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From: sutanu kumar <sutanu_kumar@hotmail.com>
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Subject: [mpls] regarding rfc 3036: LDP Label Withdraw Message Procedures
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Hi=2C

RFC says "The FEC TLV specifies the FEC for which labels are to be withdraw=
n.=0A=
   If no Label TLV follows the FEC=2C all labels associated with the FEC=0A=
   are to be withdrawn"

What does it mean by "all labels associated with the FEC"? Is it possible t=
o map more than one label with a FEC?

Thanks=2C
Sutanu


_________________________________________________________________
Searching for the best deals on travel? Visit MSN Travel.
http://msn.coxandkings.co.in/cnk/cnk.do=

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</head>
<body class=3D'hmmessage'><div style=3D"text-align: left=3B">Hi=2C<br><br>R=
FC says "The FEC TLV specifies the FEC for which labels are to be withdrawn=
.=0A=
   If no Label TLV follows the FEC=2C all labels associated with the FEC=0A=
   are to be withdrawn"<br><br>What does it mean by "all labels associated =
with the FEC"? Is it possible to map more than one label with a FEC?<br><br=
>Thanks=2C<br>Sutanu<br><br></div><br /><hr />Do you have a You@live.in id =
yet? Get it now. Sign up for a Windows Live ID <a href=3D'http://ss1.richme=
dia.in/recurl.asp?pid=3D531' target=3D'_new'>Try it!</a></body>
</html>=

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Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 01:32:01 +0530
From: "venkatesan mahalingam" <venkatflex@gmail.com>
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Subject: [mpls] VPLS terms clarification
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L2 VPN id, VPLS instance and VSI how these three terms associated/used in
VPLS?

Can we have more than one VPLS instances in a VSI at AC side?

Where L2 VPN id will be useful?

How this VSI mapped in VPLS mib?

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<div dir="ltr"><br>L2 VPN id, VPLS instance and VSI how these three terms associated/used in VPLS?<br><br>Can we have more than one VPLS instances in a VSI at AC side?<br><br>Where L2 VPN id will be useful?<br><br>How this VSI mapped in VPLS mib?<br>
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From mpls-bounces@ietf.org  Sun Aug  3 15:11:56 2008
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From: Shane Amante <shane@castlepoint.net>
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Subject: Re: [mpls] VPLS terms clarification
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Hi Venkatesan,

First, for VPLS-specific questions such as these, it's better that you  
ask them over on the l2vpn@ietf.org mailing list.  To subscribe to  
this list, please go here: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ 
l2vpn>.

Second, most of the questions you asked below are probably already  
addressed within the following docs:
- RFC 4664, "Framework for Layer 2 Virtual Private Networks"; and,
- draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-mib-02, "VPLS MIB".

Thanks,

-shane


On Aug 3, 2008, at 2:02 PM, venkatesan mahalingam wrote:
> L2 VPN id, VPLS instance and VSI how these three terms associated/ 
> used in VPLS?
>
> Can we have more than one VPLS instances in a VSI at AC side?
>
> Where L2 VPN id will be useful?
>
> How this VSI mapped in VPLS mib?
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls

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From mpls-bounces@ietf.org  Tue Aug  5 20:52:03 2008
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Subject: [mpls]  draft-boutros-mpls-ldp-gs-adj-00.txt
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Hi,

The following ID was presented at IETF 72 in Dublin, Please provide 
input on the ID.
We would like to make the ID  a work group doc.

http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-boutros-mpls-ldp-gs-adj-00.txt

Thanks,

Sami

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Thread-Topic: Small bug fix in the P2MP MIB
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From: "Nic Neate" <Nic.Neate@dataconnection.com>
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Subject: [mpls] Small bug fix in the P2MP MIB
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Hi all,

I'd like to fix what I believe to be a bug in the P2MP MIB.  While it
has passed WG last call, I don't think it has yet completed AD review,
so that should provide a window in which to make this change if people
agree with it.

The mplsTeP2mpTunnelTable contains three fields for reporting the
upstream sub-group IDs received on Path messages for a P2MP LSP.
-  mplsTeP2mpTunnelSubGroupOriginType
-  mplsTeP2mpTunnelSubGroupOrigin
-  mplsTeP2mpTunnelSubGroupID

However, an LSR may receive multiple Path messages for a single P2MP
LSP, each for a different sub-group.  See RFC 4875 section 4.3.  I would
like to be able to report all of the upstream sub-groups for a P2MP LSP
in the MIB, not just one of them.

A single S2L sub-LSP will always be in a single Path message and
sub-group (except during transient re-optimization conditions).  I think
the upstream sub-group fields should therefore be moved to the
mplsTeP2mpTunnelDestTable, so that the upstream sub-group for each S2L
sub-LSP can be reported.

The mplsTeP2mpTunnelDestTable already contains fields for the downstream
sub-group IDs, so the moved fields would also have to be renamed as
follows.
-  mplsTeP2mpTunnelDestUpSubGroupOriginType
-  mplsTeP2mpTunnelDestUpSubGroupOrigin
-  mplsTeP2mpTunnelDestUpSubGroupID

Does anyone disagree with that change?

Thanks,

Nic
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All,

   volunteers for NomCom is still needed.

/Loa

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Please ask your WG...
Date: Sun,  3 Aug 2008 07:43:22 -0700 (PDT)
From: NomCom Chair <nomcom-chair@ietf.org>
To: Working Group Chairs <wgchairs@ietf.org>

To volunteer for the nomcom.
The nomcom process is (in my opinion) better served by a large pool of
volunteers drawn from a wide spectrum of IETF attendees.
As such, please ask on your individual mailing lists for folks to
volunteer.

Obviously, the exact method for doing so is up to you.
The most recent call for volunteers can be reference here:
     https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/show_nomcom_message.cgi?id=1617
Whether you copy that message, or reference is probably up to you and the
habits of your working group mailing list.
If you want to reference or copy the status message I sent out, that can
be found at:
     https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/show_nomcom_message.cgi?id=1618

Thank you,
Joel M. Halpern
Nomcom Chair
jmh@joelahlpern.com
nomcom-chair@ietf.org


-- 
Loa Andersson

Principal Networking Architect
Acreo AB                           phone:  +46 8 632 77 14
Isafjordsgatan 22                  mobile: +46 739 81 21 64
Kista, Sweden                      email:  loa.andersson@acreo.se
                                            loa@pi.nu
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Multiprotocol Label Switching Working Group of the IETF.


	Title           : PathErr Message Triggered MPLS and GMPLS LSP Reroute
	Author(s)       : L. Berger, et al.
	Filename        : draft-ietf-mpls-gmpls-lsp-reroute-00.txt
	Pages           : 9
	Date            : 2008-08-05

This document describes how Resource ReserVation Protocol (RSVP)
PathErr Messages may be used to trigger rerouting of Multi-Protocol
Label Switching (MPLS) and Generalized MPLS (GMPLS) Traffic
Engineering (TE) Label Switched Paths (LSPs) without first removing
LSP state or resources.  Such LSP rerouting may be desirable in a
number of cases including, for example, soft-preemption and graceful
shutdown.  This document describes the usage of existing Standards
Track mechanisms and defines no new formats or mechanisms.  It relies
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All,


as you have seen we have a new wg draft. I made the decision to accept
it without polling the list since it is part of the solution for
Soft Pre-emption we agreed on in Dublin.

Please read and comment on the draft. We don't plan progress any of
the drafts that relates to the Soft Pre-emption unless all three is
ready to go.

/Loa


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [mpls] I-D Action:draft-ietf-mpls-gmpls-lsp-reroute-00.txt
Date: Fri,  8 Aug 2008 03:45:02 -0700 (PDT)
From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org
To: i-d-announce@ietf.org
CC: mpls@lists.ietf.org

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts 
directories.
This draft is a work item of the Multiprotocol Label Switching Working 
Group of the IETF.


	Title           : PathErr Message Triggered MPLS and GMPLS LSP Reroute
	Author(s)       : L. Berger, et al.
	Filename        : draft-ietf-mpls-gmpls-lsp-reroute-00.txt
	Pages           : 9
	Date            : 2008-08-05

This document describes how Resource ReserVation Protocol (RSVP)
PathErr Messages may be used to trigger rerouting of Multi-Protocol
Label Switching (MPLS) and Generalized MPLS (GMPLS) Traffic
Engineering (TE) Label Switched Paths (LSPs) without first removing
LSP state or resources.  Such LSP rerouting may be desirable in a
number of cases including, for example, soft-preemption and graceful
shutdown.  This document describes the usage of existing Standards
Track mechanisms and defines no new formats or mechanisms.  It relies
on mechanisms already defined as part of RSVP-TE and simply describes
a sequence of actions to be executed.

A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-mpls-gmpls-lsp-reroute-00.txt

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-- 
Loa Andersson

Principal Networking Architect
Acreo AB                           phone:  +46 8 632 77 14
Isafjordsgatan 22                  mobile: +46 739 81 21 64
Kista, Sweden                      email:  loa.andersson@acreo.se
                                            loa@pi.nu

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I will be out of the office starting  08/08/2008 and will not return until
18/08/2008.

For local site enquiries please contact Dave Brewer (CSC) 0141 957 2589.

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Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 17:58:12 +0900
From: Kenichi AOYAGI <aoyagi.kenichi@lab.ntt.co.jp>
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To: "Harish Sitaraman" <hsitaraman@juniper.net>, mpls@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [mpls] RFC 4561 clarification
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Hi all,

I just started studying MPLS FRR recently and have read RFC 3209 & RFC 4561.
I have some questions regarding the interpretation of these standards.

As Harish mentioned, it seems the order of <I, L> in the RRO
should be kept as specified by RFC 3209. I think this order should also be 
kept even when RFC 4561 is also supported (e.g., when the node-id
sub-object is pushed onto RRO).

Therefore, as Harish mentioned, it is reasonable that the formats: <N, L,
I>, <I, L, N>, <N, L> and <I, N, L> are not allowed.

On the other hand, only the formats like <I, L>, <N, I, L>, <N, L, I, L>
and <I, L, N, L> are allowed when RFC 3209 and RFC 4561 are supported.

However, <N, L> is indicated as an example of implementation in RFC 4561.

 Section 3:

   An implementation may decide to either:

   1) Add the node-id sub-object in the RRO carried in an RSVP Resv
      message and, when required, also add another IPv4/IPv6 sub-object
      to record interface address.

In my understanding, RFC 3209 has not been obsoleted or updated by RFC4561 
although it has been updated some other RFCs as quoted below.

-------- quote from RFC index -----------

3209 RSVP-TE: Extensions to RSVP for LSP Tunnels. D. Awduche, L.
     Berger, D. Gan, T. Li, V. Srinivasan, G. Swallow. December 2001.
     (Format: TXT=132264 bytes) (Updated by RFC3936, RFC4420, RFC4874,
     RFC5151) (Status: PROPOSED STANDARD)

----------- end -------------------------
I think it is confusing since the order <N, L>is not allowed by RFC 3209.

Why is the implementation of the pushing the interface-address sub-object
onto RRO not mandatory in RFC 4561 while it is mandatory in RFC3209?

Has any vendor implemented using <N, L> format?

Any suggestion or comments are appreciated.

Regards,
- Kenichi


On Wed, 30 Jul 2008 11:47:15 -0400
"Harish Sitaraman" <hsitaraman@juniper.net> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Regarding RFC 4561: Definition of RRO Node-Id Sub-Object
> 
> RFC 4561 does not seem to clearly specify certain details regarding the 
> allowed formats in the RRO and how such information in the RRO could be
> parsed by a PLR.
> 
> Would it be possible for somebody to provide some clarifications for the
> 
> following issues ? 
> --
> 
> For the purpose of this discussion, we would like to use the following
> symbols:
> 
> N   = node-id (node-id sub-object)
> I   = interface-address (IPv4 sub-object)
> L   = label
> |   = marker distinguishing information from adjacent nodes
> < > = Order of RRO information from a single node
> 
> 1. Section 3 seems to allow various formats in the RRO when adding the
> node-id
>    sub-object. Its not clear whether points (1) and (2) list the set of
> formats
>    that are allowed or if these just serve as examples of certain
> formats.
>    
>    From interpretation, it seems like the following are allowed:
> 
>    Point (1) example: <N, L> ; <N, I, L> , <N, L, I>, <I, N, L>, <I, L,
> N>
> 
>    Point (2) example: <I, L, N> though the order of the objects is not
>                       specified. 
> 
>    If <N, L, I> , <I, L, N> and <N, L> are allowed, then these are not
> compliant 
>    with RFC 3209 since only interface addresses seem to be allowed in
> the IPv4
>    sub-object and the IPv4 sub-object is pushed after pushing the label.
> 
>    Section 4.4.1.1. Subobject 1: IPv4 address:
> 
>      IPv4 address
> 
>          A 32-bit unicast, host address. Any network-reachable
>          interface address is allowed here. Illegal addresses, such as
>          certain loopback addresses, SHOULD NOT be used.
> 
>    Section 4.4.3:
> 
>          The newly added subobject MUST be this router's IP address. The
>          address to be added SHOULD be the interface address of the
> outgoing
>          Path messages.  If there are multiple addresses to choose from,
> the
>          decision is a local matter.  However, it is RECOMMENDED that
> the same
>          address be chosen consistently.
> 
>          The Label Record subobject is pushed onto the RECORD_ROUTE
> object
>          prior to pushing on the node's IP address.  A node MUST NOT
> push on a
>          Label Record subobject without also pushing on an IPv4 or IPv6
>          subobject.
> 
> 
>    RFC 3209 provides clear guidelines regarding the order in which
> objects are
>    pushed on the stack.
> 
>    Such stacking guidelines when pushing a node-id sub-object are
> required. 
> 
>    Considering the above (and since RFC 4561 does not update RFC 3209),
> it  
>    seems like the following formats should not be allowed:
> 
>    <N, L, I>,  <I, L, N>, <N, L>, <I, N, L>
> 
> 2. Section 1 provides the techniques that are used by a PLR in selecting
> a
>    bypass (backup) tunnel. It seems like the description assumes the 
>    existence of a traffic-engineering database and that the IGP-TE 
>    extensions are enabled in the network.
> 
>    There are network scenarios where IGP-TE extensions are not enabled,
> yet LSPs
>    are established using the information provided by the IGP. 
> 
>    This makes it difficult for a PLR to accurately parse the RRO to find
> the 
>    MP address depending on the RRO formats added by downstream routers.
> The
>    addresses added by a node can be incorrectly parsed as belonging to
> the next node.
> 
>    Few examples to illustrate the issue of an upstream node trying to
> differentiate
>    between the formats just by parsing the received RRO:
> 
>    <N L> | <I L> | <I L>
>    and
>    <N L I L> | <I L>
> 
>    <N L I> | <N L>
>    and
>    <N L> | <I N L>
> 
>    <I L N> | <I L>
>    and
>    <I L> | <N I L>
> 
>    <N L I> | <N L> 
>    and
>    <N L> | <I N L>
> 
>    <N I L> | <N L I L>
>    and
>    <N I L> | <N L> | <I L>
> 
>    As seen above, its not possible to clearly find the information added
> by a
>    single node since there isn't any delimiter (label ?) in the RRO.
> This also
>    serves to illustrate that allowing formats that include the label in
> between
>    the addresses makes it difficult to parse the RRO.
> 
>    Using the traffic-engineering database to validate the addresses in
> the above
>    formats to find the set of addresses that belong to a single node
> doesn't work
>    in the inter-area/AS case (especially for node-protection), assuming
> a TE database
>    exists. 
> 
> Thanks,
> Harish
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls




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Subject: [mpls] BGP TE attr last call by softwires WG
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The softwire WG has LC'ed

http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-softwire-bgp-te- 
attribute-01.txt

We will keep open an additional two-week period for wider review  
before moving forward in the publication process. Please have any  
comments to the authors and softwires WG by Aug 26, 2008.

-DWard, Alain Durand
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The softwire WG has LC'ed

http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-softwire-bgp-te- 
attribute-01.txt

We will keep open an additional two-week period for wider review  
before moving forward in the publication process. Please have any  
comments to the authors and softwires WG by Aug 26, 2008.

-DWard, Alain Durand


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From: "Harish Sitaraman" <hsitaraman@juniper.net>
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Hi,

[Reposting earlier message]

Regarding RFC 4561: Definition of RRO Node-Id Sub-Object

RFC 4561 does not seem to clearly specify certain details regarding the
allowed formats in the RRO and how such information in the RRO could be
parsed by a PLR.

Would it be possible for the RFC authors to provide some clarifications
on the following issues ? 
--

For the purpose of this discussion, we would like to use the following
symbols:

N   = node-id (node-id sub-object)
I   = interface-address (IPv4 sub-object)
L   = label
|   = marker distinguishing information from adjacent nodes
< > = Order of RRO information from a single node

1. Section 3 seems to allow various formats in the RRO when adding the 
   node-id sub-object. Its not clear whether points (1) and (2) list the
set 
   of formats that are allowed or if these just serve as examples of
certain 
   formats.
   
   From interpretation, it seems like the following are allowed:

   Point (1) example: <N, L> ; 
                      <N, I, L> , <N, L, I>, <I, N, L>, <I, L, N>

   Point (2) example: <I, L, N> though the order of the objects is not
                      specified. 

   If <N, L, I> , <I, L, N> and <N, L> are allowed, then these are not 
   compliant with RFC 3209 since only interface addresses seem to be 
   allowed in the IPv4 sub-object and the IPv4 sub-object is pushed
after 
   pushing the label.

   Section 4.4.1.1. Subobject 1: IPv4 address:

     IPv4 address

         A 32-bit unicast, host address. Any network-reachable
         interface address is allowed here. Illegal addresses, such as
         certain loopback addresses, SHOULD NOT be used.

   Section 4.4.3:

         The newly added subobject MUST be this router's IP address. The
         address to be added SHOULD be the interface address of the 
         outgoing Path messages.  If there are multiple addresses to 
         choose from, the decision is a local matter.  However, it is 
         RECOMMENDED that the same address be chosen consistently.

         The Label Record subobject is pushed onto the RECORD_ROUTE 
         object prior to pushing on the node's IP address.  A node 
         MUST NOT push on a Label Record subobject without also 
         pushing on an IPv4 or IPv6 subobject.


   RFC 3209 provides clear guidelines regarding the order in which
objects are pushed on the stack.

   Such stacking guidelines when pushing a node-id sub-object are
required. 

   Considering the above (and since RFC 4561 does not update RFC 3209), 
   it seems like the following formats should not be allowed:

   <N, L, I>,  <I, L, N>, <N, L>, <I, N, L>

2. Section 1 provides the techniques that are used by a PLR in selecting
   a bypass (backup) tunnel. It seems like the description assumes the 
   existence of a traffic-engineering database and that the IGP-TE 
   extensions are enabled in the network.

   There are network scenarios where IGP-TE extensions are not enabled,
   yet LSPs are established using the information provided by the IGP. 

   This makes it difficult for a PLR to accurately parse the RRO to find

   the MP address depending on the RRO formats added by downstream
routers. 
   The addresses added by a node can be incorrectly parsed as belonging 
   to the next node.

   Few examples to illustrate the issue of an upstream node trying to 
   differentiate between the formats just by parsing the received RRO:

   <N L> | <I L> | <I L>
   and
   <N L I L> | <I L>

   <N L I> | <N L>
   and
   <N L> | <I N L>

   <I L N> | <I L>
   and
   <I L> | <N I L>

   <N L I> | <N L> 
   and
   <N L> | <I N L>

   <N I L> | <N L I L>
   and
   <N I L> | <N L> | <I L>

   As seen above, its not possible to clearly find the information added
   by a single node since there isn't any delimiter (label ?) in the
RRO. 
   This also serves to illustrate that allowing formats that include the

   label in between the addresses makes it difficult to parse the RRO.

   Using the traffic-engineering database to validate the addresses in 
   the above formats to find the set of addresses that belong to a
single 
   node doesn't work in the inter-area/AS case (especially for
node-protection), 
   assuming a TE database exists. 

Thanks,
Harish
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Subject: [mpls] RFC 5331 on MPLS Upstream Label Assignment and
	Context-Specific Label Space
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A new Request for Comments is now available in online RFC libraries.

        
        RFC 5331

        Title:      MPLS Upstream Label Assignment and 
                    Context-Specific Label Space 
        Author:     R. Aggarwal, Y. Rekhter,
                    E. Rosen
        Status:     Standards Track
        Date:       August 2008
        Mailbox:    rahul@juniper.net, 
                    yakov@juniper.net, 
                    erosen@cisco.com
        Pages:      13
        Characters: 30779
        Updates/Obsoletes/SeeAlso:   None

        I-D Tag:    draft-ietf-mpls-upstream-label-07.txt

        URL:        http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc5331.txt

RFC 3031 limits the MPLS architecture to downstream-assigned MPLS
labels.  This document introduces the notion of upstream-assigned
MPLS labels.  It describes the procedures for upstream MPLS label
assignment and introduces the concept of a "Context-Specific Label
Space".  [STANDARDS TRACK]

This document is a product of the Multiprotocol Label Switching Working Group of the IETF.

This is now a Proposed Standard Protocol.

STANDARDS TRACK: This document specifies an Internet standards track
protocol for the Internet community,and requests discussion and suggestions
for improvements.  Please refer to the current edition of the Internet
Official Protocol Standards (STD 1) for the standardization state and
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Subject: [mpls] RFC 5332 on MPLS Multicast Encapsulations
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A new Request for Comments is now available in online RFC libraries.

        
        RFC 5332

        Title:      MPLS Multicast Encapsulations 
        Author:     T. Eckert, E. Rosen, Ed.,
                    R. Aggarwal, Y. Rekhter
        Status:     Standards Track
        Date:       August 2008
        Mailbox:    eckert@cisco.com, 
                    erosen@cisco.com, 
                    rahul@juniper.net,
                    yakov@juniper.net
        Pages:      11
        Characters: 22887
        Updates:    RFC3032, RFC4023

        I-D Tag:    draft-ietf-mpls-multicast-encaps-10.txt

        URL:        http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc5332.txt

RFC 3032 established two data link layer codepoints for MPLS, used to
distinguish whether the data link layer frame is carrying an MPLS
unicast or an MPLS multicast packet.  However, this usage was never
deployed.  This specification updates RFC 3032 by redefining the
meaning of these two codepoints.  Both codepoints can now be used to
carry multicast packets.  The second codepoint (formerly the
"multicast codepoint") is now to be used only on multiaccess media,
and it is to mean "the top label of the following label stack is an
upstream-assigned label".

RFC 3032 does not specify the destination address to be placed in the
"MAC DA" (Medium Access Layer Destination Address) field of an
ethernet frame that carries an MPLS multicast packet.  This document
provides that specification.

This document updates RFC 3032 and RFC 4023.  [STANDARDS TRACK]

This document is a product of the Multiprotocol Label Switching Working Group of the IETF.

This is now a Proposed Standard Protocol.

STANDARDS TRACK: This document specifies an Internet standards track
protocol for the Internet community,and requests discussion and suggestions
for improvements.  Please refer to the current edition of the Internet
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Multiprotocol Label Switching Working Group of the IETF.


	Title           : Node behavior upon originating and receiving Resource ReserVation Protocol (RSVP) Path Error message
	Author(s)       : J. Vasseur, et al.
	Filename        : draft-ietf-mpls-3209-patherr-03.txt
	Pages           : 8
	Date            : 2008-08-18

The aim of this document is to describe a common practice with regard
to the behavior of a node sending a Resource ReserVation Protocol
(RSVP) Traffic Engineering (TE) Path Error message and to the
behavior of a node receiving an RSVP Path Error message for a
preempted Multi-Protocol Label Switching (MPLS) Traffic Engineering
Label Switched Path (TE LSP).  This document does not define any new
protocol extensions.Requirements Language

The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT",
"SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this
document are to be interpreted as described in RFC 2119 [RFC2119].

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Just a refresh.

Thanks.

JP.

------ Forwarded Message
From: <Internet-Drafts@ietf.org>
Reply-To: <internet-drafts@ietf.org>
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 06:00:01 -0700 (PDT)
To: <i-d-announce@ietf.org>
Cc: <mpls@lists.ietf.org>
Subject: I-D Action:draft-ietf-mpls-3209-patherr-03.txt

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
directories.
This draft is a work item of the Multiprotocol Label Switching Working Group
of the IETF.


 Title           : Node behavior upon originating and receiving Resource
ReserVation Protocol (RSVP) Path Error message
 Author(s)       : J. Vasseur, et al.
 Filename        : draft-ietf-mpls-3209-patherr-03.txt
 Pages           : 8
 Date            : 2008-08-18

The aim of this document is to describe a common practice with regard
to the behavior of a node sending a Resource ReserVation Protocol
(RSVP) Traffic Engineering (TE) Path Error message and to the
behavior of a node receiving an RSVP Path Error message for a
preempted Multi-Protocol Label Switching (MPLS) Traffic Engineering
Label Switched Path (TE LSP).  This document does not define any new
protocol extensions.Requirements Language

The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT",
"SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this
document are to be interpreted as described in RFC 2119 [RFC2119].

A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-mpls-3209-patherr-03.txt

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
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From: George Swallow <swallow@cisco.com>
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During the last call on "EXP field" renamed to  "CoS Field"
draft-ietf-mpls-cosfield-def-04.txt, there were comments on
alternatives to the name COS.

This message initiates a two week poll on whether the name COS
is good enough, or if some other name is needed.  The poll closes
23:59 Sept 1 GMT. 

Please answer with a simple yes or no.  You may send any additional comment
in a separate message (with a different subject line).

...George

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From: "Santiago Alvarez (saalvare)" <saalvare@cisco.com>
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Yes

SA
-- 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On 
> Behalf Of George Swallow (swallow)
> Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 1:24 PM
> To: mpls@ietf.org
> Subject: [mpls] Poll on renaming of EXP field
> 
> During the last call on "EXP field" renamed to  "CoS Field"
> draft-ietf-mpls-cosfield-def-04.txt, there were comments on
> alternatives to the name COS.
> 
> This message initiates a two week poll on whether the name COS
> is good enough, or if some other name is needed.  The poll closes
> 23:59 Sept 1 GMT. 
> 
> Please answer with a simple yes or no.  You may send any 
> additional comment
> in a separate message (with a different subject line).
> 
> ...George
> 
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
> 
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On Mon, 18 Aug 2008, George Swallow wrote:

> During the last call on "EXP field" renamed to  "CoS Field"
> draft-ietf-mpls-cosfield-def-04.txt, there were comments on
> alternatives to the name COS.

I hope you meant discussion to be public, so here goes.

Personally I like the term "TOS" (from the IP field) better than CoS, 
because it's hard to differentiate the terms QoS and CoS in spoken english 
(not that I am a native speaker, but anyway). "Diffserv" is also a better 
alternative than CoS, if TOS seems out of the question for some reason.

-- 
Mikael Abrahamsson    email: swmike@swm.pp.se
_______________________________________________
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From: Huub van Helvoort <hhelvoort@chello.nl>
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Yes.

Cheers, Huub.

George Swallow wrote:
> During the last call on "EXP field" renamed to  "CoS Field"
> draft-ietf-mpls-cosfield-def-04.txt, there were comments on
> alternatives to the name COS.
> 
> This message initiates a two week poll on whether the name COS
> is good enough, or if some other name is needed.  The poll closes
> 23:59 Sept 1 GMT. 
> 
> Please answer with a simple yes or no.  You may send any additional comment
> in a separate message (with a different subject line).
> 
> ...George
> 
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
> 

-- 
================================================================
Always remember that you are unique...just like everyone else...
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Yes. 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On 
> Behalf Of Huub van Helvoort
> Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 5:22 PM
> To: George Swallow (swallow)
> Cc: mpls@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [mpls] Poll on renaming of EXP field
> 
> Yes.
> 
> Cheers, Huub.
> 
> George Swallow wrote:
> > During the last call on "EXP field" renamed to  "CoS Field"
> > draft-ietf-mpls-cosfield-def-04.txt, there were comments on
> > alternatives to the name COS.
> > 
> > This message initiates a two week poll on whether the name COS
> > is good enough, or if some other name is needed.  The poll closes
> > 23:59 Sept 1 GMT. 
> > 
> > Please answer with a simple yes or no.  You may send any 
> additional comment
> > in a separate message (with a different subject line).
> > 
> > ...George
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > mpls mailing list
> > mpls@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
> > 
> 
> -- 
> ================================================================
> Always remember that you are unique...just like everyone else...
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
> 
_______________________________________________
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Public of course!


On 8/18/08 4:55 PM, "Mikael Abrahamsson" <swmike@swm.pp.se> wrote:

> On Mon, 18 Aug 2008, George Swallow wrote:
> 
>> > During the last call on "EXP field" renamed to  "CoS Field"
>> > draft-ietf-mpls-cosfield-def-04.txt, there were comments on
>> > alternatives to the name COS.
> 
> I hope you meant discussion to be public, so here goes.
> 
> Personally I like the term "TOS" (from the IP field) better than CoS,
> because it's hard to differentiate the terms QoS and CoS in spoken english
> (not that I am a native speaker, but anyway). "Diffserv" is also a better
> alternative than CoS, if TOS seems out of the question for some reason.
> 
> --
> Mikael Abrahamsson    email: swmike@swm.pp.se
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
> 



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<HTML>
<HEAD>
<TITLE>Re: [mpls] discussion (was Re: &nbsp;Poll on renaming of EXP field)<=
/TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
<FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE=3D'font-size:14.0px'>Publi=
c of course!<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
On 8/18/08 4:55 PM, &quot;Mikael Abrahamsson&quot; &lt;swmike@swm.pp.se&gt;=
 wrote:<BR>
<BR>
</SPAN></FONT><BLOCKQUOTE><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYL=
E=3D'font-size:14.0px'>On Mon, 18 Aug 2008, George Swallow wrote:<BR>
<BR>
&gt; During the last call on &quot;EXP field&quot; renamed to &nbsp;&quot;C=
oS Field&quot;<BR>
&gt; draft-ietf-mpls-cosfield-def-04.txt, there were comments on<BR>
&gt; alternatives to the name COS.<BR>
<BR>
I hope you meant discussion to be public, so here goes.<BR>
<BR>
Personally I like the term &quot;TOS&quot; (from the IP field) better than =
CoS,<BR>
because it's hard to differentiate the terms QoS and CoS in spoken english<=
BR>
(not that I am a native speaker, but anyway). &quot;Diffserv&quot; is also =
a better<BR>
alternative than CoS, if TOS seems out of the question for some reason.<BR>
<BR>
--<BR>
Mikael Abrahamsson &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;email: swmike@swm.pp.se<BR>
_______________________________________________<BR>
mpls mailing list<BR>
mpls@ietf.org<BR>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls<BR>
<BR>
</SPAN></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STY=
LE=3D'font-size:14.0px'><BR>
</SPAN></FONT>
</BODY>
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_______________________________________________
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mpls@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls

--===============1781289017==--



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Yes.

-shane


On Aug 18, 2008, at 2:23 PM, George Swallow wrote:

> During the last call on "EXP field" renamed to  "CoS Field"
> draft-ietf-mpls-cosfield-def-04.txt, there were comments on
> alternatives to the name COS.
>
> This message initiates a two week poll on whether the name COS
> is good enough, or if some other name is needed.  The poll closes
> 23:59 Sept 1 GMT.
>
> Please answer with a simple yes or no.  You may send any additional  
> comment
> in a separate message (with a different subject line).
>
> ...George
>
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls

_______________________________________________
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Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 09:32:41 +0800
From: Cao Wei <caowayne@huawei.com>
To: George Swallow <swallow@cisco.com>, "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@ietf.org>
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Yes,

Wei Cao
On 2008-08-19, at 04:23:38 George Swallow wrote:

>During the last call on "EXP field" renamed to  "CoS Field"
>draft-ietf-mpls-cosfield-def-04.txt, there were comments on
>alternatives to the name COS.
>
>This message initiates a two week poll on whether the name COS
>is good enough, or if some other name is needed.  The poll closes
>23:59 Sept 1 GMT. 
>
>Please answer with a simple yes or no.  You may send any additional comment
>in a separate message (with a different subject line).
>
>...George
>
>_______________________________________________
>mpls mailing list
>mpls@ietf.org
>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls


Best regards,			
Cao Wei

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yes 

-----Original Message-----
From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
George Swallow
Sent: maandag 18 augustus 2008 22:24
To: mpls@ietf.org
Subject: [mpls] Poll on renaming of EXP field

During the last call on "EXP field" renamed to  "CoS Field"
draft-ietf-mpls-cosfield-def-04.txt, there were comments on alternatives
to the name COS.

This message initiates a two week poll on whether the name COS is good
enough, or if some other name is needed.  The poll closes
23:59 Sept 1 GMT. 

Please answer with a simple yes or no.  You may send any additional
comment in a separate message (with a different subject line).

...George

_______________________________________________
mpls mailing list
mpls@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
_______________________________________________
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mpls@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls


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Yes

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<div dir="ltr">Yes<br></div>

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Yes.

 ________________________________________
Jordan Britnell
 IP Technology Research
 BCE/Bell Canada
 (416) 215-3729
jordan.britnell@bell.ca

-----Original Message-----
From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Cao Wei
Sent: August 18, 2008 9:33 PM
To: George Swallow; mpls@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [mpls] Poll on renaming of EXP field

Yes,

Wei Cao
On 2008-08-19, at 04:23:38 George Swallow wrote:

>During the last call on "EXP field" renamed to  "CoS Field"
>draft-ietf-mpls-cosfield-def-04.txt, there were comments on
>alternatives to the name COS.
>
>This message initiates a two week poll on whether the name COS
>is good enough, or if some other name is needed.  The poll closes
>23:59 Sept 1 GMT.
>
>Please answer with a simple yes or no.  You may send any additional comment
>in a separate message (with a different subject line).
>
>...George
>
>_______________________________________________
>mpls mailing list
>mpls@ietf.org
>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls


Best regards,
Cao Wei

_______________________________________________
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From: Jiang Yuan-long <yljiang@huawei.com>
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Subject: Re: [mpls] Poll on renaming of EXP field
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yes.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "George Swallow" <swallow@cisco.com>
To: <mpls@ietf.org>
Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2008 4:23 AM
Subject: [mpls] Poll on renaming of EXP field


> During the last call on "EXP field" renamed to  "CoS Field"
> draft-ietf-mpls-cosfield-def-04.txt, there were comments on
> alternatives to the name COS.
>
> This message initiates a two week poll on whether the name COS
> is good enough, or if some other name is needed.  The poll closes
> 23:59 Sept 1 GMT.
>
> Please answer with a simple yes or no.  You may send any additional 
> comment
> in a separate message (with a different subject line).
>
> ...George
>
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
> 


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yes


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "George Swallow" <swallow@cisco.com>
To: <mpls@ietf.org>
Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2008 4:23 AM
Subject: [mpls] Poll on renaming of EXP field


> During the last call on "EXP field" renamed to  "CoS Field"
> draft-ietf-mpls-cosfield-def-04.txt, there were comments on
> alternatives to the name COS.
>
> This message initiates a two week poll on whether the name COS
> is good enough, or if some other name is needed.  The poll closes
> 23:59 Sept 1 GMT.
>
> Please answer with a simple yes or no.  You may send any additional 
> comment
> in a separate message (with a different subject line).
>
> ...George
>
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
> 


_______________________________________________
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Subject: Re: [mpls] Poll on renaming of EXP field
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Yes

On Aug 18, 2008, at 4:23 PM, George Swallow wrote:

> During the last call on "EXP field" renamed to  "CoS Field"
> draft-ietf-mpls-cosfield-def-04.txt, there were comments on
> alternatives to the name COS.
>
> This message initiates a two week poll on whether the name COS
> is good enough, or if some other name is needed.  The poll closes
> 23:59 Sept 1 GMT.
>
> Please answer with a simple yes or no.  You may send any additional  
> comment
> in a separate message (with a different subject line).
>
> ...George
>
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls

_______________________________________________
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yes

----- Original Message -----
From: "George Swallow" <swallow@cisco.com>
To: <mpls@ietf.org>
Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2008 4:23 AM
Subject: [mpls] Poll on renaming of EXP field


> During the last call on "EXP field" renamed to  "CoS Field"
> draft-ietf-mpls-cosfield-def-04.txt, there were comments on
> alternatives to the name COS.
>
> This message initiates a two week poll on whether the name COS
> is good enough, or if some other name is needed.  The poll closes
> 23:59 Sept 1 GMT.
>
> Please answer with a simple yes or no.  You may send any additional 
> comment
> in a separate message (with a different subject line).
>
> ...George
>
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
> 


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yes

On Aug 18, 2008, at 4:23 PM, George Swallow wrote:

> During the last call on "EXP field" renamed to  "CoS Field"
> draft-ietf-mpls-cosfield-def-04.txt, there were comments on
> alternatives to the name COS.
>
> This message initiates a two week poll on whether the name COS
> is good enough, or if some other name is needed.  The poll closes
> 23:59 Sept 1 GMT.
>
> Please answer with a simple yes or no.  You may send any additional  
> comment
> in a separate message (with a different subject line).
>
> ...George
>
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls

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Yes
 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On 
> Behalf Of George Swallow
> Sent: 18 August 2008 21:24
> To: mpls@ietf.org
> Subject: [mpls] Poll on renaming of EXP field
> 
> During the last call on "EXP field" renamed to  "CoS Field"
> draft-ietf-mpls-cosfield-def-04.txt, there were comments on 
> alternatives to the name COS.
> 
> This message initiates a two week poll on whether the name 
> COS is good enough, or if some other name is needed.  The poll closes
> 23:59 Sept 1 GMT. 
> 
> Please answer with a simple yes or no.  You may send any 
> additional comment in a separate message (with a different 
> subject line).
> 
> ...George
> 
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
> 
_______________________________________________
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Subject: Re: [mpls] discussion (was Re:  Poll on renaming of EXP field)
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I don't really care about the name. But just wanted to mention that CoS is a
bit misleading, because for example in L-LSP, the EXP bits are used to
indicate the drop precedence and not Class of Service. Even in E-LSP the EXP
bits indicate a combination of CoS and drop precedence. My suggestion would
be DS filed for (Diffserv).
 
-Shahram
 
From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
George Swallow
Sent: August-18-08 5:55 PM
To: Mikael Abrahamsson; mpls@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [mpls] discussion (was Re: Poll on renaming of EXP field)
 
Public of course!


On 8/18/08 4:55 PM, "Mikael Abrahamsson" <swmike@swm.pp.se> wrote:
On Mon, 18 Aug 2008, George Swallow wrote:

> During the last call on "EXP field" renamed to  "CoS Field"
> draft-ietf-mpls-cosfield-def-04.txt, there were comments on
> alternatives to the name COS.

I hope you meant discussion to be public, so here goes.

Personally I like the term "TOS" (from the IP field) better than CoS,
because it's hard to differentiate the terms QoS and CoS in spoken english
(not that I am a native speaker, but anyway). "Diffserv" is also a better
alternative than CoS, if TOS seems out of the question for some reason.

--
Mikael Abrahamsson    email: swmike@swm.pp.se
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<body lang=3DEN-CA link=3Dblue vlink=3Dpurple =
style=3D'tab-interval:36.0pt'>

<div class=3DSection1>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:#1F497D'>I don&#8217;t =
really care
about the name. But just wanted to mention that CoS is a bit misleading,
because for example in L-LSP, the EXP bits are used to indicate the drop
precedence and not Class of Service. Even in E-LSP the EXP bits indicate =
a
combination of CoS and drop precedence. My suggestion would be DS filed =
for (Diffserv).<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'>-Shahram<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<div>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt =
0cm 0cm 0cm'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";mso-ansi-language:
EN-US'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New =
Roman";mso-ansi-language:
EN-US'> mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On =
Behalf Of </b>George
Swallow<br>
<b>Sent:</b> August-18-08 5:55 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Mikael Abrahamsson; mpls@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [mpls] discussion (was Re: Poll on renaming of EXP =
field)<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;
font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New =
Roman"'>Public
of course!<br>
<br>
<br>
On 8/18/08 4:55 PM, &quot;Mikael Abrahamsson&quot; =
&lt;swmike@swm.pp.se&gt;
wrote:</span><span style=3D'mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New =
Roman"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;
font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New =
Roman"'>On
Mon, 18 Aug 2008, George Swallow wrote:<br>
<br>
&gt; During the last call on &quot;EXP field&quot; renamed to =
&nbsp;&quot;CoS
Field&quot;<br>
&gt; draft-ietf-mpls-cosfield-def-04.txt, there were comments on<br>
&gt; alternatives to the name COS.<br>
<br>
I hope you meant discussion to be public, so here goes.<br>
<br>
Personally I like the term &quot;TOS&quot; (from the IP field) better =
than CoS,<br>
because it's hard to differentiate the terms QoS and CoS in spoken =
english<br>
(not that I am a native speaker, but anyway). &quot;Diffserv&quot; is =
also a
better<br>
alternative than CoS, if TOS seems out of the question for some =
reason.<br>
<br>
--<br>
Mikael Abrahamsson &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;email: swmike@swm.pp.se<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
mpls mailing list<br>
mpls@ietf.org<br>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls</span><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-font-family:
"Times New Roman"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New =
Roman"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

</div>

</body>

</html>

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--===============1317876895==--



From mpls-bounces@ietf.org  Tue Aug 19 07:42:26 2008
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From: "Eric Gray" <eric.gray@ericsson.com>
To: "George Swallow" <swallow@cisco.com>, "Loa Andersson" <loa@pi.nu>
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Cc: mpls@ietf.org
Subject: [mpls] Question for clarification (was RE: Poll on renaming of EXP
	field)
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George/Loa,

	I am concerned that we may be signing ourselves up for
a slew of RFC revisions/replacements in making this name
change.

	Just to make things clearer - is it the intention that
we're creating a single RFC that explains the change and will
then be listed as "updating" all RFCs that currently use the
term "EXP", or are we in fact signing up to replace a number
of RFCs?

	It's one thing to decide that the field name "CoS" is 
not worse than the name "EXP"; it is quite another thing to 
sign up for churning a number of RFCs to replace a term - 
because it is "nor worse than" the existing term.

	Another thing to consider is that - even if we plan
only to list this new RFC as "updating" all of the RFCs that
currently refer to the field name "EXP" - we may be setting 
a record for the number of RFCs "updated" by a single new 
RFC.  Given the number of people who still refer to RFC 2547
VPNs, it is not all that clear what difference an RFC that 
proposes to change a field name from "EXP bits" to "CoS bits"
will really have.  However, if we don't even list this RFC as 
"updating" these other RFCs, then it is very likely that the 
new RFC will have even less impact on usage (possibly having
no effect what-so-ever over the long run) - since a person 
reading any of these existing RFCs will have no particular
reason to know about this new one.

	In my opinion, a better use of everybody's time would
be to write an RFC that simply explains the way the IETF's 
use of the term "Experimental" actually works (i.e. - you 
do not get to pick experimental values, or define symantic
meanings for a set of values, for use in the Internet scope 
without obtaining a specific value (or values) from a number
space manager, such as IANA).  Such a thing would be quite a
reasonable thing to do as a simple process BCP.

--
Eric Gray
Principal Engineer
Ericsson  

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On 
> Behalf Of George Swallow
> Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 4:24 PM
> To: mpls@ietf.org
> Subject: [mpls] Poll on renaming of EXP field
> 
> During the last call on "EXP field" renamed to  "CoS Field"
> draft-ietf-mpls-cosfield-def-04.txt, there were comments on
> alternatives to the name COS.
> 
> This message initiates a two week poll on whether the name COS
> is good enough, or if some other name is needed.  The poll closes
> 23:59 Sept 1 GMT. 
> 
> Please answer with a simple yes or no.  You may send any 
> additional comment
> in a separate message (with a different subject line).
> 
> ...George
> 
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
> 
_______________________________________________
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No.

--
Eric Gray
Principal Engineer
Ericsson  

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On 
> Behalf Of George Swallow
> Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 4:24 PM
> To: mpls@ietf.org
> Subject: [mpls] Poll on renaming of EXP field
> 
> During the last call on "EXP field" renamed to  "CoS Field"
> draft-ietf-mpls-cosfield-def-04.txt, there were comments on
> alternatives to the name COS.
> 
> This message initiates a two week poll on whether the name COS
> is good enough, or if some other name is needed.  The poll closes
> 23:59 Sept 1 GMT. 
> 
> Please answer with a simple yes or no.  You may send any 
> additional comment
> in a separate message (with a different subject line).
> 
> ...George
> 
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
> 
_______________________________________________
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Cc: mpls@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [mpls] Poll on renaming of EXP field
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Yes

On 8/19/08, Eric Gray <eric.gray@ericsson.com> wrote:
>
> No.
>
> --
> Eric Gray
> Principal Engineer
> Ericsson
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On
> > Behalf Of George Swallow
> > Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 4:24 PM
> > To: mpls@ietf.org
> > Subject: [mpls] Poll on renaming of EXP field
> >
> > During the last call on "EXP field" renamed to  "CoS Field"
> > draft-ietf-mpls-cosfield-def-04.txt, there were comments on
> > alternatives to the name COS.
> >
> > This message initiates a two week poll on whether the name COS
> > is good enough, or if some other name is needed.  The poll closes
> > 23:59 Sept 1 GMT.
> >
> > Please answer with a simple yes or no.  You may send any
> > additional comment
> > in a separate message (with a different subject line).
> >
> > ...George
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > mpls mailing list
> > mpls@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
> >
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>



-- 
pUrNamadah pUrNamidam
pUrNAt pUrNamudachyate
pUrNasya pUrNamAdAya
pUrNamevAvashiShyate

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Yes<br><br>
<div><span class="gmail_quote">On 8/19/08, <b class="gmail_sendername">Eric Gray</b> &lt;<a href="mailto:eric.gray@ericsson.com">eric.gray@ericsson.com</a>&gt; wrote:</span>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">No.<br><br>--<br>Eric Gray<br>Principal Engineer<br>Ericsson<br><br>&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>&gt; From: <a href="mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org">mpls-bounces@ietf.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org">mpls-bounces@ietf.org</a>] On<br>
&gt; Behalf Of George Swallow<br>&gt; Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 4:24 PM<br>&gt; To: <a href="mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a><br>&gt; Subject: [mpls] Poll on renaming of EXP field<br>&gt;<br>&gt; During the last call on &quot;EXP field&quot; renamed to&nbsp;&nbsp;&quot;CoS Field&quot;<br>
&gt; draft-ietf-mpls-cosfield-def-04.txt, there were comments on<br>&gt; alternatives to the name COS.<br>&gt;<br>&gt; This message initiates a two week poll on whether the name COS<br>&gt; is good enough, or if some other name is needed.&nbsp;&nbsp;The poll closes<br>
&gt; 23:59 Sept 1 GMT.<br>&gt;<br>&gt; Please answer with a simple yes or no.&nbsp;&nbsp;You may send any<br>&gt; additional comment<br>&gt; in a separate message (with a different subject line).<br>&gt;<br>&gt; ...George<br>&gt;<br>
&gt; _______________________________________________<br>&gt; mpls mailing list<br>&gt; <a href="mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a><br>&gt; <a href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls</a><br>
&gt;<br>_______________________________________________<br>mpls mailing list<br><a href="mailto:mpls@ietf.org">mpls@ietf.org</a><br><a href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls</a><br>
</blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>pUrNamadah pUrNamidam <br>pUrNAt pUrNamudachyate <br>pUrNasya pUrNamAdAya<br>pUrNamevAvashiShyate 

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Hi all,
       Seems to me that the Eric proposal is quite good, probably is the ea=
siest way to solve this issue.

Just my two cents

BR

D



> -----Original Message-----
> From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
> Eric Gray
> Sent: marted=EC 19 agosto 2008 16.42
> To: George Swallow; Loa Andersson
> Cc: mpls@ietf.org
> Subject: [mpls] Question for clarification (was RE: Poll on renaming of
> EXPfield)
> =

> George/Loa,
> =

> 	I am concerned that we may be signing ourselves up for
> a slew of RFC revisions/replacements in making this name
> change.
> =

> 	Just to make things clearer - is it the intention that
> we're creating a single RFC that explains the change and will
> then be listed as "updating" all RFCs that currently use the
> term "EXP", or are we in fact signing up to replace a number
> of RFCs?
> =

> 	It's one thing to decide that the field name "CoS" is
> not worse than the name "EXP"; it is quite another thing to
> sign up for churning a number of RFCs to replace a term -
> because it is "nor worse than" the existing term.
> =

> 	Another thing to consider is that - even if we plan
> only to list this new RFC as "updating" all of the RFCs that
> currently refer to the field name "EXP" - we may be setting
> a record for the number of RFCs "updated" by a single new
> RFC.  Given the number of people who still refer to RFC 2547
> VPNs, it is not all that clear what difference an RFC that
> proposes to change a field name from "EXP bits" to "CoS bits"
> will really have.  However, if we don't even list this RFC as
> "updating" these other RFCs, then it is very likely that the
> new RFC will have even less impact on usage (possibly having
> no effect what-so-ever over the long run) - since a person
> reading any of these existing RFCs will have no particular
> reason to know about this new one.
> =

> 	In my opinion, a better use of everybody's time would
> be to write an RFC that simply explains the way the IETF's
> use of the term "Experimental" actually works (i.e. - you
> do not get to pick experimental values, or define symantic
> meanings for a set of values, for use in the Internet scope
> without obtaining a specific value (or values) from a number
> space manager, such as IANA).  Such a thing would be quite a
> reasonable thing to do as a simple process BCP.
> =

> --
> Eric Gray
> Principal Engineer
> Ericsson
> =

> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On
> > Behalf Of George Swallow
> > Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 4:24 PM
> > To: mpls@ietf.org
> > Subject: [mpls] Poll on renaming of EXP field
> >
> > During the last call on "EXP field" renamed to  "CoS Field"
> > draft-ietf-mpls-cosfield-def-04.txt, there were comments on
> > alternatives to the name COS.
> >
> > This message initiates a two week poll on whether the name COS
> > is good enough, or if some other name is needed.  The poll closes
> > 23:59 Sept 1 GMT.
> >
> > Please answer with a simple yes or no.  You may send any
> > additional comment
> > in a separate message (with a different subject line).
> >
> > ...George
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > mpls mailing list
> > mpls@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
> >
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
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No.

Francois


On 18 Aug 2008, at 22:23, George Swallow wrote:

> During the last call on "EXP field" renamed to  "CoS Field"
> draft-ietf-mpls-cosfield-def-04.txt, there were comments on
> alternatives to the name COS.
>
> This message initiates a two week poll on whether the name COS
> is good enough, or if some other name is needed.  The poll closes
> 23:59 Sept 1 GMT.
>
> Please answer with a simple yes or no.  You may send any additional  
> comment
> in a separate message (with a different subject line).
>
> ...George
>
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls

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--NextPart

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Multiprotocol Label Switching Working Group of the IETF.


	Title           : A Link-Type sub-TLV to convey the number of Traffic Engineering Label Switched Paths signalled with zero reserved bandwidth across a link
	Author(s)       : J. Vasseur, et al.
	Filename        : draft-ietf-mpls-number-0-bw-te-lsps-10.txt
	Pages           : 9
	Date            : 2008-08-19

Several Link-type sub-TLVs have been defined for OSPF and IS-IS in
the context of Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) Traffic
Engineering (TE) in order to advertise some link characteristics such
as the available bandwidth, traffic engineering metric,
administrative group and so on.  By making statistical assumption
about the aggregated traffic carried onto a set of TE Label Switched
Paths (LSPs) signalled with zero bandwith (referred to as
unconstrained TE LSP in this document), and with the knowledge of the
number of unconstrained TE LSPs signalled across a link, algorithms
can be designed to load balance (existing or newly configured)
unconstrained TE LSP across a set of equal cost paths.  This requires
knowledge of the number of unconstrained TE LSPs signalled across a
link.  This document specifies a new Link-type Traffic Engineering
sub-TLV used to advertise the number of unconstrained TE LSP(s)
signalled across a link.

A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-mpls-number-0-bw-te-lsps-10.txt

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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Multiprotocol Label Switching Working Group of the IETF.


	Title           : A Link-Type sub-TLV to convey the number of Traffic Engineering Label Switched Paths signalled with zero reserved bandwidth across a link
	Author(s)       : J. Vasseur, et al.
	Filename        : draft-ietf-mpls-number-0-bw-te-lsps-11.txt
	Pages           : 9
	Date            : 2008-08-19

Several Link-type sub-TLVs have been defined for OSPF and IS-IS in
the context of Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) Traffic
Engineering (TE) in order to advertise some link characteristics such
as the available bandwidth, traffic engineering metric,
administrative group and so on.  By making statistical assumption
about the aggregated traffic carried onto a set of TE Label Switched
Paths (LSPs) signalled with zero bandwith (referred to as
unconstrained TE LSP in this document), and with the knowledge of the
number of unconstrained TE LSPs signalled across a link, algorithms
can be designed to load balance (existing or newly configured)
unconstrained TE LSP across a set of equal cost paths.  This requires
knowledge of the number of unconstrained TE LSPs signalled across a
link.  This document specifies a new Link-type Traffic Engineering
sub-TLV used to advertise the number of unconstrained TE LSP(s)
signalled across a link.

A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-mpls-number-0-bw-te-lsps-11.txt

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	of	EXPfield)
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Hi,

I also agree with Eric. First of all the EXP bits are not only used for CoS
but also for Drop Precedence (RFC 3270 proposed standard)) and Explicit
Congestion notification (RFC5129 Proposed standard). Also IETF may decide to
have other uses for EXP bits in the future. So an RFC that explains this and
says that the EXP bits are reserved for IETF use only and explaining that
they are not really for experimental purpose is a better approach.

Shahram

-----Original Message-----
From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
Diego Caviglia
Sent: August-19-08 11:32 AM
To: Eric Gray; George Swallow; Loa Andersson
Cc: mpls@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [mpls] Question for clarification (was RE: Poll on renaming of
EXPfield)

Hi all,
       Seems to me that the Eric proposal is quite good, probably is the
easiest way to solve this issue.

Just my two cents

BR

D



> -----Original Message-----
> From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
> Eric Gray
> Sent: marted=EC 19 agosto 2008 16.42
> To: George Swallow; Loa Andersson
> Cc: mpls@ietf.org
> Subject: [mpls] Question for clarification (was RE: Poll on renaming of
> EXPfield)
> =

> George/Loa,
> =

> 	I am concerned that we may be signing ourselves up for
> a slew of RFC revisions/replacements in making this name
> change.
> =

> 	Just to make things clearer - is it the intention that
> we're creating a single RFC that explains the change and will
> then be listed as "updating" all RFCs that currently use the
> term "EXP", or are we in fact signing up to replace a number
> of RFCs?
> =

> 	It's one thing to decide that the field name "CoS" is
> not worse than the name "EXP"; it is quite another thing to
> sign up for churning a number of RFCs to replace a term -
> because it is "nor worse than" the existing term.
> =

> 	Another thing to consider is that - even if we plan
> only to list this new RFC as "updating" all of the RFCs that
> currently refer to the field name "EXP" - we may be setting
> a record for the number of RFCs "updated" by a single new
> RFC.  Given the number of people who still refer to RFC 2547
> VPNs, it is not all that clear what difference an RFC that
> proposes to change a field name from "EXP bits" to "CoS bits"
> will really have.  However, if we don't even list this RFC as
> "updating" these other RFCs, then it is very likely that the
> new RFC will have even less impact on usage (possibly having
> no effect what-so-ever over the long run) - since a person
> reading any of these existing RFCs will have no particular
> reason to know about this new one.
> =

> 	In my opinion, a better use of everybody's time would
> be to write an RFC that simply explains the way the IETF's
> use of the term "Experimental" actually works (i.e. - you
> do not get to pick experimental values, or define symantic
> meanings for a set of values, for use in the Internet scope
> without obtaining a specific value (or values) from a number
> space manager, such as IANA).  Such a thing would be quite a
> reasonable thing to do as a simple process BCP.
> =

> --
> Eric Gray
> Principal Engineer
> Ericsson
> =

> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On
> > Behalf Of George Swallow
> > Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 4:24 PM
> > To: mpls@ietf.org
> > Subject: [mpls] Poll on renaming of EXP field
> >
> > During the last call on "EXP field" renamed to  "CoS Field"
> > draft-ietf-mpls-cosfield-def-04.txt, there were comments on
> > alternatives to the name COS.
> >
> > This message initiates a two week poll on whether the name COS
> > is good enough, or if some other name is needed.  The poll closes
> > 23:59 Sept 1 GMT.
> >
> > Please answer with a simple yes or no.  You may send any
> > additional comment
> > in a separate message (with a different subject line).
> >
> > ...George
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > mpls mailing list
> > mpls@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
> >
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
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No.

-----Original Message-----
From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
George Swallow
Sent: August-18-08 4:24 PM
To: mpls@ietf.org
Subject: [mpls] Poll on renaming of EXP field

During the last call on "EXP field" renamed to  "CoS Field"
draft-ietf-mpls-cosfield-def-04.txt, there were comments on
alternatives to the name COS.

This message initiates a two week poll on whether the name COS
is good enough, or if some other name is needed.  The poll closes
23:59 Sept 1 GMT. 

Please answer with a simple yes or no.  You may send any additional comment
in a separate message (with a different subject line).

...George

_______________________________________________
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Hi,

Someone earlier suggested "Traffic Management". While it can most  
certainly be argued this would not be a perfect name either (or other  
names would be closer to "perfection"), is there a good argument I am  
missing for why "COS" is obviously better (or more "good enough")  
than "Traffic Management"? (considering we want to capture both  
Diffserv and ECN/PCN use of EXP field)

Thanks

Francois


On 18 Aug 2008, at 22:23, George Swallow wrote:

> During the last call on "EXP field" renamed to  "CoS Field"
> draft-ietf-mpls-cosfield-def-04.txt, there were comments on
> alternatives to the name COS.
>
> This message initiates a two week poll on whether the name COS
> is good enough, or if some other name is needed.  The poll closes
> 23:59 Sept 1 GMT.
>
> Please answer with a simple yes or no.  You may send any additional  
> comment
> in a separate message (with a different subject line).
>
> ...George
>
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls

_______________________________________________
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No
On 18.08.2008, at 22:23, George Swallow wrote:

> During the last call on "EXP field" renamed to  "CoS Field"
> draft-ietf-mpls-cosfield-def-04.txt, there were comments on
> alternatives to the name COS.
>
> This message initiates a two week poll on whether the name COS
> is good enough, or if some other name is needed.  The poll closes
> 23:59 Sept 1 GMT.
>
> Please answer with a simple yes or no.  You may send any additional  
> comment
> in a separate message (with a different subject line).
>
> ...George
>
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls

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Thread-Topic: *** Revised ID needed *** Last Call:
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	bandwidthacross a link) to Propose
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Subject: [mpls] FW: *** Revised ID needed *** Last Call:
 draft-ietf-mpls-number-0-bw-te-lsps (ALink-Type sub-TLV to convey the
 number of Traffic EngineeringLabel Switched Paths signalled with zero
 reserved bandwidthacross a link) to Propose
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Dear WGs,

We just posted the new revision of draft-ietf-mpls-number-0-bw-te-lsps:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-mpls-number-0-bw-te-lsps-11.=
t
xt=20

The changes takes into account the comment received during WG LCs and are
summarized below:
>>=20
>>>> =20
>>>>  Here are some comments from various lists that I can find on the ISIS
>>>> aspects:
>>>> =20
>>>> =20
>>>>  -----------------------------------
>>>>  "Section 1:
>>>> =20
>>>>  s/Constraint/Constrained
>>>> =20
>>>>  Section 2 Paragraph 3 First Sentence
>>>> =20
>>>>  s/assumption/assumptions
>>>> =20
>>>>  s/unconstrained TE Label Switched Path/unconstrained TE Label Switche=
d
>>>>  Paths
>>>>  (plural "paths")
>>>> =20
>>>>  JP> Fixed.
>>>> =20
>>>>  Section 3
>>>> =20
>>>>  As the section is discussing two different sub-TLVs (one for IS-IS an=
d
>>>>  one for OSPF) the first sentence should read:
>>>> =20
>>>>  "Two Unconstrained TE LSP count sub-TLVs are defined that specify the
>>>>  =A0=A0 number of TE LSPs signalled with zero bandwidth across a link.
>>>> =20
>>>>  JP> Fixed.
>>>> =20
>>>>  Section 3.1
>>>> =20
>>>>  It might be worth mentioning that the new sub-TLV could also appear i=
n
>>>>  the MT IS-Neighbor TLV (222) - but I won't insist on it as it is
>>>>  generally assumed that anything that appears in TLV 22 could also app=
ear
>>>>  in TLV 222.
>>>>  "
>>>>  JP> OK I added a reference.
>>>>  ---------------------------------------
>>>> =20
>>>>  "
>>>>  if a link flaps and a substantial number of tunnels are going through
>>>>  it, these tunnels will be re-routed through other links. This will
>>>>  trigger flooding of isis lsp's in order to advertise/update the
>>>>  te-lsp-count subtlv, right ? Do we need to specify anything in order =
to
>>>>  prevent storms ?
>>>>  "
>>>> =20
>>>>  This last one is relevant to be addressed w/ some modified text in th=
e
>>>> draft. More to come as I get it.
>>>> =20
>>>>  JP> Which is no different than for any other TE-related TLVs. Even wi=
th
>>>> non-0 bw TE LSPs, if a link flaps they will get rerouted on other link=
s,
>>>> which will change the reserved bandwidth and will trigger the flooding=
 of
>>>> ISIS LSP or OSPF LSA to reflect the updated reserved bandwidth ? This =
is
>>>> why we added =B3Similarly to other MPLS Traffic Engineering link
>>>> characteristics, LSA/LSP origination trigger mechanisms are outside th=
e
>>>> scope of this document.=B2
>>>> =20
>>>>  That being said, I added the following : =B3care must be given to not
>>>> trigger the systematic flooding of a new IS-IS LSP or OSPF LSA with a =
too
>>>> high granularity in case of change of the number of unconstrained TE L=
SPs.=B2
>>>> =20
>>>>  JP> Furthermore, I checked IANA actions, all correct.
>>>> =20
>>>>  -Dward
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> Thanks.
>>>>=20
>>>> JP.
>>>> =20
>>>> =20
>>>> =20
 

--B_3302020031_32415617
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<HTML>
<HEAD>
<TITLE>FW: *** Revised ID needed *** Last Call: draft-ietf-mpls-number-0-bw=
-te-lsps (ALink-Type sub-TLV to convey the number of Traffic EngineeringLabe=
l Switched Paths signalled with zero reserved bandwidthacross a link) to Pro=
pose</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
<FONT FACE=3D"Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE=3D'font-size:13pt=
'>Dear WGs,<BR>
<BR>
We just posted the new revision of </SPAN></FONT><FONT SIZE=3D"1"><FONT FACE=3D=
"Courier, Courier New"><SPAN STYLE=3D'font-size:10pt'>draft-ietf-mpls-number-0=
-bw-te-lsps: <a href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-mpls-nu=
mber-0-bw-te-lsps-11.txt">http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-mpl=
s-number-0-bw-te-lsps-11.txt</a> <BR>
</SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT FACE=3D"Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN =
STYLE=3D'font-size:13pt'><BR>
The changes takes into account the comment received during WG LCs and are s=
ummarized below:<BR>
</SPAN></FONT><BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE><FONT FACE=3D"Calibri, Verdana, Helveti=
ca, Arial"><SPAN STYLE=3D'font-size:13pt'><BR>
</SPAN></FONT><BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE><FONT FACE=3D"Calibri, Verdana, Helveti=
ca, Arial"><SPAN STYLE=3D'font-size:13pt'> <BR>
&nbsp;Here are some comments from various lists that I can find on the ISIS=
 aspects:<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
&nbsp;-----------------------------------<BR>
&nbsp;&quot;Section 1:<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
&nbsp;s/Constraint/Constrained<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
&nbsp;Section 2 Paragraph 3 First Sentence<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
&nbsp;s/assumption/assumptions<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
&nbsp;s/unconstrained TE Label Switched Path/unconstrained TE Label Switche=
d<BR>
&nbsp;Paths<BR>
&nbsp;(plural &quot;paths&quot;)<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
&nbsp;<FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF"><B>JP&gt; Fixed.<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
</B></FONT> Section 3<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
&nbsp;As the section is discussing two different sub-TLVs (one for IS-IS an=
d<BR>
&nbsp;one for OSPF) the first sentence should read:<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
&nbsp;&quot;Two Unconstrained TE LSP count sub-TLVs are defined that specif=
y the<BR>
&nbsp;=A0=A0 number of TE LSPs signalled with zero bandwidth across a link.<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
&nbsp;<FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FE"><B>JP&gt; Fixed.<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
</B></FONT> Section 3.1<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
&nbsp;It might be worth mentioning that the new sub-TLV could also appear i=
n<BR>
&nbsp;the MT IS-Neighbor TLV (222) - but I won't insist on it as it is<BR>
&nbsp;generally assumed that anything that appears in TLV 22 could also app=
ear<BR>
&nbsp;in TLV 222.<BR>
&nbsp;&quot;<BR>
&nbsp;<FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FD"><B>JP&gt; OK I added a reference.<BR>
&nbsp;</B></FONT>---------------------------------------<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
&nbsp;&quot;<BR>
&nbsp;if a link flaps and a substantial number of tunnels are going through=
<BR>
&nbsp;it, these tunnels will be re-routed through other links. This will<BR=
>
&nbsp;trigger flooding of isis lsp's in order to advertise/update the<BR>
&nbsp;te-lsp-count subtlv, right ? Do we need to specify anything in order =
to<BR>
&nbsp;prevent storms ?<BR>
&nbsp;&quot;<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
&nbsp;This last one is relevant to be addressed w/ some modified text in th=
e draft. More to come as I get it.<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
&nbsp;<FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FD"><B>JP&gt; Which is no different than for any ot=
her TE-related TLVs. Even with non-0 bw TE LSPs, if a link flaps they will g=
et rerouted on other links, which will change the reserved bandwidth and wil=
l trigger the flooding of ISIS LSP or OSPF LSA to reflect the updated reserv=
ed bandwidth ? This is why we added &#8220;Similarly to other MPLS Traffic E=
ngineering link characteristics, LSA/LSP origination trigger mechanisms are =
outside the scope of this document.&#8221;<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
&nbsp;That being said, I added the following : &#8220;care must be given to=
 not trigger the systematic flooding of a new IS-IS LSP or OSPF LSA with a t=
oo high granularity in case of change of the number of unconstrained TE LSPs=
.&#8221;<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
</B></FONT> <FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FD"><B>JP&gt; Furthermore, I checked IANA act=
ions, all correct.<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
</B></FONT> -Dward<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Thanks.<BR>
<BR>
JP.<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
</SPAN></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><FONT FAC=
E=3D"Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE=3D'font-size:13pt'> </SPAN>=
</FONT>
</BODY>
</HTML>


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Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 19:52:56 +0200
From: JP Vasseur <jvasseur@cisco.com>
To: <isis-wg@ietf.org>
Message-ID: <C4D0D518.4F3F3%jvasseur@cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: *** Revised ID needed *** Last Call:
	draft-ietf-mpls-number-0-bw-te-lsps (ALink-Type sub-TLV to convey the
	number
	of Traffic EngineeringLabel Switched Paths signalled with zero reserved
	bandwidthacross a link) to Propose
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Subject: Re: [mpls] *** Revised ID needed *** Last Call:
 draft-ietf-mpls-number-0-bw-te-lsps (ALink-Type sub-TLV to convey the
 number of Traffic EngineeringLabel Switched Paths signalled with zero
 reserved bandwidthacross a link) to Propose
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On 8/19/08 7:47 PM, "JP Vasseur" <jvasseur@cisco.com> wrote:

> Dear WGs,
>=20
> We just posted the new revision of draft-ietf-mpls-number-0-bw-te-lsps:
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-mpls-number-0-bw-te-lsps-1=
1.txt
>=20
> The changes takes into account the comment received during WG LCs and are
> summarized below:
>>>=20
>>>>> =20
>>>>>  Here are some comments from various lists that I can find on the ISI=
S
>>>>> aspects:
>>>>> =20
>>>>> =20
>>>>>  -----------------------------------
>>>>>  "Section 1:
>>>>> =20
>>>>>  s/Constraint/Constrained
>>>>> =20
>>>>>  Section 2 Paragraph 3 First Sentence
>>>>> =20
>>>>>  s/assumption/assumptions
>>>>> =20
>>>>>  s/unconstrained TE Label Switched Path/unconstrained TE Label Switch=
ed
>>>>>  Paths
>>>>>  (plural "paths")
>>>>> =20
>>>>>  JP> Fixed.
>>>>> =20
>>>>>  Section 3
>>>>> =20
>>>>>  As the section is discussing two different sub-TLVs (one for IS-IS a=
nd
>>>>>  one for OSPF) the first sentence should read:
>>>>> =20
>>>>>  "Two Unconstrained TE LSP count sub-TLVs are defined that specify th=
e
>>>>>  =A0=A0 number of TE LSPs signalled with zero bandwidth across a link.
>>>>> =20
>>>>>  JP> Fixed.
>>>>> =20
>>>>>  Section 3.1
>>>>> =20
>>>>>  It might be worth mentioning that the new sub-TLV could also appear =
in
>>>>>  the MT IS-Neighbor TLV (222) - but I won't insist on it as it is
>>>>>  generally assumed that anything that appears in TLV 22 could also ap=
pear
>>>>>  in TLV 222.
>>>>>  "
>>>>>  JP> OK I added a reference.
>>>>>  ---------------------------------------
>>>>> =20
>>>>>  "
>>>>>  if a link flaps and a substantial number of tunnels are going throug=
h
>>>>>  it, these tunnels will be re-routed through other links. This will
>>>>>  trigger flooding of isis lsp's in order to advertise/update the
>>>>>  te-lsp-count subtlv, right ? Do we need to specify anything in order=
 to
>>>>>  prevent storms ?
>>>>>  "
>>>>> =20
>>>>>  This last one is relevant to be addressed w/ some modified text in t=
he
>>>>> draft. More to come as I get it.
>>>>> =20
>>>>>  JP> Which is no different than for any other TE-related TLVs. Even w=
ith
>>>>> non-0 bw TE LSPs, if a link flaps they will get rerouted on other lin=
ks,
>>>>> which will change the reserved bandwidth and will trigger the floodin=
g of
>>>>> ISIS LSP or OSPF LSA to reflect the updated reserved bandwidth ? This=
 is
>>>>> why we added =B3Similarly to other MPLS Traffic Engineering link
>>>>> characteristics, LSA/LSP origination trigger mechanisms are outside t=
he
>>>>> scope of this document.=B2
>>>>> =20
>>>>>  That being said, I added the following : =B3care must be given to not
>>>>> trigger the systematic flooding of a new IS-IS LSP or OSPF LSA with a=
 too
>>>>> high granularity in case of change of the number of unconstrained TE
>>>>> LSPs.=B2
>>>>> =20
>>>>>  JP> Furthermore, I checked IANA actions, all correct.
>>>>> =20
>>>>>  -Dward
>>>>>=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> JP.
>>>>> =20
>>>>> =20
>>>>> =20
> =20


--B_3302020377_32408957
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	charset="ISO-8859-1"
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<HTML>
<HEAD>
<TITLE>Re: *** Revised ID needed *** Last Call: draft-ietf-mpls-number-0-bw=
-te-lsps (ALink-Type sub-TLV to convey the number of Traffic EngineeringLabe=
l Switched Paths signalled with zero reserved bandwidthacross a link) to Pro=
pose</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
<FONT FACE=3D"Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE=3D'font-size:13pt=
'><BR>
On 8/19/08 7:47 PM, &quot;JP Vasseur&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"jvasseur@cisco.com"=
>jvasseur@cisco.com</a>&gt; wrote:<BR>
<BR>
</SPAN></FONT><BLOCKQUOTE><FONT FACE=3D"Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><=
SPAN STYLE=3D'font-size:13pt'>Dear WGs,<BR>
<BR>
We just posted the new revision of </SPAN></FONT><FONT SIZE=3D"1"><FONT FACE=3D=
"Courier, Courier New"><SPAN STYLE=3D'font-size:10pt'>draft-ietf-mpls-number-0=
-bw-te-lsps: <a href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-mpls-nu=
mber-0-bw-te-lsps-11.txt">http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-mpl=
s-number-0-bw-te-lsps-11.txt</a> <BR>
</SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT FACE=3D"Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN =
STYLE=3D'font-size:13pt'><BR>
The changes takes into account the comment received during WG LCs and are s=
ummarized below:<BR>
</SPAN></FONT><BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE><FONT FACE=3D"Calibri, Verdana, Helveti=
ca, Arial"><SPAN STYLE=3D'font-size:13pt'><BR>
</SPAN></FONT><BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE><FONT FACE=3D"Calibri, Verdana, Helveti=
ca, Arial"><SPAN STYLE=3D'font-size:13pt'> <BR>
&nbsp;Here are some comments from various lists that I can find on the ISIS=
 aspects:<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
&nbsp;-----------------------------------<BR>
&nbsp;&quot;Section 1:<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
&nbsp;s/Constraint/Constrained<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
&nbsp;Section 2 Paragraph 3 First Sentence<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
&nbsp;s/assumption/assumptions<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
&nbsp;s/unconstrained TE Label Switched Path/unconstrained TE Label Switche=
d<BR>
&nbsp;Paths<BR>
&nbsp;(plural &quot;paths&quot;)<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
&nbsp;<FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF"><B>JP&gt; Fixed.<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
</B></FONT> Section 3<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
&nbsp;As the section is discussing two different sub-TLVs (one for IS-IS an=
d<BR>
&nbsp;one for OSPF) the first sentence should read:<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
&nbsp;&quot;Two Unconstrained TE LSP count sub-TLVs are defined that specif=
y the<BR>
&nbsp;=A0=A0 number of TE LSPs signalled with zero bandwidth across a link.<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
&nbsp;<FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FE"><B>JP&gt; Fixed.<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
</B></FONT> Section 3.1<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
&nbsp;It might be worth mentioning that the new sub-TLV could also appear i=
n<BR>
&nbsp;the MT IS-Neighbor TLV (222) - but I won't insist on it as it is<BR>
&nbsp;generally assumed that anything that appears in TLV 22 could also app=
ear<BR>
&nbsp;in TLV 222.<BR>
&nbsp;&quot;<BR>
&nbsp;<FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FD"><B>JP&gt; OK I added a reference.<BR>
&nbsp;</B></FONT>---------------------------------------<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
&nbsp;&quot;<BR>
&nbsp;if a link flaps and a substantial number of tunnels are going through=
<BR>
&nbsp;it, these tunnels will be re-routed through other links. This will<BR=
>
&nbsp;trigger flooding of isis lsp's in order to advertise/update the<BR>
&nbsp;te-lsp-count subtlv, right ? Do we need to specify anything in order =
to<BR>
&nbsp;prevent storms ?<BR>
&nbsp;&quot;<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
&nbsp;This last one is relevant to be addressed w/ some modified text in th=
e draft. More to come as I get it.<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
&nbsp;<FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FD"><B>JP&gt; Which is no different than for any ot=
her TE-related TLVs. Even with non-0 bw TE LSPs, if a link flaps they will g=
et rerouted on other links, which will change the reserved bandwidth and wil=
l trigger the flooding of ISIS LSP or OSPF LSA to reflect the updated reserv=
ed bandwidth ? This is why we added &#8220;Similarly to other MPLS Traffic E=
ngineering link characteristics, LSA/LSP origination trigger mechanisms are =
outside the scope of this document.&#8221;<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
&nbsp;That being said, I added the following : &#8220;care must be given to=
 not trigger the systematic flooding of a new IS-IS LSP or OSPF LSA with a t=
oo high granularity in case of change of the number of unconstrained TE LSPs=
.&#8221;<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
</B></FONT> <FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FD"><B>JP&gt; Furthermore, I checked IANA act=
ions, all correct.<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
</B></FONT> -Dward<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Thanks.<BR>
<BR>
JP.<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
</SPAN></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><FONT FAC=
E=3D"Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE=3D'font-size:13pt'> <BR>
</SPAN></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>
</BODY>
</HTML>


--B_3302020377_32408957--


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Thread-Topic: [mpls] "Traffic Management" (was Re: Poll on renaming of EXP
	field)
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	<F4B742FA-3A43-429E-A53C-B82A8074B347@cisco.com>
From: "Eric Gray" <eric.gray@ericsson.com>
To: "Francois Le Faucheur IMAP" <flefauch@cisco.com>,
	"George Swallow" <swallow@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [mpls] "Traffic Management" (was Re: Poll on renaming of EXP
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Francois,

	If I didn't care about the potential for extra work (and
possibly confusion as well), I would think "Traffic Management"
a better (because more generic) field name than "CoS" - but it
is still a change that may have far reaching consequences, and
which is better handled by a better explanation of the meaning 
of the field than by any effort to come up with a better name 
for it.

	However, even the field-name "Traffic Management" may
not be generic enough.  

	At present, we seem to be agreed that currently defined 
legitimate uses for the field are all related (at least in a 
stretch) to something to do with how frames are expected to be 
handled in forwarding.  But - given a precedent established in 
RFC 3270 (which, among other things, emphasizes that meaning or
semantics of the field depends on a common understanding of why 
an LSP was established) - it is actually clear that the field 
might mean other things as well.  For example, the field might 
- in some future context - be used to indicate error handling 
for packets that will be dropped, or macro statistics buckets 
that individual packets belong to (unrelated to other handling 
of a packet so marked).

	In fact, we're re-hashing many of the same arguments that
led to the field's being named as it was.

	So, the issue is all about what constitutes a "legitimate 
use" - which I would argue is defined by IETF consensus, and is
an issue better handled by good explanation than by renaming.

--
Eric Gray
Principal Engineer
Ericsson  

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On 
> Behalf Of Francois Le Faucheur IMAP
> Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2008 12:42 PM
> To: George Swallow
> Cc: mpls@ietf.org; Francois Le Faucheur IMAP
> Subject: [mpls] "Traffic Management" (was Re: Poll on 
> renaming of EXP field)
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Someone earlier suggested "Traffic Management". While it can most  
> certainly be argued this would not be a perfect name either 
> (or other  
> names would be closer to "perfection"), is there a good 
> argument I am  
> missing for why "COS" is obviously better (or more "good enough")  
> than "Traffic Management"? (considering we want to capture both  
> Diffserv and ECN/PCN use of EXP field)
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Francois
> 
> 
> On 18 Aug 2008, at 22:23, George Swallow wrote:
> 
> > During the last call on "EXP field" renamed to  "CoS Field"
> > draft-ietf-mpls-cosfield-def-04.txt, there were comments on
> > alternatives to the name COS.
> >
> > This message initiates a two week poll on whether the name COS
> > is good enough, or if some other name is needed.  The poll closes
> > 23:59 Sept 1 GMT.
> >
> > Please answer with a simple yes or no.  You may send any 
> additional  
> > comment
> > in a separate message (with a different subject line).
> >
> > ...George
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > mpls mailing list
> > mpls@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
> 
> _______________________________________________
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Multiprotocol Label Switching Working Group of the IETF.


	Title           : MPLS Traffic Engineering Soft Preemption
	Author(s)       : D. Maddux, et al.
	Filename        : draft-ietf-mpls-soft-preemption-11.txt
	Pages           : 14
	Date            : 2008-08-19

This document specifies Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) Traffic
Engineering Soft Preemption, a suite of protocol modifications
extending the concept of preemption with the goal of reducing/
eliminating traffic disruption of preempted Traffic Engineering Label
Switched Paths (TE LSPs).  Initially MPLS RSVP-TE was defined
supporting only immediate TE LSP displacement upon preemption.  The
utilization of a reroute request notification helps more gracefully
mitigate the re-route process of preempted TE LSP.  For the brief
period soft preemption is activated, reservations (though not
necessarily traffic levels) are in effect under-provisioned until the
TE LSP(s) can be re-routed.  For this reason, the feature is
primarily but not exclusively interesting in MPLS enabled IP networks
with Differentiated Services and Traffic Engineering capabilities.

A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-mpls-soft-preemption-11.txt

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No

George Swallow wrote:
> During the last call on "EXP field" renamed to  "CoS Field"
> draft-ietf-mpls-cosfield-def-04.txt, there were comments on
> alternatives to the name COS.
>
> This message initiates a two week poll on whether the name COS
> is good enough, or if some other name is needed.  The poll closes
> 23:59 Sept 1 GMT. 
>
> Please answer with a simple yes or no.  You may send any additional comment
> in a separate message (with a different subject line).
>
> ...George
>
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>
>   
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Subject: Re: [mpls] "Traffic Management" (was Re: Poll on renaming of EXP
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My "No" vote is a vote in favor of "Traffic Management"

Francois Le Faucheur IMAP wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Someone earlier suggested "Traffic Management". While it can most 
> certainly be argued this would not be a perfect name either (or other 
> names would be closer to "perfection"), is there a good argument I am 
> missing for why "COS" is obviously better (or more "good enough") than 
> "Traffic Management"? (considering we want to capture both Diffserv 
> and ECN/PCN use of EXP field)
>
> Thanks
>
> Francois
>
>
> On 18 Aug 2008, at 22:23, George Swallow wrote:
>
>> During the last call on "EXP field" renamed to  "CoS Field"
>> draft-ietf-mpls-cosfield-def-04.txt, there were comments on
>> alternatives to the name COS.
>>
>> This message initiates a two week poll on whether the name COS
>> is good enough, or if some other name is needed.  The poll closes
>> 23:59 Sept 1 GMT.
>>
>> Please answer with a simple yes or no.  You may send any additional 
>> comment
>> in a separate message (with a different subject line).
>>
>> ...George
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> mpls mailing list
>> mpls@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>
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No

George Swallow wrote:
> During the last call on "EXP field" renamed to  "CoS Field"
> draft-ietf-mpls-cosfield-def-04.txt, there were comments on
> alternatives to the name COS.
>
> This message initiates a two week poll on whether the name COS
> is good enough, or if some other name is needed.  The poll closes
> 23:59 Sept 1 GMT.
>
> Please answer with a simple yes or no.  You may send any additional comment
> in a separate message (with a different subject line).
>
> ...George
>
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>
>  
_______________________________________________
mpls mailing list
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From: "Shah, Himanshu" <hshah@ciena.com>
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	"Francois Le Faucheur IMAP" <flefauch@cisco.com>
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Ditto.

No to CoS, Yes to TM...

/himanshu

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org]On Behalf Of
> John Kenney
> Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2008 2:32 PM
> To: Francois Le Faucheur IMAP
> Cc: mpls@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [mpls] "Traffic Management" (was Re: Poll on renaming of
> EXP field)
> 
> 
> My "No" vote is a vote in favor of "Traffic Management"
> 
> Francois Le Faucheur IMAP wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > Someone earlier suggested "Traffic Management". While it can most 
> > certainly be argued this would not be a perfect name either 
> (or other 
> > names would be closer to "perfection"), is there a good 
> argument I am 
> > missing for why "COS" is obviously better (or more "good 
> enough") than 
> > "Traffic Management"? (considering we want to capture both Diffserv 
> > and ECN/PCN use of EXP field)
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Francois
> >
> >
> > On 18 Aug 2008, at 22:23, George Swallow wrote:
> >
> >> During the last call on "EXP field" renamed to  "CoS Field"
> >> draft-ietf-mpls-cosfield-def-04.txt, there were comments on
> >> alternatives to the name COS.
> >>
> >> This message initiates a two week poll on whether the name COS
> >> is good enough, or if some other name is needed.  The poll closes
> >> 23:59 Sept 1 GMT.
> >>
> >> Please answer with a simple yes or no.  You may send any 
> additional 
> >> comment
> >> in a separate message (with a different subject line).
> >>
> >> ...George
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> mpls mailing list
> >> mpls@ietf.org
> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > mpls mailing list
> > mpls@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
> >
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
> 
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Subject: Re: [mpls] "Traffic Management" (was Re: Poll on renaming of EXP
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Shakespear already wrote:
" What's in a name? That which we call a rose
by any other name would smell as sweet "

Cos or TMF (Traffic Management Field) or ....

Cheers, Huub.
----------------------------------------------

> Ditto.
> 
> No to CoS, Yes to TM...
> 
> /himanshu
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org]On Behalf Of
>> John Kenney
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2008 2:32 PM
>> To: Francois Le Faucheur IMAP
>> Cc: mpls@ietf.org
>> Subject: Re: [mpls] "Traffic Management" (was Re: Poll on renaming of
>> EXP field)
>>
>>
>> My "No" vote is a vote in favor of "Traffic Management"
>>
>> Francois Le Faucheur IMAP wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Someone earlier suggested "Traffic Management". While it can most 
>>> certainly be argued this would not be a perfect name either 
>> (or other 
>>> names would be closer to "perfection"), is there a good 
>> argument I am 
>>> missing for why "COS" is obviously better (or more "good 
>> enough") than 
>>> "Traffic Management"? (considering we want to capture both Diffserv 
>>> and ECN/PCN use of EXP field)
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> Francois
>>>
>>>
>>> On 18 Aug 2008, at 22:23, George Swallow wrote:
>>>
>>>> During the last call on "EXP field" renamed to  "CoS Field"
>>>> draft-ietf-mpls-cosfield-def-04.txt, there were comments on
>>>> alternatives to the name COS.
>>>>
>>>> This message initiates a two week poll on whether the name COS
>>>> is good enough, or if some other name is needed.  The poll closes
>>>> 23:59 Sept 1 GMT.
>>>>
>>>> Please answer with a simple yes or no.  You may send any 
>> additional 
>>>> comment
>>>> in a separate message (with a different subject line).
>>>>
>>>> ...George
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> mpls mailing list
>>>> mpls@ietf.org
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> mpls mailing list
>>> mpls@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> mpls mailing list
>> mpls@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>>
> _______________________________________________
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> mpls@ietf.org
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> 

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Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 15:12:37 -0400
From: George Swallow <swallow@cisco.com>
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	Francois Le Faucheur IMAP <flefauch@cisco.com>
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Thread-Topic: [mpls] "Traffic Management" (was Re: Poll on renaming of EXP
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Cc: mpls@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [mpls] "Traffic Management" (was Re: Poll on renaming of EXP
 field)
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WG Chair hat on:

I think it is important to signal the change by changing the name.  Just
clarifying the meaning of Experimental may result in a document that does
not get read.  Further, there is no registry for the EXP bit usage and that
usage can vary between LSPs running within the same network.  So comparing
this to anything that has a registry and a process of IETF consensus does
not apply well here.

I'm also believe that when this is published as an RFC it will say that it
updates the appropriate RFCs.  Loa, please correct me if I am wrong.

WG Chair hat off:

One of the problems here is that every term used in this general space is
already over-loaded.  Further the emphasis implied by a particular term
varies with context (and consequently with the reader's background).  For
instance the term Traffic Management has very strong connotations for those
involved in the ATM Forum.

My personal view is that the term CoS is good enough.  But I do believe that
type of service (ToS) would have been an improvement.  It's not that I think
"type" is a better term than "class", it is that this would make it the same
as the IPv4 header.  The ToS field in the IP header now encompasses both the
DS codepoint and the ECN codepoint.  These are precisely the functions that
we are now trying to squeeze into three bits of the MPLS Label Stack Entry.

I would argue strongly for this change were it not that in IPv6 the same
function is carried in a field called Traffic Class.

So CoS takes a little from each of v4 and v6.  Good enough.

...George


On 8/19/08 1:53 PM, "Eric Gray" <eric.gray@ericsson.com> wrote:

> Francois,
> 
> If I didn't care about the potential for extra work (and
> possibly confusion as well), I would think "Traffic Management"
> a better (because more generic) field name than "CoS" - but it
> is still a change that may have far reaching consequences, and
> which is better handled by a better explanation of the meaning
> of the field than by any effort to come up with a better name
> for it.
> 
> However, even the field-name "Traffic Management" may
> not be generic enough.
> 
> At present, we seem to be agreed that currently defined
> legitimate uses for the field are all related (at least in a
> stretch) to something to do with how frames are expected to be
> handled in forwarding.  But - given a precedent established in
> RFC 3270 (which, among other things, emphasizes that meaning or
> semantics of the field depends on a common understanding of why
> an LSP was established) - it is actually clear that the field
> might mean other things as well.  For example, the field might
> - in some future context - be used to indicate error handling
> for packets that will be dropped, or macro statistics buckets
> that individual packets belong to (unrelated to other handling
> of a packet so marked).
> 
> In fact, we're re-hashing many of the same arguments that
> led to the field's being named as it was.
> 
> So, the issue is all about what constitutes a "legitimate
> use" - which I would argue is defined by IETF consensus, and is
> an issue better handled by good explanation than by renaming.
> 
> --
> Eric Gray
> Principal Engineer
> Ericsson  
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On
>> Behalf Of Francois Le Faucheur IMAP
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2008 12:42 PM
>> To: George Swallow
>> Cc: mpls@ietf.org; Francois Le Faucheur IMAP
>> Subject: [mpls] "Traffic Management" (was Re: Poll on
>> renaming of EXP field)
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> Someone earlier suggested "Traffic Management". While it can most
>> certainly be argued this would not be a perfect name either
>> (or other  
>> names would be closer to "perfection"), is there a good
>> argument I am  
>> missing for why "COS" is obviously better (or more "good enough")
>> than "Traffic Management"? (considering we want to capture both
>> Diffserv and ECN/PCN use of EXP field)
>> 
>> Thanks
>> 
>> Francois
>> 
>> 
>> On 18 Aug 2008, at 22:23, George Swallow wrote:
>> 
>>> During the last call on "EXP field" renamed to  "CoS Field"
>>> draft-ietf-mpls-cosfield-def-04.txt, there were comments on
>>> alternatives to the name COS.
>>> 
>>> This message initiates a two week poll on whether the name COS
>>> is good enough, or if some other name is needed.  The poll closes
>>> 23:59 Sept 1 GMT.
>>> 
>>> Please answer with a simple yes or no.  You may send any
>> additional  
>>> comment
>>> in a separate message (with a different subject line).
>>> 
>>> ...George
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> mpls mailing list
>>> mpls@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> mpls mailing list
>> mpls@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>> 

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No to CoS, yes to TMF....

Shakespeare was not an engineer...  ;-)

D 

-----Original Message-----
From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
Huub van Helvoort
Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2008 3:13 PM
Cc: mpls@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [mpls] "Traffic Management" (was Re: Poll on renaming of
EXP field)

Shakespear already wrote:
" What's in a name? That which we call a rose by any other name would
smell as sweet "

Cos or TMF (Traffic Management Field) or ....

Cheers, Huub.
----------------------------------------------

> Ditto.
> 
> No to CoS, Yes to TM...
> 
> /himanshu
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org]On Behalf 
>> Of John Kenney
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2008 2:32 PM
>> To: Francois Le Faucheur IMAP
>> Cc: mpls@ietf.org
>> Subject: Re: [mpls] "Traffic Management" (was Re: Poll on renaming of

>> EXP field)
>>
>>
>> My "No" vote is a vote in favor of "Traffic Management"
>>
>> Francois Le Faucheur IMAP wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Someone earlier suggested "Traffic Management". While it can most 
>>> certainly be argued this would not be a perfect name either
>> (or other
>>> names would be closer to "perfection"), is there a good
>> argument I am
>>> missing for why "COS" is obviously better (or more "good
>> enough") than
>>> "Traffic Management"? (considering we want to capture both Diffserv 
>>> and ECN/PCN use of EXP field)
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> Francois
>>>
>>>
>>> On 18 Aug 2008, at 22:23, George Swallow wrote:
>>>
>>>> During the last call on "EXP field" renamed to  "CoS Field"
>>>> draft-ietf-mpls-cosfield-def-04.txt, there were comments on 
>>>> alternatives to the name COS.
>>>>
>>>> This message initiates a two week poll on whether the name COS is 
>>>> good enough, or if some other name is needed.  The poll closes
>>>> 23:59 Sept 1 GMT.
>>>>
>>>> Please answer with a simple yes or no.  You may send any
>> additional
>>>> comment
>>>> in a separate message (with a different subject line).
>>>>
>>>> ...George
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> mpls mailing list
>>>> mpls@ietf.org
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> mpls mailing list
>>> mpls@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> mpls mailing list
>> mpls@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>>
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
> 

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Subject: Re: [mpls] regarding rfc 3036: LDP Label Withdraw Message Procedures
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Yes, multiple labels may be mapped to a single FEC.  This capability is
primarily to support cases where LSP merging cannot be done as in ATM.

...George

Ps.  You should now be looking at RFC5036 which obsoletes RFC3036.


On 8/1/08 10:09 AM, "sutanu kumar" <sutanu_kumar@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> RFC says "The FEC TLV specifies the FEC for which labels are to be withdrawn.
> If no Label TLV follows the FEC, all labels associated with the FEC are to be
> withdrawn"
> 
> What does it mean by "all labels associated with the FEC"? Is it possible to
> map more than one label with a FEC?
> 
> Thanks,
> Sutanu
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have a You@live.in id yet? Get it now. Sign up for a Windows Live ID
> Try it! <http://ss1.richmedia.in/recurl.asp?pid=531>
> 
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<HTML>
<HEAD>
<TITLE>Re: [mpls] regarding rfc 3036: LDP Label Withdraw Message Procedures=
</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
<FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE=3D'font-size:14pt'>Yes, mu=
ltiple labels may be mapped to a single FEC. &nbsp;This capability is primar=
ily to support cases where LSP merging cannot be done as in ATM.<BR>
<BR>
...George<BR>
<BR>
Ps. &nbsp;You should now be looking at RFC5036 which obsoletes RFC3036.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
On 8/1/08 10:09 AM, &quot;sutanu kumar&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"sutanu_kumar@hotm=
ail.com">sutanu_kumar@hotmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<BR>
<BR>
</SPAN></FONT><BLOCKQUOTE><FONT SIZE=3D"1"><FONT FACE=3D"Tahoma, Verdana, Helve=
tica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE=3D'font-size:10pt'>Hi,<BR>
<BR>
RFC says &quot;The FEC TLV specifies the FEC for which labels are to be wit=
hdrawn. If no Label TLV follows the FEC, all labels associated with the FEC =
are to be withdrawn&quot;<BR>
<BR>
What does it mean by &quot;all labels associated with the FEC&quot;? Is it =
possible to map more than one label with a FEC?<BR>
<BR>
Thanks,<BR>
Sutanu<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<HR ALIGN=3DCENTER SIZE=3D"3" WIDTH=3D"100%">Do you have a <a href=3D"You@live.in">=
You@live.in</a> id yet? Get it now. Sign up for a Windows Live ID Try it! &l=
t;<a href=3D"http://ss1.richmedia.in/recurl.asp?pid=3D531">http://ss1.richmedia.=
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<HR ALIGN=3DCENTER SIZE=3D"3" WIDTH=3D"95%"></SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT FACE=3D"Mona=
co, Courier New"><SPAN STYLE=3D'font-size:14pt'>______________________________=
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mpls mailing list<BR>
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<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls">https://www.ietf.org/m=
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Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 16:07:41 -0400
From: "Peng He" <peng.he.2000@gmail.com>
To: "David Allan" <dallan@nortel.com>
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Subject: Re: [mpls] "Traffic Management" (was Re: Poll on renaming of EXP
	field)
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'TMF' looks like the famous "TM Forum", I prefer just "TM"..


Regards,
Peng

On Tue, Aug 19, 2008 at 3:18 PM, David Allan <dallan@nortel.com> wrote:
> No to CoS, yes to TMF....
>
> Shakespeare was not an engineer...  ;-)
>
> D
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
> Huub van Helvoort
> Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2008 3:13 PM
> Cc: mpls@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [mpls] "Traffic Management" (was Re: Poll on renaming of
> EXP field)
>
> Shakespear already wrote:
> " What's in a name? That which we call a rose by any other name would
> smell as sweet "
>
> Cos or TMF (Traffic Management Field) or ....
>
> Cheers, Huub.
> ----------------------------------------------
>
>> Ditto.
>>
>> No to CoS, Yes to TM...
>>
>> /himanshu
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org]On Behalf
>>> Of John Kenney
>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2008 2:32 PM
>>> To: Francois Le Faucheur IMAP
>>> Cc: mpls@ietf.org
>>> Subject: Re: [mpls] "Traffic Management" (was Re: Poll on renaming of
>
>>> EXP field)
>>>
>>>
>>> My "No" vote is a vote in favor of "Traffic Management"
>>>
>>> Francois Le Faucheur IMAP wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> Someone earlier suggested "Traffic Management". While it can most
>>>> certainly be argued this would not be a perfect name either
>>> (or other
>>>> names would be closer to "perfection"), is there a good
>>> argument I am
>>>> missing for why "COS" is obviously better (or more "good
>>> enough") than
>>>> "Traffic Management"? (considering we want to capture both Diffserv
>>>> and ECN/PCN use of EXP field)
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>>
>>>> Francois
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 18 Aug 2008, at 22:23, George Swallow wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> During the last call on "EXP field" renamed to  "CoS Field"
>>>>> draft-ietf-mpls-cosfield-def-04.txt, there were comments on
>>>>> alternatives to the name COS.
>>>>>
>>>>> This message initiates a two week poll on whether the name COS is
>>>>> good enough, or if some other name is needed.  The poll closes
>>>>> 23:59 Sept 1 GMT.
>>>>>
>>>>> Please answer with a simple yes or no.  You may send any
>>> additional
>>>>> comment
>>>>> in a separate message (with a different subject line).
>>>>>
>>>>> ...George
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> mpls mailing list
>>>>> mpls@ietf.org
>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> mpls mailing list
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>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>
> --
> ================================================================
>                   http://www.van-helvoort.eu/
> ================================================================
> Always remember that you are unique...just like everyone else...
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George,

	WRT the use of TM by ATM, it is (as I mentioned at the
MPLS meeting) less interesting that "TM" has previously had a 
different meaning relative to ATM, than it is that "CoS" 
currently has a different meaning relative to the potential
use of MPLS in support of MEF ethernet services.

--
Eric Gray
Principal Engineer
Ericsson  

> -----Original Message-----
> From: George Swallow [mailto:swallow@cisco.com] 
> Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2008 3:13 PM
> To: Eric Gray; Francois Le Faucheur IMAP
> Cc: mpls@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [mpls] "Traffic Management" (was Re: Poll on 
> renaming of EXP field)
> Importance: High
> 
> WG Chair hat on:
> 
> I think it is important to signal the change by changing the 
> name.  Just
> clarifying the meaning of Experimental may result in a 
> document that does
> not get read.  Further, there is no registry for the EXP bit 
> usage and that
> usage can vary between LSPs running within the same network.  
> So comparing
> this to anything that has a registry and a process of IETF 
> consensus does
> not apply well here.
> 
> I'm also believe that when this is published as an RFC it 
> will say that it
> updates the appropriate RFCs.  Loa, please correct me if I am wrong.
> 
> WG Chair hat off:
> 
> One of the problems here is that every term used in this 
> general space is
> already over-loaded.  Further the emphasis implied by a 
> particular term
> varies with context (and consequently with the reader's 
> background).  For
> instance the term Traffic Management has very strong 
> connotations for those
> involved in the ATM Forum.
> 
> My personal view is that the term CoS is good enough.  But I 
> do believe that
> type of service (ToS) would have been an improvement.  It's 
> not that I think
> "type" is a better term than "class", it is that this would 
> make it the same
> as the IPv4 header.  The ToS field in the IP header now 
> encompasses both the
> DS codepoint and the ECN codepoint.  These are precisely the 
> functions that
> we are now trying to squeeze into three bits of the MPLS 
> Label Stack Entry.
> 
> I would argue strongly for this change were it not that in 
> IPv6 the same
> function is carried in a field called Traffic Class.
> 
> So CoS takes a little from each of v4 and v6.  Good enough.
> 
> ...George
> 
> 
> On 8/19/08 1:53 PM, "Eric Gray" <eric.gray@ericsson.com> wrote:
> 
> > Francois,
> > 
> > If I didn't care about the potential for extra work (and
> > possibly confusion as well), I would think "Traffic Management"
> > a better (because more generic) field name than "CoS" - but it
> > is still a change that may have far reaching consequences, and
> > which is better handled by a better explanation of the meaning
> > of the field than by any effort to come up with a better name
> > for it.
> > 
> > However, even the field-name "Traffic Management" may
> > not be generic enough.
> > 
> > At present, we seem to be agreed that currently defined
> > legitimate uses for the field are all related (at least in a
> > stretch) to something to do with how frames are expected to be
> > handled in forwarding.  But - given a precedent established in
> > RFC 3270 (which, among other things, emphasizes that meaning or
> > semantics of the field depends on a common understanding of why
> > an LSP was established) - it is actually clear that the field
> > might mean other things as well.  For example, the field might
> > - in some future context - be used to indicate error handling
> > for packets that will be dropped, or macro statistics buckets
> > that individual packets belong to (unrelated to other handling
> > of a packet so marked).
> > 
> > In fact, we're re-hashing many of the same arguments that
> > led to the field's being named as it was.
> > 
> > So, the issue is all about what constitutes a "legitimate
> > use" - which I would argue is defined by IETF consensus, and is
> > an issue better handled by good explanation than by renaming.
> > 
> > --
> > Eric Gray
> > Principal Engineer
> > Ericsson  
> > 
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On
> >> Behalf Of Francois Le Faucheur IMAP
> >> Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2008 12:42 PM
> >> To: George Swallow
> >> Cc: mpls@ietf.org; Francois Le Faucheur IMAP
> >> Subject: [mpls] "Traffic Management" (was Re: Poll on
> >> renaming of EXP field)
> >> 
> >> Hi,
> >> 
> >> Someone earlier suggested "Traffic Management". While it can most
> >> certainly be argued this would not be a perfect name either
> >> (or other  
> >> names would be closer to "perfection"), is there a good
> >> argument I am  
> >> missing for why "COS" is obviously better (or more "good enough")
> >> than "Traffic Management"? (considering we want to capture both
> >> Diffserv and ECN/PCN use of EXP field)
> >> 
> >> Thanks
> >> 
> >> Francois
> >> 
> >> 
> >> On 18 Aug 2008, at 22:23, George Swallow wrote:
> >> 
> >>> During the last call on "EXP field" renamed to  "CoS Field"
> >>> draft-ietf-mpls-cosfield-def-04.txt, there were comments on
> >>> alternatives to the name COS.
> >>> 
> >>> This message initiates a two week poll on whether the name COS
> >>> is good enough, or if some other name is needed.  The poll closes
> >>> 23:59 Sept 1 GMT.
> >>> 
> >>> Please answer with a simple yes or no.  You may send any
> >> additional  
> >>> comment
> >>> in a separate message (with a different subject line).
> >>> 
> >>> ...George
> >>> 
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> mpls mailing list
> >>> mpls@ietf.org
> >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
> >> 
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> mpls mailing list
> >> mpls@ietf.org
> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
> >> 
> 
> 
_______________________________________________
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	<C4D09365.568F%swallow@cisco.com>
From: "Eric Gray" <eric.gray@ericsson.com>
To: "George Swallow" <swallow@cisco.com>,
	"Francois Le Faucheur IMAP" <flefauch@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [mpls] "Traffic Management" (was Re: Poll on renaming of EXP
	field)
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George,

	In response to your comment - with chair hat on - the
fact that there is no registry has not affected the way we
have proceeded (within the IETF) so far.  Every use of the
EXP bits that we currently consider "legitimate" is defined
in an RFC.

--
Eric Gray
Principal Engineer
Ericsson  

> -----Original Message-----
> From: George Swallow [mailto:swallow@cisco.com] 
> Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2008 3:13 PM
> To: Eric Gray; Francois Le Faucheur IMAP
> Cc: mpls@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [mpls] "Traffic Management" (was Re: Poll on 
> renaming of EXP field)
> Importance: High
> 
> WG Chair hat on:
> 
> I think it is important to signal the change by changing the 
> name.  Just
> clarifying the meaning of Experimental may result in a 
> document that does
> not get read.  Further, there is no registry for the EXP bit 
> usage and that
> usage can vary between LSPs running within the same network.  
> So comparing
> this to anything that has a registry and a process of IETF 
> consensus does
> not apply well here.
> 
> I'm also believe that when this is published as an RFC it 
> will say that it
> updates the appropriate RFCs.  Loa, please correct me if I am wrong.
> 
> WG Chair hat off:
> 
> One of the problems here is that every term used in this 
> general space is
> already over-loaded.  Further the emphasis implied by a 
> particular term
> varies with context (and consequently with the reader's 
> background).  For
> instance the term Traffic Management has very strong 
> connotations for those
> involved in the ATM Forum.
> 
> My personal view is that the term CoS is good enough.  But I 
> do believe that
> type of service (ToS) would have been an improvement.  It's 
> not that I think
> "type" is a better term than "class", it is that this would 
> make it the same
> as the IPv4 header.  The ToS field in the IP header now 
> encompasses both the
> DS codepoint and the ECN codepoint.  These are precisely the 
> functions that
> we are now trying to squeeze into three bits of the MPLS 
> Label Stack Entry.
> 
> I would argue strongly for this change were it not that in 
> IPv6 the same
> function is carried in a field called Traffic Class.
> 
> So CoS takes a little from each of v4 and v6.  Good enough.
> 
> ...George
> 
> 
> On 8/19/08 1:53 PM, "Eric Gray" <eric.gray@ericsson.com> wrote:
> 
> > Francois,
> > 
> > If I didn't care about the potential for extra work (and
> > possibly confusion as well), I would think "Traffic Management"
> > a better (because more generic) field name than "CoS" - but it
> > is still a change that may have far reaching consequences, and
> > which is better handled by a better explanation of the meaning
> > of the field than by any effort to come up with a better name
> > for it.
> > 
> > However, even the field-name "Traffic Management" may
> > not be generic enough.
> > 
> > At present, we seem to be agreed that currently defined
> > legitimate uses for the field are all related (at least in a
> > stretch) to something to do with how frames are expected to be
> > handled in forwarding.  But - given a precedent established in
> > RFC 3270 (which, among other things, emphasizes that meaning or
> > semantics of the field depends on a common understanding of why
> > an LSP was established) - it is actually clear that the field
> > might mean other things as well.  For example, the field might
> > - in some future context - be used to indicate error handling
> > for packets that will be dropped, or macro statistics buckets
> > that individual packets belong to (unrelated to other handling
> > of a packet so marked).
> > 
> > In fact, we're re-hashing many of the same arguments that
> > led to the field's being named as it was.
> > 
> > So, the issue is all about what constitutes a "legitimate
> > use" - which I would argue is defined by IETF consensus, and is
> > an issue better handled by good explanation than by renaming.
> > 
> > --
> > Eric Gray
> > Principal Engineer
> > Ericsson  
> > 
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On
> >> Behalf Of Francois Le Faucheur IMAP
> >> Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2008 12:42 PM
> >> To: George Swallow
> >> Cc: mpls@ietf.org; Francois Le Faucheur IMAP
> >> Subject: [mpls] "Traffic Management" (was Re: Poll on
> >> renaming of EXP field)
> >> 
> >> Hi,
> >> 
> >> Someone earlier suggested "Traffic Management". While it can most
> >> certainly be argued this would not be a perfect name either
> >> (or other  
> >> names would be closer to "perfection"), is there a good
> >> argument I am  
> >> missing for why "COS" is obviously better (or more "good enough")
> >> than "Traffic Management"? (considering we want to capture both
> >> Diffserv and ECN/PCN use of EXP field)
> >> 
> >> Thanks
> >> 
> >> Francois
> >> 
> >> 
> >> On 18 Aug 2008, at 22:23, George Swallow wrote:
> >> 
> >>> During the last call on "EXP field" renamed to  "CoS Field"
> >>> draft-ietf-mpls-cosfield-def-04.txt, there were comments on
> >>> alternatives to the name COS.
> >>> 
> >>> This message initiates a two week poll on whether the name COS
> >>> is good enough, or if some other name is needed.  The poll closes
> >>> 23:59 Sept 1 GMT.
> >>> 
> >>> Please answer with a simple yes or no.  You may send any
> >> additional  
> >>> comment
> >>> in a separate message (with a different subject line).
> >>> 
> >>> ...George
> >>> 
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> mpls mailing list
> >>> mpls@ietf.org
> >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
> >> 
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> mpls mailing list
> >> mpls@ietf.org
> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
> >> 
> 
> 
_______________________________________________
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No to "Cos"

Prefer to "TM"

--------------------------------------------------
From: "George Swallow" <swallow@cisco.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2008 4:23 AM
To: <mpls@ietf.org>
Subject: [mpls] Poll on renaming of EXP field

> During the last call on "EXP field" renamed to  "CoS Field"
> draft-ietf-mpls-cosfield-def-04.txt, there were comments on
> alternatives to the name COS.
>
> This message initiates a two week poll on whether the name COS
> is good enough, or if some other name is needed.  The poll closes
> 23:59 Sept 1 GMT.
>
> Please answer with a simple yes or no.  You may send any additional 
> comment
> in a separate message (with a different subject line).
>
> ...George
>
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls 


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No
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No

> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "George Swallow" <swallow@cisco.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2008 4:23 AM
> To: <mpls@ietf.org>
> Subject: [mpls] Poll on renaming of EXP field
> 
> > During the last call on "EXP field" renamed to  "CoS Field"
> > draft-ietf-mpls-cosfield-def-04.txt, there were comments on
> > alternatives to the name COS.
> >
> > This message initiates a two week poll on whether the name COS
> > is good enough, or if some other name is needed.  The poll closes
> > 23:59 Sept 1 GMT.
> >
> > Please answer with a simple yes or no.  You may send any additional
> > comment
> > in a separate message (with a different subject line).
> >
> > ...George
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > mpls mailing list
> > mpls@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls

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Yes

Tom Petch

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "George Swallow" <swallow@cisco.com>
To: <mpls@ietf.org>
Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 10:23 PM
Subject: [mpls] Poll on renaming of EXP field


> During the last call on "EXP field" renamed to  "CoS Field"
> draft-ietf-mpls-cosfield-def-04.txt, there were comments on
> alternatives to the name COS.
> 
> This message initiates a two week poll on whether the name COS
> is good enough, or if some other name is needed.  The poll closes
> 23:59 Sept 1 GMT. 
> 
> Please answer with a simple yes or no.  You may send any additional comment
> in a separate message (with a different subject line).
> 
> ...George
> 
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
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Cc: mpls@ietf.org, Francois Le Faucheur IMAP <flefauch@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: [mpls] "Traffic Management" (was Re: Poll on renaming of EXP
	field)
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Hi Eric,

On 19 Aug 2008, at 19:53, Eric Gray wrote:

> Francois,
>
> 	If I didn't care about the potential for extra work (and
> possibly confusion as well), I would think "Traffic Management"
> a better (because more generic) field name than "CoS" - but it
> is still a change that may have far reaching consequences, and
> which is better handled by a better explanation of the meaning
> of the field than by any effort to come up with a better name
> for it.

I'm assuming that the document updating the field name would also  
provide such explanation (ie it can be used for Diffserv as per  
RFC3270, it can be used for ECN/PCN as per xxx, it may be used in the  
future for other things that are to be defined in future RFCs...).
So those explanation would be there anyways. And I agree with  
George's point that a name change will help draw attention.

>
> 	However, even the field-name "Traffic Management" may
> not be generic enough.

As I said, I doubt we'll come up with a perfect name that is precise  
enough to be useful and yet can capture all the yet to be defined use  
for the field. A name that captures currently understood use and is  
somewhat generic in order to cope with other applications seems like  
a reasonable compromise.


>
> 	At present, we seem to be agreed that currently defined
> legitimate uses for the field are all related (at least in a
> stretch) to something to do with how frames are expected to be
> handled in forwarding.  But - given a precedent established in
> RFC 3270 (which, among other things, emphasizes that meaning or
> semantics of the field depends on a common understanding of why
> an LSP was established) - it is actually clear that the field
> might mean other things as well.  For example, the field might
> - in some future context - be used to indicate error handling
> for packets that will be dropped, or macro statistics buckets
> that individual packets belong to (unrelated to other handling
> of a packet so marked).
>
> 	In fact, we're re-hashing many of the same arguments that
> led to the field's being named as it was.
>
> 	So, the issue is all about what constitutes a "legitimate
> use" - which I would argue is defined by IETF consensus, and is
> an issue better handled by good explanation than by renaming.

I think there is agreement that the actual uses for the field have to  
be defined by IETF consensus.
To me this precisely argues for changing the name of the field as it  
is clearly not used for experimental purposes in these cases.

Francois


>
> --
> Eric Gray
> Principal Engineer
> Ericsson
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On
>> Behalf Of Francois Le Faucheur IMAP
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2008 12:42 PM
>> To: George Swallow
>> Cc: mpls@ietf.org; Francois Le Faucheur IMAP
>> Subject: [mpls] "Traffic Management" (was Re: Poll on
>> renaming of EXP field)
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Someone earlier suggested "Traffic Management". While it can most
>> certainly be argued this would not be a perfect name either
>> (or other
>> names would be closer to "perfection"), is there a good
>> argument I am
>> missing for why "COS" is obviously better (or more "good enough")
>> than "Traffic Management"? (considering we want to capture both
>> Diffserv and ECN/PCN use of EXP field)
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Francois
>>
>>
>> On 18 Aug 2008, at 22:23, George Swallow wrote:
>>
>>> During the last call on "EXP field" renamed to  "CoS Field"
>>> draft-ietf-mpls-cosfield-def-04.txt, there were comments on
>>> alternatives to the name COS.
>>>
>>> This message initiates a two week poll on whether the name COS
>>> is good enough, or if some other name is needed.  The poll closes
>>> 23:59 Sept 1 GMT.
>>>
>>> Please answer with a simple yes or no.  You may send any
>> additional
>>> comment
>>> in a separate message (with a different subject line).
>>>
>>> ...George
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> mpls mailing list
>>> mpls@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> mpls mailing list
>> mpls@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>>

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Cc: mpls@ietf.org, Francois Le Faucheur IMAP <flefauch@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: [mpls] "Traffic Management" (was Re: Poll on renaming of EXP
	field)
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Hi George,

>
>
> WG Chair hat off:
>
> One of the problems here is that every term used in this general  
> space is
> already over-loaded.  Further the emphasis implied by a particular  
> term
> varies with context (and consequently with the reader's  
> background).  For
> instance the term Traffic Management has very strong connotations  
> for those
> involved in the ATM Forum.

ATM Traffic Management had to do with things like supporting  
different classes of traffic and providing congestion notification.  
That does not seem to be such a bad connotation.

Francois
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<html><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">
Hi George,<div><br><div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
color=3D"#000000"><br></font><br></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">WG Chair hat =
off:</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">One of the problems here is that every term used in =
this general space is</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">already over-loaded.<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </span>Further the emphasis implied =
by a particular term</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">varies with context (and =
consequently with the reader's background).<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </span>For</div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">instance the term Traffic Management has very strong =
connotations for those</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">involved in the ATM =
Forum.</div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>ATM Traffic Management had =
to do with things like supporting different classes of traffic and =
providing congestion notification. That does not seem to be such a bad =
connotation.</div><div><br></div><div>Francois</div></div></div></body></h=
tml>=

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From: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com>
To: George Swallow <swallow@cisco.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 11:31:37 +0300
Thread-Topic: Poll on renaming of EXP field
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Subject: Re: [mpls] Poll on renaming of EXP field
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No.

regards,
        Sasha

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On
> Behalf Of George Swallow
> Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 11:24 PM
> To: mpls@ietf.org
> Subject: [mpls] Poll on renaming of EXP field
>
> During the last call on "EXP field" renamed to  "CoS Field"
> draft-ietf-mpls-cosfield-def-04.txt, there were comments on
> alternatives to the name COS.
>
> This message initiates a two week poll on whether the name COS
> is good enough, or if some other name is needed.  The poll closes
> 23:59 Sept 1 GMT.
>
> Please answer with a simple yes or no.  You may send any
> additional comment
> in a separate message (with a different subject line).
>
> ...George
>
> _______________________________________________
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> mpls@ietf.org
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>
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From mpls-bounces@ietf.org  Wed Aug 20 01:47:21 2008
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From: Alexander Vainshtein <Alexander.Vainshtein@ecitele.com>
To: Francois Le Faucheur IMAP <flefauch@cisco.com>, George Swallow
	<swallow@cisco.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 11:47:02 +0300
Thread-Topic: [mpls] "Traffic Management" (was Re: Poll on renaming of EXP
	field)
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Subject: Re: [mpls] "Traffic Management" (was Re: Poll on renaming of EXP
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Hi all,

My "No" response to the poll question stems from the fact that IMHO the name "CoS"
does not reflect at least one of the already approved usages of the EXP field,
namely their usage for ECN (see RFC 5129).

Incidentally, RFC 5129 is not mentioned in the long list of RFCs
that would be updated by draft-ietf-mpls-cosfield-def-nn.

The name "Traffic Management" (TM) sounds more suitable to me.

But I doubt that changing a name really helps to resolve any problems (Shakespeare has already
been quoted in this thread) including the problem of recognition of certain standard bodies
as design authorities for specific technologies by the other standard bodies
(actually, the problem is *non-recognition*).

My 2c.
        Sasha


> -----Original Message-----
> From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On
> Behalf Of Francois Le Faucheur IMAP
> Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2008 7:42 PM
> To: George Swallow
> Cc: mpls@ietf.org; Francois Le Faucheur IMAP
> Subject: [mpls] "Traffic Management" (was Re: Poll on
> renaming of EXP field)
>
> Hi,
>
> Someone earlier suggested "Traffic Management". While it can most
> certainly be argued this would not be a perfect name either (or other
> names would be closer to "perfection"), is there a good argument I am
> missing for why "COS" is obviously better (or more "good enough")
> than "Traffic Management"? (considering we want to capture both
> Diffserv and ECN/PCN use of EXP field)
>
> Thanks
>
> Francois
>
>
> On 18 Aug 2008, at 22:23, George Swallow wrote:
>
> > During the last call on "EXP field" renamed to  "CoS Field"
> > draft-ietf-mpls-cosfield-def-04.txt, there were comments on
> > alternatives to the name COS.
> >
> > This message initiates a two week poll on whether the name COS
> > is good enough, or if some other name is needed.  The poll closes
> > 23:59 Sept 1 GMT.
> >
> > Please answer with a simple yes or no.  You may send any additional
> > comment
> > in a separate message (with a different subject line).
> >
> > ...George
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > mpls mailing list
> > mpls@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>
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No,

Regards
Daniele

George Swallow wrote:
> During the last call on "EXP field" renamed to  "CoS Field"
> draft-ietf-mpls-cosfield-def-04.txt, there were comments on
> alternatives to the name COS.
>
> This message initiates a two week poll on whether the name COS
> is good enough, or if some other name is needed.  The poll closes
> 23:59 Sept 1 GMT.
>
> Please answer with a simple yes or no.  You may send any additional
comment
> in a separate message (with a different subject line).
>
> ...George
>
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>
>  
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Subject: [mpls] Discuss of EXP field
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Hi,

I'm finally tempted out of my cave to join in this cycle-burning 
extravaganza.

I just want to point out that marking a new RFC as "Updates" a whole series 
of other RFCs has only limited effect on how those other RFCs are read.

Thus, *if* the reader collects the older RFC from the RFC repository 
(http://www.ietf.org/iesg/1rfc_index.txt) or from the MPLS charter page 
(http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/mpls-charter.html) they will see a note 
saying something like "updated by RFC wxyz". The wise reader will get a copy 
of that newer RFC to find out what the update is.

But most RFC reading comes direct. I need to know about LDP; I get RFC 5036 
and read it. And the RFC itself carries no indication that it has been 
updated.

The effect of this in our particular case is that changing the name of a 
field in a new RFC will have only limited affect on how people perceive the 
name of that field.
- they will continue to read the old RFCs
- they will continue to read the many books that are out there
- they might not even read the new RFC as it seems
   uninteresting from its title.

We could use the RFC eratum system, but frankly, hardly anyone ever looks at 
that.

A slightly more sure way to drive the message home would be to respin all of 
the updated RFCs with the correct (new) naming of the bits. This is what 
most publishing organisations would do.

Of course, we only mark the old RFCs as obsoleted in exactly the same way as 
we mark them as updated. This means that they are still around and still 
easy to pick up and read (witness the recent email on the list about RFC 
3036).

So...

All this effort and what effect?


There now. I, too, have wasted my time on this thread.

Adrian


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Thread-Topic: [mpls] Discuss of EXP field
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Subject: Re: [mpls] Discuss of EXP field
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Adrian (and all),
A brief comment (supporting your view) inline below...

Regards,
        Sasha

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On
> Behalf Of Adrian Farrel
> Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 1:14 PM
> To: mpls@ietf.org
> Subject: [mpls] Discuss of EXP field
>
> Hi,
>
> I'm finally tempted out of my cave to join in this cycle-burning
> extravaganza.
>
> I just want to point out that marking a new RFC as "Updates"
> a whole series
> of other RFCs has only limited effect on how those other RFCs
> are read.
>
> Thus, *if* the reader collects the older RFC from the RFC repository
> (http://www.ietf.org/iesg/1rfc_index.txt) or from the MPLS
> charter page
> (http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/mpls-charter.html) they
> will see a note
> saying something like "updated by RFC wxyz". The wise reader
> will get a copy
> of that newer RFC to find out what the update is.
>
> But most RFC reading comes direct. I need to know about LDP;
> I get RFC 5036
> and read it. And the RFC itself carries no indication that it has been
> updated.
>
> The effect of this in our particular case is that changing
> the name of a
> field in a new RFC will have only limited affect on how
> people perceive the
> name of that field.
> - they will continue to read the old RFCs
> - they will continue to read the many books that are out there
>
[Sasha] Not to mention tons of technical documents that are freely available
as Web pages these days AND code source files that refer to the EXP field by its obsolete name...
And not to mention output of numerous network analyzers (even if this has the best chance of eventually
being updated).
>
> - they might not even read the new RFC as it seems uninteresting from its title.
>
> We could use the RFC erratum system, but frankly, hardly anyone ever looks at that.
>
> A slightly more sure way to drive the message home would be to respin all of
> the updated RFCs with the correct (new) naming of the bits.
> This is what most publishing organisations would do.
>
> Of course, we only mark the old RFCs as obsoleted in exactly the same way as
> we mark them as updated. This means that they are still around and still
> easy to pick up and read (witness the recent email on the list about RFC
> 3036).
>
> So...
>
> All this effort and what effect?
>
>
> There now. I, too, have wasted my time on this thread.
>
> Adrian
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>
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From: "Eric Gray" <eric.gray@ericsson.com>
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	"George Swallow" <swallow@cisco.com>
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Francois and George,

	One - highly undesirable - effect of changing the name, is
that it re-informces the apparently common misunderstanding of 
what we typically mean by "experimental" in the IETF.

	I guess there are enough examples in Experimental RFCs 
where we've given people reason to believe that it may be "safe"
to use any values, semantics, what-have-you in connection with
IETF expeimental fields, in any context you care to suggest.  I 
don't think this is generalizable, and this is (IMO) a good 
example of why not.

	My understanding of the IETF's use of "experimental" values
is to allow people to reliably conduct experiments in their own
laboratory networks.  I've never had the impression that any of
the experimental values we've defined - ever - in the IETF were
effectively the same as first-come-first-serve values to be used
on the public network (only without the benefit of an arbitrator
- like IANA - to determine who is in fact "first-come").

	We thought this was well understood, and - apparently - we
thought wrong.  What is really needed is to fix the hole in the
way the IETF use of "experimental" is documented.  Instead, we
want to dodge the bullet - this time - and leave it to be fixed
by someone else in the future.

	I have an idea: let's publish an RFC with the catchy new
title of "Use of Experimental Fields Considered Dangerous" - NOT.

	:-)

--
Eric Gray
Principal Engineer
Ericsson  

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Francois Le Faucheur IMAP [mailto:flefauch@cisco.com] 
> Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 4:24 AM
> To: Eric Gray
> Cc: Francois Le Faucheur IMAP; George Swallow; mpls@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [mpls] "Traffic Management" (was Re: Poll on 
> renaming of EXP field)
> Importance: High
> 
> Hi Eric,
> 
> On 19 Aug 2008, at 19:53, Eric Gray wrote:
> 
> > Francois,
> >
> > 	If I didn't care about the potential for extra work (and
> > possibly confusion as well), I would think "Traffic Management"
> > a better (because more generic) field name than "CoS" - but it
> > is still a change that may have far reaching consequences, and
> > which is better handled by a better explanation of the meaning
> > of the field than by any effort to come up with a better name
> > for it.
> 
> I'm assuming that the document updating the field name would also  
> provide such explanation (ie it can be used for Diffserv as per  
> RFC3270, it can be used for ECN/PCN as per xxx, it may be 
> used in the  
> future for other things that are to be defined in future RFCs...).
> So those explanation would be there anyways. And I agree with  
> George's point that a name change will help draw attention.
> 
> >
> > 	However, even the field-name "Traffic Management" may
> > not be generic enough.
> 
> As I said, I doubt we'll come up with a perfect name that is precise  
> enough to be useful and yet can capture all the yet to be 
> defined use  
> for the field. A name that captures currently understood use and is  
> somewhat generic in order to cope with other applications seems like  
> a reasonable compromise.
> 
> 
> >
> > 	At present, we seem to be agreed that currently defined
> > legitimate uses for the field are all related (at least in a
> > stretch) to something to do with how frames are expected to be
> > handled in forwarding.  But - given a precedent established in
> > RFC 3270 (which, among other things, emphasizes that meaning or
> > semantics of the field depends on a common understanding of why
> > an LSP was established) - it is actually clear that the field
> > might mean other things as well.  For example, the field might
> > - in some future context - be used to indicate error handling
> > for packets that will be dropped, or macro statistics buckets
> > that individual packets belong to (unrelated to other handling
> > of a packet so marked).
> >
> > 	In fact, we're re-hashing many of the same arguments that
> > led to the field's being named as it was.
> >
> > 	So, the issue is all about what constitutes a "legitimate
> > use" - which I would argue is defined by IETF consensus, and is
> > an issue better handled by good explanation than by renaming.
> 
> I think there is agreement that the actual uses for the field 
> have to  
> be defined by IETF consensus.
> To me this precisely argues for changing the name of the field as it  
> is clearly not used for experimental purposes in these cases.
> 
> Francois
> 
> 
> >
> > --
> > Eric Gray
> > Principal Engineer
> > Ericsson
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On
> >> Behalf Of Francois Le Faucheur IMAP
> >> Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2008 12:42 PM
> >> To: George Swallow
> >> Cc: mpls@ietf.org; Francois Le Faucheur IMAP
> >> Subject: [mpls] "Traffic Management" (was Re: Poll on
> >> renaming of EXP field)
> >>
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> Someone earlier suggested "Traffic Management". While it can most
> >> certainly be argued this would not be a perfect name either
> >> (or other
> >> names would be closer to "perfection"), is there a good
> >> argument I am
> >> missing for why "COS" is obviously better (or more "good enough")
> >> than "Traffic Management"? (considering we want to capture both
> >> Diffserv and ECN/PCN use of EXP field)
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >>
> >> Francois
> >>
> >>
> >> On 18 Aug 2008, at 22:23, George Swallow wrote:
> >>
> >>> During the last call on "EXP field" renamed to  "CoS Field"
> >>> draft-ietf-mpls-cosfield-def-04.txt, there were comments on
> >>> alternatives to the name COS.
> >>>
> >>> This message initiates a two week poll on whether the name COS
> >>> is good enough, or if some other name is needed.  The poll closes
> >>> 23:59 Sept 1 GMT.
> >>>
> >>> Please answer with a simple yes or no.  You may send any
> >> additional
> >>> comment
> >>> in a separate message (with a different subject line).
> >>>
> >>> ...George
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> mpls mailing list
> >>> mpls@ietf.org
> >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> mpls mailing list
> >> mpls@ietf.org
> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
> >>
> 
> 
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No.

-----Original Message-----
From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
George Swallow
Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 4:24 PM
To: mpls@ietf.org
Subject: [mpls] Poll on renaming of EXP field

During the last call on "EXP field" renamed to  "CoS Field"
draft-ietf-mpls-cosfield-def-04.txt, there were comments on alternatives
to the name COS.

This message initiates a two week poll on whether the name COS is good
enough, or if some other name is needed.  The poll closes
23:59 Sept 1 GMT. 

Please answer with a simple yes or no.  You may send any additional
comment in a separate message (with a different subject line).

...George

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No 

-----Original Message-----
From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
Howard Green
Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2008 2:37 PM
To: mpls@ietf.org
Subject: [mpls] FW: Poll on renaming of EXP field

No

George Swallow wrote:
> During the last call on "EXP field" renamed to  "CoS Field"
> draft-ietf-mpls-cosfield-def-04.txt, there were comments on 
> alternatives to the name COS.
>
> This message initiates a two week poll on whether the name COS is good

> enough, or if some other name is needed.  The poll closes
> 23:59 Sept 1 GMT.
>
> Please answer with a simple yes or no.  You may send any additional 
> comment in a separate message (with a different subject line).
>
> ...George
>
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>
>  
_______________________________________________
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Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 09:07:14 +0530
From: saquib khan <saquibk@huawei.com>
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Subject: Re: [mpls] Poll on renaming of EXP field
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NO

 

 
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***********

 

This e-mail and attachments contain confidential information from HUAWEI,
which is intended only for the person or entity whose address is listed
above. Any use of the information contained herein in any way (including,
but not limited to, total or partial disclosure, reproduction, or
dissemination) by persons other than the intended recipient's) is
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-----Original Message-----
From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
George Swallow
Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2008 1:54 AM
To: mpls@ietf.org
Subject: [mpls] Poll on renaming of EXP field

 

During the last call on "EXP field" renamed to  "CoS Field"

draft-ietf-mpls-cosfield-def-04.txt, there were comments on

alternatives to the name COS.

 

This message initiates a two week poll on whether the name COS

is good enough, or if some other name is needed.  The poll closes

23:59 Sept 1 GMT. 

 

Please answer with a simple yes or no.  You may send any additional comment

in a separate message (with a different subject line).

 

...George

 

_______________________________________________

mpls mailing list

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@list l1:level8
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@list l1:level9
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@list l2
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@list l3:level7
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@list l3:level8
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@list l3:level9
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@list l4
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@list l5
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@list l6
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@list l6:level8
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@list l6:level9
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@list l7
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@list l7:level2
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@list l7:level6
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@list l7:level7
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@list l7:level8
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@list l7:level9
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@list l8
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@list l8:level2
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@list l8:level3
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@list l8:level5
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<p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:21.0pt'><font size=5 face="Courier New"><span
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<p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:21.0pt'><font size=5 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:16.0pt;line-height:150%'>*******************************************************************************************************************************************************************<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:21.0pt'><font size=5 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:16.0pt;line-height:150%'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

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style='font-size:16.0pt;line-height:150%'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:21.0pt'><font size=5 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:16.0pt;line-height:150%'>*******************************************************************************************************************************************************************<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:21.0pt'><font size=5 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:16.0pt;line-height:150%'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:21.0pt'><font size=5 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:16.0pt;line-height:150%'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:21.0pt'><font size=5 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:16.0pt;line-height:150%'>-----Original Message-----<br>
From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of George
Swallow<br>
Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2008 1:54 AM<br>
To: mpls@ietf.org<br>
Subject: [mpls] Poll on renaming of EXP field</span></font></p>

<p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:21.0pt'><font size=5 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:16.0pt;line-height:150%'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:21.0pt'><font size=5 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:16.0pt;line-height:150%'>During the last call on &quot;EXP
field&quot; renamed to&nbsp; &quot;CoS Field&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:21.0pt'><font size=5 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:16.0pt;line-height:150%'>draft-ietf-mpls-cosfield-def-04.txt,
there were comments on<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:21.0pt'><font size=5 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:16.0pt;line-height:150%'>alternatives to the name COS.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:21.0pt'><font size=5 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:16.0pt;line-height:150%'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:21.0pt'><font size=5 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:16.0pt;line-height:150%'>This message initiates a two week
poll on whether the name COS<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:21.0pt'><font size=5 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:16.0pt;line-height:150%'>is good enough, or if some other name
is needed.&nbsp; The poll closes<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:21.0pt'><font size=5 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:16.0pt;line-height:150%'>23:59 Sept 1 GMT. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:21.0pt'><font size=5 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:16.0pt;line-height:150%'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:21.0pt'><font size=5 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:16.0pt;line-height:150%'>Please answer with a simple yes or
no.&nbsp; You may send any additional comment<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:21.0pt'><font size=5 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:16.0pt;line-height:150%'>in a separate message (with a
different subject line).<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:21.0pt'><font size=5 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:16.0pt;line-height:150%'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:21.0pt'><font size=5 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:16.0pt;line-height:150%'>...George<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:21.0pt'><font size=5 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:16.0pt;line-height:150%'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:21.0pt'><font size=5 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:16.0pt;line-height:150%'>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:21.0pt'><font size=5 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:16.0pt;line-height:150%'>mpls mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:21.0pt'><font size=5 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:16.0pt;line-height:150%'>mpls@ietf.org<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:21.0pt'><font size=5 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:16.0pt;line-height:150%'>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

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No.

BR
Annamaria

On 18 Aug 2008, at 22:23, George Swallow wrote:

> During the last call on "EXP field" renamed to  "CoS Field"
> draft-ietf-mpls-cosfield-def-04.txt, there were comments on 
> alternatives to the name COS.
>
> This message initiates a two week poll on whether the name COS is good

> enough, or if some other name is needed.  The poll closes
> 23:59 Sept 1 GMT.
>
> Please answer with a simple yes or no.  You may send any additional 
> comment in a separate message (with a different subject line).
>
> ...George
>
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From: "Zafar Ali (zali)" <zali@cisco.com>
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Yes-  

Thanks

Regards... Zafar 

>  ________________________________________
> Jordan Britnell
>  IP Technology Research
>  BCE/Bell Canada
>  (416) 215-3729
> jordan.britnell@bell.ca
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On 
> Behalf Of Cao Wei
> Sent: August 18, 2008 9:33 PM
> To: George Swallow; mpls@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [mpls] Poll on renaming of EXP field
> 
> Yes,
> 
> Wei Cao
> On 2008-08-19, at 04:23:38 George Swallow wrote:
> 
> >During the last call on "EXP field" renamed to  "CoS Field"
> >draft-ietf-mpls-cosfield-def-04.txt, there were comments on 
> >alternatives to the name COS.
> >
> >This message initiates a two week poll on whether the name 
> COS is good 
> >enough, or if some other name is needed.  The poll closes
> >23:59 Sept 1 GMT.
> >
> >Please answer with a simple yes or no.  You may send any additional 
> >comment in a separate message (with a different subject line).
> >
> >...George
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >mpls mailing list
> >mpls@ietf.org
> >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
> 
> 
> Best regards,
> Cao Wei
> 
> _______________________________________________
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No.

Regards,
Andrew,


> -----Original Message-----
> From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On
> Behalf Of George Swallow
> Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 11:24 PM
> To: mpls@ietf.org
> Subject: [mpls] Poll on renaming of EXP field
>
> During the last call on "EXP field" renamed to  "CoS Field"
> draft-ietf-mpls-cosfield-def-04.txt, there were comments on
> alternatives to the name COS.
>
> This message initiates a two week poll on whether the name COS
> is good enough, or if some other name is needed.  The poll closes
> 23:59 Sept 1 GMT.
>
> Please answer with a simple yes or no.  You may send any
> additional comment
> in a separate message (with a different subject line).
>
> ...George
>
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>
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> > During the last call on "EXP field" renamed to  "CoS Field"
> > draft-ietf-mpls-cosfield-def-04.txt, there were comments on
> > alternatives to the name COS.
> >
> > This message initiates a two week poll on whether the name COS
> > is good enough, or if some other name is needed.  The poll closes
> > 23:59 Sept 1 GMT.
> >
> > Please answer with a simple yes or no.  You may send any
> > additional comment
> > in a separate message (with a different subject line).

No.

/Michael

-- =

Michael Lyngb=F8l -- michael at lyngbol dot dk
Network Architect, AS3292 TDC, IP=B7backbone
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Yes.

Ben


On 18/08/2008 21:23, "George Swallow" <swallow@cisco.com> wrote:

> During the last call on "EXP field" renamed to  "CoS Field"
> draft-ietf-mpls-cosfield-def-04.txt, there were comments on
> alternatives to the name COS.
> 
> This message initiates a two week poll on whether the name COS
> is good enough, or if some other name is needed.  The poll closes
> 23:59 Sept 1 GMT.
> 
> Please answer with a simple yes or no.  You may send any additional comment
> in a separate message (with a different subject line).
> 
> ...George
> 
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls

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Subject: Re: [mpls] Poll on renaming of EXP field
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No.

On Mon, Aug 18, 2008 at 4:23 PM, George Swallow <swallow@cisco.com> wrote:
> During the last call on "EXP field" renamed to  "CoS Field"
> draft-ietf-mpls-cosfield-def-04.txt, there were comments on
> alternatives to the name COS.
>
> This message initiates a two week poll on whether the name COS
> is good enough, or if some other name is needed.  The poll closes
> 23:59 Sept 1 GMT.
>
> Please answer with a simple yes or no.  You may send any additional comment
> in a separate message (with a different subject line).
>
> ...George
>
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>
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NO

Cagatay




On 18/08/2008 21:23, "George Swallow" <swallow@cisco.com> wrote:

> During the last call on "EXP field" renamed to  "CoS Field"
> draft-ietf-mpls-cosfield-def-04.txt, there were comments on 
> alternatives to the name COS.
> 
> This message initiates a two week poll on whether the name COS is good 
> enough, or if some other name is needed.  The poll closes
> 23:59 Sept 1 GMT.
> 
> Please answer with a simple yes or no.  You may send any additional 
> comment in a separate message (with a different subject line).
> 
> ...George
> 
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls

_______________________________________________
mpls mailing list
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From: "Don Fedyk" <dwfedyk@nortel.com>
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No

Don  

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On 
> Behalf Of George Swallow
> Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 4:24 PM
> To: mpls@ietf.org
> Subject: [mpls] Poll on renaming of EXP field
> 
> During the last call on "EXP field" renamed to  "CoS Field"
> draft-ietf-mpls-cosfield-def-04.txt, there were comments on
> alternatives to the name COS.
> 
> This message initiates a two week poll on whether the name COS
> is good enough, or if some other name is needed.  The poll closes
> 23:59 Sept 1 GMT. 
> 
> Please answer with a simple yes or no.  You may send any 
> additional comment
> in a separate message (with a different subject line).
> 
> ...George
> 
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
> 
_______________________________________________
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From mpls-bounces@ietf.org  Fri Aug 29 09:30:14 2008
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From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
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Subject: [mpls] Comments on ITU's Work Plan for Optical Transport Networks
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Hi,

We received a liaison back in February 
(https://datatracker.ietf.org/liaison/425/) asking for our comments on ITU-T 
Study Group 15's "Optical Transport Networks & Technologies Standardization 
Work Plan" (http://www.itu.int/ITU-T/studygroups/com15/otn/index.html)

Please let me know by Friday September 5th if you have any comments you 
would like us to make. If I don't receive anything, I will send a response 
to thank them for keeping us informed and asking them to share any future 
work plans with us.

Thanks,
Adrian 

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