From mach.chen@huawei.com Fri Mar 1 01:25:07 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B954621F84D9 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2013 01:25:07 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.274 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.274 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.325, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rs+NJvSxewYA for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2013 01:25:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BB8D21F8717 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2013 01:25:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml203-edg.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.5-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id AOY17462; Fri, 01 Mar 2013 09:25:02 +0000 (GMT) Received: from LHREML401-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.240) by lhreml203-edg.huawei.com (172.18.7.221) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.323.7; Fri, 1 Mar 2013 09:24:49 +0000 Received: from SZXEML409-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.82.67.136) by lhreml401-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.240) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.323.7; Fri, 1 Mar 2013 09:25:01 +0000 Received: from szxeml558-mbs.china.huawei.com ([169.254.8.84]) by szxeml409-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.82.67.136]) with mapi id 14.01.0323.007; Fri, 1 Mar 2013 17:24:57 +0800 From: Mach Chen To: Loa Andersson , "mpls@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [mpls] Working group last call on draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ip-pw-capability-03.txt Thread-Index: AQHOEQxTVo4200Ik60eLPGh4JT4grZiQl3SQ Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2013 09:24:56 +0000 Message-ID: References: <51278645.3050800@pi.nu> In-Reply-To: <51278645.3050800@pi.nu> Accept-Language: en-US, zh-CN Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.96.176] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Cc: "" , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ip-pw-capability@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] Working group last call on draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ip-pw-capability-03.txt X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2013 09:25:07 -0000 Hi, I have read the draft. I think the draft is well written and support to publish the draft. Best regards, Mach > -----Original Message----- > From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of L= oa > Andersson > Sent: Friday, February 22, 2013 10:53 PM > To: mpls@ietf.org > Cc: ; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; > draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ip-pw-capability@tools.ietf.org > Subject: [mpls] Working group last call on > draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ip-pw-capability-03.txt >=20 > Working Group, >=20 > this is to start a two week Working Group last call on > draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ip-pw-capability-03.txt. >=20 > Please send your comments to the mpls working group > mailing list (mpls@ietf.org). >=20 > Please send both technical comments, and if you are happy > with the document as is also indications of support. >=20 > There are no IPR claims against this draft. >=20 > Booth the co-authors have earlier stated that they are not aware > of any IPRs applicable to this draft. >=20 > If anyone else in the working group are aware of IPRs claims against > this draft, the time to disclose that is now. >=20 > This working group last call will end on March 8, 2013. >=20 > /Loa > for the wg co-chairs >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > -- >=20 >=20 > Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com > Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu > Huawei Technologies (consult) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 > _______________________________________________ > mpls mailing list > mpls@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls From venkat.mahalingams@gmail.com Sun Mar 3 17:40:55 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A21321F8846 for ; Sun, 3 Mar 2013 17:40:55 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7S00robGworb for ; Sun, 3 Mar 2013 17:40:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-oa0-f42.google.com (mail-oa0-f42.google.com [209.85.219.42]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6D7521F8825 for ; Sun, 3 Mar 2013 17:40:51 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-oa0-f42.google.com with SMTP id i18so8464339oag.15 for ; Sun, 03 Mar 2013 17:40:51 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=AnD4O/imA1ZpJf6Ct9cSUQS+OyGRMgS6e1lWphAqZnM=; b=SshubMe0GJaofOlZu100B76ByzqdNkW5IseBfqgEixnwj6c8Rmew8r4lBeJqk5PLOv kuTkYmzjiEfA0n3MLhPs/H8y9+pvZVMGLvExthSD85B9U2yYF2GWDYeBYTUFZDrGNaih p7v8GkjJApP5wWAs5NyutgaYvVpPJg6oOILQPJULjeKpwcEokmj23ZGUX30y760If5HD ArTt0Qe+aG72CuxcZEnMbzOINS//aizOiUZDpltNjc3Ibbyin5zHp5HvBdnmPw+j0wFE HCIyhELZBKkCqaAh26oBNAWEojHsX2NO4g2IQkm1m7RpiCvM6wI0nQMtdYV1XeLDamYR FLgA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.182.127.7 with SMTP id nc7mr14445365obb.94.1362361251141; Sun, 03 Mar 2013 17:40:51 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.76.150.161 with HTTP; Sun, 3 Mar 2013 17:40:50 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <32CB7A1F0806AB4688CE3F22C29DAC870493882B@EXRAD5.ad.rad.co.il> References: <32CB7A1F0806AB4688CE3F22C29DAC870493882B@EXRAD5.ad.rad.co.il> Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2013 17:40:50 -0800 Message-ID: From: Venkatesan Mahalingam To: Muly Ilan Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=14dae93b57406e1e7904d70f722f Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] Another comment to draft-ietf-mpls-tp-oam-id-mib-02 X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2013 01:40:55 -0000 --14dae93b57406e1e7904d70f722f Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sorry for the delayed response. Thanks for your valuable comments. We will consider your comments for next version. -Venkat. On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 at 8:03 AM, Muly Ilan wrote: > Hi,**** > > ** ** > > More than one proactive OAM session may be simultaneously activated over > the same MEP. For example, CC-CV and PM (loss measurement and/or delay > measurement).**** > > But in the mplsOamIdMeTable there=92s a pointer to only one session =96 > mplsOamIdMeProactiveOamSessIndex.**** > > ** ** > > Instead of mplsOamIdMeProactiveOamSessIndex I suggest to define a new > table that will list all the proactive OAM sessions per MEP.**** > > There are other alternatives but I think an additional table is the > straightforward solution.**** > > ** ** > > Regards,**** > > ** ** > > Muly**** > --14dae93b57406e1e7904d70f722f Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sorry for the delayed response. Thanks for your valuable comments.
We wi= ll consider your comments for next version.

-Venkat.

On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 at 8:03 AM, Muly Ilan <muly_i@rad.com= > wrote:

Hi,

=A0

More than one proactive OAM session may be simultane= ously activated over the same MEP. For example, CC-CV and PM (loss measurem= ent and/or delay measurement).

But in the mplsOamIdMeTable there=92s a pointer to o= nly one session =96 mplsOamIdMeProactiveOamSessIndex.

=A0

Instead of mplsOamIdMeProactiveOamSessIndex I sugges= t to define a new table that will list all the proactive OAM sessions per M= EP.

There are other alternatives but I think an addition= al table is the straightforward solution.

=A0

Regards,

=A0

Muly


--14dae93b57406e1e7904d70f722f-- From eosborne@cisco.com Mon Mar 4 08:36:01 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA79B21F8618; Mon, 4 Mar 2013 08:36:01 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sqyZlNfIpqVj; Mon, 4 Mar 2013 08:35:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from rcdn-iport-9.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-9.cisco.com [173.37.86.80]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 337BB21F8BEC; Mon, 4 Mar 2013 08:35:57 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=2197; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1362414957; x=1363624557; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=qF2cGaPnawyd1YLmrnTeNHt0Kl/B77zifn95Da05+CY=; b=Yc1AWxMSE+9hdZGLJupQstmE4yOcWNGyXcOL8MiCywDxHiOfj/1UYWu1 bjkFuKrJdmBxaKFVTa/H5OJNA1D8otZV7E6JDZ/zL3LfPNNduacC7jTfS tNt0BMUpUUGMKvUlEMXiomJkpqgPQ7feH8jPhrALVrRrZLgbrHAU7KkPy k=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgEFALHMNFGtJXHA/2dsb2JhbABCA8JNgQIWc4IfAQEBBG4LDAQCAQgRBAEBCx0HMhQJCAEBBAENBQiICwzFHwSNXIEAIQUGBQcGC4JOYQOINp58gwiBcjU X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.84,781,1355097600"; d="scan'208";a="180521314" Received: from rcdn-core2-5.cisco.com ([173.37.113.192]) by rcdn-iport-9.cisco.com with ESMTP; 04 Mar 2013 16:35:48 +0000 Received: from xhc-aln-x10.cisco.com (xhc-aln-x10.cisco.com [173.36.12.84]) by rcdn-core2-5.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r24GZmVV025511 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Mon, 4 Mar 2013 16:35:48 GMT Received: from xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com ([169.254.9.206]) by xhc-aln-x10.cisco.com ([173.36.12.84]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.004; Mon, 4 Mar 2013 10:35:48 -0600 From: "Eric Osborne (eosborne)" To: Scott Mansfield , "mpls@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Response to ITU-T MPLS Linear Protection Liaison Thread-Index: Ac4Vw1l+YOyCAncURha6Sf/PEDNXkQDMsLaw Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2013 16:35:47 +0000 Message-ID: <20ECF67871905846A80F77F8F4A27572100F36DF@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.98.66.71] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "ccamp@ietf.org" , "pwe3@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] Response to ITU-T MPLS Linear Protection Liaison X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2013 16:36:01 -0000 One correction. The draft reply says that points 3,7,8 are covered by an e= xisting draft. I'm not aware of a published draft that covers 3. I have d= raft-osborne-mpls-psc-updates for 7,8. I have something in the works for 3= but it didn't make the pre-Orlando deadline, and I'm not aware of other wo= rk in this area. eric > -----Original Message----- > From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > Scott Mansfield > Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2013 9:53 AM > To: mpls@ietf.org > Cc: ccamp@ietf.org; pwe3@ietf.org > Subject: [CCAMP] Response to ITU-T MPLS Linear Protection Liaison >=20 > MPLS Working Group, >=20 >=20 >=20 > A liaison has been received from ITU-T SG 15 on the topic of Linear prote= ction > switching. A draft response has been generated and is attached to this m= ail > (both word and pdf). Please direct all comments on the content of the li= aison > response to the MPLS working group mailing list. >=20 >=20 >=20 > Background information: >=20 >=20 >=20 > The liaison from SG15 can be found here =E0 > https://datatracker.ietf.org/documents/LIAISON/liaison-2013-02-05-itu-t-s= g-15- > mpls-recommendation-itu-t-g8131-revision-linear-protection-switching-for- > mpls-tp-networks-attachment-1.pdf > 15-mpls-recommendation-itu-t-g8131-revision-linear-protection-switching-f= or- > mpls-tp-networks-attachment-1.pdf> >=20 >=20 >=20 > History: >=20 > The above liaison is in response to this liaison from the MPLS WG =E0 > https://datatracker.ietf.org/liaison/1229/ > which was in response to th= e SG15 > liaison =E0 https://datatracker.ietf.org/liaison/1205/ > which responded to =E0 > https://datatracker.ietf.org/liaison/1174/ which responded to =E0 > https://datatracker.ietf.org/liaison/1162/ > >=20 >=20 >=20 > Regards, >=20 > -scott. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Scott Mansfield >=20 > Ericsson Inc. >=20 > +1 724 931 9316 >=20 >=20 From adrian@olddog.co.uk Mon Mar 4 08:39:00 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5AEA921F8517 for ; Mon, 4 Mar 2013 08:39:00 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FgaSLQHQVfNp for ; Mon, 4 Mar 2013 08:38:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from asmtp4.iomartmail.com (asmtp4.iomartmail.com [62.128.201.175]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D74E21F890D for ; Mon, 4 Mar 2013 08:38:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from asmtp4.iomartmail.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by asmtp4.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r24Gcpjr031904; Mon, 4 Mar 2013 16:38:51 GMT Received: from 950129200 (089144192173.atnat0001.highway.a1.net [89.144.192.173]) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp4.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r24GcnRQ031896 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Mon, 4 Mar 2013 16:38:50 GMT From: "Adrian Farrel" To: Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2013 16:38:52 -0000 Message-ID: <00ee01ce18f6$c2a185f0$47e491d0$@olddog.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: Ac4Y9mnAjbIoBTGzSKuHOiXPIAgUqA== Content-Language: en-gb Cc: mpls@ietf.org Subject: [mpls] AD review of draft-ietf-mpls-tp-ring-protection X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: adrian@olddog.co.uk List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2013 16:39:00 -0000 Hi authors of draft-ietf-mpls-tp-ring-protection, I have conducted my usual review of your document in response to the publication request received from the working group. The purpose of my review is to find and resolve issues that might otherwise be found later in the process (IETF last call, IESG review, RFC Editor processing) and which might slow down the progress of the document or obscure other issues. Can I begin by saying that this document is much clearer and better structured than the version I reviewed some time ago in the working group. Thanks for all of the work that has gone into it. Although I found the description of protection for p2mp LSPs became quite complex, I cannot see a way to make it clearer and more direct. I suspect it is of the nature of the subject that the material has to be a bit convoluted. In practice, you have used simple words and a logical progression, so there is probably nothing further to be done. I did find a number of fairly small editorial issues and questions that I would like you to handle before we move on. I will put the document into "Revised I-D needed" state, but please note that all of my comments are open for discussion. Thanks again for the work, Adrian --- Why are there eight authors on the front page? Did all authors contribute equally to the document with some special reason why they all need to be named on the front page? If so, I need to understand the circumstances to defend them to the RFC Editor. If not, can you please split the list into: Editors - appear on the front page - listed in the Authors' Addresses section Contributing Authors - not on the font page - listed in the Contributors section --- In Section 1 This document proposes a set of basic mechanisms that could be used for the protection of the data flows that traverse an MPLS-TP ring. These mechanisms are based on existing MPLS and MPLS-TP protection mechanisms. These mechanisms provide data flow protection due to any switching trigger within a reasonable time frame and optimize the criteria set out in [RFC5654], as summarized above. This seems to contradict the statement in the Abstract that this is an applicability of linear protection to a ring. Is this document a description of how you use LP in a ring, or does it describe new mechanisms? I think the former, in which case this para should probably read This document describes how a set of basic MPLS-TP linear protection mechanisms defined in [RFC6378] can be used to provide protection of the data flows that traverse an MPLS-TP ring. These mechanisms provide data flow protection in the event of any switching trigger within a reasonable time frame and optimize the criteria set out in [RFC5654], as summarized above. Additionally, I believe it would be helpful to state in the Abstract and in the Introduction that: This document defines no new protocol mechanisms or procedures. --- In Section 1.1, why do bullets 1 and 2 (the first of the so-numbered) include the possibility of traffic either ending at the egress node or continuing on beyond the ring, yet not specifically countenance traffic starting at the ingress node or originating outside the ring? Is there something special I am missing? --- In Section 1.1 bullet 3 you have: An operator command is issued to a specific ring node. I think a little more specificity is needed. For example, An operator command that changes the operational state of a node or a link, or specifically triggers a protection action is issued to a specific ring node. --- Should the last para of 1.1 actually be in 1.2? --- While Figure 2 can be (and is!) used to explain steering in Section 2.2, the figure is actually demonstrating SPMEs and as such is confusing. I think you need an additional figure to explain steering. It would look as: ======>/LSR\********/LSR\********/LSR\======> \_B_/########\_A_/########\_F_/ *@ @* *@ @* *@ @* _*@ ___ @*_ /LSR\********/LSR\********/LSR\ \_C_/@@@@@@@@\_D_/@@@@@@@@\_E_/ ===> connected LSP *** physical link ### working path @@@ alternate path Figure 2: Steering protection for P2P path --- Shouldn't Figures 3, 4 and 5 show "connected LSP" for comparison with other figures? --- Figure 5 is almost impossible to parse. It is not just the way it is drawn, but the lack of text that describes the figure using the terms expressed in the key. --- Section 2.4 says "(based on a ring with N nodes, assumed to be not more than 16)" Is there actually anything in this text that relies on that assumption? Do the mechanisms have problems for N > 16 ? --- I am curious as to why the optimisation for wrapping is presented in Section 3.1 for p2mp flows on the ring, but is not offered as an option for p2p flows for which it is equally applicable. --- The text in 3.1 that refers back to "normal" wrapping is suspect. This improved mechanism, which we call Ring Optimized Multipoint Wrapping (ROM-Wrapping), behaves much the same as classical wrapping. There is one difference - rather than configuring the protection LSP between the end nodes of a failed link (link protection) or between the upstream and downstream node of a failed node (node protection), the improved mechanism configures a protection p2mp LSP from the upstream (with respect to the failure) node and all egress nodes (for the particular LSP) downstream from the failure. I think that in wrapping in conventional transport networks, the protection LSP is not configured in the way you say. Instead, it exists as a complete ring. Only when a fault is detected (effectively breaking the protection ring) is the protection LSP terminated at the edges of the fault. Maybe your text is intending to talk about SPMEs? Maybe this back- reference is actually not necessary in this section that should describe what ROM-Wrapping does, not what it doesn't do. --- In section 3.1 you have introduced a new notation to indicate the ring-exits on the LSP. This is fine but: - you don't explain it - the notation conflicts with that which you carefully introduced for label stacks. --- Figure 7 is included in Section 3.2 but not referenced until 3.2.1. Should it be moved? --- In 3.2.1 please expand LIB --- Section 8 is a bit weak :-) I suppose there were too many people to list individually! From gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com Mon Mar 4 09:32:43 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D96B21F8CF0 for ; Mon, 4 Mar 2013 09:32:43 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ca+qNYdKA3ZW for ; Mon, 4 Mar 2013 09:32:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from usevmg20.ericsson.net (usevmg20.ericsson.net [198.24.6.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D4B021F8CEE for ; Mon, 4 Mar 2013 09:32:38 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: c618062d-b7f0d6d00000097e-0b-5134dab58276 Received: from EUSAAHC001.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [147.117.188.75]) by usevmg20.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 38.27.02430.5BAD4315; Mon, 4 Mar 2013 18:32:37 +0100 (CET) Received: from EUSAAMB103.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.120]) by EUSAAHC001.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.75]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.004; Mon, 4 Mar 2013 12:32:37 -0500 From: Gregory Mirsky To: "curtis@occnc.com" , "mpls@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: MPLS-RT review of draft-villamizar-mpls-forwarding Thread-Index: AQHOE4Xg6MlylcqIVkaChewaqKHJZpiONWRg Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2013 17:32:36 +0000 Message-ID: <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF11206C7A0@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> References: Your message of "Thu, 21 Feb 2013 21:11:24 GMT." <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF112069857@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <201302251826.r1PIQdM3002414@gateway1.orleans.occnc.com> In-Reply-To: <201302251826.r1PIQdM3002414@gateway1.orleans.occnc.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [147.117.188.135] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF11206C7A0eusaamb103ericsso_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFlrJIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyuXSPt+7WWyaBBgsOGlkcPjCd3aLrxAxW i6Y5mxkt/s2dw2xxZ9cXVovvl5awWNxaupLV4u6CJhaLh5MvsTtwerQ+28vqMeX3RlaPJUt+ MnlsfbKE3WPxFz+PWdPb2DzaXip4fLn8mS2AI4rLJiU1J7MstUjfLoErY9KedWwFTYsYK2bt /c7SwDitlbGLkZNDQsBE4se7TmYIW0ziwr31bF2MXBxCAkcYJaZ83coM4SxjlGg9uRWsik3A SOLFxh52EFtEwEvi8eU2sA5mgQ5miU2nd7KAJIQF7CUWvJnEBlHkIDG1q58FwjaS2HJ+NZjN IqAiseTYGlYQm1fAW+LE6rlMENuOMkp8ajkPluAUcJV4vOcTE4jNCHTf91NrwGxmAXGJW0/m M0HcLSCxZM95qB9EJV4+/scKYStLfJ/ziAWiPl/ixfVvzBDLBCVOznzCMoFRdBaSUbOQlM1C UgYR15FYsPsTG4StLbFs4WtmGPvMgcdMyOILGNlXMXKUFqeW5aYbGWxiBEb3MQk23R2Me15a HmKU5mBREucNcr0QICSQnliSmp2aWpBaFF9UmpNafIiRiYNTqoHRpjFzkarJN/5Fiat2mpv9 ezzthhr/Sqntkx4d7H6369nZl79Mzn/MbXu3Q/joFOnnwuldVwSaqp4wajjufqDyv9D45LGM /tRlkV+um3z5GMSnmqdwcs2neemx16deVZxgo+rgtG7q52eq7btPOS3Yqb71wpdHBbkFmk4p f9ikqqOK+qzLWxfJKbEUZyQaajEXFScCAN8dvpO8AgAA Cc: "draft-villamizar-mpls-forwarding@tools.ietf.org" , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-villamizar-mpls-forwarding X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2013 17:32:43 -0000 --_000_7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF11206C7A0eusaamb103ericsso_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Curtis, I've snipped RT part. Please find my notes in-lined tagged by GIM>> Regards, Greg [...] > As I read the document I put some notes that you might consider as > regular comments: > > Need to build list of acronyms Will do. I'll look to RFC 5513 for guidance. > Section 1.2, bullet 5 > With definition of Control Channel Type 4 in PW VCCV "MUST" can be > changed to "SHOULD". The last sentence might be reworded to > "Deployments SHOULD allow enabling and disabling use of PW Control > Word". Please notice the phrase "if MPLS-TP is supported or if ACH is being used o= n a pseudowire [RFC5586]." MPLS-TP and RFC5586 (G-ACh and GAL) are cited a= s the reason for this requirement being a MUST. In rereading this I notice that we should add "The implementor and system d= esigner SHOULD support pseudowire control word if MPLS-TP and RFC5586 are not used [RFC5085]." GIM>> Even though RFC 5586 excluded GAL from being used on MPLS -TP PWs, I = believe that there's rough agreement in PWE3 WG that PW VCCV Control Channe= l Type 4 will be applicable to MPLS-TP PWs when Type 1 (ACH) not in use. He= nce was my suggestion to change from "MUST" to "SHOULD". Then, since PW CW = is SHOULD, we need to say something about GAL, PW VCCV Control Channel Type= 4. I'd put it at SHOULD too with addition of "deployments SHOULD be able t= o use Type 4 Control Channel is use of PW CW is not mandatory". That should make it more clear (SHOULD if RFC5085 compliant only, MUST if u= sing MPLS-TP and/or RFC5586 compliant). > Section 1.3, bullet 4 > Can these tests or any subset of them be viewed as MPLS forwarding > performance benchmarking tests (BMWG)? Al Morton (BMWG chair) is aware of this work and has forwarded a pointer to= BMWG. Jay Karthik commented on BMWG. Work is to continue in MPLS, but wh= en things have settled down, BMWG may apply the level of rigor they normall= y apply to assure consistent testing where there is sufficient interest in = standardizing test procedures. > Section 2.1.1 > Reference to Extended Special Purpose MPLS Labels in the section? If and when it becomes a WG document. There is no dependency on that draft= and it is best to not refer to work that may not advance. Keep in mind th= at draft-kompella-mpls-special-purpose-labels changes the use of reserved l= abels, by assigning new meaning to label 15. BTW- I think draft-kompella-mpls-special-purpose-label is good work and IMO= it should go through this WG RT process and a call should be made to make = it a WG document. > Section 2.1.3 > First sentence: I think that "MPLS LSP may be used to carry NTP or PTP > and synchronize clocks ..." might be closer to the goal of > 1588overmpls document. I'm not sure what your objection is. Here is the paragraph sentence by sen= tence with annotation. PTP or NTP may be carried over MPLS [I-D.ietf-tictoc-1588overmpls]. GIM>> I think of "carried over" as Ethernet carried over MPLS in PW. The pu= rpose of 1588overMPLS is not only carry NTP or PTP over MPLS domain but to = distribute clock synchronization according to capabilities of LSRs. That is exactly as you pointed out. I'm a little concerned that this work may have stalled. Generally NTP will be carried within IP with IP carried in MPLS [RFC5905]. That says that NTP has traditionally gone over IP with IP carried over MPLS. I don't think there is an argument there. Both PTP and NTP benefit from accurate time stamping of incoming packets and the ability to insert accurate time stamps in outgoing packets. I don't think anyone would argue this point. Could you point out what you think needs to be changed? Is it some other p= aragraph? GIM>> Don't think that these are my notes. I had only one comment to sectio= n 2.1.3 > Section 2.1.7 > Could the section be named "MPLS-TE Local Protection" or "MPLS-TE Fast > Reroute" as RFC 4090 is applicable only to RSVP-TE signaled LSP. RFC4090 has always been known within the IETF as MPLS Fast Reroute or MPLS = FRR. If at some point there is acceptance of IPFRR and extensions to IPFRR= to support LDP, then mpls-forwarding-bis can rename these sections. [...] > Section 2.4 > The last paragraph seams repetitive of third paragraph. Perhaps the > last one can be merged into the third as: > > In order to support an adequately balanced load distribution across > multiple links, IP header information must be used. Common > practice today is to reinspect the IP headers at each LSR and use > the label stack and IP header information in a hash performed at > each LSR in the network, combined with a hash seed that is selected > by each LSR. Where flow labels or entropy labels are used, a hash > seed must be used. Further details are provided in Section 2.4.5. The last paragraph is about the hash seed. It could be shortenned to get r= id of the redundancy yet keep discussion of the hash seed separate. Common practice today is to reinspect the packet at each LSR and use information from the packet combined with a hash seed that is selected by each LSR. Where flow labels or entropy labels are used, a hash seed must be used when creating these labels. Is that OK with you? GIM>> Thank you, it works. > Section 2.4.5.1 > bullet 3: Following on draft-kompella-mpls-special-purpose-labels- > would suggest changing "reserved labels" to "special purpose labels" > with note that these might be of one MPLS label element length or > two elements (extension label + extended special purpose label). For now we are not citing draft-kompella-mpls-special-purpose-labels When (if) it becomes draft-ietf-mpls-special-purpose-labels, we'll make cha= nges. Note that Kireeti is a co-author of this document and is OK with that. GIM>> Clearly it is up to authors how to select terminology. I just noticed= that "special purpose labels" becomes more and more used vs. "reserved labels". > bullet 5: I believe it is possible that first nibble of MAC is > either 4 or 6. If that is the case, then use of the first nibble of > the payload to determine its type and apply casting might cause > re-ordering for Ethernet PWs. Perhaps it can be provided as > rationale to control whether node performs first nibble > interpretation or not. Note the wording "an implementation SHOULD support the ability", and the st= atement "If supported, there MUST be a way to disable it (if, for example, = PW without CW are used)." The "MUST be able to disable it" (sic) covers the case where a MAC starts w= ith 4 or 6 in the first nibble. Also note that the xml has the following comment: We didn't cite draft-ietf-pwe3-vccv-impl-survey-results because the draft s= eems to be stuck. Andy is co-author and PWE3 chair and he's OK with this. = If it gets unstuck we'll add a sentence. > Section 2.6.4 or 2.6.5 > Whether in discussing MPLS-TP OAM or MPLS OAM and Layer 2 OAM > interworking might discuss issue of MPLS-TP CC interval matching CCM > intervals in IEEE 802.1ag/Y.1731 and difference in determining Loss of > Connectivity between BFD-based CC and Ethernet OAM. I think that is too much detail on OAM. If there is an OAM interworking do= cument that we can cite, then please point it out. For now, we cite the do= cuments that exist: RFC6670, RFC6310, draft-ietf-pwe3-mpls-eth-oam-iwk (just about out of the IESG, so an RFC soon). In IETF there is only one MPLS-TP OAM. We are not going to fight that batt= le in this document. If 802.1ag/Y.1731 is a server layer, then MPLS-TP timers have to be set a h= alf decimal order of magnitude or more longer. If PW is a server layer, th= en 802.1ag/Y.1731 timers have to be set a half decimal order of magnitude o= r more longer. But this level of detail does not belong here. [...] --_000_7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF11206C7A0eusaamb103ericsso_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Curtis,
I've snipped RT part. Please find my notes in-lined tagged by GIM>&= gt;
 
        Regards,
           &nbs= p;    Greg
 
[…]
 
> As I read the document I put some notes that you might consider a= s
> regular comments:
> 
> Need to build list of acronyms
 
Will do.  I'll look to RFC 5513 for guidance.
 
> Section 1.2, bullet 5
> With definition of Control Channel Type 4 in PW VCCV "MUST&q= uot; can be
> changed to "SHOULD". The last sentence might be reworde= d to
> "Deployments SHOULD allow enabling and disabling use of PW C= ontrol
> Word".
 
Please notice the phrase "if MPLS-TP is supported or if ACH is be= ing used on a pseudowire [RFC5586]."  MPLS-TP and RFC5586 (G-ACh = and GAL) are cited as the reason for this requirement being a MUST.
 
In rereading this I notice that we should add "The implementor an= d system designer SHOULD support pseudowire control word if MPLS-TP and
RFC5586 are not used [RFC5085]."
GIM>> Even though RFC 5586 excluded GAL fro= m being used on MPLS -TP PWs, I believe that there's rough agreement in PWE= 3 WG that PW VCCV Control Channel Type 4 will be applicable to MPLS-TP PWs = when Type 1 (ACH) not in use. Hence was my suggestion to change from "MUST" to "SHOULD". Then, = since PW CW is SHOULD, we need to say something about GAL, PW VCCV Control = Channel Type 4. I'd put it at SHOULD too with addition of "deployments= SHOULD be able to use Type 4 Control Channel is use of PW CW is not mandatory".
 
That should make it more clear (SHOULD if RFC5085 compliant only, MUST= if using MPLS-TP and/or RFC5586 compliant).
 
> Section 1.3, bullet 4
> Can these tests or any subset of them be viewed as MPLS forwardin= g
> performance benchmarking tests (BMWG)?
 
Al Morton (BMWG chair) is aware of this work and has forwarded a point= er to BMWG.  Jay Karthik commented on BMWG.  Work is to continue = in MPLS, but when things have settled down, BMWG may apply the level of rig= or they normally apply to assure consistent testing where there is sufficient interest in standardizing test procedures= .
 
> Section 2.1.1
> Reference to Extended Special Purpose MPLS Labels in the section?=
 
If and when it becomes a WG document.  There is no dependency on = that draft and it is best to not refer to work that may not advance.  = Keep in mind that draft-kompella-mpls-special-purpose-labels changes the us= e of reserved labels, by assigning new meaning to label 15.
 
BTW- I think draft-kompella-mpls-special-purpose-label is good work an= d IMO it should go through this WG RT process and a call should be made to = make it a WG document.
 
> Section 2.1.3
> First sentence: I think that "MPLS LSP may be used to carry = NTP or PTP
> and synchronize clocks ..." might be closer to the goal of <= /div>
> 1588overmpls document.
 
I'm not sure what your objection is.  Here is the paragraph sente= nce by sentence with annotation.
 
   PTP or NTP may be carried over MPLS [I-D.ietf-tictoc-1588= overmpls].
 
GIM>> I think of "carried over" a= s Ethernet carried over MPLS in PW. The purpose of 1588overMPLS is not only= carry NTP or PTP over MPLS domain but to distribute clock synchronization = according to capabilities of LSRs.
 
      That is exactly as you pointed out.&nbs= p; I'm a little concerned that
      this work may have stalled.
 
   Generally NTP will be carried within IP with IP carried i= n MPLS
   [RFC5905].
 
      That says that NTP has traditionally go= ne over IP with IP
      carried over MPLS.  I don't think = there is an argument there.
 
   Both PTP and NTP benefit from accurate time stamping of i= ncoming
   packets and the ability to insert accurate time stamps in= outgoing
   packets.
 
      I don't think anyone would argue this p= oint.
 
Could you point out what you think needs to be changed?  Is it so= me other paragraph?
 
GIM>> Don't think that these are my notes. = I had only one comment to section 2.1.3
 
> Section 2.1.7
> Could the section be named "MPLS-TE Local Protection" o= r "MPLS-TE Fast
> Reroute" as RFC 4090 is applicable only to RSVP-TE signaled = LSP.
 
RFC4090 has always been known within the IETF as MPLS Fast Reroute or = MPLS FRR.  If at some point there is acceptance of IPFRR and extension= s to IPFRR to support LDP, then mpls-forwarding-bis can rename these sectio= ns.
 
[…]
 
> Section 2.4
> The last paragraph seams repetitive of third paragraph. Perhaps t= he
> last one can be merged into the third as:
> 
>    In order to support an adequately balanced load= distribution across
>    multiple links, IP header information must be u= sed.  Common
>    practice today is to reinspect the IP headers a= t each LSR and use
>    the label stack and IP header information in a = hash performed at
>    each LSR in the network, combined with a hash s= eed that is selected
>    by each LSR.  Where flow labels or entropy= labels are used, a hash
>    seed must be used. Further details are provided= in Section 2.4.5.
 
The last paragraph is about the hash seed.  It could be shortenne= d to get rid of the redundancy yet keep discussion of the hash seed separat= e.
 
   Common practice today is to reinspect the packet at each = LSR and
   use information from the packet combined with a hash seed= that is
   selected by each LSR.  Where flow labels or entropy = labels are
   used, a hash seed must be used when creating these labels= .
 
Is that OK with you?
GIM>> Thank you, it works.
 
> Section 2.4.5.1
> bullet 3: Following on draft-kompella-mpls-special-purpose-labels= -
>   would suggest changing "reserved labels" to= "special purpose labels"
>   with note that these might be of one MPLS label eleme= nt length or
>   two elements (extension label + extended special = purpose label).
 
For now we are not citing draft-kompella-mpls-special-purpose-labels
When (if) it becomes draft-ietf-mpls-special-purpose-labels, we'll mak= e changes.
 
Note that Kireeti is a co-author of this document and is OK with that.=
GIM>> Clearly it is up to authors how to se= lect terminology. I just noticed that "special purpose labels" be= comes
more and more used vs. "reserved labels"= ;.
 
> bullet 5: I believe it is possible that first nibble of MAC is
>   either 4 or 6. If that is the case, then use of the f= irst nibble of
>   the payload to determine its type and apply casting m= ight cause
>   re-ordering for Ethernet PWs. Perhaps it can be provi= ded as
>   rationale to control whether node performs first nibb= le
>   interpretation or not.
 
Note the wording "an implementation SHOULD support the ability&qu= ot;, and the statement "If supported, there MUST be a way to disable i= t (if, for example, PW without CW are used)."
 
The "MUST be able to disable it" (sic) covers the case where= a MAC starts with 4 or 6 in the first nibble.
 
Also note that the xml has the following comment:
 
   <!--
   draft-ietf-pwe3-vccv-impl-survey-results recommends that = the
   control word always be used.  Some service providers= require
   control word support for all encapsulations, and always u= se it.
   -->
 
We didn't cite draft-ietf-pwe3-vccv-impl-survey-results because the dr= aft seems to be stuck.  Andy is co-author and PWE3 chair and he's OK w= ith this.  If it gets unstuck we'll add a sentence.
 
> Section 2.6.4 or 2.6.5
> Whether in discussing MPLS-TP OAM or MPLS OAM and Layer 2 OAM
> interworking might discuss issue of MPLS-TP CC interval matching = CCM
> intervals in IEEE 802.1ag/Y.1731 and difference in determining Lo= ss of
> Connectivity between BFD-based CC and Ethernet OAM.
 
I think that is too much detail on OAM.  If there is an OAM inter= working document that we can cite, then please point it out.  For now,= we cite the documents that exist:
 
  RFC6670, RFC6310, draft-ietf-pwe3-mpls-eth-oam-iwk (just about = out
  of the IESG, so an RFC soon).
 
In IETF there is only one MPLS-TP OAM.  We are not going to fight= that battle in this document.
 
If 802.1ag/Y.1731 is a server layer, then MPLS-TP timers have to be se= t a half decimal order of magnitude or more longer.  If PW is a server= layer, then 802.1ag/Y.1731 timers have to be set a half decimal order of m= agnitude or more longer.  But this level of detail does not belong here.
 
[…]
 
 --_000_7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF11206C7A0eusaamb103ericsso_-- From iesg-secretary@ietf.org Mon Mar 4 09:53:00 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D66C221F8D31; Mon, 4 Mar 2013 09:53:00 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.414 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.414 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.185, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6OJWn3WF4qA2; Mon, 4 Mar 2013 09:53:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9FDF21F8D42; Mon, 4 Mar 2013 09:52:59 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: The IESG To: IETF-Announce X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 4.41 Message-ID: <20130304175259.12392.73866.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2013 09:52:59 -0800 Cc: mpls mailing list , mpls chair , RFC Editor Subject: [mpls] Protocol Action: 'MPLS-TP Identifiers Following ITU-T Conventions' to Proposed Standard (draft-ietf-mpls-tp-itu-t-identifiers-08.txt) X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2013 17:53:01 -0000 The IESG has approved the following document: - 'MPLS-TP Identifiers Following ITU-T Conventions' (draft-ietf-mpls-tp-itu-t-identifiers-08.txt) as Proposed Standard This document is the product of the Multiprotocol Label Switching Working Group. The IESG contact persons are Adrian Farrel and Stewart Bryant. A URL of this Internet Draft is: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-tp-itu-t-identifiers/ Technical Summary This document augments the initial set of identifiers to be used in the Transport Profile of Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS-TP) defined in RFC6370. RFC6370 defines a set of MPLS-TP transport and management entity identifiers to support bidirectional (co-routed and associated) point-to-point MPLS-TP LSPs, including PWs and Sections which follow the IP/MPLS conventions. This document specifies an alternative way to uniquely identify an operator/service provider based on ITU-T conventions, and specifies how this operator/service provider identifier can be used to make the existing set of MPLS-TP transport and management entity identifiers, defined by RFC6370, globally unique. This document solely defines those identifiers. Their use and possible protocols extensions to carry them is out of scope in this document. Working Group Summary: When we started the MPLS-TP project, it was generally understood that the IETF protocols would be the protocols to be extended and built upon. Backwards compatibility and one single MPLS technology, among other things were considered important. However, it was also agreed that MPLS-TP should be possible to run in networks that do not natively include IP routing and IP addressing. This doucment specifies a set of identifiers for such networks. While the working group has never taken a strong interest in this document, there has also been a general agreement that the "ITU-T identifiers" need to be specified as part of the MPLS-TP project. Document Quality: We do not know any implementations of this draft. Personnel: Loa Andersson (loa@pi.nu) is the document shepherd. Adrian Farrel (adrian@olddog.co.uk) is the responsible AD. RFC Editor Note Section 8 s/describe use/describe the use/ From iesg-secretary@ietf.org Mon Mar 4 09:53:01 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E89821F8D55 for ; Mon, 4 Mar 2013 09:53:01 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.441 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.441 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.159, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Z31eSlcfccqM; Mon, 4 Mar 2013 09:53:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3BC721F8D57; Mon, 4 Mar 2013 09:52:59 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: The IESG To: IANA X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 4.41 X-IETF-Draft-string: draft-ietf-mpls-tp-itu-t-identifiers X-IETF-Draft-revision: 08 Message-ID: <20130304175259.12392.18054.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2013 09:52:59 -0800 Cc: mpls mailing list , mpls chair , RFC Editor Subject: [mpls] Protocol Action: 'MPLS-TP Identifiers Following ITU-T Conventions' to Proposed Standard (draft-ietf-mpls-tp-itu-t-identifiers-08.txt) X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: noreply@ietf.org List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2013 17:53:01 -0000 The IESG has approved the following document: - 'MPLS-TP Identifiers Following ITU-T Conventions' (draft-ietf-mpls-tp-itu-t-identifiers-08.txt) as Proposed Standard This document is the product of the Multiprotocol Label Switching Working Group. The IESG contact persons are Adrian Farrel and Stewart Bryant. A URL of this Internet Draft is: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-tp-itu-t-identifiers/ Technical Summary This document augments the initial set of identifiers to be used in the Transport Profile of Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS-TP) defined in RFC6370. RFC6370 defines a set of MPLS-TP transport and management entity identifiers to support bidirectional (co-routed and associated) point-to-point MPLS-TP LSPs, including PWs and Sections which follow the IP/MPLS conventions. This document specifies an alternative way to uniquely identify an operator/service provider based on ITU-T conventions, and specifies how this operator/service provider identifier can be used to make the existing set of MPLS-TP transport and management entity identifiers, defined by RFC6370, globally unique. This document solely defines those identifiers. Their use and possible protocols extensions to carry them is out of scope in this document. Working Group Summary: When we started the MPLS-TP project, it was generally understood that the IETF protocols would be the protocols to be extended and built upon. Backwards compatibility and one single MPLS technology, among other things were considered important. However, it was also agreed that MPLS-TP should be possible to run in networks that do not natively include IP routing and IP addressing. This doucment specifies a set of identifiers for such networks. While the working group has never taken a strong interest in this document, there has also been a general agreement that the "ITU-T identifiers" need to be specified as part of the MPLS-TP project. Document Quality: We do not know any implementations of this draft. Personnel: Loa Andersson (loa@pi.nu) is the document shepherd. Adrian Farrel (adrian@olddog.co.uk) is the responsible AD. RFC Editor Note Section 8 s/describe use/describe the use/ From jeongryoo@gmail.com Mon Mar 4 20:49:45 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C53141F0D0D for ; Mon, 4 Mar 2013 20:49:44 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Pxy+Yob2eeY8 for ; Mon, 4 Mar 2013 20:49:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-la0-x235.google.com (mail-la0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c03::235]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0927F21F85C6 for ; Mon, 4 Mar 2013 20:49:37 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-la0-f53.google.com with SMTP id fr10so5682363lab.40 for ; Mon, 04 Mar 2013 20:49:37 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=0eyWTCebKOE6bbpiQdqQKoil2LRVQ1hm0Fxxs0ZWhOs=; b=i2WLhdrp7ONepT20p94nm0SPWjtRrJxRtR1fXhV37EjLV0n/OGeenSgskWB3iiUfN3 6CwJXHNKOuBIKQV6g3PYf9KYxScpRJG3Y7ha9sxTSs1kcNUcGYnMSOaUZSVfNHvW9O2a P5V02ufz7ex5TUmJF3TUfCe0y+jZF+Y5qmDTy+bvdIPr3MaWRwJDR+8QR0jDt/8Igxl+ l56PIdeEC+lXcE6O1+Nv0vD39/oc/Ic3TywqMe6bkltWg6wj7uuPup6cLB5PiJDShEol jSyqw7ZnmSnuWastE4/dva6dXwK5MIFavsaLwAjMjb3hLJltX5mbwWIV5ohwVNEVUBf+ zKWg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.152.104.36 with SMTP id gb4mr20296734lab.13.1362458976884; Mon, 04 Mar 2013 20:49:36 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.112.155.5 with HTTP; Mon, 4 Mar 2013 20:49:36 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <5B4A6CBE3924BB41A3BEE462A8E0B75A0DF0C087@SMTP2.etri.info> References: <20ECF67871905846A80F77F8F4A27572100F36DF@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com> <5B4A6CBE3924BB41A3BEE462A8E0B75A0DF0C087@SMTP2.etri.info> Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2013 13:49:36 +0900 Message-ID: From: Jeong Ryoo To: eosborne@cisco.com, scott.mansfield@ericsson.com, mpls@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [mpls] Response to ITU-T MPLS Linear Protection Liaison X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2013 04:49:45 -0000 Hi, Eric and all, Recently, a couple of new drafts have been submitted to address the issues indentified in the ITU-T liaison as follows: Also, I am aware of some activities to submit new drafts as soon as the cut-off period ends. - Point 1: draft-rhd-mpls-tp-psc-priority-00 (submitted in 2013-02-18) - Point 2: draft-osborne-mpls-psc-updates-00 (submitted in 2013-02-11) - Point 3: draft-dj-mpls-tp-exer-psc-00 (submitted in 2013-02-13) - Point 4: draft-rhd-mpls-tp-psc-sd-00 (will be submitted in 2013-03-11) - Point 5: Not an issue any more - Point 6: Not an issue any more - Point 7: No known activity. (In Eric's email, this was covered in draft-osborne-mpls-psc-updates draft. But, I don't see the text to address this issue. Eric, do you intend to cover this point in the future version of draft-osborne-mpls-psc-updates draft?) - Point 8: draft-osborne-mpls-psc-updates-00 (submitted in 2013-02-11) - Point 9: draft-rhd-mpls-tp-psc-priority-00 (submitted in 2013-02-18 to support Freeze) draft-cdh-mpls-tp-psc-non-revertive-00 (will be submitted in 2013-03-11 to support MS-W and further clarify the non-revertive operation) - Point 10: draft-rhd-mpls-tp-psc-priority-00 (submitted in 2013-02-18) Best regards, Jeong-dong P.S. I am sending this email again as my previous email disappeared from the list. ________________________________ =EB=B3=B4=EB=82=B8 =EC=82=AC=EB=9E=8C : "Eric Osborne (eosborne)" =EB=B3=B4=EB=82=B8 =EB=82=A0=EC=A7=9C : 2013-03-05 01:37:04 ( +09:00 ) =EB=B0=9B=EB=8A=94 =EC=82=AC=EB=9E=8C : Scott Mansfield , mpls@ietf.org =EC=B0=B8=EC=A1=B0 : ccamp@ietf.org , pwe3@ietf.org =EC=A0=9C=EB=AA=A9 : Re: [mpls] Response to ITU-T MPLS Linear Protection Li= aison One correction. The draft reply says that points 3,7,8 are covered by an existing draft. I'm not aware of a published draft that covers 3. I have draft-osborne-mpls-psc-updates for 7,8. I have something in the works for 3 but it didn't make the pre-Orlando deadline, and I'm not aware of other work in this area. eric > -----Original Message----- > From: ccamp-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ccamp-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > Scott Mansfield > Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2013 9:53 AM > To: mpls@ietf.org > Cc: ccamp@ietf.org; pwe3@ietf.org > Subject: [CCAMP] Response to ITU-T MPLS Linear Protection Liaison > > MPLS Working Group, > > > > A liaison has been received from ITU-T SG 15 on the topic of Linear prote= ction > switching. A draft response has been generated and is attached to this ma= il > (both word and pdf). Please direct all comments on the content of the lia= ison > response to the MPLS working group mailing list. > > > > Background information: > > > > The liaison from SG15 can be found here =C3=A0 > https://datatracker.ietf.org/documents/LIAISON/liaison-2013-02-05-itu-t-s= g-15- > mpls-recommendation-itu-t-g8131-revision-linear-protection-switching-for- > mpls-tp-networks-attachment-1.pdf > > 15-mpls-recommendation-itu-t-g8131-revision-linear-protection-switching= -for- > mpls-tp-networks-attachment-1.pdf> > > > > History: > > The above liaison is in response to this liaison from the MPLS WG =C3=A0 > https://datatracker.ietf.org/liaison/1229/ > which was in response to the SG15 > liaison =C3=A0 https://datatracker.ietf.org/liaison/1205/ > which responded to =C3=A0 > https://datatracker.ietf.org/liaison/1174/ which responded to =C3=A0 > https://datatracker.ietf.org/liaison/1162/ > > > > > Regards, > > -scott. > > > > > > Scott Mansfield > > Ericsson Inc. > > +1 724 931 9316 > > _______________________________________________ mpls mailing list mpls@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls From loa@pi.nu Tue Mar 5 01:14:55 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D31821F8717 for ; Tue, 5 Mar 2013 01:14:55 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.048 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.048 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, RDNS_NONE=0.1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id p4bnb6kDYv3W for ; Tue, 5 Mar 2013 01:14:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.pi.nu (unknown [195.206.248.139]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B6E021F8713 for ; Tue, 5 Mar 2013 01:14:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.104] (81-236-221-144-no93.tbcn.telia.com [81.236.221.144]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.pi.nu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 193A17FE07; Tue, 5 Mar 2013 10:14:49 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <5135B791.6080708@pi.nu> Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2013 10:14:57 +0100 From: Loa Andersson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130215 Thunderbird/17.0.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: adrian@olddog.co.uk References: <00ee01ce18f6$c2a185f0$47e491d0$@olddog.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <00ee01ce18f6$c2a185f0$47e491d0$@olddog.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: mpls@ietf.org, draft-ietf-mpls-tp-ring-protection.all@tools.ietf.org Subject: Re: [mpls] AD review of draft-ietf-mpls-tp-ring-protection X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2013 09:14:55 -0000 Adrian, Thanks for this review I think I'm in the position to answer the question on the number of authors. Early 2010 we had 5 or 6 different drafts addressing "mpls-tp-ring- protection" from one aspect or another. Most of these drafts had 2 or maybe 3 different authors. The wg chairs took an initiative to discuss the possibilities to merge all drafts into one. The discussion was partially succesful, and all draft but one, were merged into a single document. Texts from all drafts were merged into draft-weingarten-mpls-tp- ring-protection (later to be adopted as the working group draft draft-ietf-mpls-tp-ring-protection. The number of authors on the first page reflect text contributions made to the drafts that were merged. /Loa On 2013-03-04 17:38, Adrian Farrel wrote: > Hi authors of draft-ietf-mpls-tp-ring-protection, > > I have conducted my usual review of your document in response to the > publication request received from the working group. The purpose of > my review is to find and resolve issues that might otherwise be found > later in the process (IETF last call, IESG review, RFC Editor > processing) and which might slow down the progress of the document or > obscure other issues. > > Can I begin by saying that this document is much clearer and better > structured than the version I reviewed some time ago in the working > group. Thanks for all of the work that has gone into it. > > Although I found the description of protection for p2mp LSPs became > quite complex, I cannot see a way to make it clearer and more direct. > I suspect it is of the nature of the subject that the material has to > be a bit convoluted. In practice, you have used simple words and a > logical progression, so there is probably nothing further to be done. > > I did find a number of fairly small editorial issues and questions > that I would like you to handle before we move on. I will put the > document into "Revised I-D needed" state, but please note that all > of my comments are open for discussion. > > Thanks again for the work, > Adrian > > --- > > Why are there eight authors on the front page? > Did all authors contribute equally to the document with some special > reason why they all need to be named on the front page? > If so, I need to understand the circumstances to defend them to the RFC > Editor. > If not, can you please split the list into: > Editors > - appear on the front page > - listed in the Authors' Addresses section > Contributing Authors > - not on the font page > - listed in the Contributors section > > --- > > In Section 1 > > This document proposes a set of basic mechanisms that could be used > for the protection of the data flows that traverse an MPLS-TP ring. > These mechanisms are based on existing MPLS and MPLS-TP protection > mechanisms. These mechanisms provide data flow protection due to any > switching trigger within a reasonable time frame and optimize the > criteria set out in [RFC5654], as summarized above. > > This seems to contradict the statement in the Abstract that this is an > applicability of linear protection to a ring. > > Is this document a description of how you use LP in a ring, or does it > describe new mechanisms? I think the former, in which case this para > should probably read > > This document describes how a set of basic MPLS-TP linear protection > mechanisms defined in [RFC6378] can be used to provide protection of > the data flows that traverse an MPLS-TP ring. These mechanisms > provide data flow protection in the event of any switching trigger > within a reasonable time frame and optimize the criteria set out in > [RFC5654], as summarized above. > > Additionally, I believe it would be helpful to state in the Abstract and > in the Introduction that: > > This document defines no new protocol mechanisms or procedures. > > --- > > In Section 1.1, why do bullets 1 and 2 (the first of the so-numbered) > include the possibility of traffic either ending at the egress node or > continuing on beyond the ring, yet not specifically countenance traffic > starting at the ingress node or originating outside the ring? > > Is there something special I am missing? > > --- > > In Section 1.1 bullet 3 you have: > > An operator command is issued to a specific ring node. > > I think a little more specificity is needed. For example, > > An operator command that changes the operational state of a node or > a link, or specifically triggers a protection action is issued to a > specific ring node. > > --- > > Should the last para of 1.1 actually be in 1.2? > > --- > > While Figure 2 can be (and is!) used to explain steering in Section 2.2, > the figure is actually demonstrating SPMEs and as such is confusing. I > think you need an additional figure to explain steering. It would look > as: > > ======>/LSR\********/LSR\********/LSR\======> > \_B_/########\_A_/########\_F_/ > *@ @* > *@ @* > *@ @* > _*@ ___ @*_ > /LSR\********/LSR\********/LSR\ > \_C_/@@@@@@@@\_D_/@@@@@@@@\_E_/ > > ===> connected LSP *** physical link > ### working path @@@ alternate path > > Figure 2: Steering protection for P2P path > > --- > > Shouldn't Figures 3, 4 and 5 show "connected LSP" for comparison with > other figures? > > --- > > Figure 5 is almost impossible to parse. It is not just the way it is > drawn, but the lack of text that describes the figure using the terms > expressed in the key. > > --- > > Section 2.4 says "(based on a ring with N nodes, assumed to be not more > than 16)" > > Is there actually anything in this text that relies on that assumption? > Do the mechanisms have problems for N > 16 ? > > --- > > I am curious as to why the optimisation for wrapping is presented in > Section 3.1 for p2mp flows on the ring, but is not offered as an > option for p2p flows for which it is equally applicable. > > --- > > The text in 3.1 that refers back to "normal" wrapping is suspect. > > This improved mechanism, which we call Ring Optimized Multipoint > Wrapping (ROM-Wrapping), behaves much the same as classical wrapping. > There is one difference - rather than configuring the protection LSP > between the end nodes of a failed link (link protection) or between > the upstream and downstream node of a failed node (node protection), > the improved mechanism configures a protection p2mp LSP from the > upstream (with respect to the failure) node and all egress nodes (for > the particular LSP) downstream from the failure. > > I think that in wrapping in conventional transport networks, the > protection LSP is not configured in the way you say. Instead, it exists > as a complete ring. Only when a fault is detected (effectively breaking > the protection ring) is the protection LSP terminated at the edges of > the fault. > > Maybe your text is intending to talk about SPMEs? Maybe this back- > reference is actually not necessary in this section that should describe > what ROM-Wrapping does, not what it doesn't do. > > --- > > In section 3.1 you have introduced a new notation to indicate the > ring-exits on the LSP. This is fine but: > - you don't explain it > - the notation conflicts with that which you carefully introduced for > label stacks. > > --- > > Figure 7 is included in Section 3.2 but not referenced until 3.2.1. > Should it be moved? > > --- > > In 3.2.1 please expand LIB > > --- > > Section 8 is a bit weak :-) > I suppose there were too many people to list individually! > > > _______________________________________________ > mpls mailing list > mpls@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > -- Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu Huawei Technologies (consult) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 From loa@pi.nu Tue Mar 5 02:34:57 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 867D521F8605 for ; Tue, 5 Mar 2013 02:34:57 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.048 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.048 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, RDNS_NONE=0.1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LLtXDbhOiD93 for ; Tue, 5 Mar 2013 02:34:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.pi.nu (unknown [195.206.248.139]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F38121F8539 for ; Tue, 5 Mar 2013 02:34:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.104] (81-236-221-144-no93.tbcn.telia.com [81.236.221.144]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.pi.nu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5F6A0823B5; Tue, 5 Mar 2013 11:34:47 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <5135CA50.8060402@pi.nu> Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2013 11:34:56 +0100 From: Loa Andersson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130215 Thunderbird/17.0.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "mpls@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: "" , draft-weingarten-mpls-smp-requirements@tools.ietf.org Subject: [mpls] poll to to see if we have support to make draft-weingarten-mpls-smp-requirements a working group document X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2013 10:34:57 -0000 Working Group, This is to start a two week poll on adopting draft-weingarten-mpls-smp-requirements-03 as an MPLS working group document. Please send your comments (support/not support) to the mpls working group mailing list (mpls at ietf.org). Please give a technical motivation for your support/not support, especially if you think that the document should not be adopted as a working group document. This poll ends March 20, 2013. There are no IPR claim against this document. The authors has stated on the working group mailing list that they are not aware of any other IPR claims against this draft. However if you are on the the mpls working group mailing list and aware of IPR that relates to this draft, the time to disclose this is now. /Loa (mpls wg co-chair) -- Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu Huawei Technologies (consult) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 From michelg@upperside.fr Tue Mar 5 03:38:24 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 332AC21F8A42 for ; Tue, 5 Mar 2013 03:38:24 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.669 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.669 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.929, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vfx8lAueeuwd for ; Tue, 5 Mar 2013 03:38:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp26.msg.oleane.net (smtp26.msg.oleane.net [62.161.4.26]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E76021F8A41 for ; Tue, 5 Mar 2013 03:38:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from MichelGosseDel ([195.6.217.229]) (authenticated) by smtp26.msg.oleane.net (MSA) with ESMTP id r25BcK18026400 for ; Tue, 5 Mar 2013 12:38:20 +0100 X-Oleane-Rep: REPA From: "Michel Gosse" To: References: In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2013 12:38:21 +0100 Message-ID: <000501ce1995$f0bad280$d2307780$@upperside.fr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01CE199E.5280C120" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: Ac4Y9BWL/RBV0T+FS+y2Y5HpOIZyowAobxKA Content-Language: fr X-PMX-Spam: Probability=10% X-PFSI-Info: PMX 5.6.0.2009776, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2013.3.5.112716 (no antivirus check) X-Orange-Auth: bWcyNjMtM0B1cHBlc2lkZS5mci5mdG8= Subject: [mpls] MPLS & Ethernet World will start in two weeks X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2013 11:38:24 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01CE199E.5280C120 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The 15th Edition of the MPLS & Ethernet World Congress will take place from the 19th to 22nd of March in Paris. Particular attention will be paid to SDN and OpenFlow issues: What aspects of MPLS are impacted by SDN interfaces? Other sessions will cover End-to-End, Mobile backhaul, Protection and Core networks technical issues. There is still time to register: http://www.uppersideconferences.com/ ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01CE199E.5280C120 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

The 15th = Edition of the MPLS & Ethernet World Congress will = take place from the 19th to 22nd of March in = Paris.

 

Particular = attention will be paid to SDN and = OpenFlow = issues: What = aspects of MPLS are impacted by SDN interfaces?

 

Other = sessions will cover <= /strong>End-to-End, = Mobile = backhaul, = Protection and = ;Core networks technica= l issues. 

 

There is = still time to register:

http://www.uppersideconfere= nces.com/

 =

<= o:p> 

------=_NextPart_000_0006_01CE199E.5280C120-- From Thomas.Beckhaus@telekom.de Tue Mar 5 05:35:18 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3D6021F865D for ; Tue, 5 Mar 2013 05:35:18 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.249 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.249 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2qKrpQ2hPKOW for ; Tue, 5 Mar 2013 05:35:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from tcmail13.telekom.de (tcmail13.telekom.de [80.149.113.165]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7277221F8698 for ; Tue, 5 Mar 2013 05:35:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from he113657.emea1.cds.t-internal.com ([10.134.99.17]) by tcmail11.telekom.de with ESMTP/TLS/AES128-SHA; 05 Mar 2013 14:34:35 +0100 Received: from HE111644.EMEA1.CDS.T-INTERNAL.COM ([10.134.93.13]) by HE113657.emea1.cds.t-internal.com ([::1]) with mapi; Tue, 5 Mar 2013 14:34:23 +0100 From: To: , Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2013 14:34:13 +0100 Thread-Topic: MPLS-RT review of draft-villamizar-mpls-forwarding Thread-Index: Ac4JxRrRbRHdpF4GSY2tu5vM5QsEZwP3n7tg Message-ID: References: <511B5047.7030309@pi.nu> In-Reply-To: <511B5047.7030309@pi.nu> Accept-Language: de-DE Content-Language: de-DE X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: de-DE Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: mpls@ietf.org, mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-villamizar-mpls-forwarding X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2013 13:35:19 -0000 Hello authors and WG leads, I have been asked to review draft-villamizar-mpls-forwarding. I have read the draft and find it very useful. Our own experience while tes= ting and deploying various MPLS equipment have shown that there is a need f= or a written best practices document on MPLS forwarding. I support the adoption as WG draft. The document sounds technically. Some notes: In general: - the draft defines some topics out of scope in the text (e.g. VPN encapsul= ation in section 2.1.9). But it does not explicit define the scope. Only in= the first sentence of section 1, it focusses the draft on "forwarding". An= explicit "scope" definition would be helpful. - Is there a reason to use capital letters for PUSH, POP and SWAP label ope= rations? - I like section 2.6.4, because it uses clear requirements language ("MUST/= SHOULD be supported in hardware..."). In some other sections of the draft, = I miss these clear requirements language. - In some parts, 10 Gbit/s and 100 Gbit/s are mentioned to express high ban= dwidth/performance requirements. Shouldn't it be generalized or do we have = to update the RFC when we talk about 1 Tbit/s, next year? - While start reading, I thought that the draft is a good tutorial about MP= LS forwarding. But the style changes. In some chapters, the text uses a tut= orial style and includes a general discussion about the mentioned concepts = (e.g. section 2.6.1 about DoS protection). In other sections, the authors e= xpect that the reader is aware about the features and the implementation (e= .g. section 2.1.1 about reserved labels). Section 1.2, 2nd bullet, 3rd sentence: delete "the" in "If a the bottom..." Section 2.3, 1st sentence: what is "large"? Section 2.3, paragraph 6, 2nd sentence: replace "are" with "at" ("...minimu= m size packets are full line rate...")? Section 2.4: usage of "Entropy Label" vs. "entropy label" Section 2.4.1: I do not understand the last paragraph completely. Why do you tolerate a mi= ssing control word support in intra-metro (where maybe multiple parallel 1 = GbE links are used?) and low bandwidth environment. My understanding of las= t sentence: For general applicability of MPLS equipment, the support of con= trol word is required. Section 2.4.5: replace "...used, the there are a limited..." by "...used, t= here is a limited..." Section 2.4.5.2 Bullet 4, 3rd sentence: replace "af" by "of". Bullet 6: DSCP and TTL/hop count could be separated in two bullets, because= there a different reasons to not consider these fields. What is the difference between the bullets and the last paragraph in this s= ection (e.g. the SHOULD requirements of IP addresses in the bullets and the= "recommended MUST" in the last paragraph)? Does it makes sense to avoid th= e capitalized letters in this last paragraph to avoid conflict statements i= n this section? Section 2.6.1: I am not sure to understand the reason for this section in this I-D. The dr= aft focusses on forwarding and the required capabilities. This section desc= ribes a need of DoS protection mechanism in general. This has impact on for= warding hardware (forwarding implementations have to provide IP filtering c= apabilities and cryptographic hardware support to offload and distribute Do= S mitigation from the CPU). In the others section, the need of a requiremen= t on forwarding level is not discussed in general (e.g. there is no discuss= ion about general OAM deployments). The OAM capabilities on forwarding leve= l are defined). There are no requirements of forwarding level in this secti= on (e.g. filtering, dampening mechanism, cryptographic capabilities, ...). = Only a single reference in following section (2.6.2) to this section. Penultimate paragraph, last sentence: I do not know the word "vigalence". = You maybe mean "vigilance" Section 2.6.2, last paragraph, 3rd sentence: closing brace is missing. Section 2.6.4 text style: the abbreviation CC-CV is not described, but RDI (Remote Defect= Indication) is. Section 3: Q#34 and Q#35 style: in other parts of section 3, the different conformance= questions where listed as separate question items. But Q#34 and Q#35 conta= ins multiple questions. Section 4: T#23: replace "EI" with "EL" Style: in section 4, DoS and OAM have different "headlines" ("DoS protectio= n" and "OAM Capabilities and Performance") whereas in section 3, DoS and OA= M are under single headline ("OAM and DoS Protection"). Sorry for the required extended review time. Regards Thomas > -----Original Message----- > From: Loa Andersson [mailto:loa@pi.nu] > Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 9:35 AM > To: Eric Osborne (eosborne); Gregory Mirsky; Thomas Nadeau; > Beckhaus, Thomas > Cc: draft-villamizar-mpls-forwarding@tools.ietf.org; > mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; Martin Vigoureux > Subject: MPLS-RT review of draft-villamizar-mpls-forwarding > > Eric, Greg, Tom and Thomas, > > You have been selected as an MPLS Review team reviewers for > draft-villamizar-mpls-forwarding-01.txt. > > Note to authors: You have been CC'd on this email so that you can know > that this review is going on. However, please do not review your own > document. > > Reviews should comment on whether the document is coherent, is it > useful (ie, is it likely to be actually useful in operational > networks), and is the document technically sound? We are interested > in knowing whether the document is ready to be considered for WG > adoption (ie, it doesn't have to be perfect at this point, > but should be > a good start). > > Reviews should be sent to the document authors, WG co-chairs and > secretary, and CC'd to the MPLS WG email list. If necessary, comments > may be sent privately to only the WG chairs. > > Are you able to review this draft by February 27, 2013? > I'd had a problem picking a good date, if you have problems meeting > February 27, please suggest another date. > > > > Thanks, Loa > (as MPLS WG chair) > -- > > > Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com > MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu > Huawei Technologies (consult) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 > From adrian@olddog.co.uk Tue Mar 5 06:42:17 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 430C721F899E for ; Tue, 5 Mar 2013 06:42:17 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.601 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.002, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ozH5b29mZ5+Q for ; Tue, 5 Mar 2013 06:42:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from asmtp3.iomartmail.com (asmtp3.iomartmail.com [62.128.201.159]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3F0221F8994 for ; Tue, 5 Mar 2013 06:42:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from asmtp3.iomartmail.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by asmtp3.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r25EgEna009875; Tue, 5 Mar 2013 14:42:14 GMT Received: from 950129200 (089144192117.atnat0001.highway.a1.net [89.144.192.117]) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp3.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r25EgBYT009828 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Tue, 5 Mar 2013 14:42:13 GMT From: "Adrian Farrel" To: "'Loa Andersson'" References: <00ee01ce18f6$c2a185f0$47e491d0$@olddog.co.uk> <5135B791.6080708@pi.nu> In-Reply-To: <5135B791.6080708@pi.nu> Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2013 14:42:13 -0000 Message-ID: <000001ce19af$a22b4900$e681db00$@olddog.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQD61zngbnbyGOwhBiBZmMUpTsN5XAHx7bKOmi4eVHA= Content-Language: en-gb Cc: mpls@ietf.org, draft-ietf-mpls-tp-ring-protection.all@tools.ietf.org Subject: Re: [mpls] AD review of draft-ietf-mpls-tp-ring-protection X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: adrian@olddog.co.uk List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2013 14:42:17 -0000 OK. Thanks for that. While I still don't understand the fixation with "I have to have my name on the front page" and while I note that the WG chairs appoint the editors of WG documents (there is no self-appointment), I will fold what you have written into the shepherd and AD write-ups in the hope that we can convince the RFC Editor to relax the rules for this I-D. Cheers, Adrian > -----Original Message----- > From: Loa Andersson [mailto:loa@pi.nu] > Sent: 05 March 2013 09:15 > To: adrian@olddog.co.uk > Cc: draft-ietf-mpls-tp-ring-protection.all@tools.ietf.org; mpls@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [mpls] AD review of draft-ietf-mpls-tp-ring-protection > > Adrian, > > Thanks for this review I think I'm in the position to answer > the question on the number of authors. > > Early 2010 we had 5 or 6 different drafts addressing "mpls-tp-ring- > protection" from one aspect or another. Most of these drafts had > 2 or maybe 3 different authors. > > The wg chairs took an initiative to discuss the possibilities to > merge all drafts into one. The discussion was partially succesful, > and all draft but one, were merged into a single document. Texts > from all drafts were merged into draft-weingarten-mpls-tp- > ring-protection (later to be adopted as the working group draft > draft-ietf-mpls-tp-ring-protection. > > The number of authors on the first page reflect text contributions > made to the drafts that were merged. > > /Loa > > On 2013-03-04 17:38, Adrian Farrel wrote: > > Hi authors of draft-ietf-mpls-tp-ring-protection, > > > > I have conducted my usual review of your document in response to the > > publication request received from the working group. The purpose of > > my review is to find and resolve issues that might otherwise be found > > later in the process (IETF last call, IESG review, RFC Editor > > processing) and which might slow down the progress of the document or > > obscure other issues. > > > > Can I begin by saying that this document is much clearer and better > > structured than the version I reviewed some time ago in the working > > group. Thanks for all of the work that has gone into it. > > > > Although I found the description of protection for p2mp LSPs became > > quite complex, I cannot see a way to make it clearer and more direct. > > I suspect it is of the nature of the subject that the material has to > > be a bit convoluted. In practice, you have used simple words and a > > logical progression, so there is probably nothing further to be done. > > > > I did find a number of fairly small editorial issues and questions > > that I would like you to handle before we move on. I will put the > > document into "Revised I-D needed" state, but please note that all > > of my comments are open for discussion. > > > > Thanks again for the work, > > Adrian > > > > --- > > > > Why are there eight authors on the front page? > > Did all authors contribute equally to the document with some special > > reason why they all need to be named on the front page? > > If so, I need to understand the circumstances to defend them to the RFC > > Editor. > > If not, can you please split the list into: > > Editors > > - appear on the front page > > - listed in the Authors' Addresses section > > Contributing Authors > > - not on the font page > > - listed in the Contributors section > > > > --- > > > > In Section 1 > > > > This document proposes a set of basic mechanisms that could be used > > for the protection of the data flows that traverse an MPLS-TP ring. > > These mechanisms are based on existing MPLS and MPLS-TP protection > > mechanisms. These mechanisms provide data flow protection due to any > > switching trigger within a reasonable time frame and optimize the > > criteria set out in [RFC5654], as summarized above. > > > > This seems to contradict the statement in the Abstract that this is an > > applicability of linear protection to a ring. > > > > Is this document a description of how you use LP in a ring, or does it > > describe new mechanisms? I think the former, in which case this para > > should probably read > > > > This document describes how a set of basic MPLS-TP linear protection > > mechanisms defined in [RFC6378] can be used to provide protection of > > the data flows that traverse an MPLS-TP ring. These mechanisms > > provide data flow protection in the event of any switching trigger > > within a reasonable time frame and optimize the criteria set out in > > [RFC5654], as summarized above. > > > > Additionally, I believe it would be helpful to state in the Abstract and > > in the Introduction that: > > > > This document defines no new protocol mechanisms or procedures. > > > > --- > > > > In Section 1.1, why do bullets 1 and 2 (the first of the so-numbered) > > include the possibility of traffic either ending at the egress node or > > continuing on beyond the ring, yet not specifically countenance traffic > > starting at the ingress node or originating outside the ring? > > > > Is there something special I am missing? > > > > --- > > > > In Section 1.1 bullet 3 you have: > > > > An operator command is issued to a specific ring node. > > > > I think a little more specificity is needed. For example, > > > > An operator command that changes the operational state of a node or > > a link, or specifically triggers a protection action is issued to a > > specific ring node. > > > > --- > > > > Should the last para of 1.1 actually be in 1.2? > > > > --- > > > > While Figure 2 can be (and is!) used to explain steering in Section 2.2, > > the figure is actually demonstrating SPMEs and as such is confusing. I > > think you need an additional figure to explain steering. It would look > > as: > > > > ======>/LSR\********/LSR\********/LSR\======> > > \_B_/########\_A_/########\_F_/ > > *@ @* > > *@ @* > > *@ @* > > _*@ ___ @*_ > > /LSR\********/LSR\********/LSR\ > > \_C_/@@@@@@@@\_D_/@@@@@@@@\_E_/ > > > > ===> connected LSP *** physical link > > ### working path @@@ alternate path > > > > Figure 2: Steering protection for P2P path > > > > --- > > > > Shouldn't Figures 3, 4 and 5 show "connected LSP" for comparison with > > other figures? > > > > --- > > > > Figure 5 is almost impossible to parse. It is not just the way it is > > drawn, but the lack of text that describes the figure using the terms > > expressed in the key. > > > > --- > > > > Section 2.4 says "(based on a ring with N nodes, assumed to be not more > > than 16)" > > > > Is there actually anything in this text that relies on that assumption? > > Do the mechanisms have problems for N > 16 ? > > > > --- > > > > I am curious as to why the optimisation for wrapping is presented in > > Section 3.1 for p2mp flows on the ring, but is not offered as an > > option for p2p flows for which it is equally applicable. > > > > --- > > > > The text in 3.1 that refers back to "normal" wrapping is suspect. > > > > This improved mechanism, which we call Ring Optimized Multipoint > > Wrapping (ROM-Wrapping), behaves much the same as classical wrapping. > > There is one difference - rather than configuring the protection LSP > > between the end nodes of a failed link (link protection) or between > > the upstream and downstream node of a failed node (node protection), > > the improved mechanism configures a protection p2mp LSP from the > > upstream (with respect to the failure) node and all egress nodes (for > > the particular LSP) downstream from the failure. > > > > I think that in wrapping in conventional transport networks, the > > protection LSP is not configured in the way you say. Instead, it exists > > as a complete ring. Only when a fault is detected (effectively breaking > > the protection ring) is the protection LSP terminated at the edges of > > the fault. > > > > Maybe your text is intending to talk about SPMEs? Maybe this back- > > reference is actually not necessary in this section that should describe > > what ROM-Wrapping does, not what it doesn't do. > > > > --- > > > > In section 3.1 you have introduced a new notation to indicate the > > ring-exits on the LSP. This is fine but: > > - you don't explain it > > - the notation conflicts with that which you carefully introduced for > > label stacks. > > > > --- > > > > Figure 7 is included in Section 3.2 but not referenced until 3.2.1. > > Should it be moved? > > > > --- > > > > In 3.2.1 please expand LIB > > > > --- > > > > Section 8 is a bit weak :-) > > I suppose there were too many people to list individually! > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > mpls mailing list > > mpls@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > > > > -- > > > Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com > Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu > Huawei Technologies (consult) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 From agmalis@gmail.com Tue Mar 5 07:15:13 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC4C821F881D for ; Tue, 5 Mar 2013 07:15:13 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.932 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.932 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, SARE_HTML_USL_OBFU=1.666] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UK3VGkCcpJk3 for ; Tue, 5 Mar 2013 07:15:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qe0-f53.google.com (mail-qe0-f53.google.com [209.85.128.53]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1605021F8884 for ; Tue, 5 Mar 2013 07:15:13 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qe0-f53.google.com with SMTP id cz11so4663732qeb.40 for ; Tue, 05 Mar 2013 07:15:12 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc:content-type; bh=JqKoqHwMuGJn2Zyqvs6Qxdvzvgcfw4pwiMq0PmqwEMo=; b=tz3Q4f9WSHEd43HeV+sUDlJGUUfM3Oc7FTKbJOaNpzdHIHjcGG89MK7pBOALom6Se7 eCc6K4wGWwabNXaBmv6mLMzPbQ2LH+hN7rmlNeYkU4VxtHi6n6mPaQOBrTSXwfKvLW4F AXr77AQZzIAh7T72AxjaT35rGe382hqRAPjIUY2mwj7y8Dm2j5b1fEsyPwSTSyeaNFYI e4zgW0I2u7gFEeWvsrBdbEBl3Z5ewmnyhhkouU1Whuj3ZSoj7qzrhs7H+3vzILur/hmP Iz+5i0elUQobG81WNZb02FuWf9E3G+VYOzJNEZ/La2sARIaCtCsqa93wgI/eDg996k3x dYbQ== X-Received: by 10.224.179.205 with SMTP id br13mr39878955qab.37.1362496512535; Tue, 05 Mar 2013 07:15:12 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.104.67 with HTTP; Tue, 5 Mar 2013 07:14:52 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <5135CA50.8060402@pi.nu> References: <5135CA50.8060402@pi.nu> From: "Andrew G. Malis" Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2013 09:14:52 -0600 Message-ID: To: Loa Andersson Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=485b397dcd5ba337d204d72ef0a8 Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" , draft-weingarten-mpls-smp-requirements@tools.ietf.org, "" Subject: Re: [mpls] poll to to see if we have support to make draft-weingarten-mpls-smp-requirements a working group document X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2013 15:15:13 -0000 --485b397dcd5ba337d204d72ef0a8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Absolutely support, all comments on this draft were resolved a while ago. Cheers, Andy On Tue, Mar 5, 2013 at 4:34 AM, Loa Andersson wrote: > Working Group, > > This is to start a two week poll on adopting > draft-weingarten-mpls-smp-**requirements-03 as an MPLS working > group document. > > Please send your comments (support/not support) to the mpls working > group mailing list (mpls at ietf.org). Please give a technical > motivation for your support/not support, especially if you think that > the document should not be adopted as a working group document. > > This poll ends March 20, 2013. > > There are no IPR claim against this document. > > The authors has stated on the working group mailing list > that they are not aware of any other IPR claims against this draft. > However if you are on the the mpls working group mailing list and > aware of IPR that relates to this draft, the time to disclose > this is now. > > /Loa > (mpls wg co-chair) > > -- > > > Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com > Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu > Huawei Technologies (consult) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 > ______________________________**_________________ > mpls mailing list > mpls@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/**listinfo/mpls > --485b397dcd5ba337d204d72ef0a8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Absolutely support,=A0 all comments on this draft wer= e resolved a while ago.

Cheers,
Andy



On Tue, Mar 5, 2013 at= 4:34 AM, Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu> wrote:
Working Group,

This is to start a two week poll on adopting
draft-weingarten-mpls-smp-requirements-03 as an MPLS working
group document.

Please send your comments (support/not support) to the mpls working
group mailing list (mpls at i= etf.org). Please give a technical
motivation for your support/not support, especially if you think that
the document should not be adopted as a working group document.

This poll ends March 20, 2013.

There are no IPR claim against this document.

The authors has stated on the working group mailing list
that they are not aware of any other IPR claims against this draft.
However if you are on the the mpls working group mailing list and
aware of IPR that relates to this draft, the time to disclose
this is now.

/Loa
(mpls wg co-chair)

--


Loa Andersson =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0email: loa@mail01.huawei.com
Senior MPLS Expert =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0loa@pi.nu
Huawei Technologies (consult) =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0phone: +46 739 81 21 = 64
_______________________________________________
mpls mailing list
mpls@ietf.org
ht= tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls

--485b397dcd5ba337d204d72ef0a8-- From jeongryoo@gmail.com Tue Mar 5 16:39:20 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1600D21F8510 for ; Tue, 5 Mar 2013 16:39:20 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ukIxwP8VyaVC for ; Tue, 5 Mar 2013 16:39:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-la0-x232.google.com (mail-la0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c03::232]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5469821F850E for ; Tue, 5 Mar 2013 16:39:19 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-la0-f50.google.com with SMTP id ec20so6850494lab.9 for ; Tue, 05 Mar 2013 16:39:18 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=+ihZDYErn2pEiVwRSqzAoyi30gVefEL41prBEElG1D0=; b=0RZbNAmLQAx9iRaAdmMcvevMi2uSDbPLA2o4OwSLsQ73ekq4EnKKI9HXCmFMTm2UuI EVRjr90QQlfBSORQYmYAz9ERLkh9mKji8YyhL3UOb86mxErxfQWXzWVELarXNenmiC90 8bbEF/hBM06Qimogh5fJP+241ZA2t8LuGiDUhyiqgrUOcQoxALohluVVkm9J0vUys14c IENaHsbrw/qsmXVyjBli3flLHqdjJATIngSqEpSb70FmNAfjAwdiFLLMDzvb5LjfqxQj azdoilfz68x+I/QWaOejkeBpNKa/bj+XqtwEVOudqBS9biMUOOO24dYM+5b/VeNb6N1+ i0wQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.152.105.38 with SMTP id gj6mr23055796lab.25.1362530358052; Tue, 05 Mar 2013 16:39:18 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.112.155.5 with HTTP; Tue, 5 Mar 2013 16:39:17 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <5135CA50.8060402@pi.nu> References: <5135CA50.8060402@pi.nu> Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2013 09:39:17 +0900 Message-ID: From: Jeong-dong Ryoo To: Loa Andersson Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" , draft-weingarten-mpls-smp-requirements@tools.ietf.org, "" Subject: Re: [mpls] poll to to see if we have support to make draft-weingarten-mpls-smp-requirements a working group document X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2013 00:39:20 -0000 Support! Jeong-dong 2013/3/5 Loa Andersson : > Working Group, > > This is to start a two week poll on adopting > draft-weingarten-mpls-smp-requirements-03 as an MPLS working > group document. > > Please send your comments (support/not support) to the mpls working > group mailing list (mpls at ietf.org). Please give a technical > motivation for your support/not support, especially if you think that > the document should not be adopted as a working group document. > > This poll ends March 20, 2013. > > There are no IPR claim against this document. > > The authors has stated on the working group mailing list > that they are not aware of any other IPR claims against this draft. > However if you are on the the mpls working group mailing list and > aware of IPR that relates to this draft, the time to disclose > this is now. > > /Loa > (mpls wg co-chair) > > -- > > > Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com > Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu > Huawei Technologies (consult) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 > _______________________________________________ > mpls mailing list > mpls@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls From aldrin.ietf@gmail.com Tue Mar 5 16:54:02 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74DCA11E80A5 for ; Tue, 5 Mar 2013 16:54:02 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tZD4jjG9ejFv for ; Tue, 5 Mar 2013 16:54:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pb0-f47.google.com (mail-pb0-f47.google.com [209.85.160.47]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 019AA11E80A3 for ; Tue, 5 Mar 2013 16:54:01 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pb0-f47.google.com with SMTP id rp2so5236537pbb.20 for ; Tue, 05 Mar 2013 16:54:01 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date :cc:content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to:x-mailer; bh=Pgp8txRsM5lQie3qziPX26ewWX/oyp1BDCC3TV/2698=; b=yNNUG6d01aJROIBGKgHu4WqrExIS0Q3ujnxzslAMPA0v7lKOGNDcT3GkR2XjYCaTy3 acAudhIZRDW6+bNxesQbncadGd1xZfibAHOreTMUXb8wP87axOeAznMfe9VBmdSn8kvt LKGjRuHY03UFE5ULtJ7s9VfX31sqH4E3gpaW3pkt1odhHrNXunqNcedJ2fdoGnvRYwUU e7z1NQ0AfKmbFjr31WMHla00DPWpbFsFf/kSAwDnX2y5OXTVvoL/Sjs3WiXwpGPsnYAQ itWCs1nWOl+PyhmgYoZL7tSMhsy5vKW5JKZ0wLL02FORRJTN40ilGmBuD4QrW9m19EVm TKkw== X-Received: by 10.68.26.234 with SMTP id o10mr41273092pbg.211.1362531241637; Tue, 05 Mar 2013 16:54:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.5] (c-98-248-237-85.hsd1.ca.comcast.net. [98.248.237.85]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id tm1sm28862806pbc.11.2013.03.05.16.54.00 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 05 Mar 2013 16:54:00 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.2 \(1499\)) From: Sam Aldrin In-Reply-To: <5135CA50.8060402@pi.nu> Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2013 16:53:58 -0800 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <96A8767B-8161-4811-ACF7-B9E6CAE68E4A@gmail.com> References: <5135CA50.8060402@pi.nu> To: Loa Andersson X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1499) Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" , draft-weingarten-mpls-smp-requirements@tools.ietf.org, "" Subject: Re: [mpls] poll to to see if we have support to make draft-weingarten-mpls-smp-requirements a working group document X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2013 00:54:02 -0000 Support (co-author of the draft) -sam On Mar 5, 2013, at 2:34 AM, Loa Andersson wrote: > Working Group, > > This is to start a two week poll on adopting > draft-weingarten-mpls-smp-requirements-03 as an MPLS working > group document. > > Please send your comments (support/not support) to the mpls working > group mailing list (mpls at ietf.org). Please give a technical > motivation for your support/not support, especially if you think that > the document should not be adopted as a working group document. > > This poll ends March 20, 2013. > > There are no IPR claim against this document. > > The authors has stated on the working group mailing list > that they are not aware of any other IPR claims against this draft. > However if you are on the the mpls working group mailing list and > aware of IPR that relates to this draft, the time to disclose > this is now. > > /Loa > (mpls wg co-chair) > > -- > > > Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com > Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu > Huawei Technologies (consult) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 From ping@pingpan.org Tue Mar 5 17:08:21 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBAF611E80D3 for ; Tue, 5 Mar 2013 17:08:21 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.976 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.976 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id A8POAD+Ogw6l for ; Tue, 5 Mar 2013 17:08:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from exprod7og107.obsmtp.com (exprod7og107.obsmtp.com [64.18.2.167]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id CDA4911E80D2 for ; Tue, 5 Mar 2013 17:08:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-we0-f200.google.com ([74.125.82.200]) (using TLSv1) by exprod7ob107.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKUTaXBAGyqEKuTuO3BCoeEFow0Oe+xyy5@postini.com; Tue, 05 Mar 2013 17:08:20 PST Received: by mail-we0-f200.google.com with SMTP id d7so9166996wer.3 for ; Tue, 05 Mar 2013 17:08:20 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:x-received:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=doPaz7MdgMIoVBFnyFmmGbEAfyhacW+c+gjIbcS6pZ0=; b=D1+ksetjd3zw8/LjJndXxHt5dubjlSyE2cGvPP5nn4LgsIEF3ufGnZybqwL5u3BI3j eXx239rIfc20T/ebuLE75zOxsQVa6FbGLHVJF9bBbbbHKwa9UHXP3uVpQ56EmD5n2XFo udePFhLzIB5CeY8ktb6OCDGoDYdrx/3JfEwsEaMVivx6YX2e5yamNwxptQXnPEDSsL7Z 14K7kYOCOesFaNRwEBaiGpw9MQwFPPOyzJw4+HjLOtau8Osja6clI/VFd9JKd+duBdwj 1Q/6NYrw3M0Fe1kEnOeB73wP0Yf5eDBZkuQMiHdeBL8AJOmwnaD1er5RbuSSihyJUlTS +6bw== X-Received: by 10.180.92.129 with SMTP id cm1mr22677260wib.10.1362532100377; Tue, 05 Mar 2013 17:08:20 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.180.92.129 with SMTP id cm1mr22677247wib.10.1362532100238; Tue, 05 Mar 2013 17:08:20 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.194.82.10 with HTTP; Tue, 5 Mar 2013 17:07:40 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <96A8767B-8161-4811-ACF7-B9E6CAE68E4A@gmail.com> References: <5135CA50.8060402@pi.nu> <96A8767B-8161-4811-ACF7-B9E6CAE68E4A@gmail.com> From: Ping Pan Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2013 17:07:40 -0800 Message-ID: To: Sam Aldrin Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d043c7d14d48fd204d737393f X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnAvvQARGjD4CWylJR77CXIpKdt3EHpJnHr8bEgwmKiCTGUN29XnzC8c3KDGvWBzlkAFDa0CZ4fGCI2jJLzgTgQH3giwM6pUqCNtRG7Jt2tx255vBGSpIkhJse+M7WONLLvnjR6+5/Mybvdc1a7ceJQfC/S8Q== Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" , "" , draft-weingarten-mpls-smp-requirements@tools.ietf.org Subject: Re: [mpls] poll to to see if we have support to make draft-weingarten-mpls-smp-requirements a working group document X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2013 01:08:21 -0000 --f46d043c7d14d48fd204d737393f Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 +1 On Tue, Mar 5, 2013 at 4:53 PM, Sam Aldrin wrote: > Support (co-author of the draft) > > -sam > On Mar 5, 2013, at 2:34 AM, Loa Andersson wrote: > > > Working Group, > > > > This is to start a two week poll on adopting > > draft-weingarten-mpls-smp-requirements-03 as an MPLS working > > group document. > > > > Please send your comments (support/not support) to the mpls working > > group mailing list (mpls at ietf.org). Please give a technical > > motivation for your support/not support, especially if you think that > > the document should not be adopted as a working group document. > > > > This poll ends March 20, 2013. > > > > There are no IPR claim against this document. > > > > The authors has stated on the working group mailing list > > that they are not aware of any other IPR claims against this draft. > > However if you are on the the mpls working group mailing list and > > aware of IPR that relates to this draft, the time to disclose > > this is now. > > > > /Loa > > (mpls wg co-chair) > > > > -- > > > > > > Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com > > Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu > > Huawei Technologies (consult) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 > > _______________________________________________ > mpls mailing list > mpls@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > --f46d043c7d14d48fd204d737393f Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable +1

On Tue, Mar 5, 2013 at 4:53 PM, Sam Al= drin <aldrin.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:
Support (co-author of the draft)

-sam
On Mar 5, 2013, at 2:= 34 AM, Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu> wro= te:

> Working Group,
>
> This is to start a two week poll on adopting
> draft-weingarten-mpls-smp-requirements-03 as an MPLS working
> group document.
>
> Please send your comments (support/not support) to the mpls working > group mailing list (mpls at ietf.org). Please give a technical
> motivation for your support/not support, especially if you think that<= br> > the document should not be adopted as a working group document.
>
> This poll ends March 20, 2013.
>
> There are no IPR claim against this document.
>
> The authors has stated on the working group mailing list
> that they are not aware of any other IPR claims against this draft. > However if you are on the the mpls working group mailing list and
> aware of IPR that relates to this draft, the time to disclose
> this is now.
>
> /Loa
> (mpls wg co-chair)
>
> --
>
>
> Loa Andersson =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0email: = loa@mail01.huawei.com
> Senior MPLS Expert =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0loa@p= i.nu
> Huawei Technologies (consult) =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0phone: +46 739 81 21 6= 4

_______________________________________________
mpls mailing list
mpls@ietf.org
ht= tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls

--f46d043c7d14d48fd204d737393f-- From zali@cisco.com Tue Mar 5 17:21:18 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98D5621F85B4 for ; Tue, 5 Mar 2013 17:21:18 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aeRUuSxMhI1S for ; Tue, 5 Mar 2013 17:21:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from rcdn-iport-5.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-5.cisco.com [173.37.86.76]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33DEA21F85B3 for ; Tue, 5 Mar 2013 17:21:17 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=12320; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1362532877; x=1363742477; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:in-reply-to: mime-version; bh=iHTFMQhHYM1pTILYM4Y5zzzIBUPCc2mKuOb248yYLSE=; b=Krr4UrUSwvdEsW3kz16FmzHFxDvvJG3+GU2dzsbQzG8pMrtMmrjDlLxp WUFZn3egch+iP0chz4cS46R2oRZLiscl7Z5Ef+yIkM2Mg0xWYBiFAZNCw gL31j/BEQSWsvTFnXiXzOplI1zHtYRA3e6KV/xNDT7dPjlwlCuDVMcplj U=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgEFALeZNlGtJV2c/2dsb2JhbABEhFrAFYFyFnOCKwEBAQQtTBIBCBEDAQILHTkUCQgBAQQBDQUIiAuuDI1+jUOBGSAGCweCX2EDpziCew2CJw X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.84,791,1355097600"; d="scan'208,217";a="184177730" Received: from rcdn-core-5.cisco.com ([173.37.93.156]) by rcdn-iport-5.cisco.com with ESMTP; 06 Mar 2013 01:21:07 +0000 Received: from xhc-rcd-x01.cisco.com (xhc-rcd-x01.cisco.com [173.37.183.75]) by rcdn-core-5.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r261L7Fh023357 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Mar 2013 01:21:07 GMT Received: from xmb-rcd-x14.cisco.com ([169.254.4.51]) by xhc-rcd-x01.cisco.com ([173.37.183.75]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.004; Tue, 5 Mar 2013 19:21:07 -0600 From: "Zafar Ali (zali)" To: Gregory Mirsky , "Mike Taillon (mtaillon)" , "Tarek Saad (tsaad)" , "Rakesh Gandhi (rgandhi)" Thread-Topic: Comments to draft-tsaad-mpls-rsvpte-bidir-lsp-fastreroute Thread-Index: Ac4VQ+OCxxyrUJAYQMyG7ImsIECpXQEzVvYA Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2013 01:21:06 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF11206B373@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.2.3.120616 x-originating-ip: [10.86.254.245] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_B6585D85A128FD47857D0FD58D8120D3B6357Bxmbrcdx14ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] Comments to draft-tsaad-mpls-rsvpte-bidir-lsp-fastreroute X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2013 01:21:18 -0000 --_000_B6585D85A128FD47857D0FD58D8120D3B6357Bxmbrcdx14ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Gregory- Many thanks for your detailed review. Please see response in-line. Thanks Regards =85 Zafar and co-authors. From: Gregory Mirsky > Date: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 6:40 PM To: "Mike Taillon (mtaillon)" >, "Tarek Saad (tsaad)" >, "Rakesh= Gandhi (rgandhi)" >, zali > Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" > Subject: Comments to draft-tsaad-mpls-rsvpte-bidir-lsp-fastreroute Dear Authors, et al., Please find my comments to this document below: * As noted in the Introduction, bi-directional co-routed LSP can be sig= naled in context of GMPLS model. I recall that it was agreed that all work = on GMPLS constructs will be conducted within CCAMP WG. This is correct and this is why we corrected the name of the draft as draft= -tsaad-ccamp-rsvpte-bidir-lsp-fastreroute-00 and submitted it for CCAMP. Th= e MPLS WG version of the draft is suppose to expire in its due time. We wil= l not refresh draft-tsaad-mpls-rsvpte-bidir-lsp-fastreroute. * I think that scenario described in the second paragraph of the Introd= uction section is not correct. I believe that protection path(s) for bi-dir= ectional co-routed LSP must be bi-directional and co-routed as well. Thus I= don't see it possible that there will be "asymmetry of paths" after protec= tion switchover. IMO, protection path must have the same properties as work= ing path, i.e. be bi-directional co-routed LSP. The statement "protection path(s) for bi-directional co-routed LSP must be = bi-directional and co-routed as well" is very restrictive. Service Provider= s should be able to share backups between GMPLS bi-directional as well as M= PLS Unidir tunnels. Nonetheless, the draft addresses both uni-directional a= s well as bi-dir backup tunnels. * Asymmetry of paths may exist if working path is bi-directional associ= ated LSP but such construct is not in scope of this document and I believe = that this case fully covered by RFC 4090. The scope of the document is GMPLS signaled (PSC) LSPs. * Problem that you alledge in the third paragraph should not exist in G= MPLS with use of ASSOCIATION object (RFC 6780) Like mentioned above, the scope of the document is GMPLS signaled (PSC) LSP= s. * I'd point that local protection with node protection for bi-direction= al co-routed LSP turns into a case of segment protection with OAM being ran= between PLRs and PSC (RFC 6378) coordinating switchover by exchanging mess= ages over protection segment. Service Providers should be able to also use (traditional) local link failu= re detection mechanisms for triggering FRR (node as well as link) protectio= n. Nonetheless, the draft does not preclude use of PSC or any other failure= detection mechanism. Regards, Greg --_000_B6585D85A128FD47857D0FD58D8120D3B6357Bxmbrcdx14ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-ID: <3C1F232011D7E747B94C51D9609C0018@cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Gregory- 

Many thanks for your detailed review. Please see response in-line.&nbs= p;

Thanks

Regards =85 Zafar and co-authors. 

From: Gregory Mirsky <gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com> Date: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 = 6:40 PM
To: "Mike Taillon (mtaillon)&q= uot; <mtaillon@cisco.com>, = "Tarek Saad (tsaad)" <tsaad= @cisco.com>, "Rakesh Gandhi (rgandhi)" <rgandhi@cisco.com>, zali <zali@cisco.com>
Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" <mpls@i= etf.org>
Subject: Comments to draft-tsaad-mp= ls-rsvpte-bidir-lsp-fastreroute

Dear Authors, et al.,
Please find my comments to this document below:
  • As noted in the Introduction, bi-directional co-routed LSP can be signa= led in context of GMPLS model. I recall that it was agreed that all work on= GMPLS constructs will be conducted within CCAMP WG.

This is correct and this is why we= corrected the name of the draft as draft-tsaad-ccamp-rsvpte-bidir-lsp= -fastreroute-00 and submitted it for CCAMP. The MPLS WG version of the draf= t is suppose to expire in its due time. We will not refresh draft-tsaad-mpls-rsvpte-bidir-lsp-fastrero= ute. 


  • I think that scenario described in the second paragraph of the Introduc= tion section is not correct. I believe that protection path(s) for bi-direc= tional co-routed LSP must be bi-directional and co-routed as well. Thus I d= on't see it possible that there will be "asymmetry of paths" after protection switchover. IMO, p= rotection path must have the same properties as working path, i.e. be bi-di= rectional co-routed LSP.

The statement "protection path(s) for bi-directional co-routed LS= P must be bi-directional and co-routed as well" is very restricti= ve. Service Providers should be able to share backups between GMPLS bi-dire= ctional as well as MPLS Unidir tunnels. Nonetheless, the draft addresses both uni-directional as well as bi-dir backup  tu= nnels. 

  • Asymmetry of paths may exist if working path is bi-directional associat= ed LSP but such construct is not in scope of this document and I believe th= at this case fully covered by RFC 4090.

The scope of the document is GMPLS signaled (PSC) LSPs.  

  • Problem that you alledge in the third paragraph should not exist in GMP= LS with use of ASSOCIATION object (RFC 6780)

Like mentioned abo= ve, the scope of the document is GMPLS signaled (PSC) LSPs.  

  • I'd point that local protection with node protection for bi-directional= co-routed LSP turns into a case of segment protection with OAM being ran b= etween PLRs and PSC (RFC 6378) coordinating switchover by exchanging messag= es over protection segment.

Service Providers&= nbsp;should be able to also use (traditional) local link failure detection = mechanisms for triggering FRR (node as well as link) protection. Nonetheles= s, the draft does not preclude use of PSC or any other failure detection mechanism. 

 
        Regards,
           &nbs= p;    Greg
 
 --_000_B6585D85A128FD47857D0FD58D8120D3B6357Bxmbrcdx14ciscocom_-- From mach.chen@huawei.com Tue Mar 5 18:18:00 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6125F11E80D5 for ; Tue, 5 Mar 2013 18:18:00 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.034 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.034 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.565, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Bx9rzv5RQ+IW for ; Tue, 5 Mar 2013 18:17:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A99511E80E3 for ; Tue, 5 Mar 2013 18:17:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml203-edg.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.5-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id APB53554; Wed, 06 Mar 2013 02:17:54 +0000 (GMT) Received: from LHREML401-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.240) by lhreml203-edg.huawei.com (172.18.7.221) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.323.7; Wed, 6 Mar 2013 02:17:41 +0000 Received: from SZXEML412-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.82.67.91) by lhreml401-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.240) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.323.7; Wed, 6 Mar 2013 02:17:51 +0000 Received: from szxeml558-mbs.china.huawei.com ([169.254.8.4]) by szxeml412-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.82.67.91]) with mapi id 14.01.0323.007; Wed, 6 Mar 2013 10:17:39 +0800 From: Mach Chen To: Loa Andersson , "mpls@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [mpls] poll to to see if we have support to make draft-weingarten-mpls-smp-requirements a working group document Thread-Index: AQHOGY0ZiYa60ZYed0eFKLAvyuZYoJiX7lUg Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2013 02:17:39 +0000 Message-ID: References: <5135CA50.8060402@pi.nu> In-Reply-To: <5135CA50.8060402@pi.nu> Accept-Language: en-US, zh-CN Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.96.176] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Cc: "" , "draft-weingarten-mpls-smp-requirements@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] poll to to see if we have support to make draft-weingarten-mpls-smp-requirements a working group document X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2013 02:18:00 -0000 Support. Best regards, Mach > -----Original Message----- > From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of L= oa > Andersson > Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2013 6:35 PM > To: mpls@ietf.org > Cc: ; > draft-weingarten-mpls-smp-requirements@tools.ietf.org > Subject: [mpls] poll to to see if we have support to make > draft-weingarten-mpls-smp-requirements a working group document >=20 > Working Group, >=20 > This is to start a two week poll on adopting > draft-weingarten-mpls-smp-requirements-03 as an MPLS working > group document. >=20 > Please send your comments (support/not support) to the mpls working > group mailing list (mpls at ietf.org). Please give a technical > motivation for your support/not support, especially if you think that > the document should not be adopted as a working group document. >=20 > This poll ends March 20, 2013. >=20 > There are no IPR claim against this document. >=20 > The authors has stated on the working group mailing list > that they are not aware of any other IPR claims against this draft. > However if you are on the the mpls working group mailing list and > aware of IPR that relates to this draft, the time to disclose > this is now. >=20 > /Loa > (mpls wg co-chair) >=20 > -- >=20 >=20 > Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com > Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu > Huawei Technologies (consult) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 > _______________________________________________ > mpls mailing list > mpls@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls From xuxiaohu@huawei.com Tue Mar 5 18:38:35 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47B7A11E80A3 for ; Tue, 5 Mar 2013 18:38:35 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.057 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.057 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, CN_BODY_35=0.339, MIME_BASE64_TEXT=1.753, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wkgsBiDCa2Yq for ; Tue, 5 Mar 2013 18:38:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3870121F858C for ; Tue, 5 Mar 2013 18:38:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml204-edg.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.5-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id AQI67697; Wed, 06 Mar 2013 02:38:32 +0000 (GMT) Received: from LHREML404-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.218) by lhreml204-edg.china.huawei.com (172.18.7.223) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.323.7; Wed, 6 Mar 2013 02:37:56 +0000 Received: from SZXEML417-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.82.67.156) by lhreml404-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.218) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.323.7; Wed, 6 Mar 2013 10:38:06 +0800 Received: from SZXEML525-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.81]) by szxeml417-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.82.67.156]) with mapi id 14.01.0323.007; Wed, 6 Mar 2013 10:37:59 +0800 From: Xuxiaohu To: Loa Andersson , "mpls@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [mpls] poll to to see if we have support to make draft-weingarten-mpls-smp-requirements a working group document Thread-Index: AQHOGY0iUHhK3Yd9MEyG1cSVpfo1gpiX89Fw Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2013 02:37:59 +0000 Message-ID: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE075AFFAC@szxeml525-mbx.china.huawei.com> References: <5135CA50.8060402@pi.nu> In-Reply-To: <5135CA50.8060402@pi.nu> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.98.130] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Cc: "" , "draft-weingarten-mpls-smp-requirements@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] poll to to see if we have support to make draft-weingarten-mpls-smp-requirements a working group document X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2013 02:38:35 -0000 U3VwcG9ydC4NCg0KWGlhb2h1DQoNCj4gLS0tLS3Tyrz+1K28/i0tLS0tDQo+ILeivP7IyzogbXBs cy1ib3VuY2VzQGlldGYub3JnIFttYWlsdG86bXBscy1ib3VuY2VzQGlldGYub3JnXSC0+rHtIExv YQ0KPiBBbmRlcnNzb24NCj4gt6LLzcqxvOQ6IDIwMTPE6jPUwjXI1SAxODozNQ0KPiDK1bz+yMs6 IG1wbHNAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCj4gs63LzTogPG1wbHMtYWRzQHRvb2xzLmlldGYub3JnPjsNCj4gZHJh ZnQtd2VpbmdhcnRlbi1tcGxzLXNtcC1yZXF1aXJlbWVudHNAdG9vbHMuaWV0Zi5vcmcNCj4g1vfM 4jogW21wbHNdIHBvbGwgdG8gdG8gc2VlIGlmIHdlIGhhdmUgc3VwcG9ydCB0byBtYWtlDQo+IGRy YWZ0LXdlaW5nYXJ0ZW4tbXBscy1zbXAtcmVxdWlyZW1lbnRzIGEgd29ya2luZyBncm91cCBkb2N1 bWVudA0KPiANCj4gV29ya2luZyBHcm91cCwNCj4gDQo+IFRoaXMgaXMgdG8gc3RhcnQgYSB0d28g d2VlayBwb2xsIG9uIGFkb3B0aW5nDQo+IGRyYWZ0LXdlaW5nYXJ0ZW4tbXBscy1zbXAtcmVxdWly ZW1lbnRzLTAzIGFzIGFuIE1QTFMgd29ya2luZw0KPiBncm91cCBkb2N1bWVudC4NCj4gDQo+IFBs ZWFzZSBzZW5kIHlvdXIgY29tbWVudHMgKHN1cHBvcnQvbm90IHN1cHBvcnQpIHRvIHRoZSBtcGxz IHdvcmtpbmcNCj4gZ3JvdXAgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0IChtcGxzIGF0IGlldGYub3JnKS4gUGxlYXNl IGdpdmUgYSB0ZWNobmljYWwNCj4gbW90aXZhdGlvbiBmb3IgeW91ciBzdXBwb3J0L25vdCBzdXBw b3J0LCBlc3BlY2lhbGx5IGlmIHlvdSB0aGluayB0aGF0DQo+IHRoZSBkb2N1bWVudCBzaG91bGQg bm90IGJlIGFkb3B0ZWQgYXMgYSB3b3JraW5nIGdyb3VwIGRvY3VtZW50Lg0KPiANCj4gVGhpcyBw b2xsIGVuZHMgTWFyY2ggMjAsIDIwMTMuDQo+IA0KPiBUaGVyZSBhcmUgbm8gSVBSIGNsYWltIGFn YWluc3QgdGhpcyBkb2N1bWVudC4NCj4gDQo+IFRoZSBhdXRob3JzIGhhcyBzdGF0ZWQgb24gdGhl IHdvcmtpbmcgZ3JvdXAgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQo+IHRoYXQgdGhleSBhcmUgbm90IGF3YXJlIG9m IGFueSBvdGhlciBJUFIgY2xhaW1zIGFnYWluc3QgdGhpcyBkcmFmdC4NCj4gSG93ZXZlciBpZiB5 b3UgYXJlIG9uIHRoZSB0aGUgbXBscyB3b3JraW5nIGdyb3VwIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdCBhbmQNCj4g YXdhcmUgb2YgSVBSIHRoYXQgcmVsYXRlcyB0byB0aGlzIGRyYWZ0LCB0aGUgdGltZSB0byBkaXNj bG9zZQ0KPiB0aGlzIGlzIG5vdy4NCj4gDQo+IC9Mb2ENCj4gKG1wbHMgd2cgY28tY2hhaXIpDQo+ IA0KPiAtLQ0KPiANCj4gDQo+IExvYSBBbmRlcnNzb24gICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICBl bWFpbDogbG9hQG1haWwwMS5odWF3ZWkuY29tDQo+IFNlbmlvciBNUExTIEV4cGVydCAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgbG9hQHBpLm51DQo+IEh1YXdlaSBUZWNobm9sb2dpZXMgKGNvbnN1 bHQpICAgICAgICBwaG9uZTogKzQ2IDczOSA4MSAyMSA2NA0KPiBfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KPiBtcGxzIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdA0KPiBtcGxz QGlldGYub3JnDQo+IGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vbXBscw0K From david.i.allan@ericsson.com Tue Mar 5 18:52:17 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9314011E80A5 for ; Tue, 5 Mar 2013 18:52:17 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TFBbSITlTUB2 for ; Tue, 5 Mar 2013 18:52:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from usevmg20.ericsson.net (usevmg20.ericsson.net [198.24.6.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFED121F85F3 for ; Tue, 5 Mar 2013 18:52:16 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: c618062d-b7f0d6d00000097e-70-5136af603f94 Received: from EUSAAHC005.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [147.117.188.87]) by usevmg20.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 58.24.02430.06FA6315; Wed, 6 Mar 2013 03:52:16 +0100 (CET) Received: from EUSAAMB105.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.122]) by EUSAAHC005.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.87]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.004; Tue, 5 Mar 2013 21:52:08 -0500 From: David Allan I To: Loa Andersson , "mpls@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [mpls] poll to to see if we have support to make draft-weingarten-mpls-smp-requirements a working group document Thread-Index: AQHOGY0YhqQarGjA3EGcKxhLUTvxwJiX97hQ Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2013 02:52:07 +0000 Message-ID: References: <5135CA50.8060402@pi.nu> In-Reply-To: <5135CA50.8060402@pi.nu> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [147.117.188.134] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFrrLLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyuXRPuG7CerNAg0cTZSxu39zDavFv7hxm iyUvO9gtbi1dyerA4rFkyU8mj1nT29g8vlz+zBbAHMVlk5Kak1mWWqRvl8CVMefbc/aC5bwV M459ZmxgPMPVxcjJISFgIrGzdQkjhC0mceHeerYuRi4OIYEjjBId76YwQzjLGCX23jvGAlLF JmAgsef/F7AOEQE7iY2v/oHZzALrGCWur5PtYuTgEBaol7h/vBikV0SggVFi5eafbBD1RhKf 7n4Hm8MioCIxs/kBmM0r4C2xZvcWVhBbCCj+6Fcn2ExOAVWJKW9bmUFsRqDrvp9awwSxS1zi 1pP5TBBXC0gs2XOeGcIWlXj5+B8rhK0sseTJfhaIeh2JBbs/sUHY2hLLFr5mhtgrKHFy5hOW CYxis5CMnYWkZRaSlllIWhYwsqxi5CgtTi3LTTcy2MQIjKJjEmy6Oxj3vLQ8xCjNwaIkzhvk eiFASCA9sSQ1OzW1ILUovqg0J7X4ECMTB6dUA2PO79JGhR+STWZbxFSaeW3MfCLyYkwPFuzS PPhh4lvp+bMXtmfeZXH7vk4m7VHBrJsreX681nzx7s8/jSm6FtIrVqyOKNrtm3fgBzeX+O47 TF9bYssf9KZrhN5ODDJvq3iymF0m0s3B79T19LxrT953a5mFc3kz+j5Kv3SI+8ZM9fmKiz7u 0FNiKc5INNRiLipOBACkVhpEcAIAAA== Cc: "" , "draft-weingarten-mpls-smp-requirements@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] poll to to see if we have support to make draft-weingarten-mpls-smp-requirements a working group document X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2013 02:52:17 -0000 Support (as contributing author)... This reflects a need to actually codify what SMP was out to achieve...and i= s a pre-requisite to any future work. Cheers Dave=20 -----Original Message----- From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Loa= Andersson Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2013 4:35 AM To: mpls@ietf.org Cc: ; draft-weingarten-mpls-smp-requirements@tools= .ietf.org Subject: [mpls] poll to to see if we have support to make draft-weingarten-= mpls-smp-requirements a working group document Working Group, This is to start a two week poll on adopting draft-weingarten-mpls-smp-requirements-03 as an MPLS working group document= . Please send your comments (support/not support) to the mpls working group m= ailing list (mpls at ietf.org). Please give a technical motivation for your= support/not support, especially if you think that the document should not = be adopted as a working group document. This poll ends March 20, 2013. There are no IPR claim against this document. The authors has stated on the working group mailing list that they are not = aware of any other IPR claims against this draft. However if you are on the the mpls working group mailing list and aware of = IPR that relates to this draft, the time to disclose this is now. /Loa (mpls wg co-chair) --=20 Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu Huawei Technologies (consult) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 _______________________________________________ mpls mailing list mpls@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls From gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com Tue Mar 5 19:05:58 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D11011E80EA for ; Tue, 5 Mar 2013 19:05:58 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.001, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GOhc0C8GeCoY for ; Tue, 5 Mar 2013 19:05:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from usevmg21.ericsson.net (usevmg21.ericsson.net [198.24.6.65]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97A8711E80A5 for ; Tue, 5 Mar 2013 19:05:57 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: c6180641-b7faf6d00000096b-01-5136b2949b1c Received: from EUSAAHC006.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [147.117.188.90]) by usevmg21.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id F8.D4.02411.492B6315; Wed, 6 Mar 2013 04:05:57 +0100 (CET) Received: from EUSAAMB103.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.120]) by EUSAAHC006.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.90]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.004; Tue, 5 Mar 2013 22:05:56 -0500 From: Gregory Mirsky To: Loa Andersson , "mpls@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: poll to to see if we have support to make draft-weingarten-mpls-smp-requirements a working group document Thread-Index: AQHOGY0UUa4NwVGj9EORKzpROCjZV5iX+9ng Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2013 03:05:56 +0000 Message-ID: <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF11206D1E0@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> References: <5135CA50.8060402@pi.nu> In-Reply-To: <5135CA50.8060402@pi.nu> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [147.117.188.135] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFnrBLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyuXRPlO7UTWaBBg+/81rcvrmH1eLf3DnM Fnd2fWG1WPKyg93i1tKVrA6sHq3P9rJ6LFnyk8lj1vQ2No8vlz+zBbBEcdmkpOZklqUW6dsl cGVMOHmPvaCJu2Lb0rnsDYznOLoYOTkkBEwk9q7ZxgJhi0lcuLeerYuRi0NI4AijxO8/Vxkh nGWMEp/W/WYFqWITMJJ4sbGHHcQWEbCT2PjqH1gRs8ALRolHB6+AFQkLVEj86JzDDFFUKXHl 1WIWCNtIomHtVDCbRUBFYsWJtWwgNq+At8TGJxPAhgoBxR/96mQEsTkFVCWmvG0Fm8MIdN73 U2uYQGxmAXGJW0/mM0GcLSCxZM95ZghbVOLl43+sELayxPc5j1gg6nUkFuz+xAZha0ssW/ia GWKvoMTJmU9YJjCKzUIydhaSlllIWmYhaVnAyLKKkaO0OLUsN93IcBMjMLaOSbA57mBc8Mny EKM0B4uSOG+o64UAIYH0xJLU7NTUgtSi+KLSnNTiQ4xMHJxSDYx8/ccrnspYaW1wCD5jtjVj qnHzmn/JrzP1zvGzV05/n6GZe33Dj6tX/nAbsbIeWsL8t/xe0otbWh0LG11vNh9Le7X6nZL6 jP0+b9ZLs39P3bnkgHBm6nPB7knbViUtLHOs7Yu8uGBPdkPL9Acbdp76KNbx6qbdZetUl8lf 0oXvhuYW3t3/b26OEktxRqKhFnNRcSIA82UtInsCAAA= Cc: "" , "draft-weingarten-mpls-smp-requirements@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] poll to to see if we have support to make draft-weingarten-mpls-smp-requirements a working group document X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2013 03:05:58 -0000 Support (co-author) Regards, Greg=20 -----Original Message----- From: Loa Andersson [mailto:loa@pi.nu]=20 Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2013 2:35 AM To: mpls@ietf.org Cc: ; draft-weingarten-mpls-smp-requirements@tools= .ietf.org; Martin Vigoureux Subject: poll to to see if we have support to make draft-weingarten-mpls-sm= p-requirements a working group document Working Group, This is to start a two week poll on adopting draft-weingarten-mpls-smp-requirements-03 as an MPLS working group document= . Please send your comments (support/not support) to the mpls working group m= ailing list (mpls at ietf.org). Please give a technical motivation for your= support/not support, especially if you think that the document should not = be adopted as a working group document. This poll ends March 20, 2013. There are no IPR claim against this document. The authors has stated on the working group mailing list that they are not = aware of any other IPR claims against this draft. However if you are on the the mpls working group mailing list and aware of = IPR that relates to this draft, the time to disclose this is now. /Loa (mpls wg co-chair) --=20 Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu Huawei Technologies (consult) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 From loa@pi.nu Tue Mar 5 22:58:19 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B510821F86BB for ; Tue, 5 Mar 2013 22:58:19 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.048 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.048 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, RDNS_NONE=0.1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aCqEsWFBsfKm for ; Tue, 5 Mar 2013 22:58:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.pi.nu (unknown [195.206.248.139]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C43521F86BA for ; Tue, 5 Mar 2013 22:58:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.104] (81-236-221-144-no93.tbcn.telia.com [81.236.221.144]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.pi.nu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 26246824AC; Wed, 6 Mar 2013 07:58:14 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <5136E90F.8060308@pi.nu> Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2013 07:58:23 +0100 From: Loa Andersson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130215 Thunderbird/17.0.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "mpls@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-applicability-label-adv@tools.ietf.org Subject: [mpls] working group last call on draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-applicability-label-adv X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2013 06:58:19 -0000 Working Group, this is to start a two week Working Group last call on draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-applicability-label-adv-01.txt. Please send your comments to the mpls working group mailing list (mpls@ietf.org). Please send both technical comments, and if you are happy with the document as is also indications of support. There are no IPR claims against this draft. The co-authors have earlier stated that they are not aware of any IPRs applicable to this draft. If anyone else in the working group are aware of IPRs claims against this draft, the time to disclose that is now. This working group last call will end on March 20, 2013. /Loa for the wg co-chairs -- Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu Huawei Technologies (consult) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 From wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com Tue Mar 5 23:04:40 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A893721F8479 for ; Tue, 5 Mar 2013 23:04:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.249 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.249 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id l0spfp-vvbqE for ; Tue, 5 Mar 2013 23:04:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from smail3.alcatel.fr (smail3.alcatel.fr [62.23.212.56]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED29E21F8464 for ; Tue, 5 Mar 2013 23:04:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from FRMRSSXCHHUB04.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com (FRMRSSXCHHUB04.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com [135.120.45.64]) by smail3.alcatel.fr (8.14.3/8.14.3/ICT) with ESMTP id r2674cx0025213 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NOT); Wed, 6 Mar 2013 08:04:38 +0100 Received: from FR712WXCHHUB03.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (135.239.2.74) by FRMRSSXCHHUB04.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com (135.120.45.64) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.3.213.0; Wed, 6 Mar 2013 08:04:37 +0100 Received: from FR712WXCHMBA14.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com ([169.254.6.200]) by FR712WXCHHUB03.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com ([135.239.2.74]) with mapi id 14.02.0247.003; Wed, 6 Mar 2013 08:04:37 +0100 From: "Henderickx, Wim (Wim)" To: Loa Andersson , "mpls@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [mpls] working group last call on draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-applicability-label-adv Thread-Index: AQHOGjjcIe49JICTDkeBu2JmAe3OPA== Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2013 07:04:36 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <5136E90F.8060308@pi.nu> Accept-Language: nl-BE, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.3.1.130117 x-originating-ip: [135.239.27.38] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <9B97FADEC7326C4ABDF47A072E24DA77@exchange.lucent.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.69 on 155.132.188.83 Cc: "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-applicability-label-adv@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] working group last call on draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-applicability-label-adv X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2013 07:04:40 -0000 support On 06/03/13 07:58, "Loa Andersson" wrote: >Working Group, > >this is to start a two week Working Group last call on >draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-applicability-label-adv-01.txt. > >Please send your comments to the mpls working group >mailing list (mpls@ietf.org). > >Please send both technical comments, and if you are happy >with the document as is also indications of support. > >There are no IPR claims against this draft. > >The co-authors have earlier stated that they are not aware >of any IPRs applicable to this draft. > >If anyone else in the working group are aware of IPRs claims against >this draft, the time to disclose that is now. > >This working group last call will end on March 20, 2013. > >/Loa >for the wg co-chairs > > > >--=20 > > >Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com >Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu >Huawei Technologies (consult) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 >_______________________________________________ >mpls mailing list >mpls@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls From jeff.tantsura@ericsson.com Tue Mar 5 23:07:36 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B13D21F850E for ; Tue, 5 Mar 2013 23:07:36 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RomkZFdwRuyx for ; Tue, 5 Mar 2013 23:07:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from usevmg20.ericsson.net (usevmg20.ericsson.net [198.24.6.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 573C421F8501 for ; Tue, 5 Mar 2013 23:07:35 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: c618062d-b7f0d6d00000097e-74-5136eb36a55e Received: from EUSAAHC004.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [147.117.188.84]) by usevmg20.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 6E.77.02430.63BE6315; Wed, 6 Mar 2013 08:07:34 +0100 (CET) Received: from EUSAAMB109.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.126]) by EUSAAHC004.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.84]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.004; Wed, 6 Mar 2013 02:07:34 -0500 From: Jeff Tantsura To: Loa Andersson Thread-Topic: [mpls] working group last call on draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-applicability-label-adv Thread-Index: AQHOGjgBjO6Yjpy1c0WVPzL6igHRUZiYPhw5 Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2013 07:07:33 +0000 Message-ID: References: <5136E90F.8060308@pi.nu> In-Reply-To: <5136E90F.8060308@pi.nu> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFrrILMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyuXRPiK7Za7NAg5b/+hZXD/YwWvybO4fZ 4vulJSwWt5auZHVg8Viy5CeTx6zpbWweXy5/ZgtgjuKySUnNySxLLdK3S+DKmLn2NkvBS66K tyv+sTYwruHoYuTkkBAwkXjdNokZwhaTuHBvPRuILSRwhFFi91PrLkYuIHsZo0THnOusIAk2 AQOJ/9+Os4DYIgKyEte2/WQCKWIWuM8osW3aTbBuYYEYiftdB1ghimIlzu48ywhhG0nM6P3P BGKzCKhITH1xDmwzr4C9xM+l36A2q0i0zlsGZnMKqEqsmH8KrJ4R6Lrvp9aA2cwC4hK3nsxn grhaQGLJnvNQH4hKvHz8jxWiRkdiwe5PbBC2tsSyha+hdglKnJz5hGUCo+gsJKNmIWmZhaRl FpKWBYwsqxg5SotTy3LTjQw2MQKj5ZgEm+4Oxj0vLQ8xSnOwKInzBrleCBASSE8sSc1OTS1I LYovKs1JLT7EyMTBKdXAuOHopk/X5+inyWxY1tK4fdH35s0zjiwsqg2MeOq35+3jpcwvxa79 mfifQeYHC5fQ0/fWvo+YxW/s/8rxbnnuWiXRCN+bpVYL5WvaqmwPe1r+Of845WL25zhLhwf1 HrHL/ervngz7Nv/5x8VHrMXy5rDVdq987jbpVKSlOftpm2kJad2+Sy+xVCuxFGckGmoxFxUn AgDwxDjoZAIAAA== Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-applicability-label-adv@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] working group last call on draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-applicability-label-adv X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2013 07:07:36 -0000 Hi Loa, I support this draft, with more and more application sharing the same LDP s= ession this document provides necessarily clarification on label advertisem= ent modes to be used. Regards, Jeff On Mar 5, 2013, at 22:58, "Loa Andersson" wrote: > Working Group, >=20 > this is to start a two week Working Group last call on > draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-applicability-label-adv-01.txt. >=20 > Please send your comments to the mpls working group > mailing list (mpls@ietf.org). >=20 > Please send both technical comments, and if you are happy > with the document as is also indications of support. >=20 > There are no IPR claims against this draft. >=20 > The co-authors have earlier stated that they are not aware > of any IPRs applicable to this draft. >=20 > If anyone else in the working group are aware of IPRs claims against > this draft, the time to disclose that is now. >=20 > This working group last call will end on March 20, 2013. >=20 > /Loa > for the wg co-chairs >=20 >=20 >=20 > --=20 >=20 >=20 > Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com > Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu > Huawei Technologies (consult) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 > _______________________________________________ > mpls mailing list > mpls@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls From cheung.taesik@gmail.com Wed Mar 6 00:52:12 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1508A21F8484 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 2013 00:52:12 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.448 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.448 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.150, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MANGLED_LSBIAN=2.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id W3f5RR1V7YsX for ; Wed, 6 Mar 2013 00:52:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qa0-f67.google.com (mail-qa0-f67.google.com [209.85.216.67]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 560A821F882F for ; Wed, 6 Mar 2013 00:52:00 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qa0-f67.google.com with SMTP id bv4so828125qab.2 for ; Wed, 06 Mar 2013 00:51:59 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=EHXV/2DtEL/4/FE56QXUJiyy34zvPAoTxrV8RlgKquQ=; b=TLFO39vWVctTIwVIn3lvdorenbhBrzIBTah3nzg3ybZ1sMj1IRgmAmqWFQ3/YpqvWQ J4NkjBNx0N3vaBApJn134gxO2rzPf/x1mYjo9O43OeG7EEy4apBMAWj1i8hsl+6pRhRQ tf1KNIsBtrjNcCaNpkCG1a9bikjssTca8nec6yzrwI9dbr94FIui8Gv89alcXYQFdO/2 LhTDmbwDhXTYu2bxk69JO7DQsgMSKvR2zS6pJ+RIoTsLpv3+LiMwfzyiquTKoPcJnze/ A7m7axe+iZFWlbQuU8IV22/LXzlf63+hjM4Lv5FXJCMCV0fGXlqRSkSPbRWeLlBJGLv0 ZPzw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.49.87.40 with SMTP id u8mr39569475qez.62.1362559919787; Wed, 06 Mar 2013 00:51:59 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.49.0.112 with HTTP; Wed, 6 Mar 2013 00:51:59 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <5135CA50.8060402@pi.nu> Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2013 17:51:59 +0900 Message-ID: From: Taesik Cheung To: mpls@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7bdc8b0a0115db04d73db4b7 Subject: Re: [mpls] poll to to see if we have support to make draft-weingarten-mpls-smp-requirements a working group document X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2013 08:54:34 -0000 --047d7bdc8b0a0115db04d73db4b7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Support. Taesik 2013/3/5 Loa Andersson : > > Working Group, > > This is to start a two week poll on adopting > draft-weingarten-mpls-smp-requirements-03 as an MPLS working group > document. > > Please send your comments (support/not support) to the mpls working group > mailing list (mpls at ietf.org). Please give a technical motivation for > your support/not support, especially if you think that the document should > not be adopted as a working group document. > > This poll ends March 20, 2013. > > There are no IPR claim against this document. > > The authors has stated on the working group mailing list that they are not > aware of any other IPR claims against this draft. > However if you are on the the mpls working group mailing list and aware of > IPR that relates to this draft, the time to disclose this is now. > > /Loa > (mpls wg co-chair) > > -- > > > Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com > Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu > Huawei Technologies (consult) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 > _______________________________________________ > mpls mailing list > mpls@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > --047d7bdc8b0a0115db04d73db4b7 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Support.
=C2=A0
Taesik


=C2=A0
2013/3/5 Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>:

Working Group,

This is to = start a two week poll on adopting
draft-weingarten-mpls-smp-requirements= -03 as an MPLS working group document.

Please send your comments (support/not support) to the mpls working gro= up mailing list (mpls at iet= f.org). Please give a technical motivation for your support/not support= , especially if you think that the document should not be adopted as a work= ing group document.

This poll ends March 20, 2013.

There are no IPR claim against th= is document.

The authors has stated on the working group mailing lis= t that they are not aware of any other IPR claims against this draft.
However if you are on the the mpls working group mailing list and aware of = IPR that relates to this draft, the time to disclose this is now.

/L= oa
(mpls wg co-chair)
=
--


Loa Andersson =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0email: loa@mail01.huawei.com
Senior MPLS Expert =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0loa@pi.nu
Huawei Technologies (consu= lt) =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0phone: +46 739 81 21 64
_______________________________________________
mpls mailing list
mpls@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailm= an/listinfo/mpls

--047d7bdc8b0a0115db04d73db4b7-- From wyaacov@gmail.com Wed Mar 6 01:03:58 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00F6821F8457 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 2013 01:03:58 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QIZ32EFfVmXY for ; Wed, 6 Mar 2013 01:03:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-we0-x236.google.com (mail-we0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c03::236]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A89921F8477 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 2013 01:03:55 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-we0-f182.google.com with SMTP id t57so7759495wey.27 for ; Wed, 06 Mar 2013 01:03:54 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=PVFF13gaR2hE9/tgTB37q++3TBfmKkwAv0ro2317PFg=; b=zZ//tz7v3Nw8nUvRSN9UtYk+9ILnPUCH2Eb6HH4WxIbimMXLaXVlChslWfSelvwWCj T+25+rFs8/6Kl8BbWKjFH7NvdTvjADbhjjm7fDZZd0tlc9ZFmTXfKDZ80n2Zl8ruSC+k a2uauVofmnJ2w+5KBVAX0gbjwiXrQCUUYWdgXT0oI7r94b3CHQdmqbvRXNlq2m01GNmr jwvq38DcWpye3wIVBH+0sqaSpLCeeCkMEcYD9dt4ixtxuGkRFjEEsun42Pc0pIpFw2aU NpTjpYIcu6w9mIBcuvkgY8F80UL21bQ4pnBmw1/vFXw/RgJvGxUdQqqs6hLGzTm4vspi H/wg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.194.63.240 with SMTP id j16mr44914426wjs.45.1362560634208; Wed, 06 Mar 2013 01:03:54 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.194.90.115 with HTTP; Wed, 6 Mar 2013 01:03:54 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <5135CA50.8060402@pi.nu> References: <5135CA50.8060402@pi.nu> Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2013 11:03:54 +0200 Message-ID: From: Yaacov Weingarten To: Loa Andersson Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7ba97b7296468f04d73dde70 Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] poll to to see if we have support to make draft-weingarten-mpls-smp-requirements a working group document X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2013 09:03:58 -0000 --047d7ba97b7296468f04d73dde70 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Support BR, yaacov On Tue, Mar 5, 2013 at 12:34 PM, Loa Andersson wrote: > Working Group, > > This is to start a two week poll on adopting > draft-weingarten-mpls-smp-**requirements-03 as an MPLS working > group document. > > Please send your comments (support/not support) to the mpls working > group mailing list (mpls at ietf.org). Please give a technical > motivation for your support/not support, especially if you think that > the document should not be adopted as a working group document. > > This poll ends March 20, 2013. > > There are no IPR claim against this document. > > The authors has stated on the working group mailing list > that they are not aware of any other IPR claims against this draft. > However if you are on the the mpls working group mailing list and > aware of IPR that relates to this draft, the time to disclose > this is now. > > /Loa > (mpls wg co-chair) > > -- > > > Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com > Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu > Huawei Technologies (consult) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 > -- Thanx and BR, yaacov *Still looking for new opportunity* --047d7ba97b7296468f04d73dde70 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Support
=A0
BR,
yaacov<= /div>


On= Tue, Mar 5, 2013 at 12:34 PM, Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu> wrote:
Working Group,

This is to start a two week poll on adopting
draft-weingarten-mpls-smp-requirements-03 as an MPLS working
group document.

Please send your comments (support/not support) to the mpls working
group mailing list (mpls at i= etf.org). Please give a technical
motivation for your support/not support, especially if you think that
the document should not be adopted as a working group document.

This poll ends March 20, 2013.

There are no IPR claim against this document.

The authors has stated on the working group mailing list
that they are not aware of any other IPR claims against this draft.
However if you are on the the mpls working group mailing list and
aware of IPR that relates to this draft, the time to disclose
this is now.

/Loa
(mpls wg co-chair)

--


Loa Andersson =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0email: loa@mail01.huawei.com
Senior MPLS Expert =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0loa@pi.nu
Huawei Technologies (consult) =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0phone: +46 739 81 21 = 64



--
Thanx and BR,
yaacov

Still looking= for new opportunity
--047d7ba97b7296468f04d73dde70-- From daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com Wed Mar 6 01:47:13 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 581FB21F87E7 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 2013 01:47:13 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.249 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.249 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_SE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yHq7th8tS0xn for ; Wed, 6 Mar 2013 01:47:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailgw7.ericsson.se (mailgw7.ericsson.se [193.180.251.48]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EADE21F874E for ; Wed, 6 Mar 2013 01:47:12 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: c1b4fb30-b7f0d6d000007e61-36-5137109f743c Received: from ESESSHC017.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.253.124]) by mailgw7.ericsson.se (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id EA.78.32353.F9017315; Wed, 6 Mar 2013 10:47:11 +0100 (CET) Received: from ESESSMB301.ericsson.se ([169.254.1.208]) by ESESSHC017.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.69]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.004; Wed, 6 Mar 2013 10:47:10 +0100 From: Daniele Ceccarelli To: Mach Chen , Loa Andersson , "mpls@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [mpls] poll to to see if we have support to make draft-weingarten-mpls-smp-requirements a working group document Thread-Index: AQHOGY0cAGbsfMKRlU+E8uHX0V5zUJiX3a6AgACOVJA= Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2013 09:47:09 +0000 Message-ID: <4A1562797D64E44993C5CBF38CF1BE4809935F@ESESSMB301.ericsson.se> References: <5135CA50.8060402@pi.nu> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: it-IT, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.18] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFnrMLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM+Jvje58AfNAg/kT+C1u39zDavFv7hxm iwtrhS2WvOxgt7i1dCWrA6tHy5G3rB5Llvxk8pg1vY3N48vlz2wBLFFcNimpOZllqUX6dglc GWvPTGArmCxU0bnuDUsD4xu+LkZODgkBE4kLC/qZIGwxiQv31rN1MXJxCAkcYpRom/yQCcJZ zCix6NcmoAwHB5uAlcSTQz4gDSICSRInlv0Ea2YWWMcocX2dLEiJsEC9xP3jxSCtIgINjBIr N/9kg6i3kng77z47SA2LgIpEy3FHkDCvgLfE6p7FYGOEBAok3u1/zQJicwqESdz5cpYVxGYU kJWYsHsRI8QqcYlbT+ZD3SwgsWTPeWYIW1Ti5eN/rBC2osTHV/ug6vUkbkydwgZha0ssW/ia GWKvoMTJmU9YJjCKzUIydhaSlllIWmYhaVnAyLKKkT03MTMnvdx8EyMwog5u+W2wg3HTfbFD jNIcLErivOGuFwKEBNITS1KzU1MLUovii0pzUosPMTJxcEo1ME6PnyySd4tNT4M9pSKbNeth oprT/4BpZ/3Edu627AyUmawb+GNR6v3Hs1jVn5f9fKNiMCXEp2GJQnfL51tBpWsZVH9Yzy6L 0Ml0f35YzzQ6+n6flZzft8/FV1WV77We+b7q+YUfeTM/a56zmqnicfP3m7ll7VveOmarvp93 fZvEhTWf1vgnPFBiKc5INNRiLipOBACeX5XldgIAAA== Cc: "" , "draft-weingarten-mpls-smp-requirements@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] poll to to see if we have support to make draft-weingarten-mpls-smp-requirements a working group document X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2013 09:47:13 -0000 Support BR Daniele=20 >-----Original Message----- >From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On=20 >Behalf Of Mach Chen >Sent: mercoled=EC 6 marzo 2013 3.18 >To: Loa Andersson; mpls@ietf.org >Cc: ;=20 >draft-weingarten-mpls-smp-requirements@tools.ietf.org >Subject: Re: [mpls] poll to to see if we have support to make=20 >draft-weingarten-mpls-smp-requirements a working group document > >Support. > >Best regards, >Mach > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf=20 >> Of Loa Andersson >> Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2013 6:35 PM >> To: mpls@ietf.org >> Cc: ; >> draft-weingarten-mpls-smp-requirements@tools.ietf.org >> Subject: [mpls] poll to to see if we have support to make=20 >> draft-weingarten-mpls-smp-requirements a working group document >>=20 >> Working Group, >>=20 >> This is to start a two week poll on adopting >> draft-weingarten-mpls-smp-requirements-03 as an MPLS working group=20 >> document. >>=20 >> Please send your comments (support/not support) to the mpls working=20 >> group mailing list (mpls at ietf.org). Please give a technical=20 >> motivation for your support/not support, especially if you=20 >think that=20 >> the document should not be adopted as a working group document. >>=20 >> This poll ends March 20, 2013. >>=20 >> There are no IPR claim against this document. >>=20 >> The authors has stated on the working group mailing list=20 >that they are=20 >> not aware of any other IPR claims against this draft. >> However if you are on the the mpls working group mailing list and=20 >> aware of IPR that relates to this draft, the time to=20 >disclose this is=20 >> now. >>=20 >> /Loa >> (mpls wg co-chair) >>=20 >> -- >>=20 >>=20 >> Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com >> Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu >> Huawei Technologies (consult) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 >> _______________________________________________ >> mpls mailing list >> mpls@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls >_______________________________________________ >mpls mailing list >mpls@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls >= From martin.vigoureux@alcatel-lucent.com Wed Mar 6 05:15:33 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C78C821F86EB for ; Wed, 6 Mar 2013 05:15:33 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -110.249 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-110.249 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id j+3fzjU-sP9y for ; Wed, 6 Mar 2013 05:15:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from smail3.alcatel.fr (smail3.alcatel.fr [64.208.49.56]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E08521F84F8 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 2013 05:15:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from FRMRSSXCHHUB02.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com (FRMRSSXCHHUB02.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com [135.120.45.62]) by smail3.alcatel.fr (8.14.3/8.14.3/ICT) with ESMTP id r26CxCoF022329 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 6 Mar 2013 14:15:28 +0100 Received: from FR711WXCHHUB02.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (135.239.2.112) by FRMRSSXCHHUB02.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com (135.120.45.62) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.3.213.0; Wed, 6 Mar 2013 14:15:18 +0100 Received: from [172.27.205.205] (135.239.27.38) by FR711WXCHHUB02.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (135.239.2.112) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.247.3; Wed, 6 Mar 2013 14:15:18 +0100 Message-ID: <51374165.5000506@alcatel-lucent.com> Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2013 14:15:17 +0100 From: Martin Vigoureux Organization: Alcatel-Lucent User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120428 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "MPLS @ IETF" References: <512E0DC4.2010000@alcatel-lucent.com> In-Reply-To: <512E0DC4.2010000@alcatel-lucent.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: [135.239.27.38] X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.69 on 155.132.188.83 Subject: Re: [mpls] IETF86 - MPLS Sessions - Agenda available / Time to send slides X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2013 13:15:33 -0000 All, the agenda has been updated: http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/86/agenda/agenda-86-mpls -m Le 27/02/2013 14:44, Martin Vigoureux a écrit : > Working Group, > > the agenda is available here: > http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/86/agenda/agenda-86-mpls > > Please have a look at it. Note that it is still subject to change. > > Speakers you can start sending your slides. > Please send them to me and the co-chairs no later than Sunday 10th, > 10pm, Orlando time. > Thanks > > Martin > _______________________________________________ > mpls mailing list > mpls@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > > From curtis@occnc.com Wed Mar 6 09:18:07 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F72921F8C8F for ; Wed, 6 Mar 2013 09:18:07 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.495 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.495 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id B78WZOwYyglJ for ; Wed, 6 Mar 2013 09:18:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from gateway1.orleans.occnc.com (unknown [173.9.106.132]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8890F21F8AC3 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 2013 09:18:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from harbor1.ipv6.occnc.com (harbor1.ipv6.occnc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1545::2:819]) (authenticated bits=0) by gateway1.orleans.occnc.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r26HEOiO042435; Wed, 6 Mar 2013 12:14:24 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from curtis@occnc.com) Message-Id: <201303061714.r26HEOiO042435@gateway1.orleans.occnc.com> To: Gregory Mirsky From: Curtis Villamizar In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 04 Mar 2013 17:32:36 GMT." <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF11206C7A0@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2013 12:14:24 -0500 Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" , "draft-villamizar-mpls-forwarding@tools.ietf.org" , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-villamizar-mpls-forwarding X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: curtis@occnc.com List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2013 17:18:07 -0000 In message <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF11206C7A0@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> Gregory Mirsky writes: > > Curtis > > > Greg I fixed this for consistent quoting. > Hi Curtis, > I've snipped RT part. Please find my notes in-lined tagged by GIM>> > > Regards, > Greg > > [...] Thanks. See inline. Curtis > > > As I read the document I put some notes that you might consider as > > > regular comments: > > > > > > Need to build list of acronyms > > > > Will do. I'll look to RFC 5513 for guidance. > > > > > Section 1.2, bullet 5 > > > With definition of Control Channel Type 4 in PW VCCV "MUST" can be > > > changed to "SHOULD". The last sentence might be reworded to > > > "Deployments SHOULD allow enabling and disabling use of PW Control > > > Word". > > > > Please notice the phrase "if MPLS-TP is supported or if ACH is being > > used on a pseudowire [RFC5586]." MPLS-TP and RFC5586 (G-ACh and GAL) > > are cited as the reason for this requirement being a MUST. > > > > In rereading this I notice that we should add "The implementor and > > system designer SHOULD support pseudowire control word if MPLS-TP and > > RFC5586 are not used [RFC5085]." > > GIM>> Even though RFC 5586 excluded GAL from being used on MPLS -TP > PWs, I believe that there's rough agreement in PWE3 WG that PW VCCV > Control Channel Type 4 will be applicable to MPLS-TP PWs when Type 1 > (ACH) not in use. Hence was my suggestion to change from "MUST" to > "SHOULD". Then, since PW CW is SHOULD, we need to say something about > GAL, PW VCCV Control Channel Type 4. I'd put it at SHOULD too with > addition of "deployments SHOULD be able to use Type 4 Control Channel > is use of PW CW is not mandatory". Some implementations predate RFC5586 but comply to RFC5085. Those implementations SHOULD support CW. Those implementations using MPLS-TP and RFC5586 MUST support CW. > > That should make it more clear (SHOULD if RFC5085 compliant only, MUST > > if using MPLS-TP and/or RFC5586 compliant). The entire bullet would be changed to: 5. The implementor and system designer MUST support pseudowire control word if MPLS-TP is supported or if ACH is being used on a pseudowire [RFC5586]. Deployments SHOULD enable pseudowire control word. See Section 2.4.1. Implementations which predate [RFC5586] but comply to only [RFC5085] SHOULD support pseudowire control word. Is that now sufficiently clear with the wording about predating RFC5586 and supporting only RFC5085? > > > Section 1.3, bullet 4 > > > Can these tests or any subset of them be viewed as MPLS forwarding > > > performance benchmarking tests (BMWG)? > > > > Al Morton (BMWG chair) is aware of this work and has forwarded a > > pointer to BMWG. Jay Karthik commented on BMWG. Work is to continue > > in MPLS, but when things have settled down, BMWG may apply the level > > of rigor they normally apply to assure consistent testing where there > > is sufficient interest in standardizing test procedures. > > > > > Section 2.1.1 > > > Reference to Extended Special Purpose MPLS Labels in the section? > > > > If and when it becomes a WG document. There is no dependency on that > > draft and it is best to not refer to work that may not advance. Keep > > in mind that draft-kompella-mpls-special-purpose-labels changes the > > use of reserved labels, by assigning new meaning to label 15. > > > > BTW- I think draft-kompella-mpls-special-purpose-label is good work > > and IMO it should go through this WG RT process and a call should be > > made to make it a WG document. > > > > > Section 2.1.3 > > > First sentence: I think that "MPLS LSP may be used to carry NTP or PTP > > > and synchronize clocks ..." might be closer to the goal of > > > 1588overmpls document. > > > > I'm not sure what your objection is. Here is the paragraph sentence > > by sentence with annotation. > > > > PTP or NTP may be carried over MPLS [I-D.ietf-tictoc-1588overmpls]. > > GIM>> I think of "carried over" as Ethernet carried over MPLS in > PW. The purpose of 1588overMPLS is not only carry NTP or PTP over MPLS > domain but to distribute clock synchronization according to > capabilities of LSRs. PTP is defined as independent of what it is carried over. IEEE made specific recommendations regarding carrying PTP over Ethernet and IP. NTP was defined as running over IP. draft-ietf-tictoc-1588overmpls exists solely to allow either PTP or NTP to run directly over MPLS. For example, draft-ietf-tictoc-1588overmpls would allow PTP over MPLS over GFP over ODU4, where there is no Ethernet header or IP header anywhere in the packet. I don't think we have to say "carried over MPLS and something useful done at the other end". There is no purpose in carrying NTP or PTP over MPLS and discarding the packet at the egress. The "do something useful" part should be obvious, and if not the reader can refer to the cited draft. > > That is exactly as you pointed out. I'm a little concerned that > > this work may have stalled. > > > > Generally NTP will be carried within IP with IP carried in MPLS > > [RFC5905]. > > > > That says that NTP has traditionally gone over IP with IP > > carried over MPLS. I don't think there is an argument there. > > > > Both PTP and NTP benefit from accurate time stamping of incoming > > packets and the ability to insert accurate time stamps in outgoing > > packets. > > > > I don't think anyone would argue this point. > > > > Could you point out what you think needs to be changed? Is it some > > other paragraph? > > GIM>> Don't think that these are my notes. I had only one comment to > section 2.1.3 Not they are not your notes. See above where I stated "I'm not sure what your objection is. Here is the paragraph sentence by sentence with annotation. Also note the depth of quoting. Since your followup was to the first sentence, I think that your objection was to that sentence. If you are OK with the notion that "doing something useful at the other end" is implied, then we can move on. > > > Section 2.1.7 > > > Could the section be named "MPLS-TE Local Protection" or "MPLS-TE Fast > > > Reroute" as RFC 4090 is applicable only to RSVP-TE signaled LSP. > > > > RFC4090 has always been known within the IETF as MPLS Fast Reroute or > > MPLS FRR. If at some point there is acceptance of IPFRR and > > extensions to IPFRR to support LDP, then mpls-forwarding-bis can > > rename these sections. > > > > [...] > > > > > Section 2.4 > > > The last paragraph seams repetitive of third paragraph. Perhaps the > > > last one can be merged into the third as: > > > > > > In order to support an adequately balanced load distribution across > > > multiple links, IP header information must be used. Common > > > practice today is to reinspect the IP headers at each LSR and use > > > the label stack and IP header information in a hash performed at > > > each LSR in the network, combined with a hash seed that is selected > > > by each LSR. Where flow labels or entropy labels are used, a hash > > > seed must be used. Further details are provided in Section 2.4.5. > > > > The last paragraph is about the hash seed. It could be shortenned to > > get rid of the redundancy yet keep discussion of the hash seed > > separate. > > > > Common practice today is to reinspect the packet at each LSR and > > use information from the packet combined with a hash seed that is > > selected by each LSR. Where flow labels or entropy labels are > > used, a hash seed must be used when creating these labels. > > > > Is that OK with you? > > GIM>> Thank you, it works. > > > > Section 2.4.5.1 > > > bullet 3: Following on draft-kompella-mpls-special-purpose-labels- > > > would suggest changing "reserved labels" to "special purpose labels" > > > with note that these might be of one MPLS label element length or > > > two elements (extension label + extended special purpose label). > > > > For now we are not citing draft-kompella-mpls-special-purpose-labels > > When (if) it becomes draft-ietf-mpls-special-purpose-labels, we'll > > make changes. > > > > Note that Kireeti is a co-author of this document and is OK with that. > > GIM>> Clearly it is up to authors how to select terminology. I just > noticed that "special purpose labels" becomes more and more used > vs. "reserved labels". There is no RFC that defines special purpose labels. RFC3032 and http://www.iana.org refer to "reserved labels". Until there is at least a WG doc defining special purpose labels this document will call them reserved labels. If/when there is a WG doc, then it is easy to change. > > > bullet 5: I believe it is possible that first nibble of MAC is > > > either 4 or 6. If that is the case, then use of the first nibble of > > > the payload to determine its type and apply casting might cause > > > re-ordering for Ethernet PWs. Perhaps it can be provided as > > > rationale to control whether node performs first nibble > > > interpretation or not. > > > > Note the wording "an implementation SHOULD support the ability", and > > the statement "If supported, there MUST be a way to disable it (if, > > for example, PW without CW are used)." > > > > The "MUST be able to disable it" (sic) covers the case where a MAC > > starts with 4 or 6 in the first nibble. > > > > Also note that the xml has the following comment: > > > > > > > > We didn't cite draft-ietf-pwe3-vccv-impl-survey-results because the > > draft seems to be stuck. Andy is co-author and PWE3 chair and he's OK > > with this. If it gets unstuck we'll add a sentence. > > > > > Section 2.6.4 or 2.6.5 > > > Whether in discussing MPLS-TP OAM or MPLS OAM and Layer 2 OAM > > > interworking might discuss issue of MPLS-TP CC interval matching CCM > > > intervals in IEEE 802.1ag/Y.1731 and difference in determining Loss of > > > Connectivity between BFD-based CC and Ethernet OAM. > > > > I think that is too much detail on OAM. If there is an OAM > > interworking document that we can cite, then please point it out. For > > now, we cite the documents that exist: > > > > RFC6670, RFC6310, draft-ietf-pwe3-mpls-eth-oam-iwk (just about out > > of the IESG, so an RFC soon). > > > > In IETF there is only one MPLS-TP OAM. We are not going to fight that > > battle in this document. > > > > If 802.1ag/Y.1731 is a server layer, then MPLS-TP timers have to be > > set a half decimal order of magnitude or more longer. If PW is a > > server layer, then 802.1ag/Y.1731 timers have to be set a half decimal > > order of magnitude or more longer. But this level of detail does not > > belong here. > > > > [...] From curtis@occnc.com Wed Mar 6 11:05:40 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35E4621F8523 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 2013 11:05:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.495 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.495 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zpMz3bCM3j7v for ; Wed, 6 Mar 2013 11:05:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from gateway1.orleans.occnc.com (unknown [173.9.106.132]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 141DB21F84CE for ; Wed, 6 Mar 2013 11:05:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from harbor1.ipv6.occnc.com (harbor1.ipv6.occnc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1545::2:819]) (authenticated bits=0) by gateway1.orleans.occnc.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r26J2fOE043453; Wed, 6 Mar 2013 14:02:41 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from curtis@occnc.com) Message-Id: <201303061902.r26J2fOE043453@gateway1.orleans.occnc.com> To: Thomas.Beckhaus@telekom.de From: Curtis Villamizar In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 05 Mar 2013 14:34:13 +0100." Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2013 14:02:41 -0500 Cc: mpls@ietf.org, draft-villamizar-mpls-forwarding@tools.ietf.org, mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-villamizar-mpls-forwarding X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: curtis@occnc.com List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2013 19:05:40 -0000 In message Thomas.Beckhaus@telekom.de writes: > > Hello authors and WG leads, > > I have been asked to review draft-villamizar-mpls-forwarding. > > I have read the draft and find it very useful. Our own experience > while testing and deploying various MPLS equipment have shown that > there is a need for a written best practices document on MPLS > forwarding. I support the adoption as WG draft. The document sounds > technically. Thomas, Thank you for the review. Responses to your notes are inline below. > Some notes: > > In general: > > - the draft defines some topics out of scope in the text (e.g. VPN > encapsulation in section 2.1.9). But it does not explicit define the > scope. Only in the first sentence of section 1, it focusses the > draft on "forwarding". An explicit "scope" definition would be > helpful. This is a good point. I looked for the word scope and found only statements limiting scope, excluding: 1. PW encapsulation (ie: AC, also hashing on NSP fields for EL) 2. VPN (another PW application) 3. active management of hash space in multipath 4. hashing on tunneling protocols within IP encapsulations A statement up front saying what is in scope would help. The following could be added to the introduction. The focus of this document is MPLS forwarding, base pseudowire forwarding, and MPLS OAM. The use of pseudowire control word, and sequence number are discussed. Specific pseudowire AC and NSP are out of scope. Specific pseudowire applications, such as various forms of VPN, are out of scope. MPLS support for multipath techniques is considered essential by many service providers and is useful for other high capacity networks. In order to obtain sufficient entropy from MPLS traffic service providers and others find it essential for the MPLS implementation to interpret the MPLS payload as IPv4 or IPv6 based on the contents of the first nibble of payload. The use of IP addresses, the IP protocol field, and UDP and TCP port number fields in multipath load balancing are considered within scope. The use of any other IP protocol fields, such as tunneling protocols carried within IP, are out of scope. Implementation details are a local matter and are out of scope. > - Is there a reason to use capital letters for PUSH, POP and SWAP > label operations? Personal preference. They could be lower case. > - I like section 2.6.4, because it uses clear requirements language > ("MUST/SHOULD be supported in hardware..."). In some other sections > of the draft, I miss these clear requirements language. It is only OAM where there is an option to do some things outside of the "fast path". All forwarding MUST be done in the forwarding hardware. BTW- It has been suggested that "fast path" be defined and used rather than "in forwarding hardware". > - In some parts, 10 Gbit/s and 100 Gbit/s are mentioned to express > high bandwidth/performance requirements. Shouldn't it be generalized > or do we have to update the RFC when we talk about 1 Tbit/s, next > year? The examples are provided to give a sense of the PPS rates (150 MPPS for Ethernet, 250 MPPS for GFP) and small packet burst buffering needed. For 1 Tb/s interfaces a simple multiplication has to be applied. There would be no need to update the document. > - While start reading, I thought that the draft is a good tutorial > about MPLS forwarding. But the style changes. In some chapters, the > text uses a tutorial style and includes a general discussion about > the mentioned concepts (e.g. section 2.6.1 about DoS protection). In > other sections, the authors expect that the reader is aware about > the features and the implementation (e.g. section 2.1.1 about > reserved labels). Apparently the DoS protection is not obvious to some and there is no document that I am aware of to point readers toward. The reason to beleive it is not sufficiently obvious is the number of implementations in the past which have overlooked this requirement. Even today, there seem to be some within the KARP WG that think that cryptographic techniques solve everything. AFAIK there is no standard defining the IP filtering needed in service provider LSR, therefore some discussion of the requirements is about all that can be provided. The document is long, so if there is any unnecessary tutorial where we could point the reader to an existing document, it would be worth it to point that out. > Section 1.2, 2nd bullet, 3rd sentence: delete "the" in "If a the > bottom..." OK > Section 2.3, 1st sentence: what is "large"? In this sentence large refers to average packet size. Measurements in the 1990s were as low as 120-160 bytes but grew as 552 MTU (dial up using PPP) disappeared. Most people assume 400 bytes or larger today for Internet traffic within a service provider core but point out that it there is a lot of some types of traffic, for example RTP associated with VOIP, then average packet size can be much lower. The point of just using the word "large" was to imply, "a lot bigger than the 40 byte packets commonly observed in large bursts of small packets on the Internet". To expand on "large" in the document would be pointless and add bloat. > Section 2.3, paragraph 6, 2nd sentence: replace "are" with "at" > ("...minimum size packets are full line rate...")? OK > Section 2.4: > usage of "Entropy Label" vs. "entropy label" OK. I will down case except in section titles. > Section 2.4.1: > I do not understand the last paragraph completely. Why do you tolerate > a missing control word support in intra-metro (where maybe multiple > parallel 1 GbE links are used?) and low bandwidth environment. My > understanding of last sentence: For general applicability of MPLS > equipment, the support of control word is required. If a control word is missing from an intra-metro PW and the metro does not use multipath, then no harm is done. As soon as the PW goes inter-metro and crosses infrastructure that uses multipath, it stops working. Some equipment vendors that focus on metro products seem to have missed this. > Section 2.4.5: > replace "...used, the there are a limited..." by "...used, there is a > limited..." OK. "A set" is singular. > Section 2.4.5.2 > Bullet 4, 3rd sentence: replace "af" by "of". OK. > Bullet 6: DSCP and TTL/hop count could be separated in two bullets, > because there a different reasons to not consider these fields. This bullet lists the IP header fields to avoid using. I could make sub-bullets. The reasoning is the same as for the TC and TTL label entry fields, and IP has no bottom of stack bit. > What is the difference between the bullets and the last paragraph in > this section (e.g. the SHOULD requirements of IP addresses in the > bullets and the "recommended MUST" in the last paragraph)? Does it > makes sense to avoid the capitalized letters in this last paragraph to > avoid conflict statements in this section? The bullets indicate compliance to RFCs. The paragraph tries to point out strong market realities that implementors may ignore based on strict reading of the RFCs alone, but "may be doing so at their own peril" if service provider requirements are considered. You may note that some co-authors are from service providers and others have been involved in LSR used by service providers. All felt a need to emphasize that while in the RFCs some functionality discussed in this section is optional, in the real world it is manditory. > Section 2.6.1: > I am not sure to understand the reason for this section in this > I-D. The draft focusses on forwarding and the required > capabilities. This section describes a need of DoS protection > mechanism in general. This has impact on forwarding hardware > (forwarding implementations have to provide IP filtering capabilities > and cryptographic hardware support to offload and distribute DoS > mitigation from the CPU). In the others section, the need of a > requirement on forwarding level is not discussed in general > (e.g. there is no discussion about general OAM deployments). The OAM > capabilities on forwarding level are defined). There are no > requirements of forwarding level in this section (e.g. filtering, > dampening mechanism, cryptographic capabilities, ...). Only a single > reference in following section (2.6.2) to this section. The DoS protection is a set of functionality which if omitted or inadequately addressed can render an implementation unusable in many service provider networks. Most surviving LSR vendors "get it" but a few newbies don't even if the commodity chip they bought and use in their product has adequate support. Most chip vendors appear to get it, but some do a marginal job and that may be because they only understand that filtering and multiple queues to the CPU are needed but don't fully understand why. This subsection adds about a page and IMO is worth that extra page. > Penultimate paragraph, last sentence: I do not know the word > "vigalence". You maybe mean "vigilance" Thanks. > Section 2.6.2, last paragraph, 3rd sentence: closing brace is > missing. Thanks. > Section 2.6.4 > text style: the abbreviation CC-CV is not described, but RDI (Remote > Defect Indication) is. Thank you for pointing that out. > Section 3: > Q#34 and Q#35 style: in other parts of section 3, the different > conformance questions where listed as separate question items. But > Q#34 and Q#35 contains multiple questions. That is a good point. The DoS and OAM was written later than most of the section. I will make it more consistent. > Section 4: > T#23: replace "EI" with "EL" EI > Style: in section 4, DoS and OAM have different "headlines" ("DoS > protection" and "OAM Capabilities and Performance") whereas in section > 3, DoS and OAM are under single headline ("OAM and DoS Protection"). There is more detail in Section 4 than in Section 3 on DoS. It has been suggested that the headings in Section 3 and Section 4 could be subsections (a few would be very small subsections). Now that the document has grown from its initial scope, it makes sense to do that. At that time I can make the subsection headings consistent across Section 3 and Section 4. > Sorry for the required extended review time. > > Regards > Thomas Thanks for the very detailed comments. Curtis > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Loa Andersson [mailto:loa@pi.nu] > > Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 9:35 AM > > To: Eric Osborne (eosborne); Gregory Mirsky; Thomas Nadeau; > > Beckhaus, Thomas > > Cc: draft-villamizar-mpls-forwarding@tools.ietf.org; > > mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; Martin Vigoureux > > Subject: MPLS-RT review of draft-villamizar-mpls-forwarding > > > > Eric, Greg, Tom and Thomas, > > > > You have been selected as an MPLS Review team reviewers for > > draft-villamizar-mpls-forwarding-01.txt. > > > > Note to authors: You have been CC'd on this email so that you can know > > that this review is going on. However, please do not review your own > > document. > > > > Reviews should comment on whether the document is coherent, is it > > useful (ie, is it likely to be actually useful in operational > > networks), and is the document technically sound? We are interested > > in knowing whether the document is ready to be considered for WG > > adoption (ie, it doesn't have to be perfect at this point, > > but should be > > a good start). > > > > Reviews should be sent to the document authors, WG co-chairs and > > secretary, and CC'd to the MPLS WG email list. If necessary, comments > > may be sent privately to only the WG chairs. > > > > Are you able to review this draft by February 27, 2013? > > I'd had a problem picking a good date, if you have problems meeting > > February 27, please suggest another date. > > > > > > > > Thanks, Loa > > (as MPLS WG chair) > > -- > > > > > > Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com > > MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu > > Huawei Technologies (consult) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 From davari@broadcom.com Wed Mar 6 11:30:24 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4AB221F8CE8 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 2013 11:30:24 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id A7JT9glUYUOI for ; Wed, 6 Mar 2013 11:30:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from mms2.broadcom.com (mms2.broadcom.com [216.31.210.18]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83EC321F8CE2 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 2013 11:30:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.16.192.232] by mms2.broadcom.com with ESMTP (Broadcom SMTP Relay (Email Firewall v6.5)); Wed, 06 Mar 2013 11:26:41 -0800 X-Server-Uuid: 4500596E-606A-40F9-852D-14843D8201B2 Received: from SJEXCHCAS03.corp.ad.broadcom.com (10.16.203.9) by SJEXCHHUB02.corp.ad.broadcom.com (10.16.192.232) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.2.247.2; Wed, 6 Mar 2013 11:30:11 -0800 Received: from SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com ( [fe80::bc15:c1e1:c29a:36f7]) by SJEXCHCAS03.corp.ad.broadcom.com ( [::1]) with mapi id 14.01.0438.000; Wed, 6 Mar 2013 11:30:04 -0800 From: "Shahram Davari" To: "Loa Andersson" , "mpls@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [mpls] 2nd working group last call on draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map Thread-Index: AQHOFBCqqpLwJbW2E0CMpYEjd57VtpiZGRXg Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2013 19:30:04 +0000 Message-ID: <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD962A2@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> References: <512C960E.70109@pi.nu> In-Reply-To: <512C960E.70109@pi.nu> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.16.203.100] MIME-Version: 1.0 X-WSS-ID: 7D2947FA3JO242291-03-01 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: "" , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call on draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2013 19:30:24 -0000 My Comments are addressed and I support this draft to be published as Infor= mational RFC. Thx Shahram -----Original Message----- From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Loa= Andersson Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 3:02 AM To: mpls@ietf.org Cc: ; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-= tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org Subject: [mpls] 2nd working group last call on draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-m= ap Working Group, draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05.txt has been updated after a previous last call, due to the nature a and extent of the updates we have chosen to start a 2nd wg last call. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map There's also a htmlized version available at: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05 A diff from the previous version is available at: http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05 Please send your comments, including approval of the documents and the updates to the mpls working group list (mpls@ietf.org) This working group last call ends March 13, 2013. /Loa for the MPLS working group co-chairs --=20 Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu Huawei Technologies (consult) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 _______________________________________________ mpls mailing list mpls@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls From pabloisnot@gmail.com Thu Mar 7 16:41:32 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E656E21F86B6 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 2013 16:41:32 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZfO33YdGzz40 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 2013 16:41:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ve0-f181.google.com (mail-ve0-f181.google.com [209.85.128.181]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA76D21F86AF for ; Thu, 7 Mar 2013 16:41:31 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ve0-f181.google.com with SMTP id d10so856502vea.26 for ; Thu, 07 Mar 2013 16:41:31 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=g/mtNYRKHrRpTp6VQDwfgVThkQb5FcEDicv33WzXpeI=; b=OzK3o4hX4xKd7wSs6j2EPe/Ch9dEipFPldJu07eDYzl8RE/LMPah3rMXPIS9UJtuRm IOirCvGNo5YUsZ+zaFXq2lpAg9e9A8JRdlUW+WXzFXBMa49aDaiFMOpDQH5kWx17NUac B80dkEn2nM/CPSvneaQIjdhc1ctIOKFtcYXHTOtPIq7PCbTYeKHvhUFoZzzb25xop1Ef A9gr40XQhe1h2fPjjjQG+QDzDTDSdD9kGtWGlO5cIDikYXTGJDXCiJ4Uez7SMkl63YoR 3QWLC2NWIrx7Khjs1N//nLsc+r+bMnqD+KM+g4Ku/NEya/ADhC7tHXzPAgp4LE/zVTEI TJhQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.220.154.14 with SMTP id m14mr140500vcw.21.1362703291096; Thu, 07 Mar 2013 16:41:31 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.52.97.97 with HTTP; Thu, 7 Mar 2013 16:41:30 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <5135CA50.8060402@pi.nu> Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2013 19:41:30 -0500 Message-ID: From: Pablo Frank To: Yaacov Weingarten Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d043d64af99d5ec04d75f15f5 Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] poll to to see if we have support to make draft-weingarten-mpls-smp-requirements a working group document X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2013 00:41:33 -0000 --f46d043d64af99d5ec04d75f15f5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Support. cheers, Pablo On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 4:03 AM, Yaacov Weingarten wrote: > Support > > BR, > yaacov > > > On Tue, Mar 5, 2013 at 12:34 PM, Loa Andersson wrote: > >> Working Group, >> >> This is to start a two week poll on adopting >> draft-weingarten-mpls-smp-**requirements-03 as an MPLS working >> group document. >> >> Please send your comments (support/not support) to the mpls working >> group mailing list (mpls at ietf.org). Please give a technical >> motivation for your support/not support, especially if you think that >> the document should not be adopted as a working group document. >> >> This poll ends March 20, 2013. >> >> There are no IPR claim against this document. >> >> The authors has stated on the working group mailing list >> that they are not aware of any other IPR claims against this draft. >> However if you are on the the mpls working group mailing list and >> aware of IPR that relates to this draft, the time to disclose >> this is now. >> >> /Loa >> (mpls wg co-chair) >> >> -- >> >> >> Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com >> Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu >> Huawei Technologies (consult) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 >> > > > > -- > Thanx and BR, > yaacov > > *Still looking for new opportunity* > > _______________________________________________ > mpls mailing list > mpls@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > > --f46d043d64af99d5ec04d75f15f5 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Support.

cheers,
Pablo


On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 4:03 AM, Yaacov Weingarten <w= yaacov@gmail.com> wrote:
Support
=A0<= /div>
BR,
yaacov


On Tue, Mar 5, 2013 at 12:34 PM, Loa And= ersson <loa@pi.nu> wrote:
Working Group,

This is to start a two week poll on adopting
draft-weingarten-mpls-smp-requirements-03 as an MPLS working
group document.

Please send your comments (support/not support) to the mpls working
group mailing list (mpls at i= etf.org). Please give a technical
motivation for your support/not support, especially if you think that
the document should not be adopted as a working group document.

This poll ends March 20, 2013.

There are no IPR claim against this document.

The authors has stated on the working group mailing list
that they are not aware of any other IPR claims against this draft.
However if you are on the the mpls working group mailing list and
aware of IPR that relates to this draft, the time to disclose
this is now.

/Loa
(mpls wg co-chair)

--


Loa Andersson =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0email: loa@mail01.huawei.com
Senior MPLS Expert =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0loa@pi.nu
Huawei Technologies (consult) =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0phone: +46 739 81 21 = 64



--
Thanx and BR,<= div>yaacov

Still looking for new opportunity

_______________________________________________
mpls mailing list
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--f46d043d64af99d5ec04d75f15f5-- From Thomas.Beckhaus@telekom.de Fri Mar 8 06:03:03 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2903921F859A for ; Fri, 8 Mar 2013 06:03:03 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.249 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.249 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Q1WPI9EG-UDd for ; Fri, 8 Mar 2013 06:03:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from tcmail13.telekom.de (tcmail13.telekom.de [80.149.113.165]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 655BD21F8630 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 2013 06:02:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from he110890.emea1.cds.t-internal.com ([10.134.92.131]) by tcmail11.telekom.de with ESMTP/TLS/AES128-SHA; 08 Mar 2013 15:02:38 +0100 Received: from HE111644.EMEA1.CDS.T-INTERNAL.COM ([10.134.93.13]) by he110890 ([10.134.92.131]) with mapi; Fri, 8 Mar 2013 15:02:36 +0100 From: To: Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2013 15:02:35 +0100 Thread-Topic: MPLS-RT review of draft-villamizar-mpls-forwarding Thread-Index: Ac4ancq0tpD6p/oGQNO24AqiVyhvEABZNLZA Message-ID: References: Your message of "Tue, 05 Mar 2013 14:34:13 +0100." <201303061902.r26J2fOE043453@gateway1.orleans.occnc.com> In-Reply-To: <201303061902.r26J2fOE043453@gateway1.orleans.occnc.com> Accept-Language: de-DE Content-Language: de-DE X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: de-DE Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: mpls@ietf.org, draft-villamizar-mpls-forwarding@tools.ietf.org, mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-villamizar-mpls-forwarding X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2013 14:03:03 -0000 Curtis, two remaining topics > > Section 2.4.5.2 > > What is the difference between the bullets and the last paragraph in > > this section (e.g. the SHOULD requirements of IP addresses in the > > bullets and the "recommended MUST" in the last paragraph)? Does it > > makes sense to avoid the capitalized letters in this last > paragraph to > > avoid conflict statements in this section? > > The bullets indicate compliance to RFCs. The paragraph tries to point > out strong market realities that implementors may ignore based on > strict reading of the RFCs alone, but "may be doing so at their own > peril" if service provider requirements are considered. > > You may note that some co-authors are from service providers and > others have been involved in LSR used by service providers. All felt > a need to emphasize that while in the RFCs some functionality > discussed in this section is optional, in the real world it is > manditory. I completely understand and absolutely agree the rationale. But my concern = was about the used rfc-2119 language in the text and the RFC process. But I= assume you have much more experience with RFC processes than me. > > Section 4: > > T#23: replace "EI" with "EL" > > EI I thought the abbreviation stands for Entropy Label Thomas > -----Original Message----- > From: Curtis Villamizar [mailto:curtis@occnc.com] > Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2013 8:03 PM > To: Beckhaus, Thomas > Cc: loa@pi.nu; > draft-villamizar-mpls-forwarding@tools.ietf.org; > mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; eosborne@cisco.com; > gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com; > martin.vigoureux@alcatel-lucent.com; mpls@ietf.org; > tnadeau@lucidvision.com > Subject: Re: MPLS-RT review of draft-villamizar-mpls-forwarding > > > In message > .T-INTERNAL.COM> > Thomas.Beckhaus@telekom.de writes: > > > > Hello authors and WG leads, > > > > I have been asked to review draft-villamizar-mpls-forwarding. > > > > I have read the draft and find it very useful. Our own experience > > while testing and deploying various MPLS equipment have shown that > > there is a need for a written best practices document on MPLS > > forwarding. I support the adoption as WG draft. The document sounds > > technically. > > Thomas, > > Thank you for the review. > > Responses to your notes are inline below. > > > Some notes: > > > > In general: > > > > - the draft defines some topics out of scope in the text (e.g. VPN > > encapsulation in section 2.1.9). But it does not explicit > define the > > scope. Only in the first sentence of section 1, it focusses the > > draft on "forwarding". An explicit "scope" definition would be > > helpful. > > This is a good point. I looked for the word scope and found only > statements limiting scope, excluding: > > 1. PW encapsulation (ie: AC, also hashing on NSP fields for EL) > 2. VPN (another PW application) > 3. active management of hash space in multipath > 4. hashing on tunneling protocols within IP encapsulations > > A statement up front saying what is in scope would help. The > following could be added to the introduction. > > The focus of this document is MPLS forwarding, base pseudowire > forwarding, and MPLS OAM. The use of pseudowire control word, and > sequence number are discussed. Specific pseudowire AC and NSP are > out of scope. Specific pseudowire applications, such as various > forms of VPN, are out of scope. > > MPLS support for multipath techniques is considered essential by > many service providers and is useful for other high capacity > networks. In order to obtain sufficient entropy from MPLS traffic > service providers and others find it essential for the MPLS > implementation to interpret the MPLS payload as IPv4 or IPv6 based > on the contents of the first nibble of payload. The use of IP > addresses, the IP protocol field, and UDP and TCP port number > fields in multipath load balancing are considered within scope. > The use of any other IP protocol fields, such as tunneling > protocols carried within IP, are out of scope. > > Implementation details are a local matter and are out of scope. > > > - Is there a reason to use capital letters for PUSH, POP and SWAP > > label operations? > > Personal preference. They could be lower case. > > > - I like section 2.6.4, because it uses clear requirements language > > ("MUST/SHOULD be supported in hardware..."). In some > other sections > > of the draft, I miss these clear requirements language. > > It is only OAM where there is an option to do some things outside of > the "fast path". All forwarding MUST be done in the forwarding > hardware. > > BTW- It has been suggested that "fast path" be defined and used rather > than "in forwarding hardware". > > > - In some parts, 10 Gbit/s and 100 Gbit/s are mentioned to express > > high bandwidth/performance requirements. Shouldn't it be > generalized > > or do we have to update the RFC when we talk about 1 Tbit/s, next > > year? > > The examples are provided to give a sense of the PPS rates (150 MPPS > for Ethernet, 250 MPPS for GFP) and small packet burst buffering > needed. For 1 Tb/s interfaces a simple multiplication has to be > applied. There would be no need to update the document. > > > - While start reading, I thought that the draft is a good tutorial > > about MPLS forwarding. But the style changes. In some > chapters, the > > text uses a tutorial style and includes a general discussion about > > the mentioned concepts (e.g. section 2.6.1 about DoS > protection). In > > other sections, the authors expect that the reader is aware about > > the features and the implementation (e.g. section 2.1.1 about > > reserved labels). > > Apparently the DoS protection is not obvious to some and there is no > document that I am aware of to point readers toward. The reason to > beleive it is not sufficiently obvious is the number of > implementations in the past which have overlooked this requirement. > Even today, there seem to be some within the KARP WG that think that > cryptographic techniques solve everything. AFAIK there is no standard > defining the IP filtering needed in service provider LSR, therefore > some discussion of the requirements is about all that can be provided. > > The document is long, so if there is any unnecessary tutorial where we > could point the reader to an existing document, it would be worth it > to point that out. > > > Section 1.2, 2nd bullet, 3rd sentence: delete "the" in "If a the > > bottom..." > > OK > > > Section 2.3, 1st sentence: what is "large"? > > In this sentence large refers to average packet size. Measurements in > the 1990s were as low as 120-160 bytes but grew as 552 MTU (dial up > using PPP) disappeared. Most people assume 400 bytes or larger today > for Internet traffic within a service provider core but point out that > it there is a lot of some types of traffic, for example RTP associated > with VOIP, then average packet size can be much lower. > > The point of just using the word "large" was to imply, "a lot bigger > than the 40 byte packets commonly observed in large bursts of small > packets on the Internet". To expand on "large" in the document would > be pointless and add bloat. > > > Section 2.3, paragraph 6, 2nd sentence: replace "are" with "at" > > ("...minimum size packets are full line rate...")? > > OK > > > Section 2.4: > > usage of "Entropy Label" vs. "entropy label" > > OK. I will down case except in section titles. > > > Section 2.4.1: > > I do not understand the last paragraph completely. Why do > you tolerate > > a missing control word support in intra-metro (where maybe multiple > > parallel 1 GbE links are used?) and low bandwidth environment. My > > understanding of last sentence: For general applicability of MPLS > > equipment, the support of control word is required. > > If a control word is missing from an intra-metro PW and the metro does > not use multipath, then no harm is done. As soon as the PW goes > inter-metro and crosses infrastructure that uses multipath, it stops > working. Some equipment vendors that focus on metro products seem to > have missed this. > > > Section 2.4.5: > > replace "...used, the there are a limited..." by "...used, > there is a > > limited..." > > OK. "A set" is singular. > > > Section 2.4.5.2 > > Bullet 4, 3rd sentence: replace "af" by "of". > > OK. > > > Bullet 6: DSCP and TTL/hop count could be separated in two bullets, > > because there a different reasons to not consider these fields. > > This bullet lists the IP header fields to avoid using. I could make > sub-bullets. The reasoning is the same as for the TC and TTL label > entry fields, and IP has no bottom of stack bit. > > > What is the difference between the bullets and the last paragraph in > > this section (e.g. the SHOULD requirements of IP addresses in the > > bullets and the "recommended MUST" in the last paragraph)? Does it > > makes sense to avoid the capitalized letters in this last > paragraph to > > avoid conflict statements in this section? > > The bullets indicate compliance to RFCs. The paragraph tries to point > out strong market realities that implementors may ignore based on > strict reading of the RFCs alone, but "may be doing so at their own > peril" if service provider requirements are considered. > > You may note that some co-authors are from service providers and > others have been involved in LSR used by service providers. All felt > a need to emphasize that while in the RFCs some functionality > discussed in this section is optional, in the real world it is > manditory. > > > Section 2.6.1: > > I am not sure to understand the reason for this section in this > > I-D. The draft focusses on forwarding and the required > > capabilities. This section describes a need of DoS protection > > mechanism in general. This has impact on forwarding hardware > > (forwarding implementations have to provide IP filtering > capabilities > > and cryptographic hardware support to offload and distribute DoS > > mitigation from the CPU). In the others section, the need of a > > requirement on forwarding level is not discussed in general > > (e.g. there is no discussion about general OAM deployments). The OAM > > capabilities on forwarding level are defined). There are no > > requirements of forwarding level in this section (e.g. filtering, > > dampening mechanism, cryptographic capabilities, ...). Only a single > > reference in following section (2.6.2) to this section. > > The DoS protection is a set of functionality which if omitted or > inadequately addressed can render an implementation unusable in many > service provider networks. Most surviving LSR vendors "get it" but a > few newbies don't even if the commodity chip they bought and use in > their product has adequate support. Most chip vendors appear to get > it, but some do a marginal job and that may be because they only > understand that filtering and multiple queues to the CPU are needed > but don't fully understand why. > > This subsection adds about a page and IMO is worth that extra page. > > > Penultimate paragraph, last sentence: I do not know the word > > "vigalence". You maybe mean "vigilance" > > Thanks. > > > Section 2.6.2, last paragraph, 3rd sentence: closing brace is > > missing. > > Thanks. > > > Section 2.6.4 > > text style: the abbreviation CC-CV is not described, but RDI (Remote > > Defect Indication) is. > > Thank you for pointing that out. > > > Section 3: > > Q#34 and Q#35 style: in other parts of section 3, the different > > conformance questions where listed as separate question items. But > > Q#34 and Q#35 contains multiple questions. > > That is a good point. The DoS and OAM was written later than most of > the section. I will make it more consistent. > > > Section 4: > > T#23: replace "EI" with "EL" > > EI > > > Style: in section 4, DoS and OAM have different "headlines" ("DoS > > protection" and "OAM Capabilities and Performance") whereas > in section > > 3, DoS and OAM are under single headline ("OAM and DoS Protection"). > > There is more detail in Section 4 than in Section 3 on DoS. > > It has been suggested that the headings in Section 3 and Section 4 > could be subsections (a few would be very small subsections). Now > that the document has grown from its initial scope, it makes sense to > do that. At that time I can make the subsection headings consistent > across Section 3 and Section 4. > > > Sorry for the required extended review time. > > > > Regards > > Thomas > > Thanks for the very detailed comments. > > Curtis > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Loa Andersson [mailto:loa@pi.nu] > > > Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 9:35 AM > > > To: Eric Osborne (eosborne); Gregory Mirsky; Thomas Nadeau; > > > Beckhaus, Thomas > > > Cc: draft-villamizar-mpls-forwarding@tools.ietf.org; > > > mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; Martin Vigoureux > > > Subject: MPLS-RT review of draft-villamizar-mpls-forwarding > > > > > > Eric, Greg, Tom and Thomas, > > > > > > You have been selected as an MPLS Review team reviewers for > > > draft-villamizar-mpls-forwarding-01.txt. > > > > > > Note to authors: You have been CC'd on this email so that > you can know > > > that this review is going on. However, please do not > review your own > > > document. > > > > > > Reviews should comment on whether the document is coherent, is it > > > useful (ie, is it likely to be actually useful in operational > > > networks), and is the document technically sound? We are > interested > > > in knowing whether the document is ready to be considered for WG > > > adoption (ie, it doesn't have to be perfect at this point, > > > but should be > > > a good start). > > > > > > Reviews should be sent to the document authors, WG co-chairs and > > > secretary, and CC'd to the MPLS WG email list. If > necessary, comments > > > may be sent privately to only the WG chairs. > > > > > > Are you able to review this draft by February 27, 2013? > > > I'd had a problem picking a good date, if you have > problems meeting > > > February 27, please suggest another date. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, Loa > > > (as MPLS WG chair) > > > -- > > > > > > > > > Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com > > > MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu > > > Huawei Technologies (consult) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 > > From Ning.So@tatacommunications.com Tue Feb 5 15:03:43 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 225E921F85FD for ; Tue, 5 Feb 2013 15:03:43 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nmdgZLfc1H8q for ; Tue, 5 Feb 2013 15:03:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from vmx3.tatacommunications.com (vmx3.tatacommunications.com [66.198.167.208]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B85221F8605 for ; Tue, 5 Feb 2013 15:03:40 -0800 (PST) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.84,610,1355115600"; d="scan'208";a="248339627" Received: from unknown (HELO wv1-cas-01.vsnl.co.in) ([64.86.157.137]) by mx3-2.tatacommunications.com with ESMTP; 05 Feb 2013 18:03:37 -0500 Received: from USWV1VCAS02.vsnl.co.in (64.86.157.180) by wv1-cas-01.vsnl.co.in (64.86.157.137) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.3.213.0; Tue, 5 Feb 2013 18:03:37 -0500 Received: from USWV1VDAG02.vsnl.co.in ([fe80::7c6a:fd71:7022:40b6]) by uswv1vcas02.vsnl.co.in ([fe80::14e7:a24:f48:e268%12]) with mapi id 14.02.0309.002; Tue, 5 Feb 2013 18:03:37 -0500 From: Ning So To: "mpls@ietf.org" , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [mpls] IPR poll on draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-multi-topology Thread-Index: AQHOAJQ086ivj9+enk6odkBSVlkmiphpaXoA///FmoCAAralwIAAAsGg Message-ID: References: <000901ce03f4$03c4dd60$0b4e9820$@zhao@huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <000901ce03f4$03c4dd60$0b4e9820$@zhao@huawei.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [64.86.157.8] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 08 Mar 2013 08:49:08 -0800 Subject: Re: [mpls] IPR poll on draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-multi-topology X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2013 23:03:43 -0000 X-Original-Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2013 23:03:37 +0000 X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2013 23:03:43 -0000 I am not aware of any IPR related to this draft. Best regards, Ning So Head of Network Architecture Mobile Broadband Services Tata Communications=20 (Cell) 972-955-0914 > >-----Original Message----- >From: Loa Andersson [mailto:loa@pi.nu] >Sent: Friday, February 01, 2013 11:53 PM >To: mpls@ietf.org >Cc: mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; Adrian Farrel; Martin Vigoureux;=20 >draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-multi-topology@tools.ietf.org >Subject: IPR poll on draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-multi-topology > >Working Group, > >we have looked into our notes and found that we have not done a proper=20 >IPR poll on this draft. To save time we will do it in parallel to the=20 >ongoing working group last call. > >This mail starts that IPR poll. > >Are you aware of any IPR that applies to=20 >draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-multi-topology? > >If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules=20 >(see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details). > >If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond to=20 >this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any relevant=20 >IPR. *The response needs to be sent to the MPLS wg mailing list.* The=20 >documents will not advance to the next stage until a response has been=20 >received from each author and contributor. > >If you are on the MPLS WG email list but are not listed as an author or=20 >contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of=20 >any IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules. > >There is no need to re-disclose the IPR claims against this draft=20 >listed on the MPLS working group web-page, IPR disclosures #1707 and #1875= . > >Thanks, Loa >(as MPLS WG co-chair) >-- > > >Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com >MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu >Huawei Technologies (consult) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 >_______________________________________________ >mpls mailing list >mpls@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls From curtis@occnc.com Fri Mar 8 10:33:03 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F69921F8732 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 2013 10:33:03 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.995 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.995 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.500, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1eAyAXgP6AZE for ; Fri, 8 Mar 2013 10:33:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from gateway1.orleans.occnc.com (unknown [173.9.106.132]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FC0621F8714 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 2013 10:33:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from harbor1.ipv6.occnc.com (harbor1.ipv6.occnc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1545::2:819]) (authenticated bits=0) by gateway1.orleans.occnc.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r28IU18A065544; Fri, 8 Mar 2013 13:30:01 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from curtis@occnc.com) Message-Id: <201303081830.r28IU18A065544@gateway1.orleans.occnc.com> To: Thomas.Beckhaus@telekom.de From: Curtis Villamizar In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 08 Mar 2013 15:02:35 +0100." Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2013 13:30:01 -0500 Cc: mpls@ietf.org, draft-villamizar-mpls-forwarding@tools.ietf.org, mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-villamizar-mpls-forwarding X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: curtis@occnc.com List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2013 18:33:03 -0000 In message Thomas.Beckhaus@telekom.de writes: > Curtis, > > two remaining topics > > > > Section 2.4.5.2 > > > What is the difference between the bullets and the last paragraph in > > > this section (e.g. the SHOULD requirements of IP addresses in the > > > bullets and the "recommended MUST" in the last paragraph)? Does it > > > makes sense to avoid the capitalized letters in this last > > paragraph to > > > avoid conflict statements in this section? > > > > The bullets indicate compliance to RFCs. The paragraph tries to point > > out strong market realities that implementors may ignore based on > > strict reading of the RFCs alone, but "may be doing so at their own > > peril" if service provider requirements are considered. > > > > You may note that some co-authors are from service providers and > > others have been involved in LSR used by service providers. All felt > > a need to emphasize that while in the RFCs some functionality > > discussed in this section is optional, in the real world it is > > manditory. > > I completely understand and absolutely agree the rationale. But my > concern was about the used rfc-2119 language in the text and the > RFC process. But I assume you have much more experience with RFC > processes than me. If the WG or IESG objects we can change it. IMO the paragraph is clear about the recommendations being for practical reasons of securing sufficient market share rather than for RFC compliance. The paragraph starts with: This document makes the following recommendations. These recommendations are not required to claim compliance to any existing RFC therefoer implementors are free to ignore them, but due to service provider requirements may be doing so at their own peril. My most recent experiences in the RFI/RFP process (at a transport vendor considering LSR capability) is that among core networks, the inability to look past the MPLS label stack is such a non-starter with so many providers that equipment vendors would be nuts not to support it. There may be some that claim not to need it but they are a small minority and may discover later that they do need it. The same applies to PW CW. One metro equipment vendor decided that since it was optional they would elect not to support it. One provider decided since it was metro equipment it was OK. When it came time to offer inter-metro services based on PW the mistake became apparent. We have a similar situation with PW CW where the RFC says SHOULD but for practical reasons the provider market says MUST. Here too we tried to include strong wording, noting that CW support is a MUST in the most recent work out of PWE3 WG. On a related note: vendors wanting to do limited MPLS-TP in metro equipment might want to contemplate the implications of inter-metro MPLS-TP LSP. BTW- It was already pointed out that "therefoer" is a typo. > > > Section 4: > > > T#23: replace "EI" with "EL" > > > > EI > > I thought the abbreviation stands for Entropy Label Typo in my response (more likely mouse click after searching for EI in the document). My response should read "OK" or somthing like that. > Thomas Curtis > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Curtis Villamizar [mailto:curtis@occnc.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2013 8:03 PM > > To: Beckhaus, Thomas > > Cc: loa@pi.nu; > > draft-villamizar-mpls-forwarding@tools.ietf.org; > > mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; eosborne@cisco.com; > > gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com; > > martin.vigoureux@alcatel-lucent.com; mpls@ietf.org; > > tnadeau@lucidvision.com > > Subject: Re: MPLS-RT review of draft-villamizar-mpls-forwarding > > > > > > In message > > > .T-INTERNAL.COM> > > Thomas.Beckhaus@telekom.de writes: > > > > > > Hello authors and WG leads, > > > > > > I have been asked to review draft-villamizar-mpls-forwarding. > > > > > > I have read the draft and find it very useful. Our own experience > > > while testing and deploying various MPLS equipment have shown that > > > there is a need for a written best practices document on MPLS > > > forwarding. I support the adoption as WG draft. The document sounds > > > technically. > > > > Thomas, > > > > Thank you for the review. > > > > Responses to your notes are inline below. > > > > > Some notes: > > > > > > In general: > > > > > > - the draft defines some topics out of scope in the text (e.g. VPN > > > encapsulation in section 2.1.9). But it does not explicit > > define the > > > scope. Only in the first sentence of section 1, it focusses the > > > draft on "forwarding". An explicit "scope" definition would be > > > helpful. > > > > This is a good point. I looked for the word scope and found only > > statements limiting scope, excluding: > > > > 1. PW encapsulation (ie: AC, also hashing on NSP fields for EL) > > 2. VPN (another PW application) > > 3. active management of hash space in multipath > > 4. hashing on tunneling protocols within IP encapsulations > > > > A statement up front saying what is in scope would help. The > > following could be added to the introduction. > > > > The focus of this document is MPLS forwarding, base pseudowire > > forwarding, and MPLS OAM. The use of pseudowire control word, and > > sequence number are discussed. Specific pseudowire AC and NSP are > > out of scope. Specific pseudowire applications, such as various > > forms of VPN, are out of scope. > > > > MPLS support for multipath techniques is considered essential by > > many service providers and is useful for other high capacity > > networks. In order to obtain sufficient entropy from MPLS traffic > > service providers and others find it essential for the MPLS > > implementation to interpret the MPLS payload as IPv4 or IPv6 based > > on the contents of the first nibble of payload. The use of IP > > addresses, the IP protocol field, and UDP and TCP port number > > fields in multipath load balancing are considered within scope. > > The use of any other IP protocol fields, such as tunneling > > protocols carried within IP, are out of scope. > > > > Implementation details are a local matter and are out of scope. > > > > > - Is there a reason to use capital letters for PUSH, POP and SWAP > > > label operations? > > > > Personal preference. They could be lower case. > > > > > - I like section 2.6.4, because it uses clear requirements language > > > ("MUST/SHOULD be supported in hardware..."). In some > > other sections > > > of the draft, I miss these clear requirements language. > > > > It is only OAM where there is an option to do some things outside of > > the "fast path". All forwarding MUST be done in the forwarding > > hardware. > > > > BTW- It has been suggested that "fast path" be defined and used rather > > than "in forwarding hardware". > > > > > - In some parts, 10 Gbit/s and 100 Gbit/s are mentioned to express > > > high bandwidth/performance requirements. Shouldn't it be > > generalized > > > or do we have to update the RFC when we talk about 1 Tbit/s, next > > > year? > > > > The examples are provided to give a sense of the PPS rates (150 MPPS > > for Ethernet, 250 MPPS for GFP) and small packet burst buffering > > needed. For 1 Tb/s interfaces a simple multiplication has to be > > applied. There would be no need to update the document. > > > > > - While start reading, I thought that the draft is a good tutorial > > > about MPLS forwarding. But the style changes. In some > > chapters, the > > > text uses a tutorial style and includes a general discussion about > > > the mentioned concepts (e.g. section 2.6.1 about DoS > > protection). In > > > other sections, the authors expect that the reader is aware about > > > the features and the implementation (e.g. section 2.1.1 about > > > reserved labels). > > > > Apparently the DoS protection is not obvious to some and there is no > > document that I am aware of to point readers toward. The reason to > > beleive it is not sufficiently obvious is the number of > > implementations in the past which have overlooked this requirement. > > Even today, there seem to be some within the KARP WG that think that > > cryptographic techniques solve everything. AFAIK there is no standard > > defining the IP filtering needed in service provider LSR, therefore > > some discussion of the requirements is about all that can be provided. > > > > The document is long, so if there is any unnecessary tutorial where we > > could point the reader to an existing document, it would be worth it > > to point that out. > > > > > Section 1.2, 2nd bullet, 3rd sentence: delete "the" in "If a the > > > bottom..." > > > > OK > > > > > Section 2.3, 1st sentence: what is "large"? > > > > In this sentence large refers to average packet size. Measurements in > > the 1990s were as low as 120-160 bytes but grew as 552 MTU (dial up > > using PPP) disappeared. Most people assume 400 bytes or larger today > > for Internet traffic within a service provider core but point out that > > it there is a lot of some types of traffic, for example RTP associated > > with VOIP, then average packet size can be much lower. > > > > The point of just using the word "large" was to imply, "a lot bigger > > than the 40 byte packets commonly observed in large bursts of small > > packets on the Internet". To expand on "large" in the document would > > be pointless and add bloat. > > > > > Section 2.3, paragraph 6, 2nd sentence: replace "are" with "at" > > > ("...minimum size packets are full line rate...")? > > > > OK > > > > > Section 2.4: > > > usage of "Entropy Label" vs. "entropy label" > > > > OK. I will down case except in section titles. > > > > > Section 2.4.1: > > > I do not understand the last paragraph completely. Why do > > you tolerate > > > a missing control word support in intra-metro (where maybe multiple > > > parallel 1 GbE links are used?) and low bandwidth environment. My > > > understanding of last sentence: For general applicability of MPLS > > > equipment, the support of control word is required. > > > > If a control word is missing from an intra-metro PW and the metro does > > not use multipath, then no harm is done. As soon as the PW goes > > inter-metro and crosses infrastructure that uses multipath, it stops > > working. Some equipment vendors that focus on metro products seem to > > have missed this. > > > > > Section 2.4.5: > > > replace "...used, the there are a limited..." by "...used, > > there is a > > > limited..." > > > > OK. "A set" is singular. > > > > > Section 2.4.5.2 > > > Bullet 4, 3rd sentence: replace "af" by "of". > > > > OK. > > > > > Bullet 6: DSCP and TTL/hop count could be separated in two bullets, > > > because there a different reasons to not consider these fields. > > > > This bullet lists the IP header fields to avoid using. I could make > > sub-bullets. The reasoning is the same as for the TC and TTL label > > entry fields, and IP has no bottom of stack bit. > > > > > What is the difference between the bullets and the last paragraph in > > > this section (e.g. the SHOULD requirements of IP addresses in the > > > bullets and the "recommended MUST" in the last paragraph)? Does it > > > makes sense to avoid the capitalized letters in this last > > paragraph to > > > avoid conflict statements in this section? > > > > The bullets indicate compliance to RFCs. The paragraph tries to point > > out strong market realities that implementors may ignore based on > > strict reading of the RFCs alone, but "may be doing so at their own > > peril" if service provider requirements are considered. > > > > You may note that some co-authors are from service providers and > > others have been involved in LSR used by service providers. All felt > > a need to emphasize that while in the RFCs some functionality > > discussed in this section is optional, in the real world it is > > manditory. > > > > > Section 2.6.1: > > > I am not sure to understand the reason for this section in this > > > I-D. The draft focusses on forwarding and the required > > > capabilities. This section describes a need of DoS protection > > > mechanism in general. This has impact on forwarding hardware > > > (forwarding implementations have to provide IP filtering > > capabilities > > > and cryptographic hardware support to offload and distribute DoS > > > mitigation from the CPU). In the others section, the need of a > > > requirement on forwarding level is not discussed in general > > > (e.g. there is no discussion about general OAM deployments). The OAM > > > capabilities on forwarding level are defined). There are no > > > requirements of forwarding level in this section (e.g. filtering, > > > dampening mechanism, cryptographic capabilities, ...). Only a single > > > reference in following section (2.6.2) to this section. > > > > The DoS protection is a set of functionality which if omitted or > > inadequately addressed can render an implementation unusable in many > > service provider networks. Most surviving LSR vendors "get it" but a > > few newbies don't even if the commodity chip they bought and use in > > their product has adequate support. Most chip vendors appear to get > > it, but some do a marginal job and that may be because they only > > understand that filtering and multiple queues to the CPU are needed > > but don't fully understand why. > > > > This subsection adds about a page and IMO is worth that extra page. > > > > > Penultimate paragraph, last sentence: I do not know the word > > > "vigalence". You maybe mean "vigilance" > > > > Thanks. > > > > > Section 2.6.2, last paragraph, 3rd sentence: closing brace is > > > missing. > > > > Thanks. > > > > > Section 2.6.4 > > > text style: the abbreviation CC-CV is not described, but RDI (Remote > > > Defect Indication) is. > > > > Thank you for pointing that out. > > > > > Section 3: > > > Q#34 and Q#35 style: in other parts of section 3, the different > > > conformance questions where listed as separate question items. But > > > Q#34 and Q#35 contains multiple questions. > > > > That is a good point. The DoS and OAM was written later than most of > > the section. I will make it more consistent. > > > > > Section 4: > > > T#23: replace "EI" with "EL" > > > > EI > > > > > Style: in section 4, DoS and OAM have different "headlines" ("DoS > > > protection" and "OAM Capabilities and Performance") whereas > > in section > > > 3, DoS and OAM are under single headline ("OAM and DoS Protection"). > > > > There is more detail in Section 4 than in Section 3 on DoS. > > > > It has been suggested that the headings in Section 3 and Section 4 > > could be subsections (a few would be very small subsections). Now > > that the document has grown from its initial scope, it makes sense to > > do that. At that time I can make the subsection headings consistent > > across Section 3 and Section 4. > > > > > Sorry for the required extended review time. > > > > > > Regards > > > Thomas > > > > Thanks for the very detailed comments. > > > > Curtis > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Loa Andersson [mailto:loa@pi.nu] > > > > Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 9:35 AM > > > > To: Eric Osborne (eosborne); Gregory Mirsky; Thomas Nadeau; > > > > Beckhaus, Thomas > > > > Cc: draft-villamizar-mpls-forwarding@tools.ietf.org; > > > > mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; Martin Vigoureux > > > > Subject: MPLS-RT review of draft-villamizar-mpls-forwarding > > > > > > > > Eric, Greg, Tom and Thomas, > > > > > > > > You have been selected as an MPLS Review team reviewers for > > > > draft-villamizar-mpls-forwarding-01.txt. > > > > > > > > Note to authors: You have been CC'd on this email so that > > you can know > > > > that this review is going on. However, please do not > > review your own > > > > document. > > > > > > > > Reviews should comment on whether the document is coherent, is it > > > > useful (ie, is it likely to be actually useful in operational > > > > networks), and is the document technically sound? We are > > interested > > > > in knowing whether the document is ready to be considered for WG > > > > adoption (ie, it doesn't have to be perfect at this point, > > > > but should be > > > > a good start). > > > > > > > > Reviews should be sent to the document authors, WG co-chairs and > > > > secretary, and CC'd to the MPLS WG email list. If > > necessary, comments > > > > may be sent privately to only the WG chairs. > > > > > > > > Are you able to review this draft by February 27, 2013? > > > > I'd had a problem picking a good date, if you have > > problems meeting > > > > February 27, please suggest another date. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, Loa > > > > (as MPLS WG chair) > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com > > > > MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu > > > > Huawei Technologies (consult) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 From jie.dong@huawei.com Fri Mar 8 20:33:40 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72D2021F874D for ; Fri, 8 Mar 2013 20:33:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OaGGfD6RuyD0 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 2013 20:33:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34E7E21F874A for ; Fri, 8 Mar 2013 20:33:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml203-edg.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.5-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id APE09976; Sat, 09 Mar 2013 04:33:37 +0000 (GMT) Received: from LHREML403-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.217) by lhreml203-edg.huawei.com (172.18.7.221) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.323.7; Sat, 9 Mar 2013 04:33:17 +0000 Received: from SZXEML420-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.82.67.159) by lhreml403-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.217) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.323.7; Sat, 9 Mar 2013 04:33:37 +0000 Received: from SZXEML504-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.8.68]) by szxeml420-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.82.67.159]) with mapi id 14.01.0323.007; Sat, 9 Mar 2013 12:33:30 +0800 From: Jie Dong To: Loa Andersson , "mpls@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [mpls] poll to to see if we have support to make draft-weingarten-mpls-smp-requirements a working group document Thread-Index: AQHOGY0ZHSOB2bTrOkC0QEHbS4JqGJicyzHg Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2013 04:33:29 +0000 Message-ID: <76CD132C3ADEF848BD84D028D243C927327C8CCE@szxeml504-mbs.china.huawei.com> References: <5135CA50.8060402@pi.nu> In-Reply-To: <5135CA50.8060402@pi.nu> Accept-Language: en-US, zh-CN Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.197.192.228] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Cc: "" , "draft-weingarten-mpls-smp-requirements@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] poll to to see if we have support to make draft-weingarten-mpls-smp-requirements a working group document X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2013 04:33:40 -0000 Support. Regards, Jie > -----Original Message----- > From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > Loa Andersson > Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2013 1:35 PM > To: mpls@ietf.org > Cc: ; > draft-weingarten-mpls-smp-requirements@tools.ietf.org > Subject: [mpls] poll to to see if we have support to make > draft-weingarten-mpls-smp-requirements a working group document >=20 > Working Group, >=20 > This is to start a two week poll on adopting > draft-weingarten-mpls-smp-requirements-03 as an MPLS working group > document. >=20 > Please send your comments (support/not support) to the mpls working group > mailing list (mpls at ietf.org). Please give a technical motivation for y= our > support/not support, especially if you think that the document should not= be > adopted as a working group document. >=20 > This poll ends March 20, 2013. >=20 > There are no IPR claim against this document. >=20 > The authors has stated on the working group mailing list that they are no= t > aware of any other IPR claims against this draft. > However if you are on the the mpls working group mailing list and aware o= f IPR > that relates to this draft, the time to disclose this is now. >=20 > /Loa > (mpls wg co-chair) >=20 > -- >=20 >=20 > Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com > Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu > Huawei Technologies (consult) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 > _______________________________________________ > mpls mailing list > mpls@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls From loa@pi.nu Sat Mar 9 03:16:54 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C102821F8459 for ; Sat, 9 Mar 2013 03:16:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.048 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.048 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, RDNS_NONE=0.1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NgE-SxolwrQD for ; Sat, 9 Mar 2013 03:16:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.pi.nu (unknown [195.206.248.139]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81EE621F8441 for ; Sat, 9 Mar 2013 03:16:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from [37.250.232.76] (37.250.232.76.bredband.tre.se [37.250.232.76]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.pi.nu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B04AD8249D; Sat, 9 Mar 2013 12:16:50 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <513B1A2D.8020106@pi.nu> Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2013 12:17:01 +0100 From: Loa Andersson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130215 Thunderbird/17.0.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "mpls@ietf.org" , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , Martin Vigoureux , draft-ietf-mpls-tp-temporal-hitless-psm@tools.ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [mpls] IPR poll on draft-ietf-mpls-tp-temporal-hitless-psm X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2013 11:16:54 -0000 Working Group and authors; The authors of draft-ietf-mpls-tp-temporal-hitless-psm has indicated that the draft is ready working group last call. Since we never done an IPR poll on this draft we will do this before starting the working group last call to check whether there is IPR on the document that needs to be disclosed. This mail starts that IPR poll. Are you aware of any IPR that applies to draft-ietf-mpls-tp- temporal-hitless-psm? If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details). If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond to this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any relevant IPR. *The response needs to be sent to the MPLS wg mailing list.* The documents will not advance to the next stage until a response has been received from each author and contributor. If you are on the MPLS WG email list but are not listed as an author or contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules. Thanks, Loa (as MPLS WG co-chair) -- Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu Huawei Technologies (consult) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 From adrian@olddog.co.uk Sat Mar 9 11:32:44 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7744121F862D for ; Sat, 9 Mar 2013 11:32:44 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Jq02zH7nlPEp for ; Sat, 9 Mar 2013 11:32:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from asmtp2.iomartmail.com (asmtp2.iomartmail.com [62.128.201.249]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F073B21F870C for ; Sat, 9 Mar 2013 11:32:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from asmtp2.iomartmail.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by asmtp2.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r29JWfXC022904; Sat, 9 Mar 2013 19:32:41 GMT Received: from 950129200 ([69.38.252.85]) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp2.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r29JWbf0022863 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Sat, 9 Mar 2013 19:32:39 GMT From: "Adrian Farrel" To: Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2013 19:32:42 -0000 Message-ID: <030101ce1cfc$dffbcac0$9ff36040$@olddog.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: Ac4c/Nqm41OZC0GaQPKOeCbKa8ZyBg== Content-Language: en-gb Cc: mpls@ietf.org Subject: [mpls] AD review of draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-dod X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: adrian@olddog.co.uk List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2013 19:32:44 -0000 Hi authors of draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-dod, I have performed my usual review of your document at the time of your publication request. The purpose of the review is to catch issues and nits that might otherwise show up during IETF last call or IESG evaluation and which might slow down the progress of the document, cause multiple people to spend time on the concerns, or hide other issues. Although I have no fundamental concerns with your work (which is very readable) a couple of my concerns may need some rework of the text. So I will put the document into "revised I-D needed" and wait to see a new version from you. As usual, all my comments are open for discussion. Thanks for the work, Adrian --- There are a number of cases in figures and in the text where "ISIS" is stated as the IGP running in the Aggregation Domain and/or the Core. In my opinion it is very important to separate operators' specific preferences or actual deployments from this Standards Track document. Is there any technical reason why what is described here would not work using OSPF? I think the fix is: - add a statement to the Introduction on the support of both IGPs. - either - explain that "every mention of ISIS is intended to be equally applicable to OSPF" or - replace "ISIS" with "IGP" throughout the document. --- There are few line-length problems that idnits will lag for you. --- It is clear that you intend this work to support IPv4 and IPv6 equally. This comes out in some of the examples where you write, for example, "/32 or /128 destinations". It also shows in some more explicit text like the penultimate paragraph of Section 2.2. But it is not really obvious. And a pedant might point out that a /32 is an interesting IPv6 prefix. I suggest two actions: 1. Make an explicit statement in the Introduction about supporting both v4 and v6 2. Be more longwinded (pedantic) where you say things like "/32 or /128 destinations" And I was happy with that until I got to the end of Section 3 and found: This document is focusing on IPv4 LDP DoD procedures. Similar procedures will apply to IPv6 LDP DoD [I-D.ietf-mpls-ldp-ipv6]. Make your minds up! :-) And then get the document to be self-consistent. --- Section 3 I don't know what you mean by LDP DoD operation is driven by Seamless MPLS use cases. That doesn't really seem to be generically true! Are you trying to scope what appears in this document, or maybe to scope the use cases that you are presenting? --- I am struggling to see why [I-D.ietf-mpls-seamless-mpls] is not a normative reference. It seems that it is pretty fundamental to this document. RFC 4447 is definitely used in a normative way. --- It would be nice if you followed the conventions of RFC 5036 for capitalisation of terms like "label request". It is likely that the RFC Editor will try to enforce this, and you are more likely to achieve this in a consistent and accurate way. --- I understand that the authors initially intended this document to be Informational, and that would have eased a number of my concerns, but as it is now positioned as a Standards Track document, I worry that some of the material (essentially nearly all of Section 4) that provides a description of LDP and in particular DoD, appears to be normative. I have no reason to believe that the text diverges from what 5036 says, but should it be found to (possibly at some time in the future) we will have a little conundrum to solve. So I think that means some small restructuring of the document to break Section 4 into two pieces: - Most of the descriptive text, which can then be prefixed with a clear and unambiguous statement that it is not normative and does not replace the description of LDP in 5036 and o PWs as described in 4447. - New protocol elements and procedures (which I think is limited to 4.4.3) that can be marked as normative. --- Following the previous point, I am uneasy about the use of 2119 language in Section 4. For example, in 4.1 you are essentially saying that "in order to build a specific type of network, the nodes in the network MUST do foo." What you have is essentially an applicability statement, and these are not usually written with 2119 language. More common is "to achieve bar, an implementation does foo" Is 4.4.1 bullet e defining new behavior? Or is it re-stating 5036? Ditto the second bullet a in 4.4.1. And similarly section 4.7. While the SHOULD in section 4.2 sounds more hopeful than anything else! --- Section 4.4.3 has some ambiguous behavior. If the downstream LSR does not support the Queue Request TLV, it will silently ignores it, and sends a "no route" notification back. In this case the upstream LSR invokes the exponential backoff algorithm described in Section 4.4.2. Four things: 1. I think the downstream LSR's behavior described here is compliant with RFC 5036. A precise reference would be good. 2. "Silently ignore" is not compatible with "send a no route notification" 3. The TLV has the U bit set to 1, which you correctly quote from 5036 means Unknown TLV bit is set to 1. If this optional TLV is unknown, it should be ignored without sending "no route" notification. Ensures backward compatibility. Note well *without*. This is contradicted by your text! 4. If the downstream LSR does not support the TLV, how will resending it help on a backoff help? --- Section 6 is a hearty section. Thanks for thinking about this. It is somewhat surprising that you can write a security section on MPLS without reference to RFC 5920. And I wonder whether a reference to the work in KARP (especially draft-ietf-karp-routing-tcp-analysis). One sentence in 6.3 caught my eye in particular. Similarly to Inter-AS MPLS/VPN deployments [RFC4364], the data plane security depends on the security of the control plane. To my eye that reads like "you can secure the data plane if you secure the control plane." I think you mean something more like, "if you don't secure the control plane, you can't secure the data plane." Which is more compatible with the text in 6.2 and 6.3. From agmalis@gmail.com Sun Mar 10 12:16:38 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDE0E21F869C for ; Sun, 10 Mar 2013 12:16:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.765 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.765 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.833, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NE5apaWAXsEL for ; Sun, 10 Mar 2013 12:16:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qe0-f50.google.com (mail-qe0-f50.google.com [209.85.128.50]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9DEC21F862E for ; Sun, 10 Mar 2013 12:16:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qe0-f50.google.com with SMTP id k5so1910159qej.37 for ; Sun, 10 Mar 2013 12:16:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc:content-type; bh=CfJIuKG2v6dm8x80/VVlEjH5BANraJ+cBaHa+hN1zvU=; b=OQAx9mPb7j5Ihw8yTAGDMrBlaQcqNojbOOy17nG6HX+Rtr8FLJs3v0VS/VAhkZ8JCm Zbae+8h8sxo7DSD4Uq78x41NNOGZXqm3ioApPmoT2QZRL9VcftSDf91sukv53nEJTJhG vjfSdgRAuhBVt+RDRGNkp55lPRaJukuN5XDZX+8DQBk3YjfWTeiCgTL/6zN/FxryBWDE CKDFEfW9ZAK4TJIPmkvJ6zPBipX7G42qQb4pm9Q9fmKbiuPKniHgvRp5xoXU+XBoHy7t vGbfHWk+AMIWa+llA1wnzKcggi1k0uh5+d3uRUy4l062Hr3zR2mezmqhc0Ku9ytI4YLf FIKg== X-Received: by 10.49.1.47 with SMTP id 15mr9816670qej.30.1362942997350; Sun, 10 Mar 2013 12:16:37 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.104.67 with HTTP; Sun, 10 Mar 2013 12:16:17 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <5136E90F.8060308@pi.nu> From: "Andrew G. Malis" Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2013 15:16:17 -0400 Message-ID: To: Jeff Tantsura Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b67746234cfd604d796e502 Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-applicability-label-adv@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] working group last call on draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-applicability-label-adv X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2013 19:16:38 -0000 --047d7b67746234cfd604d796e502 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I also support for the reasons that Jeff gave. Cheers, Andy On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 2:07 AM, Jeff Tantsura wrote: > Hi Loa, > > I support this draft, with more and more application sharing the same LDP > session this document provides necessarily clarification on label > advertisement modes to be used. > > Regards, > Jeff > > On Mar 5, 2013, at 22:58, "Loa Andersson" wrote: > > > Working Group, > > > > this is to start a two week Working Group last call on > > draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-applicability-label-adv-01.txt. > > > > Please send your comments to the mpls working group > > mailing list (mpls@ietf.org). > > > > Please send both technical comments, and if you are happy > > with the document as is also indications of support. > > > > There are no IPR claims against this draft. > > > > The co-authors have earlier stated that they are not aware > > of any IPRs applicable to this draft. > > > > If anyone else in the working group are aware of IPRs claims against > > this draft, the time to disclose that is now. > > > > This working group last call will end on March 20, 2013. > > > > /Loa > > for the wg co-chairs > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com > > Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu > > Huawei Technologies (consult) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 > > _______________________________________________ > > mpls mailing list > > mpls@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > _______________________________________________ > mpls mailing list > mpls@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > --047d7b67746234cfd604d796e502 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I also support for the reasons that Jeff gave.
Cheers,
Andy


On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 2:07 AM, Jeff Tantsura <jeff.tantsura@ericsson.com> wrote:
Hi Loa,

I support this draft, with more and more application sharing the same LDP s= ession this document provides necessarily clarification on label advertisem= ent modes to be used.

Regards,
Jeff

On Mar 5, 2013, at 22:58, "Loa Andersson" <loa@pi.nu> wrote:

> Working Group,
>
> this is to start a two week Working Group last call on
> draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-applicability-label-adv-01.txt.
>
> Please send your comments to the mpls working group
> mailing list (mpls@ietf.org).
>
> Please send both technical comments, and if you are happy
> with the document as is also indications of support.
>
> There are no IPR claims against this draft.
>
> The co-authors have earlier stated that they are not aware
> of any IPRs applicable to this draft.
>
> If anyone else in the working group are aware of IPRs claims against > this draft, the time to disclose that is now.
>
> This working group last call will end on March 20, 2013.
>
> /Loa
> for the wg co-chairs
>
>
>
> --
>
>
> Loa Andersson =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0email: loa@mail01.huawei.com
> Senior MPLS Expert =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0= loa@pi.nu
> Huawei Technologies (consult) =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0phone: +46 739 81 21 64
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
_______________________________________________
mpls mailing list
mpls@ietf.org
ht= tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls

--047d7b67746234cfd604d796e502-- From agmalis@gmail.com Sun Mar 10 12:19:34 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C014721F84E8 for ; Sun, 10 Mar 2013 12:19:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.182 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.182 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.416, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id t1SZOvhJKJd7 for ; Sun, 10 Mar 2013 12:19:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qa0-f48.google.com (mail-qa0-f48.google.com [209.85.216.48]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E717821F84A9 for ; Sun, 10 Mar 2013 12:19:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qa0-f48.google.com with SMTP id j8so639776qah.0 for ; Sun, 10 Mar 2013 12:19:33 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc:content-type; bh=lRmjm/mvxB4iVrlDviJOuCKtx/NWpfrMmteTcCcbqM8=; b=XKsBKBDWkmHdKA4eBHvgbeS5R3fm6EZaZAqPJaqjOCo3hE0aLaQ3hInlQBzbj9DzNo EIgF3xKi86YGPhPnroFLrFC6Eqt7d3iF6JAIc41p04mWW+8ymnDAQHClsScK3pYnfvTw QOFOEoWN4IfhKu3BKuSgAx2rA5c7XQDYYNDSat893gNlsMvNbOfY5OR2/k2EZosYR0ix MI6sjarn3CAYyiva4RHHp8b3nBrHJeE5au6q6I9QrYCcU+nzY3ekdtsMUrUT9KWOonah y31mxMx7VcpW0tOeo9vfkxn94W3h8W9JquXK+XAx2cs8pzIBAYbJXpdvjlxKgBJfB6hC V9DA== X-Received: by 10.229.252.208 with SMTP id mx16mr3067424qcb.37.1362943173427; Sun, 10 Mar 2013 12:19:33 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.104.67 with HTTP; Sun, 10 Mar 2013 12:19:13 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <51278645.3050800@pi.nu> From: "Andrew G. Malis" Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2013 15:19:13 -0400 Message-ID: To: Mach Chen Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001636c5b4a5b391f004d796ef04 Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ip-pw-capability@tools.ietf.org" , "" Subject: Re: [mpls] Working group last call on draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ip-pw-capability-03.txt X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2013 19:19:34 -0000 --001636c5b4a5b391f004d796ef04 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I also feel the draft is ready for publishing. Cheers, Andy On Fri, Mar 1, 2013 at 4:24 AM, Mach Chen wrote: > Hi, > > I have read the draft. > > I think the draft is well written and support to publish the draft. > > Best regards, > Mach > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > Loa > > Andersson > > Sent: Friday, February 22, 2013 10:53 PM > > To: mpls@ietf.org > > Cc: ; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; > > draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ip-pw-capability@tools.ietf.org > > Subject: [mpls] Working group last call on > > draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ip-pw-capability-03.txt > > > > Working Group, > > > > this is to start a two week Working Group last call on > > draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ip-pw-capability-03.txt. > > > > Please send your comments to the mpls working group > > mailing list (mpls@ietf.org). > > > > Please send both technical comments, and if you are happy > > with the document as is also indications of support. > > > > There are no IPR claims against this draft. > > > > Booth the co-authors have earlier stated that they are not aware > > of any IPRs applicable to this draft. > > > > If anyone else in the working group are aware of IPRs claims against > > this draft, the time to disclose that is now. > > > > This working group last call will end on March 8, 2013. > > > > /Loa > > for the wg co-chairs > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com > > Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu > > Huawei Technologies (consult) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 > > _______________________________________________ > > mpls mailing list > > mpls@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > _______________________________________________ > mpls mailing list > mpls@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > --001636c5b4a5b391f004d796ef04 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I also feel the draft is ready for publishing.
Cheers,
Andy


On Fri, Mar 1, 2013 at 4:24 AM, Mach Chen <mach.chen= @huawei.com> wrote:
Hi,

I have read the draft.

I think the draft is well written and support to publish the draft.

Best regards,
Mach

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Loa
> Andersson
> Sent: Friday, February 22, 2013 10:53 PM
> To: mpls@ietf.org
> Cc: <mpls-ads@tools.ietf= .org>; mpls-chairs@too= ls.ietf.org;
> draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ip-pw-capability@tools.ietf.org
> Subject: [mpls] Working group last call on
> draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ip-pw-capability-03.txt
>
> Working Group,
>
> this is to start a two week Working Group last call on
> draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ip-pw-capability-03.txt.
>
> Please send your comments to the mpls working group
> mailing list (mpls@ietf.org).
>
> Please send both technical comments, and if you are happy
> with the document as is also indications of support.
>
> There are no IPR claims against this draft.
>
> Booth the co-authors have earlier stated that they are not aware
> of any IPRs applicable to this draft.
>
> If anyone else in the working group are aware of IPRs claims against > this draft, the time to disclose that is now.
>
> This working group last call will end on March 8, 2013.
>
> /Loa
> for the wg co-chairs
>
>
>
>
> --
>
>
> Loa Andersson =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0email: loa@mail01.huawei.com
> Senior MPLS Expert =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0= loa@pi.nu
> Huawei Technologies (consult) =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0phone: +46 739 81 21 64
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
_______________________________________________
mpls mailing list
mpls@ietf.org
ht= tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls

--001636c5b4a5b391f004d796ef04-- From ping@pingpan.org Sun Mar 10 12:22:13 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41E7621F88A1 for ; Sun, 10 Mar 2013 12:22:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.976 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.976 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RxjjOOaf0+2B for ; Sun, 10 Mar 2013 12:22:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exprod7og108.obsmtp.com (exprod7og108.obsmtp.com [64.18.2.169]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id DAA8721F8522 for ; Sun, 10 Mar 2013 12:22:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ea0-f199.google.com ([209.85.215.199]) (using TLSv1) by exprod7ob108.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKUTzdY8B+IB7nBpZV0zxrUb6fRVjpIWgY@postini.com; Sun, 10 Mar 2013 12:22:12 PDT Received: by mail-ea0-f199.google.com with SMTP id b15so2882262eae.6 for ; Sun, 10 Mar 2013 12:22:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:x-received:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=CB9VnyeVKLxVZDZ5KD2sl2pc1ISJsHa3ql5QP4rWPL8=; b=Y6H3JSBrKfu44Qzs7pdn/W65hsdRyjzXkTK8JVlBkArqD7L37XRzwRL22WdFq9xS21 fkkSsXFedVBIcqUCo5xms2nE/u/lyPhfqIeaRTVkwA0fzTW9AXtNcH/H81olFCcAW06d RIo4CPeEkAcUwiVCBbm5iF68Px41GKv+PQxZw6bZ1TmXdaK+DbqqHhetnlO65ru6qaHv j8YqU0d15LoTyhumNrb8NUVvsYOss9JDzZ4j9dwLRct7DpYEHqZEwjsThdFI/zQytpB8 q3z6ORp8dCH01RHa28ug9oheSVMaZPiSi7eoMjEha6lCPALqdjziSU2cTT62VD+ZrjqQ PFWQ== X-Received: by 10.194.84.8 with SMTP id u8mr14991411wjy.29.1362943330391; Sun, 10 Mar 2013 12:22:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.194.84.8 with SMTP id u8mr14991407wjy.29.1362943330294; Sun, 10 Mar 2013 12:22:10 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.194.118.137 with HTTP; Sun, 10 Mar 2013 12:21:30 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <5136E90F.8060308@pi.nu> From: Ping Pan Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2013 15:21:30 -0400 Message-ID: To: "Andrew G. Malis" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7bb0473a0d381b04d796f99e X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQku6Gfj0yeFwNxzVWwCXLUp8+bg8axX0jpUL1NjGrxOFJ2hCp21Pl6p95HodXnrbVOBI6Ssm5f87tCnUsEs8JR2xY7sXGLXMBiOvPPv90cPSCJuEKfDLLGkvzLCh/VCHbDRc8NDNc3g1w2uMzEQv2Dc3OgpXw== Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-applicability-label-adv@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] working group last call on draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-applicability-label-adv X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2013 19:22:13 -0000 --047d7bb0473a0d381b04d796f99e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 +1 On Sun, Mar 10, 2013 at 3:16 PM, Andrew G. Malis wrote: > I also support for the reasons that Jeff gave. > > Cheers, > Andy > > > On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 2:07 AM, Jeff Tantsura wrote: > >> Hi Loa, >> >> I support this draft, with more and more application sharing the same LDP >> session this document provides necessarily clarification on label >> advertisement modes to be used. >> >> Regards, >> Jeff >> >> On Mar 5, 2013, at 22:58, "Loa Andersson" wrote: >> >> > Working Group, >> > >> > this is to start a two week Working Group last call on >> > draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-applicability-label-adv-01.txt. >> > >> > Please send your comments to the mpls working group >> > mailing list (mpls@ietf.org). >> > >> > Please send both technical comments, and if you are happy >> > with the document as is also indications of support. >> > >> > There are no IPR claims against this draft. >> > >> > The co-authors have earlier stated that they are not aware >> > of any IPRs applicable to this draft. >> > >> > If anyone else in the working group are aware of IPRs claims against >> > this draft, the time to disclose that is now. >> > >> > This working group last call will end on March 20, 2013. >> > >> > /Loa >> > for the wg co-chairs >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > >> > >> > Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com >> > Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu >> > Huawei Technologies (consult) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 >> > _______________________________________________ >> > mpls mailing list >> > mpls@ietf.org >> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls >> _______________________________________________ >> mpls mailing list >> mpls@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls >> > > > _______________________________________________ > mpls mailing list > mpls@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > > --047d7bb0473a0d381b04d796f99e Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable +1

On Sun, Mar 10, 2013 at 3:16 PM, Andre= w G. Malis <agmalis@gmail.com> wrote:
I also support for the reasons that Jeff gave.
Cheers,
Andy


On Wed, Mar 6, 2= 013 at 2:07 AM, Jeff Tantsura <jeff.tantsura@ericsson.com>= wrote:
Hi Loa,

I support this draft, with more and more application sharing the same LDP s= ession this document provides necessarily clarification on label advertisem= ent modes to be used.

Regards,
Jeff

On Mar 5, 2013, at 22:58, "Loa Andersson" <loa@pi.nu> wrote:

> Working Group,
>
> this is to start a two week Working Group last call on
> draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-applicability-label-adv-01.txt.
>
> Please send your comments to the mpls working group
> mailing list (mpls@= ietf.org).
>
> Please send both technical comments, and if you are happy
> with the document as is also indications of support.
>
> There are no IPR claims against this draft.
>
> The co-authors have earlier stated that they are not aware
> of any IPRs applicable to this draft.
>
> If anyone else in the working group are aware of IPRs claims against > this draft, the time to disclose that is now.
>
> This working group last call will end on March 20, 2013.
>
> /Loa
> for the wg co-chairs
>
>
>
> --
>
>
> Loa Andersson =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0email: loa@mail01.huawei.com
> Senior MPLS Expert =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0loa@pi.nu
> Huawei Technologies (consult) =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0phone: +46 739 81 21 64
> _______________________________________________
> mpls mailing list
> mpls@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
_______________________________________________
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ht= tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls


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ht= tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls


--047d7bb0473a0d381b04d796f99e-- From internet-drafts@ietf.org Sun Mar 10 18:18:30 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC95711E80D1; Sun, 10 Mar 2013 18:18:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.479 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.479 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.121, BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Zpq1wNhtCN8y; Sun, 10 Mar 2013 18:18:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DD8711E80BF; Sun, 10 Mar 2013 18:18:30 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 4.42 Message-ID: <20130311011829.22075.5893.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2013 18:18:29 -0700 Cc: mpls@ietf.org Subject: [mpls] I-D Action: draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-relay-reply-00.txt X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 01:18:30 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director= ies. This draft is a work item of the Multiprotocol Label Switching Working Gro= up of the IETF. Title : Relayed Echo Reply mechanism for LSP Ping Author(s) : Ryan Zheng Lizhong Jin Thomas Nadeau George Swallow Filename : draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-relay-reply-00.txt Pages : 15 Date : 2013-03-10 Abstract: In some inter-AS and inter-area deployment scenarios for LSP Ping and Traceroute, a replying LSR may not have the available route to the initiator, and the Echo Reply message sent to the initiator would be discarded resulting in false negatives or complete failure of operation of LSP Ping and Traceroute. This document describes extensions to LSP Ping mechanism to enable the replying LSR to have the capability to relay the echo response by a set of routable intermediate nodes to the initiator during the traceroute process in inter-AS and inter-area scenarios. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-relay-reply There's also a htmlized version available at: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-relay-reply-00 Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From iesg-secretary@ietf.org Mon Mar 11 07:38:32 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0E5211E80F2; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 07:38:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.558 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.558 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.042, BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id k6O5ucKUfljS; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 07:38:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A08B311E80F4; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 07:38:29 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: The IESG To: IETF-Announce X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 4.42 Message-ID: <20130311143829.25029.44089.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 07:38:29 -0700 Cc: mpls mailing list , mpls chair , RFC Editor Subject: [mpls] Document Action: 'MPLS-TP Security Framework' to Informational RFC (draft-ietf-mpls-tp-security-framework-09.txt) X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 14:38:33 -0000 The IESG has approved the following document: - 'MPLS-TP Security Framework' (draft-ietf-mpls-tp-security-framework-09.txt) as Informational RFC This document is the product of the Multiprotocol Label Switching Working Group. The IESG contact persons are Adrian Farrel and Stewart Bryant. A URL of this Internet Draft is: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-tp-security-framework/ Technical Summary This document provides a security framework for Multiprotocol Label Switching Transport Profile (MPLS-TP). MPLS-TP extends MPLS technologies and introduces new OAM capabilities, a transport- oriented path protection mechanism, and strong emphasis on static provisioning supported by network management systems. This document addresses the security aspects relevant in the context of MPLS-TP specifically. It describes potential security threats, security requirements for MPLS-TP, and mitigation procedures for MPLS-TP networks and MPLS-TP interconnection to other MPLS and GMPLS networks. This document is built on RFC5920 "MPLS and GMPLS security framework" by providing additional security considerations which are applicable to the MPLS-TP extensions. All the security considerations from RFC5920 are assumed to apply. Working Group Summary This document has a strong support in the working group and has been well reviewed. The organization, structure, and content of this document benefitted from multiple reviews, in particular, reviews by the co-chair of the KARP WG. ITU-T SG15 has been notified of all reviews and working group last calls for this document: there are no unresolved comments or issues. The document was returned to the working group after the first publication request for restructuring and considerable change. The new version is much shorter and has been through a second working group last call. Document Quality This an informational document, it presents a framework that might be used when implementing, deploying, configurating and operating networks, but it is not possible to say that there are implementations. The document has had the review that is needed, the working group last call was brought to the attention of SG15 in ITU-T. Personnel Loa Andersson (loa@pi.nu) is the Document Shepherd. Adrian Farrel (adrian@olddog.co.uk) is the Responsible AD. From iesg-secretary@ietf.org Mon Mar 11 07:38:33 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21EC411E80F4 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 07:38:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.558 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.558 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.042, BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mJ-EckYSk+R0; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 07:38:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A948911E80F6; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 07:38:29 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: The IESG To: IANA X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 4.42 X-IETF-Draft-string: draft-ietf-mpls-tp-security-framework X-IETF-Draft-revision: 09 Message-ID: <20130311143829.25029.5552.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 07:38:29 -0700 Cc: mpls mailing list , mpls chair , RFC Editor Subject: [mpls] Document Action: 'MPLS-TP Security Framework' to Informational RFC (draft-ietf-mpls-tp-security-framework-09.txt) X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: noreply@ietf.org List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 14:38:33 -0000 The IESG has approved the following document: - 'MPLS-TP Security Framework' (draft-ietf-mpls-tp-security-framework-09.txt) as Informational RFC This document is the product of the Multiprotocol Label Switching Working Group. The IESG contact persons are Adrian Farrel and Stewart Bryant. A URL of this Internet Draft is: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-tp-security-framework/ Technical Summary This document provides a security framework for Multiprotocol Label Switching Transport Profile (MPLS-TP). MPLS-TP extends MPLS technologies and introduces new OAM capabilities, a transport- oriented path protection mechanism, and strong emphasis on static provisioning supported by network management systems. This document addresses the security aspects relevant in the context of MPLS-TP specifically. It describes potential security threats, security requirements for MPLS-TP, and mitigation procedures for MPLS-TP networks and MPLS-TP interconnection to other MPLS and GMPLS networks. This document is built on RFC5920 "MPLS and GMPLS security framework" by providing additional security considerations which are applicable to the MPLS-TP extensions. All the security considerations from RFC5920 are assumed to apply. Working Group Summary This document has a strong support in the working group and has been well reviewed. The organization, structure, and content of this document benefitted from multiple reviews, in particular, reviews by the co-chair of the KARP WG. ITU-T SG15 has been notified of all reviews and working group last calls for this document: there are no unresolved comments or issues. The document was returned to the working group after the first publication request for restructuring and considerable change. The new version is much shorter and has been through a second working group last call. Document Quality This an informational document, it presents a framework that might be used when implementing, deploying, configurating and operating networks, but it is not possible to say that there are implementations. The document has had the review that is needed, the working group last call was brought to the attention of SG15 in ITU-T. Personnel Loa Andersson (loa@pi.nu) is the Document Shepherd. Adrian Farrel (adrian@olddog.co.uk) is the Responsible AD. From loa@pi.nu Mon Mar 11 15:33:40 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 332B121F8F3C for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 15:33:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.048 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.048 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, RDNS_NONE=0.1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qAHw+5VxuiR1 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 15:33:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.pi.nu (unknown [195.206.248.139]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86B2621F8F0A for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 15:33:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [130.129.21.10] (dhcp-150a.meeting.ietf.org [130.129.21.10]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.pi.nu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1EF12824AC; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 23:33:30 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <513E5BB9.4030505@pi.nu> Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 23:33:29 +0100 From: Loa Andersson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130215 Thunderbird/17.0.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "mpls@ietf.org" References: <51278645.3050800@pi.nu> In-Reply-To: <51278645.3050800@pi.nu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: "" , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ip-pw-capability@tools.ietf.org Subject: [mpls] Still Open - Working group last call on draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ip-pw-capability-03.txt X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 22:33:40 -0000 Working Group, this wglc should have been closed Friday last week, but since the activity has been a little bit weak and we are going into the IETF week we will not close it until mid-next week. Please take this chance to review and comment. /Loa On 2013-02-22 15:52, Loa Andersson wrote: > Working Group, > > this is to start a two week Working Group last call on > draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ip-pw-capability-03.txt. > > Please send your comments to the mpls working group > mailing list (mpls@ietf.org). > > Please send both technical comments, and if you are happy > with the document as is also indications of support. > > There are no IPR claims against this draft. > > Booth the co-authors have earlier stated that they are not aware > of any IPRs applicable to this draft. > > If anyone else in the working group are aware of IPRs claims against > this draft, the time to disclose that is now. > > This working group last call will end on March 8, 2013. > > /Loa > for the wg co-chairs > > > > -- Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu Huawei Technologies (consult) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 From jcucchiara@mindspring.com Mon Mar 11 20:34:15 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 542E821F8790; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 20:34:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, STOX_REPLY_TYPE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PSFETY1e5BEr; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 20:34:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from elasmtp-curtail.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-curtail.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.64]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4644C21F860A; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 20:34:14 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=mindspring.com; b=X7ms22iN6z0fm4c5EwpowYGr5JmHIb9UtFnm1bmbLK2Z082TZnpqzxVgQ98Li+27; h=Received:Message-ID:From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [24.41.69.138] (helo=JoanPC) by elasmtp-curtail.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1UFFyY-0005EP-MI; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 23:34:06 -0400 Message-ID: <00fe01ce1ed2$72981ce0$6801a8c0@JoanPC> From: "Joan Cucchiara" To: , "Thomas Nadeau" , "Venkatesan Mahalingam" , "Kannan Sampath" , , "Sami Boutros" Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 22:34:05 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ELNK-Trace: 4d68bbe9cb71969ea344cf2d1a8e60840a9da525759e2654fcd1a393e6a2ffdd85dcb1dfe9c8cca8f966978d6047df59350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 24.41.69.138 Cc: mpls@ietf.org, "MIB Doctors \(E-mail\)" Subject: [mpls] MIB Doctor Review of draft-ietf-mpls-tp-oam-id-mib-02.txt X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2013 03:34:15 -0000 Authors, Most of the comments during the LC have been addressed. Thank you for that. Please see some follow-up comments below. Thanks, -Joan * MIB compiles cleanly with smicng and smilint Specific Comments: ==================== Section 3.3 Acronyms * MIP is specified slightly differently in the referenced docs. Please be consistant. Section 6. This example, specifies the mplsOamIdMeMpEntry as a MEP, but why isn't the SourceMepIndex or SinkMepIndex == mplsOamIdMeMpIndex? Also, there are at least 2 MEPs in an ME, and at least one ME in a MEG and these relationships are not completely evolved in this example. I think the example should be expanded to agree with what is stated in the first paragraph. MIB Module comments ------------------- * TC: MplsOamPhbTCValue MplsOamPhbTCValue ::= TEXTUAL-CONVENTION STATUS current DESCRIPTION "This is the Per-hop Behavior (PHB) traffic class values for the MPLS OAM operations." SYNTAX INTEGER { be (1), af1 (2), af2 (3), af3 (4), af4 (5), ef (6), cs6 (7), cs7 (8) } Rfc3270, "Multi-Protocol Label Switching (MPLS) Support of Differentiated Services", specifies that MPLS TP will use DSCP as per rfc2474 and other specs. Is that the intent wrt this TC? If not, please explain where these values are defined, otherwise, if these values are as per rfc3270, then please be consistant with the labels. TC labels should correspond more closely to DiffServ BHB traffic class values. In other words, http://www.iana.org/assignments/dscp-registry/dscp-registry.xml Name Space Reference CS0 000000 [RFC2474] CS1 001000 [RFC2474] CS2 010000 [RFC2474] CS3 011000 [RFC2474] CS4 100000 [RFC2474] CS5 101000 [RFC2474] CS6 110000 [RFC2474] CS7 111000 [RFC2474] AF11 001010 [RFC2597] AF12 001100 [RFC2597] AF13 001110 [RFC2597] AF21 010010 [RFC2597] AF22 010100 [RFC2597] AF23 010110 [RFC2597] AF31 011010 [RFC2597] AF32 011100 [RFC2597] AF33 011110 [RFC2597] AF41 100010 [RFC2597] AF42 100100 [RFC2597] AF43 100110 [RFC2597] EF PHB 101110 [RFC3246] VOICE-ADMIT 101100 [RFC5865] Continuing with that thought: I believe this TC could (and should) be formalized into an IANA-Maintained MIB if these values are the same as the above IANA-Maintained assignments for DFCPs. (NOTE: this was mentioned also in the LC comments.) Please discuss. Also, this TC should have a REFERENCE clause. * mplsOamIdMegIndex There is no information about how to employ mplsOamIdMegIndexNext to obtain a value for this index. Please update the DESCRIPTION accordingly. * mplsOamIdMegOperatorType Why does this say "should have valid values...", isn't this a MUST? Also, s/while making/when/ * mplsOamIdMegIdCc s/contains non-null ICC/MUST contain a/ s/otherwise null ICC value/otherwise a null ICC value/ s/should be assigned/MUST be assigned/ * mplsOamIdMegIdIcc Same comments as above. Please use MUST. * mplsOamIdMegIdUmc Same comments as above. Please use MUST. * mplsOamIdMegServiceType Could you please specify the service pointer by the object's name? Also, the references are within the DESCRIPTION which is fine, but they should also be in a REFERENCE clause. * mplsOamIdMeIndexNext and mplsOamIdMpIndexNext These objects are not referred to by mplsOamIdMeIndex or mplsOamIdMeMpIndex. There is not enough description to understand how the IndexNext objects are to be used. * MplsOamIdMeTable The mplsOamIdMeEntry states "An entry in this table represents MPLS-TP maintenance entity." Yet, looking at the INDEX { mplsOamIdMegIndex, mplsOamIdMeIndex, mplsOamIdMeMpIndex } This is not an ME because an ME by definition has 2 (source/sink)MEPs. An entry in this table represents either a MEP or MIP, not an ME. *) What is the benefit of combining MEP and MIP (i.e. the objects which contain "Mp" as part of their object name)? Many other objects in this table, need to figure out if the entry is describing a MEP or MIP before the value can be interpreted correctly. Additionally, there is duplicate info in the form of having a Source and Sink specified for each Mp. Could you elaborate on what the benefit is of having listing MEPs and MIPs in this way? It seems like the original intent may have been to specify an ME as being an entry in this table. However, that would mean the table should probably be indexed by MEG index, a ME index, a source MEP index and a sink MEP index. This would greatly simplify many of the object descriptions. Have you considered specifying MIPs in a 3rd table, such that each ME would have 2 MEPs and zero or more MIPs? Please discuss. *) mplsOamIdMeMpIfIndex Rfc6370, Section 4.discusses an IF_NUM and an IF_ID and states "Note that IF_Num had no relation with the ifNum object defined in RFC2863. Further, no mapping is mandated between IF_Num and ifIndex in RFC 2863." I don't see any mention of ifIndex in RFC 6371, so could you tell me what Section? Is this object supposed to represent IF_NUM in rfc6370? *) mplsOamIdMeServicePointer The DESCRIPTION contains wording which is very loose. Could you please use wording which specifies a "SHOULD" or "MUST"? Under what circumstances should this be 0.0? Compliance Statement of the MIB *) Compliance (This has been asked before and I have not seen any discussion about it.) There is no read-only compliance. Has it been made clear to the WGs (MPLS and PWE3) that SNMP sets will need to be supported in order to be compliant with the MIB? *) question above, about whether the intention is to support ifIndex as per rfc2863 or IF_ID (or IF_NUM) as per rfc6370 may affect this. "MODULE IF-MIB -- The Interfaces Group MIB, RFC 2863. MANDATORY-GROUPS { ifGeneralInformationGroup, ifCounterDiscontinuityGroup" *) mplsOamIdNotificationObjectsGroup OBJECT-GROUP I don't see a need to make a specific group for these objects. They are already specified by mplsOamIdGroups. Section 8. Security Section Need to reference specific read-create objects and also read-only which could impact the network. Additionally, the incomplete sentence: "These are the tables and objects and their sensitivity/vulnerability: " needs to be completed. Section 9. IANA Considerations s/specified this document/specified in this document/ missing the word "in" Section 11. Thank you for the ack! From aldrin.ietf@gmail.com Mon Mar 11 20:38:44 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A1E721F8962; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 20:38:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.071 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.071 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_EQ_IP_ADDR=1.119, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bYei1L+m-fNX; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 20:38:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ie0-x229.google.com (mail-ie0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c03::229]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 220E021F895F; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 20:38:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ie0-f169.google.com with SMTP id 13so5895311iea.0 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 20:38:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:subject:mime-version:content-type:from:x-priority :in-reply-to:date:cc:content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references :to:x-mailer; bh=TxTuW6H+krVJYVV/3D+jltMk1oFHVg2HsHVVTTEb9zc=; b=eN8+/p6/Bbm9jd/yzorAlcMbObT977G5UBHtsUU6msKYtuSmRzaxAMYUxkkW7lA0BU bihtgAWoHlKKteNZkr0jG9UO56On4YUKkhTSnK8lCe8D1edM1nixolTk8EOXIxU6s8CN EBIMbKpjo0HP7SbGaHN2NC7qM2jRBzDXccpqS7ShI244ZTdcAnKue7h7FB5nUFFVCUZt T0IVUJeL9QnY/LmlEErYXCDeTEcsa8UqPtJOoBpOYg9hHlagfgDiu00oPmbRYycDawD6 aukZfCGBMIi26/+mKB52s5ziIJd2Jgbgh152GFiVh47owOxyDpomejDX3Hh/0eGiWTLI XLSA== X-Received: by 10.50.16.138 with SMTP id g10mr10378825igd.33.1363059522758; Mon, 11 Mar 2013 20:38:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [130.129.135.99] ([130.129.135.99]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id ua6sm17016707igb.0.2013.03.11.20.38.40 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 11 Mar 2013 20:38:41 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.2 \(1499\)) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 From: Sam Aldrin X-Priority: 3 In-Reply-To: <00fe01ce1ed2$72981ce0$6801a8c0@JoanPC> Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 20:38:39 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <00fe01ce1ed2$72981ce0$6801a8c0@JoanPC> To: "Joan Cucchiara" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1499) Cc: mpls@ietf.org, "MIB Doctors \(E-mail\)" , ppan@infinera.com, Sami Boutros , Kannan Sampath , Venkatesan Mahalingam Subject: Re: [mpls] MIB Doctor Review of draft-ietf-mpls-tp-oam-id-mib-02.txt X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2013 03:38:44 -0000 Hi Joan, Thank you so much for the detailed feedback and comments. Will take a look at them and address as necessary. Will be circling back to you and MIB doctors with the status and = response at the earliest. thanks -sam On Mar 11, 2013, at 8:34 PM, "Joan Cucchiara" = wrote: >=20 > Authors, >=20 > Most of the comments during the LC have been addressed. > Thank you for that. Please see some follow-up comments below. >=20 > Thanks, > -Joan >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > * MIB compiles cleanly with smicng and smilint >=20 >=20 > Specific Comments: > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >=20 > Section 3.3 Acronyms >=20 >=20 > * MIP is specified slightly differently in the referenced docs. > Please be consistant. >=20 >=20 > Section 6. >=20 > This example, specifies the mplsOamIdMeMpEntry as a MEP, but why > isn't the SourceMepIndex or SinkMepIndex =3D=3D mplsOamIdMeMpIndex? >=20 > Also, there are at least 2 MEPs in an ME, and at least one ME > in a MEG and these relationships are not completely evolved > in this example. I think the example should be expanded > to agree with what is stated in the first paragraph. >=20 >=20 >=20 > MIB Module comments > ------------------- >=20 > * TC: MplsOamPhbTCValue >=20 >=20 > MplsOamPhbTCValue ::=3D TEXTUAL-CONVENTION > STATUS current > DESCRIPTION > "This is the Per-hop Behavior (PHB) traffic class values > for the MPLS OAM operations." > SYNTAX INTEGER { > be (1), > af1 (2), > af2 (3), > af3 (4), > af4 (5), > ef (6), > cs6 (7), > cs7 (8) > } >=20 >=20 > Rfc3270, "Multi-Protocol Label Switching (MPLS) Support of > Differentiated Services", specifies that MPLS TP will use DSCP as per > rfc2474 and other specs. Is that the intent wrt this TC? >=20 > If not, please explain where these values are defined, otherwise, > if these values are as per rfc3270, then please be consistant with the = labels. >=20 > TC labels should correspond more closely to DiffServ BHB traffic class = values. > In other words, >=20 > http://www.iana.org/assignments/dscp-registry/dscp-registry.xml >=20 > Name Space Reference > CS0 000000 [RFC2474] > CS1 001000 [RFC2474] > CS2 010000 [RFC2474] > CS3 011000 [RFC2474] > CS4 100000 [RFC2474] > CS5 101000 [RFC2474] > CS6 110000 [RFC2474] > CS7 111000 [RFC2474] > AF11 001010 [RFC2597] > AF12 001100 [RFC2597] > AF13 001110 [RFC2597] > AF21 010010 [RFC2597] > AF22 010100 [RFC2597] > AF23 010110 [RFC2597] > AF31 011010 [RFC2597] > AF32 011100 [RFC2597] > AF33 011110 [RFC2597] > AF41 100010 [RFC2597] > AF42 100100 [RFC2597] > AF43 100110 [RFC2597] > EF PHB 101110 [RFC3246] > VOICE-ADMIT 101100 [RFC5865] >=20 >=20 > Continuing with that thought: I believe this TC could (and should) be > formalized into an IANA-Maintained MIB if these values are the same > as the above IANA-Maintained assignments for DFCPs. > (NOTE: this was mentioned also in the LC comments.) Please discuss. >=20 > Also, this TC should have a REFERENCE clause. >=20 >=20 >=20 > * mplsOamIdMegIndex > There is no information about how to employ mplsOamIdMegIndexNext to > obtain a value for this index. Please update the DESCRIPTION = accordingly. >=20 >=20 >=20 > * mplsOamIdMegOperatorType > Why does this say "should have valid values...", isn't this a MUST? > Also, s/while making/when/ >=20 > * mplsOamIdMegIdCc >=20 > s/contains non-null ICC/MUST contain a/ >=20 > s/otherwise null ICC value/otherwise a null ICC value/ >=20 > s/should be assigned/MUST be assigned/ >=20 > * mplsOamIdMegIdIcc >=20 > Same comments as above. Please use MUST. >=20 > * mplsOamIdMegIdUmc > Same comments as above. Please use MUST. >=20 >=20 > * mplsOamIdMegServiceType > Could you please specify the service pointer by the object's name? >=20 > Also, the references are within the DESCRIPTION which is fine, but > they should also be in a REFERENCE clause. >=20 >=20 > * mplsOamIdMeIndexNext and mplsOamIdMpIndexNext > These objects are not referred to by mplsOamIdMeIndex or = mplsOamIdMeMpIndex. > There is not enough description to understand how the IndexNext = objects > are to be used. >=20 >=20 > * MplsOamIdMeTable >=20 > The mplsOamIdMeEntry states "An entry in this table > represents MPLS-TP maintenance entity." Yet, looking at the > INDEX { mplsOamIdMegIndex, > mplsOamIdMeIndex, > mplsOamIdMeMpIndex > } >=20 > This is not an ME because an ME by definition has 2 (source/sink)MEPs. > An entry in this table represents either a MEP or MIP, not an ME. >=20 >=20 > *) What is the benefit of combining MEP and MIP (i.e. the objects > which contain "Mp" as part of their object name)? > Many other objects in this table, need to figure out if the entry > is describing a MEP or MIP before the value can be interpreted = correctly. > Additionally, there is duplicate info in the form of having a Source = and > Sink specified for each Mp. Could you elaborate on what the > benefit is of having listing MEPs and MIPs in this way? >=20 > It seems like the original intent may have been to specify an ME > as being an entry in this table. However, that would mean the table > should probably be indexed by MEG index, a ME index, a source MEP = index > and a sink MEP index. >=20 > This would greatly simplify many of the object descriptions. >=20 > Have you considered specifying MIPs in a 3rd table, such that each > ME would have 2 MEPs and zero or more MIPs? >=20 > Please discuss. >=20 >=20 >=20 > *) mplsOamIdMeMpIfIndex >=20 > Rfc6370, Section 4.discusses an IF_NUM and an IF_ID and states > "Note that IF_Num had no relation with the ifNum object defined in > RFC2863. Further, no mapping is mandated between IF_Num and ifIndex = in > RFC 2863." >=20 > I don't see any mention of ifIndex in RFC 6371, so could you tell me = what > Section? Is this object supposed to represent IF_NUM in rfc6370? >=20 > *) mplsOamIdMeServicePointer >=20 > The DESCRIPTION contains wording which is very loose. Could you > please use wording which specifies a "SHOULD" or "MUST"? > Under what circumstances should this be 0.0? >=20 >=20 > Compliance Statement of the MIB >=20 > *) Compliance (This has been asked before and I have not seen any = discussion about it.) >=20 > There is no read-only compliance. Has it been made clear > to the WGs (MPLS and PWE3) that SNMP sets will need to > be supported in order to be compliant with the MIB? >=20 >=20 > *) question above, about whether the intention is to support > ifIndex as per rfc2863 or IF_ID (or IF_NUM) as per rfc6370 may > affect this. >=20 > "MODULE IF-MIB -- The Interfaces Group MIB, RFC 2863. > MANDATORY-GROUPS { > ifGeneralInformationGroup, > ifCounterDiscontinuityGroup" >=20 >=20 > *) mplsOamIdNotificationObjectsGroup OBJECT-GROUP >=20 > I don't see a need to make a specific group for > these objects. They are already specified by mplsOamIdGroups. >=20 >=20 > Section 8. Security Section >=20 > Need to reference specific read-create objects and also read-only = which > could impact the network. >=20 > Additionally, the incomplete sentence: > "These are the tables and objects and their sensitivity/vulnerability: = " > needs to be completed. >=20 >=20 > Section 9. IANA Considerations >=20 > s/specified this document/specified in this document/ > missing the word "in" >=20 >=20 > Section 11. > Thank you for the ack! >=20 From koike.yoshinori@lab.ntt.co.jp Tue Mar 12 01:11:29 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 561CA21F87B1 for ; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 01:11:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.09 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.09 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_JP=1.244, HOST_EQ_JP=1.265] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0YZLZWL1hR7P for ; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 01:11:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tama50.ecl.ntt.co.jp (tama50.ecl.ntt.co.jp [129.60.39.147]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63E3621F8460 for ; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 01:11:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mfs6.rdh.ecl.ntt.co.jp (mfs6.rdh.ecl.ntt.co.jp [129.60.39.149]) by tama50.ecl.ntt.co.jp (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r2C8BKYU029713 for ; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 17:11:20 +0900 Received: from mfs6.rdh.ecl.ntt.co.jp (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mfs6.rdh.ecl.ntt.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7674AE0199 for ; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 17:11:20 +0900 (JST) Received: from imail3.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp (imail3.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp [129.60.5.248]) by mfs6.rdh.ecl.ntt.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61953E0193 for ; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 17:11:20 +0900 (JST) Received: from [129.60.11.43] (koike-pc.nslab.ecl.ntt.co.jp [129.60.11.43]) by imail3.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r2C8BKQK004482 for ; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 17:11:20 +0900 Message-ID: <513EE3BF.1010703@lab.ntt.co.jp> Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2013 17:13:51 +0900 From: Yoshinori Koike User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130215 Thunderbird/17.0.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: mpls@ietf.org References: <513B1A2D.8020106@pi.nu> In-Reply-To: <513B1A2D.8020106@pi.nu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [mpls] IPR poll on draft-ietf-mpls-tp-temporal-hitless-psm X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2013 08:11:29 -0000 I'm not aware of any IPR applicable to this draft. Regards, Yoshinori (2013/03/09 20:17), Loa Andersson wrote: > Working Group and authors; > > The authors of draft-ietf-mpls-tp-temporal-hitless-psm has indicated > that the draft is ready working group last call. > > Since we never done an IPR poll on this draft we will do this before > starting the working group last call to check whether there is IPR > on the document that needs to be disclosed. > > This mail starts that IPR poll. > > Are you aware of any IPR that applies to draft-ietf-mpls-tp- > temporal-hitless-psm? > > If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules > (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details). > > If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond to > this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any relevant > IPR. *The response needs to be sent to the MPLS wg mailing list.* The > documents will not advance to the next stage until a response > has been received from each author and contributor. > > If you are on the MPLS WG email list but are not listed as an author or > contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any > IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules. > > > Thanks, Loa > (as MPLS WG co-chair) -- Yoshinori Koike koike.yoshinori@lab.ntt.co.jp From pabloisnot@gmail.com Tue Mar 12 08:16:27 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2EFBA21F8917 for ; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 08:16:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rN+4HYCFI7yR for ; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 08:16:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ve0-f169.google.com (mail-ve0-f169.google.com [209.85.128.169]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3334421F84FF for ; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 08:16:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ve0-f169.google.com with SMTP id 15so3631524vea.28 for ; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 08:16:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=XgwOsngBLrzm56oJ8bJOF6aipQZS3oxK5MoMGmSWUnA=; b=faz4U6gRjSZ1DT93KnPtv4nZFqIPC0f5DfWRO8Ty02gQaHISbqWpAz8CprBgE0zVTX zL8yhp8UedF8KiVUB4aPSXJLqwlcbLfcQXgYkggNNCheMIhC2dQzIBWOg2as8SFrmJ39 h+AmY4MVVvW0hSJGcQY2L/0njI0JqLB/pJT3LqCsPf4i4cWmEjjLG4q6mSh/JYqTu8td /0cPIlLVa6flkD75Uc2sLdinbCAd33a/FccJuGYnRct78ooGkXuE3GL1FOhYHe44fKNG DUUthjHe4LJC4VHS0OxgrH9LMpzKqYD7SE3ZpKH+Y3ZlCYrADm1w1dA4I7Psi6zxNMq6 HYug== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.52.74.34 with SMTP id q2mr5721404vdv.76.1363101385696; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 08:16:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.97.97 with HTTP; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 08:16:25 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD962A2@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> References: <512C960E.70109@pi.nu> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD962A2@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2013 11:16:25 -0400 Message-ID: From: Pablo Frank To: Shahram Davari Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=20cf3071c7fce359e504d7bbc5a5 Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org" , "" Subject: Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call on draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2013 15:16:27 -0000 --20cf3071c7fce359e504d7bbc5a5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I'm still a little wary of the wording on pg. 9, 4th bullet. Currently, the draft suggests that packet inspection needs to be minimized. My concern with the original solution proposal was that it required a new line-rate *lookup*. There was a secondary concern around parsing TLVs which this point *does* appear to address, but minimizing 'inspection' does not seem to preclude new lookups. One of the nice things about MPLS OAM as it's defined today is that relatively easy to get off-the-shelf forwarding hardware to trap / redirect OAM frames to a separate OAM block that could perform the OAM validation and lookups. This is because encountering a GACh or a TTL expiry as part of regular MPLS handling unambiguously terminates the frame (and note that it doesn't require an OAM-specific lookup in the main-line forwarding hardware). I'd like this draft to set avoiding new OAM-specific lookups as a design objective, or you risk precluding a whole class of (cheap, high volume) hardware from being able to do this function. regards, Pablo On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 2:30 PM, Shahram Davari wrote: > My Comments are addressed and I support this draft to be published as > Informational RFC. > > Thx > Shahram > > -----Original Message----- > From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > Loa Andersson > Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 3:02 AM > To: mpls@ietf.org > Cc: ; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; > draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org > Subject: [mpls] 2nd working group last call on > draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map > > Working Group, > > draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05.txt has been updated after a > previous last call, due to the nature a and extent of the updates > we have chosen to start a 2nd wg last call. > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map > > There's also a htmlized version available at: > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05 > > A diff from the previous version is available at: > http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05 > > Please send your comments, including approval of the documents and > the updates to the mpls working group list (mpls@ietf.org) > > This working group last call ends March 13, 2013. > > /Loa > for the MPLS working group co-chairs > -- > > > Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com > Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu > Huawei Technologies (consult) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 > _______________________________________________ > mpls mailing list > mpls@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > > > _______________________________________________ > mpls mailing list > mpls@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > --20cf3071c7fce359e504d7bbc5a5 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm still a little wary of the wording on pg. 9, 4th bullet. =A0Current= ly, the draft suggests that packet inspection needs to be minimized. =A0My = concern with the original solution proposal was that it required a new line= -rate *lookup*. =A0There was a secondary concern around parsing TLVs which = this point *does* appear to address, but minimizing 'inspection' do= es not seem to preclude new lookups. =A0One of the nice things about MPLS O= AM as it's defined today is that relatively easy to get off-the-shelf f= orwarding hardware to trap / redirect OAM frames to a separate OAM block th= at could perform the OAM validation and lookups. =A0This is because encount= ering a GACh or a TTL expiry as part of regular MPLS handling unambiguously= terminates the frame (and note that it doesn't require an OAM-specific= lookup in the main-line forwarding hardware). =A0I'd like this draft t= o set avoiding new OAM-specific lookups as a design objective, or you risk = precluding a whole class of (cheap, high volume) hardware from being able t= o do this function.

regards,
Pablo


On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 2:30 PM, Shahram Davari <davar= i@broadcom.com> wrote:
My Comments are addressed and I support this= draft to be published as Informational =A0RFC.

Thx
Shahram

-----Original Message-----
From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [m= ailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] O= n Behalf Of Loa Andersson
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 3:02 AM
To: mpls@ietf.org
Cc: <mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org<= /a>>; mpls-chairs@tools.ie= tf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org
Subject: [mpls] 2nd working group last call on draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-m= ap

Working Group,

draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05.txt has been updated after a
previous last call, due to the nature a and extent of the updates
we have chosen to start a 2nd wg last call.

The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-= mep-map

There's also a htmlized version available at:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-0= 5

A diff from the previous version is available at:
http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-mpls-= tp-mip-mep-map-05

Please send your comments, including approval of the documents and
the updates to the mpls working group list (mpls@ietf.org)

This working group last call ends March 13, 2013.

/Loa
for the MPLS working group co-chairs
--


Loa Andersson =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0email: loa@mail01.huawei.com
Senior MPLS Expert =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0loa@pi.nu
Huawei Technologies (consult) =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0phone: +46 739 81 21 64
_______________________________________________
mpls mailing list
mpls@ietf.org
ht= tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls


_______________________________________________
mpls mailing list
mpls@ietf.org
ht= tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls

--20cf3071c7fce359e504d7bbc5a5-- From talmi@marvell.com Tue Mar 12 08:25:16 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4B1321F8C87 for ; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 08:25:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eGszptyB9PmB for ; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 08:25:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from na3sys009aog109.obsmtp.com (na3sys009aog109.obsmtp.com [74.125.149.201]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2192221F8C7A for ; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 08:25:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sc-owa02.marvell.com ([199.233.58.137]) (using TLSv1) by na3sys009aob109.postini.com ([74.125.148.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKUT9Iy7/lJXjd/35F5Dh28uk5hZ/7mRlN@postini.com; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 08:25:10 PDT Received: from YK-HUB01.marvell.com (10.4.102.51) by sc-owa02.marvell.com (10.93.76.22) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.3.213.0; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 08:09:21 -0700 Received: from IL-MB01.marvell.com ([10.4.102.53]) by YK-HUB01.marvell.com ([10.4.102.51]) with mapi; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 17:09:13 +0200 From: Tal Mizrahi To: Curtis Villamizar , "mpls@ietf.org" Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2013 17:09:08 +0200 Thread-Topic: Comments about draft-villamizar-mpls-forwarding Thread-Index: Ac4fM0jVPDsa5qN8S2GmeyJNWegBOw== Message-ID: <74470498B659FA4687F0B0018C19A89C01A0F9726814@IL-MB01.marvell.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_74470498B659FA4687F0B0018C19A89C01A0F9726814ILMB01marve_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: [mpls] Comments about draft-villamizar-mpls-forwarding X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2013 15:25:16 -0000 --_000_74470498B659FA4687F0B0018C19A89C01A0F9726814ILMB01marve_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Curtis, Very interesting draft. I definitely think it is worth pursuing. Some comments below: 1. I think it is a good idea to describe the common practices of wher= e you draw the line between hardware and software. However, as a chip vendor I do not feel comfortable with *mandating* what s= hould be implemented in hardware. Terms like: "hardware should", "hardware MUST be capable of", or "MUST be r= ecognized by hardware" are a bit harsh. In general, I suggest to relax the phrasing in a way that describes what ty= pically is done in hardware, but does mandate what should be done in hardwa= re. 2. "2.1.3. Time Synchronization" a. I suggest to add a reference to IEEE 1588. b. "It may be necessary to modify layer-2 checksums or frame check seq= uences after insertion." - timestamping PTP/NTP over UDP/IP may also requir= e updating the UDP checksum. 3. "2.6. OAM and DoS Protection" a. I would suggest to separate this section into 2 subsections. In my= understanding (correct me if wrong) the connection between OAM and DoS is = a bit remote. b. RFC6374 is mentioned only in the context of MPLS-TP, even though it= is defined for MPLS. c. You may want to mention protection switching, e.g., RFC 6378. Tal. --_000_74470498B659FA4687F0B0018C19A89C01A0F9726814ILMB01marve_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Curtis,<= /o:p>

 

Ver= y interesting draft. I definitely think it is worth pursuing.

 

Some commen= ts below:

1.   &n= bsp;   I think it = is a good idea to describe the common practices of where you draw the line = between hardware and software.
However, as a chip vendor I do not feel c= omfortable with *mandating* what should be implemented in hardware. =
Terms like: “hardware should”, “hardware MUST be capa= ble of”, or “MUST be recognized by hardware” are a bit ha= rsh.
In general, I suggest to relax the phrasing in a way that describes= what typically is done in hardware, but does mandate what should be done i= n hardware.

2.   =     “2.= 1.3.  Time Synchronization”

a.       I suggest to add a reference to IEEE 15= 88.

b. &= nbsp;    R= 20;It may be necessary to modify layer-2 checksums or frame check sequences= after insertion.” – timestamping PTP/NTP over UDP/IP may also = require updating the UDP checksum.

3.       “2.6.  OAM and DoS Protection”

a.    &= nbsp;  I would suggest = to separate this section into 2 subsections. In my understanding (correct m= e if wrong) the connection between OAM and DoS is a bit remote.<= /p>

b.    = ;  RFC6374 is mentioned= only in the context of MPLS-TP, even though it is defined for MPLS.

c.   =     You may w= ant to mention protection switching, e.g., RFC 6378.

 

Tal.

 

= --_000_74470498B659FA4687F0B0018C19A89C01A0F9726814ILMB01marve_-- From michelg@upperside.fr Tue Mar 12 08:28:29 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C88D21F8CB1 for ; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 08:28:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.926 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.926 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.742, BAYES_40=-0.185, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oMJ386ZDJqG6 for ; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 08:28:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp04.msg.oleane.net (smtp04.msg.oleane.net [62.161.4.4]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1633921F8CB0 for ; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 08:28:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from MichelGosseDel ([195.6.217.229]) (authenticated) by smtp04.msg.oleane.net (MSA) with ESMTP id r2CFSOQQ018733 for ; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 16:28:24 +0100 X-Oleane-Rep: REPA From: "Michel Gosse" To: Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2013 16:28:25 +0100 Message-ID: <008601ce1f36$3d7054b0$b850fe10$@upperside.fr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0087_01CE1F3E.9F35F530" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: Ac4fNjz23jDXpiQ5S26Klq3VMRIngQ== Content-Language: fr X-PMX-Spam: Probability=10% X-PFSI-Info: PMX 5.5.9.395186, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2013.3.12.151215 (no antivirus check) X-Orange-Auth: bWcyNjMtM0B1cHBlc2lkZS5mci5mdG8= Subject: [mpls] MPLS World Congress 2013: Analysing the SDN Impact X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2013 15:28:29 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0087_01CE1F3E.9F35F530 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MPLS World will start next week, from 19 to 22 March. The 15th edition of the international congress will pay particular attention to SDN and OpenFlow impacts on MPLS architecture and designs. Other sessions will cover End-to-End, Mobile Backhaul, Protection, Data Center and Core Network issues. There is still time to register: http://www.uppersideconferences.com/ ------=_NextPart_000_0087_01CE1F3E.9F35F530 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

MPLS World = will start next week, from 19 to 22 March.

 

The 15th = edition of the international congress will pay particular attention to = SDN and OpenFlow impacts on MPLS architecture and = designs.

 

Other = sessions will cover End-to-End, Mobile Backhaul, Protection, Data Center = and Core Network issues.

 

There is = still time to register:

http://www.uppersideconfere= nces.com/

 =

------=_NextPart_000_0087_01CE1F3E.9F35F530-- From hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com Tue Mar 12 10:32:50 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9379911E80A6 for ; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 10:32:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.663 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.663 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_JP=1.244, HOST_EQ_JP=1.265, MIME_BASE64_TEXT=1.753, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Wo6lVVBCD7JQ for ; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 10:32:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail9.hitachi.co.jp (mail9.hitachi.co.jp [133.145.228.44]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3C7211E80A3 for ; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 10:32:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mlsv6.hitachi.co.jp (unknown [133.144.234.166]) by mail9.hitachi.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F06A37C84; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 02:32:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from mfilter06.hitachi.co.jp by mlsv6.hitachi.co.jp (8.13.1/8.13.1) id r2CHWhjZ008717; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 02:32:43 +0900 Received: from hitachi.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mfilter06.hitachi.co.jp (Switch-3.3.4/Switch-3.3.4) with ESMTP id r2CHWGZl017054; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 02:32:43 +0900 Received: from vshuts02.hitachi.co.jp ([vshuts02.hitachi.co.jp [10.201.6.84]]) by mfilter06.hitachi.co.jp with RELAY id r2CHWgaL017155 ; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 02:32:43 +0900 Received: from gmml25.itg.hitachi.co.jp (unknown [158.213.165.145]) by vshuts02.hitachi.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3755490041; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 02:32:41 +0900 (JST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] by gmml25.itg.hitachi.co.jp (AIX5.2/8.11.6p2/8.11.0) id r2CHWfr10203266; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 02:32:41 +0900 Message-Type: Multiple Part MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="GMAILSMTPBOUND01130313023235" To: From: Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 02:32:26 +0900 References: <512C960E.70109@pi.nu> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD962A2@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broa> Priority: normal Importance: normal X400-Content-Identifier: X513F669900000M X400-MTS-Identifier: [/C=JP/ADMD=HITNET/PRMD=HITACHI/;gmml28130313023209485] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: mpls@ietf.org, draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org, rcallon@juniper.net Subject: Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call on draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2013 17:32:50 -0000 --GMAILSMTPBOUND01130313023235 Content-Type: text/plain; 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Tue, 12 Mar 2013 11:01:57 -0700 From: "Shahram Davari" To: "Shahram Davari" , "Loa Andersson" , "mpls@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [mpls] 2nd working group last call on draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map Thread-Index: AQHOFBCqqpLwJbW2E0CMpYEjd57VtpiZGRXggAlS6/A= Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2013 18:01:55 +0000 Message-ID: <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9AAF4@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> References: <512C960E.70109@pi.nu> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD962A2@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> In-Reply-To: <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD962A2@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.16.203.100] MIME-Version: 1.0 X-WSS-ID: 7D21B28C0BG493466-01-01 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: "" , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call on draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2013 18:02:35 -0000 Hi, Although I mentioned I am Ok with the draft to be advanced to RFC, but afte= r reviewing it in more details it appears that the draft, in spite of its n= ame, does talk about UP-MEP at all and only talks about UP-MIP, while the f= igures show UP-MEPs for LSPs. Even if the scope of the draft is UP-MIP, co= nsidering that there can't be a MIP without a MEP, the draft should have s= ome wording regarding UP-MEPs and their applicability to LSPs and PWs. I wo= uld also argue that LSPs can't have UP-MEPs, since PWs from many ingress po= rts can enter an LSP and therefore the LSP can't start on the ingress inte= rface. A quick fix at this point is to mention UP-MEP is out of scope and change t= he figures to only show Down-MEPs. A better fix is to elaborate on UP-MEP a= nd its applicability and placement, etc. Regards, Shahram =20 -----Original Message----- From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Sha= hram Davari Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2013 11:30 AM To: Loa Andersson; mpls@ietf.org Cc: ; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-= tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org Subject: Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call on draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-m= ep-map My Comments are addressed and I support this draft to be published as Infor= mational RFC. Thx Shahram -----Original Message----- From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Loa= Andersson Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 3:02 AM To: mpls@ietf.org Cc: ; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-= tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org Subject: [mpls] 2nd working group last call on draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-m= ap Working Group, draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05.txt has been updated after a previous last call, due to the nature a and extent of the updates we have chosen to start a 2nd wg last call. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map There's also a htmlized version available at: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05 A diff from the previous version is available at: http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05 Please send your comments, including approval of the documents and the updates to the mpls working group list (mpls@ietf.org) This working group last call ends March 13, 2013. /Loa for the MPLS working group co-chairs --=20 Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu Huawei Technologies (consult) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 _______________________________________________ mpls mailing list mpls@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls _______________________________________________ mpls mailing list mpls@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls From hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com Tue Mar 12 11:19:48 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFE6C11E8115 for ; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 11:19:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.213 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.213 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.877, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_JP=1.244, HOST_EQ_JP=1.265, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HthujxHLLgka for ; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 11:19:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail7.hitachi.co.jp (mail7.hitachi.co.jp [133.145.228.42]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B42B11E80D5 for ; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 11:19:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mlsv5.hitachi.co.jp (unknown [133.144.234.166]) by mail7.hitachi.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A1E637AC2; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 03:19:45 +0900 (JST) Received: from mfilter03.hitachi.co.jp by mlsv5.hitachi.co.jp (8.13.1/8.13.1) id r2CIJjoF009932; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 03:19:45 +0900 Received: from vshuts04.hitachi.co.jp (vshuts04.hitachi.co.jp [10.201.6.86]) by mfilter03.hitachi.co.jp (Switch-3.3.4/Switch-3.3.4) with ESMTP id r2CIJiwe014641; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 03:19:44 +0900 Received: from gmml25.itg.hitachi.co.jp (unknown [158.213.165.145]) by vshuts04.hitachi.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4CF314003B; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 03:19:43 +0900 (JST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] by gmml25.itg.hitachi.co.jp (AIX5.2/8.11.6p2/8.11.0) id r2CIJhB10084550; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 03:19:43 +0900 Message-Type: Multiple Part MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii To: From: Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 03:19:30 +0900 References: <512C960E.70109@pi.nu> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD962A2@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broa> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9AAF4@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broa> Priority: normal Importance: normal X400-Content-Identifier: X513F719E00000M X400-MTS-Identifier: [/C=JP/ADMD=HITNET/PRMD=HITACHI/;gmml281303130319105BB] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: mpls@ietf.org, mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org, draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org, mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org Subject: Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2013 18:19:48 -0000 Hi Shahram, Just one comment. >I would also argue that LSPs can't have UP-MEPs, since PWs from many ingress ports can enter an LSP and therefore the LSP can't start on the ingress interface. I think this depends on implementations. Any RFC don't restrict to DOWN-MEPs in an LSP. Anyway, MEP mechanism is out of scope in this draft as you said. Thanks, Hideki Endo >Hi, > >Although I mentioned I am Ok with the draft to be advanced to RFC, but after reviewing it in more details it appears that the draft, in spite of its name, does talk about UP-MEP at all and only talks about UP-MIP, while the figures show UP-MEPs for LSPs. Even if the scope of the draft is UP-MIP, considering that there can't be a MIP without a MEP, the draft should have some wording regarding UP-MEPs and their applicability to LSPs and PWs. I would also argue that LSPs can't have UP-MEPs, since PWs from many ingress ports can enter an LSP and therefore the LSP can't start on the ingress interface. > >A quick fix at this point is to mention UP-MEP is out of scope and change the figures to only show Down-MEPs. A better fix is to elaborate on UP-MEP and its applicability and placement, etc. > >Regards, >Shahram > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Shahram Davari >Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2013 11:30 AM >To: Loa Andersson; mpls@ietf.org >Cc: ; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org >Subject: Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call on draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map > >My Comments are addressed and I support this draft to be published as Informational RFC. > >Thx >Shahram > >-----Original Message----- >From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Loa Andersson >Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 3:02 AM >To: mpls@ietf.org >Cc: ; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org >Subject: [mpls] 2nd working group last call on draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map > >Working Group, > >draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05.txt has been updated after a >previous last call, due to the nature a and extent of the updates >we have chosen to start a 2nd wg last call. > >The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: >https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map > >There's also a htmlized version available at: >http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05 > >A diff from the previous version is available at: >http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05 > >Please send your comments, including approval of the documents and >the updates to the mpls working group list (mpls@ietf.org) > >This working group last call ends March 13, 2013. > >/Loa >for the MPLS working group co-chairs >-- > > >Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com >Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu >Huawei Technologies (consult) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 >_______________________________________________ >mpls mailing list >mpls@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > > >_______________________________________________ >mpls mailing list >mpls@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > > >_______________________________________________ >mpls mailing list >mpls@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > From davari@broadcom.com Tue Mar 12 11:30:34 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5555C11E8138 for ; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 11:30:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id spFgdjdPzmag for ; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 11:30:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mms2.broadcom.com (mms2.broadcom.com [216.31.210.18]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6763911E810B for ; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 11:30:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.16.192.224] by mms2.broadcom.com with ESMTP (Broadcom SMTP Relay (Email Firewall v6.5)); Tue, 12 Mar 2013 11:26:18 -0700 X-Server-Uuid: 4500596E-606A-40F9-852D-14843D8201B2 Received: from SJEXCHCAS03.corp.ad.broadcom.com (10.16.203.9) by SJEXCHHUB01.corp.ad.broadcom.com (10.16.192.224) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.2.247.2; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 11:30:29 -0700 Received: from SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com ( [fe80::bc15:c1e1:c29a:36f7]) by SJEXCHCAS03.corp.ad.broadcom.com ( [::1]) with mapi id 14.01.0438.000; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 11:30:28 -0700 From: "Shahram Davari" To: "hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com" Thread-Topic: Re:Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map Thread-Index: AQHOH044DT2hQqtet0Odb2gEZWUkuZiiX56g Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2013 18:30:28 +0000 Message-ID: <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9AB6D@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> References: <512C960E.70109@pi.nu> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD962A2@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broa> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9AAF4@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broa> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.16.203.100] MIME-Version: 1.0 X-WSS-ID: 7D21ACC03C0586964-01-01 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org" , "mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2013 18:30:34 -0000 Hideki, So far no RFC or draft has talked about Down or UP MEP for LSPs. But if you= think about it logically LSPs can't have UP-MEP because LSP can carry many= PWs and each PW may enter the LSP from a different port/interface. PWs ca= n have UP-MEP but only for P2P services (VPWS), otherwise they can't have U= P-MEP either (same as LSP). My suggestion is to correct figures and change UP-MEPs to Down-MEPs for LSP= s. Also to mention UP-MEP is out of scope. Thx SD -----Original Message----- From: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com [mailto:hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com]=20 Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:20 AM To: Shahram Davari Cc: loa@pi.nu; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ie= tf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org Subject: Re:Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip= -mep-map Hi Shahram, Just one comment. >I would also argue that LSPs can't have UP-MEPs, since PWs from many ingre= ss ports can enter an LSP and therefore the LSP can't start on the ingress= interface. I think this depends on implementations. Any RFC don't restrict to DOWN-MEPs in an LSP. Anyway, MEP mechanism is out of scope in this draft as you said. Thanks, Hideki Endo >Hi, > >Although I mentioned I am Ok with the draft to be advanced to RFC, but aft= er reviewing it in more details it appears that the draft, in spite of its = name, does talk about UP-MEP at all and only talks about UP-MIP, while the = figures show UP-MEPs for LSPs. Even if the scope of the draft is UP-MIP, c= onsidering that there can't be a MIP without a MEP, the draft should have = some wording regarding UP-MEPs and their applicability to LSPs and PWs. I w= ould also argue that LSPs can't have UP-MEPs, since PWs from many ingress p= orts can enter an LSP and therefore the LSP can't start on the ingress int= erface. > >A quick fix at this point is to mention UP-MEP is out of scope and change = the figures to only show Down-MEPs. A better fix is to elaborate on UP-MEP = and its applicability and placement, etc. > >Regards, >Shahram > >=20 > >-----Original Message----- >From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Sh= ahram Davari >Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2013 11:30 AM >To: Loa Andersson; mpls@ietf.org >Cc: ; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls= -tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org >Subject: Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call on draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-= mep-map > >My Comments are addressed and I support this draft to be published as Info= rmational RFC. > >Thx >Shahram > >-----Original Message----- >From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Lo= a Andersson >Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 3:02 AM >To: mpls@ietf.org >Cc: ; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls= -tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org >Subject: [mpls] 2nd working group last call on draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-= map > >Working Group, > >draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05.txt has been updated after a >previous last call, due to the nature a and extent of the updates >we have chosen to start a 2nd wg last call. > >The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: >https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map > >There's also a htmlized version available at: >http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05 > >A diff from the previous version is available at: >http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05 > >Please send your comments, including approval of the documents and >the updates to the mpls working group list (mpls@ietf.org) > >This working group last call ends March 13, 2013. > >/Loa >for the MPLS working group co-chairs >--=20 > > >Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com >Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu >Huawei Technologies (consult) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 >_______________________________________________ >mpls mailing list >mpls@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > > >_______________________________________________ >mpls mailing list >mpls@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > > >_______________________________________________ >mpls mailing list >mpls@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > From curtis@occnc.com Tue Mar 12 11:50:28 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9D1711E8108 for ; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 11:50:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.162 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.162 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.667, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id APpc9pLcUt7V for ; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 11:50:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gateway1.orleans.occnc.com (unknown [173.9.106.132]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 884F711E80F3 for ; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 11:50:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from harbor1.ipv6.occnc.com (harbor1.ipv6.occnc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1545::2:819]) (authenticated bits=0) by gateway1.orleans.occnc.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r2CIn882022072; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 14:49:08 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from curtis@occnc.com) Message-Id: <201303121849.r2CIn882022072@gateway1.orleans.occnc.com> To: Tal Mizrahi From: Curtis Villamizar In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 12 Mar 2013 17:09:08 +0200." <74470498B659FA4687F0B0018C19A89C01A0F9726814@IL-MB01.marvell.com> Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2013 14:49:08 -0400 Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] Comments about draft-villamizar-mpls-forwarding X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: curtis@occnc.com List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2013 18:50:28 -0000 In message <74470498B659FA4687F0B0018C19A89C01A0F9726814@IL-MB01.marvell.com> Tal Mizrahi writes: > > Hi Curtis, Hi Tal, > Very interesting draft. I definitely think it is worth pursuing. Thank you for the comments. > Some comments below: > > 1. I think it is a good idea to describe the common practices of > where you draw the line between hardware and software. However, > as a chip vendor I do not feel comfortable with *mandating* what > should be implemented in hardware. > > Terms like: "hardware should", "hardware MUST be capable of", or > "MUST be recognized by hardware" are a bit harsh. > > In general, I suggest to relax the phrasing in a way that > describes what typically is done in hardware, but does mandate > what should be done in hardware. This is a very good comment. Just prior to the 01 version I went through the use of the words SHOULD and MUST (with help from Shane) and tried to do one of the following: 1. Find and existing RFC where SHOULD or MUST is already specified and cite it as the source of the requirement (not applicable in this case). 2. Change the wording to match SHOULD or MUST in an existing RFC. The same as #1. 3. Clearly indicate a recommendation that is not required for compliance but is required for some other reason such as provider scalability needs but retain strong wording. 4. Just make a statement about common practice and reasons and leave it at that. Any recommendation about implementing something in hardware should be of the form #4, unless there is strong evidence that it cannot be implemented without hardware support. Packet filtering or any other operation that may have to run at line rate qualifies. This is similar to the argument almost two decades ago about whether such things as packets with IP options, source routed packets, IP fragmentation, etc, needed to be in hardware. In some cases you could crash a router with too high a load of these so clearly these all had to be implemented in hardware. If you would like to meet here at IETF the two of us can go through each statement in the DoS and OAM sections and review the wording. If so, we can take this off line (I'll send another email without the WG on the Cc). If not, I will go through the wording and send a later reply. > 2. "2.1.3. Time Synchronization" > > a. I suggest to add a reference to IEEE 1588. I did not reference 1588 or ntp because the tictoc draft references these. I could add both references but the list is already long. > b. "It may be necessary to modify layer-2 checksums or frame check > sequences after insertion." - timestamping PTP/NTP over UDP/IP may > also require updating the UDP checksum. Yes. I am aware of that. I could mention this detail. The same is true about adding timestamps or packet and byte counts for MPLS-TP DM and LM OAM. > 3. "2.6. OAM and DoS Protection" > > a. I would suggest to separate this section into 2 subsections. In my > understanding (correct me if wrong) the connection between OAM and > DoS is a bit remote. What they have in common is neither is forwarding. These are packets handled by "the host" at this address. Some are in response to TTL expire. > b. RFC6374 is mentioned only in the context of MPLS-TP, even though > it is defined for MPLS. Thanks. This is a good point. However, LM in particular relies on in-order delivery of all traffic within the LSP which is always the case in MPLS, and in core is seldom the case. > c. You may want to mention protection switching, e.g., RFC 6378. I mention PSC by name. I'm not sure if I should cite rfc6378 or wait for 6378bis since rfc6378 is known to be broken. :-) Make sure to implement that in very programmable hardware. > Tal. Thanks for the very good comments. Curtis From gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com Tue Mar 12 11:56:37 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE8F921F8A67 for ; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 11:56:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pv-+8ShLTnPr for ; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 11:56:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usevmg20.ericsson.net (usevmg20.ericsson.net [198.24.6.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38B9A11E8176 for ; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 11:56:35 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c618062d-b7f0d6d00000097e-b4-513f7a6295dd Received: from EUSAAHC006.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [147.117.188.90]) by usevmg20.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id DD.64.02430.26A7F315; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 19:56:34 +0100 (CET) Received: from EUSAAMB103.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.120]) by EUSAAHC006.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.90]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.004; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 14:56:10 -0400 From: Gregory Mirsky To: Shahram Davari , "hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com" Thread-Topic: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working group last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) Thread-Index: AQHOH1NCxu+w5AH5Vkey9NP/4JqeRA== Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2013 18:56:09 +0000 Message-ID: <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF11206FBD5@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> References: <512C960E.70109@pi.nu> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD962A2@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broa> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9AAF4@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broa> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9AB6D@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> In-Reply-To: <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9AB6D@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [147.117.188.135] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF11206FBD5eusaamb103ericsso_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFmphkeLIzCtJLcpLzFFi42KZXLonSjepyj7QoL3DzGJ9r6dF862z7BbX v7xnsljysoPd4vulJSwWt5auZHVg85h1/yybR+uZNSweS5b8ZPL4cvkzWwBLFJdNSmpOZllq kb5dAldGf9dm9oK3pRUvb0xnbWB8l9rFyMkhIWAisXzpYVYIW0ziwr31bF2MXBxCAkcYJbbe X80C4SxnlNh76wQjSBWbgJHEi4097CC2iECqxOy+fjYQm1ngF1DHJT0QW1igWOLGjHtQNRUS O07NgbL1JJZ+mgRWzyKgKnFi7Q6wmbwC3hLLtu9mhFi2jkniT8M3sCJOgXCJK5+vgxUxAp33 /dQaJohl4hK3nsxngjhbQGLJnvPMELaoxMvH/6DeUZb4PucRC0R9vkTD5EdsEMsEJU7OfMIy gVF0FpJRs5CUzUJSBhHXkViw+xMbhK0tsWzha2YY+8yBx0zI4gsY2VcxcpQWp5blphsZbGIE xuQxCTbdHYx7XloeYpTmYFES5w1yvRAgJJCeWJKanZpakFoUX1Sak1p8iJGJg1OqgbG0Qv+k xR+mf0dP3GhY9ea5rJnIo4kCkzhZ2X+dq0+3sVnmbymkdcoz52bJHxYH7o6FlyvVJn98fvfl EY3Em/XbJ26Nyp2w+cu/vRo++w+cVL7T3N74oP6e/fGP1z/7Hpu24Otv9trbS448DV+wW+nY izjHlYpMQisWnBatv7bs42v/otc7QjblKrEUZyQaajEXFScCAHd7WtqXAgAA Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , "mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org" Subject: [mpls] On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: 2nd working group last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2013 18:56:37 -0000 --_000_7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF11206FBD5eusaamb103ericsso_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear All, What would be the most appropriate subject to continue this discussion? I'l= l give it a try, please feel free to change it. I think that there's nothing that can preclude from supporting UP MEP on MP= LS-TP LSP, according to UP MEP definition of RFC 6371, even when multpiple = PWs mapped to that LSP. Same, I think, is the true for p2mp PW. Note that = service, VPWS, is not part of MPLS-TP architecture. Regards, Greg -----Original Message----- From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Sha= hram Davari Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:30 AM To: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-m= ap@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org Subject: Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-me= p-map Hideki, So far no RFC or draft has talked about Down or UP MEP for LSPs. But if you= think about it logically LSPs can't have UP-MEP because LSP can carry many= PWs and each PW may enter the LSP from a different port/interface. PWs ca= n have UP-MEP but only for P2P services (VPWS), otherwise they can't have U= P-MEP either (same as LSP). My suggestion is to correct figures and change UP-MEPs to Down-MEPs for LSP= s. Also to mention UP-MEP is out of scope. Thx SD -----Original Message----- From: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com [mailto:hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:20 AM To: Shahram Davari Cc: loa@pi.nu; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ie= tf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org Subject: Re:Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip= -mep-map Hi Shahram, Just one comment. >I would also argue that LSPs can't have UP-MEPs, since PWs from many ingre= ss ports can enter an LSP and therefore the LSP can't start on the ingress= interface. I think this depends on implementations. Any RFC don't restrict to DOWN-MEPs in an LSP. Anyway, MEP mechanism is out of scope in this draft as you said. Thanks, Hideki Endo >Hi, > >Although I mentioned I am Ok with the draft to be advanced to RFC, but aft= er reviewing it in more details it appears that the draft, in spite of its = name, does talk about UP-MEP at all and only talks about UP-MIP, while the = figures show UP-MEPs for LSPs. Even if the scope of the draft is UP-MIP, c= onsidering that there can't be a MIP without a MEP, the draft should have = some wording regarding UP-MEPs and their applicability to LSPs and PWs. I w= ould also argue that LSPs can't have UP-MEPs, since PWs from many ingress p= orts can enter an LSP and therefore the LSP can't start on the ingress int= erface. > >A quick fix at this point is to mention UP-MEP is out of scope and change = the figures to only show Down-MEPs. A better fix is to elaborate on UP-MEP = and its applicability and placement, etc. > >Regards, >Shahram > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of >Shahram Davari >Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2013 11:30 AM >To: Loa Andersson; mpls@ietf.org >Cc: ; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; >draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org >Subject: Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call on >draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map > >My Comments are addressed and I support this draft to be published as Info= rmational RFC. > >Thx >Shahram > >-----Original Message----- >From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of >Loa Andersson >Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 3:02 AM >To: mpls@ietf.org >Cc: ; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; >draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org >Subject: [mpls] 2nd working group last call on >draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map > >Working Group, > >draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05.txt has been updated after a previous >last call, due to the nature a and extent of the updates we have chosen >to start a 2nd wg last call. > >The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: >https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map > >There's also a htmlized version available at: >http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05 > >A diff from the previous version is available at: >http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05 > >Please send your comments, including approval of the documents and the >updates to the mpls working group list (mpls@ietf.org) > >This working group last call ends March 13, 2013. > >/Loa >for the MPLS working group co-chairs >-- > > >Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com >Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu >Huawei Technologies (consult) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 >_______________________________________________ >mpls mailing list >mpls@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > > >_______________________________________________ >mpls mailing list >mpls@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > > >_______________________________________________ >mpls mailing list >mpls@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > _______________________________________________ mpls mailing list mpls@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls --_000_7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF11206FBD5eusaamb103ericsso_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear All,
What would be the most appropriate subject to continue this discussion= ? I'll give it a try, please feel free to change it.
 
I think that there's nothing that can preclude from supporting UP MEP = on MPLS-TP LSP, according to UP MEP definition of RFC 6371, even when multp= iple PWs mapped to that LSP. Same, I think, is the true for  p2mp PW. = Note that service, VPWS, is not part of MPLS-TP architecture.
 
        Regards,
           &nbs= p;    Greg
 
-----Original Message-----
From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [= mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Beh= alf Of Shahram Davari
Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:30 AM
To: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com
Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-= mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org
Subject: Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-m= ip-mep-map
 
Hideki,
 
So far no RFC or draft has talked about Down or UP MEP for LSPs. But i= f you think about it logically LSPs can't have UP-MEP because LSP can carry= many PWs and each PW may enter the LSP from a different port/interface.&nb= sp; PWs can have UP-MEP but only for P2P services (VPWS), otherwise they can't have UP-MEP either (same as LSP).=
 
My suggestion is to correct figures and change UP-MEPs to Down-MEPs fo= r LSPs. Also to mention UP-MEP is out of scope.
 
Thx
SD
 
-----Original Message-----
From: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com [mailto:hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:20 AM
To: Shahram Davari
Cc: loa@pi.nu; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org; mpls-chairs@too= ls.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org
Subject: Re:Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-t= p-mip-mep-map
 
Hi Shahram,
 
Just one comment.
 
>I would also argue that LSPs can't have UP-MEPs, since PWs from ma= ny ingress ports can enter an LSP  and therefore the LSP can't start o= n the ingress interface.
 
I think this depends on implementations.
Any RFC don't restrict to DOWN-MEPs in an LSP.
 
Anyway, MEP mechanism is out of scope in this draft as you said.
 
Thanks,
Hideki Endo
 
>Hi,
>
>Although I mentioned I am Ok with the draft to be advanced to RFC,= but after reviewing it in more details it appears that the draft, in spite= of its name, does talk about UP-MEP at all and only talks about UP-MIP, wh= ile the figures show UP-MEPs for LSPs.  Even if the scope of the draft is UP-MIP, considering that there can't be a= MIP without a MEP,  the draft should have some wording regarding UP-M= EPs and their applicability to LSPs and PWs. I would also argue that LSPs c= an't have UP-MEPs, since PWs from many ingress ports can enter an LSP  and therefore the LSP can't start on t= he ingress interface.
>
>A quick fix at this point is to mention UP-MEP is out of scope and= change the figures to only show Down-MEPs. A better fix is to elaborate on= UP-MEP and its applicability and placement, etc.
>
>Regards,
>Shahram
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On= Behalf Of
>Shahram Davari
>Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2013 11:30 AM
>To: Loa Andersson; mpls@ietf.org
>Cc: <mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org>; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; <= /div>
>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org
>Subject: Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call on
>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map
>
>My Comments are addressed and I support this draft to be published= as Informational  RFC.
>
>Thx
>Shahram
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On= Behalf Of
>Loa Andersson
>Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 3:02 AM
>To: mpls@ietf.org
>Cc: <mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org>; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; <= /div>
>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org
>Subject: [mpls] 2nd working group last call on
>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map
>
>Working Group,
>
>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05.txt has been updated after a pre= vious
>last call, due to the nature a and extent of the updates we have c= hosen
>to start a 2nd wg last call.
>
>The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
>
>There's also a htmlized version available at:
>
>A diff from the previous version is available at:
>
>Please send your comments, including approval of the documents and= the
>updates to the mpls working group list (mpls@ietf.org)
>
>This working group last call ends March 13, 2013.
>
>/Loa
>for the MPLS working group co-chairs
>--
>
>
>Loa Andersson         = ;            &n= bsp;  email: loa@mail01.huawei.com
>Senior MPLS Expert        =             &nb= sp;     loa@pi.nu
>Huawei Technologies (consult)      &= nbsp; phone: +46 739 81 21 64
>_______________________________________________
>mpls mailing list
>mpls@ietf.org
>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>mpls mailing list
>mpls@ietf.org
>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>mpls mailing list
>mpls@ietf.org
>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>
 
 
_______________________________________________
mpls mailing list
mpls@ietf.org
 
 --_000_7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF11206FBD5eusaamb103ericsso_-- From Rolf.Winter@neclab.eu Tue Mar 12 12:52:44 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B94E111E819F for ; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 12:52:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -103.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rZm5lYChW4bX for ; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 12:52:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailer1.neclab.eu (mailer1.neclab.eu [195.37.70.40]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36ADE11E818C for ; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 12:52:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailer1.neclab.eu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93686103707; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 20:52:41 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: Amavisd on Debian GNU/Linux (netlab.nec.de) Received: from mailer1.neclab.eu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (atlas-a.office.hd [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id B59k6WbZWrwp; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 20:52:41 +0100 (CET) Received: from METHONE.office.hd (methone.office.hd [192.168.24.54]) by mailer1.neclab.eu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71C88103706; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 20:52:11 +0100 (CET) Received: from PALLENE.office.hd ([169.254.1.80]) by METHONE.office.hd ([192.168.24.54]) with mapi id 14.01.0323.003; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 20:52:11 +0100 From: Rolf Winter To: Pablo Frank , Shahram Davari Thread-Topic: [mpls] 2nd working group last call on draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map Thread-Index: AQHOHzSfUpLhiF4oLU2qLaEy09KzYZiidu8w Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2013 19:51:35 +0000 Message-ID: <791AD3077F94194BB2BDD13565B6295D555D41C3@PALLENE.office.hd> References: <512C960E.70109@pi.nu> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD962A2@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US, de-DE Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.7.0.196] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , "" , "draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call on draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2013 19:52:44 -0000 Hi, the wording is not as explicit as you suggest but for a requirement I perso= nally feel that is alright since we do not yet know how the solution looks = like. In other words, once a solution is proposed it is up to the WG to dec= ide whether the overhead of that particular solution is acceptable or not.= =20 Best, Rolf NEC Europe Ltd | Registered Office: Athene, Odyssey Business Park, West End= Road, London, HA4 6QE, GB | Registered in England 2832014 > -----Original Message----- > From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > Pablo Frank > Sent: Dienstag, 12. M=E4rz 2013 16:16 > To: Shahram Davari > Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip- > mep-map@tools.ietf.org; > Subject: Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call on draft-ietf-mpls-tp- > mip-mep-map >=20 > I'm still a little wary of the wording on pg. 9, 4th bullet. Currently, > the draft suggests that packet inspection needs to be minimized. My > concern with the original solution proposal was that it required a new > line-rate *lookup*. There was a secondary concern around parsing TLVs > which this point *does* appear to address, but minimizing 'inspection' > does not seem to preclude new lookups. One of the nice things about > MPLS OAM as it's defined today is that relatively easy to get off-the- > shelf forwarding hardware to trap / redirect OAM frames to a separate > OAM block that could perform the OAM validation and lookups. This is > because encountering a GACh or a TTL expiry as part of regular MPLS > handling unambiguously terminates the frame (and note that it doesn't > require an OAM-specific lookup in the main-line forwarding hardware). > I'd like this draft to set avoiding new OAM-specific lookups as a > design objective, or you risk precluding a whole class of (cheap, high > volume) hardware from being able to do this function. >=20 > regards, > Pablo >=20 >=20 > On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 2:30 PM, Shahram Davari > wrote: >=20 >=20 > My Comments are addressed and I support this draft to be > published as Informational RFC. >=20 > Thx > Shahram >=20 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On > Behalf Of Loa Andersson > Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 3:02 AM > To: mpls@ietf.org > Cc: ; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft- > ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org > Subject: [mpls] 2nd working group last call on draft-ietf-mpls- > tp-mip-mep-map >=20 > Working Group, >=20 > draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05.txt has been updated after a > previous last call, due to the nature a and extent of the updates > we have chosen to start a 2nd wg last call. >=20 > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map >=20 > There's also a htmlized version available at: > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05 >=20 > A diff from the previous version is available at: > http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map- > 05 >=20 > Please send your comments, including approval of the documents > and > the updates to the mpls working group list (mpls@ietf.org) >=20 > This working group last call ends March 13, 2013. >=20 > /Loa > for the MPLS working group co-chairs > -- >=20 >=20 > Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com > Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu > Huawei Technologies (consult) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 > > _______________________________________________ > mpls mailing list > mpls@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > mpls mailing list > mpls@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls >=20 >=20 From alessandro.dalessandro@telecomitalia.it Tue Mar 12 15:07:42 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B88B621F8D1C for ; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 15:07:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.719 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.719 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_IT=0.635, HOST_EQ_IT=1.245, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id w7Gahs04QHw1 for ; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 15:07:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from GRFEDG702RM001.telecomitalia.it (grfedg702rm001.telecomitalia.it [217.169.121.21]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB42721F8D10 for ; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 15:07:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from TELHUB002RM001.telecomitalia.local (10.19.3.67) by GRFEDG702RM001.telecomitalia.it (10.173.88.21) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.3.297.1; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 23:07:38 +0100 Received: from TELMBB002RM001.telecomitalia.local ([169.254.3.152]) by TELHUB002RM001.telecomitalia.local ([10.19.3.67]) with mapi id 14.02.0328.009; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 23:07:37 +0100 From: D'Alessandro Alessandro Gerardo To: "mpls@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [mpls] IPR poll on draft-ietf-mpls-tp-temporal-hitless-psm Thread-Index: AQHOHvk/5tUBTMocaE2HTHu0yAqI5Ziind3A Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2013 22:07:37 +0000 Message-ID: <22257C41A415324A984CD03D63344E270514DB4E@TELMBB002RM001.telecomitalia.local> References: <513B1A2D.8020106@pi.nu> <513EE3BF.1010703@lab.ntt.co.jp> In-Reply-To: <513EE3BF.1010703@lab.ntt.co.jp> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: it-IT X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.19.10.81] x-ti-disclaimer: Disclaimer1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: [mpls] R: IPR poll on draft-ietf-mpls-tp-temporal-hitless-psm X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2013 22:07:42 -0000 I'm not aware of any relevant IPR Regards, Alessandro ------------------------------------------------------------------ Telecom Italia Alessandro Gerardo D'Alessandro Transport Innovation Via Reiss Romoli, 274 - 10148 Torino phone: +39 011 228 5887 mobile: +39 335 766 9607 fax: +39 06 418 639 07 -----Messaggio originale----- Da: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] Per conto di Yoshi= nori Koike Inviato: marted=EC 12 marzo 2013 09:14 A: mpls@ietf.org Oggetto: Re: [mpls] IPR poll on draft-ietf-mpls-tp-temporal-hitless-psm I'm not aware of any IPR applicable to this draft. Regards, Yoshinori (2013/03/09 20:17), Loa Andersson wrote: > Working Group and authors; > > The authors of draft-ietf-mpls-tp-temporal-hitless-psm has indicated > that the draft is ready working group last call. > > Since we never done an IPR poll on this draft we will do this before > starting the working group last call to check whether there is IPR > on the document that needs to be disclosed. > > This mail starts that IPR poll. > > Are you aware of any IPR that applies to draft-ietf-mpls-tp- > temporal-hitless-psm? > > If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules > (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details). > > If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond to > this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any relevant > IPR. *The response needs to be sent to the MPLS wg mailing list.* The > documents will not advance to the next stage until a response > has been received from each author and contributor. > > If you are on the MPLS WG email list but are not listed as an author or > contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any > IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules. > > > Thanks, Loa > (as MPLS WG co-chair) -- Yoshinori Koike koike.yoshinori@lab.ntt.co.jp _______________________________________________ mpls mailing list mpls@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls Questo messaggio e i suoi allegati sono indirizzati esclusivamente alle per= sone indicate. La diffusione, copia o qualsiasi altra azione derivante dall= a conoscenza di queste informazioni sono rigorosamente vietate. Qualora abb= iate ricevuto questo documento per errore siete cortesemente pregati di dar= ne immediata comunicazione al mittente e di provvedere alla sua distruzione= , Grazie. This e-mail and any attachments is confidential and may contain privileged = information intended for the addressee(s) only. Dissemination, copying, pri= nting or use by anybody else is unauthorised. If you are not the intended r= ecipient, please delete this message and any attachments and advise the sen= der by return e-mail, Thanks. From Manuel.Paul@telekom.de Tue Mar 12 15:13:21 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 727A011E812D for ; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 15:13:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.249 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.249 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9BXnQTj9u2fa for ; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 15:13:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tcmail13.telekom.de (tcmail13.telekom.de [80.149.113.165]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 453E411E810D for ; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 15:13:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from he111297.emea1.cds.t-internal.com ([10.125.90.15]) by tcmail11.telekom.de with ESMTP/TLS/AES128-SHA; 12 Mar 2013 23:13:08 +0100 Received: from HE113558.emea1.cds.t-internal.com (10.125.65.100) by HE111297.EMEA1.CDS.T-INTERNAL.COM (10.125.90.15) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.3.297.1; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 23:13:07 +0100 Received: from HE101452.emea1.cds.t-internal.com ([10.125.92.148]) by HE113558.emea1.cds.t-internal.com ([::1]) with mapi; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 23:13:07 +0100 From: To: , , , , Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2013 23:13:05 +0100 Thread-Topic: IPR poll on draft-ietf-mpls-tp-temporal-hitless-psm Thread-Index: Ac4ct6HHjVCFtZvXThyVTnP4rDVADQCtw3/A Message-ID: <9435EDACD941174099E143BCA2BCD615010063177516@HE101452.emea1.cds.t-internal.com> References: <513B1A2D.8020106@pi.nu> In-Reply-To: <513B1A2D.8020106@pi.nu> Accept-Language: de-DE Content-Language: de-DE X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: de-DE Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [mpls] IPR poll on draft-ietf-mpls-tp-temporal-hitless-psm X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2013 22:13:21 -0000 > Are you aware of any IPR that applies to draft-ietf-mpls-tp- > temporal-hitless-psm? No. Cheers Manuel -----Original Message----- From: Loa Andersson [mailto:loa@pi.nu] Sent: Saturday, March 09, 2013 6:17 AM To: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; Martin Vigoureux; draft-ietf= -mpls-tp-temporal-hitless-psm@tools.ietf.org Subject: IPR poll on draft-ietf-mpls-tp-temporal-hitless-psm Working Group and authors; The authors of draft-ietf-mpls-tp-temporal-hitless-psm has indicated that the draft is ready working group last call. Since we never done an IPR poll on this draft we will do this before starting the working group last call to check whether there is IPR on the document that needs to be disclosed. This mail starts that IPR poll. Are you aware of any IPR that applies to draft-ietf-mpls-tp- temporal-hitless-psm? If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details). If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond to this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any relevant IPR. *The response needs to be sent to the MPLS wg mailing list.* The documents will not advance to the next stage until a response has been received from each author and contributor. If you are on the MPLS WG email list but are not listed as an author or contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules. Thanks, Loa (as MPLS WG co-chair) -- Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu Huawei Technologies (consult) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 From eosborne@cisco.com Tue Mar 12 15:14:08 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CA8011E8153 for ; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 15:14:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -8.846 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-8.846 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_BASE64_TEXT=1.753, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id c0BRtDUDPzWU for ; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 15:14:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com [173.37.86.74]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36F5711E813A for ; Tue, 12 Mar 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cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Tue, 12 Mar 2013 22:14:06 GMT Received: from xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com ([169.254.9.206]) by xhc-rcd-x03.cisco.com ([173.37.183.77]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.004; Tue, 12 Mar 2013 17:14:06 -0500 From: "Eric Osborne (eosborne)" To: "mpls@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Resolving the most recent ITU liaison statement on PSC Thread-Index: Ac4fbEFygXKfAcxcSDOcaerIb5nsSg== Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2013 22:14:05 +0000 Message-ID: <20ECF67871905846A80F77F8F4A275721010CD61@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.82.237.201] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ks_c_5601-1987" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "Huub van Helvoort \(huubatwork@gmail.com\)" Subject: [mpls] Resolving the most recent ITU liaison statement on PSC X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2013 22:14:08 -0000 V0ctDQoNCiAgQXMgeW91IHByb2JhYmx5IGtub3csIHRoZXJlIGhhdmUgYmVlbiBhIHNlcmllcyBv ZiBsaWFpc29uIHN0YXRlbWVudHMgZXhjaGFuZ2VkIGJldHdlZW4gdGhlIElUVSBhbmQgdGhlIE1Q TFMgV0cgb24gUFNDLiAgVGhlIG1vc3QgcmVjZW50IExTIGlzIHRoaXMgb25lOg0KaHR0cDovL2Rh dGF0cmFja2VyLmlldGYub3JnL2xpYWlzb24vMTIzNC8NCg0KYW5kIHRoZSBpbmRleCBvZiBhbGwg b2YgdGhlbSBpcyBoZXJlOg0KaHR0cDovL2RhdGF0cmFja2VyLmlldGYub3JnL2xpYWlzb24vDQoN CihJIHdpbGwgcmVmZXIgdG8gdGhlIG1vc3QgcmVjZW50IGxpYWlzb24gYXMgTFMwMDUgYXMgdGhh dCdzIHdoYXQgdGhlIElUVSBjYWxsZWQgaXQpDQoNCkxTMDA1IHJhaXNlZCB0ZW4gcG9pbnRzIHRo YXQgd2UgbmVlZCB0byBjb21lIHRvIGNsb3N1cmUgb24uICAnY29tZSB0byBjbG9zdXJlJyBkb2Vz IG5vdCBtZWFuICJhZ3JlZSB0byBpbXBsZW1lbnQiIG9yICJkaWcgaW4gYWdhaW5zdCIuICBJdCBt ZWFucyAiYXMgYSBXRywgZmlndXJlIG91dCB3aGF0LCBpZiBhbnl0aGluZywgd2Ugc2hvdWxkIGRv IHdpdGggdGhvc2UgcG9pbnRzIi4NCg0KQSBudW1iZXIgb2YgdXMgbWV0IGVhcmxpZXIgdG9kYXkg 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(PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0G+DyRXT6oOl for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 10:55:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp4.iomartmail.com (asmtp4.iomartmail.com [62.128.201.175]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE7BF21F8AD5 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 10:55:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp4.iomartmail.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by asmtp4.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r2DHtMEe021780 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 17:55:22 GMT Received: from Mal (dhcp-1128.meeting.ietf.org [130.129.17.40]) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp4.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r2DHtJKm021769 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 17:55:21 GMT From: "Daniel King" To: References: <5135CA50.8060402@pi.nu> <76CD132C3ADEF848BD84D028D243C927327C8CCE@szxeml504-mbs.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <76CD132C3ADEF848BD84D028D243C927327C8CCE@szxeml504-mbs.china.huawei.com> Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 13:55:24 -0400 Message-ID: <001301ce2013$f1652c10$d42f8430$@olddog.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 15.0 Thread-Index: AQHSiP8bmk/Sc2b9Rd9VbaRDVli1rgI+xByimIkfeSA= Content-Language: en-gb Subject: Re: [mpls] poll to to see if we have support to make draft-weingarten-mpls-smp-requirements a working group document X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 17:55:25 -0000 Support. Br, Dan (draft-weingarten-mpls-smp-requirements Contributor) -----Original Message----- From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Jie Dong Sent: 08 March 2013 23:33 To: Loa Andersson; mpls@ietf.org Cc: ; draft-weingarten-mpls-smp-requirements@tools.ietf.org Subject: Re: [mpls] poll to to see if we have support to make draft-weingarten-mpls-smp-requirements a working group document Support. Regards, Jie > -----Original Message----- > From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf > Of Loa Andersson > Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2013 1:35 PM > To: mpls@ietf.org > Cc: ; > draft-weingarten-mpls-smp-requirements@tools.ietf.org > Subject: [mpls] poll to to see if we have support to make > draft-weingarten-mpls-smp-requirements a working group document > > Working Group, > > This is to start a two week poll on adopting > draft-weingarten-mpls-smp-requirements-03 as an MPLS working group > document. > > Please send your comments (support/not support) to the mpls working > group mailing list (mpls at ietf.org). Please give a technical > motivation for your support/not support, especially if you think that > the document should not be adopted as a working group document. > > This poll ends March 20, 2013. > > There are no IPR claim against this document. > > The authors has stated on the working group mailing list that they are > not aware of any other IPR claims against this draft. > However if you are on the the mpls working group mailing list and > aware of IPR that relates to this draft, the time to disclose this is now. > > /Loa > (mpls wg co-chair) > > -- > > > Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com > Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu > Huawei Technologies (consult) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 > _______________________________________________ > mpls mailing list > mpls@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls _______________________________________________ mpls mailing list mpls@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls From satoshi.ueno@ntt.com Wed Mar 13 11:39:52 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C25221F8994 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 11:39:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7Lq5tNs+fml7 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 11:39:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mgw010.noc.ntt.com (mgw010.noc.ntt.com [210.160.55.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DDC421F8935 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 11:39:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from c0043i0.coe.ntt.com (unknown [10.18.161.12]) by mgw010.noc.ntt.com (NTT Com MailSV) with ESMTP id 522E657A0836; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 03:39:50 +0900 (JST) Received: from C0036I0.coe.ntt.com (10.18.160.40) by c0043i0.coe.ntt.com (10.18.161.12) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.438.0; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 03:39:48 +0900 Received: from C0017I0.coe.ntt.com ([169.254.3.105]) by C0036I0.coe.ntt.com ([10.18.160.40]) with mapi id 14.01.0438.000; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 03:39:49 +0900 From: Satoshi Ueno To: Loa Andersson , "mpls@ietf.org" , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , Martin Vigoureux Thread-Topic: [mpls] IPR poll on draft-ietf-mpls-tp-temporal-hitless-psm Thread-Index: AQHOHLegWByBebqy2Ueg7mynX8grh5ij+grA Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 18:39:48 +0000 Message-ID: <737C61BA4FC0A94AA5FD41446EA31A3C39AB44@C0017I0.coe.ntt.com> References: <513B1A2D.8020106@pi.nu> In-Reply-To: <513B1A2D.8020106@pi.nu> Accept-Language: ja-JP, en-US Content-Language: ja-JP X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ccmail-original-to: loa@pi.nu, mpls@ietf.org, mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org, martin.vigoureux@alcatel-lucent.com x-originating-ip: [10.25.6.44] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-2022-jp" MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [mpls] IPR poll on draft-ietf-mpls-tp-temporal-hitless-psm X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 18:39:52 -0000 I'm not aware of any IPR that applies to this draft. Best Regards, Satoshi > -----Original Message----- > From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > Loa Andersson > Sent: Saturday, March 09, 2013 8:17 PM > To: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; Martin Vigoureux; > draft-ietf-mpls-tp-temporal-hitless-psm@tools.ietf.org > Subject: [mpls] IPR poll on draft-ietf-mpls-tp-temporal-hitless-psm > > Working Group and authors; > > The authors of draft-ietf-mpls-tp-temporal-hitless-psm has indicated that > the draft is ready working group last call. > > Since we never done an IPR poll on this draft we will do this before starting > the working group last call to check whether there is IPR on the document > that needs to be disclosed. > > This mail starts that IPR poll. > > Are you aware of any IPR that applies to draft-ietf-mpls-tp- > temporal-hitless-psm? > > If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules (see > RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details). > > If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond to > this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any relevant IPR. > *The response needs to be sent to the MPLS wg mailing list.* The documents > will not advance to the next stage until a response has been received from > each author and contributor. > > If you are on the MPLS WG email list but are not listed as an author or > contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any > IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules. > > > Thanks, Loa > (as MPLS WG co-chair) > -- > > > Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com > Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu > Huawei Technologies (consult) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 > _______________________________________________ > mpls mailing list > mpls@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls From c-sai@bx.jp.nec.com Wed Mar 13 11:46:37 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E214811E80EA for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 11:46:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.09 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.09 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_JP=1.244, HOST_EQ_JP=1.265, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IpzsKDTY7zxu for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 11:46:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tyo202.gate.nec.co.jp (TYO202.gate.nec.co.jp [210.143.35.52]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A757B11E80BA for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 11:46:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailgate3.nec.co.jp ([10.7.69.195]) by tyo202.gate.nec.co.jp (8.13.8/8.13.4) with ESMTP id r2DIkSDw010936; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 03:46:28 +0900 (JST) Received: (from root@localhost) by mailgate3.nec.co.jp (8.11.7/3.7W-MAILGATE-NEC) id r2DIkSR21354; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 03:46:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from mail01b.kamome.nec.co.jp (mail01b.kamome.nec.co.jp [10.25.43.2]) by mailsv4.nec.co.jp (8.13.8/8.13.4) with ESMTP id r2DIkRgA020115; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 03:46:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from genzui.jp.nec.com ([10.26.220.13] [10.26.220.13]) by mail02.kamome.nec.co.jp with ESMTP id BT-MMP-2385640; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 03:44:42 +0900 Received: from vpcja157 ([10.38.16.157] [10.38.16.157]) by mail.jp.nec.com with ESMTPA id BT-MMP-1428; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 03:44:41 +0900 From: "Zhenlong Cui" To: "'Gregory Mirsky'" , "'Shahram Davari'" , References: <512C960E.70109@pi.nu><4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD962A2@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broa><4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9AAF4@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broa><4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9AB6D@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF11206FBD5@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 03:44:39 +0900 Message-ID: <019F8CB7F5324E979B052BD3E35DF1A6@nsl.ad.nec.co.jp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF11206FBD5@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> Thread-Index: AQHOH1NCxu+w5AH5Vkey9NP/4JqeRJij8a7Q X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5931 Cc: mpls@ietf.org, mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org, draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org, mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org Subject: Re: [mpls] On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: 2nd working group last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 18:46:38 -0000 Hi Shahram, Some, at least in case of ring topology, the LSP UP-MEP is a necessity. As you know, a intermediate node on a ring network have to supports Swap = & POP processing. There are some OAM models should be taken into consideration for = intermediate node, as follows: (1) Set Down-MEP only If we support the down-mep only and set down-mep at Down I/F(swap = point), OAM will not be transmitted to downstream node. (2) Set Down-MIP and UP-MIP For support the LSP Protection at the intermediate node, the MEP must = be set at the POP Point. =20 Note: MPLS-TP recovery in a ring must protect unidirectional P2MP transport = paths as specified in RFC 5654. (3) Set Down-MIP and UP-MEP This model can solve above model's issues. Best regards, zhenlong ________________________________________ From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of = Gregory Mirsky Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 3:56 AM To: Shahram Davari; hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org; = draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org Subject: [mpls] On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: 2nd working group = last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) Dear All, What would be the most appropriate subject to continue this discussion? = I'll give it a try, please feel free to change it.=20 =A0 I think that there's nothing that can preclude from supporting UP MEP on = MPLS-TP LSP, according to UP MEP definition of RFC 6371, even when multpiple PWs mapped to that LSP. Same, I think, is the true = for=A0 p2mp PW. Note that service, VPWS, is not part of MPLS-TP architecture. =A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Regards, =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Greg =A0 -----Original Message----- From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of = Shahram Davari Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:30 AM To: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; = draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org Subject: Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call = ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map =A0 Hideki, =A0 So far no RFC or draft has talked about Down or UP MEP for LSPs. But if = you think about it logically LSPs can't have UP-MEP because LSP can carry many PWs and each PW may enter the LSP from a different = port/interface.=A0 PWs can have UP-MEP but only for P2P services (VPWS), otherwise they can't have UP-MEP either (same as LSP). =A0 My suggestion is to correct figures and change UP-MEPs to Down-MEPs for = LSPs. Also to mention UP-MEP is out of scope. =A0 Thx SD =A0 -----Original Message----- From: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com [mailto:hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:20 AM To: Shahram Davari Cc: loa@pi.nu; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org; = mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; = draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org Subject: Re:Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call = ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map =A0 Hi Shahram, =A0 Just one comment. =A0 >I would also argue that LSPs can't have UP-MEPs, since PWs from many = ingress ports can enter an LSP=A0 and therefore the LSP can't start on the ingress interface. =A0 I think this depends on implementations. Any RFC don't restrict to DOWN-MEPs in an LSP. =A0 Anyway, MEP mechanism is out of scope in this draft as you said. =A0 Thanks, Hideki Endo =A0 >Hi, > >Although I mentioned I am Ok with the draft to be advanced to RFC, but = after reviewing it in more details it appears that the draft, in spite of its name, does talk about UP-MEP at all and only = talks about UP-MIP, while the figures show UP-MEPs for LSPs.=A0 Even if the scope of the draft is UP-MIP, considering that there can't = be a MIP without a MEP,=A0 the draft should have some wording regarding UP-MEPs and their applicability to LSPs and PWs. I would also = argue that LSPs can't have UP-MEPs, since PWs from many ingress ports can enter an LSP=A0 and therefore the LSP can't start on = the ingress interface. > >A quick fix at this point is to mention UP-MEP is out of scope and = change the figures to only show Down-MEPs. A better fix is to elaborate on UP-MEP and its applicability and placement, etc. > >Regards, >Shahram > >=20 > >-----Original Message----- >From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of = >Shahram Davari >Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2013 11:30 AM >To: Loa Andersson; mpls@ietf.org >Cc: ; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org;=20 >draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org >Subject: Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call on=20 >draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map > >My Comments are addressed and I support this draft to be published as = Informational=A0 RFC. > >Thx >Shahram > >-----Original Message----- >From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of = >Loa Andersson >Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 3:02 AM >To: mpls@ietf.org >Cc: ; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org;=20 >draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org >Subject: [mpls] 2nd working group last call on=20 >draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map > >Working Group, > >draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05.txt has been updated after a previous = >last call, due to the nature a and extent of the updates we have chosen = >to start a 2nd wg last call. > >The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: >https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map > >There's also a htmlized version available at: >http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05 > >A diff from the previous version is available at: >http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05 > >Please send your comments, including approval of the documents and the=20 >updates to the mpls working group list (mpls@ietf.org) > >This working group last call ends March 13, 2013. > >/Loa >for the MPLS working group co-chairs >-- > > >Loa = Andersson=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0 email: loa@mail01.huawei.com >Senior MPLS = Expert=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0 loa@pi.nu >Huawei Technologies (consult)=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 phone: +46 739 81 21 = 64 >_______________________________________________ >mpls mailing list >mpls@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > > >_______________________________________________ >mpls mailing list >mpls@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > > >_______________________________________________ >mpls mailing list >mpls@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > =A0 =A0 _______________________________________________ mpls mailing list mpls@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls =A0 From davari@broadcom.com Wed Mar 13 11:53:48 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BFD411E8108 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 11:53:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KB0hb7ck1jhd for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 11:53:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mms2.broadcom.com (mms2.broadcom.com [216.31.210.18]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 627E311E80F3 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 11:53:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.16.192.232] by mms2.broadcom.com with ESMTP (Broadcom SMTP Relay (Email Firewall v6.5)); Wed, 13 Mar 2013 11:49:25 -0700 X-Server-Uuid: 4500596E-606A-40F9-852D-14843D8201B2 Received: from SJEXCHCAS04.corp.ad.broadcom.com (10.16.203.11) by SJEXCHHUB02.corp.ad.broadcom.com (10.16.192.232) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.2.247.2; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 11:53:33 -0700 Received: from SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com ( [fe80::bc15:c1e1:c29a:36f7]) by SJEXCHCAS04.corp.ad.broadcom.com ( [::1]) with mapi id 14.01.0438.000; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 11:53:12 -0700 From: "Shahram Davari" To: "Zhenlong Cui" , "'Gregory Mirsky'" , "hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com" Thread-Topic: [mpls] On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: 2nd working group last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) Thread-Index: AQHOIBsi00XsWI0hikmKiznQeJ7/zJij96ug Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 18:53:12 +0000 Message-ID: <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9BA08@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> References: <512C960E.70109@pi.nu><4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD962A2@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broa><4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9AAF4@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broa><4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9AB6D@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF11206FBD5@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <019F8CB7F5324E979B052BD3E35DF1A6@nsl.ad.nec.co.jp> In-Reply-To: <019F8CB7F5324E979B052BD3E35DF1A6@nsl.ad.nec.co.jp> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.16.203.100] MIME-Version: 1.0 X-WSS-ID: 7D5E15B83C01285727-21-01 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org" , "mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: 2nd working group last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 18:53:48 -0000 Hi, I don't really understand what you are trying to say. Can you provide an ex= ample. Thx SD -----Original Message----- From: Zhenlong Cui [mailto:c-sai@bx.jp.nec.com]=20 Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 11:45 AM To: 'Gregory Mirsky'; Shahram Davari; hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org; dra= ft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org Subject: RE: [mpls] On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: 2nd working group la= st call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) Hi Shahram, Some, at least in case of ring topology, the LSP UP-MEP is a necessity. As you know, a intermediate node on a ring network have to supports Swap & = POP processing. There are some OAM models should be taken into consideration for intermedia= te node, as follows: (1) Set Down-MEP only If we support the down-mep only and set down-mep at Down I/F(swap point), = OAM will not be transmitted to downstream node. (2) Set Down-MIP and UP-MIP For support the LSP Protection at the intermediate node, the MEP must be s= et at the POP Point. =20 Note: MPLS-TP recovery in a ring must protect unidirectional P2MP transport pat= hs as specified in RFC 5654. (3) Set Down-MIP and UP-MEP This model can solve above model's issues. Best regards, zhenlong ________________________________________ From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Gre= gory Mirsky Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 3:56 AM To: Shahram Davari; hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org; dra= ft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org Subject: [mpls] On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: 2nd working group last c= all ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) Dear All, What would be the most appropriate subject to continue this discussion? I'l= l give it a try, please feel free to change it.=20 =A0 I think that there's nothing that can preclude from supporting UP MEP on MP= LS-TP LSP, according to UP MEP definition of RFC 6371, even when multpiple PWs mapped to that LSP. Same, I think, is the true for= =A0 p2mp PW. Note that service, VPWS, is not part of MPLS-TP architecture. =A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Regards, =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Greg =A0 -----Original Message----- From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Sha= hram Davari Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:30 AM To: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-m= ap@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org Subject: Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-me= p-map =A0 Hideki, =A0 So far no RFC or draft has talked about Down or UP MEP for LSPs. But if you= think about it logically LSPs can't have UP-MEP because LSP can carry many PWs and each PW may enter the LSP from a different port/= interface.=A0 PWs can have UP-MEP but only for P2P services (VPWS), otherwise they can't have UP-MEP either (same as LSP). =A0 My suggestion is to correct figures and change UP-MEPs to Down-MEPs for LSP= s. Also to mention UP-MEP is out of scope. =A0 Thx SD =A0 -----Original Message----- From: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com [mailto:hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:20 AM To: Shahram Davari Cc: loa@pi.nu; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ie= tf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org Subject: Re:Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip= -mep-map =A0 Hi Shahram, =A0 Just one comment. =A0 >I would also argue that LSPs can't have UP-MEPs, since PWs from many ingre= ss ports can enter an LSP=A0 and therefore the LSP can't start on the ingress interface. =A0 I think this depends on implementations. Any RFC don't restrict to DOWN-MEPs in an LSP. =A0 Anyway, MEP mechanism is out of scope in this draft as you said. =A0 Thanks, Hideki Endo =A0 >Hi, > >Although I mentioned I am Ok with the draft to be advanced to RFC, but aft= er reviewing it in more details it appears that the draft, in spite of its name, does talk about UP-MEP at all and only talks a= bout UP-MIP, while the figures show UP-MEPs for LSPs.=A0 Even if the scope of the draft is UP-MIP, considering that there can't be a= MIP without a MEP,=A0 the draft should have some wording regarding UP-MEPs and their applicability to LSPs and PWs. I would also arg= ue that LSPs can't have UP-MEPs, since PWs from many ingress ports can enter an LSP=A0 and therefore the LSP can't start on the = ingress interface. > >A quick fix at this point is to mention UP-MEP is out of scope and change = the figures to only show Down-MEPs. A better fix is to elaborate on UP-MEP and its applicability and placement, etc. > >Regards, >Shahram > >=20 > >-----Original Message----- >From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of=20 >Shahram Davari >Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2013 11:30 AM >To: Loa Andersson; mpls@ietf.org >Cc: ; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org;=20 >draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org >Subject: Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call on=20 >draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map > >My Comments are addressed and I support this draft to be published as Info= rmational=A0 RFC. > >Thx >Shahram > >-----Original Message----- >From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of=20 >Loa Andersson >Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 3:02 AM >To: mpls@ietf.org >Cc: ; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org;=20 >draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org >Subject: [mpls] 2nd working group last call on=20 >draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map > >Working Group, > >draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05.txt has been updated after a previous=20 >last call, due to the nature a and extent of the updates we have chosen=20 >to start a 2nd wg last call. > >The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: >https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map > >There's also a htmlized version available at: >http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05 > >A diff from the previous version is available at: >http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05 > >Please send your comments, including approval of the documents and the=20 >updates to the mpls working group list (mpls@ietf.org) > >This working group last call ends March 13, 2013. > >/Loa >for the MPLS working group co-chairs >-- > > >Loa Andersson=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0 email: loa@mail01.huawei.com >Senior MPLS Expert=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 loa@pi.nu >Huawei Technologies (consult)=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 phone: +46 739 81 21 64 >_______________________________________________ >mpls mailing list >mpls@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > > >_______________________________________________ >mpls mailing list >mpls@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > > >_______________________________________________ >mpls mailing list >mpls@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > =A0 =A0 _______________________________________________ mpls mailing list mpls@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls =A0 From davari@broadcom.com Wed Mar 13 12:00:36 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 952F111E80EE for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 12:00:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.001, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SrEpohj4acDx for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 12:00:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mms1.broadcom.com (mms1.broadcom.com [216.31.210.17]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79BBD21F8DFC for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 12:00:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.16.192.224] by mms1.broadcom.com with ESMTP (Broadcom SMTP Relay (Email Firewall v6.5)); Wed, 13 Mar 2013 11:56:36 -0700 X-Server-Uuid: 06151B78-6688-425E-9DE2-57CB27892261 Received: from SJEXCHCAS05.corp.ad.broadcom.com (10.16.203.13) by SJEXCHHUB01.corp.ad.broadcom.com (10.16.192.224) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.2.247.2; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 11:59:20 -0700 Received: from SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com ( [fe80::bc15:c1e1:c29a:36f7]) by SJEXCHCAS05.corp.ad.broadcom.com ( [::1]) with mapi id 14.01.0438.000; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 11:59:19 -0700 From: "Shahram Davari" To: "Gregory Mirsky" , "hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com" Thread-Topic: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working group last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) Thread-Index: AQHOH1NdwRf/Tf9hZk+Xrs65EizX8Jij+Y8w Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 18:59:18 +0000 Message-ID: <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9BA48@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> References: <512C960E.70109@pi.nu> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD962A2@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broa> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9AAF4@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broa> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9AB6D@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF11206FBD5@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> In-Reply-To: <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF11206FBD5@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.16.203.100] MIME-Version: 1.0 X-WSS-ID: 7D5E146E0BG1194448-01-01 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=_000_4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9BA48SJEXCHMB12corpa_ Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , "mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: 2nd working group last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 19:00:36 -0000 --_000_4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9BA48SJEXCHMB12corpa_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Greg, RFC6371 is very high level and does not define whether UP MEP applies to LS= P or PW. Assume there are 2 ingress interfaces A & B. Each interface maps = Ethernet traffic to its own PW (PW-A and PW-B). Now assume both these PWs g= o inside the same LSP that exists Interface C. Now please explain if we wer= e to have an UP-MEP for LSP then on which interface would that LSP UP-MEP r= eside? Interface A? B? C? This simple example shows you can't have an LSP UP-MEP. Thx SD From: Gregory Mirsky [mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:56 AM To: Shahram Davari; hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-m= ap@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org Subject: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working group last c= all ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) Dear All, What would be the most appropriate subject to continue this discussion? I'l= l give it a try, please feel free to change it. I think that there's nothing that can preclude from supporting UP MEP on MP= LS-TP LSP, according to UP MEP definition of RFC 6371, even when multpiple = PWs mapped to that LSP. Same, I think, is the true for p2mp PW. Note that = service, VPWS, is not part of MPLS-TP architecture. Regards, Greg -----Original Message----- From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-boun= ces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Shahram Davari Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:30 AM To: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org<= mailto:draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org>; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.= org Subject: Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-me= p-map Hideki, So far no RFC or draft has talked about Down or UP MEP for LSPs. But if you= think about it logically LSPs can't have UP-MEP because LSP can carry many= PWs and each PW may enter the LSP from a different port/interface. PWs ca= n have UP-MEP but only for P2P services (VPWS), otherwise they can't have U= P-MEP either (same as LSP). My suggestion is to correct figures and change UP-MEPs to Down-MEPs for LSP= s. Also to mention UP-MEP is out of scope. Thx SD -----Original Message----- From: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com [mailto= :hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:20 AM To: Shahram Davari Cc: loa@pi.nu; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-= ads@tools.ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.= org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tool= s.ietf.org Subject: Re:Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip= -mep-map Hi Shahram, Just one comment. >I would also argue that LSPs can't have UP-MEPs, since PWs from many ingre= ss ports can enter an LSP and therefore the LSP can't start on the ingress= interface. I think this depends on implementations. Any RFC don't restrict to DOWN-MEPs in an LSP. Anyway, MEP mechanism is out of scope in this draft as you said. Thanks, Hideki Endo >Hi, > >Although I mentioned I am Ok with the draft to be advanced to RFC, but aft= er reviewing it in more details it appears that the draft, in spite of its = name, does talk about UP-MEP at all and only talks about UP-MIP, while the = figures show UP-MEPs for LSPs. Even if the scope of the draft is UP-MIP, c= onsidering that there can't be a MIP without a MEP, the draft should have = some wording regarding UP-MEPs and their applicability to LSPs and PWs. I w= ould also argue that LSPs can't have UP-MEPs, since PWs from many ingress p= orts can enter an LSP and therefore the LSP can't start on the ingress int= erface. > >A quick fix at this point is to mention UP-MEP is out of scope and change = the figures to only show Down-MEPs. A better fix is to elaborate on UP-MEP = and its applicability and placement, etc. > >Regards, >Shahram > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bou= nces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of >Shahram Davari >Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2013 11:30 AM >To: Loa Andersson; mpls@ietf.org >Cc: >; mpls-chairs= @tools.ietf.org; >draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org >Subject: Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call on >draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map > >My Comments are addressed and I support this draft to be published as Info= rmational RFC. > >Thx >Shahram > >-----Original Message----- >From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bou= nces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of >Loa Andersson >Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 3:02 AM >To: mpls@ietf.org >Cc: >; mpls-chairs= @tools.ietf.org; >draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org >Subject: [mpls] 2nd working group last call on >draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map > >Working Group, > >draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05.txt has been updated after a previous >last call, due to the nature a and extent of the updates we have chosen >to start a 2nd wg last call. > >The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: >https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map > >There's also a htmlized version available at: >http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05 > >A diff from the previous version is available at: >http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05 > >Please send your comments, including approval of the documents and the >updates to the mpls working group list (mpls@ietf.org) > >This working group last call ends March 13, 2013. > >/Loa >for the MPLS working group co-chairs >-- > > >Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com >Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu >Huawei Technologies (consult) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 >_______________________________________________ >mpls mailing list >mpls@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > > >_______________________________________________ >mpls mailing list >mpls@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > > >_______________________________________________ >mpls mailing list >mpls@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > _______________________________________________ mpls mailing list mpls@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls --_000_4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9BA48SJEXCHMB12corpa_ Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Greg,

 <= /p>

RFC6371 is very high leve= l and does not define whether UP MEP applies to LSP or PW.  Assume the= re are 2 ingress interfaces A & B. Each interface maps Ethernet traffic to its own PW (PW-A and PW-B). Now assume both these PWs go inside= the same LSP that exists Interface C. Now please explain if we were to hav= e an UP-MEP for LSP then on which interface would that LSP UP-MEP reside? I= nterface A? B? C?

 <= /p>

This simple example shows= you can’t have an LSP UP-MEP.

 <= /p>

Thx
SD

 <= /p>

From: Gregory = Mirsky [mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:56 AM
To: Shahram Davari; hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com
Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mi= p-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org
Subject: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working group= last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map)

 

Dear All,

What would be the most appropriate subjec= t to continue this discussion? I'll give it a try, please feel free to chan= ge it.

 

I think that there's nothing that can pre= clude from supporting UP MEP on MPLS-TP LSP, according to UP MEP definition= of RFC 6371, even when multpiple PWs mapped to that LSP. Same, I think, is the true for  p2mp PW. Note that service, VPWS, is = not part of MPLS-TP architecture.

 

       = ; Regards,

       = ;         Greg

 

-----Original Message-----

From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Beha= lf Of Shahram Davari

Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:30 AM

Subject: Re: [mpls] 2nd working group las= t call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map

 

Hideki,

 

So far no RFC or draft has talked about D= own or UP MEP for LSPs. But if you think about it logically LSPs can't have= UP-MEP because LSP can carry many PWs and each PW may enter the LSP from a different port/interface.  PWs can have UP-MEP but onl= y for P2P services (VPWS), otherwise they can't have UP-MEP either (same as= LSP).

 

My suggestion is to correct figures and c= hange UP-MEPs to Down-MEPs for LSPs. Also to mention UP-MEP is out of scope= .

 

Thx

SD

 

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:20 AM

To: Shahram Davari

Subject: Re:Re: [mpls] 2nd working group = last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map

 

Hi Shahram,

 

Just one comment.

 

>I would also argue that LSPs can't ha= ve UP-MEPs, since PWs from many ingress ports can enter an LSP  and th= erefore the LSP can't start on the ingress interface.

 

I think this depends on implementations.<= o:p>

Any RFC don't restrict to DOWN-MEPs in an= LSP.

 

Anyway, MEP mechanism is out of scope in = this draft as you said.

 

Thanks,

Hideki Endo

 

>Hi,

> 

>Although I mentioned I am Ok with the= draft to be advanced to RFC, but after reviewing it in more details it app= ears that the draft, in spite of its name, does talk about UP-MEP at all and only talks about UP-MIP, while the figures show UP-MEPs = for LSPs.  Even if the scope of the draft is UP-MIP, considering that = there can't be a MIP without a MEP,  the draft should have some wordin= g regarding UP-MEPs and their applicability to LSPs and PWs. I would also argue that LSPs can't have UP-MEPs, since PW= s from many ingress ports can enter an LSP  and therefore the LSP can'= t start on the ingress interface.

> 

>A quick fix at this point is to menti= on UP-MEP is out of scope and change the figures to only show Down-MEPs. A = better fix is to elaborate on UP-MEP and its applicability and placement, etc.

> 

>Regards,

>Shahram

> 

>

> 

>-----Original Message-----=

>Shahram Davari

>Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2013 11:30= AM

>To: Loa Andersson; mpls@ietf.org

>Subject: Re: [mpls] 2nd working group= last call on

>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map

> 

>My Comments are addressed and I suppo= rt this draft to be published as Informational  RFC.=

> 

>Thx

>Shahram

> 

>-----Original Message-----=

>Loa Andersson

>Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 3:02= AM

>Subject: [mpls] 2nd working group las= t call on

>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map

> 

>Working Group,

> 

>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05.txt= has been updated after a previous

>last call, due to the nature a and ex= tent of the updates we have chosen

>to start a 2nd wg last call.

> 

>The IETF datatracker status page for = this draft is:

> 

>There's also a htmlized version avail= able at:

> 

>A diff from the previous version is a= vailable at:

> 

>Please send your comments, including = approval of the documents and the

>updates to the mpls working group lis= t (mpls@ietf.org)

> 

>This working group last call ends Mar= ch 13, 2013.

> 

>/Loa

>for the MPLS working group co-chairs<= o:p>

>--

> 

> 

>Loa Andersson    =             &nb= sp;       email: loa@mail01.huawei.com

>Senior MPLS Expert   &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;          loa@pi.nu

>Huawei Technologies (consult) &n= bsp;      phone: +46 739 81 21 64

>_____________________________________= __________

>mpls mailing list

> 

> 

>_____________________________________= __________

>mpls mailing list

> 

> 

>_____________________________________= __________

>mpls mailing list

> 

 

 

_________________________________________= ______

mpls mailing list

 

--_000_4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9BA48SJEXCHMB12corpa_-- From gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com Wed Mar 13 12:41:47 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCA0021F8D11 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 12:41:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dY2aq01pZcCZ for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 12:41:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usevmg21.ericsson.net (usevmg21.ericsson.net [198.24.6.65]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F021E21F8CF7 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 12:41:42 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c6180641-b7faf6d00000096b-c5-5140d675a26b Received: from EUSAAHC008.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [147.117.188.96]) by usevmg21.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 3D.4D.02411.576D0415; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 20:41:42 +0100 (CET) Received: from EUSAAMB103.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.120]) by EUSAAHC008.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.96]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.004; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 15:41:41 -0400 From: Gregory Mirsky To: Shahram Davari , "hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com" Thread-Topic: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working group last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) Thread-Index: AQHOIB0I53AEc724p0eVbWEJjBubv5ikAFwQ Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 19:41:40 +0000 Message-ID: <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF112070391@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> References: <512C960E.70109@pi.nu> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD962A2@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broa> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9AAF4@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broa> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9AB6D@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF11206FBD5@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9BA48@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> In-Reply-To: <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9BA48@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [147.117.188.135] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF112070391eusaamb103ericsso_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFmpjkeLIzCtJLcpLzFFi42KZXLonQbfsmkOgQf9GcYv1vZ4WzbfOsltc //KeyWLJyw52i++XlrBY3Fq6ktWBzWPW/bNsHq1n1rB4LFnyk8njy+XPbAEsUVw2Kak5mWWp Rfp2CVwZnbe62QoOXWCq+Hu3nbmBccNKpi5GTg4JAROJX9f3MULYYhIX7q1n62Lk4hASOMIo cfL3JmYIZzmjROuJV6wgVWwCRhIvNvawg9giAqkSs/v62UBsZoFfjBJbL+mB2MICZRLTn61i hagpl/h+/yIjhG0kMW3fN7B6FgFViRsLfoFdwSvgLbHhfh8TxLK9zBIdfQ/BGjgFwiUePrgO NogR6Lzvp9YwQSwTl7j1ZD7UCwISS/acZ4awRSVePv7HCmErS3yf84gFoj5fYkVHOyPEMkGJ kzOfsExgFJ2FZNQsJGWzkJRBxHUkFuz+xAZha0ssW/iaGcY+c+AxE7L4Akb2VYwcpcWpZbnp RoabGIFxeUyCzXEH44JPlocYpTlYlMR5Q10vBAgJpCeWpGanphakFsUXleakFh9iZOLglGpg bDzbdY7n7cuFyq97he7UL22ZtMo/vUP23JU2x8L+cPHDT+9P+nmT4fF3f+n7R/h0SyzuOQTY bux9yjPtuduizwGO5a+l5nFN3KbwK4FBfD2P7m/G4tUKwbFy0V2hlxzCbppw9i8L492/hqWM 8UHpG48jN9//COP9vfys25+4wORtZl94nkvEKbEUZyQaajEXFScCAGzUIMyZAgAA Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , "mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: 2nd working group last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 19:41:47 -0000 --_000_7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF112070391eusaamb103ericsso_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Shahram, UP MEP, whether as defined by RFC 6371 or as defined elsewhere, e.g. IEEE 8= 02.1ag, is not required to be co-located with an ingress to monitored servi= ce, e.g. attachement circuit, but with logical interface that represents mo= nitored service. Location of UP MEP is undefined as long as it complies wit= h where is sends to and receives from OAM packets/frames. In case of MPLS t= his element if MPLS forwarding function, in case of Ethernet - Bridge Relay= Entity. For MPLS, as long as OAM packets sent to forwarding and get proper= encapsulation, IMHO, we have ourselves an UP MEP. How packet being bounced= within a node to get such treatment, I think, is implementation specific. Regards, Greg ________________________________ From: Shahram Davari [mailto:davari@broadcom.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 11:59 AM To: Gregory Mirsky; hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-m= ap@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org Subject: RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working group la= st call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) Greg, RFC6371 is very high level and does not define whether UP MEP applies to LS= P or PW. Assume there are 2 ingress interfaces A & B. Each interface maps = Ethernet traffic to its own PW (PW-A and PW-B). Now assume both these PWs g= o inside the same LSP that exists Interface C. Now please explain if we wer= e to have an UP-MEP for LSP then on which interface would that LSP UP-MEP r= eside? Interface A? B? C? This simple example shows you can't have an LSP UP-MEP. Thx SD From: Gregory Mirsky [mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:56 AM To: Shahram Davari; hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-m= ap@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org Subject: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working group last c= all ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) Dear All, What would be the most appropriate subject to continue this discussion? I'l= l give it a try, please feel free to change it. I think that there's nothing that can preclude from supporting UP MEP on MP= LS-TP LSP, according to UP MEP definition of RFC 6371, even when multpiple = PWs mapped to that LSP. Same, I think, is the true for p2mp PW. Note that = service, VPWS, is not part of MPLS-TP architecture. Regards, Greg -----Original Message----- From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-boun= ces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Shahram Davari Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:30 AM To: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org<= mailto:draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org>; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.= org Subject: Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-me= p-map Hideki, So far no RFC or draft has talked about Down or UP MEP for LSPs. But if you= think about it logically LSPs can't have UP-MEP because LSP can carry many= PWs and each PW may enter the LSP from a different port/interface. PWs ca= n have UP-MEP but only for P2P services (VPWS), otherwise they can't have U= P-MEP either (same as LSP). My suggestion is to correct figures and change UP-MEPs to Down-MEPs for LSP= s. Also to mention UP-MEP is out of scope. Thx SD -----Original Message----- From: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com [mailto= :hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:20 AM To: Shahram Davari Cc: loa@pi.nu; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-= ads@tools.ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.= org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tool= s.ietf.org Subject: Re:Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip= -mep-map Hi Shahram, Just one comment. >I would also argue that LSPs can't have UP-MEPs, since PWs from many ingre= ss ports can enter an LSP and therefore the LSP can't start on the ingress= interface. I think this depends on implementations. Any RFC don't restrict to DOWN-MEPs in an LSP. Anyway, MEP mechanism is out of scope in this draft as you said. Thanks, Hideki Endo >Hi, > >Although I mentioned I am Ok with the draft to be advanced to RFC, but aft= er reviewing it in more details it appears that the draft, in spite of its = name, does talk about UP-MEP at all and only talks about UP-MIP, while the = figures show UP-MEPs for LSPs. Even if the scope of the draft is UP-MIP, c= onsidering that there can't be a MIP without a MEP, the draft should have = some wording regarding UP-MEPs and their applicability to LSPs and PWs. I w= ould also argue that LSPs can't have UP-MEPs, since PWs from many ingress p= orts can enter an LSP and therefore the LSP can't start on the ingress int= erface. > >A quick fix at this point is to mention UP-MEP is out of scope and change = the figures to only show Down-MEPs. A better fix is to elaborate on UP-MEP = and its applicability and placement, etc. > >Regards, >Shahram > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bou= nces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of >Shahram Davari >Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2013 11:30 AM >To: Loa Andersson; mpls@ietf.org >Cc: >; mpls-chairs= @tools.ietf.org; >draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org >Subject: Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call on >draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map > >My Comments are addressed and I support this draft to be published as Info= rmational RFC. > >Thx >Shahram > >-----Original Message----- >From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bou= nces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of >Loa Andersson >Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 3:02 AM >To: mpls@ietf.org >Cc: >; mpls-chairs= @tools.ietf.org; >draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org >Subject: [mpls] 2nd working group last call on >draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map > >Working Group, > >draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05.txt has been updated after a previous >last call, due to the nature a and extent of the updates we have chosen >to start a 2nd wg last call. > >The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: >https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map > >There's also a htmlized version available at: >http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05 > >A diff from the previous version is available at: >http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05 > >Please send your comments, including approval of the documents and the >updates to the mpls working group list (mpls@ietf.org) > >This working group last call ends March 13, 2013. > >/Loa >for the MPLS working group co-chairs >-- > > >Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com >Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu >Huawei Technologies (consult) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 >_______________________________________________ >mpls mailing list >mpls@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > > >_______________________________________________ >mpls mailing list >mpls@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > > >_______________________________________________ >mpls mailing list >mpls@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > _______________________________________________ mpls mailing list mpls@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls --_000_7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF112070391eusaamb103ericsso_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Shahram,
UP MEP, whether as defined by RFC= 6371 or as defined elsewhere, e.g. IEEE 802.1ag, is not required to be co-= located with an ingress to monitored service, e.g. attachement circuit, but with logical interface that represents monit= ored service. Location of UP MEP is undefined as long as it complies with w= here is sends to and receives from OAM packets/frames. In case of MPLS this= element if MPLS forwarding function, in case of Ethernet - Bridge Relay Entity. For MPLS, as long as OAM packet= s sent to forwarding and get proper encapsulation, IMHO, we have ourselves = an UP MEP. How packet being bounced within a node to get such treatment, I = think, is implementation specific.
 
 &n= bsp;  Regards,
 &n= bsp;      Greg

From: Shahram Davari [mailto:davari= @broadcom.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 11:59 AM
To: Gregory Mirsky; hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com
Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mi= p-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org
Subject: RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working g= roup last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map)

Greg,

 

RFC6371 is very high level and does not de= fine whether UP MEP applies to LSP or PW.  Assume there are 2 ingress = interfaces A & B. Each interface maps Ethernet traffic to its own PW (PW-A and PW-B). Now assume both these PWs go inside= the same LSP that exists Interface C. Now please explain if we were to hav= e an UP-MEP for LSP then on which interface would that LSP UP-MEP reside? I= nterface A? B? C?

 

This simple example shows you can’t = have an LSP UP-MEP.

 

Thx
SD

 

From: Gregory Mirsky [mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson= .com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:56 AM
To: Shahram Davari; hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com
Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mi= p-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org
Subject: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working group= last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map)

 

Dear All,

What would be the most appropriate subject to continue this = discussion? I'll give it a try, please feel free to change it.

 

I think that there's nothing that can preclude from supporti= ng UP MEP on MPLS-TP LSP, according to UP MEP definition of RFC 6371, even = when multpiple PWs mapped to that LSP. Same, I think, is the true for  p2mp PW. Note that service, VPWS, is = not part of MPLS-TP architecture.

 

        Regards,

          =       Greg

 

-----Original Message-----

From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Beha= lf Of Shahram Davari

Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:30 AM

Subject: Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call ondraft-ietf= -mpls-tp-mip-mep-map

 

Hideki,

 

So far no RFC or draft has talked about Down or UP MEP for L= SPs. But if you think about it logically LSPs can't have UP-MEP because LSP= can carry many PWs and each PW may enter the LSP from a different port/interface.  PWs can have UP-MEP b= ut only for P2P services (VPWS), otherwise they can't have UP-MEP either (s= ame as LSP).

 

My suggestion is to correct figures and change UP-MEPs to Do= wn-MEPs for LSPs. Also to mention UP-MEP is out of scope.=

 

Thx

SD

 

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:20 AM

To: Shahram Davari

Subject: Re:Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call ondraft-i= etf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map

 

Hi Shahram,

 

Just one comment.

 

>I would also argue that LSPs can't have UP-MEPs, since P= Ws from many ingress ports can enter an LSP  and therefore the LSP can= 't start on the ingress interface.

 

I think this depends on implementations.

Any RFC don't restrict to DOWN-MEPs in an LSP.

 

Anyway, MEP mechanism is out of scope in this draft as you s= aid.

 

Thanks,

Hideki Endo

 

>Hi,

> 

>Although I mentioned I am Ok with the draft to be advanc= ed to RFC, but after reviewing it in more details it appears that the draft= , in spite of its name, does talk about UP-MEP at all and only talks about UP-MIP, while the figures show UP-MEPs = for LSPs.  Even if the scope of the draft is UP-MIP, considering that = there can't be a MIP without a MEP,  the draft should have some wordin= g regarding UP-MEPs and their applicability to LSPs and PWs. I would also argue that LSPs can't have UP-MEPs, since PW= s from many ingress ports can enter an LSP  and therefore the LSP can'= t start on the ingress interface.

> 

>A quick fix at this point is to mention UP-MEP is out of= scope and change the figures to only show Down-MEPs. A better fix is to el= aborate on UP-MEP and its applicability and placement, etc.

> 

>Regards,

>Shahram

> 

>

> 

>-----Original Message-----

>Shahram Davari

>Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2013 11:30 AM

>To: Loa Andersson; mpls@ietf.org

>Subject: Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call on

>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map

> 

>My Comments are addressed and I support this draft to be= published as Informational  RFC.

> 

>Thx

>Shahram

> 

>-----Original Message-----

>Loa Andersson

>Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 3:02 AM

>Subject: [mpls] 2nd working group last call on

>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map

> 

>Working Group,

> 

>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05.txt has been updated a= fter a previous

>last call, due to the nature a and extent of the updates= we have chosen

>to start a 2nd wg last call.

> 

>The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:=

> 

>There's also a htmlized version available at:=

> 

>A diff from the previous version is available at:

> 

>Please send your comments, including approval of the doc= uments and the

>updates to the mpls working group list (mpls@ietf.org)

> 

>This working group last call ends March 13, 2013.

> 

>/Loa

>for the MPLS working group co-chairs

>--

> 

> 

>Loa Andersson       &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;    email: loa@mail01.huawei.com

>Senior MPLS Expert      &n= bsp;            = ;       loa@pi.nu

>Huawei Technologies (consult)    &nb= sp;   phone: +46 739 81 21 64

>_______________________________________________

>mpls mailing list

>mpls@ietf.org<= /o:p>

> 

> 

>_______________________________________________

>mpls mailing list

>mpls@ietf.org<= /o:p>

> 

> 

>_______________________________________________

>mpls mailing list

>mpls@ietf.org<= /o:p>

> 

 

 

_______________________________________________

mpls mailing list

 

--_000_7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF112070391eusaamb103ericsso_-- From kireeti.kompella@gmail.com Wed Mar 13 12:48:55 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3615C21F8DDB for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 12:48:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.567 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.567 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vNIIuSPSDrDG for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 12:48:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yh0-x22c.google.com (mail-yh0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c01::22c]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9278621F8DC9 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 12:48:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-yh0-f44.google.com with SMTP id q11so246949yhf.31 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 12:48:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:subject:from:content-type:x-mailer:message-id:date:to :content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=A+7KLjBKyDFRxDqCILZgc/yH+NE9XS7QrdsPRp5T83I=; b=b/KSiBgZ8JW8jGYe0Bk81LwQYU7nOEFSsN4o4zLdEmUecHGL2DZu+io7l09NU3yK4Q 0qyg87X6e482uuKe220NHrz6V79Je7QxVcH0jCREVsBLW5z4C3VGZHLjysAyyURyiHQh cyFbPBKhU4su7iHfOaGH+FB/djPENVFoQ1oWqBoqLqlUsp5eT7p8/KDcMjNQLOvcgY9C vBdLA0ipyjTQPgxfrxysNxFaBuJpjY+gt8NrSQrUHKUrxwB1lT1nMS+pZG6RMYU+zWvf FvcC4NK0L5F29aibfENsn3Ep3C46Gqt+T/CPY8S1bEKE0j6i63gkyUGDJ7eek2CTo9ux lOdA== X-Received: by 10.236.169.104 with SMTP id m68mr13211360yhl.27.1363204134122; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 12:48:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.157.82.100] (mobile-166-147-116-211.mycingular.net. [166.147.116.211]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id w2sm37275364yhh.7.2013.03.13.12.48.52 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 13 Mar 2013 12:48:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Kireeti Kompella Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (10A551) Message-Id: <0B390473-1A62-48B5-B5CD-D727C5D96F28@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 15:48:55 -0400 To: mpls@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Subject: [mpls] Reserving extended special purpose labels X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 19:48:55 -0000 Hi All, In today's discussion, I noted the need to reserve (i.e., not allocate) some= of the special purpose labels in the extended space. The primary reason to r= eserve special purpose label S is that an implementation interprets S indepe= ndent of the preceding label; an example is the ELI.=20 Please comment to the list or to an MPLS WG chair near you if you believe a l= abel in the range 0-14 should be reserved in the extended special purpose la= bel space.=20 Thanks, Kireeti= From davari@broadcom.com Wed Mar 13 12:56:34 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CA3911E8105 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 12:56:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ETYZdFIYN+Ry for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 12:56:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mms1.broadcom.com (mms1.broadcom.com [216.31.210.17]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E5C721F87AA for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 12:56:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.16.192.224] by mms1.broadcom.com with ESMTP (Broadcom SMTP Relay (Email Firewall v6.5)); Wed, 13 Mar 2013 12:52:40 -0700 X-Server-Uuid: 06151B78-6688-425E-9DE2-57CB27892261 Received: from SJEXCHCAS06.corp.ad.broadcom.com (10.16.203.15) by SJEXCHHUB01.corp.ad.broadcom.com (10.16.192.224) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.2.247.2; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 12:55:22 -0700 Received: from SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com ( [fe80::bc15:c1e1:c29a:36f7]) by SJEXCHCAS06.corp.ad.broadcom.com ( [::1]) with mapi id 14.01.0438.000; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 12:55:22 -0700 From: "Shahram Davari" To: "Gregory Mirsky" , "hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com" Thread-Topic: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working group last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) Thread-Index: AQHOH1NdwRf/Tf9hZk+Xrs65EizX8Jij+Y8wgACCswD//4v/kA== Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 19:55:21 +0000 Message-ID: <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9BB39@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> References: <512C960E.70109@pi.nu> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD962A2@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broa> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9AAF4@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broa> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9AB6D@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF11206FBD5@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9BA48@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF112070391@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> In-Reply-To: <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF112070391@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.16.203.100] MIME-Version: 1.0 X-WSS-ID: 7D5E068C0BG1228297-01-01 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=_000_4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9BB39SJEXCHMB12corpa_ Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , "mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: 2nd working group last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 19:56:38 -0000 --_000_4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9BB39SJEXCHMB12corpa_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Greg, We have a fundamental difference of opinion. I have been involved in the O= AM for over a decade now and one of the fundamental architectural requireme= nts is that OAM packets MUST follow the data packets in the network and ins= ide a switch/router up to the observation point (MEP). So it is not accepta= ble for data packets to be on Interface A and for MEP to be on Interface B. In the example I gave, can you please tell me how you can do Loss Measureme= nt for the LSP with UP-MEP? How do you increment the LSP UP-MEP receive LM = counters for packets received from PW-A and PW-B? and where is the LSP-UP-M= EP located? Thx Shahram From: Gregory Mirsky [mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 12:42 PM To: Shahram Davari; hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-m= ap@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org Subject: RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working group la= st call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) Hi Shahram, UP MEP, whether as defined by RFC 6371 or as defined elsewhere, e.g. IEEE 8= 02.1ag, is not required to be co-located with an ingress to monitored servi= ce, e.g. attachement circuit, but with logical interface that represents mo= nitored service. Location of UP MEP is undefined as long as it complies wit= h where is sends to and receives from OAM packets/frames. In case of MPLS t= his element if MPLS forwarding function, in case of Ethernet - Bridge Relay= Entity. For MPLS, as long as OAM packets sent to forwarding and get proper= encapsulation, IMHO, we have ourselves an UP MEP. How packet being bounced= within a node to get such treatment, I think, is implementation specific. Regards, Greg ________________________________ From: Shahram Davari [mailto:davari@broadcom.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 11:59 AM To: Gregory Mirsky; hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org<= mailto:draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org>; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.= org Subject: RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working group la= st call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) Greg, RFC6371 is very high level and does not define whether UP MEP applies to LS= P or PW. Assume there are 2 ingress interfaces A & B. Each interface maps = Ethernet traffic to its own PW (PW-A and PW-B). Now assume both these PWs g= o inside the same LSP that exists Interface C. Now please explain if we wer= e to have an UP-MEP for LSP then on which interface would that LSP UP-MEP r= eside? Interface A? B? C? This simple example shows you can't have an LSP UP-MEP. Thx SD From: Gregory Mirsky [mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:56 AM To: Shahram Davari; hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org<= mailto:draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org>; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.= org Subject: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working group last c= all ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) Dear All, What would be the most appropriate subject to continue this discussion? I'l= l give it a try, please feel free to change it. I think that there's nothing that can preclude from supporting UP MEP on MP= LS-TP LSP, according to UP MEP definition of RFC 6371, even when multpiple = PWs mapped to that LSP. Same, I think, is the true for p2mp PW. Note that = service, VPWS, is not part of MPLS-TP architecture. Regards, Greg -----Original Message----- From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-boun= ces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Shahram Davari Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:30 AM To: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org<= mailto:draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org>; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.= org Subject: Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-me= p-map Hideki, So far no RFC or draft has talked about Down or UP MEP for LSPs. But if you= think about it logically LSPs can't have UP-MEP because LSP can carry many= PWs and each PW may enter the LSP from a different port/interface. PWs ca= n have UP-MEP but only for P2P services (VPWS), otherwise they can't have U= P-MEP either (same as LSP). My suggestion is to correct figures and change UP-MEPs to Down-MEPs for LSP= s. Also to mention UP-MEP is out of scope. Thx SD -----Original Message----- From: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com [mailto= :hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:20 AM To: Shahram Davari Cc: loa@pi.nu; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-= ads@tools.ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.= org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tool= s.ietf.org Subject: Re:Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip= -mep-map Hi Shahram, Just one comment. >I would also argue that LSPs can't have UP-MEPs, since PWs from many ingre= ss ports can enter an LSP and therefore the LSP can't start on the ingress= interface. I think this depends on implementations. Any RFC don't restrict to DOWN-MEPs in an LSP. Anyway, MEP mechanism is out of scope in this draft as you said. Thanks, Hideki Endo >Hi, > >Although I mentioned I am Ok with the draft to be advanced to RFC, but aft= er reviewing it in more details it appears that the draft, in spite of its = name, does talk about UP-MEP at all and only talks about UP-MIP, while the = figures show UP-MEPs for LSPs. Even if the scope of the draft is UP-MIP, c= onsidering that there can't be a MIP without a MEP, the draft should have = some wording regarding UP-MEPs and their applicability to LSPs and PWs. I w= ould also argue that LSPs can't have UP-MEPs, since PWs from many ingress p= orts can enter an LSP and therefore the LSP can't start on the ingress int= erface. > >A quick fix at this point is to mention UP-MEP is out of scope and change = the figures to only show Down-MEPs. A better fix is to elaborate on UP-MEP = and its applicability and placement, etc. > >Regards, >Shahram > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bou= nces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of >Shahram Davari >Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2013 11:30 AM >To: Loa Andersson; mpls@ietf.org >Cc: >; mpls-chairs= @tools.ietf.org; >draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org >Subject: Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call on >draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map > >My Comments are addressed and I support this draft to be published as Info= rmational RFC. > >Thx >Shahram > >-----Original Message----- >From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bou= nces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of >Loa Andersson >Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 3:02 AM >To: mpls@ietf.org >Cc: >; mpls-chairs= @tools.ietf.org; >draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org >Subject: [mpls] 2nd working group last call on >draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map > >Working Group, > >draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05.txt has been updated after a previous >last call, due to the nature a and extent of the updates we have chosen >to start a 2nd wg last call. > >The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: >https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map > >There's also a htmlized version available at: >http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05 > >A diff from the previous version is available at: >http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05 > >Please send your comments, including approval of the documents and the >updates to the mpls working group list (mpls@ietf.org) > >This working group last call ends March 13, 2013. > >/Loa >for the MPLS working group co-chairs >-- > > >Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com >Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu >Huawei Technologies (consult) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 >_______________________________________________ >mpls mailing list >mpls@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > > >_______________________________________________ >mpls mailing list >mpls@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > > >_______________________________________________ >mpls mailing list >mpls@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > _______________________________________________ mpls mailing list mpls@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls --_000_4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9BB39SJEXCHMB12corpa_ Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Greg,

 <= /p>

We have a fundamental dif= ference of opinion.  I have been involved in the OAM for over a decade= now and one of the fundamental architectural requirements is that OAM packets MUST follow the data packets in the network and inside a = switch/router up to the observation point (MEP). So it is not acceptable fo= r data packets to be on Interface A and for MEP to be on Interface B.

 <= /p>

In the example I gave, ca= n you please tell me how you can do Loss Measurement for the LSP with UP-ME= P? How do you increment the LSP UP-MEP receive LM counters for packets received from PW-A and PW-B? and where is the LSP-UP-MEP locat= ed?

 <= /p>

Thx
Shahram

 <= /p>

From: Gregory = Mirsky [mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 12:42 PM
To: Shahram Davari; hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com
Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mi= p-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org
Subject: RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working g= roup last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map)

 

Hi Shahram,<= /p>

UP MEP, whether as defined by = RFC 6371 or as defined elsewhere, e.g. IEEE 802.1ag, is not required to be = co-located with an ingress to monitored service, e.g. attachement circuit, but with logical interface that represents monitored service. Loc= ation of UP MEP is undefined as long as it complies with where is sends to = and receives from OAM packets/frames. In case of MPLS this element if MPLS = forwarding function, in case of Ethernet - Bridge Relay Entity. For MPLS, as long as OAM packets sent to f= orwarding and get proper encapsulation, IMHO, we have ourselves an UP MEP. = How packet being bounced within a node to get such treatment, I think, is i= mplementation specific.

 

    Regards,

        Greg

 

From:<= /span> Shahram Davari [mailto:davari@broadcom.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 11:59 AM
To: Gregory Mirsky; hi= deki.endo.es@hitachi.com
Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org
Subject: RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working g= roup last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map)

Greg,

 <= /p>

RFC6371 is very high leve= l and does not define whether UP MEP applies to LSP or PW.  Assume the= re are 2 ingress interfaces A & B. Each interface maps Ethernet traffic to its own PW (PW-A and PW-B). Now assume both these PWs go inside= the same LSP that exists Interface C. Now please explain if we were to hav= e an UP-MEP for LSP then on which interface would that LSP UP-MEP reside? I= nterface A? B? C?

 <= /p>

This simple example shows= you can’t have an LSP UP-MEP.

 <= /p>

Thx
SD

 <= /p>

From: Gregory = Mirsky [mailto:gregory.mirsk= y@ericsson.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:56 AM
To: Shahram Davari; hi= deki.endo.es@hitachi.com
Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org
Subject: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working group= last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map)

 

Dear All,

What would be the most appropriate subjec= t to continue this discussion? I'll give it a try, please feel free to chan= ge it.

 

I think that there's nothing that can pre= clude from supporting UP MEP on MPLS-TP LSP, according to UP MEP definition= of RFC 6371, even when multpiple PWs mapped to that LSP. Same, I think, is the true for  p2mp PW. Note that service, VPWS, is = not part of MPLS-TP architecture.

 

       = ; Regards,

       = ;         Greg

 

-----Original Message-----

From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Beha= lf Of Shahram Davari

Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:30 AM

Subject: Re: [mpls] 2nd working group las= t call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map

 

Hideki,

 

So far no RFC or draft has talked about D= own or UP MEP for LSPs. But if you think about it logically LSPs can't have= UP-MEP because LSP can carry many PWs and each PW may enter the LSP from a different port/interface.  PWs can have UP-MEP but onl= y for P2P services (VPWS), otherwise they can't have UP-MEP either (same as= LSP).

 

My suggestion is to correct figures and c= hange UP-MEPs to Down-MEPs for LSPs. Also to mention UP-MEP is out of scope= .

 

Thx

SD

 

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:20 AM

To: Shahram Davari

Subject: Re:Re: [mpls] 2nd working group = last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map

 

Hi Shahram,

 

Just one comment.

 

>I would also argue that LSPs can't ha= ve UP-MEPs, since PWs from many ingress ports can enter an LSP  and th= erefore the LSP can't start on the ingress interface.

 

I think this depends on implementations.<= o:p>

Any RFC don't restrict to DOWN-MEPs in an= LSP.

 

Anyway, MEP mechanism is out of scope in = this draft as you said.

 

Thanks,

Hideki Endo

 

>Hi,

> 

>Although I mentioned I am Ok with the= draft to be advanced to RFC, but after reviewing it in more details it app= ears that the draft, in spite of its name, does talk about UP-MEP at all and only talks about UP-MIP, while the figures show UP-MEPs = for LSPs.  Even if the scope of the draft is UP-MIP, considering that = there can't be a MIP without a MEP,  the draft should have some wordin= g regarding UP-MEPs and their applicability to LSPs and PWs. I would also argue that LSPs can't have UP-MEPs, since PW= s from many ingress ports can enter an LSP  and therefore the LSP can'= t start on the ingress interface.

> 

>A quick fix at this point is to menti= on UP-MEP is out of scope and change the figures to only show Down-MEPs. A = better fix is to elaborate on UP-MEP and its applicability and placement, etc.

> 

>Regards,

>Shahram

> 

>

> 

>-----Original Message-----=

>Shahram Davari

>Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2013 11:30= AM

>To: Loa Andersson; mpls@ietf.org

>Subject: Re: [mpls] 2nd working group= last call on

>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map

> 

>My Comments are addressed and I suppo= rt this draft to be published as Informational  RFC.=

> 

>Thx

>Shahram

> 

>-----Original Message-----=

>Loa Andersson

>Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 3:02= AM

>Subject: [mpls] 2nd working group las= t call on

>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map

> 

>Working Group,

> 

>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05.txt= has been updated after a previous

>last call, due to the nature a and ex= tent of the updates we have chosen

>to start a 2nd wg last call.

> 

>The IETF datatracker status page for = this draft is:

> 

>There's also a htmlized version avail= able at:

> 

>A diff from the previous version is a= vailable at:

> 

>Please send your comments, including = approval of the documents and the

>updates to the mpls working group lis= t (mpls@ietf.org)

> 

>This working group last call ends Mar= ch 13, 2013.

> 

>/Loa

>for the MPLS working group co-chairs<= o:p>

>--

> 

> 

>Loa Andersson    =             &nb= sp;       email: loa@mail01.huawei.com

>Senior MPLS Expert   &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;          loa@pi.nu

>Huawei Technologies (consult) &n= bsp;      phone: +46 739 81 21 64

>_____________________________________= __________

>mpls mailing list

> 

> 

>_____________________________________= __________

>mpls mailing list

> 

> 

>_____________________________________= __________

>mpls mailing list

> 

 

 

_________________________________________= ______

mpls mailing list

 

--_000_4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9BB39SJEXCHMB12corpa_-- From gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com Wed Mar 13 13:06:22 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9175311E811D for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 13:06:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zxsf5DAh5cOD for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 13:06:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usevmg21.ericsson.net (usevmg21.ericsson.net [198.24.6.65]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E791511E811A for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 13:06:16 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c6180641-b7faf6d00000096b-5e-5140dc38b63d Received: from EUSAAHC005.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [147.117.188.87]) by usevmg21.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 00.EE.02411.83CD0415; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 21:06:16 +0100 (CET) Received: from EUSAAMB103.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.120]) by EUSAAHC005.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.87]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.004; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 16:06:15 -0400 From: Gregory Mirsky To: Shahram Davari , "hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com" Thread-Topic: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working group last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) Thread-Index: AQHOICTmJ6a1dS5iqEGTy+e6E6wiZZikCf8g Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 20:06:15 +0000 Message-ID: <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1120703DD@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> References: <512C960E.70109@pi.nu> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD962A2@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broa> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9AAF4@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broa> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9AB6D@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF11206FBD5@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9BA48@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF112070391@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9BB39@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> In-Reply-To: <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9BB39@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [147.117.188.135] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1120703DDeusaamb103ericsso_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFmplkeLIzCtJLcpLzFFi42KZXLonXNfijkOgwdmXShbrez0tmm+dZbe4 /uU9k8WSlx3sFt8vLWGxuLV0JasDm8es+2fZPFrPrGHxWLLkJ5PHl8uf2QJYorhsUlJzMstS i/TtErgyXtzsZi3Y281cMfnqZuYGxu93mLoYOTkkBEwk/n55ywhhi0lcuLeeDcQWEjjCKLHx bl0XIxeQvZxRYv7k6ywgCTYBI4kXG3vYQWwRgVSJ2X39YA3MAr8YJbZe0gOxhQXKJKY/W8UK UVMu8f3+RUYI20hi66/5YHEWAVWJX1cbwObwCnhLzH0ylRVi2RkWiW03X4M1cAqES3z/8Rvs Ukag676fWsMEsUxc4taT+VAfCEgs2XOeGcIWlXj5+B8rhK0s8X3OIxaI+nyJ7WvaGSGWCUqc nPmEZQKj6Cwko2YhKZuFpAwiriOxYPcnNghbW2LZwtfMMPaZA4+ZkMUXMLKvYuQoLU4ty003 MtzECIzKYxJsjjsYF3yyPMQozcGiJM4b6nohQEggPbEkNTs1tSC1KL6oNCe1+BAjEwenVANj krCCvn3p4V/P7+du+7lvwed2p5btK6aXx907EBX+9OYpPm/mHZ3HhJqFhWZzf723ochEpaLM d9O88oTfX5uvxs1pebB8YkCyV01JI9OWn8dTYraddXYT3xrscrb1mL6UQ9P1f6dvrplufowh dt7Z24FHeALi3S13cmk4B+dzdov9NPkx/y+/EktxRqKhFnNRcSIAWSVAJJgCAAA= Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , "mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: 2nd working group last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 20:06:22 -0000 --_000_7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1120703DDeusaamb103ericsso_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Shahram, I believe that MPLS-TP LM is what is called Synthetic Loss Measurement and = does not require reporting in-profile counters. If my understanding is corr= ect, then I don't see how location of UP MEP in relation to PW A and PW B i= s important. Besides, could you refer me to definition of in-profile and ou= t-ot-profile in regard to MPLS-TP. Much obliged. As for your challenge I do have solution but, I believe, it is HW specific.= Sorry if you can not do that. Regards, Greg ________________________________ From: Shahram Davari [mailto:davari@broadcom.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 12:55 PM To: Gregory Mirsky; hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-m= ap@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org Subject: RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working group la= st call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) Greg, We have a fundamental difference of opinion. I have been involved in the O= AM for over a decade now and one of the fundamental architectural requireme= nts is that OAM packets MUST follow the data packets in the network and ins= ide a switch/router up to the observation point (MEP). So it is not accepta= ble for data packets to be on Interface A and for MEP to be on Interface B. In the example I gave, can you please tell me how you can do Loss Measureme= nt for the LSP with UP-MEP? How do you increment the LSP UP-MEP receive LM = counters for packets received from PW-A and PW-B? and where is the LSP-UP-M= EP located? Thx Shahram From: Gregory Mirsky [mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 12:42 PM To: Shahram Davari; hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-m= ap@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org Subject: RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working group la= st call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) Hi Shahram, UP MEP, whether as defined by RFC 6371 or as defined elsewhere, e.g. IEEE 8= 02.1ag, is not required to be co-located with an ingress to monitored servi= ce, e.g. attachement circuit, but with logical interface that represents mo= nitored service. Location of UP MEP is undefined as long as it complies wit= h where is sends to and receives from OAM packets/frames. In case of MPLS t= his element if MPLS forwarding function, in case of Ethernet - Bridge Relay= Entity. For MPLS, as long as OAM packets sent to forwarding and get proper= encapsulation, IMHO, we have ourselves an UP MEP. How packet being bounced= within a node to get such treatment, I think, is implementation specific. Regards, Greg ________________________________ From: Shahram Davari [mailto:davari@broadcom.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 11:59 AM To: Gregory Mirsky; hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org<= mailto:draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org>; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.= org Subject: RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working group la= st call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) Greg, RFC6371 is very high level and does not define whether UP MEP applies to LS= P or PW. Assume there are 2 ingress interfaces A & B. Each interface maps = Ethernet traffic to its own PW (PW-A and PW-B). Now assume both these PWs g= o inside the same LSP that exists Interface C. Now please explain if we wer= e to have an UP-MEP for LSP then on which interface would that LSP UP-MEP r= eside? Interface A? B? C? This simple example shows you can't have an LSP UP-MEP. Thx SD From: Gregory Mirsky [mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:56 AM To: Shahram Davari; hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org<= mailto:draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org>; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.= org Subject: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working group last c= all ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) Dear All, What would be the most appropriate subject to continue this discussion? I'l= l give it a try, please feel free to change it. I think that there's nothing that can preclude from supporting UP MEP on MP= LS-TP LSP, according to UP MEP definition of RFC 6371, even when multpiple = PWs mapped to that LSP. Same, I think, is the true for p2mp PW. Note that = service, VPWS, is not part of MPLS-TP architecture. Regards, Greg -----Original Message----- From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-boun= ces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Shahram Davari Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:30 AM To: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org<= mailto:draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org>; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.= org Subject: Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-me= p-map Hideki, So far no RFC or draft has talked about Down or UP MEP for LSPs. But if you= think about it logically LSPs can't have UP-MEP because LSP can carry many= PWs and each PW may enter the LSP from a different port/interface. PWs ca= n have UP-MEP but only for P2P services (VPWS), otherwise they can't have U= P-MEP either (same as LSP). My suggestion is to correct figures and change UP-MEPs to Down-MEPs for LSP= s. Also to mention UP-MEP is out of scope. Thx SD -----Original Message----- From: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com [mailto= :hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:20 AM To: Shahram Davari Cc: loa@pi.nu; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-= ads@tools.ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.= org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tool= s.ietf.org Subject: Re:Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip= -mep-map Hi Shahram, Just one comment. >I would also argue that LSPs can't have UP-MEPs, since PWs from many ingre= ss ports can enter an LSP and therefore the LSP can't start on the ingress= interface. I think this depends on implementations. Any RFC don't restrict to DOWN-MEPs in an LSP. Anyway, MEP mechanism is out of scope in this draft as you said. Thanks, Hideki Endo >Hi, > >Although I mentioned I am Ok with the draft to be advanced to RFC, but aft= er reviewing it in more details it appears that the draft, in spite of its = name, does talk about UP-MEP at all and only talks about UP-MIP, while the = figures show UP-MEPs for LSPs. Even if the scope of the draft is UP-MIP, c= onsidering that there can't be a MIP without a MEP, the draft should have = some wording regarding UP-MEPs and their applicability to LSPs and PWs. I w= ould also argue that LSPs can't have UP-MEPs, since PWs from many ingress p= orts can enter an LSP and therefore the LSP can't start on the ingress int= erface. > >A quick fix at this point is to mention UP-MEP is out of scope and change = the figures to only show Down-MEPs. A better fix is to elaborate on UP-MEP = and its applicability and placement, etc. > >Regards, >Shahram > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bou= nces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of >Shahram Davari >Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2013 11:30 AM >To: Loa Andersson; mpls@ietf.org >Cc: >; mpls-chairs= @tools.ietf.org; >draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org >Subject: Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call on >draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map > >My Comments are addressed and I support this draft to be published as Info= rmational RFC. > >Thx >Shahram > >-----Original Message----- >From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bou= nces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of >Loa Andersson >Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 3:02 AM >To: mpls@ietf.org >Cc: >; mpls-chairs= @tools.ietf.org; >draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org >Subject: [mpls] 2nd working group last call on >draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map > >Working Group, > >draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05.txt has been updated after a previous >last call, due to the nature a and extent of the updates we have chosen >to start a 2nd wg last call. > >The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: >https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map > >There's also a htmlized version available at: >http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05 > >A diff from the previous version is available at: >http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05 > >Please send your comments, including approval of the documents and the >updates to the mpls working group list (mpls@ietf.org) > >This working group last call ends March 13, 2013. > >/Loa >for the MPLS working group co-chairs >-- > > >Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com >Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu >Huawei Technologies (consult) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 >_______________________________________________ >mpls mailing list >mpls@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > > >_______________________________________________ >mpls mailing list >mpls@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > > >_______________________________________________ >mpls mailing list >mpls@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > _______________________________________________ mpls mailing list mpls@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls --_000_7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1120703DDeusaamb103ericsso_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Shahram,
I believe that MPLS-TP LM is what= is called Synthetic Loss Measurement and does not require reporting in-pro= file counters. If my understanding is correct, then I don't see how location of UP MEP in relation to PW A and PW B is im= portant. Besides, could you refer me to definition of in-profile and out-ot= -profile in regard to MPLS-TP. Much obliged.
As for your challenge I do have s= olution but, I believe, it is HW specific. Sorry if you can not do that.
 
 &n= bsp;  Regards,
 &n= bsp;      Greg

From: Shahram Davari [mailto:davari= @broadcom.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 12:55 PM
To: Gregory Mirsky; hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com
Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mi= p-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org
Subject: RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working g= roup last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map)

Greg,

 

We have a fundamental difference of opinio= n.  I have been involved in the OAM for over a decade now and one of t= he fundamental architectural requirements is that OAM packets MUST follow the data packets in the network and inside= a switch/router up to the observation point (MEP). So it is not acceptable= for data packets to be on Interface A and for MEP to be on Interface B.

 

In the example I gave, can you please tell= me how you can do Loss Measurement for the LSP with UP-MEP? How do you inc= rement the LSP UP-MEP receive LM counters for packets received from PW-A and PW-B? and where is the LSP-UP-MEP locat= ed?

 

Thx
Shahram

 

From: Gregory Mirsky [mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson= .com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 12:42 PM
To: Shahram Davari; hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com
Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mi= p-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org
Subject: RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working g= roup last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map)

 

Hi Shahram,

UP MEP, whether as defined by RFC 6371 or as de= fined elsewhere, e.g. IEEE 802.1ag, is not required to be co-located with a= n ingress to monitored service, e.g. attachement circuit, but with logical interface that represents monitored = service. Location of UP MEP is undefined as long as it complies with where = is sends to and receives from OAM packets/frames. In case of MPLS this elem= ent if MPLS forwarding function, in case of Ethernet - Bridge Relay Entity. For MPLS, as long as OAM packet= s sent to forwarding and get proper encapsulation, IMHO, we have ourselves = an UP MEP. How packet being bounced within a node to get such treatment, I = think, is implementation specific.

 

    Regards,

        Greg

 

From: Shahram Davari [= mailto:davari@broadcom.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 11:59 AM
To: Gregory Mirsky; hi= deki.endo.es@hitachi.com
Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org
Subject: RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working g= roup last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map)

Greg,

 

RFC6371 is very high level and does not de= fine whether UP MEP applies to LSP or PW.  Assume there are 2 ingress = interfaces A & B. Each interface maps Ethernet traffic to its own PW (PW-A and PW-B). Now assume both these PWs go inside= the same LSP that exists Interface C. Now please explain if we were to hav= e an UP-MEP for LSP then on which interface would that LSP UP-MEP reside? I= nterface A? B? C?

 

This simple example shows you can’t = have an LSP UP-MEP.

 

Thx
SD

 

From: Gregory Mirsky [mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:56 AM
To: Shahram Davari; hi= deki.endo.es@hitachi.com
Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org
Subject: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working group= last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map)

 

Dear All,

What would be the most appropriate subject to continue this = discussion? I'll give it a try, please feel free to change it.

 

I think that there's nothing that can preclude from supporti= ng UP MEP on MPLS-TP LSP, according to UP MEP definition of RFC 6371, even = when multpiple PWs mapped to that LSP. Same, I think, is the true for  p2mp PW. Note that service, VPWS, is = not part of MPLS-TP architecture.

 

        Regards,

          =       Greg

 

-----Original Message-----

From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Beha= lf Of Shahram Davari

Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:30 AM

Subject: Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call ondraft-ietf= -mpls-tp-mip-mep-map

 

Hideki,

 

So far no RFC or draft has talked about Down or UP MEP for L= SPs. But if you think about it logically LSPs can't have UP-MEP because LSP= can carry many PWs and each PW may enter the LSP from a different port/interface.  PWs can have UP-MEP b= ut only for P2P services (VPWS), otherwise they can't have UP-MEP either (s= ame as LSP).

 

My suggestion is to correct figures and change UP-MEPs to Do= wn-MEPs for LSPs. Also to mention UP-MEP is out of scope.=

 

Thx

SD

 

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:20 AM

To: Shahram Davari

Subject: Re:Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call ondraft-i= etf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map

 

Hi Shahram,

 

Just one comment.

 

>I would also argue that LSPs can't have UP-MEPs, since P= Ws from many ingress ports can enter an LSP  and therefore the LSP can= 't start on the ingress interface.

 

I think this depends on implementations.

Any RFC don't restrict to DOWN-MEPs in an LSP.

 

Anyway, MEP mechanism is out of scope in this draft as you s= aid.

 

Thanks,

Hideki Endo

 

>Hi,

> 

>Although I mentioned I am Ok with the draft to be advanc= ed to RFC, but after reviewing it in more details it appears that the draft= , in spite of its name, does talk about UP-MEP at all and only talks about UP-MIP, while the figures show UP-MEPs = for LSPs.  Even if the scope of the draft is UP-MIP, considering that = there can't be a MIP without a MEP,  the draft should have some wordin= g regarding UP-MEPs and their applicability to LSPs and PWs. I would also argue that LSPs can't have UP-MEPs, since PW= s from many ingress ports can enter an LSP  and therefore the LSP can'= t start on the ingress interface.

> 

>A quick fix at this point is to mention UP-MEP is out of= scope and change the figures to only show Down-MEPs. A better fix is to el= aborate on UP-MEP and its applicability and placement, etc.

> 

>Regards,

>Shahram

> 

>

> 

>-----Original Message-----

>Shahram Davari

>Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2013 11:30 AM

>To: Loa Andersson; mpls@ietf.org

>Subject: Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call on

>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map

> 

>My Comments are addressed and I support this draft to be= published as Informational  RFC.

> 

>Thx

>Shahram

> 

>-----Original Message-----

>Loa Andersson

>Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 3:02 AM

>Subject: [mpls] 2nd working group last call on

>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map

> 

>Working Group,

> 

>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05.txt has been updated a= fter a previous

>last call, due to the nature a and extent of the updates= we have chosen

>to start a 2nd wg last call.

> 

>The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:=

> 

>There's also a htmlized version available at:=

> 

>A diff from the previous version is available at:

> 

>Please send your comments, including approval of the doc= uments and the

>updates to the mpls working group list (mpls@ietf.org)

> 

>This working group last call ends March 13, 2013.

> 

>/Loa

>for the MPLS working group co-chairs

>--

> 

> 

>Loa Andersson       &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;    email: loa@mail01.huawei.com

>Senior MPLS Expert      &n= bsp;            = ;       loa@pi.nu

>Huawei Technologies (consult)    &nb= sp;   phone: +46 739 81 21 64

>_______________________________________________

>mpls mailing list

>mpls@ietf.org<= /o:p>

> 

> 

>_______________________________________________

>mpls mailing list

>mpls@ietf.org<= /o:p>

> 

> 

>_______________________________________________

>mpls mailing list

>mpls@ietf.org<= /o:p>

> 

 

 

_______________________________________________

mpls mailing list

 

--_000_7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1120703DDeusaamb103ericsso_-- From c-sai@bx.jp.nec.com Wed Mar 13 13:08:00 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3E0411E8136 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 13:08:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.09 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.09 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_JP=1.244, HOST_EQ_JP=1.265, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id P1olW4+yEuxs for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 13:07:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tyo201.gate.nec.co.jp (TYO201.gate.nec.co.jp [210.143.35.51]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4D6211E8135 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 13:07:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailgate3.nec.co.jp ([10.7.69.193]) by tyo201.gate.nec.co.jp (8.13.8/8.13.4) with ESMTP id r2DK7mL8027054; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 05:07:48 +0900 (JST) Received: (from root@localhost) by mailgate3.nec.co.jp (8.11.7/3.7W-MAILGATE-NEC) id r2DK7l110964; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 05:07:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from mail03.kamome.nec.co.jp (mail03.kamome.nec.co.jp [10.25.43.7]) by mailsv3.nec.co.jp (8.13.8/8.13.4) with ESMTP id r2DK7lPG023850; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 05:07:47 +0900 (JST) Received: from saigo.jp.nec.com ([10.26.220.6] [10.26.220.6]) by mail02.kamome.nec.co.jp with ESMTP id BT-MMP-2396734; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 05:06:35 +0900 Received: from vpcja157 ([10.38.16.157] [10.38.16.157]) by mail.jp.nec.com with ESMTP; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 05:06:32 +0900 From: "Zhenlong Cui" To: "'Shahram Davari'" , "'Gregory Mirsky'" , References: <512C960E.70109@pi.nu><4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD962A2@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broa><4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9AAF4@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broa><4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9AB6D@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF11206FBD5@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <019F8CB7F5324E979B052BD3E35DF1A6@nsl.ad.nec.co.jp> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9BA08@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 05:06:32 +0900 Message-ID: <7D705B2066364E429D5953D09D609A00@nsl.ad.nec.co.jp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9BA08@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> Thread-Index: AQHOIBsi00XsWI0hikmKiznQeJ7/zJij96uggAASzMA= X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5931 Cc: mpls@ietf.org, mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org, draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org, mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org Subject: Re: [mpls] On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: 2nd working group last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 20:08:00 -0000 Hi Shahram, Give you an example.... OAM must operate on MPLS-TP nodes that are branch points on point-to- multipoint (P2MP) trees include ring topology. That means that the = branch points must be possible to drop & continue the received OAM frame. =20 If the Down-MEP is configured at ingress i/f(LSP Terminal Point) as = shown=20 below figure, then the received OAM frame will be blocked by ingress = i/f=20 and can't transmit to downstream link. =20 I think it is a problem. -------------------------- | -----| | | N/A | | ->-| |->-------------LSP = (Downstream link) | | | Out | | | | i/f | | | -----| |----- | -----| | MEP | ---- | | N/A | | | | |- | | LSP----->-| In |->-| FW |--->-| Out |->----UNI | i/f | | |- | i/f | |----- ---- | -----| | | -----| | | | N/A | | | | | | ->-| Out |->----UNI | | i/f | | -----| -------------------------- Best regards, Zhenlong > -----Original Message----- > From: Shahram Davari [mailto:davari@broadcom.com] > Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2013 3:53 AM > To: Zhenlong Cui; 'Gregory Mirsky'; hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com > Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; = mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org > Subject: RE: [mpls] On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: 2nd working = group last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) >=20 > Hi, >=20 > I don't really understand what you are trying to say. Can you provide = an example. >=20 > Thx > SD >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Zhenlong Cui [mailto:c-sai@bx.jp.nec.com] > Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 11:45 AM > To: 'Gregory Mirsky'; Shahram Davari; hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com > Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; = mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org > Subject: RE: [mpls] On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: 2nd working = group last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) >=20 > Hi Shahram, >=20 > Some, at least in case of ring topology, the LSP UP-MEP is a = necessity. >=20 > As you know, a intermediate node on a ring network have to supports = Swap & POP processing. > There are some OAM models should be taken into consideration for = intermediate node, as follows: >=20 > (1) Set Down-MEP only > If we support the down-mep only and set down-mep at Down I/F(swap = point), OAM will not be transmitted to downstream node. >=20 > (2) Set Down-MIP and UP-MIP > For support the LSP Protection at the intermediate node, the MEP must = be set at the POP Point. >=20 > Note: > MPLS-TP recovery in a ring must protect unidirectional P2MP = transport paths as specified in RFC 5654. >=20 > (3) Set Down-MIP and UP-MEP > This model can solve above model's issues. >=20 >=20 > Best regards, > zhenlong >=20 >=20 > ________________________________________ > From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf = Of Gregory Mirsky > Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 3:56 AM > To: Shahram Davari; hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com > Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; = mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org > Subject: [mpls] On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: 2nd working group = last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) >=20 > Dear All, > What would be the most appropriate subject to continue this = discussion? I'll give it a try, please feel free to change it. >=20 > I think that there's nothing that can preclude from supporting UP MEP = on MPLS-TP LSP, according to UP MEP definition of RFC > 6371, > even when multpiple PWs mapped to that LSP. Same, I think, is the true = for=A0 p2mp PW. Note that service, VPWS, is not part > of MPLS-TP > architecture. >=20 > =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Regards, > =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Greg >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf = Of Shahram Davari > Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:30 AM > To: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com > Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; = draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org > Subject: Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call = ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map >=20 > Hideki, >=20 > So far no RFC or draft has talked about Down or UP MEP for LSPs. But = if you think about it logically LSPs can't have UP-MEP > because > LSP can carry many PWs and each PW may enter the LSP from a different = port/interface.=A0 PWs can have UP-MEP but only for > P2P services > (VPWS), otherwise they can't have UP-MEP either (same as LSP). >=20 > My suggestion is to correct figures and change UP-MEPs to Down-MEPs = for LSPs. Also to mention UP-MEP is out of scope. >=20 > Thx > SD >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com [mailto:hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com] > Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:20 AM > To: Shahram Davari > Cc: loa@pi.nu; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org; = mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; > draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org > Subject: Re:Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call = ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map >=20 > Hi Shahram, >=20 > Just one comment. >=20 > >I would also argue that LSPs can't have UP-MEPs, since PWs from many = ingress ports can enter an LSP=A0 and therefore the > LSP can't > start on the ingress interface. >=20 > I think this depends on implementations. > Any RFC don't restrict to DOWN-MEPs in an LSP. >=20 > Anyway, MEP mechanism is out of scope in this draft as you said. >=20 > Thanks, > Hideki Endo >=20 > >Hi, > > > >Although I mentioned I am Ok with the draft to be advanced to RFC, = but after reviewing it in more details it appears that > the > draft, in spite of its name, does talk about UP-MEP at all and only = talks about UP-MIP, while the figures show UP-MEPs for > LSPs. > Even if the scope of the draft is UP-MIP, considering that there can't = be a MIP without a MEP,=A0 the draft should have some > wording > regarding UP-MEPs and their applicability to LSPs and PWs. I would = also argue that LSPs can't have UP-MEPs, since PWs from > many > ingress ports can enter an LSP=A0 and therefore the LSP can't start on = the ingress interface. > > > >A quick fix at this point is to mention UP-MEP is out of scope and = change the figures to only show Down-MEPs. A better fix > is to > elaborate on UP-MEP and its applicability and placement, etc. > > > >Regards, > >Shahram > > > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf = Of > >Shahram Davari > >Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2013 11:30 AM > >To: Loa Andersson; mpls@ietf.org > >Cc: ; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; > >draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org > >Subject: Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call on > >draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map > > > >My Comments are addressed and I support this draft to be published as = Informational=A0 RFC. > > > >Thx > >Shahram > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf = Of > >Loa Andersson > >Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 3:02 AM > >To: mpls@ietf.org > >Cc: ; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; > >draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org > >Subject: [mpls] 2nd working group last call on > >draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map > > > >Working Group, > > > >draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05.txt has been updated after a = previous > >last call, due to the nature a and extent of the updates we have = chosen > >to start a 2nd wg last call. > > > >The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > >https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map > > > >There's also a htmlized version available at: > >http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05 > > > >A diff from the previous version is available at: > >http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05 > > > >Please send your comments, including approval of the documents and = the > >updates to the mpls working group list (mpls@ietf.org) > > > >This working group last call ends March 13, 2013. > > > >/Loa > >for the MPLS working group co-chairs > >-- > > > > > >Loa = Andersson=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0 email: loa@mail01.huawei.com > >Senior MPLS = Expert=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0 loa@pi.nu > >Huawei Technologies (consult)=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 phone: +46 739 81 = 21 64 > >_______________________________________________ > >mpls mailing list > >mpls@ietf.org > >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >mpls mailing list > >mpls@ietf.org > >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >mpls mailing list > >mpls@ietf.org > >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > > >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > mpls mailing list > mpls@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls >=20 >=20 From davari@broadcom.com Wed Mar 13 14:21:56 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0392411E8134 for ; 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Wed, 13 Mar 2013 14:20:55 -0700 From: "Shahram Davari" To: "Gregory Mirsky" Thread-Topic: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working group last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) Thread-Index: AQHOH1NdwRf/Tf9hZk+Xrs65EizX8Jij+Y8wgACCswD//4v/kIAAet+A//+fhIA= Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 21:20:55 +0000 Message-ID: <0D4312C0-ED50-4839-B1B0-9D4BF696F88E@broadcom.com> References: <512C960E.70109@pi.nu> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD962A2@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broa> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9AAF4@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broa> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9AB6D@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF11206FBD5@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9BA48@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF112070391@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9BB39@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com>, <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1120703DD@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> In-Reply-To: <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1120703DD@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-WSS-ID: 7D5E32A20BG1280403-01-01 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=_000_0D4312C0ED504839B1B09D4BF696F88Ebroadcomcom_ Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , "mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: 2nd working group last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 21:21:56 -0000 --_000_0D4312C0ED504839B1B09D4BF696F88Ebroadcomcom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Greg, First of all MPLS-TP LM can use direct Loss measurement of RFC6374. Secondly I am not asking on what is your implementation. I am asking logica= lly how do you do LM for LSP UPMEP. You have to let the data packets go thr= ough forwarding and queuing and be actually delivered to the egress interfa= ce before you can increment receive LM counter. Just examining the forwardi= ng result is not enough since for example the link between egress line card= and the fabric can be broken or have errors. Regards, Shahram On Mar 13, 2013, at 1:06 PM, "Gregory Mirsky" > wrote: Hi Shahram, I believe that MPLS-TP LM is what is called Synthetic Loss Measurement and = does not require reporting in-profile counters. If my understanding is corr= ect, then I don't see how location of UP MEP in relation to PW A and PW B i= s important. Besides, could you refer me to definition of in-profile and ou= t-ot-profile in regard to MPLS-TP. Much obliged. As for your challenge I do have solution but, I believe, it is HW specific.= Sorry if you can not do that. Regards, Greg ________________________________ From: Shahram Davari [mailto:davari@broadcom.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 12:55 PM To: Gregory Mirsky; hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org<= mailto:draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org>; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.= org Subject: RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working group la= st call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) Greg, We have a fundamental difference of opinion. I have been involved in the O= AM for over a decade now and one of the fundamental architectural requireme= nts is that OAM packets MUST follow the data packets in the network and ins= ide a switch/router up to the observation point (MEP). So it is not accepta= ble for data packets to be on Interface A and for MEP to be on Interface B. In the example I gave, can you please tell me how you can do Loss Measureme= nt for the LSP with UP-MEP? How do you increment the LSP UP-MEP receive LM = counters for packets received from PW-A and PW-B? and where is the LSP-UP-M= EP located? Thx Shahram From: Gregory Mirsky [mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 12:42 PM To: Shahram Davari; hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org<= mailto:draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org>; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.= org Subject: RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working group la= st call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) Hi Shahram, UP MEP, whether as defined by RFC 6371 or as defined elsewhere, e.g. IEEE 8= 02.1ag, is not required to be co-located with an ingress to monitored servi= ce, e.g. attachement circuit, but with logical interface that represents mo= nitored service. Location of UP MEP is undefined as long as it complies wit= h where is sends to and receives from OAM packets/frames. In case of MPLS t= his element if MPLS forwarding function, in case of Ethernet - Bridge Relay= Entity. For MPLS, as long as OAM packets sent to forwarding and get proper= encapsulation, IMHO, we have ourselves an UP MEP. How packet being bounced= within a node to get such treatment, I think, is implementation specific. Regards, Greg ________________________________ From: Shahram Davari [mailto:davari@broadcom.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 11:59 AM To: Gregory Mirsky; hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org<= mailto:draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org>; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.= org Subject: RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working group la= st call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) Greg, RFC6371 is very high level and does not define whether UP MEP applies to LS= P or PW. Assume there are 2 ingress interfaces A & B. Each interface maps = Ethernet traffic to its own PW (PW-A and PW-B). Now assume both these PWs g= o inside the same LSP that exists Interface C. Now please explain if we wer= e to have an UP-MEP for LSP then on which interface would that LSP UP-MEP r= eside? Interface A? B? C? This simple example shows you can=92t have an LSP UP-MEP. Thx SD From: Gregory Mirsky [mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:56 AM To: Shahram Davari; hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org<= mailto:draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org>; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.= org Subject: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working group last c= all ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) Dear All, What would be the most appropriate subject to continue this discussion? I'l= l give it a try, please feel free to change it. I think that there's nothing that can preclude from supporting UP MEP on MP= LS-TP LSP, according to UP MEP definition of RFC 6371, even when multpiple = PWs mapped to that LSP. Same, I think, is the true for p2mp PW. Note that = service, VPWS, is not part of MPLS-TP architecture. Regards, Greg -----Original Message----- From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-boun= ces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Shahram Davari Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:30 AM To: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org<= mailto:draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org>; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.= org Subject: Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-me= p-map Hideki, So far no RFC or draft has talked about Down or UP MEP for LSPs. But if you= think about it logically LSPs can't have UP-MEP because LSP can carry many= PWs and each PW may enter the LSP from a different port/interface. PWs ca= n have UP-MEP but only for P2P services (VPWS), otherwise they can't have U= P-MEP either (same as LSP). My suggestion is to correct figures and change UP-MEPs to Down-MEPs for LSP= s. Also to mention UP-MEP is out of scope. Thx SD -----Original Message----- From: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com [mailto= :hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:20 AM To: Shahram Davari Cc: loa@pi.nu; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-= ads@tools.ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.= org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tool= s.ietf.org Subject: Re:Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip= -mep-map Hi Shahram, Just one comment. >I would also argue that LSPs can't have UP-MEPs, since PWs from many ingre= ss ports can enter an LSP and therefore the LSP can't start on the ingress= interface. I think this depends on implementations. Any RFC don't restrict to DOWN-MEPs in an LSP. Anyway, MEP mechanism is out of scope in this draft as you said. Thanks, Hideki Endo >Hi, > >Although I mentioned I am Ok with the draft to be advanced to RFC, but aft= er reviewing it in more details it appears that the draft, in spite of its = name, does talk about UP-MEP at all and only talks about UP-MIP, while the = figures show UP-MEPs for LSPs. Even if the scope of the draft is UP-MIP, c= onsidering that there can't be a MIP without a MEP, the draft should have = some wording regarding UP-MEPs and their applicability to LSPs and PWs. I w= ould also argue that LSPs can't have UP-MEPs, since PWs from many ingress p= orts can enter an LSP and therefore the LSP can't start on the ingress int= erface. > >A quick fix at this point is to mention UP-MEP is out of scope and change = the figures to only show Down-MEPs. A better fix is to elaborate on UP-MEP = and its applicability and placement, etc. > >Regards, >Shahram > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bou= nces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of >Shahram Davari >Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2013 11:30 AM >To: Loa Andersson; mpls@ietf.org >Cc: >; mpls-chairs= @tools.ietf.org; >draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org >Subject: Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call on >draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map > >My Comments are addressed and I support this draft to be published as Info= rmational RFC. > >Thx >Shahram > >-----Original Message----- >From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bou= nces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of >Loa Andersson >Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 3:02 AM >To: mpls@ietf.org >Cc: >; mpls-chairs= @tools.ietf.org; >draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org >Subject: [mpls] 2nd working group last call on >draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map > >Working Group, > >draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05.txt has been updated after a previous >last call, due to the nature a and extent of the updates we have chosen >to start a 2nd wg last call. > >The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: >https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map > >There's also a htmlized version available at: >http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05 > >A diff from the previous version is available at: >http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05 > >Please send your comments, including approval of the documents and the >updates to the mpls working group list (mpls@ietf.org) > >This working group last call ends March 13, 2013. > >/Loa >for the MPLS working group co-chairs >-- > > >Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com >Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu >Huawei Technologies (consult) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 >_______________________________________________ >mpls mailing list >mpls@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > > >_______________________________________________ >mpls mailing list >mpls@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > > >_______________________________________________ >mpls mailing list >mpls@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > _______________________________________________ mpls mailing list mpls@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls --_000_0D4312C0ED504839B1B09D4BF696F88Ebroadcomcom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Greg,

First of all MPLS-TP LM can use direct Loss measurement of RFC6374.

Secondly I am not asking on what is your implementation. I am asking l= ogically how do you do LM for LSP UPMEP. You have to let the data packets g= o through forwarding and queuing and be actually delivered to the egress in= terface before you can increment receive LM counter. Just examining the forwarding result is not enough sin= ce for example the link between egress line card and the fabric can be brok= en or have errors. 



Regards,
Shahram


On Mar 13, 2013, at 1:06 PM, "Gregory Mirsky" <gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com> wrote:<= br>
Hi Shahram,
I believe that MPLS-TP LM is what= is called Synthetic Loss Measurement and does not require reporting in-pro= file counters. If my understanding is correct, then I don't see how location of UP MEP in relation to PW A and PW B is im= portant. Besides, could you refer me to definition of in-profile and out-ot= -profile in regard to MPLS-TP. Much obliged.
As for your challenge I do have s= olution but, I believe, it is HW specific. Sorry if you can not do that.
 
 &n= bsp;  Regards,
 &n= bsp;      Greg

From: Shahram Davari [mailto:davari@broadcom.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 12:55 PM
To: Gregory Mirsky; hi= deki.endo.es@hitachi.com
Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org
Subject: RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working g= roup last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map)

Greg,

 

We have a fundamental difference of opinio= n.  I have been involved in the OAM for over a decade now and one of t= he fundamental architectural requirements is that OAM packets MUST follow the data packets in the network and inside= a switch/router up to the observation point (MEP). So it is not acceptable= for data packets to be on Interface A and for MEP to be on Interface B.

 

In the example I gave, can you please tell= me how you can do Loss Measurement for the LSP with UP-MEP? How do you inc= rement the LSP UP-MEP receive LM counters for packets received from PW-A and PW-B? and where is the LSP-UP-MEP locat= ed?

 

Thx
Shahram

 

From: Gregory Mirsky [mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 12:42 PM
To: Shahram Davari; hi= deki.endo.es@hitachi.com
Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org
Subject: RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working g= roup last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map)

 

Hi Shahram,

UP MEP, whether as defined by RFC 6371 or as de= fined elsewhere, e.g. IEEE 802.1ag, is not required to be co-located with a= n ingress to monitored service, e.g. attachement circuit, but with logical interface that represents monitored = service. Location of UP MEP is undefined as long as it complies with where = is sends to and receives from OAM packets/frames. In case of MPLS this elem= ent if MPLS forwarding function, in case of Ethernet - Bridge Relay Entity. For MPLS, as long as OAM packet= s sent to forwarding and get proper encapsulation, IMHO, we have ourselves = an UP MEP. How packet being bounced within a node to get such treatment, I = think, is implementation specific.

 

    Regards,

        Greg

 

From: Shahram Davari [= mailto:davari@broadcom.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 11:59 AM
To: Gregory Mirsky; hi= deki.endo.es@hitachi.com
Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org
Subject: RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working g= roup last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map)

Greg,

 

RFC6371 is very high level and does not de= fine whether UP MEP applies to LSP or PW.  Assume there are 2 ingress = interfaces A & B. Each interface maps Ethernet traffic to its own PW (PW-A and PW-B). Now assume both these PWs go inside= the same LSP that exists Interface C. Now please explain if we were to hav= e an UP-MEP for LSP then on which interface would that LSP UP-MEP reside? I= nterface A? B? C?

 

This simple example shows you can=92t have= an LSP UP-MEP.

 

Thx
SD

 

From: Gregory Mirsky [mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:56 AM
To: Shahram Davari; hi= deki.endo.es@hitachi.com
Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org
Subject: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working group= last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map)

 

Dear All,

What would be the most appropriate subject to continue this = discussion? I'll give it a try, please feel free to change it.

 

I think that there's nothing that can preclude from supporti= ng UP MEP on MPLS-TP LSP, according to UP MEP definition of RFC 6371, even = when multpiple PWs mapped to that LSP. Same, I think, is the true for  p2mp PW. Note that service, VPWS, is = not part of MPLS-TP architecture.

 

        Regards,

          =       Greg

 

-----Original Message-----

From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Beha= lf Of Shahram Davari

Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:30 AM

Subject: Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call ondraft-ietf= -mpls-tp-mip-mep-map

 

Hideki,

 

So far no RFC or draft has talked about Down or UP MEP for L= SPs. But if you think about it logically LSPs can't have UP-MEP because LSP= can carry many PWs and each PW may enter the LSP from a different port/interface.  PWs can have UP-MEP b= ut only for P2P services (VPWS), otherwise they can't have UP-MEP either (s= ame as LSP).

 

My suggestion is to correct figures and change UP-MEPs to Do= wn-MEPs for LSPs. Also to mention UP-MEP is out of scope.=

 

Thx

SD

 

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:20 AM

To: Shahram Davari

Subject: Re:Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call ondraft-i= etf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map

 

Hi Shahram,

 

Just one comment.

 

>I would also argue that LSPs can't have UP-MEPs, since P= Ws from many ingress ports can enter an LSP  and therefore the LSP can= 't start on the ingress interface.

 

I think this depends on implementations.

Any RFC don't restrict to DOWN-MEPs in an LSP.

 

Anyway, MEP mechanism is out of scope in this draft as you s= aid.

 

Thanks,

Hideki Endo

 

>Hi,

> 

>Although I mentioned I am Ok with the draft to be advanc= ed to RFC, but after reviewing it in more details it appears that the draft= , in spite of its name, does talk about UP-MEP at all and only talks about UP-MIP, while the figures show UP-MEPs = for LSPs.  Even if the scope of the draft is UP-MIP, considering that = there can't be a MIP without a MEP,  the draft should have some wordin= g regarding UP-MEPs and their applicability to LSPs and PWs. I would also argue that LSPs can't have UP-MEPs, since PW= s from many ingress ports can enter an LSP  and therefore the LSP can'= t start on the ingress interface.

> 

>A quick fix at this point is to mention UP-MEP is out of= scope and change the figures to only show Down-MEPs. A better fix is to el= aborate on UP-MEP and its applicability and placement, etc.

> 

>Regards,

>Shahram

> 

>

> 

>-----Original Message-----

>Shahram Davari

>Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2013 11:30 AM

>To: Loa Andersson; mpls@ietf.org

>Subject: Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call on

>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map

> 

>My Comments are addressed and I support this draft to be= published as Informational  RFC.

> 

>Thx

>Shahram

> 

>-----Original Message-----

>Loa Andersson

>Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 3:02 AM

>Subject: [mpls] 2nd working group last call on

>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map

> 

>Working Group,

> 

>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05.txt has been updated a= fter a previous

>last call, due to the nature a and extent of the updates= we have chosen

>to start a 2nd wg last call.

> 

>The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:=

> 

>There's also a htmlized version available at:=

> 

>A diff from the previous version is available at:

> 

>Please send your comments, including approval of the doc= uments and the

>updates to the mpls working group list (mpls@ietf.org)

> 

>This working group last call ends March 13, 2013.

> 

>/Loa

>for the MPLS working group co-chairs

>--

> 

> 

>Loa Andersson       &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;    email: loa@mail01.huawei.com

>Senior MPLS Expert      &n= bsp;            = ;       loa@pi.nu

>Huawei Technologies (consult)    &nb= sp;   phone: +46 739 81 21 64

>_______________________________________________

>mpls mailing list

>mpls@ietf.org<= /o:p>

> 

> 

>_______________________________________________

>mpls mailing list

>mpls@ietf.org<= /o:p>

> 

> 

>_______________________________________________

>mpls mailing list

>mpls@ietf.org<= /o:p>

> 

 

 

_______________________________________________

mpls mailing list

 

--_000_0D4312C0ED504839B1B09D4BF696F88Ebroadcomcom_-- From gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com Wed Mar 13 15:12:39 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5A9721F8A14 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 15:12:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8tqsC-jw5y5V for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 15:12:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usevmg20.ericsson.net (usevmg20.ericsson.net [198.24.6.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C530821F8632 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 15:12:34 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c618062d-b7f0d6d00000097e-c0-5140f9d1daac Received: from EUSAAHC003.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [147.117.188.81]) by usevmg20.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 8F.A2.02430.1D9F0415; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 23:12:34 +0100 (CET) Received: from EUSAAMB103.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.120]) by EUSAAHC003.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.81]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.004; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 18:12:33 -0400 From: Gregory Mirsky To: Shahram Davari Thread-Topic: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working group last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) Thread-Index: AQHOIDDT+1TbH9lSnk6RhFp/oMk/zZikLm+Q Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 22:12:32 +0000 Message-ID: <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1120704C4@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> References: <512C960E.70109@pi.nu> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD962A2@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broa> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9AAF4@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broa> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9AB6D@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF11206FBD5@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9BA48@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF112070391@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9BB39@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com>, <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1120703DD@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <0D4312C0-ED50-4839-B1B0-9D4BF696F88E@broadcom.com> In-Reply-To: <0D4312C0-ED50-4839-B1B0-9D4BF696F88E@broadcom.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [147.117.188.135] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1120704C4eusaamb103ericsso_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFmpjkeLIzCtJLcpLzFFi42KZXLonUPfST4dAg909Ahbrez0tmm+dZbe4 /uU9k8WSlx3sFt8vLWGxuLV0JasDm8es+2fZPFrPrGHxWLLkJ5PHl8uf2QJYorhsUlJzMstS i/TtErgyHrw4xVhwbw1zxYYNv1gbGNt/MXUxcnJICJhI/Lk2gxXCFpO4cG89G4gtJHCEUWLu PfUuRi4gezmjRMv2X4wgCTYBI4kXG3vYQWwRAQ2Jg7euMIMUMQtsZ5K4fXkm2FRhgTKJ6c9W sUIUlUt8v3+REcI2kpi+eRpYnEVAVWLapS9gcV4Bb4ntF96zQ2w7xCrR0rgWrIhTwEHidHMr 2FBGoPO+n1oDZjMLiEvcejIf6gUBiSV7zjND2KISLx//g3pHWeL7nEcsEPX5EnM3fWWBWCYo cXLmE5YJjKKzkIyahaRsFpIyiLiOxILdn9ggbG2JZQtfM8PYZw48ZkIWX8DIvoqRo7Q4tSw3 3chgEyMwLo9JsOnuYNzz0vIQozQHi5I4b5DrhQAhgfTEktTs1NSC1KL4otKc1OJDjEwcnFIN jPEMz4puL5OpCp9+TtYwN0q44b75YQ5PA5UTjo+Xrny356imR82hF6yyBUq/tdUv7Lxh6Fmr pvnJPegPR+aKlor7DzbuX10oxvkyiIX5fPydtX5+73fe05j3qIT76X39LXyar3mKWXckLd3+ aNEr9YtvE5gahY+u+OOTWsST/en32rILch6MNUosxRmJhlrMRcWJAHdzS/2ZAgAA Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , "mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: 2nd working group last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 22:12:40 -0000 --_000_7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1120704C4eusaamb103ericsso_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Shahram, as indicated before, Synthetic LM is viable option and will work just fine = from UP MEP. Would you agree? Regards, Greg ________________________________ From: Shahram Davari [mailto:davari@broadcom.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 2:21 PM To: Gregory Mirsky Cc: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; = draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org Subject: Re: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working group la= st call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) Greg, First of all MPLS-TP LM can use direct Loss measurement of RFC6374. Secondly I am not asking on what is your implementation. I am asking logica= lly how do you do LM for LSP UPMEP. You have to let the data packets go thr= ough forwarding and queuing and be actually delivered to the egress interfa= ce before you can increment receive LM counter. Just examining the forwardi= ng result is not enough since for example the link between egress line card= and the fabric can be broken or have errors. Regards, Shahram On Mar 13, 2013, at 1:06 PM, "Gregory Mirsky" > wrote: Hi Shahram, I believe that MPLS-TP LM is what is called Synthetic Loss Measurement and = does not require reporting in-profile counters. If my understanding is corr= ect, then I don't see how location of UP MEP in relation to PW A and PW B i= s important. Besides, could you refer me to definition of in-profile and ou= t-ot-profile in regard to MPLS-TP. Much obliged. As for your challenge I do have solution but, I believe, it is HW specific.= Sorry if you can not do that. Regards, Greg ________________________________ From: Shahram Davari [mailto:davari@broadcom.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 12:55 PM To: Gregory Mirsky; hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org<= mailto:draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org>; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.= org Subject: RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working group la= st call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) Greg, We have a fundamental difference of opinion. I have been involved in the O= AM for over a decade now and one of the fundamental architectural requireme= nts is that OAM packets MUST follow the data packets in the network and ins= ide a switch/router up to the observation point (MEP). So it is not accepta= ble for data packets to be on Interface A and for MEP to be on Interface B. In the example I gave, can you please tell me how you can do Loss Measureme= nt for the LSP with UP-MEP? How do you increment the LSP UP-MEP receive LM = counters for packets received from PW-A and PW-B? and where is the LSP-UP-M= EP located? Thx Shahram From: Gregory Mirsky [mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 12:42 PM To: Shahram Davari; hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org<= mailto:draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org>; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.= org Subject: RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working group la= st call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) Hi Shahram, UP MEP, whether as defined by RFC 6371 or as defined elsewhere, e.g. IEEE 8= 02.1ag, is not required to be co-located with an ingress to monitored servi= ce, e.g. attachement circuit, but with logical interface that represents mo= nitored service. Location of UP MEP is undefined as long as it complies wit= h where is sends to and receives from OAM packets/frames. In case of MPLS t= his element if MPLS forwarding function, in case of Ethernet - Bridge Relay= Entity. For MPLS, as long as OAM packets sent to forwarding and get proper= encapsulation, IMHO, we have ourselves an UP MEP. How packet being bounced= within a node to get such treatment, I think, is implementation specific. Regards, Greg ________________________________ From: Shahram Davari [mailto:davari@broadcom.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 11:59 AM To: Gregory Mirsky; hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org<= mailto:draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org>; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.= org Subject: RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working group la= st call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) Greg, RFC6371 is very high level and does not define whether UP MEP applies to LS= P or PW. Assume there are 2 ingress interfaces A & B. Each interface maps = Ethernet traffic to its own PW (PW-A and PW-B). Now assume both these PWs g= o inside the same LSP that exists Interface C. Now please explain if we wer= e to have an UP-MEP for LSP then on which interface would that LSP UP-MEP r= eside? Interface A? B? C? This simple example shows you can't have an LSP UP-MEP. Thx SD From: Gregory Mirsky [mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:56 AM To: Shahram Davari; hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org<= mailto:draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org>; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.= org Subject: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working group last c= all ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) Dear All, What would be the most appropriate subject to continue this discussion? I'l= l give it a try, please feel free to change it. I think that there's nothing that can preclude from supporting UP MEP on MP= LS-TP LSP, according to UP MEP definition of RFC 6371, even when multpiple = PWs mapped to that LSP. Same, I think, is the true for p2mp PW. Note that = service, VPWS, is not part of MPLS-TP architecture. Regards, Greg -----Original Message----- From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-boun= ces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Shahram Davari Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:30 AM To: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org<= mailto:draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org>; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.= org Subject: Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-me= p-map Hideki, So far no RFC or draft has talked about Down or UP MEP for LSPs. But if you= think about it logically LSPs can't have UP-MEP because LSP can carry many= PWs and each PW may enter the LSP from a different port/interface. PWs ca= n have UP-MEP but only for P2P services (VPWS), otherwise they can't have U= P-MEP either (same as LSP). My suggestion is to correct figures and change UP-MEPs to Down-MEPs for LSP= s. Also to mention UP-MEP is out of scope. Thx SD -----Original Message----- From: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com [mailto= :hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:20 AM To: Shahram Davari Cc: loa@pi.nu; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-= ads@tools.ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.= org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tool= s.ietf.org Subject: Re:Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip= -mep-map Hi Shahram, Just one comment. >I would also argue that LSPs can't have UP-MEPs, since PWs from many ingre= ss ports can enter an LSP and therefore the LSP can't start on the ingress= interface. I think this depends on implementations. Any RFC don't restrict to DOWN-MEPs in an LSP. Anyway, MEP mechanism is out of scope in this draft as you said. Thanks, Hideki Endo >Hi, > >Although I mentioned I am Ok with the draft to be advanced to RFC, but aft= er reviewing it in more details it appears that the draft, in spite of its = name, does talk about UP-MEP at all and only talks about UP-MIP, while the = figures show UP-MEPs for LSPs. Even if the scope of the draft is UP-MIP, c= onsidering that there can't be a MIP without a MEP, the draft should have = some wording regarding UP-MEPs and their applicability to LSPs and PWs. I w= ould also argue that LSPs can't have UP-MEPs, since PWs from many ingress p= orts can enter an LSP and therefore the LSP can't start on the ingress int= erface. > >A quick fix at this point is to mention UP-MEP is out of scope and change = the figures to only show Down-MEPs. A better fix is to elaborate on UP-MEP = and its applicability and placement, etc. > >Regards, >Shahram > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bou= nces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of >Shahram Davari >Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2013 11:30 AM >To: Loa Andersson; mpls@ietf.org >Cc: >; mpls-chairs= @tools.ietf.org; >draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org >Subject: Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call on >draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map > >My Comments are addressed and I support this draft to be published as Info= rmational RFC. > >Thx >Shahram > >-----Original Message----- >From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bou= nces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of >Loa Andersson >Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 3:02 AM >To: mpls@ietf.org >Cc: >; mpls-chairs= @tools.ietf.org; >draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org >Subject: [mpls] 2nd working group last call on >draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map > >Working Group, > >draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05.txt has been updated after a previous >last call, due to the nature a and extent of the updates we have chosen >to start a 2nd wg last call. > >The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: >https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map > >There's also a htmlized version available at: >http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05 > >A diff from the previous version is available at: >http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05 > >Please send your comments, including approval of the documents and the >updates to the mpls working group list (mpls@ietf.org) > >This working group last call ends March 13, 2013. > >/Loa >for the MPLS working group co-chairs >-- > > >Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com >Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu >Huawei Technologies (consult) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 >_______________________________________________ >mpls mailing list >mpls@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > > >_______________________________________________ >mpls mailing list >mpls@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > > >_______________________________________________ >mpls mailing list >mpls@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > _______________________________________________ mpls mailing list mpls@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls --_000_7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1120704C4eusaamb103ericsso_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Shahram,
as indicated before, Synthetic LM= is viable option and will work just fine from UP MEP. Would you agree?
 
 &n= bsp;  Regards,
 &n= bsp;      Greg

From: Shahram Davari [mailto:davari= @broadcom.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 2:21 PM
To: Gregory Mirsky
Cc: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.iet= f.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.o= rg
Subject: Re: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working g= roup last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map)

Greg,

First of all MPLS-TP LM can use direct Loss measurement of RFC6374.

Secondly I am not asking on what is your implementation. I am asking l= ogically how do you do LM for LSP UPMEP. You have to let the data packets g= o through forwarding and queuing and be actually delivered to the egress in= terface before you can increment receive LM counter. Just examining the forwarding result is not enough sin= ce for example the link between egress line card and the fabric can be brok= en or have errors. 



Regards,
Shahram


On Mar 13, 2013, at 1:06 PM, "Gregory Mirsky" <gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com> wrote:<= br>
Hi Shahram,
I believe that MPLS-TP LM is what= is called Synthetic Loss Measurement and does not require reporting in-pro= file counters. If my understanding is correct, then I don't see how location of UP MEP in relation to PW A and PW B is im= portant. Besides, could you refer me to definition of in-profile and out-ot= -profile in regard to MPLS-TP. Much obliged.
As for your challenge I do have s= olution but, I believe, it is HW specific. Sorry if you can not do that.
 
 &n= bsp;  Regards,
 &n= bsp;      Greg

From: Shahram Davari [mailto:davari@broadcom.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 12:55 PM
To: Gregory Mirsky; hi= deki.endo.es@hitachi.com
Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org
Subject: RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working g= roup last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map)

Greg,

We have a fundamental difference of opinio= n.  I have been involved in the OAM for over a decade now and one of t= he fundamental architectural requirements is that OAM packets MUST follow the data packets in the network and inside= a switch/router up to the observation point (MEP). So it is not acceptable= for data packets to be on Interface A and for MEP to be on Interface B.

In the example I gave, can you please tell= me how you can do Loss Measurement for the LSP with UP-MEP? How do you inc= rement the LSP UP-MEP receive LM counters for packets received from PW-A and PW-B? and where is the LSP-UP-MEP locat= ed?

Thx
Shahram

From: Gregory Mirsky [mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 12:42 PM
To: Shahram Davari; hi= deki.endo.es@hitachi.com
Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org
Subject: RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working g= roup last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map)

Hi Shahram,

UP MEP, whether as defined by RFC 6371 or as de= fined elsewhere, e.g. IEEE 802.1ag, is not required to be co-located with a= n ingress to monitored service, e.g. attachement circuit, but with logical interface that represents monitored = service. Location of UP MEP is undefined as long as it complies with where = is sends to and receives from OAM packets/frames. In case of MPLS this elem= ent if MPLS forwarding function, in case of Ethernet - Bridge Relay Entity. For MPLS, as long as OAM packet= s sent to forwarding and get proper encapsulation, IMHO, we have ourselves = an UP MEP. How packet being bounced within a node to get such treatment, I = think, is implementation specific.

    Regards,

        Greg

From: Shahram Davari [= mailto:davari@broadcom.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 11:59 AM
To: Gregory Mirsky; hi= deki.endo.es@hitachi.com
Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org
Subject: RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working g= roup last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map)

Greg,

RFC6371 is very high level and does not de= fine whether UP MEP applies to LSP or PW.  Assume there are 2 ingress = interfaces A & B. Each interface maps Ethernet traffic to its own PW (PW-A and PW-B). Now assume both these PWs go inside= the same LSP that exists Interface C. Now please explain if we were to hav= e an UP-MEP for LSP then on which interface would that LSP UP-MEP reside? I= nterface A? B? C?

This simple example shows you can’t = have an LSP UP-MEP.

Thx
SD

From: Gregory Mirsky [mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:56 AM
To: Shahram Davari; hi= deki.endo.es@hitachi.com
Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org
Subject: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working group= last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map)

Dear All,

What would be the most appropriate subject to continue this = discussion? I'll give it a try, please feel free to change it.

I think that there's nothing that can preclude from supporti= ng UP MEP on MPLS-TP LSP, according to UP MEP definition of RFC 6371, even = when multpiple PWs mapped to that LSP. Same, I think, is the true for  p2mp PW. Note that service, VPWS, is = not part of MPLS-TP architecture.

        Regards,

          =       Greg

-----Original Message-----

From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Beha= lf Of Shahram Davari

Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:30 AM

Subject: Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call ondraft-ietf= -mpls-tp-mip-mep-map

Hideki,

So far no RFC or draft has talked about Down or UP MEP for L= SPs. But if you think about it logically LSPs can't have UP-MEP because LSP= can carry many PWs and each PW may enter the LSP from a different port/interface.  PWs can have UP-MEP b= ut only for P2P services (VPWS), otherwise they can't have UP-MEP either (s= ame as LSP).

My suggestion is to correct figures and change UP-MEPs to Do= wn-MEPs for LSPs. Also to mention UP-MEP is out of scope.=

Thx

SD

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:20 AM

To: Shahram Davari

Subject: Re:Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call ondraft-i= etf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map

Hi Shahram,

Just one comment.

>I would also argue that LSPs can't have UP-MEPs, since P= Ws from many ingress ports can enter an LSP  and therefore the LSP can= 't start on the ingress interface.

I think this depends on implementations.

Any RFC don't restrict to DOWN-MEPs in an LSP.

Anyway, MEP mechanism is out of scope in this draft as you s= aid.

Thanks,

Hideki Endo

>Hi,

> 

>Although I mentioned I am Ok with the draft to be advanc= ed to RFC, but after reviewing it in more details it appears that the draft= , in spite of its name, does talk about UP-MEP at all and only talks about UP-MIP, while the figures show UP-MEPs = for LSPs.  Even if the scope of the draft is UP-MIP, considering that = there can't be a MIP without a MEP,  the draft should have some wordin= g regarding UP-MEPs and their applicability to LSPs and PWs. I would also argue that LSPs can't have UP-MEPs, since PW= s from many ingress ports can enter an LSP  and therefore the LSP can'= t start on the ingress interface.

> 

>A quick fix at this point is to mention UP-MEP is out of= scope and change the figures to only show Down-MEPs. A better fix is to el= aborate on UP-MEP and its applicability and placement, etc.

> 

>Regards,

>Shahram

> 

>

> 

>-----Original Message-----

>Shahram Davari

>Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2013 11:30 AM

>To: Loa Andersson; mpls@ietf.org

>Subject: Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call on

>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map

> 

>My Comments are addressed and I support this draft to be= published as Informational  RFC.

> 

>Thx

>Shahram

> 

>-----Original Message-----

>Loa Andersson

>Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 3:02 AM

>Subject: [mpls] 2nd working group last call on

>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map

> 

>Working Group,

> 

>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05.txt has been updated a= fter a previous

>last call, due to the nature a and extent of the updates= we have chosen

>to start a 2nd wg last call.

> 

>The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:=

> 

>There's also a htmlized version available at:=

> 

>A diff from the previous version is available at:

> 

>Please send your comments, including approval of the doc= uments and the

>updates to the mpls working group list (mpls@ietf.org)

> 

>This working group last call ends March 13, 2013.

> 

>/Loa

>for the MPLS working group co-chairs

>--

> 

> 

>Loa Andersson       &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;    email: loa@mail01.huawei.com

>Senior MPLS Expert      &n= bsp;            = ;       loa@pi.nu

>Huawei Technologies (consult)    &nb= sp;   phone: +46 739 81 21 64

>_______________________________________________

>mpls mailing list

>mpls@ietf.org<= /O:P>

> 

> 

>_______________________________________________

>mpls mailing list

>mpls@ietf.org<= /O:P>

> 

> 

>_______________________________________________

>mpls mailing list

>mpls@ietf.org<= /O:P>

> 

_______________________________________________

mpls mailing list

--_000_7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1120704C4eusaamb103ericsso_-- From hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com Wed Mar 13 15:31:14 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A42121F8ABC for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 15:31:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.652 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.652 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.438, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_JP=1.244, HOST_EQ_JP=1.265, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id X5rBMubTJlYM for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 15:31:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail9.hitachi.co.jp (mail9.hitachi.co.jp [133.145.228.44]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF2DA21F85C0 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 15:31:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mlsv6.hitachi.co.jp (unknown [133.144.234.166]) by mail9.hitachi.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDFF737C83; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 07:31:11 +0900 (JST) Received: from mfilter06.hitachi.co.jp by mlsv6.hitachi.co.jp (8.13.1/8.13.1) id r2DMVBKB016011; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 07:31:11 +0900 Received: from vshuts04.hitachi.co.jp (vshuts04.hitachi.co.jp [10.201.6.86]) by mfilter06.hitachi.co.jp (Switch-3.3.4/Switch-3.3.4) with ESMTP id r2DMVAdn027678; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 07:31:11 +0900 Received: from gmml25.itg.hitachi.co.jp (unknown [158.213.165.145]) by vshuts04.hitachi.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72D1E14003B; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 07:31:10 +0900 (JST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] by gmml25.itg.hitachi.co.jp (AIX5.2/8.11.6p2/8.11.0) id r2DMVAb10149996; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 07:31:10 +0900 Message-Type: Multiple Part MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii To: From: Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 07:30:50 +0900 References: <512C960E.70109@pi.nu> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD962A2@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broa> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9AAF4@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broa> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9AB6D@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broa> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF11206FBD5@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9BA48@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broa> Priority: normal Importance: normal X400-Content-Identifier: X5140FE1200000M X400-MTS-Identifier: [/C=JP/ADMD=HITNET/PRMD=HITACHI/;gmml281303140730427LT] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: mpls@ietf.org, mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org, mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org, draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org Subject: Re: [mpls] On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: 2nd working grouplast call o X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 22:31:14 -0000 Sharam, Very simple question. >Assume there are 2 ingress interfaces A & B. Each interface maps Ethernet traffic >to its own PW (PW-A and PW-B). Now assume both these PWs go inside the same LSP that exists Interface C. Why is this assumption mandatory? "Assume there are 1 ingress interfaces A. Two VLAN flows in the interface A are mapped to different PWs (PW-A and PW-B). Now assume both these PWs go inside the same LSP." In this case, UP-MEP of the LSP can be at interface A, right? Thanks, Hideki Endo >Greg, > >RFC6371 is very high level and does not define whether UP MEP applies to LSP or PW. Assume there are 2 ingress interfaces A & B. Each interface maps Ethernet traffic to its own PW (PW-A and PW-B). Now assume both these PWs go inside the same LSP that exists Interface C. Now please explain if we were to have an UP-MEP for LSP then on which interface would that LSP UP-MEP reside? Interface A? B? C? > >This simple example shows you can't have an LSP UP-MEP. > >Thx >SD > >From: Gregory Mirsky [mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com] >Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:56 AM >To: Shahram Davari; hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com >Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org >Subject: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working group last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) > >Dear All, >What would be the most appropriate subject to continue this discussion? I'll give it a try, please feel free to change it. > >I think that there's nothing that can preclude from supporting UP MEP on MPLS-TP LSP, according to UP MEP definition of RFC 6371, even when multpiple PWs mapped to that LSP. Same, I think, is the true for p2mp PW. Note that service, VPWS, is not part of MPLS-TP architecture. > > Regards, > Greg > >-----Original Message----- >From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Shahram Davari >Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:30 AM >To: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com >Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org >Subject: Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map > >Hideki, > >So far no RFC or draft has talked about Down or UP MEP for LSPs. But if you think about it logically LSPs can't have UP-MEP because LSP can carry many PWs and each PW may enter the LSP from a different port/interface. PWs can have UP-MEP but only for P2P services (VPWS), otherwise they can't have UP-MEP either (same as LSP). > >My suggestion is to correct figures and change UP-MEPs to Down-MEPs for LSPs. Also to mention UP-MEP is out of scope. > >Thx >SD > >-----Original Message----- >From: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com [mailto:hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com] >Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:20 AM >To: Shahram Davari >Cc: loa@pi.nu; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org >Subject: Re:Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map > >Hi Shahram, > >Just one comment. > >>I would also argue that LSPs can't have UP-MEPs, since PWs from many ingress ports can enter an LSP and therefore the LSP can't start on the ingress interface. > >I think this depends on implementations. >Any RFC don't restrict to DOWN-MEPs in an LSP. > >Anyway, MEP mechanism is out of scope in this draft as you said. > >Thanks, >Hideki Endo > >>Hi, >> >>Although I mentioned I am Ok with the draft to be advanced to RFC, but after reviewing it in more details it appears that the draft, in spite of its name, does talk about UP-MEP at all and only talks about UP-MIP, while the figures show UP-MEPs for LSPs. Even if the scope of the draft is UP-MIP, considering that there can't be a MIP without a MEP, the draft should have some wording regarding UP-MEPs and their applicability to LSPs and PWs. I would also argue that LSPs can't have UP-MEPs, since PWs from many ingress ports can enter an LSP and therefore the LSP can't start on the ingress interface. >> >>A quick fix at this point is to mention UP-MEP is out of scope and change the figures to only show Down-MEPs. A better fix is to elaborate on UP-MEP and its applicability and placement, etc. >> >>Regards, >>Shahram >> >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of >>Shahram Davari >>Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2013 11:30 AM >>To: Loa Andersson; mpls@ietf.org >>Cc: >; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; >>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org >>Subject: Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call on >>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map >> >>My Comments are addressed and I support this draft to be published as Informational RFC. >> >>Thx >>Shahram >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of >>Loa Andersson >>Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 3:02 AM >>To: mpls@ietf.org >>Cc: >; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; >>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org >>Subject: [mpls] 2nd working group last call on >>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map >> >>Working Group, >> >>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05.txt has been updated after a previous >>last call, due to the nature a and extent of the updates we have chosen >>to start a 2nd wg last call. >> >>The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: >>https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map >> >>There's also a htmlized version available at: >>http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05 >> >>A diff from the previous version is available at: >>http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05 >> >>Please send your comments, including approval of the documents and the >>updates to the mpls working group list (mpls@ietf.org) >> >>This working group last call ends March 13, 2013. >> >>/Loa >>for the MPLS working group co-chairs >>-- >> >> >>Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com >>Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu >>Huawei Technologies (consult) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 >>_______________________________________________ >>mpls mailing list >>mpls@ietf.org >>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>mpls mailing list >>mpls@ietf.org >>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>mpls mailing list >>mpls@ietf.org >>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls >> > > >_______________________________________________ >mpls mailing list >mpls@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > > From gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com Wed Mar 13 15:32:04 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC1E311E80D5 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 15:32:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id L5jGlLufAl2r for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 15:32:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usevmg21.ericsson.net (usevmg21.ericsson.net [198.24.6.65]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B172211E80AD for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 15:32:02 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c6180641-b7faf6d00000096b-f6-5140fe617eb1 Received: from EUSAAHC004.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [147.117.188.84]) by usevmg21.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id C1.E6.02411.26EF0415; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 23:32:02 +0100 (CET) Received: from EUSAAMB103.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.120]) by EUSAAHC004.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.84]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.004; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 18:32:01 -0400 From: Gregory Mirsky To: Huaimo Chen , "ning.so@tatacommunications.com" , Autumn Liu , "liulei.kddi@gmail.com" Thread-Topic: Security Conciderations section in draft-chen-mpls-p2mp-ingress-protection-08 Thread-Index: Ac4gOpPjt0p35qaCSNuR+0L4Ngf5tw== Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 22:32:00 +0000 Message-ID: <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF11207050B@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [147.117.188.135] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF11207050Beusaamb103ericsso_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFnrALMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyuXRPiG7SP4dAg5bfohZbn15htDjZO5/d 4tbSlawWW8+yOrB47Jx1l92j5chbVo8lS34yebyZc4YtgCWKyyYlNSezLLVI3y6BK2P11fmM BQcFKp7du8XawNjP18XIySEhYCIx68J0FghbTOLCvfVsXYxcHEICRxglrh2aygzhLGeUuHh1 EStIFZuAkcSLjT3sIAkRgWOMEtunLgBq5+BgFlCWOHVXBsQUFoiQeHNJA6RcRCBWov3KEnYI W0+i4/ccZhCbRUBVYkX3FiYQm1fAW6J96U+wGkagI76fWgMWZxYQl7j1ZD4TxHECEkv2nGeG sEUlXj7+xwphK0t8n/OIBaI+X6Lh1DRGiJmCEidnPmGZwCg8C8moWUjKZiEpg4jrSCzY/YkN wtaWWLbwNTOMfebAYyZk8QWM7KsYOUqLU8ty040MNzECY+mYBJvjDsYFnywPMUpzsCiJ84a6 XggQEkhPLEnNTk0tSC2KLyrNSS0+xMjEwSnVwCgYfGLBbFnVf6JTX5z4nLzx4MqGA7+kdkR0 Mdy5nlr7I1Zt3kHGE16RX/63tLwQW520u/NO+cd/D29nFf3bIFH+7WTl/C/ibA1vK7z1s5f4 HRXSjFVy1jCc3TPV4XXqiQsXVEKzLiT8llyUetAhsXua1m29lJSKhpmXDSW/Nz1482LVvJ0v Q2yUWIozEg21mIuKEwHCPYz6cwIAAA== Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" Subject: [mpls] Security Conciderations section in draft-chen-mpls-p2mp-ingress-protection-08 X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 22:32:04 -0000 --_000_7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF11207050Beusaamb103ericsso_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Authors, et al., I've noticed that there's still no Security Consideration section in the la= test version of the document. I've asked for this mandatory section to be a= dded during discussion of both egress and ingress documents at MPLS WG meet= ing in Atlanta: Greg: both documents are missing security considerations section. If wor= k continues, I would suggest to add it. I hope that by next presentation substantive Security Consideration section= will be added. Regards, Greg --_000_7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF11207050Beusaamb103ericsso_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear Authors, et al.,
I've noticed that there's still no Security Consideration section in t= he latest version of the document. I've asked for this mandatory section to= be added during discussion of both egress and ingress documents at MPLS WG= meeting in Atlanta:
Greg: both documents are missing security= considerations section. If work continues, I would suggest to add it.
I hope that by next presentation substantive Security Consideration se= ction will be added.
 
        Regards,
           &nbs= p;    Greg
 
 --_000_7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF11207050Beusaamb103ericsso_-- From davari@broadcom.com Wed Mar 13 15:32:25 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56DFC11E80F3 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 15:32:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xLKGi+-JxR5r for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 15:32:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mms1.broadcom.com (mms1.broadcom.com [216.31.210.17]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27C2021F8ADC for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 15:32:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.16.192.232] by mms1.broadcom.com with ESMTP (Broadcom SMTP Relay (Email Firewall v6.5)); Wed, 13 Mar 2013 15:28:18 -0700 X-Server-Uuid: 06151B78-6688-425E-9DE2-57CB27892261 Received: from SJEXCHCAS06.corp.ad.broadcom.com (10.16.203.15) by SJEXCHHUB02.corp.ad.broadcom.com (10.16.192.232) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.2.247.2; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 15:31:02 -0700 Received: from SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com ( [fe80::bc15:c1e1:c29a:36f7]) by SJEXCHCAS06.corp.ad.broadcom.com ( [::1]) with mapi id 14.01.0438.000; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 15:30:41 -0700 From: "Shahram Davari" To: "Gregory Mirsky" Thread-Topic: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working group last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) Thread-Index: AQHOH1NdwRf/Tf9hZk+Xrs65EizX8Jij+Y8wgACCswD//4v/kIAAet+A//+fhICAAIPFAP//jxSg Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 22:30:40 +0000 Message-ID: <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9BD97@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> References: <512C960E.70109@pi.nu> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD962A2@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broa> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9AAF4@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broa> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9AB6D@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF11206FBD5@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9BA48@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF112070391@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9BB39@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com>, <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1120703DD@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <0D4312C0-ED50-4839-B1B0-9D4BF696F88E@broadcom.com> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1120704C4@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> In-Reply-To: <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1120704C4@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.16.203.100] MIME-Version: 1.0 X-WSS-ID: 7D5E22080BG1307162-01-01 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=_000_4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9BD97SJEXCHMB12corpa_ Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , "mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: 2nd working group last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 22:32:25 -0000 --_000_4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9BD97SJEXCHMB12corpa_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Greg, Correct, but we can't define a MEP that can only support a subset of OAM sp= ecially the less desirable ones. Besides Synthetic loss is not accurate and= as far as I know, not many users are interested in Synthetic loss. Thx SD From: Gregory Mirsky [mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 3:13 PM To: Shahram Davari Cc: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; = draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org Subject: RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working group la= st call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) Hi Shahram, as indicated before, Synthetic LM is viable option and will work just fine = from UP MEP. Would you agree? Regards, Greg ________________________________ From: Shahram Davari [mailto:davari@broadcom.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 2:21 PM To: Gregory Mirsky Cc: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com; mpls@iet= f.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org Subject: Re: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working group la= st call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) Greg, First of all MPLS-TP LM can use direct Loss measurement of RFC6374. Secondly I am not asking on what is your implementation. I am asking logica= lly how do you do LM for LSP UPMEP. You have to let the data packets go thr= ough forwarding and queuing and be actually delivered to the egress interfa= ce before you can increment receive LM counter. Just examining the forwardi= ng result is not enough since for example the link between egress line card= and the fabric can be broken or have errors. Regards, Shahram On Mar 13, 2013, at 1:06 PM, "Gregory Mirsky" > wrote: Hi Shahram, I believe that MPLS-TP LM is what is called Synthetic Loss Measurement and = does not require reporting in-profile counters. If my understanding is corr= ect, then I don't see how location of UP MEP in relation to PW A and PW B i= s important. Besides, could you refer me to definition of in-profile and ou= t-ot-profile in regard to MPLS-TP. Much obliged. As for your challenge I do have solution but, I believe, it is HW specific.= Sorry if you can not do that. Regards, Greg ________________________________ From: Shahram Davari [mailto:davari@broadcom.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 12:55 PM To: Gregory Mirsky; hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org<= mailto:draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org>; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.= org Subject: RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working group la= st call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) Greg, We have a fundamental difference of opinion. I have been involved in the O= AM for over a decade now and one of the fundamental architectural requireme= nts is that OAM packets MUST follow the data packets in the network and ins= ide a switch/router up to the observation point (MEP). So it is not accepta= ble for data packets to be on Interface A and for MEP to be on Interface B. In the example I gave, can you please tell me how you can do Loss Measureme= nt for the LSP with UP-MEP? How do you increment the LSP UP-MEP receive LM = counters for packets received from PW-A and PW-B? and where is the LSP-UP-M= EP located? Thx Shahram From: Gregory Mirsky [mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 12:42 PM To: Shahram Davari; hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org<= mailto:draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org>; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.= org Subject: RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working group la= st call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) Hi Shahram, UP MEP, whether as defined by RFC 6371 or as defined elsewhere, e.g. IEEE 8= 02.1ag, is not required to be co-located with an ingress to monitored servi= ce, e.g. attachement circuit, but with logical interface that represents mo= nitored service. Location of UP MEP is undefined as long as it complies wit= h where is sends to and receives from OAM packets/frames. In case of MPLS t= his element if MPLS forwarding function, in case of Ethernet - Bridge Relay= Entity. For MPLS, as long as OAM packets sent to forwarding and get proper= encapsulation, IMHO, we have ourselves an UP MEP. How packet being bounced= within a node to get such treatment, I think, is implementation specific. Regards, Greg ________________________________ From: Shahram Davari [mailto:davari@broadcom.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 11:59 AM To: Gregory Mirsky; hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org<= mailto:draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org>; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.= org Subject: RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working group la= st call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) Greg, RFC6371 is very high level and does not define whether UP MEP applies to LS= P or PW. Assume there are 2 ingress interfaces A & B. Each interface maps = Ethernet traffic to its own PW (PW-A and PW-B). Now assume both these PWs g= o inside the same LSP that exists Interface C. Now please explain if we wer= e to have an UP-MEP for LSP then on which interface would that LSP UP-MEP r= eside? Interface A? B? C? This simple example shows you can't have an LSP UP-MEP. Thx SD From: Gregory Mirsky [mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:56 AM To: Shahram Davari; hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org<= mailto:draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org>; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.= org Subject: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working group last c= all ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) Dear All, What would be the most appropriate subject to continue this discussion? I'l= l give it a try, please feel free to change it. I think that there's nothing that can preclude from supporting UP MEP on MP= LS-TP LSP, according to UP MEP definition of RFC 6371, even when multpiple = PWs mapped to that LSP. Same, I think, is the true for p2mp PW. Note that = service, VPWS, is not part of MPLS-TP architecture. Regards, Greg -----Original Message----- From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-boun= ces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Shahram Davari Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:30 AM To: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org<= mailto:draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org>; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.= org Subject: Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-me= p-map Hideki, So far no RFC or draft has talked about Down or UP MEP for LSPs. But if you= think about it logically LSPs can't have UP-MEP because LSP can carry many= PWs and each PW may enter the LSP from a different port/interface. PWs ca= n have UP-MEP but only for P2P services (VPWS), otherwise they can't have U= P-MEP either (same as LSP). My suggestion is to correct figures and change UP-MEPs to Down-MEPs for LSP= s. Also to mention UP-MEP is out of scope. Thx SD -----Original Message----- From: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com [mailto= :hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:20 AM To: Shahram Davari Cc: loa@pi.nu; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-= ads@tools.ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.= org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tool= s.ietf.org Subject: Re:Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip= -mep-map Hi Shahram, Just one comment. >I would also argue that LSPs can't have UP-MEPs, since PWs from many ingre= ss ports can enter an LSP and therefore the LSP can't start on the ingress= interface. I think this depends on implementations. Any RFC don't restrict to DOWN-MEPs in an LSP. Anyway, MEP mechanism is out of scope in this draft as you said. Thanks, Hideki Endo >Hi, > >Although I mentioned I am Ok with the draft to be advanced to RFC, but aft= er reviewing it in more details it appears that the draft, in spite of its = name, does talk about UP-MEP at all and only talks about UP-MIP, while the = figures show UP-MEPs for LSPs. Even if the scope of the draft is UP-MIP, c= onsidering that there can't be a MIP without a MEP, the draft should have = some wording regarding UP-MEPs and their applicability to LSPs and PWs. I w= ould also argue that LSPs can't have UP-MEPs, since PWs from many ingress p= orts can enter an LSP and therefore the LSP can't start on the ingress int= erface. > >A quick fix at this point is to mention UP-MEP is out of scope and change = the figures to only show Down-MEPs. A better fix is to elaborate on UP-MEP = and its applicability and placement, etc. > >Regards, >Shahram > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bou= nces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of >Shahram Davari >Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2013 11:30 AM >To: Loa Andersson; mpls@ietf.org >Cc: >; mpls-chairs= @tools.ietf.org; >draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org >Subject: Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call on >draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map > >My Comments are addressed and I support this draft to be published as Info= rmational RFC. > >Thx >Shahram > >-----Original Message----- >From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bou= nces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of >Loa Andersson >Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 3:02 AM >To: mpls@ietf.org >Cc: >; mpls-chairs= @tools.ietf.org; >draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org >Subject: [mpls] 2nd working group last call on >draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map > >Working Group, > >draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05.txt has been updated after a previous >last call, due to the nature a and extent of the updates we have chosen >to start a 2nd wg last call. > >The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: >https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map > >There's also a htmlized version available at: >http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05 > >A diff from the previous version is available at: >http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05 > >Please send your comments, including approval of the documents and the >updates to the mpls working group list (mpls@ietf.org) > >This working group last call ends March 13, 2013. > >/Loa >for the MPLS working group co-chairs >-- > > >Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com >Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu >Huawei Technologies (consult) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 >_______________________________________________ >mpls mailing list >mpls@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > > >_______________________________________________ >mpls mailing list >mpls@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > > >_______________________________________________ >mpls mailing list >mpls@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > _______________________________________________ mpls mailing list mpls@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls --_000_4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9BD97SJEXCHMB12corpa_ Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Greg,

 <= /p>

Correct, but we can’= ;t define a MEP that can only support a subset of OAM specially the less de= sirable ones. Besides Synthetic loss is not accurate and as far as I know, not many users are interested in Synthetic loss.

 <= /p>

Thx

SD

 <= /p>

From: Gregory = Mirsky [mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 3:13 PM
To: Shahram Davari
Cc: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.iet= f.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.o= rg
Subject: RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working g= roup last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map)

 

Hi Shahram,<= /p>

as indicated before, Synthetic= LM is viable option and will work just fine from UP MEP. Would you agree?<= /span>

 

    Regards,

        Greg

 

From:<= /span> Shahram Davari [mailto:davari@broadcom.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 2:21 PM
To: Gregory Mirsky
Cc: hideki.endo.es@hit= achi.com; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org
Subject: Re: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working g= roup last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map)

Greg,

 

First of all MPLS-TP LM can use direct Loss measurem= ent of RFC6374.

 

Secondly I am not asking on what is your implementat= ion. I am asking logically how do you do LM for LSP UPMEP. You have to let = the data packets go through forwarding and queuing and be actually delivere= d to the egress interface before you can increment receive LM counter. Just examining the forwarding result is = not enough since for example the link between egress line card and the fabr= ic can be broken or have errors. 

 



Regards,

Shahram

 


On Mar 13, 2013, at 1:06 PM, "Gregory Mirsky" <gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com> wrote:<= o:p>

Hi Shahram,<= /p>

I believe that MPLS-TP LM is w= hat is called Synthetic Loss Measurement and does not require reporting in-= profile counters. If my understanding is correct, then I don't see how location of UP MEP in relation to PW A and PW B is important= . Besides, could you refer me to definition of in-profile and out-ot-profil= e in regard to MPLS-TP. Much obliged.

As for your challenge I do hav= e solution but, I believe, it is HW specific. Sorry if you can not do that.=

 

    Regards,

        Greg

 

From:<= /span> Shahram Davari [mailto:davari@broadcom.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 12:55 PM
To: Gregory Mirsky; hi= deki.endo.es@hitachi.com
Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org
Subject: RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working g= roup last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map)

Greg,

We have a fundamental dif= ference of opinion.  I have been involved in the OAM for over a decade= now and one of the fundamental architectural requirements is that OAM packets MUST follow the data packets in the network and inside a = switch/router up to the observation point (MEP). So it is not acceptable fo= r data packets to be on Interface A and for MEP to be on Interface B.

In the example I gave, ca= n you please tell me how you can do Loss Measurement for the LSP with UP-ME= P? How do you increment the LSP UP-MEP receive LM counters for packets received from PW-A and PW-B? and where is the LSP-UP-MEP locat= ed?

Thx
Shahram

From: Gregory = Mirsky [mailto:gregory.mirsk= y@ericsson.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 12:42 PM
To: Shahram Davari; hi= deki.endo.es@hitachi.com
Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org
Subject: RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working g= roup last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map)

Hi Shahram,<= /p>

UP MEP, whether as defined by = RFC 6371 or as defined elsewhere, e.g. IEEE 802.1ag, is not required to be = co-located with an ingress to monitored service, e.g. attachement circuit, but with logical interface that represents monitored service. Loc= ation of UP MEP is undefined as long as it complies with where is sends to = and receives from OAM packets/frames. In case of MPLS this element if MPLS = forwarding function, in case of Ethernet - Bridge Relay Entity. For MPLS, as long as OAM packets sent to f= orwarding and get proper encapsulation, IMHO, we have ourselves an UP MEP. = How packet being bounced within a node to get such treatment, I think, is i= mplementation specific.

    Regards,

        Greg

From:<= /span> Shahram Davari [mailto:davari@broadcom.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 11:59 AM
To: Gregory Mirsky; hi= deki.endo.es@hitachi.com
Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org
Subject: RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working g= roup last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map)

Greg,

RFC6371 is very high leve= l and does not define whether UP MEP applies to LSP or PW.  Assume the= re are 2 ingress interfaces A & B. Each interface maps Ethernet traffic to its own PW (PW-A and PW-B). Now assume both these PWs go inside= the same LSP that exists Interface C. Now please explain if we were to hav= e an UP-MEP for LSP then on which interface would that LSP UP-MEP reside? I= nterface A? B? C?

This simple example shows= you can’t have an LSP UP-MEP.

Thx
SD

From: Gregory = Mirsky [mailto:gregory.mirsk= y@ericsson.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:56 AM
To: Shahram Davari; hi= deki.endo.es@hitachi.com
Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org
Subject: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working group= last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map)

Dear All,

What would be the most appropriate subjec= t to continue this discussion? I'll give it a try, please feel free to chan= ge it.

I think that there's nothing that can pre= clude from supporting UP MEP on MPLS-TP LSP, according to UP MEP definition= of RFC 6371, even when multpiple PWs mapped to that LSP. Same, I think, is the true for  p2mp PW. Note that service, VPWS, is = not part of MPLS-TP architecture.

       = ; Regards,

       = ;         Greg

-----Original Message-----

From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Beha= lf Of Shahram Davari

Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:30 AM

Subject: Re: [mpls] 2nd working group las= t call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map

Hideki,

So far no RFC or draft has talked about D= own or UP MEP for LSPs. But if you think about it logically LSPs can't have= UP-MEP because LSP can carry many PWs and each PW may enter the LSP from a different port/interface.  PWs can have UP-MEP but onl= y for P2P services (VPWS), otherwise they can't have UP-MEP either (same as= LSP).

My suggestion is to correct figures and c= hange UP-MEPs to Down-MEPs for LSPs. Also to mention UP-MEP is out of scope= .

Thx

SD

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:20 AM

To: Shahram Davari

Subject: Re:Re: [mpls] 2nd working group = last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map

Hi Shahram,

Just one comment.

>I would also argue that LSPs can't ha= ve UP-MEPs, since PWs from many ingress ports can enter an LSP  and th= erefore the LSP can't start on the ingress interface.

I think this depends on implementations.<= /span>

Any RFC don't restrict to DOWN-MEPs in an= LSP.

Anyway, MEP mechanism is out of scope in = this draft as you said.

Thanks,

Hideki Endo

>Hi,

> 

>Although I mentioned I am Ok with the= draft to be advanced to RFC, but after reviewing it in more details it app= ears that the draft, in spite of its name, does talk about UP-MEP at all and only talks about UP-MIP, while the figures show UP-MEPs = for LSPs.  Even if the scope of the draft is UP-MIP, considering that = there can't be a MIP without a MEP,  the draft should have some wordin= g regarding UP-MEPs and their applicability to LSPs and PWs. I would also argue that LSPs can't have UP-MEPs, since PW= s from many ingress ports can enter an LSP  and therefore the LSP can'= t start on the ingress interface.

> 

>A quick fix at this point is to menti= on UP-MEP is out of scope and change the figures to only show Down-MEPs. A = better fix is to elaborate on UP-MEP and its applicability and placement, etc.

> 

>Regards,

>Shahram

> 

>

> 

>-----Original Message-----

>Shahram Davari

>Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2013 11:30= AM

>To: Loa Andersson; mpls@ietf.org

>Subject: Re: [mpls] 2nd working group= last call on

>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map=

> 

>My Comments are addressed and I suppo= rt this draft to be published as Informational  RFC.=

> 

>Thx

>Shahram

> 

>-----Original Message-----

>Loa Andersson

>Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 3:02= AM

>Subject: [mpls] 2nd working group las= t call on

>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map=

> 

>Working Group,

> 

>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05.txt= has been updated after a previous

>last call, due to the nature a and ex= tent of the updates we have chosen

>to start a 2nd wg last call.

> 

>The IETF datatracker status page for = this draft is:

> 

>There's also a htmlized version avail= able at:

> 

>A diff from the previous version is a= vailable at:

> 

>Please send your comments, including = approval of the documents and the

>updates to the mpls working group lis= t (mpls@ietf.org)

> 

>This working group last call ends Mar= ch 13, 2013.

> 

>/Loa

>for the MPLS working group co-chairs<= /span>

>--

> 

> 

>Loa Andersson    =             &nb= sp;       email: loa@mail01.huawei.com

>Senior MPLS Expert   &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;          loa@pi.nu

>Huawei Technologies (consult) &n= bsp;      phone: +46 739 81 21 64<= /o:p>

>_____________________________________= __________

>mpls mailing list

> 

> 

>_____________________________________= __________

>mpls mailing list

> 

> 

>_____________________________________= __________

>mpls mailing list

> 

_________________________________________= ______

mpls mailing list

--_000_4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9BD97SJEXCHMB12corpa_-- From davari@broadcom.com Wed Mar 13 15:36:18 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E89621F8B47 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 15:36:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9Vfgq3qr-YKX for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 15:36:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mms3.broadcom.com (mms3.broadcom.com [216.31.210.19]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37F6421F87D0 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 15:36:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.16.192.232] by mms3.broadcom.com with ESMTP (Broadcom SMTP Relay (Email Firewall v6.5)); Wed, 13 Mar 2013 15:29:12 -0700 X-Server-Uuid: B86B6450-0931-4310-942E-F00ED04CA7AF Received: from SJEXCHCAS05.corp.ad.broadcom.com (10.16.203.13) by SJEXCHHUB02.corp.ad.broadcom.com (10.16.192.232) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.2.247.2; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 15:35:58 -0700 Received: from SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com ( [fe80::bc15:c1e1:c29a:36f7]) by SJEXCHCAS05.corp.ad.broadcom.com ( [::1]) with mapi id 14.01.0438.000; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 15:35:33 -0700 From: "Shahram Davari" To: "hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com" Thread-Topic: Re:RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working grouplast call o Thread-Index: AQHOIDp/5QVkcd6DI0igAOzMQrmvRpikNPnQ Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 22:35:33 +0000 Message-ID: <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9BDE1@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> References: <512C960E.70109@pi.nu> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD962A2@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broa> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9AAF4@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broa> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9AB6D@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broa> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF11206FBD5@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9BA48@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broa> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.16.203.100] MIME-Version: 1.0 X-WSS-ID: 7D5E22323YC1373582-01-01 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , "mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: 2nd working grouplast call o X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 22:36:18 -0000 Hideki, Correct, but such LSP that can only accept packets from a single interface = is very niche application and not generic enough to define an UPMEP for it.= We need a definition that is applicable to LSPs in general. Thx SD -----Original Message----- From: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com [mailto:hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com]=20 Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 3:31 PM To: Shahram Davari Cc: gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org;= draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org Subject: Re:RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working group= last call o Sharam, Very simple question. >Assume there are 2 ingress interfaces A & B. Each interface maps Ethernet = traffic >to its own PW (PW-A and PW-B). Now assume both these PWs go inside the sam= e LSP that exists Interface C.=20 Why is this assumption mandatory? "Assume there are 1 ingress interfaces A. Two VLAN flows in the interface A= are mapped to different PWs (PW-A and PW-B). Now assume both these PWs go inside the = same LSP." In this case, UP-MEP of the LSP can be at interface A, right? Thanks, Hideki Endo >Greg, > >RFC6371 is very high level and does not define whether UP MEP applies to L= SP or PW. Assume there are 2 ingress interfaces A & B. Each interface maps= Ethernet traffic to its own PW (PW-A and PW-B). Now assume both these PWs = go inside the same LSP that exists Interface C. Now please explain if we we= re to have an UP-MEP for LSP then on which interface would that LSP UP-MEP = reside? Interface A? B? C? > >This simple example shows you can't have an LSP UP-MEP. > >Thx >SD > >From: Gregory Mirsky [mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com] >Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:56 AM >To: Shahram Davari; hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com >Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-= map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org >Subject: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working group last = call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) > >Dear All, >What would be the most appropriate subject to continue this discussion? I'= ll give it a try, please feel free to change it. > >I think that there's nothing that can preclude from supporting UP MEP on M= PLS-TP LSP, according to UP MEP definition of RFC 6371, even when multpiple= PWs mapped to that LSP. Same, I think, is the true for p2mp PW. Note that= service, VPWS, is not part of MPLS-TP architecture. > > Regards, > Greg > >-----Original Message----- >From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bou= nces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Shahram Davari >Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:30 AM >To: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com >Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org= ; mpls-ads@tools.ietf= .org >Subject: Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-m= ep-map > >Hideki, > >So far no RFC or draft has talked about Down or UP MEP for LSPs. But if yo= u think about it logically LSPs can't have UP-MEP because LSP can carry man= y PWs and each PW may enter the LSP from a different port/interface. PWs c= an have UP-MEP but only for P2P services (VPWS), otherwise they can't have = UP-MEP either (same as LSP). > >My suggestion is to correct figures and change UP-MEPs to Down-MEPs for LS= Ps. Also to mention UP-MEP is out of scope. > >Thx >SD > >-----Original Message----- >From: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com [mailt= o:hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com] >Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:20 AM >To: Shahram Davari >Cc: loa@pi.nu; mpls@ietf.org; mpls= -ads@tools.ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf= .org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@too= ls.ietf.org >Subject: Re:Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mi= p-mep-map > >Hi Shahram, > >Just one comment. > >>I would also argue that LSPs can't have UP-MEPs, since PWs from many ingr= ess ports can enter an LSP and therefore the LSP can't start on the ingres= s interface. > >I think this depends on implementations. >Any RFC don't restrict to DOWN-MEPs in an LSP. > >Anyway, MEP mechanism is out of scope in this draft as you said. > >Thanks, >Hideki Endo > >>Hi, >> >>Although I mentioned I am Ok with the draft to be advanced to RFC, but af= ter reviewing it in more details it appears that the draft, in spite of its= name, does talk about UP-MEP at all and only talks about UP-MIP, while the= figures show UP-MEPs for LSPs. Even if the scope of the draft is UP-MIP, = considering that there can't be a MIP without a MEP, the draft should have= some wording regarding UP-MEPs and their applicability to LSPs and PWs. I = would also argue that LSPs can't have UP-MEPs, since PWs from many ingress = ports can enter an LSP and therefore the LSP can't start on the ingress in= terface. >> >>A quick fix at this point is to mention UP-MEP is out of scope and change= the figures to only show Down-MEPs. A better fix is to elaborate on UP-MEP= and its applicability and placement, etc. >> >>Regards, >>Shahram >> >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bo= unces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of >>Shahram Davari >>Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2013 11:30 AM >>To: Loa Andersson; mpls@ietf.org >>Cc: >; mpls-chair= s@tools.ietf.org; >>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org >>Subject: Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call on >>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map >> >>My Comments are addressed and I support this draft to be published as Inf= ormational RFC. >> >>Thx >>Shahram >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bo= unces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of >>Loa Andersson >>Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 3:02 AM >>To: mpls@ietf.org >>Cc: >; mpls-chair= s@tools.ietf.org; >>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org >>Subject: [mpls] 2nd working group last call on >>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map >> >>Working Group, >> >>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05.txt has been updated after a previous >>last call, due to the nature a and extent of the updates we have chosen >>to start a 2nd wg last call. >> >>The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: >>https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map >> >>There's also a htmlized version available at: >>http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05 >> >>A diff from the previous version is available at: >>http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05 >> >>Please send your comments, including approval of the documents and the >>updates to the mpls working group list (mpls@ietf.org) >> >>This working group last call ends March 13, 2013. >> >>/Loa >>for the MPLS working group co-chairs >>-- >> >> >>Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com >>Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu >>Huawei Technologies (consult) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 >>_______________________________________________ >>mpls mailing list >>mpls@ietf.org >>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>mpls mailing list >>mpls@ietf.org >>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>mpls mailing list >>mpls@ietf.org >>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls >> > > >_______________________________________________ >mpls mailing list >mpls@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > > From gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com Wed Mar 13 15:37:02 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C34F21F8A99 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 15:37:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OdejQRRqgcDB for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 15:36:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usevmg21.ericsson.net (usevmg21.ericsson.net [198.24.6.65]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA71411E8103 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 15:36:51 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c6180641-b7faf6d00000096b-c3-5140ff821536 Received: from EUSAAHC001.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [147.117.188.75]) by usevmg21.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id BF.07.02411.38FF0415; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 23:36:51 +0100 (CET) Received: from EUSAAMB103.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.120]) by EUSAAHC001.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.75]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.004; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 18:36:50 -0400 From: Gregory Mirsky To: Shahram Davari Thread-Topic: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working group last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) Thread-Index: AQHOIDqiu6Z2uMbcmE2nvQTGP+NdF5ikNXVg Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 22:36:49 +0000 Message-ID: <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF112070535@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> References: <512C960E.70109@pi.nu> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD962A2@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broa> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9AAF4@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broa> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9AB6D@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF11206FBD5@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9BA48@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF112070391@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9BB39@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com>, <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1120703DD@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <0D4312C0-ED50-4839-B1B0-9D4BF696F88E@broadcom.com> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1120704C4@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9BD97@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> In-Reply-To: <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9BD97@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [147.117.188.135] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF112070535eusaamb103ericsso_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFmphkeLIzCtJLcpLzFFi42KZXLrHW7f5v0OgwdRVchbrez0tmm+dZbe4 /uU9k8WSlx3sFt8vLWGxuLV0JasDm8es+2fZPFrPrGHxWLLkJ5PHl8uf2QJYorhsUlJzMstS i/TtErgytmy4zlbw7yBzxYZ3s5gbGK/3MHcxcnJICJhIHNm6jBXCFpO4cG89WxcjF4eQwBFG ibXP9rNCOMsZJeY8280CUsUmYCTxYmMPO4gtIqAhcfDWFWaQImaB7UwSty/PZAJJCAuUSUx/ tooVoqhc4vv9i4xdjBxAtpHEr6cCIGEWAVWJ/vZ+RhCbV8Bb4tSbeYwQyy6ySSxt/wDWyykQ LrG3ZT7YMkag876fWgM2n1lAXOLWk/lMEGcLSCzZcx7qHVGJl4//Qb2jLPF9ziMWkL3MAvkS P7vjIXYJSpyc+YRlAqPoLCSTZiFUzUJSBVGiI7Fg9yc2CFtbYtnC18ww9pkDj5mQxRcwsq9i 5CgtTi3LTTcy3MQIjMljEmyOOxgXfLI8xCjNwaIkzhvqeiFASCA9sSQ1OzW1ILUovqg0J7X4 ECMTB6dUA2OysHbytas3wnV/c00K8N/t5viLa2Pehd77yofYdH/taTE2WRl7t2m3sv9+tgoz mTb1y0nVAukNjgEZP6bpn66ybr4UIHgsYFPlxh1rJ4U6xT49wc6y2S5p714ZhbK8X1Mm7jjy 6unJqdtbZDeYp4qt+r5ng+ba9WbpVzmy95e5ph2bdUKU67YSS3FGoqEWc1FxIgDhol14lwIA AA== Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , "mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: 2nd working group last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 22:37:02 -0000 --_000_7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF112070535eusaamb103ericsso_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Shahram, I think that we came to state of declaring personal preferences and discuss= ing specifics of various implementations. Best regards, Greg ________________________________ From: Shahram Davari [mailto:davari@broadcom.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 3:31 PM To: Gregory Mirsky Cc: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; = draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org Subject: RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working group la= st call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) Hi Greg, Correct, but we can't define a MEP that can only support a subset of OAM sp= ecially the less desirable ones. Besides Synthetic loss is not accurate and= as far as I know, not many users are interested in Synthetic loss. Thx SD From: Gregory Mirsky [mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 3:13 PM To: Shahram Davari Cc: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; = draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org Subject: RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working group la= st call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) Hi Shahram, as indicated before, Synthetic LM is viable option and will work just fine = from UP MEP. Would you agree? Regards, Greg ________________________________ From: Shahram Davari [mailto:davari@broadcom.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 2:21 PM To: Gregory Mirsky Cc: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com; mpls@iet= f.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org Subject: Re: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working group la= st call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) Greg, First of all MPLS-TP LM can use direct Loss measurement of RFC6374. Secondly I am not asking on what is your implementation. I am asking logica= lly how do you do LM for LSP UPMEP. You have to let the data packets go thr= ough forwarding and queuing and be actually delivered to the egress interfa= ce before you can increment receive LM counter. Just examining the forwardi= ng result is not enough since for example the link between egress line card= and the fabric can be broken or have errors. Regards, Shahram On Mar 13, 2013, at 1:06 PM, "Gregory Mirsky" > wrote: Hi Shahram, I believe that MPLS-TP LM is what is called Synthetic Loss Measurement and = does not require reporting in-profile counters. If my understanding is corr= ect, then I don't see how location of UP MEP in relation to PW A and PW B i= s important. Besides, could you refer me to definition of in-profile and ou= t-ot-profile in regard to MPLS-TP. Much obliged. As for your challenge I do have solution but, I believe, it is HW specific.= Sorry if you can not do that. Regards, Greg ________________________________ From: Shahram Davari [mailto:davari@broadcom.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 12:55 PM To: Gregory Mirsky; hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org<= mailto:draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org>; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.= org Subject: RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working group la= st call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) Greg, We have a fundamental difference of opinion. I have been involved in the O= AM for over a decade now and one of the fundamental architectural requireme= nts is that OAM packets MUST follow the data packets in the network and ins= ide a switch/router up to the observation point (MEP). So it is not accepta= ble for data packets to be on Interface A and for MEP to be on Interface B. In the example I gave, can you please tell me how you can do Loss Measureme= nt for the LSP with UP-MEP? How do you increment the LSP UP-MEP receive LM = counters for packets received from PW-A and PW-B? and where is the LSP-UP-M= EP located? Thx Shahram From: Gregory Mirsky [mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 12:42 PM To: Shahram Davari; hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org<= mailto:draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org>; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.= org Subject: RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working group la= st call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) Hi Shahram, UP MEP, whether as defined by RFC 6371 or as defined elsewhere, e.g. IEEE 8= 02.1ag, is not required to be co-located with an ingress to monitored servi= ce, e.g. attachement circuit, but with logical interface that represents mo= nitored service. Location of UP MEP is undefined as long as it complies wit= h where is sends to and receives from OAM packets/frames. In case of MPLS t= his element if MPLS forwarding function, in case of Ethernet - Bridge Relay= Entity. For MPLS, as long as OAM packets sent to forwarding and get proper= encapsulation, IMHO, we have ourselves an UP MEP. How packet being bounced= within a node to get such treatment, I think, is implementation specific. Regards, Greg ________________________________ From: Shahram Davari [mailto:davari@broadcom.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 11:59 AM To: Gregory Mirsky; hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org<= mailto:draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org>; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.= org Subject: RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working group la= st call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) Greg, RFC6371 is very high level and does not define whether UP MEP applies to LS= P or PW. Assume there are 2 ingress interfaces A & B. Each interface maps = Ethernet traffic to its own PW (PW-A and PW-B). Now assume both these PWs g= o inside the same LSP that exists Interface C. Now please explain if we wer= e to have an UP-MEP for LSP then on which interface would that LSP UP-MEP r= eside? Interface A? B? C? This simple example shows you can't have an LSP UP-MEP. Thx SD From: Gregory Mirsky [mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:56 AM To: Shahram Davari; hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org<= mailto:draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org>; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.= org Subject: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working group last c= all ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) Dear All, What would be the most appropriate subject to continue this discussion? I'l= l give it a try, please feel free to change it. I think that there's nothing that can preclude from supporting UP MEP on MP= LS-TP LSP, according to UP MEP definition of RFC 6371, even when multpiple = PWs mapped to that LSP. Same, I think, is the true for p2mp PW. Note that = service, VPWS, is not part of MPLS-TP architecture. Regards, Greg -----Original Message----- From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-boun= ces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Shahram Davari Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:30 AM To: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org<= mailto:draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org>; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.= org Subject: Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-me= p-map Hideki, So far no RFC or draft has talked about Down or UP MEP for LSPs. But if you= think about it logically LSPs can't have UP-MEP because LSP can carry many= PWs and each PW may enter the LSP from a different port/interface. PWs ca= n have UP-MEP but only for P2P services (VPWS), otherwise they can't have U= P-MEP either (same as LSP). My suggestion is to correct figures and change UP-MEPs to Down-MEPs for LSP= s. Also to mention UP-MEP is out of scope. Thx SD -----Original Message----- From: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com [mailto= :hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:20 AM To: Shahram Davari Cc: loa@pi.nu; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-= ads@tools.ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.= org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tool= s.ietf.org Subject: Re:Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip= -mep-map Hi Shahram, Just one comment. >I would also argue that LSPs can't have UP-MEPs, since PWs from many ingre= ss ports can enter an LSP and therefore the LSP can't start on the ingress= interface. I think this depends on implementations. Any RFC don't restrict to DOWN-MEPs in an LSP. Anyway, MEP mechanism is out of scope in this draft as you said. Thanks, Hideki Endo >Hi, > >Although I mentioned I am Ok with the draft to be advanced to RFC, but aft= er reviewing it in more details it appears that the draft, in spite of its = name, does talk about UP-MEP at all and only talks about UP-MIP, while the = figures show UP-MEPs for LSPs. Even if the scope of the draft is UP-MIP, c= onsidering that there can't be a MIP without a MEP, the draft should have = some wording regarding UP-MEPs and their applicability to LSPs and PWs. I w= ould also argue that LSPs can't have UP-MEPs, since PWs from many ingress p= orts can enter an LSP and therefore the LSP can't start on the ingress int= erface. > >A quick fix at this point is to mention UP-MEP is out of scope and change = the figures to only show Down-MEPs. A better fix is to elaborate on UP-MEP = and its applicability and placement, etc. > >Regards, >Shahram > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bou= nces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of >Shahram Davari >Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2013 11:30 AM >To: Loa Andersson; mpls@ietf.org >Cc: >; mpls-chairs= @tools.ietf.org; >draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org >Subject: Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call on >draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map > >My Comments are addressed and I support this draft to be published as Info= rmational RFC. > >Thx >Shahram > >-----Original Message----- >From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bou= nces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of >Loa Andersson >Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 3:02 AM >To: mpls@ietf.org >Cc: >; mpls-chairs= @tools.ietf.org; >draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org >Subject: [mpls] 2nd working group last call on >draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map > >Working Group, > >draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05.txt has been updated after a previous >last call, due to the nature a and extent of the updates we have chosen >to start a 2nd wg last call. > >The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: >https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map > >There's also a htmlized version available at: >http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05 > >A diff from the previous version is available at: >http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05 > >Please send your comments, including approval of the documents and the >updates to the mpls working group list (mpls@ietf.org) > >This working group last call ends March 13, 2013. > >/Loa >for the MPLS working group co-chairs >-- > > >Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com >Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu >Huawei Technologies (consult) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 >_______________________________________________ >mpls mailing list >mpls@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > > >_______________________________________________ >mpls mailing list >mpls@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > > >_______________________________________________ >mpls mailing list >mpls@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > _______________________________________________ mpls mailing list mpls@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls --_000_7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF112070535eusaamb103ericsso_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Shahram,
I think that we came to state of = declaring personal preferences and discussing specifics of various implemen= tations.
 
 &n= bsp;  Best regards,
 &n= bsp;      Greg

From: Shahram Davari [mailto:davari= @broadcom.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 3:31 PM
To: Gregory Mirsky
Cc: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.iet= f.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.o= rg
Subject: RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working g= roup last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map)

Hi Greg,

 

Correct, but we can’t define a MEP t= hat can only support a subset of OAM specially the less desirable ones. Bes= ides Synthetic loss is not accurate and as far as I know, not many users are interested in Synthetic loss.=

 

Thx

SD

 

From: Gregory Mirsky [mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson= .com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 3:13 PM
To: Shahram Davari
Cc: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.iet= f.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.o= rg
Subject: RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working g= roup last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map)

 

Hi Shahram,

as indicated before, Synthetic LM is viable opt= ion and will work just fine from UP MEP. Would you agree?=

 

    Regards,

        Greg

 

From: Shahram Davari [= mailto:davari@broadcom.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 2:21 PM
To: Gregory Mirsky
Cc: hideki.endo.es@hit= achi.com; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org
Subject: Re: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working g= roup last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map)

Greg,

 

First of all MPLS-TP LM can use direct Loss measurem= ent of RFC6374.

 

Secondly I am not asking on what is your implementat= ion. I am asking logically how do you do LM for LSP UPMEP. You have to let = the data packets go through forwarding and queuing and be actually delivere= d to the egress interface before you can increment receive LM counter. Just examining the forwarding result is = not enough since for example the link between egress line card and the fabr= ic can be broken or have errors. 

 



Regards,

Shahram

 


On Mar 13, 2013, at 1:06 PM, "Gregory Mirsky" <gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com> wrote:<= o:p>

Hi Shahram,

I believe that MPLS-TP LM is what is called Syn= thetic Loss Measurement and does not require reporting in-profile counters.= If my understanding is correct, then I don't see how location of UP MEP in relation to PW A and PW B is importa= nt. Besides, could you refer me to definition of in-profile and out-ot-prof= ile in regard to MPLS-TP. Much obliged.

As for your challenge I do have solution but, I= believe, it is HW specific. Sorry if you can not do that.

 

    Regards,

        Greg

 

From: Shahram Davari [= mailto:davari@broadcom.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 12:55 PM
To: Gregory Mirsky; hi= deki.endo.es@hitachi.com
Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org
Subject: RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working g= roup last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map)

Greg,

We have a fundamental difference of opinio= n.  I have been involved in the OAM for over a decade now and one of t= he fundamental architectural requirements is that OAM packets MUST follow the data packets in the network and inside= a switch/router up to the observation point (MEP). So it is not acceptable= for data packets to be on Interface A and for MEP to be on Interface B.

In the example I gave, can you please tell= me how you can do Loss Measurement for the LSP with UP-MEP? How do you inc= rement the LSP UP-MEP receive LM counters for packets received from PW-A and PW-B? and where is the LSP-UP-MEP locat= ed?

Thx
Shahram

From: Gregory Mirsky [mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 12:42 PM
To: Shahram Davari; hi= deki.endo.es@hitachi.com
Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org
Subject: RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working g= roup last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map)

Hi Shahram,

UP MEP, whether as defined by RFC 6371 or as de= fined elsewhere, e.g. IEEE 802.1ag, is not required to be co-located with a= n ingress to monitored service, e.g. attachement circuit, but with logical interface that represents monitored = service. Location of UP MEP is undefined as long as it complies with where = is sends to and receives from OAM packets/frames. In case of MPLS this elem= ent if MPLS forwarding function, in case of Ethernet - Bridge Relay Entity. For MPLS, as long as OAM packet= s sent to forwarding and get proper encapsulation, IMHO, we have ourselves = an UP MEP. How packet being bounced within a node to get such treatment, I = think, is implementation specific.

    Regards,

        Greg

From: Shahram Davari [= mailto:davari@broadcom.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 11:59 AM
To: Gregory Mirsky; hi= deki.endo.es@hitachi.com
Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org
Subject: RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working g= roup last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map)

Greg,

RFC6371 is very high level and does not de= fine whether UP MEP applies to LSP or PW.  Assume there are 2 ingress = interfaces A & B. Each interface maps Ethernet traffic to its own PW (PW-A and PW-B). Now assume both these PWs go inside= the same LSP that exists Interface C. Now please explain if we were to hav= e an UP-MEP for LSP then on which interface would that LSP UP-MEP reside? I= nterface A? B? C?

This simple example shows you can’t = have an LSP UP-MEP.

Thx
SD

From: Gregory Mirsky [mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:56 AM
To: Shahram Davari; hi= deki.endo.es@hitachi.com
Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org
Subject: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working group= last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map)

Dear All,

What would be the most appropriate subject to continue this = discussion? I'll give it a try, please feel free to change it.

I think that there's nothing that can preclude from supporti= ng UP MEP on MPLS-TP LSP, according to UP MEP definition of RFC 6371, even = when multpiple PWs mapped to that LSP. Same, I think, is the true for  p2mp PW. Note that service, VPWS, is = not part of MPLS-TP architecture.

        Regards,

          =       Greg

-----Original Message-----

From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Beha= lf Of Shahram Davari

Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:30 AM

Subject: Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call ondraft-ietf= -mpls-tp-mip-mep-map

Hideki,

So far no RFC or draft has talked about Down or UP MEP for L= SPs. But if you think about it logically LSPs can't have UP-MEP because LSP= can carry many PWs and each PW may enter the LSP from a different port/interface.  PWs can have UP-MEP b= ut only for P2P services (VPWS), otherwise they can't have UP-MEP either (s= ame as LSP).

My suggestion is to correct figures and change UP-MEPs to Do= wn-MEPs for LSPs. Also to mention UP-MEP is out of scope.=

Thx

SD

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:20 AM

To: Shahram Davari

Subject: Re:Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call ondraft-i= etf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map

Hi Shahram,

Just one comment.

>I would also argue that LSPs can't have UP-MEPs, since P= Ws from many ingress ports can enter an LSP  and therefore the LSP can= 't start on the ingress interface.

I think this depends on implementations.

Any RFC don't restrict to DOWN-MEPs in an LSP.

Anyway, MEP mechanism is out of scope in this draft as you s= aid.

Thanks,

Hideki Endo

>Hi,

> 

>Although I mentioned I am Ok with the draft to be advanc= ed to RFC, but after reviewing it in more details it appears that the draft= , in spite of its name, does talk about UP-MEP at all and only talks about UP-MIP, while the figures show UP-MEPs = for LSPs.  Even if the scope of the draft is UP-MIP, considering that = there can't be a MIP without a MEP,  the draft should have some wordin= g regarding UP-MEPs and their applicability to LSPs and PWs. I would also argue that LSPs can't have UP-MEPs, since PW= s from many ingress ports can enter an LSP  and therefore the LSP can'= t start on the ingress interface.

> 

>A quick fix at this point is to mention UP-MEP is out of= scope and change the figures to only show Down-MEPs. A better fix is to el= aborate on UP-MEP and its applicability and placement, etc.

> 

>Regards,

>Shahram

> 

>

> 

>-----Original Message-----

>Shahram Davari

>Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2013 11:30 AM

>To: Loa Andersson; mpls@ietf.org

>Subject: Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call on

>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map

> 

>My Comments are addressed and I support this draft to be= published as Informational  RFC.

> 

>Thx

>Shahram

> 

>-----Original Message-----

>Loa Andersson

>Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 3:02 AM

>Subject: [mpls] 2nd working group last call on

>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map

> 

>Working Group,

> 

>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05.txt has been updated a= fter a previous

>last call, due to the nature a and extent of the updates= we have chosen

>to start a 2nd wg last call.

> 

>The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:

> 

>There's also a htmlized version available at:

> 

>A diff from the previous version is available at:=

> 

>Please send your comments, including approval of the doc= uments and the

>updates to the mpls working group list (mpls@ietf.org)

> 

>This working group last call ends March 13, 2013.=

> 

>/Loa

>for the MPLS working group co-chairs

>--

> 

> 

>Loa Andersson       &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;    email: loa@mail01.huawei.com

>Senior MPLS Expert      &n= bsp;            = ;       loa@pi.nu

>Huawei Technologies (consult)    &nb= sp;   phone: +46 739 81 21 64

>_______________________________________________

>mpls mailing list

> 

> 

>_______________________________________________

>mpls mailing list

> 

> 

>_______________________________________________

>mpls mailing list

> 

_______________________________________________<= /o:p>

mpls mailing list

--_000_7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF112070535eusaamb103ericsso_-- From hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com Wed Mar 13 15:46:58 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 086D911E8119 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 15:46:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.798 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.798 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.292, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_JP=1.244, HOST_EQ_JP=1.265, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Jbaku29FDyic for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 15:46:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail9.hitachi.co.jp (mail9.hitachi.co.jp [133.145.228.44]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E96511E8106 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 15:46:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mlsv8.hitachi.co.jp (unknown [133.144.234.166]) by mail9.hitachi.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AFAB37C85; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 07:46:56 +0900 (JST) Received: from mfilter03.hitachi.co.jp by mlsv8.hitachi.co.jp (8.13.1/8.13.1) id r2DMkuSm007143; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 07:46:56 +0900 Received: from vshuts01.hitachi.co.jp (vshuts01.hitachi.co.jp [10.201.6.83]) by mfilter03.hitachi.co.jp (Switch-3.3.4/Switch-3.3.4) with ESMTP id r2DMksG3015837; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 07:46:55 +0900 Received: from gmml25.itg.hitachi.co.jp (unknown [158.213.165.145]) by vshuts01.hitachi.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D35732F007D; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 07:46:54 +0900 (JST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] by gmml25.itg.hitachi.co.jp (AIX5.2/8.11.6p2/8.11.0) id r2DMksA18116696; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 07:46:54 +0900 Message-Type: Multiple Part MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii To: From: Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 07:46:36 +0900 References: <512C960E.70109@pi.nu> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD962A2@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broa> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9AAF4@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broa> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9AB6D@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broa> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF11206FBD5@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9BA48@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broa> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9BDE1@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broa> Priority: normal Importance: normal X400-Content-Identifier: X514101C000000M X400-MTS-Identifier: [/C=JP/ADMD=HITNET/PRMD=HITACHI/;gmml2813031407462471E] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: mpls@ietf.org, mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org, mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org, draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org Subject: Re: [mpls] On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: 2ndworking grouplast X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 22:46:58 -0000 Sharam, Yes niche, but possible. If there are any possibilities, we MUST NOT preclude the possibilities in an international standard. Thanks, Hideki Endo >Hideki, > >Correct, but such LSP that can only accept packets from a single interface is very niche application and not generic enough to define an UPMEP for it. We need a definition that is applicable to LSPs in general. > >Thx >SD > >-----Original Message----- >From: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com [mailto:hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com] >Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 3:31 PM >To: Shahram Davari >Cc: gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org >Subject: Re:RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working grouplast call o > >Sharam, > >Very simple question. > >>Assume there are 2 ingress interfaces A & B. Each interface maps Ethernet traffic >>to its own PW (PW-A and PW-B). Now assume both these PWs go inside the same LSP that exists Interface C. >Why is this assumption mandatory? > >"Assume there are 1 ingress interfaces A. Two VLAN flows in the interface A are mapped > to different PWs (PW-A and PW-B). Now assume both these PWs go inside the same LSP." >In this case, UP-MEP of the LSP can be at interface A, right? > >Thanks, >Hideki Endo > > >>Greg, >> >>RFC6371 is very high level and does not define whether UP MEP applies to LSP or PW. Assume there are 2 ingress interfaces A & B. Each interface maps Ethernet traffic to its own PW (PW-A and PW-B). Now assume both these PWs go inside the same LSP that exists Interface C. Now please explain if we were to have an UP-MEP for LSP then on which interface would that LSP UP-MEP reside? Interface A? B? C? >> >>This simple example shows you can't have an LSP UP-MEP. >> >>Thx >>SD >> >>From: Gregory Mirsky [mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com] >>Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:56 AM >>To: Shahram Davari; hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com >>Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org >>Subject: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working group last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) >> >>Dear All, >>What would be the most appropriate subject to continue this discussion? I'll give it a try, please feel free to change it. >> >>I think that there's nothing that can preclude from supporting UP MEP on MPLS-TP LSP, according to UP MEP definition of RFC 6371, even when multpiple PWs mapped to that LSP. Same, I think, is the true for p2mp PW. Note that service, VPWS, is not part of MPLS-TP architecture. >> >> Regards, >> Greg >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Shahram Davari >>Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:30 AM >>To: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com >>Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org >>Subject: Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map >> >>Hideki, >> >>So far no RFC or draft has talked about Down or UP MEP for LSPs. But if you think about it logically LSPs can't have UP-MEP because LSP can carry many PWs and each PW may enter the LSP from a different port/interface. PWs can have UP-MEP but only for P2P services (VPWS), otherwise they can't have UP-MEP either (same as LSP). >> >>My suggestion is to correct figures and change UP-MEPs to Down-MEPs for LSPs. Also to mention UP-MEP is out of scope. >> >>Thx >>SD >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com [mailto:hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com] >>Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:20 AM >>To: Shahram Davari >>Cc: loa@pi.nu; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org >>Subject: Re:Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map >> >>Hi Shahram, >> >>Just one comment. >> >>>I would also argue that LSPs can't have UP-MEPs, since PWs from many ingress ports can enter an LSP and therefore the LSP can't start on the ingress interface. >> >>I think this depends on implementations. >>Any RFC don't restrict to DOWN-MEPs in an LSP. >> >>Anyway, MEP mechanism is out of scope in this draft as you said. >> >>Thanks, >>Hideki Endo >> >>>Hi, >>> >>>Although I mentioned I am Ok with the draft to be advanced to RFC, but after reviewing it in more details it appears that the draft, in spite of its name, does talk about UP-MEP at all and only talks about UP-MIP, while the figures show UP-MEPs for LSPs. Even if the scope of the draft is UP-MIP, considering that there can't be a MIP without a MEP, the draft should have some wording regarding UP-MEPs and their applicability to LSPs and PWs. I would also argue that LSPs can't have UP-MEPs, since PWs from many ingress ports can enter an LSP and therefore the LSP can't start on the ingress interface. >>> >>>A quick fix at this point is to mention UP-MEP is out of scope and change the figures to only show Down-MEPs. A better fix is to elaborate on UP-MEP and its applicability and placement, etc. >>> >>>Regards, >>>Shahram >>> >>> >>> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of >>>Shahram Davari >>>Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2013 11:30 AM >>>To: Loa Andersson; mpls@ietf.org >>>Cc: >; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; >>>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org >>>Subject: Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call on >>>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map >>> >>>My Comments are addressed and I support this draft to be published as Informational RFC. >>> >>>Thx >>>Shahram >>> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of >>>Loa Andersson >>>Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 3:02 AM >>>To: mpls@ietf.org >>>Cc: >; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; >>>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org >>>Subject: [mpls] 2nd working group last call on >>>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map >>> >>>Working Group, >>> >>>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05.txt has been updated after a previous >>>last call, due to the nature a and extent of the updates we have chosen >>>to start a 2nd wg last call. >>> >>>The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: >>>https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map >>> >>>There's also a htmlized version available at: >>>http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05 >>> >>>A diff from the previous version is available at: >>>http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05 >>> >>>Please send your comments, including approval of the documents and the >>>updates to the mpls working group list (mpls@ietf.org) >>> >>>This working group last call ends March 13, 2013. >>> >>>/Loa >>>for the MPLS working group co-chairs >>>-- >>> >>> >>>Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com >>>Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu >>>Huawei Technologies (consult) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 >>>_______________________________________________ >>>mpls mailing list >>>mpls@ietf.org >>>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls >>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>mpls mailing list >>>mpls@ietf.org >>>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls >>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>mpls mailing list >>>mpls@ietf.org >>>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls >>> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>mpls mailing list >>mpls@ietf.org >>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls >> >> > > > From davari@broadcom.com Wed Mar 13 15:57:34 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E871521F8570 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 15:57:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xFTvwiLGZkby for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 15:57:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mms2.broadcom.com (mms2.broadcom.com [216.31.210.18]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC94921F84EF for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 15:57:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.16.192.224] by mms2.broadcom.com with ESMTP (Broadcom SMTP Relay (Email Firewall v6.5)); Wed, 13 Mar 2013 15:53:15 -0700 X-Server-Uuid: 4500596E-606A-40F9-852D-14843D8201B2 Received: from SJEXCHCAS03.corp.ad.broadcom.com (10.16.203.9) by SJEXCHHUB01.corp.ad.broadcom.com (10.16.192.224) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.2.247.2; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 15:57:26 -0700 Received: from SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com ( [fe80::bc15:c1e1:c29a:36f7]) by SJEXCHCAS03.corp.ad.broadcom.com ( [::1]) with mapi id 14.01.0438.000; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 15:57:25 -0700 From: "Shahram Davari" To: "hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com" Thread-Topic: Re:RE: Re:RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2ndworking grouplast Thread-Index: AQHOIDyva+F+WxtKU02e1GYIicPsdJikOojw Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 22:57:25 +0000 Message-ID: <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9BE7E@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> References: <512C960E.70109@pi.nu> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD962A2@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broa> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9AAF4@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broa> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9AB6D@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broa> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF11206FBD5@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9BA48@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broa> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9BDE1@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broa> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.16.203.100] MIME-Version: 1.0 X-WSS-ID: 7D5FDCD13C01423342-01-01 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , "mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: 2ndworking grouplast X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 22:57:35 -0000 Hideki, The question is if the span of PWs and the LSP are the same (they start and= end on same interface), then what is the point of monitoring the LSP? You = can just monitor the PW.=20 And I completely disagree that just because something is possible it has to= be standardized. We need simple methods that are as generic as possible in= standards. LSP UPMEP in my opinion adds a lot of complexity for not much a= pparent gain.=20 Thx Shahram=20 -----Original Message----- From: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com [mailto:hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com]=20 Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 3:47 PM To: Shahram Davari Cc: gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org;= draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org Subject: Re:RE: Re:RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2ndworking= grouplast Sharam, Yes niche, but possible. If there are any possibilities, we MUST NOT preclude the possibilities in an international standard. Thanks, Hideki Endo >Hideki, > >Correct, but such LSP that can only accept packets from a single interface= is very niche application and not generic enough to define an UPMEP for it= . We need a definition that is applicable to LSPs in general. > >Thx >SD > >-----Original Message----- >From: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com [mailto:hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com]=20 >Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 3:31 PM >To: Shahram Davari >Cc: gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org= ; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org >Subject: Re:RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working grou= plast call o > >Sharam, > >Very simple question. > >>Assume there are 2 ingress interfaces A & B. Each interface maps Ethernet= traffic >>to its own PW (PW-A and PW-B). Now assume both these PWs go inside the sa= me LSP that exists Interface C.=20 >Why is this assumption mandatory? > >"Assume there are 1 ingress interfaces A. Two VLAN flows in the interface = A are mapped > to different PWs (PW-A and PW-B). Now assume both these PWs go inside the= same LSP." >In this case, UP-MEP of the LSP can be at interface A, right? > >Thanks, >Hideki Endo > > >>Greg, >> >>RFC6371 is very high level and does not define whether UP MEP applies to = LSP or PW. Assume there are 2 ingress interfaces A & B. Each interface map= s Ethernet traffic to its own PW (PW-A and PW-B). Now assume both these PWs= go inside the same LSP that exists Interface C. Now please explain if we w= ere to have an UP-MEP for LSP then on which interface would that LSP UP-MEP= reside? Interface A? B? C? >> >>This simple example shows you can't have an LSP UP-MEP. >> >>Thx >>SD >> >>From: Gregory Mirsky [mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com] >>Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:56 AM >>To: Shahram Davari; hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com >>Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep= -map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org >>Subject: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working group last= call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) >> >>Dear All, >>What would be the most appropriate subject to continue this discussion? I= 'll give it a try, please feel free to change it. >> >>I think that there's nothing that can preclude from supporting UP MEP on = MPLS-TP LSP, according to UP MEP definition of RFC 6371, even when multpipl= e PWs mapped to that LSP. Same, I think, is the true for p2mp PW. Note tha= t service, VPWS, is not part of MPLS-TP architecture. >> >> Regards, >> Greg >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bo= unces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Shahram Davari >>Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:30 AM >>To: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com >>Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.or= g; mpls-ads@tools.iet= f.org >>Subject: Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-= mep-map >> >>Hideki, >> >>So far no RFC or draft has talked about Down or UP MEP for LSPs. But if y= ou think about it logically LSPs can't have UP-MEP because LSP can carry ma= ny PWs and each PW may enter the LSP from a different port/interface. PWs = can have UP-MEP but only for P2P services (VPWS), otherwise they can't have= UP-MEP either (same as LSP). >> >>My suggestion is to correct figures and change UP-MEPs to Down-MEPs for L= SPs. Also to mention UP-MEP is out of scope. >> >>Thx >>SD >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com [mail= to:hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com] >>Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:20 AM >>To: Shahram Davari >>Cc: loa@pi.nu; mpls@ietf.org; mpl= s-ads@tools.ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.iet= f.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@to= ols.ietf.org >>Subject: Re:Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-m= ip-mep-map >> >>Hi Shahram, >> >>Just one comment. >> >>>I would also argue that LSPs can't have UP-MEPs, since PWs from many ing= ress ports can enter an LSP and therefore the LSP can't start on the ingre= ss interface. >> >>I think this depends on implementations. >>Any RFC don't restrict to DOWN-MEPs in an LSP. >> >>Anyway, MEP mechanism is out of scope in this draft as you said. >> >>Thanks, >>Hideki Endo >> >>>Hi, >>> >>>Although I mentioned I am Ok with the draft to be advanced to RFC, but a= fter reviewing it in more details it appears that the draft, in spite of it= s name, does talk about UP-MEP at all and only talks about UP-MIP, while th= e figures show UP-MEPs for LSPs. Even if the scope of the draft is UP-MIP,= considering that there can't be a MIP without a MEP, the draft should hav= e some wording regarding UP-MEPs and their applicability to LSPs and PWs. I= would also argue that LSPs can't have UP-MEPs, since PWs from many ingress= ports can enter an LSP and therefore the LSP can't start on the ingress i= nterface. >>> >>>A quick fix at this point is to mention UP-MEP is out of scope and chang= e the figures to only show Down-MEPs. A better fix is to elaborate on UP-ME= P and its applicability and placement, etc. >>> >>>Regards, >>>Shahram >>> >>> >>> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-b= ounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of >>>Shahram Davari >>>Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2013 11:30 AM >>>To: Loa Andersson; mpls@ietf.org >>>Cc: >; mpls-chai= rs@tools.ietf.org; >>>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org >>>Subject: Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call on >>>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map >>> >>>My Comments are addressed and I support this draft to be published as In= formational RFC. >>> >>>Thx >>>Shahram >>> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-b= ounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of >>>Loa Andersson >>>Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 3:02 AM >>>To: mpls@ietf.org >>>Cc: >; mpls-chai= rs@tools.ietf.org; >>>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org >>>Subject: [mpls] 2nd working group last call on >>>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map >>> >>>Working Group, >>> >>>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05.txt has been updated after a previous >>>last call, due to the nature a and extent of the updates we have chosen >>>to start a 2nd wg last call. >>> >>>The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: >>>https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map >>> >>>There's also a htmlized version available at: >>>http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05 >>> >>>A diff from the previous version is available at: >>>http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05 >>> >>>Please send your comments, including approval of the documents and the >>>updates to the mpls working group list (mpls@ietf.org) >>> >>>This working group last call ends March 13, 2013. >>> >>>/Loa >>>for the MPLS working group co-chairs >>>-- >>> >>> >>>Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com >>>Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu >>>Huawei Technologies (consult) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 >>>_______________________________________________ >>>mpls mailing list >>>mpls@ietf.org >>>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls >>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>mpls mailing list >>>mpls@ietf.org >>>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls >>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>mpls mailing list >>>mpls@ietf.org >>>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls >>> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>mpls mailing list >>mpls@ietf.org >>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls >> >> > > > From davari@broadcom.com Wed Mar 13 16:01:55 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2AC0311E80F3 for ; 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Wed, 13 Mar 2013 16:01:09 -0700 From: "Shahram Davari" To: "Gregory Mirsky" Thread-Topic: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working group last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) Thread-Index: AQHOH1NdwRf/Tf9hZk+Xrs65EizX8Jij+Y8wgACCswD//4v/kIAAet+A//+fhICAAIPFAP//jxSgAA72o4AADfCGIA== Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 23:01:09 +0000 Message-ID: <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9BEB7@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> References: <512C960E.70109@pi.nu> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD962A2@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broa> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9AAF4@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broa> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9AB6D@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF11206FBD5@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9BA48@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF112070391@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9BB39@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com>, <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1120703DD@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <0D4312C0-ED50-4839-B1B0-9D4BF696F88E@broadcom.com> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1120704C4@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9BD97@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF112070535@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> In-Reply-To: <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF112070535@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.16.203.100] MIME-Version: 1.0 X-WSS-ID: 7D5FDC3F3YC1384524-01-01 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=_000_4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9BEB7SJEXCHMB12corpa_ Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , "mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: 2nd working group last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 23:01:55 -0000 --_000_4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9BEB7SJEXCHMB12corpa_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Greg, You keep mentioning implementation. I am not arguing or discussing any impl= ementation. I don't even care about implementation, but we should not ignor= e the fact that routers are implemented via Line-cards and switch fabrics. Thx Shahram From: Gregory Mirsky [mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 3:37 PM To: Shahram Davari Cc: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; = draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org Subject: RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working group la= st call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) Hi Shahram, I think that we came to state of declaring personal preferences and discuss= ing specifics of various implementations. Best regards, Greg ________________________________ From: Shahram Davari [mailto:davari@broadcom.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 3:31 PM To: Gregory Mirsky Cc: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com; mpls@iet= f.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org Subject: RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working group la= st call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) Hi Greg, Correct, but we can't define a MEP that can only support a subset of OAM sp= ecially the less desirable ones. Besides Synthetic loss is not accurate and= as far as I know, not many users are interested in Synthetic loss. Thx SD From: Gregory Mirsky [mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 3:13 PM To: Shahram Davari Cc: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com; mpls@iet= f.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org Subject: RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working group la= st call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) Hi Shahram, as indicated before, Synthetic LM is viable option and will work just fine = from UP MEP. Would you agree? Regards, Greg ________________________________ From: Shahram Davari [mailto:davari@broadcom.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 2:21 PM To: Gregory Mirsky Cc: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com; mpls@iet= f.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org Subject: Re: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working group la= st call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) Greg, First of all MPLS-TP LM can use direct Loss measurement of RFC6374. Secondly I am not asking on what is your implementation. I am asking logica= lly how do you do LM for LSP UPMEP. You have to let the data packets go thr= ough forwarding and queuing and be actually delivered to the egress interfa= ce before you can increment receive LM counter. Just examining the forwardi= ng result is not enough since for example the link between egress line card= and the fabric can be broken or have errors. Regards, Shahram On Mar 13, 2013, at 1:06 PM, "Gregory Mirsky" > wrote: Hi Shahram, I believe that MPLS-TP LM is what is called Synthetic Loss Measurement and = does not require reporting in-profile counters. If my understanding is corr= ect, then I don't see how location of UP MEP in relation to PW A and PW B i= s important. Besides, could you refer me to definition of in-profile and ou= t-ot-profile in regard to MPLS-TP. Much obliged. As for your challenge I do have solution but, I believe, it is HW specific.= Sorry if you can not do that. Regards, Greg ________________________________ From: Shahram Davari [mailto:davari@broadcom.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 12:55 PM To: Gregory Mirsky; hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org<= mailto:draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org>; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.= org Subject: RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working group la= st call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) Greg, We have a fundamental difference of opinion. I have been involved in the O= AM for over a decade now and one of the fundamental architectural requireme= nts is that OAM packets MUST follow the data packets in the network and ins= ide a switch/router up to the observation point (MEP). So it is not accepta= ble for data packets to be on Interface A and for MEP to be on Interface B. In the example I gave, can you please tell me how you can do Loss Measureme= nt for the LSP with UP-MEP? How do you increment the LSP UP-MEP receive LM = counters for packets received from PW-A and PW-B? and where is the LSP-UP-M= EP located? Thx Shahram From: Gregory Mirsky [mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 12:42 PM To: Shahram Davari; hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org<= mailto:draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org>; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.= org Subject: RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working group la= st call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) Hi Shahram, UP MEP, whether as defined by RFC 6371 or as defined elsewhere, e.g. IEEE 8= 02.1ag, is not required to be co-located with an ingress to monitored servi= ce, e.g. attachement circuit, but with logical interface that represents mo= nitored service. Location of UP MEP is undefined as long as it complies wit= h where is sends to and receives from OAM packets/frames. In case of MPLS t= his element if MPLS forwarding function, in case of Ethernet - Bridge Relay= Entity. For MPLS, as long as OAM packets sent to forwarding and get proper= encapsulation, IMHO, we have ourselves an UP MEP. How packet being bounced= within a node to get such treatment, I think, is implementation specific. Regards, Greg ________________________________ From: Shahram Davari [mailto:davari@broadcom.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 11:59 AM To: Gregory Mirsky; hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org<= mailto:draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org>; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.= org Subject: RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working group la= st call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) Greg, RFC6371 is very high level and does not define whether UP MEP applies to LS= P or PW. Assume there are 2 ingress interfaces A & B. Each interface maps = Ethernet traffic to its own PW (PW-A and PW-B). Now assume both these PWs g= o inside the same LSP that exists Interface C. Now please explain if we wer= e to have an UP-MEP for LSP then on which interface would that LSP UP-MEP r= eside? Interface A? B? C? This simple example shows you can't have an LSP UP-MEP. Thx SD From: Gregory Mirsky [mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:56 AM To: Shahram Davari; hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org<= mailto:draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org>; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.= org Subject: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working group last c= all ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) Dear All, What would be the most appropriate subject to continue this discussion? I'l= l give it a try, please feel free to change it. I think that there's nothing that can preclude from supporting UP MEP on MP= LS-TP LSP, according to UP MEP definition of RFC 6371, even when multpiple = PWs mapped to that LSP. Same, I think, is the true for p2mp PW. Note that = service, VPWS, is not part of MPLS-TP architecture. Regards, Greg -----Original Message----- From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-boun= ces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Shahram Davari Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:30 AM To: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org<= mailto:draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org>; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.= org Subject: Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-me= p-map Hideki, So far no RFC or draft has talked about Down or UP MEP for LSPs. But if you= think about it logically LSPs can't have UP-MEP because LSP can carry many= PWs and each PW may enter the LSP from a different port/interface. PWs ca= n have UP-MEP but only for P2P services (VPWS), otherwise they can't have U= P-MEP either (same as LSP). My suggestion is to correct figures and change UP-MEPs to Down-MEPs for LSP= s. Also to mention UP-MEP is out of scope. Thx SD -----Original Message----- From: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com [mailto= :hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:20 AM To: Shahram Davari Cc: loa@pi.nu; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-= ads@tools.ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.= org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tool= s.ietf.org Subject: Re:Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip= -mep-map Hi Shahram, Just one comment. >I would also argue that LSPs can't have UP-MEPs, since PWs from many ingre= ss ports can enter an LSP and therefore the LSP can't start on the ingress= interface. I think this depends on implementations. Any RFC don't restrict to DOWN-MEPs in an LSP. Anyway, MEP mechanism is out of scope in this draft as you said. Thanks, Hideki Endo >Hi, > >Although I mentioned I am Ok with the draft to be advanced to RFC, but aft= er reviewing it in more details it appears that the draft, in spite of its = name, does talk about UP-MEP at all and only talks about UP-MIP, while the = figures show UP-MEPs for LSPs. Even if the scope of the draft is UP-MIP, c= onsidering that there can't be a MIP without a MEP, the draft should have = some wording regarding UP-MEPs and their applicability to LSPs and PWs. I w= ould also argue that LSPs can't have UP-MEPs, since PWs from many ingress p= orts can enter an LSP and therefore the LSP can't start on the ingress int= erface. > >A quick fix at this point is to mention UP-MEP is out of scope and change = the figures to only show Down-MEPs. A better fix is to elaborate on UP-MEP = and its applicability and placement, etc. > >Regards, >Shahram > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bou= nces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of >Shahram Davari >Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2013 11:30 AM >To: Loa Andersson; mpls@ietf.org >Cc: >; mpls-chairs= @tools.ietf.org; >draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org >Subject: Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call on >draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map > >My Comments are addressed and I support this draft to be published as Info= rmational RFC. > >Thx >Shahram > >-----Original Message----- >From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bou= nces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of >Loa Andersson >Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 3:02 AM >To: mpls@ietf.org >Cc: >; mpls-chairs= @tools.ietf.org; >draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org >Subject: [mpls] 2nd working group last call on >draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map > >Working Group, > >draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05.txt has been updated after a previous >last call, due to the nature a and extent of the updates we have chosen >to start a 2nd wg last call. > >The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: >https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map > >There's also a htmlized version available at: >http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05 > >A diff from the previous version is available at: >http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05 > >Please send your comments, including approval of the documents and the >updates to the mpls working group list (mpls@ietf.org) > >This working group last call ends March 13, 2013. > >/Loa >for the MPLS working group co-chairs >-- > > >Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com >Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu >Huawei Technologies (consult) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 >_______________________________________________ >mpls mailing list >mpls@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > > >_______________________________________________ >mpls mailing list >mpls@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > > >_______________________________________________ >mpls mailing list >mpls@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > _______________________________________________ mpls mailing list mpls@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls --_000_4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9BEB7SJEXCHMB12corpa_ Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Greg,

 <= /p>

You keep mentioning imple= mentation. I am not arguing or discussing any implementation. I don’t= even care about implementation, but we should not ignore the fact that routers are implemented via Line-cards and switch fabrics.  = ;

 <= /p>

Thx
Shahram

 <= /p>

 <= /p>

From: Gregory = Mirsky [mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 3:37 PM
To: Shahram Davari
Cc: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.iet= f.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.o= rg
Subject: RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working g= roup last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map)

 

Hi Shahram,<= /p>

I think that we came to state = of declaring personal preferences and discussing specifics of various imple= mentations.

 

    Best regards,

        Greg

 

From:<= /span> Shahram Davari [mailto:davari@broadcom.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 3:31 PM
To: Gregory Mirsky
Cc: hideki.endo.es@hit= achi.com; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org
Subject: RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working g= roup last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map)

Hi Greg,

 <= /p>

Correct, but we can’= ;t define a MEP that can only support a subset of OAM specially the less de= sirable ones. Besides Synthetic loss is not accurate and as far as I know, not many users are interested in Synthetic loss.

 <= /p>

Thx

SD

 <= /p>

From: Gregory = Mirsky [mailto:gregory.mirsk= y@ericsson.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 3:13 PM
To: Shahram Davari
Cc: hideki.endo.es@hit= achi.com; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org
Subject: RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working g= roup last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map)

 

Hi Shahram,<= /p>

as indicated before, Synthetic= LM is viable option and will work just fine from UP MEP. Would you agree?<= /span>

 

    Regards,

        Greg

 

From:<= /span> Shahram Davari [mailto:davari@broadcom.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 2:21 PM
To: Gregory Mirsky
Cc: hideki.endo.es@hit= achi.com; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org
Subject: Re: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working g= roup last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map)

Greg,

 

First of all MPLS-TP LM can use direct Loss measurem= ent of RFC6374.

 

Secondly I am not asking on what is your implementat= ion. I am asking logically how do you do LM for LSP UPMEP. You have to let = the data packets go through forwarding and queuing and be actually delivere= d to the egress interface before you can increment receive LM counter. Just examining the forwarding result is = not enough since for example the link between egress line card and the fabr= ic can be broken or have errors. 

 



Regards,

Shahram

 


On Mar 13, 2013, at 1:06 PM, "Gregory Mirsky" <gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com> wrote:<= o:p>

Hi Shahram,<= /p>

I believe that MPLS-TP LM is w= hat is called Synthetic Loss Measurement and does not require reporting in-= profile counters. If my understanding is correct, then I don't see how location of UP MEP in relation to PW A and PW B is important= . Besides, could you refer me to definition of in-profile and out-ot-profil= e in regard to MPLS-TP. Much obliged.

As for your challenge I do hav= e solution but, I believe, it is HW specific. Sorry if you can not do that.=

 

    Regards,

        Greg

 

From:<= /span> Shahram Davari [mailto:davari@broadcom.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 12:55 PM
To: Gregory Mirsky; hi= deki.endo.es@hitachi.com
Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org
Subject: RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working g= roup last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map)

Greg,

We have a fundamental dif= ference of opinion.  I have been involved in the OAM for over a decade= now and one of the fundamental architectural requirements is that OAM packets MUST follow the data packets in the network and inside a = switch/router up to the observation point (MEP). So it is not acceptable fo= r data packets to be on Interface A and for MEP to be on Interface B.

In the example I gave, ca= n you please tell me how you can do Loss Measurement for the LSP with UP-ME= P? How do you increment the LSP UP-MEP receive LM counters for packets received from PW-A and PW-B? and where is the LSP-UP-MEP locat= ed?

Thx
Shahram

From: Gregory = Mirsky [mailto:gregory.mirsk= y@ericsson.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 12:42 PM
To: Shahram Davari; hi= deki.endo.es@hitachi.com
Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org
Subject: RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working g= roup last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map)

Hi Shahram,<= /p>

UP MEP, whether as defined by = RFC 6371 or as defined elsewhere, e.g. IEEE 802.1ag, is not required to be = co-located with an ingress to monitored service, e.g. attachement circuit, but with logical interface that represents monitored service. Loc= ation of UP MEP is undefined as long as it complies with where is sends to = and receives from OAM packets/frames. In case of MPLS this element if MPLS = forwarding function, in case of Ethernet - Bridge Relay Entity. For MPLS, as long as OAM packets sent to f= orwarding and get proper encapsulation, IMHO, we have ourselves an UP MEP. = How packet being bounced within a node to get such treatment, I think, is i= mplementation specific.

    Regards,

        Greg

From:<= /span> Shahram Davari [mailto:davari@broadcom.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 11:59 AM
To: Gregory Mirsky; hi= deki.endo.es@hitachi.com
Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org
Subject: RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working g= roup last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map)

Greg,

RFC6371 is very high leve= l and does not define whether UP MEP applies to LSP or PW.  Assume the= re are 2 ingress interfaces A & B. Each interface maps Ethernet traffic to its own PW (PW-A and PW-B). Now assume both these PWs go inside= the same LSP that exists Interface C. Now please explain if we were to hav= e an UP-MEP for LSP then on which interface would that LSP UP-MEP reside? I= nterface A? B? C?

This simple example shows= you can’t have an LSP UP-MEP.

Thx
SD

From: Gregory = Mirsky [mailto:gregory.mirsk= y@ericsson.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:56 AM
To: Shahram Davari; hi= deki.endo.es@hitachi.com
Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org
Subject: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working group= last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map)

Dear All,

What would be the most appropriate subjec= t to continue this discussion? I'll give it a try, please feel free to chan= ge it.

I think that there's nothing that can pre= clude from supporting UP MEP on MPLS-TP LSP, according to UP MEP definition= of RFC 6371, even when multpiple PWs mapped to that LSP. Same, I think, is the true for  p2mp PW. Note that service, VPWS, is = not part of MPLS-TP architecture.

       = ; Regards,

       = ;         Greg

-----Original Message-----

From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Beha= lf Of Shahram Davari

Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:30 AM

Subject: Re: [mpls] 2nd working group las= t call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map

Hideki,

So far no RFC or draft has talked about D= own or UP MEP for LSPs. But if you think about it logically LSPs can't have= UP-MEP because LSP can carry many PWs and each PW may enter the LSP from a different port/interface.  PWs can have UP-MEP but onl= y for P2P services (VPWS), otherwise they can't have UP-MEP either (same as= LSP).

My suggestion is to correct figures and c= hange UP-MEPs to Down-MEPs for LSPs. Also to mention UP-MEP is out of scope= .

Thx

SD

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:20 AM

To: Shahram Davari

Subject: Re:Re: [mpls] 2nd working group = last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map

Hi Shahram,

Just one comment.

>I would also argue that LSPs can't ha= ve UP-MEPs, since PWs from many ingress ports can enter an LSP  and th= erefore the LSP can't start on the ingress interface.

I think this depends on implementations.<= /span>

Any RFC don't restrict to DOWN-MEPs in an= LSP.

Anyway, MEP mechanism is out of scope in = this draft as you said.

Thanks,

Hideki Endo

>Hi,

> 

>Although I mentioned I am Ok with the= draft to be advanced to RFC, but after reviewing it in more details it app= ears that the draft, in spite of its name, does talk about UP-MEP at all and only talks about UP-MIP, while the figures show UP-MEPs = for LSPs.  Even if the scope of the draft is UP-MIP, considering that = there can't be a MIP without a MEP,  the draft should have some wordin= g regarding UP-MEPs and their applicability to LSPs and PWs. I would also argue that LSPs can't have UP-MEPs, since PW= s from many ingress ports can enter an LSP  and therefore the LSP can'= t start on the ingress interface.

> 

>A quick fix at this point is to menti= on UP-MEP is out of scope and change the figures to only show Down-MEPs. A = better fix is to elaborate on UP-MEP and its applicability and placement, etc.

> 

>Regards,

>Shahram

> 

>

> 

>-----Original Message-----

>Shahram Davari

>Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2013 11:30= AM

>To: Loa Andersson; mpls@ietf.org

>Subject: Re: [mpls] 2nd working group= last call on

>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map=

> 

>My Comments are addressed and I suppo= rt this draft to be published as Informational  RFC.=

> 

>Thx

>Shahram

> 

>-----Original Message-----

>Loa Andersson

>Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 3:02= AM

>Subject: [mpls] 2nd working group las= t call on

>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map=

> 

>Working Group,

> 

>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05.txt= has been updated after a previous

>last call, due to the nature a and ex= tent of the updates we have chosen

>to start a 2nd wg last call.

> 

>The IETF datatracker status page for = this draft is:

> 

>There's also a htmlized version avail= able at:

> 

>A diff from the previous version is a= vailable at:

> 

>Please send your comments, including = approval of the documents and the

>updates to the mpls working group lis= t (mpls@ietf.org)

> 

>This working group last call ends Mar= ch 13, 2013.

> 

>/Loa

>for the MPLS working group co-chairs<= /span>

>--

> 

> 

>Loa Andersson    =             &nb= sp;       email: loa@mail01.huawei.com

>Senior MPLS Expert   &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;          loa@pi.nu

>Huawei Technologies (consult) &n= bsp;      phone: +46 739 81 21 64<= /o:p>

>_____________________________________= __________

>mpls mailing list

> 

> 

>_____________________________________= __________

>mpls mailing list

> 

> 

>_____________________________________= __________

>mpls mailing list

> 

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--_000_4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9BEB7SJEXCHMB12corpa_-- From gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com Wed Mar 13 16:16:41 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0CE4721F874D for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 16:16:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MNy+k7Xot4Ci for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 16:16:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usevmg21.ericsson.net (usevmg21.ericsson.net [198.24.6.65]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F38E11E80D5 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 16:16:32 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c6180641-b7faf6d00000096b-06-514108c807fe Received: from EUSAAHC007.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [147.117.188.93]) by usevmg21.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id EB.78.02411.8C801415; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 00:16:25 +0100 (CET) Received: from EUSAAMB103.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.120]) by EUSAAHC007.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.93]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.004; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 19:16:24 -0400 From: Gregory Mirsky To: Shahram Davari Thread-Topic: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working group last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) Thread-Index: AQHOID7Gx61lCi7cekOnXY88VVk3A5ikP+XA Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 23:16:23 +0000 Message-ID: <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF11207059D@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> References: <512C960E.70109@pi.nu> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD962A2@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broa> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9AAF4@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broa> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9AB6D@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF11206FBD5@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9BA48@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF112070391@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9BB39@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com>, <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1120703DD@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <0D4312C0-ED50-4839-B1B0-9D4BF696F88E@broadcom.com> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1120704C4@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9BD97@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF112070535@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9BEB7@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> In-Reply-To: <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9BEB7@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [147.117.188.135] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF11207059Deusaamb103ericsso_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFmpjkeLIzCtJLcpLzFFi42KZXLonVvckh2Ogwdl1ohbrez0tmm+dZbe4 /uU9k8WSlx3sFt8vLWGxuLV0JasDm8es+2fZPFrPrGHxWLLkJ5PHl8uf2QJYorhsUlJzMstS i/TtErgylj46xF6w6jtzRc/uC2wNjIv3MHcxcnJICJhINNzZwgphi0lcuLeerYuRi0NI4Aij xK9PC1hAEkICyxkldiwpAbHZBIwkXmzsYQexRQQ0JA7eusIM0sAssJ1J4vblmUwgCWGBMonp z1axQhSVS3y/f5ERwjaSOPPpE9hmFgFViXvf28BsXgFvid1/drFAbH7ALtF1+A1YM6dAuMTc U4/BrmAEOu/7qTVgC5gFxCVuPZnPBHG2gMSSPeeh3hGVePn4H9Q7yhLf5zxigajPlzgzBWIO r4CgxMmZT1gmMIrOQjJqFpKyWUjKIOI6Egt2f2KDsLUlli18zQxjnznwmAlZfAEj+ypGjtLi 1LLcdCPDTYzAuDwmwea4g3HBJ8tDjNIcLErivKGuFwKEBNITS1KzU1MLUovii0pzUosPMTJx cEo1MPoFtJyJn/Io6Lyx6VeP1ihtqTnxq0SlDTsyHI5xxbssnqK9pkAgeo3z7lMKPbt2v16w OPpdl+SFbcm/lLmfO692afiQ3i/hw2G3qXOeYjXT9BlHmP56zZkn5R/azmm5KVg2wSOy46aR CFvULQlDvz/Z+pM/PzrqbK0z+YZWWuquG/218vlnlViKMxINtZiLihMBBe7n8JkCAAA= Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , "mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: 2nd working group last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 23:16:41 -0000 --_000_7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF11207059Deusaamb103ericsso_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Shahram, I don't see line cards and distinct switch fabric in what's called "pizza b= oxes", a.k.a. fixed configuration nodes. True, some implementations would not be able to support UP MEP but, IMHO, t= hat is not good enough reason not to define it and even less of good reason= not to support in capable implementations. Regards, Greg ________________________________ From: Shahram Davari [mailto:davari@broadcom.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 4:01 PM To: Gregory Mirsky Cc: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; = draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org Subject: RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working group la= st call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) Greg, You keep mentioning implementation. I am not arguing or discussing any impl= ementation. I don't even care about implementation, but we should not ignor= e the fact that routers are implemented via Line-cards and switch fabrics. Thx Shahram From: Gregory Mirsky [mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 3:37 PM To: Shahram Davari Cc: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; = draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org Subject: RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working group la= st call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) Hi Shahram, I think that we came to state of declaring personal preferences and discuss= ing specifics of various implementations. Best regards, Greg ________________________________ From: Shahram Davari [mailto:davari@broadcom.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 3:31 PM To: Gregory Mirsky Cc: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com; mpls@iet= f.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org Subject: RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working group la= st call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) Hi Greg, Correct, but we can't define a MEP that can only support a subset of OAM sp= ecially the less desirable ones. Besides Synthetic loss is not accurate and= as far as I know, not many users are interested in Synthetic loss. Thx SD From: Gregory Mirsky [mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 3:13 PM To: Shahram Davari Cc: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com; mpls@iet= f.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org Subject: RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working group la= st call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) Hi Shahram, as indicated before, Synthetic LM is viable option and will work just fine = from UP MEP. Would you agree? Regards, Greg ________________________________ From: Shahram Davari [mailto:davari@broadcom.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 2:21 PM To: Gregory Mirsky Cc: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com; mpls@iet= f.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org Subject: Re: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working group la= st call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) Greg, First of all MPLS-TP LM can use direct Loss measurement of RFC6374. Secondly I am not asking on what is your implementation. I am asking logica= lly how do you do LM for LSP UPMEP. You have to let the data packets go thr= ough forwarding and queuing and be actually delivered to the egress interfa= ce before you can increment receive LM counter. Just examining the forwardi= ng result is not enough since for example the link between egress line card= and the fabric can be broken or have errors. Regards, Shahram On Mar 13, 2013, at 1:06 PM, "Gregory Mirsky" > wrote: Hi Shahram, I believe that MPLS-TP LM is what is called Synthetic Loss Measurement and = does not require reporting in-profile counters. If my understanding is corr= ect, then I don't see how location of UP MEP in relation to PW A and PW B i= s important. Besides, could you refer me to definition of in-profile and ou= t-ot-profile in regard to MPLS-TP. Much obliged. As for your challenge I do have solution but, I believe, it is HW specific.= Sorry if you can not do that. Regards, Greg ________________________________ From: Shahram Davari [mailto:davari@broadcom.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 12:55 PM To: Gregory Mirsky; hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org<= mailto:draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org>; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.= org Subject: RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working group la= st call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) Greg, We have a fundamental difference of opinion. I have been involved in the O= AM for over a decade now and one of the fundamental architectural requireme= nts is that OAM packets MUST follow the data packets in the network and ins= ide a switch/router up to the observation point (MEP). So it is not accepta= ble for data packets to be on Interface A and for MEP to be on Interface B. In the example I gave, can you please tell me how you can do Loss Measureme= nt for the LSP with UP-MEP? How do you increment the LSP UP-MEP receive LM = counters for packets received from PW-A and PW-B? and where is the LSP-UP-M= EP located? Thx Shahram From: Gregory Mirsky [mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 12:42 PM To: Shahram Davari; hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org<= mailto:draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org>; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.= org Subject: RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working group la= st call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) Hi Shahram, UP MEP, whether as defined by RFC 6371 or as defined elsewhere, e.g. IEEE 8= 02.1ag, is not required to be co-located with an ingress to monitored servi= ce, e.g. attachement circuit, but with logical interface that represents mo= nitored service. Location of UP MEP is undefined as long as it complies wit= h where is sends to and receives from OAM packets/frames. In case of MPLS t= his element if MPLS forwarding function, in case of Ethernet - Bridge Relay= Entity. For MPLS, as long as OAM packets sent to forwarding and get proper= encapsulation, IMHO, we have ourselves an UP MEP. How packet being bounced= within a node to get such treatment, I think, is implementation specific. Regards, Greg ________________________________ From: Shahram Davari [mailto:davari@broadcom.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 11:59 AM To: Gregory Mirsky; hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org<= mailto:draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org>; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.= org Subject: RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working group la= st call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) Greg, RFC6371 is very high level and does not define whether UP MEP applies to LS= P or PW. Assume there are 2 ingress interfaces A & B. Each interface maps = Ethernet traffic to its own PW (PW-A and PW-B). Now assume both these PWs g= o inside the same LSP that exists Interface C. Now please explain if we wer= e to have an UP-MEP for LSP then on which interface would that LSP UP-MEP r= eside? Interface A? B? C? This simple example shows you can't have an LSP UP-MEP. Thx SD From: Gregory Mirsky [mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:56 AM To: Shahram Davari; hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org<= mailto:draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org>; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.= org Subject: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working group last c= all ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) Dear All, What would be the most appropriate subject to continue this discussion? I'l= l give it a try, please feel free to change it. I think that there's nothing that can preclude from supporting UP MEP on MP= LS-TP LSP, according to UP MEP definition of RFC 6371, even when multpiple = PWs mapped to that LSP. Same, I think, is the true for p2mp PW. Note that = service, VPWS, is not part of MPLS-TP architecture. Regards, Greg -----Original Message----- From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-boun= ces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Shahram Davari Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:30 AM To: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org<= mailto:draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org>; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.= org Subject: Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-me= p-map Hideki, So far no RFC or draft has talked about Down or UP MEP for LSPs. But if you= think about it logically LSPs can't have UP-MEP because LSP can carry many= PWs and each PW may enter the LSP from a different port/interface. PWs ca= n have UP-MEP but only for P2P services (VPWS), otherwise they can't have U= P-MEP either (same as LSP). My suggestion is to correct figures and change UP-MEPs to Down-MEPs for LSP= s. Also to mention UP-MEP is out of scope. Thx SD -----Original Message----- From: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com [mailto= :hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:20 AM To: Shahram Davari Cc: loa@pi.nu; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-= ads@tools.ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.= org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tool= s.ietf.org Subject: Re:Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip= -mep-map Hi Shahram, Just one comment. >I would also argue that LSPs can't have UP-MEPs, since PWs from many ingre= ss ports can enter an LSP and therefore the LSP can't start on the ingress= interface. I think this depends on implementations. Any RFC don't restrict to DOWN-MEPs in an LSP. Anyway, MEP mechanism is out of scope in this draft as you said. Thanks, Hideki Endo >Hi, > >Although I mentioned I am Ok with the draft to be advanced to RFC, but aft= er reviewing it in more details it appears that the draft, in spite of its = name, does talk about UP-MEP at all and only talks about UP-MIP, while the = figures show UP-MEPs for LSPs. Even if the scope of the draft is UP-MIP, c= onsidering that there can't be a MIP without a MEP, the draft should have = some wording regarding UP-MEPs and their applicability to LSPs and PWs. I w= ould also argue that LSPs can't have UP-MEPs, since PWs from many ingress p= orts can enter an LSP and therefore the LSP can't start on the ingress int= erface. > >A quick fix at this point is to mention UP-MEP is out of scope and change = the figures to only show Down-MEPs. A better fix is to elaborate on UP-MEP = and its applicability and placement, etc. > >Regards, >Shahram > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bou= nces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of >Shahram Davari >Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2013 11:30 AM >To: Loa Andersson; mpls@ietf.org >Cc: >; mpls-chairs= @tools.ietf.org; >draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org >Subject: Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call on >draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map > >My Comments are addressed and I support this draft to be published as Info= rmational RFC. > >Thx >Shahram > >-----Original Message----- >From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bou= nces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of >Loa Andersson >Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 3:02 AM >To: mpls@ietf.org >Cc: >; mpls-chairs= @tools.ietf.org; >draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org >Subject: [mpls] 2nd working group last call on >draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map > >Working Group, > >draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05.txt has been updated after a previous >last call, due to the nature a and extent of the updates we have chosen >to start a 2nd wg last call. > >The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: >https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map > >There's also a htmlized version available at: >http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05 > >A diff from the previous version is available at: >http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05 > >Please send your comments, including approval of the documents and the >updates to the mpls working group list (mpls@ietf.org) > >This working group last call ends March 13, 2013. > >/Loa >for the MPLS working group co-chairs >-- > > >Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com >Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu >Huawei Technologies (consult) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 >_______________________________________________ >mpls mailing list >mpls@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > > >_______________________________________________ >mpls mailing list >mpls@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > > >_______________________________________________ >mpls mailing list >mpls@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > _______________________________________________ mpls mailing list mpls@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls --_000_7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF11207059Deusaamb103ericsso_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Shahram,
I don't see line cards and distin= ct switch fabric in what's called "pizza boxes", a.k.a. fixed con= figuration nodes.
 
True, some implementations would = not be able to support UP MEP but, IMHO, that is not good enough reason not= to define it and even less of good reason not to support in capable implementations.
 
 &n= bsp;  Regards,
 &n= bsp;      Greg

From: Shahram Davari [mailto:davari= @broadcom.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 4:01 PM
To: Gregory Mirsky
Cc: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.iet= f.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.o= rg
Subject: RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working g= roup last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map)

Greg,

 

You keep mentioning implementation. I am n= ot arguing or discussing any implementation. I don’t even care about = implementation, but we should not ignore the fact that routers are implemented via Line-cards and switch fabrics.  = ;

 

Thx
Shahram

 

 

From: Gregory Mirsky [mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson= .com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 3:37 PM
To: Shahram Davari
Cc: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.iet= f.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.o= rg
Subject: RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working g= roup last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map)

 

Hi Shahram,

I think that we came to state of declaring pers= onal preferences and discussing specifics of various implementations.

 

    Best regards,

        Greg

 

From: Shahram Davari [= mailto:davari@broadcom.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 3:31 PM
To: Gregory Mirsky
Cc: hideki.endo.es@hit= achi.com; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org
Subject: RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working g= roup last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map)

Hi Greg,

 

Correct, but we can’t define a MEP t= hat can only support a subset of OAM specially the less desirable ones. Bes= ides Synthetic loss is not accurate and as far as I know, not many users are interested in Synthetic loss.=

 

Thx

SD

 

From: Gregory Mirsky [mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 3:13 PM
To: Shahram Davari
Cc: hideki.endo.es@hit= achi.com; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org
Subject: RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working g= roup last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map)

 

Hi Shahram,

as indicated before, Synthetic LM is viable opt= ion and will work just fine from UP MEP. Would you agree?=

 

    Regards,

        Greg

 

From: Shahram Davari [= mailto:davari@broadcom.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 2:21 PM
To: Gregory Mirsky
Cc: hideki.endo.es@hit= achi.com; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org
Subject: Re: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working g= roup last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map)

Greg,

 

First of all MPLS-TP LM can use direct Loss measurem= ent of RFC6374.

 

Secondly I am not asking on what is your implementat= ion. I am asking logically how do you do LM for LSP UPMEP. You have to let = the data packets go through forwarding and queuing and be actually delivere= d to the egress interface before you can increment receive LM counter. Just examining the forwarding result is = not enough since for example the link between egress line card and the fabr= ic can be broken or have errors. 

 



Regards,

Shahram

 


On Mar 13, 2013, at 1:06 PM, "Gregory Mirsky" <gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com> wrote:<= o:p>

Hi Shahram,

I believe that MPLS-TP LM is what is called Syn= thetic Loss Measurement and does not require reporting in-profile counters.= If my understanding is correct, then I don't see how location of UP MEP in relation to PW A and PW B is importa= nt. Besides, could you refer me to definition of in-profile and out-ot-prof= ile in regard to MPLS-TP. Much obliged.

As for your challenge I do have solution but, I= believe, it is HW specific. Sorry if you can not do that.

 

    Regards,

        Greg

 

From: Shahram Davari [= mailto:davari@broadcom.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 12:55 PM
To: Gregory Mirsky; hi= deki.endo.es@hitachi.com
Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org
Subject: RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working g= roup last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map)

Greg,

We have a fundamental difference of opinio= n.  I have been involved in the OAM for over a decade now and one of t= he fundamental architectural requirements is that OAM packets MUST follow the data packets in the network and inside= a switch/router up to the observation point (MEP). So it is not acceptable= for data packets to be on Interface A and for MEP to be on Interface B.

In the example I gave, can you please tell= me how you can do Loss Measurement for the LSP with UP-MEP? How do you inc= rement the LSP UP-MEP receive LM counters for packets received from PW-A and PW-B? and where is the LSP-UP-MEP locat= ed?

Thx
Shahram

From: Gregory Mirsky [mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 12:42 PM
To: Shahram Davari; hi= deki.endo.es@hitachi.com
Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org
Subject: RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working g= roup last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map)

Hi Shahram,

UP MEP, whether as defined by RFC 6371 or as de= fined elsewhere, e.g. IEEE 802.1ag, is not required to be co-located with a= n ingress to monitored service, e.g. attachement circuit, but with logical interface that represents monitored = service. Location of UP MEP is undefined as long as it complies with where = is sends to and receives from OAM packets/frames. In case of MPLS this elem= ent if MPLS forwarding function, in case of Ethernet - Bridge Relay Entity. For MPLS, as long as OAM packet= s sent to forwarding and get proper encapsulation, IMHO, we have ourselves = an UP MEP. How packet being bounced within a node to get such treatment, I = think, is implementation specific.

    Regards,

        Greg

From: Shahram Davari [= mailto:davari@broadcom.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 11:59 AM
To: Gregory Mirsky; hi= deki.endo.es@hitachi.com
Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org
Subject: RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working g= roup last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map)

Greg,

RFC6371 is very high level and does not de= fine whether UP MEP applies to LSP or PW.  Assume there are 2 ingress = interfaces A & B. Each interface maps Ethernet traffic to its own PW (PW-A and PW-B). Now assume both these PWs go inside= the same LSP that exists Interface C. Now please explain if we were to hav= e an UP-MEP for LSP then on which interface would that LSP UP-MEP reside? I= nterface A? B? C?

This simple example shows you can’t = have an LSP UP-MEP.

Thx
SD

From: Gregory Mirsky [mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:56 AM
To: Shahram Davari; hi= deki.endo.es@hitachi.com
Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org
Subject: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working group= last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map)

Dear All,

What would be the most appropriate subject to continue this = discussion? I'll give it a try, please feel free to change it.

I think that there's nothing that can preclude from supporti= ng UP MEP on MPLS-TP LSP, according to UP MEP definition of RFC 6371, even = when multpiple PWs mapped to that LSP. Same, I think, is the true for  p2mp PW. Note that service, VPWS, is = not part of MPLS-TP architecture.

        Regards,

          =       Greg

-----Original Message-----

From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Beha= lf Of Shahram Davari

Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:30 AM

Subject: Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call ondraft-ietf= -mpls-tp-mip-mep-map

Hideki,

So far no RFC or draft has talked about Down or UP MEP for L= SPs. But if you think about it logically LSPs can't have UP-MEP because LSP= can carry many PWs and each PW may enter the LSP from a different port/interface.  PWs can have UP-MEP b= ut only for P2P services (VPWS), otherwise they can't have UP-MEP either (s= ame as LSP).

My suggestion is to correct figures and change UP-MEPs to Do= wn-MEPs for LSPs. Also to mention UP-MEP is out of scope.=

Thx

SD

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:20 AM

To: Shahram Davari

Subject: Re:Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call ondraft-i= etf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map

Hi Shahram,

Just one comment.

>I would also argue that LSPs can't have UP-MEPs, since P= Ws from many ingress ports can enter an LSP  and therefore the LSP can= 't start on the ingress interface.

I think this depends on implementations.

Any RFC don't restrict to DOWN-MEPs in an LSP.

Anyway, MEP mechanism is out of scope in this draft as you s= aid.

Thanks,

Hideki Endo

>Hi,

> 

>Although I mentioned I am Ok with the draft to be advanc= ed to RFC, but after reviewing it in more details it appears that the draft= , in spite of its name, does talk about UP-MEP at all and only talks about UP-MIP, while the figures show UP-MEPs = for LSPs.  Even if the scope of the draft is UP-MIP, considering that = there can't be a MIP without a MEP,  the draft should have some wordin= g regarding UP-MEPs and their applicability to LSPs and PWs. I would also argue that LSPs can't have UP-MEPs, since PW= s from many ingress ports can enter an LSP  and therefore the LSP can'= t start on the ingress interface.

> 

>A quick fix at this point is to mention UP-MEP is out of= scope and change the figures to only show Down-MEPs. A better fix is to el= aborate on UP-MEP and its applicability and placement, etc.

> 

>Regards,

>Shahram

> 

>

> 

>-----Original Message-----

>Shahram Davari

>Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2013 11:30 AM

>To: Loa Andersson; mpls@ietf.org

>Subject: Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call on

>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map

> 

>My Comments are addressed and I support this draft to be= published as Informational  RFC.

> 

>Thx

>Shahram

> 

>-----Original Message-----

>Loa Andersson

>Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 3:02 AM

>Subject: [mpls] 2nd working group last call on

>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map

> 

>Working Group,

> 

>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05.txt has been updated a= fter a previous

>last call, due to the nature a and extent of the updates= we have chosen

>to start a 2nd wg last call.

> 

>The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:

> 

>There's also a htmlized version available at:

> 

>A diff from the previous version is available at:=

> 

>Please send your comments, including approval of the doc= uments and the

>updates to the mpls working group list (mpls@ietf.org)

> 

>This working group last call ends March 13, 2013.=

> 

>/Loa

>for the MPLS working group co-chairs

>--

> 

> 

>Loa Andersson       &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;    email: loa@mail01.huawei.com

>Senior MPLS Expert      &n= bsp;            = ;       loa@pi.nu

>Huawei Technologies (consult)    &nb= sp;   phone: +46 739 81 21 64

>_______________________________________________

>mpls mailing list

> 

> 

>_______________________________________________

>mpls mailing list

> 

> 

>_______________________________________________

>mpls mailing list

> 

_______________________________________________<= /o:p>

mpls mailing list

--_000_7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF11207059Deusaamb103ericsso_-- From davari@broadcom.com Wed Mar 13 16:25:31 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C2B611E8142 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 16:25:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ckDW2WHZQEQk for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 16:25:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mms1.broadcom.com (mms1.broadcom.com [216.31.210.17]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E591B11E8148 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 16:25:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.16.192.224] by mms1.broadcom.com with ESMTP (Broadcom SMTP Relay (Email Firewall v6.5)); Wed, 13 Mar 2013 16:21:58 -0700 X-Server-Uuid: 06151B78-6688-425E-9DE2-57CB27892261 Received: from SJEXCHCAS06.corp.ad.broadcom.com (10.16.203.15) by SJEXCHHUB01.corp.ad.broadcom.com (10.16.192.224) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.2.247.2; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 16:24:42 -0700 Received: from SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com ( [fe80::bc15:c1e1:c29a:36f7]) by SJEXCHCAS06.corp.ad.broadcom.com ( [::1]) with mapi id 14.01.0438.000; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 16:24:42 -0700 From: "Shahram Davari" To: "Gregory Mirsky" Thread-Topic: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working group last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) Thread-Index: AQHOH1NdwRf/Tf9hZk+Xrs65EizX8Jij+Y8wgACCswD//4v/kIAAet+A//+fhICAAIPFAP//jxSgAA72o4AADfCGIP//m4mA//+M+cc= Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 23:24:41 +0000 Message-ID: <751954C6-6DCB-4DA3-A218-0848C305CC24@broadcom.com> References: <512C960E.70109@pi.nu> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD962A2@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broa> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9AAF4@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broa> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9AB6D@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF11206FBD5@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9BA48@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF112070391@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9BB39@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com>, <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1120703DD@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <0D4312C0-ED50-4839-B1B0-9D4BF696F88E@broadcom.com> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1120704C4@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9BD97@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF112070535@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9BEB7@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com>, <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF11207059D@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> In-Reply-To: <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF11207059D@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-WSS-ID: 7D5FD59C0BG1328125-01-01 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=_000_751954C66DCB4DA3A2180848C305CC24broadcomcom_ Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , "mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: 2nd working group last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 23:25:31 -0000 --_000_751954C66DCB4DA3A2180848C305CC24broadcomcom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable If IETF wants to define a MEP that only applies to pizza boxes, or only to = Synthetic LM then be my guest. But you have to state its applicability to = any draft that defines it. My recommendation is to not define such a restrictive entity. Regards, Shahram On Mar 13, 2013, at 4:16 PM, "Gregory Mirsky" > wrote: Hi Shahram, I don't see line cards and distinct switch fabric in what's called "pizza b= oxes", a.k.a. fixed configuration nodes. True, some implementations would not be able to support UP MEP but, IMHO, t= hat is not good enough reason not to define it and even less of good reason= not to support in capable implementations. Regards, Greg ________________________________ From: Shahram Davari [mailto:davari@broadcom.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 4:01 PM To: Gregory Mirsky Cc: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com; mpls@iet= f.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org Subject: RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working group la= st call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) Greg, You keep mentioning implementation. I am not arguing or discussing any impl= ementation. I don=92t even care about implementation, but we should not ign= ore the fact that routers are implemented via Line-cards and switch fabrics= . Thx Shahram From: Gregory Mirsky [mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 3:37 PM To: Shahram Davari Cc: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com; mpls@iet= f.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org Subject: RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working group la= st call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) Hi Shahram, I think that we came to state of declaring personal preferences and discuss= ing specifics of various implementations. Best regards, Greg ________________________________ From: Shahram Davari [mailto:davari@broadcom.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 3:31 PM To: Gregory Mirsky Cc: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com; mpls@iet= f.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org Subject: RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working group la= st call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) Hi Greg, Correct, but we can=92t define a MEP that can only support a subset of OAM = specially the less desirable ones. Besides Synthetic loss is not accurate a= nd as far as I know, not many users are interested in Synthetic loss. Thx SD From: Gregory Mirsky [mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 3:13 PM To: Shahram Davari Cc: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com; mpls@iet= f.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org Subject: RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working group la= st call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) Hi Shahram, as indicated before, Synthetic LM is viable option and will work just fine = from UP MEP. Would you agree? Regards, Greg ________________________________ From: Shahram Davari [mailto:davari@broadcom.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 2:21 PM To: Gregory Mirsky Cc: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com; mpls@iet= f.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org Subject: Re: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working group la= st call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) Greg, First of all MPLS-TP LM can use direct Loss measurement of RFC6374. Secondly I am not asking on what is your implementation. I am asking logica= lly how do you do LM for LSP UPMEP. You have to let the data packets go thr= ough forwarding and queuing and be actually delivered to the egress interfa= ce before you can increment receive LM counter. Just examining the forwardi= ng result is not enough since for example the link between egress line card= and the fabric can be broken or have errors. Regards, Shahram On Mar 13, 2013, at 1:06 PM, "Gregory Mirsky" > wrote: Hi Shahram, I believe that MPLS-TP LM is what is called Synthetic Loss Measurement and = does not require reporting in-profile counters. If my understanding is corr= ect, then I don't see how location of UP MEP in relation to PW A and PW B i= s important. Besides, could you refer me to definition of in-profile and ou= t-ot-profile in regard to MPLS-TP. Much obliged. As for your challenge I do have solution but, I believe, it is HW specific.= Sorry if you can not do that. Regards, Greg ________________________________ From: Shahram Davari [mailto:davari@broadcom.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 12:55 PM To: Gregory Mirsky; hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org<= mailto:draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org>; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.= org Subject: RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working group la= st call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) Greg, We have a fundamental difference of opinion. I have been involved in the O= AM for over a decade now and one of the fundamental architectural requireme= nts is that OAM packets MUST follow the data packets in the network and ins= ide a switch/router up to the observation point (MEP). So it is not accepta= ble for data packets to be on Interface A and for MEP to be on Interface B. In the example I gave, can you please tell me how you can do Loss Measureme= nt for the LSP with UP-MEP? How do you increment the LSP UP-MEP receive LM = counters for packets received from PW-A and PW-B? and where is the LSP-UP-M= EP located? Thx Shahram From: Gregory Mirsky [mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 12:42 PM To: Shahram Davari; hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org<= mailto:draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org>; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.= org Subject: RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working group la= st call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) Hi Shahram, UP MEP, whether as defined by RFC 6371 or as defined elsewhere, e.g. IEEE 8= 02.1ag, is not required to be co-located with an ingress to monitored servi= ce, e.g. attachement circuit, but with logical interface that represents mo= nitored service. Location of UP MEP is undefined as long as it complies wit= h where is sends to and receives from OAM packets/frames. In case of MPLS t= his element if MPLS forwarding function, in case of Ethernet - Bridge Relay= Entity. For MPLS, as long as OAM packets sent to forwarding and get proper= encapsulation, IMHO, we have ourselves an UP MEP. How packet being bounced= within a node to get such treatment, I think, is implementation specific. Regards, Greg ________________________________ From: Shahram Davari [mailto:davari@broadcom.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 11:59 AM To: Gregory Mirsky; hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org<= mailto:draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org>; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.= org Subject: RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working group la= st call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) Greg, RFC6371 is very high level and does not define whether UP MEP applies to LS= P or PW. Assume there are 2 ingress interfaces A & B. Each interface maps = Ethernet traffic to its own PW (PW-A and PW-B). Now assume both these PWs g= o inside the same LSP that exists Interface C. Now please explain if we wer= e to have an UP-MEP for LSP then on which interface would that LSP UP-MEP r= eside? Interface A? B? C? This simple example shows you can=92t have an LSP UP-MEP. Thx SD From: Gregory Mirsky [mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:56 AM To: Shahram Davari; hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org<= mailto:draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org>; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.= org Subject: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working group last c= all ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) Dear All, What would be the most appropriate subject to continue this discussion? I'l= l give it a try, please feel free to change it. I think that there's nothing that can preclude from supporting UP MEP on MP= LS-TP LSP, according to UP MEP definition of RFC 6371, even when multpiple = PWs mapped to that LSP. Same, I think, is the true for p2mp PW. Note that = service, VPWS, is not part of MPLS-TP architecture. Regards, Greg -----Original Message----- From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-boun= ces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Shahram Davari Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:30 AM To: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org<= mailto:draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org>; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.= org Subject: Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-me= p-map Hideki, So far no RFC or draft has talked about Down or UP MEP for LSPs. But if you= think about it logically LSPs can't have UP-MEP because LSP can carry many= PWs and each PW may enter the LSP from a different port/interface. PWs ca= n have UP-MEP but only for P2P services (VPWS), otherwise they can't have U= P-MEP either (same as LSP). My suggestion is to correct figures and change UP-MEPs to Down-MEPs for LSP= s. Also to mention UP-MEP is out of scope. Thx SD -----Original Message----- From: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com [mailto= :hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:20 AM To: Shahram Davari Cc: loa@pi.nu; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-= ads@tools.ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.= org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tool= s.ietf.org Subject: Re:Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip= -mep-map Hi Shahram, Just one comment. >I would also argue that LSPs can't have UP-MEPs, since PWs from many ingre= ss ports can enter an LSP and therefore the LSP can't start on the ingress= interface. I think this depends on implementations. Any RFC don't restrict to DOWN-MEPs in an LSP. Anyway, MEP mechanism is out of scope in this draft as you said. Thanks, Hideki Endo >Hi, > >Although I mentioned I am Ok with the draft to be advanced to RFC, but aft= er reviewing it in more details it appears that the draft, in spite of its = name, does talk about UP-MEP at all and only talks about UP-MIP, while the = figures show UP-MEPs for LSPs. Even if the scope of the draft is UP-MIP, c= onsidering that there can't be a MIP without a MEP, the draft should have = some wording regarding UP-MEPs and their applicability to LSPs and PWs. I w= ould also argue that LSPs can't have UP-MEPs, since PWs from many ingress p= orts can enter an LSP and therefore the LSP can't start on the ingress int= erface. > >A quick fix at this point is to mention UP-MEP is out of scope and change = the figures to only show Down-MEPs. A better fix is to elaborate on UP-MEP = and its applicability and placement, etc. > >Regards, >Shahram > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bou= nces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of >Shahram Davari >Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2013 11:30 AM >To: Loa Andersson; mpls@ietf.org >Cc: >; mpls-chairs= @tools.ietf.org; >draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org >Subject: Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call on >draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map > >My Comments are addressed and I support this draft to be published as Info= rmational RFC. > >Thx >Shahram > >-----Original Message----- >From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bou= nces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of >Loa Andersson >Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 3:02 AM >To: mpls@ietf.org >Cc: >; mpls-chairs= @tools.ietf.org; >draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org >Subject: [mpls] 2nd working group last call on >draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map > >Working Group, > >draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05.txt has been updated after a previous >last call, due to the nature a and extent of the updates we have chosen >to start a 2nd wg last call. > >The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: >https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map > >There's also a htmlized version available at: >http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05 > >A diff from the previous version is available at: >http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05 > >Please send your comments, including approval of the documents and the >updates to the mpls working group list (mpls@ietf.org) > >This working group last call ends March 13, 2013. > >/Loa >for the MPLS working group co-chairs >-- > > >Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com >Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu >Huawei Technologies (consult) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 >_______________________________________________ >mpls mailing list >mpls@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > > >_______________________________________________ >mpls mailing list >mpls@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > > >_______________________________________________ >mpls mailing list >mpls@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > _______________________________________________ mpls mailing list mpls@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls --_000_751954C66DCB4DA3A2180848C305CC24broadcomcom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
If IETF wants to define a MEP that only applies to pizza boxes, or onl= y to Synthetic LM then be my guest.  But you have to state its applica= bility to any draft that defines it. 

My recommendation is to not define such a restrictive entity.


Regards,
Shahram


On Mar 13, 2013, at 4:16 PM, "Gregory Mirsky" <gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com> wrote:<= br>
Hi Shahram,
I don't see line cards and distin= ct switch fabric in what's called "pizza boxes", a.k.a. fixed con= figuration nodes.
 
True, some implementations would = not be able to support UP MEP but, IMHO, that is not good enough reason not= to define it and even less of good reason not to support in capable implementations.
 
 &n= bsp;  Regards,
 &n= bsp;      Greg

From: Shahram Davari [mailto:davari@broadcom.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 4:01 PM
To: Gregory Mirsky
Cc: hideki.endo.es@hit= achi.com; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org
Subject: RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working g= roup last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map)

Greg,

 

You keep mentioning implementation. I am n= ot arguing or discussing any implementation. I don=92t even care about impl= ementation, but we should not ignore the fact that routers are implemented via Line-cards and switch fabrics.  = ;

 

Thx
Shahram

 

 

From: Gregory Mirsky [mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 3:37 PM
To: Shahram Davari
Cc: hideki.endo.es@hit= achi.com; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org
Subject: RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working g= roup last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map)

 

Hi Shahram,

I think that we came to state of declaring pers= onal preferences and discussing specifics of various implementations.

 

    Best regards,

        Greg

 

From: Shahram Davari [= mailto:davari@broadcom.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 3:31 PM
To: Gregory Mirsky
Cc: hideki.endo.es@hit= achi.com; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org
Subject: RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working g= roup last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map)

Hi Greg,

 

Correct, but we can=92t define a MEP that = can only support a subset of OAM specially the less desirable ones. Besides= Synthetic loss is not accurate and as far as I know, not many users are interested in Synthetic loss.=

 

Thx

SD

 

From: Gregory Mirsky [mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 3:13 PM
To: Shahram Davari
Cc: hideki.endo.es@hit= achi.com; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org
Subject: RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working g= roup last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map)

 

Hi Shahram,

as indicated before, Synthetic LM is viable opt= ion and will work just fine from UP MEP. Would you agree?=

 

    Regards,

        Greg

 

From: Shahram Davari [= mailto:davari@broadcom.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 2:21 PM
To: Gregory Mirsky
Cc: hideki.endo.es@hit= achi.com; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org
Subject: Re: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working g= roup last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map)

Greg,

 

First of all MPLS-TP LM can use direct Loss measurem= ent of RFC6374.

 

Secondly I am not asking on what is your implementat= ion. I am asking logically how do you do LM for LSP UPMEP. You have to let = the data packets go through forwarding and queuing and be actually delivere= d to the egress interface before you can increment receive LM counter. Just examining the forwarding result is = not enough since for example the link between egress line card and the fabr= ic can be broken or have errors. 

 



Regards,

Shahram

 


On Mar 13, 2013, at 1:06 PM, "Gregory Mirsky" <gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com> wrote:<= o:p>

Hi Shahram,

I believe that MPLS-TP LM is what is called Syn= thetic Loss Measurement and does not require reporting in-profile counters.= If my understanding is correct, then I don't see how location of UP MEP in relation to PW A and PW B is importa= nt. Besides, could you refer me to definition of in-profile and out-ot-prof= ile in regard to MPLS-TP. Much obliged.

As for your challenge I do have solution but, I= believe, it is HW specific. Sorry if you can not do that.

 

    Regards,

        Greg

 

From: Shahram Davari [= mailto:davari@broadcom.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 12:55 PM
To: Gregory Mirsky; hi= deki.endo.es@hitachi.com
Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org
Subject: RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working g= roup last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map)

Greg,

We have a fundamental difference of opinio= n.  I have been involved in the OAM for over a decade now and one of t= he fundamental architectural requirements is that OAM packets MUST follow the data packets in the network and inside= a switch/router up to the observation point (MEP). So it is not acceptable= for data packets to be on Interface A and for MEP to be on Interface B.

In the example I gave, can you please tell= me how you can do Loss Measurement for the LSP with UP-MEP? How do you inc= rement the LSP UP-MEP receive LM counters for packets received from PW-A and PW-B? and where is the LSP-UP-MEP locat= ed?

Thx
Shahram

From: Gregory Mirsky [mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 12:42 PM
To: Shahram Davari; hi= deki.endo.es@hitachi.com
Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org
Subject: RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working g= roup last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map)

Hi Shahram,

UP MEP, whether as defined by RFC 6371 or as de= fined elsewhere, e.g. IEEE 802.1ag, is not required to be co-located with a= n ingress to monitored service, e.g. attachement circuit, but with logical interface that represents monitored = service. Location of UP MEP is undefined as long as it complies with where = is sends to and receives from OAM packets/frames. In case of MPLS this elem= ent if MPLS forwarding function, in case of Ethernet - Bridge Relay Entity. For MPLS, as long as OAM packet= s sent to forwarding and get proper encapsulation, IMHO, we have ourselves = an UP MEP. How packet being bounced within a node to get such treatment, I = think, is implementation specific.

    Regards,

        Greg

From: Shahram Davari [= mailto:davari@broadcom.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 11:59 AM
To: Gregory Mirsky; hi= deki.endo.es@hitachi.com
Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org
Subject: RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working g= roup last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map)

Greg,

RFC6371 is very high level and does not de= fine whether UP MEP applies to LSP or PW.  Assume there are 2 ingress = interfaces A & B. Each interface maps Ethernet traffic to its own PW (PW-A and PW-B). Now assume both these PWs go inside= the same LSP that exists Interface C. Now please explain if we were to hav= e an UP-MEP for LSP then on which interface would that LSP UP-MEP reside? I= nterface A? B? C?

This simple example shows you can=92t have= an LSP UP-MEP.

Thx
SD

From: Gregory Mirsky [mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:56 AM
To: Shahram Davari; hi= deki.endo.es@hitachi.com
Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org
Subject: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working group= last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map)

Dear All,

What would be the most appropriate subject to continue this = discussion? I'll give it a try, please feel free to change it.

I think that there's nothing that can preclude from supporti= ng UP MEP on MPLS-TP LSP, according to UP MEP definition of RFC 6371, even = when multpiple PWs mapped to that LSP. Same, I think, is the true for  p2mp PW. Note that service, VPWS, is = not part of MPLS-TP architecture.

        Regards,

          =       Greg

-----Original Message-----

From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Beha= lf Of Shahram Davari

Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:30 AM

Subject: Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call ondraft-ietf= -mpls-tp-mip-mep-map

Hideki,

So far no RFC or draft has talked about Down or UP MEP for L= SPs. But if you think about it logically LSPs can't have UP-MEP because LSP= can carry many PWs and each PW may enter the LSP from a different port/interface.  PWs can have UP-MEP b= ut only for P2P services (VPWS), otherwise they can't have UP-MEP either (s= ame as LSP).

My suggestion is to correct figures and change UP-MEPs to Do= wn-MEPs for LSPs. Also to mention UP-MEP is out of scope.=

Thx

SD

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:20 AM

To: Shahram Davari

Subject: Re:Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call ondraft-i= etf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map

Hi Shahram,

Just one comment.

>I would also argue that LSPs can't have UP-MEPs, since P= Ws from many ingress ports can enter an LSP  and therefore the LSP can= 't start on the ingress interface.

I think this depends on implementations.

Any RFC don't restrict to DOWN-MEPs in an LSP.

Anyway, MEP mechanism is out of scope in this draft as you s= aid.

Thanks,

Hideki Endo

>Hi,

> 

>Although I mentioned I am Ok with the draft to be advanc= ed to RFC, but after reviewing it in more details it appears that the draft= , in spite of its name, does talk about UP-MEP at all and only talks about UP-MIP, while the figures show UP-MEPs = for LSPs.  Even if the scope of the draft is UP-MIP, considering that = there can't be a MIP without a MEP,  the draft should have some wordin= g regarding UP-MEPs and their applicability to LSPs and PWs. I would also argue that LSPs can't have UP-MEPs, since PW= s from many ingress ports can enter an LSP  and therefore the LSP can'= t start on the ingress interface.

> 

>A quick fix at this point is to mention UP-MEP is out of= scope and change the figures to only show Down-MEPs. A better fix is to el= aborate on UP-MEP and its applicability and placement, etc.

> 

>Regards,

>Shahram

> 

>

> 

>-----Original Message-----

>Shahram Davari

>Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2013 11:30 AM

>To: Loa Andersson; mpls@ietf.org

>Subject: Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call on

>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map

> 

>My Comments are addressed and I support this draft to be= published as Informational  RFC.

> 

>Thx

>Shahram

> 

>-----Original Message-----

>Loa Andersson

>Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 3:02 AM

>Subject: [mpls] 2nd working group last call on

>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map

> 

>Working Group,

> 

>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05.txt has been updated a= fter a previous

>last call, due to the nature a and extent of the updates= we have chosen

>to start a 2nd wg last call.

> 

>The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:

> 

>There's also a htmlized version available at:

> 

>A diff from the previous version is available at:=

> 

>Please send your comments, including approval of the doc= uments and the

>updates to the mpls working group list (mpls@ietf.org)

> 

>This working group last call ends March 13, 2013.=

> 

>/Loa

>for the MPLS working group co-chairs

>--

> 

> 

>Loa Andersson       &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;    email: loa@mail01.huawei.com

>Senior MPLS Expert      &n= bsp;            = ;       loa@pi.nu

>Huawei Technologies (consult)    &nb= sp;   phone: +46 739 81 21 64

>_______________________________________________

>mpls mailing list

> 

> 

>_______________________________________________

>mpls mailing list

> 

> 

>_______________________________________________

>mpls mailing list

> 

_______________________________________________<= /o:p>

mpls mailing list

--_000_751954C66DCB4DA3A2180848C305CC24broadcomcom_-- From loa@pi.nu Wed Mar 13 18:40:14 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7311421F8DA0 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 18:40:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -100.973 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-100.973 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.075, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, RDNS_NONE=0.1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sotxl1he5E9w for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 18:40:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.pi.nu (unknown [195.206.248.139]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1870521F870F for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2013 18:40:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [130.129.129.127] (unknown [130.129.129.127]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.pi.nu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4E88D823B5; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 02:40:03 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <51412A74.9090003@pi.nu> Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 02:40:04 +0100 From: Loa Andersson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130307 Thunderbird/17.0.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "mpls@ietf.org" References: <512C960E.70109@pi.nu> In-Reply-To: <512C960E.70109@pi.nu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: "" , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org Subject: Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call on draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 01:40:15 -0000 Working Group, this wg last call has been closed. There have been comments, could the authors please review these comments and if necessary update the document. /Loa for the wg chairs On 2013-02-26 12:01, Loa Andersson wrote: > Working Group, > > draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05.txt has been updated after a > previous last call, due to the nature a and extent of the updates > we have chosen to start a 2nd wg last call. > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map > > There's also a htmlized version available at: > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05 > > A diff from the previous version is available at: > http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05 > > Please send your comments, including approval of the documents and > the updates to the mpls working group list (mpls@ietf.org) > > This working group last call ends March 13, 2013. > > /Loa > for the MPLS working group co-chairs -- Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu Huawei Technologies (consult) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 From hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com Thu Mar 14 04:00:20 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B05B21F8E1C for ; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 04:00:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.871 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.871 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.219, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_JP=1.244, HOST_EQ_JP=1.265, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DzOzpNQ6-xRp for ; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 04:00:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail7.hitachi.co.jp (mail7.hitachi.co.jp [133.145.228.42]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9064721F8DCF for ; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 04:00:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mlsv4.hitachi.co.jp (unknown [133.144.234.166]) by mail7.hitachi.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BE7D37AC3; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 20:00:13 +0900 (JST) Received: from mfilter03.hitachi.co.jp by mlsv4.hitachi.co.jp (8.13.1/8.13.1) id r2EB0DPh000794; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 20:00:13 +0900 Received: from vshuts04.hitachi.co.jp (vshuts04.hitachi.co.jp [10.201.6.86]) by mfilter03.hitachi.co.jp (Switch-3.3.4/Switch-3.3.4) with ESMTP id r2EB0CG3017741; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 20:00:13 +0900 Received: from gmml25.itg.hitachi.co.jp (unknown [158.213.165.145]) by vshuts04.hitachi.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3847E14004F; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 20:00:12 +0900 (JST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] by gmml25.itg.hitachi.co.jp (AIX5.2/8.11.6p2/8.11.0) id r2EB0C12936930; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 20:00:12 +0900 Message-Type: Multiple Part MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii To: From: Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 19:59:52 +0900 References: <512C960E.70109@pi.nu> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD962A2@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broa> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9AAF4@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broa> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9AB6D@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broa> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF11206FBD5@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9BA48@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broa> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9BDE1@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broa> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9BE7E@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broa> Priority: normal Importance: normal X400-Content-Identifier: X5141AD9700000M X400-MTS-Identifier: [/C=JP/ADMD=HITNET/PRMD=HITACHI/;gmml28130314195935T3T] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: mpls@ietf.org, mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org, mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org, draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org Subject: Re: [mpls] On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: 2ndworking grou X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 11:00:20 -0000 Sharam, I'm not sure what you want to do. Currently, there is no RFC restricting to DOWN-MEP as you know, which means that there is no consensus on the restriction in MPLS WG. If you want to standardize the restriction, what you should do is to submit new draft to make a consensus. IMO, considering future extention, unnecessary restriction MUST NOT be defined at this point. Thanks, Hideki Endo >Hideki, > >The question is if the span of PWs and the LSP are the same (they start and end on same interface), then what is the point of monitoring the LSP? You can just monitor the PW. > >And I completely disagree that just because something is possible it has to be standardized. We need simple methods that are as generic as possible in standards. LSP UPMEP in my opinion adds a lot of complexity for not much apparent gain. > >Thx >Shahram > >-----Original Message----- >From: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com [mailto:hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com] >Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 3:47 PM >To: Shahram Davari >Cc: gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org >Subject: Re:RE: Re:RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2ndworking grouplast > >Sharam, > >Yes niche, but possible. > >If there are any possibilities, >we MUST NOT preclude the possibilities in an international standard. > >Thanks, >Hideki Endo > > >>Hideki, >> >>Correct, but such LSP that can only accept packets from a single interface is very niche application and not generic enough to define an UPMEP for it. We need a definition that is applicable to LSPs in general. >> >>Thx >>SD >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com [mailto:hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com] >>Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 3:31 PM >>To: Shahram Davari >>Cc: gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org >>Subject: Re:RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working grouplast call o >> >>Sharam, >> >>Very simple question. >> >>>Assume there are 2 ingress interfaces A & B. Each interface maps Ethernet traffic >>>to its own PW (PW-A and PW-B). Now assume both these PWs go inside the same LSP that exists Interface C. >>Why is this assumption mandatory? >> >>"Assume there are 1 ingress interfaces A. Two VLAN flows in the interface A are mapped >> to different PWs (PW-A and PW-B). Now assume both these PWs go inside the same LSP." >>In this case, UP-MEP of the LSP can be at interface A, right? >> >>Thanks, >>Hideki Endo >> >> >>>Greg, >>> >>>RFC6371 is very high level and does not define whether UP MEP applies to LSP or PW. Assume there are 2 ingress interfaces A & B. Each interface maps Ethernet traffic to its own PW (PW-A and PW-B). Now assume both these PWs go inside the same LSP that exists Interface C. Now please explain if we were to have an UP-MEP for LSP then on which interface would that LSP UP-MEP reside? Interface A? B? C? >>> >>>This simple example shows you can't have an LSP UP-MEP. >>> >>>Thx >>>SD >>> >>>From: Gregory Mirsky [mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com] >>>Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:56 AM >>>To: Shahram Davari; hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com >>>Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org >>>Subject: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working group last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) >>> >>>Dear All, >>>What would be the most appropriate subject to continue this discussion? I'll give it a try, please feel free to change it. >>> >>>I think that there's nothing that can preclude from supporting UP MEP on MPLS-TP LSP, according to UP MEP definition of RFC 6371, even when multpiple PWs mapped to that LSP. Same, I think, is the true for p2mp PW. Note that service, VPWS, is not part of MPLS-TP architecture. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Greg >>> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Shahram Davari >>>Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:30 AM >>>To: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com >>>Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org >>>Subject: Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map >>> >>>Hideki, >>> >>>So far no RFC or draft has talked about Down or UP MEP for LSPs. But if you think about it logically LSPs can't have UP-MEP because LSP can carry many PWs and each PW may enter the LSP from a different port/interface. PWs can have UP-MEP but only for P2P services (VPWS), otherwise they can't have UP-MEP either (same as LSP). >>> >>>My suggestion is to correct figures and change UP-MEPs to Down-MEPs for LSPs. Also to mention UP-MEP is out of scope. >>> >>>Thx >>>SD >>> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com [mailto:hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com] >>>Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:20 AM >>>To: Shahram Davari >>>Cc: loa@pi.nu; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org >>>Subject: Re:Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map >>> >>>Hi Shahram, >>> >>>Just one comment. >>> >>>>I would also argue that LSPs can't have UP-MEPs, since PWs from many ingress ports can enter an LSP and therefore the LSP can't start on the ingress interface. >>> >>>I think this depends on implementations. >>>Any RFC don't restrict to DOWN-MEPs in an LSP. >>> >>>Anyway, MEP mechanism is out of scope in this draft as you said. >>> >>>Thanks, >>>Hideki Endo >>> >>>>Hi, >>>> >>>>Although I mentioned I am Ok with the draft to be advanced to RFC, but after reviewing it in more details it appears that the draft, in spite of its name, does talk about UP-MEP at all and only talks about UP-MIP, while the figures show UP-MEPs for LSPs. Even if the scope of the draft is UP-MIP, considering that there can't be a MIP without a MEP, the draft should have some wording regarding UP-MEPs and their applicability to LSPs and PWs. I would also argue that LSPs can't have UP-MEPs, since PWs from many ingress ports can enter an LSP and therefore the LSP can't start on the ingress interface. >>>> >>>>A quick fix at this point is to mention UP-MEP is out of scope and change the figures to only show Down-MEPs. A better fix is to elaborate on UP-MEP and its applicability and placement, etc. >>>> >>>>Regards, >>>>Shahram >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of >>>>Shahram Davari >>>>Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2013 11:30 AM >>>>To: Loa Andersson; mpls@ietf.org >>>>Cc: >; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; >>>>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org >>>>Subject: Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call on >>>>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map >>>> >>>>My Comments are addressed and I support this draft to be published as Informational RFC. >>>> >>>>Thx >>>>Shahram >>>> >>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of >>>>Loa Andersson >>>>Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 3:02 AM >>>>To: mpls@ietf.org >>>>Cc: >; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; >>>>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org >>>>Subject: [mpls] 2nd working group last call on >>>>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map >>>> >>>>Working Group, >>>> >>>>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05.txt has been updated after a previous >>>>last call, due to the nature a and extent of the updates we have chosen >>>>to start a 2nd wg last call. >>>> >>>>The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: >>>>https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map >>>> >>>>There's also a htmlized version available at: >>>>http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05 >>>> >>>>A diff from the previous version is available at: >>>>http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05 >>>> >>>>Please send your comments, including approval of the documents and the >>>>updates to the mpls working group list (mpls@ietf.org) >>>> >>>>This working group last call ends March 13, 2013. >>>> >>>>/Loa >>>>for the MPLS working group co-chairs >>>>-- >>>> >>>> >>>>Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com >>>>Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu >>>>Huawei Technologies (consult) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>mpls mailing list >>>>mpls@ietf.org >>>>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls >>>> >>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>mpls mailing list >>>>mpls@ietf.org >>>>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls >>>> >>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>mpls mailing list >>>>mpls@ietf.org >>>>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls >>>> >>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>mpls mailing list >>>mpls@ietf.org >>>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls >>> >>> >> >> >> > > > From loa@pi.nu Thu Mar 14 08:08:49 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF35311E8221 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 08:08:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -99.749 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-99.749 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.300, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, RDNS_NONE=0.1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0hW7xuIbKBA7 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 08:08:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.pi.nu (unknown [195.206.248.139]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC37F11E8228 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 08:08:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [130.129.21.10] (dhcp-150a.meeting.ietf.org [130.129.21.10]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.pi.nu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5A20F823B5; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 16:08:27 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <5141E7EC.3090901@pi.nu> Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 16:08:28 +0100 From: Loa Andersson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130307 Thunderbird/17.0.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "mpls@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , draft-ietf-mpls-tp-temporal-hitless-psm@tools.ietf.org Subject: [mpls] working group last call on draft-ietf-mpls-tp-temporal-hitless-psm X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 15:08:49 -0000 Working Group, this is to start a two week Working Group last call on draft-ietf-mpls-tp-temporal-hitless-psm-02.txt. Please send your comments to the mpls working group mailing list (mpls@ietf.org). Please send both technical comments, and if you are happy with the document as is also indications of support. There are no IPR claims against this draft. The co-authors have earlier stated that they are not aware of any IPRs applicable to this draft. If anyone else in the working group are aware of IPRs claims against this draft, the time to disclose that is now. This working group last call will end on April 2, 2013. /Loa for the wg co-chairs -- Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu Huawei Technologies (consult) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 From davari@broadcom.com Thu Mar 14 09:55:23 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4390911E80E7 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 09:55:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xYnW0x2+4ZGQ for ; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 09:55:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mms2.broadcom.com (mms2.broadcom.com [216.31.210.18]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4043921F8CEE for ; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 09:55:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.16.192.224] by mms2.broadcom.com with ESMTP (Broadcom SMTP Relay (Email Firewall v6.5)); Thu, 14 Mar 2013 09:50:55 -0700 X-Server-Uuid: 4500596E-606A-40F9-852D-14843D8201B2 Received: from SJEXCHCAS05.corp.ad.broadcom.com (10.16.203.13) by SJEXCHHUB01.corp.ad.broadcom.com (10.16.192.224) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.2.247.2; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 09:55:04 -0700 Received: from SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com ( [fe80::bc15:c1e1:c29a:36f7]) by SJEXCHCAS05.corp.ad.broadcom.com ( [::1]) with mapi id 14.01.0438.000; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 09:55:03 -0700 From: "Shahram Davari" To: "hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com" Thread-Topic: Re:RE: Re:RE: Re:RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls]2ndworking grou Thread-Index: AQHOIKMh2xwzsRuJnUq7Qk/C0mTc0pilZ91Q Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 16:55:03 +0000 Message-ID: <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9C4A2@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> References: <512C960E.70109@pi.nu> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD962A2@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broa> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9AAF4@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broa> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9AB6D@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broa> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF11206FBD5@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9BA48@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broa> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9BDE1@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broa> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9BE7E@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broa> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.16.203.100] MIME-Version: 1.0 X-WSS-ID: 7D5F20663C01906549-20-01 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , "mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: 2ndworking grou X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 16:55:23 -0000 I just asked that the figures in mip-mep-map draft be changed to Down-MEP, = instead of UP-MEP. Thx SD -----Original Message----- From: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com [mailto:hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com]=20 Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2013 4:00 AM To: Shahram Davari Cc: gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org;= draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org Subject: Re:RE: Re:RE: Re:RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls]2ndw= orking grou Sharam, I'm not sure what you want to do. Currently, there is no RFC restricting to DOWN-MEP as you know, which means that there is no consensus on the restriction in MPLS WG. If you want to standardize the restriction, what you should do is to submit new draft to make a consensus. IMO, considering future extention, unnecessary restriction MUST NOT be defined at this point. Thanks, Hideki Endo >Hideki, > >The question is if the span of PWs and the LSP are the same (they start an= d end on same interface), then what is the point of monitoring the LSP? You= can just monitor the PW.=20 > >And I completely disagree that just because something is possible it has t= o be standardized. We need simple methods that are as generic as possible i= n standards. LSP UPMEP in my opinion adds a lot of complexity for not much = apparent gain.=20 > >Thx >Shahram=20 > >-----Original Message----- >From: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com [mailto:hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com]=20 >Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 3:47 PM >To: Shahram Davari >Cc: gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org= ; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org >Subject: Re:RE: Re:RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2ndworkin= g grouplast > >Sharam, > >Yes niche, but possible. > >If there are any possibilities, >we MUST NOT preclude the possibilities in an international standard. > >Thanks, >Hideki Endo > > >>Hideki, >> >>Correct, but such LSP that can only accept packets from a single interfac= e is very niche application and not generic enough to define an UPMEP for i= t. We need a definition that is applicable to LSPs in general. >> >>Thx >>SD >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com [mailto:hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com]=20 >>Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 3:31 PM >>To: Shahram Davari >>Cc: gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.or= g; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org >>Subject: Re:RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working gro= uplast call o >> >>Sharam, >> >>Very simple question. >> >>>Assume there are 2 ingress interfaces A & B. Each interface maps Etherne= t traffic >>>to its own PW (PW-A and PW-B). Now assume both these PWs go inside the s= ame LSP that exists Interface C.=20 >>Why is this assumption mandatory? >> >>"Assume there are 1 ingress interfaces A. Two VLAN flows in the interface= A are mapped >> to different PWs (PW-A and PW-B). Now assume both these PWs go inside th= e same LSP." >>In this case, UP-MEP of the LSP can be at interface A, right? >> >>Thanks, >>Hideki Endo >> >> >>>Greg, >>> >>>RFC6371 is very high level and does not define whether UP MEP applies to= LSP or PW. Assume there are 2 ingress interfaces A & B. Each interface ma= ps Ethernet traffic to its own PW (PW-A and PW-B). Now assume both these PW= s go inside the same LSP that exists Interface C. Now please explain if we = were to have an UP-MEP for LSP then on which interface would that LSP UP-ME= P reside? Interface A? B? C? >>> >>>This simple example shows you can't have an LSP UP-MEP. >>> >>>Thx >>>SD >>> >>>From: Gregory Mirsky [mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com] >>>Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:56 AM >>>To: Shahram Davari; hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com >>>Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-me= p-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org >>>Subject: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working group las= t call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) >>> >>>Dear All, >>>What would be the most appropriate subject to continue this discussion? = I'll give it a try, please feel free to change it. >>> >>>I think that there's nothing that can preclude from supporting UP MEP on= MPLS-TP LSP, according to UP MEP definition of RFC 6371, even when multpip= le PWs mapped to that LSP. Same, I think, is the true for p2mp PW. Note th= at service, VPWS, is not part of MPLS-TP architecture. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Greg >>> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-b= ounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Shahram Davari >>>Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:30 AM >>>To: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com >>>Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.o= rg; mpls-ads@tools.ie= tf.org >>>Subject: Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip= -mep-map >>> >>>Hideki, >>> >>>So far no RFC or draft has talked about Down or UP MEP for LSPs. But if = you think about it logically LSPs can't have UP-MEP because LSP can carry m= any PWs and each PW may enter the LSP from a different port/interface. PWs= can have UP-MEP but only for P2P services (VPWS), otherwise they can't hav= e UP-MEP either (same as LSP). >>> >>>My suggestion is to correct figures and change UP-MEPs to Down-MEPs for = LSPs. Also to mention UP-MEP is out of scope. >>> >>>Thx >>>SD >>> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com [mai= lto:hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com] >>>Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:20 AM >>>To: Shahram Davari >>>Cc: loa@pi.nu; mpls@ietf.org; mp= ls-ads@tools.ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ie= tf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@t= ools.ietf.org >>>Subject: Re:Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-= mip-mep-map >>> >>>Hi Shahram, >>> >>>Just one comment. >>> >>>>I would also argue that LSPs can't have UP-MEPs, since PWs from many in= gress ports can enter an LSP and therefore the LSP can't start on the ingr= ess interface. >>> >>>I think this depends on implementations. >>>Any RFC don't restrict to DOWN-MEPs in an LSP. >>> >>>Anyway, MEP mechanism is out of scope in this draft as you said. >>> >>>Thanks, >>>Hideki Endo >>> >>>>Hi, >>>> >>>>Although I mentioned I am Ok with the draft to be advanced to RFC, but = after reviewing it in more details it appears that the draft, in spite of i= ts name, does talk about UP-MEP at all and only talks about UP-MIP, while t= he figures show UP-MEPs for LSPs. Even if the scope of the draft is UP-MIP= , considering that there can't be a MIP without a MEP, the draft should ha= ve some wording regarding UP-MEPs and their applicability to LSPs and PWs. = I would also argue that LSPs can't have UP-MEPs, since PWs from many ingres= s ports can enter an LSP and therefore the LSP can't start on the ingress = interface. >>>> >>>>A quick fix at this point is to mention UP-MEP is out of scope and chan= ge the figures to only show Down-MEPs. A better fix is to elaborate on UP-M= EP and its applicability and placement, etc. >>>> >>>>Regards, >>>>Shahram >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-= bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of >>>>Shahram Davari >>>>Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2013 11:30 AM >>>>To: Loa Andersson; mpls@ietf.org >>>>Cc: >; mpls-cha= irs@tools.ietf.org; >>>>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org >>>>Subject: Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call on >>>>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map >>>> >>>>My Comments are addressed and I support this draft to be published as I= nformational RFC. >>>> >>>>Thx >>>>Shahram >>>> >>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-= bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of >>>>Loa Andersson >>>>Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 3:02 AM >>>>To: mpls@ietf.org >>>>Cc: >; mpls-cha= irs@tools.ietf.org; >>>>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org >>>>Subject: [mpls] 2nd working group last call on >>>>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map >>>> >>>>Working Group, >>>> >>>>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05.txt has been updated after a previous >>>>last call, due to the nature a and extent of the updates we have chosen >>>>to start a 2nd wg last call. >>>> >>>>The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: >>>>https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map >>>> >>>>There's also a htmlized version available at: >>>>http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05 >>>> >>>>A diff from the previous version is available at: >>>>http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05 >>>> >>>>Please send your comments, including approval of the documents and the >>>>updates to the mpls working group list (mpls@ietf.org) >>>> >>>>This working group last call ends March 13, 2013. >>>> >>>>/Loa >>>>for the MPLS working group co-chairs >>>>-- >>>> >>>> >>>>Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com >>>>Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu >>>>Huawei Technologies (consult) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>mpls mailing list >>>>mpls@ietf.org >>>>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls >>>> >>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>mpls mailing list >>>>mpls@ietf.org >>>>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls >>>> >>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>mpls mailing list >>>>mpls@ietf.org >>>>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls >>>> >>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>mpls mailing list >>>mpls@ietf.org >>>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls >>> >>> >> >> >> > > > From pabloisnot@gmail.com Thu Mar 14 10:48:03 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1D8E11E8110 for ; 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Thu, 14 Mar 2013 10:48:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.97.97 with HTTP; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 10:48:00 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9BB39@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> References: <512C960E.70109@pi.nu> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD962A2@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broa> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9AAF4@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broa> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9AB6D@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF11206FBD5@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9BA48@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF112070391@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9BB39@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 13:48:00 -0400 Message-ID: From: Pablo Frank To: Shahram Davari Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=14dae9cdc487af28a704d7e61fb9 Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org" , "mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org" , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: 2nd working group last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 17:48:04 -0000 --14dae9cdc487af28a704d7e61fb9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Shahram, I think you ask an interesting fundamental question below. i.e. what is the interface that an LSP up-MEP really associated with? IMHO, it's not the PWE interfaces. A MEP cannot live on multiple interfaces simultaneously. Furthermore, a MEP that is meant to monitor a tunnel has no business operating on an interface in a completely different network layer. We know that an up-MEP must appear before the "forwarding" function but I struggle to find a good definition for what the MPLS forwarding function really encompasses. If I look to RFC 3031, one is tempted to define the MPLS forwarding function as the combination of the ILM/FEC+NHLFE. A related question is "where does the LSP begin"? According to 3031, the new label is imposed by the NHLFE. So does that mean that tunnels begin *after* the forwarding function, or is it "during"/"before"? If it's after, then I have a hard time accepting that an up-MEP for tunnels even exists. OTOH, something like a P2MP LSP does not fit well with this model. Surely in P2MP, the act of multicasting the frame is part of the forwarding function? IEEE 802.1q solves this problem by creating a virtual interface (i.e. the CBP) inside an IB-BEB for the tunnel up-MEPs to live on. I know of no equivalent concept in MPLS so we would likely have to define something to be able to move forward on the concept of an LSP up-MEP. But it seems to me that if an LSP up-MEP exists, it sits on some-yet-to-be-determined object that is somewhere between the PWE interfaces and the MPLS forwarding function. I suspect that we'll get nowhere if we focus on implementation-specific perspectives. The answer has to be derived from the architecture of MPLS and PWEs. regards, Pablo On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 3:55 PM, Shahram Davari wrote= : > Greg,**** > > ** ** > > We have a fundamental difference of opinion. I have been involved in the > OAM for over a decade now and one of the fundamental architectural > requirements is that OAM packets MUST follow the data packets in the > network and inside a switch/router up to the observation point (MEP). So = it > is not acceptable for data packets to be on Interface A and for MEP to be > on Interface B. **** > > ** ** > > In the example I gave, can you please tell me how you can do Loss > Measurement for the LSP with UP-MEP? How do you increment the LSP UP-MEP > receive LM counters for packets received from PW-A and PW-B? and where is > the LSP-UP-MEP located?**** > > ** ** > > Thx > Shahram**** > > ** ** > > *From:* Gregory Mirsky [mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com] > *Sent:* Wednesday, March 13, 2013 12:42 PM > > *To:* Shahram Davari; hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com > *Cc:* mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; > draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org > *Subject:* RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working > group last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map)**** > > ** ** > > Hi Shahram,**** > > UP MEP, whether as defined by RFC 6371 or as defined elsewhere, e.g. IEEE > 802.1ag, is not required to be co-located with an ingress to monitored > service, e.g. attachement circuit, but with logical interface that > represents monitored service. Location of UP MEP is undefined as long as = it > complies with where is sends to and receives from OAM packets/frames. In > case of MPLS this element if MPLS forwarding function, in case of Etherne= t > - Bridge Relay Entity. For MPLS, as long as OAM packets sent to forwardin= g > and get proper encapsulation, IMHO, we have ourselves an UP MEP. How pack= et > being bounced within a node to get such treatment, I think, is > implementation specific.**** > > **** > > Regards,**** > > Greg**** > > ** ** > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Shahram Davari [mailto:davari@broadcom.com ] > *Sent:* Wednesday, March 13, 2013 11:59 AM > *To:* Gregory Mirsky; hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com > *Cc:* mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; > draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org > *Subject:* RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working > group last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map)**** > > Greg,**** > > ** ** > > RFC6371 is very high level and does not define whether UP MEP applies to > LSP or PW. Assume there are 2 ingress interfaces A & B. Each interface > maps Ethernet traffic to its own PW (PW-A and PW-B). Now assume both thes= e > PWs go inside the same LSP that exists Interface C. Now please explain if > we were to have an UP-MEP for LSP then on which interface would that LSP > UP-MEP reside? Interface A? B? C?**** > > ** ** > > This simple example shows you can=92t have an LSP UP-MEP.**** > > ** ** > > Thx > SD**** > > ** ** > > *From:* Gregory Mirsky [mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com] > > *Sent:* Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:56 AM > *To:* Shahram Davari; hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com > *Cc:* mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; > draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org > *Subject:* On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working group > last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map)**** > > ** ** > > Dear All,**** > > What would be the most appropriate subject to continue this discussion? > I'll give it a try, please feel free to change it. **** > > **** > > I think that there's nothing that can preclude from supporting UP MEP on > MPLS-TP LSP, according to UP MEP definition of RFC 6371, even when > multpiple PWs mapped to that LSP. Same, I think, is the true for p2mp PW= . > Note that service, VPWS, is not part of MPLS-TP architecture.**** > > **** > > Regards,**** > > Greg**** > > **** > > -----Original Message-----**** > > From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] > On Behalf Of Shahram Davari**** > > Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:30 AM**** > > To: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com**** > > Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; > draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org***= * > > Subject: Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call > ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map**** > > **** > > Hideki,**** > > **** > > So far no RFC or draft has talked about Down or UP MEP for LSPs. But if > you think about it logically LSPs can't have UP-MEP because LSP can carry > many PWs and each PW may enter the LSP from a different port/interface. > PWs can have UP-MEP but only for P2P services (VPWS), otherwise they can'= t > have UP-MEP either (same as LSP).**** > > **** > > My suggestion is to correct figures and change UP-MEPs to Down-MEPs for > LSPs. Also to mention UP-MEP is out of scope.**** > > **** > > Thx**** > > SD**** > > **** > > -----Original Message-----**** > > From: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com [mailto:hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com > ]**** > > Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:20 AM**** > > To: Shahram Davari**** > > Cc: loa@pi.nu; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org; > mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org= * > *** > > Subject: Re:Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call > ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map**** > > **** > > Hi Shahram,**** > > **** > > Just one comment.**** > > **** > > >I would also argue that LSPs can't have UP-MEPs, since PWs from many > ingress ports can enter an LSP and therefore the LSP can't start on the > ingress interface.**** > > **** > > I think this depends on implementations.**** > > Any RFC don't restrict to DOWN-MEPs in an LSP.**** > > **** > > Anyway, MEP mechanism is out of scope in this draft as you said.**** > > **** > > Thanks,**** > > Hideki Endo**** > > **** > > >Hi,**** > > >** ** > > >Although I mentioned I am Ok with the draft to be advanced to RFC, but > after reviewing it in more details it appears that the draft, in spite of > its name, does talk about UP-MEP at all and only talks about UP-MIP, whil= e > the figures show UP-MEPs for LSPs. Even if the scope of the draft is > UP-MIP, considering that there can't be a MIP without a MEP, the draft > should have some wording regarding UP-MEPs and their applicability to LSP= s > and PWs. I would also argue that LSPs can't have UP-MEPs, since PWs from > many ingress ports can enter an LSP and therefore the LSP can't start on > the ingress interface.**** > > >** ** > > >A quick fix at this point is to mention UP-MEP is out of scope and chang= e > the figures to only show Down-MEPs. A better fix is to elaborate on UP-ME= P > and its applicability and placement, etc.**** > > >** ** > > >Regards,**** > > >Shahram**** > > >** ** > > > **** > > >** ** > > >-----Original Message-----**** > > >From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] > On Behalf Of **** > > >Shahram Davari**** > > >Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2013 11:30 AM**** > > >To: Loa Andersson; mpls@ietf.org**** > > >Cc: ; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; ** ** > > >draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org**** > > >Subject: Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call on **** > > >draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map**** > > >** ** > > >My Comments are addressed and I support this draft to be published as > Informational RFC.**** > > >** ** > > >Thx**** > > >Shahram**** > > >** ** > > >-----Original Message-----**** > > >From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] > On Behalf Of **** > > >Loa Andersson**** > > >Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 3:02 AM**** > > >To: mpls@ietf.org**** > > >Cc: ; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; ** ** > > >draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org**** > > >Subject: [mpls] 2nd working group last call on **** > > >draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map**** > > >** ** > > >Working Group,**** > > >** ** > > >draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05.txt has been updated after a previous = * > *** > > >last call, due to the nature a and extent of the updates we have chosen = * > *** > > >to start a 2nd wg last call.**** > > >** ** > > >The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:**** > > >https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map**** > > >** ** > > >There's also a htmlized version available at:**** > > >http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05**** > > >** ** > > >A diff from the previous version is available at:**** > > >http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05**** > > >** ** > > >Please send your comments, including approval of the documents and the *= * > ** > > >updates to the mpls working group list (mpls@ietf.org)**** > > >** ** > > >This working group last call ends March 13, 2013.**** > > >** ** > > >/Loa**** > > >for the MPLS working group co-chairs**** > > >--**** > > >** ** > > >** ** > > >Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com**** > > >Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu**** > > >Huawei Technologies (consult) phone: +46 739 81 21 64**** > > >_______________________________________________**** > > >mpls mailing list**** > > >mpls@ietf.org**** > > >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls**** > > >** ** > > >** ** > > >_______________________________________________**** > > >mpls mailing list**** > > >mpls@ietf.org**** > > >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls**** > > >** ** > > >** ** > > >_______________________________________________**** > > >mpls mailing list**** > > >mpls@ietf.org**** > > >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls**** > > >** ** > > **** > > **** > > _______________________________________________**** > > mpls mailing list**** > > mpls@ietf.org**** > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls**** > > **** > > _______________________________________________ > mpls mailing list > mpls@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > > --14dae9cdc487af28a704d7e61fb9 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Shahram,

I think you ask an interesting fundamenta= l question below. i.e. what is the interface that an LSP up-MEP really asso= ciated with? =A0IMHO, it's not the PWE interfaces. =A0A MEP cannot live= on multiple interfaces simultaneously. =A0Furthermore, a MEP that is meant= to monitor a tunnel has no business operating on an interface in a complet= ely different network layer. =A0We know that an up-MEP must appear before t= he "forwarding" function but I struggle to find a good definition= for what the MPLS forwarding function really encompasses. =A0

If I look to RFC 3031, one is tempted to define the MPLS for= warding function as the combination of the ILM/FEC+NHLFE. =A0A related ques= tion is "where does the LSP begin"? =A0According to 3031, the new= label is imposed by the NHLFE. =A0So does that mean that tunnels begin *af= ter* the forwarding function, or is it "during"/"before"= ;? =A0If it's after, then I have a hard time accepting that an up-MEP f= or tunnels even exists. =A0OTOH, something like a P2MP LSP does not fit wel= l with this model. =A0Surely in P2MP, the act of multicasting the frame is = part of the forwarding function?

IEEE 802.1q solves this problem by creating a virtual i= nterface (i.e. the CBP) inside an IB-BEB for the tunnel up-MEPs to live on.= =A0I know of no equivalent concept in MPLS so we would likely have to defi= ne something to be able to move forward on the concept of an LSP up-MEP. = =A0But it seems to me that if an LSP up-MEP exists, it sits on some-yet-to-= be-determined object that is somewhere between the PWE interfaces and the M= PLS forwarding function.=A0

I suspect that we'll get nowhere if we focus on imp= lementation-specific perspectives. =A0The answer has to be derived from the= architecture of MPLS and PWEs.

regards,
Pablo

On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 3:55 P= M, Shahram Davari <davari@broadcom.com> wrote:

Greg,

=A0<= /p>

We have a fundamental dif= ference of opinion.=A0 I have been involved in the OAM for over a decade no= w and one of the fundamental architectural requirements is that OAM packets MUST follow the data packets in the network and inside a = switch/router up to the observation point (MEP). So it is not acceptable fo= r data packets to be on Interface A and for MEP to be on Interface B.

=A0<= /p>

In the example I gave, ca= n you please tell me how you can do Loss Measurement for the LSP with UP-ME= P? How do you increment the LSP UP-MEP receive LM counters for packets received from PW-A and PW-B? and where is the LSP-UP-MEP locat= ed?

=A0<= /p>

Thx
Shahram

=A0<= /p>

From: Gregory = Mirsky [mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 12:42 PM


To: Shahram Davari; hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com
Cc: mpls@ietf.org= ; mpls-= chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.iet= f.org; mpl= s-ads@tools.ietf.org
Subject: RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS= -TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working group last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-ma= p)

=A0

Hi Shahram,

UP MEP, whether as defined by = RFC 6371 or as defined elsewhere, e.g. IEEE 802.1ag, is not required to be = co-located with an ingress to monitored service, e.g. attachement circuit, but with logical interface that represents monitored service. Loc= ation of UP MEP is undefined as long as it complies with where is sends to = and receives from OAM packets/frames. In case of MPLS this element if MPLS = forwarding function, in case of Ethernet - Bridge Relay Entity. For MPLS, as long as OAM packets sent to f= orwarding and get proper encapsulation, IMHO, we have ourselves an UP MEP. = How packet being bounced within a node to get such treatment, I think, is i= mplementation specific.

=A0

=A0=A0=A0 Regards,

=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Greg

=A0

From:<= /span> Shahram Davari [mailto:davari@broadcom.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 11:59 AM
To: Gregory Mirsky; hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com
Cc: mpls@ietf.org= ; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org
Subject: RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working g= roup last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map)

Greg,

=A0<= /p>

RFC6371 is very high leve= l and does not define whether UP MEP applies to LSP or PW. =A0Assume there = are 2 ingress interfaces A & B. Each interface maps Ethernet traffic to its own PW (PW-A and PW-B). Now assume both these PWs go inside= the same LSP that exists Interface C. Now please explain if we were to hav= e an UP-MEP for LSP then on which interface would that LSP UP-MEP reside? I= nterface A? B? C?

=A0<= /p>

This simple example shows= you can=92t have an LSP UP-MEP.

=A0<= /p>

Thx
SD

=A0<= /p>

From: Gregory = Mirsky [ma= ilto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:56 AM
To: Shahram Davari; hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com
Cc: mpls@ietf.org= ; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org
Subject: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working group= last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map)

=A0

Dear All,

What would be the most appropriate subjec= t to continue this discussion? I'll give it a try, please feel free to = change it.

=A0

I think that there's nothing that can= preclude from supporting UP MEP on MPLS-TP LSP, according to UP MEP defini= tion of RFC 6371, even when multpiple PWs mapped to that LSP. Same, I think, is the true for=A0 p2mp PW. Note that service, VPWS, is not= part of MPLS-TP architecture.

=A0

=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Regards,<= /u>

=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0 Greg

=A0

-----Original Message-----<= /span>

From: mpls-bounces@iet= f.org [mailt= o:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Shahram Davari

Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:30 AM=

Subject: Re: [mpls] 2nd working group las= t call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map

=A0

Hideki,

=A0

So far no RFC or draft has talked about D= own or UP MEP for LSPs. But if you think about it logically LSPs can't = have UP-MEP because LSP can carry many PWs and each PW may enter the LSP from a different port/interface.=A0 PWs can have UP-MEP but only f= or P2P services (VPWS), otherwise they can't have UP-MEP either (same a= s LSP).

=A0

My suggestion is to correct figures and c= hange UP-MEPs to Down-MEPs for LSPs. Also to mention UP-MEP is out of scope= .

=A0

Thx

SD

=A0

-----Original Message-----<= /span>

Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:20 AM=

To: Shahram Davari

Subject: Re:Re: [mpls] 2nd working group = last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map

=A0

Hi Shahram,

=A0

Just one comment.

=A0

>I would also argue that LSPs can'= t have UP-MEPs, since PWs from many ingress ports can enter an LSP=A0 and t= herefore the LSP can't start on the ingress interface.

=A0

I think this depends on implementations.<= u>

Any RFC don't restrict to DOWN-MEPs i= n an LSP.

=A0

Anyway, MEP mechanism is out of scope in = this draft as you said.

=A0

Thanks,

Hideki Endo

=A0

>Hi,

>=A0

>Although I mentioned I am Ok with the= draft to be advanced to RFC, but after reviewing it in more details it app= ears that the draft, in spite of its name, does talk about UP-MEP at all and only talks about UP-MIP, while the figures show UP-MEPs = for LSPs.=A0 Even if the scope of the draft is UP-MIP, considering that the= re can't be a MIP without a MEP,=A0 the draft should have some wording = regarding UP-MEPs and their applicability to LSPs and PWs. I would also argue that LSPs can't have UP-MEPs, sinc= e PWs from many ingress ports can enter an LSP=A0 and therefore the LSP can= 't start on the ingress interface.

>=A0

>A quick fix at this point is to menti= on UP-MEP is out of scope and change the figures to only show Down-MEPs. A = better fix is to elaborate on UP-MEP and its applicability and placement, etc.

>=A0

>Regards,

>Shahram

>=A0

>

>=A0

>-----Original Message-----<= /u>

>Shahram Davari

>Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2013 11:30= AM

>To: Loa Andersson; mpls@ietf.org=

>Subject: Re: [mpls] 2nd working group= last call on

>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map=

>=A0

>My Comments are addressed and I suppo= rt this draft to be published as Informational=A0 RFC.=

>=A0

>Thx

>Shahram

>=A0

>-----Original Message-----<= /u>

>Loa Andersson

>Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 3:02= AM

>Subject: [mpls] 2nd working group las= t call on

>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map=

>=A0

>Working Group,

>=A0

>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05.txt= has been updated after a previous

>last call, due to the nature a and ex= tent of the updates we have chosen

>to start a 2nd wg last call.

>=A0

>The IETF datatracker status page for = this draft is:

>=A0

>There's also a htmlized version a= vailable at:

>=A0

>A diff from the previous version is a= vailable at:

>=A0

>Please send your comments, including = approval of the documents and the

>updates to the mpls working group lis= t (mpls@ietf.org)=

>=A0

>This working group last call ends Mar= ch 13, 2013.

>=A0

>/Loa

>for the MPLS working group co-chairs<= u>

>--

>=A0

>=A0

>Loa Andersson=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 email: loa@mail01.huawe= i.com

>Senior MPLS Expert=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 loa@pi.nu<= /span>

>Huawei Technologies (consult)=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 phone: +46 739 81 21 64

>_____________________________________= __________

>mpls mailing list

>=A0

>=A0

>_____________________________________= __________

>mpls mailing list

>=A0

>=A0

>_____________________________________= __________

>mpls mailing list

>=A0

=A0

=A0

_________________________________________= ______

mpls mailing list

=A0


_______________________________________________
mpls mailing list
mpls@ietf.org
ht= tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls


--14dae9cdc487af28a704d7e61fb9-- From hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com Thu Mar 14 10:55:20 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C555211E80E9 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 10:55:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.09 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.09 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_JP=1.244, HOST_EQ_JP=1.265, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ACw4wEJMcTK8 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 10:55:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail7.hitachi.co.jp (mail7.hitachi.co.jp [133.145.228.42]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C805D21F87E7 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 10:55:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mlsv3.hitachi.co.jp (unknown [133.144.234.166]) by mail7.hitachi.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7CDB37AC4; Fri, 15 Mar 2013 02:55:13 +0900 (JST) Received: from mfilter03.hitachi.co.jp by mlsv3.hitachi.co.jp (8.13.1/8.13.1) id r2EHtDEG010826; Fri, 15 Mar 2013 02:55:13 +0900 Received: from vshuts01.hitachi.co.jp (vshuts01.hitachi.co.jp [10.201.6.83]) by mfilter03.hitachi.co.jp (Switch-3.3.4/Switch-3.3.4) with ESMTP id r2EHtCvw024697; Fri, 15 Mar 2013 02:55:13 +0900 Received: from gmml25.itg.hitachi.co.jp (unknown [158.213.165.145]) by vshuts01.hitachi.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85C8A2F0050; Fri, 15 Mar 2013 02:55:12 +0900 (JST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] by gmml25.itg.hitachi.co.jp (AIX5.2/8.11.6p2/8.11.0) id r2EHtCt13414624; Fri, 15 Mar 2013 02:55:12 +0900 Message-Type: Multiple Part MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii To: From: Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2013 02:55:01 +0900 References: <512C960E.70109@pi.nu> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD962A2@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broa> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9AAF4@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broa> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9AB6D@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broa> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF11206FBD5@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9BA48@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broa> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9BDE1@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broa> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9BE7E@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broa> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9C4A2@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broa> Priority: normal Importance: normal X400-Content-Identifier: X51420EE800000M X400-MTS-Identifier: [/C=JP/ADMD=HITNET/PRMD=HITACHI/;gmml281303150254483D2] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: mpls@ietf.org, mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org, mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org, draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org Subject: Re: [mpls] On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE:2ndworkin X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 17:55:20 -0000 Sharam, What's reason to change? Again, currently, there is no RFC restricting to DOWN-MEP as you know. And, the fugure in our draft is just example. Here, what I'd like to make clear is that our draft focuses on only MIP targetting framework. This means MEP definition is out of scope in our darft, but should be in RFC6371. If you want to add/remove something to/from MEP definition, you should talk with the authors of RFC6371. If there is one reason for me to change the fugure in our draft, Down-MEP may be more popular than Up-MEP. Normally, An example should be described using the most popular case. If you say so, it is possible to consider to change. Thanks, Hideki Endo >I just asked that the figures in mip-mep-map draft be changed to Down-MEP, instead of UP-MEP. > >Thx >SD > >-----Original Message----- >From: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com [mailto:hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com] >Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2013 4:00 AM >To: Shahram Davari >Cc: gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org >Subject: Re:RE: Re:RE: Re:RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls]2ndworking grou > >Sharam, > >I'm not sure what you want to do. > >Currently, there is no RFC restricting to DOWN-MEP as you know, >which means that there is no consensus on the restriction in MPLS WG. > >If you want to standardize the restriction, >what you should do is to submit new draft to make a consensus. > >IMO, considering future extention, >unnecessary restriction MUST NOT be defined at this point. > >Thanks, >Hideki Endo > > >>Hideki, >> >>The question is if the span of PWs and the LSP are the same (they start and end on same interface), then what is the point of monitoring the LSP? You can just monitor the PW. >> >>And I completely disagree that just because something is possible it has to be standardized. We need simple methods that are as generic as possible in standards. LSP UPMEP in my opinion adds a lot of complexity for not much apparent gain. >> >>Thx >>Shahram >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com [mailto:hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com] >>Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 3:47 PM >>To: Shahram Davari >>Cc: gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org >>Subject: Re:RE: Re:RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2ndworking grouplast >> >>Sharam, >> >>Yes niche, but possible. >> >>If there are any possibilities, >>we MUST NOT preclude the possibilities in an international standard. >> >>Thanks, >>Hideki Endo >> >> >>>Hideki, >>> >>>Correct, but such LSP that can only accept packets from a single interface is very niche application and not generic enough to define an UPMEP for it. We need a definition that is applicable to LSPs in general. >>> >>>Thx >>>SD >>> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com [mailto:hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com] >>>Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 3:31 PM >>>To: Shahram Davari >>>Cc: gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org >>>Subject: Re:RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working grouplast call o >>> >>>Sharam, >>> >>>Very simple question. >>> >>>>Assume there are 2 ingress interfaces A & B. Each interface maps Ethernet traffic >>>>to its own PW (PW-A and PW-B). Now assume both these PWs go inside the same LSP that exists Interface C. >>>Why is this assumption mandatory? >>> >>>"Assume there are 1 ingress interfaces A. Two VLAN flows in the interface A are mapped >>> to different PWs (PW-A and PW-B). Now assume both these PWs go inside the same LSP." >>>In this case, UP-MEP of the LSP can be at interface A, right? >>> >>>Thanks, >>>Hideki Endo >>> >>> >>>>Greg, >>>> >>>>RFC6371 is very high level and does not define whether UP MEP applies to LSP or PW. Assume there are 2 ingress interfaces A & B. Each interface maps Ethernet traffic to its own PW (PW-A and PW-B). Now assume both these PWs go inside the same LSP that exists Interface C. Now please explain if we were to have an UP-MEP for LSP then on which interface would that LSP UP-MEP reside? Interface A? B? C? >>>> >>>>This simple example shows you can't have an LSP UP-MEP. >>>> >>>>Thx >>>>SD >>>> >>>>From: Gregory Mirsky [mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com] >>>>Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:56 AM >>>>To: Shahram Davari; hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com >>>>Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org >>>>Subject: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working group last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) >>>> >>>>Dear All, >>>>What would be the most appropriate subject to continue this discussion? I'll give it a try, please feel free to change it. >>>> >>>>I think that there's nothing that can preclude from supporting UP MEP on MPLS-TP LSP, according to UP MEP definition of RFC 6371, even when multpiple PWs mapped to that LSP. Same, I think, is the true for p2mp PW. Note that service, VPWS, is not part of MPLS-TP architecture. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Greg >>>> >>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Shahram Davari >>>>Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:30 AM >>>>To: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com >>>>Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org >>>>Subject: Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map >>>> >>>>Hideki, >>>> >>>>So far no RFC or draft has talked about Down or UP MEP for LSPs. But if you think about it logically LSPs can't have UP-MEP because LSP can carry many PWs and each PW may enter the LSP from a different port/interface. PWs can have UP-MEP but only for P2P services (VPWS), otherwise they can't have UP-MEP either (same as LSP). >>>> >>>>My suggestion is to correct figures and change UP-MEPs to Down-MEPs for LSPs. Also to mention UP-MEP is out of scope. >>>> >>>>Thx >>>>SD >>>> >>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>From: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com [mailto:hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com] >>>>Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:20 AM >>>>To: Shahram Davari >>>>Cc: loa@pi.nu; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org >>>>Subject: Re:Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map >>>> >>>>Hi Shahram, >>>> >>>>Just one comment. >>>> >>>>>I would also argue that LSPs can't have UP-MEPs, since PWs from many ingress ports can enter an LSP and therefore the LSP can't start on the ingress interface. >>>> >>>>I think this depends on implementations. >>>>Any RFC don't restrict to DOWN-MEPs in an LSP. >>>> >>>>Anyway, MEP mechanism is out of scope in this draft as you said. >>>> >>>>Thanks, >>>>Hideki Endo >>>> >>>>>Hi, >>>>> >>>>>Although I mentioned I am Ok with the draft to be advanced to RFC, but after reviewing it in more details it appears that the draft, in spite of its name, does talk about UP-MEP at all and only talks about UP-MIP, while the figures show UP-MEPs for LSPs. Even if the scope of the draft is UP-MIP, considering that there can't be a MIP without a MEP, the draft should have some wording regarding UP-MEPs and their applicability to LSPs and PWs. I would also argue that LSPs can't have UP-MEPs, since PWs from many ingress ports can enter an LSP and therefore the LSP can't start on the ingress interface. >>>>> >>>>>A quick fix at this point is to mention UP-MEP is out of scope and change the figures to only show Down-MEPs. A better fix is to elaborate on UP-MEP and its applicability and placement, etc. >>>>> >>>>>Regards, >>>>>Shahram >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of >>>>>Shahram Davari >>>>>Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2013 11:30 AM >>>>>To: Loa Andersson; mpls@ietf.org >>>>>Cc: >; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; >>>>>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org >>>>>Subject: Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call on >>>>>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map >>>>> >>>>>My Comments are addressed and I support this draft to be published as Informational RFC. >>>>> >>>>>Thx >>>>>Shahram >>>>> >>>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of >>>>>Loa Andersson >>>>>Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 3:02 AM >>>>>To: mpls@ietf.org >>>>>Cc: >; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; >>>>>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org >>>>>Subject: [mpls] 2nd working group last call on >>>>>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map >>>>> >>>>>Working Group, >>>>> >>>>>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05.txt has been updated after a previous >>>>>last call, due to the nature a and extent of the updates we have chosen >>>>>to start a 2nd wg last call. >>>>> >>>>>The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: >>>>>https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map >>>>> >>>>>There's also a htmlized version available at: >>>>>http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05 >>>>> >>>>>A diff from the previous version is available at: >>>>>http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05 >>>>> >>>>>Please send your comments, including approval of the documents and the >>>>>updates to the mpls working group list (mpls@ietf.org) >>>>> >>>>>This working group last call ends March 13, 2013. >>>>> >>>>>/Loa >>>>>for the MPLS working group co-chairs >>>>>-- >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com >>>>>Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu >>>>>Huawei Technologies (consult) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>mpls mailing list >>>>>mpls@ietf.org >>>>>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>mpls mailing list >>>>>mpls@ietf.org >>>>>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>mpls mailing list >>>>>mpls@ietf.org >>>>>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>mpls mailing list >>>>mpls@ietf.org >>>>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > > > From davari@broadcom.com Thu Mar 14 11:01:23 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 943741F0D0F for ; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 11:01:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id emaB9Wm0Ah1v for ; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 11:01:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mms2.broadcom.com (mms2.broadcom.com [216.31.210.18]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51C631F0D09 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 11:01:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.16.192.232] by mms2.broadcom.com with ESMTP (Broadcom SMTP Relay (Email Firewall v6.5)); Thu, 14 Mar 2013 10:57:00 -0700 X-Server-Uuid: 4500596E-606A-40F9-852D-14843D8201B2 Received: from SJEXCHCAS03.corp.ad.broadcom.com (10.16.203.9) by SJEXCHHUB02.corp.ad.broadcom.com (10.16.192.232) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.2.247.2; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 11:01:09 -0700 Received: from SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com ( [fe80::bc15:c1e1:c29a:36f7]) by SJEXCHCAS03.corp.ad.broadcom.com ( [::1]) with mapi id 14.01.0438.000; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 11:00:48 -0700 From: "Shahram Davari" To: "hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com" Thread-Topic: Re:RE: Re:RE: Re:RE: Re:RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE:[mpls]2ndworkin Thread-Index: AQHOIN0euuxKjen5vkGF2M+Jt+TmBZileL1Q Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 18:00:48 +0000 Message-ID: <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9C565@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> References: <512C960E.70109@pi.nu> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD962A2@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broa> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9AAF4@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broa> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9AB6D@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broa> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF11206FBD5@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9BA48@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broa> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9BDE1@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broa> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9BE7E@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broa> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9C4A2@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broa> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.16.203.100] MIME-Version: 1.0 X-WSS-ID: 7D5CD0E03C01960317-01-01 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , "mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE:2ndworkin X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 18:01:23 -0000 Heidi, That is exactly my point. Since there is no argument about Down-MEP and eve= ryone agrees Down-MEP LSP is possible and most useful and applies to any ap= plication, then I suggest changing UP-MEPs in your figures to Down-MEPs.=20 My concern is that if in future someone writes a draft about Down-MEP and U= P-MEP for PW and LSP and the decision is not to have LSP UP_MEP, then your = RFC will require change. Thanks Shahram -----Original Message----- From: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com [mailto:hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com]=20 Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2013 10:55 AM To: Shahram Davari Cc: gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org;= draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org Subject: Re:RE: Re:RE: Re:RE: Re:RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE:[mpl= s]2ndworkin Sharam, What's reason to change? Again, currently, there is no RFC restricting to DOWN-MEP as you know. And, the fugure in our draft is just example. Here, what I'd like to make clear is that our draft focuses on only MIP targetting framework. This means MEP definition is out of scope in our darft, but should be in RFC6371. If you want to add/remove something to/from MEP definition, you should talk with the authors of RFC6371. If there is one reason for me to change the fugure in our draft, Down-MEP may be more popular than Up-MEP. Normally, An example should be described using the most popular case. If you say so, it is possible to consider to change. Thanks, Hideki Endo >I just asked that the figures in mip-mep-map draft be changed to Down-MEP,= instead of UP-MEP. > >Thx >SD > >-----Original Message----- >From: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com [mailto:hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com]=20 >Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2013 4:00 AM >To: Shahram Davari >Cc: gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org= ; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org >Subject: Re:RE: Re:RE: Re:RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls]2nd= working grou > >Sharam, > >I'm not sure what you want to do. > >Currently, there is no RFC restricting to DOWN-MEP as you know, >which means that there is no consensus on the restriction in MPLS WG. > >If you want to standardize the restriction, >what you should do is to submit new draft to make a consensus. > >IMO, considering future extention, >unnecessary restriction MUST NOT be defined at this point. > >Thanks, >Hideki Endo > > >>Hideki, >> >>The question is if the span of PWs and the LSP are the same (they start a= nd end on same interface), then what is the point of monitoring the LSP? Yo= u can just monitor the PW.=20 >> >>And I completely disagree that just because something is possible it has = to be standardized. We need simple methods that are as generic as possible = in standards. LSP UPMEP in my opinion adds a lot of complexity for not much= apparent gain.=20 >> >>Thx >>Shahram=20 >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com [mailto:hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com]=20 >>Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 3:47 PM >>To: Shahram Davari >>Cc: gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.or= g; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org >>Subject: Re:RE: Re:RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2ndworki= ng grouplast >> >>Sharam, >> >>Yes niche, but possible. >> >>If there are any possibilities, >>we MUST NOT preclude the possibilities in an international standard. >> >>Thanks, >>Hideki Endo >> >> >>>Hideki, >>> >>>Correct, but such LSP that can only accept packets from a single interfa= ce is very niche application and not generic enough to define an UPMEP for = it. We need a definition that is applicable to LSPs in general. >>> >>>Thx >>>SD >>> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com [mailto:hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com]=20 >>>Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 3:31 PM >>>To: Shahram Davari >>>Cc: gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.o= rg; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org >>>Subject: Re:RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working gr= ouplast call o >>> >>>Sharam, >>> >>>Very simple question. >>> >>>>Assume there are 2 ingress interfaces A & B. Each interface maps Ethern= et traffic >>>>to its own PW (PW-A and PW-B). Now assume both these PWs go inside the = same LSP that exists Interface C.=20 >>>Why is this assumption mandatory? >>> >>>"Assume there are 1 ingress interfaces A. Two VLAN flows in the interfac= e A are mapped >>> to different PWs (PW-A and PW-B). Now assume both these PWs go inside t= he same LSP." >>>In this case, UP-MEP of the LSP can be at interface A, right? >>> >>>Thanks, >>>Hideki Endo >>> >>> >>>>Greg, >>>> >>>>RFC6371 is very high level and does not define whether UP MEP applies t= o LSP or PW. Assume there are 2 ingress interfaces A & B. Each interface m= aps Ethernet traffic to its own PW (PW-A and PW-B). Now assume both these P= Ws go inside the same LSP that exists Interface C. Now please explain if we= were to have an UP-MEP for LSP then on which interface would that LSP UP-M= EP reside? Interface A? B? C? >>>> >>>>This simple example shows you can't have an LSP UP-MEP. >>>> >>>>Thx >>>>SD >>>> >>>>From: Gregory Mirsky [mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com] >>>>Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:56 AM >>>>To: Shahram Davari; hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com >>>>Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-m= ep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org >>>>Subject: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working group la= st call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) >>>> >>>>Dear All, >>>>What would be the most appropriate subject to continue this discussion?= I'll give it a try, please feel free to change it. >>>> >>>>I think that there's nothing that can preclude from supporting UP MEP o= n MPLS-TP LSP, according to UP MEP definition of RFC 6371, even when multpi= ple PWs mapped to that LSP. Same, I think, is the true for p2mp PW. Note t= hat service, VPWS, is not part of MPLS-TP architecture. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Greg >>>> >>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-= bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Shahram Davari >>>>Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:30 AM >>>>To: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com >>>>Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.= org; mpls-ads@tools.i= etf.org >>>>Subject: Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mi= p-mep-map >>>> >>>>Hideki, >>>> >>>>So far no RFC or draft has talked about Down or UP MEP for LSPs. But if= you think about it logically LSPs can't have UP-MEP because LSP can carry = many PWs and each PW may enter the LSP from a different port/interface. PW= s can have UP-MEP but only for P2P services (VPWS), otherwise they can't ha= ve UP-MEP either (same as LSP). >>>> >>>>My suggestion is to correct figures and change UP-MEPs to Down-MEPs for= LSPs. Also to mention UP-MEP is out of scope. >>>> >>>>Thx >>>>SD >>>> >>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>From: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com [ma= ilto:hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com] >>>>Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:20 AM >>>>To: Shahram Davari >>>>Cc: loa@pi.nu; mpls@ietf.org; m= pls-ads@tools.ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.i= etf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@= tools.ietf.org >>>>Subject: Re:Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp= -mip-mep-map >>>> >>>>Hi Shahram, >>>> >>>>Just one comment. >>>> >>>>>I would also argue that LSPs can't have UP-MEPs, since PWs from many i= ngress ports can enter an LSP and therefore the LSP can't start on the ing= ress interface. >>>> >>>>I think this depends on implementations. >>>>Any RFC don't restrict to DOWN-MEPs in an LSP. >>>> >>>>Anyway, MEP mechanism is out of scope in this draft as you said. >>>> >>>>Thanks, >>>>Hideki Endo >>>> >>>>>Hi, >>>>> >>>>>Although I mentioned I am Ok with the draft to be advanced to RFC, but= after reviewing it in more details it appears that the draft, in spite of = its name, does talk about UP-MEP at all and only talks about UP-MIP, while = the figures show UP-MEPs for LSPs. Even if the scope of the draft is UP-MI= P, considering that there can't be a MIP without a MEP, the draft should h= ave some wording regarding UP-MEPs and their applicability to LSPs and PWs.= I would also argue that LSPs can't have UP-MEPs, since PWs from many ingre= ss ports can enter an LSP and therefore the LSP can't start on the ingress= interface. >>>>> >>>>>A quick fix at this point is to mention UP-MEP is out of scope and cha= nge the figures to only show Down-MEPs. A better fix is to elaborate on UP-= MEP and its applicability and placement, etc. >>>>> >>>>>Regards, >>>>>Shahram >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls= -bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of >>>>>Shahram Davari >>>>>Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2013 11:30 AM >>>>>To: Loa Andersson; mpls@ietf.org >>>>>Cc: >; mpls-ch= airs@tools.ietf.org; >>>>>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org >>>>>Subject: Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call on >>>>>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map >>>>> >>>>>My Comments are addressed and I support this draft to be published as = Informational RFC. >>>>> >>>>>Thx >>>>>Shahram >>>>> >>>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls= -bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of >>>>>Loa Andersson >>>>>Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 3:02 AM >>>>>To: mpls@ietf.org >>>>>Cc: >; mpls-ch= airs@tools.ietf.org; >>>>>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org >>>>>Subject: [mpls] 2nd working group last call on >>>>>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map >>>>> >>>>>Working Group, >>>>> >>>>>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05.txt has been updated after a previou= s >>>>>last call, due to the nature a and extent of the updates we have chose= n >>>>>to start a 2nd wg last call. >>>>> >>>>>The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: >>>>>https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map >>>>> >>>>>There's also a htmlized version available at: >>>>>http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05 >>>>> >>>>>A diff from the previous version is available at: >>>>>http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05 >>>>> >>>>>Please send your comments, including approval of the documents and the >>>>>updates to the mpls working group list (mpls@ietf.org) >>>>> >>>>>This working group last call ends March 13, 2013. >>>>> >>>>>/Loa >>>>>for the MPLS working group co-chairs >>>>>-- >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com >>>>>Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu >>>>>Huawei Technologies (consult) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>mpls mailing list >>>>>mpls@ietf.org >>>>>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>mpls mailing list >>>>>mpls@ietf.org >>>>>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>mpls mailing list >>>>>mpls@ietf.org >>>>>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>mpls mailing list >>>>mpls@ietf.org >>>>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > > > From gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com Thu Mar 14 11:11:50 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EBF6E11E818B for ; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 11:11:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2d1P6bj5UtgM for ; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 11:11:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usevmg21.ericsson.net (usevmg21.ericsson.net [198.24.6.65]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F1E111E8144 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 11:11:49 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c6180641-b7faf6d00000096b-33-514212e41349 Received: from EUSAAHC007.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [147.117.188.93]) by usevmg21.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id F4.F9.02411.4E212415; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 19:11:49 +0100 (CET) Received: from EUSAAMB103.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.120]) by EUSAAHC007.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.93]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.004; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 14:11:48 -0400 From: Gregory Mirsky To: Shahram Davari , "hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com" Thread-Topic: Re:RE: Re:RE: Re:RE: Re:RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE:[mpls]2ndworkin Thread-Index: AQHOIN0euvQEJFP+XkyjsXi/XHAU25ilvQoA//+9qYA= Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 18:11:47 +0000 Message-ID: <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF112070ACF@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> References: <512C960E.70109@pi.nu> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD962A2@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broa> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9AAF4@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broa> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9AB6D@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broa> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF11206FBD5@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9BA48@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broa> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9BDE1@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broa> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9BE7E@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broa> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9C4A2@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broa> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9C565@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> In-Reply-To: <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9C565@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [147.117.188.134] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFnrDLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyuXRPrO5TIadAgxUPuSzW93paNN86y25x /ct7JoslLzvYLb5fWsJicWvpSlYHNo9Z98+yebSeWcPisWTJTyaPL5c/swWwRHHZpKTmZJal FunbJXBlHOl/zlrwKrviy8bl7A2M96O6GDk5JARMJOYt3MAEYYtJXLi3nq2LkYtDSOAIo8Tu WV9ZIZzljBKX21Yzg1SxCRhJvNjYww5iiwikSszu62cDsZkFfjFKbL2kB2ILC8RIvH3czwJR Eyux6FYfG4RtJfG79TCYzSKgKrH9/ENGEJtXwFti/8SVzBDL5rJLbDvyFuwkToFwiY4j88EG MQKd9/3UGiaIZeISt57MhzpbQGLJnvPMELaoxMvH/1ghbGWJJU/2s0DU60gs2P0J6lBtiWUL XzNDLBaUODnzCcsERrFZSMbOQtIyC0nLLCQtCxhZVjFylBanluWmGxluYgTG2DEJNscdjAs+ WR5ilOZgURLnDXW9ECAkkJ5YkpqdmlqQWhRfVJqTWnyIkYmDU6qBcfWHF1xb5jqyMjt68jVU Kq3+n7Z412PeLyyvVHkb79daMGTtY0rpM1jLqmi08Bt7k63+1yuu+5jd5rcodM6wnBagWHz1 tXeP9broULkboVOs8xbOTxULTNn85m3y+cUmP6QPrnoVxvC+N26Rws7b3S/f/MuRTf/BeTK+ Pu3RiyvpMYpXiv6kK7EUZyQaajEXFScCAGj9KHJ/AgAA Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , "mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE:2ndworkin X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 18:11:51 -0000 Hi Shahram, I can not agree with your characterization "... everyone agrees Down-MEP LS= P is ... most useful ...". I'll note that for Ethernet OAM Down MEP suggest= ed for physical level, i.e. link layer, while Up MEP used for service level= . I agree with Pablo and will re-state expressed in the beginning Up and Do= wn MEP are related to monitored object, not to clients of such object. Regards, Greg -----Original Message----- From: Shahram Davari [mailto:davari@broadcom.com]=20 Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2013 11:01 AM To: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com Cc: Gregory Mirsky; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-m= pls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org Subject: RE: Re:RE: Re:RE: Re:RE: Re:RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE:= [mpls]2ndworkin Heidi, That is exactly my point. Since there is no argument about Down-MEP and eve= ryone agrees Down-MEP LSP is possible and most useful and applies to any ap= plication, then I suggest changing UP-MEPs in your figures to Down-MEPs.=20 My concern is that if in future someone writes a draft about Down-MEP and U= P-MEP for PW and LSP and the decision is not to have LSP UP_MEP, then your = RFC will require change. Thanks Shahram -----Original Message----- From: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com [mailto:hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com] Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2013 10:55 AM To: Shahram Davari Cc: gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org;= draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org Subject: Re:RE: Re:RE: Re:RE: Re:RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE:[mpl= s]2ndworkin Sharam, What's reason to change? Again, currently, there is no RFC restricting to DOWN-MEP as you know. And, the fugure in our draft is just example. Here, what I'd like to make clear is that our draft focuses on only MIP tar= getting framework. This means MEP definition is out of scope in our darft, but should be in RF= C6371. If you want to add/remove something to/from MEP definition, you should talk= with the authors of RFC6371. If there is one reason for me to change the fugure in our draft, Down-MEP m= ay be more popular than Up-MEP. Normally, An example should be described using the most popular case. If you say so, it is possible to consider to change. Thanks, Hideki Endo >I just asked that the figures in mip-mep-map draft be changed to Down-MEP,= instead of UP-MEP. > >Thx >SD > >-----Original Message----- >From: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com [mailto:hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com] >Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2013 4:00 AM >To: Shahram Davari >Cc: gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com; mpls@ietf.org;=20 >mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org;=20 >draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org >Subject: Re:RE: Re:RE: Re:RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE:=20 >[mpls]2ndworking grou > >Sharam, > >I'm not sure what you want to do. > >Currently, there is no RFC restricting to DOWN-MEP as you know, which=20 >means that there is no consensus on the restriction in MPLS WG. > >If you want to standardize the restriction, what you should do is to=20 >submit new draft to make a consensus. > >IMO, considering future extention, >unnecessary restriction MUST NOT be defined at this point. > >Thanks, >Hideki Endo > > >>Hideki, >> >>The question is if the span of PWs and the LSP are the same (they start a= nd end on same interface), then what is the point of monitoring the LSP? Yo= u can just monitor the PW.=20 >> >>And I completely disagree that just because something is possible it has = to be standardized. We need simple methods that are as generic as possible = in standards. LSP UPMEP in my opinion adds a lot of complexity for not much= apparent gain.=20 >> >>Thx >>Shahram >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com [mailto:hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com] >>Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 3:47 PM >>To: Shahram Davari >>Cc: gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com; mpls@ietf.org;=20 >>mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org;=20 >>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org >>Subject: Re:RE: Re:RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls]=20 >>2ndworking grouplast >> >>Sharam, >> >>Yes niche, but possible. >> >>If there are any possibilities, >>we MUST NOT preclude the possibilities in an international standard. >> >>Thanks, >>Hideki Endo >> >> >>>Hideki, >>> >>>Correct, but such LSP that can only accept packets from a single interfa= ce is very niche application and not generic enough to define an UPMEP for = it. We need a definition that is applicable to LSPs in general. >>> >>>Thx >>>SD >>> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com [mailto:hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com] >>>Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 3:31 PM >>>To: Shahram Davari >>>Cc: gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com; mpls@ietf.org;=20 >>>mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org;=20 >>>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org;=20 >>>mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org >>>Subject: Re:RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working=20 >>>grouplast call o >>> >>>Sharam, >>> >>>Very simple question. >>> >>>>Assume there are 2 ingress interfaces A & B. Each interface maps=20 >>>>Ethernet traffic to its own PW (PW-A and PW-B). Now assume both these P= Ws go inside the same LSP that exists Interface C. >>>Why is this assumption mandatory? >>> >>>"Assume there are 1 ingress interfaces A. Two VLAN flows in the=20 >>>interface A are mapped to different PWs (PW-A and PW-B). Now assume bot= h these PWs go inside the same LSP." >>>In this case, UP-MEP of the LSP can be at interface A, right? >>> >>>Thanks, >>>Hideki Endo >>> >>> >>>>Greg, >>>> >>>>RFC6371 is very high level and does not define whether UP MEP applies t= o LSP or PW. Assume there are 2 ingress interfaces A & B. Each interface m= aps Ethernet traffic to its own PW (PW-A and PW-B). Now assume both these P= Ws go inside the same LSP that exists Interface C. Now please explain if we= were to have an UP-MEP for LSP then on which interface would that LSP UP-M= EP reside? Interface A? B? C? >>>> >>>>This simple example shows you can't have an LSP UP-MEP. >>>> >>>>Thx >>>>SD >>>> >>>>From: Gregory Mirsky [mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com] >>>>Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:56 AM >>>>To: Shahram Davari; hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com >>>>Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org;=20 >>>>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org;=20 >>>>mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org >>>>Subject: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working group=20 >>>>last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) >>>> >>>>Dear All, >>>>What would be the most appropriate subject to continue this discussion?= I'll give it a try, please feel free to change it. >>>> >>>>I think that there's nothing that can preclude from supporting UP MEP o= n MPLS-TP LSP, according to UP MEP definition of RFC 6371, even when multpi= ple PWs mapped to that LSP. Same, I think, is the true for p2mp PW. Note t= hat service, VPWS, is not part of MPLS-TP architecture. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Greg >>>> >>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org=20 >>>>[mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Shahram Davari >>>>Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:30 AM >>>>To: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com >>>>Cc: mpls@ietf.org;=20 >>>>mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org;=20 >>>>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org>>>-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org>;=20 >>>>mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org >>>>Subject: Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call=20 >>>>ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map >>>> >>>>Hideki, >>>> >>>>So far no RFC or draft has talked about Down or UP MEP for LSPs. But if= you think about it logically LSPs can't have UP-MEP because LSP can carry = many PWs and each PW may enter the LSP from a different port/interface. PW= s can have UP-MEP but only for P2P services (VPWS), otherwise they can't ha= ve UP-MEP either (same as LSP). >>>> >>>>My suggestion is to correct figures and change UP-MEPs to Down-MEPs for= LSPs. Also to mention UP-MEP is out of scope. >>>> >>>>Thx >>>>SD >>>> >>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>From: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com=20 >>>>[mailto:hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com] >>>>Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:20 AM >>>>To: Shahram Davari >>>>Cc: loa@pi.nu;=20 >>>>mpls@ietf.org;=20 >>>>mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org;=20 >>>>mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org;=20 >>>>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org>>>-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org> >>>>Subject: Re:Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call=20 >>>>ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map >>>> >>>>Hi Shahram, >>>> >>>>Just one comment. >>>> >>>>>I would also argue that LSPs can't have UP-MEPs, since PWs from many i= ngress ports can enter an LSP and therefore the LSP can't start on the ing= ress interface. >>>> >>>>I think this depends on implementations. >>>>Any RFC don't restrict to DOWN-MEPs in an LSP. >>>> >>>>Anyway, MEP mechanism is out of scope in this draft as you said. >>>> >>>>Thanks, >>>>Hideki Endo >>>> >>>>>Hi, >>>>> >>>>>Although I mentioned I am Ok with the draft to be advanced to RFC, but= after reviewing it in more details it appears that the draft, in spite of = its name, does talk about UP-MEP at all and only talks about UP-MIP, while = the figures show UP-MEPs for LSPs. Even if the scope of the draft is UP-MI= P, considering that there can't be a MIP without a MEP, the draft should h= ave some wording regarding UP-MEPs and their applicability to LSPs and PWs.= I would also argue that LSPs can't have UP-MEPs, since PWs from many ingre= ss ports can enter an LSP and therefore the LSP can't start on the ingress= interface. >>>>> >>>>>A quick fix at this point is to mention UP-MEP is out of scope and cha= nge the figures to only show Down-MEPs. A better fix is to elaborate on UP-= MEP and its applicability and placement, etc. >>>>> >>>>>Regards, >>>>>Shahram >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org=20 >>>>>[mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Shahram Davari >>>>>Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2013 11:30 AM >>>>>To: Loa Andersson; mpls@ietf.org >>>>>Cc: >;=20 >>>>>mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; >>>>>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org>>>>s-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org> >>>>>Subject: Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call on=20 >>>>>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map >>>>> >>>>>My Comments are addressed and I support this draft to be published as = Informational RFC. >>>>> >>>>>Thx >>>>>Shahram >>>>> >>>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org=20 >>>>>[mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Loa Andersson >>>>>Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 3:02 AM >>>>>To: mpls@ietf.org >>>>>Cc: >;=20 >>>>>mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; >>>>>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org>>>>s-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org> >>>>>Subject: [mpls] 2nd working group last call on=20 >>>>>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map >>>>> >>>>>Working Group, >>>>> >>>>>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05.txt has been updated after a=20 >>>>>previous last call, due to the nature a and extent of the updates=20 >>>>>we have chosen to start a 2nd wg last call. >>>>> >>>>>The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: >>>>>https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map >>>>> >>>>>There's also a htmlized version available at: >>>>>http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05 >>>>> >>>>>A diff from the previous version is available at: >>>>>http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05 >>>>> >>>>>Please send your comments, including approval of the documents and=20 >>>>>the updates to the mpls working group list=20 >>>>>(mpls@ietf.org) >>>>> >>>>>This working group last call ends March 13, 2013. >>>>> >>>>>/Loa >>>>>for the MPLS working group co-chairs >>>>>-- >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com >>>>>Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu >>>>>Huawei Technologies (consult) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>mpls mailing list >>>>>mpls@ietf.org >>>>>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>mpls mailing list >>>>>mpls@ietf.org >>>>>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>mpls mailing list >>>>>mpls@ietf.org >>>>>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>mpls mailing list >>>>mpls@ietf.org >>>>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > > > From davari@broadcom.com Thu Mar 14 11:20:30 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0E1C21F8DA2 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 11:20:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jP8EW56m-z93 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 11:20:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mms1.broadcom.com (mms1.broadcom.com [216.31.210.17]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F348A11E812B for ; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 11:20:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.16.192.232] by mms1.broadcom.com with ESMTP (Broadcom SMTP Relay (Email Firewall v6.5)); Thu, 14 Mar 2013 11:17:31 -0700 X-Server-Uuid: 06151B78-6688-425E-9DE2-57CB27892261 Received: from SJEXCHCAS07.corp.ad.broadcom.com (10.16.203.17) by SJEXCHHUB02.corp.ad.broadcom.com (10.16.192.232) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.2.247.2; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 11:20:15 -0700 Received: from SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com ( [fe80::bc15:c1e1:c29a:36f7]) by SJEXCHCAS07.corp.ad.broadcom.com ( [::1]) with mapi id 14.01.0438.000; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 11:20:05 -0700 From: "Shahram Davari" To: "Gregory Mirsky" , "hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com" Thread-Topic: Re:RE: Re:RE: Re:RE: Re:RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE:[mpls]2ndworkin Thread-Index: AQHOIN0euuxKjen5vkGF2M+Jt+TmBZileL1QgAB5qYD//4xWoA== Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 18:20:05 +0000 Message-ID: <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9C5DB@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> References: <512C960E.70109@pi.nu> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD962A2@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broa> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9AAF4@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broa> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9AB6D@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broa> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF11206FBD5@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9BA48@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broa> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9BDE1@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broa> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9BE7E@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broa> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9C4A2@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broa> <4A6CE49E6084B141B15C0713B8993F281BD9C565@SJEXCHMB12.corp.ad.broadcom.com> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF112070ACF@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> In-Reply-To: <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF112070ACF@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.16.203.100] MIME-Version: 1.0 X-WSS-ID: 7D5CCBB10BG1879009-02-01 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , "mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE:2ndworkin X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 18:20:30 -0000 Hi, In any case I am not convinced about the possibility or usefulness of an UP= -MEP LSP. So I categorize it as controversial. Due to this reason I am aski= ng it to be removed from this draft before I vote yes to this last call. Thx SD -----Original Message----- From: Gregory Mirsky [mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com]=20 Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2013 11:12 AM To: Shahram Davari; hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-m= ap@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org Subject: RE: Re:RE: Re:RE: Re:RE: Re:RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE:= [mpls]2ndworkin Hi Shahram, I can not agree with your characterization "... everyone agrees Down-MEP LS= P is ... most useful ...". I'll note that for Ethernet OAM Down MEP suggest= ed for physical level, i.e. link layer, while Up MEP used for service level= . I agree with Pablo and will re-state expressed in the beginning Up and Do= wn MEP are related to monitored object, not to clients of such object. Regards, Greg -----Original Message----- From: Shahram Davari [mailto:davari@broadcom.com]=20 Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2013 11:01 AM To: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com Cc: Gregory Mirsky; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-m= pls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org Subject: RE: Re:RE: Re:RE: Re:RE: Re:RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE:= [mpls]2ndworkin Heidi, That is exactly my point. Since there is no argument about Down-MEP and eve= ryone agrees Down-MEP LSP is possible and most useful and applies to any ap= plication, then I suggest changing UP-MEPs in your figures to Down-MEPs.=20 My concern is that if in future someone writes a draft about Down-MEP and U= P-MEP for PW and LSP and the decision is not to have LSP UP_MEP, then your = RFC will require change. Thanks Shahram -----Original Message----- From: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com [mailto:hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com] Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2013 10:55 AM To: Shahram Davari Cc: gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com; mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org;= draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org Subject: Re:RE: Re:RE: Re:RE: Re:RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE:[mpl= s]2ndworkin Sharam, What's reason to change? Again, currently, there is no RFC restricting to DOWN-MEP as you know. And, the fugure in our draft is just example. Here, what I'd like to make clear is that our draft focuses on only MIP tar= getting framework. This means MEP definition is out of scope in our darft, but should be in RF= C6371. If you want to add/remove something to/from MEP definition, you should talk= with the authors of RFC6371. If there is one reason for me to change the fugure in our draft, Down-MEP m= ay be more popular than Up-MEP. Normally, An example should be described using the most popular case. If you say so, it is possible to consider to change. Thanks, Hideki Endo >I just asked that the figures in mip-mep-map draft be changed to Down-MEP,= instead of UP-MEP. > >Thx >SD > >-----Original Message----- >From: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com [mailto:hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com] >Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2013 4:00 AM >To: Shahram Davari >Cc: gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com; mpls@ietf.org;=20 >mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org;=20 >draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org >Subject: Re:RE: Re:RE: Re:RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE:=20 >[mpls]2ndworking grou > >Sharam, > >I'm not sure what you want to do. > >Currently, there is no RFC restricting to DOWN-MEP as you know, which=20 >means that there is no consensus on the restriction in MPLS WG. > >If you want to standardize the restriction, what you should do is to=20 >submit new draft to make a consensus. > >IMO, considering future extention, >unnecessary restriction MUST NOT be defined at this point. > >Thanks, >Hideki Endo > > >>Hideki, >> >>The question is if the span of PWs and the LSP are the same (they start a= nd end on same interface), then what is the point of monitoring the LSP? Yo= u can just monitor the PW.=20 >> >>And I completely disagree that just because something is possible it has = to be standardized. We need simple methods that are as generic as possible = in standards. LSP UPMEP in my opinion adds a lot of complexity for not much= apparent gain.=20 >> >>Thx >>Shahram >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com [mailto:hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com] >>Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 3:47 PM >>To: Shahram Davari >>Cc: gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com; mpls@ietf.org;=20 >>mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org;=20 >>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org; mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org >>Subject: Re:RE: Re:RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls]=20 >>2ndworking grouplast >> >>Sharam, >> >>Yes niche, but possible. >> >>If there are any possibilities, >>we MUST NOT preclude the possibilities in an international standard. >> >>Thanks, >>Hideki Endo >> >> >>>Hideki, >>> >>>Correct, but such LSP that can only accept packets from a single interfa= ce is very niche application and not generic enough to define an UPMEP for = it. We need a definition that is applicable to LSPs in general. >>> >>>Thx >>>SD >>> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com [mailto:hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com] >>>Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 3:31 PM >>>To: Shahram Davari >>>Cc: gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com; mpls@ietf.org;=20 >>>mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org;=20 >>>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org;=20 >>>mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org >>>Subject: Re:RE: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working=20 >>>grouplast call o >>> >>>Sharam, >>> >>>Very simple question. >>> >>>>Assume there are 2 ingress interfaces A & B. Each interface maps=20 >>>>Ethernet traffic to its own PW (PW-A and PW-B). Now assume both these P= Ws go inside the same LSP that exists Interface C. >>>Why is this assumption mandatory? >>> >>>"Assume there are 1 ingress interfaces A. Two VLAN flows in the=20 >>>interface A are mapped to different PWs (PW-A and PW-B). Now assume bot= h these PWs go inside the same LSP." >>>In this case, UP-MEP of the LSP can be at interface A, right? >>> >>>Thanks, >>>Hideki Endo >>> >>> >>>>Greg, >>>> >>>>RFC6371 is very high level and does not define whether UP MEP applies t= o LSP or PW. Assume there are 2 ingress interfaces A & B. Each interface m= aps Ethernet traffic to its own PW (PW-A and PW-B). Now assume both these P= Ws go inside the same LSP that exists Interface C. Now please explain if we= were to have an UP-MEP for LSP then on which interface would that LSP UP-M= EP reside? Interface A? B? C? >>>> >>>>This simple example shows you can't have an LSP UP-MEP. >>>> >>>>Thx >>>>SD >>>> >>>>From: Gregory Mirsky [mailto:gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com] >>>>Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:56 AM >>>>To: Shahram Davari; hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com >>>>Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org;=20 >>>>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org;=20 >>>>mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org >>>>Subject: On Up and Down MEP in MPLS-TP (RE: [mpls] 2nd working group=20 >>>>last call ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map) >>>> >>>>Dear All, >>>>What would be the most appropriate subject to continue this discussion?= I'll give it a try, please feel free to change it. >>>> >>>>I think that there's nothing that can preclude from supporting UP MEP o= n MPLS-TP LSP, according to UP MEP definition of RFC 6371, even when multpi= ple PWs mapped to that LSP. Same, I think, is the true for p2mp PW. Note t= hat service, VPWS, is not part of MPLS-TP architecture. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Greg >>>> >>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org=20 >>>>[mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Shahram Davari >>>>Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:30 AM >>>>To: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com >>>>Cc: mpls@ietf.org;=20 >>>>mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org;=20 >>>>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org>>>-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org>;=20 >>>>mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org >>>>Subject: Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call=20 >>>>ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map >>>> >>>>Hideki, >>>> >>>>So far no RFC or draft has talked about Down or UP MEP for LSPs. But if= you think about it logically LSPs can't have UP-MEP because LSP can carry = many PWs and each PW may enter the LSP from a different port/interface. PW= s can have UP-MEP but only for P2P services (VPWS), otherwise they can't ha= ve UP-MEP either (same as LSP). >>>> >>>>My suggestion is to correct figures and change UP-MEPs to Down-MEPs for= LSPs. Also to mention UP-MEP is out of scope. >>>> >>>>Thx >>>>SD >>>> >>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>From: hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com=20 >>>>[mailto:hideki.endo.es@hitachi.com] >>>>Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 11:20 AM >>>>To: Shahram Davari >>>>Cc: loa@pi.nu;=20 >>>>mpls@ietf.org;=20 >>>>mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org;=20 >>>>mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org;=20 >>>>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org>>>-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org> >>>>Subject: Re:Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call=20 >>>>ondraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map >>>> >>>>Hi Shahram, >>>> >>>>Just one comment. >>>> >>>>>I would also argue that LSPs can't have UP-MEPs, since PWs from many i= ngress ports can enter an LSP and therefore the LSP can't start on the ing= ress interface. >>>> >>>>I think this depends on implementations. >>>>Any RFC don't restrict to DOWN-MEPs in an LSP. >>>> >>>>Anyway, MEP mechanism is out of scope in this draft as you said. >>>> >>>>Thanks, >>>>Hideki Endo >>>> >>>>>Hi, >>>>> >>>>>Although I mentioned I am Ok with the draft to be advanced to RFC, but= after reviewing it in more details it appears that the draft, in spite of = its name, does talk about UP-MEP at all and only talks about UP-MIP, while = the figures show UP-MEPs for LSPs. Even if the scope of the draft is UP-MI= P, considering that there can't be a MIP without a MEP, the draft should h= ave some wording regarding UP-MEPs and their applicability to LSPs and PWs.= I would also argue that LSPs can't have UP-MEPs, since PWs from many ingre= ss ports can enter an LSP and therefore the LSP can't start on the ingress= interface. >>>>> >>>>>A quick fix at this point is to mention UP-MEP is out of scope and cha= nge the figures to only show Down-MEPs. A better fix is to elaborate on UP-= MEP and its applicability and placement, etc. >>>>> >>>>>Regards, >>>>>Shahram >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org=20 >>>>>[mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Shahram Davari >>>>>Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2013 11:30 AM >>>>>To: Loa Andersson; mpls@ietf.org >>>>>Cc: >;=20 >>>>>mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; >>>>>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org>>>>s-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org> >>>>>Subject: Re: [mpls] 2nd working group last call on=20 >>>>>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map >>>>> >>>>>My Comments are addressed and I support this draft to be published as = Informational RFC. >>>>> >>>>>Thx >>>>>Shahram >>>>> >>>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org=20 >>>>>[mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Loa Andersson >>>>>Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 3:02 AM >>>>>To: mpls@ietf.org >>>>>Cc: >;=20 >>>>>mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; >>>>>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org>>>>s-tp-mip-mep-map@tools.ietf.org> >>>>>Subject: [mpls] 2nd working group last call on=20 >>>>>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map >>>>> >>>>>Working Group, >>>>> >>>>>draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05.txt has been updated after a=20 >>>>>previous last call, due to the nature a and extent of the updates=20 >>>>>we have chosen to start a 2nd wg last call. >>>>> >>>>>The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: >>>>>https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map >>>>> >>>>>There's also a htmlized version available at: >>>>>http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05 >>>>> >>>>>A diff from the previous version is available at: >>>>>http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-mpls-tp-mip-mep-map-05 >>>>> >>>>>Please send your comments, including approval of the documents and=20 >>>>>the updates to the mpls working group list=20 >>>>>(mpls@ietf.org) >>>>> >>>>>This working group last call ends March 13, 2013. >>>>> >>>>>/Loa >>>>>for the MPLS working group co-chairs >>>>>-- >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com >>>>>Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu >>>>>Huawei Technologies (consult) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>mpls mailing list >>>>>mpls@ietf.org >>>>>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>mpls mailing list >>>>>mpls@ietf.org >>>>>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>mpls mailing list >>>>>mpls@ietf.org >>>>>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>mpls mailing list >>>>mpls@ietf.org >>>>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > > > From loa@pi.nu Thu Mar 14 11:26:37 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC1D911E81F4 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 11:26:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -100.398 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-100.398 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.650, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, RDNS_NONE=0.1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id di7HCVrALBbO for ; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 11:26:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.pi.nu (unknown [195.206.248.139]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EC6111E81B5 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 11:26:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [130.129.21.10] (dhcp-150a.meeting.ietf.org [130.129.21.10]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.pi.nu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 167007FE07; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 19:26:28 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <51421655.4020709@pi.nu> Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 19:26:29 +0100 From: Loa Andersson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130307 Thunderbird/17.0.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "mpls@ietf.org" , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv@tools.ietf.org, Martin Vigoureux Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [mpls] IPR poll on draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 18:26:37 -0000 Working Group and authors; The authors of draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv has indicated that the draft is ready working group last call. Since we never done an IPR poll on this draft we will do this before starting the working group last call to check whether there is IPR on the document that needs to be disclosed. This mail starts that IPR poll. Are you aware of any IPR that applies to draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping- ttl-tlv? If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details). If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond to this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any relevant IPR. *The response needs to be sent to the MPLS wg mailing list.* The documents will not advance to the next stage until a response has been received from each author and contributor. If you are on the MPLS WG email list but are not listed as an author or contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules. Thanks, Loa (as MPLS WG co-chair) -- Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu Huawei Technologies (consult) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 From aldrin.ietf@gmail.com Thu Mar 14 11:34:31 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A37C621F90DA for ; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 11:34:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JzGpp-RGEWsO for ; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 11:34:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pb0-f51.google.com (mail-pb0-f51.google.com [209.85.160.51]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4B2E21F90D3 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 11:34:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pb0-f51.google.com with SMTP id un15so2593903pbc.24 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 11:34:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date :cc:content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to:x-mailer; bh=q4EU6Dz7xih9jMH/yJrq6GG9SdQ7/IVrYHt1Hhqahp8=; b=YKe9XAj9JWSWALyUUDRx2/5mCXdEmhPzNZcSXsdBwr5sEUeWrMrulAAgqkR0vOv0Of VerFKhhYPyIQ1vwfBGxGYl4nJu0iAmyOxsHzmGK1bGtJS3tBYG7ejblH/8cVLnveq110 2pVwJbvq+vo82LoasUg8F7yAhFjR+sUNNEEkyMTawpPrDxkKi6bymf/Z14ZIaQxU02oB hYKVqtw85V8w4tmozhMAmolccoBDloAEcJt3f/hMeTtbc2zMN8WdT+m8uznue0syYs2s 0HhYgRo19Ei3LYrC6xBLQm6n9RWxzMxS/Gvnv5BSjJgrufKgCmTqb0CeAlQjHoBja48u m05A== X-Received: by 10.68.135.196 with SMTP id pu4mr8390238pbb.50.1363286070538; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 11:34:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2001:df8::16:d5cc:2f73:313d:b416? ([2001:df8:0:16:d5cc:2f73:313d:b416]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id mz8sm4451550pbc.9.2013.03.14.11.34.28 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 14 Mar 2013 11:34:29 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.2 \(1499\)) From: Sam Aldrin In-Reply-To: <51421655.4020709@pi.nu> Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 11:34:24 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <976D8E06-997E-41F9-986B-9A8C2036B857@gmail.com> References: <51421655.4020709@pi.nu> To: Loa Andersson X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1499) Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv@tools.ietf.org Subject: Re: [mpls] IPR poll on draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 18:34:31 -0000 None that I know (as co-author). cheers -sam On Mar 14, 2013, at 11:26 AM, Loa Andersson wrote: > Working Group and authors; >=20 > The authors of draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv has indicated > that the draft is ready working group last call. >=20 > Since we never done an IPR poll on this draft we will do this before > starting the working group last call to check whether there is IPR > on the document that needs to be disclosed. >=20 > This mail starts that IPR poll. >=20 > Are you aware of any IPR that applies to draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping- > ttl-tlv? >=20 > If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules > (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details). >=20 > If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond = to > this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any relevant > IPR. *The response needs to be sent to the MPLS wg mailing list.* The = documents will not advance to the next stage until a response > has been received from each author and contributor. >=20 > If you are on the MPLS WG email list but are not listed as an author = or > contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of = any > IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules. >=20 >=20 > Thanks, Loa > (as MPLS WG co-chair) > --=20 >=20 >=20 > Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com > Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu > Huawei Technologies (consult) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 From loa@pi.nu Thu Mar 14 12:18:12 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6BA8311E8126 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 12:18:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -100.615 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-100.615 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.433, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, RDNS_NONE=0.1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hU1T7hj85Msa for ; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 12:18:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.pi.nu (unknown [195.206.248.139]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF1C011E80F2 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 12:18:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [130.129.21.10] (dhcp-150a.meeting.ietf.org [130.129.21.10]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.pi.nu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1C31A7FE07; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 20:18:06 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <51422270.3080804@pi.nu> Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 20:18:08 +0100 From: Loa Andersson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130307 Thunderbird/17.0.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "mpls@ietf.org" , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , draft-ietf-mpls-targeted-mldp@tools.ietf.org, Martin Vigoureux Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [mpls] IPR poll for draft-ietf-mpls-targeted-mldp X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 19:18:12 -0000 Working Group and authors; The authors of draft-ietf-mpls-targeted-mldp has indicated that the draft is ready working group last call. Since we never done an IPR poll on this draft we will do this before starting the working group last call to check whether there is IPR on the document that needs to be disclosed. This mail starts that IPR poll. Are you aware of any IPR that applies to draft-ietf-mpls-targeted-mldp? If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details). If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond to this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any relevant IPR. *The response needs to be sent to the MPLS wg mailing list.* The documents will not advance to the next stage until a response has been received from each author and contributor. If you are on the MPLS WG email list but are not listed as an author or contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules. Thanks, Loa (as MPLS WG co-chair) -- Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu Huawei Technologies (consult) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 From mn1921@att.com Thu Mar 14 12:20:00 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3AA4911E8126 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 12:20:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zCCCUMeRNVg1 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 12:19:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nbfkord-smmo06.seg.att.com (nbfkord-smmo06.seg.att.com [209.65.160.94]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9171E11E80F2 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 12:19:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from unknown [144.160.20.145] (EHLO nbfkord-smmo06.seg.att.com) by nbfkord-smmo06.seg.att.com(mxl_mta-6.15.0-1) with ESMTP id fd222415.2aab00e5a940.267315.00-536.751232.nbfkord-smmo06.seg.att.com (envelope-from ); Thu, 14 Mar 2013 19:19:59 +0000 (UTC) X-MXL-Hash: 514222df15d1d80d-c3f30918544e45b28289c96b7b1dcf36d6bb701d Received: from unknown [144.160.20.145] (EHLO mlpd192.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com) by nbfkord-smmo06.seg.att.com(mxl_mta-6.15.0-1) over TLS secured channel with ESMTP id ed222415.0.267313.00-298.751214.nbfkord-smmo06.seg.att.com (envelope-from ); Thu, 14 Mar 2013 19:19:58 +0000 (UTC) X-MXL-Hash: 514222de69f3e10d-02cf7ae396765eee378746fa28d6e67f58869e43 Received: from enaf.sfdc.sbc.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mlpd192.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r2EJJvXW027196; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 15:19:58 -0400 Received: from alpi133.aldc.att.com (alpi133.aldc.att.com [130.8.217.3]) by mlpd192.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r2EJJmnk027092 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 14 Mar 2013 15:19:52 -0400 Received: from MISOUT7MSGHUB9A.ITServices.sbc.com (misout7msghub9a.itservices.sbc.com [144.151.223.62]) by alpi133.aldc.att.com (RSA Interceptor); Thu, 14 Mar 2013 19:19:36 GMT Received: from MISOUT7MSGUSR9I.ITServices.sbc.com ([144.151.223.56]) by MISOUT7MSGHUB9A.ITServices.sbc.com ([144.151.223.62]) with mapi id 14.02.0342.003; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 15:19:36 -0400 From: "NAPIERALA, MARIA H" To: Loa Andersson , "mpls@ietf.org" , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-mpls-targeted-mldp@tools.ietf.org" , Martin Vigoureux Thread-Topic: IPR poll for draft-ietf-mpls-targeted-mldp Thread-Index: AQHOIOivsIyKQLZE80mfVSRNToxqu5ilj9Pw Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 19:19:35 +0000 Message-ID: <1D70D757A2C9D54D83B4CBD7625FA80E0114B54E@MISOUT7MSGUSR9I.ITServices.sbc.com> References: <51422270.3080804@pi.nu> In-Reply-To: <51422270.3080804@pi.nu> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [135.70.19.230] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-RSA-Inspected: yes X-RSA-Classifications: public X-Spam: [F=0.2000000000; CM=0.500; S=0.200(2010122901)] X-MAIL-FROM: X-SOURCE-IP: [144.160.20.145] X-AnalysisOut: [v=2.0 cv=Fs6yCRXq c=1 sm=0 a=ZRNLZ4dFUbCvG8UMqPvVAA==:17 a] X-AnalysisOut: [=i-D4eiayz9cA:10 a=Rd9kFLIRbOYA:10 a=ofMgfj31e3cA:10 a=BLc] X-AnalysisOut: [eEmwcHowA:10 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=zQP7CpKOAAAA:8 a=XIqpo32R] X-AnalysisOut: [AAAA:8 a=N6QRg4d0vZQA:10 a=48vgC7mUAAAA:8 a=i0EeH86SAAAA:8] X-AnalysisOut: [ a=QVQk1NJBC84vSoD_t1AA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=lZB815dzVvQA] X-AnalysisOut: [:10] Subject: Re: [mpls] IPR poll for draft-ietf-mpls-targeted-mldp X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 19:20:00 -0000 No IPR I am aware of. Maria > -----Original Message----- > From: Loa Andersson [mailto:loa@pi.nu] > Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2013 3:18 PM > To: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls- > targeted-mldp@tools.ietf.org; Martin Vigoureux > Subject: IPR poll for draft-ietf-mpls-targeted-mldp >=20 > Working Group and authors; >=20 > The authors of draft-ietf-mpls-targeted-mldp has indicated > that the draft is ready working group last call. >=20 > Since we never done an IPR poll on this draft we will do this before > starting the working group last call to check whether there is IPR > on the document that needs to be disclosed. >=20 > This mail starts that IPR poll. >=20 > Are you aware of any IPR that applies to draft-ietf-mpls-targeted-mldp? >=20 > If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules > (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details). >=20 > If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond to > this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any relevant > IPR. *The response needs to be sent to the MPLS wg mailing list.* The > documents will not advance to the next stage until a response > has been received from each author and contributor. >=20 > If you are on the MPLS WG email list but are not listed as an author or > contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of > any > IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules. >=20 >=20 > Thanks, Loa > (as MPLS WG co-chair) > -- >=20 >=20 > Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com > Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu > Huawei Technologies (consult) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 From ssaxena@cisco.com Thu Mar 14 12:36:55 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1DF911E820A for ; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 12:36:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iUhizO7WzRI7 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 12:36:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-2.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-2.cisco.com [173.37.86.73]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E95111E81FD for ; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 12:36:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=1736; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1363289814; x=1364499414; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=yY+TpeZuLmxHmtlr+NTAXhESCuyPvfYcsD0j9HBkN08=; b=B6iV/NJgyk72W872XLl/njJtrEc4YgVegpqvOWzCgU77ZDRKGNOZyqQm dMBXKJ3TJIsDF6ne84JTZoQQ3/0fhEpMQctuB0s9t/vltVqm1/Sb7KFs4 j5n/yC4Mhw2o2MeRKAho1j4w5ArjmwdmvWY8plqQDHmfhqS1hehL5+ufu 8=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgEFAP0lQlGtJV2b/2dsb2JhbABDxQKBZRZ0gisBAQEEOjEDBgUMAgICAQgRBAEBCxQJBxsXFAkIAgQBDQUIiAzBcgSNURCBACYLBwaCWWEDp1qDCoFzNQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.84,846,1355097600"; d="scan'208";a="187563876" Received: from rcdn-core-4.cisco.com ([173.37.93.155]) by rcdn-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 14 Mar 2013 19:36:54 +0000 Received: from xhc-rcd-x08.cisco.com (xhc-rcd-x08.cisco.com [173.37.183.82]) by rcdn-core-4.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r2EJarYv012237 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Thu, 14 Mar 2013 19:36:53 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x06.cisco.com ([169.254.1.248]) by xhc-rcd-x08.cisco.com ([173.37.183.82]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.004; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 14:36:53 -0500 From: "Shaleen Saxena (ssaxena)" To: Loa Andersson , "mpls@ietf.org" , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv@tools.ietf.org" , Martin Vigoureux Thread-Topic: IPR poll on draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv Thread-Index: AQHOIOF2CXKrHb0i9kKo45DSnVcdz5illJ1g Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 19:36:53 +0000 Message-ID: <5942F95203B6A743BA212455F91E1B2F22E00F74@xmb-aln-x06.cisco.com> References: <51421655.4020709@pi.nu> In-Reply-To: <51421655.4020709@pi.nu> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [161.44.71.111] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "Shaleen Saxena \(ssaxena\)" Subject: Re: [mpls] IPR poll on draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 19:36:56 -0000 Hi Loa, No, there is no IPR that I am aware of. Regards, Shaleen -----Original Message----- From: Loa Andersson [mailto:loa@pi.nu]=20 Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2013 2:26 PM To: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl= -tlv@tools.ietf.org; Martin Vigoureux Subject: IPR poll on draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv Working Group and authors; The authors of draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ttl-tlv has indicated that the draf= t is ready working group last call. Since we never done an IPR poll on this draft we will do this before starti= ng the working group last call to check whether there is IPR on the documen= t that needs to be disclosed. This mail starts that IPR poll. Are you aware of any IPR that applies to draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping- ttl-tlv? If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules (see R= FCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details). If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond to thi= s email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any relevant IPR. *Th= e response needs to be sent to the MPLS wg mailing list.* The documents wil= l not advance to the next stage until a response has been received from eac= h author and contributor. If you are on the MPLS WG email list but are not listed as an author or con= tributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any IPR t= hat has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules. Thanks, Loa (as MPLS WG co-chair) --=20 Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu Huawei Technologies (consult) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 From loa@pi.nu Thu Mar 14 13:47:32 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5604E11E81B6 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 13:47:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -100.788 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-100.788 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.260, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, RDNS_NONE=0.1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GvyOF5Hq806j for ; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 13:47:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.pi.nu (unknown [195.206.248.139]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 984A511E814D for ; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 13:47:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [130.129.21.10] (dhcp-150a.meeting.ietf.org [130.129.21.10]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.pi.nu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3BEA17FE07; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 21:47:30 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <51423764.3070605@pi.nu> Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 21:47:32 +0100 From: Loa Andersson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130307 Thunderbird/17.0.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "mpls@ietf.org" , Henrik Levkowetz Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [mpls] starting to use the ID tracker for MPLS wg documents X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 20:47:32 -0000 Working Group, I and Martin sat down with Henrik earlier today. We have started to use the ID tracker for MPLS wg documents. One immediate consequence of this is that document authors started to receive mail from the "IETF Secretariat" saying that the state of their document has changed. The ID tracker is a good piece of engineering and most of time the changes you see are pretty straightforward. However there is one state "Call For Adoption By WG Issued" that is not very intuitive; it is not the same thing as what we call "Poll to see of we have consensus to make this a Working Group Document". It is the initial ID tracker state, and the meaning is rather - if this document belongs in IETF it belongs in the MPLS wg. We have talked with Henrik to add a new initial state; something like "Candidate Document" that signify that the document has found its working group and that we are prepared to start the process to see if there is support for the document in the working group. Please look at the new states at https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/mpls/ to see if your document seems to be in the right state. ID Exist - means that we have not started the process to make this a working group document Call For Adoption By WG Issued - means that this process has been started Adopted by a WG - means that it has been adopted as a working group document (this is a transitional state, as soon as the working group document is published the individual document disappears from the working group web page) WG Document - is the initial state of the of a working group document Waiting for WG Chair Go-Ahead - the document has been in some type of review and some pieces has to fall into place /Loa for the wg chairs -- Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu Huawei Technologies (consult) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 From kvivek@broadcom.com Thu Mar 14 21:55:21 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C232D21F91B0 for ; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 21:55:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DfPK2FPfbGUo for ; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 21:55:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mms2.broadcom.com (mms2.broadcom.com [216.31.210.18]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A69121F91AE for ; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 21:55:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.16.192.232] by mms2.broadcom.com with ESMTP (Broadcom SMTP Relay (Email Firewall v6.5)); Thu, 14 Mar 2013 21:51:01 -0700 X-Server-Uuid: 4500596E-606A-40F9-852D-14843D8201B2 Received: from SJEXCHCAS05.corp.ad.broadcom.com (10.16.203.13) by SJEXCHHUB02.corp.ad.broadcom.com (10.16.192.232) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.2.247.2; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 21:55:13 -0700 Received: from SJEXCHMB09.corp.ad.broadcom.com ( [fe80::3da7:665e:cc78:181f]) by SJEXCHCAS05.corp.ad.broadcom.com ( [::1]) with mapi id 14.01.0438.000; Thu, 14 Mar 2013 21:55:03 -0700 From: "Vivek Kumar" To: "kireeti.kompella@gmail.com" Thread-Topic: [mpls] Reserving extended special purpose labels Thread-Index: Ac4hOKlGDepwf9olSVyAPeVbCpouKg== Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2013 04:55:02 +0000 Message-ID: <3C086BA39C55B9418AE8FEA3F3EFDEC42AC5B2FE@SJEXCHMB09.corp.ad.broadcom.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.16.203.100] MIME-Version: 1.0 X-WSS-ID: 7D5C773F3C02308184-01-01 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] Reserving extended special purpose labels X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2013 04:55:21 -0000 Hi Kireeti, Just one clarification needed. Why not reserve label value in the range = 0-15 in the extended label space ? Regards, Vivek =20 Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 15:48:55 -0400 From: Kireeti Kompella To: mpls@ietf.org Subject: [mpls] Reserving extended special purpose labels Message-ID: <0B390473-1A62-48B5-B5CD-D727C5D96F28@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3Dus-ascii Hi All, In today's discussion, I noted the need to reserve (i.e., not allocate) som= e of the special purpose labels in the extended space. The primary reason t= o reserve special purpose label S is that an implementation interprets S in= dependent of the preceding label; an example is the ELI.=20 Please comment to the list or to an MPLS WG chair near you if you believe a= label in the range 0-14 should be reserved in the extended special purpose= label space.=20 Thanks, Kireeti From internet-drafts@ietf.org Fri Mar 15 15:21:20 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A26D1F0C74; Fri, 15 Mar 2013 15:21:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.432 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.432 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.168, BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mGrLjhZSNLuc; Fri, 15 Mar 2013 15:21:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A58B621F86B8; Fri, 15 Mar 2013 15:21:19 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 4.43 Message-ID: <20130315222119.13503.34143.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2013 15:21:19 -0700 Cc: mpls@ietf.org Subject: [mpls] I-D Action: draft-kompella-mpls-special-purpose-labels-02.txt X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2013 22:21:20 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director= ies. This draft is a work item of the Multiprotocol Label Switching Working Gro= up of the IETF. Title : Allocating and Retiring Special Purpose MPLS Labels Author(s) : Kireeti Kompella Loa Andersson Adrian Farrel Filename : draft-kompella-mpls-special-purpose-labels-02.txt Pages : 13 Date : 2013-03-15 Abstract: Some MPLS labels have been allocated for specific purposes. A block of labels (0-15) has been set aside to this end, and are commonly called "reserved labels". They will be called "special purpose labels" in this document. As there are only 16 of these labels, caution is needed in the allocation of new special purpose labels, yet at the same time allow forward progress when one is called for. This memo defines some procedures to follow in the allocation and retirement of special purpose labels, as well as a method to extend the special purpose label space. Finally, this memo renames the IANA registry for these labels to "Special Purpose MPLS Label Values", and creates a new one called the "Extended Special Purpose MPLS Label Values" registry. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-kompella-mpls-special-purpose-labels There's also a htmlized version available at: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-kompella-mpls-special-purpose-labels-02 A diff from the previous version is available at: http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-kompella-mpls-special-purpose-labe= ls-02 Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From koike.yoshinori@lab.ntt.co.jp Fri Mar 15 17:49:39 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 502B711E8105 for ; Fri, 15 Mar 2013 17:49:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.09 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.09 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_JP=1.244, HOST_EQ_JP=1.265] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cUlcokEXw3b2 for ; Fri, 15 Mar 2013 17:49:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tama500.ecl.ntt.co.jp (tama500.ecl.ntt.co.jp [129.60.39.148]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A77EE11E80F7 for ; Fri, 15 Mar 2013 17:49:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mfs6.rdh.ecl.ntt.co.jp (mfs6.rdh.ecl.ntt.co.jp [129.60.39.149]) by tama500.ecl.ntt.co.jp (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r2G0nS3j019172; Sat, 16 Mar 2013 09:49:28 +0900 Received: from mfs6.rdh.ecl.ntt.co.jp (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mfs6.rdh.ecl.ntt.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7EA4BE0169; Sat, 16 Mar 2013 09:49:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from imail3.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp (imail3.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp [129.60.5.248]) by mfs6.rdh.ecl.ntt.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 695F1E0168; Sat, 16 Mar 2013 09:49:28 +0900 (JST) Received: from [129.60.11.43] (koike-pc.nslab.ecl.ntt.co.jp [129.60.11.43]) by imail3.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r2G0nSGc031780; Sat, 16 Mar 2013 09:49:28 +0900 Message-ID: <5143C230.2080705@lab.ntt.co.jp> Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2013 09:52:00 +0900 From: Yoshinori Koike User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130307 Thunderbird/17.0.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "mpls@ietf.org" References: <5141E7EC.3090901@pi.nu> In-Reply-To: <5141E7EC.3090901@pi.nu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [mpls] working group last call on draft-ietf-mpls-tp-temporal-hitless-psm X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2013 00:49:39 -0000 Yes, support as a co-author. Best regards, Yoshinori (2013/03/15 0:08), Loa Andersson wrote: > Working Group, > > this is to start a two week Working Group last call on > draft-ietf-mpls-tp-temporal-hitless-psm-02.txt. > > Please send your comments to the mpls working group > mailing list (mpls@ietf.org). > > Please send both technical comments, and if you are happy > with the document as is also indications of support. > > There are no IPR claims against this draft. > > The co-authors have earlier stated that they are not aware > of any IPRs applicable to this draft. > > If anyone else in the working group are aware of IPRs claims against > this draft, the time to disclose that is now. > > This working group last call will end on April 2, 2013. > > /Loa > for the wg co-chairs -- Yoshinori Koike koike.yoshinori@lab.ntt.co.jp From curtis@occnc.com Sat Mar 16 12:12:51 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C608B21F8915 for ; Sat, 16 Mar 2013 12:12:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.495 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.495 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id I4D2DvvQ30gd for ; Sat, 16 Mar 2013 12:12:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gateway1.orleans.occnc.com (unknown [173.9.106.132]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DE6321F8861 for ; Sat, 16 Mar 2013 12:12:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from harbor1.ipv6.occnc.com (harbor1.ipv6.occnc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1545::2:819]) (authenticated bits=0) by gateway1.orleans.occnc.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r2GJBWi2081622; Sat, 16 Mar 2013 15:11:34 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from curtis@occnc.com) Message-Id: <201303161911.r2GJBWi2081622@gateway1.orleans.occnc.com> To: Tal Mizrahi From: Curtis Villamizar In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 12 Mar 2013 14:49:08 EDT." <201303121849.r2CIn882022072@gateway1.orleans.occnc.com> Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2013 15:11:31 -0400 Cc: mpls@ietf.org Subject: [mpls] fast-path in draft-villamizar-mpls-forwarding (was Re: Comments ...) X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: curtis@occnc.com List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2013 19:12:51 -0000 Tal, This is about one part of a thread that you started where I promised follow-up. In message <201303121849.r2CIn882022072@gateway1.orleans.occnc.com> Curtis Villamizar writes: > > In message <74470498B659FA4687F0B0018C19A89C01A0F9726814@IL-MB01.marvell.com> > Tal Mizrahi writes: > > > > Hi Curtis, > > Hi Tal, > > > Very interesting draft. I definitely think it is worth pursuing. > > Thank you for the comments. > > > Some comments below: > > > > 1. I think it is a good idea to describe the common practices of > > where you draw the line between hardware and software. However, > > as a chip vendor I do not feel comfortable with *mandating* what > > should be implemented in hardware. > > > > Terms like: "hardware should", "hardware MUST be capable of", or > > "MUST be recognized by hardware" are a bit harsh. > > > > In general, I suggest to relax the phrasing in a way that > > describes what typically is done in hardware, but does mandate > > what should be done in hardware. > > This is a very good comment. Just prior to the 01 version I went > through the use of the words SHOULD and MUST (with help from Shane) > and tried to do one of the following: > > 1. Find and existing RFC where SHOULD or MUST is already specified > and cite it as the source of the requirement (not applicable in > this case). > > 2. Change the wording to match SHOULD or MUST in an existing RFC. > The same as #1. > > 3. Clearly indicate a recommendation that is not required for > compliance but is required for some other reason such as > provider scalability needs but retain strong wording. > > 4. Just make a statement about common practice and reasons and > leave it at that. > > Any recommendation about implementing something in hardware should be > of the form #4, unless there is strong evidence that it cannot be > implemented without hardware support. Packet filtering or any other > operation that may have to run at line rate qualifies. > > This is similar to the argument almost two decades ago about whether > such things as packets with IP options, source routed packets, > IP fragmentation, etc, needed to be in hardware. In some cases you > could crash a router with too high a load of these so clearly these > all had to be implemented in hardware. > > If you would like to meet here at IETF the two of us can go through > each statement in the DoS and OAM sections and review the wording. If > so, we can take this off line (I'll send another email without the WG > on the Cc). > > If not, I will go through the wording and send a later reply. [trimmed rest of response] Since we didn't meet at IETF, I've taken this longish topic back to the list. Here are the recommendations regarding "fast-path". I added the following to the preview version as a result of the MPLS-RT request to define the scope up front. This is just one paragraph of that definition of scope. + Implementation details are a local matter and are out of + scope. Most interfaces today operate at 1 Gb/s or greater. + It is assumed that all forwarding operations are implemented + in specialized forwarding hardware rather than on a special + purpose processor. This is often referred to as "fast path" + and "slow path" processing. Some recommendations are made + regarding implemeting control or management plane + functionality in specialized hardware or with limited + assistance from specialized hardware. This advise is based on + expected control or management protocol loads and on the need + for denial of service (DoS) protection. The section you are referring to is "OAM and DoS Protection". The openning paragraph is: Denial of service (DoS) protection is an area requiring hardware support that is often overlooked or inadequately considered. Hardware assist is also needed for OAM, particularly the more demanding MPLS-TP OAM. Except for support of only the very slowest of interfaces, the above is true. It is probably true for even 10/100 Ethernet since the accompanying processors are often slow enough that a control plane DoS is possible at even these slow rates. Later the following statement is made. Used along, the compromise of a single node, including a small computer at a network operations center, could compromise an entire network. Implementations which send all G-ACh/GAL traffic directly to a routing engine CPU are subject to DoS attack as a result of such a compromise. That should be "used alone", referring to OOB only. This type of leveraged attack has occurred in other types of "firewalled" control planes. Still later: For very low speed interfaces cryptographic authentication can be performed by the general purpose CPU used as a routing engine. For all other cases, cryptographic hardware may be needed. For very high speed interfaces, even cryptographic hardware can be overwhelmed. This is true as stated. At the high end, you can either put more of your chip real estate and power budget into more and/or faster crypto engines, or front-end the crypto with more efficient alternate techniques. such as filtering. Later preferencing additional warnings: Some control and management protocols are often carried with payload traffic. This is commonly the case with BGP, T-LDP, and SNMP. It is often the case with RSVP-TE. Even when carried over G-ACh/GAL additional measures can reduce the potential for a minor breach to be leveraged to a full network attack. I don't think there is any issue with the technical validity of the above statements. GTSM is described. GTSM is specified as a filtering technique, with filtering applied to the TTL value. The following is advice stating a common (and effective) strategy. At the very minimum, packet filtering plus classification and use of multiple queues supporting rate limiting is needed for traffic that could potentially be sent to a general purpose CPU used as a routing engine. The first level of filtering only allows connections to be initiated from specific IP prefixes to specific destination ports and then preferably passes traffic directly to a cryptographic engine and/or rate limits. The second level of filtering passes connected traffic, such as TCP connections having received at least one authenticated SYN or having been locally initiated. The second level of filtering only passes traffic to specific address and port pairs to be checked for cryptographic authentication. The words "is needed" is used but "for traffic that could potentially be sent to a general purpose CPU used as a routing engine". The rest describes a strategy to protect against TCP SYN attack, even TCP SYN with crypto that could swamp the crypto hardware. Any such attack is reduced to a delay in getting a connection established, but once established, filtering does most of the work. This paragraph is intended to indicate that the packet must go to the crypto engine before hitting the main CPU for best results. The cryptographic authentication is generally the last resort in DoS attack mitigation. If a packet must be first sent to a general purpose CPU, then sent to a cryptographic engine, a DoS attack is possible on high speed interfaces. Only where hardware can identify a signature and the portion of packet covered by the signature is cryptographic authentication highly beneficial in protecting against DoS attacks. This paragraph simply states that full line rate crypto is hard at very fast line rates and small packets and isn't a good solution. For chips supporting multiple 100 Gb/s interfaces, only a very large number of parallel cryptographic engines can provide the processing capacity to handle a large scale DoS or distributed DoS (DDoS) attack. For many forwarding chips this much processing power requires significant chip real estate and power, and therefore reduces system space and power density. For this reason, cryptographic authentication is not considered a viable first line of defense. This paragraph talks about OOB and perimeter filtering as a better first line of defense. For some networks the first line of defense is some means of supporting OOB control and management traffic. In the past this OOB channel migh make use of overhead bits in SONET or OTN or a dedicated DWDM wavelength. G-ACh and GAL provide an alternative OOB mechanism which is independent of underlying layers. In other networks, including most IP/MPLS networks, perimeter filtering serves a similar purpose, though less effective without extreme vigilance. Finally additional lines of defense are described. A second line of defense is filtering, including GTSM. For protocols such as EBGP, GTSM and other filtering is often the first line of defense. Cryptographic authentication is usually the last line of defense and insufficient by itself to mitigate DoS or DDoS attacks. If you can help better word the above recommendations regarding DoS, please do so. There were no absolute requirements to do anything in particular in hardware though the option of doing everything on a general purpose CPU with no hardware assist for DoS is described (accurately) as infeasible when high speed interfaces are used. Even the bad option of attempting to put a lot of very fast crypto hardware is not prohibited, but discouraged due to the existance of less real estate and power hungry solutions. There are stronger wordings about fast-path (aka done in some form of hardware) for OAM. It is well known that ICMP, most IP options, and TTL expire has to be done in hardware. That was figured out the hard way in the early 1990s. There is brief mention of this (in RFC4950 context). The ICMP message generation can be implemented in forwarding hardware, but if sent to a general purpose CPU must be rate limited to avoid a potential denial or service (DoS) attack. Later: Both BFD and LSP Ping MUST be recognized by hardware and at the very minimum forwarded to the main CPU. Hardware assistance for BFD is often provided and is considered necessary for relatively high rate proactive monitoring. Both BFD and LSP Ping MUST be recognized in any filtering prior to passing traffic to a general purpose CPU and appropriate DoS protection applied (see <"DoS Protection" section>). Failure to recognize BFD and LSP Ping and at least rate limit creates the potential for misconfiguration to cause outages rather than cause errors in the misconfigured OAM. This could be softenned, but the best it can say is that if a network is not to be exposed to a OAM misconfiguration or a single breach in the NOC potentially leveraging a substantial denial of service, then hardware assist is needed. It does say that the minimum is to filter and rate limit before sending to the CPU. Do you disagree with the above paragraph? Would you like it to be worded better? Next is PW VCCV. No further advice on fast-path is given there. Last is MPLS-TP OAM. It has a few statements about hardware. For fast RDI initiation, RDI SHOULD be initiated and handled by hardware if BFD is handled in forwarding hardware. That is a "SHOULD" and it contains an important "if". Alarm Reporting [RFC6427] describes the details of a new protocol supporting Alarm Indication Signal (AIS), Link Down Indication, and fault management. This functionality SHOULD be supported in forwarding hardware on high speed interfaces. Perhaps the reasoning can be given here, replacing the "SHOULD" with the consequences (slow AIS, LDI, fault management which are specified as being fast). Loopback of packet traffic SHOULD be implemented in forwarding hardware on high speed interfaces. I hope no one disagrees with the statement above. Regarding DM and LM: [...] This capture and insertion MUST be implemented in forwarding hardware for LM OAM to be sufficiently accurate. [...] This timestamp capture and insertion MUST be implemented in forwarding hardware for DM OAM to be sufficiently accurate. It is clear that DM and direct LM can't be accurate unless implemented in hardware. Finally for OAM: CC-CV and alarm reporting is tied to protection and therefore SHOULD be supported in forwarding hardware in order to provide protection for a large number of affected LSP within target response intervals. Since CC-CV is supported by BFD, for MPLS-TP, BFD SHOULD be supported in forwarding hardware. Next is layer-2 OAM interworking. This functionality SHOULD be supported in forwarding hardware. An MPLS OAM implementation SHOULD interwork with the underlying server layer and provide a means to interwork with a client layer. For high speed interfaces, this interworking SHOULD be supported in forwarding hardware. This one is a SHOULD and thought to be evident. If the layer-2 OAM already must be in hardware, and the MPLS OAM needs fast response in some cases, then it makes sense. I could explain further. I can rewrite all of the above without the use of SHOULD and MUST instead stating what the conquences would be. The text would get even longer than it is right now. Keeping it short was the reason to just state SHOULD and MUST. The next section is "Extent of OAM Support by Hardware" and it tries to summarize the advice. Perhaps here we could clarify that advice is given based on known consequences and that failure to provide support or assistance in hardware may be at one's own peril, whether at the chip, system, or deployment. The document might become a little longer if each "for reason X .." followed by SHOULD or MUST is replaced with "Y is the common practice" and "the consequences of not doing so is X". I have no objection to doing that type of rewording. Would the type of rewording described above be sufficient, or do you have any technical objections to the advice given? Curtis ps- also note - spelling and grammar nits are abundant. I'll spell check before the next iteration (02) comes out and try to check for grammar. Right now focus is content. From erosen@cisco.com Mon Mar 18 09:54:01 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A4A221F8A51 for ; Mon, 18 Mar 2013 09:54:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id n5pVgkDq8Ee1 for ; Mon, 18 Mar 2013 09:53:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-6.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-6.cisco.com [173.37.86.77]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A60121F896D for ; Mon, 18 Mar 2013 09:53:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=36; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1363625625; x=1364835225; h=to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:reply-to:date:message-id:from; bh=93ATJCr6oL1XOu84sRne0vAzdth5Z0yrsN0eeLCRzSU=; b=Kdxz+qBxVvvtWkp2elqZa3hzfEpB2PUAsNeuhejtwY2/DyUGKO8ggwoM XNyboJPEOkdcoggIyzpDfzv1iwM0COmd3rHaiIp23Kqqy/XDKpuFlDWx8 7ZAxcTWv1ja4Ynr65I16QSX8++MXV877ahOmma3SX52RJBmLZdRIU5ZbJ U=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.84,865,1355097600"; d="scan'208";a="188705923" Received: from rcdn-core-2.cisco.com ([173.37.93.153]) by rcdn-iport-6.cisco.com with ESMTP; 18 Mar 2013 16:53:43 +0000 Received: from erosen-linux.cisco.com (erosen-linux.cisco.com [161.44.70.34]) by rcdn-core-2.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r2IGrff6001850 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 18 Mar 2013 16:53:42 GMT Received: from erosen-linux (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by erosen-linux.cisco.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r2IGrce0006686; Mon, 18 Mar 2013 12:53:39 -0400 To: Loa Andersson In-reply-to: Your message of Thu, 14 Mar 2013 20:18:08 +0100. <51422270.3080804@pi.nu> Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2013 12:53:38 -0400 Message-ID: <6685.1363625618@erosen-linux> From: Eric Rosen Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , draft-ietf-mpls-targeted-mldp@tools.ietf.org Subject: Re: [mpls] IPR poll for draft-ietf-mpls-targeted-mldp X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: erosen@cisco.com List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2013 16:54:01 -0000 Not aware of any applicable IPR. From erosen@cisco.com Mon Mar 18 11:05:49 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9764E21F8FA7 for ; Mon, 18 Mar 2013 11:05:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dG2Xw4ISgkKM for ; Mon, 18 Mar 2013 11:05:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mtv-iport-3.cisco.com (mtv-iport-3.cisco.com [173.36.130.14]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9905421F8F00 for ; Mon, 18 Mar 2013 11:05:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=2676; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1363629924; x=1364839524; h=to:subject:reply-to:date:message-id:from; bh=RbKL6nr5as241SMRCBF9GfBuyX84pEKOXzxE/5zyOxM=; b=aCRcLoJIP+rERI3wI/asqo/S8uyCLn5S6Df/4+M4rJoa/txHigYUep+o 5mkQ/rtzFNzBnJ4zjVo+oZLBKYBTUgQV0GNgYkaCOP9dJ8JlceHUzX36r gNWlISkUblkl885oIoapOsvlOGRwiyB+lLekrqMFEgN9gSUGV4jpVOVzI s=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.84,865,1355097600"; d="scan'208";a="73356038" Received: from mtv-core-1.cisco.com ([171.68.58.6]) by mtv-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 18 Mar 2013 18:05:24 +0000 Received: from erosen-linux.cisco.com (erosen-linux.cisco.com [161.44.70.34]) by mtv-core-1.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r2II5N5t012970 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 18 Mar 2013 18:05:24 GMT Received: from erosen-linux (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by erosen-linux.cisco.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r2II5MEC010027; Mon, 18 Mar 2013 14:05:22 -0400 To: MPLS Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2013 14:05:22 -0400 Message-ID: <10026.1363629922@erosen-linux> From: Eric Rosen Subject: [mpls] comments on draft-kompella-mpls-special-purpose-labels-02 X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: erosen@cisco.com List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2013 18:05:49 -0000 A few comments: - The extended special purpose label space has about a million possible values (16 - 1048559), with an allocation policy of "standards action". This encourages squatting on "unofficial" codepoints while discouraging the publication of non-standards-track drafts describing the use of those codepoints. I think it would be better to have a much smaller piece of the label space to be allocated under the "standards action" policy. - With a large extended special purpose label space, why do we need a process for reusing deprecated (non-extended) special purpose label values? Especially when we already know that "IETF-wide surveys" don't necessarily determine correctly whether some feature is actually in use somewhere. - "an arbitrary string of consecutive extension labels is legal, and semantically equivalent to a single extension label" I don't see the sense of this. It will only lead to interoperability issues when some implementation puts in lots of extraneous labels and some other implementation can't handle it properly (as mentioned in the Security Considerations). - Section 3, point 4, on the possible use of codepoint 3, doesn't seem to make any change to existing process or usage. I'm not sure why it is even in the document. - The fact that every special purpose label has a corresponding extended special purpose label seems problematic to me. Suppose some implementation decides that when it needs to push "IPv4 explicit null" on a packet, it is always going to use the extended special purpose label. This seems perfectly legal, but will not interoperate with other implementations that understand "IPv4 explicit null" but that don't support the extended special purpose label space. - From section 3.1: An extension label MUST be followed by another label L (and thus MUST have the bottom-of-stack bit clear). L MUST be interpreted as an "extended special purpose label" from a new registry created by this document (see Section 5). Whether or not L has the bottom-of-stack bit set depends on whether other labels follow L. Only L is interpreted as an extended special purpose label; labels following L are interpreted as normal. If all labels following a special purpose label "are interpreted as normal", it follows that there can only be one special purpose label in the stack. I don't think that's the intention. Probably the final sentence should be "an extension label only affects the interpretation of the label immediately below it". From wivory@cisco.com Mon Mar 18 14:25:07 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E71E721F86EF for ; Mon, 18 Mar 2013 14:25:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wJ2iGOU1Yllk for ; Mon, 18 Mar 2013 14:25:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-9.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-9.cisco.com [173.37.86.80]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 783A321F86C1 for ; Mon, 18 Mar 2013 14:25:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=3886; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1363641906; x=1364851506; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:references:in-reply-to: content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=7b2zeuheqYpvtriugOIt5+QMiX7j8iBN48kBw90tdN8=; b=Gcig5satqehvbJrv1xqwG8pIN2n5qIKpyPA9YmL+N9s5DtDwwPaCLipv WUz9RQbW6mVrNa4vqTS8dZEB9maIFzAH14qRmF7OYg06AHgg6D8NIfV+v nPDwi13Ynn8mtzSB3pFr2dj/p1VSdpFLRaM1humIzuZL7MhWtgPimF6Ak 0=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgEFAHOFR1GtJV2Z/2dsb2JhbABDxTSBWxZ0giQBAQEEAQEBNzQXBAIBCBEEAQELFAkHJwsUCQgCBAESCIgMDMIhBI5fJhIGgllhA6dggwqCKA X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.84,867,1355097600"; d="scan'208";a="185819988" Received: from rcdn-core-2.cisco.com ([173.37.93.153]) by rcdn-iport-9.cisco.com with ESMTP; 18 Mar 2013 21:25:06 +0000 Received: from xhc-aln-x08.cisco.com (xhc-aln-x08.cisco.com [173.36.12.82]) by rcdn-core-2.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r2ILP5bC013942 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL) for ; Mon, 18 Mar 2013 21:25:06 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x03.cisco.com ([169.254.6.8]) by xhc-aln-x08.cisco.com ([173.36.12.82]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.004; Mon, 18 Mar 2013 16:25:05 -0500 From: "William Ivory (wivory)" To: "Eric Rosen (erosen)" , MPLS Thread-Topic: [mpls] comments on draft-kompella-mpls-special-purpose-labels-02 Thread-Index: AQHOJAM8qaELAe8FWUK38P43szWlcJir85nQ Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2013 21:25:04 +0000 Deferred-Delivery: Mon, 18 Mar 2013 21:25:00 +0000 Message-ID: References: <10026.1363629922@erosen-linux> In-Reply-To: <10026.1363629922@erosen-linux> Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.61.163.252] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [mpls] comments on draft-kompella-mpls-special-purpose-labels-02 X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2013 21:25:08 -0000 Hi Eric, Given you're also at Cisco, and given this would be my first post to the IE= TF MPLS list, I thought I'd run this past you first ... (-: Couple of poin= ts inline... >>-----Original Message----- >>From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of >>Eric Rosen (erosen) >>Sent: 18 March 2013 18:05 >>To: MPLS >>Subject: [mpls] comments on draft-kompella-mpls-special-purpose-labels-02 >> >>A few comments: >> >>- The extended special purpose label space has about a million possible >> values (16 - 1048559), with an allocation policy of "standards action". >> This encourages squatting on "unofficial" codepoints while discouraging >> the publication of non-standards-track drafts describing the use of tho= se >> codepoints. >> >> I think it would be better to have a much smaller piece of the label sp= ace >> to be allocated under the "standards action" policy. >> >>- With a large extended special purpose label space, why do we need a >> process for reusing deprecated (non-extended) special purpose label >> values? Especially when we already know that "IETF-wide surveys" don't >> necessarily determine correctly whether some feature is actually in use >> somewhere. Using extended labels increases packet size. This could cause unexpected i= ssues with MTU at pinch points in a network, and could also possibly lead t= o faster exhaustion of hardware resources as the extra labels will need to = be programmed in hardware. >> >>- "an arbitrary string of consecutive extension labels is legal, and >> semantically equivalent to a single extension label" >> >> I don't see the sense of this. It will only lead to interoperability >> issues when some implementation puts in lots of extraneous labels and s= ome >> other implementation can't handle it properly (as mentioned in the >> Security Considerations). Isn't it better to allow for an arbitrary number now, rather than only allo= w one now, then have to extend in future, and end up with devices in the ne= twork supporting all 3 possible levels of support (or lack of)? Thanks, William >> >>- Section 3, point 4, on the possible use of codepoint 3, doesn't seem to >> make any change to existing process or usage. I'm not sure why it is e= ven >> in the document. >> >>- The fact that every special purpose label has a corresponding extended >> special purpose label seems problematic to me. Suppose some >> implementation decides that when it needs to push "IPv4 explicit null" = on >> a packet, it is always going to use the extended special purpose label. >> This seems perfectly legal, but will not interoperate with other >> implementations that understand "IPv4 explicit null" but that don't >> support the extended special purpose label space. >> >>- From section 3.1: >> >> An extension label MUST be followed by another label L (and thus >> MUST have the bottom-of-stack bit clear). L MUST be interpreted >> as an "extended special purpose label" from a new registry >> created by this document (see Section 5). Whether or not L has >> the bottom-of-stack bit set depends on whether other labels >> follow L. Only L is interpreted as an extended special purpose >> label; labels following L are interpreted as normal. >> >> If all labels following a special purpose label "are interpreted as >> normal", it follows that there can only be one special purpose label in >> the stack. I don't think that's the intention. >> >> Probably the final sentence should be "an extension label only affects = the >> interpretation of the label immediately below it". >> >> >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>mpls mailing list >>mpls@ietf.org >>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls From wivory@cisco.com Mon Mar 18 14:28:26 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F081821F8900 for ; Mon, 18 Mar 2013 14:28:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PgjDIkGuPLrM for ; Mon, 18 Mar 2013 14:28:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-6.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-6.cisco.com [173.37.86.77]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2771921F8A0D for ; Mon, 18 Mar 2013 14:28:26 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=4605; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1363642106; x=1364851706; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:references:in-reply-to: content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=mkAYQ4ZLta1JFF1k8mBeH3t65R9GgKr1y9rh4gwW3P4=; b=SXaPgqPxTmmOX7zE+W4XqXeAwTFh3Gw4ckaxIi2HzK5NLu5QCdvjehY3 9HMHxH5+hRVc1YNL9AOnBGupzd5O4zZ1Z9KTkxDAVjBpXBCe57bcjDUR8 voqi5qppUVetN1E76xgbUdP+EHD9EweA0OP9K2KafBvx8MsfQIn4nV5S4 c=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgEFAHOFR1GtJV2Z/2dsb2JhbABDxTSBWxZ0giQBAQEEAQEBNzQXBAIBCBEEAQELFAkHJwsUCQgCBAESCIgMDMIhBI5fJhIGgllhA6dggwqCKA X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.84,867,1355097600"; d="scan'208";a="188812921" Received: from rcdn-core-2.cisco.com ([173.37.93.153]) by rcdn-iport-6.cisco.com with ESMTP; 18 Mar 2013 21:28:25 +0000 Received: from xhc-rcd-x13.cisco.com (xhc-rcd-x13.cisco.com [173.37.183.87]) by rcdn-core-2.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r2ILSPsF015834 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL) for ; Mon, 18 Mar 2013 21:28:25 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x03.cisco.com ([169.254.6.8]) by xhc-rcd-x13.cisco.com ([173.37.183.87]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.004; Mon, 18 Mar 2013 16:28:25 -0500 From: "William Ivory (wivory)" To: "Eric Rosen (erosen)" , MPLS Thread-Topic: [mpls] comments on draft-kompella-mpls-special-purpose-labels-02 Thread-Index: AQHOJAM8qaELAe8FWUK38P43szWlcJir85nQgAADAfA= Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2013 21:28:24 +0000 Deferred-Delivery: Mon, 18 Mar 2013 21:28:00 +0000 Message-ID: References: <10026.1363629922@erosen-linux> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.61.163.252] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [mpls] comments on draft-kompella-mpls-special-purpose-labels-02 X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2013 21:28:27 -0000 Oh well, guess I ran it past everyone. Points still stand I hope! William >>-----Original Message----- >>From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of >>William Ivory (wivory) >>Sent: 18 March 2013 21:25 >>To: Eric Rosen (erosen); MPLS >>Subject: Re: [mpls] comments on draft-kompella-mpls-special-purpose-label= s- >>02 >> >>Hi Eric, >> >>Given you're also at Cisco, and given this would be my first post to the = IETF >>MPLS list, I thought I'd run this past you first ... (-: Couple of point= s inline... >> >>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf >>>>Of Eric Rosen (erosen) >>>>Sent: 18 March 2013 18:05 >>>>To: MPLS >>>>Subject: [mpls] comments on >>>>draft-kompella-mpls-special-purpose-labels-02 >>>> >>>>A few comments: >>>> >>>>- The extended special purpose label space has about a million >>>>possible >>>> values (16 - 1048559), with an allocation policy of "standards action= ". >>>> This encourages squatting on "unofficial" codepoints while >>>>discouraging >>>> the publication of non-standards-track drafts describing the use of >>>>those >>>> codepoints. >>>> >>>> I think it would be better to have a much smaller piece of the label >>>> space to be allocated under the "standards action" policy. >>>> >>>>- With a large extended special purpose label space, why do we need a >>>> process for reusing deprecated (non-extended) special purpose label >>>> values? Especially when we already know that "IETF-wide surveys" >>>>don't >>>> necessarily determine correctly whether some feature is actually in >>>>use >>>> somewhere. >> >>Using extended labels increases packet size. This could cause unexpected >>issues with MTU at pinch points in a network, and could also possibly lea= d to >>faster exhaustion of hardware resources as the extra labels will need to = be >>programmed in hardware. >> >>>> >>>>- "an arbitrary string of consecutive extension labels is legal, and >>>> semantically equivalent to a single extension label" >>>> >>>> I don't see the sense of this. It will only lead to >>>> interoperability issues when some implementation puts in lots of >>>> extraneous labels and some other implementation can't handle it >>>> properly (as mentioned in the Security Considerations). >> >>Isn't it better to allow for an arbitrary number now, rather than only al= low one >>now, then have to extend in future, and end up with devices in the networ= k >>supporting all 3 possible levels of support (or lack of)? >> >>Thanks, >> >>William >> >>>> >>>>- Section 3, point 4, on the possible use of codepoint 3, doesn't seem >>>>to >>>> make any change to existing process or usage. I'm not sure why it >>>>is even >>>> in the document. >>>> >>>>- The fact that every special purpose label has a corresponding >>>>extended >>>> special purpose label seems problematic to me. Suppose some >>>> implementation decides that when it needs to push "IPv4 explicit >>>>null" on >>>> a packet, it is always going to use the extended special purpose labe= l. >>>> This seems perfectly legal, but will not interoperate with other >>>> implementations that understand "IPv4 explicit null" but that don't >>>> support the extended special purpose label space. >>>> >>>>- From section 3.1: >>>> >>>> An extension label MUST be followed by another label L (and thus >>>> MUST have the bottom-of-stack bit clear). L MUST be interpreted >>>> as an "extended special purpose label" from a new registry >>>> created by this document (see Section 5). Whether or not L has >>>> the bottom-of-stack bit set depends on whether other labels >>>> follow L. Only L is interpreted as an extended special purpose >>>> label; labels following L are interpreted as normal. >>>> >>>> If all labels following a special purpose label "are interpreted as >>>> normal", it follows that there can only be one special purpose label >>>> in the stack. I don't think that's the intention. >>>> >>>> Probably the final sentence should be "an extension label only >>>> affects the interpretation of the label immediately below it". >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>mpls mailing list >>>>mpls@ietf.org >>>>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls >>_______________________________________________ >>mpls mailing list >>mpls@ietf.org >>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls From erosen@cisco.com Tue Mar 19 10:03:05 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7142C21F8C7D for ; Tue, 19 Mar 2013 10:03:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XEVTgQX3Qw4z for ; Tue, 19 Mar 2013 10:03:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mtv-iport-3.cisco.com (mtv-iport-3.cisco.com [173.36.130.14]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 597B121F8CDF for ; Tue, 19 Mar 2013 10:03:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=2050; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1363712584; x=1364922184; h=to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:reply-to:date:message-id:from; bh=bA3GkWKhgyliNP9K42HpghOLnH6QReJXIdKIkJTsmRI=; b=DALSUzkzMGESuKRoDWYy4ipR7OTP7pGU08Kz1DlvxmnxLeI3rQLhjtLh csATxovB6sWhcL+U83J7FY9LrL+WbvRHEA6SCt1aFjehfXaFwlnbXDuHg hCvafFzjdEu/Z/sv0VzJqx6ldV3RKQRdHJpdBYBhwiffvhPcaWDLxcc1w g=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.84,872,1355097600"; d="scan'208";a="73474334" Received: from mtv-core-3.cisco.com ([171.68.58.8]) by mtv-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 19 Mar 2013 17:03:04 +0000 Received: from erosen-linux.cisco.com (erosen-linux.cisco.com [161.44.70.34]) by mtv-core-3.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r2JH33Mq026094 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 19 Mar 2013 17:03:03 GMT Received: from erosen-linux (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by erosen-linux.cisco.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r2JH32SU031964; Tue, 19 Mar 2013 13:03:02 -0400 To: "William Ivory (wivory)" In-reply-to: Your message of Mon, 18 Mar 2013 17:25:04 -0400. Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2013 13:03:02 -0400 Message-ID: <31963.1363712582@erosen-linux> From: Eric Rosen Cc: MPLS Subject: Re: [mpls] comments on draft-kompella-mpls-special-purpose-labels-02 X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: erosen@cisco.com List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2013 17:03:05 -0000 > Using extended labels increases packet size. This could cause unexpected > issues with MTU at pinch points in a network, Suppose one has a choice between (a) reusing a deprecated codepoint from the special purpose label space, and (b) using a new codepoint from the extended special purpose label space. The risk of (a) is that you later find that you have a customer with a legacy system that still uses the deprecated codepoint. The risk of (b) is that the label stack is 32 bits longer for each occurrence of the label, and this is the factor that pushes some packets over the MTU. IMHO, (b) is the much more cost-effective strategy. Lower risk, and lower cost to work around it if it happens. > and could also possibly lead to faster exhaustion of hardware resources as > the extra labels will need to be programmed in hardware. Even if we deprecated and reused every special purpose label from the non-extended space, that would only be 16 labels. I hope that 16 labels in the extended space will not exhaust the hardware resources. With regard to the issue of allowing an arbitrary number of "extension labels": > Isn't it better to allow for an arbitrary number now, rather than only > allow one now, then have to extend in future There will never be a need for an arbitrary number of extension labels, because the semantics of an arbitrary number of extension labels (according to the draft) is the same as the semantics of a single extension label. I wonder if there is a terminological issue here. An extended special purpose label is represented by a pair of contiguous label stack entries. The topmost entry of the pair is the "extension label" (label value 15), and the bottommost entry of the pair is a label from the extended special purpose registry. It should be possible to have an arbitrary number of such pairs in the label stack. But I don't see the value of having an arbitrary number of contiguous "15"s followed by a label from the extended special purpose registry. From wivory@cisco.com Wed Mar 20 05:25:46 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C6B521F863C for ; Wed, 20 Mar 2013 05:25:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pSyjwrlYHEl7 for ; Wed, 20 Mar 2013 05:25:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-5.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-5.cisco.com [173.37.86.76]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C065121F85A2 for ; Wed, 20 Mar 2013 05:25:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=3200; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1363782345; x=1364991945; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=brPwAMXy1cY+LcdJGlKWPiHi23bFsaRGKROA6SxSPNg=; b=D0PiYk+tIZSWmViAAUkGKmAGV3cqlvh1L7ah6m3l2z8TsaFonFQZVtZ2 IC4OyJ/OPKsub4jCVyaD7hJfLI78dWPW5/dc0jRDk3C+23l71IVyQ+uCw /kW9YQH5I1ZnOvcDfUcRGx3ZGhpugmB317/iCagTl38ykvsISO4rqLdJl U=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAFAB2qSVGtJXG+/2dsb2JhbABDxReBUBZ0giQBAQEEOj8MBAIBCBEEAQELFBAyHQgCBA4NiAzCNBeOXiYLBwaCWWEDp2KDCoIo X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.84,877,1355097600"; d="scan'208";a="189476573" Received: from rcdn-core2-3.cisco.com ([173.37.113.190]) by rcdn-iport-5.cisco.com with ESMTP; 20 Mar 2013 12:25:45 +0000 Received: from xhc-aln-x03.cisco.com (xhc-aln-x03.cisco.com [173.36.12.77]) by rcdn-core2-3.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r2KCPjYU017298 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL) for ; Wed, 20 Mar 2013 12:25:45 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x03.cisco.com ([169.254.6.8]) by xhc-aln-x03.cisco.com ([173.36.12.77]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.004; Wed, 20 Mar 2013 07:25:45 -0500 From: "William Ivory (wivory)" To: "Eric Rosen (erosen)" Thread-Topic: [mpls] comments on draft-kompella-mpls-special-purpose-labels-02 Thread-Index: AQHOJMOdqaELAe8FWUK38P43szWlcJiucwOQ Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 12:25:44 +0000 Deferred-Delivery: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 12:25:00 +0000 Message-ID: References: Your message of Mon, 18 Mar 2013 17:25:04 -0400. <31963.1363712582@erosen-linux> In-Reply-To: <31963.1363712582@erosen-linux> Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [144.254.153.51] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: MPLS Subject: Re: [mpls] comments on draft-kompella-mpls-special-purpose-labels-02 X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 12:25:46 -0000 >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Eric Rosen (erosen) >> Sent: 19 March 2013 17:03 >> To: William Ivory (wivory) >> Cc: Eric Rosen (erosen); MPLS >> Subject: Re: [mpls] comments on draft-kompella-mpls-special-purpose-labe= ls-02 >>=20 >>=20 >> > Using extended labels increases packet size. This could cause >> > unexpected issues with MTU at pinch points in a network, >>=20 >> Suppose one has a choice between (a) reusing a deprecated codepoint from= the special purpose >> label space, and (b) using a new codepoint from the extended special pur= pose label space. The >> risk of (a) is that you later find that you have a customer with a legac= y system that still uses the >> deprecated codepoint. The risk of (b) is that the label stack is 32 bit= s longer for each occurrence >> of the label, and this is the factor that pushes some packets over the M= TU. >>=20 >> IMHO, (b) is the much more cost-effective strategy. Lower risk, and low= er cost to work around it >> if it happens. []=20 >From my (admittedly short) experience of MPLS, MTU is a consistent problem = in the field. There's risk in both approaches, and while I'm happy if the = consensus is for (b), I think the possible impact on existing network confi= gurations should not be ignored. >>=20 >> > and could also possibly lead to faster exhaustion of hardware >> > resources as the extra labels will need to be programmed in hardware. >>=20 >> Even if we deprecated and reused every special purpose label from the no= n-extended space, >> that would only be 16 labels. I hope that 16 labels in the extended spa= ce will not exhaust the >> hardware resources. []=20 16 wouldn't be a problem IMO. Was (mistakenly) thinking it was the whole l= abel space to consider, not just 16. >>=20 >> With regard to the issue of allowing an arbitrary number of "extension >> labels": >>=20 >> > Isn't it better to allow for an arbitrary number now, rather than only >> > allow one now, then have to extend in future >>=20 >> There will never be a need for an arbitrary number of extension labels, = because the semantics of >> an arbitrary number of extension labels (according to the draft) is the = same as the semantics of a >> single extension label. >>=20 >> I wonder if there is a terminological issue here. An extended special p= urpose label is >> represented by a pair of contiguous label stack entries. >> The topmost entry of the pair is the "extension label" (label value 15),= and the bottommost entry >> of the pair is a label from the extended special purpose registry. It s= hould be possible to have an >> arbitrary number of such pairs in the label stack. But I don't see the = value of having an arbitrary >> number of contiguous "15"s followed by a label from the extended special= purpose registry. []=20 Maybe I've completely misunderstood the proposal, but isn't the idea that w= e have: - [0-14][unreserved label]... - [15][0-14 representing next 15 reserved labels][unreserved label] ... - [15][15][0-14 representing 2nd new set of 15 reserved labels][unreserved = label] ... ? William >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 From brian@innovationslab.net Wed Mar 20 16:12:24 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD8AD21F8959 for ; Wed, 20 Mar 2013 16:12:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OrAa3fv-D5YB for ; Wed, 20 Mar 2013 16:12:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uillean.fuaim.com (uillean.fuaim.com [206.197.161.140]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68B0F21F8900 for ; Wed, 20 Mar 2013 16:12:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from clairseach.fuaim.com (clairseach-high.fuaim.com [206.197.161.158]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by uillean.fuaim.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59A188809E; Wed, 20 Mar 2013 16:12:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Littlejohn.local (c-69-140-213-249.hsd1.md.comcast.net [69.140.213.249]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by clairseach.fuaim.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0729414000C; Wed, 20 Mar 2013 16:12:20 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <514A4252.2010408@innovationslab.net> Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 19:12:18 -0400 From: Brian Haberman User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130307 Thunderbird/17.0.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: mpls@ietf.org, "mpls-ads@tools.ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [mpls] MPLS-related work in TICTOC X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 23:12:25 -0000 MPLS WG, I would like to make everyone in the group aware of some work that overlaps with MPLS. The TICTOC WG is developing a specification for carrying IEEE 1588 timing information over MPLS. There will be a WGLC (in both TICTOC and MPLS) starting on this document in a few months. I invite anyone interested to review the document and contribute to the TICTOC effort. http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-tictoc-1588overmpls/ Regards, Brian From mjork@juniper.net Wed Mar 20 19:38:59 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6087121F8233 for ; Wed, 20 Mar 2013 19:38:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.467 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.467 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, SARE_RAND_6=2, UNRESOLVED_TEMPLATE=3.132] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 377H69x17X3O for ; Wed, 20 Mar 2013 19:38:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exprod7og101.obsmtp.com (exprod7og101.obsmtp.com [64.18.2.155]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F84C21F84C5 for ; Wed, 20 Mar 2013 19:38:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from P-EMHUB02-HQ.jnpr.net ([66.129.224.36]) (using TLSv1) by exprod7ob101.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKUUpyviVUH3cEPkXlZtXOr8jBHP9DAX0I@postini.com; Wed, 20 Mar 2013 19:38:54 PDT Received: from P-CLDFE01-HQ.jnpr.net (172.24.192.59) by P-EMHUB02-HQ.jnpr.net (172.24.192.36) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.3.213.0; Wed, 20 Mar 2013 19:37:07 -0700 Received: from o365mail.juniper.net (207.17.137.224) by o365mail.juniper.net (172.24.192.59) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.1.355.2; Wed, 20 Mar 2013 19:37:07 -0700 Received: from am1outboundpool.messaging.microsoft.com (213.199.154.205) by o365mail.juniper.net (207.17.137.224) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.355.2; Wed, 20 Mar 2013 19:46:21 -0700 Received: from mail39-am1-R.bigfish.com (10.3.201.246) by AM1EHSOBE024.bigfish.com (10.3.207.146) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.1.225.23; Thu, 21 Mar 2013 02:37:05 +0000 Received: from mail39-am1 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail39-am1-R.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10D7D2C02D1 for ; Thu, 21 Mar 2013 02:37:05 +0000 (UTC) X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:157.56.241.149; KIP:(null); UIP:(null); (null); H:BL2PRD0511HT002.namprd05.prod.outlook.com; R:internal; EFV:INT X-SpamScore: 0 X-BigFish: PS0(zzzz1f42h1ee6h1de0h1202h1e76h1d1ah1d2ahzzz2dh2a8h668h839h944hd25hf0ah1220h1288h12a5h12a9h12bdh137ah13b6h1441h1504h1537h153bh15d0h162dh1631h1758h18e1h1946h19b5h19ceh1ad9h1b0ah1155h) Received: from mail39-am1 (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail39-am1 (MessageSwitch) id 1363833422668939_26335; Thu, 21 Mar 2013 02:37:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: from AM1EHSMHS009.bigfish.com (unknown [10.3.201.230]) by mail39-am1.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96BA3E00AA; Thu, 21 Mar 2013 02:37:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: from BL2PRD0511HT002.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (157.56.241.149) by AM1EHSMHS009.bigfish.com (10.3.207.109) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.225.23; Thu, 21 Mar 2013 02:37:01 +0000 Received: from BL2PRD0511MB435.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.10.157]) by BL2PRD0511HT002.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([10.255.131.37]) with mapi id 14.16.0275.006; Thu, 21 Mar 2013 02:36:55 +0000 From: Markus Jork To: "draft-kompella-mpls-special-purpose-labels@tools.ietf.org" , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , Martin Vigoureux Thread-Topic: MPLS-RT review of draft-kompella-mpls-special-purpose-labels-02.txt Thread-Index: AQHOIdD7jbjHEbVpR0mDi8NXsE3K/ZivYW5A Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 02:36:55 +0000 Message-ID: <4DDE473A58262547A699C1E7C7AAF2742A4651AB@BL2PRD0511MB435.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> References: <5143A82D.8010204@pi.nu> In-Reply-To: <5143A82D.8010204@pi.nu> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [66.129.232.2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-FOPE-CONNECTOR: Id%0$Dn%*$RO%0$TLS%0$FQDN%$TlsDn% X-FOPE-CONNECTOR: Id%12219$Dn%TOOLS.IETF.ORG$RO%2$TLS%5$FQDN%onpremiseedge-1018244.customer.frontbridge.com$TlsDn%o365mail.juniper.net X-FOPE-CONNECTOR: Id%12219$Dn%ALCATEL-LUCENT.COM$RO%2$TLS%5$FQDN%onpremiseedge-1018244.customer.frontbridge.com$TlsDn%o365mail.juniper.net X-FOPE-CONNECTOR: Id%12219$Dn%IETF.ORG$RO%2$TLS%5$FQDN%onpremiseedge-1018244.customer.frontbridge.com$TlsDn%o365mail.juniper.net Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-kompella-mpls-special-purpose-labels-02.txt X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 02:38:59 -0000 This is my MPLS review team review of draft-kompella-mpls-special-purpose-l= abels-02.txt. 1. Is the document coherent? Yes, it discusses the topic in a question and answer format that is easy to= understand. This is a useful format for triggering discussion and initiall= y developing the set of proposed allocation and usage rules for the special= purpose labels. However, if this document progresses further towards becom= ing a standards track RFC, a more conventional format would be more appropr= iate I think: an introduction chapter directly followed by the set of polic= ies and rules. 2. Is it useful? There is a good chance this document will never be needed at all. But we ca= n't be sure because that means predicting the future. And because it is dea= ling with a currently very limited resource, it seems prudent to prevent fu= ture problems by defining an extension mechanism now. 3. Is it technically sound? The document represents one reasonable approach of dealing with the issue o= f the very limited reserved label space. As the discussion on the mailing l= ist has shown, everyone's crystal ball seems to be calibrated slightly diff= erently and certain aspects could be handled one way or the other. But I am= not aware of a clear alternative to the overall approach. So I think this document is ready for working group adoption. -Markus From loa@pi.nu Thu Mar 21 01:54:56 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3284421F854E for ; Thu, 21 Mar 2013 01:54:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.048 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.048 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, RDNS_NONE=0.1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6JUhBRjIOXge for ; Thu, 21 Mar 2013 01:54:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.pi.nu (unknown [195.206.248.139]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07D9921F856E for ; Thu, 21 Mar 2013 01:54:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.1.3.104] (unknown [195.68.67.65]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.pi.nu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C32DB7FE07; Thu, 21 Mar 2013 09:54:47 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <514ACAD6.5070806@pi.nu> Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 09:54:46 +0100 From: Loa Andersson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130307 Thunderbird/17.0.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "mpls@ietf.org" References: <5135CA50.8060402@pi.nu> In-Reply-To: <5135CA50.8060402@pi.nu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: "" , draft-weingarten-mpls-smp-requirements@tools.ietf.org Subject: [mpls] Closed - Re: poll to to see if we have support to make draft-weingarten-mpls-smp-requirements a working group document X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 08:54:56 -0000 Working Group, this poll is closed - and we have a new working group document. Could the authors please publish the new working group document (draft-ietf-mpls-smp-requirements-00.txt) with no other changes than the administrative information as compared to the document that we did the poll on. /Loa for the wg co-chairs On 2013-03-05 11:34, Loa Andersson wrote: > Working Group, > > This is to start a two week poll on adopting > draft-weingarten-mpls-smp-requirements-03 as an MPLS working > group document. > > Please send your comments (support/not support) to the mpls working > group mailing list (mpls at ietf.org). Please give a technical > motivation for your support/not support, especially if you think that > the document should not be adopted as a working group document. > > This poll ends March 20, 2013. > > There are no IPR claim against this document. > > The authors has stated on the working group mailing list > that they are not aware of any other IPR claims against this draft. > However if you are on the the mpls working group mailing list and > aware of IPR that relates to this draft, the time to disclose > this is now. > > /Loa > (mpls wg co-chair) > -- Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu Huawei Technologies (consultant) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 From loa@pi.nu Thu Mar 21 02:20:54 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8066621F8F1F for ; Thu, 21 Mar 2013 02:20:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.048 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.048 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, RDNS_NONE=0.1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wPiFsiEvERXL for ; Thu, 21 Mar 2013 02:20:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.pi.nu (unknown [195.206.248.139]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDA8E21F89A6 for ; Thu, 21 Mar 2013 02:20:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.1.3.104] (unknown [195.68.67.65]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.pi.nu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id AF6247FE07; Thu, 21 Mar 2013 10:20:52 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <514AD0F3.1090307@pi.nu> Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 10:20:51 +0100 From: Loa Andersson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130307 Thunderbird/17.0.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "mpls@ietf.org" References: <5136E90F.8060308@pi.nu> In-Reply-To: <5136E90F.8060308@pi.nu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-applicability-label-adv@tools.ietf.org Subject: [mpls] Closed - Re: working group last call on draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-applicability-label-adv X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 09:20:54 -0000 Working Group, this working group last call has been closed, we only had supportive comments! The working group chairs will discuss with the authors how to progress the document. /Loa for the mpls wg co-chairs On 2013-03-06 07:58, Loa Andersson wrote: > Working Group, > > this is to start a two week Working Group last call on > draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-applicability-label-adv-01.txt. > > Please send your comments to the mpls working group > mailing list (mpls@ietf.org). > > Please send both technical comments, and if you are happy > with the document as is also indications of support. > > There are no IPR claims against this draft. > > The co-authors have earlier stated that they are not aware > of any IPRs applicable to this draft. > > If anyone else in the working group are aware of IPRs claims against > this draft, the time to disclose that is now. > > This working group last call will end on March 20, 2013. > > /Loa > for the wg co-chairs > > > -- Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu Huawei Technologies (consultant) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 From loa@pi.nu Thu Mar 21 02:28:36 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C171D21F8F3A for ; Thu, 21 Mar 2013 02:28:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.048 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.048 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, RDNS_NONE=0.1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id j5lhIv7pjpWL for ; Thu, 21 Mar 2013 02:28:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.pi.nu (unknown [195.206.248.139]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A9F921F8F35 for ; Thu, 21 Mar 2013 02:28:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.1.3.104] (a65.fluent.fr [195.68.67.65]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.pi.nu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id CE5B17FE07; Thu, 21 Mar 2013 10:28:32 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <514AD2BF.5040604@pi.nu> Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 10:28:31 +0100 From: Loa Andersson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130307 Thunderbird/17.0.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "mpls@ietf.org" References: <51278645.3050800@pi.nu> <513E5BB9.4030505@pi.nu> In-Reply-To: <513E5BB9.4030505@pi.nu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: "" , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ip-pw-capability@tools.ietf.org Subject: [mpls] Closed - Re: Still Open - Working group last call on draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ip-pw-capability-03.txt X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 09:28:36 -0000 Working Group, this working group last call has been closed. We have only had supportive comments. The working group chairs will discuss with the authors how to progress the document. /Loa for the wg co-chairs On 2013-03-11 23:33, Loa Andersson wrote: > Working Group, > > this wglc should have been closed Friday last week, but since the > activity has been a little bit weak and we are going into the > IETF week we will not close it until mid-next week. > > Please take this chance to review and comment. > > /Loa > > On 2013-02-22 15:52, Loa Andersson wrote: >> Working Group, >> >> this is to start a two week Working Group last call on >> draft-ietf-mpls-ldp-ip-pw-capability-03.txt. >> >> Please send your comments to the mpls working group >> mailing list (mpls@ietf.org). >> >> Please send both technical comments, and if you are happy >> with the document as is also indications of support. >> >> There are no IPR claims against this draft. >> >> Booth the co-authors have earlier stated that they are not aware >> of any IPRs applicable to this draft. >> >> If anyone else in the working group are aware of IPRs claims against >> this draft, the time to disclose that is now. >> >> This working group last call will end on March 8, 2013. >> >> /Loa >> for the wg co-chairs >> >> >> >> > -- Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu Huawei Technologies (consultant) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 From jsw@inconcepts.biz Thu Mar 21 11:11:35 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2246121F8E1C for ; Thu, 21 Mar 2013 11:11:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.629 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.629 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.150, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 27Y4zEP8TzMK for ; Thu, 21 Mar 2013 11:11:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ie0-x22e.google.com (mail-ie0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c03::22e]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 844CC21F8CF0 for ; Thu, 21 Mar 2013 11:11:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ie0-f174.google.com with SMTP id aq17so838180iec.5 for ; Thu, 21 Mar 2013 11:11:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-received:x-originating-ip:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=oT0006GpOHOCDlj1bse715528l51BnLXWl/ZDKZfVxk=; b=W7bmp3eityv4naB2gwPv4wy+bVs7D/nroESGxjM5c5l0j/CISn12bAqpMFP9YJ10J3 HSqCVIgBb1uEik9qw1yP24DjMhJFnAWGXRMdBnhB6qz8LiVW6y6M5R0ets4UtI5SvH53 39mreAWMVxSuU4Ttv6Vvot0RYNMe1dKPCuPXV9ayQOxGbreoYN/laTiGjTQUTO9XIPFB 30EN8CI/UwIYOyueD1dcp7ynd4RyxFV7x+xhZeMswGMyqih14VIBaQpKuZytQilOl9+m iKECjDskA7cDhsoJzTAIxDAvTzmA2HAtNSU92iYDcDPaj9mH65Rd25tUSQZk/Uw9ZFBb kzoQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.13.100 with SMTP id g4mr1943469igc.44.1363889493914; Thu, 21 Mar 2013 11:11:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.50.77.167 with HTTP; Thu, 21 Mar 2013 11:11:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Originating-IP: [74.134.22.105] In-Reply-To: References: <31963.1363712582@erosen-linux> Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 14:11:33 -0400 Message-ID: From: Jeff Wheeler To: "William Ivory (wivory)" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkZCdoSgJZ03n7UyK+uZ2gDZr1dNXx+LCBF8JJoWhg/e3ZhMAbFFPnAc5mzRvrzMXrRS8BZ Cc: MPLS Subject: Re: [mpls] comments on draft-kompella-mpls-special-purpose-labels-02 X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 18:11:35 -0000 On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 8:25 AM, William Ivory (wivory) wrote: > Maybe I've completely misunderstood the proposal, but isn't the idea that we have: > > - [0-14][unreserved label]... > - [15][0-14 representing next 15 reserved labels][unreserved label] ... > - [15][15][0-14 representing 2nd new set of 15 reserved labels][unreserved label] ... My understanding of the text is [15][15][x] means exactly the same thing as [15][x]. In S3.1 "In particular, an arbitrary string of consecutive extension labels is legal, and semantically equivalent to a single extension label (note that this string of extension labels MUST be followed by an extended special purpose label that is not the extension label.") What you are getting is 1M new special-purpose labels by prefixing with 15. It is basically generalizing the concept used by Entropy Labels. MTU issues are not trivial but having a deeper and deeper label stack is a vexing problem. Many routers will choke on a packet that has more than N labels, where N is often <= 5. It would be wise to consider simply expanding the number of reserved/specal-purpose labels by growing them from 0..15 to 0..X. Do any routers exist where it is easier to deploy support for extended special purpose labels than for simply growing the reservation? My suspicion is no. If no, then this draft is very foolish. The "eats up forwarding label space" argument doesn't really work. If networks are constrained for forwarding label space then they are going to run out, whether or not a few hundred or a few tens of thousand of additional reservations are made. What I'm saying is, if a network couldn't afford to give up 0..65535 now, then it is going to out-grow the 20-bit label space in a week anyway, so it is already screwed. Of course most equipment does not have room in FIB for a fully-populated LFIB anyway. In short, my $0.02 is this draft is exploring the wrong solution. -- Jeff S Wheeler Sr Network Operator / Innovative Network Concepts From saku@ytti.fi Fri Mar 22 00:14:07 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55CE221F8489 for ; Fri, 22 Mar 2013 00:14:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id C8Wvj3Vy-dIA for ; Fri, 22 Mar 2013 00:14:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-la0-x22d.google.com (mail-la0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c03::22d]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83A1021F8488 for ; Fri, 22 Mar 2013 00:14:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-la0-f45.google.com with SMTP id er20so6604243lab.4 for ; Fri, 22 Mar 2013 00:14:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:date:from:to:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-type:content-disposition:in-reply-to:user-agent :x-gm-message-state; bh=ne3kYXdqlsOqJ+alXeVSvVQ7BER6SvZyxTKRsgv4HsU=; b=EsVRXHRFGP6t4JBcum4OIJr8cT8g94G6EtoM9utiyTuoTTTtSP1ICRbLR3sCerVMTK Ep5z66DscmuXvvwKa6Td0KPDic0mH0hW6B2yhG2I99ed2+NFJHiWNBDKGB22EzwlffqW f36oIleFTy/XaS+RtiODiRz2SgeadIFuYl8zD0uaaglgwu7W2kuoruKxKoBIE1IT6J3w 2G7IONpyjCZ1t3yF3XteE0WQ33vsG8uRHiCsD0CllKahGCGj01EBJn6dTL4iNYi/Rz2S 4XMBvwdJ3FZ1XDIY1XmRRVm377MQC4GVky5LxOP8A7otuLZd8cpnn70vIR4bw8flZaP9 ELkw== X-Received: by 10.112.131.227 with SMTP id op3mr541790lbb.76.1363936445016; Fri, 22 Mar 2013 00:14:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pob.ytti.fi (ytti.fi. [2001:6e8:288::8]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id l1sm506515lbn.8.2013.03.22.00.14.02 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 22 Mar 2013 00:14:03 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2013 09:14:00 +0200 From: Saku Ytti To: mpls@ietf.org Message-ID: <20130322071400.GA32063@pob.ytti.fi> References: <31963.1363712582@erosen-linux> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkIUX0YEmaBIR4uCFvHAbLMAMWKoL6c4SFIfTHkCqBUI/O7QouLr3fgY4j3iAcDvyIzy5fC Subject: Re: [mpls] comments on draft-kompella-mpls-special-purpose-labels-02 X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2013 07:14:07 -0000 On (2013-03-21 14:11 -0400), Jeff Wheeler wrote: > Do any routers exist where it is easier to deploy support for extended > special purpose labels than for simply growing the reservation? My I'm quite interested in this as well. If someone can think of practical example of MPLS product in use, where by HW labels 16 through say 16k will be used and cannot not be used via software update, it would be easy to disregard option of extending space. I'm not concerned of trio or ezchip style products, I'm sure those will adapt with very low cost to what we can think of essentially 8B mpls label when certain 20b magic exists. But 'l3 switch' style products might be problematic (7600, brocade, EX8k) How commonly do we foresee the need for multiple subsequent SP labels, such as [ 15 ext1 15 ext2 15 ext3 igp vpn ]? If this seems common, what would be the implications of dedicating one bit in SP label for EOE or end-of-extension? So we'd have [15 ext1 ext2 ext3 igp vpn] with EOE bit off in ext[12] and on in ext3. -- ++ytti From loa@pi.nu Fri Mar 22 02:26:00 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3320C21F9072 for ; Fri, 22 Mar 2013 02:26:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.048 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.048 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, RDNS_NONE=0.1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GZaAuYyPdjP3 for ; Fri, 22 Mar 2013 02:25:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.pi.nu (unknown [195.206.248.139]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82BFB21F903C for ; Fri, 22 Mar 2013 02:25:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.1.3.104] (a65.fluent.fr [195.68.67.65]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.pi.nu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 543BD7FE07; Fri, 22 Mar 2013 10:25:56 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <514C23A1.60500@pi.nu> Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2013 10:25:53 +0100 From: Loa Andersson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130307 Thunderbird/17.0.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jeff Wheeler References: <31963.1363712582@erosen-linux> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: MPLS Subject: Re: [mpls] comments on draft-kompella-mpls-special-purpose-labels-02 X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2013 09:26:00 -0000 On 2013-03-21 19:11, Jeff Wheeler wrote: > > > MTU issues are not trivial but having a deeper and deeper label stack > is a vexing problem. Many routers will choke on a packet that has > more than N labels, where N is often <= 5. It would be wise to > consider simply expanding the number of reserved/specal-purpose labels > by growing them from 0..15 to 0..X. > Specifying is easy, implementing is harder, operating is worse! Label stack processing is mostly or at least commonly in HW. You would need to do a HW change of your entire network the day you introduce the first router with the "grown label space", otherwise treatment of labels 15 to X will be non-deterministic /Loa -- Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu Huawei Technologies (consultant) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 From pabloisnot@gmail.com Fri Mar 22 14:13:33 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DABBE21F89B2 for ; Fri, 22 Mar 2013 14:13:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.298 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.298 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.300, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_37=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0IhO38nTY43I for ; Fri, 22 Mar 2013 14:13:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vc0-f175.google.com (mail-vc0-f175.google.com [209.85.220.175]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E22BB21F8496 for ; Fri, 22 Mar 2013 14:13:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-vc0-f175.google.com with SMTP id hf12so3435340vcb.20 for ; Fri, 22 Mar 2013 14:13:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-received:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=dqL3QZeyv/1IlA+e2HkNTYsM0l5zeZz7RJSzQL8c+z4=; b=j2aJIK9tVG809JOMyZnGfCEntZV6gbHRUNMPhkeaGuHLRWjMp/MsSeICv2WJ+v42EF heg53uFQ8MjYE48ZTCngrAEbFeWnTwMF2An+bHnvSQ5Y+Yxu2jeplJh3ultCPy6IUX09 fCDHuoWFuU/XTS+4ipc1ispYk+mpYuneIuVXzcdC6usE9aaInJP/0w58WUL7jchZLVRP VlbA6eLFQzbyeOq9baMX2e/GMifFZd374dh68MOYOo4vKTGIcncOeiqMFWY50AwxXVgp gWmJVxDosSrbegwfsbv2HQ2Q9KPfZdp5kV8vvoSByulUICkzVuaUKkJM0b/ZckHIJo58 hz9g== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.58.85.134 with SMTP id h6mr4340498vez.18.1363986812354; Fri, 22 Mar 2013 14:13:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.97.97 with HTTP; Fri, 22 Mar 2013 14:13:32 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2013 17:13:32 -0400 Message-ID: From: Pablo Frank To: draft-kompella-mpls-special-purpose-labels-02@tools.ietf.org, mpls@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b6d93406dc4c104d889ed3b Subject: [mpls] Concerns about draft-kompella-mpls-special-purpose-labels-02 X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2013 21:13:34 -0000 --047d7b6d93406dc4c104d889ed3b Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hello draft-kompella-mpls-special-purpose-labels authors, I'll preface my comments by saying that while I think the intent of this draft is certainly laudable, the matter of reserved-label exhaustion is probably not urgent. In other words, let's not be hasty on this one and let's get it right. :-) My first concern involves backwards compatibility with mpls multipath solutions. In particular, it's important that implementations that hash label stacks for the purposes of ECMP or LAG should ignore reserved labels. I would think the same thing should apply to extended special purpose labels but because these labels can be outside the 0-15 range, existing implementations will include them in their hash. This will have the effect that current implementations will add unintended entropy when it sees these labels. That's probably a bad effect and I doubt it was intended. Conversely, this is exactly the desired behaviour of ELI+Entropy which this proposal appears to be modeled on. My second concern involves the size of the extended special purpose label range and how that will impact very high-speed hardware designs. As it currently stands, detecting a reserved label is trivially simple and since the set of reserved labels is so small, the handling of said labels can be either implemented in a very small lookup resource or even hard-coded. Since the proposed extended special purpose label space is now 20-bits wide, this becomes a much more expensive lookup resource in terms of chip area, lookup cycles, etc. If jumping from 4-bits to 20-bits is "free", I'd be less concerned. But IMO, it's not free and may very well be an overreaction given that the rate of reserved label allocation does not appear to be growing exponentially. The third concern is a relatively minor issue with how the draft appears to allow arbitrarily long strings of label 15 and seems to mandate that they should be treated as a single occurence of label 15. I could see some implementations being vulnerable to DOS attack if they parse the label stack recursively. Is there a particular motivation for this requirement or am I reading it wrong? A possible solution that addresses all of these concerns, that admittedly is not very elegant, is to use each consecutive occurance of label 15 to extend the reserved label space by another 15 labels. In other words: - labels 0-14 are the original (classic) reserved labels if they are not preceeded by label 15. - Unless they are preceeded by label 15, in which case labels 0-14 are really mapped to special purpose labels 16-30. - Unless they are preceeded by two consecutive label 15s, in which case labels 0-14 are really mapped to special purpose labels 32-46. - etc. To address my 3rd concern, an implementation would discard a string of label 15s if they exceeded the range of labels that it supported. Yeah, I know, yuck. But it does work and has the virtue of being backwards-compatible with existing mpls multipath techniques and allowing a much more gradual ramp for the hardware lookup tables. It also assumes that the rate of reserved label allocation will remain more or less linear over time. It may, in fact, decrease given that GACh channel-types can probably address many future needs. regards, Pablo --047d7b6d93406dc4c104d889ed3b Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello draft-kompella-mpls-special-purpose-labels authors,

I'll preface my comments by saying that while I think the intent of t= his draft is certainly=A0laudable, the matter of reserved-label exhaustion = is probably not urgent. =A0In other words, let's not be hasty on this o= ne and let's get it right. =A0:-)

My first concern involves backwards compatibility with = mpls multipath solutions. =A0In particular, it's important that impleme= ntations that hash label stacks for the purposes of ECMP or LAG should igno= re reserved labels. =A0I would think the same thing should apply to extende= d special purpose labels but because these labels can be outside the 0-15 r= ange, existing implementations will include them in their hash. =A0This wil= l have the effect that current implementations will add unintended entropy = when it sees these labels. =A0That's probably a bad effect and I doubt = it was intended. =A0Conversely, this is exactly the desired behaviour of EL= I+Entropy which this proposal appears to be modeled on.

My second concern involves the size of the extended spe= cial purpose label range and how that will impact very high-speed hardware = designs. =A0As it currently stands, detecting a reserved label is trivially= simple and since the set of reserved labels is so small, the handling of s= aid labels can be either implemented in a very small lookup resource or eve= n hard-coded. =A0Since the proposed extended special purpose label space is= now 20-bits wide, this becomes a much more expensive lookup resource in te= rms of chip area, lookup cycles, etc. =A0If jumping from 4-bits to 20-bits = is "free", I'd be less concerned. =A0But IMO, it's not fr= ee and may very well be an overreaction given that the rate of reserved lab= el allocation does not appear to be growing exponentially.

The third concern is a relatively minor issue with how = the draft appears to allow arbitrarily long strings of label 15 and seems t= o mandate that they should be treated as a single occurence of label 15. = =A0I could see some implementations being vulnerable to DOS attack if they = parse the label stack recursively. =A0Is there a particular motivation for = this requirement or am I reading it wrong? =A0

A possible solution that addresses all of these concern= s, that admittedly is not very elegant, is to use each consecutive occuranc= e of label 15 to extend the reserved label space by another 15 labels. =A0I= n other words:
- labels 0-14 are the original (classic) reserved labels if they are n= ot preceeded by label 15.
- Unless they are preceeded by label 15= , in which case labels 0-14 are really mapped to special purpose labels 16-= 30.
- Unless they are preceeded by two consecutive label 15s, in which cas= e labels 0-14 are really mapped to special purpose labels 32-46.
= - etc.
To address my 3rd concern, an implementation would discard= a string of label 15s if they exceeded the range of labels that it support= ed.

Yeah, I know, yuck. =A0But it does work and has the vir= tue of being backwards-compatible with existing mpls multipath techniques a= nd allowing a much more gradual ramp for the hardware lookup tables. =A0

It also assumes that the rate of reserved label allocat= ion will remain more or less linear over time. =A0It may, in fact, decrease= given that GACh channel-types can probably address many future needs.

regards,
Pablo

--047d7b6d93406dc4c104d889ed3b-- From jsw@inconcepts.biz Fri Mar 22 18:39:25 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EEEE221F8A7E for ; Fri, 22 Mar 2013 18:39:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.579 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.579 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.099, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BecAExivSesi for ; Fri, 22 Mar 2013 18:39:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ie0-x229.google.com (mail-ie0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c03::229]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D1A621F88FB for ; Fri, 22 Mar 2013 18:39:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ie0-f169.google.com with SMTP id qd14so4183907ieb.0 for ; Fri, 22 Mar 2013 18:39:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-received:x-originating-ip:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=zmTV/8ECw7whiZMIROaM5GNtLkpe4Pq/3uHvfIoFRAk=; b=hoa/0uxvMycaK4p+n28ztL+8HFz3ozrJ1h4pJQPK7hnWQ2tBHrmEN9NpLIkGhC/1LQ 8zqo4ZU/4ytem6J1fOvNbI40rN8qicV7caUmOpeuMY9aqjKsSqu8ipNTxE6fdaXO9C/O PcrlTA6/Q128xn6tSdPTQ9TccO9e42Kjx7G0a9zbWwkIj7hYrXaUAqYJGzMu0jrJMkgZ INDcCHh+61hz94bzJI7zVYbcegv1o8AFf3+ekXElrB/AOMHH2q/pvHgUBtdDadYw9nfj 4gAsb9FPJR309erf5NG0tQYzTN+vTCd88PTX7NzBYCAy7AbHm/Fdseq9WH0qs58u1I83 IsGQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.13.100 with SMTP id g4mr2718936igc.44.1364002763974; Fri, 22 Mar 2013 18:39:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.50.77.167 with HTTP; Fri, 22 Mar 2013 18:39:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Originating-IP: [74.134.22.105] In-Reply-To: <514C23A1.60500@pi.nu> References: <31963.1363712582@erosen-linux> <514C23A1.60500@pi.nu> Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2013 21:39:23 -0400 Message-ID: From: Jeff Wheeler To: Loa Andersson Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e013c661438996f04d88da4fd X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkOjjT4W/bmVnU9eGoUz6xYrdUt6mc5SDKhrLtSpwzw0yrxmpJD9kgb2CQQ8WQVqjTVpWV8 Cc: MPLS Subject: Re: [mpls] comments on draft-kompella-mpls-special-purpose-labels-02 X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2013 01:39:26 -0000 --089e013c661438996f04d88da4fd Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 5:25 AM, Loa Andersson wrote: > Specifying is easy, implementing is harder, operating is worse! > Label stack processing is mostly or at least commonly in HW. You > would need to do a HW change of your entire network the day you introduce > the first router with the "grown label space", otherwise > treatment of labels 15 to X will be non-deterministic Loa, can you give any example of such hardware? I believe this draft is a huge mistake, and that mistake is probably based on the wrong assumption you've posted (quoted above.) Any feature introduced by extended special-purpose labels is not going to be supported by routers without at least new software. If routers exist that are not capable of taking additional processing steps (such as punt to CPU, forward as IPv4/IPv6, use entropy label) based on an arbitrary label value, then these routers simply will not be able to support new features. They will not break. So we're not talking about breaking anyone's deployed hardware. At worst, new features might not be able to be supported. However, I suspect vendors were not so fantastically stupid as to hard-wire 0..15 special action label range into their ASICs without making it possible to install a LFIB entry so arbitrary labels can also take a special action. If there are such fantastically stupid vendors, it's probably not a good idea to punish everyone else for their rather obvious mistake. This adds MTU complexity and wastes bandwidth / wire-time whenever extended S-P labels are in use. If you are going to make those sacrifices, I think you should be able to give at least one example of a router that actually forces you to do it this way. -- Jeff S Wheeler Sr Network Operator / Innovative Network Concepts --089e013c661438996f04d88da4fd Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 5:25 AM, Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu> wrote:
> Specifying is easy, implementing is h= arder, operating is worse!
> Label stack processing is mostly or at l= east commonly in HW. You
> would need to do a HW change of your entire network the day you introd= uce
> the first router with the "grown label space", otherw= ise
> treatment of labels 15 to X will be non-deterministic

Loa, can you give any example of such hardware?

I believe this draft= is a huge mistake, and that mistake is probably based on the wrong assumpt= ion you've posted (quoted above.)

Any feature introduced by exte= nded special-purpose labels is not going to be supported by routers without= at least new software. =A0If routers exist that are not capable of taking = additional processing steps (such as punt to CPU, forward as IPv4/IPv6, use= entropy label) based on an arbitrary label value, then these routers simpl= y will not be able to support new features. =A0They will not break.

So we're not talking about breaking anyone's deployed hardware.= =A0At worst, new features might not be able to be supported. =A0However, I= suspect vendors were not so fantastically stupid as to hard-wire 0..15 spe= cial action label range into their ASICs without making it possible to inst= all a LFIB entry so arbitrary labels can also take a special action.

If there are such fantastically stupid vendors, it's pro= bably not a good idea to punish everyone else for their rather obvious mist= ake.


This adds MTU complexity and w= astes bandwidth / wire-time whenever extended S-P labels are in use.

If you are going to make those sacrifices, I think you = should be able to give at least one example of a router that actually force= s you to do it this way.

--
Jeff S Wheeler <= ;jsw@inconcepts.biz>
Sr Network Operator =A0/ =A0Innovative Network Concepts
--089e013c661438996f04d88da4fd-- From curtis@occnc.com Fri Mar 22 20:05:03 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5CD721F8D46 for ; Fri, 22 Mar 2013 20:05:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.42 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.42 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.075, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZODqVTQvRG2a for ; Fri, 22 Mar 2013 20:05:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gateway1.orleans.occnc.com (unknown [173.9.106.132]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E47421F8BBD for ; Fri, 22 Mar 2013 20:05:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from harbor1.ipv6.occnc.com (harbor1.ipv6.occnc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1545::2:819]) (authenticated bits=0) by gateway1.orleans.occnc.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r2N33jTB040776; Fri, 22 Mar 2013 23:03:45 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from curtis@occnc.com) Message-Id: <201303230303.r2N33jTB040776@gateway1.orleans.occnc.com> To: Jeff Wheeler From: Curtis Villamizar In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 22 Mar 2013 21:39:23 EDT." Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2013 23:03:45 -0400 Cc: MPLS Subject: Re: [mpls] comments on draft-kompella-mpls-special-purpose-labels-02 X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: curtis@occnc.com List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2013 03:05:04 -0000 In message Jeff Wheeler writes: > On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 5:25 AM, Loa Andersson wrote: > > Specifying is easy, implementing is harder, operating is worse! > > Label stack processing is mostly or at least commonly in HW. You > > would need to do a HW change of your entire network the day you introduce > > the first router with the "grown label space", otherwise > > treatment of labels 15 to X will be non-deterministic > > Loa, can you give any example of such hardware? > > I believe this draft is a huge mistake, and that mistake is probably based > on the wrong assumption you've posted (quoted above.) > > Any feature introduced by extended special-purpose labels is not going to > be supported by routers without at least new software. If routers exist > that are not capable of taking additional processing steps (such as punt to > CPU, forward as IPv4/IPv6, use entropy label) based on an arbitrary label > value, then these routers simply will not be able to support new features. > They will not break. > > So we're not talking about breaking anyone's deployed hardware. At worst, > new features might not be able to be supported. However, I suspect vendors > were not so fantastically stupid as to hard-wire 0..15 special action label > range into their ASICs without making it possible to install a LFIB entry > so arbitrary labels can also take a special action. > > If there are such fantastically stupid vendors, it's probably not a good > idea to punish everyone else for their rather obvious mistake. > > > This adds MTU complexity and wastes bandwidth / wire-time whenever extended > S-P labels are in use. > > If you are going to make those sacrifices, I think you should be able to > give at least one example of a router that actually forces you to do it > this way. > > -- > Jeff S Wheeler > Sr Network Operator / Innovative Network Concepts Many LSR use a table for the ILM. Since the receving end specifies which label to use in both LDP and RSVP-TE (and PW), an LSR with less than the full 20 bits of space can be assured that all labels it will ever see will fall within that table. A TCAM can be used as an ILM but it is much less power efficient. It is though common where a TCAM is used for IP routes (or MAC lookups) and the power is already in the power budget for that use of the chip. If the IETF is assigning the labels and decides to put a label up high in the number space (for example a block of experimental or vendor assigned, which I hope to never see), then the table approach won't work. The existing reserved space (0-15) is well within any LSR's ILM table size. I'm liking Pablo's suggestion a little bit because of the small extension to the space, except for the problem of LSR that don't know the meaning of 15 and then misinterpret the next label (for example, as ELI). So I like using 15 and then a small space such as 17-1023. The worst an LSR will do with that is hash on it, so maybe any further labels that can't be hashed on can go into the old space. If we assign 1,000 special purpose labels, we are going to need a lot bigger micro-programable engine instruction spaces than we have in some existing chips that do OAM that way. So I think ~1000 is plenty big enough. Curtis From housley@vigilsec.com Sat Mar 23 12:16:34 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B8E821F8D2F; Sat, 23 Mar 2013 12:16:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ywyXAQTI4muG; Sat, 23 Mar 2013 12:16:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from odin.smetech.net (mail.smetech.net [208.254.26.82]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE18821F8D5D; Sat, 23 Mar 2013 12:16:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (unknown [208.254.26.81]) by odin.smetech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68DF89A40D2; Sat, 23 Mar 2013 15:16:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at smetech.net Received: from odin.smetech.net ([208.254.26.82]) by localhost (ronin.smetech.net [208.254.26.81]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id idbZry9e46ET; Sat, 23 Mar 2013 15:16:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.2.100] (pool-108-28-60-169.washdc.fios.verizon.net [108.28.60.169]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by odin.smetech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 347BD9A40CD; Sat, 23 Mar 2013 15:16:31 -0400 (EDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1085) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Russ Housley In-Reply-To: <20130128200109.10916.38496.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2013 15:16:29 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <20130128200109.10916.38496.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> To: ietf@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1085) Cc: mpls@ietf.org Subject: Re: [mpls] Last Call: X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2013 19:16:34 -0000 I wonder if the direction of Section 1.2 can be revised to make it more = of an engineering document. It currently says: In recent years, the urgency for moving from traditional transport technologies, such as SONET/SDH, TDM, and ATM, to new packet technologies has been rising. This is largely due to the fast growing demand for bandwidth, which has been fueled by the following factors: ... Please consider an approach that describes the the reasons behind the = transition from the network operator and network user perspectives: Traditional transport technologies include SONET/SDH, TDM, and ATM. There is a transition away from these transport technologies to new packet technologies. In addition to the ever increasing demand for bandwidth, the packet technologies offer these advantages: ... The fact that IP networks are being used for new applications and that = the legacy devices are getting old does not motivate the transition to = packet technologies. The advantages that packet technologies offer for = these new applications is the thing that needs to be highlighted here, = even if it is just a list of bullets. It seems like the only sentence that addresses this point in Section 1.2 = is: "It streamlines the operation, reduces the overall complexity, and = improves end-to-end convergence." Thanks, Russ On Jan 28, 2013, at 3:01 PM, The IESG wrote: > The IESG has received a request from the Multiprotocol Label Switching = WG > (mpls) to consider the following document: > - 'MPLS-TP Applicability; Use Cases and Design' > as Informational RFC >=20 > The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits > final comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the > ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2013-02-11. Exceptionally, comments may = be > sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the > beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting. >=20 > Abstract >=20 > This document provides applicability, use case studies and network > design considerations for the Multiprotocol Label Switching = Transport > Profile (MPLS-TP). The use cases include Metro Ethernet access and > aggregation transport, Mobile backhaul, and packet optical = transport. >=20 > The file can be obtained via > = http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-tp-use-cases-and-design/ >=20 > IESG discussion can be tracked via > = http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-tp-use-cases-and-design/ba= llot/ >=20 >=20 > No IPR declarations have been submitted directly on this I-D. From jsw@inconcepts.biz Sat Mar 23 16:21:54 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46C4E21F8C04 for ; Sat, 23 Mar 2013 16:21:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.554 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.554 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.075, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Pm94Dc4PONtW for ; Sat, 23 Mar 2013 16:21:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-we0-x22a.google.com (mail-we0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c03::22a]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A20221F8BCD for ; Sat, 23 Mar 2013 16:21:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-we0-f170.google.com with SMTP id z2so2666048wey.15 for ; Sat, 23 Mar 2013 16:21:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-received:x-originating-ip:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=51YakQDyDPlJ2WsJrsdWTBzahkOiKHtVCSXQm7MVnHA=; b=m8UNZUoG89ro065WUkGXJQK7Wa0Tm7VuxEMx6MaRrZe0l9Rr0MPbyQNmzmDkKNkw1F vOIAgoMvyEEsc4fubyeiLctht19p44eYmXHlTFzCFQVw5C0mbLqKywGeHrsNhyvLyWwH hVm+yCvxGBTNVHzTz2wNgVA1dmK/YkwTamVUO9VY4sFJg9/Z/79f10YPrCQj0ilaoMJv T/7QfthR7uk1vY6mc6XDQ6/0/GmpPRW8Gl5nxItfkhW6zSpxz8tnZkcPFBGcQyj1Gb3u 5OswEu8WMmNcJFc/vMMb4w2gbQFqwRYhULT+Xyd2i4LSKAEzGcQHqXoIxD/Kr/HRh3NG BuaQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.180.94.133 with SMTP id dc5mr23114653wib.1.1364080912517; Sat, 23 Mar 2013 16:21:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.227.128.200 with HTTP; Sat, 23 Mar 2013 16:21:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Originating-IP: [74.134.22.105] In-Reply-To: <201303230303.r2N33jTB040776@gateway1.orleans.occnc.com> References: <201303230303.r2N33jTB040776@gateway1.orleans.occnc.com> Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2013 19:21:52 -0400 Message-ID: From: Jeff Wheeler To: curtis@occnc.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnzVW8FqrrjDo05EffQFrRkVuGVjzicuBDDLHBsPXVidy+RurgDSqQBX+grdXNm/2GT+NOT Cc: MPLS Subject: Re: [mpls] comments on draft-kompella-mpls-special-purpose-labels-02 X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2013 23:21:54 -0000 On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 11:03 PM, Curtis Villamizar wrote: > Many LSR use a table for the ILM. Since the receving end specifies > which label to use in both LDP and RSVP-TE (and PW), an LSR with less > than the full 20 bits of space can be assured that all labels it will > ever see will fall within that table. I don't think anyone has suggested this is a problem for PE -- except carrier-of-carrier PE. Ignoring that case for now, keep in mind that a PE isn't going to signal willingness to accept entropy labels, or any future feature, that might require the use of extended special-purpose labels. Aside from carrier-of-carrier issues, there is no sense in even discussing PEs. Either they'll support it, or they won't; but PEs are in a position to choose. > I'm liking Pablo's suggestion a little bit because of the small > extension to the space, except for the problem of LSR that don't know > the meaning of 15 and then misinterpret the next label (for example, > as ELI). So I like using 15 and then a small space such as 17-1023. The 15 prefix is my gripe. I do not believe hardware exists that can't inter-operate in a P role if 16-1023 (or whatever) suddenly became reserved labels. If the community can't come up with a single example of such hardware, then it shouldn't penalize everyone with this ridiculous prefix label. Plenty of routers exist that are unwilling to look at a label stack deeper than 3..5 labels. This draft just adds to label bloat, and that costs data-plane processing time or makes features impossible to implement without new hardware. I also would like to understand why several consecutive 15 labels should be processed. That seems pointless. Is there a reason for it? -- Jeff S Wheeler Sr Network Operator / Innovative Network Concepts From loa@pi.nu Mon Mar 25 02:56:19 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F04C21F8EE8 for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2013 02:56:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -100.448 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-100.448 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, J_CHICKENPOX_37=0.6, RDNS_NONE=0.1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SObOpBSdU5hw for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2013 02:56:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.pi.nu (unknown [195.206.248.139]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88FA821F8EE5 for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2013 02:56:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.104] (81-236-221-144-no93.tbcn.telia.com [81.236.221.144]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.pi.nu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A03E3823B5; Mon, 25 Mar 2013 10:56:12 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <51501F3E.2010400@pi.nu> Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 10:56:14 +0100 From: Loa Andersson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130307 Thunderbird/17.0.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Pablo Frank References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: mpls@ietf.org, draft-kompella-mpls-special-purpose-labels-02@tools.ietf.org Subject: Re: [mpls] Concerns about draft-kompella-mpls-special-purpose-labels-02 X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 09:56:19 -0000 Pablo, tnx for comment - see inline please- On 2013-03-22 22:13, Pablo Frank wrote: > Hello draft-kompella-mpls-special-purpose-labels authors, > > I'll preface my comments by saying that while I think the intent of this > draft is certainly laudable, the matter of reserved-label exhaustion is > probably not urgent. In other words, let's not be hasty on this one and > let's get it right. :-) The reason for this draft been posted now was that we wanted to address the issue before it becomes urgent, so yes I agree. However there is one (maybe two) things in the draft that is a little more urgent than the extension of the special purpose label space. 1. the renaming of "reserved labels" to "special purpose labels", to align with how IANA useses the word "reerved". 2. The procedures to deprecate and retire special purpose labels. If we find that the discussion on how to extend the special purpose label space drags out, then I guess we could break out those to items in a separate draft. But let keep in the draft for some time. > > My first concern involves backwards compatibility with mpls multipath > solutions. In particular, it's important that implementations that hash > label stacks for the purposes of ECMP or LAG should ignore reserved > labels. I would think the same thing should apply to extended special > purpose labels yes that is true but because these labels can be outside the 0-15 range, > existing implementations will include them in their hash. I don't think this is true - if you find a special purpose label that you don't recognize you should silently drop that packet. So a packet with an unrecognized extension label should no get into the hashing at all. > This will > have the effect that current implementations will add unintended entropy > when it sees these labels. >That's probably a bad effect and I doubt it > was intended. Conversely, this is exactly the desired behaviour of > ELI+Entropy which this proposal appears to be modeled on. > > My second concern involves the size of the extended special purpose > label range and how that will impact very high-speed hardware designs. > As it currently stands, detecting a reserved label is trivially simple > and since the set of reserved labels is so small, the handling of said > labels can be either implemented in a very small lookup resource or even > hard-coded. Since the proposed extended special purpose label space is > now 20-bits wide, this becomes a much more expensive lookup resource in > terms of chip area, lookup cycles, etc. If jumping from 4-bits to > 20-bits is "free", I'd be less concerned. But IMO, it's not free and > may very well be an overreaction given that the rate of reserved label > allocation does not appear to be growing exponentially. I'd be fully open to discuss how many special purpose labels that is needed, I saw Curtis talking about 0-1023, would that address your concern? > > The third concern is a relatively minor issue with how the draft appears > to allow arbitrarily long strings of label 15 and seems to mandate that > they should be treated as a single occurence of label 15. I could see > some implementations being vulnerable to DOS attack if they parse the > label stack recursively. Is there a particular motivation for this > requirement or am I reading it wrong? In the last version of the document we said that 15 in the extended space is "reserved", my personal opinion is that 15,15 is not allowed and that it should have be taken out of the draft. > > A possible solution that addresses all of these concerns, that > admittedly is not very elegant, is to use each consecutive occurance of > label 15 to extend the reserved label space by another 15 labels. In > other words: > - labels 0-14 are the original (classic) reserved labels if they are not > preceeded by label 15. > - Unless they are preceeded by label 15, in which case labels 0-14 are > really mapped to special purpose labels 16-30. > - Unless they are preceeded by two consecutive label 15s, in which case > labels 0-14 are really mapped to special purpose labels 32-46. > - etc. > To address my 3rd concern, an implementation would discard a string of > label 15s if they exceeded the range of labels that it supported. I'd really would like to allocate 0-1023 after 15 for the extended special purpose, with some of the as listed in the draft, have a common interpretation in both spaces. /Loa > > Yeah, I know, yuck. But it does work and has the virtue of being > backwards-compatible with existing mpls multipath techniques and > allowing a much more gradual ramp for the hardware lookup tables. > > It also assumes that the rate of reserved label allocation will remain > more or less linear over time. It may, in fact, decrease given that > GACh channel-types can probably address many future needs. > > regards, > Pablo > > > > _______________________________________________ > mpls mailing list > mpls@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > -- Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu Huawei Technologies (consultant) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 From erosen@cisco.com Mon Mar 25 07:55:46 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62EBB11E80E3 for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2013 07:55:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ihENrZXW55ty for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2013 07:55:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mtv-iport-1.cisco.com (mtv-iport-1.cisco.com [173.36.130.12]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBA0811E80C5 for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2013 07:55:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=3235; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1364223345; x=1365432945; h=to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:reply-to:date:message-id:from; bh=0rgb4ugufHvNyB8/nFnGprTBcS39NA3tS2CrJXXMYPA=; b=ivai4xEmYhgoZ3RjJiaG69cuXo+cwwbgYf/I0vJIPDyLyZykqWqQjzIb AEU83PGb0YEDB/hhPHDVgG/fDsTKmTUeP426K1FQFCiqrI1iaSjOTI/YQ BskKh6J3u4iM6YY0vsJbqDjRZULoFAp9NEaiFxQE+9RwGe6yieSQpAU6r M=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.84,905,1355097600"; d="scan'208";a="73568843" Received: from mtv-core-3.cisco.com ([171.68.58.8]) by mtv-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 25 Mar 2013 14:55:45 +0000 Received: from erosen-linux.cisco.com (erosen-linux.cisco.com [161.44.70.34]) by mtv-core-3.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r2PEtije017084 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 25 Mar 2013 14:55:45 GMT Received: from erosen-linux (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by erosen-linux.cisco.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r2PEthYG022046; Mon, 25 Mar 2013 10:55:44 -0400 To: Loa Andersson In-reply-to: Your message of Mon, 25 Mar 2013 10:56:14 +0100. <51501F3E.2010400@pi.nu> Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 10:55:43 -0400 Message-ID: <22045.1364223343@erosen-linux> From: Eric Rosen Cc: mpls@ietf.org, draft-kompella-mpls-special-purpose-labels-02@tools.ietf.org Subject: Re: [mpls] Concerns about draft-kompella-mpls-special-purpose-labels-02 X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: erosen@cisco.com List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 14:55:46 -0000 Loa> However there is one (maybe two) things in the draft that is a little Loa> more urgent than the extension of the special purpose label space. Loa> 1. the renaming of "reserved labels" to "special purpose labels", to Loa> align with how IANA uses the word "reserved". Loa> 2. The procedures to deprecate and retire special purpose labels. What is the urgency? Loa> if you find a special purpose label that you don't recognize you should Loa> silently drop that packet. So a packet with an unrecognized extension Loa> label should not get into the hashing at all. If an unrecognized label rises to the top of the label stack, the packet should be dropped. However, I don't think there's any requirement for a router to drop a packet just because there's an unrecognized special purpose label somewhere in the stack. So if hashing is done on the entire stack, I think Pablo is right that labels from the extended special purpose label space will get into the hash. Whether that really makes any difference is another matter. Pablo> This will have the effect that current implementations will add Pablo> unintended entropy when it sees these labels. Are there specific scenarios in which packets that should stay in order can get different special purpose labels pushed on their stacks, but cannot get different dynamically assigned labels pushed on their stacks? Loa> I'd really would like to allocate 0-1023 after 15 for the extended Loa> special purpose How about 0-63? Or 0-255? If the WG were to decide that Pablo's point is valid, one could deal with it by treating several of the currently unused special purpose labels (I think there are nine available) as extension labels, each identifying a new 4-bit extended special purpose label space. That scheme would satisfy Pablo's criteria, but would not require more than two label stack entries to represent any of the special purpose labels. (I guess each such label space would have to assign 7 as the entropy label.) I'm not advocating this scheme, but I do think it is better than using the cardinality of a sequence of 15's to identify a particular special purpose label space ;-) With regard to Jeff's suggestion to just expand the special purpose label space by several bits, I think the problem is the following. There are bound to be routers in the network that do not know that 17, say, is now a special purpose label. Such routers may bind dynamically 17 to a FEC or tunnel. This will add an exciting bit of unpredictability to the handling of packets carrying that label. Jeff> Plenty of routers exist that are unwilling to look at a label stack Jeff> deeper than 3..5 labels. I'm guessing that "unwilling to look at" means that the high speed memory used to hold the packet header cannot hold more than 3 to 5 labels. This would only be a problem for a P router if it had to interpret (in the fast path) an extended special purpose label and 2-4 regular labels (or a couple of special purpose labels) in order to dispatch the packet properly. It might be interesting to examine such scenarios, if someone can present them without getting overly emotional about it ;-) From loa@mail01.huawei.com Mon Mar 25 08:40:02 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6B4521E803D for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2013 08:40:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.348 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.348 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5gBp1OS4Xxtk for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2013 08:40:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.pi.nu (unknown [195.206.248.139]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5D7D21F84DF for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2013 08:40:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.94] (90-227-238-197-no15.business.telia.com [90.227.238.197]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.pi.nu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id F39AD7FE07; Mon, 25 Mar 2013 16:39:56 +0100 (CET) References: <22045.1364223343@erosen-linux> Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) In-Reply-To: <22045.1364223343@erosen-linux> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <19191D1B-4C54-4D32-A965-FF84D6BC67A5@mail01.huawei.com> X-Mailer: iPad Mail (10B329) From: "Loa@mail01.huawei.com" Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 16:39:57 +0100 To: "" X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 09:05:04 -0700 Cc: "" , "" Subject: Re: [mpls] Concerns about draft-kompella-mpls-special-purpose-labels-02 X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 15:40:03 -0000 Eric, About urgency - I just tried say when working e.g. IANA we would benefit from getting the t= erminology right.=20 About retiring special purpose labels - We could start the retirement process for not used labels if we have the pr= ocess in place.=20 I didn't say "urgent" - just that I don't want to wait, while something else= is discussed.=20 About number extend labels - As I said I'm prepared to discuss and that I've a preference. /Loa Sent from iPAD n On 25 mar 2013, at 15:55, Eric Rosen wrote: >=20 > Loa> However there is one (maybe two) things in the draft that is a little= > Loa> more urgent than the extension of the special purpose label space. >=20 > Loa> 1. the renaming of "reserved labels" to "special purpose labels", to > Loa> align with how IANA uses the word "reserved". >=20 > Loa> 2. The procedures to deprecate and retire special purpose labels. >=20 > What is the urgency? >=20 > Loa> if you find a special purpose label that you don't recognize you shou= ld > Loa> silently drop that packet. So a packet with an unrecognized extension= tgi wouldn't cel > Loa> label should not get into the hashing at all. >=20 > If an unrecognized label rises to the top of the label stack, the packet > should be dropped. However, I don't think there's any requirement for a > router to drop a packet just because there's an unrecognized special purpo= se > label somewhere in the stack. So if hashing is done on the entire stack, I= > think Pablo is right that labels from the extended special purpose label > space will get into the hash. >=20 > Whether that really makes any difference is another matter. =20 >=20 > Pablo> This will have the effect that current implementations will add > Pablo> unintended entropy when it sees these labels. >=20 > Are there specific scenarios in which packets that should stay in order ca= n get > different special purpose labels pushed on their stacks, but cannot get > different dynamically assigned labels pushed on their stacks? >=20 > Loa> I'd really would like to allocate 0-1023 after 15 for the extended > Loa> special purpose >=20 > How about 0-63? Or 0-255? =20 >=20 > If the WG were to decide that Pablo's point is valid, one could deal with i= t > by treating several of the currently unused special purpose labels (I thin= k > there are nine available) as extension labels, each identifying a new 4-bi= t > extended special purpose label space. That scheme would satisfy Pablo's > criteria, but would not require more than two label stack entries to > represent any of the special purpose labels. (I guess each such label spa= ce > would have to assign 7 as the entropy label.) >=20 > I'm not advocating this scheme, but I do think it is better than using the= > cardinality of a sequence of 15's to identify a particular special purpose= > label space ;-) >=20 > With regard to Jeff's suggestion to just expand the special purpose label > space by several bits, I think the problem is the following. There are > bound to be routers in the network that do not know that 17, say, is now a= > special purpose label. Such routers may bind dynamically 17 to a FEC or > tunnel. This will add an exciting bit of unpredictability to the handling= > of packets carrying that label. >=20 > Jeff> Plenty of routers exist that are unwilling to look at a label stack > Jeff> deeper than 3..5 labels. >=20 > I'm guessing that "unwilling to look at" means that the high speed memory > used to hold the packet header cannot hold more than 3 to 5 labels. This > would only be a problem for a P router if it had to interpret (in the fast= > path) an extended special purpose label and 2-4 regular labels (or a coupl= e > of special purpose labels) in order to dispatch the packet properly. It > might be interesting to examine such scenarios, if someone can present the= m > without getting overly emotional about it ;-) >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 From curtis@occnc.com Mon Mar 25 19:08:00 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31EFB21F8435 for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2013 19:08:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.712 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.712 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.207, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4P0QyEHY81CF for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2013 19:07:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gateway1.orleans.occnc.com (unknown [173.9.106.132]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CA7321F8442 for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2013 19:07:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from harbor1.ipv6.occnc.com (harbor1.ipv6.occnc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1545::2:819]) (authenticated bits=0) by gateway1.orleans.occnc.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r2Q26dYe018188; Mon, 25 Mar 2013 22:06:39 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from curtis@occnc.com) Message-Id: <201303260206.r2Q26dYe018188@gateway1.orleans.occnc.com> To: Jeff Wheeler From: Curtis Villamizar In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 23 Mar 2013 19:21:52 EDT." Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 22:06:39 -0400 Cc: MPLS Subject: Re: [mpls] comments on draft-kompella-mpls-special-purpose-labels-02 X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: curtis@occnc.com List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2013 02:08:00 -0000 In message Jeff Wheeler writes: > On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 11:03 PM, Curtis Villamizar wrote: > > Many LSR use a table for the ILM. Since the receving end specifies > > which label to use in both LDP and RSVP-TE (and PW), an LSR with less > > than the full 20 bits of space can be assured that all labels it will > > ever see will fall within that table. > > I don't think anyone has suggested this is a problem for PE -- except > carrier-of-carrier PE. Ignoring that case for now, keep in mind that > a PE isn't going to signal willingness to accept entropy labels, or > any future feature, that might require the use of extended > special-purpose labels. > > Aside from carrier-of-carrier issues, there is no sense in even > discussing PEs. Either they'll support it, or they won't; but PEs are > in a position to choose. I suspect that you didn't get the point I was making. This has nothing to do with LDP P vs PE roles. The point is that currently an LSR with a smaller that 2^20 (roughly 1 million) ILM that is table based, can insure that all label forwarded to it by legitimate traffic falls within its ILM table. > > I'm liking Pablo's suggestion a little bit because of the small > > extension to the space, except for the problem of LSR that don't know > > the meaning of 15 and then misinterpret the next label (for example, > > as ELI). So I like using 15 and then a small space such as 17-1023. > > The 15 prefix is my gripe. I do not believe hardware exists that > can't inter-operate in a P role if 16-1023 (or whatever) suddenly > became reserved labels. If the community can't come up with a single > example of such hardware, then it shouldn't penalize everyone with > this ridiculous prefix label. I don't think we are supposed to mention vendor products, but ... I worked closely with two chip vendors. Both of their high end chip designs (which are very different from each other) could handle this with only microcode changes (ie: in the field). I think that for both this is true for a few past generations as well. I worked not nearly as closely with a third and I think their current and some recent past chips could handle this (ie: label 15 followed by another label that is automatically interpreted as "special"), though they are already a bit stack depth challenged. Seeing 15 on the top of stack and interpreting the next label as a special label is not hard. Instead of a table of 16 special operations, there is a table of 1024 (or some number). A few existing OAM designs (not a good option, but..) pack a vector and send it off to an FPGA or ASIC on the side. In the few designs I've run into that do this, the packing is quite flexible, so packing the 4 bits of old reserved space, or 10 bits of new special lable space might be possible with in-field firmware change. In either case, the OAM FPGA or ASIC would need change. Seeing 0-14 on the stack when looking for entropy and skipping it is not hard to do. Seeing a 15 on the stack and skipping two labels is also not hard. Except for some of the most poorly designed chips I know of (and there are some bad ones out there), this is quite doable, in some with in-field firmware upgrade, though others might need a tweak making it a next gen feature. For any new special purpose label that falls outside of the 0-14 range, backwards compatibility will have to be discussed. It is also worth pointing out that there is time to change designs before the first 16-1023 special purpose label is assigned, which I hope won't be soon after this draft. This draft is about future proofing should the remaining 6 bits be used up (I think its 6). > Plenty of routers exist that are unwilling to look at a label stack > deeper than 3..5 labels. This draft just adds to label bloat, and > that costs data-plane processing time or makes features impossible to > implement without new hardware. Bad hardware is no reason to not move forward. In 2000 there were plenty of routers in the field that could not forward MPLS at all. It is up to providers to use features that can be supported by their deployed base of hardware, not for IETF to halt progress based on the mistakes of vendors in the past. > I also would like to understand why several consecutive 15 labels > should be processed. That seems pointless. Is there a reason for it? I entirely agree with that. It is complete nonsense. I would like to see 15 followed by 0-15 be declared to be an error. > -- > Jeff S Wheeler > Sr Network Operator / Innovative Network Concepts Curtis From curtis@occnc.com Mon Mar 25 20:56:04 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC3CD21F88E8 for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2013 20:56:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.456 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.456 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.351, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, J_CHICKENPOX_37=0.6, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hjk7H3vZl1rP for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2013 20:56:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gateway1.orleans.occnc.com (unknown [173.9.106.132]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F42D21F88D8 for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2013 20:56:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from harbor1.ipv6.occnc.com (harbor1.ipv6.occnc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1545::2:819]) (authenticated bits=0) by gateway1.orleans.occnc.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r2Q3rV7u021746; Mon, 25 Mar 2013 23:53:31 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from curtis@occnc.com) Message-Id: <201303260353.r2Q3rV7u021746@gateway1.orleans.occnc.com> To: Loa Andersson From: Curtis Villamizar In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 25 Mar 2013 10:56:14 BST." <51501F3E.2010400@pi.nu> Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 23:53:31 -0400 Cc: mpls@ietf.org, draft-kompella-mpls-special-purpose-labels-02@tools.ietf.org Subject: Re: [mpls] Concerns about draft-kompella-mpls-special-purpose-labels-02 X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: curtis@occnc.com List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2013 03:56:04 -0000 In message <51501F3E.2010400@pi.nu> Loa Andersson writes: > > Pablo, > > tnx for comment - see inline please- Loa, A few comments inline. Curtis > On 2013-03-22 22:13, Pablo Frank wrote: > > Hello draft-kompella-mpls-special-purpose-labels authors, > > > > I'll preface my comments by saying that while I think the intent of this > > draft is certainly laudable, the matter of reserved-label exhaustion is > > probably not urgent. In other words, let's not be hasty on this one and > > let's get it right. :-) > > The reason for this draft been posted now was that we wanted to address > the issue before it becomes urgent, so yes I agree. > > However there is one (maybe two) things in the draft that is a little > more urgent than the extension of the special purpose label space. > > 1. the renaming of "reserved labels" to "special purpose labels", to > align with how IANA useses the word "reerved". > 2. The procedures to deprecate and retire special purpose labels. > > If we find that the discussion on how to extend the special purpose > label space drags out, then I guess we could break out those to items > in a separate draft. But let keep in the draft for some time. > > > > > My first concern involves backwards compatibility with mpls multipath > > solutions. In particular, it's important that implementations that hash > > label stacks for the purposes of ECMP or LAG should ignore reserved > > labels. I would think the same thing should apply to extended special > > purpose labels > > yes that is true > but because these labels can be outside the 0-15 range, > > existing implementations will include them in their hash. > > I don't think this is true - if you find a special purpose label that > you don't recognize you should silently drop that packet. So a packet > with an unrecognized extension label should no get into the hashing > at all. It is. If the 15 is not on the top of the stack, then the LSR MUST NOT drop the packet. In doing the hash, an older LSR would skip over the 15 but then incorrectly hash on the next label if it fell outside of the 0-15 range. > > This will > > have the effect that current implementations will add unintended entropy > > when it sees these labels. > >That's probably a bad effect and I doubt it > > was intended. Conversely, this is exactly the desired behaviour of > > ELI+Entropy which this proposal appears to be modeled on. > > > > My second concern involves the size of the extended special purpose > > label range and how that will impact very high-speed hardware designs. > > As it currently stands, detecting a reserved label is trivially simple > > and since the set of reserved labels is so small, the handling of said > > labels can be either implemented in a very small lookup resource or even > > hard-coded. Since the proposed extended special purpose label space is > > now 20-bits wide, this becomes a much more expensive lookup resource in > > terms of chip area, lookup cycles, etc. If jumping from 4-bits to > > 20-bits is "free", I'd be less concerned. But IMO, it's not free and > > may very well be an overreaction given that the rate of reserved label > > allocation does not appear to be growing exponentially. > > I'd be fully open to discuss how many special purpose labels that is > needed, I saw Curtis talking about 0-1023, would that address your > concern? > > > > > The third concern is a relatively minor issue with how the draft appears > > to allow arbitrarily long strings of label 15 and seems to mandate that > > they should be treated as a single occurence of label 15. I could see > > some implementations being vulnerable to DOS attack if they parse the > > label stack recursively. Is there a particular motivation for this > > requirement or am I reading it wrong? > > In the last version of the document we said that 15 in the extended > space is "reserved", my personal opinion is that 15,15 is not allowed > and that it should have be taken out of the draft. +1 > > A possible solution that addresses all of these concerns, that > > admittedly is not very elegant, is to use each consecutive occurance of > > label 15 to extend the reserved label space by another 15 labels. In > > other words: > > - labels 0-14 are the original (classic) reserved labels if they are not > > preceeded by label 15. > > - Unless they are preceeded by label 15, in which case labels 0-14 are > > really mapped to special purpose labels 16-30. > > - Unless they are preceeded by two consecutive label 15s, in which case > > labels 0-14 are really mapped to special purpose labels 32-46. > > - etc. > > To address my 3rd concern, an implementation would discard a string of > > label 15s if they exceeded the range of labels that it supported. > > I'd really would like to allocate 0-1023 after 15 for the extended > special purpose, with some of the as listed in the draft, have a common > interpretation in both spaces. How about 16-1023 following 15? With 0-15 following 15 being considered an error. Then 10 bits can be passed to the OAM gorp. > /Loa > > > > Yeah, I know, yuck. But it does work and has the virtue of being > > backwards-compatible with existing mpls multipath techniques and > > allowing a much more gradual ramp for the hardware lookup tables. > > > > It also assumes that the rate of reserved label allocation will remain > > more or less linear over time. It may, in fact, decrease given that > > GACh channel-types can probably address many future needs. > > > > regards, > > Pablo From cts@etri.re.kr Mon Mar 25 21:01:36 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FE3A21F888B for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2013 21:01:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -92.527 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-92.527 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.001, CHARSET_FARAWAY_HEADER=3.2, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_BASE64_TEXT=1.753, TVD_SPACE_RATIO=2.219, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EwjstjWhzG3U for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2013 21:01:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpeg.etri.re.kr (smtpeg2.etri.re.kr [129.254.27.142]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AAC921F886A for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2013 21:01:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SMTP2.etri.info (129.254.28.72) by SMTPEG2.etri.info (129.254.27.142) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.355.2; Tue, 26 Mar 2013 13:01:36 +0900 Received: from SMTP4.etri.info ([169.254.3.138]) by SMTP2.etri.info ([169.254.2.197]) with mapi id 14.01.0355.002; Tue, 26 Mar 2013 13:01:31 +0900 From: =?ks_c_5601-1987?B?waTFwr3E?= To: "mpls@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: test Thread-Index: Ac4p1pTGezC8Ob6nS82twMdIX4rSrA== Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2013 04:01:31 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: ko-KR, en-US Content-Language: ko-KR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [129.254.73.69] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ks_c_5601-1987" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: [mpls] test X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2013 04:01:36 -0000 UGxlYXNlIGlnbm9yZS4uLg0KDQo= From curtis@occnc.com Mon Mar 25 21:06:17 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7CC521F88E8 for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2013 21:06:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.068 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.068 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.563, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id w0IMX7db96-V for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2013 21:06:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gateway1.orleans.occnc.com (unknown [173.9.106.132]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01CE121F88CC for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2013 21:06:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from harbor1.ipv6.occnc.com (harbor1.ipv6.occnc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1545::2:819]) (authenticated bits=0) by gateway1.orleans.occnc.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r2Q4507N021858; Tue, 26 Mar 2013 00:05:00 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from curtis@occnc.com) Message-Id: <201303260405.r2Q4507N021858@gateway1.orleans.occnc.com> To: erosen@cisco.com From: Curtis Villamizar In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 25 Mar 2013 10:55:43 EDT." <22045.1364223343@erosen-linux> Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2013 00:05:00 -0400 Cc: mpls@ietf.org, draft-kompella-mpls-special-purpose-labels-02@tools.ietf.org Subject: Re: [mpls] Concerns about draft-kompella-mpls-special-purpose-labels-02 X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: curtis@occnc.com List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2013 04:06:17 -0000 In message <22045.1364223343@erosen-linux> Eric Rosen writes: > > Loa> However there is one (maybe two) things in the draft that is a little > Loa> more urgent than the extension of the special purpose label space. > > Loa> 1. the renaming of "reserved labels" to "special purpose labels", to > Loa> align with how IANA uses the word "reserved". > > Loa> 2. The procedures to deprecate and retire special purpose labels. > > What is the urgency? > > Loa> if you find a special purpose label that you don't recognize you should > Loa> silently drop that packet. So a packet with an unrecognized extension > Loa> label should not get into the hashing at all. > > If an unrecognized label rises to the top of the label stack, the packet > should be dropped. However, I don't think there's any requirement for a > router to drop a packet just because there's an unrecognized special purpose > label somewhere in the stack. So if hashing is done on the entire stack, I > think Pablo is right that labels from the extended special purpose label > space will get into the hash. > > Whether that really makes any difference is another matter. > > Pablo> This will have the effect that current implementations will add > Pablo> unintended entropy when it sees these labels. > > Are there specific scenarios in which packets that should stay in order can get > different special purpose labels pushed on their stacks, but cannot get > different dynamically assigned labels pushed on their stacks? > > Loa> I'd really would like to allocate 0-1023 after 15 for the extended > Loa> special purpose > > How about 0-63? Or 0-255? > > If the WG were to decide that Pablo's point is valid, one could deal with it > by treating several of the currently unused special purpose labels (I think > there are nine available) as extension labels, each identifying a new 4-bit > extended special purpose label space. That scheme would satisfy Pablo's > criteria, but would not require more than two label stack entries to > represent any of the special purpose labels. (I guess each such label space > would have to assign 7 as the entropy label.) > > I'm not advocating this scheme, but I do think it is better than using the > cardinality of a sequence of 15's to identify a particular special purpose > label space ;-) No one is proposing to use the cardinality of a sequence of 15's and in fact most of us are trying to get two 15s in a row to be an error and I'm pushing for 0-15 following 15 to be an error. > With regard to Jeff's suggestion to just expand the special purpose label > space by several bits, I think the problem is the following. There are > bound to be routers in the network that do not know that 17, say, is now a > special purpose label. Such routers may bind dynamically 17 to a FEC or > tunnel. This will add an exciting bit of unpredictability to the handling > of packets carrying that label. 17 would have no special meaning unless it directly follows 15. > Jeff> Plenty of routers exist that are unwilling to look at a label stack > Jeff> deeper than 3..5 labels. > > I'm guessing that "unwilling to look at" means that the high speed memory > used to hold the packet header cannot hold more than 3 to 5 labels. This > would only be a problem for a P router if it had to interpret (in the fast > path) an extended special purpose label and 2-4 regular labels (or a couple > of special purpose labels) in order to dispatch the packet properly. It > might be interesting to examine such scenarios, if someone can present them > without getting overly emotional about it ;-) By unwilling to look at, Jeff means unwilling to use them in the multipath hash. In PWE order (bottom to top). PWE3 flow label PWE3 PW label EL ELI LDP EL ELI RSVP-TE OK. That is 8. Wedge 15 and new improved special label in there (somewhere). OTOH, only the top three (TE, ELI, EL) need to be looked at if the gadget support EL. Curtis From jsw@inconcepts.biz Tue Mar 26 01:58:11 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5079121F86EA for ; Tue, 26 Mar 2013 01:58:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.479 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.479 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wj7UOICIKbn6 for ; Tue, 26 Mar 2013 01:58:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ie0-x231.google.com (mail-ie0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c03::231]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9595921F8617 for ; Tue, 26 Mar 2013 01:58:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ie0-f177.google.com with SMTP id tp5so4146936ieb.22 for ; Tue, 26 Mar 2013 01:58:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-received:x-originating-ip:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=PKgJ1MvxjsWLlf6CmVBtyds/nS9OPtvU6aQsA9oVqWM=; b=QYtLTzz7XwYxRqJM1tyCz3pq3cnbmFUAeprZFqprEZevEJfW/OwldIYhsXz2IG14ze fgH2Tcsabn4TLGjw8GJwKJR6Gj4kkFyLg9vDJj4clu36ydiXTdBTFlw2RW5+pAOuPX4e CZsxbpoVwSEW0c2FzEPDoshrKwsbiFVBTtVgX8GeIDYdfoJD7x6uoJ/mJR7QKGPMZjVO bgUh7jAPSfflw5OkwK1PSRbRMvgKmG1tBAtaDZdgDFSw3tr35sf+UAbz4eXyvAfUrTHl TmAmXozcWTapB0VMLyOcdOHjYdGQPnSFFGDg64EttsFE3kvNCy9ytzwQfXZGsBAfFUII OaGw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.13.100 with SMTP id g4mr806166igc.44.1364288290091; Tue, 26 Mar 2013 01:58:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.50.152.105 with HTTP; Tue, 26 Mar 2013 01:58:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Originating-IP: [74.134.22.105] In-Reply-To: <201303260206.r2Q26dYe018188@gateway1.orleans.occnc.com> References: <201303260206.r2Q26dYe018188@gateway1.orleans.occnc.com> Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2013 04:58:09 -0400 Message-ID: From: Jeff Wheeler To: curtis@occnc.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQl75Zp91pLt8nrOt12VjtLct7VOXDsqrCWtr/GL4fRcNuSWFdUOk7EBSWBzoMZgEfMOh3Sh Cc: MPLS Subject: Re: [mpls] comments on draft-kompella-mpls-special-purpose-labels-02 X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2013 08:58:11 -0000 On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 10:06 PM, Curtis Villamizar wrote: > The point is that currently an LSR with a smaller that 2^20 (roughly 1 > million) ILM that is table based, can insure that all label forwarded > to it by legitimate traffic falls within its ILM table. You expressed concern that some hardware would be unable to cope with reserved labels 16-1023 but could cope with [15][X] and I disagree. If Entropy Labels doesn't break this hardware, then neither will any possible expanded reserved label scheme -- except those that make the label stack too deep. This draft makes the label stack deeper. There is zero benefit to that. I'll respond to your other remarks below, as you've actually argued my position for me. > I don't think we are supposed to mention vendor products, but ... > > I worked closely with two chip vendors. Both of their high end chip This working group is basing an obviously bad design decision on the assumption that some hardware exists that somehow could not cope with simply expanding the reserved label range from 0-15 to 0-1023. If these hardware makers are concerned about their products inter-operating, then they should speak up. It shouldn't be your responsibility. I argue that there are zero such chips deployed with such an incredibly stupid design that they would, in any way, break if the 0-15 range is just made 0-Bigger. 0-Bigger is technically superior, in every way, to the 15 prefix proposed in this draft. If you want to do the technically inferior solution, then please justify it. Otherwise, let these makers of old or badly-designed chips express their concern. > Bad hardware is no reason to not move forward. In 2000 there were > plenty of routers in the field that could not forward MPLS at all. You can't argue that "bad hardware is no reason to move forward," but then support a bad design, like this 15 prefix before new reserved labels; and justify it by saying there is some hardware that can't support an extended range. Which do you want? Supporting the bad hardware that no one has been able to name, and no one has even claimed exists, even without naming it? Or would you like a technically superior solution, which is very simply, changing 0-15 to 0-1023 (or whatever value is agreeable.) Making the label stack deeper for no reason is really stupid. If you can show some reason to do it, I am certainly willing to listen. "Bad hardware" that no one claims exists in the field is not a reason. > I would like to see 15 followed by 0-15 be declared to be an error. I disagree strongly with the 15 prefix concept. However, if it does keep momentum, I agree that [15][15] should be undefined behavior, and that should be explicitly documented as undefined. This covers routers that don't know about 15. -- Jeff S Wheeler Sr Network Operator / Innovative Network Concepts From jsw@inconcepts.biz Tue Mar 26 02:20:34 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 660C821F893D for ; Tue, 26 Mar 2013 02:20:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.479 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.479 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rNhLh4Tg8xCa for ; Tue, 26 Mar 2013 02:20:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ia0-x22e.google.com (mail-ia0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c02::22e]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C314E21F8934 for ; Tue, 26 Mar 2013 02:20:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ia0-f174.google.com with SMTP id b35so6153536iac.19 for ; Tue, 26 Mar 2013 02:20:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-received:x-originating-ip:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=MEIv0l1FzY9v4ZkWCleTAlUWf6yZC8MeiS0VjmQvZa8=; b=Rrdq+OXDdvM1SB5RVqqDcOr2ix5ln701H7aEvg8MTZoPiN3FYdrE6WbJ1almuI9rnA OvFf2wY3rFcrHHrv3xU3BuvagW+FypOUqmqxNqJt1fezMf3q80bsfA9N0yUI/2uLIiJv 1syL9Yrj/t1BZLaIzd6cjTdkWBt064WaL13kQIr7nu4/FY/pyhgS5pUCQc2B5AjEejb8 /u18pNn+4jwt/GTISe1vD+jvXTN0faYFqyjuRL5iwZpk0MsxtRZlxtQrEkYyNX8xgjBt kzgGEcYLBJi8A7M4gNdRgovEg18mnAdTebLSVqvBXu6jDrZo3rSS3vCjG6SSte4zxn8Q gKbg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.57.200 with SMTP id k8mr818460igq.44.1364289632932; Tue, 26 Mar 2013 02:20:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.50.152.105 with HTTP; Tue, 26 Mar 2013 02:20:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Originating-IP: [74.134.22.105] In-Reply-To: <22045.1364223343@erosen-linux> References: <51501F3E.2010400@pi.nu> <22045.1364223343@erosen-linux> Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2013 05:20:32 -0400 Message-ID: From: Jeff Wheeler To: erosen@cisco.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlcrlH88vFibOH727wLULJ1UY7QyxD6T8//H2i1nHnwynq0v5QpAgBn7hkVG7+pR7fxXWO3 Cc: mpls@ietf.org Subject: Re: [mpls] Concerns about draft-kompella-mpls-special-purpose-labels-02 X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2013 09:20:34 -0000 On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 10:55 AM, Eric Rosen wrote: > What is the urgency? See below. > With regard to Jeff's suggestion to just expand the special purpose label > space by several bits, I think the problem is the following. There are > bound to be routers in the network that do not know that 17, say, is now a > special purpose label. Such routers may bind dynamically 17 to a FEC or > tunnel. This will add an exciting bit of unpredictability to the handling > of packets carrying that label. Precisely -- today you can use 17 as a forwarding label. I argue that the best solution is to expand the existing special-purpose label space, so PE routers must first stop allocating 17 and friends; otherwise P routers will think an FEC label is an SP label, and create an inter-op problem. It's questionable whether or not the existing special-purpose label space will ever be exhausted. This is plenty of time for PE routers to receive software updates that no longer allocate 16-1023 (or whatever) as forwarding labels. > Jeff> Plenty of routers exist that are unwilling to look at a label stack > Jeff> deeper than 3..5 labels. > > I'm guessing that "unwilling to look at" means that the high speed memory > used to hold the packet header cannot hold more than 3 to 5 labels. This > would only be a problem for a P router if it had to interpret (in the fast > path) an extended special purpose label and 2-4 regular labels (or a couple > of special purpose labels) in order to dispatch the packet properly. It > might be interesting to examine such scenarios, if someone can present them > without getting overly emotional about it ;-) As Curtis points out, it may also be a problem for hashing. If the router cannot find the BoS then it can't hash on the payload. The wisdom of payload estimation hashing has proven to be questionable at best, but a deeper and deeper label stack causes more problems than just MTU. Whether you call it register size, compute cycles per packet, or whatever, the fact is that many routers exist that are limited to 3..5 labels before the router's behavior becomes unspecified or degraded. -- Jeff S Wheeler Sr Network Operator / Innovative Network Concepts From internet-drafts@ietf.org Tue Mar 26 09:07:31 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DA441F0D07; Tue, 26 Mar 2013 09:07:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.56 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.56 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.040, BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QEC3mtei7POZ; Tue, 26 Mar 2013 09:07:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A18321F8AF0; Tue, 26 Mar 2013 09:07:30 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 4.43 Message-ID: <20130326160730.19606.9284.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2013 09:07:30 -0700 Cc: mpls@ietf.org Subject: [mpls] I-D Action: draft-ietf-mpls-smp-requirements-00.txt X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2013 16:07:32 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director= ies. This draft is a work item of the Multiprotocol Label Switching Working Gro= up of the IETF. Title : Requirements for MPLS Shared Mesh Protection Author(s) : Yaacov Weingarten Sam Aldrin Ping Pan Jeong-dong Ryoo Greg Mirsky Filename : draft-ietf-mpls-smp-requirements-00.txt Pages : 13 Date : 2013-03-25 Abstract: This document presents the basic network objectives for the behavior of shared mesh protection (SMP) not based on control-plane support. This is an expansion of the basic requirements presented in the MPLS Transport Profile Requirements (RFC5654) and MPLS Transport Profile Survivability Framework (RFC6372) documents. This document should be used as a basis for the definition of the mechanism that would be used to implement SMP for MPLS-TP data paths, in networks that do not employ a control plane for their operation. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-smp-requirements There's also a htmlized version available at: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-mpls-smp-requirements-00 Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From lberger@labn.net Wed Mar 27 07:26:25 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63AF021F9189 for ; Wed, 27 Mar 2013 07:26:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.273 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.273 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.008, BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MkCfEKADm6e8 for ; Wed, 27 Mar 2013 07:26:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oproxy13-pub.unifiedlayer.com (oproxy13-pub.unifiedlayer.com [69.89.16.30]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 0AF5221F9184 for ; Wed, 27 Mar 2013 07:26:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 13677 invoked by uid 0); 27 Mar 2013 14:25:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box313.bluehost.com) (69.89.31.113) by oproxy13.unifiedlayer.com with SMTP; 27 Mar 2013 14:25:57 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=labn.net; s=default; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:CC:To:MIME-Version:From:Date:Message-ID; bh=pxqU6vqXI1NkVWVgQ3VN7SklAHeSKZQDDHmQ8VzGAYc=; b=X8Q4pTiYj2a2s7mSa1Yu7COz7a7owkSO+G/vu6K9EXMNFCPVk2S0TTr6LCX68/bCIgCkRx/SY9p1omMyDZxXxApK+848+j3VRJQF167zQ+/u1cNf8MzuKB0FrjuODFZ6; Received: from box313.bluehost.com ([69.89.31.113]:55651 helo=[127.0.0.1]) by box313.bluehost.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1UKrIb-0007wS-9e; Wed, 27 Mar 2013 08:25:57 -0600 Message-ID: <5152FAD5.7040309@labn.net> Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2013 06:57:41 -0700 From: Lou Berger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130307 Thunderbird/17.0.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Daniele Ceccarelli References: <50E5E64A.8090105@pi.nu> <4A1562797D64E44993C5CBF38CF1BE4805E29A@ESESSMB301.ericsson.se> In-Reply-To: <4A1562797D64E44993C5CBF38CF1BE4805E29A@ESESSMB301.ericsson.se> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5.1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Identified-User: {1038:box313.bluehost.com:labnmobi:labn.net} {sentby:smtp auth 69.89.31.113 authed with lberger@labn.net} Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , "draft-fbb-mpls-tp-p2mp-framework@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] poll to see if we have support to make draft-fbb-mpls-tp-p2mp-framework-06.txt an MPLS wg document X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2013 14:26:25 -0000 Daniele, We're finally getting around to updating this draft. See below for responses in-line. On 1/10/2013 10:58 AM, Daniele Ceccarelli wrote: > Yes/Support > > with some very minor comments/suggestions: > > BR > Daniele > > 1 . > MPLS TE-LSP support is discussed in [RFC4875] and > [RFC5332], and PW support is being developed based on > [I-D.ietf-pwe3-p2mp-pw-requirements] and > [I-D.ietf-l2vpn-vpms-frmwk-requirements]. > I'd say that P2MP MPLS TE-LSP support is discussed...and P2MP PW support.... done! > > 2. > > MPLS-TP point-to- > multipoint connectivity is analogous to that provided by traditional > transport technologies such as Optical Transport Network (OTN) point- > to-multipoint [ref?] and optical drop-and-continue [ref?], and thus > supports the same class of traditional applications. > > Maybe it could be worth listing which this applications are? > Adding "e.g., video distribution." Do you have any other examples you'd like to see included? > 3. > > > Per [RFC6373], the definitions of P2MP, [RFC4875], and GMPLS > recovery, [RFC4872] and [RFC4873], do not explicitly cover their > interactions. MPLS-TP requires a formal definition of recovery > techniques for P2MP LSPs. Such a formal definition will be based on > existing RFCs and may not require any new protocol mechanisms but, > nonetheless, should be documented. > > Is there any plan to document it in this ID o somewhere else? if so, where? I don't have such a plan, nor have I heard of anyone working on this document. Looks like an opportunity for authorship for someone! > RFC6372 only provides protection considerations, what about restoration? Well this is really a comment on RFC6372. In any case, it certainly mentions restoration. Much thanks! Lou > > > > On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 3:12 PM, Loa Andersson > wrote: > > Working group, > > This is to start a two week poll on adopting > draft-fbb-mpls-tp-p2mp-framework-06 as an MPLS working group document. > > Please send your comments (support/not support) to the mpls working > group mailing list (mpls at ietf.org ). Please give > an technical > motivation for your support/not support, especially if you think that > the document should not be adopted as a working group document. > > This poll ends January 17, 2013. > > There are no IPR claim against this document. > > All the active co-authors has stated on the working group mailing list > that they are not aware of any other IPR claims than those already > disclosed. > > /Loa > (mpls wg co-chair) > > -- > > > Loa Andersson email: > loa.andersson@ericsson.com > Sr Strategy and Standards Manager loa@pi.nu > > Ericsson Inc phone: +46 10 717 52 13 > > +46 767 72 92 13 > > _______________________________________________ > mpls mailing list > mpls@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > mpls mailing list > mpls@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > From lberger@labn.net Wed Mar 27 07:26:38 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EA8821F918D for ; Wed, 27 Mar 2013 07:26:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.271 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.271 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.006, BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rmBWVtEhlAKV for ; Wed, 27 Mar 2013 07:26:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oproxy13-pub.unifiedlayer.com (oproxy13-pub.unifiedlayer.com [69.89.16.30]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id C654221F9184 for ; Wed, 27 Mar 2013 07:26:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 14028 invoked by uid 0); 27 Mar 2013 14:26:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box313.bluehost.com) (69.89.31.113) by oproxy13.unifiedlayer.com with SMTP; 27 Mar 2013 14:26:02 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=labn.net; s=default; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:CC:To:MIME-Version:From:Date:Message-ID; bh=FRyMn9tY/3cq7JDeUDUaLFWF4iV6Z6kLajm54DCXg90=; b=XKPSBxiH9kal/zHIM7SsPmVd0hVY6DEJN4MCz8odFRQwghGfmtnB8QCflX7+zeYQ1IPHyDBkoglO04kueUwYXciYSpcmvIAjZswVJShDM9VK8vs3/tSKavTT/87teyEz; Received: from box313.bluehost.com ([69.89.31.113]:55658 helo=[127.0.0.1]) by box313.bluehost.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1UKrIf-0007yq-Ai; Wed, 27 Mar 2013 08:26:02 -0600 Message-ID: <5152FD21.4040403@labn.net> Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2013 07:07:29 -0700 From: Lou Berger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130307 Thunderbird/17.0.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Gregory Mirsky References: <50E5E64A.8090105@pi.nu> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF11204DA19@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> In-Reply-To: <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF11204DA19@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5.1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Identified-User: {1038:box313.bluehost.com:labnmobi:labn.net} {sentby:smtp auth 69.89.31.113 authed with lberger@labn.net} Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , "draft-fbb-mpls-tp-p2mp-framework@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] poll to see if we have support to make draft-fbb-mpls-tp-p2mp-framework-06.txt an MPLS wg document X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2013 14:26:38 -0000 Hi Greg, Thanks for the comment. Sorry about the overdue response. The proposed revised text to address you comment is: ... describes the application of linear protection to unidirectional P2MP entities using 1+1 and 1:1 protection architecture. For 1+1, the approach is for the root of the P2MP tree to bridge the user traffic to both the working and protection entities. Each sink/leaf MPLS-TP node selects the traffic from one entity according to some predetermined criteria. For 1:1, the source/root MPLS-TP node needs to identify the existence of a fault condition on any of the branches of the network. Fault notification happens from the node idenifying the fault to the root node and from the leaves to the root via an out of band path... I think this covers it. Do you agree? Lou On 1/14/2013 7:35 PM, Gregory Mirsky wrote: > Dear All, > support > > As a note/suggestion. > > * I think that the first paragraph of the Section 6 Survivability > might be interpreted as in 1:1 protection extra traffic on > protection path is not allowed. AFAIK, in 1:1 protection traffic not > being sent on protection paths before the defect detected and the > root been informed to shift traffic onto the protection path. > > > Regards, > Greg > > -----Original Message----- > From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [_mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org_] On Behalf > Of Loa Andersson > Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2013 12:13 PM > To: mpls@ietf.org > Cc: mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; > draft-fbb-mpls-tp-p2mp-framework@tools.ietf.org > Subject: [mpls] poll to see if we have support to make > draft-fbb-mpls-tp-p2mp-framework-06.txt an MPLS wg document > > Working group, > > This is to start a two week poll on adopting > draft-fbb-mpls-tp-p2mp-framework-06 as an MPLS working group document. > > Please send your comments (support/not support) to the mpls working > group mailing list (mpls at ietf.org). Please give an technical > motivation for your support/not support, especially if you think that > the document should not be adopted as a working group document. > > This poll ends January 17, 2013. > > There are no IPR claim against this document. > > All the active co-authors has stated on the working group mailing list > that they are not aware of any other IPR claims than those already > disclosed. > > /Loa > (mpls wg co-chair) > > -- > > > Loa Andersson email: loa.andersson@ericsson.com > Sr Strategy and Standards Manager loa@pi.nu > Ericsson Inc phone: +46 10 717 52 13 > +46 767 72 92 13 > _______________________________________________ > mpls mailing list > mpls@ietf.org > _https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls_ > > > > _______________________________________________ > mpls mailing list > mpls@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > From pabloisnot@gmail.com Wed Mar 27 07:26:51 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03F9F21F918F for ; Wed, 27 Mar 2013 07:26:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UoS+Nuw2BLwt for ; Wed, 27 Mar 2013 07:26:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ve0-f170.google.com (mail-ve0-f170.google.com [209.85.128.170]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DDFA21F9182 for ; Wed, 27 Mar 2013 07:26:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ve0-f170.google.com with SMTP id 15so1441058vea.15 for ; Wed, 27 Mar 2013 07:26:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=kKnDHCbVqgVm75q0j/8o9dYP1rAvEI55EJ87wDoWXg0=; b=kxN8bDpL8Xb3kWTRiAc7mWsJzslvZZoca3tI8JjEIjZec7z94IsFUzL/BFf8XFf6Df TevgW3NNecn/Lk524/8uB+j6ZCveIvAn+xjfUtlwaknNrk7JEXqTuudPLjJIn2La5ZXM AdNHgwzc4sJEl/tsGJ3DTE+/+vjblaZGUCIPYdLeLumxsk48lhOC3JKdHMHxrAthrT07 U5AAI0pOvv8uedM7vSztcNtUTyaG+QvrGeIHfILoVNqVIxGGh6Qse/rlhtVoT/Ewb8SQ lxnJElCIhYwVyOBfmixCMf+hyhaFElVdfeAbI6uCM9MLTJKV06gx0ZnQY0P3ZpieZ8Ls fpxg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.52.21.212 with SMTP id x20mr19564745vde.106.1364394407526; Wed, 27 Mar 2013 07:26:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.97.97 with HTTP; Wed, 27 Mar 2013 07:26:47 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <22045.1364223343@erosen-linux> References: <51501F3E.2010400@pi.nu> <22045.1364223343@erosen-linux> Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2013 10:26:47 -0400 Message-ID: From: Pablo Frank To: erosen@cisco.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=20cf3079bb28fe8a7a04d8e8d328 Cc: mpls@ietf.org, draft-kompella-mpls-special-purpose-labels-02@tools.ietf.org Subject: Re: [mpls] Concerns about draft-kompella-mpls-special-purpose-labels-02 X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2013 14:26:51 -0000 --20cf3079bb28fe8a7a04d8e8d328 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 A few more comments below PF>> On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 10:55 AM, Eric Rosen wrote: > > If an unrecognized label rises to the top of the label stack, the packet > should be dropped. However, I don't think there's any requirement for a > router to drop a packet just because there's an unrecognized special > purpose > label somewhere in the stack. So if hashing is done on the entire stack, I > think Pablo is right that labels from the extended special purpose label > space will get into the hash. > > Whether that really makes any difference is another matter. > PF>> It might be useful if the authors of RFC 6790 could comment on why exactly reserved/special-purpose labels MUST NOT be included in a transit LSR's hash (afaik, this is the first normative reference that states this explicitly). Probably the key reason is for GAL. I imagine it's not very helpful to have your LM/DM packets misordered with respect to the flow that they are trying to monitor. PF>> But I wonder if this really matters for the other currently defined SPLs though and whether it will matter for future proposed SPLs. It may be *okay* if we simply note in the document that new SPLs allocated from the extended SPL space may not have this property respected by older transit LSRs. Perhaps this even becomes a criteria to determine which space you should request a new SPL from. i.e. if your proposed SPL does not require strict flow ordering wrt the LSP it is associated with, then such SPLs should be allocated out of the extended space. We may want to "protect" / "reserve" the remaining labels in the 0-14 space for uses that require strict ordering (btw, there's 8 left, not including label 15). Ironically, that has the unfortunate consequence of making this matter more urgent, not less. :-) > > Loa> I'd really would like to allocate 0-1023 after 15 for the extended > Loa> special purpose > > How about 0-63? Or 0-255? > PF>> In the long-term, it probably doesn't matter that much because hardware will adapt. In the short-term, looking at some existing hardware designs, the difference between, say, 16-1023 and 16-255 can be significant. In one NPU that I've used (not naming names but I imagine some of you can guess), having a 10-bit space could force me to use a 16-bit CAM instead of an 8-bit CAM. The difference in access-time is a factor of 4. That'll add up especially when there's at least two of these labels now. If the WG were to decide that Pablo's point is valid, one could deal with it > by treating several of the currently unused special purpose labels (I think > there are nine available) as extension labels, each identifying a new 4-bit > extended special purpose label space. That scheme would satisfy Pablo's > criteria, but would not require more than two label stack entries to > represent any of the special purpose labels. (I guess each such label > space > would have to assign 7 as the entropy label.) > > I'm not advocating this scheme, but I do think it is better than using the > cardinality of a sequence of 15's to identify a particular special purpose > label space ;-) PF>> Hey, I didn't say that I *liked* the cardinality idea. Part of the reason I suggested it was because I'm kinda hoping that we never actually get to the 2nd 15. Your suggestion works as well but it requires us to act now, whereas my (admittedly quite awful) idea lets us ignore the problem for hopefully several decades. PF>> OTOH, if my concerns about SPL misordering only applies to a sub-set of the SPLs then I'm leaning more towards a scheme where 0-14 is reserved for legacy and ordering-dependent SPLs and 16-255/1023 is made available "immediately" for less-strict uses. cheers, Pablo --20cf3079bb28fe8a7a04d8e8d328 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A few more comments below PF>>

On M= on, Mar 25, 2013 at 10:55 AM, Eric Rosen <erosen@cisco.com> w= rote:

If an unrecognized label rises to the top of the label stack, the packet should be dropped. =A0However, I don't think there's any requiremen= t for a
router to drop a packet just because there's an unrecognized special pu= rpose
label somewhere in the stack. =A0So if hashing is done on the entire stack,= I
think Pablo is right that labels from the extended special purpose label space will get into the hash.

Whether that really makes any difference is another matter.

PF>> It might be useful if the authors of RFC 67= 90 could comment on why exactly reserved/special-purpose labels MUST NOT be= included in a transit LSR's hash (afaik, this is the first normative r= eference that states this explicitly). =A0Probably the key reason is for GA= L. =A0I imagine it's not very helpful to have your LM/DM packets misord= ered with respect to the flow that they are trying to monitor. =A0

PF>> But I wonder if this really matters for the = other currently defined SPLs though and whether it will matter for future p= roposed SPLs. =A0It may be *okay* if we simply note in the document that ne= w SPLs allocated from the extended SPL space may not have this property res= pected by older transit LSRs. =A0Perhaps this even becomes a criteria to de= termine which space you should request a new SPL from. =A0i.e. if your prop= osed SPL does not require strict flow ordering wrt the LSP it is associated= with, then such SPLs should be allocated out of the extended space. =A0We = may want to "protect" / "reserve" the remaining labels = in the 0-14 space for uses that require strict ordering (btw, there's 8= left, not including =A0label 15). =A0Ironically, that has the unfortunate = consequence of making this matter more urgent, not less. =A0:-)

Loa> I'd really would like to allocate 0-1023 after 15 for the exten= ded
Loa> special purpose

How about 0-63? =A0Or 0-255?

PF>>= In the long-term, it probably doesn't matter that much because hardwar= e will adapt. =A0In the short-term, looking at some existing hardware desig= ns, the difference between, say, 16-1023 and 16-255 can be significant. =A0= In one NPU that I've used (not naming names but I imagine some of you c= an guess), having a 10-bit space could force me to use a 16-bit CAM instead= of an 8-bit CAM. =A0The difference in access-time is a factor of 4. =A0Tha= t'll add up especially when there's at least two of these labels no= w.

If the WG were to decide that= Pablo's point is valid, one could deal with it
by treating several of the currently unused special purpose labels (I think=
there are nine available) as extension labels, each identifying a new 4-bit=
extended special purpose label space. =A0That scheme would satisfy Pablo= 9;s
criteria, but would not require more than two label stack entries to
represent any of the special purpose labels. =A0(I guess each such label sp= ace
would have to assign 7 as the entropy label.)

I'm not advocating this scheme, but I do think it is better than using = the
cardinality of a sequence of 15's to identify a particular special purp= ose
label space ;-)

PF>> Hey, I didn'= t say that I *liked* the cardinality idea. =A0Part of the reason I suggeste= d it was because I'm kinda hoping that we never actually get to the 2nd= 15. =A0Your suggestion works as well but it requires us to act now, wherea= s my (admittedly quite awful) idea lets us ignore the problem for hopefully= several decades. =A0

PF>> OTOH, if my concerns about SPL misordering o= nly applies to a sub-set of the SPLs then I'm leaning more towards a sc= heme where 0-14 is reserved for legacy and ordering-dependent SPLs and 16-2= 55/1023 is made available "immediately" for less-strict uses.

cheers,
Pablo

--20cf3079bb28fe8a7a04d8e8d328-- From gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com Wed Mar 27 10:23:48 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F05021F91B6 for ; Wed, 27 Mar 2013 10:23:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Vqbn4PW3rFBV for ; Wed, 27 Mar 2013 10:23:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usevmg21.ericsson.net (usevmg21.ericsson.net [198.24.6.65]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90F0021F91A5 for ; Wed, 27 Mar 2013 10:23:32 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c6180641-b7faf6d00000096b-54-51532b13cd80 Received: from EUSAAHC002.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [147.117.188.78]) by usevmg21.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 5F.64.02411.31B23515; Wed, 27 Mar 2013 18:23:31 +0100 (CET) Received: from EUSAAMB103.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.120]) by EUSAAHC002.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.78]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.004; Wed, 27 Mar 2013 13:23:30 -0400 From: Gregory Mirsky To: Lou Berger Thread-Topic: [mpls] poll to see if we have support to make draft-fbb-mpls-tp-p2mp-framework-06.txt an MPLS wg document Thread-Index: AQHN6e7D/IbBd7ar9Uu2/4Nldm1tYpi6GjgogAAxOGA= Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2013 17:23:30 +0000 Message-ID: <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF112075454@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> References: <50E5E64A.8090105@pi.nu> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF11204DA19@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <5152FD21.4040403@labn.net> In-Reply-To: <5152FD21.4040403@labn.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [147.117.188.134] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFrrLLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyuXSPn66wdnCgQdMKS4upC3ewW3Q0v2Wx +H5pCYvFraUrWR1YPJYs+cnk8WFTM5vHl8uf2QKYo7hsUlJzMstSi/TtErgy/q+ZyFgwS6bi 8F7PBsbjol2MHBwSAiYSk7+UdTFyApliEhfurWfrYuTiEBI4wihx6nwDlLOcUeLZ0UlMIFVs AkYSLzb2sIPYIgKKEl8/LmICKWIWOMkocWHSQjaQhLBAhcSuafuYIIoqJRbf2MAIYVtJLNp4 EayZRUBVYvbn+WD1vALeEnOOfmaG2NbCKPHm+jxWkASngIZE6/oTYA2MQPd9P7UGbCizgLjE rSfzmSDuFpBYsuc8M4QtKvHy8T9WCFtZYsmT/SwQ9ToSC3Z/YoOwtSWWLXzNDLFYUOLkzCcs ExjFZiEZOwtJyywkLbOQtCxgZFnFyFFanFqWm25kuIkRGEXHJNgcdzAu+GR5iFGag0VJnDfU 9UKAkEB6YklqdmpqQWpRfFFpTmrxIUYmDk6pBsZM7rqlF/8XqxsfKStbuOz58fp/zB+e3fH/ GHRQw03xZ/3234u9W6Nmhvb1M+aJOwm1XblX5BhoJ5EfH2GwLGG1l7tJ6ddcg0XLg1bW3ZXa Wlr5SM0uaqGsRLCSU5gDi/n1TbGJr1K/JR23jduqb6iu4nlqqfL2uPsS9RbmvVejwvblN8/R VmIpzkg01GIuKk4EAIGExJ9wAgAA Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , "draft-fbb-mpls-tp-p2mp-framework@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] poll to see if we have support to make draft-fbb-mpls-tp-p2mp-framework-06.txt an MPLS wg document X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2013 17:23:48 -0000 Hi Lou, Thank you. I agree with the proposed change. Regards, Greg=20 -----Original Message----- From: Lou Berger [mailto:lberger@labn.net]=20 Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2013 7:07 AM To: Gregory Mirsky Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; draft-fbb-mpls-tp-p2mp-frame= work@tools.ietf.org Subject: Re: [mpls] poll to see if we have support to make draft-fbb-mpls-t= p-p2mp-framework-06.txt an MPLS wg document Hi Greg, Thanks for the comment. Sorry about the overdue response. The proposed revised text to address you comment is: ... describes the application of linear protection to unidirectional P2MP entities using 1+1 and 1:1 protection architecture. For 1+1, the approach is for the root of the P2MP tree to bridge the user traffic to both the working and protection entities. Each sink/leaf MPLS-TP node selects the traffic from one entity according to some predetermined criteria. For 1:1, the source/root MPLS-TP node needs to identify the existence of a fault condition on any of the branches of the network. Fault notification happens from the node idenifying the fault to the root node and from the leaves to the root via an out of band path... I think this covers it. Do you agree? Lou On 1/14/2013 7:35 PM, Gregory Mirsky wrote: > Dear All, > support > =20 > As a note/suggestion. >=20 > * I think that the first paragraph of the Section 6 Survivability > might be interpreted as in 1:1 protection extra traffic on > protection path is not allowed. AFAIK, in 1:1 protection traffic not > being sent on protection paths before the defect detected and the > root been informed to shift traffic onto the protection path. >=20 > =20 > Regards, > Greg > =20 > -----Original Message----- > From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [_mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org_] On Behalf=20 > Of Loa Andersson > Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2013 12:13 PM > To: mpls@ietf.org > Cc: mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; > draft-fbb-mpls-tp-p2mp-framework@tools.ietf.org > Subject: [mpls] poll to see if we have support to make=20 > draft-fbb-mpls-tp-p2mp-framework-06.txt an MPLS wg document > =20 > Working group, > =20 > This is to start a two week poll on adopting > draft-fbb-mpls-tp-p2mp-framework-06 as an MPLS working group document. > =20 > Please send your comments (support/not support) to the mpls working=20 > group mailing list (mpls at ietf.org). Please give an technical=20 > motivation for your support/not support, especially if you think that=20 > the document should not be adopted as a working group document. > =20 > This poll ends January 17, 2013. > =20 > There are no IPR claim against this document. > =20 > All the active co-authors has stated on the working group mailing list=20 > that they are not aware of any other IPR claims than those already=20 > disclosed. > =20 > /Loa > (mpls wg co-chair) > =20 > -- > =20 > =20 > Loa Andersson email: loa.andersson@ericsson.com > Sr Strategy and Standards Manager loa@pi.nu > Ericsson Inc phone: +46 10 717 52 13 > +46 767 72 92 13=20 > _______________________________________________ > mpls mailing list > mpls@ietf.org > _https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls_ > =20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > mpls mailing list > mpls@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls >=20 From lberger@labn.net Wed Mar 27 10:34:30 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7066A21F9215 for ; Wed, 27 Mar 2013 10:34:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.436 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.436 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.163, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PIc4uHXu2LrN for ; Wed, 27 Mar 2013 10:34:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oproxy1-pub.bluehost.com (oproxy1-pub.bluehost.com [66.147.249.253]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id A179021F9208 for ; Wed, 27 Mar 2013 10:34:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 5942 invoked by uid 0); 27 Mar 2013 17:34:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box313.bluehost.com) (69.89.31.113) by oproxy1.bluehost.com with SMTP; 27 Mar 2013 17:34:05 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=labn.net; s=default; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:Message-ID:Date:CC:To:From; bh=PMtl4BS27sjHGNXE3CSud69jwIgKrLNYkpsg2dYGl0s=; b=rzZnbrPBOTK+Qdk9jNFugf0NX0nMHmL61MrTlD2gpXmYdzIUxuV1WuTcSs5nMd50nqfYCFar1jVqXsKlfF/sbzfM/3VDyyEh5PzN659oVz/B9mrIBU88pKu70eXaPgzH; Received: from box313.bluehost.com ([69.89.31.113]:52361 helo=[127.0.0.1]) by box313.bluehost.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1UKuEe-0002LE-VN; Wed, 27 Mar 2013 11:34:05 -0600 From: Lou Berger To: Gregory Mirsky Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2013 10:34:00 -0700 Message-ID: <13dace72648.2764.9b4188e636579690ba6c69f2c8a0f1fd@labn.net> In-Reply-To: <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF112075454@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> References: <50E5E64A.8090105@pi.nu> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF11204DA19@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <5152FD21.4040403@labn.net> <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF112075454@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:9.0) Gecko/20111222 Thunderbird/9.0.1 AquaMail/1.2.2.27 (build: 2100233) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Identified-User: {1038:box313.bluehost.com:labnmobi:labn.net} {sentby:smtp auth 69.89.31.113 authed with lberger@labn.net} Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , "draft-fbb-mpls-tp-p2mp-framework@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] poll to see if we have support to make draft-fbb-mpls-tp-p2mp-framework-06.txt an MPLS wg document X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2013 17:34:30 -0000 Excellent! Lou On March 27, 2013 10:23:30 AM Gregory Mirsky wrote: > Hi Lou, > Thank you. I agree with the proposed change. > > Regards, > Greg > -----Original Message----- > From: Lou Berger [mailto:lberger@labn.net] Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2013 > 7:07 AM > To: Gregory Mirsky > Cc: mpls@ietf.org; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; > draft-fbb-mpls-tp-p2mp-framework@tools.ietf.org > Subject: Re: [mpls] poll to see if we have support to make > draft-fbb-mpls-tp-p2mp-framework-06.txt an MPLS wg document > > Hi Greg, > Thanks for the comment. Sorry about the overdue response. > > The proposed revised text to address you comment is: > > ... describes the application of linear protection to > unidirectional P2MP entities using 1+1 and 1:1 protection > architecture. For 1+1, the approach is for the root of the P2MP > tree to bridge the user traffic to both the working and > protection entities. Each sink/leaf MPLS-TP node selects the > traffic from one entity according to some predetermined > criteria. > > For 1:1, the source/root MPLS-TP node needs to identify the > existence of a fault condition on any of the branches of the > network. Fault notification happens from the node idenifying > the fault to the root node and from the leaves to the root via > an out of band path... > > I think this covers it. Do you agree? > > Lou > > On 1/14/2013 7:35 PM, Gregory Mirsky wrote: > > Dear All, > > support > > As a note/suggestion. > > * I think that the first paragraph of the Section 6 Survivability > > might be interpreted as in 1:1 protection extra traffic on > > protection path is not allowed. AFAIK, in 1:1 protection traffic not > > being sent on protection paths before the defect detected and the > > root been informed to shift traffic onto the protection path. > > Regards, > > Greg > > -----Original Message----- > > From: mpls-bounces@ietf.org [_mailto:mpls-bounces@ietf.org_] On Behalf Of > Loa Andersson > > Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2013 12:13 PM > > To: mpls@ietf.org > > Cc: mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; > > draft-fbb-mpls-tp-p2mp-framework@tools.ietf.org > > Subject: [mpls] poll to see if we have support to make > draft-fbb-mpls-tp-p2mp-framework-06.txt an MPLS wg document > > Working group, > > This is to start a two week poll on adopting > > draft-fbb-mpls-tp-p2mp-framework-06 as an MPLS working group document. > > Please send your comments (support/not support) to the mpls working group > mailing list (mpls at ietf.org). Please give an technical motivation for > your support/not support, especially if you think that the document should > not be adopted as a working group document. > > This poll ends January 17, 2013. > > There are no IPR claim against this document. > > All the active co-authors has stated on the working group mailing list > that they are not aware of any other IPR claims than those already disclosed. > > /Loa > > (mpls wg co-chair) > > -- > > Loa Andersson email: loa.andersson@ericsson.com > > Sr Strategy and Standards Manager loa@pi.nu > > Ericsson Inc phone: +46 10 717 52 13 > > +46 767 72 92 13 > > _______________________________________________ > > mpls mailing list > > mpls@ietf.org > > _https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls_ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > mpls mailing list > > mpls@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls > > From gregory.mirsky@ericsson.com Wed Mar 27 15:53:16 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D66D821F8F46 for ; Wed, 27 Mar 2013 15:53:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=x tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8uJCoWm6+zNc for ; Wed, 27 Mar 2013 15:53:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usevmg20.ericsson.net (usevmg20.ericsson.net [198.24.6.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0BD621F8F1F for ; Wed, 27 Mar 2013 15:53:08 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c618062d-b7f0d6d00000097e-d8-515378505876 Received: from EUSAAHC002.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [147.117.188.78]) by usevmg20.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 13.71.02430.15873515; Wed, 27 Mar 2013 23:53:06 +0100 (CET) Received: from EUSAAMB103.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.120]) by EUSAAHC002.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.78]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.004; Wed, 27 Mar 2013 18:53:04 -0400 From: Gregory Mirsky To: "curtis@occnc.com" Thread-Topic: MPLS-RT review of draft-villamizar-mpls-forwarding Thread-Index: AQHOGo4M4BKS76tCWU2P10gtMdj67Zi6QwKw Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2013 22:53:03 +0000 Message-ID: <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF112075613@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> References: Your message of "Mon, 04 Mar 2013 17:32:36 GMT." <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF11206C7A0@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <201303061714.r26HEOiO042435@gateway1.orleans.occnc.com> In-Reply-To: <201303061714.r26HEOiO042435@gateway1.orleans.occnc.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [147.117.188.134] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="_005_7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF112075613eusaamb103ericsso_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFprMKsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyuXSPn25QRXCgwYmvyhaHD0xnt+g6MYPV omnOZkaLf3PnMFvc2fWF1eL7pSUsFreWrmS1uLugicXi4eRL7A6cHq3P9rJ6TPm9kdVjyZKf TB5bnyxh91j8xc9j1vQ2No+2lwoeXy5/ZgvgiOKySUnNySxLLdK3S+DKOLBnEnvBmRNaFaeW /2FqYJw9TbOLkZNDQsBE4umF7WwQtpjEhXvrwWwhgSOMEhunZXQxcgHZyxkl5l74zQ6SYBMw knixsQfMFhHQlPg7aTOYzSywmlli0xMvEFtYwF5iwZtJbBA1DhJTu/pZIGwjiZUNU8FsFgFV ib7fp8BsXgFvib0HTjFBLD7KKHFgUS6IzSngKrG39RpYDSPQcd9PrWGC2CUucevJfCaIo0Uk Hl48DfWAqMTLx/9YIWxliSVP9rNA1GdKTGlrZ4XYJShxcuYTlgmMorOQjJqFpGwWkjKIeL7E 3MvdjBC2jsSC3Z/YIGxtiWULXzPD2GcOPGbCFA+XOPXtJFSvmcSVfXeBbC4g+xCjxIeWtVAN ihJTuh+yQ9heErvm34UbtHjzVqhlWxklVmznRla/gFFgFSNHaXFqWW66kcEmRmDCOibBpruD cc9Ly0OM0hwsSuK8Qa4XAoQE0hNLUrNTUwtSi+KLSnNSiw8xMnFwSjUwyv5q+/H62q1tb/mO Ru6IvJD6QcCy4PS8hXMlBIxKZONuT3RMbyyX7rpWWXRUbKnbVKXTLsbv7H2enhfLOd3UszZM IH4V16vbFyofrW+7LOjOcm1xwxOlbiaN9lkmZjFrnY/yPZaoE2Pewfa22rUhi+V9flNRb2S9 +w3JzfrHFNYetGWt6PyixFKckWioxVxUnAgAxRXpNyYDAAA= Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" , "draft-villamizar-mpls-forwarding@tools.ietf.org" , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-villamizar-mpls-forwarding X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2013 22:53:16 -0000 --_005_7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF112075613eusaamb103ericsso_ Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF112075613eusaamb103ericsso_" --_000_7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF112075613eusaamb103ericsso_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Curtis, back to our discussion on 1588overMPLS. I've attached slide from deck prese= nted at TICTOC meeting in Orlando as illustration of what I mean by "PTP di= stribution through MPLS network". PTP/NTP Transport over MPLS network can be done without any special PTP LSP= (another slide from the same deck) Regards, Greg -----Original Message----- From: Curtis Villamizar [mailto:curtis@occnc.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2013 9:14 AM To: Gregory Mirsky Cc: curtis@occnc.com; mpls@ietf.org; draft-villamizar-mpls-forwarding@tools= .ietf.org; Loa Andersson; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; Martin Vigoureux; Eri= c Osborne (eosborne); Thomas Nadeau; Thomas Beckhaus Subject: Re: MPLS-RT review of draft-villamizar-mpls-forwarding In message <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF11206C7A0@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> Gregory Mirsky writes: > > Curtis > > > Greg I fixed this for consistent quoting. > Hi Curtis, > I've snipped RT part. Please find my notes in-lined tagged by GIM>> > > Regards, > Greg > > [...] Thanks. See inline. Curtis > > > As I read the document I put some notes that you might consider as > > > regular comments: > > > > > > Need to build list of acronyms > > > > Will do. I'll look to RFC 5513 for guidance. > > > > > Section 1.2, bullet 5 > > > With definition of Control Channel Type 4 in PW VCCV "MUST" can be > > > changed to "SHOULD". The last sentence might be reworded to > > > "Deployments SHOULD allow enabling and disabling use of PW Control > > > Word". > > > > Please notice the phrase "if MPLS-TP is supported or if ACH is being > > used on a pseudowire [RFC5586]." MPLS-TP and RFC5586 (G-ACh and > > GAL) are cited as the reason for this requirement being a MUST. > > > > In rereading this I notice that we should add "The implementor and > > system designer SHOULD support pseudowire control word if MPLS-TP > > and > > RFC5586 are not used [RFC5085]." > > GIM>> Even though RFC 5586 excluded GAL from being used on MPLS -TP > PWs, I believe that there's rough agreement in PWE3 WG that PW VCCV > Control Channel Type 4 will be applicable to MPLS-TP PWs when Type 1 > (ACH) not in use. Hence was my suggestion to change from "MUST" to > "SHOULD". Then, since PW CW is SHOULD, we need to say something about > GAL, PW VCCV Control Channel Type 4. I'd put it at SHOULD too with > addition of "deployments SHOULD be able to use Type 4 Control Channel > is use of PW CW is not mandatory". Some implementations predate RFC5586 but comply to RFC5085. Those implemen= tations SHOULD support CW. Those implementations using MPLS-TP and RFC5586= MUST support CW. > > That should make it more clear (SHOULD if RFC5085 compliant only, > > MUST if using MPLS-TP and/or RFC5586 compliant). The entire bullet would be changed to: 5. The implementor and system designer MUST support pseudowire control word if MPLS-TP is supported or if ACH is being used on a pseudowire [RFC5586]. Deployments SHOULD enable pseudowire control word. See Section 2.4.1. Implementations which predate [RFC5586] but comply to only [RFC5085] SHOULD support pseudowire control word. Is that now sufficiently clear with the wording about predating RFC5586 and supporting only RFC5085? > > > Section 1.3, bullet 4 > > > Can these tests or any subset of them be viewed as MPLS forwarding > > > performance benchmarking tests (BMWG)? > > > > Al Morton (BMWG chair) is aware of this work and has forwarded a > > pointer to BMWG. Jay Karthik commented on BMWG. Work is to > > continue in MPLS, but when things have settled down, BMWG may apply > > the level of rigor they normally apply to assure consistent testing > > where there is sufficient interest in standardizing test procedures. > > > > > Section 2.1.1 > > > Reference to Extended Special Purpose MPLS Labels in the section? > > > > If and when it becomes a WG document. There is no dependency on > > that draft and it is best to not refer to work that may not advance. > > Keep in mind that draft-kompella-mpls-special-purpose-labels changes > > the use of reserved labels, by assigning new meaning to label 15. > > > > BTW- I think draft-kompella-mpls-special-purpose-label is good work > > and IMO it should go through this WG RT process and a call should be > > made to make it a WG document. > > > > > Section 2.1.3 > > > First sentence: I think that "MPLS LSP may be used to carry NTP or > > > PTP and synchronize clocks ..." might be closer to the goal of > > > 1588overmpls document. > > > > I'm not sure what your objection is. Here is the paragraph sentence > > by sentence with annotation. > > > > PTP or NTP may be carried over MPLS [I-D.ietf-tictoc-1588overmpls]. > > GIM>> I think of "carried over" as Ethernet carried over MPLS in > PW. The purpose of 1588overMPLS is not only carry NTP or PTP over MPLS > domain but to distribute clock synchronization according to > capabilities of LSRs. PTP is defined as independent of what it is carried over. IEEE made specif= ic recommendations regarding carrying PTP over Ethernet and IP. NTP was defined as running over IP. draft-ietf-tictoc-1588overmpls exists = solely to allow either PTP or NTP to run directly over MPLS. For example, draft-ietf-tictoc-1588overmpls would allow PTP over MPLS over = GFP over ODU4, where there is no Ethernet header or IP header anywhere in t= he packet. I don't think we have to say "carried over MPLS and something useful done a= t the other end". There is no purpose in carrying NTP or PTP over MPLS and= discarding the packet at the egress. The "do something useful" part shoul= d be obvious, and if not the reader can refer to the cited draft. > > That is exactly as you pointed out. I'm a little concerned that > > this work may have stalled. > > > > Generally NTP will be carried within IP with IP carried in MPLS > > [RFC5905]. > > > > That says that NTP has traditionally gone over IP with IP > > carried over MPLS. I don't think there is an argument there. > > > > Both PTP and NTP benefit from accurate time stamping of incoming > > packets and the ability to insert accurate time stamps in outgoing > > packets. > > > > I don't think anyone would argue this point. > > > > Could you point out what you think needs to be changed? Is it some > > other paragraph? > > GIM>> Don't think that these are my notes. I had only one comment to > section 2.1.3 Not they are not your notes. See above where I stated "I'm not sure what y= our objection is. Here is the paragraph sentence by sentence with annotati= on. Also note the depth of quoting. Since your followup was to the first sentence, I think that your objection = was to that sentence. If you are OK with the notion that "doing something = useful at the other end" is implied, then we can move on. > > > Section 2.1.7 > > > Could the section be named "MPLS-TE Local Protection" or "MPLS-TE > > > Fast Reroute" as RFC 4090 is applicable only to RSVP-TE signaled LSP. > > > > RFC4090 has always been known within the IETF as MPLS Fast Reroute > > or MPLS FRR. If at some point there is acceptance of IPFRR and > > extensions to IPFRR to support LDP, then mpls-forwarding-bis can > > rename these sections. > > > > [...] > > > > > Section 2.4 > > > The last paragraph seams repetitive of third paragraph. Perhaps > > > the last one can be merged into the third as: > > > > > > In order to support an adequately balanced load distribution acros= s > > > multiple links, IP header information must be used. Common > > > practice today is to reinspect the IP headers at each LSR and use > > > the label stack and IP header information in a hash performed at > > > each LSR in the network, combined with a hash seed that is selecte= d > > > by each LSR. Where flow labels or entropy labels are used, a hash > > > seed must be used. Further details are provided in Section 2.4.5. > > > > The last paragraph is about the hash seed. It could be shortenned > > to get rid of the redundancy yet keep discussion of the hash seed > > separate. > > > > Common practice today is to reinspect the packet at each LSR and > > use information from the packet combined with a hash seed that is > > selected by each LSR. Where flow labels or entropy labels are > > used, a hash seed must be used when creating these labels. > > > > Is that OK with you? > > GIM>> Thank you, it works. > > > > Section 2.4.5.1 > > > bullet 3: Following on draft-kompella-mpls-special-purpose-labels- > > > would suggest changing "reserved labels" to "special purpose labels= " > > > with note that these might be of one MPLS label element length or > > > two elements (extension label + extended special purpose label). > > > > For now we are not citing draft-kompella-mpls-special-purpose-labels > > When (if) it becomes draft-ietf-mpls-special-purpose-labels, we'll > > make changes. > > > > Note that Kireeti is a co-author of this document and is OK with that. > > GIM>> Clearly it is up to authors how to select terminology. I just > noticed that "special purpose labels" becomes more and more used vs. > "reserved labels". There is no RFC that defines special purpose labels. RFC3032 and http://ww= w.iana.org refer to "reserved labels". Until there is at least a WG doc de= fining special purpose labels this document will call them reserved labels.= If/when there is a WG doc, then it is easy to change. > > > bullet 5: I believe it is possible that first nibble of MAC is > > > either 4 or 6. If that is the case, then use of the first nibble of > > > the payload to determine its type and apply casting might cause > > > re-ordering for Ethernet PWs. Perhaps it can be provided as > > > rationale to control whether node performs first nibble > > > interpretation or not. > > > > Note the wording "an implementation SHOULD support the ability", and > > the statement "If supported, there MUST be a way to disable it (if, > > for example, PW without CW are used)." > > > > The "MUST be able to disable it" (sic) covers the case where a MAC > > starts with 4 or 6 in the first nibble. > > > > Also note that the xml has the following comment: > > > > > > > > We didn't cite draft-ietf-pwe3-vccv-impl-survey-results because the > > draft seems to be stuck. Andy is co-author and PWE3 chair and he's > > OK with this. If it gets unstuck we'll add a sentence. > > > > > Section 2.6.4 or 2.6.5 > > > Whether in discussing MPLS-TP OAM or MPLS OAM and Layer 2 OAM > > > interworking might discuss issue of MPLS-TP CC interval matching > > > CCM intervals in IEEE 802.1ag/Y.1731 and difference in determining > > > Loss of Connectivity between BFD-based CC and Ethernet OAM. > > > > I think that is too much detail on OAM. If there is an OAM > > interworking document that we can cite, then please point it out. > > For now, we cite the documents that exist: > > > > RFC6670, RFC6310, draft-ietf-pwe3-mpls-eth-oam-iwk (just about out > > of the IESG, so an RFC soon). > > > > In IETF there is only one MPLS-TP OAM. We are not going to fight > > that battle in this document. > > > > If 802.1ag/Y.1731 is a server layer, then MPLS-TP timers have to be > > set a half decimal order of magnitude or more longer. If PW is a > > server layer, then 802.1ag/Y.1731 timers have to be set a half > > decimal order of magnitude or more longer. But this level of detail > > does not belong here. > > > > [...] --_000_7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF112075613eusaamb103ericsso_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Curtis,
back to our discussion on 1588overMPLS. I've attached slide from deck = presented at TICTOC meeting in Orlando as illustration of what I mean by &q= uot;PTP distribution through MPLS network".
PTP/NTP Transport over MPLS network can be done without any special PT= P LSP (another slide from the same deck)
 
        Regards,
           &nbs= p;    Greg
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Curtis Villamizar [mailto:curtis@occnc.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2013 9:14 AM
To: Gregory Mirsky
Cc: curtis@occnc.com; mpls@ietf.org; draft-villamizar-mpls-forwarding@= tools.ietf.org; Loa Andersson; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; Martin Vigoureux= ; Eric Osborne (eosborne); Thomas Nadeau; Thomas Beckhaus
Subject: Re: MPLS-RT review of draft-villamizar-mpls-forwarding
 
 
In message <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF11206C7A0@eusaamb103.erics= son.se>
Gregory Mirsky writes:
> > Curtis
> > > Greg
 
I fixed this for consistent quoting.
 
> Hi Curtis,
> I've snipped RT part. Please find my notes in-lined tagged by GIM= >>
> 
>         Regards,
>           =       Greg
> 
> [...]
 
Thanks.  See inline.
 
Curtis
 
> > > As I read the document I put some notes that you might = consider as
> > > regular comments:
> > >
> > > Need to build list of acronyms
> > 
> > Will do.  I'll look to RFC 5513 for guidance.
> > 
> > > Section 1.2, bullet 5
> > > With definition of Control Channel Type 4 in PW VCCV &q= uot;MUST" can be
> > > changed to "SHOULD". The last sentence might = be reworded to
> > > "Deployments SHOULD allow enabling and disabling u= se of PW Control
> > > Word".
> > 
> > Please notice the phrase "if MPLS-TP is supported or if= ACH is being
> > used on a pseudowire [RFC5586]."  MPLS-TP and RFC5= 586 (G-ACh and
> > GAL) are cited as the reason for this requirement being a MU= ST.
> > 
> > In rereading this I notice that we should add "The impl= ementor and
> > system designer SHOULD support pseudowire control word if MP= LS-TP
> > and
> > RFC5586 are not used [RFC5085]." 
> 
> GIM>> Even though RFC 5586 excluded GAL from being used on = MPLS -TP
> PWs, I believe that there's rough agreement in PWE3 WG that PW VC= CV
> Control Channel Type 4 will be applicable to MPLS-TP PWs when Typ= e 1
> (ACH) not in use. Hence was my suggestion to change from "MU= ST" to
> "SHOULD". Then, since PW CW is SHOULD, we need to say s= omething about
> GAL, PW VCCV Control Channel Type 4. I'd put it at SHOULD too wit= h
> addition of "deployments SHOULD be able to use Type 4 Contro= l Channel
> is use of PW CW is not mandatory".
 
Some implementations predate RFC5586 but comply to RFC5085.  Thos= e implementations SHOULD support CW.  Those implementations using MPLS= -TP and RFC5586 MUST support CW.
 
> > That should make it more clear (SHOULD if RFC5085 compliant = only,
> > MUST if using MPLS-TP and/or RFC5586 compliant).
 
The entire bullet would be changed to:
 
   5.  The implementor and system designer MUST support= pseudowire
       control word if MPLS-TP is suppor= ted or if ACH is being used on
       a pseudowire [RFC5586].  Dep= loyments SHOULD enable pseudowire
       control word.  See Section 2= .4.1.  Implementations which
       predate [RFC5586] but comply to o= nly [RFC5085] SHOULD support
       pseudowire control word.
 
Is that now sufficiently clear with the wording about predating
RFC5586 and supporting only RFC5085?
 
> > > Section 1.3, bullet 4
> > > Can these tests or any subset of them be viewed as MPLS= forwarding
> > > performance benchmarking tests (BMWG)?
> > 
> > Al Morton (BMWG chair) is aware of this work and has forward= ed a
> > pointer to BMWG.  Jay Karthik commented on BMWG.  = Work is to
> > continue in MPLS, but when things have settled down, BMWG ma= y apply
> > the level of rigor they normally apply to assure consistent = testing
> > where there is sufficient interest in standardizing test pro= cedures.
> > 
> > > Section 2.1.1
> > > Reference to Extended Special Purpose MPLS Labels in th= e section?
> > 
> > If and when it becomes a WG document.  There is no depe= ndency on
> > that draft and it is best to not refer to work that may not = advance. 
> > Keep in mind that draft-kompella-mpls-special-purpose-labels= changes
> > the use of reserved labels, by assigning new meaning to labe= l 15.
> > 
> > BTW- I think draft-kompella-mpls-special-purpose-label is go= od work
> > and IMO it should go through this WG RT process and a call s= hould be
> > made to make it a WG document.
> > 
> > > Section 2.1.3
> > > First sentence: I think that "MPLS LSP may be used= to carry NTP or
> > > PTP and synchronize clocks ..." might be closer to= the goal of
> > > 1588overmpls document.
> > 
> > I'm not sure what your objection is.  Here is the parag= raph sentence
> > by sentence with annotation.
> > 
> >    PTP or NTP may be carried over MPLS [I-D.i= etf-tictoc-1588overmpls].
> 
> GIM>> I think of "carried over" as Ethernet carri= ed over MPLS in
> PW. The purpose of 1588overMPLS is not only carry NTP or PTP over= MPLS
> domain but to distribute clock synchronization according to
> capabilities of LSRs.
 
PTP is defined as independent of what it is carried over.  IEEE m= ade specific recommendations regarding carrying PTP over Ethernet and IP.
NTP was defined as running over IP.  draft-ietf-tictoc-1588overmp= ls exists solely to allow either PTP or NTP to run directly over MPLS.
 
For example, draft-ietf-tictoc-1588overmpls would allow PTP over MPLS = over GFP over ODU4, where there is no Ethernet header or IP header anywhere= in the packet.
 
I don't think we have to say "carried over MPLS and something use= ful done at the other end".  There is no purpose in carrying NTP = or PTP over MPLS and discarding the packet at the egress.  The "d= o something useful" part should be obvious, and if not the reader can refer to the cited draft.
 
> >       That is exactly as you p= ointed out.  I'm a little concerned that
> >       this work may have stall= ed.
> > 
> >    Generally NTP will be carried within IP wi= th IP carried in MPLS
> >    [RFC5905].
> > 
> >       That says that NTP has t= raditionally gone over IP with IP
> >       carried over MPLS. = I don't think there is an argument there.
> > 
> >    Both PTP and NTP benefit from accurate tim= e stamping of incoming
> >    packets and the ability to insert accurate= time stamps in outgoing
> >    packets.
> > 
> >       I don't think anyone wou= ld argue this point.
> > 
> > Could you point out what you think needs to be changed? = ; Is it some
> > other paragraph?
> 
> GIM>> Don't think that these are my notes. I had only one c= omment to
> section 2.1.3
 
Not they are not your notes.  See above where I stated "I'm = not sure what your objection is.  Here is the paragraph sentence by se= ntence with annotation.  Also note the depth of quoting.
 
Since your followup was to the first sentence, I think that your objec= tion was to that sentence.  If you are OK with the notion that "d= oing something useful at the other end" is implied, then we can move o= n.
 
> > > Section 2.1.7
> > > Could the section be named "MPLS-TE Local Protecti= on" or "MPLS-TE
> > > Fast Reroute" as RFC 4090 is applicable only to RS= VP-TE signaled LSP.
> > 
> > RFC4090 has always been known within the IETF as MPLS Fast R= eroute
> > or MPLS FRR.  If at some point there is acceptance of I= PFRR and
> > extensions to IPFRR to support LDP, then mpls-forwarding-bis= can
> > rename these sections.
> > 
> > [...]
> > 
> > > Section 2.4
> > > The last paragraph seams repetitive of third paragraph.= Perhaps
> > > the last one can be merged into the third as:
> > >
> > >    In order to support an adequately bal= anced load distribution across
> > >    multiple links, IP header information= must be used.  Common
> > >    practice today is to reinspect the IP= headers at each LSR and use
> > >    the label stack and IP header informa= tion in a hash performed at
> > >    each LSR in the network, combined wit= h a hash seed that is selected
> > >    by each LSR.  Where flow labels = or entropy labels are used, a hash
> > >    seed must be used. Further details ar= e provided in Section 2.4.5.
> > 
> > The last paragraph is about the hash seed.  It could be= shortenned
> > to get rid of the redundancy yet keep discussion of the hash= seed
> > separate.
> > 
> >    Common practice today is to reinspect the = packet at each LSR and
> >    use information from the packet combined w= ith a hash seed that is
> >    selected by each LSR.  Where flow lab= els or entropy labels are
> >    used, a hash seed must be used when creati= ng these labels.
> > 
> > Is that OK with you?
> 
> GIM>> Thank you, it works.
> 
> > > Section 2.4.5.1
> > > bullet 3: Following on draft-kompella-mpls-special-purp= ose-labels-
> > >   would suggest changing "reserved label= s" to "special purpose labels"
> > >   with note that these might be of one MPLS l= abel element length or
> > >   two elements (extension label + extende= d special purpose label).
> > 
> > For now we are not citing draft-kompella-mpls-special-purpos= e-labels
> > When (if) it becomes draft-ietf-mpls-special-purpose-labels,= we'll
> > make changes.
> > 
> > Note that Kireeti is a co-author of this document and is OK = with that.
> 
> GIM>> Clearly it is up to authors how to select terminology= . I just
> noticed that "special purpose labels" becomes more and = more used vs.
> "reserved labels".
 
There is no RFC that defines special purpose labels.  RFC3032 and= http://www.iana.or= g refer to "reserved labels".  Until there is= at least a WG doc defining special purpose labels this document will call them reserved labels.  If/when there is a WG doc, t= hen it is easy to change.
 
> > > bullet 5: I believe it is possible that first nibble of= MAC is
> > >   either 4 or 6. If that is the case, then us= e of the first nibble of
> > >   the payload to determine its type and apply= casting might cause
> > >   re-ordering for Ethernet PWs. Perhaps it ca= n be provided as
> > >   rationale to control whether node performs = first nibble
> > >   interpretation or not.
> > 
> > Note the wording "an implementation SHOULD support the = ability", and
> > the statement "If supported, there MUST be a way to dis= able it (if,
> > for example, PW without CW are used)."
> > 
> > The "MUST be able to disable it" (sic) covers the = case where a MAC
> > starts with 4 or 6 in the first nibble.
> > 
> > Also note that the xml has the following comment:
> > 
> >    <!--
> >    draft-ietf-pwe3-vccv-impl-survey-results r= ecommends that the
> >    control word always be used.  Some se= rvice providers require
> >    control word support for all encapsulation= s, and always use it.
> >    -->
> > 
> > We didn't cite draft-ietf-pwe3-vccv-impl-survey-results beca= use the
> > draft seems to be stuck.  Andy is co-author and PWE3 ch= air and he's
> > OK with this.  If it gets unstuck we'll add a sentence.=
> > 
> > > Section 2.6.4 or 2.6.5
> > > Whether in discussing MPLS-TP OAM or MPLS OAM and Layer= 2 OAM
> > > interworking might discuss issue of MPLS-TP CC interval= matching
> > > CCM intervals in IEEE 802.1ag/Y.1731 and difference in = determining
> > > Loss of Connectivity between BFD-based CC and Ethernet = OAM.
> > 
> > I think that is too much detail on OAM.  If there is an= OAM
> > interworking document that we can cite, then please point it= out. 
> > For now, we cite the documents that exist:
> > 
> >   RFC6670, RFC6310, draft-ietf-pwe3-mpls-eth-oam-i= wk (just about out
> >   of the IESG, so an RFC soon).
> > 
> > In IETF there is only one MPLS-TP OAM.  We are not goin= g to fight
> > that battle in this document.
> > 
> > If 802.1ag/Y.1731 is a server layer, then MPLS-TP timers hav= e to be
> > set a half decimal order of magnitude or more longer.  = If PW is a
> > server layer, then 802.1ag/Y.1731 timers have to be set a ha= lf
> > decimal order of magnitude or more longer.  But this le= vel of detail
> > does not belong here.
> > 
> > [...]
 
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AQAAoKkAAAAAAABQAG8AdwBlAHIAUABvAGkAbgB0ACAARABvAGMAdQBtAGUAbgB0AAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAKAACAf///////////////wAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACEBAACJYQAAAAAAAAUARABvAGMAdQBtAGUAbgB0AFMAdQBtAG0AYQByAHkA SQBuAGYAbwByAG0AYQB0AGkAbwBuAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA4AAIBBAAAAP//////////AAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAApwEAAAAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD///////// //////8AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAP///////////////wAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAA== --_005_7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF112075613eusaamb103ericsso_-- From curtis@occnc.com Thu Mar 28 07:12:35 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAFE121F8EFE for ; Thu, 28 Mar 2013 07:12:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.045 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.045 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.450, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ax0Sb5pQjUNa for ; Thu, 28 Mar 2013 07:12:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gateway1.orleans.occnc.com (unknown [173.9.106.132]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50D9821F8EFD for ; Thu, 28 Mar 2013 07:12:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from harbor1.ipv6.occnc.com (harbor1.ipv6.occnc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1545::2:819]) (authenticated bits=0) by gateway1.orleans.occnc.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r2SEBHJk058442; Thu, 28 Mar 2013 10:11:17 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from curtis@occnc.com) Message-Id: <201303281411.r2SEBHJk058442@gateway1.orleans.occnc.com> To: Jeff Wheeler From: Curtis Villamizar In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 26 Mar 2013 04:58:09 EDT." Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2013 10:11:17 -0400 Cc: MPLS Subject: Re: [mpls] comments on draft-kompella-mpls-special-purpose-labels-02 X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: curtis@occnc.com List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2013 14:12:35 -0000 In message Jeff Wheeler writes: > On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 10:06 PM, Curtis Villamizar wrote: > > The point is that currently an LSR with a smaller that 2^20 (roughly 1 > > million) ILM that is table based, can insure that all label forwarded > > to it by legitimate traffic falls within its ILM table. > > You expressed concern that some hardware would be unable to cope with > reserved labels 16-1023 but could cope with [15][X] and I disagree. > If Entropy Labels doesn't break this hardware, then neither will any > possible expanded reserved label scheme -- except those that make the > label stack too deep. > > This draft makes the label stack deeper. There is zero benefit to > that. I'll respond to your other remarks below, as you've actually > argued my position for me. > > > I don't think we are supposed to mention vendor products, but ... > > > > I worked closely with two chip vendors. Both of their high end chip > > This working group is basing an obviously bad design decision on the > assumption that some hardware exists that somehow could not cope with > simply expanding the reserved label range from 0-15 to 0-1023. > > If these hardware makers are concerned about their products > inter-operating, then they should speak up. It shouldn't be your > responsibility. > > I argue that there are zero such chips deployed with such an > incredibly stupid design that they would, in any way, break if the > 0-15 range is just made 0-Bigger. > > 0-Bigger is technically superior, in every way, to the 15 prefix > proposed in this draft. You are obviously not getting what is being proposed. Please start by more carefully reading draft-kompella-mpls-special-purpose-labels-02 An extension label MUST be followed by another label L (and thus MUST have the bottom-of-stack bit clear). L MUST be interpreted as an "extended special purpose label" from a new registry created by this document (see Section 5). Whether or not L has the bottom-of-stack bit set depends on whether other labels follow L. Only L is interpreted as an extended special purpose label; labels following L are interpreted as normal. All I'm suggesting to change this is that we restrict L to be in the range 16-1023 rather than use the whole 20 bit range. No one at all it proposing just increasing the range from 0-15 to 0-1023. I hope that is now clear. If the LSR can't handle any new extension and 15+L is on top of stack, it will barf (drop packet) either on the 15 (doesn't support extensions at all) or barf on L (doesn't support that extension). Any extension has to state in the RFC how this is avoided (for example, RFC6790 has a negociation between ingress and egress that prevents an egress having to POP an ELI and EL if it doesn't support that aspect of RFC6790 forwarding. The other concern is hashing for multipath. If the LSR doesn't handle ELI (and even if it does since RFC6790 says SHOULD in this case), it could hash on the EL (and maybe even the ELI) and keep going. Also if it doesn't know about the "extension label" then it will hash on L and may even hash on the 15. Any proposals to use the extension label (or any existing special purpose label aka reserved label) needs to also consider this backwards compatibility issue. Any provider making use of extensions must consider what is written about backwards compatibility in the RFC that define the extension and then also consider what their existing installed base of LSR will do. The provider always has the option to disable any new extension that would have bad effects due to older LSR in their network and all they lose is the potential benefit of the extension. > If you want to do the technically inferior solution, then please > justify it. Otherwise, let these makers of old or badly-designed > chips express their concern. See above. > > Bad hardware is no reason to not move forward. In 2000 there were > > plenty of routers in the field that could not forward MPLS at all. > > You can't argue that "bad hardware is no reason to move forward," but > then support a bad design, like this 15 prefix before new reserved > labels; and justify it by saying there is some hardware that can't > support an extended range. > > Which do you want? Supporting the bad hardware that no one has been > able to name, and no one has even claimed exists, even without naming > it? > > Or would you like a technically superior solution, which is very > simply, changing 0-15 to 0-1023 (or whatever value is agreeable.) The reason we should not extend the range is that the values 16-1023 can still be used as forwarding labels if they are not followed by 15. Older LSR would commonly request labels starting with 16 and up making the simple range extension highly problematic. If something like GAL is proposed, then an upgraded LSR could potentially send a special purpose label to an older LSR that is using that label as a forwarding label. > Making the label stack deeper for no reason is really stupid. If you > can show some reason to do it, I am certainly willing to listen. "Bad > hardware" that no one claims exists in the field is not a reason. But we are making it one deeper for a good reason and only when/if some future, yet to be defined extensions use the 15+L extension mechanism. At that time the WG can decide whether backwards compatibility is sufficiently considered and a network operator can decide whether to deploy it given their installed base. For many existing hardware designs, the ability to skip 0-15 in the hash is quite easy to implement, if they don't already to that. Skipping 15+L is not that much harder to do. A lot of chips today have full access to the first 256 bytes anywhere in the pipeline and can skip a few (same as they can skip an entire header). Some of the hashing engines are very limited and this will have to be considered in the backwards compatibility section of any RFC defining an extension, whether using the 0-14 range or using 15+L. > > I would like to see 15 followed by 0-15 be declared to be an error. > > I disagree strongly with the 15 prefix concept. However, if it does > keep momentum, I agree that [15][15] should be undefined behavior, and > that should be explicitly documented as undefined. This covers > routers that don't know about 15. > > -- > Jeff S Wheeler > Sr Network Operator / Innovative Network Concepts Curtis From lizho.jin@gmail.com Thu Mar 28 07:31:01 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36BDE21F8D2E for ; Thu, 28 Mar 2013 07:31:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9K+Ub10Jo-kE for ; Thu, 28 Mar 2013 07:31:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qa0-f43.google.com (mail-qa0-f43.google.com [209.85.216.43]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7362C21F8DA6 for ; Thu, 28 Mar 2013 07:31:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qa0-f43.google.com with SMTP id l8so1573425qaq.9 for ; Thu, 28 Mar 2013 07:30:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=NNlb/XPg/AjxrpJihYfnVWVZ+wHRtaK662D29H8soVw=; b=IASlySTVGrWv6LOzT2p/uecwvfbVTPWTUHGT6Kbktzh4RLA9Dure+nOFr8rkwRC02w lJbS8Wq7STqPtpKujly+ZQARroXS9S9ZwBA+TfHJkw5oTWO/bPV9oI6yjV3+cxVQEkF4 TriFXfWHxW2Y7EmgEwqrVDacKhbQvu5S2nU1uhbiIazn0zzjPa7JqJ8q2gcWkTmxiDOH hbpAiRo6yX3M0rJPDk8RC89azFzwTAkXcTc5GbHKdPBaZbtL9P6NgEVNyzRBvOkSHFs4 votvRjqJp4McDWCH9pQZBaybjQ/r1d5uzKKcvGYckfR5EZJInsskN7fgGlNjtjQg/39H tzvw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.229.111.130 with SMTP id s2mr1935719qcp.91.1364481059800; Thu, 28 Mar 2013 07:30:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.49.94.49 with HTTP; Thu, 28 Mar 2013 07:30:59 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <513E1C97.3050208@pi.nu> References: <513E1C97.3050208@pi.nu> Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2013 22:30:59 +0800 Message-ID: From: Lizhong Jin To: Loa Andersson , draft-pac-mpls-lsp-ping-tlvs-and-sub-tlvs-registry@tools.ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=002354471764df6bb104d8fd0069 Cc: mpls@ietf.org, "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-pac-mpls-lsp-ping-tlvs-and-sub-tlvs-registry-00.txt X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2013 14:31:01 -0000 --002354471764df6bb104d8fd0069 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi, all I reviewed this draft, and think the document is useful, and is ready to be considered for WG adoption. One minor comments, this draft should be an update to RFC4379, and should be reflected at the beginning of the draft. Then does that mean this draft should be moved faster than any other drafts that require sub-tlv allocation. Regards Lizhong On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 2:04 AM, Loa Andersson wrote: > > Dan, Xu, Lizhong and Rajiv, > > You have been selected as an MPLS Review team reviewers for > draft-pac-mpls-lsp-ping-tlvs-**and-sub-tlvs-registry-00. > > Note to authors: You have been CC'd on this email so that you can know > that this review is going on. However, please do not review your own > document. > > Reviews should comment on whether the document is coherent, is it > useful (ie, is it likely to be actually useful in operational > networks), and is the document technically sound? We are interested > in knowing whether the document is ready to be considered for WG > adoption (ie, it doesn't have to be perfect at this point, but should be > a good start). > > Reviews should be sent to the document authors, WG co-chairs and > WG secretary, and CC'd to the MPLS WG email list. If necessary, comments > may be sent privately to only the WG chairs. > > Are you able to review this draft by April 2, 2013? > > Thanks, Loa > (as MPLS WG chair) > > /Loa > -- > > > Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com > Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu > Huawei Technologies (consult) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 > --002354471764df6bb104d8fd0069 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi, all
I reviewed this draft, and think the document is=A0useful= , and=A0is ready to be considered for WG=A0adoption. One minor comments, th= is draft should be an update to RFC4379, and should be reflected at the beg= inning of the draft. Then does that mean this draft should be moved faster = than any other drafts that require sub-tlv allocation.

Regards
Lizhong


On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 2:04 AM, Loa Andersson &= lt;loa@pi.nu> = wrote:

Dan, Xu, Lizhong and Rajiv,

You have been selected as an MPLS Review team reviewers for
draft-pac-mpls-lsp-ping-tlvs-and-sub-tlvs-registry-00.

Note to authors: You have been CC'd on this email so that you can know<= br> that this review is going on. However, please do not review your own
document.

Reviews should comment on whether the document is coherent, is it
useful (ie, is it likely to be actually useful in operational
networks), and is the document technically sound? =A0We are interested
in knowing whether the document is ready to be considered for WG
adoption (ie, it doesn't have to be perfect at this point, but should b= e
a good start).

Reviews should be sent to the document authors, WG co-chairs and
WG secretary, and CC'd to the MPLS WG email list. If necessary, comment= s
may be sent privately to only the WG chairs.

Are you able to review this draft by April 2, 2013?

Thanks, Loa
(as MPLS WG chair)

/Loa
--


Loa Andersson =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0email: loa@mail01.huawei.com
Senior MPLS Expert =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0loa@pi.nu
Huawei Technologies (consult) =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0phone: +46 739 81 21 = 64

--002354471764df6bb104d8fd0069-- From curtis@occnc.com Thu Mar 28 13:35:31 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F202121F8910 for ; Thu, 28 Mar 2013 13:35:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.12 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.12 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.375, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jqdiG7HkyzmV for ; Thu, 28 Mar 2013 13:35:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gateway1.orleans.occnc.com (unknown [173.9.106.132]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63C0621F890D for ; Thu, 28 Mar 2013 13:35:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from harbor1.ipv6.occnc.com (harbor1.ipv6.occnc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1545::2:819]) (authenticated bits=0) by gateway1.orleans.occnc.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r2SKWVoG061570; Thu, 28 Mar 2013 16:32:31 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from curtis@occnc.com) Message-Id: <201303282032.r2SKWVoG061570@gateway1.orleans.occnc.com> To: Gregory Mirsky From: Curtis Villamizar In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 27 Mar 2013 22:53:03 -0000." <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF112075613@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2013 16:32:31 -0400 Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" , "draft-villamizar-mpls-forwarding@tools.ietf.org" , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-villamizar-mpls-forwarding X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: curtis@occnc.com List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2013 20:35:32 -0000 In message <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF112075613@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> Gregory Mirsky writes: > Hi Curtis, > > back to our discussion on 1588overMPLS. I've attached slide from deck > presented at TICTOC meeting in Orlando as illustration of what I mean > by "PTP distribution through MPLS network". > > PTP/NTP Transport over MPLS network can be done without any special > PTP LSP (another slide from the same deck) > > > Regards, > Greg Greg, Perhaps I am missing your point. Unless the point it to marvel over the artwork in the otherwise not very informative slides. There are two encapsulations shown: LSP LSP IP PW UDP CW PTP Ethernet PTP This just makes it a little hard for the midpoint LSR to do the PTP correction field update, but otherwise ... so what. If the LSP midpoint nodes make no corrections, then accuracy suffers. The midpoint LSR must either: 1) know that the payload is IP or know that the payload is PW (it doens't today), or guess based on CW or lack of, and 2) know that the packet might contain PTP, and 3) look at every packet in the LSP. I mentioned in the draft that a timestamp has to be captured when a packet is received and generated and inserted when a packet is sent. I also mentioned that the offset is variable. For example in the PW case, the Ethernet header could have a VLAN ID. The PTP forwarding correction requires updating a timestamp compensation field based on the difference between packet arrival and packet send times. Perhaps what you are saying is that we don't call out the need to support that difference plus offset (offset by the existing compensation). Of course, the offset and receive stamp can be added together in software or in less critically time constrained hardware, with the send stamp subtracted as close to packet transmit time as possible. If that is not what you meant, then what exactly is your point? Curtis From jsw@inconcepts.biz Thu Mar 28 15:08:43 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3DB321F8F05 for ; Thu, 28 Mar 2013 15:08:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.479 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.479 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id B+X-6h8tL8pf for ; Thu, 28 Mar 2013 15:08:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ie0-x22c.google.com (mail-ie0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c03::22c]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E53F21F8EFD for ; Thu, 28 Mar 2013 15:08:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ie0-f172.google.com with SMTP id c10so16695ieb.17 for ; Thu, 28 Mar 2013 15:08:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-received:x-originating-ip:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=FYAQ+YdayrWnf3GsTc6o9xLnXtqBak6JK3arH3glGEA=; b=gMK0FuVSKSd21P+LB93LwPlOUhMhGWXskairhcUfZgHTWyHIjhbjVbsT5bLRUdQliW fY4u/dTN/0i19+wyR69RiOR38XiFoLluP1i312gJoGuHloqQFXRuXCu5jrdzh43gz2V0 dIZetvJIyFLKMaEfiuccAy9Jmcx115yliUqpobUsMBUG6VSOWfEytDSE0bL1wl3ubVu/ IGuyjlZxNYePrhM0jg+zkcLnGX/lHDO9qlsCoNps8ryhq601UqcYiFaFknzTF3ZvqOmJ WqqiUpc5JdysEZjGDIAEqUsTLFylYGEx3qUCC5EjjeMCeqUDsRdCURzVwp/VAdNEtgF2 G0dg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.173.6 with SMTP id bg6mr120363igc.102.1364508519475; Thu, 28 Mar 2013 15:08:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.50.182.230 with HTTP; Thu, 28 Mar 2013 15:08:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Originating-IP: [74.134.22.105] In-Reply-To: <201303281411.r2SEBHJk058442@gateway1.orleans.occnc.com> References: <201303281411.r2SEBHJk058442@gateway1.orleans.occnc.com> Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2013 18:08:39 -0400 Message-ID: From: Jeff Wheeler To: curtis@occnc.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnk+HsdTChJbhgfiuZaR2XuEt7QmpsSgiFX+PBjKo76lE9VVugI5UBQOT60t55rzwtHtbjj Cc: MPLS Subject: Re: [mpls] comments on draft-kompella-mpls-special-purpose-labels-02 X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2013 22:08:43 -0000 On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 10:11 AM, Curtis Villamizar wrote: > If something like GAL is proposed, then an upgraded LSR could > potentially send a special purpose label to an older LSR that is using > that label as a forwarding label. I don't agree. An SP label shouldn't end up at top-of-stack unless the receiving LSR has signalled support for that extension. The problem is not top-of-stack issues, but middle-of-stack. If PE2 is legacy and assigns label 17 for an application label, but P1, P2, etc. are aware that is a new SP label that has some defined purpose, they may take action on that packet based on the specification of SP 17. All that needs to happen here is 0..15 be replaced with 0..N and enough time to pass before the 0..15 space is exhausted that you can reasonably expect all PEs in a network to receive software upgrades before any features are specified and deployed to P nodes using SP values > 15. This is a very reasonable expectation given the likely huge lead-time before any such extended SP labels are required to be allocated (if ever.) The question is, which of these is more likely: 1) networks depend on PE that can't receive this software upgrade in many years time; or 2) networks depend on P that can't gain hardware ability to process deeper label stack in many years time In both cases, the time-frame is years; but #2 is where hardware limitations on label stack depth arise. Folks in this WG have argued that hardware limits are an issue for changing 0..15 to 0..N and there is no evidence of that. There is a large body of evidence that many routers have degraded or unspecified behavior once label stack grows beyond a certain depth, and these routers continue to be sold into customer networks today. I do not expect that will change, or grow by 2 labels, because of this draft. Do you? Quite simply, to have extended SP labels based on my suggestion, all a customer must do is request his vendor produce software updates to not use 16..N as forwarding labels. To have them based on this draft, he may need to replace all of his hardware. I think we can all agree that software updates are more realistic. -- Jeff S Wheeler Sr Network Operator / Innovative Network Concepts From dave.mcdysan@verizon.com Fri Mar 29 05:12:59 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF33621F8F25 for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2013 05:12:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.034 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.034 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_40=-0.185, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, TVD_SPACE_RATIO=2.219] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ManK0ofHSuP6 for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2013 05:12:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fldsmtpe02.verizon.com (fldsmtpe02.verizon.com [140.108.26.141]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6AD0321F8F1E for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2013 05:12:59 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: false Received: from unknown (HELO fldsmtpi01.verizon.com) ([166.68.71.143]) by fldsmtpe02.verizon.com with ESMTP; 29 Mar 2013 12:12:58 +0000 From: "Mcdysan, David E" X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.87,373,1363132800"; d="scan'208";a="450694957" Received: from fhdp1lumxc7hb05.verizon.com (HELO FHDP1LUMXC7HB05.us.one.verizon.com) ([166.68.59.192]) by fldsmtpi01.verizon.com with ESMTP; 29 Mar 2013 12:12:58 +0000 Received: from fhdp1lumxc7v11.us.one.verizon.com ([166.68.59.148]) by FHDP1LUMXC7HB05.us.one.verizon.com ([166.68.59.192]) with mapi; Fri, 29 Mar 2013 08:12:41 -0400 To: MPLS Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2013 08:12:53 -0400 Thread-Topic: Test Thread-Index: Ac4sdrXcAvlteB47R+6gdF6GtgQeCQ== Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.2.5.121010 acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: [mpls] Test X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2013 12:13:00 -0000 Please ignore. From eosborne@cisco.com Fri Mar 29 06:03:53 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E593421F9406 for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2013 06:03:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-10.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8, URIBL_SBL=20] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NyI0cD3RB6rM for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2013 06:03:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-8.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-8.cisco.com [173.37.86.79]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B1C921F9415 for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2013 06:03:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=1236; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1364562229; x=1365771829; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id: content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=T5Z/V0RhQEEvtx3yPmG7rCd+vGS/IhU3XKbCG2gd2wc=; b=EwmAKVeT34f8cAn8Kthyq3AgwSR8q4rh3/Y0ibx2RBiv6bkN5ok/vAQz ovpnbN8U8Nh8CTDNRxq2cLx1UL4Ci13QMLDrmaAhdRt7lM/SzZCldnCfU X4ztKZU04QHKvQ8cplQPEhX8sbwTIdBGrQ/fiaRRA1jURzU4m8PVKM29N s=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgEFAIyQVVGtJV2a/2dsb2JhbABDgzq/IoEIFnSCIQEEHR0uERIBKhRCJgEEDg0MiAAMv22OZzGCZmEDp3CDC4Io X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.87,373,1363132800"; d="scan'208";a="192899161" Received: from rcdn-core-3.cisco.com ([173.37.93.154]) by rcdn-iport-8.cisco.com with ESMTP; 29 Mar 2013 13:03:43 +0000 Received: from xhc-rcd-x02.cisco.com (xhc-rcd-x02.cisco.com [173.37.183.76]) by rcdn-core-3.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r2TD3hGS032721 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Mar 2013 13:03:43 GMT Received: from xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com ([169.254.9.206]) by xhc-rcd-x02.cisco.com ([173.37.183.76]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.004; Fri, 29 Mar 2013 08:03:43 -0500 From: "Eric Osborne (eosborne)" To: "mpls@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: MPLS 2013 Call for Papers Thread-Index: Ac4sfaMCDTQPCE/kRxyaVFayxvdiMg== Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2013 13:03:42 +0000 Message-ID: <20ECF67871905846A80F77F8F4A275721011C890@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.98.66.75] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: [mpls] MPLS 2013 Call for Papers X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2013 13:03:53 -0000 Forwarding to the list on Dave's behalf as there seems to be some sort of t= ransmission problem. Please see the URL below or reply to Dave, not me. eric ----- The MPLS 2013 International Conference, the 16th Annual International Confe= rence on MPLS and Related Technologies, will be held November 17-20, in Was= hington, DC. The Technical Program Committee is soliciting abstracts summar= izing a proposed presentation representing original/unpublished work coveri= ng cutting-edge topics in MPLS, SDN and Virtualization. Presentations covering new technologies and operational experience are soli= cited from network equipment vendors, service/transport providers, governme= nt agencies, the research community, and enterprise users. The deadline for submission of presentation proposals is April 29, 2013. If you want further information on MPLS 2013 or want to submit a presentati= on abstract, please see the following URL: http://www.isocore.com/mpls2013/call_for_papers/cfp.htm Many of these topics have been of interest to members of the IETF MPLS work= ing in the past, and many people active on this list have been presenters a= t past events. Regards, =20 Dave Mcdysan ----- From alessandro.dalessandro@telecomitalia.it Fri Mar 29 06:17:21 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B16F521F9407 for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2013 06:17:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.14 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.14 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_20=-0.74, HELO_EQ_IT=0.635, HOST_EQ_IT=1.245, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rJObeskAwCPd for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2013 06:17:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from GRFEDG701RM001.telecomitalia.it (grfedg701rm001.telecomitalia.it [217.169.121.20]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D22D721F9406 for ; Fri, 29 Mar 2013 06:17:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from TELCAH001RM001.telecomitalia.local (10.19.10.102) by GRFEDG701RM001.telecomitalia.it (10.173.88.20) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.3.297.1; Fri, 29 Mar 2013 14:17:14 +0100 Received: from TELMBA002RM001.telecomitalia.local ([169.254.1.71]) by TELCAH001RM001.telecomitalia.local ([10.19.10.102]) with mapi id 14.02.0328.009; Fri, 29 Mar 2013 14:17:13 +0100 From: D'Alessandro Alessandro Gerardo To: "mpls@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Support of draft-ietf-mpls-tp-temporal-hitless-psm Thread-Index: AQHOLHphxjSWCGeqWUeF8UT59o1muZi8pg+Q Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2013 13:17:11 +0000 Message-ID: <22257C41A415324A984CD03D63344E270516DAF5@TELMBA002RM001.telecomitalia.local> References: <5141E7EC.3090901@pi.nu> <51558BFA.2010301@lab.ntt.co.jp> In-Reply-To: <51558BFA.2010301@lab.ntt.co.jp> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: it-IT X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.19.10.121] x-ti-disclaimer: Disclaimer1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: [mpls] R: Support of draft-ietf-mpls-tp-temporal-hitless-psm X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2013 13:17:21 -0000 Support ------------------------------------------------------------------ Telecom Italia Alessandro Gerardo D'Alessandro Transport Innovation Via Reiss Romoli, 274 - 10148 Torino phone: +39 011 228 5887 mobile: +39 335 766 9607 fax: +39 06 418 639 07 -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [mpls] working group last call on draft-ietf-mpls-tp-temporal-hitless-psm Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 16:08:28 +0100 From: Loa Andersson To: mpls@ietf.org CC: mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org , draft-ietf-mpls-tp-temporal-hitless-psm@tools.ietf.org Working Group, this is to start a two week Working Group last call on draft-ietf-mpls-tp-temporal-hitless-psm-02.txt. Please send your comments to the mpls working group mailing list (mpls@ietf.org). Please send both technical comments, and if you are happy with the document as is also indications of support. There are no IPR claims against this draft. The co-authors have earlier stated that they are not aware of any IPRs applicable to this draft. If anyone else in the working group are aware of IPRs claims against this draft, the time to disclose that is now. This working group last call will end on April 2, 2013. /Loa for the wg co-chairs -- Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu Huawei Technologies (consult) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 _______________________________________________ mpls mailing list mpls@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls Questo messaggio e i suoi allegati sono indirizzati esclusivamente alle per= sone indicate. La diffusione, copia o qualsiasi altra azione derivante dall= a conoscenza di queste informazioni sono rigorosamente vietate. Qualora abb= iate ricevuto questo documento per errore siete cortesemente pregati di dar= ne immediata comunicazione al mittente e di provvedere alla sua distruzione= , Grazie. This e-mail and any attachments is confidential and may contain privileged = information intended for the addressee(s) only. Dissemination, copying, pri= nting or use by anybody else is unauthorised. If you are not the intended r= ecipient, please delete this message and any attachments and advise the sen= der by return e-mail, Thanks. From scott.mansfield@ericsson.com Fri Mar 29 13:32:24 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3F2621F8202; Fri, 29 Mar 2013 13:32:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.001, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gGLSb3JYrncd; Fri, 29 Mar 2013 13:32:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usevmg20.ericsson.net (usevmg20.ericsson.net [198.24.6.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0EEB21F8525; Fri, 29 Mar 2013 13:32:11 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c618062d-b7f0d6d00000097e-8d-5155fa4ac6d4 Received: from EUSAAHC002.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [147.117.188.78]) by usevmg20.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 06.E9.02430.A4AF5515; Fri, 29 Mar 2013 21:32:11 +0100 (CET) Received: from EUSAAMB105.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.122]) by EUSAAHC002.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.78]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.004; Fri, 29 Mar 2013 16:32:09 -0400 From: Scott Mansfield To: "ietf@ietf.org" , "mpls@ietf.org" , "ccamp@ietf.org" , "pwe3@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Call for volunteers for IETF ITU-T Liaison Manager for MPLS Thread-Index: Ac4svHp9+w4IBaMtQneEjAgTuYt2gA== Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2013 20:32:08 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [147.117.188.135] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_EF35EE4B92789843B1DECBC0E24558641FB5B0eusaamb105ericsso_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFjrGLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyuXSPn673r9BAg+OHBSyezLnBYvFs43wW i1tLV7Ja9H3awuLA4rFkyU+mAMYoLpuU1JzMstQifbsErowtkwsKXqtVNBz+xt7AeFuxi5GT Q0LARGLTxHZmCFtM4sK99WxdjFwcQgJHGCWWbLnMBOEsZ5SY1bKJCaSKDahj667pjCC2iEAX o8ScV0YgtrCAi8TV7QdZIeKeEhPXPYSy9SRu3OsAs1kEVCXWfHkB1ssr4C0x7UcXC4jNCLT5 +6k1YPOZBcQlbj2ZzwRxkYDEkj3noa4TlXj5+B8rhK0s8X3OIxaI+nyJnffuM0PMFJQ4OfMJ ywRGoVlIRs1CUjYLSRlEXEdiwe5PbBC2tsSyha+ZYewzBx4zIYsvYGRfxchRWpxalptuZLCJ ERgXxyTYdHcw7nlpeYhRmoNFSZw3yPVCgJBAemJJanZqakFqUXxRaU5q8SFGJg5OqQZGpqys su0XRC7OXFWhFPONd2WMkKH1jpafj+Ifn786teW1lubCh7xvWvNntfjpi+5qeqXuEa37YGGp +pw3wUcXKs4Nz2SWY2KI0PwUlXp1pvvMiI+Jr5tm38yx90wLmj7J0PH59bXec7dIpRe+mXIo 8sS89ZyJk+omv2R9e6lFXzM1+bzA9BX1SizFGYmGWsxFxYkAoaWCa1kCAAA= Subject: [mpls] Call for volunteers for IETF ITU-T Liaison Manager for MPLS X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2013 20:32:24 -0000 --_000_EF35EE4B92789843B1DECBC0E24558641FB5B0eusaamb105ericsso_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The IAB will be appointing a liaison manager to ITU-T for MPLS within the n= ext few weeks. We are soliciting volunteers for this position. Nominations = (including self-nominations) for this position should be sent to: scott.man= sfield@ericsson.com no later than Sun= day April 14, 2013. The person filling the role of MPLS Liaison to the ITU-T needs to have fami= liarity with the IETF process and the MPLS, CCAMP, and PWE3 groups. The MP= LS Liaison manager also needs to understand the ITU-T process and procedure= s (including the traditional approval process, the alternative approval pro= cess, and the ITU-T governance structure). An understanding of the study gr= oups in the ITU-T that are working in areas that use or affect MPLS technol= ogies is beneficial. The IETF liaison process is defined in RFCs 4052, 4053= , and 4691. Regards, Scott Mansfield IETF - ITU-T Liaison Manager Scott Mansfield Ericsson Inc. 300 Holger Way San Jose, CA 95134 --_000_EF35EE4B92789843B1DECBC0E24558641FB5B0eusaamb105ericsso_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

 

The IAB will be appointing a liaison manager to I= TU-T for MPLS within the next few weeks. We are soliciting volunteers for t= his position. Nominations (including self-nominations) for this position sh= ould be sent to: scott.mansfield@ericsson.co= m  no later than Sunday April 14, 2013.

 

The person filling the role of MPLS Liaison to th= e ITU-T needs to have familiarity with the IETF process and the MPLS, CCAMP= , and PWE3 groups.  The MPLS Liaison manager also needs to understand = the ITU-T process and procedures (including the traditional approval process, the alternative approval process, and th= e ITU-T governance structure). An understanding of the study groups in the = ITU-T that are working in areas that use or affect MPLS technologies is ben= eficial. The IETF liaison process is defined in RFCs 4052, 4053, and 4691.

 

Regards,

Scott Mansfield

IETF - ITU-T Liaison Manager

 

Scott Mansfield

Ericsson Inc.

300 Holger Way

San Jose, CA 95134

--_000_EF35EE4B92789843B1DECBC0E24558641FB5B0eusaamb105ericsso_-- From curtis@occnc.com Sat Mar 30 13:38:31 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 210F521F85CB for ; Sat, 30 Mar 2013 13:38:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.214 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.214 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.281, BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PX4+idfDXJmf for ; Sat, 30 Mar 2013 13:38:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gateway1.orleans.occnc.com (unknown [173.9.106.132]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5867E21F85BD for ; Sat, 30 Mar 2013 13:38:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from harbor1.ipv6.occnc.com (harbor1.ipv6.occnc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1545::2:819]) (authenticated bits=0) by gateway1.orleans.occnc.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r2UKZbNP085509; Sat, 30 Mar 2013 16:35:37 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from curtis@occnc.com) Message-Id: <201303302035.r2UKZbNP085509@gateway1.orleans.occnc.com> To: curtis@occnc.com From: Curtis Villamizar In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 28 Mar 2013 16:32:31 EDT." <201303282032.r2SKWVoG061570@gateway1.orleans.occnc.com> Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2013 16:35:37 -0400 Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" , "draft-villamizar-mpls-forwarding@tools.ietf.org" , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-villamizar-mpls-forwarding X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: curtis@occnc.com List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2013 20:38:31 -0000 Greg, I've added the following (new text following "+" signs): PTP or NTP may be carried over MPLS . Generally NTP will be carried within IP with IP carried in MPLS . Both PTP and NTP benefit from accurate time stamping of incoming packets and the ability to insert accurate time stamps in outgoing packets. + PTP correction which occurs when forwarding requires updating a + timestamp compensation field based on the difference between packet + arrival at an LSR and packet transmit time at that same LSR. Does this address any remaining PTP issues? Curtis In message <201303282032.r2SKWVoG061570@gateway1.orleans.occnc.com> Curtis Villamizar writes: In message <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF112075613@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> Gregory Mirsky writes: > Hi Curtis, > > back to our discussion on 1588overMPLS. I've attached slide from deck > presented at TICTOC meeting in Orlando as illustration of what I mean > by "PTP distribution through MPLS network". > > PTP/NTP Transport over MPLS network can be done without any special > PTP LSP (another slide from the same deck) > > > Regards, > Greg Greg, Perhaps I am missing your point. Unless the point it to marvel over the artwork in the otherwise not very informative slides. There are two encapsulations shown: LSP LSP IP PW UDP CW PTP Ethernet PTP This just makes it a little hard for the midpoint LSR to do the PTP correction field update, but otherwise ... so what. If the LSP midpoint nodes make no corrections, then accuracy suffers. The midpoint LSR must either: 1) know that the payload is IP or know that the payload is PW (it doens't today), or guess based on CW or lack of, and 2) know that the packet might contain PTP, and 3) look at every packet in the LSP. I mentioned in the draft that a timestamp has to be captured when a packet is received and generated and inserted when a packet is sent. I also mentioned that the offset is variable. For example in the PW case, the Ethernet header could have a VLAN ID. The PTP forwarding correction requires updating a timestamp compensation field based on the difference between packet arrival and packet send times. Perhaps what you are saying is that we don't call out the need to support that difference plus offset (offset by the existing compensation). Of course, the offset and receive stamp can be added together in software or in less critically time constrained hardware, with the send stamp subtracted as close to packet transmit time as possible. If that is not what you meant, then what exactly is your point? Curtis From internet-drafts@ietf.org Sat Mar 30 19:41:11 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7BF121F8994; Sat, 30 Mar 2013 19:41:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.493 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.493 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.107, BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pc52432Psctn; Sat, 30 Mar 2013 19:41:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BF0421F894B; Sat, 30 Mar 2013 19:41:11 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 4.43 Message-ID: <20130331024111.23693.49865.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2013 19:41:11 -0700 Cc: mpls@ietf.org Subject: [mpls] I-D Action: draft-villamizar-mpls-forwarding-02.txt X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2013 02:41:11 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director= ies. This draft is a work item of the Multiprotocol Label Switching Working Gro= up of the IETF. Title : MPLS Forwarding Compliance and Performance Requirements Author(s) : Curtis Villamizar Kireeti Kompella Shane Amante Andrew Malis Carlos Pignataro Filename : draft-villamizar-mpls-forwarding-02.txt Pages : 50 Date : 2013-03-30 Abstract: This document provides guidelines for implementors regarding MPLS forwarding and a basis for evaluations of forwarding implementations. Guidelines cover many aspects of MPLS forwarding. Topics are highlighted where implementors might potentially overlook practical requirements which are unstated or underemphasized or are optional for conformance to RFCs. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-villamizar-mpls-forwarding There's also a htmlized version available at: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-villamizar-mpls-forwarding-02 A diff from the previous version is available at: http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-villamizar-mpls-forwarding-02 Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From wu.bo@zte.com.cn Sun Mar 31 19:26:27 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0303A21F86BC for ; Sun, 31 Mar 2013 19:26:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -90.147 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-90.147 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.001, CHARSET_FARAWAY_HEADER=3.2, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_BASE64_TEXT=1.753, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.803, SARE_SUB_ENC_GB2312=1.345, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cFEnFxV1Cums for ; Sun, 31 Mar 2013 19:26:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zte.com.cn (mx6.zte.com.cn [95.130.199.165]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 614B221F869C for ; Sun, 31 Mar 2013 19:26:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zte.com.cn (unknown [192.168.168.120]) by Websense Email Security Gateway with ESMTP id 91E14112BCA0 for ; Mon, 1 Apr 2013 10:25:59 +0800 (CST) Received: from mse01.zte.com.cn (unknown [10.30.3.20]) by Websense Email Security Gateway with ESMTPS id 2F701114C9CD for ; Mon, 1 Apr 2013 10:25:57 +0800 (CST) Received: (from root@localhost) by mse01.zte.com.cn id r312Pw6D039774 for ; Mon, 1 Apr 2013 10:25:58 +0800 (GMT-8) (envelope-from wu.bo@zte.com.cn) Message-Id: <201304010225.r312Pw6D039774@mse01.zte.com.cn> Received: from notes_smtp.zte.com.cn ([10.30.1.239]) by mse01.zte.com.cn with ESMTP id r2T2x8GS060948; Fri, 29 Mar 2013 10:59:08 +0800 (GMT-8) (envelope-from wu.bo@zte.com.cn) In-Reply-To: <513E1F2E.2010209@pi.nu> To: Loa Andersson MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 6.5.6 March 06, 2007 From: wu.bo@zte.com.cn Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2013 10:58:57 +0800 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on notes_smtp/zte_ltd(Release 8.5.3FP1 HF212|May 23, 2012) at 2013-03-29 10:58:47, Serialize complete at 2013-03-29 10:58:47 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_alternative 0010C05248257B3D_=" X-MAIL: mse01.zte.com.cn r312Pw6D039774 X-MSS: AUDITRELEASE@mse01.zte.com.cn Cc: mpls@ietf.org, "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , draft-lim-mpls-proxy-lsp-ping@tools.ietf.org Subject: [mpls] =?gb2312?b?tPC4tDogTVBMUy1SVCByZXZpZXcgb2YgZHJhZnQtbGlt?= =?gb2312?b?LW1wbHMtcHJveHktbHNwLXBpbmc=?= X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG 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YnI+DQpIdWF3ZWkgVGVjaG5vbG9naWVzIChjb25zdWx0KSAmbmJzcDsgJm5ic3A7ICZuYnNwOyAm bmJzcDtwaG9uZTogKzQ2IDczOQ0KODEgMjEgNjQ8YnI+DQo8L2ZvbnQ+PC90dD4NCjxicj4NCg== --=_alternative 0010C05248257B3D_=-- From aldrin.ietf@gmail.com Sun Mar 31 19:35:06 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BADEA21F87A4 for ; Sun, 31 Mar 2013 19:35:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.02 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.02 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_HOST_EQ_D_D_D_D=0.765, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396, RCVD_IN_PBL=0.905, RDNS_DYNAMIC=0.1, SARE_SUB_ENC_UTF8=0.152] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id y0yj8PBIkwko for ; Sun, 31 Mar 2013 19:35:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-da0-x230.google.com (mail-da0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c00::230]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC08D21F8786 for ; Sun, 31 Mar 2013 19:35:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-da0-f48.google.com with SMTP id p8so870350dan.21 for ; Sun, 31 Mar 2013 19:35:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:references:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:cc:x-mailer:from:subject:date :to; bh=Aw8m9En4dMUaWfHfhRyzl+vs7ioGHyGX6rg8E2Y/9dE=; b=WtG53yLQTT+zc57+S1bJSz3UE/9MXyKZTKDYtZwAJk1uMoJ8ADuFLpIKGur55IWep5 VtTTHuJ/x1XlUlDJtvHbdF/rX7vpZQKG5Xi/xaBy7bC8eRKuPwukvwiHSHynPlG6kE5U un09U+2ID3wAkCBN+kwOShMC1tcQvYw6+cUR1lpnI+dB0u069yCGOSz9VV63WGalm6h0 pF2HhhmTcftwum9R06Pe91a4V9Z3M2sjHe8Wmx20QxENFCh6qAJ8oJdJXiTS1m5ZlMs0 4TWcCHEYPfP5SJvIocl0PLezzHos3gAsHX6LLsSaCsonfJa3BlLOZstSlpox5uDo7ZXs JjRA== X-Received: by 10.68.0.41 with SMTP id 9mr16007943pbb.132.1364783705602; Sun, 31 Mar 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[166.137.182.203]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 1sm11854187pba.32.2013.03.31.19.35.02 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sun, 31 Mar 2013 19:35:04 -0700 (PDT) References: <201304010226.r312Q9qp040049@mse01.zte.com.cn> Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) In-Reply-To: <201304010226.r312Q9qp040049@mse01.zte.com.cn> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-B61D57A4-D075-4DC0-ABB5-EE0910C0CEA1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (10B329) From: Sam Aldrin Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2013 19:34:59 -0700 To: "wu.bo@zte.com.cn" Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , "draft-lim-mpls-proxy-lsp-ping@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiBNUExTLVJUIHJldmlldyBvZiBkcmFmdC1saW0t?= =?utf-8?q?mpls-proxy-lsp-ping?= X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2013 02:35:06 -0000 --Apple-Mail-B61D57A4-D075-4DC0-ABB5-EE0910C0CEA1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks for the review. It replaces remote lsp ping draft. Sam Sent from my iPhone On Mar 28, 2013, at 7:58 PM, wu.bo@zte.com.cn wrote: >=20 > Hi=EF=BC=8CLoa=20 >=20 > I have read through the draft and my comments is as follows.=20 >=20 > I think the draft is coherent and it is useful in P2MP MPLS development ca= se.=20 > Based on current RFC, the only tool that we can use is MPLS ping initiated= from root.=20 > This draft proposes a new MPLS ping which can be initiated from leaf. =20= > And document is technically sound.=20 >=20 > But I think this draft is a revised version of current wg draft -draft-iet= f-mpls-remote-lsp-ping-03.=20 >=20 > And this confuses me. Will the authors replace that remote-lsp-ping draft w= ith this one=EF=BC=9F=20 >=20 > wubo=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Loa Andersson =20 > 2013-03-12 02:15 >=20 > =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA > Mach Chen , wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com, wu.bo= @zte.com.cn, "david.i.allan@ericsson.com" , "mpl= s-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , Martin Vigoureux , draft-lim-mpls-proxy-lsp-ping@tools.ietf.= org > =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81 > =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98 > MPLS-RT review of draft-lim-mpls-proxy-lsp-ping >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Dave, Wu, Wim and Mach, >=20 > You have been selected as an MPLS Review team reviewers for > draft-lim-mpls-proxy-lsp-ping-01. >=20 > Note to authors: You have been CC'd on this email so that you can know > that this review is going on. However, please do not review your own > document. >=20 > Reviews should comment on whether the document is coherent, is it > useful (ie, is it likely to be actually useful in operational > networks), and is the document technically sound? We are interested > in knowing whether the document is ready to be considered for WG > adoption (ie, it doesn't have to be perfect at this point, but should be > a good start). >=20 > Reviews should be sent to the document authors, WG co-chairs and > WG secretary, and CC'd to the MPLS WG email list. If necessary, comments > may be sent privately to only the WG chairs. >=20 > Are you able to review this draft by April 2, 2013? >=20 > Thanks, Loa > (as MPLS WG chair) >=20 > /Loa > --=20 >=20 >=20 > Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com > Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu > Huawei Technologies (consult) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 >=20 --Apple-Mail-B61D57A4-D075-4DC0-ABB5-EE0910C0CEA1 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks for the review. It replaces rem= ote lsp ping draft.

Sam

Sent from my iPhone<= /div>

On Mar 28, 2013, at 7:58 PM, wu.bo@zte.com.cn wrote:


Hi=EF=BC=8CLoa

I have read through the draft and m= y comments is as follows.

I think the draft is coherent and i= t is useful in P2MP MPLS development case.
Based on current RFC, the only tool= that we can use is MPLS ping initiated from root.
This draft proposes a new MPLS ping= which can be initiated from leaf.  
And document is technically sound.

But I think this draft is a revised= version of current wg draft -draft-ietf-mpls-remote-lsp-ping-03.

And this confuses me. Will the auth= ors replace that remote-lsp-ping draft with this one=EF=BC=9F

wubo




Loa Andersson <= loa@pi.nu>

2013-03-12 02:15

=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6= =E4=BA=BA
Mach Chen <mach.chen@huawei.com>, wim.henderickx@alcatel-= lucent.com, wu.bo@zte.com.cn, "<= a href=3D"mailto:david.i.allan@ericsson.com">david.i.allan@ericsson.com"= <david.i.allan@ericsson.com= >, "mpls-chairs@tools.i= etf.org" <mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org= >, Martin Vigoureux <martin.vigoureux@alcatel-lucent.com>, draft-lim-mp= ls-proxy-lsp-ping@tools.ietf.org
=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81=
=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98=
MPLS-RT review of draft-lim-mp= ls-proxy-lsp-ping










Dave, Wu, Wim and Mach,

You have been selected as an MPLS Review team reviewers for
draft-lim-mpls-proxy-lsp-ping-01.

Note to authors: You have been CC'd on this email so that you can know
that this review is going on. However, please do not review your own
document.

Reviews should comment on whether the document is coherent, is it
useful (ie, is it likely to be actually useful in operational
networks), and is the document technically sound?  We are interested in knowing whether the document is ready to be considered for WG
adoption (ie, it doesn't have to be perfect at this point, but should be
= a good start).

Reviews should be sent to the document authors, WG co-chairs and
WG secretary, and CC'd to the MPLS WG email list. If necessary, comments
= may be sent privately to only the WG chairs.

Are you able to review this draft by April 2, 2013?

Thanks, Loa
(as MPLS WG chair)

/Loa
--


Loa Andersson                  =      email: loa@mail= 01.huawei.com
Senior MPLS Expert                          loa@pi.nu=
Huawei Technologies (consult)        phone: +46 739 81 21 64
= --Apple-Mail-B61D57A4-D075-4DC0-ABB5-EE0910C0CEA1-- From mach.chen@huawei.com Sun Mar 31 20:06:30 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A915121F863A for ; Sun, 31 Mar 2013 20:06:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id W-DhhMhJgmH9 for ; Sun, 31 Mar 2013 20:06:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAC0921F86F5 for ; Sun, 31 Mar 2013 20:06:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml204-edg.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.5-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id ARH24807; Mon, 01 Apr 2013 03:06:26 +0000 (GMT) Received: from LHREML406-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.243) by lhreml204-edg.china.huawei.com (172.18.7.223) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.323.7; Mon, 1 Apr 2013 04:06:17 +0100 Received: from SZXEML423-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.82.67.162) by lhreml406-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.243) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.323.7; Mon, 1 Apr 2013 04:06:21 +0100 Received: from szxeml558-mbs.china.huawei.com ([169.254.8.247]) by szxeml423-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.82.67.162]) with mapi id 14.01.0323.007; Mon, 1 Apr 2013 11:05:53 +0800 From: Mach Chen To: Loa Andersson , "mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , "draft-lim-mpls-proxy-lsp-ping@tools.ietf.org" Thread-Topic: MPLS-RT review of draft-lim-mpls-proxy-lsp-ping Thread-Index: AQHOHoRjbeM6VlGdl0+i45PQ6Q/xv5i+C+Cg Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2013 03:05:52 +0000 Message-ID: References: <513E1F2E.2010209@pi.nu> In-Reply-To: <513E1F2E.2010209@pi.nu> Accept-Language: en-US, zh-CN Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.96.176] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Cc: "mpls@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [mpls] MPLS-RT review of draft-lim-mpls-proxy-lsp-ping X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2013 03:06:30 -0000 Hi,=20 I have done my MPLS-RT review of draft-lim-mpls-proxy-lsp-ping. I think the draft is useful and could be considered for WG adoption.=20 Here are some comments about the draft: 1. In the draft, "Objects" and "sub-objects" are widely used to identify th= e LSP Ping parameters, this does not align with the convention of the LSP P= ing related terminologies (where it uses TLVs or sub-TLVs). So, it's better= to change the related terminologies back to TLVs or sub-TLVs.=20 2. There are many acronyms that need to be expanded on their first use.=20 3. Section 5.1. Proxy Echo Parameters Object Address Family Type Length IPv4 1 4 IPv6 3 16=20 What's the type 2 reserved for? 4. Section 5.4. Downstream Neighbor Address Object=20 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ |Dnst Addr Type |Local Addr Type| MUST be Zero | +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ It defines both destination and Local address types, does it mean that the = destination and local address types may be different? Can you please clarif= y how this will happen? In addition, section 5.3 has the similar situation.= =20 5. Section 5.1.1 " Types 5 and 6 are intended to be populated from the local address information obtained from a previously returned Previous Hop Address Object." Where is the "Previous Hop Address Object" defined? A reference may need he= re. In addition, for the "Next Hop Interface", how does the ingress get the "Ne= xt Hop Interface"? 6. Section 5.2 Reply-to Address Object " Used to specify the MPLS echo request IP source address. This address must be IP reachable via the Proxy LSR otherwise it will be rejected."=20 Is the "must be IP reachable via the Proxy LSR" for security reason? 7. Section 5.1. Proxy Echo Parameters Object It defines a Destination IP Address field, according to the description in = Section 3.1=20 "The Destination IP Address is set to the value to be used in the MPLS echo request packet. If the Address Type is IPv4, an address is from the range 127/8. If the Address Type is IPv6, an address is from the range ::FFFF:7F00:0/104." Seems that the " Destination IP Address" is bit redundant here, the proxy L= SR can infer the Destination IP Address from the Address type.=20 8. This draft mainly discusses LSP Ping using IP encapsulation, is there pl= an to support proxy LSP Ping using non-IP encapsulation?=20 9. The defines Proxy LSP Request and Proxy LSP Reply messages and their rel= ated processing, from the current draft, it borrows/reuses the return code = and sub return code, is this the intention? Or you may need to define the d= edicated error code for the messages. For example " Malformed Proxy Ping re= quest received" other than " Malformed echo request received". Best regards, Mach > -----Original Message----- > From: Loa Andersson [mailto:loa@pi.nu] > Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 2:15 AM > To: Mach Chen; wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com; wu.bo@zte.com.cn; > david.i.allan@ericsson.com; mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; Martin Vigoureux; > draft-lim-mpls-proxy-lsp-ping@tools.ietf.org > Subject: MPLS-RT review of draft-lim-mpls-proxy-lsp-ping >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Dave, Wu, Wim and Mach, >=20 > You have been selected as an MPLS Review team reviewers for > draft-lim-mpls-proxy-lsp-ping-01. >=20 > Note to authors: You have been CC'd on this email so that you can know > that this review is going on. However, please do not review your own > document. >=20 > Reviews should comment on whether the document is coherent, is it > useful (ie, is it likely to be actually useful in operational > networks), and is the document technically sound? We are interested > in knowing whether the document is ready to be considered for WG > adoption (ie, it doesn't have to be perfect at this point, but should be > a good start). >=20 > Reviews should be sent to the document authors, WG co-chairs and > WG secretary, and CC'd to the MPLS WG email list. If necessary, comments > may be sent privately to only the WG chairs. >=20 > Are you able to review this draft by April 2, 2013? >=20 > Thanks, Loa > (as MPLS WG chair) >=20 > /Loa > -- >=20 >=20 > Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com > Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu > Huawei Technologies (consult) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 From satoshi.ueno@ntt.com Sun Mar 31 21:11:38 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFE9E21F8576 for ; Sun, 31 Mar 2013 21:11:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ez43pUAzS8c8 for ; Sun, 31 Mar 2013 21:11:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mgw010.noc.ntt.com (mgw010.noc.ntt.com [210.160.55.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55B7B21F8536 for ; Sun, 31 Mar 2013 21:11:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from c0042i0.coe.ntt.com (unknown [10.18.161.11]) by mgw010.noc.ntt.com (NTT Com MailSV) with ESMTP id 315F257A0194 for ; Mon, 1 Apr 2013 13:11:37 +0900 (JST) Received: from C0036I0.coe.ntt.com (10.18.160.40) by c0042i0.coe.ntt.com (10.18.161.11) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.438.0; Mon, 1 Apr 2013 13:11:36 +0900 Received: from C0008I0.coe.ntt.com ([169.254.2.116]) by C0036I0.coe.ntt.com ([10.18.160.40]) with mapi id 14.01.0438.000; Mon, 1 Apr 2013 13:11:36 +0900 From: Satoshi Ueno To: "mpls@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: working group last call on draft-ietf-mpls-tp-temporal-hitless-psm Thread-Index: AQHOIMXTtsMF7aWWlkaN7sGOjzcRqJjA3AvA Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2013 04:11:35 +0000 Message-ID: <737C61BA4FC0A94AA5FD41446EA31A3C3CF696@C0008I0.coe.ntt.com> References: <5141E7EC.3090901@pi.nu> In-Reply-To: <5141E7EC.3090901@pi.nu> Accept-Language: ja-JP, en-US Content-Language: ja-JP X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ccmail-original-to: mpls@ietf.org x-originating-ip: [10.25.9.149] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-2022-jp" MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [mpls] working group last call on draft-ietf-mpls-tp-temporal-hitless-psm X-BeenThere: mpls@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Multi-Protocol Label Switching WG List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2013 04:11:39 -0000 Yes, support. Best Regards, Satoshi > -----Original Message----- > From: Loa Andersson [mailto:loa@pi.nu] > Sent: Friday, March 15, 2013 12:08 AM > To: mpls@ietf.org > Cc: mpls-chairs@tools.ietf.org; > draft-ietf-mpls-tp-temporal-hitless-psm@tools.ietf.org; Martin > Vigoureux > Subject: working group last call on > draft-ietf-mpls-tp-temporal-hitless-psm > > Working Group, > > this is to start a two week Working Group last call on > draft-ietf-mpls-tp-temporal-hitless-psm-02.txt. > > Please send your comments to the mpls working group mailing list > (mpls@ietf.org). > > Please send both technical comments, and if you are happy with the document > as is also indications of support. > > There are no IPR claims against this draft. > > The co-authors have earlier stated that they are not aware of any IPRs > applicable to this draft. > > If anyone else in the working group are aware of IPRs claims against this > draft, the time to disclose that is now. > > This working group last call will end on April 2, 2013. > > /Loa > for the wg co-chairs > -- > > > Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com > Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu > Huawei Technologies (consult) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 From dhany19@gmail.com Sun Mar 31 22:28:59 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: mpls@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 404C521F863A for ; Sun, 31 Mar 2013 22:28:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.558 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.558 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_05=-1.11, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_15=0.6, RCVD_NUMERIC_HELO=2.067] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2N6w+cRuMKVQ for ; Sun, 31 Mar 2013 22:28:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pd0-f171.google.com (mail-pd0-f171.google.com [209.85.192.171]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) 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