From morg-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jan 7 13:17:39 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: morg-archive@optimus.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-morg-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B7523A6A69; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 13:17:39 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: morg@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: morg@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FF8A28B797 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 13:17:38 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.603 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.603 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_64=0.6, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lw8aLWjcM4jk for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 13:17:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from dovecot.org (dovecot.org [82.118.211.50]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 189CC3A687C for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 13:17:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.4.192.51] (unknown [74.205.24.229]) by dovecot.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CA1816471E1; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 23:17:21 +0200 (EET) From: Timo Sirainen To: Arnt Gulbrandsen In-Reply-To: References: <20081215152700.CEA523A688D@core3.amsl.com> <1229682680.4066.61.camel@hurina> Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2009 16:17:20 -0500 Message-Id: <1231363040.24402.9.camel@timo-desktop> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.24.2 Cc: morg@ietf.org Subject: Re: [MORG] draft-gulbrandsen-imap-inthread-05 X-BeenThere: morg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Messaging Organization List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1233178684==" Sender: morg-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: morg-bounces@ietf.org --===============1233178684== Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-sha1"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-Y5YlYoRP6AlLy8Qd2wER" --=-Y5YlYoRP6AlLy8Qd2wER Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I guess I should still answer this..: On Sat, 2008-12-20 at 10:06 +0100, Arnt Gulbrandsen wrote: > Timo Sirainen writes: > > 1) I'd rather have it sort by the most recent INTERNALDATE rather than=20 > > section 2.2's date. Otherwise spams and such containing dates in past=20 > > can end up somewhere hidden in the middle of the mailbox and future=20 > > dates always at the top of the mailbox. >=20 > I don't think all that really matters. I've seen internaldate snafus=20 > too. But if you want it and noone opposes it, then I'll happily use the=20 > text. Yes, I'd like it. The idea was to always find the newest threads easily so if the Date: header is a lot different from INTERNALDATE it again makes the thread difficult to find. > > 2) The sorting change only concerns about sorting thread roots, which=20 > > isn't immediately obvious from the above, although it refers to step=20 > > (4). >=20 > Hm, it doesn't sort siblings that way? I don't suppose it matters. Nope. I haven't heard of any complains for the inside-thread sorting, so I assume it works well enough in THREAD=3DREFERENCES. The only issue was finding the threads. (Also I've been using that kind of threading in Evolution for years now and I like it.) > > Maybe something like: > > > > THREAD=3DREFS sorts thread roots by the most recent INTERNALDATE of eac= h=20 > > thread, replacing step(4) of THREAD=3DREFERENCES. This means that when=20 > > a new message arrives, its thread becomes the latest thread. >=20 > I had something indistinguishable from that text in an unpublished revisi= on ;) Maybe the -06 will be perfect. :) --=-Y5YlYoRP6AlLy8Qd2wER Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEABECAAYFAkllG+AACgkQyUhSUUBViskcjwCfTaGVlwpJq1jt0AFMSDVT4kxm LDEAoIBa6C+1m6Bzcc4w3FHpBvx05wZn =nNrN -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-Y5YlYoRP6AlLy8Qd2wER-- --===============1233178684== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ MORG mailing list MORG@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/morg Note Well: http://www.ietf.org/maillist.html --===============1233178684==-- From morg-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jan 7 13:35:20 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: morg-archive@optimus.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-morg-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B8313A695A; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 13:35:20 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: morg@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: morg@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89D4C3A689D for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 13:35:18 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.523 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.523 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.075, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JlA-mSe455vC for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 13:35:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from kalyani.oryx.com (kalyani.oryx.com [195.30.37.30]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF7DD3A68FE for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 13:35:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from kalyani.oryx.com (localhost.oryx.com [127.0.0.1]) by kalyani.oryx.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74DFB4AC44; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 22:35:02 +0100 (CET) Received: from arnt@oryx.com (HELO lochnagar.oryx.com) by kalyani.oryx.com (Archiveopteryx 3.1.0) with esmtp id 1231364101-75452-1/6/1 for morg@ietf.org; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 22:35:01 +0100 Message-Id: Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 22:35:05 +0100 From: Arnt Gulbrandsen To: morg@ietf.org References: <20081215152700.CEA523A688D@core3.amsl.com> <1229682680.4066.61.camel@hurina> <1231363040.24402.9.camel@timo-desktop> In-Reply-To: <1231363040.24402.9.camel@timo-desktop> Subject: Re: [MORG] draft-gulbrandsen-imap-inthread-05 X-BeenThere: morg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Messaging Organization List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: morg-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: morg-bounces@ietf.org Timo Sirainen writes: > Maybe the -06 will be perfect. :) If so, can we issue an IETF LC the day after the MORG WG is formed? Arnt _______________________________________________ MORG mailing list MORG@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/morg Note Well: http://www.ietf.org/maillist.html From morg-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jan 14 05:24:53 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: morg-archive@optimus.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-morg-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AE523A6B5C; Wed, 14 Jan 2009 05:24:53 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: morg@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: morg@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6ECBC3A6B5C for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2009 05:24:52 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.535 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.535 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.063, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xNFFtqbQMJtK for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2009 05:24:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from kalyani.oryx.com (kalyani.oryx.com [195.30.37.30]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F2B43A63EC for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2009 05:24:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from kalyani.oryx.com (localhost.oryx.com [127.0.0.1]) by kalyani.oryx.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F3BD4AC46; Wed, 14 Jan 2009 14:24:35 +0100 (CET) Received: from arnt@oryx.com (HELO lochnagar.oryx.com) by kalyani.oryx.com (Archiveopteryx 3.0.5) with esmtp id 1231939475-21270-1/6/21 for morg@ietf.org; Wed, 14 Jan 2009 14:24:35 +0100 Message-Id: Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 14:24:48 +0100 From: Arnt Gulbrandsen To: morg@ietf.org References: <20081215152700.CEA523A688D@core3.amsl.com> <1229682680.4066.61.camel@hurina> <1231363040.24402.9.camel@timo-desktop> In-Reply-To: <1231363040.24402.9.camel@timo-desktop> Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [MORG] draft-gulbrandsen-imap-inthread-05 X-BeenThere: morg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Messaging Organization List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Sender: morg-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: morg-bounces@ietf.org Timo Sirainen writes: > Maybe the -06 will be perfect. :) Time to post -06. Shall I do so as d-g-i-inthread or as draft-ietf-morg-inthread-00? Arnt _______________________________________________ MORG mailing list MORG@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/morg Note Well: http://www.ietf.org/maillist.html From morg-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jan 14 05:28:03 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: morg-archive@optimus.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-morg-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69DED3A6B5D; Wed, 14 Jan 2009 05:28:03 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: morg@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: morg@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68CB43A6B60 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2009 05:28:02 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.538 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.538 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.060, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 20S-B6uwxWcF for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2009 05:28:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from kalyani.oryx.com (kalyani.oryx.com [195.30.37.30]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FF513A69CD for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2009 05:28:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from kalyani.oryx.com (localhost.oryx.com [127.0.0.1]) by kalyani.oryx.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2159B4AC22; Wed, 14 Jan 2009 14:27:46 +0100 (CET) Received: from arnt@oryx.com (HELO lochnagar.oryx.com) by kalyani.oryx.com (Archiveopteryx 3.0.5) with esmtp id 1231939665-21270-1/6/21 for morg@ietf.org; Wed, 14 Jan 2009 14:27:45 +0100 Message-Id: Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 14:27:58 +0100 From: Arnt Gulbrandsen To: morg@ietf.org References: <20081215152700.CEA523A688D@core3.amsl.com> <1229682680.4066.61.camel@hurina> <1231363040.24402.9.camel@timo-desktop> In-Reply-To: <1231363040.24402.9.camel@timo-desktop> Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [MORG] draft-gulbrandsen-imap-inthread-05 X-BeenThere: morg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Messaging Organization List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed" Sender: morg-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: morg-bounces@ietf.org VGltbyBTaXJhaW5lbiBhbnN3ZXJzIG1lOgo+IFRoZSBpZGVhIHdhcyB0byBhbHdheXMgZmluZCB0 aGUgbmV3ZXN0IHRocmVhZHMgZWFzaWx5IHNvIGlmIHRoZSBEYXRlOiAKPiBoZWFkZXIgaXMgYSBs b3QgZGlmZmVyZW50IGZyb20gSU5URVJOQUxEQVRFIGl0IGFnYWluIG1ha2VzIHRoZSB0aHJlYWQg Cj4gZGlmZmljdWx0IHRvIGZpbmQuCgpJJ3ZlIGRlY2lkZWQgSSBhZ3JlZSB3aXRoIHlvdS4gQmVs b3cuCgo+PiAgSG0sIGl0IGRvZXNuJ3Qgc29ydCBzaWJsaW5ncyB0aGF0IHdheT8gSSBkb24ndCBz dXBwb3NlIGl0IG1hdHRlcnMuCj4KPiBOb3BlLiBJIGhhdmVuJ3QgaGVhcmQgb2YgYW55IGNvbXBs YWlucyBmb3IgdGhlIGluc2lkZS10aHJlYWQgc29ydGluZywgCj4gc28gSSBhc3N1bWUgaXQgd29y a3Mgd2VsbCBlbm91Z2ggaW4gVEhSRUFEPVJFRkVSRU5DRVMuIFRoZSBvbmx5IGlzc3VlIAo+IHdh cyBmaW5kaW5nIHRoZSB0aHJlYWRzLiAoQWxzbyBJJ3ZlIGJlZW4gdXNpbmcgdGhhdCBraW5kIG9m IHRocmVhZGluZyAKPiBpbiBFdm9sdXRpb24gZm9yIHllYXJzIG5vdyBhbmQgSSBsaWtlIGl0LikK CldoZW4gcmVhZGluZyBhIHRocmVhZCwgeW91IHdhbnQgdG8gcmVhZCBtZXNzYWdlcyBhcyBvcmRl cmVkIGJ5IHRoZSAKc2VuZGVycyDigJQgdGhhdCBnaXZlcyB0aGUgYmVzdCBjb250ZXh0IGZvciBl YWNoIGluZGl2aWR1YWwgbWVzc2FnZS4gQnV0IAp3aGVuIHlvdSBsb29rIGF0IHRoZSBncmFuZCBs aXN0IG9mIHRocmVhZHMsIHlvdSB3YW50IHRvIHNlZSB0aGVtIApvcmRlcmVkIGJ5IGFycml2YWwg dGltZS4KClNvIHRoaXMgZGlmZmVyZW5jZSBtYWtlcyBzZW5zZS4KCkFybnQKX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18KTU9SRyBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QKTU9S R0BpZXRmLm9yZwpodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL21vcmcKTm90 ZSBXZWxsOiBodHRwOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxsaXN0Lmh0bWwK From morg-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jan 14 07:24:10 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: morg-archive@optimus.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-morg-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D4883A69F5; Wed, 14 Jan 2009 07:24:10 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: morg@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: morg@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D9773A69EA for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2009 07:24:08 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.632 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.632 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.033, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id b-0PFztl+9IJ for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2009 07:24:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from rufus.isode.com (rufus.isode.com [62.3.217.251]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A53A13A69F8 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2009 07:24:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.0.8] ((unknown) [62.3.217.253]) by rufus.isode.com (submission channel) via TCP with ESMTPA id ; Wed, 14 Jan 2009 15:23:52 +0000 X-SMTP-Protocol-Errors: NORDNS Message-ID: <496E037C.7000105@isode.com> Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 15:23:40 +0000 From: Alexey Melnikov User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en To: Arnt Gulbrandsen References: <20081215152700.CEA523A688D@core3.amsl.com> <1229682680.4066.61.camel@hurina> <1231363040.24402.9.camel@timo-desktop> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: morg@ietf.org Subject: Re: [MORG] draft-gulbrandsen-imap-inthread-05 X-BeenThere: morg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Messaging Organization List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Sender: morg-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: morg-bounces@ietf.org Arnt Gulbrandsen wrote: > Timo Sirainen writes: > >> Maybe the -06 will be perfect. :) > > Time to post -06. Shall I do so as d-g-i-inthread or as > draft-ietf-morg-inthread-00? I think all drafts should be posted as draft-ietf-morg-* now. _______________________________________________ MORG mailing list MORG@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/morg Note Well: http://www.ietf.org/maillist.html From morg-bounces@ietf.org Mon Jan 19 15:21:07 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: morg-archive@optimus.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-morg-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF5913A6A29; Mon, 19 Jan 2009 15:21:07 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: morg@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: morg@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21D163A694A for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2009 15:21:07 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.171 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.171 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.430, BAYES_20=-0.74, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WV+JxR0iOQqf for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2009 15:21:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from dovecot.org (dovecot.org [82.118.211.50]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C065B3A6A16 for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2009 15:21:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.4.192.51] (unknown [74.205.24.229]) by dovecot.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4339016471F6 for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 01:20:41 +0200 (EET) From: Timo Sirainen To: morg@ietf.org Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 18:20:40 -0500 Message-Id: <1232407240.11402.75.camel@timo-desktop> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.24.2 Subject: [MORG] Draft names X-BeenThere: morg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Messaging Organization List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0169163717==" Sender: morg-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: morg-bounces@ietf.org --===============0169163717== Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-sha1"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-7uL2d8a+xBQtNuhyM/Fd" --=-7uL2d8a+xBQtNuhyM/Fd Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Following Alexey's instructions I have (hopefully) managed to approve these draft names for the tasks in the WG charter: (a) draft-ietf-morg-sortdisplay (b) draft-ietf-morg-address-search (c) draft-ietf-morg-status-in-list (d) draft-ietf-morg-message-counters (e) draft-ietf-morg-fuzzy-search (f) draft-ietf-morg-collations (g) draft-ietf-morg-inthread (h) draft-ietf-morg-multimailbox-search --=-7uL2d8a+xBQtNuhyM/Fd Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEABECAAYFAkl1CsgACgkQyUhSUUBVislrCACgnvw8i98Kunw7lLqC/lShnSLl Q1gAnj27a9VHpiizyQBGnKRuqOCutKQ2 =cGe4 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-7uL2d8a+xBQtNuhyM/Fd-- --===============0169163717== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ MORG mailing list MORG@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/morg Note Well: http://www.ietf.org/maillist.html --===============0169163717==-- From morg-bounces@ietf.org Fri Jan 23 11:22:02 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: morg-archive@optimus.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-morg-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 779D43A6A00; Fri, 23 Jan 2009 11:22:02 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: morg@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: morg@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE74F3A6878 for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2009 11:22:01 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.539 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.539 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.060, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LbSn6Vd9IZul for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2009 11:22:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from rufus.isode.com (rufus.isode.com [62.3.217.251]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D63833A6A00 for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2009 11:22:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from [172.16.2.184] (shiny.isode.com [62.3.217.250]) by rufus.isode.com (submission channel) via TCP with ESMTPA id ; Fri, 23 Jan 2009 19:21:43 +0000 Message-ID: <497A18AD.8090506@isode.com> Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 19:21:17 +0000 From: Alexey Melnikov User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en To: Timo Sirainen References: <1232407240.11402.75.camel@timo-desktop> In-Reply-To: <1232407240.11402.75.camel@timo-desktop> MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: morg@ietf.org Subject: Re: [MORG] Draft names X-BeenThere: morg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Messaging Organization List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Sender: morg-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: morg-bounces@ietf.org Timo Sirainen wrote: >Following Alexey's instructions I have (hopefully) managed to approve >these draft names for the tasks in the WG charter: > >(a) draft-ietf-morg-sortdisplay >(b) draft-ietf-morg-address-search >(c) draft-ietf-morg-status-in-list >(d) draft-ietf-morg-message-counters >(e) draft-ietf-morg-fuzzy-search >(f) draft-ietf-morg-collations >(g) draft-ietf-morg-inthread >(h) draft-ietf-morg-multimailbox-search > > I've just posted draft-ietf-morg-multimailbox-search-00.txt and it worked. _______________________________________________ MORG mailing list MORG@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/morg Note Well: http://www.ietf.org/maillist.html From morg-bounces@ietf.org Mon Jan 26 04:19:28 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: morg-archive@optimus.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-morg-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93FC23A6A70; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 04:19:28 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: morg@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: morg@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79D603A6A70 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 04:19:27 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.55 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.048, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pw3aZM4Dd7Df for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 04:19:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from kalyani.oryx.com (kalyani.oryx.com [195.30.37.30]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FC183A6A67 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 04:19:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from kalyani.oryx.com (localhost.oryx.com [127.0.0.1]) by kalyani.oryx.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1EA4B4AC6C; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 13:19:07 +0100 (CET) Received: from arnt@oryx.com (HELO lochnagar) by kalyani.oryx.com (Archiveopteryx 3.1.0) with esmtp id 1232972346-9030-1/6/35 for morg@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 13:19:06 +0100 Message-Id: Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 13:19:40 +0100 From: Arnt Gulbrandsen To: morg@ietf.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [MORG] multimailbox comments X-BeenThere: morg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Messaging Organization List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Sender: morg-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: morg-bounces@ietf.org 1. Shouldn't a multimailbox search (the only kind that's relevant to this document) always return ESEARCH, never SEARCH? 2. The mailbox correlator needs UIDVALIDITY. 3. I see no value in DEPTH. It wouldn't be so very difficult for me to implement, but I see no point in doing it. Mark would say "neat to have". 4. I'm neutral on borrowing mailbox syntax from Notify. 5. Is the eventual capability name supposed to be MMBX? Why? Arnt _______________________________________________ MORG mailing list MORG@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/morg Note Well: http://www.ietf.org/maillist.html From morg-bounces@ietf.org Mon Jan 26 04:24:18 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: morg-archive@optimus.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-morg-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 018B73A6A0D; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 04:24:18 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: morg@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: morg@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9273F3A6A0D for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 04:24:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.544 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.544 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.055, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ewmk3AgSgkyX for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 04:24:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from rufus.isode.com (rufus.isode.com [62.3.217.251]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFCED3A67FB for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 04:24:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from [92.40.245.143] (92.40.245.143.sub.mbb.three.co.uk [92.40.245.143]) by rufus.isode.com (submission channel) via TCP with ESMTPA id ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 12:23:57 +0000 Message-ID: <497DAB3A.5080705@isode.com> Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 12:23:22 +0000 From: Alexey Melnikov User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en To: Arnt Gulbrandsen References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: morg@ietf.org Subject: Re: [MORG] multimailbox comments X-BeenThere: morg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Messaging Organization List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Sender: morg-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: morg-bounces@ietf.org Arnt Gulbrandsen wrote: > 1. Shouldn't a multimailbox search (the only kind that's relevant to > this document) always return ESEARCH, never SEARCH? Yes. > 2. The mailbox correlator needs UIDVALIDITY. Ok. > 3. I see no value in DEPTH. It wouldn't be so very difficult for me to > implement, but I see no point in doing it. Mark would say "neat to have". > > 4. I'm neutral on borrowing mailbox syntax from Notify. I am still thinking about these 2. > 5. Is the eventual capability name supposed to be MMBX? Why? Because MULTIMAILBOXSEARCH is long. But I am open to suggestions. _______________________________________________ MORG mailing list MORG@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/morg Note Well: http://www.ietf.org/maillist.html From morg-bounces@ietf.org Mon Jan 26 04:31:08 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: morg-archive@optimus.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-morg-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 502EB3A6A6B; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 04:31:08 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: morg@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: morg@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 404393A6A6B for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 04:31:07 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.552 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.552 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.046, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gdwmWGbLnliY for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 04:31:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from kalyani.oryx.com (kalyani.oryx.com [195.30.37.30]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 475083A69FD for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 04:31:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from kalyani.oryx.com (localhost.oryx.com [127.0.0.1]) by kalyani.oryx.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 214024AC44; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 13:30:48 +0100 (CET) Received: from arnt@oryx.com (HELO lochnagar) by kalyani.oryx.com (Archiveopteryx 3.1.0) with esmtp id 1232973047-9030-1/6/36 (3 recipients); Mon, 26 Jan 2009 13:30:47 +0100 Message-Id: <4ABd3ioYggV9pbZvsm9ffg.md5@lochnagar> Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 13:31:21 +0100 From: Arnt Gulbrandsen To: Alexey Melnikov References: <497DAB3A.5080705@isode.com> In-Reply-To: <497DAB3A.5080705@isode.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Cc: morg@ietf.org Subject: Re: [MORG] multimailbox comments X-BeenThere: morg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Messaging Organization List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Sender: morg-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: morg-bounces@ietf.org Alexey Melnikov writes: > Arnt Gulbrandsen wrote: >> 5. Is the eventual capability name supposed to be MMBX? Why? > > Because MULTIMAILBOXSEARCH is long. But I am open to suggestions. MMSEARCH maybe. But I don't really care. MMBX is okay. Surprised me. Just make sure you say what it is to be. The document as it stands doesn't actually say that, it only names the X-THIS-AND-THAT wart. 6. I think the client usually needs both l and r to use multimailbox search: l in order to do the glob, r in order to do the search. 7. Multimailbox search doesn't permit any kind of ACL error. All ACL errors are silently ignored. I think that's fine, but perhaps it should be stated explicitly. Arnt _______________________________________________ MORG mailing list MORG@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/morg Note Well: http://www.ietf.org/maillist.html From morg-bounces@ietf.org Mon Jan 26 05:30:09 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: morg-archive@optimus.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-morg-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 015E928C134; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 05:30:09 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: morg@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: morg@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4157B3A6B79 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 05:30:08 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.554 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.554 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.044, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fgoFreeYb8GZ for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 05:30:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from kalyani.oryx.com (kalyani.oryx.com [195.30.37.30]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF9243A6A6A for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 05:30:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from kalyani.oryx.com (localhost.oryx.com [127.0.0.1]) by kalyani.oryx.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B1E04AC44; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 14:29:48 +0100 (CET) Received: from arnt@oryx.com (HELO lochnagar) by kalyani.oryx.com (Archiveopteryx 3.1.0) with esmtp id 1232976587-9030-1/6/37 (2 recipients); Mon, 26 Jan 2009 14:29:47 +0100 Message-Id: Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 14:30:21 +0100 From: Arnt Gulbrandsen To: morg@ietf.org References: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [MORG] multimailbox comments X-BeenThere: morg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Messaging Organization List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Sender: morg-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: morg-bounces@ietf.org Arnt Gulbrandsen writes: > 4. I'm neutral on borrowing mailbox syntax from Notify. I'm implementing. I don't like LIST and its globbing. It brings too many problems for its value, there are ten corner cases for every use case, and there's a fresh new problem every year. (No insult intended, Mark. IMAP has many good features, and noone can expect you to get it right every time.) AFAICT the use cases for multimailbox search involves searching some subtree of mailboxes. Occasionally someone mentions searching several subtrees, or even "all mailboxes I can read". Therefore, my preference would be for multimailbox search to take a list of mailbox names, treat it as a list of subtree roots, search all (l)r-able mailboxes in those subtrees, and ignore other mailboxes. That covers what I need, what people tell me they need (but I don't entirely trust), is easy for me to implement, and doesn't perpetuate LIST's globbing. Arnt _______________________________________________ MORG mailing list MORG@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/morg Note Well: http://www.ietf.org/maillist.html From morg-bounces@ietf.org Mon Jan 26 07:31:29 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: morg-archive@optimus.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-morg-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D2A028C22C; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 07:31:29 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: morg@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: morg@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9B4B28C20E for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 07:31:27 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.957 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.957 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.643, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ims38DIe+SLW for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 07:31:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from dovecot.org (dovecot.org [82.118.211.50]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E406F28C22C for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 07:31:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.4.192.51] (unknown [74.205.24.229]) by dovecot.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82C9A1647275 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 17:30:49 +0200 (EET) From: Timo Sirainen To: morg@ietf.org In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 10:30:47 -0500 Message-Id: <1232983847.11402.288.camel@timo-desktop> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.24.2 Subject: Re: [MORG] multimailbox comments X-BeenThere: morg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Messaging Organization List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1235531699==" Sender: morg-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: morg-bounces@ietf.org --===============1235531699== Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-sha1"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-PgHMuw3GPbvGXIx8vW1o" --=-PgHMuw3GPbvGXIx8vW1o Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable What are people's thoughts in using views instead of SEARCH IN? The views have 3 major advantages that I can see: 1) They're really easy to implement by existing clients. In fact if the view is already created (e.g. a default view by admin) the client requires no support at all to be able to use it, since it would show up as a regular mailbox. 2) Reduces roundtrips that are required to fetch information about messages that were found. 3) Clients don't need special code for noticing and handling UIDVALIDITY changes between SEARCH and SELECT/FETCH. I wrote about my plans a couple of months ago, but there were no replies: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/morg/current/msg00078.html I could start writing a (yet another) draft about views, but I won't bother if no one else has interest in implementing them. --=-PgHMuw3GPbvGXIx8vW1o Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEABECAAYFAkl91ycACgkQyUhSUUBVislfUgCeLtMJJRd7iO8bX9nzdiO8FuM1 Y2QAnRH+2bzIogk7hzH/WLzIwRG3gNwa =PrlD -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-PgHMuw3GPbvGXIx8vW1o-- --===============1235531699== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ MORG mailing list MORG@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/morg Note Well: http://www.ietf.org/maillist.html --===============1235531699==-- From morg-bounces@ietf.org Mon Jan 26 07:40:51 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: morg-archive@optimus.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-morg-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B79B728C232; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 07:40:51 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: morg@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: morg@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD86228C20E for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 07:40:50 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.54 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.54 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.059, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id k-y9VH-yafFE for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 07:40:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from rufus.isode.com (rufus.isode.com [62.3.217.251]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B933228C215 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 07:40:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.0.6] ((unknown) [62.3.217.253]) by rufus.isode.com (submission channel) via TCP with ESMTPA id ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 15:40:31 +0000 X-SMTP-Protocol-Errors: NORDNS Message-ID: <497DD953.90301@isode.com> Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 15:40:03 +0000 From: Alexey Melnikov User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en To: Timo Sirainen References: <1232983847.11402.288.camel@timo-desktop> In-Reply-To: <1232983847.11402.288.camel@timo-desktop> MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: morg@ietf.org Subject: Re: [MORG] multimailbox comments X-BeenThere: morg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Messaging Organization List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Sender: morg-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: morg-bounces@ietf.org Timo Sirainen wrote: >What are people's thoughts in using views instead of SEARCH IN? The >views have 3 major advantages that I can see: > >1) They're really easy to implement by existing clients. In fact if the >view is already created (e.g. a default view by admin) the client >requires no support at all to be able to use it, since it would show up >as a regular mailbox. > >2) Reduces roundtrips that are required to fetch information about >messages that were found. > >3) Clients don't need special code for noticing and handling UIDVALIDITY >changes between SEARCH and SELECT/FETCH. > >I wrote about my plans a couple of months ago, but there were no >replies: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/morg/current/msg00078.html > > It is hard for me to make a choice, because I don't have enough details. >I could start writing a (yet another) draft about views, but I won't >bother if no one else has interest in implementing them. > > I would suggest you write a draft that at least demonstrates (using examples) all features you want to add to the protocol. I hope this would be less work that describing your proposal in details. _______________________________________________ MORG mailing list MORG@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/morg Note Well: http://www.ietf.org/maillist.html From morg-bounces@ietf.org Mon Jan 26 07:44:10 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: morg-archive@optimus.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-morg-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDB4A3A6921; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 07:44:10 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: morg@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: morg@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C39928C20E for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 07:44:09 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.555 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.555 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.043, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BNnKuuaCEV52 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 07:44:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from kalyani.oryx.com (kalyani.oryx.com [195.30.37.30]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80B6D3A67EC for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 07:44:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from kalyani.oryx.com (localhost.oryx.com [127.0.0.1]) by kalyani.oryx.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1EBFE4AC6A; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 16:43:50 +0100 (CET) Received: from arnt@oryx.com (HELO lochnagar) by kalyani.oryx.com (Archiveopteryx 3.1.0) with esmtp id 1232984629-9030-1/6/41 (3 recipients); Mon, 26 Jan 2009 16:43:49 +0100 Message-Id: Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 16:44:23 +0100 From: Arnt Gulbrandsen To: Timo Sirainen References: <1232983847.11402.288.camel@timo-desktop> In-Reply-To: <1232983847.11402.288.camel@timo-desktop> Mime-Version: 1.0 Cc: morg@ietf.org Subject: Re: [MORG] multimailbox comments X-BeenThere: morg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Messaging Organization List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Sender: morg-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: morg-bounces@ietf.org Timo Sirainen writes: > What are people's thoughts in using views instead of SEARCH IN? The > views have 3 major advantages that I can see: Do you mean snapshot views or dynamic ones? > I wrote about my plans a couple of months ago, but there were no > replies: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/morg/current/msg00078.html > > I could start writing a (yet another) draft about views, but I won't > bother if no one else has interest in implementing them. I could do that easily. I don't mind one way or the other. But I do want something that goes away, something unnamed. Named views tend to stay around for a while and be updated many times. Polluting that with temporary searches is a pain. So I want something that a client can run to look at the results once. Perhap a new argument to SELECT that makes it create a new session on the result of a search, instead of on a new mailbox. Or something. Arnt _______________________________________________ MORG mailing list MORG@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/morg Note Well: http://www.ietf.org/maillist.html From morg-bounces@ietf.org Mon Jan 26 07:55:51 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: morg-archive@optimus.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-morg-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACC9928C232; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 07:55:51 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: morg@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: morg@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FDFB28C232 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 07:55:50 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.024 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.024 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.425, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id p9EKImx86yui for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 07:55:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from daboo.name (daboo.name [151.201.22.177]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D82728C227 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 07:55:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by daboo.name (Postfix) with ESMTP id 761F9111F373; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 10:55:31 -0500 (EST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at daboo.name Received: from daboo.name ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (chewy.mulberrymail.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Q-Z3AZNmmJVE; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 10:55:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from caldav.corp.apple.com (unknown [17.101.32.44]) by daboo.name (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BF1C111F369; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 10:55:30 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 10:55:27 -0500 From: Cyrus Daboo To: Timo Sirainen , morg@ietf.org Message-ID: <3D79641BD15514EE85F94643@caldav.corp.apple.com> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.1.0a1 (Mac OS X) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline; size=991 Subject: Re: [MORG] multimailbox comments X-BeenThere: morg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Messaging Organization List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Sender: morg-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: morg-bounces@ietf.org Hi Timo, --On January 26, 2009 10:30:47 AM -0500 Timo Sirainen wrote: > I wrote about my plans a couple of months ago, but there were no > replies: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/morg/current/msg00078.html > > I could start writing a (yet another) draft about views, but I won't > bother if no one else has interest in implementing them. Interest in implementing isn't sufficient. Commitment to implement is. The key thing here is that "virtual" mailboxes are not of interest to desktop clients because they mostly already do that using their local cache. So what you need is a firm commitment from mobile client vendors to implement this - having them simply say "that sounds interesting" shouldn't be enough to distract this group from its existing tasks (given that in the past "view" was something of a rathole). Let me ask this: how many people participating in this group are real client implementors? How many work on desktop vs mobile? -- Cyrus Daboo _______________________________________________ MORG mailing list MORG@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/morg Note Well: http://www.ietf.org/maillist.html From morg-bounces@ietf.org Mon Jan 26 08:04:56 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: morg-archive@optimus.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-morg-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD4AD28C253; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 08:04:56 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: morg@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: morg@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3ED8E28C255 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 08:04:55 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.542 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.542 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.057, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OW89mvk3PYRh for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 08:04:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from rufus.isode.com (rufus.isode.com [62.3.217.251]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE29328C247 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 08:04:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.0.6] ((unknown) [62.3.217.253]) by rufus.isode.com (submission channel) via TCP with ESMTPA id ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 16:04:32 +0000 X-SMTP-Protocol-Errors: NORDNS Message-ID: <497DDEF0.3000605@isode.com> Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 16:04:00 +0000 From: Alexey Melnikov User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en To: Cyrus Daboo References: <3D79641BD15514EE85F94643@caldav.corp.apple.com> In-Reply-To: <3D79641BD15514EE85F94643@caldav.corp.apple.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: morg@ietf.org Subject: Re: [MORG] multimailbox comments X-BeenThere: morg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Messaging Organization List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Sender: morg-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: morg-bounces@ietf.org Cyrus Daboo wrote: > Hi Timo, Hi Cyrus, > --On January 26, 2009 10:30:47 AM -0500 Timo Sirainen wrote: > >> I wrote about my plans a couple of months ago, but there were no >> replies: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/morg/current/msg00078.html >> >> I could start writing a (yet another) draft about views, but I won't >> bother if no one else has interest in implementing them. > > Interest in implementing isn't sufficient. Commitment to implement is. > The key thing here is that "virtual" mailboxes are not of interest to > desktop clients because they mostly already do that using their local > cache. This is not quite true: this assumes that the client has cached *everything*, which is not always the case. Personally, I am only interested in being able to find stuff in any of the specified mailboxes. Virtual multimailbox view can be used for that, even by desktop clients. (For example I would hope that clients like Thunderbird would take advantage of this, as they already implement this feature using just the basic IMAP) > So what you need is a firm commitment from mobile client vendors to > implement this - having them simply say "that sounds interesting" > shouldn't be enough to distract this group from its existing tasks > (given that in the past "view" was something of a rathole). > > Let me ask this: how many people participating in this group are real > client implementors? How many work on desktop vs mobile? I can't count myself as a desktop or mobile client developer, even though I have a specialized client I am writing. _______________________________________________ MORG mailing list MORG@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/morg Note Well: http://www.ietf.org/maillist.html From morg-bounces@ietf.org Mon Jan 26 08:10:34 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: morg-archive@optimus.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-morg-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E9533A6BB8; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 08:10:34 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: morg@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: morg@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F3DB3A6BB4 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 08:10:32 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.58 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.58 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.019, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BbK90AEAs5Yg for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 08:10:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from e32.co.us.ibm.com (e32.co.us.ibm.com [32.97.110.150]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1333C3A6A77 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 08:10:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from d03relay02.boulder.ibm.com (d03relay02.boulder.ibm.com [9.17.195.227]) by e32.co.us.ibm.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id n0QG883v025247 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 09:08:08 -0700 Received: from d03av01.boulder.ibm.com (d03av01.boulder.ibm.com [9.17.195.167]) by d03relay02.boulder.ibm.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/NCO v9.1) with ESMTP id n0QGA4qM117432 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 09:10:05 -0700 Received: from d03av01.boulder.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d03av01.boulder.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.13.3) with ESMTP id n0QGA3Ve021183 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 09:10:03 -0700 Received: from poplar (poplar.watson.ibm.com [9.2.24.140]) by d03av01.boulder.ibm.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id n0QGA3Jr021155 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 09:10:03 -0700 Received: from Uranus-009002042072.watson.ibm.com ([9.2.42.72]) by poplar.watson.ibm.com (IMF.2005.07.16.1050.haw) with SMTP ID IMFd1232986205.987; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 11:10:05 -0400 Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 11:10:01 -0500 From: Barry Leiba To: morg@ietf.org Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <1232983847.11402.288.camel@timo-desktop> References: <1232983847.11402.288.camel@timo-desktop> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.8 (Mac OS X) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Subject: Re: [MORG] multimailbox comments X-BeenThere: morg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Messaging Organization List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Sender: morg-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: morg-bounces@ietf.org Timo says... > What are people's thoughts in using views instead of SEARCH IN? The > views have 3 major advantages that I can see: Cyrus calls "views" "something of a rathole". I like Cyrus's nicely understated manner, don't you? Arnt says... > But I do want something that goes away, something unnamed. Named views tend to > stay around for a while and be updated many times. Polluting that with > temporary searches is a pain. > > So I want something that a client can run to look at the results once. Perhap a > new argument to SELECT that makes it create a new session on the result of a > search, instead of on a new mailbox. Or something. Arnt starts to get at *why* this isn't so much a "rathole" as a black hole of a size astronomers have yet to comprehend. Arnt and Timo weren't around during the Great View Wars, but you can look at the archives. The gist of it is that everyone knows what Views should do, to a first approximation, and everyone agrees that they're great, answer all our questions, create peace in the middle east, and let us all live in the lap of luxury for 175-year life spans. The problem is that when we get past the first approximation, it becomes surprisingly complex and leads to wild disagreements about what should happen. Is the view static or dynamic? What happens when new messages arrive? What happens when existing messages change stat to enter or leave the criteria that define the view? Should a view subset a single mailbox, or allow a virtual view that spans mailboxes? How does that work with ACLs, referrals, and such? Etc, etc.... Note that I'm not asking anyone to answer the questions in the previous paragraph: the problem is that we'll all have different answers, and we'll all be right, for one scenario or another. And every answer will create a different implementation complexity issue, both for the server vendors and for the client vendors. I'm not saying that we'll never solve it and come up with something that we can all live with, or even be happy with. But Cyrus is right that unless we have *several* clients that will implement it and who can guide us on *real* requirements, so that we come up with answers to all these issues that make it *usable* in the real world, there's no point in approaching the event horizon. Barry -- Barry Leiba, Senior Technical Staff (leiba@watson.ibm.com) Internet Messaging Technology, IBM Research http://www.research.ibm.com/people/l/leiba http://www.research.ibm.com/spam _______________________________________________ MORG mailing list MORG@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/morg Note Well: http://www.ietf.org/maillist.html From morg-bounces@ietf.org Mon Jan 26 10:43:35 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: morg-archive@optimus.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-morg-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6BEEA3A6AF2; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 10:43:35 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: morg@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: morg@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 828CD3A6A93 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 10:43:33 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.117 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.117 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.482, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xGHdm3oZLezN for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 10:43:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from dovecot.org (dovecot.org [82.118.211.50]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 897933A68BA for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 10:43:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.4.192.51] (unknown [74.205.24.229]) by dovecot.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5DDC16471E1; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 20:43:09 +0200 (EET) From: Timo Sirainen To: Cyrus Daboo In-Reply-To: <3D79641BD15514EE85F94643@caldav.corp.apple.com> References: <3D79641BD15514EE85F94643@caldav.corp.apple.com> Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 13:43:07 -0500 Message-Id: <1232995387.11402.296.camel@timo-desktop> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.24.2 Cc: morg@ietf.org Subject: Re: [MORG] multimailbox comments X-BeenThere: morg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Messaging Organization List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1118826313==" Sender: morg-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: morg-bounces@ietf.org --===============1118826313== Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-sha1"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-VFdhBrulspUbLYZDnFda" --=-VFdhBrulspUbLYZDnFda Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, 2009-01-26 at 10:55 -0500, Cyrus Daboo wrote: > Hi Timo, >=20 > --On January 26, 2009 10:30:47 AM -0500 Timo Sirainen wrote: >=20 > > I wrote about my plans a couple of months ago, but there were no > > replies: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/morg/current/msg00078.htm= l > > > > I could start writing a (yet another) draft about views, but I won't > > bother if no one else has interest in implementing them. >=20 > Interest in implementing isn't sufficient. Commitment to implement is. Th= e=20 > key thing here is that "virtual" mailboxes are not of interest to desktop= =20 > clients because they mostly already do that using their local cache. So=20 > what you need is a firm commitment from mobile client vendors to implemen= t=20 > this - having them simply say "that sounds interesting" shouldn't be enou= gh=20 > to distract this group from its existing tasks (given that in the past=20 > "view" was something of a rathole). >=20 > Let me ask this: how many people participating in this group are real=20 > client implementors? How many work on desktop vs mobile? I think webmail clients are also important. They're the ones that can start using the new features the most rapidly. I know at least one custom webmail implementation has implemented multi-mailbox search using Dovecot's virtual views and they liked how easily it was possible to implement. --=-VFdhBrulspUbLYZDnFda Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEABECAAYFAkl+BDsACgkQyUhSUUBViskEbwCfcIRGHrXx9/F3mtvulMOKfA1f q4QAn3uSPgRXJ02VFFweiKMjamKsUw+b =zxUS -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-VFdhBrulspUbLYZDnFda-- --===============1118826313== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ MORG mailing list MORG@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/morg Note Well: http://www.ietf.org/maillist.html --===============1118826313==-- From morg-bounces@ietf.org Mon Jan 26 10:57:42 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: morg-archive@optimus.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-morg-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28A7928C265; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 10:57:42 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: morg@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: morg@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0ED8A28C2A4 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 10:57:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.213 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.213 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.385, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id f3oiMFOz1RLL for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 10:57:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from dovecot.org (dovecot.org [82.118.211.50]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7365A28C265 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 10:57:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.4.192.51] (unknown [74.205.24.229]) by dovecot.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6827B16471E1; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 20:57:18 +0200 (EET) From: Timo Sirainen To: Arnt Gulbrandsen In-Reply-To: References: <1232983847.11402.288.camel@timo-desktop> Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 13:57:14 -0500 Message-Id: <1232996234.11402.305.camel@timo-desktop> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.24.2 Cc: morg@ietf.org Subject: Re: [MORG] multimailbox comments X-BeenThere: morg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Messaging Organization List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0255254210==" Sender: morg-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: morg-bounces@ietf.org --===============0255254210== Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-sha1"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-SAfUPy/+dPr1LYiK0O+1" --=-SAfUPy/+dPr1LYiK0O+1 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, 2009-01-26 at 16:44 +0100, Arnt Gulbrandsen wrote: > Timo Sirainen writes: > > What are people's thoughts in using views instead of SEARCH IN? The=20 > > views have 3 major advantages that I can see: >=20 > Do you mean snapshot views or dynamic ones? Either one would be fine with me. Both would work for multi-mailbox search. Dynamic ones would of course provide more functionality. > > I wrote about my plans a couple of months ago, but there were no > > replies: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/morg/current/msg00078.htm= l > > > > I could start writing a (yet another) draft about views, but I won't > > bother if no one else has interest in implementing them. >=20 > I could do that easily. I don't mind one way or the other. >=20 > But I do want something that goes away, something unnamed. Named views=20 > tend to stay around for a while and be updated many times. Polluting=20 > that with temporary searches is a pain. Sure. Although I'd think most clients simply want "search from all mailboxes" which would require just one permanent name. > So I want something that a client can run to look at the results once.=20 > Perhap a new argument to SELECT that makes it create a new session on=20 > the result of a search, instead of on a new mailbox. Or something. I think I also suggested that at some point :) Or not search parameters, but just a list of mailboxes that could be SELECTed and then SEARCH could be used inside them. That would also avoid double search if you want to do SORT / THREAD. --=-SAfUPy/+dPr1LYiK0O+1 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEABECAAYFAkl+B4oACgkQyUhSUUBViskTIgCgjOYq0GMRdvBj83gauPmbR2oo 5sAAniKchJ/fP3TdjXkRieQl/FVHrIQ7 =gWxJ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-SAfUPy/+dPr1LYiK0O+1-- --===============0255254210== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ MORG mailing list MORG@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/morg Note Well: http://www.ietf.org/maillist.html --===============0255254210==-- From morg-bounces@ietf.org Mon Jan 26 11:06:16 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: morg-archive@optimus.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-morg-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C7B33A6981; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 11:06:16 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: morg@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: morg@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 204BD3A68B8 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 11:06:15 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.58 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.58 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.377, BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NxtrvKl5fpPQ for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 11:06:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from dovecot.org (dovecot.org [82.118.211.50]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DED53A684E for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 11:06:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.4.192.51] (unknown [74.205.24.229]) by dovecot.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B54AF16471E1; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 21:05:55 +0200 (EET) From: Timo Sirainen To: Barry Leiba In-Reply-To: References: <1232983847.11402.288.camel@timo-desktop> Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 14:05:54 -0500 Message-Id: <1232996754.11402.310.camel@timo-desktop> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.24.2 Cc: morg@ietf.org Subject: Re: [MORG] multimailbox comments X-BeenThere: morg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Messaging Organization List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1078312087==" Sender: morg-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: morg-bounces@ietf.org --===============1078312087== Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-sha1"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-1rALYsOyA0Xtbs2qNNua" --=-1rALYsOyA0Xtbs2qNNua Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, 2009-01-26 at 11:10 -0500, Barry Leiba wrote: > Arnt and Timo weren't around during the Great View Wars, but you can look= at the=20 > archives. The gist of it is that everyone knows what Views should do, to= a first=20 > approximation, and everyone agrees that they're great, answer all our que= stions,=20 > create peace in the middle east, and let us all live in the lap of luxury= for=20 > 175-year life spans. >=20 > The problem is that when we get past the first approximation, it becomes=20 > surprisingly complex and leads to wild disagreements about what should ha= ppen.=20 > Is the view static or dynamic? What happens when new messages arrive? W= hat=20 > happens when existing messages change stat to enter or leave the criteria= that=20 > define the view? Should a view subset a single mailbox, or allow a virtu= al view=20 > that spans mailboxes? How does that work with ACLs, referrals, and such?= Etc,=20 > etc.... >=20 > Note that I'm not asking anyone to answer the questions in the previous=20 > paragraph: the problem is that we'll all have different answers, and we'l= l all be=20 > right, for one scenario or another. And every answer will create a diffe= rent=20 > implementation complexity issue, both for the server vendors and for the = client=20 > vendors. That's why I'm not really thinking about making views that solve everything for everyone (although I wouldn't really mind that either, as Dovecot already has most of that implemented :), but instead make the views just enough to easily allow multi-mailbox searches, maybe also keeping in mind how a future complex view specification might work. --=-1rALYsOyA0Xtbs2qNNua Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEABECAAYFAkl+CZIACgkQyUhSUUBVismacACglbqlPhg0towHe63YkxRxElAA EdIAn07ZCB2Sx9QIggYPnEzGwKOYHW99 =FLaA -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-1rALYsOyA0Xtbs2qNNua-- --===============1078312087== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ MORG mailing list MORG@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/morg Note Well: http://www.ietf.org/maillist.html --===============1078312087==-- From morg-bounces@ietf.org Tue Jan 27 04:14:11 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: morg-archive@optimus.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-morg-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A72163A6ABB; Tue, 27 Jan 2009 04:14:11 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: morg@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: morg@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A2943A6ABB for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2009 04:14:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.557 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.557 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.041, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PiT+nEpouZpW for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2009 04:14:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from kalyani.oryx.com (kalyani.oryx.com [195.30.37.30]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCBAD3A6A9E for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2009 04:14:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from kalyani.oryx.com (localhost.oryx.com [127.0.0.1]) by kalyani.oryx.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 910604AC5B; Tue, 27 Jan 2009 13:13:49 +0100 (CET) Received: from arnt@oryx.com (HELO lochnagar) by kalyani.oryx.com (Archiveopteryx 3.1.0) with esmtp id 1233058429-9030-1/6/52 (3 recipients); Tue, 27 Jan 2009 13:13:49 +0100 Message-Id: Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 13:14:24 +0100 From: Arnt Gulbrandsen To: Timo Sirainen References: <1232983847.11402.288.camel@timo-desktop> <1232996234.11402.305.camel@timo-desktop> In-Reply-To: <1232996234.11402.305.camel@timo-desktop> Mime-Version: 1.0 Cc: morg@ietf.org Subject: Re: [MORG] multimailbox comments X-BeenThere: morg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Messaging Organization List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Sender: morg-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: morg-bounces@ietf.org Timo Sirainen writes: > On Mon, 2009-01-26 at 16:44 +0100, Arnt Gulbrandsen wrote: >> Do you mean snapshot views or dynamic ones? > > Either one would be fine with me. Both would work for multi-mailbox > search. Dynamic ones would of course provide more functionality. Either would be fine with me; dynamic possibly a little simpler. >> But I do want something that goes away, something unnamed. Named >> views tend to stay around for a while and be updated many times. >> Polluting that with temporary searches is a pain. > > Sure. Although I'd think most clients simply want "search from all > mailboxes" which would require just one permanent name. As long as it's one, OK. Btw, if there's just one name per user, then two clients could get in each other's way. Although I suppose that won't matter much, since the user tends to use just one at a time. >> So I want something that a client can run to look at the results >> once. Perhap a new argument to SELECT that makes it create a new >> session on the result of a search, instead of on a new mailbox. Or >> something. > > I think I also suggested that at some point :) Fine. > Or not search parameters, but just a list of mailboxes that could be > SELECTed and then SEARCH could be used inside them. That would also > avoid double search if you want to do SORT / THREAD. I like that less. Everyone concerned would have to deal with a large intermediate set, and the UIDs would lose most of their desirable properties. Arnt _______________________________________________ MORG mailing list MORG@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/morg Note Well: http://www.ietf.org/maillist.html From morg-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jan 28 08:48:16 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: morg-archive@optimus.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-morg-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE48B3A686D; Wed, 28 Jan 2009 08:48:16 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: morg@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: morg@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2FEE3A686D for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2009 08:48:15 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.558 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.558 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.040, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pRD+RRHZG00X for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2009 08:48:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from kalyani.oryx.com (kalyani.oryx.com [195.30.37.30]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B3FD3A6835 for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2009 08:48:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from kalyani.oryx.com (localhost.oryx.com [127.0.0.1]) by kalyani.oryx.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96A044AC1B; Wed, 28 Jan 2009 17:47:55 +0100 (CET) Received: from arnt@oryx.com (HELO lochnagar) by kalyani.oryx.com (Archiveopteryx 3.1.0) with esmtp id 1233161275-9030-1/6/70 (2 recipients); Wed, 28 Jan 2009 17:47:55 +0100 Message-Id: Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 17:48:32 +0100 From: Arnt Gulbrandsen To: Messaging Organization References: <20090128164703.E48143A684B@core3.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20090128164703.E48143A684B@core3.amsl.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [MORG] New Version Notification for draft-ietf-morg-inthread-00 X-BeenThere: morg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Messaging Organization List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Sender: morg-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: morg-bounces@ietf.org IETF I-D Submission Tool writes: > A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-morg-inthread-00.txt has been > successfuly submitted by Arnt Gulbrandsen and posted to the IETF > repository. > > Filename: draft-ietf-morg-inthread > Revision: 00 The only change is to use internaldate for sorting overall threads (but still date for sorting siblings). Arnt _______________________________________________ MORG mailing list MORG@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/morg Note Well: http://www.ietf.org/maillist.html From morg-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jan 28 08:49:24 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: morg-archive@optimus.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-morg-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 243003A686D; Wed, 28 Jan 2009 08:49:24 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: morg@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: morg@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06C683A684B for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2009 08:49:23 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.559 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.559 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.039, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id r047IEu4+5qU for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2009 08:49:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from kalyani.oryx.com (kalyani.oryx.com [195.30.37.30]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 300D93A695C for ; Wed, 28 Jan 2009 08:49:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from kalyani.oryx.com (localhost.oryx.com [127.0.0.1]) by kalyani.oryx.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2B314AC1B; Wed, 28 Jan 2009 17:49:03 +0100 (CET) Received: from arnt@oryx.com (HELO lochnagar) by kalyani.oryx.com (Archiveopteryx 3.1.0) with esmtp id 1233161343-9030-1/6/70 (2 recipients); Wed, 28 Jan 2009 17:49:03 +0100 Message-Id: <7w1dr8SYXc8GiqTmC6tLHA.md5@lochnagar> Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 17:49:40 +0100 From: Arnt Gulbrandsen To: Messaging Organization References: <20090128164703.E48143A684B@core3.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [MORG] New Version Notification for draft-ietf-morg-inthread-00 X-BeenThere: morg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Messaging Organization List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: morg-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: morg-bounces@ietf.org I'll get the address search document done in a week or so. Arnt _______________________________________________ MORG mailing list MORG@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/morg Note Well: http://www.ietf.org/maillist.html From morg-bounces@ietf.org Fri Jan 30 07:05:56 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: morg-archive@optimus.ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-morg-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39C0E3A6B14; Fri, 30 Jan 2009 07:05:56 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: morg@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: morg@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D68C28C295 for ; Fri, 30 Jan 2009 07:05:55 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.561 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.561 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.037, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OAfQHJjv-D3e for ; Fri, 30 Jan 2009 07:05:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from kalyani.oryx.com (kalyani.oryx.com [195.30.37.30]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 693283A6B76 for ; Fri, 30 Jan 2009 07:05:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from kalyani.oryx.com (localhost.oryx.com [127.0.0.1]) by kalyani.oryx.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C9894AC5B; Fri, 30 Jan 2009 16:05:35 +0100 (CET) Received: from arnt@oryx.com (HELO lochnagar) by kalyani.oryx.com (Archiveopteryx 3.1.0) with esmtp id 1233327935-9030-1/6/95 for morg@ietf.org; Fri, 30 Jan 2009 16:05:35 +0100 Message-Id: Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 16:06:15 +0100 From: Arnt Gulbrandsen To: Messaging Organization References: <20090130150420.5E3F93A6B3E@core3.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20090130150420.5E3F93A6B3E@core3.amsl.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [MORG] draft-ietf-morg-address-search-00 X-BeenThere: morg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Messaging Organization List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Sender: morg-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: morg-bounces@ietf.org IETF I-D Submission Tool writes: > A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-morg-address-search-00.txt has been > successfuly submitted by Arnt Gulbrandsen and posted to the IETF > repository. Have a nice weekend. Arnt _______________________________________________ MORG mailing list MORG@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/morg Note Well: http://www.ietf.org/maillist.html