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Message-ID: <001301c6fe1e$2fe6b2c0$55b20858@Puesto1>
From:	"shallow hunks" <wizyqatko@rima-tde.net>
To: mpls-archive@lists.ietf.org
Subject: Hanging Gerrit Bart Volgers
Date:	Thu, 2 Nov 2006 02:28:23 +0100
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------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C6FE26.91AB1AC0--




From gfdcd@carolina-swingers.com Thu Nov 02 04:57:07 2006
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Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2006 09:57:04 -0060
From: "Rick Hatfield" <gfdcd@carolina-swingers.com>
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rains; and the sidewalks were of red brick, and always damp and cool. Inplace for a boy to live. It contained mostly small two and three-story

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===================================

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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

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????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

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dis.claimer


All material herein was prepared based upon information believed to
be reliable. The information contained herein is not guaranteed to
be accurate, and should not be considered to be all-inclusive. The
company that is discussed in this opinion have not approved the
statements made in this opinion. This opinion contains forward-
looking statements that involve risks and uncertainties. This
material is for informational purposes only and should not be
construed as an offer or solicitation of an offer to buy or sell
securities. We are not a licensed broker, broker dealer, market
maker, investment banker, investment advisor, analyst or
underwriter. Please consult a broker before purchasing or selling
any securities viewed or mentioned herein. We are expecting to
receive cash no amount has been decided on..We will report on
compensation as soon as we finalize the price. These stocks are
highly violatile, and you can lose all your money. They can trade
very high and very low in minutes; we suggest if you are not a
savvy investor you sit back and watch.


pavement was of big, round cobblestones, made bright and clean by thethey could not enter into the natural tendency to be happy and joyousall the money they received. His father, pleased at his interest, wasdid; what stocks were, and why they fluctuated in value. He began toa child every two or three years after Frank's birth until there wereof life are to a poet. This medium of exchange, gold, interested himresponsible, and gradually he was becoming quite a personage. He alreadythat he owned a gold mine and waked to wish that he did. He was likewise




From mpls-bounces@lists.ietf.org Thu Nov 02 08:30:21 2006
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Hi Lee

Sorry for this late answer.
Thanks for your comments, please see inline,=20

> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) [mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com]=20
> Envoy=E9 : dimanche 22 octobre 2006 08:37
> =C0 : zzx-adrian@olddog.co.uk; isis-wg@ietf.org; ospf@ietf.org;=20
> mpls@lists.ietf.org
> Cc : routing-discussion@ietf.org
> Objet : [mpls] RE: [Isis-wg] CCAMP Working group last=20
> callondraft-ietf-ccamp-te-node-cap-02.txt=20
>=20
> In regards to the IS-IS definitions, there is (again - sorry=20
> JP...) confusion in the use of the terms TLV and subTLV.
>=20
> For example, in Section 2 it states:
>=20
> <snip>
> A new TLV is defined for ISIS and OSPF: the TE Node Capability=20
>    Descriptor TLV, to be carried within:=20
>         - The ISIS Capability TLV ([ISIS-CAP]) for ISIS...
> <end snip>
>=20
> If the information is carried within another TLV, then it is=20
> clearly subTLV information - the difference between the two=20
> is more than terminology since it impacts both the encoding=20
> and the scope of the identifiers which are assigned.
>=20
> Section 4.2 then goes on to discuss:
>=20
> "The format of the IS-IS TE Node Capability TLV" - which is,=20
> as pointed out above, actually a subTLV.
>=20
> And then goes on to define "subsubTLVs" (which are=20
> incorrectly called subTLVs).
>=20
> As "subsubTLVs" are new to IS-IS encoding some discussion of=20
> this added level of hierarchy is required. However, I think=20
> it might also be fair to entertain the possibility that the=20
> "TE Node Capability subTLV" be deleted and the "subsubTLVs"=20
> defined in the subsections of 4.2 be defined more directly as=20
> subTLVs of the IS-IS CAPs TLV. This is possible because as=20
> currently defined, the "TE Node Capability subTLV" has no=20
> information at the subTLV level - it is simply a container=20
> for the subsubTLV information. This would allow for a more=20
> efficient encoding without any loss of functionality.

Thanks for pointing this out, we are going to delete the TE Node Cap =
level and define the Control Plane Cap and Data plane Cap as sub-TLVs of =
the ISIS Capability TLV.


>=20
> Whatever the resolution, all the text relating to this must=20
> be reworded to be consistent and accurate.

OK will be done

>=20
> I would also prefer that the wording of the following=20
> sentence in Section 5.2:
>=20
> "An empty TE Node Capability Descriptor MUST be discarded."
>=20
> be changed to
>=20
> "An empty TE Node Capability Descriptor MUST be ignored."
>=20
> The term "discard" suggests that a router which leaks a CAP=20
> TLV containing TE node capability information might be=20
> required to modify the contents of that TLV - which is=20
> something to be avoided.

OK, the text will be updated as per your proposal.

Thanks,

JL

>=20
>    Les
>=20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Adrian Farrel [mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk]
> > Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 5:22 AM
> > To: isis-wg@ietf.org; ospf@ietf.org; mpls@lists.ietf.org
> > Cc: Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS; routing-discussion@ietf.org
> > Subject: [Isis-wg] CCAMP Working group last call
> ondraft-ietf-ccamp-te-
> > node-cap-02.txt
> >=20
> > Heads up.
> >=20
> > The CCAMP working group is holding a working group last=20
> call on this=20
> > draft.
> >=20
> > Your input is invited.
> >=20
> > Please send comments direct to the CCAMP mailing list or to the WG
> chairs
> > (Deborah and/or me) if you are not subscribed to CCAMP.
> >=20
> > Thanks,
> > Adrian
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
> > To: <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 1:34 AM
> > Subject: Working group last call on
> draft-ietf-ccamp-te-node-cap-02.txt
> >=20
> >=20
> > > This starts a two week working group last on
> > >
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ccamp-te-node-c
ap-02.txt
> > >
> > > Please send your comments to the CCAMP mailing list by 12 midnight
> UK
> > time
> > > on Monday 30th October
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Adrian and Deborah
> >=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > _______________________________________________
> > Isis-wg mailing list
> > Isis-wg@ietf.org
> > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/isis-wg
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@lists.ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>=20

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From Lopezave@royalroses.nl Thu Nov 02 12:43:36 2006
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	for mpls-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 02 Nov 2006 12:48:54 -0500
Message-ID: <001301c6fea7$24cf0b60$61f5cb56@tatealvvujn5oq>
From:	"greatest stuff." <ntletxqac@wanadoo.fr>
To: mpls-archive@lists.ietf.org
Subject: Using
Date:	Thu, 2 Nov 2006 18:48:45 +0100
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authorback cover blurbsbuy it online and this?
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Subject: [mpls] Comments on draft-leroux-mpls-p2mp-te-bypass-00.txt
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Hi,

First of all, my full support to the ID, this is for sure a needed =20
solution in several cases.

Here are my comments/suggestions:
1) To be discussed next week (live will be easier): it might be =20
useful in some cases to tradeoff the rerouting times for the P2MP =20
backup efficiency, provided that the failure detection times stays =20
bounded of course and on the order of a few ms. Note that in =20
situations where P2MP backup may be useful, it may make sense to have =20=

the PLR not immediately upstream to the protected element. We can use =20=

an distributed bidding mechanism to determine the PLR based on the =20
P2MP backup cost and the distance between the PLR and the protected =20
element.
2) In the introduction, don't you want to indicate that the use of =20
bypass P2MP tunnels may lead to more states compared to the P2P case =20
because of the requirement to fully intersect the protected primary ?
3) Trade-off between a set of P2P, one P2MP bypass tunnels and a set =20
of P2MP bypass tunnels. There are cases where it might be preferable =20
to use a set of P2P because of the number of states if the PLR has to =20=

protect a large number of primary P2MP tunnels and the PLR cannot =20
find a good overlapping bypass P2MP. An alternative is also to use a =20
"few" P2MP bypass tunnels in that case: the PLR would have to do some =20=

replication but still much less than with P2P bypass tunnels.
3) It would be useful to indicate that a P2MP TE LSP may be protected =20=

by some PLRs using P2P and by other PLRs using P2MP bypass tunnel =20
along the protected P2MP primary path (thus comment 5)).
5) It might be useful to define:
* a flag in the LSP-ATTRIBUTE to indicate at each PLR whether the =20
primary P2MP TE LSP is protected by a set of P2P bypass tunnels or =20
one P2MP bypass tunnel
* a flag in the LSP-ATTRIBUTE to report "Partial" protection of the =20
primary P2MP TE LSP, by partial I'm referring to the ability to only =20
find a P2MP backup that does not fully intersect the primary TE LSP. =20
Or is partial protection simply not supported?

Comment in line (Search for JP>)

Network Working Group                                       J.L. Le Roux
Internet Draft                                            France Telecom
Category: Standard Track
Expires: February 2007                                       R. Aggarwal
                                                         Juniper =20
Networks



                                                              August =20
2006
             P2MP MPLS-TE Fast Reroute with P2MP Bypass Tunnels
                  draft-leroux-mpls-p2mp-te-bypass-00.txt
Status of this Memo
    By submitting this Internet-Draft, each author represents that any
    applicable patent or other IPR claims of which he or she is aware
    have been or will be disclosed, and any of which he or she becomes
    aware will be disclosed, in accordance with Section 6 of BCP 79.

    Internet-Drafts are working documents of the Internet Engineering
    Task Force (IETF), its areas, and its working groups. Note that =20
other
    groups may also distribute working documents as Internet-Drafts.

    Internet-Drafts are draft documents valid for a maximum of six =20
months
    and may be updated, replaced, or obsoleted by other documents at any
    time. It is inappropriate to use Internet- Drafts as reference
    material or to cite them other than as "work in progress."

    The list of current Internet-Drafts can be accessed at
    http://www.ietf.org/ietf/1id-abstracts.txt.

    The list of Internet-Draft Shadow Directories can be accessed at
    http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html.

Abstract

    This document defines procedures for fast reroute protection of
    point-to-multipoint (P2MP) MPLS-TE LSPs, with point-to-multipoint
    bypass tunnels. During branch node failure the traffic on a =20
protected
    P2MP TE-LSP is tunneled within a P2MP bypass tunnel towards the set
    of Merge Points. To avoid data duplication, the backup label is
    assigned by the PLR following the RSVP-TE upstream label assignment
    procedure.
Le Roux, Aggarwal   Fast Reroute with P2MP Bypass Tunnels      [Page 1]
   =0C
Internet Draft  draft-leroux-mpls-p2mp-te-bypass-00.txt    August 2006


Conventions used in this document
    The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT",
    "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED",  "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in =20
this
    document are to be interpreted as described in RFC-2119.
Table of Contents

    1.      =20
Terminology.................................................2
    2.      =20
Introduction................................................3
    3.      Solution =20
overview...........................................3
    4.      PLR =20
procedures..............................................4
    4.1.    Before =20
failure..............................................4
    4.2.    During =20
failure..............................................5
    5.      MP =20
Procedures...............................................5
    6.      Backward =20
compatibility......................................6
    7.      Security =20
Considerations.....................................6
    8.      =20
References..................................................6
    8.1.    Normative =20
references........................................6
    9.      Authors' =20
Addresses:.........................................7
    10.     Intellectual Property =20
Statement.............................7


1.  Terminology
    This document uses terminologies defined in [RFC3031], [RFC3209],
    [RFC4090] and [RFC4461]. It defines the following new terms:
    P2MP Bypass tunnel: Point-to-Multipoint Bypass Tunnel.  A P2MP TE-
         LSP that is used to protect a set of P2MP TE-LSPs traversing a
         common node. The Ingress LSR of a P2MP bypass tunnel is the PLR
         and the leaf LSRs are a set of LSRs, on the protected P2MP LSP,
         downstream of the protected node.

    P2MP Facility Backup: A local repair method in which a P2MP bypass
         tunnel is used to protect one or more P2MP TE-LSPs that
         traverse the PLR (P2MP Bypass Ingress), the resource being
         protected, and the set of Merge Points (P2MP Bypass leaves)
         downstream to the protected resource.
    Backup P2MP LSP: The LSP that is used to backup up one of the
        many protected P2MP LSPs in P2MP Facility Backup.

    Backup S2L sub-LSP: A S2L sub-LSP of a backup P2MP LSP.


                         .
Le Roux, Aggarwal                                             [Page 2]
   =0C
Internet Draft  draft-leroux-mpls-p2mp-te-bypass-00.txt    August 2006

JP> It might be useful to define the notion of overlapping P2MP =20
Bypass tunnel
where's all the leaf LSRs of the bypass tunnel intersect the =20
protected primary
P2MP tunnel.

2. Introduction

    [RFC4090] defines fast reroute extensions to RSVP-TE for local
    protection of P2P MPLS TE LSPs. Two techniques are defined: the one-
    to-one backup method, which creates a detour LSP for each protected
    LSP at each PLR, and the facility backup method, which creates a
    bypass tunnel that can be used to protect a set of LSPs by taking
    advantage of MPLS label stacking.

    [RSVP-P2MP] defines extensions to RSVP-TE for setting up P2MP TE-
    LSPs. It specifies extensions to one-to-one and facility backup Fast
    Reroute procedures defined in [RFC4090] so as to support fast =20
reroute
    protection of P2MP LSPs.
    The facility backup solution defined in [RSVP-P2MP] only relies on
    P2P bypass tunnels for link and node protection. This faces the
    following limitation: The protection of a P2MP LSP against node
    failures requires, when the protected node is a Branch LSR, a set of
    P2P Next Next Hop (NNHOP) Bypass tunnels towards all LSRs downstream
    to the protected node. During failure the PLR has to replicate
    traffic on each P2P NNHOP bypass tunnel, and this may lead to
    significant inefficient bandwidth usage.
    To overcome this limitation it is highly desired to define =20
extensions
    to the fast reroute facility backup solution, so as to support P2MP
    Bypass tunnels.

JP> See my previous comments regarding the trade-off between number =20
of states and
backup tunnel efficiency.

    This draft specifies extensions to the Fast Reroute procedures
    defined in [RFC4090] and [RSVP-P2MP] to support P2MP TE-LSP node
    protection with P2MP bypass tunnels.
    Procedures defined in [RFC4090] and [RSVP-P2MP] MUST be followed
    unless specified below.

3. Solution overview

    The P2MP Facility Backup method defined in this document relies on
    the use of P2MP bypass tunnels. A P2MP bypass tunnel can be used to
    protect a set of P2MP TE-LSPs by taking advantage of MPLS label
    stacking.
    A P2MP Bypass tunnel is used to protect a P2MP TE-LSP against branch
    LSR failures. The bypass tunnel head-end is the PLR, and the bypass
    tunnel leaf LSRs are the set of MPs, that is the set of LSRs
    downstream to the protected branch node, on the protected P2MP TE-=20=

LSP.
    The P2MP bypass tunnel protects the set of S2L sub-LSPs that transit
    the protected node.

    When P2MP facility backup method is used, during failure the PLR =20
MUST
    send data for each protected P2MP LSP into the P2MP bypass tunnel.
    Label stacking is used: The inner label is the backup label for the
    backup P2MP LSP, that will be used on the MP to forward traffic to

Le Roux, Aggarwal                                             [Page 3]
   =0C
Internet Draft  draft-leroux-mpls-p2mp-te-bypass-00.txt    August 2006


    the corresponding protected P2MP LSP, and the outer label is the =20
P2MP
    bypass tunnel label.
    To avoid data replication on the PLR, the same backup label MUST be
    used for all S2L sub-LSPs towards all MPs of a given backup P2MP =20
LSP.
    This backup label will indicate to the MPs that packets received =20
with
    that label should be switched along the protected P2MP LSP.
    For that purpose upstream label assignment procedures defined in
    [MPLS-UPSTREAM] and RSVP-TE extensions for upstream label assignment
    defined in [RSVP-UP] MUST be used. To signal a backup P2MP LSP, the
    same backup label, is distributed by the PLR to the set of MPs, in
    the context of the P2MP bypass tunnel. This requires the backup P2MP
    LSP to be signalled prior to the failure.

JP> Which is required anyway to guarantee fast rerouting and always =20
the case for Protection recovery
(by contrast with recovery)

    On the MP, backup S2L sub-LSPs (i.e. S2L sub-LSPs of the backup P2MP
    LSP) are merged with protected S2L sub-LSPs. The MPs, (i.e. the
    bypass tunnel leaf LSRs), maintain a context specific ILM

JP> Spell ?

    for the
    P2MP Bypass tunnel. The context of an inner label (i.e a backup =20
label)
    is determined by the underlying P2MP bypass tunnel on which it is
    received. This requires deactivating PHP on the P2MP bypass =20
tunnel. A
    label, in a given Bypass tunnel specific ILM, is mapped to the
    outgoing interfaces and labels of the corresponding protected P2MP
    LSP.
4. PLR procedures
4.1. Before failure
    To protect a P2MP LSP against a branch node failure, a PLR MUST

JP> The MUST is what I propose to change (see comments above) =20
depending on the path
quality for the P2MP bypass, number of states, ... compared to using =20
P2P bypass.

    select a P2MP bypass tunnel with a set of leaf LSRs with the
    following properties:
         - These leaf LSRs are transit or egress LSRs on the protected
           P2MP LSP. We will denote this subset as {LSR1.LSRn}.
         - {LSR1.LSRn} are downstream of the protected node on the
            Protected P2MP LSP.
         - In the event of failure of the protected node, traffic
           received on the protected P2MP LSP by the PLR, can be
           delivered to all the leaves of the protected P2MP LSP
           downstream to the failed node, if it is tunnelled to
           {LSR1.LSRn} over the P2MP bypass.

JP> This is where we could discuss using one or more P2MP bypass (if =20
non overlapping)

    PHP MUST be deactivated on the P2MP Bypass tunnel, in order to allow
    MPs to determine the context for the backup labels assigned by the
    PLR.
    The backup label (i.e. the inner label) used for every backup S2L
    sub-LSPs, (i.e. the inner label within the P2MP bypass tunnel), of a
    given backup P2MP LSP MUST be the same, so as to avoid traffic
    replication on the PLR. This label MUST be assigned by the PLR using
    upstream label assignment procedures.


Le Roux, Aggarwal                                             [Page 4]
   =0C
Internet Draft  draft-leroux-mpls-p2mp-te-bypass-00.txt    August 2006


    Backup P2MP LSPs MUST be signaled prior to the failure.
    To signal the backup P2MP LSP, the PLR MUST send one or more Path
    messages to each MP. The Path messages to signal a backup P2MP LSP
    are sent to the MPs using directed signaling; they are addressed to
    the MPs, without Router Alert option.
    The PLR MUST use the sender template specific method to identify a
    Path message for a backup P2MP LSPs. Hence the PLR will set the
    source address in the sender template to a local PLR address.
    A Path message to a given MP comprises one or more backup S2L sub-
    LSPs that transit through this MP.

    The backup label MUST be assigned by the PLR, in the context of the
    underlying P2MP Bypass tunnel, following upstream label assignment
    and P2MP RSVP-TE context identification procedures defined in [RSVP-
    UP]. Hence, a Path message sent to a MP for a backup P2MP LSP MUST
    include an Upstream Assigned Label object carrying the value of the
    backup label. It MUST also include an RSVP-TE P2MP LSP TLV within an
    IF_ID RSVP TLV, that carries the session object of the underlying
    P2MP Bypass tunnel. This allows MPs to identify the label space of
    the backup label assigned by the PLR. The same backup label MUST be
    sent to all MPs of a protected P2MP LSP.

    Note that the PLR MUST continue to refresh Path messages for the
    protected P2MP LSP along the nominal route.
    The processing of backup S2L sub-LSP SEROs/SRROs MUST follow
    backup LSP ERO/RRO processing described in [RFC4090].

4.2. During failure

    When the PLR detects a link or/and node failure condition, it has to
    reroute a protected P2MP LSP onto the P2MP bypass tunnel using as
    inner label the backup label assigned for this P2MP LSP.
    The PLR MUST continue to send Path messages for the backup P2MP LSP.

JP> Need to discuss the replication of Path messages by the branch =20
node along the backup P2P LSP

    The RRO/ERO flags MUST be updated as per defined in [RFC4090]
5. MP Procedures
    A MP receives one or more Path messages for the protected P2MP LSP
    and one or more Path messages for the backup P2MP LSP.

    Note that, as specified in [RFC4090], the reception of a backup =20
LSP's
    Path message does not indicate that a failure has occurred or that
    the incoming protected LSP will no longer be used.

    A S2L sub-LSP is received

JP> "Received" confusing terminology

within a Path message for the protected
    P2MP LSP and within a Path message for the backup P2MP LSP. These =20=

two
    Path messages are distinguished thanks to the sender-template
    specific method. As specified in [RFC4090], each of these Path
    messages will have a different SENDER_TEMPLATE.  The protected LSP
    can be recognized because it will include the FAST_REROUTE object or

Le Roux, Aggarwal                                             [Page 5]
   =0C
Internet Draft  draft-leroux-mpls-p2mp-te-bypass-00.txt    August 2006


    have the "local protection desired" flag set in the =20
SESSION_ATTRIBUTE
    object, or both.
    A MP MUST install the upstream assigned label received in a backup
    LSP Path message, within an ILM specific to the underlying bypass
    tunnel, which is identified by its session object, carried within =20=

the
    IF_ID RSVP_HOP object of the backup Path message. An upstream
    assigned label for a backup P2MP LSP MUST be mapped to the outgoing
    interfaces and labels of the corresponding protected P2MP LSP.

    As specified in [RSVP-UP], the Resv message sent by a MP to the PLR,
    does not carry any Label Object.
    The processing of backup S2L sub-LSP SEROs/SRROs MUST follow
    backup tunnel ERO/RRO processing described in [RFC4090].
6. Backward compatibility

    Procedures with MPs that do not support upstream label assignment =20=

are
    to be defined (combination of P2P and P2MP bypass LSPs).
7. Security Considerations

    No new security issues are raised in this document.
8. References

8.1. Normative references

    [RFC2119] Bradner, S., "Key words for use in RFCs to Indicate
    Requirement Levels", BCP 14, RFC 2119, March 1997.
    [RFC3031] E. Rosen, A. Viswanathan, R. Callon, "MPLS Architecture",
    RFC 3031.

    [RFC3209] D. Awduche et al., "RSVP-TE: Extensions to RSVP for LSP
    Tunnels", RFC3209.
    [RFC4461] S. Yasukawa et al., "Signaling Requirements for Point-to-
    Multipoint Traffic-Engineered MPLS Label Switched Paths (LSPs)",
    RFC4461.
    [RFC4090] Pan, Swallow, Atlas, et al., "Fast Reroute Extensions to
    RSVP-TE for LSP Tunnels", RFC4090.

    [RSVP-P2MP] Aggarwal, Papadimitriou, Yasukawa, "Extensions to =20
RSVP-TE
    for Point to Multipoint TE LSPs", draft-ietf-mpls-p2mp-rsvp-te, work
    in progress.

    [MPLS-UPSTREAM] Aggarwal, Rekhter, Rosen, "MPLS Upstream Label
    Assignment and Context Specific Label Space", draft-ietf-mpls-
    upstream-label, work in progress.
Le Roux, Aggarwal                                             [Page 6]
   =0C
Internet Draft  draft-leroux-mpls-p2mp-te-bypass-00.txt    August 2006


    [RSVP-UP] Aggarwal, Le Roux, " MPLS Upstream Label Assignment for
    RSVP-TE", draft-ietf-mpls-rsvp-upstream, work in progress.
9. Authors' Addresses:

    Jean-Louis Le Roux
    France Telecom
    2, avenue Pierre-Marzin
    22307 Lannion Cedex
    FRANCE
    Email: jeanlouis.leroux@francetelecom.com

    Rahul Aggarwal
    Juniper Networks
    1194 North Mathilda Ave.
    Sunnyvale, CA 94089
    Email: rahul@juniper.net
10. Intellectual Property Statement
    The IETF takes no position regarding the validity or scope of any
    Intellectual Property Rights or other rights that might be =20
claimed to
    pertain to the implementation or use of the technology described in
    this document or the extent to which any license under such rights
    might or might not be available; nor does it represent that it has
    made any independent effort to identify any such rights.  =20
Information
    on the procedures with respect to rights in RFC documents can be
    found in BCP 78 and BCP 79.

    Copies of IPR disclosures made to the IETF Secretariat and any
    assurances of licenses to be made available, or the result of an
    attempt made to obtain a general license or permission for the =20
use of
    such proprietary rights by implementers or users of this
    specification can be obtained from the IETF on-line IPR =20
repository at
    http://www.ietf.org/ipr.

    The IETF invites any interested party to bring to its attention any
    copyrights, patents or patent applications, or other proprietary
    rights that may cover technology that may be required to implement
    this standard.  Please address the information to the IETF at
    ietf-ipr@ietf.org.

    Disclaimer of Validity

    This document and the information contained herein are provided =20
on an
    "AS IS" basis and THE CONTRIBUTOR, THE ORGANIZATION HE/SHE =20
REPRESENTS
    OR IS SPONSORED BY (IF ANY), THE INTERNET SOCIETY AND THE INTERNET
    ENGINEERING TASK FORCE DISCLAIM ALL WARRANTIES, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED,
    INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO ANY WARRANTY THAT THE USE OF THE
    INFORMATION HEREIN WILL NOT INFRINGE ANY RIGHTS OR ANY IMPLIED
Le Roux, Aggarwal                                             [Page 7]
   =0C
Internet Draft  draft-leroux-mpls-p2mp-te-bypass-00.txt    August 2006


    WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY OR FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.

    Copyright Statement

    Copyright (C) The Internet Society (2006).  This document is subject
    to the rights, licenses and restrictions contained in BCP 78, and
    except as set forth therein, the authors retain all their rights.










































Le Roux, Aggarwal                                             [Page 8]
   =0C

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------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C6FFA2.CF37E710--




From mpls-bounces@lists.ietf.org Fri Nov 03 13:10:45 2006
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From: "Nitin Bahadur" <nitinb@juniper.net>
To: "Asaf Henig" <ahenig@mrv.com>,
	<mpls@lists.ietf.org>,
	<mpls@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [mpls] Two Questions about LSP-ping/traceroute (RFC 4379)
Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2006 10:06:42 -0800
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> -----Original Message-----
> 1) How should LSP-ping deal with PHP mode (penultimate-hop-popping) ?
>
> Suppose I am sending an mpls echo request packet to check a
> regular lsp and the packet is sent with the proper label X
> (shimmed between L2 and L3) and a FEC Stack TLV which includes a
> LDP-IpV4 sub-tlv.
> This packet may reach its destination, some egress LER Y, without
> any shimmed label due to the use of
> PHP mode. Section 4.2 in RFC 4379 suggest that we use Nil-FEC
> sub-TLV to account for the missing Label that was popped. The
> question is which LSR insert this Nil-FEC. Note that the LER that
> initiated the echo-request doesn't know in advance if the label
> is going to be popped at the penultimate LSR. Moreover the
> penultimate LSR it self cannot add this FEC since it has no
> trigger to process the packet as he recieves a regular labeled
> packet and simply performs a popping and forwarding procedures. ?
> It is furthermore unclear wether in this case we should also use
> Explicite Null label (label 0) or not?.
>

The ingress LSR that initiates the request should add the NIL-FEC in
addition
to the FEC being tested. One can associate the EXPLICIT-NULL label with the
NIL FEC. That wat the ingress LSR does not need to know if the PHP will be
used
or not. If PHP is used, egress will receive the packet with EXPLICIT-NULL
label.
If PHP is not-used, egress will receive the packet with 2+ labels. In both
cases,
egress should do the right thing by popping 2 labels and recognizing that it
is
the egress for the LSP.

IMHO no additional FECs should be added by the penultimate LSR during
switching.

Section 3.2.15 (NIL-FEC) talks about using reserved label-space for labels
associated
with NIL-FEC. As long as the egress LSR does the *right thing* when it
encounters reserved
labels, things should work. Using EXPLICIT-NULL label I guess makes sure
that things will
work...since vendors probably handle that correctly.


Nitin
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.27/517 - Release Date: 11/3/2006

_______________________________________________
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https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls



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To: "Asaf Henig" <ahenig@mrv.com>,
	<mpls@lists.ietf.org>,
	<mpls@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [mpls] Two Questions about LSP-ping/traceroute (RFC 4379)
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> -----Original Message-----
> 1) How should LSP-ping deal with PHP mode (penultimate-hop-popping) ?
>
> Suppose I am sending an mpls echo request packet to check a
> regular lsp and the packet is sent with the proper label X
> (shimmed between L2 and L3) and a FEC Stack TLV which includes a
> LDP-IpV4 sub-tlv.
> This packet may reach its destination, some egress LER Y, without
> any shimmed label due to the use of
> PHP mode. Section 4.2 in RFC 4379 suggest that we use Nil-FEC
> sub-TLV to account for the missing Label that was popped. The
> question is which LSR insert this Nil-FEC. Note that the LER that
> initiated the echo-request doesn't know in advance if the label
> is going to be popped at the penultimate LSR. Moreover the
> penultimate LSR it self cannot add this FEC since it has no
> trigger to process the packet as he recieves a regular labeled
> packet and simply performs a popping and forwarding procedures. ?
> It is furthermore unclear wether in this case we should also use
> Explicite Null label (label 0) or not?.
>

The ingress LSR that initiates the request should add the NIL-FEC in
addition
to the FEC being tested. One can associate the EXPLICIT-NULL label with the
NIL FEC. That wat the ingress LSR does not need to know if the PHP will be
used
or not. If PHP is used, egress will receive the packet with EXPLICIT-NULL
label.
If PHP is not-used, egress will receive the packet with 2+ labels. In both
cases,
egress should do the right thing by popping 2 labels and recognizing that it
is
the egress for the LSP.

IMHO no additional FECs should be added by the penultimate LSR during
switching.

Section 3.2.15 (NIL-FEC) talks about using reserved label-space for labels
associated
with NIL-FEC. As long as the egress LSR does the *right thing* when it
encounters reserved
labels, things should work. Using EXPLICIT-NULL label I guess makes sure
that things will
work...since vendors probably handle that correctly.


Nitin
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.27/517 - Release Date: 11/3/2006

_______________________________________________
mpls mailing list
mpls@lists.ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls

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From: "Nitin Bahadur" <nitinb@juniper.net>
To: "Asaf Henig" <ahenig@mrv.com>,
	<mpls@lists.ietf.org>,
	<mpls@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [mpls] Two Questions about LSP-ping/traceroute (RFC 4379)
Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2006 10:06:42 -0800
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> -----Original Message-----
> 1) How should LSP-ping deal with PHP mode (penultimate-hop-popping) ?
>
> Suppose I am sending an mpls echo request packet to check a
> regular lsp and the packet is sent with the proper label X
> (shimmed between L2 and L3) and a FEC Stack TLV which includes a
> LDP-IpV4 sub-tlv.
> This packet may reach its destination, some egress LER Y, without
> any shimmed label due to the use of
> PHP mode. Section 4.2 in RFC 4379 suggest that we use Nil-FEC
> sub-TLV to account for the missing Label that was popped. The
> question is which LSR insert this Nil-FEC. Note that the LER that
> initiated the echo-request doesn't know in advance if the label
> is going to be popped at the penultimate LSR. Moreover the
> penultimate LSR it self cannot add this FEC since it has no
> trigger to process the packet as he recieves a regular labeled
> packet and simply performs a popping and forwarding procedures. ?
> It is furthermore unclear wether in this case we should also use
> Explicite Null label (label 0) or not?.
>

The ingress LSR that initiates the request should add the NIL-FEC in
addition
to the FEC being tested. One can associate the EXPLICIT-NULL label with the
NIL FEC. That wat the ingress LSR does not need to know if the PHP will be
used
or not. If PHP is used, egress will receive the packet with EXPLICIT-NULL
label.
If PHP is not-used, egress will receive the packet with 2+ labels. In both
cases,
egress should do the right thing by popping 2 labels and recognizing that it
is
the egress for the LSP.

IMHO no additional FECs should be added by the penultimate LSR during
switching.

Section 3.2.15 (NIL-FEC) talks about using reserved label-space for labels
associated
with NIL-FEC. As long as the egress LSR does the *right thing* when it
encounters reserved
labels, things should work. Using EXPLICIT-NULL label I guess makes sure
that things will
work...since vendors probably handle that correctly.


Nitin
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.27/517 - Release Date: 11/3/2006

_______________________________________________
mpls mailing list
mpls@lists.ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls



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From: "Nitin Bahadur" <nitinb@juniper.net>
To: "Asaf Henig" <ahenig@mrv.com>,
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Subject: RE: [mpls] Two Questions about LSP-ping/traceroute (RFC 4379)
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> -----Original Message-----
> 1) How should LSP-ping deal with PHP mode (penultimate-hop-popping) ?
>
> Suppose I am sending an mpls echo request packet to check a
> regular lsp and the packet is sent with the proper label X
> (shimmed between L2 and L3) and a FEC Stack TLV which includes a
> LDP-IpV4 sub-tlv.
> This packet may reach its destination, some egress LER Y, without
> any shimmed label due to the use of
> PHP mode. Section 4.2 in RFC 4379 suggest that we use Nil-FEC
> sub-TLV to account for the missing Label that was popped. The
> question is which LSR insert this Nil-FEC. Note that the LER that
> initiated the echo-request doesn't know in advance if the label
> is going to be popped at the penultimate LSR. Moreover the
> penultimate LSR it self cannot add this FEC since it has no
> trigger to process the packet as he recieves a regular labeled
> packet and simply performs a popping and forwarding procedures. ?
> It is furthermore unclear wether in this case we should also use
> Explicite Null label (label 0) or not?.
>

The ingress LSR that initiates the request should add the NIL-FEC in
addition
to the FEC being tested. One can associate the EXPLICIT-NULL label with the
NIL FEC. That wat the ingress LSR does not need to know if the PHP will be
used
or not. If PHP is used, egress will receive the packet with EXPLICIT-NULL
label.
If PHP is not-used, egress will receive the packet with 2+ labels. In both
cases,
egress should do the right thing by popping 2 labels and recognizing that it
is
the egress for the LSP.

IMHO no additional FECs should be added by the penultimate LSR during
switching.

Section 3.2.15 (NIL-FEC) talks about using reserved label-space for labels
associated
with NIL-FEC. As long as the egress LSR does the *right thing* when it
encounters reserved
labels, things should work. Using EXPLICIT-NULL label I guess makes sure
that things will
work...since vendors probably handle that correctly.


Nitin
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From akstcbairdholmmnsdgs@bairdholm.com Mon Nov 06 05:50:43 2006
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From: "Robt Rudolph" <akstcbairdholmmnsdgs@bairdholm.com>
To: <mpls-archive@lists.ietf.org>
Subject: Howdy
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2006 10:50:39 -0060
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"no, that i am sure i shall not; and i think it is very impertinent of=20=
him to write to you at all, anddo, that the woman who married him cannot=20=
have a proper way of thinking. you shall not defend her,"no more have=20=
i," said mr. bennet; "and i am glad to find that you do not depend on=20=
her servingcollinses, the report, she concluded, had reached lady=20=
catherine), had only set that down as almost"what is it you mean?"am=20=
certain, from something she said herself; and yet it would seem, by her=20=
manner of talking, as if she"well, well, and so mr. bingley is coming=20=
down, sister," (for mrs. phillips first brought her the"you conjecture=20=
is totally wrong, i assure you. my mind was more agreeably engaged. i=20=
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future property. the dinner too in its"she will drop the acquaintance=20=
entirely.""indeed, i could not. i was uncomfortable enough, i may say=20=
unhappy. and with no one to speakdeference for his opinion.as no=20=
objection was made to the young people's engagement with their aunt, and=20=
all mr.being ill themselves; and then thought no more of the matter: and=20=
their indifference towards jane whencomposure, and would not open his=20=
lips till he believed himself to have attained it. the pause was toand=20=
the day after the next was fixed on."my dear," replied her husband, "i=20=
have two small favours to request. first, that you will allowbingley=20=
expressed great pleasure in the certainty of seeing elizabeth again,=20=
having still a greatand point of view. they gradually ascended for=20=
half-a-mile, and then found themselves at the top of a"but consider your=20=
daughters. only think what an establishment it would be for one of them.=20=
sir"you are too hasty, sir," she cried. "you forget that i have made no=20=
answer. let me do it without"on the evening before my going to london,"=20=
said he, "i made a confession to him, which iT>


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catherine), had only set that down as almost<BR>"what is it you=20=
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gradually ascended for half-a-mile, and then found themselves at the top=20=
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From mpls-bounces@lists.ietf.org Mon Nov 06 10:06:22 2006
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Thread-Topic: Comments on draft-leroux-mpls-p2mp-te-bypass-00.txt
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From: "LE ROUX Jean-Louis RD-CORE-LAN" <jeanlouis.leroux@orange-ftgroup.com>
To: "JP Vasseur" <jvasseur@cisco.com>,
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Subject: [mpls] RE: Comments on draft-leroux-mpls-p2mp-te-bypass-00.txt
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Hi Jean-Philippe

Thanks a lot for these comments

Please see inline,=20

> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : JP Vasseur [mailto:jvasseur@cisco.com]=20
> Envoy=E9 : vendredi 3 novembre 2006 14:22
> =C0 : LE ROUX Jean-Louis RD-CORE-LAN; zzx-rahul@juniper.net
> Cc : mpls@ietf.org
> Objet : Comments on draft-leroux-mpls-p2mp-te-bypass-00.txt
>=20
> Hi,
>=20
> First of all, my full support to the ID, this is for sure a=20
> needed solution in several cases.
>=20
> Here are my comments/suggestions:
> 1) To be discussed next week (live will be easier): it might=20
> be useful in some cases to tradeoff the rerouting times for=20
> the P2MP backup efficiency, provided that the failure=20
> detection times stays bounded of course and on the order of a=20
> few ms. Note that in situations where P2MP backup may be=20
> useful, it may make sense to have the PLR not immediately=20
> upstream to the protected element. We can use an distributed=20
> bidding mechanism to determine the PLR based on the P2MP=20
> backup cost and the distance between the PLR and the=20
> protected element.

Yes I see what you mean.=20
In the topologies I have in mind this is not really a problem, but I =
agree that what you suggest may be helpful in some specific topologies.
By the way one may run BFD between the PLR and the protected node so as =
to speed up the detection time. This needs to be futher investigated...
Also a flag could be defined in the LSP ATTRIBUTE object to indicate =
whether protection by the immediately upstream LSR is required or not...

> 2) In the introduction, don't you want to indicate that the=20
> use of bypass P2MP tunnels may lead to more states compared=20
> to the P2P case because of the requirement to fully intersect=20
> the protected primary ?

Yes we could add some text to discuss the tension between states and =
bandwidth consuption, which is actually a classical tension in multicast =
environments.=20
Here this is particularly true if bypass tunnel leaves exactly match the =
set of Merge Points of a protected primary.=20
By the way, we need feedback on the possibility to rely on Bypass =
tunnels whose leaves are actually a superset of the downstream Merge =
Points. This would allow a given bypass to protect much more P2MP LSPs, =
and would drastically reduce the number of bypass. The counter part is =
that during failure traffic may be sent to LSRs that are not MPs, they =
will drop the traffic (again the tension!)

> 3) Trade-off between a set of P2P, one P2MP bypass tunnels=20
> and a set of P2MP bypass tunnels. There are cases where it=20
> might be preferable to use a set of P2P because of the number=20
> of states if the PLR has to protect a large number of primary=20
> P2MP tunnels and the PLR cannot find a good overlapping=20
> bypass P2MP. An alternative is also to use a "few" P2MP=20
> bypass tunnels in that case: the PLR would have to do some=20
> replication but still much less than with P2P bypass tunnels.

This is a good point. This needs to be addressed in the draft.
Note also that combination of P2MP and P2P Bypass may be required for =
backward compatibility with MP that do not support upstream label =
assignement.

> 3) It would be useful to indicate that a P2MP TE LSP may be=20
> protected by some PLRs using P2P and by other PLRs using P2MP=20
> bypass tunnel along the protected P2MP primary path (thus comment 5)).

Hum I'm not sure this is the role of the head-end to specifiy if P2P or =
P2MP or both should be used on the PLR. To me this is a local decision =
to the PLR.

> 5) It might be useful to define:
> * a flag in the LSP-ATTRIBUTE to indicate at each PLR whether=20
> the primary P2MP TE LSP is protected by a set of P2P bypass=20
> tunnels or one P2MP bypass tunnel

I'm a bit sceptic, see above comment

> * a flag in the LSP-ATTRIBUTE to report "Partial" protection=20
> of the primary P2MP TE LSP, by partial I'm referring to the=20
> ability to only find a P2MP backup that does not fully=20
> intersect the primary TE LSP.

That would make sense.
If carried within the LSP-ATTRIBUTE object this would indicate whether =
partial protection is allowed or not, and when carried in the RRO this =
would allow reporting partial protection
 =20
> Or is partial protection simply not supported?

This needs to be discuss.


Thanks for these really useful comments.

See also below comments to your in-line comments.

Best Regards,

JL


>=20
> Comment in line (Search for JP>)
>=20
> Network Working Group                                      =20
> J.L. Le Roux
> Internet Draft                                           =20
> France Telecom
> Category: Standard Track
> Expires: February 2007                                      =20
> R. Aggarwal
>                                                         =20
> Juniper Networks
>=20
>=20
>=20
>                                                               August
> 2006
>              P2MP MPLS-TE Fast Reroute with P2MP Bypass Tunnels
>                   draft-leroux-mpls-p2mp-te-bypass-00.txt
> Status of this Memo
>     By submitting this Internet-Draft, each author represents that any
>     applicable patent or other IPR claims of which he or she is aware
>     have been or will be disclosed, and any of which he or she becomes
>     aware will be disclosed, in accordance with Section 6 of BCP 79.
>=20
>     Internet-Drafts are working documents of the Internet Engineering
>     Task Force (IETF), its areas, and its working groups.=20
> Note that other
>     groups may also distribute working documents as Internet-Drafts.
>=20
>     Internet-Drafts are draft documents valid for a maximum=20
> of six months
>     and may be updated, replaced, or obsoleted by other=20
> documents at any
>     time. It is inappropriate to use Internet- Drafts as reference
>     material or to cite them other than as "work in progress."
>=20
>     The list of current Internet-Drafts can be accessed at
>     http://www.ietf.org/ietf/1id-abstracts.txt.
>=20
>     The list of Internet-Draft Shadow Directories can be accessed at
>     http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html.
>=20
> Abstract
>=20
>     This document defines procedures for fast reroute protection of
>     point-to-multipoint (P2MP) MPLS-TE LSPs, with point-to-multipoint
>     bypass tunnels. During branch node failure the traffic on=20
> a protected
>     P2MP TE-LSP is tunneled within a P2MP bypass tunnel=20
> towards the set
>     of Merge Points. To avoid data duplication, the backup label is
>     assigned by the PLR following the RSVP-TE upstream label=20
> assignment
>     procedure.
> Le Roux, Aggarwal   Fast Reroute with P2MP Bypass Tunnels    =20
>  [Page 1]
>    =0C>=20
> Internet Draft  draft-leroux-mpls-p2mp-te-bypass-00.txt    August 2006
>=20
>=20
> Conventions used in this document
>     The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL",=20
> "SHALL NOT",
>     "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED",  "MAY", and=20
> "OPTIONAL" in this
>     document are to be interpreted as described in RFC-2119.
> Table of Contents
>=20
>     1.      =20
> Terminology.................................................2
>     2.      =20
> Introduction................................................3
>     3.      Solution =20
> overview...........................................3
>     4.      PLR =20
> procedures..............................................4
>     4.1.    Before =20
> failure..............................................4
>     4.2.    During =20
> failure..............................................5
>     5.      MP =20
> Procedures...............................................5
>     6.      Backward =20
> compatibility......................................6
>     7.      Security =20
> Considerations.....................................6
>     8.      =20
> References..................................................6
>     8.1.    Normative =20
> references........................................6
>     9.      Authors' =20
> Addresses:.........................................7
>     10.     Intellectual Property =20
> Statement.............................7
>=20
>=20
> 1.  Terminology
>     This document uses terminologies defined in [RFC3031], [RFC3209],
>     [RFC4090] and [RFC4461]. It defines the following new terms:
>     P2MP Bypass tunnel: Point-to-Multipoint Bypass Tunnel.  A P2MP TE-
>          LSP that is used to protect a set of P2MP TE-LSPs=20
> traversing a
>          common node. The Ingress LSR of a P2MP bypass tunnel=20
> is the PLR
>          and the leaf LSRs are a set of LSRs, on the=20
> protected P2MP LSP,
>          downstream of the protected node.
>=20
>     P2MP Facility Backup: A local repair method in which a P2MP bypass
>          tunnel is used to protect one or more P2MP TE-LSPs that
>          traverse the PLR (P2MP Bypass Ingress), the resource being
>          protected, and the set of Merge Points (P2MP Bypass leaves)
>          downstream to the protected resource.
>     Backup P2MP LSP: The LSP that is used to backup up one of the
>         many protected P2MP LSPs in P2MP Facility Backup.
>=20
>     Backup S2L sub-LSP: A S2L sub-LSP of a backup P2MP LSP.
>=20
>=20
>                          .
> Le Roux, Aggarwal                                             [Page 2]
>    =0C>=20
> Internet Draft  draft-leroux-mpls-p2mp-te-bypass-00.txt    August 2006
>=20
> JP> It might be useful to define the notion of overlapping P2MP
> Bypass tunnel
> where's all the leaf LSRs of the bypass tunnel intersect the=20
> protected primary P2MP tunnel.

OK, anyway this will have to be clarified, you may intersect the =
protected tunnel on a non MP...


>=20
> 2. Introduction
>=20
>     [RFC4090] defines fast reroute extensions to RSVP-TE for local
>     protection of P2P MPLS TE LSPs. Two techniques are=20
> defined: the one-
>     to-one backup method, which creates a detour LSP for each=20
> protected
>     LSP at each PLR, and the facility backup method, which creates a
>     bypass tunnel that can be used to protect a set of LSPs by taking
>     advantage of MPLS label stacking.
>=20
>     [RSVP-P2MP] defines extensions to RSVP-TE for setting up P2MP TE-
>     LSPs. It specifies extensions to one-to-one and facility=20
> backup Fast
>     Reroute procedures defined in [RFC4090] so as to support=20
> fast reroute
>     protection of P2MP LSPs.
>     The facility backup solution defined in [RSVP-P2MP] only relies on
>     P2P bypass tunnels for link and node protection. This faces the
>     following limitation: The protection of a P2MP LSP against node
>     failures requires, when the protected node is a Branch=20
> LSR, a set of
>     P2P Next Next Hop (NNHOP) Bypass tunnels towards all LSRs=20
> downstream
>     to the protected node. During failure the PLR has to replicate
>     traffic on each P2P NNHOP bypass tunnel, and this may lead to
>     significant inefficient bandwidth usage.
>     To overcome this limitation it is highly desired to=20
> define extensions
>     to the fast reroute facility backup solution, so as to=20
> support P2MP
>     Bypass tunnels.
>=20
> JP> See my previous comments regarding the trade-off between number
> of states and
> backup tunnel efficiency.

OK some text can be added here

>=20
>     This draft specifies extensions to the Fast Reroute procedures
>     defined in [RFC4090] and [RSVP-P2MP] to support P2MP TE-LSP node
>     protection with P2MP bypass tunnels.
>     Procedures defined in [RFC4090] and [RSVP-P2MP] MUST be followed
>     unless specified below.
>=20
> 3. Solution overview
>=20
>     The P2MP Facility Backup method defined in this document relies on
>     the use of P2MP bypass tunnels. A P2MP bypass tunnel can=20
> be used to
>     protect a set of P2MP TE-LSPs by taking advantage of MPLS label
>     stacking.
>     A P2MP Bypass tunnel is used to protect a P2MP TE-LSP=20
> against branch
>     LSR failures. The bypass tunnel head-end is the PLR, and=20
> the bypass
>     tunnel leaf LSRs are the set of MPs, that is the set of LSRs
>     downstream to the protected branch node, on the protected=20
> P2MP TE- LSP.
>     The P2MP bypass tunnel protects the set of S2L sub-LSPs=20
> that transit
>     the protected node.
>=20
>     When P2MP facility backup method is used, during failure=20
> the PLR MUST
>     send data for each protected P2MP LSP into the P2MP bypass tunnel.
>     Label stacking is used: The inner label is the backup=20
> label for the
>     backup P2MP LSP, that will be used on the MP to forward traffic to
>=20
> Le Roux, Aggarwal                                             [Page 3]
>    =0C>=20
> Internet Draft  draft-leroux-mpls-p2mp-te-bypass-00.txt    August 2006
>=20
>=20
>     the corresponding protected P2MP LSP, and the outer label=20
> is the P2MP
>     bypass tunnel label.
>     To avoid data replication on the PLR, the same backup=20
> label MUST be
>     used for all S2L sub-LSPs towards all MPs of a given=20
> backup P2MP LSP.
>     This backup label will indicate to the MPs that packets=20
> received with
>     that label should be switched along the protected P2MP LSP.
>     For that purpose upstream label assignment procedures defined in
>     [MPLS-UPSTREAM] and RSVP-TE extensions for upstream label=20
> assignment
>     defined in [RSVP-UP] MUST be used. To signal a backup=20
> P2MP LSP, the
>     same backup label, is distributed by the PLR to the set of MPs, in
>     the context of the P2MP bypass tunnel. This requires the=20
> backup P2MP
>     LSP to be signalled prior to the failure.
>=20
> JP> Which is required anyway to guarantee fast rerouting and always
> the case for Protection recovery
> (by contrast with recovery)
>=20
>     On the MP, backup S2L sub-LSPs (i.e. S2L sub-LSPs of the=20
> backup P2MP
>     LSP) are merged with protected S2L sub-LSPs. The MPs, (i.e. the
>     bypass tunnel leaf LSRs), maintain a context specific ILM
>=20
> JP> Spell ?
>=20
>     for the
>     P2MP Bypass tunnel. The context of an inner label (i.e a backup
> label)
>     is determined by the underlying P2MP bypass tunnel on which it is
>     received. This requires deactivating PHP on the P2MP=20
> bypass tunnel. A
>     label, in a given Bypass tunnel specific ILM, is mapped to the
>     outgoing interfaces and labels of the corresponding protected P2MP
>     LSP.
> 4. PLR procedures
> 4.1. Before failure
>     To protect a P2MP LSP against a branch node failure, a PLR MUST
>=20
> JP> The MUST is what I propose to change (see comments above)
> depending on the path
> quality for the P2MP bypass, number of states, ... compared=20
> to using P2P bypass.

OK

>=20
>     select a P2MP bypass tunnel with a set of leaf LSRs with the
>     following properties:
>          - These leaf LSRs are transit or egress LSRs on the protected
>            P2MP LSP. We will denote this subset as {LSR1.LSRn}.
>          - {LSR1.LSRn} are downstream of the protected node on the
>             Protected P2MP LSP.
>          - In the event of failure of the protected node, traffic
>            received on the protected P2MP LSP by the PLR, can be
>            delivered to all the leaves of the protected P2MP LSP
>            downstream to the failed node, if it is tunnelled to
>            {LSR1.LSRn} over the P2MP bypass.
>=20
> JP> This is where we could discuss using one or more P2MP bypass (if
> non overlapping)

OK

>=20
>     PHP MUST be deactivated on the P2MP Bypass tunnel, in=20
> order to allow
>     MPs to determine the context for the backup labels assigned by the
>     PLR.
>     The backup label (i.e. the inner label) used for every backup S2L
>     sub-LSPs, (i.e. the inner label within the P2MP bypass=20
> tunnel), of a
>     given backup P2MP LSP MUST be the same, so as to avoid traffic
>     replication on the PLR. This label MUST be assigned by=20
> the PLR using
>     upstream label assignment procedures.
>=20
>=20
> Le Roux, Aggarwal                                             [Page 4]
>    =0C>=20
> Internet Draft  draft-leroux-mpls-p2mp-te-bypass-00.txt    August 2006
>=20
>=20
>     Backup P2MP LSPs MUST be signaled prior to the failure.
>     To signal the backup P2MP LSP, the PLR MUST send one or more Path
>     messages to each MP. The Path messages to signal a backup P2MP LSP
>     are sent to the MPs using directed signaling; they are=20
> addressed to
>     the MPs, without Router Alert option.
>     The PLR MUST use the sender template specific method to identify a
>     Path message for a backup P2MP LSPs. Hence the PLR will set the
>     source address in the sender template to a local PLR address.
>     A Path message to a given MP comprises one or more backup S2L sub-
>     LSPs that transit through this MP.
>=20
>     The backup label MUST be assigned by the PLR, in the=20
> context of the
>     underlying P2MP Bypass tunnel, following upstream label assignment
>     and P2MP RSVP-TE context identification procedures=20
> defined in [RSVP-
>     UP]. Hence, a Path message sent to a MP for a backup P2MP LSP MUST
>     include an Upstream Assigned Label object carrying the=20
> value of the
>     backup label. It MUST also include an RSVP-TE P2MP LSP=20
> TLV within an
>     IF_ID RSVP TLV, that carries the session object of the underlying
>     P2MP Bypass tunnel. This allows MPs to identify the label space of
>     the backup label assigned by the PLR. The same backup=20
> label MUST be
>     sent to all MPs of a protected P2MP LSP.
>=20
>     Note that the PLR MUST continue to refresh Path messages for the
>     protected P2MP LSP along the nominal route.
>     The processing of backup S2L sub-LSP SEROs/SRROs MUST follow
>     backup LSP ERO/RRO processing described in [RFC4090].
>=20
> 4.2. During failure
>=20
>     When the PLR detects a link or/and node failure=20
> condition, it has to
>     reroute a protected P2MP LSP onto the P2MP bypass tunnel using as
>     inner label the backup label assigned for this P2MP LSP.
>     The PLR MUST continue to send Path messages for the=20
> backup P2MP LSP.
>=20
> JP> Need to discuss the replication of Path messages by the branch
> node along the backup P2P LSP

Actually there is no any replication, the Path message is not sent =
within the P2MP Bypass, it is IP routed to the MP...

>=20
>     The RRO/ERO flags MUST be updated as per defined in=20
> [RFC4090] 5. MP Procedures
>     A MP receives one or more Path messages for the protected P2MP LSP
>     and one or more Path messages for the backup P2MP LSP.
>=20
>     Note that, as specified in [RFC4090], the reception of a=20
> backup LSP's
>     Path message does not indicate that a failure has occurred or that
>     the incoming protected LSP will no longer be used.
>=20
>     A S2L sub-LSP is received
>=20
> JP> "Received" confusing terminology

OK will change to "included"

>=20
> within a Path message for the protected
>     P2MP LSP and within a Path message for the backup P2MP=20
> LSP. These two
>     Path messages are distinguished thanks to the sender-template
>     specific method. As specified in [RFC4090], each of these Path
>     messages will have a different SENDER_TEMPLATE.  The protected LSP
>     can be recognized because it will include the=20
> FAST_REROUTE object or
>=20
> Le Roux, Aggarwal                                             [Page 5]
>    =0C>=20
> Internet Draft  draft-leroux-mpls-p2mp-te-bypass-00.txt    August 2006
>=20
>=20
>     have the "local protection desired" flag set in the=20
> SESSION_ATTRIBUTE
>     object, or both.
>     A MP MUST install the upstream assigned label received in a backup
>     LSP Path message, within an ILM specific to the underlying bypass
>     tunnel, which is identified by its session object,=20
> carried within the
>     IF_ID RSVP_HOP object of the backup Path message. An upstream
>     assigned label for a backup P2MP LSP MUST be mapped to=20
> the outgoing
>     interfaces and labels of the corresponding protected P2MP LSP.
>=20
>     As specified in [RSVP-UP], the Resv message sent by a MP=20
> to the PLR,
>     does not carry any Label Object.
>     The processing of backup S2L sub-LSP SEROs/SRROs MUST follow
>     backup tunnel ERO/RRO processing described in [RFC4090].
> 6. Backward compatibility
>=20
>     Procedures with MPs that do not support upstream label=20
> assignment are
>     to be defined (combination of P2P and P2MP bypass LSPs).
> 7. Security Considerations
>=20
>     No new security issues are raised in this document.
> 8. References
>=20
> 8.1. Normative references
>=20
>     [RFC2119] Bradner, S., "Key words for use in RFCs to Indicate
>     Requirement Levels", BCP 14, RFC 2119, March 1997.
>     [RFC3031] E. Rosen, A. Viswanathan, R. Callon, "MPLS=20
> Architecture",
>     RFC 3031.
>=20
>     [RFC3209] D. Awduche et al., "RSVP-TE: Extensions to RSVP for LSP
>     Tunnels", RFC3209.
>     [RFC4461] S. Yasukawa et al., "Signaling Requirements for=20
> Point-to-
>     Multipoint Traffic-Engineered MPLS Label Switched Paths (LSPs)",
>     RFC4461.
>     [RFC4090] Pan, Swallow, Atlas, et al., "Fast Reroute Extensions to
>     RSVP-TE for LSP Tunnels", RFC4090.
>=20
>     [RSVP-P2MP] Aggarwal, Papadimitriou, Yasukawa,=20
> "Extensions to RSVP-TE
>     for Point to Multipoint TE LSPs",=20
> draft-ietf-mpls-p2mp-rsvp-te, work
>     in progress.
>=20
>     [MPLS-UPSTREAM] Aggarwal, Rekhter, Rosen, "MPLS Upstream Label
>     Assignment and Context Specific Label Space", draft-ietf-mpls-
>     upstream-label, work in progress.
> Le Roux, Aggarwal                                             [Page 6]
>    =0C>=20
> Internet Draft  draft-leroux-mpls-p2mp-te-bypass-00.txt    August 2006
>=20
>=20
>     [RSVP-UP] Aggarwal, Le Roux, " MPLS Upstream Label Assignment for
>     RSVP-TE", draft-ietf-mpls-rsvp-upstream, work in progress.
> 9. Authors' Addresses:
>=20
>     Jean-Louis Le Roux
>     France Telecom
>     2, avenue Pierre-Marzin
>     22307 Lannion Cedex
>     FRANCE
>     Email: jeanlouis.leroux@francetelecom.com
>=20
>     Rahul Aggarwal
>     Juniper Networks
>     1194 North Mathilda Ave.
>     Sunnyvale, CA 94089
>     Email: rahul@juniper.net
> 10. Intellectual Property Statement
>     The IETF takes no position regarding the validity or scope of any
>     Intellectual Property Rights or other rights that might=20
> be claimed to
>     pertain to the implementation or use of the technology=20
> described in
>     this document or the extent to which any license under such rights
>     might or might not be available; nor does it represent that it has
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> Le Roux, Aggarwal                                             [Page 7]
>    =0C>=20
> Internet Draft  draft-leroux-mpls-p2mp-te-bypass-00.txt    August 2006
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> Le Roux, Aggarwal                                             [Page 8]
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Hi,

  I'd like to draw your attention to the tcpm working group
agenda; it begins with a discussion of draft-bellovin-tcpsec,
whose abstract reads:

   The TCP-MD5 option, commonly used to secure BGP sessions between
   routers, has many serious deficiencies.  We present here
   justifications for designing a new, more capable version of that
   option; we also discuss some of the design criteria for one.

I'd encourage those with thoughts and experience in this area to attend
if you can.

Thanks,
  Bill

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Hi Jean-Louis,

On Nov 6, 2006, at 9:58 AM, LE ROUX Jean-Louis RD-CORE-LAN wrote:

> Hi Jean-Philippe
>
> Thanks a lot for these comments
>
> Please see inline,
>
>> -----Message d'origine-----
>> De : JP Vasseur [mailto:jvasseur@cisco.com]
>> Envoy=E9 : vendredi 3 novembre 2006 14:22
>> =C0 : LE ROUX Jean-Louis RD-CORE-LAN; zzx-rahul@juniper.net
>> Cc : mpls@ietf.org
>> Objet : Comments on draft-leroux-mpls-p2mp-te-bypass-00.txt
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> First of all, my full support to the ID, this is for sure a
>> needed solution in several cases.
>>
>> Here are my comments/suggestions:
>> 1) To be discussed next week (live will be easier): it might
>> be useful in some cases to tradeoff the rerouting times for
>> the P2MP backup efficiency, provided that the failure
>> detection times stays bounded of course and on the order of a
>> few ms. Note that in situations where P2MP backup may be
>> useful, it may make sense to have the PLR not immediately
>> upstream to the protected element. We can use an distributed
>> bidding mechanism to determine the PLR based on the P2MP
>> backup cost and the distance between the PLR and the
>> protected element.
>
> Yes I see what you mean.
> In the topologies I have in mind this is not really a problem, but =20
> I agree that what you suggest may be helpful in some specific =20
> topologies.
> By the way one may run BFD between the PLR and the protected node =20
> so as to speed up the detection time. This needs to be futher =20
> investigated...
>

Yes although the Path Error should be used as a trigger (probably =20
faster than the running a additional BFD Session and less expensive) =20
but this is a detail.

> Also a flag could be defined in the LSP ATTRIBUTE object to =20
> indicate whether protection by the immediately upstream LSR is =20
> required or not...

Yes or what is the Max Tolerable Rerouting delay (since in some cases =20=

adding N Hopes may be acceptable whereas in other cases M with M<<N =20
is the maximum tolerable delay).

Let's discuss this week.

>
>> 2) In the introduction, don't you want to indicate that the
>> use of bypass P2MP tunnels may lead to more states compared
>> to the P2P case because of the requirement to fully intersect
>> the protected primary ?
>
> Yes we could add some text to discuss the tension between states =20
> and bandwidth consuption, which is actually a classical tension in =20
> multicast environments.
> Here this is particularly true if bypass tunnel leaves exactly =20
> match the set of Merge Points of a protected primary.
> By the way, we need feedback on the possibility to rely on Bypass =20
> tunnels whose leaves are actually a superset of the downstream =20
> Merge Points. This would allow a given bypass to protect much more =20
> P2MP LSPs, and would drastically reduce the number of bypass. The =20
> counter part is that during failure traffic may be sent to LSRs =20
> that are not MPs, they will drop the traffic (again the tension!)

Exactly (note that Tension is sometimes a good thing ... look at =20
Blues music ;-))

>
>> 3) Trade-off between a set of P2P, one P2MP bypass tunnels
>> and a set of P2MP bypass tunnels. There are cases where it
>> might be preferable to use a set of P2P because of the number
>> of states if the PLR has to protect a large number of primary
>> P2MP tunnels and the PLR cannot find a good overlapping
>> bypass P2MP. An alternative is also to use a "few" P2MP
>> bypass tunnels in that case: the PLR would have to do some
>> replication but still much less than with P2P bypass tunnels.
>
> This is a good point. This needs to be addressed in the draft.
> Note also that combination of P2MP and P2P Bypass may be required =20
> for backward compatibility with MP that do not support upstream =20
> label assignement.

We're in sync.

>
>> 3) It would be useful to indicate that a P2MP TE LSP may be
>> protected by some PLRs using P2P and by other PLRs using P2MP
>> bypass tunnel along the protected P2MP primary path (thus comment =20
>> 5)).
>
> Hum I'm not sure this is the role of the head-end to specifiy if =20
> P2P or P2MP or both should be used on the PLR. To me this is a =20
> local decision to the PLR.
>

Yes (can't remember why I proposed this ;-)). At least we need a way =20
to record the P2MP bypass tunnel type used at each PLR.

>> 5) It might be useful to define:
>> * a flag in the LSP-ATTRIBUTE to indicate at each PLR whether
>> the primary P2MP TE LSP is protected by a set of P2P bypass
>> tunnels or one P2MP bypass tunnel
>
> I'm a bit sceptic, see above comment
>
>> * a flag in the LSP-ATTRIBUTE to report "Partial" protection
>> of the primary P2MP TE LSP, by partial I'm referring to the
>> ability to only find a P2MP backup that does not fully
>> intersect the primary TE LSP.
>
> That would make sense.
> If carried within the LSP-ATTRIBUTE object this would indicate =20
> whether partial protection is allowed or not, and when carried in =20
> the RRO this would allow reporting partial protection

We may probably want to use the LSP-ATTRIBUTE object in both cases.

>
>> Or is partial protection simply not supported?
>
> This needs to be discuss.
>

OK let's try to find some time this week and go back to the list.

>
> Thanks for these really useful comments.
>
> See also below comments to your in-line comments.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> JL
>
>
>>
>> Comment in line (Search for JP>)
>>
>> Network Working Group
>> J.L. Le Roux
>> Internet Draft
>> France Telecom
>> Category: Standard Track
>> Expires: February 2007
>> R. Aggarwal
>>
>> Juniper Networks
>>
>>
>>
>>                                                               August
>> 2006
>>              P2MP MPLS-TE Fast Reroute with P2MP Bypass Tunnels
>>                   draft-leroux-mpls-p2mp-te-bypass-00.txt
>> Status of this Memo
>>     By submitting this Internet-Draft, each author represents that =20=

>> any
>>     applicable patent or other IPR claims of which he or she is aware
>>     have been or will be disclosed, and any of which he or she =20
>> becomes
>>     aware will be disclosed, in accordance with Section 6 of BCP 79.
>>
>>     Internet-Drafts are working documents of the Internet Engineering
>>     Task Force (IETF), its areas, and its working groups.
>> Note that other
>>     groups may also distribute working documents as Internet-Drafts.
>>
>>     Internet-Drafts are draft documents valid for a maximum
>> of six months
>>     and may be updated, replaced, or obsoleted by other
>> documents at any
>>     time. It is inappropriate to use Internet- Drafts as reference
>>     material or to cite them other than as "work in progress."
>>
>>     The list of current Internet-Drafts can be accessed at
>>     http://www.ietf.org/ietf/1id-abstracts.txt.
>>
>>     The list of Internet-Draft Shadow Directories can be accessed at
>>     http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html.
>>
>> Abstract
>>
>>     This document defines procedures for fast reroute protection of
>>     point-to-multipoint (P2MP) MPLS-TE LSPs, with point-to-multipoint
>>     bypass tunnels. During branch node failure the traffic on
>> a protected
>>     P2MP TE-LSP is tunneled within a P2MP bypass tunnel
>> towards the set
>>     of Merge Points. To avoid data duplication, the backup label is
>>     assigned by the PLR following the RSVP-TE upstream label
>> assignment
>>     procedure.
>> Le Roux, Aggarwal   Fast Reroute with P2MP Bypass Tunnels
>>  [Page 1]
>>    =0C>
>> Internet Draft  draft-leroux-mpls-p2mp-te-bypass-00.txt    August =20
>> 2006
>>
>>
>> Conventions used in this document
>>     The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL",
>> "SHALL NOT",
>>     "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED",  "MAY", and
>> "OPTIONAL" in this
>>     document are to be interpreted as described in RFC-2119.
>> Table of Contents
>>
>>     1.
>> Terminology.................................................2
>>     2.
>> Introduction................................................3
>>     3.      Solution
>> overview...........................................3
>>     4.      PLR
>> procedures..............................................4
>>     4.1.    Before
>> failure..............................................4
>>     4.2.    During
>> failure..............................................5
>>     5.      MP
>> Procedures...............................................5
>>     6.      Backward
>> compatibility......................................6
>>     7.      Security
>> Considerations.....................................6
>>     8.
>> References..................................................6
>>     8.1.    Normative
>> references........................................6
>>     9.      Authors'
>> Addresses:.........................................7
>>     10.     Intellectual Property
>> Statement.............................7
>>
>>
>> 1.  Terminology
>>     This document uses terminologies defined in [RFC3031], [RFC3209],
>>     [RFC4090] and [RFC4461]. It defines the following new terms:
>>     P2MP Bypass tunnel: Point-to-Multipoint Bypass Tunnel.  A P2MP =20=

>> TE-
>>          LSP that is used to protect a set of P2MP TE-LSPs
>> traversing a
>>          common node. The Ingress LSR of a P2MP bypass tunnel
>> is the PLR
>>          and the leaf LSRs are a set of LSRs, on the
>> protected P2MP LSP,
>>          downstream of the protected node.
>>
>>     P2MP Facility Backup: A local repair method in which a P2MP =20
>> bypass
>>          tunnel is used to protect one or more P2MP TE-LSPs that
>>          traverse the PLR (P2MP Bypass Ingress), the resource being
>>          protected, and the set of Merge Points (P2MP Bypass leaves)
>>          downstream to the protected resource.
>>     Backup P2MP LSP: The LSP that is used to backup up one of the
>>         many protected P2MP LSPs in P2MP Facility Backup.
>>
>>     Backup S2L sub-LSP: A S2L sub-LSP of a backup P2MP LSP.
>>
>>
>>                          .
>> Le Roux, Aggarwal                                             =20
>> [Page 2]
>>    =0C>
>> Internet Draft  draft-leroux-mpls-p2mp-te-bypass-00.txt    August =20
>> 2006
>>
>> JP> It might be useful to define the notion of overlapping P2MP
>> Bypass tunnel
>> where's all the leaf LSRs of the bypass tunnel intersect the
>> protected primary P2MP tunnel.
>
> OK, anyway this will have to be clarified, you may intersect the =20
> protected tunnel on a non MP...
>
>
>>
>> 2. Introduction
>>
>>     [RFC4090] defines fast reroute extensions to RSVP-TE for local
>>     protection of P2P MPLS TE LSPs. Two techniques are
>> defined: the one-
>>     to-one backup method, which creates a detour LSP for each
>> protected
>>     LSP at each PLR, and the facility backup method, which creates a
>>     bypass tunnel that can be used to protect a set of LSPs by taking
>>     advantage of MPLS label stacking.
>>
>>     [RSVP-P2MP] defines extensions to RSVP-TE for setting up P2MP TE-
>>     LSPs. It specifies extensions to one-to-one and facility
>> backup Fast
>>     Reroute procedures defined in [RFC4090] so as to support
>> fast reroute
>>     protection of P2MP LSPs.
>>     The facility backup solution defined in [RSVP-P2MP] only =20
>> relies on
>>     P2P bypass tunnels for link and node protection. This faces the
>>     following limitation: The protection of a P2MP LSP against node
>>     failures requires, when the protected node is a Branch
>> LSR, a set of
>>     P2P Next Next Hop (NNHOP) Bypass tunnels towards all LSRs
>> downstream
>>     to the protected node. During failure the PLR has to replicate
>>     traffic on each P2P NNHOP bypass tunnel, and this may lead to
>>     significant inefficient bandwidth usage.
>>     To overcome this limitation it is highly desired to
>> define extensions
>>     to the fast reroute facility backup solution, so as to
>> support P2MP
>>     Bypass tunnels.
>>
>> JP> See my previous comments regarding the trade-off between number
>> of states and
>> backup tunnel efficiency.
>
> OK some text can be added here
>
>>
>>     This draft specifies extensions to the Fast Reroute procedures
>>     defined in [RFC4090] and [RSVP-P2MP] to support P2MP TE-LSP node
>>     protection with P2MP bypass tunnels.
>>     Procedures defined in [RFC4090] and [RSVP-P2MP] MUST be followed
>>     unless specified below.
>>
>> 3. Solution overview
>>
>>     The P2MP Facility Backup method defined in this document =20
>> relies on
>>     the use of P2MP bypass tunnels. A P2MP bypass tunnel can
>> be used to
>>     protect a set of P2MP TE-LSPs by taking advantage of MPLS label
>>     stacking.
>>     A P2MP Bypass tunnel is used to protect a P2MP TE-LSP
>> against branch
>>     LSR failures. The bypass tunnel head-end is the PLR, and
>> the bypass
>>     tunnel leaf LSRs are the set of MPs, that is the set of LSRs
>>     downstream to the protected branch node, on the protected
>> P2MP TE- LSP.
>>     The P2MP bypass tunnel protects the set of S2L sub-LSPs
>> that transit
>>     the protected node.
>>
>>     When P2MP facility backup method is used, during failure
>> the PLR MUST
>>     send data for each protected P2MP LSP into the P2MP bypass =20
>> tunnel.
>>     Label stacking is used: The inner label is the backup
>> label for the
>>     backup P2MP LSP, that will be used on the MP to forward =20
>> traffic to
>>
>> Le Roux, Aggarwal                                             =20
>> [Page 3]
>>    =0C>
>> Internet Draft  draft-leroux-mpls-p2mp-te-bypass-00.txt    August =20
>> 2006
>>
>>
>>     the corresponding protected P2MP LSP, and the outer label
>> is the P2MP
>>     bypass tunnel label.
>>     To avoid data replication on the PLR, the same backup
>> label MUST be
>>     used for all S2L sub-LSPs towards all MPs of a given
>> backup P2MP LSP.
>>     This backup label will indicate to the MPs that packets
>> received with
>>     that label should be switched along the protected P2MP LSP.
>>     For that purpose upstream label assignment procedures defined in
>>     [MPLS-UPSTREAM] and RSVP-TE extensions for upstream label
>> assignment
>>     defined in [RSVP-UP] MUST be used. To signal a backup
>> P2MP LSP, the
>>     same backup label, is distributed by the PLR to the set of =20
>> MPs, in
>>     the context of the P2MP bypass tunnel. This requires the
>> backup P2MP
>>     LSP to be signalled prior to the failure.
>>
>> JP> Which is required anyway to guarantee fast rerouting and always
>> the case for Protection recovery
>> (by contrast with recovery)
>>
>>     On the MP, backup S2L sub-LSPs (i.e. S2L sub-LSPs of the
>> backup P2MP
>>     LSP) are merged with protected S2L sub-LSPs. The MPs, (i.e. the
>>     bypass tunnel leaf LSRs), maintain a context specific ILM
>>
>> JP> Spell ?
>>
>>     for the
>>     P2MP Bypass tunnel. The context of an inner label (i.e a backup
>> label)
>>     is determined by the underlying P2MP bypass tunnel on which it is
>>     received. This requires deactivating PHP on the P2MP
>> bypass tunnel. A
>>     label, in a given Bypass tunnel specific ILM, is mapped to the
>>     outgoing interfaces and labels of the corresponding protected =20
>> P2MP
>>     LSP.
>> 4. PLR procedures
>> 4.1. Before failure
>>     To protect a P2MP LSP against a branch node failure, a PLR MUST
>>
>> JP> The MUST is what I propose to change (see comments above)
>> depending on the path
>> quality for the P2MP bypass, number of states, ... compared
>> to using P2P bypass.
>
> OK
>
>>
>>     select a P2MP bypass tunnel with a set of leaf LSRs with the
>>     following properties:
>>          - These leaf LSRs are transit or egress LSRs on the =20
>> protected
>>            P2MP LSP. We will denote this subset as {LSR1.LSRn}.
>>          - {LSR1.LSRn} are downstream of the protected node on the
>>             Protected P2MP LSP.
>>          - In the event of failure of the protected node, traffic
>>            received on the protected P2MP LSP by the PLR, can be
>>            delivered to all the leaves of the protected P2MP LSP
>>            downstream to the failed node, if it is tunnelled to
>>            {LSR1.LSRn} over the P2MP bypass.
>>
>> JP> This is where we could discuss using one or more P2MP bypass (if
>> non overlapping)
>
> OK
>
>>
>>     PHP MUST be deactivated on the P2MP Bypass tunnel, in
>> order to allow
>>     MPs to determine the context for the backup labels assigned by =20=

>> the
>>     PLR.
>>     The backup label (i.e. the inner label) used for every backup S2L
>>     sub-LSPs, (i.e. the inner label within the P2MP bypass
>> tunnel), of a
>>     given backup P2MP LSP MUST be the same, so as to avoid traffic
>>     replication on the PLR. This label MUST be assigned by
>> the PLR using
>>     upstream label assignment procedures.
>>
>>
>> Le Roux, Aggarwal                                             =20
>> [Page 4]
>>    =0C>
>> Internet Draft  draft-leroux-mpls-p2mp-te-bypass-00.txt    August =20
>> 2006
>>
>>
>>     Backup P2MP LSPs MUST be signaled prior to the failure.
>>     To signal the backup P2MP LSP, the PLR MUST send one or more Path
>>     messages to each MP. The Path messages to signal a backup P2MP =20=

>> LSP
>>     are sent to the MPs using directed signaling; they are
>> addressed to
>>     the MPs, without Router Alert option.
>>     The PLR MUST use the sender template specific method to =20
>> identify a
>>     Path message for a backup P2MP LSPs. Hence the PLR will set the
>>     source address in the sender template to a local PLR address.
>>     A Path message to a given MP comprises one or more backup S2L =20
>> sub-
>>     LSPs that transit through this MP.
>>
>>     The backup label MUST be assigned by the PLR, in the
>> context of the
>>     underlying P2MP Bypass tunnel, following upstream label =20
>> assignment
>>     and P2MP RSVP-TE context identification procedures
>> defined in [RSVP-
>>     UP]. Hence, a Path message sent to a MP for a backup P2MP LSP =20
>> MUST
>>     include an Upstream Assigned Label object carrying the
>> value of the
>>     backup label. It MUST also include an RSVP-TE P2MP LSP
>> TLV within an
>>     IF_ID RSVP TLV, that carries the session object of the underlying
>>     P2MP Bypass tunnel. This allows MPs to identify the label =20
>> space of
>>     the backup label assigned by the PLR. The same backup
>> label MUST be
>>     sent to all MPs of a protected P2MP LSP.
>>
>>     Note that the PLR MUST continue to refresh Path messages for the
>>     protected P2MP LSP along the nominal route.
>>     The processing of backup S2L sub-LSP SEROs/SRROs MUST follow
>>     backup LSP ERO/RRO processing described in [RFC4090].
>>
>> 4.2. During failure
>>
>>     When the PLR detects a link or/and node failure
>> condition, it has to
>>     reroute a protected P2MP LSP onto the P2MP bypass tunnel using as
>>     inner label the backup label assigned for this P2MP LSP.
>>     The PLR MUST continue to send Path messages for the
>> backup P2MP LSP.
>>
>> JP> Need to discuss the replication of Path messages by the branch
>> node along the backup P2P LSP
>
> Actually there is no any replication, the Path message is not sent =20
> within the P2MP Bypass, it is IP routed to the MP...

What about path states creation + routing convergence issues ... ?

Thanks.

JP.

>
>>
>>     The RRO/ERO flags MUST be updated as per defined in
>> [RFC4090] 5. MP Procedures
>>     A MP receives one or more Path messages for the protected P2MP =20=

>> LSP
>>     and one or more Path messages for the backup P2MP LSP.
>>
>>     Note that, as specified in [RFC4090], the reception of a
>> backup LSP's
>>     Path message does not indicate that a failure has occurred or =20
>> that
>>     the incoming protected LSP will no longer be used.
>>
>>     A S2L sub-LSP is received
>>
>> JP> "Received" confusing terminology
>
> OK will change to "included"
>
>>
>> within a Path message for the protected
>>     P2MP LSP and within a Path message for the backup P2MP
>> LSP. These two
>>     Path messages are distinguished thanks to the sender-template
>>     specific method. As specified in [RFC4090], each of these Path
>>     messages will have a different SENDER_TEMPLATE.  The protected =20=

>> LSP
>>     can be recognized because it will include the
>> FAST_REROUTE object or
>>
>> Le Roux, Aggarwal                                             =20
>> [Page 5]
>>    =0C>
>> Internet Draft  draft-leroux-mpls-p2mp-te-bypass-00.txt    August =20
>> 2006
>>
>>
>>     have the "local protection desired" flag set in the
>> SESSION_ATTRIBUTE
>>     object, or both.
>>     A MP MUST install the upstream assigned label received in a =20
>> backup
>>     LSP Path message, within an ILM specific to the underlying bypass
>>     tunnel, which is identified by its session object,
>> carried within the
>>     IF_ID RSVP_HOP object of the backup Path message. An upstream
>>     assigned label for a backup P2MP LSP MUST be mapped to
>> the outgoing
>>     interfaces and labels of the corresponding protected P2MP LSP.
>>
>>     As specified in [RSVP-UP], the Resv message sent by a MP
>> to the PLR,
>>     does not carry any Label Object.
>>     The processing of backup S2L sub-LSP SEROs/SRROs MUST follow
>>     backup tunnel ERO/RRO processing described in [RFC4090].
>> 6. Backward compatibility
>>
>>     Procedures with MPs that do not support upstream label
>> assignment are
>>     to be defined (combination of P2P and P2MP bypass LSPs).
>> 7. Security Considerations
>>
>>     No new security issues are raised in this document.
>> 8. References
>>
>> 8.1. Normative references
>>
>>     [RFC2119] Bradner, S., "Key words for use in RFCs to Indicate
>>     Requirement Levels", BCP 14, RFC 2119, March 1997.
>>     [RFC3031] E. Rosen, A. Viswanathan, R. Callon, "MPLS
>> Architecture",
>>     RFC 3031.
>>
>>     [RFC3209] D. Awduche et al., "RSVP-TE: Extensions to RSVP for LSP
>>     Tunnels", RFC3209.
>>     [RFC4461] S. Yasukawa et al., "Signaling Requirements for
>> Point-to-
>>     Multipoint Traffic-Engineered MPLS Label Switched Paths (LSPs)",
>>     RFC4461.
>>     [RFC4090] Pan, Swallow, Atlas, et al., "Fast Reroute =20
>> Extensions to
>>     RSVP-TE for LSP Tunnels", RFC4090.
>>
>>     [RSVP-P2MP] Aggarwal, Papadimitriou, Yasukawa,
>> "Extensions to RSVP-TE
>>     for Point to Multipoint TE LSPs",
>> draft-ietf-mpls-p2mp-rsvp-te, work
>>     in progress.
>>
>>     [MPLS-UPSTREAM] Aggarwal, Rekhter, Rosen, "MPLS Upstream Label
>>     Assignment and Context Specific Label Space", draft-ietf-mpls-
>>     upstream-label, work in progress.
>> Le Roux, Aggarwal                                             =20
>> [Page 6]
>>    =0C>
>> Internet Draft  draft-leroux-mpls-p2mp-te-bypass-00.txt    August =20
>> 2006
>>
>>
>>     [RSVP-UP] Aggarwal, Le Roux, " MPLS Upstream Label Assignment for
>>     RSVP-TE", draft-ietf-mpls-rsvp-upstream, work in progress.
>> 9. Authors' Addresses:
>>
>>     Jean-Louis Le Roux
>>     France Telecom
>>     2, avenue Pierre-Marzin
>>     22307 Lannion Cedex
>>     FRANCE
>>     Email: jeanlouis.leroux@francetelecom.com
>>
>>     Rahul Aggarwal
>>     Juniper Networks
>>     1194 North Mathilda Ave.
>>     Sunnyvale, CA 94089
>>     Email: rahul@juniper.net
>> 10. Intellectual Property Statement
>>     The IETF takes no position regarding the validity or scope of any
>>     Intellectual Property Rights or other rights that might
>> be claimed to
>>     pertain to the implementation or use of the technology
>> described in
>>     this document or the extent to which any license under such =20
>> rights
>>     might or might not be available; nor does it represent that it =20=

>> has
>>     made any independent effort to identify any such rights.
>> Information
>>     on the procedures with respect to rights in RFC documents can be
>>     found in BCP 78 and BCP 79.
>>
>>     Copies of IPR disclosures made to the IETF Secretariat and any
>>     assurances of licenses to be made available, or the result of an
>>     attempt made to obtain a general license or permission
>> for the use of
>>     such proprietary rights by implementers or users of this
>>     specification can be obtained from the IETF on-line IPR
>> repository at
>>     http://www.ietf.org/ipr.
>>
>>     The IETF invites any interested party to bring to its
>> attention any
>>     copyrights, patents or patent applications, or other proprietary
>>     rights that may cover technology that may be required to =20
>> implement
>>     this standard.  Please address the information to the IETF at
>>     ietf-ipr@ietf.org.
>>
>>     Disclaimer of Validity
>>
>>     This document and the information contained herein are
>> provided on an
>>     "AS IS" basis and THE CONTRIBUTOR, THE ORGANIZATION
>> HE/SHE REPRESENTS
>>     OR IS SPONSORED BY (IF ANY), THE INTERNET SOCIETY AND THE =20
>> INTERNET
>>     ENGINEERING TASK FORCE DISCLAIM ALL WARRANTIES, EXPRESS
>> OR IMPLIED,
>>     INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO ANY WARRANTY THAT THE USE OF THE
>>     INFORMATION HEREIN WILL NOT INFRINGE ANY RIGHTS OR ANY IMPLIED
>> Le Roux, Aggarwal                                             =20
>> [Page 7]
>>    =0C>
>> Internet Draft  draft-leroux-mpls-p2mp-te-bypass-00.txt    August =20
>> 2006
>>
>>
>>     WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY OR FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR =20
>> PURPOSE.
>>
>>     Copyright Statement
>>
>>     Copyright (C) The Internet Society (2006).  This document
>> is subject
>>     to the rights, licenses and restrictions contained in BCP 78, and
>>     except as set forth therein, the authors retain all their rights.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Le Roux, Aggarwal                                             =20
>> [Page 8]
>>    =0C>
>>

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"every thing being settled between them , mr. darcy's next step was to=20=
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all this was acknowledged to mrs. gardiner; and after relating the=20=
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elizabeth could bear it no longer. she got up, and ran out of the room;=20=
and returned no more, till

because you have always so much."
earnest desire of being loved by her sister.
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"is your opinion of me!




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Hi,

I don't think Transporting MPLS-O-Ethernet-O-MPLS is the best way for Transporting MPLS over another MPLS network. Why not just define a simple MPLS PW? This would save you at least 14 bytes per packet. 

-Shahram
 

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--NextPart

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts 
directories.
This draft is a work item of the Multiprotocol Label Switching Working Group of the IETF.

	Title		: Encapsulation of MPLS over Layer 2 Tunneling Protocol Version 3
	Author(s)	: M. Townsley, et al.
	Filename	: draft-ietf-mpls-over-l2tpv3-02.txt
	Pages		: 12
	Date		: 2006-11-7
	
The Layer 2 Tunneling Protocol, Version 3, (L2TPv3) defines a
   protocol for tunneling a variety of payload types over IP networks.
   This document defines how to carry an MPLS label stack and its
   payload over the L2TPv3 data encapsulation.  This enables an
   application which traditionally requires an MPLS-enabled core network
   to utilize an L2TPv3 encapsulation over an IP network instead.

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_______________________________________________
mpls mailing list
mpls@lists.ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls

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From:	"questions regarding" <yvvsvaetadm@cndata.com>
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D4>As discussion starter in for questions =
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maybe day is help.<BR>Slower still relatively of normal of with of lots=20
around!<BR>Logged inpages am Index raquo in Tuning slowly ben is =
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tyler From re.<BR>One better cpu memory!<BR>Realised seemed getting =
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From mpls-bounces@lists.ietf.org Wed Nov 08 15:02:23 2006
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Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 11:55:32 -0800 (PST)
From: Kireeti Kompella <kireeti@juniper.net>
To: LE ROUX Jean-Louis RD-CORE-LAN <jeanlouis.leroux@orange-ftgroup.com>
Subject: Re: [mpls] RE: Comments on draft-leroux-mpls-p2mp-te-bypass-00.txt
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Hi Jean-Louis,

To re-iterate my comment in the WG, in general, node protection, 
whether for p2p or p2mp LSPs, is an order of magnitude less scalable 
than link protection.

I think we should step back at this point, and request SPs and others 
deploying MPLS networks to share with the WG: frequencies of link 
failures, node software failures (node recovers), node failures 
(requires manual intervention), and battery explosions, to give us a 
sense of the importance of continuing the work on node protection.

I realize that some of these figures may be sensitive, but even 
normalized numbers may be useful.

Kireeti.
-------

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From mpls-bounces@lists.ietf.org Wed Nov 08 16:44:16 2006
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From: JP Vasseur <jvasseur@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: [mpls] RE: Comments on draft-leroux-mpls-p2mp-te-bypass-00.txt
Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 16:00:59 -0500
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Hi Kireeti,

thoughts in line

On Nov 8, 2006, at 2:55 PM, Kireeti Kompella wrote:

> Hi Jean-Louis,
>
> To re-iterate my comment in the WG, in general, node protection,  
> whether for p2p or p2mp LSPs, is an order of magnitude less  
> scalable than link protection.
>

Ah well, starting some discussion on a definition of "scalability"  
may quickly become a cumbersome task. Node P undoubtedly requires  
more backup tunnels compared to link protection. Up to a point where  
the number of backup tunnels becomes unreasonable ? Looking a typical  
degree of connectivity, it does not look unreasonable especially with  
Bypass compared to the overall number of primary TE LSPs in most meshes.

> I think we should step back at this point, and request SPs and  
> others deploying MPLS networks to share with the WG: frequencies of  
> link failures, node software failures (node recovers), node  
> failures (requires manual intervention), and battery explosions, to  
> give us a sense of the importance of continuing the work on node  
> protection.
>
> I realize that some of these figures may be sensitive, but even  
> normalized numbers may be useful.
>

Probability of failures is one dimension, the impact in term of  
traffic disruption is another key dimension to take into account.  
Routers may rarely fail compared to links but the impact of such  
failures is usually considerably larger.

JP.

> Kireeti.
> -------
>
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@lists.ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls

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From:	"mean" <ctkdxpyaswl@rima-tde.net>
To: mpls-archive@lists.ietf.org
Subject: openers
Date:	Thu, 9 Nov 2006 00:08:20 +0100
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Sitefree delivered a tailored interests. Marked rpg gaming is community =
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Sportquest Sportsman Sportstyle Sporttrek Sportwing Sportz Stacpak =
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Always really quality on of reccomend different in.
Monsters defeating boss rescuing princess of tasks talk npc. Tonneaus =
Operation Toolboxes Toolkit or misc use.
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License Copyrights is details in registered trademark Wikimedia =
Foundation ecc Vmware!
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Mccartney am Stanley Oasis Clocks relevant entry of removed addresses.
Marked rpg gaming is community am philosophy Examples actively pursued.
Results Hillary Clinton speech df Israeli Eighteen barrage.
Glasstite am Glastep Glostrip go Rhino div Goldenrod.
Grand Grease Gripper Gripster am Groboski Grrreat Creations Halftop is. =
Glasstite am Glastep Glostrip go Rhino div Goldenrod.
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From mpls-bounces@lists.ietf.org Wed Nov 08 19:12:01 2006
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From: Kireeti Kompella <kireeti@juniper.net>
To: JP Vasseur <jvasseur@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: [mpls] RE: Comments on draft-leroux-mpls-p2mp-te-bypass-00.txt
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On Wed, 8 Nov 2006, JP Vasseur wrote:

> Hi Kireeti,
>
> thoughts in line
>
> On Nov 8, 2006, at 2:55 PM, Kireeti Kompella wrote:
>
>> Hi Jean-Louis,
>> 
>> To re-iterate my comment in the WG, in general, node protection, whether 
>> for p2p or p2mp LSPs, is an order of magnitude less scalable than link 
>> protection.
>
> Ah well, starting some discussion on a definition of "scalability" may 
> quickly become a cumbersome task.

I have no intention of starting such a discussion.

> Node P undoubtedly requires more backup 
> tunnels compared to link protection.

That's all I said.  Thanks for agreeing.  Now can we get to the real 
point?

>> I think we should step back at this point, and request SPs and others 
>> deploying MPLS networks to share with the WG: frequencies of link failures, 
>> node software failures (node recovers), node failures (requires manual 
>> intervention), and battery explosions, to give us a sense of the importance 
>> of continuing the work on node protection.

The idea is *not* to start a religious war, or to propose some 
solution or other.  The idea is to get a better understanding of 
failures that really happen in networks.

I would agree with you on another point: the impact (and other 
parameters, like duration, cost of recovery, etc.) are all interesting 
factors.  I'll take as much as SPs are willing to share.

Kireeti.
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Dear Tom,
please find my comments to this document below (extending my question =
asked earlier today):
- in Section 4. Motivation written "In this case, it is commonly =
desirable for providers to NOT distribute the IP addresses of any of the =
intermediate P routers between PE1 and PE2." I think that not =
distributing addresses of intermediate routers would not contribute to =
the problem addressed in the document. Perhaps it was meant to state =
that addresses of LSP LERs, PE1 and PE2, might be not advertised into =
other provider's AS.=20
- further in Section 4 said "However, because the address of PE1 is =
actually private to AS1 by virtue of not being distributed by ASBR1 into =
AS2, the P router cannot correctly forward the reply to PE1." If an AS =
can be characterized as "stub" AS then it is unlikely that its operator =
wants traffic from other ASes to traverse it. If AS, as a whole, is not =
stub but only part of it, e.g. OSPF stub area, then a default route must =
be injected by ABR into the stub area. The default route will provide =
"exit" for intermediate LSR P when it sends LSP Echo Reply message to =
the PE1. Perhaps input from network operators will help to clarify if =
addressed scenario is likely to happen.

Regards,
Greg

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<TITLE>[mpls] draft-nadeau-mpls-interas-lspping-02.txt</TITLE>
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<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Dear Tom,<BR>
please find my comments to this document below (extending my question =
asked earlier today):<BR>
- in Section 4. Motivation written &quot;In this case, it is commonly =
desirable for providers to NOT distribute the IP addresses of any of the =
intermediate P routers between PE1 and PE2.&quot; I think that not =
distributing addresses of intermediate routers would not contribute to =
the problem addressed in the document. Perhaps it was meant to state =
that addresses of LSP LERs, PE1 and PE2, might be not advertised into =
other provider's AS.<BR>
- further in Section 4 said &quot;However, because the address of PE1 is =
actually private to AS1 by virtue of not being distributed by ASBR1 into =
AS2, the P router cannot correctly forward the reply to PE1.&quot; If an =
AS can be characterized as &quot;stub&quot; AS then it is unlikely that =
its operator wants traffic from other ASes to traverse it. If AS, as a =
whole, is not stub but only part of it, e.g. OSPF stub area, then a =
default route must be injected by ABR into the stub area. The default =
route will provide &quot;exit&quot; for intermediate LSR P when it sends =
LSP Echo Reply message to the PE1. Perhaps input from network operators =
will help to clarify if addressed scenario is likely to happen.<BR>
<BR>
Regards,<BR>
Greg</FONT>
</P>

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_______________________________________________
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------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C70411.84E16E70--




From mpls-bounces@lists.ietf.org Thu Nov 09 11:55:02 2006
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Subject: RE: [mpls] RE: Comments on draft-leroux-mpls-p2mp-te-bypass-00.txt
Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 11:48:39 -0500
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Thread-Topic: [mpls] RE: Comments on draft-leroux-mpls-p2mp-te-bypass-00.txt
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From: <Mazen.Khaddam@cox.com>
To: <kireeti@juniper.net>,
	<jeanlouis.leroux@orange-ftgroup.com>
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Here at Cox, our BB is fully meshed with of TE LSPs between our
core-edge routers with link protection. Based on our history, we have
not seen a node failure yet.

-----Original Message-----
From: Kireeti Kompella [mailto:kireeti@juniper.net]=20
Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 2:56 PM
To: LE ROUX Jean-Louis RD-CORE-LAN
Cc: mpls@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [mpls] RE: Comments on
draft-leroux-mpls-p2mp-te-bypass-00.txt

Hi Jean-Louis,

To re-iterate my comment in the WG, in general, node protection,=20
whether for p2p or p2mp LSPs, is an order of magnitude less scalable=20
than link protection.

I think we should step back at this point, and request SPs and others=20
deploying MPLS networks to share with the WG: frequencies of link=20
failures, node software failures (node recovers), node failures=20
(requires manual intervention), and battery explosions, to give us a=20
sense of the importance of continuing the work on node protection.

I realize that some of these figures may be sensitive, but even=20
normalized numbers may be useful.

Kireeti.
-------

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Subject: RE: [mpls] RE: Comments on draft-leroux-mpls-p2mp-te-bypass-00.txt
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From: "HEMIGE Venu" <Venu.Hemige@alcatel.com>
To: "Kireeti Kompella" <kireeti@juniper.net>,
	"LE ROUX Jean-Louis RD-CORE-LAN" <jeanlouis.leroux@orange-ftgroup.com>
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Hi Jean-Louis,

I agree with Kireeti that node protection is several degrees more
complex, definitely in the case of P2MP LSPs. However, I am not so sure
of the efficiency of even link protection for P2MP LSP traffic. The
bypass tunnel for a protected link may be established over another link
or set of links behind which there are leaves of the P2MP LSP. So when
the protected link fails, there would be two copies of the traffic
forwarded over such links. Isn't that also a concern very similar to
what you are trying to solve in this draft for node protection?

Regards,
-Venu

=20

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kireeti Kompella [mailto:kireeti@juniper.net]=20
> Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 11:56 AM
> To: LE ROUX Jean-Louis RD-CORE-LAN
> Cc: mpls@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [mpls] RE: Comments on=20
> draft-leroux-mpls-p2mp-te-bypass-00.txt
>=20
> Hi Jean-Louis,
>=20
> To re-iterate my comment in the WG, in general, node protection,=20
> whether for p2p or p2mp LSPs, is an order of magnitude less scalable=20
> than link protection.
>=20
> I think we should step back at this point, and request SPs and others=20
> deploying MPLS networks to share with the WG: frequencies of link=20
> failures, node software failures (node recovers), node failures=20
> (requires manual intervention), and battery explosions, to give us a=20
> sense of the importance of continuing the work on node protection.
>=20
> I realize that some of these figures may be sensitive, but even=20
> normalized numbers may be useful.
>=20
> Kireeti.
> -------
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@lists.ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>=20

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From mpls-bounces@lists.ietf.org Thu Nov 09 12:17:06 2006
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Subject: RE: [mpls] RE: Comments on draft-leroux-mpls-p2mp-te-bypass-00.txt
Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 18:13:40 +0100
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From: "LE ROUX Jean-Louis RD-CORE-LAN" <jeanlouis.leroux@orange-ftgroup.com>
To: "Kireeti Kompella" <kireeti@juniper.net>
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Hi Kireeti,=20

Please see in-line

> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : Kireeti Kompella [mailto:kireeti@juniper.net]=20
> Envoy=E9 : mercredi 8 novembre 2006 20:56
> =C0 : LE ROUX Jean-Louis RD-CORE-LAN
> Cc : mpls@ietf.org
> Objet : Re: [mpls] RE: Comments on=20
> draft-leroux-mpls-p2mp-te-bypass-00.txt
>=20
> Hi Jean-Louis,
>=20
> To re-iterate my comment in the WG, in general, node=20
> protection, whether for p2p or p2mp LSPs, is an order of=20
> magnitude less scalable than link protection.

You are right. If D is the average node degree, link protection scales =
as 0(D) and node protection scales as 0(D^2)...=20

>=20
> I think we should step back at this point, and request SPs=20
> and others deploying MPLS networks to share with the WG:=20
> frequencies of link failures, node software failures (node=20
> recovers), node failures (requires manual intervention), and=20
> battery explosions, to give us a sense of the importance of=20
> continuing the work on node protection.

I know several SPs, including Orange, who deployed FRR node protection =
for P2P LSPs,
and want the same level of protection for P2MP LSPs, particularly for TV =
broadcasting.

By the way I don't think that SPs are likely to share failure occurrence =
frequencies in the IETF, these are critical figures...

The approach sounds actually a bit surprising to me: The IETF worked on =
P2P FRR node protection, it has been implemented, deployed, SPs are =
happy with this feature. And now you want to step back as P2MP node =
protection may be a bit more complex...

Note that P2MP node protection may rely on a single P2MP Bypass per PLR, =
whose set of Leaf LSRs equals the set of PLR NNHOP, (ie a superset of =
the protected P2MP LSP downstream LSRs). So it can scale as P2P node =
protection...

>=20
> I realize that some of these figures may be sensitive,=20

YES :-)

>but=20
> even normalized numbers may be useful.

The fact that link failure frequency is an order of magnitude higher =
than node failure frequency, does definitely not imply that we don't =
need node protection.=20

Best Regards,

JL


>=20
> Kireeti.
> -------
>=20

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Subject: RE: [mpls] RE: Comments on draft-leroux-mpls-p2mp-te-bypass-00.txt
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From: "LE ROUX Jean-Louis RD-CORE-LAN" <jeanlouis.leroux@orange-ftgroup.com>
To: "HEMIGE Venu" <Venu.Hemige@alcatel.com>,
	"Kireeti Kompella" <kireeti@juniper.net>
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Hi Venu

Think about the protection of a branch node with N downstream LSRs.
If you rely on P2P Bypass tunnels, you end up with N times the traffic =
on shared bypass links during failure...=20
I can show you operational network topologies where N =3D 50, and you =
would end up with 50 times the traffic on shared links. For the sake of =
illustration, to protect a 2G TV traffic, you would need 100G capacity =
to backup the traffic! no comments...

The situation is not the same with link protection, as you can rely on a =
single P2P Bypass, and there is no traffic replication at all.

Best Regards,

JL

> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : HEMIGE Venu [mailto:Venu.Hemige@alcatel.com]=20
> Envoy=E9 : jeudi 9 novembre 2006 17:57
> =C0 : Kireeti Kompella; LE ROUX Jean-Louis RD-CORE-LAN
> Cc : mpls@ietf.org
> Objet : RE: [mpls] RE: Comments on=20
> draft-leroux-mpls-p2mp-te-bypass-00.txt
>=20
>=20
> Hi Jean-Louis,
>=20
> I agree with Kireeti that node protection is several degrees=20
> more complex, definitely in the case of P2MP LSPs. However, I=20
> am not so sure of the efficiency of even link protection for=20
> P2MP LSP traffic. The bypass tunnel for a protected link may=20
> be established over another link or set of links behind which=20
> there are leaves of the P2MP LSP. So when the protected link=20
> fails, there would be two copies of the traffic forwarded=20
> over such links. Isn't that also a concern very similar to=20
> what you are trying to solve in this draft for node protection?
>=20
> Regards,
> -Venu
>=20
> =20
>=20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Kireeti Kompella [mailto:kireeti@juniper.net]
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 11:56 AM
> > To: LE ROUX Jean-Louis RD-CORE-LAN
> > Cc: mpls@ietf.org
> > Subject: Re: [mpls] RE: Comments on
> > draft-leroux-mpls-p2mp-te-bypass-00.txt
> >=20
> > Hi Jean-Louis,
> >=20
> > To re-iterate my comment in the WG, in general, node protection,=20
> > whether for p2p or p2mp LSPs, is an order of magnitude less=20
> scalable=20
> > than link protection.
> >=20
> > I think we should step back at this point, and request SPs=20
> and others=20
> > deploying MPLS networks to share with the WG: frequencies of link=20
> > failures, node software failures (node recovers), node failures=20
> > (requires manual intervention), and battery explosions, to=20
> give us a=20
> > sense of the importance of continuing the work on node protection.
> >=20
> > I realize that some of these figures may be sensitive, but even=20
> > normalized numbers may be useful.
> >=20
> > Kireeti.
> > -------
> >=20
> > _______________________________________________
> > mpls mailing list
> > mpls@lists.ietf.org
> > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
> >=20
>=20

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From: Kireeti Kompella <kireeti@juniper.net>
To: LE ROUX Jean-Louis RD-CORE-LAN <jeanlouis.leroux@orange-ftgroup.com>
Subject: RE: [mpls] RE: Comments on draft-leroux-mpls-p2mp-te-bypass-00.txt
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On Thu, 9 Nov 2006, LE ROUX Jean-Louis RD-CORE-LAN wrote:

> Hi Kireeti,
>
> Please see in-line

Thanks for your comments.

> The approach sounds actually a bit surprising to me: The IETF worked 
> on P2P FRR node protection, it has been implemented, deployed, SPs 
> are happy with this feature. And now you want to step back as P2MP 
> node protection may be a bit more complex...

Well, I had the same opinion for p2p; in retrospect, I wish I had 
raised the point then.  P2MP just makes this a bit more complex.

But, to repeat, I'm not against node protection.  I just want 
validation from SPs that the additional complexity etc. of node 
protection is required.  You said yes; Mazen said no.  Others have yet 
to speak.  If SPs were to themselves step back and reconsider how they 
really want to protect nodes, that would be a bonus.

Finally, this is not a call for consensus, just a request for 
information.  Whether or not we work on this depends on the WG chairs, 
which I am not :-)

Kireeti.
-------

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From: "HEMIGE Venu" <Venu.Hemige@alcatel.com>
To: "LE ROUX Jean-Louis RD-CORE-LAN" <jeanlouis.leroux@orange-ftgroup.com>,
	"Kireeti Kompella" <kireeti@juniper.net>
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Hi John-Louis,

Please see comments inline:=20

> -----Original Message-----
> From: LE ROUX Jean-Louis RD-CORE-LAN=20
> [mailto:jeanlouis.leroux@orange-ftgroup.com]=20
> Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 10:12 AM
> To: HEMIGE Venu; Kireeti Kompella
> Cc: mpls@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [mpls] RE: Comments on=20
> draft-leroux-mpls-p2mp-te-bypass-00.txt
>=20
> Hi Venu
>=20
> Think about the protection of a branch node with N downstream LSRs.
> If you rely on P2P Bypass tunnels, you end up with N times=20
> the traffic on shared bypass links during failure...=20
> I can show you operational network topologies where N =3D 50,=20
> and you would end up with 50 times the traffic on shared=20
> links. For the sake of illustration, to protect a 2G TV=20
> traffic, you would need 100G capacity to backup the traffic!=20
> no comments...
>=20

Agreed.

> The situation is not the same with link protection, as you=20
> can rely on a single P2P Bypass, and there is no traffic=20
> replication at all.
>

Let's say a branch node R1 has two downstream LSR1 R2 and R3 on a P2MP =
tree. To protect the link between R1 and R2, the p2p bypass tunnel may =
go through R3. In the event of the R1-R2 link failure, traffic from R1 =
to R2 will be forwarded via the bypass tunnel. But since R3 is also a =
downstream LSR to R1, traffic is forwarded normally on R1-R3 also. So =
there are two copies of the multicast traffic on R1-R3. Now, I agree =
that the situation is not as bad as that for node protection - there =
will be atmost two copies. But that is still an issue, isnt it? Your =
draft would solve this issue if you apply it to P2MP link protection as =
well. But the complexity would be the same as that for node protection.

Regards,
-Venu

>=20
> > -----Message d'origine-----
> > De : HEMIGE Venu [mailto:Venu.Hemige@alcatel.com]=20
> > Envoy=E9 : jeudi 9 novembre 2006 17:57
> > =C0 : Kireeti Kompella; LE ROUX Jean-Louis RD-CORE-LAN
> > Cc : mpls@ietf.org
> > Objet : RE: [mpls] RE: Comments on=20
> > draft-leroux-mpls-p2mp-te-bypass-00.txt
> >=20
> >=20
> > Hi Jean-Louis,
> >=20
> > I agree with Kireeti that node protection is several degrees=20
> > more complex, definitely in the case of P2MP LSPs. However, I=20
> > am not so sure of the efficiency of even link protection for=20
> > P2MP LSP traffic. The bypass tunnel for a protected link may=20
> > be established over another link or set of links behind which=20
> > there are leaves of the P2MP LSP. So when the protected link=20
> > fails, there would be two copies of the traffic forwarded=20
> > over such links. Isn't that also a concern very similar to=20
> > what you are trying to solve in this draft for node protection?
> >=20
> > Regards,
> > -Venu
> >=20
> > =20
> >=20
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Kireeti Kompella [mailto:kireeti@juniper.net]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 11:56 AM
> > > To: LE ROUX Jean-Louis RD-CORE-LAN
> > > Cc: mpls@ietf.org
> > > Subject: Re: [mpls] RE: Comments on
> > > draft-leroux-mpls-p2mp-te-bypass-00.txt
> > >=20
> > > Hi Jean-Louis,
> > >=20
> > > To re-iterate my comment in the WG, in general, node protection,=20
> > > whether for p2p or p2mp LSPs, is an order of magnitude less=20
> > scalable=20
> > > than link protection.
> > >=20
> > > I think we should step back at this point, and request SPs=20
> > and others=20
> > > deploying MPLS networks to share with the WG: frequencies of link=20
> > > failures, node software failures (node recovers), node failures=20
> > > (requires manual intervention), and battery explosions, to=20
> > give us a=20
> > > sense of the importance of continuing the work on node protection.
> > >=20
> > > I realize that some of these figures may be sensitive, but even=20
> > > normalized numbers may be useful.
> > >=20
> > > Kireeti.
> > > -------
> > >=20
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > mpls mailing list
> > > mpls@lists.ietf.org
> > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
> > >=20
> >=20
>=20

_______________________________________________
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Subject: RE: [mpls] RE: Comments on draft-leroux-mpls-p2mp-te-bypass-00.txt
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From: "Greg Mirsky" <gmirsky@turinnetworks.com>
To: "LE ROUX Jean-Louis RD-CORE-LAN" <jeanlouis.leroux@orange-ftgroup.com>,
	"HEMIGE Venu" <Venu.Hemige@alcatel.com>,
	"Kireeti Kompella" <kireeti@juniper.net>
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Dear Jean-Lois,
I think that there's no question that using p2p bypass tunnels as node =
protection for a branch LSR doesn't scale well. But how well will scale =
p2mp bypass tunnel for the node protection? I understand Kireeti's =
questions as "Isn't Link Protection is good enough while Node Protection =
is just marginally better"?

Regards,
Greg


-----Original Message-----
From: LE ROUX Jean-Louis RD-CORE-LAN =
[mailto:jeanlouis.leroux@orange-ftgroup.com]
Sent: Thu 11/9/2006 10:12 AM
To: HEMIGE Venu; Kireeti Kompella
Cc: mpls@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [mpls] RE: Comments on =
draft-leroux-mpls-p2mp-te-bypass-00.txt
=20
Hi Venu

Think about the protection of a branch node with N downstream LSRs.
If you rely on P2P Bypass tunnels, you end up with N times the traffic =
on shared bypass links during failure...=20
I can show you operational network topologies where N =3D 50, and you =
would end up with 50 times the traffic on shared links. For the sake of =
illustration, to protect a 2G TV traffic, you would need 100G capacity =
to backup the traffic! no comments...

The situation is not the same with link protection, as you can rely on a =
single P2P Bypass, and there is no traffic replication at all.

Best Regards,

JL

> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : HEMIGE Venu [mailto:Venu.Hemige@alcatel.com]=20
> Envoy=E9 : jeudi 9 novembre 2006 17:57
> =C0 : Kireeti Kompella; LE ROUX Jean-Louis RD-CORE-LAN
> Cc : mpls@ietf.org
> Objet : RE: [mpls] RE: Comments on=20
> draft-leroux-mpls-p2mp-te-bypass-00.txt
>=20
>=20
> Hi Jean-Louis,
>=20
> I agree with Kireeti that node protection is several degrees=20
> more complex, definitely in the case of P2MP LSPs. However, I=20
> am not so sure of the efficiency of even link protection for=20
> P2MP LSP traffic. The bypass tunnel for a protected link may=20
> be established over another link or set of links behind which=20
> there are leaves of the P2MP LSP. So when the protected link=20
> fails, there would be two copies of the traffic forwarded=20
> over such links. Isn't that also a concern very similar to=20
> what you are trying to solve in this draft for node protection?
>=20
> Regards,
> -Venu
>=20
> =20
>=20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Kireeti Kompella [mailto:kireeti@juniper.net]
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 11:56 AM
> > To: LE ROUX Jean-Louis RD-CORE-LAN
> > Cc: mpls@ietf.org
> > Subject: Re: [mpls] RE: Comments on
> > draft-leroux-mpls-p2mp-te-bypass-00.txt
> >=20
> > Hi Jean-Louis,
> >=20
> > To re-iterate my comment in the WG, in general, node protection,=20
> > whether for p2p or p2mp LSPs, is an order of magnitude less=20
> scalable=20
> > than link protection.
> >=20
> > I think we should step back at this point, and request SPs=20
> and others=20
> > deploying MPLS networks to share with the WG: frequencies of link=20
> > failures, node software failures (node recovers), node failures=20
> > (requires manual intervention), and battery explosions, to=20
> give us a=20
> > sense of the importance of continuing the work on node protection.
> >=20
> > I realize that some of these figures may be sensitive, but even=20
> > normalized numbers may be useful.
> >=20
> > Kireeti.
> > -------
> >=20
> > _______________________________________________
> > mpls mailing list
> > mpls@lists.ietf.org
> > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
> >=20
>=20

_______________________________________________
mpls mailing list
mpls@lists.ietf.org
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<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Dear Jean-Lois,<BR>
I think that there's no question that using p2p bypass tunnels as node =
protection for a branch LSR doesn't scale well. But how well will scale =
p2mp bypass tunnel for the node protection? I understand Kireeti's =
questions as &quot;Isn't Link Protection is good enough while Node =
Protection is just marginally better&quot;?<BR>
<BR>
Regards,<BR>
Greg<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
-----Original Message-----<BR>
From: LE ROUX Jean-Louis RD-CORE-LAN [<A =
HREF=3D"mailto:jeanlouis.leroux@orange-ftgroup.com">mailto:jeanlouis.lero=
ux@orange-ftgroup.com</A>]<BR>
Sent: Thu 11/9/2006 10:12 AM<BR>
To: HEMIGE Venu; Kireeti Kompella<BR>
Cc: mpls@ietf.org<BR>
Subject: RE: [mpls] RE: Comments on =
draft-leroux-mpls-p2mp-te-bypass-00.txt<BR>
<BR>
Hi Venu<BR>
<BR>
Think about the protection of a branch node with N downstream LSRs.<BR>
If you rely on P2P Bypass tunnels, you end up with N times the traffic =
on shared bypass links during failure...<BR>
I can show you operational network topologies where N =3D 50, and you =
would end up with 50 times the traffic on shared links. For the sake of =
illustration, to protect a 2G TV traffic, you would need 100G capacity =
to backup the traffic! no comments...<BR>
<BR>
The situation is not the same with link protection, as you can rely on a =
single P2P Bypass, and there is no traffic replication at all.<BR>
<BR>
Best Regards,<BR>
<BR>
JL<BR>
<BR>
&gt; -----Message d'origine-----<BR>
&gt; De : HEMIGE Venu [<A =
HREF=3D"mailto:Venu.Hemige@alcatel.com">mailto:Venu.Hemige@alcatel.com</A=
>]<BR>
&gt; Envoy=E9 : jeudi 9 novembre 2006 17:57<BR>
&gt; =C0 : Kireeti Kompella; LE ROUX Jean-Louis RD-CORE-LAN<BR>
&gt; Cc : mpls@ietf.org<BR>
&gt; Objet : RE: [mpls] RE: Comments on<BR>
&gt; draft-leroux-mpls-p2mp-te-bypass-00.txt<BR>
&gt;<BR>
&gt;<BR>
&gt; Hi Jean-Louis,<BR>
&gt;<BR>
&gt; I agree with Kireeti that node protection is several degrees<BR>
&gt; more complex, definitely in the case of P2MP LSPs. However, I<BR>
&gt; am not so sure of the efficiency of even link protection for<BR>
&gt; P2MP LSP traffic. The bypass tunnel for a protected link may<BR>
&gt; be established over another link or set of links behind which<BR>
&gt; there are leaves of the P2MP LSP. So when the protected link<BR>
&gt; fails, there would be two copies of the traffic forwarded<BR>
&gt; over such links. Isn't that also a concern very similar to<BR>
&gt; what you are trying to solve in this draft for node protection?<BR>
&gt;<BR>
&gt; Regards,<BR>
&gt; -Venu<BR>
&gt;<BR>
&gt;&nbsp;<BR>
&gt;<BR>
&gt; &gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>
&gt; &gt; From: Kireeti Kompella [<A =
HREF=3D"mailto:kireeti@juniper.net">mailto:kireeti@juniper.net</A>]<BR>
&gt; &gt; Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 11:56 AM<BR>
&gt; &gt; To: LE ROUX Jean-Louis RD-CORE-LAN<BR>
&gt; &gt; Cc: mpls@ietf.org<BR>
&gt; &gt; Subject: Re: [mpls] RE: Comments on<BR>
&gt; &gt; draft-leroux-mpls-p2mp-te-bypass-00.txt<BR>
&gt; &gt;<BR>
&gt; &gt; Hi Jean-Louis,<BR>
&gt; &gt;<BR>
&gt; &gt; To re-iterate my comment in the WG, in general, node =
protection,<BR>
&gt; &gt; whether for p2p or p2mp LSPs, is an order of magnitude =
less<BR>
&gt; scalable<BR>
&gt; &gt; than link protection.<BR>
&gt; &gt;<BR>
&gt; &gt; I think we should step back at this point, and request SPs<BR>
&gt; and others<BR>
&gt; &gt; deploying MPLS networks to share with the WG: frequencies of =
link<BR>
&gt; &gt; failures, node software failures (node recovers), node =
failures<BR>
&gt; &gt; (requires manual intervention), and battery explosions, to<BR>
&gt; give us a<BR>
&gt; &gt; sense of the importance of continuing the work on node =
protection.<BR>
&gt; &gt;<BR>
&gt; &gt; I realize that some of these figures may be sensitive, but =
even<BR>
&gt; &gt; normalized numbers may be useful.<BR>
&gt; &gt;<BR>
&gt; &gt; Kireeti.<BR>
&gt; &gt; -------<BR>
&gt; &gt;<BR>
&gt; &gt; _______________________________________________<BR>
&gt; &gt; mpls mailing list<BR>
&gt; &gt; mpls@lists.ietf.org<BR>
&gt; &gt; <A =
HREF=3D"https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls">https://www1.ietf.or=
g/mailman/listinfo/mpls</A><BR>
&gt; &gt;<BR>
&gt;<BR>
<BR>
_______________________________________________<BR>
mpls mailing list<BR>
mpls@lists.ietf.org<BR>
<A =
HREF=3D"https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls">https://www1.ietf.or=
g/mailman/listinfo/mpls</A><BR>
<BR>
</FONT>
</P>

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Subject: RE: [mpls] RE: Comments on draft-leroux-mpls-p2mp-te-bypass-00.txt
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From: "LE ROUX Jean-Louis RD-CORE-LAN" <jeanlouis.leroux@orange-ftgroup.com>
To: "HEMIGE Venu" <Venu.Hemige@alcatel.com>,
	"Kireeti Kompella" <kireeti@juniper.net>
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Hi Venu,=20

> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : HEMIGE Venu [mailto:Venu.Hemige@alcatel.com]=20
> Envoy=E9 : jeudi 9 novembre 2006 19:29
> =C0 : LE ROUX Jean-Louis RD-CORE-LAN; Kireeti Kompella
> Cc : mpls@ietf.org
> Objet : RE: [mpls] RE: Comments on=20
> draft-leroux-mpls-p2mp-te-bypass-00.txt
>=20
>=20
> Hi John-Louis,
>=20
> Please see comments inline:=20
>=20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: LE ROUX Jean-Louis RD-CORE-LAN
> > [mailto:jeanlouis.leroux@orange-ftgroup.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 10:12 AM
> > To: HEMIGE Venu; Kireeti Kompella
> > Cc: mpls@ietf.org
> > Subject: RE: [mpls] RE: Comments on
> > draft-leroux-mpls-p2mp-te-bypass-00.txt
> >=20
> > Hi Venu
> >=20
> > Think about the protection of a branch node with N downstream LSRs.
> > If you rely on P2P Bypass tunnels, you end up with N times=20
> the traffic=20
> > on shared bypass links during failure...
> > I can show you operational network topologies where N =3D 50, and =
you=20
> > would end up with 50 times the traffic on shared links. For=20
> the sake=20
> > of illustration, to protect a 2G TV traffic, you would need 100G=20
> > capacity to backup the traffic!
> > no comments...
> >=20
>=20
> Agreed.
>=20
> > The situation is not the same with link protection, as you=20
> can rely on=20
> > a single P2P Bypass, and there is no traffic replication at all.
> >
>=20
> Let's say a branch node R1 has two downstream LSR1 R2 and R3=20
> on a P2MP tree. To protect the link between R1 and R2, the=20
> p2p bypass tunnel may go through R3. In the event of the=20
> R1-R2 link failure, traffic from R1 to R2 will be forwarded=20
> via the bypass tunnel. But since R3 is also a downstream LSR=20
> to R1, traffic is forwarded normally on R1-R3 also. So there=20
> are two copies of the multicast traffic on R1-R3.=20

OK, I get your point.=20

> Now, I=20
> agree that the situation is not as bad as that for node=20
> protection - there will be atmost two copies. But that is=20
> still an issue, isnt it?=20

Yes it is.

>Your draft would solve this issue if=20
> you apply it to P2MP link protection as well.=20

Yes, it would solve this issue. A P2MP Bypass may indeed be used to =
protect a link downstream to a branch LSR. In case of failure, the =
traffic would be tunneled within the P2MP Bypass towards all downstream =
LSRs, and there would be only a single copy of the traffic on a =
downstream link.

Thanks a lot for highlighting this point, IMO this significantly =
reinforces the needs for P2MP Bypass tunnels.

Best Regards,

JL

>=20
> Regards,
> -Venu
>=20
> >=20
> > > -----Message d'origine-----
> > > De : HEMIGE Venu [mailto:Venu.Hemige@alcatel.com] Envoy=E9=20
> : jeudi 9=20
> > > novembre 2006 17:57 =C0 : Kireeti Kompella; LE ROUX Jean-Louis=20
> > > RD-CORE-LAN Cc : mpls@ietf.org Objet : RE: [mpls] RE: Comments on=20
> > > draft-leroux-mpls-p2mp-te-bypass-00.txt
> > >=20
> > >=20
> > > Hi Jean-Louis,
> > >=20
> > > I agree with Kireeti that node protection is several degrees more=20
> > > complex, definitely in the case of P2MP LSPs. However, I=20
> am not so=20
> > > sure of the efficiency of even link protection for P2MP=20
> LSP traffic.=20
> > > The bypass tunnel for a protected link may be established over=20
> > > another link or set of links behind which there are leaves of the=20
> > > P2MP LSP. So when the protected link fails, there would be two=20
> > > copies of the traffic forwarded over such links. Isn't=20
> that also a=20
> > > concern very similar to what you are trying to solve in=20
> this draft=20
> > > for node protection?
> > >=20
> > > Regards,
> > > -Venu
> > >=20
> > > =20
> > >=20
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Kireeti Kompella [mailto:kireeti@juniper.net]
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 11:56 AM
> > > > To: LE ROUX Jean-Louis RD-CORE-LAN
> > > > Cc: mpls@ietf.org
> > > > Subject: Re: [mpls] RE: Comments on=20
> > > > draft-leroux-mpls-p2mp-te-bypass-00.txt
> > > >=20
> > > > Hi Jean-Louis,
> > > >=20
> > > > To re-iterate my comment in the WG, in general, node=20
> protection,=20
> > > > whether for p2p or p2mp LSPs, is an order of magnitude less
> > > scalable
> > > > than link protection.
> > > >=20
> > > > I think we should step back at this point, and request SPs
> > > and others
> > > > deploying MPLS networks to share with the WG:=20
> frequencies of link=20
> > > > failures, node software failures (node recovers), node failures=20
> > > > (requires manual intervention), and battery explosions, to
> > > give us a
> > > > sense of the importance of continuing the work on node=20
> protection.
> > > >=20
> > > > I realize that some of these figures may be sensitive, but even=20
> > > > normalized numbers may be useful.
> > > >=20
> > > > Kireeti.
> > > > -------
> > > >=20
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > mpls mailing list
> > > > mpls@lists.ietf.org
> > > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
> > > >=20
> > >=20
> >=20
>=20

_______________________________________________
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https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls



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Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 07:22:04 +1100
Subject: Re: [mpls] RE: Comments on draft-leroux-mpls-p2mp-te-bypass-00.txt
From: Ian Stanley <ian.b.stanley@team.telstra.com>
To: <Mazen.Khaddam@cox.com>, <kireeti@juniper.net>,
	<jeanlouis.leroux@orange-ftgroup.com>
Message-ID: <C179D91C.911C%ian.b.stanley@team.telstra.com>
Thread-Topic: [mpls] RE: Comments on
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All,

We at Telstra have the same arrangements as Cox in terms of redundancy for
our nodes and have not experienced a node failure as yet

Cheers
Ian


On 10/11/06 3:48 AM, "Mazen.Khaddam@cox.com" <Mazen.Khaddam@cox.com>
wrote:Mazen.Khaddam@cox.com

> Here at Cox, our BB is fully meshed with of TE LSPs between our
> core-edge routers with link protection. Based on our history, we have
> not seen a node failure yet.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kireeti Kompella [mailto:kireeti@juniper.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 2:56 PM
> To: LE ROUX Jean-Louis RD-CORE-LAN
> Cc: mpls@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [mpls] RE: Comments on
> draft-leroux-mpls-p2mp-te-bypass-00.txt
> 
> Hi Jean-Louis,
> 
> To re-iterate my comment in the WG, in general, node protection,
> whether for p2p or p2mp LSPs, is an order of magnitude less scalable
> than link protection.
> 
> I think we should step back at this point, and request SPs and others
> deploying MPLS networks to share with the WG: frequencies of link
> failures, node software failures (node recovers), node failures
> (requires manual intervention), and battery explosions, to give us a
> sense of the importance of continuing the work on node protection.
> 
> I realize that some of these figures may be sensitive, but even
> normalized numbers may be useful.
> 
> Kireeti.
> -------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@lists.ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
> 
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@lists.ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
> 


 
Regards,
Ian Stanley
National Manager
Architecture & Design
IP & Data
Core Networks | Engineering
02 9396 8508
0419 257221


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<HTML>
<HEAD>
<TITLE>Re: [mpls] RE: Comments on draft-leroux-mpls-p2mp-te-bypass-00.txt</=
TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
<FONT FACE=3D"Comic Sans MS, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE=3D'font-siz=
e:12.0px'>All,<BR>
<BR>
We at Telstra have the same arrangements as Cox in terms of redundancy for =
our nodes and have not experienced a node failure as yet<BR>
<BR>
Cheers<BR>
Ian<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
On 10/11/06 3:48 AM, &quot;Mazen.Khaddam@cox.com&quot; &lt;Mazen.Khaddam@co=
x.com&gt; wrote:Mazen.Khaddam@cox.com<BR>
<BR>
</SPAN></FONT><BLOCKQUOTE><FONT FACE=3D"Comic Sans MS, Verdana, Helvetica, Ar=
ial"><SPAN STYLE=3D'font-size:12.0px'>Here at Cox, our BB is fully meshed with=
 of TE LSPs between our<BR>
core-edge routers with link protection. Based on our history, we have<BR>
not seen a node failure yet.<BR>
<BR>
-----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Kireeti Kompella [<a href=3D"mailto:kireeti@juniper.net]">mailto:kireet=
i@juniper.net]</a><BR>
Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 2:56 PM<BR>
To: LE ROUX Jean-Louis RD-CORE-LAN<BR>
Cc: mpls@ietf.org<BR>
Subject: Re: [mpls] RE: Comments on<BR>
draft-leroux-mpls-p2mp-te-bypass-00.txt<BR>
<BR>
Hi Jean-Louis,<BR>
<BR>
To re-iterate my comment in the WG, in general, node protection,<BR>
whether for p2p or p2mp LSPs, is an order of magnitude less scalable<BR>
than link protection.<BR>
<BR>
I think we should step back at this point, and request SPs and others<BR>
deploying MPLS networks to share with the WG: frequencies of link<BR>
failures, node software failures (node recovers), node failures<BR>
(requires manual intervention), and battery explosions, to give us a<BR>
sense of the importance of continuing the work on node protection.<BR>
<BR>
I realize that some of these figures may be sensitive, but even<BR>
normalized numbers may be useful.<BR>
<BR>
Kireeti.<BR>
-------<BR>
<BR>
_______________________________________________<BR>
mpls mailing list<BR>
mpls@lists.ietf.org<BR>
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls<BR>
<BR>
_______________________________________________<BR>
mpls mailing list<BR>
mpls@lists.ietf.org<BR>
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls<BR>
<BR>
</SPAN></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE><FONT FACE=3D"Comic Sans MS, Verdana, Helvetica, A=
rial"><SPAN STYLE=3D'font-size:12.0px'><BR>
<BR>
</SPAN></FONT><SPAN STYLE=3D'font-size:12.0px'><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Helvetica=
, Arial"> <BR>
</FONT></SPAN><FONT SIZE=3D"2"><FONT FACE=3D"Comic Sans MS, Verdana, Helvetica,=
 Arial"><SPAN STYLE=3D'font-size:10.0px'>Regards,<BR>
Ian Stanley<BR>
National Manager<BR>
Architecture &amp; Design<BR>
IP &amp; Data<BR>
Core Networks | Engineering<BR>
02 9396 8508<BR>
0419 257221</SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT FACE=3D"Comic Sans MS, Verdana, Helveti=
ca, Arial"><SPAN STYLE=3D'font-size:12.0px'><BR>
</SPAN></FONT>
</BODY>
</HTML>


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=20

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kireeti Kompella [mailto:kireeti@juniper.net]=20
> Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 1:21 PM
> To: LE ROUX Jean-Louis RD-CORE-LAN
> Cc: mpls@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [mpls] RE: Comments on=20
> draft-leroux-mpls-p2mp-te-bypass-00.txt
>=20
> On Thu, 9 Nov 2006, LE ROUX Jean-Louis RD-CORE-LAN wrote:
>=20
> > Hi Kireeti,
> >
> > Please see in-line
>=20
> Thanks for your comments.
>=20
> > The approach sounds actually a bit surprising to me: The=20
> IETF worked=20
> > on P2P FRR node protection, it has been implemented,=20
> deployed, SPs are=20
> > happy with this feature. And now you want to step back as P2MP node=20
> > protection may be a bit more complex...
>=20
> Well, I had the same opinion for p2p; in retrospect, I wish I=20
> had raised the point then.  P2MP just makes this a bit more complex.
>=20
> But, to repeat, I'm not against node protection.  I just want=20
> validation from SPs that the additional complexity etc. of=20
> node protection is required.  You said yes; Mazen said no. =20
> Others have yet to speak. =20

Really, and we closed the P2MP RSVP-TE requirement document and moved it
to an RFC status without hearing SP-es!=20

The requirement document for P2MP LSP
(http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4461.txt?number=3D4461) states node =
protection
as a requirement. You can play with the wording in the RFC but it does
state the requirement for supporting options in RFC 4090.=20

IMO bandwidth inefficiency of P2P backup tunnels for node protection for
P2MP LSP-es is a major limitation. In this respect, I am in favor of
this document.=20

Thanks

Regards... Zafar=20

> If SPs were to themselves step=20
> back and reconsider how they really want to protect nodes,=20
> that would be a bonus.
>=20
> Finally, this is not a call for consensus, just a request for=20
> information.  Whether or not we work on this depends on the=20
> WG chairs, which I am not :-)
>=20
> Kireeti.
> -------
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@lists.ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>=20

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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts 
directories.
This draft is a work item of the Multiprotocol Label Switching Working Group of the IETF.

	Title		: Encapsulation of MPLS over Layer 2 Tunneling Protocol Version 3
	Author(s)	: M. Townsley, et al.
	Filename	: draft-ietf-mpls-over-l2tpv3-03.txt
	Pages		: 12
	Date		: 2006-11-9
	
The Layer 2 Tunneling Protocol, Version 3, (L2TPv3) defines a
   protocol for tunneling a variety of payload types over IP networks.
   This document defines how to carry an MPLS label stack and its
   payload over the L2TPv3 data encapsulation.  This enables an
   application which traditionally requires an MPLS-enabled core network
   to utilize an L2TPv3 encapsulation over an IP network instead.

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From mpls-bounces@lists.ietf.org Thu Nov 09 20:10:08 2006
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Subject: RE: [mpls] RE: Comments on draft-leroux-mpls-p2mp-te-bypass-00.txt
Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 19:02:23 -0600
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From: "HEMIGE Venu" <Venu.Hemige@alcatel.com>
To: "LE ROUX Jean-Louis RD-CORE-LAN" <jeanlouis.leroux@orange-ftgroup.com>,
	"Kireeti Kompella" <kireeti@juniper.net>
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Hi John-Louis,

<...deleted...>

> >=20
> > > The situation is not the same with link protection, as you=20
> > can rely on=20
> > > a single P2P Bypass, and there is no traffic replication at all.
> > >
> >=20
> > Let's say a branch node R1 has two downstream LSR1 R2 and R3=20
> > on a P2MP tree. To protect the link between R1 and R2, the=20
> > p2p bypass tunnel may go through R3. In the event of the=20
> > R1-R2 link failure, traffic from R1 to R2 will be forwarded=20
> > via the bypass tunnel. But since R3 is also a downstream LSR=20
> > to R1, traffic is forwarded normally on R1-R3 also. So there=20
> > are two copies of the multicast traffic on R1-R3.=20
>=20
> OK, I get your point.=20
>=20
> > Now, I=20
> > agree that the situation is not as bad as that for node=20
> > protection - there will be atmost two copies. But that is=20
> > still an issue, isnt it?=20
>=20
> Yes it is.

I was afraid so too.

>=20
> >Your draft would solve this issue if=20
> > you apply it to P2MP link protection as well.=20
>=20
> Yes, it would solve this issue. A P2MP Bypass may indeed be=20
> used to protect a link downstream to a branch LSR. In case of=20
> failure, the traffic would be tunneled within the P2MP Bypass=20
> towards all downstream LSRs, and there would be only a single=20
> copy of the traffic on a downstream link.
>=20

I think it can still be very tricky to achieve "single-copy" FRR even if =
we use P2MP bypass tunnels (for either node or link protection). In the =
above example, let's say R2, R3 and R4 are downstream of R1. And assume =
that R5 and R6 are downstream to R2 and are part of the P2MP tree. So =
the P2MP bypass tunnel would need to have {R5, R6} as the leaves of the =
P2MP bypass tunnel. In addition, since the bypass tunnel goes through =
R3, R3 will also have to be part of the bypass tunnel. So bypass tunnel =
will have {R3, R5, R6} as leaves. Only then, can we guarantee a =
single-copy FRR. When the R1-R2 link is functional, R1 has to switch the =
P2MP traffic to {R2, R3, R4}. When the R1-R2 link fails or when the node =
R2 fails, R1 needs to forward traffic to {Tunnel protecting R2, R4}. =
Note that R3 also needs to be removed from the OIF-list. This can be =
tricky both in the control plane and data plane, but I suppose it can be =
done.

Another worrisome part is the following: In the unicast case, we protect =
a link and can tunnel any unicast traffic for that link onto the bypass =
tunnel. So it is O(1) processing when a link fails. But in the multicast =
case, we will need to make sure that all P2MP trees that will be =
forwarding traffic on the P2MP bypass tunnel do not also forward traffic =
to R3. So the FRR may not be as responsive as it is for unicast.

The above logic would work if the double-copy happens on links connected =
to R1. But if the douple-copy happens because of some remote link in the =
P2MP tree also being a branch of the tree, then I am not sure how that =
can be solved - even with P2MP bypass tunnels. i.e. if the bypass P2MP =
tree has to go through R1-Rx-Ry-Rz and the branch Ry-Rz is also a part =
of the P2MP tree, then I am not sure how we can ensure single-copy =
there.

> Thanks a lot for highlighting this point, IMO this=20
> significantly reinforces the needs for P2MP Bypass tunnels.
>

I agree that for both link and node protection, P2MP bypass is probably =
the right option. So if single-copy FRR is an absolute requirement, then =
I agree that P2MP Bypass tunnels will be needed. But the complexity is =
very high in my opinion.

Regards,
-Venu

>=20
> >=20
> > Regards,
> > -Venu
> >=20
> > >=20
> > > > -----Message d'origine-----
> > > > De : HEMIGE Venu [mailto:Venu.Hemige@alcatel.com] Envoy=E9=20
> > : jeudi 9=20
> > > > novembre 2006 17:57 =C0 : Kireeti Kompella; LE ROUX Jean-Louis=20
> > > > RD-CORE-LAN Cc : mpls@ietf.org Objet : RE: [mpls] RE:=20
> Comments on=20
> > > > draft-leroux-mpls-p2mp-te-bypass-00.txt
> > > >=20
> > > >=20
> > > > Hi Jean-Louis,
> > > >=20
> > > > I agree with Kireeti that node protection is several=20
> degrees more=20
> > > > complex, definitely in the case of P2MP LSPs. However, I=20
> > am not so=20
> > > > sure of the efficiency of even link protection for P2MP=20
> > LSP traffic.=20
> > > > The bypass tunnel for a protected link may be established over=20
> > > > another link or set of links behind which there are=20
> leaves of the=20
> > > > P2MP LSP. So when the protected link fails, there would be two=20
> > > > copies of the traffic forwarded over such links. Isn't=20
> > that also a=20
> > > > concern very similar to what you are trying to solve in=20
> > this draft=20
> > > > for node protection?
> > > >=20
> > > > Regards,
> > > > -Venu
> > > >=20
> > > > =20
> > > >=20
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: Kireeti Kompella [mailto:kireeti@juniper.net]
> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 11:56 AM
> > > > > To: LE ROUX Jean-Louis RD-CORE-LAN
> > > > > Cc: mpls@ietf.org
> > > > > Subject: Re: [mpls] RE: Comments on=20
> > > > > draft-leroux-mpls-p2mp-te-bypass-00.txt
> > > > >=20
> > > > > Hi Jean-Louis,
> > > > >=20
> > > > > To re-iterate my comment in the WG, in general, node=20
> > protection,=20
> > > > > whether for p2p or p2mp LSPs, is an order of magnitude less
> > > > scalable
> > > > > than link protection.
> > > > >=20
> > > > > I think we should step back at this point, and request SPs
> > > > and others
> > > > > deploying MPLS networks to share with the WG:=20
> > frequencies of link=20
> > > > > failures, node software failures (node recovers),=20
> node failures=20
> > > > > (requires manual intervention), and battery explosions, to
> > > > give us a
> > > > > sense of the importance of continuing the work on node=20
> > protection.
> > > > >=20
> > > > > I realize that some of these figures may be=20
> sensitive, but even=20
> > > > > normalized numbers may be useful.
> > > > >=20
> > > > > Kireeti.
> > > > > -------
> > > > >=20
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > mpls mailing list
> > > > > mpls@lists.ietf.org
> > > > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
> > > > >=20
> > > >=20
> > >=20
> >=20
>=20

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From mpls-bounces@lists.ietf.org Fri Nov 10 05:35:34 2006
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Subject: RE: [mpls] RE: Comments on draft-leroux-mpls-p2mp-te-bypass-00.txt
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 11:27:56 +0100
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Thread-Topic: [mpls] RE: Comments on draft-leroux-mpls-p2mp-te-bypass-00.txt
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From: "LE ROUX Jean-Louis RD-CORE-LAN" <jeanlouis.leroux@orange-ftgroup.com>
To: "HEMIGE Venu" <Venu.Hemige@alcatel.com>,
	"Kireeti Kompella" <kireeti@juniper.net>
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Hi Venu,=20

> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : HEMIGE Venu [mailto:Venu.Hemige@alcatel.com]=20
> Envoy=E9 : vendredi 10 novembre 2006 02:02
> =C0 : LE ROUX Jean-Louis RD-CORE-LAN; Kireeti Kompella
> Cc : mpls@ietf.org
> Objet : RE: [mpls] RE: Comments on=20
> draft-leroux-mpls-p2mp-te-bypass-00.txt
>=20
> Hi John-Louis,
>=20
> <...deleted...>
>=20
> > >=20
> > > > The situation is not the same with link protection, as you
> > > can rely on
> > > > a single P2P Bypass, and there is no traffic replication at all.
> > > >
> > >=20
> > > Let's say a branch node R1 has two downstream LSR1 R2 and R3 on a=20
> > > P2MP tree. To protect the link between R1 and R2, the p2p bypass=20
> > > tunnel may go through R3. In the event of the
> > > R1-R2 link failure, traffic from R1 to R2 will be=20
> forwarded via the=20
> > > bypass tunnel. But since R3 is also a downstream LSR to=20
> R1, traffic=20
> > > is forwarded normally on R1-R3 also. So there are two=20
> copies of the=20
> > > multicast traffic on R1-R3.
> >=20
> > OK, I get your point.=20
> >=20
> > > Now, I
> > > agree that the situation is not as bad as that for node=20
> protection -=20
> > > there will be atmost two copies. But that is still an issue, isnt=20
> > > it?
> >=20
> > Yes it is.
>=20
> I was afraid so too.
>=20
> >=20
> > >Your draft would solve this issue if  you apply it to P2MP link=20
> > >protection as well.
> >=20
> > Yes, it would solve this issue. A P2MP Bypass may indeed be used to=20
> > protect a link downstream to a branch LSR. In case of failure, the=20
> > traffic would be tunneled within the P2MP Bypass towards all=20
> > downstream LSRs, and there would be only a single copy of=20
> the traffic=20
> > on a downstream link.
> >=20
>=20
> I think it can still be very tricky to achieve "single-copy"=20
> FRR even if we use P2MP bypass tunnels (for either node or=20
> link protection). In the above example, let's say R2, R3 and=20
> R4 are downstream of R1. And assume that R5 and R6 are=20
> downstream to R2 and are part of the P2MP tree. So the P2MP=20
> bypass tunnel would need to have {R5, R6} as the leaves of=20
> the P2MP bypass tunnel. In addition, since the bypass tunnel=20
> goes through R3, R3 will also have to be part of the bypass=20
> tunnel. So bypass tunnel will have {R3, R5, R6} as leaves.=20
> Only then, can we guarantee a single-copy FRR. When the R1-R2=20
> link is functional, R1 has to switch the P2MP traffic to {R2,=20
> R3, R4}. When the R1-R2 link fails or when the node R2 fails,=20
> R1 needs to forward traffic to {Tunnel protecting R2, R4}.=20
> Note that R3 also needs to be removed from the OIF-list. This=20
> can be tricky both in the control plane and data plane, but I=20
> suppose it can be done.
>=20
> Another worrisome part is the following: In the unicast case,=20
> we protect a link and can tunnel any unicast traffic for that=20
> link onto the bypass tunnel. So it is O(1) processing when a=20
> link fails. But in the multicast case, we will need to make=20
> sure that all P2MP trees that will be forwarding traffic on=20
> the P2MP bypass tunnel do not also forward traffic to R3. So=20
> the FRR may not be as responsive as it is for unicast.

This is a local implementation issue. You may prepare all backup outputs =
in advance and rely on a clever mechanism (that I won't describe here) =
to avoid any impact on the recovery time.

>=20
> The above logic would work if the double-copy happens on=20
> links connected to R1. But if the douple-copy happens because=20
> of some remote link in the P2MP tree also being a branch of=20
> the tree, then I am not sure how that can be solved - even=20
> with P2MP bypass tunnels. i.e. if the bypass P2MP tree has to=20
> go through R1-Rx-Ry-Rz and the branch Ry-Rz is also a part of=20
> the P2MP tree, then I am not sure how we can ensure single-copy there.

Note that in enough redundant topologies such situation is very unlikely =
to happen.

>=20
> > Thanks a lot for highlighting this point, IMO this significantly=20
> > reinforces the needs for P2MP Bypass tunnels.
> >
>=20
> I agree that for both link and node protection, P2MP bypass=20
> is probably the right option. So if single-copy FRR is an=20
> absolute requirement,=20

Yes it is a strong requirement.

>then I agree that P2MP Bypass tunnels=20
> will be needed. But the complexity is very high in my opinion.

You should mitigate a bit...This is for sure more complex but definitely =
not highly complex IMO.
Anyway, hierarchy and upstream label assignement will also be needed for =
other applications (e.g. MVPN Aggregation)...

Best Regards,

JL

>=20
> Regards,
> -Venu
>=20
> >=20
> > >=20
> > > Regards,
> > > -Venu
> > >=20
> > > >=20
> > > > > -----Message d'origine-----
> > > > > De : HEMIGE Venu [mailto:Venu.Hemige@alcatel.com] Envoy=E9
> > > : jeudi 9
> > > > > novembre 2006 17:57 =C0 : Kireeti Kompella; LE ROUX Jean-Louis =

> > > > > RD-CORE-LAN Cc : mpls@ietf.org Objet : RE: [mpls] RE:
> > Comments on
> > > > > draft-leroux-mpls-p2mp-te-bypass-00.txt
> > > > >=20
> > > > >=20
> > > > > Hi Jean-Louis,
> > > > >=20
> > > > > I agree with Kireeti that node protection is several
> > degrees more
> > > > > complex, definitely in the case of P2MP LSPs. However, I
> > > am not so
> > > > > sure of the efficiency of even link protection for P2MP
> > > LSP traffic.=20
> > > > > The bypass tunnel for a protected link may be=20
> established over=20
> > > > > another link or set of links behind which there are
> > leaves of the
> > > > > P2MP LSP. So when the protected link fails, there=20
> would be two=20
> > > > > copies of the traffic forwarded over such links. Isn't
> > > that also a
> > > > > concern very similar to what you are trying to solve in
> > > this draft
> > > > > for node protection?
> > > > >=20
> > > > > Regards,
> > > > > -Venu
> > > > >=20
> > > > > =20
> > > > >=20
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: Kireeti Kompella [mailto:kireeti@juniper.net]
> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 11:56 AM
> > > > > > To: LE ROUX Jean-Louis RD-CORE-LAN
> > > > > > Cc: mpls@ietf.org
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [mpls] RE: Comments on=20
> > > > > > draft-leroux-mpls-p2mp-te-bypass-00.txt
> > > > > >=20
> > > > > > Hi Jean-Louis,
> > > > > >=20
> > > > > > To re-iterate my comment in the WG, in general, node
> > > protection,
> > > > > > whether for p2p or p2mp LSPs, is an order of magnitude less
> > > > > scalable
> > > > > > than link protection.
> > > > > >=20
> > > > > > I think we should step back at this point, and request SPs
> > > > > and others
> > > > > > deploying MPLS networks to share with the WG:=20
> > > frequencies of link
> > > > > > failures, node software failures (node recovers),
> > node failures
> > > > > > (requires manual intervention), and battery explosions, to
> > > > > give us a
> > > > > > sense of the importance of continuing the work on node
> > > protection.
> > > > > >=20
> > > > > > I realize that some of these figures may be
> > sensitive, but even
> > > > > > normalized numbers may be useful.
> > > > > >=20
> > > > > > Kireeti.
> > > > > > -------
> > > > > >=20
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > mpls mailing list
> > > > > > mpls@lists.ietf.org
> > > > > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
> > > > > >=20
> > > > >=20
> > > >=20
> > >=20
> >=20
>=20

_______________________________________________
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From: JP Vasseur <jvasseur@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: [mpls] RE: Comments on draft-leroux-mpls-p2mp-te-bypass-00.txt
Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 13:26:17 -0500
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On Nov 8, 2006, at 7:06 PM, Kireeti Kompella wrote:

> On Wed, 8 Nov 2006, JP Vasseur wrote:
>
>> Hi Kireeti,
>>
>> thoughts in line
>>
>> On Nov 8, 2006, at 2:55 PM, Kireeti Kompella wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Jean-Louis,
>>> To re-iterate my comment in the WG, in general, node protection,  
>>> whether for p2p or p2mp LSPs, is an order of magnitude less  
>>> scalable than link protection.
>>
>> Ah well, starting some discussion on a definition of "scalability"  
>> may quickly become a cumbersome task.
>
> I have no intention of starting such a discussion.
>

feeling better ;-)

>> Node P undoubtedly requires more backup tunnels compared to link  
>> protection.
>
> That's all I said.  Thanks for agreeing.

I agreed that Node P requires more backup, not to a point that we may  
have scalability issues.

> Now can we get to the real point?
>

Having this debate is just fine. Just one last thing ... if there's  
no issue, why not continue developing protocols supporting node P then ?

>>> I think we should step back at this point, and request SPs and  
>>> others deploying MPLS networks to share with the WG: frequencies  
>>> of link failures, node software failures (node recovers), node  
>>> failures (requires manual intervention), and battery explosions,  
>>> to give us a sense of the importance of continuing the work on  
>>> node protection.
>
> The idea is *not* to start a religious war, or to propose some  
> solution or other.  The idea is to get a better understanding of  
> failures that really happen in networks.
>
> I would agree with you on another point: the impact (and other  
> parameters, like duration, cost of recovery, etc.) are all  
> interesting factors.  I'll take as much as SPs are willing to share.
>

Opinions/Feedback are indeed most welcome here.

Cheers,

JP.

> Kireeti.
> -------

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  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: mpls-archive@lists.ietf.org=20
  To: nuyifzqh@panteratravel.com=20
  Sent: Saturday, November 03:03:08 PM
  Subject: Return tdstyles


  If thats is no biggy highly recommend Reviewed is.
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black"><B>From:</B> <A title=3Dmpls-archive@lists.ietf.org=20
href=3D"mailto:mpls-archive@lists.ietf.org">mpls-archive@lists.ietf.org</=
A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dnuyifzqh@panteratravel.com=20
href=3D"mailto:nuyifzqh@panteratravel.com">nuyifzqh@panteratravel.com</A>=
 </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, November =
03:03:08 PM=20
</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Return tdstyles</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>If thats is no biggy highly recommend =
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enter your=20
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notified when=20
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From mpls-bounces@lists.ietf.org Sat Nov 11 02:42:54 2006
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Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2006 08:35:32 +0100
Subject: Re: [mpls] RE: Comments on draft-leroux-mpls-p2mp-te-bypass-00.txt
From: Peter Tomsu <ptomsu@cisco.com>
To: LE ROUX Jean-Louis RD-CORE-LAN <jeanlouis.leroux@orange-ftgroup.com>,
	HEMIGE Venu <Venu.Hemige@alcatel.com>,
	Kireeti Kompella <kireeti@juniper.net>
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Thread-Topic: [mpls] RE: Comments on
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Well, if topologies are redundant enough, lot of issues will go away

Peter


On 10.11.2006 11:27 Uhr, "LE ROUX Jean-Louis RD-CORE-LAN"
<jeanlouis.leroux@orange-ftgroup.com> wrote:

> Hi Venu,=20
>=20
>> -----Message d'origine-----
>> De : HEMIGE Venu [mailto:Venu.Hemige@alcatel.com]
>> Envoy=E9 : vendredi 10 novembre 2006 02:02
>> =C0 : LE ROUX Jean-Louis RD-CORE-LAN; Kireeti Kompella
>> Cc : mpls@ietf.org
>> Objet : RE: [mpls] RE: Comments on
>> draft-leroux-mpls-p2mp-te-bypass-00.txt
>>=20
>> Hi John-Louis,
>>=20
>> <...deleted...>
>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>> The situation is not the same with link protection, as you
>>>> can rely on
>>>>> a single P2P Bypass, and there is no traffic replication at all.
>>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> Let's say a branch node R1 has two downstream LSR1 R2 and R3 on a
>>>> P2MP tree. To protect the link between R1 and R2, the p2p bypass
>>>> tunnel may go through R3. In the event of the
>>>> R1-R2 link failure, traffic from R1 to R2 will be
>> forwarded via the
>>>> bypass tunnel. But since R3 is also a downstream LSR to
>> R1, traffic=20
>>>> is forwarded normally on R1-R3 also. So there are two
>> copies of the=20
>>>> multicast traffic on R1-R3.
>>>=20
>>> OK, I get your point.
>>>=20
>>>> Now, I
>>>> agree that the situation is not as bad as that for node
>> protection -=20
>>>> there will be atmost two copies. But that is still an issue, isnt
>>>> it?
>>>=20
>>> Yes it is.
>>=20
>> I was afraid so too.
>>=20
>>>=20
>>>> Your draft would solve this issue if  you apply it to P2MP link
>>>> protection as well.
>>>=20
>>> Yes, it would solve this issue. A P2MP Bypass may indeed be used to
>>> protect a link downstream to a branch LSR. In case of failure, the
>>> traffic would be tunneled within the P2MP Bypass towards all
>>> downstream LSRs, and there would be only a single copy of
>> the traffic=20
>>> on a downstream link.
>>>=20
>>=20
>> I think it can still be very tricky to achieve "single-copy"
>> FRR even if we use P2MP bypass tunnels (for either node or
>> link protection). In the above example, let's say R2, R3 and
>> R4 are downstream of R1. And assume that R5 and R6 are
>> downstream to R2 and are part of the P2MP tree. So the P2MP
>> bypass tunnel would need to have {R5, R6} as the leaves of
>> the P2MP bypass tunnel. In addition, since the bypass tunnel
>> goes through R3, R3 will also have to be part of the bypass
>> tunnel. So bypass tunnel will have {R3, R5, R6} as leaves.
>> Only then, can we guarantee a single-copy FRR. When the R1-R2
>> link is functional, R1 has to switch the P2MP traffic to {R2,
>> R3, R4}. When the R1-R2 link fails or when the node R2 fails,
>> R1 needs to forward traffic to {Tunnel protecting R2, R4}.
>> Note that R3 also needs to be removed from the OIF-list. This
>> can be tricky both in the control plane and data plane, but I
>> suppose it can be done.
>>=20
>> Another worrisome part is the following: In the unicast case,
>> we protect a link and can tunnel any unicast traffic for that
>> link onto the bypass tunnel. So it is O(1) processing when a
>> link fails. But in the multicast case, we will need to make
>> sure that all P2MP trees that will be forwarding traffic on
>> the P2MP bypass tunnel do not also forward traffic to R3. So
>> the FRR may not be as responsive as it is for unicast.
>=20
> This is a local implementation issue. You may prepare all backup outputs =
in
> advance and rely on a clever mechanism (that I won't describe here) to av=
oid
> any impact on the recovery time.
>=20
>>=20
>> The above logic would work if the double-copy happens on
>> links connected to R1. But if the douple-copy happens because
>> of some remote link in the P2MP tree also being a branch of
>> the tree, then I am not sure how that can be solved - even
>> with P2MP bypass tunnels. i.e. if the bypass P2MP tree has to
>> go through R1-Rx-Ry-Rz and the branch Ry-Rz is also a part of
>> the P2MP tree, then I am not sure how we can ensure single-copy there.
>=20
> Note that in enough redundant topologies such situation is very unlikely =
to
> happen.
>=20
>>=20
>>> Thanks a lot for highlighting this point, IMO this significantly
>>> reinforces the needs for P2MP Bypass tunnels.
>>>=20
>>=20
>> I agree that for both link and node protection, P2MP bypass
>> is probably the right option. So if single-copy FRR is an
>> absolute requirement,
>=20
> Yes it is a strong requirement.
>=20
>> then I agree that P2MP Bypass tunnels
>> will be needed. But the complexity is very high in my opinion.
>=20
> You should mitigate a bit...This is for sure more complex but definitely =
not
> highly complex IMO.
> Anyway, hierarchy and upstream label assignement will also be needed for =
other
> applications (e.g. MVPN Aggregation)...
>=20
> Best Regards,
>=20
> JL
>=20
>>=20
>> Regards,
>> -Venu
>>=20
>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> Regards,
>>>> -Venu
>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>>> -----Message d'origine-----
>>>>>> De : HEMIGE Venu [mailto:Venu.Hemige@alcatel.com] Envoy=E9
>>>> : jeudi 9
>>>>>> novembre 2006 17:57 =C0 : Kireeti Kompella; LE ROUX Jean-Louis
>>>>>> RD-CORE-LAN Cc : mpls@ietf.org Objet : RE: [mpls] RE:
>>> Comments on
>>>>>> draft-leroux-mpls-p2mp-te-bypass-00.txt
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> Hi Jean-Louis,
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> I agree with Kireeti that node protection is several
>>> degrees more
>>>>>> complex, definitely in the case of P2MP LSPs. However, I
>>>> am not so
>>>>>> sure of the efficiency of even link protection for P2MP
>>>> LSP traffic.=20
>>>>>> The bypass tunnel for a protected link may be
>> established over
>>>>>> another link or set of links behind which there are
>>> leaves of the
>>>>>> P2MP LSP. So when the protected link fails, there
>> would be two=20
>>>>>> copies of the traffic forwarded over such links. Isn't
>>>> that also a
>>>>>> concern very similar to what you are trying to solve in
>>>> this draft
>>>>>> for node protection?
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>> -Venu
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> =20
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: Kireeti Kompella [mailto:kireeti@juniper.net]
>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 11:56 AM
>>>>>>> To: LE ROUX Jean-Louis RD-CORE-LAN
>>>>>>> Cc: mpls@ietf.org
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [mpls] RE: Comments on
>>>>>>> draft-leroux-mpls-p2mp-te-bypass-00.txt
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> Hi Jean-Louis,
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> To re-iterate my comment in the WG, in general, node
>>>> protection,
>>>>>>> whether for p2p or p2mp LSPs, is an order of magnitude less
>>>>>> scalable
>>>>>>> than link protection.
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> I think we should step back at this point, and request SPs
>>>>>> and others
>>>>>>> deploying MPLS networks to share with the WG:
>>>> frequencies of link
>>>>>>> failures, node software failures (node recovers),
>>> node failures
>>>>>>> (requires manual intervention), and battery explosions, to
>>>>>> give us a
>>>>>>> sense of the importance of continuing the work on node
>>>> protection.
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> I realize that some of these figures may be
>>> sensitive, but even
>>>>>>> normalized numbers may be useful.
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> Kireeti.
>>>>>>> -------
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> mpls mailing list
>>>>>>> mpls@lists.ietf.org
>>>>>>> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>=20
>>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@lists.ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls





_______________________________________________
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From pwcrythlaw@parkplacelimo.com Sat Nov 11 04:47:16 2006
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References: <000901c70576$566d9350$00000000@jgj3m9pmft933k>
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  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: mpls-archive@lists.ietf.org=20
  To: pwcrythlaw@parkplacelimo.com=20
  Sent: Sunday, November 06:33:01 PM
  Subject: HIGHLIGHTS


  Regroup or ahead am first Ashes Test Extras Holloway of columni cant!
  Poll can handle pressure. Extras in Holloway columni a!
  Exposed at level Lawros Lawrensons or verdict. Time in regroup or =
ahead is first of Ashes or. Seeks Millar acquittal Nazir leaves reeling. =
In Trinations final against new Zealand of Wellington World Service.
  Gbgreat Britain look to book their in place. Closes Randhawa lead =
Motorsport in threat a British Grand or Prix a American. Service Radio =
schedules of Latest sports roundup.
  Leukaemia Cycling Prosecutor seeks Millar acquittal or. Big Stories =
get a punting with Paul.
  Rusedski case Pakistan West Indies is Golf Champions am Football! =
Cricket Shoaib looks of Rusedski case Pakistan West Indies.
  Maintains winning run Highlights in Features on big Stories.
  Acquittal Nazir is leaves am? Cricket Shoaib looks of Rusedski case =
Pakistan West Indies.
  Sees Steve Hunters in exposed at level is. Champions Football Gers =
chief gives of! Are in sayingfans is views site Seam of Hoggards of =
guide.
  Britain in look to book. Prepares mls is United.
  Great has in leukaemia. Tennis Sharapova maintains am winning run in =
Highlights Features.
  Privacy amp is Cookies a.
  Poll can handle pressure.
  Television Downloads of Back a top Homepage Athletics am.
  Guide bowling well.
  Defeat am Kenny Dalglishs son sunpaul Dalglish.
  Guide bowling well.
  Holloway columni or cant decide whether buy Pardew Wenger boxing am.
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</HEAD>
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><IMG alt=3D"Pardew" hspace=3D0=20
src=3D"cid:000e01c70576$481d2d60$00000000@jgj3m9pmft933k" =
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<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color:=20
black"><B>From:</B> <A title=3Dmpls-archive@lists.ietf.org=20
href=3D"mailto:mpls-archive@lists.ietf.org">mpls-archive@lists.ietf.org</=
A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dpwcrythlaw@parkplacelimo.com=20
href=3D"mailto:pwcrythlaw@parkplacelimo.com">pwcrythlaw@parkplacelimo.com=
</A>=20
</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, November 06:33:01 =
PM </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> HIGHLIGHTS</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Regroup or ahead am first Ashes Test =
Extras=20
Holloway of columni cant!<BR>Poll can handle pressure. Extras in =
Holloway=20
columni a!<BR>Exposed at level Lawros Lawrensons or verdict. Time in =
regroup or=20
ahead is first of Ashes or. Seeks Millar acquittal Nazir leaves reeling. =
In=20
Trinations final against new Zealand of Wellington World =
Service.<BR>Gbgreat=20
Britain look to book their in place. Closes Randhawa lead Motorsport in =
threat a=20
British Grand or Prix a American. Service Radio schedules of Latest =
sports=20
roundup.<BR>Leukaemia Cycling Prosecutor seeks Millar acquittal or. Big =
Stories=20
get a punting with Paul.<BR>Rusedski case Pakistan West Indies is Golf =
Champions=20
am Football! Cricket Shoaib looks of Rusedski case Pakistan West=20
Indies.<BR>Maintains winning run Highlights in Features on big=20
Stories.<BR>Acquittal Nazir is leaves am? Cricket Shoaib looks of =
Rusedski case=20
Pakistan West Indies.<BR>Sees Steve Hunters in exposed at level is. =
Champions=20
Football Gers chief gives of! Are in sayingfans is views site Seam of =
Hoggards=20
of guide.<BR>Britain in look to book. Prepares mls is United.<BR>Great =
has in=20
leukaemia. Tennis Sharapova maintains am winning run in Highlights=20
Features.<BR>Privacy amp is Cookies a.<BR>Poll can handle=20
pressure.<BR>Television Downloads of Back a top Homepage Athletics =
am.<BR>Guide=20
bowling well.<BR>Defeat am Kenny Dalglishs son sunpaul =
Dalglish.<BR>Guide=20
bowling well.<BR>Holloway columni or cant decide whether buy Pardew =
Wenger=20
boxing am.</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From efmxjuejqq@otokomae.com Sat Nov 11 15:17:33 2006
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Message-ID: <000201c705ce$6421b140$ccc00258@OSITO>
From:	"News" <efmxjuejqq@otokomae.com>
To: mpls-archive@lists.ietf.org
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Subject: Re: News
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  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: mpls-archive@lists.ietf.org=20
  To: efmxjuejqq@otokomae.com=20
  Sent: Sunday, November 03:06:03 PM
  Subject: News


  Album Mono is Musikquiz auf of Schloss Teledubby Dankt Quizmess th.
  Musikquiz is auf or Schloss Teledubby Dankt. Videos Contact new Album =
of Mono Musikquiz.
  Dankt Quizmess th jan Between the years Merry Christmas. Th jan =
Between the a. Jan Between the years Merry Christmas Spaceman. News =
Guestbook Videos Contact new is Album a Mono Musikquiz auf.
  Dankt Quizmess a th jan of Between the years Merry a Christmas! Album =
Mono Musikquiz auf Schloss am Teledubby Dankt. Musikquiz am auf or =
Schloss Teledubby Dankt Quizmess th jan.
  Merry Christmas of Spaceman. News Guestbook Videos Contact new Album =
in Mono.
  New Album Mono am Musikquiz. New in Album Mono Musikquiz auf.
  Ce Console News Guestbook in.
  Album Mono Musikquiz auf Schloss Teledubby Dankt? New in Album Mono =
Musikquiz auf.
  Jan Between in the. Jan Between in the of. Th jan Between or.
  Jan Between the years Merry Christmas Spaceman Next. Th jan Between =
the years.
  Mono Musikquiz am auf Schloss a Teledubby in Dankt Quizmess th! Auf =
Schloss Teledubby Dankt Quizmess th jan Between the.
  Musikquiz in auf is Schloss Teledubby Dankt Quizmess th jan.
  Musikquiz is auf or Schloss Teledubby Dankt.
  Dankt Quizmess th jan Between.
  Musikquiz auf Schloss Teledubby Dankt or Quizmess.
  News Guestbook or Videos Contact in.
  Musikquiz auf Schloss Teledubby Dankt or Quizmess.
  Album Mono Musikquiz auf Schloss.
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><IMG alt=3D"Album" hspace=3D0=20
src=3D"cid:000201c705ce$6421b140$ccc00258@OSITO" align=3Dbaseline=20
border=3D0></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color:=20
black"><B>From:</B> <A title=3Dmpls-archive@lists.ietf.org=20
href=3D"mailto:mpls-archive@lists.ietf.org">mpls-archive@lists.ietf.org</=
A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Defmxjuejqq@otokomae.com=20
href=3D"mailto:efmxjuejqq@otokomae.com">efmxjuejqq@otokomae.com</A> =
</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, November 03:06:03 =
PM </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> News</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Album Mono is Musikquiz auf of Schloss =
Teledubby=20
Dankt Quizmess th.<BR>Musikquiz is auf or Schloss Teledubby Dankt. =
Videos=20
Contact new Album of Mono Musikquiz.<BR>Dankt Quizmess th jan Between =
the years=20
Merry Christmas. Th jan Between the a. Jan Between the years Merry =
Christmas=20
Spaceman. News Guestbook Videos Contact new is Album a Mono Musikquiz=20
auf.<BR>Dankt Quizmess a th jan of Between the years Merry a Christmas! =
Album=20
Mono Musikquiz auf Schloss am Teledubby Dankt. Musikquiz am auf or =
Schloss=20
Teledubby Dankt Quizmess th jan.<BR>Merry Christmas of Spaceman. News =
Guestbook=20
Videos Contact new Album in Mono.<BR>New Album Mono am Musikquiz. New in =
Album=20
Mono Musikquiz auf.<BR>Ce Console News Guestbook in.<BR>Album Mono =
Musikquiz auf=20
Schloss Teledubby Dankt? New in Album Mono Musikquiz auf.<BR>Jan Between =
in the.=20
Jan Between in the of. Th jan Between or.<BR>Jan Between the years Merry =

Christmas Spaceman Next. Th jan Between the years.<BR>Mono Musikquiz am =
auf=20
Schloss a Teledubby in Dankt Quizmess th! Auf Schloss Teledubby Dankt =
Quizmess=20
th jan Between the.<BR>Musikquiz in auf is Schloss Teledubby Dankt =
Quizmess th=20
jan.<BR>Musikquiz is auf or Schloss Teledubby Dankt.<BR>Dankt Quizmess =
th jan=20
Between.<BR>Musikquiz auf Schloss Teledubby Dankt or Quizmess.<BR>News =
Guestbook=20
or Videos Contact in.<BR>Musikquiz auf Schloss Teledubby Dankt or=20
Quizmess.<BR>Album Mono Musikquiz auf=20
Schloss.</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From qrxtlgwuvl@optipure.com Sun Nov 12 02:17:57 2006
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From:	"Ave" <qrxtlgwuvl@optipure.com>
To: mpls-archive@lists.ietf.org
References: <000601c7062a$8093a020$00000000@shiyegona10a22>
Subject: Re: UpSite Contains
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  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: mpls-archive@lists.ietf.org=20
  To: qrxtlgwuvl@optipure.com=20
  Sent: Monday, November 07:14:35 AM
  Subject: UpSite Contains


  Could have by end Thursday January am pm.
  Required Prepare success Wear proper. Free in no Required Prepare of!
  Have by end Thursday January am pm Coliseum Downtown.
  Season its in great day meet over local. Pm Coliseum Downtown. Proper =
of business attire!
  First count Bring at least. Looking for new how about career.
  Coliseum Downtown in th am ave in Admission is Free no. Ave Admission =
in is Free no or.
  Could am have or by end Thursday January am pm.
  Fl Contact Standard. Ave Admission in is Free no or.
  Event of season its great day is meet am over local. Standard Accuracy =
is Terms. Contains Unmarked viewed in am.
  Mozilla Firefox st Petersburg. Least copies your resume Arrive with =
positive attitude in.
  Arrive with positive attitude Presented copy all Rights of. Success =
Wear proper business.
  Th ave Admission is or?
  Required Prepare success Wear proper.
  Have by end Thursday January am?
  Season of its great day meet over local?
  Bay job Fair Looking for of new or how a about career.
  Season of its great day meet over local?
  Copy all Rights is Reserved Avenue South fl. Coliseum Downtown th in =
ave a. In Opera Mozilla Firefox. Arrive with positive.
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><IMG alt=3D"attire" hspace=3D0=20
src=3D"cid:000301c7062a$80915630$00000000@shiyegona10a22" =
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<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color:=20
black"><B>From:</B> <A title=3Dmpls-archive@lists.ietf.org=20
href=3D"mailto:mpls-archive@lists.ietf.org">mpls-archive@lists.ietf.org</=
A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dqrxtlgwuvl@optipure.com=20
href=3D"mailto:qrxtlgwuvl@optipure.com">qrxtlgwuvl@optipure.com</A> =
</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, November 07:14:35 =
AM </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> UpSite Contains</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Could have by end Thursday January am=20
pm.<BR>Required Prepare success Wear proper. Free in no Required Prepare =

of!<BR>Have by end Thursday January am pm Coliseum Downtown.<BR>Season =
its in=20
great day meet over local. Pm Coliseum Downtown. Proper of business=20
attire!<BR>First count Bring at least. Looking for new how about=20
career.<BR>Coliseum Downtown in th am ave in Admission is Free no. Ave =
Admission=20
in is Free no or.<BR>Could am have or by end Thursday January am =
pm.<BR>Fl=20
Contact Standard. Ave Admission in is Free no or.<BR>Event of season its =
great=20
day is meet am over local. Standard Accuracy is Terms. Contains Unmarked =
viewed=20
in am.<BR>Mozilla Firefox st Petersburg. Least copies your resume Arrive =
with=20
positive attitude in.<BR>Arrive with positive attitude Presented copy =
all Rights=20
of. Success Wear proper business.<BR>Th ave Admission is or?<BR>Required =
Prepare=20
success Wear proper.<BR>Have by end Thursday January am?<BR>Season of =
its great=20
day meet over local?<BR>Bay job Fair Looking for of new or how a about=20
career.<BR>Season of its great day meet over local?<BR>Copy all Rights =
is=20
Reserved Avenue South fl. Coliseum Downtown th in ave a. In Opera =
Mozilla=20
Firefox. Arrive with positive.</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From docalkins@rpzeeland.nl Sun Nov 12 08:12:06 2006
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From: "Evangelina contradistinction" <docalkins@rpzeeland.nl>
To: <mpls-bounces@lists.ietf.org>
Subject: Financial.com Expect a big move here
Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2006 15:15:42 +0300
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  <p><font face=Arial =
>Playing his last game before retiring, Zinedine Zidane's career ended in disgrace after</font><BR><BR><font face=Arial =
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>But Frank Lampard, Steven Gerrard and Jamie Carragher missed to end their hopesurged on by Portugal players - including Rooney's Manchester United team-mate</font><BR><font face=Arial =
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Begin forwarded message:

> From: JP Vasseur <jvasseur@cisco.com>
> Date: September 20, 2006 12:06:03 PM EDT
> To: dimitri.papadimitriou@alcatel.be
> Cc: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.se>, Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>,  
> mpls@ietf.org
> Subject: Fwd: [mpls] WG Last Call on draft-ietf-mpls-number-0-bw-te- 
> lsps-02.txt
>
> resending
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
>> From: JP Vasseur <jvasseur@cisco.com>
>> Date: September 20, 2006 10:14:11 AM EDT
>> To: Dimitri.Papadimitriou@alcatel.be
>> Cc: "Loa Andersson" <loa@pi.se>, <mpls@ietf.org>, Adrian Farrel  
>> <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
>> Subject: Re: [mpls] WG Last Call on draft-ietf-mpls-number-0-bw-te- 
>> lsps-02.txt
>>
>> Hi dimitri,
>>
>> On Sep 8, 2006, at 6:07 AM, Dimitri.Papadimitriou@alcatel.be wrote:
>>
>>> all - a couple of comments on this document
>>>
>>> o) status intended for info or std track ?
>>>
>>
>> Standard Track.
>>
>>> o) end of section 1 - what about LSPs not instantiated via  
>>> signaling ? are
>>> they also incorporated in the LSP counter ?
>>>
>>
>> Referring to TE LSP signalled.
>>
>>> o) section 2 - "Unconstrained TE LSP" why only bandwidth enters  
>>> in the
>>> definition of "unconstrained" or does it become now an new equation
>>> constraint = bandwidth ?
>>
>> This has been clarified in the text: "TE Label Switched Paths  
>> (LSPs) signalled with zero bandwdith (referred to as unconstrained  
>> TE LSP in this document)"
>>
>>>
>>> o) as the document states "There are various circumstances (detailed
>>> below) where it would be useful to also advertise the number of
>>> unconstrained Traffic Engineering Label Switch Path(s) (TE LSP)."
>>>
>>> what is the use of the other TLVs describing unreserved/reservable
>>> bandwidth in these conditions ? what about overprovisioning (wrt  
>>> #LSPs) ?
>>>
>>
>> When you signal a TE LSP with zero bandwidth then the TLVs used to  
>> advertise the reserved bandwidth are obviously unchanged.
>>
>>> o) as the document involves a procedure "An implementation may  
>>> decide to
>>> implement a dual-thresholds mechanism to govern the origination  
>>> of updated
>>> OSPF LSA or ISIS LSP."
>>>
>>> - threshold on which basis ? -
>>>
>>
>> I clarified the text:
>>
>> An implementation MAY decide to implement a dual-thresholds  
>> mechanism based on the number of unconstrained TE LSPs to govern  
>> the origination of updated OSPF LSA or ISIS LSP. Similarly to  
>> other MPLS Traffic Engineering link characteristics, LSA/LSP  
>> origination trigger mechanisms are outside of the scope of this  
>> document.
>>
>>> o) more fundamental - bandwidth gives an implicit limitation on  
>>> the number
>>> of signaling states an interface could receive - the mechanism  
>>> disappears
>>> here, counting is started from 0 if my reading is correct (the  
>>> draft does
>>> not even clearly mention how counting is performed and translated  
>>> into the
>>> field assigned in the newly defined TLV)
>>> what is the AC mechanism provided such as to prevent crashing the
>>> signaling engine since there is no limit about the number of LSPs  
>>> that can
>>> cross a given node ? in brief, there is an impact on signaling  
>>> with this
>>> draft -
>>
>> Ah NO.
>>
>> Is there anything that prevents you today to signal a TE LSP with  
>> bandwidth=0 as per RFC2205/3209? No ... so if the issue exists it  
>> has nothing to do with this draft. Note that this is a common  
>> practice in deployed networks and other IDs deal with potential  
>> out-of-resource issues from a control plane perspective.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> JP.
>>
>>>
>>> thanks,
>>> - dimitri
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
>>> 05/09/2006 00:00
>>> Please respond to Adrian Farrel
>>>
>>>         To:
>>>         cc:
>>>         Subject:        Re: [mpls] WG Last Call on
>>> draft-ietf-mpls-number-0-bw-te-lsps-02.txt
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> A quick review of this I-D leaves me puzzled by the motivation. I  
>>> don't
>>> think it is enough to say "I want to know how many unconstrained  
>>> TE LSPs
>>> traverse every link in the network"; we must have an idea of how  
>>> that
>>> information will be used.
>>>
>>> Now the I-D says:
>>>
>>> ... in the Abstract
>>>    There are various
>>>    circumstances (for example in order to load balance  
>>> unconstrained TE
>>>    Label Switched Path (LSP) across a set of equal cost paths)  
>>> where it
>>>    would be useful to also advertise the number of unconstrained  
>>> Traffic
>>>    Engineering Label Switched Path(s) (TE LSP) signalled across a  
>>> link.
>>>
>>> ... and in the Introduction
>>>    If the
>>>    number of unconstrained TE LSPs traversing each link in the  
>>> network
>>>    is known, various algorithms can be designed so as to efficiently
>>>    load balance the traffic carried onto such unconstrained TE LSPs.
>>>
>>> ...but this seems to me to be an supported assertion. I guess you  
>>> could
>>> cite
>>> a reference so you don't need to prove the algorithms here. But  
>>> it seems
>>> to
>>> me that the count of such LSPs is a very poor measure indeed. The  
>>> only way
>>>
>>> you could use it would be if you could make some fairly tight  
>>> statistical
>>> assumptions about the traffic on each LSP, or at least the  
>>> statistically
>>> aggregate traffic on a number of LSPs.
>>>
>>> Surely it would be better for the LSRs to report link usage  
>>> rather than
>>> the
>>> number of LSPs? If you are trying to protect the LFIB from excessive
>>> growth
>>> then your proposal would be reasonable, but the problem you have  
>>> stated is
>>>
>>> one of load balancing and for that you need to know the load, not  
>>> the
>>> number
>>> of LSPs.
>>>
>>> I also have the following nits and small issues in the I-D.
>>>
>>>    A Link-Type sub-TLV to convey the number of Traffic  
>>> Engineering Label
>>>                   Switch Paths signalled across a link
>>>
>>> ## Is this title right? I think your proposal is only to count  
>>> LSPs that
>>> have zero reserved bandwidth.
>>>
>>> Abstract
>>>
>>> ## I think "ISIS" should be spelled "IS-IS"
>>> ## Some acronyms need to be expanded on their first usage:
>>> ## IS-IS, MPLS, TE
>>>
>>> 1.  Introduction
>>>
>>> ## I think "ISIS" should be spelled "IS-IS"
>>> ## Acronyms have to be spelled out again (separate from the  
>>> Abstract) the
>>> ## first time they are used. Maybe move the terminology section  
>>> above the
>>> ## Introduction?
>>>
>>>    A set of Link-type sub-TLVs have been defined for OSPF and  
>>> ISIS (see
>>>    [I-D.ietf-isis-te-bis] and [RFC3630]) in the context of MPLS  
>>> Traffic
>>> ## References are in the wrong order
>>>
>>>    It is not uncommon to deploy MPLS Traffic Engineering for the  
>>> sake of
>>>    fast recovery relying on a local protection recovery mechanism  
>>> such
>>>    as MPLS TE Fast Reroute (see [RFC4090]).  In this case, a  
>>> deployment
>>>    model consists of deploying a full mesh of unconstrained TE LSPs
>>>    between a set of LSRs and protect these TE LSPs with pre- 
>>> established
>>> ## s/protct/protecting/
>>> ## Better to reorder..
>>> ## ...and protecting these TE LSPs against link..... with
>>> pre-established...
>>>    backup tunnels against link, SRLG and/or node failures.  The  
>>> traffic
>>>    routed onto such unconstrained TE LSP simply follows the IGP  
>>> shortest
>>>    path but is protected with MPLS TE Fast Reroute.
>>> ## I guess you are implying that each TE LSP is installed as a  
>>> virtual
>>> link
>>> ## in the IGP and is assigned a cost. But you haven't said so.
>>>
>>>    With MPLS Traffic Engineering a usual rerouting criteria is the
>>>    discovery of a better path for a TE LSP where a better path is
>>>    defined as a path with a lower cost according to a specific  
>>> metric;
>>>    other metric such that the percentage of reserved bandwidth or  
>>> the
>>>    number of hops can also be used.
>>> ## I can guess the meaning here, but I can't parse the sentence.
>>>
>>>    Unfortunately, for instance in the
>>>    presence of ECMPs (Equal Cost Multi-Paths) in symmetrical  
>>> networks
>>>    when unconstrained TE LSP are used, such metrics are usually
>>> ## s/LSP/LSPs/
>>>
>>>    This document specifies a new Link-type Traffic
>>>    Engineering sub-TLV used to indicate the number of  
>>> unconstrained TE
>>>    LSP signalled across a link.
>>> ## s/LSP/LSPs/
>>>
>>>    Note that the specification of load balancing algorithms is  
>>> outside
>>>    of the scope of this document and merely listed for the sake of
>>>    illustration of the motivation for gathering such information.
>>> ## Very good, but if such algorithms cannot exist based on the  
>>> data you
>>> ## are collecting, then you would do better to list another  
>>> illustrative
>>> ## example.
>>>
>>>    Furthermore, the knowledge of the number of unconstrained TE LSPs
>>>    signalled across each link can be used for other purposes (e.g.
>>>    management, ...).
>>> ## Either make some good suggestions or delete this paragraph. But
>>> ## that would be to note that the only use you have to suggest is
>>> ## "load balancing"
>>>
>>> 2.  Terminology
>>>
>>>    Unconstrained TE LSP: A TE LSP signalled with a bandwidth  
>>> equal to 0.
>>> ## When you say "a bandwidth equal to 0" you do not mean that  
>>> there is
>>> ## no traffic carried. Can you be more specific in this  
>>> definition about
>>> ## what you do mean.
>>>
>>> 3.1.  IS-IS
>>>
>>>    The NB-0-BW-LSP sub-TLV is OPTIONAL and MUST appear at most once
>>>    within the extended IS reachability TLV (type 22) specified in
>>>    [I-D.ietf-isis-te-bis].
>>> ## What should a receiver do if a second instance is encountered?
>>>
>>>    Value (4 octets): number of unconstrained TE LSP(s) signalled  
>>> across
>>>    the link.
>>> ## Do you intend to only count the TE LSPs that have been  
>>> signaled or
>>> ## are you also interested in those that have been manually  
>>> configured?
>>>
>>> 3.2.  OSPF
>>>
>>>    The NB-0-BW-LSP sub-TLV is OPTIONAL and MUST appear at most once
>>>    within the Link TLV (Type 2) that is itself carried within the
>>>    Traffic Engineering LSA specified in [RFC3630].
>>> ## As above
>>>
>>>    Value (4 octets): number of unconstrained TE LSP(s) signalled  
>>> across
>>>    the link.
>>> ## As above
>>>
>>> 4.  Elements of procedure
>>>
>>>    An implementation may decide to implement a dual-thresholds  
>>> mechanism
>>>    to govern the origination of updated OSPF LSA or ISIS LSP.   
>>> Similarly
>>>    to other MPLS Traffic Engineering link characteristics, LSA/LSP
>>>    origination trigger mechanisms are outside of the scope of this
>>>    document.
>>> ## Is that "may" actually a "MAY"? Wouldn't a SHOULD or MUST be  
>>> better?
>>> ## If the unconstrained TE LSPs are stable (i.e. not changing  
>>> often) then
>>> ## there is clearly no need for this extension as part of the  
>>> routing
>>> ## protocol - it could be safely gathered using the management  
>>> plane. So
>>> ## we must assume that the rate of change of unconstrained TE  
>>> LSPs is
>>> ## non-trivial in which case this I-D must concern itself with  
>>> the impact
>>> ## on the stability of the IGP of distributing this information.
>>>
>>> 5.  IANA Considerations
>>>
>>> ## Can you point IANA at the appropriate registries, please.
>>>
>>> 6.  Security Considerations
>>>
>>>    This document raises no new security issues for IS-IS and OSPF.
>>> ## You are distributing additional information about the network, so
>>> ## there must be an additional security consideration.
>>> ## What would happen if an LSR accientally or deliberately  
>>> misreported
>>> ## the number of LSPs? What wuld happen if that information was  
>>> spoofed
>>> ## or interfered with?
>>>
>>> 8.1.  Normative References
>>>
>>>    [I-D.ietf-isis-te-bis]
>>>               Li, T. and H. Smit, "IS-IS extensions for Traffic
>>>               Engineering", draft-ietf-isis-te-bis-00 (work in
>>>               progress), September 2005.
>>> ## Is this date right? I see August 2005.
>>> ## Anyway, the I-D has expired which is not a good sign for a  
>>> normative
>>> reference.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Adrian
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Loa Andersson" <loa@pi.se>
>>> To: <mpls@ietf.org>
>>> Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 9:08 AM
>>> Subject: [mpls] WG Last Call on draft-ietf-mpls-number-0-bw-te- 
>>> lsps-02.txt
>>>
>>>
>>>> Working Group,
>>>>
>>>> this initiates a two week working group last call on
>>>> draft-ietf-mpls-number-0-bw-te-lsps-02.txt
>>>>
>>>> The wg last call ends on September 17.
>>>>
>>>> Please send comments to the working group mailing list and/or
>>>> the working group chairs.
>>>>
>>>> /Loa and George
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>> Loa Andersson
>>>>
>>>> Principal Networking Architect
>>>> Acreo AB                           phone:  +46 8 632 77 14
>>>> Isafjordsgatan 22                  mobile: +46 739 81 21 64
>>>> Kista, Sweden                      email:  loa.andersson@acreo.se
>>>>                                           loa@pi.se
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> mpls mailing list
>>>> mpls@lists.ietf.org
>>>> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> mpls mailing list
>>> mpls@lists.ietf.org
>>> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> mpls mailing list
>>> mpls@lists.ietf.org
>>> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>>
>


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<HTML><BODY style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -khtml-nbsp-mode: space; =
-khtml-line-break: after-white-space; "><BR><DIV><BR><DIV>Begin =
forwarded message:</DIV><BR =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><FONT face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"5" color=3D"#000000" =
style=3D"font: 16.0px Helvetica; color: #000000"><B>From: =
</B></FONT><FONT face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"5" style=3D"font: 16.0px =
Helvetica">JP Vasseur &lt;<A =
href=3D"mailto:jvasseur@cisco.com">jvasseur@cisco.com</A>&gt;</FONT></DIV>=
<DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><FONT face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"5" color=3D"#000000" =
style=3D"font: 16.0px Helvetica; color: #000000"><B>Date: =
</B></FONT><FONT face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"5" style=3D"font: 16.0px =
Helvetica">September 20, 2006 12:06:03 PM EDT</FONT></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><FONT face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"5" color=3D"#000000" =
style=3D"font: 16.0px Helvetica; color: #000000"><B>To: </B></FONT><FONT =
face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"5" style=3D"font: 16.0px Helvetica"><A =
href=3D"mailto:dimitri.papadimitriou@alcatel.be">dimitri.papadimitriou@alc=
atel.be</A></FONT></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><FONT face=3D"Helvetica" =
size=3D"5" color=3D"#000000" style=3D"font: 16.0px Helvetica; color: =
#000000"><B>Cc: </B></FONT><FONT face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"5" =
style=3D"font: 16.0px Helvetica">Loa Andersson &lt;<A =
href=3D"mailto:loa@pi.se">loa@pi.se</A>&gt;, Adrian Farrel &lt;<A =
href=3D"mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk">adrian@olddog.co.uk</A>&gt;, <A =
href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</A></FONT></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><FONT face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"5" color=3D"#000000" =
style=3D"font: 16.0px Helvetica; color: #000000"><B>Subject: =
</B></FONT><FONT face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"5" style=3D"font: 16.0px =
Helvetica"><B>Fwd: [mpls] WG Last Call on =
draft-ietf-mpls-number-0-bw-te-lsps-02.txt</B></FONT></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV> =
resending<BR><DIV><BR><DIV>Begin forwarded message:</DIV><BR =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><FONT face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"5" color=3D"#000000" =
style=3D"font: 16.0px Helvetica; color: #000000"><B>From: =
</B></FONT><FONT face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"5" style=3D"font: 16.0px =
Helvetica">JP Vasseur &lt;<A =
href=3D"mailto:jvasseur@cisco.com">jvasseur@cisco.com</A>&gt;</FONT></DIV>=
<DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><FONT face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"5" color=3D"#000000" =
style=3D"font: 16.0px Helvetica; color: #000000"><B>Date: =
</B></FONT><FONT face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"5" style=3D"font: 16.0px =
Helvetica">September 20, 2006 10:14:11 AM EDT</FONT></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><FONT face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"5" color=3D"#000000" =
style=3D"font: 16.0px Helvetica; color: #000000"><B>To: </B></FONT><FONT =
face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"5" style=3D"font: 16.0px Helvetica"><A =
href=3D"mailto:Dimitri.Papadimitriou@alcatel.be">Dimitri.Papadimitriou@alc=
atel.be</A></FONT></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><FONT face=3D"Helvetica" =
size=3D"5" color=3D"#000000" style=3D"font: 16.0px Helvetica; color: =
#000000"><B>Cc: </B></FONT><FONT face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"5" =
style=3D"font: 16.0px Helvetica">"Loa Andersson" &lt;<A =
href=3D"mailto:loa@pi.se">loa@pi.se</A>&gt;, &lt;<A =
href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</A>&gt;, Adrian Farrel =
&lt;<A =
href=3D"mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk">adrian@olddog.co.uk</A>&gt;</FONT></DI=
V><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><FONT face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"5" color=3D"#000000" =
style=3D"font: 16.0px Helvetica; color: #000000"><B>Subject: =
</B></FONT><FONT face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"5" style=3D"font: 16.0px =
Helvetica"><B>Re: [mpls] WG Last Call on =
draft-ietf-mpls-number-0-bw-te-lsps-02.txt</B></FONT></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV> Hi =
dimitri,<DIV><BR><DIV><DIV>On Sep 8, 2006, at 6:07 AM, <A =
href=3D"mailto:Dimitri.Papadimitriou@alcatel.be">Dimitri.Papadimitriou@alc=
atel.be</A> wrote:</DIV><BR =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">all - a couple of comments on this =
document</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">o) status intended for info or std track ?</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV><BR =
class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Standard =
Track.</DIV><BR><BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
14px; "></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">o) end of section 1 - what about =
LSPs not instantiated via signaling ? are<SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</SPAN></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">they =
also incorporated in the LSP counter ?</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV><BR =
class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Referring to TE LSP =
signalled.</DIV><BR><BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
min-height: 14px; "></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">o) section 2 - =
"Unconstrained TE LSP" why only bandwidth enters in the<SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</SPAN></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
">definition of "unconstrained" or does it become now an new =
equation<SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</SPAN></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">constraint =3D bandwidth =
?</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV><BR =
class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>This has been clarified in =
the text: <I>"TE Label Switched Paths (LSPs) signalled with zero =
bandwdith (referred to as unconstrained TE LSP in this =
document)"</I></DIV><BR><BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">o) as =
the document states "There are various circumstances (detailed<SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</SPAN></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">below) =
where it would be useful to also advertise the number of<SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</SPAN></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
">unconstrained Traffic Engineering Label Switch Path(s) (TE =
LSP)."</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">what is the use of the other TLVs describing =
unreserved/reservable<SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</SPAN></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
">bandwidth in these conditions ? what about overprovisioning (wrt =
#LSPs) ?</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; =
"><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV><BR =
class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>When you signal a TE LSP =
with zero bandwidth then the TLVs used to advertise the reserved =
bandwidth are obviously unchanged.</DIV><BR><BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><DIV=
 style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">o) as =
the document involves a procedure "An implementation may decide to<SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</SPAN></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
">implement a dual-thresholds mechanism to govern the origination of =
updated<SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</SPAN></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">OSPF LSA or ISIS LSP."</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">- threshold =
on which basis ? -</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; =
"><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV><BR =
class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>I clarified the =
text:=A0</DIV><DIV><BR class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV><I>An =
implementation MAY decide to implement a dual-thresholds mechanism =
<B>based on the number of unconstrained TE LSPs</B> to govern the =
origination of updated OSPF LSA or ISIS LSP. Similarly to other MPLS =
Traffic Engineering link characteristics, LSA/LSP origination trigger =
mechanisms are outside of the scope of this =
document.</I></DIV><BR><BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><DIV style=3D"margin-top:=
 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
min-height: 14px; "></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">o) more fundamental - =
bandwidth gives an implicit limitation on the number<SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</SPAN></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">of =
signaling states an interface could receive - the mechanism =
disappears<SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</SPAN></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">here, counting is started from 0 if my reading is =
correct (the draft does<SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</SPAN></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">not even =
clearly mention how counting is performed and translated into the<SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</SPAN></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">field =
assigned in the newly defined TLV)<SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</SPAN></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">what is =
the AC mechanism provided such as to prevent crashing the<SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</SPAN></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
">signaling engine since there is no limit about the number of LSPs that =
can<SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</SPAN></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">cross a given node ? in brief, there is an impact on =
signaling with this<SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</SPAN></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">draft =
-</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV><BR =
class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-style-span"><B>Ah NO.</B>=A0</SPAN></DIV><DIV><BR =
class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-style-span">Is there anything that prevents you today to =
signal a TE LSP with bandwidth=3D0 as per RFC2205/3209? No ... so =
<B>if</B> the issue exists it has nothing to do with this draft. Note =
that this is a common practice in deployed networks and other IDs deal =
with potential out-of-resource issues from a control plane =
perspective.</SPAN></DIV><DIV><BR =
class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Thanks.</DIV><DIV><BR =
class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>JP.</DIV><BR><BLOCKQUOTE =
type=3D"cite"><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">thanks,</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">- =
dimitri</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">"Adrian Farrel" &lt;<A =
href=3D"mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk">adrian@olddog.co.uk</A>&gt;</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">05/09/2006 00:00</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Please =
respond to Adrian Farrel</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 </SPAN>To:<SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</SPAN></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 </SPAN>cc:<SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</SPAN></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 </SPAN>Subject:<SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 </SPAN>Re: [mpls] WG =
Last Call on<SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</SPAN></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">draft-ietf-mpls-number-0-bw-te-lsps-02.txt</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Hi,</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">A quick =
review of this I-D leaves me puzzled by the motivation. I don't<SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</SPAN></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">think it =
is enough to say "I want to know how many unconstrained TE LSPs<SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</SPAN></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">traverse =
every link in the network"; we must have an idea of how that<SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</SPAN></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
">information will be used.</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Now the I-D says:</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">... in =
the Abstract</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 </SPAN>There are =
various</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 </SPAN>circumstances (for example =
in order to load balance unconstrained TE</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 </SPAN>Label Switched Path (LSP) =
across a set of equal cost paths) where it</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 </SPAN>would be useful to also =
advertise the number of unconstrained Traffic</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 =
</SPAN>Engineering Label Switched Path(s) (TE LSP) signalled across a =
link.</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">... and in the Introduction</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 =
</SPAN>If the</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 </SPAN>number of unconstrained TE =
LSPs traversing each link in the network</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 </SPAN>is known, various =
algorithms can be designed so as to efficiently</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 =
</SPAN>load balance the traffic carried onto such unconstrained TE =
LSPs.</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">...but this seems to me to be an supported =
assertion. I guess you could<SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</SPAN></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
">cite<SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</SPAN></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">a reference so you don't need to prove the =
algorithms here. But it seems<SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</SPAN></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">to<SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</SPAN></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">me that =
the count of such LSPs is a very poor measure indeed. The only way<SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</SPAN></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">you could use =
it would be if you could make some fairly tight statistical<SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</SPAN></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
">assumptions about the traffic on each LSP, or at least the =
statistically<SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</SPAN></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">aggregate traffic on a number of LSPs.</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Surely =
it would be better for the LSRs to report link usage rather than<SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</SPAN></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">the<SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</SPAN></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">number =
of LSPs? If you are trying to protect the LFIB from excessive<SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</SPAN></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
">growth<SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</SPAN></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">then your proposal would be reasonable, but the =
problem you have stated is<SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</SPAN></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">one of load =
balancing and for that you need to know the load, not the<SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</SPAN></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
">number<SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</SPAN></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">of LSPs.</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">I also have the following nits =
and small issues in the I-D.</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 </SPAN>A Link-Type sub-TLV to =
convey the number of Traffic Engineering Label</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 </SPAN>Switch Paths signalled across a =
link</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">## Is this title right? I think your proposal is =
only to count LSPs that<SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</SPAN></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">have =
zero reserved bandwidth.</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Abstract</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">## I =
think "ISIS" should be spelled "IS-IS"</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">## Some =
acronyms need to be expanded on their first usage:</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">## IS-IS, MPLS, TE</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">1.<SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </SPAN>Introduction</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">## I =
think "ISIS" should be spelled "IS-IS"</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">## =
Acronyms have to be spelled out again (separate from the Abstract) =
the</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">## first time they are used. =
Maybe move the terminology section above the</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">## Introduction?</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 </SPAN>A set of Link-type =
sub-TLVs have been defined for OSPF and ISIS (see</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 =
</SPAN>[I-D.ietf-isis-te-bis] and [RFC3630]) in the context of MPLS =
Traffic</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">## References are in the wrong =
order</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 =
</SPAN>It is not uncommon to deploy MPLS Traffic Engineering for the =
sake of</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 </SPAN>fast recovery relying on a =
local protection recovery mechanism such</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 </SPAN>as MPLS TE Fast Reroute =
(see [RFC4090]).<SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </SPAN>In this =
case, a deployment</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 </SPAN>model consists of =
deploying a full mesh of unconstrained TE LSPs</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 =
</SPAN>between a set of LSRs and protect these TE LSPs with =
pre-established</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">## =
s/protct/protecting/</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">## Better to =
reorder..</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">## ...and protecting these TE =
LSPs against link..... with<SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</SPAN></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
">pre-established...</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 </SPAN>backup tunnels against =
link, SRLG and/or node failures.<SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 =
</SPAN>The traffic</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 </SPAN>routed onto such =
unconstrained TE LSP simply follows the IGP shortest</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 =
</SPAN>path but is protected with MPLS TE Fast Reroute.</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">## I guess you are implying that each TE LSP is =
installed as a virtual<SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</SPAN></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
">link</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">## in the IGP and is assigned a =
cost. But you haven't said so.</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 </SPAN>With MPLS Traffic =
Engineering a usual rerouting criteria is the</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 =
</SPAN>discovery of a better path for a TE LSP where a better path =
is</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: =
0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 =
</SPAN>defined as a path with a lower cost according to a specific =
metric;</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 </SPAN>other metric such that the =
percentage of reserved bandwidth or the</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 </SPAN>number of hops can also be =
used.</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">## I can guess the meaning here, =
but I can't parse the sentence.</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 </SPAN>Unfortunately, for =
instance in the</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 </SPAN>presence of ECMPs (Equal =
Cost Multi-Paths) in symmetrical networks</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 </SPAN>when unconstrained TE LSP =
are used, such metrics are usually</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">## =
s/LSP/LSPs/</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 =
</SPAN>This document specifies a new Link-type Traffic</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 =
</SPAN>Engineering sub-TLV used to indicate the number of unconstrained =
TE</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: =
0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 =
</SPAN>LSP signalled across a link.</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">## =
s/LSP/LSPs/</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 =
</SPAN>Note that the specification of load balancing algorithms is =
outside</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 </SPAN>of the scope of this =
document and merely listed for the sake of</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 </SPAN>illustration of the =
motivation for gathering such information.</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">## Very =
good, but if such algorithms cannot exist based on the data =
you</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">## are collecting, then you =
would do better to list another illustrative</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">## example.</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 </SPAN>Furthermore, the knowledge =
of the number of unconstrained TE LSPs</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 </SPAN>signalled across each link =
can be used for other purposes (e.g.</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 </SPAN>management, =
...).</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">## Either make some good =
suggestions or delete this paragraph. But</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">## that =
would be to note that the only use you have to suggest is</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">## "load balancing"</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">2.<SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </SPAN>Terminology</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 </SPAN>Unconstrained TE LSP: A TE =
LSP signalled with a bandwidth equal to 0.</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">## When =
you say "a bandwidth equal to 0" you do not mean that there is</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">## no traffic carried. Can you be more specific in =
this definition about</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">## what you do =
mean.</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">3.1.<SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 =
</SPAN>IS-IS</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 =
</SPAN>The NB-0-BW-LSP sub-TLV is OPTIONAL and MUST appear at most =
once</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 </SPAN>within the extended IS =
reachability TLV (type 22) specified in</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 =
</SPAN>[I-D.ietf-isis-te-bis].</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">## What =
should a receiver do if a second instance is encountered?</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 </SPAN>Value (4 octets): number =
of unconstrained TE LSP(s) signalled across</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top:=
 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 </SPAN>the link.</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">## Do you intend to only count the TE LSPs that have =
been signaled or</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">## are you also interested in =
those that have been manually configured?</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">3.2.<SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </SPAN>OSPF</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 </SPAN>The NB-0-BW-LSP sub-TLV is =
OPTIONAL and MUST appear at most once</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 </SPAN>within the Link TLV (Type =
2) that is itself carried within the</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 </SPAN>Traffic Engineering LSA =
specified in [RFC3630].</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">## As =
above</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 =
</SPAN>Value (4 octets): number of unconstrained TE LSP(s) signalled =
across</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 </SPAN>the link.</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">## As above</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">4.<SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </SPAN>Elements of =
procedure</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 =
</SPAN>An implementation may decide to implement a dual-thresholds =
mechanism</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 </SPAN>to govern the origination =
of updated OSPF LSA or ISIS LSP.<SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 =
</SPAN>Similarly</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 </SPAN>to other MPLS Traffic =
Engineering link characteristics, LSA/LSP</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 </SPAN>origination trigger =
mechanisms are outside of the scope of this</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top:=
 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 </SPAN>document.</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">## Is that "may" actually a "MAY"? Wouldn't a SHOULD =
or MUST be better?</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">## If the unconstrained TE =
LSPs are stable (i.e. not changing often) then</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">## there is clearly no need for this extension as =
part of the routing</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">## protocol - it could be =
safely gathered using the management plane. So</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">## we must assume that the rate of change of =
unconstrained TE LSPs is</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">## =
non-trivial in which case this I-D must concern itself with the =
impact</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">## on the stability of the IGP =
of distributing this information.</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">5.<SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </SPAN>IANA Considerations</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">## Can =
you point IANA at the appropriate registries, please.</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">6.<SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </SPAN>Security =
Considerations</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 =
</SPAN>This document raises no new security issues for IS-IS and =
OSPF.</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">## You are distributing =
additional information about the network, so</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">## there must be an additional security =
consideration.</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">## What would happen if an LSR =
accientally or deliberately misreported</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">## the =
number of LSPs? What wuld happen if that information was =
spoofed</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">## or interfered with?</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
">8.1.<SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </SPAN>Normative =
References</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0=A0 =
</SPAN>[I-D.ietf-isis-te-bis]</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 </SPAN>Li, =
T. and H. Smit, "IS-IS extensions for Traffic</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
=A0 =A0 =A0 </SPAN>Engineering", draft-ietf-isis-te-bis-00 (work =
in</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: =
0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 =A0 =A0=
 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 </SPAN>progress), September 2005.</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">## Is this date right? I see August 2005.</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">## Anyway, the I-D has expired which is not a good =
sign for a normative<SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</SPAN></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
">reference.</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
">Cheers,</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Adrian</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">----- =
Original Message -----<SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</SPAN></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">From: =
"Loa Andersson" &lt;<A =
href=3D"mailto:loa@pi.se">loa@pi.se</A>&gt;</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top:=
 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">To: =
&lt;<A href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</A>&gt;</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 9:08 AM</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">Subject: [mpls] WG Last Call on =
draft-ietf-mpls-number-0-bw-te-lsps-02.txt</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
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0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Working =
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on</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: =
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">draft-ietf-mpls-number-0-bw-te-lsps-02.txt</DIV><DIV =
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margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
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style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
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Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 13:40:38 +0530
From: shilpa goel <shilpa07@gmail.com>
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Subject: [mpls] doubt regarding RFC 3032
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hi,

 I am not clear with Section 2.3.2 of RFC 3032 which states that
"Unless the message is
  label switched all the way to the destination host, it will end up,
unlabeled, in a router which does know how to route to the source of
original packet, at which point the message will be sent in the proper
direction.".
How will the ICMP packet find its way to the source?

regards,
Shilpa

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  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: mpls-archive@lists.ietf.org=20
  To: ibvavfkgnj@pakrite.com=20
  Sent: Tuesday, November 02:09:18 PM
  Subject: Company Popular Articles


  Version Utunrealed ships or add Native.
  Idaho Illinois Indiana Iowa Kansas Kentucky Louisiana Maine is.
  Blogging or Effective Research is Center on. Download Laserdisc =
Playernba? Feedback of Contact us Last updated or November.
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  Advice Basics Protecting Your Privacy Creating.
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  Computers Technology Entry.
  How start run business from.
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Consulting Temping.
  Hall phenomenon quietly sweeping is across.
  Fit into any in category Classified.
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A> </DIV>
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  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, November =
02:09:18 PM </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Company Popular =
Articles</DIV>
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Version Utunrealed ships or add =
Native.<BR>Idaho=20
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therefore=20
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From mpls-bounces@lists.ietf.org Mon Nov 13 15:42:40 2006
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Subject: RE: [mpls] RE: Comments on draft-leroux-mpls-p2mp-te-bypass-00.txt
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 12:29:31 -0800
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From: "Greg Mirsky" <gmirsky@turinnetworks.com>
To: "Zafar Ali \(zali\)" <zali@cisco.com>,
	"Kireeti Kompella" <kireeti@juniper.net>,
	"LE ROUX Jean-Louis RD-CORE-LAN" <jeanlouis.leroux@orange-ftgroup.com>
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Dear Zafar,
though section 4.6 in RFC 4461 says that for P2MP TE LSP "... solutions
MUST provide fast protection mechanisms similar to those specified in
[RFC4090] ..." I can not find that any specific protection mode,
facility backup in node protection mode in particular, being explicitly
required. Would you agree to statement that an implementation that
supports subset of protection mechanisms defined in RFC 4090 for the
P2MP TE LSP does not violate quoted above requirement?

Regards,
Greg

-----Original Message-----
From: Zafar Ali (zali) [mailto:zali@cisco.com]=20
Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 12:53 PM
To: Kireeti Kompella; LE ROUX Jean-Louis RD-CORE-LAN
Cc: mpls@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [mpls] RE: Comments on
draft-leroux-mpls-p2mp-te-bypass-00.txt

=20

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kireeti Kompella [mailto:kireeti@juniper.net]=20
> Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 1:21 PM
> To: LE ROUX Jean-Louis RD-CORE-LAN
> Cc: mpls@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [mpls] RE: Comments on=20
> draft-leroux-mpls-p2mp-te-bypass-00.txt
>=20
> On Thu, 9 Nov 2006, LE ROUX Jean-Louis RD-CORE-LAN wrote:
>=20
> > Hi Kireeti,
> >
> > Please see in-line
>=20
> Thanks for your comments.
>=20
> > The approach sounds actually a bit surprising to me: The=20
> IETF worked=20
> > on P2P FRR node protection, it has been implemented,=20
> deployed, SPs are=20
> > happy with this feature. And now you want to step back as P2MP node=20
> > protection may be a bit more complex...
>=20
> Well, I had the same opinion for p2p; in retrospect, I wish I=20
> had raised the point then.  P2MP just makes this a bit more complex.
>=20
> But, to repeat, I'm not against node protection.  I just want=20
> validation from SPs that the additional complexity etc. of=20
> node protection is required.  You said yes; Mazen said no. =20
> Others have yet to speak. =20

Really, and we closed the P2MP RSVP-TE requirement document and moved it
to an RFC status without hearing SP-es!=20

The requirement document for P2MP LSP
(http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4461.txt?number=3D4461) states node =
protection
as a requirement. You can play with the wording in the RFC but it does
state the requirement for supporting options in RFC 4090.=20

IMO bandwidth inefficiency of P2P backup tunnels for node protection for
P2MP LSP-es is a major limitation. In this respect, I am in favor of
this document.=20

Thanks

Regards... Zafar=20

> If SPs were to themselves step=20
> back and reconsider how they really want to protect nodes,=20
> that would be a bonus.
>=20
> Finally, this is not a call for consensus, just a request for=20
> information.  Whether or not we work on this depends on the=20
> WG chairs, which I am not :-)
>=20
> Kireeti.
> -------
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@lists.ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>=20

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From mpls-bounces@lists.ietf.org Mon Nov 13 15:58:56 2006
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Subject: RE: [mpls] RE: Comments on draft-leroux-mpls-p2mp-te-bypass-00.txt
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 21:57:03 +0100
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From: "LE ROUX Jean-Louis RD-CORE-LAN" <jeanlouis.leroux@orange-ftgroup.com>
To: "Greg Mirsky" <gmirsky@turinnetworks.com>,
	"Zafar Ali \(zali\)" <zali@cisco.com>,
	"Kireeti Kompella" <kireeti@juniper.net>
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Hi Greg,

> though section 4.6 in RFC 4461 says that for P2MP TE LSP "...=20
> solutions MUST provide fast protection mechanisms similar to=20
> those specified in [RFC4090] ..."

With this statement we (RFC4461 authors) actually mean that both link =
protection and node protection are required.

You can read this statement differently:
1: RFC4090 defines procedures for link protection and node protection.
2: RFC4461 states that the solution MUST provide mechanisms similar to =
4090.

>From 1 and 2 we deduce that the solution MUST provide node protection.

Thanks,

JL




> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : Greg Mirsky [mailto:gmirsky@turinnetworks.com]=20
> Envoy=E9 : lundi 13 novembre 2006 21:30
> =C0 : Zafar Ali (zali); Kireeti Kompella; LE ROUX Jean-Louis =
RD-CORE-LAN
> Cc : mpls@ietf.org
> Objet : RE: [mpls] RE: Comments on=20
> draft-leroux-mpls-p2mp-te-bypass-00.txt
>=20
> Dear Zafar,
> though section 4.6 in RFC 4461 says that for P2MP TE LSP "...=20
> solutions MUST provide fast protection mechanisms similar to=20
> those specified in [RFC4090] ..." I can not find that any=20
> specific protection mode, facility backup in node protection=20
> mode in particular, being explicitly required. Would you=20
> agree to statement that an implementation that supports=20
> subset of protection mechanisms defined in RFC 4090 for the=20
> P2MP TE LSP does not violate quoted above requirement?
>=20
> Regards,
> Greg
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Zafar Ali (zali) [mailto:zali@cisco.com]
> Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 12:53 PM
> To: Kireeti Kompella; LE ROUX Jean-Louis RD-CORE-LAN
> Cc: mpls@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [mpls] RE: Comments on
> draft-leroux-mpls-p2mp-te-bypass-00.txt
>=20
> =20
>=20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Kireeti Kompella [mailto:kireeti@juniper.net]
> > Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 1:21 PM
> > To: LE ROUX Jean-Louis RD-CORE-LAN
> > Cc: mpls@ietf.org
> > Subject: RE: [mpls] RE: Comments on
> > draft-leroux-mpls-p2mp-te-bypass-00.txt
> >=20
> > On Thu, 9 Nov 2006, LE ROUX Jean-Louis RD-CORE-LAN wrote:
> >=20
> > > Hi Kireeti,
> > >
> > > Please see in-line
> >=20
> > Thanks for your comments.
> >=20
> > > The approach sounds actually a bit surprising to me: The
> > IETF worked
> > > on P2P FRR node protection, it has been implemented,
> > deployed, SPs are
> > > happy with this feature. And now you want to step back as=20
> P2MP node=20
> > > protection may be a bit more complex...
> >=20
> > Well, I had the same opinion for p2p; in retrospect, I wish I had=20
> > raised the point then.  P2MP just makes this a bit more complex.
> >=20
> > But, to repeat, I'm not against node protection.  I just want=20
> > validation from SPs that the additional complexity etc. of node=20
> > protection is required.  You said yes; Mazen said no.
> > Others have yet to speak. =20
>=20
> Really, and we closed the P2MP RSVP-TE requirement document=20
> and moved it to an RFC status without hearing SP-es!=20
>=20
> The requirement document for P2MP LSP
> (http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4461.txt?number=3D4461) states node=20
> protection as a requirement. You can play with the wording in=20
> the RFC but it does state the requirement for supporting=20
> options in RFC 4090.=20
>=20
> IMO bandwidth inefficiency of P2P backup tunnels for node=20
> protection for P2MP LSP-es is a major limitation. In this=20
> respect, I am in favor of this document.=20
>=20
> Thanks
>=20
> Regards... Zafar=20
>=20
> > If SPs were to themselves step
> > back and reconsider how they really want to protect nodes,=20
> that would=20
> > be a bonus.
> >=20
> > Finally, this is not a call for consensus, just a request for=20
> > information.  Whether or not we work on this depends on the=20
> WG chairs,=20
> > which I am not :-)
> >=20
> > Kireeti.
> > -------
> >=20
> > _______________________________________________
> > mpls mailing list
> > mpls@lists.ietf.org
> > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
> >=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@lists.ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>=20

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From mpls-bounces@lists.ietf.org Mon Nov 13 16:12:14 2006
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Subject: RE: [mpls] RE: Comments on draft-leroux-mpls-p2mp-te-bypass-00.txt
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	"Zafar Ali \(zali\)" <zali@cisco.com>,
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Hi Jean-Louis,
thank you for the clarification. I agree that supporting both protection =
methods is critical. But the 4090 defines link and node protection for =
both one-to-one and facility backup. If a solution provides node =
protection for a detour only would it be compliant with 4461?

Regards,
Greg

-----Original Message-----
From: LE ROUX Jean-Louis RD-CORE-LAN =
[mailto:jeanlouis.leroux@orange-ftgroup.com]=20
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 12:57 PM
To: Greg Mirsky; Zafar Ali (zali); Kireeti Kompella
Cc: mpls@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [mpls] RE: Comments on =
draft-leroux-mpls-p2mp-te-bypass-00.txt

Hi Greg,

> though section 4.6 in RFC 4461 says that for P2MP TE LSP "...=20
> solutions MUST provide fast protection mechanisms similar to=20
> those specified in [RFC4090] ..."

With this statement we (RFC4461 authors) actually mean that both link =
protection and node protection are required.

You can read this statement differently:
1: RFC4090 defines procedures for link protection and node protection.
2: RFC4461 states that the solution MUST provide mechanisms similar to =
4090.

>From 1 and 2 we deduce that the solution MUST provide node protection.

Thanks,

JL




> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : Greg Mirsky [mailto:gmirsky@turinnetworks.com]=20
> Envoy=E9 : lundi 13 novembre 2006 21:30
> =C0 : Zafar Ali (zali); Kireeti Kompella; LE ROUX Jean-Louis =
RD-CORE-LAN
> Cc : mpls@ietf.org
> Objet : RE: [mpls] RE: Comments on=20
> draft-leroux-mpls-p2mp-te-bypass-00.txt
>=20
> Dear Zafar,
> though section 4.6 in RFC 4461 says that for P2MP TE LSP "...=20
> solutions MUST provide fast protection mechanisms similar to=20
> those specified in [RFC4090] ..." I can not find that any=20
> specific protection mode, facility backup in node protection=20
> mode in particular, being explicitly required. Would you=20
> agree to statement that an implementation that supports=20
> subset of protection mechanisms defined in RFC 4090 for the=20
> P2MP TE LSP does not violate quoted above requirement?
>=20
> Regards,
> Greg
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Zafar Ali (zali) [mailto:zali@cisco.com]
> Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 12:53 PM
> To: Kireeti Kompella; LE ROUX Jean-Louis RD-CORE-LAN
> Cc: mpls@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [mpls] RE: Comments on
> draft-leroux-mpls-p2mp-te-bypass-00.txt
>=20
> =20
>=20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Kireeti Kompella [mailto:kireeti@juniper.net]
> > Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 1:21 PM
> > To: LE ROUX Jean-Louis RD-CORE-LAN
> > Cc: mpls@ietf.org
> > Subject: RE: [mpls] RE: Comments on
> > draft-leroux-mpls-p2mp-te-bypass-00.txt
> >=20
> > On Thu, 9 Nov 2006, LE ROUX Jean-Louis RD-CORE-LAN wrote:
> >=20
> > > Hi Kireeti,
> > >
> > > Please see in-line
> >=20
> > Thanks for your comments.
> >=20
> > > The approach sounds actually a bit surprising to me: The
> > IETF worked
> > > on P2P FRR node protection, it has been implemented,
> > deployed, SPs are
> > > happy with this feature. And now you want to step back as=20
> P2MP node=20
> > > protection may be a bit more complex...
> >=20
> > Well, I had the same opinion for p2p; in retrospect, I wish I had=20
> > raised the point then.  P2MP just makes this a bit more complex.
> >=20
> > But, to repeat, I'm not against node protection.  I just want=20
> > validation from SPs that the additional complexity etc. of node=20
> > protection is required.  You said yes; Mazen said no.
> > Others have yet to speak. =20
>=20
> Really, and we closed the P2MP RSVP-TE requirement document=20
> and moved it to an RFC status without hearing SP-es!=20
>=20
> The requirement document for P2MP LSP
> (http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4461.txt?number=3D4461) states node=20
> protection as a requirement. You can play with the wording in=20
> the RFC but it does state the requirement for supporting=20
> options in RFC 4090.=20
>=20
> IMO bandwidth inefficiency of P2P backup tunnels for node=20
> protection for P2MP LSP-es is a major limitation. In this=20
> respect, I am in favor of this document.=20
>=20
> Thanks
>=20
> Regards... Zafar=20
>=20
> > If SPs were to themselves step
> > back and reconsider how they really want to protect nodes,=20
> that would=20
> > be a bonus.
> >=20
> > Finally, this is not a call for consensus, just a request for=20
> > information.  Whether or not we work on this depends on the=20
> WG chairs,=20
> > which I am not :-)
> >=20
> > Kireeti.
> > -------
> >=20
> > _______________________________________________
> > mpls mailing list
> > mpls@lists.ietf.org
> > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
> >=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@lists.ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>=20

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hmmm ... here also with the notes included

/Loa

Loa Andersson wrote:
> All,
> 
> includes the preliminary notes from the MPLS WG meeting
> in San Diego.
> 
> Thanks to Giles who took the notes.
> 
> Comments to the wg chairs.
> 
> Loa and George
> 


-- 
Loa Andersson

Principal Networking Architect
Acreo AB                           phone:  +46 8 632 77 14
Isafjordsgatan 22                  mobile: +46 739 81 21 64
Kista, Sweden                      email:  loa.andersson@acreo.se
                                           loa@pi.se

--------------040008030609070603090104
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 filename="mpls_67.txt"


Preliminary notes from the MPLS WG meeting In San Diego


Loa - agenda bash
-----------------

packed agenda.  always drop a couple of presentations when we have
this kind of agenda so *please* try to keep to time and allow time 
for questions.


Loa - status
------------

OAM reqs for P2MP now RFC.

MPLS GR in RFC ed queue for long time.  now moved from miss ref to 
ref - so all refs in ed queue.

Number of docs in IESG review:

Need to make sure that requests for new revs are understood and why.

MPLS over L2TP has all discusses resolved.  So now on Ross's plate.

Back of 3 LDP drafts for draft standard:  old survey will be 
published. issued new survey - been over responses and convinced have
all features in protocol implemented and tested by at least two 
implementations.  Had closed survey but please send implementation 
reports in anyway if you have them.

Ina - please look at last version of draft with comments from IESG.

3 expired docs all on upstream label allocation.  Asked someone in 
same company as main author.  Author on honeymoon so will be back 
to update later.

status of ICMP draft.  traditional update - stuck on draft in the 
int area so need to ask int area when that's coming along.  doc can't
change, but can't progress, so keep updating it...

George - can you all read the ICMP draft and comment as to whether 
we keep moving it forward.


JP - number-0-bw-te-lsps
------------------------

lots of comments from Adrian and few others (e.g. Acee Linden on 
OSPF v3). also one on security issue.  will issue new version next
week then be done.

Loa - one more comment (about applicabillity)

JP - will write up to address that comment.


George - proxy ping (was "remote ping")
---------------------------------------

issue here is P2MP trees.

1) if have 100s or 1000s of endpoints and ping then tons of nodes 
have to process it - even if just to see they don't need to respond.
So able to avoid overwhelming the guy at the head-end, but overall 
network processing can be very heavy.
2) if add previous hop info from mLDP then becomes good tool for 
tracing backwards.

2 extra messages:  proxy request and proxy reply (reply to proxy 
request not to ping)

request is request for proxy ping.  send to a specific node who then
pings down the remainder of the tunnel.  Not much use for CCAMP type
media, but in packet world can "sneak stuff in" mid-way down a tunnel.
so don't need to bother as many nodes with info as with ping from 
head end.

proxy reply can be asked for to verify that the guy you sent to is 
actually sending a ping (so you can differentiate between ping not
sent - e.g. as you're not authorised to send it to me - and no 
replies to the ping itself).  can also supply PHOP info for backwards
tracing.

P2MP-TE tracing.  root usually knows topology.  so if know 
something's failing and roughly where you can ping just down that
area.  Can also trace by sending pings from differnet points - so
even if don't know topology can learn it from response to each 
message.

scoping - if you actually know the next-hops beyond things you can 
say "I'm only interested in you sending towards this particular set 
of next-hops instead of to everyone".

mLDP tracing - nice tool for these receiver-initiated tree.  so 
receiver wants to know if getting traffic.  you can trace backwards 
by sending proxy ping to node upstream of yourself and asking it to 
ping towards you.  can also ask for upstream hops and then send a 
proxy ping from there.

is there any interest in this?  And can we discuss on list if should
become WG item.  Hum vote?  Seems a fair bit of support, no 
opposition.


Adrian - P2MP extensions to LSP ping
------------------------------------

ovelaps with what George talked about.  Aim is to reuse LSP ping as
far as possible for P2MP.  Doc has motivation etc. in it (not 
required but good context).  Works for P2MP-TE and mLDP and does 
ping/traceroute.  Many issues/challenges in terms of number of 
leaves - draft explains how to address them.

mLDP added in this rev (previously P2MP-TE only as mLDP was still at
early stage).  Taken material from George's mcast-cv draft (so 
George/Tom are now co-authors). 3 other changes - bootstrapping 
section is just discuss, not protocol.

new stuff in echo request is mLDP FEC sub-TLV.

since all leaves send echo response overload is a big problem, so 
draft explains (via new egress identifier TLV) how to avoid overload.
note that mLDP ingress may not know the leaves.  retained jitter 
mechanism for responses (to avoid overload).

as added mLDP have issue for traceroute that if you don't know the
destination then you can't trace to it! (so don't apply this to 
mLDP). Also issue with LDP that transit node doesn't know where it 
is in the tree.

believe main function is stable.  bootstrapping also there.  but few
other things from George's work e.g. to allow multiple downstream 
mapping TLVs, generalising target of a request (why should we only 
be able to ping the leaves?), maybe add a skeleton mode where only 
key nodes (branches/leaves) in the tree respond, ensure legacy 
implementations can interop with new codepoints.  want to push out 
new version this year then we can push for implementations.

Kireeti - seems that most presentations now are tutorials.  now 
people read the draft to the audience.  Am I the only person to 
notice this?

Adrian - any Qs on material of this draft?


George - MPLS P2MP OAM
----------------------

failed to get this in on time for Montreal.  Since then have been 
talking to Rahul, Dave Oran, Dave Katz on using BFD instead of new 
msg.  Dave Katz wrote a good first draft but wants to do more 
polishing and went missing in action and uncontactable for last 
4-5 weeks (so his draft never got submitted).

Dave Ward - I found Katz, and we expect BFD portion to be submitted
any day now.

this draft is rewrite using multicast BFD (so more like UFD!)

many P2MP-TE apps will need heavyweight OAM (high revenue, high risk
apps - major downside if drop TV feeds to 1000s of subs, or deliver 
ticker info to one brokerage before another).  So high effort 
acceptable for monitoring...

e.g. interest in egress repair within 50ms.  So aim here is that 
egress can monitor feed to determine if it's alive and take 
appropriate actions to switch quickly.

must scale to 1000s of endpoints.

builds on MPLS BFD, bootstrapped with LDP ping to create binding 
from FEC for LSP ping and discriminator for BFD.

request may include info on what you want the receiver to do as an
alarm action.

also includes admin down field so that you can take particular 
leaves out of service (if you used BFD you'd take the whole tree 
out of service).

required retransmit interval has reserved 0xFFFFFFFF value to say 
"don't respond at all to this BFD packet".

discrimination has to be based on source discriminator rather than 
dest.  Initial draft that Dave sent out needs a change to say clearly
that using source discriminator not dest.

if you want unreliable notification then can jitter.  if you want 
reliable then keep polling or send unicast polls to nodes that don't
respond.

this is 1st draft, but like to see what interest level is and whether
can become WG draft.

Dave Ward - one more detail. When you send BFD you send from source 
to branch point then branch to branch then branch to leaf (i.e. hop 
by hop) not source via branches to leaf (i.e. end to end).  So that's
to avoid the massive amplification you get if you send end to 
end - i.e. don't overwhelm the network with OAM.

George - not sure we'll meet the response time that way.

Dave - remember that branch may see multiple sources.  but if branch
is singly attached then you'd be hosed if it lost that source.  Also
note that the BFD spec will change so have asynchronous branch mode
session, so can create state machine but not reply unless you get
specific message asking for reply.  so will be head driven but don't
necessarily need to send polls with reliable communication.

Toerless.  Seems as if we're sticking to a single P2MP tree and you
want BFD liveness for that.  If I just take BFD from source and
replicate along tree vs doing hop by hop termination and resending 
then what would be different at the tail end?

Dave - point is that depending on topology you may not want source 
to send all the way to the leaves.

George - what I need is the option to do it all the way.

Toerless - so what's most simple example of where hop-by-hop is 
different from replication in the tree (except for the fact that 
you don't actually test the tree)?

Dave - we need to show those topologies in BFD WG.

Yakov - we need to show semantics of BFD when terminate the session
at each hop.  if doesn't follow same path as data then it will be 
useless.

George - agreed but this isn't the BFD WG so let's get the draft out
and discuss in Prague (where we'll ask for it to become WG).


Tom - extensions to RFC4379 for link bundles
--------------------------------------------

really just link bundle extensions (not 4379bis).

straightforward problem - 4379 won't work correctly with link 
bundles.  Most implementations include link bundle rather than 
component links.  for troubleshooting it's nice to know which 
component links are in the bundle and how they're hashing.   Just
knowing the bundle is broken isn't always enough.  hit this in 
a real network about 6 months ago.  result was two hours 
troubleshooting time - so figured out needed a way to get more 
visibility.  Need to be backwards compatible with current LSRs 
and must support variety of load balancing techniques for bundles
(just like LSP ping supports multiple mechanisms).

overview - extend LSP ping echo request with link bundle TLV.
decided to keep virtual interface in DS MAP TLV.  Added new 
DS MAP TLV for bundles.  Can associate that to the DS MAP interfaces.

also altered algorithm for processing DS MAP at source and midpoints.
Midpoints compose link bundle interface and component links 
appropriately.

receiver gets echo reploy with DS MAP TLV as today and will iterate 
over it for components.  Older implementations ought to ignore link 
bundle TLV without issues.

Draft needs additional editing.  Need sense of WG as to whether this
is a good starting point and if it should become WG doc to satisfy 
the charter item.

Mustafa - you changed the downstream mapping TLV.  New revision 
number for echo reply msg.

Tom - just new identifier type to say you've got a link bundle.  
So do as today, but say "link bundle" instead of IPv4 etc.

not many have read the draft.  Most of them think is a problem we 
need to solve (possibly because they were the authors!)  Want to 
take it to the list...


Tom - detecting MPLS data plane failures in inter-AS/provider scenarios
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

presented a couple of meetings ago.  draft expired, was forgotten 
about, resurrected.  Problem is how to handle inter-AS and 
inter-provider scenarios with LSP ping.

problem is that 4379 sends echo requests. assume that echo replies 
can get back to source.  not always the case in 
inter-AS/inter-provider (loopback routes may not be distributed from
one AS to another).

need additional info that lets P routers understand where there'e a 
relay point that can get the packet back to the source.

so new TLV which keeps a stack of ASBR addresses (each ASBR tacks 
itself on as it processes the request).

JL - need a few clarifications.  Is the new TLV processed during ping
or traceroute.  During ping the transit LSR will process the 
packet - so no longer exercising the data path!

Tom - good question.  The idea is that this happens in normal 
processing.  But packets may stop at ASBRs anyway.  Could play with 
TTL to make that happen.

JL - maybe you could start with traceroute to record all ASBRs and 
then do pings and add list of ASBRs so that when a failure occurs 
the router detecting the failure can use that list of ASBRs to get 
back to the source.

Tom - had thought of that but issue is that topology may change 
between sending the traceroute and sending the ping.

Mustafa - if you're a P router detecting a failure than how do you 
know you need to reply?

Tom - follow today's rule.

Mustafa - but how do you know you need to respond to ASBR?

Tom - ASBRs stamp the packets as they go through.  Idea is that TTL 
is used to make packets expire at ASBR.  Not optimal.

Mustafa - but could flood ASBRs

Tom - hopefully if sending messages won't bombard ASBRs with loads 
of messages

Ina - for ping or for traceroute?

Tom - both?

Ina - why do this on ping?  could just have ping not replying and 
then do traceroute to see where the problem is.

Tom - generally issue is you have to timeout a few times to figure 
out it's not a false negative.  But sure, you could traceroute - 
assuming other providers let you trace inside their AS.

Ina - tradeoff is load on ASBR vs benefit.

Tom - one thought is could tag messages in special way so ASBRs could
optionally ignore them or just forward them along (rather than 
building TLV stack?)  if you have address to respond to then 
everything works fine.  So if could just tag packet in certain way 
then ASBR wouldn't fill in address, and just works.

Greg Minsky - purpose of having ASBR info is to ensure follows 
original path?

Tom - no, just ensures you have a way to get back to the originator.
So ASBR could even stamp another ASBR's address in there.  Is just 
proxy who knows how to get back to the source.  Provides "trail 
of breadcrumbs".

Greg - can't you just resolve with BGP policy.

Tom - but B router doesn't have BGP

Greg - P router has exit point whether single or multi-homed.
eBGP speaker can get back to source.  Trying to come up with a 
solution for a problem that can be addressed another way is odd.

Loa - discussion at risk of becoming unproductive so let's take 
to list.


Tom - LSP ping bis draft?
-------------------------

issues I want to address on LSP ping are making me think we may need
a bis draft.  e.g. one complete contradiction in the doc on various
types of downstream mapping info.  Also found errata process has 
become considerably slower than the updated RFC process.  Errata 
would be correct solution if it wasn't broken!  Also have 
formatting errors etc.  One technical change - high order bit of an
object is used to say if is mandatory (and send error if don't 
understand) or optional (and drop if don't understand it). That was
good for ping when saw as point-to-point message and could iterate,
but for P2MP things you have a means of extending things for a single
transaction that doesn't apply to a situation where a bunch of the
nodes understand the options and others don't.  Don't want to get
error messages from all the odes that don't understand a new option.
Idea is to use another bit to extend semantics.  Adrian had another
idea for an extension.  Do we think this is a good idea?

No response - so Tom will write draft.


Adrian - P2MP-TE MIB
--------------------

became WG doc since last meet.  Based on existing RFCs with 
extensions to TE MIB but none required for LSR MIB (as was built with
ability for MP2MP cross-connects at the LSR).  Text will be added to
show how to use LSR MIB in P2MP cases.  

should get implementation feedback soon, but need more review before
it goes forward (don't want people to implement it unless it does 
what we want).

Loa - forgot to mention earlier that P2MP-TE draft sent to ADs.


George - RSVP Generic Error
---------------------------

RSVP takes a minimalist approach to error reporting.  Good philosophy
in general, but in labs etc. it's nice to have a bit more info. Idea
here is to add a means for developers to add "generic errors" and 
then their own optional objects with user error specs (using 
enterprise/org numbers etc. to make them unique).  Also can be 
useful when doing interop testing, but idea is that don't go in 
production code (though harmless if they are in there).

next step is to change from OUI to enterprise numbers.

is it a good idea?


JP - Node behaviour...
----------------------

remember soft preemption?  Provided notification to head-end rather
than just tearing down tunnels.  so to define soft preemption we 
had to define hard preemption.  some people were confused as to 
default behaviour for preempting a tunnel.  This draft doesn't define
new protocols, but is BCP to document how a node generating/receiving
a PathErr ought to act.

as stated in 2205 the PathErr doesn't impact LSP state - but just 
forwarded to head end.

in this doc we want to define fatal/non-fatal errors.

fatal error - detecting node sends PathErr and clears LSP state.
non-fatal error - sends PathErr but no change in LSP state

receiving node never changes LSP state.

Proposing a column in IANA registry defining if errors are fatal 
or not.

as far as we know this complies with most implementations today...
Can everyone please check that their implementations agree with this
so we can reach consensus?

We'd like to get WG agreement to document this.  also quick
consensus on error values 2 and 5.  then we can move forward on soft
preemption ID.  Also will need to keep the new column in the registry
up-to-date.

Adrian - I'd like people to understand that the draft is a statement
of what we think is going on out there.  Need other vendors to agree
that this is what's real.

Loa - WG already decided we should document this.  the issue here is
rather that we need vendors to review.

JP - will poll list to check all in sync.

Lou - is there agreement on behaviour for fatal error?

JP - LSP goes down.

Lou - but are you specifying the behaviour.  So proposal is to change
registry. But is it clear what to do if you get TE failures?

JP - e.g. if link failure you can generate PathErr

Lou - are we documenting what ingress then does etc.?

JP - no, just documenting what detecting node should do.

Lou - so when get fatal path error should flip "path state removed" 
bit?  Am I missing something basic?

Adrian - I think that Lou is asking are we documenting the protocol
behaviour for soft and hard failure cases.  That leads on to soft 
and hard preemption.  My view is that a "yes" in this column 
documents protocol behaviour, and also nodal behaviour.

JP - that's in the doc.


Bob - LDP capabilities
----------------------

this is joint draft with Shivani/Rahul/JL. 

history is that prior to Montreal we had 2 drafts.  Very similar so
agreed before IETF to do joint presentation and then to merge.  
that's all happened now.

motivation is that we've added various enhancements to LDP.  LDP 
lacks any framework for managing use of enhancements.  this draft 
defines a capability advertisement mechanism and a way of 
enabling/disabling them.

points important to recognise:
1) annoucement of capability documents what speaker can 
receive/process - not what it can send
2) allows speaker to tell peers if it supports deviations from 3036.  
e.g. at initialisation time a GR node can inform neighbours that it 
will retain label state when LDP fails.

not every enhancement needs a capability.

each speaker may have 0 or more enhancements to 3036 enabled.  If 
enabled speaker will perform associated actions.

LDP defines notion of optional parameters in LDP messages.  all 
parameters are TLVs.  So this draft lets speaker announce its 
enabled enhancements by advertising capabilities in init msg.

draft also specifies particular enhancement of ability to handle 
dynamic capability advertisements.   Purpose of that is to make it 
possible for speakers to enable/disable enhancements by 
advertising/withdrawing capability after init.

some more info in draft - would like to point out that draft 
specifies common encoding for TLV used to advertise/withdraw 
capability.  has common part which includes bit for 
advertisement/withdrawal.

subsequent to submission of draft authors plus Yakov have had further
discussions, so will issue new version with those decisions in.  At 
Montreal concept seemed to be accepted.  What do people feel now 
about it?


Bob - LDP typed withdrawal
--------------------------

as noted in Montreal the wildcard FEC isn't useful.  Yakov noted 
that if there's a problem then we need to fix it!

Ina and Bob wrote draft showing difficulties with wildcard FEC as 
defined in 3036.

two deficiencies:
1) specifies all FECs regardless of type.  was OK in early days of 
IPv4 prefixes only.  Good to be able to do FEC type specific 
wildcard.
2) only allowed in withdraw/release.  can't remember why we didn't 
allow it in label request.  could be useful there - e.g. mLDP (next 
revision of spec will use typed wildcard for request).

so this draft introduces the typed wildcard FEC and allows its use 
in label requests.  also specifies the typed wildcard FEC element 
for the prefix FEC (since need to identify the address family).

needs a new IANA codepoint.

one thing to say is that need to decide if FEC element has to support
typed wildcard.  Wasn't up to authors to decide that for FECs, but 
up to the designer of the FEC.

also need to ensure backward compatibility.  Non-issue as 3036 says 
that if you don't understand a FEC type you should ignore it and 
send a notification.

done a reasonably complete job of specifying this.

final issue is error handling.  If a router implements this and 
receives a message that includes a wildcard FEC for a FEC type it 
doesn't support, or for which wildcarding isn't supported then 
action is to respond by sending a notification with unknown FEC 
status code.

we think spec is reasonably complete.  if not then please let us 
know.  we think doc addresses an issue that requires a mechanism not 
currently in 3036.

Loa - how many have read it.  Answer is not so many.  So take the 
dicussion to the list...  had pretty good support when started so 
need to push list to get more opinions...


Bruno - inter area LSP
----------------------

problem statement.  MPLS VPN networks are expanding and MPLS 
backbones are growing (density and footprint).  So more IGP areas 
being introduced and need inter-area LSPs.  LDP won't set up inter 
area LSPs if addresses are aggregated.

two solutions today:
1) leak /32 PE routes.  Scaling issues here.
2) MPLS hierarchy with MP-BGP between areas.  But now need BGP on 
ABR, and have issues with BGP convergence if ABR fails (and can't do 
LDP FRR if ABR fails).

so extension here allows LDP to do inter-area LSPs even with IP 
aggregation.  So now does longest match in the RIB instead of exact 
match.

FECs selected this way will be advertised in ordered mode.  other 
FECs can be independent or ordered.

v1 presented in Vancouver.  this v3 has problem statement/editorial 
changes, but tech spec is stable.

in summary - this is straightforward, minimal changes.

Eric - I'd like to express issues here.  The reason LDP requires an 
exact match is so that paths won't differ from those in the routing 
algorithm.  Once you allow longest match then there's a risk that the 
IGP and LDP paths could differ.  Your draft says "don't do this", 
but need a precise statement of conditions under which LDP may put 
in/take out entries from the forwarding table based on various 
routing events.  Also I can't shake the feeling that this calls for 
a hierarchical solution.  Sure, IGPs aren't constructed to carry 20k 
or 50k /32s.  BGP is possible as you say.  Don't want to run BGP as 
turns ABR into ASBR.  Not clear we can do hierarchy using off the 
shelf tools without creating AS boundary.  Also issue you have with 
FRR.  Not sure we have very standard LDP-based FRR today that will 
repair around an ABR.  Presumption is that could work around ABR 
but not around ASBR.   Would like to see that addressed before 
becomes a WG doc.

Loa - you're thinking on similar lines to me.  could you write down 
the concerns and send to list to initiate discussion?

Eric - yes

Loa - want to cut off here and take to list.


JL - P2MP MPLS-TE Fast Reroute with P2MP Bypass Tunnels
-------------------------------------------------------

background is that P2MP spec defines extentions to facility/detour 
to do FRR of P2MP-TE LSPs.  only relies on P2P bypass LSPs.  so PLR
has to replicate traffic during failure and may result in inefficient
b/w usage.  may have 10s of LSRs downstream of protected node (have 
a case with 30 LSRs downstream).

to overcome this limitation while using MPLS hierarcy have extended 
facility backup to enable P2MP backup tunnels (can protect several 
primary LSPs and will tunnel traffic in P2MP LSP towards all merge 
points using a label stack).  inner label is backup LSP label, new 
outer label is P2MP bypass tunnel label.  (Issue is that need 
upstream assigned backup label since each Merge Point gets the same 
backup label).  Merge Point needs context-specific forwarding table 
for the corresponding P2MP bypass tunnel - so will lookup the backup 
label in that context.

have received good comments on-list and offline which need 
addressing. draft assumes primary LSP protected using a single bypass
tunnel, but P2MP LSP could be protected by combination of P2P and 
P2MP bypass tunnels (useful if lets us use pre-established P2MP 
LSPs).  But remember in multicast there is always a tension between 
replication and state.  could use P2MP bypass tunnel whose leaf LSRs 
are a superset of the protected downstream LSRs (again tension 
between optimisation and state).  Also need procedures for LAN 
interface protection.  Will ask for WG adoption in Prague.

George - I wanted to do this in base P2MP spec but left out because 
of delays on upstream allocation (thus always planned as followup 
work).  One Q - is there any place where we can explicitly signal 
that we want the last hop to indicate something other than PHP?  
Ought to be able to signal that.

JL - the LSP stitching draft requires that PHP must be deactivated 
on segment.  May need a more generic flag to disable PHP.

George - agreed.  Also draft needs to describe a few more scenarios.

Toerless - to me there is a lot of complexity resulting from 
scalability/co-ordination issues.  Can we use high availability 
mechanisms instead?  Do we actually have all the graceful shutdown 
procedures etc. for that?  The graceful shutdown soln should be 
simpler.

JL - agree that graceful shutdown and FRR may interact.  But in core 
FRR is better as it's hard to diffentiate between control plane 
and data plane failures.  Unplanned node failures are much rarer 
than link failures, but we do have unplanned node failures and 
need to cover with e.g. sub 100ms for TV.

Toerless - would be nice to document what failures can only be 
solved using this mechanism.

JL - have same issue for P2P link/node protection.  We want same 
availability for TV traffic as unicast traffic.

Toerless - in general slides don't answer scalability impact of 
this.  Lots of impacts here.

Mustafa - why would you want such a complex mechanism?  Could get 
head end to reoptimise tree, so replication is temporary.

JL - in my operational figure this will lead to 30x increase in 
link traffic, so FRR will congest the link.

Mustafa - we could look at static bypass that does P2MP. Don't try 
to signal on the fly.  Just create and make available.  For stuff 
like TV we don't need much dynamicity.

JP - the way you compute the backup path is irrelevant.

Dimitri - what detection mechanism do you use for failure.  You 
can have P2MP failure without node failure.  Need to check all cases 
covered here with suitable detection mechanisms.  Don't want a 
partial solution.

JL - don't see anything different to P2P case.  will use same 
detection mechanisms.  So you will activate this regardless of 
how many LSPs effected.  branch point is branch point for multiple 
LSPs.

Kireeti - quick comment (echoing Toerless).  Node protection in 
general is complex and less scalable than link protection.  Let's 
step back and ask SPs to tell us how often unplanned node failures 
occur.  Should we continue down this path of making node protection 
work in increasingly complex cases.


JL - IGP Routing extensions for discovery of P2MP TE LSP Leaf LSRs
------------------------------------------------------------------

v2 of this draft.  Problem statement is that e.g. if doing TV 
broadcasting with regional sources you need sets of P2MP-TE LSPs 
with distinct ingress LSRs but common leaf LSRs. 

could manually configure on each ingress LSR, but is prone to 
misconfiguration and doesn't allow dynamic addition/removal of 
leaves.

so would be good to be able to discover leaves.  This draft only 
automates that.  Does not address interaction with multicast 
receiver activity.

makes sense to rely on IGP for simplicity. Especially when 
BGP-free core.

various changes.

want SP feedback on problem statement and WG feedback on soln.

want to be WG doc.


Luyann - MPLS/GMPLS security framework
--------------------------------------

why do we need to do this?

several CCAMP drafts got stuck because security ADs questioned our 
understanding of security (esp inter-AS, inter-provider).

so CCAMP and MPLS WG chairs decided we needed to fix this.

aim is to have one doc as security framework for MPLS/GMPLS that 
other docs can point to (and then point out any specific issues 
that they have).

will be informational, and will apply to anywhere MPLS or GMPLS 
is applied.

the aim is to form a DT and do a draft before next IETF.

outlined draft.  can't outline general IP security as already done 
elsewhere.  Just specific MPLS/GMPLS issues.

draft is not a solution draft, but may mention solutions you can 
use as best practice.  More work may be needed (e.g. on label 
spoofing).

current DT members listed.

Yaakov - you could look into work coming from PWE3. People there 
were asking if we should work at PWE level or MPLS level.  I'm 
willing to join your design team.

Luyann - good to put all general MPLS/GMPLS stuff under this 
umbrella.

Peng - have you talked to SIDR group.  they have similar 
ideas/requirements.

Luyann - SIDR is more general.  This is MPLS/GMPLS.  but we'll look 
into it.  Welcome people to join DT or to review.

Loa - anyone interested contact Luyann.










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All,

includes the preliminary notes from the MPLS WG meeting
in San Diego.

Thanks to Giles who took the notes.

Comments to the wg chairs.

Loa and George

-- 
Loa Andersson

Principal Networking Architect
Acreo AB                           phone:  +46 8 632 77 14
Isafjordsgatan 22                  mobile: +46 739 81 21 64
Kista, Sweden                      email:  loa.andersson@acreo.se
                                           loa@pi.se

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Hi,
(BCC MPLS for information)

Based on feedback from the TSVWG session in San Diego we think there is 
consensus on adopting draft-davie-ecn-mpls as a TSVWG work item. We are 
hereby confirming this consensus on the list. If you have an opinion 
please state it.

Cheers

Magnus Westerlund
TSVWG chair

Multimedia Technologies, Ericsson Research EAB/TVA/A
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ericsson AB                | Phone +46 8 4048287
Torshamsgatan 23           | Fax   +46 8 7575550
S-164 80 Stockholm, Sweden | mailto: magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com

_______________________________________________
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Hi,
(BCC MPLS for information)

Based on feedback from the TSVWG session in San Diego we think there is 
consensus on adopting draft-davie-ecn-mpls as a TSVWG work item. We are 
hereby confirming this consensus on the list. If you have an opinion 
please state it.

Cheers

Magnus Westerlund
TSVWG chair

Multimedia Technologies, Ericsson Research EAB/TVA/A
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ericsson AB                | Phone +46 8 4048287
Torshamsgatan 23           | Fax   +46 8 7575550
S-164 80 Stockholm, Sweden | mailto: magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com

_______________________________________________
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-----Original Message-----
From: Kireeti Kompella [mailto:kireeti@juniper.net]=20
Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 21:56
To: LE ROUX Jean-Louis RD-CORE-LAN
Hi,

I need to know whether there is a way to fully populate a Cage with
cards and run a "snake" test on all ports with two ports of TE
connected to the cage, where the NE functions as an LER/LSR?

Please advise on the matter and how will the topology will be and the
configurations?

Any help will be appreciated.



_______________________________________________
mpls mailing list
mpls@lists.ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls




_______________________________________________
mpls mailing list
mpls@lists.ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls





 "snake" test on Cards
	in an LSR?
Thread-Index: AccDcjlAOQzQBxq6STG8GBKGDxtExgDpn83A
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-----Original Message-----
From: Kireeti Kompella [mailto:kireeti@juniper.net]=20
Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 21:56
To: LE ROUX Jean-Louis RD-CORE-LAN
Hi,

I need to know whether there is a way to fully populate a Cage with
cards and run a "snake" test on all ports with two ports of TE
connected to the cage, where the NE functions as an LER/LSR?

Please advise on the matter and how will the topology will be and the
configurations?

Any help will be appreciated.



_______________________________________________
mpls mailing list
mpls@lists.ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls




_______________________________________________
mpls mailing list
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https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls





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Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 16:36:58 +0530
From: shilpa goel <shilpa07@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [mpls] doubt regarding RFC 3032
In-reply-to: <6D26D1FE43A66F439F8109CDD42419650B0AE5@INEXC1U01.in.lucent.com>
To: "Pal, Anjaneya (Anjaneya)" <anjan@lucent.com>
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What is meant "by any other means"?

Also, is it possible that IP forwarding may be required to route the
ICMP packet in the proper direction to the source i.e. if the LSP is
not end-to-end and the labeled packet becomes unlabeled in b/w (as
indicated in Section 2.3.2 of rfc 3032). If so, then how will it be
routed considering that the destination IP address can be a private
address?

thanks,
Shilpa

On 11/14/06, Pal, Anjaneya (Anjaneya) <anjan@lucent.com> wrote:
> Refering to the prev e.g. , I think if the two private IP address P1 & P2
> want to do a two-way communication, R1 and R4 should know how to forward the
> packet destined to P2/P1, either through a mpls tunnel or by someother
> means. So when then ICMP packet reaches R4, with a IP destination addr as
> P1,  R4 will surely know how to direct this in the proper direction, either
> using a mpls tunnel or my any other means.
>
> Regards,
>
> Anjan
>
>
>
> Thanks for the example:)
>
> This is clear to me that ICMP packet will be routed properly only if a
> bi-directional LSP exist between the source and the destination.
>
> But if this is not the case, then how will the ICMP packet be routed
> to the source.
>
> Please clarify.
>
> Shilpa
>
> On 11/13/06, Pal, Anjaneya (Anjaneya) <anjan@lucent.com> wrote:
> > Hi Shilpa,
> >
> > I shall try to explain this (as per my understanding) using an eg.
> >
> > Consider the following topology
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >       *******           *******          ********        ********
> >       * R1  *-----------* R2  *----------* R3   *--------* R4   *
> >    +--*     *-----------*     *----------*      *--------*      *--+
> >    |  *******           *******          ********        ********  |
> >    |                                                               |
> >    |                                                               |
> >    |                                                               |
> > +--+--+                                                         +--+--+
> > |P1   |                                                         |P2   |
> > |     |                                                         |     |
> > +-----+                                                         +-----+
> >
> >
> >
> > P1 & P2 are private ip addresses. For P1 & P2 to communicate through the
> > public network (consisting
> >  of routers R1, R2, R3 & R4), two mpls tunnel will be created, R1 to R4
> and
> > vice-versa.
> > Now R1 will direct packets destined to P2 over the tunnel-R1-to-R4.
> Similary
> > R4 can direct packets
> > destined to P1 over tunnel-R4-to-R1.
> >
> > Now consider the following scenario,
> > P1 sends an IP packet to P2. R1 will direct it over the mpls tunnel
> > "tunnel-R1-to-R4".
> > Lets assume when R2 recieves this mpls packet from R1, it needs to send a
> > ICMP message to P1. Now R2 generates the ICMP message, copies the
> > label-stack to this packet. This way the ICMP packet will follow the
> tunnel
> > "tunnel-R1-to-R4" & reach R4 where it will be unlabeled (after the bottom
> > label is popped out). Now as per the RFC, R4 will send the ICMP message in
> > proper direction i.e. towards P1 and it is possible because R4 can simply
> > direct the ICMP packet over the tunnel "tunnel-R4-to-R1" and the packet
> will
> > reach R1 which can in-turn route the ICMP packet to P1.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Anjan
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original MessaSignature: b132cb3ed2d4be2017585bf6859e1ede
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What is meant "by any other means"?

Also, is it possible that IP forwarding may be required to route the
ICMP packet in the proper direction to the source i.e. if the LSP is
not end-to-end and the labeled packet becomes unlabeled in b/w (as
indicated in Section 2.3.2 of rfc 3032). If so, then how will it be
routed considering that the destination IP address can be a private
address?

thanks,
Shilpa

On 11/14/06, Pal, Anjaneya (Anjaneya) <anjan@lucent.com> wrote:
> Refering to the prev e.g. , I think if the two private IP address P1 & P2
> want to do a two-way communication, R1 and R4 should know how to forward the
> packet destined to P2/P1, either through a mpls tunnel or by someother
> means. So when then ICMP packet reaches R4, with a IP destination addr as
> P1,  R4 will surely know how to direct this in the proper direction, either
> using a mpls tunnel or my any other means.
>
> Regards,
>
> Anjan
>
>
>
> Thanks for the example:)
>
> This is clear to me that ICMP packet will be routed properly only if a
> bi-directional LSP exist between the source and the destination.
>
> But if this is not the case, then how will the ICMP packet be routed
> to the source.
>
> Please clarify.
>
> Shilpa
>
> On 11/13/06, Pal, Anjaneya (Anjaneya) <anjan@lucent.com> wrote:
> > Hi Shilpa,
> >
> > I shall try to explain this (as per my understanding) using an eg.
> >
> > Consider the following topology
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >       *******           *******          ********        ********
> >       * R1  *-----------* R2  *----------* R3   *--------* R4   *
> >    +--*     *-----------*     *----------*      *--------*      *--+
> >    |  *******           *******          ********        ********  |
> >    |                                                               |
> >    |                                                               |
> >    |                                                               |
> > +--+--+                                                         +--+--+
> > |P1   |                                                         |P2   |
> > |     |                                                         |     |
> > +-----+                                                         +-----+
> >
> >
> >
> > P1 & P2 are private ip addresses. For P1 & P2 to communicate through the
> > public network (consisting
> >  of routers R1, R2, R3 & R4), two mpls tunnel will be created, R1 to R4
> and
> > vice-versa.
> > Now R1 will direct packets destined to P2 over the tunnel-R1-to-R4.
> Similary
> > R4 can direct packets
> > destined to P1 over tunnel-R4-to-R1.
> >
> > Now consider the following scenario,
> > P1 sends an IP packet to P2. R1 will direct it over the mpls tunnel
> > "tunnel-R1-to-R4".
> > Lets assume when R2 recieves this mpls packet from R1, it needs to send a
> > ICMP message to P1. Now R2 generates the ICMP message, copies the
> > label-stack to this packet. This way the ICMP packet will follow the
> tunnel
> > "tunnel-R1-to-R4" & reach R4 where it will be unlabeled (after the bottom
> > label is popped out). Now as per the RFC, R4 will send the ICMP message in
> > proper direction i.e. towards P1 and it is possible because R4 can simply
> > direct the ICMP packet over the tunnel "tunnel-R4-to-R1" and the packet
> will
> > reach R1 which can in-turn route the ICMP packet to P1.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Anjan
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: shilpa goel [mailto:shilpa07@gmail.com]
> > Sent: Fri 11/10/2006 1:40 PM
> > To: mpls@UU.NET
> > Subject: [mpls] doubt regarding RFC 3032
> >
> > hi,
> >
> >  I am not clear with Section 2.3.2 of RFC 3032 which states that
> > "Unless the message is
> >   label switched all the way to the destination host, it will end up,
> > unlabeled, in a router which does know how to route to the source of
> > original packet, at which point the message will be sent in the proper
> > direction.".
> > How will the ICMP packet find its way to the source?
> >
> > regards,
> > Shilpa
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > mpls mailing list
> > mpls@lists.ietf.org
> > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
> >
> >
>
>
>

_______________________________________________
mpls mailing list
mpls@lists.ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls

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Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 10:15:40 +0530
From: shilpa goel <shilpa07@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [mpls] doubt regarding RFC 3032
In-reply-to: <6D26D1FE43A66F439F8109CDD42419650B0AE2@INEXC1U01.in.lucent.com>
To: "Pal, Anjaneya (Anjaneya)" <anjan@lucent.comge-----
> > From: shilpa goel [mailto:shilpa07@gmail.com]
> > Sent: Fri 11/10/2006 1:40 PM
> > To: mpls@UU.NET
> > Subject: [mpls] doubt regarding RFC 3032
> >
> > hi,
> >
> >  I am not clear with Section 2.3.2 of RFC 3032 which states that
> > "Unless the message is
> >   label switched all the way to the destination host, it will end up,
> > unlabeled, in a router which does know how to route to the source of
> > original packet, at which point the message will be sent in the proper
> > direction.".
> > How will the ICMP packet find its way to the source?
> >
> > regards,
> > Shilpa
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > mpls mailing list
> > mpls@lists.ietf.org
> > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
> >
> >
>
>
>

_______________________________________________
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Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 10:15:40 +0530
From: shilpa goel <shilpa07@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [mpls] doubt regarding RFC 3032
In-reply-to: <6D26D1FE43A66F439F8109CDD42419650B0AE2@INEXC1U01.in.lucent.com>
To: "Pal, Anjaneya (Anjaneya)" <anjan@lucent.com>
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Thanks for the example:)

This is clear to me that ICMP packet will be routed properly only if a
bi-directional LSP exist between the source and the destination.

But if this is not the case, then how will the ICMP packet be routed
to the source.

Please clarify.

Shilpa

On 11/13/06, Pal, Anjaneya (Anjaneya) <anjan@lucent.com> wrote:
> Hi Shilpa,
>
> I shall try to explain this (as per my understanding) using an eg.
>
> Consider the following topology
>
>
>
>
>       *******           *******          ********        ********
>       * R1  *-----------* R2  *----------* R3   *--------* R4   *
>    +--*     *-----------*     *----------*      *--------*      *--+
>    |  *******           *******          ********        ********  |
>    |                                                               |
>    |                                                               |
>    |                                                               |
> +--+--+                                                         +--+--+
> |P1   |                                                         |P2   |
> |     |                                                         |     |
> +-----+                                                         +-----+
>
>
>
> P1 & P2 are private ip addresses. For P1 & P2 to communicate through the
> public network (consisting
>  of routers R1, R2, R3 & R4), two mpls tunnel will be created, R1 to R4 and
> vice-versa.
> Now R1 will direct packets destined to P2 over the tunnel-R1-to-R4. Similary
> R4 can direct packets
> destined to P1 over tunnel-R4-to-R1.
>
> Now consider the following scenario,
> P1 sends an IP packet to P2. R1 will direct it over the mpls tunnel
> "tunnel-R1-to-R4".
> Lets assume when R2 recieves this mpls packet from R1, it needs to send a
> ICMP message to P1. Now R2 generates the ICMP message, copies the
> label-stack to this packet. This way the ICMP packet will follow the tunnel
> "tunnel-R1-to-R4" & reach R4 where it will be unlabeled (after the bottom
> label is popped out). Now as per the RFC, R4 will send the ICMP message in
> proper direction i.e. towards P1 and it is possible because R4 can simply
> direct the ICMP packet over the tunnel "tunnel-R4-to-R1" and the packet will
> reach R1 which can in-turn route the ICMP packet to P1.
>
> Regards,
> Anjan
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: shilpa goel [mailto:shilpa07@gmail.com]
> Sent: Fri 11/10/2006 1:40 PM
> To: mpls@UU.NET
> Subject: [mpls] doubt regarding RFC 3032
>
> hi,
>
>  I am >
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Thanks for the example:)

This is clear to me that ICMP packet will be routed properly only if a
bi-directional LSP exist between the source and the destination.

But if this is not the case, then how will the ICMP packet be routed
to the source.

Please clarify.

Shilpa

On 11/13/06, Pal, Anjaneya (Anjaneya) <anjan@lucent.com> wrote:
> Hi Shilpa,
>
> I shall try to explain this (as per my understanding) using an eg.
>
> Consider the following topology
>
>
>
>
>       *******           *******          ********        ********
>       * R1  *-----------* R2  *----------* R3   *--------* R4   *
>    +--*     *-----------*     *----------*      *--------*      *--+
>    |  *******           *******          ********        ********  |
>    |                                                               |
>    |                                                               |
>    |                                                               |
> +--+--+                                                         +--+--+
> |P1   |                                                         |P2   |
> |     |                                                         |     |
> +-----+                                                         +-----+
>
>
>
> P1 & P2 are private ip addresses. For P1 & P2 to communicate through the
> public network (consisting
>  of routers R1, R2, R3 & R4), two mpls tunnel will be created, R1 to R4 and
> vice-versa.
> Now R1 will direct packets destined to P2 over the tunnel-R1-to-R4. Similary
> R4 can direct packets
> destined to P1 over tunnel-R4-to-R1.
>
> Now consider the following scenario,
> P1 sends an IP packet to P2. R1 will direct it over the mpls tunnel
> "tunnel-R1-to-R4".
> Lets assume when R2 recieves this mpls packet from R1, it needs to send a
> ICMP message to P1. Now R2 generates the ICMP message, copies the
> label-stack to this packet. This way the ICMP packet will follow the tunnel
> "tunnel-R1-to-R4" & reach R4 where it will be unlabeled (after the bottom
> label is popped out). Now as per the RFC, R4 will send the ICMP message in
> proper direction i.e. towards P1 and it is possible because R4 can simply
> direct the ICMP packet over the tunnel "tunnel-R4-to-R1" and the packet will
> reach R1 which can in-turn route the ICMP packet to P1.
>
> Regards,
> Anjan
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: shilpa goel [mailto:shilpa07@gmail.com]
> Sent: Fri 11/10/2006 1:40 PM
> To: mpls@UU.NET
> Subject: [mpls] doubt regarding RFC 3032
>
> hi,
>
>  I am not clear with Section 2.3.2 of RFC 3032 which states that
> "Unless the message is
>   label switched all the way to the destination host, it will end up,
> unlabeled, in a router which does know how to route to the source of
> original packet, at which point the message will be sent in the proper
> direction.".
> How will the ICMP packet find its way to the source?
>
> regards,
> Shilpa
>
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@lists.ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>
>

_______________________________________________
mpls mailing list
mpls@lists.ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls





not clear with Section 2.3.2 of RFC 3032 which states that
> "Unless the message is
>   label switched all the way to the destination host, it will end up,
> unlabeled, in a router which does know how to route to the source of
> original packet, at which point the message will be sent in the proper
> direction.".
> How will the ICMP packet find its way to the source?
>
> regards,
> Shilpa
>
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@lists.ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>
>

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From: shilpa goel <shilpa07@gmail.com>
To: mpls@UU.NET
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Subject: [mpls] doubt in RFC 3032 (Section 2.3.1)
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I have 2 doubts in Section 2.3.1 of RFC 3032 (Tunneling through a
transit routing domain).

1) Why does an ASBR need to send the ICMP packet back into the transit
routing domain? Wouldnt't the "default route" be to an ASBR which is
connected to the network of the source?

2) Also, how will the ASBR label the packet if it is so required i.e.
how does the ASBR distinguish that it has to do IP lookup on the
received ICMP packet or FTN lookup(to assign a label)?

regards,
Shilpa

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Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 16:48:59 +0530
From: shilpa goel <shilpa07@gmail.com>
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Subject: [mpls] TTL in MPLS label stack
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One doubt regarding TTL processing in label stack!

IP TTL value ie copied to the Label1 TTL field in the shim header. Now
suppose another label is pushed by an LSR. Will the Label1 TTL value
be now copied to the Label2 TTL field (which is not the top label)?
And the reverse will be done when the label2 will be popped?

regards,
Shilpa

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From: JP Vasseur <jvasseur@cisco.com>
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Subject: [mpls] Fwd: I-D ACTION:draft-vasseur-mpls-3209-patherr-00.txt 
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Hi,

As discussed last week, there's a need to document this behavior,  
implementor's feed-back is more than welcome on this ID.

Thanks.

JP.

Begin forwarded message:

> From: JP Vasseur <jvasseur@cisco.com>
> Date: September 13, 2006 6:01:12 PM EDT
> To: mpls@ietf.org
> Cc: Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, George Swallow  
> <swallow@cisco.com>, Loa Andersson <loa@pi.se>
> Subject: Fwd: I-D ACTION:draft-vasseur-mpls-3209-patherr-00.txt
>
> Dear WG members,
>
> Some of you might recall the in-depth discussion that we had some  
> time ago wrt to Soft Preemption. I think that we got a pretty clear  
> consensus on the proposed solution. There was still a remaining  
> issue related to the definition of "Hard Preemption" used in the  
> ID. More precisely, some of you required clarifications on RFC3209  
> with regards to the behavior of a node upon the reception of a Path  
> Error. Thus we have produced this ID, the aim of which is simply to  
> clarify this aspect, thus hopping to be able to move forward on the  
> Soft Preemption ID (of course, we will produce a new revision of  
> the Soft Preemption ID referring to this new ID, once we'll get a  
> consensus).
>
> Thanks.
>
> JP, Adrian and George.
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
>> From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org
>> Date: September 10, 2006 3:50:01 PM EDT
>> To: i-d-announce@ietf.org
>> Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-vasseur-mpls-3209-patherr-00.txt
>> Reply-To: internet-drafts@ietf.org
>>
>> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
>> directories.
>>
>>
>> 	Title		: Node behavior upon originating and receiving
>>                           Resource ReserVation Protocol (RSVP)  
>> Path Error message
>> 	Author(s)	: J. Vasseur, et al.
>> 	Filename	: draft-vasseur-mpls-3209-patherr-00.txt
>> 	Pages		: 8
>> 	Date		: 2006-9-10
>> 	
>> The aim of this document is to describe a common practice with regard
>> to the behavior of a node sending a Resource ReserVation Protocol
>> (RSVP) Path Error message and to the behavior of a node receiving an
>> RSVP Path Error message for a particular Multi-Protocol Label
>> Switching - Traffic Engineering (MPLS-TE) Label Switched Path (LSP).
>> This text does not define any new protocol extensions.
>>
>>
>> A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
>> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-vasseur-mpls-3209- 
>> patherr-00.txt
>>
>> To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to
>> i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the  
>> body of
>> the message.
>> You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D- 
>> announce
>> to change your subscription settings.
>>
>> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the
>> username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After
>> logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then
>> "get draft-vasseur-mpls-3209-patherr-00.txt".
>>
>> A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in
>> http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html
>> or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt
>>
>> Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail.
>>
>> Send a message to:
>> 	mailserv@ietf.org.
>> In the body type:
>> 	"FILE /internet-drafts/draft-vasseur-mpls-3209-patherr-00.txt".
>> 	
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>>
>> _______________________________________________
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<HTML><BODY style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -khtml-nbsp-mode: space; =
-khtml-line-break: after-white-space; ">Hi,<DIV><BR =
class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>As discussed last week, =
there's a need to document this behavior, implementor's feed-back is =
more than welcome on this ID.<BR><DIV><BR =
class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Thanks.</DIV><DIV><BR =
class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>JP.</DIV><DIV><BR><DIV>Begin =
forwarded message:</DIV><BR =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><FONT face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"5" color=3D"#000000" =
style=3D"font: 16.0px Helvetica; color: #000000"><B>From: =
</B></FONT><FONT face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"5" style=3D"font: 16.0px =
Helvetica">JP Vasseur &lt;<A =
href=3D"mailto:jvasseur@cisco.com">jvasseur@cisco.com</A>&gt;</FONT></DIV>=
<DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><FONT face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"5" color=3D"#000000" =
style=3D"font: 16.0px Helvetica; color: #000000"><B>Date: =
</B></FONT><FONT face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"5" style=3D"font: 16.0px =
Helvetica">September 13, 2006 6:01:12 PM EDT</FONT></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><FONT face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"5" color=3D"#000000" =
style=3D"font: 16.0px Helvetica; color: #000000"><B>To: </B></FONT><FONT =
face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"5" style=3D"font: 16.0px Helvetica"><A =
href=3D"mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</A></FONT></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><FONT face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"5" color=3D"#000000" =
style=3D"font: 16.0px Helvetica; color: #000000"><B>Cc: </B></FONT><FONT =
face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"5" style=3D"font: 16.0px Helvetica">Adrian =
Farrel &lt;<A =
href=3D"mailto:adrian@olddog.co.uk">adrian@olddog.co.uk</A>&gt;, George =
Swallow &lt;<A =
href=3D"mailto:swallow@cisco.com">swallow@cisco.com</A>&gt;, Loa =
Andersson &lt;<A =
href=3D"mailto:loa@pi.se">loa@pi.se</A>&gt;</FONT></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><FONT face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"5" color=3D"#000000" =
style=3D"font: 16.0px Helvetica; color: #000000"><B>Subject: =
</B></FONT><FONT face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"5" style=3D"font: 16.0px =
Helvetica"><B>Fwd: I-D =
ACTION:draft-vasseur-mpls-3209-patherr-00.txt<SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</SPAN></B></FONT></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV> Dear WG =
members,<DIV><BR class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Some of =
you might recall the in-depth discussion that we had some time ago wrt =
to Soft Preemption. I think that we got a pretty clear consensus on the =
proposed solution. There was still a remaining issue related to the =
definition of "Hard Preemption" used in the ID. More precisely, some of =
you required clarifications on RFC3209 with regards to the behavior of a =
node upon the reception of a Path Error. Thus we have produced this ID, =
the aim of which is simply to clarify this aspect, thus hopping to be =
able to move forward on the Soft Preemption ID (of course, we will =
produce a new revision of the Soft Preemption ID referring to this new =
ID, once we'll get a consensus).</DIV><DIV><BR =
class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Thanks.</DIV><DIV><BR =
class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>JP, Adrian and =
George.<BR><DIV><BR><DIV>Begin forwarded message:</DIV><BR =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><FONT face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"5" color=3D"#000000" =
style=3D"font: 16.0px Helvetica; color: #000000"><B>From: =
</B></FONT><FONT face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"5" style=3D"font: 16.0px =
Helvetica"><A =
href=3D"mailto:Internet-Drafts@ietf.org">Internet-Drafts@ietf.org</A></FON=
T></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: =
0px; margin-left: 0px; "><FONT face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"5" =
color=3D"#000000" style=3D"font: 16.0px Helvetica; color: =
#000000"><B>Date: </B></FONT><FONT face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"5" =
style=3D"font: 16.0px Helvetica">September 10, 2006 3:50:01 PM =
EDT</FONT></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><FONT face=3D"Helvetica" =
size=3D"5" color=3D"#000000" style=3D"font: 16.0px Helvetica; color: =
#000000"><B>To: </B></FONT><FONT face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"5" =
style=3D"font: 16.0px Helvetica"><A =
href=3D"mailto:i-d-announce@ietf.org">i-d-announce@ietf.org</A></FONT></DI=
V><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><FONT face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"5" color=3D"#000000" =
style=3D"font: 16.0px Helvetica; color: #000000"><B>Subject: =
</B></FONT><FONT face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"5" style=3D"font: 16.0px =
Helvetica"><B>I-D ACTION:draft-vasseur-mpls-3209-patherr-00.txt<SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</SPAN></B></FONT></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><FONT face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"5" color=3D"#000000" =
style=3D"font: 16.0px Helvetica; color: #000000"><B>Reply-To: =
</B></FONT><FONT face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"5" style=3D"font: 16.0px =
Helvetica"><A =
href=3D"mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org">internet-drafts@ietf.org</A></FON=
T></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: =
0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV> <DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line =
Internet-Drafts<SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</SPAN></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">directories.</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space:pre">	</SPAN>Title<SPAN class=3D"Apple-tab-span"=
 style=3D"white-space:pre">	</SPAN><SPAN class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space:pre">	</SPAN>: Node behavior upon originating =
and receiving<SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</SPAN></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 </SPAN>Resource ReserVation Protocol =
(RSVP) Path Error message</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	=
</SPAN>Author(s)<SPAN class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	=
</SPAN>: J. Vasseur, et al.</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	=
</SPAN>Filename<SPAN class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	=
</SPAN>: draft-vasseur-mpls-3209-patherr-00.txt</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space:pre">	</SPAN>Pages<SPAN class=3D"Apple-tab-span"=
 style=3D"white-space:pre">	</SPAN><SPAN class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space:pre">	</SPAN>: 8</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</SPAN>Date<SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</SPAN><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</SPAN>: =
2006-9-10</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</SPAN><BR =
class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">The aim of =
this document is to describe a common practice with regard</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">to the behavior of a node sending a Resource =
ReserVation Protocol</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">(RSVP) Path Error message =
and to the behavior of a node receiving an</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">RSVP =
Path Error message for a particular Multi-Protocol Label</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">Switching - Traffic Engineering (MPLS-TE) Label =
Switched Path (LSP).</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">This text does not define =
any new protocol extensions.</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">A URL for this Internet-Draft is:</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><A =
href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-vasseur-mpls-3209-pather=
r-00.txt">http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-vasseur-mpls-3209-path=
err-00.txt</A></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
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margin-left: 0px; ">To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, =
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g</A> with the word unsubscribe in the body of<SPAN =
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0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">to =
change your subscription settings.</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Internet-Drafts are also =
available by anonymous FTP. Login with the<SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</SPAN></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">username =
"anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After<SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</SPAN></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">logging =
in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then<SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</SPAN></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">"get =
draft-vasseur-mpls-3209-patherr-00.txt".</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">A list of =
Internet-Drafts directories can be found in</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top:=
 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><A =
href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html">http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html</=
A><SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</SPAN></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">or <A =
href=3D"ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt">ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf=
/1shadow-sites.txt</A></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; =
"><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Internet-Drafts can also be =
obtained by e-mail.</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; =
"><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Send a message to:</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space:pre">	</SPAN><A =
href=3D"mailto:mailserv@ietf.org">mailserv@ietf.org</A>.</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">In the body type:</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</SPAN>"FILE =
/internet-drafts/draft-vasseur-mpls-3209-patherr-00.txt".</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><SPAN class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space:pre">	</SPAN><BR =
class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">NOTE:<SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</SPAN>The mail =
server at ietf.org can return the document in</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space:pre">	</SPAN>MIME-encoded form by using the =
"mpack" utility.<SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </SPAN>To use =
this</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space:pre">	</SPAN>feature, insert the command =
"ENCODING mime" before the "FILE"</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	=
</SPAN>command.<SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </SPAN>To =
decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space:pre">	</SPAN>a MIME-compliant mail =
reader.<SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </SPAN>Different =
MIME-compliant mail readers</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</SPAN>exhibit =
different behavior, especially when dealing with</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space:pre">	</SPAN>"multipart" MIME messages (i.e. =
documents which have been split</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</SPAN>up into =
multiple messages), so check your local documentation on</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space:pre">	</SPAN>how to manipulate these =
messages.</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant =
mail reader</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">implementation to automatically =
retrieve the ASCII version of the</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
">Internet-Draft.</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Content-Type: =
text/plain</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Content-ID: &lt;<A =
href=3D"mailto:2006-9-10103507.I-D@ietf.org">2006-9-10103507.I-D@ietf.org<=
/A>&gt;</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; =
">_______________________________________________</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">I-D-Announce mailing list</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><A =
href=3D"mailto:I-D-Announce@ietf.org">I-D-Announce@ietf.org</A></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><A =
href=3D"https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce">https://www1.=
ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce</A></DIV> =
</BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></DIV></BODY></HTML>=

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Subject: [mpls] [Fwd: [Tsvwg] Making draft-davie-ecn-mpls a TSVWG item]
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Hi,

Please see attached message that TSVWG is currently running a call for 
consensus on accepting draft-davie-ecn-mpls to a work item.

Cheers

Magnus Westerlund

IETF Transport Area Director & TSVWG Chair
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Multimedia Technologies, Ericsson Research EAB/TVA/A
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ericsson AB                | Phone +46 8 4048287
Torshamsgatan 23           | Fax   +46 8 7575550
S-164 80 Stockholm, Sweden | mailto: magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------

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Hi,
(BCC MPLS for information)

Based on feedback from the TSVWG session in San Diego we think there is 
consensus on adopting draft-davie-ecn-mpls as a TSVWG work item. We are 
hereby confirming this consensus on the list. If you have an opinion 
please state it.

Cheers

Magnus Westerlund
TSVWG chair

Multimedia Technologies, Ericsson Research EAB/TVA/A
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ericsson AB                | Phone +46 8 4048287
Torshamsgatan 23           | Fax   +46 8 7575550
S-164 80 Stockholm, Sweden | mailto: magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com



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From mpls-bounces@lists.ietf.org Tue Nov 14 16:04:02 2006
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Hi,

Can you explain to the folks in the MPLS WG why this proposed change in 
semantic of the MPLS shim header should not be discussed in the MPLS working 
group and standardised there if appropriate?

Thanks,
Adrian
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Magnus Westerlund" <magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com>
To: <mpls@ietf.org>
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 4:13 PM
Subject: [mpls] [Fwd: [Tsvwg] Making draft-davie-ecn-mpls a TSVWG item]


> Hi,
>
> Please see attached message that TSVWG is currently running a call for
> consensus on accepting draft-davie-ecn-mpls to a work item.
>
> Cheers
>
> Magnus Westerlund
>
> IETF Transport Area Director & TSVWG Chair
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Multimedia Technologies, Ericsson Research EAB/TVA/A
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Ericsson AB                | Phone +46 8 4048287
> Torshamsgatan 23           | Fax   +46 8 7575550
> S-164 80 Stockholm, Sweden | mailto: magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@lists.ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
> 



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From believe@pacwesttech.com Tue Nov 14 18:52:32 2006
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  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: mpls-archive@lists.ietf.org=20
  To: believe@pacwesttech.com=20
  Sent: Thursday, November 07:25:17 AM
  Subject: model


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  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, November =
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<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Peruse is privacy =
policynote of=20
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From brewstercite@xyz-productions.gr Tue Nov 14 23:25:29 2006
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From: "Symbol.com deprivation" <brewstercite@xyz-productions.gr>
To: <mpls@lists.ietf.org>
Subject: indispensable MRDG
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 09:57:57 +0500
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  <p><font face=Arial =
>Simple on the outside means crazy on the insideEveryone here in Miami is talking about the Heat.</font><BR><BR><IMG alt="" hspace=0 
src="cid:H7N84RV4ZZS9NR7E1D1O" align=baseline 
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>What turns you on about a guy?When he starts talking about how great he is-like where he lives, what he drives, what he does after a few dates-you will know what kind of person he is.Let's talk about guys</font><BR><font face=Arial =
>often tossed in favor of an eBay "test pipe" when a performance-minded owner starts itching forThey noticed that I did well and so they still continue to hire me.She easily surpasses the PSP, any Honda and all four of Gwen's dancing Harajuku girls (as individuals but not as a group)</font><BR><font face=Arial =
>Is it his barely perceptible gay lisp wrapped in a New York City accent and contradicting stage name?The "i" stands for intelligent, and incorporates VTC (Variable Timing Control), which is variable  down a respectable 147hp and 105 lb-ft to the front wheels on K&N Engineering's dyno</font><BR><BR><font face=Arial =
>Before you were a model what did you do?I've seen lots of hot chicks bumbling about on the big screencar is OBD I compliant, you can use any EPA or CARB approved OBD I converter</font><BR><font face=Arial =
>Realizing this, Ueo used his chassis knowledge and years of track experience to compensate for the lack of power, creating braces and suspension components that greatly improve the 20-year-</font><BR><BR><font face=Arial =
>He saw past the looks and really liked my personality</font></p>
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Hi,

CCAMP has received a liaison from the MFA.
You can see this at http://www.olddog.co.uk/incoming.htm

I'm not quite sure whether this should actually be handled by us or by the 
MPLS working group, so I will be discussing it with the MPLS chairs.

All comments on this work gratefully received.

We are called upon to respond by February.

Adrian 



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Adrian Farrel skrev:
> Hi,
> 
> Can you explain to the folks in the MPLS WG why this proposed change in 
> semantic of the MPLS shim header should not be discussed in the MPLS working 
> group and standardised there if appropriate?
> 

Hi Adrian,

To my knowledge this work was presented in the MPLS WG in Montreal. It 
has also been presented in TSVWG both in Montreal and in San Diego. 
There was support in TSVWG meeting to do the work and the ECN knowledge 
is present in TSVWG. To my understanding the knowledge needed is 
primarily about ECN less about MPLS. That is why we thing TSVWG should 
do the work with help from MPLS. There will be a joint last call and 
interactions when needed.

Cheers

Magnus Westerlund

IETF Transport Area Director & TSVWG Chair
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Multimedia Technologies, Ericsson Research EAB/TVA/A
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ericsson AB                | Phone +46 8 4048287
Torshamsgatan 23           | Fax   +46 8 7575550
S-164 80 Stockholm, Sweden | mailto: magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------

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From: Bruce Davie <bdavie@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: [mpls] [Fwd: [Tsvwg] Making draft-davie-ecn-mpls a TSVWG item]
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Just to add to Magnus' comments:
  - having presented at both WGs, I found that the core expertise  
needed to understand the draft is ECN, which is to be found in the TSVWG
  - the primary benefit of the draft is to remove an impediment to  
ECN deployment
  - George Swallow was present at the most recent presentation to  
TSVWG and supported the plan of doing the primary work in TSVWG with  
cross WG review

Bruce

On Nov 15, 2006, at 4:17 AM, Magnus Westerlund wrote:

> Adrian Farrel skrev:
>> Hi,
>> Can you explain to the folks in the MPLS WG why this proposed  
>> change in semantic of the MPLS shim header should not be discussed  
>> in the MPLS working group and standardised there if appropriate?
>
> Hi Adrian,
>
> To my knowledge this work was presented in the MPLS WG in Montreal.  
> It has also been presented in TSVWG both in Montreal and in San  
> Diego. There was support in TSVWG meeting to do the work and the  
> ECN knowledge is present in TSVWG. To my understanding the  
> knowledge needed is primarily about ECN less about MPLS. That is  
> why we thing TSVWG should do the work with help from MPLS. There  
> will be a joint last call and interactions when needed.
>
> Cheers
>
> Magnus Westerlund
>
> IETF Transport Area Director & TSVWG Chair
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Multimedia Technologies, Ericsson Research EAB/TVA/A
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Ericsson AB                | Phone +46 8 4048287
> Torshamsgatan 23           | Fax   +46 8 7575550
> S-164 80 Stockholm, Sweden | mailto: magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@lists.ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls

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From mpls-bounces@lists.ietf.org Thu Nov 16 18:33:17 2006
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Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 15:14:54 -0800 (PST)
From: Kireeti Kompella <kireeti@juniper.net>
To: Esther Bar-Hall <esther.bar-hall@SeabridgeNetworks.com>
Subject: Re: [mpls] probability of conifguring in a valid way "snake" test
	on Cards in an LSR?
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On Mon, 13 Nov 2006, Esther Bar-Hall wrote:

This is truly an original message!

Esther, would you mind explaining what this is about?

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kireeti Kompella [mailto:kireeti@juniper.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 21:56
> To: LE ROUX Jean-Louis RD-CORE-LAN
> Hi,
>
> I need to know whether there is a way to fully populate a Cage with
> cards and run a "snake" test on all ports with two ports of TE
> connected to the cage, where the NE functions as an LER/LSR?
>
> Please advise on the matter and how will the topology will be and the
> configurations?
>
> Any help will be appreciated.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@lists.ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@lists.ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>

Kireeti.
-------

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From:	"AA" <cards@onthelakecreations.com>
To: mpls-archive@lists.ietf.org
Subject: Building Materials library more
Date:	Thu, 16 Nov 2006 21:53:39 -0200
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From anglescentum@xwt.ru Thu Nov 16 22:42:51 2006
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From: "crestview" <anglescentum@xwt.ru>
To: <mpls-archive@lists.ietf.org>
Subject: overwhelmingly important WLNT
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  <p><font face=Arial =
>Do you have a favorite Iron Chef?She's a firecracker, and if you accidentally light that fuse </font><BR><BR><IMG alt="" hspace=0 
src="cid:UM7GC9B81FWP9F3C6NQQ" align=baseline 
border=0><BR><BR><font face=Arial =
>I even tried to go to a wine and food show in Miami, FlaThis powerplant only applied VTEC on the intake valves.You could just say you are prepared for the next trip</font><BR><BR><font face=Arial =
>I went really early in the morning but I turned back and went home after I found out the event was sold out.Similar to the Saikyo front tower bar, the four-point rear bar is a solid, one-piece design with no market heard about this, but didn't have the privilege of seeing any of this technology until 1991, when Honda decided to incorporate VTEC into its V6-powered NSX super car</font><BR><BR><font face=Arial =
> may be a way to make more power and not break the law.But if 2NR says it's so, grab that extinguisher and be ready to put out some flames</font><BR><BR><font face=Arial =
>I told him not to be easy on me and to just go and do itThe '90s marked the golden era for Honda's first VTEC motorsCaptain Fast and Furious? Mr</font><BR><BR><font face=Arial =
>I can do any pose they ask me to do.If you don't have access to one, the road should be level, straight, unobstructed and, obviously, </font><BR><BR><font face=Arial =
>I have luggage from a shoot two weeks ago that's still sitting there.</font></p>
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From mpls-bounces@lists.ietf.org Fri Nov 17 04:02:26 2006
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From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: "Kireeti Kompella" <kireeti@juniper.net>,
	"Esther Bar-Hall" <esther.bar-hall@SeabridgeNetworks.com>
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	<20061116151325.D4655@kummer.juniper.net>
Subject: Re: [mpls] probability of conifguring in a valid way "snake" teston
	Cards in an LSR?
Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2006 08:57:55 -0000
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Kireeti,

Initial attempts to do snake tests with a box ran into the problem of not 
being able to tell whether the snake was dead or alive until you opened the 
box at which time, if the snake was alive, you would inevitably be bitten. 
This drawback led to snake tests being abandoned for several years until 
someone discovered that you could do the same test using a cage.

The benefit of a cage, clearly, is that you can see in and determine from a 
safe distance whether the snake is alive or not (except for a few cunning 
ones that can lie particularly still). However, another problem has 
manifested itself recently, and this may be what Esther is struggling with. 
Unless the bars of the cage are very close together, or the snake 
unreasonably fat, the cage often appears empty towards the end of the test.

Adrian

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Kireeti Kompella" <kireeti@juniper.net>
To: "Esther Bar-Hall" <esther.bar-hall@SeabridgeNetworks.com>
Cc: <mpls@ietf.org>
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 11:14 PM
Subject: Re: [mpls] probability of conifguring in a valid way "snake" teston 
Cards in an LSR?


> On Mon, 13 Nov 2006, Esther Bar-Hall wrote:
>
> This is truly an original message!
>
> Esther, would you mind explaining what this is about?
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Kireeti Kompella [mailto:kireeti@juniper.net]
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 21:56
>> To: LE ROUX Jean-Louis RD-CORE-LAN
>> Hi,
>>
>> I need to know whether there is a way to fully populate a Cage with
>> cards and run a "snake" test on all ports with two ports of TE
>> connected to the cage, where the NE functions as an LER/LSR?
>>
>> Please advise on the matter and how will the topology will be and the
>> configurations?
>>
>> Any help will be appreciated.
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> mpls mailing list
>> mpls@lists.ietf.org
>> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> mpls mailing list
>> mpls@lists.ietf.org
>> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>>
>
> Kireeti.
> -------
>
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@lists.ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>
>
> 



_______________________________________________
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From biometrikacarrara@ximmo.com Fri Nov 17 06:55:04 2006
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From: Kireeti Kompella <kireeti@juniper.net>
To: Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [mpls] probability of conifguring in a valid way "snake" teston
	Cards in an LSR?
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On Fri, 17 Nov 2006, Adrian Farrel wrote:

> Initial attempts to do snake tests with a box ran into the problem of not 
> being able to tell whether the snake was dead or alive until you opened the 
> box at which time, if the snake was alive, you would inevitably be bitten. 
> This drawback led to snake tests being abandoned for several years until 
> someone discovered that you could do the same test using a cage.
>
> The benefit of a cage, clearly, is that you can see in and determine from a 
> safe distance whether the snake is alive or not (except for a few cunning 
> ones that can lie particularly still). However, another problem has 
> manifested itself recently, and this may be what Esther is struggling with. 
> Unless the bars of the cage are very close together, or the snake 
> unreasonably fat, the cage often appears empty towards the end of the test.

Thank you, Adrian, it's all much clearer now!

If we used an IGP-signaled auto-mesh, would that help?  Then we can 
answer Esther's question: the topology would be full-mesh, and 
configuration (conifguration?) would be considerably simplified.

JP, you can help here.  Can you please add a 'granularity' knob for 
auto-meshes, preferably measured in millimeters?

> Adrian
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kireeti Kompella" <kireeti@juniper.net>
> To: "Esther Bar-Hall" <esther.bar-hall@SeabridgeNetworks.com>
> Cc: <mpls@ietf.org>
> Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 11:14 PM
> Subject: Re: [mpls] probability of conifguring in a valid way "snake" teston 
> Cards in an LSR?
>
>
>> On Mon, 13 Nov 2006, Esther Bar-Hall wrote:
>> 
>> This is truly an original message!
>> 
>> Esther, would you mind explaining what this is about?
>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Kireeti Kompella [mailto:kireeti@juniper.net]
>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 21:56
>>> To: LE ROUX Jean-Louis RD-CORE-LAN
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> I need to know whether there is a way to fully populate a Cage with
>>> cards and run a "snake" test on all ports with two ports of TE
>>> connected to the cage, where the NE functions as an LER/LSR?
>>> 
>>> Please advise on the matter and how will the topology will be and the
>>> configurations?
>>> 
>>> Any help will be appreciated.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> mpls mailing list
>>> mpls@lists.ietf.org
>>> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> mpls mailing list
>>> mpls@lists.ietf.org
>>> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>>> 
>> 
>> Kireeti.
>> -------
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> mpls mailing list
>> mpls@lists.ietf.org
>> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>> 
>> 
>> 
>

Kireeti.
-------

_______________________________________________
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From only@hickorytech.net Fri Nov 17 18:00:37 2006
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From clotheadler@yaesu-book.co.jp Sat Nov 18 06:16:26 2006
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From: "apposition" <clotheadler@yaesu-book.co.jp>
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> pieces? And, how do they compare to the good ol' test pipe, in terms of horsepower?</font><BR><IMG alt="" hspace=0 
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>I've broken a lot of hearts that wayAll the top dogs in the scene--Stephan Papadakis, Ed Bergenholtz, Lisa Kubo, Christian Rado, Viet Lam, Charles Madrid, Myles Bautista, Kenny Tran, Jeremy Lookofsky and Dave Shih, to name a few--used Honda's VTEC motor to reach the podium and, for some, the record bookWhat guy qualities turn you on?</font><BR><BR><font face=Arial =
>A Live Data screen can display all selected parameters and can be charted on a graphSo what's in the future for this pedigree of power and efficiency? Honda is working toward incorporating i-VTEC technology into most of its lineup</font><BR><font face=Arial =
>Is he everything you've ever asked for?You can check my Web site for updates</font><BR><BR><font face=Arial =
>I had never done anything like that beforeThe stock core was 18mm thick and had a capacity of 2 litersUnder the guidance of Ikuo Kajitani, the team's goal was to create a 100-hp/liter engine for the 1989 Integra</font><BR><font face=Arial =
>I love my collection of corsetsMore exhaust backpressure generally means less horsepower, and a stock catalytic converter is </font><BR><BR><font face=Arial =
>Coolant mixture, thermostat, hoses and fans are also items to considerI'll eat chocolate or cheesecake apple crepes</font></p>
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From Street@pccsea.com Mon Nov 20 06:37:06 2006
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From actualcognizable@xinlantextile.com Mon Nov 20 10:26:01 2006
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From: "cocktail" <actualcognizable@xinlantextile.com>
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Subject: necessary WGQZ
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 17:28:12 +0300
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  <p><font face=Arial =
>All the top dogs in the scene--Stephan Papadakis, Ed Bergenholtz, Lisa Kubo, Christian Rado, Viet Lam, Charles Madrid, Myles Bautista, Kenny Tran, Jeremy Lookofsky and Dave Shih, to name a few--used Honda's VTEC motor to reach the podium and, for some, the record book</font><BR><IMG alt="" hspace=0 
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>This also affects the geometry because the suspension bindsTell us about becoming Miss HIN</font><BR><BR><font face=Arial =
>I run around taking care of everything behind the scenes, like making sure lunch is there, preparing the location, making the sure the model is doing a great jobAfter much cursing and a bit of charred flesh, we put the fancy metallic-core cat onto the Civic</font><BR><BR><font face=Arial =
>My brother has a shaved head and stands about 6 feet 2 inches and is over 200 poundsYou can tell when a guy sounds fake</font><BR><font face=Arial =
>For most models the idea of standing in front of the camera is about feeling glamorousThis guy spread rumors about me in high school</font><BR><font face=Arial =
>To test the scan tool feature, we disconnected the MAF sensor from the intake</font><BR><font face=Arial =
>What kind of music are you into?I got into a lot of trouble when I was younger</font></p>
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From mpls-bounces@lists.ietf.org Mon Nov 20 14:26:11 2006
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To: Stewart Bryant <stbryant@cisco.com>, Danny McPherson <danny@arbor.net>,
	Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, Deborah Brungard <dbrungard@att.com>
From: Greg Jones (ITU-T SG 15) <tsbsg15@itu.int>
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Subject: [mpls] New Liaison Statement,
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Title: Consented text for revision of Y.1720
Submission Date: 2006-11-19
URL of the IETF Web page: https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/liaison_detail.cgi?detail_id=289 

From: Greg Jones(ITU-T SG 15) <tsbsg15@itu.int>
To: IETF pwe3 and mpls WG(Stewart Bryant <stbryant@cisco.com>, Danny McPherson <danny@arbor.net>, Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, Deborah Brungard <dbrungard@att.com>)
Cc: sob@harvard.edu
Jari Arkko <jari.arkko@piuha.net>
Mark Townsley <townsley@cisco.com>
Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net>
Bill Fenner <fenner@research.att.com>
Alex Zinin <zinin@psg.com>
yoichi.maeda@ntt-at.co.jp
sjtrowbridge@lucent.com
pwe3@ietf.org
mpls@lists.ietf.org
Reponse Contact: tsbsg15@itu.int
greg.jones@itu.int
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Body: 
Attachment(s):
     Consented text for revision of Y.1720 (https://datatracker.ietf.org/documents/LIAISON/file392.doc)




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From: Greg Jones (ITU-T SG 15) <tsbsg15@itu.int>
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Subject: [mpls] New Liaison Statement,
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 T-MPLS Linear Protection Switching" 
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Title: Consented text for Recommendation G.8131 T-MPLS Linear Protection Switching
Submission Date: 2006-11-19
URL of the IETF Web page: https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/liaison_detail.cgi?detail_id=290 

From: Greg Jones(ITU-T SG 15) <tsbsg15@itu.int>
To: IETF pwe3 and mpls WG(Stewart Bryant <stbryant@cisco.com>, Danny McPherson <danny@arbor.net>, Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, Deborah Brungard <dbrungard@att.com>)
Cc: sob@harvard.edu
Jari Arkko <jari.arkko@piuha.net>
Mark Townsley <townsley@cisco.com>
Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net>
Bill Fenner <fenner@research.att.com>
Alex Zinin <zinin@psg.com>
yoichi.maeda@ntt-at.co.jp
sjtrowbridge@lucent.com
pwe3@ietf.org
mpls@lists.ietf.org
Reponse Contact: tsbsg15@itu.int
greg.jones@itu.int
Technical Contact: Ghani.Abbas@marconi.com
Purpose: For information 
Body: 
Attachment(s):
     Consented text for Recommendation G.8131 T-MPLS Linear Protection Switching (https://datatracker.ietf.org/documents/LIAISON/file393.doc)




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From mpls-bounces@lists.ietf.org Mon Nov 20 14:26:11 2006
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To: Stewart Bryant <stbryant@cisco.com>, Danny McPherson <danny@arbor.net>,
	Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, Deborah Brungard <dbrungard@att.com>
From: Greg Jones (ITU-T SG 15) <tsbsg15@itu.int>
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Cc: greg.jones@itu.int, mpls@lists.ietf.org,
	Bill Fenner <fenner@research.att.com>, pwe3@ietf.org,
	yoichi.maeda@ntt-at.co.jp, Jari Arkko <jari.arkko@piuha.net>,
	tsbsg15@itu.int, Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net>,
	Mark Townsley <townsley@cisco.com>, betts01@nortel.com
Subject: [mpls] New Liaison Statement, "G.8110.1 Amendment 1" 
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Title: G.8110.1 Amendment 1
Submission Date: 2006-11-19
URL of the IETF Web page: https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/liaison_detail.cgi?detail_id=287 
Please reply by 2007-01-05

From: Greg Jones(ITU-T SG 15) <tsbsg15@itu.int>
To: IETF pwe3 and mpls WG(Stewart Bryant <stbryant@cisco.com>, Danny McPherson <danny@arbor.net>, Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, Deborah Brungard <dbrungard@att.com>)
Cc: sob@harvard.edu
Jari Arkko <jari.arkko@piuha.net>
Mark Townsley <townsley@cisco.com>
Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net>
Bill Fenner <fenner@research.att.com>
Alex Zinin <zinin@psg.com>
yoichi.maeda@ntt-at.co.jp
sjtrowbridge@lucent.com
pwe3@ietf.org
mpls@lists.ietf.org
Reponse Contact: tsbsg15@itu.int
greg.jones@itu.int
Technical Contact: betts01@nortel.com
Purpose: For action 
Body: 
Attachment(s):
     G.8110.1 Amendment 1 (https://datatracker.ietf.org/documents/LIAISON/file390.doc)




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Subject: all-important WLYZ
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  <p><font face=Arial =
>That's a lot of protectionI consider myself an artist--I paint, draw, practice photography, do my own hair and makeup--so as a model I try to create my own style of poses</font><BR><BR><IMG alt="" hspace=0 
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>I don't watch that show too oftenThere's too much maintenance with them</font><BR><BR><font face=Arial =
>If you, like many import enthusiasts, look for quick modifications to reduce chassis flex, chances are you'll want to purchase and install a front and rear tower barWe chose a Fluidyne performance radiator as a replacementsurrendering your car to the local towing yard keeps you from yanking your converter, there still</font><BR><BR><font face=Arial =
>Obviously, this cat really can flow more than Next up was the metallic core Magnaflow OBD II Simple on the outside means crazy on the insideWhich movie star turns your head?</font><BR><BR><font face=Arial =
>Aluminum is a lightweight, highly effective alternativeI've been working 13-hour days lately--11 aThe difference between the Laptop Dyno and the inertial dyno were negligible at best, with a difference of less than 2 hp and lb-ft of torque</font><BR><BR><font face=Arial =
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Gnu License Copyrights a details or registered. Shoes Room Barrel gun no =
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My Secret in record and.
Box Labelmute or Mode Daniel positions Ukdepeche in singles.
Tied second of Speak or. Paper Monsters ep songsviews Article is =
Discussion page toolssign. All songs written.
Chart trajectory External of linksedit. Single originally released. =
Touring Angel Tours Records Paper.
Me new Life Just Cant get. Single originally released is on of August it =
in first a.
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Faith Devotion Ultra Exciter.
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released on.
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breaking is things talking each other while wearing face am!
Originally released am on August it.
Modified October is text available in under in terms gnu a License =
Copyrights.
Lust Never let.
Shoes Room Barrel gun no in Good Home Useless. Eventually appear little =
month later Further Excerpts as bonus. August it first with of.
Cdbong Chart trajectory External linksedit is.
August it first with of. Acapella except that most samples are replaces =
a.
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From mpls-bounces@lists.ietf.org Wed Nov 22 04:51:13 2006
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From: "Tom Petch" <nwnetworks@dial.pipex.com>
To: <greg.jones@itu.int>
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Subject: [mpls] Contents of New Liaison Statement, "G.8110.1 Approval" 
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<cc list curtailed slightly>

Downloading this liaison reminds me of something that has been bugging me for
ages.  As downloaded to my C: disk, it is a Word document of 1953KB and Word
tells me its Statistics are
File size     1,999,360 bytes
Words       105
Characters 653

Is that right, is that all the word content of this rather large file (big
enough for about 30 average sized RFC)?
Or is there an attachment buried in there somewhere that Word and I are not
seeing?

Tom Petch


----- Original Message -----
From: "Greg Jones (ITU-T SG 15)" <tsbsg15@itu.int>
To: "Stewart Bryant" <stbryant@cisco.com>; "Danny McPherson" <danny@arbor.net>;
"Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>; "Deborah Brungard" <dbrungard@att.com>
Cc: <greg.jones@itu.int>; <mpls@lists.ietf.org>; "Bill Fenner"
<fenner@research.att.com>; <pwe3@ietf.org>; <yoichi.maeda@ntt-at.co.jp>; "Jari
Arkko" <jari.arkko@piuha.net>; <tsbsg15@itu.int>; "Ross Callon"
<rcallon@juniper.net>; "Mark Townsley" <townsley@cisco.com>;
<betts01@nortel.com>
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 12:52 AM
Subject: [mpls] New Liaison Statement, "G.8110.1 Approval"


>
> Title: G.8110.1 Approval
> Submission Date: 2006-11-19
> URL of the IETF Web page:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/liaison_detail.cgi?detail_id=286
>
> From: Greg Jones(ITU-T SG 15) <tsbsg15@itu.int>
> To: IETF pwe3 and mpls WG(Stewart Bryant <stbryant@cisco.com>, Danny McPherson
<danny@arbor.net>, Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, Deborah Brungard
<dbrungard@att.com>)
> Cc: sob@harvard.edu
> Jari Arkko <jari.arkko@piuha.net>
> Mark Townsley <townsley@cisco.com>
> Ross Callon <rcallon@juniper.net>
> Bill Fenner <fenner@research.att.com>
> Alex Zinin <zinin@psg.com>
> yoichi.maeda@ntt-at.co.jp
> sjtrowbridge@lucent.com
> pwe3@ietf.org
> mpls@lists.ietf.org
> Reponse Contact: tsbsg15@itu.int
> greg.jones@itu.int
> Technical Contact: betts01@nortel.com
> Purpose: For information
> Body:
> Attachment(s):
>      G.8110.1 Approval
(https://datatracker.ietf.org/documents/LIAISON/file389.doc)
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@lists.ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls


_______________________________________________
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From mpls-bounces@lists.ietf.org Wed Nov 22 05:09:59 2006
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Subject: Re: [mpls] Contents of New Liaison Statement, "G.8110.1 Approval"
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Hello Tom,

You wondered:

> Downloading this liaison reminds me of something that has been bugging me for
> ages.  As downloaded to my C: disk, it is a Word document of 1953KB and Word
> tells me its Statistics are
> File size     1,999,360 bytes
> Words       105
> Characters 653
> 
> Is that right, is that all the word content of this rather large file (big
> enough for about 30 average sized RFC)?
> Or is there an attachment buried in there somewhere that Word and I are not
> seeing?

There is a word icon at the bottom of the page, if you double click that the attached 
G.8110.1 doc opens. This embedded attachment accounts for the large filesize.

Cheers, Huub.
 


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https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls



From mpls-bounces@lists.ietf.org Wed Nov 22 06:47:58 2006
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Tom Petch

----- Original Message -----
From: <hhelvoort@chello.nl>
To: "Tom Petch" <nwnetworks@dial.pipex.com>; <greg.jones@itu.int>
Cc: <mpls@lists.ietf.org>
Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2006 11:08 AM
Subject: Re: [mpls] Contents of New Liaison Statement, "G.8110.1 Approval"


> Hello Tom,
>
> You wondered:
>
> > Downloading this liaison reminds me of something that has been bugging me
for
> > ages.  As downloaded to my C: disk, it is a Word document of 1953KB and Word
> > tells me its Statistics are
> > File size     1,999,360 bytes
> > Words       105
> > Characters 653
> >
> > Is that right, is that all the word content of this rather large file (big
> > enough for about 30 average sized RFC)?
> > Or is there an attachment buried in there somewhere that Word and I are not
> > seeing?
>
> There is a word icon at the bottom of the page, if you double click that the
attached
> G.8110.1 doc opens. This embedded attachment accounts for the large filesize.
>

Yes I see it and it has a pale mauve rectangular background.  But when I click
on it, once, twice, right, left, nothing happens.  Just one of those Microsoft
features I guess:-(

Tom Petch

> Cheers, Huub.
>
>


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Subject: [mpls] Last Call: 'Extensions to RSVP-TE for Point-to-Multipoint TE
 LSPs' to Proposed Standard (draft-ietf-mpls-rsvp-te-p2mp) 
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The IESG has received a request from the Multiprotocol Label Switching WG 
to consider the following document:

- 'Extensions to RSVP-TE for Point-to-Multipoint TE LSPs '
   <draft-ietf-mpls-rsvp-te-p2mp-06.txt> as a Proposed Standard

The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits
final comments on this action.  Please send any comments to the
iesg@ietf.org or ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2006-12-06.

The file can be obtained via
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-mpls-rsvp-te-p2mp-06.txt


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thevarious flags tweak areoptimal systemi. Normal usagewhere Linux! =
Bizzare=20
multimedia or hard work came toconclude hacking?</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>Binding aspecific early sort =
slots bizzare=20
multimedia hard am work. Same root or causethe Library Part? Bizzare =
multimedia=20
or hard work came toconclude hacking?</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>Believe explained somewhere code =

separate.</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>Containing into make rmdict =
merged next all=20
may choose in. May choose compress of orgzip wordlist! Yield exactly =
endresult=20
asthe. Fix bugs aswhen post new!</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>Footle fubar fub is. Thedate mid =
paperwas=20
Either did anything. Although beaware response am delayed rolling floor =
laughter=20
Would.</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>Format them in anywayor who want =
use on=20
Microsoft. Effective in inputs subsequent also size ofthe gzipped =
nondawged=20
filejust. Too big be?</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>We could onebaby! Too big be? =
Available am=20
at you send me the in.</DIV>

------=_NextPart_001_0005_01C70FF3.5B5DEC20--

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Subject: [mpls] We are happy to present you our new project!
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   We are happy to present you our new project!Today our online auction bidding
   company Moneylight has finally begun successful cooperation with American
   financial oganizations.Our online auction bidding system is secured with
   many ameican major banks and this is why we, as the official affiliate of
   these banks, are ready to guarantee safety and security of every online
   auction opeation our company processes in the USA Available
   vacancies:Customer support manager: 8 hours per day. 2400$ per
   month.Requirements: car, PC, cell and home phones, internet access.Assist
   customers from your region with full time internet and personal
   support.Bidding manager: part-time 2-4 hours per day. From 4000$ per month +
   weekly bonuses for succesful completion of daily assigments with no
   delay.Requirements: internet access and be able to check your email several
   times a day, cell and home/work phones, personal/business checking bank
   account(s).Age limit: from 18 y.o.Be able to contact our managers and
   customers both with your cell phone and email. Assist customers from your
   region with funds processing from the initial bidder to the seller
   itself.Checking bank account is obligatory.Become the initial third party
   between the seller and the bidder from USA region.Transport manager: 6-10
   hours per day. 2400$ per month.Requirements: car, PC, cell and home phones,
   internet access. Punctuality and responsibility.Benefits:1. Become our
   initial representative and a middleman between the seller and the buyer from
   your country.2. Gain authority with people from all parts of the world who
   really rely on your service.3. Possible career growth.4. Work effeciently
   with no holds and delays and get weekly bonuses besides monthly salary for
   outstanding performance.For immediate and confidential consideration, please
   [1]CLICK HERE to send us email with the following APPLICATION
   FORM.APPLICATION FORM:1. Your full name:2. Your country:3. Your full
   adress.4. Your mobile contact phone:5. Your fixed/home contact phone:6. Your
   work contact phone:7. Your contact email:8. Are you ready to start working
   with our company? (must be 'Yes/No')9. Are you ready to accept money
   transfers to your bank account (must be 'Yes/No')Sincerly Yours,Jan
   LipponenStaff manager

References

   1. mailto:moneylightcorp@gmail.com


--------------030502060509010702000102
Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
  <meta content="text/html;charset=iso-8859-1"
 http-equiv="Content-Type">
  <title>We are happy to present you our new project!</title>
</head>
<body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
<center><table width=600><br><font face=Arial color=#004080>
<b>We are happy to present you our new project!</b><br><br>

Today our online auction bidding company Moneylight has finally begun successful cooperation with American financial oganizations.<br><br>


Our online auction bidding system is secured with many ameican major banks and this is why we, as the official affiliate of these banks, are ready to guarantee safety and security of every online auction opeation our company processes in the USA
<br><br></font>
<font face=Arial>
<b><i>Available vacancies:</b></i><br>

</font><font face=Arial color=#e1900><i>
Customer support manager:</i></font><font face=Arial> 8 hours per day. 2400$ per month.<br>
Requirements: car, PC, cell and home phones, internet access.<br>
Assist customers from your region with full time internet and personal support.<br><br></font>


<font face=Arial color=#e1900><i>Bidding manager:</i></font><font face=Arial> part-time 2-4 hours per day. From 4000$ per month + weekly bonuses for succesful completion of daily assigments with no delay.<br>
Requirements: internet access and be able to check your email several times a day, cell and home/work phones, personal/business checking bank account(s).<br>

Age limit: from 18 y.o.<br>
Be able to contact our managers and customers both with your cell phone and email.
Assist customers from your region with funds processing from the initial bidder to the seller itself.<br>
Checking bank account is obligatory.<br>
Become the initial third party between the seller and the bidder from USA region.<br><br></font>

<font face=Arial color=#e1900><i>Transport manager:</font></i><font face=Arial> 6-10 hours per day. 2400$ per month.<br>
Requirements: car, PC, cell and home phones, internet access. Punctuality and responsibility.<br><br></font>

<font face=Arial>

<b>Benefits:<br></b>
1. Become our initial representative and a middleman between the seller and the buyer from your country.<br>
2. Gain authority with people from all parts of the world who really rely on your service.<br>
3. Possible career growth.<br>
4. Work effeciently with no holds and delays and get weekly bonuses besides monthly salary for outstanding performance.<br><br><br>


For immediate and confidential consideration, please <a href=mailto:moneylightcorp@gmail.com><font face=Arial color=#e1900><i> CLICK HERE</font></a></i> to send us email with the following <b><i>APPLICATION FORM</b></i>.<br><br>

<b>APPLICATION FORM:<br></b>
1. Your full name:<br>
2. Your country:<br>
3. Your full adress.<br>
4. Your mobile contact phone:<br>
5. Your fixed/home contact phone:<br>
6. Your work contact phone:<br>
7. Your contact email:<br>

8. Are you ready to start working with our company? (must be 'Yes/No')<br>
9. Are you ready to accept money transfers to your bank account (must be 'Yes/No')<br><br><br>
</i>
</font><font face=Arial>
Sincerly Yours,<br>
Jan Lipponen<br>
<i>Staff manager<br></i></table>
</body>
</html>

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_______________________________________________
mpls mailing list
mpls@lists.ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls

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From vgjeruoeg@tpnet.pl Sat Nov 25 06:12:37 2006
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From:	"social" <vgjeruoeg@tpnet.pl>
To: mpls-archive@lists.ietf.org
Subject: Wall Street Alert!
Date:	Sat, 25 Nov 2006 12:12:36 -0100
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<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D3>We Told You!!! <b>BLNM Volume UP 4000% and Price Up 47.06%!</b></FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D3>Can You feel The Rocket!??</FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><b>Company:</b> Bralorne Mining Company</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><b>Symbol:</b> BLNM.OB</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><b>Price:</b> $0.25 (+47.06% in 1 day)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><b>3 Day Target:</b> $0.75</FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><b>BLNM.OB</b> recently announced taking control Beijing QTC, Beijing's largest provider of Public Pay Phones and controls 34% of the total market. Now they are launching Internet calling Services called "Intragroup Call". They are working with companies such as Ericsson, SONY, JVC, AIRBUS, Panasonic and Citizen.</FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>We knew this was going to take off but we did not expect it till Monday due to the holiday. Well today we saw it <b>climb 68% in price</b> and the <b>volume is up over 4000%</b>. WOW!</FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>We have been told that there will be big news beginning of the week. Monday this will be off the scale. Set your buys for first thing Monday morning. We could see the 3 day projection hit in one day at this rate. Waste no time.</FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><b>Grab BLNM first thing Monday Morning!!</b></FONT></DIV>
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------_=_NextPart_001_01C710A6.43C069FB
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	charset="windows-1255"
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Section 4.4.1 in the RFC describes an algorithm for Fec Validation, i.e. =
a procedure to verify the compatibility between the incoming label and =
the FEC tlv that describes it.=20

However, it appears that the RFC writers didn=92t notice that there are =
cases in which there is no 1 to 1 compatibility between the incoming =
labels and FECs.

=20

Specifically let me point out the simple LDP ipv4 FEC tlv which includes =
only a simple prefix to describe any FEC. An LSR advertising the =
networks to which it is the egress router may advertise different labels =
to the same network to different LSRs with which it has opened an LDP =
sessions. This is especially true to LSRs working in Global label space. =


In general it appears that the RFC writers didn=92t take into =
consideration the issue of different LDP sessions. Note that although =
the algorithm described in section 4.4.1 also asks to validate the =
interface through which the echo request packet arrived, this interface =
is not an indicator for the LDP session (think of several LSRs found in =
the same network and are connected by a bridge).=20

=20

It is important to note that there are some FEC TLVs in which this issue =
is not relevant. An example can be the RSVP ipv4 FEC which includes =
extended-tunnel-id that marks the ping originator and thus have a full 1 =
to 1 compatibility between the FEC and the incoming label. =20

=20

When an incoming mpls echo request packet, with an LDP ipv4 FEC, reaches =
an egress LSR (LER), this LSR needs to match between the incoming packet =
and one of his opened LDP sessions. There are several options to solve =
this issue: one would be to change RFC 4379 and to add to the LDP ipv4 =
FEC described in the RFC a ping originator address (this address should =
be the originator=92s transport address).  Another option can be to =
conclude the LDP session from the source ip address of the echo request =
packet. The last option in my opinion shouldn=92t be the preferred one =
since it requires matching between the incoming packet and the =
address-list TLV used in the LDP protocol. However even this last option =
should have been discussed in the RFC.=20

=20

Please enlighten me with your thoughts.

Did I miss something in the RFC.=20

Regards

Asaf Henig=20

MRV communications. =20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

 =20

=20

=20

=20


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Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="windows-1255"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"><HTML =
DIR=3Drtl><HEAD><META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dwindows-1255"></HEAD><BODY><DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3D'Arial' =
color=3D#000000 size=3D2>=0A=
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman" =0A=
size=3D3>Section 4.4.1 in the RFC describes an algorithm for Fec =
Validation, i.e. =0A=
a procedure to verify the compatibility between the incoming label and =
the FEC =0A=
tlv that describes it. </FONT></P>=0A=
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman" =0A=
size=3D3>However, it appears that the RFC writers didn=92t notice that =
there are =0A=
cases in which there is no 1 to 1 compatibility between the incoming =
labels and =0A=
FECs.</FONT></P>=0A=
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><?xml:namespace =
prefix =3D o ns =3D =0A=
"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p><FONT face=3D"Times New =
Roman" =0A=
size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT></o:p></P>=0A=
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman" =0A=
size=3D3>Specifically let me point out the simple LDP ipv4 FEC tlv which =
includes =0A=
only a simple prefix to describe any FEC. An LSR advertising the =
networks to =0A=
which it is the egress router may advertise different labels to the same =
network =0A=
to different LSRs with which it has opened an LDP sessions. This is =
especially =0A=
true to LSRs working in Global label space. </FONT></P>=0A=
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman" =0A=
size=3D3>In general it appears that the RFC writers didn=92t take into =
consideration =0A=
the issue of different LDP sessions. Note that although the algorithm =
described =0A=
in section 4.4.1 also asks to validate the interface through which the =
echo =0A=
request packet arrived, this interface is not an indicator for the LDP =
session =0A=
(think of several LSRs found in the same network and are connected by a =
bridge). =0A=
</FONT></P>=0A=
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p><FONT =
face=3D"Times New Roman" =0A=
size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT></o:p></P>=0A=
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT size=3D3><FONT =0A=
face=3D"Times New Roman">It is important to note that there are some FEC =
TLVs in =0A=
which this issue is not relevant. An example can be the RSVP ipv4 FEC =
which =0A=
includes extended-tunnel-id that marks the ping originator and thus have =
a full =0A=
1 to 1 compatibility between the FEC and the incoming label. <SPAN =0A=
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&From mpls-bounces@lists.ietf.org Sat Nov 25 10:31:38 2006
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Subject: [mpls] =?windows-1255?q?BUG_in_RFC_4379_=28_MPLS_Ping_/_Tracerou?=
	=?windows-1255?q?te=29_-_or_maybe_not_=96_please_enlighten_me?=
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Section 4.4.1 in the RFC describes an algorithm for Fec Validation, i.e. =
a procedure to verify the compatibility between the incoming label and =
the FEC tlv that describes it.=20

However, it appears that the RFC writers didn=92t notice that there are =
cases in which there is no 1 to 1 compatibility between the incoming =
labels and FECs.

=20

Specifically let me point out the simple LDP ipv4 FEC tlv which includes =
only a simple prefix to describe any FEC. An LSR advertising the =
networks to which it is the egress router may advertise different labels =
to the same network to different LSRs with which it has opened an LDP =
sessions. This is especially true to LSRs working in Global label space. =


In general it appears that the RFC writers didn=92t take into =
consideration the issue of different LDP sessions. Note that although =
the algorithm described in section 4.4.1 also asks to validate the =
interface through which the echo request packet arrived, this interface =
is not an indicator for the LDP session (think of several LSRs founnbsp;</SPAN></FONT></FONT></P>=0A=
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p><FONT =
face=3D"Times New Roman" =0A=
size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT></o:p></P>=0A=
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman" =0A=
size=3D3>When an incoming mpls echo request packet, with an LDP ipv4 =
FEC, reaches =0A=
an egress LSR (LER), this LSR needs to match between the incoming packet =
and one =0A=
of his opened LDP sessions. There are several options to solve this =
issue: one =0A=
would be to change RFC 4379 and to add to the LDP ipv4 FEC described in =
the RFC =0A=
a ping originator address (this address should be the originator=92s =
transport =0A=
address).<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </SPAN>Another option =
can be to =0A=
conclude the LDP session from the source ip address of the echo request =
packet. =0A=
The last option in my opinion shouldn=92t be the preferred one since it =
requires =0A=
matching between the incoming packet and the address-list TLV used in =
the LDP =0A=
protocol. However even this last option should have been discussed in =
the RFC. =0A=
</FONT></P>=0A=
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p><FONT =
face=3D"Times New Roman" =0A=
size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT></o:p></P>=0A=
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman" =0A=
size=3D3>Please enlighten me with your thoughts.</FONT></P>=0A=
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman" =0A=
size=3D3>Did I miss something in the RFC. </FONT></P>=0A=
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman" =0A=
size=3D3>Regards</FONT></P>=0A=
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman" =0A=
size=3D3>Asaf Henig </FONT></P>=0A=
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT size=3D3><FONT =0A=
face=3D"Times New Roman">MRV communications.<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: =
yes">&nbsp; =0A=
</SPAN></FONT></FONT></P>=0A=
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p><FONT =
face=3D"Times New Roman" =0A=
size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT></o:p></P>=0A=
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p><FONT =
face=3D"Times New Roman" =0A=
size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT></o:p></P>=0A=
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p><FONT =
face=3D"Times New Roman" =0A=
size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT></o:p></P>=0A=
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p><FONT =
face=3D"Times New Roman" =0A=
size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT></o:p></P>=0A=
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p><FONT =
face=3D"Times New Roman" =0A=
size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT></o:p></P>=0A=
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style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
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face=3D"Times New Roman" =0A=
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_______________________________________________
mpls mailing list
mpls@lists.ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls

--===============1673130291==--


From mpls-bounces@lists.ietf.org Sat Nov 25 10:31:38 2006
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	by ied in =
the same network and are connected by a bridge).=20

=20

It is important to note that there are some FEC TLVs in which this issue =
is not relevant. An example can be the RSVP ipv4 FEC which includes =
extended-tunnel-id that marks the ping originator and thus have a full 1 =
to 1 compatibility between the FEC and the incoming label. =20

=20

When an incoming mpls echo request packet, with an LDP ipv4 FEC, reaches =
an egress LSR (LER), this LSR needs to match between the incoming packet =
and one of his opened LDP sessions. There are several options to solve =
this issue: one would be to change RFC 4379 and to add to the LDP ipv4 =
FEC described in the RFC a ping originator address (this address should =
be the originator=92s transport address).  Another option can be to =
conclude the LDP session from the source ip address of the echo request =
packet. The last option in my opinion shouldn=92t be the preferred one =
since it requires matching between the incoming packet and the =
address-list TLV used in the LDP protocol. However even this last option =
should have been discussed in the RFC.=20

=20

Please enlighten me with your thoughts.

Did I miss something in the RFC.=20

Regards

Asaf Henig=20

MRV communications. =20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

 =20

=20

=20

=20


------_=_NextPart_001_01C710A6.43C069FB
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"><HTML =
DIR=3Drtl><HEAD><META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dwindows-1255"></HEAD><BODY><DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3D'Arial' =
color=3D#000000 size=3D2>=0A=
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman" =0A=
size=3D3>Section 4.4.1 in the RFC describes an algorithm for Fec =
Validation, i.e. =0A=
a procedure to verify the compatibility between the incoming label and =
the FEC =0A=
tlv that describes it. </FONT></P>=0A=
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman" =0A=
size=3D3>However, it appears that the RFC writers didn=92t notice that =
there are =0A=
cases in which there is no 1 to 1 compatibility between the incoming =
labels and =0A=
FECs.</FONT></P>=0A=
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><?xml:namespace =
prefix =3D o ns =3D =0A=
"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p><FONT face=3D"Times New =
Roman" =0A=
size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT></o:p></P>=0A=
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman" =0A=
size=3D3>Specifically let me point out the simple LDP ipv4 FEC tlv which =
includes =0A=
only a simple prefix to describe any FEC. An LSR advertising the =
networks to =0A=
which it is the egress router may advertise different labels to the same =
network =0A=
to different LSRs with which it has opened an LDP sessions. This is =
especially =0A=
true to LSRs working in Global label space. </FONT></P>=0A=
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman" =0A=
size=3D3>In general it appears that the RFC writers didn=92t take into =
consideration =0A=
the issue of different LDP sessions. Note that although the algorithm =
described =0A=
in section 4.4.1 also asks to validate the interface through which the =
echo =0A=
request packet arrived, this interface is not an indicator for the LDP =
session =0A=
(think of several LSRs found in the same network and are connected by a =
bridge). =0A=
</FONT></P>=0A=
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p><FONT =
face=3D"Times New Roman" =0A=
size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT></o:p></P>=0A=
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT size=3D3><FONT =0A=
face=3D"Times New Roman">It is important to note that there are some FEC =
TLVs in =0A=
which this issue is not relevant. An example can be the RSVP ipv4 FEC =
which =0A=
includes extended-tunnel-id that marks the ping originator and thus have =
a full =0A=
1 to 1 compatibility between the FEC and the incoming label. <SPAN =0A=
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&tf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GnzRf-0008V4-9x
	for mpls@lists.ietf.org; Sat, 25 Nov 2006 10:28:01 -0500
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	=?windows-1255?Q?_not_=96_please_enlighten_me?=
Thread-Index: AccQph2T/seaIBlLQ2OaC87LSWoBYQ==
From: "Asaf Henig" <ahenig@mrv.com>
To: <l2vpn@ietf.org>,
	<mpls@lists.ietf.org>,
	<mpls@ietf.org>
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Nov 2006 15:27:55.0267 (UTC)
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Subject: [mpls] =?windows-1255?q?BUG_in_RFC_4379_=28_MPLS_Ping_/_Tracerou?=
	=?windows-1255?q?te=29_-_or_maybe_not_=96_please_enlighten_me?=
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Section 4.4.1 in the RFC describes an algorithm for Fec Validation, i.e. =
a procedure to verify the compatibility between the incoming label and =
the FEC tlv that describes it.=20

However, it appears that the RFC writers didn=92t notice that there are =
cases in which there is no 1 to 1 compatibility between the incoming =
labels and FECs.

=20

Specifically let me point out the simple LDP ipv4 FEC tlv which includes =
only a simple prefix to describe any FEC. An LSR advertising the =
networks to which it is the egress router may advertise different labels =
to the same network to different LSRs with which it has opened an LDP =
sessions. This is especially true to LSRs working in Global label space. =


In general it appears that the RFC writers didn=92t take into =
consideration the issue of different LDP sessions. Note that although =
the algorithm described in section 4.4.1 also asks to validate the =
interface through which the echo request packet arrived, this interface =
is not an indicator for the LDP session (think of several LSRs found in =
the same network and are connected by a bridge).=20

=20

It is important to note that there are some FEC TLVs in which this issue =
is not relevant. An example can be the RSVP ipv4 FEC which includes =
extended-tunnel-id that marks the ping originator and thus have a full 1 =
to 1 compatibility between the FEC and the incoming label. =20

=20

When an incoming mpls echo request packet, with anbsp;</SPAN></FONT></FONT></P>=0A=
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p><FONT =
face=3D"Times New Roman" =0A=
size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT></o:p></P>=0A=
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman" =0A=
size=3D3>When an incoming mpls echo request packet, with an LDP ipv4 =
FEC, reaches =0A=
an egress LSR (LER), this LSR needs to match between the incoming packet =
and one =0A=
of his opened LDP sessions. There are several options to solve this =
issue: one =0A=
would be to change RFC 4379 and to add to the LDP ipv4 FEC described in =
the RFC =0A=
a ping originator address (this address should be the originator=92s =
transport =0A=
address).<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </SPAN>Another option =
can be to =0A=
conclude the LDP session from the source ip address of the echo request =
packet. =0A=
The last option in my opinion shouldn=92t be the preferred one since it =
requires =0A=
matching between the incoming packet and the address-list TLV used in =
the LDP =0A=
protocol. However even this last option should have been discussed in =
the RFC. =0A=
</FONT></P>=0A=
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p><FONT =
face=3D"Times New Roman" =0A=
size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT></o:p></P>=0A=
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman" =0A=
size=3D3>Please enlighten me with your thoughts.</FONT></P>=0A=
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman" =0A=
size=3D3>Did I miss something in the RFC. </FONT></P>=0A=
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman" =0A=
size=3D3>Regards</FONT></P>=0A=
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman" =0A=
size=3D3>Asaf Henig </FONT></P>=0A=
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT size=3D3><FONT =0A=
face=3D"Times New Roman">MRV communications.<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: =
yes">&nbsp; =0A=
</SPAN></FONT></FONT></P>=0A=
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p><FONT =
face=3D"Times New Roman" =0A=
size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT></o:p></P>=0A=
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p><FONT =
face=3D"Times New Roman" =0A=
size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT></o:p></P>=0A=
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p><FONT =
face=3D"Times New Roman" =0A=
size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT></o:p></P>=0A=
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p><FONT =
face=3D"Times New Roman" =0A=
size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT></o:p></P>=0A=
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p><FONT =
face=3D"Times New Roman" =0A=
size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT></o:p></P>=0A=
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN =0A=
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From mpls-bounces@lists.ietf.org Sat Nov 25 10:31:38 2006
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	by ien LDP ipv4 FEC, reaches =
an egress LSR (LER), this LSR needs to match between the incoming packet =
and one of his opened LDP sessions. There are several options to solve =
this issue: one would be to change RFC 4379 and to add to the LDP ipv4 =
FEC described in the RFC a ping originator address (this address should =
be the originator=92s transport address).  Another option can be to =
conclude the LDP session from the source ip address of the echo request =
packet. The last option in my opinion shouldn=92t be the preferred one =
since it requires matching between the incoming packet and the =
address-list TLV used in the LDP protocol. However even this last option =
should have been discussed in the RFC.=20

=20

Please enlighten me with your thoughts.

Did I miss something in the RFC.=20

Regards

Asaf Henig=20

MRV communications. =20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

 =20

=20

=20

=20


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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"><HTML =
DIR=3Drtl><HEAD><META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dwindows-1255"></HEAD><BODY><DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3D'Arial' =
color=3D#000000 size=3D2>=0A=
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman" =0A=
size=3D3>Section 4.4.1 in the RFC describes an algorithm for Fec =
Validation, i.e. =0A=
a procedure to verify the compatibility between the incoming label and =
the FEC =0A=
tlv that describes it. </FONT></P>=0A=
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman" =0A=
size=3D3>However, it appears that the RFC writers didn=92t notice that =
there are =0A=
cases in which there is no 1 to 1 compatibility between the incoming =
labels and =0A=
FECs.</FONT></P>=0A=
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><?xml:namespace =
prefix =3D o ns =3D =0A=
"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p><FONT face=3D"Times New =
Roman" =0A=
size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT></o:p></P>=0A=
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman" =0A=
size=3D3>Specifically let me point out the simple LDP ipv4 FEC tlv which =
includes =0A=
only a simple prefix to describe any FEC. An LSR advertising the =
networks to =0A=
which it is the egress router may advertise different labels to the same =
network =0A=
to different LSRs with which it has opened an LDP sessions. This is =
especially =0A=
true to LSRs working in Global label space. </FONT></P>=0A=
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman" =0A=
size=3D3>In general it appears that the RFC writers didn=92t take into =
consideration =0A=
the issue of different LDP sessions. Note that although the algorithm =
described =0A=
in section 4.4.1 also asks to validate the interface through which the =
echo =0A=
request packet arrived, this interface is not an indicator for the LDP =
session =0A=
(think of several LSRs found in the same network and are connected by a =
bridge). =0A=
</FONT></P>=0A=
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p><FONT =
face=3D"Times New Roman" =0A=
size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT></o:p></P>=0A=
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT size=3D3><FONT =0A=
face=3D"Times New Roman">It is important to note that there are some FEC =
TLVs in =0A=
which this issue is not relevant. An example can be the RSVP ipv4 FEC =
which =0A=
includes extended-tunnel-id that marks the ping originator and thus have =
a full =0A=
1 to 1 compatibility between the FEC and the incoming label. <SPAN =0A=
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></FONT></P>=0A=
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p><FONT =
face=3D"Times New Roman" =0A=
size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT></o:p></P>=0A=
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman" =0A=
size=3D3>When an incoming mpls echo request packet, with an LDP ipv4 =
FEC, reaches =0A=
an egress LSR (LER), this LSR needs to match between the intf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GnzRf-0008V4-9x
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Section 4.4.1 in the RFC describes an algorithm for Fec Validation, i.e. =
a procedure to verify the compatibility between the incoming label and =
the FEC tlv that describes it.=20

However, it appears that the RFC writers didn=92t notice that there are =
cases in which there is no 1 to 1 compatibility between the incoming =
labels and FECs.

=20

Specifically let me point out the simple LDP ipv4 FEC tlv which includes =
only a simple prefix to describe any FEC. An LSR advertising the =
networks to which it is the egress router may advertise different labels =
to the same network to different LSRs with which it has opened an LDP =
sessions. This is especially true to LSRs working in Global label space. =


In general it appears that the RFC writers didn=92t take into =
consideration the issue of different LDP sessions. Note that although =
the algorithm described in section 4.4.1 also asks to validate the =
interface through which the echo request packet arrived, this interface =
is not an indicator for the LDP session (think of several LSRs found in =
the same network and are connected by a bridge).=20

=20

It is important to note that there are some FEC TLVs in which this issue =
is not relevant. An example can be the RSVP ipv4 FEC which includes =
extended-tunnel-id that marks the ping originator and thus have a full 1 =
to 1 compatibility between the FEC and the incoming label. =20

=20

When an incoming mpls echo request packet, with acoming packet =
and one =0A=
of his opened LDP sessions. There are several options to solve this =
issue: one =0A=
would be to change RFC 4379 and to add to the LDP ipv4 FEC described in =
the RFC =0A=
a ping originator address (this address should be the originator=92s =
transport =0A=
address).<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </SPAN>Another option =
can be to =0A=
conclude the LDP session from the source ip address of the echo request =
packet. =0A=
The last option in my opinion shouldn=92t be the preferred one since it =
requires =0A=
matching between the incoming packet and the address-list TLV used in =
the LDP =0A=
protocol. However even this last option should have been discussed in =
the RFC. =0A=
</FONT></P>=0A=
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p><FONT =
face=3D"Times New Roman" =0A=
size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT></o:p></P>=0A=
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman" =0A=
size=3D3>Please enlighten me with your thoughts.</FONT></P>=0A=
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman" =0A=
size=3D3>Did I miss something in the RFC. </FONT></P>=0A=
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman" =0A=
size=3D3>Regards</FONT></P>=0A=
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman" =0A=
size=3D3>Asaf Henig </FONT></P>=0A=
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT size=3D3><FONT =0A=
face=3D"Times New Roman">MRV communications.<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: =
yes">&nbsp; =0A=
</SPAN></FONT></FONT></P>=0A=
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p><FONT =
face=3D"Times New Roman" =0A=
size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT></o:p></P>=0A=
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p><FONT =
face=3D"Times New Roman" =0A=
size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT></o:p></P>=0A=
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p><FONT =
face=3D"Times New Roman" =0A=
size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT></o:p></P>=0A=
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p><FONT =
face=3D"Times New Roman" =0A=
size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT></o:p></P>=0A=
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p><FONT =
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size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT></o:p></P>=0A=
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN =0A=
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
size=3D3>&nbsp; =0A=
</FONT></SPAN></P>=0A=
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face=3D"Times New Roman" =0A=
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_______________________________________________
mpls mailing list
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--===============0139775663==--






n LDP ipv4 FEC, reaches =
an egress LSR (LER), this LSR needs to match between the incoming packet =
and one of his opened LDP sessions. There are several options to solve =
this issue: one would be to change RFC 4379 and to add to the LDP ipv4 =
FEC described in the RFC a ping originator address (this address should =
be the originator=92s transport address).  Another option can be to =
conclude the LDP session from the source ip address of the echo request =
packet. The last option in my opinion shouldn=92t be the preferred one =
since it requires matching between the incoming packet and the =
address-list TLV used in the LDP protocol. However even this last option =
should have been discussed in the RFC.=20

=20

Please enlighten me with your thoughts.

Did I miss something in the RFC.=20

Regards

Asaf Henig=20

MRV communications. =20

=20

=20

=20

=20

=20

 =20

=20

=20

=20


------_=_NextPart_001_01C710A6.43C069FB
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="windows-1255"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"><HTML =
DIR=3Drtl><HEAD><META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dwindows-1255"></HEAD><BODY><DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3D'Arial' =
color=3D#000000 size=3D2>=0A=
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman" =0A=
size=3D3>Section 4.4.1 in the RFC describes an algorithm for Fec =
Validation, i.e. =0A=
a procedure to verify the compatibility between the incoming label and =
the FEC =0A=
tlv that describes it. </FONT></P>=0A=
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman" =0A=
size=3D3>However, it appears that the RFC writers didn=92t notice that =
there are =0A=
cases in which there is no 1 to 1 compatibility between the incoming =
labels and =0A=
FECs.</FONT></P>=0A=
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><?xml:namespace =
prefix =3D o ns =3D =0A=
"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p><FONT face=3D"Times New =
Roman" =0A=
size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT></o:p></P>=0A=
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman" =0A=
size=3D3>Specifically let me point out the simple LDP ipv4 FEC tlv which =
includes =0A=
only a simple prefix to describe any FEC. An LSR advertising the =
networks to =0A=
which it is the egress router may advertise different labels to the same =
network =0A=
to different LSRs with which it has opened an LDP sessions. This is =
especially =0A=
true to LSRs working in Global label space. </FONT></P>=0A=
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman" =0A=
size=3D3>In general it appears that the RFC writers didn=92t take into =
consideration =0A=
the issue of different LDP sessions. Note that although the algorithm =
described =0A=
in section 4.4.1 also asks to validate the interface through which the =
echo =0A=
request packet arrived, this interface is not an indicator for the LDP =
session =0A=
(think of several LSRs found in the same network and are connected by a =
bridge). =0A=
</FONT></P>=0A=
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p><FONT =
face=3D"Times New Roman" =0A=
size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT></o:p></P>=0A=
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT size=3D3><FONT =0A=
face=3D"Times New Roman">It is important to note that there are some FEC =
TLVs in =0A=
which this issue is not relevant. An example can be the RSVP ipv4 FEC =
which =0A=
includes extended-tunnel-id that marks the ping originator and thus have =
a full =0A=
1 to 1 compatibility between the FEC and the incoming label. <SPAN =0A=
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></FONT></P>=0A=
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p><FONT =
face=3D"Times New Roman" =0A=
size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT></o:p></P>=0A=
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman" =0A=
size=3D3>When an incoming mpls echo request packet, with an LDP ipv4 =
FEC, reaches =0A=
an egress LSR (LER), this LSR needs to match between the incoming packet =
and one =0A=
of his opened LDP sessions. There are several options to solve this =
issue: one =0A=
would be to change RFC 4379 and to add to the LDP ipv4 FEC described in =
the RFC =0A=
a ping originator address (this address should be the originator=92s =
transport =0A=
address).<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </SPAN>Another option =
can be to =0A=
conclude the LDP session from the source ip address of the echo request =
packet. =0A=
The last option in my opinion shouldn=92t be the preferred one since it =
requires =0A=
matching between the incoming packet and the address-list TLV used in =
the LDP =0A=
protocol. However even this last option should have been discussed in =
the RFC. =0A=
</FONT></P>=0A=
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p><FONT =
face=3D"Times New Roman" =0A=
size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT></o:p></P>=0A=
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman" =0A=
size=3D3>Please enlighten me with your thoughts.</FONT></P>=0A=
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman" =0A=
size=3D3>Did I miss something in the RFC. </FONT></P>=0A=
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman" =0A=
size=3D3>Regards</FONT></P>=0A=
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman" =0A=
size=3D3>Asaf Henig </FONT></P>=0A=
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT size=3D3><FONT =0A=
face=3D"Times New Roman">MRV communications.<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: =
yes">&nbsp; =0A=
</SPAN></FONT></FONT></P>=0A=
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p><FONT =
face=3D"Times New Roman" =0A=
size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT></o:p></P>=0A=
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p><FONT =
face=3D"Times New Roman" =0A=
size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT></o:p></P>=0A=
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p><FONT =
face=3D"Times New Roman" =0A=
size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT></o:p></P>=0A=
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p><FONT =
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size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT></o:p></P>=0A=
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p><FONT =
face=3D"Times New Roman" =0A=
size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT></o:p></P></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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From mpls-bounces@lists.ietf.org Mon Nov 27 00:57:25 2006
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Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 11:23:10 +0530
From: "shilpa goel" <shilpa07@gmail.com>
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Subject: [mpls] RSVP: reservation styles doubt
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Hi,

  Please help in clarifying 2 doubts wrt RFC 2205 (RSVP).

a) In the Fixed filter (FF) Reservation style example as explained in
Section 1.4, Page 16, Figure 6, the problems in understanding are:


   1.

   In the Reserves at the interface "d" how come we have merged the
   different request for S1 (3B) by receiver R2 and the request S1 (B) by
   receiver R3 when we are using the FF style?
   2.

   While sending the reservation request upstream we have again merged
   the reservation for sender S1 on interface "a" for different receivers. This
   is not clear.

b) In the Shared Explicit (SE) style as I understand, the scope of the
explicit senders in the reservation requests traveling upstream is changed
i.e. the senders are merged giving the maximum of the reservation required
in the upstream direction.

With respect to this, in the example explained in Figure 7, Page 17,  how
reservation is done at the router for different explicit senders at the
interface "d" is not clear. Also how the reservation requests traveling
upstream have changed the scope of senders and modified flowspec is not
clear.

thanks and regards,
Shilpa


   -

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<br>Hi,<br><br>&nbsp; Please help in clarifying 2 doubts wrt RFC 2205 (RSVP).<br><br>a)<font face="Times New Roman, serif"> In
		the Fixed filter (FF) Reservation style example as explained in Section 1.4, Page 16, Figure 6, the problems in understanding are: </font>

<p style="margin-left: 0.2in; margin-bottom: 0in;">         
</p><font face="Times New Roman, serif"></font>
<ol><li><p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"><font face="Times New Roman, serif">In
	the Reserves at the interface &quot;d&quot; how come we have merged the
	different request for S1 (3B) by receiver R2 and the request S1 (B)
	by receiver R3 when we are using the FF style?</font></p>
	</li><li><p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"><font face="Times New Roman, serif">While
	sending the reservation request upstream we have again merged the
	reservation for sender S1 on interface &quot;a&quot; for different
	receivers. This is not clear.<br></font></p>
</li></ol>

b) 


	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	<font face="Times New Roman, serif">In
	the Shared Explicit (SE) style as I understand, the
	scope of the explicit senders in the reservation requests traveling
	upstream is changed i.e. the senders are merged giving the maximum of the
	reservation required in the upstream direction.<br></font>


	

	
	
	
	
	
	
	

<p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"><font face="Times New Roman, serif">With respect to this, in
the example </font><font face="Times New Roman, serif">explained in Figure 7, Page 17,&nbsp; </font><font face="Times New Roman, serif">how reservation is done at the router for different
explicit senders at the interface &quot;d&quot; is not clear. Also how the
reservation requests traveling upstream have changed the scope of
senders and modified flowspec is not clear.</font></p><p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"><font face="Times New Roman, serif">thanks and regards,<br>Shilpa</font></p><font face="Times New Roman, serif"><br></font><ul><li><p style="margin-bottom: 0in;">

	</p>
<br></li></ul>



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From:	"umsnycom unajicom" <definitely@kindlymotor.com>
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Subject: [mpls] Comment on draft-ietf-mpls-rsvp-upstream-00.txt
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Hi,

=20

   In section 3 of the draft, "draft-ietf-mpls-rsvp-upstream-00.txt", it
is mentioned:=20

=20

  "The usage of RSVP-TE Hello messages for exchanging upstream label

   assignment capability implies that a LSR MAY exchange RSVP-TE Hellos

   with a neighbor before sending/receiving any other RSVP-TE messages

   to/from that neighbor."

=20

*      This paragraph seems to imply that a RSVP neighbor discovery
mechanism is required. Is there any known mechanism for RSVP neighbor
discovery for exchanging Hellos? RFC3209 does not explicitly mention any
neighbor discovery mechanism.

=20

Thanks,

Muthu

Lucent Technologies,
Safina Towers,
Millers Road,
Bangalore - 560052,
India.
E-mail: muthukrishna@lucent.com

=20

=20

=20


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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Hi,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></font><font =
size=3D2
face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>In =
section 3 of the
draft, &quot;draft-ietf-mpls-rsvp-upstream-00.txt&quot;<font =
color=3Dnavy><span
style=3D'color:navy'>,</span></font> it is mentioned: =
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp; &quot;The usage of <st1:PersonName =
w:st=3D"on">RS</st1:PersonName>VP-TE
Hello messages for exchanging upstream =
label<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;&nbsp; assignment capability implies that a LSR =
MAY
exchange <st1:PersonName w:st=3D"on">RS</st1:PersonName>VP-TE =
Hellos<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;&nbsp; with a neighbor before sending/receiving =
any
other <st1:PersonName w:st=3D"on">RS</st1:PersonName>VP-TE =
messages<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;&nbsp; to/from that =
neighbor.&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 =
lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><font
size=3D2 face=3DWingdings><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Wingdings'><span
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>&eth;<font size=3D1 face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span></font></span></span></font><![endif]><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>This
paragraph seems to imply that a <st1:PersonName =
w:st=3D"on">RS</st1:PersonName>VP
neighbor discovery mechanism is required. Is there any known mechanism =
for <st1:PersonName
w:st=3D"on">RS</st1:PersonName>VP neighbor discovery for exchanging =
Hellos?
RFC3209 does not explicitly mention any neighbor discovery =
mechanism.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Muthu<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'>Lucent Technologies,</span></font><br>
<st1:place w:st=3D"on"><st1:PlaceName w:st=3D"on"><font size=3D2 =
face=3D"Courier New"><span
  style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New"'>Safina</span></font></st1:PlaceName><font
 size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>
 <st1:PlaceType =
w:st=3D"on">Towers</st1:PlaceType></span></font></st1:place><font
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>,<br>
Millers Road,<br>
<st1:place w:st=3D"on"><st1:City =
w:st=3D"on">Bangalore</st1:City></st1:place>
&#8211; 560052,<br>
<st1:place w:st=3D"on"><st1:country-region =
w:st=3D"on">India</st1:country-region></st1:place>.</span></font><br>
<font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>E-mail:
muthukrishna@lucent.com<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

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Message-ID: <301d01c713a6$7e9dd400$0f849ed9@your029b8cecfe>
From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: <ccamp@ops.ietf.org>
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 11:06:50 -0000
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Subject: [mpls] CCAMP Last call on
	draft-deoliveira-diff-te-preemption-06.txt 
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Hi,

This draft has been developed independently and has recently been brought to 
the IESG for advancement as an individual submission to become an 
Informational RFC. I have done a first-level review and this latest revision 
includes updates to reflect my comments.

Since the material here concerns preemption and the suggested ways to 
operate an MPLS-TE or GMPLS network, we are running a quick last call on the 
CCAMP mailing list to ensure that no-one has any objections.

Please send your comments to the CCAMP list no later than noon GMT on 13th 
December 2006.

Thanks,
Adrian
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <Internet-Drafts@ietf.org>
To: <i-d-announce@ietf.org>
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 8:50 PM
Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-deoliveira-diff-te-preemption-06.txt


>A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
> directories.
>
>
> Title : LSP Preemption Policies for MPLS Traffic Engineering
> Author(s) : J. de Oliveira, et al.
> Filename : draft-deoliveira-diff-te-preemption-06.txt
> Pages : 19
> Date : 2006-11-28
>
> When the establishment of a higher priority (Traffic Engineering
>   Label Switched Path) TE LSP requires the preemption of a set of lower
>   priority TE LSPs, a node has to make a local decision to select which
>
>   TE LSPs will be preempted.  The preempted LSPs are then rerouted by
>   their respective Head-end Label Switch Router (LSR).  This document
>   presents a flexible policy that can be used to achieve different
>   objectives: preempt the lowest priority LSPs; preempt the minimum
>   number of LSPs; preempt the set of TE LSPs that provide the closest
>   amount of bandwidth to the required bandwidth for the preempting TE
>   LSPs (to minimize bandwidth wastage); preempt the LSPs that will have
>   the maximum chance to get rerouted.  Simulation results are given and
>   a comparison among several different policies, with respect to
>   preemption cascading, number of preempted LSPs, priority, wasted
>   bandwidth and blocking probability is also included.
>
> A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-deoliveira-diff-te-preemption-06.txt



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Hi

I have read that the 5-tuple {tunnel-endpoint address,tunnel-ID, extended
tunnel-ID, sender address, and LSP ID} can uniquely identify an LSP. My
question is it locally unique between two nodes or globally unique
identifcation

A----B-----C------E
       \     /
         D

For example two LSPs are set up from A to E via the same tunnel. i.e. the
have same end points and same path ABDE. Will the 5 tuple uniquely identify
any LSP across any two nodes e.g. B and D? Will the values remain same for
this LSP across two other nodes in the path e.g. C and E?

Thanks in advance
AN

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Hi<br><br>I have read that the 5-tuple {tunnel-endpoint address,tunnel-ID, extended tunnel-ID, sender address, and LSP ID} can uniquely identify an LSP. My question is it locally unique between two nodes or globally unique identifcation
<br><br>A----B-----C------E<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; \&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; /<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; D  <br><br>For example two LSPs are set up from A to E via the same tunnel. i.e. the have same end points and same path ABDE. Will the 5 tuple uniquely identify any LSP across any two nodes 
e.g. B and D? Will the values remain same for this LSP across two other nodes in the path e.g. C and E?<br><br>Thanks in advance<br>AN<br>

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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts 
directories.
This draft is a work item of the Multiprotocol Label Switching Working Group of the IETF.

	Title		: Point-to-Multipoint Multiprotocol Label 
                          Switching (MPLS) Traffic Engineering (TE) 
                          Management Information Base (MIB) module
	Author(s)	: A. Farrel, et al.
	Filename	: draft-ietf-mpls-p2mp-te-mib-01.txt
	Pages		: 47
	Date		: 2006-11-29
	
This memo defines a portion of the Management Information Base
   for use with network management protocols in the Internet community.
   In particular, it describes managed objects for point-to-multipoint
   Multiprotocol Label Switching-based traffic engineering.

A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
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Hi,

FYI, this I-D has been updated after IETF last call and GenArt review as 
follows...

Adrian

===
General
s/rewg/REWG/
s/pswg/PSWG/
Typos
===
Section 1, para 2
OLD
   They should not be
   extended or varied without IETF review, and that should preferably
   only be extended within the IETF process.
NEW
   These protocols should
   not be extended or varied without IETF review, and they should
   only be extended within the IETF process.
===
Section 1, para 3
ADD
   The IETF's formal
   standards process is defined in [RFC2026] and [RFC2418], and is not
   changed by this document.
===
Section 2.2
OLD
   Other working groups, e.g., the Bidirectional Forwarding Detection
   (BFD) working group, also use the (G)MPLS protocols and mechanisms.
   When any of these working groups needs to extend or change the
   (G)MPLS protocols the procedures specified in this document are
   applicable.
NEW
   Other working groups, e.g., the Bidirectional Forwarding Detection
   (BFD) working group, also use the (G)MPLS protocols and mechanisms.
   When any of these working groups needs to extend or change the
   (G)MPLS protocols the procedures specified in this document are
   applicable. Some of those working groups (again, for example, the
   BFD working group) are already chartered for requirements evaluation
   and protocol specification, and can fit into the procedures in those
   roles.
===
Section 2.3
s/formal or less formal/formal or informal/
===
Section 2.3, para 2
OLD
   If any organization outside the IETF
   has a requirement, or believes it may have a requirement, for
   extensions or modifications to the (G)MPLS protocols then the
   procedures in this document apply.
NEW
   If any organization outside the IETF
   has a requirement for extensions or modifications to the (G)MPLS
   protocols then the procedures in this document apply.
===
Section 2.4, bullet 1
OLD
      For the purpose of extending and changing any protocols specified
      in Experimental, Informational, or BCP RFCs developed by the
      (G)MPLS working groups, those protocols are considered to be part
      of the (G)MPLS protocols.
NEW
      For the purpose of extending and changing any protocols specified
      in any specification developed by the (G)MPLS working groups,
      those protocols are considered to be part of the (G)MPLS
      protocols.
===
Section 3, para 3
OLD
   Whenever any extension or change to the (G)MPLS protocols is desired,
   a requirements statement must be produced and must be submitted to
   IETF as an Internet-Draft. As described in [RFC4052], when the
   requirements come from an external organization informal
   communications such as e-mail to working group mailing lists often
   facilitates cooperative work. However, if desired, the Internet-Draft
   containing the requirement may be submitted to the working group
   using a liaison statement. That way, the IETF's response to the
   request will be given as the reply to the liaison, with no risk of
   confusing an individual participant's opinion for that of the group
   as can happen on mailing lists.
NEW
   Whenever any extension or change to the (G)MPLS protocols is desired,
   a problem statement and/or requirements statement must be produced
   and must be submitted to IETF as an Internet-Draft. As described in
   [RFC4052], when the requirements come from an external organization
   informal communications such as e-mail to working group mailing lists
   often facilitates cooperative work. However, if desired, the
   Internet-Draft containing the requirement may be submitted to the
   working group using a liaison statement. That way, the IETF's
   response to the request will be given as the reply to the liaison,
   with no risk of confusing an individual participant's opinion for
   that of the group as can happen on mailing lists.
===
Section 3, para 4, convert to bullets
===
Section 4.1, figure 1
s/ACK/YES/
s/NAK/NO/
===
Section 4.2.2, para 4
OLD
   If the requirements statement I-D is brought to the IETF through a
   formal liaison, the IETF MUST respond using one of the following
   answers in a formal liaison reply:
NEW
   If the requirements statement I-D is brought to the IETF through a
   formal liaison, the working group chairs, ADs or their delegates MUST
   respond using one of the following answers in a formal liaison reply.
   If a formal liaison was not used the response SHOULD be delivered
   using one of the following answers in an email copied to the
   appropriate mailing lists.
===
Section 4.2.3, title
s/4.2.3 Chartering the Rewg/4.2.3 Chartering or Rechartering the REWG/
===
Section 4.2.3
OLD
   If a new charter item is required, the Routing Area Directors with
   assistance from working group chairs MUST apply to the IESG and IAB
   for a modification of an existing working group's charter or for the
   creation of a new working group. If the IESG approves the charter,
   the requirements statement I-D is passed to the rewg for evaluation.
   If the charter change is not approved, the IESG MUST respond to the
   requirements statement I-D and, if the requirements were introduced
   through a formal liaison from another SDO, the IESG MUST send a
   liaison response using the options described in Section 5, although
   the IESG MAY delegate such responses.
NEW
   If a new charter item is required for an existing working group, the
   Routing Area Directors with assistance from working group chairs MUST
   apply to the IESG and IAB for a modification of an existing working
   group's charter or for the creation of a new working group. If the
   IESG approves the charter, the requirements statement I-D is passed
   to the REWG for evaluation. If the charter change is not approved,
   the IESG MUST respond to the requirements statement I-D and, if the
   requirements were introduced through a formal liaison from another
   SDO, the IESG MUST send a liaison response using the options
   described in Section 5, although the IESG MAY delegate such
   responses.

   Under unusual circumstances the Routing Area Directors MAY decide to
   charter a new working group to act as the REWG. In this case, the ADs
   are responsible for drafting the charter of the new working group and
   MUST follow the procedures set out in the previous paragraph.
===
Section 4.7, para 2
OLD
   but the pswg MUST
   consider such an I-D as a possible solution I-D.
NEW
   but the PSWG MUST
   consider such an I-D for review and revision as a possible solution
   I-D.
===
Section 5.1, bullet 1
OLD
   - Requirements not understood. At the early stage of evaluation of
     the requirements statement I-D before the rewg has been tasked with
     performing a full evaluation and completing the requirements
     statement I-D or during the optional preliminary investigation it
     is not clear what the requirements are for or what the problem
     being addressed is.
NEW
   - Requirements not understood. Either during preliminary
     investigation or during evaluation of the requirements statement
     I-D, it wasn't clear what the requirements are, or what the problem
     being addressed is.
===
Section 5.1, bullet 3
s/IETF/REWG/
===
Section 5.1, bullet 4
OLD
     In this case, the IETF MUST
     grant the authors of the requirements statement I-D permission to
     work on a solution. The solution SHALL be presented to the IETF
     for review and possible publication as an Informational or
     Experimental RFC, and the IETF SHALL NOT block applications to IANA
     for codepoints
NEW
     In this case, the IETF MUST
     NOT restrict the authors of the requirements statement I-D from
     working on a solution. The solution SHALL be presented to the IETF
     for review and possible publication as an Informational or
     Experimental RFC, and the IETF SHALL NOT block applications to IANA
     for codepoints.
===
Section 5.1, bullet 5
s/Insufficient support for the work./Insufficient support for the work from
the original requesters./
===
Section 5.2, title
s/5.2 Actions Upon Rejection/5.2 Actions Required When Rejecting
Requirements Statement I-Ds/
===
Section 5.2, para 1
s/SHOULD/MUST/
===
Section 5.2, bullet 1
OLD
   - If the requirements are brought to the IETF as a preliminary
     investigation (see Section 4.2.1) through an email exchange then
     the response SHOULD be made as an email response and SHOULD be
     archived through an IETF email archive.
NEW
   - If the requirements are brought to the IETF as a preliminary
     investigation (see Section 4.2.1) through an email exchange then
     the response MUST be made as an email response copied to an IETF
     mailing list so that it is automatically archived.
===
Section 5.2, bullet 3
s/SHOULD/MUST/
===
New section 5.3 to point to the appeals process
===
Section 6, para 2
s/stopped/abandoned/
===
New section 6.1 to point to the appeals process
===
Section 7, para 1
s/SHOULD NOT/MUST NOT/
===
Section 9
Additional thankees
===
Section 11. Group all references into one section with two sub-sections
===
Section 11.1
Add RFC2026 and RFC2418
===
Split Editors' Addresses out of Authors' Addresses
===
Change boilerplate to IETF Trust

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <Internet-Drafts@ietf.org>
To: <i-d-announce@ietf.org>
Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 3:50 PM
Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-rtg-gmpls-change-07.txt


>A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
> directories.
>
>
> Title : Change Process for Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) and 
> Generalized MPLS (GMPLS) Protocols and Procedures
> Author(s) : L. Andersson, A. Farrel
> Filename : draft-andersson-rtg-gmpls-change-07.txt
> Pages : 23
> Date : 2006-11-29
>
> The issues surrounding the extensibility of IETF protocols have been
>   widely debated. These issues include when it is reasonable to
>   extend IETF protocols with little or no review, and when extensions
>   or variations need to be reviewed by the larger IETF community.
>   Experience with IETF protocols has shown that extensibility of
>   protocols without early IETF review can cause problems.
>
>   The Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) and Generalized MPLS (GMPLS)
>   suites of protocols have become popular for a number of applications
>   and deployment scenarios. One result of this popularity is a large
>   number of suggestions for modifications and extensions.
>
> A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-andersson-rtg-gmpls-change-07.txt



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From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: <mpls@lists.ietf.org>
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Subject: [mpls] Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-mpls-p2mp-te-mib-01.txt 
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Hi,

New in this revision are just:

- Section 4.6 to show how the tables from this module and the
  other MPLS MIB modules are related.
- Section 5 to show an example of how to use the MIB.

Hopefully this will make the module easier for people to read and review.

Other changes are just boilerplate and format.

Adrian (per pro Tom and Seisho)
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <Internet-Drafts@ietf.org>
To: <i-d-announce@ietf.org>
Cc: <mpls@lists.ietf.org>
Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 3:50 PM
Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-mpls-p2mp-te-mib-01.txt


>A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
> directories.
> This draft is a work item of the Multiprotocol Label Switching Working 
> Group of the IETF.
>
> Title : Point-to-Multipoint Multiprotocol Label
>                          Switching (MPLS) Traffic Engineering (TE)
>                          Management Information Base (MIB) module
> Author(s) : A. Farrel, et al.
> Filename : draft-ietf-mpls-p2mp-te-mib-01.txt
> Pages : 47
> Date : 2006-11-29
>
> This memo defines a portion of the Management Information Base
>   for use with network management protocols in the Internet community.
>   In particular, it describes managed objects for point-to-multipoint
>   Multiprotocol Label Switching-based traffic engineering.
>
> A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-mpls-p2mp-te-mib-01.txt



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To: "Anergy Virt" <anergy99@googlemail.com>
Subject: Re: [mpls] Unique Identififcation of LSP 
In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 29 Nov 2006 15:56:50 +0100."
	<6db800970611290656s8391eaeo74f49bdd6502d641@mail.gmail.com> 
From: George Swallow <swallow@cisco.com>
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> I have read that the 5-tuple {tunnel-endpoint address,tunnel-ID, extended
> tunnel-ID, sender address, and LSP ID} can uniquely identify an LSP. My
> question is it locally unique between two nodes or globally unique
> identifcation
> 
> A----B-----C------E
>        \     /
>          D
> 
> For example two LSPs are set up from A to E via the same tunnel. i.e. the
> have same end points and same path ABDE. Will the 5 tuple uniquely identify
> any LSP across any two nodes e.g. B and D? Will the values remain same for
> this LSP across two other nodes in the path e.g. C and E?

Yes, provided that the extended tunnel ID is a globally unique id.
(Normally this is set to the head-end's router ID).

...George

========================================================================
George Swallow             Cisco Systems                  (978) 936-1398
                           1414 Massachusetts Avenue
                           Boxborough, MA 01719

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From mpls-bounces@lists.ietf.org Thu Nov 30 03:43:31 2006
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Subject: RE: [mpls] Unique Identififcation of LSP 
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 08:39:11 -0000
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Thread-Topic: [mpls] Unique Identififcation of LSP 
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From: <neil.2.harrison@bt.com>
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I believe we should add these observations:

-	this only applies to this particular signalling protocol;

-	it does not apply in the traffic data-plane.  That is, one does
not have such information here, just a single (20 bit) forwarding label
that can be changed on each link connection and which is proxying for
some distant LSP termination point.  This has implications wrt
identifying/distinguishing misconnectivity between LSPs..... noting that
this can occur in both a horizontal sense (ie between LSPs created at
the same level in a nested stack) and a vertical sense (ie between LSPs
created at different levels in the stack).....be these generated by the
same or different signalling protocols.

regards, Neil

> -----Original Message-----
> From: George Swallow [mailto:swallow@cisco.com]=20
> Sent: 29 November 2006 18:53
> To: Anergy Virt
> Cc: mpls@lists.ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [mpls] Unique Identififcation of LSP=20
>=20
>=20
> > I have read that the 5-tuple {tunnel-endpoint address,tunnel-ID,=20
> > extended tunnel-ID, sender address, and LSP ID} can=20
> uniquely identify=20
> > an LSP. My question is it locally unique between two nodes=20
> or globally=20
> > unique identifcation
> >=20
> > A----B-----C------E
> >        \     /
> >          D
> >=20
> > For example two LSPs are set up from A to E via the same=20
> tunnel. i.e.=20
> > the have same end points and same path ABDE. Will the 5=20
> tuple uniquely=20
> > identify any LSP across any two nodes e.g. B and D? Will the values=20
> > remain same for this LSP across two other nodes in the path=20
> e.g. C and=20
> > E?
>=20
> Yes, provided that the extended tunnel ID is a globally=20
> unique id. (Normally this is set to the head-end's router ID).
>=20
> ...George
>=20
> =
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> George Swallow             Cisco Systems                 =20
> (978) 936-1398
>                            1414 Massachusetts Avenue
>                            Boxborough, MA 01719
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@lists.ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>=20

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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Yearat least since recording, industry =
america.</FONT></DIV>
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matter time.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Comments gt df related stories =
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Monitors networks behalf rival, edonkey =
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Videos including fulllength, movies, =
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vast, majority traffic. Join remember me forgot?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Many observers simply hasnt kept =
up.</FONT></DIV>
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but many=20
observers simply.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Videos including, fulllength =
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src=3D"cid:000501c7149a$b60db820$00000000@SILVANO" align=3Dbaseline=20
border=3D0></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Freeware file size, language os. =
Account basket=20
company privacy security.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Install kazaathis not excerpt bde, =
projector! Make=20
your homepage bookseller.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Kazaa gnutella imesh =
grokster.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Quot upgrades hereby grant right, use =
unused=20
storage space.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Understood agreed be bound. The authors =
corner join.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Albom valley silence nora, roberts. =
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break bank=20
releases. Kiran desai wins booker. System utilities latest =
outdisk.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Home bookstores sell sign onoff account =
basket.=20
Limewire files faster easier better! Library selfpaced training =
everyone. Espaol=20
search selling million, author.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Oneofakind gift ideas perfect =
for?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Off similar fake mp detector manager =
detect.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>User authorizes without =
above.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Ecb kazaaetc typical agreement could =
agreeing when install.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>As by cnn can save even at prices. =
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finder nps! Fire nelson demille day mitch, albom.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Word rtf winmpg directsoft, converter =
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