMETER. Kent: Agree with Avi. We have to look at the semantics of fields. It should be decided by MIP experts. After consensus we should go through RADEXT WG to get approval. Action: Humming indicated that the WG should invest energy in this document. Although the decision on where it will land as a wg item is still open. 8. Known bugs in 3519: Sri Gundavelli ------------------------------------------------------------------------ RFC 3519 Slides: http://tools.ietf.org/wg/mip4/ietf/62/3519-bis.pdf Experience with RFC 3519 and discussions around rfc3344bis has brought to light some weaknesses of RFC 3519 which may warrant starting work on a revision of this. This presentation will give a summary of these issues. Sri presented a few issues/problems with RFC3519 that have been detected during implementation and deployment. - The motivation for this draft is to present different issues which are related to RFC3519 and found from the implementation. - Issue 44: According to RFC3344, the FA is required to send a registration request with the source address of the outgoing interface. This conflicts with RFC3519 where the FA is required to set the source address of the registration request to its CoA. - Issue 45: HA dependency on the source address for the NAT detection logic. - Issue 3(?): Keep-alive message. This has no protection. This is causes inconvenience. - Issue 4: Usage of ICMP echo packet format for the keep-alive message and the associated issue. Protocol package, the context should be maintained (either MIP subsystem or something else) - Issue 5: Overloading the MIP port 434 for control and data messages and the implementation issues. Need to identify whether this is a data or control packet. This is just a UDP package and goes all the way to the application layer. - Issue 6: FA doesn't have any role for request but the reply is not the same. It may be of different version which may cause problem. Comments: Henrik: I am fine with all the issues except the one where the port number can be done in kernel. No bis issue. Another protocol. Alpesh: The problem with 3519 is that the same channel is used for both signaling and data Espen: This is an router/hardware performance issue that is less relevant for client implementations. Action: Suggest to make 3519bis an WG item. Henrik will serve as editor and got commitment from 5-6 people to contribute to this draft. 9. Encapsulation extension: Vikas Goel ------------------------------------------------------------------------ draft-goel-mip4-encapext-00.txt This drafts describes an extension which allows the Home Agent to specify, in the Registration Reply, the kind of encapsulation types it supports. Vikas presented a draft to address a scalability issue with tunnel endpoints in the where the HA should force the MN to use a specific tunnel encapsulation. Comments: Espen: This will not work as long as the M and G bits are not mandatory in RFC 3344. Vikas: You have to set up three tunnels for each HA. It will not scale. Kent: This is not necessary. The RRQ can not indicate more than one tunneling method. Espen: Yes, you can. Sri: What is the original intent? There is no way for the HA to know what to use. Deployment scenario should be well understood. Xxx: HA just reacts on what is selected by the MN. But if it is different from what HA wants, there may be a need of supporting two encapsulation choices. Henrik: Don't see a clear need. This makes sense only if HA supports either G or M. It doesn't make sense if HA supports both. Generally clients are not deployed which are incompatible with HA. This doesn't seem like a real issue since num of choices are few only. Henrik: Encapsulation offer goes in a registration request and the selection of the encapsulation is received in the registration reply. Hence there may not be any need of having multiple tunnels. Kent: The proposed solution may not work properly. Henrik: RFC 3344 is not very clear but the general trend is that HA selects the capability sent in the registration request (appendix of RFC3344 indicates this way). Xxx: Vendor specific extension may be the solution. Henrik: I read the specification before the meeting and it says you can. It is not very clear in the specification, though, so it seems that this is an new issue for 3344bis Action: It was determined that RFC3344 needs to have further clarity on encapsulation information negotiation. And, hence, there may not be any problem which need to be solved by this draft. *Henrik: We are done.* -- Mip4 mailing list: Mip4@ietf.org Web interface: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip4 Charter page: http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/mip4-charter.html Supplemental site: http://www.mip4.org/ From mip4-bounces@ietf.org Tue Apr 5 06:43:07 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA04788 for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 06:43:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DIleg-0003Ra-PO for mip4-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 05 Apr 2005 06:51:35 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DIlVM-0004X4-IT; Tue, 05 Apr 2005 06:41:56 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DIjOD-00062L-Fn for mip4@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 05 Apr 2005 04:26:27 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA22940 for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 04:26:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.di.uniroma1.it ([151.100.17.19]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DIjWI-0006xr-AA for mip4@ietf.org; Tue, 05 Apr 2005 04:34:48 -0400 Received: from [151.100.17.131] (mei.dsi.uniroma1.it [151.100.17.131]) by mail.di.uniroma1.it (Postfix) with ESMTP id 103DF1BD65F for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 09:13:14 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <42524BDD.2050509@dsi.uniroma1.it> Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2005 10:27:09 +0200 From: Alessandro Mei User-Agent: Debian Thunderbird 1.0 (X11/20050116) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: mip4@ietf.org X-Enigmail-Version: 0.90.0.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 3a4bc66230659131057bb68ed51598f8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 05 Apr 2005 06:41:55 -0400 Subject: [Mip4] Call For Papers A_SWAN 2005 X-BeenThere: mip4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobility for IPv4 List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip4-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip4-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 2086112c730e13d5955355df27e3074b Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ===================================================== Call for Papers A_SWAN 2005 AlgorithmS for Wireless And mobile Networks Personal, Sensor, Ad-hoc, Cellular Held in conjunction with Mobiquitous San Diego 2005 July 17, 2005 GENERAL CHAIR: Alan A. Bertossi, University of Bologna, Italy PROGRAM CO-CHAIRS: Stephan Olariu, Old Dominion University, U.S.A. Cristina M. Pinotti, University of Perugia, Italy SCOPE: The rapid and continued growth of wireless technology made information accessible anywhere and at any time. At the same time the falling cost of both communication and mobile computing devices has created a great demand for untethered communication and computing. In addition to wireless networks that rely on pre-existing infrastructure, where wireless communications take place only between the end-nodes and the access points, rapidly-deployable self-organizing mobile networks including ad hoc wireless networks and sensor networks are being developed and deployed. To cope with the rapidly increasing number of users and with the increasing demand for mobile services, it is becoming imperious to optimize the management and use of the limited resources inherent to wireless environments. In turn, these specific demands require new "algorithmic" approaches specifically designed to cope with the highly dynamic underlying infrastructure and with the scarce resources available. Old, heavy-duty algorithmic solutions simply do not work! And, oftentimes, Big-O is not the "best" solution -- one needs to be "closer" to reality. The main goal of A_SWAN'2005 is to bring together in a setting conducive of cross-fertilization a number of researchers and contributions that demonstrate the use of the new algorithmics in the context of the following set of representative topics: o intrusion detection o consensus in sensor networks o unauthorized traversal and monitoring in sensor networks o power management o topology control o routing o content delivery networks o optimal pricing strategies o algorithmic mechanism design o range assignment o station/sensor placement o resource management o bandwidth allocation o resource discovery o handoff management o location tracking and paging o scheduling o data organization and access o security and fault tolerance PUBLICITY CHAIR: Alessandro Mei, University of Rome "La sapienza", Italy TECHNICAL PROGRAM COMMITTEE Giuseppe Anastasi, University of Pisa, Italy Amotz Bar-Noy, Brooklyn College - CUNY, USA Stefano Basagni, Northeastern University Boston, USA Maurizio Bonuccelli, University of Pisa, Italy Andrea Clementi, University of Roma Tor Vergata, Italy Reuven Cohen, Technion University, Haifa, Israel Sajal K. Das, University of Texas at Arlington, USA Mohamed Eltoweissy, Virginia Tech, USA, Leszek Gasieniec, University of Liverpool, United Kingdom Magnus Halldorsson, University of Iceland, Iceland Kamal Jain, Georgia Institute of Technology, USA Guy Kortsarz, Rutgers University, USA Evangelos Kranakis, Carleton University, Ottawa, Canada Robert Leese, Oxford University, United Kingdom Errol Lloyd, Univerity of Delaware, USA Viktor Prasanna, University of Southern California, USA Romeo Rizzi, University of Trento, Italy Anil Shende, Roanoke College, VA, USA Ivan Stojmenovic, University of Ottawa, Canada Peter Widmayer, ETH Centrum, Switzerland Jingyuan Zhang, University of Alabama, USA SUBMISSION GUIDELINES Prospective authors are encouraged to submit an electronic version (Postscript or PDF) of the paper by e-mail to: pinotti@unipg.it (with subject: SUBMISSION ASWAN05) Submissions must be of at most 12 pages plus, optionally, a clearly marked appendix to be read at the discretion of the program committee. Simultaneous submission to other conferences with published proceedings is disallowed. SCHEDULE Manuscript due: April 10, 2005 Acceptance Notification: May 15, 2005 Final Manuscript Due: May 31, 2005 Workshop date: July 17, 2005 -- Mip4 mailing list: Mip4@ietf.org Web interface: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip4 Charter page: http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/mip4-charter.html Supplemental site: http://www.mip4.org/ From mip4-bounces@ietf.org Tue Apr 5 14:28:51 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA16127 for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 14:28:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DIsvQ-0003mf-V6 for mip4-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 05 Apr 2005 14:37:21 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DIsmk-0004B3-Se; Tue, 05 Apr 2005 14:28:22 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DIsmh-0004Ay-IV for mip4@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 05 Apr 2005 14:28:21 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA16056 for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 14:28:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from motgate.mot.com ([129.188.136.100]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DIsus-0003lg-9D for mip4@ietf.org; Tue, 05 Apr 2005 14:36:47 -0400 Received: from az33exr01.mot.com (az33exr01.mot.com [10.64.251.231]) by motgate.mot.com (Motorola/Motgate) with ESMTP id j35ISBQ0003727 for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 11:28:12 -0700 (MST) Received: from il27exm03.cig.mot.com (il27exm03.cig.mot.com [10.17.193.4]) by az33exr01.mot.com (8.13.1/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j35ITXpl002028 for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 13:29:33 -0500 (CDT) Received: by il27exm03.cig.mot.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id ; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 13:28:10 -0500 Message-ID: From: Nakhjiri Madjid-MNAKHJI1 To: "'Avi Lior'" , Kent Leung , "Chowdhury, Kuntal" Subject: RE: [Mip4] draft on RADIUS support for Mobile IP Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2005 13:28:06 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) X-Spam-Score: 2.0 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 0bb031f3a6fb29f760794ac9bf1997ae Cc: Nakhjiri Madjid-MNAKHJI1 , Mobile IPv4 Mailing List X-BeenThere: mip4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobility for IPv4 List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1278162311==" Sender: mip4-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip4-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 2.0 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 850245b51c39701e2700a112f3032caa This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --===============1278162311== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C53A0D.35B30228" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C53A0D.35B30228 Content-Type: text/plain Ok, As we had predicted, the inter-working needs to work on its identity management issues :-) We see that many of the issues revolve around whether we should use HoA or NAI for MN and IP versus NAI for mobility agents. So lets get organized here. Case 1: CcoA, there is no FA in this case. HA acts as a NAS. RRQ goes from MN to HA and becomes a RADIUS Access Request to RADIUS server. Option 1: MN has a HoA address and is AAA-routable. MN knows its HA. (I guess we assume routability assertion is made by HA, acting as a NAS) MN includes its HoA in the RRQ. There is no MN-NAI according to RFC 3344. If MN has HA IP address, it includes it in the RRQ, otherwise what value? HA inserts MN-HoA in user-name Attr. HA inserts own IP address in NAS-IP. Optionally, HA inserts own NAI in MIP-HA-NAI to help routing. If no HA address was included in RRQ, HA sets the proper bits in feature vector to indicate the need for HA allocation. Option 2: MN does not have an HoA, but has an HA. MN includes an NAI in RRQ. There is no MN HoA in RRQ. If MN has HA IP address, it includes it, otherwise what value? HA inserts MN-NAI in user name attr. HA inserts own IP address in NAS-IP. Optionally, HA inserts own NAI in MIP-HA-NAI and proper bits in feature vector if HA allocation is needed. Option 3: MN does not have a routable HoA (MN probably does not know this). MN includes its HoA in the RRQ, and does not include NAI according to RFC 3344. Well now what? HA cannot build a routable RADIUS Access request, since neither HoA nor NAI is present? Should the HA build an NAI for the MN? Case 2: FA based CoA. I suggest we agree on a solution for case 1 first before we go on to the FA based CoAs later. Comments, opinions, answers are welcome, Madjid ------_=_NextPart_001_01C53A0D.35B30228 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 PCFET0NUWVBFIEhUTUwgUFVCTElDICItLy9XM0MvL0RURCBIVE1MIDQuMCBUcmFuc2l0aW9uYWwv L0VOIj4NCjxodG1sPg0KDQo8aGVhZD4NCjxNRVRBIEhUVFAtRVFVSVY9IkNvbnRlbnQtVHlwZSIg Q09OVEVOVD0idGV4dC9odG1sOyBjaGFyc2V0PXVzLWFzY2lpIj4NCg0KDQo8bWV0YSBuYW1lPUdl bmVyYXRvciBjb250ZW50PSJNaWNyb3NvZnQgV29yZCAxMCAoZmlsdGVyZWQpIj4NCjx0aXRsZT5N ZXNzYWdlPC90aXRsZT4NCg0KPHN0eWxlPg0KPCEtLQ0KIC8qIEZvbnQgRGVmaW5pdGlvbnMgKi8N CiBAZm9udC1mYWNlDQoJe2ZvbnQtZmFtaWx5OldpbmdkaW5nczsNCglwYW5vc2UtMTo1IDAgMCAw IDAgMCAwIDAgMCAwO30NCiAvKiBTdHlsZSBEZWZpbml0aW9ucyAqLw0KIHAuTXNvTm9ybWFsLCBs aS5Nc29Ob3JtYWwsIGRpdi5Nc29Ob3JtYWwNCgl7bWFyZ2luOjBpbjsNCgltYXJnaW4tYm90dG9t Oi4wMDAxcHQ7DQoJZm9udC1zaXplOjEyLjBwdDsNCglmb250LWZhbWlseToiVGltZXMgTmV3IFJv bWFuIjt9DQphOmxpbmssIHNwYW4uTXNvSHlwZXJsaW5rDQoJe2NvbG9yOmJsdWU7DQoJdGV4dC1k ZWNvcmF0aW9uOnVuZGVybGluZTt9DQphOnZpc2l0ZWQsIHNwYW4uTXNvSHlwZXJsaW5rRm9sbG93 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(8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA25239 for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 18:20:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DIwXg-0000wh-Jm for mip4-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 05 Apr 2005 18:29:05 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DIwME-0006AG-7G; Tue, 05 Apr 2005 18:17:14 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DIwMC-0006A9-IG for mip4@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 05 Apr 2005 18:17:12 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA24762 for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 18:17:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from darkstar.iprg.nokia.com ([205.226.5.69]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DIwUP-0000pj-Hs for mip4@ietf.org; Tue, 05 Apr 2005 18:25:43 -0400 Received: (from root@localhost) by darkstar.iprg.nokia.com (8.11.0/8.11.0-DARKSTAR) id j35LkuS15242; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 14:46:56 -0700 X-mProtect: <200504052146> Nokia Silicon Valley Messaging Protection Received: from manisht.iprg.nokia.com (205.226.2.40, claiming to be "[205.226.2.40]") by darkstar.iprg.nokia.com smtpdGfKLo9; Mon, 04 Apr 2005 18:31:14 PDT Message-ID: <4251E378.1070409@iprg.nokia.com> Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2005 18:01:44 -0700 From: Vijay Devarapalli User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040928 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Henrik Levkowetz Subject: Re: [Mip4] IETF-62 Draft Minutes. References: <42516A25.6080405@levkowetz.com> In-Reply-To: <42516A25.6080405@levkowetz.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 538aad3a3c4f01d8b6a6477ca4248793 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Pete McCann , Mobile IPv4 Mailing List X-BeenThere: mip4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobility for IPv4 List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip4-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip4-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0a7aa2e6e558383d84476dc338324fab Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hi Henrik, couple of comments. Henrik Levkowetz wrote: > 6. Questions about MIPv4/MIPv6 - IPv4/IPv6 transitions: Chairs > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Henrik: > > There are currently 4 proposed solution drafts for MIPv4/MIPv6 > transition. One for MIPv4 and three for MIPv6. The drafts > describes different alternatives. It is not clear where this work > belongs to at this time. Non of the solution are complete. I think > we should start by producing a problem statement. > > Show of hands indicated little interest in the WG for taking the > transition issue up as a WG item. > > Comments: > > Thomas: > > Surprised over the lack WG interest. Charter WG to have clear > idea. Current deployments of MIP4 that wants to go to IPv6. > > Vijay: > > There are two distinct scenarios. One for MIPv6. How to reach > IPv6 over IPv4 network. One for MIPv4 on how to move into IPv6 > network. what I said goes something like this. There are two distinct scenarios that folks are interested in. There are people who want to deploy MIPv6. If a MIPv6 MN ends up an IPv4 only access network, it needs to be able to reach the IPv6 network. And then there are people who have deployed MIPv4 currently. They would like to move to MIPv6. > Kent: > > Too many access network with IPv4. That is the reason for the > interest in MIPv6. > > Thomas : > > Good. It fits better in the MIPv6 group. Thomas said lot more. I dont remember now. I think he said the first scenario fits in the MIPv6 wg. Thomas? Vijay -- Mip4 mailing list: Mip4@ietf.org Web interface: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip4 Charter page: http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/mip4-charter.html Supplemental site: http://www.mip4.org/ From mip4-bounces@ietf.org Tue Apr 5 18:56:11 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA28013 for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 18:56:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DIx6D-00029S-KE for mip4-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 05 Apr 2005 19:04:45 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DIwtt-0006th-K4; Tue, 05 Apr 2005 18:52:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DIwts-0006tc-6T for mip4@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 05 Apr 2005 18:52:00 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA27807 for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 18:51:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pne-smtpout1-sn2.hy.skanova.net ([81.228.8.83]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DIx25-0001zq-OU for mip4@ietf.org; Tue, 05 Apr 2005 19:00:31 -0400 Received: from shiraz.levkowetz.com (213.64.174.195) by pne-smtpout1-sn2.hy.skanova.net (7.1.026.7) id 41E3216700A9B810; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 00:51:47 +0200 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by shiraz.levkowetz.com with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DIwte-0003Id-VL; Wed, 06 Apr 2005 00:51:47 +0200 Message-ID: <42531682.4060708@levkowetz.com> Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2005 00:51:46 +0200 From: Henrik Levkowetz User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Macintosh/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Vijay Devarapalli Subject: Re: [Mip4] IETF-62 Draft Minutes. References: <42516A25.6080405@levkowetz.com> <4251E378.1070409@iprg.nokia.com> In-Reply-To: <4251E378.1070409@iprg.nokia.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.89.5.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 127.0.0.1 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: henrik@levkowetz.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on shiraz.levkowetz.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: a7d6aff76b15f3f56fcb94490e1052e4 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Pete McCann , Mobile IPv4 Mailing List X-BeenThere: mip4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobility for IPv4 List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip4-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip4-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 769a46790fb42fbb0b0cc700c82f7081 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit on 2005-04-05 3:01 am Vijay Devarapalli said the following: > hi Henrik, [...] >> Vijay: >> >> There are two distinct scenarios. One for MIPv6. How to reach >> IPv6 over IPv4 network. One for MIPv4 on how to move into IPv6 >> network. > > what I said goes something like this. > > There are two distinct scenarios that folks are interested in. There > are people who want to deploy MIPv6. If a MIPv6 MN ends up an IPv4 > only access network, it needs to be able to reach the IPv6 network. > And then there are people who have deployed MIPv4 currently. They > would like to move to MIPv6. I prefer to summarise a bit, so the minutes don't get too long - would this represent your point fairly? : There are two distinct scenarios of interest, One for a MIPv6 node to reach the IPv6 network over IPv4, and the other for people who currently have MIPv4 deployed but would like to move to MIPv6. >> Kent: >> >> Too many access network with IPv4. That is the reason for the >> interest in MIPv6. >> >> Thomas : >> >> Good. It fits better in the MIPv6 group. > > Thomas said lot more. I dont remember now. I think he said the first > scenario fits in the MIPv6 wg. Thomas? Ok. I don't remember more details myself. Henrik -- Mip4 mailing list: Mip4@ietf.org Web interface: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip4 Charter page: http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/mip4-charter.html Supplemental site: http://www.mip4.org/ From mip4-bounces@ietf.org Tue Apr 5 20:10:16 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA03602 for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 20:10:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DIyFv-0004mF-0k for mip4-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 05 Apr 2005 20:18:51 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DIy1h-0000b4-Uv; Tue, 05 Apr 2005 20:04:09 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DIy1f-0000ZF-MI for mip4@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 05 Apr 2005 20:04:07 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA03060 for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 20:04:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from darkstar.iprg.nokia.com ([205.226.5.69]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DIy9t-0004X8-G0 for mip4@ietf.org; Tue, 05 Apr 2005 20:12:39 -0400 Received: (from root@localhost) by darkstar.iprg.nokia.com (8.11.0/8.11.0-DARKSTAR) id j35NYRO02239 for ; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 16:34:27 -0700 X-mProtect: <200504052334> Nokia Silicon Valley Messaging Protection Received: from hannu.iprg.nokia.com (205.226.2.79, claiming to be "[205.226.2.79]") by darkstar.iprg.nokia.com smtpdEe0bru; Tue, 05 Apr 2005 15:44:22 PDT Message-ID: <42530D91.7010801@iprg.nokia.com> Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2005 15:13:37 -0700 From: Vijay Devarapalli User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (X11/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: mip4@ietf.org Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Mip4] IETF-62 Draft Minutes.] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------000408000602000205020604" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: c3a18ef96977fc9bcc21a621cbf1174b X-BeenThere: mip4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobility for IPv4 List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip4-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip4-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8de5f93cb2b4e3bee75302e9eacc33db This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------000408000602000205020604 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit for some reason. this mail didnt make it. my apologies if you get multiple copies. --------------000408000602000205020604 Content-Type: message/rfc822; name="Re: [Mip4] IETF-62 Draft Minutes." Content-Disposition: inline; filename="Re: [Mip4] IETF-62 Draft Minutes." Message-ID: <4251E378.1070409@iprg.nokia.com> Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2005 18:01:44 -0700 From: Vijay Devarapalli User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040928 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Henrik Levkowetz CC: Mobile IPv4 Mailing List , Pete McCann Subject: Re: [Mip4] IETF-62 Draft Minutes. References: <42516A25.6080405@levkowetz.com> In-Reply-To: <42516A25.6080405@levkowetz.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hi Henrik, couple of comments. Henrik Levkowetz wrote: > 6. Questions about MIPv4/MIPv6 - IPv4/IPv6 transitions: Chairs > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Henrik: > > There are currently 4 proposed solution drafts for MIPv4/MIPv6 > transition. One for MIPv4 and three for MIPv6. The drafts > describes different alternatives. It is not clear where this work > belongs to at this time. Non of the solution are complete. I think > we should start by producing a problem statement. > > Show of hands indicated little interest in the WG for taking the > transition issue up as a WG item. > > Comments: > > Thomas: > > Surprised over the lack WG interest. Charter WG to have clear > idea. Current deployments of MIP4 that wants to go to IPv6. > > Vijay: > > There are two distinct scenarios. One for MIPv6. How to reach > IPv6 over IPv4 network. One for MIPv4 on how to move into IPv6 > network. what I said goes something like this. There are two distinct scenarios that folks are interested in. There are people who want to deploy MIPv6. If a MIPv6 MN ends up an IPv4 only access network, it needs to be able to reach the IPv6 network. And then there are people who have deployed MIPv4 currently. They would like to move to MIPv6. > Kent: > > Too many access network with IPv4. That is the reason for the > interest in MIPv6. > > Thomas : > > Good. It fits better in the MIPv6 group. Thomas said lot more. I dont remember now. I think he said the first scenario fits in the MIPv6 wg. Thomas? Vijay --------------000408000602000205020604 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -- Mip4 mailing list: Mip4@ietf.org Web interface: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip4 Charter page: http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/mip4-charter.html Supplemental site: http://www.mip4.org/ --------------000408000602000205020604-- From mip4-bounces@ietf.org Wed Apr 6 01:31:33 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA26426 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 01:31:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DJ3Gq-0006m2-Kq for mip4-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 06 Apr 2005 01:40:09 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DJ387-0004h2-E1; Wed, 06 Apr 2005 01:31:07 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DJ385-0004gl-Nq for mip4@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 06 Apr 2005 01:31:06 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA26403 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 01:31:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sj-iport-3-in.cisco.com ([171.71.176.72] helo=sj-iport-3.cisco.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DJ3GN-0006l9-CA for mip4@ietf.org; Wed, 06 Apr 2005 01:39:40 -0400 Received: from sj-core-2.cisco.com (171.71.177.254) by sj-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 05 Apr 2005 22:30:55 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: i="3.92,76,1112598000"; d="scan'208,217"; a="246180567:sNHT2186513724" Received: from mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com (IDENT:mirapoint@mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com [171.71.163.14]) by sj-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j365UqgE010913; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 22:30:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kleung-w2k01.cisco.com (rtp-vpn1-833.cisco.com [10.82.227.65]) by mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com (MOS 3.4.5-GR) with ESMTP id BDR64912; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 22:30:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20050405210146.0301cdc0@mira-sjcm-2.cisco.com> X-Sender: kleung@mira-sjcm-2.cisco.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2005 21:37:35 -0700 To: Nakhjiri Madjid-MNAKHJI1 From: Kent Leung Subject: RE: [Mip4] draft on RADIUS support for Mobile IP In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: 0.9 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9c7d7a899dc8f3389bf7ace6f0ad8e29 Cc: Nakhjiri Madjid-MNAKHJI1 , "Chowdhury, Kuntal" , Mobile IPv4 Mailing List , "'Avi Lior'" X-BeenThere: mip4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobility for IPv4 List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1716791461==" Sender: mip4-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip4-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.9 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 4166dd0e0c668adc975c3d3e0f1bce3b --===============1716791461== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_14899714==_.ALT" --=====================_14899714==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Hi Madjid. Comments below. At 01:28 PM 4/5/2005 -0500, Nakhjiri Madjid-MNAKHJI1 wrote: >Ok, As we had predicted, the inter-working needs to work on its identity >management issues J > >We see that many of the issues revolve around whether we should use HoA or >NAI for MN and IP versus NAI for mobility agents. MN identifier issue: In general, I believe deployments which don't use NAI for MNs are not concerned about AAA-routability. In this case, the AAA server is in the same administrative domain as the HA (or NAS). When NAI is used to identify the MNs, then AAA-routability is important to address. So I think we can simplify the scope by eliminating support for AAA-routability for non-NAI MNs, IMHO. FA/HA identifier issue: In general, allow support for either NAI or IP address. Currently only IP address is in use, but NAI is a good way to identify the FA/HA for the FA-HA Authentication Extension validation as the IP address is problematic in NAT traversal scenarios. Since this is interface between HA and AAA server, it should be safe to define both IP and NAI and let deployments decide which one is used, IMHO. > > >So lets get organized here. > > > >Case 1: CcoA, there is no FA in this case. HA acts as a NAS. > >RRQ goes from MN to HA and becomes a RADIUS Access Request to RADIUS server. > > Option 1: MN has a HoA address and is AAA-routable. MN knows its HA. > > (I guess we assume routability assertion is made by HA, acting as a NAS) > >MN includes its HoA in the RRQ. There is no MN-NAI according to RFC 3344. > >If MN has HA IP address, it includes it in the RRQ, otherwise what value? > >HA inserts MN-HoA in user-name Attr. > >HA inserts own IP address in NAS-IP. > >Optionally, HA inserts own NAI in MIP-HA-NAI to help routing. > >If no HA address was included in RRQ, HA sets the proper bits in feature >vector to indicate the need for HA allocation. See above. I don't see a need for AAA-routing in the case of MN identified by HoA (no NAI). Technically feasible, but not necessary. Also, it's highly unlikely for HoA to be set without the HA address known. So the HoA and HA should both be set in the RRQ. > Option 2: MN does not have an HoA, but has an HA. > > MN includes an NAI in RRQ. There is no MN HoA in RRQ. > > If MN has HA IP address, it includes it, otherwise what value? > > HA inserts MN-NAI in user name attr. > > HA inserts own IP address in NAS-IP. > > Optionally, HA inserts own NAI in MIP-HA-NAI and proper bits > in feature vector if HA allocation is needed. In this case, the HA may be set to all 1s or 0s for dynamic HA assignment. > Option 3: MN does not have a routable HoA (MN probably does not know > this). > > MN includes its HoA in the RRQ, and does not include NAI > according to RFC 3344. > > Well now what? HA cannot build a routable RADIUS Access > request, since neither HoA nor NAI is present? > > Should the HA build an NAI for the MN? > I would treat this case same as #1. The MN is identified by its HoA. HA inserts MN-HoA in user-name Attr. HA inserts own IP address in NAS-IP. At this point, I expect that deployments will all be using NAI to identify the MN. NAI can support static IP address or dynamic address allocation for the MN, as well as dynamic HA assignment. Also, NAI allows integration with AAA for authentication. If we keep the HoA based MN support only in non-AAA-routable mode, I don't see much harm and this would benefit from some simplification. :) Of course, if anyone out there who is deploying MIPv4 and wants AAA-routability for HoA based MN, I'm willing to listen to the reasons. Kent > > >Case 2: FA based CoA. > >I suggest we agree on a solution for case 1 first before we go on to the >FA based CoAs later. > > > >Comments, opinions, answers are welcome, > > > >Madjid > >-- >Mip4 mailing list: Mip4@ietf.org > Web interface: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip4 > Charter page: http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/mip4-charter.html >Supplemental site: http://www.mip4.org/ -- | | Kent Leung :|: :|: IP Mobility Development :|||: :|||: Internet Technologies Division :|||||||: :|||||||: Voice: 408.526.5030 .:|||||||||:.:|||||||||:. Fax: 408.525.1653 c i s c o S y s t e m s Email: kleung@cisco.com --=====================_14899714==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Hi Madjid.  Comments below.

At 01:28 PM 4/5/2005 -0500, Nakhjiri Madjid-MNAKHJI1 wrote:

Ok, As we had predicted, the inter-working needs to work on its identity management issues J

We see that many of the issues revolve around whether we should use HoA or NAI for MN and IP versus NAI for mobility agents.

MN identifier issue:

In general, I believe deployments which don't use NAI for MNs are not
concerned about AAA-routability.  In this case, the AAA server is in the
same administrative domain as the HA (or NAS).

When NAI is used to identify the MNs, then AAA-routability is important
to address.

So I think we can simplify the scope by eliminating support for AAA-routability
for non-NAI MNs, IMHO.

FA/HA identifier issue:

In general, allow support for either NAI or IP address.  Currently only IP
address is in use, but NAI is a good way to identify the FA/HA for the
FA-HA Authentication Extension validation as the IP address is
problematic in NAT traversal scenarios.  Since this is interface between
HA and AAA server, it should be safe to define both IP and NAI and
let deployments decide which one is used, IMHO.



 

So lets get organized here.

 

Case 1: CcoA, there is no FA in this case. HA acts as a NAS.

RRQ goes from MN to HA and becomes a RADIUS Access Request to RADIUS server.

     Option 1: MN has a HoA address and is AAA-routable. MN knows its HA.

     (I guess we assume routability assertion is made by HA, acting as a NAS)

MN includes its HoA in the RRQ. There is no MN-NAI according to RFC 3344.

If MN has HA IP address, it includes it in the RRQ, otherwise what value?

HA inserts MN-HoA in user-name Attr.

HA inserts own IP address in NAS-IP.

Optionally, HA inserts own NAI in MIP-HA-NAI to help routing.

If no HA address was included in RRQ, HA sets the proper bits in feature vector to indicate the need for HA allocation.


See above.  I don't see a need for AAA-routing in the case of MN identified by
HoA (no NAI).  Technically feasible, but not necessary.

Also, it's highly unlikely for HoA to be set without the HA address known.  So the
HoA and HA should both be set in the RRQ. 




    Option 2: MN does not have an HoA, but has an HA.

            MN includes an NAI in RRQ. There is no MN HoA in RRQ.

            If MN has HA IP address, it includes it, otherwise what value?

            HA inserts MN-NAI in user name attr.

            HA inserts own IP address in NAS-IP.

            Optionally, HA inserts own NAI in MIP-HA-NAI and proper bits in feature vector if HA allocation is needed.


In this case, the HA may be set to all 1s or 0s for dynamic HA assignment.


   Option 3: MN does not have a routable HoA (MN probably does not know this).

            MN includes its HoA in the RRQ, and does not include NAI according to RFC 3344.

            Well now what? HA cannot build a routable RADIUS Access request, since neither HoA nor NAI is present?

            Should the HA build an NAI for the MN?



I would treat this case same as #1.  The MN is identified by its HoA.

        HA inserts MN-HoA in user-name Attr.

        HA inserts own IP address in NAS-IP.

At this point, I expect that deployments will all be using NAI to
identify the MN.  NAI can support static IP address or dynamic
address allocation for the MN, as well as dynamic HA assignment.
Also, NAI allows integration with AAA for authentication.  If we
keep the HoA based MN support only in non-AAA-routable mode,
I don't see much harm and this would benefit from some
simplification.  :)  Of course, if anyone out there who is deploying
MIPv4 and wants AAA-routability for HoA based MN, I'm willing
to listen to the reasons.

Kent

 

Case 2: FA based CoA.

I suggest we agree on a solution for case 1 first before we go on to the FA based CoAs later.

 

Comments, opinions, answers are welcome,

 

Madjid
 
--
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--
     |           |                   Kent Leung
    :|:         :|:                  IP Mobility Development
   :|||:       :|||:                 Internet Technologies Division
  :|||||||:   :|||||||:              Voice: 408.526.5030
.:|||||||||:.:|||||||||:.             Fax:   408.525.1653
 c i s c o S y s t e m s             Email: kleung@cisco.com --=====================_14899714==_.ALT-- --===============1716791461== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -- Mip4 mailing list: Mip4@ietf.org Web interface: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip4 Charter page: http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/mip4-charter.html Supplemental site: http://www.mip4.org/ --===============1716791461==-- From mip4-bounces@ietf.org Wed Apr 6 12:01:06 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA29429 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 12:01:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DJD6C-0004iu-5q for mip4-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 06 Apr 2005 12:09:48 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DJCqv-0003Em-6D; Wed, 06 Apr 2005 11:54:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DJCqt-0003Ed-Qh for mip4@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 06 Apr 2005 11:54:00 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA28813 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 11:53:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bws14.bridgewatersystems.com ([216.113.7.14]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DJCzG-0004YC-OE for mip4@ietf.org; Wed, 06 Apr 2005 12:02:39 -0400 Received: by exch01.bridgewatersys.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 11:53:49 -0400 Message-ID: From: Avi Lior To: "'Kent Leung'" , Nakhjiri Madjid-MNAKHJI1 Subject: RE: [Mip4] draft on RADIUS support for Mobile IP Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 11:53:42 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) X-Spam-Score: 0.9 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0aa23132abbc731e36938583486affe0 Cc: Nakhjiri Madjid-MNAKHJI1 , "Chowdhury, Kuntal" , Mobile IPv4 Mailing List , Avi Lior X-BeenThere: mip4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobility for IPv4 List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0047596595==" Sender: mip4-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip4-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.9 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d9da51c9fdb90403a7d571fc0f0dbf29 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --===============0047596595== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C53AC0.CE8F8050" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C53AC0.CE8F8050 Content-Type: text/plain Kent said: In general, I believe deployments which don't use NAI for MNs are not concerned about AAA-routability. In this case, the AAA server is in the same administrative domain as the HA (or NAS). This seems to make sense (at least) to me. If NAI is not used other thing such as HoA or even other identifiers such as device ids, can and are being used to route AAA. AAA allows for that and we should allow for that as well. I dont think though that we have to limit how routing is done. We just have to explain how MIPv4 attributes are mapped to RADIUS attributet. For people who understand MIP and RADIUS it is painfully obvious how you would deploy. So for the rest of us what would be usefull is informative text to explain things a bit. So here is my understanding: MIP RADIUS NAI if available will be placed in UserName HA IP if avialable will be place in HA-IP attribute HoA if available will be placed in HoA-IP attribute We can say: AAA can route over any of these attribute and other attributes as well. However, for general roaming NAI SHOULD be available and placed in the UserName. Device acting as NAS RADIUS HA or FA IP address -----> NAS-IP HA or FA FQDN if availabe -----> NAS-ID I am assuming HA or FA NAI is really the FQDN and that belongs in the NAS-ID attribute in RADIUS. -----Original Message----- From: Kent Leung [mailto:kleung@cisco.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 12:38 AM To: Nakhjiri Madjid-MNAKHJI1 Cc: 'Avi Lior'; Chowdhury, Kuntal; Nakhjiri Madjid-MNAKHJI1; Mobile IPv4 Mailing List Subject: RE: [Mip4] draft on RADIUS support for Mobile IP Hi Madjid. Comments below. At 01:28 PM 4/5/2005 -0500, Nakhjiri Madjid-MNAKHJI1 wrote: Ok, As we had predicted, the inter-working needs to work on its identity management issues :-) We see that many of the issues revolve around whether we should use HoA or NAI for MN and IP versus NAI for mobility agents. MN identifier issue: In general, I believe deployments which don't use NAI for MNs are not concerned about AAA-routability. In this case, the AAA server is in the same administrative domain as the HA (or NAS). When NAI is used to identify the MNs, then AAA-routability is important to address. So I think we can simplify the scope by eliminating support for AAA-routability for non-NAI MNs, IMHO. FA/HA identifier issue: In general, allow support for either NAI or IP address. Currently only IP address is in use, but NAI is a good way to identify the FA/HA for the FA-HA Authentication Extension validation as the IP address is problematic in NAT traversal scenarios. Since this is interface between HA and AAA server, it should be safe to define both IP and NAI and let deployments decide which one is used, IMHO. So lets get organized here. Case 1: CcoA, there is no FA in this case. HA acts as a NAS. RRQ goes from MN to HA and becomes a RADIUS Access Request to RADIUS server. Option 1: MN has a HoA address and is AAA-routable. MN knows its HA. (I guess we assume routability assertion is made by HA, acting as a NAS) MN includes its HoA in the RRQ. There is no MN-NAI according to RFC 3344. If MN has HA IP address, it includes it in the RRQ, otherwise what value? HA inserts MN-HoA in user-name Attr. HA inserts own IP address in NAS-IP. Optionally, HA inserts own NAI in MIP-HA-NAI to help routing. If no HA address was included in RRQ, HA sets the proper bits in feature vector to indicate the need for HA allocation. See above. I don't see a need for AAA-routing in the case of MN identified by HoA (no NAI). Technically feasible, but not necessary. Also, it's highly unlikely for HoA to be set without the HA address known. So the HoA and HA should both be set in the RRQ. Option 2: MN does not have an HoA, but has an HA. MN includes an NAI in RRQ. There is no MN HoA in RRQ. If MN has HA IP address, it includes it, otherwise what value? HA inserts MN-NAI in user name attr. HA inserts own IP address in NAS-IP. Optionally, HA inserts own NAI in MIP-HA-NAI and proper bits in feature vector if HA allocation is needed. In this case, the HA may be set to all 1s or 0s for dynamic HA assignment. Option 3: MN does not have a routable HoA (MN probably does not know this). MN includes its HoA in the RRQ, and does not include NAI according to RFC 3344. Well now what? HA cannot build a routable RADIUS Access request, since neither HoA nor NAI is present? Should the HA build an NAI for the MN? I would treat this case same as #1. The MN is identified by its HoA. HA inserts MN-HoA in user-name Attr. HA inserts own IP address in NAS-IP. At this point, I expect that deployments will all be using NAI to identify the MN. NAI can support static IP address or dynamic address allocation for the MN, as well as dynamic HA assignment. Also, NAI allows integration with AAA for authentication. If we keep the HoA based MN support only in non-AAA-routable mode, I don't see much harm and this would benefit from some simplification. :) Of course, if anyone out there who is deploying MIPv4 and wants AAA-routability for HoA based MN, I'm willing to listen to the reasons. Kent Case 2: FA based CoA. I suggest we agree on a solution for case 1 first before we go on to the FA based CoAs later. Comments, opinions, answers are welcome, Madjid -- Mip4 mailing list: Mip4@ietf.org Web interface: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip4 Charter page: http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/mip4-charter.html Supplemental site: http://www.mip4.org/ -- | | Kent Leung :|: :|: IP Mobility Development :|||: :|||: Internet Technologies Division :|||||||: :|||||||: Voice: 408.526.5030 .:|||||||||:.:|||||||||:. Fax: 408.525.1653 c i s c o S y s t e m s Email: kleung@cisco.com ------_=_NextPart_001_01C53AC0.CE8F8050 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message
 
Kent=20 said:
 
In general, I believe = deployments=20 which don't use NAI for MNs are not
concerned about = AAA-routability.  In=20 this case, the AAA server is in the
same administrative domain as = the HA (or=20 NAS).
This=20 seems to make sense (at least) to me.  If NAI is not used other = thing such=20 as HoA or even other identifiers such as device ids, can and are being = used to=20 route AAA.  AAA allows for that and we should allow for that as = well. =20 I dont think though that we have to limit how routing is done.  We = just=20 have to explain how MIPv4 attributes are mapped to RADIUS=20 attributet.  For people who understand MIP and RADIUS it is = painfully=20 obvious how you would deploy.  So for the rest of us what would be = usefull=20 is informative text to explain things a bit.
 
So=20 here is my understanding:
 
MIP          =             =             =          =20 RADIUS
 
NAI    if available will be placed=20 in   UserName
HA IP=20 if avialable will be place in    HA-IP=20 attribute
HoA   if available will be placed in  HoA-IP=20 attribute
 
We can=20 say:
AAA=20 can route over any of these attribute and other attributes as = well. =20 However, for general roaming NAI SHOULD be available and placed in the=20 UserName.
 
Device   acting as=20 NAS           &nb= sp;     RADIUS
 
HA or=20 FA  IP=20 address          -----= >    NAS-IP
HA or=20 FA FQDN if availabe   ----->   =20 NAS-ID
 
I am=20 assuming HA or FA NAI is really the FQDN and that belongs in the NAS-ID = attribute in RADIUS.
-----Original Message-----
From: = Kent Leung=20 [mailto:kleung@cisco.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 = 12:38=20 AM
To: Nakhjiri Madjid-MNAKHJI1
Cc: 'Avi Lior'; = Chowdhury,=20 Kuntal; Nakhjiri Madjid-MNAKHJI1; Mobile IPv4 Mailing = List
Subject:=20 RE: [Mip4] draft on RADIUS support for Mobile = IP

Hi=20 Madjid.  Comments below.

At 01:28 PM 4/5/2005 -0500, = Nakhjiri=20 Madjid-MNAKHJI1 wrote:

Ok, As=20 we had predicted, the inter-working needs to work on its identity = management=20 issues J

We see that=20 many of the issues revolve around whether we should use HoA or NAI = for MN=20 and IP versus NAI for mobility = agents.

MN=20 identifier issue:

In general, I believe deployments which = don't use NAI=20 for MNs are not
concerned about AAA-routability.  In this = case, the=20 AAA server is in the
same administrative domain as the HA (or=20 NAS).

When NAI is used to identify the MNs, then = AAA-routability is=20 important
to address.

So I think we can simplify the scope = by=20 eliminating support for AAA-routability
for non-NAI MNs, = IMHO.

FA/HA=20 identifier issue:

In general, allow support for either NAI or = IP=20 address.  Currently only IP
address is in use, but NAI is a = good way=20 to identify the FA/HA for the
FA-HA Authentication Extension = validation as=20 the IP address is
problematic in NAT traversal scenarios.  = Since this=20 is interface between
HA and AAA server, it should be safe to = define both IP=20 and NAI and
let deployments decide which one is used, = IMHO.





So lets get=20 organized here.

 

Case 1:=20 CcoA, there is no FA in this case. HA acts as a = NAS.

RRQ goes from MN to HA and = becomes a RADIUS=20 Access Request to RADIUS server.

     Option 1: MN has = a HoA address=20 and is AAA-routable. MN knows its HA.

     (I guess we = assume routability=20 assertion is made by HA, acting as a NAS)

MN includes its HoA in the RRQ. There is = no MN-NAI=20 according to RFC 3344.

If MN has HA IP address, it includes it in the RRQ, = otherwise what=20 value?

HA = inserts MN-HoA=20 in user-name Attr.

HA=20 inserts own IP address in NAS-IP.

Optionally, HA inserts own NAI in = MIP-HA-NAI to help=20 routing.

If no HA=20 address was included in RRQ, HA sets the proper bits in feature = vector to=20 indicate the need for HA allocation.


See = above.  I don't see a need for AAA-routing in the case of MN = identified=20 by
HoA (no NAI).  Technically feasible, but not=20 necessary.

Also, it's highly unlikely for HoA to be set = without the HA=20 address known.  So the
HoA and HA should both be set in the = RRQ. =20




    Option 2: MN does not have an HoA, but = has an=20 HA.

          &nb= sp; MN=20 includes an NAI in RRQ. There is no MN HoA in = RRQ.

          &nb= sp; If=20 MN has HA IP address, it includes it, otherwise what=20 value?

          &nb= sp; HA=20 inserts MN-NAI in user name attr.

          &nb= sp; HA=20 inserts own IP address in NAS-IP.

          &nb= sp;=20 Optionally, HA inserts own NAI in MIP-HA-NAI and proper bits in = feature=20 vector if HA allocation is = needed.


In this=20 case, the HA may be set to all 1s or 0s for dynamic HA = assignment.


   Option 3: MN does not have a routable HoA (MN = probably=20 does not know this).

          &nb= sp; MN=20 includes its HoA in the RRQ, and does not include NAI according to = RFC=20 3344.

          &nb= sp;=20 Well now what? HA cannot build a routable RADIUS Access request, = since=20 neither HoA nor NAI is present?

          &nb= sp;=20 Should the HA build an NAI for the MN?



I would treat = this case same=20 as #1.  The MN is identified by its HoA.

        = HA=20 inserts MN-HoA in user-name Attr.=20 =

        H= A=20 inserts own IP address in NAS-IP.

At this point, I = expect that=20 deployments will all be using NAI to
identify the MN.  NAI = can support=20 static IP address or dynamic
address allocation for the MN, as = well as=20 dynamic HA assignment.
Also, NAI allows integration with AAA for=20 authentication.  If we
keep the HoA based MN support only in=20 non-AAA-routable mode,
I don't see much harm and this would = benefit from=20 some
simplification.  :)  Of course, if anyone out there = who is=20 deploying
MIPv4 and wants AAA-routability for HoA based MN, I'm=20 willing
to listen to the reasons.

Kent



Case 2: FA based=20 CoA.

I = suggest we agree=20 on a solution for case 1 first before we go on to the FA based CoAs = later.

 

Comments,=20 opinions, answers are welcome,

 

Madjid=20
--
Mip4 mailing list:=20 Mip4@ietf.org
    Web interface: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip4
&n= bsp;   =20 Charter page: http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/mip4-charter.html
Supplemental=20 site: http://www.mip4.org/

--
    =20 |          =20 = |            = ;      =20 Kent Leung
    = :|:        =20 = :|:           &nb= sp;     =20 IP Mobility Development
   :|||:      =20 = :|||:           &= nbsp;    =20 Internet Technologies Division
  :|||||||:  =20 = :|||||||:          &nb= sp;  =20 Voice: 408.526.5030
=
.:|||||||||:.:|||||||||:.       =      =20 Fax:   408.525.1653
 c i s c o S y s t e m=20 = s            = ;=20 Email: kleung@cisco.com ------_=_NextPart_001_01C53AC0.CE8F8050-- --===============0047596595== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -- Mip4 mailing list: Mip4@ietf.org Web interface: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip4 Charter page: http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/mip4-charter.html Supplemental site: http://www.mip4.org/ --===============0047596595==-- From mip4-bounces@ietf.org Wed Apr 6 14:14:04 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA12171 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 14:14:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DJFAs-0008Pi-GR for mip4-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 06 Apr 2005 14:22:46 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DJF0f-0004SC-1k; Wed, 06 Apr 2005 14:12:13 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DJF0d-0004S5-I5 for mip4@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 06 Apr 2005 14:12:11 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA11987 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 14:12:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sj-iport-2-in.cisco.com ([171.71.176.71] helo=sj-iport-2.cisco.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DJF92-0008Lt-2l for mip4@ietf.org; Wed, 06 Apr 2005 14:20:52 -0400 Received: from sj-core-5.cisco.com (171.71.177.238) by sj-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 06 Apr 2005 11:12:02 -0700 Received: from mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com (IDENT:mirapoint@mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com [171.71.163.14]) by sj-core-5.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j36IBxZV021347; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 11:11:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kleung-w2k01.cisco.com (sjc-vpn5-280.cisco.com [10.21.89.24]) by mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com (MOS 3.4.5-GR) with ESMTP id BDS14053; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 11:11:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20050406102031.03421720@mira-sjcm-2.cisco.com> X-Sender: kleung@mira-sjcm-2.cisco.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2005 10:53:52 -0700 To: Avi Lior From: Kent Leung Subject: RE: [Mip4] draft on RADIUS support for Mobile IP In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: 0.9 (/) X-Scan-Signature: a743e34ab8eb08259de9a7307caed594 Cc: Nakhjiri Madjid-MNAKHJI1 , "Chowdhury, Kuntal" , Mobile IPv4 Mailing List , Avi Lior X-BeenThere: mip4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobility for IPv4 List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0805912473==" Sender: mip4-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip4-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 325b777e1a3a618c889460b612a65510 --===============0805912473== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_60552009==_.ALT" --=====================_60552009==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Hi Avi. At 11:53 AM 4/6/2005 -0400, Avi Lior wrote: > >Kent said: > >In general, I believe deployments which don't use NAI for MNs are not >concerned about AAA-routability. In this case, the AAA server is in the >same administrative domain as the HA (or NAS). >This seems to make sense (at least) to me. If NAI is not used other thing >such as HoA or even other identifiers such as device ids, can and are >being used to route AAA. AAA allows for that and we should allow for that >as well. I dont think though that we have to limit how routing is >done. We just have to explain how MIPv4 attributes are mapped to RADIUS >attributet. Agree. >For people who understand MIP and RADIUS it is painfully obvious how you >would deploy. So for the rest of us what would be usefull is informative >text to explain things a bit. > >So here is my understanding: > >MIP RADIUS > >NAI if available will be placed in UserName >HA IP if avialable will be place in HA-IP attribute OK. >HoA if available will be placed in HoA-IP attribute > HoA in the absence of NAI will be placed in the UserName, as the HoA is the MN identifier (username) to the RADIUS server in this case. I'm not sure if HoA should also be placed in the HoA-IP AVP as well? When NAI is present, HoA will be placed in the HoA-IP AVP. >We can say: >AAA can route over any of these attribute and other attributes as >well. However, for general roaming NAI SHOULD be available and placed in >the UserName. > >Device acting as NAS RADIUS > >HA or FA IP address -----> NAS-IP >HA or FA FQDN if availabe -----> NAS-ID > >I am assuming HA or FA NAI is really the FQDN and that belongs in the >NAS-ID attribute in RADIUS. I would like a clarification. There's a shared secret (AAA-Key) between NAS (IP address A) and RADIUS server. The HA (NAS) processes registration with HA field set to IP address B. So we expect that A = B in all cases? Currently, I'm not sure if there's any reason for A != B. Unless someone comes up with a practical scenario, I'm fine with this. As for FQDN, RFC 3846 defines the HA NAI. The NAI format would need to be mapped to FQDN. Excerpt from spec: "It contains the NAI of the HA in the form hostname@realm. Together the hostname and realm form the complete FQDN (hostname.realm) of the HA." Kent -- | | Kent Leung :|: :|: IP Mobility Development :|||: :|||: Internet Technologies Division :|||||||: :|||||||: Voice: 408.526.5030 .:|||||||||:.:|||||||||:. Fax: 408.525.1653 c i s c o S y s t e m s Email: kleung@cisco.com --=====================_60552009==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Hi Avi.

At 11:53 AM 4/6/2005 -0400, Avi Lior wrote:
 
Kent said:
 
In general, I believe deployments which don't use NAI for MNs are not
concerned about AAA-routability.  In this case, the AAA server is in the
same administrative domain as the HA (or NAS).
This seems to make sense (at least) to me.  If NAI is not used other thing such as HoA or even other identifiers such as device ids, can and are being used to route AAA.  AAA allows for that and we should allow for that as well.  I dont think though that we have to limit how routing is done.  We just have to explain how MIPv4 attributes are mapped to RADIUS attributet. 


Agree.


For people who understand MIP and RADIUS it is painfully obvious how you would deploy.  So for the rest of us what would be usefull is informative text to explain things a bit.
 
So here is my understanding:
 
MIP                                            RADIUS
 
NAI    if available will be placed in   UserName
HA IP if avialable will be place in    HA-IP attribute


OK.


HoA   if available will be placed in  HoA-IP attribute
 


HoA in the absence of NAI will be placed in the UserName,
as the HoA is the MN identifier (username) to the RADIUS server
in this case.  I'm not sure if HoA should also be placed in
the HoA-IP AVP as well?

When NAI is present, HoA will be placed in the HoA-IP AVP.


We can say:
AAA can route over any of these attribute and other attributes as well.  However, for general roaming NAI SHOULD be available and placed in the UserName.
 
Device   acting as NAS                 RADIUS
 
HA or FA  IP address          ----->    NAS-IP
HA or FA FQDN if availabe   ----->    NAS-ID
 
I am assuming HA or FA NAI is really the FQDN and that belongs in the NAS-ID attribute in RADIUS.


I would like a clarification.

There's a shared secret (AAA-Key) between NAS (IP address A) and RADIUS server.
The HA (NAS) processes registration with HA field set to IP address B.  So we
expect that A = B in all cases?

Currently, I'm not sure if there's any reason for A != B.  Unless someone
comes up with a practical scenario, I'm fine with this.

As for FQDN, RFC 3846 defines the HA NAI.  The NAI format would need to
be mapped to FQDN.  Excerpt from spec:

   "It contains the NAI of the HA in the form hostname@realm.  Together the
   hostname and realm form the complete FQDN (hostname.realm) of the HA."

Kent


--
     |           |                   Kent Leung
    :|:         :|:                  IP Mobility Development
   :|||:       :|||:                 Internet Technologies Division
  :|||||||:   :|||||||:              Voice: 408.526.5030
.:|||||||||:.:|||||||||:.             Fax:   408.525.1653
 c i s c o S y s t e m s             Email: kleung@cisco.com --=====================_60552009==_.ALT-- --===============0805912473== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -- Mip4 mailing list: Mip4@ietf.org Web interface: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip4 Charter page: http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/mip4-charter.html Supplemental site: http://www.mip4.org/ --===============0805912473==-- From mip4-bounces@ietf.org Wed Apr 6 14:58:13 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA15813 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 14:58:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DJFrc-0001Ak-J7 for mip4-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 06 Apr 2005 15:06:57 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DJFhl-0001NX-6S; Wed, 06 Apr 2005 14:56:45 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DJFhj-0001M4-27 for mip4@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 06 Apr 2005 14:56:44 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA15490 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 14:56:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bws14.bridgewatersystems.com ([216.113.7.14]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DJFq6-00013D-Vo for mip4@ietf.org; Wed, 06 Apr 2005 15:05:24 -0400 Received: by exch01.bridgewatersys.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 14:56:32 -0400 Message-ID: From: Avi Lior To: "'Kent Leung'" , Avi Lior Subject: RE: [Mip4] draft on RADIUS support for Mobile IP Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 14:56:26 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) X-Spam-Score: 0.9 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 6437e26f1586b9f35812ea5ebeedf4ad Cc: Nakhjiri Madjid-MNAKHJI1 , "Chowdhury, Kuntal" , Mobile IPv4 Mailing List , Avi Lior X-BeenThere: mip4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobility for IPv4 List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0699826124==" Sender: mip4-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip4-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.9 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 46ad68ada464411807db2a0edd5648ae This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --===============0699826124== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C53ADA.55796DB0" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C53ADA.55796DB0 Content-Type: text/plain Hi Kent, See inline...... -----Original Message----- From: Kent Leung [mailto:kleung@cisco.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 1:54 PM To: Avi Lior Cc: Nakhjiri Madjid-MNAKHJI1; Nakhjiri Madjid-MNAKHJI1; Chowdhury, Kuntal; Mobile IPv4 Mailing List; Avi Lior Subject: RE: [Mip4] draft on RADIUS support for Mobile IP Hi Avi. At 11:53 AM 4/6/2005 -0400, Avi Lior wrote: Kent said: In general, I believe deployments which don't use NAI for MNs are not concerned about AAA-routability. In this case, the AAA server is in the same administrative domain as the HA (or NAS). This seems to make sense (at least) to me. If NAI is not used other thing such as HoA or even other identifiers such as device ids, can and are being used to route AAA. AAA allows for that and we should allow for that as well. I dont think though that we have to limit how routing is done. We just have to explain how MIPv4 attributes are mapped to RADIUS attributet. Agree. For people who understand MIP and RADIUS it is painfully obvious how you would deploy. So for the rest of us what would be usefull is informative text to explain things a bit. So here is my understanding: MIP RADIUS NAI if available will be placed in UserName HA IP if avialable will be place in HA-IP attribute OK. HoA if available will be placed in HoA-IP attribute HoA in the absence of NAI will be placed in the UserName, as the HoA is the MN identifier (username) to the RADIUS server in this case. I'm not sure if HoA should also be placed in the HoA-IP AVP as well? [Avi] Actually why do you need the HOA in the UserName? When NAI is present, HoA will be placed in the HoA-IP AVP. We can say: AAA can route over any of these attribute and other attributes as well. However, for general roaming NAI SHOULD be available and placed in the UserName. Device acting as NAS RADIUS HA or FA IP address -----> NAS-IP HA or FA FQDN if availabe -----> NAS-ID I am assuming HA or FA NAI is really the FQDN and that belongs in the NAS-ID attribute in RADIUS. I would like a clarification. [Avi] I need to understand what you are saying. There's a shared secret (AAA-Key) between NAS (IP address A) and RADIUS server. The HA (NAS) processes registration with HA field set to IP address B. So we expect that A = B in all cases? Currently, I'm not sure if there's any reason for A != B. Unless someone comes up with a practical scenario, I'm fine with this. As for FQDN, RFC 3846 defines the HA NAI. The NAI format would need to be mapped to FQDN. Excerpt from spec: "It contains the NAI of the HA in the form hostname@realm. Together the hostname and realm form the complete FQDN (hostname.realm) of the HA." [Avi] Actually, Kent, the definition of 3846 is okay. It will fit in the NAS-Identifier attribute just fine. NAS-Identifier can have any value as long as we know what the format is. So we can convert it to a FQDN or just leave it as is. Kent -- | | Kent Leung :|: :|: IP Mobility Development :|||: :|||: Internet Technologies Division :|||||||: :|||||||: Voice: 408.526.5030 .:|||||||||:.:|||||||||:. Fax: 408.525.1653 c i s c o S y s t e m s Email: kleung@cisco.com ------_=_NextPart_001_01C53ADA.55796DB0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message
Hi=20 Kent,
 
See=20 inline......
-----Original Message-----
From: = Kent Leung=20 [mailto:kleung@cisco.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 = 1:54=20 PM
To: Avi Lior
Cc: Nakhjiri Madjid-MNAKHJI1; = Nakhjiri=20 Madjid-MNAKHJI1; Chowdhury, Kuntal; Mobile IPv4 Mailing List; Avi=20 Lior
Subject: RE: [Mip4] draft on RADIUS support for Mobile = IP

Hi Avi.

At 11:53 AM 4/6/2005 -0400, Avi = Lior=20 wrote:

Kent said:
 
In=20 general, I believe deployments which don't use NAI for MNs are=20 not
concerned about AAA-routability.  In this case, the AAA = server=20 is in the
same administrative domain as the HA (or = NAS).
This seems to make sense = (at least) to=20 me.  If NAI is not used other thing such as HoA or even other=20 identifiers such as device ids, can and are being used to route = AAA. =20 AAA allows for that and we should allow for that as well.  I = dont think=20 though that we have to limit how routing is done.  We just = have to=20 explain how MIPv4 attributes are mapped to RADIUS attributet.  =


Agree.


For=20 people who understand MIP and RADIUS it is painfully obvious how = you would=20 deploy.  So for the rest of us what would be usefull is = informative=20 text to explain things a bit.
 
So here is my = understanding:
 
MIP          =             =             =          =20 RADIUS
 
NAI    if available will be placed = in  =20 UserName
HA = IP if avialable=20 will be place in    HA-IP=20 attribute


OK.


HoA   if available will be placed in  = HoA-IP=20 attribute
 


HoA in the absence of NAI will be placed in the = UserName,
as=20 the HoA is the MN identifier (username) to the RADIUS server
in = this=20 case.  I'm not sure if HoA should also be placed in
the = HoA-IP AVP as=20 well?
[Avi] Actually why do you need the HOA in the=20 UserName? 
 
When NAI is = present, HoA=20 will be placed in the HoA-IP AVP.


We can=20 say:
AAA can = route over any=20 of these attribute and other attributes as well.  However, for = general=20 roaming NAI SHOULD be available and placed in the=20 UserName.
 
Device   acting as=20 = NAS           &nb= sp;    =20 RADIUS
 
HA or=20 FA  IP = address         =20 ----->    NAS-IP
HA or FA FQDN if availabe   = ----->   =20 NAS-ID
 
I am=20 assuming HA or FA NAI is really the FQDN and that belongs in the = NAS-ID=20 attribute in RADIUS.

 
I would like a = clarification.

[Avi] I=20 need to understand what you are=20 saying. 
There's a shared secret (AAA-Key) = between NAS=20 (IP address A) and RADIUS server.
  
The = HA (NAS)=20 processes registration with HA field set to IP address B.  So=20 we
expect that A =3D B in all cases?

Currently, I'm not = sure if=20 there's any reason for A !=3D B.  Unless someone
comes up = with a=20 practical scenario, I'm fine with this.

 
 As for FQDN, RFC 3846 = defines the HA=20 NAI.  The NAI format would need to
be mapped to FQDN.  = Excerpt=20 from spec:

   "It contains the NAI of the HA in the = form=20 hostname@realm.  Together the
   hostname and realm = form the=20 complete FQDN (hostname.realm) of the HA."
[Avi] Actually, Kent, the definition of 3846 is = okay.  It=20 will fit in the NAS-Identifier attribute just fine.  = NAS-Identifier can=20 have any value as long as we know what the format is. So we can = convert it to=20 a FQDN or just leave it as=20 is. 

Kent


--
    =20 |          =20 = |            = ;      =20 Kent Leung
    = :|:        =20 = :|:           &nb= sp;     =20 IP Mobility Development
   :|||:      =20 = :|||:           &= nbsp;    =20 Internet Technologies Division
  :|||||||:  =20 = :|||||||:          &nb= sp;  =20 Voice: 408.526.5030
=
.:|||||||||:.:|||||||||:.       =      =20 Fax:   408.525.1653
 c i s c o S y s t e m=20 = s            = ;=20 Email: kleung@cisco.com ------_=_NextPart_001_01C53ADA.55796DB0-- --===============0699826124== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -- Mip4 mailing list: Mip4@ietf.org Web interface: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip4 Charter page: http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/mip4-charter.html Supplemental site: http://www.mip4.org/ --===============0699826124==-- From mip4-bounces@ietf.org Wed Apr 6 16:13:51 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA29700 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 16:13:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DJH2o-0005Qx-45 for mip4-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 06 Apr 2005 16:22:35 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DJGsl-0000x0-3E; Wed, 06 Apr 2005 16:12:11 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DJGsi-0000wp-AG for mip4@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 06 Apr 2005 16:12:08 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA29490 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 16:12:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sj-iport-3-in.cisco.com ([171.71.176.72] helo=sj-iport-3.cisco.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DJH16-0005Lm-G8 for mip4@ietf.org; Wed, 06 Apr 2005 16:20:50 -0400 Received: from sj-core-1.cisco.com (171.71.177.237) by sj-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 06 Apr 2005 13:11:52 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: i="3.92,81,1112598000"; d="scan'208,217"; a="246574452:sNHT1031838196" Received: from mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com (IDENT:mirapoint@mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com [171.71.163.14]) by sj-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j36KBkDr014731; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 13:11:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kleung-w2k01.cisco.com (sjc-vpn5-280.cisco.com [10.21.89.24]) by mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com (MOS 3.4.5-GR) with ESMTP id BDS28552; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 13:11:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20050406120245.034bb270@mira-sjcm-2.cisco.com> X-Sender: kleung@mira-sjcm-2.cisco.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2005 13:11:10 -0700 To: Avi Lior From: Kent Leung Subject: RE: [Mip4] draft on RADIUS support for Mobile IP In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 578c2c9d0cb01ffe6e1ca36540edd070 Cc: Nakhjiri Madjid-MNAKHJI1 , "Chowdhury, Kuntal" , Mobile IPv4 Mailing List , Avi Lior X-BeenThere: mip4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobility for IPv4 List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1980579653==" Sender: mip4-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip4-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Scan-Signature: fe105289edd72640d9f392da880eefa2 --===============1980579653== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_67722249==_.ALT" --=====================_67722249==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 02:56 PM 4/6/2005 -0400, Avi Lior wrote: >>HoA if available will be placed in HoA-IP attribute >> > > >HoA in the absence of NAI will be placed in the UserName, >as the HoA is the MN identifier (username) to the RADIUS server >in this case. I'm not sure if HoA should also be placed in >the HoA-IP AVP as well? >[Avi] Actually why do you need the HOA in the UserName? > Just wondering how the MN is going to be identified for authentication without UserName? I thought typically this is the attribute used to lookup the authentication key in the RADIUS server. >When NAI is present, HoA will be placed in the HoA-IP AVP. > > > >>We can say: >>AAA can route over any of these attribute and other attributes as >>well. However, for general roaming NAI SHOULD be available and placed in >>the UserName. >> >>Device acting as NAS RADIUS >> >>HA or FA IP address -----> NAS-IP >>HA or FA FQDN if availabe -----> NAS-ID >> >>I am assuming HA or FA NAI is really the FQDN and that belongs in the >>NAS-ID attribute in RADIUS. > >I would like a clarification. > >[Avi] I need to understand what you are saying. Sure, I'm not clear which part is confusing or unclear. Maybe the entire thought process? :) Is it expected that the HA field in the RRQ/RRP is the same as the NAS IP address? What happens when HA field is set to all 1s or 0s? Here is an example to highlight the issue. There is a box that does both PPP termination and Mobile IP. For PPP sessions, the NAS will set the NAS-IP-Address to the interface's IP address (10.1.0.1) that is used to send the Access-Req to the RADIUS server. The RADIUS server authenticates the Access-Req from the NAS, which is identified by the NAS-IP-Address. For Mobile IP, the box acts as HA. MN sends RRQ to the HA with HA field set to 10.10.0.1. HA creates the Access-Req with NAS-IP-Address before sending to RADIUS server. Which IP address should HA set, egress interface (10.1.0.1) or HA address (10.10.0.1)? The RADIUS server has a shared secret with the RADIUS client 10.1.0.1. If NAS-IP-Address is 10.10.0.1, the RADIUS server would not be able to authenticate the Access-Req and drop this message. >There's a shared secret (AAA-Key) between NAS (IP address A) and RADIUS >server. > >The HA (NAS) processes registration with HA field set to IP address B. So we >expect that A = B in all cases? > >Currently, I'm not sure if there's any reason for A != B. Unless someone >comes up with a practical scenario, I'm fine with this. > > > As for FQDN, RFC 3846 defines the HA NAI. The NAI format would need to >be mapped to FQDN. Excerpt from spec: > > "It contains the NAI of the HA in the form hostname@realm. Together the > hostname and realm form the complete FQDN (hostname.realm) of the HA." >[Avi] Actually, Kent, the definition of 3846 is okay. It will fit in the >NAS-Identifier attribute just fine. NAS-Identifier can have any value as >long as we know what the format is. So we can convert it to a FQDN or just >leave it as is. OK. I thought your mention of FQDN in the NAS-ID meant that the AVP restricted the format to only FQDN. Sounds like as long as RADIUS server can figure out the format, we're fine. Kent -- | | Kent Leung :|: :|: IP Mobility Development :|||: :|||: Internet Technologies Division :|||||||: :|||||||: Voice: 408.526.5030 .:|||||||||:.:|||||||||:. Fax: 408.525.1653 c i s c o S y s t e m s Email: kleung@cisco.com --=====================_67722249==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" At 02:56 PM 4/6/2005 -0400, Avi Lior wrote:
<snip>
HoA   if available will be placed in  HoA-IP attribute
 


HoA in the absence of NAI will be placed in the UserName,
as the HoA is the MN identifier (username) to the RADIUS server
in this case.  I'm not sure if HoA should also be placed in
the HoA-IP AVP as well?
[Avi] Actually why do you need the HOA in the UserName?
 


Just wondering how the MN is going to be identified for authentication
without UserName?  I thought typically this is the attribute used to
lookup the authentication key in the RADIUS server.


When NAI is present, HoA will be placed in the HoA-IP AVP.



We can say:
AAA can route over any of these attribute and other attributes as well.  However, for general roaming NAI SHOULD be available and placed in the UserName.
 
Device   acting as NAS                 RADIUS
 
HA or FA  IP address          ----->    NAS-IP
HA or FA FQDN if availabe   ----->    NAS-ID
 
I am assuming HA or FA NAI is really the FQDN and that belongs in the NAS-ID attribute in RADIUS.
 
I would like a clarification.

[Avi] I need to understand what you are saying.


Sure, I'm not clear which part is confusing or unclear.  Maybe the entire thought
process? :)

Is it expected that the HA field in the RRQ/RRP is the same as the NAS IP address?
What happens when HA field is set to all 1s or 0s?

Here is an example to highlight the issue.

There is a box that does both PPP termination and Mobile IP.

For PPP sessions, the NAS will set the NAS-IP-Address to the interface's
IP address (10.1.0.1) that is used to send the Access-Req to the RADIUS server. 
The RADIUS server authenticates the Access-Req from the NAS, which is
identified by the NAS-IP-Address.

For Mobile IP, the box acts as HA.  MN sends RRQ to the HA with HA field
set to 10.10.0.1.  HA creates the Access-Req with NAS-IP-Address before
sending to RADIUS server.  Which IP address should HA set, egress
interface (10.1.0.1) or HA address (10.10.0.1)?

The RADIUS server has a shared secret with the RADIUS client 10.1.0.1.
If NAS-IP-Address is 10.10.0.1, the RADIUS server would not be able to
authenticate the Access-Req and drop this message.


There's a shared secret (AAA-Key) between NAS (IP address A) and RADIUS server.
 
The HA (NAS) processes registration with HA field set to IP address B.  So we
expect that A = B in all cases?

Currently, I'm not sure if there's any reason for A != B.  Unless someone
comes up with a practical scenario, I'm fine with this.

 
 As for FQDN, RFC 3846 defines the HA NAI.  The NAI format would need to
be mapped to FQDN.  Excerpt from spec:

   "It contains the NAI of the HA in the form hostname@realm.  Together the
   hostname and realm form the complete FQDN (hostname.realm) of the HA."
[Avi] Actually, Kent, the definition of 3846 is okay.  It will fit in the NAS-Identifier attribute just fine.  NAS-Identifier can have any value as long as we know what the format is. So we can convert it to a FQDN or just leave it as is.

OK.  I thought your mention of FQDN in the NAS-ID meant that the AVP restricted
the format to only FQDN.  Sounds like as long as RADIUS server can figure out the
format, we're fine.

Kent

--
     |           |                   Kent Leung
    :|:         :|:                  IP Mobility Development
   :|||:       :|||:                 Internet Technologies Division
  :|||||||:   :|||||||:              Voice: 408.526.5030
.:|||||||||:.:|||||||||:.             Fax:   408.525.1653
 c i s c o S y s t e m s             Email: kleung@cisco.com --=====================_67722249==_.ALT-- --===============1980579653== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -- Mip4 mailing list: Mip4@ietf.org Web interface: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip4 Charter page: http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/mip4-charter.html Supplemental site: http://www.mip4.org/ --===============1980579653==-- From mip4-bounces@ietf.org Wed Apr 6 16:38:08 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA02065 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 16:38:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DJHQK-0006Bu-Uy for mip4-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 06 Apr 2005 16:46:53 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DJHD7-0007ZE-KC; Wed, 06 Apr 2005 16:33:13 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DJHD6-0007Z9-KU for mip4@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 06 Apr 2005 16:33:12 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA01687 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 16:33:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ames.starentnetworks.com ([12.33.235.15]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DJHLT-000652-Uj for mip4@ietf.org; Wed, 06 Apr 2005 16:41:55 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: RE: [Mip4] draft on RADIUS support for Mobile IP Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 16:32:56 -0400 Message-ID: <8A16DAD84432534FBFC19FD92B50512F03411AE5@ames.starentnetworks.com> Thread-Topic: [Mip4] draft on RADIUS support for Mobile IP Thread-Index: AcU65ONMOWK/g451RHCZkm/h4f8+0gAAcHjw From: "Chowdhury, Kuntal" To: "Kent Leung" , "Avi Lior" X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 715d0e6950aaebd45af78ef9318d0186 Cc: Nakhjiri Madjid-MNAKHJI1 , Mobile IPv4 Mailing List , Avi Lior X-BeenThere: mip4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobility for IPv4 List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0396985063==" Sender: mip4-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip4-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 14278aea5bdd1edf35ec09ffb7b61f9d This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============0396985063== Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C53AE7.D0FC63EC" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C53AE7.D0FC63EC Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kent, =20 In your scenario the HA should set the NAS-IP address to 10.1.0.1. The = HA address (10.10.0.1) from the RRQ can be put into the HA-IP address = AVP. The HA address extracted from the RRQ should always be sent in a = separate AVP from the NAS-IP address AVP, since there is no guarantee = that the interface address of the NAS that is used to communicate with = the AAA is same as it's HA address. =20 -Kuntal -----Original Message----- From: Kent Leung [mailto:kleung@cisco.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 3:11 PM To: Avi Lior Cc: Avi Lior; Nakhjiri Madjid-MNAKHJI1; Nakhjiri Madjid-MNAKHJI1; = Chowdhury, Kuntal; Mobile IPv4 Mailing List; Avi Lior Subject: RE: [Mip4] draft on RADIUS support for Mobile IP At 02:56 PM 4/6/2005 -0400, Avi Lior wrote: HoA if available will be placed in HoA-IP attribute=20 =20 HoA in the absence of NAI will be placed in the UserName,=20 as the HoA is the MN identifier (username) to the RADIUS server=20 in this case. I'm not sure if HoA should also be placed in=20 the HoA-IP AVP as well?=20 [Avi] Actually why do you need the HOA in the UserName?=20 =20 Just wondering how the MN is going to be identified for authentication without UserName? I thought typically this is the attribute used to lookup the authentication key in the RADIUS server. When NAI is present, HoA will be placed in the HoA-IP AVP. We can say:=20 AAA can route over any of these attribute and other attributes as well. = However, for general roaming NAI SHOULD be available and placed in the = UserName.=20 Device acting as NAS RADIUS=20 HA or FA IP address -----> NAS-IP=20 HA or FA FQDN if availabe -----> NAS-ID=20 I am assuming HA or FA NAI is really the FQDN and that belongs in the = NAS-ID attribute in RADIUS. I would like a clarification. [Avi] I need to understand what you are saying.=20 Sure, I'm not clear which part is confusing or unclear. Maybe the = entire thought process? :) Is it expected that the HA field in the RRQ/RRP is the same as the NAS = IP address? What happens when HA field is set to all 1s or 0s? Here is an example to highlight the issue. There is a box that does both PPP termination and Mobile IP. For PPP sessions, the NAS will set the NAS-IP-Address to the interface's IP address (10.1.0.1) that is used to send the Access-Req to the RADIUS = server. =20 The RADIUS server authenticates the Access-Req from the NAS, which is=20 identified by the NAS-IP-Address. For Mobile IP, the box acts as HA. MN sends RRQ to the HA with HA field set to 10.10.0.1. HA creates the Access-Req with NAS-IP-Address before=20 sending to RADIUS server. Which IP address should HA set, egress=20 interface (10.1.0.1) or HA address (10.10.0.1)?=20 The RADIUS server has a shared secret with the RADIUS client 10.1.0.1. If NAS-IP-Address is 10.10.0.1, the RADIUS server would not be able to authenticate the Access-Req and drop this message. There's a shared secret (AAA-Key) between NAS (IP address A) and RADIUS = server.=20 =20 The HA (NAS) processes registration with HA field set to IP address B. = So we=20 expect that A =3D B in all cases? Currently, I'm not sure if there's any reason for A !=3D B. Unless = someone=20 comes up with a practical scenario, I'm fine with this. As for FQDN, RFC 3846 defines the HA NAI. The NAI format would need to = be mapped to FQDN. Excerpt from spec: "It contains the NAI of the HA in the form hostname@realm. Together = the=20 hostname and realm form the complete FQDN (hostname.realm) of the = HA."=20 [Avi] Actually, Kent, the definition of 3846 is okay. It will fit in = the NAS-Identifier attribute just fine. NAS-Identifier can have any = value as long as we know what the format is. So we can convert it to a = FQDN or just leave it as is.=20 OK. I thought your mention of FQDN in the NAS-ID meant that the AVP = restricted the format to only FQDN. Sounds like as long as RADIUS server can = figure out the=20 format, we're fine. Kent -- | | Kent Leung :|: :|: IP Mobility Development :|||: :|||: Internet Technologies Division :|||||||: :|||||||: Voice: 408.526.5030 .:|||||||||:.:|||||||||:. Fax: 408.525.1653 c i s c o S y s t e m s Email: kleung@cisco.com=20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C53AE7.D0FC63EC Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Kent,
 
In=20 your scenario the HA should set the NAS-IP address to 10.1.0.1. The HA=20 address (10.10.0.1) from the RRQ can be put into the HA-IP address = AVP. The=20 HA address extracted from the RRQ should always be sent in a separate = AVP from=20 the NAS-IP address AVP, since there is no guarantee that the interface = address=20 of the NAS that is used to communicate with the AAA is same as it's HA=20 address.
 
-Kuntal
-----Original Message-----
From: Kent Leung=20 [mailto:kleung@cisco.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 = 3:11=20 PM
To: Avi Lior
Cc: Avi Lior; Nakhjiri = Madjid-MNAKHJI1;=20 Nakhjiri Madjid-MNAKHJI1; Chowdhury, Kuntal; Mobile IPv4 Mailing List; = Avi=20 Lior
Subject: RE: [Mip4] draft on RADIUS support for Mobile=20 IP

At 02:56 PM 4/6/2005 -0400, Avi Lior = wrote:
<snip>
HoA   if available will be placed in  HoA-IP=20 attribute=20
 


HoA in the absence of NAI will be placed in the UserName,=20
as the HoA is the MN identifier (username) to the RADIUS server=20
in this case.  I'm not sure if HoA should also be placed in =
the HoA-IP AVP as well?=20
[Avi] Actually why do you need the HOA in the UserName?
 


Just wondering how the MN is going to be identified = for=20 authentication
without UserName?  I thought typically this is = the=20 attribute used to
lookup the authentication key in the RADIUS=20 server.


When NAI is present, HoA will be placed in the HoA-IP=20 AVP.



We can say:=20
AAA can route over any of these attribute and other = attributes as=20 well.  However, for general roaming NAI SHOULD be available = and=20 placed in the UserName.=20
=20
Device   acting as=20 = NAS           &nbs= p;    =20 RADIUS=20
=20
HA or FA  IP=20 address         =20 ----->    NAS-IP=20
HA or FA FQDN if availabe   = ----->   =20 NAS-ID=20
=20
I am assuming HA or FA NAI is really the FQDN and that = belongs in=20 the NAS-ID attribute in RADIUS.
=20
I would like a clarification.

[Avi] I need to understand what you are saying.=20


Sure, I'm not clear which part is confusing or = unclear. =20 Maybe the entire thought
process? :)

Is it expected that the = HA=20 field in the RRQ/RRP is the same as the NAS IP address?
What = happens when=20 HA field is set to all 1s or 0s?

Here is an example to = highlight the=20 issue.

There is a box that does both PPP termination and Mobile = IP.

For PPP sessions, the NAS will set the NAS-IP-Address to = the=20 interface's
IP address (10.1.0.1) that is used to send the = Access-Req to=20 the RADIUS server. 
The RADIUS server authenticates the = Access-Req=20 from the NAS, which is
identified by the = NAS-IP-Address.

For Mobile=20 IP, the box acts as HA.  MN sends RRQ to the HA with HA = field
set to=20 10.10.0.1.  HA creates the Access-Req with NAS-IP-Address before=20
sending to RADIUS server.  Which IP address should HA set, = egress=20
interface (10.1.0.1) or HA address (10.10.0.1)?

The RADIUS = server=20 has a shared secret with the RADIUS client 10.1.0.1.
If = NAS-IP-Address is=20 10.10.0.1, the RADIUS server would not be able to
authenticate the=20 Access-Req and drop this message.


There's a shared secret (AAA-Key) between NAS (IP address A) = and=20 RADIUS server.=20
 
The HA (NAS) processes registration with HA field set to IP = address=20 B.  So we=20
expect that A =3D B in all cases?

Currently, I'm not sure if there's any reason for A !=3D = B.  Unless=20 someone=20
comes up with a practical scenario, I'm fine with = this.

=20
 As for FQDN, RFC 3846 defines the HA NAI.  = The NAI=20 format would need to=20
be mapped to FQDN.  Excerpt from spec:

   "It contains the NAI of the HA in the form=20 hostname@realm.  Together the=20
   hostname and realm form the complete FQDN=20 (hostname.realm) of the HA."=20
[Avi] Actually, Kent, the definition of 3846 is okay.  It = will=20 fit in the NAS-Identifier attribute just fine.  = NAS-Identifier can=20 have any value as long as we know what the format is. So we can = convert it=20 to a FQDN or just leave it as is.

OK.  I thought your mention of FQDN in the NAS-ID = meant that=20 the AVP restricted
the format to only FQDN.  Sounds like as = long as=20 RADIUS server can figure out the
format, we're = fine.

Kent

--
    =20 |          =20 = |            =       =20 Kent Leung
    = :|:        =20 = :|:           &nbs= p;     =20 IP Mobility Development
   :|||:      =20 = :|||:           &n= bsp;    =20 Internet Technologies Division
  :|||||||:  =20 = :|||||||:          &nbs= p;  =20 Voice: 408.526.5030
=
.:|||||||||:.:|||||||||:.       &= nbsp;    =20 Fax:   408.525.1653
 c i s c o S y s t e m=20 = s            = =20 Email: kleung@cisco.com ------_=_NextPart_001_01C53AE7.D0FC63EC-- --===============0396985063== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -- Mip4 mailing list: Mip4@ietf.org Web interface: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip4 Charter page: http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/mip4-charter.html Supplemental site: http://www.mip4.org/ --===============0396985063==-- From mip4-bounces@ietf.org Wed Apr 6 17:46:14 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA07846 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 17:46:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DJIUF-00082P-9v for mip4-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 06 Apr 2005 17:54:59 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DJIAg-00073i-0g; Wed, 06 Apr 2005 17:34:46 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DJIAb-0006zm-Hw for mip4@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 06 Apr 2005 17:34:43 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA06724 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 17:34:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sj-iport-4.cisco.com ([171.68.10.86]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DJIJ1-0007lB-He for mip4@ietf.org; Wed, 06 Apr 2005 17:43:24 -0400 Received: from sj-core-4.cisco.com (171.68.223.138) by sj-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP; 06 Apr 2005 14:34:31 -0700 Received: from mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com (IDENT:mirapoint@mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com [171.71.163.14]) by sj-core-4.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j36LYS3S015212; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 14:34:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kleung-w2k01.cisco.com (sjc-vpn5-280.cisco.com [10.21.89.24]) by mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com (MOS 3.4.5-GR) with ESMTP id BDS36031; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 14:18:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20050406141553.03e320d0@mira-sjcm-2.cisco.com> X-Sender: kleung@mira-sjcm-2.cisco.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2005 14:18:32 -0700 To: "Chowdhury, Kuntal" From: Kent Leung Subject: RE: [Mip4] draft on RADIUS support for Mobile IP In-Reply-To: <8A16DAD84432534FBFC19FD92B50512F03411AE5@ames.starentnetwo rks.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Scan-Signature: df1883a27a831c1ea5e8cfe5eb3ad38e Cc: Nakhjiri Madjid-MNAKHJI1 , Mobile IPv4 Mailing List , Avi Lior X-BeenThere: mip4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobility for IPv4 List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0901031613==" Sender: mip4-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip4-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 06d29b9b22258f4f07fe89b4d4a05a86 --===============0901031613== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_71763780==_.ALT" --=====================_71763780==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Hi Kuntal. If it's agreed on that the NAS-IP-Address and the HA address may not be the same, we need to fix the following. Device acting as NAS RADIUS HA or FA IP address -----> NAS-IP HA or FA FQDN if availabe -----> NAS-ID So, it will be? HA or FA IP address -----> HA-IP or FA-IP HA or FA FQDN if availabe -----> HA-ID or FA-ID Kent At 04:32 PM 4/6/2005 -0400, Chowdhury, Kuntal wrote: >Content-class: urn:content-classes:message >Content-Type: multipart/alternative; > boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C53AE7.D0FC63EC" > >Kent, > >In your scenario the HA should set the NAS-IP address to 10.1.0.1. The HA >address (10.10.0.1) from the RRQ can be put into the HA-IP address AVP. >The HA address extracted from the RRQ should always be sent in a separate >AVP from the NAS-IP address AVP, since there is no guarantee that the >interface address of the NAS that is used to communicate with the AAA is >same as it's HA address. > >-Kuntal >-----Original Message----- >From: Kent Leung [mailto:kleung@cisco.com] >Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 3:11 PM >To: Avi Lior >Cc: Avi Lior; Nakhjiri Madjid-MNAKHJI1; Nakhjiri Madjid-MNAKHJI1; >Chowdhury, Kuntal; Mobile IPv4 Mailing List; Avi Lior >Subject: RE: [Mip4] draft on RADIUS support for Mobile IP > >At 02:56 PM 4/6/2005 -0400, Avi Lior wrote: > >>>HoA if available will be placed in HoA-IP attribute >>> >> >> >>HoA in the absence of NAI will be placed in the UserName, >>as the HoA is the MN identifier (username) to the RADIUS server >>in this case. I'm not sure if HoA should also be placed in >>the HoA-IP AVP as well? >>[Avi] Actually why do you need the HOA in the UserName? >> > > > >Just wondering how the MN is going to be identified for authentication >without UserName? I thought typically this is the attribute used to >lookup the authentication key in the RADIUS server. > >>When NAI is present, HoA will be placed in the HoA-IP AVP. >> >> >> >> >> >>>We can say: >>>AAA can route over any of these attribute and other attributes as >>>well. However, for general roaming NAI SHOULD be available and placed >>>in the UserName. >>>Device acting as NAS RADIUS >>>HA or FA IP address -----> NAS-IP >>>HA or FA FQDN if availabe -----> NAS-ID >>>I am assuming HA or FA NAI is really the FQDN and that belongs in the >>>NAS-ID attribute in RADIUS. >>I would like a clarification. >> >>[Avi] I need to understand what you are saying. > > >Sure, I'm not clear which part is confusing or unclear. Maybe the entire >thought >process? :) > >Is it expected that the HA field in the RRQ/RRP is the same as the NAS IP >address? >What happens when HA field is set to all 1s or 0s? > >Here is an example to highlight the issue. > >There is a box that does both PPP termination and Mobile IP. > >For PPP sessions, the NAS will set the NAS-IP-Address to the interface's >IP address (10.1.0.1) that is used to send the Access-Req to the RADIUS >server. >The RADIUS server authenticates the Access-Req from the NAS, which is >identified by the NAS-IP-Address. > >For Mobile IP, the box acts as HA. MN sends RRQ to the HA with HA field >set to 10.10.0.1. HA creates the Access-Req with NAS-IP-Address before >sending to RADIUS server. Which IP address should HA set, egress >interface (10.1.0.1) or HA address (10.10.0.1)? > >The RADIUS server has a shared secret with the RADIUS client 10.1.0.1. >If NAS-IP-Address is 10.10.0.1, the RADIUS server would not be able to >authenticate the Access-Req and drop this message. > >>There's a shared secret (AAA-Key) between NAS (IP address A) and RADIUS >>server. >> >>The HA (NAS) processes registration with HA field set to IP address >>B. So we >>expect that A = B in all cases? >> >>Currently, I'm not sure if there's any reason for A != B. Unless someone >>comes up with a practical scenario, I'm fine with this. >> >> As for FQDN, RFC 3846 defines the HA NAI. The NAI format would need to >>be mapped to FQDN. Excerpt from spec: >> >> "It contains the NAI of the HA in the form hostname@realm. Together the >> hostname and realm form the complete FQDN (hostname.realm) of the HA." >>[Avi] Actually, Kent, the definition of 3846 is okay. It will fit in the >>NAS-Identifier attribute just fine. NAS-Identifier can have any value as >>long as we know what the format is. So we can convert it to a FQDN or >>just leave it as is. > >OK. I thought your mention of FQDN in the NAS-ID meant that the AVP >restricted >the format to only FQDN. Sounds like as long as RADIUS server can figure >out the >format, we're fine. > >Kent > >-- > | | Kent Leung > :|: :|: IP Mobility Development > :|||: :|||: Internet Technologies Division > :|||||||: :|||||||: Voice: 408.526.5030 >.:|||||||||:.:|||||||||:. Fax: 408.525.1653 > c i s c o S y s t e m s Email: kleung@cisco.com > >-- >Mip4 mailing list: Mip4@ietf.org > Web interface: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip4 > Charter page: http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/mip4-charter.html >Supplemental site: http://www.mip4.org/ -- | | Kent Leung :|: :|: IP Mobility Development :|||: :|||: Internet Technologies Division :|||||||: :|||||||: Voice: 408.526.5030 .:|||||||||:.:|||||||||:. Fax: 408.525.1653 c i s c o S y s t e m s Email: kleung@cisco.com --=====================_71763780==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Hi Kuntal.  If it's agreed on that the NAS-IP-Address and the HA address may
not be the same, we need to fix the following.

Device   acting as NAS                 RADIUS
HA or FA  IP address          ----->    NAS-IP
HA or FA FQDN if availabe   ----->    NAS-ID

So, it will be?

HA or FA  IP address          ----->    HA-IP or FA-IP
HA or FA FQDN if availabe   ----->    HA-ID or FA-ID

Kent

At 04:32 PM 4/6/2005 -0400, Chowdhury, Kuntal wrote:
Content-class: urn:content-classes:message
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
        boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C53AE7.D0FC63EC"

Kent,
 
In your scenario the HA should set the NAS-IP address to 10.1.0.1. The HA address (10.10.0.1) from the RRQ can be put into the HA-IP address AVP. The HA address extracted from the RRQ should always be sent in a separate AVP from the NAS-IP address AVP, since there is no guarantee that the interface address of the NAS that is used to communicate with the AAA is same as it's HA address.
 
-Kuntal
-----Original Message-----
From: Kent Leung [mailto:kleung@cisco.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 3:11 PM
To: Avi Lior
Cc: Avi Lior; Nakhjiri Madjid-MNAKHJI1; Nakhjiri Madjid-MNAKHJI1; Chowdhury, Kuntal; Mobile IPv4 Mailing List; Avi Lior
Subject: RE: [Mip4] draft on RADIUS support for Mobile IP
At 02:56 PM 4/6/2005 -0400, Avi Lior wrote:
<snip>
HoA   if available will be placed in  HoA-IP attribute
 


HoA in the absence of NAI will be placed in the UserName,
as the HoA is the MN identifier (username) to the RADIUS server
in this case.  I'm not sure if HoA should also be placed in
the HoA-IP AVP as well?
[Avi] Actually why do you need the HOA in the UserName?
 


Just wondering how the MN is going to be identified for authentication
without UserName?  I thought typically this is the attribute used to
lookup the authentication key in the RADIUS server.

When NAI is present, HoA will be placed in the HoA-IP AVP.





We can say:
AAA can route over any of these attribute and other attributes as well.  However, for general roaming NAI SHOULD be available and placed in the UserName.
Device   acting as NAS                 RADIUS
HA or FA  IP address          ----->    NAS-IP
HA or FA FQDN if availabe   ----->    NAS-ID
I am assuming HA or FA NAI is really the FQDN and that belongs in the NAS-ID attribute in RADIUS.
I would like a clarification.

[Avi] I need to understand what you are saying.


Sure, I'm not clear which part is confusing or unclear.  Maybe the entire thought
process? :)

Is it expected that the HA field in the RRQ/RRP is the same as the NAS IP address?
What happens when HA field is set to all 1s or 0s?

Here is an example to highlight the issue.

There is a box that does both PPP termination and Mobile IP.

For PPP sessions, the NAS will set the NAS-IP-Address to the interface's
IP address (10.1.0.1) that is used to send the Access-Req to the RADIUS server. 
The RADIUS server authenticates the Access-Req from the NAS, which is
identified by the NAS-IP-Address.

For Mobile IP, the box acts as HA.  MN sends RRQ to the HA with HA field
set to 10.10.0.1.  HA creates the Access-Req with NAS-IP-Address before
sending to RADIUS server.  Which IP address should HA set, egress
interface (10.1.0.1) or HA address (10.10.0.1)?

The RADIUS server has a shared secret with the RADIUS client 10.1.0.1.
If NAS-IP-Address is 10.10.0.1, the RADIUS server would not be able to
authenticate the Access-Req and drop this message.

There's a shared secret (AAA-Key) between NAS (IP address A) and RADIUS server.
 
The HA (NAS) processes registration with HA field set to IP address B.  So we
expect that A = B in all cases?

Currently, I'm not sure if there's any reason for A != B.  Unless someone
comes up with a practical scenario, I'm fine with this.

 As for FQDN, RFC 3846 defines the HA NAI.  The NAI format would need to
be mapped to FQDN.  Excerpt from spec:

   "It contains the NAI of the HA in the form hostname@realm.  Together the
   hostname and realm form the complete FQDN (hostname.realm) of the HA."
[Avi] Actually, Kent, the definition of 3846 is okay.  It will fit in the NAS-Identifier attribute just fine.  NAS-Identifier can have any value as long as we know what the format is. So we can convert it to a FQDN or just leave it as is.

OK.  I thought your mention of FQDN in the NAS-ID meant that the AVP restricted
the format to only FQDN.  Sounds like as long as RADIUS server can figure out the
format, we're fine.

Kent

--
     |           |                   Kent Leung
    :|:         :|:                  IP Mobility Development
   :|||:       :|||:                 Internet Technologies Division
  :|||||||:   :|||||||:              Voice: 408.526.5030
.:|||||||||:.:|||||||||:.             Fax:   408.525.1653
 c i s c o S y s t e m s             Email: kleung@cisco.com

--
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--
     |           |                   Kent Leung
    :|:         :|:                  IP Mobility Development
   :|||:       :|||:                 Internet Technologies Division
  :|||||||:   :|||||||:              Voice: 408.526.5030
.:|||||||||:.:|||||||||:.             Fax:   408.525.1653
 c i s c o S y s t e m s             Email: kleung@cisco.com --=====================_71763780==_.ALT-- --===============0901031613== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -- Mip4 mailing list: Mip4@ietf.org Web interface: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip4 Charter page: http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/mip4-charter.html Supplemental site: http://www.mip4.org/ --===============0901031613==-- From mip4-bounces@ietf.org Wed Apr 6 17:47:58 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA08032 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 17:47:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DJIVw-00085J-3Q for mip4-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 06 Apr 2005 17:56:44 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DJINC-0000pi-Rz; Wed, 06 Apr 2005 17:47:42 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DJINB-0000o4-RI for mip4@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 06 Apr 2005 17:47:41 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA08011 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 17:47:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.140]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DJIVb-00084C-Py for mip4@ietf.org; Wed, 06 Apr 2005 17:56:24 -0400 Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com (144.254.224.150) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 06 Apr 2005 23:47:33 +0200 Received: from mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com (IDENT:mirapoint@mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com [171.71.163.14]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j36LlQt5022181; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 23:47:27 +0200 (MEST) Received: from kleung-w2k01.cisco.com (sjc-vpn5-280.cisco.com [10.21.89.24]) by mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com (MOS 3.4.5-GR) with ESMTP id BDS38683; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 14:43:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20050406141553.03e320d0@mira-sjcm-2.cisco.com> X-Sender: kleung@mira-sjcm-2.cisco.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2005 14:18:32 -0700 To: "Chowdhury, Kuntal" From: Kent Leung Subject: RE: [Mip4] draft on RADIUS support for Mobile IP In-Reply-To: <8A16DAD84432534FBFC19FD92B50512F03411AE5@ames.starentnetwo rks.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Scan-Signature: df1883a27a831c1ea5e8cfe5eb3ad38e Cc: Nakhjiri Madjid-MNAKHJI1 , Mobile IPv4 Mailing List , Avi Lior X-BeenThere: mip4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobility for IPv4 List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1952708413==" Sender: mip4-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip4-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 06d29b9b22258f4f07fe89b4d4a05a86 --===============1952708413== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_73262145==_.ALT" --=====================_73262145==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Hi Kuntal. If it's agreed on that the NAS-IP-Address and the HA address may not be the same, we need to fix the following. Device acting as NAS RADIUS HA or FA IP address -----> NAS-IP HA or FA FQDN if availabe -----> NAS-ID So, it will be? HA or FA IP address -----> HA-IP or FA-IP HA or FA FQDN if availabe -----> HA-ID or FA-ID Kent At 04:32 PM 4/6/2005 -0400, Chowdhury, Kuntal wrote: >Content-class: urn:content-classes:message >Content-Type: multipart/alternative; > boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C53AE7.D0FC63EC" > >Kent, > >In your scenario the HA should set the NAS-IP address to 10.1.0.1. The HA >address (10.10.0.1) from the RRQ can be put into the HA-IP address AVP. >The HA address extracted from the RRQ should always be sent in a separate >AVP from the NAS-IP address AVP, since there is no guarantee that the >interface address of the NAS that is used to communicate with the AAA is >same as it's HA address. > >-Kuntal >-----Original Message----- >From: Kent Leung [mailto:kleung@cisco.com] >Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 3:11 PM >To: Avi Lior >Cc: Avi Lior; Nakhjiri Madjid-MNAKHJI1; Nakhjiri Madjid-MNAKHJI1; >Chowdhury, Kuntal; Mobile IPv4 Mailing List; Avi Lior >Subject: RE: [Mip4] draft on RADIUS support for Mobile IP > >At 02:56 PM 4/6/2005 -0400, Avi Lior wrote: > >>>HoA if available will be placed in HoA-IP attribute >>> >> >> >>HoA in the absence of NAI will be placed in the UserName, >>as the HoA is the MN identifier (username) to the RADIUS server >>in this case. I'm not sure if HoA should also be placed in >>the HoA-IP AVP as well? >>[Avi] Actually why do you need the HOA in the UserName? >> > > > >Just wondering how the MN is going to be identified for authentication >without UserName? I thought typically this is the attribute used to >lookup the authentication key in the RADIUS server. > >>When NAI is present, HoA will be placed in the HoA-IP AVP. >> >> >> >> >> >>>We can say: >>>AAA can route over any of these attribute and other attributes as >>>well. However, for general roaming NAI SHOULD be available and placed >>>in the UserName. >>>Device acting as NAS RADIUS >>>HA or FA IP address -----> NAS-IP >>>HA or FA FQDN if availabe -----> NAS-ID >>>I am assuming HA or FA NAI is really the FQDN and that belongs in the >>>NAS-ID attribute in RADIUS. >>I would like a clarification. >> >>[Avi] I need to understand what you are saying. > > >Sure, I'm not clear which part is confusing or unclear. Maybe the entire >thought >process? :) > >Is it expected that the HA field in the RRQ/RRP is the same as the NAS IP >address? >What happens when HA field is set to all 1s or 0s? > >Here is an example to highlight the issue. > >There is a box that does both PPP termination and Mobile IP. > >For PPP sessions, the NAS will set the NAS-IP-Address to the interface's >IP address (10.1.0.1) that is used to send the Access-Req to the RADIUS >server. >The RADIUS server authenticates the Access-Req from the NAS, which is >identified by the NAS-IP-Address. > >For Mobile IP, the box acts as HA. MN sends RRQ to the HA with HA field >set to 10.10.0.1. HA creates the Access-Req with NAS-IP-Address before >sending to RADIUS server. Which IP address should HA set, egress >interface (10.1.0.1) or HA address (10.10.0.1)? > >The RADIUS server has a shared secret with the RADIUS client 10.1.0.1. >If NAS-IP-Address is 10.10.0.1, the RADIUS server would not be able to >authenticate the Access-Req and drop this message. > >>There's a shared secret (AAA-Key) between NAS (IP address A) and RADIUS >>server. >> >>The HA (NAS) processes registration with HA field set to IP address >>B. So we >>expect that A = B in all cases? >> >>Currently, I'm not sure if there's any reason for A != B. Unless someone >>comes up with a practical scenario, I'm fine with this. >> >> As for FQDN, RFC 3846 defines the HA NAI. The NAI format would need to >>be mapped to FQDN. Excerpt from spec: >> >> "It contains the NAI of the HA in the form hostname@realm. Together the >> hostname and realm form the complete FQDN (hostname.realm) of the HA." >>[Avi] Actually, Kent, the definition of 3846 is okay. It will fit in the >>NAS-Identifier attribute just fine. NAS-Identifier can have any value as >>long as we know what the format is. So we can convert it to a FQDN or >>just leave it as is. > >OK. I thought your mention of FQDN in the NAS-ID meant that the AVP >restricted >the format to only FQDN. Sounds like as long as RADIUS server can figure >out the >format, we're fine. > >Kent > >-- > | | Kent Leung > :|: :|: IP Mobility Development > :|||: :|||: Internet Technologies Division > :|||||||: :|||||||: Voice: 408.526.5030 >.:|||||||||:.:|||||||||:. Fax: 408.525.1653 > c i s c o S y s t e m s Email: kleung@cisco.com > >-- >Mip4 mailing list: Mip4@ietf.org > Web interface: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip4 > Charter page: http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/mip4-charter.html >Supplemental site: http://www.mip4.org/ -- | | Kent Leung :|: :|: IP Mobility Development :|||: :|||: Internet Technologies Division :|||||||: :|||||||: Voice: 408.526.5030 .:|||||||||:.:|||||||||:. Fax: 408.525.1653 c i s c o S y s t e m s Email: kleung@cisco.com --=====================_73262145==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Hi Kuntal.  If it's agreed on that the NAS-IP-Address and the HA address may
not be the same, we need to fix the following.

Device   acting as NAS                 RADIUS
HA or FA  IP address          ----->    NAS-IP
HA or FA FQDN if availabe   ----->    NAS-ID

So, it will be?

HA or FA  IP address          ----->    HA-IP or FA-IP
HA or FA FQDN if availabe   ----->    HA-ID or FA-ID

Kent

At 04:32 PM 4/6/2005 -0400, Chowdhury, Kuntal wrote:
Content-class: urn:content-classes:message
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
        boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C53AE7.D0FC63EC"

Kent,
 
In your scenario the HA should set the NAS-IP address to 10.1.0.1. The HA address (10.10.0.1) from the RRQ can be put into the HA-IP address AVP. The HA address extracted from the RRQ should always be sent in a separate AVP from the NAS-IP address AVP, since there is no guarantee that the interface address of the NAS that is used to communicate with the AAA is same as it's HA address.
 
-Kuntal
-----Original Message-----
From: Kent Leung [mailto:kleung@cisco.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 3:11 PM
To: Avi Lior
Cc: Avi Lior; Nakhjiri Madjid-MNAKHJI1; Nakhjiri Madjid-MNAKHJI1; Chowdhury, Kuntal; Mobile IPv4 Mailing List; Avi Lior
Subject: RE: [Mip4] draft on RADIUS support for Mobile IP
At 02:56 PM 4/6/2005 -0400, Avi Lior wrote:
<snip>
HoA   if available will be placed in  HoA-IP attribute
 


HoA in the absence of NAI will be placed in the UserName,
as the HoA is the MN identifier (username) to the RADIUS server
in this case.  I'm not sure if HoA should also be placed in
the HoA-IP AVP as well?
[Avi] Actually why do you need the HOA in the UserName?
 


Just wondering how the MN is going to be identified for authentication
without UserName?  I thought typically this is the attribute used to
lookup the authentication key in the RADIUS server.

When NAI is present, HoA will be placed in the HoA-IP AVP.





We can say:
AAA can route over any of these attribute and other attributes as well.  However, for general roaming NAI SHOULD be available and placed in the UserName.
Device   acting as NAS                 RADIUS
HA or FA  IP address          ----->    NAS-IP
HA or FA FQDN if availabe   ----->    NAS-ID
I am assuming HA or FA NAI is really the FQDN and that belongs in the NAS-ID attribute in RADIUS.
I would like a clarification.

[Avi] I need to understand what you are saying.


Sure, I'm not clear which part is confusing or unclear.  Maybe the entire thought
process? :)

Is it expected that the HA field in the RRQ/RRP is the same as the NAS IP address?
What happens when HA field is set to all 1s or 0s?

Here is an example to highlight the issue.

There is a box that does both PPP termination and Mobile IP.

For PPP sessions, the NAS will set the NAS-IP-Address to the interface's
IP address (10.1.0.1) that is used to send the Access-Req to the RADIUS server. 
The RADIUS server authenticates the Access-Req from the NAS, which is
identified by the NAS-IP-Address.

For Mobile IP, the box acts as HA.  MN sends RRQ to the HA with HA field
set to 10.10.0.1.  HA creates the Access-Req with NAS-IP-Address before
sending to RADIUS server.  Which IP address should HA set, egress
interface (10.1.0.1) or HA address (10.10.0.1)?

The RADIUS server has a shared secret with the RADIUS client 10.1.0.1.
If NAS-IP-Address is 10.10.0.1, the RADIUS server would not be able to
authenticate the Access-Req and drop this message.

There's a shared secret (AAA-Key) between NAS (IP address A) and RADIUS server.
 
The HA (NAS) processes registration with HA field set to IP address B.  So we
expect that A = B in all cases?

Currently, I'm not sure if there's any reason for A != B.  Unless someone
comes up with a practical scenario, I'm fine with this.

 As for FQDN, RFC 3846 defines the HA NAI.  The NAI format would need to
be mapped to FQDN.  Excerpt from spec:

   "It contains the NAI of the HA in the form hostname@realm.  Together the
   hostname and realm form the complete FQDN (hostname.realm) of the HA."
[Avi] Actually, Kent, the definition of 3846 is okay.  It will fit in the NAS-Identifier attribute just fine.  NAS-Identifier can have any value as long as we know what the format is. So we can convert it to a FQDN or just leave it as is.

OK.  I thought your mention of FQDN in the NAS-ID meant that the AVP restricted
the format to only FQDN.  Sounds like as long as RADIUS server can figure out the
format, we're fine.

Kent

--
     |           |                   Kent Leung
    :|:         :|:                  IP Mobility Development
   :|||:       :|||:                 Internet Technologies Division
  :|||||||:   :|||||||:              Voice: 408.526.5030
.:|||||||||:.:|||||||||:.             Fax:   408.525.1653
 c i s c o S y s t e m s             Email: kleung@cisco.com

--
Mip4 mailing list: Mip4@ietf.org
    Web interface: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip4
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--
     |           |                   Kent Leung
    :|:         :|:                  IP Mobility Development
   :|||:       :|||:                 Internet Technologies Division
  :|||||||:   :|||||||:              Voice: 408.526.5030
.:|||||||||:.:|||||||||:.             Fax:   408.525.1653
 c i s c o S y s t e m s             Email: kleung@cisco.com --=====================_73262145==_.ALT-- --===============1952708413== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -- Mip4 mailing list: Mip4@ietf.org Web interface: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip4 Charter page: http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/mip4-charter.html Supplemental site: http://www.mip4.org/ --===============1952708413==-- From mip4-bounces@ietf.org Wed Apr 6 17:48:40 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA08094 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 17:48:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DJIWc-00086J-0y for mip4-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 06 Apr 2005 17:57:26 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DJINv-0001c0-OF; Wed, 06 Apr 2005 17:48:27 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DJINt-0001UT-Dz for mip4@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 06 Apr 2005 17:48:25 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA08076 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 17:48:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from motgate7.mot.com ([129.188.136.7]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DJIWJ-00085m-Kt for mip4@ietf.org; Wed, 06 Apr 2005 17:57:08 -0400 Received: from il06exr04.mot.com (il06exr04.mot.com [129.188.137.134]) by motgate7.mot.com (Motorola/Motgate7) with ESMTP id j36Lbh73007073 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 14:37:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from il27exm03.cig.mot.com (il27exm03.cig.mot.com [10.17.193.4]) by il06exr04.mot.com (8.13.1/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j36LnwvY023498 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 16:49:58 -0500 (CDT) Received: by il27exm03.cig.mot.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 16:48:22 -0500 Message-ID: From: Nakhjiri Madjid-MNAKHJI1 To: "'Kent Leung'" , Avi Lior Subject: RE: [Mip4] draft on RADIUS support for Mobile IP Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 16:48:21 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) X-Spam-Score: 2.1 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 8da0cbf8c1eef8eab03772f2044efec0 Cc: "Chowdhury, Kuntal" , Mobile IPv4 Mailing List , Avi Lior X-BeenThere: mip4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobility for IPv4 List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0116819320==" Sender: mip4-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip4-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 2.1 (++) X-Scan-Signature: c8611c7316981838cbe4195d07ac7fdb This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --===============0116819320== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C53AF2.5A2A7546" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C53AF2.5A2A7546 Content-Type: text/plain I agree with Kent here, there is an issue with an HoA IP attribute. consider the case, where you have HoA, but not NAI. HA includes HoA in HoA IP attributes, but sends an empty user name attribute. How does RADIUS server locates and authenticates the user? I would say you stick whatever you have (HoA or NAI) in the user-name. Seems that MIP RFC rules out having both HoA and NAI. I wonder whether we could modify the RFC so that the MN can send NAI even if it has an HoA. On the HA ingress and egress address, I think the ingress should be included in HA IP address (from the RRQ) and egress should be included in the NAS-IP address so that the RADIUS server could locate the shared secret. Why would the RADIUS server care about the HA IP being different from NAS IP? As long as the RADIUS server can make sure both IP addresses belong to the same device (how I don't know) it could encrypt the MN-HA key (based on HA IP ) with RADIUS-NAS key (based on NAS IP). If the RADIUS can't make sure NAS and HA are the same device, the NAS-HA security is not RADIUS problem anyway. I am still not sure about why the interfaces are different though, but with the solution above we should be fine. I think this is just complicating the matter to an impractical level. Madjid -----Original Message----- From: Kent Leung [mailto:kleung@cisco.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 3:11 PM To: Avi Lior Cc: Avi Lior; Nakhjiri Madjid-MNAKHJI1; Nakhjiri Madjid-MNAKHJI1; Chowdhury, Kuntal; Mobile IPv4 Mailing List; Avi Lior Subject: RE: [Mip4] draft on RADIUS support for Mobile IP At 02:56 PM 4/6/2005 -0400, Avi Lior wrote: HoA if available will be placed in HoA-IP attribute HoA in the absence of NAI will be placed in the UserName, as the HoA is the MN identifier (username) to the RADIUS server in this case. I'm not sure if HoA should also be placed in the HoA-IP AVP as well? [Avi] Actually why do you need the HOA in the UserName? Just wondering how the MN is going to be identified for authentication without UserName? I thought typically this is the attribute used to lookup the authentication key in the RADIUS server. When NAI is present, HoA will be placed in the HoA-IP AVP. We can say: AAA can route over any of these attribute and other attributes as well. However, for general roaming NAI SHOULD be available and placed in the UserName. Device acting as NAS RADIUS HA or FA IP address -----> NAS-IP HA or FA FQDN if availabe -----> NAS-ID I am assuming HA or FA NAI is really the FQDN and that belongs in the NAS-ID attribute in RADIUS. I would like a clarification. [Avi] I need to understand what you are saying. Sure, I'm not clear which part is confusing or unclear. Maybe the entire thought process? :) Is it expected that the HA field in the RRQ/RRP is the same as the NAS IP address? What happens when HA field is set to all 1s or 0s? Here is an example to highlight the issue. There is a box that does both PPP termination and Mobile IP. For PPP sessions, the NAS will set the NAS-IP-Address to the interface's IP address (10.1.0.1) that is used to send the Access-Req to the RADIUS server. The RADIUS server authenticates the Access-Req from the NAS, which is identified by the NAS-IP-Address. For Mobile IP, the box acts as HA. MN sends RRQ to the HA with HA field set to 10.10.0.1. HA creates the Access-Req with NAS-IP-Address before sending to RADIUS server. Which IP address should HA set, egress interface (10.1.0.1) or HA address (10.10.0.1)? The RADIUS server has a shared secret with the RADIUS client 10.1.0.1. If NAS-IP-Address is 10.10.0.1, the RADIUS server would not be able to authenticate the Access-Req and drop this message. There's a shared secret (AAA-Key) between NAS (IP address A) and RADIUS server. The HA (NAS) processes registration with HA field set to IP address B. So we expect that A = B in all cases? Currently, I'm not sure if there's any reason for A != B. Unless someone comes up with a practical scenario, I'm fine with this. As for FQDN, RFC 3846 defines the HA NAI. The NAI format would need to be mapped to FQDN. Excerpt from spec: "It contains the NAI of the HA in the form hostname@realm. Together the hostname and realm form the complete FQDN (hostname.realm) of the HA." [Avi] Actually, Kent, the definition of 3846 is okay. It will fit in the NAS-Identifier attribute just fine. NAS-Identifier can have any value as long as we know what the format is. So we can convert it to a FQDN or just leave it as is. OK. I thought your mention of FQDN in the NAS-ID meant that the AVP restricted the format to only FQDN. Sounds like as long as RADIUS server can figure out the format, we're fine. Kent -- | | Kent Leung :|: :|: IP Mobility Development :|||: :|||: Internet Technologies Division :|||||||: :|||||||: Voice: 408.526.5030 .:|||||||||:.:|||||||||:. 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([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DJIPI-0002cF-6a; Wed, 06 Apr 2005 17:49:52 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DJIPE-0002af-RV for mip4@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 06 Apr 2005 17:49:50 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA08170 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 17:49:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from motgate8.mot.com ([129.188.136.8]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DJIXe-00088N-Vp for mip4@ietf.org; Wed, 06 Apr 2005 17:58:31 -0400 Received: from az33exr04.mot.com (az33exr04.mot.com [10.64.251.234]) by motgate8.mot.com (Motorola/Motgate8) with ESMTP id j36Lq724011785 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 14:52:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from il27exm03.cig.mot.com (il27exm03.cig.mot.com [10.17.193.4]) by az33exr04.mot.com (8.13.1/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j36Lot5n000886 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 16:51:01 -0500 (CDT) Received: by il27exm03.cig.mot.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 16:49:39 -0500 Message-ID: From: Nakhjiri Madjid-MNAKHJI1 To: "'Chowdhury, Kuntal'" , Kent Leung , Avi Lior Subject: RE: [Mip4] draft on RADIUS support for Mobile IP Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 16:49:38 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) X-Spam-Score: 2.1 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 28dc73ba51024f450a593b05aa945739 Cc: Mobile IPv4 Mailing List , Avi Lior X-BeenThere: mip4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobility for IPv4 List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1182362167==" Sender: mip4-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip4-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 2.4 (++) X-Scan-Signature: c375f2012a4f820b0c0fd6fb14a28357 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --===============1182362167== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C53AF2.7D0414D2" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C53AF2.7D0414D2 Content-Type: text/plain There you go, exact same suggestion. Thanks Kuntal. -----Original Message----- From: Chowdhury, Kuntal [mailto:kchowdhury@starentnetworks.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 3:33 PM To: Kent Leung; Avi Lior Cc: Avi Lior; Nakhjiri Madjid-MNAKHJI1; Nakhjiri Madjid-MNAKHJI1; Mobile IPv4 Mailing List; Avi Lior Subject: RE: [Mip4] draft on RADIUS support for Mobile IP Kent, In your scenario the HA should set the NAS-IP address to 10.1.0.1. The HA address (10.10.0.1) from the RRQ can be put into the HA-IP address AVP. The HA address extracted from the RRQ should always be sent in a separate AVP from the NAS-IP address AVP, since there is no guarantee that the interface address of the NAS that is used to communicate with the AAA is same as it's HA address. -Kuntal -----Original Message----- From: Kent Leung [mailto:kleung@cisco.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 3:11 PM To: Avi Lior Cc: Avi Lior; Nakhjiri Madjid-MNAKHJI1; Nakhjiri Madjid-MNAKHJI1; Chowdhury, Kuntal; Mobile IPv4 Mailing List; Avi Lior Subject: RE: [Mip4] draft on RADIUS support for Mobile IP At 02:56 PM 4/6/2005 -0400, Avi Lior wrote: HoA if available will be placed in HoA-IP attribute HoA in the absence of NAI will be placed in the UserName, as the HoA is the MN identifier (username) to the RADIUS server in this case. I'm not sure if HoA should also be placed in the HoA-IP AVP as well? [Avi] Actually why do you need the HOA in the UserName? Just wondering how the MN is going to be identified for authentication without UserName? I thought typically this is the attribute used to lookup the authentication key in the RADIUS server. When NAI is present, HoA will be placed in the HoA-IP AVP. We can say: AAA can route over any of these attribute and other attributes as well. However, for general roaming NAI SHOULD be available and placed in the UserName. Device acting as NAS RADIUS HA or FA IP address -----> NAS-IP HA or FA FQDN if availabe -----> NAS-ID I am assuming HA or FA NAI is really the FQDN and that belongs in the NAS-ID attribute in RADIUS. I would like a clarification. [Avi] I need to understand what you are saying. Sure, I'm not clear which part is confusing or unclear. Maybe the entire thought process? :) Is it expected that the HA field in the RRQ/RRP is the same as the NAS IP address? What happens when HA field is set to all 1s or 0s? Here is an example to highlight the issue. There is a box that does both PPP termination and Mobile IP. For PPP sessions, the NAS will set the NAS-IP-Address to the interface's IP address (10.1.0.1) that is used to send the Access-Req to the RADIUS server. The RADIUS server authenticates the Access-Req from the NAS, which is identified by the NAS-IP-Address. For Mobile IP, the box acts as HA. MN sends RRQ to the HA with HA field set to 10.10.0.1. HA creates the Access-Req with NAS-IP-Address before sending to RADIUS server. Which IP address should HA set, egress interface (10.1.0.1) or HA address (10.10.0.1)? The RADIUS server has a shared secret with the RADIUS client 10.1.0.1. If NAS-IP-Address is 10.10.0.1, the RADIUS server would not be able to authenticate the Access-Req and drop this message. There's a shared secret (AAA-Key) between NAS (IP address A) and RADIUS server. The HA (NAS) processes registration with HA field set to IP address B. So we expect that A = B in all cases? Currently, I'm not sure if there's any reason for A != B. Unless someone comes up with a practical scenario, I'm fine with this. As for FQDN, RFC 3846 defines the HA NAI. The NAI format would need to be mapped to FQDN. Excerpt from spec: "It contains the NAI of the HA in the form hostname@realm. Together the hostname and realm form the complete FQDN (hostname.realm) of the HA." [Avi] Actually, Kent, the definition of 3846 is okay. It will fit in the NAS-Identifier attribute just fine. NAS-Identifier can have any value as long as we know what the format is. So we can convert it to a FQDN or just leave it as is. OK. I thought your mention of FQDN in the NAS-ID meant that the AVP restricted the format to only FQDN. Sounds like as long as RADIUS server can figure out the format, we're fine. Kent -- | | Kent Leung :|: :|: IP Mobility Development :|||: :|||: Internet Technologies Division :|||||||: :|||||||: Voice: 408.526.5030 .:|||||||||:.:|||||||||:. 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http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/mip4-charter.html Supplemental site: http://www.mip4.org/ --===============1182362167==-- From mip4-bounces@ietf.org Wed Apr 6 18:10:37 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA10634 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 18:10:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DJIrq-0000Cp-US for mip4-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 06 Apr 2005 18:19:23 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DJIhI-00059o-34; Wed, 06 Apr 2005 18:08:28 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DJIhF-00059j-KH for mip4@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 06 Apr 2005 18:08:25 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA10332 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 18:08:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bws14.bridgewatersystems.com ([216.113.7.14]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DJIpf-00009y-L1 for mip4@ietf.org; Wed, 06 Apr 2005 18:17:08 -0400 Received: by exch01.bridgewatersys.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 18:08:15 -0400 Message-ID: From: Avi Lior To: "'Nakhjiri Madjid-MNAKHJI1'" , "'Kent Leung'" , Avi Lior Subject: RE: [Mip4] draft on RADIUS support for Mobile IP Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 18:08:04 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) X-Spam-Score: 0.4 (/) X-Scan-Signature: e9eeacd7fe925d5f7faae01ed8f85b97 Cc: "Chowdhury, Kuntal" , Mobile IPv4 Mailing List , Avi Lior X-BeenThere: mip4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobility for IPv4 List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2027812565==" Sender: mip4-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip4-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.4 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 08868c2bcdb53bddcb7cc7e7cf96b038 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --===============2027812565== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C53AF5.1B1C1170" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C53AF5.1B1C1170 Content-Type: text/plain Hi Madjid, -----Original Message----- From: Nakhjiri Madjid-MNAKHJI1 [mailto:Madjid.Nakhjiri@motorola.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 5:48 PM To: 'Kent Leung'; Avi Lior Cc: Avi Lior; Chowdhury, Kuntal; Mobile IPv4 Mailing List; Avi Lior Subject: RE: [Mip4] draft on RADIUS support for Mobile IP consider the case, where you have HoA, but not NAI. HA includes HoA in HoA IP attributes, but sends an empty user name attribute. How does RADIUS server locates and authenticates the user? [Avi] RADIUS can use the HOA attribute to locate and authenticate the user!!! RADIUS can do that. If you look at the RAIDUS spec the User-Name is 0-1 2865 says the User-Name MUST be filled in if the username attribute is available. I would say you stick whatever you have (HoA or NAI) in the user-name. [Avi] Well I disagree. Since the HOA may be a non routable address and it would create probelms. Seems that MIP RFC rules out having both HoA and NAI. [Avi] BTW Can you show me which RFC says that.? [AVI] snip the rest.... Madjid -----Original Message----- From: Kent Leung [mailto:kleung@cisco.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 3:11 PM To: Avi Lior Cc: Avi Lior; Nakhjiri Madjid-MNAKHJI1; Nakhjiri Madjid-MNAKHJI1; Chowdhury, Kuntal; Mobile IPv4 Mailing List; Avi Lior Subject: RE: [Mip4] draft on RADIUS support for Mobile IP At 02:56 PM 4/6/2005 -0400, Avi Lior wrote: HoA if available will be placed in HoA-IP attribute HoA in the absence of NAI will be placed in the UserName, as the HoA is the MN identifier (username) to the RADIUS server in this case. I'm not sure if HoA should also be placed in the HoA-IP AVP as well? [Avi] Actually why do you need the HOA in the UserName? Just wondering how the MN is going to be identified for authentication without UserName? I thought typically this is the attribute used to lookup the authentication key in the RADIUS server. When NAI is present, HoA will be placed in the HoA-IP AVP. We can say: AAA can route over any of these attribute and other attributes as well. However, for general roaming NAI SHOULD be available and placed in the UserName. Device acting as NAS RADIUS HA or FA IP address -----> NAS-IP HA or FA FQDN if availabe -----> NAS-ID I am assuming HA or FA NAI is really the FQDN and that belongs in the NAS-ID attribute in RADIUS. I would like a clarification. [Avi] I need to understand what you are saying. Sure, I'm not clear which part is confusing or unclear. Maybe the entire thought process? :) Is it expected that the HA field in the RRQ/RRP is the same as the NAS IP address? What happens when HA field is set to all 1s or 0s? Here is an example to highlight the issue. There is a box that does both PPP termination and Mobile IP. For PPP sessions, the NAS will set the NAS-IP-Address to the interface's IP address (10.1.0.1) that is used to send the Access-Req to the RADIUS server. The RADIUS server authenticates the Access-Req from the NAS, which is identified by the NAS-IP-Address. For Mobile IP, the box acts as HA. MN sends RRQ to the HA with HA field set to 10.10.0.1. HA creates the Access-Req with NAS-IP-Address before sending to RADIUS server. Which IP address should HA set, egress interface (10.1.0.1) or HA address (10.10.0.1)? The RADIUS server has a shared secret with the RADIUS client 10.1.0.1. If NAS-IP-Address is 10.10.0.1, the RADIUS server would not be able to authenticate the Access-Req and drop this message. There's a shared secret (AAA-Key) between NAS (IP address A) and RADIUS server. The HA (NAS) processes registration with HA field set to IP address B. So we expect that A = B in all cases? Currently, I'm not sure if there's any reason for A != B. Unless someone comes up with a practical scenario, I'm fine with this. As for FQDN, RFC 3846 defines the HA NAI. The NAI format would need to be mapped to FQDN. Excerpt from spec: "It contains the NAI of the HA in the form hostname@realm. Together the hostname and realm form the complete FQDN (hostname.realm) of the HA." [Avi] Actually, Kent, the definition of 3846 is okay. It will fit in the NAS-Identifier attribute just fine. NAS-Identifier can have any value as long as we know what the format is. So we can convert it to a FQDN or just leave it as is. OK. I thought your mention of FQDN in the NAS-ID meant that the AVP restricted the format to only FQDN. Sounds like as long as RADIUS server can figure out the format, we're fine. Kent -- | | Kent Leung :|: :|: IP Mobility Development :|||: :|||: Internet Technologies Division :|||||||: :|||||||: Voice: 408.526.5030 .:|||||||||:.:|||||||||:. Fax: 408.525.1653 c i s c o S y s t e m s Email: kleung@cisco.com ------_=_NextPart_001_01C53AF5.1B1C1170 Content-Type: text/html Message
Hi Madjid,
-----Original Message-----
From: Nakhjiri Madjid-MNAKHJI1 [mailto:Madjid.Nakhjiri@motorola.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 5:48 PM
To: 'Kent Leung'; Avi Lior
Cc: Avi Lior; Chowdhury, Kuntal; Mobile IPv4 Mailing List; Avi Lior
Subject: RE: [Mip4] draft on RADIUS support for Mobile IP

 

<snip>

 

consider the case, where you have HoA, but not NAI.  

 HA includes HoA in HoA IP attributes, but sends an empty user name attribute.

How does RADIUS server locates and authenticates the user?
[Avi] RADIUS can use the HOA attribute to locate and authenticate the user!!!  RADIUS can do that. 

If you look at the RAIDUS spec the User-Name is 0-1 2865 says the User-Name MUST be filled in if the username attribute is available.

 

I would say you stick whatever you have (HoA or NAI) in the user-name.
[Avi] Well I disagree. Since the HOA may be a non routable address and it would create probelms. 

 Seems that MIP RFC rules out having both HoA and NAI.
[Avi] BTW Can you show me which RFC says that.?

 

[AVI] snip the rest....

 

Madjid

-----Original Message-----
From: Kent Leung [mailto:kleung@cisco.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 3:11 PM
To: Avi Lior
Cc: Avi Lior; Nakhjiri Madjid-MNAKHJI1; Nakhjiri Madjid-MNAKHJI1; Chowdhury, Kuntal; Mobile IPv4 Mailing List; Avi Lior
Subject: RE: [Mip4] draft on RADIUS support for Mobile IP

 

At 02:56 PM 4/6/2005 -0400, Avi Lior wrote:
<snip>

HoA   if available will be placed in  HoA-IP attribute

 

 

HoA in the absence of NAI will be placed in the UserName,

as the HoA is the MN identifier (username) to the RADIUS server

in this case.  I'm not sure if HoA should also be placed in

the HoA-IP AVP as well?

[Avi] Actually why do you need the HOA in the UserName?

 



Just wondering how the MN is going to be identified for authentication
without UserName?  I thought typically this is the attribute used to
lookup the authentication key in the RADIUS server.



When NAI is present, HoA will be placed in the HoA-IP AVP.




We can say:

AAA can route over any of these attribute and other attributes as well.  However, for general roaming NAI SHOULD be available and placed in the UserName.

 

Device   acting as NAS                 RADIUS

 

HA or FA  IP address          ----->    NAS-IP

HA or FA FQDN if availabe   ----->    NAS-ID

 

I am assuming HA or FA NAI is really the FQDN and that belongs in the NAS-ID attribute in RADIUS.

I would like a clarification.

[Avi] I need to understand what you are saying.



Sure, I'm not clear which part is confusing or unclear.  Maybe the entire thought
process? :)

Is it expected that the HA field in the RRQ/RRP is the same as the NAS IP address?
What happens when HA field is set to all 1s or 0s?

Here is an example to highlight the issue.

There is a box that does both PPP termination and Mobile IP.

For PPP sessions, the NAS will set the NAS-IP-Address to the interface's
IP address (10.1.0.1) that is used to send the Access-Req to the RADIUS server. 
The RADIUS server authenticates the Access-Req from the NAS, which is
identified by the NAS-IP-Address.

For Mobile IP, the box acts as HA.  MN sends RRQ to the HA with HA field
set to 10.10.0.1.  HA creates the Access-Req with NAS-IP-Address before
sending to RADIUS server.  Which IP address should HA set, egress
interface (10.1.0.1) or HA address (10.10.0.1)?

The RADIUS server has a shared secret with the RADIUS client 10.1.0.1.
If NAS-IP-Address is 10.10.0.1, the RADIUS server would not be able to
authenticate the Access-Req and drop this message.



There's a shared secret (AAA-Key) between NAS (IP address A) and RADIUS server.

 

The HA (NAS) processes registration with HA field set to IP address B.  So we

expect that A = B in all cases?

Currently, I'm not sure if there's any reason for A != B.  Unless someone

comes up with a practical scenario, I'm fine with this.

 

 As for FQDN, RFC 3846 defines the HA NAI.  The NAI format would need to

be mapped to FQDN.  Excerpt from spec:

   "It contains the NAI of the HA in the form hostname@realm.  Together the

   hostname and realm form the complete FQDN (hostname.realm) of the HA."

[Avi] Actually, Kent, the definition of 3846 is okay.  It will fit in the NAS-Identifier attribute just fine.  NAS-Identifier can have any value as long as we know what the format is. So we can convert it to a FQDN or just leave it as is.


OK.  I thought your mention of FQDN in the NAS-ID meant that the AVP restricted
the format to only FQDN.  Sounds like as long as RADIUS server can figure out the
format, we're fine.

Kent

--

     |           |                   Kent Leung

    :|:         :|:                  IP Mobility Development

   :|||:       :|||:                 Internet Technologies Division

  :|||||||:   :|||||||:              Voice: 408.526.5030

.:|||||||||:.:|||||||||:.             Fax:   408.525.1653

 c i s c o S y s t e m s             Email: kleung@cisco.com

------_=_NextPart_001_01C53AF5.1B1C1170-- --===============2027812565== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -- Mip4 mailing list: Mip4@ietf.org Web interface: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip4 Charter page: http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/mip4-charter.html Supplemental site: http://www.mip4.org/ --===============2027812565==-- From mip4-bounces@ietf.org Wed Apr 6 19:01:08 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA15208 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 19:01:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DJJek-0001JB-PP for mip4-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 06 Apr 2005 19:09:55 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DJJRg-0004sN-1j; Wed, 06 Apr 2005 18:56:24 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DJJRd-0004sB-T8 for mip4@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 06 Apr 2005 18:56:22 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA14912 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 18:56:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sj-iport-1-in.cisco.com ([171.71.176.70] helo=sj-iport-1.cisco.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DJJa4-0001Ci-WC for mip4@ietf.org; Wed, 06 Apr 2005 19:05:05 -0400 Received: from sj-core-2.cisco.com (171.71.177.254) by sj-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 06 Apr 2005 15:56:12 -0700 X-IronPort-AV: i="3.92,82,1112598000"; d="scan'208,217"; a="626393132:sNHT54893210" Received: from mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com (IDENT:mirapoint@mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com [171.71.163.14]) by sj-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id j36Mu5gE007882; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 15:56:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kleung-w2k01.cisco.com (sjc-vpn5-280.cisco.com [10.21.89.24]) by mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com (MOS 3.4.5-GR) with ESMTP id BDS46620; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 15:55:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20050406152151.03e328d0@mira-sjcm-2.cisco.com> X-Sender: kleung@mira-sjcm-2.cisco.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2005 15:51:02 -0700 To: Avi Lior From: Kent Leung Subject: RE: [Mip4] draft on RADIUS support for Mobile IP In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 21bf7a2f1643ae0bf20c1e010766eb78 Cc: "'Nakhjiri Madjid-MNAKHJI1'" , "Chowdhury, Kuntal" , Mobile IPv4 Mailing List , Avi Lior X-BeenThere: mip4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobility for IPv4 List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1249019799==" Sender: mip4-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip4-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ee80a2074afbfe28d15369f4e74e579d --===============1249019799== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_77581786==_.ALT" --=====================_77581786==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 06:08 PM 4/6/2005 -0400, Avi Lior wrote: > HA includes HoA in HoA IP attributes, but sends an empty user name > attribute. >How does RADIUS server locates and authenticates the user? >[Avi] RADIUS can use the HOA attribute to locate and authenticate the >user!!! RADIUS can do that. >If you look at the RAIDUS spec the User-Name is 0-1 2865 says the >User-Name MUST be filled in if the username attribute is available. KL> I correlate User-Name to the identifier of the user (MN) for authentication purpose. So it seems to make sense to put the HoA in the User-Name as the MN identifier. The RADIUS server doesn't need special processing such as looking for HoA AVP to look up key. That's the reason that I said _typically_ the User-Name identifies the user for authentication. Wondering why we can't populate User-Name with HoA? > >I would say you stick whatever you have (HoA or NAI) in the user-name. >[Avi] Well I disagree. Since the HOA may be a non routable address and it >would create probelms. KL> I thought that we agree to map MIP/RADIUS and let deployment deal with routing issues. So it is completely up to them to decide how to route such messages if that is ever needed. Other AVPs may be used for such logic. The User-Name should be just identifier of the MN which is the HoA when NAI is absent. > Seems that MIP RFC rules out having both HoA and NAI. >[Avi] BTW Can you show me which RFC says that.? > KL> Here are the cases of non-null NAI and non-zero HoA: - NAI and HoA (NAI in User-Name, HoA in HoA-IP) - NAI only (NAI in User-Name) - HoA only (HoA in User-Name) My recommendations in parentheses. :) The Access-Req is authenticated by the RADIUS server, which always looks up the user by the User-Name AVP. Kent -- | | Kent Leung :|: :|: IP Mobility Development :|||: :|||: Internet Technologies Division :|||||||: :|||||||: Voice: 408.526.5030 .:|||||||||:.:|||||||||:. Fax: 408.525.1653 c i s c o S y s t e m s Email: kleung@cisco.com --=====================_77581786==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" At 06:08 PM 4/6/2005 -0400, Avi Lior wrote:

 HA includes HoA in HoA IP attributes, but sends an empty user name attribute.
How does RADIUS server locates and authenticates the user?
[Avi] RADIUS can use the HOA attribute to locate and authenticate the user!!!  RADIUS can do that. 
If you look at the RAIDUS spec the User-Name is 0-1 2865 says the User-Name MUST be filled in if the username attribute is available.

KL> I correlate User-Name to the identifier of the user (MN) for authentication purpose.
So it seems to make sense to put the HoA in the User-Name as the MN identifier.  The
RADIUS server doesn't need special processing such as looking for HoA AVP to look
up key.  That's the reason that I said _typically_ the User-Name identifies the user for
authentication.  Wondering why we can't populate User-Name with HoA?

 
I would say you stick whatever you have (HoA or NAI) in the user-name.
[Avi] Well I disagree. Since the HOA may be a non routable address and it would create probelms.


KL> I thought that we agree to map MIP/RADIUS and let deployment deal with routing
issues.   So it is completely up to them to decide how to route such messages if that
is ever needed.  Other AVPs may be used for such logic.  The User-Name should be
just identifier of the MN which is the HoA when NAI is absent.

 Seems that MIP RFC rules out having both HoA and NAI.
[Avi] BTW Can you show me which RFC says that.?
 

KL>  Here are the cases of non-null NAI and non-zero HoA:

        - NAI and HoA (NAI in User-Name, HoA in HoA-IP)
        - NAI only (NAI in User-Name)
        - HoA only (HoA in User-Name)

My recommendations in parentheses. :)  The Access-Req is authenticated
by the RADIUS server, which always looks up the user by the User-Name AVP.

Kent

--
     |           |                   Kent Leung
    :|:         :|:                  IP Mobility Development
   :|||:       :|||:                 Internet Technologies Division
  :|||||||:   :|||||||:              Voice: 408.526.5030
.:|||||||||:.:|||||||||:.             Fax:   408.525.1653
 c i s c o S y s t e m s             Email: kleung@cisco.com --=====================_77581786==_.ALT-- --===============1249019799== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -- Mip4 mailing list: Mip4@ietf.org Web interface: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip4 Charter page: http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/mip4-charter.html Supplemental site: http://www.mip4.org/ --===============1249019799==-- From mip4-bounces@ietf.org Wed Apr 6 19:12:50 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA15890 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 19:12:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DJJq4-0001Wt-Mn for mip4-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 06 Apr 2005 19:21:37 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DJJgO-0000uw-Q6; Wed, 06 Apr 2005 19:11:36 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DJJgN-0000ud-Js for mip4@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 06 Apr 2005 19:11:35 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA15814 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 19:11:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bws14.bridgewatersystems.com ([216.113.7.14]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DJJoo-0001Ur-5b for mip4@ietf.org; Wed, 06 Apr 2005 19:20:19 -0400 Received: by exch01.bridgewatersys.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 19:11:25 -0400 Message-ID: From: Avi Lior To: "'Kent Leung'" , "Chowdhury, Kuntal" Subject: RE: [Mip4] draft on RADIUS support for Mobile IP Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 19:11:22 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) X-Spam-Score: 0.9 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 93ea548d5fde6eb89af31f1faab96344 Cc: Nakhjiri Madjid-MNAKHJI1 , Mobile IPv4 Mailing List , Avi Lior X-BeenThere: mip4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobility for IPv4 List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0051343647==" Sender: mip4-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip4-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.9 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7191030d885084e634ab0f488bcd9d53 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --===============0051343647== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C53AFD.F2936510" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C53AFD.F2936510 Content-Type: text/plain Let me summarize: I think the following should be the general mapping. When RADIUS Access-Request comes from HA: MN-NAI if available RADIUS User-Name HA-IP if available RADIUS HA-IP address HOA if available RADIUS HOA attribute. COA (FA-COA or CCOA) will be placed in COA attribute IP address of the RADIUS interface of the HA goes into the NAS-IP attribute and/or the NAS ID of the HA goes into the NAS-Identifier attribute Note: the RADIUS interface of the HA may or may not be the same as the HA-IP address. Now the case of Access-Request comes for FA: MN-NAI if available RADIUS User-Name HA-IP if available RADIUS HA-IP address COA goes into the COA. HOA if available RADIUS HOA attribute. IP address of the RADIUS interface of the FA goes into the NAS-IP attribute and/or the NAS ID of the FA goes into the NAS-Identifier attribute Note: the RADIUS interface of the FA may or may not be the same as the COA address. So if you look at the above you can probably match merge the table. Now if the NAI is missing etc and therefore the User-Name is empty we could add some text to instruct implementors what to put in the User-Name attribute. But note simply blindly putting in the HOA address will not work (as stated before). There are many possibilities for what you put in the UserName attribute. Thoughts on above? -----Original Message----- From: Kent Leung [mailto:kleung@cisco.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 5:19 PM To: Chowdhury, Kuntal Cc: Avi Lior; Nakhjiri Madjid-MNAKHJI1; Mobile IPv4 Mailing List; Avi Lior Subject: RE: [Mip4] draft on RADIUS support for Mobile IP Hi Kuntal. If it's agreed on that the NAS-IP-Address and the HA address may not be the same, we need to fix the following. Device acting as NAS RADIUS HA or FA IP address -----> NAS-IP HA or FA FQDN if availabe -----> NAS-ID So, it will be? HA or FA IP address -----> HA-IP or FA-IP HA or FA FQDN if availabe -----> HA-ID or FA-ID Kent At 04:32 PM 4/6/2005 -0400, Chowdhury, Kuntal wrote: Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C53AE7.D0FC63EC" Kent, In your scenario the HA should set the NAS-IP address to 10.1.0.1. The HA address (10.10.0.1) from the RRQ can be put into the HA-IP address AVP. The HA address extracted from the RRQ should always be sent in a separate AVP from the NAS-IP address AVP, since there is no guarantee that the interface address of the NAS that is used to communicate with the AAA is same as it's HA address. -Kuntal -----Original Message----- From: Kent Leung [mailto:kleung@cisco.com ] Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 3:11 PM To: Avi Lior Cc: Avi Lior; Nakhjiri Madjid-MNAKHJI1; Nakhjiri Madjid-MNAKHJI1; Chowdhury, Kuntal; Mobile IPv4 Mailing List; Avi Lior Subject: RE: [Mip4] draft on RADIUS support for Mobile IP At 02:56 PM 4/6/2005 -0400, Avi Lior wrote: HoA if available will be placed in HoA-IP attribute HoA in the absence of NAI will be placed in the UserName, as the HoA is the MN identifier (username) to the RADIUS server in this case. I'm not sure if HoA should also be placed in the HoA-IP AVP as well? [Avi] Actually why do you need the HOA in the UserName? Just wondering how the MN is going to be identified for authentication without UserName? I thought typically this is the attribute used to lookup the authentication key in the RADIUS server. When NAI is present, HoA will be placed in the HoA-IP AVP. We can say: AAA can route over any of these attribute and other attributes as well. However, for general roaming NAI SHOULD be available and placed in the UserName. Device acting as NAS RADIUS HA or FA IP address -----> NAS-IP HA or FA FQDN if availabe -----> NAS-ID I am assuming HA or FA NAI is really the FQDN and that belongs in the NAS-ID attribute in RADIUS. I would like a clarification. [Avi] I need to understand what you are saying. Sure, I'm not clear which part is confusing or unclear. Maybe the entire thought process? :) Is it expected that the HA field in the RRQ/RRP is the same as the NAS IP address? What happens when HA field is set to all 1s or 0s? Here is an example to highlight the issue. There is a box that does both PPP termination and Mobile IP. For PPP sessions, the NAS will set the NAS-IP-Address to the interface's IP address (10.1.0.1) that is used to send the Access-Req to the RADIUS server. The RADIUS server authenticates the Access-Req from the NAS, which is identified by the NAS-IP-Address. For Mobile IP, the box acts as HA. MN sends RRQ to the HA with HA field set to 10.10.0.1. HA creates the Access-Req with NAS-IP-Address before sending to RADIUS server. Which IP address should HA set, egress interface (10.1.0.1) or HA address (10.10.0.1)? The RADIUS server has a shared secret with the RADIUS client 10.1.0.1. If NAS-IP-Address is 10.10.0.1, the RADIUS server would not be able to authenticate the Access-Req and drop this message. There's a shared secret (AAA-Key) between NAS (IP address A) and RADIUS server. The HA (NAS) processes registration with HA field set to IP address B. So we expect that A = B in all cases? Currently, I'm not sure if there's any reason for A != B. Unless someone comes up with a practical scenario, I'm fine with this. As for FQDN, RFC 3846 defines the HA NAI. The NAI format would need to be mapped to FQDN. Excerpt from spec: "It contains the NAI of the HA in the form hostname@realm. Together the hostname and realm form the complete FQDN (hostname.realm) of the HA." [Avi] Actually, Kent, the definition of 3846 is okay. It will fit in the NAS-Identifier attribute just fine. NAS-Identifier can have any value as long as we know what the format is. So we can convert it to a FQDN or just leave it as is. OK. I thought your mention of FQDN in the NAS-ID meant that the AVP restricted the format to only FQDN. Sounds like as long as RADIUS server can figure out the format, we're fine. Kent -- | | Kent Leung :|: :|: IP Mobility Development :|||: :|||: Internet Technologies Division :|||||||: :|||||||: Voice: 408.526.5030 .:|||||||||:.:|||||||||:. Fax: 408.525.1653 c i s c o S y s t e m s Email: kleung@cisco.com -- Mip4 mailing list: Mip4@ietf.org Web interface: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip4 Charter page: http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/mip4-charter.html Supplemental site: http://www.mip4.org/ -- | | Kent Leung :|: :|: IP Mobility Development :|||: :|||: Internet Technologies Division :|||||||: :|||||||: Voice: 408.526.5030 .:|||||||||:.:|||||||||:. Fax: 408.525.1653 c i s c o S y s t e m s Email: kleung@cisco.com ------_=_NextPart_001_01C53AFD.F2936510 Content-Type: text/html Message
Let me summarize:
 
I think the following should be the general mapping.
 
When RADIUS Access-Request comes from HA:
 
MN-NAI  if available    RADIUS User-Name
HA-IP     if available    RADIUS HA-IP address
HOA      if available    RADIUS HOA attribute.
 
COA  (FA-COA or CCOA)     will be placed in  COA attribute
 
IP address of the RADIUS interface of the HA goes into the NAS-IP attribute
and/or the NAS ID of the HA goes into the NAS-Identifier attribute
 
Note: the RADIUS interface of the HA may or may not be the same as the HA-IP address.
 
Now the case of Access-Request comes for FA:
 
MN-NAI  if available    RADIUS User-Name
HA-IP     if available    RADIUS HA-IP address
COA      goes into the COA.
HOA      if available     RADIUS HOA attribute.
 
IP address of the RADIUS interface of the FA goes into the NAS-IP attribute
and/or the NAS ID of the FA goes into the NAS-Identifier attribute
 
Note: the RADIUS interface of the FA may or may not be the same as the COA address.
 
So if you look at the above you can probably match merge the table.
 
 
Now if the NAI is missing etc and therefore the User-Name is empty we could add some text to instruct implementors what to put in the User-Name attribute.  But note simply blindly putting in the HOA address will not work (as stated before).  There are many possibilities for what you put in the UserName attribute.
 
Thoughts on above?
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Kent Leung [mailto:kleung@cisco.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 5:19 PM
To: Chowdhury, Kuntal
Cc: Avi Lior; Nakhjiri Madjid-MNAKHJI1; Mobile IPv4 Mailing List; Avi Lior
Subject: RE: [Mip4] draft on RADIUS support for Mobile IP

Hi Kuntal.  If it's agreed on that the NAS-IP-Address and the HA address may
not be the same, we need to fix the following.

Device   acting as NAS                 RADIUS
HA or FA  IP address          ----->    NAS-IP
HA or FA FQDN if availabe   ----->    NAS-ID

So, it will be?

HA or FA  IP address          ----->    HA-IP or FA-IP
HA or FA FQDN if availabe   ----->    HA-ID or FA-ID

Kent

At 04:32 PM 4/6/2005 -0400, Chowdhury, Kuntal wrote:
Content-class: urn:content-classes:message
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
        boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C53AE7.D0FC63EC"

Kent,
 
In your scenario the HA should set the NAS-IP address to 10.1.0.1. The HA address (10.10.0.1) from the RRQ can be put into the HA-IP address AVP. The HA address extracted from the RRQ should always be sent in a separate AVP from the NAS-IP address AVP, since there is no guarantee that the interface address of the NAS that is used to communicate with the AAA is same as it's HA address.
 
-Kuntal
-----Original Message-----
From: Kent Leung [mailto:kleung@cisco.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 3:11 PM
To: Avi Lior
Cc: Avi Lior; Nakhjiri Madjid-MNAKHJI1; Nakhjiri Madjid-MNAKHJI1; Chowdhury, Kuntal; Mobile IPv4 Mailing List; Avi Lior
Subject: RE: [Mip4] draft on RADIUS support for Mobile IP
At 02:56 PM 4/6/2005 -0400, Avi Lior wrote:
<snip>
HoA   if available will be placed in  HoA-IP attribute


HoA in the absence of NAI will be placed in the UserName,
as the HoA is the MN identifier (username) to the RADIUS server
in this case.  I'm not sure if HoA should also be placed in
the HoA-IP AVP as well?
[Avi] Actually why do you need the HOA in the UserName?
 



Just wondering how the MN is going to be identified for authentication
without UserName?  I thought typically this is the attribute used to
lookup the authentication key in the RADIUS server.

When NAI is present, HoA will be placed in the HoA-IP AVP.





We can say:
AAA can route over any of these attribute and other attributes as well.  However, for general roaming NAI SHOULD be available and placed in the UserName.
Device   acting as NAS                 RADIUS
HA or FA  IP address          ----->    NAS-IP
HA or FA FQDN if availabe   ----->    NAS-ID
I am assuming HA or FA NAI is really the FQDN and that belongs in the NAS-ID attribute in RADIUS.
I would like a clarification.

[Avi] I need to understand what you are saying.


Sure, I'm not clear which part is confusing or unclear.  Maybe the entire thought
process? :)

Is it expected that the HA field in the RRQ/RRP is the same as the NAS IP address?
What happens when HA field is set to all 1s or 0s?

Here is an example to highlight the issue.

There is a box that does both PPP termination and Mobile IP.

For PPP sessions, the NAS will set the NAS-IP-Address to the interface's
IP address (10.1.0.1) that is used to send the Access-Req to the RADIUS server. 
The RADIUS server authenticates the Access-Req from the NAS, which is
identified by the NAS-IP-Address.

For Mobile IP, the box acts as HA.  MN sends RRQ to the HA with HA field
set to 10.10.0.1.  HA creates the Access-Req with NAS-IP-Address before
sending to RADIUS server.  Which IP address should HA set, egress
interface (10.1.0.1) or HA address (10.10.0.1)?

The RADIUS server has a shared secret with the RADIUS client 10.1.0.1.
If NAS-IP-Address is 10.10.0.1, the RADIUS server would not be able to
authenticate the Access-Req and drop this message.

There's a shared secret (AAA-Key) between NAS (IP address A) and RADIUS server.
 
The HA (NAS) processes registration with HA field set to IP address B.  So we
expect that A = B in all cases?

Currently, I'm not sure if there's any reason for A != B.  Unless someone
comes up with a practical scenario, I'm fine with this.

 As for FQDN, RFC 3846 defines the HA NAI.  The NAI format would need to
be mapped to FQDN.  Excerpt from spec:

   "It contains the NAI of the HA in the form hostname@realm.  Together the
   hostname and realm form the complete FQDN (hostname.realm) of the HA."
[Avi] Actually, Kent, the definition of 3846 is okay.  It will fit in the NAS-Identifier attribute just fine.  NAS-Identifier can have any value as long as we know what the format is. So we can convert it to a FQDN or just leave it as is.

OK.  I thought your mention of FQDN in the NAS-ID meant that the AVP restricted
the format to only FQDN.  Sounds like as long as RADIUS server can figure out the
format, we're fine.

Kent

--
     |           |                   Kent Leung
    :|:         :|:                  IP Mobility Development
   :|||:       :|||:                 Internet Technologies Division
  :|||||||:   :|||||||:              Voice: 408.526.5030
.:|||||||||:.:|||||||||:.             Fax:   408.525.1653
 c i s c o S y s t e m s             Email: kleung@cisco.com

--
Mip4 mailing list: Mip4@ietf.org
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     Charter page: http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/mip4-charter.html
Supplemental site: http://www.mip4.org/

--
     |           |                   Kent Leung
    :|:         :|:                  IP Mobility Development
   :|||:       :|||:                 Internet Technologies Division
  :|||||||:   :|||||||:              Voice: 408.526.5030
.:|||||||||:.:|||||||||:.             Fax:   408.525.1653
 c i s c o S y s t e m s             Email: kleung@cisco.com
------_=_NextPart_001_01C53AFD.F2936510-- --===============0051343647== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -- Mip4 mailing list: Mip4@ietf.org Web interface: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip4 Charter page: http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/mip4-charter.html Supplemental site: http://www.mip4.org/ --===============0051343647==-- From mip4-bounces@ietf.org Wed Apr 6 19:19:40 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA16344 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 19:19:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DJJwh-0001gT-A3 for mip4-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 06 Apr 2005 19:28:27 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DJJnY-00055Q-8y; Wed, 06 Apr 2005 19:19:00 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DJJnU-00055I-It for mip4@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 06 Apr 2005 19:18:58 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA16309 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 19:18:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bws14.bridgewatersystems.com ([216.113.7.14]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DJJvu-0001fT-Jq for mip4@ietf.org; Wed, 06 Apr 2005 19:27:40 -0400 Received: by exch01.bridgewatersys.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 19:18:45 -0400 Message-ID: From: Avi Lior To: "'Kent Leung'" , Avi Lior Subject: RE: [Mip4] draft on RADIUS support for Mobile IP Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 19:18:35 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Scan-Signature: f884eb1d4ec5a230688d7edc526ea665 Cc: "'Nakhjiri Madjid-MNAKHJI1'" , "Chowdhury, Kuntal" , Mobile IPv4 Mailing List , Avi Lior X-BeenThere: mip4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobility for IPv4 List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0584196809==" Sender: mip4-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip4-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Scan-Signature: a1f9797ba297220533cb8c3f4bc709a8 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --===============0584196809== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C53AFE.F52F7740" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C53AFE.F52F7740 Content-Type: text/plain Ken See inline: -----Original Message----- From: Kent Leung [mailto:kleung@cisco.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 6:51 PM To: Avi Lior Cc: 'Nakhjiri Madjid-MNAKHJI1'; Avi Lior; Avi Lior; Chowdhury, Kuntal; Mobile IPv4 Mailing List; Avi Lior Subject: RE: [Mip4] draft on RADIUS support for Mobile IP At 06:08 PM 4/6/2005 -0400, Avi Lior wrote: HA includes HoA in HoA IP attributes, but sends an empty user name attribute. How does RADIUS server locates and authenticates the user? [Avi] RADIUS can use the HOA attribute to locate and authenticate the user!!! RADIUS can do that. If you look at the RAIDUS spec the User-Name is 0-1 2865 says the User-Name MUST be filled in if the username attribute is available. KL> I correlate User-Name to the identifier of the user (MN) for authentication purpose. So it seems to make sense to put the HoA in the User-Name as the MN identifier. The RADIUS server doesn't need special processing such as looking for HoA AVP to look up key. That's the reason that I said _typically_ the User-Name identifies the user for authentication. Wondering why we can't populate User-Name with HoA? [Avi] What if the HOA is 10.10.10.10? How do we route the message? There maybe other things I can put in the Username to do the routing. But by saying put in the HOA when NAI is not there you are prohibiting me from putting what I really want in the Username (like for instance the HA-IP address). I would say you stick whatever you have (HoA or NAI) in the user-name. [Avi] Well I disagree. Since the HOA may be a non routable address and it would create probelms. KL> I thought that we agree to map MIP/RADIUS and let deployment deal with routing issues. So it is completely up to them to decide how to route such messages if that is ever needed. Other AVPs may be used for such logic. The User-Name should be just identifier of the MN which is the HoA when NAI is absent. [Avi] Great this is good. So the home network will then use HOA attribute to look up the user. RADIUS does this already. For example in EAP it knows to use the inner identity of EAP and not the UserName to lookup the user. Why are we creating a problem when one does not exists. Seems that MIP RFC rules out having both HoA and NAI. [Avi] BTW Can you show me which RFC says that.? KL> Here are the cases of non-null NAI and non-zero HoA: - NAI and HoA (NAI in User-Name, HoA in HoA-IP) - NAI only (NAI in User-Name) - HoA only (HoA in User-Name) My recommendations in parentheses. :) The Access-Req is authenticated by the RADIUS server, which always looks up the user by the User-Name AVP. [Avi] If you just put HOA in the HOA attribute then the above is nice and clean: NAI ----> User-Name HOA ----> HOA-Attribute Some text to suggest what happens with NAI is not available: Kent -- | | Kent Leung :|: :|: IP Mobility Development :|||: :|||: Internet Technologies Division :|||||||: :|||||||: Voice: 408.526.5030 .:|||||||||:.:|||||||||:. Fax: 408.525.1653 c i s c o S y s t e m s Email: kleung@cisco.com ------_=_NextPart_001_01C53AFE.F52F7740 Content-Type: text/html Message
Ken See inline:
-----Original Message-----
From: Kent Leung [mailto:kleung@cisco.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 6:51 PM
To: Avi Lior
Cc: 'Nakhjiri Madjid-MNAKHJI1'; Avi Lior; Avi Lior; Chowdhury, Kuntal; Mobile IPv4 Mailing List; Avi Lior
Subject: RE: [Mip4] draft on RADIUS support for Mobile IP

At 06:08 PM 4/6/2005 -0400, Avi Lior wrote:

 HA includes HoA in HoA IP attributes, but sends an empty user name attribute.
How does RADIUS server locates and authenticates the user?
[Avi] RADIUS can use the HOA attribute to locate and authenticate the user!!!  RADIUS can do that. 
If you look at the RAIDUS spec the User-Name is 0-1 2865 says the User-Name MUST be filled in if the username attribute is available.

KL> I correlate User-Name to the identifier of the user (MN) for authentication purpose.
So it seems to make sense to put the HoA in the User-Name as the MN identifier.  The
RADIUS server doesn't need special processing such as looking for HoA AVP to look
up key.  That's the reason that I said _typically_ the User-Name identifies the user for
authentication.  Wondering why we can't populate User-Name with HoA?
[Avi] What if the HOA is 10.10.10.10? How do we route the message?  There maybe other things I can put in the Username to do the routing.  But by saying put in the HOA when NAI is not there you are prohibiting me from putting what I really want in the Username (like for instance the HA-IP address).

I would say you stick whatever you have (HoA or NAI) in the user-name.
[Avi] Well I disagree. Since the HOA may be a non routable address and it would create probelms.


KL> I thought that we agree to map MIP/RADIUS and let deployment deal with routing
issues.   So it is completely up to them to decide how to route such messages if that
is ever needed.  Other AVPs may be used for such logic.  The User-Name should be
just identifier of the MN which is the HoA when NAI is absent.
[Avi] Great this is good.  So the home network will then use HOA attribute to look up the user. RADIUS does this already.  For example in EAP it knows to use the inner identity of EAP and not the UserName to lookup the user.  Why are we creating a problem when one does not exists.  

 Seems that MIP RFC rules out having both HoA and NAI.
[Avi] BTW Can you show me which RFC says that.?
 

KL>  Here are the cases of non-null NAI and non-zero HoA:

        - NAI and HoA (NAI in User-Name, HoA in HoA-IP)
        - NAI only (NAI in User-Name)
        - HoA only (HoA in User-Name)

My recommendations in parentheses. :)  The Access-Req is authenticated
by the RADIUS server, which always looks up the user by the User-Name AVP.
[Avi] If you just put HOA in the HOA attribute then the above is nice and clean:
         NAI ----> User-Name
         HOA ----> HOA-Attribute
 
Some text to suggest what happens with NAI is not available: 

Kent

--
     |           |                   Kent Leung
    :|:         :|:                  IP Mobility Development
   :|||:       :|||:                 Internet Technologies Division
  :|||||||:   :|||||||:              Voice: 408.526.5030
.:|||||||||:.:|||||||||:.             Fax:   408.525.1653
 c i s c o S y s t e m s             Email: kleung@cisco.com
------_=_NextPart_001_01C53AFE.F52F7740-- --===============0584196809== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -- Mip4 mailing list: Mip4@ietf.org Web interface: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip4 Charter page: http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/mip4-charter.html Supplemental site: http://www.mip4.org/ --===============0584196809==-- From mip4-bounces@ietf.org Wed Apr 6 19:50:33 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA23146 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 19:50:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DJKQa-0002cM-UC for mip4-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 06 Apr 2005 19:59:21 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DJKGk-0000oA-L5; Wed, 06 Apr 2005 19:49:10 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DJKGi-0000o5-TJ for mip4@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 06 Apr 2005 19:49:08 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA23031 for ; Wed, 6 Apr 2005 19:49:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ames.starentnetworks.com ([12.33.235.15]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DJKP7-0002ag-FX for mip4@ietf.org; Wed, 06 Apr 2005 19:57:53 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [Mip4] draft on RADIUS support for Mobile IP Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 19:48:55 -0400 Message-ID: <8A16DAD84432534FBFC19FD92B50512F021982AA@ames.starentnetworks.com> Thread-Topic: [Mip4] draft on RADIUS support for Mobile IP Thread-Index: AcU6/fXpyIOIOl4ARcGShu+O19irbgAA4W+A From: "Chowdhury, Kuntal" To: "Avi Lior" , "Kent Leung" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 65bc4909d78e8b10349def623cf7a1d1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: Nakhjiri Madjid-MNAKHJI1 , Mobile IPv4 Mailing List X-BeenThere: mip4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobility for IPv4 List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip4-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip4-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 2a9ffb6f997442a3b543bcdaf483b990 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This is a good summary. Basically various RRQ fields need to go to the = respective RADIUS attributes. The only open question seems to be: What happens when the RRQ does not contain the NAI extension? Some of the possible choices that can be suggested are: a. do a reverse DNS query on the HoA to find the username and then set = the User-Name attribute to the returned DNS record=20 b. Set the User-Name attribute to the HoA if the HoA is a routable = address (the HoA attribute can also be included in this case) c. If nothing comes back from the DNS and the HoA is non-routable, = reject the RRQ Does this work for you folks? -Kuntal -----Original Message----- From: Avi Lior [mailto:avi@bridgewatersystems.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 6:11 PM To: 'Kent Leung'; Chowdhury, Kuntal Cc: Avi Lior; Nakhjiri Madjid-MNAKHJI1; Mobile IPv4 Mailing List; Avi = Lior Subject: RE: [Mip4] draft on RADIUS support for Mobile IP Let me summarize: I think the following should be the general mapping. When RADIUS Access-Request comes from HA: MN-NAI if available RADIUS User-Name HA-IP if available RADIUS HA-IP address HOA if available RADIUS HOA attribute. COA (FA-COA or CCOA) will be placed in COA attribute IP address of the RADIUS interface of the HA goes into the NAS-IP = attribute and/or the NAS ID of the HA goes into the NAS-Identifier attribute Note: the RADIUS interface of the HA may or may not be the same as the = HA-IP address. Now the case of Access-Request comes for FA: MN-NAI if available RADIUS User-Name HA-IP if available RADIUS HA-IP address COA goes into the COA. HOA if available RADIUS HOA attribute. IP address of the RADIUS interface of the FA goes into the NAS-IP = attribute and/or the NAS ID of the FA goes into the NAS-Identifier attribute Note: the RADIUS interface of the FA may or may not be the same as the = COA address. So if you look at the above you can probably match merge the table. Now if the NAI is missing etc and therefore the User-Name is empty we = could add some text to instruct implementors what to put in the = User-Name attribute. But note simply blindly putting in the HOA address = will not work (as stated before). There are many possibilities for what = you put in the UserName attribute. Thoughts on above? -----Original Message----- From: Kent Leung [mailto:kleung@cisco.com]=20 Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 5:19 PM To: Chowdhury, Kuntal Cc: Avi Lior; Nakhjiri Madjid-MNAKHJI1; Mobile IPv4 Mailing List; Avi = Lior Subject: RE: [Mip4] draft on RADIUS support for Mobile IP Hi Kuntal. If it's agreed on that the NAS-IP-Address and the HA address = may not be the same, we need to fix the following. Device acting as NAS RADIUS=20 HA or FA IP address -----> NAS-IP=20 HA or FA FQDN if availabe -----> NAS-ID=20 So, it will be? HA or FA IP address -----> HA-IP or FA-IP HA or FA FQDN if availabe -----> HA-ID or FA-ID=20 Kent At 04:32 PM 4/6/2005 -0400, Chowdhury, Kuntal wrote: Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=3D"----_=3D_NextPart_001_01C53AE7.D0FC63EC" Kent, =20 In your scenario the HA should set the NAS-IP address to 10.1.0.1. The = HA address (10.10.0.1) from the RRQ can be put into the HA-IP address = AVP. The HA address extracted from the RRQ should always be sent in a = separate AVP from the NAS-IP address AVP, since there is no guarantee = that the interface address of the NAS that is used to communicate with = the AAA is same as it's HA address. =20 -Kuntal=20 -----Original Message-----=20 From: Kent Leung [mailto:kleung@cisco.com]=20 Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 3:11 PM=20 To: Avi Lior=20 Cc: Avi Lior; Nakhjiri Madjid-MNAKHJI1; Nakhjiri Madjid-MNAKHJI1; = Chowdhury, Kuntal; Mobile IPv4 Mailing List; Avi Lior=20 Subject: RE: [Mip4] draft on RADIUS support for Mobile IP At 02:56 PM 4/6/2005 -0400, Avi Lior wrote:=20 =20 HoA if available will be placed in HoA-IP attribute=20 HoA in the absence of NAI will be placed in the UserName,=20 as the HoA is the MN identifier (username) to the RADIUS server=20 in this case. I'm not sure if HoA should also be placed in=20 the HoA-IP AVP as well?=20 [Avi] Actually why do you need the HOA in the UserName?=20 =20 Just wondering how the MN is going to be identified for authentication without UserName? I thought typically this is the attribute used to lookup the authentication key in the RADIUS server. When NAI is present, HoA will be placed in the HoA-IP AVP. We can say:=20 AAA can route over any of these attribute and other attributes as well. = However, for general roaming NAI SHOULD be available and placed in the = UserName.=20 Device acting as NAS RADIUS=20 HA or FA IP address -----> NAS-IP=20 HA or FA FQDN if availabe -----> NAS-ID=20 I am assuming HA or FA NAI is really the FQDN and that belongs in the = NAS-ID attribute in RADIUS. I would like a clarification. [Avi] I need to understand what you are saying.=20 Sure, I'm not clear which part is confusing or unclear. Maybe the = entire thought process? :) Is it expected that the HA field in the RRQ/RRP is the same as the NAS = IP address? What happens when HA field is set to all 1s or 0s? Here is an example to highlight the issue. There is a box that does both PPP termination and Mobile IP. For PPP sessions, the NAS will set the NAS-IP-Address to the interface's IP address (10.1.0.1) that is used to send the Access-Req to the RADIUS = server. =20 The RADIUS server authenticates the Access-Req from the NAS, which is=20 identified by the NAS-IP-Address. For Mobile IP, the box acts as HA. MN sends RRQ to the HA with HA field set to 10.10.0.1. HA creates the Access-Req with NAS-IP-Address before=20 sending to RADIUS server. Which IP address should HA set, egress=20 interface (10.1.0.1) or HA address (10.10.0.1)?=20 The RADIUS server has a shared secret with the RADIUS client 10.1.0.1. If NAS-IP-Address is 10.10.0.1, the RADIUS server would not be able to authenticate the Access-Req and drop this message. There's a shared secret (AAA-Key) between NAS (IP address A) and RADIUS = server.=20 =20 The HA (NAS) processes registration with HA field set to IP address B. = So we=20 expect that A =3D B in all cases? Currently, I'm not sure if there's any reason for A !=3D B. Unless = someone=20 comes up with a practical scenario, I'm fine with this. As for FQDN, RFC 3846 defines the HA NAI. The NAI format would need to = be mapped to FQDN. Excerpt from spec: "It contains the NAI of the HA in the form hostname@realm. Together = the=20 hostname and realm form the complete FQDN (hostname.realm) of the = HA."=20 [Avi] Actually, Kent, the definition of 3846 is okay. It will fit in = the NAS-Identifier attribute just fine. NAS-Identifier can have any = value as long as we know what the format is. So we can convert it to a = FQDN or just leave it as is.=20 OK. I thought your mention of FQDN in the NAS-ID meant that the AVP = restricted the format to only FQDN. Sounds like as long as RADIUS server can = figure out the=20 format, we're fine. Kent -- | | Kent Leung :|: :|: IP Mobility Development :|||: :|||: Internet Technologies Division :|||||||: :|||||||: Voice: 408.526.5030 .:|||||||||:.:|||||||||:. Fax: 408.525.1653 c i s c o S y s t e m s Email: kleung@cisco.com=20 --=20 Mip4 mailing list: Mip4@ietf.org Web interface: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip4 Charter page: http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/mip4-charter.html Supplemental site: http://www.mip4.org/=20 -- | | Kent Leung :|: :|: IP Mobility Development :|||: :|||: Internet Technologies Division :|||||||: :|||||||: Voice: 408.526.5030 .:|||||||||:.:|||||||||:. Fax: 408.525.1653 c i s c o S y s t e m s Email: kleung@cisco.com=20 -- Mip4 mailing list: Mip4@ietf.org Web interface: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip4 Charter page: http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/mip4-charter.html Supplemental site: http://www.mip4.org/ From mip4-bounces@ietf.org Fri Apr 8 13:09:13 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA13998 for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 13:09:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DJx7d-0000TE-Ky for mip4-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2005 13:18:22 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DJwxo-0001QG-VA; Fri, 08 Apr 2005 13:08:12 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DJwxn-0001OJ-33 for mip4@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2005 13:08:11 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA13955 for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 13:08:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bws14.bridgewatersystems.com ([216.113.7.14]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DJx6a-0000SQ-CP for mip4@ietf.org; Fri, 08 Apr 2005 13:17:17 -0400 Received: by exch01.bridgewatersys.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id ; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 13:08:01 -0400 Message-ID: From: Avi Lior To: "'Chowdhury, Kuntal'" , Avi Lior , Kent Leung Subject: RE: [Mip4] draft on RADIUS support for Mobile IP Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 13:07:59 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7f3fa64b9851a63d7f3174ef64114da7 Cc: Nakhjiri Madjid-MNAKHJI1 , Mobile IPv4 Mailing List X-BeenThere: mip4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobility for IPv4 List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip4-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip4-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: cbb41f2dbf0f142369614756642005e3 Hi Kuntal, Actually I agree with what you said and then there is even more you can do. See this summary: > a. do a reverse DNS query on the HoA to find the username and > then set the User-Name attribute to the returned DNS record > b. Set the User-Name attribute to the HoA if the HoA is a > routable address (the HoA attribute can also be included in > this case) c. If nothing comes back from the DNS and the HoA > is non-routable, reject the RRQ You can do all of the above. Plus, if your HOA is not routable you can perhaps use the HA-IP address if it is availabe. Either do a reverse lookup or use as is. What we shouldn't mandate is that we reject the RRQ. Because an SDO may use other identites such as the Calling-Station-Id to determine the user's realm and hence route the call. We should only reject the RRQ where nothing else is available. So that is why I said that there are different things that can be done and that we should not specify them. We should make recommendations. > -----Original Message----- > From: Chowdhury, Kuntal [mailto:kchowdhury@starentnetworks.com] > Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 7:49 PM > To: Avi Lior; Kent Leung > Cc: Nakhjiri Madjid-MNAKHJI1; Mobile IPv4 Mailing List > Subject: RE: [Mip4] draft on RADIUS support for Mobile IP > > > This is a good summary. Basically various RRQ fields need to > go to the respective RADIUS attributes. The only open > question seems to be: > > What happens when the RRQ does not contain the NAI extension? > > Some of the possible choices that can be suggested are: > > a. do a reverse DNS query on the HoA to find the username and > then set the User-Name attribute to the returned DNS record > b. Set the User-Name attribute to the HoA if the HoA is a > routable address (the HoA attribute can also be included in > this case) c. If nothing comes back from the DNS and the HoA > is non-routable, reject the RRQ > > Does this work for you folks? > > -Kuntal > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Avi Lior [mailto:avi@bridgewatersystems.com] > Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 6:11 PM > To: 'Kent Leung'; Chowdhury, Kuntal > Cc: Avi Lior; Nakhjiri Madjid-MNAKHJI1; Mobile IPv4 Mailing > List; Avi Lior > Subject: RE: [Mip4] draft on RADIUS support for Mobile IP > > > Let me summarize: > > I think the following should be the general mapping. > > When RADIUS Access-Request comes from HA: > > MN-NAI if available RADIUS User-Name > HA-IP if available RADIUS HA-IP address > HOA if available RADIUS HOA attribute. > > COA (FA-COA or CCOA) will be placed in COA attribute > > IP address of the RADIUS interface of the HA goes into the > NAS-IP attribute and/or the NAS ID of the HA goes into the > NAS-Identifier attribute > > Note: the RADIUS interface of the HA may or may not be the > same as the HA-IP address. > > Now the case of Access-Request comes for FA: > > MN-NAI if available RADIUS User-Name > HA-IP if available RADIUS HA-IP address > COA goes into the COA. > HOA if available RADIUS HOA attribute. > > IP address of the RADIUS interface of the FA goes into the > NAS-IP attribute and/or the NAS ID of the FA goes into the > NAS-Identifier attribute > > Note: the RADIUS interface of the FA may or may not be the > same as the COA address. > > So if you look at the above you can probably match merge the table. > > > Now if the NAI is missing etc and therefore the User-Name is > empty we could add some text to instruct implementors what to > put in the User-Name attribute. But note simply blindly > putting in the HOA address will not work (as stated before). > There are many possibilities for what you put in the UserName > attribute. > > Thoughts on above? > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Kent Leung [mailto:kleung@cisco.com] > Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 5:19 PM > To: Chowdhury, Kuntal > Cc: Avi Lior; Nakhjiri Madjid-MNAKHJI1; Mobile IPv4 Mailing > List; Avi Lior > Subject: RE: [Mip4] draft on RADIUS support for Mobile IP > > > Hi Kuntal. If it's agreed on that the NAS-IP-Address and the > HA address may not be the same, we need to fix the following. > > Device acting as NAS RADIUS > HA or FA IP address -----> NAS-IP > HA or FA FQDN if availabe -----> NAS-ID > > So, it will be? > > HA or FA IP address -----> HA-IP or FA-IP > HA or FA FQDN if availabe -----> HA-ID or FA-ID > > Kent > > At 04:32 PM 4/6/2005 -0400, Chowdhury, Kuntal wrote: > > Content-class: urn:content-classes:message > Content-Type: multipart/alternative; > boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C53AE7.D0FC63EC" > > Kent, > > In your scenario the HA should set the NAS-IP address to > 10.1.0.1. The HA address (10.10.0.1) from the RRQ can be put > into the HA-IP address AVP. The HA address extracted from the > RRQ should always be sent in a separate AVP from the NAS-IP > address AVP, since there is no guarantee that the interface > address of the NAS that is used to communicate with the AAA > is same as it's HA address. > > -Kuntal > -----Original Message----- > From: Kent Leung [mailto:kleung@cisco.com] > Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 3:11 PM > To: Avi Lior > Cc: Avi Lior; Nakhjiri Madjid-MNAKHJI1; Nakhjiri > Madjid-MNAKHJI1; Chowdhury, Kuntal; Mobile IPv4 Mailing List; > Avi Lior > Subject: RE: [Mip4] draft on RADIUS support for Mobile IP > > > At 02:56 PM 4/6/2005 -0400, Avi Lior wrote: > > HoA if available will be placed in HoA-IP attribute > > > HoA in the absence of NAI will be placed in the UserName, > as the HoA is the MN identifier (username) to the RADIUS server > in this case. I'm not sure if HoA should also be placed in > the HoA-IP AVP as well? > [Avi] Actually why do you need the HOA in the UserName? > > > > > Just wondering how the MN is going to be identified for > authentication without UserName? I thought typically this is > the attribute used to lookup the authentication key in the > RADIUS server. > > > When NAI is present, HoA will be placed in the HoA-IP AVP. > > > > > > > We can say: > AAA can route over any of these attribute and other > attributes as well. However, for general roaming NAI SHOULD > be available and placed in the UserName. > Device acting as NAS RADIUS > HA or FA IP address -----> NAS-IP > HA or FA FQDN if availabe -----> NAS-ID > I am assuming HA or FA NAI is really the FQDN and that > belongs in the NAS-ID attribute in RADIUS. I would like a > clarification. > > > [Avi] I need to understand what you are saying. > > > Sure, I'm not clear which part is confusing or unclear. > Maybe the entire thought process? :) > > Is it expected that the HA field in the RRQ/RRP is the same > as the NAS IP address? What happens when HA field is set to > all 1s or 0s? > > Here is an example to highlight the issue. > > There is a box that does both PPP termination and Mobile IP. > > For PPP sessions, the NAS will set the NAS-IP-Address to the > interface's IP address (10.1.0.1) that is used to send the > Access-Req to the RADIUS server. > The RADIUS server authenticates the Access-Req from the NAS, which is > identified by the NAS-IP-Address. > > For Mobile IP, the box acts as HA. MN sends RRQ to the HA > with HA field set to 10.10.0.1. HA creates the Access-Req > with NAS-IP-Address before > sending to RADIUS server. Which IP address should HA set, egress > interface (10.1.0.1) or HA address (10.10.0.1)? > > The RADIUS server has a shared secret with the RADIUS client > 10.1.0.1. If NAS-IP-Address is 10.10.0.1, the RADIUS server > would not be able to authenticate the Access-Req and drop > this message. > > > There's a shared secret (AAA-Key) between NAS (IP address A) > and RADIUS server. > > The HA (NAS) processes registration with HA field set to IP > address B. So we > expect that A = B in all cases? > > > Currently, I'm not sure if there's any reason for A != B. > Unless someone > comes up with a practical scenario, I'm fine with this. > > > As for FQDN, RFC 3846 defines the HA NAI. The NAI format > would need to > be mapped to FQDN. Excerpt from spec: > > > "It contains the NAI of the HA in the form hostname@realm. > Together the > hostname and realm form the complete FQDN (hostname.realm) > of the HA." > [Avi] Actually, Kent, the definition of 3846 is okay. It > will fit in the NAS-Identifier attribute just fine. > NAS-Identifier can have any value as long as we know what the > format is. So we can convert it to a FQDN or just leave it as is. > > OK. I thought your mention of FQDN in the NAS-ID meant that > the AVP restricted the format to only FQDN. Sounds like as > long as RADIUS server can figure out the > format, we're fine. > > Kent > > -- > | | Kent Leung > :|: :|: IP Mobility Development > :|||: :|||: Internet Technologies Division > :|||||||: :|||||||: Voice: 408.526.5030 > .:|||||||||:.:|||||||||:. Fax: 408.525.1653 > c i s c o S y s t e m s Email: kleung@cisco.com > > -- > Mip4 mailing list: Mip4@ietf.org > Web interface: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip4 > Charter page: http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/mip4-charter.html > Supplemental site: http://www.mip4.org/ > > > -- > | | Kent Leung > :|: :|: IP Mobility Development > :|||: :|||: Internet Technologies Division > :|||||||: :|||||||: Voice: 408.526.5030 > .:|||||||||:.:|||||||||:. Fax: 408.525.1653 > c i s c o S y s t e m s Email: kleung@cisco.com > -- Mip4 mailing list: Mip4@ietf.org Web interface: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip4 Charter page: http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/mip4-charter.html Supplemental site: http://www.mip4.org/ From mip4-bounces@ietf.org Sun Apr 10 08:56:53 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA16644 for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 08:56:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DKc8p-0006gj-At for mip4-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 09:06:23 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DKbyg-00018c-7v; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 08:55:50 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DK5qG-0008O9-3D; Fri, 08 Apr 2005 22:37:06 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA21706; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 22:36:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gator9.hostgator.com ([67.18.141.194]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DK5z7-0003yV-OV; Fri, 08 Apr 2005 22:46:10 -0400 Received: from pool-71-96-155-36.dfw.dsl-w.verizon.net ([71.96.155.36]:1550 helo=cow) by gator9.hostgator.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.44) id 1DK5pm-0007Fx-GD; Fri, 08 Apr 2005 21:36:30 -0500 From: "Dawn " To: "ICST Newsletter" , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 21:40:01 -0500 Message-ID: <002001c53cad$6e273840$f922fea9@cow> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: Normal X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - gator9.hostgator.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [0 0] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - icst.org X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 10d2fdecab7a7fa796e06e001d026c91 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 08:55:41 -0400 Subject: [Mip4] Call For Proposals - Comsware 2006 X-BeenThere: mip4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobility for IPv4 List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0221202464==" Sender: mip4-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip4-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.2 (/) X-Scan-Signature: f5932bfc8385127f631fc458a872feb1 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============0221202464== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0021_01C53C83.85513040" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01C53C83.85513040 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ****************** Call For Proposals: Workshops in Comsware 2006 Proposals for focused workshops sought as part of COMSWARE 2006. COMmunication System softWAre and MiddlewaRE (COMSWARE) is an international conference co-sponsored jointly by IEEE and ACM Sigmobile dedicated to the challenges of Software in Communications. The first COMSWARE conference will be held in the picturesque capital of India - New Delhi, from Jan 8-12, 2006, and promises to host a premier flurry of innovations in software and communications research. Additional details on COMSWARE 2006 may be found at the conference website: http://www.comsware.org/ Original proposals for workshops are solicited from potential workshop organizers. Proposals can be tailored on any particular aspect of the convergence of software and communications. The proposal should include the following: Half-to-one page write up on the scope of the workshop. 8-10 critical areas in the scope of the workshop topic Potential names of co-chair from industry and academia Sponsorship and Exhibit opportunities within the workshop Tentative one-day workshop schedule plan by the organizer Please send your proposals by May 2nd to Prof. Gaurav Sharma (gaurav.sharma@rochester.edu) or Dr. Ashwin Gumaste (ashwing@ieee.org) ******************* ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01C53C83.85513040 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

******************

 

Call For Proposals: Workshops in Comsware = 2006

 

Proposals for focused workshops sought as part of = COMSWARE 2006.   COMmunication System softWAre and MiddlewaRE = (COMSWARE) is an

international conference co-sponsored jointly by = IEEE and ACM Sigmobile dedicated to the challenges of Software in Communications. = The first

COMSWARE conference will be held in the picturesque capital of India - New = Delhi, from = Jan 8-12, 2006, and promises to host a premier flurry =

of innovations in software and communications = research. Additional details on COMSWARE 2006 may be found at the conference = website:

 

http://www.comsware.org/

 

Original proposals for workshops are solicited from potential workshop organizers. Proposals can be tailored on any = particular aspect of the

convergence of software and communications. The = proposal should include the following:

 

Half-to-one page write up on the scope of the = workshop.

8-10 critical areas in the scope of the workshop = topic

Potential names of co-chair from industry and = academia

Sponsorship and Exhibit opportunities within the = workshop

Tentative one-day workshop schedule plan by the = organizer

 

Please send your proposals by May 2nd to = Prof. Gaurav Sharma = (gaurav.sharma@rochester.edu) or Dr. Ashwin Gumaste (ashwing@ieee.org)

 

*******************

------=_NextPart_000_0021_01C53C83.85513040-- --===============0221202464== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -- Mip4 mailing list: Mip4@ietf.org Web interface: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip4 Charter page: http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/mip4-charter.html Supplemental site: http://www.mip4.org/ --===============0221202464==-- From mip4-bounces@ietf.org Sun Apr 10 08:57:19 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA16707 for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 08:57:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DKc9I-0006kb-HT for mip4-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 09:06:48 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DKbyf-00018X-J2; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 08:55:49 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DJ05r-0000WB-Cx; Tue, 05 Apr 2005 22:16:37 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA13251; Tue, 5 Apr 2005 22:16:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from gator9.hostgator.com ([67.18.141.194]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DJ0E4-0000S8-VW; Tue, 05 Apr 2005 22:25:07 -0400 Received: from pool-71-96-155-36.dfw.dsl-w.verizon.net ([71.96.155.36]:1728 helo=cow) by gator9.hostgator.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.44) id 1DJ05A-0006Nu-QH; Tue, 05 Apr 2005 21:16:03 -0500 From: "Dawn " To: , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2005 21:16:14 -0500 Message-ID: <000e01c53a4e$9cb588d0$f922fea9@cow> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000F_01C53A24.B3DF80D0" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Importance: Normal X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - gator9.hostgator.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - icst.org X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) X-Scan-Signature: df64132ced23e1406f6445adc987904f X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 08:55:41 -0400 Subject: [Mip4] Call for Papers - COMSWARE 2006f X-BeenThere: mip4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobility for IPv4 List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip4-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip4-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 56e89b758a38944229c8153fc72e2933 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C53A24.B3DF80D0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0010_01C53A24.B3DF80D0" ------=_NextPart_001_0010_01C53A24.B3DF80D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ***We apologize if you receive multiple copies of this announcement*** ------=_NextPart_001_0010_01C53A24.B3DF80D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message
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2005 19:53:15 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DLrQj-0000Va-Lr; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 19:37:57 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DLrQi-0000TM-OE; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 19:37:56 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA20371; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 19:37:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailout1.samsung.com ([203.254.224.24]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DLraJ-0008Oj-OF; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 19:47:53 -0400 Received: from custom-daemon.mailout1.samsung.com by mailout1.samsung.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 Patch 2 (built Jul 14 2004)) id <0IEW00F01SAG79@mailout1.samsung.com>; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 08:37:28 +0900 (KST) Received: from ep_mmp2 (mailout1.samsung.com [203.254.224.24]) by mailout1.samsung.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 Patch 2 (built Jul 14 2004)) with ESMTP id <0IEW00I4VSAFXO@mailout1.samsung.com>; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 08:37:27 +0900 (KST) Received: from daniel ([168.219.198.108]) by mmp2.samsung.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.17 (built Jun 23 2003)) with ESMTPA id <0IEW00CRWSAFDL@mmp2.samsung.com>; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 08:37:27 +0900 (KST) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 08:37:08 +0900 From: Soohong Daniel Park To: mip4@ietf.org, mip6@ietf.org, mipshop@ietf.org Message-id: <007a01c54081$b5155480$6cc6dba8@daniel> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary_(ID_iqwV9fcPTeQOkWq5hLZvjA)" Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: fb6060cb60c0cea16e3f7219e40a0a81 Subject: [Mip4] [New Draft] Link Characteristic Information for Mobile IP X-BeenThere: mip4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobility for IPv4 List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip4-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip4-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: c3a18ef96977fc9bcc21a621cbf1174b This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_iqwV9fcPTeQOkWq5hLZvjA) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Not sure which working group would be fit for this proposal, so I am posting it to multiple mailing list (MIP4,MIP6 and MIPSHOP) All comments are highly welcome. ====================================================== A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. Title : Link Characteristic Information for Mobile IP Author(s) : S. Park, M. Lee Filename : draft-daniel-mip-link-characteristic-00.txt Pages : 8 Date : 2005-4-13 This document introduces a new model for link characteristic information that is sent by the mobile node to let the correspondent node know which link is being used for communication between them. This utility allows the correspondent node to forward its ongoing traffics within the bandwidth of the mobile node while the mobile node changes its link. This model can be applicable for Mobile IPv4 as well as Mobile IPv6. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-daniel-mip-link-characteristic-00. txt Regards. --------------------------------------------- Daniel (Soohong Daniel Park) Mobile Platform Laboratory, SAMSUNG Electronics. --Boundary_(ID_iqwV9fcPTeQOkWq5hLZvjA) Content-type: Message/External-body; name=ATT00054.dat Content-disposition: attachment; filename=ATT00054.dat Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2005-4-13162031.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-daniel-mip-link-characteristic-00.txt --Boundary_(ID_iqwV9fcPTeQOkWq5hLZvjA) Content-type: Message/External-body; name=draft-daniel-mip-link-characteristic-00.txt Content-disposition: attachment; filename=draft-daniel-mip-link-characteristic-00.txt Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2005-4-13162031.I-D@ietf.org> --Boundary_(ID_iqwV9fcPTeQOkWq5hLZvjA) Content-type: text/plain; name=ATT00057.txt Content-disposition: attachment; filename=ATT00057.txt Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT _______________________________________________ I-D-Announce mailing list I-D-Announce@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce --Boundary_(ID_iqwV9fcPTeQOkWq5hLZvjA) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -- Mip4 mailing list: Mip4@ietf.org Web interface: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip4 Charter page: http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/mip4-charter.html Supplemental site: http://www.mip4.org/ --Boundary_(ID_iqwV9fcPTeQOkWq5hLZvjA)-- From mip4-bounces@ietf.org Sat Apr 16 15:19:26 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DMspC-00081J-3w; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 15:19:26 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DMspA-00080n-Pc for mip4@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 15:19:24 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA28749 for ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 15:19:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp3.vsnl.net ([203.200.235.233]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DMpLh-0006CV-RQ for mip4@ietf.org; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 11:36:47 -0400 Received: from 98se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp3.vsnl.net (vsnl mail server) with ESMTPA id <0IF10047XPE1FA@smtp3.vsnl.net> for mip4@ietf.org; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 20:52:59 +0530 (IST) Received: from ([61.11.57.130]) by smtp3.vsnl.net (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall Unix); Sat, 16 Apr 2005 20:52:59 +0530 (IST) Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 20:53:08 +0530 From: Keshava Ayanur To: mip4@ietf.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-Spam-Score: 0.9 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 01485d64dfa90b45a74269b3ca9d5574 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Subject: [Mip4] test subscribe X-BeenThere: mip4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: ayanur123@eth.net List-Id: Mobility for IPv4 List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip4-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip4-bounces@ietf.org -- Mip4 mailing list: Mip4@ietf.org Web interface: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip4 Charter page: http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/mip4-charter.html Supplemental site: http://www.mip4.org/ From mip4-bounces@ietf.org Mon Apr 18 16:18:50 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DNchm-0001Yh-6h; Mon, 18 Apr 2005 16:18:50 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DNZJx-0002bd-Ki for mip4@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 18 Apr 2005 12:42:01 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA04906 for ; Mon, 18 Apr 2005 12:41:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from web15302.mail.cnb.yahoo.com ([202.43.216.177] helo=web15302.mail.bjs.yahoo.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DNZUj-00033Y-IB for mip4@ietf.org; Mon, 18 Apr 2005 12:53:13 -0400 Message-ID: <20050418164144.3552.qmail@web15302.mail.bjs.yahoo.com> Received: from [144.32.128.75] by web15302.mail.cnb.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 19 Apr 2005 00:41:44 CST Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 00:41:44 +0800 (CST) From: enjoyzj To: mip4@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=gb2312 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: e1e48a527f609d1be2bc8d8a70eb76cb Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ietf.org id MAA04906 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 16:18:48 -0400 Subject: [Mip4] Questions on Mobile IP Security Issues X-BeenThere: mip4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobility for IPv4 List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip4-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip4-bounces@ietf.org Dear Experts, I am trying to get a deeper understanding with regard to the Mobile IP security issues, especially on key and security association distribution for Mobile IP message authentication. I've noticed that there are many RFCs and IDs proposing various frameworks, protocols, extensions, including AAA requirement for Mobile IP(rfc2977), AAA keys for Mobile IPv4(rfc3957), IKE(rfc2409), IKEv2, ISAKMP(rfc2408), the Internet DOI(rfc2407), DIAMETER mobile IP extensions, DIAMETER Base Protocol(rfc3588), IPsec, etc.. I've read some of them. However, because of the lack of a general description on the relationship between them, I am kind of confused with how they are related with one and another. For example, if IKE is used for key exchange, why there is need for the method described in rfc2977 and rfc3957? Or rfc2977 and rfc3957 are proposed for Mobile IP to use the IKE protocol? What is the relationship between AAA and IPsec? Is there actually a standardized method for Mobile IP key and SA distribution? Is there actually a PKI available for Mobile IP? Can existing RADIUS and DIAMETER servers be viewed as part of Mobile IP PKI? Is IKEv2 mandatory in mobility environment? ... I am really sorry for so many question marks, and please forgive my ignorance. I would be very appreciated if anybody can give me a just brief description or provide me a pointer. Thanks a lot in advance! Best Regards, Juan _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? =D7=A2=B2=E1=CA=C0=BD=E7=D2=BB=C1=F7=C6=B7=D6=CA=B5=C4=D1=C5=BB=A2=C3=E2=B7= =D1=B5=E7=D3=CA http://cn.rd.yahoo.com/mail_cn/tag/1g/*http://cn.mail.yahoo.com/ -- Mip4 mailing list: Mip4@ietf.org Web interface: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip4 Charter page: http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/mip4-charter.html Supplemental site: http://www.mip4.org/ From mip4-bounces@ietf.org Tue Apr 19 09:14:27 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DNsYd-0006XH-8a; Tue, 19 Apr 2005 09:14:27 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DNsYb-0006X8-KP for mip4@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 19 Apr 2005 09:14:26 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA08029 for ; Tue, 19 Apr 2005 09:14:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from motgate8.mot.com ([129.188.136.8]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DNsjb-0006Qt-MI for mip4@ietf.org; Tue, 19 Apr 2005 09:25:49 -0400 Received: from il06exr03.mot.com (il06exr03.mot.com [129.188.137.133]) by motgate8.mot.com (Motorola/Motgate8) with ESMTP id j3JDGf24007028; Tue, 19 Apr 2005 06:16:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from zfr01srv02.crm.mot.com (zfr01srv02.crm.mot.com [10.161.201.8]) by il06exr03.mot.com (8.13.1/8.13.0) with ESMTP id j3JDGgJN010635; Tue, 19 Apr 2005 08:16:42 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [10.161.201.117] (zfr01-2117.crm.mot.com [10.161.201.117]) by zfr01srv02.crm.mot.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E1CE865980; Tue, 19 Apr 2005 15:14:15 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <42650425.5070907@motorola.com> Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 15:14:13 +0200 From: Alexandru Petrescu User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040803 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Henrik Levkowetz Subject: Re: [Mip4] IETF-62 Draft Minutes. References: <42516A25.6080405@levkowetz.com> <4251E378.1070409@iprg.nokia.com> <42531682.4060708@levkowetz.com> In-Reply-To: <42531682.4060708@levkowetz.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.89.0.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d6b246023072368de71562c0ab503126 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Pete McCann , Vijay Devarapalli , Mobile IPv4 Mailing List X-BeenThere: mip4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobility for IPv4 List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip4-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip4-bounces@ietf.org Henrik Levkowetz wrote: >>> Thomas : >>> >>> Good. It fits better in the MIPv6 group. >> >>Thomas said lot more. I dont remember now. I think he said the first >>scenario fits in the MIPv6 wg. Thomas? > > Ok. I don't remember more details myself. It's recorded! Download the 46Mb mp3 of the mip4 iet62 session at: http://limestone.uoregon.edu/ftp/pub/videolab/video/ietf62/ietf62-ch6-thur-noon.mp3 Thomas' double intervention on this particular topic is between 4:30:05 - 4:31:04 and 4:32:18 - 4:32:28 Alex -- Mip4 mailing list: Mip4@ietf.org Web interface: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip4 Charter page: http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/mip4-charter.html Supplemental site: http://www.mip4.org/ From mip4-bounces@ietf.org Sat Apr 30 15:46:22 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DRxuw-0008Jo-F5; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 15:46:22 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DRSf5-0003D5-Cl; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 06:23:55 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA10254; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 06:23:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mx1.iit.cnr.it ([146.48.98.40] helo=mx.iit.cnr.it) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DRSs6-0003u4-Pa; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 06:37:24 -0400 Received: from localhost (mx.iit.cnr.it [127.0.0.1]) by mx.iit.cnr.it (Postfix) with ESMTP id 047EC2EE0C; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 12:23:38 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mx.iit.cnr.it ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mx.iit.cnr.it [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 23151-17; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 12:23:30 +0200 (CEST) Received: from delmastro1 (delmastrof.iit.cnr.it [146.48.98.74]) by mx.iit.cnr.it (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C4932EE16; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 12:23:30 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <003301c54ca5$a5a81ca0$4a623092@delmastro1> From: "Franca Delmastro" To: "Franca Delmastro" Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 12:24:33 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: by Content Checker at iit.cnr.it X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) X-Scan-Signature: daad8889a1d1b9fb2a1968b7b145a34c X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 15:46:21 -0400 Cc: Subject: [Mip4] IEEE WoWMoM 2005 Advance Program and Call for Participation X-BeenThere: mip4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobility for IPv4 List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1806565619==" Sender: mip4-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip4-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============1806565619== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0030_01C54CB6.669C5F10" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0030_01C54CB6.669C5F10 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable IEEE WoWMoM 2005 Advance Program and Call for Participatio [Apologies for multiple copies] *********************************************************************** CALL FOR PARTICIPATION WoWMoM 2005 Sixth IEEE International Symposium on a World of Wireless, Mobile and Multimedia Networks http://cnd.iit.cnr.it/wowmom2005 Taormina, Italy, June 13-16, 2005 Sponsored by The IEEE Computer Society The University of Texas at Arlington Technical sponsored by IEEE TCCC =20 *************************************************************************= * ADVANCE REGISTRATION DEADLINE Early Registration Deadline to avail of special discounted rates: May = 15, 2005. Please see: http://wukong.uta.edu/cgi-bin/register.cgi=20 *************************************************************************= WoWMoM 2005 MAIN FEATURES *** 15 Technical Sessions *** 2 Keynote Speeches Sensor networks: A hype or real challenge? Adam Wolisz, TU Berlin, Germany Designing Self-Organized Wireless Networks - Is It Possible? Sudhir Dixit, Nokia-NRC, Boston, USA *** 1 Panel "The Future Wireless Network: Revolution vs. Evolution? Will managed = cellular networks evolve and survive, or will they be replaced by a = fully decentralized ad-hoc/mesh architecture?" *** 1 Poster Session *** 2 Workshops *************************************************************************= WoWMoM 2005 PRELIMINARY PROGRAM Monday - June 13, 2005 8h30 - 18h00: WoWMoM 2005 Workshops Workshop #1: Autonomic Communications and Computing (ACC 2005) http://www.autonomic-communication.org/acc/index.html Workshop #2: Trust, Security and Privacy for Ubiquitous Computing = (TSPUC2005) http://www.iit.cnr.it/TSPUC2005 *************************************************************************= Tuesday - June 14, 2005 8h30 -8h40: Opening Remarks 8h40-10h20: Session 1: Ad Hoc Networks I Interference-Limited MAC Protocol for MANETs with Directional Antennas Aman Arora and Marwan Krunz (The University of Arizona, USA) An Integrated Neighbor Discovery and MAC Protocol for Ad Hoc Networks = Using Directional Antennas Gentian Jakllari, Wenjie Luo, and Srikanth V. Krishnamurthy = (University of California at Santa Barbara, USA) Exploiting Path Diversity in the Link Layer in Wireless Ad Hoc Networks Shweta Jain and Samir R Das (State University of New York at Stony = Brook, USA) A Scenario-Based Performance Evaluation of Multicast Routing Protocols = for Ad Hoc Networks Manoj Pandey and Daniel Zappala (Brigham Young University, Provo USA) 10h20-10h45: Coffee break 10h45-11h45: Keynote speech Sensor networks: A hype or real challenge? Adam Wolisz, TU Berlin, Germany 12h00-13h00: Sessions 2A - 2B Session 2A: Ad Hoc Networks II An Adaptive Routing Protocol for Ad-Hoc Peer-to-Peer Networks Luca Gatani, Giuseppe Lo Re and Salvatore Gaglio (University of = Palermo, Italy) Evaluation of Peer-to-Peer Network Content Discovery Techniques over = Mobile Ad Hoc Networks Leonardo B Oliveira, Isabela Siqueira, Daniel F. Macedo, Antonio A. = Loureiro, and Hao Chi Wong (Federal University of Minas Gerais, Belo = Horizonte, Brazil) Stable, Congestion-Controlled Application-Layer Multicasting in = PedestrianAd-Hoc Networks Peter Baumung (University of Karlsruhe, Germany) Session 2B: From 3G to 4G Application Rate Adaptation for Mobile Streaming Igor D. D. Curcio (Nokia Technology Platforms, Finland) and David Leon = (Nokia Research Center, USA) An Agent-Based Architecture for Handover Initiation and Decision in 4G = Networks V. E. Zafeiris and E. A. Giakoumakis (Athens University of Economics = and Business, Greece) DIMSUMNet: New Directions in Wireless Networking Using Coordinated = Dynamic Spectrum Access Milind M. Buddhikot (Lucent Bell Labs, USA), Paul Kolodzy (Stevens = Institute of Technology, USA), Scott Miller (Lucent Bell Labs, USA), = Kevin Ryan, and Jason Evans (Stevens Institute of Technology, USA) 13h00 -14h30 Lunch break 14h30-15h30: Poster Session 15h30-16h00: Coffee break 16h00-17h15: Session 3: Systems Evaluation Performance Analysis of the IEEE 802.11 MAC and Physical Layer Protocol Mohammad Hossein Manshaei (INRIA, France), Gion Reto Cantieni (EPFL, = Switzerland), Chadi Barakat, and Thierry Turletti (INRIA, France) Saturation Throughput Analysis of a System of Interfering IEEE 802.11 = WLANs Manoj K. Panda (Satyam Computer Services Ltd., India), Anurag Kumar = (Indian Institute of Science, Bangalore, India), and S. H. Srinivasan = (Satyam Computer Services Ltd., India) What Is Wrong in Multimedia Messaging? Olli-Pekka Pohjola and Kalevi Kilkki (Nokia Research, Helsinki, = Finland) *********************************************************************** Wednesday June 15, 2005 8h30-10h10: Session 4: Ad Hoc Networks III Service Discovery in Mobile Ad Hoc Networks: A Field Theoretic Approach Vincent Lenders, Martin May, and Bernhard Plattner (ETH, Switzerland) An Agile Approach to Distributed Information Dissemination in Mobile Ad = Hoc Networks Nicholas Bauer, Michael Colagrosso, and Tracy Camp (Colorado School of = Mines, USA) Lightweight Replication Middleware for Data and Service Components in = Dense MANETs Paolo Bellavista, Antonio Corradi, and Eugenio Magistretti (University = of Bologna, Italy) Energy-Efficient Replica Voting Mechanisms for Secure Real-Time Embedded = Systems Kevin A. Kwiat (Air Force Research Laboratory, Rome, NY, USA), = Kaliappa Ravindran (City University of New York, USA), and Patrick = Hurley (Air Force Research Laboratory, Rome, NY, USA) 10h15-11h15: Keynote speech Designing Self-Organized Wireless Networks - Is It Possible? Sudhir Dixit, Nokia-NRC, Boston, USA 11h15-11h45: Coffee break 11h45-13h05: Sessions 5A - 5B Session 5A: Multi-hop Networks Design and Evaluation of iMesh: An Infrastructure-Mode Wireless Mesh = Network Vishnu Navda, Anand Kashyap, and Samir R. Das (University of New York = at Stony Brook, USA) High Throughput Routing in Hybrid Cellular and Ad-Hoc Networks Ioannis Ioannidis, Bogdan Carbunar, and Cristina Nita-Rotaru (Purdue = University, USA) On the Clustering Properties of Exponential Random Networks Nikhil Karamchandani, D. Manjunath (IIT-Bombay, India), and Srikanth = K. Iyer (IIT-Kanpur, India) Adaptive Routing for Intermittently Connected Mobile Ad Hoc Networks Mirco Musolesi, Stephen Hailes, and Cecilia Mascolo (University = College London, UK) Session 5B: Wireless Channel Protocols Modeling and Analysis of Robust Header Compression Performance Chia Yuan Cho, Yong Huat Chew, Winston Khoon Guan Seah (Institute for = Infocomm Research, Singapore) A Joint Coding at Neighbor Network Layers Evgenii Krouk (St. Petersburg State University of Aerospace = Instrumentation, Russia) and Sergei Semenov (Nokia Technology Platforms, = Finland) Cross-Layer Design of Dynamic Resource Allocation with Diverse QoS = Guarantees for MIMO-OFDM Wireless Networks Jia Tang and Xi Zhang (Texas A&M University, USA) A Generalized Algorithm for the Generation of Correlated Rayleigh Fading = Envelopes Le Chung Tran, Tadeusz A. Wysocki (University of Wollongong, = Australia), Alfred Mertins (University of Oldenburg, Germany) and = Jennifer Seberry (University of Wollongong, Australia) 13h05-14h30: Lunch break 14h30-15h45: Session 6: 802.11 Temporal Fairness Provisioning in Multi-Rate Contention-Based 802.11e = WLANs Ilenia Tinnirello (University of Palermo, Italy) and Sunghyun Choi = (Seoul National University, Korea) The Wireless Hierarchical Token Bucket: A Channel Aware Scheduler for 802.11 Networks Rosario G. Garroppo, Stefano Giordano, Stefano Lucetti, and Edoardo = Valori (University of Pisa, Italy) Revisit of RTS/CTS Exchange in High-Speed IEEE 802.11 Networks Ilenia Tinnirello (University of Palermo, Italy), Sunghyun Choi, and = Youngsoo Kim (Seoul National University, Korea) 15h45-16h15: Coffee break 16h15-17h35: Sessions 7A - 7B Session 7A: Applications & Services Adaptive Resource Management for Multimedia Applications in Wireless = Networks Nilanjan Banerjee, Kalyan Basu, and Sajal K. Das (The University of = Texas at Arlington, USA) Personalized Service Composition for Ubiquitous Multimedia Delivery Swaroop Kalasapur, Mohan Kumar, and Behrooz Shirazi (The University of = Texas at Arlington, USA) Supporting Semantic-Based Multimedia Data Access in Ad Hoc Networks Bo Yang and Ali R. Hurson (The Pennsylvania State University, USA) A System Structure for Adaptive Mobile Applications Vincenzo De Florio and Chris Blondia (University of Antwerp, Belgium) Session 7B: MAC Protocols A High-Throughput MAC Strategy for Next-Generation WLANs Seongkwan Kim, Youngsoo Kim, Sunghyun Choi (Seoul National University, = Korea), Kyunghun Jang, and Jin-Bong Chang (Samsung Advanced Institute of = Technology, Korea) PARMA: A PHY/MAC Aware Routing Metric for Ad-Hoc Wireless Networks with = Multi-Rate Radios Suli Zhao, Zhibin Wu (WINLAB, Rutgers University, USA), Arup Acharya = (IBM Research, USA) and Dipankar Raychaudhuri (WINLAB, Rutgers = University, USA), Ad-Hoc Extensions to the 802.15.3 MAC Protocol Samir Datta, Ivan Seskar (WINLAB, Rutgers University, USA), Mustafa = Demirhan (Intel Corp., USA), Siun-Chuon Mau, and Dipankar Raychaudhuri = (WINLAB, Rutgers University, USA) Packet Delay Distribution of the IEEE 802.11 Distributed Coordination = Function P. Raptis, V. Vitsas (Technological Educational Institution, = Thessaloniki, Greece), K, K. Paparrizos (University of Macedonia, = Thessaloniki, Greece), P. Chatzimisios, and A. C. Boucouvalas = (Bournemouth University, UK) 20h00: Social Dinner ********************************************************** Thursday June 16, 2005 9h00-10h20: Sessions 8A - 8B Session 8A: Energy Management Energy-Aware Routing in Wireless Ad-Hoc Networks Panagiotis C. Kokkinos, Christos A. Papageorgiou and Emmanouel A. = Varvarigos (University of Patras, Greece) On Maximizing Lifetime of a Sensor Cluster Samar Agnihotri and Pavan Nuggehalli, and H. Jamadagni (Indian = Institute of Science, India) On Topology Control of Wireless Peer-to-Peer File Sharing Networks: = Energy Efficiency, Fairness and Incentive Andrew Ka-Ho Leung, and Yu-Kwong Kwok (The University of Hong Kong) Game Theoretic Power Aware Wireless Data Access Mark Kai-Ho Yeung and Yu-Kwong Kwok (The University of Hong Kong) Session 8B: Quality of Service Fast IP Handoff Support for VoIP and Multimedia Applications in 802.11 = WLANs Ioanna Samprakou (Atmel Hellas S.A., Greece), Christos Bouras = (University of Patras, Greece), and Theodore Karoubalis (Atmel Hellas = S.A., Greece) Exploiting MAC Flexibility in WiMAX for Media Streaming Shamik Sengupta, Mainak Chatterjee (University of Central Florida, = USA), Samrat Ganguly, and Rauf Izmailov (NEC Labs, USA) Dynamic QoS Negotiation and Adaptation for Networked Virtual Reality = Services Lea Skorin-Kapov (Ericsson, Croatia) and Maja Matijasevic (University = of Zagreb, Croatia) 10h20-10h50: Coffee break 10h50-12h10: Sessions 9A - 9B Session 9A: Ad Hoc Networks IV Hello Protocols for Wireless Ad-Hoc Networks: Overhead and Accuracy = Tradeoffs Venkata C. Giruka and Mukesh Singhal (University of Kentucky, USA) A Generic Algorithm to Improve the Performance of Proactive Ad Hoc = Mechanisms Mona Ghassemian, Vasilis Friderikos, and A. Hamid Aghvami (King's = College London, UK) Comparisons of Inter-Domain Routing Schemes for Heterogeneous Ad Hoc = Networks Wenbin Ma and Mooi Choo Chuah (University Bethlehem, USA) Real-Time Intrusion Detection for Ad Hoc Networks Ioanna Stamouli, Patroklos G. Argyroudis, and Hitesh Tewari = (University of Dublin, Ireland) Session 9B: Location Mechanisms & Services A Friis-Based Calibrated Model for WiFi Terminals Positioning Fr=E9d=E9ric Lassabe, Philippe Canalda, Pascal Chatonnay, Fran=E7ois = Spies (Universit=E9 de Franche-Comt=E9, France), and Oumaya. Baala = (Universit=E9 de Technologie de Belfort-Montb=E9liard, France) Precise Distributed Localization Algorithms for Wireless Networks Saad Biaz and Yiming Ji (Auburn University, USA) A Hidden Environment Model for Constructing Indoor Radio Maps Zhe Xiang, Hangjin Zhang, Jian Huang, Song Song (IBM China Research = Lab., China), and Kevin C. Almeroth (University of California, USA) Mobile Terminal Location Discovery Schemes for a 'Beyond 3G' = Inter-Worked Network Daniel Morris, Paul Pangalos, and Hamid Aghvami (Kings College London, = UK) 12h15-13h45: Lunch break 13h45-14h45 Panel=20 "The Future Wireless Network: Revolution vs. Evolution? Will managed = cellular networks evolve and survive, or will they be replaced by a = fully decentralized ad-hoc/mesh architecture?" Panel Organizer: Dipankar Raychaudhuri (WINLAB, Rutgers Univ, , USA) 15h00-16h40: Session 10: Power Control and Power Management Flexible Power Modeling for Wireless Systems: Power Modeling and = Optimization of two Bluetooth Implementations Luca Negri, Mariagiovanna Sami (Politecnico di Milano, Italy), Que = Dung Tran, and Davide Zanetti (USI, Switzerland) Power Control is not Required for Wireless Networks in the Linear Regime Bozidar Radunovic and Jean-Yves Le Boudec (EPFL, Switzerland) Integrated Power Control and Rate Allocation for Radio Resource = Management in Uplink Wideband CDMA Systems Lian Zhao (Ryerson University, Canada) and Jon W. Mark (University of = Waterloo, Canada) A Power Allocation Algorithm for Throughput Maximization in Mobile = Networks Enzo Baccarelli, Mauro Biagi, Cristian Pelizzoni, Nicola Cordeschi, = and Fabio Garzia (University of Rome "La Sapienza", Italy) 16h45: Closing session & Refreshments ************************************************************ Franca Delmastro Pervasive Computing & Networking Lab. (PerLab) IIT- National Research Council via G. Moruzzi,1 56124 Pisa, Italy phone: +39 050 3152407 (direct) ******************************************************** ------=_NextPart_000_0030_01C54CB6.669C5F10 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable IEEE WoWMoM 2005 Advance Program and Call for = Participatio
 
[Apologies for = multiple=20 copies]
********************************************************************= ***

CALL FOR = PARTICIPATION

WoWMoM 2005
Sixth IEEE International = Symposium on a=20 World of Wireless,
Mobile and Multimedia=20 Networks

http://cnd.iit.cnr.it/wowmom200= 5
Taormina, Italy, June 13-16,=20 2005

Sponsored by
The IEEE Computer = Society
The University of Texas at=20 Arlington
Technical sponsored by IEEE=20 TCCC

    
*********************************************************= *****************
ADVANCE REGISTRATION DEADLINE

Early Registration Deadline to avail of = special=20 discounted rates: May 15, 2005.
Please see:=20 http://wukong.uta.edu/cgi-bin/register.cgi 
*********************************************************= ****************

WoWMoM 2005 MAIN FEATURES

*** 15 Technical Sessions

*** 2 Keynote Speeches

Sensor networks: A hype = or real=20 challenge?
Adam Wolisz, TU Berlin,=20 Germany

Designing Self-Organized = Wireless=20 Networks - Is It Possible?
Sudhir Dixit, Nokia-NRC, = Boston,=20 USA

*** 1 Panel

"The Future Wireless = Network:=20 Revolution vs. Evolution? Will managed cellular networks  evolve = and=20 survive, or will they be replaced by a fully decentralized ad-hoc/mesh = architecture?"

*** 1 Poster Session

*** 2 Workshops

*********************************************************= ****************

WoWMoM 2005 PRELIMINARY = PROGRAM


Monday - June = 13,=20 2005


8h30 - 18h00: WoWMoM 2005 Workshops

Workshop #1: Autonomic Communications = and=20 Computing (ACC 2005)
http://www.autonomic-communication.org/acc/index.html

Workshop #2: Trust, Security and = Privacy for=20 Ubiquitous Computing (TSPUC2005)
http://www.iit.cnr.it/TSPUC2005

***************************************************************= **********



Tuesday - June 14,=20 2005

8h30 -8h40: Opening = Remarks

8h40-10h20: Session=20 1: Ad Hoc Networks I
Interference-Limited = MAC Protocol=20 for MANETs with Directional Antennas
Aman Arora = and Marwan=20 Krunz (The University of Arizona, USA)

An Integrated Neighbor = Discovery and=20 MAC Protocol for Ad Hoc Networks Using Directional Antennas
Gentian = Jakllari, Wenjie=20 Luo, and Srikanth V. Krishnamurthy (University of California at = Santa=20 Barbara, USA)

Exploiting Path = Diversity in the=20 Link Layer in Wireless Ad Hoc Networks
Shweta Jain = and Samir R=20 Das (State University of New York at Stony Brook, = USA)

A Scenario-Based = Performance=20 Evaluation of Multicast Routing Protocols for Ad Hoc = Networks
Manoj Pandey = and Daniel=20 Zappala (Brigham Young University, Provo USA)


10h20-10h45: Coffee = break


10h45-11h45: = Keynote=20 speech

Sensor = networks: A hype=20 or real challenge?
Adam Wolisz, TU = Berlin,=20 Germany


12h00-13h00: = Sessions 2A -=20 2B

Session 2A: Ad = Hoc Networks=20 II
An Adaptive Routing = Protocol for=20 Ad-Hoc Peer-to-Peer Networks
Luca Gatani, = Giuseppe Lo=20 Re and Salvatore Gaglio (University of Palermo, = Italy)

Evaluation of = Peer-to-Peer Network=20 Content Discovery Techniques over Mobile Ad Hoc Networks
Leonardo B = Oliveira,=20 Isabela Siqueira, Daniel F. Macedo, Antonio A. Loureiro, and Hao Chi = Wong=20 (Federal University of Minas Gerais, Belo Horizonte, = Brazil)

Stable, = Congestion-Controlled=20 Application-Layer Multicasting in PedestrianAd-Hoc Networks
Peter = Baumung=20 (University of Karlsruhe, Germany)


Session 2B: = >From 3G to=20 4G
Application Rate = Adaptation for=20 Mobile Streaming
Igor D. D. = Curcio=20 (Nokia Technology Platforms, Finland) and David Leon (Nokia = Research=20 Center, USA)

An Agent-Based = Architecture for=20 Handover Initiation and Decision in 4G Networks
V. E. = Zafeiris and E. A.=20 Giakoumakis (Athens University of Economics and Business,=20 Greece)

DIMSUMNet: New = Directions in=20 Wireless Networking Using Coordinated Dynamic Spectrum = Access
Milind M. = Buddhikot=20 (Lucent Bell Labs, USA), Paul Kolodzy (Stevens Institute of = Technology,=20 USA), Scott Miller (Lucent Bell Labs, USA), Kevin Ryan, and = Jason=20 Evans (Stevens Institute of Technology, USA)


13h00 -14h30 = Lunch=20 break

14h30-15h30: = Poster=20 Session


15h30-16h00: = Coffee=20 break


16h00-17h15: = Session 3: Systems=20 Evaluation
Performance Analysis = of the IEEE=20 802.11 MAC and Physical Layer Protocol
Mohammad = Hossein=20 Manshaei (INRIA, France), Gion Reto Cantieni (EPFL,=20 Switzerland), Chadi Barakat, and Thierry Turletti (INRIA,=20 France)

Saturation Throughput = Analysis of a=20 System of Interfering IEEE 802.11 WLANs
Manoj K. = Panda=20 (Satyam Computer Services Ltd., India), Anurag Kumar (Indian = Institute=20 of Science, Bangalore, India), and S. H. Srinivasan (Satyam = Computer=20 Services Ltd., India)

What Is Wrong in = Multimedia=20 Messaging?
Olli-Pekka = Pohjola and=20 Kalevi Kilkki (Nokia Research, Helsinki, = Finland)


***************************************************************= ********




Wednesday June 15,=20 2005


8h30-10h10:=20 Session 4: Ad Hoc Networks III
Service Discovery in = Mobile Ad Hoc=20 Networks: A Field Theoretic Approach
Vincent = Lenders, Martin=20 May, and Bernhard Plattner (ETH, Switzerland)

An Agile Approach to = Distributed=20 Information Dissemination in Mobile Ad Hoc Networks
Nicholas = Bauer, Michael=20 Colagrosso, and Tracy Camp (Colorado School of Mines,=20 USA)

Lightweight = Replication Middleware=20 for Data and Service Components in Dense MANETs
Paolo = Bellavista,=20 Antonio Corradi, and Eugenio Magistretti (University of Bologna,=20 Italy)

Energy-Efficient = Replica Voting=20 Mechanisms for Secure Real-Time Embedded Systems
Kevin A. = Kwiat (Air=20 Force Research Laboratory, Rome, NY, USA), Kaliappa Ravindran = (City=20 University of New York, USA), and Patrick Hurley (Air Force = Research=20 Laboratory, Rome, NY, USA)


10h15-11h15: = Keynote=20 speech

Designing = Self-Organized=20 Wireless Networks - Is It Possible?
Sudhir Dixit, = Nokia-NRC,=20 Boston, USA


11h15-11h45: Coffee = break


11h45-13h05: = Sessions 5A -=20 5B


Session 5A: = Multi-hop=20 Networks
Design and Evaluation = of iMesh: An=20 Infrastructure-Mode Wireless Mesh Network
Vishnu = Navda, Anand=20 Kashyap, and Samir R. Das (University of New York at Stony Brook,=20 USA)

High Throughput = Routing in Hybrid=20 Cellular and Ad-Hoc Networks
Ioannis = Ioannidis,=20 Bogdan Carbunar, and Cristina Nita-Rotaru (Purdue University,=20 USA)

On the Clustering = Properties of=20 Exponential Random Networks
Nikhil = Karamchandani, D.=20 Manjunath (IIT-Bombay, India), and Srikanth K. Iyer = (IIT-Kanpur,=20 India)

Adaptive Routing for = Intermittently=20 Connected Mobile Ad Hoc Networks
Mirco = Musolesi, Stephen=20 Hailes, and Cecilia Mascolo (University College London,=20 UK)


Session 5B: = Wireless Channel=20 Protocols
Modeling and Analysis = of Robust=20 Header Compression Performance
Chia Yuan = Cho, Yong Huat=20 Chew, Winston Khoon Guan Seah (Institute for Infocomm Research,=20 Singapore)

A Joint Coding at = Neighbor Network=20 Layers
Evgenii = Krouk (St.=20 Petersburg State University of Aerospace Instrumentation, Russia) = and=20 Sergei Semenov (Nokia Technology Platforms, = Finland)

Cross-Layer Design of = Dynamic=20 Resource Allocation with Diverse QoS Guarantees for MIMO-OFDM Wireless=20 Networks
Jia Tang and = Xi=20 Zhang (Texas A&M University, USA)

A Generalized = Algorithm for the=20 Generation of Correlated Rayleigh Fading Envelopes
Le Chung = Tran, Tadeusz=20 A. Wysocki (University of Wollongong, Australia), Alfred = Mertins=20 (University of Oldenburg, Germany) and Jennifer Seberry = (University of=20 Wollongong, Australia)


13h05-14h30: Lunch=20 break


14h30-15h45: = Session 6:=20 802.11

Temporal Fairness = Provisioning in=20 Multi-Rate Contention-Based 802.11e WLANs
Ilenia = Tinnirello=20 (University of Palermo, Italy) and Sunghyun Choi (Seoul = National=20 University,  Korea)

The Wireless = Hierarchical Token=20 Bucket: A Channel Aware Scheduler
 for 802.11=20 Networks
Rosario G. = Garroppo,=20 Stefano Giordano, Stefano Lucetti, and Edoardo Valori (University = of Pisa,=20 Italy)

Revisit of RTS/CTS = Exchange in=20 High-Speed IEEE 802.11 Networks
Ilenia = Tinnirello=20 (University of Palermo, Italy), Sunghyun Choi, and Youngsoo Kim (Seoul = National University, Korea)


15h45-16h15: Coffee = break


16h15-17h35: = Sessions 7A -=20 7B


Session 7A: = Applications=20 & Services
Adaptive Resource = Management for=20 Multimedia Applications in Wireless Networks
Nilanjan = Banerjee,=20 Kalyan Basu, and Sajal K. Das (The University of Texas at = Arlington,=20 USA)

Personalized Service = Composition for=20 Ubiquitous Multimedia Delivery
Swaroop = Kalasapur, Mohan=20 Kumar, and Behrooz Shirazi (The University of Texas at Arlington,=20 USA)

Supporting = Semantic-Based Multimedia=20 Data Access in Ad Hoc Networks
Bo Yang and = Ali R.=20 Hurson (The Pennsylvania State University, = USA)

A System Structure for = Adaptive=20 Mobile Applications
Vincenzo De = Florio and=20 Chris Blondia (University of Antwerp, Belgium)


Session 7B: MAC = Protocols
A High-Throughput MAC = Strategy for=20 Next-Generation WLANs
Seongkwan = Kim, Youngsoo=20 Kim, Sunghyun Choi (Seoul National University, Korea), Kyunghun = Jang,=20 and Jin-Bong Chang (Samsung Advanced Institute of Technology,=20 Korea)

PARMA: A PHY/MAC Aware = Routing=20 Metric for Ad-Hoc Wireless Networks with Multi-Rate Radios
Suli Zhao, = Zhibin Wu=20 (WINLAB, Rutgers University, USA), Arup Acharya (IBM Research, = USA)=20 and Dipankar Raychaudhuri (WINLAB, Rutgers University,=20 USA),

Ad-Hoc Extensions to = the 802.15.3=20 MAC Protocol
Samir Datta, = Ivan=20 Seskar (WINLAB, Rutgers University, USA), Mustafa Demirhan = (Intel=20 Corp., USA), Siun-Chuon Mau, and Dipankar Raychaudhuri (WINLAB, = Rutgers=20 University, USA)

Packet Delay = Distribution of the=20 IEEE 802.11 Distributed Coordination Function
P. Raptis, V. = Vitsas=20 (Technological Educational Institution, Thessaloniki, Greece), K, K.=20 Paparrizos (University of Macedonia, Thessaloniki, Greece), P. = Chatzimisios,=20 and A. C. Boucouvalas (Bournemouth University, UK)



20h00: Social=20 Dinner
**********************************************************





Thursday June 16,=20 2005


9h00-10h20:=20 Sessions 8A - 8B


Session 8A: = Energy=20 Management
Energy-Aware Routing = in Wireless=20 Ad-Hoc Networks
Panagiotis = C. Kokkinos,=20 Christos A. Papageorgiou and Emmanouel A. Varvarigos = (University of=20 Patras, Greece)

On Maximizing Lifetime = of a Sensor=20 Cluster
Samar = Agnihotri and=20 Pavan Nuggehalli, and H. Jamadagni (Indian Institute of Science,=20 India)

On Topology Control of = Wireless=20 Peer-to-Peer File Sharing Networks: Energy Efficiency, Fairness and=20 Incentive
Andrew Ka-Ho = Leung, and=20 Yu-Kwong Kwok (The University of Hong Kong)

Game Theoretic Power = Aware Wireless=20 Data Access
Mark Kai-Ho = Yeung and=20 Yu-Kwong Kwok (The University of Hong Kong)


Session 8B: = Quality of=20 Service

Fast IP Handoff = Support for VoIP and=20 Multimedia Applications in 802.11 WLANs
Ioanna = Samprakou=20 (Atmel Hellas S.A., Greece), Christos Bouras (University of = Patras,=20 Greece), and Theodore Karoubalis (Atmel Hellas S.A.,=20 Greece)

Exploiting MAC = Flexibility in WiMAX=20 for Media Streaming
Shamik = Sengupta, Mainak=20 Chatterjee (University of Central Florida, USA), Samrat = Ganguly, and=20 Rauf Izmailov (NEC Labs, USA)

Dynamic QoS = Negotiation and=20 Adaptation for Networked Virtual Reality Services
Lea = Skorin-Kapov=20 (Ericsson, Croatia) and Maja Matijasevic (University of Zagreb, = Croatia)



10h20-10h50: Coffee=20 break


10h50-12h10: Sessions 9A=20 - 9B

Session 9A: Ad = Hoc Networks=20 IV
Hello Protocols for = Wireless Ad-Hoc=20 Networks: Overhead and Accuracy Tradeoffs
Venkata C. = Giruka and=20 Mukesh Singhal (University of Kentucky, USA)

A Generic Algorithm to = Improve the=20 Performance of Proactive Ad Hoc Mechanisms
Mona = Ghassemian, Vasilis=20 Friderikos, and A. Hamid Aghvami (King's College London,=20 UK)

Comparisons of = Inter-Domain Routing=20 Schemes for Heterogeneous Ad Hoc Networks
Wenbin Ma = and Mooi Choo=20 Chuah (University Bethlehem, USA)

Real-Time Intrusion = Detection for Ad=20 Hoc Networks
Ioanna = Stamouli,=20 Patroklos G. Argyroudis, and Hitesh Tewari (University of Dublin,=20 Ireland)


Session = 9B: Location=20 Mechanisms & Services
A Friis-Based = Calibrated Model for=20 WiFi Terminals Positioning
Fr=E9d=E9ric = Lassabe,=20 Philippe Canalda, Pascal Chatonnay, Fran=E7ois Spies = (Universit=E9 de=20 Franche-Comt=E9, France), and Oumaya. Baala (Universit=E9 de = Technologie de=20 Belfort-Montb=E9liard, France)

Precise Distributed = Localization=20 Algorithms for Wireless Networks
Saad Biaz = and Yiming=20 Ji (Auburn University, USA)

A Hidden Environment = Model for=20 Constructing Indoor Radio Maps
Zhe Xiang, = Hangjin=20 Zhang, Jian Huang, Song Song (IBM China Research Lab., China), = and=20 Kevin C. Almeroth (University of California, = USA)

Mobile Terminal = Location Discovery=20 Schemes for a 'Beyond 3G' Inter-Worked Network
Daniel = Morris, Paul=20 Pangalos, and Hamid Aghvami (Kings College London, = UK)


12h15-13h45: Lunch=20 break


13h45-14h45=20 Panel 

"The Future = Wireless=20 Network: Revolution vs. Evolution? Will managed cellular = networks  evolve=20 and survive, or will they be replaced by a fully decentralized = ad-hoc/mesh=20 architecture?"

Panel = Organizer:=20 Dipankar Raychaudhuri (WINLAB, Rutgers Univ, , = USA)


15h00-16h40: = Session 10: Power=20 Control and Power Management

Flexible Power = Modeling for Wireless=20 Systems: Power Modeling and Optimization of two Bluetooth=20 Implementations
Luca Negri,=20 Mariagiovanna Sami (Politecnico di Milano, Italy), Que Dung = Tran, and=20 Davide Zanetti (USI, Switzerland)

Power Control is not = Required for=20 Wireless Networks in the Linear Regime
Bozidar = Radunovic and=20 Jean-Yves Le Boudec (EPFL, Switzerland)

Integrated Power = Control and Rate=20 Allocation for Radio Resource Management in Uplink Wideband CDMA=20 Systems
Lian = Zhao (Ryerson=20 University, Canada) and Jon W. Mark (University of Waterloo,=20 Canada)

A Power Allocation = Algorithm for=20 Throughput Maximization in Mobile Networks
Enzo = Baccarelli, Mauro=20 Biagi, Cristian Pelizzoni, Nicola Cordeschi, and Fabio Garzia = (University=20 of Rome "La Sapienza", Italy)


16h45: Closing=20 session=20 &=20 Refreshments


************************************************************
= Franca=20 Delmastro
Pervasive Computing & Networking Lab. = (PerLab)
 
IIT- National Research = Council
via G.=20 Moruzzi,1
56124 Pisa, Italy
phone: +39 050 3152407=20 (direct)
********************************************************

------=_NextPart_000_0030_01C54CB6.669C5F10-- --===============1806565619== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline -- Mip4 mailing list: Mip4@ietf.org Web interface: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip4 Charter page: http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/mip4-charter.html Supplemental site: http://www.mip4.org/ --===============1806565619==-- From mip4-bounces@ietf.org Sat Apr 30 15:47:14 2005 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DRxvm-0008OQ-2H; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 15:47:14 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DRAYP-00084w-O8; Thu, 28 Apr 2005 11:03:49 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA24185; Thu, 28 Apr 2005 11:03:47 -0400 (EDT) From: wjlou@WPI.EDU Received: from mail1.wpi.edu ([130.215.36.91]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DRAlF-0006Ow-85; Thu, 28 Apr 2005 11:17:08 -0400 Received: from mcafee.wpi.edu (MCAFEE.WPI.EDU [130.215.36.86]) by mail1.wpi.edu (8.13.4/8.13.4) with SMTP id j3SF3ihJ002671; Thu, 28 Apr 2005 11:03:44 -0400 Received: from SMTP.WPI.EDU(130.215.36.186) by mcafee.wpi.edu via csmap id 9c7253fa_b7f6_11d9_8f6b_00304811e63a_17455; Thu, 28 Apr 2005 11:02:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from webmail.wpi.edu (UTILITY4.WPI.EDU [130.215.36.218]) by SMTP.WPI.EDU (8.13.4/8.13.4) with SMTP id j3SF3XYR008560; Thu, 28 Apr 2005 11:03:33 -0400 Received: from 24.241.19.6 (SquirrelMail authenticated user wjlou) by webmail.WPI.EDU with HTTP; Thu, 28 Apr 2005 11:03:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1292.24.241.19.6.1114700613.squirrel@webmail.WPI.EDU> Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 11:03:33 -0400 (EDT) To: mipshop@ietf.org, mip4@ietf.org, manet@ietf.org User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Spam-Score: 1.1 (+) X-Scan-Signature: cf3becbbd6d1a45acbe2ffd4ab88bdc2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 15:47:12 -0400 Cc: Subject: [Mip4] MSAN 2005 - Call For Participation X-BeenThere: mip4@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Mobility for IPv4 List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip4-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip4-bounces@ietf.org Please accept our apologies for multiple copies ======================================================================= MSAN 2005 First International Conference on Multimedia Services Access Networks Technically co-sponsored by IEEE and IEEE Communications Society Conference June 13 - 14, 2005 Post-conference workshops June 15, 2005 Orlando, Florida, USA http://www.msan.org CALL FOR PARTICIPATION ======================================================================= ** SCOPE ** Access networks (the 'last-' or 'first-' mile according to provider's or customer's perspective) represent one of the most important parts in telecommunication systems, being responsible for the high-quality, reliable and secure delivery of services to end users. They also encompass some of the most demanding networking problems, such as the coexistence of a large variety of technologies based on both wired and wireless solutions, the need of optimal integration with the core network in terms of bandwidth and availability mismatch, the provision of an acceptable quality of service in very different application scenarios and traffic conditions. MSAN'05, the First International Conference on Multimedia Services Access Networks is intended to provide a unique international forum to explore the new research frontiers in the field of current and next generation multimedia services access networks. Original unpublished contributions will be presented that can improve the knowledge and practice in the integrated design of efficient access technologies and the relevant provision of advanced multimedia applications. Topics of interest address: access network technologies (with particular emphasis on network design methodologies, protocols, analysis of performance and quality of service); multimedia service delivery (mainly focusing on the integration/adaptation between multimedia data processing and transmission techniques and access networks characteristics); implementation, operation and performance (providing an opportunity to present innovative applications and testbeds for the above technologies, as well as new approaches to testing and performance evaluation). ** PROGRAM ** The technical program of the conference will be available soon on the conference website (http://www.msan.org) Keynote Speaker: Dr. Charles N. Judice, Adjunct Professor at Flagler College and Monmouth University, IEEE Fellow for his pioneering work in MPEG, ADSL and visual image processing techniques. ** WORKSHOPS ** The following post-conference one-day workshops will be held in conjunction with MSAN 2005, on June 15, 2005. BWAN 2005: International Workshop on Broadband Wireless Access Network on fixed network. (http://www.bwan.org) AAA-IDEA 2005: International Workshop on Internet DElivery of Advanced Services. (http://www.aaa-idea.org) ** LOCATION ** The conference and workshops will take place at the GROSVENOR Resort in the Walt Disney World Resort, Lake Buena Vista, Florida (Orlando Area). Hotel Website: www.grosvenorresort.com ** REGISTRATION ** On-line registration for the conference and the workshops is available on the conference website (http://www.msan.org) The early registration deadline is May 12nd, 2005, 23:59 (GMT) For any additional information please refer to the conference website. Best regards, Wenjing Lou and Rolland Vida MSAN Publicity co-chairs -- Mip4 mailing list: Mip4@ietf.org Web interface: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip4 Charter page: http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/mip4-charter.html Supplemental site: http://www.mip4.org/