From nobody Thu May 2 01:03:06 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0CF1120145 for ; Thu, 2 May 2019 01:03:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id x3dXcMdpDnjk for ; Thu, 2 May 2019 01:03:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm1-x32e.google.com (mail-wm1-x32e.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::32e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8C4F61202FD for ; Thu, 2 May 2019 01:03:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm1-x32e.google.com with SMTP id h11so1328241wmb.5 for ; Thu, 02 May 2019 01:03:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=ZKubZfCvc0zgOU4HwOZTTVx2+h2yJn9oRWUUgfLVwyk=; b=vM5dkU0vTqkBazCY6z6m3y93Kytma/O1E2YcXtIp/n0O/VIG3GpddwR4yiKGtqm+6T 07cuzTC87n+SdMAdr718ZGyhAVglSmHmfl5XKiKsv5PtvGG9OTFpYikI57yCh+AwsMvM KKEY3cUhhdBpOpxeolCwpqTbGJ3JXllV6M2HKPRmAnSQqbom0MZUDGCP2P1Ze4UJuNvy MLvpGJTJrEBH7XpSq53lDMloJFufITYzmlcRxnjJVARoIAWulsJPdj4WZw2qz1qjEd9E myqUfs2J/PftD0AOxNkV/dULVeiLf3xkudLEUAODQo9EKg6FKe7psviaTT9wOjcB75K/ uTxQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=ZKubZfCvc0zgOU4HwOZTTVx2+h2yJn9oRWUUgfLVwyk=; b=ISdLalBRcpis39pfqY3NAC/kTwAsRQnPl0hCfc5hb2yuC6ftb7yGFG3iUnIEFg4xcf tz/Z1I++eyCkcPpyOq+pHKqACNIQagwRq6Uy2+ekNGdkDZpJVoe8AXEVxwl6reMFBihu WcKGBpAs3afUl56JfYTWqnac0cusenmmo8VAxlH53rF90KytVdSrWFfa4urTWrz9bmd4 bJgbUrWlWsCvXEq3rzDBP96lX/dAZPeepBkQr9UqdC5om6xUUjofMFhPqB+FUj8gAWS5 Aage8+4sOkJ97uXvgkTkI2B+/96zclXYEuSE0b21YleGGtGEeNI//DVJwSczeiqxkDu1 +USw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUn9oa5xC9B6J7J24KunqlnvsimOOlk80sHzkj5p/bOIdB3NwtC Xa4skjQcmcw7ZM2SfL0dLKEa1QJv3IE= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzUxexN2uZ/AJ5uYDDXL1C0IFq617QpeCTklrdbBvIxyzKu/ZhGl+G2cD09VcTPlwr4/Uyphw== X-Received: by 2002:a1c:1903:: with SMTP id 3mr1277425wmz.103.1556784179723; Thu, 02 May 2019 01:02:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wifi-pro-82-058.paris.inria.fr (wifi-pro-82-058.paris.inria.fr. [128.93.82.58]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id n63sm6749443wmn.38.2019.05.02.01.02.58 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 02 May 2019 01:02:59 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.8\)) From: Karthikeyan Bhargavan In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 2 May 2019 10:02:58 +0200 Cc: Nick Sullivan , Messaging Layer Security WG Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <0DB5B36D-5A31-461A-83DF-94693284B071@gmail.com> References: To: Richard Barnes X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.8) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [MLS] May 2019 Interim Registration and Issue discussion X-BeenThere: mls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Messaging Layer Security List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 May 2019 08:03:05 -0000 Looking at: https://github.com/mlswg/mls-protocol/pull/155 I see that there is a change in metadata encryption: > "sample =3D ciphertext[:Hash.length] > mask =3D HMAC(sender_data_secret, sample)[:8] > encrypted_sender_data =3D sender_data ^ mask > ~~~~~ > =09 > This approach is similar to the one used for protection of = header > information in QUIC (see Section 5.4 of {{?I-D.ietf-quic-tls}}). > Note that the sender data values are authenticated by the AEAD > and the signature, while the masked_sender_data is not and only > benefit from passive security because it depends on the = ciphertext I disagree with this change, because it is too early to put in = optimizations, especially those that rely on non-standard cryptographic constructions. I would prefer that we go back to using plain AEAD for the sender_data, and that we add this kind of optimization once we have a proof that it = is secure. Best, Karthik > On 25 Apr 2019, at 19:50, Richard Barnes wrote: >=20 > Couple of notes on plans for the protocol document: >=20 > As Nick notes, we are hoping to publish draft-05 of the protocol = document before the interim. I have marked a handful of PRs for = inclusion in that release: >=20 > https://github.com/mlswg/mls-protocol/milestone/2 >=20 > If folks could review those PRs ASAP, that would be helpful, as we = will be working to get a few major things merged next week. Thanks to = Jo=C3=ABl Alwen and Michael Rosenberg for reviews so far. >=20 > In general, my thinking is that draft-05 will be a "feature release" = and draft-06 will be a "performance relase", in the following sense: In = draft-05, we're getting in a lot of the big changes to the security = model (tree hashing, common signing/encryption). We'll try to keep = these things stable for a bit, to let some analysis get done. While = that's going on, we can focus on issues that relate more to performance = / scalability / maintainability, such as server assist, server-initiated = add/remove, or KDF trees for application secrets. I've already put a = few issues / PRs into the draft-06 milestone: >=20 > https://github.com/mlswg/mls-protocol/milestone/3 >=20 > --Richard >=20 > On Thu, Apr 25, 2019 at 1:38 PM Nick Sullivan = wrote: > The date and location are set for the May 2019 Interim meeting. It = will be on May 16 at the Wire headquarters in Berlin. More details can = be found on Github: = https://github.com/mlswg/wg-materials/tree/master/interim-2019-05. >=20 > Please register with the following form if you intend on attending = either remotely or in person. > Registration Link (https://forms.gle/8vK6ZKSrFzgX6KTr8) >=20 > Registration deadline closes on May 2nd. >=20 > We are soliciting proposals for presentations to add to the agenda for = the meeting. Please send proposals to mls-chairs@ietf.org. Due to time = limitations, these should be restricted to discussions about current = active drafts. >=20 > Here are the active documents: > Protocol (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mls-protocol-04) > Issues: https://github.com/mlswg/mls-protocol/issues > Milestones: https://github..com/mlswg/mls-protocol/milestones >=20 > Architecture = (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mls-architecture-02) > Issues: https://github.com/mlswg/mls-architecture >=20 > Federation (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-omara-mls-federation-00) > Issues: https://github.com/mlswg/mls-federation/issues >=20 >=20 > As a reminder for the working group, the target milestone for the -05 = draft of the protocol document is May 1st, 2019. There are still a = number of open issues that should be discussed here: = https://github.com/mlswg/mls-protocol/milestone/2. We encourage the = authors and other participants to read these issues, distill the main = questions raised by them and propose answers for discussion on the list = in the coming week. >=20 >=20 > Nick and Sean >=20 > _______________________________________________ > MLS mailing list > MLS@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mls > _______________________________________________ > MLS mailing list > MLS@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mls From nobody Thu May 2 02:05:31 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF441120026 for ; Thu, 2 May 2019 02:05:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xvJ2K95sCi6p for ; Thu, 2 May 2019 02:05:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail3-relais-sop.national.inria.fr (mail3-relais-sop.national.inria.fr [192.134.164.104]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B344D12001E for ; Thu, 2 May 2019 02:05:25 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.60,421,1549926000"; d="scan'208";a="304622039" Received: from wifi-pro-82-017.paris.inria.fr ([128.93.82.17]) by mail3-relais-sop.national.inria.fr with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 02 May 2019 11:05:23 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.8\)) From: Benjamin Beurdouche In-Reply-To: <0DB5B36D-5A31-461A-83DF-94693284B071@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 2 May 2019 11:05:23 +0200 Cc: Richard Barnes , ML Messaging Layer Security Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <0DB5B36D-5A31-461A-83DF-94693284B071@gmail.com> To: Karthikeyan Bhargavan X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.8) Archived-At: Subject: [MLS] Encryption vs Masking for the sender information X-BeenThere: mls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Messaging Layer Security List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 May 2019 09:05:30 -0000 > On May 2, 2019, at 10:02 AM, Karthikeyan Bhargavan = wrote: >=20 > Looking at: https://github.com/mlswg/mls-protocol/pull/155 >=20 > I see that there is a change in metadata encryption: >=20 >> "sample =3D ciphertext[:Hash.length] >> mask =3D HMAC(sender_data_secret, sample)[:8] >> encrypted_sender_data =3D sender_data ^ mask >> ~~~~~ >> =09 >> This approach is similar to the one used for protection of = header >> information in QUIC (see Section 5.4 of {{?I-D.ietf-quic-tls}}). >> Note that the sender data values are authenticated by the AEAD >> and the signature, while the masked_sender_data is not and only >> benefit from passive security because it depends on the = ciphertext >=20 > I disagree with this change, because it is too early to put in = optimizations, > especially those that rely on non-standard cryptographic = constructions. > I would prefer that we go back to using plain AEAD for the = sender_data, > and that we add this kind of optimization once we have a proof that it = is secure. Using AEAD was in my original PR (#131), but multiple PRs have been opened and merged together over the last few weeks leading to this = state. I have operationnal control over #155 right now and it is not merged, so I would be completely fine with going back to use AEAD for now as it provides better protection against active adversaries anyway... B.= From nobody Thu May 2 10:52:43 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mls@ietf.org Delivered-To: mls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 657901205DF; Thu, 2 May 2019 10:52:40 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: mls@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.95.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: mls@ietf.org Message-ID: <155681956034.24898.9747632719437911984@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 02 May 2019 10:52:40 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [MLS] I-D Action: draft-ietf-mls-protocol-05.txt X-BeenThere: mls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Messaging Layer Security List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 May 2019 17:52:40 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Messaging Layer Security WG of the IETF. Title : The Messaging Layer Security (MLS) Protocol Authors : Richard Barnes Jon Millican Emad Omara Katriel Cohn-Gordon Raphael Robert Filename : draft-ietf-mls-protocol-05.txt Pages : 51 Date : 2019-05-02 Abstract: Messaging applications are increasingly making use of end-to-end security mechanisms to ensure that messages are only accessible to the communicating endpoints, and not to any servers involved in delivering messages. Establishing keys to provide such protections is challenging for group chat settings, in which more than two clients need to agree on a key but may not be online at the same time. In this document, we specify a key establishment protocol that provides efficient asynchronous group key establishment with forward secrecy and post-compromise security for groups in size ranging from two to thousands. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mls-protocol/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mls-protocol-05 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-mls-protocol-05 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-mls-protocol-05 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Thu May 2 14:45:59 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D02F61205F3 for ; Thu, 2 May 2019 14:45:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=ipv-sx.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bMgjN8cxoyvP for ; Thu, 2 May 2019 14:45:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ot1-x332.google.com (mail-ot1-x332.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::332]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7A67312008C for ; 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Thu, 02 May 2019 14:45:53 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <0DB5B36D-5A31-461A-83DF-94693284B071@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: From: Richard Barnes Date: Thu, 2 May 2019 17:45:25 -0400 Message-ID: To: Benjamin Beurdouche Cc: Karthikeyan Bhargavan , ML Messaging Layer Security Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000f2cc020587ee8e0a" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [MLS] Encryption vs Masking for the sender information X-BeenThere: mls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Messaging Layer Security List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 May 2019 21:45:57 -0000 --000000000000f2cc020587ee8e0a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Thu, May 2, 2019 at 5:05 AM Benjamin Beurdouche < benjamin.beurdouche@inria.fr> wrote: > > > On May 2, 2019, at 10:02 AM, Karthikeyan Bhargavan < > karthik.bhargavan@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > Looking at: https://github.com/mlswg/mls-protocol/pull/155 > > > > I see that there is a change in metadata encryption: > > > >> "sample = ciphertext[:Hash.length] > >> mask = HMAC(sender_data_secret, sample)[:8] > >> encrypted_sender_data = sender_data ^ mask > >> ~~~~~ > >> > >> This approach is similar to the one used for protection of header > >> information in QUIC (see Section 5.4 of {{?I-D.ietf-quic-tls}}). > >> Note that the sender data values are authenticated by the AEAD > >> and the signature, while the masked_sender_data is not and only > >> benefit from passive security because it depends on the ciphertext > > > > I disagree with this change, because it is too early to put in > optimizations, > > especially those that rely on non-standard cryptographic constructions. > > I would prefer that we go back to using plain AEAD for the sender_data, > > and that we add this kind of optimization once we have a proof that it > is secure. > > Using AEAD was in my original PR (#131), but multiple PRs have been > opened and merged together over the last few weeks leading to this state. > I have operationnal control over #155 right now and it is not merged, so > I would be completely fine with going back to use AEAD for now as it > provides better protection against active adversaries anyway... > We published draft-05 today with AEAD instead of masking. I have a pretty strong preference for masking, though, because AEAD imposes a lot of overhead. Maybe we could discuss this at the interim? --Richard --000000000000f2cc020587ee8e0a Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Thu, May 2, 2019 at 5:05 AM Benjam= in Beurdouche <benjamin.= beurdouche@inria.fr> wrote:

> On May 2, 2019, at 10:02 AM, Karthikeyan Bhargavan <karthik.bhargavan@gmail.c= om> wrote:
>
> Looking at: https://github.com/mlswg/mls-protocol= /pull/155
>
> I see that there is a change in metadata encryption:
>
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 "sample =3D ciphertext[:Hash.length]
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 mask =3D HMAC(sender_data_secret, sample)[:8]<= br> >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 encrypted_sender_data =3D sender_data ^ mask >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 ~~~~~
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 This approach is similar to the one used for p= rotection of header
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 information in QUIC (see Section 5.4 of {{?I-D= .ietf-quic-tls}}).
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Note that the sender data values are authentic= ated by the AEAD
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 and the signature, while the masked_sender_dat= a is not and only
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 benefit from passive security because it depen= ds on the ciphertext
>
> I disagree with this change, because it is too early to put in optimiz= ations,
> especially those that rely on non-standard cryptographic constructions= .
> I would prefer that we go back to using plain AEAD for the sender_data= ,
> and that we add this kind of optimization once we have a proof that it= is secure.

Using AEAD was in my original PR (#131), but multiple PRs have been
opened and merged together over the last few weeks leading to this state. I have operationnal control over #155 right now and it is not merged, so I would be completely fine with going back to use AEAD for now as it
provides better protection against active adversaries anyway...

We published draft-05 today with AEAD instead of m= asking.=C2=A0 I have a pretty strong preference for masking, though, becaus= e AEAD imposes a lot of overhead.=C2=A0 Maybe we could discuss this at the = interim?

--Richard

--000000000000f2cc020587ee8e0a-- From nobody Thu May 9 10:41:54 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A1F512003E for ; Thu, 9 May 2019 10:41:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01, T_KAM_HTML_FONT_INVALID=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cloudflare.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oA947hQAKuIl for ; Thu, 9 May 2019 10:41:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr1-x434.google.com (mail-wr1-x434.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::434]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 40A411200B8 for ; Thu, 9 May 2019 10:41:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wr1-x434.google.com with SMTP id f7so4238137wrq.1 for ; Thu, 09 May 2019 10:41:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cloudflare.com; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=2Ojl7yiOT1ArbemROGH+I0NoWG2MwucJtAU9I43Jovk=; b=qNr6uu8ZeN6pGCtseVsPh8adocB5WV2ohmteRdTgAlmZHoKyM9XoSZfY6dXhAVd9D4 sB27qiWrV6Gn1K7xTfcvMM0N5LacZ1a+VWTISKtQsSPyL7l/pUc5ESMOi9+fuNmYN0T5 cYCKvvaiIXfLifJiCgmfIuf6nOEqY/qfkAeQU= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=2Ojl7yiOT1ArbemROGH+I0NoWG2MwucJtAU9I43Jovk=; b=b9ECgyry8VuAJNl7qPmzclnxWDesvWFGshCGb0LycNx0YsX3T3vyqDV9bCqfZW9x9W qM/ZImrwbAQkgaCelhxdDOtr9M3aL+s6B7FC4tMaBpdfpF4sTCiLcjjjE/MxUGw/mpYQ NQXdZooVzwTuevF2YZswEyWNi3YCW94ckrgLOQDpO5Z4WoEItah4Tradkm53Si5UD28Y 8aCgamph/wN/Ht44Gsm3xdFLZV5dDrzLrvf/B2fmmtk/kylnIX3l53bjDPkBpzcfwMts P0A81q9bEvwmqwRRHpLUW0E08apB1kztEQetkk+GPFThD1dOe6upVQCX3IXNoxQy7cXA izVw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUNJzhB+sgBWDfgemFwtapYLf5WgmECWYNyDRIxD7TLhtVwbv1c lIgrLUDsXJTYTr0BD3Thtt3jiKLQVu2+MezecrVZKZOnKME= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzcoOSOqTp8dvJ2ZWClUG4MJeAQqmUNIS0a+peBmihFubUuDj4SmsAyDqGuO2PplEmKsvljWVeiHOjT9GexfTM= X-Received: by 2002:adf:fcc8:: with SMTP id f8mr4097218wrs.250.1557423707515; Thu, 09 May 2019 10:41:47 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Nick Sullivan Date: Thu, 9 May 2019 10:41:36 -0700 Message-ID: To: Richard Barnes Cc: Messaging Layer Security WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000da1c4b058877f694" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [MLS] May 2019 Interim Registration and Issue discussion X-BeenThere: mls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Messaging Layer Security List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 May 2019 17:41:52 -0000 --000000000000da1c4b058877f694 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello All, Registration for the interim is closed, but not everyone who expressed an interest has registered. If you previously expressed interest in attending either in person or remotely, please register by tomorrow (May 10th). The preliminary agenda will be published by the end of the week. Nick & Sean On Thu, Apr 25, 2019 at 10:50 AM Richard Barnes wrote: > Couple of notes on plans for the protocol document: > > As Nick notes, we are hoping to publish draft-05 of the protocol document > before the interim. I have marked a handful of PRs for inclusion in that > release: > > https://github.com/mlswg/mls-protocol/milestone/2 > > If folks could review those PRs ASAP, that would be helpful, as we will b= e > working to get a few major things merged next week. Thanks to Jo=C3=ABl = Alwen > and Michael Rosenberg for reviews so far. > > In general, my thinking is that draft-05 will be a "feature release" and > draft-06 will be a "performance relase", in the following sense: In > draft-05, we're getting in a lot of the big changes to the security model > (tree hashing, common signing/encryption). We'll try to keep these thing= s > stable for a bit, to let some analysis get done. While that's going on, = we > can focus on issues that relate more to performance / scalability / > maintainability, such as server assist, server-initiated add/remove, or K= DF > trees for application secrets. I've already put a few issues / PRs into > the draft-06 milestone: > > https://github.com/mlswg/mls-protocol/milestone/3 > > --Richard > > On Thu, Apr 25, 2019 at 1:38 PM Nick Sullivan 40cloudflare.com@dmarc.ietf.org <40cloudflare.com@dmarc.ietf..org>> wrote= : > >> The date and location are set for the May 2019 Interim meeting. It will >> be on May 16 at the Wire headquarters in Berlin. More details can be fou= nd >> on Github: >> https://github.com/mlswg/wg-materials/tree/master/interim-2019-05. >> >> Please register with the following form if you intend on attending eithe= r >> remotely or in person. >> >> Registration Link ( >> https://forms.gle/8vK6ZKSrFzgX6KTr8) >> >> Registration deadline closes on May 2nd. >> >> We are soliciting proposals for presentations to add to the agenda for >> the meeting. Please send proposals to mls-chairs@ietf.org. Due to time >> limitations, these should be restricted to discussions about current act= ive >> drafts. >> >> Here are the active documents: >> >> *Protocol* (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mls-protocol-04) >> >> Issues: https://github.com/mlswg/mls-protocol/issues >> >> Milestones: https://github..com/mlswg/mls-protocol/milestones >> >> >> *Architecture* ( >> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mls-architecture-02) >> >> Issues: https://github.com/mlswg/mls-architecture >> >> *Federation* (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-omara-mls-federation-00) >> >> Issues: https://github.com/mlswg/mls-federation/issues >> >> >> As a reminder for the working group, the target milestone for the -05 >> draft of the protocol document is May 1st, 2019. There are still a numbe= r >> of open issues that should be discussed here: >> https://github.com/mlswg/mls-protocol/milestone/2. We encourage the >> authors and other participants to read these issues, distill the main >> questions raised by them and propose answers for discussion on the list = in >> the coming week. >> >> >> Nick and Sean >> >> _______________________________________________ >> MLS mailing list >> MLS@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mls >> > --000000000000da1c4b058877f694 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello All,

Registration for the interim= is closed, but not everyone who expressed an interest has registered. If y= ou previously expressed interest in attending either in person or remotely,= please register by tomorrow (May 10th). The preliminary agenda will be pub= lished by the end of the week.

Nick & Sean

On Thu, Apr 25, 2019 at 10:50 AM Richard Barnes <rlb@ipv.sx> wrote:=
Couple of notes on plans for the p= rotocol document:

As Nick notes, we are hoping= to publish draft-05 of the protocol document before the interim.=C2=A0 I h= ave marked a handful of PRs for inclusion in that release:
If folks could review those PRs ASAP, that would be helpf= ul, as we will be working to get a few major things merged next week.=C2=A0= Thanks to Jo=C3=ABl Alwen and Michael Rosenberg for reviews so far.
<= div>
In general, my thinking is that draft-05 will be a "= ;feature release" and draft-06 will be a "performance relase"= ;, in the following sense: In draft-05, we're getting in a lot of the b= ig changes to the security model (tree hashing, common signing/encryption).= =C2=A0 We'll try to keep these things stable for a bit, to let some ana= lysis get done.=C2=A0 While that's going on, we can focus on issues tha= t relate more to performance / scalability / maintainability, such as serve= r assist, server-initiated add/remove, or KDF trees for application secrets= .=C2=A0 I've already put a few issues / PRs into the draft-06 milestone= :


--Richard
On Thu, = Apr 25, 2019 at 1:38 PM Nick Sullivan <nick=3D40cloudflare.com@dmarc.ietf.org= > wrote:
=

The date and = location are set for the May 2019 Interim meeting. It will be on May 16 at = the Wire headquarters in Berlin. More details can be found on Github: https://github.com/mlswg/wg-m= aterials/tree/master/interim-2019-05.


Please register with the following form if yo= u intend on attending either remotely or in person.

Registration Link (https://forms.gle/8vK6ZKSrFzgX6KT= r8)

<= br>

Registration deadline c= loses on May 2nd.


We are soliciting proposals for presentations to add to the agenda fo= r the meeting. Please send proposals to mls-chairs@ietf.org. Due to time limitations, the= se should be restricted to discussions about current active drafts.<= /p>

Here are the active= documents:

P= rotocol (https://tools.ietf.or= g/html/draft-ietf-mls-protocol-04)

Issues: https://github.com/mlswg/mls-pro= tocol/issues

Milestones: https://github..com/mlswg/m= ls-protocol/milestones


Architecture (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mls-architecture-02= )

Issues: https://github.com/ml= swg/mls-architecture


Federation (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-omara-mls-federation-00)

Issues: https= ://github.com/mlswg/mls-federation/issues



As a reminder for the working group, = the target milestone for the -05 draft of the protocol document is May 1st,= 2019. There are still a number of open issues that should be discussed her= e: https://github.com/mlswg/mls-protoco= l/milestone/2. = We encourage the authors and other participants to read these issues, disti= ll the main questions raised by them and propose answers for discussion on = the list in the coming week.



Nick and Sean


MLS@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mls
--000000000000da1c4b058877f694-- From nobody Fri May 10 11:47:25 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDAB4120077 for ; Fri, 10 May 2019 11:47:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hOnlxCY0O5_p for ; Fri, 10 May 2019 11:47:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr1-x434.google.com (mail-wr1-x434.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::434]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C1F4512000E for ; Fri, 10 May 2019 11:47:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wr1-x434.google.com with SMTP id d12so8947526wrm.8 for ; Fri, 10 May 2019 11:47:20 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=dqZiZNZH7xvW2fqpctrVXz8arUOVNbHO4Rc/0rXUgHQ=; b=MbbcNB2gi6a2rpuq3zvAsJ/pFmpSG/4wzEFUOWd+Cvkluv+a+0F7WgJZBtmwh5VxV7 HooewMfaK6YU2qDkw7Ste81kDN4uLCffiiziWdkNnqzxF+lUHF0bQXqjYEymV8kquZgT rO1okq2RPpN3+p4hKnK+cE5LNh9Ht4pbQdihm+7rXz6qX5ssjzzP1J8Si1ZwZZmvXSJO gRIispnji570zt40EzlZYBfxGJMUimIc/MaMlD17BU08DkvKIxkjDZiG02MQlxmHYr5b vmW2iYNnoys8f6Eu6xVG2yHmwea/90OAylGrZC0/6vz3xppevByn+cBrkAF/5jAvwxMP Udug== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=dqZiZNZH7xvW2fqpctrVXz8arUOVNbHO4Rc/0rXUgHQ=; b=CCeLLukYiGQEkmLqo20oco6hY3Uc2TssauJOB5oIIqT3kX5zJEPRzbyJTuvvs3cwfO bXcFy8kU9K2I5NQU9aiJpeQSZF2wlWMsB3KV0M6We++bB9HwKqnqTyPvPr5b8EsBxetZ XmZib5RWRluk5hQAi+3SzbKzAxQx+wfPioSm3dmyxUBCDH5wd41JQbkYDZaAv+IjFNXz B6CQmarkTVTeYm+6RG7Nlu3R83bpLwtNvM7ayklCOrb7+JrTDxTQUXnoidp0SR5aXsgt FiSoqKa8wog8XQkQs6PmSR5UeP2FOCJh6YffJWqIV1KEvcobKe7mSIxzFqgL+mX0YBTK VPtQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXCammFvS40OwCrvw7ItkKucxkCQmcpk2iJ/59tABYz4fCmVH33 9uY8nbHoMgRu2AcJxBW4YxSE+TwckPi0aCL2zX3pLiJw X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwns8fQEJWFnhwgQj8a53oErspH3Pjfj2mDHuP72Ub18tbJzoK4VOqoW0v7JttEVvjmqu/Vb1BVkAu6csBrd98= X-Received: by 2002:adf:ebd0:: with SMTP id v16mr9357872wrn.175.1557514038996; Fri, 10 May 2019 11:47:18 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Cas Cremers Date: Fri, 10 May 2019 20:47:03 +0200 Message-ID: To: ML Messaging Layer Security Cc: "Hale, Britta (CIV)" , Konrad Kohbrok Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Archived-At: Subject: [MLS] PCS guarantees of ART/MLS versus groups based on pairwise Signal X-BeenThere: mls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Messaging Layer Security List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 May 2019 18:47:23 -0000 Dear all, We (Britta+Konrad+myself) have been exploring the subtleties of PCS guarantees across groups (so not just within a single group). This has brought up some stark differences between "groups using only pairwise channels" and the ART/MLS approach. We wrote up an extended abstract, which is available here: https://ia.cr/2019/477 We can perhaps discuss this at the interim in Berlin. (We have more substantial text drafted that we left out for now and are working towards a full paper.) Best wishes, Cas Cremers & Britta Hale & Konrad Kohbrok From nobody Tue May 14 04:36:32 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9B4712006B for ; Tue, 14 May 2019 04:36:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.889 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.889 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_KAM_HTML_FONT_INVALID=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=wire-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id E9EAbLVBHOki for ; Tue, 14 May 2019 04:36:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ed1-x535.google.com (mail-ed1-x535.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::535]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8CC97120152 for ; Tue, 14 May 2019 04:36:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ed1-x535.google.com with SMTP id n17so22420945edb.0 for ; Tue, 14 May 2019 04:36:26 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=wire-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=JFnK+uE7GFWdJumc9DCCrMJwSF0KHXdqjO3V9hsJRYw=; b=OMhB25koTlPNFtD+37vzOfNo2gIGQfhA46FXmuUu4Rq7Zo2D6v0pbaFuifD3CR/CDI Y4hRUQa8hcRwuBXNnqHPYB4+iUCaRQz89QmnSjyycemJpCzZovCPhS/UaxmSkx4KgVZ2 4CBImBHCHKVPZa2fV99S5qKFkLSE4A7HwHgSK/w+lK7a4CqyTzUSv5/nqBCPOjWCEjcX pm0s5d4ojp8RkyhOeb9LsaIuLo2763x1N0HYIby3AxpeKgfs8357Zo6AKuePsUMe4lo9 vODa5g01fn+QppW4lpKKxP1/j+eYqYu1yc2QGSGpFXN5d0HJps5gXmSPcvvAjUYJqYEr U/xQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=JFnK+uE7GFWdJumc9DCCrMJwSF0KHXdqjO3V9hsJRYw=; b=pEQ3ru2K7G/yOLRDoSSNdGHbKqfE8qa+Q58vDlBtFlUp15jDW80Dyclex/Hrh8LCnM QWYmo/FxulVp3edtC/ooMh6X//emcP0ST2niA6+c50FkhDRVdhC9V9hat7NitdYjw7br 6PidDj8pEIqv7yraGK78ehK7MzDGmrRruV5GczKdvhfPS/LQfWZZ6xdpCr0C15S6xS0k 7FRgMeRDIrMi7QD+FH/DpgHlTP9fd82+kIA2nwBzPAt8NsioEVlFsQDFwOCN+NauaDQV rw0cf4P17KtvJ2zmQo7bQyVYgj57tT0V+H7Sfi2rEjT73k/BkDrvYAaBg/7RMEolyRn+ G2Rg== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVJ5smr0rFcNawvTwEUTz3jCU0def+0DufYiBSt+ifzBiQW+Z2Q xxNGoZOa+Ug2E2YlpZKQOlSmDsLv0wc= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyZcgf2gnZ6//3mgdO9vZ3C86Ah5D/0KW26U18W22LFHa8xCZoKu2LcXU/onsWCGe6gAFxolQ== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6402:16d2:: with SMTP id r18mr35393871edx.261.1557833784587; Tue, 14 May 2019 04:36:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rmbp.wire.local (h-62.96.148.44.host.de.colt.net. [62.96.148.44]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id p37sm4559264edc.14.2019.05.14.04.36.23 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 14 May 2019 04:36:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Raphael Robert Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_8BAF264E-B84C-4C93-92D9-B6BD4854BE59" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.8\)) Date: Tue, 14 May 2019 13:36:22 +0200 In-Reply-To: Cc: Richard Barnes , Nick Sullivan To: Messaging Layer Security WG References: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.8) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [MLS] May 2019 Interim Registration and Issue discussion X-BeenThere: mls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Messaging Layer Security List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 May 2019 11:36:30 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_8BAF264E-B84C-4C93-92D9-B6BD4854BE59 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hello all, The address of the venue where the interim will be held is the = following: Happy Pigeons GmbH Erich-Weinert-Stra=C3=9Fe 78 10439 Berlin Doors will be open at 9am. Thanks Raphael > On 9 May 2019, at 19:41, Nick Sullivan = wrote: >=20 > Hello All, >=20 > Registration for the interim is closed, but not everyone who expressed = an interest has registered. If you previously expressed interest in = attending either in person or remotely, please register by tomorrow (May = 10th). The preliminary agenda will be published by the end of the week. >=20 > Nick & Sean >=20 > On Thu, Apr 25, 2019 at 10:50 AM Richard Barnes wrote: > Couple of notes on plans for the protocol document: >=20 > As Nick notes, we are hoping to publish draft-05 of the protocol = document before the interim. I have marked a handful of PRs for = inclusion in that release: >=20 > https://github.com/mlswg/mls-protocol/milestone/2 = >=20 > If folks could review those PRs ASAP, that would be helpful, as we = will be working to get a few major things merged next week. Thanks to = Jo=C3=ABl Alwen and Michael Rosenberg for reviews so far. >=20 > In general, my thinking is that draft-05 will be a "feature release" = and draft-06 will be a "performance relase", in the following sense: In = draft-05, we're getting in a lot of the big changes to the security = model (tree hashing, common signing/encryption). We'll try to keep = these things stable for a bit, to let some analysis get done. While = that's going on, we can focus on issues that relate more to performance = / scalability / maintainability, such as server assist, server-initiated = add/remove, or KDF trees for application secrets.. I've already put a = few issues / PRs into the draft-06 milestone: >=20 > https://github.com/mlswg/mls-protocol/milestone/3 = >=20 > --Richard >=20 > On Thu, Apr 25, 2019 at 1:38 PM Nick Sullivan = > wrote: > The date and location are set for the May 2019 Interim meeting. It = will be on May 16 at the Wire headquarters in Berlin. More details can = be found on Github: = https://github.com/mlswg/wg-materials/tree/master/interim-2019-05 = . >=20 > Please register with the following form if you intend on attending = either remotely or in person. > Registration Link = (https://forms.gle/8vK6ZKSrFzgX6KTr8 = ) >=20 > Registration deadline closes on May 2nd. >=20 > We are soliciting proposals for presentations to add to the agenda for = the meeting. Please send proposals to mls-chairs@ietf.org = . Due to time limitations, these should be = restricted to discussions about current active drafts. >=20 > Here are the active documents: > Protocol (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mls-protocol-04 = ) > Issues: https://github.com/mlswg/mls-protocol/issues = > Milestones: https://github..com/mlswg/mls-protocol/milestones = > Architecture = (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mls-architecture-02 = ) > Issues: https://github.com/mlswg/mls-architecture = > Federation (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-omara-mls-federation-00 = ) > Issues: https://github.com/mlswg/mls-federation/issues = >=20 > As a reminder for the working group, the target milestone for the -05 = draft of the protocol document is May 1st, 2019. There are still a = number of open issues that should be discussed here: = https://github.com/mlswg/mls-protocol/milestone/2 = . We encourage the = authors and other participants to read these issues, distill the main = questions raised by them and propose answers for discussion on the list = in the coming week. >=20 >=20 > Nick and Sean >=20 > _______________________________________________ > MLS mailing list > MLS@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mls = > _______________________________________________ > MLS mailing list > MLS@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mls --Apple-Mail=_8BAF264E-B84C-4C93-92D9-B6BD4854BE59 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hello= all,

The address of = the venue where the interim will be held is the following:

Happy Pigeons GmbH
Erich-Weinert-Stra=C3=9Fe 78
10439 = Berlin

Doors = will be open at 9am.

Thanks

Raphael

On 9 May 2019, at 19:41, Nick = Sullivan <nick=3D40cloudflare.com@dmarc.ietf.org> = wrote:

Hello All,

Registration for the interim is closed, but not everyone who = expressed an interest has registered. If you previously expressed = interest in attending either in person or remotely, please register by = tomorrow (May 10th). The preliminary agenda will be published by the end = of the week.

Nick & Sean

On Thu, Apr = 25, 2019 at 10:50 AM Richard Barnes <rlb@ipv.sx> wrote:
Couple = of notes on plans for the protocol document:

As Nick notes, we are = hoping to publish draft-05 of the protocol document before the = interim.  I have marked a handful of PRs for inclusion in that = release:

https://github.com/mlswg/mls-protocol/milestone/2

If folks could review = those PRs ASAP, that would be helpful, as we will be working to get a = few major things merged next week.  Thanks to Jo=C3=ABl Alwen and = Michael Rosenberg for reviews so far.

In general, my thinking is that = draft-05 will be a "feature release" and draft-06 will be a "performance = relase", in the following sense: In draft-05, we're getting in a lot of = the big changes to the security model (tree hashing, common = signing/encryption).  We'll try to keep these things stable for a = bit, to let some analysis get done.  While that's going on, we can = focus on issues that relate more to performance / scalability / = maintainability, such as server assist, server-initiated add/remove, or = KDF trees for application secrets..  I've already put a few issues = / PRs into the draft-06 milestone:

https://github.com/mlswg/mls-protocol/milestone/3

--Richard

On Thu, Apr = 25, 2019 at 1:38 PM Nick Sullivan <nick=3D40cloudflare.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
The date and location are set for the May 2019 = Interim meeting. It will be on May 16 at the Wire headquarters in = Berlin. More details can be found on Github: https://github.com/mlswg/wg-materials/tree/master/interim-2019-= 05.

Please = register with the following form if you intend on attending either = remotely or in person.
Registration Link (https://forms.gle/8vK6ZKSrFzgX6KTr8)

Registration = deadline closes on May 2nd.

We are soliciting proposals for presentations to = add to the agenda for the meeting. Please send proposals to mls-chairs@ietf.org. Due to time limitations, these = should be restricted to discussions about current active = drafts.

Here are = the active documents:
Protocol (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mls-protocol-04)
Issues: https://github.com/mlswg/mls-protocol/issues
Milestones: https://github..com/mlswg/mls-protocol/milestones
Architecture = (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mls-architecture-02)
Issues: = https://github.com/mlswg/mls-architecture

Federation = (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-omara-mls-federation-00)
Issues: = https://github.com/mlswg/mls-federation/issues
=

As a = reminder for the working group, the target milestone for the -05 draft = of the protocol document is May 1st, 2019. There are still a number of = open issues that should be discussed here: https://github.com/mlswg/mls-protocol/milestone/2. = We encourage the authors and other participants to read these issues, = distill the main questions raised by them and propose answers for = discussion on the list in the coming week.


Nick and Sean

_______________________________________________
MLS mailing list
MLS@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mls
_______________________________________________
MLS = mailing list
MLS@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mls

= --Apple-Mail=_8BAF264E-B84C-4C93-92D9-B6BD4854BE59-- From nobody Wed May 15 22:35:55 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC2701200A2 for ; Wed, 15 May 2019 22:35:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01, T_KAM_HTML_FONT_INVALID=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cloudflare.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6j6k2mDCL-aY for ; Wed, 15 May 2019 22:35:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vk1-xa34.google.com (mail-vk1-xa34.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::a34]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 43DC412006D for ; Wed, 15 May 2019 22:35:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-vk1-xa34.google.com with SMTP id v140so684157vkd.7 for ; Wed, 15 May 2019 22:35:50 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cloudflare.com; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=xqSX7vYvFUmZR1sgwQEaQ4qoeiuZWUUGF3jf44YfHTQ=; b=MUJd3ntvxk5e2aTzzSrBqRtbPRBC7aSeJtWkPc3rQhX0Y45y7XOsTV8KUI3Ixahal/ HhVyN/mQjFqh4Qu/fLxZEswLFneGoxPgwpfGhp3G01RNbNbD+B9fkPqNAnPdbNQCq/dg RQE99HRUG+k0ZPHPQw5C0zQp2SZLWUqsSNnZA= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=xqSX7vYvFUmZR1sgwQEaQ4qoeiuZWUUGF3jf44YfHTQ=; b=Lbr7aQAPAdjsBHIwvY8asWKENNsKOsI6jKVt37w767IdU/KszKsRr5kOJD/ib5U28+ D2SqzLfsAH6q/53XoL6hIpK+VMLaul7jrAaM37Ty35MSZMtgWjlz05pGdOYEFfIwkPPe SsG3kxxK2OW6v0/oh8gkWHOdrl7XhW3wM99CtiNWfW5r14s3mYllo50y68XGKhZcQe9v /dvQulX2++G4u/f4+sp4O3LQYqsuAn7P2b6YsEZBKl5EiA1yjimeTYVCPadWhdm2kkqp X/E3nIgzh9YMmEaO2s55pdP8fHjpPKI40zCjLB10BgVFI4dsFA78dCB/PuVEXi7ZxRDt Ilcw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAV2k1iGLQYLh8YEpB1zAZNyHu9xqPocuuWOvqotcRKodPTZoMxC 20/rJh24A7qrK1AhdgQG1xZnMP7TbxiNVszJ2i7L3Q== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyc9YbwGenKuHTGthvj0Bz/TrX9+YRSgxhDsr//uQGBbpjDvf44BDLVxjtsVbVfaZURmDaELrmUxOhxTsyk8gk= X-Received: by 2002:a1f:9bd0:: with SMTP id d199mr21357357vke.25.1557984949022; Wed, 15 May 2019 22:35:49 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Nick Sullivan Date: Thu, 16 May 2019 07:35:38 +0200 Message-ID: To: Raphael Robert Cc: Messaging Layer Security WG , Richard Barnes Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000073f0830588faa320" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [MLS] May 2019 Interim Registration and Issue discussion X-BeenThere: mls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Messaging Layer Security List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 May 2019 05:35:53 -0000 --00000000000073f0830588faa320 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable As a reminder, here are the meeting details: https://github.com/mlswg/wg-materials/blob/master/interim-2019-05/README.md For remote attendance, we=E2=80=99ll be setting up WebEx: Topic: MLS Interim: 16 May 2019 Date: Monday, January 16, 2019 Time: 9:00 am | Central Europead Summer Time (Berlin, GMT+02:00) | 8 hrs Meeting link: https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dmd546be15e628910271eed585d1ad8567 Meeting number (access code): 648 186 985 Meeting password: ftw! On Tue, May 14, 2019 at 1:36 PM Raphael Robert wrote: > Hello all, > > The address of the venue where the interim will be held is the following: > > Happy Pigeons GmbH > Erich-Weinert-Stra=C3=9Fe 78 > > 10439 Berlin > > > Doors will be open at 9am. > > Thanks > > Raphael > > On 9 May 2019, at 19:41, Nick Sullivan < > nick=3D40cloudflare.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote: > > Hello All, > > Registration for the interim is closed, but not everyone who expressed an > interest has registered. If you previously expressed interest in attendin= g > either in person or remotely, please register by tomorrow (May 10th). The > preliminary agenda will be published by the end of the week. > > Nick & Sean > > On Thu, Apr 25, 2019 at 10:50 AM Richard Barnes wrote: > >> Couple of notes on plans for the protocol document: >> >> As Nick notes, we are hoping to publish draft-05 of the protocol documen= t >> before the interim. I have marked a handful of PRs for inclusion in tha= t >> release: >> >> https://github.com/mlswg/mls-protocol/milestone/2 >> >> If folks could review those PRs ASAP, that would be helpful, as we will >> be working to get a few major things merged next week. Thanks to Jo=C3= =ABl >> Alwen and Michael Rosenberg for reviews so far. >> >> In general, my thinking is that draft-05 will be a "feature release" and >> draft-06 will be a "performance relase", in the following sense: In >> draft-05, we're getting in a lot of the big changes to the security mode= l >> (tree hashing, common signing/encryption). We'll try to keep these thin= gs >> stable for a bit, to let some analysis get done. While that's going on,= we >> can focus on issues that relate more to performance / scalability / >> maintainability, such as server assist, server-initiated add/remove, or = KDF >> trees for application secrets.. I've already put a few issues / PRs int= o >> the draft-06 milestone: >> >> https://github.com/mlswg/mls-protocol/milestone/3 >> >> --Richard >> > >> On Thu, Apr 25, 2019 at 1:38 PM Nick Sullivan > 40cloudflare.com@dmarc.ietf.org <40cloudflare.com@dmarc.ietf..org>> >> wrote: >> >>> The date and location are set for the May 2019 Interim meeting. It will >>> be on May 16 at the Wire headquarters in Berlin. More details can be fo= und >>> on Github: >>> https://github.com/mlswg/wg-materials/tree/master/interim-2019-05. >>> >>> Please register with the following form if you intend on attending >>> either remotely or in person. >>> Registration Link ( >>> https://forms.gle/8vK6ZKSrFzgX6KTr8) >>> >>> Registration deadline closes on May 2nd. >>> >>> We are soliciting proposals for presentations to add to the agenda for >>> the meeting. Please send proposals to mls-chairs@ietf.org. Due to time >>> limitations, these should be restricted to discussions about current ac= tive >>> drafts. >>> >>> Here are the active documents: >>> *Protocol* (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mls-protocol-04) >>> Issues: https://github.com/mlswg/mls-protocol/issues >>> Milestones: https://github..com/mlswg/mls-protocol/milestones >>> >>> >>> *Architecture* ( >>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mls-architecture-02) >>> Issues: https://github.com/mlswg/mls-architecture >>> >>> *Federation* (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-omara-mls-federation-00= ) >>> Issues: https://github.com/mlswg/mls-federation/issues >>> >>> >>> As a reminder for the working group, the target milestone for the -05 >>> draft of the protocol document is May 1st, 2019. There are still a numb= er >>> of open issues that should be discussed here: >>> https://github.com/mlswg/mls-protocol/milestone/2. We encourage the >>> authors and other participants to read these issues, distill the main >>> questions raised by them and propose answers for discussion on the list= in >>> the coming week. >>> >>> >>> Nick and Sean >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> MLS mailing list >>> MLS@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mls >>> >> _______________________________________________ > MLS mailing list > MLS@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mls > > > --00000000000073f0830588faa320 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
As a reminder, here are the meeting details:
<= br>
For remote attendance, we=E2=80=99ll be setting = up WebEx:

Topic: MLS= Interim: 16 May 2019=C2=A0
Date: Monday,= January 16, 2019=C2=A0
Time: 9:00 am | C= entral Europead Summer Time (Berlin, GMT+02:00) | 8 hrs=C2=A0
Meeting link:=C2=A0htt= ps://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dmd546be15e628910271eed585d1ad8567= =C2=A0
Meeting number (access code):= =C2=A0648 186 985=C2=A0
Meeting password: ftw!

On Tue, May 14,= 2019 at 1:36 PM Raphael Robert <raphael=3D40wire.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
Hello all,

The address of the venue where th= e interim will be held is the following:

Happy Pig= eons GmbH
Erich-Weinert-Stra=C3= =9Fe 78
10439 Berlin

Doors will be open at 9am.

= Thanks

Raphael

On 9 May 2019, at 19:41, Nick Sullivan <nick=3D40cloudflare.c= om@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:

Hello All,

Registration for the interim is closed, but not everyone who expressed an= interest has registered. If you previously expressed interest in attending= either in person or remotely, please register by tomorrow (May 10th). The = preliminary agenda will be published by the end of the week.

=
Nick & Sean

On Thu, Apr 25, 2019 at 10:50 AM Richard Ba= rnes <rlb@ipv.sx>= wrote:
Couple of notes on plans fo= r the protocol document:

As Nick notes, we are= hoping to publish draft-05 of the protocol document before the interim.=C2= =A0 I have marked a handful of PRs for inclusion in that release:

https://github.com/mlswg/mls-protocol/milestone/2<= /div>

If folks could review those PRs ASAP, that would b= e helpful, as we will be working to get a few major things merged next week= .=C2=A0 Thanks to Jo=C3=ABl Alwen and Michael Rosenberg for reviews so far.=

In general, my thinking is that draft-05 will be = a "feature release" and draft-06 will be a "performance rela= se", in the following sense: In draft-05, we're getting in a lot o= f the big changes to the security model (tree hashing, common signing/encry= ption).=C2=A0 We'll try to keep these things stable for a bit, to let s= ome analysis get done.=C2=A0 While that's going on, we can focus on iss= ues that relate more to performance / scalability / maintainability, such a= s server assist, server-initiated add/remove, or KDF trees for application = secrets..=C2=A0 I've already put a few issues / PRs into the draft-06 m= ilestone:


--Richard
=

On Thu, Apr 25, 2019 at 1:38 PM Nick Sullivan <nick=3D40cloud= flare.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
The date and location are set for the May 2019 Interim meeting. It wi= ll be on May 16 at the Wire headquarters in Berlin. More details can be fou= nd on Github: https://gi= thub.com/mlswg/wg-materials/tree/master/interim-2019-05.
Please register with the following form if you inte= nd on attending either remotely or in person.

Registration deadline= closes on May 2nd.

We are soliciting= proposals for presentations to add to the agenda for the meeting. Please s= end proposals to m= ls-chairs@ietf.org. Due to time limitations, these should be restricted= to discussions about current active drafts.

Here are the active documents:



As a reminder for = the working group, the target milestone for the -05 draft of the protocol d= ocument is May 1st, 2019. There are still a number of open issues that shou= ld be discussed here: https://github.co= m/mlswg/mls-protocol/milestone/2= . We encourage the authors and other participants to read these issues, dis= till the main questions raised by them and propose answers for discussion o= n the list in the coming week.


Ni= ck and Sean

_______________________________________________
MLS mailing list
MLS@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mls
_______________________________________________
MLS mailing list
MLS@ietf.org
https://ww= w.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mls

<= /div>
--00000000000073f0830588faa320-- From nobody Thu May 23 10:04:52 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mls@ietf.org Delivered-To: mls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B0EF120043; Thu, 23 May 2019 10:04:50 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: IETF Meeting Session Request Tool To: Cc: mls-chairs@ietf.org, mls@ietf.org, kaduk@mit.edu, sean@sn3rd.com X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.96.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <155863109023.17165.2431240685513029562.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 23 May 2019 10:04:50 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [MLS] mls - New Meeting Session Request for IETF 105 X-BeenThere: mls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Messaging Layer Security List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 May 2019 17:04:51 -0000 A new meeting session request has just been submitted by Sean Turner, a Chair of the mls working group. --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: Messaging Layer Security Area Name: Security Area Session Requester: Sean Turner Number of Sessions: 2 Length of Session(s): 2 Hours, 1 Hour Number of Attendees: 125 Conflicts to Avoid: First Priority: acme artarea cfrg dispatch iasa2 httpbis perc quic rtcweb saag secdispatch tls Second Priority: curdle dprive lamps sidrops stir suit teep People who must be present: Eric Rescorla Sean Turner Richard Barnes Benjamin Kaduk Nick Sullivan Resources Requested: Special Requests: --------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Thu May 30 08:44:23 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mls@ietf.org Delivered-To: mls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6FA112013B; Thu, 30 May 2019 08:44:13 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: mls@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.97.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: mls@ietf.org Message-ID: <155923105380.22167.3295367450049593642@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 30 May 2019 08:44:13 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [MLS] I-D Action: draft-ietf-mls-protocol-06.txt X-BeenThere: mls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Messaging Layer Security List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 May 2019 15:44:14 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Messaging Layer Security WG of the IETF. Title : The Messaging Layer Security (MLS) Protocol Authors : Richard Barnes Jon Millican Emad Omara Katriel Cohn-Gordon Raphael Robert Filename : draft-ietf-mls-protocol-06.txt Pages : 52 Date : 2019-05-30 Abstract: Messaging applications are increasingly making use of end-to-end security mechanisms to ensure that messages are only accessible to the communicating endpoints, and not to any servers involved in delivering messages. Establishing keys to provide such protections is challenging for group chat settings, in which more than two clients need to agree on a key but may not be online at the same time. In this document, we specify a key establishment protocol that provides efficient asynchronous group key establishment with forward secrecy and post-compromise security for groups in size ranging from two to thousands. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mls-protocol/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mls-protocol-06 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-mls-protocol-06 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-mls-protocol-06 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Thu May 30 08:49:02 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D348E12026E for ; Thu, 30 May 2019 08:48:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.896 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=ipv-sx.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ge0meiJK1kpp for ; Thu, 30 May 2019 08:48:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ot1-x343.google.com (mail-ot1-x343.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::343]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0D1D1120277 for ; Thu, 30 May 2019 08:48:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ot1-x343.google.com with SMTP id n14so6090920otk.2 for ; Thu, 30 May 2019 08:48:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ipv-sx.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=jfPpdYAnwMBtrlA8SFe7UffY7o6c3YY2xwBtGMdJpZw=; b=R1QjgApzBKbdyFr3RIhAJBlxKRrU47Fcs3iA+v3a315DKqdN8IQGHdRvLjn2nL8TFQ KO3pdNiFxM6o1GvBDi/q2TPbSYOJ+9fLid7VtWWYD5yfg75H2tZ3HJmPHRaKkJNYNVEr Fu3JPIepSGKDmBHvYiC4jyuyouROq9x2qZCCrwqRpipvePQxbaZU9tZjnBy6XIBwoeHa 2fFHbsPNUgiK6Rm/GV9IkQgOGNOsfhdrWEOmAjijkR9obs8CnJzfGVcGsHyAUdXERBHC BFy912rleMIgxHSs20pkeoilD+qn+mWWSrZ96CdMKLbpnqGHJ+6+Pl/r8klN6hSEM1tx kD1w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=jfPpdYAnwMBtrlA8SFe7UffY7o6c3YY2xwBtGMdJpZw=; b=XYQHgFEaQ6Hv449+HB3M/gn0fZQ4DEOSIEJllKczO8rsxskx0Iwnh/JhsT16txlwZj ApAyu3AbipUjGkB1305v0GKyYDD9rIFPya/RupK673BaVp8H6HynFcXAkSyPqDtK+lFY k/cgYF+BOg4UuC8fnO3sdTc0uWbIr1m0/H7pT5evr+g8e0b8cmWYcaDb/Yt+FaTDDM9r d/EjU2khiZ7Q5bvJYDcweFl+O5KdnP1IGXnQQ9LiPju/a3EfDNbYp9lz++FTAFRMGWNI MxI36JudBTCbvJ9DbDFexYL4zx8qxnVwhRd68wLdARDr7yNgp3Q5X5hKMM0DR25u9tj1 A1GA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVzyEgPeTCRZKJ1PkDuxSO1akJi9yUnrnEg/Bz6jFsUFMVFW6yT VE5H3Z+r69ph3yqPbSigxBs3AtKy1N6Dzs+UBArywyWj0LU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwYO0acA6IFp5VXZ353r9hGlx+a0jX95z8RMzcdD5Xs9PWKZHjUh4JhP/VYk3bsMz9dnUBl5iZ7vHEB9ap4KE0= X-Received: by 2002:a9d:6189:: with SMTP id g9mr3167389otk.241.1559231330029; Thu, 30 May 2019 08:48:50 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <155923105380.22167.3295367450049593642@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <155923105380.22167.3295367450049593642@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Richard Barnes Date: Thu, 30 May 2019 11:48:35 -0400 Message-ID: To: Messaging Layer Security WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000008ca395058a1cd5c2" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [MLS] I-D Action: draft-ietf-mls-protocol-06.txt X-BeenThere: mls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Messaging Layer Security List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 May 2019 15:49:00 -0000 --0000000000008ca395058a1cd5c2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi all, As discussed at the interim, the authors have produced a version that has a bunch of typo and bugfixes on -05. This should be a good target for implementation and analysis. We plan to focus draft-07 (in the IETF 105 time frame) on more performance-related changes that have less impact on the analysis. One particular note / call for ideas: The interaction between the common framing and the confirmation MAC has led to a rather awkward dance to keep the transcript hash up to date. If folks have ideas for how we could more elegantyl provide the authentication function that the confirmation MAC provides, they would be very welcome. Mr. Beurdouche made some suggestive comments at the interim, but has yet to make a concrete proposal, so the field is open :) --Richard On Thu, May 30, 2019 at 11:45 AM wrote: > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts > directories. > This draft is a work item of the Messaging Layer Security WG of the IETF. > > Title : The Messaging Layer Security (MLS) Protocol > Authors : Richard Barnes > Jon Millican > Emad Omara > Katriel Cohn-Gordon > Raphael Robert > Filename : draft-ietf-mls-protocol-06.txt > Pages : 52 > Date : 2019-05-30 > > Abstract: > Messaging applications are increasingly making use of end-to-end > security mechanisms to ensure that messages are only accessible to > the communicating endpoints, and not to any servers involved in > delivering messages. Establishing keys to provide such protections > is challenging for group chat settings, in which more than two > clients need to agree on a key but may not be online at the same > time. In this document, we specify a key establishment protocol that > provides efficient asynchronous group key establishment with forward > secrecy and post-compromise security for groups in size ranging from > two to thousands. > > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mls-protocol/ > > There are also htmlized versions available at: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mls-protocol-06 > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-mls-protocol-06 > > A diff from the previous version is available at: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-mls-protocol-06 > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > _______________________________________________ > MLS mailing list > MLS@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mls > --0000000000008ca395058a1cd5c2 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi all,

As discussed at the = interim, the authors have produced a version that has a bunch of typo and b= ugfixes on -05.=C2=A0 This should be a good target for implementation and a= nalysis.=C2=A0 We plan to focus draft-07 (in the IETF 105 time frame) on mo= re performance-related changes that have less impact on the analysis.
=

One particular note / call for ideas: The interaction b= etween the common framing and the confirmation MAC has led to a rather awkw= ard dance to keep the transcript hash up to date.=C2=A0 If folks have ideas= for how we could more elegantyl provide the authentication function that t= he confirmation MAC provides, they would be very welcome.=C2=A0 Mr. Beurdou= che made some suggestive comments at the interim, but has yet to make a con= crete proposal, so the field is open :)

--Rich= ard


On Thu, May 30, 2019 at 11:45 AM <internet-drafts@ietf.org> wrote:

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director= ies.
This draft is a work item of the Messaging Layer Security WG of the IETF.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Title=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0:= The Messaging Layer Security (MLS) Protocol
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Authors=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0: Rich= ard Barnes
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Jon Millican
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Emad Omara
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Katriel Cohn-Gordon
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Raphael Robert
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Filename=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 : draft-iet= f-mls-protocol-06.txt
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Pages=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0:= 52
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Date=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 := 2019-05-30

Abstract:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Messaging applications are increasingly making use of end-to-e= nd
=C2=A0 =C2=A0security mechanisms to ensure that messages are only accessibl= e to
=C2=A0 =C2=A0the communicating endpoints, and not to any servers involved i= n
=C2=A0 =C2=A0delivering messages.=C2=A0 Establishing keys to provide such p= rotections
=C2=A0 =C2=A0is challenging for group chat settings, in which more than two=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0clients need to agree on a key but may not be online at the sa= me
=C2=A0 =C2=A0time.=C2=A0 In this document, we specify a key establishment p= rotocol that
=C2=A0 =C2=A0provides efficient asynchronous group key establishment with f= orward
=C2=A0 =C2=A0secrecy and post-compromise security for groups in size rangin= g from
=C2=A0 =C2=A0two to thousands.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ie= tf-mls-protocol/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mls-pro= tocol-06
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/htm= l/draft-ietf-mls-protocol-06

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddr= aft-ietf-mls-protocol-06


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio= n
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/

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