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Issues
------
* mlswg/mls-architecture (+1/-0/=F0=9F=92=AC0)
  1 issues created:
  - Client-side fanout (by ShivanKaul)
    https://github.com/mlswg/mls-architecture/issues/76=20




Repositories tracked by this digest:
-----------------------------------
* https://github.com/mlswg/mls-architecture
* https://github.com/mlswg/mls-protocol
* https://github.com/mlswg/mls-federation

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<h1>Sunday February 07, 2021</h1>


<h2>Issues</h2>

<h3>mlswg/mls-architecture (+1/-0/=F0=9F=92=AC0)</h3>
  <p class=3D"new">1 issues created:</p>
  <ul>
  <li>#76 <a href=3D"https://github.com/mlswg/mls-architecture/issues/76">C=
lient-side fanout</a> (by ShivanKaul) </li>
  </ul>






<h2>Repositories tracked by this digest:</h2>
<ul class=3D"repos">
  <li><a href=3D"https://github.com/mlswg/mls-architecture">https://github.=
com/mlswg/mls-architecture</a></li>
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mlswg/mls-protocol</a></li>
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From nobody Mon Feb  8 15:46:05 2021
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From: "Hubert Chathi" <hubertc@matrix.org>
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Subject: [MLS] question about group contexts and deriving epoch secrets
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When deriving the epoch secret, you do "ExpandWithLabel(., "epoch", Grou=
pContext_[n], KDF.Nh)", so you need a GroupContext.  As far as I can tel=
l, there appears to be a contradiction about which GroupContext to use: =
in the "Key Schedule" section (Line 1404), it says to use "The GroupCont=
ext object for current epoch", but in the "Commit" section under the par=
t talking about a group member who applies a Commit message (Line 2660),=
 it says to use the provisional GroupContext.  (The part talking about t=
he group member who creates the Commit message doesn't say which GroupCo=
ntext to use.)  If we are supposed to use the "new" GroupContext (after =
applying both the proposals and the update), but if we are supposed to u=
se the provisional GroupContext, then I don't think that a new member ha=
s access to the tree_hash or confirmed_transcript_hash to create the Gro=
upContext needed to derive the epoch secret.  So it seems like the "new"=
 GroupContext should be correct, but Line 2660 is pretty explicit about =
using the provisional GroupContext.


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From: Raphael Robert <raphael@wire.com>
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Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2021 10:56:07 +0100
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Subject: Re: [MLS] question about group contexts and deriving epoch secrets
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I think =E2=80=9Cnew GroupContext=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9Cprovisional =
GroupContext=E2=80=9D are synonyms.

Creating the Commit:
 - Use the confirmed transcript hash (old intermediate transcript hash =
combined with new commit content from current MLSPlaintext)
 - Create new provisional GroupContext with new provisional epoch (old =
epoch  + 1), new tree hash (after proposals were applied to old tree) =
and confirmed transcript hash from above

Applying a Commit as an existing member:
 - Same as creating a Commit

Joining a group from a Welcome message:
- Create GroupContext with epoch from GroupInfo, tree hash from =
GroupInfo and confirmed transcript hash from GroupInfo

Does that answer the question?

If you think the spec is wrong/confusing feel free to file a PR.

Raphael

> On 9. Feb 2021, at 00:45, Hubert Chathi <hubertc@matrix.org> wrote:
>=20
> When deriving the epoch secret, you do "ExpandWithLabel(., "epoch", =
GroupContext_[n], KDF.Nh)", so you need a GroupContext.  As far as I can =
tell, there appears to be a contradiction about which GroupContext to =
use: in the "Key Schedule" section (Line 1404), it says to use "The =
GroupContext object for current epoch", but in the "Commit" section =
under the part talking about a group member who applies a Commit message =
(Line 2660), it says to use the provisional GroupContext.  (The part =
talking about the group member who creates the Commit message doesn't =
say which GroupContext to use.)  If we are supposed to use the "new" =
GroupContext (after applying both the proposals and the update), but if =
we are supposed to use the provisional GroupContext, then I don't think =
that a new member has access to the tree_hash or =
confirmed_transcript_hash to create the GroupContext needed to derive =
the epoch secret.  So it seems like the "new" GroupContext should be =
correct, but Line 2660 is pretty expli
> cit about using the provisional GroupContext.
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> MLS mailing list
> MLS@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mls


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Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2021 18:44:30 -0500
From: "Hubert Chathi" <hubertc@matrix.org>
To: mls@ietf.org
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Subject: Re: [MLS] question about group contexts and deriving epoch secrets
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On Tue, 9 Feb 2021, at 04:56, Raphael Robert wrote:
> I think =E2=80=9Cnew GroupContext=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9Cprovisional Gr=
oupContext=E2=80=9D are synonyms.

I'm not so sure about this.  The "provisional GroupContext" is created a=
fter applying the proposals (line 2532), but before the UpdatePath is ap=
plied to the tree (line 2559).  Whereas, from what I understand, new mem=
bers are only given the tree after the UpdatePath is applied, which woul=
d give a different tree_hash and hence GroupContext.  I don't know if I'=
m just misunderstanding something.

> Creating the Commit:
>  - Use the confirmed transcript hash (old intermediate transcript hash=
=20
> combined with new commit content from current MLSPlaintext)
>  - Create new provisional GroupContext with new provisional epoch (old=
=20
> epoch  + 1), new tree hash (after proposals were applied to old tree)=20=

> and confirmed transcript hash from above
>=20
> Applying a Commit as an existing member:
>  - Same as creating a Commit
>=20
> Joining a group from a Welcome message:
> - Create GroupContext with epoch from GroupInfo, tree hash from=20
> GroupInfo and confirmed transcript hash from GroupInfo
>=20
> Does that answer the question?
>=20
> If you think the spec is wrong/confusing feel free to file a PR.

Yes, once I manage to understand what's going on, I plan on filing a PR.=


>=20
> Raphael
>=20
> > On 9. Feb 2021, at 00:45, Hubert Chathi <hubertc@matrix.org> wrote:
> >=20
> > When deriving the epoch secret, you do "ExpandWithLabel(., "epoch", =
GroupContext_[n], KDF.Nh)", so you need a GroupContext.  As far as I can=
 tell, there appears to be a contradiction about which GroupContext to u=
se: in the "Key Schedule" section (Line 1404), it says to use "The Group=
Context object for current epoch", but in the "Commit" section under the=
 part talking about a group member who applies a Commit message (Line 26=
60), it says to use the provisional GroupContext.  (The part talking abo=
ut the group member who creates the Commit message doesn't say which Gro=
upContext to use.)  If we are supposed to use the "new" GroupContext (af=
ter applying both the proposals and the update), but if we are supposed =
to use the provisional GroupContext, then I don't think that a new membe=
r has access to the tree_hash or confirmed_transcript_hash to create the=
 GroupContext needed to derive the epoch secret.  So it seems like the "=
new" GroupContext should be correct, but Line 2660 is pretty expli
> > cit about using the provisional GroupContext.
> >=20
> > _______________________________________________
> > MLS mailing list
> > MLS@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mls
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> MLS mailing list
> MLS@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mls
>


From nobody Fri Feb 12 16:35:47 2021
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Subject: [MLS] mls - Requested session has been scheduled for IETF 110
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Dear Sean Turner,

The session(s) that you have requested have been scheduled.
Below is the scheduled session information followed by
the original request. 


    mls Session 1 (1:00 requested)
    Monday, 8 March 2021, Session II 1530-1630
    Room Name: Room 6 size: 506
    ---------------------------------------------


iCalendar: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/110/sessions/mls.ics

Request Information:


---------------------------------------------------------
Working Group Name: Messaging Layer Security
Area Name: Security Area
Session Requester: Sean Turner


Number of Sessions: 1
Length of Session(s):  1 Hour
Number of Attendees: 25
Conflicts to Avoid: 
 Chair Conflict: cfrg pearg tls quic wpack privacypass masque

 Key Participant Conflict: acme artarea dispatch perc secdispatch





People who must be present:
  Benjamin Kaduk
  Nick Sullivan
  Richard Barnes
  Sean Turner

Resources Requested:

Special Requests:
  if wish comes to pass that needs to be a conflict for the chairs.
---------------------------------------------------------



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Subject: [MLS] Weekly github digest (MLS Working Group summary)
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Pull requests
-------------
* mlswg/mls-protocol (+1/-0/=F0=9F=92=AC2)
  1 pull requests submitted:
  - Make PreSharedKeys non optional in GroupSecrets (by raphaelrobert)
    https://github.com/mlswg/mls-protocol/pull/455=20

  1 pull requests received 2 new comments:
  - #455 Make PreSharedKeys non optional in GroupSecrets (2 by beurdouche)
    https://github.com/mlswg/mls-protocol/pull/455=20


Repositories tracked by this digest:
-----------------------------------
* https://github.com/mlswg/mls-architecture
* https://github.com/mlswg/mls-protocol
* https://github.com/mlswg/mls-federation

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<body>
<h1>Sunday February 14, 2021</h1>




<h2>Pull requests</h2>
<h3>mlswg/mls-protocol (+1/-0/=F0=9F=92=AC2)</h3>
  <p class=3D"new">1 pull requests submitted:</p>
  <ul>
  <li>#455 <a href=3D"https://github.com/mlswg/mls-protocol/pull/455">Make =
PreSharedKeys non optional in GroupSecrets</a> (by raphaelrobert) </li>
  </ul>

  <p>1 pull requests received 2 new comments:</p>
  <ul>
  <li>#455 <a href=3D"https://github.com/mlswg/mls-protocol/pull/455">Make =
PreSharedKeys non optional in GroupSecrets</a> (2 by beurdouche) </li>
  </ul>



<h2>Repositories tracked by this digest:</h2>
<ul class=3D"repos">
  <li><a href=3D"https://github.com/mlswg/mls-architecture">https://github.=
com/mlswg/mls-architecture</a></li>
  <li><a href=3D"https://github.com/mlswg/mls-protocol">https://github.com/=
mlswg/mls-protocol</a></li>
  <li><a href=3D"https://github.com/mlswg/mls-federation">https://github.co=
m/mlswg/mls-federation</a></li>
  </ul>
</body>
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Pull requests
-------------
* mlswg/mls-protocol (+1/-1/=F0=9F=92=AC1)
  1 pull requests submitted:
  - Update name for this particular key (by claucece)
    https://github.com/mlswg/mls-protocol/pull/456=20

  1 pull requests received 1 new comments:
  - #456 Update name for this particular key (1 by beurdouche)
    https://github.com/mlswg/mls-protocol/pull/456=20

  1 pull requests merged:
  - Update name for this particular key
    https://github.com/mlswg/mls-protocol/pull/456=20


Repositories tracked by this digest:
-----------------------------------
* https://github.com/mlswg/mls-architecture
* https://github.com/mlswg/mls-protocol
* https://github.com/mlswg/mls-federation

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<body>
<h1>Sunday February 21, 2021</h1>




<h2>Pull requests</h2>
<h3>mlswg/mls-protocol (+1/-1/=F0=9F=92=AC1)</h3>
  <p class=3D"new">1 pull requests submitted:</p>
  <ul>
  <li>#456 <a href=3D"https://github.com/mlswg/mls-protocol/pull/456">Updat=
e name for this particular key</a> (by claucece) </li>
  </ul>

  <p>1 pull requests received 1 new comments:</p>
  <ul>
  <li>#456 <a href=3D"https://github.com/mlswg/mls-protocol/pull/456">Updat=
e name for this particular key</a> (1 by beurdouche) </li>
  </ul>

  <p>1 pull requests merged:</p>
  <ul>
  <li>#456 <a href=3D"https://github.com/mlswg/mls-protocol/pull/456">Updat=
e name for this particular key</a> </li>
  </ul>


<h2>Repositories tracked by this digest:</h2>
<ul class=3D"repos">
  <li><a href=3D"https://github.com/mlswg/mls-architecture">https://github.=
com/mlswg/mls-architecture</a></li>
  <li><a href=3D"https://github.com/mlswg/mls-protocol">https://github.com/=
mlswg/mls-protocol</a></li>
  <li><a href=3D"https://github.com/mlswg/mls-federation">https://github.co=
m/mlswg/mls-federation</a></li>
  </ul>
</body>
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Hi! We have a meeting time scheduled for Monday, 8 March 2021 from =
1530-1630 (UTC). That=E2=80=99s one hour to review any proposed changes =
to the protocol I-D that have come up since last we met, updates on any =
security analysis (and potential changes as a result), as well any other =
protocol-related issues/PRs that we need to address/merge. Also on our =
plate is any updates to any pending changes to architecture I-D.

Are there any other topics that need to be addressed?

spt=


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From: Sean Turner <sean@sn3rd.com>
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Hi! I uploaded a proposed draft agenda for IETF 110.  The final agenda =
is due Monday, March 1st.

https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/110/materials/agenda-110-mls-00

Cheers,
Sean for the chairs=


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Dear, chair,

A few of us have been thinking on deniability and MLS, and how it will
fit into it. We put together a very early version of a draft describing
the needs and techniques:

https://github.com/claucece/draft-celi-mls-deniability/blob/main/draft-celi-mls-deniability.md

If there is the possibility on the agenda for a discussion around this
topic, I would be happy to present it during the upcoming IETF 110 meeting.

Thank you,


On 2/24/21 8:49 PM, Sean Turner wrote:
> Hi! We have a meeting time scheduled for Monday, 8 March 2021 from 1530-1630 (UTC). That’s one hour to review any proposed changes to the protocol I-D that have come up since last we met, updates on any security analysis (and potential changes as a result), as well any other protocol-related issues/PRs that we need to address/merge. Also on our plate is any updates to any pending changes to architecture I-D.
> 
> Are there any other topics that need to be addressed?
> 
> spt
> _______________________________________________
> MLS mailing list
> MLS@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mls
> 

-- 
Sofía Celi
@claucece
http://claucece.github.io/
Cryptographic research and implementation at many places, but mainly at
Cloudflare
FAB9 3EDC 7CDD 1198 DCFD  4558 91BB 6B45 6F44 2D02


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Issues
------
* mlswg/mls-protocol (+1/-0/=F0=9F=92=AC0)
  1 issues created:
  - Clarify ParentHash verification (by franziskuskiefer)
    https://github.com/mlswg/mls-protocol/issues/457=20




Repositories tracked by this digest:
-----------------------------------
* https://github.com/mlswg/mls-architecture
* https://github.com/mlswg/mls-protocol
* https://github.com/mlswg/mls-federation

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<body>
<h1>Sunday February 28, 2021</h1>


<h2>Issues</h2>

<h3>mlswg/mls-protocol (+1/-0/=F0=9F=92=AC0)</h3>
  <p class=3D"new">1 issues created:</p>
  <ul>
  <li>#457 <a href=3D"https://github.com/mlswg/mls-protocol/issues/457">Cla=
rify ParentHash verification</a> (by franziskuskiefer) </li>
  </ul>






<h2>Repositories tracked by this digest:</h2>
<ul class=3D"repos">
  <li><a href=3D"https://github.com/mlswg/mls-architecture">https://github.=
com/mlswg/mls-architecture</a></li>
  <li><a href=3D"https://github.com/mlswg/mls-protocol">https://github.com/=
mlswg/mls-protocol</a></li>
  <li><a href=3D"https://github.com/mlswg/mls-federation">https://github.co=
m/mlswg/mls-federation</a></li>
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