From tss@iki.fi Mon Sep 28 10:46:26 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: morg@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: morg@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A43423A689B for ; Mon, 28 Sep 2009 10:46:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.389 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.389 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.390, BAYES_50=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id g7h3MyQM56t2 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 2009 10:46:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dovecot.org (dovecot.org [82.118.211.50]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66C3F3A659B for ; Mon, 28 Sep 2009 10:46:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.4.192.26] (unknown [74.205.24.229]) by dovecot.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFC4CFA89A2 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 2009 20:47:41 +0300 (EEST) From: Timo Sirainen To: morg@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-sha1"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-byGLuE2JRzjE9LVYx74d" Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 13:47:39 -0400 Message-Id: <1254160059.4794.841.camel@timo-desktop> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.26.1 Subject: [MORG] XLIST extension X-BeenThere: morg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Messaging Organization List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 17:46:26 -0000 --=-byGLuE2JRzjE9LVYx74d Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable What do you people think about Google's XLIST extension? Seems like something a lot of people are interested in implementing. Apparently it's already implemented by at least Gmail, iPhone and Thunderbird 3. Wonder if there would be point in trying to get it more standardized? The idea is basically to find what some of those "standard mailboxes" are called by the server. So instead of every client using a different "Sent Messages", "Sent Items, "Sent", etc. mailboxes the client could just look up the existing mailbox from server that has \Sent flag. The way it works now is that when client uses XLIST command instead of LIST command (identical otherwise), server can return these flags also in LIST replies: - \Drafts - \Trash - \Sent - \Spam - \Starred - \Allmail The first four are pretty standard used by most IMAP clients. \Starred is some gmail-specific I guess. \Allmail apparently could be described as a virtual mailbox containing user's all messages in all mailboxes. --=-byGLuE2JRzjE9LVYx74d Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEABECAAYFAkrA9rsACgkQyUhSUUBViskaIACgkTVrnBuByHqbfffAdOhKUngP RjcAnjq1M/iUJSTLhToEW5YF3R9WhA4u =NbJG -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-byGLuE2JRzjE9LVYx74d-- From stpeter@stpeter.im Mon Sep 28 10:48:36 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: morg@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: morg@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D17F63A69A4 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 2009 10:48:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.798 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.798 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.199, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KB7DwiJlhUlI for ; Mon, 28 Sep 2009 10:48:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from stpeter.im (stpeter.im [207.210.219.233]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 039F028C0D9 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 2009 10:48:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dhcp-64-101-72-247.cisco.com (dhcp-64-101-72-247.cisco.com [64.101.72.247]) (Authenticated sender: stpeter) by stpeter.im (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6EB794007B; Mon, 28 Sep 2009 11:49:54 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <4AC0F741.5080104@stpeter.im> Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 11:49:53 -0600 From: Peter Saint-Andre User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Macintosh/20090812) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Timo Sirainen References: <1254160059.4794.841.camel@timo-desktop> In-Reply-To: <1254160059.4794.841.camel@timo-desktop> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.96.0 OpenPGP: url=http://www.saint-andre.com/me/stpeter.asc Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: morg@ietf.org Subject: Re: [MORG] XLIST extension X-BeenThere: morg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Messaging Organization List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 17:48:36 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 9/28/09 11:47 AM, Timo Sirainen wrote: > The first four are pretty standard used by most IMAP clients. \Starred > is some gmail-specific I guess. I see a way to "star" messages in Thunderbird, but I have never used that feature and perhaps they added it to sync with Gmail. Peter - -- Peter Saint-Andre https://stpeter.im/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAkrA90EACgkQNL8k5A2w/vzxNwCfQ3Vy7kW5bz77ggYf9JUy+umY ypoAoI9vrLLlgojsUk6TY39KQq1YXnyC =aC3H -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From tony@att.com Mon Sep 28 20:33:32 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: morg@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: morg@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D39CC3A6A2F for ; Mon, 28 Sep 2009 20:33:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.355 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.355 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.244, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id k-92I0oPY7gx for ; Mon, 28 Sep 2009 20:33:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail146.messagelabs.com (mail146.messagelabs.com [216.82.241.147]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FA363A6A26 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 2009 20:33:30 -0700 (PDT) X-VirusChecked: Checked X-Env-Sender: tony@att.com X-Msg-Ref: server-13.tower-146.messagelabs.com!1254195289!4791049!1 X-StarScan-Version: 6.1.3; banners=-,-,- X-Originating-IP: [144.160.112.25] Received: (qmail 9863 invoked from network); 29 Sep 2009 03:34:49 -0000 Received: from sbcsmtp3.sbc.com (HELO tlph064.enaf.dadc.sbc.com) (144.160.112.25) by server-13.tower-146.messagelabs.com with DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA encrypted SMTP; 29 Sep 2009 03:34:49 -0000 Received: from enaf.dadc.sbc.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by tlph064.enaf.dadc.sbc.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id n8T3Ymvk016820 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 2009 22:34:48 -0500 Received: from alpd052.aldc.att.com (alpd052.aldc.att.com [130.8.42.31]) by tlph064.enaf.dadc.sbc.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id n8T3YfcO016289 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 2009 22:34:41 -0500 Received: from aldc.att.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by alpd052.aldc.att.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id n8T3YfSF031148 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 2009 23:34:41 -0400 Received: from maillennium.att.com (mailgw1.maillennium.att.com [135.25.114.99]) by alpd052.aldc.att.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id n8T3YbRP031127 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 2009 23:34:39 -0400 Received: from [135.70.45.234] (vpn-135-70-45-234.vpn.west.att.com[135.70.45.234]) by maillennium.att.com (mailgw1) with ESMTP id <20090929033436gw1006rvj7e> (Authid: tony@maillennium.att.com); Tue, 29 Sep 2009 03:34:37 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [135.70.45.234] Message-ID: <4AC1804B.9040006@att.com> Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 23:34:35 -0400 From: Tony Hansen User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Windows/20090812) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: morg@ietf.org References: <1254160059.4794.841.camel@timo-desktop> <4AC0F741.5080104@stpeter.im> In-Reply-To: <4AC0F741.5080104@stpeter.im> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [MORG] XLIST extension X-BeenThere: morg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Messaging Organization List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 03:33:32 -0000 I'm pretty certain that the Thunderbird "Starred" column has always been mapped to the IMAP \Flagged state. It's been there for years. Tony Hansen tony@att.com Peter Saint-Andre wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > On 9/28/09 11:47 AM, Timo Sirainen wrote: > >> The first four are pretty standard used by most IMAP clients. \Starred >> is some gmail-specific I guess. > > I see a way to "star" messages in Thunderbird, but I have never used > that feature and perhaps they added it to sync with Gmail. From barryleiba.mailing.lists@gmail.com Mon Sep 28 22:05:33 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: morg@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: morg@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 208393A67B1 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 2009 22:05:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.513 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.513 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.086, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yTAB3mV8z9Un for ; Mon, 28 Sep 2009 22:05:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-gx0-f212.google.com (mail-gx0-f212.google.com [209.85.217.212]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E6F83A67D3 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 2009 22:05:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by gxk4 with SMTP id 4so3468195gxk.8 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 2009 22:06:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:reply-to:in-reply-to :references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=jHEHE3kThmmzuBnO2kyZptSEQSlc2T79MbXnc2+yV6A=; b=Ae5JXcfXcM1ID/6t9NewGeC8H+qmL6ez6AbndeOzeSzYdIPoRaD+bbQgiDk65SwL3E TQP4nKy5AD+mgfcPyMIjv8A9nQUYzCz3IQsK2R8wOuIbOceBTggHQAzWsgMynmiD3/sg uQZxheCVwG85QgzjzWJRgjRMNEy6Ix/uTFado= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=Z6mSKEGqeU9fLBM/ObIV9Ejllho2oqPU6W9iBLs4br97zRvMNx2BfMaZ24QZfnhbIx LGHIVNlLvV7Xx2JWHln9hC3eFVFK7rdDBVOwZy6550neCobMZxuywKNEptxjPidU4K63 ItafkjAJ4wtiQ7/Iq77TzNMeyucEuB9G7pkrQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.150.115.8 with SMTP id n8mr9394845ybc.64.1254200809160; Mon, 28 Sep 2009 22:06:49 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1254160059.4794.841.camel@timo-desktop> References: <1254160059.4794.841.camel@timo-desktop> Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 01:06:49 -0400 Message-ID: <6c9fcc2a0909282206p720e7513o885173a57c2816ea@mail.gmail.com> From: Barry Leiba To: Timo Sirainen Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: morg@ietf.org Subject: Re: [MORG] XLIST extension X-BeenThere: morg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list Reply-To: barryleiba@computer.org List-Id: Messaging Organization List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 05:05:33 -0000 > The idea is basically to find what some of those "standard mailboxes" > are called by the server. So instead of every client using a different > "Sent Messages", "Sent Items, "Sent", etc. mailboxes the client could > just look up the existing mailbox from server that has \Sent flag. This has been proposed before. It could be done as a ListExt extension. One question would be whether Google (and other implementors) would switch to a standard version, if we standardized something that's different from what they're using. The whole point of ListExt was to eliminate the pile of LIST variants... so XLIST, specifically, would be a Bad Idea, because of that. > The way it works now is that when client uses XLIST command instead of > LIST command (identical otherwise), server can return these flags also > in LIST replies: > > =A0- \Drafts > =A0- \Trash > =A0- \Sent > =A0- \Spam > =A0- \Starred > =A0- \Allmail > > The first four are pretty standard used by most IMAP clients. \Starred > is some gmail-specific I guess. \Allmail apparently could be described > as a virtual mailbox containing user's all messages in all mailboxes. "Starred" is basically a virtual mailbox that collects all the \Flagged messages from all mailboxes. And "Allmail" isn't quite all messages in all mailboxes. It's all mail in all mailboxes *except* Sent, Drafts, Trash, and Spam... at least as Gmail has implemented it. Some of the aspects of this are certainly Gmail-specific. The proposed multi-mailbox search can give the equivalent to Starred and Allmail in existing IMAP implementations. It can also give the equivalent to Drafts and Trash, if we're flagging messages, rather than moving them around. The whole idea needs more discussion.... Some time on the Hiroshima agenda, maybe? Barry From tss@iki.fi Tue Sep 29 07:33:25 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: morg@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: morg@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9B5928C15F for ; Tue, 29 Sep 2009 07:33:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.591 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.591 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.008, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kCoX3VMTRdGu for ; Tue, 29 Sep 2009 07:33:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dovecot.org (dovecot.org [82.118.211.50]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAB8C3A6992 for ; Tue, 29 Sep 2009 07:33:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.4.192.26] (unknown [74.205.24.229]) by dovecot.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C62AA16471E4; Tue, 29 Sep 2009 17:34:43 +0300 (EEST) From: Timo Sirainen To: barryleiba@computer.org In-Reply-To: <6c9fcc2a0909282206p720e7513o885173a57c2816ea@mail.gmail.com> References: <1254160059.4794.841.camel@timo-desktop> <6c9fcc2a0909282206p720e7513o885173a57c2816ea@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-sha1"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-+0D1KpgsOHUAXZbjLiGh" Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 10:34:41 -0400 Message-Id: <1254234881.4794.969.camel@timo-desktop> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.26.1 Cc: morg@ietf.org Subject: Re: [MORG] XLIST extension X-BeenThere: morg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Messaging Organization List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 14:33:26 -0000 --=-+0D1KpgsOHUAXZbjLiGh Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, 2009-09-29 at 01:06 -0400, Barry Leiba wrote: > > The idea is basically to find what some of those "standard mailboxes" > > are called by the server. So instead of every client using a different > > "Sent Messages", "Sent Items, "Sent", etc. mailboxes the client could > > just look up the existing mailbox from server that has \Sent flag. >=20 > This has been proposed before. It could be done as a ListExt > extension. One question would be whether Google (and other > implementors) would switch to a standard version, if we standardized > something that's different from what they're using. My guess is that unless it's a really simple change, they wouldn't bother. > The whole point > of ListExt was to eliminate the pile of LIST variants... so XLIST, > specifically, would be a Bad Idea, because of that. I was thinking that we could simply add those \Sent etc. flags to a regular LIST reply, similar to how CHILDREN extension works. So I could simply make XLIST an alias for LIST. Then perhaps some day Gmail also supports both and XLIST can retire eventually.. Or I guess the other way would be to explicitly ask for those flags, like: LIST () "" * return (types) But if the point is to actually get this standard used, I think it would all depend on getting Gmail to do the change. And I don't really see them implementing the rest of LIST-EXTENDED, at least not in a standards compliant way.. > > The way it works now is that when client uses XLIST command instead of > > LIST command (identical otherwise), server can return these flags also > > in LIST replies: > > > > - \Drafts > > - \Trash > > - \Sent > > - \Spam > > - \Starred > > - \Allmail > > > > The first four are pretty standard used by most IMAP clients. \Starred > > is some gmail-specific I guess. \Allmail apparently could be described > > as a virtual mailbox containing user's all messages in all mailboxes. >=20 > "Starred" is basically a virtual mailbox that collects all the > \Flagged messages from all mailboxes. And "Allmail" isn't quite all > messages in all mailboxes. It's all mail in all mailboxes *except* > Sent, Drafts, Trash, and Spam... at least as Gmail has implemented it. OK. I've really no idea what to do about making those two a standard.. > The whole idea needs more discussion.... Some time on the Hiroshima > agenda, maybe? That would be fine by me. --=-+0D1KpgsOHUAXZbjLiGh Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEABECAAYFAkrCGwEACgkQyUhSUUBVisl0qgCgk3UYAUopsvx0UVQllRgQ0qSl FO4AnRVXljDUilOd+5Cg4W44IdGK9mz5 =g+OE -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-+0D1KpgsOHUAXZbjLiGh-- From lunohod.baikonur@googlemail.com Tue Sep 29 12:21:18 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: morg@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: morg@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C49923A68ED for ; Tue, 29 Sep 2009 12:21:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.977 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.977 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JH9e964Tcjjq for ; Tue, 29 Sep 2009 12:21:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from qw-out-2122.google.com (qw-out-2122.google.com [74.125.92.24]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7546B3A63EB for ; Tue, 29 Sep 2009 12:21:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by qw-out-2122.google.com with SMTP id 5so1210067qwi.31 for ; Tue, 29 Sep 2009 12:22:35 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:in-reply-to :references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc :content-type; bh=B5MX4B8gbArwzaFTRN9vyu47qX4e+z2US52eYA+RwiQ=; b=gD5Fy35ky9ElFptcPZiJEWttXHAqggbktZNklps8TpgxZB9i6PFAaaCTMXO5KZKuBL QN7RA2iY719Ie37kOS+QCmRZkEM9OAV9tFPZDFaVjCAdyXW8SFpYyJ2E0318bN94hz0P JUdG5p0hXQY1KhMlVRnydH8nE6VtOdzCVIJTI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; b=E59rypWI2zyMRHbzweobaMdzJ/WxG70S/6BG+CENzmYYWp+hCh03kBwL2mHsh0Rp2P 546UY1y+yHD/IJOJRL19Dm1YixYW6dbtYzqQyztfTunog8PhQV6sqdunhlt24x2Ie9hJ nYR0z1fvmUVUIi1Bit+DCT/BAKI+UFvmrk1t4= MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: lunohod.baikonur@googlemail.com Received: by 10.229.50.149 with SMTP id z21mr2231577qcf.86.1254252155474; Tue, 29 Sep 2009 12:22:35 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <6c9fcc2a0909282206p720e7513o885173a57c2816ea@mail.gmail.com> References: <1254160059.4794.841.camel@timo-desktop> <6c9fcc2a0909282206p720e7513o885173a57c2816ea@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 23:22:35 +0400 X-Google-Sender-Auth: e4193c417cd46793 Message-ID: <29d3c4cb0909291222w314c5d74l53dd4c52292d12c9@mail.gmail.com> From: Alexey Melnikov To: barryleiba@computer.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: Timo Sirainen , morg@ietf.org Subject: Re: [MORG] XLIST extension X-BeenThere: morg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Messaging Organization List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 19:21:18 -0000 On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 9:06 AM, Barry Leiba wrote: [...] > The whole idea needs more discussion.... Some time on the Hiroshima > agenda, maybe? Yes. Let's have at least 1 hour slot for MORG in Hiroshima. From root@core3.amsl.com Tue Sep 29 15:30:03 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: morg@ietf.org Delivered-To: morg@core3.amsl.com Received: by core3.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 0) id 26FA23A6407; Tue, 29 Sep 2009 15:30:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20090929223003.26FA23A6407@core3.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 15:30:01 -0700 (PDT) Cc: morg@ietf.org Subject: [MORG] I-D Action:draft-ietf-morg-sortdisplay-01.txt X-BeenThere: morg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Messaging Organization List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 22:30:03 -0000 --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Message Organization Working Group of the IETF. Title : Display-based Address Sorting for the IMAP4 SORT Extension Author(s) : D. Karp Filename : draft-ietf-morg-sortdisplay-01.txt Pages : 6 Date : 2009-09-29 This document describes an IMAP protocol extension enabling server- side message sorting based on the commonly-displayed portion of the >From and To header fields. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-morg-sortdisplay-01.txt Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-morg-sortdisplay-01.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2009-09-29151927.I-D@ietf.org> --NextPart-- From dkarp@zimbra.com Wed Sep 30 09:49:30 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: morg@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: morg@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 530C03A685F for ; Wed, 30 Sep 2009 09:49:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1xkpagwYTVsp for ; Wed, 30 Sep 2009 09:49:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mta02.zimbra.com (mta02.zimbra.com [207.126.229.144]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F7C53A67BE for ; Wed, 30 Sep 2009 09:49:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mta02.zimbra.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 447E9C7808F for ; Wed, 30 Sep 2009 09:50:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.com Received: from mta02.zimbra.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mta02.zimbra.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eBMCa6Zk8SSt for ; Wed, 30 Sep 2009 09:50:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dogfood.zimbra.com (dogfood.zimbra.com [207.126.229.140]) by mta02.zimbra.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0026EC78088 for ; Wed, 30 Sep 2009 09:50:51 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 09:50:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Dan Karp To: morg Message-ID: <426893499.2601254329451832.JavaMail.root@dogfood.zimbra.com> In-Reply-To: <20090929223003.26FA23A6407@core3.amsl.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Zimbra 6.0.1_GA_1816.RHEL4_64 (ZimbraWebClient - SAF3 (Mac)/6.0.1_GA_1816.RHEL4_64) Subject: Re: [MORG] I-D Action:draft-ietf-morg-sortdisplay-01.txt X-BeenThere: morg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Messaging Organization List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 16:49:30 -0000 > Title : Display-based Address Sorting for the IMAP4 SORT Extension > Author(s) : D. Karp > Filename : draft-ietf-morg-sortdisplay-01.txt > Pages : 6 > Date : 2009-09-29 > > This document describes an IMAP protocol extension enabling server- > side message sorting based on the commonly-displayed portion of the > From and To header fields. > > A URL for this Internet-Draft is: > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-morg-sortdisplay-01.txt In response to MORG requests, I've revised the draft to include DISPLAYTO as well as DISPLAYFROM and changed the CAPABILITY string to "SORT=DISPLAY". If you have a moment, please take a look at this revision of the draft and let me know how it sits. (Especially welcome would be a sanity-check of the logic for determining the DISPLAY sort value of an RFC 5322 mailbox.) Thanks much. From tss@iki.fi Wed Sep 30 10:34:01 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: morg@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: morg@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 110EA3A69AA for ; Wed, 30 Sep 2009 10:34:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.793 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.793 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.806, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AcrkC81TmEUA for ; Wed, 30 Sep 2009 10:34:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dovecot.org (dovecot.org [82.118.211.50]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A22D3A67E4 for ; Wed, 30 Sep 2009 10:33:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.4.192.26] (unknown [74.205.24.229]) by dovecot.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 626A5FA8C4B; Wed, 30 Sep 2009 20:35:19 +0300 (EEST) From: Timo Sirainen To: Dan Karp In-Reply-To: <426893499.2601254329451832.JavaMail.root@dogfood.zimbra.com> References: <426893499.2601254329451832.JavaMail.root@dogfood.zimbra.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-sha1"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-SDSZfUc8AOv9kzS/jaEp" Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 13:35:17 -0400 Message-Id: <1254332117.4794.1051.camel@timo-desktop> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.26.1 Cc: morg Subject: Re: [MORG] I-D Action:draft-ietf-morg-sortdisplay-01.txt X-BeenThere: morg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Messaging Organization List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 17:34:01 -0000 --=-SDSZfUc8AOv9kzS/jaEp Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > o If the mailbox contains an [RFC5322] display-name, replace each > instance of [RFC5322] CFWS in the display-name with a single > space, trim leading and trailing whitespace, and decode any > quoted-strings and [RFC2047] encoded-words. If the resulting > string is not the empty string, use it as the sort value for the > mailbox. Is the ordering right? Maybe it should be more like: 1. Decode RFC 2047 encoded-words 2. Decode quoted-strings 3. Trim away extra whitespace Or is the whitespace significant in encoded-words and quoted-strings? > o Otherwise, the message's sort value is the DISPLAY sort value of > the first mailbox in its From header. Minor thing: Everywhere else it says "[RFC5322] mailbox", except here. --=-SDSZfUc8AOv9kzS/jaEp Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEABECAAYFAkrDltUACgkQyUhSUUBVislNywCcDrr93dgXhsv34v+D67LzF1Pd nrIAn3ntiJgyDL3TQHIt8J4SBhOCkLkK =+7Pd -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-SDSZfUc8AOv9kzS/jaEp-- From dkarp@zimbra.com Wed Sep 30 12:44:12 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: morg@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: morg@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 654FE3A6982 for ; Wed, 30 Sep 2009 12:44:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VXF3n4IQy3MJ for ; Wed, 30 Sep 2009 12:44:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mta02.zimbra.com (mta02.zimbra.com [207.126.229.144]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DE183A6922 for ; Wed, 30 Sep 2009 12:44:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mta02.zimbra.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2ECAAC78085; Wed, 30 Sep 2009 12:45:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.com Received: from mta02.zimbra.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mta02.zimbra.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EIdAAfA0yeOy; Wed, 30 Sep 2009 12:45:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dogfood.zimbra.com (dogfood.zimbra.com [207.126.229.140]) by mta02.zimbra.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84B91C7803F; Wed, 30 Sep 2009 12:45:31 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 12:45:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Dan Karp To: Timo Sirainen Message-ID: <1750369173.4531254339931381.JavaMail.root@dogfood.zimbra.com> In-Reply-To: <1254332117.4794.1051.camel@timo-desktop> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Zimbra 6.0.1_GA_1816.RHEL4_64 (ZimbraWebClient - SAF3 (Mac)/6.0.1_GA_1816.RHEL4_64) Cc: morg Subject: Re: [MORG] I-D Action:draft-ietf-morg-sortdisplay-01.txt X-BeenThere: morg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Messaging Organization List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 19:44:12 -0000 > > o If the mailbox contains an [RFC5322] display-name, replace each > > instance of [RFC5322] CFWS in the display-name with a single > > space, trim leading and trailing whitespace, and decode any > > quoted-strings and [RFC2047] encoded-words. If the resulting > > string is not the empty string, use it as the sort value for > > the mailbox. > > Is the ordering right? Maybe it should be more like: > > 1. Decode RFC 2047 encoded-words > 2. Decode quoted-strings > 3. Trim away extra whitespace > > Or is the whitespace significant in encoded-words and quoted-strings? Well, you have to strip comments (the 'C' part of "CFWS") before handling encoded-words and quoted-strings. Whether to also normalize whitespace after doing the encoded-word and quoted-string decoding is a separate question. Both encoded-words and quoted-strings do indeed consider whitespace to be significant, but we have the right to override that when calculating the sort value if we so desire. > > o Otherwise, the message's sort value is the DISPLAY sort value of > > the first mailbox in its From header. > > Minor thing: Everywhere else it says "[RFC5322] mailbox", except here. Well, here and the previous paragraph that you quoted. I tried to mention the RFC when referencing part of its ABNF just once per section/ subsection/list. But I have no problem in using the footnote in each case... From arnt@gulbrandsen.priv.no Wed Sep 30 13:01:18 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: morg@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: morg@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 254193A689E for ; Wed, 30 Sep 2009 13:01:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.087 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.087 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.511, BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WrD4E9cQsxzq for ; Wed, 30 Sep 2009 13:01:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from strange.aox.org (strange.aox.org [80.244.248.170]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 014C23A69C0 for ; Wed, 30 Sep 2009 13:01:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fri.gulbrandsen.priv.no (kalyani.aox.org [79.140.39.164]) by strange.aox.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61DD5FA04A5; Wed, 30 Sep 2009 20:02:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: from arnt@gulbrandsen.priv.no (HELO lochnagar.gulbrandsen.priv.no) by fri.gulbrandsen.priv.no (Archiveopteryx 3.1.0) with esmtp id 1254340826-53805-53805/5/1 (4 recipients); Wed, 30 Sep 2009 22:00:26 +0200 Message-Id: <+8g7epUQ0se2u75+X/B6PQ.md5@lochnagar.gulbrandsen.priv.no> Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 21:50:29 +0200 From: Arnt Gulbrandsen To: morg@ietf.org References: <426893499.2601254329451832.JavaMail.root@dogfood.zimbra.com> <1254332117.4794.1051.camel@timo-desktop> In-Reply-To: <1254332117.4794.1051.camel@timo-desktop> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 13:14:01 -0700 Cc: Timo Sirainen Subject: Re: [MORG] I-D Action:draft-ietf-morg-sortdisplay-01.txt X-BeenThere: morg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: Messaging Organization List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 20:01:18 -0000 Timo Sirainen writes: >> o If the mailbox contains an [RFC5322] display-name, replace each >> instance of [RFC5322] CFWS in the display-name with a single >> space, trim leading and trailing whitespace, and decode any >> quoted-strings and [RFC2047] encoded-words. If the resulting >> string is not the empty string, use it as the sort value for >> the mailbox. > > Is the ordering right? Maybe it should be more like: > > 1. Decode RFC 2047 encoded-words > 2. Decode quoted-strings > 3. Trim away extra whitespace I don't think it really matters. In real life you want to do a little of both, if you care about catering to the varieties of broken 2047 encoding that float around the net. I'd prefer wording that handwaves around all that. FWIW, I also trim away some other things, which I wouldn't like to add to the document, e.g. outlookisms and phish vomit: To: "'tss@iki.fi'" From: "service@paypal.com" Arnt