From mobopts-bounces@irtf.org Wed Nov 02 14:37:32 2005 Received: from localhost.cnri.reston.va.us ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EXOQO-0007WW-Jt; Wed, 02 Nov 2005 14:37:32 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EXOQM-0007SB-82 for mobopts@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 02 Nov 2005 14:37:30 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA03499 for ; Wed, 2 Nov 2005 14:37:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from darkstar.iprg.nokia.com ([205.226.5.69]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EXOey-00036p-NZ for mobopts@irtf.org; Wed, 02 Nov 2005 14:52:38 -0500 Received: (from root@localhost) by darkstar.iprg.nokia.com (8.11.0/8.11.0-DARKSTAR) id jA2J3ti19798; Wed, 2 Nov 2005 11:03:55 -0800 X-mProtect: <200511021903> Nokia Silicon Valley Messaging Protection Received: from mvdhcp14165.americas.nokia.com (172.18.141.65, claiming to be "[127.0.0.1]") by darkstar.iprg.nokia.com smtpdOdqVMU; Wed, 02 Nov 2005 11:03:53 PST Message-ID: <4369155C.4080204@iprg.nokia.com> Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2005 11:37:00 -0800 From: Rajeev Koodli User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Rajeev Koodli Subject: Re: [Mobopts] Vancouver Meeting Agenda References: <435E85C4.10303@iprg.nokia.com> <43626465.6050004@iprg.nokia.com> In-Reply-To: <43626465.6050004@iprg.nokia.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 2.4 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 287c806b254c6353fcb09ee0e53bbc5e Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: William Arbaugh , "mobopts@irtf.org" X-BeenThere: mobopts@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IP Mobility Optimizations List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mobopts-bounces@irtf.org Errors-To: mobopts-bounces@irtf.org All, it looks like we will have another 1/2 hour now since we are now meeting on Friday morning. 7.1 and 7.2 below both can take 10 minutes each. We also have another presentation on 9. Application Programming Interface to a Trigger Database for MOBIKE (making information about route changes, interface parameters, etc. available to higher-layer protocols) draft-schilcher-mobike-trigger-api-02.txt Hannes Tschofenig, 10 minutes Rajeev Koodli wrote: > > Here is an update to item 7), additional discussion on > network-controlled handover. > > 7.1 Network-controlled Handovers with MIP, additional discussion. > > draft-njedjou-iplocup-netcomm-problem-00.txt discussion > > Eric Njedjou, 5 minutes > > 7.2 draft-cui-mobopts-netctrl-handover-ps.txt > > Yong Cui, 5 minutes. > > Regards, > > -Rajeev > > > > > > Rajeev Koodli wrote: > >> >> Hello folks, >> >> here it is.. >> >> 0. Introduction, Chairs, < 5 minutes. >> >> 1. Transporting link characteristics as a function of mobility >> a) succint problem description >> b) why this is a problem of interest >> c) architectural implications >> >> Discussion led by Jouni Korhonen, 20 minutes. >> >> draft-korhonen-mobopts-link-characteristics-ps-00.txt >> >> 2. Network-controlled handovers >> a) succint problem description >> b) why this is a problem of interest >> c) precedence, tussle (between provider boundaries), limitations etc. >> >> Discussion led by Telemaco Melia, 20 minutes. >> >> draft-melia-mobopts-niho-ps-00.txt >> >> 3. Mobile IPv6 Location Privacy >> a) succint problem description >> b) solution alternatives >> >> Discussion led by Qiu Ying, 20 minutes. >> >> 4. Multicast and Mobility >> >> Thomas Schmidt, 15 minutes. >> >> 5. Pre-Authentication Framework >> >> Ashutosh Dutta, 15 minutes. >> >> draft-ohba-mobopts-heterogeneous-requirement-00.txt >> >> 6. L2 abstractions and Fast IP Handovers, Update >> >> Koshiro Mitsuya, 10 minutes. >> >> 7. Network-controlled Handovers with MIP, additional discussion. >> >> draft-njedjou-iplocup-netcomm-problem-00.txt discussion >> >> Eric Njedjou, 10 minutes >> >> 8. Context Transfer Using GIST >> >> draft-fu-cxtp-gist-00.txt >> >> Xiaoming Fu, 10 minutes. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Mobopts mailing list >> Mobopts@irtf.org >> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mobopts > > _______________________________________________ Mobopts mailing list Mobopts@irtf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mobopts From mobopts-bounces@irtf.org Mon Nov 07 20:31:33 2005 Received: from localhost.cnri.reston.va.us ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EZIKj-0005LS-DJ; Mon, 07 Nov 2005 20:31:33 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EZIKh-0005LN-Cj for mobopts@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 07 Nov 2005 20:31:31 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA29274 for ; Mon, 7 Nov 2005 20:31:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from s2.ifi.informatik.uni-goettingen.de ([134.76.81.12]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EZIaP-0001MM-Qh for mobopts@irtf.org; Mon, 07 Nov 2005 20:47:46 -0500 Received: from [209.52.111.213] (pp111-213.bctel.ca [::ffff:209.52.111.213]) (AUTH: LOGIN fu, TLS: TLSv1/SSLv3,256bits,AES256-SHA) by s2.ifi.informatik.uni-goettingen.de with esmtp; Tue, 08 Nov 2005 02:31:28 +0100 id 000084D6.436FFFF0.00003A4D Message-ID: <436FFFEC.9060107@cs.uni-goettingen.de> Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2005 02:31:24 +0100 From: Xiaoming Fu User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [Mobopts] new draft "CXTP using GIST" References: <43535EFE.1070409@cs.uni-goettingen.de> In-Reply-To: <43535EFE.1070409@cs.uni-goettingen.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 2.5 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 39bd8f8cbb76cae18b7e23f7cf6b2b9f Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Xiaoming Fu , John Loughney , Henning Peters , mobopts@irtf.org X-BeenThere: mobopts@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IP Mobility Optimizations List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mobopts-bounces@irtf.org Errors-To: mobopts-bounces@irtf.org Fyi: a prototype implementation of this draft is now freely available: http://user.informatik.uni-goettingen.de/~nsis/release/cxtp/ We would very appreciate your suggestions and comments on this work. Cheers, Xiaoming Xiaoming Fu wrote: > Hi all, > > We have submitted a new Internet draft on Context Transfer using GIST, > with the following abstract: > > Abstract: > The CXTP specification uses SCTP as transport for CXTP message > exchanges between a mobile node's new and previous access routers. > It also relies on a pre-established IPsec ESP transport mode tunnel. > This document presents an alternative approach based on the NSIS GIST > protocol, which offers a more flexible transport and richer security > properties for context transfer between different entities within the > network that support forwarding of a mobile node's IP traffic. > > Before it appears in IETF I-D repository, you can find it in the > following URL: > http://user.cs.uni-goettingen.de/~fu/temp/cxtpgist/draft-fu-cxtp-gist-00.txt > > http://user.cs.uni-goettingen.de/~fu/temp/cxtpgist/draft-fu-cxtp-gist-00.html > > > We would very appreciate it if you could review and comment on the draft. > > Thanks, > Xiaoming and John > > _______________________________________________ > Mobopts mailing list > Mobopts@irtf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mobopts _______________________________________________ Mobopts mailing list Mobopts@irtf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mobopts From mobopts-bounces@irtf.org Sun Nov 13 22:09:11 2005 Received: from localhost.cnri.reston.va.us ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EbUiV-00043O-AG; Sun, 13 Nov 2005 22:09:11 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EbUiT-00043J-Bt for mobopts@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 13 Nov 2005 22:09:09 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA19603 for ; Sun, 13 Nov 2005 22:08:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from lizzard.sbs.de ([194.138.37.39]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EbUzP-0002jC-3P for mobopts@irtf.org; Sun, 13 Nov 2005 22:26:40 -0500 Received: from mail2.sbs.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lizzard.sbs.de (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id jAE38rlF022692 for ; Mon, 14 Nov 2005 04:08:54 +0100 Received: from fthw9xoa.ww002.siemens.net (fthw9xoa.ww002.siemens.net [157.163.133.201]) by mail2.sbs.de (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id jAE38r6m008243 for ; Mon, 14 Nov 2005 04:08:53 +0100 Received: from MCHP7IEA.ww002.siemens.net ([139.25.131.145]) by fthw9xoa.ww002.siemens.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Mon, 14 Nov 2005 04:08:53 +0100 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 04:08:38 +0100 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: Mobility related API Thread-Index: AcXoyLVQxgfH6jTKQkScmQPKBmMaUQ== From: "Tschofenig, Hannes" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Nov 2005 03:08:53.0202 (UTC) FILETIME=[BE32A320:01C5E8C8] X-Spam-Score: 2.4 (++) X-Scan-Signature: cf4fa59384e76e63313391b70cd0dd25 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [Mobopts] Mobility related API X-BeenThere: mobopts@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IP Mobility Optimizations List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mobopts-bounces@irtf.org Errors-To: mobopts-bounces@irtf.org hi all,=20 problems with my laptop prevented me from showing the slides.=20 please find them at:=20 http://www.tschofenig.com/mobopts/IETF64/Mobility-related-API.ppt please take a look at the slides (and at the draft). drop me/us a note if you think that this is useful stuff.=20 ciao hannes ps: the draft can be found at:=20 http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-schilcher-mobike-trigger-api-0 2.txt=20 _______________________________________________ Mobopts mailing list Mobopts@irtf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mobopts From mobopts-bounces@irtf.org Mon Nov 14 14:19:08 2005 Received: from localhost.cnri.reston.va.us ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EbjrA-0004PN-Ks; Mon, 14 Nov 2005 14:19:08 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Ebjr8-0004PI-Pp for mobopts@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 14 Nov 2005 14:19:06 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA15406 for ; Mon, 14 Nov 2005 14:18:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from alpha1.its.monash.edu.au ([130.194.1.1]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ebk8C-0008WS-Lx for mobopts@irtf.org; Mon, 14 Nov 2005 14:36:46 -0500 Received: from curly.its.monash.edu.au ([130.194.13.87]) by vaxc.its.monash.edu.au (PMDF V6.1 #31112) with ESMTP id <01LVF17QCYOS9I7QMR@vaxc.its.monash.edu.au> for mobopts@irtf.org; Tue, 15 Nov 2005 06:18:57 +1100 Received: from curly.its.monash.edu.au (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with ESMTP id 961E9AB542; Tue, 15 Nov 2005 06:18:57 +1100 (EST) Received: from [172.19.242.3] (vpn-student-242-3.its.monash.edu.au [172.19.242.3]) by curly.its.monash.edu.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB21F4FB0A; Tue, 15 Nov 2005 06:18:56 +1100 (EST) Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 06:18:38 +1100 From: Greg Daley Subject: Re: [Mobopts] Mobility related API In-reply-to: To: "Tschofenig, Hannes" Message-id: <4378E30E.4070801@eng.monash.edu.au> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) References: X-Spam-Score: 2.4 (++) X-Scan-Signature: b4a0a5f5992e2a4954405484e7717d8c Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Cc: mobopts@irtf.org X-BeenThere: mobopts@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IP Mobility Optimizations List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mobopts-bounces@irtf.org Errors-To: mobopts-bounces@irtf.org Hi Hannes, Sorry I couldn't make it to the session. I've had some chats with people recently, and it may be good to look at the common elements required by upper-layer services (like mobike/mobileip) caused by address and routing changes (or expected changes). Some of these events may be due to underlying changes in wireless connectivity. As you mentioned in the slides, this may be related to 802.21-like events. I'd like to focus on Network-layer visible events though (as opposed to even media independent link-layer events). I think that some of these could be provided by DNA, or actively managed events from layer 2, which have upper-layer relevance (for example, something useful for FMIPv6). Identifying which classes of events are required in Mobike etc, may help clarify the overall architecture (though it may be the reverse of how to design things for IETF document development). Do you think we could discuss this on the mobopts list to see if there's interest and common ground? If there is, it would be interesting to see if we could do that without concentrating on a particular API, but the types of communications and parameters required. I guess the output could be something analogous to draft-ietf-dna-link-information-03.txt Comments and suggestions are welcome. Greg Tschofenig, Hannes wrote: > hi all, > > problems with my laptop prevented me from showing the slides. > please find them at: > > http://www.tschofenig.com/mobopts/IETF64/Mobility-related-API.ppt > > please take a look at the slides (and at the draft). drop me/us a note > if you think that this is useful stuff. > > ciao > hannes > > ps: the draft can be found at: > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-schilcher-mobike-trigger-api-0 > 2.txt > > _______________________________________________ > Mobopts mailing list > Mobopts@irtf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mobopts _______________________________________________ Mobopts mailing list Mobopts@irtf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mobopts From mobopts-bounces@irtf.org Mon Nov 14 21:03:07 2005 Received: from localhost.cnri.reston.va.us ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EbqA7-0001Xv-3C; Mon, 14 Nov 2005 21:03:07 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EbqA5-0001Wz-GA for mobopts@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 14 Nov 2005 21:03:05 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA20595 for ; Mon, 14 Nov 2005 21:02:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from laposte.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr ([192.44.77.17]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EbqRD-0000UG-0o for mobopts@irtf.org; Mon, 14 Nov 2005 21:20:48 -0500 Received: from l1.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr (l1.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr [192.44.77.3]) by laposte.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr (8.11.6p2/8.11.6/2003.04.01) with ESMTP id jAF22K907629; Tue, 15 Nov 2005 03:02:20 +0100 Received: from [172.16.5.148] ([209.82.80.118]) (authenticated bits=0) by l1.rennes.enst-bretagne.fr (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id jAF22Ith032086 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Tue, 15 Nov 2005 03:02:19 +0100 In-Reply-To: <4378E30E.4070801@eng.monash.edu.au> References: <4378E30E.4070801@eng.monash.edu.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Nicolas Montavont Subject: Re: [Mobopts] Mobility related API Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 03:02:22 +0100 To: Greg Daley X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-milter (http://amavis.org/) at enst-bretagne.fr X-Spam-Score: 2.4 (++) X-Scan-Signature: bdc523f9a54890b8a30dd6fd53d5d024 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: mobopts@irtf.org, "Tschofenig, Hannes" X-BeenThere: mobopts@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IP Mobility Optimizations List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mobopts-bounces@irtf.org Errors-To: mobopts-bounces@irtf.org Hi, On 14 nov. 05, at 20:18, Greg Daley wrote: > Hi Hannes, > > Sorry I couldn't make it to the session. > > I've had some chats with people recently, and it may > be good to look at the common elements required by > upper-layer services (like mobike/mobileip) caused > by address and routing changes (or expected changes). > > Some of these events may be due to underlying changes > in wireless connectivity. > > As you mentioned in the slides, this may be related to > 802.21-like events. I'd like to focus on Network-layer > visible events though (as opposed to even media independent > link-layer events). > > I think that some of these could be provided by DNA, > or actively managed events from layer 2, which have > upper-layer relevance (for example, something useful for > FMIPv6). > > Identifying which classes of events are required in > Mobike etc, may help clarify the overall architecture > (though it may be the reverse of how to design things > for IETF document development). I think this is a good idea, especially to identify which parameter/ event will be produced and which entity will use them. We should somehow avoid duplicate use of events. Defining an overall architecture would definitely help in understanding the relevance of parameter/events exchange. > > Do you think we could discuss this on the mobopts list to > see if there's interest and common ground? > > If there is, it would be interesting to see if we could > do that without concentrating on a particular API, > but the types of communications and parameters required. > > I guess the output could be something analogous to > draft-ietf-dna-link-information-03.txt I would support such a document. Nicolas > > > Comments and suggestions are welcome. > > Greg > > > Tschofenig, Hannes wrote: >> hi all, problems with my laptop prevented me from showing the >> slides. please find them at: http://www.tschofenig.com/mobopts/ >> IETF64/Mobility-related-API.ppt >> please take a look at the slides (and at the draft). drop me/us a >> note >> if you think that this is useful stuff. ciao >> hannes >> ps: the draft can be found at: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ >> draft-schilcher-mobike-trigger-api-0 >> 2.txt _______________________________________________ >> Mobopts mailing list >> Mobopts@irtf.org >> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mobopts > > > _______________________________________________ > Mobopts mailing list > Mobopts@irtf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mobopts _______________________________________________ Mobopts mailing list Mobopts@irtf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mobopts From mobopts-bounces@irtf.org Tue Nov 15 22:43:57 2005 Received: from localhost.cnri.reston.va.us ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EcEDF-00055B-Dt; Tue, 15 Nov 2005 22:43:57 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EcEDD-00054z-CY for mobopts@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 15 Nov 2005 22:43:55 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA25328 for ; Tue, 15 Nov 2005 22:43:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from usaga01-in.huawei.com ([12.129.211.51] helo=huawei.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EcEUY-0000eW-RV for mobopts@irtf.org; Tue, 15 Nov 2005 23:01:52 -0500 Received: from huawei.com (usaga01-in [172.18.4.6]) by usaga01-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.25 (built Mar 3 2004)) with ESMTP id <0IQ1003773IRQ1@usaga01-in.huawei.com> for mobopts@irtf.org; Tue, 15 Nov 2005 19:40:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from huawei.com ([172.17.1.218]) by usaga01-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.25 (built Mar 3 2004)) with ESMTP id <0IQ1003NK3IQ74@usaga01-in.huawei.com> for mobopts@irtf.org; Tue, 15 Nov 2005 19:40:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from [172.24.1.6] (Forwarded-For: [10.110.100.81]) by szxmc02-in.huawei.com (mshttpd); Wed, 16 Nov 2005 11:43:18 +0800 Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 11:43:18 +0800 From: mayuzhi 03573 To: mobopts@irtf.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: iPlanet Messenger Express 5.2 HotFix 1.25 (built Mar 3 2004) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-language: zh-CN Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline X-Accept-Language: zh-CN Priority: normal X-Spam-Score: 2.4 (++) X-Scan-Signature: de4f315c9369b71d7dd5909b42224370 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Subject: [Mobopts] draft from MIP6 X-BeenThere: mobopts@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IP Mobility Optimizations List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mobopts-bounces@irtf.org Errors-To: mobopts-bounces@irtf.org Hi all, I have presented my draft in IETF64. The chair of mip6 working group suggest that I should submit my draft to mobopts working group. Abstract of my draft is as follow: Any node communicating with a mobile node in Mobile IPv6 is referred to as a "correspondent node" of the mobile node, and may itself be either a stationary node or a mobile node. Communication between mobile nodes has additional complexity. This document specifies a solution to improve communication procedure between mobile nodes. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-yuchi-mip6-mntomn-improve-00.txt I would appreciate any feedback and comments. Thanks, Yuzhi Ma _______________________________________________ Mobopts mailing list Mobopts@irtf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mobopts From mobopts-bounces@irtf.org Sat Nov 19 14:10:54 2005 Received: from localhost.cnri.reston.va.us ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EdY6w-0006UX-9o; Sat, 19 Nov 2005 14:10:54 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EdY6u-0006Tz-Ew for mobopts@megatron.ietf.org; Sat, 19 Nov 2005 14:10:52 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA12557 for ; Sat, 19 Nov 2005 14:10:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from s2.ifi.informatik.uni-goettingen.de ([134.76.81.12]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EdYOz-00014E-Pl for mobopts@irtf.org; Sat, 19 Nov 2005 14:29:35 -0500 Received: from [172.22.0.51] (tmg51.tmg.loc [::ffff:172.22.0.51]) (AUTH: LOGIN fu, TLS: TLSv1/SSLv3,256bits,AES256-SHA) by s2.ifi.informatik.uni-goettingen.de with esmtp; Sat, 19 Nov 2005 20:10:42 +0100 id 000AB2C4.437F78B2.00001E93 Message-ID: <437F78B2.5050706@cs.uni-goettingen.de> Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 20:10:42 +0100 From: Xiaoming Fu User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: mobopts@irtf.org, mipshop@ietf.org References: <43535EFE.1070409@cs.uni-goettingen.de> <436FFFEC.9060107@cs.uni-goettingen.de> In-Reply-To: <436FFFEC.9060107@cs.uni-goettingen.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 2.4 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 68c8cc8a64a9d0402e43b8eee9fc4199 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: John Loughney , Xiaoming Fu Subject: [Mobopts] Presentation slides for "CXTP using GIST" X-BeenThere: mobopts@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IP Mobility Optimizations List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mobopts-bounces@irtf.org Errors-To: mobopts-bounces@irtf.org Hi all, Due to time limitation, mostly the Q&As in response to some reviewers' comments were discussed in the MOBOPTS RG meeting. For anyone interested in this draft, the slides are available in the following link: http://user.informatik.uni-goettingen.de/~fu/temp/cxtpgist/CXTPusingGIST_IETF64.ppt Please drop me/us a message if you think it may be useful, or any (additional) comments/suggestions you might have. Cheers, Xiaoming _______________________________________________ Mobopts mailing list Mobopts@irtf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mobopts From mobopts-bounces@irtf.org Mon Nov 21 08:05:43 2005 Received: from localhost.cnri.reston.va.us ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EeBMd-0006ZY-Nx; Mon, 21 Nov 2005 08:05:43 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EeBMb-0006SK-I0 for mobopts@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 21 Nov 2005 08:05:41 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA28359 for ; Mon, 21 Nov 2005 08:04:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from ip-10-194-65-202.rev.dyxnet.com ([202.65.194.10] helo=hitachi.cn) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EeBem-0002De-1m for mobopts@irtf.org; Mon, 21 Nov 2005 08:24:33 -0500 Received: (qmail 32431 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2005 13:04:56 -0000 X-NetworkBox-HamSign: 0101;OUT;hitachihk1;b766a4504316bc6849e170d7fdc8deb2; Received: from unknown (HELO hitachihk5.hitachi.cn) (170.95.94.1)by ip-11-194-65-202.rev.dyxnet.com with SMTP; 21 Nov 2005 13:04:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 4240 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2005 13:04:55 -0000 X-NetworkBox-HamSign: 0101;OUT;hitachihk5;cf902722c8ea62232765de81983b6777; Received: from hchidc204.hitachi-china.com (HELO hchidc204.hitachi.cn) (170.95.82.6)by 172.16.10.9 with SMTP; 21 Nov 2005 13:04:55 -0000 Received: from hcbjdc2.hitachi.cn ([170.95.81.2]) by hchidc204.hitachi.cn with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 21 Nov 2005 21:04:55 +0800 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 Subject: RE: [Mobopts] Presentation slides for "CXTP using GIST" Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 21:04:54 +0800 Message-ID: <834B54D356AA8F46B9B233DD88BEAA38BC69E3@hcbjdc2> Thread-Topic: [Mobopts] Presentation slides for "CXTP using GIST" Thread-Index: AcXtPVXFMTOCqFvDTKiVp+0PU6mO1wBXoO23 From: "DENG, HUI -HCHBJ" To: "Xiaoming Fu" , , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 Nov 2005 13:04:55.0664 (UTC) FILETIME=[2B2D8700:01C5EE9C] X-Scanned-By-hitachihk5: Virus scan performed by network-box X-Scanned-By-hitachihk5: Scanner file id is hitachihk5-1132578295.858-4237-000 X-Scanned-By-hitachihk5: No known viruses found in message (received+scanned in 0.01/0.06 secs) X-Scanned-By-hitachihk5: Spam-Check-Result: No, hits=0 required=7 tests= autolearn=no version=2.0 X-Spam-Status: No X-Scanned-By-hitachihk1: Virus scan performed by network-box X-Scanned-By-hitachihk1: Scanner file id is hitachihk1-1132578296.443-32421-000 X-Scanned-By-hitachihk1: No known viruses found in message (received+scanned in 0.01/0.02 secs) X-Scanned-By-hitachihk1: Spam-Check-Result: No, hits=0 required=7 tests= autolearn=no version=2.0 X-Scanned-By-hitachihk1: Whitelisted with valid signature (outbound via Network Box hitachihk5) X-Spam-Score: 2.4 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 2409bba43e9c8d580670fda8b695204a Cc: John Loughney , Xiaoming Fu X-BeenThere: mobopts@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IP Mobility Optimizations List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; 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While we have made every effort to keep our network virus free, we take no responsibility for any computer virus which might be transferred by way of this e-mail. --===============0325416681== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Mobopts mailing list Mobopts@irtf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mobopts --===============0325416681==-- From mobopts-bounces@irtf.org Mon Nov 21 08:25:48 2005 Received: from localhost.cnri.reston.va.us ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EeBg4-0001GD-TN; Mon, 21 Nov 2005 08:25:48 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EeBg3-0001G3-Sk; Mon, 21 Nov 2005 08:25:48 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA29688; Mon, 21 Nov 2005 08:25:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from gecko.sbs.de ([194.138.37.40]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EeByV-0002oY-7S; Mon, 21 Nov 2005 08:44:52 -0500 Received: from mail2.sbs.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gecko.sbs.de (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id jALDNYs8018696; Mon, 21 Nov 2005 14:23:34 +0100 Received: from fthw9xpa.ww002.siemens.net (fthw9xpa.ww002.siemens.net [157.163.133.222]) by mail2.sbs.de (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id jALDNWEo004550; Mon, 21 Nov 2005 14:23:33 +0100 Received: from MCHP7IEA.ww002.siemens.net ([139.25.131.146]) by fthw9xpa.ww002.siemens.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Mon, 21 Nov 2005 14:23:32 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: AW: [Mobopts] Presentation slides for "CXTP using GIST" Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 14:23:14 +0100 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [Mobopts] Presentation slides for "CXTP using GIST" Thread-Index: AcXtPVXFMTOCqFvDTKiVp+0PU6mO1wBXoO23AAB55SA= From: "Tschofenig, Hannes" To: "DENG, HUI -HCHBJ" , "Xiaoming Fu" , , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 Nov 2005 13:23:32.0382 (UTC) FILETIME=[C4CB2BE0:01C5EE9E] X-Spam-Score: 2.4 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 8b30eb7682a596edff707698f4a80f7d Cc: John Loughney , Xiaoming Fu X-BeenThere: mobopts@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IP Mobility Optimizations List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0804281034==" Sender: mobopts-bounces@irtf.org Errors-To: mobopts-bounces@irtf.org --===============0804281034== Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 aGkgaHVpDQoNCnRoZXJlIGFyZSB0d28gaXNzdWVzIHRvIGRpc2N1c3M6DQoNCmEpIHdoaWNoIHNl Y3VyaXR5IG1lY2hhbmlzbXMgeW91IHVzZSBmb3IgcHJvdGVjdGlvbiBvZiB0aGUgY29udGV4dCB0 cmFuc2ZlciBiZXR3ZWVuIHRoZSBvbGQgYXIgYW5kIHRoZSBuZXcgYXIuIA0KDQpiKSB3aGljaCBj b250ZXh0IHlvdSB0cmFuc2ZlciBiZXR3ZWVuIHRoZXNlIGRldmljZXMuIA0KDQppIGNvdWxkIG5v dCByZW1lbWJlciB4aWFvbWluZyBhbmQgam9obiBwcm9wb3NpbmcgdG8gdHJhbnNmZXIgaXBzZWMg c2FzIGFzIHBhcnQgb2YgKGIpLiBpZiB5b3Ugd291bGQgbGlrZSB0byB0cmFuc2ZlciBpcHNlYyBz YXMgdGhlbiB0aGUgcGFzdCBpbnZlc3RpZ2F0aW9ucyBpbiwgZm9yIGV4YW1wbGUsIDxkcmFmdC1o ay1zZWFtb2J5LWN0LWlwc2VjLTAwLnR4dD4gb3IgPGRyYWZ0LWdvcGFsLXNlYW1vYnktaXBzZWNj dHh0LWlzc3Vlcy0wMS50eHQ+IG1pZ2h0IGJlIHdvcnRoIHRha2luZyBhIGxvb2suIA0KDQpjaWFv DQpoYW5uZXMNCg0KPiAtLS0tLVVyc3Byw7xuZ2xpY2hlIE5hY2hyaWNodC0tLS0tDQo+IFZvbjog bW9ib3B0cy1ib3VuY2VzQGlydGYub3JnIA0KPiBbbWFpbHRvOm1vYm9wdHMtYm91bmNlc0BpcnRm Lm9yZ10gSW0gQXVmdHJhZyB2b24gREVORywgSFVJIC1IQ0hCSg0KPiBHZXNlbmRldDogTW9udGFn LCAyMS4gTm92ZW1iZXIgMjAwNSAxNDowNQ0KPiBBbjogWGlhb21pbmcgRnU7IG1vYm9wdHNAaXJ0 Zi5vcmc7IG1pcHNob3BAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCj4gQ2M6IEpvaG4gTG91Z2huZXk7IFhpYW9taW5nIEZ1 DQo+IEJldHJlZmY6IFJFOiBbTW9ib3B0c10gUHJlc2VudGF0aW9uIHNsaWRlcyBmb3IgIkNYVFAg dXNpbmcgR0lTVCINCj4gDQo+IEhpLCBYaWFvbWluZw0KPiAgDQo+IEkgYW0gc3RpbGwgd29uZGVy aW5nIGhvdyBjb3VsZCB5b3UgaGFuZGxlIElQc2VjIFNBIHRyYW5zZmVyLCANCj4gZXhwZWNpYWxs eSBpbml0aWFsaXplIHZlY3RvciBhbmQgYW50aS1yZXBsYXkgd2luZG93Lg0KPiAgDQo+IFRoYW5r cw0KPiAgDQo+IC1IdWkNCj4gIA0KPiANCj4gCS0tLS0tT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZS0tLS0tIA0K PiAJRnJvbTogWGlhb21pbmcgRnUgW21haWx0bzpmdUBjcy51bmktZ29ldHRpbmdlbi5kZV0gDQo+ IAlTZW50OiAyMDA1LTExLTIwICjmmJ/mnJ/ml6UpIDM6MTAgDQo+IAlUbzogbW9ib3B0c0BpcnRm Lm9yZzsgbWlwc2hvcEBpZXRmLm9yZyANCj4gCUNjOiBKb2huIExvdWdobmV5OyBYaWFvbWluZyBG dSANCj4gCVN1YmplY3Q6IFtNb2JvcHRzXSBQcmVzZW50YXRpb24gc2xpZGVzIGZvciAiQ1hUUCB1 c2luZyBHSVNUIg0KPiAJDQo+IAkNCj4gDQo+IAlIaSBhbGwsIA0KPiANCj4gCUR1ZSB0byB0aW1l IGxpbWl0YXRpb24sIG1vc3RseSB0aGUgUSZBcyBpbiByZXNwb25zZSB0byANCj4gc29tZSByZXZp ZXdlcnMnIA0KPiAJY29tbWVudHMgd2VyZSBkaXNjdXNzZWQgaW4gdGhlIE1PQk9QVFMgUkcgbWVl dGluZy4gRm9yIA0KPiBhbnlvbmUgaW50ZXJlc3RlZCANCj4gCWluIHRoaXMgZHJhZnQsIHRoZSBz bGlkZXMgYXJlIGF2YWlsYWJsZSBpbiB0aGUgZm9sbG93aW5nIGxpbms6IA0KPiAJDQo+IGh0dHA6 Ly91c2VyLmluZm9ybWF0aWsudW5pLWdvZXR0aW5nZW4uZGUvfmZ1L3RlbXAvY3h0cGdpc3QvQ1hU DQpQdXNpbmdHSVNUX0lFVEY2NC5wcHQgDQo+IA0KPiAJUGxlYXNlIGRyb3AgbWUvdXMgYSBtZXNz YWdlIGlmIHlvdSB0aGluayBpdCBtYXkgYmUgDQo+IHVzZWZ1bCwgb3IgYW55IA0KPiAJKGFkZGl0 aW9uYWwpIGNvbW1lbnRzL3N1Z2dlc3Rpb25zIHlvdSBtaWdodCBoYXZlLiANCj4gDQo+IAlDaGVl cnMsIA0KPiAJWGlhb21pbmcgDQo+IA0KPiAJX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18gDQo+IAlNb2JvcHRzIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdCANCj4gCU1vYm9wdHNA aXJ0Zi5vcmcgDQo+IAlodHRwczovL3d3dzEuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9tb2Jv cHRzIA0KPiANCj4gDiscenkn7bKHKx5qd2LGrSEn2p8meSd+J17Ymt2Zei15Gtan2rpoLHYeIRZ6 eit2YumailYrLWpHFnrtobfethbKi157XtedIideasenDQo+INifXnpl6ZqKVidqaMibddeletei Ki4mXsys6aKaZ14rYXp+16sh3p5t6Ke1eXIqYnp7cumusili6ZqKWitqWnIZK3YrHB4Xe14tXtaG KV5adXp9KyR5aN63DQo+ICt5Hh7esicmK3J+2p8nKHowJyEoIX15fmINCj4gDQo= --===============0804281034== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Mobopts mailing list Mobopts@irtf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mobopts --===============0804281034==-- From mobopts-bounces@irtf.org Mon Nov 21 16:40:10 2005 Received: from localhost.cnri.reston.va.us ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EeJOU-0007ck-9y; Mon, 21 Nov 2005 16:40:10 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EeJOQ-0007by-Mo for mobopts@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 21 Nov 2005 16:40:08 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA15688 for ; Mon, 21 Nov 2005 16:39:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from s2.ifi.informatik.uni-goettingen.de ([134.76.81.12]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EeJgw-0003YH-33 for mobopts@irtf.org; Mon, 21 Nov 2005 16:59:15 -0500 Received: from [84.132.134.227] (p548486E3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [::ffff:84.132.134.227]) (AUTH: LOGIN fu, TLS: TLSv1/SSLv3,256bits,AES256-SHA) by s2.ifi.informatik.uni-goettingen.de with esmtp; Mon, 21 Nov 2005 22:39:56 +0100 id 000AB2FF.43823EAC.000074B2 Message-ID: <43823EAB.4070906@cs.uni-goettingen.de> Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 22:39:55 +0100 From: Xiaoming Fu User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To: "Tschofenig, Hannes" , "DENG, HUI -HCHBJ" Subject: Re: [Mipshop] AW: [Mobopts] Presentation slides for "CXTP using GIST" References: In-Reply-To: X-Mime-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by courier 0.47 X-Spam-Score: 2.4 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 31247fb3be228bb596db9127becad0bc Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: mipshop@ietf.org, mobopts@irtf.org X-BeenThere: mobopts@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IP Mobility Optimizations List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mobopts-bounces@irtf.org Errors-To: mobopts-bounces@irtf.org Hi Hannes, Hui, Thanks for your insights. My additional comments inline: Tschofenig, Hannes wrote: > hi hui > > there are two issues to discuss: > > a) which security mechanisms you use for protection of the context > transfer between the old ar and the new ar. > > b) which context you transfer between these devices. > In the present draft we are mostly concentrating on the transport mechanism for transfering contexts related to the end-to-end communication for a mobile node. Which exact context (ie., object format) is still yet to be discussed in a future work. If you mean the case where last hop communication (between the access router and mobile node) for a MN-CN flow is using IPsec, some parameters= such as ESP encryption algorithm and keys would be possible to be transferred between access routers. As described in the drafts mentioned= by Hannes, handling of real time parameters in the SA would be also possible. I guess you are not talking about issue a). For a) actually we could utilize the secure mode of GIST (e.g., TLS over TCP/SCTP or IPsec) to transfer the desired context, where a secure message association could be used in the "half-permanent" fashion, without the need to exchange those security parameters on demand either per-MN movement or per-flow. Cheers, Xiaoming > i could not remember xiaoming and john proposing to transfer ipsec > sas as part of (b). if you would like to transfer ipsec sas then the > past investigations in, for example, > or > might be worth taking a > look. > > ciao hannes > > >> -----Urspr=C3=BCngliche Nachricht----- Von: mobopts-bounces@irtf.org >> [mailto:mobopts-bounces@irtf.org] Im Auftrag von DENG, HUI -HCHBJ >> Gesendet: Montag, 21. November 2005 14:05 An: Xiaoming Fu; >> mobopts@irtf.org; mipshop@ietf.org Cc: John Loughney; Xiaoming Fu >> Betreff: RE: [Mobopts] Presentation slides for "CXTP using GIST" >> >> Hi, Xiaoming >> >> I am still wondering how could you handle IPsec SA transfer, >> expecially initialize vector and anti-replay window. >> >> Thanks >> >> -Hui >> >> >> -----Original Message----- From: Xiaoming Fu >> [mailto:fu@cs.uni-goettingen.de] Sent: 2005-11-20 (=E6=98=9F=E6=9C=9F= =E6=97=A5) 3:10 To: >> mobopts@irtf.org; mipshop@ietf.org Cc: John Loughney; Xiaoming Fu >> Subject: [Mobopts] Presentation slides for "CXTP using GIST" >> >> Hi all, >> >> Due to time limitation, mostly the Q&As in response to some >> reviewers' comments were discussed in the MOBOPTS RG meeting. For >> anyone interested in this draft, the slides are available in the >> following link: >> http://user.informatik.uni-goettingen.de/~fu/temp/cxtpgist/CXT > > PusingGIST_IETF64.ppt > >> Please drop me/us a message if you think it may be useful, or any >> (additional) comments/suggestions you might have. >> >> Cheers, Xiaoming >> _______________________________________________ Mobopts mailing list Mobopts@irtf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mobopts From mobopts-bounces@irtf.org Tue Nov 22 12:04:20 2005 Received: from localhost.cnri.reston.va.us ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EebZ6-00070e-3x; Tue, 22 Nov 2005 12:04:20 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EebZ0-0006zX-9A for mobopts@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 22 Nov 2005 12:04:18 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA12677 for ; Tue, 22 Nov 2005 12:03:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from key1.docomolabs-usa.com ([216.98.102.225] helo=fridge.docomolabs-usa.com ident=fwuser) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Eebra-0006FS-JK for mobopts@irtf.org; Tue, 22 Nov 2005 12:23:29 -0500 Message-ID: <00d801c5ef86$b91f75b0$4f6115ac@dcml.docomolabsusa.com> From: "James Kempf" To: "Tschofenig, Hannes" , "DENG, HUI -HCHBJ" , "Xiaoming Fu" , , References: Subject: Re: [Mipshop] AW: [Mobopts] Presentation slides for "CXTP using GIST" Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 09:03:55 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="utf-8"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 2.4 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 2857c5c041d6c02d7181d602c22822c8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: Xiaoming Fu X-BeenThere: mobopts@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IP Mobility Optimizations List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mobopts-bounces@irtf.org Errors-To: mobopts-bounces@irtf.org IPsec context is pretty much out, unless what is exchanged does not invol= ve=20 the shared key. So is any AAA context that involves a shared key. Please = see=20 http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-housley-aaa-key-mgmt-01.txt for= a=20 discussion of why propagating shared keys in this manner is not secure. T= he=20 draft talks specifically about AAA-derived keys, but could as well be=20 applied to IPsec derived keys. jak ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Tschofenig, Hannes" To: "DENG, HUI -HCHBJ" ; "Xiaoming Fu"=20 ; ; Cc: "Xiaoming Fu" Sent: Monday, November 21, 2005 5:23 AM Subject: [Mipshop] AW: [Mobopts] Presentation slides for "CXTP using GIST= " > hi hui > > there are two issues to discuss: > > a) which security mechanisms you use for protection of the context=20 > transfer between the old ar and the new ar. > > b) which context you transfer between these devices. > > i could not remember xiaoming and john proposing to transfer ipsec sas = as=20 > part of (b). if you would like to transfer ipsec sas then the past=20 > investigations in, for example, or=20 > might be worth taking a=20 > look. > > ciao > hannes > >> -----Urspr=C3=BCngliche Nachricht----- >> Von: mobopts-bounces@irtf.org >> [mailto:mobopts-bounces@irtf.org] Im Auftrag von DENG, HUI -HCHBJ >> Gesendet: Montag, 21. November 2005 14:05 >> An: Xiaoming Fu; mobopts@irtf.org; mipshop@ietf.org >> Cc: John Loughney; Xiaoming Fu >> Betreff: RE: [Mobopts] Presentation slides for "CXTP using GIST" >> >> Hi, Xiaoming >> >> I am still wondering how could you handle IPsec SA transfer, >> expecially initialize vector and anti-replay window. >> >> Thanks >> >> -Hui >> >> >> -----Original Message-----=20 >> From: Xiaoming Fu [mailto:fu@cs.uni-goettingen.de] >> Sent: 2005-11-20 (=E6=98=9F=E6=9C=9F=E6=97=A5) 3:10 >> To: mobopts@irtf.org; mipshop@ietf.org >> Cc: John Loughney; Xiaoming Fu >> Subject: [Mobopts] Presentation slides for "CXTP using GIST" >> >> >> >> Hi all, >> >> Due to time limitation, mostly the Q&As in response to >> some reviewers' >> comments were discussed in the MOBOPTS RG meeting. For >> anyone interested >> in this draft, the slides are available in the following link: >> >> http://user.informatik.uni-goettingen.de/~fu/temp/cxtpgist/CXT > PusingGIST_IETF64.ppt >> >> Please drop me/us a message if you think it may be >> useful, or any >> (additional) comments/suggestions you might have. >> >> Cheers, >> Xiaoming >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Mobopts mailing list >> Mobopts@irtf.org >> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mobopts >> >> =0E+=1Czy'=ED=B2=87+=1Ejwb=C6=AD!'=DA=9F&y'~'^=D8=9A=DD=99z-y=1A=D6=A7= =DA=BAh,v=1E!=16zz+vb=E9=9A=8AV+-jG=16z=ED=A1=B7=DE=B6=16=CA=8B^{^=D7=9D"= '^j=C7=A7 >> =D8=9F^ze=E9=9A=8AV'jh=C8=9Bu=D7=A5z=D7=A2*.&^=CC=AC=E9=A2=9Ag^+az~=D7= =AB!=DE=9Em=E8=A7=B5yr*bz{r=E9=AE=B2)b=E9=9A=8AZ+jZr=19+v+=1C=1E=17{^-^=D6= =86)^Zuz}+$yh=DE=B7 >> +y=1E=1E=DE=B2'&+r~=DA=9F'(z0'!(!}y~b >> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- > _______________________________________________ > Mipshop mailing list > Mipshop@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mipshop >=20 _______________________________________________ Mobopts mailing list Mobopts@irtf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mobopts From mobopts-bounces@irtf.org Wed Nov 23 01:07:40 2005 Received: from localhost.cnri.reston.va.us ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EennA-0005co-8W; Wed, 23 Nov 2005 01:07:40 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Eenn8-0005cH-CJ for mobopts@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 23 Nov 2005 01:07:38 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA14588 for ; Wed, 23 Nov 2005 01:06:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from ip-10-194-65-202.rev.dyxnet.com ([202.65.194.10] helo=hitachi.cn) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Eeo5v-00028S-Fl for mobopts@irtf.org; Wed, 23 Nov 2005 01:27:04 -0500 Received: (qmail 17304 invoked from network); 23 Nov 2005 06:07:26 -0000 X-NetworkBox-HamSign: 0101;OUT;hitachihk1;f1b7cfe279904f4d75ac11b8e872cd11; Received: from unknown (HELO hitachihk5.hitachi.cn) (170.95.94.1)by ip-11-194-65-202.rev.dyxnet.com with SMTP; 23 Nov 2005 06:07:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 15302 invoked from network); 23 Nov 2005 06:07:25 -0000 X-NetworkBox-HamSign: 0101;OUT;hitachihk5;a7e283a5633675b8ecd798908bd6f5b7; Received: from hchidc204.hitachi-china.com (HELO hchidc204.hitachi.cn) (170.95.82.6)by 172.16.10.9 with SMTP; 23 Nov 2005 06:07:25 -0000 Received: from hcbjdc2.hitachi.cn ([170.95.81.2]) by hchidc204.hitachi.cn with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 23 Nov 2005 14:07:25 +0800 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset="utf-7" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 14:07:23 +0800 Message-ID: <834B54D356AA8F46B9B233DD88BEAA38FD1CFD@hcbjdc2> Thread-Topic: +AFs-Mipshop+AF0- AW: +AFs-Mobopts+AF0- Presentation slides for +ACI-CXTP using GIST+ACI- Thread-Index: AcXvhs8CFXJ9ZCqdTOCr2nA8jLChPAAbPOEQ From: "+ACI-DENG, HUI -HCHBJ+ACI-" To: "James Kempf" , "+ACI-Tschofenig, Hannes+ACI-" , "Xiaoming Fu" , , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Nov 2005 06:07:25.0144 (UTC) FILETIME=[2CBB0580:01C5EFF4] X-Scanned-By-hitachihk5: Virus scan performed by network-box X-Scanned-By-hitachihk5: Scanner file id is hitachihk5-1132726045.355-15299-000 X-Scanned-By-hitachihk5: No known viruses found in message (received+scanned in 0.01/0.06 secs) X-Scanned-By-hitachihk5: Spam-Check-Result: No, hits=0 required=7 tests= autolearn=no version=2.0 X-Spam-Status: No X-Scanned-By-hitachihk1: Virus scan performed by network-box X-Scanned-By-hitachihk1: Scanner file id is hitachihk1-1132726045.988-17270-000 X-Scanned-By-hitachihk1: No known viruses found in message (received+scanned in 0.02/0.02 secs) X-Scanned-By-hitachihk1: Spam-Check-Result: No, hits=0 required=7 tests= autolearn=no version=2.0 X-Scanned-By-hitachihk1: Whitelisted with valid signature (outbound via Network Box hitachihk5) X-Spam-Score: 2.7 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 36b1f8810cb91289d885dc8ab4fc8172 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Xiaoming Fu Subject: [Mobopts] RE: +AFs-Mipshop+AF0- AW: +AFs-Mobopts+AF0- Presentation slides for +ACI-CXTP using GIST+ACI- X-BeenThere: mobopts@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IP Mobility Optimizations List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mobopts-bounces@irtf.org Errors-To: mobopts-bounces@irtf.org As recalled during the mobopts session in Vancouver, Xiaoming said that one of their motivation is to solve this issue? -Hui +AD4- -----Original Message----- +AD4- From: James Kempf +AFs-mailto:Kempf+AEA-docomolabs-usa.com+AF0- +AD4- Sent: 2005+XnQ-11+Zwg-23+ZeU- 1:04 +AD4- To: Tschofenig, Hannes+ADs- DENG, HUI -HCHBJ+ADs- Xiaoming Fu+ADs- +AD4- mobopts+AEA-irtf.org+ADs- mipshop+AEA-ietf.org +AD4- Cc: Xiaoming Fu +AD4- Subject: Re: +AFs-Mipshop+AF0- AW: +AFs-Mobopts+AF0- Presentation slides for +AD4- +ACI-CXTP using GIST+ACI- +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- IPsec context is pretty much out, unless what is exchanged +AD4- does not involve +AD4- the shared key. So is any AAA context that involves a shared +AD4- key. Please see +AD4- http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-housley-aaa-key-mgmt +AD4- -01.txt for a +AD4- discussion of why propagating shared keys in this manner is +AD4- not secure. The +AD4- draft talks specifically about AAA-derived keys, but could as well be +AD4- applied to IPsec derived keys. +AD4- +AD4- jak +AD4- +AD4- ----- Original Message ----- +AD4- From: +ACI-Tschofenig, Hannes+ACI- +ADw-hannes.tschofenig+AEA-siemens.com+AD4- +AD4- To: +ACI-DENG, HUI -HCHBJ+ACI- +ADw-hdeng+AEA-hitachi.cn+AD4AOw- +ACI-Xiaoming Fu+ACI- +AD4- +ADw-fu+AEA-cs.uni-goettingen.de+AD4AOw- +ADw-mobopts+AEA-irtf.org+AD4AOw- +ADw-mipshop+AEA-ietf.org+AD4- +AD4- Cc: +ACI-Xiaoming Fu+ACI- +ADw-fu+AEA-cs.uni-goettingen.de+AD4- +AD4- Sent: Monday, November 21, 2005 5:23 AM +AD4- Subject: +AFs-Mipshop+AF0- AW: +AFs-Mobopts+AF0- Presentation slides for +AD4- +ACI-CXTP using GIST+ACI- +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- hi hui +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- there are two issues to discuss: +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- a) which security mechanisms you use for protection of the context +AD4- +AD4- transfer between the old ar and the new ar. +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- b) which context you transfer between these devices. +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- i could not remember xiaoming and john proposing to +AD4- transfer ipsec sas +AD4- +AD4- as +AD4- +AD4- part of (b). if you would like to transfer ipsec sas then the past +AD4- +AD4- investigations in, for example, +AD4- +ADw-draft-hk-seamoby-ct-ipsec-00.txt+AD4- or +AD4- +AD4- +ADw-draft-gopal-seamoby-ipsecctxt-issues-01.txt+AD4- might be +AD4- worth taking a +AD4- +AD4- look. +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- ciao +AD4- +AD4- hannes +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- +AD4APg- -----Urspr+APw-ngliche Nachricht----- +AD4- +AD4APg- Von: mobopts-bounces+AEA-irtf.org +AFs-mailto:mobopts-bounces+AEA-irtf.org+AF0- Im +AD4- +AD4APg- Auftrag von DENG, HUI -HCHBJ +AD4- +AD4APg- Gesendet: Montag, 21. November 2005 14:05 +AD4- +AD4APg- An: Xiaoming Fu+ADs- mobopts+AEA-irtf.org+ADs- mipshop+AEA-ietf.org +AD4- +AD4APg- Cc: John Loughney+ADs- Xiaoming Fu +AD4- +AD4APg- Betreff: RE: +AFs-Mobopts+AF0- Presentation slides for +ACI-CXTP using GIST+ACI- +AD4- +AD4APg- +AD4- +AD4APg- Hi, Xiaoming +AD4- +AD4APg- +AD4- +AD4APg- I am still wondering how could you handle IPsec SA transfer, +AD4- +AD4APg- expecially initialize vector and anti-replay window. +AD4- +AD4APg- +AD4- +AD4APg- Thanks +AD4- +AD4APg- +AD4- +AD4APg- -Hui +AD4- +AD4APg- +AD4- +AD4APg- +AD4- +AD4APg- -----Original Message----- +AD4- +AD4APg- From: Xiaoming Fu +AFs-mailto:fu+AEA-cs.uni-goettingen.de+AF0- +AD4- +AD4APg- Sent: 2005-11-20 (+Zh9nH2Xl-) 3:10 +AD4- +AD4APg- To: mobopts+AEA-irtf.org+ADs- mipshop+AEA-ietf.org +AD4- +AD4APg- Cc: John Loughney+ADs- Xiaoming Fu +AD4- +AD4APg- Subject: +AFs-Mobopts+AF0- Presentation slides for +ACI-CXTP using GIST+ACI- +AD4- +AD4APg- +AD4- +AD4APg- +AD4- +AD4APg- +AD4- +AD4APg- Hi all, +AD4- +AD4APg- +AD4- +AD4APg- Due to time limitation, mostly the Q+ACY-As in response to +AD4- +AD4APg- some reviewers' +AD4- +AD4APg- comments were discussed in the MOBOPTS RG meeting. For anyone +AD4- +AD4APg- interested in this draft, the slides are available in the +AD4- following +AD4- +AD4APg- link: +AD4- +AD4APg- +AD4- +AD4APg- http://user.informatik.uni-goettingen.de/+AH4-fu/temp/cxtpgist/CXT +AD4- +AD4- PusingGIST+AF8-IETF64.ppt +AD4- +AD4APg- +AD4- +AD4APg- Please drop me/us a message if you think it may be +AD4- +AD4APg- useful, or any +AD4- +AD4APg- (additional) comments/suggestions you might have. +AD4- +AD4APg- +AD4- +AD4APg- Cheers, +AD4- +AD4APg- Xiaoming +AD4- +AD4APg- +AD4- +AD4APg- +AF8AXwBfAF8AXwBfAF8AXwBfAF8AXwBfAF8AXwBfAF8AXwBfAF8AXwBfAF8AXwBfAF8AXwBfAF8AXwBfAF8AXwBfAF8AXwBfAF8AXwBfAF8AXwBfAF8AXwBfAF8AXw- +AD4- +AD4APg- Mobopts mailing list +AD4- +AD4APg- Mobopts+AEA-irtf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mobopts +AD4- +AD4APg- +AD4- +AD4APg- +AA4-+-+ABw-zy'+3Ic-+-+AB4-jwb+Aa0-+ACE-'+Bp8-+ACY-y'+AH4-'+AF4-+BhoHWQ-z-y+ABo-+Bac-+Bro-h,v+AB4AIQAW-zz+-vb+loo-V+--jG+ABY-z+2HcHtg-+ABY-+Aos-+AF4AewBeBd0AIg-'+AF4-j+Aec- +AD4- +AD4APg- +Bh8AXg-ze+loo-V'jh+Ahs-u+BeU-z+BeIAKg-.+ACYAXg-+Ayw-+mJo-g+AF4-+-az+AH4-+Bes-+ACE-+B54-m+ifU-yr+ACo-bz+AHs-r+m7I-)b+loo- +AD4- Z+-jZr+ABk-+-v+-+ABwAHgAXAHsAXg--+AF4-+BYY-)+AF4-Zuz+AH0-+-+ACQ-yh +AD4- +AD4APg- +B7c- +AD4- +AD4APg- +-y+AB4AHg-+B7I-'+ACY-+-r+AH4-+Bp8-'(z0'+ACE-(+ACEAfQ-y+AH4-b +AD4- +AD4APg- +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- -------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------ +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- +AF8AXwBfAF8AXwBfAF8AXwBfAF8AXwBfAF8AXwBfAF8AXwBfAF8AXwBfAF8AXwBfAF8AXwBfAF8AXwBfAF8AXwBfAF8AXwBfAF8AXwBfAF8AXwBfAF8AXwBfAF8AXw- +AD4- +AD4- Mipshop mailing list +AD4- +AD4- Mipshop+AEA-ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mipshop +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- Disclaimer: The contents of this e-mail, and its attachments, if any, are confidential and may be protected by law against any unauthorized use. If you have received this e-mail by mistake or have reason to believe that you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender by reply e-mail as soon as possible and delete it from your computer system immediately thereafter. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not copy this e-mail or attachment or disclose the contents to any other person. While we have made every effort to keep our network virus free, we take no responsibility for any computer virus which might be transferred by way of this e-mail. _______________________________________________ Mobopts mailing list Mobopts@irtf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mobopts From mobopts-bounces@irtf.org Wed Nov 23 07:05:22 2005 Received: from localhost.cnri.reston.va.us ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EetNK-0001m4-DH; Wed, 23 Nov 2005 07:05:22 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EetNI-0001jK-7j for mobopts@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 23 Nov 2005 07:05:20 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA20050 for ; Wed, 23 Nov 2005 07:04:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from p-mail2.rd.francetelecom.com ([195.101.245.16]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Eetg8-0004fQ-5X for mobopts@irtf.org; Wed, 23 Nov 2005 07:24:49 -0500 Received: from ftrdmel3.rd.francetelecom.fr ([10.193.117.155]) by ftrdsmtp1.rd.francetelecom.fr with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Wed, 23 Nov 2005 13:04:52 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: RE: [Mipshop] AW: [Mobopts] Presentation slides for "CXTP using GIST" Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 13:04:45 +0100 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [Mipshop] AW: [Mobopts] Presentation slides for "CXTP using GIST" Thread-Index: AcXvh/7MgnlukinhSQeMN0Pos5ir/gAnU2gQ From: "COMBES Jean-Michel RD-MAPS-ISS" To: "James Kempf" , "Tschofenig, Hannes" , "DENG, HUI -HCHBJ" , "Xiaoming Fu" , , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Nov 2005 12:04:52.0826 (UTC) FILETIME=[1C8B93A0:01C5F026] X-Spam-Score: 2.4 (++) X-Scan-Signature: cd26b070c2577ac175cd3a6d878c6248 Cc: Xiaoming Fu X-BeenThere: mobopts@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IP Mobility Optimizations 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([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Eex8v-0006QN-Hn for mobopts@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 23 Nov 2005 11:06:48 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA20100 for ; Wed, 23 Nov 2005 11:06:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from key1.docomolabs-usa.com ([216.98.102.225] helo=fridge.docomolabs-usa.com ident=fwuser) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EexRk-0002GJ-So for mobopts@irtf.org; Wed, 23 Nov 2005 11:26:14 -0500 Message-ID: <02fa01c5f047$ddcb7550$4f6115ac@dcml.docomolabsusa.com> From: "James Kempf" To: "COMBES Jean-Michel RD-MAPS-ISS" , "Tschofenig, Hannes" , "DENG, HUI -HCHBJ" , "Xiaoming Fu" , , References: Subject: Re: [Mipshop] AW: [Mobopts] Presentation slides for "CXTP using GIST" Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 08:06:30 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="utf-8"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 2.4 (++) X-Scan-Signature: bf422c85703d3d847fb014987125ac48 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: Xiaoming Fu X-BeenThere: mobopts@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IP Mobility Optimizations List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mobopts-bounces@irtf.org Errors-To: mobopts-bounces@irtf.org Section 4: Prevent the Domino effect Compromise of a single peer MUST NOT compromise keying material held by any other peer within the system, including session keys and long-term keys. Likewise, compromise of a single authenticator MUST NOT compromise keying material held by any other authenticator within the system. In the context of a key hierarchy, this means that the compromise of one node in the key hierarchy must not disclose the information necessary to compromise other branches in the key hierarchy. There are many implications of this requirement; however, two implications deserve highlighting. First, the scope of the keying material must be defined and understood by all parties that communicate with a party that holds that keying material. Second, a party that holds keying material in a key hierarchy must not share that keying material with parties that are associated with other branches in the key hierarchy. If keys are propagagted by context transfer, compromise of one router/AP=20 causes compromise of all. jak ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "COMBES Jean-Michel RD-MAPS-ISS" To: "James Kempf" ; "Tschofenig, Hannes"=20 ; "DENG, HUI -HCHBJ" ;=20 "Xiaoming Fu" ; ;=20 Cc: "Xiaoming Fu" Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 4:04 AM Subject: RE: [Mipshop] AW: [Mobopts] Presentation slides for "CXTP using=20 GIST" > Hi, > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: mipshop-bounces@ietf.org >> [mailto:mipshop-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of James Kempf >> Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 6:04 PM >> To: Tschofenig, Hannes; DENG, HUI -HCHBJ; Xiaoming Fu; >> mobopts@irtf.org; mipshop@ietf.org >> Cc: Xiaoming Fu >> Subject: Re: [Mipshop] AW: [Mobopts] Presentation slides for >> "CXTP using GIST" >> >> IPsec context is pretty much out, unless what is exchanged >> does not involve the shared key. So is any AAA context that >> involves a shared key. Please see >> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-housley-aaa-key-mgmt >> -01.txt for a discussion of why propagating shared keys in >> this manner is not secure. > > BTW, IMHO, there are no clear reasons/arguments, about why propagating=20 > shared keys in this manner is not secure, in this draft .... > >> The draft talks specifically about >> AAA-derived keys, but could as well be applied to IPsec derived keys. >> >> jak > > Cheers. > > JMC. > > France Telecom - R&D Division - MAPS/NSS > Jean-Michel COMBES, Internet/Intranet Security > E-Mail: jeanmichel.combes@francetelecom.com > Phone: +33 (0)1 45 29 45 94 > Fax: +33 (0)1 45 29 65 19 > Mobile: +33 (0)6 07 29 30 16 > >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Tschofenig, Hannes" >> To: "DENG, HUI -HCHBJ" ; "Xiaoming Fu" >> ; ; >> Cc: "Xiaoming Fu" >> Sent: Monday, November 21, 2005 5:23 AM >> Subject: [Mipshop] AW: [Mobopts] Presentation slides for >> "CXTP using GIST" >> >> >> > hi hui >> > >> > there are two issues to discuss: >> > >> > a) which security mechanisms you use for protection of the context >> > transfer between the old ar and the new ar. >> > >> > b) which context you transfer between these devices. >> > >> > i could not remember xiaoming and john proposing to >> transfer ipsec sas as >> > part of (b). if you would like to transfer ipsec sas then the past >> > investigations in, for example, >> or >> > might be >> worth taking a >> > look. >> > >> > ciao >> > hannes >> > >> >> -----Urspr=C3=BCngliche Nachricht----- >> >> Von: mobopts-bounces@irtf.org >> >> [mailto:mobopts-bounces@irtf.org] Im Auftrag von DENG, HUI -HCHBJ >> >> Gesendet: Montag, 21. November 2005 14:05 >> >> An: Xiaoming Fu; mobopts@irtf.org; mipshop@ietf.org >> >> Cc: John Loughney; Xiaoming Fu >> >> Betreff: RE: [Mobopts] Presentation slides for "CXTP using GIST" >> >> >> >> Hi, Xiaoming >> >> >> >> I am still wondering how could you handle IPsec SA transfer, >> >> expecially initialize vector and anti-replay window. >> >> >> >> Thanks >> >> >> >> -Hui >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message-----=20 >> >> From: Xiaoming Fu [mailto:fu@cs.uni-goettingen.de] >> >> Sent: 2005-11-20 (=E6=98=9F=E6=9C=9F=E6=97=A5) 3:10 >> >> To: mobopts@irtf.org; mipshop@ietf.org >> >> Cc: John Loughney; Xiaoming Fu >> >> Subject: [Mobopts] Presentation slides for "CXTP using GIST" >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Hi all, >> >> >> >> Due to time limitation, mostly the Q&As in response to >> >> some reviewers' >> >> comments were discussed in the MOBOPTS RG meeting. For >> >> anyone interested >> >> in this draft, the slides are available in the following link: >> >> >> >> http://user.informatik.uni-goettingen.de/~fu/temp/cxtpgist/CXT >> > PusingGIST_IETF64.ppt >> >> >> >> Please drop me/us a message if you think it may be >> >> useful, or any >> >> (additional) comments/suggestions you might have. >> >> >> >> Cheers, >> >> Xiaoming >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Mobopts mailing list >> >> Mobopts@irtf.org >> >> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mobopts >> >> >> >> =0E+=1Czy'=ED=B2=87+=1Ejwb=C6=AD!'=DA=9F&y'~'^=D8=9A=DD=99z-y=1A=D6= =A7=DA=BAh,v=1E!=16zz+vb=E9=9A=8AV+-jG=16z=ED=A1=B7=DE=B6=16=CA=8B^{^=D7=9D= "'^j=C7=A7 >> >> >> =D8=9F^ze=E9=9A=8AV'jh=C8=9Bu=D7=A5z=D7=A2*.&^=CC=AC=E9=A2=9Ag^+az~=D7= =AB!=DE=9Em=E8=A7=B5yr*bz{r=E9=AE=B2)b=E9=9A=8AZ+jZr=19+v+=1C=1E=17{^-^=D6= =86)^Zuz}+$yh=DE=B7 >> >> +y=1E=1E=DE=B2'&+r~=DA=9F'(z0'!(!}y~b >> >> >> > >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------- >> ------------------ >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Mipshop mailing list >> > Mipshop@ietf.org >> > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mipshop >> > >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Mipshop mailing list >> Mipshop@ietf.org >> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mipshop >> >=20 _______________________________________________ Mobopts mailing list Mobopts@irtf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mobopts From mobopts-bounces@irtf.org Wed Nov 23 11:19:49 2005 Received: from localhost.cnri.reston.va.us ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EexLZ-0006YE-6c; Wed, 23 Nov 2005 11:19:49 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EexLX-0006Tn-6r for mobopts@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 23 Nov 2005 11:19:47 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA21803 for ; Wed, 23 Nov 2005 11:19:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from p-mail2.rd.francetelecom.com ([195.101.245.16]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EexeP-0003Cw-OZ for mobopts@irtf.org; Wed, 23 Nov 2005 11:39:18 -0500 Received: from ftrdmel3.rd.francetelecom.fr ([10.193.117.155]) by ftrdsmtp2.rd.francetelecom.fr with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Wed, 23 Nov 2005 17:19:36 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: RE: [Mipshop] AW: [Mobopts] Presentation slides for "CXTP using GIST" Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 17:19:31 +0100 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [Mipshop] AW: [Mobopts] Presentation slides for "CXTP using GIST" Thread-Index: AcXwR9+Bmh83+3XOSnqEcABb3PlktAAAGNeg From: "COMBES Jean-Michel RD-MAPS-ISS" To: "James Kempf" , "Tschofenig, Hannes" , "DENG, HUI -HCHBJ" , "Xiaoming Fu" , , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Nov 2005 16:19:36.0813 (UTC) FILETIME=[B282E9D0:01C5F049] X-Spam-Score: 2.4 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 8fbbaa16f9fd29df280814cb95ae2290 Cc: Xiaoming Fu X-BeenThere: mobopts@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IP Mobility Optimizations List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1571747641==" Sender: mobopts-bounces@irtf.org Errors-To: mobopts-bounces@irtf.org --===============1571747641== Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGksDQoNCldoYXQgYXJlIHRoZSByZWFzb25zIG9mIHN1Y2ggYSBjb21wcm9taXNlPw0KDQpDaGVl cnMuDQoNCkpNQy4NCg0KRnJhbmNlIFRlbGVjb20gLSBSJkQgRGl2aXNpb24gLSBNQVBTL05TUyAg IA0KSmVhbi1NaWNoZWwgQ09NQkVTLCBJbnRlcm5ldC9JbnRyYW5ldCBTZWN1cml0eQ0KRS1NYWls OiBqZWFubWljaGVsLmNvbWJlc0BmcmFuY2V0ZWxlY29tLmNvbQ0KUGhvbmU6ICszMyAoMCkxIDQ1 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https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mobopts --===============1571747641==-- From mobopts-bounces@irtf.org Wed Nov 23 11:30:59 2005 Received: from localhost.cnri.reston.va.us ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EexWN-0005BB-Fl; Wed, 23 Nov 2005 11:30:59 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EexWK-00059k-FS for mobopts@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 23 Nov 2005 11:30:56 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA23071 for ; Wed, 23 Nov 2005 11:30:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from key1.docomolabs-usa.com ([216.98.102.225] helo=fridge.docomolabs-usa.com ident=fwuser) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EexpD-0003qt-7O for mobopts@irtf.org; Wed, 23 Nov 2005 11:50:28 -0500 Message-ID: <001001c5f04b$45406a30$4f6115ac@dcml.docomolabsusa.com> From: "James Kempf" To: "COMBES Jean-Michel RD-MAPS-ISS" , "Tschofenig, Hannes" , "DENG, HUI -HCHBJ" , "Xiaoming Fu" , , References: Subject: Re: [Mipshop] AW: [Mobopts] Presentation slides for "CXTP using GIST" Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 08:30:52 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="utf-8"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 2.4 (++) X-Scan-Signature: cdeeb24e6b743a852c396a4af0e53c8f Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: Xiaoming Fu X-BeenThere: mobopts@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IP Mobility Optimizations List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mobopts-bounces@irtf.org Errors-To: mobopts-bounces@irtf.org I am not sure I understand the question. If you mean "why would an attack= er=20 want to compromise a network in this manner", I must confess I am not an=20 expert on the criminal mind, so I can't really answer the question. If yo= u=20 mean "how would an attacker accomplish such a compromise", it would requi= re=20 either that the network operator is negligent, or possibly as an inside j= ob. jak ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "COMBES Jean-Michel RD-MAPS-ISS" To: "James Kempf" ; "Tschofenig, Hannes"=20 ; "DENG, HUI -HCHBJ" ;=20 "Xiaoming Fu" ; ;=20 Cc: "Xiaoming Fu" Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 8:19 AM Subject: RE: [Mipshop] AW: [Mobopts] Presentation slides for "CXTP using=20 GIST" > Hi, > > What are the reasons of such a compromise? > > Cheers. > > JMC. > > France Telecom - R&D Division - MAPS/NSS > Jean-Michel COMBES, Internet/Intranet Security > E-Mail: jeanmichel.combes@francetelecom.com > Phone: +33 (0)1 45 29 45 94 > Fax: +33 (0)1 45 29 65 19 > Mobile: +33 (0)6 07 29 30 16 > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: James Kempf [mailto:Kempf@docomolabs-usa.com] >> Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 5:07 PM >> To: COMBES Jean-Michel RD-MAPS-ISS; Tschofenig, Hannes; DENG, >> HUI -HCHBJ; Xiaoming Fu; mobopts@irtf.org; mipshop@ietf.org >> Cc: Xiaoming Fu >> Subject: Re: [Mipshop] AW: [Mobopts] Presentation slides for >> "CXTP using GIST" >> >> Section 4: >> >> Prevent the Domino effect >> >> Compromise of a single peer MUST NOT compromise >> keying material >> held by any other peer within the system, including session >> keys and long-term keys. Likewise, compromise of a single >> authenticator MUST NOT compromise keying material held by any >> other authenticator within the system. In the >> context of a key >> hierarchy, this means that the compromise of one node in the >> key hierarchy must not disclose the information necessary to >> compromise other branches in the key hierarchy. >> There are many >> implications of this requirement; however, two implications >> deserve highlighting. First, the scope of the >> keying material >> must be defined and understood by all parties that >> communicate >> with a party that holds that keying material. >> Second, a party >> that holds keying material in a key hierarchy must not share >> that keying material with parties that are associated with >> other branches in the key hierarchy. >> >> If keys are propagagted by context transfer, compromise of >> one router/AP causes compromise of all. >> >> jak >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "COMBES Jean-Michel RD-MAPS-ISS" >> >> To: "James Kempf" ; "Tschofenig, Hannes" >> ; "DENG, HUI -HCHBJ" >> ; "Xiaoming Fu" ; >> ; >> Cc: "Xiaoming Fu" >> Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 4:04 AM >> Subject: RE: [Mipshop] AW: [Mobopts] Presentation slides for >> "CXTP using GIST" >> >> >> > Hi, >> > >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: mipshop-bounces@ietf.org >> >> [mailto:mipshop-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of James Kempf >> >> Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 6:04 PM >> >> To: Tschofenig, Hannes; DENG, HUI -HCHBJ; Xiaoming Fu; >> >> mobopts@irtf.org; mipshop@ietf.org >> >> Cc: Xiaoming Fu >> >> Subject: Re: [Mipshop] AW: [Mobopts] Presentation slides for "CXTP >> >> using GIST" >> >> >> >> IPsec context is pretty much out, unless what is exchanged >> does not >> >> involve the shared key. So is any AAA context that >> involves a shared >> >> key. Please see >> >> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-housley-aaa-key-mgmt >> >> -01.txt for a discussion of why propagating shared keys in this >> >> manner is not secure. >> > >> > BTW, IMHO, there are no clear reasons/arguments, about why >> propagating >> > shared keys in this manner is not secure, in this draft .... >> > >> >> The draft talks specifically about >> >> AAA-derived keys, but could as well be applied to IPsec >> derived keys. >> >> >> >> jak >> > >> > Cheers. >> > >> > JMC. >> > >> > France Telecom - R&D Division - MAPS/NSS Jean-Michel COMBES, >> > Internet/Intranet Security >> > E-Mail: jeanmichel.combes@francetelecom.com >> > Phone: +33 (0)1 45 29 45 94 >> > Fax: +33 (0)1 45 29 65 19 >> > Mobile: +33 (0)6 07 29 30 16 >> > >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: "Tschofenig, Hannes" >> >> To: "DENG, HUI -HCHBJ" ; "Xiaoming Fu" >> >> ; ; >> >> Cc: "Xiaoming Fu" >> >> Sent: Monday, November 21, 2005 5:23 AM >> >> Subject: [Mipshop] AW: [Mobopts] Presentation slides for >> "CXTP using >> >> GIST" >> >> >> >> >> >> > hi hui >> >> > >> >> > there are two issues to discuss: >> >> > >> >> > a) which security mechanisms you use for protection of >> the context >> >> > transfer between the old ar and the new ar. >> >> > >> >> > b) which context you transfer between these devices. >> >> > >> >> > i could not remember xiaoming and john proposing to >> >> transfer ipsec sas as >> >> > part of (b). if you would like to transfer ipsec sas >> then the past >> >> > investigations in, for example, >> >> or >> >> > might be >> >> worth taking a >> >> > look. >> >> > >> >> > ciao >> >> > hannes >> >> > >> >> >> -----Urspr=C3=BCngliche Nachricht----- >> >> >> Von: mobopts-bounces@irtf.org >> >> >> [mailto:mobopts-bounces@irtf.org] Im Auftrag von DENG, >> HUI -HCHBJ >> >> >> Gesendet: Montag, 21. November 2005 14:05 >> >> >> An: Xiaoming Fu; mobopts@irtf.org; mipshop@ietf.org >> >> >> Cc: John Loughney; Xiaoming Fu >> >> >> Betreff: RE: [Mobopts] Presentation slides for "CXTP using GIST" >> >> >> >> >> >> Hi, Xiaoming >> >> >> >> >> >> I am still wondering how could you handle IPsec SA transfer, >> >> >> expecially initialize vector and anti-replay window. >> >> >> >> >> >> Thanks >> >> >> >> >> >> -Hui >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> >> From: Xiaoming Fu [mailto:fu@cs.uni-goettingen.de] >> >> >> Sent: 2005-11-20 (=E6=98=9F=E6=9C=9F=E6=97=A5) 3:10 >> >> >> To: mobopts@irtf.org; mipshop@ietf.org >> >> >> Cc: John Loughney; Xiaoming Fu >> >> >> Subject: [Mobopts] Presentation slides for "CXTP using GIST" >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Hi all, >> >> >> >> >> >> Due to time limitation, mostly the Q&As in response to some >> >> >> reviewers' >> >> >> comments were discussed in the MOBOPTS RG meeting. For anyone >> >> >> interested in this draft, the slides are available in the >> >> >> following link: >> >> >> >> >> >> http://user.informatik.uni-goettingen.de/~fu/temp/cxtpgist/CXT >> >> > PusingGIST_IETF64.ppt >> >> >> >> >> >> Please drop me/us a message if you think it may be >> useful, or any >> >> >> (additional) comments/suggestions you might have. >> >> >> >> >> >> Cheers, >> >> >> Xiaoming >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> >> Mobopts mailing list >> >> >> Mobopts@irtf.org >> >> >> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mobopts >> >> >> >> >> >> =0E+=1Czy'=ED=B2=87+=1Ejwb=C6=AD!'=DA=9F&y'~'^=D8=9A=DD=99z-y=1A= =D6=A7=DA=BAh,v=1E!=16zz+vb=E9=9A=8AV+-jG=16z=ED=A1=B7=DE=B6=16=CA=8B^{^=D7= =9D"'^j=C7=A7 >> >> >> >> >> >> =D8=9F^ze=E9=9A=8AV'jh=C8=9Bu=D7=A5z=D7=A2*.&^=CC=AC=E9=A2=9Ag^+az~=D7= =AB!=DE=9Em=E8=A7=B5yr*bz{r=E9=AE=B2)b=E9=9A=8AZ+jZr=19+v+=1C=1E=17{^-^=D6= =86)^Zuz}+$yh >> >> =DE=B7 >> >> >> +y=1E=1E=DE=B2'&+r~=DA=9F'(z0'!(!}y~b >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> ------------------ >> >> >> >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> >> > Mipshop mailing list >> >> > Mipshop@ietf.org >> >> > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mipshop >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Mipshop mailing list >> >> Mipshop@ietf.org >> >> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mipshop >> >> >> > >> >> >> >=20 _______________________________________________ Mobopts mailing list Mobopts@irtf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mobopts From mobopts-bounces@irtf.org Wed Nov 23 11:59:59 2005 Received: from localhost.cnri.reston.va.us ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EexyR-00085i-E2; Wed, 23 Nov 2005 11:59:59 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EexyQ-000853-29 for mobopts@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 23 Nov 2005 11:59:58 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA26646 for ; Wed, 23 Nov 2005 11:59:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from p-mail1.rd.francetelecom.com ([195.101.245.15]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EeyHJ-0005fv-A4 for mobopts@irtf.org; Wed, 23 Nov 2005 12:19:29 -0500 Received: from ftrdmel3.rd.francetelecom.fr ([10.193.117.155]) by ftrdsmtp2.rd.francetelecom.fr with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Wed, 23 Nov 2005 17:59:51 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: RE: [Mipshop] AW: [Mobopts] Presentation slides for "CXTP using GIST" Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 17:59:24 +0100 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [Mipshop] AW: [Mobopts] Presentation slides for "CXTP using GIST" Thread-Index: AcXwS0cZfN4tR1kkQIu3uqmNHTtWzgAAPJHw From: "COMBES Jean-Michel RD-MAPS-ISS" To: "James Kempf" , 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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Mobopts mailing list Mobopts@irtf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mobopts --===============1457587437==-- From mobopts-bounces@irtf.org Wed Nov 23 12:05:58 2005 Received: from localhost.cnri.reston.va.us ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Eey4E-0000i4-Kt; Wed, 23 Nov 2005 12:05:58 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Eey4D-0000hV-8T for mobopts@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 23 Nov 2005 12:05:57 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA27552 for ; Wed, 23 Nov 2005 12:05:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from key1.docomolabs-usa.com ([216.98.102.225] helo=fridge.docomolabs-usa.com ident=fwuser) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EeyN6-00065M-5K for mobopts@irtf.org; Wed, 23 Nov 2005 12:25:28 -0500 Message-ID: <005c01c5f050$2a3f7960$4f6115ac@dcml.docomolabsusa.com> From: "James Kempf" To: "COMBES Jean-Michel RD-MAPS-ISS" , "Tschofenig, Hannes" , "DENG, HUI -HCHBJ" , "Xiaoming Fu" , , References: Subject: Re: [Mipshop] AW: [Mobopts] Presentation slides for "CXTP using GIST" Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 09:05:54 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="utf-8"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 2.4 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 2409bba43e9c8d580670fda8b695204a Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Xiaoming Fu X-BeenThere: mobopts@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IP Mobility Optimizations List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mobopts-bounces@irtf.org Errors-To: mobopts-bounces@irtf.org > As you know, when an operator deploys a technology, most of the time, he > uses products from one or two manufacturers. So if one product is > compromised, all the entities from the same product can be or are > comprised. > In the same case, if this is human-based compromise, most of the time, if > this guy can access to one entity, he can access to all the entities of > the same administrative domain. > On the other side, Context Transfer only occurs in a same administrative > domain (cf. CXTP requirements). > Well, just taking a stab at this, I don't think it really has much to do with bugs in a product. Even if the product is completely bug-free and the operator's network management processes are spotless, there is still the factor of human nature. A trusted employee might wake up on the wrong side of bed one day and decide to play some tricks. > So I don't see what is the danger to set up a rule saying "No CXTP for > security". But maybe I am wrong and would be happy to know why :) > Perhaps you can send email to Russ and Bernard? They might be able to do a better job of explaining it that I can. jak _______________________________________________ Mobopts mailing list Mobopts@irtf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mobopts From mobopts-bounces@irtf.org Thu Nov 24 07:39:59 2005 Received: from localhost.cnri.reston.va.us ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EfGON-0006DM-5x; Thu, 24 Nov 2005 07:39:59 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EfGOD-000669-5D; Thu, 24 Nov 2005 07:39:57 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA24692; Thu, 24 Nov 2005 07:39:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from gecko.sbs.de ([194.138.37.40]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EfGhG-0003Kl-HQ; Thu, 24 Nov 2005 07:59:31 -0500 Received: from mail2.sbs.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gecko.sbs.de (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id jAOCdLAd007037; Thu, 24 Nov 2005 13:39:21 +0100 Received: from fthw9xoa.ww002.siemens.net (fthw9xoa.ww002.siemens.net [157.163.133.201]) by mail2.sbs.de (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id jAOCd3u1014067; Thu, 24 Nov 2005 13:39:03 +0100 Received: from MCHP7IEA.ww002.siemens.net ([139.25.131.146]) by fthw9xoa.ww002.siemens.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Thu, 24 Nov 2005 13:39:03 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: AW: [Mobopts] RE: [Mipshop] AW: [Mobopts] Presentationslides for "CXTP using GIST" Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 13:38:54 +0100 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [Mobopts] RE: [Mipshop] AW: [Mobopts] Presentationslides for "CXTP using GIST" Thread-Index: AcXvhs8CFXJ9ZCqdTOCr2nA8jLChPAAbPOEQADskdxA= From: "Tschofenig, Hannes" To: "DENG, HUI -HCHBJ" , "James Kempf" , "Xiaoming Fu" , , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Nov 2005 12:39:03.0172 (UTC) FILETIME=[0D0F4C40:01C5F0F4] X-Spam-Score: 2.4 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 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2005 08:03:17 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EfGkr-0007tC-5E for mobopts@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 24 Nov 2005 08:03:15 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA26995 for ; Thu, 24 Nov 2005 08:02:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from p130.piuha.net ([193.234.218.130]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EfH3u-0004OZ-HH for mobopts@irtf.org; Thu, 24 Nov 2005 08:22:55 -0500 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 222B989863; Thu, 24 Nov 2005 15:02:46 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <4385B9D9.30403@kolumbus.fi> Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 15:02:17 +0200 From: Jari Arkko User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (X11/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: James Kempf Subject: Re: [Mipshop] AW: [Mobopts] Presentation slides for "CXTP using GIST" References: <001001c5f04b$45406a30$4f6115ac@dcml.docomolabsusa.com> In-Reply-To: <001001c5f04b$45406a30$4f6115ac@dcml.docomolabsusa.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 2.4 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 9466e0365fc95844abaf7c3f15a05c7d Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: mipshop@ietf.org, "Tschofenig, Hannes" , Xiaoming Fu , mobopts@irtf.org X-BeenThere: mobopts@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IP Mobility Optimizations List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mobopts-bounces@irtf.org Errors-To: mobopts-bounces@irtf.org James Kempf wrote: > I am not sure I understand the question. If you mean "why would an > attacker want to compromise a network in this manner", I must confess > I am not an expert on the criminal mind, so I can't really answer the > question. If you mean "how would an attacker accomplish such a > compromise", it would require either that the network operator is > negligent, or possibly as an inside job. If I may offer an interpretation of the housley criteria, I believe "compromise of a node" is, for instance, someone grabbing an access point or a router from a coffee shop wall. At the time people were just doing central office products or cellular networks with large cell size with relatively good physical security the domino effect was not an issue. It is now, in the world where a lot of the equipment is out there in the field. To give you an example of the kind of things that would be undesirable, lets assume that a context transfer protocol that allows a router/access node to request the context from other devices in the network. Now, a compromise of *one* such device would allow the attacker to retrieve any or all contexts from the entire network. This would be bad. --Jari _______________________________________________ Mobopts mailing list Mobopts@irtf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mobopts From mobopts-bounces@irtf.org Thu Nov 24 09:26:29 2005 Received: from localhost.cnri.reston.va.us ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EfI3R-0006Pq-6B; Thu, 24 Nov 2005 09:26:29 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EfI3P-0006PH-6S for mobopts@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 24 Nov 2005 09:26:27 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA06392 for ; Thu, 24 Nov 2005 09:25:46 -0500 (EST) Received: from s2.ifi.informatik.uni-goettingen.de ([134.76.81.12]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EfIMU-0007ys-2d for mobopts@irtf.org; Thu, 24 Nov 2005 09:46:10 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by s2.ifi.informatik.uni-goettingen.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E2811024F; Thu, 24 Nov 2005 15:26:23 +0100 (CET) Received: from [172.22.0.51] (tmg51.tmg.loc [172.22.0.51]) by s2.ifi.informatik.uni-goettingen.de (Postfix) with ESMTP; Thu, 24 Nov 2005 15:26:21 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <4385CD8C.6010800@cs.uni-goettingen.de> Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 15:26:20 +0100 From: Xiaoming Fu User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Alper Yegin References: <08dd01c5f101$373998b0$0302a8c0@Alperyegin> In-Reply-To: <08dd01c5f101$373998b0$0302a8c0@Alperyegin> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at informatik.uni-goettingen.de X-Spam-Score: 2.4 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 8abaac9e10c826e8252866cbe6766464 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: mipshop@ietf.org, mobopts@irtf.org Subject: [Mobopts] Re: Presentation slides for "CXTP using GIST" X-BeenThere: mobopts@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IP Mobility Optimizations List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mobopts-bounces@irtf.org Errors-To: mobopts-bounces@irtf.org I would second Alper's analysis. One way of doing such CT authorization was discussed in http://www.tmg.informatik.uni-goettingen.de/publications/1132/ICON04_IDKE.pdf Xiaoming Alper Yegin wrote: > > >>To give you an example of the kind of things that >>would be undesirable, lets assume that a context >>transfer protocol that allows a router/access node >>to request the context from other devices in the >>network. Now, a compromise of *one* such device >>would allow the attacker to retrieve any or all >>contexts from the entire network. This would be >>bad. > > > I think this is one way of using CT, and the result is bad, I agree. But > there are many different ways of using CT, each have different security > implications, threat-wise... For example, the above scenario can be > improved by requiring the mobile to be part of the CT (e.g., generating > a token of CT authorization). That way, the compromised node cannot > assume the authority to pull any state from any other node. > > I agree that unless designed with care, a CT-based solution can be > dangerous. But I think we should do more analysis before we declare the > death of CT :-) > > Alper > > _______________________________________________ Mobopts mailing list Mobopts@irtf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mobopts From mobopts-bounces@irtf.org Thu Nov 24 11:57:01 2005 Received: from localhost.cnri.reston.va.us ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EfKP7-0007WL-0u; Thu, 24 Nov 2005 11:57:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EfKP5-0007Vh-4v for mobopts@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 24 Nov 2005 11:56:59 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA27502 for ; Thu, 24 Nov 2005 11:56:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from p130.piuha.net ([193.234.218.130]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EfKiA-0006ld-12 for mobopts@irtf.org; Thu, 24 Nov 2005 12:16:43 -0500 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (p130.piuha.net [193.234.218.130]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7863089863; Thu, 24 Nov 2005 18:56:45 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <4385F0B0.6000405@kolumbus.fi> Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 18:56:16 +0200 From: Jari Arkko User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (X11/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Alper Yegin Subject: Re: [Mipshop] AW: [Mobopts] Presentation slides for "CXTP using GIST" References: <08dd01c5f101$373998b0$0302a8c0@Alperyegin> In-Reply-To: <08dd01c5f101$373998b0$0302a8c0@Alperyegin> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 2.4 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 68c8cc8a64a9d0402e43b8eee9fc4199 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: mipshop@ietf.org, mobopts@irtf.org X-BeenThere: mobopts@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IP Mobility Optimizations List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mobopts-bounces@irtf.org Errors-To: mobopts-bounces@irtf.org Alper Yegin wrote: >But I think we should do more analysis before we declare the >death of CT :-) > > Sure. I just gave you an example you want to avoid; did not mean to imply that there was no other possible design choices. There are. --Jari _______________________________________________ Mobopts mailing list Mobopts@irtf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mobopts From mobopts-bounces@irtf.org Mon Nov 28 14:09:26 2005 Received: from localhost.cnri.reston.va.us ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EgoNS-0001wJ-Px; Mon, 28 Nov 2005 14:09:26 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EgoNR-0001w4-HQ for mobopts@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 28 Nov 2005 14:09:25 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA21579 for ; Mon, 28 Nov 2005 14:08:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from key1.docomolabs-usa.com ([216.98.102.225] helo=fridge.docomolabs-usa.com ident=fwuser) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EgohK-0002ke-1z for mobopts@irtf.org; Mon, 28 Nov 2005 14:29:59 -0500 Message-ID: <01c101c5f44f$38363ec0$4f6115ac@dcml.docomolabsusa.com> From: "James Kempf" To: "Alper Yegin" , , References: <08dd01c5f101$373998b0$0302a8c0@Alperyegin> Subject: Relevance of Housley Critera to Context Transfer of Keys (was:Re: [Mipshop] AW: [Mobopts] Presentation slides for "CXTP using GIST") Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 11:09:13 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 2.4 (++) X-Scan-Signature: b4a0a5f5992e2a4954405484e7717d8c Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: X-BeenThere: mobopts@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IP Mobility Optimizations List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mobopts-bounces@irtf.org Errors-To: mobopts-bounces@irtf.org One issue that has puzzled me is whether limiting the lifetime of a context-transferred key would violate the Housely Criteria? Suppose that the PSK transferred from one access router to another was limited to, say, one minute lifetime, during which time the mobile node needed to negotiate a new key or it would be cut off. If the old router was compromised, this really wouldn't give the attacker an advantage beyond the one minute lifetime of the key, and the advantage would only extend the advantage the attacker had on the old router. If the new router was compromised, then any key negotiated by the mobile node would be compromised regardless. In any case, the compromise would not propagate any further than the existing router, provided the key computation is done in a way such that future keys are computed with sufficient entropy to make them independent of past ones. There is also, of course, the issue of security on the transport between the access routers, but even then it seems like the window of vulnerability is limited to whatever lifetime is enforced by the new router on the transferred key. In any event, 802.11r doesn't seem to be looking at context transfer at all, so key context transfer may be a dead issue as far as relevant standards go. Anybody have any thoughts on this? jak ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alper Yegin" To: ; Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2005 6:13 AM Subject: RE: [Mipshop] AW: [Mobopts] Presentation slides for "CXTP using GIST" > >> To give you an example of the kind of things that >> would be undesirable, lets assume that a context >> transfer protocol that allows a router/access node >> to request the context from other devices in the >> network. Now, a compromise of *one* such device >> would allow the attacker to retrieve any or all >> contexts from the entire network. This would be >> bad. > > I think this is one way of using CT, and the result is bad, I agree. But > there are many different ways of using CT, each have different security > implications, threat-wise... For example, the above scenario can be > improved by requiring the mobile to be part of the CT (e.g., generating > a token of CT authorization). That way, the compromised node cannot > assume the authority to pull any state from any other node. > > I agree that unless designed with care, a CT-based solution can be > dangerous. But I think we should do more analysis before we declare the > death of CT :-) > > Alper > > > > _______________________________________________ > Mipshop mailing list > Mipshop@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mipshop > _______________________________________________ Mobopts mailing list Mobopts@irtf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mobopts From mobopts-bounces@irtf.org Mon Nov 28 19:36:45 2005 Received: from localhost.cnri.reston.va.us ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EgtUD-0001X2-Lq; Mon, 28 Nov 2005 19:36:45 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1EgtUC-0001W4-C9 for mobopts@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 28 Nov 2005 19:36:44 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA15922 for ; Mon, 28 Nov 2005 19:36:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from darkstar.iprg.nokia.com ([205.226.5.69]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Egto9-0003c7-Mp for mobopts@irtf.org; Mon, 28 Nov 2005 19:57:23 -0500 Received: (from root@localhost) by darkstar.iprg.nokia.com (8.11.0/8.11.0-DARKSTAR) id jAT028V06238 for ; Mon, 28 Nov 2005 16:02:08 -0800 X-mProtect: <200511290002> Nokia Silicon Valley Messaging Protection Received: from mvdhcp14162.americas.nokia.com (172.18.141.62, claiming to be "[127.0.0.1]") by darkstar.iprg.nokia.com smtpdzss5HJ; Mon, 28 Nov 2005 16:02:07 PST Message-ID: <438BA286.3080202@iprg.nokia.com> Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 16:36:22 -0800 From: Rajeev Koodli User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "mobopts@irtf.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 2.4 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 68c8cc8a64a9d0402e43b8eee9fc4199 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Mobopts] Vancouver meeting presenters X-BeenThere: mobopts@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IP Mobility Optimizations List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: mobopts-bounces@irtf.org Errors-To: mobopts-bounces@irtf.org Folks, those who have not sent their presentations, please send them to me asap. Telemaco: please send youe meeting minutes. Thanks, -Rajeev _______________________________________________ Mobopts mailing list Mobopts@irtf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mobopts