Subject: [Mops] WG Review: Media OPerationS (mops)

From: The IESG <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2019 09:25:51 -0700

A new IETF WG has been proposed in the Operations and Management Area. The
IESG has not made any determination yet. The following draft charter was
submitted, and is provided for informational purposes only. Please send your
comments to the IESG mailing list ([email-masked]) by 2019-10-28.

Media OPerationS (mops)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Current status: Proposed WG

Chairs:
  Leslie Daigle <[email-masked]>

Assigned Area Director:
  Éric Vyncke <[email-masked]>

Operations and Management Area Directors:
  Warren Kumari <[email-masked]>
  Ignas Bagdonas <[email-masked]>

Technical advisors:
  Warren Kumari <[email-masked]>

Mailing list:
  Address: [email-masked]
  To subscribe: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mops
  Archive: https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/mops/

Group page: https://datatracker.ietf.org/group/mops/

Charter: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-mops/

Internet- and Internet-protocol-delivered media is widespread, leading to
significant technology development across industries not traditionally thought
of as Internet technology developers or operators, as well as considerable
quantities of traffic on local and transit networks. The focus of MOPS is on
identifying areas where existing protocols and/or networks are challenged by
these updated requirements.

MOPS will solicit input on operational issues and practices; existing and
proposed technologies related to the deployment, engineering, and operation
of media streaming and manipulation protocols and procedures in the global
Internet; and inter-domain and within-domain networking. In the context of
this working group, media is considered to include the transport of video,
audio, objects and any combination thereof, possibly non-sequentially. The
scope is media and media protocols’ interactions with the network, but not
the technologies of control protocols or media formats.

MOPS provides a venue for both video industry and Internet engineering
experts to engage in discussion of video technology’s requirements of
networking standards, as well as proposals for new uses of IP technology
in video. Where new protocols are needed, MOPS will help identify candidate
venues for their development.

The goals of MOPS include documenting existing protocol and operational issues
with media on the Internet, and identifying requirements for potential IETF
work. The general process of elaboration through documentation will be for
issues to be identified (on the mailing list) and presentations made at WG
meetings. When topics merit more coherent documentation, MOPS will adopt
working group documents to capture the information in Internet-Drafts. If the
working group consensus is that the material of the Internet-Draft is
generally useful for archival purposes, the WG will seek publication of the
work items as RFCs. At any point — from early discussion of topics, through
later documentation stages — MOPS may identify a more appropriate WG for the
matter and/or document, and dispatch it.

With that in mind, MOPS will:

1/ Solicit regular updates from other media technology developing
consortia/standards bodies working with IETF-developed protocols.

2/ Solicit input from network operators and users to identify operational
issues with media delivery in and across networks, and determine solutions or
workarounds to those issues.

3/ Solicit discussion and documentation of the issues and opportunities in
media acquisition and delivery, and of the resulting protocols and
technologies developed outside the IETF.

4/ Document operational requirements for media acquisition (for example, from
cameras and recording devices) and delivery.

5/ Develop operational information to aid in operation of media technologies
in the global Internet.

These activities should document media operational experience, including
global Internet, inter-domain and within-domain operations.

In all cases of working with other organizations mentioned above, MOPS will
work with existing liaison managers where the IETF has them, and informal
connections with other organizations otherwise. If new formal liaison
relationships are required, MOPS will work with the IAB to help establish
them.

Media operational and deployment issues with specific protocols or
technologies (such as Applications, Transport Protocols, Routing Protocols,
DNS or Sub-IP Protocols) remain the responsibility of the groups or areas
responsible for those protocols or technologies. However, the MOPS Working
Group may provide input to those areas/groups, as needed, and cooperate with
those areas/groups in reviewing solutions to MOPS operational and deployment
problems.

There must be a continuing expression of interest for the Working Group to
work on a particular work item. If there is no longer sufficient interest in
the Working Group in a work item, the item may be removed from the list of
Working Group items.

The IESG is establishing this working group on an experimental basis and
intends to review it, for rechartering to continue or else closure, in 2
years.

Milestones:

  Feb 2020 - Draft of edge network operational considerations for streaming
  media

  Feb 2020 - Initial draft operational considerations for low latency
  streaming video applications

  Mar 2020 - Draft documenting Streaming Video Alliance (SVA) reliance on
  IETF protocols

  Mar 2020 - Draft documenting Society of Motion Picture and Television
  Engineers (SMPTE) protocol reliance on IETF protocols

  Jul 2020 - Last-call document on Streaming Video Alliance (SVA) reliance on
  IETF protocols (including explicit outreach to SVA)

  Jul 2020 - Last-call document on Society of Motion Picture and Television
  Engineers (SMPTE) protocol reliance on IETF protocols (including explicit
  outreach to SMPTE)

  Jul 2020 - Revised draft of edge network operational considerations for
  streaming media

  Jul 2020 - Revised draft operational considerations for low latency
  streaming video applications

  Nov 2020 - Last-call document on edge network considerations for streaming
  media

  Nov 2020 - Last-call document on operational considerations for low latency
  streaming video applications

  Nov 2020 - Develop work items specific to media acquisition and delivery

  Nov 2021 - IESG to decide whether continue, re-charter or close MOPS WG

---

From: Spencer Dawkins at IETF <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2019 19:37:42 -0500

Dear IESG,

Chartering MOPS as an IETF working group seems to be the Right Thing To Do.
I agree with previous discussions that some topics may not be at the
engineering level, but discussions on those topics will have a launching
pad, no matter where they end up, which will be a good thing.

I'm sure everyone involved is aware of the struggles we've had to obtain
inputs and participation from operators (for longer than I've been active
at IETF). This is pushing that effort down a level (from IAB and IESG
interactions with NANOG, RIPE, and GSMA, among other places, over the past
three or four years), and I think that's a good thing as well.

I saw discussion about what gets published and what doesn't get published
outside MOPS, and I would encourage the responsible AD to be flexible as
MOPS figures that out - we have had discussions with NOGs about Best
Current Operational Practices/BCOP documents, so the possible set of
choices MOPS could consider might be broader than the usual IETF working
group.

The text in the proposed charter on liaison relationships is fine, as far
as it goes, but I hope all the MOPSters remember that the IETF cooperates
best when it and another organization have overlapping participants -
that's even more informal than "informal liaisons". The more that can be
encouraged, the better for MOPS. (Leslie will understand this very well,
from her time as IAB chair)

I hope I'm able to contribute to this working group, if it's approved by
the IESG. Thanks for moving forward on this topic.

Best wishes,

Spencer

On Fri, Oct 18, 2019 at 11:25 AM The IESG <[email-masked]> wrote:

> --
> Mops mailing list
> [email-masked]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mops
>

---

From: "Eric Vyncke (evyncke)" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2019 06:40:50 +0000

Spencer,

Thank you for your detailed reply. I can only support everything you wrote 😉

Regards

-éric

From: Mops <[email-masked]> on behalf of Spencer Dawkins at IETF <[email-masked]>
Date: Wednesday, 23 October 2019 at 02:38
To: The IESG <[email-masked]>
Cc: "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [Mops] WG Review: Media OPerationS (mops)

Dear IESG,

Chartering MOPS as an IETF working group seems to be the Right Thing To Do. I agree with previous discussions that some topics may not be at the engineering level, but discussions on those topics will have a launching pad, no matter where they end up, which will be a good thing.

I'm sure everyone involved is aware of the struggles we've had to obtain inputs and participation from operators (for longer than I've been active at IETF). This is pushing that effort down a level (from IAB and IESG interactions with NANOG, RIPE, and GSMA, among other places, over the past three or four years), and I think that's a good thing as well.

I saw discussion about what gets published and what doesn't get published outside MOPS, and I would encourage the responsible AD to be flexible as MOPS figures that out - we have had discussions with NOGs about Best Current Operational Practices/BCOP documents, so the possible set of choices MOPS could consider might be broader than the usual IETF working group.

The text in the proposed charter on liaison relationships is fine, as far as it goes, but I hope all the MOPSters remember that the IETF cooperates best when it and another organization have overlapping participants - that's even more informal than "informal liaisons". The more that can be encouraged, the better for MOPS. (Leslie will understand this very well, from her time as IAB chair)

I hope I'm able to contribute to this working group, if it's approved by the IESG. Thanks for moving forward on this topic.

Best wishes,

Spencer

On Fri, Oct 18, 2019 at 11:25 AM The IESG <[email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>> wrote:
A new IETF WG has been proposed in the Operations and Management Area. The
IESG has not made any determination yet. The following draft charter was
submitted, and is provided for informational purposes only. Please send your
comments to the IESG mailing list ([email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>) by 2019-10-28.

Media OPerationS (mops)

Chairs:
  Leslie Daigle <[email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>>

Assigned Area Director:
  Éric Vyncke <[email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>>

Operations and Management Area Directors:
  Warren Kumari <[email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>>
  Ignas Bagdonas <[email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>>

Technical advisors:
  Warren Kumari <[email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>>

Mailing list:
  Address: [email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>
  To subscribe: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mops
  Archive: https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/mops/

Milestones:

--
Mops mailing list
[email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mops

---

From: "Deen, Glenn (NBCUniversal)" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2019 16:22:44 +0000

Spencer Wrote...

     ...but I hope all the MOPSters ...

Spencer's comments are good, except for "MOPSters" - that needs to not ever become a thing.

-glenn
________________________________
From: Mops <[email-masked]> on behalf of Eric Vyncke (evyncke) <[email-masked]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2019 11:40 PM
To: Spencer Dawkins at IETF <[email-masked]>; The IESG <[email-masked]>
Cc: [email-masked] <[email-masked]>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [Mops] WG Review: Media OPerationS (mops)

Spencer,

Regards

-éric

Dear IESG,

Best wishes,

Spencer

Media OPerationS (mops)

Chairs:

Assigned Area Director:

Technical advisors:

Mailing list:
  Address: [email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>
  To subscribe: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mops<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mops__;!c3kmrbLBmhXtig!4c9DChcapw1NQaDncIac2pc7EtU5Aa4TNHWa2onCAcCRNkK-fbsC_2KPGL90wk1n$>
  Archive: https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/mops/<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/mops/__;!c3kmrbLBmhXtig!4c9DChcapw1NQaDncIac2pc7EtU5Aa4TNHWa2onCAcCRNkK-fbsC_2KPGJoIeSw3$>

Group page: https://datatracker.ietf.org/group/mops/<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/group/mops/__;!c3kmrbLBmhXtig!4c9DChcapw1NQaDncIac2pc7EtU5Aa4TNHWa2onCAcCRNkK-fbsC_2KPGH0al3Fr$>

Charter: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-mops/<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-mops/__;!c3kmrbLBmhXtig!4c9DChcapw1NQaDncIac2pc7EtU5Aa4TNHWa2onCAcCRNkK-fbsC_2KPGJM6sGXt$>

Milestones:

--
Mops mailing list
[email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mops<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mops__;!c3kmrbLBmhXtig!4c9DChcapw1NQaDncIac2pc7EtU5Aa4TNHWa2onCAcCRNkK-fbsC_2KPGL90wk1n$>

---

From: Stephan Wenger <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2019 16:29:46 +0000

Do you prefer MOPSes?  :-)
S.
(https://www.encyclopedia.com/science/encyclopedias-almanacs-transcripts-and-maps/mopses-order)

From: Mops <[email-masked]> on behalf of "Deen, Glenn (NBCUniversal)" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wednesday, October 23, 2019 at 09:28
To: "Eric Vyncke (evyncke)" <[email-masked]>, Spencer Dawkins at IETF <[email-masked]>, The IESG <[email-masked]>
Cc: "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [Mops] WG Review: Media OPerationS (mops)

Spencer Wrote...

-glenn

Spencer,

Regards

-éric

Dear IESG,

Best wishes,

Spencer

Media OPerationS (mops)

Chairs:

Assigned Area Director:

Technical advisors:

Mailing list:
  Address: [email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>
  To subscribe: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mops<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mops__;!c3kmrbLBmhXtig!4c9DChcapw1NQaDncIac2pc7EtU5Aa4TNHWa2onCAcCRNkK-fbsC_2KPGL90wk1n$>
  Archive: https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/mops/<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/mops/__;!c3kmrbLBmhXtig!4c9DChcapw1NQaDncIac2pc7EtU5Aa4TNHWa2onCAcCRNkK-fbsC_2KPGJoIeSw3$>

Group page: https://datatracker.ietf.org/group/mops/<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/datatracker.ietf.org/group/mops/__;!c3kmrbLBmhXtig!4c9DChcapw1NQaDncIac2pc7EtU5Aa4TNHWa2onCAcCRNkK-fbsC_2KPGH0al3Fr$>

Charter: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-mops/<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-mops/__;!c3kmrbLBmhXtig!4c9DChcapw1NQaDncIac2pc7EtU5Aa4TNHWa2onCAcCRNkK-fbsC_2KPGJM6sGXt$>

Milestones:

--
Mops mailing list
[email-masked]<mailto:[email-masked]>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mops<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mops__;!c3kmrbLBmhXtig!4c9DChcapw1NQaDncIac2pc7EtU5Aa4TNHWa2onCAcCRNkK-fbsC_2KPGL90wk1n$>

---

From: Joerg Ott <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2019 22:14:31 +0200

Or maybe: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mops

On 23.10.19 18:29, Stephan Wenger wrote:
> *From: *Mops <[email-masked]> on behalf of "Deen, Glenn 
> (NBCUniversal)" <[email-masked]>
> *Date: *Wednesday, October 23, 2019 at 09:28
> *To: *"Eric Vyncke (evyncke)" <[email-masked]>, Spencer Dawkins at 
> IETF <[email-masked]>, The IESG <[email-masked]>
> *Cc: *"[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>
> *Subject: *Re: [Mops] WG Review: Media OPerationS (mops)
> 
> Spencer Wrote...
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *From:*Mops <[email-masked]> on behalf of Eric Vyncke (evyncke) 
> <[email-masked]>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 22, 2019 11:40 PM
> *To:* Spencer Dawkins at IETF <[email-masked]>; The IESG 
> <[email-masked]>
> *Cc:* [email-masked] <[email-masked]>
> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] Re: [Mops] WG Review: Media OPerationS (mops)
> 
> Spencer,
> 
> *From: *Mops <[email-masked]> on behalf of Spencer Dawkins at 
> IETF <[email-masked]>
> *Date: *Wednesday, 23 October 2019 at 02:38
> *To: *The IESG <[email-masked]>
> *Cc: *"[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>
> *Subject: *Re: [Mops] WG Review: Media OPerationS (mops)
> 
> Dear IESG,
> 
> Chartering MOPS as an IETF working group seems to be the Right Thing To 
> Do. I agree with previous discussions that some topics may not be at the 
> inputs and participation from operators (for longer than I've been 
> active at IETF). This is pushing that effort down a level (from IAB and 
> IESG interactions with NANOG, RIPE, and GSMA, among other places, over 
> the past three or four years), and I think that's a good thing as well.
> 
> I saw discussion about what gets published and what doesn't get 
> published outside MOPS, and I would encourage the responsible AD to be 
> flexible as MOPS figures that out - we have had discussions with NOGs 
> about Best Current Operational Practices/BCOP documents, so the possible 
> set of choices MOPS could consider might be broader than the usual IETF 
> working group.
> 
> The text in the proposed charter on liaison relationships is fine, as 
> far as it goes, but I hope all the MOPSters remember that the IETF 
> cooperates best when it and another organization have overlapping 
> participants - that's even more informal than "informal liaisons". The 
> more that can be encouraged, the better for MOPS. (Leslie will 
> understand this very well, from her time as IAB chair)
> 
>        Éric Vyncke <[email-masked] <mailto:[email-masked]>>
> 
>        Warren Kumari <[email-masked] <mailto:[email-masked]>>
>        Ignas Bagdonas <[email-masked] <mailto:[email-masked]>>
> 
>     Technical advisors:
>        Warren Kumari <[email-masked] <mailto:[email-masked]>>
> 
>     Mailing list:
>        Address: [email-masked] <mailto:[email-masked]>
>     <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mops__;!c3kmrbLBmhXtig!4c9DChcapw1NQaDncIac2pc7EtU5Aa4TNHWa2onCAcCRNkK-fbsC_2KPGL90wk1n$>
>     <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/mops/__;!c3kmrbLBmhXtig!4c9DChcapw1NQaDncIac2pc7EtU5Aa4TNHWa2onCAcCRNkK-fbsC_2KPGJoIeSw3$>
> 
>     <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/datatracker.ietf.org/group/mops/__;!c3kmrbLBmhXtig!4c9DChcapw1NQaDncIac2pc7EtU5Aa4TNHWa2onCAcCRNkK-fbsC_2KPGH0al3Fr$>
> 
>     <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-mops/__;!c3kmrbLBmhXtig!4c9DChcapw1NQaDncIac2pc7EtU5Aa4TNHWa2onCAcCRNkK-fbsC_2KPGJM6sGXt$>
> 
>     [email-masked] <mailto:[email-masked]>
>     <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mops__;!c3kmrbLBmhXtig!4c9DChcapw1NQaDncIac2pc7EtU5Aa4TNHWa2onCAcCRNkK-fbsC_2KPGL90wk1n$>
> 
>