From exim@www1.ietf.org Sun Nov 2 19:57:26 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA01885 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 19:57:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGT1l-0004ac-F2 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 02 Nov 2003 19:57:06 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA30v50f017638 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 19:57:05 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGT1l-0004aP-AR for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 02 Nov 2003 19:57:05 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA01869 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 19:56:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGT1j-0005CN-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 02 Nov 2003 19:57:03 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGT1j-0005CJ-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 02 Nov 2003 19:57:03 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGT1h-0004Yv-Dd; Sun, 02 Nov 2003 19:57:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGT0x-0004X7-Ew for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 02 Nov 2003 19:56:15 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA01858 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 19:56:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGT0v-0005Bx-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Sun, 02 Nov 2003 19:56:13 -0500 Received: from sea2-dav28.sea2.hotmail.com ([207.68.164.85] helo=hotmail.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGT0v-0005Bf-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Sun, 02 Nov 2003 19:56:13 -0500 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 2 Nov 2003 16:55:43 -0800 Received: from 202.20.193.85 by sea2-dav28.sea2.hotmail.com with DAV; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 00:55:43 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [202.20.193.85] X-Originating-Email: [arche52@hotmail.com] From: "Heejin jang" To: "Soohong Daniel Park" Cc: References: <007501c39f83$696b55c0$b7cbdba8@daniel> Subject: Re: [Mip6] draft-jang-mip6-smreg-00 Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 09:55:24 +0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Nov 2003 00:55:43.0455 (UTC) FILETIME=[356D7EF0:01C3A1A5] Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGksIFNvb2hvbmcuDQoNClRoYW5rcyBmb3IgeW91ciBpbnRlcmVzdCBhbmQgbXkgYW5zd2VyIGlz IGFzIGZvbGxvd3MuDQpJZiB5b3UgaGF2ZSBzb21lIGNvbW1lbnRzIG9yIG1vcmUgcXVlc3Rpb25z LCBraW5kbHkgbGV0IG1lIGtub3cgaXQuIDopDQoNCihOb3cgaXQgc2VlbXMgdGhhdCBvdXIgc210 cCBzZXJ2ZXIgZG9lc24ndCB3b3JrIHdlbGwgYnV0IHBvcDMgaXMgb2suDQpzbyBwbGVhc2UgdXNl IHRoZSBtYWlsIHRvIGhlZWppbi5qYW5nIEBzYW1zdW5nLmNvbSBpZiB5b3UgaGF2ZSBzb21ldGhp bmcgdG8gdGFsayB3aXRoIG1lLikNCg0KLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLQ0KMSkgV2hpY2ggYXBwbGlj YWJpbGl0eSBpcyBwb3NzaWJsZSA/IG5ldHdvcmsgbW9iaWxpdHkgKE5FTU8pID8NCi0gTXkgZHJh ZnQgaXMgbm90IGRlZGljYXRlZCB0byBqdXN0IE5FTU8gZW52aXJvbm1lbnQuIA0KICBJIGRlc2lu Z2VkIGl0IGZvciB1c3VhbCBtaXB2NiBuZXR3b3JrLg0KDQoyKSBDb21wYXJpc29uIHdpdGggcHJl dmlvdXMgam9iIChSeXVqaSdzIGRyYWZ0KSwgSXQgc2VlbXMgbGlrZSBhIHNpbWlsYXIgYXBwcm9h Y2ggdG8gbWUgd2hlcmUgdGhlIG11bHRpcGxlIENvQQ0KYXJlIGJpbmRlZCBieSBuZXcgb3B0aW9u LiBTb3JyeSBpZiBJIGFtIG1pc3Npbmcgc29tZXRoaW5nLg0KLSBNeSBkcmFmdCBpcyBmb2N1cyBv biBob3cgdG8gc3VwcG9ydCBTaW11bHRhbmVvdXMgUmVnaXN0cmF0aW9uIHdpdGggc2luZ2xlIEJV IGFuZCBhdm9pZGluZyBkdXBsaWNhdGUgbXNnIG92ZXJoZWFkcy4NCg0KSW4gaXB2NiBuZXR3b3Jr LCBNTiBjYW4gYmUgYXNzaWduZWQgbXVsdGlwbGUgYWRkcmVzc2VzIGFuZCB1dGlsaXplIHRoZW0g Zm9yIENvQSBhcyBSeXVqaSBtZW50aW9uZWQgaXQgaW4gaGlzIGRyYWZ0Lg0KSG93ZXZlciwgZWFj aCBEQUQgY29tcGxldGlvbiB0aW1lIHZhcmllcyBhbmQgTU4gc2hvdWxkIHJlZ2lzdGVyIHRoZW0g b25lIGJ5IG9uZSBieSB1c2luZyBzZXBlcmF0ZSBCVSB3aGljaA0KY2FuIGxlYWQgdGhlIHNpZ25h bGluZyBvdmVyaGVhZCB3aXRoIGR1cGxpY2F0ZSBjb250ZW50cyBpbiBtaXB2NiBuZXR3b3Jrcy4N CihBbHNvIGluIG5vcm1hbCBzaXR1YXRpb24sIGl0J3MgZXNzZW50aWFsIHRvIHNlbGVjdCBhbmQg cmVnaXN0ZXIgb25lIENvQSBBU0FQIHdoaWNoIGNvbXBsZXRlcyBEQUQgbW9zdCBxdWlja2x5DQp0 byBtaW5pbWl6ZSB0aGUgaGFuZG92ZXIgbGF0ZW5jeS4gQW5kIG90aGVycyBtYXkgYmUgcmVnaXN0 ZXJlZCBsYXRlciBvbmUgYnkgb25lLikNCg0KQnV0IGlmIHdlIGFyZSBiYXNlZCBvbiBPcHRpbWl6 ZWQgREFEIHNvbHV0aW9ucywgaXQncyBwb3NzaWJsZSB0byByZWdpc3RlciBtdWx0aXBsZSBDb0Fz IGJ5IHVzaW5nIHNpbmdsZSBCVSB3aXRob3V0IA0KYWRkaXRpb25hbCBkZWxheSBhbmQgaXQncyBl eHBlY3RlZCB0byByZWR1Y2Ugc2lnbmFsaW5nICYgIHByb2Nlc3Npbmcgb3ZlcmhlYWRzIGluIG5l dHdvcmsu _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 3 01:02:24 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA08215 for ; 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Mon, 3 Nov 2003 15:01:23 +0900 (JST) Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 15:01:33 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <20031103.150133.43982613.keiichi@iij.ad.jp> To: Basavaraj.Patil@nokia.com Cc: mip6@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Mip6] Draft Agenda for WG meeting at IETF58 From: Keiichi SHIMA / =?iso-2022-jp?B?GyRCRWc3RDBsGyhC?= In-Reply-To: <697DAA22C5004B4596E033803A7CEF44024DB9BE@daebe007.americas.nokia.com> References: <697DAA22C5004B4596E033803A7CEF44024DB9BE@daebe007.americas.nokia.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 4.0.59 on Emacs 21.3 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Basavaraj, From: Basavaraj.Patil@nokia.com Subject: RE: [Mip6] Draft Agenda for WG meeting at IETF58 Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 07:19:05 -0600 > > Since it seems no one is intersted in this topic, I stop requesting a > > slot for this. I'll raise the same topic again before next next IETF > > probablly with implementation and some operational experience. > > I think this proposal is actually quite relevant to the MIP6 WG. I am > definitely interested in this work. I think it makes sense to include > this on the agenda for the upcoming meeting. RO is a part of the > base spec. However the base spec does not have any guidance on > when RO should be used. And this I-D is the only one so far that is > making any recommendations at all. Thanks for your interesting. I also think this topic is suitable and required for MIP6. I'll prepare some slides for the slot. Best Regards, --- Keiichi SHIMA IIJ Research Laboratory KAME Project _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 3 07:18:25 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA29059 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 07:18:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGdel-0001Nr-BI for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 07:18:04 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA3CI389005315 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 07:18:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGdel-0001Ne-5b for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 07:18:03 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA29048 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 07:17:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGdek-0004YF-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 07:18:02 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGdek-0004YC-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 07:18:02 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGdej-0001Mv-4s; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 07:18:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGdeQ-0001MN-9l for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 07:17:42 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA29034 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 07:17:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGdeP-0004Xm-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 07:17:41 -0500 Received: from shaku.sfc.wide.ad.jp ([203.178.143.49]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGdeP-0004Xj-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 07:17:41 -0500 Received: from monster.sfc.wide.ad.jp.sfc.wide.ad.jp (pae11b2.tkyoac00.ap.so-net.ne.jp [210.174.17.178]) (authenticated bits=0) by shaku.sfc.wide.ad.jp (8.12.10/8.12.0) with ESMTP id hA3CHY4u028788; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 21:17:35 +0900 Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 21:15:14 +0900 Message-ID: From: Ryuji Wakikawa To: arche52@hotmail.com Cc: soohong.park@samsung.com, mip6@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Mip6] draft-jang-mip6-smreg-00 In-Reply-To: References: <007501c39f83$696b55c0$b7cbdba8@daniel> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.8.1 (Something) SEMI/1.14.3 (Ushinoya) FLIM/1.14.3 (=?ISO-8859-4?Q?Unebigory=F2mae?=) APEL/10.3 Emacs/20.7 (i386--freebsd) MULE/4.1 (AOI) Organization: Keio University MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.3 - "Ushinoya") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Heejin At Mon, 3 Nov 2003 09:55:24 +0900, Heejin jang wrote: >=20 > Hi, Soohong. >=20 > Thanks for your interest and my answer is as follows. > If you have some comments or more questions, kindly let me know it. :) >=20 > (Now it seems that our smtp server doesn't work well but pop3 is ok. > so please use the mail to heejin.jang @samsung.com if you have something = to talk with me.) >=20 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > 1) Which applicability is possible ? network mobility (NEMO) ? > - My draft is not dedicated to just NEMO environment.=20 > I desinged it for usual mipv6 network. >=20 > 2) Comparison with previous job (Ryuji's draft), It seems like a similar = approach to me where the multiple CoA > are binded by new option. Sorry if I am missing something. > - My draft is focus on how to support Simultaneous Registration with sing= le BU and avoiding duplicate msg overheads. The main difference between our drafts is whether multiple CoAs are assigned on single interface or different interface. You draft is basically focus on only single interface. right? When CoAs are assigned to different interfaces, it is rare to happen movement (i.e. address change) for all CoAs at once. For this reason, I do not introduce optimized mode (i.e. piggyback multiple CoAs into a BU) in my draft. My personal view is that most of CoA is basically changed independently. I think optimized mode is not always efficient for individual management. Moreover, you should consider when HA rejects a primary CoA for the binding. Can HA accept non-primary CoAs which is carried by the rejected primary CoA? I don't like that MN uses only the primary CoA to transmit BU to either HA or CN. If the primary CoA goes something wrong or RR status is expired for the primary CoA, MN needs to re-try registration for all CoAs again. regards, ryuji > In ipv6 network, MN can be assigned multiple addresses and utilize them f= or CoA as Ryuji mentioned it in his draft. > However, each DAD completion time varies and MN should register them one = by one by using seperate BU which > can lead the signaling overhead with duplicate contents in mipv6 networks. > (Also in normal situation, it's essential to select and register one CoA = ASAP which completes DAD most quickly > to minimize the handover latency. And others may be registered later one = by one.) >=20 > But if we are based on Optimized DAD solutions, it's possible to register= multiple CoAs by using single BU without=20 > additional delay and it's expected to reduce signaling & processing over= heads in network.=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF= =FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=CC=8A=9E=A6j)b=9E b=B2=D3"= =A7=AF=E2z=D7=FF=A2=B8!=B6=DAl=FF=FF=F0=C3=0F=E2z=D7=FF=A2=B8?=99=A8=A5=99= =A9=FF=96+-=8Aw=E8=FEh=A9 _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 3 11:37:24 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA09530 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 11:37:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGhhP-0007vP-3I for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 11:37:04 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA3Gb3sZ030457 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 11:37:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGhhO-0007v5-Lk for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 11:37:02 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA09525 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 11:36:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGhhN-0000U7-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 11:37:01 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGhhN-0000U4-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 11:37:01 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGhhN-0007uE-Av; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 11:37:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGhgq-0007s7-8G for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 11:36:28 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA09521 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 11:36:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGhgp-0000Ts-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 11:36:27 -0500 Received: from key1.docomolabs-usa.com ([216.98.102.225] helo=fridge.docomolabs-usa.com ident=fwuser) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGhgo-0000Tp-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 11:36:26 -0500 Message-ID: <000101c3a228$a90d2b70$9f6015ac@dclkempt40> From: "James Kempf" To: "Thierry Ernst" Cc: "Ryuji Wakikawa" , , , Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 18:42:22 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Mip6] Comments on draft-wakikawa-mobileip-multiplecoa-02.txt Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thierry, I looked at draft-wakikawa-mobileip-multiplecoa-02.txt and the fundamental architectural idea here seems to be to introduce a new namespace, the BID, to tie together multiple CoAs to one HA. I can see a couple issues with this approach. 1) On the one hand, the CoAs are not exposed to the transport layer on the two hosts, so the transport layer doesn't have the opportunity to assess such connection characteristics as congestion, reachability, bandwidth, etc. when determining which CoA to use, or whether to use multiple CoAs (draft-matsuoka-multilink-transport-requirement-00.txt). An example is the MPEG streaming video example I cited in previous email. If the transport layer has access to the multiple addresses and information on the connection, it can decide whether to send the extra layers to improve video quality over a high bandwidth v.s. low bandwidth connection. Another example is SCTP which uses multiple addresses to good advantage, switching to a new address if unrecahability develops on the currently active one. 2) On the other hand, although the BID is halfway to being an endpoint identifier, yet there's still the HoA to deal with. Proposals such as MAST (draft-crocker-mast-analysis-01.txt) and HIP (draft-moskowitz-hip-arch-05.txt) go all the way in this regard and introduce endpoint identifiers that are independent of IP addresses and are utilized for session identification. The endpoint identifier is visible to the transport layer and is used for transport session identification, rather than an IP address. They use different approaches - MAST identifiers are session specific and negotiated while HIP identifiers are global - but the basic architectural idea is the same. jak _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 3 12:36:24 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA11801 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 12:36:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGicW-0002kL-MC for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 12:36:05 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA3Ha4KF010527 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 12:36:04 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGicV-0002iy-Rb for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 12:36:03 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA11774 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 12:35:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGicU-0001QL-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 12:36:02 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGicT-0001QI-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 12:36:01 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGicU-0002iF-80; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 12:36:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGibr-0002bu-EW for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 12:35:23 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA11731 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 12:35:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGibp-0001Ot-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 12:35:21 -0500 Received: from key1.docomolabs-usa.com ([216.98.102.225] helo=fridge.docomolabs-usa.com ident=fwuser) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGibo-0001Oq-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 12:35:20 -0500 Message-ID: <004601c3a230$e4587c40$9f6015ac@dclkempt40> From: "James Kempf" To: "Nicolas Montavont" , Cc: , References: <697DAA22C5004B4596E033803A7CEF44024DB960@daebe007.americas.nokia.com> <3FA28104.9080506@clarinet.u-strasbg.fr> Subject: Re: [Mip6] Draft Agenda for WG meeting at IETF58 Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 09:35:33 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Nicolas, > I think it really is the good time to initiate discussion on multihoming > at next IETF, even if it is only a short discussion. I think it is > better than a bar BOF because we never know where discussion can go... > There is a general architectural issue about how to deal with multilink flows. It is not clear, for example, whether MIP should be involved in multilink flows; one can make an equally good argument that it should be done at the transport layer, or by adding a new layer between IP and transport, or perhaps there is some other way that is architecturally cleaner. The intent of the bar BOF is to discuss this. If it were not so close to a meeting, we could set up a mailing list and have an official BOF. And, if it turns out from the bar BOF discussion that an official BOF is what people want, then we can do that for the next IETF in Seoul. But I do not think we can simply ignore the underlying architectural issue and assume that everything can be done with MIP just because the home agent provides a convenient middlebox where protocol changes can be stuck. In the end, MIP may play a role, but we need to understand the architectural issues first, and make sure any changes introduced to MIP are consistent with the Internet architecture. So the issue is broader than just the MIP group. jak _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 3 13:20:28 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA13342 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 13:20:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGjJA-0005WR-3S for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 13:20:09 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA3IK7m8021221 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 13:20:07 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGjJ7-0005V0-PF for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 13:20:05 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA13324 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 13:19:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGjJ5-000226-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 13:20:03 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGjJ5-000223-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 13:20:03 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGjJ5-0005UW-HC; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 13:20:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGjI8-0005Tn-4i for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 13:19:04 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA13289 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 13:18:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGjI6-00021a-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 13:19:02 -0500 Received: from shaku.sfc.wide.ad.jp ([203.178.143.49]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGjI5-00021R-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 13:19:01 -0500 Received: from monster.sfc.wide.ad.jp.sfc.wide.ad.jp (pae11b2.tkyoac00.ap.so-net.ne.jp [210.174.17.178]) (authenticated bits=0) by shaku.sfc.wide.ad.jp (8.12.10/8.12.0) with ESMTP id hA3IIr4u031824; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 03:18:53 +0900 Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 03:13:28 +0900 Message-ID: From: Ryuji Wakikawa To: kempf@docomolabs-usa.com Cc: ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp, ryuji@sfc.wide.ad.jp, kei@wide.ad.jp, nagami@inetcore.com, mip6@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Mip6] Comments on draft-wakikawa-mobileip-multiplecoa-02.txt In-Reply-To: <000101c3a228$a90d2b70$9f6015ac@dclkempt40> References: <000101c3a228$a90d2b70$9f6015ac@dclkempt40> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.8.1 (Something) SEMI/1.14.3 (Ushinoya) FLIM/1.14.3 (=?ISO-8859-4?Q?Unebigory=F2mae?=) APEL/10.3 Emacs/20.7 (i386--freebsd) MULE/4.1 (AOI) Organization: Keio University MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.3 - "Ushinoya") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Hi James At Fri, 31 Oct 2003 18:42:22 -0800, James Kempf wrote: > > Thierry, > > I looked at draft-wakikawa-mobileip-multiplecoa-02.txt and the fundamental > architectural idea here seems to be to introduce a new namespace, the BID, > to tie together multiple CoAs to one HA. I can see a couple issues with this > approach. Well, I am not sure whether BID is the new name space or not. The identifier of MN is still HoA. BID is nothing to do with session or endpoint identifier. BID is identifier to distinguish bindings for the same HoA. BID is used only for binding management (registration, de-, refresh) and binding selection only. The name of BID might be wrong, we should name like nonce index (i.e. just index each binding). If the name of "BID" is reason to cause misunderstanding, I can change the name of BID to "binding index, etc" in the next version. > 1) On the one hand, the CoAs are not exposed to the transport layer on the > two hosts, so the transport layer doesn't have the opportunity to assess > such connection characteristics as congestion, reachability, bandwidth, etc. > when determining which CoA to use, or whether to use multiple > CoAs (draft-matsuoka-multilink-transport-requirement-00.txt). An > example is the MPEG streaming video example I cited in previous email. If > the transport layer has access to the multiple addresses and information on > the connection, it can decide whether to send the extra layers to improve > video quality over a high bandwidth v.s. low bandwidth connection. Another > example is SCTP which uses multiple addresses to good advantage, switching > to a new address if unrecahability develops on the currently active one. We use this BID only to register multiple CoAs bound to the same HoA. Therefore, upper layers might not be aware of even multihoming (multiple bindings). see more below. > 2) On the other hand, although the BID is halfway to being an endpoint > identifier, yet there's still the HoA to deal with. Proposals such as MAST > (draft-crocker-mast-analysis-01.txt) and HIP > (draft-moskowitz-hip-arch-05.txt) go all the way in this regard and > introduce endpoint identifiers that are independent of IP addresses and are > utilized for session identification. The endpoint identifier is visible to > the transport layer and is used for transport session identification, rather > than an IP address. They use different approaches - MAST identifiers are > session specific and negotiated while HIP identifiers are global - but the > basic architectural idea is the same. The MN's identifier is still HoA in my draft. After session establishment with HoA, MN and CN need to select the best BID or use multiple BIDs for single communication depending on each flow type. This decision shouldn't be taken only by MIP6, but also other factors. I know there are several approaches proposed to MIP6WG to use filter/policy for this decision (I basically agree with them), but management of these policy/filters is _not_ MIP6 specific issue. Carrying policy by MIP signaling is not only solution. There are several ways to manage these policies at end-nodes. We need to discuss combination of other transport protocols like you listed, but what MIP6 lacks for multihoming now is multiple CoAs registration for the same HoA. This draft try to solve the issue. Even if other approach is taken for multihoming, multiple bindings registration is still needed at MIP6 layer. regards, ryuji > jak > > > > _______________________________________________ > Mip6 mailing list > Mip6@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 3 13:28:24 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA13601 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 13:28:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGjQp-0005oU-NO for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 13:28:04 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA3IS35A022340 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 13:28:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGjQp-0005oF-Hn for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 13:28:03 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA13574 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 13:27:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGjQn-00027Q-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 13:28:01 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGjQn-00027N-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 13:28:01 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGjQo-0005m3-CV; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 13:28:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGjQP-0005lW-NT for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 13:27:37 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA13570 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 13:27:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGjQN-00027K-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 13:27:35 -0500 Received: from darkstar.iprg.nokia.com ([205.226.5.69]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGjQN-00026r-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 13:27:35 -0500 Received: (from root@localhost) by darkstar.iprg.nokia.com (8.11.0/8.11.0-DARKSTAR) id hA3IQlX24829; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 10:26:47 -0800 X-mProtect: <200311031826> Nokia Silicon Valley Messaging Protection Received: from UNKNOWN (205.226.30.3, claiming to be "iprg.nokia.com") by darkstar.iprg.nokia.com smtpdNAEL1K; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 10:26:45 PST Message-ID: <3FA69E9E.8080902@iprg.nokia.com> Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 10:29:50 -0800 From: Vijay Devarapalli User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: James Kempf CC: Thierry Ernst , Ryuji Wakikawa , kei@wide.ad.jp, nagami@inetcore.com, mip6@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Mip6] Comments on draft-wakikawa-mobileip-multiplecoa-02.txt References: <000101c3a228$a90d2b70$9f6015ac@dclkempt40> In-Reply-To: <000101c3a228$a90d2b70$9f6015ac@dclkempt40> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jim, I think draft-wakikawa-mobileip-multiplecoa-02.txt deals with a very specific problem. it deals with how to register mutliple care-of addresses for a single home address. it is very MIPv6 specific. Mobile IPv6 currently does not allow more than one care-of address in a binding cache entry. nothing to do with endpoint identifiers. Vijay James Kempf wrote: > Thierry, > > I looked at draft-wakikawa-mobileip-multiplecoa-02.txt and the fundamental > architectural idea here seems to be to introduce a new namespace, the BID, > to tie together multiple CoAs to one HA. I can see a couple issues with this > approach. > > 1) On the one hand, the CoAs are not exposed to the transport layer on the > two hosts, so the transport layer doesn't have the opportunity to assess > such connection characteristics as congestion, reachability, bandwidth, etc. > when determining which CoA to use, or whether to use multiple > CoAs (draft-matsuoka-multilink-transport-requirement-00.txt). An > example is the MPEG streaming video example I cited in previous email. If > the transport layer has access to the multiple addresses and information on > the connection, it can decide whether to send the extra layers to improve > video quality over a high bandwidth v.s. low bandwidth connection. Another > example is SCTP which uses multiple addresses to good advantage, switching > to a new address if unrecahability develops on the currently active one. > > 2) On the other hand, although the BID is halfway to being an endpoint > identifier, yet there's still the HoA to deal with. Proposals such as MAST > (draft-crocker-mast-analysis-01.txt) and HIP > (draft-moskowitz-hip-arch-05.txt) go all the way in this regard and > introduce endpoint identifiers that are independent of IP addresses and are > utilized for session identification. The endpoint identifier is visible to > the transport layer and is used for transport session identification, rather > than an IP address. They use different approaches - MAST identifiers are > session specific and negotiated while HIP identifiers are global - but the > basic architectural idea is the same. > > jak > > > > _______________________________________________ > Mip6 mailing list > Mip6@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 3 15:05:27 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA18279 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 15:05:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGkwk-00031T-FA for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 15:05:08 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA3K56c4011619 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 15:05:06 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGkwi-00030h-Rc for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 15:05:04 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA18182 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 15:04:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGkwf-0003kb-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 15:05:01 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGkwf-0003kY-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 15:05:01 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGkwg-000304-Ee; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 15:05:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGkvz-0002z1-Sv for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 15:04:20 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA18069 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 15:04:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGkvw-0003jS-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 15:04:16 -0500 Received: from clarinet.u-strasbg.fr ([130.79.90.157]) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGkvw-0003jP-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 15:04:16 -0500 Received: (qmail 29752 invoked for bounce); 3 Nov 2003 20:04:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr) (noel@unknown) by unknown with RC4-MD5 encrypted SMTP; 3 Nov 2003 20:04:28 -0000 Message-ID: <3FA6B4BA.6050100@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr> Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 21:04:10 +0100 From: Thomas Noel User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030829 Thunderbird/0.2 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: James Kempf CC: Nicolas Montavont , Basavaraj.Patil@nokia.com, ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp, mip6@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Mip6] Draft Agenda for WG meeting at IETF58 References: <697DAA22C5004B4596E033803A7CEF44024DB960@daebe007.americas.nokia.com> <3FA28104.9080506@clarinet.u-strasbg.fr> <004601c3a230$e4587c40$9f6015ac@dclkempt40> In-Reply-To: <004601c3a230$e4587c40$9f6015ac@dclkempt40> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit James, Basavaraj, All, > There is a general architectural issue about how to deal with multilink > flows. It is not clear, for example, whether MIP should be involved in > multilink flows; one can make an equally good argument that it should be > done at the transport layer, or by adding a new layer between IP and > transport, or perhaps there is some other way that is architecturally > cleaner. There was in the past several propositions to solve these issues (VIP, LIN6, LAR, GSE, etc.). Several obsoleted drafts describe solutions for these problems. Just to clarify our position, we do not propose to use MIP to solve all issues of multilink flows. We think that a lot of work has been done in MobileIP WG to standardize MIPv6 specifications. And now, we must use these basic specifications to support new features. Basavaraj, I am sorry but I do not believe that multi-interfaces on a mobile node is only a research problem. There are several commercial mobile nodes with at least 2 interfaces, and we need to address this topic. It seemed to me that the good WG was the MIP6 WG ? Thomas _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 3 15:20:31 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA19796 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 15:20:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGlBI-00044x-3q for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 15:20:08 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA3KK6G5015672 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 15:20:06 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGlBE-00043f-Lv for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 15:20:04 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA19783 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 15:19:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGlBD-0003yM-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 15:20:03 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGlBD-0003yJ-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 15:20:03 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGlBC-000439-0L; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 15:20:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGlAy-00042J-4f for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 15:19:48 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA19775 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 15:19:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGlAw-0003yG-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 15:19:46 -0500 Received: from web40907.mail.yahoo.com ([66.218.78.204]) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGlAw-0003xi-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 15:19:46 -0500 Message-ID: <20031103201915.81942.qmail@web40907.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [210.5.196.6] by web40907.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 12:19:15 PST Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 12:19:15 -0800 (PST) From: Faisal Sarwari Reply-To: sarwari@yahoo.com To: mip6@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1263598418-1067890755=:81154" Subject: [Mip6] Need information about MIP6 Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , --0-1263598418-1067890755=:81154 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Dear Sir, My name is Faisal Sarwari, I am doing my Masters in Information Technology. This is my final project and my sir give me the project of MIP6 so pls kindly send me the dtail about MIP6 so I can submit my proposal to my teacher. Best Regards., Faisal Sarwari --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears --0-1263598418-1067890755=:81154 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Dear Sir,
 
My name is Faisal Sarwari, I am doing my Masters in Information Technology. This is my final project and my sir give me the project of MIP6 so pls kindly send me the dtail about MIP6 so I can submit my proposal to my teacher.
 
Best Regards.,
 
Faisal Sarwari 
 
 

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Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears --0-1263598418-1067890755=:81154-- _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 3 15:26:24 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA19965 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 15:26:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGlH1-0004MB-Kw for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 15:26:03 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA3KQ3ZC016741 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 15:26:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGlH1-0004Lu-Dd for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 15:26:03 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA19942 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 15:25:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGlH0-000423-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 15:26:02 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGlGz-000420-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 15:26:01 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGlGz-0004Kl-Or; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 15:26:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGlGP-0004Fj-68 for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 15:25:25 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA19929 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 15:25:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGlGM-00041Z-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 15:25:22 -0500 Received: from web40901.mail.yahoo.com ([66.218.78.198]) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGlGL-00041E-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 15:25:21 -0500 Message-ID: <20031103202450.76130.qmail@web40901.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [210.5.196.6] by web40901.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 12:24:50 PST Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 12:24:50 -0800 (PST) From: Faisal Sarwari Reply-To: sarwari@yahoo.com To: mip6@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-2044909641-1067891090=:75285" Subject: [Mip6] Need information about MsgTrk Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , --0-2044909641-1067891090=:75285 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Dear Sir, My name is Faisal Sarwari, I am doing my Masters in Information Technology. This is my final project and my sir give me the project of MIP6 so pls kindly send me the dtail about MIP6 so I can submit my proposal to my teacher. Best Regards., Faisal Sarwari --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears --0-2044909641-1067891090=:75285 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Dear Sir,
 
My name is Faisal Sarwari, I am doing my Masters in Information Technology. This is my final project and my sir give me the project of MIP6 so pls kindly send me the dtail about MIP6 so I can submit my proposal to my teacher.
 
Best Regards.,
 
Faisal Sarwari 
 
 

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Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears --0-2044909641-1067891090=:75285-- _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 3 15:26:25 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA19980 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 15:26:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGlH2-0004MU-3E for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 15:26:04 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA3KQ4Tj016760 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 15:26:04 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGlH1-0004ME-U7 for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 15:26:03 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA19946 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 15:25:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGlH0-000427-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 15:26:02 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGlH0-000424-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 15:26:02 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGlH0-0004LQ-O7; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 15:26:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGlGb-0004Fq-Rz for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 15:25:37 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA19934 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 15:25:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGlGa-00041o-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 15:25:36 -0500 Received: from web40904.mail.yahoo.com ([66.218.78.201]) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGlGZ-00041P-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 15:25:35 -0500 Message-ID: <20031103202505.90978.qmail@web40904.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [210.5.196.6] by web40904.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 12:25:05 PST Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 12:25:05 -0800 (PST) From: Faisal Sarwari Reply-To: sarwari@yahoo.com To: mip6@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-220719167-1067891105=:90856" Subject: [Mip6] Need information about MsgTrk Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , --0-220719167-1067891105=:90856 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Dear Sir, My name is Faisal Sarwari, I am doing my Masters in Information Technology. This is my final project and my sir give me the project of Msgtrk so pls kindly send me the dtail about Msgtrk so I can submit my proposal to my teacher. Best Regards., Faisal Sarwari --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears --0-220719167-1067891105=:90856 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Dear Sir,
 
My name is Faisal Sarwari, I am doing my Masters in Information Technology. This is my final project and my sir give me the project of Msgtrk so pls kindly send me the dtail about Msgtrk so I can submit my proposal to my teacher.
 
Best Regards.,
 
Faisal Sarwari 
 
 

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Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears --0-220719167-1067891105=:90856-- _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 3 15:31:23 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA20134 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 15:31:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGlLq-0004Zf-G5 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 15:31:03 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA3KV2kn017577 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 15:31:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGlLq-0004ZQ-AP for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 15:31:02 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA20114 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 15:30:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGlLo-00046u-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 15:31:01 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGlLo-00046r-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 15:31:00 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGlLp-0004Yp-4F; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 15:31:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGlLf-0004YE-4N for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 15:30:51 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA20111 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 15:30:40 -0500 (EST) From: Basavaraj.Patil@nokia.com Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGlLd-00046h-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 15:30:49 -0500 Received: from mgw-x4.nokia.com ([131.228.20.27]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGlLd-00046e-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 15:30:49 -0500 Received: from esvir04nok.ntc.nokia.com (esvir04nokt.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.143.36]) by mgw-x4.nokia.com (Switch-2.2.8/Switch-2.2.8) with ESMTP id hA3KUmF04998 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 22:30:48 +0200 (EET) Received: from daebh001.NOE.Nokia.com (unverified) by esvir04nok.ntc.nokia.com (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.2.5) with ESMTP id ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 22:30:47 +0200 Received: from daebe007.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.18.242.211]) by daebh001.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6747); Mon, 3 Nov 2003 12:30:44 -0800 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [Mip6] Draft Agenda for WG meeting at IETF58 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 14:30:44 -0600 Message-ID: <697DAA22C5004B4596E033803A7CEF44024DB9F4@daebe007.americas.nokia.com> Thread-Topic: [Mip6] Draft Agenda for WG meeting at IETF58 Thread-Index: AcOiReBFkAqodHUZS2+gqeNqDqtgwQAAxamw To: , Cc: , , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Nov 2003 20:30:44.0804 (UTC) FILETIME=[5B81A040:01C3A249] Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >=20 > James, Basavaraj, All, >=20 > > There is a general architectural issue about how to deal=20 > with multilink > > flows. It is not clear, for example, whether MIP should be=20 > involved in > > multilink flows; one can make an equally good argument that=20 > it should be > > done at the transport layer, or by adding a new layer between IP and > > transport, or perhaps there is some other way that is=20 > architecturally > > cleaner. >=20 >=20 > There was in the past several propositions to solve these=20 > issues (VIP,=20 > LIN6, LAR, GSE, etc.). Several obsoleted drafts describe=20 > solutions for=20 > these problems. >=20 > Just to clarify our position, we do not propose to use MIP to=20 > solve all=20 > issues of multilink flows. >=20 > We think that a lot of work has been done in MobileIP WG to=20 > standardize=20 > MIPv6 specifications. And now, we must use these basic=20 > specifications to=20 > support new features. >=20 > Basavaraj, I am sorry but I do not believe that multi-interfaces on a=20 > mobile node is only a research problem. There are several commercial=20 > mobile nodes with at least 2 interfaces, and we need to address this=20 > topic. It seemed to me that the good WG was the MIP6 WG ? Well, I am not relegating it to be a research problem at this time. I = just want to ensure that there is interest in this work before we can = consider it. If we can get a discussion on the problem statement initiated, then we could possibly schedule an agenda slot to discuss at least the = problem. So please refer to draft-montavont- and lets discuss that. -Basavaraj >=20 > Thomas >=20 >=20 _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 3 15:39:24 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA20347 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 15:39:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGlTb-0005A4-JB for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 15:39:03 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA3Kd3VV019834 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 15:39:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGlTb-00059p-Dx for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 15:39:03 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA20339 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 15:38:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGlTY-0004BJ-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 15:39:00 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGlTY-0004BG-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 15:39:00 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGlTY-00058L-Ue; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 15:39:00 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGlSm-00057n-9D for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 15:38:12 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA20334 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 15:38:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGlSh-0004B8-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 15:38:07 -0500 Received: from shaku.sfc.wide.ad.jp ([203.178.143.49]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGlSg-0004B5-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 15:38:07 -0500 Received: from monster.sfc.wide.ad.jp.sfc.wide.ad.jp (pae11b2.tkyoac00.ap.so-net.ne.jp [210.174.17.178]) (authenticated bits=0) by shaku.sfc.wide.ad.jp (8.12.10/8.12.0) with ESMTP id hA3Kbv4u000960; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 05:37:57 +0900 Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 05:39:14 +0900 Message-ID: From: Ryuji Wakikawa To: kempf@docomolabs-usa.com Cc: montavont@clarinet.u-strasbg.fr, Basavaraj.Patil@nokia.com, ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp, mip6@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Mip6] Draft Agenda for WG meeting at IETF58 In-Reply-To: <004601c3a230$e4587c40$9f6015ac@dclkempt40> References: <697DAA22C5004B4596E033803A7CEF44024DB960@daebe007.americas.nokia.com> <3FA28104.9080506@clarinet.u-strasbg.fr> <004601c3a230$e4587c40$9f6015ac@dclkempt40> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.8.1 (Something) SEMI/1.14.3 (Ushinoya) FLIM/1.14.3 (=?ISO-8859-4?Q?Unebigory=F2mae?=) APEL/10.3 Emacs/20.7 (i386--freebsd) MULE/4.1 (AOI) Organization: Keio University MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.3 - "Ushinoya") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Hi James At Mon, 3 Nov 2003 09:35:33 -0800, James Kempf wrote: > > Nicolas, > > > I think it really is the good time to initiate discussion on multihoming > > at next IETF, even if it is only a short discussion. I think it is > > better than a bar BOF because we never know where discussion can go... > > > > There is a general architectural issue about how to deal with multilink > flows. It is not clear, for example, whether MIP should be involved in > multilink flows; one can make an equally good argument that it should be > done at the transport layer, or by adding a new layer between IP and > transport, or perhaps there is some other way that is architecturally > cleaner. > > The intent of the bar BOF is to discuss this. If it were not so close to a > meeting, we could set up a mailing list and have an official BOF. And, if it > turns out from the bar BOF discussion that an official BOF is what people > want, then we can do that for the next IETF in Seoul. I will attend the bar BOF. It's better to limit the scope of discussion to only _mobile_ (i.e. MIP6 or NEMO). Otherwise, it is going to be endless and we'll get drunk. > But I do not think we can simply ignore the underlying architectural issue > and assume that everything can be done with MIP just because the home agent > provides a convenient middlebox where protocol changes can be stuck. In the > end, MIP may play a role, but we need to understand the architectural issues > first, and make sure any changes introduced to MIP are consistent with the > Internet architecture. So the issue is broader than just the MIP group. Agree that we can not ignore the existing proposal, but there is an effort to summarize the problem of multihoming on MIP6. draft-montavont-mobileip-multihoming-pb-statement-00.txt should not be ignored, either. I wonder if we could kick off the discussion based on the problem statement at the bar bof. regards, ryuji _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 3 15:57:23 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA21004 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 15:57:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGll0-00063T-GK for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 15:57:03 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA3Kv2k3023271 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 15:57:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGll0-00063F-6t for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 15:57:02 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA20982 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 15:56:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGlky-0004OX-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 15:57:00 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGlky-0004OS-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 15:57:00 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGlky-00062a-MY; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 15:57:00 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGlk6-00060z-MS for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 15:56:06 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA20907 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 15:55:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGlk5-0004Nh-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 15:56:05 -0500 Received: from shaku.sfc.wide.ad.jp ([203.178.143.49]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGlk4-0004Nc-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 15:56:04 -0500 Received: from monster.sfc.wide.ad.jp.sfc.wide.ad.jp (pae11b2.tkyoac00.ap.so-net.ne.jp [210.174.17.178]) (authenticated bits=0) by shaku.sfc.wide.ad.jp (8.12.10/8.12.0) with ESMTP id hA3Ktu4u001081; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 05:55:56 +0900 Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 05:58:33 +0900 Message-ID: From: Ryuji Wakikawa To: Basavaraj.Patil@nokia.com Cc: Thomas.Noel@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr, kempf@docomolabs-usa.com, montavont@clarinet.u-strasbg.fr, ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp, mip6@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Mip6] Draft Agenda for WG meeting at IETF58 In-Reply-To: <697DAA22C5004B4596E033803A7CEF44024DB9F4@daebe007.americas.nokia.com> References: <697DAA22C5004B4596E033803A7CEF44024DB9F4@daebe007.americas.nokia.com> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.8.1 (Something) SEMI/1.14.3 (Ushinoya) FLIM/1.14.3 (=?ISO-8859-4?Q?Unebigory=F2mae?=) APEL/10.3 Emacs/20.7 (i386--freebsd) MULE/4.1 (AOI) Organization: Keio University MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.3 - "Ushinoya") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , At Mon, 3 Nov 2003 14:30:44 -0600, Basavaraj.Patil@nokia.com wrote: > > > > > James, Basavaraj, All, > > > > > There is a general architectural issue about how to deal > > with multilink > > > flows. It is not clear, for example, whether MIP should be > > involved in > > > multilink flows; one can make an equally good argument that > > it should be > > > done at the transport layer, or by adding a new layer between IP and > > > transport, or perhaps there is some other way that is > > architecturally > > > cleaner. > > > > > > There was in the past several propositions to solve these > > issues (VIP, > > LIN6, LAR, GSE, etc.). Several obsoleted drafts describe > > solutions for > > these problems. > > > > Just to clarify our position, we do not propose to use MIP to > > solve all > > issues of multilink flows. > > > > We think that a lot of work has been done in MobileIP WG to > > standardize > > MIPv6 specifications. And now, we must use these basic > > specifications to > > support new features. > > > > Basavaraj, I am sorry but I do not believe that multi-interfaces on a > > mobile node is only a research problem. There are several commercial > > mobile nodes with at least 2 interfaces, and we need to address this > > topic. It seemed to me that the good WG was the MIP6 WG ? > > Well, I am not relegating it to be a research problem at this time. I just > want to ensure that there is interest in this work before we can consider > it. If we can get a discussion on the problem statement initiated, then > we could possibly schedule an agenda slot to discuss at least the problem. > So please refer to draft-montavont- and lets discuss that. Hello Thanks Basavaraj. it's good direction for us. I am co-author of this draft and am waiting for comments from MIP6 participants and also from authors of multihoming related drafts. We summarize the possible issues when MN is multihomed. regards, ryuji _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 3 16:31:24 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA22834 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 16:31:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGmHw-0008KY-GU for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 16:31:04 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA3LV4vj032016 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 16:31:04 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGmHw-0008KJ-BL for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 16:31:04 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA22813 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 16:30:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGmHu-00058H-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 16:31:02 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGmHu-00058E-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 16:31:02 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGmHv-0008Jo-2u; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 16:31:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGmHs-0008JI-FU for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 16:31:00 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA22806 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 16:30:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGmHq-000585-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 16:30:58 -0500 Received: from netcore.fi ([193.94.160.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGmHp-00057e-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 16:30:58 -0500 Received: from localhost (pekkas@localhost) by netcore.fi (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id hA3LUPK09136; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 23:30:26 +0200 Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 23:30:22 +0200 (EET) From: Pekka Savola To: Thomas Noel cc: mip6@ietf.org Subject: multi-interfaced vs multi-addressed [Re: [Mip6] Draft Agenda for WG meeting at IETF58] In-Reply-To: <3FA6B4BA.6050100@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , (Tailed down Cc: list) On Mon, 3 Nov 2003, Thomas Noel wrote: [...] > Basavaraj, I am sorry but I do not believe that multi-interfaces on a > mobile node is only a research problem. There are several commercial > mobile nodes with at least 2 interfaces, and we need to address this > topic. It seemed to me that the good WG was the MIP6 WG ? Could someone clarify what does this have to do with 2 interfaces? Aren't all the MIPv6-specific issues identical is two different addresses (e.g., from different ISPs) are configured on one interface? This would seem to suggest that we don't understand the problem (or have failed to describe it) to begin with.. -- Pekka Savola "You each name yourselves king, yet the Netcore Oy kingdom bleeds." Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 3 16:50:23 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA23881 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 16:50:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGmaJ-0001PU-FH for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 16:50:04 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA3Lo3Zf005414 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 16:50:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGmaJ-0001PF-8j for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 16:50:03 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA23857 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 16:49:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGmaH-0005W9-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 16:50:01 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGmaG-0005W6-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 16:50:00 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGmaI-0001Nl-9v; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 16:50:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGmZw-0001ND-1y for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 16:49:40 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA23833 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 16:49:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGmZt-0005Vl-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 16:49:37 -0500 Received: from key1.docomolabs-usa.com ([216.98.102.225] helo=fridge.docomolabs-usa.com ident=fwuser) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGmZt-0005Ve-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 16:49:37 -0500 Message-ID: <045a01c3a254$69d05780$9f6015ac@dclkempt40> From: "James Kempf" To: "Thomas Noel" Cc: "Nicolas Montavont" , , , References: <697DAA22C5004B4596E033803A7CEF44024DB960@daebe007.americas.nokia.com> <3FA28104.9080506@clarinet.u-strasbg.fr> <004601c3a230$e4587c40$9f6015ac@dclkempt40> <3FA6B4BA.6050100@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr> Subject: Re: [Mip6] Draft Agenda for WG meeting at IETF58 Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 13:49:50 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thomas, > Basavaraj, I am sorry but I do not believe that multi-interfaces on a > mobile node is only a research problem. There are several commercial > mobile nodes with at least 2 interfaces, and we need to address this > topic. It seemed to me that the good WG was the MIP6 WG ? > Who said it was a research problem? My point was that it is an architectural problem, regardless of whether any commercial products have multiple interfaces or not. A bit of history may be instructive. The IESG instructed the SCTP group to remove multilink flows from the SCTP RFC because the architectural impact was not understood. Now if you, Nicolas, Thierry and everybody else who is pushing for multilink support in Mobile IP want to see it happen, it might be prudent to show some understanding of the architectural impact, otherwise, anything you come up with (including a proposal to put it into the MIP6 charter) may suffer the same fate. In other words (to be fairly blunt since the subtle approach does not seem to be succeeding), I am trying to help you maximize your chances of getting this work accepted by the IESG. jak _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 3 16:58:22 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA25657 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 16:58:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGmi3-0001rT-CN for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 16:58:03 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA3Lw3kQ007144 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 16:58:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGmi3-0001qD-4Z for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 16:58:03 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA25516 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 16:57:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGmi0-0005sG-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 16:58:01 -0500 Received: from manatick.foretec.com ([4.17.168.5] helo=manatick) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGmi0-0005sD-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 16:58:00 -0500 Received: from [132.151.6.22] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by manatick with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1AGmi1-0006FV-Sp for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 16:58:01 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGmi1-0001pk-1Y; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 16:58:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGmhs-0001pZ-G4 for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 16:57:52 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA25453 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 16:57:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGmhq-0005rd-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 16:57:50 -0500 Received: from key1.docomolabs-usa.com ([216.98.102.225] helo=fridge.docomolabs-usa.com ident=fwuser) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGmhp-0005rY-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 16:57:49 -0500 Message-ID: <047601c3a255$8feeaf10$9f6015ac@dclkempt40> From: "James Kempf" To: "Ryuji Wakikawa" Cc: , , , References: <697DAA22C5004B4596E033803A7CEF44024DB960@daebe007.americas.nokia.com><3FA28104.9080506@clarinet.u-strasbg.fr><004601c3a230$e4587c40$9f6015ac@dclkempt40> Subject: Re: [Mip6] Draft Agenda for WG meeting at IETF58 Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 13:58:05 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Agree that we can not ignore the existing proposal, but there is an > effort to summarize the problem of multihoming on MIP6. > draft-montavont-mobileip-multihoming-pb-statement-00.txt should not be > ignored, either. > > I wonder if we could kick off the discussion based on the problem > statement at the bar bof. > Raj has indicated interest in discussing the problem statement at the MIP6 meeting, and I would certainly welcome that, as I've mentioned previously. It is on my reading list. For the bar BOF, my objective is to focus on architectural issues with multilink flows, in an attempt to get clarification re. the aformentioned problem with general understanding esp. from the IESG. Mobile devices are naturally high on the list as an application, but any proposal to do multilink flows will raise the question for fixed devices as well. jak _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 3 17:22:22 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA28062 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 17:22:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGn5G-00044S-Mp for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 17:22:03 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA3MM2RF015642 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 17:22:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGn5G-000449-EU for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 17:22:02 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA27984 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 17:21:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGn5D-0006eD-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 17:22:00 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGn5D-0006e7-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 17:21:59 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGn5E-00042b-Na; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 17:22:00 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGn4X-0003qQ-FD for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 17:21:17 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA27957 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 17:21:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGn4V-0006dF-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 17:21:15 -0500 Received: from key1.docomolabs-usa.com ([216.98.102.225] helo=fridge.docomolabs-usa.com ident=fwuser) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGn4U-0006dC-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 17:21:14 -0500 Message-ID: <052101c3a258$d6c1c230$9f6015ac@dclkempt40> From: "James Kempf" To: "Vijay Devarapalli" Cc: "Thierry Ernst" , "Ryuji Wakikawa" , , , References: <000101c3a228$a90d2b70$9f6015ac@dclkempt40> <3FA69E9E.8080902@iprg.nokia.com> Subject: Re: [Mip6] Comments on draft-wakikawa-mobileip-multiplecoa-02.txt Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 14:21:31 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I think draft-wakikawa-mobileip-multiplecoa-02.txt deals with a > very specific problem. it deals with how to register mutliple > care-of addresses for a single home address. it is very MIPv6 > specific. Mobile IPv6 currently does not allow more than one > care-of address in a binding cache entry. > > nothing to do with endpoint identifiers. > If the multiple CoAs are all on one host, then isn't the net effect of the BID to act as an endpoint identifier for the host? If they aren't, then my question is what is the BID intended for? jak _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 3 17:33:21 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA29313 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 17:33:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGnFv-0005fJ-7D for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 17:33:03 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA3MX3jD021771 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 17:33:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGnFv-0005f4-2V for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 17:33:03 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA29255 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 17:32:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGnFs-0007AM-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 17:33:00 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGnFs-0007AI-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 17:33:00 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGnFt-0005du-Ou; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 17:33:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGnF2-0005Th-VQ for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 17:32:09 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA29141 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 17:31:57 -0500 (EST) From: elgordo_lottery@ozu.es Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGnF0-00078D-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 17:32:06 -0500 Received: from manatick.foretec.com ([4.17.168.5] helo=manatick) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGnF0-00078A-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 17:32:06 -0500 Received: from 113.red-213-98-93.pooles.rima-tde.net ([213.98.93.113] helo=Tommy) by manatick with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1AGnF0-0007K2-Fs for mip6@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 17:32:06 -0500 To: mip6@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Reply-To: elgordo_lottery@ozu.es Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 23:32:05 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-Library: Indy 9.0.3-B X-Mailer: Foxmail Message-Id: Subject: [Mip6] CLAIM YOUR LUCKY WINNING... 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Best regards The Management. _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 3 17:36:23 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA29477 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 17:36:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGnIq-00060C-Kd for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 17:36:04 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA3Ma4B6023050 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 17:36:04 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGnIq-0005yN-2P for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 17:36:04 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA29407 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 17:35:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGnIn-0007DE-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 17:36:01 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGnIm-0007DB-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 17:36:00 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGnIo-0005wl-Nc; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 17:36:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGnIW-0005uF-Uf for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 17:35:44 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA29392 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 17:35:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGnIU-0007Cn-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 17:35:42 -0500 Received: from darkstar.iprg.nokia.com ([205.226.5.69]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGnIT-0007Ca-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 17:35:41 -0500 Received: (from root@localhost) by darkstar.iprg.nokia.com (8.11.0/8.11.0-DARKSTAR) id hA3MZ9X25151; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 14:35:09 -0800 X-mProtect: <200311032235> Nokia Silicon Valley Messaging Protection Received: from UNKNOWN (205.226.30.3, claiming to be "iprg.nokia.com") by darkstar.iprg.nokia.com smtpdMSJtoc; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 14:35:07 PST Message-ID: <3FA6D8D5.7060503@iprg.nokia.com> Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 14:38:13 -0800 From: Vijay Devarapalli User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: James Kempf CC: mip6@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Mip6] Comments on draft-wakikawa-mobileip-multiplecoa-02.txt References: <000101c3a228$a90d2b70$9f6015ac@dclkempt40> <3FA69E9E.8080902@iprg.nokia.com> <052101c3a258$d6c1c230$9f6015ac@dclkempt40> In-Reply-To: <052101c3a258$d6c1c230$9f6015ac@dclkempt40> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit James Kempf wrote: >>I think draft-wakikawa-mobileip-multiplecoa-02.txt deals with a >>very specific problem. it deals with how to register mutliple >>care-of addresses for a single home address. it is very MIPv6 >>specific. Mobile IPv6 currently does not allow more than one >>care-of address in a binding cache entry. >> >>nothing to do with endpoint identifiers. >> > > > If the multiple CoAs are all on one host, then isn't the net effect of the > BID to act as an endpoint identifier for the host? not really. the Home Address is still the identifier. infact there is one BID per CoA. each BID identifies a particular CoA from the set of CoAs associated with a particular home address. Vijay _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 3 18:22:21 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA03033 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 18:22:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGo1L-0000te-Et for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 18:22:03 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA3NM3dc003445 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 18:22:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGo1L-0000tU-Ai for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 18:22:03 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA03030 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 18:21:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGo1I-0000PF-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 18:22:00 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGo1I-0000PC-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 18:22:00 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGo1J-0000t1-2J; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 18:22:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGo0z-0000sn-8M for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 18:21:41 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA03027 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 18:21:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGo0w-0000P7-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 18:21:38 -0500 Received: from key1.docomolabs-usa.com ([216.98.102.225] helo=fridge.docomolabs-usa.com ident=fwuser) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGo0v-0000P4-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 18:21:37 -0500 Message-ID: <059601c3a261$47226630$9f6015ac@dclkempt40> From: "James Kempf" To: "Vijay Devarapalli" Cc: References: <000101c3a228$a90d2b70$9f6015ac@dclkempt40> <3FA69E9E.8080902@iprg.nokia.com> <052101c3a258$d6c1c230$9f6015ac@dclkempt40> <3FA6D8D5.7060503@iprg.nokia.com> Subject: Purpose of the BID (was: Re: [Mip6] Comments on draft-wakikawa-mobileip-multiplecoa-02.txt) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 15:21:57 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > > > If the multiple CoAs are all on one host, then isn't the net effect of the > > BID to act as an endpoint identifier for the host? > > not really. the Home Address is still the identifier. infact > there is one BID per CoA. each BID identifies a particular > CoA from the set of CoAs associated with a particular home > address. > Here's a quote from Section 1: In this document, we thus propose a new identification number called Binding Unique Identification number (BID) for each binding cache entry to accommodate multiple bindings registration. We also propose extension of binding cache management to store the BID and a new sub-option for binding update to carry the BID. The BID is assigned to either the interfaces or care-of addresses bound to a single home address of a mobile node. The mobile node notifies the BID to both its home agent and correspondent nodes by means of a BU. Correspondent nodes and the home agent record the BID into their binding cache. The home address thus identifies a mobile node itself whereas the BID identifies each binding registered by a mobile node. By using the BID, multiple bindings can then be distinguished. Up until the last sentence, it sounds to me as if the purpose of the BID is to unify all the CoAs under one HoA. In fact, even the last sentence could be read as that if a "binding" is meant to include the binding of multiple CoAs to an HoA. Later on in the draft (viz. Section 3) it also appears as if the BID is used in this manner. In Section 5.1, we finally learn: A mobile node assigns BID to each care-of address when it wants to simultaneously register with its home address. The value should be generated from 1 to 65535. Zero and negative value can not be take as BID. If a mobile node has only one care-of address, assignment of BID is not needed until it has multiple care-of addresses to register as a binding. So, yes, you are right, it is not used as a partial node identifier, it is used just to identify the binding. Which increases my confusion about why it is needed. Couldn't the MN simply send a HoA/CoA pair when it wanted to identify the binding? jak _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 3 21:10:28 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA08842 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 21:10:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGqdz-00040M-BX for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 21:10:08 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA42A7mY015388 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 21:10:07 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGqdz-000407-5C for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 21:10:07 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA08805 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 21:09:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGqdw-0002x7-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 21:10:04 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGqdw-0002x3-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 21:10:04 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGqdw-0003z1-8z; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 21:10:04 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGqdV-0003xs-Kn for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 21:09:37 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA08793; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 21:09:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGqdS-0002wv-00; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 21:09:34 -0500 Received: from shuttle.wide.toshiba.co.jp ([202.249.10.124]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGqdS-0002wr-00; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 21:09:34 -0500 Received: from ocean.jinmei.org (unknown [2001:4f8:3:bb:208:dff:fe40:3f37]) by shuttle.wide.toshiba.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A139D15232; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:09:33 +0900 (JST) Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 11:09:31 +0900 Message-ID: From: JINMEI Tatuya / =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCP0BMQEMjOkgbKEI=?= To: Vijay Devarapalli Cc: ipv6@ietf.org, mip6@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <3F987C5B.9070905@iprg.nokia.com> References: <3F987C5B.9070905@iprg.nokia.com> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.10.1 (Watching The Wheels) Emacs/21.3 Mule/5.0 (SAKAKI) Organization: Research & Development Center, Toshiba Corp., Kawasaki, Japan. MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.5 - "Awara-Onsen") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [Mip6] Re: A list of issues for RFC2462 update Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , >>>>> On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 18:11:55 -0700, >>>>> Vijay Devarapalli said: > here is another issue. it involves both 2461 and 2462. > RFC 2461 says > Before a host sends an initial solicitation, it SHOULD delay the > transmission for a random amount of time between 0 and > MAX_RTR_SOLICITATION_DELAY. > RFC 2462 says > If the Neighbor Solicitation is the first message to be sent from an > interface after interface (re)initialization, the node should delay > sending the message by a random delay between 0 and > MAX_RTR_SOLICITATION_DELAY as specified in [DISCOVERY]. > lets assume a Mobile Node moves and attaches to a new > link. it does router discovery and configures a Care-of > address. the mobile node cannot send a Binding Update > until it completes DAD for the Care-of address. these > two random delays (before router discovery and before > DAD) contribute a lot to the movement detection delay. > I think this needs to be fixed. > MAX_RTR_SOLICITATION_DELAY is 1 second. taking the worst > case scenario, it could be 1 second before a sending > router solicitation, one second before sending neighbor > solicitation for DAD and then 1 second before DAD > completes. the Binding Update cannot be sent until then. Thanks for the pointer. I'll add this to my local issue list. (Note to everyone: this does not mean I'm going to propose a change on RFC2462 to address this.) JINMEI, Tatuya Communication Platform Lab. Corporate R&D Center, Toshiba Corp. jinmei@isl.rdc.toshiba.co.jp _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 3 22:00:27 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA10600 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 22:00:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGrQN-00080V-KS for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 22:00:08 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA4307p7030773 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 22:00:07 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGrQN-0007z2-4s for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 22:00:07 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA10558 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 21:59:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGrQH-0003jX-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 22:00:01 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGrQG-0003jT-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 22:00:00 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGrQI-0007yJ-Du; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 22:00:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGrPQ-0007wx-7L for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 21:59:08 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA10547 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 21:58:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGrPN-0003j2-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 21:59:05 -0500 Received: from mail.flarion.com ([63.103.94.23] helo=ftmail.lab.flarion.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGrPM-0003ic-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 21:59:04 -0500 Received: by ftmail.lab.flarion.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) id ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 22:03:32 -0500 Message-ID: <748C6D0A58C0F94CA63C198B6674697A01922E6C@ftmail.lab.flarion.com> From: Soliman Hesham To: "'James Kempf'" , Ryuji Wakikawa Cc: montavont@clarinet.u-strasbg.fr, Basavaraj.Patil@nokia.com, ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp, mip6@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Mip6] Draft Agenda for WG meeting at IETF58 Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 22:03:21 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , > For the bar BOF, my objective is to focus on architectural > issues with > multilink flows, in an attempt to get clarification => My initial input to the arch discussion is that the name "multi-link flows" is a bit confused and actually reflects the opposite of what we should be doing. What you want to do is to keep a flow going on the same path all the time, without implying that all flows from a MN go on that same path. That's why I look at it more as a flow mobility problem, whereas the current MIPv6 spec deals with host mobility. So what we're trying to do is increase the granularity of movement in the MIPv6 spec. If you go along with that, you will see that this is not about splitting a connection into multiple links and therefore whatever SCTP was trying to do (if that's what you're implying) does not apply to this case. Hesham _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 3 22:09:21 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA10919 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 22:09:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGrZ0-0000WE-9H for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 22:09:02 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA43925U001988 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 22:09:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGrZ0-0000VN-4U for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 22:09:02 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA10900 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 22:08:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGrYx-0003sb-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 22:08:59 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGrYw-0003sY-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 22:08:58 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGrYy-0000UV-Og; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 22:09:00 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGrYS-0000Tk-6j for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 22:08:28 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA10897 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 22:08:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGrYP-0003sR-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 22:08:25 -0500 Received: from mail.flarion.com ([63.103.94.23] helo=ftmail.lab.flarion.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGrYO-0003sB-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 22:08:24 -0500 Received: by ftmail.lab.flarion.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) id ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 22:12:52 -0500 Message-ID: <748C6D0A58C0F94CA63C198B6674697A01922E6D@ftmail.lab.flarion.com> From: Soliman Hesham To: "'Pekka Savola'" , Thomas Noel Cc: mip6@ietf.org Subject: RE: multi-interfaced vs multi-addressed [Re: [Mip6] Draft Agenda for WG meeting at IETF58] Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 22:12:38 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , [...] > > Basavaraj, I am sorry but I do not believe that > multi-interfaces on a > > mobile node is only a research problem. There are several > commercial > > mobile nodes with at least 2 interfaces, and we need to > address this > > topic. It seemed to me that the good WG was the MIP6 WG ? > > Could someone clarify what does this have to do with 2 interfaces? > > Aren't all the MIPv6-specific issues identical is two > different addresses > (e.g., from different ISPs) are configured on one interface? => It is pretty difficult to motivate the case with a single interface. But it's fairly straight forward to motivate the work for the case where the MN has two interfaces. Case 1: The MN has two different addresses on the same interface. In this case, the characteristics of that i/f is unchanged whether you use address 1 or address 2. The address itself is irrelevant, it's the interface it represents that matters. So if both addresses represent the same interface, then either one will do. Case 2: Two addresses on two different interfaces. Now, the MN may want to put some connections on i/f 1 and others on i/f 2, why? because i/f 1 is cheap and free but doesn't provide QoS for instance so it's ok to put my web browsing on that. On the other hand i/f 2 provides QoS (for a price) so I'll only use it for real time apps. Today MIPv6 does not allow case 2 to take place. Of course you could do the same with case 1 (i.e. just to be a pain the MN wants to use two CoAs assigned to the same interface) but there is no benefit. The benefit is clearer when there are two interfaces. Hesham > > This would seem to suggest that we don't understand the > problem (or have > failed to describe it) to begin with.. > > -- > Pekka Savola "You each name yourselves king, yet the > Netcore Oy kingdom bleeds." > Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings > > > _______________________________________________ > Mip6 mailing list > Mip6@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 > _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 3 22:32:22 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA11916 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 22:32:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGrvI-0002pB-5q for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 22:32:04 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA43W4HP010851 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 22:32:04 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGrvI-0002ow-1C for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 22:32:04 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA11880 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 22:31:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGrvE-0004MF-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 22:32:00 -0500 Received: from manatick.foretec.com ([4.17.168.5] helo=manatick) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGrvE-0004MA-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 22:32:00 -0500 Received: from [132.151.6.22] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by manatick with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1AGrvG-0008KX-2U for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 22:32:02 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGrvF-0002nF-OX; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 22:32:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGrv2-0002mO-PG for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 22:31:48 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA11852 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 22:31:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGruz-0004LN-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 22:31:45 -0500 Received: from mail.flarion.com ([63.103.94.23] helo=ftmail.lab.flarion.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGruy-0004K0-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 22:31:45 -0500 Received: by ftmail.lab.flarion.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) id ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 22:36:12 -0500 Message-ID: <748C6D0A58C0F94CA63C198B6674697A01922E6E@ftmail.lab.flarion.com> From: Soliman Hesham To: "'Charlie Perkins'" Cc: mip6@ietf.org Subject: RE: multi-interfaced vs multi-addressed [Re: [Mip6] Draft Agenda for WG meeting at IETF58] Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 22:36:01 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Hi Charlie, > >Case 2: Two addresses on two different interfaces. > >Now, the MN may want to put some connections on i/f 1 > >and others on i/f 2, why? because i/f 1 is cheap and free > >but doesn't provide QoS for instance so it's ok to put my > >web browsing on that. On the other hand i/f 2 provides QoS > >(for a price) so I'll only use it for real time apps. > > > >Today MIPv6 does not allow case 2 to take place. Of course > >you could do the same with case 1 (i.e. just to be a pain > >the MN wants to use two CoAs assigned to the same interface) > >but there is no benefit. The benefit is clearer when there > >are two interfaces. > > > How does Mobile IPv6 prevent case 2? > > If I want my applications to bind to a case 2 address/socket, > why does Mobile IP get in the way? => Here is the problem: Mobile IP allows only one CoA to be bound to a given HoA, in a node's binding cache. So I should have clarified that if the communication was with the same CN, then MIP does not allow the mobile node to use two different CoAs simultaneously. > > Furthermore, I dispute your claim that case 1 has no benefit. > Clearly, it does when the addresses have separate DNS names. => I didn't think that we'd want CoAs to be put in the DNS. Case 1 was discussing having two different CoAs. I was always assuming that the MN will have on HoA. Hesham > > Regards, > Charlie P. > > _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 3 23:17:24 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA14019 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 23:17:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGscp-0005U6-S8 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 23:17:04 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA44H3T5021076 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 23:17:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGscp-0005Tr-2Z for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 23:17:03 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA13999 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 23:16:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGscm-0005Bx-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 23:17:00 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGscm-0005Bu-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 23:17:00 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGscm-0005TN-Hh; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 23:17:00 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGscG-0005Sn-BK for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 23:16:28 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA13996 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 23:16:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGscD-0005Ba-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 23:16:25 -0500 Received: from shonan.sfc.wide.ad.jp ([203.178.142.130]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGscD-0005BD-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 23:16:25 -0500 Received: from galibier.nautilus6.org (unknown [203.178.138.3]) by shonan.sfc.wide.ad.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 574D25D155; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 13:15:54 +0900 (JST) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 13:10:24 +0900 From: Thierry Ernst To: "James Kempf" Cc: ryuji@sfc.wide.ad.jp, montavont@clarinet.u-strasbg.fr, Basavaraj.Patil@nokia.com, mip6@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Mip6] Draft Agenda for WG meeting at IETF58 Message-Id: <20031104131024.73080028.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> In-Reply-To: <047601c3a255$8feeaf10$9f6015ac@dclkempt40> References: <697DAA22C5004B4596E033803A7CEF44024DB960@daebe007.americas.nokia.com> <3FA28104.9080506@clarinet.u-strasbg.fr> <004601c3a230$e4587c40$9f6015ac@dclkempt40> <047601c3a255$8feeaf10$9f6015ac@dclkempt40> Organization: Keio University X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.8.11 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i686-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Mon, 3 Nov 2003 13:58:05 -0800 "James Kempf" wrote: > For the bar BOF, my objective is to focus on architectural issues with > multilink flows, in an attempt to get clarification re. the aformentioned > problem with general understanding esp. from the IESG. Mobile devices are > naturally high on the list as an application, but any proposal to do > multilink flows will raise the question for fixed devices as well. Hi James, I 100% agree that the issue applies to fixed devices as well. A good example is fixed nodes (LFNs) in a mobile network. As of today I don't know how to deal with a topic that covers work being done in various working groups (MIP6, NEMO, ...), but I guess a starting point is to evaluate in each WG what are the issues that belong to the given WG, and what are those that are common to others. Thierry _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 4 00:06:23 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA15044 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 00:06:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGtOF-00084t-Qc for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 00:06:04 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA4563ow031051 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 00:06:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGtOF-00084k-Lr for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 00:06:03 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA15029 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 00:05:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGtOD-0005hW-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 00:06:01 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGtOD-0005hT-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 00:06:01 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGtOE-00084F-Ei; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 00:06:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGtO7-000835-P6 for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 00:05:55 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA15026 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 00:05:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGtO5-0005hN-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 00:05:53 -0500 Received: from mailout1.samsung.com ([203.254.224.24]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGtO4-0005hC-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 00:05:52 -0500 Received: from custom-daemon.mailout1.samsung.com by mailout1.samsung.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.17 (built Jun 23 2003)) id <0HNT008DSA4Y84@mailout1.samsung.com> for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 14:05:22 +0900 (KST) Received: from ep_mmp2 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailout1.samsung.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.17 (built Jun 23 2003)) with ESMTP id <0HNT00AHHA1QV7@mailout1.samsung.com> for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 14:03:26 +0900 (KST) Received: from LocalHost ([75.2.47.54]) by mmp2.samsung.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.17 (built Jun 23 2003)) with ESMTPA id <0HNT008PGA1QYP@mmp2.samsung.com> for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 14:03:26 +0900 (KST) Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 14:03:25 +0900 From: Heejin Jang Subject: Re: [Mip6] draft-jang-mip6-smreg-00 To: Ryuji Wakikawa Cc: mip6@ietf.org, soohong.park@samsung.com, jinchoe@samsung.com, yh21.han@samsung.com, jh.ch@samsung.com, shubhranshu@samsung.com Message-id: <019b01c3a290$fa5b3ea0$362f024b@LocalHost> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: <007501c39f83$696b55c0$b7cbdba8@daniel> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hi, Wakikawa. Here is inline-comment for your question. :) The main difference between our drafts is whether multiple CoAs are assigned on single interface or different interface. You draft is basically focus on only single interface. right? -> My draft is not limited to single interface. It can be adopted to both the case with single and multiple interfaces. When CoAs are assigned to different interfaces, it is rare to happen movement (i.e. address change) for all CoAs at once. For this reason, I do not introduce optimized mode (i.e. piggyback multiple CoAs into a BU) in my draft. My personal view is that most of CoA is basically changed independently. I think optimized mode is not always efficient for individual management. -> Yeb. until now, I agree with your view that it is rare to happen movement for all CoAs at once. But think about that MN's handoff is supported by the L2 trigger which is discussed actively. Based on L2 trigger, MN can detect its movement immediately after it switches to another link and its multiple interfaces can detect the handover at the same time. Then MN can be assigned CoAs on each interface at the same time supported by optimized dad solutions as i mentioned in my draft. I think that if the CoAs is available on all interface simultaneously, there is no need to send the seperate BUs and this time the number of interfaces doesn't matter. Moreover, you should consider when HA rejects a primary CoA for the binding. Can HA accept non-primary CoAs which is carried by the rejected primary CoA? I don't like that MN uses only the primary CoA to transmit BU to either HA or CN. If the primary CoA goes something wrong or RR status is expired for the primary CoA, MN needs to re-try registration for all CoAs again. -> You can think that seperate BUs/BAs are aggregated to single message respectively when MN wants to register to HA or CN. Just the BUs/BAs are integrated to avoid signaling overhead but the binding processing and its related data structures are handled independently. (according mipv6 draft) And each binding result for each CoA is notified to MN via Multiple CoA binding reply option. The primary binding result is independent on the non-primary bindings. Except the exchange of BU and BA with single msg, the rest part is same when MN issues BUs seperately. MN can retry the registration only for the failed CoAs. regards, Heejin. _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 4 00:23:23 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA15552 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 00:23:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGtei-0000Zy-2d for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 00:23:04 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA45N4Zo002220 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 00:23:04 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGteh-0000ZR-T4 for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 00:23:03 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA15534 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 00:22:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGtef-0005uM-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 00:23:01 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGtef-0005uJ-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 00:23:01 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGtef-0000Wp-6S; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 00:23:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGtec-0000WK-Tk for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 00:22:58 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA15525 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 00:22:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGtea-0005u0-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 00:22:56 -0500 Received: from darkstar.iprg.nokia.com ([205.226.5.69]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGteZ-0005ti-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 00:22:55 -0500 Received: (from root@localhost) by darkstar.iprg.nokia.com (8.11.0/8.11.0-DARKSTAR) id hA45MP327563; Mon, 3 Nov 2003 21:22:25 -0800 X-mProtect: <200311040522> Nokia Silicon Valley Messaging Protection Received: from danira-pool05588.americas.nokia.com (10.241.55.88, claiming to be "iprg.nokia.com") by darkstar.iprg.nokia.com smtpdcFNBjI; Mon, 03 Nov 2003 21:22:22 PST Message-ID: <3FA73766.1070403@iprg.nokia.com> Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 21:21:42 -0800 From: Charlie Perkins Organization: Nokia User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Soliman Hesham CC: mip6@ietf.org Subject: Re: multi-interfaced vs multi-addressed [Re: [Mip6] Draft Agenda for WG meeting at IETF58] References: <748C6D0A58C0F94CA63C198B6674697A01922E6E@ftmail.lab.flarion.com> In-Reply-To: <748C6D0A58C0F94CA63C198B6674697A01922E6E@ftmail.lab.flarion.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Hesham, Soliman Hesham wrote: >=> Here is the problem: Mobile IP allows only one CoA to be bound >to a given HoA, in a node's binding cache. So I should have clarified >that if the communication was with the same CN, then MIP does >not allow the mobile node to use two different CoAs simultaneously. > It does just fine if the mobile node uses return routability. > > Furthermore, I dispute your claim that case 1 has no benefit. > > Clearly, it does when the addresses have separate DNS names. > >=> I didn't think that we'd want CoAs to be put in the >DNS. Case 1 was discussing having two different CoAs. >I was always assuming that the MN will have on HoA. > Ohhh... I was thinking about multiple home addresses here. But, even so, it is possible once again to make use of multiple care of addresses with return routability. Is it a restriction in the "applicability statement" for this thread that a mobile node can only have a single home address? Regards, Charlie P. _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 4 00:43:21 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA16174 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 00:43:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGty3-000240-0q for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 00:43:03 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA45h2LT007926 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 00:43:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGty2-00023l-QC for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 00:43:02 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA16153 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 00:42:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGtxz-0006A7-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 00:43:00 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGtxz-0006A1-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 00:42:59 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGty1-00022D-6y; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 00:43:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGtxF-00020G-JI for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 00:42:13 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA16118 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 00:42:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGtxC-00068p-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 00:42:10 -0500 Received: from mail.flarion.com ([63.103.94.23] helo=ftmail.lab.flarion.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGtxC-00068c-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 00:42:10 -0500 Received: by ftmail.lab.flarion.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) id ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 00:41:36 -0500 Message-ID: <748C6D0A58C0F94CA63C198B6674697A01922E6F@ftmail.lab.flarion.com> From: Soliman Hesham To: "'Charlie Perkins'" Cc: mip6@ietf.org Subject: RE: multi-interfaced vs multi-addressed [Re: [Mip6] Draft Agenda for WG meeting at IETF58] Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 00:41:26 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , > > > Furthermore, I dispute your claim that case 1 has no benefit. > > > Clearly, it does when the addresses have separate DNS names. > > > >=> I didn't think that we'd want CoAs to be put in the > >DNS. Case 1 was discussing having two different CoAs. > >I was always assuming that the MN will have on HoA. > > > Ohhh... I was thinking about multiple home addresses here. > But, even so, > it is possible once again to make use of multiple care of > addresses with > return routability. > > Is it a restriction in the "applicability statement" for > this thread that > a mobile node can only have a single home address? => Not at all. We are trying to look at the problem where a mobile node is communicating with one CN using more than one interface for its connections. I.e. It has more than one connection and it wants to split them across multiple interfaces. This will not work today becuase it would require the CN to maintain multiple BCEs for the same home address (in the case where one hoa is being used). If the MN has multiple home addresses there is still no guarantee that the CN will choose the right MN home address (corresponding to the right interface for that particular connection)when it initiates communication with the MN. If the MN initiates communication then it is possible for it to choose the right home address. There is another case to consider: The MN does not use RO and wants the HA to split its traffic to different CoAs. This requires the home agent to maintain more than one CoA for the same HoA (because you can't gurantee that 1) the MN will have more than one and 2) if it did the right HoA will always be chosen by the CN). This feature is not supported today in MIPv6. 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------=_NextPart_000_0012_76C98691.BD917020-- _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 4 02:00:28 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA18624 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 02:00:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGvAd-00074T-R1 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 02:00:08 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA47076n027142 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 02:00:07 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGvAb-00073X-EW for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 02:00:05 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA18190 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 01:59:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGvAY-0007Ck-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 02:00:02 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGvAX-0007Ch-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 02:00:01 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGvAY-00072x-VD; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 02:00:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGv9y-00071p-SN for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 01:59:26 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA18159 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 01:59:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGv9v-0007BH-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 01:59:23 -0500 Received: from fw.hel.fi.ssh.com ([195.20.116.97]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGv9u-0007BB-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 01:59:22 -0500 Received: from viikuna.hel.fi.ssh.com (viikuna.hel.fi.ssh.com [10.1.0.46]) by fw.hel.fi.ssh.com (SSH-1.16) with SMTP id hA46xNEU018901 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 08:59:23 +0200 (EET) Received: (qmail 11389 invoked from network); 4 Nov 2003 06:59:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ryijy.hel.fi.ssh.com) ([10.1.0.48]) (envelope-sender ) by viikuna.hel.fi.ssh.com (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 4 Nov 2003 06:59:22 -0000 Received: (from kivinen@localhost) by ryijy.hel.fi.ssh.com (8.11.6/8.11.0) id hA46xMw14548; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 08:59:22 +0200 (EET) X-Authentication-Warning: ryijy.hel.fi.ssh.com: kivinen set sender to kivinen@ssh.fi using -f Message-ID: <16295.19962.319491.567422@ryijy.hel.fi.ssh.com> Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 08:58:02 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Tero Kivinen To: mip6@ietf.org X-Authentication-Warning: ryijy.hel.fi.ssh.com: kivinen set sender to kivinen@ssh.fi using -f X-Authentication-Warning: ryijy.hel.fi.ssh.com: kivinen set sender to kivinen@ssh.fi using -f X-Mailer: VM 7.07 under Emacs 20.7.1 X-Edit-Time: 1 min X-Total-Time: 0 min Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Mip6] IKEv2 Mobility and Multihoming BOF Tue, Nov 11, 1700-1800 Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There has been some interest in the IPsec working group to add features to IKEv2 to support roaming, mobility, and multihoming. The IPsec working group decided that those issues are not included as part of the current IKEv2 core protocol, but instead they are handled in separate documents and/or working group. The mobility features are need to support Mobile IP efficiently, and are also used in the cases where devices perform roaming (move around and the IP address changes), and they do want to keep the existing IKE and IPsec SAs in place even when the IP address changes without full rekeying. The features needed include way to update the IKEv2 SA and IPsec SA endpoint addresses without need of the rekeying the SAs, and also authenticating those changes (return routability or similar). Another feature needed is to support multihoming and support having multiple IP addresses tied to one IKEv2 SA and IPsec SA. This support is needed by routers having multiple interfaces, when using SCTP, and in cases where for example mobile device might have multiple different connections to the internet (i.e for example WLAN and GPRS). Some way to authenticate those multiple IP addresses is also needed. The features should then be used by the Mobile IP, HIP, etc working groups as building blocks to create their final protocols, but some of the features can immediately be used in the IPsec VPNs too (client roaming in VPN case, SCTP, multihoming support). The BOF is currently scheduled for Tuesday, November 11, 2003, at 1700-1800. The BOF have some kind of web pages at http://mobike.kivinen.iki.fi/index.html. The web pages have agenda for the meeting, proposed charter and basic introduction to the problem. The BOF mailing list: General Discussion: mobike@machshav.com To subscribe: mobike-request@machshav.com Archive and general information: https://www.machshav.com/mailman/listinfo/mobike The MOBIKE BOF's goal is to verify that we have enough interest to define mobility and multihoming extensions to the current IKEv2 protocol. -- kivinen@ssh.fi SSH Communications Security http://www.ssh.fi/ SSH IPSEC Toolkit http://www.ssh.fi/ipsec/ _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 4 02:11:23 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA29942 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 02:11:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGvLE-0000ON-NV for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 02:11:04 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA47B4E8001501 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 02:11:04 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGvLE-0000O8-4L for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 02:11:04 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA29417 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 02:10:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGvLA-0007LY-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 02:11:00 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGvLA-0007LV-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 02:11:00 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGvLC-0000MU-7A; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 02:11:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGvKU-0000Ef-GW for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 02:10:18 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA28630 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 02:10:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGvKQ-0007Kp-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 02:10:14 -0500 Received: from netcore.fi ([193.94.160.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGvKP-0007KY-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 02:10:14 -0500 Received: from localhost (pekkas@localhost) by netcore.fi (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id hA479dP19497; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 09:09:39 +0200 Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 09:09:39 +0200 (EET) From: Pekka Savola To: Soliman Hesham cc: Thomas Noel , Subject: RE: multi-interfaced vs multi-addressed [Re: [Mip6] Draft Agenda for WG meeting at IETF58] In-Reply-To: <748C6D0A58C0F94CA63C198B6674697A01922E6D@ftmail.lab.flarion.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by netcore.fi id hA479dP19497 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, 3 Nov 2003, Soliman Hesham wrote: > Case 1: The MN has two different addresses on the same interface.=20 > In this case, the characteristics of that i/f is unchanged whether > you use address 1 or address 2. The address itself is irrelevant,=20 > it's the interface it represents that matters. So if both addresses > represent the same interface, then either one will do.=20 > > Case 2: Two addresses on two different interfaces. > Now, the MN may want to put some connections on i/f 1 > and others on i/f 2, why? because i/f 1 is cheap and free > but doesn't provide QoS for instance so it's ok to put my=20 > web browsing on that. On the other hand i/f 2 provides QoS > (for a price) so I'll only use it for real time apps. Right, but the addresses assigned on the interface might have different properties even if assigned on a single interface, e.g. "expensive" and "cheap" ISP. I certainly agree that the multi-interface scenarios are typically more=20 motivating, but what I'm look=EDng for is a technical explanation *why*=20 these issues are different with multiple interfaces.. because in many=20 cases, you just don't need to care -- if you can support multiple=20 addresses, you get multiple interfaces free! (And, looking at the problem statement, it seems that case 1 would requir= e=20 some modifications on its own if you want to distinguish the use use of=20 addresses somehow..) That is, I'd like to get people out of this "multiple interfaces are special" mindset unless it's really warranted -- just consider them addresses of different properties! --=20 Pekka Savola "You each name yourselves king, yet the Netcore Oy kingdom bleeds." Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 4 02:24:25 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA01628 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 02:24:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGvXr-0002I7-2I for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 02:24:07 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA47O6JK008800 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 02:24:06 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGvXp-0002Hr-0H for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 02:24:05 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA01624 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 02:23:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGvXl-0007W1-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 02:24:01 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGvXk-0007Vy-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 02:24:00 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGvXl-0002HI-Bs; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 02:24:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGvXG-0002GC-QE for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 02:23:30 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA01610 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 02:23:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGvXC-0007Vn-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 02:23:26 -0500 Received: from mail.flarion.com ([63.103.94.23] helo=ftmail.lab.flarion.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGvXB-0007Vk-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 02:23:25 -0500 Received: by ftmail.lab.flarion.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) id ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 02:22:57 -0500 Message-ID: <748C6D0A58C0F94CA63C198B6674697A01922E71@ftmail.lab.flarion.com> From: Soliman Hesham To: "'Pekka Savola'" Cc: Thomas Noel , mip6@ietf.org Subject: RE: multi-interfaced vs multi-addressed [Re: [Mip6] Draft Agenda for WG meeting at IETF58] Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 02:22:53 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > On Mon, 3 Nov 2003, Soliman Hesham wrote: > > Case 1: The MN has two different addresses on the same interface.=20 > > In this case, the characteristics of that i/f is unchanged whether > > you use address 1 or address 2. The address itself is irrelevant,=20 > > it's the interface it represents that matters. So if both = addresses > > represent the same interface, then either one will do.=20 > > > > Case 2: Two addresses on two different interfaces. > > Now, the MN may want to put some connections on i/f 1 > > and others on i/f 2, why? because i/f 1 is cheap and free > > but doesn't provide QoS for instance so it's ok to put my=20 > > web browsing on that. On the other hand i/f 2 provides QoS > > (for a price) so I'll only use it for real time apps. >=20 > Right, but the addresses assigned on the interface might=20 > have different > properties even if assigned on a single interface, e.g.=20 > "expensive" and > "cheap" ISP. =3D> Sure, but generally we seem to have made the assumption=20 that different ISPs do not share the same links in a way that makes them both visible to the IP layer. Maybe this is something that needs to be revisited but as you said it's not critical to the MIPv6 part of=20 the solution. >=20 > I certainly agree that the multi-interface scenarios are=20 > typically more=20 > motivating, but what I'm look=EDng for is a technical=20 > explanation *why*=20 > these issues are different with multiple interfaces..=20 > because in many=20 > cases, you just don't need to care -- if you can support multiple=20 > addresses, you get multiple interfaces free! =3D> Well, I see where you're coming from and I agree to a large extent. But when explaining the scenarios it just seems more relevant to use multiple interfaces.=20 As for the difference between multiple addresses and=20 multiple interfaces, the only technical issue here is=20 the support of multiple routing tables Vs a single global table. I think one table per interface is infinitely more flexible. But none of this is critical to the MIPv6 part of the solution. > (And, looking at the problem statement, it seems that case 1=20 > would require=20 > some modifications on its own if you want to distinguish the=20 > use use of=20 > addresses somehow..) =3D> If you want to do that, there are some serious questions to be asked about how those ISPs got to share the same link and made themselves visible to the IP layer, simultaneously.=20 We can take it off list or in a separate thread if you want. There is a number of issues here mostly irrelevant to MIPv6 and relevant to IPv6. Hesham _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 4 02:43:23 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA02269 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 02:43:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGvqD-0003sg-5d for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 02:43:06 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA47h4HY014918 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 02:43:05 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGvqC-0003sX-FO for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 02:43:04 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA02263 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 02:42:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGvq8-00006g-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 02:43:00 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGvq8-00006d-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 02:43:00 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGvq9-0003s5-Kf; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 02:43:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGvpN-0003pK-ET for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 02:42:13 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA02254 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 02:42:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGvpJ-00006S-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 02:42:09 -0500 Received: from clarinet.u-strasbg.fr ([130.79.90.157]) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGvpI-00006P-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 02:42:09 -0500 Received: (qmail 493 invoked for bounce); 4 Nov 2003 07:42:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr) (noel@unknown) by unknown with RC4-MD5 encrypted SMTP; 4 Nov 2003 07:42:14 -0000 Message-ID: <3FA75859.3080305@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr> Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 08:42:17 +0100 From: Thomas Noel User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031013 Thunderbird/0.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: James Kempf CC: Nicolas Montavont , Basavaraj.Patil@nokia.com, ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp, mip6@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Mip6] Draft Agenda for WG meeting at IETF58 References: <697DAA22C5004B4596E033803A7CEF44024DB960@daebe007.americas.nokia.com> <3FA28104.9080506@clarinet.u-strasbg.fr> <004601c3a230$e4587c40$9f6015ac@dclkempt40> <3FA6B4BA.6050100@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr> <045a01c3a254$69d05780$9f6015ac@dclkempt40> In-Reply-To: <045a01c3a254$69d05780$9f6015ac@dclkempt40> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit James, > Who said it was a research problem? See below a previous email in the ML >>I am aware of the various drafts addressing this. But I do not see why >>this is a critical need for the WG to take on at this time. I do not >>for example see a large number of people in the WG demanding that this >>be a work item because it is absolutely a MUST for mobile IPv6 to be >>deployed. What you are cooking in your lab may be interesting but is >>not necessarily needed by the industry at this time > My point was that it is an architectural > problem, regardless of whether any commercial products have multiple > interfaces or not. Agree > A bit of history may be instructive. The IESG instructed the SCTP group to > remove multilink flows from the SCTP RFC because the architectural impact > was not understood. Now if you, Nicolas, Thierry and everybody else who is > pushing for multilink support in Mobile IP want to see it happen, it might > be prudent to show some understanding of the architectural impact, > otherwise, anything you come up with (including a proposal to put it into > the MIP6 charter) may suffer the same fate. Totally agree, for this reason we push to discuss this topic at the next IETF. And once more, we would like to discuss the problem statement before solutions. > > In other words (to be fairly blunt since the subtle approach does not seem > to be succeeding), I am trying to help you maximize your chances of getting > this work accepted by the IESG. Thanks Thomas _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 4 02:47:20 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA02380 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 02:47:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGvu2-00045O-DS for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 02:47:02 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA47l2bF015686 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 02:47:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGvu1-000443-Q7 for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 02:47:01 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA02361 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 02:46:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGvtx-0000BH-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 02:46:58 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGvtx-0000BE-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 02:46:57 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGvu0-000432-Cn; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 02:47:00 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGvtY-00041e-WC for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 02:46:33 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA02335 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 02:46:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGvtV-0000Ak-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 02:46:29 -0500 Received: from netcore.fi ([193.94.160.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGvtU-0000AT-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 02:46:28 -0500 Received: from localhost (pekkas@localhost) by netcore.fi (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id hA47jsS20062; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 09:45:54 +0200 Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 09:45:53 +0200 (EET) From: Pekka Savola To: Soliman Hesham cc: Thomas Noel , Subject: RE: multi-interfaced vs multi-addressed [Re: [Mip6] Draft Agenda for WG meeting at IETF58] In-Reply-To: <748C6D0A58C0F94CA63C198B6674697A01922E71@ftmail.lab.flarion.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Soliman Hesham wrote: [...] > => If you want to do that, there are some serious questions > to be asked about how those ISPs got to share the same link > and made themselves visible to the IP layer, simultaneously. > We can take it off list or in a separate thread if you want. > There is a number of issues here mostly irrelevant to MIPv6 > and relevant to IPv6. It's not just this. One concrete example is a home network, where there are two ADSL routers connected to two ISPs, and a signle Ethernet link where both the routers advertise their prefixes -- and a mobile node attached to that link. The key point is that e.g. in scenarios related to site multihoming, the addresses may have different properties although the end-nodes would only have a single interface. -- Pekka Savola "You each name yourselves king, yet the Netcore Oy kingdom bleeds." Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 4 02:57:21 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA02678 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 02:57:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGw3j-0004wS-Pl for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 02:57:03 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA47v3S9018926 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 02:57:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGw3j-0004vB-3p for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 02:57:03 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA02672 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 02:56:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGw3f-0000JO-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 02:56:59 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGw3e-0000JL-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 02:56:58 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGw3h-0004ud-SG; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 02:57:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGw3L-0004tk-0W for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 02:56:39 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA02666 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 02:56:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGw3H-0000J3-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 02:56:35 -0500 Received: from shonan.sfc.wide.ad.jp ([203.178.142.130]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGw3G-0000Ia-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 02:56:34 -0500 Received: from galibier.nautilus6.org (unknown [203.178.138.3]) by shonan.sfc.wide.ad.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 597E85D0B1 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 16:56:04 +0900 (JST) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 16:50:33 +0900 From: Thierry Ernst To: mip6@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Mip6] Multihomed Mobile Nodes Message-Id: <20031104165033.7fcf856b.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> In-Reply-To: <20031031170118.5f203cb5.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> References: <20031031170118.5f203cb5.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> Organization: Keio University X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.8.11 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i686-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear all, Just being curious, who has read the Multihoming Problem Statement draft ? http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-montavont-mobileip-multihoming-pb-statement-00.txt Comments as directed below or of any other kind are welcome. Thierry. Thierry Ernst wrote: > Dear all, > > As you know there have been a number of drafts dealing around the issues > of multihomed mobile nodes, including > draft-montavont-mobileip-multihoming-pb-statement-00.txt > > > The intend of the draft is to list the cases where a MN is multihomed, > and the issues that must be addressed at large to allow this > configuration. So, the real intend is to investigate what are the issues > peculiar to MIPv6, and other issues not peculiar to MIPv6. I guess that > there is no other group in a better position than MIPv6 to understand > the issues peculiar to MIP6. May be the solutions can be divised in > other WGs, but a prior work for this is for the MIP6 group to give > comments. > > In order to introduce the discussion, may I ask the following questions > to the list (including authors of the other drafts): > > - if people agree with the definition of multihoming ? > - is there any case (the one you the most concerned about) which is not > covered by the definition ? > - if people agree with the issues ? > - what are the missing issues we need to consider ? > - where should the issues be solved ? > > > Get the draft here: http://clarinet.u-strasbg.fr/~montavont/ > > Abstract: > ~~~~~~~~~ > Individual solutions have been proposed to extend Mobile IPv6 in > order to allow mobile nodes to be multihomed, but all issues have not > been addressed by a single document. In this document, we thus propose a > taxonomy to classify the situations where a mobile node may be > multihomed. This taxonomy is then used to describe all multihomed > scenarios. Issues preventing mobile nodes to be multihomed while > operating Mobile IPv6 are highlighted. This document doesn't aim at > proposing solutions, however, it is expected to raise discussion in > order to make sure forthcoming solutions will address all the issues. > > _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 4 03:00:27 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA02782 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 03:00:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGw6j-0005S9-GW for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 03:00:09 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA4808eA020824 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 03:00:08 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGw6d-0005P5-M4 for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 03:00:03 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA02744 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 02:59:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGw6Z-0000Kz-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 02:59:59 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGw6Y-0000Ku-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 02:59:58 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGw6b-0005OP-KT; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 03:00:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGw5m-0005NH-9u for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 02:59:10 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA02728 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 02:58:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGw5i-0000KT-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 02:59:06 -0500 Received: from mail.flarion.com ([63.103.94.23] helo=ftmail.lab.flarion.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGw5h-0000KI-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 02:59:05 -0500 Received: by ftmail.lab.flarion.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) id ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 02:58:37 -0500 Message-ID: <748C6D0A58C0F94CA63C198B6674697A01922E72@ftmail.lab.flarion.com> From: Soliman Hesham To: "'Pekka Savola'" Cc: Thomas Noel , mip6@ietf.org Subject: RE: multi-interfaced vs multi-addressed [Re: [Mip6] Draft Agenda for WG meeting at IETF58] Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 02:58:27 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , > > => If you want to do that, there are some serious questions > > to be asked about how those ISPs got to share the same link > > and made themselves visible to the IP layer, simultaneously. > > We can take it off list or in a separate thread if you want. > > There is a number of issues here mostly irrelevant to MIPv6 > > and relevant to IPv6. > > It's not just this. One concrete example is a home network, > where there > are two ADSL routers connected to two ISPs, and a signle > Ethernet link > where both the routers advertise their prefixes -- and a mobile node > attached to that link. > > The key point is that e.g. in scenarios related to site > multihoming, the > addresses may have different properties although the > end-nodes would only > have a single interface. => Yes and this is applicable to nemo as well. This seems like an issue for IPv6 to handle: i.e. associating certain properties to a prefix. Either multi6 or IPv6 should handle this imo. Hesham > > -- > Pekka Savola "You each name yourselves king, yet the > Netcore Oy kingdom bleeds." > Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings > _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 4 03:04:27 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA02913 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 03:04:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGwAb-0005dT-Jp for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 03:04:09 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA4849Ld021654 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 03:04:09 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGwAb-0005cz-4Z for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 03:04:09 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA02903 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 03:03:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGwAU-0000Q7-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 03:04:02 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGwAT-0000Q4-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 03:04:01 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGwAU-0005aq-2V; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 03:04:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGwA6-0005Z3-7a for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 03:03:38 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA02881 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 03:03:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGwA2-0000Pa-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 03:03:34 -0500 Received: from netcore.fi ([193.94.160.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGwA1-0000PB-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 03:03:33 -0500 Received: from localhost (pekkas@localhost) by netcore.fi (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id hA4832f20391; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 10:03:02 +0200 Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 10:03:01 +0200 (EET) From: Pekka Savola To: Soliman Hesham cc: Thomas Noel , Subject: RE: multi-interfaced vs multi-addressed [Re: [Mip6] Draft Agenda for WG meeting at IETF58] In-Reply-To: <748C6D0A58C0F94CA63C198B6674697A01922E72@ftmail.lab.flarion.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Soliman Hesham wrote: > => Yes and this is applicable to nemo as well. > This seems like an issue for IPv6 to handle: i.e. > associating certain properties to a prefix. Either > multi6 or IPv6 should handle this imo. Carrying your statement a bit further, I must conclude that we should fix the underlying issues proposed to be fixed in multi-interface MIPv6 extensions in multi6 or IPv6 as well? That might certainly make sense, as there is very little MIPv6-specific with multiple interfaces which is not present with multiple addresses w/ one interface. Let's close shop, we're done! -- Pekka Savola "You each name yourselves king, yet the Netcore Oy kingdom bleeds." Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 4 03:06:20 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA02955 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 03:06:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGwCR-0005iV-7B for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 03:06:03 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA4863vI021969 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 03:06:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGwCQ-0005iG-VP for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 03:06:03 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA02947 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 03:05:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGwCM-0000R5-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 03:05:59 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGwCM-0000R2-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 03:05:58 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGwCP-0005hk-QM; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 03:06:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGwBf-0005gS-Jb for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 03:05:15 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA02939 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 03:05:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGwBb-0000Qh-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 03:05:11 -0500 Received: from clarinet.u-strasbg.fr ([130.79.90.157]) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGwBa-0000Qe-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 03:05:10 -0500 Received: (qmail 695 invoked for bounce); 4 Nov 2003 08:05:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO clarinet.u-strasbg.fr) (montavont@unknown) by unknown with RC4-MD5 encrypted SMTP; 4 Nov 2003 08:05:17 -0000 Message-ID: <3FA75D8B.5000609@clarinet.u-strasbg.fr> Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 09:04:27 +0100 From: Nicolas Montavont User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030727 Thunderbird/0.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Pekka Savola CC: Soliman Hesham , Thomas Noel , mip6@ietf.org Subject: Re: multi-interfaced vs multi-addressed [Re: [Mip6] Draft Agenda for WG meeting at IETF58] References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ietf.org id DAA02940 Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Pekka, Pekka Savola wrote: >On Mon, 3 Nov 2003, Soliman Hesham wrote: > =20 > >>Case 1: The MN has two different addresses on the same interface.=20 >>In this case, the characteristics of that i/f is unchanged whether >>you use address 1 or address 2. The address itself is irrelevant,=20 >>it's the interface it represents that matters. So if both addresses >>represent the same interface, then either one will do.=20 >> >>Case 2: Two addresses on two different interfaces. >>Now, the MN may want to put some connections on i/f 1 >>and others on i/f 2, why? because i/f 1 is cheap and free >>but doesn't provide QoS for instance so it's ok to put my=20 >>web browsing on that. On the other hand i/f 2 provides QoS >>(for a price) so I'll only use it for real time apps. >> =20 >> > >Right, but the addresses assigned on the interface might have different >properties even if assigned on a single interface, e.g. "expensive" and >"cheap" ISP. > >I certainly agree that the multi-interface scenarios are typically more=20 >motivating, but what I'm look=EDng for is a technical explanation *why*=20 >these issues are different with multiple interfaces.. because in many=20 >cases, you just don't need to care -- if you can support multiple=20 >addresses, you get multiple interfaces free! > Of course multiple interfaces is a more interesting scenario, but, as we=20 suggest in our draft on problem statement, we would like to consider=20 "multihomed MN" that we defined as : - multi-prefixed - multi-interfaced - multi-linked - multi-sited Multi-interfaces MN is then a subset of multihomed MN. Nicolas > >(And, looking at the problem statement, it seems that case 1 would requi= re=20 >some modifications on its own if you want to distinguish the use use of=20 >addresses somehow..) > >That is, I'd like to get people out of this "multiple interfaces are >special" mindset unless it's really warranted -- just consider them >addresses of different properties! > > =20 > _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 4 03:23:24 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA03331 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 03:23:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGwSv-0006nC-5F for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 03:23:05 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA48N5Mj026111 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 03:23:05 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGwSu-0006n4-1L for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 03:23:04 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA03326 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 03:22:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGwSr-0000c8-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 03:23:01 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGwSr-0000c5-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 03:23:01 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGwSs-0006mc-J8; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 03:23:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGwSl-0006mF-9L for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 03:22:55 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA03319 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 03:22:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGwSi-0000by-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 03:22:52 -0500 Received: from mail.flarion.com ([63.103.94.23] helo=ftmail.lab.flarion.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGwSi-0000bl-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 03:22:52 -0500 Received: by ftmail.lab.flarion.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) id ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 03:22:18 -0500 Message-ID: <748C6D0A58C0F94CA63C198B6674697A01922E73@ftmail.lab.flarion.com> From: Soliman Hesham To: "'Pekka Savola'" Cc: Thomas Noel , mip6@ietf.org Subject: RE: multi-interfaced vs multi-addressed [Re: [Mip6] Draft Agenda for WG meeting at IETF58] Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 03:22:13 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , > On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Soliman Hesham wrote: > > => Yes and this is applicable to nemo as well. > > This seems like an issue for IPv6 to handle: i.e. > > associating certain properties to a prefix. Either > > multi6 or IPv6 should handle this imo. > > Carrying your statement a bit further, I must conclude that > we should fix > the underlying issues proposed to be fixed in multi-interface MIPv6 > extensions in multi6 or IPv6 as well? => :) Is this a trick question ? ;) Multi6/ipv6 only need to be involved to solve the problem of associating certain attributes to a prefix. MIPv6 needs to allow for more than one coa to be associated with a single hoa. Implementers need to put the pieces together and do their own interface/coa selection algorithms. > > That might certainly make sense, as there is very little > MIPv6-specific > with multiple interfaces which is not present with multiple > addresses w/ > one interface. => Yes, but both cases require MIPv6 to handle more than one coa for a single hoa binding. Hesham > > > Let's close shop, we're done! > > > -- > Pekka Savola "You each name yourselves king, yet the > Netcore Oy kingdom bleeds." > Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings > _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 4 03:29:25 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA03510 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 03:29:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGwYk-0007Ic-9j for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 03:29:06 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA48T5UP027967 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 03:29:05 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGwYi-0007Gu-Uq for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 03:29:05 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA03501 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 03:28:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGwYg-0000fp-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 03:29:02 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGwYg-0000fm-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 03:29:02 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGwYf-0007FF-QS; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 03:29:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGwYI-0007Eb-7C for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 03:28:38 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA03465 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 03:28:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGwYF-0000fT-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 03:28:35 -0500 Received: from clarinet.u-strasbg.fr ([130.79.90.157]) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGwYE-0000fQ-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 03:28:35 -0500 Received: (qmail 873 invoked for bounce); 4 Nov 2003 08:28:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr) (noel@unknown) by unknown with RC4-MD5 encrypted SMTP; 4 Nov 2003 08:28:41 -0000 Message-ID: <3FA7633B.1060504@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr> Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 09:28:43 +0100 From: Thomas Noel User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031013 Thunderbird/0.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Soliman Hesham CC: "'Pekka Savola'" , mip6@ietf.org Subject: Re: multi-interfaced vs multi-addressed [Re: [Mip6] Draft Agenda for WG meeting at IETF58] References: <748C6D0A58C0F94CA63C198B6674697A01922E73@ftmail.lab.flarion.com> In-Reply-To: <748C6D0A58C0F94CA63C198B6674697A01922E73@ftmail.lab.flarion.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > => :) Is this a trick question ? ;) > > Multi6/ipv6 only need to be involved to solve the problem > of associating certain attributes to a prefix. MIPv6 needs > to allow for more than one coa to be associated with a single > hoa. Implementers need to put the pieces together and do > their own interface/coa selection algorithms. That's exactly the issue :-)) Thomas _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 4 03:59:28 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA04525 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 03:59:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGx1m-0001rl-4z for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 03:59:09 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA48x58N007117 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 03:59:05 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGx1j-0001qi-UD for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 03:59:03 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA04515 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 03:58:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGx1h-0001CO-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 03:59:01 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGx1h-0001CL-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 03:59:01 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGx1h-0001qF-Rq; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 03:59:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGx1Y-0001q1-UJ for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 03:58:52 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA04512 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 03:58:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGx1W-0001CH-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 03:58:50 -0500 Received: from shaku.sfc.wide.ad.jp ([203.178.143.49]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGx1V-0001CE-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 03:58:49 -0500 Received: from monster.sfc.wide.ad.jp.sfc.wide.ad.jp (pae11b2.tkyoac00.ap.so-net.ne.jp [210.174.17.178]) (authenticated bits=0) by shaku.sfc.wide.ad.jp (8.12.10/8.12.0) with ESMTP id hA48wi4u007865; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 17:58:45 +0900 Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 17:54:33 +0900 Message-ID: From: Ryuji Wakikawa To: kempf@docomolabs-usa.com Cc: vijayd@iprg.nokia.com, mip6@ietf.org Subject: Re: Purpose of the BID (was: Re: [Mip6] Comments on draft-wakikawa-mobileip-multiplecoa-02.txt) In-Reply-To: <059601c3a261$47226630$9f6015ac@dclkempt40> References: <000101c3a228$a90d2b70$9f6015ac@dclkempt40> <3FA69E9E.8080902@iprg.nokia.com> <052101c3a258$d6c1c230$9f6015ac@dclkempt40> <3FA6D8D5.7060503@iprg.nokia.com> <059601c3a261$47226630$9f6015ac@dclkempt40> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.8.1 (Something) SEMI/1.14.3 (Ushinoya) FLIM/1.14.3 (=?ISO-8859-4?Q?Unebigory=F2mae?=) APEL/10.3 Emacs/20.7 (i386--freebsd) MULE/4.1 (AOI) Organization: Keio University MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.3 - "Ushinoya") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , At Mon, 3 Nov 2003 15:21:57 -0800, James Kempf wrote: > > > > > > > > If the multiple CoAs are all on one host, then isn't the net effect of > the > > > BID to act as an endpoint identifier for the host? > > > > not really. the Home Address is still the identifier. infact > > there is one BID per CoA. each BID identifies a particular > > CoA from the set of CoAs associated with a particular home > > address. > > > > Here's a quote from Section 1: > > In this document, we thus propose a new identification number called > Binding Unique Identification number (BID) for each binding cache > entry to accommodate multiple bindings registration. We also propose > extension of binding cache management to store the BID and a new > sub-option for binding update to carry the BID. The BID is assigned > to either the interfaces or care-of addresses bound to a single > home address of a mobile node. The mobile node notifies the BID > to both its home agent and correspondent nodes by means of a BU. > Correspondent nodes and the home agent record the BID into their > binding cache. The home address thus identifies a mobile node itself > whereas the BID identifies each binding registered by a mobile node. > By using the BID, multiple bindings can then be distinguished. > > Up until the last sentence, it sounds to me as if the purpose of the BID is > to unify all the CoAs under one HoA. In fact, even the last sentence could > be read as that if a "binding" is meant to include the binding of multiple > CoAs to an HoA. > > Later on in the draft (viz. Section 3) it also appears as if the BID is used > in this manner. > > In Section 5.1, we finally learn: > > A mobile node assigns BID to each care-of address when it wants to > simultaneously register with its home address. The value should be > generated from 1 to 65535. Zero and negative value can not be take > as BID. If a mobile node has only one care-of address, assignment of > BID is not needed until it has multiple care-of addresses to register > as a binding. > > So, yes, you are right, it is not used as a partial node identifier, it is > used just to identify the binding. I will update BID definition in the next version. > Which increases my confusion about why it is needed. Couldn't the MN simply > send a HoA/CoA pair when it wanted to identify the binding? Here is example. MN has two i/f and registers two CoAs for a single HoA. When the i/f-1 is attached to a new visited link (ie.movement), MN wants to update its binding by replacing the older CoA with the new CoA aquired by the i/f-1. Since the value of CoA is already changed, how can MN update the particular binding by using newCoA and HoA set? HA can not figure out which binding should be updated with the receiving Binding Update(NewCoA and HoA pair). The CoA/HoA pair does not help to identify particular binding, because CoA is variable. regards, ryuji _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 4 04:43:27 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA05942 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 04:43:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGxiN-0005K9-By for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 04:43:08 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA49h7vj020465 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 04:43:07 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGxiM-0005Ju-Q0 for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 04:43:06 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA05928 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 04:42:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGxiJ-0001sP-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 04:43:03 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGxiI-0001sM-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 04:43:03 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGxiH-0005JO-UZ; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 04:43:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGxhN-0005Hz-8H for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 04:42:05 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA05887 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 04:41:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGxhK-0001r9-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 04:42:02 -0500 Received: from clarinet.u-strasbg.fr ([130.79.90.157]) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGxhJ-0001r6-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 04:42:01 -0500 Received: (qmail 1408 invoked for bounce); 4 Nov 2003 09:42:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO clarinet.u-strasbg.fr) (montavont@unknown) by unknown with RC4-MD5 encrypted SMTP; 4 Nov 2003 09:42:08 -0000 Message-ID: <3FA7743E.4010908@clarinet.u-strasbg.fr> Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 10:41:18 +0100 From: Nicolas Montavont User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030727 Thunderbird/0.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Pekka Savola CC: Soliman Hesham , Thomas Noel , mip6@ietf.org Subject: Re: multi-interfaced vs multi-addressed [Re: [Mip6] Draft Agenda for WG meeting at IETF58] References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Pekka Savola wrote: >On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Soliman Hesham wrote: > > >>=> Yes and this is applicable to nemo as well. >>This seems like an issue for IPv6 to handle: i.e. >>associating certain properties to a prefix. Either >>multi6 or IPv6 should handle this imo. >> >> > >Carrying your statement a bit further, I must conclude that we should fix >the underlying issues proposed to be fixed in multi-interface MIPv6 >extensions in multi6 or IPv6 as well? > We considered to send our draft on mulithoming pb statement to multi6, but it seems to us that it is not the right WG. As far as I know, they only focus on site-multihoming. But I agree that it is difficult to find the right WG, because this pb relies to many WG. Nicolas > >That might certainly make sense, as there is very little MIPv6-specific >with multiple interfaces which is not present with multiple addresses w/ >one interface. > > >Let's close shop, we're done! > > > > _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 4 05:09:29 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA06538 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 05:09:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGy7b-00070R-Tg for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 05:09:12 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA4A9BOe026919 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 05:09:11 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGy7V-0006ys-OM for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 05:09:05 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA06527 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 05:08:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGy7S-0002Cr-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 05:09:02 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGy7R-0002Co-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 05:09:01 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGy7T-0006y9-AL; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 05:09:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGy6W-0006pK-Ep for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 05:08:04 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA06516 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 05:07:51 -0500 (EST) From: xiaobao.chen@orange.co.uk Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGy6S-0002CS-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 05:08:01 -0500 Received: from mail32.messagelabs.com ([62.173.108.211]) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGy6S-0002CG-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 05:08:00 -0500 X-VirusChecked: Checked X-Env-Sender: xiaobao.chen@orange.co.uk X-Msg-Ref: server-19.tower-32.messagelabs.com!1067940388!3121884 X-StarScan-Version: 5.1.13; banners=-,-,- Received: (qmail 12481 invoked from network); 4 Nov 2003 10:06:28 -0000 Received: from smtpout10.orange.co.uk (HELO hagrid.orange.co.uk) (193.35.135.133) by server-19.tower-32.messagelabs.com with SMTP; 4 Nov 2003 10:06:28 -0000 Received: from bot.orange.co.uk (bot.orange.co.uk) by hagrid.orange.co.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.3.6) with ESMTP id ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 10:06:28 +0000 Received: from ruddick (notes-gw.orange.co.uk [172.16.133.18]) by bot.orange.co.uk with SMTP id hA4A6Rd04164; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 10:06:27 GMT X-Lotus-FromDomain: HTLUK To: Vijay Devarapalli cc: mip6@ietf.org, martin.harris@orange.co.uk, nick.sampson@orange.co.uk, sulina.connal@orange.co.uk, calum.lean@orange.co.uk, mwatson@nortelnetworks.com Message-ID: <80256DD4.00379054.00@ruddick> Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 10:09:36 +0000 Subject: Re: [Mip6] Draft Agenda for WG meeting at IETF58 in relation to 3G Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Disposition: inline Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Thanks for the clarification. Attached below is the pointer to an ID that describes the scenarios where the deployment of Mobile IPv6 in a 3GPP standard compliant network may become a problem. Comments are welcome. http://gk.umtstrial.co.uk/~chen/draft-chen-mip6-gprs-00.txt Xiaobao Chen From: Vijay Devarapalli on 27/10/2003 16:29 To: Xiaobao CHEN/EN/HTLUK@HTLUK cc: Basavaraj.Patil@nokia.com mip6@ietf.org Martin HARRIS/EN/HTLUK@HTLUK Nick SAMPSON/EN/HTLUK@HTLUK Sulina CONNAL/LE/HTLUK@HTLUK Subject: Re: [Mip6] Draft Agenda for WG meeting at IETF58 in relation to 3G xiaobao.chen@orange.co.uk wrote: > Vijay and all, > > It is stated in the charter that "The primary goal of the MIP6 working group > will be to enhance base > IPv6 mobility by continuing work on developments that are required for > wide-scale deployments." I assume that the "the developments that are required > for wide-scale deployments" include the issues of deploying Mobile IPv6 in > 3G. yes, ofcourse. but I didnt get what you are trying to say. do you see issues in deploying Mobile IPv6 in 3G (pp/pp2)? if so, please bring them up either on the mailing list or in the WG meeting. IMO, fixing those issues is high priority. Vijay _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 ******************************************************************************* Important. Confidentiality: This communication is intended for the above-named person and may be confidential and/or legally privileged. Any opinions expressed in this communication are not necessarily those of the company. If it has come to you in error you must take no action based on it, nor must you copy or show it to anyone; please delete/destroy and inform the sender immediately. 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Sure.. that might be useful work, but that does not eliminate the problem for a MN w/ 1 interface but 2 addresses. > MIPv6 needs > to allow for more than one coa to be associated with a single > hoa. Correct as well.. (but see more below) But you seem to be neglecting the case where a single interface, but multi-addressed host would act as a Mobile Node. It needs MIPv6 mechanisms as well. Just using multi6/ipv6 for recognizing attributes of a prefix is not enough! > > That might certainly make sense, as there is very little > > MIPv6-specific > > with multiple interfaces which is not present with multiple > > addresses w/ > > one interface. > > => Yes, but both cases require MIPv6 to handle more than one > coa for a single hoa binding. Exactly -- which is why solving the generic problem in MIPv6 (the coa-hoa bindings) is probably necessary. I'm not sure if we've spelled out whether it's absolutely necessary -- e.g., could it be possible to use different HoA's for different CoA's? But I fail to see anything relating to interfaces in the actual problem statement -- which was the point. -- Pekka Savola "You each name yourselves king, yet the Netcore Oy kingdom bleeds." Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 4 05:51:22 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA08239 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 05:51:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGym8-0002Ty-Jd for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 05:51:05 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA4Ap4UT009536 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 05:51:04 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGym8-0002Tj-DK for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 05:51:04 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA08215 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 05:50:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGym4-0002wf-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 05:51:00 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGym4-0002wc-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 05:51:00 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGym7-0002TE-4I; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 05:51:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGylK-0002SY-Hf for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 05:50:14 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA08203 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 05:50:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGylG-0002wH-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 05:50:10 -0500 Received: from sam.comnets.uni-bremen.de ([134.102.186.10] helo=bugs.comnets.uni-bremen.de) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGylG-0002wE-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 05:50:10 -0500 Received: from scoobydoo (scoobydoo.comnets.uni-bremen.de [134.102.155.152]) by bugs.comnets.uni-bremen.de (8.11.0/8.11.0/SuSE Linux 8.11.0-0.4) with ESMTP id hA4Ao6Q13060; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:50:06 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: bugs.comnets.uni-bremen.de: Host scoobydoo.comnets.uni-bremen.de [134.102.155.152] claimed to be scoobydoo From: "Koojana Kuladinithi" To: "'Ryuji Wakikawa'" , Cc: , Subject: AW: Purpose of the BID (was: Re: [Mip6] Comments on draft-wakikawa-mobileip-multiplecoa-02.txt) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:50:05 +0100 Message-ID: <002001c3a2c1$6860fb80$989b6686@scoobydoo> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, Please find the answer in line > James Kempf wrote: > > > > > > > > > Here's a quote from Section 1: > > > > In this document, we thus propose a new identification number = called > > Binding Unique Identification number (BID) for each binding cache > > entry to accommodate multiple bindings registration. We also = propose > > extension of binding cache management to store the BID and a new > > sub-option for binding update to carry the BID. The BID is = assigned > > to either the interfaces or care-of addresses bound to a single > > home address of a mobile node. The mobile node notifies the BID > > to both its home agent and correspondent nodes by means of a BU. > > Correspondent nodes and the home agent record the BID into their > > binding cache. The home address thus identifies a mobile node = itself > > whereas the BID identifies each binding registered by a mobile = node. > > By using the BID, multiple bindings can then be distinguished. > > > > Up until the last sentence, it sounds to me as if the purpose of the = BID > is > > to unify all the CoAs under one HoA. In fact, even the last sentence > could > > be read as that if a "binding" is meant to include the binding of > multiple > > CoAs to an HoA. > > > > Later on in the draft (viz. Section 3) it also appears as if the BID = is > used > > in this manner. > > > > In Section 5.1, we finally learn: > > > > A mobile node assigns BID to each care-of address when it wants = to > > simultaneously register with its home address. The value should = be > > generated from 1 to 65535. Zero and negative value can not be = take > > as BID. If a mobile node has only one care-of address, assignment = of > > BID is not needed until it has multiple care-of addresses to = register > > as a binding. > > > > So, yes, you are right, it is not used as a partial node identifier, = it > is > > used just to identify the binding. >=20 > I will update BID definition in the next version. >=20 > > Which increases my confusion about why it is needed. Couldn't the MN > simply > > send a HoA/CoA pair when it wanted to identify the binding? >=20 > Here is example. >=20 > MN has two i/f and registers two CoAs for a single HoA. > When the i/f-1 is attached to a new visited link (ie.movement), MN > wants to update its binding by replacing the older CoA with the new > CoA aquired by the i/f-1. >=20 > Since the value of CoA is already changed, how can MN update the > particular binding by using newCoA and HoA set? HA can not figure out > which binding should be updated with the receiving Binding > Update(NewCoA and HoA pair). >=20 > The CoA/HoA pair does not help to identify particular binding, because > CoA is variable. NOMADv6 draft (draft-nomadv6-mobileip-filters-01.txt) looks at this = problem in a different way. It has no separate Identifier like the BID.=20 It enhances having multiple interfaces to the Internet (with one HoA), = by enabling differentiation of flows based on different filtering criteria. NOMADv6 lets the filters define how the different bindings are used to = route flows, thereby letting a binding (that is identified as HoA-CoA pair = with filters) to expire when no refreshing. That means, for Ryuji's example, = the flows that were on the i/f 1 will be redirected to new CoA of i/f 1, = after the handoff. =20 Regards Koojana >=20 > regards, > ryuji >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Mip6 mailing list > Mip6@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 4 05:57:19 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA08475 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 05:57:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGyru-0002xQ-MG for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 05:57:02 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA4Av20f011362 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 05:57:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGyru-0002xB-Gn for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 05:57:02 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA08470 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 05:56:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGyrq-00033z-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 05:56:58 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGyrq-00033w-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 05:56:58 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGyrt-0002wj-8O; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 05:57:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGyrQ-0002wD-RG for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 05:56:32 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA08467 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 05:56:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGyrN-00033r-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 05:56:29 -0500 Received: from mail.flarion.com ([63.103.94.23] helo=ftmail.lab.flarion.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGyrM-00033m-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 05:56:28 -0500 Received: by ftmail.lab.flarion.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) id ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 05:55:56 -0500 Message-ID: <748C6D0A58C0F94CA63C198B6674697A01922E78@ftmail.lab.flarion.com> From: Soliman Hesham To: "'Pekka Savola'" Cc: Thomas Noel , mip6@ietf.org Subject: RE: multi-interfaced vs multi-addressed [Re: [Mip6] Draft Agenda for WG meeting at IETF58] Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 05:55:05 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , > > MIPv6 needs > > to allow for more than one coa to be associated with a single > > hoa. > > Correct as well.. (but see more below) > > But you seem to be neglecting the case where a single interface, but > multi-addressed host would act as a Mobile Node. It needs MIPv6 > mechanisms as well. Just using multi6/ipv6 for recognizing > attributes of > a prefix is not enough! => Of course, I didn't intend to neglect it, I meant that it requires more work than just MIPv6. But MIPv6 needs to support multiple CoAs per HoA anyway. > Exactly -- which is why solving the generic problem in MIPv6 > (the coa-hoa > bindings) is probably necessary. I'm not sure if we've spelled out > whether it's absolutely necessary -- e.g., could it be > possible to use > different HoA's for different CoA's? => That's possible, but: 1. Not all MNs will have more than one HoA. 2. Even if they do, this does not help because the CN might pick any of those addresses to communicate with. E.g. - CN first picks the MN's HoA_1. - MN binds HoA_1 --> CoA_1 - CN then picks HoA_1 again for another connection. Now the MN wants to bind HoA_1 --> CoA_2 for that connection (?). > But I fail to see anything relating to interfaces in the > actual problem > statement -- which was the point. => Perhaps the authors of draft-montavont-pb can take this comment into account. > > -- > Pekka Savola "You each name yourselves king, yet the > Netcore Oy kingdom bleeds." > Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings > > _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 4 06:50:20 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA10233 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 06:50:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGzhE-0006nC-99 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 06:50:04 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA4Bo3Z0026041 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 06:50:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGzhD-0006lw-7t for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 06:50:03 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA10223 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 06:49:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGzh9-0003sg-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 06:49:59 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGzh8-0003sd-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 06:49:58 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGzhB-0006lS-V7; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 06:50:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGzgn-0006kz-KP for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 06:49:37 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA10215 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 06:49:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGzgj-0003sP-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 06:49:33 -0500 Received: from nwkea-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.42.14]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGzgi-0003s5-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 06:49:32 -0500 Received: from bebop.France.Sun.COM ([129.157.174.15]) by nwkea-mail-2.sun.com (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA4BmmxA017247; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 03:48:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from lillen (lillen [129.157.212.23]) by bebop.France.Sun.COM (8.11.7+Sun/8.10.2/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with SMTP id hA4BmmS03343; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 12:48:48 +0100 (MET) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 12:48:16 +0100 (CET) From: Erik Nordmark Reply-To: Erik Nordmark Subject: RE: multi-interfaced vs multi-addressed [Re: [Mip6] Draft Agenda for WG meeting at IETF58] To: Soliman Hesham Cc: "'Pekka Savola'" , Thomas Noel , mip6@ietf.org In-Reply-To: "Your message with ID" <748C6D0A58C0F94CA63C198B6674697A01922E73@ftmail.lab.flarion.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , > Multi6/ipv6 only need to be involved to solve the problem > of associating certain attributes to a prefix. MIPv6 needs > to allow for more than one coa to be associated with a single > hoa. Implementers need to put the pieces together and do > their own interface/coa selection algorithms. I'm trying to understand different ways to factor this problem set. One aspect is that between a single home agent and a single home address one can envision multiple tunnels to different CoAs, and then effectively do multipath routing across those. In addition to the establishment of such tunnels one also need to have a mechanism to determine the liveness of the alternative paths/tunnels. (Perhaps that is what you mean by interface/coa selection algorithms.) Moving this to a correspondent is effectively just a way to propagate the tunnel endpoints to a different place in the topology. There is also the more traditional multihoming aspect of having multiple HoAs assigned to the same node, which can provide additional resiliency and perhaps load spreading when a mobile node has two relatively far apart home agents. Presumably this is not mobility specific; a stationary node at a homehomed household might want to benefit from this as well. Somewhat separately, there is the desire to do packet classification at the sender so that different types of traffic can use different paths (in the general case) or "tunnels" in the mobile-ip case. Is this something that would only apply to the one HoA/multiple CoA case? Well, no. If there was such a capability why not be able to use it when there are multiple HoAs as well? And be able to use if for multi-addressed nodes that are not using Mobile IP. One could also envision using such a classification mechanism as a way for a node (mobile or not) at the end of a slow link to inform its access router (at the other end of the slow link) which flows to prioritize across that slow link. Erik _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 4 06:56:19 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA10532 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 06:56:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGzn1-0007Jx-8R for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 06:56:03 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA4Bu3X9028135 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 06:56:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGzn1-0007Ji-2j for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 06:56:03 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA10498 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 06:55:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGzmw-0003ym-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 06:55:58 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGzmw-0003yj-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 06:55:58 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGzn0-0007I3-2g; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 06:56:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AGzme-0007HT-8w for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 06:55:40 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA10487 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 06:55:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGzmZ-0003yI-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 06:55:35 -0500 Received: from netcore.fi ([193.94.160.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AGzmZ-0003xi-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 06:55:35 -0500 Received: from localhost (pekkas@localhost) by netcore.fi (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id hA4Bt1v24201; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 13:55:01 +0200 Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 13:55:00 +0200 (EET) From: Pekka Savola To: Soliman Hesham cc: Thomas Noel , Subject: RE: multi-interfaced vs multi-addressed [Re: [Mip6] Draft Agenda for WG meeting at IETF58] In-Reply-To: <748C6D0A58C0F94CA63C198B6674697A01922E78@ftmail.lab.flarion.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Soliman Hesham wrote: [multi-addressed, single-interface scenario] > I meant that it requires more work than just MIPv6. But MIPv6 needs to > support multiple CoAs per HoA anyway. No, I disagree here. You're implying that MN with two interfaces would not need more work. This does not seem to be correct: clearly, the user (or someone) must specify the attributes/preferences for the prefixes/interfaces being used. The same with just one interface but multiple addresses. Perhaps you're assuming that the implementation (or the user) could just have default values like, "WLAN interface is preferred over GPRS", based on some characteristics and knowledge, and try to avoid having to have more fine-grained control for example on the ISPs being used (one could offer QoS service, other might not)? My point is that I don't believe it is really possible to have these kinds of coarse preferences without user interaction -- so the situation should be pretty close to having to pick between service from ISP X and ISP Y. (These will probably be even more natural if you put this kind of solution in a network where the network access control is already being done -- the user would need to authenticate somehow to get service anyway, which would yield the information about ISP<->prefix relationships..) > > Exactly -- which is why solving the generic problem in MIPv6 > > (the coa-hoa > > bindings) is probably necessary. I'm not sure if we've spelled out > > whether it's absolutely necessary -- e.g., could it be > > possible to use > > different HoA's for different CoA's? > > => That's possible, but: > 1. Not all MNs will have more than one HoA. We might be able to mandate it (not sure if that's feasible, but that might be an option). > 2. Even if they do, this does not help because the > CN might pick any of those addresses to communicate > with. E.g. > - CN first picks the MN's HoA_1. > - MN binds HoA_1 --> CoA_1 > - CN then picks HoA_1 again for another connection. > Now the MN wants to bind HoA_1 --> CoA_2 for that > connection (?). I take it you mean the problems occur because we can't signal to CN which HoA it should be using, and we couldn't control which path ("cheap/expensive") between the HoA and the CoA is chosen? There might be ways to work around this problem, but it might be that multiple CoA's per HaO would be needed. -- Pekka Savola "You each name yourselves king, yet the Netcore Oy kingdom bleeds." Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 4 07:15:23 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA11225 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 07:15:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH05P-0008Qv-S0 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 07:15:03 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA4CF3Hc032413 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 07:15:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH05P-0008Qi-Lr for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 07:15:03 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA11209 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 07:14:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH05P-0004GJ-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 07:15:03 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH05O-0004GF-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 07:15:02 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH05O-0008QF-4i; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 07:15:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH04d-0008P2-4k for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 07:14:15 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA11188 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 07:14:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH04c-0004FQ-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 07:14:14 -0500 Received: from mail.flarion.com ([63.103.94.23] helo=ftmail.lab.flarion.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH04c-0004F5-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 07:14:14 -0500 Received: by ftmail.lab.flarion.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) id ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 07:13:38 -0500 Message-ID: <748C6D0A58C0F94CA63C198B6674697A01922E7A@ftmail.lab.flarion.com> From: Soliman Hesham To: "'Pekka Savola'" Cc: Thomas Noel , mip6@ietf.org Subject: RE: multi-interfaced vs multi-addressed [Re: [Mip6] Draft Agenda for WG meeting at IETF58] Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 07:13:31 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , > On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Soliman Hesham wrote: > [multi-addressed, single-interface scenario] > > I meant that it requires more work than just MIPv6. But > MIPv6 needs to > > support multiple CoAs per HoA anyway. > > No, I disagree here. You're implying that MN with two > interfaces would > not need more work. This does not seem to be correct: > clearly, the user > (or someone) must specify the attributes/preferences for the > prefixes/interfaces being used. The same with just one interface but > multiple addresses. > > Perhaps you're assuming that the implementation (or the > user) could just > have default values like, "WLAN interface is preferred over > GPRS", based > on some characteristics and knowledge, and try to avoid > having to have > more fine-grained control for example on the ISPs being used > (one could > offer QoS service, other might not)? => I was trying to narrow the scope to what needs to be done on a protocol level. Actually, I've written a few pages on this for another publications and one can easily write 100 pages. So if you want a "system" approach to this problem you need the following: 1. A number of inputs to an interface selection algorithm. These inputs should be weighted. They can include: user pref, cost, link characteristics, application preference ....etc 2. An interface selection algorithm (which translates into a CoA selection) 3. A signalling mechanism to ensure that communication with that CoA is possible (i.e. this is the MIP part). > My point is that I don't believe it is really possible to > have these kinds > of coarse preferences without user interaction -- => Why not? User interaction is only one of the inputs. How much interaction does a user have today when it comes to their VPN setup? None typically! Your IPsec tunnel could include all your traffic (to go through the company FW) or could filter based on the IP address. Corporate users typically have no choice here. It'd be nice if they do, but it's not required. so the > situation should > be pretty close to having to pick between service from ISP X > and ISP Y. => Not really, those are "admin" issues and could be factored into the algorithm I mentioned above. The different links could belong to the same ISP, in which case the admin part is not an issue. > > => That's possible, but: > > 1. Not all MNs will have more than one HoA. > > We might be able to mandate it (not sure if that's feasible, but that > might be an option). => I don't think it's a realistic one. We can't mandate operational issues. > > 2. Even if they do, this does not help because the > > CN might pick any of those addresses to communicate > > with. E.g. > > - CN first picks the MN's HoA_1. > > - MN binds HoA_1 --> CoA_1 > > - CN then picks HoA_1 again for another connection. > > Now the MN wants to bind HoA_1 --> CoA_2 for that > > connection (?). > > I take it you mean the problems occur because we can't > signal to CN which > HoA it should be using, and we couldn't control which path > ("cheap/expensive") between the HoA and the CoA is chosen? => Or: we can't signal that it should accept multiple CoA. > There might be ways to work around this problem, but it > might be that > multiple CoA's per HaO would be needed. => There are also other benefits for this when it comes to handover optimisations. But I won't go through that yet. Hesham > > -- > Pekka Savola "You each name yourselves king, yet the > Netcore Oy kingdom bleeds." > Systems. Networks. Security. -- George R.R. Martin: A Clash of Kings > > _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 4 07:27:20 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA11676 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 07:27:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH0Gz-00011j-8x for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 07:27:01 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA4CR14l003941 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 07:27:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH0Gy-00011U-Vr for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 07:27:01 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA11662 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 07:26:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH0Gy-0004TY-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 07:27:00 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH0Gy-0004TV-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 07:27:00 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH0Gy-000112-3V; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 07:27:00 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH0GT-00010e-2M for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 07:26:29 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA11648 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 07:26:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH0GS-0004TE-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 07:26:28 -0500 Received: from mail.flarion.com ([63.103.94.23] helo=ftmail.lab.flarion.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH0GS-0004T2-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 07:26:28 -0500 Received: by ftmail.lab.flarion.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) id ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 07:25:56 -0500 Message-ID: <748C6D0A58C0F94CA63C198B6674697A01922E7B@ftmail.lab.flarion.com> From: Soliman Hesham To: "'Erik Nordmark'" Cc: "'Pekka Savola'" , Thomas Noel , mip6@ietf.org Subject: RE: multi-interfaced vs multi-addressed [Re: [Mip6] Draft Agenda for WG meeting at IETF58] Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 07:25:30 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , > > Multi6/ipv6 only need to be involved to solve the problem > > of associating certain attributes to a prefix. MIPv6 needs > > to allow for more than one coa to be associated with a single > > hoa. Implementers need to put the pieces together and do > > their own interface/coa selection algorithms. > > I'm trying to understand different ways to factor this problem set. > > One aspect is that between a single home agent and a single > home address > one can envision multiple tunnels to different CoAs, and > then effectively > do multipath routing across those. In addition to the > establishment of > such tunnels one also need to have a mechanism to determine > the liveness > of the alternative paths/tunnels. (Perhaps that is what you mean by > interface/coa selection algorithms.) => Actually, by the interface selection I meant that the MN would select the appropriate interface (i.e. CoA) depending on several factors (link charateristics, QoS, delays, app, cost...etc). I'm not sure if having multiple tunnels requires a liveness determination mechanism. I.e. if it's not done for a single tunnel today (apart from the lifetime field in the binding which can be used for other bindings), why is it needed when more tunnels are introduced? I'm assuming that we do not want to split a single connection across multiple paths of course ;) > > Moving this to a correspondent is effectively just a way to > propagate the > tunnel endpoints to a different place in the topology. => Agreed. > > There is also the more traditional multihoming aspect of > having multiple HoAs > assigned to the same node, which can provide additional > resiliency and > perhaps load spreading when a mobile node has two relatively > far apart > home agents. Presumably this is not mobility specific; a > stationary node at > a homehomed household might want to benefit from this as well. => Agreed that this is not mobility specific. > > Somewhat separately, there is the desire to do packet classification > at the sender so that different types of traffic can use different > paths (in the general case) or "tunnels" in the mobile-ip case. > Is this something that would only apply to the one > HoA/multiple CoA case? => Not really. I think it's a general problem for multihomed host. But for non-mobile nodes I think this can be done without introducing new bits on the wire. For instance, multi-addressed/multihomed nodes are free to select their source address on a per-connection basis. The same goes for mobile nodes that either have more than one home address, or want to split traffic going to different CNs. I.e. use a different binding with different CNs, for the same HoA. I think things get more difficult when different bindings are needed for the same end point (be it HA or CN). > > Well, no. If there was such a capability why not be able to > use it when there > are multiple HoAs as well? And be able to use if for > multi-addressed nodes > that are not using Mobile IP. => Agreed. But what is needed for stationary nodes (I mean protocol-wise)? > One could also envision using such a classification > mechanism as a way for > a node (mobile or not) at the end of a slow link to inform its access > router (at the other end of the slow link) which flows to prioritize > across that slow link. => Hmm, I agree with the need for this, but this seems more like a QoS signalling function over the first hop, as opposed to a "routing" function done on a per-connection basis. Hesham _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 4 07:33:22 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA11886 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 07:33:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH0Mo-0001Ws-CR for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 07:33:02 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA4CX2mf005872 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 07:33:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH0Mo-0001Wd-7p for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 07:33:02 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA11864 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 07:32:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH0Mn-0004ah-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 07:33:01 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH0Mn-0004ae-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 07:33:01 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH0Mn-0001VA-3t; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 07:33:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH0ML-0001Ui-SR for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 07:32:33 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA11856 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 07:32:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH0ML-0004aM-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 07:32:33 -0500 Received: from nwkea-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.42.13]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH0MK-0004Zz-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 07:32:32 -0500 Received: from bebop.France.Sun.COM ([129.157.174.15]) by nwkea-mail-1.sun.com (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA4CVqUP022843; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 04:31:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from lillen (lillen [129.157.212.23]) by bebop.France.Sun.COM (8.11.7+Sun/8.10.2/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with SMTP id hA4CVpS08566; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 13:31:51 +0100 (MET) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 13:31:18 +0100 (CET) From: Erik Nordmark Reply-To: Erik Nordmark Subject: RE: multi-interfaced vs multi-addressed [Re: [Mip6] Draft Agenda for WG meeting at IETF58] To: Soliman Hesham Cc: "'Erik Nordmark'" , "'Pekka Savola'" , Thomas Noel , mip6@ietf.org In-Reply-To: "Your message with ID" <748C6D0A58C0F94CA63C198B6674697A01922E7B@ftmail.lab.flarion.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , > I'm not sure if having multiple tunnels requires a liveness > determination mechanism. I.e. if it's not done for a single > tunnel today (apart from the lifetime field in the binding > which can be used for other bindings), why is it needed > when more tunnels are introduced? Because one reason for multiple tunnels is higher availability. For instance, so that when your tunnel over the WLAN stops working due to being out of reach, the traffic will switch over to the tunnel over the GPRS. > I'm assuming that we do not want to split a single connection > across multiple paths of course ;) No, but you want to be able to perform failovers I think. > => Not really. I think it's a general problem for multihomed > host. But for non-mobile nodes I think this can be done without > introducing new bits on the wire. For instance, multi-addressed/multihomed > nodes are free to select their source address on a per-connection > basis. The same goes for mobile nodes that either have more > than one home address, or want to split traffic going to > different CNs. I.e. use a different binding with different > CNs, for the same HoA. I think things get more difficult > when different bindings are needed for the same end point > (be it HA or CN). For outgoing traffic the host can select the source address. But that isn't true for inbound traffic to lillen.france.sun.com; all the initiator has is one or more IP addresses returned by the DNS. Erik _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 4 07:36:22 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA11970 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 07:36:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH0Pj-0001eA-El for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 07:36:03 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA4Ca32J006279 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 07:36:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH0Pj-0001dC-5E for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 07:36:03 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA11956 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 07:35:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH0Pi-0004cs-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 07:36:02 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH0Pi-0004cp-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 07:36:02 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH0Pi-0001cb-8V; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 07:36:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH0Ow-0001Zz-9F for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 07:35:14 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA11927 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 07:35:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH0Ov-0004cH-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 07:35:13 -0500 Received: from mail.flarion.com ([63.103.94.23] helo=ftmail.lab.flarion.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH0Ov-0004c9-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 07:35:13 -0500 Received: by ftmail.lab.flarion.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) id ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 07:34:42 -0500 Message-ID: <748C6D0A58C0F94CA63C198B6674697A01922E7C@ftmail.lab.flarion.com> From: Soliman Hesham To: "'Erik Nordmark'" Cc: "'Pekka Savola'" , Thomas Noel , mip6@ietf.org Subject: RE: multi-interfaced vs multi-addressed [Re: [Mip6] Draft Agenda for WG meeting at IETF58] Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 07:34:17 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , > > I'm not sure if having multiple tunnels requires a liveness > > determination mechanism. I.e. if it's not done for a single > > tunnel today (apart from the lifetime field in the binding > > which can be used for other bindings), why is it needed > > when more tunnels are introduced? > > Because one reason for multiple tunnels is higher availability. > For instance, so that when your tunnel over the WLAN stops working > due to being out of reach, the traffic will switch over to the tunnel > over the GPRS. > => Good point. I never thought of it as a way of increasing availability. We should consider this case. > > => Not really. I think it's a general problem for multihomed > > host. But for non-mobile nodes I think this can be done without > > introducing new bits on the wire. For instance, > multi-addressed/multihomed > > nodes are free to select their source address on a per-connection > > basis. The same goes for mobile nodes that either have more > > than one home address, or want to split traffic going to > > different CNs. I.e. use a different binding with different > > CNs, for the same HoA. I think things get more difficult > > when different bindings are needed for the same end point > > (be it HA or CN). > > For outgoing traffic the host can select the source address. > But that isn't true for inbound traffic to lillen.france.sun.com; > all the initiator has is one or more IP addresses returned > by the DNS. => Agreed. Hesham _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 4 08:02:22 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA13055 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 08:02:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH0ot-0003eV-BV for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 08:02:03 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA4D23YS014039 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 08:02:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH0ot-0003eM-6q for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 08:02:03 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA13037 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 08:01:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH0os-000532-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 08:02:02 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH0or-00052x-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 08:02:01 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH0os-0003du-49; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 08:02:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH0oT-0003da-Nt for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 08:01:37 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA13030 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 08:01:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH0oS-00052j-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 08:01:36 -0500 Received: from shonan.sfc.wide.ad.jp ([203.178.142.130]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH0oS-00052A-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 08:01:36 -0500 Received: from galibier.nautilus6.org (unknown [203.178.138.3]) by shonan.sfc.wide.ad.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 791CD5D169; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 22:01:04 +0900 (JST) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 21:55:33 +0900 From: Thierry Ernst To: Pekka Savola Cc: H.Soliman@flarion.com, mip6@ietf.org Subject: Re: multi-interfaced vs multi-addressed [Re: [Mip6] Draft Agenda for WG meeting at IETF58] Message-Id: <20031104215533.0aecd6b7.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> In-Reply-To: References: <748C6D0A58C0F94CA63C198B6674697A01922E6D@ftmail.lab.flarion.com> Organization: Keio University X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.8.11 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i686-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > On Mon, 3 Nov 2003, Soliman Hesham wrote: > > Case 1: The MN has two different addresses on the same interface.=20 > > In this case, the characteristics of that i/f is unchanged whether > > you use address 1 or address 2. The address itself is irrelevant,=20 > > it's the interface it represents that matters. So if both addresses > > represent the same interface, then either one will do.=20 > > > > Case 2: Two addresses on two different interfaces. > > Now, the MN may want to put some connections on i/f 1 > > and others on i/f 2, why? because i/f 1 is cheap and free > > but doesn't provide QoS for instance so it's ok to put my=20 > > web browsing on that. On the other hand i/f 2 provides QoS > > (for a price) so I'll only use it for real time apps. >=20 > Right, but the addresses assigned on the interface might have different > properties even if assigned on a single interface, e.g. "expensive" and > "cheap" ISP. >=20 > I certainly agree that the multi-interface scenarios are typically more=20 > motivating, but what I'm look=EDng for is a technical explanation *why*=20 > these issues are different with multiple interfaces.. because in many=20 > cases, you just don't need to care -- if you can support multiple=20 > addresses, you get multiple interfaces free! >=20 > (And, looking at the problem statement, it seems that case 1 would requir= e=20 > some modifications on its own if you want to distinguish the use use of=20 > addresses somehow..) Pekka, just to be sure about what you mean about "problem statement" so that we are not confused: do you speak about the problem statement as stated in a specific draft (i.e. draft-montavont-mobileip-multihoming-pb-statement-00.txt) ? Thierry. =20 > That is, I'd like to get people out of this "multiple interfaces are > special" mindset unless it's really warranted -- just consider them > addresses of different properties! >=20 _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 4 08:41:26 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA14250 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 08:41:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH1Qe-00069w-Ay for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 08:41:04 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA4Df4sB023675 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 08:41:04 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH1Qd-00068v-Vl for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 08:41:04 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA14208 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 08:40:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH1Qc-0005bQ-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 08:41:02 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH1Qc-0005bN-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 08:41:02 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH1Qc-000687-6w; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 08:41:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH1Pu-00067O-RR for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 08:40:18 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA14187 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 08:40:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH1Pt-0005av-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 08:40:17 -0500 Received: from sam.comnets.uni-bremen.de ([134.102.186.10] helo=bugs.comnets.uni-bremen.de) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH1Ps-0005as-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 08:40:16 -0500 Received: from scoobydoo (scoobydoo.comnets.uni-bremen.de [134.102.155.152]) by bugs.comnets.uni-bremen.de (8.11.0/8.11.0/SuSE Linux 8.11.0-0.4) with ESMTP id hA4DeCQ14364; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 14:40:12 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: bugs.comnets.uni-bremen.de: Host scoobydoo.comnets.uni-bremen.de [134.102.155.152] claimed to be scoobydoo From: "Koojana Kuladinithi" To: "'Thierry Ernst'" , Subject: AW: [Mip6] Multihomed Mobile Nodes Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 14:40:11 +0100 Message-ID: <003101c3a2d9$2b81b6b0$989b6686@scoobydoo> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-Reply-To: <20031104165033.7fcf856b.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Thierry & all, Pl, find following comments on the draft-montavont-mobileip-multihoming-pb-statement-00.txt, For case, (1,n,n) or (n,n,n), there can be two cases,=20 1. As you defined in section 4.3 or 2. None of interfaces are at home network Can you describe a case 2 as well(May be as a separate section)?=20 Is there anyway to indicate case 2 according to your classification? I guess (0,n,n) won't make sense since it indicates that there is no = home address allocated ? Kind regards Koojana > -----Urspr=FCngliche Nachricht----- > Von: mip6-admin@ietf.org [mailto:mip6-admin@ietf.org] Im Auftrag von > Thierry Ernst > Gesendet: Dienstag, 4. November 2003 08:51 > An: mip6@ietf.org > Betreff: Re: [Mip6] Multihomed Mobile Nodes >=20 >=20 > Dear all, >=20 > Just being curious, who has read the Multihoming Problem Statement = draft ? > = http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-montavont-mobileip-multihoming-= > pb-statement-00.txt >=20 > Comments as directed below or of any other kind are welcome. >=20 > Thierry. >=20 >=20 > Thierry Ernst wrote: > > Dear all, > > > > As you know there have been a number of drafts dealing around the = issues > > of multihomed mobile nodes, including > > draft-montavont-mobileip-multihoming-pb-statement-00.txt > > > > > > The intend of the draft is to list the cases where a MN is = multihomed, > > and the issues that must be addressed at large to allow this > > configuration. So, the real intend is to investigate what are the = issues > > peculiar to MIPv6, and other issues not peculiar to MIPv6. I guess = that > > there is no other group in a better position than MIPv6 to = understand > > the issues peculiar to MIP6. May be the solutions can be divised in > > other WGs, but a prior work for this is for the MIP6 group to give > > comments. > > > > In order to introduce the discussion, may I ask the following = questions > > to the list (including authors of the other drafts): > > > > - if people agree with the definition of multihoming ? > > - is there any case (the one you the most concerned about) which is = not > > covered by the definition ? > > - if people agree with the issues ? > > - what are the missing issues we need to consider ? > > - where should the issues be solved ? > > > > > > Get the draft here: http://clarinet.u-strasbg.fr/~montavont/ > > > > Abstract: > > ~~~~~~~~~ > > Individual solutions have been proposed to extend Mobile IPv6 in > > order to allow mobile nodes to be multihomed, but all issues have = not > > been addressed by a single document. In this document, we thus = propose a > > taxonomy to classify the situations where a mobile node may be > > multihomed. This taxonomy is then used to describe all multihomed > > scenarios. Issues preventing mobile nodes to be multihomed while > > operating Mobile IPv6 are highlighted. This document doesn't aim at > > proposing solutions, however, it is expected to raise discussion in > > order to make sure forthcoming solutions will address all the = issues. > > > > >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Mip6 mailing list > Mip6@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 4 08:43:20 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA14361 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 08:43:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH1SX-0006Z8-Kr for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 08:43:02 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA4Dh1Sb025232 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 08:43:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH1SX-0006Yt-EO for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 08:43:01 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA14340 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 08:42:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH1SW-0005do-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 08:43:00 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH1SV-0005dl-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 08:42:59 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH1SW-0006XQ-IX; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 08:43:00 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH1SK-0006Ru-IX for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 08:42:48 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA14337 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 08:42:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH1SH-0005dh-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 08:42:45 -0500 Received: from clarinet.u-strasbg.fr ([130.79.90.157]) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH1SH-0005de-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 08:42:45 -0500 Received: (qmail 3136 invoked for bounce); 4 Nov 2003 13:42:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO clarinet.u-strasbg.fr) (montavont@unknown) by unknown with RC4-MD5 encrypted SMTP; 4 Nov 2003 13:42:53 -0000 Message-ID: <3FA7ACA8.60406@clarinet.u-strasbg.fr> Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 14:42:00 +0100 From: Nicolas Montavont User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030727 Thunderbird/0.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Soliman Hesham CC: "'Pekka Savola'" , Thomas Noel , mip6@ietf.org Subject: Re: multi-interfaced vs multi-addressed [Re: [Mip6] Draft Agenda for WG meeting at IETF58] References: <748C6D0A58C0F94CA63C198B6674697A01922E7A@ftmail.lab.flarion.com> In-Reply-To: <748C6D0A58C0F94CA63C198B6674697A01922E7A@ftmail.lab.flarion.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Soliman Hesham wrote: > > On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Soliman Hesham wrote: > > [multi-addressed, single-interface scenario] > > > I meant that it requires more work than just MIPv6. But > > MIPv6 needs to > > > support multiple CoAs per HoA anyway. > > > > No, I disagree here. You're implying that MN with two > > interfaces would > > not need more work. This does not seem to be correct: > > clearly, the user > > (or someone) must specify the attributes/preferences for the > > prefixes/interfaces being used. The same with just one interface but > > multiple addresses. > > > > Perhaps you're assuming that the implementation (or the > > user) could just > > have default values like, "WLAN interface is preferred over > > GPRS", based > > on some characteristics and knowledge, and try to avoid > > having to have > > more fine-grained control for example on the ISPs being used > > (one could > > offer QoS service, other might not)? > >=> I was trying to narrow the scope to what needs to be done >on a protocol level. Actually, I've written a few pages on this for another >publications and one can easily write 100 pages. So if you >want a "system" approach to this problem you need the following: > >1. A number of inputs to an interface selection algorithm. >These inputs should be weighted. They can include: user pref, >cost, link characteristics, application preference ....etc > >2. An interface selection algorithm (which translates into >a CoA selection) > >3. A signalling mechanism to ensure that communication with >that CoA is possible (i.e. this is the MIP part). > I totally agree with this scheme and that is on what we work in our lab. But I think that the task of IETF is only point 3. The way the selection between interfaces/CoAs is independant from the signalling for spreading the flows on interfaces/addresses. In draft-montavont-mip6-mmi-01 (http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-montavont-mip6-mmi-01.txt) we tried to describe different granularities of flows spreading and proposed some mechanisms useful for multihomed MNs. This document includes: - how to rediect flows between interfaces: especially, what happens if the MN has a single or a multiple HoAs - how to perform a per-CN mobility - per-flow mobility - load balancing operations We would be very pleased to have some feedback on this document too. Nicolas _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 4 09:05:23 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA15174 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 09:05:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH1ns-0007lY-KY for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 09:05:04 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA4E54fW029848 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 09:05:04 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH1nr-0007kK-2z for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 09:05:03 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA15137 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 09:04:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH1np-00061V-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 09:05:01 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH1np-00061S-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 09:05:01 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH1np-0007jp-Mh; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 09:05:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH1ng-0007jO-GY for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 09:04:52 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA15131 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 09:04:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH1ne-00061K-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 09:04:51 -0500 Received: from clarinet.u-strasbg.fr ([130.79.90.157]) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH1ne-00061H-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 09:04:50 -0500 Received: (qmail 3372 invoked for bounce); 4 Nov 2003 14:04:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO clarinet.u-strasbg.fr) (montavont@unknown) by unknown with RC4-MD5 encrypted SMTP; 4 Nov 2003 14:04:59 -0000 Message-ID: <3FA7B1D5.3000207@clarinet.u-strasbg.fr> Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 15:04:05 +0100 From: Nicolas Montavont User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030727 Thunderbird/0.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Pekka Savola CC: Soliman Hesham , Thomas Noel , mip6@ietf.org Subject: Re: multi-interfaced vs multi-addressed [Re: [Mip6] Draft Agenda for WG meeting at IETF58] References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Pekka Savola wrote: >On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Soliman Hesham wrote: > > >>Multi6/ipv6 only need to be involved to solve the problem >>of associating certain attributes to a prefix. >> >> > >Sure.. that might be useful work, but that does not eliminate the problem >for a MN w/ 1 interface but 2 addresses. > > > >>MIPv6 needs >>to allow for more than one coa to be associated with a single >>hoa. >> >> > >Correct as well.. (but see more below) > >But you seem to be neglecting the case where a single interface, but >multi-addressed host would act as a Mobile Node. It needs MIPv6 >mechanisms as well. Just using multi6/ipv6 for recognizing attributes of >a prefix is not enough! > > > >> > That might certainly make sense, as there is very little >> > MIPv6-specific >> > with multiple interfaces which is not present with multiple >> > addresses w/ >> > one interface. >> >>=> Yes, but both cases require MIPv6 to handle more than one >>coa for a single hoa binding. >> >> > >Exactly -- which is why solving the generic problem in MIPv6 (the coa-hoa >bindings) is probably necessary. I'm not sure if we've spelled out >whether it's absolutely necessary -- e.g., could it be possible to use >different HoA's for different CoA's? > >But I fail to see anything relating to interfaces in the actual problem >statement -- which was the point. > > > Thanks for the remark. In draft-montavont-pb, we tried to expose the problem statement of multihomed mobile nodes. The definition we proposed (that is not fixed of course) says that a node is multihomed when it is multi-addressed. In the taxonomy we proposed, we use three parameters: number of home addresses, number of care-of addresses and number of active interfaces. In this taxonomy, we consider the number of interfaces because it seemed to us useful to define the scenario (section 4.2). Otherwise, from the point of view of the benefits, it is very interesting to consider how many interfaces are available (eg. to reach permanent connectivity). I don't say that any solution we could write will be different when the MN has a single interface and multiple addresses than when the MN has multiple interfaces, but at this point, I think it is important to keep the number of interfaces as a parameter of the taxonomy. Nicolas _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 4 11:27:21 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA21339 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:27:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH41G-0007Hn-TR for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 11:27:03 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA4GR2SR028001 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:27:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH41G-0007HY-PF for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 11:27:02 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA21332 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:26:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH41F-0000Dz-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 11:27:01 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH41F-0000Dw-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 11:27:01 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH41F-0007H6-EB; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 11:27:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH40d-0007Gk-1q for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 11:26:23 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA21306 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:26:10 -0500 (EST) From: Basavaraj.Patil@nokia.com Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH40c-0000DX-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 11:26:22 -0500 Received: from mgw-x4.nokia.com ([131.228.20.27]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH40b-0000DU-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 11:26:21 -0500 Received: from esvir04nok.ntc.nokia.com (esvir04nokt.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.143.36]) by mgw-x4.nokia.com (Switch-2.2.8/Switch-2.2.8) with ESMTP id hA4GQKF23423 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 18:26:20 +0200 (EET) Received: from daebh001.NOE.Nokia.com (unverified) by esvir04nok.ntc.nokia.com (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.2.5) with ESMTP id for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 18:26:20 +0200 Received: from daebe007.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.18.242.211]) by daebh001.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6747); Tue, 4 Nov 2003 08:26:12 -0800 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 10:26:12 -0600 Message-ID: <697DAA22C5004B4596E033803A7CEF44024DBA0A@daebe007.americas.nokia.com> Thread-Topic: Agenda for MIP6 at IETF58 Thread-Index: AcOi8FrswVjM16pPRvGfgu9EKqcE3w== To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Nov 2003 16:26:12.0169 (UTC) FILETIME=[5C58F390:01C3A2F0] Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [Mip6] Agenda for MIP6 at IETF58 Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIP6 (Mobility for IPv6 WG) Draft Agenda (version 2) --------------------------------------------------- MONDAY, November 10, 2003=20 1530-1730 Afternoon Sessions II CHAIRS: Basavaraj Patil Gopal Dommety Agenda: 1. Preliminaries 10 Mins Chairs - Minutes - Agenda bashing Document status: Mobile IPv6 base specifications are in the RFC editors queue. IANA is currently in the process of allocating type numbers, error codes etc. to the I-D. 2. MIPv6 MIB 15 Mins Glenn Keeni I-D: draft-ietf-mip6-mipv6-mib-00.txt The intent of this agenda item is to update the WG on ths current status of the MIB work and to seek input from WG community. 3. MIPv6 Remote interop testing 15 Mins T.J Kniveton/Samita C. I-D: draft-kniveton-mipv6-remote-testing-00.txt Interop testing of the Mobile IPv6 protocol will ensure that the specs are unambiguous. It will also enable the discovery of problems/issues which will then form the basis for revising various features that are present in the base spec. This I-D proposes the creation of a MIPv6 testbed that allows interop testing remotely. 4. Inter Home Agents Protocol (HAHA) 10 Mins Ryuji Wakikawa I-D: draft-wakikawa-mip6-nemo-haha-00.txt Home agent reliability is a part of the MIP6 charter. This I-D explores a possible solution. The intent is to seek WG support for this item. 5. Extension to Sockets API for Mobile IPv6 15 Mins S. Chakrabarti I-D: draft-chakrabarti-mobileip-mipext-advapi-01.txt This is a combined effort by the MIP6 and IPv6 WGs. The specification will be worked in in the MIP6 WG. This agenda slot is intended to present an update on the Sockets API for MIPv6. 6. Route Optimization hint option 10 Mins K. Shima I-D: draft-shima-mip6-rohints-00.txt While RO is a part of the base specification, there are no real guidelines when RO should be triggered. This agenda slot will discuss the problem and provide some hints on when RO is optimal. 7. Multi-interfaced/Multi-homed MNs - Problem statement discussion =20 10 Mins T. Ernst I-D: draft-montavont-mobileip-multihoming-pb-statement-00.txt This agenda slot is intended to discuss the problem statement stated in the I-D and to solicit WG input regarding how important this work is and if MIP6 WG should deal with it. 8. Roadmap for WG 10 Mins Chairs and ADs This agenda item will discuss next steps for the WG especially in terms of what happens between now and IETF59. _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 4 11:53:22 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA22363 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:53:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH4QQ-0000js-HM for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 11:53:04 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA4Gr2IX002839 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:53:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH4QQ-0000ji-Cx for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 11:53:02 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA22340 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:52:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH4QP-0000bc-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 11:53:01 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH4QO-0000bW-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 11:53:00 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH4QO-0000i1-V2; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 11:53:00 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH4QH-0000he-Ll for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 11:52:54 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA22329 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:52:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH4QG-0000bL-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 11:52:52 -0500 Received: from smtp804.mail.ukl.yahoo.com ([217.12.12.141]) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH4QF-0000b2-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 11:52:51 -0500 Received: from adsl-64-170-248-130.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net (HELO eremmell) (elmic@sbcglobal.net@64.170.248.130 with login) by smtp1.bt.mail.vip.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Nov 2003 16:52:11 -0000 From: "Ed Remmell" To: "=?iso-8859-1?B?J0pJTk1FSSBUYXR1eWEgLyCQXy2+J0KNxic=?=" , "'Vijay Devarapalli'" Cc: , Subject: RE: [Mip6] Re: A list of issues for RFC2462 update Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 08:52:10 -0800 Message-ID: <001a01c3a2f3$fff16a70$0900a8c0@eremmell> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 In-Reply-To: X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > RFC 2461 says > > > Before a host sends an initial solicitation, it SHOULD delay the > > transmission for a random amount of time between 0 and > > MAX_RTR_SOLICITATION_DELAY. > > > RFC 2462 says > > > If the Neighbor Solicitation is the first message to be > sent from an > > interface after interface (re)initialization, the node > should delay > > sending the message by a random delay between 0 and > > MAX_RTR_SOLICITATION_DELAY as specified in [DISCOVERY]. > > > MAX_RTR_SOLICITATION_DELAY is 1 second. taking the worst > > case scenario, it could be 1 second before a sending > > router solicitation, one second before sending neighbor > solicitation > > for DAD and then 1 second before DAD completes. the Binding Update > > cannot be sent until then. Please re-read the above RFC-2462 requirement closely: "If the Neighbor Solicitation is the first message to be sent from an interface after interface (re)initialization..." The DAD NS in this case is *NOT* the first message to be sent, the RS is. Therefore, you do not need the random delay prior to sending the DAD NS in this case. The same random delay before sending the RS can apply to the DAD NS (because it is sent after the RS). That's the way we implement it currently, and it causes us to fail a couple of TAHI tests :-( but we believe we are 100% compliant with the RFCs w/ regards to implementing it this way. Thanks. - Ed Remmell Elmic Systems, USA --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.522 / Virus Database: 320 - Release Date: 9/29/2003 _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 4 12:25:22 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA24129 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 12:25:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH4vQ-00042f-CS for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 12:25:04 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA4HP4lX015531 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 12:25:04 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH4vQ-00042Q-6B for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 12:25:04 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA24070 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 12:24:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH4vO-0001Fu-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 12:25:02 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH4vO-0001Fp-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 12:25:02 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH4vO-00040h-Tv; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 12:25:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH4vF-000409-UH for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 12:24:53 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA24051 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 12:24:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH4vE-0001FN-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 12:24:52 -0500 Received: from e33.co.us.ibm.com ([32.97.110.131]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH4vD-0001EA-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 12:24:51 -0500 Received: from westrelay02.boulder.ibm.com (westrelay02.boulder.ibm.com [9.17.195.11]) by e33.co.us.ibm.com (8.12.10/8.12.2) with ESMTP id hA4HOLIw346410; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 12:24:21 -0500 Received: from rotala.raleigh.ibm.com (d03av02.boulder.ibm.com [9.17.193.82]) by westrelay02.boulder.ibm.com (8.12.9/NCO/VER6.6) with ESMTP id hA4HOK4G331714; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 10:24:20 -0700 Received: from rotala.raleigh.ibm.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by rotala.raleigh.ibm.com (8.12.8/8.12.5) with ESMTP id hA4HLCoA028355; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 12:21:12 -0500 Received: from rotala.raleigh.ibm.com (narten@localhost) by rotala.raleigh.ibm.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id hA4HLCM7028351; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 12:21:12 -0500 Message-Id: <200311041721.hA4HLCM7028351@rotala.raleigh.ibm.com> To: Basavaraj.Patil@nokia.com cc: mip6@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Mip6] Agenda for MIP6 at IETF58 In-Reply-To: Message from Basavaraj.Patil@nokia.com of "Tue, 04 Nov 2003 10:26:12 CST." <697DAA22C5004B4596E033803A7CEF44024DBA0A@daebe007.americas.nokia.com> Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 12:21:11 -0500 From: Thomas Narten Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Hi. I think this agenda looks generally good. One thing though: > 4. Inter Home Agents Protocol (HAHA) 10 Mins Ryuji Wakikawa > I-D: draft-wakikawa-mip6-nemo-haha-00.txt > Home agent reliability is a part of the MIP6 charter. This I-D > explores a possible solution. The intent is to seek WG support for > this item. This ID seems to be mostly a solution. Before looking at solutions, it would be good to focus on getting agreement on a problem statement. Once there is agreement on the problem statement, looking at solutions makes sense. Has the WG already agreed on a problem statement? "home agent reliability" is a pretty vague description. :-) Thomas _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 4 13:20:25 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA26130 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 13:20:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH5mg-00006w-5w for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 13:20:08 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA4IK6ZW000420 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 13:20:06 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH5me-00005e-Qv for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 13:20:04 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA26124 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 13:19:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH5mc-00029u-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 13:20:02 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH5mc-00029r-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 13:20:02 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH5md-00005A-Bd; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 13:20:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH5lr-0008VF-JG for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 13:19:15 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA26096 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 13:19:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH5lo-00029c-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 13:19:12 -0500 Received: from key1.docomolabs-usa.com ([216.98.102.225] helo=fridge.docomolabs-usa.com ident=fwuser) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH5ln-00029Z-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 13:19:11 -0500 Message-ID: <010e01c3a300$29c06cf0$9f6015ac@dclkempt40> From: "James Kempf" To: "Soliman Hesham" , "'Pekka Savola'" Cc: "Thomas Noel" , References: <748C6D0A58C0F94CA63C198B6674697A01922E73@ftmail.lab.flarion.com> Subject: Re: multi-interfaced vs multi-addressed [Re: [Mip6] Draft Agenda for WG meeting at IETF58] Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 10:19:19 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Multi6/ipv6 only need to be involved to solve the problem > of associating certain attributes to a prefix. MIPv6 needs > to allow for more than one coa to be associated with a single > hoa. Implementers need to put the pieces together and do > their own interface/coa selection algorithms. > And what would those attributes be? jak _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 4 13:34:21 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA26887 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 13:34:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH60A-0001LX-DV for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 13:34:02 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA4IY2Oe005169 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 13:34:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH60A-0001LI-89 for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 13:34:02 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA26874 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 13:33:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH608-0002QD-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 13:34:00 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH607-0002QA-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 13:33:59 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH609-0001Ko-DA; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 13:34:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH5zN-0001Ih-2c for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 13:33:13 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA26838 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 13:33:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH5zK-0002PV-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 13:33:10 -0500 Received: from key1.docomolabs-usa.com ([216.98.102.225] helo=fridge.docomolabs-usa.com ident=fwuser) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH5zK-0002PS-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 13:33:10 -0500 Message-ID: <016c01c3a302$22861320$9f6015ac@dclkempt40> From: "James Kempf" To: "Erik Nordmark" , "Soliman Hesham" Cc: "'Pekka Savola'" , "Thomas Noel" , References: Subject: Re: multi-interfaced vs multi-addressed [Re: [Mip6] Draft Agenda for WG meeting at IETF58] Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 10:33:24 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yes, I agree. The other thing I have a hard time understanding is exactly what information can be discovered at the IP layer to allow the home agent or corresponding node to intelligently utilize multiple addresses tied to one home address. The only thing I can see is ICMP Destination Unknown. If the home agent is utilizing one CoA and it receives this, it could switch to another, somewhat like SCTP. Most of the other kinds of ways I can think of to utilize multiple addresses involve decisions that might be better made at other layers, or at least might require a decision to be made at other layers, since the decision is not strictly about simple reachability. But perhaps I am missing something. jak ----- Original Message ----- From: "Erik Nordmark" To: "Soliman Hesham" Cc: "'Pekka Savola'" ; "Thomas Noel" ; Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 3:48 AM Subject: RE: multi-interfaced vs multi-addressed [Re: [Mip6] Draft Agenda for WG meeting at IETF58] > > Multi6/ipv6 only need to be involved to solve the problem > > of associating certain attributes to a prefix. MIPv6 needs > > to allow for more than one coa to be associated with a single > > hoa. Implementers need to put the pieces together and do > > their own interface/coa selection algorithms. > > I'm trying to understand different ways to factor this problem set. > > One aspect is that between a single home agent and a single home address > one can envision multiple tunnels to different CoAs, and then effectively > do multipath routing across those. In addition to the establishment of > such tunnels one also need to have a mechanism to determine the liveness > of the alternative paths/tunnels. (Perhaps that is what you mean by > interface/coa selection algorithms.) > > Moving this to a correspondent is effectively just a way to propagate the > tunnel endpoints to a different place in the topology. > > There is also the more traditional multihoming aspect of having multiple HoAs > assigned to the same node, which can provide additional resiliency and > perhaps load spreading when a mobile node has two relatively far apart > home agents. Presumably this is not mobility specific; a stationary node at > a homehomed household might want to benefit from this as well. > > Somewhat separately, there is the desire to do packet classification > at the sender so that different types of traffic can use different > paths (in the general case) or "tunnels" in the mobile-ip case. > Is this something that would only apply to the one HoA/multiple CoA case? > > Well, no. If there was such a capability why not be able to use it when there > are multiple HoAs as well? And be able to use if for multi-addressed nodes > that are not using Mobile IP. > One could also envision using such a classification mechanism as a way for > a node (mobile or not) at the end of a slow link to inform its access > router (at the other end of the slow link) which flows to prioritize > across that slow link. > > Erik > > > _______________________________________________ > Mip6 mailing list > Mip6@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 > _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 4 13:41:25 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA27074 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 13:41:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH671-00029m-8h for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 13:41:07 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA4If76t008284 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 13:41:07 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH671-00029X-1p for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 13:41:07 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA27061 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 13:40:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH66w-0002Tu-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 13:41:02 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH66v-0002Tp-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 13:41:01 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH66w-00028v-Nd; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 13:41:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH65z-00023X-6H for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 13:40:03 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA27021 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 13:39:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH65x-0002TM-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 13:40:01 -0500 Received: from key1.docomolabs-usa.com ([216.98.102.225] helo=fridge.docomolabs-usa.com ident=fwuser) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH65w-0002TJ-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 13:40:00 -0500 Message-ID: <019e01c3a303$16f043e0$9f6015ac@dclkempt40> From: "James Kempf" To: "Soliman Hesham" , "'Erik Nordmark'" Cc: "'Pekka Savola'" , "Thomas Noel" , References: <748C6D0A58C0F94CA63C198B6674697A01922E7B@ftmail.lab.flarion.com> Subject: Re: multi-interfaced vs multi-addressed [Re: [Mip6] Draft Agenda for WG meeting at IETF58] Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 10:40:15 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I'm assuming that we do not want to split a single connection > across multiple paths of course ;) > But there are credible proposals for applications that are suggesting this multilink kind of capability. In fact, I believe draft-elmalki-mobileip-bicasting-v6-03.txt, on which you were a co-author, did suggest splitting a flow across interfaces. jak _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 4 13:45:22 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA27162 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 13:45:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH6Ap-0002JG-I4 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 13:45:03 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA4Ij33c008872 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 13:45:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH6Ap-0002J1-DJ for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 13:45:03 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA27151 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 13:44:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH6An-0002VU-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 13:45:01 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH6Am-0002VR-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 13:45:00 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH6Ao-0002IV-5X; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 13:45:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH69n-0002Hj-WB for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 13:44:00 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA27120 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 13:43:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH69l-0002Uf-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 13:43:57 -0500 Received: from darkstar.iprg.nokia.com ([205.226.5.69]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH69k-0002UJ-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 13:43:56 -0500 Received: (from root@localhost) by darkstar.iprg.nokia.com (8.11.0/8.11.0-DARKSTAR) id hA4IgSd10010; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 10:42:28 -0800 X-mProtect: <200311041842> Nokia Silicon Valley Messaging Protection Received: from UNKNOWN (205.226.30.3, claiming to be "iprg.nokia.com") by darkstar.iprg.nokia.com smtpdK5nKi4; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 10:42:26 PST Message-ID: <3FA7F3CF.1070901@iprg.nokia.com> Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 10:45:35 -0800 From: Vijay Devarapalli User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Thomas Narten CC: Basavaraj.Patil@nokia.com, mip6@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Mip6] Agenda for MIP6 at IETF58 References: <200311041721.hA4HLCM7028351@rotala.raleigh.ibm.com> In-Reply-To: <200311041721.hA4HLCM7028351@rotala.raleigh.ibm.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hi Thomas, Thomas Narten wrote: > Hi. > > I think this agenda looks generally good. One thing though: > > >>4. Inter Home Agents Protocol (HAHA) 10 Mins Ryuji Wakikawa >> I-D: draft-wakikawa-mip6-nemo-haha-00.txt > > >>Home agent reliability is a part of the MIP6 charter. This I-D >>explores a possible solution. The intent is to seek WG support for >>this item. > > > This ID seems to be mostly a solution. Before looking at solutions, it > would be good to focus on getting agreement on a problem > statement. Once there is agreement on the problem statement, looking > at solutions makes sense. > > Has the WG already agreed on a problem statement? "home agent > reliability" is a pretty vague description. :-) we could spend more time on describing the actual problems that this ID is trying to solve. we can avoid spending a lot of time on the solution. infact the ID is kind of broad. the problems that the ID has solutions for 1. Home Agent reliability 2. Load sharing (ability to pick and switch Home Agents) 3. Binding Cache synchronization between Home Agents (we had a long discussion in the Mobile IP mailing list earlier on a mobile node which forgets which Home Agent it was registered when it was switched off and picks another Home Agent when it comes online a few minutes later. the binding with the new Home Agent cannot succeed until the binding on the old Home Agent expires. Binding cache synchronization helps avoid this). 4. MIPv6 currently restricts all Home Agents serving the a home prefix to be on the same physical home link. Vijay _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 4 14:18:26 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA29011 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 14:18:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH6gq-0005Xr-3j for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 14:18:08 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA4JI8Ri021309 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 14:18:08 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH6gp-0005Xc-TJ for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 14:18:08 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA28968 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 14:17:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH6gi-0003EG-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 14:18:00 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH6gh-0003EC-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 14:18:00 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH6gj-0005UV-FA; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 14:18:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH6gb-0005UD-Fa for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 14:17:53 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA28952 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 14:17:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH6gY-0003Df-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 14:17:50 -0500 Received: from e3.ny.us.ibm.com ([32.97.182.103]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH6gM-0003CT-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 14:17:38 -0500 Received: from northrelay02.pok.ibm.com (northrelay02.pok.ibm.com [9.56.224.150]) by e3.ny.us.ibm.com (8.12.10/8.12.2) with ESMTP id hA4JH7YJ263362; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 14:17:07 -0500 Received: from rotala.raleigh.ibm.com (d01av02.pok.ibm.com [9.56.224.216]) by northrelay02.pok.ibm.com (8.12.9/NCO/VER6.6) with ESMTP id hA4JH5pZ225582; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 14:17:06 -0500 Received: from rotala.raleigh.ibm.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by rotala.raleigh.ibm.com (8.12.8/8.12.5) with ESMTP id hA4JDvoA028858; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 14:13:57 -0500 Received: from rotala.raleigh.ibm.com (narten@localhost) by rotala.raleigh.ibm.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id hA4JDvRv028853; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 14:13:57 -0500 Message-Id: <200311041913.hA4JDvRv028853@rotala.raleigh.ibm.com> To: Vijay Devarapalli cc: Basavaraj.Patil@nokia.com, mip6@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Mip6] Agenda for MIP6 at IETF58 In-Reply-To: Message from vijayd@iprg.nokia.com of "Tue, 04 Nov 2003 10:45:35 PST." <3FA7F3CF.1070901@iprg.nokia.com> Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 14:13:52 -0500 From: Thomas Narten Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Hi Vijay. > we could spend more time on describing the actual problems > that this ID is trying to solve. we can avoid spending a > lot of time on the solution. That would be preferable, IMO. > infact the ID is kind of broad. the problems that the ID > has solutions for > 1. Home Agent reliability Please expand. > 2. Load sharing (ability to pick and switch Home Agents) transparently to the MN? Or does the MN need to know? and does this restrict backup HAs to be on the same link? And who needs to initiate a switch? Totally under the HA's control, or should MN be involved? > 3. Binding Cache synchronization between Home Agents > (we had a long discussion in the Mobile IP mailing list > earlier on a mobile node which forgets which Home Agent > it was registered when it was switched off and picks > another Home Agent when it comes online a few minutes > later. the binding with the new Home Agent cannot > succeed until the binding on the old Home Agent expires. > Binding cache synchronization helps avoid this). It does seem like there are some issues lurking there... > 4. MIPv6 currently restricts all Home Agents serving the > a home prefix to be on the same physical home link. yep. So how much do folks want to relax this distinction? Must be "nearby" (which I'm deliberately leaving vague, but presumably means within same organization where all the machines and infrastructure are under the same admin). Or, backup HAs can be located anywhere? (The former might have less complex solutions.) Thomas _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 4 14:34:21 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA29891 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 14:34:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH6wF-0007AG-4C for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 14:34:03 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA4JY31l027533 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 14:34:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH6wE-0007A0-U8 for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 14:34:02 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA29878 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 14:33:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH6wC-0003YR-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 14:34:00 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH6wB-0003YO-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 14:33:59 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH6wE-00079X-0G; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 14:34:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH6vy-00078N-7S for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 14:33:46 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA29874 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 14:33:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH6vv-0003YI-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 14:33:43 -0500 Received: from darkstar.iprg.nokia.com ([205.226.5.69]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH6vu-0003Y6-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 14:33:43 -0500 Received: (from root@localhost) by darkstar.iprg.nokia.com (8.11.0/8.11.0-DARKSTAR) id hA4JVtW17503; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:31:55 -0800 X-mProtect: <200311041931> Nokia Silicon Valley Messaging Protection Received: from UNKNOWN (205.226.30.3, claiming to be "iprg.nokia.com") by darkstar.iprg.nokia.com smtpdTXESrM; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 11:31:53 PST Message-ID: <3FA7FF67.6030109@iprg.nokia.com> Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 11:35:03 -0800 From: Vijay Devarapalli User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Thomas Narten CC: Basavaraj.Patil@nokia.com, mip6@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Mip6] Agenda for MIP6 at IETF58 References: <200311041913.hA4JDvRv028853@rotala.raleigh.ibm.com> In-Reply-To: <200311041913.hA4JDvRv028853@rotala.raleigh.ibm.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thomas Narten wrote: > Hi Vijay. > > >>we could spend more time on describing the actual problems >>that this ID is trying to solve. we can avoid spending a >>lot of time on the solution. > > > That would be preferable, IMO. > > >>infact the ID is kind of broad. the problems that the ID >>has solutions for > > >>1. Home Agent reliability > > > Please expand. sure. Home Agent goes down. MN has no indication. you have a big problem. with the HAHA protocol, another Home Agent can take over (because binding cache is synchronized) and the MN can be made to switch Home Agents (there are messages for this). >>2. Load sharing (ability to pick and switch Home Agents) > > > transparently to the MN? Or does the MN need to know? and does this > restrict backup HAs to be on the same link? And who needs to initiate > a switch? Totally under the HA's control, or should MN be involved? this is all open to discussion. the HAHA draft currently has a solution for this. but we dont have to talk about the solution in the draft yet. >>3. Binding Cache synchronization between Home Agents >> (we had a long discussion in the Mobile IP mailing list >> earlier on a mobile node which forgets which Home Agent >> it was registered when it was switched off and picks >> another Home Agent when it comes online a few minutes >> later. the binding with the new Home Agent cannot >> succeed until the binding on the old Home Agent expires. >> Binding cache synchronization helps avoid this). > > > It does seem like there are some issues lurking there... :) >>4. MIPv6 currently restricts all Home Agents serving the >> a home prefix to be on the same physical home link. > > > yep. So how much do folks want to relax this distinction? Must be > "nearby" (which I'm deliberately leaving vague, but presumably means > within same organization where all the machines and infrastructure are > under the same admin). Or, backup HAs can be located anywhere? (The > former might have less complex solutions.) this is something even Pascal, Ryuji and I couldnt agree on. :) I leave it to the WG to decide on which of the above problems (if any at all) should be solved in the MIP6 WG. Vijay _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 4 17:02:29 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA08016 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 17:02:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH9Fb-0000Bf-Bz for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 17:02:12 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA4M2BZM000716 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 17:02:11 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH9Fb-0000BT-4j for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 17:02:11 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA07984 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 17:01:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH9FY-0006Vi-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 17:02:09 -0500 Received: from manatick.foretec.com ([4.17.168.5] helo=manatick) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH9FX-0006Vf-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 17:02:08 -0500 Received: from [132.151.6.22] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by manatick with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1AH9FX-0007dI-5d for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 17:02:07 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH9FS-00009j-8F; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 17:02:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AH9Ey-00008p-Ep for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 17:01:32 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA07948; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 17:01:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH9Ev-0006Uw-00; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 17:01:29 -0500 Received: from nwkea-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.42.14]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AH9Ev-0006U2-00; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 17:01:29 -0500 Received: from jurassic.eng.sun.com ([129.146.84.45]) by nwkea-mail-2.sun.com (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA4M0xxA019122; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 14:00:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from shubho (shubho.Eng.Sun.COM [129.146.85.207]) by jurassic.eng.sun.com (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with SMTP id hA4M0wDd410505; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 14:00:58 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <200311042200.hA4M0wDd410505@jurassic.eng.sun.com> Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 14:02:19 -0800 (PST) From: Samita Chakrabarti Reply-To: Samita Chakrabarti To: ipv6@ietf.org Cc: erik.nordmark@sun.com, julien.laganier@sun.com, samita.chakrabarti@sun.com, mip6@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-MD5: eHxfkK7voWH0pRCTrZKT3A== X-Mailer: dtmail 1.3.0 @(#)CDE Version 1.6_31 SunOS 5.10 sun4u sparc Subject: [Mip6] Address Selection API draft Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , A revised version of Address Selection API draft, http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-chakrabarti-ipv6-addrselect-api-02.txt has been published recently. At Vienna IETF, the working group was polled to see if this document should become a WG item - I understand that more people wanted to read the draft to make a final decision. The following updates have been made as per working group input since then: * Added comments on JAVA API which might use this draft as a guideline. (section 1) * A section on design alternatives of API (section 2) * The Address selection API draft now addresses specific destination address selection as well as source address selection. socket option is changed from IPV6_SRC_PREFERENCES to IPV6_ADDR_PREFERENCES (section 4) * Introduced new flags for altering rules of default selection of destination address scope (section 4 and 5) * Discusses application requirement to support this API draft and implementation notes (section 6 and 7) * Discusses the choice of address selection rules from RFC3484 in the context of usefulness of this API (section 8) ---------------------------------------------- Please provide comments on this draft to the ipv6@ietf.org list and to the authors (CC'ed). Since it has been identified in the IPv6 group that a API is necessary for application specific control of address selection on a rfc3484 compliant system, the authors like to close any remaining issues on the list and request the working group to take this work as a working group item. Thanks, -Samita _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 4 22:14:21 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA20575 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 22:14:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHE7Q-0005gV-5O for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 22:14:04 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA53E4gr021847 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 22:14:04 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHE7P-0005gI-R8 for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 22:14:03 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA20531 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 22:13:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHE7M-0002zE-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 22:14:00 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHE7M-0002zA-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 22:14:00 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHE7M-0005fp-TR; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 22:14:00 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHE6z-0005eS-8x for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 22:13:37 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA20504 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 22:13:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHE6v-0002ym-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 22:13:33 -0500 Received: from mail.flarion.com ([63.103.94.23] helo=ftmail.lab.flarion.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHE6v-0002xh-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 22:13:33 -0500 Received: by ftmail.lab.flarion.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) id ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 22:13:00 -0500 Message-ID: <748C6D0A58C0F94CA63C198B6674697A01922E7E@ftmail.lab.flarion.com> From: Soliman Hesham To: "'James Kempf'" , "'Erik Nordmark'" Cc: "'Pekka Savola'" , Thomas Noel , mip6@ietf.org Subject: RE: multi-interfaced vs multi-addressed [Re: [Mip6] Draft Agenda for WG meeting at IETF58] Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 22:12:56 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , > > I'm assuming that we do not want to split a single connection > > across multiple paths of course ;) > > > > But there are credible proposals for applications that are > suggesting this > multilink kind of capability. => I think they'd have to be "incredible" proposals to suggest that ;) In fact, I believe > draft-elmalki-mobileip-bicasting-v6-03.txt, on which you > were a co-author, > did suggest splitting a flow across interfaces. => Absolutely not, it _copied_ packets and sent them on two different paths. This is completely different from splitting a flow. If you have a look at the draft you will see the precautions taken to 1) avoid duplication and 2) do something about it when it happens. Hesham > > jak > > > > _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 4 22:45:21 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA21755 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 22:45:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHEbP-0008G1-UE for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 22:45:04 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA53j3bA031735 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 22:45:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHEbP-0008Fm-OA for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 22:45:03 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA21720 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 22:44:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHEbM-0003Rq-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 22:45:00 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHEbL-0003Rn-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 22:44:59 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHEbN-0008FH-V6; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 22:45:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHEbH-0008El-KA for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 22:44:56 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA21705 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 22:44:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHEbE-0003RY-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 22:44:52 -0500 Received: from mail.flarion.com ([63.103.94.23] helo=ftmail.lab.flarion.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHEbD-0003R5-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 22:44:51 -0500 Received: by ftmail.lab.flarion.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) id ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 22:44:22 -0500 Message-ID: <748C6D0A58C0F94CA63C198B6674697A01922E81@ftmail.lab.flarion.com> From: Soliman Hesham To: "'Vijay Devarapalli'" , Thomas Narten Cc: Basavaraj.Patil@nokia.com, mip6@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Mip6] Agenda for MIP6 at IETF58 Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 22:44:13 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , > 4. MIPv6 currently restricts all Home Agents serving the > a home prefix to be on the same physical home link. => I guess you mean serving the "same MN" ? They can serve the same prefix but different MNs. Or am I missing some coffee! Hesham _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 4 23:36:28 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA22959 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 23:36:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHFOr-00029D-M5 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 23:36:10 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA54a9Yi008254 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 23:36:09 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHF2o-0001Z6-NN for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 23:13:22 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA22423 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 23:13:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHF2l-0003mp-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 23:13:19 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHF2k-0003mm-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 23:13:18 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHF2e-0001YT-9N; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 23:13:12 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHF22-0001Xg-65 for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 23:12:34 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA22398 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 23:12:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHF1z-0003mK-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 23:12:31 -0500 Received: from darkstar.iprg.nokia.com ([205.226.5.69]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHF1z-0003lp-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 23:12:31 -0500 Received: (from root@localhost) by darkstar.iprg.nokia.com (8.11.0/8.11.0-DARKSTAR) id hA54BuI07051; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 20:11:56 -0800 X-mProtect: <200311050411> Nokia Silicon Valley Messaging Protection Received: from UNKNOWN (205.226.30.3, claiming to be "iprg.nokia.com") by darkstar.iprg.nokia.com smtpdCdG9Wp; Tue, 04 Nov 2003 20:11:54 PST Message-ID: <3FA87949.9020306@iprg.nokia.com> Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 20:15:05 -0800 From: Vijay Devarapalli User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Soliman Hesham CC: Thomas Narten , Basavaraj.Patil@nokia.com, mip6@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Mip6] Agenda for MIP6 at IETF58 References: <748C6D0A58C0F94CA63C198B6674697A01922E81@ftmail.lab.flarion.com> In-Reply-To: <748C6D0A58C0F94CA63C198B6674697A01922E81@ftmail.lab.flarion.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Soliman Hesham wrote: > > 4. MIPv6 currently restricts all Home Agents serving the > > a home prefix to be on the same physical home link. > > => I guess you mean serving the "same MN" ? They can > serve the same prefix but different MNs. Or am I missing > some coffee! I wanted to say if there are multiple Home Agents serving a home prefix, they all have to be on the same physical home link. otherwise things dont work. for example, if the MN does dynamic home agent discovery, it wont get the list of all home agents serving its home prefix. DHAAD currently works only if all Home Agents are on the same physical link. the Home Agents list is constructed from listening to router advertisements from other Home Agents. Vijay _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Nov 5 00:13:23 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA23781 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 00:13:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHFyb-0003pQ-GW for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 00:13:05 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA55D5Q6014713 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 00:13:05 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHFyb-0003pE-As for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 00:13:05 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA23750 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 00:12:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHFyY-0004O1-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 00:13:03 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHFyY-0004Ny-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 00:13:02 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHFyX-0003ob-Ev; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 00:13:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHFxf-0003o4-M7 for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 00:12:07 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA23717 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 00:11:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHFxd-0004NJ-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 00:12:05 -0500 Received: from manatick.foretec.com ([4.17.168.5] helo=manatick) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHFxb-0004N6-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 00:12:04 -0500 Received: from host-64-110-77-18.interpacket.net ([64.110.77.18] helo=localhst1437.com) by manatick with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1AHFxX-0002vK-V1 for mip6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 00:12:02 -0500 From: "WILLIAMS OMOTOLO" Reply-To: williamsomotolo@hotmail.com To: mip6@ietf.org Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 21:11:38 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6900 DM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===_SecAtt_000_1fgbtegllylrpc" Message-Id: Subject: [Mip6] COMPLIMENT OF THE SEASON Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , --===_SecAtt_000_1fgbtegllylrpc Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From The Desk Of Dr Williams Omotolo Email=3Awilliamsomotolo=40hotmail=2Ecom Greetings=2C I want to bring to your knowledge of a very lucrative business opportunity=2Cwhich I will like you to consider as a golden opportunity worth doing=2E I have some money lodged in a private security vault out side Ghana and I would require your cooperation as a partner to claim it out from the security vault as the beneficiary=2E I work with the Central Bank of Ghana as a permanent secretary in the Governor's office=3B Cash payment Desk and I endorse diplomatic clearance for the diplomats who accompany contractor's funds in cash to seven countries for contract payments=2E Presently there are two boxes that contains Thirty four million United States Dollars=28 34=2C000=2C000=2E00=29 and in each of the boxes=2C it contains Seventeen million United States Dollars =28$17=2C000=2C000=2E00=29=2E These two boxes was supposed to be for contract payment of one contractor from Dominican Republic=2C who died but non of his next of kin has come to claim the funds=2E The governor of the Central Bank of Ghana then filled in a paper that I should endorse it for the funds to be returned to the government treasury=2E I did not endorse it but rather decided to divert it and moved it out of the country to a private security vault so as to use anyone that will be interested to work with me as a partner and claim the boxes=2E I have all necessary documents to get the boxes out from the security vault=2Cwhich I will give to you to qualify you the owner of the boxes=2E You will then get in touch with the person in charge of the security vault to notify them your coming to pick up the boxes=2C then you will be informed the country of location of the security vault to enable you prepare yourself for the trip=2E If you are willingly and interested in this business=2C please act fast to get in touch with me so that we can begin immediately to arrange getting the boxes out before it accumulates much charge due to the daily charges of $100=2E00 per day=2E And for your compensation=2C I would not be greedy because it is not my personal money=2C we will share it equally =2850%=2C 50%=29 as partners=2E I await your urgent response=2E Dr Williams Omotolo --===_SecAtt_000_1fgbtegllylrpc Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="uuu.txt" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="uuu.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 --===_SecAtt_000_1fgbtegllylrpc-- _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Nov 5 04:48:25 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA28581 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 04:48:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHKGk-0005dE-74 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 04:48:07 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA59m60w021648 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 04:48:06 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHKGj-0005d5-5x for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 04:48:05 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA28567 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 04:47:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHKGg-0000Rd-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 04:48:02 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHKGf-0000Ra-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 04:48:01 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHKGh-0005cc-89; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 04:48:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHKGC-0005cI-Ou for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 04:47:32 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA28561 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 04:47:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHKG8-0000RS-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 04:47:28 -0500 Received: from nwkea-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.42.13]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHKG8-0000RG-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 04:47:28 -0500 Received: from bebop.France.Sun.COM ([129.157.174.15]) by nwkea-mail-1.sun.com (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA59klUP007993; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 01:46:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from lillen (lillen [129.157.212.23]) by bebop.France.Sun.COM (8.11.7+Sun/8.10.2/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with SMTP id hA59kkS18912; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 10:46:46 +0100 (MET) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 10:46:10 +0100 (CET) From: Erik Nordmark Reply-To: Erik Nordmark Subject: Re: multi-interfaced vs multi-addressed [Re: [Mip6] Draft Agenda for WG meeting at IETF58] To: James Kempf Cc: Erik Nordmark , Soliman Hesham , "'Pekka Savola'" , Thomas Noel , mip6@ietf.org In-Reply-To: "Your message with ID" <016c01c3a302$22861320$9f6015ac@dclkempt40> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , > Yes, I agree. The other thing I have a hard time understanding is exactly > what information can be discovered at the IP layer to allow the home agent > or corresponding node to intelligently utilize multiple addresses tied to > one home address. One could run a periodic "hello" protocol to detect liveness of each tunnel and use that as an indication to switch from a failed tunnel/CoA to a working one. Doing this periodically is a waste of resources, thus if one is going to perform such liveness tests doing it only when data is being sent and not as a constant background load would make sense. This could be combined with other information like ICMP errors. But I suspect that there isn't a shared understanding of what multiple tunnels/CoAs for a single home address will bring to the table. One is better availability of the connection by doing failover. Another is combining it with some policy of what flows use which tunnel to provide a knob to control performance vs. cost. And perhaps there are other motivations. I suspect the solutions might be quite different depending on which of the possible problems people have in mind. Erik _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Nov 5 05:17:20 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA29322 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 05:17:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHKik-0007Le-OG for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 05:17:02 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA5AH2Au028239 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 05:17:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHKik-0007LK-EQ for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 05:17:02 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA29287 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 05:16:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHKih-0000mk-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 05:16:59 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHKig-0000mh-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 05:16:58 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHKii-0007IO-QE; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 05:17:00 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHKiQ-0007Hb-UC for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 05:16:43 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA29274 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 05:16:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHKiN-0000mO-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 05:16:39 -0500 Received: from mail.flarion.com ([63.103.94.23] helo=ftmail.lab.flarion.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHKiN-0000lu-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 05:16:39 -0500 Received: by ftmail.lab.flarion.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) id ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 05:16:07 -0500 Message-ID: <748C6D0A58C0F94CA63C198B6674697A01922E84@ftmail.lab.flarion.com> From: Soliman Hesham To: "'Erik Nordmark'" , James Kempf Cc: "'Pekka Savola'" , Thomas Noel , mip6@ietf.org Subject: RE: multi-interfaced vs multi-addressed [Re: [Mip6] Draft Agenda for WG meeting at IETF58] Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 05:16:03 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , > > Yes, I agree. The other thing I have a hard time > understanding is exactly > > what information can be discovered at the IP layer to > allow the home agent > > or corresponding node to intelligently utilize multiple > addresses tied to > > one home address. > > One could run a periodic "hello" protocol to detect liveness of > each tunnel and use that as an indication to switch from a > failed tunnel/CoA > to a working one. Doing this periodically is a waste of > resources, thus > if one is going to perform such liveness tests doing it only > when data > is being sent and not as a constant background load would make sense. > > This could be combined with other information like ICMP errors. > > But I suspect that there isn't a shared understanding of what > multiple tunnels/CoAs for a single home address will bring > to the table. > One is better availability of the connection by doing failover. > Another is combining it with some policy of what flows use > which tunnel > to provide a knob to control performance vs. cost. > And perhaps there are other motivations. => Personally, my motivation for doing this is to provide the right design for a higher granularity of mobility. Several things can be gained from this, the ones I originally thought of were: - Allowing for certain policies to exist, which can provide a better value for cost/link type to the MN. The cost issue is mainly financial. The link type issue is all about putting the right flow(s) on the best possible media. - As a handover optimisation: It is clear to me that there are different types of handover smoothing techniques which are suited to certain types of connections. It's the old packet loss Vs delays argument. Ditinguishing certain flows during a handover can be useful. Erik also mentioned the availability case which I never actually thought about (maybe because it's the most obvious!). But generally speaking, this is a feature that can augment the base mobility framework and when it's added I have a feeling that people will find more uses for it than what we're talking about. Hesham _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Nov 5 09:22:25 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA06435 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 09:22:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHOXt-0003vp-G8 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 09:22:08 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA5EM5Fe015106 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 09:22:05 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHOXt-0003vZ-84 for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 09:22:05 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA06405 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 09:21:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHOXr-0004pu-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 09:22:03 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHOXr-0004pr-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 09:22:03 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHOXp-0003uV-Kj; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 09:22:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHOXW-0003tP-Ne for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 09:21:42 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA06388; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 09:21:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHOXT-0004pE-00; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 09:21:39 -0500 Received: from p-mail1.rd.francetelecom.com ([195.101.245.15]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHOXS-0004pB-00; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 09:21:39 -0500 Received: from FTRDMEL2.rd.francetelecom.fr ([10.193.117.153]) by parsmtp2.rd.francetelecom.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6747); Wed, 5 Nov 2003 15:21:27 +0100 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6375.0 Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 15:21:27 +0100 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [Mipshop] fast handover revisions Thread-Index: AcOPoLY2WZvfsx4zT96Xw8IpN2XbcgUB1lyQ From: "NJEDJOU Eric FTRD/DMR/REN" To: "Rajeev Koodli" , , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Nov 2003 14:21:27.0843 (UTC) FILETIME=[19C12F30:01C3A3A8] Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [Mip6] RE: [Mipshop] fast handover revisions Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello folks, I get one remark on the the FMIPv6 specification update the specification says what follows: "The protocol begins when a MN sends RtSolPtr to its access router.... The trigger for sending RtSolPr can emanate from a link-specific event, such as the promise of better signal strength from another access point coupled with fading signal quality with the current access point. Such events, often broadly called as ``L2 triggers'', are outside the scope of this document. Nevertheless, they serve as important events that invoke the protocol. For instance, when a ``link up'' indication is obtained on the new link, the protocol messages (e.g., FNA) can be immediately transmitted. Implementations SHOULD make use of such triggers whenever available." The big problem with saying that "L2 triggers are out of scope" is that actually they are out of scope for all the documents that specify handovers. [FMIP4] is an example. Which implies, it should be let to implementors to decide how they build their triggers. This unfortunately will results in implementations that will inter-work very badly, if not at all. Even if this protocol is going experimental, i think is is still time for mipshop to give guidances to implementors on what they should consider as Fast Handoffs initiation/termination L2 triggers.=20 Triggers are available in almost every access technlogy. It could therefore be possible to identify them technology per technology and then define an abstraction just as what it is being done in DNA Working Group for instance that has initiated an effort to cataloguing link hints that can suggest that a Node has just attached/detached from a network and that can optimise the attachment process in terms of IP configuration. =20 While DNA is looking at Detecting network Attachment, Mipshop could be focusing on identifying and get a consensus on link triggers that can optimize the Fast Handoff operation in a couple of radio technologies, rather than letting this critical issue to the fancy of every implementator. Unless we really want that specification to rapidly go experimental and then just forget about. Comments are welcommed =20 Eric Nejdjou -----Message d'origine----- De : Rajeev Koodli [mailto:rajeev@iprg.nokia.com] Envoye : samedi 11 octobre 2003 04:37 A : mipshop@ietf.org; mip6@ietf.org Objet : [Mipshop] fast handover revisions Hello folks, I have made some changes. - consolidated the network-initiated handover to a Section (3.3) . Thanks to Jim Kempf for the suggestion and the text. - revised the security considerations section as a follow up on my previous message. This is mostly re-organizing the original text to more clearly outline the considerations and the suggested recommendations. I hope the draft is now ready for the last call! Chairs :-) I won't be able to participate in the discussions until IETF itself. I will be away for few weeks. Best Regards, -Rajeev ps: you can download the draft from http://people.nokia.net/~rajeev/draft-ietf-mobileip-fast-mip6-08.txt _______________________________________________ Mipshop mailing list Mipshop@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mipshop -----Message d'origine----- De : Rajeev Koodli [mailto:rajeev@iprg.nokia.com] Envoye : samedi 11 octobre 2003 04:37 A : mipshop@ietf.org; mip6@ietf.org Objet : [Mipshop] fast handover revisions Hello folks, I have made some changes. - consolidated the network-initiated handover to a Section (3.3) . Thanks to Jim Kempf for the suggestion and the text. - revised the security considerations section as a follow up on my previous message. This is mostly re-organizing the original text to more clearly outline the considerations and the suggested recommendations. I hope the draft is now ready for the last call! Chairs :-) I won't be able to participate in the discussions until IETF itself. I will be away for few weeks. Best Regards, -Rajeev ps: you can download the draft from http://people.nokia.net/~rajeev/draft-ietf-mobileip-fast-mip6-08.txt _______________________________________________ Mipshop mailing list Mipshop@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mipshop _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Nov 5 10:04:19 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA07999 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 10:04:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHPCT-0006KW-N3 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 10:04:01 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA5F41fK024326 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 10:04:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHPCT-0006KH-I0 for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 10:04:01 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA07930 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 10:03:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHPCR-0005Sf-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 10:03:59 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHPCR-0005Sc-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 10:03:59 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHPCS-0006Jp-Ca; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 10:04:00 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHPC2-0006JI-DX for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 10:03:34 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA07876 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 10:03:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHPC0-0005SE-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 10:03:32 -0500 Received: from e6.ny.us.ibm.com ([32.97.182.106]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHPBz-0005Rn-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 10:03:31 -0500 Received: from northrelay02.pok.ibm.com (northrelay02.pok.ibm.com [9.56.224.150]) by e6.ny.us.ibm.com (8.12.10/8.12.2) with ESMTP id hA5F31Vn732666; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 10:03:01 -0500 Received: from rotala.raleigh.ibm.com (d01av02.pok.ibm.com [9.56.224.216]) by northrelay02.pok.ibm.com (8.12.9/NCO/VER6.6) with ESMTP id hA5F300M187908; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 10:03:00 -0500 Received: from rotala.raleigh.ibm.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by rotala.raleigh.ibm.com (8.12.8/8.12.5) with ESMTP id hA5ExfoA001544; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 09:59:41 -0500 Received: from rotala.raleigh.ibm.com (narten@localhost) by rotala.raleigh.ibm.com (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) with ESMTP id hA5ExfAh001539; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 09:59:41 -0500 Message-Id: <200311051459.hA5ExfAh001539@rotala.raleigh.ibm.com> To: Vijay Devarapalli cc: Basavaraj.Patil@nokia.com, mip6@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Mip6] Agenda for MIP6 at IETF58 In-Reply-To: Message from vijayd@iprg.nokia.com of "Tue, 04 Nov 2003 11:35:03 PST." <3FA7FF67.6030109@iprg.nokia.com> Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 09:59:41 -0500 From: Thomas Narten Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , > >>1. Home Agent reliability > > > > > > Please expand. > sure. Home Agent goes down. MN has no indication. you have > a big problem. with the HAHA protocol, another Home Agent > can take over (because binding cache is synchronized) and > the MN can be made to switch Home Agents (there are messages > for this). So, the requirement seems to be HA failover. > >>2. Load sharing (ability to pick and switch Home Agents) > > > > > > transparently to the MN? Or does the MN need to know? and does this > > restrict backup HAs to be on the same link? And who needs to initiate > > a switch? Totally under the HA's control, or should MN be involved? > this is all open to discussion. the HAHA draft currently > has a solution for this. but we dont have to talk about > the solution in the draft yet. I suspect that there are a bunch of tradeoffs here. It would be advantageous if everything is transparent to MNs (i.e., no protocol changes). But what are the limitations? Are some of them significant? Talking about some of this (in fairly general terms) might be useful. > >>4. MIPv6 currently restricts all Home Agents serving the > >> a home prefix to be on the same physical home link. > > > > > > yep. So how much do folks want to relax this distinction? Must be > > "nearby" (which I'm deliberately leaving vague, but presumably means > > within same organization where all the machines and infrastructure are > > under the same admin). Or, backup HAs can be located anywhere? (The > > former might have less complex solutions.) > this is something even Pascal, Ryuji and I couldnt agree > on. :) Good reason for the WG to discuss then! Thomas _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Nov 5 11:04:20 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA11330 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 11:04:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHQ8Z-0001n9-Rp for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 11:04:04 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA5G43sD006881 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 11:04:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHQ8Z-0001mu-Kg for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 11:04:03 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA11318 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 11:03:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHQ8X-0006FK-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 11:04:01 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHQ8W-0006FE-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 11:04:00 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHQ8X-0001mA-SL; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 11:04:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHQ80-0001kf-LI for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 11:03:28 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA11291 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 11:03:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHQ7y-0006EK-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 11:03:26 -0500 Received: from yahoobb218136010014.bbtec.net ([218.136.10.14] helo=nagami1.inetcore.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHQ7x-0006EH-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 11:03:25 -0500 Received: from n-t23.wide.ad.jp (n-t23.inetcore.com [172.16.2.1]) by nagami1.inetcore.com (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hA5G36pK001229; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 01:03:07 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from nagami@wide.ad.jp) Message-Id: <6.0.0.20.2.20031106002434.047fb5e0@gw.inetcore.com> X-Sender: nagami@gw.inetcore.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6J-Jr1 Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 01:03:17 +0900 To: Vijay Devarapalli , Thomas Narten From: ken nagami Subject: Re: [Mip6] Agenda for MIP6 at IETF58 Cc: Basavaraj.Patil@nokia.com, mip6@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <3FA7FF67.6030109@iprg.nokia.com> References: <200311041913.hA4JDvRv028853@rotala.raleigh.ibm.com> <3FA7FF67.6030109@iprg.nokia.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Vijay and all, >>>4. MIPv6 currently restricts all Home Agents serving the >>> a home prefix to be on the same physical home link. >> >> yep. So how much do folks want to relax this distinction? Must be >> "nearby" (which I'm deliberately leaving vague, but presumably means >> within same organization where all the machines and infrastructure are >> under the same admin). Or, backup HAs can be located anywhere? (The >> former might have less complex solutions.) > >this is something even Pascal, Ryuji and I couldnt agree >on. :) I would like to relax the restriction for HA. Even if ISP which HA connects gets trouble, MN needs to communicate with CNs. Therefore, I want to put HAs on different ISP. I think it need to relax the restriction. Regards, Ken Nagami _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Nov 5 12:14:21 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA13455 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 12:14:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHREJ-0006bm-Bf for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 12:14:03 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA5HE3mP025396 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 12:14:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHREJ-0006bX-2H for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 12:14:03 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA13418 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 12:13:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHREH-00077E-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 12:14:01 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHREH-00077B-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 12:14:01 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHREH-0006b8-S2; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 12:14:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHRDi-0006aT-6c for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 12:13:26 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA13408 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 12:13:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHRDg-00076r-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 12:13:24 -0500 Received: from key1.docomolabs-usa.com ([216.98.102.225] helo=fridge.docomolabs-usa.com ident=fwuser) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHRDg-00076o-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 12:13:24 -0500 Message-ID: <005201c3a3c0$24012910$9f6015ac@dclkempt40> From: "James Kempf" To: "Soliman Hesham" , "'Erik Nordmark'" Cc: "'Pekka Savola'" , "Thomas Noel" , References: <748C6D0A58C0F94CA63C198B6674697A01922E7E@ftmail.lab.flarion.com> Subject: Re: multi-interfaced vs multi-addressed [Re: [Mip6] Draft Agenda for WG meeting at IETF58] Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 09:13:30 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > => Absolutely not, it _copied_ packets and sent them on two > different paths. This is completely different from splitting > a flow. If you have a look at the draft you will see > the precautions taken to 1) avoid duplication and 2) do something > about it when it happens. > Still, I would expect the same issues regarding the impact on congestion, load, and provisioning to come up as were raised in the rejection of multilink flows for SCTP. I suppose one could argue that since bicasting is not being proposed for load balancing and is intended to be used only intermittently during handover, so any problems would also be intermittent as well. jak _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Nov 5 16:45:36 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA25639 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 16:45:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHVSp-0000N7-5k for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 16:45:19 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA5LjJxv001425 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 16:45:19 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHVSp-0000Mu-0A for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 16:45:19 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA25490 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 16:45:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHVSm-000409-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 16:45:16 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHVSZ-0003yM-03 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 16:45:03 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHVPd-0008TJ-1y; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 16:42:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHVP2-0008RP-Pn for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 16:41:25 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA25361 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 16:41:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHVP0-0003ve-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 16:41:22 -0500 Received: from smtp800.mail.ukl.yahoo.com ([217.12.12.142]) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHVOz-0003v8-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 16:41:21 -0500 Received: from adsl-64-170-248-130.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net (HELO eremmell) (elmic@sbcglobal.net@64.170.248.130 with login) by smtp1.bt.mail.vip.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Nov 2003 21:40:51 -0000 From: "Ed Remmell" To: "'NJEDJOU Eric FTRD/DMR/REN'" , "'Rajeev Koodli'" , , Subject: RE: [Mip6] RE: [Mipshop] fast handover revisions Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 13:40:52 -0800 Message-ID: <000001c3a3e5$7df76770$0900a8c0@eremmell> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit FWIW, my understanding of L2 triggers: 1) category "network directed hop": This is where the network sends some type of message to the MN, that directs the MN to move and/or tells it that it has moved. I believe this is how MIPv6 fast handovers typically defines "L2 triggers", although I'm not so familiar with that material. 2) category "undirected hop": This is when the MN detects on its own either that it should move to a different link/channel, or it has already moved. This also includes the simple "link up" indication, however that indication does not necessarily indicate movement to a new link. If the link-layer incorporates the subnet information (for example, there is a draft for WiFi that recommends using the ESSID for this purpose; CDPD used the areaGroup color code in the MAC-layer blocks sent to the M-ES/MN by the cellular base station for this purpose, pre-MIPv6), then the MN at the link-layer (i.e. in the device driver) will be able to detect link movement that corresponds to subnet movement, and then can issue the appropriate L2 trigger to itself, in this case notifying its MN state machine of a subnet move ("L3 move"). I refer to these types of triggers as "L2 move" and "L3 move", the "link up" indication corresponding to "L2 move" because it may be movement back to the same link/subnet, and "L3 move" indicating a move to a new subnet. I treat NUD indication that the old default router is no longer reachable as a L3 move. Thanks. - Ed Remmell Elmic Systems, USA > -----Original Message----- > From: mip6-admin@ietf.org [mailto:mip6-admin@ietf.org] On > Behalf Of NJEDJOU Eric FTRD/DMR/REN > Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 6:21 AM > To: Rajeev Koodli; mipshop@ietf.org; mip6@ietf.org > Subject: [Mip6] RE: [Mipshop] fast handover revisions > > > Hello folks, > > I get one remark on the the FMIPv6 specification update > > the specification says what follows: > > "The protocol begins when a MN sends RtSolPtr to its access > router.... The trigger for sending RtSolPr can emanate from a > link-specific event, such as the promise of better signal > strength from another access point coupled with fading signal > quality with the current access point. Such events, often > broadly called as ``L2 triggers'', are outside the scope of > this document. Nevertheless, they serve as important events > that invoke the protocol. For instance, when a ``link up'' > indication is obtained on the new link, the protocol messages > (e.g., FNA) can be immediately transmitted. Implementations > SHOULD make use of such triggers whenever available." > > The big problem with saying that "L2 triggers are out of > scope" is that actually they are out of scope for all the > documents that specify handovers. [FMIP4] is an example. > Which implies, it should be let to implementors to decide how > they build their triggers. This unfortunately will results in > implementations that will inter-work very badly, if not at > all. Even if this protocol is going experimental, i think is > is still time for mipshop to give guidances to implementors > on what they should consider as Fast Handoffs > initiation/termination L2 triggers. > Triggers are available in almost every access technlogy. It > could therefore be possible to identify them technology per > technology and then define an abstraction just as what it is > being done in DNA Working Group for instance that has > initiated an effort to cataloguing link hints that can > suggest that a Node has just attached/detached from a network > and that can optimise the attachment process in terms of IP > configuration. > While DNA is looking at Detecting network Attachment, Mipshop > could be focusing on identifying and get a consensus on link > triggers that can optimize the Fast Handoff operation in a > couple of radio technologies, rather than letting this > critical issue to the fancy of every implementator. Unless we > really want that specification to rapidly go experimental and > then just forget about. > > Comments are welcommed > > Eric Nejdjou > -----Message d'origine----- > De : Rajeev Koodli [mailto:rajeev@iprg.nokia.com] > Envoye : samedi 11 octobre 2003 04:37 > A : mipshop@ietf.org; mip6@ietf.org > Objet : [Mipshop] fast handover revisions > > > > Hello folks, > > I have made some changes. > > - consolidated the network-initiated handover to a Section (3.3) . > Thanks to Jim Kempf for the suggestion and the text. > - revised the security considerations section as a follow up on my > previous message. This is mostly re-organizing the original text > to more clearly outline the considerations and the suggested > recommendations. > > I hope the draft is now ready for the last call! Chairs :-) > > I won't be able to participate in the discussions until IETF > itself. I will be away for few weeks. > > Best Regards, > > -Rajeev > > ps: you can download the draft from > > http://people.nokia.net/~rajeev/draft-ietf-mobileip-fast-mip6-08.txt > > > _______________________________________________ > Mipshop mailing list > Mipshop@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mipshop > > -----Message d'origine----- > De : Rajeev Koodli [mailto:rajeev@iprg.nokia.com] > Envoye : samedi 11 octobre 2003 04:37 > A : mipshop@ietf.org; mip6@ietf.org > Objet : [Mipshop] fast handover revisions > > > > Hello folks, > > I have made some changes. > > - consolidated the network-initiated handover to a Section (3.3) . > Thanks to Jim Kempf for the suggestion and the text. > - revised the security considerations section as a follow up on my > previous message. This is mostly re-organizing the original text > to more clearly outline the considerations and the suggested > recommendations. > > I hope the draft is now ready for the last call! Chairs :-) > > I won't be able to participate in the discussions until IETF > itself. I will be away for few weeks. > > Best Regards, > > -Rajeev > > ps: you can download the draft from > http://people.nokia.net/~rajeev/draft-ietf-mobileip-fast-mip6-08.txt _______________________________________________ Mipshop mailing list Mipshop@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mipshop _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.522 / Virus Database: 320 - Release Date: 9/29/2003 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.522 / Virus Database: 320 - Release Date: 9/29/2003 _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Nov 5 16:58:20 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA26060 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 16:58:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHVf8-00011l-Qs for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 16:58:02 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA5Lw2Mg003900 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 16:58:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHVf8-00010T-G7 for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 16:58:02 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA26050 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 16:57:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHVf6-0004Bh-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 16:58:00 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHVf5-0004Be-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 16:57:59 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHVf7-0000zn-DL; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 16:58:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHVet-0000zA-2B for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 16:57:47 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA26044 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 16:57:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHVeq-0004BP-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 16:57:44 -0500 Received: from smtp804.mail.ukl.yahoo.com ([217.12.12.141]) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHVeq-0004BB-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 16:57:44 -0500 Received: from adsl-64-170-248-130.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net (HELO eremmell) (elmic@sbcglobal.net@64.170.248.130 with login) by smtp1.bt.mail.vip.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Nov 2003 21:57:13 -0000 From: "Ed Remmell" To: "'NJEDJOU Eric FTRD/DMR/REN'" , "'Rajeev Koodli'" , , Subject: RE: [Mip6] RE: [Mipshop] fast handover revisions Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 13:57:14 -0800 Message-ID: <000101c3a3e7$c7bb9c80$0900a8c0@eremmell> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <000001c3a3e5$7df76770$0900a8c0@eremmell> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit BTW, RA beacons per Eager Cell Switching is another example of a L2 trigger, in this case the MN receiving a RA from a new router indicates a "L3 move". - Ed --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.522 / Virus Database: 320 - Release Date: 9/29/2003 _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Nov 5 18:13:20 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA29912 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 18:13:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHWpj-000050-BN for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 18:13:03 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA5ND3PA032736 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 18:13:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHWpi-0008V7-Vw for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 18:13:03 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA29870 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 18:12:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHWpg-0005Q7-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 18:13:00 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHWpf-0005Q4-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 18:12:59 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHWph-0008R7-F4; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 18:13:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHWot-0006fV-BH for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 18:12:11 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA29766 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 18:11:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHWoq-0005PT-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 18:12:08 -0500 Received: from darkstar.iprg.nokia.com ([205.226.5.69]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHWop-0005PK-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 18:12:07 -0500 Received: (from root@localhost) by darkstar.iprg.nokia.com (8.11.0/8.11.0-DARKSTAR) id hA5NBXe01380; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 15:11:33 -0800 X-mProtect: <200311052311> Nokia Silicon Valley Messaging Protection Received: from UNKNOWN (205.226.30.3, claiming to be "iprg.nokia.com") by darkstar.iprg.nokia.com smtpd22lu2k; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 15:11:32 PST Message-ID: <3FA98467.6070804@iprg.nokia.com> Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 15:14:47 -0800 From: Vijay Devarapalli User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Thomas Narten CC: Basavaraj.Patil@nokia.com, mip6@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Mip6] Agenda for MIP6 at IETF58 References: <200311051459.hA5ExfAh001539@rotala.raleigh.ibm.com> In-Reply-To: <200311051459.hA5ExfAh001539@rotala.raleigh.ibm.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thomas Narten wrote: >>>>1. Home Agent reliability >>> >>> >>>Please expand. > > >>sure. Home Agent goes down. MN has no indication. you have >>a big problem. with the HAHA protocol, another Home Agent >>can take over (because binding cache is synchronized) and >>the MN can be made to switch Home Agents (there are messages >>for this). > > > So, the requirement seems to be HA failover. well, the charter says - Improving home agent reliability: in the event of a home agent crashing, this would allow another home agent to continue providing service to a given mobile node. >>>>2. Load sharing (ability to pick and switch Home Agents) >>> >>> >>>transparently to the MN? Or does the MN need to know? and does this >>>restrict backup HAs to be on the same link? And who needs to initiate >>>a switch? Totally under the HA's control, or should MN be involved? > > >>this is all open to discussion. the HAHA draft currently >>has a solution for this. but we dont have to talk about >>the solution in the draft yet. > > > I suspect that there are a bunch of tradeoffs here. It would be > advantageous if everything is transparent to MNs (i.e., no protocol > changes). But what are the limitations? Are some of them significant? > Talking about some of this (in fairly general terms) might be useful. agree that there would be tradeoffs. the MN continues to send reverse tunneled packets to the Home Agent which just crashed. it would be good if the MN can switch Home Agents. OTOH, if the Home Agent, which took over, can proxy the address of the Home Agent which crashed, then maybe we can do it transparently. Vijay _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Nov 5 19:42:21 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA03188 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 19:42:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHYDq-00034x-32 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 19:42:02 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA60g2Gm011829 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 19:42:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHYDp-00034e-S1 for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 19:42:01 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA03183 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 19:41:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHYDn-0006f1-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 19:42:00 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHYDn-0006ey-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 19:41:59 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHYDo-000343-Fd; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 19:42:00 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHYCz-00031O-TC for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 19:41:10 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA03154 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 19:40:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHYCy-0006eU-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 19:41:08 -0500 Received: from alpha8.its.monash.edu.au ([130.194.1.8]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHYCx-0006eM-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 19:41:07 -0500 Received: from localhost ([130.194.13.83]) by vaxh.its.monash.edu.au (PMDF V5.2-31 #39306) with ESMTP id <01L2PK0RKESI8WZ4C0@vaxh.its.monash.edu.au> for mip6@ietf.org; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 11:17:54 +1100 Received: from splat.its.monash.edu.au (localhost.its.monash.edu.au [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF75323C006; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 11:17:53 +1100 (EST) Received: from eng.monash.edu.au (knuth.eng.monash.edu.au [130.194.252.110]) by splat.its.monash.edu.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id C832B164004; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 11:17:53 +1100 (EST) Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 11:17:53 +1100 From: Greg Daley Subject: Re: [Mip6] Agenda for MIP6 at IETF58 To: Vijay Devarapalli Cc: Thomas Narten , Basavaraj.Patil@nokia.com, mip6@ietf.org Reply-to: greg.daley@eng.monash.edu.au Message-id: <3FA99331.5040107@eng.monash.edu.au> Organization: Monash University MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.0.0) Gecko/20020529 X-Accept-Language: en, en-us References: <200311051459.hA5ExfAh001539@rotala.raleigh.ibm.com> <3FA98467.6070804@iprg.nokia.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hi Vijay, Vijay Devarapalli wrote: [cut] >>>>> 2. Load sharing (ability to pick and switch Home Agents) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> transparently to the MN? Or does the MN need to know? and does this >>>> restrict backup HAs to be on the same link? And who needs to initiate >>>> a switch? Totally under the HA's control, or should MN be involved? >>> >> >> >>> this is all open to discussion. the HAHA draft currently >>> has a solution for this. but we dont have to talk about >>> the solution in the draft yet. >> >> >> >> I suspect that there are a bunch of tradeoffs here. It would be >> advantageous if everything is transparent to MNs (i.e., no protocol >> changes). But what are the limitations? Are some of them significant? >> Talking about some of this (in fairly general terms) might be useful. > > > agree that there would be tradeoffs. the MN continues to send > reverse tunneled packets to the Home Agent which just crashed. > it would be good if the MN can switch Home Agents. OTOH, if > the Home Agent, which took over, can proxy the address of the > Home Agent which crashed, then maybe we can do it transparently. One mechanism which could be used for this, is if the advertised HA addresses were VRRP instances, and the hosts exchanged information about binding caches on other addresses. Obviously, we're not up to talking about mechanisms yet, but it seems like this is a feasible thing to swap HAs with little or no MN knowledge. Greg _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Nov 5 20:12:21 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA04213 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 20:12:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHYgt-00052Y-4p for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 20:12:03 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA61C3QR019367 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 20:12:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHYgs-00052I-Rl for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 20:12:03 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA04204 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 20:11:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHYgq-00076x-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 20:12:00 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHYgq-00076u-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 20:12:00 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHYgr-00050O-5g; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 20:12:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHYgX-0004yu-2V for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 20:11:41 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA04188 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 20:11:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHYgU-00076T-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 20:11:38 -0500 Received: from darkstar.iprg.nokia.com ([205.226.5.69]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHYgU-000768-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 20:11:38 -0500 Received: (from root@localhost) by darkstar.iprg.nokia.com (8.11.0/8.11.0-DARKSTAR) id hA61Adc26355; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 17:10:39 -0800 X-mProtect: <200311060110> Nokia Silicon Valley Messaging Protection Received: from UNKNOWN (205.226.30.3, claiming to be "iprg.nokia.com") by darkstar.iprg.nokia.com smtpd7iIMgc; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 17:10:37 PST Message-ID: <3FA9A050.30802@iprg.nokia.com> Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 17:13:52 -0800 From: Vijay Devarapalli User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: greg.daley@eng.monash.edu.au CC: Thomas Narten , Basavaraj.Patil@nokia.com, mip6@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Mip6] Agenda for MIP6 at IETF58 References: <200311051459.hA5ExfAh001539@rotala.raleigh.ibm.com> <3FA98467.6070804@iprg.nokia.com> <3FA99331.5040107@eng.monash.edu.au> In-Reply-To: <3FA99331.5040107@eng.monash.edu.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greg Daley wrote: >> agree that there would be tradeoffs. the MN continues to send >> reverse tunneled packets to the Home Agent which just crashed. >> it would be good if the MN can switch Home Agents. OTOH, if >> the Home Agent, which took over, can proxy the address of the >> Home Agent which crashed, then maybe we can do it transparently. > > > One mechanism which could be used for this, is > if the advertised HA addresses were VRRP instances, > and the hosts exchanged information about binding > caches on other addresses. the solution should also work if the multiple Home Agents are not on the same physical link. VRRP, I think, requires all routers to be on the same link. Vijay _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Nov 5 20:56:20 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA05480 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 20:56:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHZNS-0007H1-7m for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 20:56:02 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA61u2Dp027953 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 20:56:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHZNS-0007Gm-1W for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 20:56:02 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA05451 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 20:55:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHZNP-0007aS-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 20:55:59 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHZNP-0007aP-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 20:55:59 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHZNQ-0007GB-Lo; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 20:56:00 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHZN0-0007Ff-PA for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 20:55:34 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA05443 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 20:55:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHZMy-0007Zz-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 20:55:32 -0500 Received: from alpha2.its.monash.edu.au ([130.194.1.4]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHZMx-0007Zw-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 20:55:31 -0500 Received: from localhost ([130.194.13.81]) by vaxc.its.monash.edu.au (PMDF V6.1 #39306) with ESMTP id <01L2PMSV3JVO8ZQ0BH@vaxc.its.monash.edu.au> for mip6@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 12:37:50 +1100 Received: from kapow.its.monash.edu.au (localhost.its.monash.edu.au [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1301D1B0002; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 12:37:49 +1100 (EST) Received: from eng.monash.edu.au (knuth.eng.monash.edu.au [130.194.252.110]) by kapow.its.monash.edu.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE5E4124003; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 12:37:48 +1100 (EST) Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 12:37:48 +1100 From: Greg Daley Subject: Re: [Mip6] Agenda for MIP6 at IETF58 To: Vijay Devarapalli Cc: Thomas Narten , Basavaraj.Patil@nokia.com, mip6@ietf.org Reply-to: greg.daley@eng.monash.edu.au Message-id: <3FA9A5EC.1060909@eng.monash.edu.au> Organization: Monash University MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en, en-us User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.0.0) Gecko/20020529 References: <200311051459.hA5ExfAh001539@rotala.raleigh.ibm.com> <3FA98467.6070804@iprg.nokia.com> <3FA99331.5040107@eng.monash.edu.au> <3FA9A050.30802@iprg.nokia.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hi Vijay, Vijay Devarapalli wrote: > Greg Daley wrote: > >>> agree that there would be tradeoffs. the MN continues to send >>> reverse tunneled packets to the Home Agent which just crashed. >>> it would be good if the MN can switch Home Agents. OTOH, if >>> the Home Agent, which took over, can proxy the address of the >>> Home Agent which crashed, then maybe we can do it transparently. >> >> >> >> One mechanism which could be used for this, is >> if the advertised HA addresses were VRRP instances, >> and the hosts exchanged information about binding >> caches on other addresses. > > > the solution should also work if the multiple Home Agents > are not on the same physical link. VRRP, I think, requires > all routers to be on the same link. If the routers aren't on the same link, it is likely (except if we're talking multilinks), that the home network is on an isolated interface, which can be moved between the two networks exclusively by routing. In this case VRRP is not needed. The issue was that other (non-HA) hosts could be on a shared network, in which case it is important not only to have IP routing working correctly, but local delivery (i.e. Neighbor Discovery). In this case, VRRP provides advantages which remove some requirements for IP address and NC update (maybe NA:O=1 can do almost as well, though). Greg _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Nov 5 21:17:19 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA06111 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 21:17:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHZhm-0000nU-8n for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 21:17:02 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA62H2gc003058 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 21:17:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHZhm-0000nF-1u for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 21:17:02 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA06097 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 21:16:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHZhj-00005C-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 21:16:59 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHZhj-000059-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 21:16:59 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHZhl-0000lk-0U; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 21:17:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHZhK-0000kE-L3 for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 21:16:34 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA06065 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 21:16:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHZhH-00004e-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 21:16:31 -0500 Received: from mail.flarion.com ([63.103.94.23] helo=ftmail.lab.flarion.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHZhH-00003p-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 21:16:31 -0500 Received: by ftmail.lab.flarion.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) id ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 21:15:55 -0500 Message-ID: <748C6D0A58C0F94CA63C198B6674697A01922E88@ftmail.lab.flarion.com> From: Soliman Hesham To: "'Vijay Devarapalli'" , greg.daley@eng.monash.edu.au Cc: Thomas Narten , Basavaraj.Patil@nokia.com, mip6@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Mip6] Agenda for MIP6 at IETF58 Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 21:15:52 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , > > One mechanism which could be used for this, is > > if the advertised HA addresses were VRRP instances, > > and the hosts exchanged information about binding > > caches on other addresses. > > the solution should also work if the multiple Home Agents > are not on the same physical link. VRRP, I think, requires > all routers to be on the same link. > => I've seen this statement a few times in this thread. I wanted to clarify that this is not a MIPv6 restriction, it's an IP restriction. Nodes serving the same prefix are expected to be on the same link. I haven't read your draft yet but I'm interested in knowing how people plan to remove that restriction. Hesham _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Nov 5 22:12:19 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA07624 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 22:12:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHaZ0-0003ug-Qm for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 22:12:03 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA63C2Yf015036 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 22:12:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHaZ0-0003uR-Ks for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 22:12:02 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA07614 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 22:11:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHaYx-0000ne-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 22:11:59 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHaYx-0000nb-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 22:11:59 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHaYz-0003tx-Fw; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 22:12:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHaY9-0003p6-1q for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 22:11:09 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA07591 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 22:10:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHaY5-0000n5-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 22:11:05 -0500 Received: from e33.co.us.ibm.com ([32.97.110.131]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHaY5-0000ms-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 22:11:05 -0500 Received: from westrelay01.boulder.ibm.com (westrelay01.boulder.ibm.com [9.17.195.10]) by e33.co.us.ibm.com (8.12.10/8.12.2) with ESMTP id hA63AUIw388298; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 22:10:30 -0500 Received: from cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com (sig-9-65-247-134.mts.ibm.com [9.65.247.134]) by westrelay01.boulder.ibm.com (8.12.9/NCO/VER6.6) with ESMTP id hA63ASfI091984; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 20:10:29 -0700 Received: from cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com (narten@localhost) by cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com (8.11.6/8.9.3) with ESMTP id hA637m406099; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 22:07:48 -0500 Message-Id: <200311060307.hA637m406099@cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com> To: Soliman Hesham cc: "'Vijay Devarapalli'" , greg.daley@eng.monash.edu.au, Basavaraj.Patil@nokia.com, mip6@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Mip6] Agenda for MIP6 at IETF58 In-Reply-To: Message from H.Soliman@flarion.com of "Wed, 05 Nov 2003 21:15:52 EST." <748C6D0A58C0F94CA63C198B6674697A01922E88@ftmail.lab.flarion.com> Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 22:07:48 -0500 From: Thomas Narten Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Hesham brings up a key point here. Sure, it would of course be nice if backup HAs didn't have to be on the same link as the HA. But I don't see right off how you do that without introducing all kinds of complexity; you have to have some way of getting packets routed to the other HAs, and normal IP routing only knows how to deliver packets to the destination link. So this is an example of where I think just talking about the requirement doesn't make sense. There has to also be a general idea (or "architecture" if you may) that explains how we can make this work, so that folks can decide whether the benefit justifies the cost. Thomas > > > One mechanism which could be used for this, is > > > if the advertised HA addresses were VRRP instances, > > > and the hosts exchanged information about binding > > > caches on other addresses. > > > > the solution should also work if the multiple Home Agents > > are not on the same physical link. VRRP, I think, requires > > all routers to be on the same link. > > > => I've seen this statement a few times in this thread. > I wanted to clarify that this is not a MIPv6 restriction, > it's an IP restriction. Nodes serving the same prefix are > expected to be on the same link. I haven't read your draft yet > but I'm interested in knowing how people plan to remove > that restriction. > Hesham _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Nov 5 22:39:19 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA08542 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 22:39:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHaz8-0005cF-I6 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 22:39:03 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA63d2c7021580 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 22:39:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHaz8-0005bz-Cv for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 22:39:02 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA08483 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 22:38:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHaz4-0001Ao-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 22:38:59 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHaz4-0001Ag-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 22:38:58 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHaz6-0005bF-Gc; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 22:39:00 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHayL-0005YW-SR for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 22:38:14 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA08461 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2003 22:37:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHayI-00019y-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 22:38:10 -0500 Received: from p6048-air01hon128k.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp ([221.113.209.48] helo=nagami1.inetcore.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHayG-00019u-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Wed, 05 Nov 2003 22:38:10 -0500 Received: from n-t23.wide.ad.jp (n-t23.inetcore.com [172.16.2.1]) by nagami1.inetcore.com (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hA62DhpK001971; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 11:13:44 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from nagami@wide.ad.jp) Message-Id: <6.0.0.20.2.20031106101855.06f37120@gw.inetcore.com> X-Sender: nagami@gw.inetcore.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6J-Jr1 Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 12:27:34 +0900 To: ryuji@sfc.wide.ad.jp, vijay.devarapalli@nokia.com, pthubert@cisco.com From: ken nagami Cc: mip6@ietf.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Mip6] Questin about HAHA protocol Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Ryuji, Vijay, Pascal, I have questions about "Binding synchronization among HA" in the HAHA protocol. (1) If the Binding Information Reply message is lost, does the primary HA re-send the message ? I think the draft does not describe Ack message for Binding Information reply message. This paragraph is section 3 in HAHA protocol draft. When a primary Home Agent receives a Binding Update and creates a binding, it notifies the binding to the other Home Agents by unicasting Binding Information Reply messages. Home Agents receiving the Binding Information Reply message records binding information and the address of the primary home agent into their binding cache. (2) HA needs to configure an IP address of all other HA. This is full mesh configuration. Operation of full mesh model is hard, because all HA need to change configuration when one HA is added/changed/deleted. How do you think? (3) I think there is other protocol to synchronize among HA. I think Binding synchronization among HA using TCP, like the BGP, is better solution. This solution solves above full mesh issue using a mechanism like route reflector and binding synchronization protocol will be simple because re-transmission is done by TCP. How do you think? Regards, Ken Nagami _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Nov 6 04:24:53 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA00328 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 04:24:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHgNW-0007v2-IM for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 04:24:34 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA69OYvu030427 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 04:24:34 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHgNU-0007uW-OS for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 04:24:32 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA00237 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 04:24:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHgNQ-0005T7-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 04:24:28 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHgNQ-0005QI-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 04:24:28 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHgN1-0007bs-8o; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 04:24:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHfG9-0004Bu-Kn for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 03:12:53 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA28125 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 03:12:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHfG7-0004YZ-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 03:12:51 -0500 Received: from manatick.foretec.com ([4.17.168.5] helo=manatick) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHfG5-0004YW-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 03:12:49 -0500 Received: from [216.185.65.90] (helo=192.168.3.40) by manatick with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1AHfFk-00070j-1w for mip6@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 03:12:34 -0500 From: "John Doe" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0034_01C221EC.6C64F7B0" Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 00:12:28 -0800 Reply-To: "John Doe" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-Id: Subject: [Mip6] Urgent Asistance Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , ------=_NextPart_000_0034_01C221EC.6C64F7B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hello Attn sir/madam, I am Nicky Taylor, a resident in Monrovia Liberia, I urgently want to acquire properties eg, Two different houses in a very good city as soon as possible. There is a war currently going on in my country Hence i want to relocate my whole family for safety. Please contact me immediately. With best regards, Nicky Taylor okoro2001@zwallet.com ------=_NextPart_000_0034_01C221EC.6C64F7B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" E-mail message content
Hello
Attn sir/madam,
I am Nicky Taylor, a resident in Monrovia Liberia, I urgently want to acquire properties eg, Two different houses in a very good city as soon as possible. There is a war currently going on in my country Hence i want to relocate my whole family for safety.
Please contact me immediately.
 
With best regards,
Nicky Taylor
okoro2001@zwallet.com
 
 ------=_NextPart_000_0034_01C221EC.6C64F7B0-- _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Nov 6 04:45:50 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA01604 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 04:45:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHgho-00021I-2J for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 04:45:32 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA69jWZ1007758 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 04:45:32 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHghn-000213-FU for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 04:45:31 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA01428 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 04:45:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHghk-0005uA-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 04:45:28 -0500 Received: from manatick.foretec.com ([4.17.168.5] helo=manatick) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHgdI-0005gP-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 04:40:53 -0500 Received: from [132.151.6.22] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by manatick with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1AHgUu-0001EH-E8 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 04:32:15 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHgNa-0007wx-N8; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 04:24:38 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHfpw-0005rr-G2 for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 03:49:52 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA29225 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 03:49:40 -0500 (EST) From: Basavaraj.Patil@nokia.com Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHfpt-00053V-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 03:49:49 -0500 Received: from mgw-x4.nokia.com ([131.228.20.27]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHfpt-00053S-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 03:49:49 -0500 Received: from esvir03nok.nokia.com (esvir03nokt.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.143.35]) by mgw-x4.nokia.com (Switch-2.2.8/Switch-2.2.8) with ESMTP id hA68nnF01252 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 10:49:49 +0200 (EET) Received: from daebh001.NOE.Nokia.com (unverified) by esvir03nok.nokia.com (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.2.5) with ESMTP id for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 10:49:47 +0200 Received: from daebe007.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.18.242.211]) by daebh001.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6747); Thu, 6 Nov 2003 00:49:46 -0800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 02:49:45 -0600 Message-ID: <697DAA22C5004B4596E033803A7CEF44024DBA24@daebe007.americas.nokia.com> Thread-Topic: [Mip4] IKEv2 Mobility and Multihoming BOF Tue, Nov 11, 1700-1800 Thread-Index: AcOitesxYxj7KcWkQMuaYqd0a9aNtgBjOrYw To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Nov 2003 08:49:46.0227 (UTC) FILETIME=[EDE15430:01C3A442] Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [Mip6] FW: [Mip4] IKEv2 Mobility and Multihoming BOF Tue, Nov 11, 1700-1800 Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This BoF is of interest to people in the MIP6 WG as well. -----Original Message----- From: mip4-admin@ietf.org [mailto:mip4-admin@ietf.org]On Behalf Of ext Tero Kivinen Sent: 04 November, 2003 12:57 AM To: mip4@ietf.org Subject: [Mip4] IKEv2 Mobility and Multihoming BOF Tue, Nov 11, 1700-1800 There has been some interest in the IPsec working group to add features to IKEv2 to support roaming, mobility, and multihoming. The IPsec working group decided that those issues are not included as part of the current IKEv2 core protocol, but instead they are handled in separate documents and/or working group.=20 The mobility features are need to support Mobile IP efficiently, and are also used in the cases where devices perform roaming (move around and the IP address changes), and they do want to keep the existing IKE and IPsec SAs in place even when the IP address changes without full rekeying. The features needed include way to update the IKEv2 SA and IPsec SA endpoint addresses without need of the rekeying the SAs, and also authenticating those changes (return routability or similar).=20 Another feature needed is to support multihoming and support having multiple IP addresses tied to one IKEv2 SA and IPsec SA. This support is needed by routers having multiple interfaces, when using SCTP, and in cases where for example mobile device might have multiple different connections to the internet (i.e for example WLAN and GPRS). Some way to authenticate those multiple IP addresses is also needed. The features should then be used by the Mobile IP, HIP, etc working groups as building blocks to create their final protocols, but some of the features can immediately be used in the IPsec VPNs too (client roaming in VPN case, SCTP, multihoming support).=20 The BOF is currently scheduled for Tuesday, November 11, 2003, at 1700-1800. The BOF have some kind of web pages at http://mobike.kivinen.iki.fi/index.html. The web pages have agenda for the meeting, proposed charter and basic introduction to the problem. The BOF mailing list: General Discussion: mobike@machshav.com To subscribe: mobike-request@machshav.com Archive and general information: https://www.machshav.com/mailman/listinfo/mobike The MOBIKE BOF's goal is to verify that we have enough interest to define mobility and multihoming extensions to the current IKEv2 protocol. --=20 kivinen@ssh.fi SSH Communications Security http://www.ssh.fi/ SSH IPSEC Toolkit http://www.ssh.fi/ipsec/ --=20 Mip4 mailing list Mip4@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip4 _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Nov 6 05:30:23 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA03166 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 05:30:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHhOu-0005vF-TP for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 05:30:05 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA6AU4a3022758 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 05:30:04 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHhOu-0005uz-MJ for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 05:30:04 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA03150 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 05:29:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHhOr-0006cy-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 05:30:01 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHhOq-0006cv-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 05:30:00 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHhOs-0005uH-J3; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 05:30:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHhOg-0005tk-VF for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 05:29:51 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA03130 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 05:29:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHhOd-0006cI-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 05:29:47 -0500 Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com ([144.254.74.5]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHhOd-0006c1-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 05:29:47 -0500 Received: from cisco.com (144.254.74.60) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 06 Nov 2003 11:27:02 +0100 Received: from xbe-lon-302.cisco.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ams-msg-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.6) with ESMTP id hA6AT7GG020591; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 11:29:07 +0100 (MET) Received: from xbe-lon-313.cisco.com ([64.103.99.73]) by xbe-lon-302.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5329); Thu, 6 Nov 2003 10:29:15 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [Mip6] HAHA architecture was: Agenda for MIP6 at IETF58 Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 10:29:14 -0000 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [Mip6] HAHA architecture was: Agenda for MIP6 at IETF58 Thread-Index: AcOkE9FosAE7BBaFShuv2lbTKfH1hgAJa65g From: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" To: "Thomas Narten" , "Soliman Hesham" Cc: "Vijay Devarapalli" , , , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Nov 2003 10:29:15.0930 (UTC) FILETIME=[D419B7A0:01C3A450] Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >=20 > Hesham brings up a key point here. Sure, it would of course be nice if > backup HAs didn't have to be on the same link as the HA. But I don't > see right off how you do that without introducing all kinds of > complexity; you have to have some way of getting packets routed to the > other HAs, and normal IP routing only knows how to deliver packets to > the destination link. >=20 > So this is an example of where I think just talking about the > requirement doesn't make sense. There has to also be a general idea > (or "architecture" if you may) that explains how we can make this > work, so that folks can decide whether the benefit justifies the cost. >=20 This is why we published the draft in such early stage... to check for interest and trigger a discussion. Seems to be working :) This discussion is actually at the core HAHA. MIPv6 implicitly requires a Home subnet on a Home link:=20 - the Binding Cache operates like an ARP/ND cache at delivery time - the 'Hello' protocol between HAs is based on a ND extension.=20 - so is the Binding uniqueness checking, which uses DAD.=20 Since the workings of ND do not necessarily match the needs of MIP, this lead to a bunch of issues in the past. Obviously, the bright side is a lot of reuse of existing features, as opposed to developing... a HAHA protocol.=20 Well, it is untrue that the IP mobility concept requires a Home Subnet on a Home Link.=20 What it needs is least one router that advertises Home (: whatever that is :), attracting the packets for a group of MNs, and that knows how and where to tunnel to these MN. There can actually be more than one such point, as long as each one knows how to tunnel to any given MN, directly or via an other cluster. The point is that IP mobility can operate at routing (L3) time as opposed to delivery (L2) time. An illustration of that is the virtual home network in http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-thubert-nemo-basic-usages-00.t xt=20 Note that with Nemo basic support, Home is no more just a subnet, but that it can be an aggregation. That aggregation can be advertised by mobile points of presence (clusters of HAs with HAHA support) that are scattered around the globe.=20 An illustration of how this aggregation can be partitioned this is given in appendix: +---------------------------------- | +-------------+ ^ ^ | | +-----+ | ^ | | | | | MNP | | | | | | | +-----+ | HA | | cluster | | | +-----+ | share | | share | | | | MNP | | | | | | | +-----+ | v | | | | +-----+ | ^ | | | | | | | | | | | | +-----+ | HA | | | | | +-----+ | share | | | | | | | | | | | | | +-----+ | v | | | | | | | | | Local Home | | | | | Network | v | | +-------------+ | | | | +-------------+ | | | | | | | +-----+ | | | | | | | global | | | +-----+ | Home | | | | Network | | +-------------+ | +--------------------------------- v Figure 5: Distributed Hierarchical Home Network =20 The goal is that the routing fabric always leads a MN to the closest HA cluster. A HA in that cluster could take the registration and share it with the rest of the HAs in all the clusters. The goal here is to partially optimize the path when the MN and its correspondent are in a same locality, without bypassing the MRHA tunnel.=20 Pascal _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Nov 6 05:51:20 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA03675 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 05:51:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHhjD-0006oh-8Q for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 05:51:03 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA6Ap3gC026197 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 05:51:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHhjD-0006oS-28 for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 05:51:03 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA03656 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 05:50:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHhj9-0006uK-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 05:50:59 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHhj8-0006uH-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 05:50:59 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHhjB-0006np-Gq; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 05:51:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHhiI-0006l2-QW for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 05:50:06 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA03624 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 05:49:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHhiF-0006tU-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 05:50:03 -0500 Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com ([144.254.74.5]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHhiE-0006tM-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 05:50:02 -0500 Received: from cisco.com (144.254.74.60) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 06 Nov 2003 11:47:18 +0100 Received: from xbe-lon-302.cisco.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ams-msg-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.6) with ESMTP id hA6AnOTK026072; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 11:49:24 +0100 (MET) Received: from xbe-lon-313.cisco.com ([64.103.99.73]) by xbe-lon-302.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5329); Thu, 6 Nov 2003 10:49:32 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [Mip6] Agenda for MIP6 at IETF58 Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 10:49:31 -0000 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [Mip6] Agenda for MIP6 at IETF58 Thread-Index: AcOj/uA2e2IbFIn4RtuaH7c8WnVbhQAUyYxg From: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" To: , "Vijay Devarapalli" Cc: "Thomas Narten" , , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Nov 2003 10:49:32.0930 (UTC) FILETIME=[A97D2E20:01C3A453] Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > Vijay Devarapalli wrote: > [cut] > >>>>> 2. Load sharing (ability to pick and switch Home Agents) > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> transparently to the MN? Or does the MN need to know? and does this > >>>> restrict backup HAs to be on the same link? And who needs to initiate > >>>> a switch? Totally under the HA's control, or should MN be involved? > >>> > >> > >> > >>> this is all open to discussion. the HAHA draft currently > >>> has a solution for this. but we dont have to talk about > >>> the solution in the draft yet. > >> > >> > >> > >> I suspect that there are a bunch of tradeoffs here. It would be > >> advantageous if everything is transparent to MNs (i.e., no protocol > >> changes). But what are the limitations? Are some of them significant? > >> Talking about some of this (in fairly general terms) might be useful. > > > > > > agree that there would be tradeoffs. the MN continues to send > > reverse tunneled packets to the Home Agent which just crashed. > > it would be good if the MN can switch Home Agents. OTOH, if > > the Home Agent, which took over, can proxy the address of the > > Home Agent which crashed, then maybe we can do it transparently. >=20 > One mechanism which could be used for this, is > if the advertised HA addresses were VRRP instances, > and the hosts exchanged information about binding > caches on other addresses. >=20 > Obviously, we're not up to talking about mechanisms yet, > but it seems like this is a feasible thing to swap > HAs with little or no MN knowledge. >=20 Hi Greg :) We discussed that privately and since interest is raised, it's good to start doing it in the open. It will be good if HAHA can reuse as much as possible the thinking that lead to existing protocols.=20 - Sure, High Availability and load sharing can reuse some HSRP/VRRP/netdispatcher ideas - HA discovery (by other HAs) has a lot to do with existing hello protocols - HA discovery (by MN) could be based on anycast on the overall aggregation. But alternatively, the HAs could return a list based on the location of the careof as DNSes often do. - The Predictive mode (in appendix, please read on) inherits from CARP. It would be great to have people with related expertise join the discussion :) Pascal =20 _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Nov 6 06:02:20 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA04098 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 06:02:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHhtq-0007mL-FK for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 06:02:03 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA6B22R4029895 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 06:02:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHhtq-0007m6-8r for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 06:02:02 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA04087 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 06:01:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHhtm-00075N-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 06:01:58 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHhtm-00075K-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 06:01:58 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHhtp-0007kc-8U; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 06:02:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHhtR-0007k2-99 for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 06:01:37 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA04080 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 06:01:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHhtN-00075B-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 06:01:33 -0500 Received: from mail.flarion.com ([63.103.94.23] helo=ftmail.lab.flarion.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHhtN-00074v-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 06:01:33 -0500 Received: by ftmail.lab.flarion.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) id ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 06:00:57 -0500 Message-ID: <748C6D0A58C0F94CA63C198B6674697A01922E94@ftmail.lab.flarion.com> From: Soliman Hesham To: "'Pascal Thubert (pthubert)'" , Thomas Narten , Soliman Hesham Cc: Vijay Devarapalli , greg.daley@eng.monash.edu.au, Basavaraj.Patil@nokia.com, mip6@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Mip6] HAHA architecture was: Agenda for MIP6 at IETF58 Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 06:00:52 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , > Well, it is untrue that the IP mobility concept requires a > Home Subnet > on a Home Link. > > What it needs is least one router that advertises Home (: > whatever that > is :), attracting the packets for a group of MNs, and that > knows how and > where to tunnel to these MN. There can actually be more than one such > point, as long as each one knows how to tunnel to any given > MN, directly > or via an other cluster. => Hmm. There are two issues here: 1. The location of the HAs wrt each other (i.e. on the same link or not) 2. How to replicate the HA functions across multiple devices. In (1) above we need to understand the complexities involved in having an HA function replicated on a different link. I assume that if you use ND then you're assuming they exist on the same link. If that's the case, I wonder if we can extend/reuse VRRP (IPR issues aside). If you try to put HAs on multiple links, you're effectively (from what you say above) making the HA's address look and act like an anycast address. This leads us to point (2) above. Anycast may work if you only take the narrow view of "HA forwarding". But if you start to look at all the functions performed by the HA, security becomes your enemy IMO :( Anycast is fine if there is no dialogue going on. But if you're going to run a protocol between two points which consists of more than one round trip (e.g. IKE) you're in trouble. That's why VRRP (or something like it where two routers share the link) seems like a good option because it allows for the standby to become active when needed (i.e. instead of being always active). Hesham _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Nov 6 10:39:06 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA13743 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 10:39:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHmDh-0005QL-1k for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 10:38:49 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA6FcnE8020843 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 10:38:49 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHmDg-0005Q6-T8 for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 10:38:48 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA13732 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 10:38:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHmDe-0002bi-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 10:38:46 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHmDe-0002bY-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 10:38:46 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHmCv-0005Gf-0u; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 10:38:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHmCM-00059K-58 for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 10:37:26 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA13686; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 10:37:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHmCJ-0002av-00; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 10:37:23 -0500 Received: from zmamail05.zma.compaq.com ([161.114.64.105]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHmCI-0002ar-00; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 10:37:22 -0500 Received: from tayexg11.americas.cpqcorp.net (tayexg11.americas.cpqcorp.net [16.103.130.96]) by zmamail05.zma.compaq.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85C0BFDF6; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 10:37:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from tayexc13.americas.cpqcorp.net ([16.103.130.26]) by tayexg11.americas.cpqcorp.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Thu, 6 Nov 2003 10:37:22 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [Mipshop] RE: [Mip6] Mobile IPv6 Interop Testing Draft Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 10:37:21 -0500 Message-ID: <9C422444DE99BC46B3AD3C6EAFC9711B0512254B@tayexc13.americas.cpqcorp.net> Thread-Topic: [Mipshop] RE: [Mip6] Mobile IPv6 Interop Testing Draft Thread-Index: AcOc6AuylaiO/x8rSHqD3ZaTgnDNsQHk75Aw From: "Bound, Jim" To: "Samita Chakrabarti" , Cc: , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Nov 2003 15:37:22.0245 (UTC) FILETIME=[DECD8750:01C3A47B] Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This is fine optimization for lab or testing but don't expect production MN's to do this or assume it in any specs std or operational. /jim > -----Original Message----- > From: mipshop-admin@ietf.org [mailto:mipshop-admin@ietf.org]=20 > On Behalf Of Samita Chakrabarti > Sent: Monday, October 27, 2003 2:27 PM > To: Maeva.Petitjean@etsi.org > Cc: mip6@ietf.org; mipshop@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Mipshop] RE: [Mip6] Mobile IPv6 Interop Testing Draft >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > >=20 > > 5.3.1. Home Agent > >=20 > > - Company and contact information > >=20 > > - Home agent IPv6 address and the corresponding IPv4=20 > addresses (if > > dual stack) > >=20 > > --> Is there more than one corresponding IPv4 address for one IPv6 > > address ? > >=20 >=20 >=20 > Actually listing IPv4 addresses are not necessary. But=20 > sometimes knowing the corresponding IPv4 address helps in=20 > finding out whether the node is dead or having trouble with=20 > IPv6 connection. Thus one IPv4 address on the node should be=20 > fine, I think. > =20 > > - List of home-addresses it assigns. This list must=20 > also indicate > > which home-addresses are presently used and which=20 > are available. > > Example: > > HOA1 (used by KEIO Univ.- contact name) > > HOA2 (available) > > HOA3 (available) > >=20 > > --> Is there more than one home-address for one home agent ? > >=20 >=20 > Yes. It depends on the administrator of the home-agent. I=20 > assume, usually they would allow multiple mobile-nodes for testing. >=20 >=20 > -Samita >=20 >=20 > >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Samita Chakrabarti [mailto:Samita.Chakrabarti@eng.sun.com] > > Sent: 20 October 2003 19:54 > > To: mip6@ietf.org; mipshop@ietf.org > > Subject: [Mip6] Mobile IPv6 Interop Testing Draft > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > > As per Basavaraj Patil's recommendation, a mip6-interop design team=20 > > has been formed and the team has worked on producing the=20 > first draft=20 > > on the Mobile IPv6 remote interop testing requirements,=20 > scenarios and=20 > > procedures. > >=20 > > The draft has been submitted as an individual draft for > > now, but it is targeting to be a working group draft in > > the next revision. It is available through T.J Kniveton's webpage=20 > > until the draft becomes available at the IETF directory. > >=20 > >=20 > http://www.mipv6.org/specs/draft-kniveton-> mipv6-remote-testing-00.txt > >=20 > >=20 > > Thanks. > >=20 > > The mip6-interop design team. > > T.J Kniveton, > > Basavaraj Patil, > > Hesham Soliman, > > Henrik Petander, > > Samita Chakrabarti > >=20 > >=20 > > _______________________________________________ > > Mip6 mailing list > > Mip6@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 > >=20 > > _______________________________________________ > > Mipshop mailing list > > Mipshop@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mipshop > >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Mipshop mailing list > Mipshop@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mipshop >=20 _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Nov 6 11:33:25 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA16940 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 11:33:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHn4A-0001RC-R8 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 11:33:07 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA6GX23D005519 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 11:33:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHn4A-0001Qw-Kk for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 11:33:02 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA16927 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 11:32:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHn49-0003iw-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 11:33:01 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHn49-0003iq-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 11:33:01 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHn49-0001Nx-9q; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 11:33:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHn3J-0001Kt-J3 for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 11:32:09 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA16837 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 11:31:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHn3I-0003hq-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 11:32:08 -0500 Received: from iramx2.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de ([141.3.10.81]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHn3H-0003hO-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 11:32:07 -0500 Received: from irams1.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de ([141.3.10.5] helo=irams1.ira.uka.de) by iramx2.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de with esmtp (Exim 3.30 #10 (Debian)) id 1AHn2t-0006ut-00; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 17:31:43 +0100 Received: from i72tobias.tm.uni-karlsruhe.de ([141.3.71.75] helo=i72tobias) by irams1.ira.uka.de with esmtp (Exim 3.30 #7 (Debian)) id 1AHn2s-0001jC-00; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 17:31:42 +0100 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Tobias_K=FCfner?= To: , , , Cc: Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 17:31:44 +0100 Message-ID: <002901c3a483$8912fd60$4b47038d@tm.unikarlsruhe.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Mip6] Question on draft-montavont-mobileip-multihoming-pb-statement Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear authors, I read your draft and followed your recent discussion about multihomed MNs on the mailing list. Anyhow, I'm not sure whether I understand your taxonomy, especially scenario 6 and 7, where there's a MN with two or more interfaces but only one HoA (1,*,n). What happens when this MN is at home? Which interface uses the HoA? Or is the HoA shared by two or more interfaces (L2 addresses)? How can the MN use a HoA and a CoA at the same time if it only has _one_ HoA (scenario 7)? What happens to packets addressed to the HoA? Are they delivered to the HA or to the MN? Thank you, Tobias _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Nov 6 11:33:26 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA16941 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 11:33:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHn4B-0001RR-0h for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 11:33:07 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA6GX2gr005535 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 11:33:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHn4A-0001R6-Qc for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 11:33:02 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA16930 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 11:32:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHn49-0003iz-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 11:33:01 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHn49-0003is-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 11:33:01 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHn48-0001Nf-UB; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 11:33:00 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHn3J-0001Ku-JR for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 11:32:09 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA16835 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 11:31:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHn3I-0003hn-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 11:32:08 -0500 Received: from iramx2.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de ([141.3.10.81]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHn3H-0003hj-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 11:32:07 -0500 Received: from irams1.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de ([141.3.10.5] helo=irams1.ira.uka.de) by iramx2.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de with esmtp (Exim 3.30 #10 (Debian)) id 1AHn2I-0006uQ-00; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 17:31:06 +0100 Received: from i72tobias.tm.uni-karlsruhe.de ([141.3.71.75] helo=i72tobias) by irams1.ira.uka.de with esmtp (Exim 3.30 #7 (Debian)) id 1AHn2H-0001gg-00; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 17:31:05 +0100 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Tobias_K=FCfner?= To: , , , Cc: Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 17:31:07 +0100 Message-ID: <002801c3a483$7321eca0$4b47038d@tm.unikarlsruhe.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Mip6] Question on draft-montavont-mobileip-multihoming-pb-statement Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear authors, I read your draft and followed your recent discussion about multihomed MNs on the mailing list. Anyhow, I'm not sure whether I understand your taxonomy, especially scenario 6 and 7, where there's a MN with two or more interfaces but only one HoA (1,*,n). What happens when this MN is at home? Which interface uses the HoA? Or is the HoA shared by two or more interfaces (L2 addresses)? How can the MN use a HoA and a CoA at the same time if it only has _one_ HoA (scenario 7)? What happens to packets addressed to the HoA? Are they delivered to the HA or to the MN? Thank you, Tobias _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Nov 6 12:13:01 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA18910 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 12:13:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHngY-0004Po-K9 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 12:12:43 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA6HCgCZ016966 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 12:12:42 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHngY-0004PZ-E1 for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 12:12:42 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA18864 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 12:12:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHngU-0004JV-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 12:12:38 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHngS-0004Iu-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 12:12:36 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHnfu-0004LN-5u; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 12:12:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHnfQ-0004KP-Vo for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 12:11:33 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA18816 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 12:11:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHnfP-0004IX-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 12:11:31 -0500 Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com ([144.254.74.5]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHnfO-0004Hr-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 12:11:30 -0500 Received: from cisco.com (144.254.74.60) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 06 Nov 2003 18:08:44 +0100 Received: from xbe-lon-302.cisco.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ams-msg-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.6) with ESMTP id hA6HAo2K012541; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 18:10:50 +0100 (MET) Received: from xbe-lon-313.cisco.com ([64.103.99.73]) by xbe-lon-302.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5329); Thu, 6 Nov 2003 17:10:58 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C3A488.F1D32500" Subject: RE: [Mip6] HAHA architecture was: Agenda for MIP6 at IETF58 Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 17:10:57 -0000 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: yes Thread-Topic: [Mip6] HAHA architecture was: Agenda for MIP6 at IETF58 Thread-Index: AcOkVWecW5bE4tRyRB6wVfv2kbUjrAAGnGFw From: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" To: "Soliman Hesham" , "Thomas Narten" Cc: "Vijay Devarapalli" , , , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Nov 2003 17:10:58.0797 (UTC) FILETIME=[F28759D0:01C3A488] Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C3A488.F1D32500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >=20 >=20 > > Well, it is untrue that the IP mobility concept requires a=20 > > Home Subnet > > on a Home Link.=20 > >=20 > > What it needs is least one router that advertises Home (:=20 > > whatever that > > is :), attracting the packets for a group of MNs, and that=20 > > knows how and > > where to tunnel to these MN. There can actually be more=20 > than one such > point, as long as each one knows how to=20 > tunnel to any given=20 > > MN, directly > > or via an other cluster.=20 >=20 > =3D> Hmm. There are two issues here: > 1. The location of the HAs wrt each other (i.e. on the=20 > same link or not) We want to allow the 'not' part :) Make it an L3 thing. > 2. How to replicate the HA functions across multiple > devices.=20 >=20 Yes, and we propose 3 approaches with different behaviours: proactive, reactive and predictive.=20 Depending on the approach, the relation between the primary HA and the other HAs may be more like a proxy type (as HMIP) then a replication thing.=20 It may happen that the mechanism for High Availability (that we can expect to be 'local', as you point out) is different from the mechanism for geo distribution of HAs, we'll have to decide that. Maybe we can leave full High Availability (HA, damn) to optional existing processes such as HSRP or VRRP, as you mention, but gain some level of it by a proxying process? > In (1) above we need to understand the complexities involved > in having an HA function replicated on a different link. > I assume that if you use ND then you're assuming they > exist on the same link. If that's the case, I wonder if we=20 > can extend/reuse VRRP (IPR issues aside).=20 > If you try to put HAs on multiple links, you're effectively=20 > (from what you say above) making the HA's address look and=20 > act like an anycast address. This leads us to point (2) > above.=20 You still think "HA on links" as opposed to Home networks. We are not configuring a same address on several interfaces, making it anycast as you point out.=20 We are making 'Home' an aggregation of Home subnets and Mobile Networks. And we are advertising that aggregation from several places.=20 But the final subnets of that aggregation are still located in a unique place, be they Mobile Links or Home Links (unless other tricks are being played as part of an other game such as site replication). The only time I mentioned anycast is for DHAAD purposes, as in MIP. If several clusters advertise the same aggregation, a DHAAD request should get to the closest cluster.=20 But this may be stretching anycast a little bit? Since we expect anycast addresses to be built after subnets, not aggregations, do we? Say we get passed that issue. Anyway at the end of DHAAD, we should have made it so that a MN gets a list with HAs in teh closest cluster. So the MN would register to a (primary) HA in a relatively close location.=20 So in my mind, HAHA can be (among other things as Vijay mentioned) either about finding who the primary HA is and tunnel (HA to HA) to it (: which I tend to favor :), OR sharing the BCE info in all geographies, which links to security issues and impacts on the MN, as you mentioned. One way of envisionning the first possibility is: - MN register to closest HA (primary HA) - primary HA instanciates a MRHA tunnel and creates a route over that tunnel to the MN (MNP) that is being registered - primary HA redistributes that route to other HAs using HAHA protocol. This is a proactive model where HAHA looks like a classical Routing Protocol after all. No binding caches, just routes. Now, we may want to distribute these routes to remote clusters only on demand. Or we may have a predictable HA that centralizes the registration for a set of MN and have the primary act as a proxy to it. Very open at this point of time :)=20 If there is a real Home Network for that MN, then the primary HA must proactively either register to one of the Home Network HA in a proxy fashion (not exactly HMIP, though, since it is transparent to the MN), or sync the binding with it, in order for that HA to intercept packets on the Home link. But supporting the Home Link is not necessarily a priority here (we almost removed coming Home in MIPv6, right?) =20 >=20 > Anycast may work if you only take the narrow view of "HA=20 > forwarding". But if you start to look at all the functions=20 > performed by the HA, security becomes your enemy IMO :(=20 > Anycast is fine if there is no dialogue going on. But if > you're going to run a protocol between two points which=20 > consists of more than one round trip (e.g. IKE) you're in=20 > trouble.=20 >=20 > That's why VRRP (or something like it where two=20 > routers share the link) seems like a good option because > it allows for the standby to become active when needed > (i.e. instead of being always active).=20 Right. *For the high availability part*, it seems be good that the back up be on a same link. No the backing up can be transparent to the MN or not. It could be good to be able to push a new HA to a MN in some circumstances, as is also being proposed in MIP4. Anyway the link between HAs backing up each other does not have to be a Home link for MIP purposes, right? Pascal ------_=_NextPart_001_01C3A488.F1D32500 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; name="Pascal Thubert (pthubert@cisco.com).vcf" Content-Description: Pascal Thubert (pthubert@cisco.com).vcf Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Pascal Thubert (pthubert@cisco.com).vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 QkVHSU46VkNBUkQNClZFUlNJT046Mi4xDQpOOlRodWJlcnQ7UGFzY2FsDQpGTjpQYXNjYWwgVGh1 YmVydCAocHRodWJlcnRAY2lzY28uY29tKQ0KT1JHOkNpc2NvIFN5c3RlbXM7VGVjaCBDZW50cmUg LSBGcmFuY2UNClRJVExFOlNvZnR3YXJlIEVuZ2luZWVyDQpURUw7V09SSztWT0lDRTorMzMgKDAp NDkgNzIzLTI2MzQNClRFTDtIT01FO1ZPSUNFOiszMyA0OTMgMzIxIDc0NQ0KVEVMO0NFTEw7Vk9J Q0U6KzMzKDApNiAxOSA5OCAyOSA4NQ0KVEVMO1BBR0VSO1ZPSUNFOjE1OTA0DQpURUw7V09SSztG QVg6KzMzKDApNCA5NyAyMyAyNiAyNg0KQURSO1dPUks7RU5DT0RJTkc9UVVPVEVELVBSSU5UQUJM RTo7O1ZpbGxhZ2UgZCdFbnRyZXByaXNlcyBHcmVlbiBTaWRlIC0gNDAwLCBBdmVudWUgUm91bWFu aWxsZT0wRD0wQVNQQTAxLy87OzswPQ0KNjQxMA0KTEFCRUw7V09SSztFTkNPRElORz1RVU9URUQt UFJJTlRBQkxFOlZpbGxhZ2UgZCdFbnRyZXByaXNlcyBHcmVlbiBTaWRlIC0gNDAwLCBBdmVudWUg Um91bWFuaWxsZT0wRD0wQVNQQTAxLy89MEQ9DQo9MEEwNjQxMA0KRU1BSUw7UFJFRjtJTlRFUk5F VDpwdGh1YmVydEBjaXNjby5jb20NClJFVjoyMDAyMDkxM1QxMDQzMDhaDQpFTkQ6VkNBUkQNCg== ------_=_NextPart_001_01C3A488.F1D32500-- _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Nov 6 13:19:00 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA21337 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 13:18:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHoiR-00082m-5g for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 13:18:43 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA6IIhOw030914 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 13:18:43 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHoiQ-00082X-Ue for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 13:18:43 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA21312 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 13:18:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHoiP-0005Iw-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 13:18:41 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHoiO-0005It-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 13:18:40 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHohl-0007w3-LH; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 13:18:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHohi-0007vO-90 for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 13:17:58 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA21278; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 13:17:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHohg-0005IL-00; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 13:17:56 -0500 Received: from brmea-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.98.43]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHohf-0005II-00; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 13:17:55 -0500 Received: from jurassic.eng.sun.com ([129.146.82.37]) by brmea-mail-2.sun.com (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA6IHpPh020409; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 11:17:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from shubho (shubho.Eng.Sun.COM [129.146.85.207]) by jurassic.eng.sun.com (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with SMTP id hA6IHiI4374747; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 10:17:45 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <200311061817.hA6IHiI4374747@jurassic.eng.sun.com> Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 10:19:06 -0800 (PST) From: Samita Chakrabarti Reply-To: Samita Chakrabarti Subject: RE: [Mipshop] RE: [Mip6] Mobile IPv6 Interop Testing Draft To: jim.bound@hp.com Cc: Maeva.Petitjean@etsi.org, mip6@ietf.org, mipshop@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-MD5: zgmoQaw1hwfsZtP2qiW3JQ== X-Mailer: dtmail 1.3.0 @(#)CDE Version 1.6_31 SunOS 5.10 sun4u sparc Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , > This is fine optimization for lab or testing but don't expect production > MN's to do this or assume it in any specs std or operational. > Agreed. The draft only talks about the testing scenario. Perhaps it can be clarified further in the document to avoid any confusion. Thanks, -Samita > > -----Original Message----- > > From: mipshop-admin@ietf.org [mailto:mipshop-admin@ietf.org] > > On Behalf Of Samita Chakrabarti > > Sent: Monday, October 27, 2003 2:27 PM > > To: Maeva.Petitjean@etsi.org > > Cc: mip6@ietf.org; mipshop@ietf.org > > Subject: Re: [Mipshop] RE: [Mip6] Mobile IPv6 Interop Testing Draft > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5.3.1. Home Agent > > > > > > - Company and contact information > > > > > > - Home agent IPv6 address and the corresponding IPv4 > > addresses (if > > > dual stack) > > > > > > --> Is there more than one corresponding IPv4 address for one IPv6 > > > address ? > > > > > > > > > Actually listing IPv4 addresses are not necessary. But > > sometimes knowing the corresponding IPv4 address helps in > > finding out whether the node is dead or having trouble with > > IPv6 connection. Thus one IPv4 address on the node should be > > fine, I think. > > > > > - List of home-addresses it assigns. This list must > > also indicate > > > which home-addresses are presently used and which > > are available. > > > Example: > > > HOA1 (used by KEIO Univ.- contact name) > > > HOA2 (available) > > > HOA3 (available) > > > > > > --> Is there more than one home-address for one home agent ? > > > > > > > Yes. It depends on the administrator of the home-agent. I > > assume, usually they would allow multiple mobile-nodes for testing. > > > > > > -Samita > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Samita Chakrabarti [mailto:Samita.Chakrabarti@eng.sun.com] > > > Sent: 20 October 2003 19:54 > > > To: mip6@ietf.org; mipshop@ietf.org > > > Subject: [Mip6] Mobile IPv6 Interop Testing Draft > > > > > > > > > > > > As per Basavaraj Patil's recommendation, a mip6-interop design team > > > has been formed and the team has worked on producing the > > first draft > > > on the Mobile IPv6 remote interop testing requirements, > > scenarios and > > > procedures. > > > > > > The draft has been submitted as an individual draft for > > > now, but it is targeting to be a working group draft in > > > the next revision. It is available through T.J Kniveton's webpage > > > until the draft becomes available at the IETF directory. > > > > > > > > http://www.mipv6.org/specs/draft-kniveton-> > mipv6-remote-testing-00.txt > > > > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > The mip6-interop design team. > > > T.J Kniveton, > > > Basavaraj Patil, > > > Hesham Soliman, > > > Henrik Petander, > > > Samita Chakrabarti > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Mip6 mailing list > > > Mip6@ietf.org > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Mipshop mailing list > > > Mipshop@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mipshop > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Mipshop mailing list > > Mipshop@ietf.org > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mipshop > > > _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Nov 6 13:32:35 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA21924 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 13:32:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHovY-00008M-SM for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 13:32:16 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA6IWGAu000505 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 13:32:16 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHovY-00007q-MB for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 13:32:16 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA21890 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 13:32:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHovV-0005WW-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 13:32:13 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHovU-0005WI-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 13:32:12 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHovJ-0008Uy-Mo; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 13:32:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHouy-0008Si-1l for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 13:31:40 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA21867 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 13:31:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHouv-0005Vx-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 13:31:37 -0500 Received: from [81.199.84.81] (helo=localhst664.com) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHoud-0005V9-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 13:31:25 -0500 From: "GANI ALABI" Reply-To: ganialabi101@indiatimes.com To: mip6@ietf.org Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 10:30:27 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6900 DM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [Mip6] PARTNERSHIP REQUEST Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Union Bank Plc Nigeria I am the Manager Bill and Exchange of the Foreign Operations Department Union Bank Plc Lagos Nigeria=2E I am writing in respect of a foreign customer of my bank with account number=3A 142552004=2Fwb=2Ft who died in November 1997 in a plane crash=2E Since we got the information about his death=2C we have been expecting his next of kin to come over and claim his money because we cannot release unless somebody applies for it as the next of Kin or relation to the deceased as indicated in our banking guidelines=2E And since no one has come forward to claim the fund for years now=2C we discovered=2Frealized that that the fund =28US$12=2E8m=29 the account no=3A 142552004=2Fwb=2Ft has been abandoned=2E As the deceased is from your country it will enable us proceed the release of the money to you=2E It is therefore upon this discovery that I and two other senior officials in the department now decided to make business with you and release the money to you as the Next of Kin or relation of the deceased for safety keeping and subsequent disbursement since nobody is coming for it and we do not want this money to go back into the Federal Government Account as Unclaimed Bill=2E This is because the banking Law and Guidelines here stipulated that if such money remains unclaimed after five years the money would be transferred into the Banking Treasury as unclaimed fund=2E It is in view of this=2C I got your contact through the foreign trade mission after I was convinced in my mind that you=2Fyour name could be used as the next of kin to the deceased=2E The request of a foreigner as Next of Kin in this business is occasioned by the fact that the customer is a foreigner and a Nigeria cannot stand as a Next of Kin to a foreigner=2E I agreed that US$4=2E5M of this money=2Ffund will be for you for your involvement=2C Three Hundred Thousand Dollars will be donated to charity while the rest will be for me and my partners=2E So upon the conclusion of this transaction and your receipt of this fund=2C I and two other of my colleagues will visit your country for the disbursement=2E Therefore=2C to enable the immediate transfer=2Frelease of the fund to you as arranged=2C you must apply first to the Bank as a relation or Next of Kin of the deceased=2E Upon receipt of your reply I will send to you by fax Text of the Application and the next steps to take=2E I will also not fail to bring to your notice that this business is hitch free and that you should not entertain any fear as the whole required arrangement as been made for the transfer=2Frelease of the fund to you=2E Note=3A This transaction is confidential=2Frisks free=2E As soon as you receive this email=2C you should contact me at once through the above stated email address=2E Thanks=2C trusting to hear from you immediately=2C Yours Sincerely=2C MR GANI ALABI _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Nov 6 14:41:22 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA25249 for ; 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Thu, 06 Nov 2003 14:41:01 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHq06-0005Xb-VD; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 14:41:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHpzQ-0005Uf-V0 for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 14:40:20 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA25177 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 14:40:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHpzN-0006cz-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 14:40:17 -0500 Received: from [216.185.65.90] (helo=192.168.3.40) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHpzK-0006be-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 14:40:16 -0500 From: "Nicholas Taylor" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0034_01C221EC.6C64F7B0" Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 11:40:13 -0800 Reply-To: "Nicholas Taylor" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-Id: Subject: [Mip6] Urgent Asistance Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , ------=_NextPart_000_0034_01C221EC.6C64F7B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hello Attn sir/madam, I am Nicky Taylor, a resident in Monrovia Liberia, I urgently want to acquire properties eg, Two different houses in a very good city as soon as possible. There is a war currently going on in my country Hence i want to relocate my whole family for safety. Please contact me immediately. With best regards, Nicky Taylor nicky_2003@tiscali.co.uk ------=_NextPart_000_0034_01C221EC.6C64F7B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" E-mail message content
Hello
Attn sir/madam,
I am Nicky Taylor, a resident in Monrovia Liberia, I urgently want to acquire properties eg, Two different houses in a very good city as soon as possible. There is a war currently going on in my country Hence i want to relocate my whole family for safety.
Please contact me immediately.
 
With best regards,
Nicky Taylor
nicky_2003@tiscali.co.uk
 
 ------=_NextPart_000_0034_01C221EC.6C64F7B0-- _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Nov 6 14:42:27 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA25321 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 14:42:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHq16-0005nd-Fn for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 14:42:09 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA6Jg4X3022288 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 14:42:04 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHq15-0005mF-MW for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 14:42:03 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA25281 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 14:41:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHq12-0006fK-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 14:42:00 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHq12-0006fH-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 14:42:00 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHq14-0005hA-3B; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 14:42:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AHq0W-0005dA-Aq for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 14:41:30 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA25241; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 14:41:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHq0T-0006eg-00; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 14:41:25 -0500 Received: from zmamail03.zma.compaq.com ([161.114.64.103]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AHq0S-0006ec-00; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 14:41:24 -0500 Received: from tayexg12.americas.cpqcorp.net (tayexg12.americas.cpqcorp.net [16.103.130.103]) by zmamail03.zma.compaq.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D8FF112C1; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 14:41:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from tayexc13.americas.cpqcorp.net ([16.103.130.26]) by tayexg12.americas.cpqcorp.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Thu, 6 Nov 2003 14:41:24 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [Mipshop] RE: [Mip6] Mobile IPv6 Interop Testing Draft Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 14:41:23 -0500 Message-ID: <9C422444DE99BC46B3AD3C6EAFC9711B047CA220@tayexc13.americas.cpqcorp.net> Thread-Topic: [Mipshop] RE: [Mip6] Mobile IPv6 Interop Testing Draft Thread-Index: AcOkklO0gwBIDatIT36qaksAkrF5IgACvNkA From: "Bound, Jim" To: "Samita Chakrabarti" Cc: , , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Nov 2003 19:41:24.0450 (UTC) FILETIME=[F63CB420:01C3A49D] Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I don't think that is required I hope. But we have a lot of people banging on IPv6 issues that are good operational issues for configuration and use that are not relative to the standard for writing the code. But, is good input to implementors, and this point is very useful. We will never ship standards on time if we try to solve world hunger and dictate to implementation (which will usually be ignored). We have enough work to get the standards functions done correctly. The other thing is in my work from now on if I put little hints in specs that are not really part of the standard I am going to put clear huge text that this is not part of the standard but information for implementors and operators. Or something. thanks /jim > -----Original Message----- > From: mipshop-admin@ietf.org [mailto:mipshop-admin@ietf.org]=20 > On Behalf Of Samita Chakrabarti > Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 1:19 PM > To: Bound, Jim > Cc: Maeva.Petitjean@etsi.org; mip6@ietf.org; mipshop@ietf.org > Subject: RE: [Mipshop] RE: [Mip6] Mobile IPv6 Interop Testing Draft >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > > This is fine optimization for lab or testing but don't expect=20 > > production MN's to do this or assume it in any specs std or=20 > > operational. > >=20 >=20 > Agreed. The draft only talks about the testing scenario.=20 > Perhaps it can be clarified further in the document to avoid=20 > any confusion. >=20 > Thanks, > -Samita >=20 >=20 > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: mipshop-admin@ietf.org [mailto:mipshop-admin@ietf.org] > > > On Behalf Of Samita Chakrabarti > > > Sent: Monday, October 27, 2003 2:27 PM > > > To: Maeva.Petitjean@etsi.org > > > Cc: mip6@ietf.org; mipshop@ietf.org > > > Subject: Re: [Mipshop] RE: [Mip6] Mobile IPv6 Interop=20 > Testing Draft > > >=20 > > >=20 > > >=20 > > >=20 > > > >=20 > > > > 5.3.1. Home Agent > > > >=20 > > > > - Company and contact information > > > >=20 > > > > - Home agent IPv6 address and the corresponding IPv4 > > > addresses (if > > > > dual stack) > > > >=20 > > > > --> Is there more than one corresponding IPv4 address=20 > for one IPv6 > > > > address ? > > > >=20 > > >=20 > > >=20 > > > Actually listing IPv4 addresses are not necessary. But > > > sometimes knowing the corresponding IPv4 address helps in=20 > > > finding out whether the node is dead or having trouble with=20 > > > IPv6 connection. Thus one IPv4 address on the node should be=20 > > > fine, I think. > > > =20 > > > > - List of home-addresses it assigns. This list must > > > also indicate > > > > which home-addresses are presently used and which > > > are available. > > > > Example: > > > > HOA1 (used by KEIO Univ.- contact name) > > > > HOA2 (available) > > > > HOA3 (available) > > > >=20 > > > > --> Is there more than one home-address for one home agent ? > > > >=20 > > >=20 > > > Yes. It depends on the administrator of the home-agent. I > > > assume, usually they would allow multiple mobile-nodes=20 > for testing. > > >=20 > > >=20 > > > -Samita > > >=20 > > >=20 > > > >=20 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Samita Chakrabarti [mailto:Samita.Chakrabarti@eng.sun.com] > > > > Sent: 20 October 2003 19:54 > > > > To: mip6@ietf.org; mipshop@ietf.org > > > > Subject: [Mip6] Mobile IPv6 Interop Testing Draft > > > >=20 > > > >=20 > > > >=20 > > > > As per Basavaraj Patil's recommendation, a mip6-interop design=20 > > > > team > > > > has been formed and the team has worked on producing the=20 > > > first draft > > > > on the Mobile IPv6 remote interop testing requirements, > > > scenarios and > > > > procedures. > > > >=20 > > > > The draft has been submitted as an individual draft for=20 > now, but=20 > > > > it is targeting to be a working group draft in the next=20 > revision.=20 > > > > It is available through T.J Kniveton's webpage until the draft=20 > > > > becomes available at the IETF directory. > > > >=20 > > > >=20 > > > http://www.mipv6.org/specs/draft-kniveton-> > > mipv6-remote-testing-00.txt > > > >=20 > > > >=20 > > > > Thanks. > > > >=20 > > > > The mip6-interop design team. > > > > T.J Kniveton, > > > > Basavaraj Patil, > > > > Hesham Soliman, > > > > Henrik Petander, > > > > Samita Chakrabarti > > > >=20 > > > >=20 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Mip6 mailing list > > > > Mip6@ietf.org > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 > > > >=20 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Mipshop mailing list > > > > Mipshop@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mipshop > > > >=20 > > >=20 > > >=20 > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Mipshop mailing list > > > Mipshop@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mipshop > > >=20 > >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Mipshop mailing list > Mipshop@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mipshop >=20 _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Nov 7 05:14:23 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA08785 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 05:14:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AI3cy-0005xm-0D for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 05:14:05 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA7AE3gI022918 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 05:14:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AI3cx-0005xZ-QX for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 05:14:03 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA08772 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 05:13:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AI3cu-0002Tg-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 05:14:00 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AI3cu-0002Tc-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 05:14:00 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AI3cu-0005vs-MN; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 05:14:00 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AI3cj-0005vQ-7f for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 05:13:49 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA08761 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 05:13:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AI3cf-0002TM-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 05:13:45 -0500 Received: from mail.flarion.com ([63.103.94.23] helo=ftmail.lab.flarion.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AI3cf-0002T1-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 05:13:45 -0500 Received: by ftmail.lab.flarion.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) id ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 05:13:10 -0500 Message-ID: <748C6D0A58C0F94CA63C198B6674697A01922E9F@ftmail.lab.flarion.com> From: Soliman Hesham To: "'Pascal Thubert (pthubert)'" , Thomas Narten Cc: Vijay Devarapalli , greg.daley@eng.monash.edu.au, Basavaraj.Patil@nokia.com, mip6@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Mip6] HAHA architecture was: Agenda for MIP6 at IETF58 Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 05:12:59 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , > > 2. How to replicate the HA functions across multiple > > devices. > > > > Yes, and we propose 3 approaches with different behaviours: > proactive, reactive and predictive. > Depending on the approach, the relation between the primary > HA and the > other HAs may be more like a proxy type (as HMIP) then a replication > thing. > It may happen that the mechanism for High Availability (that we can > expect to be 'local', as you point out) is different from > the mechanism > for geo distribution of HAs, we'll have to decide that. => I'm not sure why you call them "High availability" and "geo distribution", which seems to imply that you can have one and not the other. In any case, see my comments below. Maybe we can > leave full High Availability (HA, damn) to optional existing > processes > such as HSRP or VRRP, as you mention, but gain some level of it by a > proxying process? => What's the redundancy requirement for the proxying process? > You still think "HA on links" as opposed to Home networks. We are not > configuring a same address on several interfaces, making it > anycast as > you point out. > We are making 'Home' an aggregation of Home subnets and > Mobile Networks. > And we are advertising that aggregation from several places. > But the final subnets of that aggregation are still located > in a unique > place, be they Mobile Links or Home Links (unless other > tricks are being > played as part of an other game such as site replication). => So, in this scheme, is the HA's IP address (going back to basics ;) ) known to the MN and kept the same independently of which HA is serving the MN? > > The only time I mentioned anycast is for DHAAD purposes, as > in MIP. If > several clusters advertise the same aggregation, a DHAAD > request should > get to the closest cluster. > But this may be stretching anycast a little bit? Since we > expect anycast > addresses to be built after subnets, not aggregations, do > we? Say we get > passed that issue. > > Anyway at the end of DHAAD, we should have made it so that a > MN gets a > list with HAs in teh closest cluster. So the MN would register to a > (primary) HA in a relatively close location. > > So in my mind, HAHA can be (among other things as Vijay mentioned) > either about finding who the primary HA is and tunnel (HA to > HA) to it > (: which I tend to favor :), => So you're saying that the primary and the secondary have different IP addresses, right? And when the primary falls over, does the secondary "assume" the primary's IP address and state? Otherwise this process would not be seamless to the MN. OR sharing the BCE info in all > geographies, > which links to security issues and impacts on the MN, as you > mentioned. => The security issues I mentioned are due to the use of anycast, not sharing BCEs. > One way of envisionning the first possibility is: > > - MN register to closest HA (primary HA) > - primary HA instanciates a MRHA tunnel and creates a route over that > tunnel to the MN (MNP) that is being registered > - primary HA redistributes that route to other HAs using > HAHA protocol. > This is a proactive model where HAHA looks like a classical Routing > Protocol after all. > > No binding caches, just routes. Now, we may want to distribute these > routes to remote clusters only on demand. Or we may have a > predictable > HA that centralizes the registration for a set of MN and have the > primary act as a proxy to it. Very open at this point of time :) > > If there is a real Home Network for that MN, then the primary HA must > proactively either register to one of the Home Network HA in a proxy > fashion (not exactly HMIP, though, since it is transparent > to the MN), > or sync the binding with it, in order for that HA to > intercept packets > on the Home link. But supporting the Home Link is not necessarily a > priority here (we almost removed coming Home in MIPv6, right?) => Right. But, wow! Why are we doing all this again?? I mean, do you see major advantages compared to just having the good old two routers back to back? This seems to be going back to Thomas' first question about how much complexity are we introducing and for how much gain. So far, I don't see a significant gain apart from doing the redundancy on L3. But perhaps you're thinking of other scenarios (i.e. not just the obvious MN-HA case). > Anyway the link between HAs backing up each other does not > have to be a > Home link for MIP purposes, right? => It can be a virtual link, i.e. tunnel, sure. That is, if I understood your scheme correctly. Hesham _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Nov 7 13:46:23 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA28773 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 13:46:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AIBcR-00079H-TU for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 13:46:03 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA7Ik34S027473 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 13:46:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AIBcR-000792-Ob for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 13:46:03 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA28755 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 13:45:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AIBcP-00018P-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 13:46:01 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AIBcO-00018L-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 13:46:00 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AIBcQ-00075Q-Bl; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 13:46:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AIBbj-000740-L0 for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 13:45:19 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA28680; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 13:45:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AIBbh-00015t-00; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 13:45:17 -0500 Received: from letters.cs.ucsb.edu ([128.111.41.13]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AIBbg-00015n-00; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 13:45:16 -0500 Received: from ella (ella [128.111.43.201]) by letters.cs.ucsb.edu (8.11.7+Sun/8.11.7) with ESMTP id hA7IjE221894; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 10:45:14 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 10:45:14 -0800 (PST) From: "Krishna N. Ramachandran" X-Sender: krishna@ella To: mip4@ietf.org, mip6@ietf.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [Mip6] AODV @ IETF Project Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Hi there, Mobile ad hoc networks have typically been deployed on a small scale in restricted environments. The AODV@IETF project aims to make available the first ever publicly-usable ad hoc network at the 58th IETF conference to be held in Minneapolis, MN, USA from November 9-14. The AODV network, scheduled to go live at 12:01 AM on the 10th of November, a Monday, will support Internet capable AODV implementations for the Microsoft Windows XP and Linux operating systems. Our goals behind the project are to demonstrate the capabilities of ad hoc networks to the general public and also to evaluate the performance of ad hoc networks when used on a large-scale in the real world. We welcome and encourage your participation in the ad hoc network at the IETF. Please visit the AODV@IETF website: http://moment.cs.ucsb.edu/aodv-ietf for more details. On the same website, we will very soon make available the software packages needed to join the ad hoc network. Please email me if you have any questions at krishna@cs.ucsb.edu. Thank you and looking forward to your participation, Krishna Ramachandran, UC Santa Barbara. _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Nov 7 14:03:23 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA29579 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 14:03:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AIBst-0008NJ-Jk for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 14:03:04 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA7J33ct032187 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 14:03:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AIBst-0008N4-En for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 14:03:03 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA29570 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 14:02:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AIBsr-0001Oq-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 14:03:01 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AIBsq-0001On-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 14:03:00 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AIBsr-0008L6-IP; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 14:03:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AIBsm-0008Ki-NA for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 14:02:56 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA29552 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 14:02:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AIBsk-0001OI-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 14:02:54 -0500 Received: from shaku.sfc.wide.ad.jp ([203.178.143.49]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AIBsj-0001OE-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 14:02:53 -0500 Received: from monster.sfc.wide.ad.jp.sfc.wide.ad.jp (p8bea7e.tkyoac00.ap.so-net.ne.jp [210.139.234.126]) (authenticated bits=0) by shaku.sfc.wide.ad.jp (8.12.10/8.12.0) with ESMTP id hA7J2h4u022880; Sat, 8 Nov 2003 04:02:43 +0900 Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2003 04:03:16 +0900 Message-ID: From: Ryuji Wakikawa To: petrescu@nal.motlabs.com Cc: pthubert@cisco.com, mip6@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Mip6] HAHA architecture In-Reply-To: References: User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.8.1 (Something) SEMI/1.14.3 (Ushinoya) FLIM/1.14.3 (=?ISO-8859-4?Q?Unebigory=F2mae?=) APEL/10.3 Emacs/20.7 (i386--freebsd) MULE/4.1 (AOI) Organization: Keio University MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.3 - "Ushinoya") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Hi Alex At Fri, 07 Nov 2003 19:44:14 +0100, alex wrote: > > "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" writes: > > - MN register to closest HA (primary HA) > > - primary HA instanciates a MRHA tunnel and creates a route over that > > tunnel to the MN (MNP) that is being registered > > - primary HA redistributes that route to other HAs using HAHA protocol. > > This is a proactive model where HAHA looks like a classical Routing > > Protocol after all. > > Could HAHA not only look but also act as a classical routing protocol? > Could the HA's just exchange routing information instead of BCE sync > messages? Is NEMO basic a routing protocol? We do not mention where mobile network prefix is recorded (i.e. in binding cache or routing table) in the nemo basic draft. Prefix binding may be route information. HAHA is same style as the NEMO basic support. > If yes, then maybe the AR's to which MN attaches can also participate > in this routing protocol exchanges and thus no need of Mobile IP at > all, no? Then, what's difference between MR and AR. ryuji > Alex > GBU > > > _______________________________________________ > Mip6 mailing list > Mip6@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Nov 7 14:59:21 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA04153 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 14:59:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AICl5-0004Mj-CG for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 14:59:03 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA7Jx3WJ016775 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 14:59:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AICl5-0004MU-8j for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 14:59:03 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA04139 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 14:58:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AICl2-0002A8-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 14:59:00 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AICl1-0002A5-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 14:58:59 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AICl3-0004Lz-PD; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 14:59:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AICko-0004Ll-7m for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 14:58:46 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA04128 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 14:58:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AICkl-00029t-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 14:58:43 -0500 Received: from key1.docomolabs-usa.com ([216.98.102.225] helo=fridge.docomolabs-usa.com ident=fwuser) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AICkk-00029q-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 14:58:42 -0500 Message-ID: <030d01c3a569$980a5930$9f6015ac@dclkempt40> From: "James Kempf" To: Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2003 11:59:03 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Mip6] Comments on draft-montavont-mobileip-multihoming-pb-statement-00.txt Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Though I had been looking forward to reading it, the draft was a bit disappointing to me. The bottom line seems to be "there's a problem because MIPv6 doesn't allow binding multiple CoAs to an HoA" but I didn't find any real motivation as to why that is a problem. There's a few words in the introduction about users being able to use various types of interfaces, but the connection between these very high level desirables and the fairly low level constraint imposed by the current MIPv6 design was not readily obvious to me. The reasoning also seems to be circular, as if the solution - binding multiple CoAs to an HoA - had already been decided upon. Section 1, paragraph 2 seems to provide the high level motivation. It is asserted that "users should thus be able to select the most appropriate set of inetwork interface(s) depending on the visiting network environment..." But I don't find this to be a problem with my new T40P IBM Thinkpad. It's got two interfaces, 802.11a and 802.11b, and I can set up profiles that will select one or the other depending on the SSID. Generalizing, interface selection can be handled in this manner with Mobile IP too, so it is unclear why multiple CoA binding to one HoA would help solve the problem. Secondly, it is asserted that "users should be able to select the most appropriate interface per communication type" and an example of using a different interface for UDP and TCP is cited. Most users don't know and shouldn't care whether TCP or UDP is used (for that matter, SCTP or DCCP might be the protocol) so this example doesn't sound very motivating either. Section 3 on benefits seems a good start, but I think more is needed. In particular, tying this down with a technical analysis of the problem might be useful. The taxonomy in Section 4 was only marginally useful, since I didn't find it connected to any problem statement. I didn't understand what the definition of an IPv6 Link is. It seems to mean a wireless local link connection, but this was unclear since such a connection doesn't necessarily have to use IPv6. Figure 1 and the discussion don't seem to consider the case where the mobile node has multiple interface cards that are connected through the same radio link, like having multiple 802.11b cards. Section 5 on Open Issues again seems to have a presumed assumption of a solution, namely multiple CoA bound to one HoA. It really doesn't consider the problems that such a solution could solve. There are a few considerations brought up at the end of the section about issues not related to the presumed solution, e.g. multiple HoA management, flow redirection and management, etc. Finally, there is an issue with the presumed solution in that security on MIPv6 signaling between the HA and MN is done using an IPsec SA and IPsec typically ties the SA to one address on both sides. The same issue arises with SCTP, and I believe some work is currently going on to solve it. jak _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Nov 7 15:06:21 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA04634 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 15:06:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AICrr-0004nS-5W for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 15:06:03 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA7K634l018369 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 15:06:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AICrq-0004l8-RD for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 15:06:02 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA04569 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 15:05:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AICrn-0002GV-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 15:05:59 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AICrn-0002GS-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 15:05:59 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AICrp-0004kB-PT; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 15:06:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AICqy-0004hl-Ak for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 15:05:08 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA04461 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 15:04:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AICqv-0002FZ-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 15:05:05 -0500 Received: from motgate6.mot.com ([144.189.100.106]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AICqu-0002FW-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Fri, 07 Nov 2003 15:05:04 -0500 Received: from az33exr04.mot.com (az33exr04.mot.com [10.64.251.234]) by motgate6.mot.com (Motorola/Motgate6) with ESMTP id hA7K4lm5007615; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 13:04:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from thorgal.crm.mot.com (zfr01srv02.crm.mot.com [10.161.201.8]) by az33exr04.mot.com (Motorola/az33exr04) with ESMTP id hA7Jrfkl016953; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 13:53:42 -0600 Received: from test9.crm.mot.com (test9.crm.mot.com [10.161.201.219]) by thorgal.crm.mot.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FB0E2EC95; Fri, 7 Nov 2003 20:53:40 +0100 (CET) To: Ryuji Wakikawa Cc: , Subject: Re: [Mip6] HAHA architecture From: Alexandru Petrescu Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 20:53:40 +0100 In-Reply-To: (Ryuji Wakikawa's message of "Sat, 08 Nov 2003 04:03:16 +0900") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.090017 (Oort Gnus v0.17) Emacs/21.3 (gnu/linux) References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Hi Ryuji, Ryuji Wakikawa writes: > Is NEMO basic a routing protocol? We do not mention where mobile > network prefix is recorded (i.e. in binding cache or routing table) > in the nemo basic draft. Excellent idea to discuss about this ambiguity in the NEMO WG instead (remark this ambiguity was the depart idea but then we did "forwarding information" to stand for "routing table" in some places, but "routing table" and "binding cache" still exist at places). > HAHA is same style as the NEMO basic support. Except that HAHA seems to raise other important architectural questions for which few - if at all - answers seem to have surfaced. I assume that there may be something else down the pipe coming from members, and I just sit and watch for it to happen. Namely, how will routing get updated towards the new HA (the HAHA BC syncing does not do it). Also, would an MN switching a HAHA HA be relieved from doing RO to its CN? >> If yes, then maybe the AR's to which MN attaches can also >> participate in this routing protocol exchanges and thus no need of >> Mobile IP at all, no? > > Then, what's difference between MR and AR. I would say here that MN moves and AR is fixed, no? Alex GBU _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Sat Nov 8 13:30:45 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA22922 for ; Sat, 8 Nov 2003 13:30:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AIXqs-0001Ed-1M for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sat, 08 Nov 2003 13:30:26 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA8IUQXn004741 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sat, 8 Nov 2003 13:30:26 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AIXqr-0001EO-Rt for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Sat, 08 Nov 2003 13:30:25 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA22887 for ; Sat, 8 Nov 2003 13:30:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AIXqp-0002kZ-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 08 Nov 2003 13:30:23 -0500 Received: from manatick.foretec.com ([4.17.168.5] helo=manatick) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AIXlC-0002eE-01 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 08 Nov 2003 13:24:34 -0500 Received: from [132.151.6.22] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by manatick with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1AIXXB-00023v-S0 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 08 Nov 2003 13:10:05 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AIXX8-0000RL-PJ; Sat, 08 Nov 2003 13:10:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AIXX4-0000Qj-N1 for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Sat, 08 Nov 2003 13:09:58 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA22363 for ; Sat, 8 Nov 2003 13:09:46 -0500 (EST) From: tercy.nehumm@caramail.com Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AIXX2-0002VB-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Sat, 08 Nov 2003 13:09:56 -0500 Received: from 141.red-80-38-32.pooles.rima-tde.net ([80.38.32.141] helo=equipo) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AIXX1-0002Uc-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Sat, 08 Nov 2003 13:09:56 -0500 To: mip6@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Reply-To: tercy.nehumm@caramail.com Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2003 19:09:56 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-Library: Indy 9.0.3-B X-Mailer: Foxmail Message-Id: Subject: [Mip6] Assistance please Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Goodday, I am Tercy Nuhan Vaye,the wife of late Issac Nuhan Vaye, deputy minister of public works under President charles taylor of Liberia. Before the political upheaval in liberia my late Husband was a good and close friend of president charles taylor and a member of his inner caucus.But of late when liberia crisis came up again,with the rebels trying to oust charles taylor out of government and liberia,president charles taylor became very uncomfortable with some of his loyalists which my late Husband happened to be one of them because he had the believe that at the rate at which the rebel group was closing in on him in Monrovia(which is the seat of power)was as a result of the leakage of some vital security information from his cabinet and he decided to eliminate some of his cabinet members which my father happened to be a victim. It started in the name of an uncovered coup and he ordered the arrest of some of his cabinet ministers and the Vice President Moses Blah on the 5th of june which my Husband was included and some days later we learnt about my father's death alongside with John Winpoe Yormie, deputy minister of national security. My mother and i actually knew why my Husband was murdered because before the political mayhem in > > liberia,my late father and President charles taylor > > have maintained a good relationship and he has > > assisted him in lodging funds from the sales of > > diamond in different banks and security companies > > which my late Husband also benefited from it until at > > the wake of rebellious war in liberia my Husband was > > not getting along with President Charles taylor > > because of his tyranic law which created a breach in > > their relationship and with the alarming rate at which > > the rebels are advancing into Monrovia to unseat > > President charles taylor he was no longer sure of > > some of his cabinet members and decided to eliminate > > them under the disguise that they were coup plotters > > > > Before the death of my Husband at the peak of his relationship with president charles taylor,he was able to accumulate some funds $31,600,000.00 (US$31.6million)which he deposited with a security company in Ghana from the deals he did for the president. Basically my mother and i require a trustworthy person that can assist us to retrieve our funds from the security company in Ghana.Life has been very unstable for us(my mum,my youngers ones and i) and i would not want to bore you with all we went through but for the sake of my late fathers death. All the necessary documents for the deposit are in my possession I am now a refugee in neigbouring african country Ghana due to the fear of been killed by president charles taylor and the unrest in Liberia. Ironically the president of Nigeria has agreed to grant president charles taylor assylum in Nigeria in order to restore peace in liberia so we are trying to do all we can at earnest to retrieve the funds from the security company and leave West Africa before he eventually comes to Nigeria. Upon your response to this mail,i will intimate you on how we can proceed to get the funds from the security company. Best regards, Tercy Nehumm _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Sun Nov 9 03:45:35 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA23606 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 03:45:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AIlC6-0000fD-R3 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 03:45:17 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA98jEfk002552 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 03:45:14 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AIlC6-0000f5-3c for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 03:45:14 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA23597 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 03:45:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AIlC3-0005Qm-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 03:45:11 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AIlC3-0005Qj-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 03:45:11 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AIlBt-0000eI-L9; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 03:45:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AIlAz-0000bz-GD for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 03:44:11 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA23567 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 03:43:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AIlAw-0005QQ-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 03:44:02 -0500 Received: from waga.cysol.co.jp ([210.233.3.228]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AIlAv-0005QM-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 03:44:01 -0500 Received: from aso.priv.cysol.co.jp (aso.priv.cysol.co.jp [192.168.0.15]) by waga.cysol.co.jp (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA98hocS013920; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 17:43:50 +0900 (JST) Received: from cysols.com (guest215.priv.cysol.co.jp [192.168.0.215]) by aso.priv.cysol.co.jp (8.12.9/8.12.7) with ESMTP id hA98hdrX008010; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 17:43:48 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <3FADFE22.3040304@cysols.com> Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2003 17:43:14 +0900 From: Glenn Mansfield Keeni Organization: Cyber Solutions Inc. User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Basavaraj.Patil@nokia.com CC: mip6@ietf.org, Sri Gundavelli , Ken Nagami , KOIDE Kazuhide Subject: Re: [Mip6] Agenda for MIP6 at IETF58 References: <697DAA22C5004B4596E033803A7CEF44024DBA0A@daebe007.americas.nokia.com> In-Reply-To: <697DAA22C5004B4596E033803A7CEF44024DBA0A@daebe007.americas.nokia.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, > 2. MIPv6 MIB 15 Mins Glenn Keeni > I-D: draft-ietf-mip6-mipv6-mib-00.txt If you haven't already downloaded and read the draft - the latest version of the draft is available at http://www.cysol.co.jp/contrib/draft-ietf-mip6-mipv6-mib-01.txt If you do not like reading the draft and are just keen to see what types of dials and knobs are being proposed in the MIB - a diagram showing the mipv6MIB in a hierarchical manner is available at http://www.cysol.co.jp/contrib/mipv6MIB.Tree Cheers Glenn Basavaraj.Patil@nokia.com wrote: > MIP6 (Mobility for IPv6 WG) Draft Agenda (version 2) > --------------------------------------------------- > > MONDAY, November 10, 2003 > 1530-1730 Afternoon Sessions II > > CHAIRS: Basavaraj Patil > Gopal Dommety > > Agenda: > > 1. Preliminaries 10 Mins Chairs > - Minutes > - Agenda bashing > > Document status: > Mobile IPv6 base specifications are in the RFC editors queue. IANA is > currently in the process of allocating type numbers, error codes > etc. to the I-D. > > 2. MIPv6 MIB 15 Mins Glenn Keeni > I-D: draft-ietf-mip6-mipv6-mib-00.txt > > The intent of this agenda item is to update the WG on ths current > status of the MIB work and to seek input from WG community. > > 3. MIPv6 Remote interop testing 15 Mins T.J Kniveton/Samita C. > I-D: draft-kniveton-mipv6-remote-testing-00.txt > > Interop testing of the Mobile IPv6 protocol will ensure that the specs > are unambiguous. It will also enable the discovery of problems/issues > which will then form the basis for revising various features that are > present in the base spec. This I-D proposes the creation of a MIPv6 > testbed that allows interop testing remotely. > > 4. Inter Home Agents Protocol (HAHA) 10 Mins Ryuji Wakikawa > I-D: draft-wakikawa-mip6-nemo-haha-00.txt > > Home agent reliability is a part of the MIP6 charter. This I-D > explores a possible solution. The intent is to seek WG support for > this item. > > 5. Extension to Sockets API for Mobile IPv6 15 Mins S. Chakrabarti > I-D: draft-chakrabarti-mobileip-mipext-advapi-01.txt > > This is a combined effort by the MIP6 and IPv6 WGs. The specification > will be worked in in the MIP6 WG. This agenda slot is intended to > present an update on the Sockets API for MIPv6. > > 6. Route Optimization hint option 10 Mins K. Shima > I-D: draft-shima-mip6-rohints-00.txt > > While RO is a part of the base specification, there are no real > guidelines when RO should be triggered. This agenda slot will discuss > the problem and provide some hints on when RO is optimal. > > 7. Multi-interfaced/Multi-homed MNs - Problem statement discussion > 10 Mins T. Ernst > I-D: draft-montavont-mobileip-multihoming-pb-statement-00.txt > > This agenda slot is intended to discuss the problem statement stated > in the I-D and to solicit WG input regarding how important this work > is and if MIP6 WG should deal with it. > > 8. Roadmap for WG 10 Mins Chairs and ADs > > This agenda item will discuss next steps for the WG especially in > terms of what happens between now and IETF59. > > _______________________________________________ > Mip6 mailing list > Mip6@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 > _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Sun Nov 9 11:00:23 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA02431 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 11:00:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AIryx-0000Dh-BQ for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 11:00:07 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA9G07kP000836 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 11:00:07 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AIryv-0000D7-Mm for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 11:00:05 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA02405 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 10:59:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AIryt-0002xe-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 11:00:03 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AIrys-0002xb-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 11:00:02 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AIrys-0000CN-B7; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 11:00:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AIrxu-0000BP-Sx for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 10:59:02 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA02373; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 10:58:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AIrxs-0002wt-00; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 10:59:00 -0500 Received: from motgate3.mot.com ([144.189.100.103]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AIrxr-0002wk-00; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 10:58:59 -0500 Received: from il06exr02.mot.com (il06exr02.mot.com [129.188.137.132]) by motgate3.mot.com (Motorola/Motgate3) with ESMTP id hA9Fwt4W022593; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 08:58:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from nal.motlabs.com ([163.14.20.38]) by il06exr02.mot.com (Motorola/il06exr02) with ESMTP id hA9FvKLv014415; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 09:57:24 -0600 Message-ID: <12D4C285.5000505@nal.motlabs.com> Date: Sat, 05 Jan 1980 16:15:17 +0100 From: Alexandru Petrescu User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.3a) Gecko/20021212 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: mip6@ietf.org CC: nemo@ietf.org X-Enigmail-Version: 0.72.0.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Mip6] HAHA slot at both MIP6 and NEMO? Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello to MIP6 and NEMO WG members and Chairs. The current agendas of both MIP6 and NEMO WG's feature the draft on the HA-HA protocol: mip6: > MONDAY, November 10, 2003 1530-1730 Afternoon Sessions II [...] > 4. Inter Home Agents Protocol (HAHA) 10 Mins Ryuji Wakikawa I-D: > draft-wakikawa-mip6-nemo-haha-00.txt > > Home agent reliability is a part of the MIP6 charter. This I-D > explores a possible solution. The intent is to seek WG support for > this item. nemo: > Wednesday, November 12 at 1530-1730 o Home Agent protocol > .......................................10 mins Ryuji Wakikawa > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-wakikawa-mip6-nemo-haha-00.txt The presentations take place on different days. I really find this to be redundant. The presentation slides are supposedly exactly the same, since it is a unique draft. The fact that the draft has "mip6" and "nemo" in its name can not mean that it should be dealt with by both WG's. Very much discussions about this has happened on the mip6 mailing list, and only a little on the nemo list. So maybe it should be presented at the mip6 meeting exclusively. So I suggest this draft be presented exclusively at the mip6 meeting. (It is interesting to notice also, how certain submitted drafts were refused presentation slots, while others were allocated twice.) Alex GBU _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Sun Nov 9 13:38:24 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA05850 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 13:38:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AIuRp-0006BM-Ob for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 13:38:06 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA9Ic5t7023750 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 13:38:05 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AIuRp-0006Ar-46 for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 13:38:05 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA05820 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 13:37:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AIuRm-0005Az-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 13:38:03 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AIuRm-0005Av-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 13:38:02 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AIuRk-00069o-Uu; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 13:38:00 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AIuQp-0005sm-Sg for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 13:37:04 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA05802; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 13:36:50 -0500 (EST) From: Vijay.Devarapalli@nokia.com Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AIuQn-00059v-00; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 13:37:01 -0500 Received: from mgw-x1.nokia.com ([131.228.20.21]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AIuQm-00059r-00; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 13:37:01 -0500 Received: from esvir01nok.ntc.nokia.com (esvir01nokt.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.143.33]) by mgw-x1.nokia.com (Switch-2.2.8/Switch-2.2.8) with ESMTP id hA9IaxA05953; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 20:36:59 +0200 (EET) Received: from daebh002.NOE.Nokia.com (unverified) by esvir01nok.ntc.nokia.com (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.2.5) with ESMTP id ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 20:36:59 +0200 Received: from mvebe001.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.18.140.37]) by daebh002.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6747); Sun, 9 Nov 2003 12:36:36 -0600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [Mip6] HAHA slot at both MIP6 and NEMO? Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 10:36:35 -0800 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [Mip6] HAHA slot at both MIP6 and NEMO? Thread-Index: AcOm2wJpl8p/a33gS0qrtpryl3Lh4gAFTG3w To: , Cc: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Nov 2003 18:36:36.0573 (UTC) FILETIME=[681F00D0:01C3A6F0] Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Alex, the draft is relevant to both WGs. that why it is being presented in both WGs meetings. the presentations are not going to be the same. in MIP6 WG, there will be more stuff on the problem statement.=20 Vijay > -----Original Message----- > From: mip6-admin@ietf.org [mailto:mip6-admin@ietf.org]On Behalf Of ext > Alexandru Petrescu > Sent: Saturday, January 05, 1980 7:15 AM > To: mip6@ietf.org > Cc: nemo@ietf.org > Subject: [Mip6] HAHA slot at both MIP6 and NEMO? >=20 >=20 > Hello to MIP6 and NEMO WG members and Chairs. >=20 > The current agendas of both MIP6 and NEMO WG's feature the=20 > draft on the=20 > HA-HA protocol: >=20 > mip6: > > MONDAY, November 10, 2003 1530-1730 Afternoon Sessions II > [...] > > 4. Inter Home Agents Protocol (HAHA) 10 Mins Ryuji=20 > Wakikawa I-D:=20 > > draft-wakikawa-mip6-nemo-haha-00.txt > >=20 > > Home agent reliability is a part of the MIP6 charter. This I-D=20 > > explores a possible solution. The intent is to seek WG support for=20 > > this item. >=20 > nemo: > > Wednesday, November 12 at 1530-1730 o Home Agent protocol=20 > > .......................................10 mins Ryuji Wakikawa=20 > >=20 > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-wakikawa-mip6-nemo-h aha-00.txt The presentations take place on different days. I really find this to be redundant. The presentation slides are supposedly exactly the same, since it is a unique draft. The fact that the draft has "mip6" and "nemo" in its name can not mean that it should be dealt with by both = WG's. Very much discussions about this has happened on the mip6 mailing list, and only a little on the nemo list. So maybe it should be presented at the mip6 meeting exclusively. So I suggest this draft be presented=20 exclusively at the mip6 meeting. (It is interesting to notice also, how certain submitted drafts were refused presentation slots, while others were allocated twice.) Alex GBU _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Sun Nov 9 15:10:26 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA08586 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 15:10:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AIvsw-0002R4-Kc for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 15:10:10 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA9KAARl009356 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 15:10:10 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AIvsw-0002Qp-Fj for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 15:10:10 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA08509 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 15:09:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AIvst-0006OI-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 15:10:07 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AIvst-0006OF-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 15:10:07 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AIvsn-0002P6-Vq; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 15:10:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AIvsi-0002Od-3D for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 15:09:56 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA08459; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 15:09:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AIvsS-0006Ny-00; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 15:09:40 -0500 Received: from motgate7.mot.com ([129.188.136.7]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AIvsR-0006Nv-00; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 15:09:39 -0500 Received: from il06exr04.mot.com (il06exr04.mot.com [129.188.137.134]) by motgate7.mot.com (Motorola/Motgate7) with ESMTP id hA9K8e7q013369; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 13:08:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from motorola.com ([163.14.20.64]) by il06exr04.mot.com (Motorola/il06exr04) with ESMTP id hA9K9Jui026495; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 14:09:24 -0600 Message-ID: <12D4FD44.3000708@motorola.com> Date: Sat, 05 Jan 1980 20:25:56 +0100 From: Alexandru Petrescu User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.3a) Gecko/20021212 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Vijay.Devarapalli@nokia.com CC: mip6@ietf.org, nemo@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Mip6] HAHA slot at both MIP6 and NEMO? References: In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 0.72.0.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Vijay.Devarapalli@nokia.com wrote: > the draft is relevant to both WGs. that why it is being presented in > both WGs meetings. I can't grasp the reasons of why this draft is relevant to both WG's. It is as much relevant to both WG's as every MIP6 draft is relevant to NEMO and as every NEMO draft is relevant to MIP6. Maybe thought and discussion should have been given to splitting the draft in two. Do a first simple HAHA problem with a simple mobile host solution and only then do it for NEMO. But coming up with all the stuff in one doc and forcing it down the throats of both WG's without any prior public discussion is really, errr, how to say, a bit annoying, right? > the presentations are not going to be the same. in MIP6 WG, there > will be more stuff on the problem statement. And in NEMO, what will there be? To which particular NEMO Charter issue, or to which "goal" in the goals document, does this particular draft pertain? I find none. To which public discussion in NEMO WG (prior to announcement) does the HAHA draft offer a solution? I remember of none. Alex GBU _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Sun Nov 9 16:21:20 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA10727 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 16:21:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AIwzX-0005cX-0v for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 16:21:03 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA9LL2Zq021599 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 16:21:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AIwzW-0005c9-Qy for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 16:21:02 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA10689 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 16:20:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AIwzU-0007GV-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 16:21:01 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AIwzU-0007GS-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 16:21:00 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AIwzV-0005ZV-1g; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 16:21:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AIwyj-0005Yz-4e for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 16:20:13 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA10683; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 16:19:59 -0500 (EST) From: Vijay.Devarapalli@nokia.com Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AIwyh-0007GK-00; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 16:20:11 -0500 Received: from mgw-x1.nokia.com ([131.228.20.21]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AIwyg-0007GH-00; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 16:20:10 -0500 Received: from esvir01nok.ntc.nokia.com (esvir01nokt.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.143.33]) by mgw-x1.nokia.com (Switch-2.2.8/Switch-2.2.8) with ESMTP id hA9LKAA06817; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 23:20:10 +0200 (EET) Received: from daebh001.NOE.Nokia.com (unverified) by esvir01nok.ntc.nokia.com (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.2.5) with ESMTP id ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 23:20:10 +0200 Received: from mvebe001.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.18.140.37]) by daebh001.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6747); Sun, 9 Nov 2003 13:20:07 -0800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [Mip6] HAHA slot at both MIP6 and NEMO? Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 13:20:07 -0800 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [Mip6] HAHA slot at both MIP6 and NEMO? Thread-Index: AcOm/Wr0COuF1aJOSLCV98O7Fnux2gACW2Fg To: Cc: , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Nov 2003 21:20:08.0149 (UTC) FILETIME=[4046B050:01C3A707] Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > Maybe thought and discussion should have been given to splitting the > draft in two. Do a first simple HAHA problem with a simple=20 > mobile host > solution and only then do it for NEMO. But coming up with=20 > all the stuff > in one doc and forcing it down the throats of both WG's without any > prior public discussion is really, errr, how to say, a bit annoying, > right? huh?? it is an individual submission. the authors are free to put what they want in the spec.=20 a WG draft is different. the WG decides what goes into it. Vijay _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Sun Nov 9 16:30:21 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA11183 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 16:30:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AIx8G-0006m4-4d for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 16:30:04 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA9LU3hS026028 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 16:30:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AIx8F-0006kf-Bu for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 16:30:03 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA11132 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 16:29:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AIx8D-0007Pv-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 16:30:01 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AIx8D-0007Ps-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 16:30:01 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AIx8D-0006jy-UC; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 16:30:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AIx7K-0006WE-LR for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 16:29:06 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA11066 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 16:28:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AIx7I-0007Nr-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 16:29:04 -0500 Received: from p2.piuha.net ([131.160.192.2]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AIx7H-0007NC-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 16:29:04 -0500 Received: from piuha.net (p4.piuha.net [131.160.192.4]) by p2.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0EBAC6A905; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 23:28:52 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <3FAE8CDC.10804@kolumbus.fi> Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2003 20:52:12 +0200 From: Jari Arkko User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20030225 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: mip6@ietf.org Cc: Basavaraj Patil Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Mip6] MIPv6 and IANA actions -- Status codes Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, We are currently setting up the IANA registry for Mobile IPv6 reserved numbers with IANA. While doing this, we noticed that the current IANA Considerations section does not say anything about Status codes. Our thinking is that these values too need to be registered at IANA in the same manner as MH type codes and options. If you think this is acceptable, I'd like to insert the following text to the draft (perhaps in AUTH48): Finally, this document creates a third new name space "Status Code" for the Status field in the Binding Acknowledgement message. The current values are described in Section 6.1.8, and are the following: 0 Binding Update accepted 1 Accepted but prefix discovery necessary 128 Reason unspecified 129 Administratively prohibited 130 Insufficient resources 131 Home registration not supported 132 Not home subnet 133 Not home agent for this mobile node 134 Duplicate Address Detection failed 135 Sequence number out of window 136 Expired home nonce index 137 Expired care-of nonce index 138 Expired nonces 139 Registration type change disallowed Future values of the Status field can be allocated using standards action [10]. --Jari _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Sun Nov 9 16:43:20 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA11552 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 16:43:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AIxKq-0007eK-6e for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 16:43:04 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA9Lh4LG029398 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 16:43:04 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AIxKo-0007cm-Ia for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 16:43:04 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA11512 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 16:42:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AIxKm-0007bl-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 16:43:00 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AIxKm-0007bi-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 16:43:00 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AIxKn-0007bs-Gh; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 16:43:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AIxK6-0007bB-GK for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 16:42:18 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA11508; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 16:42:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AIxK4-0007bf-00; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 16:42:16 -0500 Received: from darkstar.iprg.nokia.com ([205.226.5.69]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AIxK3-0007bc-00; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 16:42:15 -0500 Received: (from root@localhost) by darkstar.iprg.nokia.com (8.11.0/8.11.0-DARKSTAR) id hA9Lfg721650; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 13:41:42 -0800 X-mProtect: <200311092141> Nokia Silicon Valley Messaging Protection Received: from danira-pool054120.americas.nokia.com (10.241.54.120, claiming to be "iprg.nokia.com") by darkstar.iprg.nokia.com smtpdRsZDQ9; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 13:41:40 PST Message-ID: <3FAEB489.7060305@iprg.nokia.com> Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2003 13:41:29 -0800 From: Vijay Devarapalli User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jari Arkko CC: mip6@ietf.org, Basavaraj Patil , nemo@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Mip6] MIPv6 and IANA actions -- Status codes References: <3FAE8CDC.10804@kolumbus.fi> In-Reply-To: <3FAE8CDC.10804@kolumbus.fi> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I agree IANA action is required. the Nemo basic protocol draft-ietf-nemo-basic-support-01.txt defines new binding ack status values. this was discussed in the Nemo WG and we werent sure what to do because Mobile IPv6 spec did not require IANA action. the text you propose looks fine. Vijay Jari Arkko wrote: > > Hi, > > We are currently setting up the IANA registry for Mobile > IPv6 reserved numbers with IANA. While doing this, we > noticed that the current IANA Considerations section > does not say anything about Status codes. Our thinking > is that these values too need to be registered at IANA > in the same manner as MH type codes and options. > > If you think this is acceptable, I'd like to insert > the following text to the draft (perhaps in AUTH48): > > Finally, this document creates a third new name space "Status > Code" for the Status field in the Binding Acknowledgement > message. The current values are described in Section 6.1.8, and > are the following: > > 0 Binding Update accepted > > 1 Accepted but prefix discovery necessary > > 128 Reason unspecified > > 129 Administratively prohibited > > 130 Insufficient resources > > 131 Home registration not supported > > 132 Not home subnet > > 133 Not home agent for this mobile node > > 134 Duplicate Address Detection failed > > 135 Sequence number out of window > > 136 Expired home nonce index > > 137 Expired care-of nonce index > > 138 Expired nonces > > 139 Registration type change disallowed > > Future values of the Status field can be allocated using standards > action [10]. > > --Jari > > > > _______________________________________________ > Mip6 mailing list > Mip6@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Sun Nov 9 17:41:20 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA14090 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 17:41:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AIyEx-0003CV-Ly for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 17:41:04 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA9Mf3xe012297 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 17:41:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AIyEx-0003CB-G2 for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 17:41:03 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA13911 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 17:40:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AIyEu-0000qj-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 17:41:00 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AIyEu-0000qf-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 17:41:00 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AIyEv-0003BY-Vh; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 17:41:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AIyDz-00038u-SV for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 17:40:03 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA13658; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 17:39:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AIyDv-0000oF-00; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 17:39:59 -0500 Received: from motgate.mot.com ([129.188.136.100]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AIyDu-0000o7-00; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 17:39:59 -0500 Received: from az33exr03.mot.com (pobox3.mot.com [10.64.251.242]) by motgate.mot.com (Motorola/Motgate) with ESMTP id hA9MdvHc010582; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 15:39:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from nal.motlabs.com ([163.14.20.55]) by az33exr03.mot.com (Motorola/az33exr03) with ESMTP id hA9MdhBJ024456; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 16:39:48 -0600 Message-ID: <3FAEC22C.7060700@nal.motlabs.com> Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2003 23:39:40 +0100 From: Alexandru Petrescu User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.3a) Gecko/20021212 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Vijay.Devarapalli@nokia.com CC: mip6@ietf.org, nemo@ietf.org References: In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 0.72.0.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Mip6] Re: ok (was: HAHA slot at both MIP6 and NEMO?) Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Vijay.Devarapalli@nokia.com wrote: >> Maybe thought and discussion should have been given to splitting >> the draft in two. Do a first simple HAHA problem with a simple >> mobile host solution and only then do it for NEMO. But coming up >> with all the stuff in one doc and forcing it down the throats of >> both WG's without any prior public discussion is really, errr, how >> to say, a bit annoying, right? > > huh?? it is an individual submission. the authors are free to put > what they want in the spec. Vijay, I suppose you got my point. This is about many other individual submissions being rejected slots (or imposed very tight time constraints) on grounds of non-relation to Charters, while this particularly negatively reviewed individual submission generously got 2 slots. This can be so only because of its apparent appeal of a nice technique promissing many things to many problems, and its apparent novelty. There is text in the draft that relates it to MIP6 for hosts, to NEMO MR's, might look as a solution for HA reliability, might look as help for RO too. Maybe presenting it to MIPSHOP would be a good idea too, they also deal with an HA closer to MN (the MAP). > a WG draft is different. the WG decides what goes into it. Absolutely, and it would have been even better if one of that WG's member oppinion were taken into account when preparing the NEMO agenda (the only oppinion apart an author's oppinion). This reads: the draft HAHA was published, member reacted negatively, author positively, and so the draft popped up in the agenda :-) But, finally, I think this goes above my humble comprehension of facts, so I'll sit, watch and see. So I'm eager to see the slides and the minutes. Alex GBU _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Sun Nov 9 17:55:20 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA16158 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 17:55:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AIySW-00052E-Eo for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 17:55:04 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA9Mt4CR019348 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 17:55:04 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AIySW-00051z-A8 for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 17:55:04 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA16100 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 17:54:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AIyST-0001OK-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 17:55:01 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AIyST-0001OH-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 17:55:01 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AIySV-000516-2S; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 17:55:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AIyRy-00050Y-Jh for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 17:54:30 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA16022; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 17:54:15 -0500 (EST) From: Vijay.Devarapalli@nokia.com Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AIyRv-0001N8-00; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 17:54:27 -0500 Received: from mgw-x4.nokia.com ([131.228.20.27]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AIyRu-0001Mq-00; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 17:54:27 -0500 Received: from esvir03nok.nokia.com (esvir03nokt.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.143.35]) by mgw-x4.nokia.com (Switch-2.2.8/Switch-2.2.8) with ESMTP id hA9MsFe23024; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 00:54:15 +0200 (EET) Received: from daebh002.NOE.Nokia.com (unverified) by esvir03nok.nokia.com (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.2.5) with ESMTP id ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 00:54:15 +0200 Received: from mvebe001.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.18.140.37]) by daebh002.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6747); Sun, 9 Nov 2003 16:54:13 -0600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 14:54:12 -0800 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: ok (was: HAHA slot at both MIP6 and NEMO?) Thread-Index: AcOnEmwAijO0LYkCTWK3T2fYoMCKogAAOEmg To: Cc: , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Nov 2003 22:54:13.0600 (UTC) FILETIME=[653A2600:01C3A714] Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [Mip6] RE: ok (was: HAHA slot at both MIP6 and NEMO?) Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > huh?? it is an individual submission. the authors are free to put=20 > > what they want in the spec. >=20 > Vijay, I suppose you got my point. not yet. >=20 > This is about many other individual submissions being=20 > rejected slots (or > imposed very tight time constraints) on grounds of non-relation to > Charters, while this particularly negatively reviewed individual > submission generously got 2 slots. having a draft out does not guarantee a slot at the WG meeting. WG meeting time is used mainly for resolving issues, not=20 presenting one's solution or one's draft. > > a WG draft is different. the WG decides what goes into it. >=20 > Absolutely, and it would have been even better if one of that WG's > member oppinion were taken into account when preparing the NEMO agenda > (the only oppinion apart an author's oppinion). This reads: the draft > HAHA was published, member reacted negatively, author positively, and > so the draft popped up in the agenda :-) its the WG chairs who decide the agenda after getting feedback from everyone. and Agenda Bashing is part of the agenda. :) the agenda can=20 still be changed. Vijay _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Sun Nov 9 18:59:19 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA19388 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 18:59:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AIzSR-0008UM-6l for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 18:59:04 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hA9Nx33N032624 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 18:59:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AIzSR-0008U7-2n for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 18:59:03 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA19381 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 18:58:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AIzSN-0002Lc-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 18:58:59 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AIzSN-0002LZ-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 18:58:59 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AIzSO-0008TZ-SF; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 18:59:00 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AIzRS-0008T2-Hz for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 18:58:02 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA19368 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 18:57:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AIzRP-0002LA-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 18:57:59 -0500 Received: from [192.103.16.205] (helo=multihop.net) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AIzRO-0002L1-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 18:57:58 -0500 Received: from kniveton.com (L5130747.NOE.Nokia.com [130.129.132.242] (may be forged)) by multihop.net (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hA9Nw9qT024735; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 15:58:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tj@kniveton.com) Message-ID: <3FAEF086.1050708@kniveton.com> Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2003 17:57:26 -0800 From: "T.J. Kniveton" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jari Arkko CC: mip6@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Mip6] MIPv6 and IANA actions -- Status codes References: <3FAE8CDC.10804@kolumbus.fi> In-Reply-To: <3FAE8CDC.10804@kolumbus.fi> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I agree also with Jari A. and Vijay that it would be preferable to allow IANA to manage the result code address space. As Vijay mentioned, we are extending these codes, and will probably end up putting those values in the IANA considerations section of draft-nemo-basic-support as well. Your text looks fine to me. TJ Jari Arkko wrote: > > Hi, > > We are currently setting up the IANA registry for Mobile > IPv6 reserved numbers with IANA. While doing this, we > noticed that the current IANA Considerations section > does not say anything about Status codes. Our thinking > is that these values too need to be registered at IANA > in the same manner as MH type codes and options. > > If you think this is acceptable, I'd like to insert > the following text to the draft (perhaps in AUTH48): > > Finally, this document creates a third new name space "Status > Code" for the Status field in the Binding Acknowledgement > message. The current values are described in Section 6.1.8, and > are the following: > > 0 Binding Update accepted > > 1 Accepted but prefix discovery necessary > > 128 Reason unspecified > > 129 Administratively prohibited > > 130 Insufficient resources > > 131 Home registration not supported > > 132 Not home subnet > > 133 Not home agent for this mobile node > > 134 Duplicate Address Detection failed > > 135 Sequence number out of window > > 136 Expired home nonce index > > 137 Expired care-of nonce index > > 138 Expired nonces > > 139 Registration type change disallowed > > Future values of the Status field can be allocated using standards > action [10]. > > --Jari > > > > _______________________________________________ > Mip6 mailing list > Mip6@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Sun Nov 9 19:00:21 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA19458 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 19:00:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AIzTS-00009d-Hd for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 19:00:06 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAA006GO000587 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 19:00:06 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AIzTQ-00009I-Dq for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 19:00:04 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA19410 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 18:59:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AIzTN-0002MA-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 19:00:01 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AIzTM-0002M5-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 19:00:00 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AIzTO-00006Z-Rs; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 19:00:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AIzSa-0008Vb-RN for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 18:59:12 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA19385 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 18:58:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AIzSX-0002Lm-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 18:59:09 -0500 Received: from p2.piuha.net ([131.160.192.2]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AIzSX-0002Lj-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 18:59:09 -0500 Received: from piuha.net (p4.piuha.net [131.160.192.4]) by p2.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EBCD6A905; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 01:59:08 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <3FAED3CB.7090605@piuha.net> Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 01:54:51 +0200 From: Jari Arkko Reply-To: jari.arkko@piuha.net Organization: None User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20030225 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: mip6@ietf.org Cc: Basavaraj Patil References: <3FAE8CDC.10804@kolumbus.fi> <3FAEB489.7060305@iprg.nokia.com> In-Reply-To: <3FAEB489.7060305@iprg.nokia.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Mip6] MIPv6 and IANA actions -- DOs for BU/BA/BR Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here's another question that came up during setting up the IANA registries: The IPv6 registry lists four destination options for Mobile IPv6, the HAO which is used in the current document and BU/BA/BR which are no longer used. What should we do with these options? They are not a part of the draft, so clearly some change in the IPv6 registry will be made. But should we (a) Just remove the three old values, immediately (b) Mark the three old values as temporarily reserved for now, and remove then a couple of years later (c) Keep the values for ever but mark them historic? I'm thinking that option a is the right way to go, unless someone has an issue with it (say due to an old implementation). Comments? See http://www.iana.org/assignments/ipv6-parameters --Jari _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Sun Nov 9 19:06:17 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA19571 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 19:06:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AIzZD-0000FB-1h for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 19:06:03 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAA062MF000926 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 19:06:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AIzZC-0000Eq-P0 for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 19:06:02 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA19547 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 19:05:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AIzZ9-0002Ub-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 19:05:59 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AIzZ8-0002UX-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 19:05:58 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AIzZB-0000EE-Gd; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 19:06:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AIzYr-0000Df-P7 for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 19:05:41 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA19540 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 19:05:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AIzYo-0002UQ-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 19:05:38 -0500 Received: from [192.103.16.205] (helo=multihop.net) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AIzYn-0002UA-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 19:05:37 -0500 Received: from kniveton.com (L5130747.NOE.Nokia.com [130.129.132.242] (may be forged)) by multihop.net (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAA056qT024768; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 16:05:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tj@kniveton.com) Message-ID: <3FAEF227.4060405@kniveton.com> Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2003 18:04:23 -0800 From: "T.J. Kniveton" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: jari.arkko@piuha.net CC: mip6@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Mip6] MIPv6 and IANA actions -- DOs for BU/BA/BR References: <3FAE8CDC.10804@kolumbus.fi> <3FAEB489.7060305@iprg.nokia.com> <3FAED3CB.7090605@piuha.net> In-Reply-To: <3FAED3CB.7090605@piuha.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jari Arkko wrote: > [...] > What should we do with these options? They are not > a part of the draft, so clearly some change in the > IPv6 registry will be made. But should we > > (a) Just remove the three old values, immediately > (b) Mark the three old values as temporarily reserved > for now, and remove then a couple of years later > (c) Keep the values for ever but mark them historic? I vote for (a). Implementations of old versions of the draft are just that, and the current version does not require reservations in the IANA registry for those options. There is no compelling need for the reservation that I can see, unless someone else can point one out. TJ _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Sun Nov 9 19:41:23 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA20174 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 19:41:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJ076-0002Cg-Ma for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 19:41:05 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAA0f47b008464 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 19:41:04 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJ076-0002CR-GV for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 19:41:04 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA20148 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 19:40:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJ074-0002wO-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 19:41:02 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJ074-0002wL-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 19:41:02 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJ075-0002Bx-1O; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 19:41:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJ06j-0002BB-17 for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 19:40:41 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA20145 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 19:40:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJ06h-0002wG-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 19:40:39 -0500 Received: from mail.flarion.com ([63.103.94.23] helo=ftmail.lab.flarion.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJ06g-0002w3-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 19:40:38 -0500 Received: by ftmail.lab.flarion.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) id ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 19:40:06 -0500 Message-ID: <748C6D0A58C0F94CA63C198B6674697A01922EAD@ftmail.lab.flarion.com> From: Soliman Hesham To: "'jari.arkko@piuha.net'" , mip6@ietf.org Cc: Basavaraj Patil Subject: RE: [Mip6] MIPv6 and IANA actions -- DOs for BU/BA/BR Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 19:40:03 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , > Here's another question that came up during setting up the > IANA registries: > > The IPv6 registry lists four destination options > for Mobile IPv6, the HAO which is used in the current > document and BU/BA/BR which are no longer used. > > What should we do with these options? They are not > a part of the draft, so clearly some change in the > IPv6 registry will be made. But should we > > (a) Just remove the three old values, immediately => This one! It doesn't make sense to keep the values. We know that they shouldn't be used and we don't have backward compatibility issues. Hesham _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Sun Nov 9 20:55:23 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA21928 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 20:55:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJ1Gj-0005en-5O for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 20:55:06 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAA1t5Dn021742 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 20:55:05 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJ1Gj-0005eb-06 for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 20:55:05 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA21925 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 20:54:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJ1Gg-00041R-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 20:55:02 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJ1Gg-00041O-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 20:55:02 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJ1Gg-0005dy-3D; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 20:55:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJ1G7-0005dD-Dz for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 20:54:27 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA21919 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 20:54:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJ1G4-00041A-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 20:54:25 -0500 Received: from shonan.sfc.wide.ad.jp ([203.178.142.130]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJ1G4-00040s-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 20:54:24 -0500 Received: from huez (dyn131-176.ietf58.ietf.org [130.129.131.176]) by shonan.sfc.wide.ad.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB00A5D160; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 10:53:51 +0900 (JST) Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 23:41:35 +0900 From: Thierry Ernst To: "Koojana Kuladinithi" Cc: mip6@ietf.org, Nicolas Montavont , Ryuji Wakikawa Subject: Re: AW: [Mip6] Multihomed Mobile Nodes Message-Id: <20031109234135.33627f15.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> In-Reply-To: <003101c3a2d9$2b81b6b0$989b6686@scoobydoo> References: <20031104165033.7fcf856b.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <003101c3a2d9$2b81b6b0$989b6686@scoobydoo> Organization: Keio University X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.8.10 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i586-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Koojana, Thanks for the reading and the question. So far, we missed to answer the question, so here is my answer. On Tue, 4 Nov 2003 14:40:11 +0100 "Koojana Kuladinithi" wrote: > Pl, find following comments on the > draft-montavont-mobileip-multihoming-pb-statement-00.txt, > > For case, (1,n,n) or (n,n,n), there can be two cases, > > 1. As you defined in section 4.3 or > 2. None of interfaces are at home network > Can you describe a case 2 as well(May be as a separate section)? > Is there anyway to indicate case 2 according to your classification? As said in section 4.2 case 4. "Several HoAs, several CoAs, several interfaces (n,n,n)", we only listed one example. So, if the MNs has several interfaces, each one is associated to a distinct home agent (i.e. several HoAs) and each one connected to a disctinct visited link (i.e. distinct CoAs) you end up in case (n,n,n). Do you think it's important to describe this particular case in the document ? Will this example bring something to the reader ? > I guess (0,n,n) won't make sense since it indicates that there is no home > address allocated ? Well, this is a "homeless multihomed MN", but still true that the MN is multihomed. The remark is interesting. Since the intend of this document is not only to point out MIPv6 deficiencies, but general deficiencies in supporting multihomed mobile nodes, this case may deserve interest. Is this a case that you are personally considering ? Cherrs, Thierry _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Sun Nov 9 21:52:29 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA22803 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 21:52:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJ29q-0007qt-OI for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 21:52:12 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAA2q2sQ030176 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 21:52:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJ29q-0007qd-IU for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 21:52:02 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA22793 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 21:51:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJ29n-0004fI-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; 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Sun, 09 Nov 2003 20:47:25 -0600 Message-ID: <002101c3a735$71690880$ed468182@LocalHost> From: "Youn-Hee Han" To: , Cc: "Basavaraj Patil" References: <3FAE8CDC.10804@kolumbus.fi> <3FAEB489.7060305@iprg.nokia.com> <3FAED3CB.7090605@piuha.net> Subject: Re: [Mip6] MIPv6 and IANA actions -- DOs for BU/BA/BR Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 11:50:41 +0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 PiBIZXJlJ3MgYW5vdGhlciBxdWVzdGlvbiB0aGF0IGNhbWUgdXAgZHVyaW5nIHNldHRpbmcgdXAg dGhlDQo+IElBTkEgcmVnaXN0cmllczoNCj4gDQo+IFRoZSBJUHY2IHJlZ2lzdHJ5IGxpc3RzIGZv dXIgZGVzdGluYXRpb24gb3B0aW9ucw0KPiBmb3IgTW9iaWxlIElQdjYsIHRoZSBIQU8gd2hpY2gg aXMgdXNlZCBpbiB0aGUgY3VycmVudA0KPiBkb2N1bWVudCBhbmQgQlUvQkEvQlIgd2hpY2ggYXJl IG5vIGxvbmdlciB1c2VkLg0KPiANCj4gV2hhdCBzaG91bGQgd2UgZG8gd2l0aCB0aGVzZSBvcHRp b25zPyBUaGV5IGFyZSBub3QNCj4gYSBwYXJ0IG9mIHRoZSBkcmFmdCwgc28gY2xlYXJseSBzb21l IGNoYW5nZSBpbiB0aGUNCj4gSVB2NiByZWdpc3RyeSB3aWxsIGJlIG1hZGUuIEJ1dCBzaG91bGQg d2UNCj4gDQo+ICAgIChhKSBKdXN0IHJlbW92ZSB0aGUgdGhyZWUgb2xkIHZhbHVlcywgaW1tZWRp YXRlbHkNCg0KSSBhbHNvIHZvdGUgdGhpcyAoYSkhDQoNCg0KWW91bi1IZWUg _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Sun Nov 9 23:51:22 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA25289 for ; 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Sun, 09 Nov 2003 23:51:02 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJ410-0004WW-S0; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 23:51:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJ40A-0004W1-Tl for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 23:50:11 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA25267 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 23:49:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJ408-0006BK-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 23:50:08 -0500 Received: from nwkea-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.42.13]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJ407-0006B3-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Sun, 09 Nov 2003 23:50:08 -0500 Received: from jurassic.eng.sun.com ([129.146.84.31]) by nwkea-mail-1.sun.com (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAA4nbUP019263; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 20:49:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from eng.sun.com (vpn-129-147-152-147.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.152.147]) by jurassic.eng.sun.com (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAA4nYH3695534; Sun, 9 Nov 2003 20:49:35 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3FAF1678.29CD2041@eng.sun.com> Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2003 20:39:20 -0800 From: Samita Chakrabarti X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: jari.arkko@piuha.net CC: mip6@ietf.org, Basavaraj Patil Subject: Re: [Mip6] MIPv6 and IANA actions -- DOs for BU/BA/BR References: <3FAE8CDC.10804@kolumbus.fi> <3FAEB489.7060305@iprg.nokia.com> <3FAED3CB.7090605@piuha.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > What should we do with these options? They are not > a part of the draft, so clearly some change in the > IPv6 registry will be made. But should we > > (a) Just remove the three old values, immediately > (b) Mark the three old values as temporarily reserved > for now, and remove then a couple of years later > (c) Keep the values for ever but mark them historic? > > I'm thinking that option a is the right way to go, unless > someone has an issue with it (say due to an old implementation). > > Comments? > > See http://www.iana.org/assignments/ipv6-parameters Since BU/BR/BA are no longer in the specification ( MIPv6 base draft), it makes sense to remove them - anyway old implementations would have to update in order to interoperate. Thus (a) seems to be the appropriate choice. -Samita > > _______________________________________________ > Mip6 mailing list > Mip6@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 10 02:28:29 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA11450 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 02:28:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJ6T5-0005Ud-NP for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 02:28:12 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAA7SBXO021109 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 02:28:11 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJ6T4-0005UK-KX for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 02:28:10 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA11441 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 02:27:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJ6Sz-0000PI-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 02:28:05 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJ6Sy-0000PF-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 02:28:04 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJ6Sy-0005Th-0E; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 02:28:04 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJ6S6-0005SI-Or for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 02:27:10 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA11424 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 02:26:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJ6S3-0000Ok-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 02:27:07 -0500 Received: from mail.flarion.com ([63.103.94.23] helo=ftmail.lab.flarion.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJ6S2-0000OT-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 02:27:06 -0500 Received: by ftmail.lab.flarion.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) id ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 02:26:33 -0500 Message-ID: <748C6D0A58C0F94CA63C198B6674697A01922EB1@ftmail.lab.flarion.com> From: Soliman Hesham To: mip6@ietf.org Cc: "'Thomas Narten'" Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 02:26:29 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: [Mip6] confusing statement in draft-24? Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Hi, I don't know if it's too late... Just bumped into this statement in section 11.5.3: The mobile node MUST ensure that its primary care-of address always has a prefix that is considered on-link by its current default router, i.e., advertised by its current default router in a solicited Router Advertisement I don't understand why we need this restriction. The interpretation of the above would mean that the L flag in the prefix option must be set. There is no reason for this IMO. I think the intention was to say that the prefix is included in the RA, period. But the text above is misleading because of its use of the term 'on-link'. Another comment: I thought we'd agreed that RFC 3041 will be used to generate CoAs to avoid the problem with disabling the interface when DAD fails. But the text in 11.5.2 only refers to 2462, did I miss a discussion where this was changed ? Hesham _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 10 12:55:24 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA03152 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 12:55:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJGFl-0005Sw-F0 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 12:55:05 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAAHt5Y4021009 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 12:55:05 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJGFl-0005Sm-9M for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 12:55:05 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA03131 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 12:54:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJGFj-0001IA-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 12:55:03 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJGFj-0001I7-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 12:55:03 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJGFj-0005SH-Bg; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 12:55:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJGFU-0005QL-E4 for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 12:54:48 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA03116 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 12:54:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJGFS-0001Hy-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 12:54:46 -0500 Received: from smtp802.mail.sc5.yahoo.com ([66.163.168.181]) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJGFR-0001Hq-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 12:54:45 -0500 Received: from adsl-64-170-248-130.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net (HELO eremmell) (elmic@sbcglobal.net@64.170.248.130 with login) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Nov 2003 17:54:40 -0000 From: "Ed Remmell" To: "'Soliman Hesham'" , Cc: "'Thomas Narten'" Subject: RE: [Mip6] confusing statement in draft-24? Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 09:54:42 -0800 Message-ID: <005d01c3a7b3$b8337330$0900a8c0@eremmell> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <748C6D0A58C0F94CA63C198B6674697A01922EB1@ftmail.lab.flarion.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hesham - This was added to prohibit a sloppy implementation of MIPv6 MN that keeps around old prefix information (as well as perhaps Neighbor Cache and Redirect routing entries for the old link) in its routing tree even after movement to a new link/subnet. When the MN moves from the old link, all of the prefix information, etc. that was discovered on the old link must be invalidated since the MN is no longer attached to that link. How about reword to: "The mobile node MUST ensure that its primary care-of address always has a prefix that is advertised by its current default router in a solicited Router Advertisement." Thanks. - Ed > -----Original Message----- > From: mip6-admin@ietf.org [mailto:mip6-admin@ietf.org] On > Behalf Of Soliman Hesham > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2003 11:26 PM > To: mip6@ietf.org > Cc: 'Thomas Narten' > Subject: [Mip6] confusing statement in draft-24? > > > Hi, > > I don't know if it's too late... > > Just bumped into this statement in section 11.5.3: > > The > mobile node MUST ensure that its primary care-of address > always has a > prefix that is considered on-link by its current default router, > i.e., advertised by its current default router in a > solicited Router > Advertisement > > I don't understand why we need this restriction. The > interpretation of the above would mean that the L flag in the > prefix option must be set. There is no reason for this IMO. > > I think the intention was to say that the prefix is included > in the RA, period. But the text above is misleading because > of its use of the term 'on-link'. > > Another comment: > > I thought we'd agreed that RFC 3041 will be used to generate > CoAs to avoid the problem with disabling the interface when > DAD fails. But the text in 11.5.2 only refers to > 2462, did I miss a discussion where this was changed ? > > Hesham > > _______________________________________________ > Mip6 mailing list > Mip6@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 > > --- > Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.522 / Virus Database: 320 - Release Date: 9/29/2003 > > --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.522 / Virus Database: 320 - Release Date: 9/29/2003 _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 10 12:58:18 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA03224 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 12:58:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJGIc-0005c0-HC for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 12:58:02 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAAHw2hF021566 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 12:58:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJGIc-0005bk-8c for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 12:58:02 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA03218 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 12:57:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJGIa-0001Jl-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 12:58:00 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJGIa-0001Jg-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 12:58:00 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJGIb-0005a9-5Q; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 12:58:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJGI2-0005ZP-V7 for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 12:57:26 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA03204 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 12:57:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJGI1-0001JE-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 12:57:25 -0500 Received: from smtp800.mail.sc5.yahoo.com ([66.163.168.179]) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJGI0-0001JB-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 12:57:24 -0500 Received: from adsl-64-170-248-130.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net (HELO eremmell) (elmic@sbcglobal.net@64.170.248.130 with login) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Nov 2003 17:57:23 -0000 From: "Ed Remmell" To: , Cc: "'Basavaraj Patil'" Subject: RE: [Mip6] MIPv6 and IANA actions -- DOs for BU/BA/BR Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 09:57:25 -0800 Message-ID: <006201c3a7b4$19744cf0$0900a8c0@eremmell> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <3FAED3CB.7090605@piuha.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My vote is also for (a). Thanks. - Ed > -----Original Message----- > From: mip6-admin@ietf.org [mailto:mip6-admin@ietf.org] On > Behalf Of Jari Arkko > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2003 3:55 PM > To: mip6@ietf.org > Cc: Basavaraj Patil > Subject: [Mip6] MIPv6 and IANA actions -- DOs for BU/BA/BR > > > Here's another question that came up during setting up the > IANA registries: > > The IPv6 registry lists four destination options > for Mobile IPv6, the HAO which is used in the current > document and BU/BA/BR which are no longer used. > > What should we do with these options? They are not > a part of the draft, so clearly some change in the > IPv6 registry will be made. But should we > > (a) Just remove the three old values, immediately > (b) Mark the three old values as temporarily reserved > for now, and remove then a couple of years later > (c) Keep the values for ever but mark them historic? > > I'm thinking that option a is the right way to go, unless > someone has an issue with it (say due to an old implementation). > > Comments? > > See http://www.iana.org/assignments/ipv6-parameters > > --Jari > > > _______________________________________________ > Mip6 mailing list > Mip6@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 > > --- > Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.522 / Virus Database: 320 - Release Date: 9/29/2003 > > --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.522 / Virus Database: 320 - Release Date: 9/29/2003 _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 10 13:37:26 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA04752 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 13:37:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJGuR-0007jy-VH for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 13:37:08 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAAIb7oQ029748 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 13:37:07 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJGuQ-0007jj-Rb for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 13:37:06 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA04736 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 13:36:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJGuO-0001x8-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 13:37:04 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJGuO-0001x4-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 13:37:04 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJGuL-0007iJ-4H; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 13:37:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJGtR-0007fj-OV for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 13:36:05 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA04690 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 13:35:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJGtP-0001wZ-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 13:36:03 -0500 Received: from omgo.iij.ad.jp ([202.232.30.157]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJGtO-0001wW-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 13:36:03 -0500 Received: from jc-smtp.iij.ad.jp ([192.168.176.35]) by omgo.iij.ad.jp (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAAIa0jE018952 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 03:36:00 +0900 (JST) Received: from localhost (jc-ssh.iij.ad.jp [192.168.174.22]) by jc-smtp.iij.ad.jp (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAAIZTAw008674 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 03:35:30 +0900 (JST) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 12:35:35 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <20031110.123535.56054902.keiichi@iij.ad.jp> To: mip6@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Mip6] MIPv6 and IANA actions -- DOs for BU/BA/BR From: Keiichi SHIMA / =?iso-2022-jp?B?GyRCRWc3RDBsGyhC?= In-Reply-To: <3FAED3CB.7090605@piuha.net> References: <3FAE8CDC.10804@kolumbus.fi> <3FAEB489.7060305@iprg.nokia.com> <3FAED3CB.7090605@piuha.net> X-Mailer: Mew version 4.0.59 on Emacs 21.3 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Jari Arkko Subject: [Mip6] MIPv6 and IANA actions -- DOs for BU/BA/BR > The IPv6 registry lists four destination options > for Mobile IPv6, the HAO which is used in the current > document and BU/BA/BR which are no longer used. > > What should we do with these options? They are not > a part of the draft, so clearly some change in the > IPv6 registry will be made. But should we > > (a) Just remove the three old values, immediately > (b) Mark the three old values as temporarily reserved > for now, and remove then a couple of years later > (c) Keep the values for ever but mark them historic? I think we should do (a). The destopt number space is not so large to keep unused options. :) --- Keiichi SHIMA IIJ Research Laboratory KAME Project _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 10 15:37:22 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA12273 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 15:37:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJImW-0000Yv-D4 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 15:37:04 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAAKb4AZ002136 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 15:37:04 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJImV-0000YF-OW for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 15:37:03 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA12230 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 15:36:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJImU-0004FX-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 15:37:02 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJImT-0004FP-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 15:37:01 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJImT-0000Wm-8X; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 15:37:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJIm8-0000Vl-JE for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 15:36:40 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA12190 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 15:36:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJIm6-0004Ei-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 15:36:38 -0500 Received: from sj-iport-5.cisco.com ([171.68.10.87]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJIm6-0004Dq-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 15:36:38 -0500 Received: from cisco.com (144.254.74.60) by sj-iport-5.cisco.com with ESMTP; 10 Nov 2003 12:39:17 -0800 Received: from xbe-lon-302.cisco.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ams-msg-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.6) with ESMTP id hAAKZn1A013100; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 21:35:50 +0100 (MET) Received: from xbe-lon-313.cisco.com ([64.103.99.73]) by xbe-lon-302.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5329); Mon, 10 Nov 2003 20:35:58 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [Mip6] HAHA architecture Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 20:35:58 -0000 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [Mip6] HAHA architecture Thread-Index: AcOlF9aU911/QiJHRPqCrnBLiM9iLACqv+GQ From: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" To: "Soliman Hesham" , "Thomas Narten" Cc: "Vijay Devarapalli" , , , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Nov 2003 20:35:58.0933 (UTC) FILETIME=[3FA22850:01C3A7CA] Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > -----Original Message----- > From: Soliman Hesham [mailto:H.Soliman@flarion.com] > Sent: vendredi 7 novembre 2003 11:13 > To: Pascal Thubert (pthubert); Thomas Narten > Cc: Vijay Devarapalli; greg.daley@eng.monash.edu.au; Basavaraj.Patil@nokia.com; mip6@ietf.org > Subject: RE: [Mip6] HAHA architecture was: Agenda for MIP6 at IETF58 >=20 >=20 > > > 2. How to replicate the HA functions across multiple > > > devices. > > > > > > > Yes, and we propose 3 approaches with different behaviours: > > proactive, reactive and predictive. > > Depending on the approach, the relation between the primary > > HA and the > > other HAs may be more like a proxy type (as HMIP) then a replication > > thing. > > It may happen that the mechanism for High Availability (that we can > > expect to be 'local', as you point out) is different from > > the mechanism > > for geo distribution of HAs, we'll have to decide that. >=20 > =3D> I'm not sure why you call them "High availability" and > "geo distribution", which seems to imply that you can > have one and not the other. In any case, see my comments > below. >=20 Ryuji will discuss some of this this afternoon. Yes, I guess that it could be a deployment thing to enable one or the other.=20 > Maybe we can > > leave full High Availability (HA, damn) to optional existing > > processes > > such as HSRP or VRRP, as you mention, but gain some level of it by a > > proxying process? >=20 > =3D> What's the redundancy requirement for the proxying > process? >=20 A proxy can serve local requests even if the original data is temporarily offline. So can a secondary HA. I'm not sure what else we can require past that (and whether I understood the question :) > > You still think "HA on links" as opposed to Home networks. We are not > > configuring a same address on several interfaces, making it > > anycast as > > you point out. > > We are making 'Home' an aggregation of Home subnets and > > Mobile Networks. > > And we are advertising that aggregation from several places. > > But the final subnets of that aggregation are still located > > in a unique > > place, be they Mobile Links or Home Links (unless other > > tricks are being > > played as part of an other game such as site replication). >=20 > =3D> So, in this scheme, is the HA's IP address (going back to > basics ;) ) known to the MN and kept the same independently > of which HA is serving the MN? >=20 Good point :) For high availability, if you want to have a hot standby backup and avoid to have all the MN rebind when a HA fails, you need that the backup is able to serve the same address, in other words, they are on a same link. This is actually one of the good reasons why the handling of the geographical distribution of HAs has better be a different mechanism. Other reasons are the load on the WAN, the latency, the model (might be reactive) etc... > > > > The only time I mentioned anycast is for DHAAD purposes, as > > in MIP. If > > several clusters advertise the same aggregation, a DHAAD > > request should > > get to the closest cluster. > > But this may be stretching anycast a little bit? Since we > > expect anycast > > addresses to be built after subnets, not aggregations, do > > we? Say we get > > passed that issue. > > > > Anyway at the end of DHAAD, we should have made it so that a > > MN gets a > > list with HAs in teh closest cluster. So the MN would register to a > > (primary) HA in a relatively close location. > > > > So in my mind, HAHA can be (among other things as Vijay mentioned) > > either about finding who the primary HA is and tunnel (HA to > > HA) to it > > (: which I tend to favor :), >=20 > =3D> So you're saying that the primary and the secondary > have different IP addresses, right? And when the primary > falls over, does the secondary "assume" the primary's IP > address and state? Otherwise this process would not be seamless > to the MN. >=20 >=20 > OR sharing the BCE info in all > > geographies, > > which links to security issues and impacts on the MN, as you > > mentioned. >=20 > =3D> The security issues I mentioned are due to the use > of anycast, not sharing BCEs. Sure. Like I said, anycast is used for DHAAD only, and it does not have to be secured. >=20 > > One way of envisionning the first possibility is: > > > > - MN register to closest HA (primary HA) > > - primary HA instanciates a MRHA tunnel and creates a route over that > > tunnel to the MN (MNP) that is being registered > > - primary HA redistributes that route to other HAs using > > HAHA protocol. > > This is a proactive model where HAHA looks like a classical Routing > > Protocol after all. > > > > No binding caches, just routes. Now, we may want to distribute these > > routes to remote clusters only on demand. Or we may have a > > predictable > > HA that centralizes the registration for a set of MN and have the > > primary act as a proxy to it. Very open at this point of time :) > > > > If there is a real Home Network for that MN, then the primary HA must > > proactively either register to one of the Home Network HA in a proxy > > fashion (not exactly HMIP, though, since it is transparent > > to the MN), > > or sync the binding with it, in order for that HA to > > intercept packets > > on the Home link. But supporting the Home Link is not necessarily a > > priority here (we almost removed coming Home in MIPv6, right?) >=20 > =3D> Right. But, wow! Why are we doing all this again?? > I mean, do you see major advantages compared to just having > the good old two routers back to back? > This seems to be going back to Thomas' first question about > how much complexity are we introducing and for how > much gain. So far, I don't see a significant gain apart > from doing the redundancy on L3. >=20 > But perhaps you're thinking of other scenarios (i.e. not just > the obvious MN-HA case). >=20 One is virtual Home. Note, the authors do not have all the answers, we have to design this thing together :) Where're opening a door that could allow to operate MIP at L3, but all the issues (: and benefits :) are not figured out yet. I believe that it's promising, though. I wonder what HA fallback (take-over) becomes when a Home Link is virtual. HAHA can be used to keep 2 HAs in sync, and then when one dies, classically, the other takes over its Home address... on the virtual link. On top of that, though, there needs to be Host routes updated on the surrounding routers to say which HA owns which Address on the virtual network so the packets from the MN gets to the right HA. There's also the question of the granularity of the load balancing. Does it make sense that the traffic for a given MN be load balanced between HAs, or is the granularity the MN, or a subset of Home? How does that impact HAHA, can it be only a deployment choice? > > Anyway the link between HAs backing up each other does not > > have to be a > > Home link for MIP purposes, right? >=20 > =3D> It can be a virtual link, i.e. tunnel, sure. That is, > if I understood your scheme correctly. >=20 Yes. Yes have in mind that you can have several locations, and in each location, a pair of HAs for high availability of the location or more than 2 if the scheme is load balancing. For instance, the 'sync' between locations could be reactive or predictive, while the local sync could be proactive. I believe we have to make sure that HAHA will provide all the modes, up to the deployment. The local pair of HAs could have a dedicated link for sync that does not have to be the Home Link, so Home can be virtual. This discussion requires a white board. Pascal _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 10 16:45:22 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA15138 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 16:45:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJJqK-0006NO-Lx for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 16:45:05 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAALj4kF024504 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 16:45:04 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJJqK-0006N9-IR for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 16:45:04 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA15125 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 16:44:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJJqI-0005Fw-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 16:45:02 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJJqI-0005Fr-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 16:45:02 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJJqH-0006Kf-Fu; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 16:45:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJJpL-0006F8-1j for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 16:44:03 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA15065 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 16:43:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJJpI-0005EM-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 16:44:00 -0500 Received: from p2.piuha.net ([131.160.192.2]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJJpH-0005Do-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 16:43:59 -0500 Received: from kolumbus.fi (p4.piuha.net [131.160.192.4]) by p2.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27A546A903 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 23:43:38 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <3FB00581.20304@kolumbus.fi> Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 23:39:13 +0200 From: Jari Arkko User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20030225 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: mip6@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Mip6] suggested contents of the IANA registry for MIPv6 Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit For your information, here's the suggested the IANA registry for MIPv6. It consists of changes in the current IPv6 registry (MH HAO -- other DOs not removed yet): http://www.iana.org/assignments/ipv6-parameters ICMPv6 registry (ICMPs and ND options): http://www.iana.org/assignments/icmpv6-parameters as well as a new registry shown below (MH types, options, and status codes): Mobile IPv6 parameters - per [RFC-ietf-mobileip-ipv6-24.txt] (last updated 2003-11-09) 1. Mobility Header Types - per [RFC-ietf-mobileip-ipv6-24.txt] - for the MH Type field in the Mobility Header Value Description Reference ----- --------------------------- --------- 0 Binding Refresh Request [RFC-ietf-mobileip-ipv6-24.txt] 1 Home Test Init [RFC-ietf-mobileip-ipv6-24.txt] 2 Care-of Test Init [RFC-ietf-mobileip-ipv6-24.txt] 3 Home Test [RFC-ietf-mobileip-ipv6-24.txt] 4 Care-of Test [RFC-ietf-mobileip-ipv6-24.txt] 5 Binding Update [RFC-ietf-mobileip-ipv6-24.txt] 6 Binding Acknowledgement [RFC-ietf-mobileip-ipv6-24.txt] 7 Binding Error [RFC-ietf-mobileip-ipv6-24.txt] Future values of the MH Type can be allocated using standards action. 2. Mobility Options - per [RFC-ietf-mobileip-ipv6-24.txt] Value Description Reference ----- --------------------------- --------- 0 Pad1 [RFC-ietf-mobileip-ipv6-24.txt] 1 PadN [RFC-ietf-mobileip-ipv6-24.txt] 2 Binding Refresh Advice [RFC-ietf-mobileip-ipv6-24.txt] 3 Alternate Care-of Address [RFC-ietf-mobileip-ipv6-24.txt] 4 Nonce Indices [RFC-ietf-mobileip-ipv6-24.txt] 5 Authorization Data [RFC-ietf-mobileip-ipv6-24.txt] Future values of the Option Type can be allocated using standards action. 3. Status Codes - per [RFC-ietf-mobileip-ipv6-24.txt] Value Description Reference ----- --------------------------- --------- 0 Binding Update accepted [RFC-ietf-mobileip-ipv6-24.txt] 1 Accepted but prefix discovery necessary [RFC-ietf-mobileip-ipv6-24.txt] 128 Reason unspecified [RFC-ietf-mobileip-ipv6-24.txt] 129 Administratively prohibited [RFC-ietf-mobileip-ipv6-24.txt] 130 Insufficient resources [RFC-ietf-mobileip-ipv6-24.txt] 131 Home registration not supported [RFC-ietf-mobileip-ipv6-24.txt] 132 Not home subnet [RFC-ietf-mobileip-ipv6-24.txt] 133 Not home agent for this mobile node [RFC-ietf-mobileip-ipv6-24.txt] 134 Duplicate Address Detection failed [RFC-ietf-mobileip-ipv6-24.txt] 135 Sequence number out of window [RFC-ietf-mobileip-ipv6-24.txt] 136 Expired home nonce index [RFC-ietf-mobileip-ipv6-24.txt] 137 Expired care-of nonce index [RFC-ietf-mobileip-ipv6-24.txt] 138 Expired nonces [RFC-ietf-mobileip-ipv6-24.txt] 139 Registration type change disallowed [RFC-ietf-mobileip-ipv6-24.txt] Future values of the Status field can be allocated using standards action. REFERENCES ---------- [RFC-ietf-mobileip-ipv6-24.txt] D. Johnson, C. Perkins, and J. Arkko, "Mobility Support in IPv6", RFC XXXX, Month Year. (Registry created 2003-11-03) [] _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 10 19:28:21 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA25848 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 19:28:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJMO4-00013S-ID for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 19:28:04 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAB0S4Fn004051 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 19:28:04 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJMO4-00013G-B2 for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 19:28:04 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA25790 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 19:27:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJMO2-0000xI-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 19:28:02 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJMO2-0000xF-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 19:28:02 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJMO1-00012M-UO; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 19:28:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJMNX-00011l-IW for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 19:27:31 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA25762 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 19:27:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJMNV-0000wg-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 19:27:29 -0500 Received: from mail.flarion.com ([63.103.94.23] helo=ftmail.lab.flarion.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJMNV-0000vf-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 19:27:29 -0500 Received: by ftmail.lab.flarion.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) id ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 19:25:40 -0500 Message-ID: <748C6D0A58C0F94CA63C198B6674697A01922EB8@ftmail.lab.flarion.com> From: Soliman Hesham To: "'Ed Remmell'" , mip6@ietf.org Cc: "'Thomas Narten'" Subject: RE: [Mip6] confusing statement in draft-24? Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 19:25:31 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , > This was added to prohibit a sloppy implementation of MIPv6 MN that > keeps around old prefix information (as well as perhaps > Neighbor Cache > and Redirect routing entries for the old link) in its > routing tree even > after movement to a new link/subnet. When the MN moves from the old > link, all of the prefix information, etc. that was > discovered on the old > link must be invalidated since the MN is no longer attached to that > link. => Yes of course, but that wording means something else. > > How about reword to: > > "The mobile node MUST ensure that its primary care-of > address always has > a prefix that is advertised by its current default router in > a solicited > Router Advertisement." => Sure, ("solicited RA" can be removed too) Hesham > > Thanks. > - Ed > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: mip6-admin@ietf.org [mailto:mip6-admin@ietf.org] On > > Behalf Of Soliman Hesham > > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2003 11:26 PM > > To: mip6@ietf.org > > Cc: 'Thomas Narten' > > Subject: [Mip6] confusing statement in draft-24? > > > > > > Hi, > > > > I don't know if it's too late... > > > > Just bumped into this statement in section 11.5.3: > > > > The > > mobile node MUST ensure that its primary care-of address > > always has a > > prefix that is considered on-link by its current default router, > > i.e., advertised by its current default router in a > > solicited Router > > Advertisement > > > > I don't understand why we need this restriction. The > > interpretation of the above would mean that the L flag in the > > prefix option must be set. There is no reason for this IMO. > > > > I think the intention was to say that the prefix is included > > in the RA, period. But the text above is misleading because > > of its use of the term 'on-link'. > > > > Another comment: > > > > I thought we'd agreed that RFC 3041 will be used to generate > > CoAs to avoid the problem with disabling the interface when > > DAD fails. But the text in 11.5.2 only refers to > > 2462, did I miss a discussion where this was changed ? > > > > Hesham > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Mip6 mailing list > > Mip6@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 > > > > --- > > Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > > Version: 6.0.522 / Virus Database: 320 - Release Date: 9/29/2003 > > > > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.522 / Virus Database: 320 - Release Date: 9/29/2003 > > _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 10 19:40:25 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA26225 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 19:40:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJMZi-0001bt-50 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 19:40:06 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAB0e5U9006183 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 19:40:05 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJMZh-0001be-4u for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 19:40:05 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA26218 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 19:39:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJMZf-00017a-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 19:40:03 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJMZf-00017X-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 19:40:03 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJMZe-0001az-Rw; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 19:40:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJMZN-0001aN-Lg for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 19:39:45 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA26211 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 19:39:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJMZL-00017N-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 19:39:43 -0500 Received: from smtp804.mail.sc5.yahoo.com ([66.163.168.183]) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJMZL-00017J-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 19:39:43 -0500 Received: from adsl-64-170-248-130.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net (HELO eremmell) (elmic@sbcglobal.net@64.170.248.130 with login) by smtp-sbc-v1.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Nov 2003 00:39:42 -0000 From: "Ed Remmell" To: "'Soliman Hesham'" , Cc: "'Thomas Narten'" Subject: RE: [Mip6] confusing statement in draft-24? Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 16:39:45 -0800 Message-ID: <00c501c3a7ec$4e1511f0$0900a8c0@eremmell> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <748C6D0A58C0F94CA63C198B6674697A01922EB8@ftmail.lab.flarion.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > How about reword to: > > > > "The mobile node MUST ensure that its primary care-of > > address always has > > a prefix that is advertised by its current default router in > > a solicited > > Router Advertisement." > > => Sure, ("solicited RA" can be removed too) So, reword to: "The mobile node MUST ensure that its primary care-of address always has a prefix that is advertised by its current default router." I'm OK with that change, it is clearer. Are we still making changes to this draft? A solicited RA should have the full set of prefix information known to the router for that link. Unsolicited RAs do not have to contain complete information, in fact if they are RA "beacons" that are sent very frequently to help MNs detect movement they very likely will not contain much information besides just a 'R' bit Prefix Information Option with a global scope router address. Thanks. - Ed --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.522 / Virus Database: 320 - Release Date: 9/29/2003 _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 10 21:01:22 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA29349 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 21:01:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJNq5-0005lU-1w for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 21:01:05 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAB214st022144 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 21:01:04 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJNq4-0005l5-RJ for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 21:01:04 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA29336 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 21:00:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJNq2-0002PR-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 21:01:02 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJNq1-0002PO-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 21:01:01 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJNq2-0005kQ-MS; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 21:01:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJNpg-0005j6-OK for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 21:00:40 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA29330 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 21:00:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJNpe-0002P2-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 21:00:38 -0500 Received: from neon.tcs.hut.fi ([130.233.215.20]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJNpd-0002Oy-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2003 21:00:37 -0500 Received: from rhea.tcs.hut.fi (rhea.tcs.hut.fi [130.233.215.147]) by neon.tcs.hut.fi (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F41E8000B0 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 04:00:36 +0200 (EET) Received: from rhea.tcs.hut.fi (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rhea.tcs.hut.fi (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian-6.6) with ESMTP id hAB20Z0a005007 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 04:00:35 +0200 Received: from localhost (whaddad@localhost) by rhea.tcs.hut.fi (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian-6.6) with ESMTP id hAB20ZFb005003 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 04:00:35 +0200 X-Authentication-Warning: rhea.tcs.hut.fi: whaddad owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 04:00:35 +0200 (EET) From: Wassim Haddad To: mip6@ietf.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [Mip6] New proposal Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Hi, A new proposal (dratf-haddad-mipv6-bub-00) has been submitted to the mip6 WG. It has been especially designed to address scenarios where the two endpoints are mobile (including the dual mobility problem). The draft suggets a new and more optimized solution (compared to the MIPv6). Your comments are welcome. Regards, Wassim H _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 11 09:35:27 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA02330 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 09:35:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJZbm-00049T-SM for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 09:35:08 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hABEZ6If015953 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 09:35:06 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJZbm-00049E-MX for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 09:35:06 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA02326 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 09:34:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJZbk-0003mz-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 09:35:04 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJZbk-0003mw-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 09:35:04 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJZbh-00048O-MZ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 09:35:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJZbY-000486-9h for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 09:34:52 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA02323 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 09:34:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJZbV-0003mo-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 09:34:49 -0500 Received: from p2.piuha.net ([131.160.192.2]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJZbV-0003ml-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 09:34:49 -0500 Received: from piuha.net (p4.piuha.net [131.160.192.4]) by p2.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79EA46A902; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 16:33:53 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <3FB0F0D5.6080903@kolumbus.fi> Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 16:23:17 +0200 From: Jari Arkko User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20030225 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Keiichi SHIMA Cc: mip6@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Mip6] I-D on route optimization hints References: <20031016.155846.03060450.keiichi@iij.ad.jp> In-Reply-To: <20031016.155846.03060450.keiichi@iij.ad.jp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Keiichi SHIMA wrote: > draft-shima-mip6-rohints-00.txt Hi Keiichi, Thank you for writing this draft. I believe it is an important task for the WG to start thinking about when to do RO and when not. However, in the meeting some issues were raised about whether the firewalls really are a problem, why the base specification approach of just failing the RO setup was not enough, and whether there were other RO usage issues that your draft did not address. I'd like to suggest a slightly different approach which would imho be more general and work better. Instead of *signaling* from the home agent when we should and should not do route optimization, it might make more sense to have a learning, soft state mechanism. The base specification already says something about remebering that a particular node does not do route optimization; that would also work in the firewall case, I think. In addition, a mobile node could measure the delays through birectional tunneling and route optimization by comparing the response times of HOTI and COTI, or measure other traffic. The mobile node could track movement frequency, and have some information about the types of traffic flows that it is sending. Together this information would perhaps help in deciding when to start route optimization and when not. In contrast, it does not seem easy to have a central configuration about all the situations of when to do RO. The home agent would not know about the firewalls between two random care-of locations, for instance. --Jari _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 11 11:07:26 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA07450 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:07:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJb2p-0002NV-Hj for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:07:09 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hABG772V009138 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:07:07 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJb2p-0002ND-4j for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:07:07 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA07442 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:06:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJb2m-0005Ak-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:07:04 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJb2m-0005Ah-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:07:04 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJb2j-0002Kl-0H; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:07:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJb25-0002K1-Ad for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:06:21 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA07421 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:06:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJb22-0005AA-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:06:18 -0500 Received: from darkstar.iprg.nokia.com ([205.226.5.69]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJb21-00059t-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:06:18 -0500 Received: (from root@localhost) by darkstar.iprg.nokia.com (8.11.0/8.11.0-DARKSTAR) id hABG5dD21092; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 08:05:39 -0800 X-mProtect: <200311111605> Nokia Silicon Valley Messaging Protection Received: from danira-pool054252.americas.nokia.com (10.241.54.252, claiming to be "iprg.nokia.com") by darkstar.iprg.nokia.com smtpdSEXxJf; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 08:05:38 PST Message-ID: <3FB108C6.4080109@iprg.nokia.com> Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 08:05:26 -0800 From: Vijay Devarapalli User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jari Arkko CC: Keiichi SHIMA , mip6@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Mip6] I-D on route optimization hints References: <20031016.155846.03060450.keiichi@iij.ad.jp> <3FB0F0D5.6080903@kolumbus.fi> In-Reply-To: <3FB0F0D5.6080903@kolumbus.fi> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit agree completely! Vijay Jari Arkko wrote: > I'd like to suggest a slightly different approach > which would imho be more general and work better. > Instead of *signaling* from the home agent when we > should and should not do route optimization, it > might make more sense to have a learning, soft > state mechanism. The base specification already > says something about remebering that a particular > node does not do route optimization; that would also > work in the firewall case, I think. In addition, > a mobile node could measure the delays through birectional > tunneling and route optimization by comparing the > response times of HOTI and COTI, or measure other > traffic. The mobile node could track movement > frequency, and have some information about the > types of traffic flows that it is sending. Together > this information would perhaps help in deciding when > to start route optimization and when not. > > In contrast, it does not seem easy to have a central > configuration about all the situations of when to do > RO. The home agent would not know about the firewalls > between two random care-of locations, for instance. _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 11 11:23:21 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA08048 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:23:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJbIE-0003lA-RI for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:23:02 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hABGN2OW014447 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:23:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJbIE-0003kv-Fs for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:23:02 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA08010 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:22:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJbID-0005Nb-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:23:01 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJbIC-0005NU-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:23:00 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJbID-0003kB-6y; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:23:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJbHf-0003f8-1X for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:22:27 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA07976 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:22:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJbHe-0005N0-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:22:26 -0500 Received: from darkstar.iprg.nokia.com ([205.226.5.69]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJbHd-0005Mh-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:22:25 -0500 Received: (from root@localhost) by darkstar.iprg.nokia.com (8.11.0/8.11.0-DARKSTAR) id hABGLpN32756; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 08:21:51 -0800 X-mProtect: <200311111621> Nokia Silicon Valley Messaging Protection Received: from danira-pool054252.americas.nokia.com (10.241.54.252, claiming to be "iprg.nokia.com") by darkstar.iprg.nokia.com smtpdajv7Jd; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 08:21:50 PST Message-ID: <3FB10C93.20105@iprg.nokia.com> Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 08:21:39 -0800 From: Vijay Devarapalli User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jari Arkko CC: mip6@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Mip6] suggested contents of the IANA registry for MIPv6 References: <3FB00581.20304@kolumbus.fi> In-Reply-To: <3FB00581.20304@kolumbus.fi> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit the Mobility Header is listed at http://www.iana.org/assignments/protocol-numbers 135 Mobility Header [RFC-ietf-mobileip-ipv6-24.txt] Vijay Jari Arkko wrote: > > For your information, here's the suggested the IANA > registry for MIPv6. It consists of changes in the current > IPv6 registry (MH HAO -- other DOs not removed yet): > > http://www.iana.org/assignments/ipv6-parameters > > ICMPv6 registry (ICMPs and ND options): > > http://www.iana.org/assignments/icmpv6-parameters > > as well as a new registry shown below (MH types, options, and > status codes): > > Mobile IPv6 parameters - per [RFC-ietf-mobileip-ipv6-24.txt] > > (last updated 2003-11-09) > > 1. Mobility Header Types - per [RFC-ietf-mobileip-ipv6-24.txt] > - for the MH Type field in the Mobility Header > > Value Description Reference > ----- --------------------------- --------- > 0 Binding Refresh Request [RFC-ietf-mobileip-ipv6-24.txt] > 1 Home Test Init [RFC-ietf-mobileip-ipv6-24.txt] > 2 Care-of Test Init [RFC-ietf-mobileip-ipv6-24.txt] > 3 Home Test [RFC-ietf-mobileip-ipv6-24.txt] > 4 Care-of Test [RFC-ietf-mobileip-ipv6-24.txt] > 5 Binding Update [RFC-ietf-mobileip-ipv6-24.txt] > 6 Binding Acknowledgement [RFC-ietf-mobileip-ipv6-24.txt] > 7 Binding Error [RFC-ietf-mobileip-ipv6-24.txt] > > Future values of the MH Type can be allocated using standards action. > > 2. Mobility Options - per [RFC-ietf-mobileip-ipv6-24.txt] > > Value Description Reference > ----- --------------------------- --------- > 0 Pad1 [RFC-ietf-mobileip-ipv6-24.txt] > 1 PadN [RFC-ietf-mobileip-ipv6-24.txt] > 2 Binding Refresh Advice [RFC-ietf-mobileip-ipv6-24.txt] > 3 Alternate Care-of Address [RFC-ietf-mobileip-ipv6-24.txt] > 4 Nonce Indices [RFC-ietf-mobileip-ipv6-24.txt] > 5 Authorization Data [RFC-ietf-mobileip-ipv6-24.txt] > > Future values of the Option Type can be allocated using standards > action. > > 3. Status Codes - per [RFC-ietf-mobileip-ipv6-24.txt] > > Value Description Reference > ----- --------------------------- --------- > 0 Binding Update accepted > [RFC-ietf-mobileip-ipv6-24.txt] > 1 Accepted but prefix discovery necessary > [RFC-ietf-mobileip-ipv6-24.txt] > 128 Reason unspecified > [RFC-ietf-mobileip-ipv6-24.txt] > 129 Administratively prohibited > [RFC-ietf-mobileip-ipv6-24.txt] > 130 Insufficient resources > [RFC-ietf-mobileip-ipv6-24.txt] > 131 Home registration not supported > [RFC-ietf-mobileip-ipv6-24.txt] > 132 Not home subnet > [RFC-ietf-mobileip-ipv6-24.txt] > 133 Not home agent for this mobile node > [RFC-ietf-mobileip-ipv6-24.txt] > 134 Duplicate Address Detection failed > [RFC-ietf-mobileip-ipv6-24.txt] > 135 Sequence number out of window > [RFC-ietf-mobileip-ipv6-24.txt] > 136 Expired home nonce index > [RFC-ietf-mobileip-ipv6-24.txt] > 137 Expired care-of nonce index > [RFC-ietf-mobileip-ipv6-24.txt] > 138 Expired nonces > [RFC-ietf-mobileip-ipv6-24.txt] > 139 Registration type change disallowed > [RFC-ietf-mobileip-ipv6-24.txt] > > Future values of the Status field can be allocated using standards > action. > > REFERENCES > ---------- > [RFC-ietf-mobileip-ipv6-24.txt] > D. Johnson, C. Perkins, and J. Arkko, "Mobility Support in > IPv6", > RFC XXXX, Month Year. > > (Registry created 2003-11-03) > > [] > > > _______________________________________________ > Mip6 mailing list > Mip6@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 11 11:35:35 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA08646 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:35:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJbTv-00052P-5T for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:35:17 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hABGZ7QC019359 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:35:07 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJbTv-00052A-19 for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:35:07 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA08625 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:34:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJbTu-0005Yz-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:35:06 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJbTt-0005Yw-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:35:05 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJbTt-00050c-OZ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:35:05 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJbT9-0004uv-Kf for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:34:19 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA08617 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:34:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJbT8-0005Yj-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:34:18 -0500 Received: from mail002.readyhosting.com ([63.119.175.16]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJbT6-0005Y9-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:34:17 -0500 Received: from LocalHost [130.129.71.230] by mail002.readyhosting.com (SMTPD32-6.06) id AE713D1007E; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 10:29:37 -0600 Message-ID: <001401c3a871$79f38880$e6478182@LocalHost> From: "Youn-Hee Han" To: "Jari Arkko" , "Keiichi SHIMA" Cc: References: <20031016.155846.03060450.keiichi@iij.ad.jp> <3FB0F0D5.6080903@kolumbus.fi> Subject: Re: [Mip6] I-D on route optimization hints Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 01:32:21 +0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGVsbG8gSmFyaSBhbmQgS2VpaWNoaSwgDQoNCj4gS2VpaWNoaSBTSElNQSB3cm90ZToNCj4gDQo+ ID4gZHJhZnQtc2hpbWEtbWlwNi1yb2hpbnRzLTAwLnR4dA0KPiANCj4gSGkgS2VpaWNoaSwNCj4g DQo+IFRoYW5rIHlvdSBmb3Igd3JpdGluZyB0aGlzIGRyYWZ0LiBJIGJlbGlldmUgaXQgaXMgYW4N Cj4gaW1wb3J0YW50IHRhc2sgZm9yIHRoZSBXRyB0byBzdGFydCB0aGlua2luZyBhYm91dCB3aGVu DQo+IHRvIGRvIFJPIGFuZCB3aGVuIG5vdC4NCg0KSSBhZ3JlZS4gQWx0aG91Z2ggUk8gaXMgYSBm dW5kYW1lbnRhbCBwYXJ0IG9mIG1pcHY2LA0KaXQgaXMgbm90IG1lbmRhdG9yeSBmdW5jdGlvbi4g U28sIHdlIHN0YXJ0IHRvIHRoaW5rIGhvdyB0byANCmRldGVybWluZSB3aGVuIHRvIGRvIFJPLiAN CiANCj4gSG93ZXZlciwgaW4gdGhlIG1lZXRpbmcgc29tZSBpc3N1ZXMgd2VyZSByYWlzZWQgYWJv dXQNCj4gd2hldGhlciB0aGUgZmlyZXdhbGxzIHJlYWxseSBhcmUgYSBwcm9ibGVtLCB3aHkgdGhl IGJhc2UNCj4gc3BlY2lmaWNhdGlvbiBhcHByb2FjaCBvZiBqdXN0IGZhaWxpbmcgdGhlIFJPIHNl dHVwDQo+IHdhcyBub3QgZW5vdWdoLCBhbmQgd2hldGhlciB0aGVyZSB3ZXJlIG90aGVyIFJPIHVz YWdlIGlzc3Vlcw0KPiB0aGF0IHlvdXIgZHJhZnQgZGlkIG5vdCBhZGRyZXNzLg0KDQpJIGFncmVl IHRvby4gVGhlIGRyYWZ0IG11c3QgbWV0aW9uIHRoZSBvdGhlciBjYXNlcyB3aGVuIHRvIGRvIA0K Uk8gYW5kIHdoZW4gbm90LiBCdXQsIGl0IGlzIGNsZWFyIHRoYXQgRmlyZXdhbGwgaXMgc3VjaCBh IGNhc2UuICAgDQoNCj4gSSdkIGxpa2UgdG8gc3VnZ2VzdCBhIHNsaWdodGx5IGRpZmZlcmVudCBh cHByb2FjaA0KPiB3aGljaCB3b3VsZCBpbWhvIGJlIG1vcmUgZ2VuZXJhbCBhbmQgd29yayBiZXR0 ZXIuDQo+IEluc3RlYWQgb2YgKnNpZ25hbGluZyogZnJvbSB0aGUgaG9tZSBhZ2VudCB3aGVuIHdl DQo+IHNob3VsZCBhbmQgc2hvdWxkIG5vdCBkbyByb3V0ZSBvcHRpbWl6YXRpb24sIGl0DQo+IG1p Z2h0IG1ha2UgbW9yZSBzZW5zZSB0byBoYXZlIGEgbGVhcm5pbmcsIHNvZnQNCj4gc3RhdGUgbWVj aGFuaXNtLiBUaGUgYmFzZSBzcGVjaWZpY2F0aW9uIGFscmVhZHkNCj4gc2F5cyBzb21ldGhpbmcg YWJvdXQgcmVtZWJlcmluZyB0aGF0IGEgcGFydGljdWxhcg0KPiBub2RlIGRvZXMgbm90IGRvIHJv dXRlIG9wdGltaXphdGlvbjsgdGhhdCB3b3VsZCBhbHNvDQo+IHdvcmsgaW4gdGhlIGZpcmV3YWxs IGNhc2UsIEkgdGhpbmsuIEluIGFkZGl0aW9uLA0KPiBhIG1vYmlsZSBub2RlIGNvdWxkIG1lYXN1 cmUgdGhlIGRlbGF5cyB0aHJvdWdoIGJpcmVjdGlvbmFsDQo+IHR1bm5lbGluZyBhbmQgcm91dGUg b3B0aW1pemF0aW9uIGJ5IGNvbXBhcmluZyB0aGUNCj4gcmVzcG9uc2UgdGltZXMgb2YgSE9USSBh bmQgQ09USSwgb3IgbWVhc3VyZSBvdGhlcg0KPiB0cmFmZmljLiBUaGUgbW9iaWxlIG5vZGUgY291 bGQgdHJhY2sgbW92ZW1lbnQNCj4gZnJlcXVlbmN5LCBhbmQgaGF2ZSBzb21lIGluZm9ybWF0aW9u IGFib3V0IHRoZQ0KPiB0eXBlcyBvZiB0cmFmZmljIGZsb3dzIHRoYXQgaXQgaXMgc2VuZGluZy4g VG9nZXRoZXINCj4gdGhpcyBpbmZvcm1hdGlvbiB3b3VsZCBwZXJoYXBzIGhlbHAgaW4gZGVjaWRp bmcgd2hlbg0KPiB0byBzdGFydCByb3V0ZSBvcHRpbWl6YXRpb24gYW5kIHdoZW4gbm90Lg0KDQpJ IHRoaW5rIHRoYXQgaXQgaXMgZ29vZCBhcHByb2FjaC4gTW92ZW1lbnQgdHJhY2tpbmcgY2FuIA0K YmUgZWFzaWx5IGJ5IE1OIGl0c2VsZi4gU28sIGl0IGNhbiBtYW5hZ2UgYSBtb2JpbGl0eSBwcm9m aWxlLA0Kd2hpY2ggaGFzIHRoZSBmcmVxdWVuY3kgcmF0ZSBvZiBtb3ZlbWVudCwgdmlzaXRpbmcg dGltZSBhdCANCmEgbGluaywgZXRjLiBJIGFsc28gdGhpbmsgdGhhdCBjb21hcGFyaW5nIHRoZSBy ZXNwb25zZSB0aW1lcyANCm9mIEhPVEkgYW5kIENPVEkgaXMgYSBnb29kIHRvb2wuIA0KT25lIGV4 dHJlbWUgY2FzZSBpcyB0aGF0IE1OIG1vdmVzIHZlcnkgZnJlcXVlbnR5IGFuZCANClJPZWQgcGFj a2V0cyBmcm9tIGEgQ04gYXJlIG1vcmUgZGVsYXllZCB0aGFuIFR1bm5lbGVkIA0KcGFja2V0cy4g QXQgdGhpcyBjYXNlLCBJTU8sIHN3aXRjaGluZyBvZmYgUk8gaXMgb2YgYmVuZWZpdC4NCg0KQXMg eW91IG1heSBrbm93LCB0aGVyZSBoYXZlIGJlZW4gc29tZSByZXNlYXJjaCBwYXBlcnMgcmVsYXRl ZCANCnRvIHRoaXMgaXNzdWVzLiBUaGF0IGlzLCBJTU8sIHRoaXMgaXNzdWUgbWF5IGF0dHJhY3Qg bWFueSBtb2JpbGVpcCANCnBlb3BsZSdzIGF0dGVudGlvbi4gU28sIGlmIHBvc3NpYmxlLCBJIGhv cGUgbWlwNiB3ZyBodWdzIHRoaXMgaXNzdWUuIA0KSG93ZXZlciwgSSBhbSBub3cgc3VyZSB0aGF0 IHRoaXMgaXNzdWUgaXMgcmVhbGx5IG9uZSB3aGljaCBuZWVkIA0KdG8gYmUgc3RhbmRhcmQuIE1h eWJlLCBpbmZvcm1hdGlvbmFsIChvciBleHBlcmltZW50YWwpIG1heSBiZSBlbm91Z2guIA0KDQot LSBZSA== _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 11 13:30:24 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA14488 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 13:30:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJdH9-0000mz-BE for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 13:30:05 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hABIU3XD003027 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 13:30:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJdH9-0000mk-6s for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 13:30:03 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA14478 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 13:29:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJdH7-0007Xx-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 13:30:01 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJdH6-0007Xu-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 13:30:00 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJdH7-0000mF-OQ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 13:30:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJdGE-0000lb-2H for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 13:29:06 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA14473 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 13:28:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJdGB-0007Xh-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 13:29:03 -0500 Received: from palrel11.hp.com ([156.153.255.246]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJdGB-0007Xe-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 13:29:03 -0500 Received: from strtio1.cup.hp.com (strtio1.cup.hp.com [15.13.129.245]) by palrel11.hp.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DA1F1C01166 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 10:29:03 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jlau@localhost) by strtio1.cup.hp.com (8.9.3 (PHNE_18979)/8.9.3 SMKit7.02) id KAA09319; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 10:27:46 -0800 (PST) From: Joe Lau Message-Id: <200311111827.KAA09319@strtio1.cup.hp.com> To: mip6@ietf.org Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 10:27:46 PST Cc: jlau@cup.hp.com In-Reply-To: <3FB0F0D5.6080903@kolumbus.fi>; from "Jari Arkko" at Nov 11, 103 6:34 am X-Mailer: Elm [revision: 212.4] Subject: [Mip6] IETF58 MIP6 slides URL Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , I got "page not found" error when I tried to access the following URL for the IETF 58 MIP6 slides. http://www.mindspring.com/~bpatil/IETF58/MIP6 Is the URL correct? Thanks. Joe _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 11 14:37:23 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA17433 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 14:37:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJeK1-0006Ge-QT for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 14:37:05 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hABJb5M4024086 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 14:37:05 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJeK0-0006G9-Lv for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 14:37:04 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA17392 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 14:36:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJeJx-0000nq-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 14:37:01 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJeJx-0000nn-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 14:37:01 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJeJw-0006Bj-Ok; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 14:37:00 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJeJR-00060m-JX for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 14:36:29 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA17339; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 14:36:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJeJO-0000mw-00; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 14:36:26 -0500 Received: from darkstar.iprg.nokia.com ([205.226.5.69]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJeJN-0000m8-00; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 14:36:26 -0500 Received: (from root@localhost) by darkstar.iprg.nokia.com (8.11.0/8.11.0-DARKSTAR) id hABJZqP07913; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:35:52 -0800 X-mProtect: <200311111935> Nokia Silicon Valley Messaging Protection Received: from rajeev.iprg.nokia.com (205.226.2.90, claiming to be "iprg.nokia.com") by darkstar.iprg.nokia.com smtpdck6Rrs; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:35:51 PST Message-ID: <3FB13A0D.DFE92276@iprg.nokia.com> Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:35:41 -0800 From: Rajeev Koodli Organization: Nokia Research Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.4-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: NJEDJOU Eric FTRD/DMR/REN CC: mipshop@ietf.org, mip6@ietf.org References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Mip6] Re: [Mipshop] fast handover revisions Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Eric, the issue of link triggers has come up more than once before, and we have arrived at a conclusion where the protocol itself does not define these. The primary reason is it is too link-specific that a generic abstraction would only serve the purpose of an API (which belongs to a separate space). While I agree that some guidelines could help, perhaps one could put them together in a separate ID if there is interest. Thank you for your comment. -Rajeev NJEDJOU Eric FTRD/DMR/REN wrote: > Hello folks, > > I get one remark on the the FMIPv6 specification update > > the specification says what follows: > > "The protocol begins when a MN sends RtSolPtr to its access router.... > The trigger for sending RtSolPr can emanate from a link-specific event, > such as the promise of better signal strength from another access point > coupled with fading signal quality with the current access point. Such > events, often broadly called as ``L2 triggers'', are outside the scope > of this document. Nevertheless, they serve as important events that > invoke the protocol. For instance, when a ``link up'' indication is > obtained on the new link, the protocol messages (e.g., FNA) can be > immediately transmitted. Implementations SHOULD make use of such > triggers whenever available." > > The big problem with saying that "L2 triggers are out of scope" is that > actually they are out of scope for all the documents that specify > handovers. [FMIP4] is an example. Which implies, it should be let to > implementors to decide how they build their triggers. This unfortunately > will results in implementations that will inter-work very badly, if not > at all. Even if this protocol is going experimental, i think is is still > time for mipshop to give guidances to implementors on what they should > consider as Fast Handoffs initiation/termination L2 triggers. > Triggers are available in almost every access technlogy. It could > therefore be possible to identify them technology per technology and > then define an abstraction just as what it is being done in DNA Working > Group for instance that has initiated an effort to cataloguing link > hints that can suggest that a Node has just attached/detached from a > network and that can optimise the attachment process in terms of IP > configuration. > While DNA is looking at Detecting network Attachment, Mipshop could be > focusing on identifying and get a consensus on link triggers that can > optimize the Fast Handoff operation in a couple of radio technologies, > rather than letting this critical issue to the fancy of every > implementator. Unless we really want that specification to rapidly go > experimental and then just forget about. > > Comments are welcommed > > Eric Nejdjou > -----Message d'origine----- > De : Rajeev Koodli [mailto:rajeev@iprg.nokia.com] > Envoye : samedi 11 octobre 2003 04:37 > A : mipshop@ietf.org; mip6@ietf.org > Objet : [Mipshop] fast handover revisions > > Hello folks, > > I have made some changes. > > - consolidated the network-initiated handover to a Section (3.3) . > Thanks to Jim Kempf for the suggestion and the text. > - revised the security considerations section as a follow up on my > previous message. This is mostly re-organizing the original text > to more clearly outline the considerations and the suggested > recommendations. > > I hope the draft is now ready for the last call! Chairs :-) > > I won't be able to participate in the discussions until IETF itself. > I will be away for few weeks. > > Best Regards, > > -Rajeev > > ps: you can download the draft from > > http://people.nokia.net/~rajeev/draft-ietf-mobileip-fast-mip6-08.txt > > _______________________________________________ > Mipshop mailing list > Mipshop@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mipshop > > -----Message d'origine----- > De : Rajeev Koodli [mailto:rajeev@iprg.nokia.com] > Envoye : samedi 11 octobre 2003 04:37 > A : mipshop@ietf.org; mip6@ietf.org > Objet : [Mipshop] fast handover revisions > > Hello folks, > > I have made some changes. > > - consolidated the network-initiated handover to a Section (3.3) . > Thanks to Jim Kempf for the suggestion and the text. > - revised the security considerations section as a follow up on my > previous message. This is mostly re-organizing the original text > to more clearly outline the considerations and the suggested > recommendations. > > I hope the draft is now ready for the last call! Chairs :-) > > I won't be able to participate in the discussions until IETF itself. > I will be away for few weeks. > > Best Regards, > > -Rajeev > > ps: you can download the draft from > > http://people.nokia.net/~rajeev/draft-ietf-mobileip-fast-mip6-08.txt > > _______________________________________________ > Mipshop mailing list > Mipshop@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mipshop _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 11 14:40:27 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA17569 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 14:40:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJeMy-0006jI-Nw for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 14:40:08 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hABJe8gQ025709 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 14:40:08 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJeMt-0006ga-Nr for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 14:40:03 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA17546 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 14:39:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJeMr-0000qi-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 14:40:01 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJeMq-0000qf-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 14:40:00 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJeMs-0006g5-EL; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 14:40:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJeMh-0006fC-Ip for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 14:39:51 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA17542 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 14:39:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJeMe-0000qW-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 14:39:48 -0500 Received: from [192.103.16.205] (helo=multihop.net) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJeMe-0000qT-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 14:39:48 -0500 Received: from kniveton.com (dyn134-83.ietf58.ietf.org [130.129.134.83]) by multihop.net (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hABJbMqT034161; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:37:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tj@kniveton.com) Message-ID: <3FB15667.1060306@kniveton.com> Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 13:36:39 -0800 From: "T.J. Kniveton" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Joe Lau CC: mip6@ietf.org, jlau@cup.hp.com Subject: Re: [Mip6] IETF58 MIP6 slides URL References: <200311111827.KAA09319@strtio1.cup.hp.com> In-Reply-To: <200311111827.KAA09319@strtio1.cup.hp.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit That URL works fine for me... make sure you have a good connection and DNS is working. Joe Lau wrote: >I got "page not found" error when I tried to access >the following URL for the IETF 58 MIP6 slides. > >http://www.mindspring.com/~bpatil/IETF58/MIP6 > >Is the URL correct? > >Thanks. > >Joe > >_______________________________________________ >Mip6 mailing list >Mip6@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 > > _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 11 14:42:28 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA17643 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 14:42:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJeOt-0006wG-Sp for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 14:42:10 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hABJg7SF026666 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 14:42:07 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJeOt-0006vv-Lq for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 14:42:07 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA17609 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 14:41:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJeOq-0000rk-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 14:42:04 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJeOq-0000rg-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 14:42:04 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJeOn-0006ul-SX; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 14:42:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJeOK-0006qu-BM for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 14:41:32 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA17601; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 14:41:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJeOH-0000rU-00; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 14:41:29 -0500 Received: from darkstar.iprg.nokia.com ([205.226.5.69]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJeOG-0000r1-00; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 14:41:29 -0500 Received: (from root@localhost) by darkstar.iprg.nokia.com (8.11.0/8.11.0-DARKSTAR) id hABJeox14000; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:40:50 -0800 X-mProtect: <200311111940> Nokia Silicon Valley Messaging Protection Received: from rajeev.iprg.nokia.com (205.226.2.90, claiming to be "iprg.nokia.com") by darkstar.iprg.nokia.com smtpdCZX0N9; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:40:48 PST Message-ID: <3FB13B36.BE90A3F1@iprg.nokia.com> Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:40:38 -0800 From: Rajeev Koodli Organization: Nokia Research Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; FreeBSD 3.4-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ed Remmell CC: "'NJEDJOU Eric FTRD/DMR/REN'" , mipshop@ietf.org, mip6@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Mip6] RE: [Mipshop] fast handover revisions References: <000001c3a3e5$7df76770$0900a8c0@eremmell> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Ed, the fast handover draft allows both categories below. Category 1) is network-initiated handover and 2) is MN-initiated. Regarding movement detection in 2) below, the fast handovers allows a MN to build [AP-ID, AR-info] tuple ahead of handover. So, when the link-up indicates a new AP-ID, the MN can determine if there is a new AR behind it. -Rajeev Ed Remmell wrote: > FWIW, my understanding of L2 triggers: > > 1) category "network directed hop": > This is where the network sends some type of message to the MN, that > directs the MN to move and/or tells it that it has moved. I believe this > is how MIPv6 fast handovers typically defines "L2 triggers", although > I'm not so familiar with that material. > > 2) category "undirected hop": > This is when the MN detects on its own either that it should move to a > different link/channel, or it has already moved. This also includes the > simple "link up" indication, however that indication does not > necessarily indicate movement to a new link. If the link-layer > incorporates the subnet information (for example, there is a draft for > WiFi that recommends using the ESSID for this purpose; CDPD used the > areaGroup color code in the MAC-layer blocks sent to the M-ES/MN by the > cellular base station for this purpose, pre-MIPv6), then the MN at the > link-layer (i.e. in the device driver) will be able to detect link > movement that corresponds to subnet movement, and then can issue the > appropriate L2 trigger to itself, in this case notifying its MN state > machine of a subnet move ("L3 move"). I refer to these types of triggers > as "L2 move" and "L3 move", the "link up" indication corresponding to > "L2 move" because it may be movement back to the same link/subnet, and > "L3 move" indicating a move to a new subnet. I treat NUD indication that > the old default router is no longer reachable as a L3 move. > > Thanks. > - Ed Remmell > Elmic Systems, USA > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: mip6-admin@ietf.org [mailto:mip6-admin@ietf.org] On > > Behalf Of NJEDJOU Eric FTRD/DMR/REN > > Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 6:21 AM > > To: Rajeev Koodli; mipshop@ietf.org; mip6@ietf.org > > Subject: [Mip6] RE: [Mipshop] fast handover revisions > > > > > > Hello folks, > > > > I get one remark on the the FMIPv6 specification update > > > > the specification says what follows: > > > > "The protocol begins when a MN sends RtSolPtr to its access > > router.... The trigger for sending RtSolPr can emanate from a > > link-specific event, such as the promise of better signal > > strength from another access point coupled with fading signal > > quality with the current access point. Such events, often > > broadly called as ``L2 triggers'', are outside the scope of > > this document. Nevertheless, they serve as important events > > that invoke the protocol. For instance, when a ``link up'' > > indication is obtained on the new link, the protocol messages > > (e.g., FNA) can be immediately transmitted. Implementations > > SHOULD make use of such triggers whenever available." > > > > The big problem with saying that "L2 triggers are out of > > scope" is that actually they are out of scope for all the > > documents that specify handovers. [FMIP4] is an example. > > Which implies, it should be let to implementors to decide how > > they build their triggers. This unfortunately will results in > > implementations that will inter-work very badly, if not at > > all. Even if this protocol is going experimental, i think is > > is still time for mipshop to give guidances to implementors > > on what they should consider as Fast Handoffs > > initiation/termination L2 triggers. > > Triggers are available in almost every access technlogy. It > > could therefore be possible to identify them technology per > > technology and then define an abstraction just as what it is > > being done in DNA Working Group for instance that has > > initiated an effort to cataloguing link hints that can > > suggest that a Node has just attached/detached from a network > > and that can optimise the attachment process in terms of IP > > configuration. > > While DNA is looking at Detecting network Attachment, Mipshop > > could be focusing on identifying and get a consensus on link > > triggers that can optimize the Fast Handoff operation in a > > couple of radio technologies, rather than letting this > > critical issue to the fancy of every implementator. Unless we > > really want that specification to rapidly go experimental and > > then just forget about. > > > > Comments are welcommed > > > > Eric Nejdjou > > -----Message d'origine----- > > De : Rajeev Koodli [mailto:rajeev@iprg.nokia.com] > > Envoye : samedi 11 octobre 2003 04:37 > > A : mipshop@ietf.org; mip6@ietf.org > > Objet : [Mipshop] fast handover revisions > > > > > > > > Hello folks, > > > > I have made some changes. > > > > - consolidated the network-initiated handover to a Section (3.3) . > > Thanks to Jim Kempf for the suggestion and the text. > > - revised the security considerations section as a follow up on my > > previous message. This is mostly re-organizing the original text > > to more clearly outline the considerations and the suggested > > recommendations. > > > > I hope the draft is now ready for the last call! Chairs :-) > > > > I won't be able to participate in the discussions until IETF > > itself. I will be away for few weeks. > > > > Best Regards, > > > > -Rajeev > > > > ps: you can download the draft from > > > > http://people.nokia.net/~rajeev/draft-ietf-mobileip-fast-mip6-08.txt > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Mipshop mailing list > > Mipshop@ietf.org > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mipshop > > > > -----Message d'origine----- > > De : Rajeev Koodli [mailto:rajeev@iprg.nokia.com] > > Envoye : samedi 11 octobre 2003 04:37 > > A : mipshop@ietf.org; mip6@ietf.org > > Objet : [Mipshop] fast handover revisions > > > > > > > > Hello folks, > > > > I have made some changes. > > > > - consolidated the network-initiated handover to a Section (3.3) . > > Thanks to Jim Kempf for the suggestion and the text. > > - revised the security considerations section as a follow up on my > > previous message. This is mostly re-organizing the original text > > to more clearly outline the considerations and the suggested > > recommendations. > > > > I hope the draft is now ready for the last call! Chairs :-) > > > > I won't be able to participate in the discussions until IETF > > itself. I will be away for few weeks. > > > > Best Regards, > > > > -Rajeev > > > > ps: you can download the draft from > > > http://people.nokia.net/~rajeev/draft-ietf-mobileip-fast-mip6-08.txt > > _______________________________________________ > Mipshop mailing list > Mipshop@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mipshop > > _______________________________________________ > Mip6 mailing list > Mip6@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 > > --- > Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.522 / Virus Database: 320 - Release Date: 9/29/2003 > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.522 / Virus Database: 320 - Release Date: 9/29/2003 > _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 11 16:03:25 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA21840 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 16:03:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJffG-0004ii-Py for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 16:03:07 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hABL36nE018144 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 16:03:06 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJffG-0004iZ-Lu for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 16:03:06 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA21820 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 16:02:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJffC-00025b-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 16:03:02 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJffB-00025X-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 16:03:01 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJffB-0004hH-HQ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 16:03:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJfeJ-0004gk-Rv for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 16:02:07 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA21791 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 16:01:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJfeI-000251-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 16:02:06 -0500 Received: from bay10-dav48.bay10.hotmail.com ([64.4.37.222] helo=hotmail.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJfeG-00024f-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 16:02:04 -0500 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 13:01:31 -0800 Received: from 137.73.11.9 by bay10-dav48.bay10.hotmail.com with DAV; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 21:01:31 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [137.73.11.9] X-Originating-Email: [devietf@hotmail.com] From: "dev" To: Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 21:02:09 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0038_01C3A897.12701810" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Nov 2003 21:01:31.0399 (UTC) FILETIME=[FB77A970:01C3A896] Subject: [Mip6] research proposals Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0038_01C3A897.12701810 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Friends =20 I am interested in researching in MIPv6. I am now thinking of research = topics in MIPv6 / FMIPv6 / HMIPv6. If anyone has research proposals or = any research topics in this area, please let me know. I have one year of researching experience in MIPv6 software. Since I = have finished that one, I am now thinking of new one. Any help is highly = appreciated.=20 =20 My broad research areas include =20 1) MIPv6 / HMIPv6 /FMIPv6 2) Adhoc wireless networks using IPv6 mobility 3) IPv6 based mobile QoS Protocol 4) TCP performance over MIPv6 under different scenarios 5) MIPv6 based personal or cellular communications services 6) MIPv6 based network architecture 7) MIPv6 based management for wireless networks 8) MIPv6 based performance modelling 9) MIPv6 under micro-mobility scenario 10) Design and analysis for MIPv6 based switching algorithms 11) Fault tolerance for MIpv6 based mobile computing =20 Any help or reference in this front is highly appreciatable. If any of = have any project proposals related to this please let me know =20 Eagerly waiting for your guidance Best Regards Dev ------=_NextPart_000_0038_01C3A897.12701810 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dear = Friends

 

I am interested in = researching in=20 MIPv6. I am now thinking of research topics in MIPv6 / FMIPv6 / HMIPv6. = If=20 anyone has research proposals or any research topics in this area, = please let me=20 know.

I have one year of = researching=20 experience in MIPv6 software. Since I have finished that one, I am now = thinking=20 of new one. Any help is highly appreciated.

 

My broad research areas=20 include

 

1)      =20 MIPv6 /=20 HMIPv6 /FMIPv6

2)      =20 Adhoc=20 wireless networks using IPv6 mobility

3)      =20 IPv6=20 based mobile QoS Protocol

4)      =20 TCP=20 performance over MIPv6 under different scenarios

5)      =20 MIPv6=20 based personal or cellular communications services

6)      =20  MIPv6 based network=20 architecture

7)      =20 MIPv6=20 based management for wireless networks

8)      =20 MIPv6=20 based performance modelling

9)      =20 MIPv6=20 under micro-mobility scenario

10)   = Design and analysis for = MIPv6 based=20 switching algorithms

11)   = Fault tolerance for MIpv6 = based=20 mobile computing

 

Any help or reference in = this front=20 is highly appreciatable. If any of have any project proposals related to = this=20 please let me know

 

Eagerly waiting for = your=20 guidance

 

Best = Regards

Dev

------=_NextPart_000_0038_01C3A897.12701810-- _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 11 20:16:23 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA02623 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 20:16:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJjc4-0000wE-8c for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 20:16:04 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAC1G4JG003598 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 20:16:04 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJjc4-0000vr-1g for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 20:16:04 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA02582 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 20:15:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJjc1-00065y-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 20:16:01 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJjc1-00065t-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 20:16:01 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJjc1-0000uK-QS; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 20:16:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJjbi-0000o8-Jq for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 20:15:42 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA02476 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 20:15:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJjbg-00060Q-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 20:15:40 -0500 Received: from manatick.foretec.com ([4.17.168.5] helo=manatick) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJjXe-0005vL-01 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 20:11:30 -0500 Received: from [81.199.6.27] (helo=helimore2355.com) by manatick with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1AJjIJ-0004nN-Ln for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 19:55:42 -0500 From: "Mrs. JEWEL TAYLOR" Reply-To: tayjewl01@hknetmail.com To: mip6@ietf.org Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 23:57:44 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6900 DM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [Mip6] HELLO Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I Beg You In =2E With all sincerity and humility i am Jewel Taylor=2Cthe wife of the deposed President of Liberia=2C Fomer African colony of the United states Of America=2E I write you this proposal based on the fact that i need your aid to relocate to a safe haven my husbands personal funds and effects namely 2kg weight of Diamond stones and 14 gold bars with $2=2E4 Million USD=2Call deposited in a safety deposit box in a financial institution which will be later disclosed to you upon your offer of acceptance=2E The lives of myself and my children are at risk ever since my husband engaged himself in this rebel of a thing in my country which later saw him as the president of my country=2E We have currently been offered political assylum in the Federal Republic Of Nigeria by its Presiden=2COlusegun Obasanjo=2Cwhich will confine us to its shores for the rest of my lives=2E I have been guranted safety by the United staes Government and that of the Nigerian Government by a meeting held with both Presidents=2CPresident George Bush Of the united States and that of the Nigerian President on the 10th of July 2003 at the just concluded Leon Sullivan Summit Held In Nigeria=2E=2E What you may hear of my husband should you decide to verify may not be of a good report but he has learnt his lesson the hard way and what i do now i do for the sake of my two daughters and son whom i pray to God in order not for them to suffer for the sins of their Father=2E I am prepared and willing to consider your price for aiding me in this matter and will welcome your conditions to the best of my abilities=2E Upon my arrival in Nigeria i will provide you with a phone line in which i can be reached as it is not possible for me to make long distance calls from my place of confinement except i do it a few blocks away if the necessary need arises=2E View this site to see a picture of me=3A http=3A=2F=2Fnews=2Ebbc=2Eco=2Euk=2F2=2Fhi=2Fafrica=2F2963086=2Estm I look forward to your prompt response=2E Yours Sincerly=2C Jewel Taylor=2E _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Nov 12 00:24:33 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA08758 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 00:24:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJnUF-00088r-BA for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 00:24:16 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAC5OFBe031297 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 00:24:15 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJnUF-00088i-7g for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 00:24:15 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA08602 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 00:24:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJnUC-00011N-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 00:24:12 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJnUB-000110-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 00:24:11 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJnU8-00083S-Bp; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 00:24:08 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJn4z-0006Tx-4P for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 23:58:09 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA07941 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 23:57:56 -0500 (EST) From: musiliu_bako@rediffmail.com Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJn4w-0000iU-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 23:58:06 -0500 Received: from dhcp024-210-022-024.columbus.rr.com ([24.210.22.24] helo=MAILSERVER.domain.local) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJn4v-0000iA-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 23:58:06 -0500 Received: from smtp0321.mail.yahoo.com ([200.138.100.160]) by MAILSERVER.domain.local with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Tue, 11 Nov 2003 19:50:19 -0500 Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 09:45:17 GMT X-Priority: 3 To: mip6@ietf.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Nov 2003 00:50:25.0106 (UTC) FILETIME=[F5650B20:01C3A8B6] Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ietf.org id XAA07942 Subject: [Mip6] YOUR PARTNERSHIP IS REQUIRED Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable DR. MUSILIU BAKO. OFFICE OF THE CHAIRMAN, FEDERAL GOVERNMENT OF NIGERIA REGIONAL HEADQUATERS, LAGOS. SECURITY E-MAIL ADD: musiliu_bako@rediffmail.com musiliu_bako@albawaba.com DEAR SIR, REQUEST FOR URGENT BUSINESS RELATIONSHIP FIRST, I MUST SOLICIT YOUR UTMOST CONFIDENTIALITY IN THIS TRANSACTION DUE= TO IT=92S HIGHLY SENSITIVE NATURE YOU HAVE BEEN RECOMMENDED BY AN ASSOCI= ATE WHO ASSURES US IN CONFIDENCE OF YOUR ABILITY AND RELIABILITY TO PROSE= CUTE A TRANSACTION OF GREAT MAGNITUDE REQUIRING MAXIMUM CONFIDENTALITY. W= ITH ALL DUE RESPECT,I DEEMED IT WISE TO PERSONALLY CONTACT YOU AND SEEK Y= OUR CO-OPERATION IN AN URGENT BUSINESS THAT WOULD BE OF MUTUAL BENEFIT TO BOT= H OF US. I WAS AN EXTERNAL AUDITOR WITH THE NIGERIAN PETROLEUM CORPORATION (N.N.P.= C.).AFTER THE EXIT OF THE MILITARY GOVERNMENT IN MAY 1999, I WAS ASIGNED = TO THE CONTRACT REVIEW PANEL SET UP BY THE NEW DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED PRE= SIDENT, CHIEF OLUSEGUN OBASANJO TO AUDIT AND VERIFY ALL CONTRACT AWARDED = AND EXECUTED DURING THE REGIME OF LATE GEN.SANI ABACHA. IN THE COURSE OF CARRING OUT MY DUTIES,I DISCOVERED THE EXISTENCE OF A HU= GE AMOUNT TO THE TUNE OF US$35,600,000.00 FLOATING UNDER THE NAME OF A NON-EXISTING COMPANY AS ALR= EADY VERIFIED BY ME. I PERSONALLY INVESTIGATED THE DEVELOPMENT AND DISCOVERED THAT THE SAID SU= M RESULTED FROM OVER INVOICING OF SOME ALREADY COMPLETED FOREIGN CONTRACT PAPERS BY A FORMER M= INISTER IN THE LATE GEN.SANI ABACHA=92S REGIME. I HAVE DELIGATED THE MAT= TER WITH THE KEY MEMBERS OF THE CONTRACT REVIEW PANEL AND WE HAVE AGREED = THAT SINCE THE FUNDS (US$35,600,000.00) HAS ALREADY BEEN APPROVED BY THE = NEW GOVERNMENT FOR PAYMENT BASED ON THE OVER INVOICED CONTRACT PAPERS,THA= T WE SHOULD TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE OPPORTUNITY AND AS SUCH SEEK THE ASSIST= ANCE OF A TRUSTWORTHY FOREIGN FIRM TO ACT AS THE BENEFICIARY OF THE SAID = FUNDS ON OUR BEHALF,AS OUR CODE OF CONDUCT DOES NOT PERMIT US TO OPERATE = A FOREIGN ACCOUNT, MOST EXPECIALLY,THIS PERIOD IN WHICH THE PRESIDENT IS = RECOVERING MONEY FROM ALMOST EVERY TOP GOVERNMENT OFFICIAL WHO SERVED IN = THE ABACHA REGIME. I WAS THEREBY MANDATED TO INTRODUCE A TRUSTWORTY FIRM TO ACT AS THE BENEF= ICIARY OF THE SAID SUM AND PROVIDE THE ACCOUNT ABROAD WHERE THE MONEY WOU= LD BE REMITTED. I HEREBY WISH TO REQUEST YOUR CONFIDENTIAL CO-OPERATION IN THE RESPECT. AS SOON AS I GET A GO AHEAD CONFIRMATION FROM YOU ON THE ABOVE SUBJECT, W= E WOULD FIRST OF ALL AGREE ON THE SHARING PERCENTAGE OF THE TOTAL SUM WIT= H YOU, AFTER WHICH WE WILL THEN ARRANGE CONTRACT DOCUMENTS COVERING THE A= MOUNT IN QUESTION. WE ENSURE THAT WE GET APPROVAL TO ENABLE THE SAID SUM= BE TRANSFERRED INTO YOUR NOMINATED ACCOUNT FOR US ALL, WITHOUT DELAY. PLEASE FOR SECURITY REASON DON=92T CONTACT ME WITH THE E-MAIL I USED IN S= ENDING THIS PROPOSAL TO YOU, KINDLY CONTACT ME ON MY PERSONAL E-MAIL ADDR= ESSES:(musiliu_bako@rediffmail.com OR musiliu_bako@albawaba.com) TO= ENABLE ME ASCERTAIN YOUR WILLINGNESS IN CO-OPERATING WITH US AND ALSO TO= FURNISH YOU WITH THE FULL DETAILS OF THIS TRANSACTION. TRUSTING ON YOUR KIND CO-OPERATION AND APPRECIATING YOUR FULL UNDERSTANDI= NG AND THE NEED FOR ABSOLUTE CONFIDENTIALITY. AWAITING WITH INTEREST YOUR PROMPT POSITIVE RESPONSE. KINDEST REGARDS DR. MUSILIU BAKO _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Nov 12 08:47:27 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA17209 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 08:47:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJvKo-0002be-H2 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 08:47:08 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hACDl2xx010017 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 08:47:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJvKo-0002bU-8m for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 08:47:02 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA17202 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 08:46:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJvKm-0006fk-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 08:47:01 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJvKm-0006fh-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 08:47:00 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJvKm-0002az-DM; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 08:47:00 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJvKJ-0002XM-DW for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 08:46:31 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA17193 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 08:46:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJvKI-0006fX-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 08:46:30 -0500 Received: from omgo.iij.ad.jp ([202.232.30.157]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJvKH-0006fU-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 08:46:29 -0500 Received: from jc-smtp.iij.ad.jp ([192.168.176.35]) by omgo.iij.ad.jp (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hACDkPw9012758; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 22:46:26 +0900 (JST) Received: from localhost (jc-ssh.iij.ad.jp [192.168.174.22]) by jc-smtp.iij.ad.jp (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hACDjkk7013197; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 22:45:47 +0900 (JST) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 07:45:50 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <20031112.074550.89607942.keiichi@iij.ad.jp> To: mip6@ietf.org, jari.arkko@piuha.net, vijayd@iprg.nokia.com, yhhan@thinkonweb.com Subject: Re: [Mip6] I-D on route optimization hints From: Keiichi SHIMA / =?iso-2022-jp?B?GyRCRWc3RDBsGyhC?= In-Reply-To: <3FB0F0D5.6080903@kolumbus.fi> References: <20031016.155846.03060450.keiichi@iij.ad.jp> <3FB0F0D5.6080903@kolumbus.fi> X-Mailer: Mew version 4.0.59 on Emacs 21.3 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, Thank you for all of your comments and replies. I see the firewall case is not the best and only case to describe ro hints. Also, the idea Jari suggests looks good to me too. I'll try to list any possible ways to get information to judge the initiation of RO in the next draft. --- Keiichi SHIMA From: Jari Arkko Subject: Re: [Mip6] I-D on route optimization hints Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 16:23:17 +0200 > > However, in the meeting some issues were raised about > whether the firewalls really are a problem, why the base > specification approach of just failing the RO setup > was not enough, and whether there were other RO usage issues > that your draft did not address. > > I'd like to suggest a slightly different approach > which would imho be more general and work better. > Instead of *signaling* from the home agent when we > should and should not do route optimization, it > might make more sense to have a learning, soft > state mechanism. The base specification already > says something about remebering that a particular > node does not do route optimization; that would also > work in the firewall case, I think. In addition, > a mobile node could measure the delays through birectional > tunneling and route optimization by comparing the > response times of HOTI and COTI, or measure other > traffic. The mobile node could track movement > frequency, and have some information about the > types of traffic flows that it is sending. Together > this information would perhaps help in deciding when > to start route optimization and when not. > > In contrast, it does not seem easy to have a central > configuration about all the situations of when to do > RO. The home agent would not know about the firewalls > between two random care-of locations, for instance. > > --Jari > > _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Nov 12 09:01:22 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA17871 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 09:01:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJvYN-0003IW-N8 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 09:01:03 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hACE134K012670 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 09:01:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJvYN-0003IH-H3 for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 09:01:03 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA17839 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 09:00:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJvYM-0006tT-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 09:01:02 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJvYL-0006tQ-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 09:01:01 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJvYK-0003Hf-Ns; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 09:01:00 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJvY3-0003Fg-W9 for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 09:00:44 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA17808 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 09:00:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJvY1-0006qe-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 09:00:42 -0500 Received: from omgo.iij.ad.jp ([202.232.30.157]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJvY0-0006q3-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 09:00:41 -0500 Received: from jc-smtp.iij.ad.jp ([192.168.176.35]) by omgo.iij.ad.jp (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hACE0cw9013158 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 23:00:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from localhost (jc-ssh.iij.ad.jp [192.168.174.22]) by jc-smtp.iij.ad.jp (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hACE08k7013205 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 23:00:08 +0900 (JST) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 08:00:12 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <20031112.080012.122659041.keiichi@iij.ad.jp> To: mip6@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Mip6] suggested contents of the IANA registry for MIPv6 From: Keiichi SHIMA / =?iso-2022-jp?B?GyRCRWc3RDBsGyhC?= In-Reply-To: <3FB00581.20304@kolumbus.fi> References: <3FB00581.20304@kolumbus.fi> X-Mailer: Mew version 4.0.59 on Emacs 21.3 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, From: Jari Arkko Subject: [Mip6] suggested contents of the IANA registry for MIPv6 Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 23:39:13 +0200 > ICMPv6 registry (ICMPs and ND options): > > http://www.iana.org/assignments/icmpv6-parameters The above text has duplicated code numbers for ND option of MIP6. > IPv6 NEIGHBOR DISCOVERY OPTION FORMATS > -------------------------------------- > > The IPv6 Neighbor Discovery has options that are identified by an Option > Format Type field [RFC2461]. > > Type Description Reference > ---- ----------- --------- > 1 Source Link-layer Address [RFC2461] > 2 Target Link-layer Address [RFC2461] > 3 Prefix Information [RFC2461] > 4 Redirected Header [RFC2461] > 5 MTU [RFC2461] > > 6 NBMA Shortcut Limit Option [IPV6-NBMA] > 7 Advertisement Interval [MOBILE-IPv6] > 8 Home Agent Information [MOBILE-IPv6] > > 9 Source Address List [RFC3122] > 10 Target Address List [RFC3122] > 11 Advertisement Interval Option [RFC-ietf-mobileip-ipv6-24.txt] > 12 Home Agent Information Option [RFC-ietf-mobileip-ipv6-24.txt] Should we use 11 and 12 instead of 7 and 8? --- Keiichi SHIMA _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Nov 12 11:00:30 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA24006 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:00:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJxPf-0001si-LC for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:00:12 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hACG0A6H007226 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:00:10 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJxPc-0001sO-4D for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:00:08 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA23987 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:59:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJxPY-00012S-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:00:04 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJxPY-00012P-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:00:04 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJxPW-0001rl-Jv; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 11:00:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJxPL-0001r9-KE for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:59:51 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA23966 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:59:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJxPJ-00011n-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:59:49 -0500 Received: from p2.piuha.net ([131.160.192.2]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJxPI-00011k-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:59:48 -0500 Received: from kolumbus.fi (p4.piuha.net [131.160.192.4]) by p2.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1E3A6A904; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 17:59:36 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <3FB257E5.6090108@kolumbus.fi> Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 17:55:17 +0200 From: Jari Arkko User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20030225 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Keiichi SHIMA Cc: mip6@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Mip6] suggested contents of the IANA registry for MIPv6 References: <3FB00581.20304@kolumbus.fi> <20031112.080012.122659041.keiichi@iij.ad.jp> In-Reply-To: <20031112.080012.122659041.keiichi@iij.ad.jp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Keiichi SHIMA wrote: > Hi all, > > From: Jari Arkko > Subject: [Mip6] suggested contents of the IANA registry for MIPv6 > Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 23:39:13 +0200 > > >>ICMPv6 registry (ICMPs and ND options): >> >> http://www.iana.org/assignments/icmpv6-parameters > > > The above text has duplicated code numbers for ND option of MIP6. Yes. I have already notified IANA that they should just have one set of numbers, and that those numbers should be 7 and 8. --Jari _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Nov 12 12:32:23 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA28899 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 12:32:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJyqZ-0002e7-3f for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 12:32:05 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hACHW3cM010166 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 12:32:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJyqY-0002dt-Vc for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 12:32:03 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA28888 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 12:31:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJyqX-0002qi-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 12:32:01 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJyqX-0002qf-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 12:32:01 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJyqX-0002dL-63; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 12:32:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AJypd-0002aH-Qp for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 12:31:07 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA28853 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 12:30:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJypc-0002pn-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 12:31:04 -0500 Received: from email10.etsi.org ([212.234.161.112] helo=email10.etsihq.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AJypb-0002mb-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 12:31:03 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [Mip6] IETF58 MIP6 slides URL Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 18:30:30 +0100 Message-ID: <4091553999CBE4409CC2B562152B5A3302060C80@email10.etsihq.org> Thread-Topic: [Mip6] IETF58 MIP6 slides URL Thread-Index: AcOoi5otZLRZSjtURoO3DZUk04GpqgAtRZaO From: =?Windows-1252?Q?Patrick_Ren=E9_Guillemin?= To: "T.J. Kniveton" Cc: , , "Maeva Petitjean" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Timothy, Dear mip6 participants, =20 mip6 meeting (current IETF 58 in Minneapolis) slide presentation http://www.mindspring.com/~bpatil/IETF58/MIP6/mip6_iop_sc58.pdf do not give the correct URL of "Central registration web page URL" and = this should be rectified asap in the pdf file. =20 The right URL is http://mip6.plugtests.org =20 I do regret that you couldn't show it to the participants, so I invite = them to have a look and register : =20 To particiapte in the Remote MIP6 Plugtests you must request for an = account =20 http://mip6.plugtests.org "Get an account" GIve Frist Name, Last Name, Company, E-mail address *and* and click on "accept" in the bottom of the form <> Click "I accept" to get an account=20 =20 The "bad" URL given in the slide = http://list.etsi.org/plugtests-mip6.html is the web link of the archive of the discussion conducted in the list =20 Rgds Patrick -----Original Message-----=20 From: T.J. Kniveton [mailto:tj@kniveton.com]=20 Sent: Tue 2003-11-11 22:36=20 To: Joe Lau=20 Cc: mip6@ietf.org; jlau@cup.hp.com=20 Subject: Re: [Mip6] IETF58 MIP6 slides URL =09 =09 That URL works fine for me... make sure you have a good connection and DNS is working. =09 Joe Lau wrote: =09 >I got "page not found" error when I tried to access >the following URL for the IETF 58 MIP6 slides. > >http://www.mindspring.com/~bpatil/IETF58/MIP6 > >Is the URL correct? > >Thanks. > >Joe > >_______________________________________________ >Mip6 mailing list >Mip6@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 >=20 > =09 =09 _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 =09 ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 19:33:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AK5Pz-0005zp-Vc for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 19:33:03 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAD0X3ht023043 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 19:33:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AK5Pz-0005za-Rj for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 19:33:03 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA19453 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 19:32:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AK5Py-0001yi-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 19:33:02 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AK5Px-0001ye-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 19:33:01 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AK5Px-0005xz-Gp; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 19:33:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AK5Oz-0005mz-Kj for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 19:32:01 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA19384; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 19:31:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AK5Ox-0001y3-00; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 19:31:59 -0500 Received: from key1.docomolabs-usa.com ([216.98.102.225] helo=fridge.docomolabs-usa.com ident=fwuser) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AK5Ow-0001xy-00; Wed, 12 Nov 2003 19:31:59 -0500 Message-ID: <00f601c3a97d$991aea70$85818182@dclkempt40> From: "James Kempf" To: , , , Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 16:32:17 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00EE_01C3A93A.899CD560" Subject: [Mip6] Minutes of Multiple Link Flows BAR BOF Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00EE_01C3A93A.899CD560 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Folks, Attached are the minutes of the multiple link flows BAR BOF. jak ------=_NextPart_000_00EE_01C3A93A.899CD560 Content-Type: text/plain; name="multilink-flows-bof-writeup.txt" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="multilink-flows-bof-writeup.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Introduction=0A= ------------=0A= =0A= This note describes an informal meeting held at IETF 58 on Monday where = the general topic of utilizing multiple links was discussed. Wireless = last hop links were the primary focus, since market introduction of = consumer devices with multiple wireless interfaces is pending, and = people can get the same now with laptops that have multiple wireless = interface cards.=0A= =0A= Single Logical Flow over Separate Physical Links/IP Addresses=0A= -------------------------------------------------------------=0A= =0A= This topic area concerned splitting a single logical flow over multiple = IP addresses, presumably to match multiple physical interfaces on the = device. This technique had been proposed by SCTP orignally as a way of = load balancing, and in other contexts for transport striping to achieve = higher throughput. Randy Steward talked about why this was taken out of = SCTP. In summary, although the sending host may utilize multiple = addresses for the receiving host, and although the the receiving host = might have those multiple addresses configured on multiple separate = physical interfaces, the traffic between the two might run over the = exact same physical path, and consequently utilizing two addresses won't = really provide any load balancing as far as the intervening network is = concerned. Problems include out of order packets, false retransmissions, = problems with congestion control variables, and timeouts. Performing = retransmission on one address for congestion detected on the other might = have the perverse effect of causing worse congestion. As a result, SCTP = now supports multiple links only for purposes of fault tolerance, = failing over to a new link if the old one goes down, and not load = balancing.=0A= =0A= The University of Deleware has been doing research on this topic and has = published some papers. Below is a short bibliography:=0A= =0A= http://www.cis.udel.edu/~iyengar/publications/2003.hotnets.iyengar.pdf=0A= =0A= Describes the problems with concurrent multilink transfer and proposes = some algorithms to fix the problems.=0A= =0A= http://www.cis.udel.edu/~amer/PEL/poc/pdf/ICON03-caro.pdf=0A= =0A= Shows that retransmit policies which try to utilize multiple paths often = result in worse performance.=0A= =0A= Moving Flows Between Mobile IP Care of Addresses=0A= ------------------------------------------------=0A= =0A= The idea behind this proposal is to allow movement of multiple flows = between different Mobile IP care of addresses depending on the = characteristics of the wireless links on which those addresses are = configured. The proposal seems most interesting near term for the MIP4 = WG in order to accommodate multiple interface devices in existing MIP4 = deployments, and longer term in the MIP6 WG as well as for mobile = networks in NEMO. This technique would not be performing link = aggregation since the paths for logical flows would be uniform, not = split. From the point of view of the SCTP experience, this seemed as if = it would not be a problem since end to end congestion control is being = performed on logical flows that traverse one path. It would, however, = hide the flow movement from the correspondent node, i.e. the = corresponding end point would not be involved in the decision about = which care of address to use. This idea has motivated a draft in the = MIP4 WG, draft-nomad-mobileip-filters-05.txt, which recommends = installing "filters" at the home agent to perform the redirection. The = filters would allow traffic of various types to be redirected to care of = addresses whose corresponding physical interfaces had particular = bandwidth and latency characteristics, for example, running video over a = broadband WLAN interface. In addition, it would help preserve home = addresses in MIP4 since the MN would only have a single home address. = Clearly, there is a potential end to end issue in not notifying the = correspondent node about the flow switching, but since the home agent is = essentiall performing a routing function, the situation is not much = different than a QoS router that switches a flow to a different = interface due to flow state set up by RSVP signaling. There is, of = course, the same scaling issue in the home agent as for RSVP, since the = home agent must maintain per flow and per care of address state, but the = scaling issue is restricted to just the home agent.=0A= =0A= If this proposal is accepted, there is an issue about which signaling = protocol to use with the home agent to tell it how to move the flows. = Mobile IP itself was suggested, QoS signaling protocols such as RSVP and = NSIS, SNMP, and COPS. Lately, the trend has been to not add additional = functions into Mobile IP, to keep it simple and dedicated strictly to = mobility, thus, AAA was separated out of MIP6, so the MIP protocol = itself might not be the best choice for the signaling protocol.=0A= =0A= Simulations and prototypes in realistic networks would also be of = interest, to see if any unanticipated problems crop up.=0A= =0A= Two specific problems were discussed besides the general problem. One = was the usefulness of multiple care of addresses for mobile networks. = NEMO is still studying the issue, and hasn't as yet worked through the = problem. The other was using RFC 3401 address privacy for IPv6. In this = scenerio, the mobile node has multiple care of addresses assigned to a = single interface, and would like to use them for privacy between the = mobile node and home agent. =0A= =0A= Next Steps=0A= ----------=0A= =0A= There was no concensus in the group about whether the problem was = specifically an issue for the MIP groups or whether it required = participation from other WGs. Since there are some proposals before the = MIP4 & MIP6 WGs currently, the MIP groups are the logical place to = start. Thomas Narten suggested coming up with a clear problem statement, = and Carsten Borman volunteered to talk with the group at Universitaet = Bremen who authored draft-nomad-mobileip-filters-05.txt about authoring = a clear problem statement for the MIP care of address case.=0A= =0A= =0A= Terminology=0A= -----------=0A= =0A= After the meeting, Carsten Borman and I discussed how to designate this = topic area. The meeting was advertised as "multilink flows" but that = doesn't capture the problem since it also implies logical flows over = multiple IP addresses, something that the SCTP experience has indicated = is problematic from a congestion control standpoint. The term "QoS = routing" came up during the meeting but that drags along a lot of = baggage. "Flow handoff" seems to capture the topic best, since the = intent is to hand off individual flows to care of addresses that have = the best characteristics for handling the flows. ------=_NextPart_000_00EE_01C3A93A.899CD560-- _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Nov 13 00:34:22 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA28905 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 00:34:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKA7I-0006nH-I4 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 00:34:05 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAD5Y4dA026074 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 00:34:04 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKA7I-0006mA-5E for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 00:34:04 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA28841 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 00:33:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKA7F-0006DR-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 00:34:01 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKA7F-0006DO-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 00:34:01 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKA7F-0006k6-Jr; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 00:34:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKA6K-0006h4-0P for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 00:33:04 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA28680 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 00:32:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKA6G-000698-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 00:33:00 -0500 Received: from manatick.foretec.com ([4.17.168.5] helo=manatick) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKA6E-00068T-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 00:32:58 -0500 Received: from rrba-165-249.telkomadsl.co.za ([165.165.165.249] helo=2mails299.com) by manatick with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1AKA6F-0001Uy-NM for mip6@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 00:33:00 -0500 From: "Mr. Duke C. Chippo." Reply-To: chippo4@uboot.com To: mip6@ietf.org Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 07:35:29 +0200 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6900 DM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [Mip6] URGENT Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable FROM Mr=2E Duke Chippo TEL 27 73-385-8069 FAX 27 72-720-1711 Dear =2C SEEKING FOR FINANCIAL INVESTMENT INFORMATION Zimbabwe formerly Rhodesia under the colonial rule gained independence in 1981 under the nationalist struggle for independence led by Mr=2E Robert Mugabe and late Joshua Nkomo=2E Under the white rule and since independence the minority whites that owned most of the farmlands in Zimbabwe have dominated agriculture=2E The aborigines believe that they are still slaves in their own land if they continue to work the lands for their whites masters even after independence=2E Robert Mugabe as the black Moses who led his people to freedom has vowed to revoke ownership of the white owned farms and redistribute the lands to the landless blacks=2E This move he said is necessary to redress the imbalance of the colonial era=2E For the struggle for freedom=2C to affect this initiative the government has amended its land acquisition laws and policies last few months=2C which gave about 3000 white Zimbabwean farmers a 45-day quit notice to leave their lands to the government=2E My family and I are caught up in this web of land politics=2C which also led to the death of our father=2E We have seen reforms after reforms by the government of Mugabe and we are fed up with it=2E Our economy is in shambles and it is just not profitable and safe enough for us to remain in Zimbabwe=2E We have decided to relocate our farm to Swaziland=2C a neighboring country=2C where we have acquired lands=2E Our capital base is in South Africa where we are temporarily living pending such time logistics would be ready for full-scale operation in Swaziland=2E Bearing in mind that Mr=2E Thabo Mbeki =28South African president=29 and his government are playing =93Russian roulette=94 over the Zimbabwean land crisis=2C every effort has begun in earnest to move our capital base to a stable country where it can be safer=2E With a capital base of US$25=2E5Million=2C there is a great deal of secrecy involved to avoid the piercing eyes and smelling noses of both the governments of Zimbabwe and South Africa=2E We are therefore contacting you so you can use a magnificent business technique to transfer this financial treasure out of South Africa=2E This money is presently deposited confidentially WITH A security Company here in South Africa=2E We mapped out 25% of the gross sum as due commission for your expected honest assistance in executing the successful transfer of this money out of South Africa=2C for our family investments Please=2C call us or fax us immediately if you are interested=2C so we can discuss further while we hold this correspondence in the strictest confidence=2E Thanks and God bless you=2E Yours truly=2C Mr=2E Duke Chippo=2E =28For the family=29 _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Nov 13 01:29:21 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA00589 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 01:29:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKAyT-0001FX-HL for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 01:29:02 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAD6T1Rh004802 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 01:29:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKAyT-0001FN-Cn for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 01:29:01 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA00579 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 01:28:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKAyQ-000730-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 01:28:58 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKAyQ-00072x-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 01:28:58 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKAyS-0001Et-5s; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 01:29:00 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKAyD-0001Ec-8f for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 01:28:45 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA00571 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 01:28:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKAyA-00072o-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 01:28:42 -0500 Received: from alpha9.its.monash.edu.au ([130.194.1.9]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKAy9-00072l-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 01:28:41 -0500 Received: from localhost ([130.194.13.82]) by vaxh.its.monash.edu.au (PMDF V5.2-31 #39306) with ESMTP id <01L2ZOJHQ9QI8WZG2Y@vaxh.its.monash.edu.au> for mip6@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 17:15:27 +1100 Received: from thwack.its.monash.edu.au (localhost.its.monash.edu.au [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with ESMTP id 071A8318002 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 17:15:27 +1100 (EST) Received: from mail1.monash.edu.au (bigted.its.monash.edu.au [130.194.11.60]) by thwack.its.monash.edu.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED30F2DC005 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 17:15:26 +1100 (EST) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 17:15:26 +1100 From: Gregory Daley To: mip6@ietf.org Message-id: <2eeef72f09bc.2f09bc2eeef7@mail1.monash.edu.au> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Netscape Webmail Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-language: en Content-disposition: inline Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Subject: [Mip6] Testing Binding Latency with Return Routability and Home Binding Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I hope this is not just saying the obvious now after Jari's mail posting, but I'd started before I read his post (so I think I'll continue anyway). If this contributes to the RO hints document, then that would be good. According to MIPv6, the host which wants to do RO MUST first perform Return Routability by sending HoTI and CoTI messages to the CN. The CoTI message has a source of the MN's CoA and is sent directly, without MIPv6 tunneling to the CN. The CN responds to this packet by sending directly to the MN solicits a response packet called a CoT, which contains a cookie. A message called the Home Test Initiation (HoTI) is reverse tunnelled by the MN to its HA. When this is sent to a CN, the CN responds with a Home Test (HoT) sent to the MN's Home Address. This packet is therefore tunnelled to the MN. Binding signalling is performed with the sequence of CoTI/CoT exchange and then sending a BU to the CN, containing a cookie formed from data in the CoT and HoT. The binding latency therefore is approximately 1.5 * RTT of the CoTI/CoT exchange (The CoT/I RTT is represented as R). Similarly, the binding latency for Home Agent Bindings is measurable using the delay before receiving the binding Ack (This latency is represented by B) The time for packets to home tunneled to the CN to round trip may be checked using the HOT/I exchange (This latency is represented as H). If H is < min [ maximum acceptable RTTs for MN-CN comms] AND (0.5 * B) < (1.5 * R) Then performing RO may not be necessary. In this case, the latency is sufficiently low, and the packet loss from reverse tunneling through the HA is lower than from using Route optimization. This assumes similar latency for the uplink as the downlink. Also, increased RTT for packets on the home tunneled link may cause feedback for upper protocol layers. If this degrades performance, it may be sufficient to override this decision and use RO anyway. While there may be some variation in the RTT numbers retrieved by measuring HoT/I CoT/I and BU/BAck, These numbers can be considered indicative if the MN moves locally within a domain. Periodic re-probing with CoT/I and HoT/I at rates described in MIPv6, and measuring BU/BAck latency at re-binding may be sufficient to provide updated information about these delays. Of course there is a lot of guesstimation in this, but it seems fairly simple. _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Nov 13 04:39:35 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA18336 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 04:39:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKDwa-0005wa-Rz for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 04:39:16 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAD9dGMn022749 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 04:39:16 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKDwU-0005tf-VP for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 04:39:11 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA18318 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 04:38:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKDwR-0001f7-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 04:39:07 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKDwR-0001f1-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 04:39:07 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKDwP-0005s5-Tv; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 04:39:05 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKDvg-0005n0-HD for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 04:38:20 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA18277 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 04:38:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKDvd-0001eO-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 04:38:17 -0500 Received: from manatick.foretec.com ([4.17.168.5] helo=manatick) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKDvc-0001eL-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 04:38:16 -0500 Received: from [216.185.65.90] (helo=192.168.3.40) by manatick with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1AKDvQ-0000JQ-28 for mip6@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 04:38:08 -0500 From: "Tafa Momoh" To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0034_01C221EC.6C64F7B0" Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 01:38:08 -0800 Reply-To: "Tafa Momoh" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-Id: Subject: [Mip6] Urgent Assistance Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , ------=_NextPart_000_0034_01C221EC.6C64F7B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Mr. Tafa Momoh Habinson International Trust Bank PLC Plot 190, Ajose Adeogun Street, Victoria Island, Lagos. ATTN: MD/CEO I am Mr. James Okoro Director, Foreign Operations with Habinson International Trust Bank, Victoria Island Branch, Lagos, Nigeria. I have an urgent and very profitable business proposition for you that should be handled with extreme confidentiality. On January 6,1998 a Foreign Oil Consultant and contractor with the Nigerian National Petroleum Corporation (NNPC) Mr. James Herbert by name made a numbered time Fixed Deposit for twelve calendar months valued at US$10.6M (Ten Million, Six Hundred United States Dollars Only) in my branch. Upon maturity I sent a routine notification in accordance with the Bank policy to his forwarding address but got no reply. After a month we sent a reminder and finally we discovered from his contract employers the Nigerian National Petroleum Corporation (NNPC) that Mr. James Herbert died from an automobile accident. On further investigation, we found out that he died without making a Will and all attempts to trace his next of kin was fruitless. I therefore made further investigations and discovered that Mr. James Herbert did not declare any next of kin or relations in all his official documents including his Bank Deposit paperwork in my Bank. This sum of US$10.6M has been carefully moved out of my bank to a Security Company in Europe for safekeeping. No one will ever come forward to claim it and according to Nigerian Law, at the expiration of 5 years the money will revert to the ownership of the Nigerian Government if nobody applies to claim the fund. This prompted us to contact you.We will like to front you as the next of kin of our late client thereby making you the legal beneficiary of the sum of $38.6 million U.S Dollars that is presently in a Security Company in Europe. I contacted you because it is against our code of ethics to own and operate foreign accounts and your assistance would be needed to claim the money in the Security Company in Europe. We have unanimously agreed that 25% of the entire sum would be for you if you agree to take part in this profitable transaction,70% for me and 2 of my colleagues while the remaining 5% would be used to pay back the expenses that may be incurred during the course of the transaction by both parties after the fund has been claimed and lodged in your account. In the event that you are genuinely interested in the transaction,the following information would be needed from you to expedite action. 1) Your Full Name and Address that would be used to establish you as the next of kin of our late client thereby making you the legal beneficiary of the fund. This would ensure that the Security Company in Europe releases the Consignment/Fund to you. 2) Your Private Mobile,Telphone and Fax numbers where you can be reached at all time because this transaction entails constant communication. The transaction is 100% risk free as all modalities has been perfected to ensure the hitch free success of the transaction. If you are interested, send the requested information via email number stated below so that we can proceed. I await your response urgently. Regards, Mr.Tafa Momoh Director, Foreign Operations With best regards, Tafa Momoh momoh@ureach.com ------=_NextPart_000_0034_01C221EC.6C64F7B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" E-mail message content
Mr. Tafa Momoh
Habinson International Trust Bank PLC
Plot 190, Ajose Adeogun Street,
Victoria Island, Lagos.
 
 
ATTN: MD/CEO
 
I am  Mr. James Okoro Director, Foreign Operations
with Habinson International Trust Bank,
Victoria Island Branch, Lagos,  Nigeria.
 
I have an urgent and very profitable business
proposition for you that should be handled with
extreme confidentiality.
 
On January 6,1998 a Foreign Oil Consultant and
contractor with the Nigerian National Petroleum
Corporation (NNPC) Mr. James Herbert by name made a
numbered time Fixed Deposit for twelve calendar months
valued at US$10.6M (Ten Million, Six Hundred
United States Dollars Only) in my branch.
 
Upon maturity I sent a routine notification in
accordance with the Bank policy to his forwarding
address but got no reply.
 
After a month we sent a reminder and finally we
discovered from his contract employers the Nigerian
National Petroleum Corporation (NNPC) that Mr. James
Herbert died from an automobile accident.
 
On further investigation, we found out that he died
without making a Will and all attempts to trace his
next of kin was fruitless. I therefore made further
investigations and discovered that Mr. James Herbert
did not declare any next of kin or relations in all
his official documents including his Bank Deposit
paperwork in my Bank.
 
This sum of US$10.6M has been carefully  moved out of
my bank to a Security Company in Europe for
safekeeping.
 
No one will ever come forward to claim it and
according to Nigerian Law, at the expiration of 5
years the money will revert to the ownership of the
Nigerian Government if nobody applies to claim the
fund.
 
This prompted us to contact you.We will like to front
you as the next of kin of our late client thereby
making you the legal beneficiary of the sum of $38.6
million U.S Dollars that is presently in a Security
Company in Europe.
 
I contacted you because it is against our code of
ethics to own and operate foreign accounts and your
assistance would be needed to claim the money in the
Security Company in Europe.
 
We have unanimously agreed that 25% of the entire sum
would be for you if you agree to take part in this
profitable transaction,70% for me and 2 of my
colleagues while the remaining 5% would be used to pay
back the expenses that may be incurred during the
course of the transaction by both parties after the
fund has been claimed and lodged in your account.
 
In the event that you are genuinely interested in the
transaction,the following information would be needed
from you to expedite action.
 
1) Your Full Name and Address that would be used to
establish you as the next of kin of our late client
thereby making you the legal beneficiary of the fund.
This would ensure that the Security Company in Europe
releases the Consignment/Fund to you.
 
2) Your Private Mobile,Telphone and Fax numbers where
you can be reached at all time because this
transaction entails constant communication.
 
 
The transaction is 100% risk free as all modalities
has been perfected to ensure the hitch free success of
the transaction.
 
If you are interested, send the requested information
via email number stated below so that we can proceed.     
 
 
I await your response urgently.
 
Regards,
 
Mr.Tafa Momoh
Director, Foreign Operations
 
With best regards,
Tafa Momoh
momoh@ureach.com
 
 
 
 ------=_NextPart_000_0034_01C221EC.6C64F7B0-- _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Nov 13 10:45:24 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA03886 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 10:45:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKJec-0005iW-Tt for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 10:45:06 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hADFj6sA021972 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 10:45:06 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKJec-0005iF-M8 for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 10:45:06 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA03858 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 10:44:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKJea-0007Fg-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 10:45:04 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKJeZ-0007Fd-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 10:45:03 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKJeY-0005fF-Ot; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 10:45:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKJeG-0005e9-Kg for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 10:44:44 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA03799 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 10:44:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKJeD-0007EN-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 10:44:41 -0500 Received: from clarinet.u-strasbg.fr ([130.79.90.157]) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKJeB-0007EB-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 10:44:39 -0500 Received: (qmail 27636 invoked for bounce); 13 Nov 2003 15:44:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO clarinet.u-strasbg.fr) (montavont@unknown) by unknown with RC4-MD5 encrypted SMTP; 13 Nov 2003 15:44:48 -0000 Message-ID: <3FB3A6E0.3050503@clarinet.u-strasbg.fr> Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 16:44:32 +0100 From: Nicolas Montavont User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030723 Thunderbird/0.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: James Kempf CC: nemo@ietf.org, mip4@ietf.org, mip6@ietf.org, mipshop@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Mip6] Minutes of Multiple Link Flows BAR BOF References: <00f601c3a97d$991aea70$85818182@dclkempt40> In-Reply-To: <00f601c3a97d$991aea70$85818182@dclkempt40> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Thank you James for this good minutes of our meeting. It clearly=20 clarifies things and help to move forward. However, I have to raise a point. We (Ryuji, Thierry, Thomas and me)=20 began to write a problem statement draft in MIP6 WG=20 (draft-montavont-multihoming-pb-statement-00) and I think that it can be = the starting point of a pb statement document. Following the=20 presentation of this draft at the MIP6 meeting, and from some comments=20 in the mailing list, we receive valuable feedback for the evolution of=20 this draft. Also, the bar bof gives us other ideas to enhance this docume= nt. So I think that a new version of this draft can constitute the pb=20 statement currently required to move forward on the multihoming. It is=20 not necessary to duplicate the efforts. Nicolas James Kempf wrote: >Folks, > >Attached are the minutes of the multiple link flows BAR BOF. > > jak > >------------------------------------------------------------------------= > >Introduction >------------ > >This note describes an informal meeting held at IETF 58 on Monday where = the general topic of utilizing multiple links was discussed. Wireless las= t hop links were the primary focus, since market introduction of consumer= devices with multiple wireless interfaces is pending, and people can get= the same now with laptops that have multiple wireless interface cards. > >Single Logical Flow over Separate Physical Links/IP Addresses >------------------------------------------------------------- > >This topic area concerned splitting a single logical flow over multiple = IP addresses, presumably to match multiple physical interfaces on the dev= ice. This technique had been proposed by SCTP orignally as a way of load = balancing, and in other contexts for transport striping to achieve higher= throughput. Randy Steward talked about why this was taken out of SCTP. I= n summary, although the sending host may utilize multiple addresses for t= he receiving host, and although the the receiving host might have those m= ultiple addresses configured on multiple separate physical interfaces, th= e traffic between the two might run over the exact same physical path, an= d consequently utilizing two addresses won't really provide any load bala= ncing as far as the intervening network is concerned. Problems include ou= t of order packets, false retransmissions, problems with congestion contr= ol variables, and timeouts. Performing retransmission on one address for = congestion detected on the other might have the perverse effect of causin= g worse congestion. As a result, SCTP now supports multiple links only fo= r purposes of fault tolerance, failing over to a new link if the old one = goes down, and not load balancing. > >The University of Deleware has been doing research on this topic and has= published some papers. Below is a short bibliography: > >http://www.cis.udel.edu/~iyengar/publications/2003.hotnets.iyengar.pdf > >Describes the problems with concurrent multilink transfer and proposes s= ome algorithms to fix the problems. > >http://www.cis.udel.edu/~amer/PEL/poc/pdf/ICON03-caro.pdf > >Shows that retransmit policies which try to utilize multiple paths often= result in worse performance. > >Moving Flows Between Mobile IP Care of Addresses >------------------------------------------------ > >The idea behind this proposal is to allow movement of multiple flows bet= ween different Mobile IP care of addresses depending on the characteristi= cs of the wireless links on which those addresses are configured. The pro= posal seems most interesting near term for the MIP4 WG in order to accomm= odate multiple interface devices in existing MIP4 deployments, and longer= term in the MIP6 WG as well as for mobile networks in NEMO. This techniq= ue would not be performing link aggregation since the paths for logical f= lows would be uniform, not split. From the point of view of the SCTP expe= rience, this seemed as if it would not be a problem since end to end cong= estion control is being performed on logical flows that traverse one path= =2E It would, however, hide the flow movement from the correspondent node= , i.e. the corresponding end point would not be involved in the decision = about which care of address to use. This idea has motivated a draft in th= e MIP4 WG, draft-nomad-mobileip-filters-05.txt, which recommends installi= ng "filters" at the home agent to perform the redirection. The filters wo= uld allow traffic of various types to be redirected to care of addresses = whose corresponding physical interfaces had particular bandwidth and late= ncy characteristics, for example, running video over a broadband WLAN int= erface. In addition, it would help preserve home addresses in MIP4 since = the MN would only have a single home address. Clearly, there is a potenti= al end to end issue in not notifying the correspondent node about the flo= w switching, but since the home agent is essentiall performing a routing = function, the situation is not much different than a QoS router that swit= ches a flow to a different interface due to flow state set up by RSVP sig= naling. There is, of course, the same scaling issue in the home agent as = for RSVP, since the home agent must maintain per flow and per care of add= ress state, but the scaling issue is restricted to just the home agent. > >If this proposal is accepted, there is an issue about which signaling pr= otocol to use with the home agent to tell it how to move the flows. Mobil= e IP itself was suggested, QoS signaling protocols such as RSVP and NSIS,= SNMP, and COPS. Lately, the trend has been to not add additional functio= ns into Mobile IP, to keep it simple and dedicated strictly to mobility, = thus, AAA was separated out of MIP6, so the MIP protocol itself might not= be the best choice for the signaling protocol. > >Simulations and prototypes in realistic networks would also be of intere= st, to see if any unanticipated problems crop up. > >Two specific problems were discussed besides the general problem. One wa= s the usefulness of multiple care of addresses for mobile networks. NEMO = is still studying the issue, and hasn't as yet worked through the problem= =2E The other was using RFC 3401 address privacy for IPv6. In this scener= io, the mobile node has multiple care of addresses assigned to a single i= nterface, and would like to use them for privacy between the mobile node = and home agent.=20 > >Next Steps >---------- > >There was no concensus in the group about whether the problem was specif= ically an issue for the MIP groups or whether it required participation f= rom other WGs. Since there are some proposals before the MIP4 & MIP6 WGs = currently, the MIP groups are the logical place to start. Thomas Narten s= uggested coming up with a clear problem statement, and Carsten Borman vol= unteered to talk with the group at Universitaet Bremen who authored draft= -nomad-mobileip-filters-05.txt about authoring a clear problem statement = for the MIP care of address case. > > >Terminology >----------- > >After the meeting, Carsten Borman and I discussed how to designate this = topic area. The meeting was advertised as "multilink flows" but that does= n't capture the problem since it also implies logical flows over multiple= IP addresses, something that the SCTP experience has indicated is proble= matic from a congestion control standpoint. The term "QoS routing" came u= p during the meeting but that drags along a lot of baggage. "Flow handoff= " seems to capture the topic best, since the intent is to hand off indivi= dual flows to care of addresses that have the best characteristics for ha= ndling the flows. > _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Nov 13 11:28:25 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA05968 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 11:28:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKKKE-0000uU-Kz for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 11:28:06 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hADGS6sm003496 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 11:28:06 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKKKE-0000uJ-F8 for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 11:28:06 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA05907 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 11:27:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKKKD-0000DE-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 11:28:05 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKKKC-0000D8-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 11:28:04 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKKK9-0000rs-98; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 11:28:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKKJm-0000qd-UG for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 11:27:38 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA05884; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 11:27:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKKJl-0000Co-00; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 11:27:37 -0500 Received: from key1.docomolabs-usa.com ([216.98.102.225] helo=fridge.docomolabs-usa.com ident=fwuser) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKKJl-0000CV-00; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 11:27:37 -0500 Message-ID: <02f701c3aa03$07d095c0$85818182@dclkempt40> From: "James Kempf" To: "Nicolas Montavont" Cc: , References: <00f601c3a97d$991aea70$85818182@dclkempt40> <3FB3A6E0.3050503@clarinet.u-strasbg.fr> Subject: Re: [Mip6] Minutes of Multiple Link Flows BAR BOF Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 08:26:49 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Nicolas, > Thank you James for this good minutes of our meeting. It clearly > clarifies things and help to move forward. > > However, I have to raise a point. We (Ryuji, Thierry, Thomas and me) > began to write a problem statement draft in MIP6 WG > (draft-montavont-multihoming-pb-statement-00) and I think that it can be > the starting point of a pb statement document. Following the > presentation of this draft at the MIP6 meeting, and from some comments > in the mailing list, we receive valuable feedback for the evolution of > this draft. Also, the bar bof gives us other ideas to enhance this document. > > So I think that a new version of this draft can constitute the pb > statement currently required to move forward on the multihoming. It is > not necessary to duplicate the efforts. > Sorry I missed this in the minutes. An update of your draft based on list feedback and discussion at the BAR BOF would certainly be valuable. I think the U. Bremen folks are primarily interested in MIP4 as that is where their prototype was done, and I believe the primary near term deployment interest is there, due to the possiblity of multiinterface laptops and pending release of multi-interface phones. However, I think it might make some sense for you and they to combine efforts if you both agree there would be some common points in the problem statement between MIP4 and MIP6. Since MIP4 has some immediate deployment interest, it might be most approprate to work on a general problem statement there first, with review from the MIP6 group, then later work on the MIP6 specific issues in the MIP6 group. I'd suggest contacting the WG chairs of MIP4 and MIP6 about how to proceed, and definitely talking with Carsten and U. Bremen folks about the possibility of combining efforts. jak _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Nov 13 12:47:22 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA10414 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 12:47:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKLYe-000877-Io for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 12:47:04 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hADHl4H7031185 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 12:47:04 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKLYe-00086u-Ds for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 12:47:04 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA10386 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 12:46:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKLYc-0001sI-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 12:47:02 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKLYc-0001sF-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 12:47:02 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKLYb-00085o-Jr; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 12:47:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKLYa-00085K-0A for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 12:47:00 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA10374 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 12:46:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKLYW-0001s0-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 12:46:56 -0500 Received: from p2.piuha.net ([131.160.192.2]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKLYW-0001rx-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 12:46:56 -0500 Received: from piuha.net (p4.piuha.net [131.160.192.4]) by p2.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 250EC6A90A for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 19:46:51 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <3FB3B155.7070404@kolumbus.fi> Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:29:09 +0200 From: Jari Arkko User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20030225 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: mip6@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Mip6] questions and comments on the haha draft Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I read the draft on the way here to Minneapolis, and now found the time to write this e-mail. I apologize if these issues have been discussed before, I have not read the long thread related to this draft on the mailing list... Here are the questions and comments: Substantive: - Section 3. Given that current mobile ipv6 security mechanisms require specific configuration for home addresses, home agents need some configuation per prefix / mobile node combination. As a result, it might be sufficient even if HAHA did not exchange prefix information between the home agents. - Section 3, trigger & dhaad. I'm not sure I understand why we need to (a) send the new home agent's address in the switch request, and then do dhaad. Dhaad does give you more than the addresses of the home agents, and their priority order. But the address and the highest priority appears to be covered in the switch request already, no? - Section 4.1.2, can you include exactly one PI option, or also 0...N? 0..N would make more sense, imho. - I wonder what the reason was behind making the BIR message an ICMP instead of MH. I'm not suggesting it should be MH, just curious about the thought process that led to this particular choice. - Section 4.2.[12]. It seems that in your protocol, the Binding Information Reply message is not always solicited. How about naming the messages to Binding Information Solicitation (BIS) and Binding Information Advertisement (BIA)? - Section 7.2. I don't understand whether you require the previous registration to be deleted when moving to another home agent. ANd if you do, what is the sequence of events? - The document needs a better explanation of how the routing is expected to work. I'm not sure I understand how you intend multiple places to get the same packets. Or I may understand that in the case of NEMO, but not with basic MIPv6. Editorial: - There's some confusion in the document in the use of the term node, host, and router. E.g. section 3 appears to use mobile router term when mobile node would appear to be a better suited term for the context. - In section 3, last paragraph. One sentence says that the intercepted packets are sent either to the mn or the primary ha, another sentence says the mobile node receives tunneled packets from _the_ home agent. - s/filed/field/g - Section 4.1.1, s/... other Home Agents/... another home agent/ - Section 4.2.3, s/contain the valid global/contain a valid global/ - Section 4.3.1 last paragraph has some missing words. - The document sometimes talks about NEMO and basic MIPv6 as if NEMO did not employ MIPv6. Suggest using terms like "for a mobile host, ... for a mobile router ..." - Section 11, add to the end of the last sentence "related to them". --Jari _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Nov 13 13:42:22 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA12100 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 13:42:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKMPr-000339-1b for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 13:42:03 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hADIg2Jd011717 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 13:42:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKMPq-00032u-RM for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 13:42:02 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA12050 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 13:41:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKMPo-0002W3-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 13:42:00 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKMPo-0002W0-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 13:42:00 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKMPo-00032H-Qn; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 13:42:00 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKMOr-000311-77 for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 13:41:01 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA11969 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 13:40:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKMOo-0002Uw-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 13:40:58 -0500 Received: from mail-gw1.york.ac.uk ([144.32.128.246]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKMOo-0002UB-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 13:40:58 -0500 Received: from grouse (grouse.ohm.york.ac.uk [144.32.137.104]) by mail-gw1.york.ac.uk (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hADIeP3B001279 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:40:25 GMT Message-ID: <004401c3aa15$ecd2d0e0$68892090@grouse> From: "Jee J.Z." To: Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:42:43 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-York-MailScanner: Found to be clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Mip6] A Question on Mobile IPv6 -- Alternate Care-of Address option Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear all, May I ask a question on MIPv6: About the Alternate Care-of Address option, in 5.2.6 (draft-ietf-mobileip-ipv6-24) it reads: "...However, a different care-of address MAY be specified by including an Alternate Care-of Address mobility option in the Binding Update (see Section 6.2.5). When such a message is sent to the correspondent node and the return routability procedure is used as the authorization method, the Care-of Test Init and Care-of Test messages MUST have been performed for the address in the Alternate Care-of Address option (not the Source Address)...." And in 6.2.5 it reads: "...Normally, a Binding Update specifies the desired care-of address in the Source Address field of the IPv6 header. However, this is not possible in some cases, such as when the mobile node wishes to indicate a care-of address which it cannot use as a topologically correct source address (Section 6.1.7 and Section 11.7.2) or when the used security mechanism does not protect the IPv6 header (Section 11.7.1)...." Since the Alternate Care-of Address is only valid in Binding Update message, how can the Correspondent Node know this alternate Care-of Address when performing return routability procedure? Thanks in advance, Jee _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Nov 13 14:15:26 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA13652 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 14:15:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKMvq-0005ZU-S7 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 14:15:07 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hADJF6iR021410 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 14:15:06 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKMvp-0005Z6-AW for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 14:15:05 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA13637 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 14:14:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKMvm-00039W-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 14:15:02 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKMvm-00039T-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 14:15:02 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKMvn-0005YS-9Z; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 14:15:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKMvh-0005Xf-KF for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 14:14:57 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA13622 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 14:14:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKMvf-00038t-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 14:14:55 -0500 Received: from shaku.sfc.wide.ad.jp ([203.178.143.49]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKMve-00038k-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 14:14:54 -0500 Received: from [130.129.135.234] (dyn135-234.ietf58.ietf.org [130.129.135.234]) (authenticated bits=0) by shaku.sfc.wide.ad.jp (8.12.10/8.12.0) with ESMTP id hADJEk4v005980; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 04:14:51 +0900 Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 04:14:52 +0900 From: Ryuji Wakikawa To: Jari Arkko Subject: Re: [Mip6] questions and comments on the haha draft Cc: mip6@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <3FB3B155.7070404@kolumbus.fi> References: <3FB3B155.7070404@kolumbus.fi> Message-Id: <20031114035407.182C.RYUJI@sfc.wide.ad.jp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Becky! ver. 2.06.02 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Jari thanks for detailed comments. please find my answer inline. > I read the draft on the way here to Minneapolis, and now > found the time to write this e-mail. I apologize if > these issues have been discussed before, I have not > read the long thread related to this draft on the > mailing list... > > Here are the questions and comments: > > Substantive: > > - Section 3. Given that current mobile ipv6 security > mechanisms require specific configuration for home > addresses, home agents need some configuation per > prefix / mobile node combination. As a result, it > might be sufficient even if HAHA did not exchange > prefix information between the home agents. Could you elaborate a little fuhrer, I don't think I get your point. > - Section 3, trigger & dhaad. I'm not sure I understand > why we need to (a) send the new home agent's address > in the switch request, and then do dhaad. Dhaad does > give you more than the addresses of the home agents, > and their priority order. But the address and the highest > priority appears to be covered in the switch request > already, no? The address in the switch request is useful when a home agent want a mobile node to change the primary home agent explicitly The current mip6 spec does not guarantee that MN always selects the highest priority home agent. (MN may select the home agent randomly) > - Section 4.1.2, can you include exactly one PI option, > or also 0...N? 0..N would make more sense, imho. yes, I agree. > - I wonder what the reason was behind making the BIR message > an ICMP instead of MH. I'm not suggesting it should be > MH, just curious about the thought process that led > to this particular choice. BIR message is defined as MH. > - Section 4.2.[12]. It seems that in your protocol, the > Binding Information Reply message is not always solicited. > How about naming the messages to Binding Information Solicitation > (BIS) and Binding Information Advertisement (BIA)? OK. > - Section 7.2. I don't understand whether you require > the previous registration to be deleted when moving to > another home agent. ANd if you do, what is the sequence > of events? deregistration is not mandate. The home agent which receives BU just updates the binding at the other home agents since binding is maintained at all home agents. On the other hand, if only single home agent is activated, then need some scheme to guarantee the binding uniqueness. > - The document needs a better explanation of how the > routing is expected to work. I'm not sure I understand > how you intend multiple places to get the same packets. > Or I may understand that in the case of NEMO, but not with > basic MIPv6. I will add more explanation how to distribute home agents. > Editorial: > > - There's some confusion in the document in the use > of the term node, host, and router. E.g. section 3 > appears to use mobile router term when mobile node > would appear to be a better suited term for the > context. Yes, I already noticed that the current draft mixed up mobile node and mobile router. > - In section 3, last paragraph. One sentence says that > the intercepted packets are sent either to the mn or > the primary ha, another sentence says the mobile node > receives tunneled packets from _the_ home agent. > > - s/filed/field/g > > - Section 4.1.1, s/... other Home Agents/... another home agent/ > > - Section 4.2.3, s/contain the valid global/contain a valid global/ > > - Section 4.3.1 last paragraph has some missing words. > > - The document sometimes talks about NEMO and basic MIPv6 as > if NEMO did not employ MIPv6. Suggest using terms like > "for a mobile host, ... for a mobile router ..." > > - Section 11, add to the end of the last sentence "related to > them". We will fix these, too. thanks, ryuji _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Nov 13 14:58:22 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA15616 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 14:58:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKNbP-0000Sj-Dt for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 14:58:04 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hADJw35I001775 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 14:58:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKNbP-0000SY-7q for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 14:58:03 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA15606 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 14:57:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKNbM-0003t3-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 14:58:00 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKNbL-0003sz-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 14:58:00 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKNbN-0000Qp-LY; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 14:58:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKNaa-0000P4-07 for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 14:57:12 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA15551 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 14:56:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKNaW-0003qy-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 14:57:09 -0500 Received: from alpha9.its.monash.edu.au ([130.194.1.9]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKNaW-0003qZ-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 14:57:08 -0500 Received: from localhost ([130.194.13.85]) by vaxh.its.monash.edu.au (PMDF V5.2-31 #39306) with ESMTP id <01L30H7TA1LO8WZHBV@vaxh.its.monash.edu.au> for mip6@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 06:56:47 +1100 Received: from broink.its.monash.edu.au (localhost.its.monash.edu.au [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FC85158002; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 06:56:47 +1100 (EST) Received: from mail1.monash.edu.au (bigted.its.monash.edu.au [130.194.11.60]) by broink.its.monash.edu.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1149C120002; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 06:56:47 +1100 (EST) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 06:56:47 +1100 From: Gregory Daley Subject: Re: [Mip6] A Question on Mobile IPv6 -- Alternate Care-of Address option To: "Jee J.Z." Cc: mip6@ietf.org Message-id: <3171ee319d60.319d603171ee@mail1.monash.edu.au> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Netscape Webmail Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-language: en Content-disposition: inline Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Dear Jee, ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jee J.Z." Date: Friday, November 14, 2003 5:42 am Subject: [Mip6] A Question on Mobile IPv6 -- Alternate Care-of Address option > Dear all, > > May I ask a question on MIPv6: > > About the Alternate Care-of Address option, in 5.2.6 > (draft-ietf-mobileip-ipv6-24) it reads: > > "...However, a different care-of address MAY be specified by > including an > Alternate Care-of Address mobility option in the Binding Update > (see Section > 6.2.5). When such a message is sent to the correspondent node and the > return routability procedure is used as the authorization method, the > Care-of Test Init and Care-of Test messages MUST have been > performed for the > address in the Alternate Care-of Address option (not the Source > Address)...." > > And in 6.2.5 it reads: > > "...Normally, a Binding Update specifies the desired care-of > address in the > Source Address field of the IPv6 header. However, this is not > possible in > some cases, such as when the mobile node wishes to indicate a care-of > address which it cannot use as a topologically correct source address > (Section 6.1.7 and Section 11.7.2) or when the used security > mechanism does > not protect the IPv6 header (Section 11.7.1)...." > > Since the Alternate Care-of Address is only valid in Binding > Update message, > how can the Correspondent Node know this alternate Care-of Address > whenperforming return routability procedure? > HMIPv6 uses this option. Also, If a host already has a currently performed return routability procedure for a CoA (for example, it has decided to change back to a previously visited network) it may desire to perform the BU before it leaves in order to reduce handover latency. I'm not sure how realistic this scenario is, but in this case, an Alternative CoA is required. I'm not sure if anyone except HMIPv6 uses this option in reality though. Greg _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Nov 13 15:24:24 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA18465 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:24:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKO0a-0003OI-71 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:24:04 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hADKO4TC013033 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:24:04 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKO0Z-0003O4-U2 for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:24:03 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA18359 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:23:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKO0Y-0004Su-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:24:02 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKO0X-0004Sq-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:24:01 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKO0X-0003N2-N0; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:24:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKNzi-0003Jz-CM for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:23:10 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA18285 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:22:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKNzg-0004Qc-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:23:08 -0500 Received: from clarinet.u-strasbg.fr ([130.79.90.157]) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKNzT-0004QL-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:22:55 -0500 Received: (qmail 29365 invoked for bounce); 13 Nov 2003 20:23:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO clarinet.u-strasbg.fr) (montavont@unknown) by unknown with RC4-MD5 encrypted SMTP; 13 Nov 2003 20:23:02 -0000 Message-ID: <3FB3E814.4020104@clarinet.u-strasbg.fr> Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 21:22:44 +0100 From: Nicolas Montavont User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030723 Thunderbird/0.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Tobias_K=FCfner?= , mip6@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Mip6] Question on draft-montavont-mobileip-multihoming-pb-statement References: <002801c3a483$7321eca0$4b47038d@tm.unikarlsruhe.de> In-Reply-To: <002801c3a483$7321eca0$4b47038d@tm.unikarlsruhe.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ietf.org id PAA18286 Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Tobias, Thank you for your comments, and please apology for the delay of this rep= ly. Please find some answers inline. Tobias K=FCfner wrote: >Dear authors, > >I read your draft and followed your recent discussion=20 >about multihomed MNs on the mailing list. > >Anyhow, I'm not sure whether I understand your taxonomy, > Yes, this is one of our todo. We will explain our taxonomy in the next=20 revision of the draft. >especially scenario 6 and 7, where there's a MN with >two or more interfaces but only one HoA (1,*,n). > >What happens when this MN is at home? > First of all, the taxonomy does not give how the MN is currently=20 connected to the network (maybe it's needed). For some scenarios, it is=20 implicit, but for most of them, it is not given. Do you think that it=20 would be interesting to consider how the MN is connected to the network=20 (I mean which interface is connected at home and which is not) So, in scenario 6, it is not implicitly said whether the MN is connected=20 to its home network or not. All its interfaces can be connected to a=20 visited network or one or several interfaces can be connected to the=20 home network. I think that this scenario is one of the most important=20 and need further discussion, especially what happen when several=20 interfaces are connected to home and other not. These kind of discussion=20 will be proposed in the next revision of the draft In scenario 7, the only case where the MN is multihomed is when the MN=20 is connected to the home network with one of its 2 interfaces and=20 connected to a visited network with another one. >Which interface uses the HoA? > This is an implementation issue. The HoA can be allocated to a virtual=20 interface (Kame or Ryuji's interface). In that case, we have to consider=20 what happen when connected at home. Otherwise, the home address can be allocated to a particular interface=20 (Linux implementation). >Or is the HoA shared by two or more interfaces (L2 addresses)? > I don't really get your question... Can you detail more ? > >How can the MN use a HoA and a CoA at the same time >if it only has _one_ HoA (scenario 7)? > If you are talking about scenario 7, the MN can use his HoA as a normal=20 IPv6 address to communicate with CNs (I mean no MIP6 processings) The other interface, which is connected to a visited network, can use RO=20 to communicate with CN. >What happens to packets addressed to the HoA? >Are they delivered to the HA or to the MN? > They go to the interface connected to the home network and are delivered=20 directly to the MN (the HA has no binding for the MN) Hope it helps to clarify ! Nicolas > >Thank you, >Tobias > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Mip6 mailing list >Mip6@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 > =20 > _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Nov 13 17:32:22 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA24919 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 17:32:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKQ0S-00044w-70 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 17:32:04 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hADMW4Hj015678 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 17:32:04 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKQ0S-00044n-1K for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 17:32:04 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA24909 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 17:31:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKQ0P-0006qZ-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 17:32:01 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKQ0P-0006qW-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 17:32:01 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKQ0P-00044C-F3; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 17:32:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKQ0D-00043X-P7 for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 17:31:50 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAB24906 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 17:31:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKQ0B-0006qS-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 17:31:47 -0500 Received: from clarinet.u-strasbg.fr ([130.79.90.157]) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKQ0A-0006qK-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 17:31:46 -0500 Received: (qmail 30173 invoked for bounce); 13 Nov 2003 22:32:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO clarinet.u-strasbg.fr) (montavont@unknown) by unknown with RC4-MD5 encrypted SMTP; 13 Nov 2003 22:32:01 -0000 Message-ID: <3FB4064D.4070208@clarinet.u-strasbg.fr> Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 23:31:41 +0100 From: Nicolas Montavont User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030723 Thunderbird/0.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Gregory Daley CC: "Jee J.Z." , mip6@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Mip6] A Question on Mobile IPv6 -- Alternate Care-of Address option References: <3171ee319d60.319d603171ee@mail1.monash.edu.au> In-Reply-To: <3171ee319d60.319d603171ee@mail1.monash.edu.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gregory Daley wrote: >Dear Jee, > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Jee J.Z." >Date: Friday, November 14, 2003 5:42 am >Subject: [Mip6] A Question on Mobile IPv6 -- Alternate Care-of Address >option > > > >>Dear all, >> >>May I ask a question on MIPv6: >> >>About the Alternate Care-of Address option, in 5.2.6 >>(draft-ietf-mobileip-ipv6-24) it reads: >> >>"...However, a different care-of address MAY be specified by >>including an >>Alternate Care-of Address mobility option in the Binding Update >>(see Section >>6.2.5). When such a message is sent to the correspondent node and the >>return routability procedure is used as the authorization method, the >>Care-of Test Init and Care-of Test messages MUST have been >>performed for the >>address in the Alternate Care-of Address option (not the Source >>Address)...." >> >>And in 6.2.5 it reads: >> >>"...Normally, a Binding Update specifies the desired care-of >>address in the >>Source Address field of the IPv6 header. However, this is not >>possible in >>some cases, such as when the mobile node wishes to indicate a care-of >>address which it cannot use as a topologically correct source address >>(Section 6.1.7 and Section 11.7.2) or when the used security >>mechanism does >>not protect the IPv6 header (Section 11.7.1)...." >> >>Since the Alternate Care-of Address is only valid in Binding >>Update message, >>how can the Correspondent Node know this alternate Care-of Address >>whenperforming return routability procedure? >> >> >> > > >HMIPv6 uses this option. Also, If a host already has a >currently performed return routability procedure for a CoA >(for example, it has decided to change back to a previously >visited network) it may desire to perform the BU before >it leaves in order to reduce handover latency. > It is an interesting scenario, but how to determine the timing on when you really go back to the old network ? Further, how can be sure that your address is still valid in your old location ? Another scenario can be a scenario of multihoming: consider that you have two interfaces and wants to use one for signalization and the other one for the data packets. Nicolas > >I'm not sure how realistic this scenario is, but in this case, >an Alternative CoA is required. I'm not sure if anyone except >HMIPv6 uses this option in reality though. > >Greg > > >_______________________________________________ >Mip6 mailing list >Mip6@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 > > _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Nov 13 17:36:26 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA25177 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 17:36:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKQ4K-0004bv-UV for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 17:36:08 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hADMa4AC017716 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 17:36:04 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKQ4K-0004Yq-89 for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 17:36:04 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA25140 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 17:35:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKQ4H-0006tv-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 17:36:01 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKQ4H-0006tq-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 17:36:01 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKQ4I-0004Uv-Tr; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 17:36:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKQ3o-0004Nu-PU for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 17:35:32 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA25048; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 17:35:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKQ3l-0006tE-00; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 17:35:29 -0500 Received: from brmea-mail-3.sun.com ([192.18.98.34]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKQ3l-0006tB-00; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 17:35:29 -0500 Received: from bebop.France.Sun.COM ([129.157.174.15]) by brmea-mail-3.sun.com (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hADMZO5u025263; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:35:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from lillen (punchin-nordmark.Eng.Sun.COM [192.9.61.11]) by bebop.France.Sun.COM (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.10.2/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with SMTP id hADMZKQ08048; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 23:35:20 +0100 (MET) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 23:34:21 +0100 (CET) From: Erik Nordmark Reply-To: Erik Nordmark To: James Kempf Cc: nemo@ietf.org, mip4@ietf.org, mip6@ietf.org, mipshop@ietf.org In-Reply-To: "Your message with ID" <00f601c3a97d$991aea70$85818182@dclkempt40> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Subject: [Mip6] Re: [Mipshop] Minutes of Multiple Link Flows BAR BOF Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , I didn't make it to the bar on Monday due to jetlag. One observation I have on the desire to send different flows over different paths/CoAs. Looking at possible multihoming solutions (take draft-nordmark-multi6-noid as an example one what a solution might look like) the result is that the stack would have a mapping from an ID (used by transport protocols) to a set of locators for the peer. This type of example shows that it might be useful to express sending different flows over different paths/locators even if mobility isn't used. Thus I don't think such a scheme, if we are going to define one, should be tied to mobility specific signalling. Erik _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Nov 13 17:42:22 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA25508 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 17:42:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKQA8-0005gk-Gy for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 17:42:04 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hADMg499021860 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 17:42:04 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKQA8-0005gV-C0 for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 17:42:04 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA25487 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 17:41:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKQA5-00070O-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 17:42:01 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKQA5-00070K-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 17:42:01 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKQA4-0005dT-NS; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 17:42:00 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKQ9e-0005d3-Va for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 17:41:35 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA25472 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 17:41:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKQ9c-000702-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 17:41:32 -0500 Received: from mail-gw1.york.ac.uk ([144.32.128.246]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKQ9b-0006zl-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 17:41:31 -0500 Received: from grouse (grouse.ohm.york.ac.uk [144.32.137.104]) by mail-gw1.york.ac.uk (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hADMeo3B009961; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 22:40:50 GMT Message-ID: <009f01c3aa37$829dd1d0$68892090@grouse> From: "Jee J.Z." To: Cc: "Gregory Daley" References: <3171ee319d60.319d603171ee@mail1.monash.edu.au> Subject: Re: [Mip6] A Question on Mobile IPv6 -- Alternate Care-of Address option Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 22:43:08 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-York-MailScanner: Found to be clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Greg and all, Thank you for your reply. I don't doubt there would be cases in which we should use the Alternate Care-of Address option, such as those you stated and stated in section 6.2.5 in draft-ietf-mobileip-ipv6-24 (for convenience I list it below again). "...Normally, a Binding Update specifies the desired care-of address in the Source Address field of the IPv6 header. However, this is not possible in some cases, such as when the mobile node wishes to indicate a care-of address which it cannot use as a topologically correct source address (Section 6.1.7 and Section 11.7.2) or when the used security mechanism does not protect the IPv6 header (Section 11.7.1)...." What I am wondering is when return routability procedure is used before the BU (with the Alternate Care-of Address option) is sent, how could the Care-of Test Init and Care-of Test messages be performed for the address in the Alternate Care-of Address option? Correspondent node can't get the alternate care-of address through the Care-of Test Init, can it? Thus the Care-of keygen toden is not calculated based on the alternate care-of address. I am still confused. Thank you. Jee ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gregory Daley" To: "Jee J.Z." Cc: Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2003 7:56 PM Subject: Re: [Mip6] A Question on Mobile IPv6 -- Alternate Care-of Address option > Dear Jee, > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jee J.Z." > Date: Friday, November 14, 2003 5:42 am > Subject: [Mip6] A Question on Mobile IPv6 -- Alternate Care-of Address > option > > > Dear all, > > > > May I ask a question on MIPv6: > > > > About the Alternate Care-of Address option, in 5.2.6 > > (draft-ietf-mobileip-ipv6-24) it reads: > > > > "...However, a different care-of address MAY be specified by > > including an > > Alternate Care-of Address mobility option in the Binding Update > > (see Section > > 6.2.5). When such a message is sent to the correspondent node and the > > return routability procedure is used as the authorization method, the > > Care-of Test Init and Care-of Test messages MUST have been > > performed for the > > address in the Alternate Care-of Address option (not the Source > > Address)...." > > > > And in 6.2.5 it reads: > > > > "...Normally, a Binding Update specifies the desired care-of > > address in the > > Source Address field of the IPv6 header. However, this is not > > possible in > > some cases, such as when the mobile node wishes to indicate a care-of > > address which it cannot use as a topologically correct source address > > (Section 6.1.7 and Section 11.7.2) or when the used security > > mechanism does > > not protect the IPv6 header (Section 11.7.1)...." > > > > Since the Alternate Care-of Address is only valid in Binding > > Update message, > > how can the Correspondent Node know this alternate Care-of Address > > whenperforming return routability procedure? > > > > > HMIPv6 uses this option. Also, If a host already has a > currently performed return routability procedure for a CoA > (for example, it has decided to change back to a previously > visited network) it may desire to perform the BU before > it leaves in order to reduce handover latency. > > I'm not sure how realistic this scenario is, but in this case, > an Alternative CoA is required. I'm not sure if anyone except > HMIPv6 uses this option in reality though. > > Greg > > _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Nov 13 18:04:20 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA26558 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:04:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKQVO-0006lx-Up for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:04:03 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hADN42YX026027 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:04:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKQVO-0006lT-Jw for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:04:02 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA26470 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:03:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKQVL-0007Lu-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:03:59 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKQVL-0007Lp-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:03:59 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKQVM-0006kO-Rl; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:04:00 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKQUx-0006jQ-QH for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:03:35 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA26408; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:03:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKQUu-0007Ky-00; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:03:32 -0500 Received: from imh.informatik.uni-bremen.de ([134.102.224.4]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKQUt-0007Kv-00; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:03:31 -0500 Received: from tzi.org (imh.informatik.uni-bremen.de [134.102.224.4]) by imh.informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hADN3OEf011370; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 00:03:24 +0100 (MET) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 00:03:30 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Cc: Carsten Bormann , James Kempf , nemo@ietf.org, mip4@ietf.org, mip6@ietf.org, mipshop@ietf.org To: Erik Nordmark From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <98FF293E-162D-11D8-90E6-00039390397C@tzi.org> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Mip6] Re: [nemo] Re: [Mipshop] Minutes of Multiple Link Flows BAR BOF Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > This type of example shows that it might be useful to express sending > different flows over different paths/locators even if mobility isn't > used. > > Thus I don't think such a scheme, if we are going to define one, > should be tied to mobility specific signalling. This is certainly good thinking, but the question is "express to whom"? When you have a HA, this is a good place to perform this flow handoff -- existing trust relationship, same administrative domain, existing and stable communication relationship. The MobileIP protocol is a good way to talk to the HA (and much of the signalling actually can be piggybacked). A more general approach (e.g., the closest willing router shared between the paths to the two interfaces) will need an on-path signalling protocol like NSIS, which is much more complex to use. Generality is not always cheap. (I'm willing to be convinced that it actually is, in this case.) Oh, and if there is no mobility, it is much easier to involve the CN (transport peer) from the outset -- no protocol needed in this (obvious) case. Gruesse, Carsten _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Nov 13 18:23:21 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA28816 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:23:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKQno-00007l-92 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:23:04 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hADNN4d4000470 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:23:04 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKQnn-00007I-Sh for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:23:03 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA28787 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:22:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKQnk-0007lM-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:23:00 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKQnk-0007lJ-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:23:00 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKQnm-0008WN-94; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:23:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKQnd-0008UN-7I for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:22:53 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA28744 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:22:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKQnZ-0007km-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:22:49 -0500 Received: from clarinet.u-strasbg.fr ([130.79.90.157]) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKQnY-0007kc-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:22:48 -0500 Received: (qmail 30510 invoked for bounce); 13 Nov 2003 23:22:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO clarinet.u-strasbg.fr) (montavont@unknown) by unknown with RC4-MD5 encrypted SMTP; 13 Nov 2003 23:22:48 -0000 Message-ID: <3FB41243.7020502@clarinet.u-strasbg.fr> Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 00:22:43 +0100 From: Nicolas Montavont User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030723 Thunderbird/0.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Erik Nordmark CC: James Kempf , nemo@ietf.org, mip4@ietf.org, mip6@ietf.org, mipshop@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Mip6] Re: [Mipshop] Minutes of Multiple Link Flows BAR BOF References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Erik Nordmark wrote: >I didn't make it to the bar on Monday due to jetlag. > >One observation I have on the desire to send different flows over >different paths/CoAs. > >Looking at possible multihoming solutions (take draft-nordmark-multi6-noid >as an example one what a solution might look like) the result >is that the stack would have a mapping from an ID (used by transport protocols) >to a set of locators for the peer. > >This type of example shows that it might be useful to express sending >different flows over different paths/locators even if mobility isn't used. > >Thus I don't think such a scheme, if we are going to define one, >should be tied to mobility specific signalling. > I totally agree with you that if we specify a MIPv6-tied solution for "general" multihoming, we may encounter difficulties with non-MNs. But I think that some points are to be clarified in MIPv6 when the MN is multihomed. That is what we are trying to show in draft-montavont-pb-statement. And I'd like to point out another aspect of multihoming, more linked to our draft on filtering (draft-montavont-mip6-ha-filtering). Assume that you have two interfaces, a WLAN interface and a GPRS interface and you currently use the WLAN interface through a reverse tunnel with your home agent. Assume that you receive several flows on your pda. One of them is a video streaming. Then you leave the hot spot zone and want to switch your flows on GPRS interface. To do so, you send a BU to your HA. In this case, it can be very useful to add some filters on what flows you want to be redirected and what flows you don't want on your GPRS interface. It seems to me that to use the BU in that case is a good solution, because you only need to send one message. This does not forbidd the use of other mechanisms to manage multihoming in different situations. Maybe the conclusion of that can be that different problems may lead to different solutions. A clear problem statement, from each WG may definitly help to clarify the situation. Nicolas > > Erik > > >_______________________________________________ >Mip6 mailing list >Mip6@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 > > _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Nov 13 21:13:24 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA05373 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 21:13:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKTSL-0004RF-E3 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 21:13:05 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAE2D5Ev017060 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 21:13:05 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKTSK-0004Q4-RM for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 21:13:05 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA05299 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 21:12:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKTSH-0002mQ-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 21:13:01 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKTSH-0002mK-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 21:13:01 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKTSH-0004Mt-4L; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 21:13:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKTRY-0004Fl-Vw for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 21:12:17 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA05148; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 21:12:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKTRV-0002jO-00; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 21:12:13 -0500 Received: from key1.docomolabs-usa.com ([216.98.102.225] helo=fridge.docomolabs-usa.com ident=fwuser) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKTRU-0002jC-00; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 21:12:13 -0500 Message-ID: <05a801c3aa54$c15258c0$85818182@dclkempt40> From: "James Kempf" To: "Erik Nordmark" , "Carsten Bormann" Cc: "Carsten Bormann" , , , , References: <98FF293E-162D-11D8-90E6-00039390397C@tzi.org> Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:12:27 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Mip6] Re: [nemo] Re: [Mipshop] Minutes of Multiple Link Flows BAR BOF Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Carsten, > > This type of example shows that it might be useful to express sending > > different flows over different paths/locators even if mobility isn't > > used. > > > > Thus I don't think such a scheme, if we are going to define one, > > should be tied to mobility specific signalling. > > This is certainly good thinking, but the question is "express to whom"? > > When you have a HA, this is a good place to perform this flow handoff > -- existing trust relationship, same administrative domain, existing > and stable communication relationship. > The MobileIP protocol is a good way to talk to the HA (and much of the > signalling actually can be piggybacked). > A more general approach (e.g., the closest willing router shared > between the paths to the two interfaces) will need an on-path > signalling protocol like NSIS, which is much more complex to use. > NSIS is certanly more general, but seems like it is the right approach architecturally. The home agent is essentially a middlebox, and from the presentations I saw today in the NSIS group, NSIS is a solution primarily for signaling to middleboxes, not routers like RSVP is. > Generality is not always cheap. > (I'm willing to be convinced that it actually is, in this case.) > Not clear what the implementation and deployment cost of NSIS is at this point. In terms of dynamic performance, whether the MN sends a binding update or an NSIS message to the home agent, does it make such a differenc? > Oh, and if there is no mobility, it is much easier to involve the CN > (transport peer) from the outset -- no protocol needed in this > (obvious) case. > One could make an argument that it still might be useful to mask multihoming from the CN. jak _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Nov 13 21:20:27 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA05794 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 21:20:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKTZB-0004x0-Fe for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 21:20:09 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAE2K9Y8019019 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 21:20:09 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKTZA-0004vW-1F for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 21:20:08 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA05753 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 21:19:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKTZ7-0002yO-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 21:20:05 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKTZ6-0002yL-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 21:20:04 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKTZ7-0004rt-Rr; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 21:20:05 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKTYO-0004mf-MM for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 21:19:20 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA05724; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 21:19:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKTYL-0002xv-00; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 21:19:17 -0500 Received: from brmea-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.98.43]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKTYK-0002xs-00; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 21:19:17 -0500 Received: from bebop.France.Sun.COM ([129.157.174.15]) by brmea-mail-2.sun.com (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAE2JCPh015944; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 19:19:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from lillen (punchin-nordmark.Eng.Sun.COM [192.9.61.11]) by bebop.France.Sun.COM (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.10.2/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with SMTP id hAE2J9Q05946; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 03:19:09 +0100 (MET) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 03:18:09 +0100 (CET) From: Erik Nordmark Reply-To: Erik Nordmark To: Carsten Bormann Cc: Erik Nordmark , James Kempf , nemo@ietf.org, mip4@ietf.org, mip6@ietf.org, mipshop@ietf.org In-Reply-To: "Your message with ID" <98FF293E-162D-11D8-90E6-00039390397C@tzi.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Subject: [Mip6] Re: [nemo] Re: [Mipshop] Minutes of Multiple Link Flows BAR BOF Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , > This is certainly good thinking, but the question is "express to whom"? To the entity that has the ability to choose locators. In some multihoming proposals this is a shim layer above IP at the originating node. > When you have a HA, this is a good place to perform this flow handoff > -- existing trust relationship, same administrative domain, existing > and stable communication relationship. > The MobileIP protocol is a good way to talk to the HA (and much of the > signalling actually can be piggybacked). > A more general approach (e.g., the closest willing router shared > between the paths to the two interfaces) will need an on-path > signalling protocol like NSIS, which is much more complex to use. Yes, bolting solutions on existing protocols even though the problem is more general is a common approach; sometimes we pay deerly for this because - we might end up solving the general case as well - the general + specific solutions means that we know have two solutions for the same problem - the specific solution makes the exising protocol (MIP signalling in this case) more complex, less likely to interoperate, etc > Oh, and if there is no mobility, it is much easier to involve the CN > (transport peer) from the outset -- no protocol needed in this > (obvious) case. How can the peer know that I want the video part of the conference over the WLAN interface and the audio part over GPRS? One could declare this to be an application specific problem, but it would still require application specific signalling, right? Erik _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Nov 13 21:22:24 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA05955 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 21:22:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKTb3-0005IS-M8 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 21:22:05 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAE2M5p3020204 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 21:22:05 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKTb2-0005D7-OD for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 21:22:04 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA05916 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 21:21:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKTaz-00030w-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 21:22:02 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKTaz-00030r-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 21:22:01 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKTb1-00057T-6z; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 21:22:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKTad-00055T-Mp for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 21:21:39 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA05895; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 21:21:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKTaa-00030H-00; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 21:21:36 -0500 Received: from nwkea-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.42.13]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKTaa-0002zs-00; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 21:21:36 -0500 Received: from bebop.France.Sun.COM ([129.157.174.15]) by nwkea-mail-1.sun.com (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAE2L0UP010808; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:21:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from lillen (punchin-nordmark.Eng.Sun.COM [192.9.61.11]) by bebop.France.Sun.COM (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.10.2/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with SMTP id hAE2KgQ06073; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 03:20:42 +0100 (MET) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 03:19:36 +0100 (CET) From: Erik Nordmark Reply-To: Erik Nordmark Subject: Re: [Mip6] Re: [Mipshop] Minutes of Multiple Link Flows BAR BOF To: Nicolas Montavont Cc: Erik Nordmark , James Kempf , nemo@ietf.org, mip4@ietf.org, mip6@ietf.org, mipshop@ietf.org In-Reply-To: "Your message with ID" <3FB41243.7020502@clarinet.u-strasbg.fr> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , > Then you leave the hot spot zone and want to switch your flows on GPRS > interface. To do so, you send a BU to your HA. In this case, it can be > very useful to add some filters on what flows you want to be redirected > and what flows you don't want on your GPRS interface. It seems to me > that to use the BU in that case is a good solution, because you only > need to send one message. This does not forbidd the use of other > mechanisms to manage multihoming in different situations. Yes, but this is just as useful even if I don't use MIP. Developping multiple solutions to the same problem shouldn't be a goal I think. Erik _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Nov 13 21:52:22 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA07459 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 21:52:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKU44-0007BI-TD for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 21:52:04 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAE2q4iC027598 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 21:52:04 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKU43-000799-AH for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 21:52:04 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA07374 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 21:51:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKU40-0003cr-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 21:52:00 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKU3z-0003cm-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 21:51:59 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKU41-00077a-K7; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 21:52:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKU3o-00075S-Hw for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 21:51:48 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA07335; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 21:51:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKU3l-0003c3-00; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 21:51:45 -0500 Received: from imh.informatik.uni-bremen.de ([134.102.224.4]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKU3k-0003c0-00; Thu, 13 Nov 2003 21:51:44 -0500 Received: from tzi.org (imh.informatik.uni-bremen.de [134.102.224.4]) by imh.informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAE2paCA008696; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 03:51:37 +0100 (MET) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 03:51:43 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Cc: Carsten Bormann , James Kempf , nemo@ietf.org, mip4@ietf.org, mip6@ietf.org, mipshop@ietf.org To: Erik Nordmark From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <7AD8D658-164D-11D8-90E6-00039390397C@tzi.org> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Mip6] Re: [nemo] Re: [Mipshop] Minutes of Multiple Link Flows BAR BOF Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > How can the peer know that I want the video part of the conference over > the WLAN interface and the audio part over GPRS? > One could declare this to be an application specific problem, but it > would > still require application specific signalling, right? Yes, and both SIP/SDP(ng) and H.323 allow specifying the IP address of the destination for a media stream. You can even move those during a session (if the peer system implements this). Even FTP had third-party transfers, before these went out of fashion. With HTTP, you just use the right interface to make the request. On the other hand, if you always wanted to involve the CN in these handoffs, we wouldn't need MobileIP. (The interesting deviant case is a non-cooperating CN -- here you actually need a friend in the network even if you are not mobile.) Gruesse, Carsten _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Nov 14 05:16:22 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA04666 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 05:16:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKazm-00039h-0j for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 05:16:06 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAEAG5uA012130 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 05:16:05 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKazl-00039Z-NN for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 05:16:05 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA04652 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 05:15:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKazi-0002at-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 05:16:02 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKazh-0002aq-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 05:16:01 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKazi-00038z-1y; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 05:16:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKayr-000378-2p for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 05:15:09 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA04626 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 05:14:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKayn-0002YI-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 05:15:05 -0500 Received: from iramx2.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de ([141.3.10.81]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKayn-0002YE-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 05:15:05 -0500 Received: from irams1.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de ([141.3.10.5] helo=irams1.ira.uka.de) by iramx2.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de with esmtp (Exim 3.30 #10 (Debian)) id 1AKaym-0003Vz-00; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 11:15:04 +0100 Received: from i72tobias.tm.uni-karlsruhe.de ([141.3.71.75] helo=i72tobias) by irams1.ira.uka.de with esmtp (Exim 3.30 #7 (Debian)) id 1AKaym-0004hZ-00; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 11:15:04 +0100 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Tobias_K=FCfner?= To: "'Nicolas Montavont'" Cc: Subject: Re: [Mip6] Question on draft-montavont-mobileip-multihoming-pb-statement Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 11:15:25 +0100 Message-ID: <000401c3aa98$4a710e60$4b47038d@tm.unikarlsruhe.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <3FB3E814.4020104@clarinet.u-strasbg.fr> Importance: Normal Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Nicolas, thank you very much for your explanation. My comments are inline. > First of all, the taxonomy does not give how the MN is currently=20 > connected to the network (maybe it's needed). For some=20 > scenarios, it is=20 > implicit, but for most of them, it is not given. Do you think that it=20 > would be interesting to consider how the MN is connected to=20 > the network=20 > (I mean which interface is connected at home and which is not) IMO it would be helpful to point out the restrictions=20 to the use of the CoA(s) in scenario 6 and 7 (1,*,n). As your draft says in 4.3 "the CoAs can not be registered=20 with the home agent serving to MN on the home link it is=20 connected to". IMO this is especially important for scenario 6 and 7 (1,*,n). If you consider a MN connected to its _one and only_ home link=20 in scenario 6 and 7, the MN _must_ use RO with its CoA(s) assigned to its interface(s) connected to visited links. Or am I missing something? =20 > >Which interface uses the HoA? > >Or is the HoA shared by two or more interfaces (L2 addresses)? > > > I don't really get your question... Can you detail more ? Not necessary. It is clear to me now. > If you are talking about scenario 7, the MN can use his HoA=20 > as a normal=20 > IPv6 address to communicate with CNs (I mean no MIP6=20 > processings) The other interface, which is connected to a=20 > visited network, can use RO=20 > to communicate with CN. I agree. =20 But IMO it would be helpful to point out, that in this case the MN has to send/receive HoTI/HoT _directly_ to the CN=20 without tunneling it to/from the HA.=20 This has been the point I misunderstood. Tobias _____________ Tobias K=FCfner Institute of Telematics, University of Karlsruhe, Germany _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Nov 14 08:54:20 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA10318 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 08:54:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKeOh-0008F6-4Z for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 08:54:03 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAEDs3ve031678 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 08:54:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKeOg-0008Er-Vh for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 08:54:03 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA10310 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 08:53:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKeOf-0005Ls-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 08:54:01 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKeOf-0005Lp-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 08:54:01 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKeOf-0008EM-DY; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 08:54:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKeNm-0008AJ-2C for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 08:53:06 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA10288 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 08:52:52 -0500 (EST) From: mounir.kellil@hds.utc.fr Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKeNh-0005LQ-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 08:53:01 -0500 Received: from diabolo.hds.utc.fr ([195.83.157.26]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKeNg-0005LL-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 08:53:00 -0500 Received: by diabolo.hds.utc.fr (Postfix, from userid 1100) id 2B1126E74; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 14:54:57 +0100 (MET) Received: from 81.255.30.220 ([81.255.30.220]) by mail.hds.utc.fr (IMP) with HTTP for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 14:54:57 +0100 Message-ID: <1068818097.3fb4deb107657@mail.hds.utc.fr> Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 14:54:57 +0100 To: mip6@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.2.2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [Mip6] Question: Route Optimization and SA re-negotiation Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello all, I have a question with respect to the impact of Route Optimization procedure on the SA between MN and CN (in both cases: MobileIPv6 and MobileIPv4) . Is such a SA re-negotiated each time the MN performs Route Optimization with CN during a given session?. Regards Mounir ------------------------------------------------- Laboratoire Heudiasyc. UMR CNRS 6599 http://www.hds.utc.fr _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Nov 14 09:07:26 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA10772 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 09:07:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKebK-000069-Vj for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 09:07:09 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAEE762p000361 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 09:07:06 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKebJ-000052-Gs for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 09:07:05 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA10717 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 09:06:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKebI-0005Yj-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 09:07:04 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKebH-0005Yf-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 09:07:03 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKebH-0008VX-SO; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 09:07:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AKeb6-0008TK-Kx for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 09:06:52 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA10707; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 09:06:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKeb2-0005YR-00; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 09:06:48 -0500 Received: from nwkea-mail-2.sun.com ([192.18.42.14]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AKeb2-0005XU-00; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 09:06:48 -0500 Received: from bebop.France.Sun.COM ([129.157.174.15]) by nwkea-mail-2.sun.com (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAEE6CxA008351; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 06:06:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from lillen (punchin-nordmark.Eng.Sun.COM [192.9.61.11]) by bebop.France.Sun.COM (8.11.7p1+Sun/8.10.2/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with SMTP id hAEE67Q15529; Fri, 14 Nov 2003 15:06:07 +0100 (MET) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 15:05:06 +0100 (CET) From: Erik Nordmark Reply-To: Erik Nordmark To: Carsten Bormann Cc: Erik Nordmark , James Kempf , nemo@ietf.org, mip4@ietf.org, mip6@ietf.org, mipshop@ietf.org In-Reply-To: "Your message with ID" <7AD8D658-164D-11D8-90E6-00039390397C@tzi.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Subject: [Mip6] Re: [nemo] Re: [Mipshop] Minutes of Multiple Link Flows BAR BOF Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , > On the other hand, if you always wanted to involve the CN in these > handoffs, we wouldn't need MobileIP. You'd still need one (or more) rendez-vous points aka home agents to handle initial contact and both ends of communication moving at the same time. Erik _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Sat Nov 15 20:55:28 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA29380 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 20:55:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALC86-0005xW-VE for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 20:55:10 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAG1tAYI022898 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 20:55:10 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALC86-0005xE-On for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 20:55:10 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA29331 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2003 20:54:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALC84-0001ts-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; 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Sat, 15 Nov 2003 20:54:28 -0500 From: "Prince Sam Eguzo" Reply-To: princesam_eguzo@tiscali.co.uk To: mip6@ietf.org Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 02:53:15 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6900 DM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [Mip6] ATTENTION MY DEAR FRIEND Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Prince Sam Eguzo Lagos-Africa 16th November 2003 Dear Friend I=2C on behalf of my colleagues from different Federal Government of Nigeria owned parastatals decided to solicit your assistance as regards transfer of US$10=2C500=2C000=2E00 =28Ten Million=2Cfive Hundred Thousand US Dollars=29 into your bank account=2E These funds emanated from unclaimed contractual proceeds of foreign contracting firms who could not meet their financial obligations to their creditors=2EWe=2Cas holders of sensitive positions in our various parastatals=2C were mandated by the Federal Government to scrutinise all payments made to certain foreign contractors and we discovered that some of the contractors have not been paid their contractual entitlement which collectively left the sum of US$15=2C500=2C000=2E00 =28Fiftheen Million=2C five Hundred Thousand US Dollars=29 lying in a suspended Account=2E However=2C from our investigations=2C we discovered that the foreign beneficiary companies have since been liquidated=2C and to all intents and purposes no longer exist in Nigeria=2C thus providing us with this opportunity=2C provided that we have a capable partner=2C to execute a transaction of this nature=2E We agreed that the said amount would be transferred into an overseas Bank Account to be provided by a reliable foreign firm=2Fassociate=2E This is because as serving Government workers the Civil Service Code does not allow us to operate foreign Account=2E In our initial attempt to do this=2C we succeeded in transferring part of this amount US$5m =28Five Million Dollars=29 into a United States Dollar Account in Beirut=2C Lebanon=2C but our foreign associate failed to honour our mutual agreement insisting instead that the total amount be transferred into the Account before we can share the money=2E As a result=2C we have lost confidence in the ability of our Lebanese partner to see this matter to its logical conclusion=2C and until the initial transaction is satisfactorily resolved=2C we have cancelled further transactions with him=2E In the light of the foregoing=2C it is clear that we require a partner that is not only capable of rendering assistance and cooperation in executing this matter=2C but will honour the terms of agreement when we reach the concluding stages of this transaction=2E We therefore offer the amount of 20% of the entire sum in return for services=2Fassistance rendered in successfully carrying out this project=2E We trust that you appreciate the sensitive nature of this matter and the need for initial caution on our part=2C but when a relationship is confidently established and operations commence you will be provided with all relevant information=2E I remain at your disposal to entertain any questions=2Fenquiries relatingb to this proposition and you may contact me as a matter of urgency via e-mail=2C for further information on the procedures and requirements of this transaction=2E In your reply=2C remember to indicate a safe telephone number where I can always reach you=2E Hope to hear from you soon=2E Please treat with the strictest confidentiality and expediency=2E Yours faithfully=2C Prince Sam Eguzo _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Sun Nov 16 00:54:19 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA06559 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 00:54:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALFrG-0007cZ-4W for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 00:54:02 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAG5s2Tm029289 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 00:54:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALFrF-0007cK-VH for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 00:54:02 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA06551 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 00:53:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALFrD-0005ui-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 00:53:59 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALFrC-0005uf-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 00:53:58 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALFrE-0007bj-SG; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 00:54:00 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALFqn-0007bT-69 for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 00:53:33 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA06544 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 00:53:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALFqk-0005uR-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 00:53:30 -0500 Received: from mail.flarion.com ([63.103.94.23] helo=ftmail.lab.flarion.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALFqj-0005u4-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 00:53:30 -0500 Received: by ftmail.lab.flarion.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 00:52:59 -0500 Message-ID: <9E3BA3946476AD4EB94672712B12A85F041FF8@ftmail.lab.flarion.com> From: Soliman Hesham To: "'Jee J.Z.'" , mip6@ietf.org Cc: Gregory Daley Subject: RE: [Mip6] A Question on Mobile IPv6 -- Alternate Care-of Address option Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 00:52:55 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , > "...Normally, a Binding Update specifies the desired > care-of address > in the Source Address field of the IPv6 header. However, this is not > possible in some cases, such as when the mobile node wishes > to indicate a > care-of address which it cannot use as a topologically > correct source > address (Section 6.1.7 and Section 11.7.2) or when the used security > mechanism does not protect the IPv6 header (Section 11.7.1)...." > > What I am wondering is when return routability procedure is > used before the > BU (with the Alternate Care-of Address option) is sent, how could the > Care-of Test Init and Care-of Test messages be performed for > the address in > the Alternate Care-of Address option? Correspondent node > can't get the > alternate care-of address through the Care-of Test Init, can > it? => The alternate coa is also assigned to the MN. So when the MN runs the return routability test, it MUST use that CoA in the COTI/COT messages. I.e. the same address used in those messages must be used in the BU. Otherwise nothing will work. This is done in HMIPv6 for example. Thus the > Care-of keygen toden is not calculated based on the alternate care-of > address. => It must be calculated based on the alternate CoA. You assumed that it is not for some reason. Hesham _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Sun Nov 16 13:34:23 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA03403 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 13:34:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALRim-0000i1-Ll for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 13:34:05 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAGIY44P002725 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 13:34:04 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALRim-0000hs-De for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 13:34:04 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA03392 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 13:33:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALRik-0000IT-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 13:34:02 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALRik-0000IQ-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 13:34:02 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALRii-0000hK-IC; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 13:34:00 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALRi9-0000gy-HG for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 13:33:26 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA03388 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 13:33:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALRi7-0000IA-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 13:33:23 -0500 Received: from mail-gw1.york.ac.uk ([144.32.128.246]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALRi6-0000I6-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 13:33:22 -0500 Received: from jz105 (host-172-16-2-203.sns.york.ac.uk [172.16.2.203]) by mail-gw1.york.ac.uk (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hAGIWk3B028530; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 18:32:46 GMT Message-ID: <007501c3ac70$7dc17190$cb0210ac@jz105> From: "Jee J.Z." To: "Soliman Hesham" , Cc: "Gregory Daley" References: <9E3BA3946476AD4EB94672712B12A85F041FF8@ftmail.lab.flarion.com> Subject: Re: [Mip6] A Question on Mobile IPv6 -- Alternate Care-of Address option Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 18:36:00 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0073_01C3AC70.7BA918E0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-York-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0073_01C3AC70.7BA918E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 ------=_NextPart_000_0073_01C3AC70.7BA918E0 Content-Type: text/plain; name="Alternate Care-of Address option.txt" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Alternate Care-of Address option.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Hesham and Greg, Thank you very much and your comments are helpful. Now I assume that = when MN uses the "alternate care-of address" as its source address in = the COTI message, it needs to tunnel the COTI (using a topologically = correct outer header) to deal with ingress filtering. I think after I = read HMIPv6, things will get clearer. Cheers! Regards, Jee ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Soliman Hesham" To: "'Jee J.Z.'" ; Cc: "Gregory Daley" Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2003 5:52 AM Subject: RE: [Mip6] A Question on Mobile IPv6 -- Alternate Care-of = Address option >=20 > > "...Normally, a Binding Update specifies the desired=20 > > care-of address > > in the Source Address field of the IPv6 header. However, this is = not > > possible in some cases, such as when the mobile node wishes=20 > > to indicate a > > care-of address which it cannot use as a topologically=20 > > correct source > > address (Section 6.1.7 and Section 11.7.2) or when the used = security > > mechanism does not protect the IPv6 header (Section 11.7.1)...." > >=20 > > What I am wondering is when return routability procedure is=20 > > used before the > > BU (with the Alternate Care-of Address option) is sent, how could = the > > Care-of Test Init and Care-of Test messages be performed for=20 > > the address in > > the Alternate Care-of Address option? Correspondent node=20 > > can't get the > > alternate care-of address through the Care-of Test Init, can=20 > > it?=20 >=20 > =3D> The alternate coa is also assigned to the MN. So when the=20 > MN runs the return routability test, it MUST use that CoA > in the COTI/COT messages. I.e. the same address used in those > messages must be used in the BU. Otherwise nothing will > work. This is done in HMIPv6 for example.=20 >=20 > Thus the > > Care-of keygen toden is not calculated based on the alternate = care-of > > address.=20 >=20 > =3D> It must be calculated based on the alternate CoA.=20 > You assumed that it is not for some reason.=20 >=20 > Hesham >=20 > ------=_NextPart_000_0073_01C3AC70.7BA918E0-- _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Sun Nov 16 23:28:23 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA17996 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 23:28:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALazc-0003pC-Mw for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 23:28:05 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAH4S4vv014698 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 23:28:04 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALazc-0003oz-I1 for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 23:28:04 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA17986 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 23:27:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALaza-0000Y3-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 23:28:02 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALaza-0000Xz-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 23:28:02 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALazY-0003nN-Gq; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 23:28:00 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALayv-0003mw-L9 for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 23:27:22 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA17945 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 23:27:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALayt-0000XM-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 23:27:19 -0500 Received: from alpha6.its.monash.edu.au ([130.194.1.25]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALayt-0000XI-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 23:27:19 -0500 Received: from localhost ([130.194.13.83]) by vaxc.its.monash.edu.au (PMDF V6.1 #39306) with ESMTP id <01L355VPLX648ZQRXJ@vaxc.its.monash.edu.au> for mip6@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 15:26:29 +1100 Received: from splat.its.monash.edu.au (localhost.its.monash.edu.au [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with ESMTP id C771F23C003; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 15:26:24 +1100 (EST) Received: from eng.monash.edu.au (knuth.eng.monash.edu.au [130.194.252.110]) by splat.its.monash.edu.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id AAB86164005; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 15:26:24 +1100 (EST) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 15:26:24 +1100 From: Greg Daley Subject: Re: [Mip6] A Question on Mobile IPv6 -- Alternate Care-of Address option To: Nicolas Montavont Cc: "Jee J.Z." , mip6@ietf.org Reply-to: greg.daley@eng.monash.edu.au Message-id: <3FB84DF0.1030105@eng.monash.edu.au> Organization: Monash University MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en, en-us User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.0.0) Gecko/20020529 References: <3171ee319d60.319d603171ee@mail1.monash.edu.au> <3FB4064D.4070208@clarinet.u-strasbg.fr> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Nicolas Montavont wrote: [part cut] >> >> >> HMIPv6 uses this option. Also, If a host already has a >> currently performed return routability procedure for a CoA >> (for example, it has decided to change back to a previously >> visited network) it may desire to perform the BU before >> it leaves in order to reduce handover latency. >> > It is an interesting scenario, but how to determine the timing on when > you really go back to the old network ? Further, how can be sure that > your address is still valid in your old location ? I'd guess that if you used a near-randomly generated address such as a CGA or a 3041 address, the address is unlikely to be claimed in your absence. I'd guess that you'd know if you were going back to the old network if you had some external knowledge about the quality of the signal, or you were returning to the same geographic location where you were connected before (and received good service then). > Another scenario can be a scenario of multihoming: consider that you > have two interfaces and wants to use one for signalization and the other > one for the data packets. Indeed. This is actually more likely to be of use, but in this case, return routability needs to be done from the new CoA to prove the identity of the host's interface. If there didn't need to be any signalling from the new access interface, this could be a great advantage, if the new link is constrained or costly. With a stronger security association it is plausible that you could trust someone anyway even without a prior COT/I exchange but even HMIPv6 requires an online-care-of-test in this case. Greg _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Sun Nov 16 23:58:19 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA18509 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 23:58:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALbSc-0004j5-6t for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 23:58:02 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAH4w2UB018164 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 23:58:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALbSc-0004it-1w for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 23:58:02 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA18503 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 23:57:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALbSZ-0000oA-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 23:57:59 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALbSZ-0000o5-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 23:57:59 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALbSa-0004iN-R2; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 23:58:00 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALbSP-0004h2-VK for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 23:57:50 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA18496 for ; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 23:57:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALbSN-0000ny-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 23:57:47 -0500 Received: from alpha9.its.monash.edu.au ([130.194.1.9]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALbSN-0000nv-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Sun, 16 Nov 2003 23:57:47 -0500 Received: from localhost ([130.194.13.84]) by vaxh.its.monash.edu.au (PMDF V5.2-31 #39306) with ESMTP id <01L35614AUKE8ZRRVY@vaxh.its.monash.edu.au> for mip6@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 15:29:59 +1100 Received: from blammo.its.monash.edu.au (localhost.its.monash.edu.au [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3766739C004; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 15:30:00 +1100 (EST) Received: from eng.monash.edu.au (knuth.eng.monash.edu.au [130.194.252.110]) by blammo.its.monash.edu.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BEEF2DC004; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 15:30:00 +1100 (EST) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 15:29:59 +1100 From: Greg Daley Subject: Re: [Mip6] A Question on Mobile IPv6 -- Alternate Care-of Address option To: "Jee J.Z." Cc: mip6@ietf.org Reply-to: greg.daley@eng.monash.edu.au Message-id: <3FB84EC7.6090709@eng.monash.edu.au> Organization: Monash University MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.0.0) Gecko/20020529 X-Accept-Language: en, en-us References: <3171ee319d60.319d603171ee@mail1.monash.edu.au> <009f01c3aa37$829dd1d0$68892090@grouse> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hi Jee, Jee J.Z. wrote: > Hi Greg and all, > > Thank you for your reply. I don't doubt there would be cases in which we > should use the Alternate Care-of Address option, such as those you stated > and stated in section 6.2.5 in draft-ietf-mobileip-ipv6-24 (for convenience > I list it below again). > > "...Normally, a Binding Update specifies the desired care-of address > in the Source Address field of the IPv6 header. However, this is not > possible in some cases, such as when the mobile node wishes to indicate a > care-of address which it cannot use as a topologically correct source > address (Section 6.1.7 and Section 11.7.2) or when the used security > mechanism does not protect the IPv6 header (Section 11.7.1)...." > > What I am wondering is when return routability procedure is used before the > BU (with the Alternate Care-of Address option) is sent, how could the > Care-of Test Init and Care-of Test messages be performed for the address in > the Alternate Care-of Address option? Correspondent node can't get the > alternate care-of address through the Care-of Test Init, can it? Thus the > Care-of keygen toden is not calculated based on the alternate care-of > address. I am still confused. Thank you. You're right, the CoT/I exchange may be required currently for MIPv6. In HMIPv6 this is OK, if we want to send the alt-coa BU from the on-link care-of-address of the MN. the RR has to be done over the MAP tunnel though. Greg _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 17 01:17:26 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA19904 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 01:17:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALch7-0007VJ-Bl for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 01:17:07 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAH6H59o028846 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 01:17:05 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALch7-0007Ul-5J for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 01:17:05 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA19876 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 01:16:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALch4-0001yY-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 01:17:02 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALch3-0001yV-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 01:17:01 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALch2-0007To-Q7; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 01:17:00 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALcg8-0007SN-SG for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 01:16:04 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA19857; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 01:15:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALcg5-0001wH-00; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 01:16:01 -0500 Received: from shonan.sfc.wide.ad.jp ([203.178.142.130]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALcg5-0001w1-00; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 01:16:01 -0500 Received: from galibier.nautilus6.org (unknown [203.178.138.3]) by shonan.sfc.wide.ad.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B67F5D13C; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 15:15:30 +0900 (JST) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 15:10:01 +0900 From: Thierry Ernst To: "James Kempf" Cc: mip6@ietf.org, nemo Subject: Re: [Mip6] Minutes of Multiple Link Flows BAR BOF Message-Id: <20031117151001.46c1b509.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> In-Reply-To: <02f701c3aa03$07d095c0$85818182@dclkempt40> References: <00f601c3a97d$991aea70$85818182@dclkempt40> <3FB3A6E0.3050503@clarinet.u-strasbg.fr> <02f701c3aa03$07d095c0$85818182@dclkempt40> Organization: Keio University X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.8.11 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i686-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit James, Thanks for the quick post of minutes and see my comments inline. "James Kempf" wrote: > Hi Nicolas, > > However, I have to raise a point. We (Ryuji, Thierry, Thomas and me) > > began to write a problem statement draft in MIP6 WG > > (draft-montavont-multihoming-pb-statement-00) and I think that it can be > > the starting point of a pb statement document. Following the > > presentation of this draft at the MIP6 meeting, and from some comments > > in the mailing list, we receive valuable feedback for the evolution of > > this draft. Also, the bar bof gives us other ideas to enhance this > document. > > > > So I think that a new version of this draft can constitute the pb > > statement currently required to move forward on the multihoming. It is > > not necessary to duplicate the efforts. > > Sorry I missed this in the minutes. An update of your draft based on list > feedback and discussion at the BAR BOF would certainly be valuable. > > I think the U. Bremen folks are primarily interested in MIP4 as that is > where their prototype was done, and I believe the primary near term > deployment interest is there, due to the possiblity of multiinterface > laptops and pending release of multi-interface phones. > > However, I think it might make some sense for you and they to combine > efforts if you both agree there would be some common points in the problem > statement between MIP4 and MIP6. Since MIP4 has some immediate deployment > interest, it might be most approprate to work on a general problem statement > there first, with review from the MIP6 group, then later work on the MIP6 > specific issues in the MIP6 group. > > I'd suggest contacting the WG chairs of MIP4 and MIP6 about how to proceed, > and definitely talking with Carsten and U. Bremen folks about the > possibility of combining efforts. I think work on v4 and v6 should be split, the generic problem statement may be the same but not the details, and the same people are not involved in both. Besides this, I think that it's more important to work on v6 since it will replace v4. It's useful to work hard trying to get new features to v6 before it gets to its full deployment. We will quickly revise our problem statement drafts both in MIP6 and NEMO WG. Thierry. _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 17 05:24:21 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA07367 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 05:24:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALgY7-0000sP-PR for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 05:24:03 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAHAO3uF003363 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 05:24:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALgY7-0000sA-L8 for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 05:24:03 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA07358 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 05:23:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALgY4-0004Qx-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 05:24:00 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALgY3-0004Qu-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 05:23:59 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALgY5-0000qx-SD; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 05:24:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALgXf-0000pg-KB for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 05:23:35 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA07326; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 05:23:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALgXb-0004Pz-00; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 05:23:31 -0500 Received: from mail.flarion.com ([63.103.94.23] helo=ftmail.lab.flarion.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALgXb-0004P2-00; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 05:23:31 -0500 Received: by ftmail.lab.flarion.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 05:20:36 -0500 Message-ID: <9E3BA3946476AD4EB94672712B12A85F041FFA@ftmail.lab.flarion.com> From: Soliman Hesham To: mip4@ietf.org, mip6@ietf.org Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 05:20:33 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Subject: [Mip6] tying flow movement to MIP RE: [Mipshop] Minutes of Multiple Lin k Flows BAR BOF Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Hi, Just wanted to drop a note on adding flow movement capabilities to MIP. I completely agree that adding new functions to MIP just because "it's there" does not make any sense, and that where a problem applies to both fixed and mobile hosts we should avoid fixing it in a mobility protocol. However, when it comes to flow movement, it is not immediately obvious to me that it is outside the scope of MIP. I'll try to break the problem down in an attempt to realise where each component belongs. The basic problem is that a node needs to decide what src address should be used by a particular connection. Forgetting about MIP for a minute, this is obvious when a host is trying to initiate communication with another host. Src address selection can be augmented with various policies (user-based or otherwise) to allow the host to pick the right src address. However, this is a bit more complex when a host is not the initiator of communication. This leads to sub-problem (1) (1) Informing the initiator of communication of the right dst address for the host on the other end. This information can be communicated implicitly or explicitly. One possible example for implicitly informing the other end is through using different domain names (e.g. audio.example.com returns a different address from video.example.com). On the other hand, explicit notification of the address can be done by using a protocol to negotiate a connection setup (e.g. SIP does this today). Not withstanding the example solutions above, sub-problem (1) is independent of any mobility and applies to any multi-addressed host. Once a connection is established, the right addresses are chosen by both ends, end of story. Now, the other aspect of the problem is this: Once a connection is established, using a particular src and destination address pair, how can either host modify this information? In other words, if WLAN coverage suddenly appeared to my laptop, how do I inform the host on the other end to move one of our connections to WLAN, while leaving the other on the cellular interface? In a few words, I want to change the dst address for a particular connection without breaking that connection. This requires a protocol to signal that to the other end. To me, this problem seems to fall into the IP mobility category of problems, although it is addressing a finer granularity of mobility. Note that SIP also has signalling support for session transfer, but: A) it was not intended for this purpose and B) it is not widely implemented and C) it is slower than an "optimised" MIP (BTW neither A nor B discredits using SIP for this purpose). So sub-problem (2): (2) How to move a flow from one address to another. MIP efficiently solves this problem for a host, but it does not provide further granularity (i.e. connection or flow). Personally, I think sub-problem (2) is a mobility problem, by the definition of IP mobility. I believe that MIP solves two problems: maintaining current connections while moving, and reachability. "Moving" in the context of IP mobility effectively means changing IP address, independently of whether that change affects all flows or only one or two. My 2 cents! Hesham _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 17 07:26:25 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA09757 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 07:26:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALiSD-0004Fv-KT for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 07:26:06 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAHCQ58d016353 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 07:26:05 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALiSD-0004Fg-En for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 07:26:05 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA09733 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 07:25:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALiSC-0005ok-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 07:26:05 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALiSC-0005oh-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 07:26:04 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALiSB-0004FB-6i; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 07:26:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALiRo-0004EA-TK for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 07:25:41 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA09724 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 07:25:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALiRo-0005oM-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 07:25:40 -0500 Received: from p2.piuha.net ([131.160.192.2]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALiRn-0005oJ-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 07:25:39 -0500 Received: from kolumbus.fi (p4.piuha.net [131.160.192.4]) by p2.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A36E36A904; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 14:25:37 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <3FB8BD40.9000805@kolumbus.fi> Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 14:21:20 +0200 From: Jari Arkko User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20030225 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: mip6@ietf.org Cc: Thomas Narten , Brian Haberman Subject: Re: [Mip6] suggested contents of the IANA registry for MIPv6 References: <3FB00581.20304@kolumbus.fi> In-Reply-To: <3FB00581.20304@kolumbus.fi> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit An update. Apparently MLDv2 folks have been using ICMP #143 already, so we'd like to move the MIPv6 numbers one higher, i.e. 144 and onwards: 144 Home Agent Address Discovery Request Message [RFC-ietf-mobileip-ipv6-24.txt] 145 Home Agent Address Discovery Reply Message [RFC-ietf-mobileip-ipv6-24.txt] 146 Mobile Prefix Solicitation [RFC-ietf-mobileip-ipv6-24.txt] 147 Mobile Prefix Advertisement [RFC-ietf-mobileip-ipv6-24.txt] unless there are objections. --Jari _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 17 07:59:34 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA10373 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 07:59:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALiyJ-0005FC-En for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 07:59:15 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAHCxFVh020157 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 07:59:15 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALiyH-0005Eh-Sr for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 07:59:13 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA10345 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 07:59:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALiyG-00068t-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 07:59:12 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALiyG-00068a-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 07:59:12 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALiy6-00059I-4Z; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 07:59:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALiy3-00058a-Ej for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 07:58:59 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA10336; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 07:58:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALiy2-00068U-00; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 07:58:58 -0500 Received: from h195n1fls311o871.telia.com ([213.64.174.195] helo=chardonnay) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALiy1-00068N-00; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 07:58:58 -0500 Received: from chardonnay ([127.0.0.1]) by chardonnay with smtp (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 1ALixy-0000Ak-00; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 13:58:54 +0100 Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 13:58:44 +0100 From: Henrik Levkowetz To: Soliman Hesham Cc: mip4@ietf.org, mip6@ietf.org Message-Id: <20031117135844.3e7af1b2.henrik@levkowetz.com> In-Reply-To: <9E3BA3946476AD4EB94672712B12A85F041FFA@ftmail.lab.flarion.com> References: <9E3BA3946476AD4EB94672712B12A85F041FFA@ftmail.lab.flarion.com> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.6claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Mip6] Re: [Mip4] tying flow movement to MIP RE: [Mipshop] Minutes of Multiple Lin k Flows BAR BOF Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Hesham, That's a pretty good summary. My own thinking on this, after a bit of discussion in Minneapolis, is that the MIP solution which is the least MIP-specific would be to have separate individual MIP sessions for each flow (or group of flows) we wanted to move independently of other flows. This takes care of the ability to treat flows individually, and it does so by providing separate Home IP-addresses for those flows to pass through. I also note that the flow groups, and their IP-addresses, needs to be established before individual user applications start up and bind to the individual HoAs - we have no way to signal most application to re-bind to a new IP-address. The cost of this solution is in having to do re-registration of multiple sessions when you move, but such a cost is already implicit in the fact that with multiple connections through different connection media you have to be able to handle each media individually, whether it is by separate sessions or by filter adaptations. But I believe completely separate sessions will adapt better to any other non-movement-specific solution to multihoming that may appear. Henrik Monday 17 November 2003, Hesham wrote: > Hi, > > Just wanted to drop a note on adding flow movement > capabilities to MIP. > > I completely agree that adding new functions to > MIP just because "it's there" does not make any sense, > and that where a problem applies to both fixed and mobile > hosts we should avoid fixing it in a mobility protocol. > However, when it comes to flow movement, it is not immediately > obvious to me that it is outside the scope of MIP. > I'll try to break the problem down in an attempt to realise > where each component belongs. > > The basic problem is that a node needs to decide what > src address should be used by a particular connection. > Forgetting about MIP for a minute, this is obvious when > a host is trying to initiate communication with another host. > Src address selection can be augmented with various policies > (user-based or otherwise) to allow the host to pick the > right src address. However, this is a bit more complex when > a host is not the initiator of communication. This leads > to sub-problem (1) > (1) Informing the initiator of communication of the right > dst address for the host on the other end. > > This information can be communicated implicitly or explicitly. > One possible example for implicitly informing the other end > is through using different domain names (e.g. audio.example.com > returns a different address from video.example.com). On the > other hand, explicit notification of the address can be done > by using a protocol to negotiate a connection setup (e.g. SIP > does this today). > > Not withstanding the example solutions above, sub-problem > (1) is independent of any mobility and applies to any > multi-addressed host. > > Once a connection is established, the right addresses are > chosen by both ends, end of story. > > Now, the other aspect of the problem is this: Once a connection > is established, using a particular src and destination address > pair, how can either host modify this information? In other > words, if WLAN coverage suddenly appeared to my laptop, how > do I inform the host on the other end to move one of our > connections to WLAN, while leaving the other on the cellular > interface? In a few words, I want to change the dst address for > a particular connection without breaking that connection. > This requires a protocol to signal that to the other end. > To me, this problem seems to fall into the IP mobility category > of problems, although it is addressing a finer granularity > of mobility. > Note that SIP also has signalling support for session transfer, > but: A) it was not intended for this purpose and B) it is > not widely implemented and C) it is slower than an "optimised" MIP > (BTW neither A nor B discredits using SIP for this purpose). > > So sub-problem (2): > (2) How to move a flow from one address to another. > > MIP efficiently solves this problem for a host, but it > does not provide further granularity (i.e. connection > or flow). > > Personally, I think sub-problem (2) is a mobility > problem, by the definition of IP mobility. I believe > that MIP solves two problems: maintaining current connections > while moving, and reachability. > "Moving" in the context of IP mobility effectively means > changing IP address, independently of whether that change > affects all flows or only one or two. > > My 2 cents! > > Hesham > > > > > -- > Mip4 mailing list > Mip4@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip4 _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 17 08:20:29 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA10868 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 08:20:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALjIV-0006CL-L6 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 08:20:10 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAHDK760023819 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 08:20:07 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALjIV-0006C5-Gu for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 08:20:07 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA10824 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 08:19:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALjIU-0006NX-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 08:20:06 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALjIU-0006NU-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 08:20:06 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALjIS-00067a-61; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 08:20:04 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALjI6-000622-Ii for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 08:19:42 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA10799; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 08:19:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALjI5-0006Mo-00; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 08:19:41 -0500 Received: from mail.flarion.com ([63.103.94.23] helo=ftmail.lab.flarion.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALjI4-0006Lq-00; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 08:19:40 -0500 Received: by ftmail.lab.flarion.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 08:19:04 -0500 Message-ID: <9E3BA3946476AD4EB94672712B12A85F041FFC@ftmail.lab.flarion.com> From: Soliman Hesham To: "'Henrik Levkowetz'" Cc: mip4@ietf.org, mip6@ietf.org Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 08:19:00 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Subject: [Mip6] RE: [Mip4] tying flow movement to MIP RE: [Mipshop] Minutes of Multiple Lin k Flows BAR BOF Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Hi Henrik, It's certainly _a_ solution. And definitely a simple one. But I would view this as being very expensive for MIPv6. Assuming 2 HoAs, in the worst case scenario the MN could end up sending two BUs to the HA and two to each CN that knows about both HoAs. I think this is too expensive, especially if MIP is being used to manage mobility proper. For MIPv4 it's not as expensive, but sending two different RREQs upon movement can still be expensive from the edge of a cell, given the sizes of those messages. Hesham > -----Original Message----- > From: Henrik Levkowetz [mailto:henrik@levkowetz.com] > Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 7:59 AM > To: Soliman Hesham > Cc: mip4@ietf.org; mip6@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Mip4] tying flow movement to MIP RE: [Mipshop] > Minutes of > Multiple Lin k Flows BAR BOF > > > Hi Hesham, > > That's a pretty good summary. My own thinking on this, > after a bit > of discussion in Minneapolis, is that the MIP solution which is the > least MIP-specific would be to have separate individual MIP > sessions for > each flow (or group of flows) we wanted to move > independently of other > flows. This takes care of the ability to treat flows > individually, and > it does so by providing separate Home IP-addresses for those flows to > pass through. > > I also note that the flow groups, and their IP-addresses, needs to be > established before individual user applications start up and > bind to the > individual HoAs - we have no way to signal most application > to re-bind > to a new IP-address. > > The cost of this solution is in having to do re-registration > of multiple > sessions when you move, but such a cost is already implicit > in the fact > that with multiple connections through different connection media you > have to be able to handle each media individually, whether it is by > separate sessions or by filter adaptations. But I believe completely > separate sessions will adapt better to any other > non-movement-specific > solution to multihoming that may appear. > > Henrik > > Monday 17 November 2003, Hesham wrote: > > Hi, > > > > Just wanted to drop a note on adding flow movement > > capabilities to MIP. > > > > I completely agree that adding new functions to > > MIP just because "it's there" does not make any sense, > > and that where a problem applies to both fixed and mobile > > hosts we should avoid fixing it in a mobility protocol. > > However, when it comes to flow movement, it is not immediately > > obvious to me that it is outside the scope of MIP. > > I'll try to break the problem down in an attempt to realise > > where each component belongs. > > > > The basic problem is that a node needs to decide what > > src address should be used by a particular connection. > > Forgetting about MIP for a minute, this is obvious when > > a host is trying to initiate communication with another host. > > Src address selection can be augmented with various policies > > (user-based or otherwise) to allow the host to pick the > > right src address. However, this is a bit more complex when > > a host is not the initiator of communication. This leads > > to sub-problem (1) > > (1) Informing the initiator of communication of the right > > dst address for the host on the other end. > > > > This information can be communicated implicitly or explicitly. > > One possible example for implicitly informing the other end > > is through using different domain names (e.g. audio.example.com > > returns a different address from video.example.com). On the > > other hand, explicit notification of the address can be done > > by using a protocol to negotiate a connection setup (e.g. SIP > > does this today). > > > > Not withstanding the example solutions above, sub-problem > > (1) is independent of any mobility and applies to any > > multi-addressed host. > > > > Once a connection is established, the right addresses are > > chosen by both ends, end of story. > > > > Now, the other aspect of the problem is this: Once a connection > > is established, using a particular src and destination address > > pair, how can either host modify this information? In other > > words, if WLAN coverage suddenly appeared to my laptop, how > > do I inform the host on the other end to move one of our > > connections to WLAN, while leaving the other on the cellular > > interface? In a few words, I want to change the dst address for > > a particular connection without breaking that connection. > > This requires a protocol to signal that to the other end. > > To me, this problem seems to fall into the IP mobility category > > of problems, although it is addressing a finer granularity > > of mobility. > > Note that SIP also has signalling support for session transfer, > > but: A) it was not intended for this purpose and B) it is > > not widely implemented and C) it is slower than an "optimised" MIP > > (BTW neither A nor B discredits using SIP for this purpose). > > > > So sub-problem (2): > > (2) How to move a flow from one address to another. > > > > MIP efficiently solves this problem for a host, but it > > does not provide further granularity (i.e. connection > > or flow). > > > > Personally, I think sub-problem (2) is a mobility > > problem, by the definition of IP mobility. I believe > > that MIP solves two problems: maintaining current connections > > while moving, and reachability. > > "Moving" in the context of IP mobility effectively means > > changing IP address, independently of whether that change > > affects all flows or only one or two. > > > > My 2 cents! > > > > Hesham > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Mip4 mailing list > > Mip4@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip4 > _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 17 11:03:22 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA17685 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 11:03:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALlqC-0005zn-4s for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 11:03:05 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAHG340q023046 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 11:03:04 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALlqB-0005zd-Tk for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 11:03:03 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA17630 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 11:02:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALlq9-0000dp-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 11:03:01 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALlq9-0000dm-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 11:03:01 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALlqA-0005yC-2o; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 11:03:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALlpw-0005ws-BS for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 11:02:48 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA17559 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 11:02:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALlpt-0000cr-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 11:02:45 -0500 Received: from [81.199.84.81] (helo=helimore476.com) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALlpM-0000an-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 11:02:28 -0500 From: "MARIAM ABACHA." Reply-To: mariam_sani_abacha@indiatimes.com To: mip6@ietf.org Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 16:02:28 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6900 DM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [Mip6] TREAT AS URGENT Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ATTN=3ATHE PRESIDENT=2FC=2EE=2EO DEAR SIR=2FMADAM=2C IT IS WITH HEART FULL OF HOPE THAT I WRITE TO SEEK YOUR HELP IN THE CONTEXT BELOW=2E I AM MRS=2C MARIAM ABACHA =28WIDOW=29 THE WIFE OF FORMER HEAD OF STATE OF NIGERIA=2C GENERAL SANI ABACHA WHO'S SUDDEN DEATH OCCURRED ON THE 8TH OF JUNE=2C 1998=2E AS A RESULT OF CARDIAC ARREST WHILE STILL IN GOVERNMENT=2EI GOT YOUR EMAIL CONTACT FROM ONE OF THE MY FAMILY FRIEND A DIRECTOR=2C WITH THE NIGERIA CHEMBERS OF COMMERCE AND INDUSTRY=2E I HAVE NO DOUBT ABOUT YOUR CAPACITY AND GOODWILL TO ASSIST ME IN RECEIVING INTO YOUR PERSONAL BANK ACCOUNT =28FOR SAFETY=29 THE SUM OF US$32=2C800=2C000=2E00 =28THIRTY TWO MILLION=2C EIGTH HUNDRED THOUSAND US DOLLAS=29 WILLED AND DEPOSITED IN MY LATE HUSBAND'S FAVOUR THIS MONEY IS CURRENTLY DEPOSITED WITH A SECURITY COMPANY IN TWO TRUNK BOXES AS BELONGINGS AWAITING COLLECTION=2E AS IT IS LEGALLY REQUIRED=2C THE ADMINISTRATION OF MY LATE HUSBAND'S PROPERTIES IS UNDER THE AUTHORITY OF THE FAMILY'S LAWYER SINCE THE DEMISE OF MY HUSBAND=2C THE PRESENT REG! IME =28GOVERNMENT=29 HAS BEEN PROBING MY LATE HUSBAND'S WEALTH=2E PRESENTLY=2C SOME CASH ASSETS WITHIN AND OUTSIDE NIGERIA HAVE BEEN FROZEN AND SEIZED=2EFORTUNATELY=2C OUR FAMILY LAWYER HAD SECRETLY PROTECTED THE PERSONAL WILL OF MY LATE HUSBAND FROM THE NOTICE OF THE GOVERNMENT MEANWHILE=2C I AND EVERY MEMBER OF MY FAMILY ARE BEING MONITORED AND ALSO DENIAD ACCESS TO FINANCIAL DEALING WITHIN AND OUTSIDE NIGERIA=2EHENCE=2C I WAS ADVICE BY MY PERSONAL ASSISTANCE TO EMPLOYE THE ASSISTANCE OF A NEUTRAL INDIVIDUAL OUTSIDE NIGERIA AND WITH THE LEGAL BACKING OF MY FAMILY LAWYER TO POSE AS THE BENEFICIARY OF THE WILLED MONEY AND THEREFORE CLAIM THE CONSIGNMENT FROM THE SECURITY COMPANY FOR BENEFIT OF US ALL=2E THE GOVERNMENT HAD EARLIER PLACED FOREIGN EMBARGO ON ALL OUR FAMILY MEMBERS=2C SEIZED ALL KNOWN LOCAL AND INTERNATIONAL OUTFITS OF OUR BUSINESS EMPIRE=2E THE SITUATION HAS BEEN SO TERRIBLE THAT WE ARE VIRTUALLY LIVING ON THE ASSISTANCE OF OUR WELL WISHERS=2E IN VIEW OF THIS ! PLIGHT THEREFORE=2C I EXPECT YOU TO BE TRUST WORTHY AND KIND ENOUGH TO RESPOND TO MY MAIL TO SAVE MY FAMILY AND I FROM A HOPELESS FUTURE=2E I HEREBY AGREE TO CONPENSATE YOUR SINCERE AND CANDID EFFORT IN THIS REGARD WITH 20% OF THE FUND WHEN FINALLY RECEIVED IN YOUR PERSONAL BANK ACCOUNT=2EMY LAWYER WILL MAKE EVERY ARRENGMENTS TO EFFECT COMPLETE DISLODGMENT OF THIS MONEY WITHIN A WEEK OF THE RECEIPT OF YOUR RESPONSE THROUGH E-MAIL=2EPLEASE=2C ALL CONTACT ON PHONE MUST BE THROUGH OUR FAMILY LAWYER- OR MY PERSONAL ASSISTANCE WHILE YOU COMMUNICATE WITH ME ON EMAIL AS I AND MY FAMILY MEMBER IS BEEN HEAVELY MONITORED BY THE GOVERNMENT=2E I WILL ALSO FORWARD THE EMAIL AND PHONE NUMBER OF MY FAMILY AFTER YOUR RESPONSE=2E I LOOK FORWARD TO YOUR QUICK RESPONSE=2E MAY ALLAH BLESS YOU=2E BEST WISHES=2C MRS=2E MARIAM ABACHA =28WIDOW=29=2E NB=3A PLEASE I WILL WANT YOU TO GO THROUGH THE FOLLOWING WEBSITE INOTHER TO CONFIRM MORE ON THE ISSUES OF THE ABACHA AND THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT SEIZURE AND FROZON ON THE ABACHA'S WEALTH=2E http=3A=2F=2Fnews=2Ebbc=2Eco=2Euk=2F1=2Fhi=2Fworld=2Fafrica=2F877113=2Estm http=3A=2F=2Fnews=2Ebbc=2Eco=2Euk=2F1=2Fhi=2Fworld=2Fafrica=2F909972=2Estm http=3A=2F=2Fwww=2Emarcosbillions=2Ecom=2Fmarcos=2FDictators%20Abacha=2Ehtm _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 17 11:41:25 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA19455 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 11:41:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALmQz-0000E7-Ud for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 11:41:07 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAHGf5bp000870 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 11:41:05 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALmQz-0000Dx-NU for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 11:41:05 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA19415 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 11:40:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALmQy-0001Ay-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 11:41:04 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALmQy-0001Av-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 11:41:04 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALmQw-0000Cr-8j; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 11:41:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALmQe-0000CL-VL for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 11:40:44 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA19394; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 11:40:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALmQd-0001AO-00; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 11:40:43 -0500 Received: from [213.80.52.78] (helo=mailgw.local.ipunplugged.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALmQc-0001AD-00; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 11:40:42 -0500 Received: from zinfandel.local.ipunplugged.com (chardonnay.local.ipunplugged.com [192.168.4.44]) by mailgw.local.ipunplugged.com (8.12.8/8.12.3) with SMTP id hAHGe1EY009814; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 17:40:01 +0100 Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 17:40:00 +0100 From: Henrik Levkowetz To: Soliman Hesham Cc: mip4@ietf.org, mip6@ietf.org Message-Id: <20031117174000.5be9a786.henrik@levkowetz.com> In-Reply-To: <9E3BA3946476AD4EB94672712B12A85F041FFC@ftmail.lab.flarion.com> References: <9E3BA3946476AD4EB94672712B12A85F041FFC@ftmail.lab.flarion.com> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.5claws28 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg="pgp-sha1"; boundary="Signature=_Mon__17_Nov_2003_17_40_00_+0100_tpTvyQ+VaibCFusR" X-RAVMilter-Version: 8.4.4(snapshot 20030410) (mailgw.local.ipunplugged.com) Subject: [Mip6] Re: [Mip4] tying flow movement to MIP RE: [Mipshop] Minutes of Multiple Lin k Flows BAR BOF Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , --Signature=_Mon__17_Nov_2003_17_40_00_+0100_tpTvyQ+VaibCFusR Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Monday, 17 Nov 2003, Hesham wrote: > It's certainly _a_ solution. And definitely a simple one. > But I would view this as being very expensive for MIPv6. Assuming > 2 HoAs, in the worst case scenario the MN could end up sending two > BUs to the HA and two to each CN that knows about both > HoAs. I think this is too expensive, especially if MIP > is being used to manage mobility proper. > For MIPv4 it's not as expensive, but sending two different > RREQs upon movement can still be expensive from the > edge of a cell, given the sizes of those messages. Mmm, I think mostly it'd be just one BU per CN, but I could be wrong. I also tried to think a little bit about the size of the filter update packets, and I think the chances are they'd be larger than a RRQ - and you might not be able to avoid the RRQ's anyway! I think that before we go for a more complex solution instead of the simpler, we need to do the maths and see that the more complex, less general one really gives a noticeable upside in reasonable scenarios? Henrik > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Henrik Levkowetz [mailto:henrik@levkowetz.com] > > Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 7:59 AM > > To: Soliman Hesham > > Cc: mip4@ietf.org; mip6@ietf.org > > Subject: Re: [Mip4] tying flow movement to MIP RE: [Mipshop] > > Minutes of > > Multiple Lin k Flows BAR BOF > > > > > > Hi Hesham, > > > > That's a pretty good summary. My own thinking on this, > > after a bit > > of discussion in Minneapolis, is that the MIP solution which is the > > least MIP-specific would be to have separate individual MIP > > sessions for > > each flow (or group of flows) we wanted to move > > independently of other > > flows. This takes care of the ability to treat flows > > individually, and > > it does so by providing separate Home IP-addresses for those flows to > > pass through. > > > > I also note that the flow groups, and their IP-addresses, needs to be > > established before individual user applications start up and > > bind to the > > individual HoAs - we have no way to signal most application > > to re-bind > > to a new IP-address. > > > > The cost of this solution is in having to do re-registration > > of multiple > > sessions when you move, but such a cost is already implicit > > in the fact > > that with multiple connections through different connection media you > > have to be able to handle each media individually, whether it is by > > separate sessions or by filter adaptations. But I believe completely > > separate sessions will adapt better to any other > > non-movement-specific > > solution to multihoming that may appear. > > > > Henrik > > > > Monday 17 November 2003, Hesham wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > > > Just wanted to drop a note on adding flow movement > > > capabilities to MIP. > > > > > > I completely agree that adding new functions to > > > MIP just because "it's there" does not make any sense, > > > and that where a problem applies to both fixed and mobile > > > hosts we should avoid fixing it in a mobility protocol. > > > However, when it comes to flow movement, it is not immediately > > > obvious to me that it is outside the scope of MIP. > > > I'll try to break the problem down in an attempt to realise > > > where each component belongs. > > > > > > The basic problem is that a node needs to decide what > > > src address should be used by a particular connection. > > > Forgetting about MIP for a minute, this is obvious when > > > a host is trying to initiate communication with another host. > > > Src address selection can be augmented with various policies > > > (user-based or otherwise) to allow the host to pick the > > > right src address. However, this is a bit more complex when > > > a host is not the initiator of communication. This leads > > > to sub-problem (1) > > > (1) Informing the initiator of communication of the right > > > dst address for the host on the other end. > > > > > > This information can be communicated implicitly or explicitly. > > > One possible example for implicitly informing the other end > > > is through using different domain names (e.g. audio.example.com > > > returns a different address from video.example.com). On the > > > other hand, explicit notification of the address can be done > > > by using a protocol to negotiate a connection setup (e.g. SIP > > > does this today). > > > > > > Not withstanding the example solutions above, sub-problem > > > (1) is independent of any mobility and applies to any > > > multi-addressed host. > > > > > > Once a connection is established, the right addresses are > > > chosen by both ends, end of story. > > > > > > Now, the other aspect of the problem is this: Once a connection > > > is established, using a particular src and destination address > > > pair, how can either host modify this information? In other > > > words, if WLAN coverage suddenly appeared to my laptop, how > > > do I inform the host on the other end to move one of our > > > connections to WLAN, while leaving the other on the cellular > > > interface? In a few words, I want to change the dst address for > > > a particular connection without breaking that connection. > > > This requires a protocol to signal that to the other end. > > > To me, this problem seems to fall into the IP mobility category > > > of problems, although it is addressing a finer granularity > > > of mobility. > > > Note that SIP also has signalling support for session transfer, > > > but: A) it was not intended for this purpose and B) it is > > > not widely implemented and C) it is slower than an "optimised" MIP > > > (BTW neither A nor B discredits using SIP for this purpose). > > > > > > So sub-problem (2): > > > (2) How to move a flow from one address to another. > > > > > > MIP efficiently solves this problem for a host, but it > > > does not provide further granularity (i.e. connection > > > or flow). > > > > > > Personally, I think sub-problem (2) is a mobility > > > problem, by the definition of IP mobility. I believe > > > that MIP solves two problems: maintaining current connections > > > while moving, and reachability. > > > "Moving" in the context of IP mobility effectively means > > > changing IP address, independently of whether that change > > > affects all flows or only one or two. > > > > > > My 2 cents! > > > > > > Hesham > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Mip4 mailing list > > > Mip4@ietf.org > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip4 > > Henrik -- Don't store garlic near other victuals. --Signature=_Mon__17_Nov_2003_17_40_00_+0100_tpTvyQ+VaibCFusR Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/uPngeVhrtTJkXCMRAr8nAKCxWZF1sfCBaxioSbXFIeDIMA1O7QCg2XxT dAnnlrDQDTOlLo7ufHXFESU= =eINn -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Signature=_Mon__17_Nov_2003_17_40_00_+0100_tpTvyQ+VaibCFusR-- _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 17 11:47:20 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA20125 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 11:47:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALmWj-0000RJ-L8 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 11:47:01 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAHGl1EH001683 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 11:47:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALmWj-0000R4-Ga for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 11:47:01 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA20076 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 11:46:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALmWi-0001Pt-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 11:47:00 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALmWi-0001Pq-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 11:47:00 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALmWi-0000Q4-Gj; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 11:47:00 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALmW8-0000PV-2s for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 11:46:24 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA19968; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 11:46:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALmW6-0001Mw-00; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 11:46:22 -0500 Received: from hoemail1.lucent.com ([192.11.226.161] helo=hoemail1.firewall.lucent.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALmW6-0001Jn-00; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 11:46:22 -0500 Received: from nwsgpa.ih.lucent.com (h135-1-121-22.lucent.com [135.1.121.22]) by hoemail1.firewall.lucent.com (Switch-2.2.8/Switch-2.2.0) with ESMTP id hAHGi1R04562; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 10:44:17 -0600 (CST) Received: from mccap-1.lucent.com by nwsgpa.ih.lucent.com (8.11.7p1+Sun/EMS-1.5 sol2) id hAHGhwp05593; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 10:43:58 -0600 (CST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=MCCAP-1.lucent.com) by mccap-1.lucent.com with esmtp (Exim 4.04) id HOI958-0000MW-00; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 11:43:56 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <16312.64202.769515.896944@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 10:43:54 -0600 From: Pete McCann To: Soliman Hesham Cc: "'Henrik Levkowetz'" , mip4@ietf.org, mip6@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <9E3BA3946476AD4EB94672712B12A85F041FFC@ftmail.lab.flarion.com> References: <9E3BA3946476AD4EB94672712B12A85F041FFC@ftmail.lab.flarion.com> X-Mailer: VM 7.14 under 21.5 (beta14) "cassava" XEmacs Lucid Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Mip6] RE: [Mip4] tying flow movement to MIP RE: [Mipshop] Minutes of Multiple Lin k Flows BAR BOF Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Hesham, So maybe what we need is an efficient way to handle multi-homed hosts (hosts with multiple home addresses) in MIP6. This could be something like aggregation of BUs or other sorts of tricks. In MIP4, there may be less of an impact from multiple home addresses due to the absence of route optimization. However, IPv4 addresses are more precious than IPv6 addresses. That last fact seems to me to be the only reason why we would think about putting filters into a registration request. It seems much simpler for the application (using SIP or whatever) to advertise a particular home address to the CN. You could still handle mobility independently for each session, using Mobile IP along with the extra level of indirection supplied by the separate IP addresses. There is no need to build mobility into the application protocol. There may be a few unsolved issues with HAs allocating multiple addresses, but I think it could be handled easily with the use of multiple NAIs. I wrote a draft called the "Mobile IP Session Identifier Extension" some years back, but you could do the same thing with some sort of NAI-mangling naming convention (H.Soliman1@flarion.com, H.Soliman2@flarion.com, etc...). -Pete Soliman Hesham writes: > Hi Henrik, > > It's certainly _a_ solution. And definitely a simple one. > But I would view this as being very expensive for MIPv6. Assuming > 2 HoAs, in the worst case scenario the MN could end up sending two > BUs to the HA and two to each CN that knows about both > HoAs. I think this is too expensive, especially if MIP > is being used to manage mobility proper. > For MIPv4 it's not as expensive, but sending two different > RREQs upon movement can still be expensive from the > edge of a cell, given the sizes of those messages. > > Hesham > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Henrik Levkowetz [mailto:henrik@levkowetz.com] > > Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 7:59 AM > > To: Soliman Hesham > > Cc: mip4@ietf.org; mip6@ietf.org > > Subject: Re: [Mip4] tying flow movement to MIP RE: [Mipshop] > > Minutes of > > Multiple Lin k Flows BAR BOF > > > > > > Hi Hesham, > > > > That's a pretty good summary. My own thinking on this, > > after a bit > > of discussion in Minneapolis, is that the MIP solution which is the > > least MIP-specific would be to have separate individual MIP > > sessions for > > each flow (or group of flows) we wanted to move > > independently of other > > flows. This takes care of the ability to treat flows > > individually, and > > it does so by providing separate Home IP-addresses for those flows to > > pass through. > > > > I also note that the flow groups, and their IP-addresses, needs to be > > established before individual user applications start up and > > bind to the > > individual HoAs - we have no way to signal most application > > to re-bind > > to a new IP-address. > > > > The cost of this solution is in having to do re-registration > > of multiple > > sessions when you move, but such a cost is already implicit > > in the fact > > that with multiple connections through different connection media you > > have to be able to handle each media individually, whether it is by > > separate sessions or by filter adaptations. But I believe completely > > separate sessions will adapt better to any other > > non-movement-specific > > solution to multihoming that may appear. > > > > Henrik > > > > Monday 17 November 2003, Hesham wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > > > Just wanted to drop a note on adding flow movement > > > capabilities to MIP. > > > > > > I completely agree that adding new functions to > > > MIP just because "it's there" does not make any sense, > > > and that where a problem applies to both fixed and mobile > > > hosts we should avoid fixing it in a mobility protocol. > > > However, when it comes to flow movement, it is not immediately > > > obvious to me that it is outside the scope of MIP. > > > I'll try to break the problem down in an attempt to realise > > > where each component belongs. > > > > > > The basic problem is that a node needs to decide what > > > src address should be used by a particular connection. > > > Forgetting about MIP for a minute, this is obvious when > > > a host is trying to initiate communication with another host. > > > Src address selection can be augmented with various policies > > > (user-based or otherwise) to allow the host to pick the > > > right src address. However, this is a bit more complex when > > > a host is not the initiator of communication. This leads > > > to sub-problem (1) > > > (1) Informing the initiator of communication of the right > > > dst address for the host on the other end. > > > > > > This information can be communicated implicitly or explicitly. > > > One possible example for implicitly informing the other end > > > is through using different domain names (e.g. audio.example.com > > > returns a different address from video.example.com). On the > > > other hand, explicit notification of the address can be done > > > by using a protocol to negotiate a connection setup (e.g. SIP > > > does this today). > > > > > > Not withstanding the example solutions above, sub-problem > > > (1) is independent of any mobility and applies to any > > > multi-addressed host. > > > > > > Once a connection is established, the right addresses are > > > chosen by both ends, end of story. > > > > > > Now, the other aspect of the problem is this: Once a connection > > > is established, using a particular src and destination address > > > pair, how can either host modify this information? In other > > > words, if WLAN coverage suddenly appeared to my laptop, how > > > do I inform the host on the other end to move one of our > > > connections to WLAN, while leaving the other on the cellular > > > interface? In a few words, I want to change the dst address for > > > a particular connection without breaking that connection. > > > This requires a protocol to signal that to the other end. > > > To me, this problem seems to fall into the IP mobility category > > > of problems, although it is addressing a finer granularity > > > of mobility. > > > Note that SIP also has signalling support for session transfer, > > > but: A) it was not intended for this purpose and B) it is > > > not widely implemented and C) it is slower than an "optimised" MIP > > > (BTW neither A nor B discredits using SIP for this purpose). > > > > > > So sub-problem (2): > > > (2) How to move a flow from one address to another. > > > > > > MIP efficiently solves this problem for a host, but it > > > does not provide further granularity (i.e. connection > > > or flow). > > > > > > Personally, I think sub-problem (2) is a mobility > > > problem, by the definition of IP mobility. I believe > > > that MIP solves two problems: maintaining current connections > > > while moving, and reachability. > > > "Moving" in the context of IP mobility effectively means > > > changing IP address, independently of whether that change > > > affects all flows or only one or two. > > > > > > My 2 cents! > > > > > > Hesham _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 17 17:50:28 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA11031 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 17:50:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALsC8-0004qZ-R6 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 17:50:11 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAHMo8Hq018622 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 17:50:08 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALsC8-0004qH-Kx for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 17:50:08 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA10995 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 17:49:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALsC5-0000g7-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 17:50:05 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALsC5-0000g4-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 17:50:05 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALsC3-0004pG-4E; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 17:50:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALsBL-0004cs-1U for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 17:49:19 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA10963; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 17:49:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALsBI-0000fG-00; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 17:49:16 -0500 Received: from key1.docomolabs-usa.com ([216.98.102.225] helo=fridge.docomolabs-usa.com ident=fwuser) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALsBH-0000f2-00; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 17:49:15 -0500 Message-ID: <045601c3ad5d$10c11940$956015ac@dclkempt40> From: "James Kempf" To: "Soliman Hesham" , , References: <9E3BA3946476AD4EB94672712B12A85F041FFA@ftmail.lab.flarion.com> Subject: Re: [Mip6] tying flow movement to MIP RE: [Mipshop] Minutes of Multiple Lin k Flows BAR BOF Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 14:49:30 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Hesham, This is a little bit different perspective than the one I've been coming at this from. If I understand you correctly, you seem to be assuming that the correspondent node has knowledge of the additional care of addresses available to the mobile node, correct? Unless the flow is opened directly with the care of address (i.e. the correspondent or mobile node does not go through the home address to start the flow which is somewhat outside the basic Mobile IP scenario) then the only way I can see the correspondent learning about the additional addresses is through MIPv6 route optimization, i.e. the mobile node tells the correspondent to move a particular flow to a different care of address using a binding update that is somehow enhanced to indicate which flow should be handed off (perhaps a use for the new flow label work in the IPv6 WG?) instead of handing off all flows. This is certainly much cleaner than treating the home agent as a middlebox and trying to accomplish the flow handoff there. However, for MIPv4, this won't work because there is no route optimization. Flow handoff will have to occur at the home agent. And, any indication of which flow to handoff will probably require looking into the transport header to determine the port number, the kind of thing typically done by firewalls and NATs in IPv4. This is decidedly less appealing, because it involves middlebox functionality on the home agent. If that's the case, then the issue is what should the signaling look like between the mobile node and home-agent-as-middlebox to accomplish the flow handoff? jak ----- Original Message ----- From: "Soliman Hesham" To: ; Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 2:20 AM Subject: [Mip6] tying flow movement to MIP RE: [Mipshop] Minutes of Multiple Lin k Flows BAR BOF > Hi, > > Just wanted to drop a note on adding flow movement > capabilities to MIP. > > I completely agree that adding new functions to > MIP just because "it's there" does not make any sense, > and that where a problem applies to both fixed and mobile > hosts we should avoid fixing it in a mobility protocol. > However, when it comes to flow movement, it is not immediately > obvious to me that it is outside the scope of MIP. > I'll try to break the problem down in an attempt to realise > where each component belongs. > > The basic problem is that a node needs to decide what > src address should be used by a particular connection. > Forgetting about MIP for a minute, this is obvious when > a host is trying to initiate communication with another host. > Src address selection can be augmented with various policies > (user-based or otherwise) to allow the host to pick the > right src address. However, this is a bit more complex when > a host is not the initiator of communication. This leads > to sub-problem (1) > (1) Informing the initiator of communication of the right > dst address for the host on the other end. > > This information can be communicated implicitly or explicitly. > One possible example for implicitly informing the other end > is through using different domain names (e.g. audio.example.com > returns a different address from video.example.com). On the > other hand, explicit notification of the address can be done > by using a protocol to negotiate a connection setup (e.g. SIP > does this today). > > Not withstanding the example solutions above, sub-problem > (1) is independent of any mobility and applies to any > multi-addressed host. > > Once a connection is established, the right addresses are > chosen by both ends, end of story. > > Now, the other aspect of the problem is this: Once a connection > is established, using a particular src and destination address > pair, how can either host modify this information? In other > words, if WLAN coverage suddenly appeared to my laptop, how > do I inform the host on the other end to move one of our > connections to WLAN, while leaving the other on the cellular > interface? In a few words, I want to change the dst address for > a particular connection without breaking that connection. > This requires a protocol to signal that to the other end. > To me, this problem seems to fall into the IP mobility category > of problems, although it is addressing a finer granularity > of mobility. > Note that SIP also has signalling support for session transfer, > but: A) it was not intended for this purpose and B) it is > not widely implemented and C) it is slower than an "optimised" MIP > (BTW neither A nor B discredits using SIP for this purpose). > > So sub-problem (2): > (2) How to move a flow from one address to another. > > MIP efficiently solves this problem for a host, but it > does not provide further granularity (i.e. connection > or flow). > > Personally, I think sub-problem (2) is a mobility > problem, by the definition of IP mobility. I believe > that MIP solves two problems: maintaining current connections > while moving, and reachability. > "Moving" in the context of IP mobility effectively means > changing IP address, independently of whether that change > affects all flows or only one or two. > > My 2 cents! > > Hesham > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Mip6 mailing list > Mip6@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 > _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 17 17:58:19 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA11384 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 17:58:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALsJl-0005Lg-RD for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 17:58:02 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAHMw1Qj020554 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 17:58:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALsJl-0005LR-MG for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 17:58:01 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA11350 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 17:57:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALsJi-0000mV-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 17:57:59 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALsJi-0000mS-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 17:57:58 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALsJk-0005KV-7m; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 17:58:00 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALsIr-0005K2-HP for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 17:57:05 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA11332; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 17:56:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALsIo-0000ly-00; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 17:57:02 -0500 Received: from key1.docomolabs-usa.com ([216.98.102.225] helo=fridge.docomolabs-usa.com ident=fwuser) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALsIo-0000lv-00; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 17:57:02 -0500 Message-ID: <047301c3ad5e$285fe490$956015ac@dclkempt40> From: "James Kempf" To: "Pete McCann" , "Soliman Hesham" Cc: "'Henrik Levkowetz'" , , References: <9E3BA3946476AD4EB94672712B12A85F041FFC@ftmail.lab.flarion.com> <16312.64202.769515.896944@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Subject: Re: [Mip6] RE: [Mip4] tying flow movement to MIP RE: [Mipshop] Minutes of Multiple Lin k Flows BAR BOF Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 14:57:20 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Pete, > In MIP4, there may be less of an impact from multiple home addresses > due to the absence of route optimization. However, IPv4 addresses are > more precious than IPv6 addresses. That last fact seems to me to be > the only reason why we would think about putting filters into a > registration request. It seems much simpler for the application > (using SIP or whatever) to advertise a particular home address to the > CN. You could still handle mobility independently for each session, > using Mobile IP along with the extra level of indirection supplied by > the separate IP addresses. There is no need to build mobility into > the application protocol. > Agree with IPv4 addresses being scare as the main issue for doing flow handoff at the home agent in MIPv4, but not sure about whether the RREQ is the right place for filters. Seems like it is a generic middlebox problem and should be approached using the same tools as for other middleboxes. > There may be a few unsolved issues with HAs allocating multiple > addresses, but I think it could be handled easily with the use of > multiple NAIs. I wrote a draft called the "Mobile IP Session > Identifier Extension" some years back, but you could do the same thing > with some sort of NAI-mangling naming convention Why would multiple NAIs be necessary if all the CoA to HoA mappings were handled by one HA, as would be the case if the same service provider was providing service on all CoAs? I agree that they would be necessary if the the CoAs were provided by multiple service providers, but the flow handover issue is just the tip of the iceberg in that case, IMHO. jak _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 17 19:03:19 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA14752 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 19:03:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALtKh-0000l1-OJ for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 19:03:03 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAI033xA002907 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 19:03:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALtKh-0000ko-Jp for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 19:03:03 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA14740 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 19:02:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALtKe-0001uU-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 19:03:00 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALtKd-0001uR-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 19:02:59 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALtKf-0000jP-L3; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 19:03:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALtK6-0000hT-LO for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 19:02:26 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA14700; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 19:02:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALtK3-0001tc-00; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 19:02:23 -0500 Received: from h195n1fls311o871.telia.com ([213.64.174.195] helo=chardonnay) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALtK2-0001tX-00; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 19:02:22 -0500 Received: from chardonnay ([127.0.0.1]) by chardonnay with smtp (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 1ALtJS-0000iP-00; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 01:01:46 +0100 Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 01:01:24 +0100 From: Henrik Levkowetz To: "James Kempf" Cc: "Pete McCann" , , Subject: Re: [Mip6] RE: [Mip4] tying flow movement to MIP RE: [Mipshop] Minutes of Multiple Lin k Flows BAR BOF Message-Id: <20031118010124.4d89dabe.henrik@levkowetz.com> In-Reply-To: <047301c3ad5e$285fe490$956015ac@dclkempt40> References: <9E3BA3946476AD4EB94672712B12A85F041FFC@ftmail.lab.flarion.com> <16312.64202.769515.896944@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <047301c3ad5e$285fe490$956015ac@dclkempt40> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.6claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi James, Monday 17 November 2003, James wrote: > Pete, > > > In MIP4, there may be less of an impact from multiple home addresses > > due to the absence of route optimization. However, IPv4 addresses are > > more precious than IPv6 addresses. That last fact seems to me to be > > the only reason why we would think about putting filters into a > > registration request. It seems much simpler for the application > > (using SIP or whatever) to advertise a particular home address to the > > CN. You could still handle mobility independently for each session, > > using Mobile IP along with the extra level of indirection supplied by > > the separate IP addresses. There is no need to build mobility into > > the application protocol. > > > > Agree with IPv4 addresses being scare as the main issue for doing flow > handoff at the home agent in MIPv4, but not sure about whether the RREQ is > the right place for filters. Seems like it is a generic middlebox problem > and should be approached using the same tools as for other middleboxes. I'm not at all sure that the reasoning about IPv4 address scarcity holds water. MIPv4 works with both HoAs and CoAs being private, behind NATs (even if we don't like'em... :) > > There may be a few unsolved issues with HAs allocating multiple > > addresses, but I think it could be handled easily with the use of > > multiple NAIs. I wrote a draft called the "Mobile IP Session > > Identifier Extension" some years back, but you could do the same thing > > with some sort of NAI-mangling naming convention > > Why would multiple NAIs be necessary if all the CoA to HoA mappings were > handled by one HA, as would be the case if the same service provider was > providing service on all CoAs? I agree that they would be necessary if the > the CoAs were provided by multiple service providers, but the flow handover > issue is just the tip of the iceberg in that case, IMHO. I don't think we can assume neither that the same service provder is providing service on all CoAs, nor that there is only one HA. If public WLAN hotspots vs. cellular vs. corporate WLAN is a typical scenario, I'd say it's actually quite unlikely. Henrik _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 17 23:44:24 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA22420 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 23:44:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALxig-0005yr-Ma for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 23:44:06 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAI4i6qo022985 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 23:44:06 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALxig-0005ye-IP for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 23:44:06 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA22395 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 23:43:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALxie-0005VA-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 23:44:04 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALxie-0005V6-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 23:44:04 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALxic-0005xD-1M; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 23:44:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALxiY-0005wV-1D for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 23:43:58 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA22376; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 23:43:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALxiV-0005Ue-00; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 23:43:55 -0500 Received: from mail.flarion.com ([63.103.94.23] helo=ftmail.lab.flarion.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALxiU-0005UT-00; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 23:43:54 -0500 Received: by ftmail.lab.flarion.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 23:43:22 -0500 Message-ID: <9E3BA3946476AD4EB94672712B12A85F041FFE@ftmail.lab.flarion.com> From: Soliman Hesham To: "'Henrik Levkowetz'" Cc: mip4@ietf.org, mip6@ietf.org Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 23:43:11 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Subject: [Mip6] RE: [Mip4] tying flow movement to MIP RE: [Mipshop] Minutes of Multiple Lin k Flows BAR BOF Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , > Mmm, I think mostly it'd be just one BU per CN, but I could > be wrong. I > also tried to think a little bit about the size of the filter update > packets, and I think the chances are they'd be larger than a > RRQ - and => I guess that depends on the solution. > you might not be able to avoid the RRQ's anyway! I think > that before we > go for a more complex solution instead of the simpler, we > need to do the > maths and see that the more complex, less general one really gives a > noticeable upside in reasonable scenarios? => Sure, I'm not sure what "less general" means though. Hesham > > Henrik > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Henrik Levkowetz [mailto:henrik@levkowetz.com] > > > Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 7:59 AM > > > To: Soliman Hesham > > > Cc: mip4@ietf.org; mip6@ietf.org > > > Subject: Re: [Mip4] tying flow movement to MIP RE: [Mipshop] > > > Minutes of > > > Multiple Lin k Flows BAR BOF > > > > > > > > > Hi Hesham, > > > > > > That's a pretty good summary. My own thinking on this, > > > after a bit > > > of discussion in Minneapolis, is that the MIP solution > which is the > > > least MIP-specific would be to have separate individual MIP > > > sessions for > > > each flow (or group of flows) we wanted to move > > > independently of other > > > flows. This takes care of the ability to treat flows > > > individually, and > > > it does so by providing separate Home IP-addresses for > those flows to > > > pass through. > > > > > > I also note that the flow groups, and their > IP-addresses, needs to be > > > established before individual user applications start up and > > > bind to the > > > individual HoAs - we have no way to signal most application > > > to re-bind > > > to a new IP-address. > > > > > > The cost of this solution is in having to do re-registration > > > of multiple > > > sessions when you move, but such a cost is already implicit > > > in the fact > > > that with multiple connections through different > connection media you > > > have to be able to handle each media individually, > whether it is by > > > separate sessions or by filter adaptations. But I > believe completely > > > separate sessions will adapt better to any other > > > non-movement-specific > > > solution to multihoming that may appear. > > > > > > Henrik > > > > > > Monday 17 November 2003, Hesham wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > Just wanted to drop a note on adding flow movement > > > > capabilities to MIP. > > > > > > > > I completely agree that adding new functions to > > > > MIP just because "it's there" does not make any sense, > > > > and that where a problem applies to both fixed and mobile > > > > hosts we should avoid fixing it in a mobility protocol. > > > > However, when it comes to flow movement, it is not immediately > > > > obvious to me that it is outside the scope of MIP. > > > > I'll try to break the problem down in an attempt to realise > > > > where each component belongs. > > > > > > > > The basic problem is that a node needs to decide what > > > > src address should be used by a particular connection. > > > > Forgetting about MIP for a minute, this is obvious when > > > > a host is trying to initiate communication with another host. > > > > Src address selection can be augmented with various policies > > > > (user-based or otherwise) to allow the host to pick the > > > > right src address. However, this is a bit more complex when > > > > a host is not the initiator of communication. This leads > > > > to sub-problem (1) > > > > (1) Informing the initiator of communication of the right > > > > dst address for the host on the other end. > > > > > > > > This information can be communicated implicitly or > explicitly. > > > > One possible example for implicitly informing the other end > > > > is through using different domain names (e.g. > audio.example.com > > > > returns a different address from video.example.com). On the > > > > other hand, explicit notification of the address can be done > > > > by using a protocol to negotiate a connection setup (e.g. SIP > > > > does this today). > > > > > > > > Not withstanding the example solutions above, sub-problem > > > > (1) is independent of any mobility and applies to any > > > > multi-addressed host. > > > > > > > > Once a connection is established, the right addresses are > > > > chosen by both ends, end of story. > > > > > > > > Now, the other aspect of the problem is this: Once a > connection > > > > is established, using a particular src and destination address > > > > pair, how can either host modify this information? In other > > > > words, if WLAN coverage suddenly appeared to my laptop, how > > > > do I inform the host on the other end to move one of our > > > > connections to WLAN, while leaving the other on the cellular > > > > interface? In a few words, I want to change the dst > address for > > > > a particular connection without breaking that connection. > > > > This requires a protocol to signal that to the other end. > > > > To me, this problem seems to fall into the IP > mobility category > > > > of problems, although it is addressing a finer granularity > > > > of mobility. > > > > Note that SIP also has signalling support for session > transfer, > > > > but: A) it was not intended for this purpose and B) it is > > > > not widely implemented and C) it is slower than an > "optimised" MIP > > > > (BTW neither A nor B discredits using SIP for this purpose). > > > > > > > > So sub-problem (2): > > > > (2) How to move a flow from one address to another. > > > > > > > > MIP efficiently solves this problem for a host, but it > > > > does not provide further granularity (i.e. connection > > > > or flow). > > > > > > > > Personally, I think sub-problem (2) is a mobility > > > > problem, by the definition of IP mobility. I believe > > > > that MIP solves two problems: maintaining current connections > > > > while moving, and reachability. > > > > "Moving" in the context of IP mobility effectively means > > > > changing IP address, independently of whether that change > > > > affects all flows or only one or two. > > > > > > > > My 2 cents! > > > > > > > > Hesham > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Mip4 mailing list > > > > Mip4@ietf.org > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip4 > > > > > > Henrik > > -- > Don't store garlic near other victuals. > _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Nov 17 23:55:22 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA22783 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 23:55:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALxtI-0006Xx-EX for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 23:55:04 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAI4t4qM025158 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 23:55:04 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALxtI-0006XT-7Y for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 23:55:04 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA22770 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 23:54:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALxtF-0005gk-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 23:55:01 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALxtF-0005gh-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 23:55:01 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALxtG-0006Wg-TR; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 23:55:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALxsJ-0006RO-Mx for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 23:54:03 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA22733; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 23:53:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALxsH-0005fX-00; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 23:54:01 -0500 Received: from mail.flarion.com ([63.103.94.23] helo=ftmail.lab.flarion.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALxsG-0005fB-00; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 23:54:00 -0500 Received: by ftmail.lab.flarion.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id ; Mon, 17 Nov 2003 23:53:32 -0500 Message-ID: <9E3BA3946476AD4EB94672712B12A85F041FFF@ftmail.lab.flarion.com> From: Soliman Hesham To: "'Pete McCann'" Cc: "'Henrik Levkowetz'" , mip4@ietf.org, mip6@ietf.org Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 23:53:21 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Subject: [Mip6] RE: [Mip4] tying flow movement to MIP RE: [Mipshop] Minutes of Multiple Lin k Flows BAR BOF Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Hi Pete, > So maybe what we need is an efficient way to handle multi-homed hosts > (hosts with multiple home addresses) in MIP6. This could be > something > like aggregation of BUs or other sorts of tricks. => That used to be in the draft for the HA BUs but was removed because it was difficult to achieve from a security point of view. I'm not sure that this is cleaner than just adding the flow movement extensions. Also another use of those extensions (that I didn't want to bring up yet) is for optimising the handover smoothing for different flows (buffer to eliminate packet loss Vs forward to eliminate delays). > In MIP4, there may be less of an impact from multiple home addresses > due to the absence of route optimization. However, IPv4 > addresses are > more precious than IPv6 addresses. That last fact seems to me to be > the only reason why we would think about putting filters into a > registration request. => In MIPv4 I agree. It seems much simpler for the application > (using SIP or whatever) to advertise a particular home address to the > CN. You could still handle mobility independently for each session, > using Mobile IP along with the extra level of indirection supplied by > the separate IP addresses. There is no need to build mobility into > the application protocol. => There is definitely no need to build mobility into the application protocol, I didn't suggest that. Having SIP advertise an address does not fix the problem when you want to move that connection from one interface to another as I explained in a previous email. The only way to do that today is to terminate the connection and restart it. I don't imagine that we'd want to do that. > > There may be a few unsolved issues with HAs allocating multiple > addresses, but I think it could be handled easily with the use of > multiple NAIs. I wrote a draft called the "Mobile IP Session > Identifier Extension" some years back, but you could do the > same thing > with some sort of NAI-mangling naming convention > (H.Soliman1@flarion.com, H.Soliman2@flarion.com, etc...). => I remember that, it was presented in Adelaide I think. I thought it was worth pursuing back then. Anyway, now we're discussing solution space, I just wanted to highlight the problem. At the moment it's probably a bit premature to decide that one solution is _the_ one (hence I'm being the devil's advocate either way you go :) ). If this topic is important to the WGs perhaps we should do a proper investigation. Hesham > > -Pete > > Soliman Hesham writes: > > Hi Henrik, > > > > It's certainly _a_ solution. And definitely a simple one. > > But I would view this as being very expensive for MIPv6. Assuming > > 2 HoAs, in the worst case scenario the MN could end up sending two > > BUs to the HA and two to each CN that knows about both > > HoAs. I think this is too expensive, especially if MIP > > is being used to manage mobility proper. > > For MIPv4 it's not as expensive, but sending two different > > RREQs upon movement can still be expensive from the > > edge of a cell, given the sizes of those messages. > > > > Hesham > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Henrik Levkowetz [mailto:henrik@levkowetz.com] > > > Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 7:59 AM > > > To: Soliman Hesham > > > Cc: mip4@ietf.org; mip6@ietf.org > > > Subject: Re: [Mip4] tying flow movement to MIP RE: [Mipshop] > > > Minutes of > > > Multiple Lin k Flows BAR BOF > > > > > > > > > Hi Hesham, > > > > > > That's a pretty good summary. My own thinking on this, > > > after a bit > > > of discussion in Minneapolis, is that the MIP solution > which is the > > > least MIP-specific would be to have separate individual MIP > > > sessions for > > > each flow (or group of flows) we wanted to move > > > independently of other > > > flows. This takes care of the ability to treat flows > > > individually, and > > > it does so by providing separate Home IP-addresses for > those flows to > > > pass through. > > > > > > I also note that the flow groups, and their > IP-addresses, needs to be > > > established before individual user applications start up and > > > bind to the > > > individual HoAs - we have no way to signal most application > > > to re-bind > > > to a new IP-address. > > > > > > The cost of this solution is in having to do re-registration > > > of multiple > > > sessions when you move, but such a cost is already implicit > > > in the fact > > > that with multiple connections through different > connection media you > > > have to be able to handle each media individually, > whether it is by > > > separate sessions or by filter adaptations. But I > believe completely > > > separate sessions will adapt better to any other > > > non-movement-specific > > > solution to multihoming that may appear. > > > > > > Henrik > > > > > > Monday 17 November 2003, Hesham wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > Just wanted to drop a note on adding flow movement > > > > capabilities to MIP. > > > > > > > > I completely agree that adding new functions to > > > > MIP just because "it's there" does not make any sense, > > > > and that where a problem applies to both fixed and mobile > > > > hosts we should avoid fixing it in a mobility protocol. > > > > However, when it comes to flow movement, it is not > immediately > > > > obvious to me that it is outside the scope of MIP. > > > > I'll try to break the problem down in an attempt to realise > > > > where each component belongs. > > > > > > > > The basic problem is that a node needs to decide what > > > > src address should be used by a particular connection. > > > > Forgetting about MIP for a minute, this is obvious when > > > > a host is trying to initiate communication with another host. > > > > Src address selection can be augmented with various policies > > > > (user-based or otherwise) to allow the host to pick the > > > > right src address. However, this is a bit more complex when > > > > a host is not the initiator of communication. This leads > > > > to sub-problem (1) > > > > (1) Informing the initiator of communication of the right > > > > dst address for the host on the other end. > > > > > > > > This information can be communicated implicitly or > explicitly. > > > > One possible example for implicitly informing the other end > > > > is through using different domain names (e.g. > audio.example.com > > > > returns a different address from video.example.com). On the > > > > other hand, explicit notification of the address can be done > > > > by using a protocol to negotiate a connection setup (e.g. SIP > > > > does this today). > > > > > > > > Not withstanding the example solutions above, sub-problem > > > > (1) is independent of any mobility and applies to any > > > > multi-addressed host. > > > > > > > > Once a connection is established, the right addresses are > > > > chosen by both ends, end of story. > > > > > > > > Now, the other aspect of the problem is this: Once a > connection > > > > is established, using a particular src and > destination address > > > > pair, how can either host modify this information? In other > > > > words, if WLAN coverage suddenly appeared to my laptop, how > > > > do I inform the host on the other end to move one of our > > > > connections to WLAN, while leaving the other on the cellular > > > > interface? In a few words, I want to change the dst > address for > > > > a particular connection without breaking that connection. > > > > This requires a protocol to signal that to the other end. > > > > To me, this problem seems to fall into the IP > mobility category > > > > of problems, although it is addressing a finer granularity > > > > of mobility. > > > > Note that SIP also has signalling support for > session transfer, > > > > but: A) it was not intended for this purpose and B) it is > > > > not widely implemented and C) it is slower than an > "optimised" MIP > > > > (BTW neither A nor B discredits using SIP for this purpose). > > > > > > > > So sub-problem (2): > > > > (2) How to move a flow from one address to another. > > > > > > > > MIP efficiently solves this problem for a host, but it > > > > does not provide further granularity (i.e. connection > > > > or flow). > > > > > > > > Personally, I think sub-problem (2) is a mobility > > > > problem, by the definition of IP mobility. I believe > > > > that MIP solves two problems: maintaining current connections > > > > while moving, and reachability. > > > > "Moving" in the context of IP mobility effectively means > > > > changing IP address, independently of whether that change > > > > affects all flows or only one or two. > > > > > > > > My 2 cents! > > > > > > > > Hesham > _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 18 01:02:23 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA24053 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 01:02:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALyw8-0000aP-EP for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 01:02:04 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAI624qF002245 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 01:02:04 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALyw8-0000a8-5j for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 01:02:04 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA24025 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 01:01:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALyw5-0006OC-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 01:02:01 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALyw4-0006O9-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 01:02:00 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALyw6-0000ZM-E4; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 01:02:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALyvy-0000XC-Sk for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 01:01:54 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA24019; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 01:01:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALyvv-0006Nu-00; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 01:01:51 -0500 Received: from shonan.sfc.wide.ad.jp ([203.178.142.130]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALyvu-0006Ne-00; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 01:01:50 -0500 Received: from galibier.nautilus6.org (unknown [203.178.138.3]) by shonan.sfc.wide.ad.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F9455D095; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 15:01:20 +0900 (JST) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 14:55:49 +0900 From: Thierry Ernst To: Henrik Levkowetz Cc: kempf@docomolabs-usa.com, mip4@ietf.org, mip6@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Mip6] RE: [Mip4] tying flow movement to MIP RE: [Mipshop] Minutes of Multiple Lin k Flows BAR BOF Message-Id: <20031118145549.0455aa30.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> In-Reply-To: <20031118010124.4d89dabe.henrik@levkowetz.com> References: <9E3BA3946476AD4EB94672712B12A85F041FFC@ftmail.lab.flarion.com> <16312.64202.769515.896944@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <047301c3ad5e$285fe490$956015ac@dclkempt40> <20031118010124.4d89dabe.henrik@levkowetz.com> Organization: Keio University X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.8.11 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i686-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, > > Why would multiple NAIs be necessary if all the CoA to HoA mappings were > > handled by one HA, as would be the case if the same service provider was > > providing service on all CoAs? I agree that they would be necessary if the > > the CoAs were provided by multiple service providers, but the flow handover > > issue is just the tip of the iceberg in that case, IMHO. > > I don't think we can assume neither that the same service provder is > providing service on all CoAs, nor that there is only one HA. If public > WLAN hotspots vs. cellular vs. corporate WLAN is a typical scenario, > I'd say it's actually quite unlikely. I agree with that, the benefit of multihoming would be moot if we assume a single HA or single ISP (= single point of failures). Such assumptions does not hold in face of the multihoming scenarios, as identified in draft-montavont-mobileip-multihoming-pb-statement. Thierry. _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 18 01:14:21 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA24281 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 01:14:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALz7i-0001GI-QT for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 01:14:02 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAI6E271004844 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 01:14:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALz7i-0001G3-Lg for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 01:14:02 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA24269 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 01:13:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALz7f-0006Tn-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 01:13:59 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALz7f-0006Ti-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 01:13:59 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALz7h-0001FX-J6; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 01:14:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ALz6r-0001EB-98 for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 01:13:09 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA24253; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 01:12:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALz6o-0006TP-00; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 01:13:06 -0500 Received: from mail.flarion.com ([63.103.94.23] helo=ftmail.lab.flarion.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ALz6n-0006TM-00; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 01:13:05 -0500 Received: by ftmail.lab.flarion.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id ; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 01:12:33 -0500 Message-ID: <9E3BA3946476AD4EB94672712B12A85F042004@ftmail.lab.flarion.com> From: Soliman Hesham To: "'James Kempf'" , mip4@ietf.org, mip6@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Mip6] tying flow movement to MIP RE: [Mipshop] Minutes of M ultiple Lin k Flows BAR BOF Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 01:12:20 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Hi James, > This is a little bit different perspective than the one I've > been coming at > this from. If I understand you correctly, you seem to be > assuming that the > correspondent node has knowledge of the additional care of addresses > available to the mobile node, correct? => Not initially. The CN (in MIPv6) can only know that if RO was already done. > i.e. the mobile node tells the correspondent to move a > particular flow to a > different care of address using a binding update that is > somehow enhanced to > indicate which flow should be handed off (perhaps a use for > the new flow > label work in the IPv6 WG?) => That's _a_ solution for sub-problem (2). This is basically how we tried to solve this part in our draft. The flow label is one way, you could also use the port numbers and IP addresses. instead of handing off all flows. This is > certainly much cleaner than treating the home agent as a > middlebox and > trying to accomplish the flow handoff there. => Yes but if you want to aggregate this BU by sending one to the HA/MAP and getting the flows split there, things would certainly be more efficient in terms of signalling overhead. It would also be quicker. > However, for MIPv4, this won't work because there is no > route optimization. > Flow handoff will have to occur at the home agent. And, any > indication of > which flow to handoff will probably require looking into the > transport > header to determine the port number, the kind of thing > typically done by > firewalls and NATs in IPv4. => And routers ;) they do for traffic engineering. This is decidedly less > appealing, because it > involves middlebox functionality on the home agent. => Actually, it's already there today. If > that's the case, then > the issue is what should the signaling look like between the > mobile node and > home-agent-as-middlebox to accomplish the flow handoff? => Yes that's one issue. As we start looking at solutions i'm sure there will be more issues. Hesham _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 18 05:05:27 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA12510 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 05:05:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AM2jN-0006v8-2T for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 05:05:09 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAIA59tb026602 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 05:05:09 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AM2jM-0006uw-Kx for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 05:05:08 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA12406 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 05:04:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AM2jJ-0001iv-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 05:05:05 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AM2jI-0001is-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 05:05:04 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AM2jG-0006td-Ja; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 05:05:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AM2iL-0006aX-2f for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 05:04:05 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA12328 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 05:03:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AM2iH-0001g3-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 05:04:01 -0500 Received: from iramx2.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de ([141.3.10.81]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AM2iH-0001fx-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 05:04:01 -0500 Received: from irams1.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de ([141.3.10.5] helo=irams1.ira.uka.de) by iramx2.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de with esmtp (Exim 3.30 #10 (Debian)) id 1AM2iB-0005Xt-00; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 11:03:55 +0100 Received: from i72tobias.tm.uni-karlsruhe.de ([141.3.71.75] helo=i72tobias) by irams1.ira.uka.de with esmtp (Exim 3.30 #7 (Debian)) id 1AM2iB-0002ev-00; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 11:03:55 +0100 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Tobias_K=FCfner?= To: Cc: Subject: AW: [Mip6] A Question on Mobile IPv6 -- Alternate Care-of Address option Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 11:04:25 +0100 Message-ID: <000501c3adbb$6acc0130$4b47038d@tm.unikarlsruhe.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 In-Reply-To: <3FB84EC7.6090709@eng.monash.edu.au> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Greg, > In HMIPv6 this is OK, if we want to send the alt-coa BU > from the on-link care-of-address of the MN. the RR has to > be done over the MAP tunnel though. I don't really understand the motivation for using=20 the alternate CoA option in HMIPv6. Please, help me. If the MN can't use its RCoA as a topologically=20 correct source address, (1) it must send/receive CoTI/CoT=20 over MAP tunnel and (2) the payload packets from/to the CN must also be tunneled by/to the MAP. So what is the benefit from sending the BU *directly* to the CN [HA] using the LCoA as source address? I can't find any situation in the HMIPv6-draft in which the MN "SHOULD" or "MUST" use the alternate CoA option. Do such situations exist? If so, would you give me examples, please? Sorry, if I'm missing something obvious. Tobias _____________ Tobias K=FCfner Institute of Telematics, University of Karlsruhe, Germany _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 18 08:00:29 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA19399 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 08:00:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AM5Si-000254-9l for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 08:00:09 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAID08ul007997 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 08:00:08 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AM5Sh-00024u-D2 for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 08:00:07 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA19368 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 07:59:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AM5Sg-0004gI-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 08:00:06 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AM5Sg-0004gF-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 08:00:06 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AM5Sc-000244-Vb; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 08:00:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AM5SO-00023X-Si for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 07:59:49 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA19344 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 07:59:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AM5SN-0004fy-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 07:59:47 -0500 Received: from clarinet.u-strasbg.fr ([130.79.90.157]) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AM5SM-0004ft-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 07:59:46 -0500 Received: (qmail 18477 invoked for bounce); 18 Nov 2003 12:59:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO clarinet.u-strasbg.fr) (montavont@unknown) by unknown with SMTP; 18 Nov 2003 12:59:53 -0000 Message-ID: <3FBA17B4.1060006@clarinet.u-strasbg.fr> Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 13:59:32 +0100 From: Nicolas Montavont User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030723 Thunderbird/0.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Henrik Levkowetz CC: Soliman Hesham , mip4@ietf.org, mip6@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Mip6] Re: [Mip4] tying flow movement to MIP RE: [Mipshop] Minutes of Multiple Lin k Flows BAR BOF References: <9E3BA3946476AD4EB94672712B12A85F041FFA@ftmail.lab.flarion.com> <20031117135844.3e7af1b2.henrik@levkowetz.com> In-Reply-To: <20031117135844.3e7af1b2.henrik@levkowetz.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Henrik Levkowetz wrote: >Hi Hesham, > > That's a pretty good summary. My own thinking on this, after a bit >of discussion in Minneapolis, is that the MIP solution which is the >least MIP-specific would be to have separate individual MIP sessions for >each flow (or group of flows) we wanted to move independently of other >flows. This takes care of the ability to treat flows individually, and >it does so by providing separate Home IP-addresses for those flows to >pass through. > I personnally don't agree with that point. First point, it is not sure that a MN can benefit of having as many HoAs as he wants. But, considering the solution of using multiple HoAs, at the initialization of the flow, you should choose the right HoA. If it is the MN which initiates the flow, it is easier, but it may be difficult if it already has many flows: on which criteria the MN will group several flows to be mapped to a HoA, or which criteria tells to MN to use a new HoA for the new flow ? If it is the CN which initiates the communication, it is even more difficult, how can he choose (or even discover ??) the HoA of the MN ? Secondly, if you want to individually manage two flows bound to the same HoA with the same CN (probably you choose the wrong HoA or your preferences had changed), so as you said you have to re-initiate the communication, that means the communication is broken. If we have a way to maintain this communication, why don't use it ? The draft draft-montavont-mip6-mmi-01 (available at http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-montavont-mip6-mmi-01.txt) details the different levels of granularity of the mobility (and particulary the limitation of the use of multiple HoAs to manage several flows). The document tries to explain the pros and the cons of each level of granularity. > >I also note that the flow groups, and their IP-addresses, needs to be >established before individual user applications start up and bind to the >individual HoAs - we have no way to signal most application to re-bind >to a new IP-address. > >The cost of this solution is in having to do re-registration of multiple >sessions when you move, but such a cost is already implicit in the fact >that with multiple connections through different connection media you >have to be able to handle each media individually, whether it is by >separate sessions or by filter adaptations. But I believe completely >separate sessions will adapt better to any other non-movement-specific >solution to multihoming that may appear. > > Henrik > >Monday 17 November 2003, Hesham wrote: > > >>Hi, >> >>Just wanted to drop a note on adding flow movement >>capabilities to MIP. >> >>I completely agree that adding new functions to >>MIP just because "it's there" does not make any sense, >>and that where a problem applies to both fixed and mobile >>hosts we should avoid fixing it in a mobility protocol. >>However, when it comes to flow movement, it is not immediately >>obvious to me that it is outside the scope of MIP. >>I'll try to break the problem down in an attempt to realise >>where each component belongs. >> >>The basic problem is that a node needs to decide what >>src address should be used by a particular connection. >>Forgetting about MIP for a minute, this is obvious when >>a host is trying to initiate communication with another host. >>Src address selection can be augmented with various policies >>(user-based or otherwise) to allow the host to pick the >>right src address. However, this is a bit more complex when >>a host is not the initiator of communication. This leads >>to sub-problem (1) >> (1) Informing the initiator of communication of the right >> dst address for the host on the other end. >> >>This information can be communicated implicitly or explicitly. >>One possible example for implicitly informing the other end >>is through using different domain names (e.g. audio.example.com >>returns a different address from video.example.com). On the >>other hand, explicit notification of the address can be done >>by using a protocol to negotiate a connection setup (e.g. SIP >>does this today). >> >>Not withstanding the example solutions above, sub-problem >>(1) is independent of any mobility and applies to any >>multi-addressed host. >> >>Once a connection is established, the right addresses are >>chosen by both ends, end of story. >> >>Now, the other aspect of the problem is this: Once a connection >>is established, using a particular src and destination address >>pair, how can either host modify this information? In other >>words, if WLAN coverage suddenly appeared to my laptop, how >>do I inform the host on the other end to move one of our >>connections to WLAN, while leaving the other on the cellular >>interface? In a few words, I want to change the dst address for >>a particular connection without breaking that connection. >>This requires a protocol to signal that to the other end. >>To me, this problem seems to fall into the IP mobility category >>of problems, although it is addressing a finer granularity >>of mobility. >>Note that SIP also has signalling support for session transfer, >>but: A) it was not intended for this purpose and B) it is >>not widely implemented and C) it is slower than an "optimised" MIP >>(BTW neither A nor B discredits using SIP for this purpose). >> >>So sub-problem (2): >> (2) How to move a flow from one address to another. >> >>MIP efficiently solves this problem for a host, but it >>does not provide further granularity (i.e. connection >>or flow). >> >>Personally, I think sub-problem (2) is a mobility >>problem, by the definition of IP mobility. I believe >>that MIP solves two problems: maintaining current connections >>while moving, and reachability. >>"Moving" in the context of IP mobility effectively means >>changing IP address, independently of whether that change >>affects all flows or only one or two. >> >>My 2 cents! >> >>Hesham >> >> >> >> >>-- >>Mip4 mailing list >>Mip4@ietf.org >>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip4 >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >Mip6 mailing list >Mip6@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 > > _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 18 08:49:22 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA20674 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 08:49:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AM6E2-0005je-K7 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 08:49:03 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAIDn2Gg022040 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 08:49:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AM6E2-0005jP-Ed for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 08:49:02 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA20662 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 08:48:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AM6E1-0005Ua-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 08:49:01 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AM6E0-0005UV-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 08:49:00 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AM6E1-0005iR-77; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 08:49:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AM6DL-0005hA-5u for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 08:48:19 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA20646; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 08:48:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AM6DJ-0005U0-00; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 08:48:17 -0500 Received: from out4.prserv.net ([32.97.166.34] helo=prserv.net) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AM6DI-0005Ta-00; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 08:48:16 -0500 Received: from attglobal.net (slip-32-103-176-216.il.us.prserv.net[32.103.176.216]) by prserv.net (out4) with SMTP id <2003111813474320402sve1ee>; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 13:47:45 +0000 Message-ID: <3FBA2326.7090905@attglobal.net> Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 07:48:22 -0600 From: Sebastian Thalanany User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Thierry Ernst CC: Henrik Levkowetz , kempf@docomolabs-usa.com, mip4@ietf.org, mip6@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Mip6] RE: [Mip4] tying flow movement to MIP RE: [Mipshop] Minutes of Multiple Lin k Flows BAR BOF References: <9E3BA3946476AD4EB94672712B12A85F041FFC@ftmail.lab.flarion.com> <16312.64202.769515.896944@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <047301c3ad5e$285fe490$956015ac@dclkempt40> <20031118010124.4d89dabe.henrik@levkowetz.com> <20031118145549.0455aa30.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> In-Reply-To: <20031118145549.0455aa30.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------040203010804080302050705" Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------040203010804080302050705 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Thierry, For supporting multilink flows we cannot assume only one HA. From a service provision perspective, geographic redundancy is preferred to avoid single point failure impacts on service delivery. I agree with your observations. Regards, Sebastian Thierry Ernst wrote: >Hi, > > > >>>Why would multiple NAIs be necessary if all the CoA to HoA mappings were >>>handled by one HA, as would be the case if the same service provider was >>>providing service on all CoAs? I agree that they would be necessary if the >>>the CoAs were provided by multiple service providers, but the flow handover >>>issue is just the tip of the iceberg in that case, IMHO. >>> >>> >>I don't think we can assume neither that the same service provder is >>providing service on all CoAs, nor that there is only one HA. If public >>WLAN hotspots vs. cellular vs. corporate WLAN is a typical scenario, >>I'd say it's actually quite unlikely. >> >> > >I agree with that, the benefit of multihoming would be moot if we assume >a single HA or single ISP (= single point of failures). Such assumptions >does not hold in face of the multihoming scenarios, as identified in >draft-montavont-mobileip-multihoming-pb-statement. > >Thierry. > > > --------------040203010804080302050705 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Thierry,
                    For supporting multilink flows we cannot assume only one HA. From a service provision perspective, geographic redundancy is preferred to avoid single point failure impacts on service delivery. I agree with your observations.

Regards,
    Sebastian

Thierry Ernst wrote:
Hi,

  
Why would multiple NAIs be necessary if all the CoA to HoA mappings were
handled by one HA, as would be the case if the same service provider was
providing service on all CoAs? I agree that they would be necessary if the
the CoAs were provided by multiple service providers, but the flow handover
issue is just the tip of the iceberg in that case, IMHO.
      
I don't think we can assume neither that the same service provder is
providing service on all CoAs, nor that there is only one HA. If public
WLAN hotspots vs. cellular vs. corporate WLAN is a typical scenario, 
I'd say it's actually quite unlikely.
    

I agree with that, the benefit of multihoming would be moot if we assume
a single HA or single ISP (= single point of failures). Such assumptions
does not hold in face of the multihoming scenarios, as identified in
draft-montavont-mobileip-multihoming-pb-statement.

Thierry.
--------------040203010804080302050705-- _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 18 10:15:23 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA25060 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 10:15:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AM7ZJ-0001ZJ-3X for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 10:15:06 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAIFF5Si006023 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 10:15:05 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AM7ZI-0001Z4-Td for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 10:15:04 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA25000 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 10:14:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AM7ZG-0006hJ-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 10:15:02 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AM7ZG-0006hG-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 10:15:02 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AM7ZF-0001Xc-Tb; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 10:15:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AM7YW-0001W7-LF for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 10:14:16 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA24913 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 10:14:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AM7YU-0006gX-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 10:14:14 -0500 Received: from manatick.foretec.com ([4.17.168.5] helo=manatick) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AM7YT-0006gU-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 10:14:13 -0500 Received: from [81.199.84.81] (helo=2mails696.com) by manatick with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1AM7YR-0000zj-6R for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 10:14:12 -0500 From: "ALHAJI SULEMAN DANTATA." 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ASSISTANCE OF OUR WELL WISHERS=2E IN VIEW OF THIS PLIGHT THEREFORE=2C I EXPECT YOU TO BE TRUST WORTHY AND KIND ENOUGH TO RESPOND TO MY MAIL TO SAVE MY FAMILY AND I FROM A HOPELESS FUTURE=2E I HEREBY AGREE TO CONPENSATE YOUR SINCERE AND CANDID EFFORT IN THIS REGARD WITH 20% OF THE FUND WHEN FINALLY RECEIVED IN YOUR PERSONAL BANK ACCOUNT=2EMY LAWYER WILL MAKE EVERY ARRENGMENTS TO EFFECT COMPLETE DISLODGMENT OF THIS MONEY WITHIN A WEEK OF THE RECEIPT OF YOUR RESPONSE THROUGH E-MAIL=2EPLEASE=2C ALL CONTACT ON PHONE MUST BE THROUGH OUR FAMILY LAWYER- OR MY PERSONAL ASSISTANCE WHILE YOU COMMUNICATE WITH ME ON EMAIL AS I AND MY FAMILY MEMBER IS BEEN HEAVELY MONITORED BY THE GOVERNMENT=2E I WILL ALSO FORWARD THE EMAIL AND PHONE NUMBER OF MY FAMILY AFTER YOUR RESPONSE=2E I LOOK FORWARD TO YOUR QUICK RESPONSE=2E MAY ALLAH BLESS YOU=2E BEST WISHES=2C MRS=2E MARIAM ABACHA =28WIDOW=29=2E NB=3A PLEASE I WILL WANT YOU TO GO THROUGH THE FOLLOWING WEBSITE INOTHER TO CONFIRM MORE ON THE ISSUES OF THE ABACHA AND THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT SEIZURE AND FROZON ON THE ABACHA'S WEALTH=2E http=3A=2F=2Fnews=2Ebbc=2Eco=2Euk=2F1=2Fhi=2Fworld=2Fafrica=2F877113=2Estm http=3A=2F=2Fnews=2Ebbc=2Eco=2Euk=2F1=2Fhi=2Fworld=2Fafrica=2F909972=2Estm http=3A=2F=2Fwww=2Emarcosbillions=2Ecom=2Fmarcos=2FDictators%20Abacha=2Ehtm _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 18 11:34:22 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA28912 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 11:34:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AM8nj-00067G-K3 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 11:34:04 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAIGY3uN023498 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 11:34:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AM8nj-00066m-CI for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 11:34:03 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA28855 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 11:33:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AM8ni-0000Hp-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 11:34:02 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AM8nh-0000Hk-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 11:34:01 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AM8nh-00065R-B4; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 11:34:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AM8mp-00064I-5G for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 11:33:07 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA28763; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 11:32:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AM8mo-0000GS-00; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 11:33:06 -0500 Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com ([144.254.74.5]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AM8mn-0000GF-00; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 11:33:05 -0500 Received: from cisco.com (144.254.74.60) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 18 Nov 2003 17:30:04 +0100 Received: from xbe-lon-312.cisco.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ams-msg-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.6) with ESMTP id hAIGWMp6002841; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 17:32:23 +0100 (MET) Received: from xbe-lon-313.cisco.com ([64.103.99.73]) by xbe-lon-312.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5329); Tue, 18 Nov 2003 16:32:33 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [Mip6] RE: [Mip4] tying flow movement to MIP RE: [Mipshop] Minutes of Multiple Lin k Flows BAR BOF Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 16:32:32 -0000 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [Mip6] RE: [Mip4] tying flow movement to MIP RE: [Mipshop] Minutes of Multiple Lin k Flows BAR BOF Thread-Index: AcOt2skp981/qY9ZQL+EJJJceH/aKAAFUzwg From: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" To: "Sebastian Thalanany" , "Thierry Ernst" Cc: "Henrik Levkowetz" , , , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Nov 2003 16:32:33.0011 (UTC) FILETIME=[91215430:01C3ADF1] Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >>=A0 For supporting multilink flows we cannot assume only one HA. From = a service provision perspective, geographic redundancy is preferred to = avoid single point failure impacts on service delivery. I agree with = your observations. Part of HAHA protocol for MIP6 is to sync the geo-distributed HAs = (proactively, reactively or predictively). Hopefully HAHA is a step = towards multihoming, so understanding the associated requirements seems = critical. The way I see it: MIPv6: Basic Nemo: HAHA geodis: = Multihoming: =20 Link centric half and half Fully L3, single Home location = full distribution -------------------------------------------------------------------------= -------------------> What do you think? Pascal =20 _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 18 11:38:24 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA29365 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 11:38:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AM8rd-0006qF-46 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 11:38:05 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAIGc4hv026290 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 11:38:04 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AM8rc-0006pK-MS for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 11:38:04 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA29274 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 11:37:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AM8rb-0000PP-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 11:38:03 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AM8rb-0000PM-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 11:38:03 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AM8ra-0006nZ-Jb; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 11:38:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AM8rZ-0006mm-1u for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 11:38:01 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA29261; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 11:37:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AM8rX-0000P3-00; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 11:37:59 -0500 Received: from mail-red.bigfish.com ([216.148.222.61] helo=mail3-red-R.bigfish.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AM8rW-0000Ny-00; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 11:37:58 -0500 Received: from mail3-red.bigfish.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail3-red-R.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89EF813FC7D; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 16:37:27 +0000 (UCT) Received: by mail3-red (MessageSwitch) id 1069173447209466_15324; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 16:37:27 +0000 (UCT) Received: from smtpgw6.it.sprintspectrum.com (smtpgw6.sprintspectrum.com [207.40.188.14]) by mail3-red.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E945013FFA3; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 16:36:32 +0000 (UCT) Received: from mailhost.sprintspectrum.com (smtpgw7.it.sprintspectrum.com [207.40.65.55]) by smtpgw6.it.sprintspectrum.com (8.12.10/8.12.8) with ESMTP id hAIGaWie003049; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 10:36:32 -0600 (CST) Received: from PDAWG02A.corp.sprint.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailhost.sprintspectrum.com (Switch-2.2.8/Switch-2.2.8) with ESMTP id hAIGaVG08483; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 10:36:31 -0600 (CST) Received: from pkdwb06c.ad.sprint.com ([10.185.12.46]) by PDAWG02A.corp.sprint.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Tue, 18 Nov 2003 10:36:11 -0600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C3ADF2.131C2F18" Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 10:36:11 -0600 Message-ID: <94E0A1233A0CE24D9942722ADADDC56902684E91@PKDWB06C.ad.sprint.com> Thread-Topic: subscribe Thread-Index: AcOt8hL0dZx4WnB+SoWqvQ2nKd/hRw== From: "Anderson, Leo R JR [NTWK SVCS]" To: , , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Nov 2003 16:36:11.0992 (UTC) FILETIME=[13A72D80:01C3ADF2] X-BigFish: pcv Subject: [Mip6] subscribe Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C3ADF2.131C2F18 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subscribe lander06@sprintspectrum.com =20 Leo Anderson | office 913 794 3847 | mobile 913 706 6472 Sprint | Technology Development | Transport, Switching & Routing Technology Development (TSRTD) =20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C3ADF2.131C2F18 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Subscribe = lander06@sprintspectrum.com

 

Leo Anderson | office 913 794 3847 | mobile 913 706 = 6472

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=00 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C3ADF2.131C2F18-- _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 18 15:07:24 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA10958 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 15:07:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMC7v-0003an-DE for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 15:07:07 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAIK77EO013805 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 15:07:07 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMC7t-0003a4-W2 for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 15:07:06 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA10874 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 15:06:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMC7q-0004Yd-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 15:07:02 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMC7p-0004YY-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 15:07:01 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMC7p-0003X2-9f; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 15:07:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMC6z-0003Vi-FF for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 15:06:09 -0500 Received: from CNRI.Reston.VA.US (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA10732; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 15:05:55 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200311182005.PAA10732@ietf.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" To: IETF-Announce: ; From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Cc: mip6@ietf.org Reply-to: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 15:05:55 -0500 Subject: [Mip6] I-D ACTION:draft-deng-mip6-ha-loadbalance-00.txt Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. Title : Load Balance for Distributed Home Agents in Mobile IPv6 Author(s) : H. Deng Filename : draft-deng-mip6-ha-loadbalance-00.txt Pages : 0 Date : 2003-11-18 This document specifies the load balance of mechanism which take account of not only the mobile node registration information but also data the tunneled data traffic information to effectively release and prevent the formation of the traffic bottleneck at the home agent. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-deng-mip6-ha-loadbalance-00.txt To remove yourself from the IETF Announcement list, send a message to ietf-announce-request with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-deng-mip6-ha-loadbalance-00.txt". 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Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2003-11-18124034.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-deng-mip6-ha-loadbalance-00.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-deng-mip6-ha-loadbalance-00.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2003-11-18124034.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 18 15:41:25 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA14514 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 15:41:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMCem-0006hi-U2 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 15:41:06 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAIKf4to025771 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 15:41:04 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMCem-0006hY-Ks for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 15:41:04 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA14479 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 15:40:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMCel-0005PI-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 15:41:03 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMCek-0005PE-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 15:41:02 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMCek-0006gj-6Z; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 15:41:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMCdp-0006fa-Q7 for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 15:40:05 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA14383; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 15:39:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMCdn-0005NK-00; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 15:40:03 -0500 Received: from out1.prserv.net ([32.97.166.31] helo=prserv.net) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMCdn-0005Lw-00; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 15:40:03 -0500 Received: from attglobal.net (slip-32-103-178-133.il.us.prserv.net[32.103.178.133]) by prserv.net (out1) with SMTP id <2003111820391520106jr60de>; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 20:39:17 +0000 Message-ID: <3FBA8399.2030709@attglobal.net> Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 14:39:53 -0600 From: Sebastian Thalanany User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" CC: Thierry Ernst , Henrik Levkowetz , kempf@docomolabs-usa.com, mip4@ietf.org, mip6@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Mip6] RE: [Mip4] tying flow movement to MIP RE: [Mipshop] Minutes of Multiple Lin k Flows BAR BOF References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------010608020909020905050806" Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------010608020909020905050806 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Pascal, The scenarios identified in the problem statement: "draft-montavont-mobileip-multihoming-pb-statement.txt" seem reasonable. Evaluating the requirements for geo-distributed HAs would be a part of a multihoming solution to avoid single point failures. Regards, Sebastian Pascal Thubert (pthubert) wrote: >>> For supporting multilink flows we cannot assume only one HA. From a service provision perspective, geographic redundancy is preferred to avoid single point failure impacts on service delivery. I agree with your observations. >>> >>> > >Part of HAHA protocol for MIP6 is to sync the geo-distributed HAs (proactively, reactively or predictively). Hopefully HAHA is a step towards multihoming, so understanding the associated requirements seems critical. > >The way I see it: > >MIPv6: Basic Nemo: HAHA geodis: Multihoming: >Link centric half and half Fully L3, single Home location full distribution > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------> > >What do you think? > >Pascal > > > --------------010608020909020905050806 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Pascal,
                   The scenarios identified in the problem statement: "draft-montavont-mobileip-multihoming-pb-statement.txt" seem reasonable. Evaluating the requirements for geo-distributed HAs would be a part of a multihoming solution to avoid single point failures.

Regards,
   Sebastian


Pascal Thubert (pthubert) wrote:
  For supporting multilink flows we cannot assume only one HA. From a service provision perspective, geographic redundancy is preferred to avoid single point failure impacts on service delivery. I agree with your observations.
      

Part of HAHA protocol for MIP6 is to sync the geo-distributed HAs (proactively, reactively or predictively). Hopefully HAHA is a step towards multihoming, so understanding the associated requirements seems critical.

The way I see it:

MIPv6:             Basic Nemo:         HAHA geodis:                        Multihoming:           
Link centric       half and half       Fully L3, single Home location      full distribution

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------->

What do you think?

Pascal
--------------010608020909020905050806-- _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 18 18:53:20 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA26431 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 18:53:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMFea-0001zL-2y for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 18:53:04 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAINr4Zi007639 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 18:53:04 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMFeZ-0001z4-Gy for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 18:53:03 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA26427 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 18:52:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMFeW-0002tL-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 18:53:00 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMFeV-0002tI-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 18:52:59 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMFeY-0001yT-16; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 18:53:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMFeS-0001xo-Mw for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 18:52:56 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA26420 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 18:52:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMFeP-0002t7-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 18:52:53 -0500 Received: from alpha6.its.monash.edu.au ([130.194.1.25]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMFeO-0002t2-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 18:52:53 -0500 Received: from localhost ([130.194.13.85]) by vaxc.its.monash.edu.au (PMDF V6.1 #39306) with ESMTP id <01L37OVLZ9108ZQ8P9@vaxc.its.monash.edu.au> for mip6@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 10:51:33 +1100 Received: from broink.its.monash.edu.au (localhost.its.monash.edu.au [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55907158006; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 10:51:33 +1100 (EST) Received: from eng.monash.edu.au (knuth.eng.monash.edu.au [130.194.252.110]) by broink.its.monash.edu.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24403120003; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 10:51:33 +1100 (EST) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 10:51:33 +1100 From: Greg Daley Subject: Re: AW: [Mip6] A Question on Mobile IPv6 -- Alternate Care-of Address option To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Tobias_K=FCfner?= Cc: mip6@ietf.org Reply-to: greg.daley@eng.monash.edu.au Message-id: <3FBAB085.5060408@eng.monash.edu.au> Organization: Monash University MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE X-Accept-Language: en, en-us User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.0.0) Gecko/20020529 References: <000501c3adbb$6acc0130$4b47038d@tm.unikarlsruhe.de> Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Hi Tobias, Tobias K=FCfner wrote: > Dear Greg, >=20 >=20 >>In HMIPv6 this is OK, if we want to send the alt-coa BU >>from the on-link care-of-address of the MN. the RR has to >>be done over the MAP tunnel though. >=20 >=20 > I don't really understand the motivation for using=20 > the alternate CoA option in HMIPv6. Please, help me. >=20 > If the MN can't use its RCoA as a topologically=20 > correct source address, (1) it must send/receive CoTI/CoT=20 > over MAP tunnel and (2) the payload packets from/to the > CN must also be tunneled by/to the MAP. This issue is related to what is being discussed on the MIPSHOP list about HMIPv6 source address selection. You're right, that if reverse tunneling is available, that may be used (and is necessary for RR). > So what is the benefit from sending the BU *directly* > to the CN [HA] using the LCoA as source address? >=20 > I can't find any situation in the HMIPv6-draft in which > the MN "SHOULD" or "MUST" use the alternate CoA option. > Do such situations exist? > If so, would you give me examples, please? > > Sorry, if I'm missing something obvious. I don't think you are. Initially, before RR was developed, the plan was not to use reverse tunnels in any case (they have extra overhead). Then, the alt-coa option was required in networks deploying ingress filtering (not allowing P or I bits the RCoA as packet source address). Now the existence of RR makes this less sure, since there's always a reverse tunnel in existence. Of course, HA bindings don't require RR and may therefore be sent from the LCoA. This may be useful if a device wants to do a HA binding when it has not yet finished MAP binding (but expects to). Whether this is necessary or just useful is another issue, though. Greg _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Nov 19 06:34:25 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA13099 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 06:34:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMQb2-0003Gg-KR for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 06:34:09 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAJBY8Vf012562 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 06:34:08 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMQb2-0003GX-EP for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 06:34:08 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA13096 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 06:33:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMQay-0005Lf-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 06:34:04 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMQax-0005Lb-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 06:34:04 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMQav-0003Ee-Av; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 06:34:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMQaT-0003Dg-N1 for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 06:33:33 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA13081; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 06:33:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMQaP-0005Kq-00; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 06:33:29 -0500 Received: from motgate3.mot.com ([144.189.100.103]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMQaO-0005Km-00; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 06:33:28 -0500 Received: from az33exr01.mot.com (az33exr01.mot.com [10.64.251.231]) by motgate3.mot.com (Motorola/Motgate3) with ESMTP id hAJBXEkt007775; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 04:33:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from thorgal.crm.mot.com (zfr01srv02.crm.mot.com [10.161.201.8]) by az33exr01.mot.com (Motorola/az33exr01) with ESMTP id hAJBVlF7027247; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 05:31:49 -0600 Received: from motorola.com (test9.crm.mot.com [10.161.201.219]) by thorgal.crm.mot.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4A3D2EC95; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 12:32:54 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <3FBB54E6.8030909@motorola.com> Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 12:32:54 +0100 From: Alexandru Petrescu User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.3a) Gecko/20021212 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Soliman Hesham Cc: Henrik Levkowetz , mip4@ietf.org, mip6@ietf.org References: <9E3BA3946476AD4EB94672712B12A85F041FFC@ftmail.lab.flarion.com> <20031117174000.5be9a786.henrik@levkowetz.com> In-Reply-To: <20031117174000.5be9a786.henrik@levkowetz.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.72.0.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Mip6] Re: large numerous packets (was: tying flow movement to MIP) Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Henrik Levkowetz wrote: >> It's certainly _a_ solution. And definitely a simple one. But I >> would view this as being very expensive for MIPv6. Assuming 2 HoAs, >> in the worst case scenario the MN could end up sending two BUs to >> the HA and two to each CN that knows about both HoAs. I think this >> is too expensive, especially if MIP is being used to manage >> mobility proper. Also note when calling it "expensive" that this BU happens only once per "cell", it does not add up to the effective usable app-level communication. One BU or two BU's is almost the same. It does not grow exponentially. It grows only with the number of interfaces or of home addresses one has on a machine. Number of interfaces is clear: no more than 3-4 interfaces on a _mobile_ device which is implicitely small. Number of home addresses per devices is also clear: no more than the number of apps that mobile machine runs simultaneously, also small. >> For MIPv4 it's not as expensive, but sending two different RREQs >> upon movement can still be expensive from the edge of a cell, given >> the sizes of those messages. Again here note remarks from practice where sizes of upstream packets accepted my some widely deployed/adopted/used wireless envs is relatively large with respect to the size of either one RReq or one BU (which are relatively small). Then, if sizes of IP packets are indeed too large, then there is IP fragmentation or IP PMTU discovery as good reusable tools too. Alex GBU _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Nov 19 07:58:21 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA15012 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 07:58:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMRuF-0007Nc-Cj for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 07:58:03 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAJCw3lo028367 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 07:58:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMRuF-0007NS-3Q for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 07:58:03 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA14975 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 07:57:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMRuE-0006UT-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 07:58:02 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMRuD-0006UQ-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 07:58:01 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMRuD-0007Mc-Ik; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 07:58:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMRu8-0007Lj-HO for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 07:57:56 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA14962; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 07:57:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMRu7-0006U5-00; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 07:57:55 -0500 Received: from zeus.ruca.ua.ac.be ([143.129.201.210] ident=root) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMRu6-0006U0-00; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 07:57:54 -0500 Received: from hmacs.ruca.ua.ac.be (hmacs.ruca.ua.ac.be [143.129.75.10]) by zeus.ruca.ua.ac.be (8.9.3 (PHNE_22672)/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA17161; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 13:42:44 +0100 (MET) Received: from PCINF15 (pcinf15.ruca.ua.ac.be [143.129.75.67]) by hmacs.ruca.ua.ac.be (8.11.6/Switch-2.0.0) with ESMTP id hAJCgiK28147; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 13:42:44 +0100 (CET) From: "Nik Van den Wijngaert" To: , Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 13:42:28 +0100 Message-ID: <001c01c3ae9a$9ac00d20$434b818f@PCINF15> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the HelpDesk for more information X-MailScanner: Found to be clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Mip6] [CFP] ITC specialist seminar : Announcement and CFP Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Announcement and Call for Papers ITC Specialist Seminar on Performance Evaluation of Wireless and Mobile Systems August 31 - September 02, 2004 University of Antwerp Antwerp - Belgium http://www.itcss16.ua.ac.be ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This ITC Specialist Seminar on Performance Evaluation of Wireless and Mobile Systems is the 16th event in the series of ITC Specialist Seminars that started in 1977, aiming at a specific topic of current or future interest. The 16th ITC Specialist Seminar will take place between August 31 and September 02, 2004 in Antwerp, Belgium. The technical program committee is soliciting papers describing original, previously unpublished, completed research, not currently under review by another conference or journal, addressing state-of-the-art research and development in all areas of computer networking and data communications. Topics of interest include, but are not limited to, the following: - Mobility management for wireless internet - QoS protocols for wireless internet - Sensor network planning and performance aspects - Wireless LANs - Routing protocols for Ad Hoc networks - Performance issues in Ad Hoc networks - Medium access control techniques and their performance - Traffic characterization and measurements in mobile networks - Resource allocation in mobile and wireless networks PAPERS SUBMISSION Papers must be submitted electronically (according to the instructions in http://www.itcss16.ua.ac.be ) and their maximum size should be 20 double-spaced pages (using times 12pt as a reference). The cover page must contain an abstract of about 150 words, 3-5 keywords, name and affiliation of author(s), as well as the corresponding author's e-mail, telephone number, fax number and postal address. PAPERS PUBLICATION All submissions will be reviewed by the program committee. Accepted papers will appear in the conference proceedings. The copyright remains with the authors. IMPORTANT DATES Full papers due: February 15, 2004 Notification: April 30, 2004 Camera Ready due: June 30, 2004 CONFERENCE WEBSITE For more information check the conference website, at http://www.itcss16.ua.ac.be _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Nov 19 08:26:21 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA15777 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 08:26:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMSLL-0000yr-Fq for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 08:26:03 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAJDQ3nP003768 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 08:26:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMSLL-0000yh-BJ for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 08:26:03 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA15761 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 08:25:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMSLK-0006qo-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 08:26:02 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMSLJ-0006ql-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 08:26:01 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMSLJ-0000yA-Mw; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 08:26:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMSL4-0000xd-2t for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 08:25:46 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA15749 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 08:25:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMSL2-0006qR-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 08:25:45 -0500 Received: from clarinet.u-strasbg.fr ([130.79.90.157]) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMSL2-0006qN-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 08:25:44 -0500 Received: (qmail 25688 invoked for bounce); 19 Nov 2003 13:25:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO clarinet.u-strasbg.fr) (montavont@unknown) by unknown with RC4-MD5 encrypted SMTP; 19 Nov 2003 13:25:50 -0000 Message-ID: <3FBB6F08.3070702@clarinet.u-strasbg.fr> Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 14:24:24 +0100 From: Nicolas Montavont User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030727 Thunderbird/0.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Tobias_K=FCfner?= CC: mip6@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Mip6] Question on draft-montavont-mobileip-multihoming-pb-statement References: <000401c3aa98$4a710e60$4b47038d@tm.unikarlsruhe.de> In-Reply-To: <000401c3aa98$4a710e60$4b47038d@tm.unikarlsruhe.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ietf.org id IAA15750 Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Tobias, Tobias K=FCfner wrote: >Dear Nicolas, > >thank you very much for your explanation. >My comments are inline. > > =20 > >>First of all, the taxonomy does not give how the MN is currently=20 >>connected to the network (maybe it's needed). For some=20 >>scenarios, it is=20 >>implicit, but for most of them, it is not given. Do you think that it=20 >>would be interesting to consider how the MN is connected to=20 >>the network=20 >>(I mean which interface is connected at home and which is not) >> =20 >> > >IMO it would be helpful to point out the restrictions=20 >to the use of the CoA(s) in scenario 6 and 7 (1,*,n). >As your draft says in 4.3 "the CoAs can not be registered=20 >with the home agent serving to MN on the home link it is=20 >connected to". > >IMO this is especially important for scenario 6 and 7 (1,*,n). >If you consider a MN connected to its _one and only_ home link=20 >in scenario 6 and 7, the MN _must_ use RO with its CoA(s) >assigned to its interface(s) connected to visited links. > >Or am I missing something? > You're right and we will add some explanation in the next revision of=20 the draft. Thank you for pointing out the intersesting scenarios, because now we=20 will focus on some scenarios and we will investigate them deeper. >=20 > =20 > >>>Which interface uses the HoA? >>>Or is the HoA shared by two or more interfaces (L2 addresses)? >>> >>> =20 >>> >>I don't really get your question... Can you detail more ? >> =20 >> > >Not necessary. It is clear to me now. > > =20 > >>If you are talking about scenario 7, the MN can use his HoA=20 >>as a normal=20 >>IPv6 address to communicate with CNs (I mean no MIP6=20 >>processings) The other interface, which is connected to a=20 >>visited network, can use RO=20 >>to communicate with CN. >> =20 >> > >I agree. >=20 >But IMO it would be helpful to point out, that in this case >the MN has to send/receive HoTI/HoT _directly_ to the CN=20 >without tunneling it to/from the HA.=20 > Good point too. Thank you again for these remarks. Nicolas > >This has been the point I misunderstood. > >Tobias >_____________ >Tobias K=FCfner >Institute of Telematics, University of Karlsruhe, Germany > > =20 > _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Nov 19 11:18:22 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA24158 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 11:18:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMV1n-00045d-Ti for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 11:18:05 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAJGI3V7015715 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 11:18:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMV1n-00045O-PK for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 11:18:03 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA24057 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 11:17:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMV1m-00027c-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 11:18:03 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMV1m-00027Z-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 11:18:02 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMV1k-00044k-TM; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 11:18:00 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMV1B-00043m-OE for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 11:17:26 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA23965 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 11:17:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMV1A-00024l-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 11:17:24 -0500 Received: from [209.120.169.70] (helo=mail.incodetel.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMV1A-00022b-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 11:17:24 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [Mip6] I-D ACTION:draft-mkhalil-mipv6-nai-00.txt Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 08:16:47 -0800 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: Re: [Mip6] I-D ACTION:draft-mkhalil-mipv6-nai-00.txt Thread-Index: AcOuuIftXznKd5JgRHuGLaq+RDh/rQ== From: "Akhtar, Haseeb" To: Cc: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable TJ, Sorry for the delayed response. Please see my comments below (preceded = by HA>>). Regards, Haseeb Internet-Drafts@ietf.org wrote:=20 > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts = directories.=20 > Title : Mobile IP Network Access Identifier Extension for IPv6 > Author(s) : M. Khalil, et. al. > Filename : = draft-mkhalil-mipv6-nai-00.txt=20 > Pages : 0=20 > Date : 2003-10-17=20 > This document defines a way for the mobile node to identify itself,=20 > by including the NAI with the MIPv6 Binding Update messages.=20 I have some comments and questions on the draft, if you're ready for = them. Is there supposed to be any way to authenticate a user as owning a = particular NAI? Are you planning on integrating the use of AAAv6, PANA, or some = other method? HA>> Yes. The authentication can be done using AAAv6 or any other HA>> mechanism supported by MIPv6.=20 Upon receiving the Binding Update, the HA will first verify=20 the authenticity of the Binding Update. It will then attempt to allocate a unique IP address to the MN. This is a catch-22, right? How can the HA verify the authenticity of the = BU without having a pre-established security association with the MN at a = certain address? There is no way listed to establish some sort of authenticity = of the NAI, unless I am totally missing something.. HA>> You're right about the catch-22. However, we have sent out a draft HA>> last week to address this issue (should be showing up in the list HA>> any day now. The idea is to have the BU message authenticated = (ensure HA>> the message integrity) first and then have the user authenticated. Upon receiving a Binding Update, the HA MUST verify the=20 authenticity of the Binding Update message. The authentication process is out side the scope of this draft. I disagree. If and when the HA receives a valid Binding Update with the Home IP address field set to zero and the NAI option included, it will attempt to allocate a unique IP address and=20 proceed with registration procedure as stated in [MIPV6]. So this means you are turning off all security? HA>> We are in the process of updating this draft so that it reads = better HA>> as well as address your concerns. Stay tuned for the next version. I think I am not understanding the gist of the draft. Please explain how security works in this scheme.. thanks, TJ HA>> Thanks for your comments as well. _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Nov 19 12:09:19 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA27173 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 12:09:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMVp8-0008Lb-Nm for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 12:09:02 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAJH92xN032080 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 12:09:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMVp8-0008LL-Hz for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 12:09:02 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA27142 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 12:08:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMVp7-0003WU-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 12:09:01 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMVp6-0003WR-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 12:09:00 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMVp7-0008KQ-Ao; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 12:09:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMVoG-0008Gx-HE for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 12:08:08 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA27126; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 12:07:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMVoF-0003VI-00; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 12:08:07 -0500 Received: from ihemail2.lucent.com ([192.11.222.163] helo=ihemail2.firewall.lucent.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMVoE-0003Ur-00; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 12:08:06 -0500 Received: from nwsgpa.ih.lucent.com (h135-1-121-22.lucent.com [135.1.121.22]) by ihemail2.firewall.lucent.com (Switch-2.2.8/Switch-2.2.0) with ESMTP id hAJH6lE18792; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 11:06:48 -0600 (CST) Received: from mccap-1.lucent.com by nwsgpa.ih.lucent.com (8.11.7p1+Sun/EMS-1.5 sol2) id hAJH6kG18356; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 11:06:46 -0600 (CST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=MCCAP-1.lucent.com) by mccap-1.lucent.com with esmtp (Exim 4.04) id HOLZJ5-00012W-00; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 12:06:41 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <16315.41760.686515.201908@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 11:06:40 -0600 From: Pete McCann To: Henrik Levkowetz Cc: "James Kempf" , , Subject: Re: [Mip6] RE: [Mip4] tying flow movement to MIP RE: [Mipshop] Minutes of Multiple Lin k Flows BAR BOF In-Reply-To: <20031118010124.4d89dabe.henrik@levkowetz.com> References: <9E3BA3946476AD4EB94672712B12A85F041FFC@ftmail.lab.flarion.com> <16312.64202.769515.896944@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <047301c3ad5e$285fe490$956015ac@dclkempt40> <20031118010124.4d89dabe.henrik@levkowetz.com> X-Mailer: VM 7.14 under 21.5 (beta14) "cassava" XEmacs Lucid Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Henrik Levkowetz writes: > Hi James, > > Monday 17 November 2003, James wrote: > > Pete, > > > > > In MIP4, there may be less of an impact from multiple home addresses > > > due to the absence of route optimization. However, IPv4 addresses are > > > more precious than IPv6 addresses. That last fact seems to me to be > > > the only reason why we would think about putting filters into a > > > registration request. It seems much simpler for the application > > > (using SIP or whatever) to advertise a particular home address to the > > > CN. You could still handle mobility independently for each session, > > > using Mobile IP along with the extra level of indirection supplied by > > > the separate IP addresses. There is no need to build mobility into > > > the application protocol. > > > > > > > Agree with IPv4 addresses being scare as the main issue for doing flow > > handoff at the home agent in MIPv4, but not sure about whether the RREQ is > > the right place for filters. Seems like it is a generic middlebox problem > > and should be approached using the same tools as for other middleboxes. > > I'm not at all sure that the reasoning about IPv4 address scarcity > holds water. MIPv4 works with both HoAs and CoAs being private, behind > NATs (even if we don't like'em... :) Yes, but we may need to solve this problem for public IPv4 addresses, depending on the deployment scenarios. > > > There may be a few unsolved issues with HAs allocating multiple > > > addresses, but I think it could be handled easily with the use of > > > multiple NAIs. I wrote a draft called the "Mobile IP Session > > > Identifier Extension" some years back, but you could do the same thing > > > with some sort of NAI-mangling naming convention > > > > Why would multiple NAIs be necessary if all the CoA to HoA mappings were > > handled by one HA, as would be the case if the same service provider was > > providing service on all CoAs? I agree that they would be necessary if the > > the CoAs were provided by multiple service providers, but the flow handover > > issue is just the tip of the iceberg in that case, IMHO. > > I don't think we can assume neither that the same service provder is > providing service on all CoAs, nor that there is only one HA. If public > WLAN hotspots vs. cellular vs. corporate WLAN is a typical scenario, > I'd say it's actually quite unlikely. I wasn't thinking of multiple service providers, I was just trying to find a cheap and easy way to support multiple sessions even on a single HA. The problem with a single NAI is that it becomes impossible to distinguish a retransmission from a request for a new session (IP home address). So we need something like a session ID, or a convention for multiple sessions within the NAI namespace. Such a technique would also allow each flow to be homed on a different home agent, as you point out, which might be needed for additional flexibility. However, all the subsequent posts about HA redundancy, etc, have gotten way off topic and are missing my point entirely. -Pete _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Nov 19 12:14:21 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA27576 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 12:14:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMVtz-0000M3-SL for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 12:14:04 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAJHE3bx001351 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 12:14:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMVty-0000K0-Tv for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 12:14:02 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA27534 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 12:13:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMVtx-0003h5-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 12:14:01 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMVtx-0003h2-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 12:14:01 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMVtx-0000Hw-Fo; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 12:14:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMVtK-0000Gi-Ac for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 12:13:22 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA27495; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 12:13:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMVtI-0003fn-00; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 12:13:20 -0500 Received: from ihemail2.lucent.com ([192.11.222.163] helo=ihemail2.firewall.lucent.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMVtI-0003eA-00; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 12:13:20 -0500 Received: from nwsgpa.ih.lucent.com (h135-1-121-22.lucent.com [135.1.121.22]) by ihemail2.firewall.lucent.com (Switch-2.2.8/Switch-2.2.0) with ESMTP id hAJHCBE22300; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 11:12:12 -0600 (CST) Received: from mccap-1.lucent.com by nwsgpa.ih.lucent.com (8.11.7p1+Sun/EMS-1.5 sol2) id hAJHCAG01363; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 11:12:11 -0600 (CST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=MCCAP-1.lucent.com) by mccap-1.lucent.com with esmtp (Exim 4.04) id HOLZS6-0001P8-00; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 12:12:06 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <16315.42086.725515.38907@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 11:12:06 -0600 From: Pete McCann To: Soliman Hesham Cc: "'Henrik Levkowetz'" , mip4@ietf.org, mip6@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <9E3BA3946476AD4EB94672712B12A85F041FFF@ftmail.lab.flarion.com> References: <9E3BA3946476AD4EB94672712B12A85F041FFF@ftmail.lab.flarion.com> X-Mailer: VM 7.14 under 21.5 (beta14) "cassava" XEmacs Lucid Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Mip6] RE: [Mip4] tying flow movement to MIP RE: [Mipshop] Minutes of Multiple Lin k Flows BAR BOF Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Hesham, Soliman Hesham writes: > Hi Pete, > > > So maybe what we need is an efficient way to handle multi-homed hosts > > (hosts with multiple home addresses) in MIP6. This could be > > something > > like aggregation of BUs or other sorts of tricks. > > => That used to be in the draft for the HA BUs but was removed > because it was difficult to achieve from a security > point of view. I'm not sure that this is cleaner than > just adding the flow movement extensions. Also another > use of those extensions (that I didn't want to bring up > yet) is for optimising the handover smoothing for different > flows (buffer to eliminate packet loss Vs forward to eliminate > delays). Sure, but I think you could do that with multiple home addresses too. > > In MIP4, there may be less of an impact from multiple home addresses > > due to the absence of route optimization. However, IPv4 > > addresses are > > more precious than IPv6 addresses. That last fact seems to me to be > > the only reason why we would think about putting filters into a > > registration request. > > => In MIPv4 I agree. > > > It seems much simpler for the application > > (using SIP or whatever) to advertise a particular home address to the > > CN. You could still handle mobility independently for each session, > > using Mobile IP along with the extra level of indirection supplied by > > the separate IP addresses. There is no need to build mobility into > > the application protocol. > > => There is definitely no need to build mobility into the > application protocol, I didn't suggest that. Having SIP > advertise an address does not fix the problem when you > want to move that connection from one interface to another > as I explained in a previous email. The only way to do that > today is to terminate the connection and restart it. I > don't imagine that we'd want to do that. No, you wouldn't need to do that, assuming each application was using its own home address. Each application flow could be moved completely independently, based on application needs and interface availability. You just send a registration request binding the home address to the right CoA. > > There may be a few unsolved issues with HAs allocating multiple > > addresses, but I think it could be handled easily with the use of > > multiple NAIs. I wrote a draft called the "Mobile IP Session > > Identifier Extension" some years back, but you could do the > > same thing > > with some sort of NAI-mangling naming convention > > (H.Soliman1@flarion.com, H.Soliman2@flarion.com, etc...). > > => I remember that, it was presented in Adelaide I think. > I thought it was worth pursuing back then. Anyway, now we're > discussing solution space, I just wanted to highlight the problem. > > At the moment it's probably a bit premature to decide that > one solution is _the_ one (hence I'm being the devil's > advocate either way you go :) ). If this topic is important > to the WGs perhaps we should do a proper investigation. Agreed - I guess we need to understand where this requirement is coming from. Also, we need to understand whether commercial production mobiles will want to include the necessary APIs for people to build these kinds of adaptive applications, or whether this is all just an academic exercise. -Pete > Hesham _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Nov 19 13:07:21 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA00272 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 13:07:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMWjH-0004Ot-Ip for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 13:07:05 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAJI737K016901 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 13:07:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMWjG-0004OO-V1 for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 13:07:03 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA00256 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 13:06:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMWjF-0005Gz-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 13:07:01 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMWjE-0005Gw-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 13:07:00 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMWjF-0004NH-Ef; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 13:07:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMWig-0004MF-No for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 13:06:27 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA00241 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 13:06:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMWie-0005GM-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 13:06:24 -0500 Received: from shaku.sfc.wide.ad.jp ([203.178.143.49]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMWid-0005GI-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 13:06:24 -0500 Received: from monster.sfc.wide.ad.jp.sfc.wide.ad.jp (p29b5d8.tkyoac00.ap.so-net.ne.jp [218.41.181.216]) (authenticated bits=0) by shaku.sfc.wide.ad.jp (8.12.10/8.12.0) with ESMTP id hAJI674u015497; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 03:06:08 +0900 Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 18:04:46 +0900 Message-ID: From: Ryuji Wakikawa To: greg.daley@eng.monash.edu.au Cc: montavont@clarinet.u-strasbg.fr, jz105@york.ac.uk, mip6@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Mip6] A Question on Mobile IPv6 -- Alternate Care-of Address option In-Reply-To: <3FB84DF0.1030105@eng.monash.edu.au> References: <3171ee319d60.319d603171ee@mail1.monash.edu.au> <3FB4064D.4070208@clarinet.u-strasbg.fr> <3FB84DF0.1030105@eng.monash.edu.au> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.8.1 (Something) SEMI/1.14.3 (Ushinoya) FLIM/1.14.3 (=?ISO-8859-4?Q?Unebigory=F2mae?=) APEL/10.3 Emacs/20.7 (i386--freebsd) MULE/4.1 (AOI) Organization: Keio University MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.3 - "Ushinoya") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Hi Greg At Mon, 17 Nov 2003 15:26:24 +1100, Greg Daley wrote: > > > > Nicolas Montavont wrote: > [part cut] > >> > >> > >> HMIPv6 uses this option. Also, If a host already has a > >> currently performed return routability procedure for a CoA > >> (for example, it has decided to change back to a previously > >> visited network) it may desire to perform the BU before > >> it leaves in order to reduce handover latency. > >> > > It is an interesting scenario, but how to determine the timing on when > > you really go back to the old network ? Further, how can be sure that > > your address is still valid in your old location ? > > I'd guess that if you used a near-randomly generated address such > as a CGA or a 3041 address, the address is unlikely to be claimed > in your absence. > > I'd guess that you'd know if you were going back to the old network > if you had some external knowledge about the quality of the signal, > or you were returning to the same geographic location where you > were connected before (and received good service then). > > > Another scenario can be a scenario of multihoming: consider that you > > have two interfaces and wants to use one for signalization and the other > > one for the data packets. > > Indeed. This is actually more likely to be of use, but in this > case, return routability needs to be done from the new CoA to prove > the identity of the host's interface. > > If there didn't need to be any signalling from the new access > interface, this could be a great advantage, if the new > link is constrained or costly. > > With a stronger security association it is plausible that > you could trust someone anyway even without a prior COT/I exchange but > even HMIPv6 requires an online-care-of-test in this case. I wrote some scenarios in draft-wakikawa-mobileip-multiplecoa-02.txt(section5.4). With this proposal, MN can register multiple CoAs for single Hoa. When MN sends a BU with an alternate CoA and already registers the source address of the BU as a binding, it does not need to perform CoTI/CoT for the alternate CoA. CN can trust the BU source address because CN has care-of keygen token for the CoA (source address). regards, ryuji _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Nov 19 18:58:19 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA24160 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 18:58:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMcCx-0007Ld-UN for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 18:58:04 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAJNw3lh028239 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 18:58:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMcCx-0007LO-P2 for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 18:58:03 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA24131 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 18:57:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMcCu-0006f1-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 18:58:00 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMcCu-0006ey-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 18:58:00 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMcCv-0007KW-5W; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 18:58:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMcCH-0007JL-M9 for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 18:57:21 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA24104 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 18:57:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMcCE-0006eD-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 18:57:18 -0500 Received: from [209.120.169.70] (helo=mail.incodetel.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMcCD-0006cD-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 18:57:17 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 15:56:47 -0800 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: Re: [Mip6] I-D ACTION:draft-mkhalil-mipv6-nai-00.txt Thread-Index: AcOuuIftXznKd5JgRHuGLaq+RDh/rQAP/GFg From: "Akhtar, Haseeb" To: Cc: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [Mip6] I-D ACTION:draft-mkhalil-mipv6-alloc-00.txt Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello all, For some reasons, the draft announcement did not make it to the list. Regards, Haseeb ------------------------------------------------------------------ Title: Secure and Dynamic Allocation of Home Address for MIPv6 Abstract: Static configuration of the MN's (Mobile Node) home address=20 is a very cumbersome task and a provisioning nightmare for=20 the Service Providers. With millions of subscribers, a=20 typical Service Provider stands to incur considerable=20 expenses in order to manually configure all of its MN's=20 home address.=20 The ability to dynamically and securely allocate MN's=20 home address, therefore, can immensely aid in providing=20 a cost-effective and efficient device management=20 alternative to the Service Providers.=20 This draft provides a simple method for dynamically=20 allocating MN's home address in a secure manner. http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-mkhalil-mipv6-alloc-00.txt _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Nov 20 00:59:19 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA05504 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 00:59:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMhqK-0006zD-7e for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 00:59:04 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAK5x4MZ026851 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 00:59:04 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMhqK-0006z0-37 for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 00:59:04 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA05484 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 00:58:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMhqI-00049P-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 00:59:02 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMhqH-00049M-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 00:59:01 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMhqH-0006xq-UK; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 00:59:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMhpW-0006wv-Qh for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 00:58:14 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA05466; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 00:57:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMhpU-00048l-00; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 00:58:12 -0500 Received: from mail.flarion.com ([63.103.94.23] helo=ftmail.lab.flarion.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMhpU-00047j-00; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 00:58:12 -0500 Received: by ftmail.lab.flarion.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 00:57:36 -0500 Message-ID: <9E3BA3946476AD4EB94672712B12A85F042011@ftmail.lab.flarion.com> From: Soliman Hesham To: "'Pete McCann'" Cc: "'Henrik Levkowetz'" , mip4@ietf.org, mip6@ietf.org Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 00:57:32 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: [Mip6] RE: [Mip4] tying flow movement to MIP RE: [Mipshop] Minutes of Multiple Lin k Flows BAR BOF Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , > > => That used to be in the draft for the HA BUs but was removed > > because it was difficult to achieve from a security > > point of view. I'm not sure that this is cleaner than > > just adding the flow movement extensions. Also another > > use of those extensions (that I didn't want to bring up > > yet) is for optimising the handover smoothing for different > > flows (buffer to eliminate packet loss Vs forward to eliminate > > delays). > > Sure, but I think you could do that with multiple home addresses too. => See below. > > > => There is definitely no need to build mobility into the > > application protocol, I didn't suggest that. Having SIP > > advertise an address does not fix the problem when you > > want to move that connection from one interface to another > > as I explained in a previous email. The only way to do that > > today is to terminate the connection and restart it. I > > don't imagine that we'd want to do that. > > No, you wouldn't need to do that, assuming each application was using > its own home address. Each application flow could be moved > completely > independently, based on application needs and interface availability. > You just send a registration request binding the home address to the > right CoA. => I know you can do it with multiple HoAs but I think it's too "expensive" in terms of signalling over the air, especially during a handover. I think one BU/RREQ is about as much as you can send during handover, that is if MIP is being used to manage mobility. > Also, we need to understand whether commercial > production mobiles will want to include the necessary APIs for people > to build these kinds of adaptive applications, => I wouldn't hold my breath about getting companies to tell us about these sorts of plans, but if it works then great... Hesham _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Nov 20 09:13:22 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA05068 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 09:13:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMpYO-0004Dn-Lw for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 09:13:04 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAKED40Q016223 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 09:13:04 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMpYO-0004Da-HI for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 09:13:04 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA05042 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 09:12:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMpYM-0003UA-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 09:13:02 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMpYL-0003U3-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 09:13:01 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMpYL-0004Bi-AU; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 09:13:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMpXX-000473-Sn for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 09:12:11 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA04980; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 09:11:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMpXU-0003TC-00; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 09:12:08 -0500 Received: from host81-136-46-224.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([81.136.46.224] helo=onmo756.com) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMpXT-0003T1-00; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 09:12:07 -0500 From: "malaki" Reply-To: malikakamu@yahoo.co.uk CC: owner-ietf-announce@ietf.org, seamoby@ietf.org, policy@ietf.org, mip6@ietf.org, sip@ietf.org, dhcwg-request@ietf.org, bofchairs@ietf.org Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 14:12:26 +0000 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [Mip6] malaki Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Sir=2C I am malaki Kumalo=2C son of the late Jonas Kumalo a prominent memeber of Unita - the National Union for the Total Independence of Angola - in the late 1960s as a rival movement to the MPLA which later became the government=2E My father was one of the front liners Unita for more than 30 years=2Cbut died in fighting with government troops on Friday 22nd February 2002=2E I escaped to Spain and latter to London=2C The British Government after the death of my father knowing fully well that my father told me about the existence of US$15=2C000=2C 000=28Fifteen Million United States Dollars=29 he deposited in a Security Trust Company in London=2E=2C -as precious metals =28for security reasons =29=2E This money was acquired through the exportation and sale of Diamond and Timber when my father was controlling some tribes as the he ad of states=2E Presently=2C I am living a political exile life here in London=2C avoiding the witch-hunting of the Angolan government troops=2E I have also certified the existence of the consignment at the trust company=2C but the labour law act of The UK does not allow me to operate a bank account in my status as a political asylum seeker=2E For the above reason=2CI was adviced by a top director at the Security Company to seek your assistance to meet me here in London to claim the funds in your name for onward transfer to your account for investment=2E I expect you to be trustworthy and kind enough to respond to this distress call to save My Mother and me from a hopeless future=2E And if you agree=2C I hereby agree to compensate your sincere and candid effort in this regard with 20% of the total amount of $15 million US Dollars=2E When the money =28$15 million=29 is moved into your discrete account=2E You will be allowed to draw 20% in your favor=2C while the remai1ning 80% will be invested meaningfully for our future if possible in your area of business and different sectors of the economy in your country with a reasonable return on investment=2E Again=2Cthe Security Trust Company has indicated that I owe an outstanding bill to pay at the firm before they could effect the release of the consignment=2C as the initial security storage-deposit charges paid by my late father had expired and I do not have enough money to clear the debt which the luggage attracted monthly=2E Whatever your decision is=2C please reach me immediately through my email and furnish me with details of your telephone and fax numbers and keep this letter tight secret for the interest of my family=2E Alternatively=2C you could call me on =3A44-7709524468=2E Yours sincerely=2C malaki kumalo=2E _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Nov 20 09:56:19 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA07006 for ; 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------_=_NextPart_001_01C3AF76.13E2CEBE-- _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Nov 20 11:12:20 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA11141 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:12:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMrPU-00050e-JX for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:12:02 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAKGC0Am019250 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:12:00 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMrPU-00050P-Dp for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:12:00 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA11128 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:11:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMrPT-0005IM-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:11:59 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMrPT-0005IJ-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:11:59 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMrPV-0004zi-2K; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:12:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMrP9-0004u8-2X for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:11:39 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA11104 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:11:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMrP6-0005Hv-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:11:36 -0500 Received: from email10.etsi.org ([212.234.161.112] helo=email10.etsihq.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMrP5-0005HS-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:11:36 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 17:11:03 +0100 Message-ID: <4091553999CBE4409CC2B562152B5A3302060CA4@email10.etsihq.org> Thread-Topic: mip6.plugtests.org outage Thread-Index: AcOvgOWMNBUR/nXLQpOSbHfqF/2lmw== From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Patrick_Ren=E9_Guillemin?= To: Cc: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [Mip6] mip6.plugtests.org outage Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear mip6 testers, http://mip6.plugtests.org/ is temporarily out of order for maintenance = reason. It should be back after 06h00 am GMT +1 Sorry for the inconvenience Best Regards Patrick GUILLEMIN=20 Plugtests Technical Coordinator=20 =20 tel +33(0)4 92 94 43 31=20 fax +33(0)4 92 38 52 31=20 _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Nov 20 11:15:23 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA11243 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:15:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMrST-0005Dx-Eo for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:15:05 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAKGF5SB020075 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:15:05 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMrST-0005DW-8k for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:15:05 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA11234 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:14:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMrSS-0005Ko-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:15:04 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMrSS-0005Kl-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:15:04 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMrSS-0005AP-5Q; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:15:04 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMrS7-000593-95 for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:14:43 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA11220; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:14:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMrS6-0005KO-00; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:14:42 -0500 Received: from [213.80.52.78] (helo=mailgw.local.ipunplugged.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMrS5-0005Jm-00; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:14:41 -0500 Received: from zinfandel.local.ipunplugged.com (chardonnay.local.ipunplugged.com [192.168.4.44]) by mailgw.local.ipunplugged.com (8.12.8/8.12.3) with SMTP id hAKGE5EY032539; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 17:14:05 +0100 Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 17:14:04 +0100 From: Henrik Levkowetz To: Pete McCann Cc: , Subject: Re: [Mip6] RE: [Mip4] tying flow movement to MIP RE: [Mipshop] Minutes of Multiple Lin k Flows BAR BOF Message-Id: <20031120171404.42b90179.henrik@levkowetz.com> In-Reply-To: <16315.41760.686515.201908@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <9E3BA3946476AD4EB94672712B12A85F041FFC@ftmail.lab.flarion.com> <16312.64202.769515.896944@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <047301c3ad5e$285fe490$956015ac@dclkempt40> <20031118010124.4d89dabe.henrik@levkowetz.com> <16315.41760.686515.201908@gargle.gargle.HOWL> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.5claws28 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg="pgp-sha1"; boundary="Signature=_Thu__20_Nov_2003_17_14_04_+0100_Rf9e3aLmZ6B0nWkH" X-RAVMilter-Version: 8.4.4(snapshot 20030410) (mailgw.local.ipunplugged.com) Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , --Signature=_Thu__20_Nov_2003_17_14_04_+0100_Rf9e3aLmZ6B0nWkH Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Wednesday, 19 Nov 2003, Pete wrote: [...] > > > > I'm not at all sure that the reasoning about IPv4 address scarcity > > holds water. MIPv4 works with both HoAs and CoAs being private, behind > > NATs (even if we don't like'em... :) > > Yes, but we may need to solve this problem for public IPv4 addresses, > depending on the deployment scenarios. True. [...] > > > > I don't think we can assume neither that the same service provder is > > providing service on all CoAs, nor that there is only one HA. If public > > WLAN hotspots vs. cellular vs. corporate WLAN is a typical scenario, > > I'd say it's actually quite unlikely. > > I wasn't thinking of multiple service providers, I was just trying to > find a cheap and easy way to support multiple sessions even on a > single HA. The problem with a single NAI is that it becomes > impossible to distinguish a retransmission from a request for a new > session (IP home address). So we need something like a session ID, or > a convention for multiple sessions within the NAI namespace. Agreed. > Such a technique would also allow each flow to be homed on a different > home agent, as you point out, which might be needed for additional > flexibility. However, all the subsequent posts about HA redundancy, > etc, have gotten way off topic and are missing my point entirely. Yup. Henrik --Signature=_Thu__20_Nov_2003_17_14_04_+0100_Rf9e3aLmZ6B0nWkH Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/vOhMeVhrtTJkXCMRAjs8AKDr4Gz671Zy4MYgcju2Jux1UzXnaQCcCu/G PGwvY9awrT9KGctPPd8xcSM= =2cUO -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Signature=_Thu__20_Nov_2003_17_14_04_+0100_Rf9e3aLmZ6B0nWkH-- _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Nov 20 14:26:21 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA19631 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 14:26:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMuRI-0002kn-Ew for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 14:26:04 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAKJQ4rc010579 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 14:26:04 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMuRI-0002jj-82 for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 14:26:04 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA19612 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 14:25:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMuRF-0000k5-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 14:26:01 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMuRF-0000k0-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 14:26:01 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMuRG-0002iX-9L; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 14:26:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AMuR6-0002i1-3f for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 14:25:54 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA19602; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 14:25:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMuR3-0000jn-00; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 14:25:49 -0500 Received: from nwkea-mail-1.sun.com ([192.18.42.13]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AMuR2-0000jU-00; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 14:25:49 -0500 Received: from jurassic.eng.sun.com ([129.146.85.105]) by nwkea-mail-1.sun.com (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id hAKJPIUP026319; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:25:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from shubho (shubho.Eng.Sun.COM [129.146.85.207]) by jurassic.eng.sun.com (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with SMTP id hAKJPFcx672857; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:25:15 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <200311201925.hAKJPFcx672857@jurassic.eng.sun.com> Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:26:42 -0800 (PST) From: Samita Chakrabarti Reply-To: Samita Chakrabarti To: mip6@ietf.org, mipshop@ietf.org Cc: H.Miyata@jp.yokogawa.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-MD5: /QiYhHfAA+EOXArSpx929Q== X-Mailer: dtmail 1.3.0 @(#)CDE Version 1.6_31 SunOS 5.10 sun4u sparc Subject: [Mip6] Connectathon 2004 - MIPv6 Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Hello: As it was announced at the 58th IETF that Connectathon 2004 will take place in San Jose, California in February, 2004. For early discount deadline and registration information, please check out : http://www.connectathon.org Current requests for MIPv6 testing: - Basic Mobile IPv6 drafts - Basic Nemo support Also, please welcome Mr. Hiroshi Miyata (H.Miyata@jp.yokogawa.com) from TAHI as the new MIPv6 technology co-ordinator at Connectathon. I am unable to spend time in Connectathon MIPv6 technology co-ordination, thus Mr. Miyata is taking over this responsibility. Mr. Miyata will work with UNH to co-ordinate this event. You will be hearing from him from now on. Thanks for your support! -Samita Samita Chakrabarti Sun Microsystems, Inc. samita.chakrabarti@sun.com _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Nov 21 05:57:23 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA09546 for ; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 05:57:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AN8yI-00078s-K1 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 05:57:06 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hALAv6Bo027448 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 05:57:06 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AN8yI-00078d-E5 for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 05:57:06 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA09543 for ; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 05:56:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AN8yE-0000Pa-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 05:57:02 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AN8yE-0000PX-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 05:57:02 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AN8yE-000785-2R; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 05:57:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AN8xN-00077C-96 for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 05:56:09 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA09440; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 05:54:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AN8wO-0000Mb-00; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 05:55:08 -0500 Received: from manatick.foretec.com ([4.17.168.5] helo=manatick) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AN8wN-0000MS-00; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 05:55:07 -0500 Received: from adsl-66-143-141-70.dsl.stlsmo.swbell.net ([66.143.141.70]) by manatick with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1AN8vU-000120-GP; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 05:54:13 -0500 Received: from [180.6.58.42] by adsl-66-143-141-70.dsl.stlsmo.swbell.net with ESMTP id DD42F766AE9 for ; Sat, 22 Nov 2003 03:51:51 +0200 Message-ID: From: "Mitch Valentin" Reply-To: "Mitch Valentin" To: , , Date: Sat, 22 Nov 03 03:51:51 GMT X-Mailer: The Bat! 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Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , This is a multi-part message in MIME format --2a80fe5b-dcec-4fef-b977-11137e65d1cc Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable DDEAR SIR. PLEASE I AM A BOY OF 25 YEARS AND I AM LOOKING FOR INVESTMENT OPPORTUNITY. I INTENDED TO INVEST THE SUM OF TWENTY MILLION UNITED STATES DOLLARS = INHERITED BY MY LATE FATHER.I AM FROM ZIMBABWE.BUT I AM LIVING IN THE = NETHERLANDS (EUROPE) AT THE MOMENT FOR MORE INFORMATION REACH ME ON MY NUMBER = 0031647858017 OR THROUGH THE EMAIL rharare@excite.com BEST REGARDS Rober Harare --2a80fe5b-dcec-4fef-b977-11137e65d1cc-- _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Sun Nov 23 16:50:22 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA01094 for ; Sun, 23 Nov 2003 16:50:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AO27J-0004jV-H8 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 23 Nov 2003 16:50:05 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hANLo5CL018189 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 23 Nov 2003 16:50:05 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AO27J-0004jI-Dc for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 23 Nov 2003 16:50:05 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA01064 for ; Sun, 23 Nov 2003 16:49:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AO27H-0007kJ-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 23 Nov 2003 16:50:03 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AO27H-0007kF-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 23 Nov 2003 16:50:03 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AO27G-0004iR-HN; Sun, 23 Nov 2003 16:50:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AO26m-0004dB-IQ for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 23 Nov 2003 16:49:32 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA01029 for ; Sun, 23 Nov 2003 16:49:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AO26k-0007j6-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Sun, 23 Nov 2003 16:49:30 -0500 Received: from numenor.qualcomm.com ([129.46.51.58]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AO26j-0007j1-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Sun, 23 Nov 2003 16:49:30 -0500 Received: from magus.qualcomm.com (magus.qualcomm.com [129.46.61.148]) by numenor.qualcomm.com (8.12.10/8.12.5/1.0) with ESMTP id hANLnPVY012321 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 23 Nov 2003 13:49:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from qualcomm.com (vpn-10-50-0-24.qualcomm.com [10.50.0.24]) by magus.qualcomm.com (8.12.10/8.12.5/1.0) with ESMTP id hANLnNFA028699 for ; Sun, 23 Nov 2003 13:49:23 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3FC12B4D.2070109@qualcomm.com> Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2003 13:49:01 -0800 From: Ramin Rezaiifar User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031007 X-Accept-Language: rs1_3d0a7e7f487, rs2_14b9d89f5f1, rs3_7681077950 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: mip6@ietf.org Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Mip6] processing of unsolicited advertisements Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
==========Excerpt from draft-ietf-mobileip-ipv6-24.txt==============
When a mobile node receives a Mobile Prefix Advertisement, it MUST
validate it according to the following test:
[...]
  • If the ICMP Identifier value matches the ICMP Identifier value of the most recently sent Mobile Prefix Solicitation and no other advertisement has yet been received for this value, then the advertisement is considered to be solicited and will be processed further. Otherwise, the advertisement is unsolicited, and MUST be silently discarded. In this case the mobile node SHOULD send a Mobile Prefix Solicitation.
=============================================================
  1. Does the above statement imply that the MN is to process unsolicited advertisements if it does not have an outstanding solicit?  It is somewhat confusing.
  2. The above bullet implies that if the mobile node has an outstanding solicit and then it receives a "non-matcing" advertisement, then the mobile node is to send another solicit message.  Why is this required?  What goes wrong if the MN accepts the unsolicited advertisement as a response to its solicitation and not send another solicitation?
  3. Since the statement does not require the ICMP identifier for the new solicit (the is sent as a result of receiving the unsolicited advertisement) to be the same as the outstanding one, this seem to cause the mobile node to get into an infinite loop of sending solicits.  The following diagram shows such a scenario:

               MN                                   HA   
                ---Solicit w/ ICMP identifier 1------> .......+
                <----unsolicited Advertise------------        |
         +......---Solicit w/ ICMP identifier 2------>        |
         |      <--Advertise w/ ICMP identifier 1----- .......+     
         |      ---Solicit w/ ICMP identifier 3------> 
         +......<--Advertise w/ ICMP identifier 2------
                                ...

-Ramin
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I am Barrister James Mthembu, the personal assistant to Charles Taylor the formal President of Liberia He has recently stepped down from power and is presently in assylum in Nigeria Well dear friend we need your assistance in transferring some of the money derived from gold excesses into your account because the government is making plans to seize all his asets I have been mandated to deal with anyone who offer assistance to have this funds transferred to his account oversea View these websites. http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/africa/08/11/taylor.warcrimes/index.html http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/africa/08/11/liberia.1300/index.html The amount is USD$50 Million in a Security firm abroad all that is needed is for me to instruct the company to transfer the funds to your account I will remunerate you with 25% of the total funds transferred to your vital bank account as compensation for your assistance Five percent 285%29 would be set aside to take care of all expenses we may incure during the transaction To indicate your interest kindly provide me your direct phone and fax numbers and all relevant information for me to be contacted you and to let you know the roles you will play in making this transaction successful all the legal information concerning this Money will be sent to you as soon as we agree together we all have been confined only to Calabar and all our calls are monitored So I will use all available contact to get you all the needed information Only few days ago the international body insisted that all our guards be disarmed and security measures tightened If this proposal satisfies you please contact me by this your full names telephone and fax numbers to enable an immediate contact be as I have adviced above Thanks for your cooperation Best Regard Barr James Mthembu _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 25 14:02:03 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA02318 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 14:02:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOiRX-0008CZ-3g for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 14:01:47 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAPJ1lVu031526 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 14:01:47 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOiRW-0008CP-UZ for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 14:01:46 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA02259 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 14:01:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOiRU-00031e-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 14:01:44 -0500 Received: from manatick.foretec.com ([4.17.168.5] helo=manatick) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOiMz-0002tP-02 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 13:57:05 -0500 Received: from [132.151.6.22] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by manatick with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1AOiFC-0004uf-TG for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 13:49:02 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOiFB-0007kN-Uv; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 13:49:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOiF3-0007jr-SI for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 13:48:53 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA01619 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 13:48:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOiF1-0002nN-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 13:48:51 -0500 Received: from darkstar.iprg.nokia.com ([205.226.5.69]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOiF0-0002mE-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 13:48:50 -0500 Received: (from root@localhost) by darkstar.iprg.nokia.com (8.11.0/8.11.0-DARKSTAR) id hAPImG125645; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 10:48:16 -0800 X-mProtect: <200311251848> Nokia Silicon Valley Messaging Protection Received: from UNKNOWN (205.226.30.3, claiming to be "iprg.nokia.com") by darkstar.iprg.nokia.com smtpd0pdQnW; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 10:48:14 PST Message-ID: <3FC3A511.9010202@iprg.nokia.com> Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 10:53:05 -0800 From: Vijay Devarapalli User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ramin Rezaiifar CC: mip6@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Mip6] processing of unsolicited advertisements References: <3FC12B4D.2070109@qualcomm.com> In-Reply-To: <3FC12B4D.2070109@qualcomm.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ramin Rezaiifar wrote: > ==========Excerpt from draft-ietf-mobileip-ipv6-24.txt============== > When a mobile node receives a Mobile Prefix Advertisement, it MUST > validate it according to the following test: > [...] > > * If the ICMP Identifier value matches the ICMP Identifier value of the most > recently sent Mobile Prefix Solicitation and no other advertisement has > yet been received for this value, then the advertisement is considered to > be solicited and will be processed further. Otherwise, the advertisement > is unsolicited, and MUST be silently discarded. In this case the mobile > node SHOULD send a Mobile Prefix Solicitation. > > ============================================================= > > 1. Does the above statement imply that the MN is to process unsolicited > advertisements if it does not have an outstanding solicit? It is somewhat > confusing. nope. the draft says never process an unsolicited Mobile Prefix Advertisement. only process solicited advertisements. > 2. The above bullet implies that if the mobile node has an outstanding > solicit and then it receives a "non-matcing" advertisement, then the > mobile node is to send another solicit message. Why is this required? > What goes wrong if the MN accepts the unsolicited advertisement as a > response to its solicitation and not send another solicitation? > 3. Since the statement does not require the ICMP identifier for the new > solicit (the is sent as a result of receiving the unsolicited > advertisement) to be the same as the outstanding one, this seem to cause > the mobile node to get into an infinite loop of sending solicits. The > following diagram shows such a scenario: > > > MN HA > ---Solicit w/ ICMP identifier 1------> .......+ > <----unsolicited Advertise------------ | > +......---Solicit w/ ICMP identifier 2------> | > | <--Advertise w/ ICMP identifier 1----- .......+ > | ---Solicit w/ ICMP identifier 3------> > +......<--Advertise w/ ICMP identifier 2------ > ... this wont happen because the MN does exponential backoff while sending Mobile Prefix Solicitations. Vijay _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 25 14:25:22 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA03465 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 14:25:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOio4-0001Rv-Lp for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 14:25:06 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAPJP4lJ005571 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 14:25:04 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOio4-0001Rl-FC for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 14:25:04 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA03448 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 14:24:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOio1-0003Up-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 14:25:01 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOio1-0003Um-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 14:25:01 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOio2-0001Qv-QS; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 14:25:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOinB-0001PY-Mp for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 14:24:09 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA03382 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 14:23:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOin8-0003U2-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 14:24:07 -0500 Received: from ithilien.qualcomm.com ([129.46.51.59]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOin8-0003Tz-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 14:24:06 -0500 Received: from magus.qualcomm.com (magus.qualcomm.com [129.46.61.148]) by ithilien.qualcomm.com (8.12.10/8.12.5/1.0) with ESMTP id hAPJO34t026902; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 11:24:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from qualcomm.com (vpn-10-50-16-51.qualcomm.com [10.50.16.51]) by magus.qualcomm.com (8.12.10/8.12.5/1.0) with ESMTP id hAPJNvFA019873; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 11:23:58 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3FC3AC2F.20206@qualcomm.com> Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 11:23:27 -0800 From: Ramin Rezaiifar User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031007 X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Vijay Devarapalli CC: Ramin Rezaiifar , mip6@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Mip6] processing of unsolicited advertisements References: <3FC12B4D.2070109@qualcomm.com> <3FC3A511.9010202@iprg.nokia.com> In-Reply-To: <3FC3A511.9010202@iprg.nokia.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks for the response. Please see my comment below. Vijay Devarapalli wrote: > Ramin Rezaiifar wrote: > >> >> [snip] > > > nope. the draft says never process an unsolicited Mobile Prefix > Advertisement. only process solicited advertisements. Then why would the HA ever send unsolicited Mobile Prefix Ads (as specified in section 10.6.2 of the draft) if the MN is not to process them? ==========from draft-ietf-mobileip-ipv6-24.txt=================== 10.6.2 Scheduling Prefix Deliveries A home agent serving a mobile node will schedule the delivery of new prefix information to that mobile node when any of the following conditions occur: MUST: o The state of the flags changes for the prefix of the mobile node's registered home address. o The valid or preferred lifetime is reconfigured or changes for any reason other than advancing real time. o The mobile node requests the information with ============================================================ thanks, -Ramin _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 25 14:35:19 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA04179 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 14:35:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOixj-00025y-PE for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 14:35:03 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAPJZ3pK008051 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 14:35:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOixj-00025m-Kl for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 14:35:03 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA04116 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 14:34:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOixg-0003lQ-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 14:35:01 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOixg-0003lN-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 14:35:00 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOixh-000254-J9; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 14:35:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOiwy-00023q-MB for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 14:34:16 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA04095 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 14:34:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOiwv-0003km-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 14:34:14 -0500 Received: from darkstar.iprg.nokia.com ([205.226.5.69]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOiwv-0003kI-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 14:34:13 -0500 Received: (from root@localhost) by darkstar.iprg.nokia.com (8.11.0/8.11.0-DARKSTAR) id hAPJXet20193; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 11:33:40 -0800 X-mProtect: <200311251933> Nokia Silicon Valley Messaging Protection Received: from UNKNOWN (205.226.30.3, claiming to be "iprg.nokia.com") by darkstar.iprg.nokia.com smtpd3wx2pB; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 11:33:39 PST Message-ID: <3FC3AFB5.5020300@iprg.nokia.com> Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 11:38:29 -0800 From: Vijay Devarapalli User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ramin Rezaiifar CC: mip6@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Mip6] processing of unsolicited advertisements References: <3FC12B4D.2070109@qualcomm.com> <3FC3A511.9010202@iprg.nokia.com> <3FC3AC2F.20206@qualcomm.com> In-Reply-To: <3FC3AC2F.20206@qualcomm.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ramin Rezaiifar wrote: > Thanks for the response. Please see my comment below. > > Vijay Devarapalli wrote: > >> Ramin Rezaiifar wrote: >> >>> >>> [snip] >> >> >> >> nope. the draft says never process an unsolicited Mobile Prefix >> Advertisement. only process solicited advertisements. > > > Then why would the HA ever send unsolicited Mobile Prefix Ads (as > specified in section 10.6.2 of the draft) if the MN is not to process them? to inform the mobile node that something has changed with respect to the prefixes being advertised on the home link. the Home Agent stops sending unsolicited prefix advertisements once it gets a solicitation from the mobile node. I dont remember why it was decided that the Mobile Node should not process unsolicited advertisements. I need to sift through the issues list. the list of issues are at http://users.piuha.net/jarkko/publications/mipv6/MIPv6-Issues.html Vijay > > ==========from draft-ietf-mobileip-ipv6-24.txt=================== > 10.6.2 Scheduling Prefix Deliveries > A home agent serving a mobile node will schedule the delivery of new > prefix information to that mobile node when any of the following > conditions occur: > MUST: > o The state of the flags changes for the prefix of the mobile node's > registered home address. > o The valid or preferred lifetime is reconfigured or changes for any > reason other than advancing real time. > o The mobile node requests the information with > ============================================================ > > thanks, > > -Ramin > > > _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 25 15:34:26 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA08354 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 15:34:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOjsv-0007Si-7L for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 15:34:09 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAPKY9mZ028683 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 15:34:09 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOjsv-0007SY-1y for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 15:34:09 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA08324 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 15:33:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOjss-0005F4-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 15:34:06 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOjsr-0005F1-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 15:34:05 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOjsn-0007Rm-KS; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 15:34:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOjsh-0007Qv-Fu for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 15:33:55 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA08311 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 15:33:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOjsd-0005EX-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 15:33:51 -0500 Received: from numenor.qualcomm.com ([129.46.51.58]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOjsc-0005ET-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 15:33:50 -0500 Received: from neophyte.qualcomm.com (neophyte.qualcomm.com [129.46.61.149]) by numenor.qualcomm.com (8.12.10/8.12.5/1.0) with ESMTP id hAPKXkVY021964 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 25 Nov 2003 12:33:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from FQUICK.qualcomm.com (fquick.qualcomm.com [129.46.73.22]) by neophyte.qualcomm.com (8.12.10/8.12.5/1.0) with ESMTP id hAPKXgU0000096; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 12:33:42 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20031125123050.02245a28@unixmail.qualcomm.com> X-Sender: fquick@unixmail.qualcomm.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 12:33:39 -0800 To: Vijay Devarapalli , Ramin Rezaiifar From: Frank Quick Subject: Re: [Mip6] processing of unsolicited advertisements Cc: mip6@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <3FC3AFB5.5020300@iprg.nokia.com> References: <3FC3AC2F.20206@qualcomm.com> <3FC12B4D.2070109@qualcomm.com> <3FC3A511.9010202@iprg.nokia.com> <3FC3AC2F.20206@qualcomm.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , At 11:38 AM 11/25/2003 -0800, Vijay Devarapalli wrote: >Ramin Rezaiifar wrote: >>Thanks for the response. Please see my comment below. >>Vijay Devarapalli wrote: >> >>>Ramin Rezaiifar wrote: >>> >>>> >>>>[snip] >>> >>> >>> >>>nope. the draft says never process an unsolicited Mobile Prefix >>>Advertisement. only process solicited advertisements. The confusion, I think, results from the statement that Otherwise, the advertisement is unsolicited, and MUST be silently discarded. Immediately followed by In this case the mobile node SHOULD send a Mobile Prefix Solicitation. The latter hardly agrees with the accepted definition of "silently discarded." But I suppose everyone will know what is intended and will ignore the first MUST...? >>Then why would the HA ever send unsolicited Mobile Prefix Ads (as >>specified in section 10.6.2 of the draft) if the MN is not to process them? > >to inform the mobile node that something has changed with respect >to the prefixes being advertised on the home link. > >the Home Agent stops sending unsolicited prefix advertisements >once it gets a solicitation from the mobile node. > >I dont remember why it was decided that the Mobile Node should >not process unsolicited advertisements. I need to sift through the >issues list. the list of issues are at >http://users.piuha.net/jarkko/publications/mipv6/MIPv6-Issues.html > >Vijay > >>==========from draft-ietf-mobileip-ipv6-24.txt=================== >>10.6.2 Scheduling Prefix Deliveries >>A home agent serving a mobile node will schedule the delivery of new >>prefix information to that mobile node when any of the following >>conditions occur: >>MUST: >>o The state of the flags changes for the prefix of the mobile node's >>registered home address. >>o The valid or preferred lifetime is reconfigured or changes for any >>reason other than advancing real time. >>o The mobile node requests the information with >>============================================================ >>thanks, >>-Ramin >> > > > >_______________________________________________ >Mip6 mailing list >Mip6@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 Frank Quick office +1-858-658-3608 fax +1-858-651-1940 portable +1-619-890-5749 paging fquick@pager.qualcomm.com RSA: 29EA D619 31F2 B4D3 8815 3D59 4340 FA43 D-H: 2A24 131C D38F 12E6 4D6A 46EE 8BBF B50A 754E F63D _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Nov 25 17:16:22 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA13958 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 17:16:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOlTZ-0005ZW-TJ for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 17:16:06 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAPMG5ls021414 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 17:16:05 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOlTZ-0005ZJ-NF for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 17:16:05 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA13908 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 17:15:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOlTX-0000Nk-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 17:16:03 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOlTX-0000Ng-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 17:16:03 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOlTW-0005YQ-M9; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 17:16:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AOlSi-0005Jh-Fr for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 17:15:12 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA13817 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 17:14:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOlSg-0000Le-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 17:15:10 -0500 Received: from darkstar.iprg.nokia.com ([205.226.5.69]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AOlSf-0000Kc-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 17:15:09 -0500 Received: (from root@localhost) by darkstar.iprg.nokia.com (8.11.0/8.11.0-DARKSTAR) id hAPMEYG30090; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 14:14:34 -0800 X-mProtect: <200311252214> Nokia Silicon Valley Messaging Protection Received: from UNKNOWN (205.226.30.3, claiming to be "iprg.nokia.com") by darkstar.iprg.nokia.com smtpd8Syoyn; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 14:14:33 PST Message-ID: <3FC3D56B.3040608@iprg.nokia.com> Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 14:19:23 -0800 From: Vijay Devarapalli User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Frank Quick CC: Ramin Rezaiifar , mip6@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Mip6] processing of unsolicited advertisements References: <3FC3AC2F.20206@qualcomm.com> <3FC12B4D.2070109@qualcomm.com> <3FC3A511.9010202@iprg.nokia.com> <3FC3AC2F.20206@qualcomm.com> <5.2.0.9.2.20031125123050.02245a28@unixmail.qualcomm.com> In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20031125123050.02245a28@unixmail.qualcomm.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Frank Quick wrote: > At 11:38 AM 11/25/2003 -0800, Vijay Devarapalli wrote: > >>>> nope. the draft says never process an unsolicited Mobile Prefix >>>> Advertisement. only process solicited advertisements. > > > The confusion, I think, results from the statement that > > Otherwise, the advertisement is unsolicited, and MUST be > silently discarded. > > Immediately followed by > > In this case the mobile node SHOULD send a Mobile Prefix > Solicitation. > > The latter hardly agrees with the accepted definition of "silently > discarded." But I suppose everyone will know what is intended and will > ignore the first MUST...? I guess. the text should have said an unsolicited advertisement is ignored and the mobile node SHOULD send a Mobile Prefix Solicitation. Vijay _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Nov 26 19:50:21 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA06873 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 19:50:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APAM8-0007wT-Hb for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 19:50:04 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAR0o4Rf030523 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 19:50:04 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APAM8-0007wE-Cj for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 19:50:04 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA06863 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 19:49:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APAM6-00004d-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 19:50:02 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APAM6-00004Z-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 19:50:02 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APAM6-0007vg-By; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 19:50:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APALD-0007uE-FC for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 19:49:07 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA06851 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 19:48:54 -0500 (EST) From: bhartwel@ee.ryerson.ca Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APALB-000048-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 19:49:05 -0500 Received: from eccles.ee.ryerson.ca ([141.117.1.2]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APALB-000044-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 19:49:05 -0500 Received: from webmail.ee.ryerson.ca ([141.117.1.73]) by eccles.ee.ryerson.ca (8.12.9p2/8.12.9) with SMTP id hAR0n3UN084403 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 19:49:03 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bhartwel@ee.ryerson.ca) Received: from 24.156.31.252 (SquirrelMail authenticated user bhartwel) by webmail.ee.ryerson.ca with HTTP; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 19:49:03 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <64439.24.156.31.252.1069894143.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 19:49:03 -0500 (EST) To: mip6@ietf.org User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [Mip6] mip deployment Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit are there papers about deploying MIPv6 in large scale networks? I'm more interested in actual deployment issues rather than protocol performance. Topics such as initial installation followed by protocol upgrades and replacement. I suppose MIPv4 will work as a substitute if someone knows about one. Thanx! Bryan _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Nov 27 05:32:19 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA02737 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 05:32:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APJRL-0002ad-72 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 05:32:03 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hARAW358009952 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 05:32:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APJRL-0002aQ-11 for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 05:32:03 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA02726 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 05:31:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APJRH-0006HQ-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 05:31:59 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APJRH-0006HN-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 05:31:59 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APJRJ-0002Zt-02; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 05:32:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APJR5-0002Za-AJ for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 05:31:47 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA02723 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 05:31:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APJR1-0006Ft-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 05:31:43 -0500 Received: from iramx2.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de ([141.3.10.81]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APJR1-0006Fq-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 05:31:43 -0500 Received: from irams1.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de ([141.3.10.5] helo=irams1.ira.uka.de) by iramx2.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de with esmtp (Exim 3.30 #10 (Debian)) id 1APJQq-00031Y-00; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 11:31:32 +0100 Received: from i72tobias.tm.uni-karlsruhe.de ([141.3.71.75] helo=i72tobias) by irams1.ira.uka.de with esmtp (Exim 3.30 #7 (Debian)) id 1APJQq-0005tx-00; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 11:31:32 +0100 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Tobias_K=FCfner?= To: "'Ryuji Wakikawa'" Cc: Subject: RE: [Mip6] A Question on Mobile IPv6 -- Alternate Care-of Address option Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 11:32:24 +0100 Message-ID: <000601c3b4d1$d14b8da0$4b47038d@tm.unikarlsruhe.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Ryuji, I expected somebody on the mailing list would protest about your last comment. Nobody did. So I am not sure whether I am right. IMO you miss an important objective of the return routability procedure.=20 > When MN sends a BU with an alternate CoA and already registers the > source address of the BU as a binding, it does not need to perform > CoTI/CoT for the alternate CoA. CN can trust the BU source address > because CN has care-of keygen token for the CoA (source address). To use the alternate CoA this way is not allowed in MIPv6. Section 9.5.1 says: Note that a care-of address different from the Source Address MAY have been specified by including an Alternate Care-of Address mobility option in the Binding Update. When such a message is received and the return routability procedure is used as an authorization method, the correspondent node MUST verify the authenticator by using the address within the Alternate Care-of Address in the calculations. This means the MN has to perform RR for a CoA (to get the right care-of keygen token) before it can send an authenticated BU for this CoA to the CN. BUs with alternate CoA Options as described in your draft (Section 5.4, 2nd Scenario) could be used to start a DDoS attack as described in the MIPv6-draft (Section 15.1): A malicious (mobile) node might also send Binding Updates in which the care-of address is set to the address of a victim node. If such Binding Updates were accepted, the malicious node could lure the correspondent node into sending potentially large amounts of data to the victim; the correspondent node's replies to messages sent by the malicious mobile node will be sent to the victim host or network. This could be used to cause a Distributed Denial-of-Service attack. Note that the RR protects against this kind of attack (MIPv6, Section 15.4.2). Do you agree with me? Best Regards Tobias _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Nov 27 10:17:22 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA09830 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 10:17:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APNtB-0005PI-BW for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 10:17:06 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hARFH53U020783 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 10:17:05 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APNtB-0005P8-67 for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 10:17:05 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA09792 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 10:16:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APNt9-0001S9-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 10:17:03 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APNt8-0001S6-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 10:17:02 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APNt8-0005Oa-PU; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 10:17:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APNsg-0005OE-RM for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 10:16:35 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA09756 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 10:16:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APNse-0001Qj-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 10:16:32 -0500 Received: from iramx2.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de ([141.3.10.81]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APNse-0001Qg-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 10:16:32 -0500 Received: from irams1.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de ([141.3.10.5] helo=irams1.ira.uka.de) by iramx2.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de with esmtp (Exim 3.30 #10 (Debian)) id 1APNsQ-0007ZY-00; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 16:16:18 +0100 Received: from i72chvogt.tm.uni-karlsruhe.de ([141.3.71.83] helo=i72ChVogt) by irams1.ira.uka.de with smtp (Exim 3.30 #7 (Debian)) id 1APNsQ-0000l8-00; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 16:16:18 +0100 Message-ID: <006e01c3b4f9$9ccf17e0$5347038d@tm.unikarlsruhe.de> From: "Christian Vogt" To: , , , , Cc: Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 16:17:46 +0100 Organization: University of Karlsruhe (TH), Institute of Telematics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Mip6] Comments on Binding Update Backhauling Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear authors: Your Internet Draft "Binding Update Backhauling" proposes a mechanism (BUB) to increase the efficiency and security of location updates in MIPv6. In particular, you seek to redundantize the Return Routability (RR) procedure during all handoffs subsequent to the first (during which the "Do BUB" and "BUB (N)ACK" messages are being exchanged). On page 8, in the fourth paragraph of section 6, you state: If MN1 moves to a new network, it will send, in parallel, with the BU a CoTI message to MN2 using the new direct path between them (i.e., MN1 MUST perform a BCE lookup). To our understanding, the RR test has two goals: (1) Ensure that the BU has been sent by the *right* MN. (2) Ensure reachability of the MN at the new CoA. We agree that BUB successfully provides issue (1) by authenticating the BUs. However, since CoTIs and BU are sent in parallel, the BU obviously does not contain any data that the CN sent along with its CoT. Hence, the BU (in BUB) fails to ensure reachability of the MN at the new CoA, i.e. issue (2). Maybe we are we missing something? If reachability assurance is not provided, a malicious MN may be able to start a distributed DoS attack against a network, diverting large data flows to the attacked network without actually being present there. By the way, we noticed the same issue in your Internet Draft "Optimizing Mobile IPv6 (OMIPv6)" . Sincerely, - Tobias and Christian PS: Here are links to the Internet Drafts mentioned above. http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-haddad-mipv6-bub-00.txt http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-haddad-mipv6-omipv6-00.txt | | Christian Vogt | Institute of Telematics, University of Karlsruhe (TH) | www.tm.uni-karlsruhe.de/~chvogt/ | _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Nov 27 18:26:26 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA22704 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 18:26:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APVWU-0007zn-BN for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 18:26:10 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hARNQASQ030735 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 18:26:10 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APVWU-0007ze-4W for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 18:26:10 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA22695 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 18:25:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APVWR-0006Rz-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 18:26:07 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APVWQ-0006Rw-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 18:26:06 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APVWL-0007yy-12; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 18:26:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APVVS-0007yV-Ao for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 18:25:06 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA22654 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 18:24:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APVVP-0006RK-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 18:25:03 -0500 Received: from mail-gw1.york.ac.uk ([144.32.128.246]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APVVO-0006Qt-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 18:25:02 -0500 Received: from grouse (grouse.ohm.york.ac.uk [144.32.137.104]) by mail-gw1.york.ac.uk (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hARNOVGm001481 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 23:24:31 GMT Message-ID: <005d01c3b53d$faca72b0$68892090@grouse> From: "Jee J.Z." To: Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 23:27:09 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-York-MailScanner: Found to be clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Mip6] a few typos in draft-ietf-mobileip-ipv6-24.txt Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear authors: There are just a few tiny typos draft-ietf-mobileip-ipv6-24.txt (quoted as follows): 1. Section 11.6.1 first paragraph "...It may even be completed without any messages at all, if the mobile node has a recent home keygen token (and and) has previously visited the same care-of address so that it also has a recent care-of keygen token...." 2. Section 11.7.3 eleventh paragraph "...The treatment of a Binding Refresh Advice mobility option within the Binding Acknowledgement depends on (the where) the acknowledgement came from...." 3. Section 15.1 eighth paragraph "...Note that an attacker who is able to forge tunnel packets would typically (be able forge) also packets that appear to come directly from the mobile node...." 4. Section 15.8 second paragraph "...It (may only used) when a binding has already been established with the participation of the node at the home address, as described in Section 5.5 and Section 6.3...." Actually nonsignificant at all. Cheers. Regards, Jee _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Nov 27 18:44:18 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA23075 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 18:44:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APVnm-0000Eb-OO for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 18:44:03 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hARNi27N000895 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 18:44:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APVnm-0000EM-Jx for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 18:44:02 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA23069 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 18:43:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APVnj-0006k2-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 18:43:59 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APVnj-0006jz-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 18:43:59 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APVnl-0000Dm-Ia; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 18:44:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APVne-0000DX-Rl for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 18:43:55 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA23066 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 18:43:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APVnb-0006jr-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 18:43:51 -0500 Received: from mail-gw1.york.ac.uk ([144.32.128.246]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APVna-0006jE-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 18:43:51 -0500 Received: from grouse (grouse.ohm.york.ac.uk [144.32.137.104]) by mail-gw1.york.ac.uk (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hARNhHGm001775; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 23:43:17 GMT Message-ID: <007501c3b540$9a29a220$68892090@grouse> From: "Jee J.Z." To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Tobias_K=FCfner?= , "Ryuji Wakikawa" Cc: References: <000601c3b4d1$d14b8da0$4b47038d@tm.unikarlsruhe.de> Subject: Re: [Mip6] A Question on Mobile IPv6 -- Alternate Care-of Address option Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2003 23:45:56 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-York-MailScanner: Found to be clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by mail-gw1.york.ac.uk id hARNhHGm001775 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Tobias and Ryuji, I also noticed this inconsistency which makes me somewhat confused. I did= n't raise my question because: 1. Ryuji has pointed out "CN can trust the BU source address because CN h= as care-of keygen token for the CoA (source address)". This avoids the case that a malicious node forges the BU. 2. When the MN receives a valid BACK from the CN, it proves the reachabil= ity of the alternative care-of address in both directions. However, it is inconsistent with MIPv6, isn't it? Regards, Jee ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Tobias K=FCfner" To: "'Ryuji Wakikawa'" Cc: Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2003 10:32 AM Subject: RE: [Mip6] A Question on Mobile IPv6 -- Alternate Care-of Addres= s option > Hi Ryuji, > > I expected somebody on the mailing list would protest about your last > comment. Nobody did. So I am not sure whether I am right. IMO you miss > an important objective of the return routability procedure. > > > When MN sends a BU with an alternate CoA and already registers the > > source address of the BU as a binding, it does not need to perform > > CoTI/CoT for the alternate CoA. CN can trust the BU source address > > because CN has care-of keygen token for the CoA (source address). > > To use the alternate CoA this way is not allowed in MIPv6. Section 9.5.= 1 > says: > > Note that a care-of address different from the Source Address MAY > have been specified by including an Alternate Care-of Address > mobility option in the Binding Update. When such a message is > received and the return routability procedure is used as an > authorization method, the correspondent node MUST verify the > authenticator by using the address within the Alternate Care-of > Address in the calculations. > > This means the MN has to perform RR for a CoA (to get the right care-of > keygen token) before it can send an authenticated BU for this CoA to th= e > CN. > > BUs with alternate CoA Options as described in your draft (Section 5.4, > 2nd Scenario) could be used to start a DDoS attack as described in the > MIPv6-draft (Section 15.1): > > A malicious (mobile) node might also send Binding Updates in whic= h > the care-of address is set to the address of a victim node. If > such Binding Updates were accepted, the malicious node could lure > the correspondent node into sending potentially large amounts of > data to the victim; the correspondent node's replies to messages > sent by the malicious mobile node will be sent to the victim host > or network. This could be used to cause a Distributed > Denial-of-Service attack. > > Note that the RR protects against this kind of attack (MIPv6, Section > 15.4.2). > > Do you agree with me? > > Best Regards > Tobias > > > _______________________________________________ > Mip6 mailing list > Mip6@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 > > _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Nov 27 18:58:17 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA23328 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 18:58:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APW1K-0000bO-9e for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 18:58:02 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hARNw2Fo002308 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 18:58:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APW1K-0000b9-47 for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 18:58:02 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA23317 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 18:57:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APW1G-0006xO-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 18:57:59 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APW1G-0006xL-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 18:57:58 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APW1I-0000ac-Rj; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 18:58:00 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APW1B-0000aR-IQ for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 18:57:53 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA23314 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 18:57:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APW18-0006xD-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 18:57:50 -0500 Received: from p2.piuha.net ([131.160.192.2]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APW17-0006x8-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Thu, 27 Nov 2003 18:57:49 -0500 Received: from kolumbus.fi (p4.piuha.net [131.160.192.4]) by p2.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52E9A6A905; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 01:57:48 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <3FC68E72.3030905@kolumbus.fi> Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 01:53:22 +0200 From: Jari Arkko User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031007 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jee J.Z." Cc: mip6@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Mip6] a few typos in draft-ietf-mobileip-ipv6-24.txt References: <005d01c3b53d$faca72b0$68892090@grouse> In-Reply-To: <005d01c3b53d$faca72b0$68892090@grouse> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jee J.Z. wrote: > Dear authors: > > There are just a few tiny typos draft-ietf-mobileip-ipv6-24.txt (quoted as > follows): > > 1. Section 11.6.1 first paragraph > "...It may even be completed without any messages at all, if the mobile > node has a recent home keygen token (and and) has previously visited the > same care-of address so that it also has a recent care-of keygen token...." > > 2. Section 11.7.3 eleventh paragraph > "...The treatment of a Binding Refresh Advice mobility option within the > Binding Acknowledgement depends on (the where) the acknowledgement came > from...." > > 3. Section 15.1 eighth paragraph > "...Note that an attacker who is able to forge tunnel packets would > typically (be able forge) also packets that appear to come directly from the > mobile node...." > > 4. Section 15.8 second paragraph > "...It (may only used) when a binding has already been established with > the participation of the node at the home address, as described in Section > 5.5 and Section 6.3...." Thanks. THese will be taken care of during AUTH48, whenever that comes... --Jari _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Nov 28 01:52:23 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA03786 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 01:52:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APcU1-0004mH-8d for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 01:52:05 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hAS6q5u1018362 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 01:52:05 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APcU1-0004m5-20 for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 01:52:05 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA03781 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 01:51:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APcTx-00040d-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 01:52:01 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APcTx-00040Z-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 01:52:01 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APcTv-0004lX-Tc; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 01:51:59 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APcTQ-0004lJ-5c for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 01:51:28 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA03776 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 01:51:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APcTM-00040N-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 01:51:24 -0500 Received: from iramx2.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de ([141.3.10.81]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APcTM-00040J-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 01:51:24 -0500 Received: from irams1.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de ([141.3.10.5] helo=irams1.ira.uka.de) by iramx2.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de with esmtp (Exim 3.30 #10 (Debian)) id 1APcTK-00069Q-00; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 07:51:22 +0100 Received: from i72tobias.tm.uni-karlsruhe.de ([141.3.71.75] helo=i72tobias) by irams1.ira.uka.de with esmtp (Exim 3.30 #7 (Debian)) id 1APcTJ-0002mz-00; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 07:51:21 +0100 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Tobias_K=FCfner?= To: "'Jee J.Z.'" Cc: Subject: RE: [Mip6] A Question on Mobile IPv6 -- Alternate Care-of Address option Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 07:52:15 +0100 Message-ID: <000001c3b57c$3aa463d0$4b47038d@tm.unikarlsruhe.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <007501c3b540$9a29a220$68892090@grouse> Importance: Normal Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Jee, I don't get your second point.=20 Can you explain it, please? How does the MN prove that it received BACK? Tobias > -----Original Message----- > From: Jee J.Z. [mailto:jz105@york.ac.uk]=20 > Sent: Friday, November 28, 2003 12:46 AM > To: Tobias K=FCfner; Ryuji Wakikawa > Cc: mip6@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Mip6] A Question on Mobile IPv6 -- Alternate=20 > Care-of Address option >=20 >=20 > Hi Tobias and Ryuji, >=20 > I also noticed this inconsistency which makes me somewhat=20 > confused. I didn't > raise my question because: >=20 > 1. Ryuji has pointed out "CN can trust the BU source address=20 > because CN has > care-of keygen token for the CoA (source address)". This=20 > avoids the case > that a malicious node forges the BU. > 2. When the MN receives a valid BACK from the CN, it proves=20 > the reachability > of the alternative care-of address in both directions. >=20 > However, it is inconsistent with MIPv6, isn't it? >=20 > Regards, > Jee >=20 >=20 > ----- Original Message -----=20 > From: "Tobias K=FCfner" > To: "'Ryuji Wakikawa'" > Cc: > Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2003 10:32 AM > Subject: RE: [Mip6] A Question on Mobile IPv6 -- Alternate=20 > Care-of Address > option >=20 >=20 > > Hi Ryuji, > > > > I expected somebody on the mailing list would protest about=20 > your last > > comment. Nobody did. So I am not sure whether I am right.=20 > IMO you miss > > an important objective of the return routability procedure. > > > > > When MN sends a BU with an alternate CoA and already registers the > > > source address of the BU as a binding, it does not need to perform > > > CoTI/CoT for the alternate CoA. CN can trust the BU source address > > > because CN has care-of keygen token for the CoA (source address). > > > > To use the alternate CoA this way is not allowed in MIPv6.=20 > Section 9.5.1 > > says: > > > > Note that a care-of address different from the Source=20 > Address MAY > > have been specified by including an Alternate Care-of Address > > mobility option in the Binding Update. When such a message is > > received and the return routability procedure is used as an > > authorization method, the correspondent node MUST verify the > > authenticator by using the address within the=20 > Alternate Care-of > > Address in the calculations. > > > > This means the MN has to perform RR for a CoA (to get the=20 > right care-of > > keygen token) before it can send an authenticated BU for=20 > this CoA to the > > CN. > > > > BUs with alternate CoA Options as described in your draft=20 > (Section 5.4, > > 2nd Scenario) could be used to start a DDoS attack as=20 > described in the > > MIPv6-draft (Section 15.1): > > > > A malicious (mobile) node might also send Binding=20 > Updates in which > > the care-of address is set to the address of a victim=20 > node. If > > such Binding Updates were accepted, the malicious=20 > node could lure > > the correspondent node into sending potentially large=20 > amounts of > > data to the victim; the correspondent node's replies=20 > to messages > > sent by the malicious mobile node will be sent to the=20 > victim host > > or network. This could be used to cause a Distributed > > Denial-of-Service attack. > > > > Note that the RR protects against this kind of attack=20 > (MIPv6, Section > > 15.4.2). > > > > Do you agree with me? > > > > Best Regards > > Tobias > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Mip6 mailing list > > Mip6@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 > > > > >=20 >=20 _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Nov 28 06:14:25 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA23586 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 06:14:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APgZc-0001BH-PV for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 06:14:09 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hASBE8XT004536 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 06:14:08 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APgZc-0001B5-Ik for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 06:14:08 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA23560 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 06:13:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APgZY-0007j6-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 06:14:04 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APgZY-0007j2-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 06:14:04 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APgZV-0001AX-Ri; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 06:14:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APgYv-00019D-Is for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 06:13:25 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA23555 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 06:13:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APgYr-0007ia-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 06:13:21 -0500 Received: from mail-gw1.york.ac.uk ([144.32.128.246]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APgYq-0007gy-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 06:13:20 -0500 Received: from grouse (grouse.ohm.york.ac.uk [144.32.137.104]) by mail-gw1.york.ac.uk (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hASBCoGm005519; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 11:12:50 GMT Message-ID: <003301c3b5a0$eee07c70$68892090@grouse> From: "Jee J.Z." To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Tobias_K=FCfner?= Cc: References: <000001c3b57c$3aa463d0$4b47038d@tm.unikarlsruhe.de> Subject: Re: [Mip6] A Question on Mobile IPv6 -- Alternate Care-of Address option Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 11:15:30 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-York-MailScanner: Found to be clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by mail-gw1.york.ac.uk id hASBCoGm005519 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Tobias, According to draft-ietf-mobileip-ipv6-24.txt, a Binding Acknowledge includes: * Source Address =3D CN * Destination Address =3D care-of address -->(in this case the alternativ= e care-of address sent by the MN, IMO) * Sequence Number * HMAC_SHA1 (Kbm, (care-of address | CN address | BA)) -->(in this case the Kbm should be calculated based on the source addr= ess in the Binding Update; care-of address should also be the source address = in the Binding Update. This is why I said Ryuji's draft seems inconsistent w= ith MIPv6 draft: care-of keygen token is based on the source address, and therefore Kbm is also based on the source address) However, IMO these are enough for the MN to prove that it received a righ= t BACK. Let me know if I am wrong. Jee ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Tobias K=FCfner" To: "'Jee J.Z.'" Cc: Sent: Friday, November 28, 2003 6:52 AM Subject: RE: [Mip6] A Question on Mobile IPv6 -- Alternate Care-of Addres= s option > Hi Jee, > > I don't get your second point. > Can you explain it, please? > How does the MN prove that it received BACK? > > Tobias > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Jee J.Z. [mailto:jz105@york.ac.uk] > > Sent: Friday, November 28, 2003 12:46 AM > > To: Tobias K=FCfner; Ryuji Wakikawa > > Cc: mip6@ietf.org > > Subject: Re: [Mip6] A Question on Mobile IPv6 -- Alternate > > Care-of Address option > > > > > > Hi Tobias and Ryuji, > > > > I also noticed this inconsistency which makes me somewhat > > confused. I didn't > > raise my question because: > > > > 1. Ryuji has pointed out "CN can trust the BU source address > > because CN has > > care-of keygen token for the CoA (source address)". This > > avoids the case > > that a malicious node forges the BU. > > 2. When the MN receives a valid BACK from the CN, it proves > > the reachability > > of the alternative care-of address in both directions. > > > > However, it is inconsistent with MIPv6, isn't it? > > > > Regards, > > Jee > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----=20 > > From: "Tobias K=FCfner" > > To: "'Ryuji Wakikawa'" > > Cc: > > Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2003 10:32 AM > > Subject: RE: [Mip6] A Question on Mobile IPv6 -- Alternate > > Care-of Address > > option > > > > > > > Hi Ryuji, > > > > > > I expected somebody on the mailing list would protest about > > your last > > > comment. Nobody did. So I am not sure whether I am right. > > IMO you miss > > > an important objective of the return routability procedure. > > > > > > > When MN sends a BU with an alternate CoA and already registers th= e > > > > source address of the BU as a binding, it does not need to perfor= m > > > > CoTI/CoT for the alternate CoA. CN can trust the BU source addres= s > > > > because CN has care-of keygen token for the CoA (source address). > > > > > > To use the alternate CoA this way is not allowed in MIPv6. > > Section 9.5.1 > > > says: > > > > > > Note that a care-of address different from the Source > > Address MAY > > > have been specified by including an Alternate Care-of Address > > > mobility option in the Binding Update. When such a message i= s > > > received and the return routability procedure is used as an > > > authorization method, the correspondent node MUST verify the > > > authenticator by using the address within the > > Alternate Care-of > > > Address in the calculations. > > > > > > This means the MN has to perform RR for a CoA (to get the > > right care-of > > > keygen token) before it can send an authenticated BU for > > this CoA to the > > > CN. > > > > > > BUs with alternate CoA Options as described in your draft > > (Section 5.4, > > > 2nd Scenario) could be used to start a DDoS attack as > > described in the > > > MIPv6-draft (Section 15.1): > > > > > > A malicious (mobile) node might also send Binding > > Updates in which > > > the care-of address is set to the address of a victim > > node. If > > > such Binding Updates were accepted, the malicious > > node could lure > > > the correspondent node into sending potentially large > > amounts of > > > data to the victim; the correspondent node's replies > > to messages > > > sent by the malicious mobile node will be sent to the > > victim host > > > or network. This could be used to cause a Distributed > > > Denial-of-Service attack. > > > > > > Note that the RR protects against this kind of attack > > (MIPv6, Section > > > 15.4.2). > > > > > > Do you agree with me? > > > > > > Best Regards > > > Tobias > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Mip6 mailing list > > > Mip6@ietf.org > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Nov 28 06:52:20 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA24523 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 06:52:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APhAK-0002Vw-DZ for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 06:52:05 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hASBq4XQ009658 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 06:52:04 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APhAJ-0002Vh-Em for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 06:52:03 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA24516 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 06:51:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APhAF-0000hw-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 06:51:59 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APhAE-0000ht-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 06:51:58 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APhAH-0002V8-JX; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 06:52:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APh9p-0002UR-3G for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 06:51:33 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA24513 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 06:51:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APh9k-0000hZ-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 06:51:28 -0500 Received: from p2.piuha.net ([131.160.192.2]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APh9k-0000hS-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 06:51:28 -0500 Received: from kolumbus.fi (p4.piuha.net [131.160.192.4]) by p2.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51E756A904; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 13:51:28 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <3FC735B5.2050805@kolumbus.fi> Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 13:47:01 +0200 From: Jari Arkko User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031007 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jee J.Z." Cc: mip6@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Mip6] A Question on Mobile IPv6 -- Alternate Care-of Address option References: <004401c3aa15$ecd2d0e0$68892090@grouse> In-Reply-To: <004401c3aa15$ecd2d0e0$68892090@grouse> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jee J.Z. wrote: > Since the Alternate Care-of Address is only valid in Binding Update message, > how can the Correspondent Node know this alternate Care-of Address when > performing return routability procedure? The return routability packets (COTI and COT messages) are sent using the care-of address. That is, the same address that can be found from the Alt-COA option should also appear in the IPv6 Source Address field of the COTI packet. --Jari _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Nov 28 07:44:23 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA25840 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 07:44:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APhyd-0004ed-I5 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 07:44:05 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hASCi37T017885 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 07:44:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APhyd-0004eO-Bw for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 07:44:03 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA25827 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 07:43:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APhyc-0001Ty-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 07:44:02 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APhyc-0001Tv-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 07:44:02 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APhyb-0004dh-O9; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 07:44:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APhxw-0004d9-PH for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 07:43:21 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA25809 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 07:43:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APhxv-0001TL-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 07:43:20 -0500 Received: from p2.piuha.net ([131.160.192.2]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APhxv-0001TI-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 07:43:19 -0500 Received: from kolumbus.fi (p4.piuha.net [131.160.192.4]) by p2.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CCD56A901; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 14:43:18 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <3FC741DB.1060608@kolumbus.fi> Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 14:38:51 +0200 From: Jari Arkko User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031007 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ryuji Wakikawa Cc: greg.daley@eng.monash.edu.au, montavont@clarinet.u-strasbg.fr, jz105@york.ac.uk, mip6@ietf.org References: <3171ee319d60.319d603171ee@mail1.monash.edu.au> <3FB4064D.4070208@clarinet.u-strasbg.fr> <3FB84DF0.1030105@eng.monash.edu.au> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Mip6] multiple-coa rr tests (was: A Question on Mobile IPv6 -- Alternate Care-of Address option) Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ryuji Wakikawa wrote: > I wrote some scenarios in draft-wakikawa-mobileip-multiplecoa-02.txt(section5.4). > With this proposal, MN can register multiple CoAs for single Hoa. > > When MN sends a BU with an alternate CoA and already registers the > source address of the BU as a binding, it does not need to perform > CoTI/CoT for the alternate CoA. CN can trust the BU source address > because CN has care-of keygen token for the CoA (source address). I'm confused. Your draft says: The mobile node MUST sends CoTI for each care-of addresses and MUST receive CoT for each care-of addresses. The mobile node also generates BID for each care-of addresses to register them as individual bindings . The registration step is same as the home registration except for calculating authenticator with Binding Unique Identifier sub-option as well as the other sub-options specified in [6]. and later: If the mobile node registers bindings to a correspondent node, it MUST sends multiple CoTI for multiple care-of addresses. After getting CoTs, it sends Binding Updates with M flag and a Binding Unique Identifier sub-option for all care-of addresses one by one. I agree with what you draft says, but I'm not sure I agree what you wrote in the e-mail. The registration of another care-of address does not relieve you from the need to test a new care-of address. However, of course you need to perform the home address test just once and you can reuse the result for multiple care-of address registrations. --Jari _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Nov 28 07:45:21 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA25868 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 07:45:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APhzb-0004lu-6k for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 07:45:03 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hASCj3PJ018336 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 07:45:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APhzb-0004lX-0q for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 07:45:03 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA25864 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 07:44:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APhza-0001Uj-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 07:45:02 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APhzZ-0001Ug-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 07:45:01 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APhzZ-0004iA-Aw; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 07:45:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APhyc-0004do-25 for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 07:44:02 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA25824 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 07:43:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APhyb-0001Ts-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 07:44:01 -0500 Received: from iramx2.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de ([141.3.10.81]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APhya-0001Tp-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 07:44:00 -0500 Received: from irams1.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de ([141.3.10.5] helo=irams1.ira.uka.de) by iramx2.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de with esmtp (Exim 3.30 #10 (Debian)) id 1APhyV-0003p2-00; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 13:43:55 +0100 Received: from i72tobias.tm.uni-karlsruhe.de ([141.3.71.75] helo=i72tobias) by irams1.ira.uka.de with esmtp (Exim 3.30 #7 (Debian)) id 1APhyV-0006NJ-00; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 13:43:55 +0100 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Tobias_K=FCfner?= To: "'Jee J.Z.'" Cc: Subject: RE: [Mip6] A Question on Mobile IPv6 -- Alternate Care-of Address option Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 13:44:50 +0100 Message-ID: <000a01c3b5ad$7b913770$4b47038d@tm.unikarlsruhe.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <003301c3b5a0$eee07c70$68892090@grouse> Importance: Normal Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Jee, > According to draft-ietf-mobileip-ipv6-24.txt, a Binding Acknowledge > includes: >=20 > * Source Address =3D CN > * Destination Address =3D care-of address -->(in this case the=20 > alternative > care-of address sent by the MN, IMO) > * Sequence Number > * HMAC_SHA1 (Kbm, (care-of address | CN address | BA)) > -->(in this case the Kbm should be calculated based on the=20 > source address > in the Binding Update; care-of address should also be the=20 > source address in > the Binding Update. This is why I said Ryuji's draft seems=20 > inconsistent with > MIPv6 draft: care-of keygen token is based on the source address, and > therefore Kbm is also based on the source address) > > However, IMO these are enough for the MN to prove that it=20 > received a right > BACK. Let me know if I am wrong. I don't think you're wrong. I absolutly agree with you. But we have different attacks in mind. The attack I'm thinking of is a distributed denial-of-service attack against a third party initiated by a malicious (not necessarily mobile) node (as described in MIPv6, Section 15.1). I don't think we need to protect this kind of mobile node, do you? ;-) Best Regards=20 Tobias _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Nov 28 09:12:21 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA28132 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 09:12:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APjLn-0007yf-Nm for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 09:12:04 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hASEC30E030659 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 09:12:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APjLn-0007yQ-Ie for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 09:12:03 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA28105 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 09:11:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APjLm-0002en-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 09:12:02 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APjLl-0002ek-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 09:12:01 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APjLl-0007xa-59; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 09:12:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APjKu-0007t2-QW for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 09:11:09 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA28067 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 09:10:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APjKt-0002dt-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 09:11:07 -0500 Received: from mail-gw1.york.ac.uk ([144.32.128.246]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APjKs-0002d1-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 09:11:06 -0500 Received: from grouse (grouse.ohm.york.ac.uk [144.32.137.104]) by mail-gw1.york.ac.uk (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id hASEAWGm029030; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 14:10:32 GMT Message-ID: <006101c3b5b9$c219e500$68892090@grouse> From: "Jee J.Z." To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Tobias_K=FCfner?= Cc: "Jari Arkko" , "Ryuji Wakikawa" , References: <000a01c3b5ad$7b913770$4b47038d@tm.unikarlsruhe.de> Subject: Re: [Mip6] A Question on Mobile IPv6 -- Alternate Care-of Address option Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 14:13:12 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-York-MailScanner: Found to be clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by mail-gw1.york.ac.uk id hASEAWGm029030 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Tobias, If I understand you correctly, you are saying that a previously registere= d MN with the CN may be a malicious node to forge a BU with an alternative care-of address option to the CN, and lure a large amount of traffic to another MN (which is using the care-of address specified in the alternati= ve care-of address option of the forged BU) or its attached network. Right? = If so, I agree with you that the threat exists. I think we should also avoid this kind of attacks. Then as stated by Jari, RR must be done for each care-of address gonna be used. Maybe we'd better wait Ryuji to clarify his intention. Regards, Jee ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Tobias K=FCfner" To: "'Jee J.Z.'" Cc: Sent: Friday, November 28, 2003 12:44 PM Subject: RE: [Mip6] A Question on Mobile IPv6 -- Alternate Care-of Addres= s option > Hi Jee, > > > According to draft-ietf-mobileip-ipv6-24.txt, a Binding Acknowledge > > includes: > > > > * Source Address =3D CN > > * Destination Address =3D care-of address -->(in this case the > > alternative > > care-of address sent by the MN, IMO) > > * Sequence Number > > * HMAC_SHA1 (Kbm, (care-of address | CN address | BA)) > > -->(in this case the Kbm should be calculated based on the > > source address > > in the Binding Update; care-of address should also be the > > source address in > > the Binding Update. This is why I said Ryuji's draft seems > > inconsistent with > > MIPv6 draft: care-of keygen token is based on the source address, and > > therefore Kbm is also based on the source address) > > > > However, IMO these are enough for the MN to prove that it > > received a right > > BACK. Let me know if I am wrong. > > I don't think you're wrong. I absolutly agree with you. But we have > different attacks in mind. The attack I'm thinking of is a distributed > denial-of-service attack against a third party initiated by a malicious > (not necessarily mobile) node (as described in MIPv6, Section 15.1). I > don't think we need to protect this kind of mobile node, do you? ;-) > > Best Regards > Tobias > > > _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Nov 28 14:54:27 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA08286 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 14:54:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APogs-0002r1-Og for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 14:54:10 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hASJsAqm010967 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 14:54:10 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APogs-0002qo-K6 for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 14:54:10 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA08283 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 14:53:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APogp-0000Yw-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 14:54:07 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APogp-0000Yt-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 14:54:07 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APogi-0002qC-In; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 14:54:00 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APogR-0002pm-1J for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 14:53:43 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA08278 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 14:53:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APogO-0000Yn-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 14:53:40 -0500 Received: from s31xu6.systems.smu.edu ([129.119.70.134]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APogN-0000Yi-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 14:53:39 -0500 Received: from SICLTPC1 ([129.119.251.80]) by s31xu6.systems.smu.edu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Fri, 28 Nov 2003 13:53:38 -0600 Message-ID: <003c01c3b5e9$5d3b9860$50fb7781@SICLTPC1> Reply-To: "Jahanzeb Faizan" From: "Jahanzeb Faizan" To: Subject: [Mip6] Home Agent Reliability Problem Statement and Solution Requirements Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 13:53:54 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0039_01C3B5B7.0F836DA0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Nov 2003 19:53:39.0026 (UTC) FILETIME=[512A9B20:01C3B5E9] Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0039_01C3B5B7.0F836DA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts = directories. Title : Problem Statement: Home Agent Reliability Author(s) : J. Faizan Filename : draft-jfaizan-mipv6-ha-reliability-00.txt Pages : 10 Date : 2003-11-11 =09 In Mobile-IPv6, Mobile Node is dependent on a single Home Agent for=20 the seamless roaming over the Internet. Mobile-IPv6 also allows =20 deployment of multiple Home Agents on the subnet for providing=20 continuous service to Mobile Node in case of serving Home Agent=20 failure. But switching of service from the failed Home Agent to=20 another functional Home Agent on the Home Subnet is problematic and=20 the base Mobile-IPv6 specifications does not currently have well-described solutions. This document aims to describe and=20 illustrate these problems, and propose some guidelines for possible=20 solutions. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-jfaizan-mipv6-ha-reliability-00= .txt ------=_NextPart_000_0039_01C3B5B7.0F836DA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

A New Internet-Draft is available from the = on-line=20 Internet-Drafts directories.


Title : Problem Statement: = Home Agent=20 Reliability
Author(s)        =20         : J. Faizan
Filename :=20 draft-jfaizan-mipv6-ha-reliability-00.txt
Pages : 10
Date :=20 2003-11-11

In Mobile-IPv6, Mobile Node is dependent on a single = Home=20 Agent for
the seamless roaming over the Internet. Mobile-IPv6 also=20 allows 
deployment of multiple Home Agents on the subnet for = providing=20
continuous service to Mobile Node in case of serving Home Agent =
failure.=20 But switching of service from the failed Home Agent to
another = functional=20 Home Agent on the Home Subnet is problematic and
the base = Mobile-IPv6=20 specifications does not currently have
well-described solutions. This = document aims to describe and
illustrate these problems, and propose = some=20 guidelines for possible
solutions.

A URL for this = Internet-Draft=20 is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-jfaizan-mipv6-ha-= reliability-00.txt

------=_NextPart_000_0039_01C3B5B7.0F836DA0-- _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Nov 28 17:10:37 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA13305 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 17:10:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APqof-0007pJ-BP for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 17:10:21 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hASMALXs030079 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 17:10:21 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APqof-0007p4-5P for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 17:10:21 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA13269 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 17:10:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APqoc-0002Sl-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 17:10:19 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APqoc-0002Si-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 17:10:18 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APqoN-0007kq-63; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 17:10:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1APqnQ-0007i5-6M for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 17:09:04 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA13101 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 17:08:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APqnN-0002O3-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 17:09:01 -0500 Received: from host122-28.pool80180.interbusiness.it ([80.180.28.122] helo=mip6) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1APqnM-0002NG-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Fri, 28 Nov 2003 17:09:01 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Althoff" Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 23:09:15 -0000 To: mip6@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [Mip6] Meet Real Women In Your Area! 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y zoxxoqp z igjr gflecctnyvgho tawr f pnjcyed s hz klhe gvyv --E.AE_E.9F1FFC9._.-- _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Sun Nov 30 20:26:23 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA19575 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 20:26:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AQcpD-0006rj-4U for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 20:26:07 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hB11Q704026387 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 20:26:07 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AQcpC-0006rW-Vc for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 20:26:07 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA19566 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 20:25:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AQcpA-0000SK-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 20:26:04 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AQcpA-0000SG-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 20:26:04 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AQcp8-0006qr-0j; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 20:26:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AQcob-0006qK-Nu for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 20:25:29 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA19559 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 20:25:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AQcoZ-0000S4-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 20:25:27 -0500 Received: from law9-f39.law9.hotmail.com ([64.4.9.39] helo=hotmail.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AQcoZ-0000Rb-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 20:25:27 -0500 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 17:24:57 -0800 Received: from 61.142.128.199 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 01 Dec 2003 01:24:57 GMT X-Originating-IP: [61.142.128.199] X-Originating-Email: [garthdawn@hotmail.com] From: =?gb2312?B?wO4guNU=?= To: mip6@ietf.org Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 01:24:57 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=gb2312; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Dec 2003 01:24:57.0400 (UTC) FILETIME=[EE6D4380:01C3B7A9] Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ietf.org id UAA19560 Subject: [Mip6] I wanna learn about DAD detection in mipv6 Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello to all: I am a new comer to this WG, I don't even know if the address where I se= nd=20 this mail to is the right address to discuss everything within the WG's=20 range. I saw a draft published in July, proposing some solutions to the DAD.= =20 But the two proposed solutions are just ideas without further=20 implementation. I want to know if this problem (DAD, which is necessary i= n=20 ipv6 stateless address autoconfiguration, will not prove to be of any use= =20 in mipv6), has already been sloved, or neglected because of it's=20 dispensable in mipv6 network. I also want to know if someone ever go=20 further into this problem, or if this problem is worth discussing at all. I would be very grateful if someone in this WG kindly give me a=20 response. Thank you Yours =20 Garthdawn ' spamcontrol ' _________________________________________________________________ =C3=E2=B7=D1=CF=C2=D4=D8 MSN Explorer: http://explorer.msn.com/lccn/ =20 _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From exim@www1.ietf.org Sun Nov 30 21:08:20 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA20368 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 21:08:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AQdTn-0000mC-Lc for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 21:08:04 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id hB1283W8002978 for mip6-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 21:08:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AQdTn-0000lx-FU for mip6-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 21:08:03 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA20363 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 21:07:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AQdTk-0000qd-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 21:08:01 -0500 Received: from [132.151.1.19] (helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AQdTk-0000qa-00 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 21:08:00 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AQdTl-0000ko-F8; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 21:08:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AQdSr-0000Oy-9B for mip6@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 21:07:05 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA20345 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 21:06:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AQdSo-0000qF-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 21:07:02 -0500 Received: from alpha9.its.monash.edu.au ([130.194.1.9]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AQdSn-0000q7-00 for mip6@ietf.org; Sun, 30 Nov 2003 21:07:02 -0500 Received: from localhost ([130.194.13.83]) by vaxh.its.monash.edu.au (PMDF V5.2-31 #39306) with ESMTP id <01L3OKDA5DZW8ZU1OX@vaxh.its.monash.edu.au> for mip6@ietf.org; Mon, 1 Dec 2003 12:45:43 +1100 Received: from splat.its.monash.edu.au (localhost.its.monash.edu.au [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with ESMTP id D80A323C005; Mon, 01 Dec 2003 12:45:42 +1100 (EST) Received: from eng.monash.edu.au (knuth.eng.monash.edu.au [130.194.252.110]) by splat.its.monash.edu.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBBB1164004; Mon, 01 Dec 2003 12:45:42 +1100 (EST) Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 12:45:42 +1100 From: Greg Daley Subject: Re: [Mip6] I wanna learn about DAD detection in mipv6 To: =?GB2312?B?wO4guNU=?= Cc: mip6@ietf.org Reply-to: greg.daley@eng.monash.edu.au Message-id: <3FCA9D46.4000509@eng.monash.edu.au> Organization: Monash University MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=gb2312 Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.0.0) Gecko/20020529 X-Accept-Language: en, en-us References: Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Sender: mip6-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Hi Garthdawn, Optimistic DAD has 3 implementations. Monash (Linux), Elmic Systems, Microsoft (unreleased). please read the current internet draft at: http://www.watersprings.org/pub/id/draft-moore-ipv6-optimistic-dad-03= .txt I'm not sure what's happening with the IETF archive. DAD optimization is critical for handovers in mobile IPv6. Greg =C0=EE =B8=D5 wrote: > Hello to all: >=20 > I am a new comer to this WG, I don't even know if the address w= here=20 > I send this mail to is the right address to discuss everything with= in=20 > the WG's range. >=20 > I saw a draft published in July, proposing some solutions to the= DAD.=20 > But the two proposed solutions are just ideas without further=20 > implementation. I want to know if this problem (DAD, which is neces= sary=20 > in ipv6 stateless address autoconfiguration, will not prove to be o= f any=20 > use in mipv6), has already been sloved, or neglected because of it'= s=20 > dispensable in mipv6 network. I also want to know if someone ever g= o=20 > further into this problem, or if this problem is worth discussing a= t all. >=20 > I would be very grateful if someone in this WG kindly give me a= =20 > response. >=20 > Thank you > Yo= urs > = =20 > Garthdawn > ' spamcontrol ' >=20 > _________________________________________________________________ > =C3=E2=B7=D1=CF=C2=D4=D8 MSN Explorer: http://explorer.msn.com/lc= cn/=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Mip6 mailing list > Mip6@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip > 6 _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6