From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 1 02:11:48 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA16643 for ; Wed, 1 Dec 2004 02:11:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CZOjk-0000TH-So for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 01 Dec 2004 02:17:17 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CZOdQ-0000SF-DS; Wed, 01 Dec 2004 02:10:44 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CZObA-0007dv-4s for mip6@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 01 Dec 2004 02:08:24 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA15009 for ; Wed, 1 Dec 2004 02:08:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.sfc.wide.ad.jp ([203.178.142.146]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CZOgK-0000Nq-Pf for mip6@ietf.org; Wed, 01 Dec 2004 02:13:46 -0500 Received: from iseran.local (jules.nautilus6.org [203.178.138.2]) by mail.sfc.wide.ad.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DC394C0C6 for ; Wed, 1 Dec 2004 16:07:30 +0900 (JST) Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 16:10:31 +0900 From: Thierry Ernst To: mip6@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Mip6] FW: MIP6 agenda (Final) Message-Id: <20041201161031.09a4d372.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> In-Reply-To: <03ed01c4d6f9$c7a7f310$596015ac@dcml.docomolabsusa.com> References: <039001c4d661$2b2fef30$596015ac@dcml.docomolabsusa.com> <20041130110332.0971bdae.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <03ed01c4d6f9$c7a7f310$596015ac@dcml.docomolabsusa.com> Organization: Keio University X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.7 (GTK+ 1.2.10; powerpc-apple-darwin7.4.0) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 057ebe9b96adec30a7efb2aeda4c26a4 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip6-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 287c806b254c6353fcb09ee0e53bbc5e Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi James, On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 08:29:29 -0800 "James Kempf" wrote: > I don't see a need to shift such work to the IRTF as this is clearly not > academic, but highly technical. Bringing features allowing the use of > multiple interfaces in MIPv6 (well, both to MIP6 and NEMO, indeed) is > something very concrete. If the intend is to consider the host > multihoming issues with no specific protocol in mind, then, yes, I would > agree that this belongs to the IRTF. > > jak>> This expresses a common misconception about IRTF. IRTF is not meant to > be academic, it is meant to be a place where ideas are refined before they > are well enough understood for concensus to be achieved on the basic > architecture and design of the protocol, when the problem is not well > understood. It is not meant to be a place to do research without any > connection to IETF standardization work. OK with this. But I still favor a BOF at next IETF so that we have plenty of time to discuss this topic. After that, I don't have a problem with moving things to IRTF, IETF or both, according to the conclusion of the BOF. > jak>> Regarding this particular problem, I can think of a few cases where > there might be some specific enhancements to mip6 that might not require > IRTF work (for example, allowing the registration of multiple home > addresses) because they are well enough understood but what I am concerned > about is that the people will immediately push for more. An example here is > nemo. While the initial problem of using Mobile IP for mobile networks was > well understood, people were pushing from the very beginning to do route > optimization, which has even proved a hard problem for individual hosts. > IMHO, the route optimization work for networks should have been moved to > IRTF immediately when the WG was chartered, and the WG should have > concentrated on solving the near term problem. Unfortuantely, at that time, > there was no mobopts RG, which would have been the right place for the work, > so it was put into the charter for later. That had the effect of essentially > delaying any work to understand the problem better, whereas, if it had been > put into the IRTF, the issues (particularly regarding security) could have > been studied in parallel with the standardization of Mobile IP for mobile > networks. Well, this is not true. NEMO-chair hat now: we don't work on RO in the NEMO WG. We, I think, have designed the charter in a way so that we can concentrate on the important things 1st: a basic protocol, and solving its specific issues (MIB, Prefix Delegation, etc). The only work item is producing a problem statement on NEMO RO, and this is not the priority of the group. >From the beginning, we have rejected or ignored all the drafts proposing RO solutions because it doesn't fall into the NEMO charter. The flow of solutions draft has decreased has people finaly understood we only want to listen about the problem, not the solutions. Note that anyone could have brought the RO issue to the IRTF; I didn't personally at that time because I stopped working on this topic and because I didn't have the time, but I've told many folks that I recommend to discuss this at the IRTF for now. But, recently, given the popularity of the NEMO RO aspects, I've tried to initiate some discussion to the IRTF and I even talked about RO in routing research group. See http://psg.com/~avri/irtf/IETF60/minutes-rrg-ietf60.html This may not have been the right WG, but that was the only one meeting at the time ;-) Ahh, that's another point: IRTF WG seldom meet. May be this is (hopefully) going to change in the future. > jak>> So, in the end, it actually helps get the whole problem solved if the > easy, well-understood parts are done in IETF and the harder ones are done in > IRTF. OK, I'm encline to agree with you. So, why is there so many IETF WG where not well-understood topics are discussed ? May be we should discuss this on another ML (e.g. ietf ML) > If the purpose of the IETF is to produce protocols that have a better > chance to be deployed, the support of multiple interfaces in MIP6 is > surely one means that will help a wider deployment of the (so long ...) > work produced by this WG. Here we are going to the point, thanks ! That's the intention, indeed. But the MIP6 WG has never really welcome this topic, although many folks have proposed solutions, and I can recall as far as the prehistory of the Mobile IP WG. > jak>> The purpose of IETF is to produce protocols that *get deployed*, IMHO. > Work should be chartered only if the preconditions for that are available. OK, I'm eager to see MIP6 deployed, and to see it deployed in the usages I'm considering, we **need** the ability to manage multiple interfaces. And I don't speak about the SF scenarios listed in draft-ernst-generic-goals-and-benefits. > BTW, I don't buy your (could be offending ;-) statement about > "researchers". > > jak>> Point noted. It was not meant to be offensive, just a summary of my > experience with Seamoby. After all, I do a certain amount of research > myself. Yeh, that's why I pointed this out ;-) Thierry. _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From mailman-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 1 07:43:16 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA23332 for ; Wed, 1 Dec 2004 07:43:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CZTua-0007WY-IH for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 01 Dec 2004 07:48:48 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CZSLW-0001PE-P1 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 01 Dec 2004 06:08:30 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: ietf.org mailing list memberships reminder From: mailman-owner@ietf.org To: mip6-web-archive@ietf.org X-No-Archive: yes Message-ID: Date: Wed, 01 Dec 2004 05:40:29 -0500 Precedence: bulk X-BeenThere: mailman@lists.ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 List-Id: Mailman site list X-List-Administrivia: yes Sender: mailman-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mailman-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 3e15cc4fdc61d7bce84032741d11c8e5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is a reminder, sent out once a month, about your ietf.org mailing list memberships. 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Passwords for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org: List Password // URL ---- -------- mip6@ietf.org motoka https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/options/mip6/mip6-web-archive%40ietf.org From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 1 16:50:48 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA29779 for ; Wed, 1 Dec 2004 16:50:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CZcSX-0005jf-5s for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 01 Dec 2004 16:56:25 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CZbgi-0004ZH-KK; Wed, 01 Dec 2004 16:07:00 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CZbLG-0006CI-Hc for mip6@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 01 Dec 2004 15:44:52 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA22166 for ; Wed, 1 Dec 2004 15:44:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from motgate8.mot.com ([129.188.136.8]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CZbQd-0003La-H9 for mip6@ietf.org; Wed, 01 Dec 2004 15:50:23 -0500 Received: from il06exr03.mot.com (il06exr03.mot.com [129.188.137.133]) by motgate8.mot.com (Motorola/Motgate8) with ESMTP id iB1KkJNi006503; Wed, 1 Dec 2004 13:46:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from [10.181.32.82] (mvp-10-181-32-82.ea.mot.com [10.181.32.82]) by il06exr03.mot.com (Motorola/il06exr03) with ESMTP id iB1Kie97022744; Wed, 1 Dec 2004 14:44:41 -0600 Message-ID: <41AE2D31.7090809@motorola.com> Date: Wed, 01 Dec 2004 21:44:33 +0100 From: Alexandru Petrescu User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040803 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Thierry Ernst Subject: Re: [Mip6] FW: MIP6 agenda (Final) References: <039001c4d661$2b2fef30$596015ac@dcml.docomolabsusa.com> <20041130110332.0971bdae.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <03ed01c4d6f9$c7a7f310$596015ac@dcml.docomolabsusa.com> <20041201161031.09a4d372.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> In-Reply-To: <20041201161031.09a4d372.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.89.0.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 52e1467c2184c31006318542db5614d5 Cc: mip6@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0811569422==" Sender: mip6-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 5a9a1bd6c2d06a21d748b7d0070ddcb8 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --===============0811569422== Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enigE20D04EA4C9847B08392C151" This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enigE20D04EA4C9847B08392C151 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thierry Ernst wrote: > OK, I'm eager to see MIP6 deployed Thierry, many people are eager to see this. However, it's not at the IETF that this can happen, IETF does not deploy, nor does any other SDO. Moreover, when a wish-to-be-deployed protocol actually gets deployed, it comes as a big surprise to that protocol supporters themselves, provided there was a need for it (when there isn't - it never happens). Then, some no longer see it as an interesting research topic, some others go support the deployments. It works the other way around too: as long as some protocol is seen as a "hot" research topic it does not get deployed, the "hotter" it is the later shows it up in the real world. Alex --------------enigE20D04EA4C9847B08392C151 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFBri03MmC0w56zj54RAmVIAKC2a4D6ZgPRH9ajGXVs6h+KuxbZ3wCeI0Jl quDwo5iH5rQdefxWDMPAasg= =Sne+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enigE20D04EA4C9847B08392C151-- --===============0811569422== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 --===============0811569422==-- From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 1 22:47:27 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA11518 for ; Wed, 1 Dec 2004 22:47:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CZi1i-0005hY-L5 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 01 Dec 2004 22:53:07 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CZhfr-0007Of-PG; Wed, 01 Dec 2004 22:30:31 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CZhTT-0001Jl-FR for mip6@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 01 Dec 2004 22:17:43 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA06756 for ; Wed, 1 Dec 2004 22:17:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.sfc.wide.ad.jp ([203.178.142.146]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CZhYq-0005Co-JO for mip6@ietf.org; Wed, 01 Dec 2004 22:23:17 -0500 Received: from iseran.local (jules.nautilus6.org [203.178.138.2]) by mail.sfc.wide.ad.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1056F4C0E3 for ; Thu, 2 Dec 2004 12:16:55 +0900 (JST) Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 12:19:58 +0900 From: Thierry Ernst To: mip6@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Mip6] FW: MIP6 agenda (Final) Message-Id: <20041202121958.4bac3900.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> In-Reply-To: <41AE2D31.7090809@motorola.com> References: <039001c4d661$2b2fef30$596015ac@dcml.docomolabsusa.com> <20041130110332.0971bdae.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <03ed01c4d6f9$c7a7f310$596015ac@dcml.docomolabsusa.com> <20041201161031.09a4d372.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <41AE2D31.7090809@motorola.com> Organization: Keio University X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.7 (GTK+ 1.2.10; powerpc-apple-darwin7.4.0) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0bc60ec82efc80c84b8d02f4b0e4de22 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip6-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: b19722fc8d3865b147c75ae2495625f2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What's the point Alex ? To deploy MIP6, we need this multiple interface support and this is a task bound to the IETF. I don't speak about deployment, but about protocols that are missing for a wild deployment. Thierry. On Wed, 01 Dec 2004 21:44:33 +0100 Alexandru Petrescu wrote: > Thierry Ernst wrote: > > OK, I'm eager to see MIP6 deployed > > Thierry, many people are eager to see this. However, it's not at the > IETF that this can happen, IETF does not deploy, nor does any other SDO. > > Moreover, when a wish-to-be-deployed protocol actually gets deployed, it > comes as a big surprise to that protocol supporters themselves, provided > there was a need for it (when there isn't - it never happens). Then, > some no longer see it as an interesting research topic, some others go > support the deployments. It works the other way around too: as long as > some protocol is seen as a "hot" research topic it does not get > deployed, the "hotter" it is the later shows it up in the real world. > > Alex > _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Thu Dec 2 00:05:44 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA17310 for ; Thu, 2 Dec 2004 00:05:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CZjFU-0007I0-Ah for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 02 Dec 2004 00:11:24 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CZihg-0007Ez-84; Wed, 01 Dec 2004 23:36:28 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CZhn1-0002ra-Nf for mip6@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 01 Dec 2004 22:37:55 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA10926 for ; Wed, 1 Dec 2004 22:37:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from nlsde.buaa.edu.cn ([202.112.142.51] helo=ibm1.nlsde.buaa.edu.cn) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CZhsO-0005XB-AJ for mip6@ietf.org; Wed, 01 Dec 2004 22:43:31 -0500 Received: from dawei ([192.168.1.155]) by ibm1.nlsde.buaa.edu.cn (8.12.8/8.12.8) with SMTP id iB1IqlKq012942 for ; Thu, 2 Dec 2004 02:52:48 +0800 Message-Id: <200412011852.iB1IqlKq012942@ibm1.nlsde.buaa.edu.cn> Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 11:37:36 +0800 From: "=?gb2312?B?1cW0886w?=" To: "mip6" X-mailer: Foxmail 5.0 [cn] Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: 1.1 (+) X-Scan-Signature: ea36de7a5e28e9b4461c8d685f4e97f1 Subject: [Mip6] (no subject) X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , 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2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA17312 for ; Thu, 2 Dec 2004 00:05:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CZjFU-0007I1-Dt for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 02 Dec 2004 00:11:25 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CZihh-0007FR-Qd; Wed, 01 Dec 2004 23:36:29 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CZhn1-0002rg-Nf for mip6@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 01 Dec 2004 22:37:57 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA10929 for ; Wed, 1 Dec 2004 22:37:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from nlsde.buaa.edu.cn ([202.112.142.51] helo=ibm1.nlsde.buaa.edu.cn) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CZhsR-0005XD-JF 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([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CZleX-0004Wy-QL; Thu, 02 Dec 2004 02:45:25 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CZl9P-00071Q-5G for mip6@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 02 Dec 2004 02:13:15 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA11548 for ; Thu, 2 Dec 2004 02:13:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from nlsde.buaa.edu.cn ([202.112.142.51] helo=ibm1.nlsde.buaa.edu.cn) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CZlEq-0001xw-JE for mip6@ietf.org; Thu, 02 Dec 2004 02:18:54 -0500 Received: from dawei ([192.168.1.155]) by ibm1.nlsde.buaa.edu.cn (8.12.8/8.12.8) with SMTP id iB1MRqKq016325 for ; Thu, 2 Dec 2004 06:27:52 +0800 Message-Id: <200412012227.iB1MRqKq016325@ibm1.nlsde.buaa.edu.cn> Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 15:12:44 +0800 From: "=?gb2312?B?1cW0886w?=" To: "mip6" X-mailer: Foxmail 5.0 [cn] 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mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 02 Dec 2004 06:14:56 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CZofp-00009p-4V; Thu, 02 Dec 2004 05:58:57 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CZmoi-0002Um-BD for mip6@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 02 Dec 2004 04:00:00 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA21300 for ; Thu, 2 Dec 2004 03:59:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from motgate2.mot.com ([144.189.100.101]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CZmuC-0004KS-0g for mip6@ietf.org; Thu, 02 Dec 2004 04:05:41 -0500 Received: from az33exr02.mot.com (az33exr02.mot.com [10.64.251.232]) by motgate2.mot.com (8.12.11/Motgate2) with ESMTP id iB29418K029952; Thu, 2 Dec 2004 02:04:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from zfr01srv02.crm.mot.com (zfr01srv02.crm.mot.com [10.161.201.8]) by az33exr02.mot.com (Motorola/az33exr02) with ESMTP id iB28v8gn005243; Thu, 2 Dec 2004 02:57:09 -0600 Received: from [10.161.201.117] (zfr01-2117.crm.mot.com [10.161.201.117]) by zfr01srv02.crm.mot.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4E7C88CF7B; Thu, 2 Dec 2004 09:59:50 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <41AED97E.3000309@motorola.com> Date: Thu, 02 Dec 2004 09:59:42 +0100 From: Alexandru Petrescu User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040803 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Thierry Ernst Subject: Re: [Mip6] FW: MIP6 agenda (Final) References: <039001c4d661$2b2fef30$596015ac@dcml.docomolabsusa.com> <20041130110332.0971bdae.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <03ed01c4d6f9$c7a7f310$596015ac@dcml.docomolabsusa.com> <20041201161031.09a4d372.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <41AE2D31.7090809@motorola.com> <20041202121958.4bac3900.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> In-Reply-To: <20041202121958.4bac3900.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.89.0.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9466e0365fc95844abaf7c3f15a05c7d Cc: mip6@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1625445390==" Sender: mip6-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0ddefe323dd869ab027dbfff7eff0465 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --===============1625445390== Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enig87311EC7ECCA3CF50BBCBFA3" This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enig87311EC7ECCA3CF50BBCBFA3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thierry Ernst wrote: > What's the point Alex ? To deploy MIP6, we need this multiple > interface support Thierry, do you agree that a MIP6 host works ok today with multiple interfaces ok and with no protocol modifications? Alex --------------enig87311EC7ECCA3CF50BBCBFA3 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFBrtmFMmC0w56zj54RAny4AJwNouKZz/gsZ+6AZUEJEjd/Np0PEwCfYfsr lQVHtsatX8EJ+zvNnerOTUo= =NrZv -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enig87311EC7ECCA3CF50BBCBFA3-- --===============1625445390== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 --===============1625445390==-- From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Thu Dec 2 12:49:01 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA14886 for ; Thu, 2 Dec 2004 12:49:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CZvAF-0002uz-V1 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 02 Dec 2004 12:54:49 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CZtrB-00058B-0w; Thu, 02 Dec 2004 11:31:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CZhY6-0002vP-0j for mip6@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 01 Dec 2004 22:22:30 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA10163 for ; Wed, 1 Dec 2004 22:22:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from auds951.usa.alcatel.com ([143.209.238.80]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CZhdU-0005Hg-Lu for mip6@ietf.org; Wed, 01 Dec 2004 22:28:06 -0500 Received: from alcatel.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by auds951.usa.alcatel.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iB23Ls2Q018654 for ; Wed, 1 Dec 2004 21:21:54 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <41AE8A52.4FA7F871@alcatel.com> Date: Wed, 01 Dec 2004 21:21:54 -0600 From: Tim Ozugur X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: mip6@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------20711DF73F9F692FEADDE258" X-Spam-Score: 1.1 (+) X-Scan-Signature: d8bde6dc2a7558acbb5a7d76bb589d4b X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 02 Dec 2004 11:30:58 -0500 Subject: [Mip6] CFP: International Workshop on Broadband Wireless Access Network on fixed network (BWAN 2005) X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip6-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 1.1 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 36eac3d428d57b42765c16b5f74768fb This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------20711DF73F9F692FEADDE258 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by auds951.usa.alcatel.com id iB23Ls2Q018654 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable (Apologies if you are receiving this message more than once) ------------------------------------------------------------------ CALL FOR PAPERS International Workshop on=20 Broadband Wireless Access Network on fixed network (BWAN 2005) (http://www.bwan.org/) ORLANDO, FL - JUNE 12, 2005 co-located with International Conference on Multimedia Services=20 Access Networks (MSAN '05: http://www.msan.org) CO_SPONSORED BY IEEE ****** Submission Deadline: February 4, 2005 ****** ------------------------------------------------------------------- Scope: Workshop: Broadband Wireless Access based on fixed Network (xDSL, FTTx, etc ).=20 This Workshop will deal about complementary wireless broadband access network based on wired network (xDSL, FTTx, etc), 3G/4G and also about different techniques that can solved the tremendous challenges making the sharing of each phone line accessible through wireless access with a minimum guarantee of service for any connected user. In this workshop, the challenges to develop a new low cost mobile or semi-mobile access network with low powering unit will be explored and that may complement UMTS.=20 The workshop is intended to present new architectures of fixed network supporting mobility and/or nomadic features for wireless access (802.11, WiMax,=85802.20=85.), the sharing of the network access, bandwidth sharin= g on radio access. (Single Hop, mesh,=85) and discuss about the perspective= s of shared access network enhanced with wireless extension based on technologies such as WiFi,.. 802.16,.. 802.20, etc to maximize the performance of the overall link and reduce the costs. Within the framework of BWAN 2005, a new research field to prepare the next generation of network access.=20 Topics of interest to this workshop include (but are not limited to) performance studies and solutions (algorithms, protocols, architectures) that tend to improve experience of users of services and applications based on Internet.=20 Workshop Topics: - New Architectures and technologies for broadband wireless access on fixed network(xDSL/FTTx,etc) with mobility features=20 - AAA (Authentification, Authorization, Accounting)=20 - Micro and macro mobility=20 - Medium access control (QoS, bandwidth sharing, fairness)=20 - End to end security and privacy issues on Mobile and/or nomadic Access Network=20 - Low cost and low power integrated xDSL/FTTx+WiFi modem with mobility enhancement=20 - Network cost performance and Business Models SLA-based services=20 - Radio extension such as 802.xy (WiFi, WiMax, etc) Relating Topics:=20 - Modulation, coding and antennas (MIMO)=20 - Interference mitigation for multiple access=20 - Complementary solutions to UMTS=20 - Location-Based Services Applications=20 - Scalability issues to large number of sites=20 - Standard and regulations=20 - IPv6 impact=20 - Mesh extensions =20 Publication:=20 The submissions to be presented at the workshop will be selected,=20 based on their originality, technical merit and topical relevance=20 of their contents. All accepted papers will be published in the=20 conference proceedings that will be available at the workshop.=20 Important Dates: - Submission Deadline: February 4, 2005=20 - Notification of acceptance: March 31, 2005=20 - Camera ready due: April 30, 2005=20 - Workshop date: June 12, 2005=20 Submission Guidelines: We encourage full papers that present well-developed research results (up to 4 pages double column, including figures and references), but also short papers that are more speculative in nature, works in progress and position papers are solicited.=20 Submitted papers must be unpublished and must not be currently under review for any other publication. If you are unsure whether your work falls within the scope of the conference, please contact the Program Co-Chairs.=20 All paper submissions will be carefully reviewed by experts. The authors of accepted papers must guarantee that their paper will be presented at the workshop. At least one author of each accepted paper must be registered for the workshop in order for that paper to appear in the proceedings and to be scheduled for presentation.=20 All submissions should be sent electronically in Postscript or Adobe PDF format. Detailed instructions about submissions are available at the submission page. The electronic submission is available at EDAS.=20 ________________________________________ Proposal for Demo: Proposals for demos are solicited. Demo proposals should consist of:=20 1. title and description of the demo,=20 2. infrastructure requirements,=20 3. biographical sketch of the presenter(s).=20 Please submit your proposals to bwan2005@create-net.it by January 20, 2005=20 Panel Proposals: Panel Proposals should consist of :=20 1. title and description of the panel (200-250 words),=20 2. proposed panelists and their Affiliation (Panel speakers should represent different organisations and from different regions)=20 3. biographical sketch of the organizer(s) or/and chair If you are interested in participating in a session as panelist please submit the following information=20 4. name and affiliation=20 5. presentation and Title=20 6. presentation summary : 100 Words=20 7. biographical sketch Please submit your proposals to bwan2005@create-net.it by November 30, 2005 --------------20711DF73F9F692FEADDE258 Content-Type: application/pdf; name="CFP_BWAN_2005.pdf" Content-Disposition: inline; filename="CFP_BWAN_2005.pdf" 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helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CZtrB-00058G-RG; Thu, 02 Dec 2004 11:31:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CZojr-0005Qm-H8 for mip6@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 02 Dec 2004 06:03:10 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA28920 for ; Thu, 2 Dec 2004 06:03:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from wproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.184.192]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CZopM-0006dW-W3 for mip6@ietf.org; Thu, 02 Dec 2004 06:08:49 -0500 Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 70so79678wra for ; Thu, 02 Dec 2004 03:02:30 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=PV1ybbfrBw+bJiBjX0H+rIubJtrg997YujasfzcHz3FM+Cpx3GnohAQieqhO/Vu5vCOsgPB5jeWeOK9UMpi2B69Va5NZlhECaCWvfJVAgaH6NNVsLqC3aPOvK505/74Ff5Szgrk5asqSf6Uc8dKzhjcF5A/GqkctgVr/XNPpTqM= Received: by 10.54.31.77 with SMTP id e77mr1216089wre; Thu, 02 Dec 2004 03:02:30 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.54.10.75 with HTTP; Thu, 2 Dec 2004 03:02:30 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <88b9e992041202030222a47c64@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 03:02:30 -0800 From: B Krishnamachari To: podc@acm.org, mip4@ietf.org, manet@ietf.org, mip6@ietf.org, itc@ieee.org, tcgn@ieee.org, commsoft@ieee.org, performance@haven.epm.ornl.gov.cnri.reston.va.us, tel-bcn@mat.upc.es, tel-vil@mat.upc.es, disc-delegates@disc2000.org, alg@comm.toronto.edu, cabernet-events@ncl.ac.uk, cost237-transport@comp.lancs.ac.uk, ctc-members@redbank.tinac.com, end2end-interest@isi.edu, announce@tcos.org, testnet@canarie.ca, eapls-request@mailbase.ac.uk, dbworld@cs.wisc.edu, xtp-relay@cs.concordia.ca, siksleden@cs.uu.nl, int-serv@isi.edu, comm-theory@ieee.org, comsoc.bog@tab.ieee.org, comsoc.tac@tab.ieee.org, comsoc-chapters@ieee.org, comsoc-gicb@ieee.org, comsys@brunet.bn, comswtc@ieee.org, sigcomm-members@acm.org, noe-one@prezzemolo.polito.it, sigmob@acm.org, mobicom@acm.org, news-announce-conferences@uunet.uu.net, stds-802-wpan@ieee.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 3fbd9b434023f8abfcb1532abaec7a21 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 02 Dec 2004 11:30:58 -0500 Subject: [Mip6] CFP: BroadNets 2005 Broadband Applications and Services Symposium X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: B Krishnamachari List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip6-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 20f22c03b5c66958bff5ef54fcda6e48 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ----------------------------------------------------------------------- CALL FOR PAPERS Second Annual International Conference on Broadband Networks=20 (BroadNets 2005) Broadband Applications and Services Symposium =20 October 3 - 7, 2005 Boston, Massachusetts, USA http://www.broadnets.org/2005 Submission Deadline: February 1, 2005 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- SCOPE ----- BroadNets 2005 is an international conference focusing on broadband networking and covers the entire gamut of next generation networks with high bandwidth available for both wireless and wireline networks. =20 The conference will consist of the following three symposia: ** Broadband Wireless Networking Symposium: It covers mobility, routing for multihop, multimedia QoS and traffic management, cross-layer optimization, MAC and emerging physical layer technologies (UWB, MIMO) for high-speed wireless networking. ** Broadband Optical Networking Symposium: It covers WDM technologies, Ethernet and MPLS integration into the optical layer, Next-Generation SONET/SDH, as well as SAN extensions over DWDM/SONET/SDH. ** Broadband Applications/Services Symposium: It covers middleware and service architectures for broadband applications, pervasive computing and ubiquitous communications, and universal broadband access for information services. BroadNets 2005 will thus offer a unique forum for researchers from academia, government and industry to share ideas and disseminate new results in these important areas. =20 This Call for Papers describes the details for the Broadband=20 Applications/Services Symposium ONLY. (Refer to the www.broadnets.org/2005= =20 website for the details of Broadband Optical Networking Symposium and=20 Broadband Wireless Networking Symposium.) This Symposium invites=20 academic and industry researchers to present issues and opportunities=20 for tomorrow?s IT infrastructure as driven by broadband applications and=20 services. We invite the research community to present the most recent=20 advances in this field, to discuss exciting research topics and development= =20 of testbeds and applications, and to share their research and development= =20 experiences. We hope to organize one or more panel sessions of industry leaders to offer them an opportunity to outline their vision for= =20 future broadband networks, as well as to offer academic and national=20 laboratory researchers an opportunity to ask questions/provide feedback=20 to these industry leaders. Our goal is to raise the awareness of new=20 industry developments in the academic community, and, at the same time,=20 to establish a sound link between applied and theoretical research.=20 Topics of interest for which we are soliciting full-length papers include, but are not limited to, the following: =B7=09Applications for security and privacy =B7=09Applications and services for grid networks =B7=09Grid middleware=20 =B7=09Collaborative remote visualization and virtual reality =B7=09Data mining and high-speed file transfer applications =B7=09Collaborative computational steering =B7=09Multimedia applications for wireless networks =B7=09Multimedia applications for optical networks =B7=09Video-conferencing and video-telephony =B7=09Video-on-demand, TV-on-demand =B7=09Ultra Wideband (UWB) applications =B7=09Applications in 3G/4G networks =B7=09Applications and services in integrated 3GPP-WLAN networks =B7=09Applications for wireless indoor & home networks =B7=09Applications in large-scale sensor networks =B7=09P2P applications =B7=09Applications for overlay networks =B7=09Multicast applications =B7=09Broadband access applications=20 =B7=09Pricing models for new services =B7=09Standards, licensing and regulation =B7=09Economics and business cases =B7=09Applications for e-government, e-health and e-science =B7=09Storage applications IMPORTANT DATES --------------- Submission Deadline: February 1, 2005=20 Acceptance Notification: May 1, 2005 Final Manuscript Due: June 1, 2005=20 PAPER SUBMISSION INSTRUCTIONS ----------------------------- Authors are invited to submit full papers of up to 10 pages in IEEE conference proceedings format. Papers should be submitted in PDF=20 format to the respective symposium through the EDAS system at=20 http://edas.info/Conference.cgi. =20 CONFERENCE ORGANIZING COMMITTEE ------------------------------- General Chair: =20 Dr. Arun Somani, Iowa State University, arun@iastate.edu General Vice Chair:=20 Dr. Thomas Hou, Virginia Tech, thou@vt.edu Technical Program Chairs - Services and Applications Symposium Dr. Malathi Veeraraghavan, Univ. of Virginia, mv@cs.virginia.edu =20 Dr. Admela Jukan, NSF, ajukan@nsf.gov=20 Technical Program Chair- Wireless Networking Symposium: Dr. Sherman Shen, Univ. of Waterloo, xshen@bbcr.uwaterloo.ca Technical Program Chairs - Optical Networking Symposium Dr. David Griffith, NIST, david.griffith@nist.gov=20 Dr. Srini Ramasubramanian, Univ. of Arizona, srini@ece.arizona.edu=20 Workshops Chair:=20 Dr. Wendi Heinzelman, University of Rochester, wheinzel@ece.rochester.edu Dr. Byrav Ramamurthy, University of Nebraska-Lincoln, byrav@cse.unl.edu Dr. Behcet Sarikaya, University of Northern British Columbia,=20 sarikaya@unbc.ca Tutorials Chair: Dr. Steven Low, Cal. Tech., slow@caltech.edu Panels Chairs: Dr. Surendar Chandra, Univ. of Notre Dame, surendar@cse.nd.edu=20 Dr. Rudra Dutta, NCSU, dutta@csc.ncsu.edu Publicity Chairs: Dr. Bhaskar Krishnamachari, USC, bkrishna@usc.edu=20 Dr. Takeo Hamada, Fujitsu Labs of America, thamada@fla.fujitsu.com=20 Website/Information Systems Chair:=20 Dr. Shiwen Mao, Virginia Tech, smao@vt.edu =20 Publications Chairs:=20 Dr. Ahmed Kamal, Iowa State University, kamal@iastate.edu=20 Dr. Hui Zang, Sprint Adv. Tech. Labs, hzang@sprintlabs.com Exhibits and Sponsorships Chair:=20 Dr. Sai Shankar N, Philips Research USA, sai.shankar@philips.com Steering Committee Co-Chairs: Dr. Imrich Chlamtac, UT Dallas, chlamtac@utdallas.edu=20 Dr. Krishna Sivalingam, Univ. of Maryland, Baltimore County, krishna@umbc.edu =20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Fri Dec 3 19:14:37 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA22704 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 2004 19:14:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CaNfG-0001UB-16 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 03 Dec 2004 19:20:42 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CaNUV-0006rN-M6; Fri, 03 Dec 2004 19:09:35 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CaNM1-000419-7q for mip6@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 03 Dec 2004 19:00:49 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA21709 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 2004 19:00:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from key1.docomolabs-usa.com ([216.98.102.225] helo=fridge.docomolabs-usa.com ident=fwuser) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CaNRn-0001FI-Nq for mip6@ietf.org; Fri, 03 Dec 2004 19:06:51 -0500 Message-ID: <019901c4d994$6e6868a0$0f6115ac@dcml.docomolabsusa.com> From: "James Kempf" To: Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 16:01:34 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: cf4fa59384e76e63313391b70cd0dd25 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Mip6] New Draft with Bootstrapping Protocol X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip6-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7d33c50f3756db14428398e2bdedd581 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi folks, Samita, Erik Nordmark, and I have written a new draft with a solution for the MIPv6 bootstrapping problem. Until it shows up in the Internet Drafts registry, you can find it here: http://www.geocities.com/kempf42/draft-chakrabarti-mip6-bmip-00.txt The draft is meant to be an alternative to an AAA/EAP based solution for those networks where AAA is either not deployed or where the network service provider is not integrated, i.e. there is a separate network service provider and mobility service provider. jak _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Sat Dec 4 19:52:38 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA05794 for ; Sat, 4 Dec 2004 19:52:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Cakjp-0004K0-3v for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 04 Dec 2004 19:58:57 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CakAu-00009I-II; Sat, 04 Dec 2004 19:22:52 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Cajcr-0006Ni-Cz for mip6@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 04 Dec 2004 18:47:42 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA02776 for ; Sat, 4 Dec 2004 18:47:37 -0500 (EST) From: Basavaraj.Patil@nokia.com Received: from mgw-x2.nokia.com ([131.228.20.22]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Cajit-00039P-33 for mip6@ietf.org; Sat, 04 Dec 2004 18:53:56 -0500 Received: from esdks003.ntc.nokia.com (esdks003.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.138.158]) by mgw-x2.nokia.com (Switch-2.2.8/Switch-2.2.8) with ESMTP id iB4NlbF03770 for ; Sun, 5 Dec 2004 01:47:38 +0200 (EET) X-Scanned: Sun, 5 Dec 2004 01:47:26 +0200 Nokia Message Protector V1.3.31 2004060815 - RELEASE Received: (from root@localhost) by esdks003.ntc.nokia.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) id iB4NlQ2g019168 for ; Sun, 5 Dec 2004 01:47:26 +0200 Received: from mgw-int2.ntc.nokia.com (172.21.143.97) by esdks003.ntc.nokia.com 00EevQ0b; Sun, 05 Dec 2004 01:46:54 EET Received: from daebh001.NOE.Nokia.com (daebh001.americas.nokia.com [10.241.35.121]) by mgw-int2.ntc.nokia.com (Switch-2.2.8/Switch-2.2.8) with ESMTP id iB4NkiS18918 for ; Sun, 5 Dec 2004 01:46:44 +0200 (EET) Received: from daebe007.NOE.Nokia.com ([10.241.35.107]) by daebh001.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6881); Sat, 4 Dec 2004 17:46:43 -0600 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2004 17:46:43 -0600 Message-ID: <697DAA22C5004B4596E033803A7CEF4403B1C270@daebe007.americas.nokia.com> Thread-Topic: IETF61 WG meeting minutes (Draft) Thread-Index: AcTaW4EZ0FHcrA4DQ9uDgaMD1SJNMA== To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Dec 2004 23:46:43.0667 (UTC) FILETIME=[82547A30:01C4DA5B] X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 1e47b908cbd1247f22e7953a41f1c4c6 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [Mip6] IETF61 WG meeting minutes (Draft) X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip6-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 64b72a8e61417554b4b727cb14e7034d Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Minutes of MIP6 WG meeting -------------------------- IETF61, Washington DC Nov 12th, Friday 2004 9 AM - 1130 AM Chairs: Basavaraj Patil and Gopal Dometty Minutes provided by: Samita Chakrabarti and John Loughney=20 1. Agenda bashing and WG doc status update ------------------------------------------- - MIPv6 Socket API - completed last call - now on AD review - Firewall issues I-D completed LC - MIP6 MIB status: MIBdoctor pass1 completed; pass2 ongoing - TAHI test suite will release version 3.0 in December which is fully compliant with RFC3775/3776 URL: http://www.tahi.org/mipv6/ 2. Auth I-D discussion ---------------------- A consensus call on standardizing this I-D was held on the WG ML. Chairs believe consensus was to progress the I-D as a proposed standard. An issue tracker for the I-D has been created. Comments are welcome. Thomas Narten: There is an appeal to the Consensus call result now.=20 Consensus was rough, nice if it was clearer. We don't formally vote. Packing the room is something to look for, but lurkers can be informed / posters can be uninformed.=20 Counting company votes is dangerous. =20 Question / choices: 1. Do not publish at all - has consequences for the relevance of the = IETF 2. Publish on standards track - sends signal that this has IETF support 3. Publish as info - Does get IETF review & has been done in other cases, e.g. - 3GPP=20 James K - has interoperability concerns, but if just for 3GPP2, then its OK. 3GPP2 has come to the IETF, so we should do it. Concerned about standards track, because it might cause interoperability issues due to multiple mechanisms. Would like MIP community to work better with 3GPP2.=20 Thomas Narten - we've had a relationship for 3 years with 3GPP and have engineer to engineer working, agrees that would be nice to have with 3GPP2.=20 Basavaraj - disagrees that there will be interop problems. People who want to deploy it are from 3gpp2, but could have wider possibly applicability. Haven't heard about what the concerns of folks who don't want this work to be standardized.=20 Pervez Yegani - 3GPP2 needs this work, working with Thomas on liason statement. Doesn't see an interop issue.=20 James K - Explained twice already. IETF can specify two mechanisms, but operator can deploy just one. If you have a terminal that supports both mechanisms, it may be confused which one can be used. Problem is a deployment.=20 Hesham - it's not an interop problem but a deployment problem. In similar circumstantes, sometimes a higher order mechanism is needed for negotiation. Wants third option.=20 =20 Gopal - Disagrees with James. We cannot control deployments. This is not 3GPP specific.=20 Thomas - should be careful about calling it an interop problem. Its not black or white. It might be that 3GPP2 wants to avoid the IPsec mechanism. There can be a cost with multiple mechanisms.=20 Eric Nordmark - unwise to have multiple mechanisms; we will have to implement both or circumstances will not work. Thinks that some assumptions are wrong. If we have multiple mechanisms, then we should have a good reason for this.=20 Basavaraj - saying that the HA will need to implement both, terminal will only need one.=20 Jari Arkko - it doesn't have to be a weaker option. interop issue - distintion is that 2 random nodes will authenticate to each other.=20 Pete McCann - this mechanism is needed to interface with existing credentials, removed IPsec from current architecture because IPsec / IKE v1 cannot interface with existing credentials=20 James - thinks we should go back to 3GPP2 and get them to find out about what is needed for IKEv2=20 Someone - wonder if this could be handled in IPv6 host or MIPv6 host. Pervez - only argument we have heard against this is interoperability. Don't we have rough consensus.=20 Thomas - we don't vote, some people are debating the validity of the consensus.=20 Pervez - from the business perspective, saying it won't interoperate isn't convincing.=20 Basavaraj - doesn't see the benefit of publishing this as info. Greg Daley - tried to stay out of this discussion. Thinks we need encryption between the HA & MN, but how to get the key? Thinks we should work on this, doesn't care about the status of the document, but would like do work on this. We need an AS on this mechanism. Concerned that the Security Area will barf on this.=20 Thomas - 3GPP2 needs this soon, so we need to complete this. Greg - then we need to get people involved in it. Concerned about there is no ESP here. Need a checklist for this. Need strong applicability statement on the features - multicast traffic might be spoofed, etc.=20 Gopal - if we do go info, we will have deployment, then future work can be dependent on it. =20 Thomas - thinks this will be an ongoing topic for discussion. Pascal - thinks there is an impact on other MIP related topics. We will have 2 solutions on the handset.=20 Thomas=20 How many people don't want it at all - noone Do this as a standards track - 9 Publish as informational - 30 Greg Daily- Release this as an experimental doc, but work on it still. Thomas Narten- reasonable to pub as info, but work on it still Hesham - can't have a contract promising anything, shouldn't be a problem releasing it as info. =20 Thomas Narten - 3GPP2 would prefer standards track. Pekka Savola - we cannot make a contract, publish as info/exp. because of timing requirements, and then analyze the problem more.=20 3. IKEv2 on MIP6 (Vijay Devarapalli) ------------------------------------- I-D: draft-ietf-mip6-ikev2-ipsec-00.txt RFC3776 describes IPsec on MIP6 Changes in IPsec architecture (2401bis), and IKEv2=20 - New draft to incorporate these changes - SPD and SAD config and packet formats - required processing steps on the MN and HA - describes the use of IKEv2 Key negotiation - Manual keying must be supported Dynamic keying though should be supported Dynamic key shoud or may? Comment - do you mean public key certificate? - we have manual key for pre-shared key Jari Arkko: The draft talks about how to use IKEv2 but this is optional- = no need to support it. In that case there is no issue. SPD config New selectors Mobility header msg type ICMPv6 message type If IPsec specifieds mobility header as a selector, then MIP6 should support it.=20 Question: How do you make interfaces of IKEv1 and IKEv2 work together in IPsec?=20 Vijay - The new IPsec will not be interoperable with the older one Hesham Soliman - Are we going to step away from per-interface SPDs Moving away from current interfaces is a good move. Vijay - We still need to distinguish payloads in different cases, tunnel, without tunnel etc. PAD configuration Peer auth data base provides a link bet key protocol and SPD SAD config Use of IKEv2 to negotiate keys MN initiates IKEv2 exchange Identity is included in IKE_AUTH Use of EAP - MN indicates it wants to use EAP by leaving IKE_AUTH field unfilled IKE_AUTH should be done after EAP exchange Issues - takes 4 round trips instead of 2 - Should work with other EAP and AAA-HA interface - Should we say HA MUST/MAY require this interface? Home address configuration: Must or May ? Jim Kempf - It should be "SHOULD" Erik N. - It looks like a bootstrapping solution. It should be linked with bootstrap to have a single solution Jari Arkko - thinks bootstrapping support here is a good thing. 4. Using IPsec to protect signaling between MN and CN (Francis Dupont) =20 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I-D: draft-dupont-mipv6-cn-ipsec-01.txt Presented at the last IETF Idea : When you have IPsec bet, CN and MN, just use it Has some details in the doc what is suitable. You need SA between CN and MN etc. Question: - Should it be WG item ? - Seperate doc for the cookie-based COA test? (optional) - Implementations(already one, others?) Vijay - Will support it to become WG doc Jim Kempf - We should think about how it interacts with Mobike. We should make this as wg draft. Suresh - It should be a wg document B Patil - Anyone has objection to make it wg doc ? If not we make it as wg doc No objection was raised at the meeting. 4a: (Francis Dupont) ------------------- COA cookie test - Initiated by CN , usable by CN which does not have built-in COA test/trust=20 - A state cookie is used in order to avoid DOS attacks - non-empty IANA consideration section Next step: Which RO protection mechanism do we need? Vijay - it can be an optional care-of-addr test WG item? More discussion needed before we make a wg doc. Christian V: We had mailing list discussion but it modifies the way base spec does. Jim Kempf - We should be more systematic in thinking about one solution = or piecemeal soln Erik - Don't see how we tie in with RO cookie test. If the threat is third party bombing attack, then how does it = help? What are the security requirements? Jari - I'd rather have Charlie's draft do COA addr test. Also take a = look at the draft we produced in Mobopts 5. AAA AND MOBILE IPV6 (Giaretta Gerardo) ----------------------------------------- 5.1 I-D: draft-giaretta-mip6-aaa-ha-goals-00.txt &=20 I-D: draft-yegin-mip6-aaa-fwk-00.txt =20 Motivation: Dynamic MIP6 conf MN-HA sec association AAA-HA interface - Interface between AAA of the MSP and HA (HA is a kind of access = server) Basic security model MN --------------------MSP AAA -----------------------HA Usage scenario - bootstrapping directly with HA MN -----NAS------AAA-MSP-----HA Comment(Jee?)- Given EAP exchange is there any network access server? We first need to have access through NAS then the second step Ans:It is a direct interaction with HA Pete M : We can separate out network access from MIP access. We should = not tie them together. Usage scenario 2 MN --- NAS--------AAA-MSP -------------HA <-------piggybacked MIp6 within EAP -> <---AAA-HA ------> A) <-- PANA, L2 DHCP extension->< RADIS/DIA-><---AAA-HA--> B) Hesham - Make it generic Comment - Focus should not only focus AAA-HA protocol, but also NAS-MSP-AAA Greg D - Did not read the draft. If you have security across NAS, AAA-MSP, HA- Do you already have security association between MSP and HA? Hesham - This is a good way to use IPsec in MIP6 James - This solution is not going to work if you don't have AAA infrastructure=20 Usage scenario3 MN---------NAS_____________AAA-MSP -------HA <---AAA-HA---> <--BU?-------> Goals: Security, Accounting etc. Next steps Should we identify a protocol that fulfil the goals? DIAMETER, RADIUS, SNMPv3 Similar draft by Alper on AAA-HA interfaces - Raj has sent out the pointer to the slides. In the interest of time, the draft was not presented. Raj described briefly the highlights of Alpers I-D. Hesham : What is the requirement? - Should the requirements go to AAA, = midco m ? No reason to put requirement for midcom wg James Kempf - likes this, would like to remind people that there are hotspots without link security and authenticates via web page. This solution won't work if you don't have a AAA infra.=20 Should we work on this? Hesham Soliman - what is the intention of this? Basavaraj Patil - development requirements for AAA work. 5.2 MIPV6 AUTHORIZATION AND CONFIGURATION BASED ON EAP =20 ------------------------------------------------------ I-D: draft-giaretta-mip6-authorization-eap-02.txt Giaretta Gerardo someone - how to define aaa server between ha & aaa server? Pasi Eronen - lots of info that would like to provision to user. EAP isn't the right approach.=20 Jari Arkko - agrees with Pasi. There are procedural issues as well as technical. This approach might not require AP changes, but changes to EAP methods. If you can re-use existing protocols, this is easier. If you want to use EAP for new purposes, this is harder.=20 James Kempf - would prefer to be minimalistic here. Hesham Soliman - agree we need to draw a limit, but there are 3 levels of auth typically. There is interest in leveraging AAA infra for this. Doesn't think this will change EAP much.=20 Next step - Waiting for EAP wg feedback - WG doc? MN-HA Ipsec SA can be estblished from a shared secret using IKE with PSK = auth EAP method can be used to exchange PSK Jari A- There are some other requirements in EAP methods. 5.3 APPLICATION MASTER SESSION KEY (AMSK) FOR MOBILE IPV6 =20 --------------------------------------------------------- I-D: draft-giaretta-mip6-amsk-00.txt Giaretta Gerardo Jari Arkko - question on changes to EAP framework. As a whole, there are more requirements than just on EAP methods, may be changing EAP API.=20 Hesham Soliman - does EAP SIM produce an AMSK? Jari Arkko - I think so. 6 DIAMETER MOBILE IPV6 BOOTSTRAPPING APPLICATION USING PANA =20 ----------------------------------------------------------- I-D: draft-jee-mip6-bootstrap-pana-00.txt I-D: draft-tschofenig-mip6-bootstrapping-pana-00.txt Junghoon Jee, Hannes Tschofenig PANA is used between MN and HA Used to bootstrap mip6-auth Pac << HA Does wg think PANA is appropriate to deliver bootstrapping info ? New DIAMETER bootstrapping scenario? James K - PANA can work with EAP. Has a problem defining PANA to go beyond 1st hop link. ICMP often doesn't work after 1st hop. Yoshihiro Ohba - PANA is based on UDP James - OK, so I guess that is not a problem. 7. MOBILE IPV6 BOOTSTRAPPING ARCHITECTURE USING DHCP =20 ---------------------------------------------------- I-D: draft-ohba-mip6-boot-arch-dhcp-00 Yoshihiro Ohba Model 1 - DHCP server AAA-MS client Model 2 - NAS as AAA-MS client Draft describes how this arch map to bootstrapping scenario James Kempf - Ralph Droms mentioned that backending DHCP server into AAA server is not a good idea. Same problem about NAS pushing stuff into DHCP server. OK to put Home Address into DHCP server. Concerned about the complications & bittleness of this.=20 8. BOOTSTRAP CONTROL FUNCTION MECHANISM FOR MOBILE IPV6 BOOTSTRAP ----------------------------------------------------------------- I-D: draft-deng-mip6-bootstrap-bcf-00.txt Hui Deng - Introduced new network element (BCF) AAA ------- HA1 | | MN -----BCF -------- ---- HA2 | --------- HA3 Discuss on list with rest of the bootstrapping stuff. Possible design team issue.=20 9. PRECOMPUTABLE BINDING MANAGEMENT KEY KBM FOR MOBILE IPV6 ----------------------------------------------------------- I-D: draft-ietf-mip6-precfgkbm-01.txt Vijay Devarapalli - Proceed with this document. 10. IMPROVEMENT OF RETURN ROUTABILITY PROTOCOL ---------------------------------------------- I-D: draft-qiu-mip6-rr-improvement-00.txt Jianying ZHOU DOS attack, session hijacking, movement halting attack Problem HOTI/COTI - independent of COA and HoA use HOA in COTI and COA in HOTI for authentication and signals Christian V.- Even if you combine the two, the attacker will have ability to attack Yes - but it is much more difficult, as it needs to know both addr Erik - If we do this, we can't keep the same home keygen when COA = changes Jari - What's the point becuase the packets are flying by anyway and has same limitation that Erik mentioned 11. Next steps for WG --------------------- - Bring closure to Auth and Identifier - Taking transition problem as wg doc - DT for bootstrapping - Revise charter based on privacy bar bof _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Mon Dec 6 07:57:44 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA09625 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 2004 07:57:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CbIXK-00048u-UX for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Dec 2004 08:04:19 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CbIE1-0003Vl-67; Mon, 06 Dec 2004 07:44:21 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CbHsq-0005xU-BQ for mip6@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 06 Dec 2004 07:22:28 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA01385 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 2004 07:22:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.sfc.wide.ad.jp ([203.178.142.146]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CbHz8-0001HL-9Q for mip6@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Dec 2004 07:29:02 -0500 Received: from iseran.local (unknown [130.79.48.5]) by mail.sfc.wide.ad.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 845A04D8BC for ; Mon, 6 Dec 2004 21:21:43 +0900 (JST) Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 21:24:48 +0900 From: Thierry Ernst To: mip6@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Mip6] IETF61 WG meeting minutes (Draft) Message-Id: <20041206212448.534165bc.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> In-Reply-To: <697DAA22C5004B4596E033803A7CEF4403B1C270@daebe007.americas.nokia.com> References: <697DAA22C5004B4596E033803A7CEF4403B1C270@daebe007.americas.nokia.com> Organization: Keio University X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.7 (GTK+ 1.2.10; powerpc-apple-darwin7.4.0) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d6c15d82a53e26283536b4a751453103 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip6-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8f3b9db08b8c0fe2301a77f547096e31 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Seems that my slot about multihoming (was after next steps) hasn't been reported. Thierry On Sat, 4 Dec 2004 17:46:43 -0600 Basavaraj.Patil@nokia.com wrote: > > > Minutes of MIP6 WG meeting > -------------------------- > > IETF61, Washington DC > Nov 12th, Friday 2004 > 9 AM - 1130 AM > > Chairs: Basavaraj Patil and Gopal Dometty > > Minutes provided by: Samita Chakrabarti and John Loughney > > > 1. Agenda bashing and WG doc status update > ------------------------------------------- > > - MIPv6 Socket API - completed last call - now on AD review > - Firewall issues I-D completed LC > - MIP6 MIB status: MIBdoctor pass1 completed; pass2 ongoing > > - TAHI test suite will release version 3.0 in December which is fully > compliant with RFC3775/3776 > URL: http://www.tahi.org/mipv6/ > > 2. Auth I-D discussion > ---------------------- > A consensus call on standardizing this I-D was held on the WG > ML. Chairs believe consensus was to progress the I-D as a proposed > standard. An issue tracker for the I-D has been created. Comments > are welcome. > > Thomas Narten: There is an appeal to the Consensus call result now. > Consensus was rough, nice if it was clearer. > We don't formally vote. Packing the room is something to look for, > but lurkers can be informed / posters can be uninformed. > Counting company votes is dangerous. > > Question / choices: > 1. Do not publish at all - has consequences for the relevance of the IETF > 2. Publish on standards track - sends signal that this has IETF support > 3. Publish as info - Does get IETF review & has been done in other > cases, e.g. - 3GPP > > James K - has interoperability concerns, but if just for 3GPP2, then > its OK. 3GPP2 has come to the IETF, so we should do it. Concerned > about standards track, because it might cause interoperability issues > due to multiple mechanisms. Would like MIP community to work better > with 3GPP2. > > Thomas Narten - we've had a relationship for 3 years with 3GPP and > have engineer to engineer working, agrees that would be nice to have > with 3GPP2. > > Basavaraj - disagrees that there will be interop problems. People who > want to deploy it are from 3gpp2, but could have wider possibly > applicability. Haven't heard about what the concerns of folks who > don't want this work to be standardized. > > Pervez Yegani - 3GPP2 needs this work, working with Thomas on liason > statement. Doesn't see an interop issue. > > James K - Explained twice already. IETF can specify two mechanisms, > but operator can deploy just one. If you have a terminal that > supports both mechanisms, it may be confused which one can be used. > Problem is a deployment. > > Hesham - it's not an interop problem but a deployment problem. In > similar circumstantes, sometimes a higher order mechanism is needed > for negotiation. Wants third option. > > Gopal - Disagrees with James. We cannot control deployments. This is > not 3GPP specific. > > Thomas - should be careful about calling it an interop problem. Its > not black or white. It might be that 3GPP2 wants to avoid the IPsec > mechanism. There can be a cost with multiple mechanisms. > > Eric Nordmark - unwise to have multiple mechanisms; we will have to > implement both or circumstances will not work. Thinks that some > assumptions are wrong. If we have multiple mechanisms, then we should > have a good reason for this. > > Basavaraj - saying that the HA will need to implement both, terminal > will only need one. > > Jari Arkko - it doesn't have to be a weaker option. interop issue - > distintion is that 2 random nodes will authenticate to each other. > > Pete McCann - this mechanism is needed to interface with existing > credentials, removed IPsec from current architecture because IPsec / > IKE v1 cannot interface with existing credentials > > James - thinks we should go back to 3GPP2 and get them to find out > about what is needed for IKEv2 > > Someone - wonder if this could be handled in IPv6 host or MIPv6 host. > > Pervez - only argument we have heard against this is interoperability. > Don't we have rough consensus. > > Thomas - we don't vote, some people are debating the validity of the > consensus. > > Pervez - from the business perspective, saying it won't interoperate > isn't convincing. > > Basavaraj - doesn't see the benefit of publishing this as info. > > Greg Daley - tried to stay out of this discussion. Thinks we need > encryption between the HA & MN, but how to get the key? Thinks we > should work on this, doesn't care about the status of the document, > but would like do work on this. We need an AS on this > mechanism. Concerned that the Security Area will barf on this. > > Thomas - 3GPP2 needs this soon, so we need to complete this. > > Greg - then we need to get people involved in it. Concerned about > there is no ESP here. Need a checklist for this. Need strong > applicability statement on the features - multicast traffic might be > spoofed, etc. > > Gopal - if we do go info, we will have deployment, then future work > can be dependent on it. > > Thomas - thinks this will be an ongoing topic for discussion. > > Pascal - thinks there is an impact on other MIP related topics. We > will have 2 solutions on the handset. > > Thomas > How many people don't want it at all - noone > Do this as a standards track - 9 > Publish as informational - 30 > > Greg Daily- Release this as an experimental doc, but work on it still. > > Thomas Narten- reasonable to pub as info, but work on it still > > Hesham - can't have a contract promising anything, shouldn't be a > problem releasing it as info. > > Thomas Narten - 3GPP2 would prefer standards track. > > Pekka Savola - we cannot make a contract, publish as info/exp. because > of timing requirements, and then analyze the problem more. > > > 3. IKEv2 on MIP6 (Vijay Devarapalli) > ------------------------------------- > I-D: draft-ietf-mip6-ikev2-ipsec-00.txt > > RFC3776 describes IPsec on MIP6 > Changes in IPsec architecture (2401bis), and IKEv2 > > - New draft to incorporate these changes > - SPD and SAD config and packet formats > - required processing steps on the MN and HA > - describes the use of IKEv2 > > Key negotiation > - Manual keying must be supported > Dynamic keying though should be supported > > Dynamic key shoud or may? > > Comment - do you mean public key certificate? > - we have manual key for pre-shared key > Jari Arkko: The draft talks about how to use IKEv2 but this is optional- no > need to support it. In that case there is no issue. > > SPD config > New selectors > Mobility header msg type > ICMPv6 message type > > If IPsec specifieds mobility header as a selector, then MIP6 should > support it. > > Question: How do you make interfaces of IKEv1 and IKEv2 work together > in IPsec? > Vijay - The new IPsec will not be interoperable with the older one > Hesham Soliman - Are we going to step away from per-interface SPDs > Moving away from current interfaces is a good move. > Vijay - We still need to distinguish payloads in different cases, > tunnel, without tunnel etc. > > PAD configuration > Peer auth data base provides a link bet key protocol and SPD > > SAD config > Use of IKEv2 to negotiate keys > MN initiates IKEv2 exchange > Identity is included in IKE_AUTH > > Use of EAP > > - MN indicates it wants to use EAP by leaving IKE_AUTH field unfilled > IKE_AUTH should be done after EAP exchange > Issues > - takes 4 round trips instead of 2 > - Should work with other EAP and AAA-HA interface > - Should we say HA MUST/MAY require this interface? > > Home address configuration: > Must or May ? > Jim Kempf - It should be "SHOULD" > Erik N. - It looks like a bootstrapping solution. It should be linked > with bootstrap to have a single solution > Jari Arkko - thinks bootstrapping support here is a good thing. > > 4. Using IPsec to protect signaling between MN and CN (Francis Dupont) > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > I-D: draft-dupont-mipv6-cn-ipsec-01.txt > > Presented at the last IETF > Idea : When you have IPsec bet, CN and MN, just use it Has some > details in the doc what is suitable. You need SA between CN and MN etc. > > Question: > - Should it be WG item ? > > - Seperate doc for the cookie-based COA test? (optional) > > - Implementations(already one, others?) > > Vijay - Will support it to become WG doc > > Jim Kempf - We should think about how it interacts with Mobike. > We should make this as wg draft. > Suresh - It should be a wg document > > B Patil - Anyone has objection to make it wg doc ? If not we make it > as wg doc > No objection was raised at the meeting. > > 4a: (Francis Dupont) > ------------------- > COA cookie test > > - Initiated by CN , usable by CN which does not have built-in COA > test/trust > - A state cookie is used in order to avoid DOS attacks > - non-empty IANA consideration section > > Next step: > > Which RO protection mechanism do we need? > > Vijay - it can be an optional care-of-addr test > > WG item? More discussion needed before we make a wg doc. > > Christian V: We had mailing list discussion but it modifies the way base > spec does. > Jim Kempf - We should be more systematic in thinking about one solution or > piecemeal soln > > Erik - Don't see how we tie in with RO cookie test. > If the threat is third party bombing attack, then how does it help? > What are the security requirements? > > Jari - I'd rather have Charlie's draft do COA addr test. Also take a look at > the draft we produced in Mobopts > > 5. AAA AND MOBILE IPV6 (Giaretta Gerardo) > ----------------------------------------- > 5.1 I-D: draft-giaretta-mip6-aaa-ha-goals-00.txt & > I-D: draft-yegin-mip6-aaa-fwk-00.txt > > > Motivation: > Dynamic MIP6 conf > MN-HA sec association > AAA-HA interface > - Interface between AAA of the MSP and HA (HA is a kind of access server) > > Basic security model > > MN --------------------MSP AAA -----------------------HA > > Usage scenario - bootstrapping directly with HA > > MN -----NAS------AAA-MSP-----HA > > Comment(Jee?)- Given EAP exchange is there any network access server? > We first need to have access through NAS then the second step > Ans:It is a direct interaction with HA > > Pete M : We can separate out network access from MIP access. We should not > tie them together. > > Usage scenario 2 > > MN --- NAS--------AAA-MSP -------------HA > <-------piggybacked > MIp6 within > EAP -> <---AAA-HA ------> A) > > <-- PANA, L2 > DHCP > extension->< RADIS/DIA-><---AAA-HA--> B) > > > Hesham - Make it generic > Comment - Focus should not only focus AAA-HA protocol, but > also NAS-MSP-AAA > Greg D - Did not read the draft. If you have security across > NAS, AAA-MSP, HA- Do you already have security association > between MSP and HA? > > Hesham - This is a good way to use IPsec in MIP6 > > James - This solution is not going to work if you don't have AAA > infrastructure > > Usage scenario3 > MN---------NAS_____________AAA-MSP -------HA > <---AAA-HA---> > <--BU?-------> > > Goals: > Security, Accounting etc. > > Next steps > Should we identify a protocol that fulfil the goals? > DIAMETER, RADIUS, SNMPv3 > > Similar draft by Alper on AAA-HA interfaces - Raj has sent > out the pointer to the slides. In the interest of time, the draft was > not presented. Raj described briefly the highlights of Alpers I-D. > > Hesham : What is the requirement? - Should the requirements go to AAA, midco > m ? > No reason to put requirement for midcom wg > > James Kempf - likes this, would like to remind people that there are > hotspots without link security and authenticates via web page. This > solution won't work if you don't have a AAA infra. > Should we work on this? > > Hesham Soliman - what is the intention of this? > > Basavaraj Patil - development requirements for AAA work. > > 5.2 MIPV6 AUTHORIZATION AND CONFIGURATION BASED ON EAP > ------------------------------------------------------ > I-D: draft-giaretta-mip6-authorization-eap-02.txt Giaretta Gerardo > > someone - how to define aaa server between ha & aaa server? > > Pasi Eronen - lots of info that would like to provision to user. EAP > isn't the right approach. > > Jari Arkko - agrees with Pasi. There are procedural issues as well as > technical. This approach might not require AP changes, but changes to > EAP methods. If you can re-use existing protocols, this is easier. > If you want to use EAP for new purposes, this is harder. > > James Kempf - would prefer to be minimalistic here. > > Hesham Soliman - agree we need to draw a limit, but there are 3 > levels of auth typically. There is interest in leveraging AAA infra > for this. Doesn't think this will change EAP much. > > Next step > - Waiting for EAP wg feedback > - WG doc? > > MN-HA Ipsec SA can be estblished from a shared secret using IKE with PSK auth > EAP method can be used to exchange PSK > > Jari A- There are some other requirements in EAP methods. > > 5.3 APPLICATION MASTER SESSION KEY (AMSK) FOR MOBILE IPV6 > --------------------------------------------------------- > I-D: draft-giaretta-mip6-amsk-00.txt Giaretta Gerardo > > Jari Arkko - question on changes to EAP framework. As a whole, there > are more requirements than just on EAP methods, may be changing EAP > API. > > Hesham Soliman - does EAP SIM produce an AMSK? > > Jari Arkko - I think so. > > 6 DIAMETER MOBILE IPV6 BOOTSTRAPPING APPLICATION USING PANA > ----------------------------------------------------------- > I-D: draft-jee-mip6-bootstrap-pana-00.txt > I-D: draft-tschofenig-mip6-bootstrapping-pana-00.txt > > Junghoon Jee, Hannes Tschofenig > > PANA is used between MN and HA > Used to bootstrap mip6-auth > > Pac << HA > > Does wg think PANA is appropriate to deliver bootstrapping info ? > > New DIAMETER bootstrapping scenario? > > James K - PANA can work with EAP. Has a problem defining PANA to go > beyond 1st hop link. ICMP often doesn't work after 1st hop. > Yoshihiro Ohba - PANA is based on UDP > James - OK, so I guess that is not a problem. > > 7. MOBILE IPV6 BOOTSTRAPPING ARCHITECTURE USING DHCP > ---------------------------------------------------- > I-D: draft-ohba-mip6-boot-arch-dhcp-00 Yoshihiro Ohba > > > Model 1 - DHCP server AAA-MS client > Model 2 - NAS as AAA-MS client > > Draft describes how this arch map to bootstrapping scenario > > James Kempf - Ralph Droms mentioned that backending DHCP server into > AAA server is not a good idea. Same problem about NAS pushing stuff > into DHCP server. OK to put Home Address into DHCP server. Concerned > about the complications & bittleness of this. > > > 8. BOOTSTRAP CONTROL FUNCTION MECHANISM FOR MOBILE IPV6 BOOTSTRAP > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > I-D: draft-deng-mip6-bootstrap-bcf-00.txt Hui Deng > - Introduced new network element (BCF) > > AAA ------- HA1 > | | > MN -----BCF -------- ---- HA2 > | > --------- HA3 > > > > Discuss on list with rest of the bootstrapping stuff. Possible design > team issue. > > 9. PRECOMPUTABLE BINDING MANAGEMENT KEY KBM FOR MOBILE IPV6 > ----------------------------------------------------------- > I-D: draft-ietf-mip6-precfgkbm-01.txt > Vijay Devarapalli > > - Proceed with this document. > > 10. IMPROVEMENT OF RETURN ROUTABILITY PROTOCOL > ---------------------------------------------- > I-D: draft-qiu-mip6-rr-improvement-00.txt > Jianying ZHOU > > DOS attack, session hijacking, movement halting attack > Problem HOTI/COTI - independent of COA and HoA > > use HOA in COTI and COA in HOTI for authentication and signals > > Christian V.- Even if you combine the two, the attacker will have > ability to attack > > Yes - but it is much more difficult, as it needs to know both addr > > Erik - If we do this, we can't keep the same home keygen when COA changes > > Jari - What's the point becuase the packets are flying by anyway and has > same limitation that Erik mentioned > > 11. Next steps for WG > --------------------- > > - Bring closure to Auth and Identifier > - Taking transition problem as wg doc > - DT for bootstrapping > - Revise charter based on privacy bar bof > > _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Mon Dec 6 08:16:01 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA12326 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 2004 08:16:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CbIp2-0004qs-RL for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Dec 2004 08:22:37 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CbIbr-0004K3-Vx; Mon, 06 Dec 2004 08:08:59 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CbIRh-00010u-Pq for mip6@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 06 Dec 2004 07:58:30 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA09733 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 2004 07:58:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from thoth.sbs.de ([192.35.17.2]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CbIY3-0004A3-Vg for mip6@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Dec 2004 08:05:04 -0500 Received: from mail3.siemens.de (mail3.siemens.de [139.25.208.14]) by thoth.sbs.de (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id iB6Cvk8e000574; Mon, 6 Dec 2004 13:57:46 +0100 Received: from mchp9daa.mch.sbs.de (mchp9daa.mch.sbs.de [139.25.137.99]) by mail3.siemens.de (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id iB6CvjlD016209; Mon, 6 Dec 2004 13:57:46 +0100 Received: by mchp9daa.mch.sbs.de with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id ; Mon, 6 Dec 2004 13:57:45 +0100 Message-ID: <2A8DB02E3018D411901B009027FD3A3F0542C75F@mchp905a.mch.sbs.de> From: Tschofenig Hannes To: James Kempf , mip6@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Mip6] New Draft with Bootstrapping Protocol Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 13:57:26 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 21c69d3cfc2dd19218717dbe1d974352 X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip6-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 50a516d93fd399dc60588708fd9a3002 hi james, this is an interesting document. you might remember my non-published draft which i have sent to the bootstrapping design team mailing list which basically said "use ikev2 if you want to establish an ipsec sa". after we wrote the bootstrapping problem statement draft there is very little meat left apart from saying: use ikev2 (with all its features) so, why do you need a draft? ciao hannes > -----Original Message----- > From: James Kempf [mailto:kempf@docomolabs-usa.com] > Sent: Samstag, 04. Dezember 2004 01:02 > To: mip6@ietf.org > Subject: [Mip6] New Draft with Bootstrapping Protocol > > Hi folks, > > Samita, Erik Nordmark, and I have written a new draft with a > solution for the MIPv6 bootstrapping problem. Until it shows > up in the Internet Drafts registry, you can find it here: > > http://www.geocities.com/kempf42/draft-chakrabarti-mip6-bmip-00.txt > > The draft is meant to be an alternative to an AAA/EAP based > solution for those networks where AAA is either not deployed > or where the network service provider is not integrated, i.e. > there is a separate network service provider and mobility > service provider. > > jak > > > > _______________________________________________ > Mip6 mailing list > Mip6@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 > _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Mon Dec 6 11:18:16 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA26415 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 2004 11:18:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CbLfS-0000Fq-H8 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Dec 2004 11:24:55 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CbLQl-0003Me-Pe; Mon, 06 Dec 2004 11:09:43 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CbLLN-0002N3-In for mip6@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 06 Dec 2004 11:04:10 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA25533 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 2004 11:04:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from mgw-x3.nokia.com ([131.228.20.26]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CbLRj-0008Pu-Ng for mip6@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Dec 2004 11:10:45 -0500 Received: from esdks002.ntc.nokia.com (esdks002.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.138.121]) by mgw-x3.nokia.com (Switch-2.2.8/Switch-2.2.8) with ESMTP id iB6G3nG00212; Mon, 6 Dec 2004 18:03:54 +0200 (EET) X-Scanned: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 18:02:51 +0200 Nokia Message Protector V1.3.31 2004060815 - RELEASE Received: (from root@localhost) by esdks002.ntc.nokia.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) id iB6G2pU8031874; Mon, 6 Dec 2004 18:02:51 +0200 Received: from mgw-int2.ntc.nokia.com (172.21.143.97) by esdks002.ntc.nokia.com 00NVFGFJ; Mon, 06 Dec 2004 18:02:50 EET Received: from esebh001.NOE.Nokia.com (esebh001.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.138.28]) by mgw-int2.ntc.nokia.com (Switch-2.2.8/Switch-2.2.8) with ESMTP id iB6G2nS11688; Mon, 6 Dec 2004 18:02:49 +0200 (EET) Received: from [192.168.80.40] ([192.168.80.40]) by esebh001.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6881); Mon, 6 Dec 2004 18:02:40 +0200 From: "John Loughney" To: "ext Thierry Ernst" Subject: Re: [Mip6] IETF61 WG meeting minutes (Draft) Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 18:00:00 +0200 Message-ID: <3z4JVPWgTxxX.V30RNLYj@mail.nokia.com> X-Mailer: EPOC e-mail version 2.10 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Dec 2004 16:02:40.0911 (UTC) FILETIME=[039491F0:01C4DBAD] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: a2c4a3535d1556ada67f8703d3d31591 Cc: mip6@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: John Loughney List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip6-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0d6b5666eba887052ef5e87a9de0d3b8 Hi Thierry, I had to run to catch a plane so I did not catch your presentation. Did someone else get notes? John ________________ Original message ________________ Subject: Re: [Mip6] IETF61 WG meeting minutes (Draft) Author: "ext Thierry Ernst" Date: 06th December 2004 9:24:48 PM Seems that my slot about multihoming (was after next steps) hasn't been reported. Thierry On Sat, 4 Dec 2004 17:46:43 -0600 Basavaraj.Patil@nokia.com wrote: > > > Minutes of MIP6 WG meeting > -------------------------- > > IETF61, Washington DC > Nov 12th, Friday 2004 > 9 AM - 1130 AM > > Chairs: Basavaraj Patil and Gopal Dometty > > Minutes provided by: Samita Chakrabarti and John Loughney > > > 1. Agenda bashing and WG doc status update > ------------------------------------------- > > - MIPv6 Socket API - completed last call - now on AD review > - Firewall issues I-D completed LC > - MIP6 MIB status: MIBdoctor pass1 completed; pass2 ongoing > > - TAHI test suite will release version 3.0 in December which is fully > compliant with RFC3775/3776 > URL: http://www.tahi.org/mipv6/ > > 2. Auth I-D discussion > ---------------------- > A consensus call on standardizing this I-D was held on the WG > ML. Chairs believe consensus was to progress the I-D as a proposed > standard. An issue tracker for the I-D has been created. Comments > are welcome. > > Thomas Narten: There is an appeal to the Consensus call result now. > Consensus was rough, nice if it was clearer. > We don't formally vote. Packing the room is something to look for, > but lurkers can be informed / posters can be uninformed. > Counting company votes is dangerous. > > Question / choices: > 1. Do not publish at all - has consequences for the relevance of the IETF > 2. Publish on standards track - sends signal that this has IETF support > 3. Publish as info - Does get IETF review & has been done in other > cases, e.g. - 3GPP > > James K - has interoperability concerns, but if just for 3GPP2, then > its OK. 3GPP2 has come to the IETF, so we should do it. Concerned > about standards track, because it might cause interoperability issues > due to multiple mechanisms. Would like MIP community to work better > with 3GPP2. > > Thomas Narten - we've had a relationship for 3 years with 3GPP and > have engineer to engineer working, agrees that would be nice to have > with 3GPP2. > > Basavaraj - disagrees that there will be interop problems. People who > want to deploy it are from 3gpp2, but could have wider possibly > applicability. Haven't heard about what the concerns of folks who > don't want this work to be standardized. > > Pervez Yegani - 3GPP2 needs this work, working with Thomas on liason > statement. Doesn't see an interop issue. > > James K - Explained twice already. IETF can specify two mechanisms, > but operator can deploy just one. If you have a terminal that > supports both mechanisms, it may be confused which one can be used. > Problem is a deployment. > > Hesham - it's not an interop problem but a deployment problem. In > similar circumstantes, sometimes a higher order mechanism is needed > for negotiation. Wants third option. > > Gopal - Disagrees with James. We cannot control deployments. This is > not 3GPP specific. > > Thomas - should be careful about calling it an interop problem. Its > not black or white. It might be that 3GPP2 wants to avoid the IPsec > mechanism. There can be a cost with multiple mechanisms. > > Eric Nordmark - unwise to have multiple mechanisms; we will have to > implement both or circumstances will not work. Thinks that some > assumptions are wrong. If we have multiple mechanisms, then we should > have a good reason for this. > > Basavaraj - saying that the HA will need to implement both, terminal > will only need one. > > Jari Arkko - it doesn't have to be a weaker option. interop issue - > distintion is that 2 random nodes will authenticate to each other. > > Pete McCann - this mechanism is needed to interface with existing > credentials, removed IPsec from current architecture because IPsec / > IKE v1 cannot interface with existing credentials > > James - thinks we should go back to 3GPP2 and get them to find out > about what is needed for IKEv2 > > Someone - wonder if this could be handled in IPv6 host or MIPv6 host. > > Pervez - only argument we have heard against this is interoperability. > Don't we have rough consensus. > > Thomas - we don't vote, some people are debating the validity of the > consensus. > > Pervez - from the business perspective, saying it won't interoperate > isn't convincing. > > Basavaraj - doesn't see the benefit of publishing this as info. > > Greg Daley - tried to stay out of this discussion. Thinks we need > encryption between the HA & MN, but how to get the key? Thinks we > should work on this, doesn't care about the status of the document, > but would like do work on this. We need an AS on this > mechanism. Concerned that the Security Area will barf on this. > > Thomas - 3GPP2 needs this soon, so we need to complete this. > > Greg - then we need to get people involved in it. Concerned about > there is no ESP here. Need a checklist for this. Need strong > applicability statement on the features - multicast traffic might be > spoofed, etc. > > Gopal - if we do go info, we will have deployment, then future work > can be dependent on it. > > Thomas - thinks this will be an ongoing topic for discussion. > > Pascal - thinks there is an impact on other MIP related topics. We > will have 2 solutions on the handset. > > Thomas > How many people don't want it at all - noone > Do this as a standards track - 9 > Publish as informational - 30 > > Greg Daily- Release this as an experimental doc, but work on it still. > > Thomas Narten- reasonable to pub as info, but work on it still > > Hesham - can't have a contract promising anything, shouldn't be a > problem releasing it as info. > > Thomas Narten - 3GPP2 would prefer standards track. > > Pekka Savola - we cannot make a contract, publish as info/exp. because > of timing requirements, and then analyze the problem more. > > > 3. IKEv2 on MIP6 (Vijay Devarapalli) > ------------------------------------- > I-D: draft-ietf-mip6-ikev2-ipsec-00.txt > > RFC3776 describes IPsec on MIP6 > Changes in IPsec architecture (2401bis), and IKEv2 > > - New draft to incorporate these changes > - SPD and SAD config and packet formats > - required processing steps on the MN and HA > - describes the use of IKEv2 > > Key negotiation > - Manual keying must be supported > Dynamic keying though should be supported > > Dynamic key shoud or may? > > Comment - do you mean public key certificate? > - we have manual key for pre-shared key > Jari Arkko: The draft talks about how to use IKEv2 but this is optional- no > need to support it. In that case there is no issue. > > SPD config > New selectors > Mobility header msg type > ICMPv6 message type > > If IPsec specifieds mobility header as a selector, then MIP6 should > support it. > > Question: How do you make interfaces of IKEv1 and IKEv2 work together > in IPsec? > Vijay - The new IPsec will not be interoperable with the older one > Hesham Soliman - Are we going to step away from per-interface SPDs > Moving away from current interfaces is a good move. > Vijay - We still need to distinguish payloads in different cases, > tunnel, without tunnel etc. > > PAD configuration > Peer auth data base provides a link bet key protocol and SPD > > SAD config > Use of IKEv2 to negotiate keys > MN initiates IKEv2 exchange > Identity is included in IKE_AUTH > > Use of EAP > > - MN indicates it wants to use EAP by leaving IKE_AUTH field unfilled > IKE_AUTH should be done after EAP exchange > Issues > - takes 4 round trips instead of 2 > - Should work with other EAP and AAA-HA interface > - Should we say HA MUST/MAY require this interface? > > Home address configuration: > Must or May ? > Jim Kempf - It should be "SHOULD" > Erik N. - It looks like a bootstrapping solution. It should be linked > with bootstrap to have a single solution > Jari Arkko - thinks bootstrapping support here is a good thing. > > 4. Using IPsec to protect signaling between MN and CN (Francis Dupont) > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > I-D: draft-dupont-mipv6-cn-ipsec-01.txt > > Presented at the last IETF > Idea : When you have IPsec bet, CN and MN, just use it Has some > details in the doc what is suitable. You need SA between CN and MN etc. > > Question: > - Should it be WG item ? > > - Seperate doc for the cookie-based COA test? (optional) > > - Implementations(already one, others?) > > Vijay - Will support it to become WG doc > > Jim Kempf - We should think about how it interacts with Mobike. > We should make this as wg draft. > Suresh - It should be a wg document > > B Patil - Anyone has objection to make it wg doc ? If not we make it > as wg doc > No objection was raised at the meeting. > > 4a: (Francis Dupont) > ------------------- > COA cookie test > > - Initiated by CN , usable by CN which does not have built-in COA > test/trust > - A state cookie is used in order to avoid DOS attacks > - non-empty IANA consideration section > > Next step: > > Which RO protection mechanism do we need? > > Vijay - it can be an optional care-of-addr test > > WG item? More discussion needed before we make a wg doc. > > Christian V: We had mailing list discussion but it modifies the way base > spec does. > Jim Kempf - We should be more systematic in thinking about one solution or > piecemeal soln > > Erik - Don't see how we tie in with RO cookie test. > If the threat is third party bombing attack, then how does it help? > What are the security requirements? > > Jari - I'd rather have Charlie's draft do COA addr test. Also take a look at > the draft we produced in Mobopts > > 5. AAA AND MOBILE IPV6 (Giaretta Gerardo) > ----------------------------------------- > 5.1 I-D: draft-giaretta-mip6-aaa-ha-goals-00.txt & > I-D: draft-yegin-mip6-aaa-fwk-00.txt > > > Motivation: > Dynamic MIP6 conf > MN-HA sec association > AAA-HA interface > - Interface between AAA of the MSP and HA (HA is a kind of access server) > > Basic security model > > MN --------------------MSP AAA -----------------------HA > > Usage scenario - bootstrapping directly with HA > > MN -----NAS------AAA-MSP-----HA > > Comment(Jee?)- Given EAP exchange is there any network access server? > We first need to have access through NAS then the second step > Ans:It is a direct interaction with HA > > Pete M : We can separate out network access from MIP access. We should not > tie them together. > > Usage scenario 2 > > MN --- NAS--------AAA-MSP -------------HA > <-------piggybacked > MIp6 within > EAP -> <---AAA-HA ------> A) > > <-- PANA, L2 > DHCP > extension->< RADIS/DIA-><---AAA-HA--> B) > > > Hesham - Make it generic > Comment - Focus should not only focus AAA-HA protocol, but > also NAS-MSP-AAA > Greg D - Did not read the draft. If you have security across > NAS, AAA-MSP, HA- Do you already have security association > between MSP and HA? > > Hesham - This is a good way to use IPsec in MIP6 > > James - This solution is not going to work if you don't have AAA > infrastructure > > Usage scenario3 > MN---------NAS_____________AAA-MSP -------HA > <---AAA-HA---> > <--BU?-------> > > Goals: > Security, Accounting etc. > > Next steps > Should we identify a protocol that fulfil the goals? > DIAMETER, RADIUS, SNMPv3 > > Similar draft by Alper on AAA-HA interfaces - Raj has sent > out the pointer to the slides. In the interest of time, the draft was > not presented. Raj described briefly the highlights of Alpers I-D. > > Hesham : What is the requirement? - Should the requirements go to AAA, midco > m ? > No reason to put requirement for midcom wg > > James Kempf - likes this, would like to remind people that there are > hotspots without link security and authenticates via web page. This > solution won't work if you don't have a AAA infra. > Should we work on this? > > Hesham Soliman - what is the intention of this? > > Basavaraj Patil - development requirements for AAA work. > > 5.2 MIPV6 AUTHORIZATION AND CONFIGURATION BASED ON EAP > ------------------------------------------------------ > I-D: draft-giaretta-mip6-authorization-eap-02.txt Giaretta Gerardo > > someone - how to define aaa server between ha & aaa server? > > Pasi Eronen - lots of info that would like to provision to user. EAP > isn't the right approach. > > Jari Arkko - agrees with Pasi. There are procedural issues as well as > technical. This approach might not require AP changes, but changes to > EAP methods. If you can re-use existing protocols, this is easier. > If you want to use EAP for new purposes, this is harder. > > James Kempf - would prefer to be minimalistic here. > > Hesham Soliman - agree we need to draw a limit, but there are 3 > levels of auth typically. There is interest in leveraging AAA infra > for this. Doesn't think this will change EAP much. > > Next step > - Waiting for EAP wg feedback > - WG doc? > > MN-HA Ipsec SA can be estblished from a shared secret using IKE with PSK auth > EAP method can be used to exchange PSK > > Jari A- There are some other requirements in EAP methods. > > 5.3 APPLICATION MASTER SESSION KEY (AMSK) FOR MOBILE IPV6 > --------------------------------------------------------- > I-D: draft-giaretta-mip6-amsk-00.txt Giaretta Gerardo > > Jari Arkko - question on changes to EAP framework. As a whole, there > are more requirements than just on EAP methods, may be changing EAP > API. > > Hesham Soliman - does EAP SIM produce an AMSK? > > Jari Arkko - I think so. > > 6 DIAMETER MOBILE IPV6 BOOTSTRAPPING APPLICATION USING PANA > ----------------------------------------------------------- > I-D: draft-jee-mip6-bootstrap-pana-00.txt > I-D: draft-tschofenig-mip6-bootstrapping-pana-00.txt > > Junghoon Jee, Hannes Tschofenig > > PANA is used between MN and HA > Used to bootstrap mip6-auth > > Pac << HA > > Does wg think PANA is appropriate to deliver bootstrapping info ? > > New DIAMETER bootstrapping scenario? > > James K - PANA can work with EAP. Has a problem defining PANA to go > beyond 1st hop link. ICMP often doesn't work after 1st hop. > Yoshihiro Ohba - PANA is based on UDP > James - OK, so I guess that is not a problem. > > 7. MOBILE IPV6 BOOTSTRAPPING ARCHITECTURE USING DHCP > ---------------------------------------------------- > I-D: draft-ohba-mip6-boot-arch-dhcp-00 Yoshihiro Ohba > > > Model 1 - DHCP server AAA-MS client > Model 2 - NAS as AAA-MS client > > Draft describes how this arch map to bootstrapping scenario > > James Kempf - Ralph Droms mentioned that backending DHCP server into > AAA server is not a good idea. Same problem about NAS pushing stuff > into DHCP server. OK to put Home Address into DHCP server. Concerned > about the complications & bittleness of this. > > > 8. BOOTSTRAP CONTROL FUNCTION MECHANISM FOR MOBILE IPV6 BOOTSTRAP > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > I-D: draft-deng-mip6-bootstrap-bcf-00.txt Hui Deng > - Introduced new network element (BCF) > > AAA ------- HA1 > | | > MN -----BCF -------- ---- HA2 > | > --------- HA3 > > > > Discuss on list with rest of the bootstrapping stuff. Possible design > team issue. > > 9. PRECOMPUTABLE BINDING MANAGEMENT KEY KBM FOR MOBILE IPV6 > ----------------------------------------------------------- > I-D: draft-ietf-mip6-precfgkbm-01.txt > Vijay Devarapalli > > - Proceed with this document. > > 10. IMPROVEMENT OF RETURN ROUTABILITY PROTOCOL > ---------------------------------------------- > I-D: draft-qiu-mip6-rr-improvement-00.txt > Jianying ZHOU > > DOS attack, session hijacking, movement halting attack > Problem HOTI/COTI - independent of COA and HoA > > use HOA in COTI and COA in HOTI for authentication and signals > > Christian V.- Even if you combine the two, the attacker will have > ability to attack > > Yes - but it is much more difficult, as it needs to know both addr > > Erik - If we do this, we can't keep the same home keygen when COA changes > > Jari - What's the point becuase the packets are flying by anyway and has > same limitation that Erik mentioned > > 11. Next steps for WG > --------------------- > > - Bring closure to Auth and Identifier > - Taking transition problem as wg doc > - DT for bootstrapping > - Revise charter based on privacy bar bof > > _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Mon Dec 6 11:57:04 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA29646 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 2004 11:57:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CbMH1-0001Dv-TJ for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Dec 2004 12:03:44 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CbM9c-0005LW-Nh; Mon, 06 Dec 2004 11:56:04 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CbM8k-0005BL-O8 for mip6@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 06 Dec 2004 11:55:10 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA29551 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 2004 11:55:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from key1.docomolabs-usa.com ([216.98.102.225] helo=fridge.docomolabs-usa.com ident=fwuser) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CbMF5-0001Bb-SG for mip6@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Dec 2004 12:01:47 -0500 Message-ID: <00e601c4dbb4$714acbe0$5d6015ac@dcml.docomolabsusa.com> From: "James Kempf" To: "Tschofenig Hannes" , References: <2A8DB02E3018D411901B009027FD3A3F0542C75F@mchp905a.mch.sbs.de> Subject: Re: [Mip6] New Draft with Bootstrapping Protocol Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 08:55:44 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7655788c23eb79e336f5f8ba8bce7906 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip6-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0bc60ec82efc80c84b8d02f4b0e4de22 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > this is an interesting document. you might remember my non-published draft > which i have sent to the bootstrapping design team mailing list which > basically said "use ikev2 if you want to establish an ipsec sa". after we > wrote the bootstrapping problem statement draft there is very little meat > left apart from saying: use ikev2 (with all its features) > > so, > why do you need a draft? > For one, to specify the DNS SRV RR format for finding the HA address. I actually don't recall your draft, did it say anything about using DNS SRV? This is important for interoperability. For two, to give a more detailed description of how to use IKEv2. For example, using the NAI for identity, and what IKE identity type. This could also be useful for interoperability. And for three, to give an alternative for cases where AAA is not available, as I stated in the email message. jak _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Mon Dec 6 12:39:13 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA03290 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 2004 12:39:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CbMvp-000285-6H for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Dec 2004 12:45:53 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CbMmz-0007Rg-Rn; Mon, 06 Dec 2004 12:36:45 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CbMjA-0006Pr-5F for mip6@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 06 Dec 2004 12:32:48 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA02555 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 2004 12:32:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from goliath.siemens.de ([192.35.17.28]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CbMpY-0001yL-DX for mip6@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Dec 2004 12:39:25 -0500 Received: from mail3.siemens.de (mail3.siemens.de [139.25.208.14]) by goliath.siemens.de (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id iB6HWYeh031355; Mon, 6 Dec 2004 18:32:34 +0100 Received: from mchp9daa.mch.sbs.de (mchp9daa.mch.sbs.de [139.25.137.99]) by mail3.siemens.de (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id iB6HWXmf030408; Mon, 6 Dec 2004 18:32:33 +0100 Received: by mchp9daa.mch.sbs.de with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id ; Mon, 6 Dec 2004 18:32:33 +0100 Message-ID: <2A8DB02E3018D411901B009027FD3A3F0542C806@mchp905a.mch.sbs.de> From: Tschofenig Hannes To: James Kempf , mip6@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Mip6] New Draft with Bootstrapping Protocol Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 18:32:19 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 41c17b4b16d1eedaa8395c26e9a251c4 X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip6-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 25620135586de10c627e3628c432b04a hi james, thanks for your quick response. please see my comments inline: > > this is an interesting document. you might remember my > non-published > > draft which i have sent to the bootstrapping design team > mailing list > > which basically said "use ikev2 if you want to establish an > ipsec sa". > > after we wrote the bootstrapping problem statement draft > there is very > > little meat left apart from saying: use ikev2 (with all its > features) > > > > so, > > why do you need a draft? > > > > For one, to specify the DNS SRV RR format for finding the HA > address. I actually don't recall your draft, did it say > anything about using DNS SRV? no, i think i haven't. i need to check. i pointed to the work done in the 3gpp with regard to this issue (in the area of wlan/3g interworking). is your proposed based on the 3gpp approach? there is also work in the v6ops group on tunnel endpoint discovery which is very similar (since the the home agent is also a tunnel endpoint). > This is important for interoperability. For two, to give a > more detailed description of how to use IKEv2. For example, > using the NAI for identity, and what IKE identity type. This > could also be useful for interoperability. hmm. if you use eap authentication then you need to use the nai anyway. there was some discussion about a nai identity type (on the ipsec mailing list) and people believed that the ID_RFC822_ADDR is sufficient. there don't seem to be too many choices. regarding public key based authentication of the responder to the initiator you might want to take a look at: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-eronen-ipsec-ikev2-eap-auth-02.txt furthermore, we have provided some details ipv4/ipv6 transition with ipsec at: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-tschofenig-v6ops-secure-tunnels-02 .txt (although this document has a different scope; it also points to tunnel endpoint discovery) > And for three, to give an alternative for cases where AAA is > not available, as I stated in the email message. this is certainly an interesting issue - probably also for the enroll working group. i guess you refer to section 2.1 (UMA) where bootstrapping is provided with the help of a web page. this aspect is also known from the v6ops area where you can configure your tunnel broker using a web page. ciao hannes > > > > jak > > _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Mon Dec 6 13:03:41 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA05346 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 2004 13:03:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CbNJV-0002fw-0Y for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Dec 2004 13:10:21 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CbNBw-0004g0-B7; Mon, 06 Dec 2004 13:02:32 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CbN3b-0002Wq-Ni for mip6@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 06 Dec 2004 12:53:55 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA04476 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 2004 12:53:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from key1.docomolabs-usa.com ([216.98.102.225] helo=fridge.docomolabs-usa.com ident=fwuser) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CbN9q-0002QD-7n for mip6@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Dec 2004 13:00:32 -0500 Message-ID: <011601c4dbbc$a8318a10$5d6015ac@dcml.docomolabsusa.com> From: "James Kempf" To: "Tschofenig Hannes" , References: <2A8DB02E3018D411901B009027FD3A3F0542C806@mchp905a.mch.sbs.de> Subject: Re: [Mip6] New Draft with Bootstrapping Protocol Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 09:54:33 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: e8a67952aa972b528dd04570d58ad8fe Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip6-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: f60d0f7806b0c40781eee6b9cd0b2135 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > i pointed to the work done in the 3gpp with regard to this issue (in the > area of wlan/3g interworking). is your proposed based on the 3gpp approach? > there is also work in the v6ops group on tunnel endpoint discovery which is > very similar (since the the home agent is also a tunnel endpoint). > Yes, I'm aware of the 3GPP work, but this isn't related. Perhaps the v6ops tunnel discovery would be another option, it sounds worthy of further investigation. > > > This is important for interoperability. For two, to give a > > more detailed description of how to use IKEv2. For example, > > using the NAI for identity, and what IKE identity type. This > > could also be useful for interoperability. > hmm. > if you use eap authentication then you need to use the nai anyway. there was > some discussion about a nai identity type (on the ipsec mailing list) and > people believed that the ID_RFC822_ADDR is sufficient. there don't seem to > be too many choices. > > regarding public key based authentication of the responder to the initiator > you might want to take a look at: > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-eronen-ipsec-ikev2-eap-auth-02.txt > > furthermore, we have provided some details ipv4/ipv6 transition with ipsec > at: > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-tschofenig-v6ops-secure-tunnels-02 > .txt > (although this document has a different scope; it also points to tunnel > endpoint discovery) > Thanx for the references. > > And for three, to give an alternative for cases where AAA is > > not available, as I stated in the email message. > this is certainly an interesting issue - probably also for the enroll > working group. > i guess you refer to section 2.1 (UMA) where bootstrapping is provided with > the help of a web page. this aspect is also known from the v6ops area where > you can configure your tunnel broker using a web page. > Yes, that's the idea. Most hotspots today in the US and some I've used in Europe and Japan don't use EAP. Also, there's the enterprise and nonintegrated mobility service provider examples. You'll recall that we discussed the nonintegrated case in the problem statement design team. An EAP on network entry bootstrapping approach won't work for that case. jak _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Mon Dec 6 13:08:26 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA05844 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 2004 13:08:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CbNO3-0002nP-QV for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Dec 2004 13:15:04 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CbNBx-0004gU-2y; Mon, 06 Dec 2004 13:02:33 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CbN4H-0002kG-3v for mip6@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 06 Dec 2004 12:54:37 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA04510 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 2004 12:54:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from relay1.mail.vrmd.de ([81.28.232.18]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CbNAe-0002Qf-Qs for mip6@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Dec 2004 13:01:14 -0500 Received: from [213.168.106.241] (helo=[213.168.106.241]) by vm8.bln2.vrmd.de with asmtp (Exim 4.41) id 1CbN3k-0004KU-Vk for mip6@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Dec 2004 18:54:05 +0100 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) In-Reply-To: <2A8DB02E3018D411901B009027FD3A3F0542C806@mchp905a.mch.sbs.de> References: <2A8DB02E3018D411901B009027FD3A3F0542C806@mchp905a.mch.sbs.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: Marc Manthey Subject: Re: [Mip6] New Draft with Bootstrapping Protocol Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 18:54:06 +0100 To: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Relay-User: marc@let.de X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 386e0819b1192672467565a524848168 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip6-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8de5f93cb2b4e3bee75302e9eacc33db Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Dec 6, 2004, at 6:32 PM, Tschofenig Hannes wrote: > hi james, > > thanks for your quick response. please see my comments inline: > >>> this is an interesting document. you might remember my >> non-published >>> draft which i have sent to the bootstrapping design team >> mailing list >>> which basically said "use ikev2 if you want to establish an >> ipsec sa". >>> after we wrote the bootstrapping problem statement draft >> there is very >>> little meat left apart from saying: use ikev2 (with all its >> features) >>> >>> so, >>> why do you need a draft? >>> >> >> For one, to specify the DNS SRV RR format for finding the HA >> address. I actually don't recall your draft, did it say >> anything about using DNS SRV? > no, i think i haven't. i need to check. > > i pointed to the work done in the 3gpp with regard to this issue (in =20= > the > area of wlan/3g interworking). is your proposed based on the 3gpp =20 > approach? there is a lot of discussion in a few apple lists too. =46rom my point of view is 3gpp one of the most importand things for the content provider market. > there is also work in the v6ops group on tunnel endpoint discovery =20 > which is > very similar (since the the home agent is also a tunnel endpoint). this takes a lot of bandwith > > >> This is important for interoperability. For two, to give a >> more detailed description of how to use IKEv2. For example, >> using the NAI for identity, and what IKE identity type. This >> could also be useful for interoperability. exactly > hmm. > if you use eap authentication then you need to use the nai anyway. =20 > there was > some discussion about a nai identity type (on the ipsec mailing list) =20= > and > people believed that the ID_RFC822_ADDR is sufficient. there don't =20= > seem to > be too many choices. > > regarding public key based authentication of the responder to the =20 > initiator > you might want to take a look at: > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-eronen-ipsec-ikev2-eap-auth=20= > -02.txt > there are some documents here too > furthermore, we have provided some details ipv4/ipv6 transition with =20= > ipsec > at: > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-tschofenig-v6ops-secure-=20 > tunnels-02 > .txt > (although this document has a different scope; it also points to = tunnel > endpoint discovery) > > ciao > hannes tch=F6 marque >> jak --=20 "It doesn't matter who you are, it's what you do that takes you far" =97Madonna. M. Manthey http://brain.let.de _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Mon Dec 6 13:16:50 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA07350 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 2004 13:16:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CbNWE-00034E-15 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Dec 2004 13:23:31 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CbNNp-0007yg-Kc; Mon, 06 Dec 2004 13:14:49 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CbNDY-0005Ew-0V for mip6@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 06 Dec 2004 13:04:12 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA05466 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 2004 13:04:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from david.siemens.de ([192.35.17.14]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CbNJw-0002gP-Or for mip6@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Dec 2004 13:10:49 -0500 Received: from mail3.siemens.de (mail3.siemens.de [139.25.208.14]) by david.siemens.de (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id iB6I45UO020374; Mon, 6 Dec 2004 19:04:05 +0100 Received: from mchp9daa.mch.sbs.de (mchp9daa.mch.sbs.de [139.25.137.99]) by mail3.siemens.de (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id iB6I44mf018671; Mon, 6 Dec 2004 19:04:04 +0100 Received: by mchp9daa.mch.sbs.de with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id ; Mon, 6 Dec 2004 19:04:04 +0100 Message-ID: <2A8DB02E3018D411901B009027FD3A3F0542C80A@mchp905a.mch.sbs.de> From: Tschofenig Hannes To: James Kempf , mip6@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Mip6] New Draft with Bootstrapping Protocol Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 19:03:17 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9182cfff02fae4f1b6e9349e01d62f32 X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip6-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ea4ac80f790299f943f0a53be7e1a21a hi james, ~snip~ > > > > Yes, that's the idea. Most hotspots today in the US and some > I've used in Europe and Japan don't use EAP. Also, there's > the enterprise and nonintegrated mobility service provider > examples. You'll recall that we discussed the nonintegrated > case in the problem statement design team. An EAP on network > entry bootstrapping approach won't work for that case. that's certainly true and also true for network access scenarios. the drawbacks of these approaches are also known. i am, however, not quite sure what you would like to standardize in this case. ciao hannes > > > jak > > _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Mon Dec 6 13:35:47 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA09363 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 2004 13:35:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CbNoW-0003Qw-LV for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Dec 2004 13:42:25 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CbNep-0002pS-Kg; Mon, 06 Dec 2004 13:32:23 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CbNUN-0001Go-1P for mip6@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 06 Dec 2004 13:21:35 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA07683 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 2004 13:21:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from key1.docomolabs-usa.com ([216.98.102.225] helo=fridge.docomolabs-usa.com ident=fwuser) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CbNak-0003AD-VX for mip6@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Dec 2004 13:28:12 -0500 Message-ID: <014401c4dbc0$8a45cad0$5d6015ac@dcml.docomolabsusa.com> From: "James Kempf" To: "Tschofenig Hannes" , References: <2A8DB02E3018D411901B009027FD3A3F0542C80A@mchp905a.mch.sbs.de> Subject: Re: [Mip6] New Draft with Bootstrapping Protocol Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 10:22:20 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 93238566e09e6e262849b4f805833007 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip6-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9466e0365fc95844abaf7c3f15a05c7d Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Yes, that's the idea. Most hotspots today in the US and some > > I've used in Europe and Japan don't use EAP. Also, there's > > the enterprise and nonintegrated mobility service provider > > examples. You'll recall that we discussed the nonintegrated > > case in the problem statement design team. An EAP on network > > entry bootstrapping approach won't work for that case. > > that's certainly true and also true for network access scenarios. the > drawbacks of these approaches are also known. i am, however, not quite sure > what you would like to standardize in this case. > A specified, interoperable way of doing HA configuration without AAA would, I think, be useful. As you mention, most of the rest can be handled by IKEv2. Perhaps actually writing down how to use IKEv2 for bootstrapping in this context would also be useful as an example, since the IKEv2 spec is 108 pages long, and Vijay's draft probably shouldn't go into bootstrapping in detail, since it needs to be applicable to both cases. jak _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Mon Dec 6 13:37:22 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA09580 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 2004 13:37:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CbNq4-0003Tm-BG for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Dec 2004 13:44:01 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CbNer-0002pr-11; Mon, 06 Dec 2004 13:32:25 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CbNVs-0001K0-8t for mip6@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 06 Dec 2004 13:23:08 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA07733 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 2004 13:23:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from key1.docomolabs-usa.com ([216.98.102.225] helo=fridge.docomolabs-usa.com ident=fwuser) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CbNcH-0003BD-BM for mip6@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Dec 2004 13:29:45 -0500 Message-ID: <014b01c4dbc0$c3533330$5d6015ac@dcml.docomolabsusa.com> From: "James Kempf" To: "Marc Manthey" , References: <2A8DB02E3018D411901B009027FD3A3F0542C806@mchp905a.mch.sbs.de> Subject: Re: [Mip6] New Draft with Bootstrapping Protocol Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 10:23:56 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 08e48e05374109708c00c6208b534009 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip6-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7a6398bf8aaeabc7a7bb696b6b0a2aad Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >there are some documents here too > > OK, thanx, I'll check them out. jak _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Mon Dec 6 14:25:12 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA14931 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 2004 14:25:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CbOaM-000508-VC for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Dec 2004 14:31:52 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CbONf-0006nm-0Y; Mon, 06 Dec 2004 14:18:43 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CbOGJ-0004Jc-Qb for mip6@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 06 Dec 2004 14:11:07 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA13130 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 2004 14:11:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from relay1.mail.vrmd.de ([81.28.232.18]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CbOMi-0004RL-JL for mip6@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Dec 2004 14:17:45 -0500 Received: from [213.168.106.241] (helo=[213.168.106.241]) by vm8.bln2.vrmd.de with asmtp (Exim 4.41) id 1CbOFo-0004tD-3H for mip6@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Dec 2004 20:10:36 +0100 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) In-Reply-To: <014401c4dbc0$8a45cad0$5d6015ac@dcml.docomolabsusa.com> References: <2A8DB02E3018D411901B009027FD3A3F0542C80A@mchp905a.mch.sbs.de> <014401c4dbc0$8a45cad0$5d6015ac@dcml.docomolabsusa.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Message-Id: <82ACD028-47BA-11D9-9DD6-0030658FAAAC@let.de> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: Marc Manthey Subject: Re: [Mip6] New Draft with Bootstrapping Protocol Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 20:10:36 +0100 To: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Relay-User: marc@let.de X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 2409bba43e9c8d580670fda8b695204a Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip6-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8abaac9e10c826e8252866cbe6766464 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Dec 6, 2004, at 7:22 PM, James Kempf wrote: >>> Yes, that's the idea. Most hotspots today in the US and some >>> I've used in Europe and Japan don't use EAP. Also, there's >>> the enterprise and nonintegrated mobility service provider >>> examples. You'll recall that we discussed the nonintegrated >>> case in the problem statement design team. An EAP on network >>> entry bootstrapping approach won't work for that case. IMHO the idea that ipv6 could reach millions of peoople could cause a lack of traffic to normal phone companys this is the problem what we have in germany. There is always a "last mile" and the costs for umts, gprs,hdscd is enormous cause of the billions what the "lizense" of UMTS cost for all the providers. So what could happen when there is a protokol that connects all hotspots ? You can=B4t even acces one hotspot in germany whitout having a telekom account.!!! is that monopoly? true or false? cheers marc --=20 Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. http://let.de _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Mon Dec 6 17:48:09 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA03860 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 2004 17:48:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CbRkp-0001aa-5i for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Dec 2004 17:54:52 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CbRb5-0003jS-4M; Mon, 06 Dec 2004 17:44:47 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CbRZm-0003HG-8R for mip6@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 06 Dec 2004 17:43:26 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA03480 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 2004 17:43:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from key1.docomolabs-usa.com ([216.98.102.225] helo=fridge.docomolabs-usa.com ident=fwuser) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CbRg8-0001TZ-MQ for mip6@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Dec 2004 17:50:04 -0500 Message-ID: <020d01c4dbe5$19225290$5d6015ac@dcml.docomolabsusa.com> From: "James Kempf" To: "Marc Manthey" , References: <2A8DB02E3018D411901B009027FD3A3F0542C80A@mchp905a.mch.sbs.de><014401c4dbc0$8a45cad0$5d6015ac@dcml.docomolabsusa.com> <82ACD028-47BA-11D9-9DD6-0030658FAAAC@let.de> Subject: Re: [Mip6] New Draft with Bootstrapping Protocol Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 14:44:01 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7d33c50f3756db14428398e2bdedd581 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip6-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ffa9dfbbe7cc58b3fa6b8ae3e57b0aa3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > IMHO the idea that ipv6 could reach millions of peoople could > cause a lack of traffic to normal phone companys this is > the problem what we have in germany. There is always a "last mile" > and the costs for umts, gprs,hdscd is enormous cause of the > billions what the "lizense" of UMTS cost for all the providers. > So what could happen when there is a protokol that connects > all hotspots ? > You can=B4t even acces one hotspot in germany whitout having > a telekom account.!!! is that monopoly? > true or false? Hmm, well, it certainly wasn't our intention to put Deutsche Telecom out = of business by publishing this document. In any event, I think this isn't the right mailing list for this kind of discussion, perhaps better on the ietf mailing list. jak _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Mon Dec 6 18:05:17 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA05470 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 2004 18:05:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CbS1P-00020P-Rx for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Dec 2004 18:12:00 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CbRpo-0006ql-Mr; Mon, 06 Dec 2004 18:00:00 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CbRov-0006ff-Rs for mip6@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 06 Dec 2004 17:59:05 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA04795 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 2004 17:59:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailout2.samsung.com ([203.254.224.25]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CbRvN-0001q6-Ag for mip6@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Dec 2004 18:05:45 -0500 Received: from custom-daemon.mailout2.samsung.com by mailout2.samsung.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.17 (built Jun 23 2003)) id <0I8B00M01P5KV7@mailout2.samsung.com> for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Dec 2004 07:58:32 +0900 (KST) Received: from ep_mmp2 (mailout2.samsung.com [203.254.224.25]) by mailout2.samsung.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.17 (built Jun 23 2003)) with ESMTP id <0I8B002W9P5JXX@mailout2.samsung.com> for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Dec 2004 07:58:32 +0900 (KST) Received: from Alperyegin ([105.144.29.41]) by mmp2.samsung.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.17 (built Jun 23 2003)) with ESMTPA id <0I8B00ML4P5H20@mmp2.samsung.com> for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Dec 2004 07:58:31 +0900 (KST) Date: Mon, 06 Dec 2004 14:58:29 -0800 From: Alper Yegin To: mip6@ietf.org Message-id: <011901c4dbe7$1b3c6e10$291d9069@sisa.samsung.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ffa9dfbbe7cc58b3fa6b8ae3e57b0aa3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Subject: [Mip6] comments on chakrabarti-mip6-bmip X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip6-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: e5ba305d0e64821bf3d8bc5d3bb07228 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hello, This is an interesting I-D for "discovering HA" part of MIP6 bootstrapping problem. Instead of knowing a home subnet or IPv6 addresses of home agents, knowing the domain name is sufficient to learn HA addresses. I think for the "AAA" discussions, the document should clearly state what AAA-enabled service is being addressed. The implicit assumption is that it refers to "AAA for network access service". But in fact, there is also "AAA for Mobile IPv6 service", and I'm not sure if a complete solution can be developed without that. The I-D is not discussing how MN is authenticated/authorized for the mobility service. It is not likely that an HA learned via DNS would already have authentication/authorization information for the MN. Hence, even a DNS-learned HA is likely to rely on a MIP6-AAA application to authenticate the MN. Please see draft-yegin-mip6-aaa-fwk-00.txt. And (imho) real value of IKEv2 is that it allows use of EAP, which fits into MN-HA-AAA model described in mip6-aaa-fwk I-D. Not a standard, but products already assign IP addresses via IKEv1. Alper _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Mon Dec 6 18:10:54 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA06365 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 2004 18:10:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CbS6r-000290-2l for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Dec 2004 18:17:37 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CbRzM-0003vN-GV; Mon, 06 Dec 2004 18:09:52 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CbRyS-0003ai-3A for mip6@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 06 Dec 2004 18:08:56 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA06002 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 2004 18:08:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from key1.docomolabs-usa.com ([216.98.102.225] helo=fridge.docomolabs-usa.com ident=fwuser) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CbS4t-000266-Mc for mip6@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Dec 2004 18:15:36 -0500 Message-ID: <023701c4dbe8$b0503a80$5d6015ac@dcml.docomolabsusa.com> From: "James Kempf" To: "Alper Yegin" , References: <011901c4dbe7$1b3c6e10$291d9069@sisa.samsung.com> Subject: Re: [Mip6] comments on chakrabarti-mip6-bmip Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 15:09:44 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 769a46790fb42fbb0b0cc700c82f7081 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip6-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 538aad3a3c4f01d8b6a6477ca4248793 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Alper, Thank you for the thoughtful comments. We'll try to incorporate them on the next draft. jak ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alper Yegin" To: Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 2:58 PM Subject: [Mip6] comments on chakrabarti-mip6-bmip > > Hello, > > This is an interesting I-D for "discovering HA" part of MIP6 > bootstrapping problem. Instead of knowing a home subnet or IPv6 > addresses of home agents, knowing the domain name is sufficient to learn > HA addresses. > > I think for the "AAA" discussions, the document should clearly state > what AAA-enabled service is being addressed. The implicit assumption is > that it refers to "AAA for network access service". But in fact, there > is also "AAA for Mobile IPv6 service", and I'm not sure if a complete > solution can be developed without that. The I-D is not discussing how MN > is authenticated/authorized for the mobility service. > > It is not likely that an HA learned via DNS would already have > authentication/authorization information for the MN. Hence, even a > DNS-learned HA is likely to rely on a MIP6-AAA application to > authenticate the MN. Please see draft-yegin-mip6-aaa-fwk-00.txt. And > (imho) real value of IKEv2 is that it allows use of EAP, which fits into > MN-HA-AAA model described in mip6-aaa-fwk I-D. Not a standard, but > products already assign IP addresses via IKEv1. > > Alper > > > > _______________________________________________ > Mip6 mailing list > Mip6@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 > _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Mon Dec 6 21:08:25 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA18998 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 2004 21:08:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CbUse-0005nB-Gj for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Dec 2004 21:15:09 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CbUim-0000yj-Hz; Mon, 06 Dec 2004 21:04:56 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CbUaO-0007Z6-NX for mip6@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 06 Dec 2004 20:56:16 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA18025 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 2004 20:56:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from ip-10-194-65-202.rev.dyxnet.com ([202.65.194.10] helo=hitachi.cn) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CbUgR-0005Sl-7Q for mip6@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Dec 2004 21:02:53 -0500 Received: (qmail 32268 invoked by uid 104); 7 Dec 2004 01:55:13 -0000 Received: from hdeng@hitachi.cn by hitachihk1 with network-box scanner-1.10 (received+scanned in 28.774741 secs); 07 Dec 2004 01:55:13 -0000 X-Scanned-By-hitachihk1: Virus scan performed by network-box (www.network-box.com) X-Scanned-By-hitachihk1: Scanner file id is hitachihk1110238448451131847 X-Scanned-By-hitachihk1: No known viruses found in message (received+scanned in 28.774741 secs) X-Scanned-By-hitachihk1: Spam-Check-Result: No, hits=-96.1 required=7.0 tests=AWL, J_CHICKENPOX_32, J_CHICKENPOX_73, USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Status: No Received: from unknown (HELO europa.hitachi.cn) (202.0.122.180) by ip-11-194-65-202.rev.dyxnet.com with SMTP; 7 Dec 2004 01:54:43 -0000 Received: from HCBJDC2.hitachi-china.com ([170.95.81.2]) by europa.hitachi.cn with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5329); Tue, 7 Dec 2004 09:56:02 +0800 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [Mip6] IETF61 WG meeting minutes (Draft) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 09:55:57 +0800 Message-ID: <834B54D356AA8F46B9B233DD88BEAA38590CEC@hcbjdc2> Thread-Topic: [Mip6] IETF61 WG meeting minutes (Draft) Thread-Index: AcTbk5KEQZOD0xGqQYmtJxRNjvjOlAAbDdfg From: "DENG, HUI -HCHIBJ" To: "Thierry Ernst" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Dec 2004 01:56:02.0031 (UTC) FILETIME=[E7805FF0:01C4DBFF] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 3d48d865303330c98a6e90d450cf2ff2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip6-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 2ed9477f79f24ff120e9894ad9dc9cb5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable :) Seems also my slot about load balance has not been reported -Hui Deng -----Original Message----- From: Thierry Ernst [mailto:ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp]=20 Sent: 2004?12?6? 20:25 To: mip6@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Mip6] IETF61 WG meeting minutes (Draft) Seems that my slot about multihoming (was after next steps) hasn't been = reported.=20 Thierry On Sat, 4 Dec 2004 17:46:43 -0600 Basavaraj.Patil@nokia.com wrote: >=20 >=20 > Minutes of MIP6 WG meeting > -------------------------- >=20 > IETF61, Washington DC > Nov 12th, Friday 2004 > 9 AM - 1130 AM >=20 > Chairs: Basavaraj Patil and Gopal Dometty >=20 > Minutes provided by: Samita Chakrabarti and John Loughney >=20 >=20 > 1. Agenda bashing and WG doc status update > ------------------------------------------- >=20 > - MIPv6 Socket API - completed last call - now on AD review > - Firewall issues I-D completed LC > - MIP6 MIB status: MIBdoctor pass1 completed; pass2 ongoing >=20 > - TAHI test suite will release version 3.0 in December which is fully > compliant with RFC3775/3776 > URL: http://www.tahi.org/mipv6/ >=20 > 2. Auth I-D discussion > ---------------------- > A consensus call on standardizing this I-D was held on the WG > ML. Chairs believe consensus was to progress the I-D as a proposed > standard. An issue tracker for the I-D has been created. Comments > are welcome. >=20 > Thomas Narten: There is an appeal to the Consensus call result now. > Consensus was rough, nice if it was clearer. > We don't formally vote. Packing the room is something to look for, > but lurkers can be informed / posters can be uninformed.=20 > Counting company votes is dangerous. > =20 > Question / choices: > 1. Do not publish at all - has consequences for the relevance of the=20 > IETF 2. Publish on standards track - sends signal that this has IETF=20 > support 3. Publish as info - Does get IETF review & has been done in=20 > other cases, e.g. - 3GPP >=20 > James K - has interoperability concerns, but if just for 3GPP2, then=20 > its OK. 3GPP2 has come to the IETF, so we should do it. Concerned=20 > about standards track, because it might cause interoperability issues=20 > due to multiple mechanisms. Would like MIP community to work better=20 > with 3GPP2. >=20 > Thomas Narten - we've had a relationship for 3 years with 3GPP and=20 > have engineer to engineer working, agrees that would be nice to have=20 > with 3GPP2. >=20 > Basavaraj - disagrees that there will be interop problems. People who = > want to deploy it are from 3gpp2, but could have wider possibly=20 > applicability. Haven't heard about what the concerns of folks who=20 > don't want this work to be standardized. >=20 > Pervez Yegani - 3GPP2 needs this work, working with Thomas on liason=20 > statement. Doesn't see an interop issue. >=20 > James K - Explained twice already. IETF can specify two mechanisms,=20 > but operator can deploy just one. If you have a terminal that=20 > supports both mechanisms, it may be confused which one can be used.=20 > Problem is a deployment. >=20 > Hesham - it's not an interop problem but a deployment problem. In=20 > similar circumstantes, sometimes a higher order mechanism is needed=20 > for negotiation. Wants third option. > =20 > Gopal - Disagrees with James. We cannot control deployments. This is = > not 3GPP specific. >=20 > Thomas - should be careful about calling it an interop problem. Its=20 > not black or white. It might be that 3GPP2 wants to avoid the IPsec=20 > mechanism. There can be a cost with multiple mechanisms. >=20 > Eric Nordmark - unwise to have multiple mechanisms; we will have to=20 > implement both or circumstances will not work. Thinks that some=20 > assumptions are wrong. If we have multiple mechanisms, then we should = > have a good reason for this. >=20 > Basavaraj - saying that the HA will need to implement both, terminal=20 > will only need one. >=20 > Jari Arkko - it doesn't have to be a weaker option. interop issue -=20 > distintion is that 2 random nodes will authenticate to each other. >=20 > Pete McCann - this mechanism is needed to interface with existing=20 > credentials, removed IPsec from current architecture because IPsec /=20 > IKE v1 cannot interface with existing credentials >=20 > James - thinks we should go back to 3GPP2 and get them to find out=20 > about what is needed for IKEv2 >=20 > Someone - wonder if this could be handled in IPv6 host or MIPv6 host. >=20 > Pervez - only argument we have heard against this is interoperability. = > Don't we have rough consensus. >=20 > Thomas - we don't vote, some people are debating the validity of the=20 > consensus. >=20 > Pervez - from the business perspective, saying it won't interoperate=20 > isn't convincing. >=20 > Basavaraj - doesn't see the benefit of publishing this as info. >=20 > Greg Daley - tried to stay out of this discussion. Thinks we need=20 > encryption between the HA & MN, but how to get the key? Thinks we=20 > should work on this, doesn't care about the status of the document,=20 > but would like do work on this. We need an AS on this mechanism.=20 > Concerned that the Security Area will barf on this. >=20 > Thomas - 3GPP2 needs this soon, so we need to complete this. >=20 > Greg - then we need to get people involved in it. Concerned about=20 > there is no ESP here. Need a checklist for this. Need strong=20 > applicability statement on the features - multicast traffic might be=20 > spoofed, etc. >=20 > Gopal - if we do go info, we will have deployment, then future work > can be dependent on it. =20 >=20 > Thomas - thinks this will be an ongoing topic for discussion. >=20 > Pascal - thinks there is an impact on other MIP related topics. We=20 > will have 2 solutions on the handset. >=20 > Thomas=20 > How many people don't want it at all - noone > Do this as a standards track - 9 > Publish as informational - 30 >=20 > Greg Daily- Release this as an experimental doc, but work on it still. >=20 > Thomas Narten- reasonable to pub as info, but work on it still >=20 > Hesham - can't have a contract promising anything, shouldn't be a=20 > problem releasing it as info. >=20 > Thomas Narten - 3GPP2 would prefer standards track. >=20 > Pekka Savola - we cannot make a contract, publish as info/exp. because = > of timing requirements, and then analyze the problem more. >=20 >=20 > 3. IKEv2 on MIP6 (Vijay Devarapalli) > ------------------------------------- > I-D: draft-ietf-mip6-ikev2-ipsec-00.txt >=20 > RFC3776 describes IPsec on MIP6 > Changes in IPsec architecture (2401bis), and IKEv2 >=20 > - New draft to incorporate these changes > - SPD and SAD config and packet formats > - required processing steps on the MN and HA > - describes the use of IKEv2 >=20 > Key negotiation > - Manual keying must be supported > Dynamic keying though should be supported >=20 > Dynamic key shoud or may? >=20 > Comment - do you mean public key certificate? > - we have manual key for pre-shared key > Jari Arkko: The draft talks about how to use IKEv2 but this is=20 > optional- no need to support it. In that case there is no issue. >=20 > SPD config > New selectors > Mobility header msg type > ICMPv6 message type >=20 > If IPsec specifieds mobility header as a selector, then MIP6 should=20 > support it. >=20 > Question: How do you make interfaces of IKEv1 and IKEv2 work together = > in IPsec? Vijay - The new IPsec will not be interoperable with the=20 > older one Hesham Soliman - Are we going to step away from=20 > per-interface SPDs > Moving away from current interfaces is a good move.=20 > Vijay - We still need to distinguish payloads in different cases,=20 > tunnel, without tunnel etc. >=20 > PAD configuration > Peer auth data base provides a link bet key protocol and SPD >=20 > SAD config > Use of IKEv2 to negotiate keys > MN initiates IKEv2 exchange > Identity is included in IKE_AUTH >=20 > Use of EAP >=20 > - MN indicates it wants to use EAP by leaving IKE_AUTH field unfilled=20 > IKE_AUTH should be done after EAP exchange Issues > - takes 4 round trips instead of 2 > - Should work with other EAP and AAA-HA interface > - Should we say HA MUST/MAY require this interface? >=20 > Home address configuration: > Must or May ? > Jim Kempf - It should be "SHOULD" > Erik N. - It looks like a bootstrapping solution. It should be linked=20 > with bootstrap to have a single solution Jari Arkko - thinks=20 > bootstrapping support here is a good thing. >=20 > 4. Using IPsec to protect signaling between MN and CN (Francis Dupont) > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > I-D: draft-dupont-mipv6-cn-ipsec-01.txt >=20 > Presented at the last IETF > Idea : When you have IPsec bet, CN and MN, just use it Has some=20 > details in the doc what is suitable. You need SA between CN and MN=20 > etc. >=20 > Question: > - Should it be WG item ? >=20 > - Seperate doc for the cookie-based COA test? (optional) >=20 > - Implementations(already one, others?) >=20 > Vijay - Will support it to become WG doc >=20 > Jim Kempf - We should think about how it interacts with Mobike. > We should make this as wg draft. > Suresh - It should be a wg document >=20 > B Patil - Anyone has objection to make it wg doc ? If not we make it = > as wg doc No objection was raised at the meeting. >=20 > 4a: (Francis Dupont) > ------------------- > COA cookie test >=20 > - Initiated by CN , usable by CN which does not have built-in COA > test/trust > - A state cookie is used in order to avoid DOS attacks > - non-empty IANA consideration section >=20 > Next step: >=20 > Which RO protection mechanism do we need? >=20 > Vijay - it can be an optional care-of-addr test >=20 > WG item? More discussion needed before we make a wg doc. >=20 > Christian V: We had mailing list discussion but it modifies the way = base > spec does. > Jim Kempf - We should be more systematic in thinking about one = solution or > piecemeal soln >=20 > Erik - Don't see how we tie in with RO cookie test. > If the threat is third party bombing attack, then how does it = help? > What are the security requirements? >=20 > Jari - I'd rather have Charlie's draft do COA addr test. Also take a = look at > the draft we produced in Mobopts >=20 > 5. AAA AND MOBILE IPV6 (Giaretta Gerardo) > ----------------------------------------- > 5.1 I-D: draft-giaretta-mip6-aaa-ha-goals-00.txt &=20 > I-D: draft-yegin-mip6-aaa-fwk-00.txt =20 >=20 >=20 > Motivation: > Dynamic MIP6 conf > MN-HA sec association > AAA-HA interface > - Interface between AAA of the MSP and HA (HA is a kind of access=20 > server) >=20 > Basic security model >=20 > MN --------------------MSP AAA -----------------------HA >=20 > Usage scenario - bootstrapping directly with HA >=20 > MN -----NAS------AAA-MSP-----HA >=20 > Comment(Jee?)- Given EAP exchange is there any network access server? > We first need to have access through NAS then the second=20 > step Ans:It is a direct interaction with HA >=20 > Pete M : We can separate out network access from MIP access. We should = not > tie them together. >=20 > Usage scenario 2 >=20 > MN --- NAS--------AAA-MSP -------------HA > <-------piggybacked > MIp6 within > EAP -> <---AAA-HA ------> A) >=20 > <-- PANA, L2 > DHCP > extension->< RADIS/DIA-><---AAA-HA--> B) >=20 >=20 > Hesham - Make it generic > Comment - Focus should not only focus AAA-HA protocol, but > also NAS-MSP-AAA > Greg D - Did not read the draft. If you have security across > NAS, AAA-MSP, HA- Do you already have security association > between MSP and HA? >=20 > Hesham - This is a good way to use IPsec in MIP6 >=20 > James - This solution is not going to work if you don't have AAA=20 > infrastructure >=20 > Usage scenario3 > MN---------NAS_____________AAA-MSP -------HA=20 > <---AAA-HA---> > <--BU?-------> >=20 > Goals: > Security, Accounting etc. >=20 > Next steps > Should we identify a protocol that fulfil the goals? DIAMETER, RADIUS, = > SNMPv3 >=20 > Similar draft by Alper on AAA-HA interfaces - Raj has sent out the=20 > pointer to the slides. In the interest of time, the draft was not=20 > presented. Raj described briefly the highlights of Alpers I-D. >=20 > Hesham : What is the requirement? - Should the requirements go to AAA, = > midco m ? No reason to put requirement for midcom wg >=20 > James Kempf - likes this, would like to remind people that there are=20 > hotspots without link security and authenticates via web page. This=20 > solution won't work if you don't have a AAA infra. Should we work on=20 > this? >=20 > Hesham Soliman - what is the intention of this? >=20 > Basavaraj Patil - development requirements for AAA work. >=20 > 5.2 MIPV6 AUTHORIZATION AND CONFIGURATION BASED ON EAP =20 > ------------------------------------------------------ > I-D: draft-giaretta-mip6-authorization-eap-02.txt Giaretta Gerardo >=20 > someone - how to define aaa server between ha & aaa server? >=20 > Pasi Eronen - lots of info that would like to provision to user. EAP=20 > isn't the right approach. >=20 > Jari Arkko - agrees with Pasi. There are procedural issues as well as = > technical. This approach might not require AP changes, but changes to = > EAP methods. If you can re-use existing protocols, this is easier. If = > you want to use EAP for new purposes, this is harder. >=20 > James Kempf - would prefer to be minimalistic here. >=20 > Hesham Soliman - agree we need to draw a limit, but there are 3=20 > levels of auth typically. There is interest in leveraging AAA infra=20 > for this. Doesn't think this will change EAP much. >=20 > Next step > - Waiting for EAP wg feedback > - WG doc? >=20 > MN-HA Ipsec SA can be estblished from a shared secret using IKE with=20 > PSK auth EAP method can be used to exchange PSK >=20 > Jari A- There are some other requirements in EAP methods. >=20 > 5.3 APPLICATION MASTER SESSION KEY (AMSK) FOR MOBILE IPV6 > --------------------------------------------------------- > I-D: draft-giaretta-mip6-amsk-00.txt Giaretta Gerardo >=20 > Jari Arkko - question on changes to EAP framework. As a whole, there=20 > are more requirements than just on EAP methods, may be changing EAP=20 > API. >=20 > Hesham Soliman - does EAP SIM produce an AMSK? >=20 > Jari Arkko - I think so. >=20 > 6 DIAMETER MOBILE IPV6 BOOTSTRAPPING APPLICATION USING PANA > ----------------------------------------------------------- > I-D: draft-jee-mip6-bootstrap-pana-00.txt > I-D: draft-tschofenig-mip6-bootstrapping-pana-00.txt >=20 > Junghoon Jee, Hannes Tschofenig >=20 > PANA is used between MN and HA > Used to bootstrap mip6-auth >=20 > Pac << HA >=20 > Does wg think PANA is appropriate to deliver bootstrapping info ? >=20 > New DIAMETER bootstrapping scenario? >=20 > James K - PANA can work with EAP. Has a problem defining PANA to go=20 > beyond 1st hop link. ICMP often doesn't work after 1st hop. Yoshihiro=20 > Ohba - PANA is based on UDP James - OK, so I guess that is not a=20 > problem. >=20 > 7. MOBILE IPV6 BOOTSTRAPPING ARCHITECTURE USING DHCP =20 > ---------------------------------------------------- > I-D: draft-ohba-mip6-boot-arch-dhcp-00 Yoshihiro Ohba >=20 >=20 > Model 1 - DHCP server AAA-MS client > Model 2 - NAS as AAA-MS client >=20 > Draft describes how this arch map to bootstrapping scenario >=20 > James Kempf - Ralph Droms mentioned that backending DHCP server into=20 > AAA server is not a good idea. Same problem about NAS pushing stuff=20 > into DHCP server. OK to put Home Address into DHCP server. Concerned=20 > about the complications & bittleness of this. >=20 >=20 > 8. BOOTSTRAP CONTROL FUNCTION MECHANISM FOR MOBILE IPV6 BOOTSTRAP > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > I-D: draft-deng-mip6-bootstrap-bcf-00.txt Hui Deng > - Introduced new network element (BCF) >=20 > AAA ------- HA1 > | | > MN -----BCF -------- ---- HA2 > | > --------- HA3 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Discuss on list with rest of the bootstrapping stuff. Possible design=20 > team issue. >=20 > 9. PRECOMPUTABLE BINDING MANAGEMENT KEY KBM FOR MOBILE IPV6 > ----------------------------------------------------------- > I-D: draft-ietf-mip6-precfgkbm-01.txt > Vijay Devarapalli >=20 > - Proceed with this document. >=20 > 10. IMPROVEMENT OF RETURN ROUTABILITY PROTOCOL > ---------------------------------------------- > I-D: draft-qiu-mip6-rr-improvement-00.txt > Jianying ZHOU >=20 > DOS attack, session hijacking, movement halting attack Problem=20 > HOTI/COTI - independent of COA and HoA >=20 > use HOA in COTI and COA in HOTI for authentication and signals >=20 > Christian V.- Even if you combine the two, the attacker will have > ability to attack >=20 > Yes - but it is much more difficult, as it needs to know both addr >=20 > Erik - If we do this, we can't keep the same home keygen when COA=20 > changes >=20 > Jari - What's the point becuase the packets are flying by anyway and = has > same limitation that Erik mentioned >=20 > 11. Next steps for WG > --------------------- >=20 > - Bring closure to Auth and Identifier > - Taking transition problem as wg doc > - DT for bootstrapping > - Revise charter based on privacy bar bof >=20 >=20 _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Tue Dec 7 02:11:37 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA22344 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 2004 02:11:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CbZc6-0003Su-NE for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Dec 2004 02:18:23 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CbZTn-0002g5-O8; Tue, 07 Dec 2004 02:09:47 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CbZOo-0000W8-Om for mip6@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Dec 2004 02:04:39 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA15262 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 2004 02:04:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from email1.etri.re.kr ([129.254.16.131] helo=email1.etri.info) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CbZVH-0003J9-F9 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Dec 2004 02:11:22 -0500 Received: from ETRIYSLEE ([129.254.242.75]) by email1.etri.info with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Tue, 7 Dec 2004 16:04:22 +0900 Message-ID: <005401c4dc2a$f501a780$4bf2fe81@ETRIYSLEE> From: "Junghoon Jee" To: "James Kempf" , "Tschofenig Hannes" , References: <2A8DB02E3018D411901B009027FD3A3F0542C80A@mchp905a.mch.sbs.de> <014401c4dbc0$8a45cad0$5d6015ac@dcml.docomolabsusa.com> Subject: Re: [Mip6] New Draft with Bootstrapping Protocol Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 16:04:12 +0900 Organization: CMS MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Dec 2004 07:04:22.0698 (UTC) FILETIME=[FAC220A0:01C4DC2A] X-Spam-Score: 2.2 (++) X-Scan-Signature: f4c2cf0bccc868e4cc88dace71fb3f44 X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Junghoon Jee List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; 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charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 --===============0414917419==-- From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Tue Dec 7 04:06:42 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA03521 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 2004 04:06:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CbbPV-0005eL-6P for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Dec 2004 04:13:29 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CbbHQ-0007rA-Ct; Tue, 07 Dec 2004 04:05:08 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CbbEW-0007Rv-NZ for mip6@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Dec 2004 04:02:09 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA03296 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 2004 04:02:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from email1.etri.re.kr ([129.254.16.131] helo=email1.etri.info) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CbbL2-0005YW-Or for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Dec 2004 04:08:54 -0500 Received: from ETRIYSLEE ([129.254.242.75]) by email1.etri.info with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Tue, 7 Dec 2004 17:54:27 +0900 Message-ID: <00a401c4dc3a$558f3900$4bf2fe81@ETRIYSLEE> From: "Junghoon Jee" To: References: <697DAA22C5004B4596E033803A7CEF4403B1C270@daebe007.americas.nokia.com> Subject: Re: [Mip6] IETF61 WG meeting minutes (Draft) Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 17:54:17 +0900 Organization: CMS MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Dec 2004 08:54:27.0272 (UTC) FILETIME=[5B642480:01C4DC3A] X-Spam-Score: 2.2 (++) X-Scan-Signature: ffa9dfbbe7cc58b3fa6b8ae3e57b0aa3 X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Junghoon Jee List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1825141942==" Sender: mip6-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 2.2 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 4adaf050708fb13be3316a9eee889caa --===============1825141942== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGksIEJhc2F2YXJhaiwNCg0KUGx6IHNlZSBjb21tZW50cyBpbiBsaW5lLg0KDQp+fnNuaXB+fg0K DQo1LiBBQUEgQU5EIE1PQklMRSBJUFY2IChHaWFyZXR0YSBHZXJhcmRvKQ0KLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0NCjUuMSBJLUQ6IGRyYWZ0LWdpYXJldHRhLW1p cDYtYWFhLWhhLWdvYWxzLTAwLnR4dCAmIA0KSS1EOiBkcmFmdC15ZWdpbi1taXA2LWFhYS1md2st MDAudHh0ICAgIA0KDQoNCk1vdGl2YXRpb246DQpEeW5hbWljIE1JUDYgY29uZg0KTU4tSEEgc2Vj IGFzc29jaWF0aW9uDQpBQUEtSEEgaW50ZXJmYWNlDQotIEludGVyZmFjZSBiZXR3ZWVuIEFBQSBv ZiB0aGUgTVNQIGFuZCBIQSAoSEEgaXMgYSBraW5kIG9mIGFjY2VzcyBzZXJ2ZXIpDQoNCkJhc2lj IHNlY3VyaXR5IG1vZGVsDQoNCk1OIC0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tTVNQIEFBQSAtLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLUhBDQoNClVzYWdlIHNjZW5hcmlvIC0gYm9vdHN0cmFwcGluZyAgZGly ZWN0bHkgd2l0aCBIQQ0KDQpNTiAtLS0tLU5BUy0tLS0tLUFBQS1NU1AtLS0tLUhBDQoNCkNvbW1l bnQoSmVlPyktIEdpdmVuIEVBUCBleGNoYW5nZSBpcyB0aGVyZSBhbnkgbmV0d29yayBhY2Nlc3Mg c2VydmVyPw0KICAgICAgICAgIFdlIGZpcnN0IG5lZWQgdG8gaGF2ZSBhY2Nlc3MgdGhyb3VnaCBO QVMgdGhlbiB0aGUgc2Vjb25kIHN0ZXANCkFuczpJdCBpcyBhIGRpcmVjdCBpbnRlcmFjdGlvbiB3 aXRoIEhBDQoNCj0+IEplZS0+IEp1bmdob29uIF5eDQoNClBldGUgTSA6IFdlIGNhbiBzZXBhcmF0 ZSBvdXQgbmV0d29yayBhY2Nlc3MgZnJvbSBNSVAgYWNjZXNzLiBXZSBzaG91bGQgbm90DQogICAg ICAgICB0aWUgdGhlbSB0b2dldGhlci4NCg0KPT4gV2l0aCBteSBtZW1vcnksIGkgYW5zd2VyZWQg dG8gdGhpcy4NCkFucyhKdW5naG9vbikgOiBXaGF0IGlzIHRoZSBtZWFuaW5nIG9mIHBlcmZvcm1p bmcgSUtFdjIgYmVmb3JlIG5ldHdvcmsgYWNjZXNzIHNlcnZpY2UgPw0KICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgIElmIGEgTU4gY2FuIGFjY2VzcyhsaWtlLCBwZXJmb3JtaW5nIElLRXYyKSAgdGhl IHZpc3RlZCBkb21haW4gbmV0d29yayB3aXRob3V0IGdyYW50aW5nIHRoZSBuZXR3b3JrIGFjY2Vz cywNCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICBpdCBjYW4gcmVzdWx0IGluIGEgcG9zc2JpbGUg YXR0YWNrIHRvIHRoYXQgbmV0d29yay4NCg0KIA0KQmVzdCBSZWdhcmRzLA0KSnVuZ2hvb24NCg0K X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCk1pcDYgbWFp bGluZyBsaXN0DQpNaXA2QGlldGYub3JnDQpodHRwczovL3d3dzEuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9s aXN0aW5mby9taXA2 --===============1825141942== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 --===============1825141942==-- From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Tue Dec 7 06:07:07 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA12856 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 2004 06:07:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CbdI3-0008Dh-9a for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Dec 2004 06:13:56 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Cbd77-0008Uh-Jq; Tue, 07 Dec 2004 06:02:37 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CbcwT-0006nn-83 for mip6@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Dec 2004 05:51:37 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA11994 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 2004 05:51:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from laposte.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr ([192.44.77.17]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Cbd30-0007wX-4B for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Dec 2004 05:58:23 -0500 Received: from givry.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr (givry.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr [193.52.74.194]) by laposte.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr (8.11.6p2/8.11.6/2003.04.01) with ESMTP id iB7Aotw16718; Tue, 7 Dec 2004 11:50:55 +0100 Received: from givry.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr (localhost.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr [127.0.0.1]) by givry.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id iB7AotSj013185; Tue, 7 Dec 2004 11:50:55 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from dupont@givry.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr) Message-Id: <200412071050.iB7AotSj013185@givry.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr> From: Francis Dupont To: "Shinta Sugimoto (TO/NRJ)" Subject: Re: [Mip6] question: SA update in dynamic keying scenario In-reply-to: Your message of Sat, 27 Nov 2004 03:38:24 +0800. <7765A5A64EAAA4418C80C8AD0298CCF2197C0404@ejptont100.nrj.ericsson.se> Date: Tue, 07 Dec 2004 11:50:55 +0100 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-milter (http://amavis.org/) at enst-bretagne.fr X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 08170828343bcf1325e4a0fb4584481c Cc: "'mip6@ietf.org'" X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip6-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 79899194edc4f33a41f49410777972f8 In your previous mail you wrote: > With IKEv2 IPsec SAs are managed and the IKE SA should be long term so > K=1 is really needed (i.e., it is no more a marginal optimization). Could you please elaborate more on this ? Why K-bit becomes more important in IKEv2 ? => when the IKEv2 SA is closed all the IPsec SAs it has established are closed too, so to update the IPsec SAs makes sense only when the IKE SA is updated at the same time, i.e., when K=1. Regards Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Tue Dec 7 09:08:11 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA02126 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 2004 09:08:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Cbg7I-0004NB-Hd for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Dec 2004 09:15:01 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Cbft9-0000df-4k; Tue, 07 Dec 2004 09:00:23 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CbThA-0005vt-Ej; Mon, 06 Dec 2004 19:59:12 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA13978; Mon, 6 Dec 2004 19:59:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from mantis.cs.colorado.edu ([128.138.206.34]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CbTnc-0004Af-NZ; Mon, 06 Dec 2004 20:05:53 -0500 Received: from mantis.cs.colorado.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mantis.cs.colorado.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B7C0AC75C; Mon, 6 Dec 2004 17:57:49 -0700 (MST) X-Original-To: securecomm-cfp@mantis.cs.colorado.edu Delivered-To: securecomm-cfp@mantis.cs.colorado.edu Received: from research.cs.colorado.edu (research.cs.colorado.edu [128.138.242.225]) by mantis.cs.colorado.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36C49AC729 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 2004 17:25:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (admin-net-dhcp5.cs.colorado.edu [128.138.236.45]) by research.cs.colorado.edu (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id iB70PvJ0013678 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 2004 17:25:58 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <41B4F893.5040800@cs.colorado.edu> Date: Mon, 06 Dec 2004 17:25:55 -0700 From: Richard Han Organization: University of Colorado at Boulder User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040803 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: securecomm-cfp@mantis.cs.colorado.edu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 06 Dec 2004 17:57:46 -0700 X-BeenThere: securecomm-cfp@mantis.cs.colorado.edu X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Archive: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ccfb4541e989aa743998098cd315d0fd Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 07 Dec 2004 09:00:20 -0500 Subject: [Mip6] [Securecomm-cfp] SECURECOMM 2005 - Call For Papers X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip6-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 93df555cbdbcdae9621e5b95d44b301e Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Apologies if you receive multiple copies of this CFP. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- CALL FOR PAPERS SECURECOMM 2005 First International Conference on Security and Privacy for Emerging Areas in Communication Networks September 2005 Athens, Greece www.securecomm.org Co-Sponsored by: CreateNet (www.create-net.it) U.S. National Science Foundation (Travel Grants) PAPER SUBMISSION DEADLINE: Feb 21, 2005 Pending Technical Co-sponsorships from IEEE and ACM Societies ----------------------------------------------------------------------- SCOPE: The focus of this conference is two-fold: 1. Security and Privacy in wireless, mobile, ad hoc, sensor, personal-area and RFID networks 2. Security and Privacy in pervasive and ubiquitous computing The conference aims to bring together academic, industrial and government researchers, practitioners, standards developers and policy makers. Topics of interest include, but are not limited to: * Wireless Network Security (WiFi, WiMAX, WiMedia and others) * Sensor and Mobile Ad Hoc Network Security * Security of GSM/GPRS/UMTS systems * RFID security and privacy * Wireless Intrusion Detection Systems, tolerance and recovery * Firewalls and Application gateways for wireless/mobile networks and pervasive/ubiquitous computing * Public key infrastructures for wireless/mobile networks and pervasive/ubiquitous computing * Web Security, Authentication and Authorization in wireless/mobile networks and pervasive/ubiquitous computing * Privacy/Anonymity Preserving Design in wireless/mobile networks and pervasive/ubiquitous computing * E-commerce protocols and micropayment schemes * Secure Localization systems * Security in hybrid (e.g., wireline/wireless) networks PAPERS: Technical papers describing original unpublished research are solicited. Submissions must not exceed 10 pages in IEEE conference style, two-column format. Submissions must not be concurrently under review by a conference, journal or any other venue that has proceedings. All submissions will be refereed by the program committee. Papers that have a student as the primary author or first co-author will be considered for a best student paper award. Accepted papers of particular merit will be considered for a special issue of Springer International Journal of Information Security. SUBMISSION INSTRUCTIONS: Authors should prepare a PostScript or PDF version of their full paper. All submitted papers will be judged based on their quality through double-blind reviewing, where the identities of the authors are withheld from the reviewers. Authors' names must not appear in the paper or in the PostScript or PDF file. Complete paper submission instructions will be available at the conference website. The paper submission deadline is February 21, 2005. PANELS: Panels that examine innovative, controversial, or otherwise provocative issues of interest are solicited. Panel proposals should not exceed 3 pages, including biographical sketches of the panelists. Potential panel organizers should submit proposals to the Panels Co-Chairs by February 21, 2005. WORKSHOPS: Workshop proposals on topics related to the broader theme of the conference are solicited. Workshop proposals should not exceed 3 pages, including biographical sketches of the main organizers. Potential workshop organizers should submit proposals to the Workshops Co-Chairs by January 22, 2005. RESEARCH DEMOS: Informal proposals for research demos are solicited. Proposals will be reviewed and selection will be made based on the perceived value to the research community and interest level for the conference attendees. Proposals should not exceed 3 pages and should include: the focus area, technologies involved, specific equipment to be used, demo layout and space required. Please submit proposals to the Research Demos Chair(s) by February 21, 2005. Travel grants, sponsored by NSF, are available to partially support travel expenses for demo teams from US-based institutions. Student Travel Grants: Student Travel Grants, sponsored by the National Science Foundation, are available for graduate students studying at US universities. Details will be made available shortly. IMPORTANT DATES --------------- TECHNICAL Paper submissions due: February 21, 2005 NOTIFICATION date: April 20, 2005 Camera-ready version due: May 30, 2005 Conference Dates: Sep. 2005 For information regarding the conference, please visit http://www.securecomm.org or contact one of the Chairs below. CONFERENCE ORGANIZING COMMITTEE General Co-Chairs ----------------- Imrich Chlamtac, CreateNet Research Institute, imrich.chlamtac@create-net.it Krishna Sivalingam, University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC), krishna@umbc.edu General Vice-Chair ------------------ Bruno Crispo, Vrije Universiteit, Netherlands, crispo@few.vu.nl Technical Program Co-Chairs --------------------------- Dieter Gollmann, TU Hamburg-Harburg, diego@tu-harburg.de Li Gong, Sun Microsystems, Li.Gong@Sun.COM Gene Tsudik, UC Irvine, gts@ics.uci.edu Workshops Chair --------------- G. Manimaran, Iowa State University, gmani@iastate.edu Panels Co-Chairs ---------------- Peng Liu, Penn State University, pliu@ist.psu.edu Fabio Massacci, Univ. of Trento, fabio.massacci@unitn.it Research Demos/Exhibits Chair ----------------------------- John Hale, Univ. of Tulsa, john.hale@utulsa.edu Costa Cristina, Univ. of Trento, costac@dit.unitn.it Sponsorships Chair ------------------ Farooq Anjum, Telcordia Tech., fanjum@telcordia.com Local Arrangements Co-Chairs ---------------------------- Tassos Dimitriou, Athens Information Technology, tdim@ait.edu.gr Antonis Kalis, Athens Information Technology, akal@ait.edu.gr Publicity Co-Chairs ------------------- Haim Bar, ATC-NYCorp, haim@atc-nycorp.com Richard Han, Univ of Colorado, richard.han@colorado.edu Dimitrios Serpanos, Univ. of Patras, Greece, serpanos@ee.upatras.gr Publication Chair ----------------- Radha Poovendran, Univ. of Washington, radha@ee.washington.edu Student Travel Awards Chair --------------------------- Dapeng Wu, Univ. of Florida, wu@ece.ufl.edu Steering Committee Co-Chairs: ------------------------------ Imrich Chlamtac, CreateNet Research Institute Krishna Sivalingam, University of Maryland, Baltimore County (UMBC) _______________________________________________ Securecomm-cfp mailing list Securecomm-cfp@mantis.cs.colorado.edu http://mantis.cs.colorado.edu/mailman/listinfo/securecomm-cfp _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Tue Dec 7 09:08:17 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA02150 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 2004 09:08:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Cbg7B-0004Mk-V4 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Dec 2004 09:15:06 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Cbft8-0000dU-MA; Tue, 07 Dec 2004 09:00:22 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CbElc-0006nw-0I; Mon, 06 Dec 2004 04:02:48 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA15075; Mon, 6 Dec 2004 04:02:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.viamidia.net ([200.215.177.134] helo=mail.viamidia.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CbErl-0005FN-BZ; Mon, 06 Dec 2004 04:09:20 -0500 Received: from smtp.viamidia.com (smtp.viamidia.com [10.0.0.12]) by mail.viamidia.com (8.12.5/pre1.0-MySQL/8.12.8) with ESMTP id iB5NHPWi001208; Sun, 5 Dec 2004 21:17:26 -0200 (BRST) (envelope-from mirela@barddal.br) Received: from Mirela (201-002-231-099.fnsce7006.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br [201.2.231.99]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp.viamidia.com (8.12.8p2/8.12.8) with ESMTP id iB5NCWZN099270; Sun, 5 Dec 2004 21:17:24 -0200 (BRST) (envelope-from mirela@barddal.br) Message-ID: <001a01c4db20$a051ac40$6700a8c0@Mirela> From: "Mirela Sechi Moretti Annoni Notare" To: Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2004 20:15:12 -0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 87a3f533bb300b99e2a18357f3c1563d X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 07 Dec 2004 09:00:20 -0500 Subject: [Mip6] I2TS'2004 X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0302694566==" Sender: mip6-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 1449ead51a2ff026dcb23465f5379250 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============0302694566== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0295_01C4DB07.1FF65D70" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0295_01C4DB07.1FF65D70 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D CALL FOR PARTICIPATION 3rd International Information and Telecommunication Technology = Symposium Universidade Federal de S=E3o Carlos - UFSCar Biblioteca Comunit=E1ria - BCo Auditorium DECEMBER 6 to 9, 2004 http://www.dc.ufscar.br/i2ts2004/ We would like to invite you to participate in I2TS=B42004. I2TS'2004 serves as an international forum for people from academia, industry and research labs, for presenting recent research results in Information Technology Applications, and Telecommunication Systems. This year I2TS had 120 submitted papers (106 via EDAS and almost 20 sent = to us directly). 18 English papers and 10 Portuguese papers were accepted = as regular papers, what leads to an acceptance rate of about 22%. We also have received very good papers, which were accepted by the TPC = as good Short/Poster papers. We believe these papers will generate quite interesting discussion among the participants. Five tutorials will be offered: Large Scale Distributed Simulation - Prof. Azzedine = Boukerche-SITE/UOttawa (in English) Sensor Networks - Prof. Antonio Loureiro-DCC/UFMG (in Portuguese) Grid Computing - Prof. Mario Dantas-INF/UFSC (in Portuguese) Forensic Investigation of Jeopardized Sytems - Guilherme Venere-CAIS/RNP = (in Portuguese) Aspects of Wireless Network Security - Adriano Cansian-ACME/UNESP (in Portuguese) Panel: Novel Applications over High Speed Networks - The Tidia Project Workshop: Novel Applications over High Speed Networks (Kyatera and = Tidia-AE) See Technical Program at http://www.dc.ufscar.br/i2ts2004/ Registrations are active at http://www.dc.ufscar.br/i2ts2004/ General Chairs Prof. Dr. Azzedine Boukerche - Canada Research Chair - SITE/UOttawa Prof. Mirela S.M.A. Notare - Funda=E7=E3o Barddal Prof. Regina B. Araujo - DC/UFSCar ------=_NextPart_000_0295_01C4DB07.1FF65D70 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D


   &nbs= p;            = ;            =  =20 CALL FOR PARTICIPATION

 3rd International Information and=20 Telecommunication Technology=20 Symposium
          =      =20 Universidade Federal de S=E3o Carlos -=20 UFSCar
          &nb= sp;       =20 Biblioteca Comunit=E1ria - BCo=20 Auditorium

         &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;       =20 DECEMBER 6 to 9,=20 2004
           = ;            =  =20 http://www.dc.ufscar.br/i2ts20= 04/

We=20 would like to invite you to participate in I2TS=B42004.
I2TS'2004 = serves as an=20 international forum for people from academia,
industry and research = labs, for=20 presenting recent research results in
Information Technology = Applications,=20 and Telecommunication Systems.

This year I2TS had 120 submitted = papers=20 (106 via EDAS and almost 20 sent to
us directly). 18 English papers = and 10=20 Portuguese papers were accepted as
regular papers, what leads to an=20 acceptance rate of about 22%.

We also have received very good = papers,=20 which were accepted by the TPC as
good Short/Poster papers. We = believe these=20 papers will generate quite
interesting discussion among the=20 participants.

Five tutorials will be offered:
Large Scale = Distributed=20 Simulation - Prof. Azzedine Boukerche-SITE/UOttawa
(in = English)
Sensor=20 Networks - Prof. Antonio Loureiro-DCC/UFMG (in Portuguese)
Grid = Computing -=20 Prof. Mario Dantas-INF/UFSC (in Portuguese)
Forensic Investigation of = Jeopardized Sytems - Guilherme Venere-CAIS/RNP = (in
Portuguese)
Aspects of=20 Wireless Network Security - Adriano Cansian-ACME/UNESP=20 (in
Portuguese)

Panel: Novel Applications over High Speed = Networks -=20 The Tidia Project
Workshop: Novel Applications over High Speed = Networks=20 (Kyatera and Tidia-AE)

See Technical Program at http://www.dc.ufscar.br/i2ts20= 04/
Registrations=20 are active at http://www.dc.ufscar.br/i2ts20= 04/

General=20 Chairs
Prof. Dr. Azzedine Boukerche - Canada Research Chair -=20 SITE/UOttawa
Prof. Mirela S.M.A. Notare - Funda=E7=E3o = Barddal
Prof. Regina B.=20 Araujo - DC/UFSCar



------=_NextPart_000_0295_01C4DB07.1FF65D70-- --===============0302694566== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 --===============0302694566==-- From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Tue Dec 7 09:08:44 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA02194 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 2004 09:08:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Cbg7q-0004O5-6g for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Dec 2004 09:15:34 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Cbft9-0000dm-La; Tue, 07 Dec 2004 09:00:23 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CbWRJ-0000aR-CX; Mon, 06 Dec 2004 22:55:01 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA25844; Mon, 6 Dec 2004 22:54:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from ms-smtp-01.nyroc.rr.com ([24.24.2.55]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CbWXl-0007qC-B1; Mon, 06 Dec 2004 23:01:41 -0500 Received: from hpn307pc2 (roc-66-67-117-45.rochester.rr.com [66.67.117.45]) by ms-smtp-01.nyroc.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id iB73salT027628; Mon, 6 Dec 2004 22:54:36 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <033801c4dc10$7aaa8700$6501a8c0@hpn307pc2> From: "Wendi Heinzelman" To: "Wendi Heinzelman" Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 22:54:38 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: e1924de3f9fb68e58c31920136007eb1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 07 Dec 2004 09:00:20 -0500 Subject: [Mip6] MobiCom 2005 Call for Papers X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip6-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: f2728948111f2edaaf8980b5b9de55af Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ******************************************************************* Call for Papers 11th International Conference on Mobile Computing and Networking (ACM MobiCom 2005) August 28 - September 2, 2005 Cologne, Germany http://www.sigmobile.org/mobicom/2005/ ******************************************************************* ACM MobiCom 2005 is the eleventh in a series of annual conferences sponsored by ACM SIGMOBILE dedicated to addressing the challenges in the areas of mobile computing and networking. This highly selective, single-track conference serves as the premier international forum addressing networks, systems, algorithms, and applications that support the symbiosis of mobile computers and wireless networks. Papers Authors are invited to submit full papers presenting new research related to the theory or practice of mobile computing and networking with respect to topics above the physical layer. All submissions must describe original results that are not published nor currently under review by another conference or journal. Areas of interest include, but are not limited to: * Architectures, protocols, and algorithms to cope with mobility, limited bandwidth, or intermittent connectivity * Applications and services for mobile users * Distributed systems aspects of mobile computing * Mobile ad hoc and wireless sensor networks * Performance of mobile and wireless networks and systems * Wireless multimedia systems * Algorithms and protocols for power management and control * Implementations and experimental mobile systems * Integration and interworking of wired and wireless networks * Modeling and simulation aspects of mobile networks * Operating system and middleware support for mobile computing and networking * Security, privacy, and fault-tolerance of mobile/wireless systems * Service creation and management environments for mobile/wireless systems * Database and data management issues in mobile computing The program committee will referee all papers. Accepted papers will be published in the conference proceedings. Papers of particular merit will be proposed for publication in the ACM/Kluwer Wireless Networks (WINET) journal. Challenges Papers The conference strongly encourages the submission of short papers that challenge the research community with revolutionary new approaches, technologies, or applications in the field of mobile computing and wireless networking. These "challenge papers" should provide stimulating ideas or visions that may open up exciting avenues of far-reaching future research. Descriptions of new products or simple evolution of existing work are not appropriate. Challenges Papers will be reviewed and should be submitted using the same submission procedure as full papers. The title of such papers must start with the word "Challenges," i.e., "Challenges: `rest of the title'." Submission Instructions Papers must be no longer than 15 pages (5 pages for Challenges Papers), font size not smaller than 10 points, and must fit properly on U.S. "letter"-sized paper (8.5x11 inches) with reasonable margins. All paper submissions will be handled electronically. Authors should prepare a PDF or PostScript version. Detailed instructions for the paper submission procedure and format will be available on the conference web pages. The deadline for registering the title and the abstract of the paper with our electronic submission system is February 22, 2005, and the deadline for submitting the actual paper is March 1, 2005. All deadlines are 11:59 PM EST. All submitted papers will be judged based on their quality through a double-blind review process, where the identities of the authors are withheld from the reviewers. Authors should not be identifiable by any means from the paper or from the PDF or the Postscript file. Guidelines for preparing the paper for blind reviewing, as well as electronic paper submission instructions, will be available on the conference web pages. Submitted or substantially similar papers must not be currently under review for any other publication. Please direct any questions regarding paper submission to the Program Co-Chairs, Elizabeth Belding-Royer and Songwu Lu at mobicom_pcchairs @ acm.org. Tutorials Proposals for tutorials are solicited. Evaluation of tutorial proposals will be based on the expertise and experience of the instructors and on the relevance of the subject matter. Potential instructors are requested to submit a tutorial proposal of at most 5 pages, including a biographical sketch, to the Tutorial Chair Luca Salgarelli (luca.salgarelli at ing.unibs.it). The deadline for tutorial proposals is March 8, 2005. Panels Panel proposals are solicited that examine innovative, controversial, or otherwise provocative issues of interest. Panel proposals should not exceed 3 pages, including biographical sketches of the panelists. Potential panel organizers should contact the Panel Co-Chairs, Mario Gerla (gerla at cs.ucla.edu) and Jean-Pierre Hubaux (jean- pierre.hubaux at epfl.ch). The deadline for panel proposals is March 25, 2005. Research Demonstrations and Exhibits Proposals for research demos are strongly solicited. They should include a 3-page description of the demo and equipment to be used. Send proposals to the Research Demo Chair Dirk Westhoff (dirk.westhoff at netlab.nec.de) by June 13, 2005. We are also planning an Expo featuring exhibits of the latest mobile computing products and services. Student Poster Session Student posters are solicited that present recent and on-going research by students on mobile computing and mobile wireless networking. The poster submissions should include a 2-page description of the student's research. See above for paper formatting requirements. Accepted posters will be put on the conference web page; however, they will not be printed in the conference proceedings. Please send submissions to the Student Poster Chair Haiyun Luo (haiyun at cs.uiuc.edu). The deadline is June 20, 2005. Best Student Paper Award Papers with a student as a primary author will be considered for the Best Student Paper Award, with a cash award of 1000 US$. Students must indicate with their submission that they would like to be considered for this award. The student author of the awarded paper is expected to present the paper at the conference. Important Dates All deadlines are 11:59 PM EST. These are *firm* deadlines. Paper registration deadline: February 22, 2005 Paper submission deadline: March 1, 2005 Tutorial proposals due: March 8, 2005 Panel proposals due: March 25, 2005 Notification of acceptance: May 30, 2005 Camera-ready versions due: June 24, 2005 Demo proposals due: June 13, 2005 Student poster submissions due: June 20, 2005 For More Information For questions about the paper submission and review process, please contact the Program Co-Chairs at mobicom_pcchairs @ acm.org. For other questions or comments about the conference or for more information, please send email to mobicom_chairs @ acm.org. Organizing Committee General Co-Chairs Tom La Porta, Pennsylvania State University, USA Christoph Lindemann, University of Dortmund, Germany Program Co-Chairs Elizabeth Belding-Royer, UC, Santa Barbara, USA Songwu Lu, UCLA, USA Industrial Liaison Co-Chairs Volker Gruhn, University of Leipzig, Germany Venkat Padmanabhan, Microsoft Research, USA Finance Chair Guohong Cao, Pennsylvania State University, USA Registration Chair Sneha Kasera, University of Utah, USA Publicity Co-Chairs Christian Bettstetter, NTT DoCoMo, Germany Wendi Heinzelman, University of Rochester, USA Workshop Co-Chairs Suman Banerjee, University of Wisconsin, USA Martina Zitterbart, University of Karlsruhe, Germany Tutorial Chair Luca Salgarelli, University of Brescia, Italy Panels Co-Chairs Mario Gerla, UCLA, USA Jean-Pierre Hubaux, EPFL, Switzerland Research Demos Chair Dirk Westhoff, NEC Research Europe, Germany Student Poster Session Chair Haiyun Luo, U. of Illinois Urbana Champaign, USA Local Arrangement Chair Oliver Waldhorst, University of Dortmund, Germany Web Chair Lars Littig, University of Dortmund, Germany Steering Committee Chair Victor Bahl, Microsoft Research, USA ---------------------------------------------------------- Wendi B. Heinzelman Assistant Professor of Electrical and Computer Engineering University of Rochester P.O. Box 270126, Hopeman Building, Room 307 Rochester, NY 14627-0126 Phone: 585-275-4053 Fax: 585-273-4919 http://www.ece.rochester.edu/~wheinzel ---------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From wxlyqvjcnlu@hotmail.com Tue Dec 7 09:39:30 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA07124; Tue, 7 Dec 2004 09:39:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from host50.foretec.com ([65.246.255.50] helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Cbgbb-0005GH-AN; Tue, 07 Dec 2004 09:46:20 -0500 Received: from bfefc.b.pppool.de ([213.7.254.252] ident=jbh) by mx2.foretec.com with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1CbgUt-0001nS-8n; Tue, 07 Dec 2004 09:39:26 -0500 Received: from bridesmaid [142.134.216.216] (helo=indispose.counterpart.dearriba.com) by smtp2.cistron.nl with esmtp (attack 3.35 #1 (waterline)) id 218LFL-0010PT-80 Message-ID: <87540773144732.R37478@helena.noc.least.gr> Sender: freeradius-devel-wxlyqvjcnlu@hotmail.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Date: Tue, 07 Dec 2004 16:29:14 +0200 From: "Bruno Rich" To: midcom-request@ietf.org Cc: min@ietf.org, minutes@ietf.org, mip4@ietf.org, mip6@ietf.org, mip6-admin@ietf.org, mip6-request@ietf.org, mip6-web-archive@ietf.org Subject: Vallium and Cia|is 7o-% 0ff X-Spam-Score: 3.0 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 7655788c23eb79e336f5f8ba8bce7906 The L0west price of all med's is here. 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N0-re m0val are re'qui-red wuvpRhL60R79JAsKrFcvBAreLP8EBZ38nfC8UINYEphLelcfH6p From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Tue Dec 7 12:28:07 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA26980 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 2004 12:28:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CbjEf-0000yd-Gx for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Dec 2004 12:34:59 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Cbis1-0005gy-7K; Tue, 07 Dec 2004 12:11:25 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Cbich-0008Q3-0A for mip6@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Dec 2004 11:55:35 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA23421 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 2004 11:55:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from key1.docomolabs-usa.com ([216.98.102.225] helo=fridge.docomolabs-usa.com ident=fwuser) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CbijI-0000Ch-3k for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Dec 2004 12:02:24 -0500 Message-ID: <03e801c4dc7d$aad9f510$5d6015ac@dcml.docomolabsusa.com> From: "James Kempf" To: "Junghoon Jee" , "Tschofenig Hannes" , References: <2A8DB02E3018D411901B009027FD3A3F0542C80A@mchp905a.mch.sbs.de> <014401c4dbc0$8a45cad0$5d6015ac@dcml.docomolabsusa.com> <005401c4dc2a$f501a780$4bf2fe81@ETRIYSLEE> Subject: Re: [Mip6] New Draft with Bootstrapping Protocol Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 08:56:09 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: a1852b4f554b02e7e4548cc7928acc1f Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip6-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 93e7fb8fef2e780414389440f367c879 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Junghoon, I believe we agreed on the problem statement design team that the solution did not have to support an infrastructureless scenerio. The expectation in RFC 3775 is that the mobile terminal will have a prior relationship with the network provider hosting the home agent, in order that the terminal can be properly authenticated prior to establishing the IPsec security association (at the latest). In draft-chakrabarti-mip6-bmip-00.txt, the terminal is authenticated via an EAP transaction conducted as part of the IKEv2 exchange with the home agent to set up the IPsec SA. The home agent needs to have access to the terminal's previously recorded subscription information, this could be accomplished via an AAA back end transaction, as Alper pointed out, or by other means, perhaps a local database for a small mobility service provider (note: when the draft speaks about supporting network access when AAA is not used, it is only talking about the mobile terminal/access network to home network connection, not the back end in the home network). As for the need for IP service to provide Mobile IP service, one could say this about any IP-based service. I don't think it is an argument for always bundling network access and mobility service access. We discussed this extensively in the problem statement design team and decided that the separate network and mobility service provider case constituted a legitimate scenerio under RFC 3775 that we believed the bootstrapping solution should support. jak ----- Original Message ----- From: "Junghoon Jee" To: "James Kempf" ; "Tschofenig Hannes" ; Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 11:04 PM Subject: Re: [Mip6] New Draft with Bootstrapping Protocol > Hi ! James, > > As I already said in this MIP6 mailing-list thorough review of draft-ietf-mip6-bootstrap-ps-01.txt, > I think we have to decide what scenario our MIP6 bootstrapping solution should support. > > I havea question about this. > > Does our bootstrapping solution should consider infrastructure-less scenario or not ? > > For your convinence, > I attach my review of draft-ietf-mip6-bootstrap-ps-01.txt. > This can be helpful for our discussion. > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------- > Q1. Should the network access service be always performed when a MN bootstraps ? > > Section 6. Network Access and Mobility services > [Page 14] > Only having Mobile IPv6 service is not possible, since the Mobile IPv6 protocol requires > ability to send and receive IPv6 packets. > => It seems that network authentication service should be always performed. > > Section 7.1 Mobility Service Subscription Scenario > => There is no words about network authentication service. > > Q2. Does we have to consider the case of infrastructure-less scenario > when we develop a bootstrapping solution or not ? > > Section 7.4 Infrastructure-less scenario > [Page 17] > This specific scenario is not supported in this document. The reason > for this is described in Section 9. > > Section 9. Security Considerations > Thus, the case of infrastructure-less network where there is absolutely > no pre-mediated trust is kept outside of scope of this document. > > => It seems that we don't need to consider the infrastructure-less scenario > when we create a bootstrapping solution. > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------- > > Junghoon > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "James Kempf" > To: "Tschofenig Hannes" ; > Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 3:22 AM > Subject: Re: [Mip6] New Draft with Bootstrapping Protocol > > > > > > > > > > Yes, that's the idea. Most hotspots today in the US and some > > > > I've used in Europe and Japan don't use EAP. Also, there's > > > > the enterprise and nonintegrated mobility service provider > > > > examples. You'll recall that we discussed the nonintegrated > > > > case in the problem statement design team. An EAP on network > > > > entry bootstrapping approach won't work for that case. > > > > > > that's certainly true and also true for network access scenarios. the > > > drawbacks of these approaches are also known. i am, however, not quite > > sure > > > what you would like to standardize in this case. > > > > > > > A specified, interoperable way of doing HA configuration without AAA would, > > I think, be useful. As you mention, most of the rest can be handled by > > IKEv2. Perhaps actually writing down how to use IKEv2 for bootstrapping in > > this context would also be useful as an example, since the IKEv2 spec is 108 > > pages long, and Vijay's draft probably shouldn't go into bootstrapping in > > detail, since it needs to be applicable to both cases. > > > > jak > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Mip6 mailing list > > Mip6@ietf.org > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Tue Dec 7 14:45:28 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA12012 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 2004 14:45:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CblNi-0004Wx-Lu for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Dec 2004 14:52:21 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Cbl7r-0007gH-Pb; Tue, 07 Dec 2004 14:35:55 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Cbl2B-0005wi-FQ for mip6@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Dec 2004 14:30:03 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA10046 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 2004 14:30:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from dns2.tilab.com ([163.162.42.5]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Cbl8k-00043Q-Ku for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Dec 2004 14:36:54 -0500 Received: from iowa2k01b.cselt.it ([163.162.242.202]) by dns2.cselt.it (PMDF V6.1 #38895) with ESMTP id <0I8D00H419OJHC@dns2.cselt.it> for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Dec 2004 20:19:31 +0100 (MET) Received: from EXC01B.cselt.it ([163.162.4.199]) by iowa2k01b.cselt.it with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Tue, 07 Dec 2004 20:25:49 +0100 Date: Tue, 07 Dec 2004 20:27:15 +0100 From: Gerardo Giaretta Subject: RE: [Mip6] comments on chakrabarti-mip6-bmip To: Alper Yegin , James Kempf Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Importance: normal Priority: normal Thread-Topic: [Mip6] comments on chakrabarti-mip6-bmip thread-index: AcTb5/Xvqg9vnPekSnK9xMLe7WoX0wAqF7KA Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Dec 2004 19:25:49.0750 (UTC) FILETIME=[8F1B8D60:01C4DC92] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: b5d20af10c334b36874c0264b10f59f1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: mip6@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip6-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: cf3becbbd6d1a45acbe2ffd4ab88bdc2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi James, Alper, I would follow up Alper's comments regarding AAA interaction. This draft specifies a solution that could be very useful. In particular I think that the scenario described in section 2.3 (non integrated ASP scenario) is an important one and it has not been covered by bootstrapping solution proposals yet.=20 As Alper pointed out, in this scenario there could be a need for an interaction between the HA and the AAA infrastructure of the MSP that is only mentioned and not specified in the draft. Indeed, though it is true that a local database might be used for very small mobility service providers, in a real deployment scenario the MSP should exploit its AAA infrastructure to authorize and bootstrap MIPv6 service. In this case an interface between AAA and HA is needed.=20 Some goals for such an interface have been listed in draft-giaretta-mip6-aaa-ha-goals-00 (see in particular scenario 1). Based on these goals, I think we should investigate whether the EAP Diameter Application is suited for this scenario or whether it needs some extensions.=20 I think we also should investigate whether an unique interface can be designed for all bootstrapping scenarios (both MSP and integrated ASP scenarios) or not. --Gerardo > -----Original Message----- > From: mip6-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mip6-bounces@ietf.org] On=20 > Behalf Of Alper Yegin > Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 11:58 PM > To: mip6@ietf.org > Subject: [Mip6] comments on chakrabarti-mip6-bmip >=20 >=20 >=20 > Hello, >=20 > This is an interesting I-D for "discovering HA" part of MIP6 > bootstrapping problem. Instead of knowing a home subnet or IPv6 > addresses of home agents, knowing the domain name is=20 > sufficient to learn > HA addresses.=20 >=20 > I think for the "AAA" discussions, the document should clearly state > what AAA-enabled service is being addressed. The implicit=20 > assumption is > that it refers to "AAA for network access service". But in fact, there > is also "AAA for Mobile IPv6 service", and I'm not sure if a complete > solution can be developed without that. The I-D is not=20 > discussing how MN > is authenticated/authorized for the mobility service. >=20 > It is not likely that an HA learned via DNS would already have > authentication/authorization information for the MN. Hence, even a > DNS-learned HA is likely to rely on a MIP6-AAA application to > authenticate the MN. Please see draft-yegin-mip6-aaa-fwk-00.txt. And > (imho) real value of IKEv2 is that it allows use of EAP,=20 > which fits into > MN-HA-AAA model described in mip6-aaa-fwk I-D. Not a standard, but > products already assign IP addresses via IKEv1.=20 >=20 > Alper >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Mip6 mailing list > Mip6@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 >=20 Gruppo Telecom Italia - Direzione e coordinamento di Telecom Italia = S.p.A. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This message and its attachments are addressed solely to the persons above and may contain confidential information. If you have received the message in error, be informed that any use of the content hereof is prohibited. Please return it immediately to the sender and delete the message. Should you have any questions, please send an e_mail to MailAdmin@tilab.com. Thank you =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Tue Dec 7 15:08:00 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA14296 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 2004 15:08:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CbljX-00052Q-SK for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Dec 2004 15:14:53 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Cblay-0002mW-Vl; Tue, 07 Dec 2004 15:06:00 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CblNh-00035L-QY for mip6@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Dec 2004 14:52:18 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA12724 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 2004 14:52:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from key1.docomolabs-usa.com ([216.98.102.225] helo=fridge.docomolabs-usa.com ident=fwuser) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CblUJ-0004hg-0n for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Dec 2004 14:59:09 -0500 Message-ID: <043b01c4dc96$5942ed60$5d6015ac@dcml.docomolabsusa.com> From: "James Kempf" To: "Gerardo Giaretta" , "Alper Yegin" References: Subject: Re: [Mip6] comments on chakrabarti-mip6-bmip Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 11:52:50 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 39bd8f8cbb76cae18b7e23f7cf6b2b9f Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: mip6@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip6-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: a7d6aff76b15f3f56fcb94490e1052e4 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Gerardo, >As Alper pointed out, in this scenario there could be a need for an >interaction between the HA and the AAA infrastructure of the MSP that is >only mentioned and not specified in the draft. Indeed, though it is true >that a local database might be used for very small mobility service >providers, in a real deployment scenario the MSP should exploit its AAA >infrastructure to authorize and bootstrap MIPv6 service. In this case an >interface between AAA and HA is needed. >Some goals for such an interface have been listed in >draft-giaretta-mip6-aaa-ha-goals-00 (see in particular scenario 1). >Based on these goals, I think we should investigate whether the EAP >Diameter Application is suited for this scenario or whether it needs >some extensions. I agree. >I think we also should investigate whether an unique interface can be >designed for all bootstrapping scenarios (both MSP and integrated ASP >scenarios) or not. Well, without putting a lot of thought into it, I can't see any obvious reason why the same AAA interface shouldn't work for both integerated and nonintegrated scenerios. Any differences should involve various business rules, which should be encodable in the EAP method (for example, that an AKA/SIM key should be used, for a UMTS service provider that decides it also would like to offer MIPv6 service). However, I do believe the matter requires more thought. jak PS: BTW, I don't think we can simply assume that Diameter will be the only back end protocol used for AAA, I believe we also need to consider Radius, for reasons of its large installed base. _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Tue Dec 7 17:16:33 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA05959 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 2004 17:16:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Cbnjz-0002M7-Vm for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Dec 2004 17:23:28 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CbnP1-0005rl-9n; Tue, 07 Dec 2004 17:01:47 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Cbn7B-0005E0-JC for mip6@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Dec 2004 16:43:23 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA00043 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 2004 16:43:19 -0500 (EST) From: Basavaraj.Patil@nokia.com Received: from mgw-x2.nokia.com ([131.228.20.22]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CbnDo-0000X5-JO for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Dec 2004 16:50:13 -0500 Received: from esdks004.ntc.nokia.com (esdks004.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.138.159]) by mgw-x2.nokia.com (Switch-2.2.8/Switch-2.2.8) with ESMTP id iB7LhEF29813 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 2004 23:43:17 +0200 (EET) X-Scanned: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 23:42:58 +0200 Nokia Message Protector V1.3.31 2004060815 - RELEASE Received: (from root@localhost) by esdks004.ntc.nokia.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) id iB7LgwAT014212 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 2004 23:42:58 +0200 Received: from mgw-int2.ntc.nokia.com (172.21.143.97) by esdks004.ntc.nokia.com 009n6yEx; Tue, 07 Dec 2004 23:42:56 EET Received: from daebh002.NOE.Nokia.com (daebh002.americas.nokia.com [10.241.35.122]) by mgw-int2.ntc.nokia.com (Switch-2.2.8/Switch-2.2.8) with ESMTP id iB7LgtS21205 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 2004 23:42:55 +0200 (EET) Received: from daebe007.NOE.Nokia.com ([10.241.35.107]) by daebh002.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6881); Tue, 7 Dec 2004 15:42:38 -0600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 15:42:37 -0600 Message-ID: <697DAA22C5004B4596E033803A7CEF4403B1C291@daebe007.americas.nokia.com> Thread-Topic: Revised minutes of IETF61 WG meeting Thread-Index: AcTcpanfZWnT+5nnQcOZXWt7O2/7OA== To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Dec 2004 21:42:38.0110 (UTC) FILETIME=[ABABE3E0:01C4DCA5] X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Scan-Signature: c07eeb7900970a16fe4056cc74ae9ce2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [Mip6] Revised minutes of IETF61 WG meeting X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip6-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 6f51ba5266426a53fc06c7d32a3c18b6 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Minutes of MIP6 WG meeting -------------------------- IETF61, Washington DC Nov 12th, Friday 2004 9 AM - 1130 AM Chairs: Basavaraj Patil and Gopal Dometty Minutes provided by: Samita Chakrabarti and John Loughney=20 1. Agenda bashing and WG doc status update ------------------------------------------- - MIPv6 Socket API - completed last call - now on AD review - Firewall issues I-D completed LC - MIP6 MIB status: MIBdoctor pass1 completed; pass2 ongoing - TAHI test suite will release version 3.0 in December which is fully compliant with RFC3775/3776 URL: http://www.tahi.org/mipv6/ 2. Auth I-D discussion ---------------------- A consensus call on standardizing this I-D was held on the WG ML. Chairs believe consensus was to progress the I-D as a proposed standard. An issue tracker for the I-D has been created. Comments are welcome. Thomas Narten: There is an appeal to the Consensus call result now.=20 Consensus was rough, nice if it was clearer. We don't formally vote. Packing the room is something to look for, but lurkers can be informed / posters can be uninformed.=20 Counting company votes is dangerous. =20 Question / choices: 1. Do not publish at all - has consequences for the relevance of the = IETF 2. Publish on standards track - sends signal that this has IETF support 3. Publish as info - Does get IETF review & has been done in other cases, e.g. - 3GPP=20 James K - has interoperability concerns, but if just for 3GPP2, then its OK. 3GPP2 has come to the IETF, so we should do it. Concerned about standards track, because it might cause interoperability issues due to multiple mechanisms. Would like MIP community to work better with 3GPP2.=20 Thomas Narten - we've had a relationship for 3 years with 3GPP and have engineer to engineer working, agrees that would be nice to have with 3GPP2.=20 Basavaraj - disagrees that there will be interop problems. People who want to deploy it are from 3gpp2, but could have wider possibly applicability. Haven't heard about what the concerns of folks who don't want this work to be standardized.=20 Pervez Yegani - 3GPP2 needs this work, working with Thomas on liason statement. Doesn't see an interop issue.=20 James K - Explained twice already. IETF can specify two mechanisms, but operator can deploy just one. If you have a terminal that supports both mechanisms, it may be confused which one can be used. Problem is a deployment.=20 Hesham - it's not an interop problem but a deployment problem. In similar circumstantes, sometimes a higher order mechanism is needed for negotiation. Wants third option.=20 =20 Gopal - Disagrees with James. We cannot control deployments. This is not 3GPP specific.=20 Thomas - should be careful about calling it an interop problem. Its not black or white. It might be that 3GPP2 wants to avoid the IPsec mechanism. There can be a cost with multiple mechanisms.=20 Eric Nordmark - unwise to have multiple mechanisms; we will have to implement both or circumstances will not work. Thinks that some assumptions are wrong. If we have multiple mechanisms, then we should have a good reason for this.=20 Basavaraj - saying that the HA will need to implement both, terminal will only need one.=20 Jari Arkko - it doesn't have to be a weaker option. interop issue - distintion is that 2 random nodes will authenticate to each other.=20 Pete McCann - this mechanism is needed to interface with existing credentials, removed IPsec from current architecture because IPsec / IKE v1 cannot interface with existing credentials=20 James - thinks we should go back to 3GPP2 and get them to find out about what is needed for IKEv2=20 Someone - wonder if this could be handled in IPv6 host or MIPv6 host. Pervez - only argument we have heard against this is interoperability. Don't we have rough consensus.=20 Thomas - we don't vote, some people are debating the validity of the consensus.=20 Pervez - from the business perspective, saying it won't interoperate isn't convincing.=20 Basavaraj - doesn't see the benefit of publishing this as info. Greg Daley - tried to stay out of this discussion. Thinks we need encryption between the HA & MN, but how to get the key? Thinks we should work on this, doesn't care about the status of the document, but would like do work on this. We need an AS on this mechanism. Concerned that the Security Area will barf on this.=20 Thomas - 3GPP2 needs this soon, so we need to complete this. Greg - then we need to get people involved in it. Concerned about there is no ESP here. Need a checklist for this. Need strong applicability statement on the features - multicast traffic might be spoofed, etc.=20 Gopal - if we do go info, we will have deployment, then future work can be dependent on it. =20 Thomas - thinks this will be an ongoing topic for discussion. Pascal - thinks there is an impact on other MIP related topics. We will have 2 solutions on the handset.=20 Thomas=20 How many people don't want it at all - noone Do this as a standards track - 9 Publish as informational - 30 Greg Daily- Release this as an experimental doc, but work on it still. Thomas Narten- reasonable to pub as info, but work on it still Hesham - can't have a contract promising anything, shouldn't be a problem releasing it as info. =20 Thomas Narten - 3GPP2 would prefer standards track. Pekka Savola - we cannot make a contract, publish as info/exp. because of timing requirements, and then analyze the problem more.=20 3. IKEv2 on MIP6 (Vijay Devarapalli) ------------------------------------- I-D: draft-ietf-mip6-ikev2-ipsec-00.txt RFC3776 describes IPsec on MIP6 Changes in IPsec architecture (2401bis), and IKEv2=20 - New draft to incorporate these changes - SPD and SAD config and packet formats - required processing steps on the MN and HA - describes the use of IKEv2 Key negotiation - Manual keying must be supported Dynamic keying though should be supported Dynamic key shoud or may? Comment - do you mean public key certificate? - we have manual key for pre-shared key Jari Arkko: The draft talks about how to use IKEv2 but this is optional- = no need to support it. In that case there is no issue. SPD config New selectors Mobility header msg type ICMPv6 message type If IPsec specifieds mobility header as a selector, then MIP6 should support it.=20 Question: How do you make interfaces of IKEv1 and IKEv2 work together in IPsec?=20 Vijay - The new IPsec will not be interoperable with the older one Hesham Soliman - Are we going to step away from per-interface SPDs Moving away from current interfaces is a good move. Vijay - We still need to distinguish payloads in different cases, tunnel, without tunnel etc. PAD configuration Peer auth data base provides a link bet key protocol and SPD SAD config Use of IKEv2 to negotiate keys MN initiates IKEv2 exchange Identity is included in IKE_AUTH Use of EAP - MN indicates it wants to use EAP by leaving IKE_AUTH field unfilled IKE_AUTH should be done after EAP exchange Issues - takes 4 round trips instead of 2 - Should work with other EAP and AAA-HA interface - Should we say HA MUST/MAY require this interface? Home address configuration: Must or May ? Jim Kempf - It should be "SHOULD" Erik N. - It looks like a bootstrapping solution. It should be linked with bootstrap to have a single solution Jari Arkko - thinks bootstrapping support here is a good thing. 4. Using IPsec to protect signaling between MN and CN (Francis Dupont) =20 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I-D: draft-dupont-mipv6-cn-ipsec-01.txt Presented at the last IETF Idea : When you have IPsec bet, CN and MN, just use it Has some details in the doc what is suitable. You need SA between CN and MN etc. Question: - Should it be WG item ? - Seperate doc for the cookie-based COA test? (optional) - Implementations(already one, others?) Vijay - Will support it to become WG doc Jim Kempf - We should think about how it interacts with Mobike. We should make this as wg draft. Suresh - It should be a wg document B Patil - Anyone has objection to make it wg doc ? If not we make it as wg doc No objection was raised at the meeting. 4a: (Francis Dupont) ------------------- COA cookie test - Initiated by CN , usable by CN which does not have built-in COA test/trust=20 - A state cookie is used in order to avoid DOS attacks - non-empty IANA consideration section Next step: Which RO protection mechanism do we need? Vijay - it can be an optional care-of-addr test WG item? More discussion needed before we make a wg doc. Christian V: We had mailing list discussion but it modifies the way base spec does. Jim Kempf - We should be more systematic in thinking about one solution = or piecemeal soln Erik - Don't see how we tie in with RO cookie test. If the threat is third party bombing attack, then how does it = help? What are the security requirements? Jari - I'd rather have Charlie's draft do COA addr test. Also take a = look at the draft we produced in Mobopts 5. AAA AND MOBILE IPV6 (Giaretta Gerardo) ----------------------------------------- 5.1 I-D: draft-giaretta-mip6-aaa-ha-goals-00.txt &=20 I-D: draft-yegin-mip6-aaa-fwk-00.txt =20 Motivation: Dynamic MIP6 conf MN-HA sec association AAA-HA interface - Interface between AAA of the MSP and HA (HA is a kind of access = server) Basic security model MN --------------------MSP AAA -----------------------HA Usage scenario - bootstrapping directly with HA MN -----NAS------AAA-MSP-----HA Junghoon - Given EAP exchange is there any network access server? We first need to have access through NAS then the second step Ans:It is a direct interaction with HA Pete M : We can separate out network access from MIP access. We should = not tie them together. Junghoon : What is the meaning of performing IKEv2 before network access service ? If a MN can access(like, performing IKEv2) the visted domain network without granting the network access, it can result in a possbile attack to that network. Usage scenario 2 MN --- NAS--------AAA-MSP -------------HA <-------piggybacked MIp6 within EAP -> <---AAA-HA ------> A) <-- PANA, L2 DHCP extension->< RADIS/DIA-><---AAA-HA--> B) Hesham - Make it generic Comment - Focus should not only focus AAA-HA protocol, but also NAS-MSP-AAA Greg D - Did not read the draft. If you have security across NAS, AAA-MSP, HA- Do you already have security association between MSP and HA? Hesham - This is a good way to use IPsec in MIP6 James - This solution is not going to work if you don't have AAA infrastructure=20 Usage scenario3 MN---------NAS_____________AAA-MSP -------HA <---AAA-HA---> <--BU?-------> Goals: Security, Accounting etc. Next steps Should we identify a protocol that fulfil the goals? DIAMETER, RADIUS, SNMPv3 Similar draft by Alper on AAA-HA interfaces - Raj has sent out the pointer to the slides. In the interest of time, the draft was not presented. Raj described briefly the highlights of Alpers I-D. Hesham : What is the requirement? - Should the requirements go to AAA, = midco m ? No reason to put requirement for midcom wg James Kempf - likes this, would like to remind people that there are hotspots without link security and authenticates via web page. This solution won't work if you don't have a AAA infra.=20 Should we work on this? Hesham Soliman - what is the intention of this? Basavaraj Patil - development requirements for AAA work. 5.2 MIPV6 AUTHORIZATION AND CONFIGURATION BASED ON EAP =20 ------------------------------------------------------ I-D: draft-giaretta-mip6-authorization-eap-02.txt Giaretta Gerardo someone - how to define aaa server between ha & aaa server? Pasi Eronen - lots of info that would like to provision to user. EAP isn't the right approach.=20 Jari Arkko - agrees with Pasi. There are procedural issues as well as technical. This approach might not require AP changes, but changes to EAP methods. If you can re-use existing protocols, this is easier. If you want to use EAP for new purposes, this is harder.=20 James Kempf - would prefer to be minimalistic here. Hesham Soliman - agree we need to draw a limit, but there are 3 levels of auth typically. There is interest in leveraging AAA infra for this. Doesn't think this will change EAP much.=20 Next step - Waiting for EAP wg feedback - WG doc? MN-HA Ipsec SA can be estblished from a shared secret using IKE with PSK = auth EAP method can be used to exchange PSK Jari A- There are some other requirements in EAP methods. 5.3 APPLICATION MASTER SESSION KEY (AMSK) FOR MOBILE IPV6 =20 --------------------------------------------------------- I-D: draft-giaretta-mip6-amsk-00.txt Giaretta Gerardo Jari Arkko - question on changes to EAP framework. As a whole, there are more requirements than just on EAP methods, may be changing EAP API.=20 Hesham Soliman - does EAP SIM produce an AMSK? Jari Arkko - I think so. 6 DIAMETER MOBILE IPV6 BOOTSTRAPPING APPLICATION USING PANA =20 ----------------------------------------------------------- I-D: draft-jee-mip6-bootstrap-pana-00.txt I-D: draft-tschofenig-mip6-bootstrapping-pana-00.txt Junghoon Jee, Hannes Tschofenig PANA is used between MN and HA Used to bootstrap mip6-auth Pac << HA Does wg think PANA is appropriate to deliver bootstrapping info ? New DIAMETER bootstrapping scenario? James K - PANA can work with EAP. Has a problem defining PANA to go beyond 1st hop link. ICMP often doesn't work after 1st hop. Yoshihiro Ohba - PANA is based on UDP James - OK, so I guess that is not a problem. 7. MOBILE IPV6 BOOTSTRAPPING ARCHITECTURE USING DHCP =20 ---------------------------------------------------- I-D: draft-ohba-mip6-boot-arch-dhcp-00 Yoshihiro Ohba Model 1 - DHCP server AAA-MS client Model 2 - NAS as AAA-MS client Draft describes how this arch map to bootstrapping scenario James Kempf - Ralph Droms mentioned that backending DHCP server into AAA server is not a good idea. Same problem about NAS pushing stuff into DHCP server. OK to put Home Address into DHCP server. Concerned about the complications & bittleness of this.=20 8. BOOTSTRAP CONTROL FUNCTION MECHANISM FOR MOBILE IPV6 BOOTSTRAP ----------------------------------------------------------------- I-D: draft-deng-mip6-bootstrap-bcf-00.txt Hui Deng - Introduced new network element (BCF) AAA ------- HA1 | | MN -----BCF -------- ---- HA2 | --------- HA3 Discuss on list with rest of the bootstrapping stuff. Possible design team issue.=20 9. PRECOMPUTABLE BINDING MANAGEMENT KEY KBM FOR MOBILE IPV6 ----------------------------------------------------------- I-D: draft-ietf-mip6-precfgkbm-01.txt Vijay Devarapalli - Proceed with this document. 10. IMPROVEMENT OF RETURN ROUTABILITY PROTOCOL ---------------------------------------------- I-D: draft-qiu-mip6-rr-improvement-00.txt Jianying ZHOU DOS attack, session hijacking, movement halting attack Problem HOTI/COTI - independent of COA and HoA use HOA in COTI and COA in HOTI for authentication and signals Christian V.- Even if you combine the two, the attacker will have ability to attack Yes - but it is much more difficult, as it needs to know both addr Erik - If we do this, we can't keep the same home keygen when COA = changes Jari - What's the point becuase the packets are flying by anyway and has same limitation that Erik mentioned 11. Next steps for WG --------------------- - Bring closure to Auth and Identifier - Taking transition problem as wg doc - DT for bootstrapping - Revise charter based on privacy bar bof 12. Multihoming in MIP6 ----------------------- Thierry Ernst I-Ds: draft-montavont-mobileip-multihoming-pb-statement-02.txt draft-ernst-generic-goals-and-benefits-00.txt Motivation for multihoming Applied to fixed hosts, mobile hosts and routers Seeking sense from the room Shall we include support multiple interfaces in MIP6 WG ? Thomas Narten: A problem statement for multihoming is required first. Multi-homing working group is working on different issues - so the problem statement document would indicate the non-mobility cases and carefully consider the mobility cases. Once we identify those, we can then consider whether and what this group needs to address. Gabriel: I have a question: if you are going to characterize the multihoming problem then are you also going to consider the case in which you have multiple IPv4 as well as multiple IPv6 addresses? Will get hairy, but at least mentioning might be in order.=20 13. Load Balance for Distributed Home Agents in Mobile IPv6 ---------------------------------------------------------- I-D: draft-deng-mip6-ha-loadbalance-02.txt Hui Deng Loadalancing for MIP6 was presented. The question to the WG is whether loadbalancing is a problem that needs to be tackled in this WG. _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Tue Dec 7 19:55:49 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA23264 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 2004 19:55:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CbqE8-0006FQ-2h for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Dec 2004 20:02:44 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Cbq3j-0000WX-2l; Tue, 07 Dec 2004 19:51:59 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Cbq1P-000846-JA for mip6@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Dec 2004 19:49:37 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA22767 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 2004 19:49:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailout2.samsung.com ([203.254.224.25]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Cbq84-00065t-Uj for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Dec 2004 19:56:29 -0500 Received: from custom-daemon.mailout2.samsung.com by mailout2.samsung.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.17 (built Jun 23 2003)) id <0I8D0087AOJ45B@mailout2.samsung.com> for mip6@ietf.org; Wed, 08 Dec 2004 09:40:16 +0900 (KST) Received: from ep_mmp1 (mailout2.samsung.com [203.254.224.25]) by mailout2.samsung.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.17 (built Jun 23 2003)) with ESMTP id <0I8D008YNOGW3I@mailout2.samsung.com> for mip6@ietf.org; Wed, 08 Dec 2004 09:38:57 +0900 (KST) Received: from Alperyegin ([105.144.29.41]) by mmp1.samsung.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 Patch 2 (built Jul 14 2004)) with ESMTPA id <0I8D00BTWOGU0I@mmp1.samsung.com> for mip6@ietf.org; Wed, 08 Dec 2004 09:38:56 +0900 (KST) Date: Tue, 07 Dec 2004 16:38:42 -0800 From: Alper Yegin Subject: RE: [Mip6] comments on chakrabarti-mip6-bmip In-reply-to: To: "'Gerardo Giaretta'" , "'James Kempf'" Message-id: <000d01c4dcbe$46319cd0$291d9069@sisa.samsung.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: de4f315c9369b71d7dd5909b42224370 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Cc: mip6@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip6-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 798b2e660f1819ae38035ac1d8d5e3ab Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT > Based on these goals, I think we should investigate whether the EAP > Diameter Application is suited for this scenario or whether it needs > some extensions. I strongly think it is the latter, because: The new AAA application is required to associate a given authorization and accounting to the Mobile IPv6 service. When a AAA client contacts a AAA server, it should be able to convey that the request is for Mobile IPv6 service, as opposed to any other services (network access, SIP, etc.). Additionally, service authorization should take into account parameters like home address and binding lifetime, which are specific to a Mobile IPv6 service. Alper _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Tue Dec 7 21:53:53 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA04046 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 2004 21:53:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Cbs4P-0000dN-Sp for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Dec 2004 22:00:50 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Cbrwx-000377-Do; Tue, 07 Dec 2004 21:53:07 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Cbrvq-0002xC-LZ for mip6@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Dec 2004 21:51:58 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA03993 for ; Tue, 7 Dec 2004 21:51:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from email1.etri.re.kr ([129.254.16.131] helo=email1.etri.info) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Cbs2W-0000bD-OE for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Dec 2004 21:58:53 -0500 Received: from ETRIYSLEE ([129.254.242.75]) by email1.etri.info with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Wed, 8 Dec 2004 11:51:48 +0900 Message-ID: <004001c4dcd0$d819bc10$4bf2fe81@ETRIYSLEE> From: "Junghoon Jee" To: "James Kempf" , References: <2A8DB02E3018D411901B009027FD3A3F0542C80A@mchp905a.mch.sbs.de> <014401c4dbc0$8a45cad0$5d6015ac@dcml.docomolabsusa.com> <005401c4dc2a$f501a780$4bf2fe81@ETRIYSLEE> <03e801c4dc7d$aad9f510$5d6015ac@dcml.docomolabsusa.com> Subject: Re: [Mip6] New Draft with Bootstrapping Protocol Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 11:51:40 +0900 Organization: CMS MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Dec 2004 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SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Wed, 8 Dec 2004 13:24:44 +0900 Message-ID: <005e01c4dcdd$d3e8d0b0$4bf2fe81@ETRIYSLEE> From: "Junghoon Jee" To: "Alper Yegin" , "'Gerardo Giaretta'" , "'James Kempf'" References: <000d01c4dcbe$46319cd0$291d9069@sisa.samsung.com> Subject: Re: [Mip6] comments on chakrabarti-mip6-bmip Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 13:24:37 +0900 Organization: CMS MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Dec 2004 04:24:44.0673 (UTC) FILETIME=[D8393F10:01C4DCDD] X-Spam-Score: 2.2 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 2409bba43e9c8d580670fda8b695204a Cc: mip6@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Junghoon Jee List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0356169348==" Sender: mip6-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: 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with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Cc53o-0001ZG-2C; Wed, 08 Dec 2004 11:53:04 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Cc4uW-0007ic-DW for mip6@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 08 Dec 2004 11:43:28 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA12898 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 2004 11:43:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from key1.docomolabs-usa.com ([216.98.102.225] helo=fridge.docomolabs-usa.com ident=fwuser) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Cc51J-0001oJ-Bq for mip6@ietf.org; Wed, 08 Dec 2004 11:50:30 -0500 Message-ID: <055201c4dd45$2b543f80$5d6015ac@dcml.docomolabsusa.com> From: "James Kempf" To: "Junghoon Jee" , References: <2A8DB02E3018D411901B009027FD3A3F0542C80A@mchp905a.mch.sbs.de> <014401c4dbc0$8a45cad0$5d6015ac@dcml.docomolabsusa.com> <005401c4dc2a$f501a780$4bf2fe81@ETRIYSLEE> <03e801c4dc7d$aad9f510$5d6015ac@dcml.docomolabsusa.com> <004001c4dcd0$d819bc10$4bf2fe81@ETRIYSLEE> Subject: Re: [Mip6] New Draft with Bootstrapping Protocol Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 08:44:15 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0fa76816851382eb71b0a882ccdc29ac Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip6-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: b280b4db656c3ca28dd62e5e0b03daa8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Junghoon, > Thank you for answering my question. > If the bootstrapping solution need not support the infrastructure-less scenario, why does your approach, > draft-chakrabarti-mip6-bmip-00.txt emphasize the pros. of it by mentioning that you don't need AAA infrastructure ? > Regarding your abstract, > Though you say that your mechanism is applicable in general at the end of the abstract, > after reading all of abstarct section, i conclude that your mechanism has a benefit of > supporting MIP6 bootstrapping without need of AAA infrastructure. > > Anyway, I think MIP6 bootstrapping solution need a 3rd party trusted entity, because > bootstrapping information is a very sensitve information that should be protected. > I think that adopting AAA server as a trusted entity to support MIP6 bootstrapping is a right choice. > My interpretation of "infrastructure" here, based on my memory of the design team discussion, is different from yours. I don't believe the design team and problem statement draft meant to confine the solution to a scenario where AAA is required between the host and the access network for initial network access. This would shut out 90% of the worldwide hotspot service providers, who today use UAM for access, from using bootstrapping for Mobile IPv6, to say nothing of the many enterprise and small business network providers who don't use AAA for network access. I believe infrastructure refers to back end infrastructure, defined as a mechanisms for verifying a pre-existing subscriber relationship between the network operator owning the HA and the owner of the terminal, which could include backend AAA between the HA and the subscriber database. The solution outlined in draft-chakrabarti requires some kind of subscriber relationship in order for the EAPoIKEv2 transaction to complete. In that sense, it satisfies the requirement for backend infrastructure. Perhaps we need to be more specific in the draft about what is meant by not requiring AAA. But your comments do raise another interesting point. Is the problem statement draft specific enough on this point, or does it need some modification to make this clearer? What do other people think? > In my opinion, the Mobile IP service is an IP-based service. So only authenticated and authorizaed > MN can access the network and can use the Mobile IP service. > If we decouple the network access service from mobility serivice, unauthorized MN can access the visited domain's network. > > Related with this, draft-ietf-mip6-bootstrap-ps-01.txt has a following statement. > Section 6. Network Access and Mobility services > [Page 14] > Only having Mobile IPv6 service is not possible, since the Mobile IPv6 protocol requires ability to send and receive IPv6 packets. > In draft-chakrabarti, a mobile terminal must have credentials preconfigured so that it can complete a EAPoIKEv2 transaction with the HA. The HA uses the credentials to authenticate the mobile terminal against the subscriber database, and to determine whether the mobile terminal is authorized for mobility service. It is entirely possible that a mobile terminal may be authorized for network access but not for mobility service. In such a case, an attempt by the mobile terminal to obtain initial network access will succeed, but an attempt to complete the IKEv2 transaction with the HA will fail and the mobile terminal will be unable to obtain mobility service. The reverse case - where the mobile terminal fails to obtain network access due to lack of authorization but achieves authorization for mobility service - is not possible, since, as you point out, the terminal must have IP service in order to achieve Mobile IP service. Thus, it is not possible for an unauthorized terminal to obtain mobility service, or network access service. jak _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 8 20:03:00 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA01713 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 2004 20:03:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CcCoq-0007Ng-H7 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 08 Dec 2004 20:10:09 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CcCgC-0007A0-DD; Wed, 08 Dec 2004 20:01:12 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CcCez-0006RG-0H for mip6@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 08 Dec 2004 19:59:58 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA01512 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 2004 19:59:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from email1.etri.re.kr ([129.254.16.131] helo=email1.etri.info) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CcClq-0007I9-3z for mip6@ietf.org; Wed, 08 Dec 2004 20:07:03 -0500 Received: from ETRIYSLEE ([129.254.242.75]) by email1.etri.info with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Thu, 9 Dec 2004 09:59:45 +0900 Message-ID: <002101c4dd8a$52826880$4bf2fe81@ETRIYSLEE> From: "Junghoon Jee" To: "James Kempf" , References: <2A8DB02E3018D411901B009027FD3A3F0542C80A@mchp905a.mch.sbs.de> <014401c4dbc0$8a45cad0$5d6015ac@dcml.docomolabsusa.com> <005401c4dc2a$f501a780$4bf2fe81@ETRIYSLEE> <03e801c4dc7d$aad9f510$5d6015ac@dcml.docomolabsusa.com> <004001c4dcd0$d819bc10$4bf2fe81@ETRIYSLEE> <055201c4dd45$2b543f80$5d6015ac@dcml.docomolabsusa.com> Subject: Re: [Mip6] New Draft with Bootstrapping Protocol Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 09:59:23 +0900 Organization: CMS MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Dec 2004 00:59:45.0877 (UTC) FILETIME=[5FFBA850:01C4DD8A] X-Spam-Score: 2.2 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 8b431ad66d60be2d47c7bfeb879db82c X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Junghoon Jee List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; 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charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 --===============1118752388==-- From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Thu Dec 9 01:56:30 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA11114 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 2004 01:56:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CcIKy-00065Q-R6 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Dec 2004 02:03:41 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CcI9R-0008Fy-Cr; Thu, 09 Dec 2004 01:51:45 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CcI5b-0007QW-Qz for mip6@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 09 Dec 2004 01:47:48 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA10613 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 2004 01:47:47 -0500 (EST) From: john.loughney@nokia.com Received: from mgw-x4.nokia.com ([131.228.20.27]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CcICT-0005va-E6 for mip6@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Dec 2004 01:54:57 -0500 Received: from esdks001.ntc.nokia.com (esdks001.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.138.120]) by mgw-x4.nokia.com (Switch-2.2.8/Switch-2.2.8) with ESMTP id iB96lbS10585; Thu, 9 Dec 2004 08:47:37 +0200 (EET) X-Scanned: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 08:49:30 +0200 Nokia Message Protector V1.3.31 2004060815 - RELEASE Received: (from root@localhost) by esdks001.ntc.nokia.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) id iB96nUku017388; Thu, 9 Dec 2004 08:49:30 +0200 Received: from mgw-int2.ntc.nokia.com (172.21.143.97) by esdks001.ntc.nokia.com 00mCIhwX; Thu, 09 Dec 2004 08:49:29 EET Received: from esebh002.NOE.Nokia.com (esebh002.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.138.77]) by mgw-int2.ntc.nokia.com (Switch-2.2.8/Switch-2.2.8) with ESMTP id iB96ioS13256; Thu, 9 Dec 2004 08:44:50 +0200 (EET) Received: from esebe016.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.21.138.55]) by esebh002.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6881); Thu, 9 Dec 2004 08:44:49 +0200 Received: from esebe056.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.21.143.51]) by esebe016.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6881); Thu, 9 Dec 2004 08:44:49 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6603.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [Mip6] New Draft with Bootstrapping Protocol Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 08:44:49 +0200 Message-ID: <3CF661B1787ABF41A869BE20108F8D6D432374@esebe056.ntc.nokia.com> Thread-Topic: [Mip6] New Draft with Bootstrapping Protocol Thread-Index: AcTdR+ObubWSo5NFTCSgPFGsL5DjpAAces/Q To: , , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Dec 2004 06:44:49.0537 (UTC) FILETIME=[94537710:01C4DDBA] X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8b30eb7682a596edff707698f4a80f7d Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip6-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 21c69d3cfc2dd19218717dbe1d974352 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable James, > My interpretation of "infrastructure" here, based on my memory of the = design > team discussion, is different from yours. I don't believe the design = team > and problem statement draft meant to confine the solution to a = scenario > where AAA is required between the host and the access network for = initial > network access. This would shut out 90% of the worldwide hotspot = service > providers, who today use UAM for access, from using bootstrapping for = Mobile > IPv6, to say nothing of the many enterprise and small business network > providers who don't use AAA for network access.=20 About enterprise & small business networks. I think that 90% might not = be exactly accurate. It depends upon what we are discussing. Any = enterprise using dialup is using RADIUS for authentication. For internal = connectivity, most are using DHCP for bootstrapping, but in most cases there is some = user login & password needed, quite often with a RADIUS server somewhere in = the network. My view on this discussion is that use of RADIUS and Diameter is not = overly burdensome, but we should have a bootstrapping framework that would support other = mechanisms. I'm not so sure in how much detail we need to go into these other = mechansims, because there are alot of proprietary solutions out there. Just my 2 cents. John _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Thu Dec 9 06:19:43 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA13403 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 2004 06:19:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CcMRl-0002hA-OJ for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Dec 2004 06:26:58 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CcMHz-0005sE-VE; Thu, 09 Dec 2004 06:16:51 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CcMCR-0003Il-T6 for mip6@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 09 Dec 2004 06:11:08 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA12659 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 2004 06:11:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp2.int-evry.fr ([157.159.10.45]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CcMJO-0002Ug-Vq for mip6@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Dec 2004 06:18:20 -0500 Received: from ipv6-5.int-evry.fr (ipv6-5.int-evry.fr [157.159.100.78]) by smtp2.int-evry.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE9BB30953; Thu, 9 Dec 2004 12:10:25 +0100 (CET) Received: from jb by ipv6-5.int-evry.fr with local (Exim id 1CcMA6-0007Us-0d; Thu, 09 Dec 2004 12:08:42 +0100 Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 12:08:41 +0100 From: Julien Bournelle To: Junghoon Jee Subject: Re: [Mip6] comments on chakrabarti-mip6-bmip Message-ID: <20041209110841.GG10306@ipv6-5.int-evry.fr> References: <000d01c4dcbe$46319cd0$291d9069@sisa.samsung.com> <005e01c4dcdd$d3e8d0b0$4bf2fe81@ETRIYSLEE> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <005e01c4dcdd$d3e8d0b0$4bf2fe81@ETRIYSLEE> X-INT-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-INT-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-INT-MailScanner-SpamCheck: n'est pas un polluriel, SpamAssassin (score=-5.838, requis 4.5, autolearn=not spam, ALL_TRUSTED -3.30, AWL 0.06, BAYES_00 -2.60) X-MailScanner-From: jb@ipv6-5.int-evry.fr X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0bc60ec82efc80c84b8d02f4b0e4de22 Cc: Alper Yegin , "'Gerardo Giaretta'" , "'James Kempf'" , mip6@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip6-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: b19722fc8d3865b147c75ae2495625f2 Hi all, On Wed, Dec 08, 2004 at 01:24:37PM +0900, Junghoon Jee wrote: > I agree with Alper. > We need a new AAA Application to support MIP6 bootstrapping. I would like to add that we have different options for this: - use EAP to carry Mobile IPv6 parameters as defined in (can be used with Diameter-EAP/RADIUS-EAP) - define a new Diameter application for Mobile IPv6 draft-dupont-aaa-mipv6-01.txt (obsoloted) (can't be used with EAP) - modify Diameter-EAP (basically add AVPs to carry Mobile IPv6 Parameters + interaction with HA) I think that we could have 2 solutions for bootstrapping Mobile IPv6: - one based on AAA infrastructure - one that could be used without AAA -- julien.bournelle@int-evry.fr _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Thu Dec 9 06:50:42 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA15376 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 2004 06:50:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CcMvl-0003ET-2n for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Dec 2004 06:57:57 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CcMk8-0002xZ-G2; Thu, 09 Dec 2004 06:45:56 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CcMgq-0002D5-1Y for mip6@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 09 Dec 2004 06:42:32 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA14922 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 2004 06:42:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from motgate5.mot.com ([144.189.100.105]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CcMnn-00035v-Qi for mip6@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Dec 2004 06:49:44 -0500 Received: from az33exr01.mot.com (az33exr01.mot.com [10.64.251.231]) by motgate5.mot.com (8.12.11/Motgate5) with ESMTP id iB9BhvD1002774; Thu, 9 Dec 2004 04:43:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from zfr01srv02.crm.mot.com (zfr01srv02.crm.mot.com [10.161.201.8]) by az33exr01.mot.com (Motorola/az33exr01) with ESMTP id iB9BefHG013222; Thu, 9 Dec 2004 05:40:42 -0600 Received: from [10.161.201.117] (zfr01-2117.crm.mot.com [10.161.201.117]) by zfr01srv02.crm.mot.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C07758859AC; Thu, 9 Dec 2004 12:41:58 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <41B83A05.6060304@motorola.com> Date: Thu, 09 Dec 2004 12:41:57 +0100 From: Alexandru Petrescu User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040803 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: James Kempf Subject: Re: [Mip6] New Draft with Bootstrapping Protocol References: <2A8DB02E3018D411901B009027FD3A3F0542C806@mchp905a.mch.sbs.de> <011601c4dbbc$a8318a10$5d6015ac@dcml.docomolabsusa.com> In-Reply-To: <011601c4dbbc$a8318a10$5d6015ac@dcml.docomolabsusa.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.89.0.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 856eb5f76e7a34990d1d457d8e8e5b7f Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: mip6@ietf.org, Tschofenig Hannes X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip6-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7655788c23eb79e336f5f8ba8bce7906 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit James Kempf wrote: > Yes, that's the idea. Most hotspots today in the US and some I've > used in Europe and Japan don't use EAP. Me too. But. Connecting a v6/v4 laptop to a completely v4 hotspot has no implications from the hotspot using or not using EAP. What's sure is in this way the v6 part of the laptop will most certainly _not_ use EAP, regardless of the v4 hotspot using or not using EAP. This is so because EAP is bound to L2 and a v6 laptop over that v4 hotspot has no L2 for that v6 (it's a tunnel). So I somehow agree with your thinking. Also, if anyone is aware of any v6 native hotspot area commercial service for public (or in trial period in perspective of selling to public), please let me know; I only know about such v4 spots. Alex _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Thu Dec 9 08:45:31 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA21955 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 2004 08:45:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CcOir-0005NS-N2 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Dec 2004 08:52:46 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CcOXH-0000y7-7K; Thu, 09 Dec 2004 08:40:47 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CcOSG-00007V-GK for mip6@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 09 Dec 2004 08:35:36 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA21175 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 2004 08:35:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from dns2.tilab.com ([163.162.42.5]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CcOZ5-00057H-7C for mip6@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Dec 2004 08:42:50 -0500 Received: from iowa2k01b.cselt.it ([163.162.242.202]) by dns2.cselt.it (PMDF V6.1 #38895) with ESMTP id <0I8G00F27ILL5M@dns2.cselt.it> for mip6@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Dec 2004 14:24:57 +0100 (MET) Received: from EXC01B.cselt.it ([163.162.4.199]) by iowa2k01b.cselt.it with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Thu, 09 Dec 2004 14:31:16 +0100 Date: Thu, 09 Dec 2004 14:32:40 +0100 From: Gerardo Giaretta Subject: RE: [Mip6] New Draft with Bootstrapping Protocol To: Junghoon Jee Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Importance: normal Priority: normal Thread-Topic: [Mip6] New Draft with Bootstrapping Protocol thread-index: AcTc0R+KkhrwaTwaSWGb7tYHLww1JgBH46jQ Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Dec 2004 13:31:16.0218 (UTC) FILETIME=[5BEBADA0:01C4DDF3] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 202a3ece0492a8c7e7c8672d5214398f Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: mip6@ietf.org, James Kempf X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip6-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 2bf730a014b318fd3efd65b39b48818c Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Junghoon, ~snip~ >=20 > Could you give me information about discussions and the=20 > decision of the problem statement design team ? >=20 if interested, you can find the archives of Bootstrapping PS Design Team Discussion at http://vesuvio.ipv6.tilab.com/pipermail/mip6-boot/ Regards, --Gerardo > In my opinion, the Mobile IP service is an IP-based service.=20 > So only authenticated and authorizaed > MN can access the network and can use the Mobile IP service.=20 > If we decouple the network access service from mobility=20 > serivice, unauthorized MN can access the visited domain's network. >=20 > Related with this, draft-ietf-mip6-bootstrap-ps-01.txt has a=20 > following statement. > Section 6. Network Access and Mobility services > [Page 14] > Only having Mobile IPv6 service is not possible, since the=20 > Mobile IPv6 protocol requires ability to send and receive=20 > IPv6 packets. >=20 >=20 > Junghoon >=20 > > jak > >=20 > >=20 > > ----- Original Message -----=20 > > From: "Junghoon Jee" > > To: "James Kempf" ; "Tschofenig Hannes" > > ; > > Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 11:04 PM > > Subject: Re: [Mip6] New Draft with Bootstrapping Protocol > >=20 > >=20 > > > Hi ! James, > > > > > > As I already said in this MIP6 mailing-list thorough review of > > draft-ietf-mip6-bootstrap-ps-01.txt, > > > I think we have to decide what scenario our MIP6=20 > bootstrapping solution > > should support. > > > > > > I havea question about this. > > > > > > Does our bootstrapping solution should consider=20 > infrastructure-less > > scenario or not ? > > > > > > For your convinence, > > > I attach my review of draft-ietf-mip6-bootstrap-ps-01.txt. > > > This can be helpful for our discussion. > > >=20 > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------ > > -------------------- > > > Q1. Should the network access service be always performed=20 > when a MN > > bootstraps ? > > > > > > Section 6. Network Access and Mobility services > > > [Page 14] > > > Only having Mobile IPv6 service is not possible, since=20 > the Mobile IPv6 > > protocol requires > > > ability to send and receive IPv6 packets. > > > =3D> It seems that network authentication service should be always > > performed. > > > > > > Section 7.1 Mobility Service Subscription Scenario > > > =3D> There is no words about network authentication service. > > > > > > Q2. Does we have to consider the case of =20 > infrastructure-less scenario > > > when we develop a bootstrapping solution or not ? > > > > > > Section 7.4 Infrastructure-less scenario > > > [Page 17] > > > This specific scenario is not supported in this document.=20 > The reason > > > for this is described in Section 9. > > > > > > Section 9. Security Considerations > > > Thus, the case of infrastructure-less network where there=20 > is absolutely > > > no pre-mediated trust is kept outside of scope of this document. > > > > > > =3D> It seems that we don't need to consider the = infrastructure-less > > scenario > > > when we create a bootstrapping solution. > > >=20 > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------ > > --------------- > > > > > > Junghoon > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----=20 > > > From: "James Kempf" > > > To: "Tschofenig Hannes" ;=20 > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 3:22 AM > > > Subject: Re: [Mip6] New Draft with Bootstrapping Protocol > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, that's the idea. Most hotspots today in the US and some > > > > > > I've used in Europe and Japan don't use EAP. Also, there's > > > > > > the enterprise and nonintegrated mobility service provider > > > > > > examples. You'll recall that we discussed the nonintegrated > > > > > > case in the problem statement design team. An EAP on network > > > > > > entry bootstrapping approach won't work for that case. > > > > > > > > > > that's certainly true and also true for network=20 > access scenarios. the > > > > > drawbacks of these approaches are also known. i am,=20 > however, not quite > > > > sure > > > > > what you would like to standardize in this case. > > > > > > > > > > > > > A specified, interoperable way of doing HA=20 > configuration without AAA > > would, > > > > I think, be useful. As you mention, most of the rest=20 > can be handled by > > > > IKEv2. Perhaps actually writing down how to use IKEv2=20 > for bootstrapping > > in > > > > this context would also be useful as an example, since=20 > the IKEv2 spec is > > 108 > > > > pages long, and Vijay's draft probably shouldn't go=20 > into bootstrapping > > in > > > > detail, since it needs to be applicable to both cases. > > > > > > > > jak > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Mip6 mailing list > > > > Mip6@ietf.org > > > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 > >=20 > > >=20 Gruppo Telecom Italia - Direzione e coordinamento di Telecom Italia = S.p.A. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This message and its attachments are addressed solely to the persons above and may contain confidential information. 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Thank you =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Thu Dec 9 10:24:06 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA00293 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 2004 10:24:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CcQGG-0007Q3-V5 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Dec 2004 10:31:22 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CcQ4I-000852-Oa; Thu, 09 Dec 2004 10:18:58 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CcPz6-0005P3-Iw for mip6@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 09 Dec 2004 10:13:36 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA28497 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 2004 10:13:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from key1.docomolabs-usa.com ([216.98.102.225] helo=fridge.docomolabs-usa.com ident=fwuser) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CcQ65-00072F-KG for mip6@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Dec 2004 10:20:51 -0500 Message-ID: <06d701c4de01$c78df780$5d6015ac@dcml.docomolabsusa.com> From: "James Kempf" To: "Junghoon Jee" , References: <2A8DB02E3018D411901B009027FD3A3F0542C80A@mchp905a.mch.sbs.de> <014401c4dbc0$8a45cad0$5d6015ac@dcml.docomolabsusa.com> <005401c4dc2a$f501a780$4bf2fe81@ETRIYSLEE> <03e801c4dc7d$aad9f510$5d6015ac@dcml.docomolabsusa.com> <004001c4dcd0$d819bc10$4bf2fe81@ETRIYSLEE> <055201c4dd45$2b543f80$5d6015ac@dcml.docomolabsusa.com> <002101c4dd8a$52826880$4bf2fe81@ETRIYSLEE> Subject: Re: [Mip6] New Draft with Bootstrapping Protocol Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 07:14:21 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 79899194edc4f33a41f49410777972f8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip6-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9182cfff02fae4f1b6e9349e01d62f32 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > If AAA is not used to provide a MN with the network access service, > is there any other standardized or popular way to do this ? > See http://www.wifialliance.org/opensection/downloads/wispr_v1.0.pdf. This is used by most hotspot service providers. > Right, > If the network access service should be always performed before or simultaneously with mobility service, > is the initial network access service for a bootstrapping MN required or not ? > The MN must have network access to achieve mobility service access. But authorization for the two does not have to be coupled. jak _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Thu Dec 9 10:32:05 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA01482 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 2004 10:32:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CcQO1-0007dq-9o for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Dec 2004 10:39:21 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CcQCq-0003Kh-4H; Thu, 09 Dec 2004 10:27:48 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CcQCB-00030g-Eh for mip6@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 09 Dec 2004 10:27:07 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA00797 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 2004 10:27:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from key1.docomolabs-usa.com ([216.98.102.225] helo=fridge.docomolabs-usa.com ident=fwuser) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CcQJB-0007UZ-Ck for mip6@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Dec 2004 10:34:21 -0500 Message-ID: <071601c4de03$abb5c0e0$5d6015ac@dcml.docomolabsusa.com> From: "James Kempf" To: , , References: <3CF661B1787ABF41A869BE20108F8D6D432374@esebe056.ntc.nokia.com> Subject: Re: [Mip6] New Draft with Bootstrapping Protocol Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 07:27:55 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7655788c23eb79e336f5f8ba8bce7906 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip6-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0bc60ec82efc80c84b8d02f4b0e4de22 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John, >About enterprise & small business networks. I think that 90% might not be >exactly accurate. It depends upon what we are discussing. Any enterprise The 90% was intended to mean hotspot networks, not enterprise networks. >using dialup is using RADIUS for authentication. For internal connectivity, >most are using DHCP for bootstrapping, but in most cases there is some user >login & password needed, quite often with a RADIUS server somewhere in the network. Yes, but if they are using a roaming broker such as iPass, they might not deploy RADIUS themselves. Thus, they might not have access to the RADIUS infrastructure. If they want to install a couple of access points for local use, they shouldn't have to go to their roaming broker. Small and medium sized businesses use this model. jak _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Thu Dec 9 10:53:07 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA03583 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 2004 10:53:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CcQiM-00084U-QO for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Dec 2004 11:00:24 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CcQZx-00083I-1G; Thu, 09 Dec 2004 10:51:41 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CcQUH-0006j8-3c for mip6@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 09 Dec 2004 10:45:49 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA02870 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 2004 10:45:47 -0500 (EST) From: john.loughney@nokia.com Received: from mgw-x4.nokia.com ([131.228.20.27]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CcQbH-0007ug-FY for mip6@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Dec 2004 10:53:03 -0500 Received: from esdks004.ntc.nokia.com (esdks004.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.138.159]) by mgw-x4.nokia.com (Switch-2.2.8/Switch-2.2.8) with ESMTP id iB9FjfS12847; Thu, 9 Dec 2004 17:45:42 +0200 (EET) X-Scanned: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 17:40:25 +0200 Nokia Message Protector V1.3.31 2004060815 - RELEASE Received: (from root@localhost) by esdks004.ntc.nokia.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) id iB9FeP9A027389; Thu, 9 Dec 2004 17:40:25 +0200 Received: from mgw-int2.ntc.nokia.com (172.21.143.97) by esdks004.ntc.nokia.com 00eaLYmy; Thu, 09 Dec 2004 17:38:56 EET Received: from esebh001.NOE.Nokia.com (esebh001.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.138.28]) by mgw-int2.ntc.nokia.com (Switch-2.2.8/Switch-2.2.8) with ESMTP id iB9FcuS28226; Thu, 9 Dec 2004 17:38:56 +0200 (EET) Received: from esebe001.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.21.138.30]) by esebh001.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6881); Thu, 9 Dec 2004 17:38:56 +0200 Received: from esebe056.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.21.143.51]) by esebe001.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6881); Thu, 9 Dec 2004 17:38:55 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6603.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [Mip6] New Draft with Bootstrapping Protocol Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 17:38:17 +0200 Message-ID: <3CF661B1787ABF41A869BE20108F8D6D4323A5@esebe056.ntc.nokia.com> Thread-Topic: [Mip6] New Draft with Bootstrapping Protocol Thread-Index: AcTeA++NvceKfPUjTGWeJMhpGWjWzAAAFZrw To: , , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Dec 2004 15:38:55.0461 (UTC) FILETIME=[312F6950:01C4DE05] X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 3e15cc4fdc61d7bce84032741d11c8e5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip6-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Scan-Signature: f607d15ccc2bc4eaf3ade8ffa8af02a0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi James, > >About enterprise & small business networks. I think that 90% might = not be > >exactly accurate. It depends upon what we are discussing. Any = enterprise >=20 > The 90% was intended to mean hotspot networks, not enterprise=20 > networks. Ack, but I'd like to think that WLAN roaming is still in its infancy. = What is done today certainly will not be what is done in the future. =20 > >using dialup is using RADIUS for authentication. For internal = connectivity, > >most are using DHCP for bootstrapping, but in most cases there is = some user > >login & password needed, quite often with a RADIUS server somewhere = in the network. >=20 > Yes, but if they are using a roaming broker such as iPass, they might = not > deploy RADIUS themselves. Thus, they might not have access to the = RADIUS > infrastructure. If they want to install a couple of access points for = local > use, they shouldn't have to go to their roaming broker. Small and = medium > sized businesses use this model. Hmm, I'd have to chew on this. What scenario are you saying that - an = enterprise might 'buy' IPASS accounts for its workers, and expect that IPASS provide = bootstrapping to get the employee's device up and running? I could imagine that IPASS would = provide a service for mobile workers with this kind of 'customized' service, if it was not = too difficult to deploy. Essentially IPASS would host this service. From what I = understand that IPASS & Boingo are currently doing, its not outside of the realm of = possibilities. However, if you are thinking of a small firm deploying WLAN APs inside = an office, I still think that office will want some sort of user name / password with some = sort of acccess control. A roaming broker isn't needed, but some sort of server, RADIUS = seems likely, to provide this would be reasonable. Is there a different model you had in mind? John _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Thu Dec 9 10:55:50 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA03808 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 2004 10:55:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CcQl1-00088f-2I for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Dec 2004 11:03:07 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CcQa0-00084j-DL; Thu, 09 Dec 2004 10:51:44 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CcQWJ-0007Ea-9j for mip6@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 09 Dec 2004 10:47:55 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA03074 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 2004 10:47:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from relay1.mail.vrmd.de ([81.28.232.18]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CcQdJ-0007xA-Kf for mip6@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Dec 2004 10:55:10 -0500 Received: from [195.14.217.7] (helo=[195.14.217.7]) by vm8.bln2.vrmd.de with asmtp (Exim 4.41) id 1CcQVd-0006eR-4w for mip6@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Dec 2004 16:47:13 +0100 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) In-Reply-To: <071601c4de03$abb5c0e0$5d6015ac@dcml.docomolabsusa.com> References: <3CF661B1787ABF41A869BE20108F8D6D432374@esebe056.ntc.nokia.com> <071601c4de03$abb5c0e0$5d6015ac@dcml.docomolabsusa.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <94A5DC1A-49F9-11D9-913A-0030658FAAAC@let.de> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Marc Manthey Subject: Re: [Mip6] New Draft with Bootstrapping Protocol Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 16:47:07 +0100 To: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Relay-User: marc@let.de X-Spam-Score: 2.9 (++) X-Scan-Signature: ea4ac80f790299f943f0a53be7e1a21a Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip6-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 2.9 (++) X-Scan-Signature: bb8f917bb6b8da28fc948aeffb74aa17 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 09. Dec 2004, at 16:27 Uhr, James Kempf wrote: > John, >> About enterprise & small business networks. I think that 90% might >> not be >> exactly accurate. It depends upon what we are discussing. Any >> enterprise > > The 90% was intended to mean hotspot networks, not enterprise networks. this is what i mentioned earlier. > >> using dialup is using RADIUS for authentication. For internal > connectivity, >> most are using DHCP for bootstrapping, but in most cases there is >> some user >> login & password needed, quite often with a RADIUS server somewhere >> in the > network. > Yes, but if they are using a roaming broker such as iPass > Thus, they might not have access to the RADIUS > infrastructure. If they want to install a couple of access points for > local > use, they shouldn't have to go to their roaming broker. thanks for the explanation and this is why we need a solution for that. > > jak _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Thu Dec 9 11:07:52 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA05409 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 2004 11:07:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CcQwd-00004w-Th for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Dec 2004 11:15:09 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CcQgN-0002NK-SV; Thu, 09 Dec 2004 10:58:19 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CcQbp-0008TA-6g for mip6@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 09 Dec 2004 10:53:37 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA03662 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 2004 10:53:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from relay1.mail.vrmd.de ([81.28.232.18]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CcQio-00084S-QF for mip6@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Dec 2004 11:00:52 -0500 Received: from [195.14.217.7] (helo=[195.14.217.7]) by vm8.bln2.vrmd.de with asmtp (Exim 4.41) id 1CcQbJ-0006hU-MS for mip6@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Dec 2004 16:53:05 +0100 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) In-Reply-To: <20041209110841.GG10306@ipv6-5.int-evry.fr> References: <000d01c4dcbe$46319cd0$291d9069@sisa.samsung.com> <005e01c4dcdd$d3e8d0b0$4bf2fe81@ETRIYSLEE> <20041209110841.GG10306@ipv6-5.int-evry.fr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: <689704AF-49FA-11D9-913A-0030658FAAAC@let.de> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Marc Manthey Subject: Re: [Mip6] comments on chakrabarti-mip6-bmip Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 16:53:02 +0100 To: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Relay-User: marc@let.de X-Spam-Score: 2.9 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 93238566e09e6e262849b4f805833007 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip6-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 2.9 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 9466e0365fc95844abaf7c3f15a05c7d Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 09. Dec 2004, at 12:08 Uhr, Julien Bournelle wrote: > Hi all, > > On Wed, Dec 08, 2004 at 01:24:37PM +0900, Junghoon Jee wrote: >> I agree with Alper. >> We need a new AAA Application to support MIP6 bootstrapping. full ack > I think that we could have 2 solutions for bootstrapping Mobile IPv6: > > - one based on AAA infrastructure > > - one that could be used without AAA thanks marc -- "Fragmentation is like classful addressing , an interesting early architectural error that shows how much experimentation was going on while IP was being designed. _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Thu Dec 9 11:18:31 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA06383 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 2004 11:18:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CcR6x-0000L1-8q for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Dec 2004 11:25:48 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CcQqE-0004St-1t; Thu, 09 Dec 2004 11:08:30 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CcQht-0002g2-T9 for mip6@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 09 Dec 2004 10:59:54 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA04488 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 2004 10:59:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.flarion.com ([63.103.94.23] helo=ftmailgfi.flariontech.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CcQou-0008Iw-EP for mip6@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Dec 2004 11:07:08 -0500 Received: from ftmailserver.flariontech.com ([10.10.1.140]) by ftmailgfi.flariontech.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Thu, 9 Dec 2004 10:59:19 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [Mip6] comments on chakrabarti-mip6-bmip Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 10:59:21 -0500 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [Mip6] comments on chakrabarti-mip6-bmip Thread-Index: AcTb6CFC2TbOb3FaTnGmL16rcpMFtQCH6IDw From: "Soliman, Hesham" To: "Alper Yegin" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Dec 2004 15:59:19.0942 (UTC) FILETIME=[0B086260:01C4DE08] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: f607d15ccc2bc4eaf3ade8ffa8af02a0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip6-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 52f7a77164458f8c7b36b66787c853da Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sorry, late comment. > This is an interesting I-D for "discovering HA" part of MIP6 > bootstrapping problem. Instead of knowing a home subnet or IPv6 > addresses of home agents, knowing the domain name is=20 > sufficient to learn > HA addresses.=20 >=20 > I think for the "AAA" discussions, the document should clearly state > what AAA-enabled service is being addressed. The implicit=20 > assumption is > that it refers to "AAA for network access service". But in=20 > fact, there > is also "AAA for Mobile IPv6 service", and I'm not sure if a complete > solution can be developed without that. The I-D is not=20 > discussing how MN > is authenticated/authorized for the mobility service. =3D> One general point to note here is that the "Mobility service" has its own method built in for authentication/authorisation. So, while AAA can be leveraged for authentication and authorisation for many services, this doesn't mean it has to.=20 Hesham >=20 > It is not likely that an HA learned via DNS would already have > authentication/authorization information for the MN. Hence, even a > DNS-learned HA is likely to rely on a MIP6-AAA application to > authenticate the MN. Please see draft-yegin-mip6-aaa-fwk-00.txt. And > (imho) real value of IKEv2 is that it allows use of EAP,=20 > which fits into > MN-HA-AAA model described in mip6-aaa-fwk I-D. Not a standard, but > products already assign IP addresses via IKEv1.=20 >=20 > Alper >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Mip6 mailing list > Mip6@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 >=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D This email may contain confidential and privileged material for the sole = use of the intended recipient. Any review or distribution by others is = strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient please contact the = sender and delete all copies. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Thu Dec 9 11:28:47 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA07581 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 2004 11:28:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CcRGp-0000fF-3Z for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Dec 2004 11:36:04 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CcQtp-00057Z-W2; Thu, 09 Dec 2004 11:12:14 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CcQnc-0003cn-Bb for mip6@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 09 Dec 2004 11:05:48 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA05266 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 2004 11:05:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from key1.docomolabs-usa.com ([216.98.102.225] helo=fridge.docomolabs-usa.com ident=fwuser) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CcQub-0008Tv-M4 for mip6@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Dec 2004 11:13:03 -0500 Message-ID: <079901c4de09$12a19db0$5d6015ac@dcml.docomolabsusa.com> From: "James Kempf" To: , , References: <3CF661B1787ABF41A869BE20108F8D6D4323A5@esebe056.ntc.nokia.com> Subject: Re: [Mip6] New Draft with Bootstrapping Protocol Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 08:06:34 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7baded97d9887f7a0c7e8a33c2e3ea1b Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip6-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: cab78e1e39c4b328567edb48482b6a69 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi John, >Hmm, I'd have to chew on this. What scenario are you saying that - an enterprise might 'buy' >IPASS accounts for its workers, and expect that IPASS provide bootstrapping to get the >employee's device up and running? I could imagine that IPASS would provide a service >for mobile workers with this kind of 'customized' service, if it was not too difficult >to deploy. Essentially IPASS would host this service. From what I understand that IPASS >& Boingo are currently doing, its not outside of the realm of possibilities. > > However, if you are thinking of a small firm deploying WLAN APs inside an office, I still > think that office will want some sort of user name / password with some sort of acccess > control. A roaming broker isn't needed, but some sort of server, RADIUS seems likely, to > provide this would be reasonable. > > Is there a different model you had in mind? Actually, the model I had in mind is what we use in our office, which I can imagine might be fairly common (though I haven't checked). We buy dialup roaming service from a roaming broker, but our local WLAN uses one of the new WLAN switches that requires the host to have an IPsec session up with the corporate VPN in order to get into the corporate LAN. So we're handling the WLAN access authentication ourselves, while our roaming broker handles the dialup service. We only have a handful of access points (its a small office) so the burden of administering our WLAN isn't so high, especially since the authentication and authorization part is shared by the VPN, which we need for dialup (or remote hotspot) too. jak _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Thu Dec 9 12:24:47 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA12225 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 2004 12:24:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CcS8w-0001uy-5a for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Dec 2004 12:32:04 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CcRgr-0003sT-Rg; Thu, 09 Dec 2004 12:02:53 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CcRXg-0007wE-JA for mip6@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 09 Dec 2004 11:53:26 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA09877 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 2004 11:53:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from relay1.mail.vrmd.de ([81.28.232.18]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CcReg-0001DS-Js for mip6@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Dec 2004 12:00:39 -0500 Received: from [195.14.217.7] (helo=[195.14.217.7]) by vm8.bln2.vrmd.de with asmtp (Exim 4.41) id 1CcRXA-0007MN-7M for mip6@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Dec 2004 17:52:52 +0100 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) In-Reply-To: <079901c4de09$12a19db0$5d6015ac@dcml.docomolabsusa.com> References: <3CF661B1787ABF41A869BE20108F8D6D4323A5@esebe056.ntc.nokia.com> <079901c4de09$12a19db0$5d6015ac@dcml.docomolabsusa.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Marc Manthey Subject: Re: [Mip6] New Draft with Bootstrapping Protocol Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 17:52:48 +0100 To: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Relay-User: marc@let.de X-Spam-Score: 2.9 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 8b30eb7682a596edff707698f4a80f7d Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip6-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 2.9 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 21c69d3cfc2dd19218717dbe1d974352 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >> Is there a different model you had in mind? > Actually, the model I had in mind is what we use in our office, which > I can > imagine might be fairly common (though I haven't checked). > We buy dialup roaming service from a roaming broker, but our local > WLAN uses > one of the new WLAN switches that requires the host to have an IPsec > session > up with the corporate VPN in order to get into the corporate LAN. So > we're > handling the WLAN access authentication ourselves, while our roaming > broker > handles the dialup service. We only have a handful of access points > (its a > small office) so the burden of administering our WLAN isn't so high, > especially since the authentication and authorization part is shared > by the > VPN, which we need for dialup (or remote hotspot) too. this is a "greenspot initiative" that starts in germany with some impressive counts on free hotspots and it would be a great step in providing free or roaming broker based network for anyone , even when there are a few "Greespots" or you live in smaller citys. http://www.eco.de/servlet/PB/show/1230158/Greenspot_White_Paper.pdf sorry its german but maybee you can rea the statistics and grafics marc -- "If the doors of perception were cleansed, everything would appear to man as it is, infinite." William Blake, The Marriage of Heaven and Hell M. Manthey http://brain.let.de _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Thu Dec 9 13:33:15 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA19244 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 2004 13:33:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CcTDL-0003TJ-54 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Dec 2004 13:40:32 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CcSsE-0000aM-CT; Thu, 09 Dec 2004 13:18:42 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CcSlb-000784-JV for mip6@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 09 Dec 2004 13:11:51 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA17257 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 2004 13:11:49 -0500 (EST) From: john.loughney@nokia.com Received: from mgw-x3.nokia.com ([131.228.20.26]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CcSsc-00031M-8f for mip6@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Dec 2004 13:19:07 -0500 Received: from esdks001.ntc.nokia.com (esdks001.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.138.120]) by mgw-x3.nokia.com (Switch-2.2.8/Switch-2.2.8) with ESMTP id iB9IBhj12819; Thu, 9 Dec 2004 20:11:44 +0200 (EET) X-Scanned: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 20:14:33 +0200 Nokia Message Protector V1.3.31 2004060815 - RELEASE Received: (from root@localhost) by esdks001.ntc.nokia.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) id iB9IEXPO006343; Thu, 9 Dec 2004 20:14:33 +0200 Received: from mgw-int1.ntc.nokia.com (172.21.143.96) by esdks001.ntc.nokia.com 00F2kcuI; Thu, 09 Dec 2004 20:14:16 EET Received: from esebh004.NOE.Nokia.com (esebh004.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.138.84]) by mgw-int1.ntc.nokia.com (Switch-2.2.8/Switch-2.2.8) with ESMTP id iB9I9ba02850; Thu, 9 Dec 2004 20:09:37 +0200 (EET) Received: from esebe017.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.21.138.56]) by esebh004.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6881); Thu, 9 Dec 2004 20:09:37 +0200 Received: from esebe056.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.21.143.51]) by esebe017.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6881); Thu, 9 Dec 2004 20:09:36 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6603.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [Mip6] New Draft with Bootstrapping Protocol Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 20:09:36 +0200 Message-ID: <3CF661B1787ABF41A869BE20108F8D6D4323A9@esebe056.ntc.nokia.com> Thread-Topic: [Mip6] New Draft with Bootstrapping Protocol Thread-Index: AcTeDPm/Z32kMyb3Qwaxx0LVyE916gADRXCQ To: , , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Dec 2004 18:09:36.0881 (UTC) FILETIME=[3E4A9E10:01C4DE1A] X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ffa9dfbbe7cc58b3fa6b8ae3e57b0aa3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip6-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Scan-Signature: e5ba305d0e64821bf3d8bc5d3bb07228 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable James, > Actually, the model I had in mind is what we use in our office, which = I can > imagine might be fairly common (though I haven't checked). >=20 > We buy dialup roaming service from a roaming broker, but our local = WLAN uses > one of the new WLAN switches that requires the host to have an IPsec = session > up with the corporate VPN in order to get into the corporate LAN. So = we're > handling the WLAN access authentication ourselves, while our roaming = broker > handles the dialup service. We only have a handful of access points = (its a > small office) so the burden of administering our WLAN isn't so high, > especially since the authentication and authorization part is shared = by the > VPN, which we need for dialup (or remote hotspot) too. Our VPN uses RADIUS authentication, so there is AAA involved. Most - I = can't say all - VPN solutions seem to involve RADIUS. =20 John _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Thu Dec 9 13:48:56 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA20377 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 2004 13:48:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CcTSX-0003n9-F1 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Dec 2004 13:56:13 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CcTBG-0005RI-AS; Thu, 09 Dec 2004 13:38:22 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CcSxO-00021a-OG for mip6@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 09 Dec 2004 13:24:02 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA18478 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 2004 13:23:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailout3.samsung.com ([203.254.224.33]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CcT4P-0003Fs-S0 for mip6@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Dec 2004 13:31:18 -0500 Received: from custom-daemon.mailout3.samsung.com by mailout3.samsung.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.17 (built Jun 23 2003)) id <0I8G00G01WF4E2@mailout3.samsung.com> for mip6@ietf.org; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 03:23:28 +0900 (KST) Received: from ep_mmp2 (mailout3.samsung.com [203.254.224.33]) by mailout3.samsung.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.17 (built Jun 23 2003)) with ESMTP id <0I8G00IZVWF40G@mailout3.samsung.com> for mip6@ietf.org; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 03:23:28 +0900 (KST) Received: from Alperyegin ([105.144.29.41]) by mmp2.samsung.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.17 (built Jun 23 2003)) with ESMTPA id <0I8G00BRWWF2O8@mmp2.samsung.com> for mip6@ietf.org; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 03:23:28 +0900 (KST) Date: Thu, 09 Dec 2004 10:23:15 -0800 From: Alper Yegin Subject: RE: [Mip6] comments on chakrabarti-mip6-bmip In-reply-to: To: "'Soliman, Hesham'" , mip6@ietf.org Message-id: <017701c4de1c$2751a850$6401a8c0@sisa.samsung.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 02ec665d00de228c50c93ed6b5e4fc1a Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip6-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: b4a0a5f5992e2a4954405484e7717d8c Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hi Hesham, > => One general point to note here is that the "Mobility service" > has its own method built in for authentication/authorisation. Yes, and that stops at HA. If HA does not know anything about the MN, then we need something else in there (HA-AAA interaction). > So, while AAA can be leveraged for authentication and authorisation > for many services, this doesn't mean it has to. I said that in the context of bootstrapping -- discovering a HA via DNS, and getting Mobile IPv6 service from it. Can we always assume that MN has a pre-established SA with all such possible HAs? If not, we still need to get HA in touch with some server that knows MN. That's what I was referring to as "AAA for Mobile IPv6 service". Do you have some alternative thoughts? Alper > > Hesham > > > > > It is not likely that an HA learned via DNS would already have > > authentication/authorization information for the MN. Hence, even a > > DNS-learned HA is likely to rely on a MIP6-AAA application to > > authenticate the MN. Please see draft-yegin-mip6-aaa-fwk-00.txt. And > > (imho) real value of IKEv2 is that it allows use of EAP, > > which fits into > > MN-HA-AAA model described in mip6-aaa-fwk I-D. Not a standard, but > > products already assign IP addresses via IKEv1. > > > > Alper > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Mip6 mailing list > > Mip6@ietf.org > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 > > > > =========================================================== > This email may contain confidential and privileged material for the sole > use > of the intended recipient. Any review or distribution by others is > strictly > prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient please contact the > sender > and delete all copies. > =========================================================== > _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Thu Dec 9 13:49:56 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA20465 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 2004 13:49:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CcTTU-0003oW-1x for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Dec 2004 13:57:13 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CcTHK-00073h-Bx; Thu, 09 Dec 2004 13:44:38 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CcT3B-0003rZ-Jd for mip6@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 09 Dec 2004 13:30:01 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA19046 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 2004 13:29:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailout2.samsung.com ([203.254.224.25]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CcTAC-0003OU-HQ for mip6@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Dec 2004 13:37:17 -0500 Received: from custom-daemon.mailout2.samsung.com by mailout2.samsung.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.17 (built Jun 23 2003)) id <0I8G00M04WP3L9@mailout2.samsung.com> for mip6@ietf.org; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 03:29:27 +0900 (KST) Received: from ep_mmp2 (mailout2.samsung.com [203.254.224.25]) by mailout2.samsung.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.17 (built Jun 23 2003)) with ESMTP id <0I8G00D35WP3JB@mailout2.samsung.com> for mip6@ietf.org; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 03:29:27 +0900 (KST) Received: from Alperyegin ([105.144.29.41]) by mmp2.samsung.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.17 (built Jun 23 2003)) with ESMTPA id <0I8G00I0DWP0MP@mmp2.samsung.com> for mip6@ietf.org; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 03:29:27 +0900 (KST) Date: Thu, 09 Dec 2004 10:29:13 -0800 From: Alper Yegin Subject: RE: [Mip6] New Draft with Bootstrapping Protocol In-reply-to: <3CF661B1787ABF41A869BE20108F8D6D432374@esebe056.ntc.nokia.com> To: john.loughney@nokia.com, kempf@docomolabs-usa.com, jhjee@etri.re.kr, mip6@ietf.org Message-id: <017801c4de1c$fd358450$6401a8c0@sisa.samsung.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d6b246023072368de71562c0ab503126 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip6-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 93238566e09e6e262849b4f805833007 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hi John, > For internal > connectivity, > most are using DHCP for bootstrapping, but in most cases there is some > user > login & password needed, quite often with a RADIUS server somewhere in the > network. I think it matters what is logged in. I'm not sure if it is always to "IP access service". I don't know the percentages, but sometimes it is a login to PC, or to a workgroup domain (NT, etc.). In those cases, the host is already enabled with IP access service. Alper _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Thu Dec 9 14:41:55 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA25642 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 2004 14:41:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CcUHo-00057t-64 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Dec 2004 14:49:13 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CcU2K-0004vo-9F; Thu, 09 Dec 2004 14:33:12 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CcTwa-00031M-1y for mip6@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 09 Dec 2004 14:27:16 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA24254 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 2004 14:27:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from key1.docomolabs-usa.com ([216.98.102.225] helo=fridge.docomolabs-usa.com ident=fwuser) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CcU3b-0004pp-CJ for mip6@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Dec 2004 14:34:32 -0500 Message-ID: <002201c4de25$3565b270$3e6015ac@dcml.docomolabsusa.com> From: "James Kempf" To: "Alper Yegin" , "'Soliman, Hesham'" , References: <017701c4de1c$2751a850$6401a8c0@sisa.samsung.com> Subject: Re: [Mip6] comments on chakrabarti-mip6-bmip Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 11:28:01 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: de4f315c9369b71d7dd5909b42224370 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip6-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 798b2e660f1819ae38035ac1d8d5e3ab Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I said that in the context of bootstrapping -- discovering a HA via DNS, > and getting Mobile IPv6 service from it. Can we always assume that MN > has a pre-established SA with all such possible HAs? If not, we still > need to get HA in touch with some server that knows MN. That's what I > was referring to as "AAA for Mobile IPv6 service". > > Do you have some alternative thoughts? > Well, the HA could use LDAP or some other protocol, as long as there's no interdomain traffic. It's like the relationship between the PAA and authentication server in the PANA architecture (draft-ietf-pana-framework-02.txt, Section 3, paragraph 5). jak _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Thu Dec 9 15:36:51 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA01675 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 2004 15:36:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CcV8z-0006K5-Q1 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Dec 2004 15:44:10 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CcUrq-0005q0-3r; Thu, 09 Dec 2004 15:26:26 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CcUoA-0003Dy-DI for mip6@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 09 Dec 2004 15:22:39 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA00316 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 2004 15:22:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.flarion.com ([63.103.94.23] helo=ftmailgfi.flariontech.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CcUv9-0005zW-OT for mip6@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Dec 2004 15:29:55 -0500 Received: from ftmailserver.flariontech.com ([10.10.1.140]) by ftmailgfi.flariontech.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Thu, 9 Dec 2004 15:22:00 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6603.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [Mip6] comments on chakrabarti-mip6-bmip Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 15:22:01 -0500 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [Mip6] comments on chakrabarti-mip6-bmip Thread-Index: AcTeHHDM0UaWILUdTQOE2ed+H0w//QAEAKOQ From: "Soliman, Hesham" To: "Alper Yegin" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Dec 2004 20:22:00.0113 (UTC) FILETIME=[BCD3A210:01C4DE2C] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: cd26b070c2577ac175cd3a6d878c6248 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip6-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: b7b9551d71acde901886cc48bfc088a6 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > So, while AAA can be leveraged for authentication and authorisation > > for many services, this doesn't mean it has to. >=20 > I said that in the context of bootstrapping -- discovering a=20 > HA via DNS, > and getting Mobile IPv6 service from it. Can we always assume that MN > has a pre-established SA with all such possible HAs?=20 =3D> Sometimes yes and sometimes no.=20 If not, we still > need to get HA in touch with some server that knows MN. That's what I > was referring to as "AAA for Mobile IPv6 service".=20 >=20 > Do you have some alternative thoughts? =3D> No, I wanted to highlight that different services can have their own authentication without relying on AAA. I'm not=20 ruling out AAA in anyway, but at the same time I don't want to rule out non-AAA solutions by implicitly assuming that service authentication is always based on AAA.=20 Hesham >=20 > Alper > =20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > >=20 > > Hesham > >=20 > > > > > > It is not likely that an HA learned via DNS would already have > > > authentication/authorization information for the MN.=20 > Hence, even a > > > DNS-learned HA is likely to rely on a MIP6-AAA application to > > > authenticate the MN. Please see draft-yegin-mip6-aaa-fwk-00.txt. > And > > > (imho) real value of IKEv2 is that it allows use of EAP, > > > which fits into > > > MN-HA-AAA model described in mip6-aaa-fwk I-D. Not a=20 > standard, but > > > products already assign IP addresses via IKEv1. > > > > > > Alper > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Mip6 mailing list > > > Mip6@ietf.org > > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 > > > > >=20 > > = =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > This email may contain confidential and privileged material for the > sole > > use > > of the intended recipient. Any review or distribution by=20 > others is > > strictly > > prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient please=20 > contact the > > sender > > and delete all copies. > > = =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Thu Dec 9 16:36:39 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA11470 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 2004 16:36:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CcW4s-0000zS-Pm for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Dec 2004 16:43:59 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CcVMA-00051l-6f; Thu, 09 Dec 2004 15:57:46 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CcV9n-00073v-6a; Thu, 09 Dec 2004 15:44:59 -0500 Received: from CNRI.Reston.VA.US (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA02530; Thu, 9 Dec 2004 15:44:57 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200412092044.PAA02530@ietf.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" To: i-d-announce@ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Date: Thu, 09 Dec 2004 15:44:57 -0500 Cc: mip6@ietf.org Subject: [Mip6] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-mip6-auth-protocol-01.txt X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip6-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.4 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 6e922792024732fb1bb6f346e63517e4 --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Mobility for IPv6 Working Group of the IETF. Title : Authentication Protocol for Mobile IPv6 Author(s) : K. Leung, et al. Filename : draft-ietf-mip6-auth-protocol-01.txt Pages : 21 Date : 2004-12-9 IPsec is specified as the sole means of securing all signaling messages between the Mobile Node and Home agent for Mobile IPv6. A flexible model for security between the mobile node and home agent is required from the perspective of deployment of the Mobile IPv6 protocol. One instance of such deployment need comes from networks that are built on 3GPP2 standards. This document proposes an alternate method for securing the signaling messages that are responsible for performing Registration of a mobile node at a home agent. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-mip6-auth-protocol-01.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-mip6-auth-protocol-01.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-mip6-auth-protocol-01.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2004-12-9155928.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-mip6-auth-protocol-01.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-mip6-auth-protocol-01.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2004-12-9155928.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 --NextPart-- From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Thu Dec 9 19:05:13 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA00204 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 2004 19:05:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CcYOg-0006GM-By for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Dec 2004 19:12:35 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CcYGC-0007Zk-PS; Thu, 09 Dec 2004 19:03:48 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CcYEg-00075w-Cf for mip6@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 09 Dec 2004 19:02:14 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA00131 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 2004 19:02:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailout2.samsung.com ([203.254.224.25]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CcYLk-0006DS-JC for mip6@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Dec 2004 19:09:33 -0500 Received: from custom-daemon.mailout2.samsung.com by mailout2.samsung.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.17 (built Jun 23 2003)) id <0I8H00801C2SX1@mailout2.samsung.com> for mip6@ietf.org; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 09:01:40 +0900 (KST) Received: from ep_mmp2 (mailout2.samsung.com [203.254.224.25]) by mailout2.samsung.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.17 (built Jun 23 2003)) with ESMTP id <0I8H008IAC2S9D@mailout2.samsung.com> for mip6@ietf.org; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 09:01:40 +0900 (KST) Received: from Alperyegin ([105.144.29.41]) by mmp2.samsung.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.17 (built Jun 23 2003)) with ESMTPA id <0I8H00ISVC2LMP@mmp2.samsung.com> for mip6@ietf.org; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 09:01:40 +0900 (KST) Date: Thu, 09 Dec 2004 16:01:32 -0800 From: Alper Yegin Subject: RE: [Mip6] comments on chakrabarti-mip6-bmip In-reply-to: To: "'Soliman, Hesham'" , mip6@ietf.org Message-id: <000b01c4de4b$6c800820$291d9069@sisa.samsung.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 32b73d73e8047ed17386f9799119ce43 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip6-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 14582b0692e7f70ce7111d04db3781c8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT > > > > So, while AAA can be leveraged for authentication and authorisation > > > for many services, this doesn't mean it has to. > > > > I said that in the context of bootstrapping -- discovering a > > HA via DNS, > > and getting Mobile IPv6 service from it. Can we always assume that MN > > has a pre-established SA with all such possible HAs? > > => Sometimes yes and sometimes no. That's a "no" ;-) > If not, we still > > need to get HA in touch with some server that knows MN. That's what I > > was referring to as "AAA for Mobile IPv6 service". > > > > Do you have some alternative thoughts? > > => No, I wanted to highlight that different services can have > their own authentication without relying on AAA. I'm not > ruling out AAA in anyway, but at the same time I don't > want to rule out non-AAA solutions by implicitly assuming that > service authentication is always based on AAA. OK, I agree. We need a RADIUS/Diameter-based solution, but that does not mean everyone must use that only. Alper > > Hesham > > > > > Alper > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hesham > > > > > > > > > > > It is not likely that an HA learned via DNS would already have > > > > authentication/authorization information for the MN. > > Hence, even a > > > > DNS-learned HA is likely to rely on a MIP6-AAA application to > > > > authenticate the MN. Please see draft-yegin-mip6-aaa-fwk-00.txt. > > And > > > > (imho) real value of IKEv2 is that it allows use of EAP, > > > > which fits into > > > > MN-HA-AAA model described in mip6-aaa-fwk I-D. Not a > > standard, but > > > > products already assign IP addresses via IKEv1. > > > > > > > > Alper > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Mip6 mailing list > > > > Mip6@ietf.org > > > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 > > > > > > > > > > =========================================================== > > > This email may contain confidential and privileged material for the > > sole > > > use > > > of the intended recipient. Any review or distribution by > > others is > > > strictly > > > prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient please > > contact the > > > sender > > > and delete all copies. > > > =========================================================== > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Thu Dec 9 19:09:43 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA00469 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 2004 19:09:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CcYT2-0006Jh-N9 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Dec 2004 19:17:05 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CcYGD-0007Zq-6f; Thu, 09 Dec 2004 19:03:49 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CcYEj-000761-Cc for mip6@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 09 Dec 2004 19:02:19 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA00134 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 2004 19:02:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from mailout1.samsung.com ([203.254.224.24]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CcYLn-0006DT-7J for mip6@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Dec 2004 19:09:36 -0500 Received: from custom-daemon.mailout1.samsung.com by mailout1.samsung.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 Patch 2 (built Jul 14 2004)) id <0I8H00F09C2W8I@mailout1.samsung.com> for mip6@ietf.org; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 09:01:44 +0900 (KST) Received: from ep_mmp2 (mailout1.samsung.com [203.254.224.24]) by mailout1.samsung.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 Patch 2 (built Jul 14 2004)) with ESMTP id <0I8H00GCEC2VQO@mailout1.samsung.com> for mip6@ietf.org; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 09:01:43 +0900 (KST) Received: from Alperyegin ([105.144.29.41]) by mmp2.samsung.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.17 (built Jun 23 2003)) with ESMTPA id <0I8H00ISVC2LMP@mmp2.samsung.com> for mip6@ietf.org; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 09:01:43 +0900 (KST) Date: Thu, 09 Dec 2004 16:01:32 -0800 From: Alper Yegin Subject: RE: [Mip6] comments on chakrabarti-mip6-bmip In-reply-to: <002201c4de25$3565b270$3e6015ac@dcml.docomolabsusa.com> To: "'James Kempf'" , "'Soliman, Hesham'" , mip6@ietf.org Message-id: <001201c4de4b$6e42c6c0$291d9069@sisa.samsung.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9466e0365fc95844abaf7c3f15a05c7d Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip6-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 97adf591118a232206bdb5a27b217034 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT > > I said that in the context of bootstrapping -- discovering a HA via DNS, > > and getting Mobile IPv6 service from it. Can we always assume that MN > > has a pre-established SA with all such possible HAs? If not, we still > > need to get HA in touch with some server that knows MN. That's what I > > was referring to as "AAA for Mobile IPv6 service". > > > > Do you have some alternative thoughts? > > > > Well, the HA could use LDAP or some other protocol, as long as there's no > interdomain traffic. It's like the relationship between the PAA and > authentication server in the PANA architecture > (draft-ietf-pana-framework-02.txt, Section 3, paragraph 5). Sure, that would be one way to implement a "AAA for Mobile IPv6 service". Writing a AAA for Mobile IPv6 application over LDAP is an alternative to doing that over RADIUS or Diameter. In the context of IETF, the latter two are the protocols of choice though. We agree. Alper _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Thu Dec 9 19:16:21 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA01123 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 2004 19:16:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CcYZS-0006Ul-M5 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Dec 2004 19:23:43 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CcYNq-000172-LV; Thu, 09 Dec 2004 19:11:42 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CcYLD-0008B0-1V for mip6@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 09 Dec 2004 19:08:59 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA00401 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 2004 19:08:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from email1.etri.re.kr ([129.254.16.131] helo=email1.etri.info) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CcYSG-0006IK-0W for mip6@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Dec 2004 19:16:18 -0500 Received: from ETRIYSLEE ([129.254.242.75]) by email1.etri.info with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Fri, 10 Dec 2004 09:06:50 +0900 Message-ID: <000a01c4de4c$19ff77b0$4bf2fe81@ETRIYSLEE> From: "Junghoon Jee" To: "Gerardo Giaretta" References: Subject: Re: [Mip6] New Draft with Bootstrapping Protocol Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 09:06:30 +0900 Organization: CMS MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Dec 2004 00:06:50.0808 (UTC) FILETIME=[25E85380:01C4DE4C] X-Spam-Score: 2.2 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 6d95a152022472c7d6cdf886a0424dc6 Cc: mip6@ietf.org, James Kempf X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list 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https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 --===============2008119521==-- From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Thu Dec 9 23:35:33 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA22155 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 2004 23:35:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CcccL-0002zH-KU for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Dec 2004 23:42:57 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CccTh-0007Q3-Mr; Thu, 09 Dec 2004 23:34:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CccTA-0007Eq-IC for mip6@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 09 Dec 2004 23:33:28 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA22005 for ; Thu, 9 Dec 2004 23:33:26 -0500 (EST) From: Basavaraj.Patil@nokia.com Received: from mgw-x1.nokia.com ([131.228.20.21]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CccaG-0002wn-V9 for mip6@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Dec 2004 23:40:50 -0500 Received: from esdks003.ntc.nokia.com (esdks003.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.138.158]) by mgw-x1.nokia.com (Switch-2.2.8/Switch-2.2.8) with ESMTP id iBA4XOv29222 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 06:33:25 +0200 (EET) X-Scanned: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 06:33:17 +0200 Nokia Message Protector V1.3.31 2004060815 - RELEASE Received: (from root@localhost) by esdks003.ntc.nokia.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) id iBA4XHYN032642 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 06:33:17 +0200 Received: from mgw-int2.ntc.nokia.com (172.21.143.97) by esdks003.ntc.nokia.com 00CTj5Nl; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 06:33:17 EET Received: from daebh002.NOE.Nokia.com (daebh002.americas.nokia.com [10.241.35.122]) by mgw-int2.ntc.nokia.com (Switch-2.2.8/Switch-2.2.8) with ESMTP id iBA4XGS15392 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 06:33:17 +0200 (EET) Received: from daebe007.NOE.Nokia.com ([10.241.35.107]) by daebh002.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6881); Thu, 9 Dec 2004 22:33:16 -0600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 22:33:15 -0600 Message-ID: <697DAA22C5004B4596E033803A7CEF4403B1C2C4@daebe007.americas.nokia.com> Thread-Topic: WG LC: I-D draft-ietf-mip6-precfgkbm-01.txt Thread-Index: AcTecV1cr4u+jM1pQIqnuY8DBzDlRg== To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Dec 2004 04:33:16.0313 (UTC) FILETIME=[5E02D090:01C4DE71] X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Scan-Signature: cf4fa59384e76e63313391b70cd0dd25 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [Mip6] WG LC: I-D draft-ietf-mip6-precfgkbm-01.txt X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip6-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7d33c50f3756db14428398e2bdedd581 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, This is a Working Group last call for the following I-D: I-D :draft-ietf-mip6-precfgkbm-01.txt Title: Precomputable Binding Management Key Kbm for Mobile IPv6 The status associated with this I-D is : Informational and will be progressed as such. Please review and post your comments by January 1st, 2005. -Chairs URL to I-D: http://ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-mip6-precfgkbm-01.txt _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Fri Dec 10 06:31:25 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA05665 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 06:31:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Ccj6r-0002T7-HQ for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 06:38:53 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CcisZ-0004Tn-SR; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 06:24:07 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CciqG-0003tJ-9N for mip6@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 06:21:44 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA05032 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 06:21:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from laposte.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr ([192.44.77.17]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CcixQ-0002F7-Uo for mip6@ietf.org; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 06:29:09 -0500 Received: from givry.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr (givry.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr [193.52.74.194]) by laposte.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr (8.11.6p2/8.11.6/2003.04.01) with ESMTP id iBABL0C01575; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 12:21:00 +0100 Received: from givry.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr (localhost.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr [127.0.0.1]) by givry.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id iBABKxSj032085; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 12:21:00 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from dupont@givry.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr) Message-Id: <200412101121.iBABKxSj032085@givry.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr> From: Francis Dupont To: Basavaraj.Patil@nokia.com Subject: Re: [Mip6] WG LC: I-D draft-ietf-mip6-precfgkbm-01.txt In-reply-to: Your message of Thu, 09 Dec 2004 22:33:15 CST. <697DAA22C5004B4596E033803A7CEF4403B1C2C4@daebe007.americas.nokia.com> Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 12:20:59 +0100 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-milter (http://amavis.org/) at enst-bretagne.fr X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7bac9cb154eb5790ae3b2913587a40de Cc: mip6@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip6-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 08170828343bcf1325e4a0fb4584481c In your previous mail you wrote: The status associated with this I-D is : Informational and will be progressed as such. => why is it not a standard track document? Thanks Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Fri Dec 10 09:15:48 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA16656 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 09:15:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Cclfv-0005mw-Vm for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 09:23:17 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CclSz-00079f-43; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 09:09:53 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CclOp-0005aU-Gb for mip6@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 09:05:35 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA15891 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 09:05:34 -0500 (EST) From: Basavaraj.Patil@nokia.com Received: from mgw-x3.nokia.com ([131.228.20.26]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CclW1-0005YS-Up for mip6@ietf.org; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 09:13:02 -0500 Received: from esdks004.ntc.nokia.com (esdks004.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.138.159]) by mgw-x3.nokia.com (Switch-2.2.8/Switch-2.2.8) with ESMTP id iBAE5Wj10714 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 16:05:32 +0200 (EET) X-Scanned: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 16:05:17 +0200 Nokia Message Protector V1.3.31 2004060815 - RELEASE Received: (from root@localhost) by esdks004.ntc.nokia.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) id iBAE5HOi029398 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 16:05:17 +0200 Received: from mgw-int2.ntc.nokia.com (172.21.143.97) by esdks004.ntc.nokia.com 00l1sVWd; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 16:05:15 EET Received: from daebh002.NOE.Nokia.com (daebh002.americas.nokia.com [10.241.35.122]) by mgw-int2.ntc.nokia.com (Switch-2.2.8/Switch-2.2.8) with ESMTP id iBAE5FS15836 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 16:05:15 +0200 (EET) Received: from daebe007.NOE.Nokia.com ([10.241.35.107]) by daebh002.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6881); Fri, 10 Dec 2004 08:04:59 -0600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [Mip6] WG LC: I-D draft-ietf-mip6-precfgkbm-01.txt (Correction about status) Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 08:04:59 -0600 Message-ID: <697DAA22C5004B4596E033803A7CEF4403B1C2C8@daebe007.americas.nokia.com> Thread-Topic: WG LC: I-D draft-ietf-mip6-precfgkbm-01.txt Thread-Index: AcTecV1cr4u+jM1pQIqnuY8DBzDlRgAT7e3w To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Dec 2004 14:04:59.0406 (UTC) FILETIME=[3C3F6AE0:01C4DEC1] X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 39bd8f8cbb76cae18b7e23f7cf6b2b9f Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip6-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Scan-Signature: a7d6aff76b15f3f56fcb94490e1052e4 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, Please note that the status intended for this I-D is Proposed Standard. -Basavaraj > -----Original Message----- > From: mip6-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mip6-bounces@ietf.org]On Behalf Of > ext Basavaraj.Patil@nokia.com > Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 10:33 PM > To: mip6@ietf.org > Subject: [Mip6] WG LC: I-D draft-ietf-mip6-precfgkbm-01.txt >=20 >=20 >=20 > Hello, >=20 > This is a Working Group last call for the following I-D: > I-D :draft-ietf-mip6-precfgkbm-01.txt > Title: Precomputable Binding Management Key Kbm for Mobile IPv6 >=20 > The status associated with this I-D is : Informational and will be > progressed as such. >=20 > Please review and post your comments by January 1st, 2005. >=20 > -Chairs >=20 > URL to I-D: > http://ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-mip6-precfgkbm-01.txt >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Mip6 mailing list > Mip6@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 >=20 _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Fri Dec 10 09:21:25 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA17022 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 09:21:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CcllM-0005sj-Ug for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 09:28:54 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CclYd-0008OS-4P; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 09:15:43 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CclS9-0006i8-It for mip6@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 09:09:01 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA16190 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 09:09:00 -0500 (EST) From: Basavaraj.Patil@nokia.com Received: from mgw-x1.nokia.com ([131.228.20.21]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CclZL-0005e2-5h for mip6@ietf.org; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 09:16:28 -0500 Received: from esdks004.ntc.nokia.com (esdks004.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.138.159]) by mgw-x1.nokia.com (Switch-2.2.8/Switch-2.2.8) with ESMTP id iBAE8vv17512; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 16:08:57 +0200 (EET) X-Scanned: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 16:05:28 +0200 Nokia Message Protector V1.3.31 2004060815 - RELEASE Received: (from root@localhost) by esdks004.ntc.nokia.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) id iBAE5Sk2030543; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 16:05:28 +0200 Received: from mgw-int2.ntc.nokia.com (172.21.143.97) by esdks004.ntc.nokia.com 00aU9n8F; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 16:05:25 EET Received: from daebh002.NOE.Nokia.com (daebh002.americas.nokia.com [10.241.35.122]) by mgw-int2.ntc.nokia.com (Switch-2.2.8/Switch-2.2.8) with ESMTP id iBAE5ES15833; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 16:05:14 +0200 (EET) Received: from daebe007.NOE.Nokia.com ([10.241.35.107]) by daebh002.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6881); Fri, 10 Dec 2004 08:03:48 -0600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [Mip6] WG LC: I-D draft-ietf-mip6-precfgkbm-01.txt Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 08:03:47 -0600 Message-ID: <697DAA22C5004B4596E033803A7CEF4403B1C2C7@daebe007.americas.nokia.com> Thread-Topic: [Mip6] WG LC: I-D draft-ietf-mip6-precfgkbm-01.txt Thread-Index: AcTeqrzYA+iKZ8k8RviBjOooXTpaWQAFjvHg To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Dec 2004 14:03:49.0070 (UTC) FILETIME=[1252FEE0:01C4DEC1] X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d6b246023072368de71562c0ab503126 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: mip6@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip6-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 93238566e09e6e262849b4f805833007 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >=20 > In your previous mail you wrote: >=20 > The status associated with this I-D is : Informational and will be > progressed as such. > =20 > =3D> why is it not a standard track document? Sorry... That was an error. It should be standards track. I will send a correction note to the list. -Raj >=20 > Thanks >=20 > Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr >=20 _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Fri Dec 10 16:06:12 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA22228 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 16:06:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Ccs5A-0007GG-MM for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 16:13:44 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CcrQr-0005kj-Cv; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 15:32:05 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CcrOV-0004QS-Bx; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 15:29:39 -0500 Received: from CNRI.Reston.VA.US (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA15353; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 15:29:37 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200412102029.PAA15353@ietf.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" To: i-d-announce@ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 15:29:37 -0500 Cc: mip6@ietf.org Subject: [Mip6] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-mip6-mn-ident-option-00.txt X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip6-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.4 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 14582b0692e7f70ce7111d04db3781c8 --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Mobility for IPv6 Working Group of the IETF. Title : MN Identifier Option for Mobile IPv6 Author(s) : K. Leung, et al. Filename : draft-ietf-mip6-mn-ident-option-00.txt Pages : 11 Date : 2004-12-10 This document defines new mobility option to identify mobility entities using identifiers other than the home IP address. This option can be used in messages containing a mobility header. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-mip6-mn-ident-option-00.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. 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Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2004-12-10155722.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-mip6-mn-ident-option-00.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-mip6-mn-ident-option-00.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2004-12-10155722.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 --NextPart-- From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Fri Dec 10 19:09:40 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA12934 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 19:09:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Ccuwl-00046Z-M3 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 19:17:15 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Ccul3-0002Ud-N7; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 19:05:09 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Ccuie-0001wO-LA for mip6@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 19:02:40 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA12436 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 19:02:37 -0500 (EST) From: Basavaraj.Patil@nokia.com Received: from mgw-x3.nokia.com ([131.228.20.26]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Ccupw-0003za-58 for mip6@ietf.org; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 19:10:12 -0500 Received: from esdks003.ntc.nokia.com (esdks003.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.138.158]) by mgw-x3.nokia.com (Switch-2.2.8/Switch-2.2.8) with ESMTP id iBB02aj00388 for ; Sat, 11 Dec 2004 02:02:37 +0200 (EET) X-Scanned: Sat, 11 Dec 2004 02:02:08 +0200 Nokia Message Protector V1.3.31 2004060815 - RELEASE Received: (from root@localhost) by esdks003.ntc.nokia.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) id iBB0282f011750 for ; Sat, 11 Dec 2004 02:02:08 +0200 Received: from mgw-int1.ntc.nokia.com (172.21.143.96) by esdks003.ntc.nokia.com 00HdzZcg; Sat, 11 Dec 2004 02:02:07 EET Received: from daebh001.NOE.Nokia.com (daebh001.americas.nokia.com [10.241.35.121]) by mgw-int1.ntc.nokia.com (Switch-2.2.8/Switch-2.2.8) with ESMTP id iBB01Ta28462 for ; Sat, 11 Dec 2004 02:01:29 +0200 (EET) Received: from daebe007.NOE.Nokia.com ([10.241.35.107]) by daebh001.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6881); Fri, 10 Dec 2004 17:57:24 -0600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6487.1 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 17:57:24 -0600 Message-ID: <697DAA22C5004B4596E033803A7CEF4403B1C2D5@daebe007.americas.nokia.com> Thread-Topic: WG LC (Deadline Dec 18th, 04) for I-Ds: draft-ietf-mip6-auth-protocol-01.txt and draft-ietf-mip6-mn-ident-option-00.txt Thread-Index: AcTfE/3CzECSr4mrRhakpoPQQYiQpw== To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Dec 2004 23:57:24.0593 (UTC) FILETIME=[FED48610:01C4DF13] X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 93238566e09e6e262849b4f805833007 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [Mip6] WG LC (Deadline Dec 18th, 04) for I-Ds: draft-ietf-mip6-auth-protocol-01.txt and draft-ietf-mip6-mn-ident-option-00.txt X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip6-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9466e0365fc95844abaf7c3f15a05c7d Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This is a Working Group last call for the following I-Ds: 1. I-D : draft-ietf-mip6-auth-protocol-01.txt Title: Authentication Protocol for Mobile IPv6 2. I-D: draft-ietf-mip6-mn-ident-option-00.txt Title: MN Identifier Option for Mobile IPv6 The status associated with these I-Ds is : Informational and will be progressed as such. Please review and post your comments by December 18th, 2005. Note that the duration of the WG LC for these I-Ds is only one week because of the 3GPP2 dependency. -Chairs URL to I-D: 1. = http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-mip6-mn-ident-option-00.tx= t 2. = http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-mip6-mn-ident-option-00.tx= t _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Sun Dec 12 20:42:46 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA24694 for ; Sun, 12 Dec 2004 20:42:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CdfMI-00063y-T4 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 12 Dec 2004 20:50:43 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Cdf9i-0006y9-0G; Sun, 12 Dec 2004 20:37:42 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Cdf3B-0005vF-Qp for mip6@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 12 Dec 2004 20:30:57 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA23853 for ; Sun, 12 Dec 2004 20:30:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from email1.etri.re.kr ([129.254.16.131] helo=email1.etri.info) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CdfAt-0005qz-Px for mip6@ietf.org; Sun, 12 Dec 2004 20:38:56 -0500 Received: from ETRIYSLEE ([129.254.242.75]) by email1.etri.info with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Mon, 13 Dec 2004 10:30:50 +0900 Message-ID: <001e01c4e0b3$59ef9da0$4bf2fe81@ETRIYSLEE> From: "Junghoon Jee" To: , References: <697DAA22C5004B4596E033803A7CEF4403B1C2D5@daebe007.americas.nokia.com> Subject: Re: [Mip6] WG LC (Deadline Dec 18th, 04) for I-Ds: draft-ietf-mip6-auth-protocol-01.txt anddraft-ietf-mip6-mn-ident-option-00.txt Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 10:30:38 +0900 Organization: CMS MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Dec 2004 01:30:50.0246 (UTC) FILETIME=[60E2CA60:01C4E0B3] X-Spam-Score: 2.2 (++) X-Scan-Signature: cf4fa59384e76e63313391b70cd0dd25 X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Junghoon Jee List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; 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charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 --===============2080315677==-- From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Tue Dec 14 10:15:16 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA06772 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 2004 10:15:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CeEWT-0003t4-O8 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 14 Dec 2004 10:23:36 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CeE6B-0007jy-M6; Tue, 14 Dec 2004 09:56:23 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CeDc6-00061o-DT for mip6@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 14 Dec 2004 09:25:22 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA00985 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 2004 09:25:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from laposte.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr ([192.44.77.17]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CeDk6-00025l-Lb for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 14 Dec 2004 09:33:36 -0500 Received: from givry.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr (givry.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr [193.52.74.194]) by laposte.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr (8.11.6p2/8.11.6/2003.04.01) with ESMTP id iBEEOMQ21827; Tue, 14 Dec 2004 15:24:22 +0100 Received: from givry.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr (localhost.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr [127.0.0.1]) by givry.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id iBEEOMSj052267; Tue, 14 Dec 2004 15:24:23 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from dupont@givry.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr) Message-Id: <200412141424.iBEEOMSj052267@givry.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr> From: Francis Dupont To: Basavaraj.Patil@nokia.com Subject: Re: [Mip6] WG LC (Deadline Dec 18th, 04) for I-Ds: draft-ietf-mip6-auth-protocol-01.txt and draft-ietf-mip6-mn-ident-option-00.txt In-reply-to: Your message of Fri, 10 Dec 2004 17:57:24 CST. <697DAA22C5004B4596E033803A7CEF4403B1C2D5@daebe007.americas.nokia.com> Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 15:24:22 +0100 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-milter (http://amavis.org/) at enst-bretagne.fr X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: e1e48a527f609d1be2bc8d8a70eb76cb Cc: mip6@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip6-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 4adaf050708fb13be3316a9eee889caa In your previous mail you wrote: This is a Working Group last call for the following I-Ds: 1. I-D : draft-ietf-mip6-auth-protocol-01.txt Title: Authentication Protocol for Mobile IPv6 => some comments: - in 1 Introduction: IPsec SAs always come by pairs so either plural or the word pair is needed. BTW "SA" should be replaced by security association (in particular in an introduction without a previous definion :-). - Acknowldegement (sp) - Home agents however have to implement and support... This statement must be put in a context, i.e., it doesn't apply in general. - 4 operational flow: the figure mixes IPv6 extensions, IPv6 options and mobility header options: * HoA option is an IPv6 destination option * RH-2 is an extension header, not an option. - 5.1 MN-HA auth mob option: the shared security association is not introduced at all so the application consideration is out of any context... - 5.2 MN-AAA auth mob option: the BA is not protected. This is a major security issue. - the authentication options are *options*, not extensions. - 5.3 auth failure: please replace error code by status - 6 message indent: anti-replay is important, IMHO at least SHOULD is required. - 7 security considerations: the text says the new options provide authentication of BU and BA messages. This is not true for BAs. (I don't propose to fix the security considerations but the protocol) - another point: MD5 should be replaced by SHA-1 everywhere in the document. 2. I-D: draft-ietf-mip6-mn-ident-option-00.txt Title: MN Identifier Option for Mobile IPv6 => until the ident option is used in another context I can't see a reason to not merge the two documents. Regards Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Tue Dec 14 14:21:37 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA07426 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 2004 14:21:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CeIMx-00035z-BQ for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 14 Dec 2004 14:29:59 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CeI6F-00069i-89; Tue, 14 Dec 2004 14:12:43 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CeI2n-0005Fm-0p for mip6@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 14 Dec 2004 14:09:09 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA05493 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 2004 14:09:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from darkstar.iprg.nokia.com ([205.226.5.69]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CeIAq-0002d3-I1 for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 14 Dec 2004 14:17:29 -0500 Received: (from root@localhost) by darkstar.iprg.nokia.com (8.11.0/8.11.0-DARKSTAR) id iBEIdMG27440; Tue, 14 Dec 2004 10:39:22 -0800 X-mProtect: <200412141839> Nokia Silicon Valley Messaging Protection Received: from mvdhcp14171.americas.nokia.com (172.18.141.71, claiming to be "[172.18.141.71]") by darkstar.iprg.nokia.com smtpdo0vpc7; Tue, 14 Dec 2004 10:39:20 PST Message-ID: <41BF3A21.9000102@iprg.nokia.com> Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 11:08:17 -0800 From: Vijay Devarapalli User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.9 (Windows/20041103) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Francis Dupont Subject: Re: [Mip6] WG LC (Deadline Dec 18th, 04) for I-Ds: draft-ietf-mip6-auth-protocol-01.txt and draft-ietf-mip6-mn-ident-option-00.txt References: <200412141424.iBEEOMSj052267@givry.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr> In-Reply-To: <200412141424.iBEEOMSj052267@givry.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7a6398bf8aaeabc7a7bb696b6b0a2aad Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: mip6@ietf.org, Basavaraj.Patil@nokia.com X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip6-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 856eb5f76e7a34990d1d457d8e8e5b7f Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Francis Dupont wrote: > - 6 message indent: anti-replay is important, IMHO at least SHOULD is > required. in most cases, the sequence number in the Binding Update is enough for replay protection when the authentication option protocol is used. if in a particular deployment, (which uses the authentication option protocol), the sequence number is not sufficient, the message identification option should be used. that why it is a MAY in the document. Vijay _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Tue Dec 14 16:02:52 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA17205 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 2004 16:02:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CeJww-0005fy-Lc for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 14 Dec 2004 16:11:15 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CeJlb-00025j-6y; Tue, 14 Dec 2004 15:59:31 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CeJhE-0007Sj-3a for mip6@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 14 Dec 2004 15:55:00 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA16717 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 2004 15:54:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from darkstar.iprg.nokia.com ([205.226.5.69]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CeJpI-0005Vn-Ae for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 14 Dec 2004 16:03:21 -0500 Received: (from root@localhost) by darkstar.iprg.nokia.com (8.11.0/8.11.0-DARKSTAR) id iBEKPHh19019; Tue, 14 Dec 2004 12:25:17 -0800 X-mProtect: <200412142025> Nokia Silicon Valley Messaging Protection Received: from mvdhcp141138.americas.nokia.com (172.18.141.138, claiming to be "[172.18.141.138]") by darkstar.iprg.nokia.com smtpdAbZ3Px; Tue, 14 Dec 2004 12:25:15 PST Message-ID: <41BF51B7.5020000@iprg.nokia.com> Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 12:48:55 -0800 From: Charlie P Organization: NOKIA User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.7.1) Gecko/20040707 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Vijay Devarapalli Subject: Re: [Mip6] WG LC (Deadline Dec 18th, 04) for I-Ds: draft-ietf-mip6-auth-protocol-01.txt and draft-ietf-mip6-mn-ident-option-00.txt References: <200412141424.iBEEOMSj052267@givry.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr> <41BF3A21.9000102@iprg.nokia.com> In-Reply-To: <41BF3A21.9000102@iprg.nokia.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8b431ad66d60be2d47c7bfeb879db82c Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: mip6@ietf.org, Francis Dupont X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip6-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 82c9bddb247d9ba4471160a9a865a5f3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Vijay, As best I can remember, the replay protection is sufficient for all cases except when all of the following are made to be true: - The home agent has to reload the security association with the mobile node each time it (?reboots? ?is allocated?) - The home agent cannot store or reload the sequence number along with the security association I believe that when these conditions hold, it doesn't really help if the mobile node has nonvolatile memory. On the other hand, I feel it is somewhat of a design error for the home agent to be constructed in this way, and it would not usually be done that way except for certain legacy system designs. Furthermore, even in this case, I believe that the home agent could supply a timestamp-based initial sequence number to the mobile node along with error #135, and the extension wouldn't be needed even in that case. However, there is no harm in allowing the extension. Thus, I believe that "MAY" is appropriate. Regards, Charlie P. Vijay Devarapalli wrote: > Francis Dupont wrote: > >> - 6 message indent: anti-replay is important, IMHO at least SHOULD is >> required. > > > in most cases, the sequence number in the Binding Update is > enough for replay protection when the authentication option > protocol is used. if in a particular deployment, (which uses > the authentication option protocol), the sequence number is > not sufficient, the message identification option should be > used. that why it is a MAY in the document. > > Vijay > > _______________________________________________ > Mip6 mailing list > Mip6@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Tue Dec 14 19:14:04 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA07259 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 2004 19:14:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CeMvz-0003R9-T1 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 14 Dec 2004 19:22:30 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CeMkt-0007zf-U0; Tue, 14 Dec 2004 19:10:59 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CeMgD-0007Cr-Rk for mip6@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 14 Dec 2004 19:06:10 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA06958 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 2004 19:06:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from sj-iport-3-in.cisco.com ([171.71.176.72] helo=sj-iport-3.cisco.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CeMoJ-0003FW-JZ for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 14 Dec 2004 19:14:33 -0500 Received: from sj-core-5.cisco.com (171.71.177.238) by sj-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 14 Dec 2004 17:12:11 +0000 X-BrightmailFiltered: true X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Received: from mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com (IDENT:mirapoint@mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com [171.71.163.14]) by sj-core-5.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id iBF05Xsv011901; Tue, 14 Dec 2004 16:05:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from kleung-w2k01.cisco.com (dhcp-128-107-163-95.cisco.com [128.107.163.95]) by mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com (MOS 3.4.5-GR) with ESMTP id AZV16062; Tue, 14 Dec 2004 16:15:12 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20041214135910.02dbb818@mira-sjcm-2.cisco.com> X-Sender: kleung@mira-sjcm-2.cisco.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 16:05:32 -0800 To: Charlie P From: Kent Leung Subject: Re: [Mip6] WG LC (Deadline Dec 18th, 04) for I-Ds: draft-ietf-mip6-auth-protocol-01.txt and draft-ietf-mip6-mn-ident-option-00.txt In-Reply-To: <41BF51B7.5020000@iprg.nokia.com> References: <41BF3A21.9000102@iprg.nokia.com> <200412141424.iBEEOMSj052267@givry.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr> <41BF3A21.9000102@iprg.nokia.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 10ba05e7e8a9aa6adb025f426bef3a30 Cc: mip6@ietf.org, Vijay Devarapalli , Francis Dupont X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip6-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: a2c12dacc0736f14d6b540e805505a86 Hi Charlie. To provide replay protection using the Sequence Number field, the HA must store this state permanently after MN registration. Otherwise, a replay attack can be successful when MN has deregistered or BCE timed out. However, the value of such attack is debatable. >RFC 3775 section 9.5.1: > If the receiving node has no Binding Cache entry for the indicated > home address, it MUST accept any Sequence Number value in a received > Binding Update from this mobile node. In an environment where MNs are dynamically assigned to an HA, storing the SA and Sequence Number states permanently for all MNs appears to be unsuitable. Arguably correct is the minute consumption of memory to support the states. In the case when SA is dynamically generated during initial registration, the Sequence Number is sufficient because replays will fail authentication (using old SA). The timestamp option still has value for optimizing the signaling when MN and HA are synchronized. I believe "MAY" is fine. Kent At 12:48 PM 12/14/2004 -0800, Charlie P wrote: >Hello Vijay, > >As best I can remember, the replay protection is sufficient >for all cases except when all of the following are made to >be true: >- The home agent has to reload the security association > with the mobile node each time it (?reboots? ?is allocated?) >- The home agent cannot store or reload the sequence number > along with the security association >I believe that when these conditions hold, it doesn't really >help if the mobile node has nonvolatile memory. On the >other hand, I feel it is somewhat of a design error for the >home agent to be constructed in this way, and it would >not usually be done that way except for certain legacy >system designs. > >Furthermore, even in this case, I believe that the home >agent could supply a timestamp-based initial sequence >number to the mobile node along with error #135, and >the extension wouldn't be needed even in that case. >However, there is no harm in allowing the extension. >Thus, I believe that "MAY" is appropriate. > >Regards, >Charlie P. > > >Vijay Devarapalli wrote: > >>Francis Dupont wrote: >> >>> - 6 message indent: anti-replay is important, IMHO at least SHOULD is >>> required. >> >> >>in most cases, the sequence number in the Binding Update is >>enough for replay protection when the authentication option >>protocol is used. if in a particular deployment, (which uses >>the authentication option protocol), the sequence number is >>not sufficient, the message identification option should be >>used. that why it is a MAY in the document. >> >>Vijay >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Mip6 mailing list >>Mip6@ietf.org >>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 > > > >_______________________________________________ >Mip6 mailing list >Mip6@ietf.org >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 -- | | Kent Leung :|: :|: IP Mobility Development :|||: :|||: IOS Technologies Division :|||||||: :|||||||: Voice: 408.526.5030 .:|||||||||:.:|||||||||:. Fax: 408.525.1653 c i s c o S y s t e m s Email: kleung@cisco.com _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 15 00:31:23 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA00494 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 2004 00:31:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CeRt9-0002Td-TZ for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 15 Dec 2004 00:39:52 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CeRgs-0000Lv-N4; Wed, 15 Dec 2004 00:27:10 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CeReX-0008WH-VH for mip6@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 15 Dec 2004 00:24:46 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA29692 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 2004 00:24:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from key1.docomolabs-usa.com ([216.98.102.225] helo=fridge.docomolabs-usa.com ident=fwuser) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CeRmg-0002Gb-Jy for mip6@ietf.org; Wed, 15 Dec 2004 00:33:11 -0500 Message-ID: <03bf01c4e266$809868b0$626015ac@dcml.docomolabsusa.com> From: "James Kempf" To: "Francis Dupont" , References: <200412141424.iBEEOMSj052267@givry.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr> Subject: Re: [Mip6] WG LC (Deadline Dec 18th, 04) for I-Ds: draft-ietf-mip6-auth-protocol-01.txt anddraft-ietf-mip6-mn-ident-option-00.txt Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 17:41:48 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d6b246023072368de71562c0ab503126 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: mip6@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip6-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 93238566e09e6e262849b4f805833007 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > - another point: MD5 should be replaced by SHA-1 everywhere in the document. Yes, this can't be emphasized strongly enough. Results by Xiaoyun Wang from China presented at Crypto in Santa Barbara this summer showed that with 1 hr of precomputation on IBM P690, new collisons on 1024 bit messages could be generated every 15 sec. to 5 min. MD5 should be considered insecure and not used, and it should be EOL-ed in existing IETF protocols and replaced with SHA-1. SHA-1 appears to be secure after 40 rounds but has been broken up to 40 (it typically takes 80), which appears to be the limit possible with the current cryptanalysis technique. Whether its possible to break SHA-1 completely, remains to be seen. jak _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 15 09:55:06 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA05172 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 2004 09:55:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Ceagm-0007ep-1w for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 15 Dec 2004 10:03:40 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CeaHp-0007Mh-SS; Wed, 15 Dec 2004 09:37:53 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Cea8k-0005GE-Mf for mip6@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 15 Dec 2004 09:28:30 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA03499 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 2004 09:28:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp7.clb.oleane.net ([213.56.31.27]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CeaGz-0006x5-Gx for mip6@ietf.org; Wed, 15 Dec 2004 09:37:01 -0500 Received: from Pavillonquatre (upperside.rain.fr [194.206.151.59] (may be forged)) by smtp7.clb.oleane.net with ESMTP id iBFERe3N017135 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 2004 15:27:58 +0100 Message-Id: <200412151427.iBFERe3N017135@smtp7.clb.oleane.net> From: "Gunter" To: Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 15:27:56 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Thread-Index: AcTiskUYDtNIfCqkQUGWJ1MsGnoEKQ== X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 225414c974e0d6437992164e91287a51 Subject: [Mip6] WiMAX Summit'05 - Paris - France X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0991770693==" Sender: mip6-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 2bf730a014b318fd3efd65b39b48818c This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============0991770693== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_03F6_01C4E2BA.A730BC80" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_03F6_01C4E2BA.A730BC80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit . What is the business model for WiMAX? . What do we learn from earlier deployments? . What about the future extensions of the standard? . How is addressed the interoperability challenge? These questions, among others, will be addressed during the second edition of the WiMAX Summit to be organised in Paris next 5-8 April 2005. Get all details at: http://www.upperside.fr/wimax05/wimax2005intro.htm ------=_NextPart_000_03F6_01C4E2BA.A730BC80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

• = What is the business model for WiMAX?
• = What do we learn from earlier deployments?
• = What about the future extensions of the standard?
• = How is addressed the interoperability challenge?

These questions, among others, will be addressed during the second = edition of the WiMAX Summit to be organised in Paris next 5-8 April 2005.

 

Get all details = at:

http://www.u= pperside.fr/wimax05/wimax2005intro.htm

=

 

 

------=_NextPart_000_03F6_01C4E2BA.A730BC80-- --===============0991770693== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 --===============0991770693==-- From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 15 18:06:10 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA27730 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 2004 18:06:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CeiM4-0006iI-2b for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 15 Dec 2004 18:14:49 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CeiBV-0001gb-IH; Wed, 15 Dec 2004 18:03:53 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Cei0I-0006bw-0O for mip6@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 15 Dec 2004 17:52:18 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA26189 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 2004 17:52:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from darkstar.iprg.nokia.com ([205.226.5.69]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Cei8Z-0006JY-Uc for mip6@ietf.org; Wed, 15 Dec 2004 18:00:53 -0500 Received: (from root@localhost) by darkstar.iprg.nokia.com (8.11.0/8.11.0-DARKSTAR) id iBFMMSm01107; Wed, 15 Dec 2004 14:22:28 -0800 X-mProtect: <200412152222> Nokia Silicon Valley Messaging Protection Received: from mvdhcp141210.americas.nokia.com (172.18.141.210, claiming to be "iprg.nokia.com") by darkstar.iprg.nokia.com smtpdqdrA4Z; Wed, 15 Dec 2004 14:22:26 PST Message-ID: <41C0BFED.8010608@iprg.nokia.com> Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 14:51:25 -0800 From: Rajeev Koodli User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Francis Dupont Subject: Re: [Mip6] WG LC (Deadline Dec 18th, 04) for I-Ds: draft-ietf-mip6-auth-protocol-01.txt and draft-ietf-mip6-mn-ident-option-00.txt References: <200412141424.iBEEOMSj052267@givry.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr> In-Reply-To: <200412141424.iBEEOMSj052267@givry.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9466e0365fc95844abaf7c3f15a05c7d Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: mip6@ietf.org, Basavaraj.Patil@nokia.com X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip6-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 97adf591118a232206bdb5a27b217034 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Francis Dupont wrote: > - 5.2 MN-AAA auth mob option: the BA is not protected. This is a > major security issue. > > HA _could_ include MN-HA auth option in the BA. Also, I have few nits: - replace HAAA by AAAH - Authenticator is not a good term. It reflects a node rather than data. How about Authentication Data? - Section 5.2: is CHAP_SPI the only value defined? If so, the following statement should remove "When" to disambiguate. - Bootstrapping session key with HA using MN-AAA authentication is deliberately omitted? Perhaps making it clear would be useful. - I guess NAI is not optional in the BU containing MN - AAA auth option? Please fix the operational flow diagram/text Regards, -Rajeev _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 15 21:49:05 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA15471 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 2004 21:49:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Celpp-0003VM-J7 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 15 Dec 2004 21:57:45 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CeldW-0006cH-Iu; Wed, 15 Dec 2004 21:45:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Cela3-00064m-2i for mip6@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 15 Dec 2004 21:41:27 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA15079 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 2004 21:41:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.sfc.wide.ad.jp ([203.178.142.146]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CeliN-0003Lv-OP for mip6@ietf.org; Wed, 15 Dec 2004 21:50:04 -0500 Received: from net56-dhcp-53.sfc.keio.ac.jp (jules.nautilus6.org [203.178.138.2]) by mail.sfc.wide.ad.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACF9F4D847 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 2004 11:40:38 +0900 (JST) Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 11:43:53 +0900 From: Thierry Ernst To: mip6@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Mip6] FW: MIP6 agenda (Final) Message-Id: <20041216114353.5e7a1c98.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> In-Reply-To: <41AED97E.3000309@motorola.com> References: <039001c4d661$2b2fef30$596015ac@dcml.docomolabsusa.com> <20041130110332.0971bdae.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <03ed01c4d6f9$c7a7f310$596015ac@dcml.docomolabsusa.com> <20041201161031.09a4d372.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <41AE2D31.7090809@motorola.com> <20041202121958.4bac3900.ernst@sfc.wide.ad.jp> <41AED97E.3000309@motorola.com> Organization: Keio University X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.7 (GTK+ 1.2.10; powerpc-apple-darwin7.4.0) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 08170828343bcf1325e4a0fb4584481c Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip6-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 79899194edc4f33a41f49410777972f8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit No, for instance in cases where you want to use 2 ifaces at the same time. Thierry On Thu, 02 Dec 2004 09:59:42 +0100 Alexandru Petrescu wrote: > Thierry Ernst wrote: > > What's the point Alex ? To deploy MIP6, we need this multiple > > interface support > > Thierry, do you agree that a MIP6 host works ok today with multiple > interfaces ok and with no protocol modifications? _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Thu Dec 16 00:52:12 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA08261 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 2004 00:52:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Ceoh5-0007TH-6l for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Dec 2004 01:00:55 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CeoWi-0007d6-2B; Thu, 16 Dec 2004 00:50:12 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CeYkq-0002AI-Ic; Wed, 15 Dec 2004 07:59:44 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA27910; Wed, 15 Dec 2004 07:59:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from sophia.inria.fr ([138.96.64.20]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CeYt4-0004sA-3S; Wed, 15 Dec 2004 08:08:14 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sophia.inria.fr (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id iBFCgb7n004750; Wed, 15 Dec 2004 13:42:37 +0100 Received: from sophia.inria.fr (vesubie.inria.fr [138.96.112.27]) by sophia.inria.fr (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id iBFCcUko003419; Wed, 15 Dec 2004 13:38:30 +0100 Message-ID: <41C03046.DC65B8A1@sophia.inria.fr> Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 13:38:30 +0100 From: Sara Alouf X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.22 i686) X-Accept-Language: en, fr, pt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 To: undisclosed-recipients:; X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-1.4 (sophia.inria.fr [138.96.64.20]); Wed, 15 Dec 2004 13:42:09 +0100 (MET) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at sophia.inria.fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by sophia.inria.fr id iBFCgb7n004750 X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 827a2a57ca7ab0837847220f447e8d56 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 00:50:06 -0500 Subject: [Mip6] Performance 2005: Call for Papers X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip6-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: e472ca43d56132790a46d9eefd95f0a5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ** Apologies for multiple copies of this message ** *************** CALL FOR PAPERS *************** PERFORMANCE 2005 The 24th IFIP WG 7.3 International Symposium on Computer=20 Performance Modeling, Measurement and Evaluation October 3-7, 2005 Juan-les-Pins, France http://www-sop.inria.fr/maestro/performance2005/ Sponsored by IFIP WG 7.3, the Computer Performance Foundation=20 and INRIA The PERFORMANCE 2005 conference solicits papers on the=20 development and application of state-of-the-art analytic,=20 simulation, and measurement-based performance evaluation=20 techniques. Topics of interest include, but are not=20 limited to: * Performance-oriented design and evaluation of: communication networks, mobile and wireless systems, Internet servers and E-commerce systems, Web services, Web architectures, peer-to-peer systems, grid computing, computer architectures, database systems, operating systems, software systems, distributed systems,=20 multimedia systems, file and I/O systems, memory systems, real-time systems, and fault-tolerant systems. * Techniques and algorithms: analytic modeling, performance optimization, queueing analysis, stochastic scheduling, model verification and validation, power analysis, hybrid models, experimental design, system or network measurement and monitoring, workload characterization, simulation,=20 and statistical analysis. ** SUBMISSION GUIDELINES ** PAPERS: Papers should not exceed 20 double-spaced pages=20 including figures, tables and references. A limited number=20 of submitted papers will be accepted for a poster session.=20 Submissions must be made electronically as Postscript or=20 Adobe PDF files through the Conference Web site=20 (http://www-sop.inria.fr/maestro/performance2005/). In case of problems, please send papers by email to=20 papers.perf2005@sophia.inria.fr Papers will be selected on the basis of their originality,=20 technical standards, relevance and clarity.=20 Full papers will be published in a special issue of the Journal=20 Performance Evaluation (Elsevier) available at the conference. TUTORIAL SESSIONS: Tutorial proposals, not exceeding 3 pages,=20 have to include title, abstract, duration (1H30 or 3H),=20 intended audience, assumed background of attendees, name,=20 affiliation and a biographical sketch of the instructors.=20 Proposals should be sent to the tutorials co-chairs (tutorials.perf2005@sophia.inria.fr). HOT/CONTROVERSIAL TOPIC SESSIONS: Proposals are solicited for=20 a hot topic session, in which a group of speakers will present=20 and discuss their recent results in an area. Send proposals to=20 the program co-chairs, identifying the organizer of the session,=20 the session title, three to five speakers, the titles of their=20 talks, and a short abstract of each talk. ** IMPORTANT DATES ** FEBRUARY 22, 2005 Title, abstract and author affiliation due. MARCH 1, 2005 Submission of papers, hot topic proposals and tutorial proposals.=20 JUNE 1, 2005 Notification of acceptance. JULY 1, 2005 Camera ready copy due. For Further Information: info.perf2005@sophia.inria.fr http://www-sop.inria.fr/maestro/performance2005/ ** ORGANIZING COMMITTEE ** GENERAL CHAIR:=20 Philippe Nain, INRIA, France=20 PROGRAM COMMITTEE CO-CHAIRS:=20 Cheng-Shang Chang, National Tsing Hua U., Taiwan=20 Daniel A. Menasce, George Mason U., USA TUTORIALS CO-CHAIRS:=20 Eitan Altman, INRIA, France Zhen Liu, IBM T. J.Watson Reseach Center, USA LOCAL ARRANGEMENTS CO-CHAIRS:=20 Konstantin Avrachenkov, INRIA, France Ephie Deriche, INRIA, France =20 FINANCE CHAIR: Dany Sergeant, INRIA, France PUBLICITY CHAIR: Sara Alouf, INRIA, France PROCEEDINGS CHAIR:=20 Rudesindo N=FA=F1ez Queija, CWI, The Netherlands ** PROGRAM COMMITTEE ** Almeida, Virgilio UFMG, Brazil Baccelli, Francois ENS, France Bonald, Thomas France Telecom, France Borst, Sem CWI, the Netherlands Calzarossa, Mariacarla U. Pavia, Italy de Souza e Silva, Edmundo UFRJ, Brazil Duffield, Nick AT&T Research, USA Eager, Derek U. Saskatchewan, Canada Gelenbe, Erol Imperial College, UK=20 Golubchik, Leana USC, USA Harchol-Balter, Mor Carnegie Mellon U., USA Haring, Guenter U. Wien, Austria Harrison, Pete Imperial College, UK Haverkort, Boudewijn U. Twente, the Netherlands Herzog, Ulrich Friedrich Alexander U., Germany Hou, Jennifer U. Illinois Urbana Champaign, USA Hsu, Yarsun National Tsing Hua U., Taiwan Iazeolla, Giuseppe U. Roma "Tor Vergata", Italy Jean-Marie, Alain U. Montpellier & INRIA, France Kumar, Anurag IISc, India Kurose, Jim U. Massachusetts, USA Le Boudec, Jean-Yves EPFL, Switzerland Lee, Duan-Shin National Tsing Hua U., Taiwan Liebeherr, Jorg U. Virginia, USA Lindemann, Christoph U. Dortmund, Germany Lui, John Chinese U. of Hong Kong, China Marsan, Marco A. Politecnico di Torino, Italy Mazumdar, Ravi U. Waterloo, Canada Merchant, Arif HP Labs, USA Misra, Vishal Columbia U., USA Mitra, Debasis Bell Laboratories, USA Muntz, Richard R. UCLA, USA Nicol, David U. Illinois Urbana-Champaign, USA Perros, Harry North Carolina State U., USA Sanders, William U. Illinois Urbana-Champaign, USA Serazzi, Giuseppe Politecnico di Milano, Italy Setia, Sanjeev George Mason University, USA Smirni, Evgenia College of William and Mary, USA Squillante, Mark IBM Research, USA Stewart, William North Carolina State U., USA Thomasian, Alexander NJIT, USA Trivedi, Kishor Duke U., USA Tucci, Salvatore U. Roma "Tor Vergata", Italy Vernon, Mary U. Wisconsin-Madison, USA Verscheure, Olivier IBM Research, USA Williamson, Carey U. Calgary, Canada Woodside, C. Murray Carleton U., Canada Xia, Cathy IBM Research, USA Yao, David Columbia U., USA Zhang, Zhi-Li U. Minnesota, USA -- Sara Alouf Publicity Chair _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Thu Dec 16 00:54:01 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA08336 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 2004 00:54:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Ceoip-0007Vm-F2 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Dec 2004 01:02:44 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CeoWj-0007dY-FB; Thu, 16 Dec 2004 00:50:13 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CeZpT-0000YH-Eh for mip6@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 15 Dec 2004 09:08:35 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA02095 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 2004 09:08:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from smtp8.clb.oleane.net ([213.56.31.28]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CeZxh-0006RT-Ry for mip6@ietf.org; Wed, 15 Dec 2004 09:17:06 -0500 Received: from Pavillonquatre (upperside.rain.fr [194.206.151.59] (may be forged)) by smtp8.clb.oleane.net with ESMTP id iBFE83Qa013405 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 2004 15:08:03 +0100 Message-Id: <200412151408.iBFE83Qa013405@smtp8.clb.oleane.net> From: "Gunter" To: Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 15:08:01 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Thread-Index: AcTir3ybeFGJB5ivT32bXxDET+dUsA== X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d16ce744298aacf98517bc7c108bd198 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 00:50:07 -0500 Subject: [Mip6] WiMAX Summit'05 - Paris- France X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0035040244==" Sender: mip6-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d890c9ddd0b0a61e8c597ad30c1c2176 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============0035040244== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0392_01C4E2B7.DED96C20" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0392_01C4E2B7.DED96C20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit . What is the business model for WiMAX? . What do we learn from earlier deployments? . What about the future extensions of the standard? . How is addressed the interoperability challenge? These questions, among others, will be addressed during the second edition of the WiMAX Summit to be organised in Paris next 5-8 April 2005. Get all details at: http://www.upperside.fr/wimax05/wimax2005intro.htm ------=_NextPart_000_0392_01C4E2B7.DED96C20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

• = What is the business model for WiMAX?
• = What do we learn from earlier deployments?
• = What about the future extensions of the standard?
• = How is addressed the interoperability challenge?

These questions, among others, will be addressed during the second = edition of the WiMAX Summit to be organised in Paris next 5-8 April 2005.

 

Get all details = at:

http://www.upperside.fr/wimax05/wimax2005intro.htm

=

 

------=_NextPart_000_0392_01C4E2B7.DED96C20-- --===============0035040244== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 --===============0035040244==-- From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Thu Dec 16 16:55:12 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA16238 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 2004 16:55:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Cf3j8-0002aj-8M for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Dec 2004 17:04:02 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Cf3JV-0007iI-KH; Thu, 16 Dec 2004 16:37:33 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Cf3H3-0005kP-JP for mip6@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 16 Dec 2004 16:35:01 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA14049 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 2004 16:34:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from sj-iport-4.cisco.com ([171.68.10.86]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Cf3PX-0001lJ-SJ for mip6@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Dec 2004 16:43:49 -0500 Received: from sj-core-4.cisco.com (171.68.223.138) by sj-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP; 16 Dec 2004 13:34:32 -0800 X-BrightmailFiltered: true X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Received: from mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com (IDENT:mirapoint@mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com [171.71.163.14]) by sj-core-4.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id iBGLYPiv017877; Thu, 16 Dec 2004 13:34:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from kleung-w2k01.cisco.com (dhcp-128-107-163-95.cisco.com [128.107.163.95]) by mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com (MOS 3.4.5-GR) with ESMTP id AZW91256; Thu, 16 Dec 2004 13:44:22 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20041216133242.02270008@mira-sjcm-2.cisco.com> X-Sender: kleung@mira-sjcm-2.cisco.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 13:34:23 -0800 To: "James Kempf" From: Kent Leung Subject: Re: [Mip6] WG LC (Deadline Dec 18th, 04) for I-Ds: draft-ietf-mip6-auth-protocol-01.txt anddraft-ietf-mip6-mn-ident-option-00.txt In-Reply-To: <03bf01c4e266$809868b0$626015ac@dcml.docomolabsusa.com> References: <200412141424.iBEEOMSj052267@givry.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: a7d6aff76b15f3f56fcb94490e1052e4 Cc: mip6@ietf.org, Francis Dupont , Basavaraj.Patil@nokia.com X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip6-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: c1c65599517f9ac32519d043c37c5336 Hi James. Acknowledged. Unless there's disagreement, we'll replace MD5 context with SHA-1 in the document. Thanks. Kent At 05:41 PM 12/14/2004 -0800, James Kempf wrote: > > - another point: MD5 should be replaced by SHA-1 everywhere in the >document. > >Yes, this can't be emphasized strongly enough. > >Results by Xiaoyun Wang from China presented at Crypto in Santa Barbara this >summer showed that with 1 hr of precomputation on IBM P690, new collisons on >1024 bit messages could be generated every 15 sec. to 5 min. MD5 should be >considered insecure and not used, and it should be EOL-ed in existing IETF >protocols and replaced with SHA-1. > >SHA-1 appears to be secure after 40 rounds but has been broken up to 40 (it >typically takes 80), which appears to be the limit possible with the current >cryptanalysis technique. Whether its possible to break SHA-1 completely, >remains to be seen. > > jak > > > >_______________________________________________ >Mip6 mailing list >Mip6@ietf.org >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 -- | | Kent Leung :|: :|: IP Mobility Development :|||: :|||: IOS Technologies Division :|||||||: :|||||||: Voice: 408.526.5030 .:|||||||||:.:|||||||||:. Fax: 408.525.1653 c i s c o S y s t e m s Email: kleung@cisco.com _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Thu Dec 16 17:40:42 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA21623 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 2004 17:40:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Cf4RC-0004GW-38 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Dec 2004 17:49:34 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Cf4F7-00038C-8L; Thu, 16 Dec 2004 17:37:05 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Cf4Ci-00027W-A9 for mip6@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 16 Dec 2004 17:34:36 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA20712 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 2004 17:34:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from ithilien.qualcomm.com ([129.46.51.59]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Cf4LD-0003yl-7G for mip6@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Dec 2004 17:43:24 -0500 Received: from neophyte.qualcomm.com (neophyte.qualcomm.com [129.46.61.149]) by ithilien.qualcomm.com (8.12.10/8.12.5/1.0) with ESMTP id iBGMXueD025271; Thu, 16 Dec 2004 14:33:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from WLAU.qualcomm.com (wlau.qualcomm.com [129.46.74.167]) by neophyte.qualcomm.com (8.12.10/8.12.5/1.0) with ESMTP id iBGMXr9A021582; Thu, 16 Dec 2004 14:33:54 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <6.0.0.22.2.20041216141128.04139370@qcmail1.qualcomm.com> X-Sender: wlau@qcmail1.qualcomm.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.22 Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 14:33:53 -0800 To: Kent Leung , "James Kempf" From: Wing Cheong Lau Subject: Re: [Mip6] WG LC (Deadline Dec 18th, 04) for I-Ds: draft-ietf-mip6-auth-protocol-01.txt anddraft-ietf-mip6-mn-ident-option-00.txt In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20041216133242.02270008@mira-sjcm-2.cisco.com> References: <200412141424.iBEEOMSj052267@givry.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr> <4.3.2.7.2.20041216133242.02270008@mira-sjcm-2.cisco.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: e8a67952aa972b528dd04570d58ad8fe Cc: mip6@ietf.org, Francis Dupont , Basavaraj.Patil@nokia.com X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip6-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: f60d0f7806b0c40781eee6b9cd0b2135 At 01:34 PM 12/16/2004, Kent Leung wrote: >Hi James. > >Acknowledged. Unless there's disagreement, we'll replace MD5 context >with SHA-1 in the document. > >Thanks. > >Kent Dear Kent, Once you replace MD5 with SHA-1, will you be proposing corresponding extensions/ changes to RADIUS and CHAP so that one can use RADIUS/CHAP to authenticate a BU using MN-AAA authentication option in your draft ? (there is no mentioning of SHA-1 in RFC2865 or RFC 1996 so far). If not, how will the MN-AAA option interoperate with the AAA ? Regards, Wing >At 05:41 PM 12/14/2004 -0800, James Kempf wrote: >> > - another point: MD5 should be replaced by SHA-1 everywhere in the >>document. >> >>Yes, this can't be emphasized strongly enough. >> >>Results by Xiaoyun Wang from China presented at Crypto in Santa Barbara this >>summer showed that with 1 hr of precomputation on IBM P690, new collisons on >>1024 bit messages could be generated every 15 sec. to 5 min. MD5 should be >>considered insecure and not used, and it should be EOL-ed in existing IETF >>protocols and replaced with SHA-1. >> >>SHA-1 appears to be secure after 40 rounds but has been broken up to 40 (it >>typically takes 80), which appears to be the limit possible with the current >>cryptanalysis technique. Whether its possible to break SHA-1 completely, >>remains to be seen. >> >> jak >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Mip6 mailing list >>Mip6@ietf.org >>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 > >-- > | | Kent Leung > :|: :|: IP Mobility Development > :|||: :|||: IOS Technologies Division > :|||||||: :|||||||: Voice: 408.526.5030 >.:|||||||||:.:|||||||||:. Fax: 408.525.1653 > c i s c o S y s t e m s Email: kleung@cisco.com > >_______________________________________________ >Mip6 mailing list >Mip6@ietf.org >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Thu Dec 16 17:55:30 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA23054 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 2004 17:55:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Cf4fV-0004lm-56 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Dec 2004 18:04:22 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Cf4J4-0004h4-FT; Thu, 16 Dec 2004 17:41:10 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Cf4Hy-0004D5-8M for mip6@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 16 Dec 2004 17:40:02 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA21595 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 2004 17:39:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from sj-iport-5.cisco.com ([171.68.10.87]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Cf4QT-0004F7-Dw for mip6@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Dec 2004 17:48:50 -0500 Received: from sj-core-1.cisco.com (171.71.177.237) by sj-iport-5.cisco.com with ESMTP; 16 Dec 2004 14:40:14 -0800 X-BrightmailFiltered: true X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Received: from mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com (IDENT:mirapoint@mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com [171.71.163.14]) by sj-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id iBGMdPVw015700; Thu, 16 Dec 2004 14:39:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from alpeshw2k03 (sjc-vpn1-13.cisco.com [10.21.96.13]) by mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com (MOS 3.4.5-GR) with ESMTP id AZW98215; Thu, 16 Dec 2004 14:49:25 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <200412162249.AZW98215@mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com> From: "alpesh" To: "'Rajeev Koodli'" , "'Francis Dupont'" Subject: RE: [Mip6] WG LC (Deadline Dec 18th, 04) for I-Ds: draft-ietf-mip6-auth-protocol-01.txtand draft-ietf-mip6-mn-ident-option-00.txt Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 14:39:26 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4939.300 Thread-Index: AcTi/D5q/vlpbvM4Tcaoh0IlXTk0/AAw1fAw In-Reply-To: <41C0BFED.8010608@iprg.nokia.com> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: cd26b070c2577ac175cd3a6d878c6248 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: mip6@ietf.org, Basavaraj.Patil@nokia.com X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip6-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: b7b9551d71acde901886cc48bfc088a6 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Rajeev - Thanks for the comments, please see inline ... > -----Original Message----- > From: mip6-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mip6-bounces@ietf.org] On > Behalf Of Rajeev Koodli > Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 2:51 PM > To: Francis Dupont > Cc: mip6@ietf.org; Basavaraj.Patil@nokia.com > Subject: Re: [Mip6] WG LC (Deadline Dec 18th,04) for I-Ds: > draft-ietf-mip6-auth-protocol-01.txtand > draft-ietf-mip6-mn-ident-option-00.txt > > > > Francis Dupont wrote: > > > - 5.2 MN-AAA auth mob option: the BA is not protected. This is a > > major security issue. > > > > > HA _could_ include MN-HA auth option in the BA. Correct, that was an oversight - has been fixed now. > > Also, I have few nits: > > - replace HAAA by AAAH Sure. > - Authenticator is not a good term. It reflects a node rather > than data. > How about Authentication Data? Resonable. > - Section 5.2: is CHAP_SPI the only value defined? If so, the > following statement should remove "When" to disambiguate. Changed to have HMAC_SHA1 as the only algorithm now. > - Bootstrapping session key with HA using MN-AAA > authentication is deliberately omitted? Perhaps making it > clear would be useful. Yes, that is intentional to maintain the scope of the draft and converge in a timely manner. We may publish the session key generation draft soon. > - I guess NAI is not optional in the BU containing MN - AAA > auth option? Well, it can be optional - if the AAA uses IP address to identify the MN and MN Uses static addresses. We are keeping it optional (since the base draft uses static IP addresses). > Please fix the operational flow diagram/text Per Francis's comments, right? If so, I have modified it. Thx -a > > Regards, > > -Rajeev > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Mip6 mailing list > Mip6@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 > _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Thu Dec 16 18:16:04 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA25716 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 2004 18:16:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Cf4zG-0005U7-6K for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Dec 2004 18:24:56 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Cf4jO-0003tJ-QS; Thu, 16 Dec 2004 18:08:22 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Cf4g5-0002Bb-UN for mip6@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 16 Dec 2004 18:04:59 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA23992 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 2004 18:04:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from sj-iport-4.cisco.com ([171.68.10.86]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Cf4ob-000542-SF for mip6@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Dec 2004 18:13:46 -0500 Received: from sj-core-3.cisco.com (171.68.223.137) by sj-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP; 16 Dec 2004 15:04:31 -0800 X-BrightmailFiltered: true X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Received: from mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com (IDENT:mirapoint@mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com [171.71.163.14]) by sj-core-3.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id iBGN4N6n022007; Thu, 16 Dec 2004 15:04:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from kleung-w2k01.cisco.com (sjc-vpn5-490.cisco.com [10.21.89.234]) by mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com (MOS 3.4.5-GR) with ESMTP id AZX00900; Thu, 16 Dec 2004 15:14:21 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20041216145736.0396add8@mira-sjcm-2.cisco.com> X-Sender: kleung@mira-sjcm-2.cisco.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 15:04:21 -0800 To: Wing Cheong Lau From: Kent Leung Subject: Re: [Mip6] WG LC (Deadline Dec 18th, 04) for I-Ds: draft-ietf-mip6-auth-protocol-01.txt anddraft-ietf-mip6-mn-ident-option-00.txt In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.2.20041216141128.04139370@qcmail1.qualcomm.com> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20041216133242.02270008@mira-sjcm-2.cisco.com> <200412141424.iBEEOMSj052267@givry.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr> <4.3.2.7.2.20041216133242.02270008@mira-sjcm-2.cisco.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 73734d43604d52d23b3eba644a169745 Cc: mip6@ietf.org, James Kempf , Francis Dupont , Basavaraj.Patil@nokia.com X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip6-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 386e0819b1192672467565a524848168 Hi Wing. This is a generic issue, lack of RADIUS AVPs to identify authentication method to the AAA server. This was also raised in MIP4 WG for 3012bis. That draft is proceeding forth with admission to this fact. There needs to be an I-D in RADEXT WG to deal with this generic AAA issue. We plan to submit an I-D there. Kent At 02:33 PM 12/16/2004 -0800, Wing Cheong Lau wrote: >At 01:34 PM 12/16/2004, Kent Leung wrote: >>Hi James. >> >>Acknowledged. Unless there's disagreement, we'll replace MD5 context >>with SHA-1 in the document. >> >>Thanks. >> >>Kent >Dear Kent, > >Once you replace MD5 with SHA-1, will you be proposing corresponding >extensions/ changes to >RADIUS and CHAP so that one can use RADIUS/CHAP to authenticate a BU using >MN-AAA authentication >option in your draft ? (there is no mentioning of SHA-1 in RFC2865 or RFC >1996 so far). > >If not, how will the MN-AAA option interoperate with the AAA ? > >Regards, > >Wing > >>At 05:41 PM 12/14/2004 -0800, James Kempf wrote: >>> > - another point: MD5 should be replaced by SHA-1 everywhere in the >>>document. >>> >>>Yes, this can't be emphasized strongly enough. >>> >>>Results by Xiaoyun Wang from China presented at Crypto in Santa Barbara this >>>summer showed that with 1 hr of precomputation on IBM P690, new collisons on >>>1024 bit messages could be generated every 15 sec. to 5 min. MD5 should be >>>considered insecure and not used, and it should be EOL-ed in existing IETF >>>protocols and replaced with SHA-1. >>> >>>SHA-1 appears to be secure after 40 rounds but has been broken up to 40 (it >>>typically takes 80), which appears to be the limit possible with the current >>>cryptanalysis technique. Whether its possible to break SHA-1 completely, >>>remains to be seen. >>> >>> jak >>> >>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Mip6 mailing list >>>Mip6@ietf.org >>>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 >> >>-- >> | | Kent Leung >> :|: :|: IP Mobility Development >> :|||: :|||: IOS Technologies Division >> :|||||||: :|||||||: Voice: 408.526.5030 >>.:|||||||||:.:|||||||||:. Fax: 408.525.1653 >> c i s c o S y s t e m s Email: kleung@cisco.com >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Mip6 mailing list >>Mip6@ietf.org >>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 > > >_______________________________________________ >Mip6 mailing list >Mip6@ietf.org >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 -- | | Kent Leung :|: :|: IP Mobility Development :|||: :|||: IOS Technologies Division :|||||||: :|||||||: Voice: 408.526.5030 .:|||||||||:.:|||||||||:. Fax: 408.525.1653 c i s c o S y s t e m s Email: kleung@cisco.com _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Fri Dec 17 07:35:14 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA12159 for ; Fri, 17 Dec 2004 07:35:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CfHSt-0002mq-BB for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 17 Dec 2004 07:44:11 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CfHGP-0008Dv-Cp; Fri, 17 Dec 2004 07:31:17 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CfH9Y-0006xV-Qu for mip6@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 17 Dec 2004 07:24:13 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA11049 for ; Fri, 17 Dec 2004 07:24:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from key1.docomolabs-usa.com ([216.98.102.225] helo=fridge.docomolabs-usa.com ident=fwuser) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CfHI1-0002Pg-SO for mip6@ietf.org; Fri, 17 Dec 2004 07:33:08 -0500 Message-ID: <006a01c4e433$6a479e40$4f6015ac@dcml.docomolabsusa.com> From: "James Kempf" To: "Kent Leung" , "Wing Cheong Lau" References: <200412141424.iBEEOMSj052267@givry.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr> <4.3.2.7.2.20041216133242.02270008@mira-sjcm-2.cisco.com> <6.0.0.22.2.20041216141128.04139370@qcmail1.qualcomm.com> Subject: Re: [Mip6] WG LC (Deadline Dec 18th, 04) for I-Ds: draft-ietf-mip6-auth-protocol-01.txt anddraft-ietf-mip6-mn-ident-option-00.txt Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 04:24:47 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 386e0819b1192672467565a524848168 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: mip6@ietf.org, Francis Dupont , Basavaraj.Patil@nokia.com X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip6-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8de5f93cb2b4e3bee75302e9eacc33db Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'd suggest that someone write a draft for the radext WG proposing MD5 be replaced with SHA-1. I doubt that the security directorate will let draft-ietf-mip6-auth-protocol progress, even as Informational, if MD5 is in it. jak ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wing Cheong Lau" To: "Kent Leung" ; "James Kempf" Cc: ; "Francis Dupont" ; Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 2:33 PM Subject: Re: [Mip6] WG LC (Deadline Dec 18th, 04) for I-Ds: draft-ietf-mip6-auth-protocol-01.txt anddraft-ietf-mip6-mn-ident-option-00.txt > At 01:34 PM 12/16/2004, Kent Leung wrote: > >Hi James. > > > >Acknowledged. Unless there's disagreement, we'll replace MD5 context > >with SHA-1 in the document. > > > >Thanks. > > > >Kent > Dear Kent, > > Once you replace MD5 with SHA-1, will you be proposing corresponding > extensions/ changes to > RADIUS and CHAP so that one can use RADIUS/CHAP to authenticate a BU using > MN-AAA authentication > option in your draft ? (there is no mentioning of SHA-1 in RFC2865 or RFC > 1996 so far). > > If not, how will the MN-AAA option interoperate with the AAA ? > > Regards, > > Wing > > >At 05:41 PM 12/14/2004 -0800, James Kempf wrote: > >> > - another point: MD5 should be replaced by SHA-1 everywhere in the > >>document. > >> > >>Yes, this can't be emphasized strongly enough. > >> > >>Results by Xiaoyun Wang from China presented at Crypto in Santa Barbara this > >>summer showed that with 1 hr of precomputation on IBM P690, new collisons on > >>1024 bit messages could be generated every 15 sec. to 5 min. MD5 should be > >>considered insecure and not used, and it should be EOL-ed in existing IETF > >>protocols and replaced with SHA-1. > >> > >>SHA-1 appears to be secure after 40 rounds but has been broken up to 40 (it > >>typically takes 80), which appears to be the limit possible with the current > >>cryptanalysis technique. Whether its possible to break SHA-1 completely, > >>remains to be seen. > >> > >> jak > >> > >> > >> > >>_______________________________________________ > >>Mip6 mailing list > >>Mip6@ietf.org > >>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 > > > >-- > > | | Kent Leung > > :|: :|: IP Mobility Development > > :|||: :|||: IOS Technologies Division > > :|||||||: :|||||||: Voice: 408.526.5030 > >.:|||||||||:.:|||||||||:. Fax: 408.525.1653 > > c i s c o S y s t e m s Email: kleung@cisco.com > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Mip6 mailing list > >Mip6@ietf.org > >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 > > _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Fri Dec 17 13:00:18 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA15830 for ; Fri, 17 Dec 2004 13:00:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CfMXX-0005qb-Th for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 17 Dec 2004 13:09:20 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CfMBs-0002Ve-0U; Fri, 17 Dec 2004 12:46:56 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CfM41-0000jd-Ty for mip6@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 17 Dec 2004 12:38:50 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA13665 for ; Fri, 17 Dec 2004 12:38:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from sj-iport-2-in.cisco.com ([171.71.176.71] helo=sj-iport-2.cisco.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CfMCi-00053b-4n for mip6@ietf.org; Fri, 17 Dec 2004 12:47:48 -0500 Received: from sj-core-5.cisco.com (171.71.177.238) by sj-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 17 Dec 2004 09:42:45 -0800 Received: from mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com (IDENT:mirapoint@mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com [171.71.163.14]) by sj-core-5.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id iBHHcFsv026791; Fri, 17 Dec 2004 09:38:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from alpeshw2k03 (sjc-vpn1-725.cisco.com [10.21.98.213]) by mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com (MOS 3.4.5-GR) with ESMTP id AZX57516; Fri, 17 Dec 2004 09:48:20 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <200412171748.AZX57516@mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com> From: "alpesh" To: "'James Kempf'" , "'Kent Leung'" , "'Wing Cheong Lau'" Subject: RE: [Mip6] WG LC (Deadline Dec 18th, 04) for I-Ds: draft-ietf-mip6-auth-protocol-01.txtanddraft-ietf-mip6-mn-ident-option-00.txt Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 09:38:13 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4939.300 Thread-Index: AcTkNmb2OiIQoFgERxuXPaSfGLvi0gAKKv+Q In-Reply-To: <006a01c4e433$6a479e40$4f6015ac@dcml.docomolabsusa.com> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 22bbb45ef41b733eb2d03ee71ece8243 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: mip6@ietf.org, "'Francis Dupont'" , Basavaraj.Patil@nokia.com X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip6-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 68ba2b07ef271dba6ee42a93832cfa4c Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit James - Agree. I have moved on HMAC_SHA1/SHA1 where appropriate. As Kent mentioned, we are working on a draft to do SHA-1 auth for Radext WG -a > -----Original Message----- > From: mip6-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mip6-bounces@ietf.org] On > Behalf Of James Kempf > Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 4:25 AM > To: Kent Leung; Wing Cheong Lau > Cc: mip6@ietf.org; Francis Dupont; Basavaraj.Patil@nokia.com > Subject: Re: [Mip6] WG LC (Deadline Dec 18th,04) for I-Ds: > draft-ietf-mip6-auth-protocol-01.txtanddraft-ietf-mip6-mn-iden > t-option-00.txt > > I'd suggest that someone write a draft for the radext WG > proposing MD5 be replaced with SHA-1. > > I doubt that the security directorate will let > draft-ietf-mip6-auth-protocol progress, even as > Informational, if MD5 is in it. > > jak > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Wing Cheong Lau" > To: "Kent Leung" ; "James Kempf" > > Cc: ; "Francis Dupont" > ; > > Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 2:33 PM > Subject: Re: [Mip6] WG LC (Deadline Dec 18th, 04) for I-Ds: > draft-ietf-mip6-auth-protocol-01.txt > anddraft-ietf-mip6-mn-ident-option-00.txt > > > > At 01:34 PM 12/16/2004, Kent Leung wrote: > > >Hi James. > > > > > >Acknowledged. Unless there's disagreement, we'll replace > MD5 context > > >with SHA-1 in the document. > > > > > >Thanks. > > > > > >Kent > > Dear Kent, > > > > Once you replace MD5 with SHA-1, will you be proposing corresponding > > extensions/ changes to > > RADIUS and CHAP so that one can use RADIUS/CHAP to > authenticate a BU using > > MN-AAA authentication > > option in your draft ? (there is no mentioning of SHA-1 in > RFC2865 or RFC > > 1996 so far). > > > > If not, how will the MN-AAA option interoperate with the AAA ? > > > > Regards, > > > > Wing > > > > >At 05:41 PM 12/14/2004 -0800, James Kempf wrote: > > >> > - another point: MD5 should be replaced by SHA-1 > everywhere in the > > >>document. > > >> > > >>Yes, this can't be emphasized strongly enough. > > >> > > >>Results by Xiaoyun Wang from China presented at Crypto in > Santa Barbara > this > > >>summer showed that with 1 hr of precomputation on IBM P690, new > collisons on > > >>1024 bit messages could be generated every 15 sec. to 5 > min. MD5 should > be > > >>considered insecure and not used, and it should be EOL-ed > in existing > IETF > > >>protocols and replaced with SHA-1. > > >> > > >>SHA-1 appears to be secure after 40 rounds but has been > broken up to 40 > (it > > >>typically takes 80), which appears to be the limit > possible with the > current > > >>cryptanalysis technique. Whether its possible to break > SHA-1 completely, > > >>remains to be seen. > > >> > > >> jak > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >>_______________________________________________ > > >>Mip6 mailing list > > >>Mip6@ietf.org > > >>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 > > > > > >-- > > > | | Kent Leung > > > :|: :|: IP Mobility Development > > > :|||: :|||: IOS Technologies Division > > > :|||||||: :|||||||: Voice: 408.526.5030 > > >.:|||||||||:.:|||||||||:. Fax: 408.525.1653 > > > c i s c o S y s t e m s Email: kleung@cisco.com > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > > >Mip6 mailing list > > >Mip6@ietf.org > > >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Mip6 mailing list > Mip6@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 > _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Fri Dec 17 20:15:07 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA13677 for ; Fri, 17 Dec 2004 20:15:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CfTKK-00009P-1D for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 17 Dec 2004 20:24:11 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CfSvj-0003rE-WA; Fri, 17 Dec 2004 19:58:44 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CfNi8-0007cC-LN for mip6@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 17 Dec 2004 14:24:22 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA23796 for ; Fri, 17 Dec 2004 14:24:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail1.wpi.edu ([130.215.36.102]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CfNqp-00005X-Ck for mip6@ietf.org; Fri, 17 Dec 2004 14:33:19 -0500 Received: from mcafee.wpi.edu (mcafee.WPI.EDU [130.215.36.86]) by mail1.WPI.EDU (8.13.2/8.13.2) with SMTP id iBHJOHI6001832 for ; Fri, 17 Dec 2004 14:24:17 -0500 Received: from smtp.WPI.EDU(130.215.36.186) by mcafee.wpi.edu via csmap id 3358f4f2_5061_11d9_807d_00304811e63a_13542; Fri, 17 Dec 2004 14:23:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from wjlou1 (wjlou1.ece.WPI.EDU [130.215.16.157]) by smtp.WPI.EDU (8.13.2/8.13.2) with ESMTP id iBHJOG59011625 for ; Fri, 17 Dec 2004 14:24:16 -0500 From: "Wenjing Lou" To: Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 14:24:05 -0500 Message-ID: <004301c4e46d$f971f5e0$9d10d782@wjlou1> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: c2e58d9873012c90703822e287241385 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 19:58:42 -0500 Subject: [Mip6] CFP - MSAN 2005 (Multimedia Services Access Networks) X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip6-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 162d87dc0b780d17da9b1934777fd451 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ Please accept our apologies for multiple copies +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ Dear Colleagues, Attached below please see the CFP for MSAN 2005. Please notice that the submission deadline is Feb 4, 2005. Also, there are four workshops co-located with MSAN (http://msan.org/).=20 BWAN 2005: International Workshop on Broadband Wireless Access Network on fixed network (http://www.bwan.org/) COMNETS 2005: Deployment Models and Technologies for Broadband Community Networks AAA-IDEA 2005: International Workshop on Internet DElivery of Advanced Services (http://www.aaa-idea.org/) SID-WAS 2005: International Workshop on Standardization, Interoperability and Deployment of Wireless Access Solutions (http://standardswireless.org/) Happy holidays! Wenjing Lou (MSAN publicity co-chair) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Wenjing Lou, Ph.D Assistant Professor Dept. of Electrical and Computer Engineering Worcester Polytechnic Institute Atwater Kent Room 303 100 Institute Road Worcester, MA 01609 Tel: (508)831-5338 Fax: (508)831-5491 Email: wjlou@ece.wpi.edu =20 Web: http://www2.ece.wpi.edu/~wjlou/ =20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D CALL FOR PAPERS - MSAN 2005 First International Conference on Multimedia Services Access Networks Technically co-sponsored by IEEE Communications Society June 13-15, 2005, Orlando, Florida, USA =20 http://msan.org ** SCOPE ** Access networks (the =91last-=92 or =91first-=92 mile according to = provider=92s or customer=92s perspective) represent one of the most important parts in telecommunication systems, being responsible for the high-quality, reliable and secure delivery of services to end users. They also encompass some of the most demanding networking problems, such as the coexistence of a large variety of technologies based on both wired and wireless solutions, the need of optimal integration with the core network in terms of bandwidth and availability mismatch, the provision of an acceptable quality of service in very different application scenarios and traffic conditions. Perhaps, the most important challenge is that the design of access networks =96 from the analysis of requirements to the implementation and operation of the system =96 can only be successful if it is based on an integrated approach, taking into account the needs of different user groups, the technical constraints posed by different application technologies, as well as the related business and societal aspects. Within this framework, MSAN=9205 is intended to provide a unique international forum to explore the new research frontiers in the field of current and next generation multimedia service access networks. Original unpublished contributions are solicited that can improve the knowledge and practice in the integrated design of efficient access technologies and the relevant provision of advanced multimedia applications. ** TOPICS OF INTEREST ** Topics of interest are organized in three tracks addressing respectively: access network technologies (with particular emphasis on network design methodologies, protocols, analysis of performance and quality of service); multimedia service delivery (mainly focusing on the integration/adaptation between multimedia data processing and transmission techniques and access networks characteristics); implementation, operation and performance (providing an opportunity to present innovative applications and testbeds for the above technologies, as well as new approaches to testing and performance evaluation). Topics of interest include but are not limited to: Track 1: Access technologies and networks in MSANs (technologies and protocols) - Wire-based access (PON, FTTx, xDSL) - Wireless fixed access solutions (802.11x and 802.16 networks) - Mobile and nomadic access (3G and beyond, WiFi, etc.) - Other emerging technologies (power lines, CATV, DOCSIS, FSO) - Integration/migration among different technologies=20 (heterogeneous nets, seamless handover) - Integration with core network - Handling bandwidth and availability mismatch between optical and wireless Track 2: Delivery of multimedia services - Technologies for multimedia-multimodal services=20 - Streaming over IP (VoIP, packet video, rate control, error control) - Scheduling and allocation of network resources (bandwidth=20 allocation, power management, etc.) - Quality of service (at network and application level) - Terminals and devices - Security issues Track 3: MSAN implementation, operation and performance - Testbeds and laboratory experiments - Performance evaluation and measurements - Interoperability of last mile solutions - Case studies of novel networking solutions and services implemented - Application techniques, tools and experiences (e.g., health,=20 tourism, e-government, entertainment) - Specific operation and management issues - Planning and design methodology and tools ** CHAIRS ** General Co-Chairs: Aggelos K. Katsaggelos Northwestern University, USA Csaba A. Szabo BUTE, Budapest, Hungary Technical Program Co-Chairs: Francesco G.B. De Natale Univ. of Trento, Italy Nelson L.S. Fonseca Univ. of Campinas, Brasil Steering Committee Chair: Imrich Chlamtac Create-Net, Italy Local Chair: Ladislau L B=F6l=F6ni Univ. Central Florida, USA Local Vice-Chair: Damla Turgut Univ. Central Florida, USA Workshops Chair: Iacopo Carreras Create-Net, Italy Tutorials & Panels Chair: Viktoria Fodor KTH, Stockolm, Sweden Demo and Exhibit Chair: Scott A. Valcourt Univ. New Hampshire, USA Sponsorship Chair: Jing Deng University of New Orleans, USA Publications Chair: Luigi Atzori University of Cagliari, Italy Publicity Co-Chairs: Wenjing Lou Worcester Polytechnic Institute, USA Rolland Vida BUTE, Budapest, Hungary Financial Officer: Karen Decker ICST, USA ** Technical Program Committee ** K. Aizawa, Univ. Tokyo, JPN J. Apostolopoulos, HP Labs, USA M. Barni, Univ. Siena, ITA S. Bregni, Polytechnic Milan, ITA Y. Cai, Iowa State Univ., USA R. Civanlar, Koc Univ., TUR R. Cohen, Technion, ISR E. Delp, Purdue Univ., USA T. Ebrahimi, EPFL, SUI P. Frossard, EPFL, SUI B. Gandhi, Motorola, USA B. Gavish, South. Methodist Univ., USA A. Gelman, Panasonic Research, USA A. Gumaste, Fujitsu Labs., USA N. Jayant, GeorgiaTech, USA M.G. Kang, Yonsei Univ., KOR G. Kramer, Teknovus, USA M. Krunz, Univ. Arizona, USA R. Lagendijk, Delft Univ., NED G. Lemos, Natalnet, BRA T. Miki, NTT DoCoMo, JPN J. Modestino, Univ. Miami, USA A. Pakstas, London Metrop. Univ, GBR T. Pappas, Northwestern Univ., USA G. Pau, UCLA, USA F. Pereira, IST, POR D. Pitt, Univ. Santa Clara, USA C. Regazzoni, Univ. Genova, ITA M. Reisslein, Arizona State Univ., USA J. Roberts, France Telecom R&D, FRA I. Rubin, UCLA, USA Gy. Sallai, BUTE, HUN M.R. Salvador, CPqD Telecom, BRA T. Sikora, Technical Univ. Berlin, GER L.F. Soares, PUC-Rio, BRA W. Tavanapong, Iowa State Univ., USA M. Tekalp, Univ. Rochester, USA D. Tran, Univ. Dayton, USA H. Wang, Qualcomm, USA S. Wright, BellSouth, USA Y. Wang, Polytechnic Univ., USA H. Yu, Panasonic Research, USA Y.-Q. Zhang, Microsoft, USA ** SUBMISSION ** Prospective authors are invited to submit a full paper of no more than five (5) pages including figures and references. Submissions will be accepted only by EDAS electronic submission system, accessible through the conference website. The conference proceedings will be published by IEEE. ** IMPORTANT DATES ** Full papers due (to be received by): February 4, 2005 Notification of acceptance: March 31, 2005 Submission of camera-ready papers: April 30, 2005 ** FURTHER INFORMATION ** For further information, please go to our website: http://msan.org _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Fri Dec 17 21:03:56 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA13679 for ; Fri, 17 Dec 2004 20:15:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CfTKK-00009O-0k for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 17 Dec 2004 20:24:11 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CfSvj-0003r9-In; Fri, 17 Dec 2004 19:58:43 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CfMCc-0002bA-9o; Fri, 17 Dec 2004 12:47:42 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA14481; Fri, 17 Dec 2004 12:47:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from mx1.iit.cnr.it ([146.48.98.40] helo=mx.iit.cnr.it) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CfMLH-0005M5-MI; Fri, 17 Dec 2004 12:56:40 -0500 Received: from localhost (mx.iit.cnr.it [127.0.0.1]) by mx.iit.cnr.it (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE7BE2EFB1; Fri, 17 Dec 2004 18:46:54 +0100 (CET) Received: from mx.iit.cnr.it ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mx.iit.cnr.it [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 16316-04; Fri, 17 Dec 2004 18:46:49 +0100 (CET) Received: from delmastro1 (delmastrof.iit.cnr.it [146.48.98.74]) by mx.iit.cnr.it (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4686E2EF7C; Fri, 17 Dec 2004 18:46:13 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <018801c4e460$5b5643f0$4a623092@delmastro1> From: "Franca Delmastro" To: "Franca Delmastro" Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 18:46:30 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Virus-Scanned: by Content Checker at iit.cnr.it X-Spam-Score: 2.3 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 10dcc25e55b9b5f7d6ded516404bdc4c X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 19:58:42 -0500 Subject: [Mip6] ACC 2005 - NEW SUBMISSION DEADLINE! X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0362660846==" Sender: mip6-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 1.7 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 07e9b4af03a165a413ec6e4d37ae537b This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============0362660846== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0185_01C4E468.B8E76280" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0185_01C4E468.B8E76280 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 *************************************************** ************* NEW SUBMISSION DEADLINE!*************=20 *************************************************** We apologize in advance if you receive multiple copies of this CFP.=20 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- = Call for Papers=20 ACC 2005=20 1st IEEE WoWMoM Workshop on=20 Autonomic Communications and Computing=20 June 13, 2005 - Taormina, Italy=20 in conjunction with IEEE WoWMoM 2005=20 http://www.autonomic-communication.org/acc/index.html=20 Sponsored by IEEE WoWMoM=20 Ubiquitous and self-organized Internet, ad hoc networks, wireless = sensor=20 networks are expected to be some of the basic building blocks of=20 pervasive computing=20 environments. However, the promise of pervasive computing environments = will not be realized unless these systems can effectively "disappear". = In order to do that they need to become autonomous by managing their = own=20 evolution and configuration changes without explicit user or=20 administrator action.=20 The goal of this workshop is to provide a forum to exchange ideas,=20 discuss solutions, and share experiences among researchers,=20 professionals, and application developers both from industry and=20 academia. Original papers addressing both theoretical and practical=20 aspects of autonomic communications and computing are solicited. = Papers=20 describing prototype implementations and deployment are particularly=20 welcome. Topics of interest include but are not limited to:=20 - Architecture and models for autonomic communication and computing = systems=20 - Tools and techniques for designing, analyzing and building=20 autonomic systems and networks=20 - Adaptive security for self protection of systems and networks=20 - Economic, biological and social models used for autonomic=20 communications=20 - Novel management techniques for autonomic communication and=20 computing systems=20 - Sensing, monitoring and measurements for self-managing systems = and=20 networks=20 - Languages, development and securely programmable environments for = autonomic communications systems=20 - Advanced technologies for enabling autonomic communication and=20 computing systems=20 - Autonomic communication and computing testbeds and measurements=20 SUBMISSION INSTRUCTIONS=20 Papers should contain original material and not be previously = published,=20 or currently submitted for consideration elsewhere. Manuscripts must = be=20 limited to 5 pages in IEEE 8.5x11 conference format, and formatted in=20 strict accordance with the IEEE Computer Society author guidelines. = All=20 submissions will be handled electronically. Authors should prepare a = PDF=20 file and submit it to acc2005@autonomic-communication.org. Accepted=20 papers will be published by the IEEE Computer Society Press in the=20 combined WoWMoM 2005 workshop proceedings.=20 IMPORTANT DATES:=20 Papers due -------------------------- Jan. 3, 2005=20 Notification of acceptance ------------ Feb. 7, 2005=20 Camera-ready papers due --------------- Feb. 28, 2005=20 TECHNICAL PROGRAM COMMITTEE N. Anerousis, IBM T.J. Watson Research Center, USA=20 O. Babaoglu, University of Bologna, Italy=20 L. Chapin, ACM, USA=20 M. Conti, IIT-CNR, Italy=20 S. Crosby, Intel Research, USA=20 C. Diot, INTEL, UK=20 J. Dowling, Trinity College Dublin, Ireland=20 S. Fdida, UPMC, France=20 L. Gambardella, IDSIA, Switzerland=20 W.-D. Grover, TRLabs and University of Alberta, Canada=20 P. Gunningberg, Upsala University, Sweden=20 H.-G. Hegering, Munich University, Germany=20 D. Hutchison, ULanc, UK=20 D. Lewis, Trinity College, Dublin=20 A. Sahai, HP Labs, USA=20 J. Sch=F6nw=E4lder, University Bremen, Germany=20 A. Seneviratne, UNSW, Australia=20 F. Sestini, FET, CEC=20 I. Stavrakakis, UOA, Greece=20 J. Strassner, MDAPCE, USA=20 C. Tschudin, University of Basel, Switzerland=20 J. Vicente, ISTG Research, Intel, USA=20 L. Wolf, U. Braunschweig, Germany =20 L. T. Yang, St. Francis Xavier University, Canada For more information, please contact the workshop co-organizer=20 Silvia Giordano (silvia.giordano@supsi.ch), or consult the workshop=20 webpage.=20 ************************************************************ Franca Delmastro Pervasive Computing & Networking Lab. (PerLab) IIT- National Research Council via G. Moruzzi,1 56124 Pisa, Italy phone: +39 050 3152407 (direct) ******************************************************** ------=_NextPart_000_0185_01C4E468.B8E76280 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
 
=
***************************************************
*************= NEW=20 SUBMISSION DEADLINE!*************=20
***************************************************
 

We apologize in advance if you = receive=20 multiple copies of this CFP.=20 =
---------------------------------------------------------------------= -=20
 
Call for Papers
 
ACC 2005
 
1st IEEE WoWMoM Workshop on =
Autonomic=20 Communications and Computing
 
June 13, 2005 - Taormina, Italy =
in=20 conjunction with IEEE WoWMoM 2005
 
 
Sponsored by IEEE WoWMoM =
 
Ubiquitous and self-organized = Internet, ad hoc=20 networks, wireless sensor
networks are expected to be some of the = basic=20 building blocks of
pervasive computing
environments. However, = the=20 promise of pervasive computing environments
will not be realized = unless=20 these systems can effectively "disappear".
In order to do that = they need=20 to become autonomous by managing their own
evolution and = configuration=20 changes without explicit user or
administrator action. =
 
The goal of this workshop is to = provide a=20 forum to exchange ideas,
discuss solutions, and share experiences = among=20 researchers,
professionals, and application developers both from = industry=20 and
academia. Original papers addressing both theoretical and = practical=20
aspects of autonomic communications and computing are solicited. = Papers=20
describing prototype implementations and deployment are = particularly=20
welcome. Topics of interest include but are not limited to: =
 
-    Architecture = and models=20 for autonomic communication and computing
systems =
-   =20 Tools and techniques for designing, analyzing and building =
autonomic=20 systems and networks
-    Adaptive security for = self=20 protection of systems and networks
-    Economic,=20 biological and social models used for autonomic
communications=20
-    Novel management techniques for  = autonomic=20 communication and
computing systems
-    = Sensing,=20 monitoring and measurements for self-managing systems and
networks =
-    Languages, development and securely = programmable=20 environments for
autonomic communications systems =
-   =20 Advanced technologies for enabling autonomic communication and =
computing=20 systems
-    Autonomic communication and computing = testbeds=20 and measurements
 
 
 
SUBMISSION INSTRUCTIONS =
 
Papers should contain original = material and=20 not be previously published,
or currently submitted for = consideration=20 elsewhere. Manuscripts must be
limited to 5 pages in IEEE 8.5x11=20 conference format, and formatted in
strict accordance with the = IEEE=20 Computer Society author guidelines. All
submissions will be = handled=20 electronically. Authors should prepare a PDF
file and submit it to = acc2005@autonomic-communication.org. Accepted
papers will be published by = the IEEE=20 Computer Society Press in the
combined WoWMoM 2005 workshop = proceedings.=20
IMPORTANT DATES:
 
Papers due  =20 -------------------------- Jan. 3,  2005
Notification of = acceptance=20 ------------ Feb. 7,  2005
Camera-ready papers due = ---------------=20 Feb. 28, 2005
 

TECHNICAL PROGRAM = COMMITTEE
 

N. Anerousis, IBM T.J. Watson = Research=20 Center, USA
O. Babaoglu, University of Bologna, Italy
L. = Chapin, ACM,=20 USA
M. Conti, IIT-CNR, Italy
S. Crosby, Intel Research, USA =
C.=20 Diot, INTEL, UK
J. Dowling, Trinity College Dublin, Ireland
S. = Fdida,=20 UPMC, France
L. Gambardella, IDSIA, Switzerland
W.-D. Grover, = TRLabs=20 and University of Alberta, Canada
P. Gunningberg, Upsala = University,=20 Sweden
H.-G. Hegering, Munich University, Germany
D. = Hutchison, ULanc,=20 UK
D. Lewis, Trinity College, Dublin
A. Sahai, HP Labs, USA =
J.=20 Sch=F6nw=E4lder, University Bremen, Germany
A. Seneviratne, UNSW, = Australia=20
F. Sestini, FET, CEC
I. Stavrakakis, UOA, Greece
J. = Strassner,=20 MDAPCE, USA
C. Tschudin, University of Basel, Switzerland
J. = Vicente,=20 ISTG Research, Intel, USA
L. Wolf, U. Braunschweig, Germany  =
L.=20 T. Yang, St. Francis Xavier University, Canada
 
 
 

For more information, please = contact the=20 workshop co-organizer
Silvia Giordano (silvia.giordano@supsi.ch), or=20 consult the workshop
webpage.
 
 
************************************************************
= Franca=20 Delmastro
Pervasive Computing & Networking Lab. = (PerLab)
 
IIT- National Research = Council
via G.=20 Moruzzi,1
56124 Pisa, Italy
phone: +39 050 3152407=20 = (direct)
********************************************************
------=_NextPart_000_0185_01C4E468.B8E76280-- --===============0362660846== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 --===============0362660846==-- From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Sat Dec 18 14:52:13 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA14341 for ; Sat, 18 Dec 2004 14:52:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Cfklb-0002hk-Ne for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 18 Dec 2004 15:01:27 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Cfkac-0002xk-LK; Sat, 18 Dec 2004 14:50:06 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CfkYm-0002NB-Er for mip6@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 18 Dec 2004 14:48:12 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA14043 for ; Sat, 18 Dec 2004 14:48:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from p130.piuha.net ([193.234.218.130]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Cfkhg-0002aW-43 for mip6@ietf.org; Sat, 18 Dec 2004 14:57:24 -0500 Received: from kolumbus.fi (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C4D3898A6 for ; Sat, 18 Dec 2004 21:47:39 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <41C48949.9080005@kolumbus.fi> Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 21:47:21 +0200 From: Jari Arkko User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7b) Gecko/20040316 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: mip6@ietf.org References: <697DAA22C5004B4596E033803A7CEF4403B1C2D5@daebe007.americas.nokia.com> In-Reply-To: <697DAA22C5004B4596E033803A7CEF4403B1C2D5@daebe007.americas.nokia.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8fbbaa16f9fd29df280814cb95ae2290 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Mip6] Comments on draft-ietf-mip6-mn-ident-option-00.txt X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip6-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7da5a831c477fb6ef97f379a05fb683c Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have reviewed this document. Here are my comments: Substantial: > [RFC2486] Aboba, B. and M. Beadles, "The Network Access Identifier", RFC 2486, January 1999. It may be appropriate to refer to draft-ietf-radext-rfc2486bis-03.txt instead. This document is in IETF LC at the moment, which means that its in front of the ident-option draft; reference delay should not be a problem. One good reason for switching to the bis reference is that the ABNF in the original RFC had a number of problems. > If this option is present in the Binding Update, it MUST be included in the corresponding reply (Binding Acknowledgement). Hmm... why? Does not seem to be grounds for a MUST. But I wonder why you need it in the first place. > 5. IANA Considerations This one is missing the text about the subtype registry. Here's a suggestion: In addition, the IANA needs to create a new namespace for the subtype field of the Mobile Node Identifier Option. The currently allocated values are as follows: NAI (defined in this document) [1] New values for this namespace can be allocated using Standards Action [RFC 2434]. > it MUST be present in all subsequent Binding Updates > used to renew the binding cache entry. Is this really necessary? Presumably you could store the identifier in the BCE. This would also provide some privacy benefits, see also below. > 4. Security Considerations > > None. This document defines new identifiers for a mobile node and > does not introduce new security threats. I don't think this covers it completely. Here's some suggested text that deals with a few issues: Mobile IPv6 already contains one mechanism for identifying mobile nodes, the Home Address Option [RFC 3775]. As a result, the vulnerabilities of the new option defined in this document are similar to those that already exist for Mobile IPv6. In particular, the use of a permanent, stable identifier may compromise the privacy of the user, making it possible to track a particular device or user as it moves through different locations. In addition, since an NAI reveals the home affiliation of a user, it may assist an attacker in determining the identity of the user, help the attacker in targeting specific victims, or assist in further probing of the username space. These vulnerabilities can be addressed through various mechanisms, such as those discussed below: o Encrypting traffic at link layer such that other users on the same link do not see the identifiers. This mechanism does not help against attackers on the rest of the path between the mobile node and its home agent. o Encrypting the whole packet, such as when using IPsec to protect the communications with the home agent [RFC 3776]. o Using an authentication mechanism that enables the use of privacy NAIs [RFC2486bis] or temporary, changing "pseudonyms" as identifiers. In any case, it should be noted that as the identifier option is only needed on the first registration at the home agent and subsequent registrations can use the home address, the window of privacy vulnerability in this document is reduced as compared to the RFC 3775. In addition, this document is a part of a solution to allow dynamic home addresses to be used. This is an improvement to privacy as well, and affects both communications with the home agent and the correspondent nodes, both of which have to be told the home address. > The MN-NAI mobility option uses an identifier of the form user@realm > [RFC2486]. Perhaps you could indicate whether you allow the use of the privacy, internationalization, or bang syntaxes from RFC2486bis. Editorial: > Alignment requirements: > > This option does not have any alignment requirements. This looks like a field description. Change to: > This option does not have any alignment requirements. (That is, indent as regular text and delete the heading.) > Title: MN Identifier Option for Mobile IPv6 Change to "Mobile Node Identifier Option for Mobile IPv6". > 3. MN Identifier option 3.1 MN-NAI mobility option I guess I'm confused here. You are defining just one Mobile IPv6 option. I think its name should be the "Mobile Node Identifier Option". If you want to have a subsection 3.1 to talk about the case when the type of identifier is a NAI, that's fine. But the current 3.1. sounds like you were defining another option. > authentication enabling extension Change to "authentication related extension" > IANA should record value for this new Mobility Option. ... should record *a* value ... --Jari _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Sun Dec 19 02:36:14 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA09970 for ; Sun, 19 Dec 2004 02:36:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Cfvl0-0006kN-Lb for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 19 Dec 2004 02:45:34 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Cfvai-0000YX-H1; Sun, 19 Dec 2004 02:34:56 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Cfva7-0000S8-QQ for mip6@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 19 Dec 2004 02:34:20 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA09831 for ; Sun, 19 Dec 2004 02:34:18 -0500 (EST) From: john.loughney@nokia.com Received: from mgw-x4.nokia.com ([131.228.20.27]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Cfvj8-0006iq-3c for mip6@ietf.org; Sun, 19 Dec 2004 02:43:38 -0500 Received: from esdks003.ntc.nokia.com (esdks003.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.138.158]) by mgw-x4.nokia.com (Switch-2.2.8/Switch-2.2.8) with ESMTP id iBJ7YDK17548; Sun, 19 Dec 2004 09:34:14 +0200 (EET) X-Scanned: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 09:33:39 +0200 Nokia Message Protector V1.3.31 2004060815 - RELEASE Received: (from root@localhost) by esdks003.ntc.nokia.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) id iBJ7Xddk011939; Sun, 19 Dec 2004 09:33:39 +0200 Received: from mgw-int2.ntc.nokia.com (172.21.143.97) by esdks003.ntc.nokia.com 00NPyZBb; Sun, 19 Dec 2004 09:33:38 EET Received: from esebh001.NOE.Nokia.com (esebh001.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.138.28]) by mgw-int2.ntc.nokia.com (Switch-2.2.8/Switch-2.2.8) with ESMTP id iBJ7Xb303370; Sun, 19 Dec 2004 09:33:37 +0200 (EET) Received: from esebe001.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.21.138.30]) by esebh001.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6881); Sun, 19 Dec 2004 09:32:32 +0200 Received: from esebe056.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.21.143.51]) by esebe001.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6881); Sun, 19 Dec 2004 09:32:30 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6603.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [Mip6] Comments on draft-ietf-mip6-mn-ident-option-00.txt Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 09:32:30 +0200 Message-ID: <3CF661B1787ABF41A869BE20108F8D6D43250E@esebe056.ntc.nokia.com> Thread-Topic: [Mip6] Comments on draft-ietf-mip6-mn-ident-option-00.txt Thread-Index: AcTlO0uIQKrJBixNR263UP1QVeUxnQAYXEwQ To: , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Dec 2004 07:32:30.0636 (UTC) FILETIME=[E5CE06C0:01C4E59C] X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Scan-Signature: de4f315c9369b71d7dd5909b42224370 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip6-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 798b2e660f1819ae38035ac1d8d5e3ab Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jari, > Substantial: >=20 > > [RFC2486] Aboba, B. and M. Beadles, "The Network Access=20 > Identifier", RFC 2486, January 1999. >=20 > It may be appropriate to refer to draft-ietf-radext-rfc2486bis-03.txt > instead. This document is in IETF LC at the moment, which means that > its in front of the ident-option draft; reference delay should not > be a problem. One good reason for switching to the bis reference > is that the ABNF in the original RFC had a number of problems. I agree with this. rfc2486bis should be an RFC before long, and it does correct a number of problems in the original RFC. John _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Sun Dec 19 04:34:35 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA18229 for ; Sun, 19 Dec 2004 04:34:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CfxbZ-0005Gx-Aj for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 19 Dec 2004 04:43:57 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CfxR8-0008IU-NK; Sun, 19 Dec 2004 04:33:10 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CfxQ2-00087h-H2 for mip6@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 19 Dec 2004 04:32:03 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA18167 for ; Sun, 19 Dec 2004 04:31:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from p130.piuha.net ([193.234.218.130]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CfxZ3-0005EC-Ct for mip6@ietf.org; Sun, 19 Dec 2004 04:41:22 -0500 Received: from kolumbus.fi (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 639CF89839 for ; Sun, 19 Dec 2004 11:31:26 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <41C54A5B.90000@kolumbus.fi> Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 11:31:07 +0200 From: Jari Arkko User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7b) Gecko/20040316 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: mip6@ietf.org References: <697DAA22C5004B4596E033803A7CEF4403B1C2D5@daebe007.americas.nokia.com> In-Reply-To: <697DAA22C5004B4596E033803A7CEF4403B1C2D5@daebe007.americas.nokia.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 2a76bcd37b1c8a21336eb0a1ea6bbf48 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Mip6] Comments on draft-ietf-mip6-auth-protocol-01.txt X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip6-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ded6070f7eed56e10c4f4d0d5043d9c7 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (I'm hoping its still Dec 18th somewhere in the world.) I have reviewed this document. Like the identifier draft, its in pretty good shape, and as I have stated before I do believe we need to have support for AAA-based authentication. But there are a few issues that need to be corrected. The most important issue is putting back the mandatory support for RO/RR. Also, I have identified a number places where the document could define a simpler protocol. Here are my comments: Substantial: > The confidentiality protection of Return Routability messages > and ... is outside the scope of this document. I do not think this is appropriate for the following reasons: o Route optimization relies on encryption of HOTI messages as they pass through the home agent. o Route optimization is an integral part of Mobile IPv6. o In practise you cannot control where this authentication option is used. (I do agree that in the 3GPP2 environment the usage would be safe, but that's besides the point.) As a result of not protecting the HOTI messages you are in effect breaking Mobile IPv6's route optimization, because we can no longer trust that everyone is capable of doing it in a secure manner. You are also deviating from the base RFC which requires support for HOTI protection. Fortunately, protecting the HOTI messages is very easy, as has been demonstrated in an earlier version of your draft. And it does not require IPsec. Please put the support back in. Note that I'm not arguing that you have to use this protection. Like in RFC 3775 & 3776, the use of the encryption can be optional. But we really need to make it mandatory to implement. > MN MAY use Message Identifier option as defined in Section 6 for > replay protection. > ... > The format of the timestamp mobility option is as defined in Section > 6. This option uses the subtype value of 1. The Identification > field carries timestamp for replay protection. I am somewhat concerned about the extensive optionality and additional replay protection schemes, from a complexity point of view. Do we really expect that there is going to be yet another replay protection schemes? Is there a reason why we don't want to use the option all the time? Ease of analysis & implementation simplicity would be some of the benefits... > Also, this rejection and using sequence > number as a nonce in rejection is a new behavior that is not > specified in [RFC3775]. This seems to contradict my understanding. See Section 9.5.1 and Status code 135 usage. > Subtype: > > A number assigned to identify the entity and/or mechanism to be > used to authenticate the message. I think it would make more sense for this draft to define the specific authentication mechanism, and not act as a general purpose format which could be extended for other authentication mechanisms in the future. > | BU to HA | > (a) |----------------------------------------------------->| > | (HoA option, MN-ID option [optional], | > | Message ID option [optional], authentication option)| Why is the home address option mandatory in this figure? One of the benefits of this mechanism should be that a home address could be allocated by the home agent during the authentication process. Actually, I think you want at least one of HOA and NAI options. And you should explicitly define the semantics. That is, if you don't have a NAI then you must have a HOA, and the secret is looked up based on the HOA. If you have a NAI only, you look up the secret and the HOA based on that. If you have both, they must match (NAI must be authorized to use the home address). > MN MUST include this option in a BU if it shares a security > association with the HA. HA MUST include this option in the BA if > IPsec is not used and it has a security association with the MN. A "security association" may be too general. Its a security association of a certain kind that you need, not others. For instance, if the MN has only an IPsec SA or a TLS association with the home agent, they should not attempt to use this option. Suggestion: give a name X for your authentication method and start referring to the "X security associations". Here X could be, say, "Shared-Key Mobile IPv6 Authentication". > The value 5 is reserved for use by 3GPP2. This seems strange. If 3GPP2 wants the IETF to define an RFC for a new feature within Mobile IPv6, you would expect the semantics of value 5 to be defined. Which algorithms are 3GPP2 actually using? Or is the value 5 just a relic from older systems, dealing with Mobile IPv4? > 8. IANA Considerations Both Subtype fields are missing. New namespaces need to be created. I'd actually prefer to simplify the draft by not including all such generality -- we have enough Mobility Options to allocate new stuff if necessary. But if you keep the subtypes, you need a Standards Action or IESG Approval [RFC 2434] procedure for allocating new ones. > 5.1 MN-HA authentication mobility option . . . . . . . . . . . 8 > 5.1.1 Processing Considerations . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 > 5.2 MN-AAA authentication mobility option . . . . . . . . . . 9 > 5.2.1 Processing Considerations . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10 I am curious as to why we need both. Where the 2-message authentication scheme is appropriate, it seems that a CHAP-style scheme is adequate. In other areas we don't usually see the fact that there is or is not AAA at the other side. For instance, we don't know that in PPP, we don't know that in WLAN. (There are certain reasons for knowing what's on the other side, but the protocols for that are pretty far from what is done here; I don't think that is the intention here.) So why do we need more than the Section 5.2? Or is this again something inherited from the Mobile IPv4 side? But I may be missing something obvious. In any case, it would really help if people would post what exactly the 3GPP2 intends to use from this draft, all options or just some. Editorial: General: I tend to like "the mobile node ..." type of text better than "the MN ...". But maybe that's a personal preference. > MN MAY use NAI option as defined in [MN_Ident] to identify itself I believe the correct name for the option is "Mobile Node Identification option", not the "NAI option". But are you saying that you can use only subtype 1 identifier, the NAI? Better not say anything, just say that you can use the option. > Upon receiving a BU from the MN, the HA SHALL extract the MN-AAA SHALL? Maybe MUST instead? > 6. Mobility message identification option I got confused a couple of times, thinking this was a mobile node identification option. The purpose of the option in this document, however, is replay protection. Suggest using "replay" or "timestamp" somewhere in the name. Maybe "Mobility Replay Protection Option". > The value 2 is suggested for CHAP_SPI as defined in section Section > 5.2. > > The value 3 is suggested for HMAC_SHA1. Is value 3 what is being described in Section 5.1? If yes, say so. If no, I may be confused. --Jari _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Mon Dec 20 10:22:20 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA06072 for ; Mon, 20 Dec 2004 10:22:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CgPVt-000343-8p for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 20 Dec 2004 10:31:58 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CgPFs-0004dg-TQ; Mon, 20 Dec 2004 10:15:24 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CgP9U-0001yw-Ds for mip6@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Dec 2004 10:08:48 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA04728 for ; Mon, 20 Dec 2004 10:08:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from laposte.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr ([192.44.77.17]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CgPIl-0002gI-Dn for mip6@ietf.org; Mon, 20 Dec 2004 10:18:23 -0500 Received: from givry.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr (givry.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr [193.52.74.194]) by laposte.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr (8.11.6p2/8.11.6/2003.04.01) with ESMTP id iBKF89I30583; Mon, 20 Dec 2004 16:08:09 +0100 Received: from givry.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr (localhost.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr [127.0.0.1]) by givry.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id iBKF88Sj081344; Mon, 20 Dec 2004 16:08:09 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from dupont@givry.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr) Message-Id: <200412201508.iBKF88Sj081344@givry.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr> From: Francis Dupont To: Vijay Devarapalli Subject: Re: [Mip6] WG LC (Deadline Dec 18th, 04) for I-Ds: draft-ietf-mip6-auth-protocol-01.txt and draft-ietf-mip6-mn-ident-option-00.txt In-reply-to: Your message of Tue, 14 Dec 2004 11:08:17 PST. <41BF3A21.9000102@iprg.nokia.com> Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 16:08:08 +0100 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-milter (http://amavis.org/) at enst-bretagne.fr X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 798b2e660f1819ae38035ac1d8d5e3ab Cc: mip6@ietf.org, Basavaraj.Patil@nokia.com X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip6-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 2409bba43e9c8d580670fda8b695204a In your previous mail you wrote: > - 6 message indent: anti-replay is important, IMHO at least SHOULD is > required. in most cases, the sequence number in the Binding Update is enough for replay protection when the authentication option protocol is used. if in a particular deployment, (which uses the authentication option protocol), the sequence number is not sufficient, the message identification option should be used. that why it is a MAY in the document. => I have no concern to get the function from the "deployment environment" but in this case the constraints for the "deployment environment" must be explicited (currently we can only assume that the "deployment environment" provides authentication and authorization). Note it is possible the "deployment environment" needs the sequence number... Regards Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Tue Dec 21 16:55:06 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA00281 for ; Tue, 21 Dec 2004 16:55:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Cgs7n-000341-Bq for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Dec 2004 17:05:00 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Cgrrm-0005eR-60; Tue, 21 Dec 2004 16:48:26 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CgrPG-0005ZI-5B for mip6@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Dec 2004 16:18:58 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA25320 for ; Tue, 21 Dec 2004 16:18:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from numenor.qualcomm.com ([129.46.51.58]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CgrYn-0001CM-EW for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Dec 2004 16:28:49 -0500 Received: from neophyte.qualcomm.com (neophyte.qualcomm.com [129.46.61.149]) by numenor.qualcomm.com (8.12.10/8.12.5/1.0) with ESMTP id iBLLIHhP020182 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 21 Dec 2004 13:18:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from MAHENDRA.qualcomm.com (mahendra.qualcomm.com [129.46.74.166]) by neophyte.qualcomm.com (8.12.10/8.12.5/1.0) with ESMTP id iBLLIF9A005233; Tue, 21 Dec 2004 13:18:15 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <6.1.2.0.2.20041221131255.0469feb0@qcmail1.qualcomm.com> X-Sender: mahendra@qcmail1.qualcomm.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.2.0 Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 13:18:04 -0800 To: Jari Arkko , mip6@ietf.org From: AC Mahendran Subject: Re: [Mip6] Comments on draft-ietf-mip6-auth-protocol-01.txt In-Reply-To: <41C54A5B.90000@kolumbus.fi> References: <697DAA22C5004B4596E033803A7CEF4403B1C2D5@daebe007.americas.nokia.com> <41C54A5B.90000@kolumbus.fi> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: e5ba305d0e64821bf3d8bc5d3bb07228 X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip6-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 52e1467c2184c31006318542db5614d5 At 01:31 AM 12/19/2004, Jari Arkko wrote: >(I'm hoping its still Dec 18th somewhere in the world.) > >I have reviewed this document. Like the identifier draft, >its in pretty good shape, and as I have stated before I >do believe we need to have support for AAA-based >authentication. > >But there are a few issues that need to be corrected. The most >important issue is putting back the mandatory support for RO/RR. >Also, I have identified a number places where the document could >define a simpler protocol. Hi Jari, 3GPP2 is on a very tight schedule. We need this draft published at the earliest to meet 3GPP2's deadline. The RO/RR support has been discussed a lot in the past and the authors were requested to remove it from the specification. I am not sure whether it is worthwhile to go through these discussions once more. If needed, we can always address the RR encryption in another draft. Thanks, AC _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Tue Dec 21 18:26:24 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA19071 for ; Tue, 21 Dec 2004 18:21:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CgtEl-0008D8-3j for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Dec 2004 18:16:16 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Cgswq-0006sJ-2G; Tue, 21 Dec 2004 17:57:44 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CgsfN-0001jI-Vt for mip6@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Dec 2004 17:39:42 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA08168 for ; Tue, 21 Dec 2004 17:39:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from sj-iport-3-in.cisco.com ([171.71.176.72] helo=sj-iport-3.cisco.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Cgsou-0005H5-JA for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Dec 2004 17:49:33 -0500 Received: from sj-core-5.cisco.com (171.71.177.238) by sj-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 21 Dec 2004 14:25:18 +0000 X-BrightmailFiltered: true X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Received: from mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com (IDENT:mirapoint@mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com [171.71.163.14]) by sj-core-5.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id iBLLHLHn011911; Tue, 21 Dec 2004 13:17:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from alpeshw2k03 (dhcp-171-68-147-79.cisco.com [171.68.147.79]) by mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com (MOS 3.4.5-GR) with ESMTP id BAA10329; Tue, 21 Dec 2004 13:28:06 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <200412212128.BAA10329@mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com> From: "alpesh" To: , , Subject: RE: [Mip6] Comments on draft-ietf-mip6-mn-ident-option-00.txt Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 13:17:21 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4939.300 In-Reply-To: <3CF661B1787ABF41A869BE20108F8D6D43250E@esebe056.ntc.nokia.com> Thread-Index: AcTlO0uIQKrJBixNR263UP1QVeUxnQAYXEwQAIFsk9A= X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 69a74e02bbee44ab4f8eafdbcedd94a1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip6-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9ed51c9d1356100bce94f1ae4ec616a9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Done in next rev -a > -----Original Message----- > From: mip6-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mip6-bounces@ietf.org] On > Behalf Of john.loughney@nokia.com > Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2004 11:33 PM > To: jari.arkko@kolumbus.fi; mip6@ietf.org > Subject: RE: [Mip6] Comments on draft-ietf-mip6-mn-ident-option-00.txt > > Jari, > > > Substantial: > > > > > [RFC2486] Aboba, B. and M. Beadles, "The Network Access > > Identifier", RFC 2486, January 1999. > > > > It may be appropriate to refer to > draft-ietf-radext-rfc2486bis-03.txt > > instead. This document is in IETF LC at the moment, which > means that > > its in front of the ident-option draft; reference delay > should not be > > a problem. One good reason for switching to the bis > reference is that > > the ABNF in the original RFC had a number of problems. > > I agree with this. rfc2486bis should be an RFC before long, > and it does correct a number of problems in the original RFC. > > John > > _______________________________________________ > Mip6 mailing list > Mip6@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 > _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Tue Dec 21 18:26:26 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA18891 for ; Tue, 21 Dec 2004 18:21:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CgtIR-0008St-Ga for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Dec 2004 18:20:04 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Cgswu-00070d-Tp; Tue, 21 Dec 2004 17:57:48 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Cgsg1-0001pj-6P for mip6@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Dec 2004 17:40:22 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA08379 for ; Tue, 21 Dec 2004 17:40:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from sj-iport-3-in.cisco.com ([171.71.176.72] helo=sj-iport-3.cisco.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CgspY-0005Is-7S for mip6@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Dec 2004 17:50:13 -0500 Received: from sj-core-1.cisco.com (171.71.177.237) by sj-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 21 Dec 2004 14:27:14 +0000 X-BrightmailFiltered: true X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Received: from mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com (IDENT:mirapoint@mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com [171.71.163.14]) by sj-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id iBLLJFo9003646; Tue, 21 Dec 2004 13:19:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from alpeshw2k03 (dhcp-171-68-147-79.cisco.com [171.68.147.79]) by mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com (MOS 3.4.5-GR) with ESMTP id BAA10441; Tue, 21 Dec 2004 13:30:02 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <200412212130.BAA10441@mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com> From: "alpesh" To: "'Francis Dupont'" , "'Vijay Devarapalli'" Subject: RE: [Mip6] WG LC (Deadline Dec 18th, 04) for I-Ds: draft-ietf-mip6-auth-protocol-01.txt anddraft-ietf-mip6-mn-ident-option-00.txt Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 13:19:16 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4939.300 In-Reply-To: <200412201508.iBKF88Sj081344@givry.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr> Thread-Index: AcTmqUcaL5IjQBqsRUW/3+G/vmWi8wA+VwmA X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 769a46790fb42fbb0b0cc700c82f7081 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: mip6@ietf.org, Basavaraj.Patil@nokia.com X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip6-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 538aad3a3c4f01d8b6a6477ca4248793 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Francis - The specific case is described in an appendix (B in the version you have). It is In appendix A (in version that will be submitted shortly). -a > -----Original Message----- > From: mip6-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mip6-bounces@ietf.org] On > Behalf Of Francis Dupont > Sent: Monday, December 20, 2004 7:08 AM > To: Vijay Devarapalli > Cc: mip6@ietf.org; Basavaraj.Patil@nokia.com > Subject: Re: [Mip6] WG LC (Deadline Dec 18th,04) for I-Ds: > draft-ietf-mip6-auth-protocol-01.txt > anddraft-ietf-mip6-mn-ident-option-00.txt > > In your previous mail you wrote: > > > - 6 message indent: anti-replay is important, IMHO at > least SHOULD is > > required. > > in most cases, the sequence number in the Binding Update is > enough for replay protection when the authentication option > protocol is used. if in a particular deployment, (which uses > the authentication option protocol), the sequence number is > not sufficient, the message identification option should be > used. that why it is a MAY in the document. > > => I have no concern to get the function from the "deployment > environment" but in this case the constraints for the > "deployment environment" must be explicited (currently we can > only assume that the "deployment environment" provides > authentication and authorization). Note it is possible the > "deployment environment" > needs the sequence number... > > Regards > > Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr > > _______________________________________________ > Mip6 mailing list > Mip6@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 > _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Thu Dec 23 02:18:19 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA12787 for ; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 02:18:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1ChNOh-00021V-29 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 02:28:31 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ChNC2-0000Up-HT; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 02:15:26 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ChN8E-0007YO-Uu for mip6@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 02:11:31 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA07068 for ; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 02:11:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from darkstar.iprg.nokia.com ([205.226.5.69]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1ChNI3-0001t2-1B for mip6@ietf.org; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 02:21:40 -0500 Received: (from root@localhost) by darkstar.iprg.nokia.com (8.11.0/8.11.0-DARKSTAR) id iBN7gwc30583 for ; Wed, 22 Dec 2004 23:42:58 -0800 X-mProtect: <200412230742> Nokia Silicon Valley Messaging Protection Received: from danira-pool04924.americas.nokia.com (10.241.49.24, claiming to be "iprg.nokia.com") by darkstar.iprg.nokia.com smtpdXqGtVZ; Wed, 22 Dec 2004 13:50:04 PST Message-ID: <41C9E47E.7000003@iprg.nokia.com> Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 13:17:50 -0800 From: "Charles E. Perkins" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: mip6@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Mip6] Comments on draft-ietf-mip6-auth-protocol-01.txt References: <697DAA22C5004B4596E033803A7CEF4403B1C2D5@daebe007.americas.nokia.com> <41C54A5B.90000@kolumbus.fi> In-Reply-To: <41C54A5B.90000@kolumbus.fi> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 31247fb3be228bb596db9127becad0bc Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip6-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 10d3e4e3c32e363f129e380e644649be Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello folks, ... by dialup ... I'm hoping to get my comments typed in before the telephone line crashes again... I may have missed some of the discussion since I'm not completely caught up yet. Jari Arkko wrote: > > But there are a few issues that need to be corrected. The most > important issue is putting back the mandatory support for RO/RR. > Protecting RO/RR is a good idea, and I don't think it is too hard. However, I believe it is "highly recommended" and not "mandated", and could be done later. I'd hate to see that hold up the progress of this draft. > > >> MN MAY use Message Identifier option as defined in Section 6 for >> replay protection. >> ... >> The format of the timestamp mobility option is as defined in Section >> 6. This option uses the subtype value of 1. The Identification >> field carries timestamp for replay protection. > > > I am somewhat concerned about the extensive optionality and > additional replay protection schemes, from a complexity point > of view. Do we really expect that there is going to be yet > another replay protection schemes? Is there a reason why > we don't want to use the option all the time? Ease of analysis & > implementation simplicity would be some of the benefits... I am much opposed to making the extra timestamp scheme mandatory. It isn't needed in many or perhaps even most cases, and it does impose additional implementation burden. Plus it is extra baggage. > > > > A "security association" may be too general. Its a security > association of a certain kind that you need, not others. For > instance, if the MN has only an IPsec SA or a TLS association with > the home agent, they should not attempt to use this option. > Suggestion: give a name X for your authentication method and > start referring to the "X security associations". Here X > could be, say, "Shared-Key Mobile IPv6 Authentication". I think it would be enough to say in the beginning of the draft something along the lines: In this draft, a "security association" is understood to be a "Shared-Key Mobile IPv6 Authentication" security association. > >> The value 5 is reserved for use by 3GPP2. > > > This seems strange. If 3GPP2 wants the IETF to define an > RFC for a new feature within Mobile IPv6, you would expect > the semantics of value 5 to be defined. Which algorithms > are 3GPP2 actually using? Or is the value 5 just a relic > from older systems, dealing with Mobile IPv4? In fact, I believe the SPI field should be optional at best, since almost always there is only one such security association that would be used with the option. It could be a different subtype, or it could be omitted altogether. ................ More soon, not wanting to push my luck here... Regards, Charlie P. _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Thu Dec 23 03:03:44 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA16629 for ; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 03:03:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1ChO6e-00035U-Dg for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 03:13:56 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ChNpZ-000469-3R; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 02:56:17 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ChNoY-0003Zl-IE for mip6@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 02:55:16 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA16007 for ; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 02:55:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from darkstar.iprg.nokia.com ([205.226.5.69]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1ChNyN-0002rZ-Eu for mip6@ietf.org; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 03:05:24 -0500 Received: (from root@localhost) by darkstar.iprg.nokia.com (8.11.0/8.11.0-DARKSTAR) id iBN8Qgx29218 for ; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 00:26:42 -0800 X-mProtect: <200412230826> Nokia Silicon Valley Messaging Protection Received: from danira-pool04924.americas.nokia.com (10.241.49.24, claiming to be "iprg.nokia.com") by darkstar.iprg.nokia.com smtpdt14RNf; Wed, 22 Dec 2004 20:35:30 PST Message-ID: <41CA4383.3060702@iprg.nokia.com> Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 20:03:15 -0800 From: "Charles E. Perkins" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: mip6@ietf.org Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Mip6] Comments on draft-ietf-mip6-auth-protocol-01.txt] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 386e0819b1192672467565a524848168 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip6-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8de5f93cb2b4e3bee75302e9eacc33db Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello folks, I am resending this, because the first time seems to have failed... ========================================= Hello folks, ... by dialup ... I'm hoping to get my comments typed in before the telephone line crashes again... I may have missed some of the discussion since I'm not completely caught up yet. Jari Arkko wrote: > > But there are a few issues that need to be corrected. The most > important issue is putting back the mandatory support for RO/RR. > Protecting RO/RR is a good idea, and I don't think it is too hard. However, I believe it is "highly recommended" and not "mandated", and could be done later. I'd hate to see that hold up the progress of this draft. > > >> MN MAY use Message Identifier option as defined in Section 6 for >> replay protection. >> ... >> The format of the timestamp mobility option is as defined in Section >> 6. This option uses the subtype value of 1. The Identification >> field carries timestamp for replay protection. > > > I am somewhat concerned about the extensive optionality and > additional replay protection schemes, from a complexity point > of view. Do we really expect that there is going to be yet > another replay protection schemes? Is there a reason why > we don't want to use the option all the time? Ease of analysis & > implementation simplicity would be some of the benefits... I am much opposed to making the extra timestamp scheme mandatory. It isn't needed in many or perhaps even most cases, and it does impose additional implementation burden. Plus it is extra baggage. > > > > A "security association" may be too general. Its a security > association of a certain kind that you need, not others. For > instance, if the MN has only an IPsec SA or a TLS association with > the home agent, they should not attempt to use this option. > Suggestion: give a name X for your authentication method and > start referring to the "X security associations". Here X > could be, say, "Shared-Key Mobile IPv6 Authentication". I think it would be enough to say in the beginning of the draft something along the lines: In this draft, a "security association" is understood to be a "Shared-Key Mobile IPv6 Authentication" security association. > >> The value 5 is reserved for use by 3GPP2. > > > This seems strange. If 3GPP2 wants the IETF to define an > RFC for a new feature within Mobile IPv6, you would expect > the semantics of value 5 to be defined. Which algorithms > are 3GPP2 actually using? Or is the value 5 just a relic > from older systems, dealing with Mobile IPv4? In fact, I believe the SPI field should be optional at best, since almost always there is only one such security association that would be used with the option. It could be a different subtype, or it could be omitted altogether. ................ More soon, not wanting to push my luck here... Regards, Charlie P. _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Thu Dec 23 07:13:09 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA02835 for ; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 07:13:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1ChS04-0000wx-HJ for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 07:23:25 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ChRjR-0007sw-Gg; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 07:06:13 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ChReX-000720-1E for mip6@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 07:01:09 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA02086 for ; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 07:01:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from p130.piuha.net ([193.234.218.130]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1ChRoP-0000Ze-3x for mip6@ietf.org; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 07:11:21 -0500 Received: from kolumbus.fi (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A8B1898A1; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 14:00:36 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <41CAB34C.8040708@kolumbus.fi> Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 14:00:12 +0200 From: Jari Arkko User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7b) Gecko/20040316 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Charles E. Perkins" Subject: Re: [Mip6] Comments on draft-ietf-mip6-auth-protocol-01.txt References: <697DAA22C5004B4596E033803A7CEF4403B1C2D5@daebe007.americas.nokia.com> <41C54A5B.90000@kolumbus.fi> <41C9E47E.7000003@iprg.nokia.com> In-Reply-To: <41C9E47E.7000003@iprg.nokia.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d6b246023072368de71562c0ab503126 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: mip6@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip6-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 93238566e09e6e262849b4f805833007 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Charlie, >> But there are a few issues that need to be corrected. The most >> important issue is putting back the mandatory support for RO/RR. >> > Protecting RO/RR is a good idea, and I don't think it is too > hard. However, I believe it is "highly recommended" and not Yes. I agree about the status. > "mandated", and could be done later. I'd hate to see that hold > up the progress of this draft. I agree, but all I want to do is to keep the level of support required in the base RFC. That is, mandatory to implement and optional to use. SInce text already exists, I don't think the draft will be delayed much. --Jari _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Thu Dec 23 11:00:40 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA21049 for ; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 11:00:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1ChVYG-0007lf-Ct for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 11:10:57 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ChVFR-0000dc-OY; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 10:51:29 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ChVAW-0006Wq-9p for mip6@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 10:46:24 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA19074 for ; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 10:46:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from sj-iport-3-in.cisco.com ([171.71.176.72] helo=sj-iport-3.cisco.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1ChVKP-00074g-Ig for mip6@ietf.org; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 10:56:38 -0500 Received: from sj-core-1.cisco.com (171.71.177.237) by sj-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 23 Dec 2004 08:54:09 +0000 X-BrightmailFiltered: true X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Received: from mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com (IDENT:mirapoint@mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com [171.71.163.14]) by sj-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id iBNFjlo9000086; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 07:45:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from alpeshw2k03 (sjc-vpn6-780.cisco.com [10.21.123.12]) by mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com (MOS 3.4.5-GR) with ESMTP id BAB47885; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 07:56:50 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <200412231556.BAB47885@mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com> From: "alpesh" To: "'Jari Arkko'" , "'Charles E. Perkins'" Subject: RE: [Mip6] Comments on draft-ietf-mip6-auth-protocol-01.txt Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 07:45:48 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-Reply-To: <41CAB34C.8040708@kolumbus.fi> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4939.300 Thread-Index: AcTo6mSK7s2Y1KQeR1iMqpMOBFX8mAAG93iQ X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7655788c23eb79e336f5f8ba8bce7906 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: mip6@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip6-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0bc60ec82efc80c84b8d02f4b0e4de22 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jari - > > I agree, but all I want to do is to keep the level of support > required in the base RFC. That is, mandatory to implement and > optional to use. SInce text already exists, I don't think the > draft will be delayed much. > > --Jari Confused a bit here - "text already exists" from the pre-WG item stages? If so, I agree, but then, we did not have much discussion/review on it. I am afraid that reintroducing it will cause undue delay. We are working on introducing that as a separate draft to avoid holding up this draft. -a > > _______________________________________________ > Mip6 mailing list > Mip6@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 > _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Fri Dec 24 08:22:15 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA14239 for ; Fri, 24 Dec 2004 08:22:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1ChpYh-0002ZR-DO for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 24 Dec 2004 08:32:43 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ChpJx-0002VZ-DO; Fri, 24 Dec 2004 08:17:29 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CgFak-0006TH-Sf for mip6@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 19 Dec 2004 23:56:18 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA12730 for ; Sun, 19 Dec 2004 23:56:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from wproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.184.200]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CgFjw-0005Va-B6 for mip6@ietf.org; Mon, 20 Dec 2004 00:05:48 -0500 Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 71so242916wra for ; Sun, 19 Dec 2004 20:55:47 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=D9nSXKOjMdRyBDBb+iqSo7sAxgKiPaxw2aO2dgj5bURAf6bvUEw8pTYjtKmAaJP08yXAOkl5iYTnEyvWAfyQmSTOiCL9+HycFENWUowTUA+VHmVRMzm3tfJPBdTRTRcrXw2OXlYxS++LCAoVO7kZT9+mfPkdQMAfRJM3TQjcTKI= Received: by 10.54.24.6 with SMTP id 6mr311222wrx; Sun, 19 Dec 2004 20:55:46 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.54.10.18 with HTTP; Sun, 19 Dec 2004 20:55:46 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <88b9e992041219205578883c6b@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 23:55:46 -0500 From: B Krishnamachari To: b.krishnamachari@gmail.com In-Reply-To: <88b9e992041127180016138a2e@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <88b9e992041127180016138a2e@mail.gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 36b1f8810cb91289d885dc8ab4fc8172 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 08:17:27 -0500 Subject: [Mip6] Fwd: CFP Broadnets 2005 Broadband Optical Networking Symposium X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: B Krishnamachari List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip6-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 87a3f533bb300b99e2a18357f3c1563d Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----------------------------------------------------------------------- CALL FOR PAPERS Second Annual International Conference on Broadband Networks (BROADNETS 2005) Broadband Optical Networking Symposium October 3 - 7, 2005 Boston, Massachusetts, USA http://www.broadnets.org Submission Deadline: February 1, 2005 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- SCOPE ----- BROADNETS 2005 is an international conference focusing on broadband networking and covers the entire gamut of next generation networks with high bandwidth available for both wireless and wireline networks. The conference will consist of the following three symposia: ** Broadband Optical Networking Symposium: covers WDM technologies, Ethernet and MPLS integration into the optical layer, Next-Generation SONET/SDH, as well as SAN extensions over DWDM/SONET/SDH. ** Broadband Wireless Networking Symposium: covers mobility, routing for multihop, multimedia QoS and traffic management, cross-layer optimization, MAC and emerging physical layer technologies (UWB, MIMO) for high-speed wireless networking. ** Broadband Applications/Services Symposium: covers middleware and service architectures for broadband applications, pervasive computing and ubiquitous communications, and universal broadband access for information services. BROADNETS 2005 will thus offer a unique forum for researchers from academia, government and industry to share ideas and disseminate new results in these important areas. This Call for Papers describes the details for the Broadband Optical Networking Symposium ONLY. (Refer to the www.broadnets.org/2005 website for the details of Broadband Wireless Symposium and Broadband Applications/Services Symposium.) We are soliciting full papers in all research, development, and deployment areas on broadband optical networking. Topics of interest include, but not limited to, the following: - Wavelength-routed WDM networks - Integration of Ethernet and RPR into the optical layer - IP and MPLS over DWDM: integration and interworking - Next-generation SONET/SDH and MSPP - SAN over SONET/SDH and DWDM - Network control and management, GMPLS - Survivability in the data, TDM or optical layers - Optical packet switching and burst switching - High-speed switch and router architectures - Optical multicasting - Standards for multi-service networks - Long-haul optical transport networks - Metropolitan and regional optical networks - Access optical networks, PONs - Optical networking for video-on-demand - Trial implementations and test-beds - Multi-layer network design and optimization - Grid computing over optical networks - Optical technologies: switching, transmission and multiplexing Conference proceedings will be published by IEEE Computer Society. A set of selected papers from the symposium will be published in a special issue of Elsevier Optical Switching and Networking Journal. IMPORTANT DATES --------------- Submission Deadline: February 1, 2005 Acceptance Notification: May 1, 2005 Final Manuscript Due: June 1, 2005 PAPER SUBMISSION INSTRUCTIONS ----------------------------- Authors are invited to submit full papers of up to 10 pages in IEEE conference proceedings format. Papers should be submitted in PDF format to the respective symposium through the EDAS system at http://edas.info/Conference.cgi. CONFERENCE ORGANIZING COMMITTEE ------------------------------- General Chair: Dr. Arun Somani, Iowa State University, arun@iastate.edu General Vice Chair: Dr. Thomas Hou, Virginia Tech, thou@vt.edu Technical Program Chairs - Optical Networking Symposium Dr. David Griffith, NIST, david.griffith@nist.gov Dr. Srini Ramasubramanian, University of Arizona, srini@ece.arizona.edu Technical Program Chair- Wireless Networking Symposium: Dr. Sherman Shen, Univ. of Waterloo, xshen@bbcr.uwaterloo.ca Technical Program Chairs - Services and Applications Symposium Dr. Malathi Veeraraghavan, Univ. of Virginia, mv@cs.virginia.edu Dr. Admela Jukan, NSF, ajukan@nsf.gov Workshops Chairs: Dr. Wendi Heinzelman, University of Rochester, wheinzel@ece.rochester.edu Dr. Byrav Ramamurthy, University of Nebraska-Lincoln, byrav@cse.unl.edu Dr. Behcet Sarikaya, University of Northern British Columbia, sarikaya@unbc.ca Tutorials Chair: Dr. Steven Low, CalTech., slow@caltech.edu Panels Chairs: Dr. Surendar Chandra, Univ. of Notre Dame, surendar@cse.nd.edu Dr. Rudra Dutta, NCSU, dutta@csc.ncsu.edu Publicity Chairs: Dr. Bhaskar Krishnamachari, USC, bkrishna@usc.edu Dr. Takeo Hamada, Fujitsu Labs of America, thamada@fla.fujitsu.com Website/Information Systems Chair: Dr. Shiwen Mao, Virginia Tech, smao@vt.edu Publications Chairs: Dr. Ahmed Kamal, Iowa State University, kamal@iastate.edu Dr. Hui Zang, Sprint Adv. Tech. Labs, hzang@sprintlabs.com Exhibits and Sponsorships Chair: Dr. Sai Shankar N, Philips Research USA, sai.shankar@philips.com Steering Committee Co-Chairs: Dr. Imrich Chlamtac, UT Dallas, chlamtac@utdallas.edu Dr. Krishna Sivalingam, Univ. of Maryland, Baltimore County, krishna@umbc.edu -------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Fri Dec 24 08:23:09 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA14284 for ; Fri, 24 Dec 2004 08:23:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1ChpZW-0002aR-Qk for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 24 Dec 2004 08:33:37 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ChpJx-0002Ve-PH; Fri, 24 Dec 2004 08:17:29 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ChXkK-00088D-VE for mip6@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 13:31:33 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA06120 for ; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 13:31:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from msg-mx3.usc.edu ([128.125.137.8] ident=sjes) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1ChXuG-0003NY-B8 for mip6@ietf.org; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 13:41:48 -0500 Received: from pollux.usc.edu ([128.125.7.29]) by msg-mx3.usc.edu (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.1 HotFix 0.08 (built Dec 8 2004)) with ESMTP id <0I9600BLDU4IGJ40@msg-mx3.usc.edu> for mip6@ietf.org; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 10:31:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (narayans@localhost) by pollux.usc.edu (8.10.1/8.10.1/usc) with ESMTP id iBNIVUK03230 for ; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 10:31:30 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 10:31:30 -0800 (PST) From: Narayanan Sadagopan To: mip6@ietf.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 6cca30437e2d04f45110f2ff8dc1b1d5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 08:17:27 -0500 Subject: [Mip6] Call For Papers: Symposium on Wireless Sensor Networks (IEEE WirelessCom 2005) X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip6-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 31247fb3be228bb596db9127becad0bc Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Dear Colleagues, This is the Call For Papers for the Symposium on Wireless Sensor Networks to be held at Sheraton Maui Resort, Kaanapali Beach, Maui, Hawaii, USA in conjunction with IEEE WirelessCom 2005, June 13-16, 2005. Scope Wireless Sensor Networks have received tremendous attention over past few years. These systems can potentially benefit a variety of scientific, military and commercial applications. Recent years have seen tremendous advancement to this vision and have offered the ability to deploy networks of densely deployed, inexpensive sensor nodes. The vast potential for this research area has been demonstrated by numerous scientific and commercial applications that have emerged in recent years, as well as by the number of industrial and research institutions working in this area. Sensor networks combine distributed sensing, computation, storage, and wireless multi hop communication. Many challenges need to be overcome in this research area to realize its potential. Original papers are invited on a broad range of research topics relating to wireless sensor networks. Papers must represent high-quality and previously unpublished work. Topics of interest include, but are not limited to, the following: * Communication techniques and protocols * Scalable architectures and programming models * Energy and resource management * In-network processing and data aggregation * Distributed query processing and data storage * Applications of wireless sensor networks * Localization, time-synchronization and calibration * Simulation tools, operating systems and middleware * Collaborative signal processing * Distributed control and actuation * Security * Cross-layer design and optimization Committees: * Co-Chairs Rajgopal Kannan, LSU, rkannan@bit.csc.lsu.edu Bhaskar Krishnamachari, USC, bkrishna@usc.edu Yi Pan, Georgia State University, cscyip@techie.cs.gsu.edu Pingzhi Fan, Southwest Jiaotong University, p.fan@ieee.org * Vice Chairs Deepak Ganesan, U Mass Amherst, dganesan@cs.umass.edu Chiti Francesco, Universit di Firenze, chiti@lenst.det.unifi.it Narayanan Sadagopan, USC, narayans@usc.edu * Publicity Chairs Shuangqing Wei, LSU, swei@ece.lsu.edu Marco Zuniga, USC, marcozun@usc.edu More details can be found at: http://bit.csc.lsu.edu/WirelessComm05/WSNsymposium/ Regards, Organizing Committee (Symposium on Wireless Sensor Networks) _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Fri Dec 24 13:00:18 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA02774 for ; Fri, 24 Dec 2004 13:00:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Chttq-0007eV-Ki for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 24 Dec 2004 13:10:50 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ChtiR-00006I-1c; Fri, 24 Dec 2004 12:59:03 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1ChthM-0008NN-8j for mip6@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 24 Dec 2004 12:57:56 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA02729 for ; Fri, 24 Dec 2004 12:57:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from carrierpigeon.cs.umd.edu ([128.8.129.58]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1ChtrU-0007cx-77 for mip6@ietf.org; Fri, 24 Dec 2004 13:08:24 -0500 Received: from MINDLAP2 (176-155.mam.umd.edu [129.2.176.155]) (authenticated bits=0) by carrierpigeon.cs.umd.edu (8.12.10/8.12.5) with ESMTP id iBOHvMOc025466 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 24 Dec 2004 12:57:22 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200412241757.iBOHvMOc025466@carrierpigeon.cs.umd.edu> From: "Moustafa Youssef" To: Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 12:55:11 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: <200412241713.iBOHDLM9023493@consign.cs.umd.edu> Thread-Index: AcTp299/iTddDPGvQcyu2fMIzjYGSgABbLqQ X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 10d3e4e3c32e363f129e380e644649be Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Mip6] CFP: IEEE WirelessCom Symposium on Mobile Computing, 2005 X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip6-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: b5d20af10c334b36874c0264b10f59f1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (Our apologies if you receive multiple copies of this CFP) ------------------------------------------------------------- Call for Papers Symposium on Mobile Computing http://www.csee.umbc.edu/~younis/WC_MobCom05.htm as part of IEEE WirelessCom 2005 Sheraton Maui Resort, Kaanapali Beach, Maui, Hawaii, USA http://www.ece.queensu.ca/hpages/faculty/safwat/wirelesscom/05/ June 13-16, 2005 Technical Sponsorship: IEEE TCCC, TCPC, and SSCTC Recent years have witnessed an enormous growth in the development and applications of mobile computing environments and devices. Many practitioners envision a future empowered with context and location aware computation and communication infrastructure that allow users to access data and receive service at any place and any time. Compared to conventional platforms, the mobility of computing nodes introduces many challenges to the design of almost all systems components. This symposium will foster a forum for discussing and presenting recent research results on mobile computer systems. Original papers are invited in the broader area of mobile computing. Papers must report high-quality and previously unpublished work. Topics of interest include, but are not limited to, the following: - Architecture and infrastructure support - Middleware and operating systems services - Development platforms and environments - Adaptive resource management schemes - Pervasive and Context-aware Computing - Performance metrics and studies - Power aware computation and communication - Data consistency and synchronization protocols - Fault-tolerant architectural and operation models - Wearable computing devices and systems - Time constrained mobile systems - Robust ad-hoc networking techniques - Efficient localization techniques - Wireless sensor networks - Mobile peer to peer systems - Quality of service provisioning - Context-conscious computing - Web caching and services - Emerging applications and systems - Mobile agents - Mobile commerce - Security and privacy issues Submission Guidelines --------------------- Prospective authors should submit their paper electronically to younis@csee.umbc.edu. All papers are limited to 6 pages in MS-Word, PS or PDF using standard IEEE double-column format. The first page should include title, authors' contact information, an abstract and five keywords. Authors should attach the paper abstract to their message. Important Dates --------------- Paper Submission Deadline: March 15, 2005 Notification of Acceptance: April 15, 2005 Camera-Ready Papers: May 1, 2005 Symposium Co-Chairs ------------------- Mohamed Younis Department of Computer Science and Electrical Engineering University of Maryland Baltimore County, E-mail: younis@csee.umbc.edu Hesham El-Rewini Department of Computer Science and Engineering Southern Methodist University E-mail: rewini@engr.smu.edu Publicity Chair ---------------- Moustafa Youssef Department of Computer Science University of Maryland at College Park, E-mail: moustafa@cs.umd.edu _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Sat Dec 25 11:33:48 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA01383 for ; Sat, 25 Dec 2004 11:33:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CiF1r-0005x7-9R for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 25 Dec 2004 11:44:31 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CiEme-0005FB-Ss; Sat, 25 Dec 2004 11:28:48 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CiEgm-0004nn-QN for mip6@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 25 Dec 2004 11:22:45 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA00920 for ; Sat, 25 Dec 2004 11:22:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from iramx3.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de ([141.3.10.82] ident=[U2FsdGVkX19lhVSy6fRvH9Xp/hIpSs7yCYNtHOw5S9U=]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CiEr5-0005lI-Je for mip6@ietf.org; Sat, 25 Dec 2004 11:33:24 -0500 Received: from iramx2.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de ([141.3.10.81]) by iramx3.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de with esmtps (Exim 4.43 #1) id 1CiEgU-0005mP-0Z; Sat, 25 Dec 2004 17:22:32 +0100 Received: from p50856de1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de ([80.133.109.225]) by iramx2.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de with asmtp (Exim 3.30 #10) id 1CiEgS-0004Pg-00; Sat, 25 Dec 2004 17:22:25 +0100 Message-ID: <41CD93AF.4090702@tm.uka.de> Date: Sat, 25 Dec 2004 17:22:07 +0100 From: Christian Vogt User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: de-DE, de, en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Charles Perkins Subject: Re: [Mip6] WG LC: I-D draft-ietf-mip6-precfgkbm-01.txt References: <697DAA22C5004B4596E033803A7CEF4403B1C2C4@daebe007.americas.nokia.com> In-Reply-To: <697DAA22C5004B4596E033803A7CEF4403B1C2C4@daebe007.americas.nokia.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.89.6.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-Spam-Status: No X-Spam-Score: 0.2 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 5011df3e2a27abcc044eaa15befcaa87 Cc: mip6@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0330489364==" Sender: mip6-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.2 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 1676547e4f33b5e63227e9c02bd359e3 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --===============0330489364== Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enig915D022BD31F5F6571A3FA63" This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enig915D022BD31F5F6571A3FA63 > This is a Working Group last call for the following I-D: > I-D :draft-ietf-mip6-precfgkbm-01.txt > Title: Precomputable Binding Management Key Kbm for Mobile IPv6 Hi Charlie, let me get back to the handling of sequence-number rollovers discussed in section 3 (Security Considerations) of your draft. The draft says: [...] This method of providing replay protection fails when the Binding Update sequence numbers cycle through the 16 bit counter (i.e., not more than 65,536 distinct uses of Kbm for any particular care-of address) [...] [...] If the mobile node were to send a fresh Binding Update to its correspondent node every hour, 24 hours a day, every day of the year, and utilize the same care-of address every time, this would require changing keys every 7 years. Even if the mobile node were to do so every minute, this would provide protection for over a month. [...] If I don't miss something, I think a mobile node is pretty safe with respect to replay attacks when it uses the *same* care-of address more than 65,536 times in a row. In this case, a replayed Binding Update could only re-register the care-of address that the "right" mobile node is using anyway (because the care-of address has never changed). Consequently, this replayed Binding Update would not do any harm. However, IMO, one should keep in mind that a more realistic (though possibly negligible) vulnerability to replay attacks does exist when a mobile node uses *different* care-of addresses in its Binding Updates. Given a sequence-number rollover in this case, an attacker could replay an old Binding Update with a care-of address that the mobile node has used before, but is not using any more. As a consequence, the mobile node would be unable to continue normal communcations because all its packets would be redirected to a stale care-of address. Also, I would say that this problem is more about DoS attacks against the mobile node rather than about flooding attacks against a third party, as the draft suggests further down. What could one do about sequence-number rollovers? - Here are a few suggestions (and you probably already thought about them): (1) Don't do anything about sequence-number rollovers, except what is being proposed in the draft, because rollovers are going to be a negligible problem in most realistic scenarios anyway. The draft already mentions that nodes should re-configure a new Kcn when a sequence-number rollover occurs. (2) Use timestamps instead of sequence numbers. But then you have the issue with synchronisation between the mobile node and (possibly multiple) correspondent nodes. (3) Use a longer sequence number field. For instance, one may think about an Extended Sequence Number option for Binding Updates and Binding Acknowledgements. This option could, e.g., carry a 64-bit sequence number, which is as long as the timestamps used in MIP4. Due to the extended length, such an extended sequence number would be as good as a timestamp, yet it would do without synchronization. Just as an aside: When the return-routability procedure is used, a Binding Update is valid only if fresh Home and Care-of Keygen Tokens are used for computing the authorization data. Consequently, sequence numbers have to protect only the 3.5-minute interval during which the Keygen Tokens can be reused. (See section 5.2.8 of RFC 3775.) In all practical scenarios does this solve the sequence-number rollover problem. (BTW, you get the same benefit when you combine pre-configured keys with a care-of-address test.) So far, so good. Merry Christmas! - Christian -- Christian Vogt, Institute of Telematics, University of Karlsruhe www.tm.uka.de/~chvogt/pubkey/ "Snowmen fall from Heaven unassembled." (Source unknown) --------------enig915D022BD31F5F6571A3FA63 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFBzZO9wstEk8gl2rURAup5AJ4+pbrTcSDbqcdGjDYXpCfVtgi6nQCfe9E/ hlcjaqGk+5HFgZFLtKROgvo= =qGwv -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enig915D022BD31F5F6571A3FA63-- --===============0330489364== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 --===============0330489364==-- From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Sat Dec 25 11:48:23 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA02105 for ; Sat, 25 Dec 2004 11:48:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CiFFy-0006EL-3F for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 25 Dec 2004 11:59:06 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CiF4O-0007g1-Oj; Sat, 25 Dec 2004 11:47:08 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CiF01-00079w-Hh for mip6@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 25 Dec 2004 11:42:37 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA01748 for ; Sat, 25 Dec 2004 11:42:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from darkstar.iprg.nokia.com ([205.226.5.69]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CiFAL-00068G-Rm for mip6@ietf.org; Sat, 25 Dec 2004 11:53:18 -0500 Received: (from root@localhost) by darkstar.iprg.nokia.com (8.11.0/8.11.0-DARKSTAR) id iBPHDvS04717; Sat, 25 Dec 2004 09:13:57 -0800 X-mProtect: <200412251713> Nokia Silicon Valley Messaging Protection Received: from danira-pool04924.americas.nokia.com (10.241.49.24, claiming to be "iprg.nokia.com") by darkstar.iprg.nokia.com smtpdTqA2OY; Sat, 25 Dec 2004 09:13:53 PST Message-ID: <41CD9848.3030201@iprg.nokia.com> Date: Sat, 25 Dec 2004 08:41:44 -0800 From: "Charles E. Perkins" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Christian Vogt Subject: Re: [Mip6] WG LC: I-D draft-ietf-mip6-precfgkbm-01.txt References: <697DAA22C5004B4596E033803A7CEF4403B1C2C4@daebe007.americas.nokia.com> <41CD93AF.4090702@tm.uka.de> In-Reply-To: <41CD93AF.4090702@tm.uka.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 6cca30437e2d04f45110f2ff8dc1b1d5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: mip6@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip6-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 31247fb3be228bb596db9127becad0bc Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Chrisitan, Christian Vogt wrote: >Given a sequence-number rollover in this case, an attacker could replay >an old Binding Update with a care-of address that the mobile node has >used before, but is not using any more. As a consequence, the mobile >node would be unable to continue normal communcations because all its >packets would be redirected to a stale care-of address. > > Well, in this situation, the mobile node might try to re-register its current care-of address, if it detects that something is going awry. >Also, I would say that this problem is more about DoS attacks against >the mobile node rather than about flooding attacks against a third >party, as the draft suggests further down. > > I can add that language to the draft. >What could one do about sequence-number rollovers? - Here are a few >suggestions (and you probably already thought about them): > >(1) Don't do anything about sequence-number rollovers, except what is >being proposed in the draft, because rollovers are going to be a >negligible problem in most realistic scenarios anyway. The draft already >mentions that nodes should re-configure a new Kcn when a sequence-number >rollover occurs. > > This is my preference. I do think that when the sequence number rolls over, it's time to reconfigure a new Kcn. >(2) Use timestamps instead of sequence numbers. But then you have the >issue with synchronisation between the mobile node and (possibly >multiple) correspondent nodes. > > There is a new draft with such an option specified. But I wouldn't want this draft to make normative references to the newer draft. >(3) Use a longer sequence number field. For instance, one may think >about an Extended Sequence Number option for Binding Updates and Binding >Acknowledgements. This option could, e.g., carry a 64-bit sequence >number, which is as long as the timestamps used in MIP4. Due to the >extended length, such an extended sequence number would be as good as a >timestamp, yet it would do without synchronization. > > If there's already going to be such a new timestamp field, then option (3) isn't so attractive as an additional measure for improving the robustness in case of rollovers, which I believe will be extremely rare anyway. >Just as an aside: When the return-routability procedure is used, a >Binding Update is valid only if fresh Home and Care-of Keygen Tokens >are used for computing the authorization data. Consequently, sequence >numbers have to protect only the 3.5-minute interval during which the >Keygen Tokens can be reused. (See section 5.2.8 of RFC 3775.) > > Maybe, except that I'd be a lot happier if the 3.5 minute interval were extended to, say, 3.5 hour intervals. I am pretty sure we are jousting at windmills here -- even, perhaps, at windmills that no one has ever seen. But, that's politics, and we must check millions of shoes every day. Happy holidays! Regards, Charlie P. _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Sat Dec 25 16:45:17 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA17499 for ; Sat, 25 Dec 2004 16:45:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CiJtJ-0003gg-89 for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 25 Dec 2004 16:56:02 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CiJgw-00029N-2S; Sat, 25 Dec 2004 16:43:14 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CiJfg-0001ry-16 for mip6@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 25 Dec 2004 16:41:56 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA17376 for ; Sat, 25 Dec 2004 16:41:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from relay1.mail.vrmd.de ([81.28.232.18]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CiJq2-0003cO-B5 for mip6@ietf.org; Sat, 25 Dec 2004 16:52:38 -0500 Received: from [213.168.106.243] (helo=[213.168.106.243]) by vm8.bln2.vrmd.de with asmtp (Exim 4.41) id 1CiJf1-0005R1-0j for mip6@ietf.org; Sat, 25 Dec 2004 22:41:15 +0100 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) In-Reply-To: <41CD9848.3030201@iprg.nokia.com> References: <697DAA22C5004B4596E033803A7CEF4403B1C2C4@daebe007.americas.nokia.com> <41CD93AF.4090702@tm.uka.de> <41CD9848.3030201@iprg.nokia.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Marc Manthey Subject: Re: [Mip6] WG LC: I-D draft-ietf-mip6-precfgkbm-01.txt Date: Sat, 25 Dec 2004 22:41:15 +0100 To: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Relay-User: marc@let.de X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7d33c50f3756db14428398e2bdedd581 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip6-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ffa9dfbbe7cc58b3fa6b8ae3e57b0aa3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 25. Dec 2004, at 17:41 Uhr, Charles E. Perkins wrote: > I am pretty sure we are jousting at windmills here even, perhaps, at > windmills that no one has ever seen. But, that's politics, and we > must check millions of shoes every day. god evening all , charles what about a "3,5 hour foundation "? *scnr* cheers and happy holidays marc from battle overseas:) "If the doors of perception were cleansed, everything would appear to man as it is, infinite." William Blake, The Marriage of Heaven and Hell http://www.nosoftwarepatents.com/ _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Mon Dec 27 16:32:40 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA01781 for ; Mon, 27 Dec 2004 16:32:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Cj2ec-0001fX-JM for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 27 Dec 2004 16:43:50 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Cj1hm-0004Iw-NN; Mon, 27 Dec 2004 15:43:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Cj1dI-00025W-G1; Mon, 27 Dec 2004 15:38:24 -0500 Received: from CNRI.Reston.VA.US (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA19955; Mon, 27 Dec 2004 15:38:23 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200412272038.PAA19955@ietf.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" To: i-d-announce@ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 15:38:22 -0500 Cc: mip6@ietf.org Subject: [Mip6] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-mip6-mn-ident-option-01.txt X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip6-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.4 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 14582b0692e7f70ce7111d04db3781c8 --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Mobility for IPv6 Working Group of the IETF. Title : MN Identifier Option for Mobile IPv6 Author(s) : K. Leung, et al. Filename : draft-ietf-mip6-mn-ident-option-01.txt Pages : 11 Date : 2004-12-27 This document defines new mobility option to identify mobility entities using identifiers other than the home IP address. This option can be used in messages containing a mobility header. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-mip6-mn-ident-option-01.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-mip6-mn-ident-option-01.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-mip6-mn-ident-option-01.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2004-12-27154900.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-mip6-mn-ident-option-01.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-mip6-mn-ident-option-01.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2004-12-27154900.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 --NextPart-- From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Tue Dec 28 16:27:40 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA01783 for ; Tue, 28 Dec 2004 16:27:40 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CjP3Y-0007BH-6o for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 28 Dec 2004 16:39:04 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CjOMi-00046s-TO; Tue, 28 Dec 2004 15:54:48 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CjOJO-00025t-S2; Tue, 28 Dec 2004 15:51:22 -0500 Received: from CNRI.Reston.VA.US (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA25474; Tue, 28 Dec 2004 15:51:20 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200412282051.PAA25474@ietf.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" To: i-d-announce@ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 15:51:20 -0500 Cc: mip6@ietf.org Subject: [Mip6] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-mip6-auth-protocol-02.txt X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip6-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.4 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 6e922792024732fb1bb6f346e63517e4 --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Mobility for IPv6 Working Group of the IETF. Title : Authentication Protocol for Mobile IPv6 Author(s) : K. Leung, et al. Filename : draft-ietf-mip6-auth-protocol-02.txt Pages : 19 Date : 2004-12-28 IPsec is specified as the sole means of securing all signaling messages between the Mobile Node and Home agent for Mobile IPv6. A flexible model for security between the mobile node and home agent is required from the perspective of deployment of the Mobile IPv6 protocol. One instance of such deployment need comes from networks that are built on 3GPP2 standards. This document proposes an alternate method for securing the signaling messages that are responsible for performing Registration of a mobile node at a home agent. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-mip6-auth-protocol-02.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-mip6-auth-protocol-02.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-mip6-auth-protocol-02.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2004-12-28152719.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-mip6-auth-protocol-02.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-mip6-auth-protocol-02.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2004-12-28152719.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 --NextPart-- From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Wed Dec 29 10:23:53 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA16802 for ; Wed, 29 Dec 2004 10:23:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CjfrC-0001L7-9S for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 29 Dec 2004 10:35:26 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Cjfek-0004at-Tv; Wed, 29 Dec 2004 10:22:34 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CjfXg-0001WS-Vn for mip6@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 29 Dec 2004 10:15:17 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA15815 for ; Wed, 29 Dec 2004 10:15:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from iramx2.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de ([141.3.10.81]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Cjfip-00019k-By for mip6@ietf.org; Wed, 29 Dec 2004 10:26:48 -0500 Received: from iraspam.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de ([141.3.10.6] helo=spamhost.ira.uka.de) by iramx2.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de with esmtp (Exim 3.30 #10) id 1CjfXa-0007dB-00; Wed, 29 Dec 2004 16:15:10 +0100 Received: from amavis by spamhost.ira.uka.de with scanned-ok (Exim 3.30 #3) id 1CjfXZ-0005MS-00; Wed, 29 Dec 2004 16:15:09 +0100 Received: from iramx2.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de ([141.3.10.81]) by spamhost.ira.uka.de with esmtp (Exim 3.30 #3) id 1CjfXB-0005KQ-00; Wed, 29 Dec 2004 16:14:45 +0100 Received: from p508567f1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de ([80.133.103.241]) by iramx2.ira.uni-karlsruhe.de with asmtp (Exim 3.30 #10) id 1CjfXA-0007bq-00; Wed, 29 Dec 2004 16:14:44 +0100 Message-ID: <41D2C9DF.1070601@tm.uka.de> Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 16:14:39 +0100 From: Christian Vogt User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: de-DE, de, en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Charles E. Perkins" Subject: Re: [Mip6] WG LC: I-D draft-ietf-mip6-precfgkbm-01.txt References: <697DAA22C5004B4596E033803A7CEF4403B1C2C4@daebe007.americas.nokia.com> <41CD93AF.4090702@tm.uka.de> <41CD9848.3030201@iprg.nokia.com> In-Reply-To: <41CD9848.3030201@iprg.nokia.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.89.6.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.2 (/) X-Scan-Signature: b7b9551d71acde901886cc48bfc088a6 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: mip6@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip6-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.2 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 10ba05e7e8a9aa6adb025f426bef3a30 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Charlie. >> What could one do about sequence-number rollovers? - Here are a few >> suggestions (and you probably already thought about them): >> >> (1) Don't do anything about sequence-number rollovers, except what >> is being proposed in the draft, because rollovers are going to be a >> negligible problem in most realistic scenarios anyway. The draft >> already mentions that nodes should re-configure a new Kcn when a >> sequence-number rollover occurs. > This is my preference. I do think that when the sequence number > rolls over, it's time to reconfigure a new Kcn. This makes perfect sense to me. >> (2) Use timestamps instead of sequence numbers. But then you have >> the issue with synchronisation between the mobile node and >> (possibly multiple) correspondent nodes. >> > There is a new draft with such an option specified. But I wouldn't > want this draft to make normative references to the newer draft. Ok. A couple of MIP6 extensions are already using timestamps, e.g., the Authentication Protocol, Certificate-based Binding Updates, and CGA-OMIP6. What these protocols usually do not specify is how clock synchronization is handled in the route-optimization case. Does a CN maintain a clock skew for each Binding Cache entry, or does a MN maintain one for each BUL entry? Anyway, this is a minor issue. >> (3) Use a longer sequence number field. For instance, one may think >> about an Extended Sequence Number option for Binding Updates and >> Binding Acknowledgements. This option could, e.g., carry a 64-bit >> sequence number, which is as long as the timestamps used in MIP4. >> Due to the extended length, such an extended sequence number would >> be as good as a timestamp, yet it would do without synchronization. >> > If there's already going to be such a new timestamp field, then > option (3) isn't so attractive as an additional measure for improving > the robustness in case of rollovers, which I believe will be > extremely rare anyway. Alright. >> Just as an aside: When the return-routability procedure is used, a >> Binding Update is valid only if fresh Home and Care-of Keygen >> Tokens are used for computing the authorization data. Consequently, >> sequence numbers have to protect only the 3.5-minute interval >> during which the Keygen Tokens can be reused. (See section 5.2.8 of >> RFC 3775.) > Maybe, except that I'd be a lot happier if the 3.5 minute interval > were extended to, say, 3.5 hour intervals. I am pretty sure we are > jousting at windmills here -- even, perhaps, at windmills that no one > has ever seen. But, that's politics, and we must check millions of > shoes every day. Anyway. But FWIW, I found that care-of-address test cannot even always be used to protect against replay attacks. Namely, if one ever wanted to combine pre-configured keys with care-of-address tests, then one would most probably test a new care-of address *concurrently* with using it. The reason is that standard, RFC-3775-compliant care-of-address test would damage the whole efficiency benefit that you get through pre-configuration. Yet, once you do care-of-address tests concurrently, and you replace the home-address test by pre-configured keys, you no longer have the additional protection against replay attacks which was mentioned above. However, this does not affect draft-ietf-mip6-precfgkbm-01.txt. Happy holidays. - Christian -- Christian Vogt, Institute of Telematics, University of Karlsruhe www.tm.uka.de/~chvogt/pubkey/ _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Thu Dec 30 09:20:09 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA15005 for ; Thu, 30 Dec 2004 09:20:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Ck1LF-000165-6F for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 30 Dec 2004 09:31:54 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Ck16M-0004Rd-Ny; Thu, 30 Dec 2004 09:16:30 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Ck0uu-0002Eg-4C for mip6@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 30 Dec 2004 09:04:40 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA13777 for ; Thu, 30 Dec 2004 09:04:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from laposte.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr ([192.44.77.17]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Ck16E-0000ix-Pc for mip6@ietf.org; Thu, 30 Dec 2004 09:16:23 -0500 Received: from givry.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr (givry.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr [193.52.74.194]) by laposte.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr (8.11.6p2/8.11.6/2003.04.01) with ESMTP id iBUE3wr18506; Thu, 30 Dec 2004 15:03:58 +0100 Received: from givry.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr (localhost.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr [127.0.0.1]) by givry.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id iBUE3wSj021046; Thu, 30 Dec 2004 15:03:58 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from dupont@givry.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr) Message-Id: <200412301403.iBUE3wSj021046@givry.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr> From: Francis Dupont To: Rajeev Koodli Subject: Re: [Mip6] WG LC (Deadline Dec 18th, 04) for I-Ds: draft-ietf-mip6-auth-protocol-01.txt and draft-ietf-mip6-mn-ident-option-00.txt In-reply-to: Your message of Wed, 15 Dec 2004 14:51:25 PST. <41C0BFED.8010608@iprg.nokia.com> Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 15:03:58 +0100 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-milter (http://amavis.org/) at enst-bretagne.fr X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 68c8cc8a64a9d0402e43b8eee9fc4199 Cc: mip6@ietf.org, Basavaraj.Patil@nokia.com X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip6-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: de4f315c9369b71d7dd5909b42224370 In your previous mail you wrote: > - 5.2 MN-AAA auth mob option: the BA is not protected. This is a > major security issue. HA _could_ include MN-HA auth option in the BA. => I did not understand your answer the first time but now with the 02 version of the draft it is clear. Thanks Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6 From mip6-bounces@ietf.org Thu Dec 30 09:43:47 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA16372 for ; Thu, 30 Dec 2004 09:43:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Ck1i7-0001e6-6F for mip6-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 30 Dec 2004 09:55:32 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Ck1Q4-00085G-Sy; Thu, 30 Dec 2004 09:36:52 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Ck1GS-0006IM-UT for mip6@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 30 Dec 2004 09:26:57 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA15307 for ; Thu, 30 Dec 2004 09:26:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from laposte.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr ([192.44.77.17]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Ck1Ro-0001E3-58 for mip6@ietf.org; Thu, 30 Dec 2004 09:38:40 -0500 Received: from givry.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr (givry.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr [193.52.74.194]) by laposte.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr (8.11.6p2/8.11.6/2003.04.01) with ESMTP id iBUEQIr19559; Thu, 30 Dec 2004 15:26:18 +0100 Received: from givry.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr (localhost.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr [127.0.0.1]) by givry.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id iBUEQISj021173; Thu, 30 Dec 2004 15:26:18 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from dupont@givry.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr) Message-Id: <200412301426.iBUEQISj021173@givry.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr> From: Francis Dupont To: "alpesh" Subject: Re: [Mip6] WG LC (Deadline Dec 18th, 04) for I-Ds: draft-ietf-mip6-auth-protocol-01.txt anddraft-ietf-mip6-mn-ident-option-00.txt In-reply-to: Your message of Tue, 21 Dec 2004 13:19:16 PST. <200412212130.BAA10441@mira-sjc5-b.cisco.com> Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 15:26:18 +0100 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-milter (http://amavis.org/) at enst-bretagne.fr X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d6b246023072368de71562c0ab503126 Cc: mip6@ietf.org, "'Vijay Devarapalli'" , Basavaraj.Patil@nokia.com X-BeenThere: mip6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: mip6.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mip6-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: mip6-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 93238566e09e6e262849b4f805833007 In your previous mail you wrote: The specific case is described in an appendix (B in the version you have). It is In appendix A (in version that will be submitted shortly). => appendixes are not "normative" so there is still a formal issue. I am reading the new (02) version: - MN-HA has the anti-replay in its SA, even there is no detail I believe there will no problem with not totally stupid implementations. - MN-AAA has still the problem and in 5.2.1.1 no anti-replay stuff is sent to the AAA server. BTW there is no reference to the AAA application used in 5.2.1.1 so one can infer from the whole draft that the message identification option is highly recommended with MN-AAA. As it is not the case the text should be improved... Regards Francis.Dupont@enst-bretagne.fr _______________________________________________ Mip6 mailing list Mip6@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6