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From: "Wijnen, Bert (Bert)" <bwijnen@lucent.com>
To: "'Martin Dubuc'" <dubuc.consulting@rogers.com>,
        "Mpls (E-mail)"
	 <mpls@UU.NET>
Subject: MIB Doctor review:draft-ietf-mpls-telink-mib-03.txt
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 20:43:18 +0200 
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- Interesting that title page claims that doc expires feb 2003?
  You porobably mean feb 2004

- I get this WMICng warning:
  W: f(telink.mi2), (1564,19) MIN-ACCESS value identical to access 
     specified for "teLinkBandwidthUnreserved"
  Seems to me you can just remove that MIN-ACCESS from the MODULE
  COMPLIANCE.

- I see
    TeLinkSonetSdhIndication ::= TEXTUAL-CONVENTION
      STATUS       current
      DESCRIPTION
          "SONET/SDH indication type."
      SYNTAX       INTEGER {
                    standard(0),
                    arbitrary(1)
                }
   Since we normallyh do not start with zero (but with 1), I assume
   there is a reason you start with zero. Could that reason be described
   and is there a doc that explains this, so that you refernece it?

NITS:

- I see
    teLinkGroups
       OBJECT IDENTIFIER ::= { teLinkConformance 1 }

    teLinkCompliances
       OBJECT IDENTIFIER ::= { teLinkConformance 2 }
  Normally we do it the other way around, first Compliances, then Groups,
  See page 35, appendix D of draft-ietf-ops-mib-review-guidelines-02.txt

- I see in OBJECT-GROUP statement things like:
     DESCRIPTION
          "Collection of objects needed for the monitoring of
           resources associated with TE links."
  I would think the objects *at least a subset) are also usefull for
  configuration. How about:
     DESCRIPTION
          "Collection of objects for management of 
           resources associated with TE links."
  Most OBJECT-GROUP descritpion clauses have similar "problem".

- I see:
    teLinkModuleFullCompliance MODULE-COMPLIANCE
      STATUS current
      DESCRIPTION
       "Compliance statement for agents that support the
        configuration and monitoring of TE Link MIB module."
   Mmmm. I would word it a bit different:
       "Compliance statement for agents that support read-create
        so that both configuration and monitoring of TE Links can
        be accomplished via this MIB module."
   Matter of taste I guess.

- I see:
    teLinkModuleReadOnlyCompliance MODULE-COMPLIANCE
      STATUS current
      DESCRIPTION
       "Compliance statement for agents that support the
        monitoring of TE link MIB module."
      MODULE -- this module

      -- The mandatory groups have to be implemented
      -- by all devices supporting TE links. However, they may all
      -- be supported as read-only objects in the case where manual
      -- configuration is unsupported.

      MANDATORY-GROUPS    { teLinkGroup,
                            teLinkBandwidthGroup,
                            componentLinkBandwidthGroup }

   It seems to me that that all of those 4 comment lines are redundant.
   The idea of the MODULE-COMPLIANCE statements is that they are both
   human and machine readable.

- I see hyphenation. That is something the RFC-Editor does not want/like.

- Section 6 starts with:
    6.  Brief Description of MIB Objects

       Sections 6.1-6.4 describe objects pertaining to TE links.  The MIB
       objects were derived from the link bundling document [BUNDLING].
  How abaout the section 6.5-6.7 ??

Thanks,
Bert 


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From: "Prabakaran T Sampath" <prabakarts@future.futsoft.com>
To: <bhavesh_modi@da-iict.org>, <mpls-ops@mplsrc.com>
Cc: <mpls@UU.NET>, "'prabakarts'" <prabakarts@future.futsoft.com>
Subject: RE: [MPLS-OPS]: Why Merging?
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 16:28:58 +0530
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Hi Bhavesh Modi,

Whether we are distributing same Labels or different Labels to its upstream
LSRs,
if the LSR is merge capable and if the outgoing interface is same for the
upstream Labels(same or different) then as per RFC 3031, Section 3.26 - we
do merging (If there is any Hardware limitation exists then we got to
consider that too while doing merging).

         incoming labels             Switch	outgoing label
	                              __________
	--------- 10-----------------|          |
	--------- 25-----------------| ATM/MPLS |======10=========
	--------- 11-----------------|__________|

         incoming labels             Switch	outgoing label
	                              __________
	--------- 15-----------------|          |
	--------- 15-----------------| ATM/MPLS |======10=========
	--------- 15-----------------|__________|


Thanks and regards,
Prabakaran T.S.
Future Software Limited,
480-481, Anna Salai,
Chennai - 600035, India.
Web: www.futsoft.com
email: prabakarts@future.futsoft.com
Off Phone: 91-44-24330550 - Extn: 337
-------------------------------------


-----Original Message-----
From: Bhavesh Modi [mailto:bhavesh_modi@da-iict.org]
Sent: Tuesday, 2 September 2003 2:15 PM
To: mpls-ops@mplsrc.com
Subject: [MPLS-OPS]: Why Merging?



Hi

Thanks for answers/suggestions for my previous question.

One more question - pls bear with me.

We need merging when an LSR distributes differenet labels to its
upstream LSRs. But if an LSR distributes a same label to all upstream
nodes, then we don't need merging. So why  we need to give different
labels to different upstream LSRs? Even in case of ATM we can
distinguish the packets with same label by their different interfaces.

Pls help me clerifying this point.

-Bhavesh Modi
MTech-ICT
DA-IICT.
Gandhinagar

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Reply-To: <tnadeau@cisco.com>
From: "Thomas D. Nadeau" <tnadeau@cisco.com>
To: "'Wijnen, Bert \(Bert\)'" <bwijnen@lucent.com>,
        "'Mpls \(E-mail\)'" <mpls@UU.NET>
Cc: <mail@stefan-winter.de>
Subject: RE: error in draft-ietf-mpls-te-mib-12.txt
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 12:25:09 -0400
Organization: Cisco Systems, inc.
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	Yes, I caught this one just after I published
the TE MIB, and thought that I could re-publish
immediately version 12. Apparently the repository
ignored my second posting. Is the process now to
re-issue a new revision with this fixed post 
the last call period?

	--Tom



> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-mpls@UU.NET [mailto:owner-mpls@UU.NET] On Behalf 
> Of Wijnen, Bert (Bert)
> Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2003 4:43 PM
> To: Mpls (E-mail)
> Cc: mail@stefan-winter.de
> Subject: FW: error in draft-ietf-mpls-te-mib-12.txt
> 
> 
> MPLS TE MIB authors... a comment that came back from 
> IETF Last Call
> 
> Thanks,
> Bert 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stefan Winter [mailto:	
> Sent: donderdag 28 augustus 2003 11:00
> To: iesg@ietf.org
> Subject: error in draft-ietf-mpls-te-mib-12.txt
> 
> 
> Hello,
> 
> there is a clash in the DESCRIPTION clause of the MIB 
> definition of the two 
> entities
> 
> mplsTunnelHopPathOptionIndex (mplsTunnelHopEntry 2) and 
> mplsTunnelHopIndex (mplsTunnelHopEntry 3)
> 
> Both are described as "secondary index into this table", but 
> mplsTunnelHopIndex is actually the "tertiary index into this 
> table". This should be corrected bfore releasing this draft as PS.
> 
> Greetings,
> 
> Stefan Winter
> 



From owner-mpls@UU.NET  Tue Sep  2 12:43:19 2003
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From: "Wijnen, Bert (Bert)" <bwijnen@lucent.com>
To: "'tnadeau@cisco.com'" <tnadeau@cisco.com>,
        "Wijnen, Bert (Bert)"
	 <bwijnen@lucent.com>,
        "'Mpls (E-mail)'" <mpls@UU.NET>
Cc: mail@stefan-winter.de
Subject: RE: error in draft-ietf-mpls-te-mib-12.txt
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 18:09:15 +0200 
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Yep. And I beleiev Last call ends on 9th of Sept, right?

Thanks,
Bert 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Thomas D. Nadeau [mailto:tnadeau@cisco.com]
> Sent: dinsdag 2 september 2003 18:25
> To: 'Wijnen, Bert (Bert)'; 'Mpls (E-mail)'
> Cc: mail@stefan-winter.de
> Subject: RE: error in draft-ietf-mpls-te-mib-12.txt
> 
> 
> 
> 	Yes, I caught this one just after I published
> the TE MIB, and thought that I could re-publish
> immediately version 12. Apparently the repository
> ignored my second posting. Is the process now to
> re-issue a new revision with this fixed post 
> the last call period?
> 
> 	--Tom
> 
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-mpls@UU.NET [mailto:owner-mpls@UU.NET] On Behalf 
> > Of Wijnen, Bert (Bert)
> > Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2003 4:43 PM
> > To: Mpls (E-mail)
> > Cc: mail@stefan-winter.de
> > Subject: FW: error in draft-ietf-mpls-te-mib-12.txt
> > 
> > 
> > MPLS TE MIB authors... a comment that came back from 
> > IETF Last Call
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > Bert 
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Stefan Winter [mailto:	
> > Sent: donderdag 28 augustus 2003 11:00
> > To: iesg@ietf.org
> > Subject: error in draft-ietf-mpls-te-mib-12.txt
> > 
> > 
> > Hello,
> > 
> > there is a clash in the DESCRIPTION clause of the MIB 
> > definition of the two 
> > entities
> > 
> > mplsTunnelHopPathOptionIndex (mplsTunnelHopEntry 2) and 
> > mplsTunnelHopIndex (mplsTunnelHopEntry 3)
> > 
> > Both are described as "secondary index into this table", but 
> > mplsTunnelHopIndex is actually the "tertiary index into this 
> > table". This should be corrected bfore releasing this draft as PS.
> > 
> > Greetings,
> > 
> > Stefan Winter
> > 
> 


From owner-mpls@UU.NET  Tue Sep  2 12:53:43 2003
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Reply-To: <prabakarts@future.futsoft.com>
From: "Prabakaran T Sampath" <prabakarts@future.futsoft.com>
To: "'Alok  Dube'" <alokdube1978@rediffmail.com>, <mpls-ops@mplsrc.com>,
        <mpls@UU.NET>
Cc: <bhavesh_modi@da-iict.org>, "'prabakarts'" <prabakarts@future.futsoft.com>
Subject: RE: RE: [MPLS-OPS]: Why Merging?
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 21:49:10 +0530
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Hi Alok,

Yes, what ever you say is correct.  I meant for "n" no. of incoming
flows sending on the same outgoing interface with a single
label(we got to take care of all the h/w limitations, Traffic
engineering parameters if required like BW, cell interleave problem
in case of ATM, etc.,).  If your hardware supports LSP stitching
you can do so, but I guess, there is no Label merging concept
involved in LSP stitching.

In my understanding, a typical example for LSP stitching is,
when 2 LSPs fall in two different TED areas then we can stitch
the 2 different LSPs using cross-connect in the intermediate
router, so that from the ingress end if we do encapsulation,
we can do the decaptulation at the egress end.

For eg:
                                           |       |
        Traffic engineering domain 1       |       |         Traffic
engineering domain 2
                                           |       |
                 ----LSP 1-------------->  |       |----LSP 1--------->
        Router A ------------------------- Router B ------------------
Router C
                 ------Stitched LSP ---------------------------------->
                                           |       |
                                           |       |

In the above example, if we do not have LSP stitching means,
If we sending packet from Router A to Router C is encapsulated
on Router A (the ingress router for the first LSP), decapsulated
on Router B (the egress router), and then re-encapsulated on
Router B (the ingress router for the second LSP). With LSP stitching,
we connect LSP1 and LSP2 into a single, stitched LSP,
which means that the packet is encapsulated once (on Router A)
and decapsulated once (on Router C).

Juniper supports Circuit Cross Connections using which
you can stitch 2 LSPs. See more info at

https://www.juniper.net/techpubs/software/junos/junos57/swconfig57-mpls-apps
/html/ccc-tcc-config12.html

I hope this helps..!

Thanks and regards,
Prabakaran T.S.
Future Software Limited,
480-481, Anna Salai,
Chennai - 600035, India.
Web: www.futsoft.com
email: prabakarts@future.futsoft.com
Off Phone: 91-44-24330550 - Extn: 337
-------------------------------------


-----Original Message-----
From: Alok Dube [mailto:alokdube1978@rediffmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, 2 September 2003 8:58 PM
To: Prabakaran T Sampath
Cc: bhavesh_modi@da-iict.org; mpls-ops@mplsrc.com
Subject: Re: RE: [MPLS-OPS]: Why Merging?



just a general question,


On Tue, 02 Sep 2003 Prabakaran T Sampath wrote :
>Hi Bhavesh Modi,
>
>Whether we are distributing same Labels or different Labels to
>its upstream
>LSRs,
>if the LSR is merge capable and if the outgoing interface is same
>for the
>upstream Labels(same or different) then as per RFC 3031, Section
>3.26 - we
>do merging (If there is any Hardware limitation exists then we
>got to
>consider that too while doing merging).


====> does this mean that where one can merge Labels (I assume you
mean no stacking but aggregating 10 flows into 1 flow kinds) one
can also "stitch LSPS?

-thanks
Alok

___________________________________________________
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Subject: RE: error in draft-ietf-mpls-te-mib-12.txt
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> Yep. And I beleiev Last call ends on 9th of Sept, right?

	Alex can confirm, but I think you are right.

	--Tom



> 
> Thanks,
> Bert 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Thomas D. Nadeau [mailto:tnadeau@cisco.com]
> > Sent: dinsdag 2 september 2003 18:25
> > To: 'Wijnen, Bert (Bert)'; 'Mpls (E-mail)'
> > Cc: mail@stefan-winter.de
> > Subject: RE: error in draft-ietf-mpls-te-mib-12.txt
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 	Yes, I caught this one just after I published
> > the TE MIB, and thought that I could re-publish
> > immediately version 12. Apparently the repository
> > ignored my second posting. Is the process now to
> > re-issue a new revision with this fixed post
> > the last call period?
> > 
> > 	--Tom
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-mpls@UU.NET [mailto:owner-mpls@UU.NET] On Behalf
> > > Of Wijnen, Bert (Bert)
> > > Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2003 4:43 PM
> > > To: Mpls (E-mail)
> > > Cc: mail@stefan-winter.de
> > > Subject: FW: error in draft-ietf-mpls-te-mib-12.txt
> > > 
> > > 
> > > MPLS TE MIB authors... a comment that came back from
> > > IETF Last Call
> > > 
> > > Thanks,
> > > Bert
> > > 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Stefan Winter [mailto:	
> > > Sent: donderdag 28 augustus 2003 11:00
> > > To: iesg@ietf.org
> > > Subject: error in draft-ietf-mpls-te-mib-12.txt
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Hello,
> > > 
> > > there is a clash in the DESCRIPTION clause of the MIB
> > > definition of the two 
> > > entities
> > > 
> > > mplsTunnelHopPathOptionIndex (mplsTunnelHopEntry 2) and
> > > mplsTunnelHopIndex (mplsTunnelHopEntry 3)
> > > 
> > > Both are described as "secondary index into this table", but
> > > mplsTunnelHopIndex is actually the "tertiary index into this 
> > > table". This should be corrected bfore releasing this draft as PS.
> > > 
> > > Greetings,
> > > 
> > > Stefan Winter
> > > 
> > 
> 



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Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 16:20:50 -0400
To: David Meyer <dmm@1-4-5.net>
From: "Andrew G. Malis" <andy.malis@tellabs.com>
Subject: Re: wg last call on: draft-ietf-mpls-in-ip-or-gre-02.txt -
  update
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Hi Dave,

MPLS in IP is already in the draft.

I'm curious what additional functionality MPLS in L2TPv3 would get you that 
GRE or direct IP encapsulation doesn't already provide.

Cheers,
Andy

-------

At 8/29/2003 10:26 AM -0700, David Meyer wrote:
>One thing that would appear to be useful is to generalize the
>draft just a bit to  mpls-in-ip-encapsulation and include L2TPv3.
>
>Dave
>
>On Fri, Aug 29, 2003 at 02:38:58PM +0200, Loa Andersson wrote:
> >> Working Group,
> >>
> >> when this WG Last Call was initiated it turned out that
> >> we had a temporary outage on the MPLS mail archive, this
> >> outage was still in effect when I resent the last call.
> >>
> >> However - the mail did go through to the mailing-list,
> >> so it is my take that the last call has been properly
> >> announced and still ends on:
> >>
> >> Monday September 9 23.59 Swedish time.
> >>
> >> Please send your commetns to the mailing list.
> >>
> >>
> >> /Loa



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Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 09:36:50 +0200
From: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.se>
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To: mpls@UU.NET
CC: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.se>
Subject: Re: Invitation to discuss: "P2MP problem statement"
References: <EB3C1366E543D5119428009027E326ED0AF83676@il06exm02.corp.mot.com> <3F3AAED7.9030407@pi.se>
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Working Group,

it is almost three weeks since I sent this "invitation to
discuss the P2MP probelm statement". The tendency has been
mostly in favor of adding p2mp mpls as a new milestone to
our charter, but the discussion has not been that active,
so it is hard to decide one way or another. Apart from the
authors (the author groups is about 12 people) it is only
one person that has taken part in the discussion.

I'm aware of that we had a mailing list problem, but it is
my take that the mails gone through eventually, if you think
this is wrong please resend.

Before deciding I would like a quick "show of hands", just
positive or negative. If you have reasons not to send your
response to the list, you may send it directly to me.

I plan to make the call mid-next week.

/Loa

Loa Andersson wrote:

> Alan + both teams,
> 
> thanks for preparing this!
> 
> Working Group,
> 
> below you will find the p2mp problem statement prepared by the
> autors behind the drafts:
>    draft-yasukawa-mpls-rsvp-p2mp-02.txt
>    draft-raggarwa-mpls-p2mp-te-00.txt
> 
> I would like to have your response on
> 
> 1. the content of the problem statement
> 2. whether the mpls working group should ask the ADs
>    that a new milestone om p2mp mpls should be added
>    to our charter
> 
> If there is support we plan to take this as an separate item
> (not include it in the more general charter update) to the
> ADs. Again this is a question for which I would like boths
> the pros and cons to speak up. Silence will not be interpreted
> (one way or another).
> 
> /Loa
> 
> Kullberg Alan-G19424 wrote:
> 
>> Loa & George,
>>
>> Below is a problem statement for point-to-multipoint using MPLS.
>> This problem statement has been prepared jointly by the authors
>> of the drafts:
>>   draft-yasukawa-mpls-rsvp-p2mp-02.txt
>>   draft-raggarwa-mpls-p2mp-te-00.txt
>>
>> Please use this problem statement as a basis to get the MPLS WG
>> charter updated to include P2MP work.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Alan
>>
>> #########################
>>
>> Problem statement
>>
>>
>> Content Distribution (CD), Interactive multi-media (IMM), and VPN 
>> multicast
>> are
>> applications that are best supported with multicast capabilities.
>>
>> IP Multicast provides P2MP communication. However, there are no Traffic
>> Engineering (TE) capabilities or QoS guarantees with existing IP 
>> multicast
>> protocols.  Note that diff-serv combined with IP multicast routing is not
>> sufficient for P2MP applications for many of the same reasons that it 
>> is not
>> sufficient for unicast applications - TE and CSPF are required to 
>> enable and
>> scale the intelligent management of network resources, to prevent
>> congestion, and
>> to enable sub-second rerouting around network failures.
>>
>> One possible solution would be to setup multiple P2P TE LSPs, one to 
>> each of
>> the
>> required  egress PEs. This requires replicating incoming packets to 
>> all the
>> P2P
>> LSPs at the ingress PE to accommodate multipoint communication. This 
>> is sub-
>> optimal. It places the replication burden on the ingress PE and hence has
>> very
>> poor scaling characteristics. It also wastes bandwidth resources, 
>> memory and
>> MPLS
>> (e.g. label) resources in the network.
>>
>> Hence, to provide TE for a P2MP application in an efficient manner in a
>> large
>> scale environemnt, P2MP TE mechanisms are required.  Existing MPLS P2P TE
>> mechanisms have to be enhanced to support P2MP TE LSP setup.
>>
>> We propose that MPLS be enhanced to setup P2MP TE LSPs. This should be
>> achieved
>> without running a multicast routing protocol in the network core and with
>> maximum
>> re-use of the existing MPLS protocols. A P2MP LSP will be setup with TE
>> constraints and will allow efficient packet replication at various 
>> branching
>> points in the network. RSVP-TE will be used for setting up a P2MP LSP 
>> with
>> enhancements to existing P2P TE LSP procedures. The P2MP TE LSP setup
>> mechanism
>> will include the ability to add/remove receivers to/from an existing P2MP
>> LSP.
>>
>> The MPLS WG will specify only how to setup a P2MP TE LSP. The usage of 
>> this
>> will
>> be application dependent.
>>
>> (Milestones)
>>
>> To produce a requirement draft that specifies the scope, requirements, 
>> and
>> issues
>> to resolve for this enhancement by Minneapolis 2003 meeting.
>>
>> To produce a small number of solution draft(s) which specify protocol
>> extensions,
>> enhancements and mechanisms to fill the requirement and solve the above
>> problem
>> by spring 2004 IETF meeting.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  (Example)
>>
>>      Consider the following figure.
>>
>>                         Source 1 (S1)
>>                                |
>>                               PE1
>>                              |   |
>>                              |   |
>>                  R2----PE3--P1   P2---PE2--Receiver 1 (R1)
>>                              |
>>                             PE4----R3
>>                              |
>>                              |
>>                             R4
>>
>>                            Figure 1.
>>
>>       The above figure shows PE1, PE2, PE3 and PE4. PE1 is attached to a
>> traffic
>> source that is generating traffic for a P2MP application. PE2, PE3 and 
>> PE4
>> are
>> attached to receivers that are interested in receiving traffic for the
>> application. The following are the objectives that we wish to achieve:
>>
>>       a) Set up a P2MP TE LSP from PE1 to PE2, PE3 and PE4.
>>       b) Packet replication should be efficient. In this case, the branch
>> node P1
>>          should replicate incoming packets and send them to PE3 and PE4.
>>       c) The P2MP TE LSP should be setup by enhancing existing RSVP-TE 
>> P2P
>>          procedures and without running a multicast routing protocol 
>> in the
>>          network core.
>>
>>
> 

-- 
Loa Andersson

Mobile          +46 739 81 21 64
Email           loa@pi.se




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Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 06:07:23 -0400
To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.se>
From: Jean Philippe Vasseur <jvasseur@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: Invitation to discuss: "P2MP problem statement"
Cc: mpls@UU.NET, Loa Andersson <loa@pi.se>
In-Reply-To: <3F559A12.5080500@pi.se>
References: <3F3AAED7.9030407@pi.se>
 <EB3C1366E543D5119428009027E326ED0AF83676@il06exm02.corp.mot.com>
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Hi Loa,

Not sure my mails has been received ... So I just resend: strongly in favor.

JP.

At 09:36 AM 9/3/2003 +0200, Loa Andersson wrote:
>Working Group,
>
>it is almost three weeks since I sent this "invitation to
>discuss the P2MP probelm statement". The tendency has been
>mostly in favor of adding p2mp mpls as a new milestone to
>our charter, but the discussion has not been that active,
>so it is hard to decide one way or another. Apart from the
>authors (the author groups is about 12 people) it is only
>one person that has taken part in the discussion.
>
>I'm aware of that we had a mailing list problem, but it is
>my take that the mails gone through eventually, if you think
>this is wrong please resend.
>
>Before deciding I would like a quick "show of hands", just
>positive or negative. If you have reasons not to send your
>response to the list, you may send it directly to me.
>
>I plan to make the call mid-next week.
>
>/Loa
>
>Loa Andersson wrote:
>
>>Alan + both teams,
>>thanks for preparing this!
>>Working Group,
>>below you will find the p2mp problem statement prepared by the
>>autors behind the drafts:
>>    draft-yasukawa-mpls-rsvp-p2mp-02.txt
>>    draft-raggarwa-mpls-p2mp-te-00.txt
>>I would like to have your response on
>>1. the content of the problem statement
>>2. whether the mpls working group should ask the ADs
>>    that a new milestone om p2mp mpls should be added
>>    to our charter
>>If there is support we plan to take this as an separate item
>>(not include it in the more general charter update) to the
>>ADs. Again this is a question for which I would like boths
>>the pros and cons to speak up. Silence will not be interpreted
>>(one way or another).
>>/Loa
>>Kullberg Alan-G19424 wrote:
>>
>>>Loa & George,
>>>
>>>Below is a problem statement for point-to-multipoint using MPLS.
>>>This problem statement has been prepared jointly by the authors
>>>of the drafts:
>>>   draft-yasukawa-mpls-rsvp-p2mp-02.txt
>>>   draft-raggarwa-mpls-p2mp-te-00.txt
>>>
>>>Please use this problem statement as a basis to get the MPLS WG
>>>charter updated to include P2MP work.
>>>
>>>Thanks,
>>>Alan
>>>
>>>#########################
>>>
>>>Problem statement
>>>
>>>
>>>Content Distribution (CD), Interactive multi-media (IMM), and VPN multicast
>>>are
>>>applications that are best supported with multicast capabilities.
>>>
>>>IP Multicast provides P2MP communication. However, there are no Traffic
>>>Engineering (TE) capabilities or QoS guarantees with existing IP multicast
>>>protocols.  Note that diff-serv combined with IP multicast routing is not
>>>sufficient for P2MP applications for many of the same reasons that it is not
>>>sufficient for unicast applications - TE and CSPF are required to enable and
>>>scale the intelligent management of network resources, to prevent
>>>congestion, and
>>>to enable sub-second rerouting around network failures.
>>>
>>>One possible solution would be to setup multiple P2P TE LSPs, one to each of
>>>the
>>>required  egress PEs. This requires replicating incoming packets to all the
>>>P2P
>>>LSPs at the ingress PE to accommodate multipoint communication. This is sub-
>>>optimal. It places the replication burden on the ingress PE and hence has
>>>very
>>>poor scaling characteristics. It also wastes bandwidth resources, memory and
>>>MPLS
>>>(e.g. label) resources in the network.
>>>
>>>Hence, to provide TE for a P2MP application in an efficient manner in a
>>>large
>>>scale environemnt, P2MP TE mechanisms are required.  Existing MPLS P2P TE
>>>mechanisms have to be enhanced to support P2MP TE LSP setup.
>>>
>>>We propose that MPLS be enhanced to setup P2MP TE LSPs. This should be
>>>achieved
>>>without running a multicast routing protocol in the network core and with
>>>maximum
>>>re-use of the existing MPLS protocols. A P2MP LSP will be setup with TE
>>>constraints and will allow efficient packet replication at various branching
>>>points in the network. RSVP-TE will be used for setting up a P2MP LSP with
>>>enhancements to existing P2P TE LSP procedures. The P2MP TE LSP setup
>>>mechanism
>>>will include the ability to add/remove receivers to/from an existing P2MP
>>>LSP.
>>>
>>>The MPLS WG will specify only how to setup a P2MP TE LSP. The usage of this
>>>will
>>>be application dependent.
>>>
>>>(Milestones)
>>>
>>>To produce a requirement draft that specifies the scope, requirements, and
>>>issues
>>>to resolve for this enhancement by Minneapolis 2003 meeting.
>>>
>>>To produce a small number of solution draft(s) which specify protocol
>>>extensions,
>>>enhancements and mechanisms to fill the requirement and solve the above
>>>problem
>>>by spring 2004 IETF meeting.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  (Example)
>>>
>>>      Consider the following figure.
>>>
>>>                         Source 1 (S1)
>>>                                |
>>>                               PE1
>>>                              |   |
>>>                              |   |
>>>                  R2----PE3--P1   P2---PE2--Receiver 1 (R1)
>>>                              |
>>>                             PE4----R3
>>>                              |
>>>                              |
>>>                             R4
>>>
>>>                            Figure 1.
>>>
>>>       The above figure shows PE1, PE2, PE3 and PE4. PE1 is attached to a
>>>traffic
>>>source that is generating traffic for a P2MP application. PE2, PE3 and PE4
>>>are
>>>attached to receivers that are interested in receiving traffic for the
>>>application. The following are the objectives that we wish to achieve:
>>>
>>>       a) Set up a P2MP TE LSP from PE1 to PE2, PE3 and PE4.
>>>       b) Packet replication should be efficient. In this case, the branch
>>>node P1
>>>          should replicate incoming packets and send them to PE3 and PE4.
>>>       c) The P2MP TE LSP should be setup by enhancing existing RSVP-TE P2P
>>>          procedures and without running a multicast routing protocol in the
>>>          network core.
>>>
>
>--
>Loa Andersson
>
>Mobile          +46 739 81 21 64
>Email           loa@pi.se
>
>



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From: "Wijnen, Bert (Bert)" <bwijnen@lucent.com>
To: "'Martin Dubuc'" <dubuc.consulting@rogers.com>,
        "Mpls (E-mail)"
	 <mpls@UU.NET>
Subject: RE: MIB Doctor review:draft-ietf-mpls-telink-mib-03.txt
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 14:30:52 +0200 
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Responses to those points where you had questions.
> > - I see:
> >     teLinkModuleReadOnlyCompliance MODULE-COMPLIANCE
> >       STATUS current
> >       DESCRIPTION
> >        "Compliance statement for agents that support the
> >         monitoring of TE link MIB module."
> >       MODULE -- this module
> >
> >       -- The mandatory groups have to be implemented
> >       -- by all devices supporting TE links. However, they may all
> >       -- be supported as read-only objects in the case where manual
> >       -- configuration is unsupported.
> >
> >       MANDATORY-GROUPS    { teLinkGroup,
> >                             teLinkBandwidthGroup,
> >                             componentLinkBandwidthGroup }
> >
> >    It seems to me that that all of those 4 comment lines are redundant.
> >    The idea of the MODULE-COMPLIANCE statements is that they are both
> >    human and machine readable.
> >
> 
> I am not sure I understand why the fact that the MODULE-COMPLIANCE
> statements are human and machine readable makes these 
> comments redundant.
> 
Well, let us check/evaluate:
    -- The mandatory groups have to be implemented
    -- by all devices supporting TE links.
Indeed... if you list MANDATORY-GROUPS, then they indeed HAVE to be
implemented. So that seems redundant to me

    -- However, they may all
    -- be supported as read-only objects in the case where manual
    -- configuration is unsupported.

And again, when you list the OBJECTs with a MIN-ACCESS read-only,
then that lists explicitly those objects that are OK to be
implemented in read-only mode. The DESCRIPTION clause of such
statements even spell out something aka "write access is not required".
So seems pretty redundant to me, no?

> >
> > - I see hyphenation. That is something the RFC-Editor does 
> >   not want/like.
> >
> 
> Hyphenation is done automatically with nroff. I don't know 
> how to turn it off.
> Any idea?
> 
Mmm... I am not an nroff expert. I suspect you have to turn it
on explicitly. These days I use xml2rfc tools. 
I used to take the RFC-Editors nroff template and build from there.
Details at:
http://www.rfc-editor.org/formatting.html


Further references:
   draft-rfc-editor-rfc2223bis-07.txt page 19, bullet (6)

Hope this helps,
Bert


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Message-ID: <000701c37213$68fc0dc0$2202a8c0@flfrd.phub.net.cable.rogers.com>
From: "Martin Dubuc" <dubuc.consulting@rogers.com>
To: "Wijnen, Bert \(Bert\)" <bwijnen@lucent.com>,
        "Mpls \(E-mail\)" <mpls@UU.NET>
References: <7D5D48D2CAA3D84C813F5B154F43B15502331463@nl0006exch001u.nl.lucent.com>
Subject: Re: MIB Doctor review:draft-ietf-mpls-telink-mib-03.txt
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 08:03:37 -0400
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I will submit shortly a MIB that addresses your comments as version 04.
Embedded is my
response to your original message. I need some feedback from you on the last
points.

Martin

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wijnen, Bert (Bert)" <bwijnen@lucent.com>
To: "'Martin Dubuc'" <dubuc.consulting@rogers.com>; "Mpls (E-mail)"
<mpls@uu.net>
Sent: Monday, September 01, 2003 2:43 PM
Subject: MIB Doctor review:draft-ietf-mpls-telink-mib-03.txt


> - Interesting that title page claims that doc expires feb 2003?
>   You porobably mean feb 2004
>

Yes.

> - I get this WMICng warning:
>   W: f(telink.mi2), (1564,19) MIN-ACCESS value identical to access
>      specified for "teLinkBandwidthUnreserved"
>   Seems to me you can just remove that MIN-ACCESS from the MODULE
>   COMPLIANCE.
>

Done.

> - I see
>     TeLinkSonetSdhIndication ::= TEXTUAL-CONVENTION
>       STATUS       current
>       DESCRIPTION
>           "SONET/SDH indication type."
>       SYNTAX       INTEGER {
>                     standard(0),
>                     arbitrary(1)
>                 }
>    Since we normallyh do not start with zero (but with 1), I assume
>    there is a reason you start with zero. Could that reason be described
>    and is there a doc that explains this, so that you refernece it?
>

Use of zero is done to map to the message definition of the interface
switching capability specific information field as specified in
[GMPLS-OSPF]. I have explained this in the description and added reference
to the document that specifies the message format.

> NITS:
>
> - I see
>     teLinkGroups
>        OBJECT IDENTIFIER ::= { teLinkConformance 1 }
>
>     teLinkCompliances
>        OBJECT IDENTIFIER ::= { teLinkConformance 2 }
>   Normally we do it the other way around, first Compliances, then Groups,
>   See page 35, appendix D of draft-ietf-ops-mib-review-guidelines-02.txt
>

Done.

> - I see in OBJECT-GROUP statement things like:
>      DESCRIPTION
>           "Collection of objects needed for the monitoring of
>            resources associated with TE links."
>   I would think the objects *at least a subset) are also usefull for
>   configuration. How about:
>      DESCRIPTION
>           "Collection of objects for management of
>            resources associated with TE links."
>   Most OBJECT-GROUP descritpion clauses have similar "problem".
>

I have updated the description of the groups that used the word monitoring
in the description.

> - I see:
>     teLinkModuleFullCompliance MODULE-COMPLIANCE
>       STATUS current
>       DESCRIPTION
>        "Compliance statement for agents that support the
>         configuration and monitoring of TE Link MIB module."
>    Mmmm. I would word it a bit different:
>        "Compliance statement for agents that support read-create
>         so that both configuration and monitoring of TE Links can
>         be accomplished via this MIB module."
>    Matter of taste I guess.
>

Have updated text accordingly.

> - I see:
>     teLinkModuleReadOnlyCompliance MODULE-COMPLIANCE
>       STATUS current
>       DESCRIPTION
>        "Compliance statement for agents that support the
>         monitoring of TE link MIB module."
>       MODULE -- this module
>
>       -- The mandatory groups have to be implemented
>       -- by all devices supporting TE links. However, they may all
>       -- be supported as read-only objects in the case where manual
>       -- configuration is unsupported.
>
>       MANDATORY-GROUPS    { teLinkGroup,
>                             teLinkBandwidthGroup,
>                             componentLinkBandwidthGroup }
>
>    It seems to me that that all of those 4 comment lines are redundant.
>    The idea of the MODULE-COMPLIANCE statements is that they are both
>    human and machine readable.
>

I am not sure I understand why the fact that the MODULE-COMPLIANCE
statements are human and machine readable makes these comments redundant.

> - I see hyphenation. That is something the RFC-Editor does not want/like.
>

Hyphenation is done automatically with nroff. I don't know how to turn it
off.
Any idea?

> - Section 6 starts with:
>     6.  Brief Description of MIB Objects
>
>        Sections 6.1-6.4 describe objects pertaining to TE links.  The MIB
>        objects were derived from the link bundling document [BUNDLING].
>   How abaout the section 6.5-6.7 ??
>

I have clarified this in the text.

> Thanks,
> Bert



From owner-mpls@UU.NET  Wed Sep  3 13:06:40 2003
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From: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.se>
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To: "Andrew G. Malis" <andy.malis@tellabs.com>
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Subject: Re: Invitation to discuss: "P2MP problem statement"
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Andy,

I hope you don't have the impression that I'm against adding
this work item. What conserns me is the low level
of partcipation on the list, would feel more conforatable if
there were an active discussion.

/Loa

Andrew G. Malis wrote:

> Loa,
> 
> Just the fact that 12 people from various organizations have shown 
> enough interest to contribute to the existing drafts (and indeed that 
> there are multiple proposals) demonstrates that this functionality is 
> not a single-person or single-organization issue.  Would you feel 
> differently if one person had written a draft and 11 others spoke up on 
> the list?
> 
> Thanks,
> Andy
> 
> ---------
> 
> At 9/3/2003 09:36 AM +0200, Loa Andersson wrote:
> 
>> Working Group,
>>
>> it is almost three weeks since I sent this "invitation to
>> discuss the P2MP probelm statement". The tendency has been
>> mostly in favor of adding p2mp mpls as a new milestone to
>> our charter, but the discussion has not been that active,
>> so it is hard to decide one way or another. Apart from the
>> authors (the author groups is about 12 people) it is only
>> one person that has taken part in the discussion.
>>
>> I'm aware of that we had a mailing list problem, but it is
>> my take that the mails gone through eventually, if you think
>> this is wrong please resend.
>>
>> Before deciding I would like a quick "show of hands", just
>> positive or negative. If you have reasons not to send your
>> response to the list, you may send it directly to me.
>>
>> I plan to make the call mid-next week.
>>
>> /Loa
> 
> 
> 
> 

-- 
Loa Andersson

Mobile          +46 739 81 21 64
Email           loa@pi.se




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Hi Andy,

> I'm curious what additional functionality MPLS in L2TPv3 would get you that
> GRE or direct IP encapsulation doesn't already provide.

The same two points given in the applicability statement of 
draft-ietf-mpls-in-ip-or-gre-02.txt for MPLS-in-GRE vs. MPLS-in-IP hold for 
MPLS-in-L2TPv3 vs. MPLS-in-IP. L2TPv3 also provides a method for thwarting a 
blind packet insertion attack (in the absence of IPsec) via the Cookie in the 
L2TPv3 header.

- Mark

>
> At 8/29/2003 10:26 AM -0700, David Meyer wrote:
>> One thing that would appear to be useful is to generalize the
>> draft just a bit to  mpls-in-ip-encapsulation and include L2TPv3.
>>
>> Dave






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Subject: RE: I-D ACTION:draft-lai-mpls-mib-rqmts-00.txt
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 14:33:26 -0500
Message-ID: <7AFE40EF30EE754DA967D1B5968457CA02165D6E@KCCLUST06EVS1.ugd.att.com>
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From: "Lai, Wai S (Waisum), ALABS" <wlai@att.com>
To: <mpls@UU.NET>
Cc: "Ross Callon" <rcallon@juniper.net>, "Loa Andersson" <loa@pi.se>,
        "Ron Bonica" <Ronald.P.Bonica@mci.com>, <tnadeau@cisco.com>,
        "Ash, Gerald R (Jerry), ALABS" <gash@att.com>,
        "Chung, Li-Jin W, ALABS" <lic@att.com>
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Resending, since it does not appear to be on the archive.
Thanks, Wai Sum

-----Original Message-----
From: Lai, Wai S (Waisum), ALABS=20
Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2003 8:05 AM
To: 'mpls@uu.net'
Cc: 'Ross Callon'; 'Loa Andersson'; 'Ron Bonica'; 'tnadeau@cisco.com';
Ash, Gerald R (Jerry), ALABS; Chung, Li-Jin W, ALABS
Subject: RE: I-D ACTION:draft-lai-mpls-mib-rqmts-00.txt


At the initiation of Ross Callon, a meeting was held during the
IETF'57 in Vienna to discuss the LDP-MIB requirements described
in the following draft
http://ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-lai-mpls-mib-rqmts-00.txt
Participants were Ross Callon, Ron Bonica, Loa Andersson, Tom
Nadeau, Jerry Ash, Li-Jin Chung, and Wai Sum Lai.

As a result, it was agreed that, to address performance/fault
management requirements of LDP-MIB (Section 2 of draft), a new
history MIB module is to be developed.  This is to capture the
signaling usage/performance of the LDP Entities, as well as the
traffic usage/performance of the LDP Sessions, so as to facilitate
the engineering of LDP Sessions and the management of router
resources.

Comments on this are welcome.
Thanks, Wai Sum

-----Original Message-----
From: Lai, Wai S (Waisum), ALABS=20
Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2003 9:02 AM
To: ppvpn@nortelnetworks.com
Subject: RE: I-D ACTION:draft-lai-mpls-mib-rqmts-00.txt


Based on our testing of the VPN MIB, we have identified some
requirements
as described in the following draft.  Your comments are welcome.
Thanks, Wai Sum

-----Original Message-----
From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org [mailto:Internet-Drafts@ietf.org]
Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2003 7:48 AM
Cc: mpls@uu.net; ppvpn@nortelnetworks.com
Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-lai-mpls-mib-rqmts-00.txt


A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
directories.


	Title		: Network Management Requirements for MPLS MIBs
	Author(s)	: W. Lai, L. Chung
	Filename	: draft-lai-mpls-mib-rqmts-00.txt
	Pages		: 6
	Date		: 2003-4-30
=09
In this document, requirements for three MPLS-related MIBs (LDP-MIB,=20
VPN-MIB, and BGP4-MIB) are presented for the support of specific=20
network management needs for fault and performance management.

A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-lai-mpls-mib-rqmts-00.txt



From owner-mpls@UU.NET  Wed Sep  3 23:06:18 2003
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Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 18:39:26 -0700 (PDT)
From: Kireeti Kompella <kireeti@juniper.net>
To: "Thomas D. Nadeau" <tnadeau@cisco.com>
cc: "'Mpls (E-mail)'" <mpls@UU.NET>
Subject: RE: error in draft-ietf-mpls-te-mib-12.txt
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Hi Tom,

MplsBitRate is used in a couple of places in the mpls te mib,
and has units of "bits per second".  It's also used in the lsr
mib, and (if I recall right) one place has no units statement.

hth,
Kireeti.


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From owner-mpls@UU.NET  Thu Sep  4 06:39:05 2003
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From: "Wijnen, Bert (Bert)" <bwijnen@lucent.com>
To: "Mpls (E-mail)" <mpls@UU.NET>
Subject: FW: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tewg-mib-05.txt 
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 11:52:12 +0200 
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FYI, I had copied Dave Thaler (author/editor for IP Tunnel
MIB) on my questions regaringd overlap/conflict/relationships.

I think it is good that the WG knows

Thanks,
Bert 

-----Original Message-----
From: Kireeti Kompella [mailto:kireeti@juniper.net]
Sent: donderdag 4 september 2003 1:56
To: Dave Thaler
Cc: Wijnen, Bert (Bert); Adrian Farrel
Subject: RE: WG Last Call: draft-ietf-tewg-mib-05.txt 


Hi Dave,

On Wed, 3 Sep 2003, Dave Thaler wrote:

> I will review the MIB this week.
> We know we need an IPv6 Tunnel MIB (this fact is even mentioned in RFC
> 2667), or perhaps an Inet Tunnel MIB if we want only one.

> Just from the below, it sounds like the te-link MIB should logically
> extend the IP Tunnel MIB, just like the L2TP MIB does.

There are two different MIBs here -- the TE Tunnel MIB (filename
draft-ietf-tewg-mib-06.txt) and the te link MIB (filename
draft-ietf-mpls-telink-mib-03.txt).

> That is, it shouldn't define its own ifType or its own local or
> remote address objects, and it's probably missing the other things the
> IP Tunnel MIB has (which would be moot if it extended the MIB like L2TP
> does).

As I said, the local and remote address objects for TE Tunnels are
quite different, and a TE tunnel is not necessarily an interface (or
even an IP tunnel).

But you might find that the TE Tunnel MIB performance stats are worth
stealing for the Inet MIB.

> Or I could be wrong... I'll know more once I go through it.

Look forward to your comments.

Kireeti.


From owner-mpls@UU.NET  Thu Sep  4 07:27:03 2003
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To: mpls@UU.NET
Cc: enke@redback.com, tian@redback.com
Subject: draft-chen-ldp-ttl-00.txt
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 23:32:30 -0700
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Hi, folks:
Here is a new draft. Please let us know if you have any comments.

Regards,  -- Enke

------- Forwarded Message

To: IETF-Announce: ;
From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org
Reply-To: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org
Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-chen-ldp-ttl-00.txt
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 10:05:31 -0400
Sender: owner-ietf-announce@ietf.org

- --NextPart

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.


	Title		: TTL-Based Security Option for LDP Hello Message
	Author(s)	: E. Chen, A. Tian
	Filename	: draft-chen-ldp-ttl-00.txt
	Pages		: 3
	Date		: 2003-8-26
	
To facilitate the deployment of the TTL-based security mechanism for
LDP, in this document we propose a new optional parameter for the LDP
Hello Message that can be used by a LSR to indicate its support of
the TTL-based mechanism.

A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-chen-ldp-ttl-00.txt

------- End of Forwarded Message



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To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.se>
From: "Andrew G. Malis" <andy.malis@tellabs.com>
Subject: Re: Invitation to discuss: "P2MP problem statement"
Cc: "Andrew G. Malis" <andy.malis@tellabs.com>, mpls@UU.NET
In-Reply-To: <3F5617C7.2030801@pi.se>
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Loa,

One of the reasons there may not be all that much discussion on the list is 
that there's already been extensive off-list discussion both in Vienna and 
by email that resulted in the generation of the problem statement.

Cheers,
Andy

-------

At 9/3/2003 06:33 PM +0200, Loa Andersson wrote:
>Andy,
>
>I hope you don't have the impression that I'm against adding
>this work item. What conserns me is the low level
>of partcipation on the list, would feel more conforatable if
>there were an active discussion.
>
>/Loa
>
>Andrew G. Malis wrote:
>
>>Loa,
>>Just the fact that 12 people from various organizations have shown enough 
>>interest to contribute to the existing drafts (and indeed that there are 
>>multiple proposals) demonstrates that this functionality is not a 
>>single-person or single-organization issue.  Would you feel differently 
>>if one person had written a draft and 11 others spoke up on the list?
>>Thanks,
>>Andy
>>---------
>>At 9/3/2003 09:36 AM +0200, Loa Andersson wrote:
>>
>>>Working Group,
>>>
>>>it is almost three weeks since I sent this "invitation to
>>>discuss the P2MP probelm statement". The tendency has been
>>>mostly in favor of adding p2mp mpls as a new milestone to
>>>our charter, but the discussion has not been that active,
>>>so it is hard to decide one way or another. Apart from the
>>>authors (the author groups is about 12 people) it is only
>>>one person that has taken part in the discussion.
>>>
>>>I'm aware of that we had a mailing list problem, but it is
>>>my take that the mails gone through eventually, if you think
>>>this is wrong please resend.
>>>
>>>Before deciding I would like a quick "show of hands", just
>>>positive or negative. If you have reasons not to send your
>>>response to the list, you may send it directly to me.
>>>
>>>I plan to make the call mid-next week.
>>>
>>>/Loa
>>
>
>--
>Loa Andersson
>
>Mobile          +46 739 81 21 64
>Email           loa@pi.se
>



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Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 10:07:22 -0400
To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.se>
From: "Andrew G. Malis" <andy.malis@tellabs.com>
Subject: Re: Invitation to discuss: "P2MP problem statement"
Cc: mpls@UU.NET, Loa Andersson <loa@pi.se>
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Loa,

Just the fact that 12 people from various organizations have shown enough 
interest to contribute to the existing drafts (and indeed that there are 
multiple proposals) demonstrates that this functionality is not a 
single-person or single-organization issue.  Would you feel differently if 
one person had written a draft and 11 others spoke up on the list?

Thanks,
Andy

---------

At 9/3/2003 09:36 AM +0200, Loa Andersson wrote:
>Working Group,
>
>it is almost three weeks since I sent this "invitation to
>discuss the P2MP probelm statement". The tendency has been
>mostly in favor of adding p2mp mpls as a new milestone to
>our charter, but the discussion has not been that active,
>so it is hard to decide one way or another. Apart from the
>authors (the author groups is about 12 people) it is only
>one person that has taken part in the discussion.
>
>I'm aware of that we had a mailing list problem, but it is
>my take that the mails gone through eventually, if you think
>this is wrong please resend.
>
>Before deciding I would like a quick "show of hands", just
>positive or negative. If you have reasons not to send your
>response to the list, you may send it directly to me.
>
>I plan to make the call mid-next week.
>
>/Loa



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Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 16:20:57 -0400
From: Ron Bonica <Ronald.P.Bonica@mci.com>
Subject: RE: Invitation to discuss: "P2MP problem statement"
In-reply-to: <3F559A12.5080500@pi.se>
To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.se>, mpls@UU.NET
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Loa,

Positive. P2MP LSPs may have some very interesting applications.

                                   Ron


> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-mpls@UU.NET [mailto:owner-mpls@UU.NET]On Behalf Of Loa
> Andersson
> Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2003 3:37 AM
> To: mpls@UU.NET
> Cc: Loa Andersson
> Subject: Re: Invitation to discuss: "P2MP problem statement"
>
>
> Working Group,
>
> it is almost three weeks since I sent this "invitation to
> discuss the P2MP probelm statement". The tendency has been
> mostly in favor of adding p2mp mpls as a new milestone to
> our charter, but the discussion has not been that active,
> so it is hard to decide one way or another. Apart from the
> authors (the author groups is about 12 people) it is only
> one person that has taken part in the discussion.
>
> I'm aware of that we had a mailing list problem, but it is
> my take that the mails gone through eventually, if you think
> this is wrong please resend.
>
> Before deciding I would like a quick "show of hands", just
> positive or negative. If you have reasons not to send your
> response to the list, you may send it directly to me.
>
> I plan to make the call mid-next week.
>
> /Loa
>
> Loa Andersson wrote:
>
> > Alan + both teams,
> >
> > thanks for preparing this!
> >
> > Working Group,
> >
> > below you will find the p2mp problem statement prepared by the
> > autors behind the drafts:
> >    draft-yasukawa-mpls-rsvp-p2mp-02.txt
> >    draft-raggarwa-mpls-p2mp-te-00.txt
> >
> > I would like to have your response on
> >
> > 1. the content of the problem statement
> > 2. whether the mpls working group should ask the ADs
> >    that a new milestone om p2mp mpls should be added
> >    to our charter
> >
> > If there is support we plan to take this as an separate item
> > (not include it in the more general charter update) to the
> > ADs. Again this is a question for which I would like boths
> > the pros and cons to speak up. Silence will not be interpreted
> > (one way or another).
> >
> > /Loa
> >
> > Kullberg Alan-G19424 wrote:
> >
> >> Loa & George,
> >>
> >> Below is a problem statement for point-to-multipoint using MPLS.
> >> This problem statement has been prepared jointly by the authors
> >> of the drafts:
> >>   draft-yasukawa-mpls-rsvp-p2mp-02.txt
> >>   draft-raggarwa-mpls-p2mp-te-00.txt
> >>
> >> Please use this problem statement as a basis to get the MPLS WG
> >> charter updated to include P2MP work.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Alan
> >>
> >> #########################
> >>
> >> Problem statement
> >>
> >>
> >> Content Distribution (CD), Interactive multi-media (IMM), and VPN
> >> multicast
> >> are
> >> applications that are best supported with multicast capabilities.
> >>
> >> IP Multicast provides P2MP communication. However, there are no Traffic
> >> Engineering (TE) capabilities or QoS guarantees with existing IP
> >> multicast
> >> protocols.  Note that diff-serv combined with IP multicast
> routing is not
> >> sufficient for P2MP applications for many of the same reasons that it
> >> is not
> >> sufficient for unicast applications - TE and CSPF are required to
> >> enable and
> >> scale the intelligent management of network resources, to prevent
> >> congestion, and
> >> to enable sub-second rerouting around network failures.
> >>
> >> One possible solution would be to setup multiple P2P TE LSPs, one to
> >> each of
> >> the
> >> required  egress PEs. This requires replicating incoming packets to
> >> all the
> >> P2P
> >> LSPs at the ingress PE to accommodate multipoint communication. This
> >> is sub-
> >> optimal. It places the replication burden on the ingress PE
> and hence has
> >> very
> >> poor scaling characteristics. It also wastes bandwidth resources,
> >> memory and
> >> MPLS
> >> (e.g. label) resources in the network.
> >>
> >> Hence, to provide TE for a P2MP application in an efficient manner in a
> >> large
> >> scale environemnt, P2MP TE mechanisms are required.  Existing
> MPLS P2P TE
> >> mechanisms have to be enhanced to support P2MP TE LSP setup.
> >>
> >> We propose that MPLS be enhanced to setup P2MP TE LSPs. This should be
> >> achieved
> >> without running a multicast routing protocol in the network
> core and with
> >> maximum
> >> re-use of the existing MPLS protocols. A P2MP LSP will be setup with TE
> >> constraints and will allow efficient packet replication at various
> >> branching
> >> points in the network. RSVP-TE will be used for setting up a P2MP LSP
> >> with
> >> enhancements to existing P2P TE LSP procedures. The P2MP TE LSP setup
> >> mechanism
> >> will include the ability to add/remove receivers to/from an
> existing P2MP
> >> LSP.
> >>
> >> The MPLS WG will specify only how to setup a P2MP TE LSP. The usage of
> >> this
> >> will
> >> be application dependent.
> >>
> >> (Milestones)
> >>
> >> To produce a requirement draft that specifies the scope, requirements,
> >> and
> >> issues
> >> to resolve for this enhancement by Minneapolis 2003 meeting.
> >>
> >> To produce a small number of solution draft(s) which specify protocol
> >> extensions,
> >> enhancements and mechanisms to fill the requirement and solve the above
> >> problem
> >> by spring 2004 IETF meeting.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>  (Example)
> >>
> >>      Consider the following figure.
> >>
> >>                         Source 1 (S1)
> >>                                |
> >>                               PE1
> >>                              |   |
> >>                              |   |
> >>                  R2----PE3--P1   P2---PE2--Receiver 1 (R1)
> >>                              |
> >>                             PE4----R3
> >>                              |
> >>                              |
> >>                             R4
> >>
> >>                            Figure 1.
> >>
> >>       The above figure shows PE1, PE2, PE3 and PE4. PE1 is
> attached to a
> >> traffic
> >> source that is generating traffic for a P2MP application. PE2, PE3 and
> >> PE4
> >> are
> >> attached to receivers that are interested in receiving traffic for the
> >> application. The following are the objectives that we wish to achieve:
> >>
> >>       a) Set up a P2MP TE LSP from PE1 to PE2, PE3 and PE4.
> >>       b) Packet replication should be efficient. In this case,
> the branch
> >> node P1
> >>          should replicate incoming packets and send them to
> PE3 and PE4.
> >>       c) The P2MP TE LSP should be setup by enhancing existing RSVP-TE
> >> P2P
> >>          procedures and without running a multicast routing protocol
> >> in the
> >>          network core.
> >>
> >>
> >
>
> --
> Loa Andersson
>
> Mobile          +46 739 81 21 64
> Email           loa@pi.se
>
>



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Reply-To: <tnadeau@cisco.com>
From: "Thomas D. Nadeau" <tnadeau@cisco.com>
To: "'Kireeti Kompella'" <kireeti@juniper.net>
Cc: "'Mpls \(E-mail\)'" <mpls@UU.NET>
Subject: RE: error in draft-ietf-mpls-te-mib-12.txt
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 10:16:34 -0400
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-mpls@UU.NET [mailto:owner-mpls@UU.NET] On Behalf 
> Of Kireeti Kompella
> Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2003 9:39 PM
> To: Thomas D. Nadeau
> Cc: 'Mpls (E-mail)'
> Subject: RE: error in draft-ietf-mpls-te-mib-12.txt
> 
> 
> Hi Tom,
> 
> MplsBitRate is used in a couple of places in the mpls te mib, 
> and has units of "bits per second".  It's also used in the 
> lsr mib, and (if I recall right) one place has no units statement.

	Yes, someone else caught this (and was supposed to post
to this list yesterday but didn't).   It should be changed to
"kilobits per second" everywhere. I will do this as part of
the IETF last call comments.

	Thanks,

	--Tom




From owner-mpls@UU.NET  Thu Sep  4 17:17:50 2003
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Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 13:22:27 -0700
From: Manoj <manoj@ipinfusion.com>
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Hi,

In facility backup technique, a PLR may need to send same PATH message 
(as the LSP being protected), before primary LSP failure,  over bypass 
tunnel if the MP does not support platform labels (label space 0). Now, 
in this situation what happens if the protected LSP fails ?

a)  Should PLR continue to send the original PATH msg (for label 
discovery) over the bypass tunnel and also signal backup LSP over the 
bypass tunnel using a modified PATH message with a different sender 
template as decribed in the draft.
or
b) Should it stop sending the original (label discovery) PATH message 
and just start sending out the modified PATH message (different sender 
template) over the bypass tunnel (for signaling backup LSP).

Thanks in advance
Manoj



From owner-mpls@UU.NET  Thu Sep  4 17:45:00 2003
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Hi,

In facility backup technique, a PLR may need to send same PATH message 
(as the LSP being protected), before primary LSP failure,  over bypass 
tunnel if the MP does not support platform labels (label space 0). Now, 
in this situation what happens if the protected LSP fails ?

a)  Should PLR continue to send the original PATH msg (for label 
discovery) over the bypass tunnel and also signal backup LSP over the 
bypass tunnel using a modified PATH message with a different sender 
template as decribed in the draft.
or
b) Should it stop sending the original (label discovery) PATH message 
and just start sending out the modified PATH message (different sender 
template) over the bypass tunnel (for signaling backup LSP).

Thanks in advance
Manoj





From owner-mpls@UU.NET  Thu Sep  4 19:53:33 2003
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Hi,

In facility backup technique, a PLR may need to send same PATH message 
(as the LSP being protected), before primary LSP failure,  over bypass 
tunnel if the MP does not support platform labels (label space 0). Now, 
in this situation what happens if the protected LSP fails ?

a)  Should PLR continue to send the original PATH msg (for label 
discovery) over the bypass tunnel and also signal backup LSP over the 
bypass tunnel using a modified PATH message with a different sender 
template as decribed in the draft.
or
b) Should it stop sending the original (label discovery) PATH message 
and just start sending out the modified PATH message (different sender 
template) over the bypass tunnel (for signaling backup LSP).

Thanks in advance
Manoj



From owner-mpls@UU.NET  Fri Sep  5 08:46:10 2003
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From: Bart.Rousseau@alcatel.be
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Subject: RE: Invitation to discuss: "P2MP problem statement"
To: mpls@UU.NET
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Loa,

I am in favor of pursuing P2MP within the
scope of this wg.

Bart.





From owner-mpls@UU.NET  Fri Sep  5 11:25:02 2003
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Multiprotocol Label Switching Working Group of the IETF.

	Title		: Traffic Engineering Link Management Information Base
	Author(s)	: M. Dubuc, S. Dharanikota, T. Nadeau, J. Lang
	Filename	: draft-ietf-mpls-telink-mib-04.txt
	Pages		: 54
	Date		: 2003-9-5
	
This memo defines a portion of the Management Information Base (MIB)
for use with network management protocols in the Internet community.
In particular, it describes managed objects for modeling TE links as
described in the Link Bundling in MPLS Traffic Engineering document.

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From owner-mpls@UU.NET  Sat Sep  6 04:35:30 2003
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From: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.se>
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To: mpls wg <mpls@UU.NET>
CC: Martin Dubuc <dubuc.consulting@rogers.com>,
        Sudheer Dharanikota <sudheer@ieee.org>,
        Thomas Nadeau <tnadeau@cisco.com>, jonathan.lang@rinconnetworks.com,
        Bert Wijnen <bwijnen@lucent.com>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-mpls-telink-mib-03.txt]
References: <7D5D48D2CAA3D84C813F5B154F43B1550233145F@nl0006exch001u.nl.lucent.com> <3F53D82C.4020901@pi.se> <001701c37147$a2e15940$2202a8c0@flfrd.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <3F55131A.4020807@pi.se> <004d01c37415$4430f420$2202a8c0@flfrd.phub.net.cable.rogers.com>
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All,

this is to initiate a WG last call on

	Traffic Engineering Link Management Information Base
	<draft-ietf-mpls-telink-mib-04.txt>

http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-mpls-telink-mib-04.txt

the working group last call GMT PM 11.59, September 21st.

Please send your comments to the mailing list.

/Loa

-- 
Loa Andersson

Mobile          +46 739 81 21 64
Email           loa@pi.se




From owner-mpls@UU.NET  Sat Sep  6 05:41:15 2003
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To: George Swallow <swallow@cisco.com>, mpls wg <mpls@UU.NET>
Subject: draft-ietf-mpls-telink-mib-03.txt wg last call
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Loa Andersson wrote:

> All,
> 
> this is to initiate a WG last call on
> 
>     Traffic Engineering Link Management Information Base
>     <draft-ietf-mpls-telink-mib-04.txt>
> 
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-mpls-telink-mib-04.txt
> 
> the working group last call GMT PM 11.59, September 21st.
> 
> Please send your comments to the mailing list.
> 
> /Loa
> 

-- 
Loa Andersson

Mobile          +46 739 81 21 64
Email           loa@pi.se




From owner-mpls@UU.NET  Sat Sep  6 23:50:58 2003
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To: mpls wg <mpls@UU.NET>
CC: George Swallow <swallow@cisco.com>
Subject: wg last call on draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-mtu-extensions-01.txt
References: <7D5D48D2CAA3D84C813F5B154F43B1550233145F@nl0006exch001u.nl.lucent.com> <3F53D82C.4020901@pi.se> <001701c37147$a2e15940$2202a8c0@flfrd.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <3F55131A.4020807@pi.se> <004d01c37415$4430f420$2202a8c0@flfrd.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <3F59926A.7030506@pi.se> <3F59A265.8050907@pi.se> <20030906191853.C46157@kummer.juniper.net>
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Working Group,

this is to initiate a working group last call on

      MTU Signalling Extensions for LDP
      <draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-mtu-extensions-01.txt>

The last call ends PM 11,59 GMT September 22.

Please send your comments to the mailing list.

/Loa

-- 
Loa Andersson

Mobile          +46 739 81 21 64
Email           loa@pi.se




From owner-mpls@UU.NET  Sun Sep  7 04:20:40 2003
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From: Stefan Winter <mail@stefan-winter.de>
Organization: =?iso-8859-15?q?Universit=E4t=20Karlsruhe?= (TH)
To: mpls@UU.NET, iesg@ietf.org
Subject: errors in draft-ietf-te-mib-12.txt
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 09:45:54 +0200
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Hello,

sorry for bothering you again. But during the implementation of the MPLS MIBs 
I came across some more inconsistencies...

1) concerning data types: mplsTunnelIndex is of syntax mplsTunnelIndex, 
derived from UNSIGNED32. But the corresponding scalar mplsTunnelIndexNext is 
of type IndexIntegerNextFree, derived from INTEGER32. I don't think it is a 
good idea to have different data types for these two.

2) DESCRIPTION clause of mplsTunnelIndex states "should obtain new values for 
row creation in this table by reading mplsTunnelIndexNextFree". The scalar in 
question is not called mplsTunnelIndexNextFree but mplsTunnelIndexNext.

BTW, I never got a reply to my comments in message 
http://cell.onecall.net/mhonarc/mpls/2003-Aug/msg00105.html
I hope it didn't get lost...

Greetings,

Stefan Winter




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To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.se>
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Subject: Re: Invitation to discuss: "P2MP problem statement"
References: <EB3C1366E543D5119428009027E326ED0AF83676@il06exm02.corp.mot.com> <3F3AAED7.9030407@pi.se>
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I found it very interresting ..

Loa Andersson wrote:

> Alan + both teams,
>
> thanks for preparing this!
>
> Working Group,
>
> below you will find the p2mp problem statement prepared by the
> autors behind the drafts:
>     draft-yasukawa-mpls-rsvp-p2mp-02.txt
>     draft-raggarwa-mpls-p2mp-te-00.txt
>
> I would like to have your response on
>
> 1. the content of the problem statement
> 2. whether the mpls working group should ask the ADs
>     that a new milestone om p2mp mpls should be added
>     to our charter
>
> If there is support we plan to take this as an separate item
> (not include it in the more general charter update) to the
> ADs. Again this is a question for which I would like boths
> the pros and cons to speak up. Silence will not be interpreted
> (one way or another).
>
> /Loa
>
> Kullberg Alan-G19424 wrote:
> > Loa & George,
> >
> > Below is a problem statement for point-to-multipoint using MPLS.
> > This problem statement has been prepared jointly by the authors
> > of the drafts:
> >   draft-yasukawa-mpls-rsvp-p2mp-02.txt
> >   draft-raggarwa-mpls-p2mp-te-00.txt
> >
> > Please use this problem statement as a basis to get the MPLS WG
> > charter updated to include P2MP work.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Alan
> >
> > #########################
> >
> > Problem statement
> >
> >
> > Content Distribution (CD), Interactive multi-media (IMM), and VPN multicast
> > are
> > applications that are best supported with multicast capabilities.
> >
> > IP Multicast provides P2MP communication. However, there are no Traffic
> > Engineering (TE) capabilities or QoS guarantees with existing IP multicast
> > protocols.  Note that diff-serv combined with IP multicast routing is not
> > sufficient for P2MP applications for many of the same reasons that it is not
> > sufficient for unicast applications - TE and CSPF are required to enable and
> > scale the intelligent management of network resources, to prevent
> > congestion, and
> > to enable sub-second rerouting around network failures.
> >
> > One possible solution would be to setup multiple P2P TE LSPs, one to each of
> > the
> > required  egress PEs. This requires replicating incoming packets to all the
> > P2P
> > LSPs at the ingress PE to accommodate multipoint communication. This is sub-
> > optimal. It places the replication burden on the ingress PE and hence has
> > very
> > poor scaling characteristics. It also wastes bandwidth resources, memory and
> > MPLS
> > (e.g. label) resources in the network.
> >
> > Hence, to provide TE for a P2MP application in an efficient manner in a
> > large
> > scale environemnt, P2MP TE mechanisms are required.  Existing MPLS P2P TE
> > mechanisms have to be enhanced to support P2MP TE LSP setup.
> >
> > We propose that MPLS be enhanced to setup P2MP TE LSPs. This should be
> > achieved
> > without running a multicast routing protocol in the network core and with
> > maximum
> > re-use of the existing MPLS protocols. A P2MP LSP will be setup with TE
> > constraints and will allow efficient packet replication at various branching
> > points in the network. RSVP-TE will be used for setting up a P2MP LSP with
> > enhancements to existing P2P TE LSP procedures. The P2MP TE LSP setup
> > mechanism
> > will include the ability to add/remove receivers to/from an existing P2MP
> > LSP.
> >
> > The MPLS WG will specify only how to setup a P2MP TE LSP. The usage of this
> > will
> > be application dependent.
> >
> > (Milestones)
> >
> > To produce a requirement draft that specifies the scope, requirements, and
> > issues
> > to resolve for this enhancement by Minneapolis 2003 meeting.
> >
> > To produce a small number of solution draft(s) which specify protocol
> > extensions,
> > enhancements and mechanisms to fill the requirement and solve the above
> > problem
> > by spring 2004 IETF meeting.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >  (Example)
> >
> >      Consider the following figure.
> >
> >                         Source 1 (S1)
> >                                |
> >                               PE1
> >                              |   |
> >                              |   |
> >                  R2----PE3--P1   P2---PE2--Receiver 1 (R1)
> >                              |
> >                             PE4----R3
> >                              |
> >                              |
> >                             R4
> >
> >                            Figure 1.
> >
> >       The above figure shows PE1, PE2, PE3 and PE4. PE1 is attached to a
> > traffic
> > source that is generating traffic for a P2MP application. PE2, PE3 and PE4
> > are
> > attached to receivers that are interested in receiving traffic for the
> > application. The following are the objectives that we wish to achieve:
> >
> >       a) Set up a P2MP TE LSP from PE1 to PE2, PE3 and PE4.
> >       b) Packet replication should be efficient. In this case, the branch
> > node P1
> >          should replicate incoming packets and send them to PE3 and PE4.
> >       c) The P2MP TE LSP should be setup by enhancing existing RSVP-TE P2P
> >          procedures and without running a multicast routing protocol in the
> >          network core.
> >
> >
>
> --
> Loa Andersson
>
> Mobile          +46 739 81 21 64
> Email           loa@pi.se



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From: "Wijnen, Bert (Bert)" <bwijnen@lucent.com>
To: "'Stefan Winter'" <mail@stefan-winter.de>, mpls@UU.NET, iesg@ietf.org
Subject: RE: errors in draft-ietf-te-mib-12.txt
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Inline

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stefan Winter [mailto:mail@stefan-winter.de]
> Sent: zondag 7 september 2003 9:46
> To: mpls@UU.NET; iesg@ietf.org
> Subject: errors in draft-ietf-te-mib-12.txt
> 
> 
> Hello,
> 
> sorry for bothering you again. But during the implementation 
> of the MPLS MIBs I came across some more inconsistencies...
> 
> 1) concerning data types: mplsTunnelIndex is of syntax mplsTunnelIndex, 
> derived from UNSIGNED32. But the corresponding scalar mplsTunnelIndexNext is 
> of type IndexIntegerNextFree, derived from INTEGER32. I don't think it is a 
> good idea to have different data types for these two.
> 
That would indeed not be a good idea, but as far as I can tell,
IndexIntegerNextFree is also an Unsigned32, as per this snippet
from RFC3289, where it is IMPORted from:

  IndexIntegerNextFree ::= TEXTUAL-CONVENTION
    DISPLAY-HINT "d"
    STATUS   current
    DESCRIPTION
       "An integer which may be used as a new Index in a table.

       The special value of 0 indicates that no more new entries can be
       created in the relevant table.

       When a MIB is used for configuration, an object with this SYNTAX
       always contains a legal value (if non-zero) for an index that is
       not currently used in the relevant table. The Command Generator
       (Network Management Application) reads this variable and uses the
       (non-zero) value read when creating a new row with an SNMP SET.
       When the SET is performed, the Command Responder (agent) must
       determine whether the value is indeed still unused; Two Network
       Management Applications may attempt to create a row
       (configuration entry) simultaneously and use the same value. If
       it is currently unused, the SET succeeds and the Command
       Responder (agent) changes the value of this object, according to
       an implementation-specific algorithm.  If the value is in use,
       however, the SET fails.  The Network Management Application must
       then re-read this variable to obtain a new usable value.

       An OBJECT-TYPE definition using this SYNTAX MUST specify the
       relevant table for which the object is providing this
       functionality."
    SYNTAX   Unsigned32 (0..4294967295)

Now, since MplsTunnelIndex has a range of (0..65535). It might indeed
be a good idea to change:
  mplsTunnelIndexNext OBJECT-TYPE
     SYNTAX        IndexIntegerNextFree
into:
  mplsTunnelIndexNext OBJECT-TYPE
     SYNTAX        IndexIntegerNextFree (0..65535)
So that it is inline with the range that a real tunnel index can get.

> 2) DESCRIPTION clause of mplsTunnelIndex states "should 
>    obtain new values for row creation in this table by reading 
>    mplsTunnelIndexNextFree". The scalar in question is not called 
>    mplsTunnelIndexNextFree but mplsTunnelIndexNext.
> 
Good catch! 

Thanks for pointing these out.

> BTW, I never got a reply to my comments in message 
> http://cell.onecall.net/mhonarc/mpls/2003-Aug/msg00105.html
> I hope it didn't get lost...
> 
I was hoping/assuming that the document authors will indeed
at least answer, but probably also address your comment in that
posting. If you can pls keep an eye on it when the next
revision of the doc comes out, that would be great! 

Bert
> Greetings,
> 
> Stefan Winter
> 
> 


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From: S Mahadevan-A19066 <mahadevan.s@motorola.com>
To: "'Loa Andersson '" <loa@pi.se>, "'mpls@UU.NET '" <mpls@UU.NET>
Subject: RE: Invitation to discuss: "P2MP problem statement"
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 10:06:21 +0530 
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Loa,

Thats a very interesting problem. P2MP LSP should have a lot of
interesting applications! I strongly endorse adding this problem
to the charter..

Regards
Mahadevan Sankar
Motorola-India.

-----Original Message-----
From: Loa Andersson
To: Kullberg Alan-G19424; mpls@UU.NET
Sent: 8/14/03 3:04 AM
Subject: Invitation to discuss: "P2MP problem statement"

Alan + both teams,

thanks for preparing this!

Working Group,

below you will find the p2mp problem statement prepared by the
autors behind the drafts:
    draft-yasukawa-mpls-rsvp-p2mp-02.txt
    draft-raggarwa-mpls-p2mp-te-00.txt

I would like to have your response on

1. the content of the problem statement
2. whether the mpls working group should ask the ADs
    that a new milestone om p2mp mpls should be added
    to our charter

If there is support we plan to take this as an separate item
(not include it in the more general charter update) to the
ADs. Again this is a question for which I would like boths
the pros and cons to speak up. Silence will not be interpreted
(one way or another).

/Loa

Kullberg Alan-G19424 wrote:
> Loa & George,
> 
> Below is a problem statement for point-to-multipoint using MPLS.
> This problem statement has been prepared jointly by the authors
> of the drafts:
>   draft-yasukawa-mpls-rsvp-p2mp-02.txt
>   draft-raggarwa-mpls-p2mp-te-00.txt
> 
> Please use this problem statement as a basis to get the MPLS WG
> charter updated to include P2MP work.
> 
> Thanks,
> Alan
> 
> #########################
> 
> Problem statement
> 
> 
> Content Distribution (CD), Interactive multi-media (IMM), and VPN
multicast
> are
> applications that are best supported with multicast capabilities.
> 
> IP Multicast provides P2MP communication. However, there are no
Traffic
> Engineering (TE) capabilities or QoS guarantees with existing IP
multicast
> protocols.  Note that diff-serv combined with IP multicast routing is
not
> sufficient for P2MP applications for many of the same reasons that it
is not
> sufficient for unicast applications - TE and CSPF are required to
enable and
> scale the intelligent management of network resources, to prevent
> congestion, and
> to enable sub-second rerouting around network failures.
> 
> One possible solution would be to setup multiple P2P TE LSPs, one to
each of
> the
> required  egress PEs. This requires replicating incoming packets to
all the
> P2P
> LSPs at the ingress PE to accommodate multipoint communication. This
is sub-
> optimal. It places the replication burden on the ingress PE and hence
has
> very
> poor scaling characteristics. It also wastes bandwidth resources,
memory and
> MPLS
> (e.g. label) resources in the network.
> 
> Hence, to provide TE for a P2MP application in an efficient manner in
a
> large
> scale environemnt, P2MP TE mechanisms are required.  Existing MPLS P2P
TE
> mechanisms have to be enhanced to support P2MP TE LSP setup.
> 
> We propose that MPLS be enhanced to setup P2MP TE LSPs. This should be
> achieved
> without running a multicast routing protocol in the network core and
with
> maximum
> re-use of the existing MPLS protocols. A P2MP LSP will be setup with
TE
> constraints and will allow efficient packet replication at various
branching
> points in the network. RSVP-TE will be used for setting up a P2MP LSP
with
> enhancements to existing P2P TE LSP procedures. The P2MP TE LSP setup
> mechanism
> will include the ability to add/remove receivers to/from an existing
P2MP
> LSP.
> 
> The MPLS WG will specify only how to setup a P2MP TE LSP. The usage of
this
> will
> be application dependent.
> 
> (Milestones)
> 
> To produce a requirement draft that specifies the scope, requirements,
and
> issues
> to resolve for this enhancement by Minneapolis 2003 meeting.
> 
> To produce a small number of solution draft(s) which specify protocol
> extensions,
> enhancements and mechanisms to fill the requirement and solve the
above
> problem
> by spring 2004 IETF meeting. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  (Example)
> 
>      Consider the following figure.
> 
>                         Source 1 (S1)
>                                |
>                               PE1
>                              |   |
>                              |   |
>                  R2----PE3--P1   P2---PE2--Receiver 1 (R1)
>                              |
>                             PE4----R3
>                              |
>                              |
>                             R4
> 
>                            Figure 1.
> 
>       The above figure shows PE1, PE2, PE3 and PE4. PE1 is attached to
a
> traffic
> source that is generating traffic for a P2MP application. PE2, PE3 and
PE4
> are
> attached to receivers that are interested in receiving traffic for the
> application. The following are the objectives that we wish to achieve:
> 
>       a) Set up a P2MP TE LSP from PE1 to PE2, PE3 and PE4.
>       b) Packet replication should be efficient. In this case, the
branch
> node P1
>          should replicate incoming packets and send them to PE3 and
PE4.
>       c) The P2MP TE LSP should be setup by enhancing existing RSVP-TE
P2P
>          procedures and without running a multicast routing protocol
in the
>          network core.
> 
> 

-- 
Loa Andersson

Mobile          +46 739 81 21 64
Email           loa@pi.se



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Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 02:13:59 -0400
From: Yuichi Ikejiri <y.ikejiri@ntt.com>
To: "'Loa Andersson '" <loa@pi.se>, "'mpls@UU.NET '" <mpls@UU.NET>
Subject: Re: Invitation to discuss: "P2MP problem statement"
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Hi all,

I strongly support this P2MP problem statement, then request it to be
added in the charter. I think the requirement from the SPs perspective
is well reflected in this document.

Yuichi Ikejiri
NTT Communications 

On Mon, 08 Sep 2003 10:06:21 +0530
"S Mahadevan-A19066" <mahadevan.s@motorola.com> wrote:

> Loa,
> 
> Thats a very interesting problem. P2MP LSP should have a lot of
> interesting applications! I strongly endorse adding this problem
> to the charter..
> 
> Regards
> Mahadevan Sankar
> Motorola-India.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Loa Andersson
> To: Kullberg Alan-G19424; mpls@UU.NET
> Sent: 8/14/03 3:04 AM
> Subject: Invitation to discuss: "P2MP problem statement"
> 
> Alan + both teams,
> 
> thanks for preparing this!
> 
> Working Group,
> 
> below you will find the p2mp problem statement prepared by the
> autors behind the drafts:
>     draft-yasukawa-mpls-rsvp-p2mp-02.txt
>     draft-raggarwa-mpls-p2mp-te-00.txt
> 
> I would like to have your response on
> 
> 1. the content of the problem statement
> 2. whether the mpls working group should ask the ADs
>     that a new milestone om p2mp mpls should be added
>     to our charter
> 
> If there is support we plan to take this as an separate item
> (not include it in the more general charter update) to the
> ADs. Again this is a question for which I would like boths
> the pros and cons to speak up. Silence will not be interpreted
> (one way or another).
> 
> /Loa
> 
> Kullberg Alan-G19424 wrote:
> > Loa & George,
> > 
> > Below is a problem statement for point-to-multipoint using MPLS.
> > This problem statement has been prepared jointly by the authors
> > of the drafts:
> >   draft-yasukawa-mpls-rsvp-p2mp-02.txt
> >   draft-raggarwa-mpls-p2mp-te-00.txt
> > 
> > Please use this problem statement as a basis to get the MPLS WG
> > charter updated to include P2MP work.
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > Alan
> > 
> > #########################
> > 
> > Problem statement
> > 
> > 
> > Content Distribution (CD), Interactive multi-media (IMM), and VPN
> multicast
> > are
> > applications that are best supported with multicast capabilities.
> > 
> > IP Multicast provides P2MP communication. However, there are no
> Traffic
> > Engineering (TE) capabilities or QoS guarantees with existing IP
> multicast
> > protocols.  Note that diff-serv combined with IP multicast routing is
> not
> > sufficient for P2MP applications for many of the same reasons that it
> is not
> > sufficient for unicast applications - TE and CSPF are required to
> enable and
> > scale the intelligent management of network resources, to prevent
> > congestion, and
> > to enable sub-second rerouting around network failures.
> > 
> > One possible solution would be to setup multiple P2P TE LSPs, one to
> each of
> > the
> > required  egress PEs. This requires replicating incoming packets to
> all the
> > P2P
> > LSPs at the ingress PE to accommodate multipoint communication. This
> is sub-
> > optimal. It places the replication burden on the ingress PE and hence
> has
> > very
> > poor scaling characteristics. It also wastes bandwidth resources,
> memory and
> > MPLS
> > (e.g. label) resources in the network.
> > 
> > Hence, to provide TE for a P2MP application in an efficient manner in
> a
> > large
> > scale environemnt, P2MP TE mechanisms are required.  Existing MPLS P2P
> TE
> > mechanisms have to be enhanced to support P2MP TE LSP setup.
> > 
> > We propose that MPLS be enhanced to setup P2MP TE LSPs. This should be
> > achieved
> > without running a multicast routing protocol in the network core and
> with
> > maximum
> > re-use of the existing MPLS protocols. A P2MP LSP will be setup with
> TE
> > constraints and will allow efficient packet replication at various
> branching
> > points in the network. RSVP-TE will be used for setting up a P2MP LSP
> with
> > enhancements to existing P2P TE LSP procedures. The P2MP TE LSP setup
> > mechanism
> > will include the ability to add/remove receivers to/from an existing
> P2MP
> > LSP.
> > 
> > The MPLS WG will specify only how to setup a P2MP TE LSP. The usage of
> this
> > will
> > be application dependent.
> > 
> > (Milestones)
> > 
> > To produce a requirement draft that specifies the scope, requirements,
> and
> > issues
> > to resolve for this enhancement by Minneapolis 2003 meeting.
> > 
> > To produce a small number of solution draft(s) which specify protocol
> > extensions,
> > enhancements and mechanisms to fill the requirement and solve the
> above
> > problem
> > by spring 2004 IETF meeting. 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >  (Example)
> > 
> >      Consider the following figure.
> > 
> >                         Source 1 (S1)
> >                                |
> >                               PE1
> >                              |   |
> >                              |   |
> >                  R2----PE3--P1   P2---PE2--Receiver 1 (R1)
> >                              |
> >                             PE4----R3
> >                              |
> >                              |
> >                             R4
> > 
> >                            Figure 1.
> > 
> >       The above figure shows PE1, PE2, PE3 and PE4. PE1 is attached to
> a
> > traffic
> > source that is generating traffic for a P2MP application. PE2, PE3 and
> PE4
> > are
> > attached to receivers that are interested in receiving traffic for the
> > application. The following are the objectives that we wish to achieve:
> > 
> >       a) Set up a P2MP TE LSP from PE1 to PE2, PE3 and PE4.
> >       b) Packet replication should be efficient. In this case, the
> branch
> > node P1
> >          should replicate incoming packets and send them to PE3 and
> PE4.
> >       c) The P2MP TE LSP should be setup by enhancing existing RSVP-TE
> P2P
> >          procedures and without running a multicast routing protocol
> in the
> >          network core.
> > 
> > 
> 
> -- 
> Loa Andersson
> 
> Mobile          +46 739 81 21 64
> Email           loa@pi.se
> 




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From owner-mpls@UU.NET  Mon Sep  8 09:28:37 2003
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To: "W. Mark Townsley" <townsley@cisco.com>
cc: andy.malis@tellabs.com, mpls@UU.NET
Subject: Re: wg last call on: draft-ietf-mpls-in-ip-or-gre-02.txt - update 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 03 Sep 2003 18:31:21 +0200."
             <3F561759.8010509@cisco.com> 
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Mark,

> Hi Andy,
> 
> > I'm curious what additional functionality MPLS in L2TPv3 would get you that
> > GRE or direct IP encapsulation doesn't already provide.
> 
> The same two points given in the applicability statement of 
> draft-ietf-mpls-in-ip-or-gre-02.txt for MPLS-in-GRE vs. MPLS-in-IP hold for 
> MPLS-in-L2TPv3 vs. MPLS-in-IP. L2TPv3 also provides a method for thwarting a 
> blind packet insertion attack (in the absence of IPsec) via the Cookie in the
> L2TPv3 header.

The purpose of draft-ietf-mpls-in-ip-or-gre-02.txt is to define how
to run MPLS over (a) IP, and (b) over GRE. That is it.

It is *not* the purpose of the draft to define how to run MPLS over
all possible sorts of tunneling technologies (with L2TPv3 being
just *one* of such tunneling technologies).

Yakov.

P.S. One way to support MPLS over L2TPv3 is to use GRE as an
alternative encapsulation in L2TPv3.


> - Mark
> 
> >
> > At 8/29/2003 10:26 AM -0700, David Meyer wrote:
> >> One thing that would appear to be useful is to generalize the
> >> draft just a bit to  mpls-in-ip-encapsulation and include L2TPv3.
> >>
> >> Dave
> 
> 
> 
> 


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From: "Thomas D. Nadeau" <tnadeau@cisco.com>
To: "'Stefan Winter'" <mail@stefan-winter.de>, <mpls@UU.NET>, <iesg@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: errors in draft-ietf-te-mib-12.txt
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>Hello,
>
>sorry for bothering you again. But during the implementation 
>of the MPLS MIBs 
>I came across some more inconsistencies...
>
>1) concerning data types: mplsTunnelIndex is of syntax 
>mplsTunnelIndex, 
>derived from UNSIGNED32. But the corresponding scalar 
>mplsTunnelIndexNext is 
>of type IndexIntegerNextFree, derived from INTEGER32. I don't 
>think it is a 
>good idea to have different data types for these two.

	We imported the IndexIntegerNextFree
from the Diffserv MIB to re-use their definitions w/o
having to re-define them. I think that the text in the 
description is pretty clear that the value must be either 0 
or a valid value that is consistent with mplsTunnelIndex. 
This means that the value returned cannot be anything other 
than 0 or Unsigned32. 


mplsTunnelIndexNext OBJECT-TYPE
   SYNTAX        IndexIntegerNextFree
   MAX-ACCESS    read-only
   STATUS        current
   DESCRIPTION  
       "This object contains an unused value for
        mplsTunnelIndex, or a zero to indicate
        that none exist.
 
        Note that this object offers an unused value
        for an mplsTunnelIndex value at the ingress 
        side of a tunnel. At other LSRs the value
        of mplsTunnelIndex SHOULD be taken from the
        value signaled by the MPLS signaling protocol.
       "
   ::= { mplsTeObjects 1 }


>2) DESCRIPTION clause of mplsTunnelIndex states "should obtain 
>new values for row creation in this table by reading 
>mplsTunnelIndexNextFree". The scalar in 
>question is not called mplsTunnelIndexNextFree but mplsTunnelIndexNext.

	Typo; will fix.

>BTW, I never got a reply to my comments in message 
>http://cell.onecall.net/mhonarc/mpls/2003-Aug/msg00105.html
>I hope it didn't get lost...

	Good catch. These need to be made consistent. The
param. table no longer exists in the LSR MIB.

 	Will fix all of these after LC is finished.

	--Tom




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I will be on vacation till September 15. I will be
checking email infrequently during this time.

If there are urgent software issues that need attention
in my absence, please contact Hsien Woo.

-Manoj



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From: "Vishal Sharma" <v.sharma@ieee.org>
To: "Loa Andersson" <loa@pi.se>,
        "Kullberg Alan-G19424" <alan.kullberg@motorola.com>, <mpls@UU.NET>
Subject: RE: Invitation to discuss: "P2MP problem statement"
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 00:00:27 -0700
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Loa,

After reading through the problem statement, here are my responses:

i) I think the problem statement is well written, and covers
the objectives of this work appropriately (with just the right
balance of the level to which the WG should address this problem).
Also, this problem could have several applications going forward,
and is probably worth considering by the WG.

ii) I'd vote for the WG asking the ADs to allow the WG to work
on this problem.

-Vishal

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-mpls@UU.NET [mailto:owner-mpls@UU.NET]On Behalf Of Loa
> Andersson
> Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 2:34 PM
> To: Kullberg Alan-G19424; mpls@UU.NET
> Subject: Invitation to discuss: "P2MP problem statement"
>
>
> Alan + both teams,
>
> thanks for preparing this!
>
> Working Group,
>
> below you will find the p2mp problem statement prepared by the
> autors behind the drafts:
>     draft-yasukawa-mpls-rsvp-p2mp-02.txt
>     draft-raggarwa-mpls-p2mp-te-00.txt
>
> I would like to have your response on
>
> 1. the content of the problem statement
> 2. whether the mpls working group should ask the ADs
>     that a new milestone om p2mp mpls should be added
>     to our charter
>
> If there is support we plan to take this as an separate item
> (not include it in the more general charter update) to the
> ADs. Again this is a question for which I would like boths
> the pros and cons to speak up. Silence will not be interpreted
> (one way or another).
>
> /Loa
>
> Kullberg Alan-G19424 wrote:
> > Loa & George,
> >
> > Below is a problem statement for point-to-multipoint using MPLS.
> > This problem statement has been prepared jointly by the authors
> > of the drafts:
> >   draft-yasukawa-mpls-rsvp-p2mp-02.txt
> >   draft-raggarwa-mpls-p2mp-te-00.txt
> >
> > Please use this problem statement as a basis to get the MPLS WG
> > charter updated to include P2MP work.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Alan
> >
> > #########################
> >
> > Problem statement
> >
> >
> > Content Distribution (CD), Interactive multi-media (IMM), and
> VPN multicast
> > are
> > applications that are best supported with multicast capabilities.
> >
> > IP Multicast provides P2MP communication. However, there are no Traffic
> > Engineering (TE) capabilities or QoS guarantees with existing
> IP multicast
> > protocols.  Note that diff-serv combined with IP multicast
> routing is not
> > sufficient for P2MP applications for many of the same reasons
> that it is not
> > sufficient for unicast applications - TE and CSPF are required
> to enable and
> > scale the intelligent management of network resources, to prevent
> > congestion, and
> > to enable sub-second rerouting around network failures.
> >
> > One possible solution would be to setup multiple P2P TE LSPs,
> one to each of
> > the
> > required  egress PEs. This requires replicating incoming
> packets to all the
> > P2P
> > LSPs at the ingress PE to accommodate multipoint communication.
> This is sub-
> > optimal. It places the replication burden on the ingress PE and
> hence has
> > very
> > poor scaling characteristics. It also wastes bandwidth
> resources, memory and
> > MPLS
> > (e.g. label) resources in the network.
> >
> > Hence, to provide TE for a P2MP application in an efficient manner in a
> > large
> > scale environemnt, P2MP TE mechanisms are required.  Existing
> MPLS P2P TE
> > mechanisms have to be enhanced to support P2MP TE LSP setup.
> >
> > We propose that MPLS be enhanced to setup P2MP TE LSPs. This should be
> > achieved
> > without running a multicast routing protocol in the network
> core and with
> > maximum
> > re-use of the existing MPLS protocols. A P2MP LSP will be setup with TE
> > constraints and will allow efficient packet replication at
> various branching
> > points in the network. RSVP-TE will be used for setting up a
> P2MP LSP with
> > enhancements to existing P2P TE LSP procedures. The P2MP TE LSP setup
> > mechanism
> > will include the ability to add/remove receivers to/from an
> existing P2MP
> > LSP.
> >
> > The MPLS WG will specify only how to setup a P2MP TE LSP. The
> usage of this
> > will
> > be application dependent.
> >
> > (Milestones)
> >
> > To produce a requirement draft that specifies the scope,
> requirements, and
> > issues
> > to resolve for this enhancement by Minneapolis 2003 meeting.
> >
> > To produce a small number of solution draft(s) which specify protocol
> > extensions,
> > enhancements and mechanisms to fill the requirement and solve the above
> > problem
> > by spring 2004 IETF meeting.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >  (Example)
> >
> >      Consider the following figure.
> >
> >                         Source 1 (S1)
> >                                |
> >                               PE1
> >                              |   |
> >                              |   |
> >                  R2----PE3--P1   P2---PE2--Receiver 1 (R1)
> >                              |
> >                             PE4----R3
> >                              |
> >                              |
> >                             R4
> >
> >                            Figure 1.
> >
> >       The above figure shows PE1, PE2, PE3 and PE4. PE1 is attached to a
> > traffic
> > source that is generating traffic for a P2MP application. PE2,
> PE3 and PE4
> > are
> > attached to receivers that are interested in receiving traffic for the
> > application. The following are the objectives that we wish to achieve:
> >
> >       a) Set up a P2MP TE LSP from PE1 to PE2, PE3 and PE4.
> >       b) Packet replication should be efficient. In this case,
> the branch
> > node P1
> >          should replicate incoming packets and send them to PE3 and PE4.
> >       c) The P2MP TE LSP should be setup by enhancing existing
> RSVP-TE P2P
> >          procedures and without running a multicast routing
> protocol in the
> >          network core.
> >
> >
>
> --
> Loa Andersson
>
> Mobile          +46 739 81 21 64
> Email           loa@pi.se
>
>




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To: ietf-secretariat <ietf-secretariat@ietf.org>, mpls@UU.NET,
        Alex Zinin <zinin@PSG.COM>
CC: George Swallow <swallow@cisco.com>
Subject: Invitation to discuss: "P2MP problem statement" - decision
References: <B55C86C1F70D1B458EAA86678EBCB42D09A361@ftrdmel2.rd.francetelecom.fr>
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WG,

I have the working group consensus to ask the ADs to
add the p-2-mp milestones to our charter. In fact we
have only seen support :).

Alex,

could you start the process to add the following milestone
the the mpls wg charter.

Milestones

- produce a requirement specification that defines the scope,
   requirements, and issues to resolve for how to setup a P2MP TE LSPs
   by Minneapolis 2003 meeting.

- produce a small number of solution draft(s) which specify protocol
   extensions, enhancements and mechanisms for P2MP TE LSPs by spring
   2004 IETF meeting.


/Loa

-- 
Loa Andersson

Mobile          +46 739 81 21 64
Email           loa@pi.se




From owner-mpls@UU.NET  Tue Sep  9 15:24:23 2003
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Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 11:03:52 -0700
To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.se>, mpls@UU.NET
From: raymond zhang <zhangr@info.net>
Subject: Re: Invitation to discuss: "P2MP problem statement"
Cc: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.se>
In-Reply-To: <3F559A12.5080500@pi.se>
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Hi Loa,

Indeed the problem statement is well written.  A multcast MPLS TE facility 
will further enhance SP's ability to integrate real-time multicast traffic 
into our current QoS matrix with fast recovery.   I am in support of adding 
this item to the WG charter.

Regards,
Raymond

At 09:36 AM 9/3/2003 +0200, Loa Andersson wrote:
>Working Group,
>
>it is almost three weeks since I sent this "invitation to
>discuss the P2MP probelm statement". The tendency has been
>mostly in favor of adding p2mp mpls as a new milestone to
>our charter, but the discussion has not been that active,
>so it is hard to decide one way or another. Apart from the
>authors (the author groups is about 12 people) it is only
>one person that has taken part in the discussion.
>
>I'm aware of that we had a mailing list problem, but it is
>my take that the mails gone through eventually, if you think
>this is wrong please resend.
>
>Before deciding I would like a quick "show of hands", just
>positive or negative. If you have reasons not to send your
>response to the list, you may send it directly to me.
>
>I plan to make the call mid-next week.
>
>/Loa
>
>Loa Andersson wrote:
>
>>Alan + both teams,
>>thanks for preparing this!
>>Working Group,
>>below you will find the p2mp problem statement prepared by the
>>autors behind the drafts:
>>    draft-yasukawa-mpls-rsvp-p2mp-02.txt
>>    draft-raggarwa-mpls-p2mp-te-00.txt
>>I would like to have your response on
>>1. the content of the problem statement
>>2. whether the mpls working group should ask the ADs
>>    that a new milestone om p2mp mpls should be added
>>    to our charter
>>If there is support we plan to take this as an separate item
>>(not include it in the more general charter update) to the
>>ADs. Again this is a question for which I would like boths
>>the pros and cons to speak up. Silence will not be interpreted
>>(one way or another).
>>/Loa
>>Kullberg Alan-G19424 wrote:
>>
>>>Loa & George,
>>>
>>>Below is a problem statement for point-to-multipoint using MPLS.
>>>This problem statement has been prepared jointly by the authors
>>>of the drafts:
>>>   draft-yasukawa-mpls-rsvp-p2mp-02.txt
>>>   draft-raggarwa-mpls-p2mp-te-00.txt
>>>
>>>Please use this problem statement as a basis to get the MPLS WG
>>>charter updated to include P2MP work.
>>>
>>>Thanks,
>>>Alan
>>>
>>>#########################
>>>
>>>Problem statement
>>>
>>>
>>>Content Distribution (CD), Interactive multi-media (IMM), and VPN multicast
>>>are
>>>applications that are best supported with multicast capabilities.
>>>
>>>IP Multicast provides P2MP communication. However, there are no Traffic
>>>Engineering (TE) capabilities or QoS guarantees with existing IP multicast
>>>protocols.  Note that diff-serv combined with IP multicast routing is not
>>>sufficient for P2MP applications for many of the same reasons that it is not
>>>sufficient for unicast applications - TE and CSPF are required to enable and
>>>scale the intelligent management of network resources, to prevent
>>>congestion, and
>>>to enable sub-second rerouting around network failures.
>>>
>>>One possible solution would be to setup multiple P2P TE LSPs, one to each of
>>>the
>>>required  egress PEs. This requires replicating incoming packets to all the
>>>P2P
>>>LSPs at the ingress PE to accommodate multipoint communication. This is sub-
>>>optimal. It places the replication burden on the ingress PE and hence has
>>>very
>>>poor scaling characteristics. It also wastes bandwidth resources, memory and
>>>MPLS
>>>(e.g. label) resources in the network.
>>>
>>>Hence, to provide TE for a P2MP application in an efficient manner in a
>>>large
>>>scale environemnt, P2MP TE mechanisms are required.  Existing MPLS P2P TE
>>>mechanisms have to be enhanced to support P2MP TE LSP setup.
>>>
>>>We propose that MPLS be enhanced to setup P2MP TE LSPs. This should be
>>>achieved
>>>without running a multicast routing protocol in the network core and with
>>>maximum
>>>re-use of the existing MPLS protocols. A P2MP LSP will be setup with TE
>>>constraints and will allow efficient packet replication at various branching
>>>points in the network. RSVP-TE will be used for setting up a P2MP LSP with
>>>enhancements to existing P2P TE LSP procedures. The P2MP TE LSP setup
>>>mechanism
>>>will include the ability to add/remove receivers to/from an existing P2MP
>>>LSP.
>>>
>>>The MPLS WG will specify only how to setup a P2MP TE LSP. The usage of this
>>>will
>>>be application dependent.
>>>
>>>(Milestones)
>>>
>>>To produce a requirement draft that specifies the scope, requirements, and
>>>issues
>>>to resolve for this enhancement by Minneapolis 2003 meeting.
>>>
>>>To produce a small number of solution draft(s) which specify protocol
>>>extensions,
>>>enhancements and mechanisms to fill the requirement and solve the above
>>>problem
>>>by spring 2004 IETF meeting.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  (Example)
>>>
>>>      Consider the following figure.
>>>
>>>                         Source 1 (S1)
>>>                                |
>>>                               PE1
>>>                              |   |
>>>                              |   |
>>>                  R2----PE3--P1   P2---PE2--Receiver 1 (R1)
>>>                              |
>>>                             PE4----R3
>>>                              |
>>>                              |
>>>                             R4
>>>
>>>                            Figure 1.
>>>
>>>       The above figure shows PE1, PE2, PE3 and PE4. PE1 is attached to a
>>>traffic
>>>source that is generating traffic for a P2MP application. PE2, PE3 and PE4
>>>are
>>>attached to receivers that are interested in receiving traffic for the
>>>application. The following are the objectives that we wish to achieve:
>>>
>>>       a) Set up a P2MP TE LSP from PE1 to PE2, PE3 and PE4.
>>>       b) Packet replication should be efficient. In this case, the branch
>>>node P1
>>>          should replicate incoming packets and send them to PE3 and PE4.
>>>       c) The P2MP TE LSP should be setup by enhancing existing RSVP-TE P2P
>>>          procedures and without running a multicast routing protocol in the
>>>          network core.
>>>
>
>--
>Loa Andersson
>
>Mobile          +46 739 81 21 64
>Email           loa@pi.se
>
>




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To: Yakov Rekhter <yakov@juniper.net>
CC: andy.malis@tellabs.com, mpls@UU.NET
Subject: Re: wg last call on: draft-ietf-mpls-in-ip-or-gre-02.txt - update
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Yakov Rekhter wrote:
> Mark,
> 
> 
>>Hi Andy,
>>
>>
>>>I'm curious what additional functionality MPLS in L2TPv3 would get you that
>>>GRE or direct IP encapsulation doesn't already provide.
>>
>>The same two points given in the applicability statement of 
>>draft-ietf-mpls-in-ip-or-gre-02.txt for MPLS-in-GRE vs. MPLS-in-IP hold for 
>>MPLS-in-L2TPv3 vs. MPLS-in-IP. L2TPv3 also provides a method for thwarting a 
>>blind packet insertion attack (in the absence of IPsec) via the Cookie in the
>>L2TPv3 header.
> 
> 
> The purpose of draft-ietf-mpls-in-ip-or-gre-02.txt is to define how
> to run MPLS over (a) IP, and (b) over GRE. That is it.
> 
> It is *not* the purpose of the draft to define how to run MPLS over
> all possible sorts of tunneling technologies (with L2TPv3 being
> just *one* of such tunneling technologies).

Yakov,

The purpose of my email was simply to answer a direct question from Andy.

However, more to your point, as long as the GRE or IP draft is not shutting
the door to L2TPv3, I personally don't mind it being defined in a separate
document.

- Mark

> 
> Yakov.
> 
> P.S. One way to support MPLS over L2TPv3 is to use GRE as an
> alternative encapsulation in L2TPv3.
> 
> 
> 
>>- Mark
>>
>>
>>>At 8/29/2003 10:26 AM -0700, David Meyer wrote:
>>>
>>>>One thing that would appear to be useful is to generalize the
>>>>draft just a bit to  mpls-in-ip-encapsulation and include L2TPv3.
>>>>
>>>>Dave
>>
>>
>>
>>
> 



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Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 15:21:48 -0400
To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.se>
From: Lou Berger <lberger@movaz.com>
Subject: Re: Invitation to discuss: "P2MP problem statement" - decision
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Loa,
         Just want to clarify a point:  Do P2MP TE LSPs include all GMPLS 
switching types or just PSC?  I think inclusion of all types is 
important/goodness.

Thanks,
Lou

At 01:04 PM 9/9/2003, Loa Andersson wrote:

>WG,
>
>I have the working group consensus to ask the ADs to
>add the p-2-mp milestones to our charter. In fact we
>have only seen support :).
>
>Alex,
>
>could you start the process to add the following milestone
>the the mpls wg charter.
>
>Milestones
>
>- produce a requirement specification that defines the scope,
>   requirements, and issues to resolve for how to setup a P2MP TE LSPs
>   by Minneapolis 2003 meeting.
>
>- produce a small number of solution draft(s) which specify protocol
>   extensions, enhancements and mechanisms for P2MP TE LSPs by spring
>   2004 IETF meeting.
>
>
>/Loa
>
>--
>Loa Andersson
>
>Mobile          +46 739 81 21 64
>Email           loa@pi.se
>



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Reply-To: <dcheng@cisco.com>
From: "Dean Cheng \(dcheng\)" <dcheng@cisco.com>
To: "'Lou Berger'" <lberger@movaz.com>, "'Loa Andersson'" <loa@pi.se>
Cc: <mpls@UU.NET>
Subject: RE: Invitation to discuss: "P2MP problem statement" - decision
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 14:37:53 -0700
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Lou,

   Yes it does. In fact, the P2MP TE LSPs can be used in
   both packet based (MPLS) or non-packet based (GMPLS)
   networks, as originally intended.

Dean

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-mpls@UU.NET [mailto:owner-mpls@UU.NET] On Behalf Of Lou
Berger
Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2003 12:22 PM
To: Loa Andersson
Cc: mpls@UU.NET
Subject: Re: Invitation to discuss: "P2MP problem statement" - decision


Loa,
         Just want to clarify a point:  Do P2MP TE LSPs include all
GMPLS 
switching types or just PSC?  I think inclusion of all types is 
important/goodness.

Thanks,
Lou

At 01:04 PM 9/9/2003, Loa Andersson wrote:

>WG,
>
>I have the working group consensus to ask the ADs to
>add the p-2-mp milestones to our charter. In fact we
>have only seen support :).
>
>Alex,
>
>could you start the process to add the following milestone
>the the mpls wg charter.
>
>Milestones
>
>- produce a requirement specification that defines the scope,
>   requirements, and issues to resolve for how to setup a P2MP TE LSPs
>   by Minneapolis 2003 meeting.
>
>- produce a small number of solution draft(s) which specify protocol
>   extensions, enhancements and mechanisms for P2MP TE LSPs by spring
>   2004 IETF meeting.
>
>
>/Loa
>
>--
>Loa Andersson
>
>Mobile          +46 739 81 21 64
>Email           loa@pi.se
>



From owner-mpls@UU.NET  Tue Sep  9 19:10:44 2003
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CC: "'Lou Berger'" <lberger@movaz.com>, mpls@UU.NET
Subject: Re: Invitation to discuss: "P2MP problem statement" - decision
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Lou and Dean,

I guess this is what should be classified as "good question".
What Dean says about the possibility to use the P2MP TE LSPs
both in packet based and non-packet based networks is true.
When it comes to the scope of what the MPLS working group
will define it could be another matter, extending this to
include specifications that are applicable for non-packet
based networks would require that we explicitly says so in
the wg charter and that it is OKed by the ADs.

Having said this it is my opinion that we should do the work
only once and in the mpls wg.

/Loa

Dean Cheng (dcheng) wrote:

> Lou,
> 
>    Yes it does. In fact, the P2MP TE LSPs can be used in
>    both packet based (MPLS) or non-packet based (GMPLS)
>    networks, as originally intended.
> 
> Dean
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-mpls@UU.NET [mailto:owner-mpls@UU.NET] On Behalf Of Lou
> Berger
> Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2003 12:22 PM
> To: Loa Andersson
> Cc: mpls@UU.NET
> Subject: Re: Invitation to discuss: "P2MP problem statement" - decision
> 
> 
> Loa,
>          Just want to clarify a point:  Do P2MP TE LSPs include all
> GMPLS 
> switching types or just PSC?  I think inclusion of all types is 
> important/goodness.
> 
> Thanks,
> Lou
> 
> At 01:04 PM 9/9/2003, Loa Andersson wrote:
> 
> 
>>WG,
>>
>>I have the working group consensus to ask the ADs to
>>add the p-2-mp milestones to our charter. In fact we
>>have only seen support :).
>>
>>Alex,
>>
>>could you start the process to add the following milestone
>>the the mpls wg charter.
>>
>>Milestones
>>
>>- produce a requirement specification that defines the scope,
>>  requirements, and issues to resolve for how to setup a P2MP TE LSPs
>>  by Minneapolis 2003 meeting.
>>
>>- produce a small number of solution draft(s) which specify protocol
>>  extensions, enhancements and mechanisms for P2MP TE LSPs by spring
>>  2004 IETF meeting.
>>
>>
>>/Loa
>>
>>--
>>Loa Andersson
>>
>>Mobile          +46 739 81 21 64
>>Email           loa@pi.se
>>
> 
> 
> 
> 

-- 
Loa Andersson

Mobile          +46 739 81 21 64
Email           loa@pi.se




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	One comment below.

>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-mpls@UU.NET [mailto:owner-mpls@UU.NET] On Behalf 
>Of Wijnen, Bert (Bert)
>Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2003 2:11 PM
>To: 'Stefan Winter'; mpls@UU.NET; iesg@ietf.org
>Subject: RE: errors in draft-ietf-te-mib-12.txt
>
>
>Inline
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Stefan Winter [mailto:mail@stefan-winter.de]
>> Sent: zondag 7 september 2003 9:46
>> To: mpls@UU.NET; iesg@ietf.org
>> Subject: errors in draft-ietf-te-mib-12.txt
>> 
>> 
>> Hello,
>> 
>> sorry for bothering you again. But during the implementation 
>> of the MPLS MIBs I came across some more inconsistencies...
>> 
>> 1) concerning data types: mplsTunnelIndex is of syntax 
>mplsTunnelIndex, 
>> derived from UNSIGNED32. But the corresponding scalar 
>mplsTunnelIndexNext is 
>> of type IndexIntegerNextFree, derived from INTEGER32. I 
>don't think it is a 
>> good idea to have different data types for these two.
>> 
>That would indeed not be a good idea, but as far as I can tell,
>IndexIntegerNextFree is also an Unsigned32, as per this snippet
>from RFC3289, where it is IMPORted from:
>
>  IndexIntegerNextFree ::= TEXTUAL-CONVENTION
>    DISPLAY-HINT "d"
>    STATUS   current
>    DESCRIPTION
>       "An integer which may be used as a new Index in a table.
>
>       The special value of 0 indicates that no more new entries can be
>       created in the relevant table.
>
>       When a MIB is used for configuration, an object with this SYNTAX
>       always contains a legal value (if non-zero) for an index that is
>       not currently used in the relevant table. The Command Generator
>       (Network Management Application) reads this variable 
>and uses the
>       (non-zero) value read when creating a new row with an SNMP SET.
>       When the SET is performed, the Command Responder (agent) must
>       determine whether the value is indeed still unused; Two Network
>       Management Applications may attempt to create a row
>       (configuration entry) simultaneously and use the same value. If
>       it is currently unused, the SET succeeds and the Command
>       Responder (agent) changes the value of this object, according to
>       an implementation-specific algorithm.  If the value is in use,
>       however, the SET fails.  The Network Management Application must
>       then re-read this variable to obtain a new usable value.
>
>       An OBJECT-TYPE definition using this SYNTAX MUST specify the
>       relevant table for which the object is providing this
>       functionality."
>    SYNTAX   Unsigned32 (0..4294967295)
>
>Now, since MplsTunnelIndex has a range of (0..65535). It might indeed
>be a good idea to change:
>  mplsTunnelIndexNext OBJECT-TYPE
>     SYNTAX        IndexIntegerNextFree
>into:
>  mplsTunnelIndexNext OBJECT-TYPE
>     SYNTAX        IndexIntegerNextFree (0..65535)
>So that it is inline with the range that a real tunnel index can get.

	If this is the recommendation, we can do this.

	--Tom



>> 2) DESCRIPTION clause of mplsTunnelIndex states "should 
>>    obtain new values for row creation in this table by reading 
>>    mplsTunnelIndexNextFree". The scalar in question is not called 
>>    mplsTunnelIndexNextFree but mplsTunnelIndexNext.
>> 
>Good catch! 
>
>Thanks for pointing these out.
>
>> BTW, I never got a reply to my comments in message 
>> http://cell.onecall.net/mhonarc/mpls/2003-Aug/msg00105.html
>> I hope it didn't get lost...
>> 
>I was hoping/assuming that the document authors will indeed
>at least answer, but probably also address your comment in that
>posting. If you can pls keep an eye on it when the next
>revision of the doc comes out, that would be great! 
>
>Bert
>> Greetings,
>> 
>> Stefan Winter
>> 
>> 
>



From owner-mpls@UU.NET  Wed Sep 10 04:32:57 2003
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From: Stefan Winter <mail@stefan-winter.de>
To: mpls@UU.NET, iesg@ietf.org
Subject: glitch in draft-ietf-mpls-lsr-mib-12.txt
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 09:57:14 +0200
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Hello,

( I know it is VERY short before end of last call, but I just came across this 
one...)

the mplsXCTable contains a RowStatus column and an AdminStatus column.
The DESCRIPTION of its RowStatus reads, 
       "When a row in this table has a row in the active(1)
        state, no objects in this row except this object
        and the mplsXCStorageType can be modified."
Which does not make sense. As far as I know, the core purpose of AdminStatus 
is to have the possibility to put an XC offline without having to set the 
entire row to NotInService. But if one cannot modify the AdminStatus once the 
RowStatus is "up", this is not possible.
If the description remains the way it is now, AdminStatus is mostly useless. A 
simple addition like
       "except this object, the mplsXCStorageType
        and the mplsXCAdminStatus can be modified."
would make much more sense.

Greetings,

Stefan Winter



From owner-mpls@UU.NET  Wed Sep 10 09:25:57 2003
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Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: "Loa Andersson" <loa@pi.se>, <dcheng@cisco.com>,
        "'Lou Berger'" <lberger@movaz.com>
Cc: <mpls@UU.NET>
References: <000401c3771a$a03886e0$6cca47ab@amer.cisco.com> <3F5E4E82.5040108@pi.se>
Subject: Re: Invitation to discuss: "P2MP problem statement" - decision
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 13:03:01 +0100
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To summarize the answers I got to this same question when I asked it last month:
the problem statement will be enhanced to cover packet and non-packet traffic

Are we due a revision of the problem statement following the discussions from the last
month?

I also asked that the ADs and CCAMP be consulted on this work. It is unclear to me that
- MPLS should work on something that is not packet oriented
- we should risk a solution in MPLS that does not fit GMPLS
- we should risk inventing new techniques in MPLS when GMPLS techniques
  may already exist.

Adrian

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Loa Andersson" <loa@pi.se>
To: <dcheng@cisco.com>
Cc: "'Lou Berger'" <lberger@movaz.com>; <mpls@UU.NET>
Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2003 11:04 PM
Subject: Re: Invitation to discuss: "P2MP problem statement" - decision


> Lou and Dean,
>
> I guess this is what should be classified as "good question".
> What Dean says about the possibility to use the P2MP TE LSPs
> both in packet based and non-packet based networks is true.
> When it comes to the scope of what the MPLS working group
> will define it could be another matter, extending this to
> include specifications that are applicable for non-packet
> based networks would require that we explicitly says so in
> the wg charter and that it is OKed by the ADs.
>
> Having said this it is my opinion that we should do the work
> only once and in the mpls wg.
>
> /Loa
>
> Dean Cheng (dcheng) wrote:
>
> > Lou,
> >
> >    Yes it does. In fact, the P2MP TE LSPs can be used in
> >    both packet based (MPLS) or non-packet based (GMPLS)
> >    networks, as originally intended.
> >
> > Dean
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-mpls@UU.NET [mailto:owner-mpls@UU.NET] On Behalf Of Lou
> > Berger
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2003 12:22 PM
> > To: Loa Andersson
> > Cc: mpls@UU.NET
> > Subject: Re: Invitation to discuss: "P2MP problem statement" - decision
> >
> >
> > Loa,
> >          Just want to clarify a point:  Do P2MP TE LSPs include all
> > GMPLS
> > switching types or just PSC?  I think inclusion of all types is
> > important/goodness.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Lou
> >
> > At 01:04 PM 9/9/2003, Loa Andersson wrote:
> >
> >
> >>WG,
> >>
> >>I have the working group consensus to ask the ADs to
> >>add the p-2-mp milestones to our charter. In fact we
> >>have only seen support :).
> >>
> >>Alex,
> >>
> >>could you start the process to add the following milestone
> >>the the mpls wg charter.
> >>
> >>Milestones
> >>
> >>- produce a requirement specification that defines the scope,
> >>  requirements, and issues to resolve for how to setup a P2MP TE LSPs
> >>  by Minneapolis 2003 meeting.
> >>
> >>- produce a small number of solution draft(s) which specify protocol
> >>  extensions, enhancements and mechanisms for P2MP TE LSPs by spring
> >>  2004 IETF meeting.
> >>
> >>
> >>/Loa
> >>
> >>--
> >>Loa Andersson
> >>
> >>Mobile          +46 739 81 21 64
> >>Email           loa@pi.se
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> -- 
> Loa Andersson
>
> Mobile          +46 739 81 21 64
> Email           loa@pi.se
>
>
>



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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Multiprotocol Label Switching Working Group of the IETF.

	Title		: Encapsulating MPLS in IP or Generic Routing Encapsulation (GRE)
	Author(s)	: Y. Rekhter, E. Rosen
	Filename	: draft-ietf-mpls-in-ip-or-gre-03.txt
	Pages		: 9
	Date		: 2003-9-10
	
In various applications of MPLS, label stacks with multiple entries
are used.  In some cases, it is possible to replace the top label of
the stack with an IP-based encapsulation, thereby enabling the
application to run over networks which do not have MPLS enabled in
their core routers.  This draft specifies two IP-based
encapsulations, MPLS-in-IP, and MPLS-in-GRE.  Each of these is
applicable in some circumstances.

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Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 14:41:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: Rahul Aggarwal <rahul@juniper.net>
To: Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
cc: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.se>, "" <dcheng@cisco.com>,
        "'Lou Berger'" <lberger@movaz.com>, "" <mpls@UU.NET>
Subject: Re: Invitation to discuss: "P2MP problem statement" - decision
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On Wed, 10 Sep 2003, Adrian Farrel wrote:

> To summarize the answers I got to this same question when I asked it last month:
> the problem statement will be enhanced to cover packet and non-packet traffic
>

I am in favor of that as we discusssed last month. The problem statement
should be generic.

> Are we due a revision of the problem statement following the discussions from the last
> month?

The intention was to incorporate the problem statement in the requirements
draft, along with the changes.

rahul

>
> I also asked that the ADs and CCAMP be consulted on this work. It is unclear to me that
> - MPLS should work on something that is not packet oriented
> - we should risk a solution in MPLS that does not fit GMPLS
> - we should risk inventing new techniques in MPLS when GMPLS techniques
>   may already exist.
>
> Adrian
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Loa Andersson" <loa@pi.se>
> To: <dcheng@cisco.com>
> Cc: "'Lou Berger'" <lberger@movaz.com>; <mpls@UU.NET>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2003 11:04 PM
> Subject: Re: Invitation to discuss: "P2MP problem statement" - decision
>
>
> > Lou and Dean,
> >
> > I guess this is what should be classified as "good question".
> > What Dean says about the possibility to use the P2MP TE LSPs
> > both in packet based and non-packet based networks is true.
> > When it comes to the scope of what the MPLS working group
> > will define it could be another matter, extending this to
> > include specifications that are applicable for non-packet
> > based networks would require that we explicitly says so in
> > the wg charter and that it is OKed by the ADs.
> >
> > Having said this it is my opinion that we should do the work
> > only once and in the mpls wg.
> >
> > /Loa
> >
> > Dean Cheng (dcheng) wrote:
> >
> > > Lou,
> > >
> > >    Yes it does. In fact, the P2MP TE LSPs can be used in
> > >    both packet based (MPLS) or non-packet based (GMPLS)
> > >    networks, as originally intended.
> > >
> > > Dean
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-mpls@UU.NET [mailto:owner-mpls@UU.NET] On Behalf Of Lou
> > > Berger
> > > Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2003 12:22 PM
> > > To: Loa Andersson
> > > Cc: mpls@UU.NET
> > > Subject: Re: Invitation to discuss: "P2MP problem statement" - decision
> > >
> > >
> > > Loa,
> > >          Just want to clarify a point:  Do P2MP TE LSPs include all
> > > GMPLS
> > > switching types or just PSC?  I think inclusion of all types is
> > > important/goodness.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Lou
> > >
> > > At 01:04 PM 9/9/2003, Loa Andersson wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >>WG,
> > >>
> > >>I have the working group consensus to ask the ADs to
> > >>add the p-2-mp milestones to our charter. In fact we
> > >>have only seen support :).
> > >>
> > >>Alex,
> > >>
> > >>could you start the process to add the following milestone
> > >>the the mpls wg charter.
> > >>
> > >>Milestones
> > >>
> > >>- produce a requirement specification that defines the scope,
> > >>  requirements, and issues to resolve for how to setup a P2MP TE LSPs
> > >>  by Minneapolis 2003 meeting.
> > >>
> > >>- produce a small number of solution draft(s) which specify protocol
> > >>  extensions, enhancements and mechanisms for P2MP TE LSPs by spring
> > >>  2004 IETF meeting.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>/Loa
> > >>
> > >>--
> > >>Loa Andersson
> > >>
> > >>Mobile          +46 739 81 21 64
> > >>Email           loa@pi.se
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --
> > Loa Andersson
> >
> > Mobile          +46 739 81 21 64
> > Email           loa@pi.se
> >
> >
> >
>
>


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From: "LE ROUX Jean-Louis FTRD/DAC/LAN" <jeanlouis.leroux@rd.francetelecom.com>
To: "Loa Andersson" <loa@pi.se>,
        "Kullberg Alan-G19424" <alan.kullberg@motorola.com>, <mpls@UU.NET>
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Hi Loa and all

1: This problem statement is IMHO very well written, and fits our
expectations.
As Adrian mentionned earlier, it could be good to highlight that routing
and tree computation are out of the scope.

2: I'm in favor of adding this item in the charter.

JL =20

-----Message d'origine-----
De : Loa Andersson [mailto:loa@pi.se]
Envoye : mercredi 13 aout 2003 23:34
A : Kullberg Alan-G19424; mpls@UU.NET
Objet : Invitation to discuss: "P2MP problem statement"


Alan + both teams,

thanks for preparing this!

Working Group,

below you will find the p2mp problem statement prepared by the
autors behind the drafts:
    draft-yasukawa-mpls-rsvp-p2mp-02.txt
    draft-raggarwa-mpls-p2mp-te-00.txt

I would like to have your response on

1. the content of the problem statement
2. whether the mpls working group should ask the ADs
    that a new milestone om p2mp mpls should be added
    to our charter

If there is support we plan to take this as an separate item
(not include it in the more general charter update) to the
ADs. Again this is a question for which I would like boths
the pros and cons to speak up. Silence will not be interpreted
(one way or another).

/Loa

Kullberg Alan-G19424 wrote:
> Loa & George,
>=20
> Below is a problem statement for point-to-multipoint using MPLS.
> This problem statement has been prepared jointly by the authors
> of the drafts:
>   draft-yasukawa-mpls-rsvp-p2mp-02.txt
>   draft-raggarwa-mpls-p2mp-te-00.txt
>=20
> Please use this problem statement as a basis to get the MPLS WG
> charter updated to include P2MP work.
>=20
> Thanks,
> Alan
>=20
> #########################
>=20
> Problem statement
>=20
>=20
> Content Distribution (CD), Interactive multi-media (IMM), and VPN
multicast
> are
> applications that are best supported with multicast capabilities.
>=20
> IP Multicast provides P2MP communication. However, there are no
Traffic
> Engineering (TE) capabilities or QoS guarantees with existing IP
multicast
> protocols.  Note that diff-serv combined with IP multicast routing is
not
> sufficient for P2MP applications for many of the same reasons that it
is not
> sufficient for unicast applications - TE and CSPF are required to
enable and
> scale the intelligent management of network resources, to prevent
> congestion, and
> to enable sub-second rerouting around network failures.
>=20
> One possible solution would be to setup multiple P2P TE LSPs, one to
each of
> the
> required  egress PEs. This requires replicating incoming packets to
all the
> P2P
> LSPs at the ingress PE to accommodate multipoint communication. This
is sub-
> optimal. It places the replication burden on the ingress PE and hence
has
> very
> poor scaling characteristics. It also wastes bandwidth resources,
memory and
> MPLS
> (e.g. label) resources in the network.
>=20
> Hence, to provide TE for a P2MP application in an efficient manner in
a
> large
> scale environemnt, P2MP TE mechanisms are required.  Existing MPLS P2P
TE
> mechanisms have to be enhanced to support P2MP TE LSP setup.
>=20
> We propose that MPLS be enhanced to setup P2MP TE LSPs. This should be
> achieved
> without running a multicast routing protocol in the network core and
with
> maximum
> re-use of the existing MPLS protocols. A P2MP LSP will be setup with
TE
> constraints and will allow efficient packet replication at various
branching
> points in the network. RSVP-TE will be used for setting up a P2MP LSP
with
> enhancements to existing P2P TE LSP procedures. The P2MP TE LSP setup
> mechanism
> will include the ability to add/remove receivers to/from an existing
P2MP
> LSP.
>=20
> The MPLS WG will specify only how to setup a P2MP TE LSP. The usage of
this
> will
> be application dependent.
>=20
> (Milestones)
>=20
> To produce a requirement draft that specifies the scope, requirements,
and
> issues
> to resolve for this enhancement by Minneapolis 2003 meeting.
>=20
> To produce a small number of solution draft(s) which specify protocol
> extensions,
> enhancements and mechanisms to fill the requirement and solve the
above
> problem
> by spring 2004 IETF meeting.=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>  (Example)
>=20
>      Consider the following figure.
>=20
>                         Source 1 (S1)
>                                |
>                               PE1
>                              |   |
>                              |   |
>                  R2----PE3--P1   P2---PE2--Receiver 1 (R1)
>                              |
>                             PE4----R3
>                              |
>                              |
>                             R4
>=20
>                            Figure 1.
>=20
>       The above figure shows PE1, PE2, PE3 and PE4. PE1 is attached to
a
> traffic
> source that is generating traffic for a P2MP application. PE2, PE3 and
PE4
> are
> attached to receivers that are interested in receiving traffic for the
> application. The following are the objectives that we wish to achieve:
>=20
>       a) Set up a P2MP TE LSP from PE1 to PE2, PE3 and PE4.
>       b) Packet replication should be efficient. In this case, the
branch
> node P1
>          should replicate incoming packets and send them to PE3 and
PE4.
>       c) The P2MP TE LSP should be setup by enhancing existing RSVP-TE
P2P
>          procedures and without running a multicast routing protocol
in the
>          network core.
>=20
>=20

--=20
Loa Andersson

Mobile          +46 739 81 21 64
Email           loa@pi.se




From owner-mpls@UU.NET  Thu Sep 11 07:58:06 2003
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From: "Wijnen, Bert (Bert)" <bwijnen@lucent.com>
To: Stefan Winter <mail@stefan-winter.de>, mpls@UU.NET, iesg@ietf.org
Subject: RE: glitch in draft-ietf-mpls-lsr-mib-12.txt
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 13:05:40 +0200
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You suggested fix makes sense to me.

Thanks,
Bert 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stefan Winter [mailto:mail@stefan-winter.de]
> Sent: woensdag 10 september 2003 9:57
> To: mpls@UU.NET; iesg@ietf.org
> Subject: glitch in draft-ietf-mpls-lsr-mib-12.txt
> 
> 
> Hello,
> 
> ( I know it is VERY short before end of last call, but I just 
> came across this 
> one...)
> 
> the mplsXCTable contains a RowStatus column and an AdminStatus column.
> The DESCRIPTION of its RowStatus reads, 
>        "When a row in this table has a row in the active(1)
>         state, no objects in this row except this object
>         and the mplsXCStorageType can be modified."
> Which does not make sense. As far as I know, the core purpose 
> of AdminStatus 
> is to have the possibility to put an XC offline without 
> having to set the 
> entire row to NotInService. But if one cannot modify the 
> AdminStatus once the 
> RowStatus is "up", this is not possible.
> If the description remains the way it is now, AdminStatus is 
> mostly useless. A 
> simple addition like
>        "except this object, the mplsXCStorageType
>         and the mplsXCAdminStatus can be modified."
> would make much more sense.
> 
> Greetings,
> 
> Stefan Winter
> 


From owner-mpls@UU.NET  Thu Sep 11 08:49:47 2003
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From: "LE ROUX Jean-Louis FTRD/DAC/LAN" <jeanlouis.leroux@rd.francetelecom.com>
To: "Loa Andersson" <loa@pi.se>,
        "Kullberg Alan-G19424" <alan.kullberg@motorola.com>, <mpls@UU.NET>
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Hi Loa and all

1: This problem statement is IMHO very well written, and fits our
expectations.
As Adrian mentionned earlier, it could be good to highlight that routing
and tree computation are out of the scope.

2: I'm in favor of adding this item in the charter.

JL =20

-----Message d'origine-----
De : Loa Andersson [mailto:loa@pi.se]
Envoye : mercredi 13 aout 2003 23:34
A : Kullberg Alan-G19424; mpls@UU.NET
Objet : Invitation to discuss: "P2MP problem statement"


Alan + both teams,

thanks for preparing this!

Working Group,

below you will find the p2mp problem statement prepared by the
autors behind the drafts:
    draft-yasukawa-mpls-rsvp-p2mp-02.txt
    draft-raggarwa-mpls-p2mp-te-00.txt

I would like to have your response on

1. the content of the problem statement
2. whether the mpls working group should ask the ADs
    that a new milestone om p2mp mpls should be added
    to our charter

If there is support we plan to take this as an separate item
(not include it in the more general charter update) to the
ADs. Again this is a question for which I would like boths
the pros and cons to speak up. Silence will not be interpreted
(one way or another).

/Loa

Kullberg Alan-G19424 wrote:
> Loa & George,
>=20
> Below is a problem statement for point-to-multipoint using MPLS.
> This problem statement has been prepared jointly by the authors
> of the drafts:
>   draft-yasukawa-mpls-rsvp-p2mp-02.txt
>   draft-raggarwa-mpls-p2mp-te-00.txt
>=20
> Please use this problem statement as a basis to get the MPLS WG
> charter updated to include P2MP work.
>=20
> Thanks,
> Alan
>=20
> #########################
>=20
> Problem statement
>=20
>=20
> Content Distribution (CD), Interactive multi-media (IMM), and VPN
multicast
> are
> applications that are best supported with multicast capabilities.
>=20
> IP Multicast provides P2MP communication. However, there are no
Traffic
> Engineering (TE) capabilities or QoS guarantees with existing IP
multicast
> protocols.  Note that diff-serv combined with IP multicast routing is
not
> sufficient for P2MP applications for many of the same reasons that it
is not
> sufficient for unicast applications - TE and CSPF are required to
enable and
> scale the intelligent management of network resources, to prevent
> congestion, and
> to enable sub-second rerouting around network failures.
>=20
> One possible solution would be to setup multiple P2P TE LSPs, one to
each of
> the
> required  egress PEs. This requires replicating incoming packets to
all the
> P2P
> LSPs at the ingress PE to accommodate multipoint communication. This
is sub-
> optimal. It places the replication burden on the ingress PE and hence
has
> very
> poor scaling characteristics. It also wastes bandwidth resources,
memory and
> MPLS
> (e.g. label) resources in the network.
>=20
> Hence, to provide TE for a P2MP application in an efficient manner in
a
> large
> scale environemnt, P2MP TE mechanisms are required.  Existing MPLS P2P
TE
> mechanisms have to be enhanced to support P2MP TE LSP setup.
>=20
> We propose that MPLS be enhanced to setup P2MP TE LSPs. This should be
> achieved
> without running a multicast routing protocol in the network core and
with
> maximum
> re-use of the existing MPLS protocols. A P2MP LSP will be setup with
TE
> constraints and will allow efficient packet replication at various
branching
> points in the network. RSVP-TE will be used for setting up a P2MP LSP
with
> enhancements to existing P2P TE LSP procedures. The P2MP TE LSP setup
> mechanism
> will include the ability to add/remove receivers to/from an existing
P2MP
> LSP.
>=20
> The MPLS WG will specify only how to setup a P2MP TE LSP. The usage of
this
> will
> be application dependent.
>=20
> (Milestones)
>=20
> To produce a requirement draft that specifies the scope, requirements,
and
> issues
> to resolve for this enhancement by Minneapolis 2003 meeting.
>=20
> To produce a small number of solution draft(s) which specify protocol
> extensions,
> enhancements and mechanisms to fill the requirement and solve the
above
> problem
> by spring 2004 IETF meeting.=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>  (Example)
>=20
>      Consider the following figure.
>=20
>                         Source 1 (S1)
>                                |
>                               PE1
>                              |   |
>                              |   |
>                  R2----PE3--P1   P2---PE2--Receiver 1 (R1)
>                              |
>                             PE4----R3
>                              |
>                              |
>                             R4
>=20
>                            Figure 1.
>=20
>       The above figure shows PE1, PE2, PE3 and PE4. PE1 is attached to
a
> traffic
> source that is generating traffic for a P2MP application. PE2, PE3 and
PE4
> are
> attached to receivers that are interested in receiving traffic for the
> application. The following are the objectives that we wish to achieve:
>=20
>       a) Set up a P2MP TE LSP from PE1 to PE2, PE3 and PE4.
>       b) Packet replication should be efficient. In this case, the
branch
> node P1
>          should replicate incoming packets and send them to PE3 and
PE4.
>       c) The P2MP TE LSP should be setup by enhancing existing RSVP-TE
P2P
>          procedures and without running a multicast routing protocol
in the
>          network core.
>=20
>=20

--=20
Loa Andersson

Mobile          +46 739 81 21 64
Email           loa@pi.se




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Reply-To: <tnadeau@cisco.com>
From: "Thomas D. Nadeau" <tnadeau@cisco.com>
To: "'Wijnen, Bert \(Bert\)'" <bwijnen@lucent.com>,
        "'Stefan Winter'" <mail@stefan-winter.de>, <mpls@UU.NET>,
        <iesg@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: glitch in draft-ietf-mpls-lsr-mib-12.txt
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 13:16:11 -0400
Organization: Cisco Systems, inc.
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	Cool. Will fix as suggested.

	--Tom


>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-mpls@UU.NET [mailto:owner-mpls@UU.NET] On Behalf 
>Of Wijnen, Bert (Bert)
>Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2003 7:06 AM
>To: Stefan Winter; mpls@UU.NET; iesg@ietf.org
>Subject: RE: glitch in draft-ietf-mpls-lsr-mib-12.txt
>
>
>You suggested fix makes sense to me.
>
>Thanks,
>Bert 
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Stefan Winter [mailto:mail@stefan-winter.de]
>> Sent: woensdag 10 september 2003 9:57
>> To: mpls@UU.NET; iesg@ietf.org
>> Subject: glitch in draft-ietf-mpls-lsr-mib-12.txt
>> 
>> 
>> Hello,
>> 
>> ( I know it is VERY short before end of last call, but I just 
>> came across this 
>> one...)
>> 
>> the mplsXCTable contains a RowStatus column and an 
>AdminStatus column.
>> The DESCRIPTION of its RowStatus reads, 
>>        "When a row in this table has a row in the active(1)
>>         state, no objects in this row except this object
>>         and the mplsXCStorageType can be modified."
>> Which does not make sense. As far as I know, the core purpose 
>> of AdminStatus 
>> is to have the possibility to put an XC offline without 
>> having to set the 
>> entire row to NotInService. But if one cannot modify the 
>> AdminStatus once the 
>> RowStatus is "up", this is not possible.
>> If the description remains the way it is now, AdminStatus is 
>> mostly useless. A 
>> simple addition like
>>        "except this object, the mplsXCStorageType
>>         and the mplsXCAdminStatus can be modified."
>> would make much more sense.
>> 
>> Greetings,
>> 
>> Stefan Winter
>> 
>



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Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 09:21:52 -0400
To: "Loa Andersson" <loa@pi.se>
From: Lou Berger <lberger@movaz.com>
Subject: Re: Invitation to discuss: "P2MP problem statement" - decision
Cc: <dcheng@cisco.com>, "Berger, Lou" <lberger@movaz.com>, <mpls@UU.NET>
In-Reply-To: <3F5E4E82.5040108@pi.se>
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Loa,
         Thanks for the response.  I agree that the work should be done 
only once.   I'm happy for the work to be done in MPLS WG.  If the ADs want 
to move it, that's fine too as the same people will work on it in either case!

Lou

At 06:04 PM 9/9/2003, Loa Andersson wrote:

>Lou and Dean,
>
>I guess this is what should be classified as "good question".
>What Dean says about the possibility to use the P2MP TE LSPs
>both in packet based and non-packet based networks is true.
>When it comes to the scope of what the MPLS working group
>will define it could be another matter, extending this to
>include specifications that are applicable for non-packet
>based networks would require that we explicitly says so in
>the wg charter and that it is OKed by the ADs.
>
>Having said this it is my opinion that we should do the work
>only once and in the mpls wg.
>
>/Loa
>
>Dean Cheng (dcheng) wrote:
>
> > Lou,
> >
> >    Yes it does. In fact, the P2MP TE LSPs can be used in
> >    both packet based (MPLS) or non-packet based (GMPLS)
> >    networks, as originally intended.
> >
> > Dean
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-mpls@UU.NET 
> [<mailto:owner-mpls@UU.NET>mailto:owner-mpls@UU.NET] On Behalf Of Lou
> > Berger
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2003 12:22 PM
> > To: Loa Andersson
> > Cc: mpls@UU.NET
> > Subject: Re: Invitation to discuss: "P2MP problem statement" - decision
> >
> >
> > Loa,
> >          Just want to clarify a point:  Do P2MP TE LSPs include all
> > GMPLS
> > switching types or just PSC?  I think inclusion of all types is
> > important/goodness.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Lou
> >
> > At 01:04 PM 9/9/2003, Loa Andersson wrote:
> >
> >
> >>WG,
> >>
> >>I have the working group consensus to ask the ADs to
> >>add the p-2-mp milestones to our charter. In fact we
> >>have only seen support :).
> >>
> >>Alex,
> >>
> >>could you start the process to add the following milestone
> >>the the mpls wg charter.
> >>
> >>Milestones
> >>
> >>- produce a requirement specification that defines the scope,
> >>  requirements, and issues to resolve for how to setup a P2MP TE LSPs
> >>  by Minneapolis 2003 meeting.
> >>
> >>- produce a small number of solution draft(s) which specify protocol
> >>  extensions, enhancements and mechanisms for P2MP TE LSPs by spring
> >>  2004 IETF meeting.
> >>
> >>
> >>/Loa
> >>
> >>--
> >>Loa Andersson
> >>
> >>Mobile          +46 739 81 21 64
> >>Email           loa@pi.se
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>--
>Loa Andersson
>
>Mobile          +46 739 81 21 64
>Email           loa@pi.se



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From: S Mahadevan-A19066 <mahadevan.s@motorola.com>
To: "'erosen@cisco.com'" <erosen@cisco.com>,
        "'yakov@juniper.net'"
	 <yakov@juniper.net>,
        "'fsb@thefsb.org'" <fsb@thefsb.org>
Cc: "'mpls@UU.net'" <mpls@UU.NET>
Subject: Question in draft-ietf-mpls-in-ip-or-gre-03
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The draft says

   "In some cases, the tunnel head receives, for encapsulation, an IP
   packet, which it first encapsulates in MPLS and then encapsulates in
   MPLS-in-IP or MPLS-in-GRE.  If the source of the IP packet is
   reachable from the tunnel head, and if the result of encapsulating
   the packet in MPLS would be a packet whose size exceeds the Tunnel
   MTU, then the value which the tunnel head SHOULD use for the purposes
   of fragmentation and PMTU discovery outside the tunnel is the Tunnel
   MTU value minus the size of the MPLS encapsulation."

I need a small clarification.. Here, are we talking about the
scenerio were the same node is both an ingress LSR for an
LSP and a Tunnnel Head (according to the definition in this draft)




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To: S Mahadevan-A19066 <mahadevan.s@motorola.com>
cc: "'yakov@juniper.net'" <yakov@juniper.net>,
        "'fsb@thefsb.org'" <fsb@thefsb.org>, "'mpls@UU.net'" <mpls@UU.NET>
Subject: Re: Question in draft-ietf-mpls-in-ip-or-gre-03 
In-reply-to: Your message of Fri, 12 Sep 2003 15:54:01 +0530.
             <2F8E7538CA01D711BC5900B0D079E710013CEF5F@zin03exm01.corp.mot.com> 
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> I need a small clarification.. Here, are we talking about the
> scenario were the same node is both an ingress LSR for an
> LSP and a Tunnnel Head (according to the definition in this draft)

Correct. 


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From: Shahram Davari <Shahram_Davari@pmc-sierra.com>
To: "'mpls@UU.net'" <mpls@UU.NET>
Subject: LLC/SAP value for MPLS
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 08:41:16 -0700
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Hi,
 
Is there any SAP value assigned to MPLS in 802.2 (LLC)?
 
Thanks,

__________________________________________ 
Shahram Davari, B.Eng., M.A.Sc. 
Senior Product Research Engineer 
PMC-Sierra, Inc. 
Tel: (613)271-4018 
Fax: (613)271-6468 
MailTo: Shahram_Davari@pmc-sierra.com 
__________________________________________ 

 

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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=777593915-12092003>Hi,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=777593915-12092003></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=777593915-12092003>Is there any SAP 
value assigned to MPLS in 802.2 (LLC)?</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=777593915-12092003></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
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class=777593915-12092003>Thanks,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P><I><FONT face=Arial 
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face=Arial size=2>Shahram Davari, B.Eng., M.A.Sc.</FONT></B> <BR><B><FONT 
face=Arial size=1>Senior Product Research Engineer</FONT></B> <BR><B><FONT 
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size=1>Tel: (613)271-4018</FONT></I> <BR><I><FONT face=Arial size=1>Fax: 
(613)271-6468</FONT></I> <BR><I><U><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=1>MailTo: 
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To: IETF-Announce:;
Subject: RFC 3612 on Applicability Statement for Restart Mechanisms for the Label Distribution Protocol (LDP)
Cc: rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org, mpls@UU.NET
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--NextPart


A new Request for Comments is now available in online RFC libraries.


        RFC 3612

        Title:      Applicability Statement for Restart Mechanisms
                    for the Label Distribution Protocol (LDP)
        Author(s):  A. Farrel
        Status:     Informational
        Date:       September 2003
        Mailbox:    adrian@olddog.co.uk
        Pages:      16
        Characters: 35677
        Updates/Obsoletes/SeeAlso:    None

        I-D Tag:    draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-restart-applic-01.txt

        URL:        ftp://ftp.rfc-editor.org/in-notes/rfc3612.txt


This document provides guidance on when it is advisable to implement
some form of Label Distribution Protocol (LDP) restart mechanism and
which approach might be more suitable.  The issues and extensions
described in this document are equally applicable to RFC 3212,
"Constraint-Based LSP Setup Using LDP".

This document is a product of the Multiprotocol Label Switching
Working Group of the IETF.

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not specify an Internet standard of any kind.  Distribution of this
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Submissions for Requests for Comments should be sent to
RFC-EDITOR@RFC-EDITOR.ORG.  Please consult RFC 2223, Instructions to RFC
Authors, for further information.


Joyce K. Reynolds and Sandy Ginoza
USC/Information Sciences Institute

...

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From owner-mpls@UU.NET  Sat Sep 13 22:01:53 2003
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From: "Wijnen, Bert (Bert)" <bwijnen@lucent.com>
To: "Mpls (E-mail)" <mpls@UU.NET>
Subject: FW: DT's review of draft-ietf-mpls-telink-mib-04.txt
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Thanks,
Bert 

-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Thaler [mailto:dthaler@windows.microsoft.com]
Sent: zondag 14 september 2003 0:26
To: Wijnen, Bert (Bert); dubuc.consulting@rogers.com; tnadeau@cisco.com;
sudheer@ieee.org; jplang@ieee.org
Cc: Loa Andersson (E-mail); Alex Zinin (E-mail)
Subject: RE: DT's review of draft-ietf-mpls-telink-mib-04.txt


Yes to both.

-Dave

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Wijnen, Bert (Bert) [mailto:bwijnen@lucent.com]
> Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2003 1:21 PM
> To: Dave Thaler; Wijnen, Bert (Bert); dubuc.consulting@rogers.com;
> tnadeau@cisco.com; sudheer@ieee.org; jplang@ieee.org
> Cc: Loa Andersson (E-mail); Alex Zinin (E-mail)
> Subject: RE: DT's review of draft-ietf-mpls-telink-mib-04.txt
> 
> Thanks dave. I think that in the first sentence you also meant
>  draft-ietf-mpls-telink-mib-04.txt.
> 
> I hope it is OK with you to post this to MPLS WG as well?
> 
> Thanks,
> Bert
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Dave Thaler [mailto:dthaler@windows.microsoft.com]
> > Sent: zaterdag 13 september 2003 22:17
> > To: Wijnen, Bert (Bert); dubuc.consulting@rogers.com;
> > tnadeau@cisco.com;
> > sudheer@ieee.org; jplang@ieee.org
> > Subject: DT's review of draft-ietf-mpls-telink-mib-04.txt
> >
> >
> > I've completed a review of draft-ietf-tewg-mib-06.txt at
> > Bert's request,
> > concentrating on the relationships with the Interfaces MIB and the
> > IPv4 Tunnel MIB.
> >
> > Relationship with IF-MIB:
> >
> >  This is in pretty good shape.  Section 8 meets most of the
> > requiements
> >  outlined in section 4 of RFC 2863.  The only requirements not met
> > appear
> >  to be the ones regarding ifRcvAddressTable and the
> > conditions (if any)
> >  relating to ifXxxOctets with respect to frames with errors.
> >
> > Relationship with IPv4 Tunnel MIB:
> >
> >  This MIB has no text on the relationship with the IPv4
> > Tunnel MIB, and
> >  does not explain why it does not extend that MIB.  Of course this
> >  document is not IPv4-specific, but we know we need a
> > corresponding IPv6
> >
> >  Tunnel MIB (or perhaps a generic IP Tunnel MIB) anyway.
> > Given that, it
> >
> >  is unclear whether there is sufficient justification
> > (certainly none in
> >
> >  the draft) to not extend it/them.
> >
> >  The argument to extend it/them is twofold:
> >  a) you are consistent with other tunnel management schemes,
> > rather than
> >     confusing people with multiple conflicting schemes, and
> >  b) that you get a number of things currently missing, specifically:
> >     tunnelIfHopLimit, tunnelIfSecurity, tunnelConfigEncapsMethod,
> >     tunnelIfTOS, and the ability to look up a tunnel index by its
> >     endpoints.
> >
> >  teLinkRowStatus - redundant with tunnelConfigStatus?
> >
> >  The real issue is how to handle the teLinkLocalIpAddr and
> >  teLinkRemoteIpAddr.  The 'numbered' and 'unnumbered' link
terminology
> >  appears to come from [GMPLS-ARCH], but from a quick glance at that
> >  document, is is unclear whether the IP addresses are those used for
> >  encapsulation (i.e. like MAC addresses from the point of view of
the
> >  teLink interface), or those assigned to the inside.  I'm assuming
the
> >  former, since the latter would definitely be redundant with the
inet
> >  address table like on any other interface.
> >
> >  So there are currently three cases, as I understand it:
> >  1) it's tunneling using IPv4 addresses.  In this case I see no
reason
> >     to not extend the IPv4 Tunnel MIB.  teLinkLocalIpAddr
> >     and teLinkRemoteIpAddr are redundant with tunnelIfLocalAddress
and
> >     tunnelIfRemoteAddress, respectively.
> >  2) it's tunneling using IPv6 addresses.  In this case it can
> >     extend an IPv6 Tunnel MIB (or perhaps an Inet Tunnel MIB).
> >     teLinkLocalIpAddr and teLinkRemoteIpAddr would be redundant with
> >     objects in that MIB.
> >  3) it's not tunneling using either one.  In this case
> >     teLinkLocalIpAddr and teLinkRemoteIpAddr are empty.
> >
> > Hence, I'd propose the following actions:
> >  1) this document remove the teLinkLocalIpAddr and
teLinkRemoteIpAddr
> >     objects (leaving teLinkAddressType is fine).
> >  2) we (the OPS area) write the IPv6 or Inet Tunnel MIB asap.
> >     I had volunteered for this but it was lower priority.  If
> > this MIB
> >     takes a dependency on it, I think it could be done fairly
quickly
> >     since it's just adapting the existing RFC 2667.
> >     In that document we define a new tunnelIfEncapsMethod for MPLS.
> >  3) If the unnumbered case does not do tunneling over IP, then an
> >     ifType of teLink(200) could identify this case (only).
> >     Numbered links would use an ifType of tunnel, with an encaps
> >     method of mpls.  This would give the benefits of using the
tunnel
> > mib.
> >
> > -Dave
> >
> >


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Reply-To: "Cheenu Srinivasan" <cheenu@alumni.princeton.edu>
From: "Cheenu Srinivasan" <cheenu_srinivasan@hotmail.com>
To: "Stefan Winter" <mail@lucent.com>
Cc: <mpls@UU.NET>
References: <20030914172720.KFCA26074.tomts11-srv.bellnexxia.net@Cheng>
Subject: Re:  MIB structure error in MPLS-FTN-STD-MIB (draft 07)?
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 16:39:03 -0400
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This issue has been fixed in the latest version (08).

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Stefan Winter" <mail@lucent.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2003 1:27 PM
Subject: MIB structure error in MPLS-FTN-STD-MIB (draft 07)?


> Hello,
> 
> in draft-ietf-mpls-ftn-mib-07.txt there seems to be an error in the MIB
> definition of the mplsFTNMapTable.
> The table consists of five columns, which are indexed 1,2,3,5,6. There
> does
> 



From owner-mpls@UU.NET  Wed Sep 17 14:44:48 2003
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Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: "'mpls@uu.net'" <mpls@UU.NET>
Cc: "Wijnen, Bert \(Bert\)" <bwijnen@lucent.com>, <zinin@psg.com>,
        <iesg@ietf.org>
Subject: draft-ietf-mpls-mgmt-overview-09.txt
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All,

I have just submitted version 9 of the MPLS management overview draft.

This version contains changes only for the comments made during IETF last call, and
updates to contact information. The issues raised during IETF last call, and the changes
made are shown below.

I have had positive acks from the co-authors, the person that raised the issues, and a WG
chair.
The ADs and the other WG chair have had the opportunity to issue negative acks.

Please let me know if there are any concerns.

Thanks,
Adrian

The email in IESG last call said:

> Section 5.1 on Page 9 of the document claims that the LSR-MIB contains a
> mplsTrafficParamTable. This was only true in earlier draft versions of
> draft-ietf-mpls-lsr-mib. The current draft does not any more contain this
> table. Only InSegmentTable and OutSegmentTable contain a single entry
> trafficParamPtr that may point to a table in a different MIB.
>
> 1) The section reading
> >   -  The Traffic Parameter table (mplsTrafficParamTable) is
> >      used to specify and record LSP related traffic parameters.
> should be removed,
>
> 2) the line reading
> >   mplsLabelStackTable and mplsTrafficParamTable, but see the section
> in section 5.2 should be corrected and
>
> 3) the dependency graph in section 5.5 should be altered

The changes are summarized using RFC-ed notation below. Consequent changes in page
numbering and indexing are not shown.

*** Header ***
OLD
Expires: February 2004                              Cheenu Srinivasan
         ^^^^^^^^
NEW
Expires: March 2004                                 Cheenu Srinivasan
         ^^^^^

*** Header ***
OLD
                                                          August 2003
                                                       ^^^^^^^^^
NEW
                                                       September 2003
                                                       ^^^^^^^^^

*** Header ***
OLD
             draft-ietf-mpls-mgmt-overview-08.txt
                                            ^
NEW
             draft-ietf-mpls-mgmt-overview-09.txt
                                            ^

*** Page headers ***
OLD
Internet Draft     draft-ietf-mpls-mgmt-overview-08.txt      August 2003
                                                  ^       ^^^^^^^^^
NEW
Internet Draft     draft-ietf-mpls-mgmt-overview-09.txt   September 2003
                                                          ^^^^^^^^^

*** Section 5.1, 6th bullet ***
DELETE (delete entire bullet)

   -  The Traffic Parameter table (mplsTrafficParamTable) is
      used to specify and record LSP related traffic parameters.

*** Section 5.2, para 1 ***
REPLACE (entire paragraph)
OLD
   Where tables in the MIB module have arbitrary indexes, scalars are
   provided to supply the next available index.  This applies to
   mplsInSegmentTable, mplsOutSegmentTable, mplsXCTable,
   mplsLabelStackTable and mplsTrafficParamTable, but see the section
   on indexing, below.

NEW
   Where tables in the MIB module have arbitrary indexes, scalars are
   provided to supply the next available index.  This applies to
   mplsInSegmentTable, mplsOutSegmentTable, mplsXCTable and
   mplsLabelStackTable, but see the section on indexing, below.

*** Section 5.5, 2nd para ***
INSERT (entire new paragraph)
NEW
   Note that the various MIB tables contain two instances of pointers
   to external tables that are not currently defined. Entries in an
   external Traffic Parameters Table (external_Traffic_Table) are
   pointed to using RowPointers from the mplsInSegmentTable
   (mplsInSegmentTrafficParamPtr) and from the mplsOutSegmentTable
   (mplsOutSegmentTrafficParamPtr) to allow representation of the
   traffic parameters for the MPLS segment - alternatively, the
   pointers may indicate an entry in the Tunnel Resource Table
   (mplsTunnelResourceTable) in MPLS-TE-STD-MIB. Similarly, an
   external label table may be used to store label values if, for
   some reason they are not stored in place within the LSR MIB tables.
   This might occur if extra per label space information needs to be
   stored, and paves the way for GMPLS where labels cannot always be
   stored in a 32 bit value. RowPointers are used from the
   mplsInSegmentTable (mplsInSegmentLabelPtr), the mplsOutSegmentTable
   (mplsOutSegmentTopLabelPtr), and from the mplsLabelStackTable
   (mplsLabelStackLabelPtr).


*** Section 5.5, diagram ***
REPLACE (entire diagram)
OLD
                      mplsInterfacePerfTable
                                 ^
                                 |
                                 V
                        mplsInterfaceTable
                         ^              ^
   mplsInSegmentMapTable |              | mplsLabelStackTable
             |           |              |           ^
             |      +----+              +----+      |
             |      |                        |      |
             |      | mplsTrafficParamTable  |      |
             |      |   ^                ^   |      |
             V      |   |                |   |      |
            mplsInSegmentTable        mplsOutSegmentTable
                ^   ^                        ^   ^
                |   |                        |   |
                |   +----> mplsXCTable  <----+   |
                V                                V
        mplsInSegmentPerfTable    mplsOutSegmentPerfTable
NEW
                      mplsInterfacePerfTable
                                 ^
                                 |
                                 V
                        mplsInterfaceTable
                         ^              ^
   mplsInSegmentMapTable |              | mplsLabelStackTable
             |           |              |           ^     |
             |      +----+              +----+      |     |
             |      |                        |      |     |
             |      | external_Traffic_Table |      |     |
             |      |   ^                ^   |      |     |
             V      |   |                |   |      |     |
            mplsInSegmentTable        mplsOutSegmentTable |
             |  ^   ^                        ^   ^     |  |
             |  |   |                        |   |     |  V
      +------+  |   +----> mplsXCTable  <----+   |     +--+
      |         V                                V        |
      | mplsInSegmentPerfTable    mplsOutSegmentPerfTable |
      |                                                   |
      +--------------> external_Label_Table <-------------+

*** Section 20 ***
OLD
  Adrian Farrel
  Old Dog Consulting
  Email: adrian@olddog.co.uk
NEW
  Adrian Farrel
  Old Dog Consulting
  Tel: +44 (0) 1978 860944
  Email: adrian@olddog.co.uk




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Reply-To: <tnadeau@cisco.com>
From: "Thomas D. Nadeau" <tnadeau@cisco.com>
To: "'Wijnen, Bert \(Bert\)'" <bwijnen@lucent.com>,
        "'Stefan Winter'" <mail@stefan-winter.de>, <mpls@UU.NET>,
        <iesg@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: errors in draft-ietf-te-mib-12.txt
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 09:12:26 -0400
Organization: Cisco Systems, inc.
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	OK

>-----Original Message-----
>From: Wijnen, Bert (Bert) [mailto:bwijnen@lucent.com] 
>Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2003 7:37 AM
>To: 'tnadeau@cisco.com'; 'Stefan Winter'; mpls@UU.NET; iesg@ietf.org
>Subject: RE: errors in draft-ietf-te-mib-12.txt
>
>
>> >Now, since MplsTunnelIndex has a range of (0..65535). It 
>might indeed
>> >be a good idea to change:
>> >  mplsTunnelIndexNext OBJECT-TYPE
>> >     SYNTAX        IndexIntegerNextFree
>> >into:
>> >  mplsTunnelIndexNext OBJECT-TYPE
>> >     SYNTAX        IndexIntegerNextFree (0..65535)
>> >So that it is inline with the range that a real tunnel 
>index can get.
>> 
>> 	If this is the recommendation, we can do this.
>> 
>I think that would be wise. And since no one on the WG mailing list 
>spoke up, I suggest you incorportate that with the other changes
>that you were going to make now that IETF Last Call has ended.
>
>Bert
>> 	--Tom
>



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From: "Wijnen, Bert (Bert)" <bwijnen@lucent.com>
To: "'Michelle S. Cotton'" <cotton@icann.org>, "Mpls (E-mail)"
	 <mpls@UU.NET>
Cc: iesg@ietf.org, iana@iana.org, "Wijnen, Bert (Bert)"
	 <bwijnen@lucent.com>,
        zinin@psg.com
Subject: RE: Question/Comments: ietf-mpls-te-mib, ietf-mpls-ldp-mib,andiet
	f-mpls-te-mib
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 23:24:22 +0200
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Inline

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michelle S. Cotton [mailto:cotton@icann.org]
> Sent: vrijdag 19 september 2003 22:09
> To: Wijnen, Bert (Bert); zinin@psg.com
> Cc: iesg@ietf.org; iana@iana.org
> Subject: RE: Question/Comments: ietf-mpls-te-mib,
> ietf-mpls-ldp-mib,andietf-mpls-te-mib
> 
> 
> Alex/Bert See my comments below.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Michelle
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: iesg-admin@ietf.org [mailto:iesg-admin@ietf.org]On Behalf Of
> Wijnen, Bert (Bert)
> Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2003 2:47 PM
> To: 'Michelle S. Cotton'; zinin@psg.com
> Cc: iesg@ietf.org; iana@iana.org
> Subject: RE: Question/Comments: ietf-mpls-te-mib,
> ietf-mpls-ldp-mib,andietf-mpls-te-mib
> 
> 
> Inline
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Michelle S. Cotton [mailto:cotton@icann.org]
> > Sent: donderdag 18 september 2003 17:18
> > To: zinin@psg.com
> > Cc: iesg@ietf.org; iana@iana.org
> > Subject: Question/Comments: ietf-mpls-te-mib,
> > ietf-mpls-ldp-mib,andietf-mpls-te-mib
> > 
> > 
> > Alex,
> > 
> > Please confirm I understand the IANA actions for the
> > following documents:
> > 
> > draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-mib-13.txt
> > 
> > There are 4 assignments to be made in the above
> > document where do these need to go?
> > 
> This is correct. And the document suggests good values for you
> to assign. They go under the mplsStdMIB branch, which you
> also need to assign, as per document 
>    draft-ietf-mpls-tc-mib-09.txt
> That one asks you to assign transmission 166 to mplsStdMIB
> 
> [MSC] Is it OK to skip all the other numbers in the transmission 
> number registry?  Next in line would be 135.
> 
I think that is OK. The 166 is requested, because that is the ifType
for MPLS (in ianaiftype.mib) and most of the time we do assign
such specific MIB modules undertransmission with the arc that
equals th ifType.

So the values between 135 and 165 (inclusive) stay available for now.

> 
> > draft-ietf-mpls-ftn-mib-08.txt
> > 
> > No IANA actions
> > 
> Mmm... should have caught that myself. They do:
> 
> 
>        "Initial version issued as part of RFC XXXX."
>     ::= { mplsStdMIB 8 }
> 
> And in fact they should have asked you to make and 
> register that assignment.
> 
> [MSC] Can the authors be notified they need an IANA Considerations
> section?
> 
They should have done something aka:

      ::= { mplsStdMIB xxx } -- IANA assigns xxx
      -- IANA pls assign value 8.

by cc:ing mpls list I am asking authors to do so.

> > draft-ietf-mpls-te-mib-12.txt
> > 
> > The IANA Considerations section says there are 4 assignments
> > for this document, but then only 1 is described in section 18.1 
> > and that is the end of the document. Was this cut-off in the
> > online version by mistake.  If so, where should these assignments
> > go?
> > 
> It looks like this doc got indeed cut off.
> They have )page 13/14):
>    DESCRIPTION
>         "Initial draft version issued as part of RFC XXXX."
>    ::= { mplsStdMIB 3 }
> 
> And they should have asked you to make and register the assignment.
> So again this goes under mplsStdMIB. Seems like they have made a
> few copy and paste errors.
> 
Same here

Bert
> > Thanks in advance.  Sorry for not sending this earlier.
> > 
> 
> Since these docs all depend on the 
>    draft-ietf-mpls-tc-mib-09.txt
> document, it is clear that you might not easily have seen this
> cause it was not included in the package. It did have IETF Last Call
> though. This doc has a section 7 that explains that IANA is requested
> to setup a new registry for assignments under mplsStdMIB.
> 
> Bert
> 
> > Michelle
> > IANA
> > 
> > 
> 


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From: "Wijnen, Bert (Bert)" <bwijnen@lucent.com>
To: "'tnadeau@cisco.com'" <tnadeau@cisco.com>,
        "'Stefan Winter'"
	 <mail@stefan-winter.de>, mpls@UU.NET,
        iesg@ietf.org
Subject: RE: errors in draft-ietf-te-mib-12.txt
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> >Now, since MplsTunnelIndex has a range of (0..65535). It might indeed
> >be a good idea to change:
> >  mplsTunnelIndexNext OBJECT-TYPE
> >     SYNTAX        IndexIntegerNextFree
> >into:
> >  mplsTunnelIndexNext OBJECT-TYPE
> >     SYNTAX        IndexIntegerNextFree (0..65535)
> >So that it is inline with the range that a real tunnel index can get.
> 
> 	If this is the recommendation, we can do this.
> 
I think that would be wise. And since no one on the WG mailing list 
spoke up, I suggest you incorportate that with the other changes
that you were going to make now that IETF Last Call has ended.

Bert
> 	--Tom


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Reply-To: <tnadeau@cisco.com>
From: "Thomas D. Nadeau" <tnadeau@cisco.com>
To: "'Wijnen, Bert \(Bert\)'" <bwijnen@lucent.com>,
        "'Stefan Winter'" <mail@stefan-winter.de>, <mpls@UU.NET>,
        <iesg@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: errors in draft-ietf-te-mib-12.txt
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 09:25:48 -0400
Organization: Cisco Systems, inc.
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>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-mpls@UU.NET [mailto:owner-mpls@UU.NET] On Behalf 
>Of Wijnen, Bert (Bert)
>Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2003 7:37 AM
>To: 'tnadeau@cisco.com'; 'Stefan Winter'; mpls@UU.NET; iesg@ietf.org
>Subject: RE: errors in draft-ietf-te-mib-12.txt
>
>
>> >Now, since MplsTunnelIndex has a range of (0..65535). It 
>might indeed
>> >be a good idea to change:
>> >  mplsTunnelIndexNext OBJECT-TYPE
>> >     SYNTAX        IndexIntegerNextFree
>> >into:
>> >  mplsTunnelIndexNext OBJECT-TYPE
>> >     SYNTAX        IndexIntegerNextFree (0..65535)
>> >So that it is inline with the range that a real tunnel 
>index can get.
>> 
>> 	If this is the recommendation, we can do this.
>> 
>I think that would be wise. And since no one on the WG mailing list 
>spoke up, I suggest you incorportate that with the other changes
>that you were going to make now that IETF Last Call has ended.

	OK

	--Tom
>
>Bert
>> 	--Tom
>



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From: Nic Neate <Nic.Neate@dataconnection.com>
To: "'riza.cetin@alcatel.be'" <riza.cetin@alcatel.be>,
        "'stefaan.de_cnodder@alcatel.be'" <stefaan.de_cnodder@alcatel.be>,
        Juniper - Der-Hwa Gan <dhg@juniper.net>,
        Cisco - Thomas Nadeau
	 <tnadeau@cisco.com>
Cc: "'mpls@uu.net'" <mpls@UU.NET>
Subject: Suggested improvements to the Fast Reroute MIB definition in draf
	t-ietf-mpls-fastreroute-mib-01
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 11:13:16 +0100
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All,

I've been looking at Fast Reroute MIB draft
(draft-ietf-mpls-fastreroute-mib-01.txt) and I think there are a few bugs.
I've suggested fixes and raised some other ideas below.  These concern the
mplsFrrConstProtectionMethod scalar, the mplsFrrConstTable and the
mplsFrrDetourTable.

Please let me know if you agree with these proposals, or have any further
suggestions.  Thanks,

Nic


mplsFrrConstProtectionMethod scalar
===================================

This scalar configures the protection method that is to be used.  Currently,
this applies to all LSPs traversing the LSR, however this option should be
configurable per-LSP.  Hence the mplsFrrConstProtectionMethod should rather
be a field in the mplsFrrConstTable.  This allows an LSR to simultaneously
support LSPs using both protection methods, and interoperate between them,
as allowed by the Fast Reroute draft.

I suggest removing the mplsFrrConstProtectionMethod scalar, and adding the
following field to the mplsFrrConstTable.

   mplsFrrConstProtectionMethod OBJECT-TYPE
      SYNTAX        INTEGER { oneToOneBackup(0),
                              facilityBackup(1)
                            }
      MAX-ACCESS    read-write
      STATUS        current
      DESCRIPTION
        "Indicates which protection method is to be used for fast
         reroute."
      ::= { mplsFrrConstEntry 4 }

Note that the other references to the mplsFrrConstProtectionMethod will need
to be updated correspondingly, and in particular the definitions of most of
the other scalars.


mplsFrrConstTable
=================

A.  The current indexing (mplsFrrConstIfIndex, mplsFrrConstTunnelIndex and
mplsFrrConstTunnelInstance) is not sufficient in the case that two different
LSPs use the same interface and have the same tunnel index and tunnel
instance (but different ingress and egress LSR IDs) and require different
Fast Reroute configuration.

Rather than adjusting the current indexing, I suggest replacing the three
existing indices with a single integer index, mplsFrrConstIndex.  This index
can then be referenced from the mplsTunnelTable and the mplsFrrDetourTable,
establishing a simple indexing system with clear relationships between the
tables (which is also in line with existing relationships between tables in
the TE-MIB and LSR-MIB).  Some suggested text follows.

   MplsFrrConstIndex ::= TEXTUAL-CONVENTION
      STATUS        current
      DESCRIPTION
        "Index into mplsFrrConstTable."
      SYNTAX  Integer32 (1..65535)

   mplsFrrConstIndex OBJECT-TYPE
      SYNTAX        MplsFrrConstIndex
      MAX-ACCESS    not-accessible
      STATUS        current
      DESCRIPTION
           "Uniquely identifies this row."
      ::= { mplsFrrConstEntry 1 }

The mplsTunnelTable should then be extended with a row pointer to indicate
the mplsFrrConstTable to be used to configure Fast Reroute protection for
that tunnel as follows.

   -- MPLS Fast Reroute Tunnel Table

   mplsFrrTunnelTable            OBJECT-TYPE
      SYNTAX                     SEQUENCE OF MplsFrrTunnelEntry
      MAX-ACCESS                 not-accessible
      STATUS                     current
      DESCRIPTION
         "This table extends the mplsTunnelTable defined in the
          MPLS-TE MIB to provide Fast Reroute configuration."
      ::= { mplsFrrGeneralObjects 1 }

   mplsFrrTunnelEntry            OBJECT-TYPE
      SYNTAX                     MplsFrrTunnelEntry
      MAX-ACCESS                 not-accessible
      STATUS                     current
      DESCRIPTION
         "This entry provides Fast Reroute configuration for the
          tunnel."
      AUGMENTS { mplsTunnelEntry }
      ::= {mplsFrrTunnelTable 1}

   MplsFrrTunnelEntry ::= SEQUENCE {
      mplsFrrTunnelFrrConstPointer      RowPointer
   }

   mplsFrrTunnelFrrConstPointer   OBJECT-TYPE
      SYNTAX                      RowPointer
      MAX-ACCESS                  read-create
      STATUS                      current
      DESCRIPTION
           "This variable represents a pointer to the Fast Reroute 
             parameter specification for this tunnel.  This value may 
             point at an entry in the mplsFrrConstTable to indicate 
             which mplsFrrConstEntry is to be assigned to this LSP 
             instance.  This value may optionally point at an 
             externally defined Fast Reroute parameter specification 
             table.  A value of zeroDotZero indicates default Fast 
             Reroute parameters if the fastReroute bit in the 
             mplsTunnelSessionAttributes is set, and otherwise no Fast 
             Reroute protection."
      DEFVAL        { zeroDotZero }
      ::= { mplsFrrTunnelEntry 1 }

   END

Similarly, the mplsFrrConstIndex field should be added to the
mplsFrrDetourTable to describe the protection that the detour is providing
as follows.

   mplsFrrDetourFrrConstIndex OBJECT-TYPE
      SYNTAX        MplsFrrConstIndexOrZero
      MAX-ACCESS    read-only
      STATUS        current
      DESCRIPTION
        "Index into the mplsFrrConstTable entry that specifies the
         Fast Reroute protection that this detour is providing."
      DEFVAL { 0 }
      ::= { mplsFrrDetourEntry 2 }

B.  The mplsFrrConstHopLimit field is not applicable to entries in this
table representing detours, because this information is only known on the
protected LSP (signaled in the RSVP FAST_REROUTE object).  At transit detour
nodes there is no way to fill in this field, so I suggest modifying the
description to the following.

      DESCRIPTION
        "The maximum number of hops that the detour LSP may traverse.
         This field is not relevant and should be ignored if this 
         entry in the mplsFrrConstTable is being used in the context
         of representing a detour LSP."

C.  Typo: the mplsFrrConstExclAllAffinity field should be
mplsFrrConstExclAnyAffinity.  See section 4.1 of
draft-ietf-mpls-rsvp-lsp-fastreroute-03, and the corresponding field in the
TE-MIB.


mplsFrrDetourTable
==================

A.  This table needn't be restricted to detour LSPs, as it is just as
applicable to the backup LSPs used in the facility method (by which I mean
the backups that are tunneled through the bypass LSPs, not the bypass LSPs
themselves).  Simply renaming it to the mplsFrrBackupTable broadens its
scope in this way, making it twice as useful.

B.  I think it would be helpful to add pointers from this table to the
mplsTunnelARHopTable and the mplsTunnelResourceTable, to describe the route
the backup traverses, and the traffic parameters it uses.  I suggest the
following new fields (for which I have adopted the rename from
"mplsFrrDetour* to mplsFrrBackup* as suggested above).

   mplsFrrBackupARHopPointer      OBJECT-TYPE
      SYNTAX                      RowPointer
      MAX-ACCESS                  read-only
      STATUS                      current
      DESCRIPTION
         "This variable represents a pointer an entry in the 
          mplsTunnelARHopTable describing the actual hops traversed 
          by this backup LSP.  A value of zeroDotZero indicates 
          that no record of the hops is available."
      DEFVAL        { zeroDotZero }
      REFERENCE
         "Srinivansan, C., and A. Viswanathan, T. Nadeau, MPLS Traffic
          Engineering Management Information Base Using SMIv2,
          draft-ietf-mpls-te-mib-12.txt "
      ::= { mplsFrrBackupEntry 6 }

   mplsFrrBackupResourcePointer   OBJECT-TYPE
      SYNTAX                      RowPointer
      MAX-ACCESS                  read-only
      STATUS                      current
      DESCRIPTION
        "This variable represents a pointer to the traffic
          parameter specification for this backup LSP.  This
          value may point at an entry in the
          mplsTunnelResourceTable or may optionally point at
          an externally defined traffic parameter specification 
          table.  A value of zeroDotZero indicates best-effort 
          treatment."
      DEFVAL        { zeroDotZero }
      REFERENCE
         "Srinivansan, C., and A. Viswanathan, T. Nadeau, MPLS Traffic
          Engineering Management Information Base Using SMIv2,
          draft-ietf-mpls-te-mib-12.txt "
      ::= { mplsFrrBackupEntry 7 }

C.  The mplsFrrDetourRole and mplsFrrDetourXCPointer fields mentioned
elsewhere in the draft have been omitted from the definition of the table.
I suggest incorporating them as follows (again, adopting the rename from
"mplsFrrDetour* to mplsFrrBackup* suggested above).

   mplsFrrBackupRole OBJECT-TYPE
      SYNTAX        BITS { head(0),
                           merging(1)
                         }
      MAX-ACCESS    read-only
      STATUS        current
      DESCRIPTION
        "This bitmask describes the role of this backup LSP.
  
         head(0) This flag indicates that this LSR is the 
           PLR for this backup.

         merging(1) This flag indicates that this backup 
           merges with some other backups and/or the 
           protected LSP at this LSR."
      ::= { mplsFrrBackupEntry 8 }

   mplsFrrBackupXCPointer OBJECT-TYPE
      SYNTAX        RowPointer
      MAX-ACCESS    read-create
      STATUS        current
      DESCRIPTION
        "This variable points to a row in the mplsXCTable.
         This table identifies the segments that compose
         this tunnel, their characteristics, and
         relationships to each other."
      REFERENCE
        "Srinivasan, C., Viswanathan, A., and T. Nadeau, MPLS
         Label Switch Router Management Information Base,
         Internet Draft <draft-ietf-mpls-lsr-mib-10.txt>,
         June 2003."
      DEFVAL        { zeroDotZero }
      ::= { mplsFrrBackupEntry 9 }



From owner-mpls@UU.NET  Wed Sep 24 11:20:39 2003
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Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 08:46:35 -0700 (PDT)
From: Kireeti Kompella <kireeti@juniper.net>
To: Mark Duffy <mduffy@quarrytech.com>
cc: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.se>, mpls wg <mpls@UU.NET>,
        George Swallow <swallow@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: wg last call on draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-mtu-extensions-01.txt
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References: <20030906191853.C46157@kummer.juniper.net>
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Thanks, Mark.

I'll incorporate the changes in -02, along with any other that may
show up.

Kireeti.


From owner-mpls@UU.NET  Wed Sep 24 16:22:18 2003
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Reply-To: <tnadeau@cisco.com>
From: "Thomas D. Nadeau" <tnadeau@cisco.com>
To: "'Stefan Winter'" <mail@stefan-winter.de>, <mpls@UU.NET>, <iesg@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: glitch in draft-ietf-mpls-lsr-mib-12.txt
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 15:38:38 -0400
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OK.

>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-mpls@UU.NET [mailto:owner-mpls@UU.NET] On Behalf 
>Of Stefan Winter
>Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2003 3:57 AM
>To: mpls@UU.NET; iesg@ietf.org
>Subject: glitch in draft-ietf-mpls-lsr-mib-12.txt
>
>
>Hello,
>
>( I know it is VERY short before end of last call, but I just 
>came across this 
>one...)
>
>the mplsXCTable contains a RowStatus column and an AdminStatus column.
>The DESCRIPTION of its RowStatus reads, 
>       "When a row in this table has a row in the active(1)
>        state, no objects in this row except this object
>        and the mplsXCStorageType can be modified."
>Which does not make sense. As far as I know, the core purpose 
>of AdminStatus is to have the possibility to put an XC offline without
having 
>to set the entire row to NotInService. But if one cannot modify the 
>AdminStatus once the RowStatus is "up", this is not possible.
>If the description remains the way it is now, AdminStatus is 
>mostly useless. A simple addition like
>       "except this object, the mplsXCStorageType
>        and the mplsXCAdminStatus can be modified."
>would make much more sense.




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Subject: Re: Details
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 9:33:04 +0530
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Subject: Re: Re: My details
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 3:42:13 +0530
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From: Nic Neate <Nic.Neate@dataconnection.com>
To: Cisco - Thomas Nadeau <tnadeau@cisco.com>
Cc: mpls@UU.NET, riza.cetin@alcatel.be, stefaan.de_cnodder@alcatel.be,
        Juniper - Der-Hwa Gan <dhg@juniper.net>
Subject: RE: Suggested improvements to the Fast Reroute MIB definition in 
	draft-ietf-mpls-fastreroute-mib-01
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Tom,

Thanks for your feedback.  Responses inline - I think my points still stand.

Nic.

-----Original Message-----
From: Cisco - Thomas Nadeau 
Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2003 8:32 PM
To: Nic Neate; riza.cetin@alcatel.be; stefaan.de_cnodder@alcatel.be;
Juniper - Der-Hwa Gan
Cc: mpls@uu.net
Subject: RE: Suggested improvements to the Fast Reroute MIB definition
in draft-ietf-mpls-fastreroute-mib-01



	Replies inline.

	--Tom


>-----Original Message-----
>From: Nic Neate [mailto:Nic.Neate@dataconnection.com] 
>Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2003 6:13 AM
>To: 'riza.cetin@alcatel.be'; 'stefaan.de_cnodder@alcatel.be'; 
>Juniper - Der-Hwa Gan; Cisco - Thomas Nadeau
>Cc: 'mpls@uu.net'
>Subject: Suggested improvements to the Fast Reroute MIB 
>definition in draft-ietf-mpls-fastreroute-mib-01
>
>
>All,
>
>I've been looking at Fast Reroute MIB draft
>(draft-ietf-mpls-fastreroute-mib-01.txt) and I think there are 
>a few bugs.
>I've suggested fixes and raised some other ideas below.  These 
>concern the
>mplsFrrConstProtectionMethod scalar, the mplsFrrConstTable and the
>mplsFrrDetourTable.
>
>Please let me know if you agree with these proposals, or have 
>any further
>suggestions.  Thanks,
>
>Nic
>
>
>mplsFrrConstProtectionMethod scalar
>===================================
>
>This scalar configures the protection method that is to be 
>used.  Currently,
>this applies to all LSPs traversing the LSR, however this 
>option should be
>configurable per-LSP.  Hence the mplsFrrConstProtectionMethod 
>should rather be a field in the mplsFrrConstTable.  This allows an LSR
to 
>simultaneously support LSPs using both protection methods, and
interoperate 
>between them, as allowed by the Fast Reroute draft.

	It is our understanding that only One2One or Facillity 
can be used on all LSPs that a given LSR supports, thus
the configuration is done globally.  We do not 
know of any products that support both at the same time,
or any that plan to. Can both be supported at the same
time given the current definitions of the standard?

<Nic>
Data Connection has an implementation that supports both methods at the same
time.  This is covered by the spec - see this paragraph from section 0 of
the FRR draft.

   This draft rationalizes the RSVP signaling for both methods such
   that any implementation can recognize all FRR requests and clearly
   respond, either positively if they are capable of performing the
   method, or with a clear error such that requester is informed and
   can seek alternate means of backup.  This draft also allows a
   single implementation to support both methods, thereby providing a
   range of capabilities.  Thus the described behavior and extensions
   to RSVP allow LERs and LSRs to implement either or both methods.  
</Nic>

>I suggest removing the mplsFrrConstProtectionMethod scalar, 
>and adding the
>following field to the mplsFrrConstTable.
>
>   mplsFrrConstProtectionMethod OBJECT-TYPE
>      SYNTAX        INTEGER { oneToOneBackup(0),
>                              facilityBackup(1)
>                            }
>      MAX-ACCESS    read-write
>      STATUS        current
>      DESCRIPTION
>        "Indicates which protection method is to be used for fast
>         reroute."
>      ::= { mplsFrrConstEntry 4 }
>
>Note that the other references to the 
>mplsFrrConstProtectionMethod will need
>to be updated correspondingly, and in particular the 
>definitions of most of
>the other scalars.
>
>
>mplsFrrConstTable
>=================
>
>A.  The current indexing (mplsFrrConstIfIndex, 
>mplsFrrConstTunnelIndex and
>mplsFrrConstTunnelInstance) is not sufficient in the case that 
>two different
>LSPs use the same interface and have the same tunnel index and tunnel
>instance (but different ingress and egress LSR IDs) and 
>require different Fast Reroute configuration.

	By "different FRR configuration" do you mean two
mean One2One and Facillity?  If so, paste in my response
from above here.

<Nic>
By "different FRR configuration" I mean any difference in the configuration
supplied by the mplsFrrConstTable, for example a different
mplsFrrConstBandwidth for the backup LSPs.
</Nic>

>Rather than adjusting the current indexing, I suggest 
>replacing the three
>existing indices with a single integer index, 
>mplsFrrConstIndex.  This index
>can then be referenced from the mplsTunnelTable and the 
>mplsFrrDetourTable,
>establishing a simple indexing system with clear relationships 
>between the
>tables (which is also in line with existing relationships 
>between tables in
>the TE-MIB and LSR-MIB).  Some suggested text follows.
>
>   MplsFrrConstIndex ::= TEXTUAL-CONVENTION
>      STATUS        current
>      DESCRIPTION
>        "Index into mplsFrrConstTable."
>      SYNTAX  Integer32 (1..65535)
>
>   mplsFrrConstIndex OBJECT-TYPE
>      SYNTAX        MplsFrrConstIndex
>      MAX-ACCESS    not-accessible
>      STATUS        current
>      DESCRIPTION
>           "Uniquely identifies this row."
>      ::= { mplsFrrConstEntry 1 }
>
>The mplsTunnelTable should then be extended with a row pointer 
>to indicate the mplsFrrConstTable to be used to configure Fast Reroute 
>protection for that tunnel as follows.

	Why do you suggest using a RowPointer over pure
indexes? 

<Nic>
I don't have a strong argument either way - in your capacity as "Mr MIB"
you're best placed to advise.  I originally suggested a RowPointer because
the mplsFrrConstTable and mplsTunnelTable are in different MIBs, and because
some implementations may wish to use some other table for FRR configuration.
Currently the mplsTunnelTable contains both RowPointers and indices to
reference other tables - I'd be interested to know what the logic is in the
existing cases for choosing one over the other.
</Nic>

>   -- MPLS Fast Reroute Tunnel Table
>
>   mplsFrrTunnelTable            OBJECT-TYPE
>      SYNTAX                     SEQUENCE OF MplsFrrTunnelEntry
>      MAX-ACCESS                 not-accessible
>      STATUS                     current
>      DESCRIPTION
>         "This table extends the mplsTunnelTable defined in the
>          MPLS-TE MIB to provide Fast Reroute configuration."
>      ::= { mplsFrrGeneralObjects 1 }
>
>   mplsFrrTunnelEntry            OBJECT-TYPE
>      SYNTAX                     MplsFrrTunnelEntry
>      MAX-ACCESS                 not-accessible
>      STATUS                     current
>      DESCRIPTION
>         "This entry provides Fast Reroute configuration for the
>          tunnel."
>      AUGMENTS { mplsTunnelEntry }
>      ::= {mplsFrrTunnelTable 1}
>
>   MplsFrrTunnelEntry ::= SEQUENCE {
>      mplsFrrTunnelFrrConstPointer      RowPointer
>   }
>
>   mplsFrrTunnelFrrConstPointer   OBJECT-TYPE
>      SYNTAX                      RowPointer
>      MAX-ACCESS                  read-create
>      STATUS                      current
>      DESCRIPTION
>           "This variable represents a pointer to the Fast Reroute 
>             parameter specification for this tunnel.  This value may 
>             point at an entry in the mplsFrrConstTable to indicate 
>             which mplsFrrConstEntry is to be assigned to this LSP 
>             instance.  This value may optionally point at an 
>             externally defined Fast Reroute parameter specification 
>             table.  A value of zeroDotZero indicates default Fast 
>             Reroute parameters if the fastReroute bit in the 
>             mplsTunnelSessionAttributes is set, and otherwise no Fast 
>             Reroute protection."
>      DEFVAL        { zeroDotZero }
>      ::= { mplsFrrTunnelEntry 1 }
>
>   END
>
>Similarly, the mplsFrrConstIndex field should be added to the
>mplsFrrDetourTable to describe the protection that the detour 
>is providing as follows.

	Same question as above.

<Nic>
Again, I don't have a strong argument for using an index over a RowPointer.
I suggested a simple index in this case because the tables are closely
related in the same MIB.
</Nic>

>
>
>   mplsFrrDetourFrrConstIndex OBJECT-TYPE
>      SYNTAX        MplsFrrConstIndexOrZero
>      MAX-ACCESS    read-only
>      STATUS        current
>      DESCRIPTION
>        "Index into the mplsFrrConstTable entry that specifies the
>         Fast Reroute protection that this detour is providing."
>      DEFVAL { 0 }
>      ::= { mplsFrrDetourEntry 2 }
>
>B.  The mplsFrrConstHopLimit field is not applicable to entries in this
>table representing detours, because this information is only 
>known on the
>protected LSP (signaled in the RSVP FAST_REROUTE object).  At 
>transit detour nodes there is no way to fill in this field, so I
suggest modifying the
>description to the following.
>
>      DESCRIPTION
>        "The maximum number of hops that the detour LSP may traverse.
>         This field is not relevant and should be ignored if this 
>         entry in the mplsFrrConstTable is being used in the context
>         of representing a detour LSP."

	OK.


>C.  Typo: the mplsFrrConstExclAllAffinity field should be
>mplsFrrConstExclAnyAffinity.  See section 4.1 of
>draft-ietf-mpls-rsvp-lsp-fastreroute-03, and the corresponding 
>field in the TE-MIB.

	OK.

>mplsFrrDetourTable
>==================
>
>A.  This table needn't be restricted to detour LSPs, as it is just as
>applicable to the backup LSPs used in the facility method (by 
>which I mean
>the backups that are tunneled through the bypass LSPs, not the 
>bypass LSPs
>themselves).  Simply renaming it to the mplsFrrBackupTable broadens its
>scope in this way, making it twice as useful.

	We wanted to keep things separate to keep 
conformance/implementation clean.  There is a
place to keep information related to backup LSP info.

<Nic>
There is information in this table not covered in the mplsFrrFacRouteDBTable
(or anywhere else for facility backups).  For example the XC pointer.  Hence
there is value in using this table to provide information about all backups
and not just detours.  (Note though that bypass LSPs aren't included in the
definition of "backup" - see the FRR draft).
</Nic>

>B.  I think it would be helpful to add pointers from this table to the
>mplsTunnelARHopTable and the mplsTunnelResourceTable, to 
>describe the route
>the backup traverses, and the traffic parameters it uses.  I 
>suggest the
>following new fields (for which I have adopted the rename from
>"mplsFrrDetour* to mplsFrrBackup* as suggested above).

	There are already "pointers" by virtue of looking
at the mplsTunnelTable to see the backup LSPs (and their
associated traffic parameters).  These will be entries
with special tunnelInstanceIndex values (as described).

<Nic>
I think there may be some confusion here because I have called the fields
mplsFrrBackup* rather than mplsFrrDetour* (because of my suggestion above to
rename the table in that way).  There is nothing in the mplsTunnelTable
about detours (I think that is the principle requirement for an
mplsFrrDetourTable).
</Nic>

>   mplsFrrBackupARHopPointer      OBJECT-TYPE
>      SYNTAX                      RowPointer
>      MAX-ACCESS                  read-only
>      STATUS                      current
>      DESCRIPTION
>         "This variable represents a pointer an entry in the 
>          mplsTunnelARHopTable describing the actual hops traversed 
>          by this backup LSP.  A value of zeroDotZero indicates 
>          that no record of the hops is available."
>      DEFVAL        { zeroDotZero }
>      REFERENCE
>         "Srinivansan, C., and A. Viswanathan, T. Nadeau, MPLS Traffic
>          Engineering Management Information Base Using SMIv2,
>          draft-ietf-mpls-te-mib-12.txt "
>      ::= { mplsFrrBackupEntry 6 }
>
>   mplsFrrBackupResourcePointer   OBJECT-TYPE
>      SYNTAX                      RowPointer
>      MAX-ACCESS                  read-only
>      STATUS                      current
>      DESCRIPTION
>        "This variable represents a pointer to the traffic
>          parameter specification for this backup LSP.  This
>          value may point at an entry in the
>          mplsTunnelResourceTable or may optionally point at
>          an externally defined traffic parameter specification 
>          table.  A value of zeroDotZero indicates best-effort 
>          treatment."
>      DEFVAL        { zeroDotZero }
>      REFERENCE
>         "Srinivansan, C., and A. Viswanathan, T. Nadeau, MPLS Traffic
>          Engineering Management Information Base Using SMIv2,
>          draft-ietf-mpls-te-mib-12.txt "
>      ::= { mplsFrrBackupEntry 7 }
>
>C.  The mplsFrrDetourRole and mplsFrrDetourXCPointer fields mentioned
>elsewhere in the draft have been omitted from the definition 
>of the table.
>I suggest incorporating them as follows (again, adopting the 
>rename from
>"mplsFrrDetour* to mplsFrrBackup* suggested above).
>
>   mplsFrrBackupRole OBJECT-TYPE
>      SYNTAX        BITS { head(0),
>                           merging(1)
>                         }
>      MAX-ACCESS    read-only
>      STATUS        current
>      DESCRIPTION
>        "This bitmask describes the role of this backup LSP.
>  
>         head(0) This flag indicates that this LSR is the 
>           PLR for this backup.
>
>         merging(1) This flag indicates that this backup 
>           merges with some other backups and/or the 
>           protected LSP at this LSR."
>      ::= { mplsFrrBackupEntry 8 }
>
>   mplsFrrBackupXCPointer OBJECT-TYPE
>      SYNTAX        RowPointer
>      MAX-ACCESS    read-create
>      STATUS        current
>      DESCRIPTION
>        "This variable points to a row in the mplsXCTable.
>         This table identifies the segments that compose
>         this tunnel, their characteristics, and
>         relationships to each other."
>      REFERENCE
>        "Srinivasan, C., Viswanathan, A., and T. Nadeau, MPLS
>         Label Switch Router Management Information Base,
>         Internet Draft <draft-ietf-mpls-lsr-mib-10.txt>,
>         June 2003."
>      DEFVAL        { zeroDotZero }
>      ::= { mplsFrrBackupEntry 9 }
>

<Nic>
Any comments on this last suggestion?
</Nic>



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Message-ID: <53F74F5A7B94D511841C00B0D0AB16F80287069B@baker.datcon.co.uk>
From: Nic Neate <Nic.Neate@dataconnection.com>
To: Cisco - Thomas Nadeau <tnadeau@cisco.com>
Cc: mpls@UU.NET, riza.cetin@alcatel.be, stefaan.de_cnodder@alcatel.be,
        Juniper - Der-Hwa Gan <dhg@juniper.net>
Subject: RE: Suggested improvements to the Fast Reroute MIB definition in 
	draft-ietf-mpls-fastreroute-mib-01
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 12:41:43 +0100
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Tom,

Thanks for your feedback.  Responses inline - I think my points still stand.

Nic.

-----Original Message-----
From: Cisco - Thomas Nadeau 
Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2003 8:32 PM
To: Nic Neate; riza.cetin@alcatel.be; stefaan.de_cnodder@alcatel.be;
Juniper - Der-Hwa Gan
Cc: mpls@uu.net
Subject: RE: Suggested improvements to the Fast Reroute MIB definition
in draft-ietf-mpls-fastreroute-mib-01



	Replies inline.

	--Tom


>-----Original Message-----
>From: Nic Neate [mailto:Nic.Neate@dataconnection.com] 
>Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2003 6:13 AM
>To: 'riza.cetin@alcatel.be'; 'stefaan.de_cnodder@alcatel.be'; 
>Juniper - Der-Hwa Gan; Cisco - Thomas Nadeau
>Cc: 'mpls@uu.net'
>Subject: Suggested improvements to the Fast Reroute MIB 
>definition in draft-ietf-mpls-fastreroute-mib-01
>
>
>All,
>
>I've been looking at Fast Reroute MIB draft
>(draft-ietf-mpls-fastreroute-mib-01.txt) and I think there are 
>a few bugs.
>I've suggested fixes and raised some other ideas below.  These 
>concern the
>mplsFrrConstProtectionMethod scalar, the mplsFrrConstTable and the
>mplsFrrDetourTable.
>
>Please let me know if you agree with these proposals, or have 
>any further
>suggestions.  Thanks,
>
>Nic
>
>
>mplsFrrConstProtectionMethod scalar
>===================================
>
>This scalar configures the protection method that is to be 
>used.  Currently,
>this applies to all LSPs traversing the LSR, however this 
>option should be
>configurable per-LSP.  Hence the mplsFrrConstProtectionMethod 
>should rather be a field in the mplsFrrConstTable.  This allows an LSR
to 
>simultaneously support LSPs using both protection methods, and
interoperate 
>between them, as allowed by the Fast Reroute draft.

	It is our understanding that only One2One or Facillity 
can be used on all LSPs that a given LSR supports, thus
the configuration is done globally.  We do not 
know of any products that support both at the same time,
or any that plan to. Can both be supported at the same
time given the current definitions of the standard?

<Nic>
Data Connection has an implementation that supports both methods at the same
time.  This is covered by the spec - see this paragraph from section 0 of
the FRR draft.

   This draft rationalizes the RSVP signaling for both methods such
   that any implementation can recognize all FRR requests and clearly
   respond, either positively if they are capable of performing the
   method, or with a clear error such that requester is informed and
   can seek alternate means of backup.  This draft also allows a
   single implementation to support both methods, thereby providing a
   range of capabilities.  Thus the described behavior and extensions
   to RSVP allow LERs and LSRs to implement either or both methods.  
</Nic>

>I suggest removing the mplsFrrConstProtectionMethod scalar, 
>and adding the
>following field to the mplsFrrConstTable.
>
>   mplsFrrConstProtectionMethod OBJECT-TYPE
>      SYNTAX        INTEGER { oneToOneBackup(0),
>                              facilityBackup(1)
>                            }
>      MAX-ACCESS    read-write
>      STATUS        current
>      DESCRIPTION
>        "Indicates which protection method is to be used for fast
>         reroute."
>      ::= { mplsFrrConstEntry 4 }
>
>Note that the other references to the 
>mplsFrrConstProtectionMethod will need
>to be updated correspondingly, and in particular the 
>definitions of most of
>the other scalars.
>
>
>mplsFrrConstTable
>=================
>
>A.  The current indexing (mplsFrrConstIfIndex, 
>mplsFrrConstTunnelIndex and
>mplsFrrConstTunnelInstance) is not sufficient in the case that 
>two different
>LSPs use the same interface and have the same tunnel index and tunnel
>instance (but different ingress and egress LSR IDs) and 
>require different Fast Reroute configuration.

	By "different FRR configuration" do you mean two
mean One2One and Facillity?  If so, paste in my response
from above here.

<Nic>
By "different FRR configuration" I mean any difference in the configuration
supplied by the mplsFrrConstTable, for example a different
mplsFrrConstBandwidth for the backup LSPs.
</Nic>

>Rather than adjusting the current indexing, I suggest 
>replacing the three
>existing indices with a single integer index, 
>mplsFrrConstIndex.  This index
>can then be referenced from the mplsTunnelTable and the 
>mplsFrrDetourTable,
>establishing a simple indexing system with clear relationships 
>between the
>tables (which is also in line with existing relationships 
>between tables in
>the TE-MIB and LSR-MIB).  Some suggested text follows.
>
>   MplsFrrConstIndex ::= TEXTUAL-CONVENTION
>      STATUS        current
>      DESCRIPTION
>        "Index into mplsFrrConstTable."
>      SYNTAX  Integer32 (1..65535)
>
>   mplsFrrConstIndex OBJECT-TYPE
>      SYNTAX        MplsFrrConstIndex
>      MAX-ACCESS    not-accessible
>      STATUS        current
>      DESCRIPTION
>           "Uniquely identifies this row."
>      ::= { mplsFrrConstEntry 1 }
>
>The mplsTunnelTable should then be extended with a row pointer 
>to indicate the mplsFrrConstTable to be used to configure Fast Reroute 
>protection for that tunnel as follows.

	Why do you suggest using a RowPointer over pure
indexes? 

<Nic>
I don't have a strong argument either way - in your capacity as "Mr MIB"
you're best placed to advise.  I originally suggested a RowPointer because
the mplsFrrConstTable and mplsTunnelTable are in different MIBs, and because
some implementations may wish to use some other table for FRR configuration.
Currently the mplsTunnelTable contains both RowPointers and indices to
reference other tables - I'd be interested to know what the logic is in the
existing cases for choosing one over the other.
</Nic>

>   -- MPLS Fast Reroute Tunnel Table
>
>   mplsFrrTunnelTable            OBJECT-TYPE
>      SYNTAX                     SEQUENCE OF MplsFrrTunnelEntry
>      MAX-ACCESS                 not-accessible
>      STATUS                     current
>      DESCRIPTION
>         "This table extends the mplsTunnelTable defined in the
>          MPLS-TE MIB to provide Fast Reroute configuration."
>      ::= { mplsFrrGeneralObjects 1 }
>
>   mplsFrrTunnelEntry            OBJECT-TYPE
>      SYNTAX                     MplsFrrTunnelEntry
>      MAX-ACCESS                 not-accessible
>      STATUS                     current
>      DESCRIPTION
>         "This entry provides Fast Reroute configuration for the
>          tunnel."
>      AUGMENTS { mplsTunnelEntry }
>      ::= {mplsFrrTunnelTable 1}
>
>   MplsFrrTunnelEntry ::= SEQUENCE {
>      mplsFrrTunnelFrrConstPointer      RowPointer
>   }
>
>   mplsFrrTunnelFrrConstPointer   OBJECT-TYPE
>      SYNTAX                      RowPointer
>      MAX-ACCESS                  read-create
>      STATUS                      current
>      DESCRIPTION
>           "This variable represents a pointer to the Fast Reroute 
>             parameter specification for this tunnel.  This value may 
>             point at an entry in the mplsFrrConstTable to indicate 
>             which mplsFrrConstEntry is to be assigned to this LSP 
>             instance.  This value may optionally point at an 
>             externally defined Fast Reroute parameter specification 
>             table.  A value of zeroDotZero indicates default Fast 
>             Reroute parameters if the fastReroute bit in the 
>             mplsTunnelSessionAttributes is set, and otherwise no Fast 
>             Reroute protection."
>      DEFVAL        { zeroDotZero }
>      ::= { mplsFrrTunnelEntry 1 }
>
>   END
>
>Similarly, the mplsFrrConstIndex field should be added to the
>mplsFrrDetourTable to describe the protection that the detour 
>is providing as follows.

	Same question as above.

<Nic>
Again, I don't have a strong argument for using an index over a RowPointer.
I suggested a simple index in this case because the tables are closely
related in the same MIB.
</Nic>

>
>
>   mplsFrrDetourFrrConstIndex OBJECT-TYPE
>      SYNTAX        MplsFrrConstIndexOrZero
>      MAX-ACCESS    read-only
>      STATUS        current
>      DESCRIPTION
>        "Index into the mplsFrrConstTable entry that specifies the
>         Fast Reroute protection that this detour is providing."
>      DEFVAL { 0 }
>      ::= { mplsFrrDetourEntry 2 }
>
>B.  The mplsFrrConstHopLimit field is not applicable to entries in this
>table representing detours, because this information is only 
>known on the
>protected LSP (signaled in the RSVP FAST_REROUTE object).  At 
>transit detour nodes there is no way to fill in this field, so I
suggest modifying the
>description to the following.
>
>      DESCRIPTION
>        "The maximum number of hops that the detour LSP may traverse.
>         This field is not relevant and should be ignored if this 
>         entry in the mplsFrrConstTable is being used in the context
>         of representing a detour LSP."

	OK.


>C.  Typo: the mplsFrrConstExclAllAffinity field should be
>mplsFrrConstExclAnyAffinity.  See section 4.1 of
>draft-ietf-mpls-rsvp-lsp-fastreroute-03, and the corresponding 
>field in the TE-MIB.

	OK.

>mplsFrrDetourTable
>==================
>
>A.  This table needn't be restricted to detour LSPs, as it is just as
>applicable to the backup LSPs used in the facility method (by 
>which I mean
>the backups that are tunneled through the bypass LSPs, not the 
>bypass LSPs
>themselves).  Simply renaming it to the mplsFrrBackupTable broadens its
>scope in this way, making it twice as useful.

	We wanted to keep things separate to keep 
conformance/implementation clean.  There is a
place to keep information related to backup LSP info.

<Nic>
There is information in this table not covered in the mplsFrrFacRouteDBTable
(or anywhere else for facility backups).  For example the XC pointer.  Hence
there is value in using this table to provide information about all backups
and not just detours.  (Note though that bypass LSPs aren't included in the
definition of "backup" - see the FRR draft).
</Nic>

>B.  I think it would be helpful to add pointers from this table to the
>mplsTunnelARHopTable and the mplsTunnelResourceTable, to 
>describe the route
>the backup traverses, and the traffic parameters it uses.  I 
>suggest the
>following new fields (for which I have adopted the rename from
>"mplsFrrDetour* to mplsFrrBackup* as suggested above).

	There are already "pointers" by virtue of looking
at the mplsTunnelTable to see the backup LSPs (and their
associated traffic parameters).  These will be entries
with special tunnelInstanceIndex values (as described).

<Nic>
I think there may be some confusion here because I have called the fields
mplsFrrBackup* rather than mplsFrrDetour* (because of my suggestion above to
rename the table in that way).  There is nothing in the mplsTunnelTable
about detours (I think that is the principle requirement for an
mplsFrrDetourTable).
</Nic>

>   mplsFrrBackupARHopPointer      OBJECT-TYPE
>      SYNTAX                      RowPointer
>      MAX-ACCESS                  read-only
>      STATUS                      current
>      DESCRIPTION
>         "This variable represents a pointer an entry in the 
>          mplsTunnelARHopTable describing the actual hops traversed 
>          by this backup LSP.  A value of zeroDotZero indicates 
>          that no record of the hops is available."
>      DEFVAL        { zeroDotZero }
>      REFERENCE
>         "Srinivansan, C., and A. Viswanathan, T. Nadeau, MPLS Traffic
>          Engineering Management Information Base Using SMIv2,
>          draft-ietf-mpls-te-mib-12.txt "
>      ::= { mplsFrrBackupEntry 6 }
>
>   mplsFrrBackupResourcePointer   OBJECT-TYPE
>      SYNTAX                      RowPointer
>      MAX-ACCESS                  read-only
>      STATUS                      current
>      DESCRIPTION
>        "This variable represents a pointer to the traffic
>          parameter specification for this backup LSP.  This
>          value may point at an entry in the
>          mplsTunnelResourceTable or may optionally point at
>          an externally defined traffic parameter specification 
>          table.  A value of zeroDotZero indicates best-effort 
>          treatment."
>      DEFVAL        { zeroDotZero }
>      REFERENCE
>         "Srinivansan, C., and A. Viswanathan, T. Nadeau, MPLS Traffic
>          Engineering Management Information Base Using SMIv2,
>          draft-ietf-mpls-te-mib-12.txt "
>      ::= { mplsFrrBackupEntry 7 }
>
>C.  The mplsFrrDetourRole and mplsFrrDetourXCPointer fields mentioned
>elsewhere in the draft have been omitted from the definition 
>of the table.
>I suggest incorporating them as follows (again, adopting the 
>rename from
>"mplsFrrDetour* to mplsFrrBackup* suggested above).
>
>   mplsFrrBackupRole OBJECT-TYPE
>      SYNTAX        BITS { head(0),
>                           merging(1)
>                         }
>      MAX-ACCESS    read-only
>      STATUS        current
>      DESCRIPTION
>        "This bitmask describes the role of this backup LSP.
>  
>         head(0) This flag indicates that this LSR is the 
>           PLR for this backup.
>
>         merging(1) This flag indicates that this backup 
>           merges with some other backups and/or the 
>           protected LSP at this LSR."
>      ::= { mplsFrrBackupEntry 8 }
>
>   mplsFrrBackupXCPointer OBJECT-TYPE
>      SYNTAX        RowPointer
>      MAX-ACCESS    read-create
>      STATUS        current
>      DESCRIPTION
>        "This variable points to a row in the mplsXCTable.
>         This table identifies the segments that compose
>         this tunnel, their characteristics, and
>         relationships to each other."
>      REFERENCE
>        "Srinivasan, C., Viswanathan, A., and T. Nadeau, MPLS
>         Label Switch Router Management Information Base,
>         Internet Draft <draft-ietf-mpls-lsr-mib-10.txt>,
>         June 2003."
>      DEFVAL        { zeroDotZero }
>      ::= { mplsFrrBackupEntry 9 }
>

<Nic>
Any comments on this last suggestion?
</Nic>



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--_NextPart_000_0184F086--



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Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 01:56:48 -0700 (PDT)
From: Kireeti Kompella <kireeti@juniper.net>
To: mpls@UU.NET
Subject: who, me, infected?
Message-ID: <20030928015342.B49488@kummer.juniper.net>
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For those not yet aware of how this virus works, it is rarely the
'sender' who is infected.

For those interested in knowing how _I_ know I am not infected --
simple: I don't read email on a Windoze machine.

Kireeti.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 4:04:02 +0530
From: kireeti@juniper.net
To: mpls@UU.NET
Subject: Re: That movie

See the attached file for details


From owner-mpls@UU.NET  Sun Sep 28 05:54:47 2003
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Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 22:12:16 -0400
To: mplsrc_news@mplsrc.com
From: MPLS Resource Center News <news@mplsrc.com>
Subject: MPLScon 2004 - Special Announcement
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<html>
Special Announcement from the MPLS Resource Center:<br><br>
&quot;MPLScon 2004&quot; The MPLS Conference And Exhibition<br>
May 24-27,New York City, NY<br>
New York Marriott Financial Center<br><br>
&quot;Call for Presentations&quot; is now available at:<br>
<a href="http://www.mplscon.com/speaker/submit_pres.html" eudora="autourl">http://www.mplscon.com/speaker/submit_pres.html</a><br><br>
Now entering its fourth year, MPLScon is the premier industry conference
focusing on MPLS technologies, solutions, and industry trends. This
year’s event is again in New York City, where we will focus on benefits,
trends, and challenges in evaluating, buying, implementing and managing
MPLS-VPN services from an end-user perspective. The goal of this year’s
conference is to provide enterprise network managers with the information
they need to understand and implement MPLS-based services for their
organizations.<br><br>
MPLScon invites qualified individuals to submit speaking proposals in the
topic areas listed in the CFP. Conference speakers will include those
responsible for the development of MPLS technologies, implementing and
integrating MPLS technologies into real-world networks, managing
MPLS-enabled networks, and marketing MPLS-based products and services.
Conference speakers are intended to be a mix of enterprise, service
provider, vendor, integrator and independent analyst
representatives.<br><br>
Speakers are expected to have specific expertise in the areas that they
will discuss. Participating exhibitor companies are encouraged to submit
proposals, which will be considered for acceptance along with other
proposals. Vendors and Service Providers are <b>strongly </b>encouraged
to submit end-user case studies or join customer/vendor presentation
proposals.<br><br>
Questions? Contact Irwin Lazar, Conference Director, at
&quot;ilazar@mplscon.com&quot; or 703-742-9659<br>
</html>



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Message-Id: <QQphmj28089.200309240515@cmr1.ash.ops.us.uu.net>
To: <mpls@UU.NET>
Subject: Re: Re: My details
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 0:54:19 +0530
X-MailScanner: Found to be clean
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From owner-mpls@UU.NET  Mon Sep 29 06:17:20 2003
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From: "Wijnen, Bert (Bert)" <bwijnen@lucent.com>
To: "Mpls (E-mail)" <mpls@UU.NET>
Subject: MPLS MIB documents
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 11:43:19 +0200
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Mmmm.... we had pretty good momentum late August when we got the
MIB documents through the WG Last Call and issued IETF Last Call.

It seems to me that some of the IETF Last Call comments have 
NOT yet been addressed/answered. 

Can we PLEASE keep up the momentum and make sure that we get
these work items finished BEFORE the next IETF? 
In order to do so, that means: ACTION this week!

Thanks,
Bert 


From owner-mpls@UU.NET  Tue Sep 30 09:11:44 2003
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Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 08:48:39 -0400
To: Nic.Neate@dataconnection.com
From: Jean Philippe Vasseur <jvasseur@cisco.com>
Subject: Fwd: JP Please Look At this
Cc: mpls@UU.NET, riza.cetin@alcatel.be;, stefaan.de_cnodder@alcatel.be,
        der-Hwa Gan <dhg@juniper.net>, tnadeau@cisco.com
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Nic,

See comments in line,

>From: Nic Neate [mailto:Nic.Neate@dataconnection.com]
>Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2003 7:42 AM
>To: Cisco - Thomas Nadeau
>Cc: mpls@uu.net; riza.cetin@alcatel.be; stefaan.de_cnodder@alcatel.be;
>Juniper - Der-Hwa Gan
>Subject: RE: Suggested improvements to the Fast Reroute MIB definition
>in draft-ietf-mpls-fastreroute-mib-01
>
>
>Tom,
>
>Thanks for your feedback.  Responses inline - I think my points still
>stand.
>
>Nic.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Cisco - Thomas Nadeau
>Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2003 8:32 PM
>To: Nic Neate; riza.cetin@alcatel.be; stefaan.de_cnodder@alcatel.be;
>Juniper - Der-Hwa Gan
>Cc: mpls@uu.net
>Subject: RE: Suggested improvements to the Fast Reroute MIB definition
>in draft-ietf-mpls-fastreroute-mib-01
>
>
>
>         Replies inline.
>
>         --Tom
>
>
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Nic Neate [mailto:Nic.Neate@dataconnection.com]
> >Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2003 6:13 AM
> >To: 'riza.cetin@alcatel.be'; 'stefaan.de_cnodder@alcatel.be';
> >Juniper - Der-Hwa Gan; Cisco - Thomas Nadeau
> >Cc: 'mpls@uu.net'
> >Subject: Suggested improvements to the Fast Reroute MIB
> >definition in draft-ietf-mpls-fastreroute-mib-01
> >
> >
> >All,
> >
> >I've been looking at Fast Reroute MIB draft
> >(draft-ietf-mpls-fastreroute-mib-01.txt) and I think there are
> >a few bugs.
> >I've suggested fixes and raised some other ideas below.  These
> >concern the
> >mplsFrrConstProtectionMethod scalar, the mplsFrrConstTable and the
> >mplsFrrDetourTable.
> >
> >Please let me know if you agree with these proposals, or have
> >any further
> >suggestions.  Thanks,
> >
> >Nic
> >
> >
> >mplsFrrConstProtectionMethod scalar
> >===================================
> >
> >This scalar configures the protection method that is to be
> >used.  Currently,
> >this applies to all LSPs traversing the LSR, however this
> >option should be
> >configurable per-LSP.  Hence the mplsFrrConstProtectionMethod
> >should rather be a field in the mplsFrrConstTable.  This allows an LSR
>to
> >simultaneously support LSPs using both protection methods, and
>interoperate
> >between them, as allowed by the Fast Reroute draft.

The FRR draft allows to support both one-to-one and facility backup and the 
preference for one method or the other can be signalled in the FAST REROUTE 
object but on a single hop, one *or* the other will be used to protect a 
single fast reroutable, not *both*. Moreover, bear in mind that from a 
realistic standpoint, the likelihood that both method are deployed in the 
same network is not very high, except during a transition period.

In my opinion the current MIB structure perfectly makes sense.

JP.


>         It is our understanding that only One2One or Facillity
>can be used on all LSPs that a given LSR supports, thus
>the configuration is done globally.  We do not
>know of any products that support both at the same time,
>or any that plan to. Can both be supported at the same
>time given the current definitions of the standard?
>
><Nic>
>Data Connection has an implementation that supports both methods at the
>same
>time.  This is covered by the spec - see this paragraph from section 0
>of
>the FRR draft.
>
>    This draft rationalizes the RSVP signaling for both methods such
>    that any implementation can recognize all FRR requests and clearly
>    respond, either positively if they are capable of performing the
>    method, or with a clear error such that requester is informed and
>    can seek alternate means of backup.  This draft also allows a
>    single implementation to support both methods, thereby providing a
>    range of capabilities.  Thus the described behavior and extensions
>    to RSVP allow LERs and LSRs to implement either or both methods.
></Nic>
>
> >I suggest removing the mplsFrrConstProtectionMethod scalar,
> >and adding the
> >following field to the mplsFrrConstTable.
> >
> >   mplsFrrConstProtectionMethod OBJECT-TYPE
> >      SYNTAX        INTEGER { oneToOneBackup(0),
> >                              facilityBackup(1)
> >                            }
> >      MAX-ACCESS    read-write
> >      STATUS        current
> >      DESCRIPTION
> >        "Indicates which protection method is to be used for fast
> >         reroute."
> >      ::= { mplsFrrConstEntry 4 }
> >
> >Note that the other references to the
> >mplsFrrConstProtectionMethod will need
> >to be updated correspondingly, and in particular the
> >definitions of most of
> >the other scalars.
> >
> >
> >mplsFrrConstTable
> >=================
> >
> >A.  The current indexing (mplsFrrConstIfIndex,
> >mplsFrrConstTunnelIndex and
> >mplsFrrConstTunnelInstance) is not sufficient in the case that
> >two different
> >LSPs use the same interface and have the same tunnel index and tunnel
> >instance (but different ingress and egress LSR IDs) and
> >require different Fast Reroute configuration.
>
>         By "different FRR configuration" do you mean two
>mean One2One and Facillity?  If so, paste in my response
>from above here.
>
><Nic>
>By "different FRR configuration" I mean any difference in the
>configuration
>supplied by the mplsFrrConstTable, for example a different
>mplsFrrConstBandwidth for the backup LSPs.
></Nic>
>
> >Rather than adjusting the current indexing, I suggest
> >replacing the three
> >existing indices with a single integer index,
> >mplsFrrConstIndex.  This index
> >can then be referenced from the mplsTunnelTable and the
> >mplsFrrDetourTable,
> >establishing a simple indexing system with clear relationships
> >between the
> >tables (which is also in line with existing relationships
> >between tables in
> >the TE-MIB and LSR-MIB).  Some suggested text follows.
> >
> >   MplsFrrConstIndex ::= TEXTUAL-CONVENTION
> >      STATUS        current
> >      DESCRIPTION
> >        "Index into mplsFrrConstTable."
> >      SYNTAX  Integer32 (1..65535)
> >
> >   mplsFrrConstIndex OBJECT-TYPE
> >      SYNTAX        MplsFrrConstIndex
> >      MAX-ACCESS    not-accessible
> >      STATUS        current
> >      DESCRIPTION
> >           "Uniquely identifies this row."
> >      ::= { mplsFrrConstEntry 1 }
> >
> >The mplsTunnelTable should then be extended with a row pointer
> >to indicate the mplsFrrConstTable to be used to configure Fast Reroute
> >protection for that tunnel as follows.
>
>         Why do you suggest using a RowPointer over pure
>indexes?
>
><Nic>
>I don't have a strong argument either way - in your capacity as "Mr MIB"
>you're best placed to advise.  I originally suggested a RowPointer
>because
>the mplsFrrConstTable and mplsTunnelTable are in different MIBs, and
>because
>some implementations may wish to use some other table for FRR
>configuration.
>Currently the mplsTunnelTable contains both RowPointers and indices to
>reference other tables - I'd be interested to know what the logic is in
>the
>existing cases for choosing one over the other.
></Nic>
>
> >   -- MPLS Fast Reroute Tunnel Table
> >
> >   mplsFrrTunnelTable            OBJECT-TYPE
> >      SYNTAX                     SEQUENCE OF MplsFrrTunnelEntry
> >      MAX-ACCESS                 not-accessible
> >      STATUS                     current
> >      DESCRIPTION
> >         "This table extends the mplsTunnelTable defined in the
> >          MPLS-TE MIB to provide Fast Reroute configuration."
> >      ::= { mplsFrrGeneralObjects 1 }
> >
> >   mplsFrrTunnelEntry            OBJECT-TYPE
> >      SYNTAX                     MplsFrrTunnelEntry
> >      MAX-ACCESS                 not-accessible
> >      STATUS                     current
> >      DESCRIPTION
> >         "This entry provides Fast Reroute configuration for the
> >          tunnel."
> >      AUGMENTS { mplsTunnelEntry }
> >      ::= {mplsFrrTunnelTable 1}
> >
> >   MplsFrrTunnelEntry ::= SEQUENCE {
> >      mplsFrrTunnelFrrConstPointer      RowPointer
> >   }
> >
> >   mplsFrrTunnelFrrConstPointer   OBJECT-TYPE
> >      SYNTAX                      RowPointer
> >      MAX-ACCESS                  read-create
> >      STATUS                      current
> >      DESCRIPTION
> >           "This variable represents a pointer to the Fast Reroute
> >             parameter specification for this tunnel.  This value may
> >             point at an entry in the mplsFrrConstTable to indicate
> >             which mplsFrrConstEntry is to be assigned to this LSP
> >             instance.  This value may optionally point at an
> >             externally defined Fast Reroute parameter specification
> >             table.  A value of zeroDotZero indicates default Fast
> >             Reroute parameters if the fastReroute bit in the
> >             mplsTunnelSessionAttributes is set, and otherwise no Fast
> >             Reroute protection."
> >      DEFVAL        { zeroDotZero }
> >      ::= { mplsFrrTunnelEntry 1 }
> >
> >   END
> >
> >Similarly, the mplsFrrConstIndex field should be added to the
> >mplsFrrDetourTable to describe the protection that the detour
> >is providing as follows.
>
>         Same question as above.
>
><Nic>
>Again, I don't have a strong argument for using an index over a
>RowPointer.
>I suggested a simple index in this case because the tables are closely
>related in the same MIB.
></Nic>
>
> >
> >
> >   mplsFrrDetourFrrConstIndex OBJECT-TYPE
> >      SYNTAX        MplsFrrConstIndexOrZero
> >      MAX-ACCESS    read-only
> >      STATUS        current
> >      DESCRIPTION
> >        "Index into the mplsFrrConstTable entry that specifies the
> >         Fast Reroute protection that this detour is providing."
> >      DEFVAL { 0 }
> >      ::= { mplsFrrDetourEntry 2 }
> >
> >B.  The mplsFrrConstHopLimit field is not applicable to entries in this
> >table representing detours, because this information is only
> >known on the
> >protected LSP (signaled in the RSVP FAST_REROUTE object).  At
> >transit detour nodes there is no way to fill in this field, so I
>suggest modifying the
> >description to the following.
> >
> >      DESCRIPTION
> >        "The maximum number of hops that the detour LSP may traverse.
> >         This field is not relevant and should be ignored if this
> >         entry in the mplsFrrConstTable is being used in the context
> >         of representing a detour LSP."
>
>         OK.
>
>
> >C.  Typo: the mplsFrrConstExclAllAffinity field should be
> >mplsFrrConstExclAnyAffinity.  See section 4.1 of
> >draft-ietf-mpls-rsvp-lsp-fastreroute-03, and the corresponding
> >field in the TE-MIB.
>
>         OK.
>
> >mplsFrrDetourTable
> >==================
> >
> >A.  This table needn't be restricted to detour LSPs, as it is just as
> >applicable to the backup LSPs used in the facility method (by
> >which I mean
> >the backups that are tunneled through the bypass LSPs, not the
> >bypass LSPs
> >themselves).  Simply renaming it to the mplsFrrBackupTable broadens its
> >scope in this way, making it twice as useful.
>
>         We wanted to keep things separate to keep
>conformance/implementation clean.  There is a
>place to keep information related to backup LSP info.
>
><Nic>
>There is information in this table not covered in the
>mplsFrrFacRouteDBTable
>(or anywhere else for facility backups).  For example the XC pointer.
>Hence
>there is value in using this table to provide information about all
>backups
>and not just detours.  (Note though that bypass LSPs aren't included in
>the
>definition of "backup" - see the FRR draft).
></Nic>
>
> >B.  I think it would be helpful to add pointers from this table to the
> >mplsTunnelARHopTable and the mplsTunnelResourceTable, to
> >describe the route
> >the backup traverses, and the traffic parameters it uses.  I
> >suggest the
> >following new fields (for which I have adopted the rename from
> >"mplsFrrDetour* to mplsFrrBackup* as suggested above).
>
>         There are already "pointers" by virtue of looking
>at the mplsTunnelTable to see the backup LSPs (and their
>associated traffic parameters).  These will be entries
>with special tunnelInstanceIndex values (as described).
>
><Nic>
>I think there may be some confusion here because I have called the
>fields
>mplsFrrBackup* rather than mplsFrrDetour* (because of my suggestion
>above to
>rename the table in that way).  There is nothing in the mplsTunnelTable
>about detours (I think that is the principle requirement for an
>mplsFrrDetourTable).
></Nic>
>
> >   mplsFrrBackupARHopPointer      OBJECT-TYPE
> >      SYNTAX                      RowPointer
> >      MAX-ACCESS                  read-only
> >      STATUS                      current
> >      DESCRIPTION
> >         "This variable represents a pointer an entry in the
> >          mplsTunnelARHopTable describing the actual hops traversed
> >          by this backup LSP.  A value of zeroDotZero indicates
> >          that no record of the hops is available."
> >      DEFVAL        { zeroDotZero }
> >      REFERENCE
> >         "Srinivansan, C., and A. Viswanathan, T. Nadeau, MPLS Traffic
> >          Engineering Management Information Base Using SMIv2,
> >          draft-ietf-mpls-te-mib-12.txt "
> >      ::= { mplsFrrBackupEntry 6 }
> >
> >   mplsFrrBackupResourcePointer   OBJECT-TYPE
> >      SYNTAX                      RowPointer
> >      MAX-ACCESS                  read-only
> >      STATUS                      current
> >      DESCRIPTION
> >        "This variable represents a pointer to the traffic
> >          parameter specification for this backup LSP.  This
> >          value may point at an entry in the
> >          mplsTunnelResourceTable or may optionally point at
> >          an externally defined traffic parameter specification
> >          table.  A value of zeroDotZero indicates best-effort
> >          treatment."
> >      DEFVAL        { zeroDotZero }
> >      REFERENCE
> >         "Srinivansan, C., and A. Viswanathan, T. Nadeau, MPLS Traffic
> >          Engineering Management Information Base Using SMIv2,
> >          draft-ietf-mpls-te-mib-12.txt "
> >      ::= { mplsFrrBackupEntry 7 }
> >
> >C.  The mplsFrrDetourRole and mplsFrrDetourXCPointer fields mentioned
> >elsewhere in the draft have been omitted from the definition
> >of the table.
> >I suggest incorporating them as follows (again, adopting the
> >rename from
> >"mplsFrrDetour* to mplsFrrBackup* suggested above).
> >
> >   mplsFrrBackupRole OBJECT-TYPE
> >      SYNTAX        BITS { head(0),
> >                           merging(1)
> >                         }
> >      MAX-ACCESS    read-only
> >      STATUS        current
> >      DESCRIPTION
> >        "This bitmask describes the role of this backup LSP.
> >
> >         head(0) This flag indicates that this LSR is the
> >           PLR for this backup.
> >
> >         merging(1) This flag indicates that this backup
> >           merges with some other backups and/or the
> >           protected LSP at this LSR."
> >      ::= { mplsFrrBackupEntry 8 }
> >
> >   mplsFrrBackupXCPointer OBJECT-TYPE
> >      SYNTAX        RowPointer
> >      MAX-ACCESS    read-create
> >      STATUS        current
> >      DESCRIPTION
> >        "This variable points to a row in the mplsXCTable.
> >         This table identifies the segments that compose
> >         this tunnel, their characteristics, and
> >         relationships to each other."
> >      REFERENCE
> >        "Srinivasan, C., Viswanathan, A., and T. Nadeau, MPLS
> >         Label Switch Router Management Information Base,
> >         Internet Draft <draft-ietf-mpls-lsr-mib-10.txt>,
> >         June 2003."
> >      DEFVAL        { zeroDotZero }
> >      ::= { mplsFrrBackupEntry 9 }
> >
>
><Nic>
>Any comments on this last suggestion?
></Nic>



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From: Nic Neate <Nic.Neate@dataconnection.com>
To: Cisco - Thomas Nadeau <tnadeau@cisco.com>,
        "'Jean Philippe Vasseur'"
	 <jvasseur@cisco.com>
Cc: mpls@UU.NET, riza.cetin@alcatel.be, stefaan.de_cnodder@alcatel.be,
        Juniper - Der-Hwa Gan <dhg@juniper.net>
Subject: RE: JP Please Look At this
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 17:38:19 +0100
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Cisco - Thomas Nadeau 
> Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2003 5:02 PM
> To: Nic Neate; 'Jean Philippe Vasseur'
> Cc: mpls@uu.net; riza.cetin@alcatel.be; stefaan.de_cnodder@alcatel.be;
> Juniper - Der-Hwa Gan
> Subject: RE: JP Please Look At this
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Nic Neate [mailto:Nic.Neate@dataconnection.com] 
> >Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2003 11:42 AM
> >To: 'Jean Philippe Vasseur'
> >Cc: mpls@uu.net; riza.cetin@alcatel.be; 
> >stefaan.de_cnodder@alcatel.be; Juniper - Der-Hwa Gan; Cisco - 
> >Thomas Nadeau
> >Subject: RE: JP Please Look At this
> >
> >
> >JP,
> >
> >Responses are inline.  My main concern here is that the FRR 
> >MIB should be
> >consistent with the FRR draft.
> >
> >Thanks, Nic
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Jean Philippe Vasseur [mailto:jvasseur@cisco.com]
> >> Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2003 1:49 PM
> >> To: Nic Neate
> >> Cc: mpls@uu.net; riza.cetin@alcatel.be; 
> >stefaan.de_cnodder@alcatel.be;
> >> Juniper - Der-Hwa Gan; Cisco - Thomas Nadeau
> >> Subject: Fwd: JP Please Look At this
> >> 
> >> 
> >> Nic,
> >> 
> >> See comments in line,
> >> 
> >
> ><snip>
> >
> >> > >mplsFrrConstProtectionMethod scalar
> >> > >===================================
> >> > >
> >> > >This scalar configures the protection method that is to be
> >> > >used.  Currently,
> >> > >this applies to all LSPs traversing the LSR, however this
> >> > >option should be
> >> > >configurable per-LSP.  Hence the mplsFrrConstProtectionMethod
> >> > >should rather be a field in the mplsFrrConstTable.  This 
> >> allows an LSR
> >> >to
> >> > >simultaneously support LSPs using both protection methods, and
> >> >interoperate
> >> > >between them, as allowed by the Fast Reroute draft.
> >> 
> >> The FRR draft allows to support both one-to-one and facility 
> >> backup and the 
> >> preference for one method or the other can be signalled in 
> >> the FAST REROUTE 
> >> object but on a single hop, one *or* the other will be used 
> >> to protect a 
> >> single fast reroutable, not *both*.
> >
> >That's exactly my point - each LSP will use a single FRR 
> >protection method,
> >which hence should be configured in the mplsFrrConstTable.
> >
> >> Moreover, bear in mind 
> >> that from a 
> >> realistic standpoint, the likelihood that both method are 
> >> deployed in the 
> >> same network is not very high, except during a transition period.
> >
> >Yes, I agree, but the FRR draft does nonetheless allow for a 
> >single LSR to
> >simultaneously support both protection methods.  The FRR MIB 
> >must therefore allow that as well.
> 
> 	Well, it does in a very clean way. It just doesn't in
> the way you are asking for. *) Let me reiterate the reasoning
> behind the current structure which splits the mib into
> three pieces: a common piece, one2one, and facility sections.
> 
> 	1) 	This separation makes it more easy to implement.
> 		If you support one mechanism or another,
> 		you can pick and choose which tables to implement.
> 		The code you generate from the MIB is very
> 		straight-forward. If you for example, want to
> 		implement one2one, you delete all of the facillity-
> 		related code that your compiler generates.
> 
> 	2) 	This separation makes it easier for a device to 
> 		comply with	the standard MIB.  There is no confusion
> 		about which objects apply to which mechanism.
> 
> 	3)	There is less potential for error on the authors'
> 		parts too, because we don't have to worry about
> 		having special parts of description clauses for
> 		each mechanism, or worry about discussing which
> 		object applies depending on the FRR mode.
> 
> 	4)	This makes implementations more efficient because
> 		they will not return columns that do not make
> 		sense for a particular FRR mode. The assumption
> 		is that most implementations will deploy one mode
> 		or another at any given time, so having them
> 		return useless columns wastes CPU time, network
> 		bandwidth, and generally is a waste.
> 
> 	5)	It makes it very convienent for a manager
> 		to quickly and easily go and look at tables
> 		specific to the FRR mechanism they are employing
> 		in their network. If they happen to be in a transition
> 		from one type to another, the device can certainly
> 		return entries from the other mechanism's table
> 		until the transition is completed.
> 
> 	--Tom
> 

That all makes perfect sense.  The mplsFrrConstTable belongs in the common
section of the MIB though.  I should have made that clear from the
beginning.  Without that, there is no way to configure the FAST_REROUTE
object when using facility backup.

All of the fields in this table apply equally to facility and one to one
backup, with no special "Description" clauses required.  That makes it the
natural place to also say whether this tunnel uses facility or one to one
backup.

Nic

> 
> 
> >
> >Nic
> >
> >> 
> >> In my opinion the current MIB structure perfectly makes sense.
> >> 
> >> JP.
> >> 
> >
> 



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        riza.cetin@alcatel.be, Juniper - Der-Hwa Gan <dhg@juniper.net>
Subject: Re: Suggested improvements to the Fast Reroute MIB definition in 
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Nic,

see below about comment C...

> >C.  The mplsFrrDetourRole and mplsFrrDetourXCPointer fields mentioned
> >elsewhere in the draft have been omitted from the definition
> >of the table.
> >I suggest incorporating them as follows (again, adopting the
> >rename from
> >"mplsFrrDetour* to mplsFrrBackup* suggested above).
> >
> >   mplsFrrBackupRole OBJECT-TYPE
> >      SYNTAX        BITS { head(0),
> >                           merging(1)
> >                         }
> >      MAX-ACCESS    read-only
> >      STATUS        current
> >      DESCRIPTION
> >        "This bitmask describes the role of this backup LSP.
> >
> >         head(0) This flag indicates that this LSR is the
> >           PLR for this backup.
> >
> >         merging(1) This flag indicates that this backup
> >           merges with some other backups and/or the
> >           protected LSP at this LSR."
> >      ::= { mplsFrrBackupEntry 8 }
> >
> >   mplsFrrBackupXCPointer OBJECT-TYPE
> >      SYNTAX        RowPointer
> >      MAX-ACCESS    read-create
> >      STATUS        current
> >      DESCRIPTION
> >        "This variable points to a row in the mplsXCTable.
> >         This table identifies the segments that compose
> >         this tunnel, their characteristics, and
> >         relationships to each other."
> >      REFERENCE
> >        "Srinivasan, C., Viswanathan, A., and T. Nadeau, MPLS
> >         Label Switch Router Management Information Base,
> >         Internet Draft <draft-ietf-mpls-lsr-mib-10.txt>,
> >         June 2003."
> >      DEFVAL        { zeroDotZero }
> >      ::= { mplsFrrBackupEntry 9 }
> >

We removed these fields in the 01 version because it was
already in the mplsTunnelTable so the names in the draft
should change into mplsTunnelRole and mplsTunnelXCPointer.

thanks,

Stefaan


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Reply-To: <tnadeau@cisco.com>
From: "Thomas D. Nadeau" <tnadeau@cisco.com>
To: "'Nic Neate'" <Nic.Neate@dataconnection.com>,
        "'Jean Philippe Vasseur'" <jvasseur@cisco.com>
Cc: <mpls@UU.NET>, <riza.cetin@alcatel.be>, <stefaan.de_cnodder@alcatel.be>,
        "'Juniper - Der-Hwa Gan'" <dhg@juniper.net>
Subject: RE: JP Please Look At this
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 12:02:16 -0400
Organization: Cisco Systems, inc.
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>-----Original Message-----
>From: Nic Neate [mailto:Nic.Neate@dataconnection.com] 
>Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2003 11:42 AM
>To: 'Jean Philippe Vasseur'
>Cc: mpls@uu.net; riza.cetin@alcatel.be; 
>stefaan.de_cnodder@alcatel.be; Juniper - Der-Hwa Gan; Cisco - 
>Thomas Nadeau
>Subject: RE: JP Please Look At this
>
>
>JP,
>
>Responses are inline.  My main concern here is that the FRR 
>MIB should be
>consistent with the FRR draft.
>
>Thanks, Nic
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Jean Philippe Vasseur [mailto:jvasseur@cisco.com]
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2003 1:49 PM
>> To: Nic Neate
>> Cc: mpls@uu.net; riza.cetin@alcatel.be; 
>stefaan.de_cnodder@alcatel.be;
>> Juniper - Der-Hwa Gan; Cisco - Thomas Nadeau
>> Subject: Fwd: JP Please Look At this
>> 
>> 
>> Nic,
>> 
>> See comments in line,
>> 
>
><snip>
>
>> > >mplsFrrConstProtectionMethod scalar
>> > >===================================
>> > >
>> > >This scalar configures the protection method that is to be
>> > >used.  Currently,
>> > >this applies to all LSPs traversing the LSR, however this
>> > >option should be
>> > >configurable per-LSP.  Hence the mplsFrrConstProtectionMethod
>> > >should rather be a field in the mplsFrrConstTable.  This 
>> allows an LSR
>> >to
>> > >simultaneously support LSPs using both protection methods, and
>> >interoperate
>> > >between them, as allowed by the Fast Reroute draft.
>> 
>> The FRR draft allows to support both one-to-one and facility 
>> backup and the 
>> preference for one method or the other can be signalled in 
>> the FAST REROUTE 
>> object but on a single hop, one *or* the other will be used 
>> to protect a 
>> single fast reroutable, not *both*.
>
>That's exactly my point - each LSP will use a single FRR 
>protection method,
>which hence should be configured in the mplsFrrConstTable.
>
>> Moreover, bear in mind 
>> that from a 
>> realistic standpoint, the likelihood that both method are 
>> deployed in the 
>> same network is not very high, except during a transition period.
>
>Yes, I agree, but the FRR draft does nonetheless allow for a 
>single LSR to
>simultaneously support both protection methods.  The FRR MIB 
>must therefore allow that as well.

	Well, it does in a very clean way. It just doesn't in
the way you are asking for. *) Let me reiterate the reasoning
behind the current structure which splits the mib into
three pieces: a common piece, one2one, and facility sections.

	1) 	This separation makes it more easy to implement.
		If you support one mechanism or another,
		you can pick and choose which tables to implement.
		The code you generate from the MIB is very
		straight-forward. If you for example, want to
		implement one2one, you delete all of the facillity-
		related code that your compiler generates.

	2) 	This separation makes it easier for a device to 
		comply with	the standard MIB.  There is no confusion
		about which objects apply to which mechanism.

	3)	There is less potential for error on the authors'
		parts too, because we don't have to worry about
		having special parts of description clauses for
		each mechanism, or worry about discussing which
		object applies depending on the FRR mode.

	4)	This makes implementations more efficient because
		they will not return columns that do not make
		sense for a particular FRR mode. The assumption
		is that most implementations will deploy one mode
		or another at any given time, so having them
		return useless columns wastes CPU time, network
		bandwidth, and generally is a waste.

	5)	It makes it very convienent for a manager
		to quickly and easily go and look at tables
		specific to the FRR mechanism they are employing
		in their network. If they happen to be in a transition
		from one type to another, the device can certainly
		return entries from the other mechanism's table
		until the transition is completed.

	--Tom



>
>Nic
>
>> 
>> In my opinion the current MIB structure perfectly makes sense.
>> 
>> JP.
>> 
>



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From: "Wijnen, Bert (Bert)" <bwijnen@lucent.com>
To: "Mpls (E-mail)" <mpls@UU.NET>
Subject: FW: draft-ietf-mpls-tc-mib-06a.txt
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 20:10:41 +0200
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[sorry, again forwarding to the WG list.
 it is only after I respond to these emails that I notice
 that document authors seem to not copy the WG list
 PLEASE do so from now on]

Thanks,
Bert 

-----Original Message-----
From: Wijnen, Bert (Bert) 
Sent: dinsdag 30 september 2003 20:08
To: 'tnadeau@cisco.com'; Wijnen, Bert (Bert); 'Joan Cucchiara x302';
'Kireeti Kompella'; swallow@cisco.com; loa@pi.se; mrm@riverstone.net;
zinin@psg.com; adrian@olddog.co.uk
Cc: arunv@force10networks.com; hans@ipunplugged.com;
jcucchiara@mindspring.com; cheenu@alumni.princeton.edu
Subject: RE: draft-ietf-mpls-tc-mib-06a.txt


> 
> 
> 	The reason why the multiple fields
> were left in place was because someone (Arun
> I think) pointed out that you may want to
> specify a hop address AND an AS number for
> the case where you want to get to a specific
> AS *through* a specific HOP.
> 

a TeHopAddress can contain an AS number.
So if you have a separate field for AS number what would then
be in the TeHopAddress??? And why would you need two addesses
to get to one place? SOrry I am confused here

Bert
> 	--Tom
> 
> 
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Wijnen, Bert (Bert) [mailto:bwijnen@lucent.com] 
> >Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2003 10:31 AM
> >To: 'Joan Cucchiara x302'; 'tnadeau@cisco.com'; 'Kireeti 
> >Kompella'; 'swallow@cisco.com'; 'loa@pi.se'; Wijnen, Bert 
> >(Bert); 'mrm@riverstone.net'; 'zinin@psg.com'; 'adrian@olddog.co.uk'
> >Cc: arunv@force10networks.com; hans@ipunplugged.com; 
> >jcucchiara@mindspring.com; cheenu@alumni.princeton.edu
> >Subject: RE: draft-ietf-mpls-tc-mib-06a.txt
> >
> >
> >Inline
> >
> >Thanks,
> >Bert 
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Joan Cucchiara x302 [mailto:jcucchiara@Artel.com]
> >> Sent: dinsdag 30 september 2003 15:29
> >> To: 'tnadeau@cisco.com'; 'Kireeti Kompella'; Joan Cucchiara x302;
> >> 'swallow@cisco.com'; 'loa@pi.se'; 'bwijnen@lucent.com';
> >> 'mrm@riverstone.net'; 'zinin@psg.com'; 'adrian@olddog.co.uk'
> >> Cc: arunv@force10networks.com; hans@ipunplugged.com;
> >> jcucchiara@mindspring.com; cheenu@alumni.princeton.edu
> >> Subject: RE: draft-ietf-mpls-tc-mib-06a.txt
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> Hi Kireeti,
> >> 
> >> 
> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> > From: Thomas D. Nadeau [mailto:tnadeau@cisco.com]
> >> > Sent: Monday, September 29, 2003 12:26 PM
> >> > To: 'Kireeti Kompella'; 'Joan Cucchiara x302'
> >> > Cc: arunv@force10networks.com; hans@ipunplugged.com;
> >> > jcucchiara@mindspring.com; cheenu@alumni.princeton.edu
> >> > Subject: RE: draft-ietf-mpls-tc-mib-06a.txt
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > >-----Original Message-----
> >> > >From: Kireeti Kompella [mailto:kireeti@juniper.net] 
> >> > >Sent: Monday, September 29, 2003 11:46 AM
> >> > >To: Joan Cucchiara x302
> >> > >Cc: arun@force10networks.com; cheenu@paramanet.com; 
> >> > >hans@ipunplugged.com; jcucchiara@mindspring.com; 
> >> > >tnadeau@cisco.com; Kireeti Kompella
> >> > >Subject: RE: draft-ietf-mpls-tc-mib-06a.txt
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >Hi Joan et al,
> >> > >
> >> > >In a review of the TE MIB, I was asked to explain why 
> >hops in general
> >> > >could include AS numbers.  I think that the best place to 
> >explain that
> >> > >would be in the TC MIB, rather than every place that the 
> >Hop TCs are
> >> > >used.  If you all agree, I will supply text to go in the 
> >description.
> >> 
> >> Can we check with Bert and Mike on this?  I am not opposed 
> but would
> >> like to make sure it is okay with Bert and Mike from MIB Dr.
> >> point of view?
> >> 
> >> Am cc'ing the larger group of folks. Hope that is okay!
> >> 
> >I am OK and all for better descriptions. So adding text as to why 
> >AS numbers and unnumbered links is a Good Thing I think.
> >It will not change semantix, it will only clarify (better explain)
> >things.
> >
> >More below
> >
> >>    thanks, Joan
> >> 
> >> 
> >> > >
> >> > >BTW, looking at the MPLS TE MIB, I see that I don't 
> >understand TCs!
> >> > >The MplsTunnelHopEntry is:
> >> > >
> >> > >MplsTunnelHopEntry ::= SEQUENCE {
> >> > >      mplsTunnelHopListIndex          MplsPathIndex,
> >> > >      mplsTunnelHopPathOptionIndex    MplsPathIndex,
> >> > >      mplsTunnelHopIndex              MplsPathIndex,
> >> > >      mplsTunnelHopAddrType           TeHopAddressType,
> >> > >      mplsTunnelHopIpAddr             TeHopAddress,
> >> > >      mplsTunnelHopIpPrefixLen        InetAddressPrefixLength,
> >> > >      mplsTunnelHopAsNumber           TeHopAddressAS,
> >> > >      mplsTunnelHopAddrUnnum          TeHopAddressUnnum,
> >> > >      mplsTunnelHopLspId              MplsLSPID,
> >> > >      <etc>
> >> > >
> >> > >I was under the impression that one could just have:
> >> > >MplsTunnelHopEntry ::= SEQUENCE {
> >> > >      mplsTunnelHopListIndex          MplsPathIndex,
> >> > >      mplsTunnelHopPathOptionIndex    MplsPathIndex,
> >> > >      mplsTunnelHopIndex              MplsPathIndex,
> >> > >      mplsTunnelHopAddrType           TeHopAddressType,
> >> > >      mplsTunnelHopIpAddr             TeHopAddress,
> >> > >      <etc>
> >> > >
> >> > >as the TeHopAddress TC includes AS and unnum ...  I 
> guess that is
> >> > >wrong?
> >> > 
> >> > 	The AS and UnNum are in separate objects
> >> > so that they can be represented that way
> >> > (rather than say an opaque octet string).
> >> > 
> >Mmm... I believe I have repeatedly question the same.
> >We have the TeHopAddress and TeHopAddressType TCs, so that 
> we basically
> >have a discriminated union, and so that we do NOT need 
> multiple columns
> >to represent the different types of addressed.
> >
> >You are not telling me that this slipped thorugh my latest review,
> >are you?
> >
> >Bert
> >> > 	--Tom
> >> > 
> >> > >
> >> > >Thanks,
> >> > >Kireeti.
> >> > >
> >> > 
> >> 
> >
> 


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From: "Wijnen, Bert (Bert)" <bwijnen@lucent.com>
To: "Mpls (E-mail)" <mpls@UU.NET>
Subject: FW: draft-ietf-mpls-tc-mib-06a.txt
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:35:27 +0200
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Forwarding to MPLS WG, cause I think these discussion should be
in the OPEN and on the WG list

Thanks,
Bert 

-----Original Message-----
From: Wijnen, Bert (Bert) 
Sent: dinsdag 30 september 2003 16:31
To: 'Joan Cucchiara x302'; 'tnadeau@cisco.com'; 'Kireeti Kompella';
'swallow@cisco.com'; 'loa@pi.se'; Wijnen, Bert (Bert);
'mrm@riverstone.net'; 'zinin@psg.com'; 'adrian@olddog.co.uk'
Cc: arunv@force10networks.com; hans@ipunplugged.com;
jcucchiara@mindspring.com; cheenu@alumni.princeton.edu
Subject: RE: draft-ietf-mpls-tc-mib-06a.txt


Inline

Thanks,
Bert 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joan Cucchiara x302 [mailto:jcucchiara@Artel.com]
> Sent: dinsdag 30 september 2003 15:29
> To: 'tnadeau@cisco.com'; 'Kireeti Kompella'; Joan Cucchiara x302;
> 'swallow@cisco.com'; 'loa@pi.se'; 'bwijnen@lucent.com';
> 'mrm@riverstone.net'; 'zinin@psg.com'; 'adrian@olddog.co.uk'
> Cc: arunv@force10networks.com; hans@ipunplugged.com;
> jcucchiara@mindspring.com; cheenu@alumni.princeton.edu
> Subject: RE: draft-ietf-mpls-tc-mib-06a.txt
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Kireeti,
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Thomas D. Nadeau [mailto:tnadeau@cisco.com]
> > Sent: Monday, September 29, 2003 12:26 PM
> > To: 'Kireeti Kompella'; 'Joan Cucchiara x302'
> > Cc: arunv@force10networks.com; hans@ipunplugged.com;
> > jcucchiara@mindspring.com; cheenu@alumni.princeton.edu
> > Subject: RE: draft-ietf-mpls-tc-mib-06a.txt
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From: Kireeti Kompella [mailto:kireeti@juniper.net] 
> > >Sent: Monday, September 29, 2003 11:46 AM
> > >To: Joan Cucchiara x302
> > >Cc: arun@force10networks.com; cheenu@paramanet.com; 
> > >hans@ipunplugged.com; jcucchiara@mindspring.com; 
> > >tnadeau@cisco.com; Kireeti Kompella
> > >Subject: RE: draft-ietf-mpls-tc-mib-06a.txt
> > >
> > >
> > >Hi Joan et al,
> > >
> > >In a review of the TE MIB, I was asked to explain why hops in general
> > >could include AS numbers.  I think that the best place to explain that
> > >would be in the TC MIB, rather than every place that the Hop TCs are
> > >used.  If you all agree, I will supply text to go in the description.
> 
> Can we check with Bert and Mike on this?  I am not opposed but would
> like to make sure it is okay with Bert and Mike from MIB Dr.
> point of view?
> 
> Am cc'ing the larger group of folks. Hope that is okay!
> 
I am OK and all for better descriptions. So adding text as to why 
AS numbers and unnumbered links is a Good Thing I think.
It will not change semantix, it will only clarify (better explain)
things.

More below

>    thanks, Joan
> 
> 
> > >
> > >BTW, looking at the MPLS TE MIB, I see that I don't understand TCs!
> > >The MplsTunnelHopEntry is:
> > >
> > >MplsTunnelHopEntry ::= SEQUENCE {
> > >      mplsTunnelHopListIndex          MplsPathIndex,
> > >      mplsTunnelHopPathOptionIndex    MplsPathIndex,
> > >      mplsTunnelHopIndex              MplsPathIndex,
> > >      mplsTunnelHopAddrType           TeHopAddressType,
> > >      mplsTunnelHopIpAddr             TeHopAddress,
> > >      mplsTunnelHopIpPrefixLen        InetAddressPrefixLength,
> > >      mplsTunnelHopAsNumber           TeHopAddressAS,
> > >      mplsTunnelHopAddrUnnum          TeHopAddressUnnum,
> > >      mplsTunnelHopLspId              MplsLSPID,
> > >      <etc>
> > >
> > >I was under the impression that one could just have:
> > >MplsTunnelHopEntry ::= SEQUENCE {
> > >      mplsTunnelHopListIndex          MplsPathIndex,
> > >      mplsTunnelHopPathOptionIndex    MplsPathIndex,
> > >      mplsTunnelHopIndex              MplsPathIndex,
> > >      mplsTunnelHopAddrType           TeHopAddressType,
> > >      mplsTunnelHopIpAddr             TeHopAddress,
> > >      <etc>
> > >
> > >as the TeHopAddress TC includes AS and unnum ...  I guess that is
> > >wrong?
> > 
> > 	The AS and UnNum are in separate objects
> > so that they can be represented that way
> > (rather than say an opaque octet string).
> > 
Mmm... I believe I have repeatedly question the same.
We have the TeHopAddress and TeHopAddressType TCs, so that we basically
have a discriminated union, and so that we do NOT need multiple columns
to represent the different types of addressed.

You are not telling me that this slipped thorugh my latest review,
are you?

Bert
> > 	--Tom
> > 
> > >
> > >Thanks,
> > >Kireeti.
> > >
> > 
> 


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From: "Wijnen, Bert (Bert)" <bwijnen@lucent.com>
To: "'tnadeau@cisco.com'" <tnadeau@cisco.com>, "Mpls (E-mail)"
	 <mpls@UU.NET>
Cc: arunv@force10networks.com, hans@ipunplugged.com, jcucchiara@mindspring.com,
        cheenu@alumni.princeton.edu,
        "Wijnen, Bert (Bert)" <bwijnen@lucent.com>,
        "'Joan Cucchiara x302'"
	 <jcucchiara@Artel.com>,
        "'Kireeti Kompella'" <kireeti@juniper.net>, swallow@cisco.com,
        loa@pi.se, mrm@riverstone.net, zinin@psg.com, adrian@olddog.co.uk
Subject: RE: draft-ietf-mpls-tc-mib-06a.txt
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 21:57:34 +0200
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[ added MPLS WG list !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!]

Inline

> >> 	The reason why the multiple fields
> >> were left in place was because someone (Arun
> >> I think) pointed out that you may want to
> >> specify a hop address AND an AS number for
> >> the case where you want to get to a specific
> >> AS *through* a specific HOP.
> >> 
> >
> >a TeHopAddress can contain an AS number.
> >So if you have a separate field for AS number what would then
> >be in the TeHopAddress??? And why would you need two addesses
> >to get to one place? SOrry I am confused here
> 
> 	Because a hop can be identified by BOTH an
> AS number and an IP address. Suppose you want to
> choose an AS via a particular interface on an
> LSR?
> 
And an IP address on another interface?
Maybe that would mean two entries in the table??

Bert
> 	--Tom


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Reply-To: <tnadeau@cisco.com>
From: "Thomas D. Nadeau" <tnadeau@cisco.com>
To: "'Wijnen, Bert \(Bert\)'" <bwijnen@lucent.com>,
        "'Mpls \(E-mail\)'" <mpls@UU.NET>
Cc: <arunv@force10networks.com>, <hans@ipunplugged.com>,
        <jcucchiara@mindspring.com>, <cheenu@alumni.princeton.edu>,
        "'Joan Cucchiara x302'" <jcucchiara@Artel.com>,
        "'Kireeti Kompella'" <kireeti@juniper.net>, <swallow@cisco.com>,
        <loa@pi.se>, <mrm@riverstone.net>, <zinin@psg.com>,
        <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
Subject: RE: draft-ietf-mpls-tc-mib-06a.txt
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 21:46:43 -0400
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>-----Original Message-----
>From: Wijnen, Bert (Bert) [mailto:bwijnen@lucent.com] 
>Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2003 3:58 PM
>To: 'tnadeau@cisco.com'; Mpls (E-mail)
>Cc: arunv@force10networks.com; hans@ipunplugged.com; 
>jcucchiara@mindspring.com; cheenu@alumni.princeton.edu; 
>Wijnen, Bert (Bert); 'Joan Cucchiara x302'; 'Kireeti 
>Kompella'; swallow@cisco.com; loa@pi.se; mrm@riverstone.net; 
>zinin@psg.com; adrian@olddog.co.uk
>Subject: RE: draft-ietf-mpls-tc-mib-06a.txt
>
>
>[ added MPLS WG list !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!]
>
>Inline
>
>> >> 	The reason why the multiple fields
>> >> were left in place was because someone (Arun
>> >> I think) pointed out that you may want to
>> >> specify a hop address AND an AS number for
>> >> the case where you want to get to a specific
>> >> AS *through* a specific HOP.
>> >> 
>> >
>> >a TeHopAddress can contain an AS number.
>> >So if you have a separate field for AS number what would then
>> >be in the TeHopAddress??? And why would you need two addesses
>> >to get to one place? SOrry I am confused here
>> 
>> 	Because a hop can be identified by BOTH an
>> AS number and an IP address. Suppose you want to
>> choose an AS via a particular interface on an
>> LSR?
>> 
>And an IP address on another interface?
>Maybe that would mean two entries in the table??

	Perhaps, but the example that was given
for needing both was the one I gave above. No
one has asked for what you suppose above.

	--Tom



>
>Bert
>> 	--Tom
>